# VIA Starting Seat Assignments for Corridor Trains



## PRR 60 (Feb 15, 2014)

From VIA Rail Canada:



> *Seat Assignment in Economy class for all!*
> 
> For your convenience, seat assignment will be available on board all trains of the Québec City – Windsor corridor as of March 29, 2014.


VIA Rail Canada


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 15, 2014)

According to VIA...



> What are the benefits of having seat assignment on all trains ?
> 
> Speeds up the boarding process.
> 
> ...


I hope Amtrak is listening, and not just writing off the whole country because some New Yorkers refused to abide by the rules.


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## jis (Feb 15, 2014)

I am waiting for the 15 reasons for not doing something like this to pour forth from Amtrak and its fanbois. 

The problem in the NEC was that it was introduced with zero warning or training for anyone involved. A typical Barb operation. And then when the whole thing fell apart, instead of laying the balme where it was due, at the doorstep of an incompetent manager, the whole concept was blamed to save a whole line of a$$es and that was the end of it.


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## SarahZ (Feb 15, 2014)

jis said:


> I am waiting for the 15 reasons for not doing something like this to pour forth from Amtrak and its *fanbois*.




I think this is a great idea, and I wish Amtrak could figure out a way to get it together.

I'm not sure how some of the routes would be handled, though, as the car you're in often depends on your destination, depending on the route. Perhaps the site could recognize, say, ABQ or KCY or whatever, and load coach car #blahblah so you can pick seats in that car (like when the little airplane comes up and lets you pick from available seats - it would just be that particular car, not the whole train).

Does that make any sense? Please don't make me humiliate myself with MS Paint.


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## AlanB (Feb 15, 2014)

jis said:


> The problem in the NEC was that it was introduced with zero warning or training for anyone involved. A typical Barb operation.


Agreed!

But just for clarity's sake, it was only introduced in Acela FC; not the entire NEC.



jis said:


> And then when the whole thing fell apart, instead of laying the balme where it was due, at the doorstep of an incompetent manager, the whole concept was blamed to save a whole line of a$$es and that was the end of it.


Well to be fair, part of the reason it also fell apart is because some of the other underlying/associated reasons also failed. Assigned seats were tied to the eTicket system being developed at that time; coupled with the LED seat check system. When eTicketing failed, and took LED seat checks with it, it removed one of the bigger reasons that they were considering assigned seats.

Further, from a customer standpoint I think that one thing that made passengers more rebellious was the fact that FC went from seats that all faced forward to a mix of forward/rearward facing seats as well as seats around fixed tables. Had Acela FC maintained the Metroliner seating plan as it were (not considering galley location) I think that the push back from passengers would have been less. Even had Amtrak done a much better job with warning customers, and again there was NO warning a huge failure, I think it would still have been a tough uphill battle.

In fact, with BC have only a few tables and almost all seats facing forward, at least in that regard it might have been smarter to have introduced assigned seating there first instead of in FC. Yes, the idea with FC was that it was a smaller customer base and easier to deal with system failures. But the extra variables of tables & rearward facing seats in FC was a big factor.


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## AlanB (Feb 15, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> I'm not sure how some of the routes would be handled, though, as the car you're in often depends on your destination, depending on the route. Perhaps the site could recognize, say, ABQ or KCY or whatever, and load coach car #blahblah so you can pick seats in that car (like when the little airplane comes up and lets you pick from available seats - it would just be that particular car, not the whole train).
> 
> Does that make any sense? Please don't make me humiliate myself with MS Paint.


Actually that's rather easy to do Sarah. When they did it with Acela FC, you got one of those little airline like pictures and you could see each seat and its status. You simply clicked on the empty seat you wanted. So with regard to the LD's, Amtrak would simply have to tell the system which car(s) to use for what destinations, and in which direction to overflow.

And speaking of picking your seat, that was part of the problem/failure for it in Acela FC. If you didn't notice that you could pick your seat and therefore didn't, you were still assigned a seat. For many business people, they don't make the reservation, their corporate travel agent or office does it. So these people arrived at the station and were surprised to find out that they had an assigned seat. And too often, one that faced backwards or was at a table that they didn't want to sit at.


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## SarahZ (Feb 15, 2014)

Interesting.  I really hope they can implement that, then, and maybe figure out a way to help the business travelers who arrange their travel through a corporate dept. Our travel dept lets us choose aisle or window on a flight and then sends us a confirmation with our seat number so we can call and have it switched to a different row/side if need be, but I understand every company is different.


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## railiner (Feb 15, 2014)

There are still the "pro's and con's" of assigned seating, which has been discussed here extensively. But one new twist could be the ability for Amtrak to follow the airline model, and charge more for the more popular seats locations.....

As they say...be careful what you wish for.....


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## SarahZ (Feb 15, 2014)

railiner said:


> There are still the "pro's and con's" of assigned seating, which has been discussed here extensively. But one new twist could be the ability for Amtrak to follow the airline model, and charge more for the more popular seats locations.....
> 
> As they say...be careful what you wish for.....


True. The bulkhead seats might go for a pretty penny. Although, I don't care for those seats since they don't have a tray or seatback pouch.

I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons:

1) Couples/friends

2) Families

3) Tour groups

4) People who require two seats due to size (as June has pointed out in other threads, being disabled ensures two seats together if needed, but obesity is not considered a disability)

5) Single travelers who don't like sleeping next to a stranger but can't afford a roomette

6) People who prefer window/aisle, for whatever reason

7) Boarding would be easier/faster, as everyone could just head to their seat instead of wandering all over trying to find something. In the case of LD trains, it would save the attendant having to assign seats after the kindergarten stampede out to the coaches. That would enable them to spend more time helping with bags and such.


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## CHamilton (Feb 15, 2014)

Amtrak Cascades has had assigned seating for several years. While it is not perfect, I think it works well. Add the seat check printers being used on the Surfliners, and I think it would benefit everyone.


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## Anderson (Feb 15, 2014)

At present, the biggest issue I see is potential boarding/booking issues with shorter-platform stations. It also has room to complicate tickets for one train being honored on another train (like happened to me when the Adirondack was late once) or to "block out" some booking options on crowded trains. To offer an example, let us assume the system generates the following booking for a three-seat train:

A---B---C---D---E---F
1 R-------D R---D
2 R-----------D
3 R-----------DNow, if another customer comes in and wishes to book from A-F, he's going to be told "Sorry, train is sold out" since there is no seat empty for the whole run. Yet there's at least one seat vacant at all times, and he could be sold a ticket if the E-F customer in seat 1 was moved to 2 and the customer in seat 3 was moved to seat 1. Yet due to booking order and so forth, this is entirely plausible (since you could easily have had a previous customer somewhere in the C-F section who prevented a more efficient arrangement but cancelled).
This isn't to say the system is impossible, or indeed even a bad idea, but you _will_ get cases like this.


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## SarahZ (Feb 15, 2014)

It reminds me of roomettes. Sometimes, if I plug in CHI to ABQ, it will say they're sold out, but when I start playing with city pairs, I find that there's one open from CHI to KCY and then another open from KCY to ABQ.

I only know that trick because of this forum, though. I wonder if the average person thinks to do that. I'm sure the phone agents can and do, but I'm thinking about the people who book online.


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## AlanB (Feb 15, 2014)

Sarah,

There have even been cases where Amtrak.com will show 1 room left, until you go to actually try to book it. The system sees that it has 1 room from CHI to KCY and another from KCY to ABQ and considers that to be one room the whole way. But when one actually tries to book it, it fails because it isn't 1 room the whole way. And even an agent will get an error telling them that they cannot pull that room; because again it's not the same room the entire way.

Now if you have a smart agent, or you know the drill, then they will tell you that if you are willing to change rooms during the trip that they can book you for that trip. I did that once on the Empire Builder, switching room at Whitefish so as to be able to make my trip. But I had to figure out what the problem was first and then warn the AGR agent, since it was an award trip, about what to do.


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## railiner (Feb 16, 2014)

So that opens up another can of worms......would they reassign people already booked to accommodate newcomers? Some folks would be very upset if the seat they had selected was switched to another that they possibly wouldn't like, in order to accommodate a latecomer....

And if not, how many agents would go thru the trouble to 'build' an accommodation using various seats in various segments, and then manually price it to the thru fare.....and if they did, how time-consuming would it all be.... :unsure:


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 16, 2014)

AlanB said:


> There have even been cases where Amtrak.com will show 1 room left, until you go to actually try to book it. The system sees that it has 1 room from CHI to KCY and another from KCY to ABQ and considers that to be one room the whole way. But when one actually tries to book it, it fails because it isn't 1 room the whole way. And even an agent will get an error telling them that they cannot pull that room; because again it's not the same room the entire way.


Something similar happened to me when I was booking my Toronto to Vancouver trip for last December.

I had started the reservation process on-line and it showed a Cabin of Two was available but in the next step I got a message saying a change of accommodations would be required enroute and to call the 800 number to complete the reservation. Guess they wanted you to be well aware where you might have to change: Saskatoon at midnight….Ugh!.... or: Jasper in the afternoon which would have been fine.

At the time, I was looking at alternate dates too and just went ahead with that.


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## jis (Feb 16, 2014)

railiner said:


> So that opens up another can of worms......would they reassign people already booked to accommodate newcomers? Some folks would be very upset if the seat they had selected was switched to another that they possibly wouldn't like, in order to accommodate a latecomer....
> 
> And if not, how many agents would go thru the trouble to 'build' an accommodation using various seats in various segments, and then manually price it to the thru fare.....and if they did, how time-consuming would it all be.... :unsure:


In more advanced countries (couldn't help but put in that dig  ) where assigned seat reservations are common practice, typically they do not change an assignment that has already been made. However, it is very common for the travelers to make voluntary mutual accommodations once they are on board the train, and the train staff just notes the mutual swaps that have been made by passengers voluntarily and life goes on. It should also be noted that such mutual voluntary accommodation is not at all uncommon on planes even in the US.


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## railiner (Feb 16, 2014)

Well yes....I can see that a reasonable person would give up their pre-assigned seat to accommodate families that were separated account late booking.....

But on the other hand, if someone had selected a coveted seat, way in advance, sometimes picking alternate dates just to get that seat, they would tend to

be reluctant to give it up for an "undesirable" seat, that especially on a transcontinental trip, would detract from their experience....


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## jis (Feb 16, 2014)

railiner said:


> Well yes....I can see that a reasonable person would give up their pre-assigned seat to accommodate families that were separated account late booking.....
> 
> But on the other hand, if someone had selected a coveted seat, way in advance, sometimes picking alternate dates just to get that seat, they would tend to
> 
> be reluctant to give it up for an "undesirable" seat, that especially on a transcontinental trip, would detract from their experience....


Of course. There have been cases where I have refused to give up my bulkhead window seat unless the other seat was equivalent, and that remains the right of any passenger.
There have also been cases where I have had to vacate a bulkhead seat anyway because of the necessity to accommodate a handicapped person who could not be seated anywhere else due to physical limitations.

There are no guarantees in life including sitting together in a group on a plane or train, or even getting a seat at all for that matter.

Why is that reality so hard to deal with for some poeple is what I don't understand.

I think the whole thing is a big red herring and at the end of the day a minor matter and not something that ought to stop assigning reserved seats.


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## SarahZ (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm with Jis on all points. It's really not a huge concern for me.


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 16, 2014)

I would switch to keep families with children together......but certainly not in this situation (on a flight):

YOW-YHZ on an Air Canada E-190 with 2+2 seating.

I had 28A. A couple are sitting in 28C & D. Next to each other but separated by the aisle. As I approach the husband asks if I would switch with his wife. I explain that I had pre-selected my seat, paying an additional $15 to get the window seat I wanted. His reply “some people are just so considerate” Wife’s reply “No, some people are just too cheap......I told you to select our seats”

Poor Buddy! I didn’t speak with him on the flight......she didn’t either!


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## jis (Feb 16, 2014)

If I had paid extra for a seat and was then forced to switch by the airline I'd expect a refund of the seat fee. naturally I would not switch voluntarily except to an equivalent seat. I must admit I have not faced that sort of a situation yet, since mys tatus gives me free access to premium seats in the Y cabin.

OTOH, I have been requested to switch from a bulkhead window seat far from the madding crowd in Business First to the middle of the cabin, and I have always refused. Unlike self-important power hungry Amtrak crew, airline cabin crew are quite respectful of seat assignments and do not insert themselves in the process unless there is a safety or a handicapped kind of situation involved.

There is a reason that I will never travel by LD Coach on Amtrak again, after having been tossed around a few times too many regarding seats, as a single traveler. I would rather fly in an assigned seat. When Amtrak actually starts assigning seats at the time of booking I will consider it again.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 26, 2014)

The seat assignment thing is why I only travel in sleepers on overnight trips. I resent getting to the station early and lining up early only to be told by an Amtrak employees that I have to take an aisle seat with plenty if window seats available. I would pa a fee for an assigned seat that I could pre select. And in I would not move for a family. Being part of a larger group does not excuse one from

Planning ahead.


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