# San Diego to Tijuana trolley plans



## CHamilton (Apr 14, 2014)

Despite the headline, it sounds like there aren't any definite plans yet.

San Diego and Tijuana plan cross-border LRT



> MUNICIPAL authorities in San Diego, California, and the neighbouring city of Tijuana in the Mexican state of Baja California have revived plans for a light rail line spanning the US-Mexican border.
> 
> San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce president Mr Jerry Sanders told local media: "That's one of our top priorities. It's very complex, obviously, when you have two governments, two state governments, two city governments, and MTS [Metropolitan Transit System]. But I think it can be done."
> 
> ...



Maybe Herb Alpert can do an updated version someday


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## cirdan (Apr 14, 2014)

Some time ago there were proposals to do the same between Ciudad Juarez and El Paso. Those plans have gone very quiet.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 14, 2014)

I remember riding the TJ Trolley back in the early 60s from the Santa Fe Station to the border when the fare was 25 cents? I seriously doubt that with the current troubles in Mexico and the Paranoid Security mindset of our Government if this will ever get "on-track"!

I also remember the Juarez-El Paso Trolley that used to rufrom downtown to downtown and cost a Nickel!


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## tp49 (Apr 14, 2014)

With the border the way it is at San Ysidro I don't see this being practical without building a good deal of infrastructure including some sort of border control for the trolley. The thing that always amused me about the border crossing there is that it's really easy to get into Mexico but not real easy to get out.


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## neroden (Apr 15, 2014)

Maybe if we can elect less xenophobic Congresses and Presidents.

Until then I expect the best we'd see would be a Tijuana streetcar with a walking connection to the SD Trolley.


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## XHRTSP (Apr 16, 2014)

neroden said:


> Until then I expect the best we'd see would be a Tijuana streetcar with a walking connection to the SD Trolley.


Would that not be an acceptable solution, to get off the streetcar at the border, clear customs, walk a few feet across the border, and get on a seperate trolley right on the other side?


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## fairviewroad (Apr 18, 2014)

XHRTSP said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> > Until then I expect the best we'd see would be a Tijuana streetcar with a walking connection to the SD Trolley.
> ...


Acceptable and realistic. And in that case, the San Diego-side has no need to be involved whatsoever.

BUT...

Let's try to imagine how a cross-border LRT could possibly work from a policy standpoint. Let's say for the sake of argument that the existing line to San Ysidro is simply extended south across the border. [Assume you have an unlimited budget to build a bridge or tunnel or to rearrange existing border infrastructure]

If LRT passengers are treated like pedestrians currently are, the southbound trains could simply proceed unimpeded into Tijuana. It would be up to passengers to avoid crossing into Mexico if they wish to remain in the US.

Northbound, it gets tricky. At a bare minimum the US would require passport control just as it does for pedestrians. But it would seem to be highly impractical to have agents board each LRT and conduct a passenger-by-passenger inspection. (In the manner of CBP agents on the Adirondack, for instance). You could not keep a timely schedule and passengers up the line on the San Diego side would never know when the next train would show up due to widely varying times to process passengers.

But, you could require all passengers to exit the train just shy of the border and have them join the existing pedestrian queue. [Or, build a separate queue for rail passengers only, which would certainly increase the popularity of taking the train]. The LRT is quickly inspected for stowaways (hard to hide on a LRT train, i.e. no bathrooms or private accommodations) and the train proceeds across the border empty, save for the operator. Then, it picks up passengers at the existing San Ysidro LRT station and proceeds north to San Diego as normal. Passengers who disembark to clear immigration won't make it through in time to catch the same physical train, but with 10-15 minute headways that won't really matter.

Under this plan the benefits are clear for SB passengers who have a one-seat ride. For NB passengers, it's not much better than simply building a completely separate system on each side of the border, but at least it provides uniformity in equipment, ticketing and scheduling.


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## sechs (Apr 20, 2014)

fairviewroad said:


> But, you could require all passengers to exit the train just shy of the border and have them join the existing pedestrian queue. [Or, build a separate queue for rail passengers only, which would certainly increase the popularity of taking the train]. The LRT is quickly inspected for stowaways (hard to hide on a LRT train, i.e. no bathrooms or private accommodations) and the train proceeds across the border empty, save for the operator. Then, it picks up passengers at the existing San Ysidro LRT station and proceeds north to San Diego as normal. Passengers who disembark to clear immigration won't make it through in time to catch the same physical train, but with 10-15 minute headways that won't really matter.
> 
> Under this plan the benefits are clear for SB passengers who have a one-seat ride. For NB passengers, it's not much better than simply building a completely separate system on each side of the border, but at least it provides uniformity in equipment, ticketing and scheduling.


I don't think that the efficiency going southbound is worth all of the effort going northbound. I don't think that uniformity of equipment, ticketing, and scheduling means much when it all blows up at the border.

On top of having to disgorge all the passengers, border patrol is going to want to do more than just do a quick walk through. And the motorman is going to have to clear the border himself. If they find someone who shouldn't be there, it's going to take more than a few minutes to clear that situation up. Delay, delay, delay.

Logistically, the clear choice is to have separate systems on each side of the border. If you want to use the same cars, allow through tickets, and coordinate schedules, connecting rail is not necessary.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 21, 2014)

sechs said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > But, you could require all passengers to exit the train just shy of the border and have them join the existing pedestrian queue. [Or, build a separate queue for rail passengers only, which would certainly increase the popularity of taking the train]. The LRT is quickly inspected for stowaways (hard to hide on a LRT train, i.e. no bathrooms or private accommodations) and the train proceeds across the border empty, save for the operator. Then, it picks up passengers at the existing San Ysidro LRT station and proceeds north to San Diego as normal. Passengers who disembark to clear immigration won't make it through in time to catch the same physical train, but with 10-15 minute headways that won't really matter.
> ...


I think you're right (as far as the benefits of "through-rail" being questionable). I was just having a little fun trying to imagine how it would actually work. The fact that

some discussions are underway means somebody thinks it's possible/worthwhile. But the "on-the-ground" realities are another thing. [And any plan based on current immigration policy could quickly turn irrelevant depending on the whim of a future Congress/President.]

Come to think of it, are there _any_ examples of urban rail transit crossing international borders anywhere in the world? There surely must be in Europe or Asia (Singapore-Malaysia, perhaps? Holland-Belgium?). But I would assume those are the exception, not the norm. I know there are lots of intercity passenger rail routes that cross international borders (including three here in North America) but those are a very different animal, logistically speaking.


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## CHamilton (Apr 21, 2014)

Berlin's transit systems were "cut in half" by the Berlin Wall, and they had to do a lot of crazy things to make the system work.


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## Eric S (Apr 21, 2014)

I suppose "urban rail" would exclude S-Bahn/RER and similar services. If you include those, then there are certainly a few that cross from Switzerland into surrounding countries, perhaps others in Europe as well.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 22, 2014)

Physically I cant imagine its too difficult to do. Red Line I believe goes all the way to the border. I think its Red line correct me if I am wrong,

Politically unless theres a Schengen type system in place this is going to never work.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 24, 2014)

As far as out-of-the-box border crossing ideas go, the far more interesting and likely one in the San Diego/Tijuana area

is the pedestrian bridge that will allow people to park their cars in the U.S. and fly out of the Tijuana airport. The TIJ

airport literally borders the U.S. and the pedestrian bridge is an idea so logical that you have to wonder how it ever got

approved.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Apr/17/border-crossing-airport-tijuana-san-diego/



> A groundbreaking plan for a privately funded international port of entry linking San Diego directly to Tijuana’s A.L. Rodriguez International Airport appears to have cleared its final hurdle.
> 
> It would allow departing airline passengers to park their cars in San Diego and walk across a bridge to board a plane in Tijuana. For arriving passengers, it would provide a U.S. Customs inspection facility that allows them to cross directly to the United States from the Tijuana airport, and thus avoid lengthy waits at the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa ports of entry.


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## cirdan (Apr 25, 2014)

fairviewroad said:


> Come to think of it, are there _any_ examples of urban rail transit crossing international borders anywhere in the world? There surely must be in Europe or Asia (Singapore-Malaysia, perhaps? Holland-Belgium?). But I would assume those are the exception, not the norm. I know there are lots of intercity passenger rail routes that cross international borders (including three here in North America) but those are a very different animal, logistically speaking.


One of the Basle (Switzerland) streetcar lines crosses into France, serves a single stop there and then crosses back into Switzerland. So that's two border crossings on one line.

Currently they are also building a new line to Weil in Germany, and there are advanced plans for a second line into France that are looking pretty good. In the past there were three further cross-border lines , one into France and two into Germany, but they were discontinued in ca the 1960s.

In the past there were also cross-border lines between Belgium and France and between Belgium and Holland, but none of these survive although there is talk from time to time of putting something back. One likely candidate is an extension of the Belgian line from Panne to Dunkirk using a disused railroad track.


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## jis (Apr 25, 2014)

And then there is the Le Chatelard Bahn which at best can be described as an inter-urban line that connects Martigny in Switzerland to Chamomix in France. One of the more spectacular rides out of the Rhone Valley in Switzerland.

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## cirdan (Apr 25, 2014)

jis said:


> And then there is the Le Chatelard Bahn which at best can be described as an inter-urban line that connects Martigny in Switzerland to Chamomix in France. One of the more spectacular rides out of the Rhone Valley in Switzerland.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


If that counts, then so does the Bernina line from Switzerland into Italy (street running in several places) and also the Euskotren line from San Sebastian (Spain) to Hendaye (France)


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## Trogdor (Apr 25, 2014)

Do any of the above noted European cross-border transit trains predate the Schengen zone? If so, how did they handle border crossing formalities back then?


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## jis (Apr 25, 2014)

Trig, the answer is, Yes, all of them. AFAIK they ran even through WW II when Switzerland was neutral, France was under Vichy control and Italy was of course under Mussolini.

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