# TRIP REPORT - EMPIRE BUILDER



## SUTTONK11 (Jul 20, 2008)

After having walked all over Chicago for several hours and eaten at Giordano's, we were more than ready to board the Empire Builder and settle into our bedroom for the longest segment of continuous train travel. Once settled we went to the Observation Car where we were able to find a couple of seats which is no small achievment given the lack of management of these cars. My wife retired to the bedroom after an hour or so to do some reading and a very nice young graduate student took her seat. He was going to a wedding and was familiar with the section of the country we were traveling through and was kind enough to pass along a little history of the area even though that was the job of the two Rails & Trails people on board.

The two Rails and Trails park rangers, volunteers or whatever they are called were really bad and seemed to think that everyone was equally or more interested in their personal lives as they were in the history of what we were seeing. The two of them spread out over 4 seats in a very overcrowded car and bored us to death for several hours. The head "ranger" had the personality of a doorknob and his female trainee was the equivalent Rachel Ray on adrenalin which led me to contemplate jumping off the train without waiting for it to stop! Upon the realization that my wife and children would never know what happened to me if I jumped, I remained in the Observation Car with my new found friend and we attempted to block out the R&R people with our own conversation. At precisely 5:00, and not a second too soon given the situation, my wife reappeared with two Absolute Citrons on ice and we had a great time looking and talking until our 6:45 dinner reservation.

We were seated at dinner with a very attractive and interesting couple from Germany who were traveling across the U.S. by train to visit their son in Vancouver. Had a good meal ( flatiron steak ) with Veronica and Wolfgang and then, exhausted from our lack of sleep the night before and running around Chicago all day, we went straight to bed.

The next morning at 7:00 we were abruptly awoken by someone loudly singing "Good Morning, Good Morning" over the public address system to announce the beginning of food service in the Observation Car's cafe. As expected, we both had a great nights sleep now that we were used to the motion and sounds of the train even though we would have liked to sleep a little later.

*NOTE*: When traveling by rail in a bedroom or in a roomette, immediately locate the the speaker system in your room and learn which channels are what and how to turn them off at night. It is very easy to do but something nobody tells you about.

I got up and took a shower before going to breakfast and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was - good water pressure, lots of hot water and much more room than I thought for a 6' 1", 210 pounder like me. To our great surprise and pleasure we were seated for breakfast with our new friends from Germany again. The food was good with the French toast leading the voting at our table closely followed by the cheese omelette and scambled eggs with sausage.

My wife took a shower after breakfast and I returned to the Observation Car to watch the North Dakota's endless praires and farmlands dotted with hundreds of pothole ponds holding more wild ducks than I have ever seen - the ducks flew around like pidgeons back home. Since this area of the U.S. is the breeding ground for a big percentage of our duck population and, being a duckhunter, I started to get excited over the prospects of the 2008 waterfowl season ( I am fully cognizant of the fact that this is not a politically correct statement but it's the truth ). Rhonda joined me after her shower and we saw pheasant, deer, geese and many more interesting sights but were becoming increasingly bored with the total lack of any variance in the landscape and began to wonder hoe anyone could live in such remote circumstances; what do you do if there is an accident on the farm or, even more basic, if you need to borrow a cup of sugar or an egg from your neighbor? These thoughts were put aside when we met a young Norwegian school teacher spending his summer traveling around Canada and the U.S. He was fun to talk with and to hear his take on the two countries and the people he had met.

Lunch in the dining car was okay but certainly nothing special. However, the elderly Scottish couple that was seated with us were very special. They were on their way home to San Francisco where they have lived for about 15 years and could not have been more charming and interesting. As far as may choice for food, I reccommend the build a burger.

*NOTE*: If you have a taste for something on the children's menu, don't be afraid to ask for it. This gives you a little more choice since most of the children's menu, such as a hot dog, is not offered on te regular menu.

The train was running a little late so we only reached the mountains while at the dinner table but they were spectacular just the same and a welcome relief from the monotonous flatlands. The transition from open prarie to rocks, cliffs, snow, steams and waterfalls was dramatic and so beautiful that, even though we were seated with a very nice couple from Minneapolis, all any of us wanted to do was stare out of the window at the scenery. Even though it was late in the day there was still plenty of light left when we finished dinner so I thought I would go to the Observation Car for a better look at the new landscape - bad idea. When I walked into the car, I found myself in the midst of a drunkfest with people sceaming, yelling and generally out of control so I did an about face and joined Rhonda in our room.

*NOTE*: The observation cars, with rare exception, were completely unmanaged by Amtrak personel for the entirety of our trip. It ws nothing to see people taking up 2 or 3 seats with their belongings when others were trying to find a place to sit or self proclaimed "lounge lizards" with their sleepingbags rolled out on the floor and brewing coffee with their own coffeemakers in the bar area. Only one time did I see an Amtrak employee ask someone to move their things so others could sit. Amtrak needs to either introduce a reservation system for the observation car, better police it or make it firstclass only.

Once it got too dark to see, we went to bed and again slept great. We awoke to more georgeous scenery in the mountinous apple growing region of Washington. Saw more streams and mountains while enjoying breakfast with a couple that had just gotten on the train on their way to see a Mariners game with their daughter in Seattle. After a good breakfast we returned to our room, got fresh cups of coffee and settled in with the newspaper to watch the scenery for the remainder of our trip to Seattle.

*STAY TUNED - COAST STARLIGHT COMING SOON*


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## the_traveler (Jul 20, 2008)

Great TR! 

I'll be doing that same trip in a couple of months. I have a question about the wine tasting. Do they still do it on the EB? And where? If there's only 1 Sightseer, and it's occupied, and the wine tasting is only for First Class, where do they do it? :huh:


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## WhoozOn1st (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for another fine report, SUTTONK11.

I did the EB eastbound (Portland section) last May, and agree that the scenery on the high plains can get kinda monotonous. As a photo phreak I quickly ran out of ideas. How many shots of Big Sky can one tolerate?

But gotta love that extended high-speed running. Not much of that in California.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not the PETA Patrol. No problem with hunting, long as the kill is consumed. Trophy hunting is an entirely different matter.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 20, 2008)

SUTTONK11 said:


> After having walked all over Chicago for several hours and eaten at Giordano's, we were more than ready to board the Empire Builder and settle into our bedroom for the longest segment of continuous train travel. Once settled we went to the Observation Car where we were able to find a couple of seats which is no small achievment given the lack of management of these cars. My wife retired to the bedroom after an hour or so to do some reading and a very nice young graduate student took her seat. He was going to a wedding and was familiar with the section of the country we were traveling through and was kind enough to pass along a little history of the area even though that was the job of the two Rails & Trails people on board. The two Rails and Trails park rangers, volunteers or whatever they are called were really bad and seemed to think that everyone was equally or more interested in their personal lives as they were in the history of what we were seeing. The two of them spread out over 4 seats in a very overcrowded car and bored us to death for several hours. The head "ranger" had the personality of a doorknob and his female trainee was the equivalent Rachel Ray on adrenalin which led me to contemplate jumping off the train without waiting for it to stop! Upon the realization that my wife and children would never know what happened to me if I jumped, I remained in the Observation Car with my new found friend and we attempted to block out the R&R people with our own conversation. At precisely 5:00, and not a second too soon given the situation, my wife reappeared with two Absolute Citrons on ice and we had a great time looking and talking until our 6:45 dinner reservation.
> 
> We were seated at dinner with a very attractive and interesting couple from Germany who were traveling across the U.S. by train to visit their son in Vancouver. Had a good meal ( flatiron steak ) with Veronica and Wolfgang and then, exhausted from our lack of sleep the night before and running around Chicago all day, we went straight to bed.
> 
> ...


Thanx a Bunch,

I'll be on the west bound EB in Sept. Your report has got me packing!!!!


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## Cascadia (Jul 20, 2008)

Thank you for such a nice trip report from high season on the Empire Builder. I will look forward to hearing more!


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## AlanB (Jul 20, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> I'll be doing that same trip in a couple of months. I have a question about the wine tasting. Do they still do it on the EB? And where? If there's only 1 Sightseer, and it's occupied, and the wine tasting is only for First Class, where do they do it? :huh:


I don't know for sure that they are still doing the wine tasting, although I haven't heard that it was stopped.

And it was done in the dining car between lunch and dinner.


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## jackal (Jul 21, 2008)

SUTTONK11 said:


> ...or self proclaimed "lounge lizards"...


Lounge lizard? Is that like a Singapore Airlines "lounge dragon"? :lol:


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## SUTTONK11 (Jul 21, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> Great TR!
> I'll be doing that same trip in a couple of months. I have a question about the wine tasting. Do they still do it on the EB? And where? If there's only 1 Sightseer, and it's occupied, and the wine tasting is only for First Class, where do they do it? :huh:


Sorry, I had the wine tasting in my trip notes but left it out for some reason. Yes, they still have the wine tasting for First Class in the dining car for a price of $5 per person. We participated and found it well worth the time and money.


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## SUTTONK11 (Jul 21, 2008)

WhoozOn1st said:


> Thanks for another fine report, SUTTONK11.
> I did the EB eastbound (Portland section) last May, and agree that the scenery on the high plains can get kinda monotonous. As a photo phreak I quickly ran out of ideas. How many shots of Big Sky can one tolerate?
> 
> But gotta love that extended high-speed running. Not much of that in California.
> ...


I am in absolute agreement with your philosophy on hunting.


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## SUTTONK11 (Jul 21, 2008)

jackal said:


> SUTTONK11 said:
> 
> 
> > ...or self proclaimed "lounge lizards"...
> ...


It has been awhile since I flew Singapore Airlines and I can't remember what a "lounge dragon" is but the growing number of "lounge lizards" on Amtrak trains will be the end of the Observation Cars if something isn't done. Definition of a "lounge lizard": a person who buys the lowest price ticket and, at the expense and discomfort of other passengers, trys to turn it into a First Class ticket by making the Observation Car into his or her personal sleeper and brags about it as an great accomplishment.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 21, 2008)

SUTTONK11 said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > SUTTONK11 said:
> ...


In September, is Lounge Lizaed Hunting in OPEN SEASON???? In Florida, that's all that's left to do after Gator Season!!!! B)


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> In September, is Lounge Lizaed Hunting in OPEN SEASON???? In Florida, that's all that's left to do after Gator Season!!!! B)


Isn't that when Snowbird season starts? :lol: Or is the hunting season later?


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## yarrow (Jul 21, 2008)

SUTTONK11 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Great TR!
> ...


the rationale for charging for the wine taste on the cs was that the ppc had to pay for itself. what is the rationale for charging for an amenitiy formerly included in the price of a first class ticket on the eb?


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## Rail Freak (Jul 21, 2008)

yarrow said:


> SUTTONK11 said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Cost,Handling, (labor),refrigeration,disposal, recycle,???


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## Cascadia (Jul 21, 2008)

SUTTONK11 said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > SUTTONK11 said:
> ...


I was thinking you should start a thread about this situation in the main forum and add this other part that you wrote:

"I thought I would go to the Observation Car for a better look at the new landscape - bad idea. When I walked into the car, I found myself in the midst of a drunkfest with people sceaming, yelling and generally out of control so I did an about face and joined Rhonda in our room.

NOTE: The observation cars, with rare exception, were completely unmanaged by Amtrak personel for the entirety of our trip. It ws nothing to see people taking up 2 or 3 seats with their belongings when others were trying to find a place to sit or self proclaimed "lounge lizards" with their sleepingbags rolled out on the floor and brewing coffee with their own coffeemakers in the bar area. Only one time did I see an Amtrak employee ask someone to move their things so others could sit. Amtrak needs to either introduce a reservation system for the observation car, better police it or make it firstclass only."

This is high season on the Empire Builder, Amtrak's flagship train. A lot of very respectable people pay big bucks to take a once in a lifetime trip on this train. There is really no excuse for the observation car to turn into a free-for-all campground situation. There should be some decorum enforced. I think this is pretty important, it is part of Amtrak's image, which they are trying to promote. The people who would be inconvenienced and offended most by this are the ones who are far too polite to make a fuss. But they are the ones Amtrak wants as customers and if they let this situation go on it will drive the best kind of customers away.

Please start a new thread with the things you wrote about, in the main forum! And I hope you write a letter to Amtrak when you get back. I think the attendants aren't doing their job properly if they don't take control of this situation. It's all downhill from here if this keeps going on. Sorry to be a pessimist or to overreact but I see what goes on in public on the streets and in stores, etc, and it's all getting kind of disturbing to me really.


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## Chessie Hokie (Jul 21, 2008)

I just completed a PDX-CHI trip on the EB on Saturday, but didn't hear anything about wine tasting. However, the PA system in my roomette was very intermittent, so I may have missed the announcement.

The only indication of the "enhanced dining" feature on the _EB_ that I could determine was the welcome use of china and glassware. The menu was the exact same menu for all meals used on the _Coast Starlight, California Zephyr _and my most recent trip on the _Crescent_. Seafood selection was trout on both _CZ_ and _EB_...not sure on _CS_, as I missed that meal. The "Chef's Lunch Special" was turkey and gravy over a biscuit on both the _CS_ and _EB_ (it begged for a side of mashed potatoes!), while the _CZ_ offered meatballs and yellow rice.

I was rather unceremoniously given a small split of a nondescript California sparkling wine...not quite chilled enough...to accompany my cold boxed dinner on the PDX section.

The order of cars on the EB was certainly interesting, due to merging the two sections (Portland and Seattle) in Spokane. I was on the PDX section: one P42 locomotive followed , in order, by the Sightseer Lounge, two coaches and a sleeper. Upon arrival at Spokane, this section was coupled onto the rear of the Seattle section (the P42 went forward, of course). The Seattle section, as I recall, had (in order) a P42, baggage car, transition dorm, two sleepers (possibly only one, but I believe two), a dining car, and two coaches. Thus from the last car in the combined consist (the PDX sleeper) one had to walk through two coaches to get to the lounge car and then two more coaches to reach the diner. Many PDX sleeper passengers preferred walking to/from the diner during station stops, where possible. A fifth coach was tacked behind the trailing PDX sleeper in MSP. A private car, the _City of Spokane_, in glorious Great Northern pullman green and Omaha orange livery, trailed from Spokane to Chicago.

The views along the Columbia River were fabulous running eastbound...be sure to sit on the right (south) side when traveling eastbound! Crossing of the Continental Divide at Marias Pass/Glacier National Park is somewhat less spectacular than the _CZ_'s crossing of the Colorado Rockies, IMHO, but still a great trip...sitting on the left (north) side for this segment is moderately better.


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2008)

I agree. One reason I like to go to the Sightseer is to enjoy and view the scenery outside the train - not the "scenery" inside the car!


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## Chessie Hokie (Jul 21, 2008)

BTW, my sleeper on the EB was a remanufactured Superliner I (#32029). The shower/bathroom layout on this was a huge improvement over other Superliners I have been on. Very nice!


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## dan72 (Jul 22, 2008)

I may be painting with a big brush here, but I noticed the lounge seat hogging going on when I was on the the Southwest Chief this last March as well. It seems like this is something Amtrak needs to start addressing this issue system wide and confronting some of this behavior.

On the other hand, back in May 2006, there were several people being quite rude in the lounge car when the assistant conductor came by and told them to 'knock if off or else.' They quickly complied.

Dan


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## Cascadia (Jul 22, 2008)

It occurred to me that part of the solution to the takeover of the observation cars might be to put some kind of limit on what kind of baggage or belongings you are allowed to bring in with you. They could say it was for safety reasons, so people don't trip, and for courtesy reasons, to insure seats are available to those who want them. Safety and courtesy, you can only bring one small bag or purse with you. That would be a start. And of course there should be flexibility in enforcement, it should just be a guideline.


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## the_traveler (Jul 22, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> for courtesy reasons


I doubt the lounge lizards care about courtesy!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

On an employees' forum I've seen where some have suggested that Amtrak police ride certain sections of routes. Some of them feel as though their hands are tied. If they lay down the law, letters get written and they get punished. I would suggest that if you see an employee enforcing a rule and being given a sharp slice of attitude that you make a note of the belligerant passenger's behavior, approach the Amtrak employee and tell them that you will write a letter on their behalf supporting their position. Give the employee your name and address as a witness.

A different definition of a lounge lizard is one who hangs around bars without ceasing.


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## gswager (Jul 23, 2008)

Guest said:


> On an employees' forum I've seen where some have suggested that Amtrak police ride certain sections of routes. Some of them feel as though their hands are tied. If they lay down the law, letters get written and they get punished. I would suggest that if you see an employee enforcing a rule and being given a sharp slice of attitude that you make a note of the belligerant passenger's behavior, approach the Amtrak employee and tell them that you will write a letter on their behalf supporting their position. Give the employee your name and address as a witness.
> A different definition of a lounge lizard is one who hangs around bars without ceasing.


I've seen a plainclothes Amtrak police on SWC, with a badge on his belt and a gun.


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## wisEBfan (Aug 11, 2008)

yarrow said:


> SUTTONK11 said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Any charge for the wine/cheese tasting event on the EB would be a brand new policy. I was in the Portland Sleeper on the EB both westbound and eastbound in early July 2008, and there was no charge for the event at that time. I guess Amtrak's dining operation needs to increase its revenues any way it can. (BTW: If there is now a charge, whether it would be worth $5 would vary with the person handling the event. In the past [2006 & 2007], a couple of times the master of ceremonies--as it were--was extremely knowledgeable about wines, and an excellent speaker--I would gladly have paid $5 or more to attend. Other times, I'd just as soon have spent the time walking around the depot platform at Havre, MT--which overlaps the event if the westbound train is running a bit late).

My experience is that the signup for the event varies from train to train. Sometimes a sleeping car attendant will ask you if you wish to attend at the time you board the sleeper. Other times, he/she will come around that morning and ask about it. On my last trip, a signup sheet was simply left on a table alongside the ice cooler in the center of the sleeper, and the sleeping car attendant made an announcement that morning to us to sign up by lunch time if interested. Most of the time there has been an announcement over the general train P/A system when the time (3 PM) approaches, but not always. The bottom line is that if you are interested in this event, ask the sleeping car attendant about it at the time you board to find out how the signup for it will be handled, and verify the time.


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