# Points Purchase Limit is Raised (but price per point increased)



## hessjm (Jun 1, 2015)

I received an email for another 30% bonus period through July 12, additionally it announced that the annual limit is now 15,000 points per year. I don't believe this is targeted since I'm SE and the normal limit does not apply.

The email indicates for those who have already purchased 10,000 points now may buy the additional 5,000 points!


----------



## City of Miami (Jun 1, 2015)

I received the email too. It also said you could give away all the points. I have too many already.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 1, 2015)

City of Miami said:


> I received the email too. It also said you could give away all the points. I have too many already.


For those that don't get the e-mail the link is on the AGR Home Site!
John and Joe: If you'd like to make a points contribution, I'm your man! LOL


----------



## Train2104 (Jun 1, 2015)

Do bonus points count? (i.e. I bought 13,000 via the offer - can I now buy 5,000; or only 2,000?)

EDIT: I got as far as entering the credit card info even if I choose the 15,000 option in the dropdown...


----------



## Rail Freak (Jun 1, 2015)

Now, this just puts a Big Ol Grin on my face!!!!!!


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 1, 2015)

Train2104 said:


> Do bonus points count? (i.e. I bought 13,000 via the offer - can I now buy 5,000; or only 2,000?)
> 
> EDIT: I got as far as entering the credit card info even if I choose the 15,000 option in the dropdown...


Nope, you can buy 5,000 more points and you'll get a 20% Bonus, 1,000, for a total of 6,000 Points. Cost: $137.50


----------



## the_traveler (Jun 1, 2015)

City of Miami said:


> I received the email too. It also said you could give away all the points. I have too many already.


I need a few thousand (Maybe about 15,000  ) more!


----------



## Train2104 (Jun 1, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Nope, you can but 5,000 points and you'll get a 20% Bonus, 1,000, for a total of 6,000 Points. Cost: $137.50


Bought and went through. So now I have over 20,000 points, for $412.50 in purchases and ~$378 in Amtrak fare. Given that a two zone roomette can easily run over $1,000 (and that I didn't take any true points runs), I'd say that's a good deal!


----------



## George K (Jun 1, 2015)




----------



## the_traveler (Jun 1, 2015)

Just looked at the site - and it's NOT targeted!  (At least I did not get any email.)

Better news is ifyoudid not buy any points this year yet, ANY amount of 10,000 to 15,000 points earns a 30% bonus!  If you had previously bought 10,000 (not including bonuses), you can up 5,000 more but it will only earn a 20% bonus.


----------



## George K (Jun 1, 2015)

Just to be clear, the number of points you can get per year is limited to 15K (other than by travel and AGR purchases, credit card, etc)?

The reason I ask is that D4 bought 10K points this year. To increase her total, we can either buy another 5K (6K) points, or *I* can buy and transfer to her. However, the max per person, per year, is still 15K.

Right?


----------



## Ryan (Jun 1, 2015)

Right.


----------



## tomfuller (Jun 1, 2015)

In January I bought 10K with 3K bonus. Today I bought 5K with a 1K bonus. With my recent purchases including a pair of boots from shoebuy (10points/$) I'll soon have enough points for at least a 1 zone trip.


----------



## TinCan782 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hmmmm....my suspicious side is wondering...is a points redemption increase in our future?

Hope not.

When was the last one...three or four years ago?


----------



## the_traveler (Jun 2, 2015)

The previous change did not affect the redemption rate for roomettes. I usually travel in roomettes, and the rates were 15/20/35. Today the rates are 15/20/35. Thus it had no effect on me, or most of the other people in the sleeping car!


----------



## Eris (Jun 2, 2015)

Well, hrmph. That would have saved me $50 (actually a little more, with the bonus) this week, by only needing to pay to transfer 5000 instead of 10000. Alas.


----------



## jis (Jun 2, 2015)

So I just got my 5000+1000 additional point via purchase.

The odd thing is that the point purchase web pages themselves seem to have no clue about how many points you have already purchased this year. They keep offering to sell you more even if you really cannot since you have maxed out for the year.


----------



## Eric S (Jun 2, 2015)

I noticed the same thing, and went ahead and tried to buy the full 15,000+bonus - I thought I had purchased points earlier this year, but figured I'd give it a shot. Only after the purchase tried to go through did it tell me that I was trying to purchase more than the limit. So I purchased the 5,000+bonus instead.


----------



## Railroad Bill (Jun 2, 2015)

We just bought our 5,000 + 1,000 points on our two accounts as we had already done the 30% bonus earlier. More "free rides" in sleepers coming up


----------



## benale (Jun 2, 2015)

The price to buy points has gone up. Last time I looked it was $27.50 to buy 1000 points. Now it's $37.70. Even with the bonus, it is a much better deal doing point runs during double days for me. ELT-HAR $11.04 R/T 450 points with my select status. Unless there is that 50 percent bonus no matter how many points you buy, I'll wait until September when Double Days return.


----------



## jis (Jun 2, 2015)

Points purchases is for us who have to drive 60 mile out and 60 miles back to station from where one can at most collect a measly 200 points + bonus in a day.


----------



## Eris (Jun 2, 2015)

Oh! Yes, the price has gone up. 10,000 points is now $377, not the $275 it was last week. Or, in fact, this morning when I went to look in response to this thread. !


----------



## George K (Jun 2, 2015)

Well, isn't that special.

It's now 3.7¢ per point.

$377 in points will get you a roomette to...nowhere.

But, a roomette CHI to EMY is over $1000 in June.

It would be nice to combine points and cash (like I did for a 4 day stay in DC using United Rewards).


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 2, 2015)

Maybe the title of the thread can be updated to include the 37% increase in the cost for points?


----------



## jis (Jun 2, 2015)

I really like the cash and points thing at both United and Hilton Honors.



George K said:


> Well, isn't that special.
> 
> It's now 3.7¢ per point.
> 
> ...


----------



## George K (Jun 2, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe the title of the thread can be updated to include the 37% increase in the cost for points?


Now *there's* a glass-half-empty type of guy.


----------



## willem (Jun 2, 2015)

For what it's worth, Hyatt also has points plus cash, although I understand individual hotels can set low capacities. At least some Intercontinenta Hotels Group (Holiday Inn family and ohers) also have points plus cash, but I have never seen what I would consider to be a decent redemption rate for the points.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jun 2, 2015)

FrensicPic has it right,I believe. Price of pts. have increased, waiting on the increase in redemptions!!!


----------



## Ryan (Jun 2, 2015)

There was a brief window of time yesterday where the limit had been raised, but the cost was still the same. I verified that 10,000 still cost $275, and you could get 15,000 + 4,500 bonus for $415.50.

That's only 500 points shy of a 2 zone roomette, and one hell of a deal for those that jumped on it.


----------



## TinCan782 (Jun 2, 2015)

Ryan said:


> There was a brief window of time yesterday where the limit had been raised, but the cost was still the same. I verified that 10,000 still cost $275, and you could get 15,000 + 4,500 bonus for $415.50.
> 
> That's only 500 points shy of a 2 zone roomette, and one hell of a deal for those that jumped on it.


Saw that yesterday when I checked...still $275. Guess I should "jumped" on it then!


----------



## Train2104 (Jun 2, 2015)

Even at 3.7 cents per point, the 19,500 points is $555 right now.

Combine that with 500 points in sign-up bonus, or even $250 in Amtrak tickets, and it's still cheaper than the $1000+ TOL-EMY in a roomette can cost.

Even 20k points bought without the offers over two years is $740.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 2, 2015)

Yep,the story of my life! A day late and a dollar short!


----------



## Bigval109 (Jun 2, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Train2104 said:
> 
> 
> > Do bonus points count? (i.e. I bought 13,000 via the offer - can I now buy 5,000; or only 2,000?)
> ...


Did the price of points go up? When I went to buy 5000 points the cost was $188. not $137.50 as shown above.

Is this right? please check in case I did something wrong.


----------



## TinCan782 (Jun 2, 2015)

Bigval109 said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Train2104 said:
> ...


The price went UP last night...from $0.0275 to $0.0377 per point! :angry:


----------



## Bigval109 (Jun 2, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe the title of the thread can be updated to include the 37% increase in the cost for points?


It was a big shock  to me when I went to buy the points and discovered the price of points

had gone up.  Right now I dont quite know what to do. :blink:


----------



## Bigval109 (Jun 2, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Yep,the story of my life! A day late and a dollar short!


I'm a member of that club, a day late and a dollar short. Was there any warning about the

price increase?


----------



## Bigval109 (Jun 2, 2015)

Bigval109 said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the title of the thread can be updated to include the 37% increase in the cost for points?
> ...


I just checked and the price of 10000 points went up $100.  That's quite a jump :help:


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 2, 2015)

Bigval109 said:


> Bigval109 said:
> 
> 
> > Devil's Advocate said:
> ...


I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way.


----------



## calwatch (Jun 3, 2015)

If you are going to buy points and have decent credit this makes getting points from Chase or SPG even more worthwhile. Chase Sapphire Preferred, Chase Ink Plus, and AMEX SPG all have no annual fee for the first year and have good sign up bonuses. If you need more points you can join the frequent flyers and pay taxes for two pennies a point, or buy Visa gift cards that can be converted into money orders for about a penny a point. Incidentally this is why I think a devaluation is inevitable, once all the airlines finish their devaluations in the next couple years. It's too easy to manufacture points with sign up bonuses and spend.


----------



## rrdude (Jun 3, 2015)

While I agree with the other posters about "missing" the day or so when the price was lower, let's remember that while many of us come/came to this forum in order to find ways to MAXIMIZE our point redemption, and point accumulation, the "health" of Amtrak should also be a concern, at least at some level.

Yield Management needs to take into account the occupancy of sleepers by those using points, (not matter how accumulated, bought, traded, earned, transferred, etc.) And I've got to believe that having too many beds occupied by "points" when, (if) they could have been "sold" to cash-paying customers, is not in the best interest of Amtrak.

Granted, points-partners "pay" Amtrak for the points, just like the company that facilitates "Buying Points", AND, when one buys points, Amtrak is getting a certain percentage of the revenue up-front, and as any business person knows, "cash-is-king".

But if Amtrak's sleeper demand really is non-elastic, (And I doubt it, I think they are just trying to find the sweet-spot, except for the Cardinal, which does seem non-elastic) then raising the price for the sleepers, no matter what avenue a traveler takes to get those points, makes sense for Amtrak's bottom line.

In one sense, it's kind of hard to believe that Amtrak even has a loyalty program, as they are THEE only game in town for LD travel... But, if done right, the loyalty program CAN be a profit-generator, IF done right.


----------



## crescent2 (Jun 3, 2015)

Well, Jim and others, I'm a day late and dollar short, too. I checked as soon as I got the email the other day, and the full 15,000 + 30% bonus points was $412.50. Guess I should have acted then. :unsure: Now I'm undecided, as the remaining LD trips I want to take (other than ATN-NOL, which is too cheap to bother using precious points) are always so iffy to pull off for me.

And, for some of us, the double days and points runs aren't an option because of where we live.

Really wishing I'd jumped on the offer when I first got the email! sigh


----------



## TinCan782 (Jun 4, 2015)

I just "re-calculated" two recent AGR redemption trips and one upcoming AGR redemption trip at the old (.0275) vs the new (.0377) price per points. When I booked these trips via AGR, I also did a "test" reservation for the same trips on the same days to see the cash cost. The new AGR points rate pretty much eliminates the cost advantage of using points (if purchased rather than earned via credit card or shopping mall purchases).

The three trips were a

3 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was about $80 less than the cash fare.

2 zone bedroom - The "cost" of the points was only slightly less than the cash fare.

1 zone bedroom - the "cost' of the points was $50 more than the cash fare.

That said, purchasing points during a promotion of a 30% bonus helps. Many of my points are earned via my AGR MasterCard and use of the AGR shopping mall rather than annual purchase of points. By accumulating points, I am able to "pay" for a trip in advance, even before actually booking a trip.

I will continue to purchase the maximum (now 15k at $0.0377) each year when the bonus promotion is in effect. Hopefully, they don't increase the points amount required for redeeming points!


----------



## benale (Jun 4, 2015)

I'm about 40 miles from the nearest Amtrak station. During Double Days point runs are now much more economical for me than buying points with the pretty hefty increase,even with the bonus. Of course, you get a little train ride out of it too. As other posters have stated I hope this isn't a prelude to higher redemption points. The 2 zone roomette at 20,000 is still a good deal. i hope we don't see that jump to 25,000.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 4, 2015)

George K said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the title of the thread can be updated to include the 37% increase in the cost for points?
> ...


I've been following the points game for over a decade and I've learned when to wait for the other shoe to drop.


----------



## me_little_me (Jun 8, 2015)

FrensicPic said:


> I just "re-calculated" two recent AGR redemption trips and one upcoming AGR redemption trip at the old (.0275) vs the new (.0377) price per points. When I booked these trips via AGR, I also did a "test" reservation for the same trips on the same days to see the cash cost. The new AGR points rate pretty much eliminates the cost advantage of using points (if purchased rather than earned via credit card or shopping mall purchases).
> 
> The three trips were a
> 
> ...


It all depends on the price of the tickets at the time. My last trip (GRV-->TOL-->DER KAL-->ABQ ABQ-->GRV) was 90K points or $4600. That comes out to $.05+ per point. Buying points would be a great deal as compared to paying cash. That's $3300 in cost w/o any bonus. Given that I and my wife could purchase 15K each in December and another 15K in January, we could go the following year after buying another 15K each.

Now that doesn't include the following benefits:

Point bonuses

Ability to cancel w/o penalty at the last minute

Ability to change reservations w/o penalty at the last minute

5% AGR Chase card refund of points

minus the loss:

I wouldn't get the points for paying cash.

So, without the extras and loss, it is still a great deal.


----------



## TinCan782 (Jun 8, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> Now that doesn't include the following benefits:
> 
> Point bonuses
> 
> ...


 
Agreed. My calculations above were strictly using the new point purchase cost. A number of my points come from other sources such as regular use of the Chase AGR credit card and the AGR Shopping Portal which changes the actual cost of point.

The perks you mention above are great. As I pointed out in my post, I (and my wife too) will continue to purchase points during the bonus times.


----------



## Amtrak George (Jun 14, 2015)

It's been a while since I purchased points and I would like to take advantage of the 15,000 point / 30% bonus offer. When I log in to purchase points (haven't bought any this year) do I list 15,000 as what I want to buy? And then, does the system automatically add the bonus?


----------



## JayPea (Jun 14, 2015)

Yes, you would list the 15,000 as your amount. I have always had the bonus added immediately, but I have heard of instances where this was not the case. They are supposed to be added immediately though.


----------



## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2015)

Yes, chose how many you want to purchase (without the bonus), and you will get the bonus amount added. (Buy 10,000 and receive 13,000, buy 15,000 and receive 19,500)


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 15, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> It all depends on the price of the tickets at the time. My last trip (GRV-->TOL-->DER KAL-->ABQ ABQ-->GRV) was 90K points or $4600. That comes out to $.05+ per point. Buying points would be a great deal as compared to paying cash. That's $3300 in cost w/o any bonus. Given that I and my wife could purchase 15K each in December and another 15K in January, we could go the following year after buying another 15K each.


Have you ever spent or seriously entertained spending $4,600 in cash on Amtrak tickets before? If not, how can you claim your points are worth an amount you would never actually spend? If Amtrak raises the cost further is there a level at which you'd admit the price was beyond relevance for factoring the practical value of points? I'm find the concept of valuing points at a price beyond actual consideration to be rather confusing and pointless.


----------



## stevester (Jun 16, 2015)

If I buy points and havent had paid travel in last 3 years am I at risk of losing the points?

AGR rules say points expire after 3 years from last paid travel.


----------



## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2015)

Yes! 

Purchasing points, shopping at Points for Shopping and points earned from the credit card do not extend the expiratdate. Only actual travel extends it.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jun 16, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> Yes!
> 
> Purchasing points, shopping at Points for Shopping and points earned from the credit card do not extend the expiratdate. Only actual travel extends it.


I though having the AGR credit card will keep your points from expiring.


----------



## Ryan (Jun 16, 2015)

That is correct.


----------



## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2015)

My mistake.


----------



## me_little_me (Jun 16, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > It all depends on the price of the tickets at the time. My last trip (GRV-->TOL-->DER KAL-->ABQ ABQ-->GRV) was 90K points or $4600. That comes out to $.05+ per point. Buying points would be a great deal as compared to paying cash. That's $3300 in cost w/o any bonus. Given that I and my wife could purchase 15K each in December and another 15K in January, we could go the following year after buying another 15K each.
> ...


Yes, I considered it. However, had I paid cash,

I would likely go off-season and not when we wanted to go.

I would have likely had to change my whole itinerary to take into account days when the cost would have been less.

I would have had to risk canceling and losing some of my money in case plans had to change.

I would not have had the flexibility to possibly change part of our trip if we decided to try and stay a few more days.

I would likely have taken a couple of roomettes instead of a BR if it were cheaper.

But, yes, I would likely gone during the same time period, spent the money, then checked every day to see if we could get a better deal if the prices went down or the next day's train was cheaper. But I would have gone. We hate flying. We enjoy train travel. She wanted the BRs instead of roomettes. We considered the train trip to be as much of the vacation as the trip itself. We even stopped in Kalamazoo overnight at a B&B "wasting" a day and $200 just to make it easier on my uncle who was hosting us in the Dearborn area and just "for the hell of it".

We plan one big trip a year. Last year we used points twice for long trips but would have gone anyway. This year, we are looking at a second vacation only because the money we allocated for the first one was used in points.


----------



## VentureForth (Jun 17, 2015)

The new price point certainly encourages double travel when booking 2-3 zone sleepers. You still get way more bang for your buck.

As for announcing increases, it's not in the interest of a company to announce price increases. Many will tell you they are coming, but most won't tell you when.


----------



## inspiration100 (Jun 26, 2015)

Were point redemption increases last time (on the bedrooms) announced ahead of time? If not, did they give you time to book a trip before the increase would occur?


----------



## Ispolkom (Jun 26, 2015)

Yes, the redemption increase was announced 6-8 weeks IIRC before it took effect, and you could book travel at the lower rate as far as eleven months out. I remember booking a variety of trips, about half of which I later canceled.


----------



## Shanghai (Jun 26, 2015)

I think I screwed up. I previously purchased 15,000 points for me.

Recently, I purchased 5,000 points for another person, then I realized

that I had gone over the limit. My credit card was charged for the

second purchase, but no points were delivered to the account for

which I purchased. The transaction "fine line" states no refunds,

no exchanges. I don't know if I have any recourse with Amtrak

or Points.com. Has anyone been in this situation before? I did not

receive any notification that I was over the limit when I was making the purchase.

I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 26, 2015)

Dick, you may want to call your Credit Card Company, they are very good about correcting transactions where you don't receive the service or merchandise for which you paid!

Wouldn't hurt to call AGR either, they should fix their web site and software so it won't allow situations like this!

You may also want to send AGR Insider ( Anthony) a PM on Flyertalk, he's very good at looking into AGR concerns as we know!


----------



## Shanghai (Jun 26, 2015)

Thanks for your advice, Jim. I'm happy to report that my transaction was honored and completed.

I received an email from Amtrak advising me the transaction was completed.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 26, 2015)

Great Dick, I've always received good to wonderful service from AGR since it moved " in house"!

Bet you're glad you're not on the Western trains, none of them are having a good week!


----------



## SteveSFL (Jun 27, 2015)

I though the limit was on how many purchased points an account could receive, rather than on how many a person could purchase, no? For example, if I want to purchase 15K for my account, I could also purchase 15K for my dad's account and 15K for my mom's account. But my mom and dad could not purchase any more if I had already purchased the limit for their accounts.

Am I right?


----------



## Ryan (Jun 27, 2015)

It appears the limit is on buying and receiving:



> Amtrak Guest Rewards Buy/Gift Points can be purchased in increments of 500 points, and each Member may buy or receive up to a total of 15,000 points in a calendar year. Select Executive Members are not subject to limits on the number of points they may Buy/Gift/Share.


In your example, I think that if you've bought 15k for your account, you can't buy any for anyone else (but they can buy them on their own, and you could give them the money outside of channels).


----------



## George K (Jun 27, 2015)

I purchased 10K points for myself early this year, and another 10K for each of two daughters. When the limit was increased, I bought another 5K (with bonuses) for myself and the kids. So, this year, I purchased a total of 45K points.

I'm a generous dad. 

Ryan, you might be right. I believe I went through their account, and paid with my credit card.


----------

