# United Airlines Lithium Battery policy?



## caravanman

Hi Folks,

I am not a frequent flier, but everytime I think about a flight, the "rules" seem to change!

I found this on the United Airlines website today:

*Safety notice*

Effective July 9, 2018, lithium batteries that are installed in any checked or carry-on baggage must be removed by the customer. Once removed, these batteries can be transported on board. Smart bags that do not have a removable battery cannot travel on any United or United Express® flights.

I recently bought a small lightweight asus laptop, the battery is completely within the laptop.

Am I missing something???

Ed.


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## jis

This is about lithium batteries that are installed in the so called "Smart Bags" to power the smartness. Basically, unless those batteries can be removed the bags are not acceptable. So if you don't have a "smart bag" you are OK to go. I am assuming that your laptop is just a normal laptop and not part of a "smart bag" of any sort. You can carry your laptop in hand baggage. If you place it in checked baggage they might get on your case, but that is a different rule, not this one.


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## B757Guy

Your laptop is fine. No need to worry.


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## Devil's Advocate

The rule mentioned above is mainly talking about luggage like this...



As Jis alluded there are a half dozen other rules involving the transport of lithium batteries and/or use of laptops and these rules do change over time, so if you end up flying United (or another airline) a year or two from now this advice may no longer be applicable.


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## railiner

> 1 hour ago, Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> The rul﻿e mentioned above is mainly talking about luggage like this...



What will they think of, next?

I don't think I would spring for a thousand dollars for a piece of luggage, the way they get handled...


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## caravanman

Cheers for that information, I had no idea that any luggage that contained batteries even existed, hence my confusion.

Further reading on United informs me that I can't even bring a normal carry on cabin size bag in their very cheapest seats, but just one even smaller "personal item".

Time to dig out my huge overcoat with all the "poachers pockets", methinks...

Thanks again!

Ed


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## Devil's Advocate

Even "personal items" can be surprisingly roomy so long as you plan ahead.







Link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071G2D5MM/

If you haven't already booked your flight I'd recommend checking prices for Main Cabin Extra on AA or Comfort Plus on DL as well.


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## cpotisch

caravanman said:


> Cheers for that information, I had no idea that any luggage that contained batteries even existed, hence my confusion.
> 
> Further reading on United informs me that I can't even bring a normal carry on cabin size bag in their very cheapest seats, but just one even smaller "personal item".
> 
> Time to dig out my huge overcoat with all the "poachers pockets", methinks...
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Ed


Yeah, it's a new (and in my opinion, dumb) trend. Some of them even contain WiFi hotspots, such that you literally have to get a cell plan for your suitcase. I don't understand why people can't just get a MiFi or use their phone's hotspot, and why people have to have a suitcase that contains a battery instead of just bringing a portable battery pack. Yet here we are.


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## AutoTrDvr

jis said:


> This is about lithium batteries that are installed in the so called "Smart Bags" to power the smartness. Basically, unless those batteries can be removed the bags are not acceptable. So if you don't have a "smart bag" you are OK to go. I am assuming that your laptop is just a normal laptop and not part of a "smart bag" of any sort. You can carry your laptop in hand baggage. If you place it in checked baggage they might get on your case, but that is a different rule, not this one.


And I would never put a laptop in checked baggage.  I would hope that an exception would be made for laptops, smart phones, etc. Otherwise, we would not be able to use them in flight. And I don't know if they still make NiMH batteries for laptops anymore.


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## jis

AutoTrDvr said:


> And I would never put a laptop in checked baggage.  I would hope that an exception would be made for laptops, smart phones, etc. Otherwise, we would not be able to use them in flight. And I don't know if they still make NiMH batteries for laptops anymore.


Whatever gave you the impression that laptops, smarphones or noise canceling headphones Bluetooth or otherwise, are not permitted in hand baggage? They are all allowed and you are allowed to use them all on board, except that one cannot have the regular wireless telephone connection on while in flight. You are allowed to use both WiFi and Bluetooth in the cabin.


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## AutoTrDvr

jis said:


> Whatever gave you the impression that laptops, smarphones or noise canceling headphones Bluetooth or otherwise, are not permitted in hand baggage? They are all allowed and you are allowed to use them all on board, except that one cannot have the regular wireless telephone connection on while in flight. You are allowed to use both WiFi and Bluetooth in the cabin.


I was aware of all that, having flown much and having used a laptop and headphones quite a bit. But I haven't flown anywhere since 2016, and I wasn't sure if rules had changed about laptops that have Li-Po batteries, etc.


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## PVD

From United Airlines:

*Lithium batteries*

Personal devices (except for e-cigarettes and personal vaporizers) installed with a lithium battery of less than 100 watt hours are permitted in carry-on and checked baggage. Loose lithium batteries are not permitted in checked baggage on any United flight. Each spare lithium battery in carry-on baggage must be individually protected to prevent short circuits. To do this, you can place each battery in original retail packaging, place each battery in a separate plastic bag or protective pouch, or insulate the batteries by taping over exposed terminals. Spare batteries must not come in contact with metal objects, such as coins, keys or jewelry, and you should take steps to prevent crushing, puncturing, or putting pressure on the battery.

In most cases, up to two larger lithium batteries (more than 100 watt hours, but not exceeding 160 watt hours) are permitted in carry-on baggage if the terminals are properly covered or insulated. If you are traveling with a battery-operated mobility device, please see our Special Travel Needs section.

If carry-on baggage is checked at the gate, any lithium batteries and power banks must be removed.


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## caravanman

There were some restrictions on bringing laptops, etc, as carry on items, but this was a security scare, now seemingly past...

The missing Malaysian airliner was said to be carrying a big cargo load of lithium batteries, just saying... 

Not booked any flights, starting to get itchy feet again! (London to Chicago direct for £300 return in January looks good, albeit with only one carry on personal item).  

Thanks again for all the clarifications.

Ed.


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## B757Guy

Stick with United, the pilots are so much better trained than AA or Delta.


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## Devil's Advocate

caravanman said:


> (1) There were some restrictions on bringing laptops, etc, as carry on items, but this was a security scare, now seemingly past...(2) The missing Malaysian airliner was said to be carrying a big cargo load of lithium batteries, just saying... (3) Not booked any flights, starting to get itchy feet again! (London to Chicago direct for £300 return in January looks good, albeit with only one carry on personal item). Thanks again for all the clarifications. ﻿


1. Do some more investigating and you may arrive at the conclusion that the blatantly arbitrary laptop ban was more about penalizing specific countries/carriers rather than making all passengers legitimately safer.

2.  Although an in-flight fire is both fast moving and extremely destructive it is exceedingly rare for such an event to take out an entire wide body commercial aircraft before even one single emergency transmission can be made.  If it were a fire we should have heard something.  If it were a bomb we should have found a debris field.  Controlled flight into terrain (in this case a body of water) or programmed flight until fuel exhaustion are more likely events.

3.  That price is excellent, although in the case of UA's basic economy I would expect middle seats, no legroom, minimal or nonexistent assistive/corrective options, and no luggage other than what can fit under your seat (or an enormous moochers coat). :lol:


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## railiner

B757Guy said:


> Stick with United, the pilots are so much better trained than AA or Delta.


Is that anecdotal, based on your opinion, or what you've heard; or do you have any evidence to support that rather strong statement?


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## AmtrakBlue

railiner said:


> Is that anecdotal, based on your opinion, or what you've heard; or do you have any evidence to support that rather strong statement?


My guess is he flies for United.  He's a pilot.


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## jis

railiner said:


> Is that anecdotal, based on your opinion, or what you've heard; or do you have any evidence to support that rather strong statement?


You did not notice the smiley? He is not really making a serious statement based on any major study. Just an off the cuff non-serious remark from a United pilot. [emoji57] Lighten up man!


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## railiner

jis said:


> You did not notice the smiley? He is not really making a serious statement based on any major study. Just an off the cuff non-serious remark from a United pilot.
> 
> 
> 
> Lighten up man!


If that's the case, I apologize....nothing wrong with "friendly rivalry"....


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## B757Guy

Yes, was meant to be humorous...


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## Devil's Advocate

I took it as a joke myself, mainly because of the smiley face emoticon, and in my experience commercial airline pilots as a group are generally calm and deliberate with their online commentary.  That being said, I've also seen airline staff take the occasional hard swipe at each other in unfriendly terms.  Amtrak's own Richard Anderson is (in)famous for laying unfounded claims and baseless innuendo on the ME3.  I'm no fan of those carriers but I'm also not a fan of unfounded nationalistic nonsense.


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## jis

Anderson’s position was particularly ridiculous because Delta deliberately chose to ignore the market where the ME3 built their business and the space where Delta has never shown any desire to be a serious contender, even from among the US3.


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## BCL

caravanman said:


> Cheers for that information, I had no idea that any luggage that contained batteries even existed, hence my confusion.
> 
> Further reading on United informs me that I can't even bring a normal carry on cabin size bag in their very cheapest seats, but just one even smaller "personal item".
> 
> Time to dig out my huge overcoat with all the "poachers pockets", methinks...


A little late to the show, but yes they call that "basic economy".  The big three US airlines (Delta, United, American) have instituted it.  The one common detail is that seating is not assigned until check-in, or possibly at the gate.  There are also restrictions on loyalty points, upgrades can't be applied, etc.  But one will be assigned a coach seat eventually.   American allows seat selection 48 hours before a flight, but for a fee.  Passengers also get placed in the last boarding group.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/inflight/basic-economy.aspx

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/basic-economy.jsp

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/onboard-experience/basic-economy.html

I flew basic economy on Delta.  It wasn't that bad.  I was flying with a child and couldn't get 3 seats together at check-in.  However, the gate agent modified the seat assignment to place my child next to my wife.

Delta always had one included carry-on (in addition to a personal item) in basic economy fares.  American just added that.


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## seat38a

Not sure about DL and AA but UA makes it VERY CLEAR that your in basic economy with bright orange mobile boarding passes. Some people on the airline forums have alluded to United using the bright orange as a badge of shame.


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## railiner

seat38a said:


> Not sure about DL and AA but UA makes it VERY CLEAR that your in basic economy with bright orange mobile boarding passes. Some people on the airline forums have alluded to United using the bright orange as a badge of shame.


I think someone wise enough to pay the lowest fare, should consider that a 'badge of pride', not 'shame'.....


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## caravanman

I find it rather off putting to come across a "bargain fare" and then find there are lots of restrictions. I can manage to travel the world with just a cabin size bag, but just "one small personal item" is a bit of a mean allowance to fly across the Atlantic with.  

I guess they don't want "steerage" low price passengers to sneak on before those who paid a higher price, so a bright colour boarding pass stands out for gate staff.

Railiner makes the point that I was thinking, no shame for me in saving cash!

Ed.


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## jebr

Delta notes the basic economy ticket next to the seat assignment on the boarding pass. Other than that, I didn't notice any major differences in the boarding pass (and nothing of note, that I recall.) That said, I do have the Delta Amex, which gives zone 1 boarding even on basic economy and a free checked bag, so it's possible that overrode any glaring changes on the boarding pass.


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## Devil's Advocate

railiner said:


> I think someone wise enough to pay the lowest fare, should consider that a 'badge of pride', not 'shame'.....


Flying over an ocean in a middle seat with child sized legroom and luggage doesn't flatter my ego.  Let's see how see how shiny that badge of honor looks when you disembark from a transpacific or transatlantic flight.



caravanman said:


> I find it rather off putting to come across a "bargain fare" and then find there are lots of restrictions. I can manage to travel the world with just a cabin size bag, but just "one small personal item" is a bit of a mean allowance to fly across the Atlantic with.  I guess they don't want "steerage" low price passengers to sneak on before those who paid a higher price, so a bright colour boarding pass stands out for gate staff.Railiner makes the point that I was thinking, no shame for me in saving cash! Ed.


If you don't feel any shame in saving money then why does it put you off to discover your fare is cheaper _because_ it doesn't come with anything other than the seat?  These fares are the result of legacy airlines trying to compete with the new generation of bargain basement LCC's.  You can still buy the exact same coach experience as before at roughly the same (inflation adjusted) price if you so choose.  Also, if you purchase and pack carefully you can stow a surprising amount under the seat in front of you (see my link earlier in this thread).


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## seat38a

railiner said:


> I think someone wise enough to pay the lowest fare, should consider that a 'badge of pride', not 'shame'.....


If you got enough discipline to follow the rules to the letter than yes its a badge of pride I guess. But based on United's last financial report, more and more people are paying up for ancillary so the question is, what was the TOTAL price one paid in the end after you add in all of the fees and stuff. From my own experience at the airport, I've seen many Group 5 people forced to check their bags and pay for it because its not a personal item. Generally, there is no gate check waiver for Group 5 passengers so you'r going to be forced to pay for anything that does not conform to United's policy of "personal item."

So now, its a choice between having saved $10 dollars and paid $30 dollars to check your bag or you paid the $10 dollars and gate checked you bag for free or got it into the overhead bin. Personally, I think I got a better deal by paying the $10 extra dollars which also comes with the ability to select your own seat. Just because you saved $10 dollars up front does NOT always make it a good deal in the end after every dime has been added up.


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## caravanman

Devil's Advocate said:


> If you don't feel any shame in saving money then why does it put you off to discover your fare is cheaper _because_ it doesn't come with anything other than the seat?


I understand your view exactly, it just seems the "what you can bring aboard cut off points" for the cheapest seats are getting silly for long distance flights.

As with everything, one pays one's money and makes one's choices.  

I have a budget flight to Spain in the morning, only cabin baggage again, so I will pack with care!

Ed.


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