# Amtrak Mastercard on Chase site seemed to disappear.



## JATX

I just got approved for the Amtrak Chase card, but now I can not find the reward card on Chase's website. Are they not taking anymore applications? I call Chase tonight and they said my card was in the mail, so I guess it will be active? I don't see a link on AGR site either.

I am just curious if anyone knows anything.

Thanks

JATX


----------



## Ryan

It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:




No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.


----------



## SarahZ

JATX said:


> I just got approved for the Amtrak Chase card, but now I can not find the reward card on Chase's website. Are they not taking anymore applications? I call Chase tonight and they said my card was in the mail, so I guess it will be active? I don't see a link on AGR site either.
> 
> I am just curious if anyone knows anything.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> JATX


I'm pretty sure I couldn't see my account until I activated my card.


----------



## JATX

SarahZ said:


> JATX said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just got approved for the Amtrak Chase card, but now I can not find the reward card on Chase's website. Are they not taking anymore applications? I call Chase tonight and they said my card was in the mail, so I guess it will be active? I don't see a link on AGR site either.
> 
> I am just curious if anyone knows anything.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> JATX
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure I couldn't see my account until I activated my card.
Click to expand...

Hi Sarah,

That part I understand, but when you go to the link https://creditcards.chase.com/lp/amtrak I get a 404 page. Same with all links from Amtrak card to chase.Also, when you go to chase to see the cards they offer Amtrak is not there. Maybe Ryan is correct and they are going to a Visa card.

I guess I will find out soon.

JATX


----------



## SarahZ

Oh! Sorry. I misunderstood.


----------



## JATX

RyanS said:


> It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screen Shot 2015-03-05 at 9.05.33 PM.png
> 
> No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.


Hi RyanS.

I can't see the link. It says I do not have permission.

Thanks

JATX


----------



## NW cannonball

Never had a problem like this. 404?

Time to email AGR, Chase, your ISP and your OS vendor.

What you report seems unlikely, but totally plausible - sorry no better help here.

Hope you and your service providers get this sorted.

This from me, a 20-year tech support person who has zero clue about your specific problem, but I do know that sometimes ultra-strange idiocies happen.

Good luck, and best wishes


----------



## PRR 60

RyanS said:


> It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:
> 
> No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.


That bad link on the AGR site has been there for a while. I even advised our old friend, AGR Insider, about the credit card link going to the shopping portal, but nothing changed.


----------



## Gunnie

Interesting, it doesn't appear on Chase's rewards credit card lineup either.


----------



## JATX

Gunnie said:


> Interesting, it doesn't appear on Chase's rewards credit card lineup either.


I saw that too. Not sure where the link went.


----------



## Bob Dylan

I received an e-mail from Chase this week informing me that since my World AGR MC will expire in May, I will be receiving a New Card with the Embedded Chip.

It didn't say whether it would be a MC or a VISA, and had no info about fees, interest, AGR Affiliation etc.

Wonder if AGR and Chase have negotiated a new agreement?


----------



## Guest

With my usual horrible timing, I applied and was approved for a card last Saturday, when the link was still working. Will be curious to see what I get, when I get it, and what the terms are. If there is a conversion to Visa, I would rather have it happen now as opposed to getting an MC and then getting a Visa with another number a couple of months down the road. But if the terms are not as good, or the new user bonuses get "lost" in the conversion, that would not be a positive step. We'll see.


----------



## SteveSFL

Chase seems to be moving away from Mastercard. My Sapphire Preferred used to be MC and they changed it to Visa a while back. Since Sam's Club does not take Visa, I use my AGR MC there. If they change to Visa I will be upset.

I hope they don't plan to start charging an annual fee. But I wouldn't be surprised since there don't seem to be many rewards cards left without annual fee.


----------



## JATX

Guest said:


> With my usual horrible timing, I applied and was approved for a card last Saturday, when the link was still working. Will be curious to see what I get, when I get it, and what the terms are. If there is a conversion to Visa, I would rather have it happen now as opposed to getting an MC and then getting a Visa with another number a couple of months down the road. But if the terms are not as good, or the new user bonuses get "lost" in the conversion, that would not be a positive step. We'll see.


Mine just came today as a Mastercard, so I'll update my post if anything changes.


----------



## Bob Dylan

JATX: Was it a MC or VISA and did it have a Chip instead of a Strip?


----------



## Ryan

If anything, it'll be a chip and a strip, not instead of.


----------



## alben

You are right, the AGR card no longer shows up. Actually if Chase converts the card to Visa, there might be a possibility here to earn another sign up bonus through Chase. If another bank takes on the card, then will definitely be able to earn another sign up bonus.


----------



## me_little_me

I did a Google search using

Amtrak site:chase.com

And I found a link to the application for the credit card. Tablet wouldn't let me paste link here.


----------



## TinCan782

jimhudson said:


> I received an e-mail from Chase this week informing me that since my World AGR MC will expire in May, I will be receiving a New Card with the Embedded Chip.
> 
> It didn't say whether it would be a MC or a VISA, and had no info about fees, interest, AGR Affiliation etc.
> 
> Wonder if AGR and Chase have negotiated a new agreement?


I've got two more years to go on my AGR World card...we'll see what happens with that.


----------



## neutralist

SteveSTX said:


> Chase seems to be moving away from Mastercard. My Sapphire Preferred used to be MC and they changed it to Visa a while back. Since Sam's Club does not take Visa, I use my AGR MC there. If they change to Visa I will be upset.
> 
> I hope they don't plan to start charging an annual fee. But I wouldn't be surprised since there don't seem to be many rewards cards left without annual fee.


WIth the Visa / COSTCO agreement there will be more card issuers going to convert their products into VISA, trying to get in a part of the action.



jimhudson said:


> Wonder if AGR and Chase have negotiated a new agreement?


You hope they do, and hope the new agreement will fix all the problems listed here:


Include elite status. Many cards out there offer elite status with their co-branded credit card, including the Hyatt Visa (Platinum) and Citi Hilton Reserve (Gold). Amtrak’s lowest level of status, Select, doesn’t offer a boatload of benefits, but the 25% earning bonus and priority customer service line would be a nice deal sweetener that could convince a somewhat regular Amtrak traveler to open the card.
Up the Amtrak earning ratio to at least 3 points/dollar. Right now, the math just doesn’t make sense. There’s no incentive to earn 2 Guest Rewards points/dollar when I can earn 2 Ultimate Rewards points/dollar and then convert them into Guest Rewards points when it suits me. If they upped the earning ratio to 3 points/$ (like Chase offers with their Hyatt Visa card) or even 5 points/$ (like the Marriott Rewards Premier card), this would make the card much more attractive for potential applicants.


----------



## JATX

jimhudson said:


> JATX: Was it a MC or VISA and did it have a Chip instead of a Strip?


Just a strip no chip that I can see.


----------



## Ryan

neutralist said:


> You hope they do, and hope the new agreement will fix all the problems listed here:
> 
> 
> 
> Include elite status. Many cards out there offer elite status with their co-branded credit card, including the Hyatt Visa (Platinum) and Citi Hilton Reserve (Gold). Amtrak’s lowest level of status, Select, doesn’t offer a boatload of benefits, but the 25% earning bonus and priority customer service line would be a nice deal sweetener that could convince a somewhat regular Amtrak traveler to open the card.
> Up the Amtrak earning ratio to at least 3 points/dollar. Right now, the math just doesn’t make sense. There’s no incentive to earn 2 Guest Rewards points/dollar when I can earn 2 Ultimate Rewards points/dollar and then convert them into Guest Rewards points when it suits me. If they upped the earning ratio to 3 points/$ (like Chase offers with their Hyatt Visa card) or even 5 points/$ (like the Marriott Rewards Premier card), this would make the card much more attractive for potential applicants.


I hope so, it's no secret that my AGR card sits idle in my wallet while my CSP card gets all of the use. Chase doesn't care about this, but AGR would probably want to make it more compelling for me to use their card.


----------



## jtoddander

Based on all this chatter, I checked myself and also saw that all the application links have disappeared or been disabled. After googling the phrase "chase amtrak credit card discontinued" and see all the speculation that Chase and Amtrak have terminated their relationship I called the AGR customer service line. The rep I spoke with confirmed that Chase and Amtrak we're going their separate ways and that Amtrak was negotiating new credit card deal with another issuer. no word on Visa Vs MasterCard. BTW...as of today at least it was still possible to covert Chase Ultinate Reward points to AGR points 1:1.


----------



## Ryan

Given the amount of incorrect information passed out by AGR reps, I wouldn't treat this information as anything approaching reliable.


----------



## jtoddander

Aside from the fact that your slur against AGR reps is both unnecessary and tedious, I am fairly confident that she is correct. Her comments were based on internal email that had been forwarded to customer service reps. I think I will stick with the reps on this one, RyanS.


----------



## printman2000

As long as my chase reward points keep transferring to agr, I am okay with a change.

If they stop that, all my processes of accumulating points will be messed up.


----------



## Ryan

jtoddander said:


> Aside from the fact that your slur against AGR reps is both unnecessary and tedious, I am fairly confident that she is correct. Her comments were based on internal email that had been forwarded to customer service reps. I think I will stick with the reps on this one, RyanS.


You must be new here, there is a constant litany of stories from others and my own personal experience with AGR reps either enforcing nonexistent rules or not permitting bookings that are explicitly permitted under the rules. Sure there are some good agents (I've spoken with them as well), but given that a not insignificant number of them can't perform their actual job responsibilities properly, I'm not going to rush to trust them on matters outside of their core responsibility.


----------



## SteveSFL

In the event that there was any truth to the rumor about a parting of ways between Chase and AGR, do you think notice would be given prior to discontinuance of points transfers? In other words, would it be prudent to transfer points now?


----------



## jtoddander

I have no idea if any changes are expected in this area. I did transfer some just to be safe...as it is there are not that many programs that offer a decent conversion if they offer any conversion at all. I would fully expect that Chase will continue to service existing cards for the foreseeable future so maybe conversion is not urgent. I am neither attached to Chase or to MasterCard, my main interest is knowing what financial institution ends up with AGR and what enrollment bonus there might be,

Big institutions like Chase and Amex are always adjusting their credit card portfolios.


----------



## neutralist

Remember that when Chase is negotiating with KoreanAir they did cut off transfer from UR until the agreement is set. So now The card is gone, transferability could be next.

personally I would like AGR end up with Citi as it is my primary bank


----------



## Devil's Advocate

neutralist said:


> Remember that when Chase is negotiating with KoreanAir they did cut off transfer from UR until the agreement is set. So now The card is gone, transferability could be next.
> 
> personally I would like AGR end up with Citi as it is my primary bank


 I trust you're aware that Citibank has been busy shuttering their branches in numerous US cities and closing or selling off whole divisions in major international markets. These were operations that represented the most persuasive sales pitch for domestic accounts that leveraged Citigroup's global reach. Unfortunately the goal of simple international banking at the consumer level has been perpetually hammered by ever stricture regulations making a global reach less and less relevant. Meanwhile Citibank loyalty offerings have struggled to remain relevant compared to top tier convertible currencies such as CSP and SPG. As a result I'm having a hard time seeing value in their rapidly shrinking portfolio of consumer banking services.


----------



## jis

neutralist said:


> Remember that when Chase is negotiating with KoreanAir they did cut off transfer from UR until the agreement is set. So now The card is gone, transferability could be next.
> 
> personally I would like AGR end up with Citi as it is my primary bank


That will most certainly be the end of my using the AGR card then. I have foresworn Citi about 30 years back, and I am not about to change that just for an AGR card  AT&T Universal already foisted Citi on me once.


----------



## PerRock

JATX said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> JATX: Was it a MC or VISA and did it have a Chip instead of a Strip?
> 
> 
> 
> Just a strip no chip that I can see.
Click to expand...

Most US banks are still hesitant to switch over fully to chips. They claim they are doing it, but I have yet to see or hear of one actually switching their systems over. Part of the issue is that most small shops don't support chips, and so the banks would have to issue chip & strip cards, and then a few years later chip-only cards. Even banks aimed at intn'l travelers (ie USAA) are hesitant to switch. My bank, USAA will only give you a Chip card if you prove that your are leaving for a country that (for the most part) only accepts chips.

peter


----------



## jis

I find that the banks are even more reluctant to give you a chip and PIN card. They seem to be OK with chip and signature cards more and more these days.


----------



## Bob Dylan

If AGR leaves Chase ( never any problems, I have 2 of their Cards))or vice versa, I won't take the new card especially if its Amex,Citibank ( as jis and chis said) or Capital One!

Also, as a retired person, I'm not able or willing to pay annual fees,high interest rates etc.

My primary banking is done with a Credit Union and I'm very happy with their services. I also have a VISA card issued through them with No Annual Fee and Low Interest ( which I don't pay) which I will begin using regularly if the AGR Card goes away!

Hopefully AGR and Chase will continue to be partners, otherwise 'll miss the AGR Points I rack up on the AGR MC for sure!


----------



## jebr

I wouldn't mind a switch to American Express...I've had good luck with them as well. Maybe something like what they do for HHonors: one free card with normal earning values and one card with an annual fee that gives you mid-tier status and higher point earnings per dollar. Depending on what tier it would be and the annual fee, I'd be tempted by the annual fee card (an equivalent to HHonors might be S+, perhaps with out the United Club access, and double points on the AGR card for a $75 annual fee.)


----------



## Devil's Advocate

PerRock said:


> JATX said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> JATX: Was it a MC or VISA and did it have a Chip instead of a Strip?
> 
> 
> 
> Just a strip no chip that I can see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most US banks are still hesitant to switch over fully to chips. They claim they are doing it, but I have yet to see or hear of one actually switching their systems over. Part of the issue is that most small shops don't support chips, and so the banks would have to issue chip & strip cards, and then a few years later chip-only cards. Even banks aimed at intn'l travelers (ie USAA) are hesitant to switch. My bank, USAA will only give you a Chip card if you prove that your are leaving for a country that (for the most part) only accepts chips.
Click to expand...

USAA was a pioneer back in the day but now seem to have lost their way. That being said "most" banks have changed their tune after being caught with their pants down during major fraud heists hitting national retailers such as Target and Home Depot. It is in everyone's best interest to ban the swipe and move exclusively to the chip. The payment processing networks may disagree but they've been manipulating and inflating our transaction fees for years and I will shed no tears for an end to their self serving laissez faire nonsense.


----------



## jis

jebr said:


> I wouldn't mind a switch to American Express...I've had good luck with them as well. Maybe something like what they do for HHonors: one free card with normal earning values and one card with an annual fee that gives you mid-tier status and higher point earnings per dollar. Depending on what tier it would be and the annual fee, I'd be tempted by the annual fee card (an equivalent to HHonors might be S+, perhaps with out the United Club access, and double points on the AGR card for a $75 annual fee.)


Yeah. I would not mind Amex. So far, for me at least, they, by far, provide the best service. Of course, others experiences may be different.
Yeah, it would be hilarious if you could get United Club access through a $75 per year S+ credit card, where United charges $375 for their own United Club access enabled credit card! There is zero likelihood that United would go for that. And administering a different variety of S+ would add such complexities that Amtrak would not go for that either. So best that can happen theoretically I think is S status for a card with a fee, if the HH model were to be followed.


----------



## neutralist

jis said:


> So best that can happen theoretically I think is S status for a card with a fee, if the HH model were to be followed.


Basically a two tier model like the following:

-category bonus with no status for no fee

-category bonus with S status for a fee (somewhere between $75 - $125 may be)

And also AMEX can add status for their own product line:

- Include S+ status for AMEX platnium

- Include SE status for Centurion


----------



## Ryan

jis said:


> Yeah, it would be hilarious if you could get United Club access through a $75 per year S+ credit card, where United charges $375 for their own United Club access enabled credit card! There is zero likelihood that United would go for that. And administering a different variety of S+ would add such complexities that Amtrak would not go for that either. So best that can happen theoretically I think is S status for a card with a fee, if the HH model were to be followed.


Having little use for United Club access (but potentially lots of use for Club Acela access, I wouldn't mind the United Club access being only given to SE members and the card giving you S+ status and access to the Club Acela.


----------



## jis

The other problem that Amtrak will face in new York and Washington DC is that those two Clubs are not big enough to accommodate the additional clientele that a $75 access pass to Club Acela will generate. They are already a zoo in the afternoon. They will just become way worse. It might actually become worthwhile just to access the early boarding in Washington DC. Not so much in new York since the whole early boarding thing is a bit of a grey area in New York, absent a Red Cap engagement.


----------



## Ryan

Valid point - maybe tie status to the credit card + some large amount of annual spend on the card, or the status-obtaining fee card could bear a larger annual fee like the United product.


----------



## jebr

Agreed, Ryan. I'm actually curious as to how long the United Club access will be allowed with any AGR status...so long as both Club Acela and Metropolitan Lounges are included with S+.

(Granted, I don't have much use for either, but I don't think S is worth $75-$125/year...it'd be a bit like getting Silver status instead of Gold status with the AmEx Hilton card.)

EDIT: Saw the new post...while I personally probably wouldn't pay beyond $100 for S+, being in the Midwest, I could see them still doing well with a higher-end product.)


----------



## Guest

Lucky me, as I have AMEX Costco card AND Chase AGR card. Like some other poster has mentioned, I have swore off Citi after some disastrous customer service experience, so not excited about their tie-up with Costco. And I agree, please AMEX, step up to the plate and partner with AGR!


----------



## Slayer Essence

I would be happy to see Amex partner with AGR, or really, anyone if it meant the opportunity to gather a new signup bonus and hopefully revamp the rewards a bit. The only real negative is getting another inquiry on my credit report for the time being, but I'm a little more geeky than most in that regard I think


----------



## PRR 60

Several years ago when US Airways moved their card from Bank of America to Barclays, the transition was seamless. There was nothing for the cardholder to do other than login to a new website and start using the Barclays card. Even refunds that went to the old BoA account after the transition were properly credited to the Barclays account.

So far, AGR has not said anything official about this. Even the website still shows the Chase card, although the associated links go to the shopping portal. Perhaps they don't want to say anything until they have a new bank signed up.


----------



## amamba

I have a chip and pin card from Barclay. It is the Arrival Plus card.


----------



## Ryan

PRR 60 said:


> Perhaps they don't want to say anything until they have a new bank signed up.


That's what makes the AGR agent's story tough to put any faith in. If the deal isn't done, they're not telling anyone what's going on. Once the deal is done, there would be a public announcement.


----------



## me_little_me

Devil's Advocate said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most US banks are still hesitant to switch over fully to chips. They claim they are doing it, but I have yet to see or hear of one actually switching their systems over. Part of the issue is that most small shops don't support chips, and so the banks would have to issue chip & strip cards, and then a few years later chip-only cards. Even banks aimed at intn'l travelers (ie USAA) are hesitant to switch. My bank, USAA will only give you a Chip card if you prove that your are leaving for a country that (for the most part) only accepts chips.
> 
> 
> 
> USAA was a pioneer back in the day but now seem to have lost their way. That being said "most" banks have changed their tune after being caught with their pants down during major fraud heists hitting national retailers such as Target and Home Depot. It is in everyone's best interest to ban the swipe and move exclusively to the chip. The payment processing networks may disagree but they've been manipulating and inflating our transaction fees for years and I will shed no tears for an end to their self serving laissez faire nonsense.
Click to expand...

When I asked USAA about the chip card last fall, they said "no problem" if I wanted it right away and that all members would be changed over when cards expire. I mentioned nothing about going to another country.

HOWEVER, the chip cards at present are plain black and do NOT have the photo/signature imbedded in them. Thus I would trade off the security of an imbedded picture/signature for the security of the chip. I chose to keep my present card as instead of singing my card, I write in the signature box "SEE FRONT OF CARD FOR SIGNATURE AND PICTURE". Attempting to modify either would effectively destroy the card.

Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.


----------



## SteveSFL

me_little_me said:


> I chose to keep my present card as instead of singing my card, I write in the signature box "SEE FRONT OF CARD FOR SIGNATURE AND PICTURE". Attempting to modify either would effectively destroy the card.
> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.


Found this on the web --

*'See ID' against Visa, MasterCard rules*

Chris Monteiro, spokesman for MasterCard, says, "Technically, a MasterCard is not valid unless signed by the authorized cardholder. If a person has not signed his card, the merchant technically should not complete the transaction." The merchant can only complete the transaction on an unsigned card if the cardholder signs the card in front of the employee and then produces valid identification proving their identity, Monteiro says. The cardholder then has nothing to gain by refusing to write anything but his signature on the signature panel.

Visa's policy is nearly identical to MasterCard's. Visa covers this topic in its "Rules for Merchants" handbook. There is a section entitled "See ID," which says: "_See ID _or _Check for ID_ is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card, in your presence." And if the customer refuses? "A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted." The handbook then reminds merchants that if they ignore this mandate and accept an unsigned card anyway, they risk financial liability should the cardholder later dispute the charge.

Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/sign-or-write-see-ID-1282.php#ixzz3TwhlRUql


----------



## Gunnie

A post about the Chase Amtrak card, apologies if this has already been posted.

http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/10/chase-kills-the-amtrak-card-why-you-might-care/


----------



## JATX

Gunnie said:


> A post about the Chase Amtrak card, apologies if this has already been posted.
> 
> http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/10/chase-kills-the-amtrak-card-why-you-might-care/


Maybe it is a good thing I just got my card and booked a trip. Otherwise I would have missed out on a lot of miles.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

If you want to transfer CUR to AGR you might want to do so quickly. Chase has ended UR transfer partners suddenly and without warning in the past. At the moment the link is probably only good until the next AGR credit contract is signed (if any).


----------



## printman2000

Do transfer points into AGR expire?


----------



## Devil's Advocate

printman2000 said:


> Do transfer points into AGR expire?


To my knowledge all AGR points expire unless you have paid travel credited to your AGR account on a recurring basis. The perpetual longevity that the Chase AGR card previously provided is probably on the way out at this point.


----------



## jis

When Continental terminated their relationship with Amex and moved to Chase, they pretty much moved over the non-expiry feature as is. Perhaps AGR will do the same with whoever they move the affinity card over to. We'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## neutralist

Devil's Advocate said:


> If you want to transfer CUR to AGR you might want to do so quickly. Chase has ended UR transfer partners suddenly and without warning in the past. At the moment the link is probably only good until the next AGR credit contract is signed (if any).


Just transferred 50000 UR points into AGR as a matter of precaution.


----------



## me_little_me

Anyone contact AGR Insider on FlyerTalk? I could do it but don't want to burden Anthony with lots of messages. If nobody has, I'll do it.


----------



## me_little_me

SteveSTX said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> I chose to keep my present card as instead of singing my card, I write in the signature box "SEE FRONT OF CARD FOR SIGNATURE AND PICTURE". Attempting to modify either would effectively destroy the card.
> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.
> 
> 
> 
> Found this on the web --
> 
> *'See ID' against Visa, MasterCard rules*
> 
> Chris Monteiro, spokesman for MasterCard, says, "Technically, a MasterCard is not valid unless signed by the authorized cardholder. If a person has not signed his card, the merchant technically should not complete the transaction." The merchant can only complete the transaction on an unsigned card if the cardholder signs the card in front of the employee and then produces valid identification proving their identity, Monteiro says. The cardholder then has nothing to gain by refusing to write anything but his signature on the signature panel.
> 
> Visa's policy is nearly identical to MasterCard's. Visa covers this topic in its "Rules for Merchants" handbook. There is a section entitled "See ID," which says: "_See ID _or _Check for ID_ is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card, in your presence." And if the customer refuses? "A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted." The handbook then reminds merchants that if they ignore this mandate and accept an unsigned card anyway, they risk financial liability should the cardholder later dispute the charge.
> 
> Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/sign-or-write-see-ID-1282.php#ixzz3TwhlRUql
Click to expand...

Remember, THE CARD IS SIGNED. My signature is imbedded into the front of the card along with my picture. So it IS "signed by the authorized cardholder". More than that, the signature will not rub off or get washed away/become unreadable as what happens when the card gets wet.


----------



## newlatidude

*me_little_me:* It doesn't look like anyone has - or if so, they haven't posted in the FT thread about it.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

me_little_me said:


> Anyone contact AGR Insider on FlyerTalk? I could do it but don't want to burden Anthony with lots of messages. If nobody has, I'll do it.


I would imagine he can't say anything while things are "in the works".


----------



## amamba

me_little_me said:


> SteveSTX said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> I chose to keep my present card as instead of singing my card, I write in the signature box "SEE FRONT OF CARD FOR SIGNATURE AND PICTURE". Attempting to modify either would effectively destroy the card.
> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.
> 
> 
> 
> Found this on the web --
> 
> *'See ID' against Visa, MasterCard rules*
> 
> Chris Monteiro, spokesman for MasterCard, says, "Technically, a MasterCard is not valid unless signed by the authorized cardholder. If a person has not signed his card, the merchant technically should not complete the transaction." The merchant can only complete the transaction on an unsigned card if the cardholder signs the card in front of the employee and then produces valid identification proving their identity, Monteiro says. The cardholder then has nothing to gain by refusing to write anything but his signature on the signature panel.
> 
> Visa's policy is nearly identical to MasterCard's. Visa covers this topic in its "Rules for Merchants" handbook. There is a section entitled "See ID," which says: "_See ID _or _Check for ID_ is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card, in your presence." And if the customer refuses? "A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted." The handbook then reminds merchants that if they ignore this mandate and accept an unsigned card anyway, they risk financial liability should the cardholder later dispute the charge.
> 
> Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/sign-or-write-see-ID-1282.php#ixzz3TwhlRUql
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember, THE CARD IS SIGNED. My signature is imbedded into the front of the card along with my picture. So it IS "signed by the authorized cardholder". More than that, the signature will not rub off or get washed away/become unreadable as what happens when the card gets wet.
Click to expand...

That's not what they mean by signed. Your card is invalid without a signature in the signature pane on the back.


----------



## Ryan

AmtrakBlue said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone contact AGR Insider on FlyerTalk? I could do it but don't want to burden Anthony with lots of messages. If nobody has, I'll do it.
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine he can't say anything while things are "in the works".
Click to expand...

Agreed.

And reading FT is his job - if he hasn't commented on the thread that he certainly has read, it means he has nothing to say at this point. Pestering him with private messages isn't going to change that. When he has something to announce, I'm sure that he will.


----------



## jis

RyanS said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone contact AGR Insider on FlyerTalk? I could do it but don't want to burden Anthony with lots of messages. If nobody has, I'll do it.
> 
> 
> 
> I would imagine he can't say anything while things are "in the works".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> And reading FT is his job - if he hasn't commented on the thread that he certainly has read, it means he has nothing to say at this point. Pestering him with private messages isn't going to change that. When he has something to announce, I'm sure that he will.
Click to expand...

Wait! What? You mean people from AU are not extraordinarily entitled to know everything before they happen at Amtrak?


----------



## Ryan

Perhaps if we send him enough PM's he'll answer just to shut us up...


----------



## me_little_me

While I would not expect him to tell use "We are negotiating with ...", there is a lot that could be said:


Confirm/deny the info regarding the Chase card no longer earning AGR points at some [near] future point.
State whether Amtrak plans to try and find a replacement for Chase or intends to not have a rewards credit card.
State whether, given that the "rumor" of termination is true, what will be the effect on waiving the 3 year rule on losing points when there is no travel for current Chase AGR cardholders.
None of these should be detrimental to ongoing negotiations with a possible future vendor.

PS: I asked him these questions. While I don't expect a personal reply, perhaps it might trigger the idea that a little openness may not hurt.


----------



## the_traveler

printman2000 said:


> Do transfer points into AGR expire?


They do not expire per se. As long as you travel on Amtrak once every 36 months or hold the AGR credit card, they will not expire.


----------



## printman2000

Since we have no plans to pay for travel anytime soon and since the agr credit card status is in limbo, me transferring a bunch of chase points now has me worried. I unusually only transfer them to agr as needed.


----------



## Ryan

me_little_me said:


> None of these should be detrimental to ongoing negotiations with a possible future vendor.
> 
> PS: I asked him these questions. While I don't expect a personal reply, perhaps it might trigger the idea that a little openness may not hurt.


What makes you think that any of that information is actually available right now, or that we're somehow entitled to it?

When there is something that they can share, I have complete faith that Anthony will share it, but not before. The idea he has information e is at liberty to share, but isn't because he doesn't realize that we're interested is pretty disrespectful to him.


----------



## Rail Freak

Let's all lighten up , hold our breath, & wait a while!!!!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Having met Anthony I see no reason to be concerned over his ability to handle customer concerns in an efficient and professional manner. The ability to transfer points from CUR (or lack thereof) is a detail that may seem minor to some but is worth thousands of dollars to me and presumably many other travelers. Anthony is under no obligation to answer our inquiries but neither are we under any obligation to avoid asking for fear of annoying or distracting him.


----------



## Slayer Essence

I don't know if these links still work, but supposedly you can still apply for the Credit Card. It doesn't appear to come with a signup bonus, and a chase twitter quote confirms no new applications are taking place. But if you really want the card, these might be working for now.

http://theforwardcabin.boardingarea.com/2015/03/10/the-amtrak-credit-card-is-not-dead-hurry-and-apply-before-it-is/


----------



## William W.

Losing the ability to transfer from the CSP would be crippling. I'd probably have to stop taking Amtrak LD trains, for the most part. I've banked most of my points with Chase, and I'm not in a position to switch to another issuer at this point.

I love taking LD trains, but I can't justify spending large amounts of money for the pleasure.


----------



## pennyk

AGR Insider has responded on FlyerTalk:



> No new applications for the Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard from Chase are being accepted at this time. More information regarding the AGR credit card will be shared in the near future.
> 
> If you have the Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard from Chase, you can continue to use your card and will continue to earn AGR points. Nothing will change without notification from Amtrak and Chase.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Thanks Penny, looks like a New Agreement is being negotiated between AGR and the Card issuers! AUers will probably be among the first to know when new info is forthcoming!


----------



## jis

pennyk said:


> AGR Insider has responded on FlyerTalk:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No new applications for the Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard from Chase are being accepted at this time. More information regarding the AGR credit card will be shared in the near future. [/size]
> 
> If you have the Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard from Chase, you can continue to use your card and will continue to earn AGR points. Nothing will change without notification from Amtrak and Chase. [/size]
Click to expand...

Well, that should take care of that for now. Pretty obvious I'd say.
And yeah, there is no implication that AU-ers will get first dibs at anything either.


----------



## PRR 60

jimhudson said:


> Thanks Penny, looks like a New Agreement is being negotiated between AGR and the Card issuers! AUers will probably be among the first to know when new info is forthcoming!


All AGR Insider said is that more information will be shared in the future. That "more information" could be anything from news of a new card issuer to the end of the AGR card. There is no public mention that a new agreement is being negotiated. One could infer that, but he did not say that.


----------



## Ryan

Or a new deal with Chase, that's not off the table either.


----------



## NW cannonball

Just saw this thread.

What should I be panicing about?

Huh?

All my "points" will disappear? Doubt it.

Amtrak negotiating another deal -- maybe, so what?

Old info posted here about AGR credit card points becomes obsolete? huh. Happens all the time with these "reward" programs.

Whaat? me worry? (thanks A.E.N)


----------



## NE933

True/False? Which bank will pick this up?

Edit -- I see this is already on the AGR section, didn't see it before.


----------



## VentureForth

There is always the possibility that the program will end. Of course, they won't announce this until the day it may happen. Announce it now and Chase loses revenue immediately.

I posted this in the Tap to Pay thread, but recently had my AGR card replaced twice this year. The first time it was because it snapped in half. Received back the same exact card, same number, exp., CVV, etc. Then about two weeks ago, I lost it. When I got my new one, the expiration date was for May 2015, which was the same as all the previous cards. I though how odd that was, as when I've replaced other cards, they generally put the expiration date out 2-6 years.

Anyone with expiration dates past May?


----------



## jebr

Mine is August 2017.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon

Mine is August 2017 also.


----------



## VentureForth

Hmm. Wonder what will happen to my account in May.


----------



## PerRock

VentureForth said:


> Hmm. Wonder what will happen to my account in May.


It gets transfered into my name 

peter


----------



## Ryan

Mine is in 2017 as well.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Mine is June 2015 and I received an e- mail from Chase about converting to chip instead of strip but not sure of anything else? ( I also have a Chase Freedom Card and a Visa from my Credit Union).

Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card although I had one backin the day when Iteaveled on business and my income was a semi- liveable wage!

I hope AGR ends up staying with Chase, I've had no problems with the AGR MC except a couple of hacks and Chase sent me new cards and I had no liability! I especially like the no annual fee provision since I only travel for pleasure, mostly on AGR points or Paid Point runs!


----------



## jis

Most affinity cards have at least one no annual fee option irrespective of who issues it. I have seen such from MC, Visa as well as Amex. For example the vanilla HH card from Amex has no fee.


----------



## the_traveler

Mine also is August 2017, and I also had it replaced (lost card) last year I think.


----------



## the_traveler

jimhudson said:


> Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card


I'm in the same boat (or should that be train  ) as you - retired Fed on a fixed income. I got approved for an Amex last year! (Maybe the "Do you know who I am?" helped a little!  )


----------



## jis

Mine is Sep 2018.


----------



## neutralist

the_traveler said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat (or should that be train  ) as you - retired Fed on a fixed income. I got approved for an Amex last year! (Maybe the "Do you know who I am?" helped a little!  )
Click to expand...

Amex Serve? Anyone with a pulse can get approved for that too


----------



## me_little_me

jimhudson said:


> Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card although I had one backin the day when Iteaveled on business and my income was a semi- liveable wage!


Doesn't matter if you qualify. Nobody takes Amex any more. :giggle:


----------



## Ryan

Maybe it's encoded into the numbers on the back of the card. Every that posted their dates, also post the 3 digit code on the back of your card too*. h34r:

*Don't actually do that.


----------



## jebr

The back of mine says 666666666. How many demons do I need to cast out of it?


----------



## CCC1007

100111101111001000011010101010


----------



## jfeucht

Received mine about 3 weeks ago with a date in 2018


----------



## DetroitTed

me_little_me said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card although I had one backin the day when Iteaveled on business and my income was a semi- liveable wage!
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if you qualify. Nobody takes Amex any more. :giggle:
Click to expand...

Really?? Nobody??? That most assuredly has not been my experience. Just couldn't pass up making a comment. Wow! "Nobody", that's quite the declarative statement so easily disproved.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

DetroitTed said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt that as a retired person on a fixed income ( small)I'd qualify for an Amex Card although I had one backin the day when Iteaveled on business and my income was a semi- liveable wage!
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter if you qualify. Nobody takes Amex any more. :giggle:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?? Nobody??? That most assuredly has not been my experience. Just couldn't pass up making a comment. Wow! "Nobody", that's quite the declarative statement so easily disproved.
Click to expand...

Can you not see he was joking - hence the giggling?


----------



## NorthShore

I know of at least one business (a Chicago jazz club) which accepts ONLY American Express (and, of course, cash.) I suspect that is partly (aside from the fees) a way of saying, "We know you don't likely have it, so quit trying to use credit and just hand over real money." A fair amount of patrons end up running to an ATM.

Though, it does seem the opposite is usually true. Finding business which accept AmEx or Discover isn't always easy.


----------



## the_traveler

I find it hard to find businesses that take Discover, but many that take AmEx. Not as many as taking Visa or MasterCard, but it's not hard.


----------



## neutralist

the_traveler said:


> I find it hard to find businesses that take Discover, but many that take AmEx. Not as many as taking Visa or MasterCard, but it's not hard.


If they take JCB, Discover will work also on the processor network. (and vice versa) There are grocery stores that take only JCB.


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

I had an AGR mastercard, but I canceled after I got the sign up bonus :lol: hopefully the new card won't have a min spend attached to the bonus, but that tends to be pretty standard these days.


----------



## George K

Long Train Runnin' said:


> I had an AGR mastercard, but I canceled after I got the sign up bonus :lol:


Interesting. How long before you can re-apply and get the bonus again?


----------



## the_traveler

Why did you cancel? :huh: Just by holding it. You receive 5% rebate on any agr redemptions you make. You never have to even use the card! :excl: And your points will never expire! (My friend found out he had over 50,000 points, just because he has it!)

With Chase, you can not earn a second bonus for opening a 2nd card of the same kind. (You can receive a bonus for opening for exanple both a AGR MasterCard and a CSP, but not a new AGR MasterCard.


----------



## George K

the_traveler said:


> With Chase, you can not earn a second bonus for opening a 2nd card of the same kind. (You can receive a bonus for opening for exanple both a AGR MasterCard and a CSP, but not a new AGR MasterCard.


Yeah, I didn't think they'd be _that_ stupid.


----------



## jtoddander

Well since Chase is out of the picture the whole issue is moot. But for the record, under the old program you could get the welcome bonus Provided you had not received bonus in last 24 months. In other world you could have card for couple of years and cancel and then reapply. I should know...I cancelled my card a couple months ago and was waiting to April to reapply and qualify again


----------



## jtoddander

Hard to tell what might happen with any new bank...if there is a welcome bonus I assume there will be a minimum spend requirement. The prior requirement of $500 was pretty reasonable....but it could take months before amtrak negotiates a new marketing agreement for a new credit card


----------



## jtoddander

Also regarding Chase ...many of their other cards permit new bonus after wait of 18 months or so....alternatively you might try to qualify for the business card to get duplicate bonus...for example the United consumer credit card is considered to be a distinct and separate product from the United business credit card. You could qualify for enrollment bonus by getting both cards.


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

the_traveler said:


> Why did you cancel? :huh: Just by holding it. You receive 5% rebate on any agr redemptions you make. You never have to even use the card! :excl: And your points will never expire! (My friend found out he had over 50,000 points, just because he has it!)
> 
> With Chase, you can not earn a second bonus for opening a 2nd card of the same kind. (You can receive a bonus for opening for exanple both a AGR MasterCard and a CSP, but not a new AGR MasterCard.


This was years ago before they had the points rebate for redemptions. I'm not to worried about my points expiring if I go 36 months without a train ride there's bigger problems.


----------



## Ryan

jtoddander said:


> Well since Chase is out of the picture


Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.


----------



## jis

jtoddander said:


> Well since Chase is out of the picture the whole issue is moot.


Did anyone with any real knowledge of the affair say that Chase is out of the picture? Or is it just being surmised?


----------



## PRR 60

RyanS said:


> jtoddander said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well since Chase is out of the picture
> 
> 
> 
> Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
Click to expand...

Sustained. The jury will disregard the statement.


----------



## Ryan




----------



## Ispolkom

George K said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> With Chase, you can not earn a second bonus for opening a 2nd card of the same kind. (You can receive a bonus for opening for exanple both a AGR MasterCard and a CSP, but not a new AGR MasterCard.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I didn't think they'd be _that_ stupid.
Click to expand...

*Jtoddander *is right. I have earned two bonuses on both the Chase Sapphire Preferred and the Chase Freedom cards. Honest. My rule of thumb is to not apply for two years after I've cancelled the card before applying for it again. Chase has apparently forgotten about me by then.

This isn't really a problem, since Mrs. Ispolkom has also done the same thing. Our strategy, such that it is, is for her to apply for a card, say the Chase Freedom card. When she gets it, I cancel my Chase Freedom card. Two years pass, we reverse the process. I'm sure that in the fullness of time this will stop working, but until then...

American Express, for instance, finally instituted an absolute one and done policy. You now absolutely, positively (at least as far as I know) only get one bonus. Mrs. Ispolkom and I slipped under the wire before in the start date of this policy last year with our fouth bonus for the SPG American Express.


----------



## Bus Nut

I thought my points transferred automatically with my AGR mastercard. Is that incorrect? They always seem to show up on my AGR report in my email. :huh:

I've had this credit card a loooong time. (Gone through a lot of numbers lately though because of fraud in the past year.) Going to be weird switching to a new credit card.


----------



## Ryan

Transferred from where? The AGR card just earns AGR points.


----------



## the_traveler

If you mean the points you earn from using the card, yes they do. Such as if you charge $653 with the card, you'll see 653 points posted to your AGR account the next day.


----------



## jis

RyanS said:


> Transferred from where? The AGR card just earns AGR points.


He may be referring to a case where his card is replaced by another due to fraud, loss etc. Actually the points just stay in the account, and a new card is associated with the account.


----------



## Guest

the_traveler said:


> If you mean the points you earn from using the card, yes they do. Such as if you charge $653 with the card, you'll see 653 points posted to your AGR account the next day.


False. Points are credited to the member account after statement close, like most loyalty credit cards.


----------



## the_traveler

Correct! I left out "after the statement closing date" at the end.


----------



## jtoddander

Ispolkom said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> With Chase, you can not earn a second bonus for opening a 2nd card of the same kind. (You can receive a bonus for opening for exanple both a AGR MasterCard and a CSP, but not a new AGR MasterCard.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I didn't think they'd be _that_ stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Jtoddander *is right. I have earned two bonuses on both the Chase Sapphire Preferred and the Chase Freedom cards. Honest. My rule of thumb is to not apply for two years after I've cancelled the card before applying for it again. Chase has apparently forgotten about me by then.
> This isn't really a problem, since Mrs. Ispolkom has also done the same thing. Our strategy, such that it is, is for her to apply for a card, say the Chase Freedom card. When she gets it, I cancel my Chase Freedom card. Two years pass, we reverse the process. I'm sure that in the fullness of time this will stop working, but until then...
> 
> American Express, for instance, finally instituted an absolute one and done policy. You now absolutely, positively (at least as far as I know) only get one bonus. Mrs. Ispolkom and I slipped under the wire before in the start date of this policy last year with our fouth bonus for the SPG American Express.
Click to expand...


----------



## jtoddander

Ispolkom....regarding Amex. If you read the term and condition on Amex cards you will see that Amex prohibits additional welcome bonus points on PERSONAL cards. Business cards are treated differently...they allow bonus again after waiting one year.


----------



## shelzp

I usually pay my AGR Chase credit card in person at the branch because I pass by on daily walk and when I was in there the other day the teller said 'You're eligible for a different card so would you like to apply?' I've never had them offer that to me before. I'm sad because my expiration date is this August and I'm wishing it was for three years out instead. I have truly enjoyed racking points up so easily. Fingers crossed that another AGR card emerges.


----------



## jis

shelzp said:


> I usually pay my AGR Chase credit card in person at the branch because I pass by on daily walk and when I was in there the other day the teller said 'You're eligible for a different card so would you like to apply?' I've never had them offer that to me before. I'm sad because my expiration date is this August and I'm wishing it was for three years out instead. I have truly enjoyed racking points up so easily. Fingers crossed that another AGR card emerges.


Just for the heck of it, report your card lost in July and see what they do. I bet they'll send you a replacement card with an expiration date when they intend to switch things really off and most likely move everyone over to something else, unless of course Amtrak is discontinuing the AGR affinity credit card program completely.


----------



## me_little_me

jis said:


> shelzp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I usually pay my AGR Chase credit card in person at the branch because I pass by on daily walk and when I was in there the other day the teller said 'You're eligible for a different card so would you like to apply?' I've never had them offer that to me before. I'm sad because my expiration date is this August and I'm wishing it was for three years out instead. I have truly enjoyed racking points up so easily. Fingers crossed that another AGR card emerges.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the heck of it, report your card lost in July and see what they do. I bet they'll send you a replacement card with an expiration date when they intend to switch things really off and most likely move everyone over to something else, unless of course Amtrak is discontinuing the AGR affinity credit card program completely.
Click to expand...

My card was compromised last Friday. On Monday I had a new Chase Amtrak card. Same expiration date (2017).

While I am glad Chase is fast and efficient in solving issues, my loyalty is to Amtrak points, not Chase cards so if they separate, Chase gets a letter to close the account and I'll jump to the new Amtrak partner if there is one.


----------



## Bob Dylan

They're right jis, my AGR MC was compromised twice this year and I received a replacement card within a couple of days with new numbers but the same expiration date, 6/15! ( I also have a Chase Freedom Card and a VISA from my Credit Union))

I'm hoping AGR can work out a new deal with Chase since I have no complaints about their service, but my priority is the AGR points too since I don't need any more Credit Cards, especially ones with annual fees or reduced benefits!


----------



## jis

Actually I am pretty agnostic about who AGR chooses to provide the AGR affinity card. I am sure they will make arrangements to move over existing cardholders if they truly care about them as Amtrak customers. In the past when I have gone through such changes I just got a new card from the new provider without me having to do anything special. I would expect the same from AGR. As I said earlier, mine runs through to 2018. I d not expect to be using that card for all that time. I expect a change, whatever it is, to happen way before that.

Similarly my United card will likely change from MC to Visa, and I have one expiring in 5 months. So we'll see.

And then there is the Chip and Sign or Chip and PIN card thing coming up too.


----------



## Anderson

Mine is only good through the back end of 2016. I just called Chase to get a replacement card sent out, though (thanks to the use I've put on it, I've beaten the card up pretty badly in the last 17 months).


----------



## George K

Posted on March 10

http://theforwardcabin.boardingarea.com/2015/03/10/the-amtrak-credit-card-is-not-dead-hurry-and-apply-before-it-is/



> The Amtrak Credit Card is NOT Dead. Hurry and apply before it is…
> March 10, 2015 by James Larounis 2 Comments
> It was reported this morning by Frequent Miler that the Amtrak Guest Rewards credit card has been discontinued and is no longer accepting new applications.
> 
> It looks like that may not be the case…for now…
> 
> First off, according to a Twitter conversation I had with Chase, it appears they are in-fact not accepting new applications for the card:
> 
> "I’ve confirmed we are not accepting new applications at this time for the Amtrak Rewards card. Unfortunately, I don’t have more details."


----------



## printman2000

Anderson said:


> Mine is only good through the back end of 2016. I just called Chase to get a replacement card sent out, though (thanks to the use I've put on it, I've beaten the card up pretty badly in the last 17 months).


My experience says you will get a card with the exact same expiration.


----------



## PRR 60

My card expires this May. Typically, a card with a new expiration would come out mid to late April for a May expiration. It will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Bob Dylan

printman2000 said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is only good through the back end of 2016. I just called Chase to get a replacement card sent out, though (thanks to the use I've put on it, I've beaten the card up pretty badly in the last 17 months).
> 
> 
> 
> My experience says you will get a card with the exact same expiration.
Click to expand...

I've received 2 new AGR MCs from Chase this year due to hacks and both had the same expiration date ( but different #s) as the original, 6/15.


----------



## fairviewroad

My wife received a renewed AGR credit card in the mail yesterday with an expiry date in mid-2018.

Mine, too, expires in mid-2018.

If they're getting ready to phase out the program, they're choosing an awfully subtle way of doing it.


----------



## Rail Freak

I wonder why the AGR Site is still promoting the card?


----------



## VentureForth

Rail Freak said:


> I wonder why the AGR Site is still promoting the card?


Promoting with a divergent link. So they know you can't apply for one, but they won't say you can't get it.

Crazy, them folks.


----------



## PRR 60

VentureForth said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why the AGR Site is still promoting the card?
> 
> 
> 
> Promoting with a divergent link. So they know you can't apply for one, but they won't say you can't get it.
> 
> Crazy, them folks.
Click to expand...

Those AGR card promos only appear for members who already hold the card. Log out or log in as a member who does not have a linked AGR card (such as my wife), and there is no mention of the card on the site.


----------



## Ryan

More rumor, but from a recent source:

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/04/04/as-the-credit-card-issuers-churn/



> In an unofficial statement, Amtrak Guest Rewards says that their relationship with Chase is ending. I’ve heard this from two sources, but it hasn’t been stated publicly and could well wind up being premature (that the ink isn’t dry). For their part, Chase spokesman Rob Tacey simply replies,
> 
> We are not accepting new applications at this time for the Amtrak Rewards card.
> 
> (Amtrak promises an ‘official’ statement next week.)


----------



## TinCan782

PRR 60 said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why the AGR Site is still promoting the card?
> 
> 
> 
> Promoting with a divergent link. So they know you can't apply for one, but they won't say you can't get it.
> 
> Crazy, them folks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those AGR card promos only appear for members who already hold the card. Log out or log in as a member who does not have a linked AGR card (such as my wife), and there is no mention of the card on the site.
Click to expand...

Although they may not be taking applications for new cards, they (AGR and Chase) want current card holders to keep charging away!


----------



## VentureForth

So, that's fine. I suppose that change is inevitable. Wonder how long you get to stay with Chase MC AGR. Are you done when your card expires? Auto transfer to new card?


----------



## jis

VentureForth said:


> So, that's fine. I suppose that change is inevitable. Wonder how long you get to stay with Chase MC AGR. Are you done when your card expires? Auto transfer to new card?


That would pretty much be upto what Amtrak chooses to negotiate with the outgoing and incoming vendors.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

The expiration date is unlikely to play any role in when or whether you lose access to the points earning program. It exists primarily as a managed replacement schedule to help ensure the physical integrity of the card itself and serves to alert vendors and automated payment services of the absolute last possible date the card number can remain in effect. In terms of actual validity the expiration date is trumped by virtually every other consideration. It only comes into play in situations where no other factor has invalidated the card prior to expiration.


----------



## oregon pioneer

The ideal would be if AGR notifies us, when they are ready, that we will be receiving new cards that will replace our current AGR cards. No fuss. Like Jim Hudson, we are retirees on a small fixed income, and have cards from our local credit union. If all else fails (or in the interim between programs), we'll go back to using those. If we stop getting points with our Chase cards, back they go to Chase, with a letter.

The only thing that really worries me, is that Hubby says some airline (he can't remember which one) just flat discontinued their program for rewards points, and it was determined by the courts that the points already earned had no value. Pfffftt! Gone!

For now, I am just sitting tight and not buying any more points (already bought the max + bonus for this year, and redeemed them for the Big Trip next fall, ha!).


----------



## George K

oregon pioneer said:


> it was determined by the courts that the points already earned had no value. Pfffftt! Gone!


Yes. Sad to say, the IRS agrees. Though travel for business might be deductible, if you use any rewards for that travel, that portion is not deductible.


----------



## fairviewroad

oregon pioneer said:


> The ideal would be if AGR notifies us, when they are ready, that we will be receiving new cards that will replace our current AGR cards.


Yikes, no. Any new card needs to be on an opt-in, not an opt-out basis. I don't want to be signed up for a credit card until I have the chance to read the terms and conditions.


----------



## oregon pioneer

fairviewroad said:


> oregon pioneer said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ideal would be if AGR notifies us, when they are ready, that we will be receiving new cards that will replace our current AGR cards.
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes, no. Any new card needs to be on an opt-in, not an opt-out basis. I don't want to be signed up for a credit card until I have the chance to read the terms and conditions.
Click to expand...

You're right about that!


----------



## Guest

jimhudson said:


> Thanks Penny, looks like a New Agreement is being negotiated between AGR and the Card issuers! AUers will probably be among the first to know when new info is forthcoming!


I was looking at this Chase Amtrak rewards card before the applications disappeared and did not sign up.

I have a Barclays Arrival with free travel available and so I would have been better off using Barclays for the purchase. I was told the Amtrak rewards would have doubled existing rewards so I would have gained points on the credit card AND with the regular rewards program and if I did travel Amtrak frequently, I didnt do the comparison to the Barclays Arrival.

I dont really like additional cards and for many people he Barclays Arrival is actually more competitive than this Chase Amtrak card.

If Amtrak works out a deal with Barclays, perhaps existing Arrival customers could earn something extra for Amtrak or whatnot.

Amtrak should use Credit cards to maximize revenues like all other transportation firms. Even Delta and others always promote their credit cards. And work out a deal which is more favorable. Not disappointed I missed out on this card and I like the cards like Barclays Arrival which arent limited to specific travel firms.

As for the future, not sure what will happen but Amtrak can use numerous ways to increase revenue and could discontinue this card sucessfully. Doesnt even have to be a replacement card but individual agreements for promotionals with Visa or Mastercard, Amex or Discover and existing credit cards.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

George K said:


> oregon pioneer said:
> 
> 
> 
> it was determined by the courts that the points already earned had no value. Pfffftt! Gone!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Sad to say, the IRS agrees. Though travel for business might be deductible, if you use any rewards for that travel, that portion is not deductible.
Click to expand...

If the IRS had determined that loyalty points represented intrinsic negotiable value then you'd probably be paying taxes on them. #ThinkTwice


----------



## jis

Devil's Advocate said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oregon pioneer said:
> 
> 
> 
> it was determined by the courts that the points already earned had no value. Pfffftt! Gone!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Sad to say, the IRS agrees. Though travel for business might be deductible, if you use any rewards for that travel, that portion is not deductible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the IRS had determined that loyalty points represented intrinsic negotiable value then you'd probably be paying taxes on them. #ThinkTwice
Click to expand...

And then possibly write off value as points expire too. Oh boy, another two forms in the tax return.  Or points could be taxed only upon exercise to acquire something of value based on the value if the things acquired. This avoids the issue of writing down the intrinsic value of points. An additional nightmare either way. And then you get to account for granted points and purchased points differently for tax purposes too, and for the second case only the difference between the value of the thing acquired and the amount paid for the points can be taxed or tax refunded, whichever way the difference goes. Oh joy!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Fortunately for us AU has it's own resident Tax Attorney and CPA who lives in Florida and on the Silver Trains and works cheap!( pro bono) LOL


----------



## George K

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/a-02-18.pdf



> Questions have been raised concerning the taxability of frequent flyer miles or other promotional items that are received as the result of business travel and used for personal purposes. There are numerous technical and administrative issues relating to these benefits on which no official guidance has been provided, including issues relating to the timing and valuation of income inclusions and the basis for identifying personal use benefits attributable to business (or official) expenditures versus those attributable to personal expenditures. Because of these unresolved issues, the IRS has not pursued a tax enforcement program with respect to promotional benefits such as frequent flyer miles.
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=13pt]Consistent with prior practice, the IRS will not assert that any taxpayer has understated his federal tax liability by reason of the receipt or personal use of frequent flyer miles or other in-kind promotional benefits attributable to the taxpayer’s business or official travel. Any future guidance on the taxability of these benefits will be applied prospectively. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=13pt]This relief does not apply to travel or other promotional benefits that are converted to cash, to compensation that is paid in the form of travel or other promotional benefits, or in other circumstances where these benefits are used for tax avoidance purposes. [/SIZE]


But that might change: http://taxfoundation.org/blog/irs-considering-change-tax-treatment-travel-loyalty-points



> Gary Leff of the View from the Wing blog digs into hints that something is coming soon from the IRS on taxation of loyalty points. Currently, airline and hotel companies award miles and points to their customers and record it on their books as a liability. Tax is not due until the transaction is finalized when the customer redeems them (or the points expire).
> 
> Leff speculates that the IRS will want to change the timing to move the taxation earlier, perhaps when the points are awarded. He’s not sure, though, because although the IRS has talked about “changes to loyalty program accounting methods” as a priority for 2014, it has not offered any details about what it is thinking. The travel industry for their part sent a pre-emptive letter to the Treasury Department urging caution.
> 
> There are two reasons the IRS should be cautious here. The first is that the negatives of such a rule (potential chilling effect on successful marketing programs) outweigh the positives (the IRS gets the same amount of tax revenue, just earlier).
> 
> Second, and more problematically, taxing points and coupons when they are awarded rather than when they are redeemed means taxing revenue from transactions that have not actually happened (yet). If they never happen – if the points or coupons are lost or expire or are simply never used – it means a tax was paid on a transaction that never occurred.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

If IRS guidance on taxation of exchangeable points changes substantially there will be plenty of noise on the matter. It will not be something that slips by unnoticed. For as long as loyalty programs have been awarding points they have not been taxed directly unless and until they were eventually exchanged for a tangible good or service. Unless your favorite loyalty program begins filing 1099's on your behalf I wouldn't worry about it too much. My guess is that any near term changes will target large lump sum bonuses rather than incremental earnings.


----------



## newlatidude

oregon pioneer said:


> The ideal would be if AGR notifies us, when they are ready, that we will be receiving new cards that will replace our current AGR cards. No fuss. Like Jim Hudson, we are retirees on a small fixed income, and have cards from our local credit union. If all else fails (or in the interim between programs), we'll go back to using those. If we stop getting points with our Chase cards, back they go to Chase, with a letter.
> 
> The only thing that really worries me, is that Hubby says some airline (he can't remember which one) just flat discontinued their program for rewards points, and it was determined by the courts that the points already earned had no value. Pfffftt! Gone!
> 
> For now, I am just sitting tight and not buying any more points (already bought the max + bonus for this year, and redeemed them for the Big Trip next fall, ha!).


Although I'm well immersed in the airline FFP world, I'm not familiar with what airline you may be referencing. But in any case, it's not that the points have no value, but rather that most loyalty programs have it in their T&Cs that the miles/points you earn remain the property of the program and you as the member have no property right to those miles/points. They also usually have language that they can change or terminate the program at will, with no recourse by members.

Regardless, I don't see any reason for worry here. The possible change of the AGR credit card to another bank (or even ending of an AGR card altogether), doesn't indicate the AGR program itself is in danger of ending.

If AGR switches to a different bank for its affiliate credit card, the other bank wouldn't just send you a new card unless you applied for it - which would be a good idea as you'd likely get another signup bonus. As to how long your Chase AGR card would be retained as an AGR card, it would depend on what AGR has negotiated with Chase. From past experience in similar changes with airline FFPs, it could be a short time or a long time, hard to tell.



George K said:


> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/a-02-18.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=13pt]Questions have been raised concerning the taxability of frequent flyer miles or other promotional items that are received as the result of business travel and used for personal purposes. There are numerous technical and administrative issues relating to these benefits on which no official guidance has been provided, including issues relating to the timing and valuation of income inclusions and the basis for identifying personal use benefits attributable to business (or official) expenditures versus those attributable to personal expenditures. Because of these unresolved issues, the IRS has not pursued a tax enforcement program with respect to promotional benefits such as frequent flyer miles.[/SIZE]
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=13pt]Consistent with prior practice, the IRS will not assert that any taxpayer has understated his federal tax liability by reason of the receipt or personal use of frequent flyer miles or other in-kind promotional benefits attributable to the taxpayer’s business or official travel. Any future guidance on the taxability of these benefits will be applied prospectively. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=13pt]This relief does not apply to travel or other promotional benefits that are converted to cash, to compensation that is paid in the form of travel or other promotional benefits, or in other circumstances where these benefits are used for tax avoidance purposes. [/SIZE]
> 
> 
> 
> But that might change: http://taxfoundation.org/blog/irs-considering-change-tax-treatment-travel-loyalty-points
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary Leff of the View from the Wing blog digs into hints that something is coming soon from the IRS on taxation of loyalty points. Currently, airline and hotel companies award miles and points to their customers and record it on their books as a liability. Tax is not due until the transaction is finalized when the customer redeems them (or the points expire).
> 
> Leff speculates that the IRS will want to change the timing to move the taxation earlier, perhaps when the points are awarded. He’s not sure, though, because although the IRS has talked about “changes to loyalty program accounting methods” as a priority for 2014, it has not offered any details about what it is thinking. The travel industry for their part sent a pre-emptive letter to the Treasury Department urging caution.
> 
> There are two reasons the IRS should be cautious here. The first is that the negatives of such a rule (potential chilling effect on successful marketing programs) outweigh the positives (the IRS gets the same amount of tax revenue, just earlier).
> 
> Second, and more problematically, taxing points and coupons when they are awarded rather than when they are redeemed means taxing revenue from transactions that have not actually happened (yet). If they never happen – if the points or coupons are lost or expire or are simply never used – it means a tax was paid on a transaction that never occurred.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The second citation you link to doesn't portend a change to taxing the earnings of loyalty program members, i.e., not a change to the IRS statement above from 2002. Rather, it's a potential change to the tax treatment - or the timing of taxes - on the loyalty programs themselves. While this would probably incur more costs for the programs, and result in some sort of devaluation, it wouldn't affect individuals' tax liability for miles/points they earn.


----------



## Linda T

Chase credit cards do allow you to close and reopen accounts and get the bonus. We've done it with the Sapphire Preferred. It says , not available to "previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card [also business credit card for Ink] who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months."

I'm hoping that the Ultimate Rewards will still be transferable since I'm working on my spend for my Ink card. I'll be pretty upset if I spend $5,000 on it and get the UR bonus and can't transfer it to AGR. Worse case scenario is I can use the points for hotels I guess.  I assume that as long as the AGR card is paying the bonus they'll recognize the URs, but nothing's a guarantee in this life.


----------



## George K

Checked my balance through chase.com this evening. Here's what it showed for my Amtrak MC:




Where the arrow is is where it used to say "Amtrak Guest Rewards".


----------



## Ryan

It's still there for me.


----------



## oregon pioneer

I still see the AGR logo when I log into chase.com.


----------



## George K

Must've been a glitch, because I see it now.

Apologies.


----------



## CHamilton

Chase kills the Amtrak card. Why you might care…


----------



## the_traveler

It just said the card is not being offered to new cardholders, not that it was gone for good! And note that this blog entry was only for transfers to Choice Hotels.

Let's not jump to any conclusions yet!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

So we went from jumping to conclusions to grasping at straws. I guess you could say that the Chase AGR is a zombie card. It's neither completely alive nor completely dead.


----------



## me_little_me

me_little_me said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the heck of it, report your card lost in July and see what they do. I bet they'll send you a replacement card with an expiration date when they intend to switch things really off and most likely move everyone over to something else, unless of course Amtrak is discontinuing the AGR affinity credit card program completely.
> 
> 
> 
> My card was compromised last Friday. On Monday I had a new Chase Amtrak card. Same expiration date (2017).
> 
> While I am glad Chase is fast and efficient in solving issues, my loyalty is to Amtrak points, not Chase cards so if they separate, Chase gets a letter to close the account and I'll jump to the new Amtrak partner if there is one.
Click to expand...

Agghhh! Would you believe it? On the 16th of March, I got my new card. On Sunday, the 29th, less than two weeks later, the new card was also compromised. The first was used by someone in the Atlanta area at a supermarket while the same day I was using it at home in NC. The second was used by someone at a supermarket in VA on the same day I was using it on an AGR trip in New Mexico.


----------



## Lakeshore

Schrodinger's Card?


----------



## jis

me_little_me said:


> Agghhh! Would you believe it? On the 16th of March, I got my new card. On Sunday, the 29th, less than two weeks later, the new card was also compromised. The first was used by someone in the Atlanta area at a supermarket while the same day I was using it at home in NC. The second was used by someone at a supermarket in VA on the same day I was using it on an AGR trip in New Mexico.


So what shady outfit did you use your card with in those two weeks?  
I have not had my AGR card compromised in over 5 years now! They did proactively send me a new card after the Home Depot and Target fiascoes, but there was no misuse of my card even then.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agghhh! Would you believe it? On the 16th of March, I got my new card. On Sunday, the 29th, less than two weeks later, the new card was also compromised. The first was used by someone in the Atlanta area at a supermarket while the same day I was using it at home in NC. The second was used by someone at a supermarket in VA on the same day I was using it on an AGR trip in New Mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> So what shady outfit did you use your card with in those two weeks?
Click to expand...

I've had cards with more fraudulent purchases than legitimate purchases. I've even had cards that were used fraudulently before they ever reached my mailbox. Considering the utterly useless "security" features of US based cards I'd say the processing network itself is what's shady.


----------



## jis

I must just have been incredibly lucky then. In the last 6 years I have had exactly two fraudulent uses. I guess YMMV.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> I must just have been incredibly lucky then. In the last 6 years I have had exactly two fraudulent uses. I guess YMMV.


These days the bulk of the world's credit card fraud occurs in the US. In 2012 the U.S. accounted for 23.5% of payment card volume but 47.3% of payment card fraud. In 2013 the cost of U.S. payment card fraud was roughly $7.1 billion while the rest of the world _combined_ was around $6.8 billion. US consumers pay some of the highest transaction fees among industrialized economies, in part because our fraud prevention systems are a total joke. Vectors for credit card fraud are well understood. Lack of proper security features and heavy reliance on easy credit make US cards a uniquely inviting target to hackers worldwide. Massive data breaches followed by relatively minor regulatory fines are becoming routine. So yeah it sounds like you're one of the lucky folks who has yet to even notice there's a problem here.


----------



## PRR 60

PRR 60 said:


> My card expires this May. Typically, a card with a new expiration would come out mid to late April for a May expiration. It will be interesting to see what happens.


My new AGR card arrived yesterday, valid through May 2018. Now, that does not mean it will remain an AGR card for three years, or even three months, but at least for now they are still issuing new AGR cards to existing cardholders.


----------



## VentureForth

PRR 60 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My card expires this May. Typically, a card with a new expiration would come out mid to late April for a May expiration. It will be interesting to see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> My new AGR card arrived yesterday, valid through May 2018. Now, that does not mean it will remain an AGR card for three years, or even three months, but at least for now they are still issuing new AGR cards to existing cardholders.
Click to expand...

Ditto.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Glad to see this since my card expires in May and I have several monthly bills done on AUTO- PAY with the AGR Card!

FYI: my account closes on the 17th and my AGR Points posted to my account on the 18th!!!


----------



## NW cannonball

jis said:


> I must just have been incredibly lucky then. In the last 6 years I have had exactly two fraudulent uses. I guess YMMV.


I've had about 7 cards last two decades or so. Including Chase AGROne fraudulent charge back in the 90's .

"Lucky" don't think so.

"Prudent" probably.

Thinking the "card fraud" topic belong elsewhere, unless specifically Amtrak AGR.

Thanks.


----------



## Ryan

Given the number of breaches, yes, lucky is the right word for it.


----------



## jis

RyanS said:


> Given the number of breaches, yes, lucky is the right word for it.


Perhaps especially so since I have used some of these cards, but not AGR, since it charges extra for foreign exchange conversion, in very high risk countries like India, Thailand and Russia during this period.


----------



## George K

RyanS said:


> Given the number of breaches, yes, lucky is the right word for it.


Sigh...

Just got a text from Chase about my AGR MC.

Seems someone charged something on my card ... in Canada. Since I live near Chicago, that's highly unlikely. I've had lost cards used in the past, but nothing like this.

New cards coming...


----------



## TinCan782

George K said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given the number of breaches, yes, lucky is the right word for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh...
> 
> Just got a text from Chase about my AGR MC.
> 
> Seems someone charged something on my card ... in Canada. Since I live near Chicago, that's highly unlikely. I've had lost cards used in the past, but nothing like this.
> 
> New cards coming...
Click to expand...

In my experience, Chase has been very proactive regarding fraudulent use. Once with my AGR MasterCard and once with my debit card. Both times, the cards were in my wallet. With the AGR credit card, I received an email asking me to verify or deny a pending purchase. The account was closed and a new card sent. With the debit card, someone made a purchase at a location less than 20 miles from me. That notification was by telephone. The money was replaced pending outcome of an investigation.

BTW, Chase will not tell you what triggered the "red flag".


----------



## newlatidude

FrensicPic said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given the number of breaches, yes, lucky is the right word for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh...
> 
> Just got a text from Chase about my AGR MC.
> 
> Seems someone charged something on my card ... in Canada. Since I live near Chicago, that's highly unlikely. I've had lost cards used in the past, but nothing like this.
> 
> New cards coming...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my experience, Chase has been very proactive regarding fraudulent use. Once with my AGR MasterCard and once with my debit card. Both times, the cards were in my wallet. With the AGR credit card, I received an email asking me to verify or deny a pending purchase. The account was closed and a new card sent. With the debit card, someone made a purchase at a location less than 20 miles from me. That notification was by telephone. The money was replaced pending outcome of an investigation.
> 
> BTW, Chase will not tell you what triggered the "red flag".
Click to expand...

I agree, I've received (simultaneously) a text, and IM, and a phone call from Chase regarding suspected fraudulent use of my CC and debit card.

I've had fraud issues from all of my credit card issuers - Barclay's seems to have been the most common but it's hit all of them especially over the last couple of years.


----------



## trainman74

FrensicPic said:


> BTW, Chase will not tell you what triggered the "red flag".


Just a couple weeks ago, I had an unauthorized use of my Chase Sapphire Preferred card, and the Chase fraud department _did_ tell me exactly what triggered the "red flag": someone tried to subscribe to Spotify using the my card number, but didn't have the correct expiration date.

(Yes, they sent me a new card with a new number -- but the same expiration date, since they knew the fraudster didn't have that.  )


----------



## Bob Dylan

Chase has told me what/where the attempted fraud was the three times I've been hacked ony AGR MC! ( S.Cal, Brazil and India)

My Chase Freedom Card hadn't had this happen! ( fingers crossed)

I was sent new Cards with New Numbers rapidly, but always with the same expiration date! ( 5/15)


----------



## benjibear

I just had a bad experience with Chase fraud department. They called and told me the transaction that was fraud. I agreed and they issued new cards. However, I got a letter and it was a transaction that was OK. So I called and they told me they do not know anything about this other transaction and the transaction that was stated was what I told them was fraud.


----------



## Railroad Bill

Chase told us where the fraudulent action was taken.. Best Buy Gift Cards in New York..?? New cards came quickly. Hope the culprit is hung from a lamp post someday :angry:


----------



## jtoddander

Can we PLEASE stop all the credit card chit chat. If someone has new news about anew AGR credit card through Chase or any other bank, by all means post it. The endless stories about credit card fraud are not helpful.


----------



## Bob Dylan

You must not realuze how important Credit Cards are to travelers, especially CHASE Cards and how fraud is becoming an epidemic in this Country due to the 20 th Century technology were still using compared to the rest of the civilized world!

I'd like to see More info, YMMV!!!


----------



## JayPea

As has been mentioned so often at AU, if you don't want to read what's on a certain topic, feel free to move on to another one.


----------



## Ryan

***Like***

Chase has been good to me on the fraud front - I'd be perfectly happy to stay with them (and may, pending the status of Ultimate Rewards transfers).


----------



## jtoddander

To JayPea....the listed topic is Chase's decision to discontinue offering AGR MC. The topic is NOT problems people have with credit card security. I open this topic with expectations the info is relevant to posted topic. Site administration should migrate cried card security to new and separate topic,


----------



## jtoddander

To jimhudson...I do realize how important a secure credit card system....I've had many cards over the years and never had the multiple security problems people describe here. While there are systems issues that affect banks and credit cards companies like Visa, the cardholder needs to exercise a reasonable degree of discretion


----------



## Bob Dylan

To jtoddander: thanks for the info that I didn't know, since I've only traveled all over the world and this country for the last 60+ years and used many brands and types of credit cards. I am very careful with my credit cards and valueables and have never had a problem of this type internationally, only in this country!

Its only been in the past few years that hacking has become a serious world wide problem with the US being the hackers major target since this is where the money is and our computer security is third or fourth world worthy!

I'll repeat that, IMO, this topic is interesting and useful to all travelers. This is AU, not trainorders! If this topic is of no interest to you, don't click on it!


----------



## Ryan

jtoddander said:


> To JayPea....the listed topic is Chase's decision to discontinue offering AGR MC. The topic is NOT problems people have with credit card security. I open this topic with expectations the info is relevant to posted topic. Site administration should migrate cried card security to new and separate topic,


The topic is also not "What jtoddander wants to read in this thread" - if you've got a problem with it speak with the staff directly and stop crudding up the thread with your whining.

I'm sorry that we've wasted literally dozens of seconds on irrelevant information.



jtoddander said:


> To jimhudson...I do realize how important a secure credit card system....I've had many cards over the years and never had the multiple security problems people describe here. While there are systems issues that affect banks and credit cards companies like Visa, the cardholder needs to exercise a reasonable degree of discretion


I thought that this was off-topic? Some guy using the same name as you said it was.

What "reasonable degree of discretion" do you suggest to avoid breaches like the Home Depot, Target, etc, etc, etc.... Cash?


----------



## jis

jtoddander said:


> To jimhudson...I do realize how important a secure credit card system....I've had many cards over the years and never had the multiple security problems people describe here. While there are systems issues that affect banks and credit cards companies like Visa, the cardholder needs to exercise a reasonable degree of discretion


What reasonable discretion are you talking about? How do you know that others like Jim are not exercising it and still having problems? One single data point does not make for generalization of the sort you seem to be implying.



jtoddander said:


> To JayPea....the listed topic is Chase's decision to discontinue offering AGR MC. The topic is NOT problems people have with credit card security. I open this topic with expectations the info is relevant to posted topic. Site administration should migrate cried card security to new and separate topic,


Since when did you become a moderator? I notice that you are rather new here. Perhaps you should first spend some time getting a feel for the general tradition of this board before starting to lecture everyone about what the moderators should do? A little humility goes a long way in winning friends you know?

There is always the option to ignore the posts that you find not helpful, but apparently many others find pretty helpful, no?


----------



## fairviewroad

jis said:


> I notice that you are rather new here. Perhaps you should first spend some time getting a feel for the general tradition of this board before starting to lecture everyone about what the moderators should do?


Patience, patience. Our new friend must not realize yet that the only lecturing that is permitted on AU is the lecturing that AU veterans traditionally give to newcomers who dare to question the status quo.


----------



## jis

And evidently those lecturing about lecturing about lecturing too


----------



## Anderson

*sighs*

There's something meta about going off topic on a thread being off topic.

There's no harm in the chatter that's been going on here, but let's try not to have the thread devolve into arguing over whether it's off-topic or not.


----------



## jis

jimhudson said:


> Chase has told me what/where the attempted fraud was the three times I've been hacked ony AGR MC! ( S.Cal, Brazil and India)
> 
> My Chase Freedom Card hadn't had this happen! ( fingers crossed)
> 
> I was sent new Cards with New Numbers rapidly, but always with the same expiration date! ( 5/15)


The interesting thing is that I have not had any fraudulent use of the cards that I have actually used in unsafe countries, e.g. my Amex Platinum and my Chase United Presidential Plus, both of which has free forex conversion. The only cases of fraudulent use have been on cards that were used only in the US!

Of course as they say YMMV.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> The interesting thing is that I have not had any fraudulent use of the cards that I have actually used in unsafe countries, e.g. my Amex Platinum and my Chase United Presidential Plus, both of which has free forex conversion. The only cases of fraudulent use have been on cards that were used only in the US! Of course as they say YMMV.


The US is among least safe industrialized countries on Earth, whether talking about violence or fraud, so it makes sense that this is where you had issues. Forex conversions are essentially free of fees because the cost is built into the spread. The fees we typically associate with international currency conversion are implemented by the credit/debit processor on top of the spread.


----------



## Bigval109

Ryan said:


> It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screen Shot 2015-03-05 at 9.05.33 PM.png
> 
> No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.


What happens to my Amtrak MC when they move to Visa? Will I have to reapply for a new cridet card when that happens?


----------



## TinCan782

Bigval109 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screen Shot 2015-03-05 at 9.05.33 PM.png
> 
> No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens to my Amtrak MC when they move to Visa? Will I have to reapply for a new cridet card when that happens?
Click to expand...

Remains to be seen what will be involved with "new" credit card, IF that's the case. I don't think any of us REALLY know what is going to happen at this point anyway. For me, I'll follow AGR even if it means a new card.


----------



## William W.

Bigval109 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's on the AGR home page, but the link takes you to the points for shopping portal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screen Shot 2015-03-05 at 9.05.33 PM.png
> 
> No sign of it on the Chase site. Maybe it's out while being converted to a Visa.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens to my Amtrak MC when they move to Visa? Will I have to reapply for a new cridet card when that happens?
Click to expand...

No, you won't have to reapply. Chase will send you a new Visa version of the card, as previously happened when Chase moved other cards over to Visa.

That is of course assuming that Chase hasn't killed the AGR card for good.


----------



## Ryan

It may not be Chase doing the killing, AGR may be deciding to partner with a new bank.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Chase is huge in the loyalty credit game. In part because they were willing to outbid other banks for branded contracts and because they were willing to offer extremely lucrative terms and conditions for those who were willing to sign up for multiple cards. Chase has the most versatile family of convertible cards and an established portfolio of branded cards as well. As a result it's hard to imagine Chase would have much concern over losing or keeping Amtrak as a close partner. We're talking about a branded loyalty card that couldn't even manage to earn the underwriter a single deferred annual fee. My guess is that the AGR card failed to meet forecast metrics and Chase thusly offered a far less lucrative contract as part of the renegotiation. AGR must have balked at the terms and decided to shop around rather than renew. So long as AGR remains an active CSP participant my own needs will be met.


----------



## Ryan

Devil's Advocate said:


> So long as AGR remains an active CSP participant my own needs will be met.


Yep. That's probably the part I'm most closely watching.


----------



## Railroad Bill

Yes, it is time to pay the yearly fee for the CSP card and am hoping they do not dump AGR as part of the points program.

Wife is probably going to abandon her CSP card since we usually only use mine when we travel or spend money on meals, etc. But she is hoping her Amtrak MC will remain in effect or that (as you all suggest) AGR will transfer to another bank or VISA situation.

We anxiously await a decision.. :unsure:


----------



## Rail Freak

Me too,RR Bill. I wonder how long it will take to make that decision?


----------



## George K

Rail Freak said:


> Me too,RR Bill. I wonder how long it will take to make that decision?


Didn't we hear, about a month ago, that we could expect more information in about a week?


----------



## Ryan

From an aviation-focued miles and points guy. Clearly he was wrong.


----------



## Bob Dylan

AGR Insider posted in Flyer Talk that there was behind the scenes stuff going on and that AGR and Chase would let us know what was going to happen when they determine what will happen!

Until then the Chase AGR Master Card will continue to be valid for AGR Points as in the past.


----------



## Anderson

Basically there seem to be three options:
(1) AGR will transition to a Chase Visa after some shopping around. This is basically a side-effect of Chase transitioning to Visa (since Chase seems to be ditching Mastercard whenever it can).

(2) AGR will go with someone other than Chase. Citi, Barclays, and a number of other banks are possible issuers here. I could even see AmEx as a possibility (since they have enough odd-and-end cards as well). This does seem most likely out of these options.

(3) AGR will end up cardless. I find this somewhat unlikely, if only because notwithstanding VIA I cannot think of a major loyalty program that does not have a card.

By the way, assuming that there's no subsequent Chase card (I assume AGR can find another bank to work with in a pinch), what sort of notice would we likely expect as far as no longer getting AGR points/the card's benefits being cut? I ask because I intend to run the mother of all churns in that period if that happens, but if Chase sends me a card that doesn't earn AGR points (fee or no) I do not plan to use it (the Hyatt card is semi-useful in a subset of circumstances, but I have two other cards I'll prefer over a generic Chase card).


----------



## Bob Dylan

Just received my Renewed Chase AGR World Master Card with an expiration date of 6/18.

This doesn't mean that AGR and Chase might not come up with a new deal, type of card or a parting of the ways, but the blurb that came with it says that in addition to earning AGR points it can be used for many more wonderful things yada yada!


----------



## rusty spike

Yep, I got my renewed card a couple weeks ago with a 5/2018 expiration...looks like business as usual until Chase and Amtrak come to a new agreement


----------



## septaleon

I have made numerous calls to both Chase and AGR. Can'y get an answer either way except one Chase rep said it could be shifted to a Visa as many of their loyalty cards are going that way. I have more points than I am currently going to use at AGR so I would rather let the points sit at Chase Sapphire Preferred till I know the relationship has an end date. I just hope they give us notice so we can transfer the points from Chase to AGR. I would hate to have to go to another bank but AGR has already been with three other banks since the programs inception back in the 90's. It's a pain to have to constantly apply for new cc so I hope they stay with Chase.


----------



## George K

septaleon said:


> I have more points than I am currently going to use at AGR so I would rather let the points sit at Chase Sapphire Preferred till I know the relationship has an end date.


Is it possible to transfer points _out of_ AGR to any other loyalty program?


----------



## TinCan782

George K said:


> septaleon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have more points than I am currently going to use at AGR so I would rather let the points sit at Chase Sapphire Preferred till I know the relationship has an end date.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible to transfer points _out of_ AGR to any other loyalty program?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can transfer them to me! :giggle:


----------



## Ryan

septaleon said:


> I have made numerous calls to both Chase and AGR. Can'y get an answer either way


Why would you expect a CSR on the phone to know that which has not been decided yet?


----------



## George K

FrensicPic said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> septaleon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have more points than I am currently going to use at AGR so I would rather let the points sit at Chase Sapphire Preferred till I know the relationship has an end date.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible to transfer points _out of_ AGR to any other loyalty program?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, you can transfer them to me! :giggle:
Click to expand...

One in every crowd, isn't there?


----------



## septaleon

I just transferred 100,00 CSP points to AGR. As in the past the option to transfer points from Chase to AGR can disappear without any notice.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

George K said:


> septaleon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have more points than I am currently going to use at AGR so I would rather let the points sit at Chase Sapphire Preferred till I know the relationship has an end date.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible to transfer points _out of_ AGR to any other loyalty program?
Click to expand...

Possible? Yes.

Practical? No.

The conversion rates are borderline useless for all but the most unlikely fringe scenarios.


----------



## PRR 60

One direct transfer option is from AGR to Choice Hotels. The exchange rate is 1:3. If someone transfers 25,000 AGR points to Choice, you get 75,000 Choice points. If Choice Hotels are not your thing, Choice has a transfer arrangement with Southwest Airlines. The rate for that is 6000 Choice points for 1800 Rapid Rewards points. So, 25,000 AGR = 75,000 Choice, then 72,000 Choice = 21,600 RR. That would get a mid-range "wanna get away" one way trip.


----------



## SarahZ

Ryan said:


> septaleon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have made numerous calls to both Chase and AGR. Can'y get an answer either way
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you expect a CSR on the phone to know that which has not been decided yet?
Click to expand...

Seriously. Speaking from experience, the CSRs on the front lines are usually the last to know about any changes, even though they're the ones getting all of the questions.

And when the CSRs get the same panicky questions over and over and go their managers to ask what they're supposed to tell callers, they get a whitewashed, "Oh... there's no news... we're waiting to hear from Corporate/Big Brother/Whatever..."

It frustrates us too; trust me. It's not that we're hiding anything; we really, honestly do not know.


----------



## dballing

PerRock said:


> Most US banks are still hesitant to switch over fully to chips. They claim they are doing it, but I have yet to see or hear of one actually switching their systems over. Part of the issue is that most small shops don't support chips, and so the banks would have to issue chip & strip cards, and then a few years later chip-only cards. Even banks aimed at intn'l travelers (ie USAA) are hesitant to switch. My bank, USAA will only give you a Chip card if you prove that your are leaving for a country that (for the most part) only accepts chips.


That doesn't jive with my experience at all. Our new USAA cards came in the mail a couple days ago and they were, by default chip+strip.


----------



## jis

Indeed I have yet to receive a new card this year that is not Chip+Strip, but they appear to be all Chip+Signature cards and not Chip+PIN cards.


----------



## printman2000

dballing said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most US banks are still hesitant to switch over fully to chips. They claim they are doing it, but I have yet to see or hear of one actually switching their systems over. Part of the issue is that most small shops don't support chips, and so the banks would have to issue chip & strip cards, and then a few years later chip-only cards. Even banks aimed at intn'l travelers (ie USAA) are hesitant to switch. My bank, USAA will only give you a Chip card if you prove that your are leaving for a country that (for the most part) only accepts chips.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't jive with my experience at all. Our new USAA cards came in the mail a couple days ago and they were, by default chip+strip.
Click to expand...

Chase seems to be embracing the chip. Even my Freedom card now has a chip along with Sapphire Preferred.

Walmart has been the only place I have used it where it forces you to use the chip.


----------



## dballing

me_little_me said:


> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.


Customer-selectable CVVs would mean a preponderance of "007", "777", "123" and "666" codes in use. CVVs need to be randomly assigned.


----------



## dballing

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Mine is August 2017 also.


I have one with an April'18 expiration. Just got it replaced-on-expiration last month.


----------



## Ryan

dballing said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.
> 
> 
> 
> Customer-selectable CVVs would mean a preponderance of "007", "777", "123" and "666" codes in use. CVVs need to be randomly assigned.
Click to expand...

CVVs are determined by an algorithm and thus can't be customer selected.


----------



## me_little_me

Ryan said:


> dballing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only banks would use their collective head and provide a customer-selectable pin instead of 3 digit code and NOT have that number on the card itself as is presently done with the 3-digit code. It is amazing how stupid banks can be.
> 
> 
> 
> Customer-selectable CVVs would mean a preponderance of "007", "777", "123" and "666" codes in use. CVVs need to be randomly assigned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> CVVs are determined by an algorithm and thus can't be customer selected.
Click to expand...

I don't think CVVs are smart. Four digit PINS work better. And banks (at least the ones I deal with), allow the user to set or change their own 4 digit PIN to whatever they want.

By having to put the CVV on the card, anyone who looks at the back (like all restaurants that take your card out of site then return it) can write down the CC number AND the CCV number. Is that any better than a number (be it 3 digit CCV or 4 digit PIN) that DOESN'T APPEAR ON YOUR CARD?


----------



## Ryan

It all depends - the CVV guarantees that you're in possession of the card (or were at some point). Don't let anyone have your card and it's secure.


----------



## Anderson

Ryan said:


> It all depends - the CVV guarantees that you're in possession of the card (or were at some point). Don't let anyone have your card and it's secure.


Well, and my Amtrak card has an extra "accidental" level of security: I've used it so much that (A) I have the CVV memorized and (B) it has been rubbed off over time. So it'd be pretty hard for someone who swiped my card to use it online (presuming they swiped the card itself and not data I'd entered somewhere).


----------



## NW cannonball

Anderson said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends - the CVV guarantees that you're in possession of the card (or were at some point). Don't let anyone have your card and it's secure.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, and my Amtrak card has an extra "accidental" level of security: I've used it so much that (A) I have the CVV memorized and (B) it has been rubbed off over time. So it'd be pretty hard for someone who swiped my card to use it online (presuming they swiped the card itself and not data I'd entered somewhere).
Click to expand...

  Me, don't have big credit limits. Have Agr and CSP. Last fraudulent charge was - 15 years ago - more or less.

Follow the NSA and big banks advice. (look it up, I could be a scamster - look at NSA security advice for citizens, look at your bank's advice)

Check Scheneier and Krebs about how scams work now.

Heads up.


----------



## VentureForth

jtoddander said:


> Can we PLEASE stop all the credit card chit chat. If someone has new news about anew AGR credit card through Chase or any other bank, by all means post it. The endless stories about credit card fraud are not helpful.


jtoddander, welcome to AU. As a relative newcomer to this board, I find it offensive that you would come in telling us - many who have been here for nearly a decade - how to behave. As has already been mentioned, you don't have to read this thread. Pass over the stuff that you don't like and post something relevant.

But please, please don't lecture us on topic divergence then post something relative to that divergent line of thinking.

We're a pretty tolerant group here and mostly self moderated. There are times that we need help from "above," but for the most part, I think if you gently steer the converstation back to relevancy, you'll be surprised that it may just work.


----------



## jtoddander

Thanks for the warm welcome. But really, who is lecturing whom?

Several days before my own post, you will see that NW Cannonball also suggested that it might be appropriate to migrate some of the non AGR stuff to a separate topic. His post is from around 4/23.

People have pointed out that I might just ignore a post if I don't want to read it. True....but that is not the point from my perspective. I rely on the topic to give me an approximation of the issue being discussed. If topic suggests that thread will discuss fate of AGR MasterCard that's what I expect to find. If thread said that topic was credit card fraud and similar issues....I would never open it. I guess it is a truth in advertising thing.

The chance of future lectures by me is slight. I used to visit this site rather frequently when I joined last fall...not so much anymore. If I can't get info I look for I go elsewhere.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

jtoddander said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome. But really, who is lecturing whom?
> 
> Several days before my own post, you will see that NW Cannonball also suggested that it might be appropriate to migrate some of the non AGR stuff to a separate topic. His post is from around 4/23.
> 
> People have pointed out that I might just ignore a post if I don't want to read it. True....but that is not the point from my perspective. I rely on the topic to give me an approximation of the issue being discussed. If topic suggests that thread will discuss fate of AGR MasterCard that's what I expect to find. If thread said that topic was credit card fraud and similar issues....I would never open it. I guess it is a truth in advertising thing.
> 
> The chance of future lectures by me is slight. I used to visit this site rather frequently when I joined last fall...not so much anymore. If I can't get info I look for I go elsewhere.


I think they were suggesting you ignore POSTS within a thread. So just skim the posts in this thread and ignore the ones that obviously don't have the info you're looking for.


----------



## PerRock

I have to agree with jtoddander. In most forums I can be found in (including some I moderate) there are rules about threads going off topic. Essentially if a thread is taken off topic, a moderator will step in & enforce the staying on topic rule. What the mods do varies; I've seen whole thread closures, the off-topic stuff split into a new thread, or the off topic posts just deleted. Come to think of it, this is the only forum I frequent that doesn't seem to have any off-topic rules & threads regularly go off topic.

peter


----------



## Ryan

Feature, not a bug.

Topics are occasionally split off, or redirection happens, so it's not a totally wild west free for all.

However, the latitude given to let topics evolve organically is what drew me here many years ago after dealing with the near-tyrannical mods over at rr.net. If you're after tightly focused discussion, that site may be more to your liking. Everyone has to find the community that works best for them. This one does for me, and I'd hate to see it changed.


----------



## Ispolkom

This site has moderators who close and merge threads and even delete postings. If I don't like a post I report it to the moderators, and let them take care of it (or not). If I didn't like the moderation policy here, I'd go to a site with a different policy (*Ryan* suggests one). I'd never presume to tell others what to do. Just my $.02.

Obligatory Amtrak MasterCard content: Why is Chase moving away from MasterCard? I've rarely encountered a place that took Visa and didn't take MasterCard, and Sams Club is the only place I know that takes MasterCard and not Visa. What are the differences between the two networks from the point of view of the card issuer or the merchant?


----------



## sechs

Ispolkom said:


> Obligatory Amtrak MasterCard content: Why is Chase moving away from MasterCard? I've rarely encountered a place that took Visa and didn't take MasterCard, and Sams Club is the only place I know that takes MasterCard and not Visa. What are the differences between the two networks from the point of view of the card issuer or the merchant?


In general, Visa pays the banks better, and Mastercard charges merchants less. Mastercard has better acceptance internationally, although Visa continues to narrow that gap.

Both companies have been aggressive in getting banks to stop issuing cards in the other's network. I'm guessing that Visa cut Chase a deal on fees.


----------



## neutralist

sechs said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obligatory Amtrak MasterCard content: Why is Chase moving away from MasterCard? I've rarely encountered a place that took Visa and didn't take MasterCard, and Sams Club is the only place I know that takes MasterCard and not Visa. What are the differences between the two networks from the point of view of the card issuer or the merchant?
> 
> 
> 
> In general, Visa pays the banks better, and Mastercard charges merchants less. Mastercard has better acceptance internationally, although Visa continues to narrow that gap.
> 
> Both companies have been aggressive in getting banks to stop issuing cards in the other's network. I'm guessing that Visa cut Chase a deal on fees.
Click to expand...

That explains why Citibank is moving away from VISA.


----------



## CHamilton

The credit card wars have another player.

Nordstrom sells credit card portfolio to TD Bank



> Toronto-Dominion Bank (NYSE: TD) is acquiring Nordstrom’s Visa and private label credit card portfolio, the two companies announced Tuesday. The companies entered a separate agreement that will allow TD to become the exclusive provider of Nordstrom Visa and private label cards.


----------



## jis

Chase is not necessarily moving away from Mastercard completely. I learned this while talking to a Chase agent regarding the Presidential Plus Card from United. I was asking them for a chip card. The gentleman said that I could hold onto the Mastercard and get a chip card around July, or I could convert to a Visa card with exactly the same benefits but just a different number and get a chip card within 5 days. I asked him three times to make sure the benefits remain the same including the elite qualifying miles and he said yes. He also said that even after I receive the Visa version the Mastercard will remain active for a short period of time, and if I am not happy with the Visa I could simply revert back to the Mastercard and keep it and return the Visa. This is important because the Presidential Plus Card is grandfathered with its extraordinary benefits, and you cannot get a new one anymore. you can have one as long as you had one while a member of Continental One Plus, and have continuously had one since then.

I just finished converting every card that I have to chip, except of course the AGR which I cannot convert.

Oh and I asked about chip and PIN and was told to expect the same chip card to be converted to chip and PIN if so desired by very late this year or early next year.

He also said that the Visa version of the Presidential Plus will work with Apple Pay. I did not ask if there was any plan for the Mastercard version to work with Apple Pay anytime soon.


----------



## TXhawk

Consider this situation: you have have a Chase AGR card and your wife/or significant other has a companion card. You are on extended travel (let's say Amtrak), you check your Chase statement and you find a charge for Securus Phone service (this allows inmates to make phone calls on your account). Chase will deny the charge and cancel your card(s), send new cards by USPS in 5 days or expedite to your home address in 48 hours (if you are there to personally sign for them). Were you hacked because you are one of the 21 million Federal employees/retirees, shopped at Home Depot or Target in the last year, who knows. With Chase and AGR in extended discussion (now almost 6 months) you are in a situation impossible to get separate AGR cards to provide redundancy. COSTCO and AMX can seem to make an amicable separation, why not AGR and Chase? Oh, BTW, you should have a fraud alert on your credit reports.


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> Chase is not necessarily moving away from Mastercard completely. I learned this while talking to a Chase agent regarding the Presidential Plus Card from United. I was asking them for a chip card. The gentleman said that I could hold onto the Mastercard and get a chip card around July, or I could convert to a Visa card with exactly the same benefits but just a different number and get a chip card within 5 days. I asked him three times to make sure the benefits remain the same including the elite qualifying miles and he said yes. He also said that even after I receive the Visa version the Mastercard will remain active for a short period of time, and if I am not happy with the Visa I could simply revert back to the Mastercard and keep it and return the Visa. This is important because the Presidential Plus Card is grandfathered with its extraordinary benefits, and you cannot get a new one anymore. you can have one as long as you had one while a member of Continental One Plus, and have continuously had one since then.
> 
> I just finished converting every card that I have to chip, except of course the AGR which I cannot convert.
> 
> Oh and I asked about chip and PIN and was told to expect the same chip card to be converted to chip and PIN if so desired by very late this year or early next year.
> 
> He also said that the Visa version of the Presidential Plus will work with Apple Pay. I did not ask if there was any plan for the Mastercard version to work with Apple Pay anytime soon.


The American Airlines Aviator Mastercard (former US Airways card by Barclays) converted to chip & pin earlier this year. It was issued with the conversion from US to AA. I was surprised to get a new Chase UA Visa card a couple of weeks ago and find it is chip only with no associated pin. Kind of half a loaf.
As for the Amtrak Chase issue, I wonder if the recent increase in the cost of retail purchased AGR points is an indicator of the issue with Chase. Perhaps AGR went to Chase wanting a similar increase in what they pay for the points issued for card use. Chase may have balked and is fulfilling the remainder of its contract and AGR is looking for a new vendor. Just my speculation.

Apple Pay has been a major disappointment for me. So few merchants take it that I can't rely on it. Even when I find one that does take it, my transaction failure rate is about 50%. I've all but given up on it.


----------



## George K

jis said:


> Chase is not necessarily moving away from Mastercard completely.


Is there really any difference between Mastercard and Visa?


----------



## me_little_me

George K said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chase is not necessarily moving away from Mastercard completely.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there really any difference between Mastercard and Visa?
Click to expand...

The logo.


----------



## TinCan782

Waaaaay back when, Visa was BankAmericard (Bank of America), MasterCharge (Card) was everyone else.


----------

