# Is SWC worth it between ABQ and LAX?



## Traveler (Apr 12, 2016)

I'm deciding between flying or taking the train between ABQ and LAX.

I understand that Raton Pass is the thing to see on this route, but the train will have already passed that once it reaches ABQ. I'm also disappointed that most of the travel between ABQ and LAX will occur during evening hours, limiting viewing opportunities.

Anyhow, I'm looking for insight from folks who have done this route and think it is worthwhile to do. I usually travel in a sleeper, but I will be doing coach this time.

Thanks.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 12, 2016)

I live in Albuquerque and have taken SWC - LAX round trip three times in the past three years.

Much of what you'll see west of ABQ _until sunset_ is flat, empty, high desert land. SWC arrives in L.A. early in the A.M., so not a lot to see in the morning either.

The barren landscape can be beautiful if you've never seen it before but, living here, I find a good book of more interest during those hours.

That said, I love taking the train and hope to ride this route again.

Just my personal opinion, of course.


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## KmH (Apr 12, 2016)

I've always found the scenery between ABQ and Gallup very nice to look at.

Sunset in Gallup this time of year is at about 7 PM which is when the SWC is scheduled to arrive there.

The moon will be full on April 22.

A full moon always rises in the East at sunset.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 12, 2016)

Traveler said:


> I'm deciding between flying or taking the train between ABQ and LAX. I understand that Raton Pass is the thing to see on this route, but the train will have already passed that once it reaches ABQ. I'm also disappointed that most of the travel between ABQ and LAX will occur during evening hours, limiting viewing opportunities. Anyhow, I'm looking for insight from folks who have done this route and think it is worthwhile to do. I usually travel in a sleeper, but I will be doing coach this time.


As you mentioned it's mostly at night and sleeping in an Amtrak coach seat isn't pleasant or comfortable for me. That being the case I'd probably fly. If this were a daytime trip I'd probably take the train.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 12, 2016)

KmH said:


> I've always found the scenery between ABQ and Gallup very nice to look at.
> 
> Sunset in Gallup this time of year is at about 7 PM which is when the SWC is scheduled to arrive there.
> 
> ...


I was not aware of that. Does _every_ full moon rise in the East at sunset?


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## Traveler (Apr 12, 2016)

Many thanks. I'd be traveling on April 25, not too far off the full moon date of April 22!

I think the trip would have been worth it if I had more travel time during the day.


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## willem (Apr 12, 2016)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > A full moon always rises in the East at sunset.
> ...


Yes. The moon is full because it is opposite the sun. When the sun is setting on one horizon, the moon is rising on the other.

If the moon were not opposite the sun, then the part facing us would not appear fully illuminated, and therefore the moon would not be not full.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 12, 2016)

When we did LA to ABQ, we got a Roomette (vs Coach) and left it in daytime mode...enjoyed the AZ and NM scenery when daylight was available each way.


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## KmH (Apr 13, 2016)

willem said:


> crabby_appleton1950 said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...


Yep.

Here is a mind bender for you to ponder - A day on the planet Venus is longer than a year on Venus.

Plus Venus is the only planet in our solar system that rotates from east to west on it's axis (clockwise).

So on Venus the Sun rises in the west and sets in the East, if anyone on Venus could see the Sun through the complete, constant, and very thick cloud cover.

Venus completes one orbit around the Sun (a Venus year) every 224.7 Earth days.

Venus rotates once on it's axis (a Venus day) every 243 Earth days—the slowest rotation of any solar system planet @ about 4 mph at it's equator. Earth's equator rotates at about 1,040 mph.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus#Orbit_and_rotation


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## the_traveler (Apr 13, 2016)

If the moon would rise in the WEST, then I'd be really worried!  :giggle:


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## GG-1 (Apr 13, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> If the moon would rise in the WEST, then I'd be really worried!  :giggle:


I am a stagehand,the moon rises where I set it 

Aloha


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## willem (Apr 13, 2016)

Continuing on the Venus theme, Venus is brightest when it is a crescent. When Venus is full, it is on the opposite side of the sun, and the light must travel a much longer distance to get from Venus to Earth. (Of course, when Venus is truly full, the sun is between Venus and Earth, so I'm talking about Venus being almost full.) When Venus is a crescent, it is because it is close to the line from the sun to Earth, and the light has a much shorter path. Although a much smaller fraction of Venus is illuminated, it appears brighter because it is so much closer.


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## KmH (Apr 13, 2016)

When Venus is on the other side of the Sun from us and fully lit it is also very much smaller in the sky.

I don't know how much the apparent surface area is when compared between the close bright crescent Venus and the dimmer fully lit by further away Venus.

But I suspect the crescent has more surface area than a fully lit Venus opposite the Sun from us.

The inverse square law says that if the distance away a light is is doubled the light energy diminishes as a square function - 4 fold or 1/4, not 1/2.

Double the distance again and the reduction in light energy is 16x less, 4 squared.


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## the_traveler (Apr 13, 2016)

The reason the moon can cause a total solar eclipse - even though it's 30 times smaller than the sun - is because it's also 30 times closer to the earth than the sun is. So size does not really matter.

But we are really getting off topic here from the original question asked by the guest.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 13, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> The reason the moon can cause a total solar eclipse - even though it's 30 times smaller than the sun - is because it's also 30 times closer to the earth than the sun is. So size does not really matter.
> 
> *But we are really getting off topic here from the original question asked by the guest*.


Yes and no. I watched the lunar eclipse while on the SWC between ABQ and LAX - yeah, even though it was 3 am (I guess I was still on eastern time :giggle: )

I know at least two others who watched the same lunar eclipse from the CZ.


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## seat38a (Apr 13, 2016)

I was actually thinking about doing this trip as well on the SWC. Is there breakfast before arrival into LAUS? There is dinner from what I have read leaving LAUS.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 13, 2016)

seat38a said:


> I was actually thinking about doing this trip as well on the SWC. Is there breakfast before arrival into LAUS? There is dinner from what I have read leaving LAUS.


A modified breakfast (not the full menu).


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## the_traveler (Apr 13, 2016)

And VERY early - like at 5 am!


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## Train (Apr 13, 2016)

So is the consensus that Albuquerque to Los Angeles just isn't worth it? For sights, just doesn't sound like it.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 14, 2016)

For me, regardless of sights, I'd take the train over flying. I'll budget the time into the overall trip.


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## ehbowen (Apr 14, 2016)

West of Albuquerque you will experience essentially the only 90 mph running to be found in North America on a 95% freight traffic railroad. And I have the GPS capture to prove it...

BTW, while breakfast into LA is served at 5 am, it will feel like 6 am to passengers originating in New Mexico due to the time change.


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## seat38a (Apr 14, 2016)

FrensicPic said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> > I was actually thinking about doing this trip as well on the SWC. Is there breakfast before arrival into LAUS? There is dinner from what I have read leaving LAUS.
> ...


So no eggs and only things that can be nuked?


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 14, 2016)

seat38a said:


> FrensicPic said:
> 
> 
> > seat38a said:
> ...


I'm pretty sure I got my scrambled eggs in 2014. Since I always get that I'd think I'd remember if it was different that morning.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 14, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> > FrensicPic said:
> ...


A little better than nuked food....IIRC they had an omlet available, perhaps the French Toast, and something else. Its a simplified menu ... several items from the regular breakfast menu. And yes, it starts earlier than usual and is not announced (except that the time is announced the night prior before quiet hours begin).


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## willem (Apr 14, 2016)

I was reading about freighter crossings to get to Europe. One site had a FAQ page. (I have truncated the answer to the quoted question.)



> *What do you do on a freighter? Isn't it boring?*
> If you entertain such a question, the answer will undoubtedly be "yes!"


I think the same concept applies here. I'm with FrensicPic; I would take the train, and I would not entertain the question of whether it was worth it.

Anyone interested in the Venus digression (and more generally, the astronomical digressions) from a few posts earlier might want to look at the Astronomy Picture of the Day for today. It shows a full Venus being obscured by a crescent moon.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 14, 2016)

ehbowen said:


> BTW, while breakfast into LA is served at 5 am, it will feel like 6 am to passengers originating in New Mexico due to the time change.


So when I set my alarm for 5:00AM will it still "feel" dark outside?



FrensicPic said:


> A little better than nuked food....IIRC they had an omlet available, perhaps the French Toast, and something else. Its a simplified menu ... several items from the regular breakfast menu. And yes, it starts earlier than usual and is not announced (except that the time is announced the night prior before quiet hours begin).


On my trips the limited breakfast menu was typically limited to Scrambled Eggs and Continental Breakfast. I don't eat cold cereal or porridge and Amtrak's scrambled eggs are dry and bland to my palate so I generally skip it.



willem said:


> I would take the train, and I would not entertain the question of whether it was worth it.


Which is why AU sometimes sounds like a group of delusional Stockholm syndrome nutters. If you're not willing to entertain the OP's question why bother responding?


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## willem (Apr 14, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> willem said:
> 
> 
> > I would take the train, and I would not entertain the question of whether it was worth it.
> ...


The OP wondered about taking the train. I implied that someone who wonders about taking the train perhaps wouldn't be happy on the train.

I didn't say that it wasn't a fair question. I said it didn't apply to me. I said the person who asked it would likely have a different experience than I would.

Yes, I'm at least a borderline delusional Stockholm syndrome nutter.

Given all that, how do you think I should have responded?


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## OP (Apr 14, 2016)

OP here. Thanks for all the replies.

Perhaps I should add additional context: I'm an avid Amtrak traveler (have done Capitol Limited, Cardinal, Zephyr (x2), Texas Eagle, Coast Starlight, and Sunset Limited). All in roomettes. I'm also an AGR member and have the no-fee credit card. I love to travel on Amtrak.

In the instant case, I have free air travel that will expire and so my options are (1) return to LAX on free air travel or (2) travel on the SWC in coach [traveling in a roomette doesn't seem worth it]. I would gladly give up my air travel to travel by train. However, what I am trying to assess is whether it is worth doing so.

Is it worth the 4 hours of sunlight after departing ABQ and the three hours of sunlight the next morning?

For anyone who has traveled this route in coach during weekdays, is coach usually full between ABQ and LAX? This trip becomes more attractive if I can spread out across two seats.

ehbowen pointed out that after ABQ, there's a stretch in which the train travels at 90mph. That's awesome and a plus in my book.

More insight from members who have actually done this route and can add their perspective is much appreciated.


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## CCC1007 (Apr 14, 2016)

It's a bit more than a stretch, as it is pretty much from the point that the chief rejoins the BNSF transcontinental railroad line until the tracks are at the top of the cajon pass.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 14, 2016)

If the flight is Free there's no contest! Paying to ride LD Coach overnight between ABQ and LAX isn't even close in this race IMO!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 14, 2016)

OP said:


> I have free air travel that will expire and so my options are (1) return to LAX on free air travel or (2) travel on the SWC in coach [traveling in a roomette doesn't seem worth it]. I would gladly give up my air travel to travel by train. However, what I am trying to assess is whether it is worth doing so.


I'm fond of Northern Arizona and I've enjoyed riding the SWC many times but I honestly would not give up free airfare just to ride in coach at night on Amtrak. Not enough to see and the seats are not comfortable enough for me to achieve useful sleep. The four hours of sunlight after ABQ assumes the train is on time and Amtrak can be hit or miss on schedule keeping. As for the 90MPH running it honestly doesn't look or feel that much different than the speeds any other Amtrak route can reach (often just shy of 80MPH). The only perceptible change I noticed was that passing freight trains made more noise. If it's about the sense of speed more than the speed itself I've experienced much higher thrills traveling much slower over far worse track.



CCC1007 said:


> It's a bit more than a stretch, as it is pretty much from the point that the chief rejoins the BNSF transcontinental railroad line until the tracks are at the top of the cajon pass.


These details may have changed over time but this should give an idea of where the fastest track is located.







willem said:


> Given all that, how do you think I should have responded?


If someone asks if A is better than B and you reply that you _never_ consider A and _always_ choose B, then what sort of knowledge is gained by that? Seems like it would be more sensible to just list whatever you thought were the benefits of taking the train over a taking a flight or vice versa.


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## chakk (Apr 14, 2016)

When I wore a younger man's clothes, I once drove in one day from Albuquerque to West LA. I think it was 800 miles on the Interstate. Never again.


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## NW cannonball (Apr 22, 2016)

OP said:


> OP here. Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> Perhaps I should add additional context: I'm an avid Amtrak traveler (have done Capitol Limited, Cardinal, Zephyr (x2), Texas Eagle, Coast Starlight, and Sunset Limited). All in roomettes. I'm also an AGR member and have the no-fee credit card. I love to travel on Amtrak.
> 
> ...


I've done this route twice in the last 3 years, once in coach (boarding at Flagstaff) once in roomette boarding at ABQ.

Coach got really crowded between Flag and the Grand Canyon connections (Williams? Needles?, dunno) after that, I had a seat to myself and sleepily enjoyed the stretch through San Berdoo and approach to LA. One of the best things for me, riding Amtrak, is seeing the back yards and the industrial areas, gets me in touch with what it's like to live there.

Between ABQ and Flag -- well -- it's classic SW scenery, if you're into scenery. I liked it, because so different from the Northwest and Northeast. YMMV.


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## neroden (Apr 23, 2016)

Traveler said:


> I'm deciding between flying or taking the train between ABQ and LAX.
> 
> I understand that Raton Pass is the thing to see on this route, but the train will have already passed that once it reaches ABQ. I'm also disappointed that most of the travel between ABQ and LAX will occur during evening hours, limiting viewing opportunities.
> 
> ...


I think ABQ-LAX is beautiful, westbound. The desert in the evening. Lovely. Beautiful for photos. Eastbound it's the desert in the morning, which has its own charms. You can see for many many miles, mesas in the distance. And you're going fast. It's quite an experience.

Raton Pass is nothing to look at, really. I found the desert west of ABQ far more scenic. But tastes vary.

Of course it gets boring once the sun has completely set, or before dawn. But dawn and dusk on the Southwest Chief between ABQ and LAX are riveting, visually, for me. Nothing quite like it. I would definitely do it at least once.


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