# Honolulu Rail To Break Ground



## WhoozOn1st

Time was this woulda been GG-1's turf (plantation?), but since he's moved to Lost Wages it appears I'm now closest to the Aloha State beat.






RaIl gets OK to break ground

"The record of decision states that the project, which would connect East Kapolei with Ala Moana Center, would save residents more than 20 million hours of travel time every year by 2030. The project also would be a boon for the local construction industry, which saw a 6 percent drop in jobs last year, city officials said.

"'What this project essentially means is one thing: jobs,' said acting mayor and city Managing Director Douglas Chin. 'Once it starts, this project will create thousands of jobs. It will fuel the city and state's economy.'

"The decision, signed by FTA [Federal Transit Administration] Regional Administrator Leslie Rogers, states that 'all reasonable steps are being taken to minimize the adverse environmental effects of the project, and where adverse environmental effects remain, no feasible and prudent alternative to such effects exists.'

"One remaining hurdle is a pending application for a Special Management Area permit, which the City Council will decide on next week. Other permits are required but need only administrative approval from the city Department of Planning and Permitting."


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## WhoozOn1st

Here's the project's website: Honolulu Rail Transit

Route Map PDF


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## GG-1

Aloha

There is both good and bad in this project.

Bad


Over 20 years getting to this point
The plan only serves a small part of the island of Oahu
Construction starts at the remote end of the planed route
Good


When finished will provide a alternate route into town
Jobs in construction and operation
Faster travel than the only freeway
Their are more but that is all I can think of at the moment.


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## the_traveler

You mean Amtrak is *FINALLY* going to serve Hawaii?



Is the connecting city LAX or PDX?



And will it be a 4 zone award from the correct coast?





If true, there may soon be a CTRW (Chez Traveler Real West)!


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## former Coast Haole

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> 
> There is both good and bad in this project.
> 
> Bad
> 
> 
> Over 20 years getting to this point
> The plan only serves a small part of the island of Oahu
> Construction starts at the remote end of the planed route
> Good
> 
> 
> When finished will provide a alternate route into town
> Jobs in construction and operation
> Faster travel than the only freeway
> Their are more but that is all I can think of at the moment.


More than 20 years getting to this point? No, more like 37 years! In 1973, George Villegas, the city's transportation director under then-Mayor Frank Fasi, proposed a 14-mile "fixed guideway" system (as it was called then) between Hawaii Kai and Maunaloa. (Traffic was horrendous even then in Honolulu as so much all of it goes along a narrow corridor east-west (or Diamond Head-Eva as they say in Hawaii) and the Kalanianioli Highway and the H-1 have long been perennially jammed. But the proposal got caught up in the long-running political battles between Fasi and other state Democratic leaders, and it's been kicked around for years. But never too late to save some part of Paradise!


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## MikefromCrete

Glad to see this is finally getting under way. I was in Honolulu 15-16 years ago and there was a lot of talk about the need for such a rail system them. It became quite a political football among the various state administrations, but it looks like it is finally a go. Once the first section is up and running, I'm sure other areas of Oahu will be wanting service too! The first line is always the hardest, but if it's successful, expansion will follow.


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## GG-1

Aloha

Time sure flies  ... Fasi originally proposed HART, Honolulu Area Rapid Transit, sort of a fixed guide-way bus system. He fought for a transit system very hard. And politics have driven up the price. The Island of Oahu layout is perfect for rapid transit.

What bother's me about the start in Kapolei is untill almost it is amost finished there will be few riders untill it reaches the airport witch is almost 3/4 built. If construction begins at Ala Moana Center out then people can use the system sooner. Also by not including the University of Hawaii a little Koko Head (east) of Ala Moana (major shopping center) another significant source of ridership is lost. Then Hawaii Kai is not included and it is probally the largest residential area on the Island. Also because of the openness of the Island I believe a Monorail structure would be better as it is smaller than the structure for light rail. Lastly the public has not had any vote on the type of system, however by a fair margin they voted to finance a system


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## AlanB

GG-1 said:


> Lastly the public has not had any vote on the type of system, however by a fair margin they voted to finance a system


I fail to understand why this is a problem. The public shouldn't get to vote on it. The public doesn't get to vote on whether to install a 20 inch water main vs. a 26" water main. The public doesn't get to vote on most things and they shouldn't get to vote on things. That's becoming one of California's biggest problems is that they vote on everything. The entire point of our government is that you vote for someone to represent your interests. If they don't do a good job in your opinion, you vote them out in the next election.

But voting on everything only wastes time & money and usually ends up making things worse, rather than better. And in this case when more than 3/4ths of the residents in the US don't understand the difference between light rail and high speed rail, taking a vote on the type of rail to install is useless. Most people won't know what they're voting for or how it may or may not work in this case.


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## GG-1

AlanB said:


> GG-1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly the public has not had any vote on the type of system, however by a fair margin they voted to finance a system
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to understand why this is a problem. The public shouldn't get to vote on it. The public doesn't get to vote on whether to install a 20 inch water main vs. a 26" water main. The public doesn't get to vote on most things and they shouldn't get to vote on things. That's becoming one of California's biggest problems is that they vote on everything. The entire point of our government is that you vote for someone to represent your interests. If they don't do a good job in your opinion, you vote them out in the next election.
Click to expand...

Aloha

Actually I wish in Honolulu's situation you were correct. Unfortunately Only 1 elected person there seems to understand they represent the people. Most of them in the last 40 years use there office for personal gain. And for what ever reason they seem to have a better chance of being elected. Granted I may be jaded having worked with many of them. I hope the current Mayor, whom, in my opinion is the best elected person, ever to get elected. I have held this opinion since he first ran for city council.


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## DET63

It was my understanding after the vote to begin work on construction that opponents felt very confident they could still derail (pardon the pun) the plan. In fact, opposition still seems to be active. Is there any chance they will be able to stop it, or is this so much bluster?


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## AlanB

There is always a chance that they can stop it, but with each passing day it does get harder to stop it.


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## former Coast Haole

AlanB said:


> There is always a chance that they can stop it, but with each passing day it does get harder to stop it.


Good grief, if there was ever a locale perfect for commuter rail transit, Honolulu would be it. Essentially a linear city where many folks won't even need connecting bus or kiss-and-ride/park-and-ride to use it! The opponents in Hawaii have been hauling out the same old tired ideological arguments for more than three decades!

Time to accede to reality!


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## AlanB

former Coast Haole said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is always a chance that they can stop it, but with each passing day it does get harder to stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief, if there was ever a locale perfect for commuter rail transit, Honolulu would be it. Essentially a linear city where many folks won't even need connecting bus or kiss-and-ride/park-and-ride to use it! The opponents in Hawaii have been hauling out the same old tired ideological arguments for more than three decades!
> 
> Time to accede to reality!
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating stopping it, just answering the question asked in the post above.

It would be incredibly stupid to stop the line, despite the objections of many of the uninformed who oppose it.


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## Green Maned Lion

I repeat: When the train turns a wheel in revenue service, I believe it will happen. Until then I remain skeptical. Al Cafiero went to his death bed having just heard the Hudson-Bergen light rail would be extended to Tenafly. That project has been canned. Glassboro started to refurbish their train station in preparation for the already funded DRPA extension of the RiverLINE to Glassboro. That project is on indefinite hold. The Second Avenue Subway has had ground broken on it 3 or 4 times. Its currently under construction but facing cost overruns and the very real possibility it will be scrapped.

All of these projects were sworn to be done extensions of already successful rail operations. This Honolulu rail project is a brand new rail project on a tiny island that has never seen passenger rail in operation at any time in its existence, even when the whole country otherwise was crisscrossed by the stuff. To suggest that it will surely be built is Quixotism defined.


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## sechs

Green Maned Lion said:


> This Honolulu rail project is a brand new rail project on a tiny island that has never seen passenger rail in operation at any time in its existence, even when the whole country otherwise was crisscrossed by the stuff.


So much ignorance.
I would suggest that you stop speaking from alternative orifices if you'd like to make believable points:

http://www.american-rails.com/hawaiian-railroads.html


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## George Harris

GG-1: A monorail system would be just as wide in the air as the rail system that is being built. Never forget the basic vehicle is based on the size of people. Thus, you will normally end up with a vehicle that is at least 8.5 to 9 feet wide and about 7 feet high inside the passenger compartment. If you add the walkways required by current safety standards, the width of the structure is about the same regardless of whether the vehicle is rubber tired, on rails, monorail, or maglev. The monorails in existence, such as Seattle and Disney do not meet the current safety standards. Don't know anything about what has been built recently in Lost Wages, and had no desire to be anywhere near it either professionally or as a passenger.

Monorail remains a solution looking for a problem that needs solving.

Imagine the nightmare that is a turnout in either monorail or maglev.

What is being built right now in Honolulu is the first phase.

In my time there a couple years ago, I was astounded by how much of downtown Honolulu was given over to parking garages.


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## henryj

I am glad to hear it is finally going to happen. But should the justification for it be jobs? Couldn't it have something to do with mobility maybe?


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## AlanB

henryj said:


> I am glad to hear it is finally going to happen. But should the justification for it be jobs? Couldn't it have something to do with mobility maybe?


Henry,

I agree, the justification shouldn't have to be jobs. But alas, far too often people don't see the real justification as reason enough or even a good reason. Hence Ike's little white lie that the Interstate Highway System (IHS) were for the military. Few people today would argue against the IHS as having been a bad idea. But back then many were very opposed to the idea and especially government's involvement in building the IHS.

In Honolulu's case, far too many drivers can't see how the train would benefit them and they also don't realize that the roads are subsidized. So all they see is their money going to give someone else a free ride. They don't realize that they too are getting a free ride. They don't realize that every rider on the train potentially represents someone not in front of them on the highway.

So with high unemployment a major topic of concern these days, it's all about jobs.

It's sad, but it's not always easy to get people to do that which is best for them.


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## Green Maned Lion

sechs said:


> So much ignorance.
> 
> I would suggest that you stop speaking from alternative orifices if you'd like to make believable points:
> 
> http://www.american-rails.com/hawaiian-railroads.html


I stand corrected in fact, but not in general concept.



George Harris said:


> Monorail remains a solution looking for a problem that needs solving.


Quote for truth. What monorail does have, though, is the "COOL!" factor, which can and does result in construction where regular light rail or rapid transit wouldn't get the go ahead. So it solves the problem of idiots not knowing enough about rail not wanting rail.


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## sechs

Green Maned Lion said:


> sechs said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much ignorance.
> 
> I would suggest that you stop speaking from alternative orifices if you'd like to make believable points:
> 
> http://www.american-rails.com/hawaiian-railroads.html
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected in fact, but not in general concept.
Click to expand...

?


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## Green Maned Lion

sechs said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sechs said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much ignorance.
> 
> I would suggest that you stop speaking from alternative orifices if you'd like to make believable points:
> 
> http://www.american-rails.com/hawaiian-railroads.html
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected in fact, but not in general concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to even bother to explain to you such an elementary statement.


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## sechs

Green Maned Lion said:


> I'm not going to even bother to explain to you such an elementary statement.


Is that a personal attack or just some kind of weak appeal to ridicule or authority?
If it's so elementary, then it should hardly be a bother to explain.


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## MikefromCrete

Green Maned Lion said:


> sechs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sechs said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much ignorance.
> 
> I would suggest that you stop speaking from alternative orifices if you'd like to make believable points:
> 
> http://www.american-rails.com/hawaiian-railroads.html
> 
> 
> 
> I stand corrected in fact, but not in general concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not going to even bother to explain to you such an elementary statement.
Click to expand...

Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.


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## GG-1

George Harris said:


> GG-1: A monorail system would be just as wide in the air as the rail system that is being built. Never forget the basic vehicle is based on the size of people. Thus, you will normally end up with a vehicle that is at least 8.5 to 9 feet wide and about 7 feet high inside the passenger compartment. If you add the walkways required by current safety standards, the width of the structure is about the same regardless of whether the vehicle is rubber tired, on rails, monorail, or maglev. The monorails in existence, such as Seattle and Disney do not meet the current safety standards. Don't know anything about what has been built recently in Lost Wages, and had no desire to be anywhere near it either professionally or as a passenger.
> 
> Monorail remains a solution looking for a problem that needs solving.
> 
> Imagine the nightmare that is a turnout in either monorail or maglev.
> 
> What is being built right now in Honolulu is the first phase.
> 
> In my time there a couple years ago, I was astounded by how much of downtown Honolulu was given over to parking garages.


Aloha George

I have tremendous respect for you and your knowledge and experience in real railroads. This Picture





And also this picture






Show how little the structure is for monorails, and their impact on the ground below them, including the required safety walkways. The Las Vegas system probably would better serve residents if it had been built from the Airport, then down the center of the strip to the down town bus terminal station. rather than its current route along the industrial side of the east side casinos.

My concern about the choice of the segment and building direction, as currently planed, will cause it to have no use, until the completion of the current segment until. if I remember correctly, is 2020. By that time the public will become disillusioned and never support any expansion to the eastward side of Ala Moana, Which is potentially the busiest area of service..

I think I have, somewhere, a picture of a switch, which isn't all that complicated on the beam type monorail.

Mahalo for your thoughts about the size related/required for the vehicles.

Eric


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## George Harris

Thanks for the pictures. Explains one thing that happened early on: There was some part that fell off one of the cars in testing and landed in the street or on someone's car, don't remember which.

I would love to see the correnspondence between the agency there and the FRA, NFPA, and others relating to safety, evacuation, etc. Might find some stuff worth using elsewhere.


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## GG-1

Aloha

A wheel and "snubber" Came off in testing. And due to excessive testing before any passengers were using the system some parts reached their expected life. The route chosen has, if I recall correctly, is three different turns from one street to another that are typical of street cars. Previous Alweg designs had sweeping gradual curves. As a matter of interest the first Monorails to take to the beams were the original Florida trains from Bally's to MGM.

I just looked at the current route map here and it shows 5 apparent 90 degree curves. Sorry I don't know the official radius of these curves. If the planners had put it where is should have been placed, in the middle of the strip, all of it's curves would have been broader. Various story's suggest that it was placed behind the East Side Casino's is because funding came from these casinos and they did not want the west side casino's benefiting and/or disturbing the look of the casino fronts. These to decisions have effectively prevented the complete success as a real transit system. It, even in bankruptcy, is fully paying it;s operational cost, but not the construction loans of profits to its investors.


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## GG-1

Aloha

Here is the latest Groundbreaking date set


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## Nexis4Jersey

Rapid Transit Closer to Realization as Honolulu’s Rail Project Breaks Ground

Interesting.....its not as dense as i thought it was...


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## Green Maned Lion

Anyone who wants to live in Hawaii, with its absurd pricing, is a lunatic. I'm sure this line will cost riders $6-12-35 a ride.


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## Nexis4Jersey

Green Maned Lion said:


> Anyone who wants to live in Hawaii, with its absurd pricing, is a lunatic. I'm sure this line will cost riders $6-12-35 a ride.


The Same could be said about this state...


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## rrdude

Green Maned Lion said:


> Anyone who wants to live in Hawaii, with its absurd pricing, is a lunatic. I'm sure this line will cost riders $6-12-35 a ride.


Anyone who *DOESN'T* want to live in Hawai'i is a lunatic. And I love the cold, snowy weather too!

What shocks me is that WikiWiki wasn't included in the original plan, they show it as an extension........


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## Bob Dylan

Green Maned Lion said:


> Anyone who wants to live in Hawaii, with its absurd pricing, is a lunatic. I'm sure this line will cost riders $6-12-35 a ride.


:hi: Since one of our Members lived in Hawaii before moving to Lost Wages, think his comments would be interesting! Ive only visited there, Loved it :wub: , and while pricey, the people there seem to be Happier than the poor states (ie the South and California and the Rust Belt :lol: ). I lived in the NE for many years and also Broke-i-fornia and didn't find them any cheaper than Hawaii! Only negative is No Amtrak IMO! :giggle:


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## GG-1

rrdude said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who wants to live in Hawaii, with its absurd pricing, is a lunatic. I'm sure this line will cost riders $6-12-35 a ride.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who *DOESN'T* want to live in Hawai'i is a lunatic. And I love the cold, snowy weather too!
> 
> What shocks me is that WikiWiki wasn't included in the original plan, they show it as an extension........
Click to expand...

Aloha

What will be more shocking to Jim is Waikiki is not in any plan that I remember. And the Salt lake proposal was at several different times,the planed route. Guess I need to dig out the DVD I received because I testified i favor of a system, preferring a Monorail. Construction of a system should start at Ala Moana and build both ways to Kapolei and Hawaii Kai. That small strip of the Island has about 75% (guess) of the Island population. I seem to remember Oahu's official population being 1 million.

The reason I left the Island was cost compared to income. As I have aged working 16 hour work days was more than I could do. 1175 for less than 500 sq. ft. was 2 much. Then Lost Wages :giggle: is closer to my children. I f not for this Honolulu is great. Family is a community. Those making it are wealthy or bought homes before around 1970. At my age beach living is out of the question.


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## Green Maned Lion

Nexis4Jersey said:


> The Same could be said about this state...


New Jersey is the nicest, most beautiful, most lovely state in the entire country, and anyone who says otherwise is presently in Elizabeth. We've got mountains, forests, cities, beaches, lovely warm summers, deliciously cold winters, beautifully colorful falls, flowery springs. Nowhere in this country can you get all of that in such a small space.



jimhudson said:


> :hi: Since one of our Members lived in Hawaii before moving to Lost Wages, think his comments would be interesting! Ive only visited there, Loved it :wub: , and while pricey, the people there seem to be Happier than the poor states (ie the South and California and the Rust Belt :lol: ). I lived in the NE for many years and also Broke-i-fornia and didn't find them any cheaper than Hawaii! Only negative is No Amtrak IMO! :giggle:


Being perpetually happy is a clear sign of being neurotic, if not psychotic. The world is a rotten, awful place full of extremely stupid, extremely dishonest, extremely selfish [entrance to alimentary canal]s. Hawaii is much like south Florida, full of people living in denial of the filth, corruption, and misery actually existing around them. People who can't accept that the world is a rotten place, and live with it, sicken me.

Pretending the reality of life doesn't exist is not a way to fix the problems of that reality.


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## GG-1

Green Maned Lion said:


> Nexis4Jersey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Same could be said about this state...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey is the nicest, most beautiful, most lovely state in the entire country, and anyone who says otherwise is presently in Elizabeth. We've got mountains, forests, cities, beaches, lovely warm summers, deliciously cold winters, beautifully colorful falls, flowery springs. Nowhere in this country can you get all of that in such a small space.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Since I started my life in Jersey most of what you just wrote is true, but you forget the Big Island Hawaii has all of this 12 months of the year. One can actually go snow Skiing and to the beach in the same day.



Green Maned Lion said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> :hi: Since one of our Members lived in Hawaii before moving to Lost Wages, think his comments would be interesting! Ive only visited there, Loved it :wub: , and while pricey, the people there seem to be Happier than the poor states (ie the South and California and the Rust Belt :lol: ). I lived in the NE for many years and also Broke-i-fornia and didn't find them any cheaper than Hawaii! Only negative is No Amtrak IMO! :giggle:
> 
> 
> 
> Being perpetually happy is a clear sign of being neurotic, if not psychotic. The world is a rotten, awful place full of extremely stupid, extremely dishonest, extremely selfish [entrance to alimentary canal]s. Hawaii is much like south Florida, full of people living in denial of the filth, corruption, and misery actually existing around them. People who can't accept that the world is a rotten place, and live with it, sicken me.
> 
> Pretending the reality of life doesn't exist is not a way to fix the problems of that reality.
Click to expand...

Well I am happy to report So what if I am neurotic, wait no I am not, because I know the bad exist, butt choose not to be brought down to that level while changing the thing's I can and knowing that there are things I can not change , and knowing the difference. hmnn did I just steal a quote?


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## rrdude

Green Maned Lion said:


> Nexis4Jersey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Same could be said about this state...
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey is the nicest, most beautiful, most lovely state in the entire country, and anyone who says otherwise is presently in Elizabeth. We've got mountains, forests, cities, beaches, lovely warm summers, deliciously cold winters, beautifully colorful falls, flowery springs. Nowhere in this country can you get all of that in such a small space.
> 
> 
> 
> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> :hi: Since one of our Members lived in Hawaii before moving to Lost Wages, think his comments would be interesting! Ive only visited there, Loved it :wub: , and while pricey, the people there seem to be Happier than the poor states (ie the South and California and the Rust Belt :lol: ). I lived in the NE for many years and also Broke-i-fornia and didn't find them any cheaper than Hawaii! Only negative is No Amtrak IMO! :giggle:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Being perpetually happy is a clear sign of being neurotic, if not psychotic. The world is a rotten, awful place full of extremely stupid, extremely dishonest, extremely selfish [entrance to alimentary canal]s. Hawaii is much like south Florida, full of people living in denial of the filth, corruption, and misery actually existing around them. People who can't accept that the world is a rotten place, and live with it, sicken me.
> 
> Pretending the reality of life doesn't exist is not a way to fix the problems of that reality.
Click to expand...

You finally did it. I am speechless. There are no words to describe, at least in this forum, the way I...... Oh wait, it doesn't matter, because you don't know me, and hence could care less, blah, blah, blah,.

I'm glad we have at least someone in this forum who is right 100% of the time, and whose opinions are Gospel. Let me know when you start handing out the laced Kool-Aid.


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## Green Maned Lion

I stand by my opinions, and fight to the death my right to have them. But RRdude, I would fight to the death to preserve your right to disagree with them, too.


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## rrdude

Green Maned Lion said:


> I stand by my opinions, and fight to the death my right to have them. But RRdude, I would fight to the death to preserve your right to disagree with them, too.


Good to know, at least we have two things in common, love of rail travel, and right to express one's opinion.


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## sechs

Green Maned Lion said:


> We've got mountains, forests, cities, beaches, lovely warm summers, deliciously cold winters, beautifully colorful falls, flowery springs. Nowhere in this country can you get all of that in such a small space.


Nowhere, including New Jersey, of course. Then again, at last check, New Hampshire had these things in less space....


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## DET63

sechs said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> We've got mountains, forests, cities, beaches, lovely warm summers, deliciously cold winters, beautifully colorful falls, flowery springs. Nowhere in this country can you get all of that in such a small space.
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere, including New Jersey, of course. Then again, at last check, New Hampshire had these things in less space....
Click to expand...

The highest point in New Jersey, called, appropriately enough, High Point, is 1,803 feet above sea level. In many western states, including California and Hawaii, not only would such a place not be considered a mountain, it probably wouldn't even be given a name.


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## George Harris

DET63 said:


> The highest point in New Jersey, called, appropriately enough, High Point, is 1,803 feet above sea level. In many western states, including California and Hawaii, not only would such a place not be considered a mountain, it probably wouldn't even be given a name.


And in a lot of the midwestern states, it would be a deep hole in the ground. Remember, Denver, "the mile high city" is on the plain at the bottom of the mountains.

And then the opposite extreme: There was a place in the vicinity of Houston TX called "Mount Houston" guess somebody stubbed their toe on a bump on the ground.


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## DET63

Speaking of Houston, I remember that the arena the Rockets used to play in was called The Summit. (I believe it's now the Osteens' mega-church.) Some sportscaster once pointed out the irony of a place with that name in a city without any hills.

The good thing about all of that is that, for any rail system in existence or eventually built in Houston, the ruling grade in any direction is going to be essentially 0!


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## George Harris

DET63 said:


> Speaking of Houston, I remember that the arena the Rockets used to play in was called The Summit. (I believe it's now the Osteens' mega-church.) Some sportscaster once pointed out the irony of a place with that name in a city without any hills.
> 
> The good thing about all of that is that, for any rail system in existence or eventually built in Houston, the ruling grade in any direction is going to be essentially 0!


However to build a subway would be *a really bad idea!* (Why do you think Miami's system is all elevated?)


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## WhoozOn1st

Honolulu rail project to get $55M in federal funds this year

"'Federal funds are hard to come by in the current budget climate, and the fact that Honolulu will receive everything the president asked for is very encouraging,' [u.S. Senator Daniel] Inouye said in a statement.

_______________

And...

City's poll finds majority favors rail

"A city-commissioned poll conducted last month showed that 57 percent of people on Oahu support the $5.3 billion rail transit project."

On the linked page an embedded gizmo of the poll is poorly placed above the news story about poll results; just scroll down.

_______________

A "yes2rail" blog provides ongoing updates, and support, for the newly created and about-to-exist Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transit (HART). As with any major transit project there are political shenanigans...

Say Yes to the Honolulu Rail System

"Honolulu's soon-to-be-built rail transit system makes sense for Oahu residents no matter where you live. It will improve mobility for islanders who must commute along the Kapolei-Downtown corridor, and it'll cut traffic congestion from projected levels by about 18%. If you're put off that I'm a paid communications consultant on the project and started this blog specifically to advance it, you probably don't want to read any further."


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## stntylr

It makes sense that the regular people who have to drive in Honolulu's perpetual traffic jam want rail. The only people who are against it are those who have there own agenda. They have to convice the people of Honolulu that trafic jams are great and zipping past a non moving mass of cars is no good.


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## George Harris

Honolulu is a city made for transit. It is sandwiched between ocean and mountain, basically a strip city. Every last drop of oil burned by automobiles (and eveerything else that uses oil) has to come in by ship, and whether used or not, they have a handy source of heat that should be able to generate all the electricity they could ever use.

The only difficult to understand part of the whole thing is why the did not start building transit 50 or more years ago rather than filling the downtown area with parking garages.


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## GG-1

George Harris said:


> Honolulu is a city made for transit. It is sandwiched between ocean and mountain, basically a strip city. Every last drop of oil burned by automobiles (and eveerything else that uses oil) has to come in by ship, and whether used or not, they have a handy source of heat that should be able to generate all the electricity they could ever use.
> 
> The only difficult to understand part of the whole thing is why the did not start building transit 50 or more years ago rather than filling the downtown area with parking garages.


Aloha

George, you are correct about everything except the heat source for electricity. I suspect you are suggesting the volcano. On Oahu that source is not active.

As to why it wasn't built in the last 50 years the answer is "Politics" in the most wasteful abuse of the public. During the 49 years I lived on Oahu, I voted yes 3 times for a system. And it still hasn't happened and the residents have been paying an extra tax for it for quite a while. I hope I live long enough to get at least one ride for my part of the tax I paid before I left the Island.


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## RCrierie

AlanB said:


> Hence Ike's little white lie that the Interstate Highway System (IHS) were for the military


I suggest you google STRAHNET, and look at why we have 16'3" clearances in general on the IHS. If you want to build a bridge/tunnel shorter than that, you generally have to coodinate with DOD to ensure that the shorter clearances don't impair possible military mobility.


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## AlanB

RCrierie said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hence Ike's little white lie that the Interstate Highway System (IHS) were for the military
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you google STRAHNET, and look at why we have 16'3" clearances in general on the IHS. If you want to build a bridge/tunnel shorter than that, you generally have to coodinate with DOD to ensure that the shorter clearances don't impair possible military mobility.
Click to expand...

A rule passed to support the little white lie.

Look, I'm not saying that the military doesn't use the IHS, although less so now than it did originally. But the initial proposal for the IHS didn't make any mention of the military. It was simply a good idea that President Eisenhower brought home from Germany. When the plan got voted down and had little public support; that was when the military compenent became part of the plan. Since we spend any amount of money no matter how insane for the military in this country, the IHS then passed with flying colors.


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## George Harris

AlanB said:


> Look, I'm not saying that the military doesn't use the IHS, although less so now than it did originally. But the initial proposal for the IHS didn't make any mention of the military. It was simply a good idea that President Eisenhower brought home from Germany. When the plan got voted down and had little public support; that was when the military compenent became part of the plan. Since we spend any amount of money no matter how insane for the military in this country, the IHS then passed with flying colors.


It was initially called the Interstate and Defense Highway System. Supposedly it could be closed to public access during time of ememrgency and given over completly to military use.

However: The BIG selling point is that it was funded 90% federal 10% state, unlike all other federal aid highway projects which were 50%-50%. In fact in the designated "public lands" states, the funding was 95%-5%. I don't recall which states these were, but Nevada was one of them.

Yes, I know the volcanos on Oahu are on longer active, but the hot rocks are still down there somewhere. Who knows? maybe an udersea cable from the big isalnd would be practical.


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## GG-1

George Harris said:


> Yes, I know the volcanos on Oahu are on longer active, but the hot rocks are still down there somewhere. Who knows? maybe an udersea cable from the big isalnd would be practical.


Aloha

Oahu has moved away from the vents that made that island (really) Oahu used to be where the big island is now. A Loooooong time ago. Even not a new island is building south east . Read somewhere the island will break the oceans surface in 5000 years. I do not expect to be there to watch. :giggle:

I haven't seen or read recently about the status of an undersea cable, but eventually I am sure one will connect the islands in our lifetime.


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