# Tide Extension Likely to Get Voted Down



## Anderson (May 10, 2015)

I was at an event with Sen. Wagner (R-Virginia Beach) and we got to discussing trains and transit. He informed me that it is more likely than not that Virginia Beach is going to vote down the Oceanfront extension of the Tide (though I don't know if he was referring to the entire project or just the bit about extending past Town Center). This came up in the context of some other transit discussions...particularly his support for a fast ferry between Norfolk and Newport News/Hampton as a short-term relief valve for the HRBT/MMBT traffic issues (since we're probably looking at a decade or more to get any more capacity there).


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

Just to be clear: Frank Wagner is a State Senator in the Virginia Senate.


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## afigg (May 10, 2015)

Anderson said:


> I was at an event with Sen. Wagner (R-Virginia Beach) and we got to discussing trains and transit. He informed me that it is more likely than not that Virginia Beach is going to vote down the Oceanfront extension of the Tide (though I don't know if he was referring to the entire project or just the bit about extending past Town Center).


It is remarkably difficult to build rail transit, even moderately priced light rail, in so many places in the US. People who pay no attention to spending $500 million on a massive highway interchange or road widening project of questionable utility can go nuts at the idea of spending several hundred million on a rail transit line because they don't see themselves as ever using it. Along with the often not subtle opposition subtext that the wrong people will take the rail line to rob, pillage, and plunder the local neighborhoods.

I have not been following the news on extending the Tide to VA Beach; found this May 3 editorial in support from the Virginian Pilot: Vote for light rail. Provides an overview of the plans and proposals. The city has already lined up $155 million in state funding and $30 million in low interest loans from the state (1.5% interest? can't get much cheaper than that). The key votes by the city council are on May 12.


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## el invitado (May 13, 2015)

Could state senator Wagner's judgement be clouded by his ideology?

The Virginia Beach city council has voted 9 to 2 to support extending the Tide to Virginia Beach's Town Center. They also voted separately to put $20 million towards the project. Yes. That was NINE to TWO. Not even close!


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## CHamilton (May 14, 2015)

Virginia Beach City Council Oks funds to support light-rail extension






> The Virginia Beach City Council has adopted a budget for the coming year that includes $20 million for a Hampton Roads Transit (HRT) light-rail extension. The total budget will increase 2.2 percent – roughly the rate of inflation.
> The budget includes money to extend light rail from Newtown Road to Town Center. Building the line would cost an estimated $310 million, with half of that – $155 million – from the state. The city is also build a walking-biking path alongside light rail for an estimated $17.6 million.


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## Anderson (May 14, 2015)

el invitado said:


> Could state senator Wagner's judgement be clouded by his ideology?
> 
> The Virginia Beach city council has voted 9 to 2 to support extending the Tide to Virginia Beach's Town Center. They also voted separately to put $20 million towards the project. Yes. That was NINE to TWO. Not even close!


If you mean to somehow imply that Sen. Wagner is opposed to the project then you're not familiar with Sen. Wagner at all. With that said, I suspect his concern is with the Oceanfront extension (which is something like the better part of another $1bn on top of the Town Center extension).


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## jis (May 15, 2015)

So is it then true that they neither voted down nor voted up nor sideways on the extension beyond Town Center and let that issue lie for another day?


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## PRR 60 (Nov 10, 2016)

Low TIDE

From the Virginian-Pilot, 11/8/16:



> Virginia Beach light rail referendum vote fails in a landslide
> 
> The voters of Virginia Beach have spoken: They overwhelmingly don’t want light rail. No: 57 percent. Yes: 43 percent.
> 
> The count is unofficial, but more than 166,000 weighed in on the nonbinding referendum. The vote acts as a litmus test for the City Council, which will now decide whether to formally kill the $243 million, 3.5-mile extension from Norfolk to Town Center. A majority of council members have said they will follow the results of the referendum.


The full story is HERE.


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## MattW (Nov 10, 2016)

Usually I'm all for expansion projects, and for what it's worth, I was for this one. However taking a close look at the extension, I can see why it was voted down. Quite simply, it wouldn't really serve a lot of Virginia Beach. This would primarily benefit that one "Town Center" development it was going to terminate at. It would have to go farther out to be of greater benefit. Hopefully, they'll put together a plan for a longer extension that helps a lot more people and should be more palatable to the city.


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## City of Miami (Nov 10, 2016)

Personally I don't see 57% as 'overwhelming' rejection. It's a little over half, a comfortable majority. Such verbal inflation is commonplace in today's entertainment news media. Gotta make it seem like more than it so boringly is.


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