# buy points



## yarrow (Mar 6, 2008)

on the agr hot deals page i find "buy points". you can purchase points. not an espcially good deal but might be tempted to get some to fill out a points total for a trip i just can't wait for


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## AlanB (Mar 6, 2008)

I hadn't noticed the link before, but they did announce that this feature would be forthcoming in the literature that came with my new Select Plus card. Additionally they also mentioned that we are going to be able to give our points to others. Not sure if that's for all member levels or just for Select Plus and/or Select members.


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## MrFSS (Mar 6, 2008)

I'll never have enough for a real trip. Can I sell mine???


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

Looks like 10,000 points max will cost you $275. The offer appears to be available to everyone. Through the promotional date there is no $15 service charge.


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## sechs (Mar 7, 2008)

Seems like a really reasonable price for AGR points.


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## AlanB (Mar 7, 2008)

sechs said:


> Seems like a really reasonable price for AGR points.


The price per point is reasonable IMHO, what I don't like is the $15 service charge. I've never tried to buy airline points, but over at Hilton Honors there is no service charge for buying points. Just the charge per point.


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## The Metropolitan (Mar 7, 2008)

2.75¢ per point is VERY VERY reasonable if you look at it from this angle, and are able to use them in such situations.

3000 points is good for a NE Zone Coach Ticket. That's $82.50. Even with the service charge, it comes out to $97.50!

If I take a look at Monday Morning's Regionals from BOS to WAS, they're running $118! One of the Regional trains next Friday is running at $142. And as far as I can see, you can NEVER get a Niagara Falls to Newport News ticket for less than $147 regardless of how far in advance you get it, but you CAN cash in 3000 points for one.

A smart traveller who tends to take trips fully across a zone on short notice might buy points to have on bank for these occasions!

And 10,000 points for $275 (or $290 if you add the fee) is actually a good deal for those members with just over 25,000 points looking to do a full transcon. I'm a sliver shy of 20K now, and was looking at a transcon, but the prices of booking oneself and a travelling companion in roomette from the West Coast to the zone borders at Denver, ABQ, or El Paso were running $520, $480, and $300 respectively. And this is without doing the creative (and typically pricier) route along the CS.

Heck, a wannabe Florida or Atlanta t/f New York sleeper traveller could find a lot of value in 10000 points at $290. Considering the cost of rail fare and sleeper for ORL-NYP or ATL-NYP for two can run $557 to $696, paying $290 to take care of 2/3 of the trip to get you to 15K points is a pretty good deal!

Though I tend to look at booking well in advance to keep my prices low, I can see where even I might benefit from having a surge of points available for a future reward trip!


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## Cascadia (Mar 8, 2008)

That does seem like a good deal, and the points don't expire, do they?


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## AlanB (Mar 8, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> That does seem like a good deal, and the points don't expire, do they?


Not as long as you make sure to take at least one paid ride on Amtrak every three years.


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## Cascadia (Mar 8, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Cascadia said:
> 
> 
> > That does seem like a good deal, and the points don't expire, do they?
> ...


Actually when you think about it, if you just bought some points and had them sitting there, it's like having money in the bank, I'm sure the price of Amtrak travel is not going to go down, so buying points when you know you will use them eventually, could be kind of a hedge against inflation. It could also be a transportation expense if someone needed one for bookkeeping purposes.


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## sechs (Mar 8, 2008)

Unless they raise the number of points necessary for each type of redemption. They'll do it at some point.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Not as long as you make sure to take at least one paid ride on Amtrak every three years.


Where in the Terms and Conditions does it say that?

What exactly do you mean by paid? With money? With points?


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## AlanB (Mar 9, 2008)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Not as long as you make sure to take at least one paid ride on Amtrak every three years.
> ...


Section E Amtrak Guest Rewards Conditions, rule #2.

A ride using points does not qualify. Only a trip paid for by cash, credit card, debit card, or by voucher resets the clock.


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## mark t diehl (Mar 11, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> I'll never have enough for a real trip. Can I sell mine???


Yes this is new, this is a tool for you if you are lacking points to get a free tip using your points, I understand right now this is free andin a couple months there will be a charge to buy points, remember you can buy and get something from the AGR mall and get points also. You can not sell your points to other members but you may beable to transfer points to a frind and do something on the side?


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## guest (Mar 13, 2008)

Can I book a trip with connected trans as a one trip using points?

Let's say MIA-WAS will cost me 5500 points, if I book MIA-WAS-BOS as one reservation - will it also cost 5500 points?


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## AlanB (Mar 13, 2008)

guest said:


> Can I book a trip with connected trans as a one trip using points?Let's say MIA-WAS will cost me 5500 points, if I book MIA-WAS-BOS as one reservation - will it also cost 5500 points?


Yes, as long as you remain within the zone, it doesn't matter how many trains are needed to actually reach your destination, tickets for all are included in the award. In your example, you are remaining within one zone, so 5,500 AGR points is all that is needed to reach Boston from Miami.

The zones are basically east, west, and central. Click here to view the map and chart.


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## guest (Mar 13, 2008)

AlanB said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > Can I book a trip with connected trans as a one trip using points?Let's say MIA-WAS will cost me 5500 points, if I book MIA-WAS-BOS as one reservation - will it also cost 5500 points?
> ...


Wow! That's great! Can I buy tickets for non-connecting trains the same way (let's say MIA-BOS-Portland,ME)?


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## AlanB (Mar 13, 2008)

guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > guest said:
> ...


Yes, you could get to Maine on one award.


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## guest (Mar 14, 2008)

AlanB said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Wow! Can I book a trip with stops (MIA-WAS, 2 days later WAS-NYP, then 2 days later NYP-BOS) and still pay 5500 points? (or 15000 points for roomette)


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## AlanB (Mar 14, 2008)

guest said:


> Wow! Can I book a trip with stops (MIA-WAS, 2 days later WAS-NYP, then 2 days later NYP-BOS) and still pay 5500 points? (or 15000 points for roomette)


No. Absolutely not.

It must be one continuous trip without overnight stopovers in a city, unless there is no same day connection. In the case of your example MIA to BOS, you'd be put on train #98 out of Miami. That would connect with train #82/86/88 (depending on the day of the week) in WAS the very next day. If you have an on time arrival, you'd have about an hour or so to explore DC before you'd have to catch that next train.

You would not be able to stop over in NY at all, other than the 10 minutes or so that train #82/86/88 pauses in Penn Station.

If you decided to overnight or even spend two nights in DC and/or NY, then you would now need two or three awards depending on whether you stopped at both cities or just one.


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## guest (Mar 14, 2008)

AlanB said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! Can I book a trip with stops (MIA-WAS, 2 days later WAS-NYP, then 2 days later NYP-BOS) and still pay 5500 points? (or 15000 points for roomette)
> ...


Then why did you say that I can get to Maine from MIA? Train to Maine is not connecting.


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## AlanB (Mar 14, 2008)

guest said:


> Then why did you say that I can get to Maine from MIA? Train to Maine is not connecting.


Because Amtrak still considers the Downeaster trains to be connecting trains, even though one has to get oneself from Boston's South Station to Boston's North Station in order to make the connection. The computer will even print out instructions on how to get from one station to the other on blank ticket stock.

So if you were going to Portland from Miami on one award, AGR would book you on the Silver Meteor to DC, then onto the afforementioned Regional train to Boston's South Station, and then you would be booked on the last train of the night out of North Station #689 leaving at 11:10 PM.

Returning however the way the schedule works out, if you were leaving Portland on a Saturday or a Sunday, AGR would have no choice but to let you overnight some where along the way, although I'm not sure what city they would choose. It's also possible that they just wouldn't let you book the trip on those two days, but I don't think so. Monday through Friday however, you'd be booked on the first train out of Portland #680 to Boston. Then you'd connect with Regional #93/83 out of Boston to DC to connect with the Meteor.


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## Acela150 (Mar 19, 2008)

To "buy" points you must have a guest rewards account and must have a valid amex,visa,discover, or mc.

Also I saw someone asked if you could overnight and pay the same amount of points. You can't. My dad and I took The Cardinal from Philadelphia 30th Street and overnighted in Chicago and took the Chief to Williams Jct. and used the grand canyon railway and continued on to LA. The total cost was 55,000 with all tickets being for roomettes. We were charged an extra 5,000 points for the overnights in Chicago and the canyon.

Acela150


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## meatpuff (Mar 19, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> I'm sure the price of Amtrak travel is not going to go down, so buying points when you know you will use them eventually, could be kind of a hedge against inflation.


You're making me laugh. This would place AGR points in the same category as oil and gold! I'm imagining watching CNBC and seeing AGR December futures trading for $0.028 on the scroll on the bottom.

Speaking more practically, you're on to something there. With what you said about being a hedge against inflation in that you can pay today's price for an Amtrak trip years in the future. Provided they don't raise the redemption thresholds. And who knows, but it would sure make a lot of people mad if they did.

Anyway, the fact that you can buy and sell and transfer the points to others does mean that a marketplace of sorts probably will arise for AGR points. Just not as elaborate as for other "commodities" because their value at trade-in is fairly fixed. But I still predict AGR points for sale will start appearing on eBay very soon.


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## meatpuff (Mar 19, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> 2.75¢ per point is VERY VERY reasonable if you look at it from this angle, and are able to use them in such situations.
> 3000 points is good for a NE Zone Coach Ticket. That's $82.50. Even with the service charge, it comes out to $97.50!
> 
> If I take a look at Monday Morning's Regionals from BOS to WAS, they're running $118! One of the Regional trains next Friday is running at $142. And as far as I can see, you can NEVER get a Niagara Falls to Newport News ticket for less than $147 regardless of how far in advance you get it, but you CAN cash in 3000 points for one.
> ...


You can get tickets no matter what bucket they're into at the moment, for the same number of AGR points? I've never cashed any in yet to be sure...

If this is true, that is some very interesting analysis. You are right that the traveler buying points will make out best on trips on both short notice and nearly entirely across a zone. You are right that this seems most promising on the NE Corridor: where the point cost for the zone is especially low and the dollar cost especially high.

For LDs, it looks like the cost of buying points to take a trip will be around one the cost of a ticket in one of the upper buckets. For example, CHI-EMY, I don't have the TT in front of me, but it looks like the coach fare ranges about $145-$284. Versus buying points, which is 8,000*.0275 = $220. Similar ratio for getting a roomette.

It looks like there could be an advantage on long trips on some of the other special corridors, when you notice that the Cascades and Pacific Surfliner only charge 1,000 points. Buying the points, that's $27.50! You can make some hay if you're traveling close to the extent of the corridors, SEA-EUG and SLO-SAN respectively. SLO-SAN is $45 everyday, and the high bucket fare for SEA-EUG seems to be $72. Compare to $27.50! Now I see why they will be instituting the $15 service charge!

Anyway, I probably will just use the points the old fashioned way (mostly cause I don't live by any high-frequency corridors), except now knowing I don't have to worry about falling just short of an award.


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## guest (Mar 20, 2008)

Acela150 said:


> To "buy" points you must have a guest rewards account and must have a valid amex,visa,discover, or mc.
> Also I saw someone asked if you could overnight and pay the same amount of points. You can't. My dad and I took The Cardinal from Philadelphia 30th Street and overnighted in Chicago and took the Chief to Williams Jct. and used the grand canyon railway and continued on to LA. The total cost was 55,000 with all tickets being for roomettes. We were charged an extra 5,000 points for the overnights in Chicago and the canyon.
> 
> Acela150


How did you manage to do that? Is there some 5000 points fee for "overnighting"?

Or you just broke your trip into 2 different trips?


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## the_traveler (Mar 23, 2008)

guest said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Also I saw someone asked if you could overnight and pay the same amount of points. You can't. My dad and I took The Cardinal from Philadelphia 30th Street and overnighted in Chicago and took the Chief to Williams Jct. and used the grand canyon railway and continued on to LA. *The total cost was 55,000 with all tickets being for **roomettes*. We were charged an extra 5,000 points for the overnights in Chicago and the canyon.
> ...


Here's what actually happened. (It was *3* awards!):

Award #1: PHL-CHI is a 2 zone award. The cost for a roomette is 20,000 points

Award #2: CHI-WMJ is a 2 zone award. The cost for a roomette is 20,000 points.

Award #3: WMJ-LAX is a 1 zone award. The cost for a roomette is 15,000 points.

Adding the 3 award costs (20K + 20K + 15K) comes to 55K! :blink: (BTW - if the trip was PHL-LAX without stops, the cost for a 3-zone award would have been 35K!)


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## the_traveler (Mar 23, 2008)

Here's a question that I don't think was asked ot answered about buy miles:

You are allowed to buy *for yourself* up to 10,000 points per year. And someone can buy *for another member* points to give, but they are limited to receive up to 10,000 points per year. So if you buy points for yourself, and somebody else buys and gives you points, is the limit 10K or 20K?

Notice the "buy for yourself" and "buy for somebody else" are 2 separate buttons! And the cost is the same. So could I buy 10K for myself and my SO buy 10K to give me?


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## rtabern (Mar 23, 2008)

Wow, I think the "buy points" thing is really cool.

The cost of a roomette on the Texas Eagle LAX-CHI when I'm looking at traveling in mid-September is around $730 and the cost of a bedroom is $1,200.

So I could use 20K points... buy 10K more... and get the bedroom for only $275 more instead of paying almost $500 if I was paying in cash... Awesome!


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## mark t diehl (Mar 25, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> 2.75¢ per point is VERY VERY reasonable if you look at it from this angle, and are able to use them in such situations.
> 3000 points is good for a NE Zone Coach Ticket. That's $82.50. Even with the service charge, it comes out to $97.50!
> 
> If I take a look at Monday Morning's Regionals from BOS to WAS, they're running $118! One of the Regional trains next Friday is running at $142. And as far as I can see, you can NEVER get a Niagara Falls to Newport News ticket for less than $147 regardless of how far in advance you get it, but you CAN cash in 3000 points for one.
> ...


I think you mean $ .0275 per point.


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## AlanB (Mar 25, 2008)

mark t diehl said:


> The Metropolitan said:
> 
> 
> > 2.75¢ per point is VERY VERY reasonable if you look at it from this angle, and are able to use them in such situations.
> ...


Not only did he indeed mean $.0275, that is what he wrote. Note that you are using the dollar sign $, whereas he used the cent sign ¢. Therefore $.0275 is the same amount of many as 2.75¢.


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## Cascadia (Mar 27, 2008)

Wonder if anyone will spend their "economic stimulus check" on AGR points?


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## RailFanLNK (Mar 29, 2008)

I wasn't all that "excited" about "buying" points until I realized I get a little inheritance stipend every April and October. Its around $183 and I always use it on something fun since I have invested the other amounts of inheritance I recieved after my mom and dad died in 2003 and 2004. I'm going to throw another $70 with my inheritance and get 10,000 pts. I will try and do so a year from now and thats a roomette in 2 zones somewhere in the US. With two of us going somewhere it ends up being a "deal" for me.


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## JayPea (Mar 29, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> Wonder if anyone will spend their "economic stimulus check" on AGR points?



No, but I'm doing even better: Spending part of it on Amtrak travel! I ought to send President Bush a personal letter of thanks!!! :lol:


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## sechs (Mar 29, 2008)

Send it to future generations of tax payers. They're the ones who will be paying for this.


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## the_traveler (Mar 29, 2008)

sechs said:


> Send it to future generations of tax payers. They're the ones who will be paying for this.


The "checks" - not the train rides! If the President has his way, the only trains that the future generations see will be in *museums*!


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## yarrow (Apr 1, 2008)

bought some points yesterday and they posted to my agr account in less than 24 hours


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## Bigval109 (Apr 8, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Wow, I think the "buy points" thing is really cool.
> The cost of a roomette on the Texas Eagle LAX-CHI when I'm looking at traveling in mid-September is around $730 and the cost of a bedroom is $1,200.
> 
> So I could use 20K points... buy 10K more... and get the bedroom for only $275 more instead of paying almost $500 if I was paying in cash... Awesome!


You know It just crossed my mind that back a few years ago, AGR has a sale if you will of 20% discount on point redemtions. I think I got a cross country for 8000 points that time.  That would be nice to see that one come again.


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