# Swiss Federal Railways Says Apple Copied Its Iconic Railway Clock



## CHamilton (Sep 20, 2012)

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/swiss-federal-railways-says-apple-copied-its-iconic-railway-clock/



> Switzerland's Schweizerische Bundesbahnen, or Swiss Federal Railway service, has accused Apple of using their iconic clock in its Clock app for iPad without permission, according to a report in the Swiss newspaper Tages-Anzeiger.
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## George Harris (Sep 20, 2012)

CHamilton said:


> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/swiss-federal-railways-says-apple-copied-its-iconic-railway-clock/
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Copyrights do expire. How old is this one?


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## leemell (Sep 20, 2012)

George Harris said:


> CHamilton said:
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> > http://www.macrumors...-railway-clock/
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The clock was invented in 1944. The author (for this purpose) died in 1993. Swiss copyright law extend the author's rights to death+70 years. It hasn't expired by about 50 years yet.

Apple claims the "rectangle" phone, so SBB claims this clock. Sounds good to me. ;-)


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## George Harris (Sep 20, 2012)

leemell said:


> The clock was invented in 1944. The author (for this purpose) died in 1993. Swiss copyright law extend the author's rights to death+70 years. It hasn't expired by about 50 years yet.


Wow! That has got to be one of the world's longest.


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## Anderson (Sep 21, 2012)

George Harris said:


> leemell said:
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> > The clock was invented in 1944. The author (for this purpose) died in 1993. Swiss copyright law extend the author's rights to death+70 years. It hasn't expired by about 50 years yet.
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I think so, but not by much. There's been a stupid season of copyright extensions over the last few decades (especially in the US), and the Berne Convention actually requires life of the author+50 years. To be fair, I disagree with this (see also: Rent seeking), but...sadly, this is pretty normal.


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## leemell (Sep 21, 2012)

Anderson said:


> George Harris said:
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Report I saw said that it is 50 years for software and 70 for all the rest.


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## trainman74 (Sep 21, 2012)

George Harris said:


> Copyrights do expire.


_Trademarks_ do not, as long as they're still in use, and I think that might be more applicable here. However...



leemell said:


> The clock was invented in 1944. The author (for this purpose) died in 1993.


...since it appears to have been created on a work-for-hire basis, wouldn't that mean the Swiss railways, rather than the designer, counts as the "author"?


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## DET63 (Sep 29, 2012)

Well, the numbers do look a lot alike . . .

So does the second hand.


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## Texan Eagle (Sep 29, 2012)

DET63 said:


> Well, the numbers do look a lot alike . . .
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> So does the second hand.


This similarity is actually quite more than Apple's claim of "rectangular phone with rounded corners" copying of iPhone by Samsung.

Pot, kettle, black etc.


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## Nathanael (Oct 3, 2012)

This actually does look like it might be a trademark violation.

Copyright is subject to independent creation rules, and this design is so simplistic I think Apple could win a copyright case.

But trademark is about "likelihood of confusion". That would mean this would end up being a case over what the "field of use" for the Swiss Railways clock was.


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## cirdan (Oct 4, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> But trademark is about "likelihood of confusion". That would mean this would end up being a case over what the "field of use" for the Swiss Railways clock was.


Swiss railways actually merchandise their clock. You can buy one for your home and even buy a wristwatch version. So it does exist outside the strict railroad field of use.


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## jis (Oct 4, 2012)

Seems to me that Apple should simply change the clockface sufficiently to remove confusion, and then they can bicker in court over what proportion of Apple's revenues can be attributable to the use of that clockface and what material economic damage SBB has suffered as a result of that. I doubt that the numbers will be very large on this one.

has SBB asked for any specific mitigation/damages? If so what? Or are they just asking for cease and desist?


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## xyzzy (Oct 4, 2012)

SBB are likely to assert trademark primarily and copyright secondarily. Also, one of SBB's licensees for the clock design may assert infringement against Apple. I suspect Apple will find it difficult to prevail in a Swiss court, so some kind of negotiated settlement is likely. The real question is whether SBB has intellectual property rights outside of Switzerland.


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## xyzzy (Oct 12, 2012)

Settled quickly, as one would have expected. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57531232-37/apple-licenses-swiss-rail-clock-design/


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## CHamilton (Nov 10, 2012)

Apple pays Swiss rail $21mn over clock dispute: report



> GENEVA — US tech giant Apple has dished out 20 million Swiss francs ($21 million, 17 million euros) to compensate Swiss national rail operator SBB for using its famous clock without permission, a Swiss daily reported Saturday.
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> The company agreed in October to pay the lump sum so it could continue using SBB's Swiss-designed station clock face on its iPads and iPhones, the Tages-Anzeiger daily reported on its website, quoting several unnamed sources.


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## cirdan (Nov 13, 2012)

DET63 said:


> Well, the numbers do look a lot alike . . .
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> So does the second hand.


The time itself is quite different though.

And isn't displaying the right time ultimately what a clock is all about?


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## George Harris (Nov 13, 2012)

CHamilton said:


> Apple pays Swiss rail $21mn over clock dispute: report
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Given the size of Apple, that is pocket change. This comes across as looking like doing something to try to save face for all parties.


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