# Pensioner's Progress: Visiting India on a Pension...



## caravanman (Mar 27, 2021)

Having posted a partial report yesterday of my first visit to India, I thought folk might enjoy reading one taken since I retired, as a contrast. India has changed at an amazing rate since 1983!
Please click the link:

Visiting India on a Pension...


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## oregon pioneer (Mar 27, 2021)

I think I remember reading this one (or has there been more than one general strike immediately upon your arrival?). I am sure your wife would have missed you, if you had not returned alive from the trip...

I always enjoy your travels!


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## caravanman (Mar 27, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> I think I remember reading this one (or has there been more than one general strike immediately upon your arrival?). I am sure your wife would have missed you, if you had not returned alive from the trip...
> I always enjoy your travels!


You have confused me, Jennifer!
I don't have a wife, and the general strike was a different trip, when I started in Trivandrum. No strike in this tale. I don't think I posted this on AU before, but may well have done, my memory is not what it used to be. (I can't remember what it used to be...)


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## oregon pioneer (Mar 27, 2021)

Ah, I just went to the link, and it looked like the one I had read before -- maybe I should go back and check again, I need to read all your tales.

And I think I may have done a little misremembering based on having read your friend's blog of his train trip to Thailand. I'll bet that's where I read about the wife-left-at-home.

Have you ever taken the train to India from Britain? Is that even possible?


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## jis (Mar 27, 2021)

You still have to cross Lake Van by boat and there is no commercial passenger service between Zahedan in Iran and some point in Baluchistan west of Quetta that I can't quite remember off the top of my head. 

On the plus side you can cross the Bosphorus by train now.


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## caravanman (Mar 28, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> Ah, I just went to the link, and it looked like the one I had read before -- maybe I should go back and check again, I need to read all your tales.
> 
> And I think I may have done a little misremembering based on having read your friend's blog of his train trip to Thailand. I'll bet that's where I read about the wife-left-at-home.
> 
> Have you ever taken the train to India from Britain? Is that even possible?



A Short Walk in the Hindu Hush... *

All understood Jennifer. The quiet and deserted Tanjore that I found on my arrival might have been taken for a strike in progress if one was having a quick look, but was the day after the Diwali celebrations. 

Ian, of Thailand trip fame, still travels widely, usually with his wife, and has driven his home converted small camper around Europe and to Morocco, where it had to be abandoned after breaking down! 

The train travel book that I most enjoyed was Paul Theroux's "Great Railway Bazaar." He travels to India and all over by train where possible, but I don't recall which sections of his route were off the rails. Sadly what was posible in the recent past has changed through politics, but the routes through the former USSR satellite states are probably easier these days.
I would like to take the train route to Istanboul one day, I think the ferry across the Bosphorus might be more fun than the train tunnel underneath.

* Title from Eric Newby's "A Short Walk in the Hindu Kush" Recommended read for mountaineering fans!


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## jis (Mar 28, 2021)

Getting a visa to travel through Turkmenistan without an official escort tagging along is next to impossible even now. The other ex-Soviet Stans are fine.


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## jis (Mar 28, 2021)

But then again, being able to go through the Stans will not get you to India by rail (even theoretically), without going through Iran and Balochistan (part of Pakistan).

Speaking of Istanbul, you'll have to change trains there anyway, so might as well stop over for a few days, and then you can cross the Bosphorus multiple times by multiple means. Crossing it by road via the suspension bridge is not a bad experience either.

As a Brit you might find it marginally easier to negotiate Iran than we from across the pond here in the US. At least you do have an Embassy in Tehran, and don't have to operate through the Pakistan Embassy to get visas and stuff, when you can get one that is, and not also get the FBI and the CIA and the DHS and half a dozen other alphabet soup get excited about you


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## caravanman (Mar 28, 2021)

I think I would be very happy indeed to spend a few days in Istanbul, I have only flown direct to the Turkish holiday resorts so far. 
I don't imagine that I will be going to Iran anytime soon, although I think we only hear one side of the story, as always... The UK got paid for some military hardware that we didn't deliver, and didn't refund either, so probably Brits are not too welcome either. I should obtain an Irish passport under the Irish diaspora rules, welcome everywhere and still be in the EU!


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## oregon pioneer (Mar 28, 2021)

Jishnu and Eddie, I am enjoying your delightful convo about traveling in the east! Ed, I followed Ian's blog all the way to Thailand and now I do remember that his wife flew there to meet him at the end of it, didn't she? The trip was just so fascinating, including the boat across the lake, and the rail gauge changeover. I don't remember all the details, but I remember being awed by how much of a planning challenge it must have been, and by how many cultures he navigated successfully.

I will not likely ever get further than western Europe (maybe not even that far after this), but I enjoy dreaming about visiting my friends in more far-flung places (Moldova and Australia). And India has always fascinated me.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 28, 2021)

caravanman said:


> The UK got paid for some military hardware that we didn't deliver, and didn't refund either, so probably Brits are not too welcome either.



Is that the two battleships the Ottomans were having built by the British in 1914, and which the British seized before they could be delivered, thus ensuring that the Ottomans would side with the Germans?

Ottoman entry into World War I - Wikipedia 



> On 28 July 1914 Winston Churchill asked for the requisition of two modern warships being built by British shipyards for the Ottoman navy. These were _Sultân Osmân-ı Evvel_, which had been completed and was making preparations to leave, and _Reşadiye_. Despite questions about the legality of such a seizure, the request was granted at a Cabinet meeting on 31 July, together with an offer to Turkey to pay for the ships. On 2 August, the British requisitioned them, thereby alienating pro-British elements in Constantinople.
> 
> 
> > HMS Erin - Wikipedia
> > HMS Agincourt (1913) - Wikipedia


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## jis (Mar 28, 2021)

Winston Churchill caused more havoc single handedly in the ME between the wars than many of his aficionados are willing to acknowledge.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 28, 2021)

jis said:


> Winston Churchill caused more havoc single handedly in the ME between the wars than many of his aficionados are willing to acknowledge.


Most overrated World Leader ever!( He took credit for what others did,and was Wrong about lots of things, but I'll admit he was an inspiring Speaker!)


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## v v (Mar 29, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Most overrated World Leader ever!( He took credit for what others did,and was Wrong about lots of things, but I'll admit he was an inspiring Speaker!)



Concise Churchill summary


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## v v (Mar 29, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> Have you ever taken the train to India from Britain? Is that even possible?



Just starting researching this and the flat answer is yes for a Brit providing having a minder while in Iran and taking a few chances through Pakistan is acceptable. Only at the beginning of working out how do-able in reality this is in current times (Covid aside), Pakistan may be the stumbling block though. 

Ed and Jis have far more information than I especially from the Pakistan border onwards as it's not a journey we considered until very recently, although we have tried to visit Iran twice since 2001 and haven't made it yet for very different reasons.


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## caravanman (Mar 29, 2021)

The issues between Iran and Britain stem from more recent times:

Why Britain owes Iran £450m - and why it might finally pay it back

I agree with you, Jennifer, that Ian's trip was amazing. He is a very interesting guy, at one time he lived full time in a converted double decker London bus! He now lives on a small holding (mini farm) and brews his own beer. I am always waiting for his next project!

I am thankful for having been able to travel so much in the past, goodness knows if we will be able to overcome the present Covid scourge.

For folk wanting to view recent travel conditions in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, I highly recommend youtube "Indigo Traveller" channel.

Visiting Iran. Click here for video.


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## Ziv (Mar 29, 2021)

I loved Great Railway Bazaar! The characters were as memorable as the scenery. I still shudder at the thought of getting Duffilled (accidentally left behind at a railway stop). I found myself grabbing my passport, wallet and a warm jacket (and shoes, not slippers!) every time I stepped off the Trans-Siberian for a breath of fresh air. Just in case. 
I saw two smokers get left behind on the Coast Starlight several years back. They had gotten on the wrong side of the conductor early and I think the early departure was a spiteful one. So I made sure to stay on the good side of the provodnik in Russia.
I still hesitate to step inside a train station en route to my destination for more than a quick recce for fear that the train will leave early, and leave me behind. LOL! It makes me smile just to think about getting Duffilled.



caravanman said:


> A Short Walk in the Hindu Hush... *
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## v v (Mar 29, 2021)

Question for Ed and Jis.

When travelling we eat less meat than is usual in our diet, I would say at home we eat a little more vegetatian than meat meals anyway.

Two questions really. Would it be easily possible to eat only vegetarian meals in India? 

Are curry meals whether meat or vegetable the majority of meal options?

Don't mean to hijack your thread Mr caravanman but having the opportunity of having 2 experts in the same place is too tempting.

ps: I am ambivalent to curry, certainly wouldn't want to eat it every day.

pps: Pakistan possibly looks like being for the young and brave/foolish traveller, a tough nut to crack with so many areas carrying a high risk.


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## caravanman (Mar 30, 2021)

Hi Jamie,

I would say that the large majority of folk in India are vegetarian, and you will have no trouble at all finding vegetarian meals.
Most of the UK Indian restaurants are run by Bangladeshi people, so the impression we get is influenced by their cuisine, a Northern or Mogul, less vegetarian style.
South Indian food is quite different, and tends to be a lighter type of cooking, less oil, less breads, dare I say more vegetarian. Each state has its own style of staple food favourites.

As to curry itself, it is not exactly a concept in India. Indian folk seem to enjoy a level of "spice" in most of their foods, there are many different spices and flavours added to different dishes.
Some foods, for example "idlies" are plain rice cakes, and one adds some mild flavours to them with a choice of "sambar", a very mild sauce, or a coconut flavour sauce.

There are many hotels that cater for the better off Indian guests in most cities, and one can find non spiced items on their menues. Those in tourist spots are aware that internalional visitors may prefer mild foods. One can ask for no spices in omlette, etc. There are many other styles of cooking to be found in India, such as Chinese influences, pizza, even KFC in larger cities.

I am lucky in that I enjoy Indian flavours, but I am not a foodie as such, and usually happy with a packet of Indian biscuits and a cup of tea for breakfast, or a dosa rice pancake with veg filling and a coffee.

I am sure Jishnu will have some input, being a more up market type of guy than myself.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I am sure Jishnu will have some input, being a more up market type of guy than myself



Surely not, I think you are just understated.

Wonderful description, thanks Ed. I think from your description we could really enjoy trying all sorts of meals if we can get across very hot spices are not our best thing.

Had a Gumbo meal in Louisiana a few years ago, nearly blew my head off much to the amusement of other dinners, even got applause for finishing it. Maybe someone served up a 'special' version as I mentioned to the server that I had never tried it before...

You have given us confidence that we would survive India, just got to find a way of getting to India without using a plane and not from the north.


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## caravanman (Mar 30, 2021)

One further tip is to have a look at the guided tours available to India, from folk like Newmarket Tours, etc. They often state the names of the hotels they use, and these places will be sure to cater for western pallets. 
There are many flavouful but mild dishes in India, it is not all about red hot chilli curry by any means.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

caravanman said:


> One further tip is to have a look at the guided tours available to India, from folk like Newmarket Tours, etc. They often state the names of the hotels they use, and these places will be sure to cater for western pallets.
> There are many flavouful but mild dishes in India, it is not all about red hot chilli curry by any means.



Smart idea, would at least have different options if we needed some.

Not sure we have western pallets though as probably our favourites are Cajun, Vietnamese, Thai, US BBQ and seafood when at the north Holland coast. Extremely rare for us to eat fast food in or out of the restaurants but often visit McDonalds in the US for a cup of tea (all over the US McD's tea has been excellent) but mostly without eating there.

The exception to not eating in fast fooderies is Wendys and Crackbarrel US style breakfasts which we eat most days we are there, as unhealthy as hell but tastes so good!

Thanks for taking the time, we both appreciate the help.

How are you doing now some of the restrictions were removed yesterday? From a distance there appears to be a lightening of the mood across the country.


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## jis (Mar 30, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Hi Jamie,
> 
> I would say that the large majority of folk in India are vegetarian, and you will have no trouble at all finding vegetarian meals.


There will be no trouble in getting a vegetarian meal.

But a majority of Indians are not vegetarians. A majority of upper caste Indians are vegetarians. But this is currently a politically fraught subject in India. Most tourists would not come by the invisible lowest caste Indians, so they can be excused for forming a wrong impression. 


> Most of the UK Indian restaurants are run by Bangladeshi people, so the impression we get is influenced by their cuisine, a Northern or Mogul, less vegetarian style.


Irrespective of who runs the Indian restaurants, the normal north Indian cuisine served in them is northwest Indian. Very few Bangladeshi eat at home what they serve in those restaurants. Trust me, I am of the same ethnic group. A Bengali.

We generally eat tremendous variety of Fish, Rice, Daal, Eggs (Chicken and Duck) and a mind boggling variety of Vegetarian dishes too. Jokingly we say that we can make a Saag preparation out of virtually any pile of fresh leaves collected in the field.

On the meat side Goat, Mutton and Chicken are popular. Among the Muslims Water Buffalo and even some true Beef goes, but they are generally more expensive and there fore not a staple food like Fish.

The restaurant cuisine in the west has more to do with the British love affair with the so called "Martial Races" of northwest India than with what Indian in general eat. That tradition of Restaurant fare lives on after almost a century. It is actually quite hard to get real Bengali Cuisine in restaurants. Many Bangladeshi restaurants will serve it off menu in the back room if you ask them in Bengali. Oddly enough, until about 30 years back it was hard to get good Bengali cuisine even in upscale restaurants in Calcutta. Now the Bengali Cuisine restaurants are the rage in Kolkata.


> South Indian food is quite different, and tends to be a lighter type of cooking, less oil, less breads, dare I say more vegetarian. Each state has its own style of staple food favourites.


Indeed, as you might have figured out from my short rant on Bengalis and Bangladeshis above.


> As to curry itself, it is not exactly a concept in India. Indian folk seem to enjoy a level of "spice" in most of their foods, there are many different spices and flavours added to different dishes.


Curries in the present form were actually popularized by Railway Refreshment Rooms in India. There is even a thing called "Railway Curry" that is served even today. The popular non-veg menu items in the Delhi Jn. Non Vegetarian Refreshment Room in the '60s were "Mutton Curry Rice", "Rice Curry" (that was Goat), "Chicken Curry Rice" and "Egg Curry Rice". There was and is a separate Vegetarian Refreshment Room.

But indeed if you go to a north Indian home, they would generally not be eating curries too often. We seldom eat curries at home, though the spices used in curries are used in other preparations that taste nothing like the classic curry.


> Some foods, for example "idlies" are plain rice cakes, and one adds some mild flavours to them with a choice of "sambar", a very mild sauce, or a coconut flavour sauce.


You need to make sure that you ask for a mild sauce. There are certain parts, coastal Andhra Pradesh comes to mind, where normally they will serve a sauce that will clear your bowels for the next two days. 


> There are many hotels that cater for the better off Indian guests in most cities, and one can find non spiced items on their menues. Those in tourist spots are aware that internalional visitors may prefer mild foods. One can ask for no spices in omlette, etc. There are many other styles of cooking to be found in India, such as Chinese influences, pizza, even KFC in larger cities.


Indian Railways IRCTC food service will generally have at least one item identified as "Western" on their fare which will be something like a roast Chicken with Potatoes and such, pretty bland stuff, for those that cannot handle spices.

Another dish that is quite popular for a quick meal these days is the Biriyani. It is a Rice preparation with some spices and a protein additive of your choice (if non-veg). It is a meal in itself, and you don't have to deal with separate sauces and what not. Nothing to spill. Usually may come with a bit of Achaar - a spicy preserve of Mango or other veggies. Just avoid the hot stuff.

Incidentally beware that a very popular additive to Omelettes is little pieces of green chilly, which can be hit or miss as far as the level of heat goes. They are completely unpredictable, but it is also easy to sort them out and avoid them even if they are in the Omelette. They usually do not propagate their heat to the rest of the Omelette. They do add a nice subtle flavor if you like such.


> I am sure Jishnu will have some input, being a more up market type of guy than myself.


Hope I obliged adequately  Actually, though I would know more about down market street food and local food than up market anything since I seldom go to any restaurants in India. Those are for the tourists and foreigners and for extremely special celebrations where you want to spend a lot of money.


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## caravanman (Mar 30, 2021)

v v said:


> Not sure we have western pallets though ...
> 
> How are you doing now some of the restrictions were removed yesterday? From a distance there appears to be a lightening of the mood across the country.



You are both very widely travelled, and I never imagined that you expected fish and chips or roast beef and yorkshire pudding on the menu , worldwide.  By western pallets, I just meant that a variety of international and less highly spiced foods could be expected there.

I tend to eat fairly healthily at home, but am quite happy with a big mac or krispy creme doughnut when in America!

I have hardly been out much at all, but starting to think about local travel again, nothing possible for another 6 weeks at least in the UK. Enjoyed an al fresco picnic lunch in the park today, nice and sunny!

I have learnt something today from Jishnu too! I had always asumed that as Bangladesh is a Muslim country, and Muslims eat beef, that was the basis of the "British style Indian restaurant". 

Anyway, getting there without flying, or not arriving via the north, seems pretty impossible? Why the "no fly" rule?


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## jis (Mar 30, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I have hardly been out much at all, but starting to think about local travel again, nothing possible for another 6 weeks at least in the UK. Enjoyed an al fresco picnic lunch in the park today, nice and sunny!


I have been holed up for a year too. I took my first train ride on SunRail weekend before last, and had lunch with @pennyk at our old tried and trusted eatery in Winter Park outside of course.

I am booked for a round trip by Amtrak to New York end of April. I also just booked my tickets on Amtrak for the AU Gathering which will hopefully take place in Chicago in October. So we'll see.

I am expecting to visit India early 2022, but I also expect to get a booster shot before doing so, since I will be coming upto my one year anniversary for the vaccination by then.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

caravanman said:


> You are both very widely travelled, and I never imagined that you expected fish and chips or roast beef and yorkshire pudding on the menu , worldwide.  By western pallets, I just meant that a variety of international and less highly spiced foods could be expected there.



Yep, take your point.




caravanman said:


> I tend to eat fairly healthily at home, but am quite happy with a big mac or krispy creme doughnut when in America!



We all succumb




caravanman said:


> I have hardly been out much at all, but starting to think about local travel again, nothing possible for another 6 weeks at least in the UK. Enjoyed an al fresco picnic lunch in the park today, nice and sunny!



Do you still have your caravan? That sited somewhere which isn't home would make for an excellent change of scenery. What about a trip to the east coast, is that allowed at the moment?




caravanman said:


> Anyway, getting there without flying, or not arriving via the north, seems pretty impossible? Why the "no fly" rule?



Top of the list is it's a planning challenge to get anywhere at a fair distance without flying. We both love public transport too as so much life goes on there, and as you know well the unexpected often happens.

I'm not anti flying per se, it's efficient and most times speedy too (although with recent competition on short haul routes from city center to city center from high speed rail that doesn't always ring true). But there are negatives too. Airports to me are unpleasant and sterile, a plane certainly is sterile and in economy not as comfortable as a Greyhound. Boarding and leaving a plane can be a battleground, not a very attractive way to spend a day.

The enviromental cost of flying is starting to become a factor too, but maybe in the near future more effort towards mitigating that will be made?

Last but not least Is there ever a better way to travel than on a long distance train, if there is we haven't tried it yet.

If crossing Pakistan remains a problem I have a plan stolen from a Michael Palin travelogue (Around the world in 80 days) where he took a Dhow across to India from the Emirates or Muscat. Pretty basic, but if needs must so can we be. There used to be a ferry from the UAE to India but that stopped a while ago, so as this plan developes I'll start to make serious enquiries about joining a cargo Dhow.
Have to say though the idea is not only from Palin. 

Years ago Rosie befriended a younger teacher Sonia who grew up in Dubai and wanted to teach in the UK, she was a bit of a lost soul as she knew no one in the area at all.
After a few years Sonia was travelling back to Dubai during a school holiday and asked Rosie if she wanted to go with her for the 2 weeks. Rosie and I had just met but the arrangements had been made so off she went. 
On returning Rosie described a place most of us in Essex had only heard about, never seen, and because Sonia's dad was a man of influence Rosie met people and went to places only those living there would know. 
Apart from the differentness (is that a word?) of this Gulf country two things really stood out., the gold souk and 'The Creek'. The Creek really grabbed her and me on listening to her tales. 15 years later and Dubai had changed out of recognition, but The Creek hadn't. We stayed in Dubai for 3 days on a stopover (ok we were flying), Rosie said The Creek was exactly the same as before.
It took my breath away seeing the big Dhows being loaded and unloaded, it would have looked the same a 500 years before. One ship was unloading (magic?) carpets from Iran, the men unloading were bare chested and and bare feet, some wore turbans. We rented a small ferry boat to sail all around that amazing harbour, all afternoon, seeing these fairly large wooden ships towering above you on the water was magical, that was the point I wondered if we could ever sail in one.

Putting Palin's film and our experiences in Dubai together with the problems crossing Pakistan by road and rail it seems an obvious method to investigate to get to India without flying.

Long long answer to a short question, sorry.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

jis said:


> There will be no trouble in getting a vegetarian meal.
> 
> But a majority of Indians are not vegetarians. A majority of upper caste Indians are vegetarians. But this is currently a politically fraught subject in India. Most tourists would not come by the invisible lowest caste Indians, so they can be excused for forming a wrong impression.
> 
> ...



Lost for words, amazing, and thank you.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

jis said:


> I have been holed up for a year too. I took my first train ride on SunRail weekend before last, and had lunch with @pennyk at our old tried and trusted eatery in Winter Park outside of course.
> 
> I am booked for a round trip by Amtrak to New York end of April. I also just booked my tickets on Amtrak for the AU Gathering which will hopefully take place in Chicago in October. So we'll see.
> 
> I am expecting to visit India early 2022, but I also expect to get a booster shot before doing so, since I will be coming upto my one year anniversary for the vaccination by then.



You sound confident about your travel plans, really hope you right as it's what I believe too. I think when a large majority of a country is imunised the outlook to most people will change almost overnight.


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## v v (Mar 30, 2021)

Ed and Jis, what about a joint book from the visitor and the insider, 'How to travel through India like a local'.

Thanks for indulging me on your thread Ed, and many many thanks to both of you for giving so much great information, it will take a while to digest (pun intended).


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## caravanman (Mar 30, 2021)

I can't fault you on your desire to sail from Dubai to India, gosh what an adventure that would be on a dhow! Back in 1983, we hoped to go by sea from Madras, as it was then, to Malaysia. Sadly we were a few years too late for the romance of such a trip. There are still places to be found as a passenger aboard some of the commercial ships today, but I know that is not what you intend.

Sadly the caravan was sold some years ago, it would be great as a country residence these days. I will get my second vaccine shot early May, then see what the travel rules are after 17 May. We are not allowed to holiday anywhere untill after May 17, but even that depends, etc, etc. I fancy a train trip to Scotland but they might be under different rules, or even building a wall by then, depending on the elections in May. 

I want to start my youtube channel instead of writing a book, and become rich and famous through the advertising revenue generated. (Don't hold your breath...) 

Any chance to chit chat about India, travel, trains, is always welcome by me, so please post as much as you wish. (Chit Chat were a brand of Indian buiscuits in 1983, not sure if they survive today...)


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I can't fault you on your desire to sail from Dubai to India, gosh what an adventure that would be on a dhow! Back in 1983, we hoped to go by sea from Madras, as it was then, to Malaysia. Sadly we were a few years too late for the romance of such a trip. There are still places to be found as a passenger aboard some of the commercial ships today, but I know that is not what you intend.
> 
> Sadly the caravan was sold some years ago, it would be great as a country residence these days. I will get my second vaccine shot early May, then see what the travel rules are after 17 May. We are not allowed to holiday anywhere untill after May 17, but even that depends, etc, etc. I fancy a train trip to Scotland but they might be under different rules, or even building a wall by then, depending on the elections in May.
> 
> ...


There's a certain US rocket scientist we know swears by Ding Dongs, apparently they bring a certain clarity of thought? We've just discovered LuLus in France, but that is a longer story.
Don't get me started on the lady who ran up to us in a supermarket in Homestead, Florida with a terrifed desperate look on her face, that was about a biscuit too.

UAE to Mumbai: Dhows are now difficult apparently, but freight or container ships that will take passengers are to be had if you look hard enough.


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## caravanman (Mar 31, 2021)

Can't beat a Wagon Wheel, especially the jammy ones! Mind you those Aussie Tim Tams are pretty good!
Confusing about biscuits in USA, they seem to be some sort of scones? I guess that's the way the biscuit crumbles...


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## jis (Mar 31, 2021)

v v said:


> You sound confident about your travel plans, really hope you right as it's what I believe too. I think when a large majority of a country is imunised the outlook to most people will change almost overnight.


I guess one plans based on the best information available.

My situation as far as traveling to India is concerned is different from many. Since I am an OCI Card holder I don;t need to get a visitor's visa of any sort, which are currently not available except for emergency travel. If I wished I could travel to India today, and clearly quite a number of people are traveling to and from between the US and India, enough to make it worthwhile for United and Air India to run 5 nonstop flights (777 or 787) between the US and India every day. I suppose the travelers are mostly US Citizens with OCI or Indian Citizens with US Green Cards.

Anyhow, the best info we have for now suggests that by October the currently developing wave will have substantially subsided and by early 2022, travel to India to will be much safer, after the currently developing second wave subsides and significant part of the country is vaccinated.

But of course, we'll see, and change plans as needed.


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

Jis, nothing to do with India or Bangladesh but noticed your location. 

Do you take any interest of the happenings at Kennedy Space Centre, ie launches? If/when we get to the US this coming autumn we plan to ride a few trains, be in Chicago if the happening happens, and try to be in place for the first SLS launch.

If it doesn't have the slightest interest to you then don't give it a second thought, happy to buy you a beer though if we are within 50 miles of you.

Ed, I'll start a different thread re visiting Kennedy, just though this will catch Jis's eye here.


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## jis (Mar 31, 2021)

v v said:


> Jis, nothing to do with India or Bangladesh but noticed your location.
> 
> Do you take any interest of the happenings at Kennedy Space Centre, ie launches? If/when we get to the US this coming autumn we plan to ride a few trains, be in Chicago if the happening happens, and try to be in place for the first SLS launch.
> 
> ...


I live 25 miles due south of the launch pads at KSC and the Canaveral Space Force Station. As you know, only the 39 pads are in KSC. 40 and above are all in CSFS.

I am an Annual Member of KSC Visitor's Center. SLS launch will be a zoo down at KSC and will also probably cost several hundred dollars in viewing tickets. I will probably watch it from one of the beaches and stay away from KSC.

I generally ignore most pedestrian SpaceX and ULA launches. Only pay attention to really large rockets, Delta IV Heavy and such, and manned launches these days. There are way too many other launches to worry about. Besides I can see them all from my back porch if the weather is more or less clear and I am in the mood, and I can definitely hear them even sitting at my workstation inside.


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

jis said:


> I live 25 miles due south of the launch pads at KSC and the Canaveral Space Force Station. As you know, only the 39 pads are in KSC. 40 and above are all in CSFS.
> 
> I am an Annual Member of KSC Visitor's Center. SLS launch will be a zoo down at KSC and will also probably cost several hundred dollars in viewing tickets. I will probably watch it from one of the beaches and stay away from KSC.
> 
> I generally ignore most pedestrian SpaceX and ULA launches. Only pay attention to really large rockets, Delta IV Heavy and such, and manned launches these days. There are way too many other launches to worry about. Besides I can see them all from my back porch if the weather is more or less clear and I am in the mood, and I can definitely hear them even sitting at my workstation inside.



Didn't expect that, lucky you. SLS being unmanned, does that interest you?

When in the KSC area we usually stay in a small hotel in Cocoa Beach south, almost neighbours. I'll start a KSC thread in a month or so as it's very unfair to hi-jack Ed's thread.

How about is there a best time to visit India and Bangladesh re the monsoons and general weather?


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## jis (Mar 31, 2021)

v v said:


> Didn't expect that, lucky you. SLS being unmanned, does that interest you?


Sure. Big rocket!


> How about is there a best time to visit India and Bangladesh re the monsoons and general weather?


Winter. Airfares are also the lowest from about the second week of January to the end of February - mid March.


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Can't beat a Wagon Wheel, especially the jammy ones!



I remember them being big was the lasting memeory


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## caravanman (Mar 31, 2021)

I have often been impatient to head off to India again on another mini adventure, and have visited as early as late August, big mistake! The monsoons tends to be tailing off around then, but it is too hot, especially in Rajasthan. October to March is said to be the best travel season, I have always visited before Xmas time, so it would be interesting to see how things are in Jis's recommended period. I seem to think North India can experience quite a lot of fog in the months after Xmas?


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## mcropod (Mar 31, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Can't beat a Wagon Wheel, especially the jammy ones! Mind you those Aussie Tim Tams are pretty good!
> Confusing about biscuits in USA, they seem to be some sort of scones? I guess that's the way the biscuit crumbles...



Tim Tams are a national treasure right enough! I seek your advice as a trans-sib veteran. I was considering bringing some packets of TTs as gifts for the prodvonistas in my aborted TS trip last year. How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?


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## caravanman (Mar 31, 2021)

mcropod said:


> Tim Tams are a national treasure right enough! I seek your advice as a trans-sib veteran. I was considering bringing some packets of TTs as gifts for the prodvonistas in my aborted TS trip last year. How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?


Sorry, never taken the Trans Siberian, but I am sure Tim Tams would be acceptable. Any gesture of friendship is usually appreciated. (I got a free gift of ginsing when sharing my Chicago hostel room a few years back. Thousands of foreign visitors for Lions International meeting!) Jamie, VV, is the Trans Siberian chap...


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

mcropod said:


> How d'you reckon that would go down as a small gift for them?



Never seen or had a Tim Tam but if Ed says they're good they'll go down a treat. Just like anywhere, people enjoy recognition for doing a good job although tipping and gifts are not often practiced in Russia from my experience. 

It will also depend on the route you take, more foreign visitors on the Moscow - China routes than the Vladivostok one, in winter anyway.

Trip of a lifetime, like nothing else and one of the few rail trips I would do twice at the drop of a hat, that and the Surfliner...

ps: watch out for the travelling military onboard, their Wodka drinking is legendary, and you can't say no if offered...


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## v v (Mar 31, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I have often been impatient to head off to India again on another mini adventure, and have visited as early as late August, big mistake! The monsoons tends to be tailing off around then, but it is too hot, especially in Rajasthan. October to March is said to be the best travel season, I have always visited before Xmas time, so it would be interesting to see how things are in Jis's recommended period. I seem to think North India can experience quite a lot of fog in the months after Xmas?



Do you always try to cover the whole country when off to India or just a section. I suppose if it's only a section then time of year could play a big part.

BTW, will you try to get to the Gathering this year or is the Covid situation too serious? Not sure if you are vaccinated yet, we're not as couldn't easily get into and out of the UK last week. The people we know who are vaccinated appear to be liberated, even serious people. 

Thanks for your inputs Ed, much appreciated. We're looking at various journeys for the next 18-24 months and will decide in what order as situations unfold. We are betting one of the safest countries in the world by September will be the US, and for various reasons would do almost anything to get to see the SLS rocket launch.

What a time we are living through eh, especially us Brits with Brexit tacked onto a worldwide pandemic.


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## caravanman (Mar 31, 2021)

Hi Jamie,

I would love to visit America again, it was next on my itinerary when Covid blew in. Funny enough, I was tonight just checking air fares to NYC and Chicago around Oct 2021... 

I have had my first AZ jab, next one due in early May.

I enjoy the long train rides in India, so have tended to travel around all over on each trip so far. I am not sure what shape my next visit will take, I would imagine that I will spend more time in one area. I felt that a shorter trip with a few more comforts might be better next time... Gosh, anywhere away from these 4 walls would be great now, except Skegness...

As for Brexit, I found that with having Irish parents, I am seen as automatically an Irish citizen too, so that is good news if I can remain in the EU.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 31, 2021)

v v said:


> Never seen or had a Tim Tam but if Ed says they're good they'll go down a treat. Just like anywhere, people enjoy recognition for doing a good job although tipping and gifts are not often practiced in Russia from my experience.



I presume that the Tim Tam is different from the Tam Tam.


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## mcropod (Apr 1, 2021)

v v said:


> Never seen or had a Tim Tam but if Ed says they're good they'll go down a treat. Just like anywhere, people enjoy recognition for doing a good job although tipping and gifts are not often practiced in Russia from my experience.
> 
> It will also depend on the route you take, more foreign visitors on the Moscow - China routes than the Vladivostok one, in winter anyway.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that! My itinerary had me start at Vladivostok and end in Moscow, as it'd start off in my timezone with the clock-jumping on the return in the air. I was doing it in stages with quite a few overnighters off-train, so not in one go. I also didn't want the complications of China and Mongolia on this occasion - maybe they'll be for Ron.


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## v v (Apr 1, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Hi Jamie,
> 
> I would love to visit America again, it was next on my itinerary when Covid blew in. Funny enough, I was tonight just checking air fares to NYC and Chicago around Oct 2021...
> 
> ...



What a gift they gave you, priceless.

Ireland is at or near the top of the list for places to live when we sell up here. We have visited a few times recently, have 4 cousins with families who moved there 10-15 years ago and by all accounts the Irish are cranky enough for us to feel at home there. Not got your good fortune to be Irish, you really are blessed.


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## v v (Apr 1, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> I presume that the Tim Tam is different from the Tam Tam.



Would like to help you out on this but I don't know what I'm talking about.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 1, 2021)

v v said:


> Would like to help you out on this but I don't know what I'm talking about.


Passover Original Tam Tams Crackers - Manischewitz 
Sorry, I guess the link in my original post wasn't obvious
These are little hexagonal mini-matzahs. They are allegedly a Jewish tradition, however, not in my family.  We just make do with regular matzah.


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## v v (Apr 1, 2021)

mcropod said:


> Thanks for that! My itinerary had me start at Vladivostok and end in Moscow, as it'd start off in my timezone with the clock-jumping on the return in the air. I was doing it in stages with quite a few overnighters off-train, so not in one go. I also didn't want the complications of China and Mongolia on this occasion - maybe they'll be for Ron.



You are obviously travelling the TransSib to ride the train plus see and visit Russia in detail, most people think that is the best idea too. We are hooked into train life and were fascinated in how we would feel and cope being 6 1/2 days on a single train that only stops for 10 or 20 minutes at a time, it's just a different approach.

Which season do you intend travel in, do you have a preference?

Generalising the 2 trains that head south are a mix of visitors to Russia and commuter. The Vladovostok (in winter) is almost a commuter train only, Russians made up all the numbers except for the example below. There were only 4 western visitors on the entire train we travelled on, maybe 18 passenger cars in total with about 80% occupancy.

On our trip from Moscow eastwards there were 2 Third Class cars at the rear of the train, there were some Russians but mainly North Koreans going home after a stint of work near to Moscow, could be the longest commute in the world? at least by train. 

Funny thing was the First Class car just along from ours was almost empty the whole way even though there were one or two high ranking military officers on board. Passing through to the diner it felt a bit soulless because of the lack of passengers.

You have a real adventure ahead of you, hope the situation allows you to travel soon.


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## v v (Apr 1, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Passover Original Tam Tams Crackers - Manischewitz
> Sorry, I guess the link in my original post wasn't obvious
> These are little hexagonal mini-matzahs. They are allegedly a Jewish tradition, however, not in my family.  We just make do with regular matzah.



Learn something new every day, where in the US would we buy them?


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## MARC Rider (Apr 1, 2021)

v v said:


> Learn something new every day, where in the US would we buy them?


Most American supermarkets have a shelf of "Jewish" or "kosher" packaged food items, usually near the selection of "Mexican" and "Asian" packaged food items. The Jewish items will include matzah, gefilte fish in jars, kosher grape juice, Maneschewitz wine (if the local liquor laws allow), and a few Israeli items. You'll find this stuff even in some pretty unlikely locations. The H-E-B store in Uvalde Texas stocked Sabra hummus, lox, bagels, pickled herring (a Jewish delicacy of eastern European origin), Maneschewitz wine and similar items. Since I believe that my presence in Uvalde was a major increase in the Jewish population of the area, I wondered who was buying this stuff. Then in the checkout line I saw a Mexican-American cowboy with a bottle of Maneschewitz wine in his shopping cart.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 1, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Most American supermarkets have a shelf of "Jewish" or "kosher" packaged food items, usually near the selection of "Mexican" and "Asian" packaged food items. The Jewish items will include matzah, gefilte fish in jars, kosher grape juice, Maneschewitz wine (if the local liquor laws allow), and a few Israeli items. You'll find this stuff even in some pretty unlikely locations. The H-E-B store in Uvalde Texas stocked Sabra hummus, lox, bagels, pickled herring (a Jewish delicacy of eastern European origin), Maneschewitz wine and similar items. Since I believe that my presence in Uvalde was a major increase in the Jewish population of the area, I wondered who was buying this stuff. Then in the checkout line I saw a Mexican-American cowboy with a bottle of Maneschewitz wine in his shopping cart.


Surprisingly Mexico has a fairly large Jewish population, especially in the Cities.

I'm surprised Uvalde, out in the Big Nowhere, would have that stuff in Texas favorite Supermarket!

Also, when I was a boy in the South, all the places we lived in ( most Military Bases were in Small Towns)had Jewish families that were Merchants who ran most of the Stores in town.(there were also Lebanese Merchsnts in lots of the towns)


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## caravanman (Apr 2, 2021)

The Aussie Tim Tams are quite different to the Tam Tams mentioned above.

I guess they are closer to a UK "penguin" biscuit than anything else.




(No Penguins are harmed during the production of these items.  )


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## MARC Rider (Apr 2, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Also, when I was a boy in the South, all the places we lived in ( most Military Bases were in Small Towns)had Jewish families that were Merchants who ran most of the Stores in town.(there were also Lebanese Merchsnts in lots of the towns)



Most of those Jewish communities are long gone. Between Wal-Mart and other big-box stores trashing the business of the small local stores, and the fact that the kids of these small-town merchants would go off to college and pick some other profession than running Dad's store, the Jews of the South are now located in the larger cities.


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## v v (Apr 2, 2021)

Ed, we've just this second booked our train to the Gathering, what about you?


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## caravanman (Apr 2, 2021)

v v said:


> Ed, we've just this second booked our train to the Gathering, what about you?



Gosh, that is exciting news! Which route are you arriving by / coming from?

I am genuinely interested in attending, but think I will wait untill I can get my ESTA renewed, and know that the US is actually open for tourists. I have been pondering hotels and such in the Chicago area this morning!  

Depending on how / when things open, I could fly direct to Chicago, and have an Amtrak related holiday after, or do the Amtrak trips first. Will see how it goes! It would be funny to finally meet up with you so far from the UK!


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## v v (Apr 2, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Gosh, that is exciting news! Which route are you arriving by / coming from?



We're completely made up, even started to smile again. We'll not take our serious hats off until we see that it's completely acceptable to travel internationally, acceptable to others and to ourselves, it's easy to change as Amtrak are allowing plenty of time to move dates.

We are travelling on the Zephyr EMY to CHI although the Texas Eagle was our first choice. The TE has remained stubbonly at over $1000 for a Roomette and for a little more we could get a bedroom which we have never used or needed, but the opportunity was there and on top of that have never travelled the CZ west to east either.
We'll probably fly to Los Angeles as Rosie sufferes jet lag a bit. We can hang around for a couple of days as we find loads to do there and like their public transport system too. Then the Coast Stalight up to EMY the day before leaving on the CZ, seems like a plan to us.




caravanman said:


> I am genuinely interested in attending, but think I will wait untill I can get my ESTA renewed, and know that the US is actually open for tourists. I have been pondering hotels and such in the Chicago area this morning!



We booked a cancellable hotel a couple of months ago, can pm you the details if you would like.




caravanman said:


> Depending on how / when things open, I could fly direct to Chicago, and have an Amtrak related holiday after, or do the Amtrak trips first. Will see how it goes! It would be funny to finally meet up with you so far from the UK!



I'll be tongue tied, over to you


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## caravanman (Apr 2, 2021)

Hi Jamie,

Yes, please let me know your hotel. I will probably stay out near the airport, rooms are much cheaper, but nothing decided yet, on any front! 

Cheers.


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## oregon pioneer (Apr 2, 2021)

v v said:


> ... have never travelled the CZ west to east either.



You will like going eastbound on the CZ, full daylight all the way over Donner Pass, wake up in Utah as you ascend Soldier Summit, then if it's late enough to be dark as you descend the Rocky Mtn Front, the lights of Denver are spectacular!


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## v v (Apr 2, 2021)

caravanman said:


> Hi Jamie,
> 
> Yes, please let me know your hotel. I will probably stay out near the airport, rooms are much cheaper, but nothing decided yet, on any front!
> 
> Cheers.



Sent you a pm then forgot to add the link. Have added the link now so if you have read the message refresh it.


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## v v (Apr 2, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> You will like going eastbound on the CZ, full daylight all the way over Donner Pass, wake up in Utah as you ascend Soldier Summit, the if it's late enough to be dark as you descend the Rocky Mtn Front, the lights of Denver are spectacular!



Thanks Jennifer, can't wait. Also looks as though the Sierras will all be in daylight too, eastbound really does work for sightseeing.

When do you think you will be able to get back east, is it anytime soon? And what about the Gathering, is that possible?


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## Ziv (Apr 2, 2021)

v v, I took the Trans Sib twice, once in the winter and once in the summer and both were nice but the winter trip was the better of the two. The unending snowy forest was simply awe inspiring! I saw a hunter or two but it was just primeval in the empty vistas. When I was looking out the window of the train car, it seemed like it was just me, the snow and the birch trees. Even the apartment buildings by the side of the tracks were almost completely dark at night with only a few lights glowing.
But the amount of time it takes to get from Beijing to Moscow is so LLLOOOONNNGG! I can't imagine doing Vladivostok to Moscow without at least one break. I stopped at Lake Baikal and it was very nice. Relaxing in the sauna after several days of train travel was a huge plus. On my non-stop summer trip everyone in my group somehow came to the mistaken conclusion that we were one day closer to Moscow that we actually were. Not good when we all realized we were a day further out than we had thought. Stopping off en route is a good thing.
I used Monkey Shrine to get the visas and the tickets, and I recommend them. They saved me a ton of work.
Both trips I booked Soft Sleeper and ended up with 4 people on the first leg from Beijing to Ulaan Baatar and then had just one roomie in the 4 bed compartment for most of the rest of the trip. If I get to do it again, I will stop in Irkutsk again plus I will pony up the cash for the long leg and pay for a first class compartment with its own toilet, shared with just one other compartment. The toilets were the one irritating thing about the train, they get pretty dirty after a couple days.
And I would get more inventive with the dried foods I brought along. The samovar has boiling hot water so ramen is just the beginning. I hit a hiking goods store in Beijing for dehydrated food and though expensive they were worth it. I would definitely bring a tea mug with infuser built in to the mug. Some of the best conversations were with people about what they liked to add to their tea to make it the way they liked it. And I am a coffee guy normally.




v v said:


> .....
> Which season do you intend travel in, do you have a preference?
> 
> Generalising the 2 trains that head south are a mix of visitors to Russia and commuter. The Vladovostok (in winter) is almost a commuter train only, Russians made up all the numbers except for the example below. There were only 4 western visitors on the entire train we travelled on, maybe 18 passenger cars in total with about 80% occupancy.
> ...


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## Asher (Apr 2, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> You will like going eastbound on the CZ, full daylight all the way over Donner Pass, wake up in Utah as you ascend Soldier Summit, the if it's late enough to be dark as you descend the Rocky Mtn Front, the lights of Denver are spectacular!



Soldier Summit, A place I'm quite familiar with from long ago. I was so happy we were running late on the CZ and I was able to see it in the daylight.


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## jis (Apr 2, 2021)

I have driven around in the mountains between Provo and Soldier Summit when I used to spend my weeks in Provo/Orem. It is a fun area to explore, with some spectacular scenery and rail photography opportunities in the vicinity of Castle Gate.


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## mcropod (Apr 2, 2021)

v v - My TS booking was for late August into September last year and that'd be my travel-time preference when I can re-book.

I've heard that the (northern) winter season can be spectacular, but as that coincides with my summer, it's not a time I want to leave home for an extended period. I live in a bushfire-prone part of Oz and I don't want to be away from being able to defend it or evacuate key possessions were the balloon to go up, nor to leave my non-travelling partner to deal with things on her own.

And because all you lot decided to build your countries so far away, whenever I hit the road from Oz for a bit of a look-around to see what you're up to, I lime to go for several weeks at a time, so maximising the cost of the long trip there and back.

I was very disappointed to miss last year's opportunity, and I'm hoping I can re-establish it as soon as it's prudent to do so. I'd happily make a cross-Russia TS trip in one go, but I reckon there's so much to see along the way, it'd be a shame to gulp it down instead of savouring it. And I'd like to pay my respects to the then CCCP and its people (even if just one packet of Tim Tams at a time) for their key role in the fight against facism which helped give me the options I currently enjoy.


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## oregon pioneer (Apr 3, 2021)

v v said:


> Thanks Jennifer, can't wait. Also looks as though the Sierras will all be in daylight too, eastbound really does work for sightseeing.



Sorry to just use the names of the mountain passes. For those who don't live in the mountains:
Donner Pass is the summit of the Sierra Range between Sacramento and Reno
Soldier Summit is the summit of the Wasatch Range between Provo and Helper (Utah).



v v said:


> When do you think you will be able to get back east, is it anytime soon? And what about the Gathering, is that possible?



I am hoping to go back east during the snowy winter months in early 2022, to see family in Boston and Vermont. Sorry, but the Gathering happens to fall at a time of year when I am busy with winter preparations of all kinds (putting up food, firewood, etc). Living off-grid has its perks, and its price.


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## v v (Apr 4, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> Sorry to just use the names of the mountain passes. For those who don't live in the mountains:
> Donner Pass is the summit of the Sierra Range between Sacramento and Reno
> Soldier Summit is the summit of the Wasatch Range between Provo and Helper (Utah).



My US geography is improving so no harm done. 




oregon pioneer said:


> I am hoping to go back east during the snowy winter months in early 2022, to see family in Boston and Vermont. Sorry, but the Gathering happens to fall at a time of year when I am busy with winter preparations of all kinds (putting up food, firewood, etc). Living off-grid has its perks, and its price.



First, that's a shame as you have many friends on AU, but nature wont wait for you if you put those jobs off.
Your last sentence is spot on, if only there was a middle way.


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## v v (Apr 4, 2021)

Ziv said:


> v v, I took the Trans Sib twice, once in the winter and once in the summer and both were nice but the winter trip was the better of the two. The unending snowy forest was simply awe inspiring! I saw a hunter or two but it was just primeval in the empty vistas. When I was looking out the window of the train car, it seemed like it was just me, the snow and the birch trees. Even the apartment buildings by the side of the tracks were almost completely dark at night with only a few lights glowing.



How many billion Birch trees does that country have. After a while the vista you describe becomes mesmeric, how can any country be so vast. What about the train stations en route, all in different brightly painted colours.

We met a couple of young men from the city of Chita, a giant city in the middle of Siberia, one of the coldest places in Siberia. I think they said it was like living on an island. Our translator was a lovely 10 year old Russian girl who was Harry Potter mad and was learning English as fast as possible.
The lads (25-28 years old) were off to Vladivostok to buy a Japanese used car, it was a mere 3 days on the TransSib to Vlad and they were having a ball. In real life one owned a business the other was a surveyor, but on their 'holiday' thay acted like teenagers.

As I've mentioned for us it was the teeming life on the train with Russia passing the windows that was the draw. We nearly went back last year to vist central Siberia and Chita but Covid...




Ziv said:


> But the amount of time it takes to get from Beijing to Moscow is so LLLOOOONNNGG! I can't imagine doing Vladivostok to Moscow without at least one break. I stopped at Lake Baikal and it was very nice. Relaxing in the sauna after several days of train travel was a huge plus. On my non-stop summer trip everyone in my group somehow came to the mistaken conclusion that we were one day closer to Moscow that we actually were. Not good when we all realized we were a day further out than we had thought. Stopping off en route is a good thing.



I think we approached it as a challange, how would we feel doing that journey in one go. Three of us in our party and all very different, we all thought it was an amazing experience and 2 of us were actually disappointed to be leaving our moving home and the people we met on there, real withdrawal symptoms.




Ziv said:


> I used Monkey Shrine to get the visas and the tickets, and I recommend them. They saved me a ton of work.
> Both trips I booked Soft Sleeper and ended up with 4 people on the first leg from Beijing to Ulaan Baatar and then had just one roomie in the 4 bed compartment for most of the rest of the trip. If I get to do it again, I will stop in Irkutsk again plus I will pony up the cash for the long leg and pay for a first class compartment with its own toilet, shared with just one other compartment. The toilets were the one irritating thing about the train, they get pretty dirty after a couple days.
> And I would get more inventive with the dried foods I brought along. The samovar has boiling hot water so ramen is just the beginning. I hit a hiking goods store in Beijing for dehydrated food and though expensive they were worth it. I would definitely bring a tea mug with infuser built in to the mug. Some of the best conversations were with people about what they liked to add to their tea to make it the way they liked it. And I am a coffee guy normally.



We used three agencies, two for Russia and one for Poland, we travelled by train from London to Moscow the long way round including the Ukraine. The agencies can do things we mere mortals can't, sometimes at a price.

In the 3 cars we knew of the bathrooms were always immaculate, cleaned many times each day. There appeared to be a sense of national pride and duty in the way they approached it. The whole car and each compartment was vacuumed at least once each day, quite amazing.

These TransSib journeys really do leave a mark on you don't they, whichever route and whatever way you travel.


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