# Buying Points



## Amtrak George (Jun 28, 2016)

I just noticed a promotion of up to 25 percent bonus when buying points. I haven't bought any since the new AGR came in. Is this a deal worth fooling with? Also, what is the "exchange rate" when buying points (dollars to points?)


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## pennyk (Jun 28, 2016)

you may find your answer in this discussion from a few months ago:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/67363-buying-agr-points/


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## City of Miami (Jun 28, 2016)

To me, no, it's not worth it. It was only barely worth it to buy points back in the good ol' days when there would occasionally be a 50% bonus.......now, totally no. The nominal exchange rate is $.0289/point, but Amtrak uses surge pricing at their own discretion just like everybody else including Uber and Southwest, i.e. they reduce the 'point value' or 'rate' whenever they feel like it.


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## siena1965 (Aug 10, 2016)

no its they raised the price so high now. use to buy 10,000 points for $275 but now the price is over $375. try points for surveys instead its free.4months I got over 9,000 points again its free points.


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## George K (Aug 12, 2016)

siena1965 said:


> try points for surveys instead its free.4months I got over 9,000 points again its free points.


Got a link, please?


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 12, 2016)

George K said:


> siena1965 said:
> 
> 
> > try points for surveys instead its free.4months I got over 9,000 points again its free points.
> ...


Listed here: https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/earn/purchases


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## George K (Aug 12, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Listed here: https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/earn/purchases


Thanks!


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## siena1965 (Aug 13, 2016)

amtrakblue surveypointsclub.com


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## dlagrua (Sep 14, 2016)

City of Miami said:


> To me, no, it's not worth it. It was only barely worth it to buy points back in the good ol' days when there would occasionally be a 50% bonus.......now, totally no. The nominal exchange rate is $.0289/point, but Amtrak uses surge pricing at their own discretion just like everybody else including Uber and Southwest, i.e. they reduce the 'point value' or 'rate' whenever they feel like it.


The problem with the AGR program is that the travel zone system has changed. The cost of buying points has gone way up and the point requirements in many cases has escalated.. The benefit of buying points in years past was that you could purchase an Amtrak coach or sleeper ticket and save money. Not the case anymore. Amtrak management takes away the benefit and will then wonder why few purchase points. Why? because they have lost much of their value.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2016)

Buying points has become considerably less attractive proposition in the new setup, and is generally not worth it except for topping off a few points to get enough to make an immediate AGR award booking. Massive pre-purchase in anticipation of a big trip is generally not a winning proposition any more. This apparently was one of the intents of the AGR II changes.


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## dlagrua (Sep 14, 2016)

jis said:


> Buying points has become considerably less attractive proposition in the new setup, and is generally not worth it except for topping off a few points to get enough to make an immediate AGR award booking. Massive pre-purchase in anticipation of a big trip is generally not a winning proposition any more. This apparently was one of the intents of the AGR II changes.


Agree with your post, but regarding points purchases; was the intent of bringing on AGR II to discourage passengers from buying points trips? I would believe that the intent of Amtrak should be to encourage, build and not to diminish the ridership. Due to the changes in AGR II, the members will face more expensive trips and most likely travel less. IMO, many will at least cut back. It cannot be assumed that no matter what the trip costs, the ridership will keep increasing. Eventually you reach the point of diminishing returns. Have we reached that point yet?


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## the_traveler (Sep 14, 2016)

I agree with your assessment.

Since award show under 2.0 are now based on the cash amount of the trip, and the cost of the points that you may need to buy (say 1,268 points more) are the same as if you purchased them any other time, I see no reason to pre-purchase the points.

BTW - My trips to NYP now cost 1,xxx points under 2.0 for coach instead of 4,000 points under 1.0. (BC also costs less.) in fact many of my shorter LD trips (like to CHI or FL) may cost less under 2.0.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2016)

Specially since if you have the money to purchase the points you might as well use them to purchase the deeply discounted fare instead of fiddling around with points computed based on a higher fare.


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## George K (Sep 14, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> I see no reason to pre-purchase the points.


For someone like me, however, who puts EVERYTHING on the AGR MasterCard, and who is religious about shopping through the portal, one might end up with a shortage that is *just that big*, and purchasing points would be a nice thing - combining points and cash would be even better. It gives much more flexibility to someone like me who takes about 2 long distance trips per year and might be a bit short for it would be a nice option.


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## the_traveler (Sep 14, 2016)

I also buy everything thru the portal, and use the card for all purchase, but if I am short 458 points, I'd rather by them on September 17 (when I need them) instead of buying 15,000 points for the same price per point last February 8!


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## dlagrua (Sep 15, 2016)

The real flaw in the system is that Amtrak wants you to buy 10,000 points for $375.00 (1 point = .0375) but when you use them for a fare you only get .0289 per point value or less. . You'd have to be an imbecile to take that deal.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2016)

Yep, as W used to say: "Do the Math!"

It's a sucker play tied in with Amtrak's current SOP of "Less for More!"


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## NW cannonball (Sep 16, 2016)

The way it works is --

You pay cash upfront. You get some "points"

Sometimes this helps you. With the new Amtrak system and most airlines -- he he -- You trade cash for "points"

Those "points" might be worth something some time or not-- but can totally disappear any time

Paying cash for some future benefit is a total loser

There's maybe a case where buying points makes sense --

Anybody got an example about how this might work? Paying for "points" might win?


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## dlagrua (Sep 16, 2016)

NW cannonball said:


> The way it works is --
> 
> You pay cash upfront. You get some "points"
> 
> ...


As I pointed out but in softer terms, you pay .0375 for one point if you buy them. Then when you go to redeem them, Amtrak values them at ..0289 or less during peak periods. There is zero advantage in buying points because you can always use points + cash . Even with a 50% bonus the value is just not there. I will try to shop online where some merchants are offering good points deals.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 16, 2016)

NW cannonball said:


> The way it works is --
> 
> You pay cash upfront. You get some "points"
> 
> ...



Let's say you have a last minute trip (like in a week or two), and that trip is priced at 25,000 points ($725). You have 23,500 points, and there is no practical way to get those additional 1500 points posted in a day or two to allow you to book the trip (and maybe even capture a lower bucket). In that case, buying the 1500 points for about $55 could make sense. You are getting a $725 trip for $55 and points.

To me that is the only reason to buy points or miles: to top off an account to make a desired redemption.


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## willem (Sep 16, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> As I pointed out but in softer terms, you pay .0375 for one point if you buy them. Then when you go to redeem them, Amtrak values them at .0289 or less during peak periods.


The times I have checked, points have been worth the stated $0.029 each about 15% of the time. The rest of the time, they are worth less, and sometimes a lot less. And this is not usually during the former blackout periods.


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## Anderson (Sep 16, 2016)

I've had more luck in near-fixed value, but that's a side-effect of Select Executive status as well as probably my searching/travel patterns.


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## dlagrua (Sep 18, 2016)

After reading all the posts pertaining to AGR 2.0 and buying points; I have concluded that we really got the shaft on that deal!

UPDATE: Just got the email offer for the 30% bonus points for purchase. I declined and hope others to do the same. If sales plunge then maybe the more reasonable prices will return.

As point purchases do not apply to the saver fares its far more economical to purchase a ticket than using purchased points to pay the higher fare. IMO, AGR 2.0 was a poorly thought out program.


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## dlagrua (Nov 11, 2016)

On the old system you could purchase a ticket for less by buying points. On AGR 2.0 you will pay far more, so why pay upfront for points without any benefit? When I pay beforehand for a item for later use, it benefits the seller. Therefore, I feel that a discount is warranted. Right now the effect is negative when purchasing points. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. It doesn't seem like the program was well thought out.


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## jebr (Nov 12, 2016)

I'm pretty sure it was well thought out, at least for the most part. AGR is a program to reward ridership on Amtrak first and foremost. The fact that under AGR 1.x some tickets were cheaper than cash was simply a quirk of the rules. If anything, Amtrak made it more expensive to buy points because they don't want people stockpiling points; they'd rather have people pay cash for the tickets than purchase points and then use those points for tickets.


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## Dan O (Nov 14, 2016)

jebr said:


> I'm pretty sure it was well thought out, at least for the most part. AGR is a program to reward ridership on Amtrak first and foremost. The fact that under AGR 1.x some tickets were cheaper than cash was simply a quirk of the rules. If anything, Amtrak made it more expensive to buy points because they don't want people stockpiling points; they'd rather have people pay cash for the tickets than purchase points and then use those points for tickets.


I would think it would be just the opposite for Amtrak. Some folks may not redeem the points and it's cash in their pockets whether folks do redeem them for travel or not. If they do redeem them, it's no loss for Amtrak because they are selling the points for more than the points can be redeemed for. A win win for them whether folks redeem them or not as long as they buy them.


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## SP&S (Nov 16, 2016)

I just got the 30% bonus offer. Wow! If I buy enough to get the 30% bonus each point costs 2.89 ¢. As is is well documented they are never worth more than 2.89 ¢ why bother. Unless, perhaps, you've earned almost enough points to buy a trip you're better off setting the money aside to use for a trip later. It was _such _a good deal while it lasted.


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## NW cannonball (Nov 17, 2016)

SP&S said:


> I just got the 30% bonus offer. Wow! If I buy enough to get the 30% bonus each point costs 2.89 ¢. As is is well documented they are never worth more than 2.89 ¢ why bother. Unless, perhaps, you've earned almost enough points to buy a trip you're better off setting the money aside to use for a trip later. It was _such _a good deal while it lasted.


"Unless, perhaps, you've earned almost enough points to buy a trip"

Yeah, that's the only reason to buy points as the system works now.

Hoping but not expecting that the promised (heh) ability to combine points and cash ever happens


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## me_little_me (Nov 17, 2016)

SP&S said:


> I just got the 30% bonus offer. Wow! If I buy enough to get the 30% bonus each point costs 2.89 ¢. As is is well documented they are never worth more than 2.89 ¢ why bother. Unless, perhaps, you've earned almost enough points to buy a trip you're better off setting the money aside to use for a trip later. It was _such _a good deal while it lasted.


I don't even waste my time any more opening the email. I just delete it like other spam.

Before 2.0, I waited for those emails with bated breath.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 19, 2016)

me_little_me said:


> SP&S said:
> 
> 
> > I just got the 30% bonus offer. Wow! If I buy enough to get the 30% bonus each point costs 2.89 ¢. As is is well documented they are never worth more than 2.89 ¢ why bother. Unless, perhaps, you've earned almost enough points to buy a trip you're better off setting the money aside to use for a trip later. It was _such _a good deal while it lasted.
> ...


Same here. But I wish they'd hurry and get the Points Plus Cash option going.


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