# Chicago Travel Order - 14 day quarantine



## AmtrakBlue (Jul 2, 2020)

Travel Guidance | COVID 19


Chicago and Cook County Remain at High COVID Community Level CDPH strongly recommends masking in public indoor spaces




www.chicago.gov





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## Bob Dylan (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, there goes lots of the Texas Eagles riders!( but its Smart, Texas is in bad shape!!)


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## jiml (Jul 2, 2020)

Interestingly the NBA is now looking at Chicago as a supplementary hub in addition to Orlando.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 2, 2020)

If you don't have a same-day connection can you "quarantine" for one night?


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## flitcraft (Jul 2, 2020)

Is it even possible to do a same day connection? What about connecting flights at O'Hare??


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## PVD (Jul 2, 2020)

The order (as I read it) is 14 days or the duration of your time in Chicago whichever is shorter. So you would come in, go to your hotel, stay for the night, and leave.


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## SarahZ (Jul 2, 2020)

PVD said:


> The order (as I read it) is 14 days or the duration of your time in Chicago whichever is shorter. So you would come in, go to your hotel, stay for the night, and leave.


This is similar to the update I read for Albuquerque. If you are there for a shorter duration, you self-quarantine the entire time.


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## PVD (Jul 2, 2020)

The idea is to stop people coming from places with high infection rates from going out all over the area and potentially infecting scads of folks. If you just go to one place and stay, it is much easier to trace any people who have been in contact with you if you end being infected. Too many people are spreading the virus either with no symptoms, or before they show.


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## the_traveler (Jul 2, 2020)

After weeks of no new cases in my county in NYS, we just had 3 new cases this week. All 3 just came back home to NYS and flew in this week - from FLORIDA!

So this rule is also trying to stop someone from infecting others in that new area. If you are just “passing thru” or connecting, I don’t think it would apply.


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## Chey (Jul 2, 2020)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Travel Guidance | COVID 19
> 
> 
> Chicago and Cook County Remain at High COVID Community Level CDPH strongly recommends masking in public indoor spaces
> ...



Great, I just. 2 hrs ago, booked PDX-CHI, staying overnight CHI because I couldn't make either the3 Eagle ot the SWC. What now???


AmtrakBlue said:


> Travel Guidance | COVID 19
> 
> 
> Chicago and Cook County Remain at High COVID Community Level CDPH strongly recommends masking in public indoor spaces
> ...





AmtrakBlue said:


> Travel Guidance | COVID 19
> 
> 
> Chicago and Cook County Remain at High COVID Community Level CDPH strongly recommends masking in public indoor spaces
> ...



Great. Two hours ago I booked a train from PDX to CHI in early Sept.

It's two months from now but *** who knows when this crap will end??

We didn't do this for the flu. Something else is going on here, I don't know what.


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## SarahZ (Jul 2, 2020)

Chey said:


> We didn't do this for the flu. Something else is going on here, I don't know what.


Because it's not the flu. 

Flu is caused by an influenza virus. Covid-19 is a strain of coronavirus.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 2, 2020)

Chey said:


> Great, I just. 2 hrs ago, booked PDX-CHI, staying overnight CHI because I couldn't make either the3 Eagle ot the SWC. What now???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's much more dangerous than the flu! Read up about it!


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## JayPea (Jul 3, 2020)

I have a Texas Eagle trip scheduled for the end of September. I am coming in on the Empire Builder from Spokane and as of right now will be just passing through Chicago, catching the CONO to Champaign, stay with a relative one day and catch the TE in Bloomington the day after that. Something has come up with my relative that might change that, and I'd have to stay in Chicago. Thankfully, even though my home state of Washington heralded the beginning of the coronavirus in the US, the numbers are reasonably low, though like most states, are seeing increases in cases again. However, we haven't had any 7 day rolling period where we come close to the 15 cases/100000 population threshold average. In fact, it's been less than half that, even with a surge of new cases. Hopefully it stays that way. And with our governor instituting a mandatory mask policy statewide, and just today adding to that by requiring businesses to refuse service to anyone without a mask, our rate will plummet.


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## Asher (Jul 3, 2020)

What things look like today is irrelevant. Booking a trip is one thing. But, conditions change, decisions change. Keep aware and be prepared to make adjustments. Meanwhile, it's always fun to be looking ahead to a trip.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 3, 2020)

JayPea said:


> I have a Texas Eagle trip scheduled for the end of September. I am coming in on the Empire Builder from Spokane and as of right now will be just passing through Chicago, catching the CONO to Champaign, stay with a relative one day and catch the TE in Bloomington the day after that. Something has come up with my relative that might change that, and I'd have to stay in Chicago. Thankfully, even though my home state of Washington heralded the beginning of the coronavirus in the US, the numbers are reasonably low, though like most states, are seeing increases in cases again. However, we haven't had any 7 day rolling period where we come close to the 15 cases/100000 population threshold average. In fact, it's been less than half that, even with a surge of new cases. Hopefully it stays that way. And with our governor instituting a mandatory mask policy statewide, and just today adding to that by requiring businesses to refuse service to anyone without a mask, our rate will plummet.


I'd be flexible on taking the Eagle Jeff. Of course conditions can change, but with School starting back up and King Football ( the Relgion of Texas)starting, plus public officials pushing to Open everything up yesterday, Sadly I predict that Texas still wont be safe to visit in September.( plus they might implement the 3 days a week Schedule for LD Trains before October 1st, so you might want to consider waiting awhile on this trip!)

Stay safe, it's a Jungle out there!!


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## Chey (Jul 3, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> It's much more dangerous than the flu! Read up about it!



Thanks for your concern Jim. I have been paying attention, unfortunately some of the information out there is conflicting.

Add to that, I am currently living in a county that has had single-digit covid-19 cases and zero deaths. During the winter of 2018-2019 41 people died of flu or of complications brought on by flu. We do go occasionally go into a town//county hit harder than we have been and we use precautions. But we do pretty much think of flu as more dangerous, based on *our* experience.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 3, 2020)

SarahZ said:


> This is similar to the update I read for Albuquerque. If you are there for a shorter duration, you self-quarantine the entire time.


Yep, but it's for the entire state. Not sure how it could be enforced.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 3, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> Yep, but it's for the entire state. Not sure how it could be enforced.


New Mexico? The Chicago one is just for Chicago city limits.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 3, 2020)

AmtrakBlue said:


> New Mexico? The Chicago one is just for Chicago city limits.


Yes. The governor of New Mexico has (re?)-instituted a 14 day quarantine for travelers from ANY other state to ANYWHERE in NM as of July 1st. Not sure how it can be enforced, but I suppose she re-instituted it to discourage travelers ahead of hand. Our economy is highly tourist-dependent, so everyone is mournful.


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## flitcraft (Jul 3, 2020)

Chey said:


> But we do pretty much think of flu as more dangerous, based on experience.



Unfortunately, that experience is not empirically validated. Our worst flu season was the 1967 flu, in which over an 18 month period 100,000 Americans died. In four months, we've blown completely past that mark, with dramatically increasing transmission rates. Still a ways to go before we hit the all-time record of the 1918 flu--but again, that took two years to kill 600,000 plus. We are sadly on pace to beat this record, if COVID-19 lasts as long as the 1918 flu. Let's hope that isn't the case!


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## SarahZ (Jul 3, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> Yep, but it's for the entire state. Not sure how it could be enforced.


Oops, yes. I was Albuquerque-focused because the email was from the "Visit Albuquerque" association and that's where I'm planning to travel in January.


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## John Bredin (Jul 3, 2020)

Chey said:


> Great, I just. 2 hrs ago, booked PDX-CHI, staying overnight CHI because I couldn't make either the3 Eagle ot the SWC. What now???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Idaho is the only state on the entire Empire Builder route subject to the order, so unless Oregon's numbers get so bad that it ends up on the list in early September, it shouldn't affect your plans.


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## Trogdor (Jul 4, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> Idaho is the only state on the entire Empire Builder route subject to the order, so unless Oregon's numbers get so bad that it ends up on the list in early September, it shouldn't affect your plans.



September is two months away.

Look back two months ago at the states where the quarantine order now applies. Where were their numbers back then?

If this COVID pandemic has taught me anything, it is to no bother planning travel more than a few days out, and don’t assume that travel to be much more than to a neighboring state (if that).


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 4, 2020)

flitcraft said:


> Unfortunately, that experience is not empirically validated. Our worst flu season was the 1967 flu, in which over an 18 month period 100,000 Americans died. In four months, we've blown completely past that mark, with dramatically increasing transmission rates. Still a ways to go before we hit the all-time record of the 1918 flu--but again, that took two years to kill 600,000 plus. We are sadly on pace to beat this record, if COVID-19 lasts as long as the 1918 flu. Let's hope that isn't the case!



Flu can be bad, but we are use to them. Plus, we have a vaccine (thought that does't always work... its hit-or-miss each year).

A virus brings to mind a bad sci-fi story. While home, I watched some Star Trek re-runs. Its interesting the number of episodes where, even as a minor story line in the background, the Enterprise needs to rescue some planet from a killer virus.

BTW, "It's estimated that the 1918 flu killed anywhere from 20 million to 100 million people."


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## LookingGlassTie (Jul 4, 2020)

Chey said:


> Thanks for your concern Jim. I have been paying attention, unfortunately some of the information out there is conflicting.
> 
> Add to that, I am currently living in a county that has had single-digit covid-19 cases and zero deaths. During the winter of 2018-2019 41 people died of flu or of complications brought on by flu. We do go occasionally go into a town//county hit harder than we have been and we use precautions. But we do pretty much think of flu as more dangerous, based on *our* experience.



Based on the information I've seen and heard, COVID-19 is more transmissible than seasonal influenza, but it's not necessarily more dangerous. Most people who become infected have mild symptoms (or no symptoms at all). This is also true of people who were infected but have now recovered. Plus, most of the hospitalizations are of patients who happen to test positive for the virus (because they have to be tested when going to hospitals for unrelated treatments and procedures). There's a difference between being hospitalized WITH COVID-19 and being hospitalized BECAUSE of it.

Also, the reason that we're seeing and hearing about an uptick in cases in several states is because there's more testing going on (both in hospitals as mentioned above and at other testing locations). More tests will yield more positive results, but the important number there is the percentage of positive results in relation to total tests done. That number continues to trend downward overall as the number of people tested increases.

Another thing to consider is that positive infection results are being combined with antibody tests. What this means is that someone who contracted the virus but is not currently infected will still be counted as a "positive" based on the fact that he/she has the antibodies to the virus.

TL;DR, the likelihood of catching COVID-19 is greater than catching the flu, but you're not necessarily more likely to become seriously ill from it.


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## Chey (Jul 4, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> Idaho is the only state on the entire Empire Builder route subject to the order, so unless Oregon's numbers get so bad that it ends up on the list in early September, it shouldn't affect your plans.



Thanks but actually, I'm coming from FTW to LAX before I take the CS to PDX... my bad, I didn't mention that. This trip has been on my bucket list forever, never gone further north on the CS than San Jose and never having ridden the Builder at all. I'm also booked on the SWC to Lamy where I meet my ride home. I've done that trip before but not since the changes to Lamy.

Where the real problem comes in is the Builder doesn't get into CUS until after the SWC departs (the Eagle isn't an alternative for the same reason). So I would have to get a hotel in Chicago overnight. Now with the quarantine in effect I don't want to take the chance on being stuck there. My crystal ball isn't telling me what's going to happen with this pandemic or how the quarantine might affect me, or even how long it will be in place. I'm inclined to cancel the trip but I'm really bummed about it.


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## the_traveler (Jul 4, 2020)

The TE is not an alternative choice because it departs BEFORE the SWC!


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 4, 2020)

Trogdor said:


> f this COVID pandemic has taught me anything, it is to no bother planning travel more than a few days out, and don’t assume that travel to be much more than to a neighboring state (if that).



Very well said. I am concerned about traveling too far from home for fear that I won't find a restroom open when I need one.


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## Chey (Jul 4, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> The TE is not an alternative choice because it departs BEFORE the SWC!



Yeah, that's basically what I said, it's not an alternative because the Builder misses both regardless of which leaves first. 

My only respite would be if the Builder was so late that the metro lounge would be open the next morning by the time I got there. I think I could get away with it if I never left CUS and I know the Builder has a history of lateness. I haven't checked to see if it was *ever* that late or if so how often. I'm certain I'd get disappointed

Forgive me for dreaming. I want to dream. I soooo wanted to take this trip.


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## the_traveler (Jul 4, 2020)

My bad! I read the “same reason” as “for some reason”.

I need a trip soon! (Or sooner!)


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## flitcraft (Jul 4, 2020)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Based on the information I've seen and heard, COVID-19 is more transmissible than seasonal influenza, but it's not necessarily more dangerous. ...the likelihood of catching COVID-19 is greater than catching the flu, but you're not necessarily more likely to become seriously ill from it.



There is no comparison between seasonal influenza and COVID-19. COVID-19 is associated, not just with serious respiratory issues, but in addition with heart, liver, kidney, bowel, and lung damage that persists after the infection is quelled. Cytokine storms causing massive organ damage are far more common in COVID-19 than in other respiratory infections. Large numbers of small blood clots resulting in strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms have been seen in patients who had apparently 'recovered' from COVID-19, many of them younger patients. 

Dr. Nicholas Hart, the physician in charge of treating Boris Johnson, and a recognized expert in respiratory infections, has called COVID-19 'this generation's polio,' because of the future legacy of serious and permanent medical consequences for survivors of the disease which, in his opinion, will seriously impact public health resources for the foreseeable future.

As my colleagues in public health put it, this isn't the flu. It's something that can have far-reaching and permanent consequences for survivors. Do not take this disease lightly, please!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 4, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> Very well said. I am concerned about traveling too far from home for fear that I won't find a restroom open when I need one.


Thank goodness for Wawa's (where I am). I go for daily walks at different locations and for a while the state and county parks had closed their bathrooms (or removed the port-a-johns). I always made sure I knew where the nearest Wawa was. 99% of the time I would buy something to "pay" for the use of the bathroom (that's something I've done in the past, especially if I were to use a bathroom at a fast food place w/o the intent to get a meal - I'd get a soda)


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## Michigan Mom (Jul 4, 2020)

I have never in my adult life worried about the flu. Ever, ever, ever.
This is not the flu. Everything about it from the transmission to the case fatality rate, but especially that - for several months it's been pretty consistent, of known cases, 1 in 20 people get it will die, and it's a tortured and lonely death. I'm not going to take that lightly. Survivors often have organ damage and other complications that no one knows if will resolve or not. Not taking that lightly either.
If we had more testing it's possible the case fatality rate might be lower than 4-5%, but we don't have the data to make that determination.


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## PVD (Jul 4, 2020)

Living in NYC I can't begin to describe the level of anxiety people felt as took hold. We were as close to the breaking point as you can get. The unknowns made it worse. Remember, when this first took hold, there were no treatments, no vaccine. At least with the flu, there are vaccines, which we know are not fully effective, but at least when a vaccinated person gets the flu, it is usually not as bad. Rapid flu testing is also widely available, and if diagnosed early, anti virals like Tamiflu are somewhat effective. A good vaccine would be a blessing, but at least treatment protocols and medications have improved.


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## the_traveler (Jul 4, 2020)

One thing that upsets me about it is they have drive thru testing, drive thru food pantries, drive thru restaurant meal pickup, etc... What if you do not drive - like me?


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 4, 2020)

PVD said:


> Living in NYC I can't begin to describe the level of anxiety people felt as took hold. We were as close to the breaking point as you can get. The unknowns made it worse. Remember, when this first took hold, there were no treatments, no vaccine. At least with the flu, there are vaccines, which we know are not fully effective, but at least when a vaccinated person gets the flu, it is usually not as bad. Rapid flu testing is also widely available, and if diagnosed early, anti virals like Tamiflu are somewhat effective. A good vaccine would be a blessing, but at least treatment protocols and medications have improved.


But too many fools are out running around spreading it all over! 

It's a Jungle out there! We need Leaders on Horseback and we have ones riding tricycles!!


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## PVD (Jul 5, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> One thing that upsets me about it is they have drive thru testing, drive thru food pantries, drive thru restaurant meal pickup, etc... What if you do not drive - like me?


One of the things we did here was buy 10 mobile testing trucks that park in different areas every day so people who don't drive or are reluctant to travel can get testing. We also have over 400 locations to pick up meals they really are trying...I'll attach a link that explains it better.. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/contact/services/COVID-19FoodAssistance.shtml


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 5, 2020)

PVD said:


> One of the things we did here was buy 10 mobile testing trucks that park in different areas every day so people who don't drive or are reluctant to travel can get testing. We also have over 400 locations to pick up meals they really are trying...I'll attach a link that explains it better.. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/contact/services/COVID-19FoodAssistance.shtml


Another example of Helter Skelter Planning by the Governments, aka " You're own your own, lots of Luck!"


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## tricia (Jul 5, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Another example of Helter Skelter Planning by the Governments, aka " You're own your own, lots of Luck!"


 At the national level, yes. At the state and more local levels, in many places, there are government officials doing their best to pick up the slack--and saving countless lives and a great deal of suffering. They deserve credit--and remembrance when we vote.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 5, 2020)

tricia said:


> At the national level, yes. At the state and more local levels, in many places, there are government officials doing their best to pick up the slack--and saving countless lives and a great deal of suffering. They deserve credit--and remembrance when we vote.


I agree, but far too many State and Local Governments are basically doing nothing, which is why were in such a Mess!


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 5, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> It's a Jungle out there! We need Leaders on Horseback and we have ones riding tricycles!!



With training wheels....

The other concern I've heard, which isn't - at least I think - confirmed yet, is whether or not immunity lasts more than a short period or at all. Obviously that will be determined soon.


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## jiml (Jul 5, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> Very well said. I am concerned about traveling too far from home for fear that I won't find a restroom open when I need one.


For those of us with medical issues, this is a huge problem. Stores or take-out restaurants here that are "open" may have their bathrooms closed or for staff and essential workers only. Our closest McD's has construction site porta-potties set up in the parking lot for general use, which is better than nothing.


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## PVD (Jul 5, 2020)

So many people were happy to see the toilets gone in the VL2 roomettes, I wonder if the current situation changes some of those viewpoints. I realize that this will not change what is already being built, just a point to ponder...


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## flitcraft (Jul 5, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> One thing that upsets me about it is they have drive thru testing, drive thru food pantries, drive thru restaurant meal pickup, etc... What if you do not drive - like me?


Drive-through facilities are a great thing, even if not everyone has access to them, because for those with cars, they quell another point of potential infection spreading through the community. We need as many low-spread facilities of all sorts as possible. So, my friend, while I understand your feelings, think about it this way: those drivers using drive-through facilities are not spreading COVID 19 in your community, so that even if you aren't using them, they are a benefit to your community, and by extension, to you as a non-driver, too.


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## PVD (Jul 5, 2020)

That is certainly true, but in areas of reasonable density, there is no reason not to have facilities available for those who need services and don't have car access. You can certainly do both.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 5, 2020)

PVD said:


> So many people were happy to see the toilets gone in the VL2 roomettes, I wonder if the current situation changes some of those viewpoints. I realize that this will not change what is already being built, just a point to ponder...


What are we supposed to ponder? That the members who wanted the toilets moved should have somehow anticipated an extremely long build delay followed by a sudden global pandemic? Or are you saying we should ponder if the current pandemic will remain active and unmitigated for the three or four decades that VL2’s will be plying the rails? To the best of my understanding the bulk of the transmission danger comes from enclosed airborne transmission, so mitigation could be as simple as adding an active fresh air vent to the toilet area. The main problem there is that CAF would probably take a year or more to install each vent. Maybe the VL2’s should be turned into a case study for how not to build rail cars.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 5, 2020)

PVD said:


> That is certainly true, but in areas of reasonable density, there is no reason not to have facilities available for those who need services and don't have car access. You can certainly do both.


One of our Taco Bell’s made an order & pick up window at one of the set of doors into the building. So they are available for walk ups.


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## PVD (Jul 5, 2020)

No, I meant in the context of not spending a bunch of time on why it shouldn't be when we already know why it is, and why it isn't likely to change. Of course the point about ventilation is valid. Ponder may have been a poor choice, since I really meant ponder to oneself, not as a thread...


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## Barb Stout (Jul 6, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> One thing that upsets me about it is they have drive thru testing, drive thru food pantries, drive thru restaurant meal pickup, etc... What if you do not drive - like me?


I suppose you could walk up to these various drive up places. I know that one wouldn't want to be the only pedestrian in a conglomeration of cars, but I don't think you would be refused or hauled away to jail. Back in my misty past, I recall doing that at a drive through bank ATM and also at a Taco Bell. I don't remember the details like why I did it though.


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## PRR 60 (Jul 6, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> I suppose you could walk up to these various drive up places. I know that one wouldn't want to be the only pedestrian in a conglomeration of cars, but I don't think you would be refused or hauled away to jail. Back in my misty past, I recall doing that at a drive through bank ATM and also at a Taco Bell. I don't remember the details like why I did it though.


Depending on the type of test being administered, having the patient isolated in a car may be required to allow the testing personnel to not need full anti-virus PPE.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 8, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> I suppose you could walk up to these various drive up places. I know that one wouldn't want to be the only pedestrian in a conglomeration of cars, but I don't think you would be refused or hauled away to jail. Back in my misty past, I recall doing that at a drive through bank ATM and also at a Taco Bell. I don't remember the details like why I did it though.


I knew somebody who used to drive a golf cart up to drive-throughs and then pull forward to complain about them not taking her order (golf carts are typically too light to trigger the "doorbell" or whatever device used for drive ups). One would imagine that it's the same situation with pedestrians. Now old school walk-up service works fine.


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## Shortline (Jul 8, 2020)

I guess I didn’t get the memo. Chicago is pretty much open. Just saw this, but doesn’t seem like anyone else in Chicago has. Currently eating Beggars pizza, after getting off the Chief, transferring you the Capitol tonight. No signs. No checks, nothing. Just a little less city traffic.


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## jimmrl (Jul 8, 2020)

Shortline said:


> I guess I didn’t get the memo. Chicago is pretty much open. Just saw this, but doesn’t seem like anyone else in Chicago has. Currently eating Beggars pizza, after getting off the Chief, transferring you the Capitol tonight. No signs. No checks, nothing. Just a little less city traffic.



I always eat at Beggars Pizza when on a layover in Chicago. I hope you enjoyed.

Jim


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 9, 2020)

Shortline said:


> I guess I didn’t get the memo. Chicago is pretty much open. Just saw this, but doesn’t seem like anyone else in Chicago has. Currently eating Beggars pizza, after getting off the Chief, transferring you the Capitol tonight. No signs. No checks, nothing. Just a little less city traffic.



Despite the Mayors talk, there has been very little social distancing in public or enforcement of lakefront rules (although I gather it's been stepped up a bit) - before it was officially reopened people were using the beaches, at least on the south side, left and right.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 9, 2020)

Shortline said:


> I guess I didn’t get the memo. Chicago is pretty much open. Just saw this, but doesn’t seem like anyone else in Chicago has. Currently eating Beggars pizza, after getting off the Chief, transferring you the Capitol tonight. No signs. No checks, nothing. Just a little less city traffic.


This is the problem with relying on the honor system in a culture where personal sacrifice has no value.


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## John Bredin (Jul 10, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> This is the problem with relying on the honor system in a culture where personal sacrifice has no value.


Chicago (and Illinois generally) has opened up compared to March-May but only in measured stages when various statistics showed progress. The governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago were under much pressure to reopen sooner than they felt comfortable, but both stuck to the numbers.

Restaurants were take-out or delivery only until late May, then outside dining only until late June, and now indoor dining is allowed at 50% capacity, 25% only in Chicago. Masks are mandatory in stores, offices, etc. and I haven't seen anyone (employee or customer) maskless in a store since masks were required. Some places are checking temperatures on arrival and others aren't. The Lakefront trail was closed for months, outdoor facilities like the zoos and botanic gardens were closed until recently, and the Riverwalk opened up fully only today.

Which isn't to say that there hasn't been some resistance and grumbling, but that's been sporadic and mostly downstate, not in metropolitan Chicago where coronavirus was serious and taken seriously by officialdom. And the proof of the pudding that Illinois has taken coronavirus seriously at a governmental and societal level is in the eating: I'd hold up our new-cases and new-deaths graphs against anyone but the New Yorks and New Jerseys of the nation with pride.

To leap from one person's report, that he was able to eat inside a restaurant with nobody checking his temperature, and insinuate that Illinois is in the same "anything goes" mode as Texas or Florida were until recently is to parachute in at the end (well not the actual end, but the present) of a long and careful process. I've eaten inside restaurants recently, and gotten my haircut (with myself and the barber both masked), and played golf but there were quite rightly times I wasn't allowed to.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 10, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> To leap from one person's report, that he was able to eat inside a restaurant with nobody checking his temperature, and insinuate that Illinois is in the same "anything goes" mode as Texas or Florida were until recently is to parachute in at the end (well not the actual end, but the present) of a long and careful process. I've eaten inside restaurants recently, and gotten my haircut (with myself and the barber both masked), and played golf but there were quite rightly times I wasn't allowed to.


Has Illinois done a better job than Texas or Florida? Yes, absolutely. There is no debate about that, but viruses don't really know or care about crossing state lines. So does Illinois have the will and resources to prevent careless Texans and Floridians from showing up and flouting the rules on a random Wednesday? Maybe for a while but probably not indefinitely. If and when a vaccine is developed between a quarter and a third of Americans have stated they have no intention of using it. Will the anti-vaxxers be blocked from bringing new strains to Illinois? That's probably unrealistic. In the end all states are at least somewhat dependent on nearly everyone doing the right thing simply because they understand and agree.


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## John Bredin (Jul 10, 2020)

All that's true. I would just note that Illinoisans, New Yorkers and New Jerseyites (-ans?) are also Americans and certainly not unknown to eschew personal sacrifice. Hell, Chicago is the home of planting cheap lawn furniture in a shoveled portion of a public street to keep anyone else from using it.  And yet those states have the coronavirus charts that they do.

Culture is formed and channeled by the expectations of government, the media (both news and entertainment) and other shapers of opinion. People tend to take a matter seriously when they see it's serious and/or when it's repeatedly and earnestly communicated to them that they're expected to take it seriously. There was a time when American people tended to not take drunk driving seriously, but American people -- the same people who won't let people off the train before boarding, or stand on the left on escalators  -- now tend to take it seriously.


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## the_traveler (Jul 11, 2020)

New York State used to have the highest rates in the country, then we closed everything and opened up things on a staggered basis. Now we have one of the lowest rates in the country and decreasing, while other states “couldn’t wait to reopen” and their rates are very high and increasing.

The last many cases that have shown up in NYS were from passengers who have flown in to NYS from infected areas, including from FL and GA.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 14, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> Hell, Chicago is the home of planting cheap lawn furniture in a shoveled portion of a public street to keep anyone else from using it.



In my neighborhood, "dibs" furniture gets thrown away and people who do dibs get nasty notes.


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## MikefromCrete (Jul 14, 2020)

Shortline said:


> I guess I didn’t get the memo. Chicago is pretty much open. Just saw this, but doesn’t seem like anyone else in Chicago has. Currently eating Beggars pizza, after getting off the Chief, transferring you the Capitol tonight. No signs. No checks, nothing. Just a little less city traffic.






Sounds like Beggar's Pizza needs to be shut down.


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## Manny T (Jul 14, 2020)

I'm in Chicago grocery stores almost daily and compliance with masks is 100%, employees and customers.

Viewing outside diners gives another picture (no masks), but these folks are (a) outside and (b) eating. It's not the whole picture by any means.


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## dogbert617 (Jul 15, 2020)

Manny T said:


> I'm in Chicago grocery stores almost daily and compliance with masks is 100%, employees and customers.
> 
> Viewing outside diners gives another picture (no masks), but these folks are (a) outside and (b) eating. It's not the whole picture by any means.



I would say from the times I've been in various stores(and live in Chicago myself), that it hasn't been 100% compliance with mask rules. Weirdly enough, at times I'll see occasional employees at various places not wear a mask. Not often, but a few times I've noticed that, and it surprised me. The vast majority of employees I've noticed in various stores and places do wear them, and compliance is for the most part pretty high and well observed with customers in stores. BTW I am not ripping on people dining or drinking at restaurants and bars, where I can understand in those situations(while eating or drinking) taking off your mask.



John Bredin said:


> Restaurants were take-out or delivery only until late May, then outside dining only until late June, and now indoor dining is allowed at 50% capacity, 25% only in Chicago. Masks are mandatory in stores, offices, etc. and I haven't seen anyone (employee or customer) maskless in a store since masks were required. Some places are checking temperatures on arrival and others aren't. The Lakefront trail was closed for months, outdoor facilities like the zoos and botanic gardens were closed until recently, and the Riverwalk opened up fully only today.



I know in Chicago(at least up in Uptown, Edgewater, and Rogers Park when I test rode biking or walking through lakefront parks before their reopening), that most people were ignoring the lakefront closure rule, and just walking into lakefront parks pre-June 8. At least pretty much all the people I saw in lakefront parks, were respecting social distancing. Maybe an unpopular opinion to some, but to me(since I bike a lot myself) I always thought Lightfoot overreacted a little bit by closing the lakefront trail and 606 trails completely, for a period of time. To me, I think she should've at least kept those trails open for runners and bikers, if nothing else. Using the rule Seattle did for their parks during COVID, by instituting a 'keep it open, keep it moving' rule where as long as you were using the trail and not loitering, that you could use the trail. Though later on starting on June 8, Lightfoot did finally reopen those 2 trails, using the 'keep it open, keep it moving' approach(didn't say that phrase, but essentially Lightfoot was doing the same as Seattle w/their parks by allowing trails to reopen). To me though, closing the lakefront trail and 606 at 7pm, seems a slight bit early to me. Heck, I'd be okay if she said those trails would be open till 9pm!

You also mentioned zoos and outdoor gardens. As I remember, Brookfield Zoo was supposed to reopen this month, but that supposedly you had to have a reservation in advance to go there. Chicago Botanic Garden and Morton Arboretum were doing the same thing, for now. I think I heard Lincoln Park Zoo was supposedly going to do the same thing, but that for now you only could visit that zoo and do a reservation to visit if you were a member? In late July, I heard LP Zoo was going to open up reservations to even non-members.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 15, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe the VL2’s should be turned into a case study for how not to build rail cars.



"Maybe?"


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 15, 2020)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> In my neighborhood, "dibs" furniture gets thrown away and people who do dibs get nasty notes.



True around here too. The trash people will also pick up, and toss into their truck, any "dibs" furniture, by mayor's order. 

However, the "dibs" people are very united and strong too, and feel they have righteousness on their side. Something along the lines of Dibbed Spots Matter.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 15, 2020)

The City in it's great wisdom has banned swimming at beaches and designated areas and is having lifeguards enforce that, however they can't enforce no swimming outside of those areas and that is where people are in the water. It's absolutely hilarious in some ways, as well as insanely stupid in others.


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## Manny T (Jul 16, 2020)

Article highlighting the different approaches to the pandemic in Illinois vs. Florida and the predictable difference in results:








If you want to know why coronavirus is spiking in the US, compare Florida with Illinois


The two states took two very different approaches — and now Floridians are paying with their lives




www.independent.co.uk


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## John Bredin (Jul 27, 2020)

Wisconsin is going to be added to Chicago's list. Tribune article. While the Chicago-Cook County* list of quarantine states is not being enforced -- for now -- and it expressly doesn't include changing planes (or, presumably, trains) at Chicago to go elsewhere in the country, this can't be good for the _Hiawatha._


*The county health department has made the Chicago list a guideline. Unlike many county regulations that apply only in the unincorporated areas, the health department has jurisdiction throughout the county outside Chicago, Evanston, and Skokie, which have their own health departments.


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## Exvalley (Jul 27, 2020)

Has the city said what metric they are using to determine which states are "high risk"?


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## PVD (Jul 27, 2020)

Not 100% sure but I think it is 15 cases per 100k on a 7 day rolling avg...


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## BoulderCO (Jul 28, 2020)

Nebraska and Iowa also now on the list, so the Zephyr will be included.


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## StanJazz (Jul 28, 2020)

The quarantine only applies is you spend at least 24 hours in one of the states so unless you started your trip in Nebraska or Iowa it does not apply to the Zephyr. Or the train has a 24 hour delay in one of the states.


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## Wolverine72 (Jul 28, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Flu can be bad, but we are use to them. Plus, we have a vaccine (thought that does't always work... its hit-or-miss each year).
> 
> A virus brings to mind a bad sci-fi story. While home, I watched some Star Trek re-runs. Its interesting the number of episodes where, even as a minor story line in the background, the Enterprise needs to rescue some planet from a killer virus.
> 
> BTW, "It's estimated that the 1918 flu killed anywhere from 20 million to 100 million people."



No, there is no Flu Vaccine. Just a Flu shot that is just a guess as to which Flu strain is going around each year. If it were a true vaccine we wouldn’t be getting one every year. And still getting the Flu.


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## Deni (Jul 29, 2020)

Wolverine72 said:


> No, there is no Flu Vaccine. Just a Flu shot that is just a guess as to which Flu strain is going around each year. If it were a true vaccine we wouldn’t be getting one every year. And still getting the Flu.


Yes we have to get a new one every year because of different strains, but it is still by definition a vaccine.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 20, 2020)

We've got a trip booked coming up this fall which includes two overnights in Chicago (We avoid same-day connections). Being we're from one of the states on Chicago's "naughty" list we expect we will have to hole-up in the hotel for the night satisfy the city's self-quarantine requirement 

I've yet to speak with the hotel to verify the availability of food and other services. It varies from pretty good to little or nothing!

The time is approaching to make a final go/no-go decision. I still have time to bail out and get my points back (6 trains) and cancel half a dozen hotel reservations while I can without penalty.

What have been some of your experiences doing a 24 hour "quarantine" in a Chicago hotel in recent times?

Thanks, John


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## SarahZ (Aug 21, 2020)

FrensicPic said:


> What have been some of your experiences doing a 24 hour "quarantine" in a Chicago hotel in recent times?


I've never done a true quarantine, but I've taken many trips to Chicago where I just holed up in my room for a couple days so I could get some work done while also feeling like I was on vacation.

Many of the hotels have a fridge in the room now. If it doesn't come standard, you can usually request it (particularly with the larger properties, like Hilton).

I often stop at one of the many CVS/Walgreens and pick up some groceries. Most of them have a large selection of fresh sandwiches, salads, fruit, and snacks like celery with peanut butter, pretzels and hummus, etc. I love Chicago's restaurants, but three meals per day adds up pretty quickly.

Also, the front desk may have a list of places that deliver. I've found that to be pretty common in every place I've stayed. If they don't have a list, I've found that the desk clerks usually have a pretty strong opinion about the best place to order from.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 21, 2020)

FrensicPic said:


> We've got a trip booked coming up this fall which includes two overnights in Chicago (We avoid same-day connections). Being we're from one of the states on Chicago's "naughty" list we expect we will have to hole-up in the hotel for the night satisfy the city's self-quarantine requirement
> 
> I've yet to speak with the hotel to verify the availability of food and other services. It varies from pretty good to little or nothing!
> 
> ...


You don’t have to cancel by 8/31 - that is the BOOKED BY date, not a cancel by date.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 21, 2020)

AmtrakBlue said:


> You don’t have to cancel by 8/31 - that is the BOOKED BY date, not a cancel by date.


Thanks. I didn't say I have to cancel by 8/31. 
The trip is this fall...I can cancel up to a day or so before the trip. Same with my hotels and car rental.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 21, 2020)

SarahZ said:


> I've never done a true quarantine, but I've taken many trips to Chicago where I just holed up in my room for a couple days so I could get some work done while also feeling like I was on vacation.
> 
> Many of the hotels have a fridge in the room now. If it doesn't come standard, you can usually request it (particularly with the larger properties, like Hilton).
> 
> ...


Thanks Sarah. I've done that before in "normal" times and made use of the fridge in the room. By the letter of the order, we cannot leave the hotel until we leave for good (next day). Of course, its probably likely we could get away with it!


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## IndyLions (Aug 23, 2020)

New York and Massachusetts have a much more severe order in place than Chicago, as far as I can tell.

I was just in Massachusetts for a couple of days dropping my daughter at college and had to effectively quarantine while I was there. However, there was no enforcement that prevented me from leaving the hotel to get food. I doubt there will be any in Chicago either.

The risk is similar to speeding. You could get “caught” and significantly fined. The reality is that if you are being a responsible person, wearing a mask, and not flaunting social convention during a pandemic then you will probably be fine. The local authorities have a lot more important things to do than stop people on the street apparently acting responsibly and ask them for their “papers”. This isn’t WWII era Germany.


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## basketmaker (Aug 23, 2020)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Travel Guidance | COVID 19
> 
> 
> Chicago and Cook County Remain at High COVID Community Level CDPH strongly recommends masking in public indoor spaces
> ...


Boy.... They are right up-to-date July 2nd?


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## basketmaker (Aug 23, 2020)

Deni said:


> Yes we have to get a new one every year because of different strains, but it is still by definition a vaccine.


Got mine last Wednesday.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 23, 2020)

basketmaker said:


> Boy.... They are right up-to-date July 2nd?


I posted it on July 2nd, so it was up-to-date when I posted it.


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## Trogdor (Aug 23, 2020)

basketmaker said:


> Boy.... They are right up-to-date July 2nd?



The very first line when I click the emergency travel order link says “Updated as of 8/20/2020”


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## west point (Aug 23, 2020)

Got my flu shot yesterday. My arm already hurts more this time than other year's shots. (about 7 hours after ) To me that means that this year's strains are more likely to be strong. I am glad that my arm hurts as it probably means I will be immune to just those flu strains. Now if I get Covid-19 the flu will not piggyback at the same time.


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## Seaboard92 (Aug 23, 2020)

The other option you can do if you want to avoid taking a risk on quarantine in Chicago proper is get a Metra train somewhere outside of the city. Franklin Park is it's own city and it doesn't have a quarantine. On my last layover I went out to Franklin Park for the duration and enjoyed the planes and the trains. 

Or you can go out to Ogden Dunes out on South Shore Line. Enjoy Lake Michigan, and take the train back the next day when its time to leave.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 23, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> The other option you can do if you want to avoid taking a risk on quarantine in Chicago proper is get a Metra train somewhere outside of the city. Franklin Park is it's own city and it doesn't have a quarantine. On my last layover I went out to Franklin Park for the duration and enjoyed the planes and the trains.
> 
> Or you can go out to Ogden Dunes out on South Shore Line. Enjoy Lake Michigan, and take the train back the next day when its time to leave.


The obvious place to stay is Rosemont. A stop on the Blue Line El, a Metra station (though infrequent service), close to O'Hare, and tons of hotels.

Are there hotels within walking distance of the Ogden Dunes station?

It seems to me that there are so many exceptions and loopholes, I wonder how effective this travel restriction is. I suspect, like the ones in New England, it just discourages a certain number of people from traveling, which, in itself, reduces risk.


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## Seaboard92 (Aug 23, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> The obvious place to stay is Rosemont. A stop on the Blue Line El, a Metra station (though infrequent service), close to O'Hare, and tons of hotels.
> 
> Are there hotels within walking distance of the Ogden Dunes station?
> 
> It seems to me that there are so many exceptions and loopholes, I wonder how effective this travel restriction is. I suspect, like the ones in New England, it just discourages a certain number of people from traveling, which, in itself, reduces risk.


I'm not sure either but definitely in nearby Michigan City, IN.


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## IndyLions (Aug 23, 2020)

Another possible option IF you can make the Amtrak schedule work is New Buffalo MI or Saint Joseph MI. 

Those are both terrific Lake Michigan resort towns - great places to spend a day or two if the train schedules can work.

Much more expensive than a suburban hotel, but real destinations to be sure.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Aug 23, 2020)

There is essentially no enforcement of the quarantine in Chicago and while there are signs in Union Station, they are easy to miss and don't list the states. I just got off the SWC today and there were no announcements about the quarantine and few passengers were aware. Honestly if you behave responsibly and don't excessively post your activities on social media no one will notice. Having said that, you could also go to the suburbs as mentioned. Rosemont has a lot of hotels and is on the Blue Line, but there aren't a whole lot of attractions there. Oak Park and Evanston are also nice options that would have more to do. Both are on CTA rail lines and have frequent Metra service.


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## HenryK (Aug 24, 2020)

I live in Evanston. Please don't come up here. Keep your bugs to yourself.
Just kidding. Sort of. Evanston is a university town (Northwestern) and is liberal and well-educated, hence pretty good with the masking and distancing, and our covid rate is low now.


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## Skyline (Aug 24, 2020)

HenryK said:


> I live in Evanston. Please don't come up here. Keep your bugs to yourself.
> Just kidding. Sort of. Evanston is a university town (Northwestern) and is liberal and well-educated, hence pretty good with the masking and distancing, and our covid rate is low now.




Good to hear masking, social distancing, etc is working well there. I wish more people where I live (rural Trump Country Virginia) would learn from you. About 20% of the customers at our local WalMart, super market, CVS, etc. are not masking up and no one has the guts to tell them to leave. We do not have the Covid numbers they have in big cities but proportionately we have more than we otherwise would, including a wide deadly outbreak at a nursing home.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 24, 2020)

Skyline said:


> Good to hear masking, social distancing, etc is working well there. I wish more people where I live (rural Trump Country Virginia) would learn from you. About 20% of the customers at our local WalMart, super market, CVS, etc. are not masking up and no one has the guts to tell them to leave. We do not have the Covid numbers they have in big cities but proportionately we have more than we otherwise would, including a wide deadly outbreak at a nursing home.


Vote Blue for me and you!


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## TinCan782 (Aug 24, 2020)

Thanks for the input everyone. I spoke with a person at the front desk of our hotel. She didn't think the "quarantine" it would be a problem. Actually what I'm finding (not only Chicago) is that hotels are reducing, or even closing, on-site restaurant service including room service. Seeing that our stay (actually twice) is only overnight, we can cover the food situation adequately. Unfortunately, a couple of our favorite restaurants are also closed.


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## dlagrua (Aug 25, 2020)

On our trip to Whitefish Montana/Glacier earlier this this month the passengers were about 70% Amish/Hitterite and less than half of them were wearing masks. In Whitefish everyone was masking up, many at our hotel, but when we went on a road trip seldom you saw a person with a mask. I guess with the Covid alarm and the places we have gone to, we should be dead by now, but we are both in perfect health.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 25, 2020)

dlagrua said:


> On our trip to Whitefish Montana/Glacier earlier this this month the passengers were about 70% Amish/Hitterite and less than half of them were wearing masks. In Whitefish everyone was masking up, many at our hotel, but when we went on a road trip seldom you saw a person with a mask. I guess with the Covid alarm and the places we have gone to, we should be dead by now, but we are both in perfect health.


Be careful, it's a Jungle out there, and you're playing Russian Roulette with 6 Bullets in the Gun when you are around strangers.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 25, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Be careful, it's a Jungle out there, and you're playing Russian Roulette with 6 Bullets in the Gun when you are around strangers.


Why be careful? If he wants to keep testing his fate thats on him. It's not like you're going to talk him out of it.


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## Shanghai (Aug 26, 2020)

Our daughter and grandchildren flew from San Francisco to Orlando to escape the California fires (smoke)
and I was quite surprised there were no mention or filing requirements of quarantines upon arrival.


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## pennyk (Aug 26, 2020)

Shanghai said:


> Our daughter and grandchildren flew from San Francisco to Orlando to escape the California fires (smoke)
> and I was quite surprised there were no mention or filing requirements of quarantines upon arrival.


Arrivals in Florida no longer have to quarantine, however, we Floridians are not welcome in many places.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 26, 2020)

Shanghai said:


> Our daughter and grandchildren flew from San Francisco to Orlando to escape the California fires (smoke)
> and I was quite surprised there were no mention or filing requirements of quarantines upon arrival.


Glad your family and you are doing good down in the Sunshine State Dick. Hows Archie doing?


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## Shanghai (Aug 28, 2020)

Hello Jim, Thanks for asking. Archie is fine and enjoying the grandchildren with us. I hope Laura bypassed Austin and you are well. Hope to see you at the next Gathering. Best regards, Dick.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2020)

Shanghai said:


> Hello Jim, Thanks for asking. Archie is fine and enjoying the grandchildren with us. I hope Laura bypassed Austin and you are well. Hope to see you at the next Gathering. Best regards, Dick.


Thanks Dick, Texas lucked out on the Hurricane even though we badly need the Rain.

Glad all is well with you and the family( I think you know my Brother lives in Sonoma and they're having lots of Smoke problems but no Fires close!)and Archie is OK. 

I too look forward to seeing you again on a LD Train and at the Next Gathering!  Jim


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## neroden (Aug 31, 2020)

dlagrua said:


> On our trip to Whitefish Montana/Glacier earlier this this month the passengers were about 70% Amish/Hitterite and less than half of them were wearing masks. In Whitefish everyone was masking up, many at our hotel, but when we went on a road trip seldom you saw a person with a mask. I guess with the Covid alarm and the places we have gone to, we should be dead by now, but we are both in perfect health.



The infection fatality rate's at least 0.68% -- that is, 680 out of 100,000 infected people die. The hospitalization rate is substantially higher -- about 2300 out of 100,000 infected people. The number with symptoms is substantially higher -- about 21,000 out of 100,000 infected people. The rate of the extremely unpleasant long-haul cases (which mostly do not require hospitalization, but go on for 4 - 6 months minimum) has not been measured well but seems to be substantially higher -- it looks to be around 7,000 out of 100,000 infected people. A frighteningly large percentage of symptomatic people studied in several studies had heart damage -- on the order of 80%, so around 16,000 out of every 100,000 infected people -- sometimes despite having no symptoms of heart damage. It's a very nasty disease and it is nothing to mess around with. There's a lot of asymptomatic carriers wandering around (who may have heart damage and not know it, of course.) These are very rough numbers but are the best I could source. They may be on the low side.









Long-Haulers Are Redefining COVID-19


Without understanding the lingering illness that some patients experience, we can’t understand the pandemic.




www.theatlantic.com





I don't screw around with those odds of permanent organ damage; it's not something I need. If you don't know, these percentages are very high for an infectious disease. 

If it had fewer asymptomatic cases it wouldn't have spread this much; it's in the "sweet spot" for a pandemic with plenty of Typhoid Marys silently spreading it while still crippling and killing large percentages of those infected.

Some Amish communities are wearing masks and sewing masks for others. Good! Others are not wearing masks and some of those have already had horrific outbreaks.


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