# Where to find extra cars?



## Anderson (Jul 29, 2011)

This is more of a case of "I am sick and tired of hearing bad arguments against rail travel", but I'm fed up with the old "If demand spiked hard for rail travel we couldn't make up the shortage in cars for a long time" argument. So, let's assume that something causes a hard spike in rail travel demand on corridors. I can think of one or two catalysts; the easiest to envision is something bad in the Middle East, but the cause is irrelevant. Demand spikes hard. Where could Amtrak round up compatible cars without a new car order if there were a proverbial gun to their head? Note that I'm assuming that one-off PV cars and the like just aren't in the mix (as much fun as it would be to see California forced to jam old SP cars into service, I'll have to pass on that indulgence), but I'm wondering about things such as the batch of Santa Fe Hi-Levels sitting outside St. Louis, ex-Mexican RR cars, etc. that could be refurbished on a relatively short turnaround (i.e. less than the 2-3 years needed to design, bid out, and receive a full new shipment of ordered cars). Alternatively, assume that Amtrak isn't placing the order, but rather that it's coming from the various state-run services which suddenly get shoved into the black. The other (perhaps slightly uneasy) question in this is whether there is somewhere that cars could be obtained from (such as BR MKIIs that're being cycled out of service and/or MKIIIs).

Basically, on a timeframe of up to one year/eighteen months, how many cars could be rounded up and pressed back into service?


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## stntylr (Jul 29, 2011)

There is an Amtrak sleeper from the 70's on display at the Temple Railroad and Heritage Museum so I guess that would be one.

They also have a Pullman sleeper built in the 30's.


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## Anderson (Jul 29, 2011)

Good point...the Nevada RR Museum actually has a number of cars, and a couple of other museums out west do as well, which aren't exactly doing "exhibit duty" as best I can tell, and between the lots (in a real crunch), you could probably get one or two sets that didn't look _too_ absurdly mixed. You could probably pack some of the GCRR cars into service as well.

Also, I'm wondering...on super-high travel days (Thanksgiving Wednesday, for example), what does Amtrak do as far as extra capacity goes? I ask because last year, for example, they had a few "specially tagged" trains as "might not be what you're used to".


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## jphjaxfl (Jul 29, 2011)

Any cars used by Amtrak or any other intercity passenger operation would need to comply with the requirement for retantion toilets. That's the reason Heritage equipment could no longer be used. It wouldn't think a coach with 4 restrooms at the most would be that expensive to modify, but Sleeping Cars with toilets in every room would be. With the current cost cutting philosophy in Washington, there isn't going to be funds for these type of expenses and maybe not even to operate the long distance train system we currently have.


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## stntylr (Jul 29, 2011)

Also the Austin Steam Train Association has a large number of old passenger cars in Cedar Park, Texas. They run the full range from totally unusable to excellent condition. At least one car, the Silver Pine, was once owned by Amtrak but never put into service by Amtrak.

The Austin Steam Train Association which hasn't had a steam locomotive since 1999, runs a weekly excursion.


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## Ryan (Jul 29, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Also, I'm wondering...on super-high travel days (Thanksgiving Wednesday, for example), what does Amtrak do as far as extra capacity goes? I ask because last year, for example, they had a few "specially tagged" trains as "might not be what you're used to".


MARC (single level only, the K-cars won't fit into New York) and NJT equipment is pressed into service... I'm not sure how MARC handles this on Wednesday since they are running, but Sunday the equipment is just sitting idle). Not really feasible for any real length of time.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 29, 2011)

As others have said there are plenty of rehabbed/refurbished PVs sitting around in various Cities that are only used on Specials and Charters! Why not negogiate a deal with the owners since they are fully Amtrak certified, wouldnt it be great to ride in a Dome, a Lounge, a real Pullman Sleeper etc. Even the Diners from the Tourist Trains could be put into service for the extra long Trains that could be run! Of course the crews would go onto OT and Holiday Pay but I personally know Amtrak OBS that work Looooots of ExtraBoard trips to get Holiday $$$! Worth a try no?? (Bet train buffs would even pay extra/High Bucket for these cars like on Specials and Tourist Trains!)


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## MikefromCrete (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm sure if you looked around you could find some suitable cars such as the Hi-Levels in the St. Louis area. The Friends of 261 organization seems to have a nice set of Amtrak-certified equipment, including coaches. There are a number of Amtrak-certified private cars, but many of them are so specialized or accommodate such few people that they probably wouldn't be of much use in day-to-day transportation. Some commuter authorities might be able to spare some cars on weekends and holidays, but most of them really aren't very comfortable for long distance service. Most cars sitting around railroad museums probably aren't road-worthy or would cost way too much to rehab, i.e. sleepers with multiple toilets.

Charging extra fare to ride in some of the most exotic equipment is not a bad idea, but it wouldn't put that many more butts in seats. Coaches would seem to be in high demand, but most cars owned by private owners tend to be of the sleeper/business car variety.

I doubt if there is anything of use in Mexico. Most passenger trains were discontinued there a number of years and I can't imagine that those cars would be in any kind of state for a quick rehab, even if they still exist.

It would be an interesting project is comply a roster of available cars.


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## Oldsmoboi (Jul 29, 2011)

What about all those cars sitting down at the railroad museum in Homestead Florida. Even just bringing some of them up to "coach" status and replacing the toilets.


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## Anderson (Jul 29, 2011)

I know that in a crunch, you're going to see sleeper fares go back to Pullman levels in very real terms (and hopefully Amtrak will at _least _compensate with improving meal service on a few routes...). The main thing is coaches. Also, in such a situation I think Amtrak is going to probably be able to point to rising profitability numbers on enough short-haul routes that they could shake some money out of the budget and/or get access to those loans the government can offer at low rates. Actually, truth be told, I suspect they could simply re-divert excess revenue (since I suspect you'd see a lot of specials vanishing and more prolific use of the high buckets on a lot of routes).


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## Bill Haithcoat (Aug 3, 2011)

Oldsmoboi said:


> What about all those cars sitting down at the railroad museum in Homestead Florida. Even just bringing some of them up to "coach" status and replacing the toilets.


All I found were automobiles. What do I click to see the trains?


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## DET63 (Aug 10, 2011)

Remember that the OP assumes a time-frame of up to 18 months to get a car up-to-snuff if it were to be pressed into service, so some amount of deterioration due to disuse would not necessarily write it off. Similarly, upgrading toilets on sleepers might or might not be feasible within that time frame.

Other issues would include compatibility (obviously, single-level cars could not be used with Superliner or Hi-Level equipment, unless suitable transition vehicles were also available). High-profile vehicles are out on the NEC, and I believe there are also issues regarding low-level boarding and high-level platforms at some of the major NEC stations.

In any case, a year to year-and-a-half time frame is a long time for a major "crisis" to go unresolved. Most likely, by the time the vehicles were made serviceable, the political and economic situation that precipitated their being called into service would have passed, or at least changed dramatically.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Aug 11, 2011)

Working with pre Amtrak equipment, today, after all these years would not only involve upgrading the toilets. It would also mean a HUGE problem with spare parts replacements. Anyone who has ever driven an old automobile can attest to this.

And in talking about old preAmtrak cars remember they were not all created equally. It is only the lightweight streamlined cars, from the late 30s forward that could even be considered at all.

Grand and glorious cars like the open platform observation sleeper lounges were already out of date in my childhood in the 50s (though many such were still being used). Most such cars were not even air conditioned when built, but they usually had been by the time I came along

The streamlined lightweight (often stainless steel) revolution was very meaningful at the time but if you did not live through it it is kind of hard to appreciate, I think.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 15, 2011)

Well this is a fun question!

As for immediate use... The following are companies I know of that have Current Amtrak certified equipment ready to go!

Mid America Railcar - 4 coaches, 2 lounges

Friends of 261 - 4 or 5 coaches, 2 lounges ( not counting the first-class lounges super dome, and cedar rapids... I doubt those would ever be leased for standard service.)

Johnson City TN - Wautaga Valley NRHS - 2 coaches 1 lounge.

American Rail Excursions, Illinois - 2 coaches, 2 lounges

The "lounges" I've listed are either lounges or diners that could be used as lounges. Since they seat about 40 people each, I listed them since they could be used to add capacity.

All of the above companies would be quite happy to get some business from Amtrak I am guessing.


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