# September Surprise from Amtrak



## jdcnosse (Sep 7, 2011)

Saw this posted on facebook. It's simply three pictures, with Amtrak stating "Stay tuned in September." There have already been many guesses, from the SL east of NOL returning to wifi in more areas, all of which whoever at Amtrak is responsible for running this page says is incorrect. So I open it up to you, what do you think it is?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 7, 2011)

jdcnosse said:


> Saw this posted on facebook. It's simply three pictures, with Amtrak stating "Stay tuned in September." There have already been many guesses, from the SL east of NOL returning to wifi in more areas, all of which whoever at Amtrak is responsible for running this page says is incorrect. So I open it up to you, what do you think it is?


Id say that perhaps the California Zephyr may start running again between Denver and Chicago?? (Fingers crossed!)


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## NY Penn (Sep 7, 2011)

What's the car on the left? A baggage car?


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## jdcnosse (Sep 7, 2011)

I thought it was...perhaps the photo is of an area on a specific route?


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## the_traveler (Sep 7, 2011)

I was going to say "AE stopping in KIN", but I don't want that! It would end AE running thru the station (tracks) at 150 MPH!


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 7, 2011)

Amtrak on postage stamps? Won't last long since the postal service is "dying".


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## NY Penn (Sep 7, 2011)

Amtrak to Mars with a purple sky?






It's probably the CZ returning, if anything.


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## George B (Sep 7, 2011)

jdcnosse said:


> Saw this posted on facebook. It's simply three pictures, with Amtrak stating "Stay tuned in September." There have already been many guesses, from the SL east of NOL returning to wifi in more areas, all of which whoever at Amtrak is responsible for running this page says is incorrect. So I open it up to you, what do you think it is?


I think Amtrak is going to announce that they are converting to an inter-city bus service (dba Amroad) as of October 1. They will announce that they arrived at the new name after discarding ideas such as Amdelay, Amdisruption, and Amcancellation. I expect they will also announce the place and time where they will be auctioning off all of that pesky rolling stock left over from their days as a passenger railroad service. Low, low rock-bottom prices on high-high mileage Superliners will start at $39.95, with a limit of 10 per customer, or cash in AGR points and get a free locomotive. Some P40s and single-level coaches will be retained for bus service once they weld on an outer flange to the wheels and mount tires on them.

NRPC will remain, but as a separate entity from the bus lines, and will convert to a fast food chain, serving up the same hot, tasty meals we were used to getting in the Diner and Lounge Cars.


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## D.P. Roberts (Sep 7, 2011)

Several people guessed the return of the Zephyr and the Sunset Limited coming back, & Amtrak responded with "Good guesses but so far no one has guessed correctly (although some of the guesses are on the horizon)!" It can't be that big of a deal, or all the rail-tuned people on this forum would already have heard about it, posted about it, discussed it ad nauseam, beaten the horse to death, and locked the thread. :blink: h34r:


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## Henry Kisor (Sep 7, 2011)

maybe it's just the new double points offer, announced today.


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## abcnews (Sep 7, 2011)

Maybe it's just adding a Viewliner sleeper on the Pennsylvanian to connect with the Capital Limited. A legendary route (The Broadway Limited) returns...

Anyway, I think that is about to happen. Not sure if this is about that...


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## afigg (Sep 7, 2011)

Doubt if it the restoration of the California Zephyr. Why make a fuss about the restoration of a service that was temporarily suspended just a week or two back. Stuff like the restoration of the Sunset Limited to Orlando is not going to happen w/o a lot of advanced notice because Amtrak and the states needs money from the states & feds to rebuild stations, add crew, and so on. Same goes for running over the FEC in Florida.

Most likely it is the addition of WiFi to the Amfleet I equipped eastern trains. We know that is coming by October, could be added on October 1.

Other possibilities from semi-serious to not:

-8400 Diner will enter service and Amtrak wants to make a PR fuss about it.

-Cardinal will be going daily starting in October. Amtrak will go lean on spare Viewliner sleepers for 16 months until the Viewliner IIs enter service because they got ahead of the Viewliner sleeper overhaul cycle.

-Sunset Limited will go daily from New Orleans to San Antonio to LA. Amtrak found some seriously embarrassing or compromising photos of UP executives and UP caved in on their money demands to allow the SL go daily.

-The administration found some money behind the cushions in the government couch (it is a VERY big couch) and will use it to A) replace the Portal bridge (which possibly could qualify as near shovel ready project as part of the jobs initiative) or B) move ahead on other Amtrak related higher speed rail projects.

-Amtrak decided the heck with waiting for Congress and will exercise the 70 car option on the Viewliner II order, but with 50 coach cars and 20 in other configurations. Just the first part of a follow-on 220 car Viewliner II order to equip the eastern LD and medium distance fleets with all new equipment.

-Something to do with the Next GEN NEC 220 mph proposal.

-Congressman Mica will announce that he loves Amtrak, is dropping the take the NEC away from Amtrak proposal and thinks Amtrak should get their full FY2012 funding request (probability very, very small).


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## eagle628 (Sep 7, 2011)

afigg said:


> -Congressman Mica will announce that he loves Amtrak, is dropping the take the NEC away from Amtrak proposal and thinks Amtrak should get their full FY2012 funding request (probability very, very small).



Well, we can dream, can't we?

In any case, the baggage car makes me think that maybe it has something to do with long-distance service, which if true would be very surprising, given Boardman said they weren't planning on doing anything about that until Congress gave them an answer one way or another about funding, and given the political climate, I would have expected the answer to have been an emphatic "no!"


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## amamba (Sep 7, 2011)

Returning sleepers to 66/67?

Ah well, a girl can dream...


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## Gratt (Sep 7, 2011)

a few hours ago Amtrak said "Good guesses but so far no one has guessed correctly (although some of the guesses are on the horizon)!"

this excludes sunset east, wifi, e-tickting, the CZ restore, the FEC.

My bet this has something to do with the great dome in the east or the prototype dinner. At best we are talking about new corridor service. If it is anything bigger than that I will be shocked.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 7, 2011)

The _*Heartland Flyer*_ will become an all First Class train running from NYC to LAX via Norman OK and will feature the new Superliner 3 Fleet which was secretly built in a facility located about 150 miles north of Las Vegas! :lol: :lol:


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## afigg (Sep 7, 2011)

abcnews said:


> Maybe it's just adding a Viewliner sleeper on the Pennsylvanian to connect with the Capital Limited. A legendary route (The Broadway Limited) returns...
> 
> Anyway, I think that is about to happen. Not sure if this is about that...


The problem with the Pennsylvanian extension on the CL is that it would require 3 Viewliner sleepers. Amtrak is likely to do this after enough Viewliner II sleepers have been delivered. But that could be 2 years. However, in my opinion, Amtrak should not tie the Pennsylvanian to the CL, but instead restore something on the order of the Three Rivers to Chicago which would provide a second daily frequency PHL-PGH.


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## deimos (Sep 7, 2011)

I'll guess special fares for long distance travel.


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## Acela150 (Sep 7, 2011)

My guess their announcing the wifi for trains in the Northeast.


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## abcnews (Sep 7, 2011)

afigg said:


> abcnews said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's just adding a Viewliner sleeper on the Pennsylvanian to connect with the Capital Limited. A legendary route (The Broadway Limited) returns...
> ...



It's my understanding that they already have enough Viewliners and they do intend to get this started very soon. Plus the costs are minimal - since they are just adding a Viewliner to an existing train, and adding a one car switching move in Pittsburgh. Apparently it is about to happen, but not really a big deal.

For all of us, It will allow us to have a much better ride with larger windows over a great route - from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia (Horseshoe curve, etc..). It will be a bit like the old 66/67 - no diner or anything special - just an addition of a through Viewliner sleeper on the end of the train.

It does make sense, after all - I think that the Lake Shore Limited is one of their most profitable LD trains.


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## Ryan (Sep 7, 2011)

Great dome is a real good guess, although that isn't much of a surprise since they do it every year.

I'll go ahead and guess that the through sleeper on the Pennsy is the surprise. If that's the case, I'll be switching up my westbound leg of the Cardinal dome trip posthaste.


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## Train2104 (Sep 7, 2011)

If e-ticketing and WiFi are already ruled out, there are only 3 possibilities:

-8400 launch

-Great Dome

-Resumption of Michigan service to normal schedule


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## The Cardinal (Sep 7, 2011)

Hmm, wasn't the Cardinal suppose to become a daily train in the fall of 2011??


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## abcnews (Sep 7, 2011)

I hear that It's in the final stages. I think that they just need to get CSX and the Buckingham Branch to work out the logistics. That is where the problem is. Not equipment, at this point.

They really need to make the Cardinal more profitable, and I think that the belief at Amtrak is simply, that the Cardinal must be a daily train.

I don't see that as a surprise, since it was already announced. That is not too big of a deal at this point. I don't really see how would that be a surprise?


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## abcnews (Sep 7, 2011)

Here is my guess...

It's either the Viewliner sleeper on the Pennsylvanian - to be switched onto the Cap Limited in Pittsburgh. Or else, it's news that the Texas Eagle will become a daily Chicago to LA train, with no switching in San Antonio. The San Antonio to New Orleans run will become a daily train - but with no sleeper service (a daytime train), and just a cafe /lounge type of situation.

So that is my guess - one of those two will be announced. Or - maybe both.


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## edding (Sep 7, 2011)

I know it's an un-realistic dream, but : Return real train service to Phoenix/Tempe!! Please!!!


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## afigg (Sep 7, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> If e-ticketing and WiFi are already ruled out, there are only 3 possibilities:
> 
> -8400 launch
> 
> ...


The 8400 diner entering service is a possibility although it is not much of a "surprise". On the other hand, the Great Dome shows up on the Adirondack every year. I don't see getting the Wolverine service back on schedule because of track repairs qualifying for anything more than a press release.

The announcement might still be Wi-Fi for the NE trains depending on what the wording was in the posts.

If Amtrak were to announce that the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle and the Cardinal were both going to daily service in October, that would qualify as a big surprise. Besides the Pennsylvanian getting sleepers to connect to the Capitol Limited, any other new services over existing routes that could be added with the equipment available? Such as Minnesota & Amtrak agreeing to support a second daily Chicago to Twin Cities train?


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## afigg (Sep 7, 2011)

abcnews said:


> I hear that It's in the final stages. I think that they just need to get CSX and the Buckingham Branch to work out the logistics. That is where the problem is. Not equipment, at this point.
> 
> They really need to make the Cardinal more profitable, and I think that the belief at Amtrak is simply, that the Cardinal must be a daily train.
> 
> I don't see that as a surprise, since it was already announced. That is not too big of a deal at this point. I don't really see how would that be a surprise?


The Cardinal going to daily service was never announced, it was just a recommendation and proposed plan in a PRIIA report that most Amtrak passenger have never heard of. That Congressman Rahall of WV, the ranking Democrat on the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure which oversees Amtrak, has repeatedly called for daily Cardinal service to WV is not a small consideration. Amtrak should get some political points with him and the 2 WV Senators with daily Cardinal service.

Oh well, we'll find out in the next several weeks what the "surprise" is. Odds are, that it won't be much of a surprise or that big a deal.


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## MattW (Sep 7, 2011)

Might be the announcement of the Acela II.

Maybe they're going to make Atlanta a new system hub with routes into South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama with LD routes as far as Chicago, Knoxville (Lynchburger to Boston/Springfield), New Orleans on the old Crescent route, Wilmington, NC via Augusta and Columbia, and down to Miami using FEC trackage.


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## Trogdor (Sep 8, 2011)

I can guarantee that no currently non-daily train will be going daily this year.

It would take at least six months from go-ahead to hire and qualify enough crews to increase service. Then there's still that little deal that the host railroads have not approved such (and aren't anywhere close to approving such, either).

The Pennsylvanian-Capitol Limited through cars will not be implemented until after the completion of the CSX tunnel project, which will last until about this time next year.

No new routes or reroutes are close to happening, either.

That said, I have no idea what this facebook "surprise" is all about. Given that it's from marketing, it's either something you already know about (the dome car schedule, for example) or something boring like a big discount fare sale. It ain't gonna be anything to do with frequency increases, reroutes, or anything of the sort (not if the surprise is going to happen any time soon, that is).


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## Crescent ATN & TCL (Sep 8, 2011)

Amtrak broke even on operations for July!?! Maybe, possibly, with all the disruptions and craziness going on, something crazy happened with their finances in a good way.


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## stntylr (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm guessing that it's another big discount on travel on the NEC. They seem to think that's the greatest thing around.

Either that or a free Amtrak softball cap for the first person to successfully complete the CZ route from Emoryville to Chicago.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 8, 2011)

I have it on good word that Amtrak and the US Post Office will be announcing a partnership to fill up their baggage cars with bulk rate mail.


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## Anderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, is it possible that the "surprise" will be an announcement of something coming up later (i.e. something that won't happen until spring)? And I thought 8400 was in service already on the LSL?


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## stntylr (Sep 8, 2011)

Since the surprise is from the marketing department I'm guessing some kind of travel discount.

It might even include areas other than the NEC.

Such as.....

Drink Pepsi!

One dollar off your Amtrak ticket for every pound of Pepsi cans brought to your local ticket office.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 8, 2011)

stntylr said:


> Since the surprise is from the marketing department I'm guessing some kind of travel discount.
> 
> It might even include areas other than the NEC.
> 
> ...


 Noooooooo! Oh, wait, can they be full cans? (Coke drinker here) :giggle:


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Well, is it possible that the "surprise" will be an announcement of something coming up later (i.e. something that won't happen until spring)?


Absolutely.

I don't know why track work near Cumberland would prevent a through car from the Cap that gets cut off at PGH. If anything, it provides a little more flexibility for travelers that currently go north from WAS. Anyone heading to a NEC destination can be routed via PHL instead of put on a bus if a train misses the window.


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## Trogdor (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I don't know why track work near Cumberland would prevent a through car from the Cap that gets cut off at PGH.


Because the switching required would take time (even if only a few minutes), and there's no way anyone would permit something that could further delay a train that's racing to make a cutoff window.


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## jis (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Well, is it possible that the "surprise" will be an announcement of something coming up later (i.e. something that won't happen until spring)?
> ...


There is the pesky problem of the absence of a crossover track that needs to be in place at the west end of PGH station as spelled out clearly in the relevant PIP, that denizens here are forgetting about. Amtrak and NS both have said that they expect to have the crossover in place by next year. So I would be immensely surprised if anything happens in the area of through cars from the Pennsy to the Cap this year.


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

No, I haven't forgotten about the crossover track - someone mentioned in a thread here recently that they had conceived a method of doing the switching without it in place.

As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.


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## the_traveler (Sep 8, 2011)

George B said:


> I think Amtrak is going to announce that they are converting to an inter-city bus service (dba Amroad) as of October 1.


No, because "Amroad" was already used in the movie "Silver Streak", and they got tired of throwing the same passenger (Gene Wilder) off the train over and over!




And don't forget the arrival in Chicago!



They got tired of having to rebuild the station after every arrival!


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## PRR 60 (Sep 8, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> George B said:
> 
> 
> > I think Amtrak is going to announce that they are converting to an inter-city bus service (dba Amroad) as of October 1.
> ...


Someone actually insisted to me that the ending scene of Silver Streak was real: that they intentionally ran a train into the station, then repaired the station after the scene was shot. They were serious. I nodded my head in mock agreement. There is no arguing with logic like that.


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## dlagrua (Sep 8, 2011)

Its been mentioned earlier in this post. Amtrak is offering a 50% bonus on travel points purchased in Sept 2011. Since an Amtrak guest rewards card was used for the purchase,I purchased 5,000 +2500 +137 points for $137.50 this morning. Since sleepers have risen in cost ( and no longer open at low bucket) the option to purchase points really helps.


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

That's nice, but it isn't the September Surprise (and it isn't 100% factual - low bucket sleepers are still out there).


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## abcnews (Sep 8, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know why track work near Cumberland would prevent a through car from the Cap that gets cut off at PGH.
> ...



How long does it take to disconnect a car off the rear of the train? The Capital Limited could actually pull away - without any delay at all, simply by dropping the Viewliner in the station - as long as that track is blocked and protected. And then, once the Capital Limited is well out of sight, the empty Pennsylvanian would pull into the station (or back into the station) and hook up to the Viewliner. It's only one car - thats all. No other switching is required.


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

You wouldn't be able to put the VL on the back unless you started running with 2 trans dorms. Or put the bag on the back, but then you'd be dropping it with the VL. Unless you put the bag between the transdorm and the VL, then you'd have to walk through the bag to get between the VL and the rest of the train, and that ain't happening.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> You wouldn't be able to put the VL on the back unless you started running with 2 trans dorms. Or put the bag on the back, but then you'd be dropping it with the VL. Unless you put the bag between the transdorm and the VL, then you'd have to walk through the bag to get between the VL and the rest of the train, and that ain't happening.


I get the sense that the idea of transferring a Viewliner sleeper between the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Limited was the brainstorm of the marketing people, and that they neglected to consult the operations people before made the plan public. That kind of communications, or lack of same, is quite common at Amtrak. One silo often has no clue what the next silo is doing.

Now, if they took a sleeper, coach and a food service car from the Pennsylvanian and tacked it on the end of the Capitol simply as a means of getting the cars and passengers from PGH to CHI, then operationally, that would work. The Pennsylvanian passengers would not need access to the Capitol consist. Whether that would be a nice thing for the passengers is debatable.


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## dlagrua (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> That's nice, but it isn't the September Surprise (and it isn't 100% factual - low bucket sleepers are still out there).


I don't know how the bucket pricing structure has changed but I can relate an actual experience. Last month we decided to book an AutoTrain trip to Florida in May of 2012. Used Amsnag to check prices for the month.(Thanks again to the creator) The planned booking was 10 months out at that point. The bedrooms were going for (IIRC) $586 so we booked using points. Low bucket fare is somewhere around $290-$350 for a bedroom on this train. Try Amsnag at the 11 month out booking point and I believe that you will find the same pricing. I will agree that low bucket fares are still available but its now pot luck as to how you can get them.

Perhaps the 50% bonus points is not the Amtrak surprise so lets wait it out and look for a further announcemnt. Amtrak ticket revenue is up of late so they have a few extra bucks to play with so who knows what they have in mind?


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## jis (Sep 8, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > You wouldn't be able to put the VL on the back unless you started running with 2 trans dorms. Or put the bag on the back, but then you'd be dropping it with the VL. Unless you put the bag between the transdorm and the VL, then you'd have to walk through the bag to get between the VL and the rest of the train, and that ain't happening.
> ...


Please do read the PIP before passing judgement like above. In addition to the PIP, having talked to several folks at Amtrak including the guy who manages the whole thing, I know for a fact that it was discussed with ops people and it was determined that it cannot be done efficiently without putting in a crossover at the west end of the station. Too bad that even folks here who have read the PIP have chosen to forget that part, and are going on and on about something that cannot be done this year.

The Chicago section is slated to be placed between the bag and the Transdorm in the Cap. It is also stated explicitly in the PIP that the goal is to give the NY section folks access to the Superliner section of the train between PGH and CHI. That is why a crossover to a siding to keep them in is required at the west end of the station.

It is indeed true that without the crossovers they will have to flip the train, i.e. place the Transdorm and the bag in the back of the train to sort of be able to do it. But they had decided against that, for various logistical reasons.


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## Trogdor (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.


The decision is made at Cleveland on the basis of there not being any switching done in Pittsburgh. If there were through cars in Pittsburgh, the "Cleveland cutoff" time would either not be there (i.e. a Pittsburgh cutoff instead of a Cleveland cutoff), or an earlier time would be specified at Cleveland.

There's a little bit more involved in cutting a car than just opening the coupler and pulling away. You have to set handbrakes on the cars being cut, you have to shut off the HEP, you have to disconnect the HEP cables and the air hoses, separate the train, close the HEP loops, do an air test, etc. All that is on top of the normal station work (i.e. letting passengers off and on the train).


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > That's nice, but it isn't the September Surprise (and it isn't 100% factual - low bucket sleepers are still out there).
> ...


 You also don't appear to know the difference between an anecdote and data. The fact that you weren't able to secure a low bucket ticket for your particular trip doesn't mean that they no longer exist.


> Perhaps the 50% bonus points is not the Amtrak surprise


Perhaps nothing. Something that has already been announced, by definition, is not a surprise.


jis said:


> Too bad that even folks here who have read the PIP have chosen to forget that part, and are going on and on about something that cannot be done this year.


I haven't chosen to forget that - I've mentioned both that I recall reading that an different plan had been conceived that allowed them to do the work without the switch (I really wish I could find it) and that a September Surprise doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to start the service right away.


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.
> ...


And none of that precludes a change being made to implement this service before the tunnel work is over. If you add 15 minutes to the run time between CLE and the work site, either the CLE cutoff becomes 0315, or CSX accepts the fact that they MAY have to start work up to 15 minutes late. Certainly the 0330 cutoff provides some padding, so even if the train leaves CLE at 0320 and spends 15 extra minutes in PGH, it's possible that it'll get through the work site on time.


> There's a little bit more involved in cutting a car than just opening the coupler and pulling away. You have to set handbrakes on the cars being cut, you have to shut off the HEP, you have to disconnect the HEP cables and the air hoses, separate the train, close the HEP loops, do an air test, etc. All that is on top of the normal station work (i.e. letting passengers off and on the train).


Thanks for stating the obvious - I'm well aware of that.


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## Trogdor (Sep 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


If you've ever worked with freight railroads, especially related to Amtrak operations, you'd understand how picky they can be about the tiniest amounts of time when they want to be (which, when it's in their favor to do so, is all the time).



> > There's a little bit more involved in cutting a car than just opening the coupler and pulling away. You have to set handbrakes on the cars being cut, you have to shut off the HEP, you have to disconnect the HEP cables and the air hoses, separate the train, close the HEP loops, do an air test, etc. All that is on top of the normal station work (i.e. letting passengers off and on the train).
> 
> 
> Thanks for stating the obvious - I'm well aware of that.


Some aren't.



abcnews said:


> How long does it take to disconnect a car off the rear of the train? The Capital Limited could actually pull away - without any delay at all, simply by dropping the Viewliner in the station - as long as that track is blocked and protected. And then, once the Capital Limited is well out of sight, the empty Pennsylvanian would pull into the station (or back into the station) and hook up to the Viewliner. It's only one car - thats all. No other switching is required.


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## RPE (Sep 8, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > George B said:
> ...


The station in the end scene was Toronto's Union Station. (And No - They did not have to repair it. :giggle:


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## Michael061282 (Sep 8, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> Someone actually insisted to me that the ending scene of Silver Streak was real: that they intentionally ran a train into the station, then repaired the station after the scene was shot. They were serious. I nodded my head in mock agreement. There is no arguing with logic like that.


You mean it wasn't real? My whole childhood has just been ruined! :giggle: The shattering of illusions is always painful ::sigh:: :help:


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## abcnews (Sep 8, 2011)

I still don't see why they can't just drop the Viewliner in Pittsburgh, and just keep it real simple. Just one Viewliner on the rear of the Cap. And yes - the transdorm would have to be the last car on the Superliner consist. And the baggage could be one or two Superliner Coach/baggage combine cars. So no need for a Heritage baggage, if you have the Viewliner on the rear. Just use a "Baggage/Coach" combine somewhere in the consist.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 8, 2011)

It's amazing the amount of comments this has gotten on here and on Facebook. 401 likes and 142 comments at the time of writing this. Makes you wonder if Amtrak's marketing team finally figured out a way to get the general public excited about trains. lol


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## cpamtfan (Sep 8, 2011)

When I rode 29 in July, they had to run the consist backwards except for the baggage car due to having 5 private varnishes on the rear, so I don't see it as being a huge issue.


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## afigg (Sep 8, 2011)

abcnews said:


> I still don't see why they can't just drop the Viewliner in Pittsburgh, and just keep it real simple. Just one Viewliner on the rear of the Cap. And yes - the transdorm would have to be the last car on the Superliner consist. And the baggage could be one or two Superliner Coach/baggage combine cars. So no need for a Heritage baggage, if you have the Viewliner on the rear. Just use a "Baggage/Coach" combine somewhere in the consist.


Amtrak posting a teaser about a "September surprise" on their Facebook page has certainly resulted in an interesting thread with all sorts of ideas for what will likely turn out to be a yawner of a "surprise".

If you read the Capitol Limited report, the plan is not just to attach one Viewliner, but also 2 Amfleet II coach cars and an Amfleet food service car. If they are going to go to the trouble of connecting to the CL, they have to include coach cars for the revenue and capacity. To start the new service, Amtrak will need 2 additional Amfleet II coach cars, 3 Viewliner sleepers, and a food service car. From the track diagram in the report, NS will have to restore a connecting track and add a 480v ground power supply. I think it is pretty clear from the information posted here about the status of the track work and the needs for 3 Viewliner sleepers, that this won't be the "surprise" this September.

If Amtrak prioritizes it's LD upgrades, going to daily service on the Cardinal is more important - and achievable in the short term. The Cardinal had a poor cost recovery of 27% in FY08 which puts it at risk if the House Republicans insist that only LD trains with cost recoveries of at least 50% or those close enough to get there in the near term will be allowed to continue. Going daily improves the projected CR to 35% and an annual ridership increase of 134,900. The Cardinal would still be short on CR, but the arrival of the Viewliner II baggage-dorms, option to add a 2nd sleeper for peak travel periods should boost revenue further. Keeping the Cardinal running maintains service to Cincinnati and leaves the option of a future Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati corridor service in better circumstances than if Cincinnati had no Amtrak service at all.

But we shall see what the "surprise" is sometime this month. My bet is on an underwhelming surprise.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 8, 2011)

I suspect increased service on the corridors from cars freed up by the discontinuatiOn ofD trains


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## fairviewroad (Sep 8, 2011)

stntylr said:


> Either that or a free Amtrak softball cap for the first person to successfully complete the CZ route from Emoryville to Chicago.


 Nice! And it would truly be a surprise if this happened in the month of September, unfortunately.



jdcnosse said:


> It's amazing the amount of comments this has gotten on here and on Facebook. 401 likes and 142 comments at the time of writing this. Makes you wonder if Amtrak's marketing team finally figured out a way to get the general public excited about trains. lol


Yes, but this can cut both ways. If you build up expectations like this, you'd better follow it with something worthwhile. Anything less than amazing/interesting/unique at this point will be met with a round of jeers.


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## Donctor (Sep 8, 2011)

abcnews said:


> How long does it take to disconnect a car off the rear of the train? The Capital Limited could actually pull away - without any delay at all, simply by dropping the Viewliner in the station - as long as that track is blocked and protected. And then, once the Capital Limited is well out of sight, the empty Pennsylvanian would pull into the station (or back into the station) and hook up to the Viewliner. It's only one car - thats all. No other switching is required.


And couldn't putting the Viewliner on the Capitol simply entail a P42 taking the car off the end of 43 and putting it on the tail of 29? (I'm assuming that the sleepers and dorm would be placed on the rear of 29/30.)


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## had8ley (Sep 8, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I was going to say "AE stopping in KIN", but I don't want that! It would end AE running thru the station (tracks) at 150 MPH!


Like the old goat says in the Geico commercials Dave....Naaaahhh, Naaaahh, Naaaahh :lol: It's probably something simple like the 50% bonus for fall trips.


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## jis (Sep 8, 2011)

Donctor said:


> abcnews said:
> 
> 
> > How long does it take to disconnect a car off the rear of the train? The Capital Limited could actually pull away - without any delay at all, simply by dropping the Viewliner in the station - as long as that track is blocked and protected. And then, once the Capital Limited is well out of sight, the empty Pennsylvanian would pull into the station (or back into the station) and hook up to the Viewliner. It's only one car - thats all. No other switching is required.
> ...


One of the constraints for the proposal to be cost effective is that all car moves be done by the road locomotives using road crews. So no second locomotive sitting around with separate crew to do the shunting. If the cost incurred in adding the cars is not fully covered by incremental revenues and then some, then this is not going to happen, and they appeared to be quite serious about that one. Remember that the reason for this is not to keep us on the forum here amused.  It is to increase CR for the train.


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## Donctor (Sep 8, 2011)

jis said:


> Donctor said:
> 
> 
> > abcnews said:
> ...


Yup. I seem to recall hearing or reading somewhere that there was a way to do this without requiring much. Exactly how it's possible, I cannot quite recall. (Given the lack of anything concrete in my memory of this, it certainly seems possible that I am misremembering entirely.)


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## Anderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Donctor said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Donctor said:
> ...


My understanding is that they were willing to consider this if the marginal revenue wasn't _quite_ at 100% if the CR numbers tightened enough as a result (i.e. the deficit went up by $500,000 but the CR went up by 4%). Honestly, I think that Viewliner will be sold out on a regular basis because of PHL/HAR...and EB, this makes sense. WB, however, you have to depart _far_ earlier from NYP to make it.

If it were just a matter of a decently-timed single-seat service from PHL-CHI, I'd suggest sticking the Viewliner on the last NE Regional that could leave NYP and make WAS with an appropriate buffer (125 is an option here WB, and EB you could pretty much just stick it on the next Regional out of town if you're late) and just revive the _old_ Capitol Limited service (i.e. what B&O inaugurated back in the 20s), but I suspect there's enough incremental improvement from the intermediate stops PHL-PGH to make the Pennsylvanian option make sense. The biggest problem with the Pennsylvanian option is that the PGH layover is a dog.


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## MikeM (Sep 8, 2011)

Personally, I think it's going to be a new Amtrak Bingo game. Guess the car number of the car next to be sidelined in a derailment on the CZ and you win a complementary flat iron steak.


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## Lazy Z (Sep 8, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> I have it on good word that Amtrak and the US Post Office will be announcing a partnership to fill up their baggage cars with bulk rate mail.


Please tell me that is a joke!!


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## Lazy Z (Sep 8, 2011)

Does anyone recognize the landscape??


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## Anderson (Sep 8, 2011)

It looks to be somewhere out west...but I think it might also be a stylized drawing instead of a picture.


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## Lazy Z (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes, it does, but it seems like the middle of Arizona with an ocean in the background  Maybe like you day, it is a drawing..maybe representative of the whole southwest.......



Anderson said:


> It looks to be somewhere out west...but I think it might also be a stylized drawing instead of a picture.


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## MattW (Sep 8, 2011)

What about the Coast Daylight? It certainly looks like a Southern California scene at least to me and I don't remember reading anything about stuff happening to the Coast Starlight.


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## jis (Sep 8, 2011)

Donctor said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Donctor said:
> ...


Well, there have been many unworkable proposals from many who have nothing to do with actually being responsible for operating anything. The folks responsible for this who carried out the study and planning came to the conclusion that they need to put in a crossover to a siding at the west end of PGH station, a crossover that was removed within the last half dozen or so years, unfortunately.


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## Anderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm running it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes. I've got to wonder...what would the Coast Daylight's timetable look like? The Coast Starlight runs LAX-EMY 10 AM-10 PM NB and 8 AM-9 PM SB...and honestly, though you _definitely _want daylight on that section of track, I can't see 12-hour LAX-Bay Area service _quite_ meriting two not-very-spaced-out trains per day unless the Coast Daylight will include some kind of fancy "Coach Plus" accommodations...the train. I'm also wondering if "split the train in San Jose" might not make more sense, too.

(For what it's worth, I could see an 8 AM departure and an 11 AM departure making sense, even if the 11 AM _is_ going to be a bit of a dog in terms of its San Francisco arrival time...and I do believe that 2-3 daily frequencies on a line are necessary.)


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## John Bredin (Sep 8, 2011)

Remember that Amtrak said regarding the wrong guesses that "some of the guesses are on the horizon". I think that's an intentional choice of words; that is, it's meant to be a clue.

My guesses, upon the presumptions that (a) "horizon" is a clue and (b) the surprise is actually something worthy of a fanfared and hyped announcement to the riding and general public:

1) An *order* for new equipment to replace the Horizon cars on the Midwestern and California corridors. While money was recently allotted for new bilevel equipment for this purpose, and while a standard design for bilevel corridor cars has been issued, no cars have yet been ordered from any manufacturer AFAIK.

2) Daily Sunset Limited (going to where the sun sets on the horizon <_< ) on the previously-discussed basis of CHI-SAS-LAX with SAS-NOL stub train.

3) As others have commented here, a Coast Daylight (again, operating where the sun sets on the horizon).

Note that I said a surprise to the riding and general public. The first two guesses would not be a surprise to those on this board, or passenger railfans and advocates elsewhere. But certainly not everyone that is an actual or potential Amtrak passenger is so obsessive well-informed. :giggle:


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## NY Penn (Sep 8, 2011)

Let me guess... Amtrak is getting privatized!


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## Trogdor (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm guessing that "horizon" meant that some of the guesses are in the works for near-future implementation (wi-fi, electronic ticketing), not that the guesses were necessarily close to what the surprise is.


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## afigg (Sep 8, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> I'm guessing that "horizon" meant that some of the guesses are in the works for near-future implementation (wi-fi, electronic ticketing), not that the guesses were necessarily close to what the surprise is.


But we know tha current plans and dates for adding Wi-Fi to the eastern Amfleet I (October) and California (November) corridor trains and E-ticketing (expected launch system wide in February 2012). Amtrak put that in a report that was posted on their website last week. Not that much of a "Surprise!". Expansion of Wi-Fi may be it, but we shall see.


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## afigg (Sep 8, 2011)

Anderson said:


> I'm running it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes. I've got to wonder...what would the Coast Daylight's timetable look like? The Coast Starlight runs LAX-EMY 10 AM-10 PM NB and 8 AM-9 PM SB...and honestly, though you _definitely _want daylight on that section of track, I can't see 12-hour LAX-Bay Area service _quite_ meriting two not-very-spaced-out trains per day unless the Coast Daylight will include some kind of fancy "Coach Plus" accommodations...the train. I'm also wondering if "split the train in San Jose" might not make more sense, too.


My understanding is that adding the Coast Daylight is in the California plans, but can't be implemented until they get additional equipment. Don't know if the 40 plus bi-level corridor cars that CA has been funded to purchase are enough to add the Coast Daylight service when the cars are delivered in 3-4 years.

As for the approx 12 hour trip time, if the Coast Daylight is going directly to San Francisco and not Emeryville, would that reduce the trip time by any appreciable amount?


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## Anderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, we got _one_ September surprise already...though I don't think it's what Amtrak's marketing had in mind. :help:


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## Michael061282 (Sep 9, 2011)

Just from the few times I've been to the left coast and ridden the Starlight from LA, I can say for sure that a Coast Daylight is needed. If they could slot it to leave LA between 8-9 am it would relieve a lot of local traffic between LA & Oakland that clogs up seats and even spills into the sleepers much more then I would have imagined. The market is definitely there.


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## Anderson (Sep 9, 2011)

I guess the question is why it wouldn't make more sense to slip an extra pair of coaches onto the train within that part of CA (say, LAX-Sacramento) than to run a full extra train. As to the spillover into the sleepers...as I understand it, the PPC is doing a lot of that, since it makes for a _very_ classy ride up the coast. The presence of a diner on a 12 to 13 hour trip is also a very good thing, too...there are reasons I wouldn't get caught dead on the Palmetto given the choice between it or a sanely-scheduled Silver, and the lack of a diner is a big part of that.

Of course, the extra frequency is definitely a good thing, and I'll grant that service into downtown SF plus a train that definitely won't get borked by a landslide further north is a good thing. I just wonder how much business it'll actually pull off of the longer services in the region unless Amtrak restricts reservations as well...though the solution of simply locking shorter CS reservations into a higher bucket might be viable.


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## jis (Sep 9, 2011)

afigg said:


> My understanding is that adding the Coast Daylight is in the California plans, but can't be implemented until they get additional equipment. Don't know if the 40 plus bi-level corridor cars that CA has been funded to purchase are enough to add the Coast Daylight service when the cars are delivered in 3-4 years.
> 
> As for the approx 12 hour trip time, if the Coast Daylight is going directly to San Francisco and not Emeryville, would that reduce the trip time by any appreciable amount?


Incidentally, rumor has it that California has acquired a gaggle of ex-NJT Comet cars, which are essentially Horizon cars with commuter seats, and those have been seen going through Beech Grove. I don't know what they are doing to them there, but rumor has it that these cars are for meeting capacity needs in California in the interim, while the 40 new bi-levels are acquired. I don;t know if this plays into the equation in some way.


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## Trogdor (Sep 9, 2011)

jis said:


> Incidentally, rumor has it that California has acquired a gaggle of ex-NJT Comet cars, which are essentially Horizon cars with commuter seats, and those have been seen going through Beech Grove. I don't know what they are doing to them there, but rumor has it that these cars are for meeting capacity needs in California in the interim, while the 40 new bi-levels are acquired. I don;t know if this plays into the equation in some way.


They are the old Comet IBs, which are the fluted-edge cars (maybe the old Arrows? I'm not too familiar with the nomenclature at NJT), not the Horizon car types.

They are slated to go onto the San Joaquin service next year, but the cars freed up from the San Joaquin are only going to increase capacity elsewhere (longer Capitol Corridor trains), they won't be used to add any new service. They might also help replace some of the Superliners that frequently find their way into California consists.


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## jis (Sep 9, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Incidentally, rumor has it that California has acquired a gaggle of ex-NJT Comet cars, which are essentially Horizon cars with commuter seats, and those have been seen going through Beech Grove. I don't know what they are doing to them there, but rumor has it that these cars are for meeting capacity needs in California in the interim, while the 40 new bi-levels are acquired. I don;t know if this plays into the equation in some way.
> ...


Right you are. They are the so called Comarrows, i.e. converted to trailers from Arrow II EMUs, so they are not like Horizon in looks. But the interior at NJT was similar to Comet Is, and not the later Comets.


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## had8ley (Sep 9, 2011)

Ryan said:


> No, I haven't forgotten about the crossover track - someone mentioned in a thread here recently that they had conceived a method of doing the switching without it in place.
> 
> As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.


Agreed...just start the train a few minutes earlier and all the switching time is moot....


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## had8ley (Sep 9, 2011)

Maybe the "BIG" surprise is an Amtrak official working hard at his desk in a glass cage in the middle of Washington Union Station...oh wait, I said the dirty word~ WORK !!! :lol:


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## afigg (Sep 9, 2011)

had8ley said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > No, I haven't forgotten about the crossover track - someone mentioned in a thread here recently that they had conceived a method of doing the switching without it in place.
> ...


If you mean in Chicago, the Capitol Limited provides connections from the western LD trains arriving in Chicago. If it were to leave 15 minutes earlier, that would narrow the connection window even more for trains arriving several hours late. With a skeletal LD network, it limits flexibility in scheduling, if they want to have connecting trains. However, this is all moot, because it should be pretty clear from the information posted here about the track changes not having done yet in Pittsburgh and the limits of available Viewliners, that putting sleepers and coaches on the Pennsylvanian to attach to the CL is not going to be the surprise nor happen in the next year.

With the initial Amtrak budget numbers in the House, unless the friends of Amtrak in the House along the Senate & the Administration make a serious effort to fight back to maintain the operational funding amounts at a minimum at current levels, that Amtrak will be forced to eliminate some LD trains. Which would be the unpleasant November or December surprise whenever the FY12 budget is settled on.


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## Lazy Z (Sep 9, 2011)

Michael061282 said:


> Just from the few times I've been to the left coast and ridden the Starlight from LA, I can say for sure that a Coast Daylight is needed. If they could slot it to leave LA between 8-9 am it would relieve a lot of local traffic between LA & Oakland that clogs up seats and even spills into the sleepers much more then I would have imagined. The market is definitely there.


It would be nice to arrive in Oakland at a "normal" time..I wanted to go this summer with my daughter, but just couldnt get around the fact that we would arrive close to midnight at a bus stop in San Francisco


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## jdcnosse (Sep 9, 2011)

fairviewroad said:


> jdcnosse said:
> 
> 
> > It's amazing the amount of comments this has gotten on here and on Facebook. 401 likes and 142 comments at the time of writing this. Makes you wonder if Amtrak's marketing team finally figured out a way to get the general public excited about trains. lol
> ...


Pretty much. lol I know that there was a movie, called Inside (aka The Inside Experience) which used social networking in real time during it's creation (it's more like a short film if you consider movies to be 1.5+ hours), but they split it into 11 days, and released each part of the movie then. A couple days ago they made an advertisement on Facebook about the "full film coming soon," and many people got upset after discovering it really was just all 11 parts put together for those that missed when the "filming" was being taken place.


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## rdeberti (Sep 10, 2011)

Maybe the Minot depot reopening so we have Empire Builder service again


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## jis (Sep 10, 2011)

In addition I have also heard recently from one of the members of the PIP committee that this change is not happening this year. But of course what would such a person know? hboy: Maybe he has not been informed yet that the plans have changed.


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## Oldsmoboi (Sep 10, 2011)

abcnews said:


> Maybe it's just adding a Viewliner sleeper on the Pennsylvanian to connect with the Capital Limited. A legendary route (The Broadway Limited) returns...
> 
> Anyway, I think that is about to happen. Not sure if this is about that...


The trackwork in Pittsburgh hasn't been completed for that.


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## Casinocim (Sep 10, 2011)

They are bringing back the Desert Wind. It's going to come rolling in to the new Plaza Hotel and casino in Vegas. I looked, the ramp and murals are still there!

I did think it odd the ramp is still there, since that whole area has been remodeled.. I like dreaming.


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## jis (Sep 10, 2011)

Casinocim said:


> They are bringing back the Desert Wind. It's going to come rolling in to the new Plaza Hotel and casino in Vegas. I looked, the ramp and murals are still there!
> 
> I did think it odd the ramp is still there, since that whole area has been remodeled.. I like dreaming.


GG-1 will go into an incredible state of ecstasy!


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## SunsetLimited01 (Sep 10, 2011)

jis said:


> Casinocim said:
> 
> 
> > They are bringing back the Desert Wind. It's going to come rolling in to the new Plaza Hotel and casino in Vegas. I looked, the ramp and murals are still there!
> ...


What is the surprise is an actually GG-1 restored and ready to run? It will be the biggest surprise in railroad history.


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 10, 2011)

Whatever this announcement will be, it's going to be a disappointment to all concerned.


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## GG-1 (Sep 10, 2011)

SunsetLimited01 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Casinocim said:
> ...


And that restored G can take me to my Daughter's house near Fullerton :wub: :giggle:  :lol:

Aloha


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## stlouielady (Sep 10, 2011)

Lazy Z said:


> Does anyone recognize the landscape??


I think it is a trestle on the Empire Builder route. I can't remember for sure where, but I think it is west of the Glacier National Park station, right east of the Essex station. If that is what it is, it is where the train crosses the Flathead River. I don't really know, I'm just taking a guess. I believe I've seen pictures of it elsewhere.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 10, 2011)

I believe it's the cutbank trestle.


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## Anderson (Sep 11, 2011)

So...any word on the surprise?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 11, 2011)

MikefromCrete said:


> Whatever this announcement will be, it's going to be a disappointment to all concerned.


Probably.

Although it's always possible that everyone on AU has somehow missed a key piece of evidence, if the pending "surprise" was really important it stands to reason that someone here (or a friend/college/relative of a member) would have provided some sort of indication that a big announcement was just around the corner. Since that does not appear to be the case this is most likely nothing more than a PR stunt. If done well maybe we'll all get a chuckle out of it. If done poorly we might end up regretting the whole episode. Here's hoping it's more of the former than the later. -_-


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## Lazy Z (Sep 11, 2011)

amtrakwolverine said:


> I believe it's the cutbank trestle.


Where is that?


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## dlagrua (Sep 11, 2011)

I still say the surprise is the 50% bonus on points purchased. I believe that's the most generous offer that Amtrak has made to date. Sept is 11 days old so is it logical to assume that something is coming on Sept 30th? Maybe, but don't count on it.


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## TraneMan (Sep 11, 2011)

Lazy Z said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > I believe it's the cutbank trestle.
> ...


Just past Cutbank MT.

I looked at the photos, and it matches to that photo on FB. So, it may be Empire Builder related??


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## Tumbleweed (Sep 11, 2011)

PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????


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## jmbgeg (Sep 11, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????


That would be AWESOME!


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## jmbgeg (Sep 11, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> I still say the surprise is the 50% bonus on points purchased. I believe that's the most generous offer that Amtrak has made to date. Sept is 11 days old so is it logical to assume that something is coming on Sept 30th? Maybe, but don't count on it.


How about lifting the point purchase cap?


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## Donctor (Sep 11, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????


Maybe a diner/lounge (CCC) operating as a first class lounge?


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## stntylr (Sep 11, 2011)

TraneMan said:


> Lazy Z said:
> 
> 
> > amtrakwolverine said:
> ...


Then maybe the surprise is that the EB will run on time for a while.


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## afigg (Sep 11, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> MikefromCrete said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever this announcement will be, it's going to be a disappointment to all concerned.
> ...


Calling it a PR stunt is a bit much. All Amtrak did was post a headline "Stay tuned in September for something special" with a photo on their Facebook page. I don't see any press releases or other teasers from Amtrak. Just a fairly modest teaser that people are taking and coming up with numerous impractical and obviously not going to happen ideas on what the something special is. People are speculating even over the meaning of the photo which is probably nothing more than a stock photo they used for the webpage.

Likely a minor "surprise", such as Wi-Fie being activated for the eastern Amfleet Is a few days early in September. October 1 is a Saturday, and I can't see them adding Wi-Fie on a weekend when they may need tech support staff to be available for the roll-out. Still fun to speculate about a positive development in the face of an all out attack on Amtrak from the Republican House.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 11, 2011)

afigg said:


> Calling it a PR stunt is a bit much.


No need to take offense. We'll call it a "PR surprise" if that makes you happy. :lol:



afigg said:


> People are speculating even over the meaning of the photo which is probably nothing more than a stock photo they used for the webpage.


If this guessing game turns out to be about some completely insignificant change that has absolutely nothing to do with the "clues" provided then I'd say it's a *flop*.



afigg said:


> I can't see them adding Wi-Fie on a weekend when they may need tech support staff to be available for the roll-out.


That's not usually how tech support works for a major commercial project. If the SLA says support will be available then the phone will be answered, the tech will be dispatched, and the resolution will be forthcoming. Otherwise money will be changing hands in the opposite direction.


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## amamba (Sep 12, 2011)

LOLOLOL

From today's amtrak update on Facebook:

Amtrak

Announcing National Train Day 2012! Join us May 12 as we once again celebrate America’s love for trains. Save the date, Trainiacs! http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

on.fb.me

Hopefully that wasn't their September surprise.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 12, 2011)

amamba said:


> LOLOLOL
> 
> From today's amtrak update on Facebook:
> 
> ...



Who knows. I would have expected them to post something related to the original post but maybe it is. lol

They did post a little bit below that asking why we think train travel is at an all time high...


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## spidersfan351 (Sep 12, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


I spoke to a senior Amtrak official two weeks ago on a Capital Ltd run, he and another one of their marketing guys were riding together to Chicago. We had a great time, I think we probably talked for four or five hours about all things Amtrak. Obviously, I cannot tell you with certainty that everything he told me was spot on, but he knew what he was talking about, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me two things for sure in the very near future:

1. They are moving the schedule on the Sunset to depart LA around 10:30pm, so as to make the south/eastbound connection with the Coast Starlight. They will make up for this by losing the switching in San Antonio and running straight through to Texas/CHI. The Sunset Ltd between SAS and NOL will be only a stub train, he said probably two coaches, a sleeper and a CCC. No SSL. This will improve the route here, allowing for "reasonable" stops in Houston, and likely on a daily basis. How they are getting UP to grant them daily service from LAX-SAS I have no idea, but he spoke with confidence that if I wanted to see Pecos High Bridge in daylight, I'd better hurry and do it before the end of the year.

2. They are adding a sleeper to the back of the Pennsylvanian. I was surprised, I did not think they had the VL equipment to do it with, and told him so, but he said they do. He said this should take place before the end of the year. These will be added to the back of the Cap Ltd in Pittsburgh, and yes, they will run a trans-dorm on the back to make this possible. He said this made a dramatic improvement in the Capitol's financial performance when they ran the projections last year.

I would love a daily Cardinal, but he said they are still negotiating with CSX on that, and while it was a goal, it probably won't be as soon as the two I've mentioned above.

Again, this man was very knowledgable, so I'm pretty sure it's happening soon. I would put my money on these two.


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## jis (Sep 12, 2011)

spidersfan351 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Trogdor said:
> ...


Plans could have changed since then since it is all an evolving situation, but I talked to a a gentleman who is a member of the PIP Committee, on the Cap and he gave the impression that item 1 above could happen this year and item 2 the next year. He did say that finding the Viewliner was not the biggest problem - worst case they could steal one from the Meteor since it does not run that full in the Sleeper apparently. It was working out the logistics in Pittsburgh. The issue had to do with staffing Pittsburgh with an additional crew or keeping the Pennsy crew on the clock to do the shunting at the rear of the Cap for the westbound. He also said that daily Cardinal is unlikely for the time being because of negotiation issues.

So I won't be surprised at all if the timing change of the Sunset happens. I will be somewhat surprised if the Pennys happens this year and I will be astonished if the Card daily happens this year.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 12, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/Amtrak/posts/10150306234159014

According to this post, the "surprise" hasn't been revealed yet. So it's not National Train Day 2012 (which would have been one heck of a surprise! NOT.)


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## Trogdor (Sep 12, 2011)

spidersfan351 said:


> I spoke to a senior Amtrak official two weeks ago on a Capital Ltd run, he and another one of their marketing guys were riding together to Chicago. We had a great time, I think we probably talked for four or five hours about all things Amtrak. Obviously, I cannot tell you with certainty that everything he told me was spot on, but he knew what he was talking about, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me two things for sure in the very near future:
> 
> 1. They are moving the schedule on the Sunset to depart LA around 10:30pm, so as to make the south/eastbound connection with the Coast Starlight. They will make up for this by losing the switching in San Antonio and running straight through to Texas/CHI. The Sunset Ltd between SAS and NOL will be only a stub train, he said probably two coaches, a sleeper and a CCC. No SSL. This will improve the route here, allowing for "reasonable" stops in Houston, and likely on a daily basis. How they are getting UP to grant them daily service from LAX-SAS I have no idea, but he spoke with confidence that if I wanted to see Pecos High Bridge in daylight, I'd better hurry and do it before the end of the year.
> 
> ...


The only part that might happen by the end of the year is the later #2 departure from LAX (and I would not call that "for sure" since the schedule change has not yet been approved by Union Pacific). The rest of it (stopping the switching in San Antonio and running a stub train SAS-NOL, and the through cars on the Capitol Limited to the Pennsylvanian) will not happen this year.

Otherwise, he was just repeating what was already mentioned in the PRIIA reports fo those routes (except that the stub Sunset will not have a sleeper).


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 12, 2011)

Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?


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## Trogdor (Sep 12, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?


Palmetto (15 hours).


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## Gratt (Sep 12, 2011)

OK they are really hamming it up.

just posted on FB

Amtrak

Something special is just around the corner!

Now it is two posts. At this point it better not be a temporary sale, or a new amenity like wifi. This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.

Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.


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## MiRider (Sep 12, 2011)

Gratt said:


> OK they are really hamming it up.
> 
> just posted on FB
> 
> ...


I disagree.

I would imagine that most of Amtrak's fb fans as well as the general passenger population aren't train fanatics nor are they all located in a specific geographical location with specific wish lists.

I believe that the *Something Special* will be just that.

Something that will interest and, hopefully, benefit the majority of their mainstream customers.

A sale, more AGR benefits, or wifi system wide would make me very happy.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 12, 2011)

Gratt said:


> This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.


I would assume that's pretty unlikely in an era of extreme budget cuts combined with severe restrictions on state funding. The only network level changes I'm expecting in the near future are reductions and discontinuations.



Gratt said:


> Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.


And to think they were looking so suave and sophisticated of late.


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## afigg (Sep 12, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?
> ...


Thought it should be noted that the Palmetto covers 829 miles in the 15 hours from NYP to Savannah (15:20 northbound but that is padding) while the Sunset Limited covers 573 miles New Orleans to San Antonio. Of course, the first 225 miles are on the NEC, but the Palmetto has an engine change in DC. Works out to a 55 mph average speed overall, which makes Palmetto reasonably competitive to driving over long pieces of the route.

The SL east of San Antonio averages 38 mph which is pretty slow and does not help with ridership numbers. Are the tracks from NOL to SAS in poor condition or is the route jammed up with enough freight traffic that Amtrak has to add a lot of padding? Or both?


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## afigg (Sep 12, 2011)

Gratt said:


> OK they are really hamming it up.
> 
> just posted on FB
> 
> ...


Presumably means that the "surprise" will be announced in the next several days. Curious to see how much of a "Surprise!" it will be.

The guesses here and on Facebook have covered a very wide range of wish lists, many of which are never going to happen without years of public funding and construction work. Put me down for not a total out of the blue surprise, but an announcement that will be surprising to the skeptics who do not expect any improvements in anything.


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## Tumbleweed (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm starting a rumor that they will triple all AGR points at no cost.........


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## Mackensen (Sep 12, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> I'm starting a rumor that they will triple all AGR points at no cost.........


Well, if we're starting wild rumors, I hear they're bring back the old _Wolverine_: sleeper service from Chicago on the old Michigan Central to New York.


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## stntylr (Sep 12, 2011)

The entire Amtrak system is being converted to MagLev.


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## GG-1 (Sep 12, 2011)

stntylr said:


> The entire Amtrak system is being converted to MagLev.


And will be capable of 600mph speeds.

Aloha


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## Donctor (Sep 12, 2011)

Introducing Amtrak's new Adopt-an-Engine program. You pay the adoption fee using the AGR credit card, you get to name the unit, and you can take as many pictures of it as you want. You _are_, however, responsible for feeding and maintaining it.


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## highballing (Sep 13, 2011)

The back of LD train cars will be converted into a strip club. There will be about a 15 dollar cover charge for coach passengers and no cover charge for sleepers. It will be called Amstrip Enjoy!!!


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## abcnews (Sep 13, 2011)

Considering it's Facebook, and the photo does have perhaps a hint (a baggage car). And it has to be something that they could actually "afford" to do... In other words, it wont be new LD service or purchase of ten dome cars. Here is a wild guess (that's all)... maybe it's bike racks on all trains with baggage cars? That would be nice to see happen - and it would be rather affordable, and it would appeal to a Facebook crowd.

But I don't think that is their surprise, but it's just a random guess 

I am looking forward to seeing what it is.


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## afigg (Sep 13, 2011)

abcnews said:


> Considering it's Facebook, and the photo does have perhaps a hint (a baggage car). And it has to be something that they could actually "afford" to do... In other words, it wont be new LD service or purchase of ten dome cars. Here is a wild guess (that's all)... maybe it's bike racks on all trains with baggage cars? That would be nice to see happen - and it would be rather affordable, and it would appeal to a Facebook crowd.


Bike racks won't be much of a surprise. When the Viewliner II order was announced last year, the news release said the new baggage cars would have bicycle racks. (Looked up the news release). Also can't make much hay on that because the new baggage cars are several years away from entering service in any substantial numbers.

Getting to more serious guesses, how about announcing the order of 40 Acela cars? Amtrak submitted a FY12 funding request to Congress for the first payment on an Acela order, but they might figure that it will be long wait on Congress, so just go ahead and place the order to get the cars as quickly as feasible.


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## spidersfan351 (Sep 13, 2011)

I don't think more Acela cars is much of a surprise to announce on Facebook. That is not something they would do this kind of buildup for, even on "social media".

I know they are trying to add bike capacity, and that does seem facebook appropriate, but I suppose I'd be a bit disappointed if that was all it was. I've heard that it's a simple matter of adding a rack across the old heritage baggage cars, so it's not crazy hard to make happen. Really, it's something that should have been done about ten years ago.


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## highballing (Sep 13, 2011)

Maybe finally E-ticketing on cell phones or printed tickets at home. That would be a surprise and effect everyone.


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## Trogdor (Sep 13, 2011)

Did the Amtrak post on Facebook ever actually say anything about a "surprise" (as in something that has never ever been mentioned to anyone in the public before)?

All I can see is "stay tuned for something special."

All the debate on here seems to be centered around a surprise announcement, with everyone ruling out everything that's already known.


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## reefgeek (Sep 13, 2011)

Resuming the Sunset Limited Orlando to LA AND ADDING new COAST TO COAST Auto-Train service from Lorton to a new Auto-Train Depot in Barstow, CA, allowing passengers to take their cars between the coasts... :wacko:


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## scoostraw (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok I guess I'll just have to spill the beans here.

Amtrak is poised to announce a new service where you can check any train's status via text from any cell phone.

No wait......


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## Casinocim (Sep 13, 2011)

A couple of gambling cars, one of them you can smoke in! I would love to play slots on a train trip. I like that idea.


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## Anderson (Sep 13, 2011)

scoostraw said:


> Ok I guess I'll just have to spill the beans here.
> 
> Amtrak is poised to announce a new service where you can check any train's status via text from any cell phone.
> 
> No wait......


Though perhaps a bit underwhelming from what it got built into with the "surprise" bit, that's not a bad thing. Thanks a bunch for letting us know.


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## afigg (Sep 13, 2011)

Anderson said:


> scoostraw said:
> 
> 
> > Ok I guess I'll just have to spill the beans here.
> ...


I think the OP is joking because the iPhone app to check status and buy tickets was releaased last month. Ok, maybe the "surprise" will be an Android version, but I doubt it if there is a "surprise!" at all.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 13, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/amtrak/full-amtrak-california-zephyr-service-restored/10150287397706127

They just posted a note saying that full CZ service was restored.


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## PerRock (Sep 13, 2011)

scoostraw said:


> Ok I guess I'll just have to spill the beans here.
> 
> Amtrak is poised to announce a new service where you can check any train's status via text from any cell phone.
> 
> No wait......


That already exsists.... I don't remember the exact syntax used to get status via text. But you can.

How about:

Deutsche Bahn AG announces their purchase of Amtrak, plans to upgrade all trunk lines to be high-speed capable. Electric trains preferred.

peter


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## jdcnosse (Sep 13, 2011)

PerRock said:


> scoostraw said:
> 
> 
> > Ok I guess I'll just have to spill the beans here.
> ...


Despite it being a foreign company, (and I'm not really too fond of foreign companies running things here), I'd be all for that. haha They could keep some LD trains for leisure purposes, but for travelling purposes they could use the HSR. I definitely don't mind travelling down to Flagstaff from Chicago on the SWC, it's relaxing and has nice views. The not as entertaining part is coming home. I'm one of those "I'd rather be home now so that it's closer to the time I can leave again" type of people. lol


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## Anderson (Sep 13, 2011)

Well, even in such a situation (as much of a pipe dream as it regrettably is), I think you'd have most of the LD trains survive...you'd just have the Southwest Chief beating the records of the old Super Chief by a light-year, you'd have overnight "business" service between New York and Miami (leave at 5/6 PM, arrive at 8/9 AM), Chicago and Denver, New York and Denver, and so on. Heck, you might even have decent New York-Toronto service come out of the deal.

JDC: What do you like, in particular, about running to Flagstaff rather than running through to LAX?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 13, 2011)

Anderson said:


> I think you'd have most of the LD trains survive...you'd just have the Southwest Chief beating the records of the old Super Chief by a light-year.


Modern passenger trains running _faster_ than trains from the distant past?! That sounds like nothing but crazy talk to me. :wacko:



Anderson said:


> JDC: What do you like, in particular, about running to Flagstaff rather than running through to LAX?


Presumably GFE > LAX.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 13, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > I think you'd have most of the LD trains survive...you'd just have the Southwest Chief beating the records of the old Super Chief by a light-year.
> ...


Well I wouldn't mind if the LD trains survived...I would just like them to be faster on the way home. lol



Texas Sunset said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > JDC: What do you like, in particular, about running to Flagstaff rather than running through to LAX?
> ...



Ding ding ding we have a winner! haha I've never gone all the way to LAX because my girlfriend goes to university in Flagstaff, so there's no need to go all the way through. Some day I will however be taking a trip up to SEA with her from either FLG or TUS. So we'd get to see LAX either way because both the SWC and SL go through LAX to connect to the CS.


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## Anderson (Sep 13, 2011)

JCD,

Ahhh...that makes perfect sense. Mind you, I've gone to Flagstaff twice (bungee jumping trips up at the Navajo bridge), but the destination _does_ attract attention.


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## PerRock (Sep 13, 2011)

jdcnosse said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> > scoostraw said:
> ...


In reality I could have picked any other company (I'm sure there is a US-based commuter operator, who I could have picked). I picked DB because they've been working on spreading their resources across Europe a lot lately, the know a thing or two about HSR (admittedly not as much as SNCF or JR), and have some experience in US operations as they were involved with WC for a short period (until they bought EWS).

peter


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## Donctor (Sep 14, 2011)

Ridership will top 30 million? That's not really a surprise, though, is it?


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## jdcnosse (Sep 14, 2011)

Anderson said:


> JCD,
> 
> Ahhh...that makes perfect sense. Mind you, I've gone to Flagstaff twice (bungee jumping trips up at the Navajo bridge), but the destination _does_ attract attention.


Yes it does, one place that neither I nor my girlfriend has been, and she's lived in the state her whole life! Lol


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## trainviews (Sep 14, 2011)

Donctor said:


> Ridership will top 30 million? That's not really a surprise, though, is it?


No - they had a press release out on it already in July...


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 14, 2011)

Can't call it a success just yet but at least they have our attention with eight pages or so of comments so far.

Let's just hope the payoff is more worthwhile than the typical Schlotzskys "surprise" of a free $0.05 worth of topping on your $8 sandwich meal.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 14, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Can't call it a success just yet but at least they have our attention with eight pages or so of comments so far.
> 
> Let's just hope the payoff is more worthwhile than the typical Schlotzskys "surprise" of a free $0.05 worth of topping on your $8 sandwich meal.


Don't forget it's gotta be a small or medium meal, because you know if you're paying extra for the large meal you don't get that free 5 cents.


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## VentureForth (Sep 14, 2011)

Have you priced an avacado lately? They are running about $1.50 here... Probably a 50-cent upgrade for free there.

I miss Schlotzky's....


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## stntylr (Sep 14, 2011)

Could it be the Martina McBride concert tour that was just announced?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 14, 2011)

Prices are up everywhere, just home from the Grocery store, Avacados were $1.80 for large, 80c for "small"! Scholtzkys was invented here in Austin, but there are better Sandwiches at better prices here! ThunderCloud Subs has good chow @ reasonable prices! (Except not this week, the ACL Music fest is happening so prices are in the New York Range!  :help: )


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## Lazy Z (Sep 14, 2011)

DOUBLE POINTS! Please tell me that is not our surprise!!


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## afigg (Sep 14, 2011)

stntylr said:


> Could it be the Martina McBride concert tour that was just announced?


It is possible that her cross country tour is the "something special" Amtrak marketing meant on the Facebook page last week. It does qualify as a surprise, although all not that major. The news release about her tour is on the Amtrak website. Described elsewhere as a four day tour to plug her new album. Excerpts from the release:

"Amtrak will partner with multi-platinum-selling country music superstar Martina McBride to launch “ELEVEN Across America Powered by Amtrak,” a four-day train ride to launch her upcoming Republic Nashville album, ELEVEN. In celebration of her new album, Martina’s tour will include 11 stops, starting in Los Angeles and culminating in New York City in October. Fans will be treated to intimate performances in Albuquerque, Chicago and NYC."

The route will cover two Amtrak LD train routes and the NEC.

"The whistle stop tour will travel to 11 cities across the nation: Los Angeles; Flagstaff, Ariz.; Albuquerque, N.M.; Newton, Kan.; Kansas City, Mo.; Chicago; Cleveland; Pittsburgh; Washington, D.C.; Philadelphia; and New York City."

Wonder what equipment the tour will use? With performances at 11 locations, can't piggyback the whole way on the SW Chief or Capitol Limited. Not unless short concerts in the middle of the night are ok. So special train with Superliners LAX to WAS and then switch to single level trains for Philly and NYC?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 14, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> Have you priced an avacado lately? They are running about $1.50 here... Probably a 50-cent upgrade for free there.


&


jimhudson said:


> Prices are up everywhere, just home from the Grocery store, Avacados were $1.80 for large, 80c for "small"!


Are y'all really trying to compare *fresh* avocados [note spelling] with the bags of *green goop* used in fast food restaurants like Schlotzsky's?! :blink:

Next you're going to be telling me that the cost of Fla·Vor·Ice went up because oranges and strawberries are no longer in season. :wacko:

Schlotzsky’s makes a decent fast-food sandwich, but if you think they're paying good money for mass produced toppings you need to take another look at what you're actually eating!

I happen to take guacamole pretty seriously and will happily fork over $5 to have it made fresh at our table without a second thought, but I don't have any respect for the cheap and nasty crap that comes out of a freezer bag at the local fast food joint.


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## bretton88 (Sep 15, 2011)

And Amtrak has revealed their surprise. They are giving away free roundtrip tickets daily until October 15th. Slightly underwhelming, but I'll take it anyways.


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## D.P. Roberts (Sep 15, 2011)

The prize looks is a voucher for 2 tickets anywhere Amtrak travels. As they say in the official rules, "Two (2) round-trip Amtrak tickets to anywhere in the U.S. serviced by Amtrak (ARV: $1,596.00 each). AMTRAK tickets will be awarded in the form of a voucher. Prizes must be used within 12 months of prize award or prize will be forfeited. All meals, transfers, taxes, upgrades and other expenses are not included, and are the sole responsibility of the winners. Substitutions and upgrades are not permitted." So, it looks like you can't upgrade to a sleeper using these tickets.

So here's my question: if you won, do you think you could choose to travel to from Lorton, Virginia, to Sanford, Florida? It does say "anywhere in the US serviced by Amtrak", but it also says "other restrictions may apply". I have a feeling they'd invoke that restriction.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2011)

While you might possibly be able to use it on the Auto Train route,but you'd have to check the fine print.

The prize does not include the fare for your vehicle and passengers are not allowed to travel on the Auto Train without also booking a vehicle.


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## dlagrua (Oct 5, 2011)

Here we are a couple of weeks after the contest started and no winners among the forum members? Whats the matter with these people? To ignore such a good looking, beautiful and loyal audience as we have here is unconscionable. Has Amtrak even posted a list of the winners? We need to know these things.


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## MrFSS (Oct 5, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Here we are a couple of weeks after the contest started and no winners among the forum members? Whats the matter with these people? To ignore such a good looking, beautiful and loyal audience as we have here is unconscionable. Has Amtrak even posted a list of the winners? We need to know these things.


Each day's winners are regularly posted on Facebook.


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## Reno89502 (Oct 5, 2011)

Well, there is ONE winner among the forum members. I won on the 21st. If you are a member of the Amtrak group on Facebook, just look for Christopher W. from York, PA.


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## jb64 (Oct 5, 2011)

Reno89502 said:


> Well, there is ONE winner among the forum members. I won on the 21st. If you are a member of the Amtrak group on Facebook, just look for Christopher W. from York, PA.


Congratulations. Where are you going to go?


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## Reno89502 (Oct 5, 2011)

Well, once I read the fine print, and if stopovers are allowed, I am going to go from Philly to K.C., stay 2 nights, K.C. to San Francisco, stay 2 nights, San Francisco to Seattle, stay 2 nights, and then Seattle back to Philly. The round-trip price is about $70 below what the prize value is, so I hope they allow it.  If not, it will just be Philly to San Francisco. Oh, by the way, since when did the CZ start stopping in Richmond, CA? When I moved from Reno in 2009, it passed by Richmond and went right into Emeryville.


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