# Comparing Piedmont to Silver Star and Carolinian Trains



## dive-in (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm a newbie here and have a few questions.

Background: My family is going to take the train from the Raliegh area to Washington DC. My kids are 13 and 10 and typically well behaved. I've taken the Piedmont train from Raleigh to the Charlotte area several times so I'm familiar with the service on that train. I was very happy with the coach seating on the trips and would be fine with it for the upcoming trip. After reading through several of the discussions here I'm not sure if I'm comparing apples to apples. So to my questions:

Is coach on the Piedmont (73/74) trains the same as coach on the Silver Star (91/92) or Carolinan (79/80) trains? I had plenty of room on the Piedmont, the cloth seats were comfortable, and they had tray tables and leg rests on the seats in front. I've read about different models of coaches and would like to know what they use on the Piedmont vs. the other two trains. Should I expect the same level of comfort?

I've been trying to decide whether to upgrade to business class on the trip to DC on the Carolinian. We try to keep our kids seen but not heard. One of the best ways is with movies on computer or portable DVD player. Access to power would be a key consideration. How available is power in coach? How reliable are the ports in both classes...will they actually work?

Finally, a 13 year old boy can be expected to be hungry every 10-15 minutes.  What kind of food is in the snack car on the Carolinian? I would expect more on the Silver Star with a dining car and lounge. Is it possible to get off the train at any of the stops for meals?

Thanks for the info.


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## MrEd (Jan 9, 2009)

The coach is different between these trains.

When I take the Carolianian, I go business class. You can plug your DVD in there for sure.


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## George Harris (Jan 9, 2009)

dive-in said:


> Finally, a 13 year old boy can be expected to be hungry every 10-15 minutes.  What kind of food is in the snack car on the Carolinian? I would expect more on the Silver Star with a dining car and lounge. Is it possible to get off the train at any of the stops for meals?


Getting off for meals between Raleigh and Washinton will not be pracitcal, not likely even possible. Having experienced the two legged tapeworm syndrome that is normal for a teenage boy, BRING FOOD. It will much cheaper than going to the snack car every time a hunger attack hits.


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## Shotgun7 (Jan 9, 2009)

Since the Piedmont service is run with NCDOT equipment, everything it uses is pretty different from the equipment on regular Amtrak trains. In terms of seating, the seats on both the Carolinian and Silver Service will be comprable to what you've experienced. AFAIK, the Carolinian's coaches are pretty similar to those of the Piedmont, while Silver trains use long distance coaches that seat less people in larger seats with more leg room. There might be one car in the consist without outlets, but most trains have two outlets for every row of seats.

As far as food is concerned, I agree with George. Both trains have similar style cafe cars that have the same, way overpriced microwaved and cold snacks and drinks. Whenever I travel, most of the space in my bag is taken up by drinks. Sure seems to make more sense to by a whole pack of soda for a few dollars as opposed to buying one can for $2 on Amtrak.

Business class on the Carolinian is usually the same as coach on the long distance Silver Star. And since Silver trains offer a full dining car with less stops and far more leg room, I'd personally go for the long distance train.

Happy travels!

Paul


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Jan 10, 2009)

Shotgun7 said:


> Since the Piedmont service is run with NCDOT equipment, everything it uses is pretty different from the equipment on regular Amtrak trains. In terms of seating, the seats on both the Carolinian and Silver Service will be comprable to what you've experienced. AFAIK, the Carolinian's coaches are pretty similar to those of the Piedmont, while Silver trains use long distance coaches that seat less people in larger seats with more leg room. There might be one car in the consist without outlets, but most trains have two outlets for every row of seats.
> Paul


If my memory serves me correctly, the "Carolinian" uses Amfleet I equipment for its coaches. Those seats are much closer together than the II's. Even the NCDOT's equipment on the "Piedmont" has a little more leg room than the Amfleet I's. We don't call them "Cramfleet I's" for nothin'! I am not sure what they use for business class these days. It used to be one Amfleet II coach (like the ones on the Florida trains), but I have seen Business Class within one half of the lounge car, too.

I would go with the "Star," myself. With the change to the later schedule out of RGH, it is not so early in the AM anymore, and the "Carolinian" doesn't call on RGH till darn near noon, and that puts you into WAS at a very busy time of day whereas the "Star" still gets you to WAS earlier than rush hour (if all stays on time that is).

OBS gone freight...


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## The Metropolitan (Jan 10, 2009)

I would recommend the Silver Star over the Carolinian with the main caveat being that this train could get crowded in Raleigh, and it might be hard to get all of you sitting together. Of course, you might be boarding in Cary for all I know, which might give you an edge. That said, I don't know how crowded the Carolinian gets with Charlotte and Greensboro riders, so it might be an issue there as well.

Legroom will be better on the Silver Star than the Carolinian due to the use of the A-II's over the A-I's. This might wind up being a moot point if you upgrade to Business Class on the Carolinian as the seating distance is similar, and you will get drink service out of that deal. I guess it comes down to a matter of if you're game to pay for the upgrades for all.

The one thing in which the Carolinian won't match the Silver Star for is the food. (Note that neither train has the free snack arrangement of the Piedmont - it's all pay as you chow)

The Carolinian will offer bag snacks (chips and pretzels), a few Entenman's items (cookies, danish, and pound cake), sodas and juice, and a few meal based items that are generally limited to Hot Dogs, Hamburgers, Gardenburgers, "pizza", and a cold turkey or tuna sandwhich as well as a salad option.

The Siler Star will offer pretty much all of these items in their Lounge Car (plus a few more like Bratwurst), but will also give you the option of a sit down meal in the diner, which tends to offer a somewhat fresher approach to dining, with rolls, salad, eggs cooked to order, etc.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 10, 2009)

Whoa everyone slow down...(for me anyway) I thought 79/80 were AM II??? I'm supposed to take it NYP to CLT in April thats 14+ hours and your telling me its AM I's? Say it ain't so...


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## The Metropolitan (Jan 10, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Whoa everyone slow down...(for me anyway) I thought 79/80 were AM II??? I'm supposed to take it NYP to CLT in April thats 14+ hours and your telling me its AM I's? Say it ain't so...


I'm afraid so...

Three options for ya.

1 - Muster up the $30 or so for a BC Upgrade, and you'll get at-seat drink service about 5 times during the trip.

2 - If you're on a shoestring, and want to pace the trip just a bit, consider rebooking your trip as a Multi-City trip and taking the A-II equipped Palmetto down to Rocky Mount, taking the hour or so break there between trains, and then take the 4-5 hour ride in the A-I on the Carolinian.

3 - Tough it out.

I won't even raise the Crescent as an option due to it's nasty calling time at Charlotte.


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## battalion51 (Jan 10, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Whoa everyone slow down...(for me anyway) I thought 79/80 were AM II??? I'm supposed to take it NYP to CLT in April thats 14+ hours and your telling me its AM I's? Say it ain't so...


Unfortunately the Carolinian has been running with Amfleet I's for just about as long as I can remember. There aren't enough Amfleet II's out there to be able to cover the two trainsets needed for the Carolinian to run with that equipment. The Palmetto is able to keep Amfleet II's because it had that type of equipment before the cutback to Savannah, so the cars were already allocated for the run. There's also the issue that 79 is effectively a Regional when it operates between NYP and WAS. The automatic doors that the Amfleet I's are therefore crucial for expedient boarding and detraining.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 10, 2009)

The Metropolitan said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa everyone slow down...(for me anyway) I thought 79/80 were AM II??? I'm supposed to take it NYP to CLT in April thats 14+ hours and your telling me its AM I's? Say it ain't so...
> ...


Sadly, I think I will have to go with option 3 as my parents can never quite see the light. Unless its a difference between Coach and Sleeper. At least I know now lol and when we board I look around and say isnt this an Amfleet II train lol.

Yeah, the crescent is out I think it gets to CLT at something like 3 20 AM. I'd rather just go on 79/80 then have to deal with those times. Plus, it would be a toss up would it be worth getting a sleeper or not.


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## battalion51 (Jan 10, 2009)

BC on the Carolinian isn't that bad. I did it from CLT to PHL a couple of years ago, and the train definitely hit the wall. I was antsy after 14 hours, but it was still pretty comfortable.


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## The Metropolitan (Jan 10, 2009)

The Carolinian is something of a "catch-22" train in my opinion in that Amtrak's yield on it probably has it in a position where it pretty much has to run the way it is.

It has particularly good ridership, as riders from the Northeast are particularly drawn to the combination of low fares and convenient stop locations in North Carolina in comparison to air travel.

However, the onboard experience probably leaves a bit to be desired, and may impact repeat ridership. Considering many if not most are on that train for 8 hours or more, and are there during meal times, both the seating and meal options could be vastly improved.

Instead of typical corridor stock A-I's, low density A-I's which routinely run the corridor in "coach" service would be ideal to be specidically used on this train as they would offer the comfort of an A-II with the automatic doors of an A-I. This would also be an ideal train to use a modified Diner Lite setup since it often has a steady stream of people awaiting service at the snack counter. Regional cuisine such as Pork BBQ would likely be a hit, and would be perfect for storage in the steam trays of the Diner Lite Cars.

But the Catch 22 is this - this train is already popular. I rode it on a Wednesday (typically a dead day for travel) out of DC and it was totally sold out in Coach and BC. If the A-I's are replaced with lower density coaches, it means fewer tickets available for sale, fewer low bucket tickets, and less overall revenue for Amtrak. It would be a better ride, but for fewer people.


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## AlanB (Jan 11, 2009)

The Metropolitan said:


> Instead of typical corridor stock A-I's, low density A-I's which routinely run the corridor in "coach" service would be ideal to be specidically used on this train as they would offer the comfort of an A-II with the automatic doors of an A-I. This would also be an ideal train to use a modified Diner Lite setup since it often has a steady stream of people awaiting service at the snack counter. Regional cuisine such as Pork BBQ would likely be a hit, and would be perfect for storage in the steam trays of the Diner Lite Cars.
> But the Catch 22 is this - this train is already popular. I rode it on a Wednesday (typically a dead day for travel) out of DC and it was totally sold out in Coach and BC. If the A-I's are replaced with lower density coaches, it means fewer tickets available for sale, fewer low bucket tickets, and less overall revenue for Amtrak. It would be a better ride, but for fewer people.


Yes, the Carolinian is the perfect type of train for a Diner-Lite car.

As for the latter problem, that's easy to fix, just add more cars.


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## dive-in (Jan 13, 2009)

The Metropolitan said:


> I would recommend the Silver Star over the Carolinian with the main caveat being that this train could get crowded in Raleigh, and it might be hard to get all of you sitting together. Of course, you might be boarding in Cary for all I know, which might give you an edge. That said, I don't know how crowded the Carolinian gets with Charlotte and Greensboro riders, so it might be an issue there as well.


Funny, we *will *be getting on at Cary. When I've taking the Piedmont, the crowds were light but that's always been on the weekends. Are things generally lighter on Saturdays on the trains I'm looking at taking? We are planning to travel on Saturday each way.

One reason I was leaning toward the Carolinian was the number of passengers and seat selection. I was worried that a lot of the seats would be filled on the Silver Star by the time it got to Cary. I was less concerned about getting 4 seats together on the Carolinian. After reading here about the difference between AM-I's and AM-II's I'm looking at both a little closer now.

I'm currently leaning towards the Silver Star to WAS and the Carolinian in BC on the way back. The times are just a little better.

Thanks for all the help.


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## VentureForth (Jan 13, 2009)

One recommendation (for drinks, that is), is to pack those 'instant' drink pouches that you mix with water. That way, you don't carry the weight, and you can refill your bottle from the potable water stations throughout the train.


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## VT Hokie (Jan 13, 2009)

When I took business class on the Carolinian, the train used an Amfleet II as the business class car. They even showed movies onboard, but in typical Amtrak fashion, service has gone downhill. The movie screens are no longer there, and I think they may no longer even use an Amfleet II coach for business class on that train. Hopefully they at least use a real business class Amfleet I, with 60 seats.


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## The Metropolitan (Jan 13, 2009)

I think you might be ok in travelling on a Saturday. Boarding in Cary can only be a plus in my book, as even if you don't get group seats immediately upon boarding, you'll get the jump on Raleigh riders to shuffle about a bit when people alight there.

The Silver up/Carolinian back seems like a good idea as well. You'll likely be having 2 meals on the ride up and will have more eating options. For the ride back, it looks like you should be fine with just having lunch from the Amsnacker.


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