# Detroit-to-Chicago rail plan: 110 m.p.h., 10 daily trips



## reppin_the_847 (Oct 30, 2014)

In case you guys missed it, here's an article from Wednesday's (Oct. 29th) Detroit Free Press newspaper regarding the Detroit - Chicago HSR corridor. Check it out!:

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/10/29/high-speed-rail-boost-roundtrips-detroit-chicago/18088995/

After reading the article, check out the Chicago - Detroit Passenger Rail Corridor Program link:

http://www.greatlakesrail.org/


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## Anderson (Oct 30, 2014)

This is interesting, yes; I'm wondering, though, how they're expecting to knock _that_ much time off of the trips. My best guess is a smoother entrance into Chicago...which would hopefully have some advantages for Amtrak as well, since that area has been notoriously slow for quite some time.


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## crew (Oct 30, 2014)

That's adorable how they call 110 m.p.h. "high speed". That's conventional speed in most of Europe and Asia, and has been for half a century.


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## City of Miami (Oct 30, 2014)

I rode Wolverine 353 from Detroit to Chicago Monday. The 110 mph part was fun - and announced by the conductor. But it was relatively short and totally wiped out by the half hour wait in Porter to get on the mainline. Then there were further delays so that we arrived 100 minutes late. There were 4 Horizon coaches, a café car and an engine at each end and the train was probably 75% full. We also did some unusual backup/reverse direction move right after leaving Detroit. I liked the Horizon coaches which seemed roomier to me.


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 30, 2014)

reppin_the_847 said:


> In case you guys missed it, here's an article from Wednesday's (Oct. 29th) Detroit Free Press ...
> 
> http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/10/29/high-speed-rail-boost-roundtrips-detroit-chicago/18088995/
> 
> ...


LOL. I had read the Draft EIS, but maybe after my bedtime, so

I missed a lot. I learned more from re-reading. Recommend the

"self-guided tour". That's where I found this interesting info re

the Midwestern bi-level cars coming from Nippon Sharyo. For

the _Wolverines _route, they plan a Next Gen locomotive hauling

six cars. Four coaches with 89 seats each, one cab/baggage

car with 74 seats, and one cafe/business car with 33 seats,

for a total of 463 seats on each train.


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## Eric S (Oct 30, 2014)

Anderson said:


> This is interesting, yes; I'm wondering, though, how they're expecting to knock _that_ much time off of the trips. My best guess is a smoother entrance into Chicago...which would hopefully have some advantages for Amtrak as well, since that area has been notoriously slow for quite some time.


Appendix C has proposed schedules for Year 2035 with 10 R/Ts. (So far I've just glanced at them, so I haven't looked a how much time comes out of each segment.) The project includes the South of the Lake route, so an essentially dedicated 2-track line between Chicago and Porter.

I attended the meeting in Chicago for this project and one thing that caught my attention was on a handout, so I'm not sure if it's in the DEIS. The handout, which details ongoing improvements along the corridor in IL, IN, and MI notes that:

"Once the proposed track work and signal upgrades are completed, MDOT will increase the speeds up to 110 miles per hour from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek and from Ypsilanti to Dearborn. Speeds from Battle Creek to Ypsilanti will remain at 79 miles per hour or less until MDOT performs future track projects that allow faster speeds."

I guess I had just assumed that the current work in MI involved increasing speeds along the entire Kalamazoo-Dearborn portion (or at least where possible).

It was also noted that the West Detroit Connection is scheduled for completion in late 2015.


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 30, 2014)

Anderson said:


> This is interesting, yes; I'm wondering, though, how they're expecting to knock _that_ much time off of the trips. My best guess is a smoother entrance into Chicago...which would hopefully have some advantages for Amtrak as well, since that area has been notoriously slow for quite some time.


Currently run time of 5:36, planned for 3:46 by 2035, or 1:50 savings.

About half of the time saved will come from the upgrades underway on the trackage Dearborn-Kalamazoo, and so the new schedules should kick in about the same time that the bi-levels come into the fleet, 2017 or so.

Then spend $2.4 to $3 Billion South of the Lake to get the other hour cut.

Fun footnotes on C-1


Assume West Detroit Connection Track Project will save 12 minutes between Dearborn and Detroit. 

Assume mid-corridor trains to Chicago and Detroit from Battle Creek and Kalamazoo respectively 

Assume that the Indiana Gateway projects will reduce the recovery time going into Chicago Union Station by 5 minutes. 

That 12 minute savings from the West Detroit Connection Project could kick in soonish, not 2015, maybe FY 2016, and by Sept 2017 for sure.

I'd assumed some mid-corridor trains from Kalamazoo/Battle Creek, but this is first time I've seen them promised in print.

The Indiana Gateway projects were gonna save a lousy 5 minutes, but with the ongoing mess on NS in this area, never mind.


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 30, 2014)

Eric S said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > … I'm wondering, though, how they're expecting to knock _that_ much time off of the trips. ...
> ...


Don't think it's in the Draft EIS.

I'd also assumed that most of the Kalamazoo-Dearborn stretch would be

upgraded to 110-mph capability. In fact, it's in print that 75% or 80% of

the track will do 110 mph. But then, I found in a 2010 Press Release from

Michigan's Senators, "The state will receive $150 million to purchase

and restore the 135-mile track between Kalamazoo and Dearborn. The

project will restore intercity passenger *rail speeds up to 79 miles per hour, *

*with an ultimate goal *of creating a rail segment capable of speeds of up to

110 miles per hour."

http://www.levin.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=2bdb0757-9e8c-465a-93ec-f4ba85d038e5#sthash.aF2bpbNk.dpuf

Well, they're leaving themselves plenty of room for improvement.

And I stand corrected on the West Detroit Connection completion date.

Except that I'm always skeptical of deadlines of this sort. LOL.

But it would be great to grab that 10 or 12 minutes a.s.a.p. When the train

slows to 10 or 15 mph, then stops, reverses onto a wye --- no, no, no, no.

Every bad impression of slowness and apparent incompetence is reinforced.

So fixing this one worst bottleneck should improve the _Wolverines_' Customer

Satisfaction scores all by itself.


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## Anderson (Oct 31, 2014)

That timetable is exceedingly fascinating. In particular, it's clear that they're trying to resurrect the old commuter service from Jackson to Detroit as part of this service. Kalamazoo actually gets pretty good commuter-oriented service going both ways, partly by design and (I suspect) partly by geographical accident.

Over in the ridership projections, some interesting stuff in the full build:
-The busiest station is, unsurprisingly, Chicago Union Station. #2 is a bit of a surprise, however: Ann Arbor, MI by a long shot (at around 50% of Chicago's business). This is followed by Kalamazoo, MI (which is just ahead of the two Detroit stations).

-Towards the end of the study period, load factors actually peak out between Battle Creek and Jackson (they're high out of Chicago, slide off a bit heading west, and then pop up a bit at Kalamazoo/Battle Creek). Oddly, it's about halfway through the study period that Battle Creek shifts from being a net-discharge station for EB trains/net add station for WB trains to being the reverse. I'm not quite sure what's driving this.

-Frankly, the socioeconomic projections look like bunk to me. On the one hand, I do expect some increase in per capita income...if only because Detroit couldn't get much worse. On the other hand, the sorts of broad-based improvements projected in the report seem a bit unrealistic to me given that they're couched in present-day dollars.


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## neroden (Oct 31, 2014)

Eric S said:


> "Once the proposed track work and signal upgrades are completed, MDOT will increase the speeds up to 110 miles per hour from Kalamazoo to Battle Creek and from Ypsilanti to Dearborn. Speeds from Battle Creek to Ypsilanti will remain at 79 miles per hour or less until MDOT performs future track projects that allow faster speeds."
> 
> I guess I had just assumed that the current work in MI involved increasing speeds along the entire Kalamazoo-Dearborn portion (or at least where possible).


Well, if you've looked at Battle Creek to Ypsilanti on Google Maps, you'll probably notice how twisty it is, and it's hemmed in by residential development most of the way. I'm not sure 110 mph is going to be achievable for very long anyway; a consistent 79 would be more valuable if acheivable (which it probably isn't). By contrast, Ypsilanti to Dearborn is completely straight. Kalamazoo to Battle Creek is twisty, but it looks like the curves are gentler and there's more cheap land to use to straighten it out.



> It was also noted that the West Detroit Connection is scheduled for completion in late 2015.


This should cut 12 minutes off the trip all by itself; maybe more.


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