# Question about the Disability Discount



## RRrich (Apr 21, 2010)

The Senior Discount, the AAA Discount and most others are a percent off the railfare only, not the accommodation charge. Is this also true of the Disability Discount?


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## sunchaser (Apr 21, 2010)

RRrich said:


> The Senior Discount, the AAA Discount and most others are a percent off the railfare only, not the accommodation charge. Is this also true of the Disability Discount?


Yes, it only applies to the rail fare.


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## hippyman (Apr 21, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> RRrich said:
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> > The Senior Discount, the AAA Discount and most others are a percent off the railfare only, not the accommodation charge. Is this also true of the Disability Discount?
> ...



What disabilities qualify for this discount?


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## sunchaser (Apr 21, 2010)

hippyman said:


> sunchaser said:
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Mobility Impairment. Go  here  for further info.


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## RRrich (Apr 22, 2010)

We have a letter from one of Wifey's Doctors that the Doctor is treating wifey for a condition that results in a MOBILITY IMPAIRMENT.

I don't think that we need tell all of Amtrak what Wifey's problem (other than me) is.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

It only says mobility impairment for the bedroom reservations. The rail fare discount is for all disabled.



> Who May Reserve Accessible Accommodations
> Up until 14 days prior to the departure of each train from its origin city, reservations for accessible bedrooms may be made only for passengers who are mobility impaired.





> Details About Discounts
> Amtrak offers a rail fare discount to passengers with disabilities. To receive the discount you must book your reservation by telephone or at a ticket counter. Sorry, discounts are not available when you book online.
> 
> You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.


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## DowneasterPassenger (Apr 22, 2010)

Guest said:


> You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.


In the US the most universally recognized proof of disability is a Medicare card.


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## Hytec (Apr 22, 2010)

Last summer, I reserved tickets and space for my wife ("mobility impaired") and myself on the Crescent for travel in late September. During the initial phone conversation, the reservation agent gave me a quote for the entire round trip including a generic bedroom that was the same as I had just researched online. However, when I requested Bedroom H, the agent immediately recalculated and reduced the fare by nearly 50%, including accomodation. Although we were prepared to provide a doctor's letter explaining my wife's condition upon boarding (recommended by the agent), it was not requested, presumably because her impairment is obvious.

BTW, the SCAs and Conductors (both out and return trips) could not have been more gracious and helpful.


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## EB_OBS (Apr 22, 2010)

Guest said:


> Details About Discounts
> Amtrak offers a rail fare discount to passengers with disabilities. To receive the discount you must book your reservation by telephone or at a ticket counter. Sorry, discounts are not available when you book online.
> 
> You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.


Amtrak teaches yearly refresher courses to it's personnel. In the customer service section it's taught that asking a person about their disability is inappropriate and in most cases against the law. Pretty much according to the ADA the only time you may ask a person about their disability or ask for proof is upon that person making a request for a monetary discount. Thus, it's unlikely that once you've acquired your tickets, anyone else would ask you about any disability or impairment when boarding the train. If you have a reservation but for whatever reason purchase your tickets on board from the conductor then that conductor is in the same situation as a ticket agent. He'll ask or should ask to see written validation for the discount request.


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## RRrich (Apr 22, 2010)

Hytec said:


> Last summer, I reserved tickets and space for my wife ("mobility impaired") and myself on the Crescent for travel in late September. During the initial phone conversation, the reservation agent gave me a quote for the entire round trip including a generic bedroom that was the same as I had just researched online. However, *when I requested Bedroom H, the agent immediately recalculated and reduced the fare by nearly 50%, including accomodation*. Although we were prepared to provide a doctor's letter explaining my wife's condition upon boarding (recommended by the agent), it was not requested, presumably because her impairment is obvious.
> BTW, the SCAs and Conductors (both out and return trips) could not have been more gracious and helpful.


Bedroom H is billed as a ROOMETTE with the handicap discount.


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## Hytec (Apr 22, 2010)

RRrich said:


> Bedroom H is billed as a ROOMETTE with the handicap discount.


Thanks, that explains why the reduction was so large.


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## hippyman (Apr 22, 2010)

EB_OBS said:


> Guest said:
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> > Details About Discounts
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Here's the thing, I am on SSA, for epilepsy. Naturally, I dont need the handicapped room, and wouldnt want to use up the space, but I would like to get a discount if I could.


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## George Harris (Apr 22, 2010)

hippyman said:


> Here's the thing, I am on SSA, for epilepsy. Naturally, I dont need the handicapped room, and wouldnt want to use up the space, but I would like to get a discount if I could.


Does not equal being *mobility* impaired. However, could be that the disability discount would apply, as obviously there are disabilities that affect your ability to work or do other things than have nothing to do with mobility.


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## volkris (Apr 23, 2010)

Not to be inconsiderate, but why does Amtrak offer a mobility impairment discount in the first place? Isn't it more likely that such passengers cost MORE to serve, and thus offering a discount goes in the opposite direction?

It's not like Amtrak is awash in money and thus in a position to be charitable...

EDIT nevermind, just saw in the other thread that it's not so much a discount as an upgrade to "create" an accessible roomette. Still a questionable policy, but one that's required by law.


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## sunchaser (Apr 24, 2010)

volkris said:


> Not to be inconsiderate, but why does Amtrak offer a mobility impairment discount in the first place? Isn't it more likely that such passengers cost MORE to serve, and thus offering a discount goes in the opposite direction?
> It's not like Amtrak is awash in money and thus in a position to be charitable...
> 
> EDIT nevermind, just saw in the other thread that it's not so much a discount as an upgrade to "create" an accessible roomette. Still a questionable policy, but one that's required by law.


Since Amtrak is Federally funded, it is required to provide 'access' for people with disabilities.

I have no problem with any specific discount.

Amtrak also provides discounts for Military, Students, Children, AAA, Seniors, NARP, Veterans, etc.

They just don't apply to the Bedrooms/Roomettes.

I do have a question, though. Did the current sleepers always have an H bedroom? Or when were they added?


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## had8ley (Apr 24, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> volkris said:
> 
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> > Not to be inconsiderate, but why does Amtrak offer a mobility impairment discount in the first place? Isn't it more likely that such passengers cost MORE to serve, and thus offering a discount goes in the opposite direction?
> ...


Both sets of Superliners and the Viewliner order of 50 were built with H rooms from day 1. Amtrak tried an "accessible" roomette on some Heritage 10/6 equipment by taking two roomettes and making one spacious roomette at the end of the car. I don't think many cars were converted knowing that Viewliners were in the works.


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Apr 24, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> volkris said:
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> > EDIT nevermind, just saw in the other thread that it's not so much a discount as an upgrade to "create" an accessible roomette. Still a questionable policy, but one that's required by law.
> ...


The requirement has nothing with being federally funded. With some very specific exceptions, accessibility for the mobility impaired and a whole list of other difficulties, is required of any facility that is open to the public, no matter who pays for making it possible.


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## sunchaser (Apr 24, 2010)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> sunchaser said:
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Maybe I should rephrase-Since Amtrak is owned by the Federal Government, it is required to follow all Federal law, one of which is disability accessibility. If you look at budgets or funding for Amtrak, you will also see funding directed specifically to providing access for the disabled whether on the train or at the station.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> Guest_George Harris_* said:
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but does the law say they must give a discount? In my mind accessibility is stuff like elevators and wheelchair lifts. Are the discounts just good will or actually part of the law.


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## sunchaser (Apr 24, 2010)

I don't know if a discount is required. I would think that unlikely. As I mentioned before, there are many discounts available for Amtrak passengers in general.


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## tp49 (Apr 24, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> Guest_George Harris_* said:
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Privately owned entities have to follow federal law as well if they operate within the US. The term you might be looking for is "common carrier."


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## sunchaser (Apr 24, 2010)

tp49 said:


> sunchaser said:
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> > Guest_George Harris_* said:
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Thank you! I think that is the proper term for it.


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## deafrailfan (Apr 24, 2010)

Amtrak gives me disability discount to the train fare.


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## JAChooChoo (Apr 24, 2010)

SanJoaquinRider said:


> Guest said:
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> > You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.
> ...


*The Medicare card is a proof of insurance card not of dusability.*


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## sunchaser (Apr 24, 2010)

JAChooChoo said:


> SanJoaquinRider said:
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That is correct. But in some cases, if you are young & are on Medicare, then the reason could be a disability.

You could also be on Medicaid if you are disabled.


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## alanh (Apr 25, 2010)

Mobility impaired customers are more or less stuck in one place, and can't enjoy the lounge, Pacific Parlour Car, other special services like dome cars, or the diner (though they can have meals delivered to their seat). That may be the basis for the discount. As mentioned above, the H room discount is because there's no accessible roomette.


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## DowneasterPassenger (Apr 25, 2010)

Most US transit systems including Amtrak accept Medicare cards as proof of disability for the purpose of discounts.

Some transit systems (SF Muni comes to mind) require their own special card.

There seems to be some confusion around the terms "disabled" vs. "mobility impaired". People can be disabled and unable to work and collect SSI or SSDI for a wide variety of conditions including AIDS, epilepsy, personality disorders, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, and chronic fatigue syndrome, none of which necessarily make them mobility impaired or even have anything apparently wrong with them to an untrained eye.

On the other hand, there are mobility impaired people who work full time and have no need to collect SSI or SSDI.

And obviously there are people who are both.

Amtrak is somewhat sensitive to this distinction because they offer both disability discounts and accessible rooms on different terms. Where they lack sensitivity to it is in their web site and quik-trak machines. A disabled person who is not mobility impaired has to call a reservations agent or go to a ticket agent and ask for the discount. The reservations agent always asks, "Do you need assistance boarding?"


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## had8ley (Apr 25, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> I don't know if a discount is required. I would think that unlikely. As I mentioned before, there are many discounts available for Amtrak passengers in general.


I know for a fact that the disability discount has been around for around 20 years; maybe longer. The Federal law suit, brought on by a disabled pax, mandated an additional 15% discount that I think lasted 10 years and ended around 2000.


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## AAARGH! (Apr 26, 2010)

Because disabled individuals _must_ use the H-room (because they can't physically use roomettes), they would be forced to pay the full bedroom fare. BY LAW, they must be offered the lowest cost type of room on the train, thus they pay roomette prices.

I just ran into the same thing for my 99 year old grandmother (and an attendant - ME!) when buying theater show tickets. The handicapped seats are in the most expensive section of the theater, but the rest of the family will be sitting in a mid-priced section. When I enquired, they told me that by law they must offer me the seats at whatever price-level I ask (equivalent to other seats in the theater). So I asked to pay the mid-priced level. I could have asked the lowest level, but since the theater is a non-profit, I didn't want to rook them out of too much money.

It's only fair!!! (or fare?  )


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## sunchaser (Apr 26, 2010)

AAARGH! said:


> Because disabled individuals _must_ use the H-room (because they can't physically use roomettes), they would be forced to pay the full bedroom fare. BY LAW, they must be offered the lowest cost type of room on the train, thus they pay roomette prices.
> I just ran into the same thing for my 99 year old grandmother (and an attendant - ME!) when buying theater show tickets. The handicapped seats are in the most expensive section of the theater, but the rest of the family will be sitting in a mid-priced section. When I enquired, they told me that by law they must offer me the seats at whatever price-level I ask (equivalent to other seats in the theater). So I asked to pay the mid-priced level. I could have asked the lowest level, but since the theater is a non-profit, I didn't want to rook them out of too much money.
> 
> It's only fair!!! (or fare?  )


I was not aware that they are required to give a discount. I really don't see an issue with it though. Most (not all) that are disabled are on a fixed income anyway.

The H bedroom can be used by non disabled passengers according to the Amtrak website:

*Who May Reserve Accessible Accommodations*

* *

*Up until 14 days prior to the departure of each train from its origin city, reservations for accessible bedrooms may be made only for passengers who are mobility impaired.*

* *

*After this period, and if all other Deluxe and Family bedrooms have been reserved, accessible bedrooms are made available to all passengers on a first-come, first-served basis. For this reason, we urge you to make your reservations as far in advance of travel as possible.*


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## RRrich (Apr 26, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> I was not aware that they are required to give a discount. I really don't see an issue with it though. Most (not all) that are disabled are on a fixed income anyway. The H bedroom can be used by non disabled passengers according to the Amtrak website:


But the non disabled would have to pay for the room as a BEDROOM not a roomette


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## volkris (Apr 27, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> I was not aware that they are required to give a discount. I really don't see an issue with it though. Most (not all) that are disabled are on a fixed income anyway.


The issue is that Amtrak, an entity that we would like to see continue and that is in need of all the funding it can get, fails to receive the full fare from these passengers while possibly having to spend more resources to serve them and lose the possibility of selling a room to someone who would pay full fare.

Yes, Amtrak gives discounts to other groups, but those discounts are (hopefully) strategic and responsible: offer student discounts to hook college kids early and collect full fare from non-student companions; offer AARP discounts to maintain both the patronage and political support of that huge group; etc. Those are legitimate PR and marketing strategies.

So let's put it this way: it would be nice (and for all I know it is the case) if the Federal Government that mandates the discount would reimburse Amtrak for the difference every time it served a disabled person. Then the issue really would be moot from the point of view of Amtrak.


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## rrdude (Jul 12, 2010)

Was going to book my in-laws two roomettes on lower level of AT, but thought that the H room would be better, as dad-in-law is very frail, with Parkinson's, and has trouble walking. Silly question, but is H room on Superliner outfitted with Two Beds?

Believe it is, according to diagram, but have never used, so want to verify.

Thanks.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes, the H room has two beds, upper and lower similar to a roomette! The toliet is open with a curtain between the beds and the toliet!FWIW the upper bed is no easier to get into/out of than a roomette IMO!


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## Alice (Jul 12, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Was going to book my in-laws two roomettes on lower level of AT, but thought that the H room would be better, as dad-in-law is very frail, with Parkinson's, and has trouble walking. Silly question, but is H room on Superliner outfitted with Two Beds?
> 
> Believe it is, according to diagram, but have never used, so want to verify.
> 
> Thanks.


It has upper and lower bunks like a roomette. They convert to seats and table, also like roomette. Although these rooms are often compared to bedrooms, my understanding is the lower bed is closer to roomette width than bedroom width.

The toilet has a grab bar.

Is your mother-in-law able to climb to upper bunk? "Stairs" are built in and it is a long last step to the top. There is no ladder. If not, you'll want a backup plan. Sleep on floor? Squeeze both into single bed? Curl up on toilet? Sleep in shifts?

Perhaps reserve H-room and nearby roomette instead of two roomettes? With disability, this would cost about the same as two roomettes. However, they'll be a little further apart as there is nothing but toilets and a shower in same area as H-room. There are roomettes down the hall on the same level, though.


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## rrdude (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't think either one of them is going to be "upper bunk" material, so I'll go ahead an reserve the H, and another lower level roomette.

Thanks all.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 12, 2010)

Guest said:


> Yes, the H room has two beds, upper and lower similar to a roomette! The toliet is open with a curtain between the beds and the toliet!FWIW the upper bed is no easier to get into/out of than a roomette IMO!


I think that is the point, too often missed. The "H" room is a roomette equivalent, that has been modified to allow accommodation of a mobility handicapped passenger (and their guest). Due to the accommodations, the "H" room is larger than a regular roomette, but for a mobility handicapped passenger (and their guest), it is priced as a roomette.

Their guest is assumed to not need any accommodations, and can handle using the room as if it was a roomette (ie, climb into the upper bunk). If they too need similar accommodations, they need to request their own "H" room.


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## Alice (Jul 12, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Their guest is assumed to not need any accommodations, and can handle using the room as if it was a roomette (ie, climb into the upper bunk). If they too need similar accommodations, they need to request their own "H" room.


Agreed. I think the assumption is the 2nd person is a nurse or attendant. Amtrak does not have facilities for two people with disabilities to travel together as those two H-rooms would be in different cars, with no way to get between them unless one person can do stairs. I have considerable mileage traveling with people "more" disabled than me, so have actually used all of those bizarre alternatives I listed earlier. I still found Amtrak to be easier than car or plane when I'm the one helping someone get dressed, or bathe, or eat, etc.


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## AlanB (Jul 12, 2010)

I agree that it sounds like you may need to either get the H-room and a roomette or two roomettes. The H-room would make it much easier if dad-in-law will need help actually using the facilities.

I will also say that the AT is probably one of the best trains for them to travel on, since the crews tend to be better than the norm on that train. They also see many more seniors than most of the other trains do and therefore are more used to having to provide extra assistance as needed.


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## barbark2003 (Jul 12, 2010)

Would I be eligible for the H Room? I was in a horrific truck accident 10 years ago which i broke my back in 2 places, neck in 1 place, both legs and ankles. although that has all healed up the best it can, I still have problems walking bending, climbing steps.and need to be close to a restroom at all times. Would I qualify for the H room discount? I have my Soc Sec Disability card with me at all times. along with my medicare card.


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## barbark2003 (Jul 12, 2010)

I am wondering if I qualify for the H room. A few years ago I was in a severe truck accident that left both of my legs broken, my neck broken in 2 places and my back broken along with my shoulder. I am on permanet desability now, I do carry a medicare card. Would i qualify for this room? Thank you


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## gswager (Jul 12, 2010)

barbark2003 said:


> I am wondering if I qualify for the H room. A few years ago I was in a severe truck accident that left both of my legs broken, my neck broken in 2 places and my back broken along with my shoulder. I am on permanet desability now, I do carry a medicare card. Would i qualify for this room? Thank you


Usually, but not always, that room is reserved for mobility impaired, usually with wheelchairs or even walking cane. Only way to reserve the room is to call, not online. About two weeks prior to departure date, that room is up for available to anyone. Sounds like you're qualified for it. However, it wouldn't hurt for you call Amtrak customer service.

Handicapped rooms in Western long distance trains are located in lower level of double deck. To reach to other car, the only way is to access on upper level. However, the attendant will assist you with meals.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 13, 2010)

barbark2003 said:


> I am on permanet desability now, I do carry a medicare card. Would i qualify for this room? Thank you


My kid is permanently disabled, and has a medical assistance card. However, he is not mobility impaired so he would not IMHO qualify for the "H" room.

Do you have a handicap licence plate or rvm placard? While that too is not a guarantee, I believe they are only issued to those who are mobility disabled.


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