# New Look for Amtrak California Motorcoaches



## rickycourtney (Nov 6, 2013)

Over two years ago now Amtrak California quietly abandoned its orange "4 arrows" logo for a new blue/teal "CT" logo (it's the same logo used by California Department of Transportation).

Slowly but surely the rail cars have been having their logos swapped out (I'd estimate about half of the equipment now has the new logo.)

But the buses never received the new logo... as a matter of fact the new buses received no logos at all (just the same paint that matches the look of the railcars.) That is until now... I first spotted this brand new motorcoach a few weeks ago... but I didn't have a camera handy until one passed me as I drove home from work tonight.




It's hard to read but the side of the bus says "Amtrak California Your train connection." (Hopefully I'll spot this bus on my trip down south this weekend, and be able to snap a better picture.) The text appears to be an all-white reflective decals and compared to the old logo... this one is HUGE! It's clearly meant to be seen as the bus drives down the freeway.

LA Metro posted a much better picture of this same bus on their Instagram page (albeit with the logo mostly cut off): http://instagram.com/p/gJhSWboPWZ/

Taking a ride on a similar bus earlier this year... I can say that the interiors are really nice with tray tables, WiFi, 2 club seating sections with 4 seats surrounding a table and power outlets under each seat. My only complaint is that they should take a hint from Greyhound and buy leather seats, remove the dreaded middle seat in the last row and remove a row to create extra legroom.

That being said, it's also really hit and miss with the Amtrak California motorcoaches. Some runs get these nice, new buses... but others get old, unbranded buses from the contractors (Horizon Coach Lines) fleet.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, Railiner told me the Van Hools like this C2045 already have extra legroom compared to Greyhound's MCIs even though they have 57 seats compared to 50. But yeah, their tiny engine compartment is probably why they keep breaking down. So I still hate Van Hools even though they have a great GPS.

I wish Greyhound would put in tray tables but I'm glad they don't have club seating, club seating has terrible legroom and they're BAD for long rides.


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## railiner (Nov 7, 2013)

The legroom on a Van Hool is only greater than the MCI and Prevost when they have the same number of rows of seats......

Agree that 'club seating' is only good for specialized services such as a charter run....


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## rickycourtney (Nov 7, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Well, Railiner told me the Van Hools like this C2045 already have extra legroom compared to Greyhound's MCIs even though they have 57 seats compared to 50. But yeah, their tiny engine compartment is probably why they keep breaking down. So I still hate Van Hools even though they have a great GPS.
> 
> I wish Greyhound would put in tray tables but I'm glad they don't have club seating, club seating has terrible legroom and they're BAD for long rides.


I know you hate the Van Hools... but frankly I don't think these new ones are bad at all. (But granted, I don't know nearly as much about motorcoaches as you.) I've never had one break down, or seen one on my many trips over the grapevine and the ride is reasonably comfortable (but not nearly as comfortable as the ride on the train!)

Honestly... the club seating is really nice and families love it. One table had parents and their two kids who played games on the table the whole time. The other table had several big guys and there seemed to be enough legroom between the seats that they didn't seem to be knocking knees.

The tray tables are a good idea... but poorly executed. They are at best good for holding an iPad... anymore weight than that... and the tray starts to collapse downwards. Also since they are attached to the seat back and not the seat frame... when the person in seat in front reclines... the tray table reclines with it.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 8, 2013)

I think Greyhound might like to introduce some airline-style seats with PTVs, that would be a real big hit to Megabus and other competitor, even most domestic flights have no PTVs. Electronics are so cheap these days that they could easily install them across the whole fleet. Plus, airliner seats have better tray tables.

If you've ridden a long bus ride, like over 350 miles, you would immediately revoke your liking of club seating. The reason being that if the bus is full or nearly full, your legs tangle with the guy across from you. Even worse, the club seats don't recline much and if you sit at the row right in front of the club seats, you can't recline either.

That middle seat in the last row is really bad in you get squished in on either side, but one time I got in line early to board a long-distance 102DL3 that had a low load of pax, so I took over the threesome of seats, turned up the armrests, and sprawled across it to make a 5-foot bed. I had some eye shades and oversized headphones made for earplugs. Slept great that night.


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## railiner (Nov 8, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> That middle seat in the last row is really bad in you get squished in on either side, but one time I got in line early to board a long-distance 102DL3 that had a low load of pax, so I took over the threesome of seats, turned up the armrests, and sprawled across it to make a 5-foot bed. I had some eye shades and oversized headphones made for earplugs. Slept great that night.


If you liked that, you would have liked the Scenicruiser even better...the last row had five across seating...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 8, 2013)

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > That middle seat in the last row is really bad in you get squished in on either side, but one time I got in line early to board a long-distance 102DL3 that had a low load of pax, so I took over the threesome of seats, turned up the armrests, and sprawled across it to make a 5-foot bed. I had some eye shades and oversized headphones made for earplugs. Slept great that night.
> ...


Yeah, didn't they have the restroom in the front lower section? Wow, 96-inch bed on a bus!

There's five-across seating on some D-series buses at the expense of the lavatory. You must be familiar with those commuter buses, there's loads of them in New York.

I perosnally think a transit bus with suburban seating is better than an intercity bus for those commuter routes.


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## railiner (Nov 8, 2013)

The D4505 and the X3 can seat 57 to 61 as a commuter bus. I don't think any transit bus can match that, when they are five feet shorter. So you probably won't see any more so-called 'suburban' type buses....at least not around here....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 8, 2013)

railiner said:


> The D4505 and the X3 can seat 57 to 61 as a commuter bus. I don't think any transit bus can match that, when they are five feet shorter. So you probably won't see any more so-called 'suburban' type buses....at least not around here....


Ah OK, I was just thinking how the coaches are much more expensive and very hard to manuever around the street, especially the D4500 which is known for a huge turning circle despite the sterrable tag axle. It's even worse for Greyhound, who locks their tag axles. I think those things turn worse than a MC-9!

Plus, coaches look harder to maintain but I'm not sure, I mean all the air bellows, turbochargers, etc.

What's the bus that can seat 61 pax without a restroom? Wouldn't a cheap, manueverable Van Hool be a great commuter bus, with capability to seat something 65 passengers if you squeeze the seats real hard? I'm not sure what the current seat pitch is on a standard Van Hool.


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## railiner (Nov 8, 2013)

The D4505 seats 57 without a restroom in its 'standard' seating. But just like we've discussed on the airline seating thread, there are thinner bus seats as well, designed for one to two hour commuter trips with minimal padding, limited or no reclining, that would allow squeezing one more row in fairly easily, with negligible difference in legroom....


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## rickycourtney (Nov 9, 2013)

Swadian-

I have great news for you man... I'm on an Amtrak California bus and it's a D4505!! Guess Horizon Coach Lines decided to buy some motorcoaches or Caltrans made them... either way it's about time! This is the first time I've ever been on a D4505. I'll have a complete trip report (with photos!) when I get home. Spoiler: this coach has club seating and a 3 seat back row.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 9, 2013)

Why don't you ride a Greyhound D4505 sometime? They're nice buses and the tickets are really cheap, sometimes you can get $10 SFD-LAD.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 10, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Why don't you ride a Greyhound D4505 sometime? They're nice buses and the tickets are really cheap, sometimes you can get $10 SFD-LAD.


Two reasons:* Creature comfort. The ride is much smoother on the train and it's easier to get up and walk around. Plus on the train I can get a California craft beer in the cafe car.

* More destinations. I usually take the train/bus combo from Fresno to visit my family in Santa Clarita. Amtrak has a stop in Santa Clarita which a 5 minute drive away from my parents house. Greyhound's nearest station is in the San Fernando valley (with no express service) which would be at least a 30 minute drive.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 10, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you ride a Greyhound D4505 sometime? They're nice buses and the tickets are really cheap, sometimes you can get $10 SFD-LAD.
> ...


Ah, whatever, you're a railfan anyway.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm a railfan but I'm also a fan of most forms of transportation.

In this case Amtrak is better suited to what I need. that being said... If Greyhound went where I needed to go... I'd be willing to try it.

Back to the Amtrak California Thruway motorcoaches... my biggest complaint was that most routes were operated with old beat up Van Hool coaches (not that I terribly care about the manufacturer). These new MCI D4505 and Van Hool C2045L coaches are a HUGE improvement.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 12, 2013)

So on Sunday I finally got a chance to see the new logo up close and not from inside a moving vehicle. I have to say... like it!




So I did a little digging and it turns out there are 22 new motorcoaches for the Bakersfield-Southern California bus routes. The 10 C2045L new Van Hool buses started to go into service in February. These new MCI buses went into service over the last few weeks.

Also interesting: it appears Horizon Coach Lines/Evergreen Trails is no longer operating the Amtrak California Thruway motorcoaches. All the coaches are now marked "Pacific Coast Sightseeing Tours & Charters, Inc. DBA Coach USA". Some of the new VanHool buses clearly had the lettering for Horizon Coach Lines quickly removed (you could still see the shadow on the bus.)

What makes this rather interesting... is that that Coach USA has made a big commitment to Van Hool on their Megabus routes... now they are operating MCI coaches on a route that (somewhat) competes with Megabus.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 12, 2013)

I also posted report from my trip on the D4505. You can read and comment here.


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## buddy559 (Dec 31, 2013)

This is the discussion about the new logo.


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## BCL (Dec 31, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Also interesting: it appears Horizon Coach Lines/Evergreen Trails is no longer operating the Amtrak California Thruway motorcoaches. All the coaches are now marked "Pacific Coast Sightseeing Tours & Charters, Inc. DBA Coach USA". Some of the new VanHool buses clearly had the lettering for Horizon Coach Lines quickly removed (you could still see the shadow on the bus.)
> 
> What makes this rather interesting... is that that Coach USA has made a big commitment to Van Hool on their Megabus routes... now they are operating MCI coaches on a route that (somewhat) competes with Megabus.


In Northern California it's contracted out to SFO Airporter, and that's clearly marked on the side of the buses. They also DBA using the "Compass Transportation" name. They're currently running a combination of VanHools ad MCIs. I remember riding an MCI with tray tables, although they seemed like my kid could destroy them if I wasn't careful.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 4, 2014)

I saw some Amtrak liveried coaches again but they didn't have "Amtrak" written on the side. This was in San Francisco. There were Van hool C2045's and MCI J4500's. Both buses that I don't really like. No D4505's.

I might have some pictures, hold on.....


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