# Why is Train 66 slower than other NE Regionals?



## TimePeace (Jul 21, 2012)

I see that the NE Regional #66 NYP-BOS takes 5 hr and 20 min, and all the other NE regionals between those stations are more than an hour less.

How come?


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## jis (Jul 21, 2012)

Because it does not want to sit in NYP for two hours instead of one hour, and it wants to have enough padding to account for overnight ROW maintenance work?


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2012)

Mostly because they don't want to arrive in Boston too early. Thus they travel slower. That's also the reason for the stop at NYP being 1 hour instead of the "normal" 20 minutes! If 66 ran at the regular speed, and the NYP stop was only 20 minutes, 66 would arrive into Boston like 4-5 AM!




I doubt many commuters or other passengers would like that! (The next Amtrak Regional arrives Into Boston about 11 AM.)

I clocked 66 doing 40-60 mph around Davisville, RI (1/2 way between KIN and PVD), where a normal Regional does 110-125 mph!


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## TimePeace (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.


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## Shanghai (Jul 21, 2012)

*I thought the #66 was slow because so many people boarded and detrained in Kingston, RI.*


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2012)

Shanghai said:


> 1342886167[/url]' post='381771']*I thought the #66 was slow because so many people boarded and detrained in Kingston, RI.*


That's why it goes so slow north of KIN. It can't pull the load!


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## pennyk (Jul 21, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I clocked 66 doing 40-60 mph around Davisville, RI (1/2 way between KIN and PVD), where a normal Regional does 110-125 mph!


I will be on 66 passing through Rhode Island early Monday morning. Will you be out there clocking my train as we chug through town?


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2012)

pennyk said:


> 1342889313[/url]' post='381788']
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> the_traveler said:
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With you on 66, it may take a *WRONG TURN *at NHV - and end up in Montreal!


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## AlanB (Jul 21, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > 1342889313[/url]' post='381788']
> ...


It won't even get close to Montreal. At best I'd give it maybe 1/4 of a mile past New Haven before the electric motor stalls out from lack of power.


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2012)

Last few times I was on 66/67, it ran with a P42!


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## amamba (Jul 21, 2012)

Penny say hi to my H on Monday on the 66 Although he might work from home on Monday bc he is still grumpy about our 30 hour EB delay and told me he can't stand the thought ofthe train just yet.

Also 66 often arrives in PVD 10-15 minutes early but it sits until departure time.


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## pennyk (Jul 21, 2012)

Will he be in BC? My sister and I will be in BC. We probably will be the only "look alike" sister duo on the train ( except I am an inch taller and a few pounds lighter :lol: ). If he is on the train, tell him to say hi to the "sister act."

I am on 92 right now and just had dinner. There is no dining car - instead they are using a cafe car as a diner light in addition to the normal diner. I had salmon and it was OK. No steak on menu, but braised beef instead.

Leo and Vic are the SCA's. Leo remembers Jim and Dave from their NTD trip and he says hi!!! :hi:


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## amamba (Jul 21, 2012)

Nope Penny he won't be in BC - no BC for the monthly pass! Enjoy your time in Boston.


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## pennyk (Jul 21, 2012)

amamba said:


> Nope Penny he won't be in BC - no BC for the monthly pass! Enjoy your time in Boston.


We will only be in Boston for a short time. We are headed to Portland, Maine. 

I am hoping it will be cooler there than it is in florida. Last week it wasn't.


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## GG-1 (Jul 21, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> Last few times I was on 66/67, it ran with a P42!


And your Penthouse? 

Aloha


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## NS (Jul 21, 2012)

66/67 are slower because there is a 110MPH speed limit because of the heritage baggage cars.


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## AlanB (Jul 21, 2012)

NS said:


> 66/67 are slower because there is a 110MPH speed limit because of the heritage baggage cars.


Even when the new Viewliner bags are in, it won't run any faster simply because they don't want it to get to Boston/DC any earlier than it currently does.

So they'll either continue running at 110, or just add more dwell time at stops along the way.


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## Shanghai (Jul 22, 2012)

pennyk said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > Nope Penny he won't be in BC - no BC for the monthly pass! Enjoy your time in Boston.
> ...


*Penny, are you currently riding on #66?*

*Have a good visit to Portland and I hope you have *

*some cool weather. Don't forget to wave to Dave*

*as you pass through Kingston!!*


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## pennyk (Jul 22, 2012)

Shanghai said:


> pennyk said:
> 
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> > amamba said:
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I am on 92 now and will board 66 this evening and arrive in BOS and POR Monday. Currently, I am in North Carolina looking out the window at very pretty scenery ( and typing on my tablet).


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 22, 2012)

The scheduling of passenger trains can be an exhaustive study. Much can go into it such as arrival and departure times at end points but also at major stops in between. And there are Such things as what market the train is trying to serve and to meet with connecting trains.

Train 66/67 is all about providing an overnight service, not a service for the busy harried business traveler who is competing with plane schedules who wants Acela

In fact this train is not just "any old any old" NE schedule. It has a history all its own. It has had several names in the past such as Twilight Shoreliner. Its old historical name was the Federal.

As the Federal it is best known for performing its little "lets smash Washington Union Station" act one morning in the early 50s. Yes, it lost break control and it slammed into the station which was mobbed with Eisenhower inauguration passengers.

During those days it was heavy with sleepers between various points. Under Amtrak it at one time had a set out sleeper from New York to Washington. It could be boarded in NYC about 10 pm and switched onto the train when it came through from Boston. Northbound the same things happened in reverse, the NYC sleeper was set out to the side and people in it could stay on board until about 8 am.

NE corridor railroading is kind of different from other parts of the country. There is still plenty of business in the Corridor.

Not so outside the corridor. Most of the LD trains today operate on a similar time of day schedule which Amtrak inherited from the railroads.

In the past there were many more local stops and many trains were bogged down carrying mail at each stop. What I am getting at is there were often huge, really huge, differences in LD train schedule from each other.

Now----brace yourself for this----some trains on routes like Chicago to Miami or Chicago to the west coast of the country could be as much as about 10 or 12 or 15 so hours, yes, hours, faster than others. Of course most people on the really slow trains were on them because they stopped where they lived and the other trains did not.And of course sometimes. especially between intermediate points, the slower train's schedule might happen to be more convenient.


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## pennyk (Jul 22, 2012)

Thanks Bill, as always, for your detailed historical perspective.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 22, 2012)

pennyk said:


> Thanks Bill, as always, for your detailed historical perspective.


And thank you Penny, Please note that I just added one extra sentence, it is the last sentence in the last paragraph.


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## RampWidget (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm going to speculate, other than schedule planning/train slotting, that it's a combination of two factors. 1) The already mentioned speed restriction on the NEC of Heritage car(s), and 2) the additional time it takes to work at those stations that 66/67 serve that handle checked bags, express, and (probably) company material.


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## the_traveler (Jul 22, 2012)

Not really checked baggage. The only stations served that offer checked baggage service are WAS, BAL, WiL, PHL (on 67 only), NWK, NYP, NHV (on 66 only) PVD and BOS. Only NHV and PVD do not have other trains with checked baggage service.


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## amamba (Jul 22, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> Not really checked baggage. The only stations served that offer checked baggage service are WAS, BAL, WiL, PHL (on 67 only), NWK, NYP, NHV (on 66 only) PVD and BOS. Only NHV and PVD do not have other trains with checked baggage service.


That sounds like checked baggage to me......and it does generally take them a few minutes at the bag car in PVD.


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## the_traveler (Jul 22, 2012)

amamba said:


> 1342984966[/url]' post='381968']
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> the_traveler said:
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What I am saying is that no other Regional or Acela thru PVD offers checked baggage service, and no LD train goes thru PVD. All the other stations have many others, except BOS which has one other and NHV which only does it for one train of of two!

And you yourself that 66 usually arrives into PVD early and must wait. So the baggage handling does not slow it down.

Plus that would have no impact on why 66 only goes under 50 mph near Davisville when other Regionals and Acels go well over 100 mph there!


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## AlanB (Jul 22, 2012)

RampWidget said:


> I'm going to speculate, other than schedule planning/train slotting, that it's a combination of two factors. 1) The already mentioned speed restriction on the NEC of Heritage car(s), and 2) the additional time it takes to work at those stations that 66/67 serve that handle checked bags, express, and (probably) company material.


Those are very minor considerations, at best.

The schedule for 66/67 is all about not getting to Boston/DC too early in the morning. Everything else is secondary. Even if they could run the train at 200MPH, had no baggage, or company materials they still would use the same schedule because it's all about getting to Boston/DC at a decent hour.


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## LookingGlassTie (Jun 30, 2017)

That's interesting about the 66 NER being slower than other Regionals, because based on the times between NPN and RVR, it would appear to travel about as fast as the others. It is about 1 1/2 hours between the two stations.

The 66 is the train that I'll be taking to RVR to connect with the Silver Meteor for my trip to Orlando.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jun 30, 2017)

LookingGlassTie said:


> That's interesting about the 66 NER being slower than other Regionals, because based on the times between NPN and RVR, it would appear to travel about as fast as the others. It is about 1 1/2 hours between the two stations.
> 
> The 66 is the train that I'll be taking to RVR to connect with the Silver Meteor for my trip to Orlando.


It is slow between Washington and Boston to allow for acceptable calling times for both cities. There is no reason for it to be slow in Virginia. It actually makes sense that it would be scheduled faster than the other trains in Virginia, because there is more padding up the line. When I rode 66 on the night of March 11th, we left Stamford 65 minutes late due to the time change, yet still arrived at South Station 12 minutes early.


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## LookingGlassTie (Jul 1, 2017)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> LookingGlassTie said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting about the 66 NER being slower than other Regionals, because based on the times between NPN and RVR, it would appear to travel about as fast as the others. It is about 1 1/2 hours between the two stations.
> ...


Gotcha


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## the_traveler (Jul 1, 2017)

If it didn't go slower between WAS & BOS, it would arrive at those stations at like 5 am!


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## Anderson (Jul 2, 2017)

LookingGlassTie said:


> That's interesting about the 66 NER being slower than other Regionals, because based on the times between NPN and RVR, it would appear to travel about as fast as the others. It is about 1 1/2 hours between the two stations.
> 
> The 66 is the train that I'll be taking to RVR to connect with the Silver Meteor for my trip to Orlando.


NPN-RVR tends to be somewhere in the 1:30-2:00 range (with around 0:25-0:30 of that RVM-RVR to account for possible conflicts around RVM). RVR-NPN can run a hair longer than the reverse due to end-of-route padding...but also bear in mind that (1) those trains can arrive early into NPN and (2) NPN-RVM has a _fast_ timetabled time (IIRC it's something like 75 miles in 72 minutes, with an intervening stop at WBG that can easily run 3-5 minutes if there's a heavy passenger load; though it only runs 2x daily, you will almost never beat Amtrak between NPN and WBG on the highway), though RVM-RVR makes up for it. I want to say that all of the NPN-WBG-RVM padding is dumped to RVR so the train doesn't get stuck at RVM.


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## Triley (Jul 2, 2017)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> LookingGlassTie said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting about the 66 NER being slower than other Regionals, because based on the times between NPN and RVR, it would appear to travel about as fast as the others. It is about 1 1/2 hours between the two stations.
> ...


My record was leaving Fredericksburg 1:55 late due to a supposed bomb scare a passenger called in on another (some lady's battery/phone case stated burning up). We left NYP less than 2 late, and were 5 minutes earlier in to New Haven.


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