# Amtrak First Timer on the Adirondack to Montreal



## FuadS (Mar 23, 2010)

I couldn't find a comprehensive list of tips for this train, so figured one list would be beneficial to myself and others in the future.

I am taking this round trip during Apr from NYP to MTL. Just wanted to get any suggestions from the pros.

Where should I sit? Left middle window seems to be the common theme.

Time to get there? Depart at 8:15...be there by 7:15?

Power ports. Might be on all seats...might be a couple in the whole box.

Wifi. nope

Refreshments. Single cart with expensive snacks

Dome viewing car. Maybe. Can we sit there the duration of the trip?

Pillows. Amtrak provides them. Are they the flimsy airline kind? bring my own?

I will be bringing my GPS. Might make the trip more interesting.

Entire train is coach seats only. Yes?


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## rrdude (Mar 23, 2010)

FuadS said:


> I couldn't find a comprehensive list of tips for this train, so figured one list would be beneficial to myself and others in the future.
> I am taking this round trip during Apr from NYP to MTL. Just wanted to get any suggestions from the pros.
> 
> Where should I sit? Left middle window seems to be the common theme.
> ...


YIKES! I'm taking that BACK from Montreal on the 22nd of April. No Lounge car, yuck.

I thought the dome only ran during the fall colors, hope I'm wrong on that.

I'd like to hear some "tips from the pros" too.


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## AlanB (Mar 23, 2010)

There is always a lounge car, an Amfleet I cafe car. No cart however, you must walk to the cafe car for service.

And the dome does indeed only run on this train during the fall leaf color change months.

No pillows are provided, it's not an overnight train.


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## Jean (Mar 23, 2010)

Hi, we (husband and I, Australians) took the Adirondack from Montreal to NYP last October (peak fall colours). Hope you do better than us, it was very disappointing, for the following reasons:

We had to use seats with no view of the outside world at all (maybe 5% vision). Be ready for this. Halfway down each car on both sides are two seats next to a blank wall, so that you cannot see out. The train was fully booked and we were too slow to realise we should sit separately if we didn't want to look at a blank wall for 12 hours.

There was no dome car at all, despite this being advertised.

As the train was packed, I had to queue for over an hour to obtain "food" and drink. This was no easy task on a moving train, there would be some who couldn't manage this. The conductor closed the cafe on several occasions, often for no obvious reason. It will be closed crossing the border, of course, that is understandable. I was lucky, but people 3 spots behind me, who had also queued for an hour were told "bad luck, go away". Anything decent in the way of food sold out immediately, anyway. I would suggest that you bring substantial food yourself, if it matters to you. I thought we would get more than a microwaved burger. At the least we should have been warned at the ticketing desk before leaving. The conductor and his young lady assistant spent the entire hour that I queued chatting happily in a seat in the "cafe" while the cafe assistant worked at 150%. He did a great job and passengers showed their appreciation by tipping. The other two completely ignored the situation, I'm not sure what they did to receive a wage, let alone a tip.

The left side of the train leaving Montreal has great views of lakes (one benefit of queuing for an hour, I saw something) and the right side river views coming into New York, although it could be dark then.

The bathrooms were not user friendly for most of the journey. It is apparently not in the job description of the on-board staff to do anything about this. How hard is it to gather up a plastic bag of paper towel and replace it with an empty one, so that passengers are not knee deep in used paper towel? I leave the smell to your imagination. There is a longer stop at a station about 2 hours outside NY, forget the name, where there is food and toilets available, most passengers queued there for either (or both, if they were really lucky).

Be aware there are no Amtrak ticketing machines in Montreal, you will need to go to the desk. There are some good food outlets there.

One hilarious note, when leaving the train at Penn Station, a lady from Florida, who said she had been to NYC several times, was quite alarmed at the thought of using an escalator. She asked me if I thought it would go up or down! As it seemed to me that we were about as far underground as anyone would want to go, I guessed it would probably go up. She started yelling at her husband about this.

On a happier note, we had further excellent trips on Amtrak to Boston, then to Portland on the Downeaster, so it wasn't all bad. Hope it goes well for you.


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## Jean (Mar 23, 2010)

Further to my previous post, in addition to no dome car, there was no lounge car, as suggested by AlanB, on our trip. Just 3 (maybe 4) coach cars with the cafe car roughly in the middle. The people occupying the seats/tables there pretty well stayed there for the duration. Not sure why anyone would suggest the "left middle seats" to you, unless you don't want to see out, they are the worst ones. It is the same on both sides.


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## the_traveler (Mar 23, 2010)

FuadS said:


> I am taking this round trip during Apr from NYP to MTL. Just wanted to get any suggestions from the pros.
> Where should I sit?


Going northbound, between NYP and ALB - the left side because it follows the shore of the Hudson River. (Southbound is the right side.)

Going northbound from Whitehall to Plattsburgh - the right side because it follows the shore of Lake Champlain. (Southbound is the left side.)

There is an hour between Albany and Whitehall.


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## transit54 (Mar 24, 2010)

I've taken the Adirondack a handful of times, once Montreal to Croton-on-Hudson, NY, and a few times between Port Kent, NY and various points south.

All in all, it's my favorite train in the northeast. While it doesn't offer much in the way of amenities (you do have a lounge car, but no dome 99% of the year, the seats are Amfleet I, etc), the scenery is just absolutely beautiful from Plattsburgh, NY until a bit before Whitehall, NY. You snake your way along the shores of Lake Champlain, giving you a stunning view of the lake and the Green Mountains (as long as the weather is clear). Sure, the dome car made it all the more impressive, but I've been on it several times without it and it was wonderful nonetheless.

In the summer, it does get crowded. I was once stuck on a completely sold out train in a car with a baby who screamed without pause for close to an hour and a half (finally, an unrelated older woman came over and quieted the baby down - the mother seemed disinterested in even trying to attempt this herself). I tried to find another seat somewhere on the train, but had absolutely no luck. For whatever reason (this was fairly early in my train riding career) it didn't occur to me to escape to the lounge car.

Perhaps its just the fact that anything other than the Vermonter is always an exciting change of scenery for me, but I really do enjoy the Adirondack. I highly recommend you give it a try. In my experience, you should have power outlets at every seat. And sit anywhere on the left side of the train for a southbound journey, and on the right for a northbound.


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## Rafi (Mar 24, 2010)

Jean said:


> Further to my previous post, in addition to no dome car, there was no lounge car, as suggested by AlanB, on our trip. Just 3 (maybe 4) coach cars with the cafe car roughly in the middle. The people occupying the seats/tables there pretty well stayed there for the duration. Not sure why anyone would suggest the "left middle seats" to you, unless you don't want to see out, they are the worst ones. It is the same on both sides.


Jean, just to clarify, the "lounge" and the "café" are one in the same, at least as far as this thread is concerned. Many folks refer to the cafe as the lounge car, in other words. As for the dome being advertised in October, it was only running on certain days of the week in certain directions (Amtrak has only 1 dome car in service today, so it can only run on one train at a time). Odds are you caught one of the trains without the dome; when you passed the other Adirondack going in the opposite direction, the dome most likely zoomed past you.

Rafi


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## FuadS (Mar 24, 2010)

Great responses guys!

I am planning on taking plenty of snacks.

I depart at 8:15...planning to be at the station by 7:15. From what i am reading, the entire train is just 4-5 cars? Which car should I aim for and where in the car should i sit? I plan on rushing on-board to ensure i have a plug-in. i tried looking online for what the train looks like and this is what i think it is

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/travelog...303A/153-17.jpg

Additionally, what are the chances for lengthy delays?


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## rrdude (Mar 24, 2010)

FuadS said:


> Great responses guys!
> I am planning on taking plenty of snacks.
> 
> I depart at 8:15...planning to be at the station by 7:15. From what i am reading, the entire train is just 4-5 cars? Which car should I aim for and where in the car should i sit? I plan on rushing on-board to ensure i have a plug-in. i tried looking online for what the train looks like and this is what i think it is
> ...


I'd go for the right hand side. And maybe move to the cafe car, and snag a table B4 the lake. Remember, if there are ppl sitting at a table, just SMILE, and sit right down with them.


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## the_traveler (Mar 24, 2010)

rrdude said:


> I'd go for the right hand side.


OP is leaving from NYP going northbound. For the 1st 2 hours or so, all that's on the right side most of the time is a dirt hill! The Hudson River is on the left side!


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## rrdude (Mar 24, 2010)

Doah! I'm going South, had South on the mind. Sorry, The_Traveler is correct. AGAIN.


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## Javier (Apr 17, 2011)

I will be travelling from Montreal to new York on April 21st. Does anybody knows if theres power outlets available in the train?


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## AlanB (Apr 17, 2011)

Javier said:


> I will be travelling from Montreal to new York on April 21st. Does anybody knows if theres power outlets available in the train?


The odds are very good that you'll have one right at your seat.


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## Anthony (Apr 17, 2011)

Tip: the last coach or two (on the end of the train) have more legroom since they're Amfleet II, not Amfleet I. If you're going all the way to Montreal, big difference. Generally, the number on the outside of the car (and on the doors to the car) will start with '25' instead of '8'.


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## pennyk (Apr 17, 2011)

Over 10 years ago, I took the Adirondack from NYP to Platsburg in early September. The train was not crowded at all and we were able to sit on the left when we were traveling along the Hudson River and then move to the right when were traveling right next to Lake Champlain. The scenery was magnificent.


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## rrdude (Apr 17, 2011)

Be prepared for some REALLY, REALLY, beautiful scenery. This route deserves a DOME car like almost no other.......


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2011)

Anthony said:


> Tip: the last coach or two (on the end of the train) have more legroom since they're Amfleet II, not Amfleet I. If you're going all the way to Montreal, big difference. Generally, the number on the outside of the car (and on the doors to the car) will start with '25' instead of '8'.


The crew will actually place anyone going to Montreal into the 2 Amfleet II cars for that reason. They'll direct everyone else to the other cars on the train. Most crews seem to enforce the rule of no non-Montreal bound passengers in the AMF II's, even if they aren't sold out with Canada bound travelers. And all passengers crossing the border must be in those two cars, Canadian customs will only allow those 2 cars to be occupied during the inspections; all other cars are empty (save for crew) as the train crosses the border.

Similar tactics are employeed on the Maple Leaf too, although there the Business Class section is also allowed to be occupied in addition to the 2 AMF II cars.


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## transit54 (Apr 18, 2011)

Alan, if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, does Amtrak not sell more two Amfleet IIs worth of tickets to Montreal on each train? I would think it would make sense for Amtrak to sell whatever seats are available once the Amfleet IIs are sold out.


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## the_traveler (Apr 18, 2011)

Jean said:


> There was no dome car at all, despite this being advertised.


There is only *ONE* dome car in Amtrak's rolling stock. It runs on the Adirondack northbound from Albany to Montreal *ONLY* on Thursday, Saturday and Monday. and Southbound *ONLY* on Friday, Sunday and Tuesday. The other days of the week in the opposite direction, and on Wednesday in either direction, there is no dome car at all on the train. (BTW - It states this in the schedule.)

Last year, I traveled north on Monday and south on Tuesday - and had the dome both ways. BTW - there is no power outlets in the dome.

Maybe you just traveled on the day in the direction it did not operate.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2011)

transit54 said:


> Alan, if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, does Amtrak not sell more two Amfleet IIs worth of tickets to Montreal on each train? I would think it would make sense for Amtrak to sell whatever seats are available once the Amfleet IIs are sold out.


The Amfleet II cars can carry 59 passengers, which means that Amtrak only puts 118 seats into inventory for points north of the border. Once those 118 seats are sold, the train will show sold out to Montreal or St. Lambert. Amtrak cannot sell seats in the Amfleet I cars to either stop north of the border.

This isn't an Amtrak decision; Canadian Customs won't allow more than 2 cars to be occupied. Even on days in the fall when the dome car is added to the consist, passengers must leave the dome at the last US stop to be in one of the two AMF II cars for customs.

All of the above would change if the Adirondack were redirected to Lucien-L'Allier instead of the current terminous at Central Station. If this reroute goes through, the Adirondack would then operate much like the Cascades service to Vancouver, with no intermediate stops within Canada and customs would happen after you step off the train in Montreal. At that point Amtrak would be able to sell as many seats as it could to passengers going to/from Montreal.

Of course given the current shortage of AMF II cars, that could make for a very long day in an AMF I seat if you're not lucky enough to get into the AMF II cars.


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## Jacques Slyton (Feb 14, 2013)

the latest comments are 2011. any improvements since then? We're hoping to travel via Adirondack June & July 2013


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## Meat Puppet (Feb 15, 2013)

I thought the cafe crew was great. Wear as little clothing as possible as this will make the northbound full strip search at the boarder go much quicker for everyone on board.


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## Shanghai (Feb 15, 2013)

Are the Customs procedures different on the Adirondack and Maple Leaf?

When boarding in Canada, do you actually board an Amtrak train?

Are the boarding procedures disorganized in Montreal and do the

Business Class passengers board separately from coach in Toronto?


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## jis (Feb 15, 2013)

Jacques Slyton said:


> the latest comments are 2011. any improvements since then? We're hoping to travel via Adirondack June & July 2013


No changes since then.

Border checks in both directions are on the train (unlike on the Maple Leaf where at least northbound you have to get off the train at Niagara Falls ON for border inspection). Northbound the inspection is at Lacolle near the raod checkpoint, where CBSA agents come on board the train and do the inspection. It is mostly ask a few questions, look at Passport and be on your way. Similarly southbound US CBP does the inspection at Rouses Point, again on board the train. I have never heard of anyone being strip searched at those border inspections.

Boarding in Montreal is pretty organized. The boarding line is usually quite long, and it is a good idea to get to the station a good one hour before departure to grab a position near the front of the line.

BTW, Canada and US are working on moving the border inspection for the Adirondack to the Montreal Central station, but it is not likely to come to pass until late 2014 at the earliest. When that happens the St. Lambert stop outside Montreal will be discontinued, and the Adirondack will run clsed door between montreal Central and Rouses Point.


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## VentureForth (Feb 15, 2013)

I am suprised that they tried the CCC experiment to replace diners on overnight trains rather than try to UPGRADE current underwhelming services that are on long distance day trains with a CCC like the Adirondack and the Palmetto.

Were the only CCCs Superliners?



AlanB said:


> All of the above would change if the Adirondack were redirected to Lucien-L'Allier instead of the current terminous at Central Station. If this reroute goes through, the Adirondack would then operate much like the Cascades service to Vancouver, with no intermediate stops within Canada and customs would happen after you step off the train in Montreal. At that point Amtrak would be able to sell as many seats as it could to passengers going to/from Montreal.


Why would Lucien-L'Allier be a better station for Customs? I would imagine that Central Station would have better resources for that. A better centralized location for AMT & Metro (though I think both stop at Lucien-L'Allier)...


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## jis (Feb 15, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > All of the above would change if the Adirondack were redirected to Lucien-L'Allier instead of the current terminous at Central Station. If this reroute goes through, the Adirondack would then operate much like the Cascades service to Vancouver, with no intermediate stops within Canada and customs would happen after you step off the train in Montreal. At that point Amtrak would be able to sell as many seats as it could to passengers going to/from Montreal.
> ...


That bit about Lucien L'Allier is old 2011 news. Indeed that was being considered back then. Since then that proposal has been dropped and property has been set aside within Montreal Central to construct the C&I facility. The whole project is now awaiting modification of the Treaty governing operation of CBP within Canada specifically at Montreal Central Station. There is some expectation such modification will be achieved sometime this year or early next, which will then trigger the construction of the facility and move of the C&I to Montreal Central.


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## Ashland Train Enthusiast (Feb 15, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> I am suprised that they tried the CCC experiment to replace diners on overnight trains rather than try to UPGRADE current underwhelming services that are on long distance day trains with a CCC like the Adirondack and the Palmetto.
> Were the only CCCs Superliners?


Yes, the CCCs were all Superliners, so couldn't be used on any of the single level equipment in the east.

I agree that the eastern medium-distance trains like the Adirondack, Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, and Carolinian need a more intermediate option for dining service; I have heard that once the new Viewliner Diners come onboard that they may look at taking the Diner-Lite concept from the Cardinal, and applying that to these trains, to maybe serve a more intermediate hot menu that's not the nuked pizza or hamburgers (it is still pre-packaged food heated in a convection oven, but imho that open-air dry heating is a huge improvement over a microwaved meal).

~ DCTE


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## zephyr17 (Feb 15, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> I am suprised that they tried the CCC experiment to replace diners on overnight trains rather than try to UPGRADE current underwhelming services that are on long distance day trains with a CCC like the Adirondack and the Palmetto.
> Were the only CCCs Superliners?


Yes, and the modification was they took a full Superliner diner and completely revised the upstairs seating area, and added a lounge service counter up there, while they left the downstairs galley completely intact. So the CCCs still had all their food preparation capability unchanged. This is why the CCCs in service can and do offer a full menu.

It would be hard to do with their single level diners, as they'd have to leave the 1/3rd of the car that is the galley alone, and then carve lounge space out of the remaining 2/3rds. Especially since they don't have a lot of them. Maybe if they had looked at SP's design for the Sunset Limited's Pride of Texas Coffee Shop/Lounges and configured some of the new Viewliner order into something similar they'd have had something.

BTW, I had a sit down dinner in the Cardinal's dinette back in December and I was decidedly underwhelmed. It was some of worst food I've had on Amtrak and service was excruciatingly slow. It wasn't the staff's fault, they were overwhelmed trying to run the counter service and serve dinner at the same time.


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## smiling at the rain (Jun 23, 2013)

Hi we are travelling from Montreal to New York mid to late August as a family of 4. This is likely a trip that we will only ever do once (we are from the west coast) just want to ensure we make the most of it. going south bound into the U.S. is it best to sit on the left or right side of the train & is one section of the train better than others? is there anyway to ensure that we get great seats......i know that we have to show up 1 hour as per the agent...but if we queue up earlier would that help?


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## zephyr17 (Jun 23, 2013)

Lake Champlain will be on the left southbound. The Hudson will be on right. Both offer good views, but the Adirondack's claim to fame is Lake Champlain.

As to what to do in Montreal, I don't know the routine there. However, as a general rule, the closer you are to the head of the line, the better the seat selection.

As noted above, you'll be in one of two Amtfleet II coaches. Not a big deal which one.


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## AlanB (Jun 23, 2013)

zephyr17 said:


> As noted above, you'll be in one of two Amtfleet II coaches. Not a big deal which one.


I would not bet on that! US Customs requires all passengers to be together when the train crosses the border. So if there are more people than will fit in the 2 AMF II cars, then everyone goes to the AMF I cars. Which is really pitiful that the short haul passengers get the better long distance cars.


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## pennyk (Jun 23, 2013)

When I traveled on the Adirondack in 2012, I was in an AMF I northbound and AMF II southbound. I used a Redcap (or whatever Via calls them) in Montreal and was able to board early and choose my seat, however, not all Redcaps boarded their passengers early. I think I got lucky. I sat on the left hand side from Montreal to NYP.

If I remember correctly, the AMF I cars had wi-fi (south of the border) whereas the more comfortable AMF II cars did not.


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## afigg (Jun 23, 2013)

jis said:


> BTW, Canada and US are working on moving the border inspection for the Adirondack to the Montreal Central station, but it is not likely to come to pass until late 2014 at the earliest. When that happens the St. Lambert stop outside Montreal will be discontinued, and the Adirondack will run clsed door between montreal Central and Rouses Point.


I did a search and found that viewgraph presentations from the April, 2013 meeting of the Transportation Border Working Group have been posted on their website. The presentation of interest here is the Cross Border Rail Passenger Service Progress Report (~6 MB powerpoint file, rather slow download when I tried it). There are floorplans and photos of the proposed customs facility location at Central Station and a photo of the current rather basic facility at Lacolle, QC. There are also 2 other viewgraph presentations on passenger rail: NY State on Empire corridor plans, Cascades corridor.

Interesting bullet items in the slides:

Potential Future International Services

Northeast Corridor – Vermont – Montreal

Chicago – Michigan – Ontario - Quebec

Under Montreal:

Progress to date


Amtrak Engineering developed a conceptual facility plan
CBSA and USCBP concurred in the concept subject to further review as the project advances
Quebec, New York and Vermont agreed to share the cost of a Canadian architect’s review
Agence metropolitaine de transport (AMT), on behalf of Amtrak, retained the architect
Architect has presented their preliminary report, in summary, stating there are no show-stoppers but more expensive than originally estimated
Business case for Montreal preclearance being developed by the partners for presentation to Deputy Secretary Bersin of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security
MTQ ongoing tracks study from Montreal to US Border (state of CN and CP tracks and cost to increase speed up to 100 mph) – report expected in July 2013
On the slide titled Requirements for Preclearance


A preclearance treaty ratified by both Canada and the United States providing for USCBP officers to work in designated rail stations in Canada
Funding required to lease necessary space from Canadian National and other owners of the Central Station properties
Capital funding to construct the facility on the track level plus vertical access to the concourse level
Rescheduling of trains for connections due to faster trip times
“Sterile” closed-door non-stop train operations in Canada
Staff and other financial resources for USCBP and CBSA to operate the facility
And, for the “Vermonter”, an additional pair of slots over Canadian National from the border to Central Station
One potential holdup in the treaty process is the US Senate, given how many appointments and even pro forma treaty approvals have been stalled in the Senate. 2015 for a Customs facility in MTR, perhaps?


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## zephyr17 (Jun 23, 2013)

If there isn't a treaty how are doing pre-clearance in Vancouver, which they've had ever since the Cascades started. Must have to do with the stop in Blaine, WA where the collect the customs cards and sometimes check bags.


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## AlanB (Jun 23, 2013)

zephyr17 said:


> If there isn't a treaty how are doing pre-clearance in Vancouver, which they've had ever since the Cascades started. Must have to do with the stop in Blaine, WA where the collect the customs cards and sometimes check bags.


There is a treaty for the airports and the Cascades. It needs to be ammended, or a new one needs to be enacted, that now includes the Montreal train station.


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## R30A (Jun 24, 2013)

Historically they were limitations on where they would allow you to sit crossing the border on the Adirondack. Lately this has not been the case. The last 5 times I took the train across the border, nearly the whole train has been open to the public.(and they had to be, as many more than two cars worth of people have been aboard the train. The one time that there was a closed car was due to a large group boarding in Plattsburgh)


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## gordonlee (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm on train #69 The Adirondack right now! I'm in car #25066 (so I guess that's a good one!). We're running about an hour late, stuck outside of Ticonderoga while we wait for track work to be done. I must say that so far the internet has been good (I got on at Albany). We're running about 25% of the car I am in as being occupied (if that, maybe even less). Will "report back" later on how the customs process goes.


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## gordonlee (Aug 20, 2013)

Follow up to my post yesterday. We did get into to Montreal about 45 minutes late. Here's my summary:

Scenery of Lake Champlain is spectacular

Coach car was nice, clean

Customs was a breeze - they came on the train and asked "Where are you going, how long will you be in Canada?" and that's it. Took all of 30 seconds.

BUT... the train still was stopped at customs for over an hour.

I would have to say that I'm glad that I did this - once. I'm seriously considering cancelling my return on the Adirondack Montreal-Albany and taking Greyhound instead. The reasons being:

1) Our train coming up had literally 2 dozen passengers by the time we got to the border and it STILL took over an hour. If the train back has more passengers, I could easily see being stuck at the border for 2 or 3 hours.

2) This train must average the slowest speeds of any Amtrak train (and I've been on more than a few). Most of the trip must have been at 40mph or less. It's excruciatingly slow and by the time we were lumbering along between the Canadian Customs stop and Montreal I and several other passengers were getting a bit of cabin fever and wanting off!

So, that's my "review" of the Adirondack.


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## jis (Aug 20, 2013)

I learned at the ESPA meeting that the Treaty process has suffered a setback both in the US and in Canada, for reasons that have nothing to do with the usual suspects, but something else that has come out of the left field in the rocky relationship between the close neighbors.

Apparently the process will now have to restart from step 1, and will take at least 12 to 18 months if all goes well. In spite of the rancor on Capitol hill this is not expected to be a victim to that since the Treaty covers broad territory that is of commercial interest to a lot of folks, and includes freight related issues too. So it is not something that is likely to get held up by anti-Amtrak partisans, since the Amtrak part is a small part of the whole thing and costs almost nothing to the US.

On the good side, Quebec appears to be getting quite serious about funding work on upgrading the CN line from Rouses Point to Montreal to a respectable 70mph.


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## afigg (Aug 21, 2013)

jis said:


> I learned at the ESPA meeting that the Treaty process has suffered a setback both in the US and in Canada, for reasons that have nothing to do with the usual suspects, but something else that has come out of the left field in the rocky relationship between the close neighbors.
> Apparently the process will now have to restart from step 1, and will take at least 12 to 18 months if all goes well. In spite of the rancor on Capitol hill this is not expected to be a victim to that since the Treaty covers broad territory that is of commercial interest to a lot of folks, and includes freight related issues too. So it is not something that is likely to get held up by anti-Amtrak partisans, since the Amtrak part is a small part of the whole thing and costs almost nothing to the US.
> 
> On the good side, Quebec appears to be getting quite serious about funding work on upgrading the CN line from Rouses Point to Montreal to a respectable 70mph.


So if it takes another 12 to 18 months to complete all the agreements and revise the treaty, then add time for ratification, award contracts and build the custom facility in Montreal, reassign and relocate US customs inspectors to MTR, it could be 2016 or later before the Customs facility opens. the wheels of bureaucracy can grind slowly on international matters..

If Quebec is serious about funding upgrades on the CN line, perhaps much of the track work can be done by the time the customs facility opens in MTR. By 2016, most of the track & signal upgrades from Poughkeepsie to Schenectady should be wrapping up. The Adirondack could see a series of significant trip time reductions in a fairly short time span if the customs facility and track improvements coincide.


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## gordonlee (Aug 22, 2013)

afigg said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > I learned at the ESPA meeting that the Treaty process has suffered a setback both in the US and in Canada, for reasons that have nothing to do with the usual suspects, but something else that has come out of the left field in the rocky relationship between the close neighbors.
> ...


The two areas that were tortuous in terms of slow speeds were from Fort Ticonderoga north to Plattsburgh, and then from Canadian Customs into Montreal. I could see the Canadian portion being able to accomodate faster speeds as a lot of the time we were headed straight and running through corn fields. But the Fort Ticonderoga to Plattsburgh portion, I don't know. It's a very winding route up there. Not sure you can run much faster at all on that stretch.


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## OBS (Aug 23, 2013)

gordonlee said:


> Follow up to my post yesterday. We did get into to Montreal about 45 minutes late. Here's my summary:
> Scenery of Lake Champlain is spectacular
> 
> Coach car was nice, clean
> ...


FWIW, don't assume the bus will be any quicker at the border. I traveled back from MTR to Burlington a few weeks ago by bus. It had about 20 people on the bus and we were at the border 1.5 hours. Talking to the driver while we waited, and asked how often bus is on time into Burlington (based on Greyhound time alloted for border), He said "never".


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## jis (Aug 23, 2013)

It just takes one passenger with an issue for the train to get held up forever, and most passengers would not even know what was going on anyway. Heck even the passenger at issue may not know for a while too, while the CBSA or CBP goes off investigating through their records.


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## gordonlee (Aug 26, 2013)

Well OK, I'll take The Adirondack back next week!


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## gordonlee (Sep 1, 2013)

Getting ready to head over to Montreal station to hop on the Adirondack back to Albany. Yesterday the trip to Albany took 11 hours (over 3 hours delayed). I hope we don't have such bad luck today.


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## gordonlee (Sep 1, 2013)

And my report:

Left Montreal about 5 minutes late. Train was "sold out" according to the conductor (though I did spot a few open seats). U.S. Customs and Immigration stop was only for about an hour - great news!

But... we had to hold somewhere before Fort Ticonderoga for the northbound Adirondack which set us back about an hour, and then had to wait for a freight around Glens Falls for another 20 minutes or so. Ended up arriving in Albany about 1 hour 30 minutes behind schedule.

And I have to repeat, this has got to be the slowest train in the Amtrak system. I don't think we got above 50 mph once during the entire trip!


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## jis (Sep 1, 2013)

You probably did get considerably above 50mph south of Schenectady.


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## mignyc (Sep 2, 2013)

Upon someone on this board's recommendation, I'm considering taking this train this fall for a leaf tour.

I'm not interested in the long wait at the border, but rather seeing the lake scenery - so I wonder if it would be a good idea to get off the train at the stop before the border, spend the night, then return the following day?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 2, 2013)

mignyc said:


> Upon someone on this board's recommendation, I'm considering taking this train this fall for a leaf tour.
> I'm not interested in the long wait at the border, but rather seeing the lake scenery - so I wonder if it would be a good idea to get off the train at the stop before the border, spend the night, then return the following day?


:hi: Excellent idea, lots of our Members have done this when the Ocean View Dome Car is on the Adirondack during Leaf Peeper Season! Im not familiar with the Cities on this Route (Port Kent,NY is where the Seasional Ferry to Vt. operates and Plattsburgh,NY is also a possibly!) but know that some of our Members can give you good Tips on where to Stay, Eat etc. Since Im not familiar with the Ferry Schedule I can't say for sure but during the Summer people ride to Port Kent, take the Ferry across the Lake, spend some time in Vt. and ride the Vermonter back to New York City or wherever! :help:


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## FreeskierInVT (Sep 2, 2013)

Your best bet would probably be taking the Lake Champlain Ferry out of Port Kent. The ferry between Burlington and Port Kent operates daily through September 29th, after which Amtrak will no longer stop at the station until next May. Starting today the ferry leaves Port Kent at 3pm and 5:30pm, so if the northbound Adirondack is on time (and the likelihood of that is very slim) you could catch the 3pm ferry, alternately you'd have to wait until the 5:30pm ferry which is the last one of the day. Foliage tends to be near peak or peak the last weekend of September in northern Vermont and New York. If you do take the ferry, you would get on the southbound Vermonter in Essex Junction the next morning, about 20 minutes from downtown Burlington and accessible by bus. There are a few hotels within walking distance from the ferry dock in downtown, but not much closer to the train station is Essex Junction. There is also an abundance of great restaurants in downtown Burlington, especially on Church Street, a pedestrian marketplace with a bunch of local shops, restaurants and even a shopping mall.

There is also a ferry out of Plattsburgh that runs year round, however you would not have an easy time getting to an Amtrak stop in Vermont. That ferry runs to Grand Isle, VT, where you'd have to take a cab (if there even is one in that area) to Burlington or St. Albans.


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## James Patten (Sep 2, 2013)

My wife and I took this trip back in June. My observations:

At the border going in either direction, neither of us had problems. I noticed that essentially the customs agents do a first time sweep of all the passengers. Sometimes somebody is asked to bring all of their luggage to the lounge car. Usually this happens the first time through but the agents did come back at least once to ask somebody else to bring their luggage to the lounge. I'm sure some of them get picked at random. The biggest difference between 2013 and my last trip in July 2001 was no dogs were brought through the car sniffing out drugs.

In Montreal, we arrived and went up the escalators and had to find our way out. Of course station personnel were around to guide people. However Central Station is a part of the greater Underground City, so there's lots of people passing through who have no train business.

On the way home, we arrived at Central Station and got in line. A porter came up and down the line asking if anyone was interested in having their luggage taken for them. I wasn't going to do it until I heard him say "the escalator is out of order". We had large suitcases, so I opted for the porter. He took our luggage and us and we found a seat on the train, several minutes before the rest of the crowd were let through.


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