# Zephyr in Winter



## tommylicious (Nov 14, 2017)

We're considering a Zephyr trip in January. How is this route in winter (scenery, consist, delays)? Is the Chief a better trip this time of year? Thank you.

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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 14, 2017)

I am making my first trip on the route in December, but based on the videos I have seen the scenery appears better in winter than any other season. All of the same types of cars are present although the length and order varies. Unfortunately, I believe that delays are somewhat more likely in the winter.

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## greatcats (Nov 14, 2017)

Both routes are worthwhile, but most give the scenery edge to the CZ. The main drawback is the shorter daylight hours. I live along the SWC and of the firm opinion that route has its own charms.


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## the_traveler (Nov 14, 2017)

That is also what I have heard. I plan to check it out this winter.

With my luck, when I go it will either be sunny and 80’s, no snow or raining!


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## Rail Freak (Nov 14, 2017)

My CZ winter trip was in February. What a beautiful trip!!! The snowy scenes thru the Rockies were fantastic & then the snow in the Sierra Nevadas was breathtaking!!! Planning on another winter trip in 2019 (PDX-DEN)!


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 14, 2017)

the_traveler said:


> That is also what I have heard. I plan to check it out this winter.
> 
> With my luck, when I go it will either be sunny and 80’s, no snow or raining!


Snow is guaranteed during mid-winter in the area around Moffat Tunnel as well as Donner Pass. In addition, it is highly likely in the most of Western Colorado. It is at least somewhat possible everywhere except west of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. However, snow is somewhat unlikely in much of the desert regions . Utah and from Denver east has about a 50% chance of at least an inch of snow on the ground.
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## pennyk (Nov 14, 2017)

My CZ "winter" trip was mid December and the scenery was fabulous. There were no "mooners" on the Colorado River, however, there was one lone mooner in a parking lot after leaving the Moffatt Tunnel.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 14, 2017)

For the last few years I have traveled on the California Zephyr in Winter and Spring seasons and the Winter trip is "fantastic". Rather than take my word for it, check out the photos I took on my JANUARY 2017 ZEPHYR TRIP. I will be taking the Zephyr in December and February this Winter. A word of caution when making sleeper reservation. For some reason Amtrak has cut the Zephyr to "just one sleeper" in December cancelling the x32 sleeper in which I had reserved roomette and moved me to roomette in Sleeper x31 for both my west bound and east bound trips. Why this is a mystery is that now almost all December trips are close to sell out with only a couple roomettes available in transition sleeper x40. In fact the December 26 westbound trip is SOLD OUT entirely in coach and sleeper. For now the indication from Amsnag is that they will still have two sleepers in January but I would caution anyone booking now to only book a room in Car x31. My February and later April trips are booked in Sleeper x31. FYI, different from other Amtrak routes, the Zephyr does not have an x30 sleeper.


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## KmH (Nov 14, 2017)

If mid to late January the sleepers on the CZ may be towards the front of the winter consist, rather than at the end of the consist.

Loco, loco, baggage, transdorm (0540/0640), sleeper, sleeper, dining car, observation car, coach, coach, (coach as needed).

The just before and after the winter consist is shortened to just 2 coach and 2 (maybe 1) sleeper cars.

The rest of the year its loco, loco, baggage, transdorm, coach, coach, coach, observation car, dining car, sleeper (0531/0631, sleeper (0532/0632), sleeper (0530/0630), (sleeper as needed).

A some


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## crescent-zephyr (Nov 14, 2017)

the zephyr is my favorite Long Distance train when it comes to scenery (I've ridden the Starloght, Builder, Canadian, Chief, etc.) and any season is great.

The Starlight and Empire Builder also offer great winter scenery.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 14, 2017)

A late January trip on the Zephyr for me followed by a Coast Starlight trip to Seattle. Then, an early February trip on Empire Builder to Chicago. The Winter scenery was simply beautiful and a true standout in my memory.


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## BuffaloBoy (Nov 14, 2017)

The winter trips on the CZ are the best rides I have ever experienced! Sometimes on-time, sometimes extremely late, scenic views and wildlife abundant. It's all good if you are not in a hurry. My last trip was a great adventure (way late, a free hotel stay in Chicago) and a great crew. Would do it over and over again. One of these days I would like to ride the Chief just to see what it's all about but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


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## KmH (Nov 14, 2017)

The photo above (post #10) is Byers Canyon just west of Hot Sulphur Springs.

I rode the Southwest Chief for the first time this last May.

I boarded at Galesburg (GBB) on Amtrak's anniversary - May 1.

I really liked day 2, scenery wise.

I was hoping the train would be 2 or 3 hours late by the time we got to Cajon Pass. Unfortunately, the train was on time so it was dark when we went over the pass.

My next CZ trip is booked for the first week of spring - late March.

There should still be lots of snow in the Rockies, and hopefully the Sierras will get a lot of snow this coming winter too.


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## niemi24s (Nov 14, 2017)

Sometimes a little dusting of late Spring (April 27th) snow, finding a clean spot on a CZ window and some work with FastStone gives a photo a bit more contrast and color saturation even under an overcast sky:


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## Lonestar648 (Nov 15, 2017)

CZ in the Winter is beautiful, As mentioned before, the daylight hours are shorter this time of the year, but don't let that discourage you. It will be easier to get a seat in the SSL to take in the beauty in Colorado and California. Overcast or sunny, the scenes are great. Have a your camera with you all the time, even in the DC.


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## niemi24s (Nov 15, 2017)

The big enemy of good photography through a window on the CZ is a combination of rain, snow, diesel exhaust particles and tunnels (there are 40+ of them West of Denver). Your only chance of insuring a clean window to shoot through is to clean it yourself - and that can only be done to the exterior of lower level coach or sleeper windows and the window on the entry doors at stops when you are allowed to detrain. In addition, sunny days make for reflections off dirty windows and reflections from interior objects which detract from the captured image.

Taking_ good_ pix from a train isn't easy.


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## KmH (Nov 15, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> Sometimes a little dusting of late Spring (April 27th) snow, finding a clean spot on a CZ window and some work with FastStone gives a photo a bit more contrast and color saturation even under an overcast sky:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice composition.

Can I edit your photo some and post it?


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## niemi24s (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanx for the compliment, but it's already been cropped, sharpened, and had the saturation and contrast increased a bit. While it's not _astoundingly_ better than the original, it's as good as I know how to get it. The original is on the left, the right is after my fiddling:




The casual observer may not see much difference, but I can. The only noticeable flaw is what appears to be internal room reflections on the tree trunks down by the river bank on the right hand side of the images. Not smart enough to get rid of those. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.


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## Ronbo (Nov 15, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> The big enemy of good photography through a window on the CZ is a combination of rain, snow, diesel exhaust particles and tunnels (there are 40+ of them West of Denver). Your only chance of insuring a clean window to shoot through is to clean it yourself - and that can only be done to the exterior of lower level coach or sleeper windows and the window on the entry doors at stops when you are allowed to detrain. In addition, sunny days make for reflections off dirty windows and reflections from interior objects which detract from the captured image.
> 
> Taking_ good_ pix from a train isn't easy.


I bet you have made a chart of all the possible situations! Just kidding! Always enjoy viewing the various charts that you make the old school way, ink on paper, handmade!


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## niemi24s (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanx for the kind word. There's no doubt easier and quicker methods, but I'm a virtual Neanderthal when it comes to those sorts of things. But I've a good supply of graph paper, pens and pencils.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 15, 2017)

After several calls to AGR and Amtrak Customer Relations, this unhappy Amtrak passenger has cancelled my December trips on the California Zephyr for a full e-voucher and points return without penalty. I tried to reschedule to January dates with plenty of availability but they could(or would) not assign me to a satisfactory roomette assignment in roomettes 2-6 in car 531.


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## crescent-zephyr (Nov 15, 2017)

What's a satisfactory Roomette vs. an unsatisfactory Roomette?

Another plus about the Zephyr in winter... Lots of space in the sightseer lounge!


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 15, 2017)

crescent-zephyr said:


> What's a satisfactory Roomette vs. an unsatisfactory Roomette?
> 
> Another plus about the Zephyr in winter... Lots of space in the sightseer lounge!


Some don’t like 9-10 due to the noise from the vestibule door. I found 7, my first time in any 7-10 roomettes, to be a rougher ride than I’ve had in 2-6 roomettes. So that may be another reason people avoid 7-10.

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## chakk (Nov 15, 2017)

Superliner roomettes 7-10 are over the wheels and near an end door of the car.

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## the_traveler (Nov 15, 2017)

I have had rooms 9 & 10 many times, and if you do not have your door open (like at night when you are sleeping), I have no heard any more noise.


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## snvboy (Nov 15, 2017)

Here's another photoblog of the California Zephyr in the wintertime

https://snvboy.exposure.co/america-coast-to-coast


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 15, 2017)

crescent-zephyr said:


> What's a satisfactory Roomette vs. an unsatisfactory Roomette?
> 
> Another plus about the Zephyr in winter... Lots of space in the sightseer lounge!


Satisfactory location? As others have said 7-10 are at the end of car and noisy for various reasons. You can't sleep in the sightseer lounge and I fully expect to spend two nights sleeping when I ride the Zephyr. As for the SSL, that is not my cup of tea and not near as comfortable as the sofa's in the roomettes. The transition sleeper might have been acceptable but I was assigned roomette 18 once again over the trucks at the end of car next to door to rest of train and the toliet. So, it's personal, but for a regular rider who has to fly from Nashville to ride the train being switched to any of those from roomette 003 which I reserved and paid for in September was just not satisfactory when I already have future trips booked in February and April in Roomette 003 in Car 531 to avoid the unpleasantness of Amtrak's sudden and surprised bump just 3 weeks before departure.


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## neroden (Nov 16, 2017)

tommylicious said:


> We're considering a Zephyr trip in January. How is this route in winter (scenery, consist, delays)? Is the Chief a better trip this time of year? Thank you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Amtrak Forum mobile app


The mountain scenery is impressive. Go through the Donner Pass in the season when the Donner Party starved!

Honestly my favorite scenery is Gary, Indiana, so I can't really give much scenery advice.


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## Lonestar648 (Nov 16, 2017)

I prefer 3-6, but will take 2-10 over lower level. The door opening/closing frequency lessens as fewer people move around the train, so many times I have rarely heard the door. Some prefer 2 to be closer to the bathroom and the SCA. Two trips the door in the coffee center was opened and closed so much it was a major distraction. We have actually taken some better photos from our room than in the SSL. When the sun is straight over head, peering over the canyon walls, reflection is difficult to avoid.


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## Wolverine72 (Nov 16, 2017)

/monthly_09_2016/post-12899-0-91647700-1474328256.jpg

Shot from the the Zephyr Christmas 2013 approaching Glenwood Springs.

Yes, you are not going to get professional shots through the windows with the glare inside and dirt and ice outside. of glass.

This photo and more are in a thread from Sept 2013 called "Winter Travel".


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## StanJazz (Nov 16, 2017)

You can get good shots through a window if you use a rubber lens hood and shoot straight out with the rubber hood touching the glass. Here are 2 shots taken seconds apart from the Zephyr. One right up to the glass and one a short distance from the glass. You can see reflections on the 2nd but not the 1st.


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## Lonestar648 (Nov 16, 2017)

StanJazz said:


> You can get good shots through a window if you use a rubber lens hood and shoot straight out with the rubber hood touching the glass. Here are 2 shots taken seconds apart from the Zephyr. One right up to the glass and one a short distance from the glass. You can see reflections on the 2nd but not the 1st.


Great idea. Thanks for the tip. Wish I knew that this past summer.


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## KmH (Nov 16, 2017)

So far I've made sure my roomettes have always been on the upper level, but I don't care which roomette on the upper level.

I do fine in 7, 8, 9 or 10 and don't notice any difference regards the room location relative to the car's trucks.

As far as noise when trying to sleep, no doubt removing my hearing aids to sleep might be considered an advantage.






People do in fact sleep in the Sightseer Lounge car. Some sleep on 1 of the 5 the couches, some sleep on the floor, usually in sleeping bags.


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## the_traveler (Nov 16, 2017)

Those are the Lounge Lizards! And I have seen employees tell someone that they cannot bring a sleeping bag in the SSL to sleep - including getting the Conductor involved after the woman argued she would not leave!





I for one like to go to the SSL at night to look out. Especially on a clear night with a full moon!

It is remarkable how many of these Lounge Lizards complain that the bright lights interfere with their sleep - and want the lights dimmed! I have yet to see a ticket say that your assigned seat is Seat ___, Sightseer Lounge - I have only seen fares for coach, business class and sleepers.


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## v v (Nov 16, 2017)

Thanks StanJazz


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## niemi24s (Nov 16, 2017)

Finding a ready-made flexible rubber lens shade for some cameras might be a bit difficult. Here's one solution:




A hobby knife with a sharp #11 blade helps trim the hole on the small end so it goes on fairly easily yet doesn't interfere with the operation of the lens retraction mechanism.


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## KmH (Nov 16, 2017)

"Necessity is the mother of invention".


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## caravanman (Nov 18, 2017)

I have taken several winter trips on the Zephyr, great views with the snowy scenery!

On recent trips, for financial reasons, I have slept in the lounge on occasion, and am sorry if that offends those with sleeping accommodations who want to leave their sleepers empty and then complain about those less fortunate folk who can't afford them. Lounge Lizzards? Maybe poorer folk than you, trying to make the best of their own situation?

Some folk won't travel if their roomette number is wrong, some folk won't travel if they have to go in coach... Age 65, I travel despite my lack of funds, and feel proud of managing that. Maybe travel does not broaden everyone's mind...?

Ed.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 18, 2017)

caravanman said:


> I have taken several winter trips on the Zephyr, great views with the snowy scenery!
> 
> On recent trips, for financial reasons, I have slept in the lounge on occasion, and am sorry if that offends those with sleeping accommodations who want to leave their sleepers empty and then complain about those less fortunate folk who can't afford them. Lounge Lizzards? Maybe poorer folk than you, trying to make the best of their own situation?
> 
> ...


LIKE


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 18, 2017)

Spot on Eddie!


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## greatcats (Nov 18, 2017)

You told ‘ em Ed. Hello from Flagstaff.

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## crescent-zephyr (Nov 18, 2017)

Exactly!!! I spend hours upon hours in the lounge car on the zephyr. Sometimes I'll look at my phone, sometimes I'll play cards with my self. Sometimes I wear a hat to the diner. All of this offends some members on here who have strict travel guidelines.

Also, I've never asked for a specific Roomette, and never really cared which one I get. I prefer the upper level for the views but the Lower level is sometimes quieter. I've had good and bad service in both regular sleepers and the transition cars so that assignment doesn't concern me in the least either.

If im spending the kind of money im spending to ride Amtrak im not going to limit my time in the lounge.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 19, 2017)

To be fair to Tennessee Travelers, he took care to plan ahead to ensure his needs and desires were met. Room 3. IMHO a responsible traveler.

When Amtrak moved him to room 18 in the transition car, this was a considerable downgrade. Many of us know that the transition car shares the sca with other cars so it's more difficult to get the bed put up and down and other needs met.

Personally, I have no issues with pax who sleep in the lounge car. I don't go in there at night. The few times I passed through it looked liked there were still seats available to sit in. Additionally, some crews makes announcements that night time cell phone conversation should occur in the lounge car.

I don't think Tennessee Traveler should be judged, nor should pax who sleep in the lounge car. Some of these people travel out of necessity(unlike us) and they are adjusting to a unsual experience.

So live and let live.

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## caravanman (Nov 19, 2017)

I apologise, my annoyance was directed at folk who judge me, stick lables on me for sleeping in the lounge. We are all entitled to travel or not in the way that suits us individually.

Live and let live is the way.

Ed.


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## Rail Freak (Nov 19, 2017)

I personally try not to judge other travelers. I try to listen to different experiences & maybe learn from them! BUT, the #1 thing that gets under my skin is folks ,in the SSL, that put their books ,I Pads etc., in the seats while they go eat lunch or take a nap!!!!!


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## Lonestar648 (Nov 20, 2017)

When I am traveling with a companion, since some nights sleep isn't possible even with several prescriptions, I will try to sit in the SSL so not to disturb my companion sleeping in the other bunk. I am annoyed if the sleepers have piled their stuff in all the chairs or stretched over them so there is no place to sit. A couple times a Conductor has helped create a space and one time even invited me to sit in the DC since they were having coffee there. I just want to enjoy the outside in an attempt to distract my mind for a few hours. I will say there are times someone who was sleeping saw me and helped me by moving their and/or a companions things, I always apologize for waking them, I know how precious sleep is to get. Also, I know I cant sleep in the Coach seats.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 20, 2017)

Personally, I am not "judging anyone" nor giving anyone names such as "lizard lounge". I was simply reporting the disappointment I had in the sudden removal of the sleeping car I was assigned and "for me" unsatisfactory reassignment since I make my reservations several months in advance and pay my money for the same. Since my personal schedule is flexible, I simply am happier changing my dates of travel instead of traveling at such a time when I feel my trip had been technically downgraded. The lesson I learned about booking the lowest number sleeper is just that -- a learned lesson I will practice in the future.

Amtrak was kind enough to refund all my $$ and points with no refund penalty. They would have credited my $$ back to my credit card without penalty but I chose to receive the refund in an e-voucher. Also, from a personal point of view, I had already booked and planned trips in February and April so cancelling the December trip while disappointing was made knowing I will soon be traveling Amtrak in my favorite roomette location and hopefully many more to come. In fact I used some of my refunded points to books a June trip on the Crescent New Orleans to New York City. I am considering booking my departure from NYC on the Cardinal to Chicago since I've never ridden that train. I have ridden the Lake Shore Limited two or three times and the Capitol Limited several times each way. Anyway, all is well and I'm not judging anyone.


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## tommylicious (Nov 20, 2017)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> Personally, I am not "judging anyone" nor giving anyone names such as "lizard lounge". I was simply reporting the disappointment I had in the sudden removal of the sleeping car I was assigned and "for me" unsatisfactory reassignment since I make my reservations several months in advance and pay my money for the same. Since my personal schedule is flexible, I simply am happier changing my dates of travel instead of traveling at such a time when I feel my trip had been technically downgraded. The lesson I learned about booking the lowest number sleeper is just that -- a learned lesson I will practice in the future.
> 
> Amtrak was kind enough to refund all my $$ and points with no refund penalty. They would have credited my $$ back to my credit card without penalty but I chose to receive the refund in an e-voucher. Also, from a personal point of view, I had already booked and planned trips in February and April so cancelling the December trip while disappointing was made knowing I will soon be traveling Amtrak in my favorite roomette location and hopefully many more to come. In fact I used some of my refunded points to books a June trip on the Crescent New Orleans to New York City. I am considering booking my departure from NYC on the Cardinal to Chicago since I've never ridden that train. I have ridden the Lake Shore Limited two or three times and the Capitol Limited several times each way. Anyway, all is well and I'm not judging anyone.


if cardinal were to get a VL diner, i would ride it. otherwise, no. same with LSL these days.


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## SP&S (Nov 20, 2017)

Lonestar648 said:


> StanJazz said:
> 
> 
> > You can get good shots through a window if you use a rubber lens hood and shoot straight out with the rubber hood touching the glass. Here are 2 shots taken seconds apart from the Zephyr. One right up to the glass and one a short distance from the glass. You can see reflections on the 2nd but not the 1st.
> ...


The lens hood is a great idea. If you can take the cut in light transmission a polarizing filter works wonders in cutting reflections. It also can make the sky a deeper blue.


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## KmH (Nov 20, 2017)

The train windows are tinted, and a polarizing filter has limits regarding the angle of the sun to the long axis of the lens as far as an increase of sky color saturation.

Indeed, once the Sun is more than about 30° above the horizon the increased saturation (deeper blue) of the sky a polarizing filter provides starts getting uneven with one side of an image being more saturated than the other.

Mid-day is the worst time to use a polarizing filter if you are wanting that increased saturation of the sky.

You want the sun lower than 30° and 90° to the long axis of the lens.


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## SP&S (Nov 20, 2017)

Indeed the polarizer has limits on what it can do to the sky, but it's a great weapon against reflections when shooting at an angle thru a window. (Although sometimes it will bring out stress patterns in the glazing and be absolutely useless) Just was suggesting one more thing to try.


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## samsj (Nov 21, 2017)

Hello,

I am new to this forum and i will be taking my first trip on a Amtrak, Zephyr during christmas week. i am travelling from San Francisco to Grand Junction CO. after 4 days of Arches park, Monument valley, i will be heading to Denver. When i tried to book coach tickets from Grand junction to Denver, it showed only the roomette available and no coach seats. but coach seats were available from Green River UT (one stop before Grand junction), so i took the tickets. I called amtrak customer service to confirm that i can board from Grand junction instead of green river (since my car rental has to be returned at Grand junction). they said that there will be track repair work at Grand junction(hence no coach seats) and no will be able to board from there and they may make transportation arrangements for people who have tickets from GJ.

I am not sure how roomette seats show up but not coach when no one can board from GJ. Also do they really make alternate bus transport and take you to previous station for boarding and if so, how early will they notify you. I need to make hotel reservations in GJ or Green river plus find a bus from GJ to Green river myself.

I appreciate any help or advice.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 21, 2017)

The mods might want to start a new thread with this last post.

Samsj, im suggesting new thread with your post so it will get more views and you might get better information.

To answer your question, I suspect that the track work is for the track that runs next to the platform. If that track is out of service it's complicated to load and unload large groups of passengers like those in coach. Sleepers carry fewer pax per car thus smaller groups to board.

The CZ is serviced in grand Junction so I don't understand why they would not have some provisions for all pax.

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## samsj (Nov 21, 2017)

Thanks Steve. i will post a new thread..


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## RichardWSnow (Nov 22, 2017)

SP&S said:


> Indeed the polarizer has limits on what it can do to the sky, but it's a great weapon against reflections when shooting at an angle thru a window. (Although sometimes it will bring out stress patterns in the glazing and be absolutely useless) Just was suggesting one more thing to try.


This nifty little item addresses the reflection problem quite well.


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## Rover (Nov 24, 2017)

KmH said:


> If mid to late January the sleepers on the CZ may be towards the front of the winter consist, rather than at the end of the consist.
> 
> Loco, loco, baggage, transdorm (0540/0640), sleeper, sleeper, dining car, observation car, coach, coach, (coach as needed).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'll be looking on the Tahoe Truckee cam to spot those changes.


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## KmH (Nov 25, 2017)

AU member Agent shoots video almost daily of the #5 & #6 as they go through Agency, Iowa near Hazel St.

I subscribe to his YouTube channel. On YouTube he is A. Train.

Last year the change was made on May 26 - http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/71872-cz-end-of-winter-consist-date/

https://youtu.be/GLOTm3XxO5c


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## EmCee Al (Nov 27, 2017)

FYI if anyone is still interested, #6 had three (!) sleepers on the rear today as it pulled into Grand Junction.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 28, 2017)

EmCee Al said:


> FYI if anyone is still interested, #6 had three (!) sleepers on the rear today as it pulled into Grand Junction.


The sleeper reduction is not scheduled until December 1. I'll be interested to see if they actually only have one sleeper during December. I cancelled my December trips and now will ride in February in Car 531 and in April in Car 631 which is the lowest number sleeper next to the dining car on the Zephyr. There is no x30 car on the Zephyr as on most of the other LD Western Trains.


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## EmCee Al (Nov 28, 2017)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> EmCee Al said:
> 
> 
> > FYI if anyone is still interested, #6 had three (!) sleepers on the rear today as it pulled into Grand Junction.
> ...


Interesting! I am in 631 in mid February and in 532 toward the end of February!


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## KmH (Nov 29, 2017)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> The sleeper reduction is not scheduled until December 1. I'll be interested to see if they actually only have one sleeper during December. I cancelled my December trips and now will ride in February in Car 531 and in April in Car 631 which is the lowest number sleeper next to the dining car on the Zephyr. There is no x30 car on the Zephyr as on most of the other LD Western Trains.


When demand justifies it they add a coach or a sleeper.

I'll be on the CZ in March and wonder which car number is hooked to the _*front*_ of the dining car during the _winter consist?_

I'm booked in the 0532/0632 car both ways, and for various reasons hope it isn't right behind the Trans-dorm.

In the regular consist the 0531/0631 car is right _*behind*_ the dining car, with the 0532/0632 car behind the 0531/0631 car.

By the way, when there are 3 sleepers in the CZ consist for high season, it looks like the 3rd sleeper is the 05*30*/06*30* car:

The regular consist:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/32610-line-numbersconsist-listings/

*Train # 5 & 6*

*California Zephyr*

6 sets

CHI pool

----|---- —— Heritage Baggage

0540|0640 —— Superliner Dorm/Sleeper

0510|0610 —— Superliner Coach(seasonal)

0511|0611 —— Superliner Coach

0512|0612 —— Superliner Coach

----|---- —— Superliner Lounge

----|---- —— Superliner Diner

0531|0631 —— Superliner Sleeper

0532|0632 —— Superliner Sleeper

_*0530|0630*_ —— Superliner Sleeper(seasonal)


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## Tennessee Traveler (Nov 30, 2017)

KmH said:


> By the way, when there are 3 sleepers in the CZ consist for high season, it looks like the 3rd sleeper is the 05*30*/06*30* car:
> 
> The regular consist:
> 
> ...


I would disagree about the 3rd Sleeper. When I was on the third sleeper it was x33. I believe the 0530/0630 number may have been used when the third sleeper only ran between Denver and Chicago. For several years all cars on the Zephyr run the full route Chicago to Emeryville. There is no coach or sleeper now added or deleted in Denver.


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## chakk (Nov 30, 2017)

The x31 sleeper is always adjacent to the diner on the CZ, whether or not the sleepers are at the rear of the train or at the front of the train.

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## KmH (Nov 30, 2017)

Thanks gentlemen. You're both a wealth of CZ info.

For shots/video on curves of the locos out the side windows I'll just have to skedaddle back through the XX31, diner, SSL, to the last coach car and hope for a vacant window seat next to a window.

While I'm back there I can get some shots/footage out the railfan window.


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## DoB (Dec 1, 2017)

SP&S said:


> Indeed the polarizer has limits on what it can do to the sky, but it's a great weapon against reflections when shooting at an angle thru a window. (Although sometimes it will bring out stress patterns in the glazing and be absolutely useless) Just was suggesting one more thing to try.


When I made the mistake of using a polarizing filter on the train, many of my photos came out with an uneven purple hue. I don't recommend it.


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## KmH (Dec 1, 2017)

There are polarizing filters, and there are polarizing filter.

Low cost, low quality filters, of any kind, usually do not perform as well as high quality filters do.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Dec 1, 2017)

*One Sleeper Verification*: I just watched on MH Tower(Chicago) Railstream Cam the departure of the Zephyr Train 5 for December 1 and, yes, it has only one sleeper(531) and it is the last car of the consist so the roomettes in the transition sleeper require you to walk through coaches and SSL to get to the Dining Car. Since Amtrak is now selling what few roomettes it has available throughout December for $985 average including coach fare for one person, I am at a mystery why they would cut the second sleeper for the first time that I am aware of EVER.


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## chakk (Dec 1, 2017)

If the lone sleeper is not sold out, why should Amtrak add a second sleeper?

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Tennessee Traveler (Dec 2, 2017)

chakk said:


> If the lone sleeper is not sold out, why should Amtrak add a second sleeper?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


Lone Sleeper was and is sold out. The very high roomette prices are for roomettes in the transition sleeper. Arbitrarily, removing the second sleeper for the whole month of December was not based on "sales" since it includes the holiday season when multiple sleepers could be sold out. And it looks like they are adding the second sleeper back in January forward based on Amsnag pricing.


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 2, 2017)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > If the lone sleeper is not sold out, why should Amtrak add a second sleeper?
> ...


The sleeper has not been removed for the whole month of December. They remove it during the two week lull between Thanksgiving and Christmas ramp up. If you look around, you'll see most of the trains are shorter. This will give them time to blitz things that took a pounding and/or were overlooked during the crunch.

They did the same thing last year. I guess you didn't notice.


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## neroden (Dec 4, 2017)

Looks to me like a shortage of sleepers. If they're still selling out between Thanksgiving and Christmas...


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## Rover (Dec 11, 2017)

KmH said:


> AU member Agent shoots video almost daily of the #5 & #6 as they go through Agency, Iowa near Hazel St.
> 
> I subscribe to his YouTube channel. On YouTube he is A. Train.
> 
> ...


I watched it slo-mo. I wish he'd film in full HD..


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## Wolverine72 (Dec 12, 2017)

I took the Zephyr from Dearborn Mi. to Glenwood Springs at Christmas 2013. Rode coach westbound and found I still can't sleep in a chair. Same issue I have with air travel. I spent the night in the lounge car in a booth. Didn't notice anyone sleeping in the car. West bound from Denver on a packed train saw passengers standing in the aisle waiting for a seat. In consideration of those i waiting several polite announcements were made aimed at the hogs. Booked a roomette for the return trip which which put me in the transdorm. After Denver i was the only passenger in that car. Perfect!


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## PaulM (Dec 21, 2017)

FWIW, I'm booked in 0533 departing CHI 1/3/2018. I hope I don't suffer Tennesee's fate. Do we have a consensus as to whether this will be behind the transdorm or at the end of the train?



Thirdrail7 said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > If the lone sleeper is not sold out, why should Amtrak add a second sleeper?
> ...


Removing the second sleeper for maintenance purposes doesn't sound as customer unfriendly as removing it for revenue enhancement purposes. It makes sense because it seems more sleepers were activated this Thanksgiving than previously.

Sorry, even though I'm a frequent CZ rider, I don't check its consist on a daily basis. Even if I had, my memory isn't that good that I would remember a factoid like that a whole year later.





Responding to chakk: why not remove the first sleeper. Think of the cost that can be saved and the astronomical price asked for the transition roomettes.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Dec 21, 2017)

Based on previous years, the change in location of sleepers in the consist does not happen until around mid-January so it's pretty safe to expect the 533 sleeper to be the last car of the Amtrak consist on January 3.


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## shelzp (Dec 21, 2017)

I scheduled a round trip from Davis to Galesburg on the CZ this summer. It was just for the train ride with same day turnaround as I wanted to see the scenery since I’d heard so much about the gorgeous views. I have well over 40000 miles on Amtrak so never considered that anything on this particular route would bother me. Wrong. I was horrified when I saw the deep canyons from my roomette window. Not joking-by the time we got to Denver I was crying and called Amtrak to reroute myself onto the SWC when we got to Galesburg. Believe me it’s the first time I ever cried while on a train. I was horrified to see the edge of the track a few feet from the drop off. I never took my eye off of it either-if we were going over the edge I was gonna notice right off!

It was an AGR trip and I had to pay the fare difference in points but that was alright with me. They did ding me for a penalty so I wrote a nice little note and asked if they’d consider refunding the fine and they did! I explained I didn’t mind paying the fare difference but respectfully requested they refund the 10% and was pleasantly surprised when they did so immediately.

My reaction still surprises me but I’m glad I took the trip because it’s off the bucket list.


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## neroden (Dec 22, 2017)

For some reason I don't find the cliff-edge *rail* routes unnerving -- maybe because I know how good tracks are at keeping the train where it's supposed to be, barring severe speeding -- I find cliff-edge *road* routes really unnerving.

But it was quite unnerving when during the flooding of 2008 we detoured on the BNSF line from Chicago to Minneapolis, which runs along the Mississippi river, and there was water as far as the eye could see on *both* sides of the track. It really gave the impression that we were *in* the Mississippi river and I remember thinking "what happens if the water rises another couple of inches?" I didn't really want to drown in a train...

I was on the last passenger train through; the next day the line closed because it was underwater.


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## Lonestar648 (Dec 22, 2017)

I don't mind the normal runs along the edge, but rising water is a bit unnerving. I was on the TE three years ago south of STL in a monster downpour, with water flowing over everything like waterfalls. looking out the rear of the train, the ties started to disappear, the train started going slower and slower until we just creeped along because all you could see were the two rails. One of the Conductors kept coming back to check out the rear view. We arrive in STL instead of on time, 5 hours late. Everyone was asking where do you go if the water gets too high.


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## KmH (Dec 22, 2017)

That part of the CZ route through Gore Canyon has been there for over 100 years.

Back when the route was first built it was a marvel of late 1800s engineering and rail line construction.

With that part of the route being a grade the train has to go pretty slow up or down the grade.

Has any train ever gone off the rails anywhere between Hot Sulphur Springs (Mile Post 86 & top of Byers Canyon) and the bottom of Gore Canyon (MP 112)?


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## Rover (Dec 29, 2017)

RE: Scary Canyon Heights...

From the NPS on the South Rim Mule rides to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back:

_Riders must be at least 4 ft 7 in/140 cm in height and must be fluent in English, must be in good physical condition, *should not be afraid of heights* or large animals, and cannot be pregnant._


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## chakk (Dec 29, 2017)

KmH said:


> That part of the CZ route through Gore Canyon has been there for over 100 years.
> 
> Back when the route was first built it was a marvel of late 1800s engineering and rail line construction.
> 
> ...


There was a freight train collision with another train near Hot Sulphur Springs back in the 1950’s. There is a video about it on YouTube. Involved some “loss of situational awareness”. Rockslides in Gore Canyon have closed the line several times. And I’ve gone thru on the CZ once at 10 mph when a heavy spring snowfall brought down the signaling wires. But I’ve never heard of a derailment dumping passengers into the river in the canyon.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## railiner (Dec 29, 2017)

I remember this accident in the Fraser Canyon, a few miles east of Granby, back in 1985. I was one of several station employees from Denver that were sent on the rescue buses to Granby to assist with the transfer of passenger's and baggage....

http://www.drgw.net/info/DCA-85-RM-005


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