# Normal For Sleepers On Rear And Coach In Front?



## seat38a (Jul 21, 2014)

On our 4th of July trip up to San Francisco, I saw the CZ in Martinez CA. I noticed that the sleepers were attached to the rear of the train and the coach on the front. How do they decide which order to attach the cars? The Sunset Limited that we were on in January had the sleepers in the front and coach in the back. It makes sense to put it in the back if its a train like the Empire Builder or Texas Eagle that needs to decouple along the way but on a train such as the CZ that does not need to split along the way is there an order on where they attach what?



P1000538 by seat38a, on Flickr


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## choochoodood (Jul 21, 2014)

Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.


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## The Whistler (Jul 21, 2014)

I could never figure out why there was no set place for the sleepers on Amtrak trains. Sometimes they are behind the baggage car and at other times they are the last car (s) on the train. What was particularly puzzling is why the sleeper was the last car on our Cardinal trip in June. At Indianapolis two coaches of the Hoosier state were attached behind us making the sleeper in the middle of the train. On the Empire builder sleepers are in the middle and in the rear of the train. This makes sense as the train splits in Spokane; the front half to Seattle and the rear half to Portland.


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## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2014)

Also in the case of the SL, there is also a "split". The NOL sleepers are on the front, followed by the coaches and the CHI (422) sleeper is on the rear. In SAS, the 422 sleeper is take off of 2 to be attached to 22 to CHI.


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## jis (Jul 21, 2014)

These days the Sleepers are generally at the rear of the train. In the eastern trains the baggage car is the last car of the train, behind the last sleeper.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 21, 2014)

Pre-Amtrak tradition was to usually put the Sleepers (Pullmans) at the end of the train if the train carried both those and Coaches. My understanding was to keep them further back from the horn noise. Today I imagine it has a lot to do with convenience for switching and yard work.


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## Ryan (Jul 21, 2014)

Up until a few years ago, the norm for Amtrak was sleepers up front, unless there was a good reason to do something different.

Then they started putting the sleepers on the rear of the Silvers and Crescent so that they could swap them out with the NY section of the LSL and run that south to thaw out. Now that change has been made permanent and they seem to be fooling around with putting the sleeper(s) on the back of the Cardinal (which raises the obvious problem of the coaches added at Indy putting the sleeper(s) in the middle).

On the Superliner equipped trains, they still usually run with the sleepers up front, unless there's a reason to do something different (like the EB split or dropping the sleeper in Denver). Also, those trains will run reversed if there are private cars that need access to the "main" train. If you look closely at this video, you'll note that the transdorm is on the rear and the coaches are running up front:



MrFSS said:


>


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## Silver Star rider (Jul 21, 2014)

I personally like the sleepers behind the baggage at the front of the train, you get to where you are going sooner then if at the back of the train 

On one trip I was in the last sleeper car without anything else behind me. The ride was bumpy. I hope what people say is true that the baggage at the rear helps keep the ride smoother.

Bruce-SSR


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## Henry Kisor (Jul 21, 2014)

Snakes on a plane, sleepers on the rear. It's that simple. :giggle:


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 21, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Pre-Amtrak tradition was to usually put the Sleepers (Pullmans) at the end of the train if the train carried both those and Coaches. My understanding was to keep them further back from the horn noise. Today I imagine it has a lot to do with convenience for switching and yard work.


But actually there was much more switching around in the past Set out sleepers ,thru sleepers, trains having multiple desttnations like the Empire Builder,,etc, etcmuch more than today, That thing about horn blowing sounds like today's generation not being used to it


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## brentrain17 (Jul 21, 2014)

Is there more horn blowing these days? (many more crossings?) Just wondering.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 21, 2014)

Actually there may be less horn blowing in cities since so many places have put in quiet zones which require double gates and lights! As for the rural areas, there are so many unmarked crossings, especially in the South, that horn blowing is almost continous on some routes!

The train horn doesn't bother me and I like to be close to the Diner and Lounge which are usually next to the Revenue Sleepers on most LD Routes! When the Sleeper is on the back end without a trailing car ( baggage, PVs etc) it tends be a case of the tail wagging the dog! YMMV


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## PRae_Train (Jul 21, 2014)

I live less than 100 yards from tracks that run dozens of commuter trains and (when running) the daily 448/449, plus many freight. There are no grade crossings for many miles in either direction, so I seldom hear any horns.

When I do hear the horns, if the train sounds like it's going slowly I think I understand it, as it may mean track work is in the area, but when it's obviously going full speed, it's hard to figure out why they would blow it.

I have wondered if Amtrak celebrates on it's first day back after bustitions.


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## FormerOBS (Jul 21, 2014)

In the past generation or so, there have been a lot of grade crossing elimination projects, so I'm sure there are fewer grade crossings to blow for.

The usual arrangement in the old days was baggage cars on the front, coaches next, diner in the middle, and sleepers at the rear. I was always told that the traditional reason was that they wanted to keep the sleepers farther from the noise and smoke of the steam engine. If cars were to be dropped off and added enroute, this arrangement might be adjusted to suit. In its last days, B&O's train 17, the Cleveland Night Express, arrived in Cleveland with only three cars: a combination baggage and snack service car; a coach; and a 10 roomette, 6 bedroom sleeper. East of Akron, these cars were carried on another train in that order, so the separation of coach and sleeper passengers on the longer train couldn't be maintained.

When I rode the Seaboard Air Line's diesel-powered Silver Meteor in 1967, the sleepers were ahead of the coaches, separated by the diner. The boat-tail observation car was for all passengers, both coach and sleeper; but sleeper passengers had to walk all the way back through the coaches to access it. There was a combination bedroom/lounge car for sleeper passengers only, positioned just ahead of the diner. Its lounge seating area had high windows that curved into the ceiling, similar to the curved window in a sightseer lounge.

My understanding is that these decisions are mostly based on the switching requirements enroute and at terminals. The Silver Meteor was a Miami train, but cars for St. Petersburg were cut out enroute, and the specific switching operations may have dictated the order.

Back in the day, head-end baggage, express, and mail cars were often cut out. If the train had to drop a head-end car and a sleeper at an intermediate stop, the RR might decide to run that one head-end car on the rear, coupled to the sleeper that is to be dropped. Or they might decide to run the sleeper at the head-end, right behind the head-end car.

The Auto Train is never turned: sleepers on the north end; coaches on the south, with the auto carriers always trailing.

On that trip on the 1967 Silver Meteor, I remember that all three E unit diesels faced forward. I believe one unit was cut out to handle the St. Petersburg section, while the other two took the major portion of the train into Miami. With two engines facing forward into Miami, a failure of the lead locomotive can be dealt with by simply swapping engine positions. There would be no need to find a turning facility on short notice to keep the train going.

There can be a lot of factors taken into consideration, but the final determining factor generally is efficient operation.


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## Silver Star rider (Jul 21, 2014)

brentrain17 said:


> Is there more horn blowing these days? (many more crossings?) Just wondering.


I recorded this on the star about 9:30 at night around Raleigh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYr15-lX1Bk

This is about average. This is the 10 car (I think). So I am thinking there is another sleeper, baggage till we get to the twin diesels.

Bruce-SSR


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## SP&S (Jul 22, 2014)

Sleepers in the front please, the horn is music to my ears.


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## William W. (Jul 22, 2014)

I do prefer that the sleepers be on the end. It is so much quieter. I've never really noticed whether the ride is rougher or not, but that's probably because the baggage car is on the very end.


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## Bierboy (Jul 22, 2014)

SP&S said:


> Sleepers in the front please, the horn is music to my ears.


As it is to mine....


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## jis (Jul 22, 2014)

William W. said:


> I do prefer that the sleepers be on the end. It is so much quieter. I've never really noticed whether the ride is rougher or not, but that's probably because the baggage car is on the very end.


I too am in the Sleepers in the rear camp. Fortunately in the last trip that I took last week all the Sleepers were in the rear. I even had the roomette adjacent to the rear railfan's window in the last car of the California Zephyr and loved it. I don't particularly care about horns, and if I did I could simply listen to recording of the same on my hi-fi system all day long without bothering to get on a train anyway.


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## SarahZ (Jul 22, 2014)

I experienced "sleepers on the rear" for the first time last week, and I loved it. I was a bit bummed the baggage car was blocking the railfan window, as my roomette was near the end of the last car, but that was a small price to pay.

Anyway, I couldn't figure out what felt so strange until I realized I couldn't hear the horn. When I did, it was so distant that I didn't even notice it after a while. It was so peaceful.


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## Hytec (Jul 22, 2014)

From 1988 until 1997 I rode the Crescent from Slidell, LA to WAS on business at least every other month. The sleepers, initially Heritage, then Viewliners were always up front, and I loved it because the ride was smooth and I slept like a baby. Then in 2010 my wife and I took the same trip. Sadly it was miserable because the Viewliners were the last two cars. We were whipped and bounced and rocked. It was a little better north of ATL, but not much. Face it, with the exception of the NEC, these are freight company rails and freight cars don't complain. The most unfortunate part of that trip was that I had oversold my wife, so now she refuses to even talk about train trips....we drive. ARGH!


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## jis (Jul 22, 2014)

On the single level trains the Sleepers are rarely the last car these days. There is usually a baggage car behind the last Sleeper these days.


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## Durham57 (Jul 22, 2014)

What is the "railfan window"?


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## William W. (Jul 22, 2014)

Durham57 said:


> What is the "railfan window"?


It is the window on the rear door of the train. It is the only one that allows you to see directly behind the train. The other, less common window can the the door on the very front of a Superliner car, when the transdorm is not on the front. I was lucky enough to be on a CL one time that had this configuration.


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## SarahZ (Jul 22, 2014)

Durham57 said:


> What is the "railfan window"?


It's the window on the rear door of the last coach or sleeper car of the train. When they don't put a baggage car behind it, it gives you a lovely view of the tracks and scenery.







(From http://russmanspot.blogspot.com/2011/12/amtrak-empire-builder-trip-red-wing-mn.html)

Many people like to take pictures and video from that spot.


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## The Chief (Jul 22, 2014)

Durham57 said:


> What is the "railfan window"?


End of Train window/door.

*Texas Eagle* backing out of Fort Worth.

Sleeper on rear end, _The Chief_ photo.


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## Silver Star rider (Jul 22, 2014)

jis said:


> On the single level trains the Sleepers are never the last car. There is always a baggage car behind the last Sleeper these days.


These days being the operative word. Here is a photo of a NJ Transit train sneaking in behind the Star at Newark Penn Station.







I remember this trip. I was the only passenger boarding at NYP in that sleeper car. The SCA greeted me by name. When I asked how he knew who I was, he told me that 

Bruce-SSR


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## CHamilton (Jul 22, 2014)

My avatar is taken from the railfan window of train 27 a couple of years ago. If you look carefully, you can see the great view, as well as the dirty window. That's Amtrak for you


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## William W. (Jul 22, 2014)

I remember when I took the CZ, people were standing behind the conductor and filming while we were backing into DEN. It seemed to make him a little nervous, because if he screwed up, it would recorded.


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## neroden (Jul 22, 2014)

The attractiveness of the rear window is, of course, why rear observation cars used to be a thing. The operational annoyance of having to put them on the end of the consist, in a particular direction, every time, seems to have discouraged their use in more recent decades.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 22, 2014)

A favorite Amtrak memory of mine is from viewing through the railfan window at the rear of a Sleeping Car aboard The Desert Wind as the train traversed the area between eastern California and Navada. My traveling companion and I had Bedroom A on that car so the trip to the window was short and the views memorable. That was a truly great trip.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 22, 2014)

jis said:


> On the single level trains the Sleepers are never the last car. There is always a baggage car behind the last Sleeper these days.


Maybe not always. I was on a Metro Rail train leaving the Washington, D. C. station for Greenbelt, Maryland in early June, 2014. We passed an incoming obvious long distance train with Viewliner Sleepers at the rear. The luggage car was not at the rear. Checking the timetable with the times any LD trains were due into Washington at the time we were departing the station on the Metro, I concluded that the train I saw was The Crescent arriving in Washington.


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## chakk (Jul 22, 2014)

choochoodood said:


> Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.


Not always. There are some dates this summer when Amtrak is running that last sleeper all the way to Emeryville.


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## Railroad Bill (Jul 22, 2014)

chakk said:


> choochoodood said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.
> ...


Yes, we had the 533 car all the way to SLC a few years ago. Loved the railfan window on 633 coming back but when we backed into DEN, the conductor made it clear he did not want anyone back there when he was watching and calling signals for the engineer. 

Best ride was the 27 sleeper on the EB. Got some great photos all the way across the Dakota and Montana countryside. 

Ride the CL and sleepers have always been up front.. But leaving CLE at 1 or 2 am, we rarely are awake to hear the train horns.


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## jis (Jul 23, 2014)

It is now called the 530/630 car. Not 533/633 car!

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## jphjaxfl (Jul 23, 2014)

FormerOBS said:


> In the past generation or so, there have been a lot of grade crossing elimination projects, so I'm sure there are fewer grade crossings to blow for.
> 
> The usual arrangement in the old days was baggage cars on the front, coaches next, diner in the middle, and sleepers at the rear. I was always told that the traditional reason was that they wanted to keep the sleepers farther from the noise and smoke of the steam engine. If cars were to be dropped off and added enroute, this arrangement might be adjusted to suit. In its last days, B&O's train 17, the Cleveland Night Express, arrived in Cleveland with only three cars: a combination baggage and snack service car; a coach; and a 10 roomette, 6 bedroom sleeper. East of Akron, these cars were carried on another train in that order, so the separation of coach and sleeper passengers on the longer train couldn't be maintained.
> 
> ...


I believe SAL kept locomotives in Wildwood where the trains would split. The Wildwood based locomotive would handle the Wildwood-Tampa - St. Pete section. In Miami, the trains were wyed and backed into the Seaboard Station. Amtrak continued that practice til they moved to the current Hialeah area station. It was not uncommon for railroads to maintain passenger locomotives along the routes. L&N kept a passenger locomotive in Nashville right up until Amtrak, even though trains no longer originated there.


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## FormerOBS (Jul 23, 2014)

I certainly can't dispute what you say. That's the way I remember the locomotive operation, but the memory is 47 years old, so it may be faulty. Or the operating plan may have changed from time to time.


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## Alan dennis (Dec 11, 2014)

Sleepers were always on the back until amtrak decided to do take yet another step down a decade ago or so. I started riding trains in the late 70's - been on every Amtrak train in America numerous times and was never at the front in a sleeper until the 2000s. I remember watching from the back window of my sleeper on the broadway limited as we backed into union station in chicago. Amtrak is the worst. Too bad you have to go to Canada to ride a real train.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Dec 11, 2014)

chakk said:


> choochoodood said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, the CZ does indeed do a "split" along the way. In Denver, the last sleeper from #5 is removed from the rear of the train and re-attached to the rear of the returning #6. That may be part of the reason that the sleepers are at the rear, i.e. to keep them all together. Of course, the transdorm will always be at the front.
> ...


My experience riding the CZ this past summer is that the 3rd sleeper is running the full route Chicago to Emeryville. The Denver only sleeper is no longer.


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## FormerOBS (Dec 11, 2014)

Alan dennis:

You say "Amtrak is the worst". No context. No qualifiers.

"...been on every Amtrak train in America numerous times...." Not likely, Mr. Frimbo.

"Sleepers were always on the back until Amtrak decided to...." ALWAYS? You haven't been on every Amtrak train in America.

I'm giving your very astute comments the credence they deserve.

Tom


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## George K (Dec 11, 2014)

Eastbound CZ in September left EMY with 2 sleepers at the rear. They went all the way to CHI.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 11, 2014)

You indicated that you had been on " Every" Amtrak LD Route since the 70s and that Sleepers were " always" on the Rear until Amtrak decide to move them to the front which started a decline of passenger service!

I've been riding passenger Trains since the 1940s and also have been on every LD Route that Amtrak has run since A Day except the Pioneer and while I'll conceed that, Pre- Amtrak, the Sleepers were generally run on the back of Trains, I've been on Many Trains that had Sleepers on the Front, in the Middle and on the Rear of the consist!

( cut out sleepers and combined trains used to be very common even after A- Day)

So perhaps your own personal experience isn't as comphrensive as you think so maybe absolutes like " Always" ,"Never" etc. aren't appropriate when it comes to this thread!

Generally and Usually would perhaps be more fitting eh?


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## GG-1 (Dec 11, 2014)

Aloha

Quite frankly I prefer the sleeper up front, Smother ride and the horn is music to sleep by.


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## Thirdrail7 (May 21, 2015)

It looks as though the ol' flip flop is set to occur on the eastern long haul trains. Once again, coaches are going to the rear.


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## JoeBas (May 21, 2015)

I thought ADA reasons made the sleepers on the rear preferable. Has the ADA changed?


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## Ryan (May 21, 2015)

Interesting, I thought that the plan was to keep them year-round.

It wasn't an ADA thing, it was a "make it easy to rotate the LSL consist (which runs sleepers last) south to thaw out in the winter" thing.


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## JoeBas (May 21, 2015)

Well, that WAS the reason they were flipped in the winter, and then un-flipped in the summer.

But last summer they left them flipped, and I thought I remembered something about it being related to vestibules and ADA requirements being easier that way...


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## tommylicious (May 21, 2015)

whatever location minimizes thru traffic and lookie-loos is the one i prefer


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## Orie (May 21, 2015)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but I'm pretty sure the season has something to do with it too. In winter I've noticed a lot of LD trains with the sleepers up front, while for the rest of the year the sleepers tend to be in the rear. This New Years, I was on the CL in two directions, the sleepers were in the front both times. Now, I have no idea why. But it's just a trend I noticed over the past few years.

Edit: Looks like someone just mentioned it above me and I missed it. But, still not sure for the reasoning of it!


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## Ryan (May 21, 2015)

The only trains this applies to are the LD trains that originate in New York, so the Capital Limited and all of the other trains aren't impacted.

I detailed the reasoning for it above.


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## Ryan (May 21, 2015)

Thirdrail7 said:


> It looks as though the ol' flip flop is set to occur on the eastern long haul trains. Once again, coaches are going to the rear.


That was fast, today's 97 had them back up front already (and 65 extra bags in the back).

I no count so good.


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## NYC_1968 (May 21, 2015)

Going on the Lake Shore Limited out of NYC tomorrow. I would prefer the sleepers were in the back - especially given the news of this derailment. I'm a frequent Amtrak rider, but skittish now that I am taking a 3 year old in a sleeper. He's going in the top bunk. I'm a little worried. It seems cars in the back are safer....


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## Ryan (May 21, 2015)

Be careful drawing conclusions from a single data point.

Either way, LSL sleepers out of NYP are always on the rear.


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## Ryan (May 21, 2015)

Based on pictures on FB, 91 got flipped today as well.


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## KmH (May 21, 2015)

Note that the Coast Starlight normally has the sleepers at the front, the Pacific Parlour Car (PPC), the dining car, the SSL, and then the coaches bringing up the rear.

Sleeper pax are supposed to have exclusive access to the PPC (with it's Wi-Fi and other special features) which is why it is behind the sleepers and in front of the dining car.

With the coach cars bring at the rear of the consist Coast Starlight coach pax get access to the railfan window.


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## Thirdrail7 (May 22, 2015)

Ryan said:


> Be careful drawing conclusions from a single data point.
> 
> *Either way, LSL sleepers out of NYP are always on the rear.*



Ooooh Ryan! It's your turn to



You're a day late, but you'll have the baggage car between the sleepers and the power.

BTW, an ADA requirement did have a part in keeping the sleepers in the rear.


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## chakk (May 22, 2015)

The car on amtk 188 suffering the most damage (and all of the fatalities?) was the one that wrapped itself around a catenary pole. That just as easily could have been one of the other cars , or even the engine. It was simply the (bad) luck of the draw that it was the first passenger car behind the engine in this case.


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## Ryan (May 22, 2015)

I really need to learn to stop making absolute statements, because there are always exceptions. I presume they're doing something differently because of the track work at ALB and not splitting the train?

I'd be curious to hear more about how the ADA figures in and how they've overcome it. I'm aware of the need to put the H room next to the diner for ADA reasons, but you can accomplish that with the sleepers on either end, right?


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## Zephyr (May 22, 2015)

jis said:


> It is now called the 530/630 car. Not 533/633 car!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


Not true. I'm booked on the 533 car for a trip next week.


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## John Bobinyec (May 22, 2015)

Currently, the Silver Star usually has the bedrooms and bags on the rear, but 92(21) is reversed, with the bags and bedrooms up front.

jb


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## jis (May 22, 2015)

Ryan said:


> The only trains this applies to are the LD trains that originate in New York, so the *Capital Limited* and all of the other trains aren't impacted.
> 
> I detailed the reasoning for it above.


"Capital Limited" Ryan?  Just couldn't resist


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## Shanghai (May 22, 2015)

The sleeper cars have been at the rear on the Silver Meteor

in January, February, April & May.


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## Larry H. (May 22, 2015)

All the trains I rode pre Amtrak had the sleeper on the rear. Personally I preferred that as I liked seeing the train snaking around curves ahead of us. I recall that the Pullman Cars had a little sign where the bed rooms jogged to the roomettes. The Sign read "There hasn't been a death in a pullman car in eight years". I attributed much of that to being on the rear where I always felt safer.


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## Ryan (May 22, 2015)

jis said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > The only trains this applies to are the LD trains that originate in New York, so the *Capital Limited* and all of the other trains aren't impacted.
> ...


Nobody's perfect.


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## R30A (May 22, 2015)

Today I noticed 2 consists in Sunnyside with Sleepers on front. First time in over a year that I have seen anything but the Cardinal setup that way.


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## kneemeister (May 22, 2015)

Zephyr said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > It is now called the 530/630 car. Not 533/633 car!
> ...


And I have Roomette 10 in 533 tomorrow


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## kneemeister (May 22, 2015)

jis said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > The only trains this applies to are the LD trains that originate in New York, so the *Capital Limited* and all of the other trains aren't impacted.
> ...


Well all of Amtrak is Capital Limited, so they might as well rename the train


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## Guest (May 23, 2015)

Shanghai said:


> The sleeper cars have been at the rear on the Silver Meteor
> 
> in January, February, April & May.


Just to mention, I have road the Silvers many times in the winter, with the sleepers up front. Of course, this was a few years ago (10?).


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## Mystic River Dragon (May 23, 2015)

I saw 97 in TRE yesterday. It had the following consist:

AEM-7 no. 923, new baggage car, three sleepers, Heritage dining car, café car, some coaches, and five new baggage cars at the end. (I forgot to count the coaches because I was busy counting the baggage cars, but someone down there in Florida will know how many there are on there today.)

I see 97 a lot at TRE because it comes into the station around the same time as my commuter train, and I can't remember the last time I saw the sleepers in the front. That, plus all those baggage cars, seemed like an interesting enough consist to post here.


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## Alex (May 24, 2015)

I took the Crescent home tonight from WAS to CVS. The sleepers were definitely up front, as we needed to walk down to the end of the train to board our coach, which was the next to last car.


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## Tennessee Traveler (May 25, 2015)

California Zephyr is now running its summer consist with three sleepers and three coaches. The sleepers following the dining car x31, x32, and last x33. x33 is the added sleeper and is located as the last car of the train with private cars following the x33 car. I was originally booked for the 532 car roomette 002 for Thurs May28 but upgraded today to Bedroom D in car 533 from CHI to GSC(Glenwood Springs) since the bedroom price was lowered to $471. Interestingly, the bedroom price is now back up over $1100 just a couple hours after I upgraded.

THANK YOU AMSNAG!


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## Paul CHI (May 26, 2015)

I love riding the sleeper when it's on the rear.


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## jis (May 26, 2015)

I saw the Coast Starlight and the California Zephyr at Emeryville yesterday. One had its Sleepers in the front and the other in the back, so there


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## Tennessee Traveler (May 26, 2015)

jis said:


> I saw the Coast Starlight and the California Zephyr at Emeryville yesterday. One had its Sleepers in the front and the other in the back, so there


Coast Starlight are always at the front and California Zephyr usually on the rear. Not sure is that is a "so there". Only discrepancy is when CZ sleepers during "slow season" get put on the front as they were in early January 2015. Bur they were back at the rear when I rode last week of January.


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## mflsjhs (May 26, 2015)

Been on a 10 day trip:

On 5/18 LSL49. All 3 sleepers (4911,4912,4920) were all the way in the back with no baggage behind them due to ALB-BOS service disruption

EB8 had sleepers upfront behind transdorm

CS11 had sleepers upfront (ride was horrible on 1130, roughest ever on sleeper train)

CZ6 had 3 sleepers behind the diner 0633 all the way in the back had a very surprisingly smooth ride. Smoothest of the trip so far even being the last car

LSL48 sounds like all 3 sleepers will be in front


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## Cina (May 26, 2015)

I didn't realize sleepers were on the front on the CS. Any particular reason for this? Is it sleepers-PPC-diner-SSL-coaches? I'll be on it in a couple weeks!


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## Ryan (May 26, 2015)

That's the correct order. Most Superliner-equipped trains run sleeper first.


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## Cina (May 26, 2015)

So the CZ is the odd one out (probably because they add another sleeper at Denver?) Didn't know that!


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## Tennessee Traveler (May 26, 2015)

Cina said:


> So the CZ is the odd one out (probably because they add another sleeper at Denver?) Didn't know that!


The extra sleeper for at least two years has run the full journey Chicago to Emeryville and return. Also the sleepers stay at the end of the train when there are only two sleepers. So there is no longer adding and subtracting sleepers in Denver.


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## Cina (May 26, 2015)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> Cina said:
> 
> 
> > The extra sleeper for at least two years has run the full journey Chicago to Emeryville and return. Also the sleepers stay at the end of the train when there are only two sleepers. So there is no longer adding and subtracting sleepers in Denver.
> ...


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## mflsjhs (May 26, 2015)

Cina said:


> I didn't realize sleepers were on the front on the CS. Any particular reason for this? Is it sleepers-PPC-diner-SSL-coaches? I'll be on it in a couple weeks!


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## mflsjhs (May 26, 2015)

Yes. Baggage , trans dorm , 3 sleepers, PPC, Diner SSL 3-4 coaches on Starlight


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## mflsjhs (May 26, 2015)

48 tonight is engines ,Viewliner Baggage, 4820, 4812, 4811, Viewliner Diner, cafe then coaches


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## jis (May 27, 2015)

Maybe Amtrak does all this shuffling mainly for the entertainment of AU brainiacs, to help keep them off the streets and out of trouble 

So is LSL going to have a split Boston section in the joint train west of Albany when the Boston section starts splitting at Albany again? Or is the split of the Boston section already happening again in Albany instead of the separate shuttle? Running the Boston section split between front and back of the joint train certainly would make the shunting at Albany more interesting.


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## Thirdrail7 (May 27, 2015)

jis said:


> Maybe Amtrak does all this shuffling mainly for the entertainment of AU brainiacs, to help keep them off the streets and out of trouble
> 
> So is LSL going to have a split Boston section in the joint train west of Albany when the Boston section starts splitting at Albany again? Or is the split of the Boston section already happening again in Albany instead of the separate shuttle? Running the Boston section split between front and back of the joint train certainly would make the shunting at Albany more interesting.


It can work as a three move drill in ALB if you run 448/449 backwards or they can flip flop it back when 449/448 is restored but that would cause trouble for SSYD with their ADA compliance/equipment swapping dilemma (proper pointing).

As previously indicated,it is not an issue for now. However, I trust

 h34r:


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## MattW (May 31, 2015)

I saw #20 tonight just outside of ATL in its "new" (since the Viewbags came online anyways) configuration with the sleepers up front. HUGE DIFFERENCE! Even the Phase-III Viewbag didn't stand out nearly so badly with it up front right behind the locomotives. Somehow a train just looks right when the bigger cars are up front, and having less disruption in the lines helped even more!


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 12, 2016)

The ol' Eastern Fleet Flip Flop is apparently in progress. The sleepers and bags are going to the rear while the coaches are going to the front. The vestibules should point to the rear on the coaches.

.


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## DesertRat (Dec 12, 2016)

Not sure if anyone else said this. On the SWC I always find the sleepers up front.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 13, 2016)

Standard practice on all Superliner trains is sleepers front and has been for quite awhile. The exception in the recent past has been the California Zephyr, not sure what the practice is on that train these days.

Of course, when a train is split into sections (the Empire Builder and Sunset/Texas Eagle), they put the sleepers of one section (Portland, Chicago)on the rear to avoid having coach passengers walk through the sleepers.


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