# VIA Rail Canadian's Schedule



## Ben (Aug 25, 2014)

The 3-night journey became 4 nights in late 2008. Are there any plans to revert back to 3 nights? Seems like a really slow schedule got much slower back then, and the current schedule doesn't really provide a "service," just a slow excursion train.


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## neroden (Aug 25, 2014)

No such plans, and service has been reduced to two days a week in winter. The Canadian does not, in fact, provide a transportation service any more. It is just a cruise train. VIA is now marketing it primarily to Chinese and other foreign tourists. Does that answer your questions?


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## Ben (Aug 25, 2014)

neroden said:


> No such plans, and service has been reduced to two days a week in winter. The Canadian does not, in fact, provide a transportation service any more. It is just a cruise train. VIA is now marketing it primarily to Chinese and other foreign tourists. Does that answer your questions?


Yes, thank you.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 25, 2014)

Even with the extra night, because of CN Freight Traffic, and the Long Layover in Winnipeg to change the Crew, the Canadian can still be 6-12 Hours late into Toronto and Vancouver!

So yes,its basically a Land Cruise Train for Wealthy Tourists but when the 50% off and Express Fares are on ( mostly Nov- May with Christmas/New Years blacked out) its a Bucket List Trip!


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## chakk (Aug 26, 2014)

And a very worthwhile bucket trip during those off-season months, I would add. Even given that my eastbound Canadian was 9 hrs late into Toronto.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## NS VIA Fan (Aug 26, 2014)

neroden said:


> No such plans......


Source? 



neroden said:


> ........The Canadian does not, in fact, provide a transportation service any more........


Sure it’s a tourist train but even on the twice weekly winter schedule it’s still performing a transportation service.

On a trip last winter, travelling through the bush in northern Ontario, the train was occasionally met by a snowmobile at a milepost seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Someone will be getting on or off or picking up supplies from the baggage car. Yes the Canadian sill provides an essential service to these isolated points and First Nation communities!

I had dinner with a businessman who regularly rides the Canadian between Toronto and Winnipeg. He takes the Saturday evening departure for a Monday AM arrival into Winnipeg. Says it gives him a day to relax and prepare for meetings. 

We also had several oil-sands workers aboard into Edmonton where they made bus connections onto Fort McMurray.

On the last night of my trip the first week of December, we had a full load out of Jasper and again at dinner, I was sitting with ordinary Canadians not tourists, using the train for basic transportation. They were from Kamloops and had made a round-trip to Edmonton instead of the treacherous winter drive along the Yellowhead Highway.

[SIZE=11pt]There were certainly plenty of ordinary Canadians on that trip in December…..so extrapolate those numbers into the summer season and they are probably still there……just harder to spot among the tourists who are riding at that time of the year.[/SIZE]


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## acelafan (Aug 26, 2014)

My dad was on a group backcountry canoe trip last week near Temagami Provincial Park I believe it's called. They took the Canadian to and from the middle of nowhere using a flag stop. He said the train was only 5 hours late, but everyone was really pleasant and no bad ccustomer service. The work gang came down the tracks a few hours before the train arrived and gave them a status update of its arrival. He said the 22 car consist was really magnificent, making a flag stop for 8 tired canoeists literally in the middle of nowhere, and they were so happy to get on that train.

That's why I love trains, whether they run late or not. They have a real sense of connecting people in various ways and provide a needed transportation service to some.

It's on my bucket list, too.


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## jis (Aug 26, 2014)

Yeah, in parts of its journey the Canadian is somewhat like the Alaska Railroad. Remember that a very essential service is provided by the weekly Aurora and Hurricane Turn during the winter months by Alaska Railroad too. Just because something runs only twice a week does not mean it does not provide essential service.


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## Anderson (Aug 26, 2014)

Let's also not forget that there were a number of "less than daily" essential service trains over the years, where demand was more than a little thin but the need was there. With a real lack of alternatives, people _would_ adjust their trip schedules to match the train schedules.


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## Brian C Doutaz (Aug 26, 2014)

What most people seem to forget or miss is that the Canadian is beholden to CN Rail because it is on their rails that we ride - the same would hold true were they to use the CP's tracks through Kenora and Calgary. In fact, you will see many stories of the Canadian being late into various points along the way - significantly late - but the train is generally within an hour or two (even in the dark, cold, wind blown days of winter) into Toronto or Vancouver. If you want to be on time, I suggest you try Air Canada (oops, that should more likely read Westjet!).

The objective on the train is to meet PEOPLE (Canadian or foreign) and to enjoy the trip as well as to experiece the dimensions of Canada. As noted in the comments, it will stop in the MOST remote of places to pick up someone in a canoe or snowmobile but you will not see that beside the Trans Canada Highway or on a Greyhound bus. The people you can meet on the Canadian is endless if you will only open your eyes and quit kvetching about being "late".

The food is great, the staff are wonderful and informative and the sleeping arrangements (other than in coach) are great. Many Americans swear off the long distance Amtrak trains after travelling on the Canadian; Amtrak cannot hold a candle to the service, comfort, food or amenities on board the Canadian (other than for connectivity which is REALLY spotty other than for at the main stations (Capreol, Hornepayne, Armstrong, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Jasper as you move west). As much as I have complained to Rogers and Bell as well as Telus, thier stock response is "It is a big country and not everyone has local cell service".

I take the train from Toronto to Vancouver once a year at the end of a business trip. The first two days are spent in organization from the previous week and the next two days are spent in utter relaxation with a book and a view to die for. Coffee and snacks are ALWAYS available and the people (staff and customers) are a wonder. And all the better for the non-Candians on the Canadian who DO appreciate what Canada and the Canadian have to offer. And, YES, it DOES provide a transpotration servive - I fly Air Canada business class east and then experience the last vestige of FIRST CLASS travel on the return (and frequently my flights into YYZ are one to three hours late, so there!!!).


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 26, 2014)

AFAIK, the Canadian's current four-night schedule is not actually slower than the old three-night schedule because the times used to be "flipped" as in like mornings and evenings.

Since Brian mentioned Greyhound I would like to point out that Greyhound Canada does often carry medical supplies and provides essential transportation to many remote Canadian communities. These services lose money and get direct subsides but Greyhound is obliged to operate them because, in exchange, they get a regulated monopoly on most routes.

If you look at Greyhound Canada's System Timetable, you will find a striking similarity to VIA Rail timetables in that they make many, many tiny flag stops between large cities, and yes, they do carry medical supplies up to Whitehorse and Thompson. Passengers at these flag stops are able to buy tickets directly from the driver at boarding, but with the new anti-overbooking booking system, yeah, it's not going to be easy.

If you're friendly and not arrogant, you can meet people on planes, trains, or buses, it doesn't matter, it depends on you to meet people.

I know the old CP Canadian is dead, but you can still ride a Greyhound along basically the same route: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsdjie/sets/72157629167720763. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsdjie/sets/72157629230341102/.

And let us not forget the Icefields Parkway which is serviced by Brewster: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsdjie/sets/72157629507771115/.

I'm a supporter of VIA Rail too and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm just saying, you know, you don't have to join the 200,000 Greyhound Haters just because you are a VIA Rail fan. And really, I'm being hated and spammed by Greyhound haters right now simply because I voiced a few lines of reason on YouTube. Didn't even go "foaming"! All this hate, not cool! People hate VIA Rail, people hate Amtrak, people hate Greyhound, people hate this hate that, and that's why no mode of transport is doing great right now.


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## Brian C Doutaz (Aug 27, 2014)

int taken, Mr. Hardcore, and well stated.


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## neroden (Aug 29, 2014)

Well, OK, I'll agree that for people out in the extreme backwoods, even a weekly service can be a real transportation service.

For everyone else, it isn't. Frequency matters. The Canadian has been reduced in frequency below the point where it's usable for anything where there are ANY alternatives. With twice-a-week service, *hiking* is probably faster in a number of cases.

I believe Greyhound Canada still runs daily service on all its routes.


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## chakk (Aug 29, 2014)

Anderson said:


> Let's also not forget that there were a number of "less than daily" essential service trains over the years, where demand was more than a little thin but the need was there. With a real lack of alternatives, people _would_ adjust their trip schedules to match the train schedules.


Most of the new streamlined passenger trains in the 1930s and 40s ran less than daily service for many years. And with WWII placing restrictions on the construction of new passenger cars, many of those trains did not get to daily service until the late 40s, when they could finally purchase enough equipment to support a daily service.


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## rrdude (Aug 29, 2014)

Yep, it is a cruise train that DOES perform as a transportation entity too. Shortly I will begin selling my collection of Lionel trains, and putting the bucks into a "Ride the Canadian in First Class Fund".

I've toted crates and crates of these damn toy trains from state to state, my kids are all in HS, and the "train room" in our house has been nothing more than storage for 16 years.

I'm not gonna "play with them" or set up a train garden when I retire, so OUT THEY GO.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 30, 2014)

chakk said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Let's also not forget that there were a number of "less than daily" essential service trains over the years, where demand was more than a little thin but the need was there. With a real lack of alternatives, people _would_ adjust their trip schedules to match the train schedules.
> ...


Yeah but those streamlines were generally secondary, tertiary, or more to non streamlines that ran, often with sleepers and diners, along that route daily.


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## railiner (Aug 30, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > Anderson said:
> ...


Good point!

Some examples: The City of San Francisco and the Overland Limited; The City of Miami and The Seminole; The Super Chief and The Chief....

In the City of Miami's case, it was a bit different, as it did not become a daily train, but instead "pooled" its end point schedule with the South Wind, and the Dixie Flagler for many years.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 30, 2014)

neroden said:


> Well, OK, I'll agree that for people out in the extreme backwoods, even a weekly service can be a real transportation service.
> 
> For everyone else, it isn't. Frequency matters. The Canadian has been reduced in frequency below the point where it's usable for anything where there are ANY alternatives. With twice-a-week service, *hiking* is probably faster in a number of cases.
> 
> I believe Greyhound Canada still runs daily service on all its routes.


The bus to Whitehorse only runs thrice weekly though. On the other days it terminates at Fort Nelson and it doesn't run at all on Sunday northbound Monday southbound. The Flin Flon runs daily and the Thompson runs twice daily except once-daily Saturday.

To be fair, VIA Rail isn't that bad at all when you look at capacity per week. Sure, it doesn't run daily, but it carries a lot of people when it does run.

Unfortunately, the Harper government let the Hay River bus die even though they could have bought it or subsidized it. Now everyone must fly or drive a long time through the woods. This is basically the bus equivalent of the government letting rail service die. This apparent pissing contest between VIA Rail/Greyhound and the government isn't going anywhere. At least I thought this government would've supposed corporations enough to give Greyhound a hand instead of letting the bus die after the train already died.


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## Ben (Sep 5, 2014)

I read that VIA has "Train Services Agreements" with freight RRs such as CN. What are in those agreements? Do they have outlines for OTP and priority operations?


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## jis (Sep 5, 2014)

They probably say something like "We will run your trains as and when it is convenient for us"


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## Gord (Sep 10, 2014)

Ben said:


> The 3-night journey became 4 nights in late 2008. Are there any plans to revert back to 3 nights? Seems like a really slow schedule got much slower back then, and the current schedule doesn't really provide a "service," just a slow excursion train.


I ride The Canadian, Toronto to Edmonton and back 2-3 times yearly for business always in a roomette, now called cabin for one. I always run into other people using it for transportation and let's not forget many of us don't like flying cattle cars, buses or have medical conditions which make other modes unsuitable.

Coach fares are pretty reasonable and there are express deals and 50% off sales offered fairly frequently so I don't buy the "only a land cruise for the rich", argument.

There were people commuting from Saskatoon to Winnipeg, Edmonton to Saskatoon and so on. I've run in to teachers, oil workers, people in the hospitality business, aboriginal Canadians, writers. There are of course many tourists as well as railfans and retired railroaders using passes. Active railroaders also use it to get to remote division points and maintenance centres, too.

Each time I've taken it, we were constantly meeting or overtaking CN container, oil, general freight or grain trains. Some of these trains were over 10,000 feet. It seemed we had a meet every half hour on average. The railways here and in the US are handling massive amounts of freight, often on single track. I have generally found CN dispatching to be pretty good with minimal time at waits. Really bad winter weather can screw things up, of course.

I don't see any reduction in the padded schedule unless fuel prices drop or freight traffic declines. Neither is likely.


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