# Texas Eagle Consist



## ScottC4746 (Nov 23, 2009)

I was thinking, since TE and SL link up for the journey between SAS and LAX, what is the TE consist between CHI-SAS and from SAS-LAX.

I took SL from NOL-LAX this summer and we were Baggage, Sleeper, Sleeper, Diner, Lounge, Coach, Coach Coach.

Would we then be Baggage X2, Sleeper X2, Diner X2, lounge X2, Coach X6?


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## saxman (Nov 23, 2009)

The consist for the Eagle is Dorm, Sleeper, Diner, Lounge, Coach, Coach, Coach. In San Antonio they take off the last coach and the sleeper and tack them on to the back of the SL. So your SL consist west of SAS is Bag, Dorm, Sleeper, Diner, Lounge, Coach, Coach, Coach(from TE), Sleeper(from TE).

They don't put then entire Texas Eagle consist onto the Sunset Limited. Only two cars.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 23, 2009)

ScottC4746 said:


> I was thinking, since TE and SL link up for the journey between SAS and LAX, what is the TE consist between CHI-SAS and from SAS-LAX.I took SL from NOL-LAX this summer and we were Baggage, Sleeper, Sleeper, Diner, Lounge, Coach, Coach Coach.
> 
> Would we then be Baggage X2, Sleeper X2, Diner X2, lounge X2, Coach X6?


The Eagle #21/#421 from CHI-SAS drops a sleeper and coach in SAS which is hooked to the Sunset Ltd. #1 three days a week (Tue/Thurs/Sat) for the run to LAX> The Eagle has no baggage car, it usually runs the following consist: 1 engine/trans-dorm/sleeper/ccc/ssl/2-3 coaches depending on the CHI-STL #321 train. Occasionaly the ssl is dropped and it carries 2 CCCs which really sucks! Hope this helps out!


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## had8ley (Nov 23, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Occasionaly the ssl is dropped and it carries 2 CCCs which really sucks! Hope this helps out!


Jim;

I know the CCC's are a complete waste of money but having the SSL or another CCC keeps your Eagle from flying to NOL. You don't want to ride from Memphis south after the train set has returned from San Antonio after starting out of NOL. I think Chicago coach cleaners have been on strike every time I used to ride the City southbound after it came up from your way as the Eagle.


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## henryj (Nov 23, 2009)

What is the normal consist on the days the through cars for the Sunset Limited are not carried?


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2009)

henryj said:


> What is the normal consist on the days the through cars for the Sunset Limited are not carried?


The same - but with 1 less coach and 1 less sleeper.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 23, 2009)

had8ley said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Occasionaly the ssl is dropped and it carries 2 CCCs which really sucks! Hope this helps out!
> ...


You are correct sir, I can remember being kicked out of the car I was in on #22 before arrival in CHI so it could be cleaned/prepped and turned for the run to NOL as the City! Boarding later ,ON THE SAME CAR, it hadnt been touched, the same trash was just where it was, the bathrooms were scummy and thats when I started noticing that the CHI cleaners didnt quiet do the job that other crews did @ other bases! Except for the 3 days a week trains (Card and Sunsets), the CCCs are my unfavorite thing about Amtrak trains, they are worthless as diners and lounges, half a l,oaf is not better than none!


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## GG-1 (Nov 23, 2009)

saxman said:


> They don't put then entire Texas Eagle consist onto the Sunset Limited. Only two cars.


And that walk to breakfast the next morning is l_o_n_g.

Aloha


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2009)

GG-1 said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > They don't put then entire Texas Eagle consist onto the Sunset Limited. Only two cars.
> ...


I had just the opposite. I took the T/E from LAX - and up to SAS, it was the very last car. When I woke up (late - just as it started moving out of SAS), the diner was a few feet from my room (as I was in room #10)!


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## henryj (Nov 23, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > What is the normal consist on the days the through cars for the Sunset Limited are not carried?
> ...


It's still not clear to me. Jim Hudson posted this: The Eagle has no baggage car, it usually runs the following consist: 1 engine/trans-dorm/sleeper/ccc/ssl/2-3 coaches depending on the CHI-STL #321 train. Occasionaly the ssl is dropped and it carries 2 CCCs which really sucks! Hope this helps out!

So on the other days it is a five car train, dorm/ccc/ssl/coach/coach? Is that how you understand it? Or, are you saying it usually has a dorm and a sleeper and is a six car train? So on LAX days then it would be 7 cars? or 8 cars?. One dorm and one sleeper OR one dorm and two sleepers? I am confused.


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## saxman (Nov 23, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > What is the normal consist on the days the through cars for the Sunset Limited are not carried?
> ...


Actually now the Texas Eagle consist it the exact same everyday. Even on days with the through cars operating. They just somehow get the sleeper out from the middle of the consist and put it on the Eagle.


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## henryj (Nov 23, 2009)

saxman said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


Sorry to be such a pest, but I assume the consist arriving in SAS in the evening is the one departing north the next morning. The LAX sleeper arrives in SAS on MoWeFr for a departure on the SSL on TuThSa. So the Eagle consist leaving the next morning to go north needs a sleeper from the SSL on TuThSa, but #2 only arrives on MoThSa late at night so the LAX sleeper goes north on TuFrSu. If the consists are always the same for the Eagle, where does it get that sleeper to go north on ThSa????? Obviously I am still confused.

And to make it more confusing, we are saying the Eagle consist arriving in Chicago leaves the same day south on the CONO and I assume the Eagle consist leaving south is then the CONO that arrived that morning. Is the CONO consist the same 6 car consist as the Eagle, that is dorm/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach? It would seem that the LAX Eagle three times a week would have to be dorm/sleeper/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach/coach, otherwise the northbound Eagle would be short a sleeper on some days.


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## had8ley (Nov 23, 2009)

henryj said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


The Eagle and the City rarely share the same consist as in the past. But who knows...if the lounge comes off the Eagle it'll be a slam dunk that a 9 a.m. arrival of the City will be well suited for a p.m. departure of the southbound Eagle and vice-versa.


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## abcnews (Nov 23, 2009)

Quick question about the TE.... How far can you travel on the Texas Eagle - out of Chicago, and still remain in the same zone as the mid-west? *regarding Amtrak Guest Reward Roomette Award for two people.

Example: Toledo, OH / via Chicago, to ??? - and remain in just one zone.

Thanks,

Mike


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## abcnews (Nov 23, 2009)

Sorry to be a pest... What is a CCC? (I assume a club/combo diner?). I guess SSI is short for Sightseer.

Thanks!


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 23, 2009)

abcnews said:


> Quick question about the TE.... How far can you travel on the Texas Eagle - out of Chicago, and still remain in the same zone as the mid-west? *regarding Amtrak Guest Reward Roomette Award for two people.
> Example: Toledo, OH / via Chicago, to ??? - and remain in just one zone.
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


You can ride from CHI-ELP (El Paso) which is the border between zones. El Paso is 600 miles west of San Antonio so its a fairly long ride through admittedly not much scenery (ie desert mostly west of SAs)!If you go farther west youre into a second zone for AGR award trip! The Eagle has a sleeper and coach cut out in SAS and it is hooked to the Sunset Ltd., stays overnight and leaves in the early AM for El Paso!(SL #1/#421)


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 23, 2009)

abcnews said:


> Sorry to be a pest... What is a CCC? (I assume a club/combo diner?). I guess SSI is short for Sightseer.
> Thanks!


A CCC is a combo diner/lounge which means one side has six tables by the snack bar, also used as a lounge on the CONO, and the other is sort of a diner with the infamous three person mafia seats. Everyone thinks it was a poor idea, theyd be great on the PDX-SPK section of the EB since there is no diner there, that would allow the SightSeer Lounge to be on the longer SEA-SPK section of the EB. The CONO has one of these with no sightseer lounge, sometimes the Eagle has two when no sightseer lounge is available giving it the worst of both worlds!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 23, 2009)

The CCCs would also be well applied to proposed/re-proposed trains like the Desert Wind or Pioneer which, like the EB would split off of the CZ-- without enough SSLs in the pool, and not enough pax to demand a fully staffed diner, you could give a full-service diner and a snack bar/lounge.


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## abcnews (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for the help! Is a CCC a Superliner car?


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## amtrakwolverine (Nov 24, 2009)

yes the TE only uses superliners.


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## henryj (Nov 24, 2009)

But still no one has answered the initial question or I guess my version of it. What is the consist on the three days it carries the LAX sleepers and what is the consist on the other days?????????????

I assume the consist arriving in SAS in the evening is the one departing north the next morning. The LAX sleeper arrives in SAS on MoWeFr for a departure on the SSL on TuThSa. So the Eagle consist leaving the next morning to go north needs a sleeper from the SSL on TuThSa, but #2 only arrives on MoThSa late at night so the LAX sleeper goes north on TuFrSu. If the consists are always the same for the Eagle, where does it get that sleeper to go north on ThSa????? It looks to me that on LAX days the train must carry an extra sleeper and coach for all this to work.

It would seem that the LAX Eagle three times a week would have to be dorm/sleeper/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach/coach, otherwise the northbound Eagle would be short a sleeper and coach on some days. The consist on non LAX days would then be dorm/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach. Right? The point of the question is to determine if the Eagle only carries a trans dorm on non LAX days using the xtra rooms for passengers OR does it carry the trans dorm plus a sleeper on those days. I know some of you 'smart guys' out there know the answer. Thanks in advance for the information.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 24, 2009)

henryj said:


> But still no one has answered the initial question or I guess my version of it. What is the consist on the three days it carries the LAX sleepers and what is the consist on the other days?????????????
> I assume the consist arriving in SAS in the evening is the one departing north the next morning. The LAX sleeper arrives in SAS on MoWeFr for a departure on the SSL on TuThSa. So the Eagle consist leaving the next morning to go north needs a sleeper from the SSL on TuThSa, but #2 only arrives on MoThSa late at night so the LAX sleeper goes north on TuFrSu. If the consists are always the same for the Eagle, where does it get that sleeper to go north on ThSa????? It looks to me that on LAX days the train must carry an extra sleeper and coach for all this to work.
> 
> It would seem that the LAX Eagle three times a week would have to be dorm/sleeper/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach/coach, otherwise the northbound Eagle would be short a sleeper and coach on some days. The consist on non LAX days would then be dorm/sleeper/ccc/ssl/coach/coach. Right? The point of the question is to determine if the Eagle only carries a trans dorm on non LAX days using the xtra rooms for passengers OR does it carry the trans dorm plus a sleeper on those days. I know some of you 'smart guys' out there know the answer. Thanks in advance for the information.


If you think about it Henry (do the math as GW once said even though he couldn't! :lol: ): LAX-SAS SSL#2/#422 Lvs. Wed-Fri-Sun Arr: Thur-Sat-Mon

Consist: engine(s)/trans dorm/sleeper/diner/ssl/coach/coach/coach/sleeper Cut out: coach/sleeper for TE #22/#422, train continues to NOL on the new schedule @ 11:55PM Thur-Sat-Mon. as Sunset Ltd. #2

CHI-SAS TE#21/#421 Lvs. Mo-Wed-Fri Arr: Tu-Thur-Sat Consist: engine(s)/trans dorm/sleeper/sleeper/CCC/ssl or 2nd CCC :angry: /coach/coach/coach

Cut out: coach/sleeper for SSL#1/#421, train spends night in SAS, returns in the AM to CHI as TE #22/#422 Wed-Fri-Sun with the cut out coach and sleeper from #2/#422. On the days that the SUnsets in San Antonio dont run the Eage has its regular consist as Chris said, the Eagle doesnt carry a baggage car nor a regular diner (well, once in a while it will but usually the CCC). Hope this is clear, it can be confusing! :blink:


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## henryj (Nov 24, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> If you think about it Henry (do the math as GW once said even though he couldn't! :lol: ): LAX-SAS SSL#2/#422 Lvs. Wed-Fri-Sun Arr: Thur-Sat-MonConsist: engine(s)/trans dorm/sleeper/diner/ssl/coach/coach/coach/sleeper Cut out: coach/sleeper for TE #22/#422, train continues to NOL on the new schedule @ 11:55PM Thur-Sat-Mon. as Sunset Ltd. #2
> 
> CHI-SAS TE#21/#421 Lvs. Mo-Wed-Fri Arr: Tu-Thur-Sat Consist: engine(s)/trans dorm/sleeper/sleeper/CCC/ssl or 2nd CCC :angry: /coach/coach/coach
> 
> Cut out: coach/sleeper for SSL#1/#421, train spends night in SAS, returns in the AM to CHI as TE #22/#422 Wed-Fri-Sun with the cut out coach and sleeper from #2/#422. On the days that the SUnsets in San Antonio dont run the Eage has its regular consist as Chris said, the Eagle doesnt carry a baggage car nor a regular diner (well, once in a while it will but usually the CCC). Hope this is clear, it can be confusing! :blink:


Thanks Jim. I pretty much know the SSL consist, it was just the Eagle I was uncertain of. I was trying to count the equipment available for the new daily service next April. With the Eagle's four sets and the Sunsets four sets plus the six cars used for the through Chi to LAX service three times a week I get something like 19 coaches, 11 sleepers, 8 trans dorms, 8 lounge and 8 diner/ccc's. The daily service will take seven sets between LAX and CHI plus the coach trains east of SAS. So a typical daily train will look something like 2 coaches, 1 sleeper, 1 trans dorm, 1 diner or ccc and 1 lounge. That would leave the daily coach trains with two coaches each plus some sort of food car. Left over would be one coach and four sleepers. They could add a sleeper at SAS to pick up the passengers coming over from NOL and HOU, that would use up the four extra sleepers. It ends up doubling the coach capacity between NOL and SAS and gives the train west of SAS about a 50% increase in capacity. The real shortage would be in motive power. With the Eagle only having a single unit on each train and the Sunset having two you only have 12 in the pool. The Coach trains take at least two. The Eagle as far as SAS would still need 4. They could add an engine in SAS for the trip west which would take four more. That would leave two spares. They could put those on the coach trains to use the way the Heartland Flyer runs, with one on each end maybe. Or just keep them in reserve in SAS and Fort Worth as backups. If this actually transpires it should be interesting to see how they handle it all.


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## RandyJay (Nov 24, 2009)

There's normally a spare coach and sleeper in SAS to maintain the consist for the NB Eagle on those days when it doesn't get them from the SSL. For a relatively small station, SAS can be an interesting place for switching action; especially on Mon nights / Tuesday mornings (1, 2, 21, 22 all happening). And it's not that uncommon for 21 and 2 to arrive at nearly the same time!


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## saxman (Nov 24, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > But still no one has answered the initial question or I guess my version of it. What is the consist on the three days it carries the LAX sleepers and what is the consist on the other days?????????????
> ...


I'm still telling ya that the Eagle has the EXACT same consist every single day. Even on days when it runs through to LAX, there is no extra sleeper. #21 and #421 pax are put in the same sleeper. I do think there is a spare sleeper in SAS for the days that the Northbound Eagle needs sleeper.


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## AlanB (Nov 24, 2009)

saxman said:


> #21 and #421 pax are put in the same sleeper.


That cannot happen. In fact the entire reason that there is trains 21 & 421, as well as similar situations with the Builder and the LSL, is that ARROW cannot deal with passengers properly when the train splits/combines if they don't use seperate numbers. If the cars that run through to LA were called train #21, instead of #421, then ARROW would sell any passenger any seat or room on the entire train to LA, even though the entire train doesn't go to LA.

But if Amtrak tells ARROW that a car is for train #21, then ARROW will not sell any destination west of SAS in that car. You must have a ticket for train #421 to board that through car to LA. Now ARROW would still sell someone a ticket in that car for train #421 from say Chicago to Texarkanna, if they're willing to pay the premium, but that ticket will read train #421 and not train #21.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 24, 2009)

I believe Alan just explained the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle-- using Amtrak... :blink:


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

AlanB said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > #21 and #421 pax are put in the same sleeper.
> ...


Alan is correct here! As much as you know about the Eagles Chris there are a sleeper and coach just for train #421 from CHI-SAS the three times a week it runs. I just rode those trains four times in the past month and it was the same everytime! Im not sure about the extra sleeper being kept in SAS, Ive never seen one the many times Ive been in SAS, there is lots of switching back and forth there @ night as other posters have said and it does ternd to get busy when the trains are there @ the same time! :blink:


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Alan is correct here! As much as you know about the Eagles Chris there are a sleeper and coach just for train #421 from CHI-SAS the three times a week it runs. I just rode those trains four times in the past month and it was the same everytime! Im not sure about the extra sleeper being kept in SAS, Ive never seen one the many times Ive been in SAS, there is lots of switching back and forth there @ night as other posters have said and it does ternd to get busy when the trains are there @ the same time! :blink:


Yes, there have to be a couple of extra sleepers/coaches running around somewhere.

If train 21 always had 1 transition dorm (that stays with the TE consist) and 1 sleeper, then on the days 421 runs it would lose that standard sleeper and have to depart for Chicago the next morning with nothing but a transition--meaning no handicapped bedroom, family bedroom, or regular bedrooms on the train at all.

So, either the Eagle carries its transition dorm and TWO regular sleepers on 421 days, or it carries its transition dorm and one sleeper, cutting that one out for the Sunset and picking up an extra from SAS for 22's departure the next morning. I puzzled that out on paper in the office today, and with the tri-weekly scheduling, the swaps with the Sunset don't quite add up perfectly.

That would keep the consist the same--except that, at some point, SAS will need the 'extra' sleeper delivered back...which would be an extra car on the Eagle, no?


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## had8ley (Nov 25, 2009)

BlakeTyner said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Alan is correct here! As much as you know about the Eagles Chris there are a sleeper and coach just for train #421 from CHI-SAS the three times a week it runs. I just rode those trains four times in the past month and it was the same everytime! Im not sure about the extra sleeper being kept in SAS, Ive never seen one the many times Ive been in SAS, there is lots of switching back and forth there @ night as other posters have said and it does ternd to get busy when the trains are there @ the same time! :blink:
> ...


Yes, I've often wondered where this "phantom" sleeper comes from to protect the northbound #22. I know it doesn't come on the Sunset from either direction and haven't seen any extras on the southbound Eagle. Maybe Jim Hudson could fill in the missing parts of this puzzle?


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

had8ley said:


> Yes, I've often wondered where this "phantom" sleeper comes from to protect the northbound #22. I know it doesn't come on the Sunset from either direction and haven't seen any extras on the southbound Eagle. Maybe Jim Hudson could fill in the missing parts of this puzzle?


21 comes through here at about the time I'm getting on the road for work, so I don't see it all that often--I've been looking at youtube videos of the train to try to determine an answer to this, but so far I have no smoking gun. Lots of the youtube clips are from north of St. Louis, which throws things off a bit because of the extra coach between CHI and STL.

If Jim (or anyone else) doesn't have the answer, I can probably find out in a couple of weeks when I see Griff.


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## saxman (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm still not convinced there's an extra sleeper on #421 days. I see that train on a weekly basis, and in fact riding on it today. I know a few years ago, they use to carry an extra 421 sleeper, but not anymore. I always help passengers get to the right car and on 421 days they always put the California folks in the last car which is a coach. Even the passengers with sleepers with 421 printed on their tickets are actually in the 2120 sleeper. I'm going to ask today, how Arrow goes about booking 421 and 21 pax in a sleeper. I'm curious.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

saxman said:


> I'm still not convinced there's an extra sleeper on #421 days. I see that train on a weekly basis, and in fact riding on it today. I know a few years ago, they use to carry an extra 421 sleeper, but not anymore. I always help passengers get to the right car and on 421 days they always put the California folks in the last car which is a coach. Even the passengers with sleepers with 421 printed on their tickets are actually in the 2120 sleeper. I'm going to ask today, how Arrow goes about booking 421 and 21 pax in a sleeper. I'm curious.


Thanks Chris, Ill be the first to say that Im wrong since things change,sometimes daily, @ Amtrak! This brings back up the phantom sleeper in SAS,

well all appreciate clarification on this soon as you can get us the offcial word, when I was on #421 2 weeks ago there WERE two sleepers in addition to

the trans dorm so perhaps this is what made me so certain they ran 2 sleepers on #421/#422 days! Guess the newbies think were nuts down here since we ride/know these trains so well and dont have any definite answer yet! (no comments from RI are needed, my apartment is bigger than that place! :lol: )


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

saxman said:


> I'm still not convinced there's an extra sleeper on #421 days. I see that train on a weekly basis, and in fact riding on it today. I know a few years ago, they use to carry an extra 421 sleeper, but not anymore. I always help passengers get to the right car and on 421 days they always put the California folks in the last car which is a coach. Even the passengers with sleepers with 421 printed on their tickets are actually in the 2120 sleeper. I'm going to ask today, how Arrow goes about booking 421 and 21 pax in a sleeper. I'm curious.



Looks like this is confirmed.

This video:

 of the Eagle on Friday the 13th this month, shows its standard consist (the train does have a Diet Pepsi -8 and 5 private cars) of trans-dorm, sleeper, CCC, SSL, and 3 coaches. Being that this is train 21 on a Friday, it's a 421 day and there's no extra sleeper or coach.
That still leaves the question of the phantom sleeper/coach in SAS.

~Blake


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## had8ley (Nov 25, 2009)

Come on Traveler; just where are you stashing #22's phantom sleeper ???


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

Ok, I've been drawing diagrams for the past hour and I think I've got it.

This gets a bit convoluted, but hopefully it's right. Bear with me, lol.

This all occurs in San Antonio.

Monday: 22 leaves in the morning with standard equipment (the standard train 21 that arrived in SAS the night before.)

21 arrives in the evening with the 421 cars. The Sunset arrives in the evening with its 422 cars--an even trade.

Tuesday: 22/422 leaves in the morning with the same consist as it arrived with, except that it traded one sleeper and one coach with the Sunset.

21 arrives in the evening with standard equipment.

Wednesday: 22 leaves in the morning with the standard consist that arrived as 21 on Tuesday night.

21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.

Thursday: 22 leaves in the morning with a protect coach and sleeper (where that comes from you'll soon see.)

21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist. Now is where the phantom sleeper/coach come in. The Sunset Limited ALSO arrives Thursday night. So on this night, the Texas Eagle drops the sleeper and coach it came in with--those become protect equipment--and adds on the sleeper and coach from the Sunset.

Friday: 22/422 leaves in the morning--same consist as always because it dropped a coach and sleeper in SAS and picked up the coach and sleeper from the Sunset.

21/421 arrives in the evening, giving the 421 coach and sleeper to the Sunset.

Saturday: 22 departs with the protect equipment from Thursday night.

21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, but again, the Sunset ALSO arrives this evening with 422 cars, so 21 drops its sleeper and coach, which become the protect equipment for next Thursday morning's 22.

Sunday: 22/422 departs in the morning--same consist as always because of the dropping of the protect equipment and the pickup of 421 cars.

21 arrives in the evening with a standard consist, which departs the next morning as 22--and the cycle begins again at the top.

Think I got it?

~Blake


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

BlakeTyner said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still not convinced there's an extra sleeper on #421 days. I see that train on a weekly basis, and in fact riding on it today. I know a few years ago, they use to carry an extra 421 sleeper, but not anymore. I always help passengers get to the right car and on 421 days they always put the California folks in the last car which is a coach. Even the passengers with sleepers with 421 printed on their tickets are actually in the 2120 sleeper. I'm going to ask today, how Arrow goes about booking 421 and 21 pax in a sleeper. I'm curious.
> ...


Good video, thanks Blake! As they said in "Alice in Wonderland" it gets curiouser and curiouser! Im beginning to think there must be an extra sleeper in SAS as other posters have mentioned! Chris is supposed to get the official word so we'll see! Perhaps in the winter when it slows up the Western trains dont have to run so many sleepers so the poor Eagle can have an extra sleeper so Amtrak can run the train with just one engine most days without having to add power to haul extra cars! The third "STL" coach has usually been hauled empty after STL everytime Ive ridden this year but perhaps as Chris said they bnow load the #1/#421 coach pax in that coach in DAL and FTW? I had no idea this would be so interesting to those not from Texas since we have so few trains down this way! Thanks for the feedback/input, the mystery will be solved with Inspector X on the job! :lol:


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Good video, thanks Blake! As they said in "Alice and Wonderland" it gets curiouser and curiouser! Im beginning to think there must be an extra sleeper in SAS as other posters have mentioned! Chris is supposed to get the official word so we'll see! Perhaps in the winter when it slows up the Western trains dont have to run so many sleepers so the poor Eagle can have an extra sleeper so Amtrak can run the train with just one engine most days without having to add power to haul extra cars! The third "STL" coach has usually been hauled empty after STL everytime Ive ridden this year but perhaps as Chris said they bnow load the #1/#421 coach pax in that coach in DAL and FTW? I had no idea this would be so interesting to those not from Texas since we have so few trains down this way! Thanks for the feedback/input, the mystery will be solved with Inspector X on the job! :lol:



Jim--we had a simulpost, but I think I got it all figured out -- check out my last post and see if you agree.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

BlakeTyner said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Good video, thanks Blake! As they said in "Alice and Wonderland" it gets curiouser and curiouser! Im beginning to think there must be an extra sleeper in SAS as other posters have mentioned! Chris is supposed to get the official word so we'll see! Perhaps in the winter when it slows up the Western trains dont have to run so many sleepers so the poor Eagle can have an extra sleeper so Amtrak can run the train with just one engine most days without having to add power to haul extra cars! The third "STL" coach has usually been hauled empty after STL everytime Ive ridden this year but perhaps as Chris said they bnow load the #1/#421 coach pax in that coach in DAL and FTW? I had no idea this would be so interesting to those not from Texas since we have so few trains down this way! Thanks for the feedback/input, the mystery will be solved with Inspector X on the job! :lol:
> ...


Looks good Blake, this works and actually makes sense which is sorta rare when it comes to Amtrak! :lol: Must be the folks down here on the Eagle board actually get listened too which includes Saxman and soon you I hope? Thanks for the post, its not often members can trump Alan B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 25, 2009)

I was in FTW one time when the northbound 22 had to dump a bad ordered Sleeper (AC Trouble); so I imagine that really throws a monkey wrench into the formula.


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## RandyJay (Nov 25, 2009)

Yep, it's a real shell game in SAS, especially since the 421/422 sleeper is mid-consist on 21/22. Blake I do believe you have it right. The protect sleeper (and/or coach) are typically stored east of the station a ways and not likely too visible for those arriving or departing on 21/22.

Just to confirm the earlier consist reports, I just came off of 21/421 (CHI-SAS) and indeed the lone sleeper was the 21 and 421 sleeper combined (car 2130). I was on a GR ticket for train 421; talked a while with the attendant and she always refered to it as the "LA car". Note that the attendant for the "421" car turns in SAS back to CHI; the 421 pax wake up to a new attendant from the LA crew base. Same thing for the 422 attendant from LA.

Jim, we'll have to get together one of these days - you're just up the road!


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

RandyJay said:


> Yep, it's a real shell game in SAS, especially since the 421/422 sleeper is mid-consist on 21/22. Blake I do believe you have it right. The protect sleeper (and/or coach) are typically stored east of the station a ways and not likely too visible for those arriving or departing on 21/22.
> Just to confirm the earlier consist reports, I just came off of 21/421 (CHI-SAS) and indeed the lone sleeper was the 21 and 421 sleeper combined (car 2130). I was on a GR ticket for train 421; talked a while with the attendant and she always refered to it as the "LA car". Note that the attendant for the "421" car turns in SAS back to CHI; the 421 pax wake up to a new attendant from the LA crew base. Same thing for the 422 attendant from LA.
> 
> Jim, we'll have to get together one of these days - you're just up the road!


Thanks for the info Randy! No wonder we couldnt see the "exta"coach/sleeper in SAS. its always dark there and as Ive said the switching seems to go on most of the night when both trains are there, sometimes even three @ once when they are not OT. You must live around Centex if Im just up the road,

that would be great! You can always PM me and well work something out, I am retired now but noit dead yet! :lol:


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## AlanB (Nov 25, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Looks good Blake, this works and actually makes sense which is sorta rare when it comes to Amtrak! :lol: Must be the folks down here on the Eagle board actually get listened too which includes Saxman and soon you I hope? Thanks for the post, its not often members can trump Alan B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, I never ventured an opinion on how many sleepers were on the train or whether or not there was a phantom sleeper. I simply said that it's not possible for one sleeper to be both the Train #21 sleeper and the #421 sleeper on the same day. And I stand by that. On days that they run through cars with the Sunset and assuming that there is only 1 full sleeper in the consist, I continue to believe that no one boarding that car is doing so with a ticket for Train #21. Everyone must have a ticket for train #421, even if they aren't traveling west of SAS. Only the Trans/Dorm rooms could be ticketed as Train #21.

On days with no through cars, and again assuming only 1 full sleeper, then it would be sold as train #21.


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## RandyJay (Nov 25, 2009)

Alan - good point. On my recent ride on 21/421 there were folks in the revenue rooms in the dorm; quite likely they were ticketed as train 21 pax. I was in the full sleeper and ticketed as 421 even though my res was only for SAS (and I never asked for 421), so I'm betting you're exactly right. So that means the number of true train 21 roomettes is much less on the 421 days, and no bedrooms or H rooms are to be had at all on 21 (Assuming just the one full sleeper of course). Now I'm curious if the reservation system penalizes you pricewise if all you really wanted was 21, but instead were "forced" to go on 421.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

RandyJay said:


> Alan - good point. On my recent ride on 21/421 there were folks in the revenue rooms in the dorm; quite likely they were ticketed as train 21 pax. I was in the full sleeper and ticketed as 421 even though my res was only for SAS (and I never asked for 421), so I'm betting you're exactly right. So that means the number of true train 21 roomettes is much less on the 421 days, and no bedrooms or H rooms are to be had at all on 21 (Assuming just the one full sleeper of course). Now I'm curious if the reservation system penalizes you pricewise if all you really wanted was 21, but instead were "forced" to go on 421.


Excellent question Randy! As with all things, it depends! :lol: The fares on this train dont always make sense, Ive seen them the same, #21 cheaper than #421 and vice versa but guessing about only having one sleeper I bet they do fill the trans dorm with #21 pax first, and you are correct about the H and family rooms, its starting to sound like the Cardinal which as we all know is hard to get bedrooms and the high bucket is usually the norm! Excellent for a project to do test bookings on amtrak.com for various dates, #21/#421 and 22 /#422 days and just the regular #21/#22 days!

And no offense to Alan who I was just teasing a bit, hes always spot on with his info, doubt if Ill ever see him give an incorrect answer here!


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## AlanB (Nov 25, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> And no offense to Alan who I was just teasing a bit, hes always spot on with his info, doubt if Ill ever see him give an incorrect answer here!


No, there have been times I've been wrong on here. You may have to dig very hard to find them, but there have indeed been things that I've gotten wrong. And in fact that's why I didn't venture an opinion on how many cars are or are not on the Eagle, becuase I don't know for sure. But I am sure that they can't "split" a sleeper down the middle so to speak and assign it to both train #21 & #421 at the same time on the same day.

If there are sleeper tickets being sold with train #21 on a day that there are through cars to the Sunset, then either those tickets are for the Trans/Dorm or Amtrak is adding a second full sleeper.


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## saxman (Nov 25, 2009)

!!!Texas Eagle Consist Update!!!

Alright, I just got off a sold out Texas Eagle tonight in Austin coming from Dallas. Consist was Engine, Dorm, Sleeper, CCC, Coach, Coach, LAX Coach. I wasn't able to ask an agent today, but I did look at a load manifest of pax getting on in Dallas. All those booked in a sleeper were indeed booked as #421 in the 2130 car, even though some were getting off in AUS or SAS. No one getting on the train in Dallas was boarding the Trans Dorm, so I couldn't really verify if those in the Dorm were booked as #21, but I assume they were. In checking Amtrak.com, you can indeed book a sleeper on either 21 or 421. If you pick 21, you'll automatically be in the dorm car. I'll have to confirm this next time I get to see a manifest though.

Randy did a good job on figuring out how they maneuver those cars in SAS. I sat for about 10 minutes trying to figure it out, and it almost made my head spin and I gave up. I guess I had never thought about how things went down there. I need to take a trip to SAS soon and this time stay awake for the switching! ha.

I suppose northbound, the same thing happens. The full sleeper is only 422, and the dorm is 22. In fact riding to the Gathering I left Dallas on a Sunday which is a 422 day. But my ticket had 22 printed on it and I was in the Trans Dorm. Originally I was leaving on a Monday, a non 422 day, and I was ticketed on 22 in the full sleeper.


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## henryj (Nov 25, 2009)

All I can say is good job everyone. I am in Houston so I don't get to see the Eagle which is why I was curious as to how it works. I think we now have the answer thanks to you guys. It probably changes my count of the number of cars in the Sunset Eagle pool, but not significantly. Thanks.


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## BlakeTyner (Nov 25, 2009)

henryj said:


> All I can say is good job everyone. I am in Houston so I don't get to see the Eagle which is why I was curious as to how it works. I think we now have the answer thanks to you guys. It probably changes my count of the number of cars in the Sunset Eagle pool, but not significantly. Thanks.


The other thing is..._if_ daily CHI-LAX service is initiated in April--which I actually think will happen--the pool will change again. The scenario wherein the Eagle has daily LAX service via the Sunset connection in SAS, combined with a coach-only/CCC day train betwen SAS and NOL, seems likely to happen in my mind. I have no confirming evidence from Amtrak, so it's just rumor at this point, but I think there's enough smoke about this to maybe have some fire.

~Blake


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

saxman said:


> !!!Texas Eagle Consist Update!!!
> Alright, I just got off a sold out Texas Eagle tonight in Austin coming from Dallas. Consist was Engine, Dorm, Sleeper, CCC, Coach, Coach, LAX Coach. I wasn't able to ask an agent today, but I did look at a load manifest of pax getting on in Dallas. All those booked in a sleeper were indeed booked as #421 in the 2130 car, even though some were getting off in AUS or SAS. No one getting on the train in Dallas was boarding the Trans Dorm, so I couldn't really verify if those in the Dorm were booked as #21, but I assume they were. In checking Amtrak.com, you can indeed book a sleeper on either 21 or 421. If you pick 21, you'll automatically be in the dorm car. I'll have to confirm this next time I get to see a manifest though.
> 
> Randy did a good job on figuring out how they maneuver those cars in SAS. I sat for about 10 minutes trying to figure it out, and it almost made my head spin and I gave up. I guess I had never thought about how things went down there. I need to take a trip to SAS soon and this time stay awake for the switching! ha.
> ...


Well that settles it Chris, thanks for the info, also good input from the others! Have they taken the Sightseer off again or is that just one of those days?

You tend to wonder this time of year as the trains get shorter, wonder where they keep the spares, in CHI?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 25, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > !!!Texas Eagle Consist Update!!!
> ...


Jim, all Sightseers that can be should be on the road this week due to Thanksgiving travel.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 25, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > saxman said:
> ...


Yeah I agree, I just wonder why it seems the Eagle and the City always get the short end of the stick? Does anyone know if there are bad orderred sightseers anywhere, I wouldnt think they would run two on the western trains or the Cap! This seems to happen often in the fall, since I ride the Eagle so much I assure you there is a big difference between having the Sightseer and not having one or even two CCCs as has happened lots this summer/fall down here!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 25, 2009)

They are only overnight trains, thus the other Western LD trains get first dibs out of the CHI pool. The CS's SSLs aren't where the CONO or TE can hook one up, that only leaves the CL as where they can take off a SSL. The CL only has three consists and can only be kept in CHI since no other Superliner trains come out of WAS. The CL also seems to have higher ridership-- so there's possible reasons why the CL is higher up on the pecking order. On top of the CL are the longer long distance trains and the CS is somewhat separated.


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## MichigantoTexasbyrail (Nov 26, 2009)

This past September, I rode the Texas Eagle from Chi to Ft. Worth and back. The train had the same exact consist both ways. Locomotive,Transdorm,sleeper, CCC/diner,SSL, three coaches.

Back in October of 2005, the same basic trainsets were used, with a couple of minor changes. There were no lounge cars either way. We were told by crew that the cars interiors had gotten trashed in New Orleans moving people out of that city a couple of months earlier and that they were gone to the shops for new insides. I don't know that that was the case, but no SSL cars for some reason. Going south, a private car was on the tail for the whole trip. On the return trip, there were two engines. Both were under power whenever I saw them, too.

I really liked the SSL cars. I spent quite a bit of time there. Even when the scenery was as ordinary as we had passing through the swamps of eastern Texas or fields of Illinois, the SSL was quite full. The scenery is decent and worthy of big windows in the Ozarks and along the Mississippi, but that is all at night if you're even close to on schedule. There was a difference I did notice (as did almost everyone else) between the two SSL cars. The southbound car had a/c power at almost every table and every group of seats. Tons of places to plug electrical gadgets in. The other car had about two outlets for the whole upstairs. One of them was a trip and fall hazzard near the top of the stairs to the cafe'. Oddly, there were plenty of places already cutout for the outlets, but filled with plates. One of the cars must have been a more recent refurb. Or maybe the other was just pressed in to service more quickly. Either way, the SSL was nice.

-Les in MI.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 26, 2009)

Remember that the primary function of a SSL is not the windows alone, but its the café. Since the CONO and TE both run with CCCs which have a fully stocked café section there is no need to run an additional car to provide that service.

One can make the argument that the CL is in the same position-- and in general this is true. However the CL always has a second sleeper, a third coach, and is very well patronized, almost to the point where it runs at its operational capacity.

When diners come out of BG the CL will probably be the first to loose the CCCs (pending this mess with a daily TE through LAX).


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## had8ley (Nov 26, 2009)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I was in FTW one time when the northbound 22 had to dump a bad ordered Sleeper (AC Trouble); so I imagine that really throws a monkey wrench into the formula.


Believe it or not Amtrak will refund your sleeper fare, throw you in coach (if you want to get where you are going) and provide a small voucher for future travel (if you scream loud enough) BUT will run the train the rest of the way without the sleeper unless, in very rare occasions there is an extra one laying around; e.g. another bad order that was repaired.


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## saxman (Nov 26, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > !!!Texas Eagle Consist Update!!!
> ...


There was a lounge car last night. I just forgot to list it. Woops!


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## Drew Mitchem (Nov 26, 2009)

The Eagle goes by my place (South of St. Louis) every day with usually the same consist. Usually 1 P42, Trans-Dorm, Sleeper, Cross Country Diner/Lounge(37000 series), Sightseer Lounge, Coach Baggage and 2 Coaches. Occasionally there is 4 coaches total, and occasionally the Trans-Dorm is subsituted with another Sleeper. I have seen a couple of occasions where there was an actual Diner (38000 series) on the train in place of the 37000 series Diner, and 1 time I saw a 38000 series diner followed by a 37000 series Diner(CCL) in place of the Sightseer Lounge.

If 21 is on time, it goes by my place at approx 915pm, and if 22 is on time, it goes by my place at approx 500am.

Drew Mitchem

CPD 043 UP De Soto Sub (South end of the siding of De Soto)

De Soto,MO


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## amtrak34east (Nov 26, 2009)

Amtrak 21 of November 26 by the house on time at 2115 (915pm). Amtrak P42 #185 leading the usual consist of: Transitional Dorm, Sleeper, Cross Country Lounge/Diner(37000 series), Sightseer Lounge, Coach Baggage, Coach, Coach.

He gave up his warrant between Iron Mountain Jct and Barracks at 2041(841pm) to UP DS 31 (De Soto Sub) initials BDE.


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