# Japan makes our country and Amtrak seem like frontier times.



## MIrailfan (Apr 11, 2021)




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## Palmetto (Apr 12, 2021)

That's what you get when government regularly invests in its railroads and passenger trains. The USA does not, and so we are where we are--unfortunately. Here, we need to make a profit on everything, or somehow it should not exist. So much for the common good. Boy, I'm glad I got THAT off my chest!


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## VentureForth (Apr 12, 2021)

There's a HUGE difference in population density. Imagine NYC with 5 times the population.

I went through Shinjuku every day in high school on my way home. Miss it so much!

Watching the video is just amazing. Every 30 seconds or less a train with 10 coaches, packed with people, is going one way or the other.

Google map link to where the video is from: Shinjuku City


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## west point (Apr 12, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


>



Yes saw 6 trains at once.


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## VentureForth (Apr 14, 2021)

Here's one that you can see the Shinkansen on (left two tracks, not the people mover on the far left):

Tokyo Live Camera Ch1 [4K] 東京 汐留 鉄道 ライブカメラ - YouTube

Note: best viewing time is from around 6PM EDT through to around Midnight EDT. The bullet train runs almost every 5 minutes in one direction or the other. This is the trainset that is being considered for the Texas Central HSR project.


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## TrackWalker (Apr 14, 2021)

"Japan makes our country and Amtrak seem like Frontier times"

I've told this story before but I like it so much I'll tell it again.

Back in 2013 I took an AMTK trip with friends from Boston to Los Angeles by way of the LSL and SW Chief.

I was flying home from LA and was waiting in line for my flight when the young lady (in her 20's) ahead of me struck up a conversation with me. When she asked where I was coming from I proudly mentioned the AMTK trip. 

She looked at me incredulously and seriously asked, "Do you live in the 19th century?"


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## Cal (Apr 14, 2021)

TrackWalker said:


> "Japan makes our country and Amtrak seem like Frontier times"
> 
> I've told this story before but I like it so much I'll tell it again.
> 
> ...


Sigh. 


And uh, what's the point of this thread again? Pretty sure we all know where the US stands when compared to Japan and other Asian rail companies.


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## VentureForth (Apr 14, 2021)

Cal said:


> And uh, what's the point of this thread again? Pretty sure we all know where the US stands when compared to Japan and other Asian rail companies.


The NEC really isn't THAT bad. The Acela at 160 MPH is formidable. Only it that that for like 5 minutes between Boston and DC. The biggest issue with the NEC is the crumbling infrastructure, not the availability of service.


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## Cal (Apr 14, 2021)

VentureForth said:


> The NEC really isn't THAT bad. The Acela at 160 MPH is formidable. Only it that that for like 5 minutes between Boston and DC. The biggest issue with the NEC is the crumbling infrastructure, not the availability of service.


And a faster journey time between NYC and Boston would be nice...


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## George Harris (Dec 23, 2021)

This whole subject has been beat to a pulp for years. Enough! We do not have the population density to make this pay off. We do not in general have the attitude necessary to make this level of crowding comfortable. Been there, done that, got used to it to the point that when I first saw the Tokyo subway my thought was, so what? This is no big deal for the people and population here. The general "NIMBY" attitude toward building anything new makes the concept of modifying the NEC alignment sufficiently to permit a reasonable reduction in run time for that currently exiting. The general condition of the NEC is not really that bad. Some major improvements in certain locations would be highly desirable, and in some, but not all cases improve reliability, but as to these improving performance, the result would be minimal.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 23, 2021)

VentureForth said:


> The NEC really isn't THAT bad. The Acela at 160 MPH is formidable. Only it that that for like 5 minutes between Boston and DC. The biggest issue with the NEC is the crumbling infrastructure, not the availability of service.


Well, to be quite honest, the Tokaido service in Japan is kind of like what the NEC would be if Acelas ran every 15 minutes. And ran full of passengers. Also, what you're seeing in Shinjuku is nearly all commuter trains, so it's not really fair to compare it to Amtrak.

By the way, this is nothing new. Back in 1978 when I visited Japan, the Shinkansen trains on the Tokaido line (which at the time was the only Shinkansen line) ran every 15 minutes. Aside from the fact that the Japanese government consistently supports serious infrastructure spending for railways (unlike the government of another country we all know), the state of Japanese highways (constant traffic jams) helps explain why Japanese travelers prefer the train.

Ans, by the way, except for some tourist-oriented "experiential" routes, Japan has no overnight sleeper service left.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 23, 2021)

George Harris said:


> We do not in general have the attitude necessary to make this level of crowding comfortable. Been there, done that, got used to it to the point that when I first saw the Tokyo subway my thought was, so what? This is no big deal for the people and population here.


I have ridden the Tokyo Subway. It was crowded, but no worse than my commute leg on the Washington Metro from Metro Center to Union Station. It also wasn't much different from some rides I've taken on the New York Subway, either.


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## Tlcooper93 (Dec 23, 2021)

George Harris said:


> This whole subject has been beat to a pulp for years. Enough! We do not have the population density to make this pay off. We do not in general have the attitude necessary to make this level of crowding comfortable. Been there, done that, got used to it to the point that when I first saw the Tokyo subway my thought was, so what? This is no big deal for the people and population here. The general "NIMBY" attitude toward building anything new makes the concept of modifying the NEC alignment sufficiently to permit a reasonable reduction in run time for that currently exiting. The general condition of the NEC is not really that bad. Some major improvements in certain locations would be highly desirable, and in some, but not all cases improve reliability, but as to these improving performance, the result would be minimal.


If you’ve had enough, why resurrect an 8 month old thread...

I feel like a broken record for saying this:
The NEC is actually pretty good. It has everything a true rail corridor needs:
-a high speed train (not true HSR, but the speed is on par with many services around the world)
-decently fast, frequent cheaper trains
-overnight sleeper service.

yes, many things need fixing, but the trains from Boston to DC actually resemble many decent rail countries around the world.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 23, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> If you’ve had enough, why resurrect an 8 month old thread...
> 
> I feel like a broken record for saying this:
> The NEC is actually pretty good. It has everything a true rail corridor needs:
> ...


The only point I take issue with is "cheaper trains " on the NEC.

They are usually fairly High Bucket compared to similar corridors in the rest of the US.


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## daybeers (Dec 23, 2021)

The track quality and electrical systems on the NEC are quite poor compared to the maintenance of other railway-heavy countries. The fact that we're saying the NEC "isn't that bad" when the Sprinters are in the shop so often because of the bad track and running them into the ground non-stop and there are several tunnels and bridges that are literally falling apart because they're over 100 years old yet they carry "high-speed trains" is laughable.

Give me a break with the population density argument too. Not a reason not to throw out the board and make meaningful changes immediately.


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## jiml (Dec 23, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> If you’ve had enough, why resurrect an 8 month old thread...


Sums it up in one line.


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## Tlcooper93 (Dec 23, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> The only point I take issue with is "cheaper trains " on the NEC.
> 
> They are usually fairly High Bucket compared to similar corridors in the rest of the US.


The “cheaper trains” was in comparison with the more expensive HSR option (Acela) for that given corridor, not the rest of the country.


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## neroden (Dec 25, 2021)

Ohio has higher population density than France. The US failure to have decent rail service is strictly due to stupid political choices.


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