# Dome Cars



## Crescent Mark (Sep 1, 2008)

Did Amtrak sell all of it's dome cars? Do they have any left? I think I read somewhere they have two for business left?

I was just watching a YouTube video of the City Of New Orleans rolling through Memphis in 1989 and it had a dome car, so I was just wondering...


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## AlanB (Sep 1, 2008)

Amtrak has one full dome car #10031 left in service. All other cars have either been sold, scrapped, or retired.


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## Crescent Mark (Sep 1, 2008)

Is it actively used on any routes? Or kept just for extremely special occasions?

EDIT:



Is this the one?

Surprising to me they've done that to so many. I've seen plenty of videos of the Capital Limited and the CONO having them even just up to about a decade ago.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 1, 2008)

Retired would imply they are sitting in a yard somewhere in mothballs, wouldn't it?


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## Shotgun7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Crescent Mark said:


> Is it actively used on any routes? Or kept just for extremely special occasions?
> EDIT:


Yes, that's the one. Amtrak put it on the front of the Adirondack last fall to promote the route's scenery during that time of year. As for other times they use it, I wouldn't say extremely special. It's used on very random occasions, like business trains, promotional events, relaunching of trains (like in 2005 with the EB), or placed onto a regular train for a few months just to promote the route (Like with the Adirondack last fall or the Surfliner last spring).


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## Crescent Mark (Sep 1, 2008)

Excellent. Thanks for the answer. Last question - I've heard that an original Zephyr Dome has been tacked on to the end of the California Zephyr a few times. How does this come about? Does a private business own it (or several?) and decide they want to pay for it to take the ride every now and then?


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## Shotgun7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Crescent Mark said:


> Excellent. Thanks for the answer. Last question - I've heard that an original Zephyr Dome has been tacked on to the end of the California Zephyr a few times. How does this come about? Does a private business own it (or several?) and decide they want to pay for it to take the ride every now and then?


I don't know any details about this car in particular, but it is definately a private rail car, not necessarily owned by a business, with no correlation to Amtrak. Since it's private, no Amtrak passengers are aloud into the car. You can do this on any Amtrak route where the time and equipment for switching permits; just pay an extremely hefty fee and Amtrak will tow your railcar across the country.


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## Rob_C (Sep 2, 2008)

That dome has been operating most recently this summer on the central coast Surfliner. Would be nice if they could get a few back in service as it really adds something to what is otherwise a pretty boring consist and with Horizon cars, a pretty big drag to be on for four hours. IMO if they can pull one or two out of mothballs, the Adriondak should have one all year, and so should the CCS. There are probably a couple of other routes that would benefit, but those two strike me as must-have.


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## MrFSS (Sep 2, 2008)

See most of the private rail cars for rent *HERE*.


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## Walt (Sep 2, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Retired would imply they are sitting in a yard somewhere in mothballs, wouldn't it?


I would think that retired would mean rummaged for spare parts. Leaving behind a shell that might not be easily bought back into service, ever. No?


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## MrFSS (Sep 2, 2008)

Walt said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Retired would imply they are sitting in a yard somewhere in mothballs, wouldn't it?
> ...


For info on every US dome car that has existed, visit *THIS* site.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 2, 2008)

Does anyone know of any cases where someone has bought a retired car or cars, had them hauled to a fixed final location and turned them into a house/cottage, much like some folks do with retired airliners? I've seen numerous boxcars that have been turned into workshops or storage sheds and cabooses (cabeese?) that have become restaurants and can only imagine the right person could make a nice dwelling out of an old dome or other passenger car.


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## the_traveler (Sep 2, 2008)

When I lived in upstate NY, I remember seeing a property that someone converted (IIRC) a caboose and some box cars to be their residence. (And this as miles from the nearest rail line!) But I don't recall seeing any passenger cars converted to private living space.

Of course, there are businesses that have done so to cabooses, sleepers or diners. 3 that come to mind are in Stratsburg, PA (sp?), Chattanoga, TN (sp?) and a restaurant I went to years ago in southern CA.


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## MrFSS (Sep 2, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> When I lived in upstate NY, I remember seeing a property that someone converted (IIRC) a caboose and some box cars to be their residence. (And this as miles from the nearest rail line!) But I don't recall seeing any passenger cars converted to private living space.
> Of course, there are businesses that have done so to cabooses, sleepers or diners. 3 that come to mind are in Stratsburg, PA (sp?), Chattanoga, TN (sp?) and a restaurant I went to years ago in southern CA.


How 'bout an entire hotel of cabeese?


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 2, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Does anyone know of any cases where someone has bought a retired car or cars, had them hauled to a fixed final location and turned them into a house/cottage, much like some folks do with retired airliners? I've seen numerous boxcars that have been turned into workshops or storage sheds and cabooses (cabeese?) that have become restaurants and can only imagine the right person could make a nice dwelling out of an old dome or other passenger car.


Its in my 5 year plan, man. I'm just waitin' to get the money to do it. I got my eye on a crew dorm for sale (Pine Cove/Pacific Slope). I need a Diner and something else (the third isn't so important, since I'm gonna gut it anyway) in addition, I'm only interested in Budd-built cars. Its not just the fact that I'm a railfan (although I am), its also a pretty inexpensive concept, and low maintenance to boot.


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## MrFSS (Sep 2, 2008)

Here is the ultimate use of equipment.

This is the boss's office in this engine.






This is the office staff's car.






His office has a complete "O" gauge railroad running around inside, too.

I took these a few years ago for use on another webpage.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Sep 2, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Does anyone know of any cases where someone has bought a retired car or cars, had them hauled to a fixed final location and turned them into a house/cottage, much like some folks do with retired airliners? I've seen numerous boxcars that have been turned into workshops or storage sheds and cabooses (cabeese?) that have become restaurants and can only imagine the right person could make a nice dwelling out of an old dome or other passenger car.


Why wouldn't you want to find some track to park the car or cars on where HEP is available, and have Amtrak tow your home to your vacation spot whenever you go traveling, if you're going to do that?

The width of a railcar is somewhat less than I want for some of the spaces I want in a home, and I don't like the idea of having to walk through vestibles in the winter when I'm at home.

The reason cabesse are popular for things like that hotel, I suspect, is that they became obsolete fairly suddenly when using a FRED became a valid alternative.


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## profwebs (Sep 2, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Why wouldn't you want to find some track to park the car or cars on where HEP is available, and have Amtrak tow your home to your vacation spot whenever you go traveling, if you're going to do that?



I'm pretty sure to do this, you would need the "Amtrak Nerd Rewards" select plus card as discussed in another thread here.. B)


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 3, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Why wouldn't you want to find some track to park the car or cars on where HEP is available, and have Amtrak tow your home to your vacation spot whenever you go traveling, if you're going to do that?
> The width of a railcar is somewhat less than I want for some of the spaces I want in a home, and I don't like the idea of having to walk through vestibles in the winter when I'm at home.
> 
> The reason cabesse are popular for things like that hotel, I suspect, is that they became obsolete fairly suddenly when using a FRED became a valid alternative.


Because maintaining a railcar to Amtrak standards costs a bloody fortune compared to simply using it as a home. Trust me, I've done research into all of this.


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## Guest_Yerry_* (Sep 3, 2008)

I've moved three cabooses for others. Pulling teeth with a herd of mice is easier. First, all the downers I've encountered:

Almost all of the "good" equipment is owned by brokers making very-long-term investments, capitalizing on the person with a lot of disposable income who _really_ wants a car. They will charge what they can possibly get.

Once easy to get in the '70's, railroads aren't too keen on letting go of cabooses any more. If you can find one and can bid on one, scrappers don't like competition, and the first hoop you'll have to jump through involves payment-- Railroads want full payment on-the-spot, but won't take cash, and frown on checks-- they want an existing account. Chatting up a business that ships with the railroad and already has an account is the easiest way to get around it.

Okay, you bought the thing. Maybe you'll get a good deal on RR shipping, FOB nearest terminal, but nowadays "pay from storage location". Either way, if the RR has to move it at all, YOU pay for whatever's needed to certify it for shipping-- mostly safety appliances and brake work.

You're very lucky if you have a spur to put it on, but if the RR has any say in the matter, you need to get it completely off ROW. Even a 50-foor move involves a crane and its crew, paid for by the hour from the minute the equipment leaves the movers to the minute it returns. Expect a couple hundred bucks an hour and ROUND UP-- 61 minutes equals two hours. Remember, most cabeese weigh 29 tons.

Longer shipping? Expect oversize permits to dramatically increase crane costs. Power companies may need to lift power lines, and the novelty of moving RR equipment has worn off, and they charge A LOT. One of the 29-ton cabooses I moved punched through a substandard bridge which the township wanted us to pay for until we showed how we "patched" the hole with a triple-thick layer of plywood (that obviously worked better than the bridge), thus proving poor bridge inspection was the real issue. The now-defunct Iron Horse restaurant chain figured out how to move cars using equipment similar to what moves mobile homes, but I haven't seen the equipment, and can't find anyone who has (worthy of someone looking into).

Of course, you have to find a co-operative zoning board. caboose #1 was considered a "shed." No fooling! Cabooses #2 and #3 had to be set on a cinder-block foundation, because of a fear that, if on trucks, they would roll away! Idiots! And don't forget the NIMBY and idiot factor; Caboose #1 generated protests because of a misunderstanding of what "trucks" were.

Make sure you have a disposal plan in case the RR gets abandoned or you decide you really won't live forever. One caboose in N Michigan has been for sale for almost 15 years now. Not everyone wants one, and location is a very big deal. Some old GT passenger cars N of Petoskey, MI are now tourist association owned, who got them for almost nothing after PRR/PC/MIGN pulled up tracks. I shudder at the thought of moving an 85-foot passenger car any real distance.

Cupolas are useless. They're not a separate room; they're just a higher part of the roof, with equipment lockers added in the space on either side, with seats bolted on top of them. Try turning a cupola into a kid's "clubhouse" means ducking down to get from the front of the caboose to the back, and the little ones will quickly outgrow it.

THE GOOD SIDE:

You CAN find that great deal saving you a lot of bucks, if you can wait. I know of one caboose locally (Grand Rapids, MI area) that was bought and moved for cheaper than a substantial storage building would have cost. Considering it as a guest house or vacation cabin and the price and work is easier to swallow. Especially if you're not one of those people who whine about problem lists afterwards.

As for personal satisfaction, hey, I saved three cabooses from uncertain futures. NYC, C&O, C&NW.

ALSO, put simply, YOU NOW OWN A RAIL CAR. How cool is that?


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## lrdc9_metroplitan_sub (Sep 3, 2008)

Yerry, that is THE BEST, most thorough post I have read here. Good info!

And Green Maned Lion, when you google discuss.amtraktrains.com, under links within the website (the little ones bottled up underneath search result) your account is in the top 8 links for the website. Congrats!


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## Tony (Sep 3, 2008)

lrdc9_metroplitan_sub said:


> And Green Maned Lion, when you google discuss.amtraktrains.com, under links within the website (the little ones bottled up underneath search result) your account is in the top 8 links for the website. Congrats!


Yea, I noticed that too. 



> discuss.amtraktrains.com/ - 68k - Cached - Similar pagesRail Discussion
> 
> *Green Maned Lion*
> 
> ...


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## chuljin (Sep 4, 2008)

Rob_C said:


> That dome has been operating most recently this summer on the central coast Surfliner. Would be nice if they could get a few back in service as it really adds something to what is otherwise a pretty boring consist and with Horizon cars, a pretty big drag to be on for four hours. IMO if they can pull one or two out of mothballs, the Adriondak should have one all year, and so should the CCS. There are probably a couple of other routes that would benefit, but those two strike me as must-have.


I noticed it last night. Apparently, it's been on 798/799 all week, and likely to stay for a couple more days.


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## chuljin (Nov 24, 2008)

chuljin said:


> Rob_C said:
> 
> 
> > That dome has been operating most recently this summer on the central coast Surfliner. Would be nice if they could get a few back in service as it really adds something to what is otherwise a pretty boring consist and with Horizon cars, a pretty big drag to be on for four hours. IMO if they can pull one or two out of mothballs, the Adriondak should have one all year, and so should the CCS. There are probably a couple of other routes that would benefit, but those two strike me as must-have.
> ...


And back from leaftime on the Adirondack, it's back on 798(792)/799 these days. Unconfirmed rumor from one of the usual BC attendants is 'at least until after Thanksgiving'.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 24, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> When I lived in upstate NY, I remember seeing a property that someone converted (IIRC) a caboose and some box cars to be their residence. (And this as miles from the nearest rail line!) But I don't recall seeing any passenger cars converted to private living space.
> Of course, there are businesses that have done so to cabooses, sleepers or diners. 3 that come to mind are in Stratsburg, PA (sp?), Chattanoga, TN (sp?) and a restaurant I went to years ago in southern CA.



The spelling is: Chattanooga.


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## Hanno (Nov 24, 2008)

Five years ago my wife and I took the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver. While I have not traveled extensively with Amtrak and thus am not an expert I can say that the Canadian trip was the best train trip we were ever on. The dome car, along with the park car, were a definite plus and made the expereince even more memorable.

Wouldn't it be great to have some of these cars in service for the EB, CZ, or SWC!

Bob


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## spacecadet (Nov 24, 2008)

Hanno said:


> Five years ago my wife and I took the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver. While I have not traveled extensively with Amtrak and thus am not an expert I can say that the Canadian trip was the best train trip we were ever on. The dome car, along with the park car, were a definite plus and made the expereince even more memorable.
> Wouldn't it be great to have some of these cars in service for the EB, CZ, or SWC!


Ironically (or maybe not), Amtrak's last dome car and the one that's been mentioned here several times was built for the Empire Builder.

Here it is in the later green GN livery: http://www.trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picGN1391j.jpg

Here is one of its sister "View" series dome cars (I believe four were built) in the more well-known GN livery on the EB: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/gn1394.jpg

Amtrak also used to run many dome cars on western routes - its consists in the early days were basically the same as the railroads it inherited them from. So on the EB, you might have three or four domes, including the great domes (I like the little domes better; you can see front and back more easily, and there's less ceiling structure and more glass). Amtrak also ran dome cars on the Capitol Limited. I was lucky enough to ride in many of these Amtrak dome cars.

The Superliner sightseer lounges are not a bad substitute considering Amtrak's mandate, but the 360 degree panoramic view is lost in those cars. And of course, in the east, we don't even have real lounges at all anymore (cafe cars don't count). I wonder why they never tried to build a "sightseer lounge" out of an Amfleet car, with wraparound windows like on the Superliner lounges.


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## AlanB (Nov 24, 2008)

Hanno said:


> Wouldn't it be great to have some of these cars in service for the EB, CZ, or SWC!


Actually if they were in service on those trains, part of their charm would be lost. That is the ability to look forward over the train and rearward over the train. The domes aren't tall enough to let you see over the top of the Superliner cars.


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## Hanno (Nov 24, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Hanno said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be great to have some of these cars in service for the EB, CZ, or SWC!
> ...


That's a good point and the whole idea of domes cars is a moot one as well since there are none planned for future use to my knowledge!


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## sky12065 (Nov 24, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Hanno said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be great to have some of these cars in service for the EB, CZ, or SWC!
> ...


Alan, my first reaction to your statement was how much can you really lose? Then I did a google photo search on dome car and realized that if you had the dome's front seats (further back to a lesser degree) on a single level consist, you could actually fanticize that your the engineer running the train! Where's my RR hat! Woo-woo, what a hoot! 







ON EDIT: This may not be the same exact dome being discussed, but it's the same idea!


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## NativeSon5859 (Nov 24, 2008)

I used to enjoy sitting in the Dome cars on the CONO. They had one, sometimes two (the second was part of the River Cities consist), until the train went all Superliner in 1994.


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## jis (Nov 24, 2008)

sky12065 said:


> Alan, my first reaction to your statement was how much can you really lose? Then I did a google photo search on dome car and realized that if you had the dome's front seats (further back to a lesser degree) on a single level consist, you could actually fanticize that your the engineer running the train! Where's my RR hat! Woo-woo, what a hoot!


You'd get that feeling only if you were in the first dome car in the consist. In case of the Canadian, that would be the Skyline Dome for the Comfort (Coach) Class passengers. OTOH from the dome of the Park car on the Canadian looking forward you see a series of Skyline Domes ahead of you depending on the length of the train that day. This has a charm of its own. And then of course there is the ultimate railfan seat at the rear end of the Park car too! Just four more days to go before I am on the Canadian traveling from Vancouver to Toronto! Woo-hoo!


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## MrFSS (Nov 24, 2008)

jis said:


> You'd get that feeling only if you were in the first dome car in the consist. In case of the Canadian, that would be the Skyline Dome for the Comfort (Coach) Class passengers. OTOH from the dome of the Park car on the Canadian looking forward you see a series of Skyline Domes ahead of you depending on the length of the train that day. This has a charm of its own. And then of course there is the ultimate railfan seat at the rear end of the Park car too! Just four more days to go before I am on the Canadian traveling from Vancouver to Toronto! Woo-hoo!


This is the view from the second dome, front seat. I had it as we left Toronto.






This is the inside view of the Park Car - I found it to be empty of passengers most of the time.






Jis - are you going to have the triple bedroom in the Park Car. Its really nice, I'm told, but a long walk to the diner!


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 24, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > You'd get that feeling only if you were in the first dome car in the consist. In case of the Canadian, that would be the Skyline Dome for the Comfort (Coach) Class passengers. OTOH from the dome of the Park car on the Canadian looking forward you see a series of Skyline Domes ahead of you depending on the length of the train that day. This has a charm of its own. And then of course there is the ultimate railfan seat at the rear end of the Park car too! Just four more days to go before I am on the Canadian traveling from Vancouver to Toronto! Woo-hoo!
> ...


There is always a soft spot in my heart for a streamlined rear observation car. I have mentioned numerous times that my first train trip was at age 3 on the Dixie Flagler from Chattanooga to Daytona Beach. But a detail I usually do NOT bother to mention is that our coach seat resevations were screwed up and we had to begin the first part of the trip in the tapered rear observation car.

Thus my affinity for them...not sure if I really remember it or not but there is a definate "connection"

I,too, was on the Canadian-- about 2004 I guess-- and loved every mile and every minute of it.


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## Ryan (Nov 25, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Amtrak also ran dome cars on the Capitol Limited. I was lucky enough to ride in many of these Amtrak dome cars.


Thanks so much for saying that - this has been something that's bothering my for years!!!!

In 1994 (I was 14), I took a train trip from Harper's Ferry to Raton to go to the Philmont Scout Ranch - it was the dream trip of a lifetime for a young kid like me. I vividly remember the train trip out there, and one of the things that I thought was the coolest was sitting in the front of the dome car and seeing the signals out in front of us change from green to red as the first part of the train passed by.

Fast forwarding to today, as I gained an interest in trains and started reading and learning, the fact that the CL was a superliner (and as was mentioned there are no superliner dome cars) really had me flummoxed. Knowing that dome cars once ran that route (I'm hoping as late as the summer of 1994???) makes everything make sense again!

As an aside, totally unrelated to domes, we went CL - SWC for the ride out, but went SWC and then CHI to PHL (and then south on the NEC to NCR) for the trip home. What train(s) were running that route then? Broadway Limited? Three Rivers? I remember (since we had a guaranteed connection) that Amtrak held the NEC train for us, as we were late getting into Philly. Once the train got in, they had us off first, and we all ran up a flight of stairs, across the station and then down a flight of stairs to get on the waiting train to head home. I was shocked and amazed that they would hold up the departure of a whole train, just for us!


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## spacecadet (Nov 25, 2008)

HokieNav said:


> Fast forwarding to today, as I gained an interest in trains and started reading and learning, the fact that the CL was a superliner (and as was mentioned there are no superliner dome cars) really had me flummoxed. Knowing that dome cars once ran that route (I'm hoping as late as the summer of 1994???) makes everything make sense again!


1994 seems kinda late, but I suppose it's possible unless someone proves it isn't. I think I last rode a dome on this route about 1990.

btw other eastern trains ran with domes - it's kind of a misconception that these were purely a western thing. In addition to the CL, the Crescent had four domes when Amtrak took it over and they kept running it that way for a while. I think I have a picture from the dome on the Crescent on my hard drive at home - maybe I'll upload it later tonight.



> As an aside, totally unrelated to domes, we went CL - SWC for the ride out, but went SWC and then CHI to PHL (and then south on the NEC to NCR) for the trip home. What train(s) were running that route then? Broadway Limited? Three Rivers?


In 1994 it still would have been the Broadway Limited.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 25, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > Fast forwarding to today, as I gained an interest in trains and started reading and learning, the fact that the CL was a superliner (and as was mentioned there are no superliner dome cars) really had me flummoxed. Knowing that dome cars once ran that route (I'm hoping as late as the summer of 1994???) makes everything make sense again!
> ...


Absolutely true, domes were not purely a western thing. But they were mostly western and originally western. At least some back east domes would have been on the Panama Limited, CHI to NOL, the South WInd and the City of Miami, CHI to MIA. The B&O, the Florida Special from NYC to Miami(but the dome only from Richmond south).Still, mostly in the west. Notably,though, the Sunset Limited never had dome, at least not pre-Amtrak.

I notice you mention the Crescent at one time having four domes.Actually, it never had four in one set of equipment. You maybe counting the total on hand,but the Crescent never had but one in each set, and it ran only from Atlanta to NOL.


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## Ryan (Nov 25, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > Fast forwarding to today, as I gained an interest in trains and started reading and learning, the fact that the CL was a superliner (and as was mentioned there are no superliner dome cars) really had me flummoxed. Knowing that dome cars once ran that route (I'm hoping as late as the summer of 1994???) makes everything make sense again!
> ...


Thanks! Another childhood mystery solved! Somewhere, there exists a box of photos from that trip, some of which were taken on/near the train. One of these days I'll have to dig them out and scan the good ones.


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## spacecadet (Nov 25, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I am not sure what you mean about the Crescent at one time having four domes. It never had four in one set of equipment. You maybe counting the total on hand,but the Crescent never had but one in each set, and it ran only from Atlanta to NOL.


I was probably misremembering the number. When I remember my photos of my last trip on the train, I'm picturing four domes in my head (three plus the one I'm in)... but it's fuzzy enough that there could be as few as just the one. I'll check when I get home. But I am probably thinking of some other train and mixing a set of photos together in my memory.

I definitely do have pictures from the Crescent dome, though, because the Southern locos are clearly visible (and that's something I remember clearly).


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## jis (Nov 25, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> This is the inside view of the Park Car - I found it to be empty of passengers most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am in a single room, exactly where in the train I don't know, but it does seem to be in a Manor sleeper.

When I travel by the Canadian, that last chair on the right in the Park car is usually facing towards the rear 

Yes from the Park car one would have at least three Manor/Chateau cars and a Skyline Dome to walk through to get to the Diner.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 25, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure what you mean about the Crescent at one time having four domes. It never had four in one set of equipment. You maybe counting the total on hand,but the Crescent never had but one in each set, and it ran only from Atlanta to NOL.
> ...


The scenery is not that great on The Crescent until you get near NOL IMHO. However, that dome was usually on the rear of the train and it has so many curves between ATL and Birmingham a dome was a neat place to be. I rode the dome once.I live just a few blocks from the station in Atl so I have kept up with it fairly well through the years.


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## access bob (Nov 25, 2008)

HokieNav said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak also ran dome cars on the Capitol Limited. I was lucky enough to ride in many of these Amtrak dome cars.
> ...



The Capitol Limited under the B&O had some custom made "squatty" domes these were about a foot lower than the traditional dome car. and this was so that they could get into Washington Union Station under the wires (Wires have since been raised) But Amtrak ran those squat domes on the CL for many years up until or near to when the train got Superliners.

the last time I was by there was still one sitting in Brunswick yard, looking very forelorn, I have been told it was bought by a private party but never picked up. status is uncertain. (MARC it was claimed ran it a few times when very short of equipment, but I have never been able to confirm this)

as for coming back via Phila you probably came on the Broadway in 1994 this was the "late" train routing for the CL which left earlier then, I have had this connection forced onto me by Amtrak once or twice. they have since cleaned up Chicago departure times.

Bob


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## MrFSS (Nov 25, 2008)

access bob said:


> The Capitol Limited under the B&O had some custom made "squatty" domes these were about a foot lower than the traditional dome car. and this was so that they could get into Washington Union Station under the wires (Wires have since been raised) But Amtrak ran those squat domes on the CL for many years up until or near to when the train got Superliners.Bob


I saw one of them in Chicago in the 50's. Not a very good picture, but I took this one about 1957.


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## access bob (Nov 25, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > The Capitol Limited under the B&O had some custom made "squatty" domes these were about a foot lower than the traditional dome car. and this was so that they could get into Washington Union Station under the wires (Wires have since been raised) But Amtrak ran those squat domes on the CL for many years up until or near to when the train got Superliners.Bob
> ...



actually that is far better than most "roster" type photos that I have seen (or taken myself) over the years.. Really gives the impression of speed too.

Bob


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 25, 2008)

If I'm right, those are spotlights at the front of the dome. B&O put those on the dome cars to light up passing scenery at night and I understand they were turned off as the train passed through a town so as not to startle folks living along the tracks.


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## Bierboy (Nov 25, 2008)

sky12065 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Hanno said:
> ...


WOW...does that bring back memories!! We rode the Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited back and forth from Chicago to Seattle in the 60s and I'd spend nearly all the time in the dome cars. That view is awesome!


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## spacecadet (Nov 25, 2008)

Ex-B&O domes, taken in Washington, probably on the Capitol Limited:






One of those same cars in 2002 






And in happier days...


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## George Harris (Nov 25, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Ex-B&O domes, taken in Washington, probably on the Capitol Limited:


This picture was taken in 1973. What is in the background is the WMATA major repair shop with the tracks under construction. the retaining wall just behind the dome cars is for the WMATA track outbound going up to cross over the B&O wye tracks to the Rhode Island Avenue station. The tracks the cars are on was designated as the B&O main and replaced the former double track B&O main access to Washington Union Station. I was working for the track contrator building the WMATA tracks there at that time. Same contractor had built the track on which the train is standing, and all the others in the picture as replacements for WUS storage tracks that occupied the space taken over by WMATA.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 26, 2008)

Clearly a Pullman-Standard dome. I doubt they ran to '94, especially since in that recent photo, it still sits in phase-I paint. Nothing in P-1 paint ran much past 1980. All Heritage cars got atleast Phase II, most Phase III, as they got HEP.


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## spacecadet (Nov 26, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Clearly a Pullman-Standard dome. I doubt they ran to '94, especially since in that recent photo, it still sits in phase-I paint. Nothing in P-1 paint ran much past 1980. All Heritage cars got atleast Phase II, most Phase III, as they got HEP.


No, that particular dome was sold in the 1970's. But Amtrak ran other domes on that route into the 1990's. This is from 1993:






1994 looks like it was the year of the Superliner changeover, but they could have still been running a dome in the first part of the year. I just can't find a picture of a single level consist from 1994.


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## access bob (Nov 26, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Clearly a Pullman-Standard dome. I doubt they ran to '94, especially since in that recent photo, it still sits in phase-I paint. Nothing in P-1 paint ran much past 1980. All Heritage cars got atleast Phase II, most Phase III, as they got HEP.



not sure of the exact date, but the wires in Union Station were raised during the disasterous bicentenial rebuild of Union station and the building of the parking garage over the tracks. So there probably was no need to use the squat domes after the wires were raised. I believe there were only two of those dome cars anyway. (maybe 4 but it wasn't many)

Bob


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## George Harris (Nov 26, 2008)

access bob said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly a Pullman-Standard dome. I doubt they ran to '94, especially since in that recent photo, it still sits in phase-I paint. Nothing in P-1 paint ran much past 1980. All Heritage cars got atleast Phase II, most Phase III, as they got HEP.
> ...


Sure about the raising of the wires? I don't think so. There was some work on them, but think the elevation above rail did not really chang. Either way, I know that there was no change in wire elevation under New York Avenue, which all trains on the old B&OL had to go under. Same for the First Avenye tunnel approach which all southbound trains have to use.


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## access bob (Nov 26, 2008)

George Harris said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


the Wires at New York Avenue I believe were already high enough, they raised the wires over the tracks a couple at a time so that the Superliners could use the station. I am pretty sure they are all raised now. The cars would fit before but the clearance was not within the safety margin, I am not sure how much they had to raise them but it wasn''t a lot.

At one time I remember the CL had to use a very specific route in and out of WUS, and also to Ivy City.

Bob

Bob


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## chuljin (Nov 28, 2008)

I finally took a daytime trip in Amtrak's last Great Dome this morning. Very brief trip report, but with links to many pics and videos, here.

Enjoy!


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 29, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly a Pullman-Standard dome. I doubt they ran to '94, especially since in that recent photo, it still sits in phase-I paint. Nothing in P-1 paint ran much past 1980. All Heritage cars got atleast Phase II, most Phase III, as they got HEP.
> ...


From what I can gather, there is one Viewliner sleeper on that train. How many sleepers ran on the Cap?


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## PRR 60 (Nov 29, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> ...From what I can gather, there is one Viewliner sleeper on that train. How many sleepers ran on the Cap?


Looks like one Viewliner and two Heritage sleepers. Being 1994, the Viewliner would have been one of the prototypes.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 29, 2008)

I was thinking it was one Viewliner, obviously, as you mentioned, a prototype, a 10-6, and a crew-dorm.


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## spacecadet (Nov 30, 2008)

I mentioned having pics from the Crescent earlier (sadly, the only dome car I ever took pics out of, apparently). Well, here they are - can anybody tell me where this is and what dome car I rode in? Was this actually one of the Southern domes? I don't remember when this photo was taken, exactly - it was sometime in the mid-1970's.











The seats look a little odd, don't they?


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 30, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> I mentioned having pics from the Crescent earlier (sadly, the only dome car I ever took pics out of, apparently). Well, here they are - can anybody tell me where this is and what dome car I rode in? Was this actually one of the Southern domes? I don't remember when this photo was taken, exactly - it was sometime in the mid-1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Southern never actually built or had built domes for itself. Instead it purchased domes from Wabash, which had used them on it's Blue Bird from Chicago to St. Louis.

The location is likely to between Atlanta and Birmingham since that route is so curvey.


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