# Atlantic Coast Service discussion



## frequentflyer (Jan 26, 2022)

MODERATOR NOTE: This new thread was created for facilitating general discussion of Atlantic Coast Service and posts were moved from a couple of threads to this new one (1/27/22).




McIntyre2K7 said:


> I was looking at the rail cam in Plant City (You can view it on the rail cam at 16:43 EST). I could not see the car numbers.
> 
> Todays consist for 92(in order)
> 
> ...



There was a time not too long ago when both Silver trains were 18 cars maxed during peak travel seasons. And now they are a shell of their former selves, and Amtrak states they are growing?


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## Eric S (Jan 26, 2022)

Anyone have ridership numbers for these trains in the 18-car era? Was ridership significantly greater than now (or the late 2010s)?

How long were Silver trains in off-peak travel seasons?


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## jis (Jan 26, 2022)

Eric S said:


> Anyone have ridership numbers for these trains in the 18-car era? Was ridership significantly greater than now (or the late 2010s)?
> 
> How long were Silver trains in off-peak travel seasons?


I would be amazed if anyone outside Amtrak has any reliable data. Ask in a month or two and maybe more will be known.


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## Eric S (Jan 26, 2022)

jis said:


> I would be amazed if anyone outside Amtrak has any reliable data. Ask in a month or two and maybe more will be known.


What will change in a month or two?

EDIT: Wait, are you saying we'll have data for the currently-combined train in a month or two?

I so, I was probably not clear in what I was asking. I was wondering how ridership in the years/decades-past 18-car era compared to ridership in recent (probably pre-pandemic normal) times.


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## jis (Jan 26, 2022)

Eric S said:


> What will change in a month or two?
> 
> EDIT: Wait, are you saying we'll have data for the currently-combined train in a month or two?
> 
> I so, I was probably not clear in what I was asking. I was wondering how ridership in the years/decades-past 18-car era compared to ridership in recent (probably pre-pandemic normal) times.


I was saying the former.

I am sure anyone with enough time on their hand can relatively easily dig up the latter. Just got to find those old issue of the Passenger Trains Journal


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## OBS (Jan 26, 2022)

Eric S said:


> What will change in a month or two?
> 
> EDIT: Wait, are you saying we'll have data for the currently-combined train in a month or two?
> 
> I so, I was probably not clear in what I was asking. I was wondering how ridership in the years/decades-past 18-car era compared to ridership in recent (probably pre-pandemic normal) times.


Just based on memory, back in the 18 car days, you had both Star and Meteor that operated with 3-4 coaches and 2-3 sleepers for each section (Miami and Tampa) as well as a Lounge car for each and a shared diner (which for many years was buffet service operated out of two cars). So you literally have 50% of the capacity (or less) now on each train, the way they are set up. This gives you a general idea of ridership comparisons. It was also in the days before Southwest airlines and any other discount carrier which started the general decrease in traffic to Florida.


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## Qapla (Jan 26, 2022)

Was that also in the times when the Meteor and the Star took different routes out of Florida ... the Meteor used to go through Ocala and Waldo - I'm not sure the Star did


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## OCL1 (Jan 26, 2022)

Qapla said:


> Was that also in the times when the Meteor and the Star took different routes out of Florida ... the Meteor used to go through Ocala and Waldo - I'm not sure the Star did


Yes, Ocala was served by both the Meteor and the Star. It was a great way to visit Savannah frequently (for social reasons), as well as for overnight trips to Washington, Philadelphia, and New York for meetings.


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## Qapla (Jan 26, 2022)

I know my Aunt used to visit us from Miami traveling by train - we used to pick her up in Waldo. Being able to meet the train in Waldo was very convenient.


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## OBS (Jan 26, 2022)

Qapla said:


> Was that also in the times when the Meteor and the Star took different routes out of Florida ... the Meteor used to go through Ocala and Waldo - I'm not sure the Star did


yes


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## jis (Jan 26, 2022)

I believe the splits were at different places too. One split at Jacksonville and the other at Auberndale AFAIR.


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## Willbridge (Jan 26, 2022)

I dug into some 1985-86 issues of _Rail Travel News. _In the off-peak they showed 16 cars on both the _Meteor _and the _Star_, not counting private varnish. In 1985 RTN 325 ran an article titled "Florida Service Booms -- More Needed."

In October 1984, NY-FL trains boarded 38,106 passengers. Add 5,286 on Miami-Tampa. For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 36,013.

In October 1985, NY-FL trains boarded 50,530 passengers. For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 39,687.

In November 1985, NY-FL trains boarded 57,060 passengers. For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 47,720.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 26, 2022)

OBS said:


> Just based on memory, back in the 18 car days, you had both Star and Meteor that operated with 3-4 coaches and 2-3 sleepers for each section (Miami and Tampa) as well as a Lounge car for each and a shared diner (which for many years was buffet service operated out of two cars). So you literally have 50% of the capacity (or less) now on each train, the way they are set up. This gives you a general idea of ridership comparisons. It was also in the days before Southwest airlines and any other discount carrier which started the general decrease in traffic to Florida.



The real culprit to that is more so I would think Spirit, and Allegiant. Spirit has a very large presence at all of Florida's major airports. And it seams to me like every time I hit a Florida airport I see a ton of Allegiant's aircraft. 

Back then the Silver Star was a serious train. The real problem on that is we got rid of the heritage fleet. Back when the Star was an 18 car train in the videos I've seen it was 2 sleepers in each section, a slumbercoach, and that large amount of coaches. The problem I see is there were 76 10/6 type sleepers mostly former Burlington, Union Pacific, and Santa Fe cars with a handful of others sprinkled in here and there. 9 11 Double Bedroom sleepers of which a few of these were part of the few Pullman-Standard cars to make it into the heritage era as most were left out of the heritage program. Then you had 25 Slumbercoaches but two configuration the majority were the normal ones, but there were 7 EX New York Central sleepercoaches made from the Harbor series cars. 

Amtrak only ordered 50 Viewliner I sleepers so you ended up losing between all three types of sleepers (110) 60 sleeping lines. While the number of sleeper services hasn't decreased. The Meteor and Star are both four set trains, the Crescent is 4, the Cardinal is 2, the Night Owl is 2 sets of one car, and the Lake Shore Limited is 3 sets. So of that 50 cars the Meteor and Star suck up 5 cars for one day meaning 20 cars are sitting on that, the Crescent takes 8, the Lake Shore takes 9 cars, the Cardinal takes 2, and the Night Owl takes 2. So we have 41 Viewliner I's on the road at one time. Things are slightly better now with 25 Viewliner II's. But we're still down 35 sleeping cars. 

The other thing to note in the 90s both the Capitol Limited, Auto Train, and the City of New Orleans were single level trains. The Capitol Limited looked to have drawn 2 sleepers on each set, and the City of New Orleans looked to only have 1 but occasionally a second one showed up. Now the Auto Train in the few videos I could reliably find from the 80s 90s looked to have 7 sleepers, including all of those all double bedroom cars. And you also had the Montrealer/Washingtonian running with a few sleepers as well as the Night Owl/New York Executive. But you still end up with a lot more spares. 



Qapla said:


> Was that also in the times when the Meteor and the Star took different routes out of Florida ... the Meteor used to go through Ocala and Waldo - I'm not sure the Star did



Well technically the Silver Meteor and Silver Star ran down the SAL mainline via Ocala till Amtrak. After Amtrak in the 1972 timetable it shows the Silver Meteor taking the cutoff around Jacksonville and heading non stop to Winter Haven from Savannah. But there were two additional Florida trains the Vacationer (EX Atlantic Coastline name) yet they routed it via the SAL main the whole way, and the Champion (EX Atlantic Coastline Name) that kept to its original route but lost it's Miami section. 

I've really enjoyed typing up this post. I think tomorrow I might start researching the disposition of all of the Heritage cars Amtrak ever rostered. And if I get really bored sitting hot tomorrow you never know I might start looking at the steam heat cars.


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## Willbridge (Jan 27, 2022)

Seaboard92 said:


> if I get really bored sitting hot tomorrow you never know I might start looking at the steam heat cars.



Well, with steam heat you would have been literally sitting hot or too cold!

The 1985/86 16-car consists that I found in _RTN _are as follows. This was the era of Graham Claytor vs. the Office of Management and Budget. $600 million vs. $0.

SILVER METEOR - Train 88 @ Palatka on 7 Nov 85 = Engines 377,260,376; 1262, 1627, 25043, 25074, 25019, 28008, 8073, 8553, 2437 "Pacific Ocean", 2095 "Silver Repose", 2458 "Pine Leaf", 3121 "Henry Knox", 25033, 25035, 25031, 25096, and PVTC101.

Similar 16-car consists on Dec. 13th and 16th.

SILVER STAR - Train 91 @ Ocala on 22 Mar 86 = Engine 386; 1186, 1623, 25083, 25032, 25074, 25003, 28016, 8712, 8558, 2432 "Pacific Waves". 2490 "Pacific View".

SILVER STAR - Train 81 @ Orlando on 30 Mar 86 = Engine 265; 2430 "Pacific Falls", 3127 "Anthony Wayne", 25024, 25050, 26064.

Were those cars named for patriots from the Pennsy, New York Central, or?

###


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## Willbridge (Jan 27, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> I dug into some 1985-86 issues of _Rail Travel News. _In the off-peak they showed 16 cars on both the _Meteor _and the _Star_, not counting private varnish. In 1985 RTN 325 ran an article titled "Florida Service Booms -- More Needed."



In my previous post of ridership, I omitted the NYP<>Savannah service. The table below includes them and December 1985.

In October 1984, NY-FL trains boarded 38,106 passengers. Add 5,286 on Miami-Tampa. Add 8,533 on _Palmetto. _For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 36,013.

In October 1985, NY-FL trains boarded 50,530 passengers. Add 9,362 on _Palmetto._ For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 39,687.

In November 1985, NY-FL trains boarded 57,060 passengers. Add 11,503 on _Palmetto._ For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 47,720.

In December 1985, NY-FL trains boarded 69,213 passengers. Add 14,660 on _Palmetto. _For comparison, the _Coast Starlight_ boarded 55, 217.

###


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## Willbridge (Jan 27, 2022)

Here's a train of over 16 Amtrak cars reported in _RTN_ 329.

SILVER METEOR -- Train 88 @ Sanford on 22 Dec 85 = 273, 385; 1163, 1627, 25013. 25007, 25073, 25026, 25074, 28019, 8716, 8553, 2462, 2917, 2090 "Loch Tarbet", 2447, 3121 "Henry Knox", 25035, 26065, 25033, 2460 "Pine Island".

The rear two cars were deadheading from Tampa to Sanford.


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## VentureForth (Jan 27, 2022)

Sorry - just found this thread and before I bother reading through 60+ posts, why on Earth would they cancel the "premium" Meteor and keep the arguably "secondary" Star?

Ok - going through the posts...

I guess Tampa, Columbia and Raleigh are more important than the few SC stations that the Meteor serves. Which then begs to question why is the Meteor generally better funded and ridden than the Star?


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## Sidney (Jan 27, 2022)

VentureForth said:


> Sorry - just found this thread and before I bother reading through 60+ posts, why on Earth would they cancel the "premium" Meteor and keep the arguably "secondary" Star?
> 
> Ok - going through the posts...
> 
> I guess Tampa, Columbia and Raleigh are more important than the few SC stations that the Meteor serves. Which then begs to question why is the Meteor generally better funded and ridden than the Star?


Also wonder why they didn't revert back to the schedule they had last year during the height of the pandemic..The Meteor Mon-Thu and the Star Fri-Sun. Then again they probably didn't want to miss serving Tampa four days of the week.


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## VentureForth (Jan 27, 2022)

Sidney said:


> Also wonder why they didn't revert back to the schedule they had last year during the height of the pandemic. The Meteor Mon-Thu and the Star Fri-Sun. Then again they probably didn't want to miss serving Tampa four days of the week.


Rats. You caught my post before I realized it was pretty dumb. lol

I HATED that pandemic schedule. If anything, it should have alternated daily. Four days in a row for one and three for the other just made no sense whatsoever. I agree with this current setup, except it adds nearly 6 hours to the total time from Miami to NYC over the Meteor which is an inconvenience to any end-to-end travelers. Of course, if time was an issue, they'd fly.

My biggest question really has nothing to do with this truncated service. I can't help but wonder why - other than the longer travel time - the Star was always less popular than the Meteor and had lower ridership considering it served an extra large Florida city along with the capitol of SC and NC. Really, the only major city the Star misses is Charleston.


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## jiml (Jan 27, 2022)

VentureForth said:


> I can't help but wonder why - other than the longer travel time - the Star was always less popular than the Meteor and had lower ridership considering it served an extra large Florida city along with the capitol of SC and NC. Really, the only major city the Star misses is Charleston.


Thinking back I'm pretty sure the Meteor had the best connections, not just to/from the NEC but with the two trains from Chicago - the Capitol and Broadway at the time. There were periods of through Florida sleepers exchanged with those two trains and even the Montrealer for awhile.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 27, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> Well, with steam heat you would have been literally sitting hot or too cold!
> 
> The 1985/86 16-car consists that I found in _RTN _are as follows. This was the era of Graham Claytor vs. the Office of Management and Budget. $600 million vs. $0.
> 
> ...



The cars with Patriot names come from the Pennsylvania congressionals. And I want to say those were all originally parlor cars as well. I've actually worked quite a few of those cars as a lot of those survived long enough to become private cars. Of those "Patriot" series cars 19 are still surviving and of those 15 of those are still operating somewhere. The only two not operating are the Nathan Hale, John Adams, and the George Washington. The George Washington is actually a parlor/observation car similar to the Alexander Hamilton. 

You probably won't be surprised but I know where each and every one of those cars ended up. I have large spreadsheets of surviving cars of the major builders.



jiml said:


> Thinking back I'm pretty sure the Meteor had the best connections, not just to/from the NEC but with the two trains from Chicago - the Capitol and Broadway at the time. There were periods of through Florida sleepers exchanged with those two trains and even the Montrealer for awhile.



Well historically the Silver Meteor has always been the fleet leader just like on the Seaboard Airline it was the main train. The Silver Star was actually built using hand me down cars from the original 1939 Silver Meteor and using heavyweight sleepers that were painted to look like they had fluting. Eventually it was equipped with streamlined sleepers but it was always the secondary train. Which made trains like the Palmland, Sunland, and a few other ones the real third tier trains. 

On the route of the Amtrak Silver Meteor runs on that was the land of the Champion, Florida Special, and the Vacationer. The Florida Special was a seasonal train but it was the top tier train, running all Pullman into the 50s and maybe the 60s, and unique soft products like a fashion show and other events. The Champion was the train equivalent to the Silver Meteor. The other thing you would see on the Florida trains in the winter was a mixture of paint schemes as the railroads went to the Pullman pool and got whatever had good wheels on to add capacity to their trains. So it wasn't uncommon to see New York Central, Pennsylvania Railroad, Union Pacific, Northern Pacific, or Great Northern cars wintering on the Florida trains.

What I think Amtrak should have done actually is leave the Silver Meteor in place and add Tampa into it's schedule which will slow it down a bit but then you don't lose that. Then for the duration of this service cut send the Palmetto over to Columbia, and Raleigh on it's day schedule. That would be an interesting experiment to see if the ridership would go up with Columbia in daylight. And then with Raleigh going northbound there is a decent spread between it and the Carolinian. Southbound though the spread is not good at all. Be an interesting experiment


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## jis (Jan 27, 2022)

Seaboard92 said:


> What I think Amtrak should have done actually is leave the Silver Meteor in place and add Tampa into it's schedule which will slow it down a bit but then you don't lose that. Then for the duration of this service cut send the Palmetto over to Columbia, and Raleigh on it's day schedule. That would be an interesting experiment to see if the ridership would go up with Columbia in daylight. And then with Raleigh going northbound there is a decent spread between it and the Carolinian. Southbound though the spread is not good at all. Be an interesting experiment



Interesting! So the route of the Silver Star today follows the route of the pre-Amtrak Silver Meteor more closely north of Florida then. So if we can get past the names of trains, the Silver Star of today that has been retained for the temporary period follows the route of the pre-Amtrak Silver Meteor (and Silver Star of course.). That may be a revelation to many.

I think your suggestion does make sense, at least to me.


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## VentureForth (Jan 27, 2022)

Seaboard92 said:


> What I think Amtrak should have done actually is leave the Silver Meteor in place and add Tampa into it's schedule which will slow it down a bit but then you don't lose that. Then for the duration of this service cut send the Palmetto over to Columbia, and Raleigh on it's day schedule. That would be an interesting experiment to see if the ridership would go up with Columbia in daylight. And then with Raleigh going northbound there is a decent spread between it and the Carolinian. Southbound though the spread is not good at all. Be an interesting experiment


I think that's a great idea - but where would you absorb the 3-4 hours jaunt to Tampa? SB, I can see coming into Miami later than the Meteor timetable, but I can't see leaving Miami very early to "catch up" with the Meteor schedule in Orlando. The Palmetto on the Star route out of Savannah would be very interesting.


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## Eric S (Jan 27, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> In my previous post of ridership, I omitted the NYP<>Savannah service. The table below includes them and December 1985.
> 
> In October 1984, NY-FL trains boarded 38,106 passengers. Add 5,286 on Miami-Tampa. Add 8,533 on _Palmetto. _For comparison, the _Coast Starlight _boarded 36,013.
> 
> ...


So it looks like October 2021 ridership for the two Silver trains was about 40,000 (source: Monthly Performance reports at the bottom of this page).

Am I comparing like to like here? October 1984 at about 43,000 and October 2021 at 40,000 (ignoring the Palmetto)?


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## joelkfla (Jan 27, 2022)

I didn't know that there also used to be a direct train (the Floridian) between Chicago & FL until the 1979.


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## Palmland (Jan 27, 2022)

Good suggestion by Seaboard to route the Palmetto via Columbia and let the Meteor be the primary train with the Tampa detour. Leaving NYP earlier SB and arrival later NB to account for the extra time wouldn’t be a bad thing and make the southbound time at Charleston better (since it would lose the Palmetto).

Something needs to be done! If you try to make a reservation from Florida to the Midwest, including Chicago, you get the message: ‘no same day connection available’. How much revenue are they losing as a result?

To answer Seaboard’s question, the Florida Special was still all Pullman (with observation and twin unit diner) when I rode it in 1968.


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## Willbridge (Jan 27, 2022)

Eric S said:


> So it looks like October 2021 ridership for the two Silver trains was about 40,000 (source: Monthly Performance reports at the bottom of this page).
> 
> Am I comparing like to like here? October 1984 at about 43,000 and October 2021 at 40,000 (ignoring the Palmetto)?


I think these would be like to like, but I'm not an expert on the many minor changes made through the years on the Atlantic Coast.


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## jphjaxfl (Jan 28, 2022)

The NYC to Florida service on Amtrak was one of most popular in the system when Amtrak started in 1971. The original schedules also allowed better intrastate timings in Florida which included the Chicago to Florida trains. I have traveled the Northeast to Florida since before Amtrak and the Chicago to Florida service until 1979. I have watched as Amtrak cut back trains and amenities through the years as they attempted to discourage ridership until now with 1 train in each direction. I don't see the service ever returning to prior pandemic frequency. One of the best long distance routes will soon be a distant memory.


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## Amtrak709 (Jan 28, 2022)

jis said:


> I believe the splits were at different places too. One split at Jacksonville and the other at Auberndale AFAIR.





jphjaxfl said:


> The NYC to Florida service on Amtrak was one of most popular in the system when Amtrak started in 1971. The original schedules also allowed better intrastate timings in Florida which included the Chicago to Florida trains. I have traveled the Northeast to Florida since before Amtrak and the Chicago to Florida service until 1979. I have watched as Amtrak cut back trains and amenities through the years as they attempted to discourage ridership until now with 1 train in each direction. I don't see the service ever returning to prior pandemic frequency. One of the best long distance routes will soon be a distant memory.


jphjaxfl I applaud your remarks. Although I have loved the passenger trains all my 74 years of life, that love was solidified during the 1960's when I started riding from Williamsburg VA and Richmond VA on the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star to Florida (lots to Jacksonville FL); and you will remember the Silver Comet to Atlanta. I have watched service deteriorate and become inconsistent over the past 50+ years. I have always tried to adopt the theory that "Amtrak is what we have now; all we got" in order to reinforce my love of the passenger trains. And I realize that COVID has created issues in all sectors of ones life that were unexpected. My latest experiences on the Crescent have made that railfan in me difficult to maintain.


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## Joe from PA (Jan 28, 2022)

Well, at least for now, both trains will be running on March 30. Hopefully I'll be on the Meteor. The only trip I took on the Star had us 45 minutes late before the Tampa 2-hour run. That ended up putting us 1 hour and a half late in total.


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## John Bredin (Jan 29, 2022)

jphjaxfl said:


> I don't see the service ever returning to prior pandemic frequency. One of the best long distance routes will soon be a distant memory.


Counting your chickens before they hatch isn't wise, but neither is counting all your eggs as dead before they've had a chance to hatch. 

Amtrak finally got funding worthy of the name in the middle of a pandemic, and I don't think it's as clear as it is in some people's minds how much of the present situation is covid-related shortages (including knock-on supply chain issues) and how much is lingering cost-cutting attitudes. IMHO, the tendency to attribute all of Amtrak's present woes to the latter is not productive and more than a little wearying. The woes themselves are wearying -- nobody's *happy* about five-day service even if they think it's a necessary evil at the moment, and the recent parade of weather cancellations is disheartening even though the storms really are that bad -- but reading them all as signs of malice or incompetence is more so.

I know Amtrak has made decisions that people don't like, from flex meals to thrice-weakly service and more. The attitude among many rail supporters seems to be "Show me. You've got money now, prove to us that you can make different decisions when Congress isn't on your back and you're not constantly sweating the bottom line." But it's a confounding factor that right now is not the time in *any* industry to be expanding or spinning up.

I would note that the same Amtrak that agreed to the new Crescent schedule is fighting railroad opposition to get Gulf Coast service going. I would also note that, other than canceling one of the Silver trains, the only service still not running at all since Covid is the Adirondack, and I doubt anyone thinks New York State is trying to discourage passengers.

There will be plenty of time to complain if the covid situation improves and labor and supply chain issues get sorted but Amtrak is still running long-distance trains five-times weekly or hasn't restored traditional dining to all long-distance trains (as they did on most of the Western trains despite, as I recall, considerable pessimism among some that they never would).


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## west point (Jan 30, 2022)

Yes, there are some who believe Amtrak will not be the same a pre-C-19. That might be true but since Amtrak has never been able to meet pent up demand how can anyone say that. Until Amtrak has all the operable rolling stock in service including the new Siemens and V-2s only then will we be able to judge ow Amtrak will fare. Maybe even noy then. If more C-19 variants maybe that will extend the time that Amtrak will be able to meet demand. Too many variables with C-19.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 30, 2022)

west point said:


> Yes, there are some who believe Amtrak will not be the same a pre-C-19. That might be true but since Amtrak has never been able to meet pent up demand how can anyone say that. Until Amtrak has all the operable rolling stock in service including the new Siemens and V-2s only then will we be able to judge ow Amtrak will fare. Maybe even noy then. If more C-19 variants maybe that will extend the time that Amtrak will be able to meet demand. Too many variables with C-19.



I think the issue of equipment shortages might be an artificial induced problem. When you look at Amtrak's equipment history they have a tendency to order less than what they are replacing. Look at single level sleepers they had 110 of various types of sleepers and they replaced them with fifty cars in the original Viewliner batch. Then they eventually added another 25 but we are no where close to being at that 110 number. And coaches are also interesting they ran heritage coaches up until the early 2000s on the east coast mixed with Amfleet II's. When the heritage cars were retired they weren't replaced meaning you had much higher capacity in the 90s than you do now. So it is interesting that ridership has gone up while total seats have gone down fleet wide meaning there is better utilization. Now I wonder if you had the same number of cars pre retirement if utilization improved what ridership would be like.


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## jis (Jan 31, 2022)

Amtrak always planned to replace cars i kind in their plans, but Congress would have none of it. They carefully prevented Amtrak from getting enough rolling stock by assiduously refusing to fund conversion of any of the options for the Amfleet II and the Viewliner orders.


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## Willbridge (Jan 31, 2022)

jis said:


> Amtrak always planned to replace cars i kind in their plans, but Congress would have none of it. They carefully prevented Amtrak from getting enough rolling stock by assiduously refusing to fund conversion of any of the options for the Amfleet II and the Viewliner orders.


As I've observed this at Amtrak and VIA over the past five decades it seems as though it's a form of vaccination. New cars are a political event and useful for marketing but with strangled orders preventing widespread contagion on the rail (freight) network.


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## west point (Feb 1, 2022)

Seaboard: For single level service. If Amtrak keeps all the older cars and adds in the Siemens cars including the West coast and Mid USA would that get close to the figures you cite?


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 1, 2022)

west point said:


> Seaboard: For single level service. If Amtrak keeps all the older cars and adds in the Siemens cars including the West coast and Mid USA would that get close to the figures you cite?



Let me work on that. Right now I'm tracking down what remains of the heritage cars. And then I'll figure out what the old equipment needs were and what could be done with that amount now.


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## west point (Jun 22, 2022)

I think that I may spoken too soon about future sevice south. It could be that Amtrak might take some regionals that stop at Richmond and extend them farther into Florida. Probably 1st extend Palmetto? Even a daytime R/T to ATL could initiate by my preferred route of ATL - Raleigh - Richmond = WASH Esp by the "S" line. Another trip by Crescent route only has Danville with just one R/T. CVS will have 3-1/2 R/Ts by July 11th and if Cardinal ever goes daily>??? then 4 R/Ts. Lynchburgh 3 RTs.

This does not even consider the Texacan by way of ATL if CP gets the Meridian speedway..


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## jis (Oct 16, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: There have been multiple threads scattered all over where discussion of Silver Service and Palmetto and even the Atlantic Coast portion of the Carolinian have appeared. We are creating this thread to try to consolidate all that going forward in this single thread. You can also think of this thread as a broadened continuation of the Super Star thread. We are placing a note to that effect in that thread.

Please use this thread to discuss all matters about the Amtrak Atlantic Coast Service.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation...


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## lordsigma (Oct 16, 2022)

It appears Amtrak has reversed the sleepers in both consists. I observed 97(15) on the Ashland camera. Saw in this order what appeared to be an inspection car, deadhead baggage car, 3 coaches, Am2 lounge, VL2 diner, VL1 sleeper, VL2 sleeper, Bag.


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## jis (Oct 16, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> It appears Amtrak has reversed the sleepers in both consists. I observed 97(15) on the Ashland camera. Saw in this order what appeared to be an inspection car, deadhead baggage car, 3 coaches, Am2 lounge, VL2 diner, VL1 sleeper, VL2 sleeper, Bag.


That is the way it used to be in the Star before the Super Star happened. So they have just reverted back to the old Star car order for both the Star and the Meteor apparently. Which of course makes the Meteor car order different for now.


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## joelkfla (Oct 16, 2022)

jis said:


> That is the way it used to be in the Star before the Super Star happened. So they have just reverted back to the old Star car order for both the Star and the Meteor apparently. Which of course makes the Meteor car order different for now.


IMHO, it would be prudent to reverse the order, with the VL II restrooms between the 2 cars, in case the toilets fail in the VL I.


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## Palmland (Oct 16, 2022)

Would thread include AutoTrain?


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## jis (Oct 16, 2022)

Palmland said:


> Would thread include AutoTrain?


The Auto Train appears to have its own thread since it is a special case unto itself:






Auto Train discussions


How far in advance do I need to book my car and sleeper cabin on the auto trai from Lorton va to Sanford fl




www.amtraktrains.com





Although it started as a question, we will make it more general discussion thread.


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## AmtrakWPK (Oct 16, 2022)

98 (16) passing through the Altamonte Springs FL Sunrail Station this afternoon (~10 minutes N of WPK)


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## danasgoodstuff (Oct 17, 2022)

Was there ever a route which stayed more right on the coast than current Amtrak offerings do?


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## Amtrak709 (Oct 17, 2022)

danasgoodstuff said:


> Was there ever a route which stayed more right on the coast than current Amtrak offerings do?


NO. Not since the Florida East Coast ended service in the 1960's. For many years before the creation of Amtrak 05/01/1971, the routes have always been Jacksonville-Ocala-Wildwood-Auburndale-West Palm and south; OR Jacksonville-DeLand-Orlando-Auburndale-West Palm and south (with several variations
including Lakeland-Tampa in the mix). There have always been those of us avid and long time railfans waiting for the return of Jacksonville-Daytona-Melbourne-Vero Beach-Stuart-West Palm and south over the FEC. (My office for the 30+ years I lived in Daytona Beach was located on the former site of the Daytona Beach railroad station). I have now been waiting for sixty (60!) years for that to happen. I am 75 years of age.


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## railiner (Oct 17, 2022)

If the question includes prior to Amtrak, the PRR ran service from New York to Norfolk down the Delmarva peninsula to Cape Charles with a ferry connection and later bus connection to Norfolk…


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## joelkfla (Oct 18, 2022)

98(18) has 2 VL II's instead of 1 of each.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Oct 18, 2022)

danasgoodstuff said:


> Was there ever a route which stayed more right on the coast than current Amtrak offerings do?


Are you meaning like through the Carolina's? Seems like a lot of the coast is swampy and not densely populated - there were some branch lines but no main lines. 

(take a look at openrailwaymap.org)


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## west point (Oct 18, 2022)

When ACL based in Wilmington , NC had what 4 trains at least?


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## NYP2NFL01 (Oct 19, 2022)

jis said:


> That is the way it used to be in the Star before the Super Star happened. So they have just reverted back to the old Star car order for both the Star and the Meteor apparently. Which of course makes the Meteor car order different for now.


I just purchased round trip Silver Service travel for 4/30 (Silver Star) and 5/8 (Silver Meteor). My Star sleeper is 9111 and the Meteor sleeper is 9812. Have they done away with the #10 sleeper car as they seem to have done on the Lake Shore Limited?


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## jis (Oct 19, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I just purchased round trip Silver Service travel for 4/30 (Silver Star) and 5/8 (Silver Meteor). My Star sleeper is 9111 and the Meteor sleeper is 9812. Have they done away with the #10 sleeper car as they seem to have done on the Lake Shore Limited?


The third Sleeper is supposed to get restored sometime in 2023. 9812 is the third Sleeper.


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## joelkfla (Oct 19, 2022)

jis said:


> The third Sleeper is supposed to get restored sometime in 2023. 9812 is the third Sleeper.


Of course, that's what they said about November 2022, too.

@NYP2NFL01 , if you call and ask to be moved, please let us know here whether you were successful.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Of course, that's what they said about November 2022, too.
> 
> @NYP2NFL01 , if you call and ask to be moved, please let us know here whether you were successful.


Yeah. I was originally booked in 9812 on 11/18. Amtrak called me to offer me either Coach on 98 that day or Sleeper on 92. I took the latter, since the time of arrival in NY did not matter to me. This trip is just tog et enough TQP to get to Select Plus. I have been trying to make this trip since July, but the Amtrak gods so far have managed to thwart it one way or the other.


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## joelkfla (Oct 19, 2022)

jis said:


> Yeah. I was originally booked in 9812 on 11/18. Amtrak called me to offer me either Coach on 98 that day or Sleeper on 92. I took the latter, since the time of arrival in NY did not matter to me. This trip is just tog et enough TQP to get to Select Plus. I have been trying to make this trip since July, but the Amtrak gods so far have managed to thwart it one way or the other.


The hurricane blew apart my plan to get to Select. I'm contemplating a 2-nite trip to Savannah in coach on the Meteor; I think that will be just enough to put me over the line.

You do get 2 TQP's per fare dollar, right?


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## MARC Rider (Oct 19, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> 98(18) has 2 VL II's instead of 1 of each.


Yeah, I saw that this morning in Baltimore.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 19, 2022)

AmtrakWPK said:


> 98 (16) passing through the Altamonte Springs FL Sunrail Station this afternoon (~10 minutes N of WPK)


Seems to be an extra diner following the engines, I assume it is a deadhead.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Seems to be an extra diner following the engines, I assume it is a deadhead.


A Diner and a Lounge deadhead. Probably rotating in protect cars to Sunnyside.


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## joelkfla (Oct 19, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Seems to be an extra diner following the engines, I assume it is a deadhead.


Just about every Silver on the 15th & 16th had deadheads -- even a baggage car. Things settled down by the 17th.


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## Palmland (Oct 19, 2022)

On a trip back from the northeast we stopped in Selma, NC for lunch and to check out the station that NC DOT had beautifully restored. For those unfamiliar with this stop on the Palmetto and Carolinian, it is the junction of the Norfolk Southern's line from Greensboro/Raleigh with the CSX line between Rocky Mount and Fayetteville that handles all the Atlantic Coast trains, most without stopping. The NS line continues on to Goldsboro and the coastal town of Morehead City, a route that NC has plans for passenger trains in the future. 

The first photo shows a northbound CSX freight about to cross the NS line. NS has equipment working on the track in the backround. Behind me in the photo is the switch off the NS line from Raleigh to the connection with CSX. 

Not sure if there is a thread on Amtrak stations for this post.




Even though the 1924 station had been extensively restored, NC apparently felt the need to redo the platform on the connection track used by the Carolinian and the Silver Star (that does not stop). I'm not sure why this was necessary since passenger loadings are minimal and the previous platforms were from the 2002 restoration. Inside the station is the area where the ticket agent used to be and now is the attendant as well as what looks to be the original benches, some historical photos and information, and the large rest rooms. I did not think to take photos of it as we had seen it many times during our road trips north. In the 50's, Southern had two trains each way that stopped and the ACL had 3, plus many more that passed through.








The Palmetto arrived while we were there. Two passengers off and one on. The friendly station attendant provides information to travelers, assists with boarding, and opens the station with its very nice interior and rest rooms.. Since she was not an Amtrak employee, she does not help with tickets or baggage. NC (and VA) are good supporters of passenger rail.


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## joelkfla (Oct 19, 2022)

Palmland said:


> On a trip back from the northeast we stopped in Selma, NC for lunch and to check out the station that NC DOT had beautifully restored. For those unfamiliar with this stop on the Palmetto and Carolinian, it is the junction of the Norfolk Southern's line from Greensboro/Raleigh with the CSX line between Rocky Mount and Fayetteville that handles all the Atlantic Coast trains, most without stopping. The NS line continues on to Goldsboro and the coastal town of Morehead City, a route that NC has plans for passenger trains in the future.
> 
> The first photo shows a northbound CSX freight about to cross the NS line. NS has equipment working on the track in the backround. Behind me in the photo is the switch off the NS line from Raleigh to the connection with CSX.
> 
> ...


I thought I remembered passing this interesting junction station on my last trip on the Star, but I was confused when I looked at Google Maps and it showed the Star not going there. Turns out that Google incorrectly shows the Star going directly from Raleigh to Wilson on Carolina Coastal Railway, instead of southeast to Selma via NS.

(The light blue line is Google's representation of the Star route.)


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## joelkfla (Oct 20, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> 98(18) has 2 VL II's instead of 1 of each.


Same on 91(20).


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## railiner (Oct 20, 2022)

Palmland said:


> On a trip back from the northeast we stopped in Selma, NC for lunch and to check out the station that NC DOT had beautifully restored. For those unfamiliar with this stop on the Palmetto and Carolinian, it is the junction of the Norfolk Southern's line from Greensboro/Raleigh with the CSX line between Rocky Mount and Fayetteville that handles all the Atlantic Coast trains, most without stopping. The NS line continues on to Goldsboro and the coastal town of Morehead City, a route that NC has plans for passenger trains in the future.
> 
> The first photo shows a northbound CSX freight about to cross the NS line. NS has equipment working on the track in the backround. Behind me in the photo is the switch off the NS line from Raleigh to the connection with CSX.
> 
> ...


Nice shots, thanks for posting. I always have been fascinated by smaller "junction stations" like this one. One of my favorites, used to be Effingham, IL., where the IC "Mainline of Mid America" and the PRR "Panhandle" line crossed...used to host the City of New Orleans, and the National Limited in Amtrak early days...


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## pennyk (Oct 21, 2022)

Today, for the first time in a very long time, I was able to see train 98 Silver Meteor as it passed through Orlando. I was not at my usual spot and did not get a great view. I think there were 4 coaches. The first sleeper appeared to be a V2, and I am not sure about the second sleeper.


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## joelkfla (Oct 21, 2022)

pennyk said:


> Today, for the first time in a very long time, I was able to see train 98 Silver Meteor as it passed through Orlando. I was not at my usual spot and did not get a great view. I think there were 4 coaches.


Just 3, Penny.



Fourth car is a cafe.




pennyk said:


> The first sleeper appeared to be a V2, and I am not sure about the second sleeper.


It was actually the VL I that's painted like a VL II. I've been seeing it go back and forth all week.


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## pennyk (Oct 22, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Just 3, Penny.
> View attachment 29998
> 
> 
> ...


wow. I sure got things wrong. I guess I was so excited to see the train, that I was not paying close enough attention. Thanks fact checking me.


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## NYP2NFL01 (Oct 24, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> If you call and ask to be moved, please let us know here whether you were successful.


I called AGR Customer Service today (10/24/22). Claudette could not state with certainty if 9812 would be restored by my travel date. She was able to relocate me to the A bedroom of 9810 with all of the discounts intact on the same reservation number. Interestingly she said that some passengers do not like the A bedroom. I never heard that before. Have any of you? At least I’m in a car that will most likely be a part of the consist for my trip.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 24, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I called AGR Customer Service today (10/24/22). Claudette could not state with certainty if 9812 would be restored by my travel date. She was able to relocate me to the A bedroom of 9810 with all of the discounts intact on the same reservation number. Interestingly she said that some passengers do not like the A bedroom. I never heard that before. Have any of you? At least I’m in a car that will most likely be a part of the consist for my trip.


Probably another case of agents being ignorant of actual conditions in the field...

Many passengers do not like Bedroom A in Superliners as it is a bit smaller with a funny shape due to a cutout for the car end aisle corner. That doesn't apply to Viewliners where A and B are identical mirror images. I have no doubt some more experienced passengers have asked the to avoid getting booked in A on Superliner trains. Probably not really understanding the difference between Superliners and Viewliners, the agent assumed a general aversion to A irrespective of equipment type the train uses.


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## pennyk (Oct 24, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I called AGR Customer Service today (10/24/22). Claudette could not state with certainty if 9812 would be restored by my travel date. She was able to relocate me to the A bedroom of 9810 with all of the discounts intact on the same reservation number. Interestingly she said that some passengers do not like the A bedroom. I never heard that before. Have any of you? At least I’m in a car that will most likely be a part of the consist for my trip.


I am one of those passengers who does not like Bedroom A on a Silver Viewliner. The couch is facing backwards. Bedroom B is my favorite, but I will accept A and sit in the chair if that is my only choice, which it will be on my next trip.


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## NYP2NFL01 (Oct 24, 2022)

pennyk said:


> I am one of those passengers who does not like Bedroom A on a Silver Viewliner. The couch is facing backwards. Bedroom B is my favorite, but I will accept A and sit in the chair if that is my only choice, which it will be on my next trip.


Exactly. I don’t mind riding backwards myself! Regarding the Superliner, I traveled in an A bedroom on the Capitol Ltd in 2019. Other than riding backwards, the bathroom entrance was as you enter the room instead of being across from the single seat like the Viewliner layout.


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## Ryan (Oct 25, 2022)

Chiming in as someone not ignorant in actual conditions in the field here on the East Coast that prefers not to be in Viewliner Bedroom A for the reasons enumerated above. I'm less worried about it in a Superliner because of the random orientation. Facing forward is important to be where I can assure it; a marginally smaller room isn't that big of a concern.


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## Traveler (Oct 30, 2022)

Silver meteor sleeping car 9711 room number 4. Trying to determine which side of train I’ll be on.


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## pennyk (Oct 30, 2022)

Traveler said:


> Silver meteor sleeping car 9711 room number 4. Trying to determine which side of train I’ll be on.


Most likely, you will be on the East side of the train (the left side facing in the direction of travel)


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## pennyk (Oct 30, 2022)

I just walked down to the tracks north of downtown Orlando and saw the Silver Star 92 pass by. It was dark and the train moved quickly, but I am pretty sure the 10 car was a V1 and the 11 car was a V2, which has been the usual consist recently.


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## pennyk (Nov 11, 2022)

I am on 97 Silver Meteor right now and both the 10 and the 11 cars are V2 sleepers. On Tuesday's 98 Silver Meteor, the 10 car was a V1 and the 11 car was a V2.

I am guessing things got a bit "messed up" as a result of hurricane/tropical storm Nicole.


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## UhClem (Nov 13, 2022)

I'm looking at booking the Silver service out of Miami around 12/16/22. Most days I look (like 12/17) there is a 98 Meteor departing in the early morning and the 92 Star departing around noon. But I'm not finding a 92 on Friday 12/16. What am I missing? Thanks.


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## jis (Nov 13, 2022)

UhClem said:


> I'm looking at booking the Silver service out of Miami around 12/16/22. Most days I look (like 12/17) there is a 98 Star departing in the early morning and the 92 Star departing around noon. But I'm not finding a 92 on Friday 12/16. What am I missing? Thanks.


98 is not Star. It is Meteor.

I just looked up 12/16 and had no problem finding both the 92 Star and the 98 Meteor departing Miami.


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## UhClem (Nov 13, 2022)

Yes, I forgot to fix the edit. 
Right now if I go to the Amtrak page and put in MIA to BOS, on 12/16 I don't get offered a Star. Just the Meteor. Ahh, if I change to MIA -> NYP then I get it. Must be a NYP to BOS connection issue.
Yes, the NER @ 9:00pm is not showing.


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## pennyk (Nov 13, 2022)

UhClem said:


> Yes, I forgot to fix the edit.
> Right now if I go to the Amtrak page and put in MIA to BOS, on 12/16 I don't get offered a Star. Just the Meteor. Ahh, if I change to MIA -> NYP then I get it. Must be a NYP to BOS connection issue.


The Star arrives in NYP too late to connect to BOS


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## UhClem (Nov 13, 2022)

The 166 can connect, but only on Sunday night. 
Or more tightly the 178 M-F, not on Saturday. 
SIgh.


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## jis (Nov 16, 2022)

Eventually I think, if they are really serious about an overnight train on the NEC extending into Virginia or beyond, they would be better off running an honest to goodness full fledged LD train. Maybe they could rejigger the schedule of the existing LD Palmetto and have it originate.terminate at Boston, and at the other end extend it to JAX and have it carry Sleepers, Diner etc.. But of course more equipment will be needed for such.


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## Amtrak709 (Nov 16, 2022)

jis said:


> Eventually I think, if they are really serious about an overnight train on the NEC extending into Virginia or beyond, they would be better off running an honest to goodness full fledged LD train. Maybe they could rejigger the schedule of the existing LD Palmetto and have it originate.terminate at Boston, and at the other end extend it to JAX and have it carry Sleepers, Diner etc.. But of course more equipment will be needed for such.


jis: I like your post. Can you envision or imagine a train with sleepers and a diner departing BOS on a schedule like the old Twilight Shoreliner--continuing on south to SAV and JAX. Maybe even MIA like the Silver Palm of the late 1990's and early 2000's (but I guess that would require two overnights). I suspect that this would really be a pipe dream that I will NOT see in my lifetime. Occasionally some things do happen in Amtrak operations that can surprise you.


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## Palmland (Nov 16, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Maybe even MIA like the Silver Palm of the late 1990's and early 2000's (but I guess that would require two overnights).


Sounds very much like an extended Silver Palm. This would attract riders in the Carolinas that want to go north or south overnight as well as New England customers. Seaboard’s Palmland and ACL’s Havana Special/Gulf Coast Special had very sizable trains. While most of the passengers in sleepers were between the Carolinas and NY, the Miami sleeper did well until the trains were cut back.

Nothing wrong with a two night train if that enables it to serve different markets. One way to do this now is reschedule the Silver Star to be more like the Silver Palm but originate in Boston and beef up the Meteor to carry more end to end customers. But yes, a few more of those idled Viewliners would be needed - maybe one additional train set?


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## Amtrak709 (Nov 16, 2022)

pennyk said:


> I am one of those passengers who does not like Bedroom A on a Silver Viewliner. The couch is facing backwards. Bedroom B is my favorite, but I will accept A and sit in the chair if that is my only choice, which it will be on my next trip.


Another topic from this thread has been the issue of Viewliner Bedrooms. Since their introduction in the late 1990's, the Viewliners most always ride with the vestibule entrance in the forward of the car as well a Rooms H, A and B at the head end (H rides forward, A rides backward, B rides forward) Roomettes are moot since they have 2 forward-backward seats. But, correct me if I am wrong, the car could (if the train consist was built in the yard that way) actually ride with the vestibule entrance at the back with the H riding backward, A forward, B backward--the downside of which would be the passenger in B and/or H expecting to ride forward might be unhappy. My point and inquiry is simply to confirm the the equipment could be operated either way at the whim of a yardmaster.


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## jis (Nov 16, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Another topic from this thread has been the issue of Viewliner Bedrooms. Since their introduction in the late 1990's, the Viewliners most always ride with the vestibule entrance in the forward of the car as well a Rooms H, A and B at the head end (H rides forward, A rides backward, B rides forward) Roomettes are moot since they have 2 forward-backward seats. But, correct me if I am wrong, the car could (if the train consist was built in the yard that way) actually ride with the vestibule entrance at the back with the H riding backward, A forward, B backward--the downside of which would be the passenger in B and/or H expecting to ride forward might be unhappy. My point and inquiry is simply to confirm the the equipment could be operated either way at the whim of a yardmaster.


They could ride either way mechanically. But normally the H end would be towards the Diner. So if the Sleepers are in the back of the train as they are these days they would be H forward. OTOH if they are in the front of the train then they would be H facing back towards the Diner. The Diner will generally have the Kitchen end facing the Coaches and the Table end facing the Sleepers.


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## pennyk (Nov 16, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Another topic from this thread has been the issue of Viewliner Bedrooms. Since their introduction in the late 1990's, the Viewliners most always ride with the vestibule entrance in the forward of the car as well a Rooms H, A and B at the head end (H rides forward, A rides backward, B rides forward) Roomettes are moot since they have 2 forward-backward seats. But, correct me if I am wrong, the car could (if the train consist was built in the yard that way) actually ride with the vestibule entrance at the back with the H riding backward, A forward, B backward--the downside of which would be the passenger in B and/or H expecting to ride forward might be unhappy. My point and inquiry is simply to confirm the the equipment could be operated either way at the whim of a yardmaster.


Years ago, the Silver sleepers were in the front of the train during the summer months and in the rear during the winter. I think the Silver sleepers have been at the rear year round for at least 8 years.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 16, 2022)

I love riding backwards and, if in a roomette by myself, sometimes will switch seats just for variety. If sharing, I’ll offer to take the seat facing backwards.

I have avoided bedrooms for the reason (aside from the cost) that, oddly since I’m fine with riding backwards, I have a hard time adjusting to sleeping “sideways” instead of having my body moving in the same direction as the train.

I may have to get used to it, though—I would have trouble going down the hall to a bathroom at night (heck, I don’t find it easy in the daytime!) and will probably save up and get a bedroom in the new Viewliners to have my own bathroom.


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## joelkfla (Nov 16, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I love riding backwards and, if in a roomette by myself, sometimes will switch seats just for variety. If sharing, I’ll offer to take the seat facing backwards.
> 
> I have avoided bedrooms for the reason (aside from the cost) that, oddly since I’m fine with riding backwards, I have a hard time adjusting to sleeping “sideways” instead of having my body moving in the same direction as the train.
> 
> I may have to get used to it, though—I would have trouble going down the hall to a bathroom at night (heck, I don’t find it easy in the daytime!) and will probably save up and get a bedroom in the new Viewliners to have my own bathroom.


I also used to be more comfortable sleeping in line with the forward motion. I also liked parting the curtains to peek outside when I woke up during the night, especially when the train was stopped at a station. 

But I don't have a choice now since I need the H-room.


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## finleyd (Nov 24, 2022)

Leaving next Saturday, in a roomette on 9110, can anyone confirm if this is a Viewliner I or II. It really doesn't matter to me but I will bring an extra pair of shoes if its a II. Last time the bathroom got a little messy.


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## jis (Nov 24, 2022)

finleyd said:


> Leaving next Saturday, in a roomette on 9110, can anyone confirm if this is a Viewliner I or II. It really doesn't matter to me but I will bring an extra pair of shoes if its a II. Last time the bathroom got a little messy.


Usually it is a I but it maybe a II. No guarantees. So I would bring appropriate footware.


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## Oreius (Nov 26, 2022)

I’m booked on the Silver Star in December, going in a Bedroom in Car 9110. What has the consist been like lately? Is 9110 a VL2? I’m hoping to be finally able to ride in one. Have they resumed traditional dining? Just curious…


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## jis (Nov 26, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I’m booked on the Silver Star in December, going in a Bedroom in Car 9110. What has the consist been like lately? Is 9110 a VL2? I’m hoping to be finally able to ride in one. Have they resumed traditional dining? Just curious…


9110 is usually a VL I. 

They have not resumed traditional dining as of 11/26/22.


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## UhClem (Nov 27, 2022)

jis said:


> 9110 is usually a VL I.
> 
> They have not resumed traditional dining as of 11/26/22.


Fwiw. 11/25 Silver Meteor 9710 VL 1, 9711 VL2. And Flex dining. Though many of us ate in the dining car.


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## pennyk (Nov 28, 2022)

I just saw a very late Silver Meteor 97(27) pass through Orlando (between WPK and ORL). 

Consist: 1 engine (because I think it had engine issues causing the delay), 3 coaches, cafe, dining car, V1 sleeper (9710) and V2 sleeper (9711), baggage, deadhead V1 sleeper.


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## BBoy (Nov 28, 2022)

True!!!!!! My brother and I are on that consist right now as we speak. 

Currently we are again stopped right now between SBG and WPB. Train is having brake issues.

In Okeechobee.

One of the engines we left in FLO for the Auto Train to pick up and take back up north.


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## BBoy (Nov 28, 2022)

Back on the move.


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## jis (Nov 30, 2022)

I think on the Silvers, Crescent and the LSL New York Section, two Sleepers are pretty stable now.


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## Amtrak709 (Nov 30, 2022)

jis said:


> I think on the Silvers, Crescent and the LSL New York Section, two Sleepers are pretty stable now.


jis or all: To the best of your knowledge, is the Crescent running stlll with just Viewliner 1 sleepers? Trip soon ATN-WAS-ATN and I frequently upgrade as a non-ADA passenger to the H bedroom if available--a space I have always loved in the Viewliner 1 but NOT SO MUCH in the Viewliner 2 because of the toilet location (have never seen it on the Viewliner 2--but have been told on this forum's discussion). Thanks!


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## Oreius (Dec 1, 2022)

jis said:


> 9110 is usually a VL I.
> 
> They have not resumed traditional dining as of 11/26/22.



Oh Well. At least I’m in a Bedroom with my own potty and shower. I haven’t had any problems with the flex dining either. This is a free trip.

My parents are coming along in May when I ride the Star. We are both in Car 9111. If that’s the VL2, then it will be very nice for my parents as I got them the H room. I’ll be in a Roomette for that trip.


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## jis (Dec 1, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> jis or all: To the best of your knowledge, is the Crescent running stlll with just Viewliner 1 sleepers? Trip soon ATN-WAS-ATN and I frequently upgrade as a non-ADA passenger to the H bedroom if available--a space I have always loved in the Viewliner 1 but NOT SO MUCH in the Viewliner 2 because of the toilet location (have never seen it on the Viewliner 2--but have been told on this forum's discussion). Thanks!


IIRC Crescent is still all Viewliner I usually, except for the Bag-Dorm. I don;t recall whether they sell any of the Roomettes in the Bag-Dorm to customers on the Crescent as they do on the Cardinal.


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## Palmland (Dec 1, 2022)

Silver Star at Winter Park- 3 coaches, amcafe, diner. 9110-VI, 9111-VII Raritan River, baggage.


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## Keith1951 (Dec 1, 2022)

I remember when roomettes had toilets traveling from NYC to MIA. Now, I dont see any roomettes with a toilet. Have they stopped putting toilets in all the roomettes?


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## zephyr17 (Dec 1, 2022)

Viewliner Is from the 1990s have in room toilets. The fairly recently delivered Viewliner IIs do not and have a toilet down the hall, which I prefer.

Whether you have a toilet in your room will depend on whether the equipment assigned for your sleeper is a Viewliner I or II. For example, on my recent trip from NYP to CHI on 49, both NY sleepers were Viewliner IIs. On last year's trip, 4911 was a Viewliner I and 4912 was a Viewliner II.


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## pennyk (Dec 1, 2022)

Keith1951 said:


> I remember when roomettes had toilets traveling from NYC to MIA. Now, I dont see any roomettes with a toilet. Have they stopped putting toilets in all the roomettes?


Most of the Silver consists currently have one sleeper with toilets in roomettes (VI) and one sleeper without toilets (VII). It appears that the 10 car is now VI and the 11 car is VII, but, of course, that could change.


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## Oreius (Dec 2, 2022)

I’m onboard 91 right now. And there’s a special treat. My car is a VL2!! It’s Roanoke River. I am pleasantly surprised!


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## jis (Dec 2, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I’m onboard 91 right now. And there’s a special treat. My car is a VL2!! It’s Roanoke River. I am pleasantly surprised!


Is it car 9111?


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 2, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I’m onboard 91 right now. And there’s a special treat. My car is a VL2!! It’s Roanoke River. I am pleasantly surprised!



Wonderful—it looks very nice! 

Glad you got such a nice surprise and hope you have a good trip!


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## Oreius (Dec 2, 2022)

jis said:


> Is it car 9111?


No 9110!

Both sleepers are VL2s


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## jis (Dec 2, 2022)

Oreius said:


> No 9110!
> 
> Both sleepers are VL2s


That seems to be happening somewhat more frequently these days. They do not quite have enough VLIIs to make it so on all runs without stealing a few from the LSL or Cardinal.


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## Oreius (Dec 2, 2022)

This is the consist of 91: 3 Amfleet 2 coaches, 1 Lounge, 1 Viewliner 2 Diner, 2 Viewliner 2 sleepers, and a baggage car. My sleeper car’s name is Roanoke River, and 9111 is Westfield River. The Diner is named “Montgomery.”

Interestingly, I saw Silver Star 92 pull into DC just as we left. It too had 3 coaches, lounge, diner. But Car 9210 was a VL1 Sleeper and 9211 was a VL2. I must have finally got lucky this time!


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## Anderson (Dec 2, 2022)

jis said:


> Eventually I think, if they are really serious about an overnight train on the NEC extending into Virginia or beyond, they would be better off running an honest to goodness full fledged LD train. Maybe they could rejigger the schedule of the existing LD Palmetto and have it originate.terminate at Boston, and at the other end extend it to JAX and have it carry Sleepers, Diner etc.. But of course more equipment will be needed for such.


I think you've got two options here:
(1) Run the NEC portion as a day train. For this, you'd extend the Meteor to BOS (this was done for a bit back in the 70s). Given the scheduled times (IIRC the Meteor hits NYP at about 1115 and leaves at 1515) the equipment sits overnight regardless, so hitting BOS at 1515 and departing at 1115 (allowing four hours) wouldn't actually "waste" a set. The bigger issue, IIRC, is the yard situation in Boston plus the question of spare equipment. There's also the issue of "blocking" space all the way from WAS to BOS, especially given frequency limits in eastern CT. A variant of this might run over the Inland Route (which I think is mostly state/agency/Amtrak-owned, and picking up any stray portions might be feasible) - going with the 5.5-ish hours for the old Inland Route trains, that'd put arrival into BOS around 1645 or so (there's probably some time savings from track upgrades on the NHV-SPG section, and some stops could be skipped) and a departure around 0945 (ditto). Again, the question becomes one of capacity controls - but I'd like to think that Amtrak could partially handle this manually to avoid blocking out through traffic, and I'd hope that 13-14 hours was enough time to comfortably turn a train. I'd hope.

(2) If you extend the Palmetto, you'd probably want to rejigger the schedule. Probably a "better" option would be to extend the Shoreliner somewhere further south (I might suggest CLT as a southern terminus, and you can pick which line you run it on). Honestly, extending the Shoreliner to CLT and having folks transfer at WAS (or doing through cars) wouldn't be absurd, and at that point you're looking at needing...three sleepers, maybe?


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## west point (Dec 3, 2022)

BOS does have a platform length problem. Will a possible 11 cae train eventually even fit? Might need to have drop and add cars at either WASH or NYP?


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## jis (Dec 3, 2022)

west point said:


> BOS does have a platform length problem. Will a possible 11 cae train eventually even fit? Might need to have drop and add cars at either WASH or NYP?


There are at least 4 platform tracks at BOS that can hold 14 car trains. So no problem.


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## Oreius (Dec 3, 2022)

I just arrived in Kissimmee. My ride on 91 was very nice overall. The VL2 sleeper is more comfortable than the VL1 both in terms of furnishings and ride itself. It doesn’t rock and shimmy like the VL1, which wasn’t as hard on my bad back. I had a young SCA named Monique. She was helpful. My only concern with the VL2 was the constant whirring whenever someone flushed a toilet in the car. I guess the sanitary system is right where the bedroom side of the car is. But, it wasn’t loud. I also liked the power outlets above the couch as well as the sink, sure beats using a 12 foot charging cable for the phone. I also checked out an unoccupied Roomette, and I think those look more comfortable than in the VL1 despite no potty. Overall, a great trip.


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## jis (Dec 3, 2022)

I will be on 91 on Monday (12/5) traveling from Deland to Tampa and then back the same day on 92, both ways in Roomette in Car 11, which should be a Viewliner II.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 3, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I just arrived in Kissimmee. My ride on 91 was very nice overall. The VL2 sleeper is more comfortable than the VL1 both in terms of furnishings and ride itself. It doesn’t rock and shimmy like the VL1, which wasn’t as hard on my bad back. I had a young SCA named Monique. She was helpful. My only concern with the VL2 was the constant whirring whenever someone flushed a toilet in the car. I guess the sanitary system is right where the bedroom side of the car is. But, it wasn’t loud. I also liked the power outlets above the couch as well as the sink, sure beats using a 12 foot charging cable for the phone. I also checked out an unoccupied Roomette, and I think those look more comfortable than in the VL1 despite no potty. Overall, a great trip.



You picked a great day to be in Florida instead of the mid-Atlantic! Steady rain all day today here. 

Glad you liked the new Viewliner!


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## Oreius (Dec 3, 2022)

I decided to book a trip on the Meteor (97) when I go down again in March. I’ll be in Car 9711 this time. I know the Meteor usually has 3 Sleepers, but I’m not sure which one(s) are the VL2…

It said “Only 1 Room Left” and I scarfed it. But, does that mean price wise or did I actually scarf the last available room?


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 3, 2022)

Oreius said:


> It said “Only 1 Room Left” and I scarfed it. But, does that mean price wise or did I actually scarf the last available room?



I believe it used to say “Only one room left at this price” when it was the last one at that bucket before it jumped.

And “sold out” when there really were no more left.

It’s been a while since I’ve been in an LD sleeper car, though, so I don’t know if that is still true—mire recent travelers will know better than I do


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## jis (Dec 3, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I decided to book a trip on the Meteor (97) when I go down again in March. I’ll be in Car 9711 this time. I know the Meteor usually has 3 Sleepers, but I’m not sure which one(s) are the VL2…
> 
> It said “Only 1 Room Left” and I scarfed it. But, does that mean price wise or did I actually scarf the last available room?


Meteor has only two Sleepers until January.

Usually 10 is VL I, 11 is VL II when it runs with two Sleepers.


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## joelkfla (Dec 10, 2022)

92 (09) had 2 VL II's.


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## jis (Dec 10, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> 92 (09) had 2 VL II's.


Was it actually two VL IIs or was one of the cars the Phase III striped VL I? That car has been on Silvers quite often these days.


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## joelkfla (Dec 10, 2022)

jis said:


> Was it actually two VL IIs or was one of the cars the Phase III striped VL I? That car has been on Silvers quite often these days.


Pretty sure it was actually 2 VL II's. It was too dark to see the underskirting, but both cars had the missing rear-most side window.

I'll double-check after it passes thru Ashland, where both sides of the car and the top conduit strip are visible.


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## joelkfla (Dec 10, 2022)

jis said:


> Was it actually two VL IIs or was one of the cars the Phase III striped VL I? That car has been on Silvers quite often these days.


Confirmed: 2 VL II's on 92(09).


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## UhClem (Dec 12, 2022)

12/12 9810 is a VL1 car 62011, 9811 is a VL2 Rivanna River
On board.


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## jis (Dec 12, 2022)

Tampa Union Station gets some TLC from local train and history buffs


Tampa Union Station gets some TLC from local trains and history buffs, Friends of Tampa Union Station.




www.abcactionnews.com


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## John Bredin (Dec 19, 2022)

I was looking at the Amtrak website for trips from Chicago to Tampa on random dates over the next few months, and I noticed something odd: the Silver Star seems to run _into_ Tampa from Washington, but the return trips all involve a bus from Tampa.  For the dates I checked (which were by no means comprehensive), two-segment all-rail is an option Chicago-Tampa but only mixed service with at least three segments are the options Tampa-Chicago.

Am I misreading this, or is Tampa the "roach motel" for Silver Stars, with trains coming in but not going out?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Dec 19, 2022)

The connection from the CL to SS in Washington is available southbound but not northbound. That is presumably because of a shorter connection time northbound and a higher chance of delays on the SS. I have made the connection from 92 to 29 by booking separate tickets, but it's risky and often gets missed.


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## John Bredin (Dec 19, 2022)

Males sense, thanks!


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## Qapla (Dec 19, 2022)

The southbound trip uses the Star to go from Washington to Tampa while the northbound uses the Meteor from Orlando to Washington to make the connection time - since the Meteor does not go to Tampa, the bus is needed for the northbound trip to get from Tampa to Orlando


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## John Bobinyec (Dec 19, 2022)

At least from Tampa to Chicago there is an option. From Raleigh there is only the convoluted Raleigh - Greensboro on 79, Greensboro - Washington on 20 and then Washington - Chicago on 29, with a 12 hour layover in Greensboro. This is according to Amtrak's reservation system.


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 21, 2022)

I've long thought the Star timing needs to be tweaked with some to make things a bit easier for going to No. 29 but also in reference to the other cities that only have the Star IE my home town in Columbia. But lets factor in NC/VA bought the former Seaboard if that could cut 45 minutes or even an hour from the timetable that would help the connection with No. 29. But at the same time you could tweak the schedule to get Columbia at a decent time without changing the NY arrival to steer clear of rush hour in New York. 

I also think we need to go back to think about routing the Meteor via Tampa too strictly because Brightline is going to kill the inner Florida traffic off those trains. Why take Amtrak which is many hours late and slower, when Brightline is frequent and mostly on time. So it is something to think about.


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## finleyd (Dec 31, 2022)

Can you book a Bedroom on the Silver Service for 1 adult and 2 children ages 9 and 7?


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## pennyk (Dec 31, 2022)

finleyd said:


> Can you book a Bedroom on the Silver Service for 1 adult and 2 children ages 9 and 7?


I have copied this from an "older" post from our resident "expert" on this topic @Ryan

Based on Chart 2, the answer appears to be yes. My guess is that you would have to speak to an agent to book this.


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## joelkfla (Dec 31, 2022)

finleyd said:


> Can you book a Bedroom on the Silver Service for 1 adult and 2 children ages 9 and 7?


Also, in case you didn't know, you only get one discounted child fare per adult, so you'll have to pay the full rail fare for one of them. There's only a single accommodations charge for the room, no matter how many occupy it.


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## lordsigma (Jan 4, 2023)

Not Superliner related but I spotted that 98 Meteor at Ashland today had a 12 sleeper as well. Order was 10 V2 11 V1 12 V2. Going to watch Folkston Ga in a bit to see if todays 98 also does.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 4, 2023)

lordsigma said:


> Not Superliner related but I spotted that 98 Meteor at Ashland today had a 12 sleeper as well. Order was 10 V2 11 V1 12 V2. Going to watch Folkston Ga in a bit to see if todays 98 also does.


Yep, I caught 98 in Delaware this morning with the 3 sleepers.


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## lordsigma (Jan 4, 2023)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Yep, I caught 98 in Delaware this morning with the 3 sleepers.


3 again today on 98 Folkston GA - same order.


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## joelkfla (Jan 4, 2023)

lordsigma said:


> 3 again today on 98 Folkston GA - same order.


97(3) still had just 2. 97(4) should hit Ashland around 9:25 pm.

I have tickets booked on 97 & 98 in May, and both have 3 sleepers available.


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## joelkfla (Jan 4, 2023)

Looks like the Meteor is back to 3 sleepers:
https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/atlantic-coast-service-discussion.80969/page-6#post-991052


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## joelkfla (Jan 4, 2023)

lordsigma said:


> 3 again today on 98 Folkston GA - same order.


97 (4) just came thru Ashland with 2 sleepers, so 98 (3) must have been the first Meteor having 3.


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## lordsigma (Jan 5, 2023)

I think today's 98 out of Miami is the Palm Beach Safety Patrol special. Made no stops after leaving Miami except it stopped for a while at Mangonia point Tri Rail station and train is blocked as sold out.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 5, 2023)

Look at the expected departure times for WAS - NYP. I think you’re right.


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## Mailliw (Jan 5, 2023)

pennyk said:


> I have copied this from an "older" post from our resident "expert" on this topic @Ryan
> 
> Based on Chart 2, the answer appears to be yes. My guess is that you would have to speak to an agent to book this.
> 
> ...


What is a Business Travel Roomette? Is it code for deadhead crew accommodation?


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## ascii42 (Jan 5, 2023)

Mailliw said:


> What is a Business Travel Roomette? Is it code for deadhead crew accommodation?


Curiously, I managed to find a page, though it's not listed in the menu:








Business Travel Roomette | Amtrak


Roomettes are located on both upper and lower levels of our double-decker Amtrak Superliner train cars, ideal for one or two passengers with comfortable seats and other amenities.




www.amtrak.com


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## Mailliw (Jan 5, 2023)

How is that any different from a Roomette?


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## OBS (Jan 5, 2023)

Mailliw said:


> How is that any different from a Roomette?


It isn't. It is just a room blocked for management travel or last minute pass riders.


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## joelkfla (Jan 5, 2023)

joelkfla said:


> 97 (4) just came thru Ashland with 2 sleepers, so 98 (3) must have been the first Meteor having 3.


Yep, today's 97 has 3 sleepers.


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## mediaman (Jan 6, 2023)

OBS said:


> It isn't. It is just a room blocked for management travel or last minute pass riders.


The description says “meals not included”.


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## jis (Jan 6, 2023)

mediaman said:


> The description says “meals not included”.


Which is consistent with Amtrak employees not getting free meals.


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## lordsigma (Jan 6, 2023)

Consist of 98(5) as observed at Ashland webcam, which was the safety patrol train, had two P42 four Amfleet 1 coaches, four Amfleet 2 coaches, lounge, diner, 3 sleepers, baggage.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 6, 2023)

jis said:


> Which is consistent with Amtrak employees not getting free meals.


I know that Amtrak Employees traveling on passes or on Business in Sleepers don't get Free Meals, and since the Introduction of Fresh and Contemporary/Flex Meals, aren't supposed to eat them while On Duty without paying.

In the Before times however, on Duty OBS ( but not T&E Employees) were entitled to Free Contemporary Meals in the Diner.


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## jis (Jan 6, 2023)

Bob Dylan said:


> I know that Amtrak Employees traveling on passes or on Business in Sleepers don't get Free Meals, and since the Introduction of Fresh and Contemporary/Flex Meals, aren't supposed to eat them while On Duty without paying.
> 
> In the Before times however, on Duty OBS ( but not T&E Employees) were entitled to Free Contemporary Meals in the Diner.


Yes. But the Business Roomette is about Amtrak employees traveling on business or on Pass. It is not for Amtrak OBS employees on duty in provided accommodation. As you say a different set of rules distinct from the Business Roomette rules apply to them.


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## lordsigma (Jan 6, 2023)

Bob Dylan said:


> I know that Amtrak Employees traveling on passes or on Business in Sleepers don't get Free Meals, and since the Introduction of Fresh and Contemporary/Flex Meals, aren't supposed to eat them while On Duty without paying.
> 
> In the Before times however, on Duty OBS ( but not T&E Employees) were entitled to Free Contemporary Meals in the Diner.


Wouldn't be surprised if the latter is still the case. The flex meals are an inventoried item and a crew member eating those costs a lot more than the equivalent product in a traditional diner - the food costs for flex dining are higher.


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## jis (Jan 6, 2023)

John Bredin said:


> I was looking at the Amtrak website for trips from Chicago to Tampa on random dates over the next few months, and I noticed something odd: the Silver Star seems to run _into_ Tampa from Washington, but the return trips all involve a bus from Tampa.  For the dates I checked (which were by no means comprehensive), two-segment all-rail is an option Chicago-Tampa but only mixed service with at least three segments are the options Tampa-Chicago.
> 
> Am I misreading this, or is Tampa the "roach motel" for Silver Stars, with trains coming in but not going out?


The northbound Star has no legal connection with the Cap, that is why you are only being shown the Bus - Meteor - Cap itinerary.


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## OBS (Jan 6, 2023)

lordsigma said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if the latter is still the case. The flex meals are an inventoried item and a crew member eating those costs a lot more than the equivalent product in a traditional diner - the food costs for flex dining are higher.


I doubt there are any employees interested in eating the flex meals


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## lordsigma (Jan 6, 2023)

OBS said:


> I doubt there are any employees interested in eating the flex meals


I'm sure you're right ESPECIALLY not for the prices they were talking.


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## west point (Jan 6, 2023)

The problem with the TPA - bus - Meteor - WASH connection is that the Meteor is selling out even in this winter time.


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## jis (Jan 7, 2023)

west point said:


> The problem with the TPA - bus - Meteor - WASH connection is that the Meteor is selling out even in this winter time.


Would you rather that no connection be presented just because it might not be available due to sold out conditions, or present it and let it be booked if available. There is a general problem of equipment that is not completing inspection due to staff shortage, and as that gets fixed this will also get fixed. Until then the itinerary may not be available as often as desired, as is the case with many other itineraries.


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## pennyk (Jan 8, 2023)

I just saw 97(7) pass through Orlando. 3 coaches; cafe; dining car; 3 sleepers (10 and 12 were V2 and 11 was V1 - which appears to be the "normal" consist now). 

..and it was on time.


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## lordsigma (Jan 8, 2023)

jis said:


> Would you rather that no connection be presented just because it might not be available due to sold out conditions, or present it and let it be booked if available. There is a general problem of equipment that is not completing inspection due to staff shortage, and as that gets fixed this will also get fixed. Until then the itinerary may not be available as often as desired, as is the case with many other itineraries.


And The 12 sleeper being back should help with the longer haul folks going in sleeper. And looking out the next two weeks the only day I could find where the Tampa meteor bus option was not available was the second safety patrol special which is next Thursday/Sunday.


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## JWJD126 (Jan 8, 2023)

What is the Safety Patrol Special? It is running today.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 8, 2023)

JWJD126 said:


> What is the Safety Patrol Special? It is running today.


It’s an annual trip from Palm Beach area to D.C. for their Safety Patrol kids.
97 left NYP early today and will dwell in WAS for about 3-1/2 hours while they add additional cars and board the group to return home.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 8, 2023)

97(8) through Newark, DE


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## joelkfla (Jan 8, 2023)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It’s an annual trip from Palm Beach area to D.C. for their Safety Patrol kids.
> 97 left NYP early today and will dwell in WAS for about 3-1/2 hours while they add additional cars and board the group to return home.


I don't understand why this requires an extra 3 hours. Why can't they just assemble the cars behind the diesel, load the kids up, and then slap it onto the front of the train, as Amtrak does every day with the Auto Train and VIArail with the Canadian at Vancouver?


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## MARC Rider (Jan 8, 2023)

joelkfla said:


> I don't understand why this requires an extra 3 hours. Why can't they just assemble the cars behind the diesel, load the kids up, and then slap it onto the front of the train, as Amtrak does every day with the Auto Train and VIArail with the Canadian at Vancouver?


I'm not sure, but I would suspect that the trainset was the one that was being used for 98 the previous day. I mean, Amtrak's service standards aren't so low that they'd just dump everyone off 98 in Washington and put them on a bunch of Amfleet 1 coaches for the ride to New York, just so they could have the trainset positioned in Washington. It probably spends the night in Sunnyside getting the usual servicing, and then gets sent down to Washington in its usual slot.


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## joelkfla (Jan 8, 2023)

MARC Rider said:


> I'm not sure, but I would suspect that the trainset was the one that was being used for 98 the previous day. I mean, Amtrak's service standards aren't so low that they'd just dump everyone off 98 in Washington and put them on a bunch of Amfleet 1 coaches for the ride to New York, just so they could have the trainset positioned in Washington. It probably spends the night in Sunnyside getting the usual servicing, and then gets sent down to Washington in its usual slot.


But @AmtrakBlue said they were adding cars in WAS. I don't see why it should take 3 hours to add cars.


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## AmtrakBlue (Monday at 5:33 AM)

joelkfla said:


> But @AmtrakBlue said they were adding cars in WAS. I don't see why it should take 3 hours to add cars.


It deadheaded to WAS, so maybe they just wanted to make sure everything was ready for its normal departure time from WAS so as not to lose its slot on CSX tracks.
Also, I read somewhere, I think, that they arrange the cars with coaches on both sides of the cafe & diner … to keep the girls and boys separated overnight. .


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## Septa9739 (Monday at 8:12 AM)

I watched the cam through Ashland last night. I counted 8 coaches four Amfleet I, four Amfleet II, then cafe, diner, three sleepers, and a baggage.


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## Anderson (Monday at 8:22 AM)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It’s an annual trip from Palm Beach area to D.C. for their Safety Patrol kids.
> 97 left NYP early today and will dwell in WAS for about 3-1/2 hours while they add additional cars and board the group to return home.


This explains why 97 was showing up as sold out (I considered it as an option for going home from Magfest; instead, I'm indulging in a "train day" on the Acela).


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## joelkfla (Monday at 10:34 AM)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It deadheaded to WAS, so maybe they just wanted to make sure everything was ready for its normal departure time from WAS so as not to lose its slot on CSX tracks.
> Also, I read somewhere, I think, that they arrange the cars with coaches on both sides of the cafe & diner … to keep the girls and boys separated overnight. .


Oh ... I didn't know that it ran empty from NYP. So really, it's a private train. This would be a good candidate for an "extra section", if only Amtrak had enough equipment and staff to make it so.


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## AmtrakBlue (Monday at 11:20 AM)

joelkfla said:


> Oh ... I didn't know that it ran empty from NYP. So really, it's a private train. This would be a good candidate for an "extra section", if only Amtrak had enough equipment and staff to make it so.


It used to be its own train years ago.


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## Anderson (Monday at 11:52 AM)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It used to be its own train years ago.


Well, and Amtrak also used to do three trains/day NYP-Florida with some mix of splits and so on.

I'd argue that Amtrak, at a minimum, has no excuse for not having the 12 sleeper in regular play on the Meteor or the Star (I'd argue they should have it on both). They have 75 Viewliner sleepers and only 17 sets to use them on. Three sleepers on each would "only" be 51; add in three (for the Boston LSL) and that's 54. 21 spare/shop is _way _more than enough to cover (I think that number "should" be closer to 15).


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## jis (Monday at 12:54 PM)

Anderson said:


> Well, and Amtrak also used to do three trains/day NYP-Florida with some mix of splits and so on.
> 
> I'd argue that Amtrak, at a minimum, has no excuse for not having the 12 sleeper in regular play on the Meteor or the Star (I'd argue they should have it on both). They have 75 Viewliner sleepers and only 17 sets to use them on. Three sleepers on each would "only" be 51; add in three (for the Boston LSL) and that's 54. 21 spare/shop is _way _more than enough to cover (I think that number "should" be closer to 15).


The only saving grace is that they actually have a plan to get the 12 Sleeper on both the Meteor and the Star, the Star a year or two down the line, the Meteor this year.

The Viewliner II Sleeper order was designed to allow one Sleeper to be added to each of the single level LD trains. But once they got the VL II Sleepers in service they promptly parked almost an exact equal number of Viewliner Is under some pretext or the other. Go figure.


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## RebelRider (Monday at 12:57 PM)

Anderson said:


> Well, and Amtrak also used to do three trains/day NYP-Florida with some mix of splits and so on.
> 
> I'd argue that Amtrak, at a minimum, has no excuse for not having the 12 sleeper in regular play on the Meteor or the Star (I'd argue they should have it on both). They have 75 Viewliner sleepers and only 17 sets to use them on. Three sleepers on each would "only" be 51; add in three (for the Boston LSL) and that's 54. 21 spare/shop is _way _more than enough to cover (I think that number "should" be closer to 15).



Not that it makes any difference to your completely valid argument that the fleet is woefully underutilized, there are only 74 sleepers on the roster. One Viewliner I Sleeper was stricken from the roster after Cayce, SC.


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## joelkfla (Monday at 3:10 PM)

Anderson said:


> Well, and Amtrak also used to do three trains/day NYP-Florida with some mix of splits and so on.
> 
> I'd argue that Amtrak, at a minimum, has no excuse for not having the 12 sleeper in regular play on the Meteor or the Star (I'd argue they should have it on both). They have 75 Viewliner sleepers and only 17 sets to use them on. Three sleepers on each would "only" be 51; add in three (for the Boston LSL) and that's 54. 21 spare/shop is _way _more than enough to cover (I think that number "should" be closer to 15).


The Meteor has been running with 3 sleepers since last week. Back to the pre-pandemic consist: VL II, VL I, VL II.


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## Anderson (Monday at 3:44 PM)

RebelRider said:


> Not that it makes any difference to your completely valid argument that the fleet is woefully underutilized, there are only 74 sleepers on the roster. One Viewliner I Sleeper was stricken from the roster after Cayce, SC.


Noted. I had forgotten that, but you're right that it doesn't fundamentally alter the underlying math (it would only really matter in a near-full utilization scenario where we were talking about the ability to "slip one more car on train X or Y", and then we'd probably be talking about periodic mobilization vs full-time mobilization for a few cars' worth of capacity).


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## jis (Tuesday at 12:34 AM)

According to @AmtrakAlerts 97(9) and 98(9) are diverting via the S Line (Columbia, Raleigh) due to CSX freight derailment on the A Line. Presumably 52(9) and 53(9) are also diverting via the S Line. 

89(10) will terminate at WAS and 90(10) will originate at WAS.


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## AmtrakBlue (Tuesday at 4:48 AM)

jis said:


> According to @AmtrakAlerts 97(9) and 98(9) are diverting via the S Line (Columbia, Raleigh) due to CSX freight derailment on the A Line. Presumably 52(9) and 53(9) are also diverting via the S Line.
> 
> 89(10) will terminate at WAS and 90(10) will originate at WAS.


Yes, the auto trains also diverted. 98 had to back up to SAV and they added it to 92, so there’s a super train heading up on the s-line.

Edit: And now I’ve heard they’re adding freight engines to the auto trains because they can’t handle the hills on the s-line.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 7:02 AM)

I guess that explains the long night of stops and starts (mostly stops) in NC. Currently on 97(9) sitting at the CSX facility outside of Hamlet waiting for...new crew, clear track, something? Guess it's gonna be a long time before I get to Orlando today! Hopefully some more information will be passed along as everyone wakes up, but it's not looking like a good day to have plans.

Edit: after speaking with our (most excellent) SCA, we are awaiting a new crew and then (hopefully) back on our way with significant delays). She said someone tried to beat a train at a crossing, therefore here we are.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 8:27 AM)

Latest update from the conductor is that the crew from the combined 92/98(9) will be taking over 97(9) once they arrive in Hamlet. They aren't expected to arrive here for another 90 minutes.

Edit: Train 52(9) just came through Hamlet at 8:55AM and we are rolling forward, but I'm guessing we are not going to go far if we are waiting for 92/98.


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## moosejunky99 (Tuesday at 8:56 AM)

Looks like the auto train got axed. Must be due to the hills on the S-line as well as the derailment.


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## jis (Tuesday at 9:32 AM)

moosejunky99 said:


> View attachment 31009
> 
> 
> Looks like the auto train got axed. Must be due to the hills on the S-line as well as the derailment.


The Auto Trains of the 9th diverted via the S Line and are arriving very late at their destinations. That is what is causing the cancellation of the Auto Trains of the 10th. very late arrival of equipment.



Chief0792 said:


> Edit: after speaking with our (most excellent) SCA, we are awaiting a new crew and then (hopefully) back on our way with significant delays). She said someone tried to beat a train at a crossing, therefore here we are.



The freight train derailment on the A Line was the result of the freight train colliding with a road vehicle at a grade crossing putting 20 freight cars on the ground,


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 10:17 AM)

The latest update from our conductor is that the crew on 92(9) timed out, so Amtrak is sending management (his words) south to bring the train to Hamlet so that crew can leave the train, and then a new crew will be taking our train onwards after 92 heads out of Hamlet. His announcement ended with "feel free to call the 800 number to let them know your situation, maybe they'll have more information than we have to give you." It's clearly gonna be a long day, cafe car attendant just make an announcement that she is telling a break because it's been a long, hard day and she doesn't want to get sick (I can only imagine what it's like there). But hey, there is heat and power and cell service and so far, food.

Edit: If nothing else, the onboard crew is doing better than usual updating passengers. On the downside, they don't have much to offer and you can hear their own frustration with that. Still waiting as of 11:28AM for a fresh crew to get 92(9) into Hamlet, then out of the station so we can (hopefully) get moving again.


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## jis (Tuesday at 10:20 AM)

Chief0792 said:


> The latest update from our conductor is that the crew on 92(9) timed out, so Amtrak is sending management (his words) south to bring the train to Hamlet so that crew can leave the train, and then a new crew will be taking our train onwards after 92 heads out of Hamlet. His announcement ended with "feel free to call the 800 number to let them know your situation, maybe they'll have more information than we have to give you." It's clearly gonna be a long day, cafe car attendant just make an announcement that she is telling a break because it's been a long, hard day and she doesn't want to get sick (I can only imagine what it's like there). But hey, there is heat and power and cell service and so far, food.


Good to have someone like you on the scene to keep us posted. Thank you for your continued periodic updates!


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 12:33 PM)

Latest update for 97(9): Conductors said that a CSX crew will be coming on board and taking the train to Florence. Since I can't imagine we'd be backtracking again, and involves a CSX crew, I'd guess that it is over different trackage. The more ominous part of the announcement was "when we get to Florence we'll figure out the game plan from there. We don't want to give you any information that will turn out to be wrong." We'll see what actually occurs

The combined 92/98 just passed us headed out of Hamlet. Interesting to see the two lashed together that way - with the motive power for one right after the baggage car of the other. First time I've seen that and wish I got it on video (wasn't expecting that!).


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## joelkfla (Tuesday at 12:40 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> The latest update from our conductor is that the crew on 92(9) timed out


You'd think they'd have been able to figure that out sooner. 



Chief0792 said:


> The combined 92/98 just passed us headed out of Hamlet. Interesting to see the two lashed together that way - with the motive power for one right after the baggage car of the other. First time I've seen that and wish I got it on video (wasn't expecting that!).


Waiting to see it pass by the Ashland railcam. Should be about 10-15 minutes after departing Richmond. Looks like it'll be after dark, though.


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## jis (Tuesday at 12:53 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> The combined 92/98 just passed us headed out of Hamlet. Interesting to see the two lashed together that way - with the motive power for one right after the baggage car of the other. First time I've seen that and wish I got it on video (wasn't expecting that!).


That is exactly how they combine 29 and 49 when necessary too.


Chief0792 said:


> Latest update for 97(9): Conductors said that a CSX crew will be coming on board and taking the train to Florence. Since I can't imagine we'd be backtracking again, and involves a CSX crew, I'd guess that it is over different trackage. The more ominous part of the announcement was "when we get to Florence we'll figure out the game plan from there. We don't want to give you any information that will turn out to be wrong." We'll see what actually occurs


I guess you will get some trackage normally not traversed by Amtrak, the route from Hamlet to Dillon where it joins the A Line.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 1:15 PM)

Well, at least it's daytime and it will be something different to see. Looking at things, if they do this it means we'd be on the Andrews Sub to Dillon - which looks like a slow ride but at least moving somewhere? Unless that game plan changes - we've been at Hamlet station for a while now.


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## jis (Tuesday at 1:30 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> Well, at least it's daytime and it will be something different to see. Looking at things, if they do this it means we'd be on the Andrews Sub to Dillon - which looks like a slow ride but at least moving somewhere? Unless that game plan changes - we've been at Hamlet station for a while now.


This suggests that the A Line might be close to be available at Lake City SC where the derailment occurred. Lake City, marked by the Red marker in the map below, is between Florence and Charleston.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 1:50 PM)

jis said:


> This suggests that the A Line might be close to be available at Lake City SC where the derailment occurred. Lake City (marked by the Red marker in the map below, is between Florence and Charleston.


That is what I was wondering and might explain why we have been sitting at Hamlet station for well over an hour now...perhaps they are waiting to see if they tracks will be passable before they cut back over to the A Line as opposed to staying on the S Line. I do wish they would be forthcoming with _some _kind of information so I can give my bride a better update than "I guess I will see you when I see you." Communication with passengers is most certainly not a strength for Amtrak.


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## AmtrakBlue (Tuesday at 2:01 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> That is what I was wondering and might explain why we have been sitting at Hamlet station for well over an hour now...perhaps they are waiting to see if they tracks will be passable before they cut back over to the A Line as opposed to staying on the S Line. I do wish they would be forthcoming with _some _kind of information so I can give my bride a better update than "I guess I will see you when I see you." Communication with passengers is most certainly not a strength for Amtrak.


Perhaps they’re waiting for information from CSX.


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## Palmland (Tuesday at 2:13 PM)

I'm surprised they're considering a Dillon detour this late. Seems it would be faster just to continue on your normal route especially since I suspect the A line will have lots of delayed freights waiting for a track to open. It's about 40 miles to Dillon and another 30 to Florence - probably close to a couple hours. AutoTrain may have used the only available Amtrak crew on the S line.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 2:25 PM)

Palmland said:


> I'm surprised they're considering a Dillon detour this late. Seems it would be faster just to continue on your normal route especially since I suspect the A line will have lots of delayed freights waiting for a track to open. It's about 40 miles to Dillon and another 30 to Florence - probably close to a couple hours. AutoTrain may have used the only available Amtrak crew on the S line.


Beats me. They just backed us out of the station to the very same place we sat for most of the night and called all the SCAs to the Cafe Car, which is closing for service. Conductor walked through the car and someone asked what was going to happen and he just said he'd make an announcement to the whole train...and then an announcement was made but no one could hear it because the volume was so low (and none of the SCAs are currently nearby) so I guess we shall wait and see. Perhaps it's on to whatever Plan C might be at this point.


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 2:35 PM)

Final update - bustitution to final destinations for all.


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## jis (Tuesday at 2:39 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> Final update - bustitution to final destinations for all.


Aaargh! But it is better than no alternate service provided, which tended to have become their go to playbook in the Anderson years.

I guess they will somehow get the consist to Miami by some route by late tonight. Not having to deal with passengers will make it a somewhat more achievable task I suppose.


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## railiner (Tuesday at 3:27 PM)

joelkfla said:


> Oh ... I didn't know that it ran empty from NYP. So really, it's a private train. This would be a good candidate for an "extra section", if only Amtrak had enough equipment and staff to make it so.


I thought, from a previous thread we had on the subject, that the WPB Safety Patrol was getting away from this annual train(s) excursion, and switching to flying?

My grandson is a member, and he is flying later this month…


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 4:23 PM)

jis said:


> Aaargh! But it is better than no alternate service provided, which tended to have become their go to playbook in the Anderson years.
> 
> I guess they will somehow get the consist to Miami by some route by late tonight. Not having to deal with passengers will make it a somewhat more achievable task I suppose.


Seems so. Not my first rodeo with a bustitution but wish they had decided this sooner. Guessing it was not easy finding charters bit not looking forward to 8 hours on a full bus


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## jis (Tuesday at 4:26 PM)

Chief0792 said:


> Seems so. Not my first rodeo with a bustitution but wish they had decided this sooner. Guessing it was not easy finding charters bit not looking forward to 8 hours on a full bus


Did you find out from your SCA what is happening with them? That might give a clue as to what is happening with the consist.


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## joelkfla (Tuesday at 4:50 PM)

Auto Train 52(9) hit Ashland @ 16:44. No extra engines; if they did add them, they took them off before Ashland.


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## OBS (Tuesday at 6:46 PM)

joelkfla said:


> Auto Train 52(9) hit Ashland @ 16:44. No extra engines; if they did add them, they took them off before Ashland.


undoubtedly would have come off in RVR if there were any...


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## Chief0792 (Tuesday at 7:44 PM)

jis said:


> Did you find out from your SCA what is happening with them? That might give a clue as to what is happening with the consist.


She didn't know beyond the fact that they were being bussed as well, by the sound of it all the way to Miami. She was beyond frustrated at the lack of information any of them got. They were in the dark about the plans up to the point they were called together in the cafe car.


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## joelkfla (Tuesday at 8:08 PM)

92/98(9) has been stop & go just north of Richmond. People chatting on the Ashland webcam say there is a disabled vehicle blocking the tracks. NER 93 has been sitting at Ashland station for 25 minutes.


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## joelkfla (Tuesday at 8:56 PM)

92 & 98 were uncombined somewhere south of Ashland.  92 finally came thru Ashland, followed by 98 a few minutes later, with normal consists.

Someone on the chat who said he was working on 98 said he had heard that 52 & 53 each had 3 freight locos added for the S-line transit.


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