# Trip Review, Buffalo to SDY (Schenectady) and back....



## Mike S. (Mar 14, 2007)

Trip review time guys, as promised.

I was booked on an Empire Service #282 out of Buffalo (Depew) to SDY (Schenectady) and back on #49 LSL. As an interesting note, I saw that Empire Service trains actually do have names, but they are never referred to them on the Amtrak website. However, other regional trains in MI and IL all have names. At any rate, the board said #282, The Water Level Express, obviously going back to the "Water Level Route" in the New York Central days.

I arrived at the station, in my typical style, at 6:40am for a 6:45am departure!  I knew this train would be on time since it originates in Niagara Falls an there really isn't anything to hold it up on the way to Buffalo. To my surprise, the train station was PACKED! What gives? SPRING BREAK, DOH! However, there were also lots of other non-spring break travelers too. You guys will be happy to know the train was completely sold out. I got my ticket from the agent as the train was rolling into the station. Only a few minutes to board, even with the crowd. Those conductors know how to load a train. I walked up to the cafe car door that was open knowing I'd sit up there since I had a Business Class ticket. The conductor told me to proceed past the cafe and into BC. As Alan said, BC did have the 2-1 seating in a half cafe/ half BC split, however, the seats did NOT have faux leather, so I guess it wasn't an ex-metorliner car, just the regular blue Amfleet II long distance seats, in an Amfleet I car.

Impressions: Mixed bag. The car is a good bit louder since you're so close to the engine. You hear the horn ALL the time (maybe not a bad thing) and the car vibrates much more as the train turns, almost as if it was grinding, none of that on the way home in regular coach (more on that in a bit). The car was somewhat dirty, mostly the carpets and vinyl floors in the front near the phone. They need to clean better and more often. Definitely disappointed there. Also, the sliding door on the phone booth kept slamming back and forth as the train braked or accelerated. And last but not least, my power plug didn't work! The train basically ran right on time. Cafe car attendant was cool, brought me a newspaper to boot! The head conductor was nice and informative and all station stops were called out clearly. No need for any other announcements as the train was right on time.

The EPSA meeting in SDY was great. Met some cool people, lots of passenger info about Amtrak and things to come. Really enjoyed it. I'll be back.

My ride back on 49 started rough. First off, the train left 3 hours late from NYC. WHAT GIVES? I mean, Amtrak, get your **** together. The train ran right on schedule once it left NYC, but leaving 3 hours late is unacceptable. After waiting for what seemed like forever, 49 rolled into SDY about 2.5 hours late. Basically it didn't wait the 30 mins it normally does in ALB. It must have just picked up Boston people and left. The Amfleet II's back in the coach section were so much more quiet than my BC ride next to engine on the way up. No noise except pleasant wheel sounds when running at 80mph. I ventured up to the Diner which was still open at about 10:30pm, probably b/c they got such a late start. What a dumpy diner! It was not the pink style interior heritage diner (with the little stars in the ceiling) I had on my trip last year. What railroad had this diner before? At any rate, this was maybe an ex-Southern? diner and was dirty, way too bright, and ugly. It had this tall ceiling effect with way too many lights. I felt like I was on stage. NO ATMOSPHERE. After wolfing down a burger (really good I might add) it was off to my seat to sleep. I was beat and couldn't wait to get home. My coach was somewhat clean, but in the dark, who would know if it was dirty! 

All in all, I had a good time. I always enjoy the train, but I just desperately want it to be better. I let Amtrak know right away with their 3 day survey that they are pushing.

Mike S.


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## AlanB (Mar 14, 2007)

Mike,

First, I'm going to move this over to the Trip Report forums, since it is a trip report.  And thanks for the report. 



Mike S. said:


> As Alan said, BC did have the 2-1 seating in a half cafe/ half BC split, however, the seats did NOT have faux leather, so I guess it wasn't an ex-metorliner car, just the regular blue Amfleet II long distance seats, in an Amfleet I car.


Actually that almost guarantees that it was an ex-metroliner, as they didn't have faux leather either. At some point during the conversions, they started doing the new faux leather, so I guess that your car was one of the early conversions and hasn't been back to the shop to receive the recovered seats. There were other food service cars also converted to Club-Dinettes, but those other cars however never had 2 & 1 seating, so they would most likely have the new faux leather seats, as they had to be installed during the conversion.



Mike S. said:


> I ventured up to the Diner which was still open at about 10:30pm, probably b/c they got such a late start. What a dumpy diner! It was not the pink style interior heritage diner (with the little stars in the ceiling) I had on my trip last year. What railroad had this diner before? At any rate, this was maybe an ex-Southern? diner and was dirty, way too bright, and ugly. It had this tall ceiling effect with way too many lights. I felt like I was on stage. NO ATMOSPHERE. After wolfing down a burger (really good I might add) it was off to my seat to sleep.


All of Amtrak's single level diners are that old technically, however about half of the fleet received what is called the Temoinsa rebuilds. This was basically a kit that gutted the inside of the car and installed all new stuff inside the car. So when you see what appears to be a new car on the inside, you're really riding in a 60+ year old car that got new insides. However, everything else on the car is largely still original or at least of original designs from 60 years ago.


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## George Harris (Mar 15, 2007)

AlanB said:


> All of Amtrak's single level diners are that old technically, however about half of the fleet received what is called the Temoinsa rebuilds. This was basically a kit that gutted the inside of the car and installed all new stuff inside the car. So when you see what appears to be a new car on the inside, you're really riding in a 60+ year old car that got new insides. However, everything else on the car is largely still original or at least of original designs from 60 years ago.


Fortunately, a stainless steel car body of the 30's to 50's era seems to have an almsot unlimited life. 100 years plus looks to be obtainable. It is just that there was so much change in the basics of trasnportation technology in the 1800 to 1950 era we have the mindset left over that more than a few years old is obsolete. I remember my father's shock at seeing DC-3's still flying after 15 plus years in the early 50's, yet you can today find yourself *crossing the Pacific Ocean* in a 747 that is over 20 years old. Some may even be over 30 years old by now.

George


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## had8ley (Mar 15, 2007)

George Harris said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > All of Amtrak's single level diners are that old technically, however about half of the fleet received what is called the Temoinsa rebuilds. This was basically a kit that gutted the inside of the car and installed all new stuff inside the car. So when you see what appears to be a new car on the inside, you're really riding in a 60+ year old car that got new insides. However, everything else on the car is largely still original or at least of original designs from 60 years ago.
> ...


Heck, Northwest is still flying DC-9's~ the NEWEST of which was built in 1972 !!! Would not want to know the oldest date in the fleet...


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## XNWA (Mar 15, 2007)

had8ley said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Those DC-9's that Northwest are flying still are the most reliable and have the best maintance records.


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2007)

George Harris said:


> Fortunately, a stainless steel car body of the 30's to 50's era seems to have an almsot unlimited life. 100 years plus looks to be obtainable. It is just that there was so much change in the basics of trasnportation technology in the 1800 to 1950 era we have the mindset left over that more than a few years old is obsolete.


That however is the mindset of Amtrak, so unless they sell these cars off upon their retirement, I don't think that we'll see any survive for 100 years. And I don't think that they'll remain in service for Amtrak for much longer, I'd say 5 years max. Already Amtrak has retired all of the old single level crew dorms, rather than continuing to provide the needed maintenance to keep them on the road.

This of course means that every single level train now loses 5 to 6 revenue rooms in a Viewliner sleeper.


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## Mike S. (Mar 15, 2007)

Alan,

Yea, I was well aware that all the diners are really old, its just that since this one seemed so original it was depressing! Old, dirty, ugly. Everything you WOUDLDN'T want to eat in.

Where were the Temoinsa rebuilds done? It doesn't look that new. In fact, it looks very 1950's ish...unless that was the look they were going for. My dinner from last May had the pink ceiling, with tiny little holes that looked like stars. The seats at the tables were more or less two sperate seats pushed together rather than one bench seat. The main theme of the car was pink and the seats were blue.

But yea, I knew all the dinners were old.


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2007)

Mike S. said:


> Where were the Temoinsa rebuilds done? It doesn't look that new. In fact, it looks very 1950's ish...unless that was the look they were going for. My dinner from last May had the pink ceiling, with tiny little holes that looked like stars. The seats at the tables were more or less two sperate seats pushed together rather than one bench seat. The main theme of the car was pink and the seats were blue.


Mike,

I'm not sure, but it almost seems to me that you're confusing the two. :unsure: The Temoinsa rebuild is the car that had the pink ceiling with the stars that come out at night. The car that you just saw sounds more like an orginal that most likely had it's fixed tables installed either right before Amtrak took over passenger service or right after. Originally most diners did not have fixed tables and bench seats, but I believe at some point along the way the FRA decided that was unsafe and mandated fixed tables and seats.

Now turning to the Temoinsa rebuilds, I believe that the work was done at Beech Grove, but I'm not positive. The work was largely done between 1999 and 2001. The kits for the rebuilds were supplied by *Té*cnicas *Mo*dulares e *In*dustriales *S.A.* (Temoinsa) a company headquartered in Spain. The company supplied 14 kits, but only 11 cars were converted, 3 kits remain unused even today at Beech Grove. And I believe that there is little hope that those kits will ever get used.

With the 11 cars converted, that left 9 diners/diner grills in service with the old decor.


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## Mike S. (Mar 15, 2007)

Nope, no confusion. I guess I'm not that impressed with the Temoinsa rebuilds! I mean, its not that bad, but it looks like an old rebuild. I didn't mean to ask where, but WHEN were the rebuilds done. The non-rebuilt dinners suck, just to be clear. hehehehe.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Mar 15, 2007)

AlanB said:


> With the 11 cars converted, that left 9 diners/diner grills in service with the old decor.


What is the difference between a diner and diner-grill?


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## cee (Mar 15, 2007)

the thing i noticed about the diner rebuild that had the stars in the ceiling (which i loved) was that there was absolutely more room between the seats & the table--don't know where they took it from, but as a large chick i was delighted! for once i was comfortable


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2007)

cee said:


> the thing i noticed about the diner rebuild that had the stars in the ceiling (which i loved) was that there was absolutely more room between the seats & the table--don't know where they took it from, but as a large chick i was delighted! for once i was comfortable


In the diners, they dropped two tables, decreasing the capacity of the diner by 8. They used to seat 48 passengers, now down to 40.

Oddly enough though, and I'm not quite sure just what the differences are, the diner grill conversions managed to keep the original capacity of 48.


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## Amtrak Kid (Mar 28, 2007)

Diner Grills have griddles, so it can feed more people, diner grills were originally converted for the Silver Star in the 80s, Amtrak only converted a few diners to Temoinsa because of the windows, 2 were former Buffet Lounge's and 1 was an ex SP. I like the older diners, they are the last remaining heritage cars with the old interiors.

Corey


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## AlanB (Mar 28, 2007)

Amtrak Kid said:


> Amtrak only converted a few diners to Temoinsa because of the windows, 2 were former Buffet Lounge's and 1 was an ex SP.


Actually Amtrak converted half of the diners to the Temoinsa rebuild. Ten out of 19 functioning diners at the time received the Temoinsa rebuild kits, while 3 out of 5 diner grills received the rebuild. Unfortunately 4 out of the 19 diners have since been taken off Amtrak's active roster, 2 of which did receive the rebuild.

By the way in reviewing old roster numbers, I note that those figures above conflict with my earlier post way above. I hadn't realized that two of the Temoinsa rebuilt diners had been retired. So that would leave only 1 kit still sitting unused, not 3 as I stated above.


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