# SF and LA on SleepBus



## Seaboard92

When I was pursuing Facebook yesterday I saw someone post this interesting link to a new company in California. There is now a new way to go from SFO to LAX via the overnight bus. Instead of sitting in a seat the passengers lay down in something like a open section from the Pullman Days. I find it an interesting little operation. And if it works it proves there is a market for an overnight train between the two points as well. The prices seem fairly reasonable all things considered. And it looks like a nice bus. From a business stand point the 28 bunk bus brings in 1820 a run, and the 12 bunk bus brings in 1680. So over the year the 12 bunk bus brings in minus expenses 613,200. And the 28 bunk bus brings in 664,300. Bringing the company to 1,277,500 in income before paying drivers, gas, maintenance, staff, and other costs. I'm not convinced its viable to run it. But if there is a market then it might do well. I'll post in Amtrak's Future about a night train on the route.

http://www.sleepbus.co


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## Blackwolf

Very intriguing. I _almost_ have an inclination to try the service out, but there is a major hold-up for me. The complete lack of any quality information is troubling, and that website is a joke by 2016 standards. I want to know about things such as:


sleeper compartment dimensions
luggage/storage options
company insurance coverage/liability limits
cancellation/delayed trip rights for customers
driver training info
vehicle information/equipment age
additional fees, if any
And, of course, better photographs. For someone with multiple options like we have in California, more information and publicity is a good thing. As it stands right now, without more information, I'm not exactly leaping at the chance to try this out. Also, they need a better stop in San Francisco. 24th and Mission is not the best neighborhood.


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## railiner

I agree with Blackwolf. I tried a 'dummy booking' to see if I could glean some more info that way, but not successful. They asked for acceptance of their policy, but when I clicked on it, it came up blank. Interesting how they will let you board a couple of hours early, and remain on board up to five hours after arrival....looks like they used old Pullman Company practice for their model...a combination of Pullman, and Pickwick Nite Coach, that is..... 

I will follow this with interest. The photo's show what appear to be 12 bunk (plus a master bedroom) "entertainer" coach that are usually employed hauling bands on tour around the country. Those are nicely equipped with showers and galleys, but no mention was made of those services other than coffee....

The 28 bunk 'section' bus mentioned in the first post is not shown....but I have seen similar years ago hauling a ski club between Wichita and the Colorado ski slopes on weekends....those could sleep up to forty....


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## tp49

One of the things that causes concern for me is that the contact phone number comes back to a Minnesota area code. So either it's someone's cell phone number (which a cursory googling of the number leads me to believe it is) and could be fly by nightish, or if it's a landline then there is no local structure in place. Sounds interesting though, guess we'll see how it works out. I also agree that they could use a better SF stop than 24th and Mission.


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## Seaboard92

I also found the lack of information very eye opening. And quite frankly that really bothers me. It seems like an interesting operation. I'm not sure they can make it work from a business stand point. I'm also wondering what customer market they are trying to get. With the times after and before business I would want to think business travelers. But with the sleep till noon I almost want to say tourists or college students because of that. And I'm not sure they can get the business travelers who tend to not be bus people. And college students I'm not sure on


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## cirdan

I tried to make a dummy booking and there seems to be a bug that it forgets the travel date I selected and asks again.

It's going to need some work still if this is to look professional.


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## calwatch

They launched Monday night. http://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/sleepbus-gets-you-from-sf-to-la-for-50.html

http://gizmodo.com/would-you-ride-a-bus-from-sf-to-la-if-you-could-sleep-t-1771921091

It seems interesting and I might try it at some point. The LA location is geared towards techies, at the Santa Monica pier, although it has terrible transit access until May 20, when the Expo Line will bring it much closer to the Westside. The 4th and King location in San Francisco is near SoMA and has better access than the Mission.


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## fairviewroad

I was willing to write-off some of the website quirks mentioned upthread because at that point in time, the company hadn't actually started operating yet.

Twice today, however, I've gone on the website to try to price out an itinerary. Both times the website gave me an error message.

I was using Firefox, but I tried again using Internet Explorer and it worked that time. At any rate, I think they're going to have to get their IT in shape real soon,

because the techies that may use this route aren't going to be impressed with a sloppy web interface.


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## jebr

Yeah. The first time I tried to use it in Firefox it glitched out for me as well. Internet Explorer seems to work, but when I tried to book a date six weeks in advance (6/3/2016) I click "Pay with Card" and get this:

"This Sleepbus trip is coming soon, we will be emailing you when it is available! Please contact us @ [email protected] if you have additional questions, thanks!"

I may try it again for a trip in the future (a Spirit ticket MSP - LAX + this LAX - SFO may still be cheaper than a ticket MSP - SFO, plus the concept seems cool) but I'm not sold they'll last long enough for me to try it if there's these glitches (or, in the case of Internet Explorer, forcing me to get all the way to the purchase screen before telling me tickets aren't yet bookable.)


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## crescent-zephyr

Based on the website and facebook page, it appears to be a Volvo Truck Conversion, not an entertainer coach. Truck Conversions usually ride very rough (like a truck.)

I'm not sure if the general public will grasp this... you are basically renting a bunk. On top of that, you could have a lower, middle, or top bunk. It appears to have only curtains, which means nothing is keeping you from falling out of the bunk. This is very standard on entertainer coaches, but entertainer coaches do not have the general public riding.

I do think luxury busses can be very popular. RedCoach in Florida and Vonlane in Texas seem to be doing it right with Prevost Busses with roomy 2x1 Reserved seating.


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## Trailrider1951

Or a great idea that could be used to augment Amtrak service?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/sleepbus-runs-overnight-between-sf-and-la-for-dollar48/ar-BBsOGmV?ocid=spartanntp

This would make a great alternative to the present bus ride on the Los Angeles to Las Vegas trip. What other overnight bus segments would you like to see, if something like this was the carrier? The only Amtrak "service" that I've experienced that I absolutely HATED was an overnight bus ride from Kansas City MO (Southwest Chief) to connect with the Heartland Flyer in OKC the next morning. Next time, I'll walk. Seriously, what do you all think?

Mods, if this post is off topic, feel free to move it. Thanks!


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## jamesontheroad

Perhaps of more interest is the fact that Megabus have had a sleeper service in the UK for a couple of years now operating between London and Scotland.

It was piloted with a converted articulated coach previously used on commuter services into Glasgow. IIRC, the original operating conditions required every passenger to have a seat as well as a berth.

Currently the service is operated by a fleet of double decker Van Hools with convertible berths. These make their way on to some seated daytime services with the berths folded away.


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## E60JPC

Would there be a place to get changed on the bus or would passengers have to embark/disembark in their pajamas?


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## calwatch

It looks like vaporware as the original concept used rental trailers. Allegedly they will get more buses soon, but it seems odd why they wouldn't just run two buses (on in each direction) with maybe Tuesday and Wednesday off until they can ramp up, and just sell out that to show investors demand, than halt the service for three or more months. I think they are getting trouble getting investment as the niche may be too small (millennials living in coastal areas who don't want to fly but can afford double the price of Bolt or Mega between the two points).


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## Everydaymatters

Green Tortoise has been around for a long time. Not an overnight bus, but a similar genre.


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## jis

E60JPC said:


> Would there be a place to get changed on the bus or would passengers have to embark/disembark in their pajamas?


They'll do exactly what people do on 16 hour flights in Business Class lie flat seats. Sleep in whatever they are wearing, which usually tend to be comfy travel clothes. For that matter that is what I mostly do in Amtrak Roomettes too. No big deal.


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## calwatch

They sent out an email today saying that they will launch at the end of the year. They are apparently procuring their own buses and will not use the rented trucks. Then again, the X Train allegedly had its own equipment too. I'll believe it when I see it.


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## calwatch

Confirming more and more this is vaporware, they now claim "early" next year on their Facebook (which could be any time before June 30, 2017).

https://www.facebook.com/SleepBus/


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## bretton88

I wonder if this is the same outfit trying to pitch a privately run overnight LA-San Fran train to the LOSSAN board.


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## calwatch

$115 a trip! https://www.ridecabin.com/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rolling-hotel-startup-hitting-the-road-in-california-1498649401


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## railiner

The photo makes those 'cabins' look extremely claustrophobic to me...looks like they are stacked two high, on the 'upper level', and you crawl in and out thru your aisle window? Wish there were more photo's showing the vehicle. They do mention a common lounge with tables on the lower level, as well as a restroom, pantry, and baggage area....

I wonder if they are using Van Hool DD's or some truck chassis mounted custom body?

Edit: It is a Van Hool TD 925....I found this article with some more info...also check out the comments...

http://travelskills.com/2017/06/28/sleep-pods-la-san-francisco/


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## jebr

The thing that's really unclear about what I'm seeing now is how early I could board or how late I can stay on upon arrival. The single price is cheaper than a hotel room + transportation, but two people would be equal (assuming $49 airfare/person + $100ish hotel room...after taxes that's probably $220-$230 and the bus is $230, and you have to be flexible to get a $49 airfare reliably.) However, if I can't really settle in until 11 PM or close to it and I'm being booted off right around 7 AM, I'd rather fly in the night before and settle into the hotel room I'll be in for the next few days (or sleep in my own bed and pull an early morning flight.)

If they have flexibility to allow people to board (or at least drop off their bags and freshen up) by 3-4 PM (check-in time for a hotel) and stay on as late as 11 AM (check-out time for a hotel) I could see it being a "hotel alternative" for that night. But if I'm having to lug around my bags all evening or go to my meeting without a shower after sleeping all night, I don't see it getting a ton of traction.


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## railiner

From the looks of it, I don't think you would want to spend much time sitting in that vehicle...I wonder if you could event sit straight up in those tiny cabins, and I don't know how many seats the "communal area" has...


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## Philly Amtrak Fan

In FAQ section:

"Where are the pick-up and drop-off locations?

The pick-up and drop-off locations are listed within your reservation confirmation email or by logging into your Cabin account on our website. We will notify you should the location change for any upcoming trips you have booked."

How are you supposed to plan for that? How do you know the LA destination isn't in the middle of Compton?

Assuming the departure/arrival locations are safe and convenient, sounds like a good idea in theory. In practice, that's another story.


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## fairviewroad

railiner said:


> From the looks of it, I don't think you would want to spend much time sitting in that vehicle...I wonder if you could event sit straight up in those tiny cabins, and I don't know how many seats the "communal area" has...


Doesn't look like you can sit up. I suppose that's why there's a "communal area." Would be nice if they had a pic of that. Would also be nice if they offered dimensions. For a tall person, there's a big difference between a cabin that's 6'4" and a cabin that's 6'10" in length.



Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> How are you supposed to plan for that? How do you know the LA destination isn't in the middle of Compton?


Yeah, I don't know why they need to be so obtuse about it. However, if you do a dummy booking, you can find the info. SF location is 1 Bryant St, and the LA location is Ocean Ave & Arizona Ave in Santa Monica (so not actually in LA).

Side note: This company bans all children under the age of 10. I can see their argument (actually, they don't attempt to justify this policy, it just "is.") But I'm hard-pressed to think of any other form of transportation that simply bans a certain age group entirely. Forget "unaccompanied minors", this is an outright ban.


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## railiner

If you're a taller person, beware of those Van Hool double-decker's...lower deck headroom is only 5'11", and upper deck 5'7". So to paraphrase an expression from the Brit's..."mind your head"... 

Of course, the length of the bunk is much more important, since you will spend a lot more of the journey stretched out in that location....so yeah...I wonder how long it is? The overall exterior of the coach is listed as

44' 4 and 9/32" over the bumpers....so figure the max number cabins on each side of the aisle would about 7 upper and 7 lower. That would allow about 6'4" length, minus the thickness of the "soundproofed" bulkheads between them...for a total of 28 bunks...but then you would have to eliminate at least two doubles to allow room for the two spiral staircases, so now you get 24 bunks....maybe they have a few on the lower level, besides having the communal areas.... :unsure:


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## CHamilton

What it’s like to ship yourself overnight on Cabin’s sleep pod bus
Cabin, the sleep pod-equipped charter bus, wants to be like the Ritz Carlton, but on wheels.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/22/cabin-sleep-pod-bus-review/?ncid=rss

The reviewer doesn't even mention trains as an option for travel between SF and LA.


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## railiner

Interesting trip report, thanks for posting! 

I still think those 'pods' are claustrophobic, and I worry about rapid evacuation, in the event of an accident or fire...the report mentioned only some had emergency exits, if I interpreted that comment correctly... :unsure:


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## rickycourtney

The pods really don't look any more claustrophobic than a bunk on an Amtrak roomette. In fact, it looks like there's quite a bit more room than the top bunk on a Superliner.

It's regrettable that the reviewer failed to mention Amtrak... but this service has one *huge* advantage over the Coast Starlight: the schedule.

The Coast Starlight is timed out to give passengers a fantastic view. That's great if the journey to your destination is part of the trip, but it's less than ideal if you just want to go somewhere for a one-day meeting or a quick weekend trip.

This bus departs one city at 11pm and arrives at the other at 7am. That's the perfect schedule for a one-day/weekend trip because it avoids the traffic in LA & SF, allows passengers a good amount of sleep, and doesn't "waste" a day in transit.

California could do something similar, but it's not a priority right now. There's been talk in the past of doing an overnight LA - SF San Joaquin run if the state could find a way to get passenger service over Tehachapi.


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## SarahZ

Interesting concept, but those pictures are making me short of breath. No freaking way.


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## Devil's Advocate

This sounds like it's mainly geared for younger local folks who have someone dropping them off and picking them up and just need a ride between cities. It doesn't seem to be focused on rail fan retirees coming in from far away. It also seems like a rather quirky way to travel and might be worth one trip just for the curious rarity of it all.



railiner said:


> The photo makes those 'cabins' look extremely claustrophobic to me...


&


railiner said:


> From the looks of it, I don't think you would want to spend much time sitting in that vehicle...


&


railiner said:


> I still think those 'pods' are claustrophobic, and I worry about rapid evacuation, in the event of an accident or fire...


There are people who react to Amtrak sleeper photos the same way you're reacting to this bus. Luckily some of them are adventurous enough to give it a try anyway. The one thing that this operator seems to be missing is a full size mockup for people to try in the ticket office. If they had that it would be easy to try before you buy and confirm it's workable before booking. Amtrak could probably benefit from hosting sleeper mock-ups in major stations and airports.


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## railiner

Nice idea.... but I don't believe Amtrak has any difficulty in selling out the sleeper space that they have...


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## Devil's Advocate

railiner said:


> Nice idea.... but I don't believe Amtrak has any difficulty in selling out the sleeper space that they have...


I've yet to see a single Amtrak train with every sleeper compartment sold out for the entire run. Maybe the Auto-train is like that but not the routes I ride. The assumption that Amtrak sleepers sell out does not appear to be based on selling all or even most of the available compartment miles. Instead it seems to be based on the inability to book a sunset joyride from one end of the line to the other. Most Amtrak routes I ride have some busy sections that sell out and dead sections that are wide open. I'd imagine having coach mock-ups could help a lot as well. If people saw how big the seats and pitch were they might feel a lot more comfortable about riding Amtrak in the future. A lot of the hesitation I see comes from aversion to new experiences combined with not knowing what to expect, just like your own posts in this thread about new an unusual bus services.


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## bretton88

rickycourtney said:


> The pods really don't look any more claustrophobic than a bunk on an Amtrak roomette. In fact, it looks like there's quite a bit more room than the top bunk on a Superliner.
> 
> It's regrettable that the reviewer failed to mention Amtrak... but this service has one *huge* advantage over the Coast Starlight: the schedule.
> 
> The Coast Starlight is timed out to give passengers a fantastic view. That's great if the journey to your destination is part of the trip, but it's less than ideal if you just want to go somewhere for a one-day meeting or a quick weekend trip.
> 
> This bus departs one city at 11pm and arrives at the other at 7am. That's the perfect schedule for a one-day/weekend trip because it avoids the traffic in LA & SF, allows passengers a good amount of sleep, and doesn't "waste" a day in transit.
> 
> California could do something similar, but it's not a priority right now. There's been talk in the past of doing an overnight LA - SF San Joaquin run if the state could find a way to get passenger service over Tehachapi.


LOSSAN has discussed a sleeper train in the past for the LA-SF route. Just the logistics are much harder to set up a night train (hello UP).
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Blackwolf

bretton88 said:


> LOSSAN has discussed a sleeper train in the past for the LA-SF route. Just the logistics are much harder to set up a night train (hello UP).


Indeed. When the _Spirit of California_ was cancelled in the early 80's, the traveling public lost what will likely be the last shot of having an overnight State-supported train in California. Unless two consistent slots become available over Tehachapi -and- the costs associated with running two separate trains scheduled with a 7-hour run north and south are realistic (station staff, OBS, operating crews, equipment availability) I just don't think it is going to happen.

Especially in the face of CAHSR.

And if it did materialize, it'd be coach only. The chance of having sleepers is measured at absolute zero.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan

Couldn't they run an overnight on the CS route instead of via Bakersfield?


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## railiner

Devil's Advocate said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice idea.... but I don't believe Amtrak has any difficulty in selling out the sleeper space that they have...
> 
> 
> 
> I've yet to see a single Amtrak train with every sleeper compartment sold out for the entire run. Maybe the Auto-train is like that but not the routes I ride. The assumption that Amtrak sleepers sell out does not appear to be based on selling all or even most of the available compartment miles. Instead it seems to be based on the inability to book a sunset joyride from one end of the line to the other. Most Amtrak routes I ride have some busy sections that sell out and dead sections that are wide open. I'd imagine having coach mock-ups could help a lot as well. If people saw how big the seats and pitch were they might feel a lot more comfortable about riding Amtrak in the future. A lot of the hesitation I see comes from aversion to new experiences combined with not knowing what to expect, just like your own posts in this thread about new an unusual bus services.
Click to expand...

For many years, railroads, including Amtrak, often hosted "family day's" or other open-house equipment displays at various station's across the system....

That would be the best way to show the public what train travel offers....sadly, it seems to have disappeared in recent years....

Don't get me wrong....I always applaud new ideas in transportation, and wish the Cabin operator's success in their operation....perhaps you are right...I should experience it in person, before passing judgement from a couple of photo's.

I especially like the business model of the Vonlane operation in Texas....that to me is the best bus ride product currently offered...


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## Blackwolf

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Couldn't they run an overnight on the CS route instead of via Bakersfield?


Yes, they certainly could. Except that they would likely never get the 7-hour run on the Coast Subdivision. That, and a good chunk of the line is non-CTC with hand-thrown switches and speed restrictions. UP will (and has in the past) demand a very expensive price tag for upgrades before allowing any more trains on this route. FWIW, the former California overnight train ran this route (there is a whole thread on the topic here.)

I would be very surprised (and happy) for this to come to fruition, and maybe there is a slim but real chance it will. In terms of overnight "sleeper" service between LA<->SF I think that Cabin will have the market cornered pretty solidly. Neither Amtrak or California has any interest.


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## calwatch

The Greyhound/Megabus/Bolt group does overnight buses with less comfort and regularly sell out on weekends and holidays. Some of those riders may want a better option than sleeping in a seat like they did in college. I will probably try this for 4 or 5 PM start Cal football games when I don't want or need to overnight in Berkeley. Unfortunately it leaves too early for the 7:30 PM starts that the Pac 12 has been giving us and I'm too old to be sitting in a chair for seven hours trying to sleep, so usually after hanging out with friends I'll take a late BART out to the suburbs for a cheaper hotel room, if I'm not staying with them.


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