# Tehachapi: The Report



## WhoozOn1st

To those who have been riding me to hurry up with this report: Shut up already!

Before getting started I wanna send a shout out to wayman - fellow forum folk - who dug up details about the route in time for me to print before leaving home. Very helpful not only to me, but also to the people with whom I shared. Thanks, wayman!!

SECTION 1

Arrived at LAUS about 9 a.m., Sunday, June 22, 2008. There's been some talk here about boarding procedures. Humongous line at the ticket windows, but I just walked over to the deserted QuikTrak machines, printed my tickets, and strolled on out to the platform. Guessed that Train 14 would be on Track 11 or 12 (same platform). Already a few people there, but no train yet. Walking up to the first small knot of people I asked "Tehachapi?" They responded enthusiastically in the affirmative, and we started talking about the trip. Nice guys. Passed out several Amtrak Unlimited cardlets before moving on in search of someone with a scanner.

Wasn't long before I found a scanner, but there was no immediate news, so continued sort of making the rounds. Asking how people had heard of the trip - all railfans on the platform at that point - when they had booked, how far they were going, and like that. Everybody was very pleasant, and spirits were high all around. We were gonna do Tehachapi!

After a time word did come in over the scanner that Train 14 had left the yard and was on its way. No news about what track, but we had all gambled on 11/12, and as things turned out we won the bet.

Backing to the platform was slow and tedious, but the train was finally spotted.

To my surprise, we were allowed to board almost immediately. I had a roomette, and my attendant was a spritely and pretty young lady named Lindsay. More on her later. Asked her if I could board. "Sure!" She checked for me on her list, then I boarded, parked my bags below, went to my roomette to dump the camera bag and extraneous weight from my laptop backpack, and returned to the platform to walk the train and get close-ups of the private varnish dome, Silver Solarium.

Knew it was a long way to Bakersfield, so as a smoker I was also sucking down the stogies like there was no tomorrow.

Wearing my Pacific Electric t-shirt, got several compliments on it while walking the train. SoCal is P.E. territory, and local railfans are aware. Oh yeah: I had also donned the fez, and there were compliments on that as well. The well-attired railfan! HAHAHA!!

Upon reaching Silver Solarium I was accosted by a guy who not only noticed the shirt, but turned out to be a fellow member of the Orange Empire Railway Museum. Said he's involved in working on the museum's library:

"Oh, an ACTIVE member!" (I'm not - live too far away)

"I'm not sure you'd call me active."

"Mildly engaged?"

"Thank you!"

He knew what the deal was with Silver Solarium. Originally supposed to be three PV cars, but only the one. Problem was, Amtrak dictated that the PV go all the way to Seattle and back, while the tour operator's plan was to stop at Portland, then return. When the surprise additional segments of the trip could not be sold, the planned three cars became just Silver Solarium. The operator, Trains Unlimited Tours, wasn't about to take a financial bath, and who can blame them? Not me, who found photo potential dramatically improved by the tour operator's distress.

Getting close to departure time, I walked back to my car, suckin' smoke all the way, and boarded.

Customer Service Manager Elizabeth came on the PA system with some announcements, the main one of which I'll paraphrase: If anybody on this train is going anywhere between Los Angeles and Salinas (she rattled off a list of the usual Coast Starlight stops), get off the train. This train is not going along its usual route on the coast today. Leave this train, return to the station, and you'll be put on a Pacific Surfliner.

Apparently passengers headed for points on the regular route north of Salinas were okay. Guess they would be bused from either Bakersfield or Sacramento, as these were our only stops.

CSM Elizabeth also said this was only the 2nd passenger train in 35 years to run over the Tehachapis. Not so sure about that, but didn't have the stats, and who cares anyway? I was going!!

NEXT: Departure, etc.

Coast Starlight Tehachapi Detour

Oh yeah: Happy to answer any questions as best I can, long as they don't get ahead of the report postings.


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## WhoozOn1st

Quick little addition: Quite a few people did leave the train before departure; not going our way, I guess.


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 2

Train 14 departed on time at 10:15 a.m.

I was concerned with getting lunch early. Didn't wanna risk being stuck in the dining car for the crucial part of the ride. So when solicited for a reservation, "What's the earliest you've got?" "11:30." "I'll take it!"

Talking at length with my car attendant, Lindsay, I learned that it was her first run as a non-trainee. A rookie! Naturally I razzed her mercilessly for the duration. We developed a cool rapport, and I jokingly said that if she had any questions...

She had marked up on the extra board (is that the right way to put it?), and only learned at the yard that morning that she would be making the non-coast Coast Starlight run. Lindsay hadn't been aware of the railfan significance of the run, which I tried to explain without foaming too badly. A spittle cup woulda come in handy about then.

She asked, "So you're on this train just because of the way we're going?" "Yes, and so are many others. You'll see."

Got tired of waiting around in my roomette for the conductor to come around and do the ticket thing, so started walking the train with ticket in hand.

Consist: Two P-42s, baggage car, crew dorm, 4 sleepers, what I thought was a refurbished PPC (more on this later), diner, observation/lounge, 4 coaches. I may be a bit off; more important things than counting cars, at least to me.

Looking out while doing the train walk I realized that we had made the change and were no longer in standard Coast Starlight territory. Junky scenery of the western San Fernando Valley. IIRC there was a recent forum thread about the ugliest scenery. I have a new nominee. Really bad. Trailer park hell. Just plain YUCK. At least we moved through it quickly. No pictures taken of this stretch. A wasteland.

NEXT: Out to the desert.

Coast Starlight Tehachapi Detour


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## Steve4031

Keep up the great report. I almost bit on this bad boy. If i had though of my Aadvanatages miles, we would have been together on that train. My detour on the UP to St. Louis was canceled.


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## the_traveler

I see you didn't go through the Cajon Pass. (Or am I getting ahead?) Great report so far! 

Wish I could have made it! (Gloat gloat  - cry cry  )



Steve4031 said:


> I almost bit on this bad boy. If i had though of my Aadvanatages miles, we would have been together on that train. My detour on the UP to St. Louis was canceled.


If not for the midwest flooding, *I* was supposed to be on it! :angry: (I even had my tickets! But I cancelled - and lucky I did, because the SWC arrived LAX *45 minutes **after** the CS departed*! It was 3 hours late!)


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## WhoozOn1st

the_traveler said:


> I see you didn't go through the Cajon Pass.


No Cajon Pass, which woulda taken us WAY outta the way. I'll begin talking about the route in the next section.


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## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Lindsay hadn't been aware of the railfan significance of the run, which I tried to explain without foaming too badly. A spittle cup woulda come in handy about then.
> She asked, "So you're on this train just because of the way we're going?" "Yes, and so are many others. You'll see."


I find it unlikely that railfans would be the only type of people who like to take advantage of infrequent opportunities to see things that you can't see every day.


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## WhoozOn1st

Joel N. Weber II said:


> I find it unlikely that railfans would be the only type of people who like to take advantage of infrequent opportunities to see things that you can't see every day.


A valid point, but I think that in this case railfans were the folks most likely to be aware of the Tehachapi detour and grab reservations first. Believe me, that train was positively lousy with railfans. Couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a foamer. Plenty of regular, non-frothing passengers as well, and it was easy to see that they were thoroughly mystified by the carnival atmosphere, and by clowns with cameras racing up and down the aisles (I was far from the only one).


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## WhoozOn1st

This report is being done in sections, as was the steam excursion report, because my small brain grows weary if overdriven, and I need to pause from time to time to collect my thoughts. Both of them.

SECTION 3

The changeover from standard Coast Starlight territory occurred at Burbank Junction. From there to Lancaster, this part of the route sees daily passenger traffic in the form of Metrolink commuter trains. Heading out on the Valley Subdivision, we soon passed through "Tunnel 25," which took us out of the San Fernando Valley. This tunnel is L-O-N-G. Not Moffat scale, but close to that neighborhood.

Emerging from the tunnel into the Santa Clarita Valley, and running through the Newhall area, the scenery was spectacularly mediocre. Extended suburbia, with some industry thrown in.

Lunchtime!

I was seated in the diner with a very pleasant older couple. Of course Mr. Mouthy here began the interrogation immediately. No waterboarding. It was considered, but rejected as unseemly in public. They had been on vacation visiting relatives when they learned about the detour, and decided to shoehorn the Tehachapi ride into their trip home.

Around this time we were traversing Soledad Canyon before dropping into the desert. Surburbia was giving way to vistas that can be described as severe desolation. I happen to like such scenery.

Had the burger for lunch. Satisfactory once the server brought the Tabasco. And speaking of the server, hadn't been on the train much over an hour, but my reputation had already preceded me. Server said, "I hear you ride the train a lot." "I try." Never seen her before in my life, and no way she coulda known that except by talking with other crewmembers, who I always chat up.

It's the fez. Attention grabber, and surefire conversation piece ("You're a Shriner?"). And that's the whole point; willing to look like a goofball to kickstart communication.

Still eating and talking in the diner as we dropped into Palmdale in the Mojave (mo-HA-vee) desert. Saw the Lockheed Skunk Works, a Boeing facility that was too far away to get a decent shot, and the mothball airliner fleet at Mojave airport.

Following a raspberry cheesecake dessert in the desert, bade farewell and good trip to my dining companions. Time to to gird my grid for the main event.

NEXT: Into the Tehachapis.


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## the_traveler

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> to collect my thoughts. Both of them.


That many? :lol:

I heard you had a one track mind - or was it recently double tracked? :lol: :lol:


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## GG-1

the_traveler said:


> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> to collect my thoughts. Both of them.
> 
> 
> 
> That many? :lol:
> 
> I heard you had a one track mind - or was it recently double tracked? :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Thank God, I grew up along a 4 track main, and am very good at confusing myself :lol: never sure if I am coming or going.

Aloha


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 4

As far back as I was in the train - last Amtrak coach (EDIT: for photos; roommette in 3rd car) - there was a definite feel of the locomotives laboring on the uphill grades into the Tehachapis. Couldn't hear it, couldn't really see it, but a feel. Difficult to describe.

Let me back up a bit. I've told you that the train was lousy with railfans. I woulda thought that railfans would be glued to the windows, paying rapt attention to the scenery, as I was. But no.

Many that I saw were just chewing the fat, totally oblivious to the scenery. Some even with their heads down, playing cards while listening to their scanner earphones. Seemed like they were along for the ride just so they could say they did Tehachapi. Not really interested in the scenery. Mystifying to me.

Jamming through the desert before climbing into the mountains, I heard more than one person complain along the lines of "There's not much to see out here."

Kept my mouth shut, for a change, but I really beg to differ.

For starters, I find the desert beautiful.

And even if I didn't, that's hardly the point of such a trip. I mean, beautiful scenery or not, you almost never get to view that landscape from a passenger train. THAT'S the point. A rarity to be cherished, not wasted playing cards and yammering about freights gone by.

Also found that some so-called railfans are highly insular. Not only are they not really interested in the train they're on (then why did they bother?), but they don't wanna talk to you. Try to drum up conversation, get stared at like you're from Mars, and get ignored while they go back to talking about whether the XM-35 shear bolt is inferior to the XM-33.5 shear bolt. Just plain nuts.

If they don't know you, they don't wanna talk to you. How is that helpful to spreading the railroad gospel? The websites are filled with high-minded mission statements, but when you try talkiing to the clowns it's a brick wall.

Sorry for the rant, and we'll get back to the train ride in the next section.


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## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> whether the XM-35 shear bolt is inferior to the XM-33.5 shear bolt. Just plain nuts.


If you put plain nuts on a special bolt, does the plain nut become the weak link and make the differences between the different special bolts irrelevant?


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## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Many that I saw were just chewing the fat, totally oblivious to the scenery. Some even with their heads down, playing cards while listening to their scanner earphones. Seemed like they were along for the ride just so they could say they did Tehachapi. Not really interested in the scenery. Mystifying to me.


If someone who was completely blind was listening to a scanner and not watching the scenery, that would be completely non-mystifying, right?

Some people's brains process visual information in rather limited ways. Look up what faceblindness is.


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## WhoozOn1st

Joel N. Weber II said:


> If you put plain nuts on a special bolt, does the plain nut become the weak link and make the differences between the different special bolts irrelevant?


An excellent question, and I stuck around long enough to learn that if the framistan is correctly connected to the jamistan, it allows the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly in concert with the normal motion of the back end of the ramalama, assuming it's been properly serviced.

Thanks for asking!

EDIT: I mistakenly noted that the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) would function smoothly in concert with the back end of the ramalama. In fact, a correct connection between framistan and jamistan will allow the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly with the FRONT end of the ramalama, but again assuming it's been properly serviced.

I apologize for this hideous error.


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## GG-1

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Joel N. Weber II said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you put plain nuts on a special bolt, does the plain nut become the weak link and make the differences between the different special bolts irrelevant?
> 
> 
> 
> An excellent question, and I stuck around long enough to learn that if the framistan is correctly connected to the jamistan, it allows the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly in concert with the normal motion of the back end of the ramalama, assuming it's been properly serviced.
> 
> Thanks for asking!
> 
> EDIT: I mistakenly noted that the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) would function smoothly in concert with the back end of the ramalama. In fact, a correct connection between framistan and jamistan will allow the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly with the FRONT end of the ramalama, but again assuming it's been properly serviced.
> 
> I apologize for this hideous error.
Click to expand...

Aloha

I have a question. To function, whether on the front, or back end doesn't the "ramalama", need a "Ding Dong"?


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## the_traveler

GG-1 said:


> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joel N. Weber II said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you put plain nuts on a special bolt, does the plain nut become the weak link and make the differences between the different special bolts irrelevant?
> 
> 
> 
> An excellent question, and I stuck around long enough to learn that if the framistan is correctly connected to the jamistan, it allows the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly in concert with the normal motion of the back end of the ramalama, assuming it's been properly serviced.
> 
> Thanks for asking!
> 
> EDIT: I mistakenly noted that the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) would function smoothly in concert with the back end of the ramalama. In fact, a correct connection between framistan and jamistan will allow the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly with the FRONT end of the ramalama, but again assuming it's been properly serviced.
> 
> I apologize for this hideous error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Aloha
> 
> I have a question. To function, whether on the front, or back end doesn't the "ramalama", need a "Ding Dong"?
Click to expand...

Only if it has a "thingamabob" on the left rail!


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## jackal

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> EDIT: I mistakenly noted that the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) would function smoothly in concert with the back end of the ramalama. In fact, a correct connection between framistan and jamistan will allow the whatzit (Part Number 7682-A) to function smoothly with the FRONT end of the ramalama, but again assuming it's been properly serviced.
> I apologize for this hideous error.


I was under the impression that there is no way Framistan and Jamistan would ever even talk to each other, much less establish a connection. Too many terrorists hiding in caves attempting to blow the other country up.


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## WhoozOn1st

jackal said:


> I was under the impression that there is no way Framistan and Jamistan would ever even talk to each other, much less establish a connection. Too many terrorists hiding in caves attempting to blow the other country up.


The People's Free Democratic Republic of Framistan, and the Democratic People's Republic of Free Jamistan do indeed communicate,

And BTW, when you see "free," "people's," "democratic," and "republic" in a country's name you can be fairly certain it's none of those things.

Unfortunately, communication between the two countries is pretty much limited to the taunts that accompany throwing hand grenades at each other across their shared border: "Die, Framistan pigdog!" "HAHA! You missed, Jamistan insect! Take this!!" *BOOM!* "Nyahh, Framistan fool, only killed one wife. 30 more."

Obviously ripe for democratization.


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 5

As mentioned earlier, the sensation of locomotives working hard up a grade is difficult to describe. Maybe a railfan thing, as for instance when I tell relatives or friends before our Metrolink or Surfliner stop "Let's get ready. We're decelerating." "How do you know?" "I can feel it."

While we wound our way uphill I started seriosuly scouting around for photo positions. Observation car was the obvious choice, but it was in the middle of the train - not the best angles - and a foamer zoo. Finally decided to remain in the last Amtrak coach over the hill. Surprisingly minimal competition for window shooting, and those who were there kind of cooperated with each other, keeping up running commentary and conversation. Also a scanner guy there, who was very helpful in keeping us shutterbugs apprised of evolving events.

Rumors were rampant, despite the actual facts heard via scanner. "Seven freights at the top of the hill" was the most common misinformation. Some people seemed to be convinced that we would be held up forever. Didn't happen, and where such crap came from is beyond me.

We waited in double track territory for a meet with a BNSF freight, but I think that was because we were about to enter the single track running that the freight was exiting.

No 7 freights stacked up ever materialized, and we didn't pass any 7 freights. In view of available scanner info, where do such notions originate? People were spreading this junk! Guess we were also under attack from space aliens.

NEXT: The Tehachapi Loop.


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## the_traveler

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Guess we were also under attack from *space aliens*.


*HEY* - I was no where near there! :lol:


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 6

Ah, the Tehachapi Loop. Main attraction. I kept annoying the scanner guy with questions. "How long before the Loop?" "Where's the Loop?" "When do we get to the Loop?" Not just because he had a scanner, but also because he's a resident of the area. So I figured he'd know. In a running conversation I learned that he's an HO-scale modeler, belongs to a club that has a modular layout, and that until recently he never had much interest in the real thing; meaning actual trains. A little puzzling to me, but didn't grill the guy about it.

The shout went up: "THIS IS THE LOOP!!"

Northbound the Loop is a descent. Although aerial views show a hill in the center, this is not a serious problem for either viewing enjoyment or photography. What IS a serious problem for both viewing and photography is that once around that hill in the middle, the train descends into a cut before entereing the Loop tunnel. The walls of the cut are very close to the train - tight clearance - so looking forward you can't see much of anything except the roofs of the cars ahead. Then there's the short tunnel, and back out in the open. Let me point out here that while many views of the Tehachapi Loop feature freight trains passing over or under themselves on the Loop, the Coast Starlight was nowhere near long enough for that.

Tried to turn a disadvantage into an advantage by shooting astern and catching the dome Silver Lariat entering the Loop tunnel.

Coast Starlight Tehachapi Detour

After the Loop, very interesting scenery as the train descended toward Bakersfield and the Central Valley. A highlight of that portion of the trip was the meet with Train 11 - southbound Coast Starlight.

NEXT: 14 meets 11 at Caliente.


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## printman2000

Couple of questions that maybe are dumb or I missed somewhere...

Whay was this detour done? Was it a railfan special or something? The CS does not normally have that many sleepers does it?

Also, you never went back to the PPC that you thought was there. The pics look like there are two dining cars and no PPC. Is that true?


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## daniel3197

The UP allowed this detour because a rather small bridge was being replaced at the Santa Barbara, CA Depot.

The bridge in question is located under the north end of the Depot platform and at the south edge of W Montecito Street.

This work required the complete CLOSURE of the Coast Line.

You can see this little concrete creek if you go to the "Birds Eye" view on the MSN "Live Local" Maps.

In a nutshell, this is why the Amtrak Coast Starlight was routed over Tehachapi.

--- Daniel

=================================================



printman2000 said:


> Couple of questions that maybe are dumb or I missed somewhere...
> Whay was this detour done? Was it a railfan special or something? The CS does not normally have that many sleepers does it?
> 
> Also, you never went back to the PPC that you thought was there. The pics look like there are two dining cars and no PPC. Is that true?


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## WhoozOn1st

Daniel3197 is correct about the reason for the detour.

And I haven't forgotten about the PPC issue, which will be addressed in a following section. Once out of the mountains there was more time to inspect the train, including the dreaded arcade car. Patience.


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## WhoozOn1st

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Tried to turn a disadvantage into an advantage by shooting astern and catching the dome Silver Lariat entering the Loop tunnel.


Another hideous errror. Gimme credit for correction, okay? Dome was Silver SOLARIUM, as noted above and seen in the pictures. Silver Lariat was on the steam excursion.


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## MrFSS

How do you pronounce *Tehachapi*?


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## WhoozOn1st

MrFSS said:


> How do you pronounce *Tehachapi*?


Tuh-HATCH-uh-pee, pronounced quickly.

MrFSS, you're not the first, and probably not the last, to ask that.


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## MrFSS

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you pronounce *Tehachapi*?
> 
> 
> 
> Tuh-HATCH-uh-pee, pronounced quickly.
> 
> MrFSS, you're not the first, and probably not the last, to ask that.
Click to expand...

Its definitely not Irish!


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## WhoozOn1st

MrFSS said:


> Its definitely not Irish!


Not Irish by a long shot. Native American.

I would rename it "Galligan's Grade." 

Filla-me-ooo-ree-ooo-ree-ay, working on the railway.


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## WhoozOn1st

NOT A SECTION

Just some random Tehachapi notes before firing up the grill on this 4th of July.

Rookie sleeper attendant Lindsay confessed to me at one point that she felt overwhelmed. I thought she was doing a fine job, and told her so. She reminded me that I was gone most of the time, and noted that she had some very demanding non-railfan passengers on her hands, and I can vouch for her on this. Several serious gripers, which I didn't really know until the camera battery had died and I was siting in the roomette waiting on the recharge.

Is it really necessary to make life difficult for the attendants? Maybe I'm too easy, but I don't need much. Try to make myself inconspicous anyway (try that when wearing a fez!), and as long as there's coffee and juices I'm pretty happy.

And when walking the train I wear a smile and give the right of way to oncoming passengers and crew. A matter of common courtesy, as I see it.

Amfleet cars are much more stable for trainwalking than Superliners. Lower center of gravity and all. When walking Superliners I keep one arm extended to the ceiling, like a trolley, for stability. Getting thrown from the aisle into somebody's lap by a jolt on bad track is no fun for anybody.


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## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you pronounce *Tehachapi*?
> 
> 
> 
> Tuh-HATCH-uh-pee, pronounced quickly.
> 
> MrFSS, you're not the first, and probably not the last, to ask that.
Click to expand...

Maybe now that you have broadband you can provide us with an audio recording of you pronouncing Tehachapi?


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## GG-1

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> And when walking the train I wear a smile and give the right of way to oncoming passengers and crew. A matter of common courtesy, as I see it.


 Only a Smile?! :lol:

Aloha


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## the_traveler

GG-1 said:


> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And when walking the train I wear a smile and give the right of way to oncoming passengers and crew. A matter of common courtesy, as I see it.
> 
> 
> 
> Only a Smile?! :lol:
Click to expand...

Now *there's* a scary thought!


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## WhoozOn1st

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Maybe now that you have broadband you can provide us with an audio recording of you pronouncing Tehachapi?


Joel "My name is not John" must be reading pretty closely, because I only mentioned in passing that I've advanced to broadband. That's a GOOD thing. Glad to have careful readers; they keep me relatively honest.

Hope everybody had a fine 4th of July. I used the party opportunity to regale my guests with my non-coast Coast Starlight rant. It wasn't long before they started saying ""Just shut up and cook."

I retorted, "The railroad rant is the price of your meal." Nobody left. I make a mean burger.


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## jackal

You're always welcome to invite your fellow railfans over--we'll gladly listen to your stories..and will still pay for the meat!


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 7

There will not be a Section 8. We know what that means, so after this we'll skip to Section 9.

The descent to Caliente after the Tehachapi Loop was nothing short of spectacular. You couldn't write a better script, or get better photo angles. Scanner guy informed us even before the Loop that 11 was waiting at Caliente. Big News!

It was like descending into an airport for landing. Magnificent. Shortly after meeting the last BNSF freight on the hill, 11 came into view. We were far overhead, and it was obvious we'd have to lose some serious altitude for the meet.

The final run, northbound, into Caliente is the biggest, fattest horseshoe I've ever seen. In some ways it's more impressive than the Tehachapi Loop. Serious!

A clearer sense of the way you're changing altitude via 19th century engineering. Those guys did good.

Then the battery died. RATS!!

Nevertheless, it was a beautiful approach from above, horseshoe and all, and a fine meet with Train 11. Many railfans on hand, and PV tacked to the end of 11.

Then the run into Bakersfield. Somewhat puzzled by the rail route. Wondered why we were climbing a major grade when there appeared to be an easy way around it. Does anybody know about this? Dropping into the valley it looked like a flat shot, but the train took a hill. Maybe works better southbound, giving freights a running start? I don't know.

NEXT: Trouble At Bakersfield.


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 8

Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.


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## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 9

Bakersfield, over 5 hours into the run, was a smoke stop. FINALLY! I'd prepared myself with packs of gum, but that just didn't quite get it. All smokers on the platform at Bakersfield, but we had barely gotten in a single stogie when we were told to reboard.

Short platform, meant for San Joaquins, so the Coast Starlight had to be respotted to allow coach passengers to alight. That meant us sleeper smokers were screwed, but I had an idea. Walk back to the coaches, wait for the respot, and light up again. Fellow smokers commended me on this bright thought, and we all walked back.

Problem was, the respot took forever. A gang of smokers hanging out in the stupid arcade area, lighters in hand, chomping at the bit to be let off the train. Don't know if that was funny or sad.

It was about then that we began to hear rumors of engine failure. I think it was Daniel3197 who posted that a P-42 HEP unit died around east Bakersfield. I wonder if Daniel3197 was the youngster who was referred to by other passengers as "that foamer kid." I'm around 50, but on that day I could totally identify with that foamer kid's exuberance. At heart I'm just a foamer kid too.

Turned out that we did in fact have a bad unit. But nothing to be done about until Stockton. That was okay, nothing serious for the flat Central Valley. But mountains after Sacramento, and a bad unit would not do. Problems developing.

NEXT: Run Up The Valley.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

I thank the mods for moving posts that aren't really where they should be.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 10

Smoke smoke smoke that cigarette

Puff puff puff, and if you puff yourself to death

Tell Saint Peter at the Golden Gate

That you just hate to make him wait

But you just gotta have another cigarette

Departed Bakersfield about 4:20, after standing on the platform smoking (again). Only about 110 degrees, and I found just about the only shade. Talked with a couple guys from the L.A. area, one of whom actually admitted to being an MTA bus driver. Told him "Don't say that too loud around here." HAHA!!

As we raced north, and it was getting toward dinnertime, it began to dawn on me that I had no diner reservation. Out on the platform stoking my habit I had missed the announcement that dinner reservations would be taken. Unlike Pacific Surfliner cars, Superliners have no externally mounted speakers for announcements.

So I left the camera battery still charging and walked back to the diner to try to get a dinner reservation. No dice. Main guy told me the only thing left was "last call." Replied, "That's okay, I just want the burger." "No burger." This came as something of a shock, so I grabbed a menu off a table, and the guy was right: no burger. Fish dish, steak, veggie option (lasagna), and chicken. Unhappy. I wanted a burger, and was afraid that last call would result in the diner being out of the chicken, which was my second choice. Then the guy offered another option: Food service in my roomette at any time, if I gave my attendant decent notice. Since I had begun jonesing for chicken I returned to my roomette and sought out rookie attendant Lindsay.

Now ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, I had never had food service in a sleeper before, and truth to tell the option made me pretty uncomfortable. Being served in a restaurant is one thing, but to ask somebody whooz already pretty busy to go fetch your food from the dining car? Kind of goes against my generally egalitarian grain. Don't like the feeling that somebody is waiting on me. Repulsive.

Returning to the roomette I sought out rookie attendant Lindsay and had a long conversation. I think it took her about 20 minutes to fully convince me that she didn't mind at all. I wasn't being one of the griper passengers. Just didn't feel right about it, and still don't. Lindsay took my order, the chicken, and asked when I would like to eat. Said about 6:30.

The fellow smokers I'd been yapping with at Bakersfield had a roomette on the lower level of my car, so went down to chew the fat with them. Main event was over, so more time for talking. One of them was the aforementioned bus driver, but I decided not hassle him about it. EDIT: Bore more than a passing resemblance to Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden, and his pal looked suspiciously like Art Carney's Ed Norton. Forgot to ask if he was a sewer worker.

By the time rookie attendant Lindsay arrived with the food I was back in the roomette, laptop cranked up and editing photos. She was kinda surprised. "I'm glad you're here!" "Where else would I be?" "You've been all over the train all day." Which was true.

The food was largely terrible, and that's almost all I'll say about it. When Lindsay asked how my dinner had been, "The silverware worked very well." She almost fell down laughing, and said she brings her own food along.

NEXT: Ordeal At Stockton


----------



## Steve4031

Keep it up . . . this is great. I leave on Friday so you bettter be done by then. LOL


----------



## GG-1

Steve4031 said:


> Keep it up . . . this is great. I leave on Friday so you bettter be done by then. LOL


Aloha

I will second Steve's comment, as this report is fun. I think I meet Steve in WUS on the 19th, I leave July 15 for My First Acela ride on Wed July 16.

Mahalo


----------



## WhoozOn1st

GG-1 said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it up . . . this is great. I leave on Friday so you bettter be done by then. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Aloha
> 
> I will second Steve's comment, as this report is fun. I think I meet Steve in WUS on the 19th, I leave July 15 for My First Acela ride on Wed July 16.
> 
> Mahalo
Click to expand...

If the report is fun - and I certainly hope folks will find it fun - it's because riding trains is fun. And I remember when I was "that foamer kid" who bugged the hell out of everybody.


----------



## GG-1

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> GG-1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it up . . . this is great. I leave on Friday so you bettter be done by then. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Aloha
> 
> I will second Steve's comment, as this report is fun. I think I meet Steve in WUS on the 19th, I leave July 15 for My First Acela ride on Wed July 16.
> 
> Mahalo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the report is fun - and I certainly hope folks will find it fun - it's because riding trains is fun. And I remember when I was "that foamer kid" who bugged the hell out of everybody.
Click to expand...

Hey aren't we still "that foamer kid", my daughter says I still am 

Aloha


----------



## Steve4031

I will be on the railfest, but will not join the group until Tampa. So we will meet in Tampa, but not in WUS. Look forward to seeing you.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

Steve4031 said:


> I will be on the railfest, but will not join the group until Tampa. So we will meet in Tampa, but not in WUS. Look forward to seeing you.


Oh my. Major misunderstanding, Steve. The Amtrak Unlimited 2nd Annual Gathering will be October 10-12, 2008 at Los Angeles. Opposite side of the continent.


----------



## the_traveler

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will be on the railfest, but will not join the group until Tampa. So we will meet in Tampa, but not in WUS. Look forward to seeing you.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. Major misunderstanding, Steve. The Amtrak Unlimited 2nd Annual Gathering will be October 10-12, 2008 at Los Angeles. Opposite side of the continent.
Click to expand...

I believe Steve is referring to the OTOL Railfest - being held in Florida!


----------



## WhoozOn1st

First a shout out of thanks to AlanB for taking some of his valuable time to alter my screen name as requested.

SECTION 11

After the rotten meal, Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton passed by the roomette. Unlike yours surly, they had made reservations for dinner in the diner. Usually keep the door open when in the roomette; helps me know whats going on.

So I stopped 'em. "HEY! What did you guys have for dinner?"

Ralph had eaten the fish, which he said was excellent, and Ed had ordered the steak, which he highly praised. So I was the only one I knew who had gone for the chicken. Grumble grumble.

By this time it was pretty common knowledge that we had a bad locomotive. We knew generally that we were gonna have a unit added at Stockton, but nobody seemed to be sure where it would come from. Amtrak? UP? Who knew? And why at Stockton? Couldn't we make it to Sacramento, and wasn't there adequate power available there?

Questions, questions!

Ralph, Ed, and me, as smokers, hoped Stockton, because there would be a major delay, would be turned into a smoke stop. Nope. Rolled right past the station and out into the yards. Rats!

Now me and the guys, though dying to smoke, exercised self control. Apparently not everybody did, because around this time a male voice came on the PA system to say this (paraphrasing again):

"There is no smoking allowed on the train. If you didn't get the message before, get this message. If you are found smoking aboard this train, the train will come to a stop, no matter where it is, you will be put off the train, and probably met by local police." So at least they'd have a ride, if only to the hoosegow.

We got a UP unit added to the nose at Stockton.

Rookie attendant Lindsay was starting to get worried. There would be major passenger turnover at Sacramento, and she told me she wasn't very good at making up the beds.

NEXT: Sacramento Arrival.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

SECTION 12

In deference to those who don't have all day to read this junk time after time, I'll try to make this the last installment of the Tehachapi saga.

The UP unit added at Stockton turned out to be faulty as well. In view of the fact that the P-42 problem we were informed of involved HEP, why add a freight unit that almost by definition had no HEP capability?

More weirdness set in. Approaching Sacramento, the train turned away from the city and then sat out for a long time on a bridge over the river. What the hey? Went back and found a scanner guy to see what was going on. This was when I learned that the UP locomotive was behaving badly.

There was a guy I had first met on the platform at L.A., but hadn't seen since. He was headed for Chico, and growing increasingly concerned as we fell further and further behind schedule.

To keep it short, we backed into Sacramento at about walking speed. Miles at walking speed.

Arrived at 11:30, about 2.5 hours late.

Bade farewell to rookie attendant Lindsay, who was rewarded for her kindness and fine service. Then started looking for a cab. Cabbie pulled over. ""Where are you going?" "Vagabond." "It's right across the street and down the block. Can't miss it." "Thanks!"

As things turned out I really coulda used the cab, even for a trip down the street. Wound up hauling my bags behind a bunch of people crowding the street in front of me. All headed to the Vagabond Inn, and I couldn't seem to get around them. Spread out and taking up the whole sidewalk. I know this sounds boorish, but if you're gonna walk slowly, stick to the right. The Slow Lane. Get outta my way, and don't hog the sidewalk.

Even worse is when people ahead just plain stop right in front of you. No apparent reason, except perhaps their brains suddenly ceased all function. Keep it moving, folks! If you really need to stop for a conversation, move out of the way.

These things happened while schlepping to the Vagabond Inn, where it took over an hour to get checked in. The Vagabond appeared to be the hotel of choice for railfans, and the line was very long. Looked pretty hideous at first glance, but turned out not all that bad. Passed the time rehashing the ride with fellow railfans. Once checked in I meant to do some more photo editing, but was exhausted.

Dialed to arrange a wakeup call for the morning, and tried to figure out the clock radio alarm (both worked), then just crashed.

END OF TEHACHAPI REPORT, unless there are any questions.


----------



## Rob_C

Cool report!

Any idea what happened to the PPC? What was going on in what looks like a second diner?


----------



## WhoozOn1st

Rob_C said:


> Cool report!
> Any idea what happened to the PPC? What was going on in what looks like a second diner?


Thanks for reminding me to discuss the PPC situation.

Reading here and there about the refurbished Pacific Parlour Cars, I thought the train had one. Heavily disappointed. "What the hell is this?" But learned that it was not a PPC at all, but a "diner lite" car. Still heavily disappointed, and said so out loud: "THIS CAR STINKS!!" Laughter all around, and nobody disagreed.

Walked through the beast several times, and complained on every occasion. It sucked, and there was no way I was gonna eat there. My view may be somewhat colored by the fact that this is where I ran into the highly insular railfans playing cards, ignoring the scenery, treating me as ignorant, and generally being jerks.

Sleeper attendant happened to be in the Diner Lite when I loudly proclaimed about the car stinking. Not meaning the actual smell, but the car as whole. It bit. She mistakenly thought I was talking about her (and my) car. When I went back later she was spraying the sleeper with some kind of air freshener stuff. "What are you doing?" "You said the car stinks, so I'm trying to make it smell better." "I didn't mean THIS car!" She said, "But it smells like train." "Hey, I LIKE the smell of train." She lightly slapped me upside the head and called me a name I can't repeat here.

All in good fun.

EDIT: The Diner Lite garbage car was only a pathetic stand-in for a PPC. Still a full dining car on the train. And still lame chicken.


----------



## Rob_C

Thanks for the info! Traveling the Starlate in a couple weeks and wanted to gauge my chances of getting a real PPC at least one way. Sounds like either they don't have enough PPC's for all four train sets or maybe they're having trouble with them? Were they doing the wine tasting in the Diner-lite?

Cheers,

Rob


----------



## RTOlson

Was the Diner-lite a Superliner car? I haven't heard of Diner-lite and Superliner together, unless one is referring to the Cross-Country Cafe. However, if it was the CCC, why not call it that? Is there another type of car out there? The jargon gets to me sometimes.

Nonetheless, I greatly enjoyed your report. It was interesting to read that the train was running late given the three hours of dwell time that was built into the schedule at SAC.


----------



## printman2000

RTOlson said:


> Was the Diner-lite a Superliner car? I haven't heard of Diner-lite and Superliner together, unless one is referring to the Cross-Country Cafe. However, if it was the CCC, why not call it that? Is there another type of car out there? The jargon gets to me sometimes.
> Nonetheless, I greatly enjoyed your report. It was interesting to read that the train was running late given the three hours of dwell time that was built into the schedule at SAC.


Same car. CCC is Amtrak's official name for the Superliner diner-lite. Diner-lite is the unofficial name.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

CCC, Diner Lite. Potato poTAHto. Just didn't like the thing. Far preferable as a PPC replacement woulda been the cafe car I saw the next day on the San Joaquin back south.

Oh, and I knew what a PPC looked like before the relaunch of the Coast Starlight, but hadn't seen one since they'd been shopped and "refurbished" at Beech Grove, so wasn't sure what to expect. First reaction to Diner Lite/CCC: "Where are the upper windows?" Stupid, yeah, but it was hate at first sight. I'd never seen a CCC/Diner Lite before, and was thinking it was a "refurbished" PPC and that Amtrak and Beech Grove had seriously botched the operation. Just don't like the thing, and feel sorry for anybody on a train that has one.


----------



## RTOlson

But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?

The way I read it, the same word could mean one of three things -- all relating to different parts of Amtrak's dining services. And it's not really a potato-potato conversion -- more like comparing sweet potatoes to tater tots to the act of peeling potatoes.

For clarity's sake, I would use the one word that easily and clearly identifies the specific type of car -- Cross-Country Cafe. Now, I was going to say "best identifies," but I think few would claim that CCC is the best name for the car.

Again, I really appreciate the information. Maybe I'm being a little bit nitpicky, but it's seems really easy to slip in to confusing rail jargon that takes some time to figure out.

For example, I am looking forward to my trip from CIC to SLC via DAV on CS and CZ but I'm worried about OTP and friendliness of the OBS (and bummed that I can't use the PPC). I've also heard some things about SDS in the diner, but at least it's not CCC.


----------



## dan72

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> SECTION 8
> Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.


So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!  

Sorry, couldn't resist..

Thanks for the great report (and humor)!

Dan


----------



## the_traveler

dan72 said:


> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SECTION 8
> Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!
Click to expand...

He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)


----------



## dan72

the_traveler said:


> dan72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SECTION 8
> Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)
Click to expand...

Either that or check out a Mudhens game!


----------



## the_traveler

dan72 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dan72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WhoozOn1st999 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SECTION 8
> Not paying attention? I said no Section 8. Military folk will get the joke.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I guess Klinger would be a disappointed railfan!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's probably the one I see standing by the tracks in Toledo waiting for the CL and LSL to go by! :lol: (He "came" from Toledo, right?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Either that or check out a Mudhens game!
Click to expand...

So that's the ugly chick I saw at the game who always stuck out, and never got to first base!  (Maybe if he rode the Silver Streak! :lol: )


----------



## Steve4031

Thanks for finishing the report. I enjoyed it. I wished I could be in LA in October, but we have a football game that Saturday at 11 a.m. which torpedoed any railfan plans for the west coast. I hope we beat that teams ass mercilessly since they messed up my plans. I will be there next summer though for the railfest. See you then.


----------



## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st said:


> As things turned out I really coulda used the cab, even for a trip down the street. Wound up hauling my bags behind a bunch of people crowding the street in front of me. All headed to the Vagabond Inn, and I couldn't seem to get around them. Spread out and taking up the whole sidewalk. I know this sounds boorish, but if you're gonna walk slowly, stick to the right. The Slow Lane. Get outta my way, and don't hog the sidewalk.


I semi-regularily run into similar problems when trying to efficiently get down the escalator at Porter Square, if I know the next train in the direction I'm going is one I can catch, but only by running down the escalator. (Sometime within the last year or something, the T started making announcements along the lines of ``Attention passengers, the next Red Line train to {Alewife, Ashmont, Braintree} is now {approaching, arriving}.'' Initially they did just one of arriving or approaching, but now you hear approaching and then arriving.) I find that saying ``excuse me'' reasonably loudly, about 8 or so steps before I reach the people who are in the way, usually causes them to get over to the right. Although in one recent case, they choose the left side, which I found very confusing.

(On normal width MBTA escalators, the convention seems to be tha the right half is for the people who just want to stand there and let the escalator do its thing, and the left half is for people who want to go faster than the escalator. Apparently this convention is followed per-escalator in Porter Square even when two of the three escalators on the longest stretch are both in up mode. There are also some narrow escalators where passing is impossible in the MBTA system, and I think there may even be at least one narrow escalator at South Station, in spite of all of the rennovations for the underground SL1/SL2/SL3 bus tunnel.)


----------



## WhoozOn1st

Steve4031 said:


> I wished I could be in LA in October, but we have a football game that Saturday


In my view, unless you're in the NFL and getting paid serious moolah, a football game is not a legitimate excuse for missing the Gathering. So there. Baseball playoff tickets would be another matter, but we don't know whooz going to the postseason yet. Pretty sure it won't be the Dodgers.


----------



## printman2000

WhoozOn1st said:


> Reading here and there about the refurbished Pacific Parlour Cars, I thought the train had one. Heavily disappointed. "What the hell is this?" But learned that it was not a PPC at all, but a "diner lite" car.
> EDIT: The Diner Lite garbage car was only a pathetic stand-in for a PPC. Still a full dining car on the train. And still lame chicken.


Why do you think there was a CCC car out on the west coast? As far as I know, only the TE & CONO use those cars so what was it doing out there to be able to be put on the CS?


----------



## had8ley

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> SECTION 10
> Smoke smoke smoke that cigarette
> 
> Puff puff puff, and if you puff yourself to death
> 
> Tell Saint Peter at the Golden Gate
> 
> That you just hate to make him wait
> 
> But you just gotta have another cigarette
> 
> Departed Bakersfield about 4:20, after standing on the platform smoking (again). Only about 110 degrees, and I found just about the only shade. Talked with a couple guys from the L.A. area, one of whom actually admitted to being an MTA bus driver. Told him "Don't say that too loud around here." HAHA!!
> 
> As we raced north, and it was getting toward dinnertime, it began to dawn on me that I had no diner reservation. Out on the platform stoking my habit I had missed the announcement that dinner reservations would be taken. Unlike Pacific Surfliner cars, Superliners have no externally mounted speakers for announcements.
> 
> So I left the camera battery still charging and walked back to the diner to try to get a dinner reservation. No dice. Main guy told me the only thing left was "last call." Replied, "That's okay, I just want the burger." "No burger." This came as something of a shock, so I grabbed a menu off a table, and the guy was right: no burger. Fish dish, steak, veggie option (lasagna), and chicken. Unhappy. I wanted a burger, and was afraid that last call would result in the diner being out of the chicken, which was my second choice. Then the guy offered another option: Food service in my roomette at any time, if I gave my attendant decent notice. Since I had begun jonesing for chicken I returned to my roomette and sought out rookie attendant Lindsay.
> 
> Now ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, I had never had food service in a sleeper before, and truth to tell the option made me pretty uncomfortable. Being served in a restaurant is one thing, but to ask somebody whooz already pretty busy to go fetch your food from the dining car? Kind of goes against my generally egalitarian grain. Don't like the feeling that somebody is waiting on me. Repulsive.
> 
> Returning to the roomette I sought out rookie attendant Lindsay and had a long conversation. I think it took her about 20 minutes to fully convince me that she didn't mind at all. I wasn't being one of the griper passengers. Just didn't feel right about it, and still don't. Lindsay took my order, the chicken, and asked when I would like to eat. Said about 6:30.
> 
> The fellow smokers I'd been yapping with at Bakersfield had a roomette on the lower level of my car, so went down to chew the fat with them. Main event was over, so more time for talking. One of them was the aforementioned bus driver, but I decided not hassle him about it. EDIT: Bore more than a passing resemblance to Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden, and his pal looked suspiciously like Art Carney's Ed Norton. Forgot to ask if he was a sewer worker.
> 
> By the time rookie attendant Lindsay arrived with the food I was back in the roomette, laptop cranked up and editing photos. She was kinda surprised. "I'm glad you're here!" "Where else would I be?" "You've been all over the train all day." Which was true.
> 
> The food was largely terrible, and that's almost all I'll say about it. When Lindsay asked how my dinner had been, "The silverware worked very well." She almost fell down laughing, and said she brings her own food along.
> 
> NEXT: Ordeal At Stockton


So now you know why I kept that silverware...


----------



## Guest

Joel N. Weber II said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> 
> As things turned out I really coulda used the cab, even for a trip down the street. Wound up hauling my bags behind a bunch of people crowding the street in front of me. All headed to the Vagabond Inn, and I couldn't seem to get around them. Spread out and taking up the whole sidewalk. I know this sounds boorish, but if you're gonna walk slowly, stick to the right. The Slow Lane. Get outta my way, and don't hog the sidewalk.
> 
> 
> 
> I semi-regularily run into similar problems when trying to efficiently get down the escalator at Porter Square, if I know the next train in the direction I'm going is one I can catch, but only by running down the escalator. (Sometime within the last year or something, the T started making announcements along the lines of ``Attention passengers, the next Red Line train to {Alewife, Ashmont, Braintree} is now {approaching, arriving}.'' Initially they did just one of arriving or approaching, but now you hear approaching and then arriving.) I find that saying ``excuse me'' reasonably loudly, about 8 or so steps before I reach the people who are in the way, usually causes them to get over to the right. Although in one recent case, they choose the left side, which I found very confusing.
> 
> (On normal width MBTA escalators, the convention seems to be tha the right half is for the people who just want to stand there and let the escalator do its thing, and the left half is for people who want to go faster than the escalator. Apparently this convention is followed per-escalator in Porter Square even when two of the three escalators on the longest stretch are both in up mode. There are also some narrow escalators where passing is impossible in the MBTA system, and I think there may even be at least one narrow escalator at South Station, in spite of all of the rennovations for the underground SL1/SL2/SL3 bus tunnel.)
Click to expand...

Try using the same method used on snow skis or on a bicycle to save them looking around. "Passing on your left" said loudly (and politely) before reaching said groups if they're perched to the right generally guarantees movement in the right direction.

Whooz, I can't believe you suffered in silence!

Jody


----------



## AlanB

RTOlson said:


> But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?
> The way I read it, the same word could mean one of three things -- all relating to different parts of Amtrak's dining services. And it's not really a potato-potato conversion -- more like comparing sweet potatoes to tater tots to the act of peeling potatoes.
> 
> For clarity's sake, I would use the one word that easily and clearly identifies the specific type of car -- Cross-Country Cafe. Now, I was going to say "best identifies," but I think few would claim that CCC is the best name for the car.
> 
> Again, I really appreciate the information. Maybe I'm being a little bit nitpicky, but it's seems really easy to slip in to confusing rail jargon that takes some time to figure out.
> 
> For example, I am looking forward to my trip from CIC to SLC via DAV on CS and CZ but I'm worried about OTP and friendliness of the OBS (and bummed that I can't use the PPC). I've also heard some things about SDS in the diner, but at least it's not CCC.


Let me see if I can't clarify things a bit for you RT.

First SDS is really a plan to cut food service costs, not a car. Except for the Auto Train and the Empire Builder, if you're on a long distance Amtrak train and eating in any type of food service car other than the cafe car, you are experiencing SDS. SDS is Simplified Dining Service, really a fancy term for cutting the staffing in the cars and preparing most of the food off the train and just reheating it in a convection oven.

Next Diner-Lite was Amtrak's original term for converting cars into a combination cafe/dining car. This built upon the SDS concept by further cutting staff and cutting out one car, which of course saves both fuel and wear and tear on the car. The first alterted Diner-Lite car was a Superliner I dining car. It was tested on the Capitol Limited well over a year ago, and future designs were changed because of that testing. And the prototype was sent back to also get those changes.

While that was happening the Amfleet version of the Diner-Lite started appearing also. It first saw service on the Cardinal, where it was a major improvement over the poor cafe car that was plying that route. As more Heritage diners took ill, the AMF Diner-Lite's were pressed into service on the LSL also. One big difference between the AMF II Diner-Lite cars and the Superliner version, is that the Superliner's retained their grills and ovens, whereas the AMF's never had those things and none were installed either.

Because of that in part I suspect, and in part I think to differentiate things, when the Superliner versions of Diner-Lite started coming out of Beech Grove once again after the changes, Amtrak decided to spruce up things a bit by adding some regional choices (something that used to be done in the dining cars of every Amtrak train up until about 5 or 6 years ago) and they changed the name to the CCC.

In the case of the CCC's, just like the dining cars on all trains (except the AT & EB), a few items are still cooked fresh on the grill or in the oven. On the AMF Diner-Lite cars that's not an option. But otherwise, all other meals on the CCC's and all meals on the Diner-Lite cars are in effect SDS meals. They are prepared off the train, if not even pre-plated, and reheated in a convection oven on the train. The same can also be said for all other dining cars, except the EB and the AT, most meals are just reheated.

By the way SDS also gave us the plastic cups and plates, paper table cloths, and in the process tripled the amount of garbage Amtrak now has to drop off at stations along the way. It also gave us the staggared seating times in the dining car that now typically sees only about half the car in use at any given time, since the staff can't handle more passengers, and it halved the revenue that the Superliner cars could be producing. Amtrak used to be able to serve dinner to 192 passengers in a Superliner dining car, now under the SDS plan they can only serve 96 for dinner.


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## WhoozOn1st

Guest said:


> Whooz, I can't believe you suffered in silence!
> Jody


I often suffer in silence, preferring not to raise a ruckus. Not to worry, though, because all the good stuff, as well as the bad stuff, is recorded in my small brain for telling here at Amtrak Unlimited.

AlanB once told me that another AU member leads a simple life. I replied that I lead a simple life too, and that more than a few people have called me a simpleton.


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## RTOlson

*printman2000* - I don't doubt an account that the Cross-Country Cafe was used to substitute the Pacific Parlour Car. I don't think it was a permanent replacement and it's possible in terms of logistics.

Northbound Coast Starlight originates in Los Angeles -- where Sunset Limited terminates its westbound run. The Sunset runs with Texas Eagle for part of the route, so swapping an extra CCC en route to LA is entirely possible.



AlanB said:


> RTOlson said:
> 
> 
> 
> But Diner-lite and CCC aren't exactly the same thing, are they? Isn't Diner-lite that horrible dining experience that's on Lake Shore Limited? And hasn't it also been used at times in reference to Simplified Dining Service in general?
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see if I can't clarify things a bit for you RT.
Click to expand...

Dear *AlanB* -

Thank you for your explanation. It's always nice to see a summary of Amtrak's dining services. I think it also underscores my point -- for a passenger to say they experienced a "Diner-lite" car could refer to one of three things -- Simplified Dining Service, a single-level dining car or the Cross-Country Cafe. My point all along is that CCC is not exactly synonymous with Diner-lite and that it would much more straightforward to refer to the specific car as the Cross-Country Cafe.

Put another way -

- I totally grant that all Cross-Country Cafe cars are "Diner-lite."

- However, not all "Diner-lite" cars are Cross-Country Cafes.

And, if needed, examples of why referring to CCC simply as "Diner-Lite" can be confusing:

- TrainWeb's Simplified Dining Service page. As part of the introduction, it notes how people have been referring to SDS as Diner-lite. It also mentions how the editor has revised articles for clarity's sake.



> One moniker that has become inappropriately attached to the SDS project is the “Diner Lite” concept. While diners serving SDS may be “lite”-er in some aspects, Diner Lite pertains to a very specific proposal to consolidate all food service functions (formal dining and informal lounge service) into one car. Amtrak is building Diner Lite prototypes with Amfleet II and Superliner cars, and hopes to test the concept in service in 2007.


- Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lite. This article details the Lake Shore Limited dining experience. Again, that's the single-level car service.

- Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lounge (Cross-Country Cafe). Here the NARP blogger reviews the CCC service and compares it to the Lake Shore Limited experience, but the writer refers to CCC as a "Diner-lounge" and not "Diner-lite."

So there are at least three examples of Diner-lite being used in reference to three separate things and why I was initially confused when the travelogue writer noted he was in a "Diner-lite" car. It would've avoided five or six posts to simply say "CCC."


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## AlanB

RTOlson said:


> - Narp Blog - Dining with Amtrak's Diner-lounge (Cross-Country Cafe). Here the NARP blogger reviews the CCC service and compares it to the Lake Shore Limited experience, but the writer refers to CCC as a "Diner-lounge" and not "Diner-lite."


Just to make things even more interesting, Amtrak is calling the Superliner I diners being converted into CCC's "Diner-Lounges". While so far none have been released from Beech Grove (at least as of April), Amtrak is calling the conversions of Sightseer Lounge cars both SL I & II, "Lounge-Diners".


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## RTOlson

AlanB said:


> Just to make things even more interesting, Amtrak is calling the Superliner I diners being converted into CCC's "Diner-Lounges". While so far none have been released from Beech Grove (at least as of April), Amtrak is calling the conversions of Sightseer Lounge cars both SL I & II, "Lounge-Diners".


*head explodes*

What the heck? This all makes some sort of sense once you take the time to ponder it all out, but jeez.

I appreciate the back-and-forth discussion on this topic. Part of my professional job is to make information understandable for the general public. This is one reason why I'm clamoring for the most-straightforward way to describe stuff.


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## MrFSS

RTOlson said:


> Part of my professional job is to make information understandable for the general public.


You need to go to Washington DC and straighten all those folks out.


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