# Just another reason to not travel in coach



## -Jamie- (Dec 10, 2010)

My boyfriend just got off the #14 Coast Starlight in Portland after the worst trip. He insisted on traveling coach to save money and to avoid TSA, but is now paying for it immensely. It was a great trip until a sketchy group of people boarded his coach late afternoon yesterday. Their coach was pretty much empty other than this group and my boyfriend and his friend. He told me that as soon as the conductor and car attendant were gone some of the group unrolled these mats and started doing lines of coke while the others proceeds to stare at my boyfriend and his friend watching their every move. After 5 hrs of enduring the scrutinization, my boyfriend got moved to a different coach. If that weren't bad enough, today he made the stupid mistake of leaving his $2000 camera in his backpack unattended at his seat while he went to the restroom. When he came back, his backpack was open and his camera was gone. Apparently he had his camera out yesterday taking pictures when the group got on and one of them commented on what a nice camera he had. UGH!!!!!! He notified the attendant and the conductor, but there's nothing they can do without probable cause. They made an announcement threatening to stop the train if it wasn't returned, by can't ACTUALLY stop the train. UGH!!!! I told him yesterday he should have told the conductor what he saw. If he had listened to me maybe this wouldn't have happened. I love him to death, but he really is an idiot sometimes. NEVER leave valuables unattended in coach or out in the open in the sleepers. Just common sense.

Sorry about the rant, but I really needed to vent. This is really going to screw up Christmas.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 10, 2010)

Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.

I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."

I guess as long as they weren't _smoking_ the stuff.. heh.

It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being _suspicion_ of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.


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## -Jamie- (Dec 10, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.
> 
> I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."
> 
> ...


I would have just told them what I saw so they could keep an eye on them. I would think if an employee caught them doing something illegal then that would be cause to alert the authorities and have them removed from the train. Then they wouldn't have been around to steal his camera.

I don't expect them to stop the train just on suspicion of theft. I'm kind of surprised they even made that announcement. I'm sure the staff did what ever they legally could. Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.


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## the_traveler (Dec 10, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.


While it's true "if they had been watching that group", but why would they watch one group and not another - unless someone mentioned something to a crew member?




(And you stated he did not.)

I'm certainly not condoning what happened, but it was your bf's fault (at least partially) for leaving it unattended. I doubt if you left a camera on a bench downtown and came back 30 minutes later that it would be still there. I admit I have left my netbook unattended (plugged in and running) in coach when I went to the rest room - but only after I sized up those around me. This group to me as described does not seem trustworthy!


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## -Jamie- (Dec 10, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, if they had been watching that group the theft might have been prevented. Still 100% my bf's fault for being an idiot though. Too bad there's not a pill to cure irresponsibility.
> ...


I had told him to report it to the conductor or at least the car attendant yesterday, but he never did. I would think the have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them. Once again, 100% bf's fault for not listening to me. At least he didn't have his whole backpack stollen. He still had his computer, iPod and cell phone.


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## the_traveler (Dec 10, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.


Amtrak does have a policy!



It's called "Stopping at the nearest suitable location - even a grade crossing - and handing the offenders to the waiting Police to deal with"!


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## -Jamie- (Dec 10, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
> ...


See, that's what I thought! But the bf kept saying that they can't do anything without probable cause.


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## zepherdude (Dec 10, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > -Jamie- said:
> ...


Probable cause must be the conductor see them snort coke, then its one conductor against the group. Most folks don't want involvement and the conductor was no exception. He could have been thinking of the safety of the passengers, I not saying his actions were wrong or right. I was not there, he was. If he is gonna stand and stare, that would cause problems. I can hear it now, "What you lookin at #$#$%". Coked up dudes can be real dangerous. I would think he should have radioed ahead and had some cops standing by at the next stop. I do not know what constitutes a search. These all all gray areas. I would not let the incident ruin your Christmas. The BF was at fault for leaving the bag. I can imagine how your BF felt. The camera is just stuff and you have each other (maybe) and your family and sure you have lost some stuff and you feel bad, the camera is hocked now for more coke, no doubt and aint coming back. Just have some Kodak moments and try to forget it. Life will go on, Jamie.

Its a shame but this type of story will be repeated many more times, too bad that's the way it is now and tomorrow.


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## Trogdor (Dec 10, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being _suspicion_ of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.


The conductor can radio the engineer to stop the train, and he could do so pretty much whenever the heck he darn well wants to, and the FRA has nothing to say about it.


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## jmbgeg (Dec 11, 2010)

zepherdude said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Let's reconcile the probable cause argument with reality. Amtrak can and will detrain a passenger for consumption of personal alcohol in coach and for smoking on board. Sometimes the evidence is passenger reports. Are we really suggesting that if a credible witness complained about a group of people openly doing lines of coke over a protracted period of time, the conducter will apply legal probable cause standards to ejectment from the train or reports to police? I seriously doubt it. :blink:


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## rtabern (Dec 11, 2010)

First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.

However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.

Second, wow, doing coke for 5 hours straight? REALLY?? I have never been on a train where the neither the conductor, assistant conductor, nor the coach attendant didn't walk through the train once every 5 hours??

Honestly -- how I would have handled it -- is I would have "disappeared" to the Sightseer Lounge car or the diner for an hour or so -- and then would have said something to the conductor. However, tell the conductor you want to remain anonymous... and then the conductor would go and catch them for himself. The best part is the druggies would never suspect it was your bf who told on them because he would have left the car an hour or more ago to check out the diner. Know what I mean?


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## jmbgeg (Dec 11, 2010)

rtabern said:


> First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.
> 
> However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.
> 
> ...



On point.


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## -Jamie- (Dec 11, 2010)

rtabern said:


> First off, sorry to hear about the bad experience.
> 
> However, if your boyfriend was that uncomfortable with the whole situation... why didn't he just pack up and go sit in the Sightseer Lounge car to get away from them? I often spend all of my time in the SSL anyway, but would especially move in there if someone was doing something that was irritating me in coach.
> 
> ...


They didn't get up and leave sooner because they were afraid to. And I didn't say that the drug us was going on for 5 hrs straight, it was just the uncomfortable situation and the staring. It took my bf and his friend that long to work up the courage to get up. I don't know what the excuse was, but it was at that time that the car attendant moved them to another coach car.


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## DivMiler (Dec 11, 2010)

-Jamie-,

What happened to your boyfriend's friend? Did s/he not notice the camera being taken? Or was the friend elsewhere when your boyfriend went to the restroom?


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## Stellar1 (Dec 11, 2010)

I have a small combination lock that I have on my backpack and any other carry-ons when I travel. If I'm leaving them and going to another part of the train, I always make sure the backpack is locked. I also have a cable lock that I can wrap around any bags handle and loop it around the metal rod on the overhead lock so no one can take the entire bag and just walk away with it. It may look strange to others, but I know my stuff will be there when I get back.

One time last year, while traveling coach, someone was moving my stuff around looking for their bags. I initially thought they were trying to steal something, but they were only in the wrong car and couldn't find their bag.


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## Hanno (Dec 11, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > I would think the(y) have a policy against illegal drug use on board and would do something about it, even if that something is just watching them.
> ...


This happened to us last summer on the Capital Limited. With out notice the train stopped at a crossing (don't know exactly where it was as it was late at night) for the police to pick up someone who drank too much and got into a fist fight with another person. He was removed from the tain in handcuffs.


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## Edgefan (Dec 11, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Well, like you said-- stupid leaving valuables alone especially when you are suspicious of those nearby you.
> 
> I do find it kind of funny, how would you tell a Conductor those people are doing coke? "Excuse me Sir, but can you tell them to do their drugs in private."
> 
> ...


I will say from very recent experience that trains are boarded for drug/immigration searches at VERY random and sometimes remote stations. In light of the OP's post, it may not be as bad as I initially felt.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 11, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being _suspicion_ of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
> ...


Amtrak will, and possibly the host railroad.


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## Tumbleweed (Dec 11, 2010)

I guess hindsight is 20/20...perhaps they should have moved to another car, explained the situation to the Conductor, and the Conductor could have arranged for a Law Enforcement Officer and a drug sniffing dog at the next stop....at any rate, the word must get out that drugs will not be tolerated on a train.


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## George Harris (Dec 11, 2010)

Tumbleweed said:


> I guess hindsight is 20/20...perhaps they should have moved to another car, explained the situation to the Conductor, and the Conductor could have arranged for a Law Enforcement Officer and a drug sniffing dog at the next stop....at any rate, the word must get out that drugs will not be tolerated on a train.


Do you really think that the druggies are going to get the "word" you want them to get?

As to the original set of events described: The best I can say is that you can't cure stupid. Leave would have been the first and most obvious option, even if they did not want to "get involved" and find the conductor. Even without obviously shady characters around, leaving your valuables out of sight is definitely in the stupid category. As to any kickback that the conductor might get for having the train make an unscheduled stop: First once the problem is brought to the conductor's attention, the decision concerning if and where to stop is out of your hands, so it should not be part of your decision making. He certainly would know what is reasonably to do and to expect. For this sort of thing, it becomes an issue to be dealt with between the train crew, the dispatcher, and local law enforcement. The general thought in the railroad world is that making a stop bacause of what seemed to be a good reason but turned out not to be is preferred over finding that you should have stopped but did not.


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## henryj (Dec 11, 2010)

when I road #14 last August there were some really strange people riding coach. I was back in a sleeper and I only walked through the train once. That was enough. After that I stayed back in the PPC and ate there or in the diner. I never even went up to the superliner lounge car as it was full of coach passengers. These crazy people would get off at station stops and do their sun worshipping with no shirt on and things like that. What can I say it's the left coast.


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## -Jamie- (Dec 11, 2010)

DivMiler said:


> -Jamie-,
> 
> What happened to your boyfriend's friend? Did s/he not notice the camera being taken? Or was the friend elsewhere when your boyfriend went to the restroom?


I believe he was in the SSL at the time.



Stellar1 said:


> I have a small combination lock that I have on my backpack and any other carry-ons when I travel. If I'm leaving them and going to another part of the train, I always make sure the backpack is locked. I also have a cable lock that I can wrap around any bags handle and loop it around the metal rod on the overhead lock so no one can take the entire bag and just walk away with it. It may look strange to others, but I know my stuff will be there when I get back.
> 
> One time last year, while traveling coach, someone was moving my stuff around looking for their bags. I initially thought they were trying to steal something, but they were only in the wrong car and couldn't find their bag.


That's a very good idea. We'll have to look into doing that if any of us have to ride coach again.



George Harris said:


> As to the original set of events described: The best I can say is that you can't cure stupid. Leave would have been the first and most obvious option, even if they did not want to "get involved" and find the conductor. Even without obviously shady characters around, leaving your valuables out of sight is definitely in the stupid category. As to any kickback that the conductor might get for having the train make an unscheduled stop: First once the problem is brought to the conductor's attention, the decision concerning if and where to stop is out of your hands, so it should not be part of your decision making. He certainly would know what is reasonably to do and to expect. For this sort of thing, it becomes an issue to be dealt with between the train crew, the dispatcher, and local law enforcement. The general thought in the railroad world is that making a stop bacause of what seemed to be a good reason but turned out not to be is preferred over finding that you should have stopped but did not.


My bf mentioned that when the group started doing the drugs that the guy who was staring at them said something to them. He wasn't sure what was said, but was under the impression that it was "don't move". They didn't want to give these guys any impression that they were about to narc on the group, whether they were or not, for fear of getting stabbed or something. That's why it took 5 hrs for them to leave the car. They even missed dinner because of it.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 11, 2010)

henryj said:


> when I road #14 last August there were some really strange people riding coach. I was back in a sleeper and I only walked through the train once. That was enough. After that I stayed back in the PPC and ate there or in the diner. I never even went up to the superliner lounge car as it was full of coach passengers. These crazy people would get off at station stops and do their sun worshipping with no shirt on and things like that. What can I say it's the left coast.


Based on the dates on your pics I was on that EXACT train! I don't recall seeing any of those folks, but like you I never wandered south of the Diner or even up towards the Coaches during the long stops.


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## Gord (Dec 11, 2010)

zepherdude said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


I have seen conductors (sometimes aided by the assistant conductor / traiman), hand over obnoxious drunks and troublemakers to local authorities on several trips on the northbound CONO, in recent years. They didn't seem to have any hesitation to take decisive action. Maybe it's due to their frequent encounters with over the top partyers.

Gord


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## the_traveler (Dec 12, 2010)

zepherdude said:


> I can hear it now, "What you lookin at #$#$%".


If something like that was said to a Conductor, that would seem like probable cause to get law enforcement involved to me!


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## rrdude (Dec 12, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > It is worth noting that a Conductor CAN stop the train, but only under a very limited set of circumstances as allowed by the FRA. One of them not being _suspicion_ of theft. If they had stopped there's a good chance somebody would get their butts whooped either by Amtrak or the FRA.
> ...


That was pretty much my understanding too.........


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## henryj (Dec 12, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > when I road #14 last August there were some really strange people riding coach. I was back in a sleeper and I only walked through the train once. That was enough. After that I stayed back in the PPC and ate there or in the diner. I never even went up to the superliner lounge car as it was full of coach passengers. These crazy people would get off at station stops and do their sun worshipping with no shirt on and things like that. What can I say it's the left coast.
> ...


That was on #14 Sunday and Monday, August 1st and 2nd. The ut folks are at the LA Union station out on the side patio. The kids were in Klamath and the shirtless guy got off every stop Monday. I think the pics are at Klamath and one other stop. There were also several people taking their bicycles on the train. They got off at Klamath also. I talked to one I had met in the diner, he was going to ride all the way back to LA. He said he would probably take a surfliner into LA from Santa Barbara to avoid the traffic. Probably was going to take two weeks. I asked him where he slept when he stopped. Said he tried to find a motel, but sometimes he was in the middle of 'nowhere' so he just slept off the road somewhere. The bicycles were shipped in boxes in the baggage car partially disasembled. At Klamath they were all putting them back together before they left on their trips. It was an interesting and fun train trip for me all the way from Houston to Tacoma. It's certainly an interesting assortment of people that ride that train. Every meal in the diner was a new experience. lol.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 12, 2010)

henryj said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


I do remember talking with the man who was planning to bike back to LA! If I recall he was a retired teacher or professor and does trips like this all the time. Then we had the fun lady from Australia on her way to a wedding in SEA with her friend. The airline had managed to lose her luggage and she was having to make do with what she carried on. I was the Longhair guy wearing the Red Beret. That was indeed a fun trip, especially considering I connected from the _*Southwest Chief*_ which was over 2 hours down at sunrise but blasted into LAUS just 15 minutes before the *Starlight* left, saving me the terror of a bustitutuion link


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## dlagrua (Dec 12, 2010)

In coach you will always find the greatest mix of travelers. You may find the budget conscious, the short trip passsengers (that have no need for a sleeper), some business travelers, families and like everywhere else, the lower end traveler will be there too.

When I ride in coach on the NE Corridor for those couple hour trips, its mostly business people and inter-city commuters on the train. The hooligans will always be there but are less likely to be in the sleepers. Point is on some routes Amtrak only offers coach service and business class service that is really not much different. If you want top end coach, then go for the Acela and if your wallet can stand the hit. first class Acela is the ultimate.


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## the_traveler (Dec 12, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> You may find the budget conscious ... The hooligans will always be there but are less likely to be in the sleepers.


That sounded like you were talking about me, but this hooligan is in a sleeper most of the time!


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## dlagrua (Dec 13, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > You may find the budget conscious ... The hooligans will always be there but are less likely to be in the sleepers.
> ...


Please lets not quote things out of context. What I said that among the MIX of passengers in coach there are bound to sometimes be a FEW hooligans- the people that decide to speak on their cell phone in a loud voice the entire trip, the paassenger that decides that he needs two seats when the car is full, the people who bring aboard " a jug" and the guy that puts down the tray and decided to keep rhythm with the music on his iPod. I don't believe that anyone would be bothered by those who sleep.


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## FunNut (Dec 14, 2010)

Pacsafe is a travel products company that makes metal mesh covers for suitcases and backpacks, in a number of sizes. They also make backpacks, purses, totes, and more. I use their purses, they have several excellent security features. If I traveled Amtrak in coach I would definitely invest in a Pacsafe cover. I would secure valuables like a camera in the center of the pack, lock it, then secure the Pacsafe mesh around the bag/pack. I have nothing to do with this company, I'm just a satisfied customer.


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## stonesfan (Dec 14, 2010)

I've just had a fantastic little bout of long distance rail travel in the US of which I'll document a little later.

Travelling coach is more or less the same in any country. You have to share a confined space with people who maybe don't have the same standards as yourself. I travelled coach on the lake Shore Limited from Boston the Chicago on what was a generally comfortable and enjoyable ride. A shame that a couple of individuals decided to talk loudly post 12am when the majority of the carriage were trying to get some sleep. Did take earplugs which helped a great deal mind. Ended up having a 'polite' word, as did another rather irate, tired and large chap, and to be fair, the said individuals quietened down and later apologised. Had a little chat with them in the morning about their travels, so all ended up good.


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## dlagrua (Dec 14, 2010)

stonesfan said:


> I've just had a fantastic little bout of long distance rail travel in the US of which I'll document a little later.
> 
> Travelling coach is more or less the same in any country. You have to share a confined space with people who maybe don't have the same standards as yourself. I travelled coach on the lake Shore Limited from Boston the Chicago on what was a generally comfortable and enjoyable ride. A shame that a couple of individuals decided to talk loudly post 12am when the majority of the carriage were trying to get some sleep. Did take earplugs which helped a great deal mind. Ended up having a 'polite' word, as did another rather irate, tired and large chap, and to be fair, the said individuals quietened down and later apologised. Had a little chat with them in the morning about their travels, so all ended up good.


After 11PM the conductor should tell the people making noise in the coaches to shut up or be put off the train. Creating a public nuisance is just not polite.

Last year we boarded the CL at midnight and went to our sleeper car. The SCA told us to please speak quietly as people were sleeping. I actually thanked him for reminding me that we should be considerate and speak softly while in the hall. Amtrak should have signs especially in the coaches to remind people to be quiet.


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## oldtimer (Dec 14, 2010)

Jamie

Have you suggested to your boyfriend to investigate making a claim against a homeowners insurance policy? (His or his parents, if he lives with them.) Items like this that turn up "missing" are usually covered. You may have to provide proof of purchase to substantiate the claim. Hope this works!

Al aka Oldtimer2


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## stonesfan (Dec 14, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> After 11PM the conductor should tell the people making noise in the coaches to shut up or be put off the train. Creating a public nuisance is just not polite.
> 
> Last year we boarded the CL at midnight and went to our sleeper car. The SCA told us to please speak quietly as people were sleeping. I actually thanked him for reminding me that we should be considerate and speak softly while in the hall. Amtrak should have signs especially in the coaches to remind people to be quiet.


Funny you should say that on the Zephyr someone was having a bit too much to drink in the cafe area and letting the odd 4 letter word slip in. The Conductor, who looked like the ex WWF Wrestler 'The Big Boss Man' asked him to tone it down or be ejected at the next stop, which would probably have been a totally deserted shack in Nebraksa!

Whilst at some point in our lives, we've probably all crossed the line of what most of us see as decent behaviour, its good to see in this case, the Conductor not tolerating what most other passengers, especially children don't want to hear or see, especially on what is a 'vacation train ride' for many.


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## PaulM (Dec 14, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Last year we boarded the CL at midnight and went to our sleeper car. The SCA told us to please speak quietly as people were sleeping. I actually thanked him for reminding me that we should be considerate and speak softly while in the hall. *Amtrak should have signs especially in the coaches to remind people to be quiet.*


I don't know if it was before your time, but Pullman cars used to come with a standard sign that said "Quiet is requested for the benefit of those who have retired". Noise in sleepers is probably my biggest Amtrak pet peeve.


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## dlagrua (Dec 15, 2010)

> Funny you should say that on the Zephyr someone was having a bit too much to drink in the cafe area and letting the odd 4 letter word slip in. The Conductor, who looked like the ex WWF Wrestler 'The Big Boss Man' asked him to tone it down or be ejected at the next stop, which would probably have been a totally deserted shack in Nebraksa!


Good work by this conductor for trying to restore order. A few signs posted as they had way back when might be a big help. When I was a boy growing up in new York City, the subway cars all had signs outlining the behavior that was expected from riders. I vaguely remember those signs but it was something like no littering, no smoking, no spitting, Violators libel for arrest.


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## -Jamie- (Dec 16, 2010)

oldtimer2 said:


> Jamie
> 
> Have you suggested to your boyfriend to investigate making a claim against a homeowners insurance policy? (His or his parents, if he lives with them.) Items like this that turn up "missing" are usually covered. You may have to provide proof of purchase to substantiate the claim. Hope this works!
> 
> Al aka Oldtimer2


I believe his dad did file a claim with the insurance. Not sure if they'll get anything from it or not. Only time will tell. He just heard back from the Portland PD and they denied his police report. Not sure what exactly that means since I haven't spoken with him about it yet. He said it had something to do with the fact that he was on a train at the time. I guess since technically he wasn't in Portland at the time that the Portland PD doesn't have jurisdiction.


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## Brandon V (Dec 16, 2010)

How could a lost camera screw up your christmas? everyone has their own problems. Xmas 2010 marks the 11th year of the passing of my mother.. on xmas day.. from health complications..... so.. there.



-Jamie- said:


> My boyfriend just got off the #14 Coast Starlight in Portland after the worst trip. He insisted on traveling coach to save money and to avoid TSA, but is now paying for it immensely. It was a great trip until a sketchy group of people boarded his coach late afternoon yesterday. Their coach was pretty much empty other than this group and my boyfriend and his friend. He told me that as soon as the conductor and car attendant were gone some of the group unrolled these mats and started doing lines of coke while the others proceeds to stare at my boyfriend and his friend watching their every move. After 5 hrs of enduring the scrutinization, my boyfriend got moved to a different coach. If that weren't bad enough, today he made the stupid mistake of leaving his $2000 camera in his backpack unattended at his seat while he went to the restroom. When he came back, his backpack was open and his camera was gone. Apparently he had his camera out yesterday taking pictures when the group got on and one of them commented on what a nice camera he had. UGH!!!!!! He notified the attendant and the conductor, but there's nothing they can do without probable cause. They made an announcement threatening to stop the train if it wasn't returned, by can't ACTUALLY stop the train. UGH!!!! I told him yesterday he should have told the conductor what he saw. If he had listened to me maybe this wouldn't have happened. I love him to death, but he really is an idiot sometimes. NEVER leave valuables unattended in coach or out in the open in the sleepers. Just common sense.
> 
> Sorry about the rant, but I really needed to vent. This is really going to screw up Christmas.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > The conductor can radio the engineer to stop the train, and he could *do so pretty much whenever the heck he darn well wants to*, and the FRA has nothing to say about it.
> ...


Doesn't an engineer up and stopping, unexpectedly and unplanned, the train cause "traffic" kinds of problems with any trains coming the other way (single track) and and trains coming from behind?


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Dec 16, 2010)

Brandon V said:


> How could a lost camera screw up your christmas? everyone has their own problems. Xmas 2010 marks the 11th year of the passing of my mother.. on xmas day.. from health complications..... so.. there.


Just a few Christmases ago, my former daughter-in-law, her mother, and several other friends of the family were killed in a house fire caused by some Christmas decorations shorting out.

Imagine telling your grandkid on Christmas morning that his mother died a few hours ago.


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## Trogdor (Dec 16, 2010)

Guest said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Trogdor said:
> ...


It depends on the situation.

*How long is the train stopped? Is it just to reset a switch on the locomotive for a couple of minutes? Is it because of some other defect that might take 10-20 minutes to fix? Maybe much longer?

*Is the line single-tracked, or are there multiple main tracks?

*How much other traffic is on the line?

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that any conductor or engineer will just stop the train for the hell of it. They want to get where they're going as quickly as they can, too. But if they feel the need, for whatever reason, to stop the train, they can. Every rule book out there basically says just that.

If you're out there on the main and you're going to be stopped for more than a brief period, it's a good idea to let the dispatcher know that you're stopped and why. A passenger train that's just going to make a brief unscheduled stop to let someone off (say, for example, if someone left something on the train, went back to get it, and the conductor highballed the train while the passenger was still picking up the item, the conductor could just have the train stop at the next safe location, such as a commuter platform where they normally wouldn't stop) probably wouldn't even bother the dispatcher with the call.

To get back to the point made earlier, in the case of an Amtrak train making an unscheduled stop, the conductor only has to document on the train's delay report the reason the train didn't make the scheduled run time from A to B. If the stop isn't too long, and the reason is legitimate enough, Amtrak will not complain to the conductor, nor will the host railroad.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 16, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Brandon V said:
> 
> 
> > Xmas 2010 marks the 11th year of the passing of my mother.. on xmas day.. from health complications..... so.. there.
> ...


Folks, what on earth do your Charles Dickens stories have to do with traveling in coach? I'm not against sob stories, but maybe you should start a dedicated thread if you want to compare your personal xmas hardships in public.


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## OBS gues (Dec 17, 2010)

I'm calling "BS" on this one...that train is too busy for the described activities to have occurred! I work on board 14/11, and we occasionally get people making claims of theft. Usually, one of two things have happened: (a) they misplaced their own ("stolen") items, and (b) items never existed, and they think they can get new (cameras, computers, etc.) stuff from Amtrak just by complaining, absent any evidence or witnesses.


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## Ryan (Dec 17, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Brandon V said:
> ...


Try reading all of Brandon's post:



Brandon V said:


> How could a lost camera screw up your christmas? everyone has their own problems. Xmas 2010 marks the 11th year of the passing of my mother.. on xmas day.. from health complications..... so.. there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rejoicingmom (Dec 17, 2010)

DivMiler said:


> -Jamie-,
> 
> What happened to your boyfriend's friend? Did s/he not notice the camera being taken? Or was the friend elsewhere when your boyfriend went to the restroom?


I have a question about going to the diner. Can you take your valuables with you to eat, if you can't leave them at your seat?

We are going as a family of four on this train and wondering about our electronics, etc.......if we want to go eat!


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## henryj (Dec 17, 2010)

rejoicingmom said:


> DivMiler said:
> 
> 
> > -Jamie-,
> ...


I always take my GPS, camera and phone with me wherever I go on the train. I do not leave anything valuable at my seat or in my room. I don't travel with a laptop. That is like hauling a dead weight around all the time. But if you do carry one the same would apply.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 17, 2010)

OBS gues said:


> I'm calling "BS" on this one...that train is too busy for the described activities to have occurred! I work on board 14/11, and we occasionally get people making claims of theft. Usually, one of two things have happened: (a) they misplaced their own ("stolen") items, and (b) items never existed, and they think they can get new (cameras, computers, etc.) stuff from Amtrak just by complaining, absent any evidence or witnesses.


I've had stuff stolen from me multiple times. Never once was any of it witnessed by anyone willing to come forward. I guess that means I never owned any of those things and just made it all up in my head then? I'm sure Amtrak gets abused from time to time, but I doubt any camera or computer claim has managed to stick Amtrak with hundreds of millions dollars in liability losses like the *American freight railroads have...*



rejoicingmom said:


> I have a question about going to the diner. Can you take your valuables with you to eat, if you can't leave them at your seat?
> 
> We are going as a family of four on this train and wondering about our electronics, etc...if we want to go eat!


Yes, you can take your valuables to the dining car. However, each table will generally be filled with people as they combine everyone into groups of four. That doesn't leave a lot of room left over for your valuables. If the load is light you might be able to leave your things on a nearby seat but you can't really count on that. I kind of wish Amtrak had lockers for this sort of thing. It wouldn't prevent theft entirely, but it would make it a bit more obvious when people are up to no good and might deter the less determined thieves.


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## PaulM (Dec 17, 2010)

OBS gues said:


> I'm calling "BS" on this one...that train is too busy for the described activities to have occurred! I work on board 14/11, and we occasionally get people making claims of theft. Usually, one of two things have happened: (a) they misplaced their own ("stolen") items, and (b) items never existed, and they think they can get new (cameras, computers, etc.) stuff from Amtrak just by complaining, absent any evidence or witnesses.


I was wondering when someone would state the obvious. Not the theft part, but being afraid to move about on a train for 5 hours just doesn't ring true.

FWIW I just took a coach ride on the CZ and lived to ride another day.


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## chandj (Dec 17, 2010)

Recently on the Capitol Limited from DC to Pittsburgh, I accidently left my blackberry in my sleeper when I got off the train. It was stolen--I did get it back but it had the photo card missing. This is either because photo cards can be wiped and resold or because some misguided soul thinks I take great pictures. In any case, I am witness that things can be stolen on trains, especially if you don't mind after them appropriately.


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## George Harris (Dec 17, 2010)

Guest said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Trogdor said:
> ...


That is why they have signals, dispatchers, or on some lightly traveled lines manual block. Delays, maybe yes. Disasters, no. AS said earlier, it is by the rules regarded as better to make an unnecessary stop than to not have made the stop you should have made. Yes, a person causing difficulties, or having difficulties can be unloaded at a handy road crossing to the welcoming hands of the local law or an ambulance, as needed based on the situation. It is time to quit dreaming up unlikely and imaginary problems with doing what should have been done.


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## caravanman (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi,

As a person who enjoys meeting folk from other backgrounds, I enjoy coach travel. I object to the title "Just another reason not to travel in coach..." What are the other reasons then?

Anyone can have items stolen, anywhere in the world... to single out Amtrak coach travel as a particularly theft prone mode of travel seems a bit extreme to me.

About ruined christmases, I find my christmas day blighted by people banging on about religion, but that's just little old atheist me..!

Ed


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## Brandon V (Sep 24, 2011)

Ryan said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > Cho Cho Charlie said:
> ...


Thanks for pointing that out! What I was trying to say was, life's hard sometimes. S$$t happens life goes on... but to fume over a CAMERA..>A CAMERA? really.. theres other more important things to fume over than the loss of a CAMERA... much bigger fish to fry folks.


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## guest (Sep 24, 2011)

OBS gues said:


> I'm calling "BS" on this one...that train is too busy for the described activities to have occurred! I work on board 14/11, and we occasionally get people making claims of theft. Usually, one of two things have happened: (a) they misplaced their own ("stolen") items, and (b) items never existed, and they think they can get new (cameras, computers, etc.) stuff from Amtrak just by complaining, absent any evidence or witnesses.


I work in OBS as well, on the board, frequently on 14 of course; and I too have to call BS on this one. Especially where hard drugs are involved, most of the conductors I know, upon receiving a verbal report of such a situation, would have the local police at the next station board and search their belongings, and arrest the people with drugs. I have had multiple occasions of people whom either (a) I knew for a fact never had such an item on board claiming to have it "stolen" or (b) people so wildly out of it that they don't even know what car they're supposed to be in, never mind where there stuff might be. I can't tell you how often I've had people insist their stuff was stolen, only to walk them to the next car where their stuff was sitting on the luggage rack just where they left it...


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## guest (Sep 25, 2011)

guest said:


> OBS gues said:
> 
> 
> > I'm calling "BS" on this one...that train is too busy for the described activities to have occurred! I work on board 14/11, and we occasionally get people making claims of theft. Usually, one of two things have happened: (a) they misplaced their own ("stolen") items, and (b) items never existed, and they think they can get new (cameras, computers, etc.) stuff from Amtrak just by complaining, absent any evidence or witnesses.
> ...


My question is: if this took place over a period of five hours, would not the car attendant have walked through at least once????? not to mention the conductor or any other Amtrak employee?????


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2011)

guest said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > OBS gues said:
> ...


The only way this would work in my mind, at least based on my LD experience (and granted, it wasn't on the CS), is that this would have to be a strange overnight segment on a near-empty LD train in the off-season _and_ there was a reroute of the train cutting off stops and resulting in a _long_ stretch where the train was running nonstop. Even then, though, I think the conductor and/or attendants would come through at _least_ once or twice to sweep for pax for an upcoming stop (since in spite of their best efforts, you often get someone in the "wrong" car for a destination because of seating capacity limits).


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## TimePeace (Sep 25, 2011)

I missed all the earlier posts in this thread -

The OP's story does lack credibility but if it is all true it is a shame.

I find the attitude some folks about avoiding even walking thru coach to be pretty darned elitist, however. Or silly. Sure, there is riff-raff in coach, as there is in all the rest of our society. Get used to it, it has ALWAYS been that way.

That set of photos of people is a disgraceful - imagine what sorts of wacked out young people would sit outside on the ground and play a guitar. How can that be considered acceptable behavior? It would be much better if those young people were holed up in a wealthy college dorm someplace listening to techno music on their ipod, or playing computer games about aliens and killing; much more normal than playing an actual musical instrument. Sheesh. I can't believe anyone would want to contaminate their camera a computer with such stuff. Yuck.


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## Extra Board (Sep 25, 2011)

I worked On-Board-Services with Amtrak back in the 80's. As I recall, conductors loved nothing more than stopping a train in the middle of nowhere to have some fool dragged off the train by the local law enforcement. Never in a big city; the more rural the better. One walk through with a drug sniffing dog and those guys would have been toast. Having said that, your boy friend should have spoken up or at least been more vigilant of his belongs.


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## caravanman (Sep 25, 2011)

This topic is from 2010... can we say goodbye to it anytime soon?

Ed


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## TimePeace (Sep 25, 2011)

caravanman said:


> This topic is from 2010... can we say goodbye to it anytime soon?
> 
> Ed


I think the way it works is you can say goodbye to it any time you want - just don't read it any more.

Seriously and no malice intended, some of us didn't see it in 2010 and find it still pertinent now, apparently - otherwise we wouldn't be posting to it. And if moderators feel it is too old, they can delete or close it any time they please I guess.

Best to you.


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## MiRider (Sep 25, 2011)

Maine Rider said:


> I missed all the earlier posts in this thread -
> 
> The OP's story does lack credibility but if it is all true it is a shame.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention that, Maine Rider, because on my last trip I missed walking through coach, seeing all of the people, and moving through the train.

I missed this thread too but it grabbed my attention because of the title.

I LOVE riding COACH!

I did it twice on the TE in June and I'm getting ready to do it again next month, my worst experience was a broken diner DAL-CHI, running out of food in the cafe with a cold, rude LSA with a disdainful attitude to boot.

The pax were just fine and there were a lot of kids and a very diverse group of pax on board both ways.

Lots of friendly folks in the SSL, coach, and at mealtime.

I also just finished a rt CHI - NYP trip on the LSL last week.

Coach going and a roomette coming back.

Since this was my husband's first experience, he really wanted to try a roomette.

He hated sleeping in both places so I suppose I'll be traveling LD solo in the future.

I hated the roomette and the SC in general - it's depressing and cut off from what I consider the camraderie and fun of traveling on a train.

The dude in the roomette adjoining ours had his headphones so loud that I could hear his tunes in our roomette.

Being able to afford SC accomodations doesn't mean you're going to get more considerate pax, that's for sure.

SCA was nice enough but was usually napping and, besides, exactly what could he do to make it more comfy in that cell?

The roomette seats are incredibly uncomfortable and cramped and, if you're the unlucky one (me) sitting next to the can in a Viewliner, it's even worse - like 2/3 of a coach seat.

The seats barely recline, no leg rests, and no foot rests - maybe okay for one person but definitely not for two.

I felt like a prisoner but I might try it again down the road on a superliner just to see if there's any difference.

At $457 for one night minus 2 meals each worth approx. $70, I fail to see the charm or value - our hotel room cost that much per night in NYC - another night in the city would have been worth it, but not a roomette.

ymmv


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## I always rode the Southern (Sep 25, 2011)

JoanieB said:


> I also just finished a rt CHI - NYP trip on the LSL last week.
> 
> Coach going and a roomette coming back.
> 
> ...


If you hated the roomette on the viewliner, you will hate the roomette on the superliner magnified X10. It is much more uncomfortable than the viewliner. DH and I knock knees on the seats and the upper berth is usually referred to as the coffin.

We can tolerate a viewliner roomette for a night, but superliner is bedroom only.(thank heavens for AGR trips)


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2011)

I always rode the Southern said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > I also just finished a rt CHI - NYP trip on the LSL last week.
> ...


I don't like being "cut off" in the sleeping car, but I understand the security concern (given that the roomettes can't be locked from the outside) that makes it necessary even if Amtrak wanted to make it cease to be the case. Then again, I like the accommodations well enough, but I also travel alone and spend as much of my time as possible in the lounge. I _do_ wish that it was possible to have a first class lounge on more of the LD trains. That's not because I want to avoid the "rabble" in coach, but rather because the single lounge car can get overcrowded on the Superliners (and heaven help us if they can ever add more cars to those trains...I know that's years off, but it's still quite the thought). If anything, though, such a car would be more welcome on the Florida trains...the Amfleet cafe/lounge tends to be just a hair underwhelming.


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## MiRider (Sep 26, 2011)

I always rode the Southern said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > I also just finished a rt CHI - NYP trip on the LSL last week.
> ...



Ah, thanks for the heads up 

I'm hoping to get the hubby to agree to an EB CHI - SEA trip next year but it looks like we'll have to spring for a bedroom if he's going to go at all.


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## Amtrak George (Sep 26, 2011)

UPPER BERTHS (COFFINS) IN SUPERLINERS: If you have claustrophobia, beware these. I used to sleep in them all the time, but as I broadened my horizons (got a little bigger) and my tolerance for small spaces got less, I suddenly was uncomfortable. There is just not that much room between you and the ceiling, even in a bedroom.

Now if two of us travel, we either get a bedroom for one and a roomette for the other, or two roomettes across from one another.

Exception: on a short day trip, such as Memphis to New Orleans, we just get one roomette. We have been married for a long while and don't mind being close...it's just that neither of us can sleep comfortably in the Superliner upper.

There is one good thing about Superliner coach: the seats recline better and more comfortably than the roomette seating. I just can't handle overnight on coach anymore, I'm a light sleeper, too many interruptions, light problems, etc.


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