# Empire Builder service cancelled



## EB_OBS (Apr 14, 2009)

The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.

What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.

That's all I've heard for now.


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 14, 2009)

Here's the Fargo floodcam. That's the lowest I've seen the water in a while, I've been checking it every few days just for the heck of it.

Was it a washout or a soggy roadbed I wonder.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 14, 2009)

Will we be dried up by the end of May?


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## WICT106 (Apr 14, 2009)

Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.

Edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak, they are calling folks and telling them that both Amtrak and BNSf are playing this by ear, seeing if the flood recedes in time for the train to pass through the area. The suspense is driving me nuts. Why have Amtrak not updated their automated systems "Julie," and the website ?

Second edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak Customer Service, and she confirmed that, due to "Force Majure" (ie., weather beyond anyone's control, "Acts of God"). The service is annulled for the next two days. Next Scheduled service is on April 17.


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## EB_OBS (Apr 14, 2009)

ez223 said:


> The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
> What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.
> 
> That's all I've heard for now.



After reading this I went digging around for some more info.

From what I understand BNSF has told Amtrak they can't run on the sub-divisions between Minot and Fargo. I wasn't able to get a concise answer when I asked where exactly is the flooding or what is the exact reason for the trains not getting through.

I checked with reservations and it appears they are indeed calling people ticketed to go through the affected area and informing them that the train will not run through and that buses are not available. I seen a copy of a passenger manifest from early this morning and compared it to one I was able to see on the ticket agents screen and it definitely shows a significant decrease in passenger counts.


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## GoldenSpike (Apr 14, 2009)

WICT106 said:


> Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.



Hope so. I leave on April 29, VAN-MSP collecting triple points.

Return on May 9 (Train Day) collecting quad points.......


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## Ispolkom (Apr 14, 2009)

ez223 said:


> ez223 said:
> 
> 
> > The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
> ...


According to this article the problem seems to be flooding between Fargo and Minot. This article describes ice jams in the Souris River in Minot. From the pictures it doesn't look too bad to me, but I've been wrong in the past. Note that you have to have your hands in your pockets to watch an ice dam.

The Minot Amtrak station is about 3/4 of a mile south of the 8th Street bridge mentioned in the article.

I'd guess that the problem is high water and soggy roadbeds. There's a lot of snow to melt, and it takes a while for the water to drain.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 14, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Will we be dried up by the end of May?


I hope so. I am traveling SPK/CHI on 6/7 and CHI/SPK on 6/13. I am taking 27 to PDX and then the CS south in mid May. I hope that neither trip is interupted. I traveled to CHI RT in March and was able to get around the floods.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 14, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Will we be dried up by the end of May?
> ...


I am sure that some sort of service will be restored by then-- I know a guy from Fargo. He says this is worse than it has been for years but it is still a seasonal thing and will pass with April.


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## saxman (Apr 14, 2009)

Well I was taking a trip to Grand Forks tomorrow, and just got a call from Amtrak about this. Looks like I'll have to fly or not go at all. Bummer, was looking forward to it.


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## ThayerATM (Apr 15, 2009)

WICT106 said:


> Have just consulted both the website and the 800 number. Both are indicating that # 27 should be traversing the route for early morning on April 15, and are operating in regular fashion.
> Edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak, they are calling folks and telling them that both Amtrak and BNSf are playing this by ear, seeing if the flood recedes in time for the train to pass through the area. The suspense is driving me nuts. Why have Amtrak not updated their automated systems "Julie," and the website ?
> 
> Second edit: I just got off the phone with Amtrak Customer Service, and she confirmed that, due to "Force Majure" (ie., weather beyond anyone's control, "Acts of God"). The service is annulled for the next two days. Next Scheduled service is on April 17.


As of Wednesday morning (15 Apr 2009) at 7:30 AM EDT, Amtrak was still showing a service disruption, and there was no posted departure time for the Empire Builder from either SEA (8) or Chi (7).

If it's a matter of soggy rail beds, I'd expect that it might be some time before this issue is resolved. I'm neither an engineer, nor a geologist, but it strikes me that if something is soggy beneath a normal rail bed, then it'll take some time to resolve.


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## ScottC4746 (Apr 15, 2009)

ez223 said:


> The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
> What I've heard so far is that the trains will continue to run between SEA/PDX and Minot and run between CHI and MSP. No busing will take place as there are no road routes or enough buses running.
> 
> That's all I've heard for now.


That's interesting. Amtrak has no service advisories posted on their website.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 15, 2009)

ScottC4746 said:


> ez223 said:
> 
> 
> > The flood waters have now taken out the main route and the alternate route between Fargo, ND and Minot.
> ...


They may be waiting to get a full detailed report of the damage to see if they can give dates out as to how long this will take.


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## chandj (Apr 15, 2009)

Must be a day-by-day situation. We came through regular route from Seattle to Chicago on EB departing Chi on April 9.


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 15, 2009)

This report says the train is shut down because of a few inches of water over the tracks.


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## Mark (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm going to Tomah WI tomorrow so I called. The agent said EB is going to run to MSP so I'll be OK but she didn't have any details for my return trip on Sunday.


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## saxman (Apr 15, 2009)

When I try to book on the site it simply says MSP to GFK is sold out for tonight. No service advisory. I'm planning on returning on the train Saturday night, and it is still showing as running. If not I'll have to fly out again. While in ND I'll try to check out the damage, at least around Grand Forks. But Fargo is worse I know. Also heard Minot has some flooding as well.

update from reservations:

They said its only cancelled through the 15th between MOT and MSP. That's today! But no updates past today for the weekend. Hopefully it runs.


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## sechs (Apr 16, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> This report says the train is shut down because of a few inches of water over the tracks.


Why not go straight to the source?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 16, 2009)

sechs said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > This report says the train is shut down because of a few inches of water over the tracks.
> ...


Yikes.

Which line(s) does Amtrak use?


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## Ispolkom (Apr 16, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> sechs said:
> 
> 
> > PetalumaLoco said:
> ...


The Empire Builder uses the Devils Lake subdivision, which is still blocked this morning. The other two washouts were fixed last night, so the train could use the Surrey cut-off through New Rockford. Mind you, this service doesn't count a washout on the old Milwaukee Road mainline earlier this week. BNSF crews have been very busy.

If the Empire Builder runs, the key phrase is "Customers may experience delays."


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## EmpireBuilderFan1976 (Apr 16, 2009)

We were on the eastbound Empire Builder PDX-CHI going through the effected area on April 14th. Amazingly enough, when we woke up that morning (the 14th), we were only 1 hour and 40 minutes down. The LSA in the dining car informed us that we had run into water during the night. We were only 1 hour late into CUS. Sounds like we got lucky!


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## jmbgeg (Apr 16, 2009)

*Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website*

Note: I checked Greyhound's website to see if they connect from Minot, ND to St. Paul, MN. Though they serve 11 North Dakota towns, Minot is not one of them. I thought even though Amtrak is not offering a bus bridge, maybe Greyhound was an option for travelers drying to connect between the two sets of trains. Nope.

Service Alert: Empire Builder Service Disrupted between Minot, N.D. and St. Paul, Minn.

April 16, 2009

3:30 pm CT

BNSF Railway has informed Amtrak of the temporary closure of the route used by Amtrak Empire Builder in North Dakota. No detour route or other alternate service is available due to local flooding conditions and no date is available for the restoration of service.

Stations affected by this service disruption include Rugby, Devils Lake, Grand Forks and Fargo in N.D., and Detroit Lakes, Staples and St. Cloud in Minn.

Empire Builder, Train 7 & 27

The Empire Builder will operate westbound between Chicago and St. Paul and westbound between Minot, N.D., and Seattle/Portland. No service is available between St. Paul and Minot.

Empire Builder, Trains 8 & 28

The Empire Builder will operate eastbound between Portland/Seattle and Minot and eastbound between St. Paul and Chicago. No service is available between Minot and St. Paul.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 16, 2009)

High water puts local Amtrak service on hold until next week


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## Ispolkom (Apr 17, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> *Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website*
> Note: I checked Greyhound's website to see if they connect from Minot, ND to St. Paul, MN. Though they serve 11 North Dakota towns, Minot is not one of them. I thought even though Amtrak is not offering a bus bridge, maybe Greyhound was an option for travelers drying to connect between the two sets of trains. Nope.


According to Wikitravel there is a local bus between Minot and Bismarck, with which you could connect to the Greyhound traveling on I-94. I've never heard of the bus, though, and I really can't recommend riding the Dog across the prairies.

FWIW, this is a more normal time for flooding in North Dakota. The Red River valley thawing in March was weird. March is winter. November is winter. April, it's more like poor sledding.

EDIT: I've heard that there might be a #7 early next week. The pictures I've seen from the Devils Lake subdivision are pretty scary, so I'd imagine that the train would be routed on the Surry cutoff. This service advisory  would support my guess.


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## michael Moffitt (Apr 17, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > *Today's Service Alert on Amtrak Website*
> ...


I note that US 2 is now open and dry the entire length of ND as of 5 PM CDT---Since the BNSF tracks parallel much of this route hopefully this is a good sign.

MM


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## ScottC4746 (Apr 17, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > sechs said:
> ...


Here is the service alert on Amtrak's website.

"Service Alert: Empire Builder Service Disrupted between Minot, N.D. and St. Paul, Minn.

April 16, 2009

3:30 pm CT

BNSF Railway has informed Amtrak of the temporary closure of the route used by Amtrak Empire Builder in North Dakota. No detour route or other alternate service is available due to local flooding conditions and no date is available for the restoration of service.

Stations affected by this service disruption include Rugby, Devils Lake, Grand Forks and Fargo in N.D., and Detroit Lakes, Staples and St. Cloud in Minn.

Empire Builder, Train 7 & 27

The Empire Builder will operate westbound between Chicago and St. Paul and westbound between Minot, N.D., and Seattle/Portland. No service is available between St. Paul and Minot.

Empire Builder, Trains 8 & 28

The Empire Builder will operate eastbound between Portland/Seattle and Minot and eastbound between St. Paul and Chicago. No service is available between Minot and St. Paul.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates."


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2009)

Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.

Michael


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## jmbgeg (Apr 18, 2009)

Guest said:


> Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.Michael



What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?


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## guest (Apr 18, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Given the grim prognosis on the main line--the bridge is totally gone--is the southern route a possibility? Any chance they will be running trains this week--I need to decide quickly to either cancel my booking (for 4/21) and try to find a flight, or hang in there hoping they run the Empire Builder by then.Michael
> ...


The video I saw Saturday AM only had the tracks left. All of the supports, even the concrete, culvert and stone were gone for about 100 feet.

:-(


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## Sam31452 (Apr 18, 2009)

> What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?


Could it be:



> Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-BRIDGE!!




I dont' know how fast rebuilding takes on in the US but over here in Europe this could cause an interruption until about June.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 18, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?
> 
> 
> Could it be:
> ...



I don't know the track system well enough to know if there is a more circuitous route through North Dakota that would avoid the flooded tracks and washed out bridge(s). If it turns out that there is not, is Amtrak creative and nimble enough to fashion a mid-term temporary route that drops south of North Dakota, finds its way to MSP and then on to Chicago and the same in reverse; not only to serve the masses of ticketed passengers impacted daily by the service interuption, but to avoid having to refund hundreds and hundreds of paid fares? On a side issue, what happens to the crews when this happens? Do they get assigned to other routes or take unpaid vacation? I hope there is a situation room work group with Amtrak's best and brightest actively looking at solutions.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 18, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> Sam31452 said:
> 
> 
> > > What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?
> ...


I can't imagine that Amtrak wouldn't find some way of getting pax around the disruption over the next few weeks. They have some of those trains book solid-- thousands of refunds, total loss to the company could easily hit seven figures. To midigate the damage I'm sure they will establish some way to make sure that pax can still get between SEA/PDX and CHI.


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## timetoride (Apr 18, 2009)

:unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).

Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)


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## MrFSS (Apr 18, 2009)

timetoride said:


> :unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).
> Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)


*HERE* is a current news report and video. They say at least 2 weeks on the regular line. From the looks I wouldn't be surprised if it was longer.

Amtrak says till at least Sunday. Maybe they have some alternate plans being set up.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 18, 2009)

timetoride said:


> :unsure: Uh-oh.....I'm supposed to leave Chicago 5/13 on the EB headed to SEA (on my FIRST EVER Amtrak trip).
> Any guesses as to whether the service disruption may still be in effect at that time? (She asks while wringing her hands nervously.)


I wouldn't be too concerned, though my ticket from Washington DC to Minot is on May 25. West of the Twin Cities the Empire Builder runs on BNSF track. You can see their system map here, While the mainline from Minot to Grand Forks is out, that still leaves the Surrey Cutoff, which goes from Fargo directly to Minot. As far as I know, that route is more or less open, though I'm sure that it's slow and crowded right now. Failing that, I imagine that Amtrak might create a bus bridge, transferring passengers from train to buses in St. Paul, and back to train in Minot. I know they did send passengers in buses from St. Paul to Chicago last summer, when flooding east of here made the Empire Builder stop and start in St. Paul.

Looking at the BNSF map, one can imagine another route, heading south from Shelby through Great Falls, Billings, then heading east from Glendive on the old Northern Pacific mainline, parallel to I-94, to Fargo. Heck, you could even take the old Milwaukee Road Pacific Extension east from Terry through South Dakota, bringing Amtrak to that state for the first time, I think. I can't imagine that would be practicable, though. I have no idea how good the track is, and I imagine that BNSF wouldn't be interested in furnishing engineers who know the route.

Here's my view, and I'm a pretty inveterate pessimist: there are several ways that Amtrak can solve this problem, and they have most of a month to solve it before you travel. So don't worry. If you do, you're paying interest on a debt you might not owe.

I'll admit that's easy for me to say, since I have two more weeks on you.


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## Edgefan (Apr 18, 2009)

Thanks to all for the links, knowledge and opinions. Wife and I are trying not to sweat it too much. We have an Empire departure out of Chicago to SEA on the eighth of May. Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 18, 2009)

Edgefan said:


> Thanks to all for the links, knowledge and opinions. Wife and I are trying not to sweat it too much. We have an Empire departure out of Chicago to SEA on the eighth of May. Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark


Safest place to be is between the terminal stops-- that means if they run the train all the way through you'll be on it no matter how they get it through affected areas.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 18, 2009)

Edgefan said:


> Just not a fan of bustitution. :unsure: Mark


No disagreement there.


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## timetoride (Apr 18, 2009)

I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.

I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.


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## Edgefan (Apr 18, 2009)

timetoride said:


> I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.
> I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.


If this means anything, the bridge we lost (CRANDIC) last June in our flood is just now in the process of being rebuilt. That flood even tilted the 100 plus year concrete supports 45 degrees. It was a beautiful wrought iron span. I'm sure the new one will be a straightforward beamed bed with nothing for character. Mark


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## jmbgeg (Apr 18, 2009)

timetoride said:


> I appreciate all of the input and will continue to keep up with info from all of you here who are familiar with Amtrak. Will be keeping fingers crossed for encouraging news to come.
> I'm also trying to keep in mind that the flooding has caused much more serious consequences for those living in that area than for me, who's just wanting to travel through on Amtrak. I am very sorry they've had to experience all of this.



Your expression of compassion for those locals whose lives, not just trips, have been imapcted by the floods. That is wholly appropriate and I second your statement.

Those of us having near term travel plans worrying about personal impacts and discussing contingency plans is not mutually exclusive with empathy for flood victims.


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## Mark (Apr 20, 2009)

I just returned from Tomah WI on EB 8/28. It is still only running from MSP-CHI on the eastern side of the flood. The crew said Amtrak was playing it day by day.

The consist was:

P42

Coach

Coach

Coach-Cafe

One car was a Coach-Baggage, (not the middle one), but I forget which so I think there is still checked baggage available.

We ran solidly at 3 to 5 minutes early for each stop, closing with a good 40 or so minutes EARLY into Chicago!

Amtrak should consider running a MSP-CHI regular in addition to the EB.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2009)

Mark said:


> I just returned from Tomah WI on EB 8/28. It is still only running from MSP-CHI on the eastern side of the flood. The crew said Amtrak was playing it day by day.
> The consist was:
> 
> P42
> ...


We're in peak time... which means they should be running train 807 too (if the train ran its normal schedule that is)


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## allaboardamtrak (Apr 20, 2009)

Having just got off the phone with a very knowledgeable and friendly Amtrak representative, she mentioned that trains should be running CHI-SEA on Tuesday of next week. Hopefully it all works out well, and I know flooding has been a bare here in North Central Florida so my sympathies to anyone experiencing that in the midwest.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 20, 2009)

allaboardamtrak said:


> Having just got off the phone with a very knowledgeable and friendly Amtrak representative, she mentioned that trains should be running CHI-SEA on Tuesday of next week. Hopefully it all works out well, and I know flooding has been a bare here in North Central Florida so my sympathies to anyone experiencing that in the midwest.


According to BNSF the line between Minot and Grand Forks will be closed for 10-12 days. Trains are running on the Surrey cutoff, but at reduced speeds. If the Empire Builder runs, I imagine that it will be on the latter route, and probably will run pretty late. That would be vastly preferable to a bus bridge, of course.

Is this the worst year ever for the Amtrak Empire Builder? Between the Iowa flooding last summer, the Christmas meltdown, and this, it's been quite a year, even if all my trips on that train have been just fine.


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## Sam31452 (Apr 20, 2009)

As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?


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## Mark (Apr 20, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?



I don't know this for a fact but a few fellow passengers told me they heard that Amtrak was running people out of Chicago on the Southwest Chief to LA then up the coast on the Coast Starlight. Beyond that, (basically making a loop back to West Glacier), I don't know.


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## p&sr (Apr 20, 2009)

guest said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > What does "the bridge is totally gone" mean?
> ...


Shouldn't be any problem then. The TRACKS are the only part the Train ever touches! :lol:


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## ns4eva (Apr 20, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> As I'm planning to take the EB in July (and since it's a 15000 mile trip also every other LD train ecxept for the LSL and the Cardinal), I 'm also thinking on how to react if something would happen to me. (aka i'm developping a Plan B ) Does anybody have experience with standing in CHI confronted with the fact that there is no way to get to West Glacier? What is the alternate transport Amtrak can provide in such a case, how many days (hopefully not) of delay would I have to expect?


Well, my fiancee and I for one hope you don't run into any delays on your EB trip as we will be on it in July as well headed to Essex, MT. Would be a bummer for us just to have a one day delay as we only plan to be there 2 full days and 3 nights (already pushing $3500 for our trip and that's a lot to a young guy from the hills of WV for vacation).


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## EB_OBS (Apr 20, 2009)

BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.

Those trains are due through the affected area early Wednesday morning.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2009)

ez223 said:


> BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.
> Those trains are due through the affected area early Wednesday morning.


Well at least we'll get a sense of OTP for thew coming weeks. It only gets better from this point forward.


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## timetoride (Apr 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> ez223 said:
> 
> 
> > BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.
> ...



 That sounds good. Thanks!!

Any guesses about how much of a time delay will result in EB getting to SEA from CHI on this route?

My ticket to Vancouver includes taking the Thruway Bus from SEA. Is that bus only for EB passengers going to Vancouver? Wondering if that bus will wait if EB's arrival in SEA is really late or if we might be left without a ride :blink: ?????? Haven't ridden Amtrak before and I'm not sure how all of this works.


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## TrackWalker (Apr 20, 2009)

timetoride said:


> My ticket to Vancouver includes taking the Thruway Bus from SEA. Is that bus only for EB passengers going to Vancouver? Wondering if that bus will wait if EB's arrival in SEA is really late or if we might be left without a ride :blink: ?????? Haven't ridden Amtrak before and I'm not sure how all of this works.


Why not consider spending an enjoyable night in Seattle or Everett and take the morning train to Vancouver?

#510 Cascades

LV SEA 7:40AM

AR VAC 11:45AM


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## timetoride (Apr 20, 2009)

TrackWalker said:


> timetoride said:
> 
> 
> > My ticket to Vancouver includes taking the Thruway Bus from SEA. Is that bus only for EB passengers going to Vancouver? Wondering if that bus will wait if EB's arrival in SEA is really late or if we might be left without a ride :blink: ?????? Haven't ridden Amtrak before and I'm not sure how all of this works.
> ...



TrackWalker, I'd love to spend time in Seattle but I really need to be in Vancouver earlier the next day. Hopefully, another visit will permit me to enjoy the Seattle area. Thank you for the suggestion!


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## jmbgeg (Apr 20, 2009)

timetoride said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > ez223 said:
> ...


Find out if the thruway Vancouver bus that you are ticketed on to Vancouver is a "guaranteed connection". If it is, they will have a bus waiting for you.


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## henryj (Apr 20, 2009)

timetoride said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > ez223 said:
> ...


The bus is just part of Amtrak's Cascades service between Seattle and Vancouver. There are buses leaving at 10:45AM(yours), 1:15PM, 6:30PM and 9:15PM in addition to the Cascades train which leaves early in the morning at 7:40AM. If the EB is really late they would not hold the 10:45AM bus as others are using it. They would simply put you on one of the later buses. If the train is so late you miss that last bus then you might have to stay overnight. Hopefully at Amtrak's expense. Go to the Amtrak web site and select schedules then Cascades and print it out. It has all the options. I would call them to confirm this if I were you.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 20, 2009)

ez223 said:


> BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.
> Those trains are due through the affected area early Wednesday morning.


If that is the same detour that I took on trains 8 and 7 before the floods shut the EB down (and it sounds like it may be based upon the towns bypassed), there were no significant delays caused by the detour.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 20, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> ez223 said:
> 
> 
> > BNSF informed Amtrak early this morning that trains 8/28(20) and trains 7/27(21) will be able to get through on the KO sub. The alternate route bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks.
> ...


That was before at least one washout on the subdivision. For now BNSF warns of "reduced speeds through this impacted area." I'd say that it was reasonable to expect some delay, but perhaps any delay could be made up in the long journey between Minot and Seattle.


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## webfoot3 (Apr 21, 2009)

I am new to this site but not new to Amtrak. We will be on train 7 leaving Chicago on 5/5. What would be a good guess as to the state of service at that time? I followed the OTR for the detour before the latest washout and the trains were running ahead most days. How many miles is the washout area?

Ron


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## WICT106 (Apr 21, 2009)

webfoot3 said:


> I am new to this site but not new to Amtrak. We will be on train 7 leaving Chicago on 5/5. What would be a good guess as to the state of service at that time? I followed the OTR for the detour before the latest washout and the trains were running ahead most days. How many miles is the washout area?Ron


There should be some service, however, depending upon how quickly BNSF crews replace a bridge that has been washed away, as well as some track damage, you might be riding some "rare mileage." In other words, you might get the detour on the Surrey Cutoff between Fargo and central North Dakota. According to this link, Amtrak has resumed service throughout Minnesota.

WCCO, "Amtrak to resume service within Minn."


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## Guest_TCBrent_* (Apr 21, 2009)

Anyone know if she's been running on time so far? Amtrak website still says no info due to service disruption


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## EB_OBS (Apr 23, 2009)

Guest_TCBrent_* said:


> Anyone know if she's been running on time so far? Amtrak website still says no info due to service disruption



Train 7 which departed Chicago on Apr 21st, arrived into Seattle today at about 10am or 20 minutes early.

Number 7 that left yesterday departed from Minot only one hour four minutes late this morning. Time that could still easily be made up and arrive into Seattle early.

Train 8 which left Seattle on the 21st departed Minot on time last night but left Fargo this morning about an hour and half late.

Not too bad of performance time considering.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 23, 2009)

ez223 said:


> Guest_TCBrent_* said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know if she's been running on time so far? Amtrak website still says no info due to service disruption
> ...


No matter how early Train 7 is into Spokane, WA, it does not leave until 2:15. Spokane is a service stop. As for Seattle on Train 7 and PDX on splitoff Train 27, freight traffic dictaes whether the train is early, on time or late. It is normal to see the trains 30-45 minutes early, but just as often; on time.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 23, 2009)

ez223 said:


> Guest_TCBrent_* said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know if she's been running on time so far? Amtrak website still says no info due to service disruption
> ...


#8 was an hour late at St. Paul this morning, but is expected in Chicago at 6:38, 2-3/4 hours late.


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## Guest_TCBRENT_* (Apr 24, 2009)

Train 27 arrived in Portland 26 minutes early this morning.


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