# Unmasked NYPD Officers assault NYC Subway rider asking them to mask up @ 8th Street 10/19



## daybeers (Oct 19, 2021)

Video: Maskless NYPD officer shoves masked man out of Manhattan subway station


GREENWICH VILLAGE, Manhattan — A maskless NYPD officer shoved a man through the emergency exit of a Manhattan subway after an apparent confrontation over face coverings, video shows. A subway…




pix11.com







#Courtesy, Professionalism, and Respect


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 19, 2021)

daybeers said:


> Video: Maskless NYPD officer shoves masked man out of Manhattan subway station
> 
> 
> GREENWICH VILLAGE, Manhattan — A maskless NYPD officer shoved a man through the emergency exit of a Manhattan subway after an apparent confrontation over face coverings, video shows. A subway…
> ...



"Let them eat Cake!"

Not NYs Finest for Sure!


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## adamj023 (Oct 19, 2021)

The video doesn’t show both sides of what happened so there are unanswered questions. If cops were alone and not near the person who was walking by, the cops were in the right if the person just approached the cops for not wearing masks.

If he got off the train and cops were right next to him that would be a different issue. Wearing masks is really for when someone is in close proximity to another. We don’t need or want 100% enforcement where a train is empty and you go maskless and get fined or arrested. There has to be flexibility.


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## daybeers (Oct 20, 2021)

adamj023 said:


> The video doesn’t show both sides of what happened so there are unanswered questions. If cops were alone and not near the person who was walking by, the cops were in the right if the person just approached the cops for not wearing masks.
> 
> If he got off the train and cops were right next to him that would be a different issue. Wearing masks is really for when someone is in close proximity to another. We don’t need or want 100% enforcement where a train is empty and you go maskless and get fined or arrested. There has to be flexibility.


Ah, so because a customer asked the people they are paying to employ through fares and taxes to follow their own rules, they were wrong? And that makes it okay to assualt that customer by grabbing their shirt and shoving them? Hilarious. The announcements in stations and trains to wear a mask get annoying because they play so often. There's signage everywhere. It's in the MTA's twitter name.

"There has to be flexibility" really? Flexibility for who? Certainly not for MTA employees who wear their mask all shift, certainly not for the essential workers who used the subway during the "stay home to stop the spread" times. Certainly not for those immunocompromised, are they not allowed to be safe while traveling? Restaurants you can order takeout or delivery, same with groceries and lots of other items. But getting around? What's the alternative? And where has that flexibility gotten us in this pandemic?

It has been shown time and time again that the NYPD don't care about transit users, pedestrians, or bikers. If you can't see that, that's on you.


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## joelkfla (Oct 20, 2021)

adamj023 said:


> The video doesn’t show both sides of what happened so there are unanswered questions. If cops were alone and not near the person who was walking by, the cops were in the right if the person just approached the cops for not wearing masks.
> 
> If he got off the train and cops were right next to him that would be a different issue. Wearing masks is really for when someone is in close proximity to another. We don’t need or want 100% enforcement where a train is empty and you go maskless and get fined or arrested. There has to be flexibility.


I think the rule said they had to be masked when interfacing with the public. To me, that would include anytime they were out on the platform. If they want to take them off when they're in their squad car, or in some area not open to the public, that's fine.


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## John Santos (Oct 20, 2021)

I don't know New York but it's hard to believe it's different from Boston where masks are required on all trains, buses, subways, and in all MBTA stations and any enclosed public spaces and anywhere you can't maintain a safe distance indoors or out. I hope someone got their badge numbers and reported them. I hope they get severely reprimanded if not fired and are forced to wear masks.


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## Ryan (Oct 20, 2021)

adamj023 said:


> The video doesn’t show both sides of what happened so there are unanswered questions. If cops were alone and not near the person who was walking by, the cops were in the right if the person just approached the cops for not wearing masks.
> 
> If he got off the train and cops were right next to him that would be a different issue. Wearing masks is really for when someone is in close proximity to another. We don’t need or want 100% enforcement where a train is empty and you go maskless and get fined or arrested. There has to be flexibility.


Yeah, no. That's not how any of this works. The mask mandate means "wear the damn mask".


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## daybeers (Oct 20, 2021)

John Santos said:


> I hope they get severely reprimanded if not fired and are forced to wear masks.


hahahaha clearly you don't know the mafia that is the NYPD. But I agree.


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## Asher (Oct 20, 2021)

Sounds like the old Bobby Fuller song. 
I fought the law and the law won.


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## me_little_me (Oct 20, 2021)

Truly sad when one sees the police acting like outlaws instead of upholding the law.


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## cirdan (Oct 21, 2021)

daybeers said:


> Ah, so because a customer asked the people they are paying to employ through fares and taxes to follow their own rules, they were wrong? And that makes it okay to assualt that customer by grabbing their shirt and shoving them? Hilarious. The announcements in stations and trains to wear a mask get annoying because they play so often. There's signage everywhere. It's in the MTA's twitter name.



Lots of assumptions here.

Do we know that the officers grabbed the guy just because he politely asked them to put on a mask? Or had there been some longer altercation or escalation?


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## me_little_me (Oct 21, 2021)

cirdan said:


> Lots of assumptions here.
> 
> Do we know that the officers grabbed the guy just because he politely asked them to put on a mask? Or had there been some longer altercation or escalation?


You mean the officers who violated city regulations on wearing masks? Had they been wearing masks as required or had they immediately put on their masks before an supposed longer altercation or before any escalation, there likely would have been a different outcome. Too many police officers contribute to the problem instead of calmly resolving it no matter how much in the wrong they are. I've seen it over and over again, even while volunteering with the local sheriff's department. They suffer from TGS - Tough Guy Syndrome.

Per nyc.gov: "All Police Officers, Detectives, Sergeants and Lieutenants regularly assigned to perform patrol duties throughout the city are equipped with body-worn cameras." So the body cameras should have told the complete story. But has NYPD made a statement that the body cameras they are supposed to be using show a different story?


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## Barb Stout (Oct 21, 2021)

I don't think that being pushed out through an exit constitutes assault unless the push force knocked the person down, so the article title is a bit inflammatory, however, they definitely should have been wearing masks. Although I don't live in a place with subways, when the ones I have been in are not wide open spaces by any means. A lot of police are currently acting like bullies by threatening cities where they are attempting to implement vaccine mandates and since many people who are against vaccines are also against wearing masks, I wouldn't be surprised if these two are in the anti-mask/vaccine camp. But I do also agree that it can be difficult to understand someone speaking through a mask. Lots of lost consonants.


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## Deni (Oct 21, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> I don't think that being pushed out through an exit constitutes assault unless the push force knocked the person down, so the article title is a bit inflammatory, however, they definitely should have been wearing masks. Although I don't live in a place with subways, when the ones I have been in are not wide open spaces by any means. A lot of police are currently acting like bullies by threatening cities where they are attempting to implement vaccine mandates and since many people who are against vaccines are also against wearing masks, I wouldn't be surprised if these two are in the anti-mask/vaccine camp. But I do also agree that it can be difficult to understand someone speaking through a mask. Lots of lost consonants.


It doesn't have to result in a fall or injury for it to be assault. It's assault.


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## Deni (Oct 21, 2021)

adamj023 said:


> The video doesn’t show both sides of what happened so there are unanswered questions. If cops were alone and not near the person who was walking by, the cops were in the right if the person just approached the cops for not wearing masks.
> 
> If he got off the train and cops were right next to him that would be a different issue. Wearing masks is really for when someone is in close proximity to another. We don’t need or want 100% enforcement where a train is empty and you go maskless and get fined or arrested. There has to be flexibility.


No, everyone is supposed to wear masks while on trains and inside enclosed stations. AT. ALL. TIMES. That is the rule. The cops were not in the right in any part of this. Also, COVID can linger in the air in an enclosed space for quite a while depending on the ventilation. So yeah, being mask-less in an empty train car should result in a fine.


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## cirdan (Oct 21, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> You mean the officers who violated city regulations on wearing masks? Had they been wearing masks as required or had they immediately put on their masks before an supposed longer altercation or before any escalation, there likely would have been a different outcome. Too many police officers contribute to the problem instead of calmly resolving it no matter how much in the wrong they are. I've seen it over and over again, even while volunteering with the local sheriff's department. They suffer from TGS - Tough Guy Syndrome.
> 
> Per nyc.gov: "All Police Officers, Detectives, Sergeants and Lieutenants regularly assigned to perform patrol duties throughout the city are equipped with body-worn cameras." So the body cameras should have told the complete story. But has NYPD made a statement that the body cameras they are supposed to be using show a different story?



I think it may be a question of definition. I once saw a security guard take off a mask for something like 20 seconds to drink some water while being far away from anybody else and a woman went ballistic at him for not having a mask.

A lot of people have zero common sense. Combine that with a missionary zeal and a holier than thou attitude and a general feeling of all cops are evil and this is the sort of result that is possible.

As I said, we don't actually know as of present


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## Ryan (Oct 21, 2021)

Actually, those of us that have watched the video do know.

These two hooligans give this guy the bum rush off of the platform, then go back to leaning against the wall making no effort whatsoever to put a mask back on.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 21, 2021)

Deni said:


> It doesn't have to result in a fall or injury for it to be assault. It's assault.


Heck, you can just accidentally **touch** somebody, and it can be considered "assault."


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## jis (Oct 21, 2021)

Amazing how many apologists are around for the police who in this case were obviously in the wrong.


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## me_little_me (Oct 21, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Heck, you can just accidentally **touch** somebody, and it can be considered "assault."


Moreover, it would appear that there can be two offenses if the officer lacked justification for what he did, assault and battery
Assault vs battery
and neither requires that a person be injured.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 21, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> I don't think that being pushed out through an exit constitutes assault unless the push force knocked the person down, so the article title is a bit inflammatory,





MARC Rider said:


> Heck, you can just accidentally **touch** somebody, and it can be considered "assault."


Where I live pushing someone against their will would normally be considered assault but police enjoy qualified immunity which means they live by different set of rules on duty. Briefly touching someone by legitimate accident is not normally considered assault but it could still get you fired in an at-will state like mine.

*This is not legal advice and IANAL


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## neroden (Oct 21, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> I don't think that being pushed out through an exit constitutes assault unless the push force knocked the person down,


I checked NY Penal Law. NY state law definitions of crimes differ substantially from the common-law meanings of the words.

The criminal behavior of the dirty cops was, legally, "reckless endangerment in the second degree" (sec. 120.20) -- both their refusal to wear masks and their shoving -- which is a class A misdemeanor. 2 counts.

It was also, very clearly, "Official Misconduct" (sec 190.00), which is a class A misdemeanor. Again, 2 counts.

Also, I would charge them with "Criminal Nuisance in the Second Degree" (sec. 240.45) -- "by conduct either unlawful in itself or unreasonable under all the circumstances, he knowingly or recklessly creates or maintains a condition which endangers the safety or health of a considerable number of persons" -- class B misdemeanor.

Also, since two of them cooperated in the crime, it's "Conspiracy in the Fifth Degree", another class A misdemeanor.

There are probably others, I didn't go through the whole Penal Law. Anyway, class A misdemeanors are punishable by 364 days in prison and a fine of $1000. 

Because there were basically 2 criminal acts (#1 the refusal to wear masks, risking spreading Covid; and #2 the shoving and physical attack), I believe the rule is that they only get two consecutive sentences (the sentences for the crimes which are basically the same criminal act are concurrent). So about 2 years in prison and about $2000 in fines for each of them, ***if the prosecutors did their job***, which prosecutors usually don't.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 22, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Heck, you can just accidentally **touch** somebody, and it can be considered "assault."


Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm not sure what the legal definition of assault is; I was just stating my opinion as what a "normal" person might think when they hear the word assault. I think of being hit or pushed down. And then there's context. The same push force might knock certain people down, but not others or even most. Happily, this person did not get knocked down by the push force the police officer was exerting on him.


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## basketmaker (Oct 22, 2021)

They are mandates - not law!


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## Cal (Oct 23, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> They are mandates - not law!


Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the transit company is requiring all people to wear masks at indoor stations and on board trains. So they were required to, whether or not it's a law as they were on the premises. 

Definition of mandate: "an official order or commission to do something."


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 23, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> They are mandates - not law!


Mandates are backed by the legal authority granted to the office or agency creating them. This seems like Civics 101 but _you_ might be interested to learn there is no law which compels you to hand over personal effects because a DEA agent asks you to do so. It's almost like you've got the whole concept of laws and rights completely backwards.


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## Ryan (Oct 23, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> They are mandates - not law!


What clever point do you think you’re making here?


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## flitcraft (Oct 23, 2021)

I guarantee that if somebody grabbed a cop's shirt and shoved him, they'd be doing hard time for assaulting the cop. That is, if they lived by the end of the episode.


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## UserNameRequired (Oct 23, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> …This seems like Civics 101 but you might be interested to learn there is no law which compels anyone to hand over their personal effects simply because some DEA agent asks them to do so.


I see the Tucson thread locked, but someone else posted in the last few days? Anyway, something to think about before giving permission to be searched. You can exercise your rights, especially if you want to keep them:
Fourth Amendment Annotated

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


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## jis (Oct 23, 2021)

You can do all sorts of things provided you have the flexibility of not making it to your destination in a timely manner to attend to whatever it is that you were going there for. Theoretically within that US one should be able to exercise ones rights without falling afoul of this, but unfortunately often that is not the case.

And if you are crossing an international boundary all bets are completely off.


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## flitcraft (Oct 23, 2021)

jis said:


> You can do all sorts of things provided you have the flexibility of not making it to your destination in a timely manner to attend to whatever it is that you were going there for. Theoretically within that US one should be able to exercise ones rights without falling afoul of this, but unfortunately often that is not the case.
> 
> And if you are crossing an international boundary all bets are completely off.



Exactly so on both points. If the police have 'reasonable suspicion' that you are about to or have violated a law, they can detain you for a 'reasonable time'--which can be awhile, unfortunately. And 'reasonable suspicion' can be based on just about anything--it's dramatically less than the probable cause needed for an arrest. And, all that assumes that the officer you are dealing with is a by-the-book officer and not one of the 'bad apple' cops who will threaten or use violence to get you to comply. So...there are the rights you have in the law books and the rights you have on the street, which aren't necessarily the same. Even asking "Am I free to go, officer?" is often interpreted hostilely by some police officers. So, be aware that an exercise of rights comes with significant risks. 

And the Fourth Amendment's rights don't apply at all regarding international boundaries--which can extend far beyond the physical boundary itself.


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