# Coupon Code



## Larz356 (Aug 4, 2008)

So, I'm able to use coupon code V851 for online ticket reservation which gives me 20% off and is reflected in my ticket price. This code says that I have to be a member of a club and present my card to retrieve my ticket. My question is... if I pick up my ticket from a machine (metrolink machine) rather than from an agent, does this not bypass the having to present a club membership card? Once you print your ticket from the machine, I presume it doesn't state that your membership has to be verified on the train, no? Seems like this (printing your online reservation from a machine) is a way to bypass club discount membership verification, no?


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## Shotgun7 (Aug 4, 2008)

Larz356 said:


> So, I'm able to use coupon code V851 for online ticket reservation which gives me 20% off and is reflected in my ticket price. This code says that I have to be a member of a club and present my card to retrieve my ticket. My question is... if I pick up my ticket from a machine (metrolink machine) rather than from an agent, does this not bypass the having to present a club membership card? Once you print your ticket from the machine, I presume it doesn't state that your membership has to be verified on the train, no? Seems like this (printing your online reservation from a machine) is a way to bypass club discount membership verification, no?


Did you happen to get this code from Ebay? I've been wondering whether or not these actually work.


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## Larz356 (Aug 4, 2008)

Shotgun7 said:


> Larz356 said:
> 
> 
> > So, I'm able to use coupon code V851 for online ticket reservation which gives me 20% off and is reflected in my ticket price. This code says that I have to be a member of a club and present my card to retrieve my ticket. My question is... if I pick up my ticket from a machine (metrolink machine) rather than from an agent, does this not bypass the having to present a club membership card? Once you print your ticket from the machine, I presume it doesn't state that your membership has to be verified on the train, no? Seems like this (printing your online reservation from a machine) is a way to bypass club discount membership verification, no?
> ...


Nope, not from ebay... it's a publicly available code: http://www.railserve.com/amtrak_coupons.html

So... would I be able to print the ticket from a machine and avoid having the agent make sure I'm actually a member of the club offering the discount?


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## Shotgun7 (Aug 4, 2008)

Larz356 said:


> Shotgun7 said:
> 
> 
> > Larz356 said:
> ...


My guess is... if that statement was made by Amtrak, you'll be fine because they say alot of crap they don't intend on following through with (random bag checks for example). If it was made by the site you got it from, the machine may say something like "see agent" or "Huh??"


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## the_traveler (Aug 4, 2008)

Larz356 said:


> So... would I be able to print the ticket from a machine and avoid having the agent make sure I'm actually a member of the club offering the discount?


I use the AAA fare all the time. When I pick up my ticket at the window, the agent asks for my card to verify if I qualify. But if I pick it up at the Quik-Trak machine, the machine never asks for my AAA card! And I have *NEVER* been asked for my card on board!


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 4, 2008)

This is a code that is good for "red hatters" travelling on the Heartland Flyer. So wear a red hat (preferably a Husker hat) and where a purple jacket. You'll look the part and you will need to act the part as well! :lol:


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## sechs (Aug 5, 2008)

Larz356 said:


> So, I'm able to use coupon code V851 for online ticket reservation which gives me 20% off and is reflected in my ticket price. This code says that I have to be a member of a club and present my card to retrieve my ticket. My question is... if I pick up my ticket from a machine (metrolink machine) rather than from an agent, does this not bypass the having to present a club membership card? Once you print your ticket from the machine, I presume it doesn't state that your membership has to be verified on the train, no? Seems like this (printing your online reservation from a machine) is a way to bypass club discount membership verification, no?


You've used a discount to which you are not entitled. Now you are asking whether you're going to get away with it. Please take these weights and add them to your conscience; it obviously needs more.

Don't think that, just because you don't pick up your tickets from an agent, a conductor won't toss you off the train for this. Or that you won't suffer fines or jail time. Maybe the chance is remote that any of these will happen, but are you really willing to accept the consequences?


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## jackal (Aug 5, 2008)

sechs said:


> You've used a discount to which you are not entitled. Now you are asking whether you're going to get away with it. Please take these weights and add them to your conscience; it obviously needs more.
> Don't think that, just because you don't pick up your tickets from an agent, a conductor won't toss you off the train for this. Or that you won't suffer fines or jail time. Maybe the chance is remote that any of these will happen, but are you really willing to accept the consequences?


Sheesh, does every thread posted today need a response dripping with sarcasm from you? :huh:

Larz, while sechs does have a point that using a discount to which you are not entitled may not be the most ethical thing to do, what you suggest (using a QT machine) is the method that probably countless thousands of people use every day to skirt the requirements. Once you have your physical ticket, you're pretty much home free--the conductors virtually never look at the requirements and enforce any of the requirements (they probably all figure that they've already been enforced by the ticket agent...I'd almost bet that most train crew members have probably never used a QT machine and don't really even know they exist!). I always book my travel using my Student Advantage membership (it's a legitimate one that I purchased), and I have _never once_ had a conductor question it and ask to see my Student Advantage card (even though I do carry it and could produce it on request). Granted, my rail mileage isn't terribly comparable to some of the others' totals around here, but I think even among the super-travelers here, you'd hear them say the same thing (I think the_traveler did).

However, you cannot exclude the possibility that a conductor might ask for it, and the consequences of not being able to show it could be as harsh as being put off the train at the next stop. Also, Amtrak _very_ occasionally blocks bookings with certain codes from using the QT machines, effectively forcing you to pick up the ticket from a ticket agent (who is much more likely to require the membership card, if it applies). If you are unable to produce it, the agent may force you to rebook the fare at the current (and potentially much higher) fare bucket.

Again, though, the chances of either happening are so slim as to be virtually zero.


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## Walt (Aug 5, 2008)

Can you book on the internet for this code, or must you call?

While Amtrak might not check when you pick up, they might check when you make your reservations. For example, ask for your membership ID.



jackal said:


> Once you have your physical ticket, you're pretty much home free--...


Well, Amtrak could very well pass the names of everyone who uses the discount, onto the group for membership verification. Unlike bus tickets, Amtrak knows your name and address. Plus, I am sure that Amtrak would not think twice about pressing fraud charges, being the bueraucracy they are. It could be months later that the knock on your door comes.


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## jackal (Aug 5, 2008)

Walt said:


> Well, Amtrak could very well pass the names of everyone who uses the discount, onto the group for membership verification. Unlike bus tickets, Amtrak knows your name and address. Plus, I am sure that Amtrak would not think twice about pressing fraud charges, being the bueraucracy they are. It could be months later that the knock on your door comes.


They could, but I'd be willing to lay money that they never have. And it's not a 100% true statement that Amtrak always knows your name and address: I believe it is still possible to buy a ticket in cash with no ID, though you'd have to do it in person (which would preclude hiding from a person to sneak past with an invalid discount). But if it's possible to buy a ticket without them knowing your address, I highly doubt they have procedures in place that rely on knowing your address, since they wouldn't apply equally to everyone.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

_"thousands of people use every day to skirt the requirements_"

...aka known as theft of services... and something your parents probably warned you not to do.

For pete's sake, do the right thing and show some integrity. This forum has an interest in the longevity of Amtrak. Scamming it for vouchers or discounts is not in the interest of the long term survival of Amtrak. If you want a discount, join an organization, go to a convention that is working with Amtrak or serve in the military and get one, the honest way.


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## Rafi (Aug 5, 2008)

Questions of morality aside, most coupon codes from Amtrak require that you pick the ticket up from a window; Quik-Trak machines will not dispense these tickets and will spit out an error stating that you need to pick these up from a ticket agent. Student Advantage, AAA, Senior discounts, etc, are generally fine to pick up from machines, but the coupon codes are generally another matter. There are exceptions where you can get the tickets from the machine (the buy one, get one half off deals that pop up periodically in Arrive come to mind), but buyer beware—no guarantees. You can't fault Amtrak; they were bit hard by a leaked 25% off code about two years ago.

-Rafi


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

Rafi,

It's not just a question of "morality". It's a question of "legality". Unfortunately, when morality fails, legality kicks in.


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## Walt (Aug 5, 2008)

jackal said:


> And it's not a 100% true statement that Amtrak always knows your name and address: I believe it is still possible to buy a ticket in cash with no ID, though you'd have to do it in person (which would preclude hiding from a person to sneak past with an invalid discount).


Is it true that the Amtrak ticket window doesn't ask to see ID when buying a ticket with cash?


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## transit54 (Aug 5, 2008)

Rafi said:


> Questions of morality aside, most coupon codes from Amtrak require that you pick the ticket up from a window; Quik-Trak machines will not dispense these tickets and will spit out an error stating that you need to pick these up from a ticket agent. Student Advantage, AAA, Senior discounts, etc, are generally fine to pick up from machines, but the coupon codes are generally another matter. There are exceptions where you can get the tickets from the machine (the buy one, get one half off deals that pop up periodically in Arrive come to mind), but buyer beware—no guarantees. You can't fault Amtrak; they were bit hard by a leaked 25% off code about two years ago.
> -Rafi


What happens in situations where a Quik-Trak is your only option? BRP and CRT, two stations that I frequent, come to mind.


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## VentureForth (Aug 5, 2008)

I've had to show ID when picking up a ticket at a window...


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2008)

What's the difference between fraudulently using a code and shoplifting?


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## transit54 (Aug 5, 2008)

Guest said:


> What's the difference between fraudulently using a code and shoplifting?


Well, shoplifting you don't pay anything, whereas a code you're still paying 50-80% of the fare. Not that I'm defending the fraudulent use of codes, but there is a difference. Trying to catch a ride on a train without a ticket (I've run into a few people doing this aboard Amtrak during my travels) would be the equivalent of shoplifting. Fraudulent code use would more be like taping the wrong barcode to an item so it scans at a lower price, or something like that.


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## Rafi (Aug 5, 2008)

rnizlek said:


> Rafi said:
> 
> 
> > Questions of morality aside, most coupon codes from Amtrak require that you pick the ticket up from a window; Quik-Trak machines will not dispense these tickets and will spit out an error stating that you need to pick these up from a ticket agent. Student Advantage, AAA, Senior discounts, etc, are generally fine to pick up from machines, but the coupon codes are generally another matter. There are exceptions where you can get the tickets from the machine (the buy one, get one half off deals that pop up periodically in Arrive come to mind), but buyer beware—no guarantees. You can't fault Amtrak; they were bit hard by a leaked 25% off code about two years ago.
> ...


In those situations, if it's a coupon you need to trade in, you have to pay with a credit card over the phone and then mail the coupon into Philadelphia (although not all agents are trained in how to do this, in my experience; some have told me that I'm up a creek unless I can get to a station to surrender the coupon); when they receive the coupon, they'll mail your tickets, or I imagine you can also ask to pick the tickets up from the conductor on board the train with a boarding code and your reservation number (although conductors won't collect coupons, so you'll still have to mail those in). This dance obviously requires more than a few weeks of cushion between your phone call and the train trip.

If it's just a promotional code, my experience dictates that it's really up to the phone agent or their manager as to whether or not they will mail you the tickets or tell you "tough luck," and it depends in large part on the terms and conditions of the promotion. Generally speaking, if they'll mail it to you without you mailing in a coupon, it's a ticket you can also get from a Quik-Trak.

Rafi


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## HP_Lovecraft (Aug 5, 2008)

> Well, shoplifting you don't pay anything, whereas a code you're still paying 50-80% of the fare. Not that I'm defending the fraudulent use of codes, but there is a difference.


If you walk into Walmart and stick a $50 pricetag on a $200 TV, that is called Shoplifting by both Walmart, and Law enforcement. Specifically in the case of improper use of codes, it is also considered "Theft by deception" on top of the shoplifting. You can "spin" the definition all you want, but its still not cool.

By "not cool", I mean all that does is make the codes HARDER to use. If Amtrak thinks the code is being abused, they might cancel it, or make it less useful, or make requirments harder to meet....etc..

That said, there is a difference between "Theft by deception", and "maximizing the codes".

For example, the Downeaster has a "Buy one, get one free" promotion for travel from BOSTON TO MAINE, and back.

The codes are setup to only work with early northbound, and late southbound trains. Yet, I use those codes all the time for travel just within Maine, or late travel into Boston, and coming back the next day.

I might be violating the "spirit" of the promotion, but it is definetly not theft. I'm not pretending to be a student, or have AAA.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 5, 2008)

Check me if I'm wrong, but if I recall for AAA, you have to give your number when making the res and the note says to have your card ready to display to the Conductor or Agent if picking up tickets; however I never have been asked to show my card.


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## amamba (Aug 5, 2008)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> > Well, shoplifting you don't pay anything, whereas a code you're still paying 50-80% of the fare. Not that I'm defending the fraudulent use of codes, but there is a difference.
> 
> 
> If you walk into Walmart and stick a $50 pricetag on a $200 TV, that is called Shoplifting by both Walmart, and Law enforcement. Specifically in the case of improper use of codes, it is also considered "Theft by deception" on top of the shoplifting. You can "spin" the definition all you want, but its still not cool.
> ...


I've also successfully utilized a "Boston" promotion. I just googled "amtrak coupon codes" and used one that was supposed to be for travel to Boston on the NEC. I had to book via a phone agent and they gave me the promotion one way, from DC to Boston since that was the spirit of the discount - travel to Boston.


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## sechs (Aug 6, 2008)

jackal said:


> Larz, while sechs does have a point that using a discount to which you are not entitled may not be the most ethical thing to do, what you suggest (using a QT machine) is the method that probably countless thousands of people use every day to skirt the requirements.


If you need to start out by setting morality or ethics aside, or you need to talk about skirting something, I think you need to seriously consider what you are posting.

Pretending, just for a moment, that this isn't illegal, can people posting here really feel good about helping people take what is not rightfully theirs? Amtrak isn't a money grubbing company; it loses money every year. So, it has to be supported by us, the American people, through our tax dollars. Is it really okkay to steal from all Americans for a discount on a train trip?

If you check your values at the door, don't be surprised if someone appropriates them while you're talking....


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## RRrich (Aug 6, 2008)

Everyone loves a bargain and if it is offered to some, why not all?

A newbie comes here trying to save a few VERY HARD EARNED $s - if some make him feel bad, he will be gone and IMHO this forum will likewise be gone.

Personally, I try to save at every opportunity - few tell me to my face that I am a bad person - not because I am 6'3" and weigh 250 lbs, but more likely because I have spent about 20 years of my life teaching in the High School, and while the Principal thought I was teaching Chemistry or Physics, I thought that it was more important that I try to teach the kids how to be good people.

Can you be a good person and still use a discount that you might not be entitled to? Some folks disagree with me. Fine with me, be wrong.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Check me if I'm wrong, but if I recall for AAA, you have to give your number when making the res and the note says to have your card ready to display to the Conductor or Agent if picking up tickets; however I never have been asked to show my card.


Yes, I think that you have to enter your AAA number when making the reservation. But if there's 3 or 4 people on the reservation, you could enter the *SAME* AAA number for everyone, and the computer will accept it. When you go to the window, the agent always asked to see my card, but not of the others. (But I have heard of times they request the card for everyone - but it's never happened to me.)

However, the Quik-Trak never wants to see my card. And I have *NEVER* been asked for it after I got the tickets! (Not to say it couldn't happen.)


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

_"Everyone loves a bargain and if it is offered to some, why not all?"_

And YOU teach?

There is a right and there is a wrong, surely as there is a left and a right, an up and a down. I don't want to beat the military drum to death, but believe me, you don't deserve by theft or otherwise that discount unless you paid the price. Why that one is only 10% mystifies me. Are you paying the price for a disability that makes your life more difficult? Are you in the group that Amtrak would think of as the future (students). Are you part of a convention that gets the discount because a large number of riders from the group could help grow business? Or, are you just a free-loader looking to ride in on someone else's shirttails? I think you fall in this last one. There are no free lunches. There is a reason for every discount. If you can't pay, don't play.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

*"I try to save at every opportunity *"

With that logic, why don't you just outright try shoplifting?


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## amamba (Aug 6, 2008)

Guest said:


> *"I try to save at every opportunity *"
> With that logic, why don't you just outright try shoplifting?


I find it interesting that anonymous posters are being so critical. How about you login, get a name, and participate in the forum?


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

amamba said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > *"I try to save at every opportunity *"
> ...


Don't see that as a requirement for a legitimate opinion.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Aug 6, 2008)

> Or, are you just a free-loader looking to ride in on someone else's shirttails?


And unfortunetly, its the "bad apple" that ruins it for everyone else.

I'm a thrifty person, so I hunt for good deals. But I stay within the rules. Its not that hard since Amtrak has plenty of deals going on all the time, so I'll just plan my trips around those promotions.

For example-

POR-BON-POR for me, my wife, and 2 kids is normally $144.

Books 3 days in advance, and get sale price: $117

Kids ride free on sunday promotion: $78

Use up some AGR points: $39

AAA-discount (legit): $35

No rules broken, and the trip is even cheaper then driving. I just had to be flexible, and plan in advance, but its worth the 75% in savings.


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## MrFSS (Aug 6, 2008)

Friends - this one is slowly going down hill. Lets all play nice and keep the discussion about Amtrak.

Thanks!!!


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## amamba (Aug 6, 2008)

Guest said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


It's just hard to determine if its one person posting as multiple guests or multiple people. I like to keep that straight, that is all, to know who is participating and what they are saying. If you don't want a login, that is fine, but maybe make yourself guest 15 or something? Just a suggestion, no need to get snarky.


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## Walt (Aug 6, 2008)

I, too, like to save money, and make use of coupon or promotional codes whenever I can. However, I would not sell my soul for one.

At least to me, there is a major difference between finding a general/generic discount code who's existence isn't being widely distributed, and finding a code that has specific requirements like belonging to a particular organization.

I would never make a false claim that I am a member of some organization, when I know in fact I am not a member. Now, if the offer is good enough, I might look into joining that organization (ie, join AQHA and get a $500 rebate from Ford).


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 6, 2008)

I moderate a couple of other unrelated forums. We find that anonymous posters are sometimes legitimate members that have dual memberships, the 2nd being the "guest". Then they start an argument with themselves, get all kinds of attention with a hot thread, and no one is the wiser. Until we check their originating IP address. If they match, we boot them out. They're called trolls.


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## MrFSS (Aug 6, 2008)

PetalumaLoco said:


> I moderate a couple of other unrelated forums. We find that anonymous posters are sometimes legitimate members that have dual memberships, the 2nd being the "guest". Then they start an argument with themselves, get all kinds of attention with a hot thread, and no one is the wiser. Until we check their originating IP address. If they match, we boot them out. They're called trolls.



Several other forums I belong to, but not as a moderator, don't allow guests to post. Our admins here allow guests and we try to keep an eye on things. Sometimes it does get out of hand.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

amamba said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > amamba said:
> ...


No need for YOURSELF to get snarky, either, sister. The moderators have control over what's posted and what's not and that's good enough for me. You need to make it good enough for yourself. When some have suggested throwing other pax from a moving train, it's not deleted. Suggesting that an illegal activity like fraudulent usage of codes is wrong should remain. If it has to be comparisoned out in detail to less acceptable forms of illegal activity for someone to understand it, so be it. The fraudulent use of codes causes problems for Amtrak. They have to spend more $ and time monitoring their usage. Perhaps conventions are allowed so many pax at a certain discount before having to pay full price. Fraudulent use of those codes makes it difficult for Amtrak to convince the organizers that Amtrak will give them a discount. Amtrak wanted that business but illegal usage takes away from the business purpose thought out by Amtrak.

Accept the fact. It's wrong. Don't do it. There are times when I am hoping that Amtrak is monitoring these forums carefully for illegal activity. This is one of those times. There's a reason that they have an OIG office and an ethics committee.

As for "guest" postings. IME, some of the best answers have come from the guests and putting a 15 or a 16 after the name still doesn't mean anything.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 6, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > I moderate a couple of other unrelated forums. We find that anonymous posters are sometimes legitimate members that have dual memberships, the 2nd being the "guest". Then they start an argument with themselves, get all kinds of attention with a hot thread, and no one is the wiser. Until we check their originating IP address. If they match, we boot them out. They're called trolls.
> ...


Ok, understood. Sometimes the trolls log on as 2 legitimate members and carry out their shenanigans.

Sorry about the drift off topic...


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > I moderate a couple of other unrelated forums. We find that anonymous posters are sometimes legitimate members that have dual memberships, the 2nd being the "guest". Then they start an argument with themselves, get all kinds of attention with a hot thread, and no one is the wiser. Until we check their originating IP address. If they match, we boot them out. They're called trolls.
> ...


MrFSS,

You let "named" posters get out of line, too. Perhaps you're deleting a number of guest posts that we don't see, but sometimes the moderating is too loose/tight on regular posters. I've seen the deletion of Whooz's posts on Bush (by AlanB?) and even though I'm 180 from Whooz, I didn't think they should have been deleted. Whooz is less irritating (and definitely more entertaining) than Neil Boortz. On the other hand, a certain other named poster should be regularly regulated because of how those posts would appear to a 1st time reader who doesn't stick around after reading them and has come here seeking legitimate information.

As for _guests_. By the postings on these boards a lot of personal information is put out for the world to see. The moderators see my IP and can know my/your plans. Posting as "guest" is a security issue for me. When x poster talks about upcoming plans and has for some time talked about his hometown and his life and family that person is taking on a security risk. Although, I've never met him, I can probably tell you what reputatious apartment building a certain older poster lives in by the descriptions on here and it's not that far from my home. In reverse, that's TMI. Identify theft is a fast growing crime in this country.

Stick around and you'll find that the illegal usage of Amtrak codes generally brings out ire.

Permanent GUEST


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## AAARGH! (Aug 6, 2008)

Ethics is a slippery slope. Once you start sliding, it's very easy to keep going. Rationalization is a powerful and often destructive thing.

To me, there is a difference between trying to use a discount for which you are not entitled (by deception, Amtrak error (they didn't question your validity), or not being asked for proof) AND general Amtrak discount nuances. By nuances I mean how a fare rule works.

SO, if there is a coupon code advertised for travel between certain city pairs, BUT the agent / website allows it to be used for a non-published pair, that is fine in my book. The onus there is on Amtrak to not allow the booking of non-published pairs with that coupon code. The difference is you didn't break any rules by claiming a discount that was not indended for you. In this example, the discount was for anyone.

I can say that if Amtrak makes an error in my favor when I was not being deceptive, then that is fine too. But if it is an obvious large error, I usually question them to make sure, even if that means they correct the error. I like staying at the top of that slippery slope. When it is minor or inconsequential, I usually leave it alone. Of course if the error is in their favor, look out! :angry:


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## Ryan (Aug 6, 2008)

The moderators have access to your IP whether you log in or not, so if you don't trust them, you shouldn't be posting.

Since us mere mortals don't have access to the IP addresses, your logging in or out is irrelevant.

While guests are certainly entitled to their opinions, an opinion from someone who's not willing to put at least a made up online identity isn't going to carry much, if any weight with me (and many others I'm sure).

In short, if you're not interested in sharing personal details, don't do so whether you're logged in or not. Hiding behind a wall of "guest" provides only an illusion of security. (just this man's $0.02).


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

HokieNav said:


> The moderators have access to your IP whether you log in or not, so if you don't trust them, you shouldn't be posting.
> Since us mere mortals don't have access to the IP addresses, your logging in or out is irrelevant.
> 
> _While guests are certainly entitled to their opinions, an opinion from someone who's not willing to put at least a made up online identity isn't going to carry much, if any weight with me (and many others I'm sure)._
> ...


I'm very much aware of the moderators having my IP address (and have been on here quite awhile) and am not concerned about _them_. It's going to stay as it is. It doesn't take just an IP address to identify someone from these boards in public. You are a little short-sighted in that belief.

"While guests are certainly entitled to their opinions, an opinion from someone who's not willing to put at least a made up online identity isn't going to carry much, if any weight with me (and many others I'm sure)."

Personally, I don't care. Neither do I care about "my posts totalling more than yours" nor how many miles my rides total. I've learned more in certain circumstances from the anonymous posters than some who are named. I do, however, share in common the long term survival of Amtrak.

_In short, if you're not interested in sharing personal details, don't do so whether you're logged in or not. Hiding behind a wall of "guest" provides only an illusion of security. (just this man's $0.02)._

You overvalued that opinion and since you're not the moderator, in plain English, you don't get to tell me or others how to participate on the board.

_"if you're not interested in sharing personal details, don't do so whether you're logged in or not_"

That's not your decision to make. It's mine and I think about what I'm sharing every time I post.

Your posts appears to be a smoke screen to encourage the fraudulent use of codes. Why don't you return to that subject?


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 6, 2008)

???



> Your posts appears to be a smoke screen to encourage the fraudulent use of codes. Why don't you return to that subject?


Where did that come from? That was HokieNav's first post in this thread. I don't see where HokieNav ever supported or encouraged fraudulent use of codes.

Looks like you're putting up a smoke screen to take the heat off.


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## Dan O (Aug 6, 2008)

I would not encourage someone to use a code that they are not entitled to use. I did purchase a ticket using student advantage for my kids but they are both students and have the Student Advantage cards as well. I did wish my son had been born a few months later so I could have gotten his ticket for half price.

RE guests--it is hard to tell if there is one guest posting, or several. I don't recall what the forum even asks when registering. I would think if you don't want to give your location, one could be vague (eastern US) and not post about local events that would give away one's location.

While I agree w/ at least one anonymous guest that codes should not be fraudulently used, I think it dimishes their credibility for some when they opt to not use a registered name. Plus it opens them up to having someone post something disagreeable in "their name."

Dan


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## sechs (Aug 6, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> Friends - this one is slowly going down hill. Lets all play nice and keep the discussion about Amtrak.


It's hard to go furthur downhill than where this one started. Some here are trying to get up it!


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## dspacekd (Aug 7, 2008)

We just booked 4 tickets in Sleeper on Amtrak cross-country. I could have easily gotten a discount on some of the tickets, but being honest is the best policy. I like having a clear conscience.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

Dan O said:


> I would not encourage someone to use a code that they are not entitled to use. I did purchase a ticket using student advantage for my kids but they are both students and have the Student Advantage cards as well. I did wish my son had been born a few months later so I could have gotten his ticket for half price.
> RE guests--it is hard to tell if there is one guest posting, or several. I don't recall what the forum even asks when registering. I would think if you don't want to give your location, one could be vague (eastern US) and not post about local events that would give away one's location.
> 
> While I agree w/ at least one anonymous guest that codes should not be fraudulently used, I think it dimishes their credibility for some when they opt to not use a registered name. Plus it opens them up to having someone post something disagreeable in "their name."
> ...


It is always refreshing to find parents who care enough to teach their kids by example and aren't afraid to say, "there's a right and there's a wrong. I'm not your friend, I'm your parent and that's my job... and that doing the right thing is not always going to be easy in the culture that you're inheriting, but in the end you've got to live with yourself and your decisions regardless of the lemmings around you."

Re: names. You guys don't get it. I DONT CARE. I've discovered that no ONE person on this forum has all of the answers and that sometimes, the best come from the anonymous. Whether the word used is "Guest" or "Anonymous" is irrelevant.

Dan O: If I posted enough times with my plans (origin and destination) or questions about my plans under a name, sooner or later, you (and the world) would know pretty much where I live. Common sense says that you don't tell the world your plans about being away from your home, just as you don't put your kids' names on their shirts to avoid the familiarity with strangers. If your kids were very young and you put their names/pictures on here, you shouldn't be surprised if someone in the future walks up to your kids on a train and calls them by name. Pay attention to the number of "guests" at the bottom of the screen. A common phrase of mine is, "don't invite trouble into your life".

For a little exercise, google some of the "names" and see what you learn.

If posters are willing to use discount codes fraudulently, what else are they willing to do fraudulently?


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

PetalumaLoco said:


> ???
> 
> 
> > Your posts appears to be a smoke screen to encourage the fraudulent use of codes. Why don't you return to that subject?
> ...


Why don't YOU return to the subject? _Posting names _is not the topic, _coupon codes _is.


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## amamba (Aug 7, 2008)

I agree that it is wrong to use a code for a special group if you are not part of the group, but I still don't see anything wrong with using a code for travel to Boston on one portion of a roundtrip ticket from Boston to somewhere else. You have to call to get the discount and the agent on the phone agreed with me that it was using the spirit of the code if it was used on the portion traveling to Boston.

If Amtrak really wanted to cut down on fraudulent use of the codes they should make all of them only available for purchase over the phone, that way an agent can verify them.


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## gmcguire (Aug 7, 2008)

A few comments:

1) I think some posters are confusing morality with legality. These are not the same thing.

2) I would be perfectly willing to look the other way in some situations, saving $20 on a ticket means a lot more to some unfortunate people than it does to me.

3) I think it's up to the original poster to decide if the proposed action is morally justified. It has been pointed out that such action may not be the best way to ensure Amtrak's long-term viability. Let it rest at that.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 7, 2008)

Guest said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > ???
> ...


Ok, come clean, this isn't yesterday's Guest_Guest_*, this is a different Guest_Guest_*, right? There may be dozens of you for all I know.


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## Walt (Aug 7, 2008)

gmcguire said:


> 1) I think some posters are confusing morality with legality. These are not the same thing.


The way I look at it, any confusion doesn't matter because both are being violated. Claiming to belong to an organization that you aren't really a member of, is both immoral (lying) and illegal (fraud).


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

gmcguire said:


> A few comments:
> 1) I think some posters are confusing morality with legality. These are not the same thing.
> 
> 2) I would be perfectly willing to look the other way in some situations, saving $20 on a ticket means a lot more to some unfortunate people than it does to me.
> ...


Go look up the definition of fraudulent and come back to discuss morality versus legality. As my county's sheriff explained at a community meeting: "either you raise them or I will". Amtrak is already dealing with people who don't know how to behave in public. That is money wasted that could be put to other uses such as running trains or refurbishing them. The fraudulent use of coupon codes is little different than someone who fraudulently uses welfare, WIC vouchers or other forms of public assistance. Would you then say to those users, "it's up to the original poster to decide if the proposed action is morally justified". The real authority lies in Amtrak's ability to catch and prosecute someone who has taken the low road and face it, that's what you are trying to get around by using coupon codes unjustifiably. Bear in mind that the amount of money involved may escalate this "harmless" theft into a felony. Someone with experience in that field will have to jump in on that one.

Repeat after me: "Using coupon codes you are not entitled to is wrong." Sooner or later it may sink in.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

amamba said:


> I agree that it is wrong to use a code for a special group if you are not part of the group, but I still don't see anything wrong with using a code for travel to Boston on one portion of a roundtrip ticket from Boston to somewhere else. You have to call to get the discount and the agent on the phone agreed with me that it was using the spirit of the code if it was used on the portion traveling to Boston.
> If Amtrak really wanted to cut down on fraudulent use of the codes they should make all of them only available for purchase over the phone, that way an agent can verify them.


How would an agent verify a membership card over the phone? ..... I'm not picking on your Boston trip. If you are within the terms of the discount, whatever that is, no problem. Instinct says that you were given a discount that was allowed or you are a very charming person. Just as one chain store found "discounts" being offered to friends of the cashier and prosecuted, I would think that Amtrak has some sort of internal check that scans the discounts being given by the phone agents for propriety. They could be risking their job to give you one to which you weren't entitled (if you indeed were not). An internal auditor worth their pay would find these anomalies. They certainly had a problem with an issue known as Alaska-gate and it was eventually caught.

I would think that Amtrak signs a formal agreement with the organizations with which it does discounts and spells out the terms there. It should include period of time, those entitled and so forth.


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## Ryan (Aug 7, 2008)

Guest said:


> I'm very much aware of the moderators having my IP address (and have been on here quite awhile) and am not concerned about _them_. It's going to stay as it is. It doesn't take just an IP address to identify someone from these boards in public. You are a little short-sighted in that belief.


What's short sighed about my beliefs? If you don't want to divulge personal details, don't. What's so hard about that?


> Personally, I don't care. Neither do I care about "my posts totalling more than yours" nor how many miles my rides total. I've learned more in certain circumstances from the anonymous posters than some who are named. I do, however, share in common the long term survival of Amtrak.


Where did I mention anything about post counts or miles traveled? You're starting to put words in my mouth and I don't like that one bit.


> You overvalued that opinion and since you're not the moderator, in plain English, you don't get to tell me or others how to participate on the board.


How is merely sating my opinion "overvaluing it"? Am I not just as entitled to hold and share an opinion as you are?


> That's not your decision to make. It's mine and I think about what I'm sharing every time I post.


I'm not claiming to make that decision for you. You seem to be claiming that those of us that do stand behind our identity shouldn't be sharing some of the details that we do. Quite frankly, that's not _YOUR_ decision to make either.


> Your posts appears to be a smoke screen to encourage the fraudulent use of codes. Why don't you return to that subject?


What started as a polite discussion now has moved to legitimate heat with you, stranger. Who the **** are you tell me what it is I should or shouldn't discuss? If you didn't want your views on privacy discussed, you ought not have delved into them. When in my post did I indicate at all that I was encouraging fraud? I'll be standing by for your apology.
Moderater edit of one word, count to 10 please.

Sorry, GG-1 - I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned, especially by someone unable to stand by their words. I'll count to 10 next time, promise.


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## had8ley (Aug 7, 2008)

WOW !!! Why doesn't Mr./Ms. "Guest" register and take his/her licks like everyone else? You're starting to remind me of a computer stalker lashing out at the world. I'll be the first to admit that I have tirades but I do come down to earth once and a while for air and R and R. This is about AMTRAK; unfortunately you didn't see that and took it to the UNLIMITED level. Cool your heels and sit back and REGISTER !!!


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

Had8ley etal, (cool your hot head Had8ley)

...apparently, I am (taking my licks)...you dole them out to guests and the named . This topic is not about me or my posting habits (a smoke screen if you ask me since the topic is about Coupon Codes in an AU forum) but since that seems to be a concern (always a concern of mine) I found a link to a site about staying smart in your online habits. It appears that it is from the Australian (?) government. There is a link in there somewhere (if it doesn't automatically appear) about posting to social networking sites.

http://www.staysmartonline.gov.au/smart_tr...t?result_page=8

I would never feel comfortable sharing the amount of personal information under an id that many of you seem to do and find it odd that so many of you do when so much information on the web tells you that it isn't wise. That's just the way it is. I didn't make up the rules but I do pay attention to them. Within the last 3 months 1 family member has gone through identity theft and an elderly friend was robbed of her purse/cc/car at knifepoint and her life threatened. Her attacker killed another elderly woman the next day. Neither (elderly situations) probably had anything to do with the internet but this is the world in which we live.

If this were a site like Yahoo groups where entry was gained by special permission, it might be a different story, but this is a website available to _anyone _with internet access. That's a lot of people.

These seem to be issues that many of you have never considered. I do almost everytime I post. It's called discretion.

On T, in the next newspaper that contains manufacturers coupons read the fineprint carefully on a coupon. On some you'll find references to fraud in the instructions to a redeeming consumer and that's on a 50c coupon.


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 8, 2008)

Man..never thought about all the info I have put out there. My girlfriend (or maybe its a boyfriend) and I reside in the US. It might be in Lincoln PA, or Lincoln IL. But its really not Lincoln NE. I work at the United States DHL Federal Parcel Post and I really don't ride the train that much, matter of fact, I haven't ever ridden Amtrak. I just like to talk about it. Just looked out my window and saw someone with an Amtrak t-shirt looking at my house with binoculars. Maybe I don't live in a house, it might be a mobile home....in Lincoln PA, in amongst the Amish...who ride trains. Just got a good look at the person watching my house/mobile home/condominium/motor home and the person is wearing a black hat, suspenders and has a beard but no mustache. Sure he didn't get my info from the internet cuz the Amish don't use the internet. Or do they? He just asked me if I wanted some candy...I'm hungry so I said "sure!" But maybe I didn't take him up on the offer. Maybe it was a woman poster from AU in a disguise? :lol: I found a red hat and purple shirt behind my front porch from a possible Redhatter that used the v851 code but how did they get from Oklahoma City to Lincoln NE....er Pennsylvania? 

Guest, Guest Sal


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## had8ley (Aug 8, 2008)

I have but one thing to add to your mystery status~LOSER~ and big time at that. Case closed and I hope our moderators would shut it down. Our "Guest" has overstepped his/her boundaries and is not adding but subtracting from the good of the site. AMEN !!!


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## Bigval109 (Aug 8, 2008)

Moving right along. I'm looking for a promo code to use for a free trip to somewhere to move away from this heated discussion. Promo codes help people like me travel more. Like most of you I love to ride the train. I usually spend my entire vacations riding somewhere Amtraks goes. My favorite promo code was the H570 which gave you a 25% discount. What was your favorite code? The promo code to die for was the one from Icelandic air where you could get 50% of the price of the sleeper, which was only for it's employees. Do I look Icelandic to you? Oh crap my skin is to dark. Oh well it was fun thinking about it.


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## Ryan (Aug 8, 2008)

Guest said:


> Neither (elderly situations) probably had anything to do with the internet but this is the world in which we live.


Precisely. Just a few weeks ago, someone broke into my truck and stole some stuff. Is it because I disclosed that I had that stuff on another forum site (easily located on Google) or is it because some scumbag picked a random suburban street to smash and grab a couple of windows?

Bad things happen regardless. The decision on how much to share online is a personal one, yet you continue to lecture on why your method is better. You do what works for you, let us do what works for us. I will concede that you have a bit of a point on this site, where we tend to discuss upcoming trips. It would be a relatively nontrivial exercise for someone to spend 5 minutes with Google and find my real name, and probably only slightly more trivial to find my address. Pair that with me saying here that I'm going to be traveling on train X from Y/ZZ to A/BB and you can assume that you've got an address that will be vacant for your thievery pleasure. Of course, that doesn't account for the fact that the house may not be empty, the alarm system or the neighbors, but there certainly is an element of added risk there that I'll keep in mind.

Still standing by for your apology on the whole "you condone fraud thing", since you kindly just disregarded my entire post.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 8, 2008)

You know, if there is someone here that is looking to rip off vacant homes of travelers, it's probably a *guest*.


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