# Canadian Off Season Timekeeping



## PaTrainFan (Feb 2, 2020)

Planning well ahead for a possible Canadian trip in 2021. Is timekeeping better on the Canadian during the off season when the consist is shorter and less time is spent in the hole waiting on freights, or is there no meaningful difference? While I would prefer summer travel, more important to me is sleeper (roomette in traditional parlance) with full access to the Park car. Frankly even if I could afford it, not high on "Prestige Class" because I prefer the traditional accommodations. And while I would rather save the best for last it appears the consensus is eastbound for the best views. Finally, thinking about fall, and how far in advance is it smart to make the reservations? I rode the Canadian (and Super Continental) as a child with my parents and the Canadian again in 1988. Been wanting a return trip ever since. Appreciate the input.


----------



## jiml (Feb 2, 2020)

If access to the Park car is important and you don't want to pay big bucks, you'll have to do off-season. As far as timekeeping, I don't think there's any logic to it. Any savings resulting from the shorter consist and all that goes with that could be eaten up by weather delays. Like yourself, I've done the trip in both directions several times. My main observation is that eastbound tends to be pretty anti-climatic once you hit the Prairies, whereas the westbound (or better still, a delayed westbound) can yield amazing views while giving you time to acclimatize to the train before you get to the best parts. I read recently that the food service may be better and more frequent eastbound - breakfast, lunch and dinner vs. brunch and dinner westbound. Not sure the latest status of this.


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 2, 2020)

The length of the train does not really impact timekeeping, as even the super long 26 car summer consists are far shorter than freight trains and fit into almost all CN sidings.

Far more important is the (relatively) new schedule. With this schedule, the days of the routinely 16-24 hour late trains appear to be over, at least for the time being. Expect the train to be 2-5 hours late in the middle and on time or fairly close to it at the endpoints.

I ride it about once a year and I vastly prefer the off season train. It is more relaxed, the train is a normal length (9-15 cars) for a passenger train, you have Park Car access, and the fares are lower. Note that full off season rates kick in after 11/1. Shoulder season rates in October are closer to high season rates. Also, bear in mind that the Park Car restrictions last until the second or third week of October.

Fare structure is much simpler than Amtrak's. There are 3 fare seasons, peak, shoulder, and off peak. There are only two fare levels in each, discount and regular. The only yield management VIA does is the amount of inventory offered in discount. There is also the Sleeper Plus Sale page. This is a distressed inventory sale, and is offered between specific points on specific departures in specific accommodations, released roughly 6-8 weeks prior to departure. The deals are the best you can get, but the restrictions make it difficult for long term planning.

Under the current schedule the difference in scenery on each direction is much less than it was. Both have a full ration of the Rockies now. I still prefer eastbound myself, but that is now because of the afternoon arrival in Toronto, as opposed to the 8 am arrival in Vancouver.

When I rode both directions in November, they served full breakfast, lunch, and dinner each day eastbound except the last day, where they served brunch. Westbound they had continental breakfast, brunch and dinner. When I asked the service manager about the difference, he said they had gotten a lot of complaints about the brunch, dinner arrangement every day and that they would be going back to full breakfast, lunch and dinner shortly for westbound as well. I do not know if that happened, but I would tend to trust the SM as a source.


----------



## jiml (Feb 2, 2020)

zephyr17 said:


> The length of the train does not really impact timekeeping, as even the super long 26 car summer consists are far shorter than freight trains and fit into almost all CN sidings.


It's not the length of sidings. The summer consists often require multiple stops at smaller stations - just like Amtrak. More doors open, more passengers getting some fresh air or smoking. It also takes 50% longer to fuel and service 3 locomotives than 2, then more cars have to be drained and re-watered. This all adds to station dwell times and takes a lot less time in the off-season. However, my point to the original poster was, any saving could be quickly wiped out by a winter storm or track blockage from a downed tree, etc.


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 2, 2020)

VIA seems to have a schedule that allows for sufficient dwell at service stops, even though the summer consist takes longer. Train servicing is not that large a factor in VIA's timekeeping, it is allowed for. The impact of CN dispatching is significantly greater.

Of course, the effect of needing to use more of the dwell is to reduce the amount of practical pad and VIA can use all the pad it can get. However, I follow the timekeeping of 1 and 2 fairly regularly and there does not appear to be much difference between summer and winter generally. Occurances like the recent Fraser River Canyon slide excepted. CN is pretty good about keeping their railroad open during winter months.


----------



## chakk (Feb 15, 2020)

My first trip on the Canadian 10 years ago in February was 9 hours late into Toronto, My 2nd trip on the Canadian last
October was 3 hours early into Vancouver.

The first trip had lots of freight interference. The second had little freight interference.

YMMV.


----------



## zephyr17 (Mar 5, 2020)

chakk said:


> My first trip on the Canadian 10 years ago in February was 9 hours late into Toronto, My 2nd trip on the Canadian last
> October was 3 hours early into Vancouver.
> 
> The first trip had lots of freight interference. The second had little freight interference.
> ...


And a much longer schedule...


----------



## west point (Mar 8, 2020)

# 1 running OK today


----------



## Bonser (Mar 9, 2020)

zephyr17 said:


> And a much longer schedule...


Yes, what a difference a longer schedule makes for OTP. I'm happy that VIA changed it because people now have a more reasonable expectation on arrivals and departures.


----------



## Willbridge (Mar 11, 2020)

Tom Booth said:


> Yes, what a difference a longer schedule makes for OTP. I'm happy that VIA changed it because people now have a more reasonable expectation on arrivals and departures.


My experience with writing schedules and my observation of main line railways -- particularly CN -- is that the extra time is gradually soaked up and delays resume when they think no one important is looking.

Here's a recent report:
https://globalnews.ca/news/6591508/via-rail-delays-the-canadian/


----------

