# Point Earning Restriction - Same Train Same Day



## daveyb99 (Feb 17, 2013)

I took a roundtrip sleeper between FTW-AUS last month. I decided to change the departure to DAL (you get lunch between DAL-FTW, so why not). When I call AMTRAK, the change would have been too much, so I passed.

Then, I bought a one-way DAL-FTW, hoping I could get my room in DAL (didn't work, rats) and lunch.

SO ... I got credit for the DAL-FTW ticket, but not the FTW-AUS ticket. I filed a missing points request, and WOW!!!, Guest Rewards called me about it. They were baffled why I did not get the credit, and attributed it to how my name was on the reservation. Well, I said, thanks -- since all tickets were the same name, so that could not be it.

They call back about an hour later with the word: a traveller can not get credit for the two tickets on the same train on the same day. They would be happy to credit me for either ticket, but not both.

Anyone else run across that?


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 17, 2013)

Yes, that is the Policy! The way around it is to ride #421 (on the Three Days a Week it Runs) say DAL-FTW, then #21 from FTW-AUS which Qualifies for 2 Different Trips on 2 Different Trains on the Same day! Currently there is a Limit of No More than 4 One Way Trips in One Day on DIFFERENT Trains for Points and Some of the Promos such as Double/Triple Points have had a Limit of Two in One Day! :wacko:

Any more and you just get the Points for the Dollars Spent on Amtrak and your AGR MC!


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## the_traveler (Feb 17, 2013)

Yes, that is one of the "recent" rule changes (of the past few years). Ou can now only receive credit if trains have different numbers on each train. But there are ways around that too! h34r: (Did you think I wouldn't find them? :giggle: )

In KIN, I take an 8:xx train BOS-KIN arriving at 9:3x. I then sit in my car in the parking lot for 1 hour and board the 10:3x train to OSB or NHV. Since it has a different train number, I get credit for both trips. In the case of the TE, it's harder - but not impossible. Take train #421 on one segment and train #21 on the other segment. Different train numbers - credit for both trains! 

*EDIT*: I hate it when Jim thinks like I do! :angry:


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 17, 2013)

:hi: That's because I learned from the AGR Master!  (But don't let it go to your head! :giggle: )


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## PRR 60 (Feb 17, 2013)

One correction: The four trip limit per day is only for trips earning the 100 point minimum. There is no daily limit for trips earning more than the 100 point minimum ($50 cost).

Would it even be possible to take more than four trips with one earning more than 100 points? Absolutely. Lets say you were in San Francisco and later that evening were taking the Coast Starlight to Seattle. To kill time during the day, you could take a points run to Stockton - a bus and train each way. The cost is $10 each way, $20 round trip (not a bad points run, by the way). The SF - Stockton round trip would be your four trip limit at the 100 point minimum. Then, after you get back to SF and have dinner, you board the bus to Emeryville for the northbound Starlight. Since the bus is your fifth trip that would earn the 100 point minimum, you would earn no points for the bus. However, the Starlight trip, your sixth trip of the day, cost more than $50 and is not a 100 point trip. Despite the fact that is your sixth trip on the same day, it would earn points.


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## the_traveler (Feb 17, 2013)

A small correction on PRR 60's answer. It depends on the order the trips post to your AGR account. It is possible that a $70 segment posts as the "4th segment" before a $10 segment. So you may not get 4 segments of 100 point minimums.


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## PRR 60 (Feb 17, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> A small correction on PRR 60's answer. It depends on the order the trips post to your AGR account. It is possible that a $70 segment posts as the "4th segment" before a $10 segment. So you may not get 4 segments of 100 point minimums.


That is not correct. The limit is four 100 point minimum trips. The $70 trip is not a 100-point minimum trip and thus does not count toward the limit of four. It does not matter when it posts. Whether the $70 trip posts first or fourth or sixth does not matter. Only the 100 point minimum trips are counted toward the daily limit.


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## the_traveler (Feb 17, 2013)

Even if the 5th and 6th segments to post are $3 bus segments that do not post automatically, and you have to call a month or two later? :blush:


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## PRR 60 (Feb 17, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> Even if the 5th and 6th segments to post are $3 bus segments that do not post automatically, and you have to call a month or two later? :blush:


Yes. As long as you do not exceed four 100-point minimum trips in one day, they will all post for 100 points each. The total number of trips during the day does not matter. Only the 100-point minimum trips are counted. If the first trip posted for the day is $70 (140 points), it does not count toward the four trip limit. Your remaining minimum-point trips for the day is still four. If three minimum-point trips post, then a $70 trip posts, your have one remaining minimum-point trip.

The logic behind this is to prevent the posting order of the trips from impacting the number of points earned. It does not matter when each trip posts. Paid trips over the $50 minimum are not counted will always earn points. The minimum point trips will always be limited to four. The key is to recognize that only 100-point trips are counted toward the daily limit, not all trips.


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## AlanB (Feb 17, 2013)

PRR 60 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > A small correction on PRR 60's answer. It depends on the order the trips post to your AGR account. It is possible that a $70 segment posts as the "4th segment" before a $10 segment. So you may not get 4 segments of 100 point minimums.
> ...


I have seen reports of people complaining that they did not get four 100 minimums when a higher priced ticket was in the mix. I'm not sure just what the actual rules are in this case, but it would appear from past posts that I've seen on various forums that one doesn't always get 4 minimum if other trips are involved.

First, for simplicity let's say that you book 4 trips that will all invoke the minimum, and 1 trip that will not invoke the minimum.

From what I've seen reported, here's what happens:

If the points from the 4 minimum trips post to your account first and then the 5th trip posts, you'll get 4 - 100 point trips plus 2 X $ for the 5th.

If that 5th trip posts before one or more of the 4 minimum trips post, then when the final minimum trip hits your account it will post for zero points because you've already got 4 trips for that day on the books. It doesn't seem to matter that you didn't invoke the minimum rule 4 times, but only that 4 trips have posted and they stop paying minimums.

And I've seen mixed reports over the years, some claiming that they got zero points as I indicated above, some saying that they got 2 X $ for that 4th minimum ticket. To my recollection, no one got anywhere speaking with an agent on the phone when they called about this.


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## PRR 60 (Feb 17, 2013)

AlanB said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Can you specifically reference a report where someone has not received four 100-point trips in one day because of a paid trip over $50 posting first for that day? I've never seen such a report. I've seen reports where someone has complained about not getting any points for the fifth minimum-point trip of the day (when they expected to at least get the 2X for the cost), but I have never seen a report of someone having a fifth trip get zero points because of a non-minimum paid trip posting prior to the fourth minimum-point trip.

This is what I understand to be the AGR procedure - that only 100-point trips are counted toward the maximum of four trips per day. It matches exactly the AGR T&C's for earning points. The purpose of that procedure is to prevent the loss of points simply because of the idiosyncrasies of the time it takes for trips to post. Why should points earned be based on how long it takes for certain trips to post?

In order to avoid a ping-pong argument, that is all I'm going to say. Five trips in a day is probably rare enough that it really does not matter.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 17, 2013)

This did happen to me. On the #14 train. I was riding LAX>SAC when my plans changed and I didn't have to be to my next job or another day. So I decided to get an extended ticket, LAX>SLM and SLM>SAC. I cancelled the smaller ticket but they gave me AGR points anyways. But the ticket going up to Salem was twice as much, and I never got points for it. After filling out the form twice with no results, I called and complained. The rep couldn't figure out why it wouldn't post points from LAX>SLM for the 16th (obviously it was the reason we're discussing.) So she manually inputted the points as me taking the train on the 17th instead. Which if you look at the dates and time, is physically impossible unless I were to take a plane from SAC back to LAX to ride it right back up. Which is still impossible cause it shows me also leaving Salem on the 17th as well.


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## Ryan (Feb 17, 2013)

For reference, here are the appropriate T&C's:



> Except as provided in this Section, Members who provide their Membership Number at the time of ticket purchase will earn 2 points for every $1 spent on Amtrak travel, a minimum of 100 points for each trip. A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per Member, per day, will be allowed to earn points under the 100-point minimum per trip rule. Any trips subsequent to the maximum of two roundtrips or four one-ways, per Member, per day will receive 2 points for every $1 if the trip's point value exceeds 100 points. The definition of a trip is the entirety of a Member’s travel in a given day, on the same train number. That is, Members may earn points for one train ticket used on a single train or individual train number on a single day. Multiple tickets for the same train or individual train number, on the same day, will not earn points.


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## Anderson (Feb 18, 2013)

I once got six legs credited in one day, but all were over $50. The short version is that it was a Charlie Foxtrot on AGR's part: I'd had to reschedule/rearrange a trip twice due to bad weather and limited availability, and for reasons known only to God all three itineraries posted. So I had three legs on the Zephyr, two legs on the Cap and one on the LSL, and I don't recall on the leg back home.

What I _think _screwed everything up was that I had to alter the reservation in the middle of a trip due to weather, and for some reason it all just "floated" through.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

Who is seriously taking more than four trips a day? Unless you're smuggling drugs back and forth, this really makes no sense.


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## trainman74 (Feb 18, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Who is seriously taking more than four trips a day?


People trying to make "points runs" can be _very_ serious about it.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

I know I've talked about these point runs in like 2-3 threads here but I was totally joking. Then again, it might be worth it if you live by a CA or metrolounge


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## roadman3313 (Feb 18, 2013)

I mean there are routings that would be more than 4 trips that are available in the booking system... say EMY-SAC (CC), SAC-SKN (Bus), SKN-BFD (SJ), BFD-LAX (Bus), and LAX-SAN (Train). Seems somewhat long but that would be 4 point minumums and one non-qualifying minimum as well.

A regular routing that could be 4 would be that same trip from SAC-SKN. Most of the routings I take to Southern California are at least 2-3 minimum trips. This isn't intentional for points. It is just the way that the system is designed and how the connections work. There are many daily options that are networked together, however to make the most of them they require transfers or bus connections.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

Is taking a bus get you 100? Cause you cant take a bus without a train ticket, I would think those would go hand in hand rather than giving a customer 200 points.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

Also, I've taken the same train, same route, same number one day and received points for both trips.


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## PRR 60 (Feb 18, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Also, I've taken the same train, same route, same number one day and received points for both trips.


That looks like two different days to me. 2/2 for BUF-ALB on 448, and 2/3 for PIT-BOS on 448.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

Just noticed that...interesting. I just checked the timetables and this is not an overnight train.

I left BUF heading to ALB and while on the train, I got a change in jobs and needed to head out to Providence, RI. So I got on my computer and tried buying a ticket ALB>BOS but Albany is drop off only. (Thanks to the friendly conductor when I was telling him what I was doing.) So I picked the next station, PIT and had that go through to Boston where I rented a car and drove from there, ect, ect. I wonder why the dates are different...


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## the_traveler (Feb 18, 2013)

Actually the dates listed for any overnight train is when the train departs it's origination city, not when you take it. (For example, you could get on 422 in STL going to CHI on the 4th, but it may register as the 1st, because 22 left LAX on the 1st.) normally it is not a problem, except if your travel date is during a promo period and the other is not.

I don't know why your PIT departure shows a different post date.

Also, 48 is departure only from ALB to NYP. 448 is not departure only between ALB and BOS.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 18, 2013)

It's the first one that's wrong, If you see the trip between the boxes, NYP>NFL was on the 2nd, and I got there like 10pm. Stayed there overnight, drove to BUF on the 3rd, and caught the train from there.


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## daveyb99 (Feb 19, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> The way around it is to ride #421 (on the Three Days a Week it Runs) say DAL-FTW, then #21 from FTW-AUS which Qualifies for 2 Different Trips on 2 Different Trains on the Same day!


AH Yes ... loopholes ... love them. Sadly, Fridays do not have both trains


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