# Hat Etiquette



## gmcguire (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.

My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


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## rrdude (Nov 25, 2010)

gmcguire said:


> Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> 
> My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


Doff it when you feel appropriate, it's a nice gesture, and obviously OFF in the DC, and NOT placed on the table. Chair, or knee if seat next to u is occupied.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 25, 2010)

Hats should only be worn when there's nothing between the sky and your head. Wearing a hat while under any protective structure is considered an insult. Or at least that's how I was taught.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Nov 25, 2010)

I wear an Amtrak ball cap pretty frequently while I am on the train. I find the crew is more likely to talk to me, or at least about my hat. There are usually a few people on board wearing hats throughout the trip, although I agree with RRdude I've never worn the hat while in the dining car.


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## rtabern (Nov 25, 2010)

Granted I might be a little more relaxed in my dress code because I am almost always on the train for fun daytrips somewhere in the Midwest... or for vacation... and almost never for business... but I honestly don't see a problem with wearing a ball cap anywhere on the train, including the dining car. I could see why some might not want to wear it in the DC (because it's probably the most formal place on the train) -- but I have done it numerous times and have seen plenty of other do it -- and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Only once have I seen a dining car stewart ask someone to take off their hat -- and that was on the Capitol Limited in the late 80's... when I was like 10.

I guess it also depends on what type of hat you are wearing -- I mean if it's a knit hat -- I would say NO to wearing it in the dining car. However, I like to wear my Amtrak hats (sorta like a previous poster said) when I am on the train -- I usually go between my Trails & Rails green ball cap and more recently my black Coast Starlight hat -- both are clean and are RR related -- and that seems appopriate for the DC even in my book.


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## Anderson (Nov 25, 2010)

I'd say a definite "no" to the DC (if I'm taking a sleeper, I usually wear a jacket and tie to meals...but I'm also quite old-fashioned in this regard, rather in spite of my age) and to any "social" area. In Coach, however, I think it's a debatable point...particularly on a crowded train, I think you can make a reasonable case for wearing your hat at your seat, if just to protect the hat from damage it would likely receive if stored anywhere else.

That said, an Amtrak hat would seem to occupy an odd position because of the nature of the train, and I suspect that might be allowable.


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 25, 2010)

gmcguire said:


> Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> 
> My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


May or may not help. http://www.gq.com/style/style-guy/accessories/200305/hat-etiquette


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## Anderson (Nov 25, 2010)

Pastor Dave said:


> gmcguire said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> ...


Did a bit of research and found this. In general, "public transportation" seems to count as a "public place", and Amtrak more or less counts as public transportation. Also, hat-on-in-car seems to be allowable (as long as it's not bumping on the roof, in which case you take it off for obvious reasons). The Dining Car gets exempted from, as it is in effect a sit-down restaurant.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2010)

If someone gets offended by something so insignificant as when you are supposed to wear a hat then I wouldn't worry about them anyway. Its what is under the hat that counts (your mind, not the receding hairline).


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## rtabern (Nov 25, 2010)

To each his/her own totally... and I'm going to keep wearing my Amtrak hats on the train and even if the DC if I see fit... but I have to say I am VERY surprised at the opinions expressed here.  I always thought a railfan wearing a RR-themed baseball hat on the train was okay, but it seems that opinion is mixed 50-50... and its like 10-90 against in the DC. Very interesting! And wow... I think it's cool you wear a suit jacket and tie in the DC... because it would remind me of the Great Days of RR'ing in the 1950's... but I am definetly not going to pack that when I go on vacation just for the DC. Then again, when I was in Boston for a wedding recently I kept the tux an extra day and wore it down at South Station to get some shots of me in front of the Acela in a tux... in fact its my Christmas card shot this year!


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## Everydaymatters (Nov 25, 2010)

No hat in the dining car, but I see no problem anywhere else on the train.


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## TVRM610 (Nov 25, 2010)

I really wouldn't worry about wearing a hat in to the dining car. Have you seen what people wear to the dining car? I don't think anyone is gonna care one little bit. In the OP's case, a formal hat would prob. make the car more classy.


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## abcnews (Nov 25, 2010)

Once in the 1980s I was sent down to Texas for work - and I recall stopping between Austin and San Antonio and catching a bite to eat in a "hole in the wall" place. They had unbelievable Texas beef Brisket served fresh off an open mesquite fire. And most of the men were wearing the appropriate style hats for that area - which just added to the moment, I felt like a cowboy coming in off the trail. So in a case like that - how can you knock them for eating lunch with their hats on.


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## MikefromCrete (Nov 25, 2010)

Take off your hat when you eat. That's just plain courtesy. Other than that, wear it if you want to, but I usually doff my hat (baseball-type caps most of the time) whenever I'm indoors.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 25, 2010)

I often wear a Red Beret, and even sometimes a bandanna when traveling and usually leave them on throughout the day.


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## lthanlon (Nov 25, 2010)

I pretty much follow tradition when wearing a hat...

IN THE STATION


I've kept my hat on while waiting in Chicago Union Station, Seattle King Street Station, Los Angeles Union Station and Denver Union Station.

When I'm in Amtrak's Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago, though, I'll remove my hat. The low ceiling in this room makes it feel less like a public space.

If I'm having a conversation with a lady, I remove my hat off regardless of location.



AT THE TICKET COUNTER OR QUIK-TRAK KIOSK


I do not remove my hat if I'm being assisted by a gentleman Amtrak representative.

I do remove my hat if I'm being assisted by a lady Amtrak representative.



ON THE TRAIN


The Dining Car is a restaurant; I never wear my hat there.

The Sightseer Lounge feels like a bar that serves snacks, and since everybody I know keeps his or her cowboy hat on in a saloon, I have no problem wearing mine here.

However, if I plan to spend time on the upper level watching the scenery during daytime, I won't wear my hat since it could block someone's view.

I generally do not wear the hat if I'm going to take a brief, there-and-back casual stroll through the train.



Here's an informative article about hat etiquette. And for those contemplating the purchase of a hat, here's My Guide to the Cowboy Hat Mystique.


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## Shawn Ryu (Nov 25, 2010)

I always wear my baseball cap (the only hat I ever wear), and keep it on. I dont see why i should take it off on a train, its not anyone's home.


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## dlagrua (Nov 25, 2010)

TVRM610 said:


> I really wouldn't worry about wearing a hat in to the dining car. Have you seen what people wear to the dining car? I don't think anyone is gonna care one little bit. In the OP's case, a formal hat would prob. make the car more classy.



Place your dirty hat on my table and I will remove it personally, using force if necessary. Removing your hat is just common courtesy. If you have no idea what manners are or why they exist, you have no place in a civilized society. Do you wear you hat in church, in court or during the pledge of allegiance? If you do you will be told to remove it. Point is that there are places to wear your stinkin hat and places not to.


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## Shanghai (Nov 25, 2010)

*My Mother told me if you wear a hat while eating, you will become bald in your later years!!*

*I never wear a hat while eating, however, I am becoming bald in my later years!!*


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## spot1181 (Nov 25, 2010)

I never wear a hat in the shower.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 25, 2010)

I have several drawers of beautiful colorful old brochures from the 40's and 50's. Almost nobody is wearing a hat. True, I did not see any hats in the dining car, but saw few anywhere.

The only group that stands out at all(and not many of them), seem to be men wearing hats when traveling on business, as in trains which catered to overnight business travel.

That is about it. Of course all dress wss more formal back then, no bandanas, etc.


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## leemell (Nov 25, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Hats should only be worn when there's nothing between the sky and your head. Wearing a hat while under any protective structure is considered an insult. Or at least that's how I was taught.


I was taught the same rule both at home and in the military and I follow it. I do have a bit of a problem with folks who wear them in restaurants and the DC.If I am traveling, I take hats that can be folded, thus eliminating the storage problem. That's the reason for the popularity of garrison caps in the service.


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## roomette (Nov 25, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > I really wouldn't worry about wearing a hat in to the dining car. Have you seen what people wear to the dining car? I don't think anyone is gonna care one little bit. In the OP's case, a formal hat would prob. make the car more classy.
> ...


Thanks for saying "MY table".

Seems to me removing a hat while in the dining car presents the opportunity for God knows what to become airborne and end up on the table or worse yet in my food.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2010)

Shawn Ryu said:


> I always wear my baseball cap (the only hat I ever wear), and keep it on. I dont see why i should take it off on a train, its not anyone's home.


I am the exact same way, baseball cap, and it remains on my head until I go to sleep. Do people seriously have nothing else to worry about than what I'm wearing? Ashame on them.


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## inspiration100 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sorry, I was guest above. I also want to add that I wear a baseball hat frequently because of a bump I got when I was young. My brother hit me hard with a baseball bat right on the forehead (yes, deservingly) and at certain times it becomes more noticeable than others. I believe people who are remarking that a hat is inappropriate have not been on a college campus recently. Everyone wears hats, and professors don't mind them in classrooms. It's changing times and you're welcome to hold your beliefs, but don't force them on the younger generation please.


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## rtabern (Nov 25, 2010)

Regardless of how you feel on this topic --> I would like to discover the origin of where the tradition started saying it was rude to wear a hat in certain places. Why do people think its rude to wear a hat in the dining car or indoors? Most everyone said its "just common courtesy" and I understand that -- but that got my curious mind searching here for the actual origin... or who decided that ettiquite?

Personally, if someone had dirty hair (as in, someone who has been in coach for 3 days with no shower access) -- I'd probably rather they have a hat ON!

Just sayin'...

RT


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## Tony (Nov 25, 2010)

As with all social rules pertaining to fashion, they change over time. Today, living in jeans is the norm, whereas 50 years ago only hoodlums and cowboys lived in jeans.

Hats, mostly baseball style caps, can be worn continuously (especially if you are wearing jeans too). True, a lot of guys use such a cap to hide thinning hair, dirty hair, or simply morning hair.

You should only remove your cap if removing your jeans would be OK too.


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## makai1976 (Nov 25, 2010)

I guess I don't get the "it's just common courtesy" thing. No doubt it's true, but it's old-fashioned and what's the point? Is there a logical reason for doing this? Otherwise, it seems like it boils down to "things used to be done this way." Thankfully we've shed some of the outdated traditions in American society.


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## NETrainfan (Nov 25, 2010)

makai1976 said:


> I guess I don't get the "it's just common courtesy" thing. No doubt it's true, but it's old-fashioned and what's the point? Is there a logical reason for doing this? Otherwise, it seems like it boils down to "things used to be done this way." Thankfully we've shed some of the outdated traditions in American society.



You mean like powdered wigs?


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## skyguy (Nov 25, 2010)

gmcguire said:


> Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> 
> My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


I'm a wearer of your style and am rarely found outdoors without a hat on my head but I don't wear one on the train mostly because there's no convenient place to put it where it won't get damaged or soiled. On the other hand, I see baseball caps worn all over the train.

"Every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man" ZZ Top


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## Anderson (Nov 26, 2010)

rtabern said:


> To each his/her own totally... and I'm going to keep wearing my Amtrak hats on the train and even if the DC if I see fit... but I have to say I am VERY surprised at the opinions expressed here.  I always thought a railfan wearing a RR-themed baseball hat on the train was okay, but it seems that opinion is mixed 50-50... and its like 10-90 against in the DC. Very interesting! And wow... I think it's cool you wear a suit jacket and tie in the DC... because it would remind me of the Great Days of RR'ing in the 1950's... but I am definetly not going to pack that when I go on vacation just for the DC. Then again, when I was in Boston for a wedding recently I kept the tux an extra day and wore it down at South Station to get some shots of me in front of the Acela in a tux... in fact its my Christmas card shot this year!


If I may, I think there's a distinct chance that regular train riders are likely to hold slightly more old-fashioned views. That said...wherever I'm going, I almost always have a reason to pack a coat and tie (if for no other reason than if I'm in a city I rarely get to, I'm probably going to take pains to have a fine dinner somewhere). It also stems from my first (recent) train ride back in 2006 or so: On my grandmother's advice, I made sure I was well-dressed for the occasion. Bless her, she was almost 90 at the time, and she remembered that era quite well...she actually took steps to make sure I had everything worked out well for the trip. So...I do stick to those fashion rules as best I can.

Now, on that trip, the hat-at-seat served a rather practical purpose (as it has for millions over the years), namely helping me to get a bit of shut-eye (I was riding coach overnight...so yes, I did in fact use the hat to sleep through as much of the Carolinas and Georgia as possible). Unless I misremember, while it went with me to the DC, but it _definitely_ it came off when I got in there.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 26, 2010)

rtabern said:


> Why do people think its rude to wear a hat in the dining car or indoors? Most everyone said its "just common courtesy" and I understand that -- but that got my curious mind searching here for the actual origin... or who decided that ettiquite?


I'll take a stab at trying to explain this.

Originally hats were used to help keep rain or sun off your head while you were outside. This was the same purpose behind umbrellas. Now imagine you walked into a home or a building with an umbrella still over your head. People might wonder what your problem was or if you thought you were about to be hit by falling debris or something. Imagine that you sat down to dinner still holding that silly umbrella over your head. Some of us would be rather confused as to what was going on. Maybe in your mind you're simply trying to use it to cover up your unwashed hair or hide some bump on your noggin or whatever, but the rest of us won't know that. All we see is some weirdo holding up an umbrella while they eat. I can't speak for everyone but that's how folks who wear hats inside look to me. It doesn't anger me so much as it makes me scratch my head and wonder what exactly they think they need to be shielded from indoors.


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## Everydaymatters (Nov 26, 2010)

rtabern said:


> Regardless of how you feel on this topic --> I would like to discover the origin of where the tradition started saying it was rude to wear a hat in certain places. Why do people think its rude to wear a hat in the dining car or indoors? Most everyone said its "just common courtesy" and I understand that -- but that got my curious mind searching here for the actual origin... or who decided that ettiquite?
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> RT


Robert, I think I might be able to answer your question. When I was in grade school, long before you were born hboy: we actually had a class on etiquette. We were taught which order people should be introduced, who should open a door for whom, flag etiquette, etc., and when and where hats should be worn. Books on etiquette were everywhere; you might have heard of Emily Post.

At that time, "rules" of etiquette were common practice everywhere. Anyone who didn't follow the "rules" was looked upon as having bad manners. On reading the replies to this thread, it seems there are still many who regard wearing a hat in the dining car as bad manners.


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## JayPea (Nov 26, 2010)

I usually wear a hat any place, other than in a restaurant, and that applies to the dining car as well. I remove it before entering the car. My hair is so fine (and getting sparser :lol: that no matter how carefully I comb it, two minutes later it looks as if I was standing in front of an airplane propeller. Men's hairspray doesn't even work. It's much easier for me to look halfway presentable if I cover my hair up. Naturally when I remove my hat for the diner my hair looks terrible, but it would look like that anyway!


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## Scott (Nov 26, 2010)

No shirt, no shoes, no service. If people have nothing better to do than get upset over someone wearing a hat in the DC, or worse, on board, then I say Amtak must being doing pretty darn well on that particular run!


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## makai1976 (Nov 26, 2010)

daxomni said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > Why do people think its rude to wear a hat in the dining car or indoors? Most everyone said its "just common courtesy" and I understand that -- but that got my curious mind searching here for the actual origin... or who decided that ettiquite?
> ...


Maybe they just like the way it looks? I think it would be hard to compare wearing a hat and holding an umbrella over the dinner table.

Keep in mind that this comes from a time when you'd also be allowed to smoke with dinner (or anywhere else), where significant sections of society were second-class citizens, and where few people were obese.


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## NETrainfan (Nov 26, 2010)

Our experience, during national and international travel, is that good manners is so much more important than etiquette rules. And, of course, etiquette rules around the world vary so much-such that something polite in one country might be considered rude in another.

Thus, if we are seated with people on a train, we are concerned with kindness, thoughtfulness, respect, and good communication rather than specific etiquette "rules" like when to wear a hat or which fork to use for salad.


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## leemell (Nov 26, 2010)

Tony said:


> As with all social rules pertaining to fashion, they change over time. Today, living in jeans is the norm, whereas 50 years ago only hoodlums and cowboys lived in jeans.
> 
> Hats, mostly baseball style caps, can be worn continuously (especially if you are wearing jeans too). True, a lot of guys use such a cap to hide thinning hair, dirty hair, or simply morning hair.
> 
> You should only remove your cap if removing your jeans would be OK too.


I think you will find that a judge in a courtroom would disagree.


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## Shawn Ryu (Nov 26, 2010)

NETrainfan said:


> Our experience, during national and international travel, is that good manners is so much more important than etiquette rules. And, of course, etiquette rules around the world vary so much-such that something polite in one country might be considered rude in another.
> 
> Thus, if we are seated with people on a train, we are concerned with kindness, thoughtfulness, respect, and good communication rather than specific etiquette "rules" like when to wear a hat or which fork to use for salad.


They only give you one fork anyway....I think...


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## guest (Nov 26, 2010)

I almost always wear a ballcap outdoors, and when driving my car - a matter of shielding my eyes from the sun - which sunglasses do not adequately do.

However I consider it impolite to eat at a table with others while wearing a hat, and I always remove mine.

I don't presume to tell others what to do - but if someone is seated at a table with me and they leave their hat on, I tend to have a negative impression of that person. Not extremely negative, but I would not take them as seriously in a conversation as I would someone who was more conscious of what many consider old-fashioned manners.


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## Scott (Nov 26, 2010)

Another thought. While it is true I would never wear a hat in a formal restaurant, it is hard to consider eating in the DC a formal affair when one's meal is served on plastic, disposable dinnerware.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2010)

People are worried about hats? How about worrying about people *running around on the train in flip flops.* First, that's a safety hazzard in my opinion, second, I don't want to hear your feet clicking throughout the train, third, I don't want to see your ugly feet. Now I find that WAY more repulsive.


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## Ispolkom (Nov 26, 2010)

No gentleman wears a hat inside, but given that I've eaten breakfast with passengers wearing pajamas and (in one memorable case) a nightdress, I can't bring myself to do more than sigh about how are living in fallen times.

Can we all agree put on clothes before coming to the dining car?


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## lthanlon (Nov 26, 2010)

Since it's now acceptable to wear baseball caps at all times, perhaps passengers could be issued ones in various colors and with bills cocked to positions indicating destination and seat or room assignment. Street gangs have already proved this means of categorization is rapid and efficient.


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## jmbgeg (Nov 26, 2010)

gmcguire said:


> Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> 
> My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


I have a friend who wears a baseball cap virtually all waking hours after taking a morning shower, and has for decades. No one seems to be offended by his attire. Personally, I have not worn hats since the 80's (about a 5 year cowboy hat stint).


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## Scott (Nov 26, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> Since it's now acceptable to wear baseball caps at all times, perhaps passengers could be issued ones in various colors and with bills cocked to positions indicating destination and seat or room assignment. Street gangs have already proved this means of categorization is rapid and efficient.


Words to live by from a man with some strange looking wig in his profile picture...


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## lthanlon (Nov 26, 2010)

Scott said:


> Words to live by from a man with some strange looking wig in his profile picture...


I tip my wig to you!


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 26, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> Since it's now acceptable to wear baseball caps at all times, perhaps passengers could be issued ones in various colors and with bills cocked to positions indicating destination and seat or room assignment. Street gangs have already proved this means of categorization is rapid and efficient.


I'm sure you meant this in jest. But, then again, you might have an idea worth considering... :blink:


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## hhswami (Nov 26, 2010)

I personally find wearing a baseball style cap on an overnight coach trip a necessity. When in the seat attempting to catch some sleep during nighttime hours, the bill pulled down over the eyes keeps hidden any light which may otherwise be distracting. I'll always remove it when in the dining car, but find no need to do so in a cafe car setting. If a sleeper is involved with the segment, the cap stays in a carry on, but is there as an option upon arrival.


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## rtabern (Nov 27, 2010)

Well, I see how everyone on here feels about ball caps... but how about Fez's??? Does that get its own ettiqute topic -- or is it considered a hat and should also not be allowed in the dining car?? WHOOZ??? :giggle:


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## Shanghai (Nov 27, 2010)

*With all of this discussion about hats, why is it acceptable (sometimes required) for*

*ladies to wear hats when and where men are not permitted to wear hats??*


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## Everydaymatters (Nov 28, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> *With all of this discussion about hats, why is it acceptable (sometimes required) for*
> 
> *ladies to wear hats when and where men are not permitted to wear hats??*


I don't understand that either. Not many women wear hats any more anyhow, but if they did, it would be acceptable anywhere. I don't get it.


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

Many of the folks in this 1905 Library of Congress photo are wearing hats.


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

More hats worn in a train's "buffet library car." Library of Congress photo, 1910-20.


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

Another LOC image, this time from the Long Island Rail Road. Couldn't see a date but seeing how women are acting as conductors, maybe World War II?


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

The VistaDome.com site has an old postcard showing passengers sitting down to eat in an Amtrak dining car. None of the passengers in this staged photo are wearing hats, although they're dressed up. I


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## cavanaugh (Nov 28, 2010)

It's not necessarily disrespectful to wear a hat indoors. I'm Jewish; we're taught to cover our heads as a sign of respect in public places. While I'm not consistent about following this, there's always a moment of discomfort when I am and find that other people are taking this as a sign of _disrespect_, rather than the reverse, as it's intended.


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

cavanaugh said:


> It's not necessarily disrespectful to wear a hat indoors. I'm Jewish; we're taught to cover our heads as a sign of respect in public places. While I'm not consistent about following this, there's always a moment of discomfort when I am and find that other people are taking this as a sign of _disrespect_, rather than the reverse, as it's intended.


I have a Jewish friend who's had the same experience. It's interesting how there are so many different customs and traditions involving headgear


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## NETrainfan (Nov 28, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> The VistaDome.com site has an old postcard showing passengers sitting down to eat in an Amtrak dining car. None of the passengers in this staged photo are wearing hats, although they're dressed up. I


Thanks for the great photos!

Fashion etiquette can be very interesting and of course-diverse.

For instance, the Amish wear their hats and bonnets most places. Does anyone know if the men remove their hats in the dining car?


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## lthanlon (Nov 28, 2010)

Interesting that you should mention the Amish. I see them (or Mennonites) often on Amtrak. There are a few Flickr images of them on the train or waiting in stations, but I didn't see any photos of men in the dining car.


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## jimhudson (Nov 28, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> Interesting that you should mention the Amish. I see them (or Mennonites) often on Amtrak. There are a few Flickr images of them on the train or waiting in stations, but I didn't see any photos of men in the dining car.


IINM the Amish dont eat in the diner, they either bring their food or eat from the cafe car. I have never seen Amish in any of the diners on the many,many trips I have taken through the years but have seen them eating in the lounges and cafe cars everytime there are Amish on the same trains I'm on.


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## pebbleworm (Nov 29, 2010)

Ive seen Amishmen in the diner, and (unusually) in a sleeper on the California Zephyr last month.


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## oldtimer (Nov 29, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> lthanlon said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting that you should mention the Amish. I see them (or Mennonites) often on Amtrak. There are a few Flickr images of them on the train or waiting in stations, but I didn't see any photos of men in the dining car.
> ...


My wife and I had a very delicious and interesting dinner on the EB with two Amish women in the diner. They were not accustomed to community seating. Once my wife broke the strange silence they were very talkative. They were part of a large group going to Whitefish for a wedding. Two charter buses awaited the group at the station.


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## sunchaser (Nov 29, 2010)

When we rode on the California Zephyr last year, there were some Amish families that did eat in the diner. The women & men all wore their bonnets/hats even the little ones.


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## Shawn Ryu (Nov 29, 2010)

I met an Amish man and his wife on the Empire Builder. Had a nice chat with them. They apparently publish magazines about gardening. Interesting people to say the least. Very nice people. The man had his hat on for like, 90% of the trip, from Montana, I think, all the way to Chicago.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 29, 2010)

I wouldn't be insulted by an Amish or Jewish rider still wearing their unique form of headgear inside. They have their own clothing that predates the standard etiquette rules the rest of us live by (or ignore).


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## roomette (Nov 29, 2010)

I've twice been seated in a Dining Car booth across from an Amish couple.


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## Big Iron (Nov 29, 2010)

cavanaugh said:


> It's not necessarily disrespectful to wear a hat indoors. I'm Jewish; we're taught to cover our heads as a sign of respect in public places. While I'm not consistent about following this, there's always a moment of discomfort when I am and find that other people are taking this as a sign of _disrespect_, rather than the reverse, as it's intended.


Don't let other people's ignorance bother you. It is their problem......not yours. Think about male Sikh Indians who never venture out into the public without a turban. They likely endure similar discomfort.


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## AG (Dec 17, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> *With all of this discussion about hats, why is it acceptable (sometimes required) for*
> 
> *ladies to wear hats when and where men are not permitted to wear hats??*


So angels won't seduce them. No seriously. It's in the New Testament, but I'm not going to take the time to look it up.

/yes, the reasons are silly, but if wearing/not wearing a hat indoors offends someone, why do it?


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## Gord (Dec 17, 2010)

gmcguire said:


> Hi everyone! So I have an atypical question that the folks from a bygone era may be best able to answer for me. Given my receding hairline, my scalp's susceptibility to sunburn, and a desire to change fashion trends, I have started wearing more formal hats (fedoras and the like). However, despite my searching of the internet, I don't have a clear idea of when I should wear my hat on the train. My general understanding is that in public places the hat should be on, in dwellings and restaurants the hat should be off. The presence of females seems to complicate things, with a general trend towards a general doffing of the hat. Given the indoorsy nature of the train, my understanding is that the hat should be off in the train, especially the dining car. However this is based on 40 year old etiquette.
> 
> My question to you guys/y'all/yinz: Have modern mores changed this dynamic? What do you think proper hatiquette is? Does it vary by hat style? Which car I'm in? Should I just not care?


Good manners never go out of style, it's the sign of a classy individual. Wearing a hat in the diner was considered to be discourteous and somewhat "trailer trashy". It still is by many of us over 50 types. Pre-Amtrak railroads required conductors, trainmen and other uniformed operating crew members to remove their hats while in or passing through, the diner. I notice many Amtrak conductors and assistants still observe this. To each their own, however.


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## Tygercat (Dec 18, 2010)

This isn't a real common reason, but my husband will wear some sort of brimmed hat pretty near everywhere these days, due to his eye condition. After his last operation (vitrectomy for a detached retina), he finds that light will literally "bounce around" inside the eye, and a hat brim is helpful to shade from overhead or bright lights. He mostly wears baseball hats, his favorite being from the B&O Museum  . He doesn't wear one at the table, and will take it off if necessary (like in Church), when that happens, I will guide him by the arm. He may also wear sunglasses indoors for the same reason. Ironically, before the operation he rarely wore a hat at all.


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