# Trip payment method



## denmarks (Sep 3, 2021)

Has Amtrak ever considered running their payment method like cruise lines? For example you only pay a down payment upon reservation and then the balance is due about 60-90 days before the trip. Once payment is made the cancelation penalty rises in steps.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 3, 2021)

Not to my knowledge. Although as of a couple of years ago you could make a reservation with an agent and hold it up to 7 days before paying, at least on long distance reservations made well in advance of departure. I don't know if they still do that, I didn't ask for it in making my most recent LD trip reservation.

Until just a few years ago you could cancel sleepers without penalty until either 7 or 14 days before departure (I misremember the exact period). When they started penalties, they applied only a 10% penalty for a cash refund, but you could get the entire value in a voucher. The 25% penalty without the 100% voucher option is a pretty new thing.

Cancellation penalties are relatively new at Amtrak.

In general, in moving towards penalties they appear to following a softer version of the airline model, not a cruise line model.


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## bratkinson (Sep 7, 2021)

If I recall, cancellation penalties were one of the 'new deals' from Anderson, when he took the reigns a few years ago. It was 'easy money', just like the airlines do.

As Zephyr17 noted, back in the pre-online booking days, one would call 1-800-USA-RAIL number and make reservations. They'd take your credit card number and mail the tickets, if desired. Or, you could trek to your friendly nearby Amtrak station agent and get the tickets there. I think a hold of 7 days was the maximum before your reservation got cancelled.

Part of the reason for the short 'hold' was the extremely limited number of bedrooms and roomettes on a train. Two 10-6 Heritage fleet sleepers were 32 rooms. Two Viewliner Is are only 30 rooms. Contrast that to a cruise ship that has over 1000 rooms (so I'm told). If they have a cancellation a week before sailing, they'll not likely sell that room. So, at worst, they've lost 0.1% of their revenue for that cruise. Lose 1 room of revenue out of 30, you've lost 3-5% of the sleeper revenue (depending on accomodation) for that train.

Note, too, that from what I've read here and there, at least for NEC trains, most of the sales are within 2 weeks or so of travel. Yes, many vacationers will book their rooms as far in advance as possible. But in 'sort of' watching the fares jump around for sleepers, pre-covid, at 5-6 weeks out was when they'd sometimes drop the price to sell more rooms. To me, that indicated they hadn't sold 'enough' according to their pricing algorithms. And pre-covid, at least, there was frequently more than a few that would make their reservations less than 14 days in advance. 

With 50 years history under their belt, and especially the last 10-15 years with more detailed data (massive 'big data' data bases, etc) and improved statistical analysis methodologies, I'd guess they have it down to almost scientific levels figuring the probabilities of room sales 1 week, 2 weeks, etc in advance of travel. Certainly there's been a couple of former Las Vegas 'odds makers' there to show them how to do it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> In general, in moving towards penalties they appear to following a softer version of the airline model, not a cruise line model.





bratkinson said:


> If I recall, cancellation penalties were one of the 'new deals' from Anderson, when he took the reigns a few years ago. It was 'easy money', just like the airlines do.


Except that US airlines now provide full credits with no extra fees from cancellations (on all but the cheapest tickets) unlike on Amtrak.


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