# Metrolink Service to San Diego Contemplated



## CHamilton (Oct 25, 2012)

Metrolink Service to San Diego Contemplated



> ...for weekdays, they are looking at a commuter schedule starting mornings in downtown San Diego while making all stops to Los Angeles; in addition, they’ll be doing the reverse for the afternoon commute along with southbound service from Fullerton to San Diego in the morning and returning in the evening.
> 
> Weekend service would start in San Bernardino on the IEOC line to San Diego making all stops (reverse service included) along with service starting in Los Angeles on the Orange County line to San Diego making all stops (reverse service included) .


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## johnny.menhennet (Oct 25, 2012)

This will eat up HUGE amounts of Surfliner market share, and it will make weekend trains to Solana during the summer so much easier for the races (biggest problem - no place to store sets). Serves Caltrans right for setting up the prices the way they are. $41 for me to got to VNC on a holiday weekend is unacceptable, and frankly higher than the cost of gas, even at $5.50 like it was a few weeks ago. I love that the board is looking at increased service on the 91 Line though during peak periods. I think it is really important. Right now, Riverside has two lines on weekdays to Downtown LA. The Riverside Line does fairly well at getting people toward Downtown, but the 91 Line is really not very helpful to commuters. IIRC, there are 2 peak hour services inbound. Not too conducive to commuters. With the ongoing work on the extension to Perris, I think it's good to have more choice for commuters on the existing line as well. If I could ask for 1 Metrolink service enhancement, it would DEFINITELY be weekend service on the Ventura County Line. Much like in the summer, Metrolink has the weekend trains stop at San Clemente pier for beachgoers, I wish they would offer a service that went for the day to the Ventura Pier. It's less crowded, a bigger beach, and not as far away or requiring transfers. Even if it was 1 roundtrip I see it being popular, and patronized by me when I'm visiting LA! The Valley's no fun when it's 110!


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## sechs (Oct 25, 2012)

This sounds a lot like through equipment and coordinated schedules. If warranted by ridership, this is a good thing.


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## thully (Oct 25, 2012)

This is an interesting idea - essentially, it sounds like the plan would have Metrolink operate the train LAX-OSD and NCTD operate it OSD-SAN. Essentially, it would be a Coaster train between SAN-OSD and a Metrolink train OSD-LAX/SNB, and may just take the place of an existing Metrolink and Coaster train on the schedule.

if they did do this, it would definitely take customers from Amtrak - being that it sounds like the fares would be essentially a Metrolink fare+a Coaster fare, we'd be looking at about half the cost of the Surfliner. If that were to happen, it may make sense for Amtrak to cut down on the number of Surfliners and specialize in express service and service to points north of LAX. Maybe even use the extra equipment to run a couple Surfliners per day all the way to SF/Oakland (a la Coast Daylight), though that would require the cooperation of UP...

I'd definitely appreciate this if they did it - would be nice to have a less expensive train option for getting to LA (and be able to use any Coaster station to get there). Would also like it if Amtrak had more express service and/or trips that went all the way to the Bay Area (though the latter may be wishful thinking).


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## Trogdor (Oct 26, 2012)

thully said:


> This is an interesting idea - essentially, it sounds like the plan would have Metrolink operate the train LAX-OSD and NCTD operate it OSD-SAN. Essentially, it would be a Coaster train between SAN-OSD and a Metrolink train OSD-LAX/SNB, and may just take the place of an existing Metrolink and Coaster train on the schedule.
> 
> if they did do this, it would definitely take customers from Amtrak - being that it sounds like the fares would be essentially a Metrolink fare+a Coaster fare, we'd be looking at about half the cost of the Surfliner. If that were to happen, it may make sense for Amtrak to cut down on the number of Surfliners and specialize in express service and service to points north of LAX. Maybe even use the extra equipment to run a couple Surfliners per day all the way to SF/Oakland (a la Coast Daylight), though that would require the cooperation of UP...
> 
> I'd definitely appreciate this if they did it - would be nice to have a less expensive train option for getting to LA (and be able to use any Coaster station to get there). Would also like it if Amtrak had more express service and/or trips that went all the way to the Bay Area (though the latter may be wishful thinking).


I disagree with this assessment for several reasons.

First, the northbound weekday trains being considered are really early morning trains, which are before Amtrak even runs. They would cater more to commuters than to casual single-ride passengers. This would essentially be a new market, because right now commuters from south of Oceanside can't take the train to LA and get there before 9 am. So those would be passengers Amtrak isn't serving anyway.

Second, a ton of riders continue to choose Amtrak over Metrolink for lots of shorter-distance trips. Not everybody is going to San Diego. I don't have the numbers offhand, but the number of riders that only go to SNC or OSD is pretty big. Heck, some only ride to FUL. Amtrak fares are more expensive than Metrolink, so by that measure, Metrolink should have the market to themselves, but they don't.

Third, with rail-to-rail, a ton of passengers are already buying Metrolink tickets and then choosing to ride Amtrak, for the better equipment.

Fourth, Caltrans absolutely will not give up slots on the Surfliner corridor. They would not want to cut service. Nor would the LOSSAN JPA when they take over.

Fifth, the "express" service loses ridership and revenue vs. making the extra few stops. The couple of minutes saved doesn't attract enough extra riders to make up for the loss in business from the intermediate points. Amtrak and Caltrans both knew this, and past experience (San Diego Metroliners) showed it. Further, as long as you still have significant amounts of single track in San Diego County, plus a congested railroad north of the County Line, you're still going to have to sit and wait for meets. The only reason the current "express" operates is because some two-bit politician from Anaheim forced it on the corridor (and he's also the reason the train stops at Anaheim, which makes no sense, and not Fullerton, which would have made sense if the train made sense at all, which it doesn't). The express will go away soon enough, and that will (hopefully) be the end of that folly until a railroad is built that can actually accommodate express trains. For expresses to work, you need frequency so you're not sacrificing ridership at stops that are skipped. In order for that to work, you need capacity for expresses to pass locals. The SAN-LAX corridor has neither right now.


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## Anderson (Oct 27, 2012)

Somehow, I think you're both right. On the one hand, you'd have this running as "the local" on this route. That's good, though it'll eat up Amtrak share to a very limited extent.

On the other hand, I think you'll get some "Clocker-style" spillover onto the Surfliners (folks looking to upgrade for a ride home) as well as folks who take one train in and then miss the train home. Mind you, I think you might get some "semi-express" services (where Amtrak trains operating near "Coasterlink" times drop a few stops), but that's all you're likely to get unless the Coasterlink services start running all day.


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