# Bad Behavior



## HenryK (Sep 16, 2015)

What can airline passengers do about bad behavior aloft? the following article asks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/travel/public-urination-airplane-jetblue.html?mabReward=CTM&moduleDetail=recommendations-2&action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East&region=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article

The answer? Not much. Options are severely limited at 30,000 feet.

Now: What can Amtrak passengers do about bad behavior at track level?

Discuss.


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## PerRock (Sep 16, 2015)

Contact the conductor. If really needed some passengers and/or staff can 'detain' a person until needed. The conductor can organize the train to stop at a railroad crossing & be met by local LEOs.

(I didn't read the article) but in extreme situations an airplane can be re-routed to the nearest capable airport and again be met by local LEOs who will remove the disruptive person.

Of course that's all for the extreme cases. Depending on the disruption it might be better for you to move to a different area (car) or politely ask the person to stop.

Essentially it's the same on the plane, but the person who makes the call is the conductor & it's easier to stop and let LEOs deal with it.

peter

Edit: Forgot to mention in _very extreme_ cases there is an emergency brake you can activate in every car. On the Horizons & Amfleets they're located at the ends of the cars, and are a red handle on a chain you pull down. I don't remember where they are on Superliners, Acelas & Cascades; but the Safety Card in your seat-back pocket will tell you. Even metro & commuter trains have these.


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## jis (Sep 16, 2015)

Fortunately there are no emergency brakes on planes


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 16, 2015)

jis said:


> Fortunately there are no emergency brakes on planes


I'm tempted to mention a thrust reverser as the aeronautical equivalent, but unless you're on the ground the secondary result of deploying such a device in flight is likely to be a _increase_ in speed. h34r:


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## jis (Sep 16, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Fortunately there are no emergency brakes on planes
> ...


Indeed! And fortunately on many modern aircraft types they cannot be deployed in flights since they are interlocked with weight sensor in the landing gears. This interlock actually cause one overrun of a runway, when the weight sensor failed on all main gears thus preventing the pilot from deploying the thrust reversers, and there was no way to override the failure. Airbus fixed that problem after that incident.


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## FormerOBS (Sep 16, 2015)

I suppose it would be worth mentioning that on a train an emergency brake application is very serious business. It can do serious harm. I understand it is a Federal Offense for an unauthorized person to pull the emergency brake lever. Not being a lawyer, I can't be more specific than that. The conductor will know whether it's appropriate, so let him/her do it.

Railroads routinely eject unruly passengers enroute. Maybe the airlines should consider that option. :giggle:

Tom


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 16, 2015)

Yep, just load some parachutes on the plane, and when people act up just push em out!

Will save re-routing the plane for an emergency landing and get everyone to their destinations easier! LOL


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## FormerOBS (Sep 16, 2015)

I suggest the parachutes may be an unnecessary expense. Just my humble opinion.

Better yet, make the ejected passenger pay for his 'chute, just like they make you pay for luggage.

Tom


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## BCL (Sep 16, 2015)

FormerOBS said:


> I suppose it would be worth mentioning that on a train an emergency brake application is very serious business. It can do serious harm. I understand it is a Federal Offense for an unauthorized person to pull the emergency brake lever. Not being a lawyer, I can't be more specific than that. The conductor will know whether it's appropriate, so let him/her do it.


Exactly - why would anyone want to perform an emergency stop just for an unruly passenger? I would think that in that case the crew would probably want to get to the closest station and then take care of the situation there.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 16, 2015)

> We asked Gary Leff, co-founder of Milepoint.com, a frequent flier discussion site, to weigh in. The following are edited excerpts from a conversation with Mr. Leff.


Gary Leff has a good track record with regard to the ever changing minutia of points earning strategies. However, Gary Leff also has a long history of heavy libertarian bias. His "sucks to be you, nobody owes you anything" answers are of questionable legitimacy and dubious value here in the real world.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 16, 2015)

Bad behavior happens on all modes of transportation. Trust and defend yourself, and respond to it depending on the specific situation.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 16, 2015)

Jet Blue Yellow? 

:giggle:


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## PerRock (Sep 16, 2015)

BCL said:


> FormerOBS said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose it would be worth mentioning that on a train an emergency brake application is very serious business. It can do serious harm. I understand it is a Federal Offense for an unauthorized person to pull the emergency brake lever. Not being a lawyer, I can't be more specific than that. The conductor will know whether it's appropriate, so let him/her do it.
> ...


Depends on what the unruly passenger is doing. If he's just drunk, ya you can probably wait til the nearest town, crossing, station. Say they unruly passenger has a weapon of some sort, do you want the train continuing? doubtful.

peter


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## Steve4031 (Sep 16, 2015)

On the train let the conductor know. It's that simple. I've notified one conductor of a drunk passenger in business class because he was using profanity and talking loudly. The crew handled it professionally.

In another incident involving an African American lady that I had just met, the same advice worked. She had little knowledge of train travel, and texted me about how to manage a situation where a passenger was drunk and bothering her. I texted back that she should find the car attendant and ask to be moved. If that didn't work, ask for the conductor. She followed my advice and got moved. The guy continued to be disruptive and got put off.

Even though I know a lot about trains I would never open a door, or touch anything that is off limits too passengers unless asked to do so by a crew member.


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## DryCreek (Sep 16, 2015)

The upper half of the dutch door (the conductors window) is pretty easy to open. The movie titled "Throw Momma From The Train" brings up an idea or two........


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## FormerOBS (Sep 16, 2015)

PerRock said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > FormerOBS said:
> ...


I would want the train to continue ASAP to a location where professional law enforcement agencies can be brought in to deal with the situation. I believe I said "an emergency brake application is very serious business." That was not a flippant comment. It uses the brake equipment in the most extreme, violent way to get the train stopped in the very shortest distance. Once the application is initiated, it cannot be rescinded. The train WILL stop. Then the conductor will be unable to get the train going again until an inspection of the running gear is made, and the train line recharged with air. If there is a serious altercation aboard, do you really want the conductor to be inspecting the OUTSIDE of the train when the altercation is INSIDE?

To the moderators: I understand the reason for moving this thread. However, the conversation has moved away from air travel and is now very much focused on rail travel. Perhaps it should be moved back.

Tom


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## Mystic River Dragon (Sep 17, 2015)

I would always look for a conductor. They will know the correct procedure to follow for whatever the situation is.

I did inform a conductor of some bad behavior once, but it was on NJT, not Amtrak. I was in the Quiet Car of the double-decker train coming home from work, when one man started talking loudly on a cell phone. Another man told him it was the Quiet Car, and they starting shouting at each other. So I went to look for a conductor before it could turn into something worse. The conductor looked exhausted--she was an older lady and had probably been on her feet much of the time dealing with the commuter crowd from NYC. She looked like she just wanted to go home and rest. I hated to bother her, but also didn't want a fight to break out on the train.

So I told her about the two men shouting in the Quiet Car. Her eyes lit up, she rubbed her hands together, and she charged into that Quiet Car with all the pent-up energy of someone who has just been waiting for a chance to let someone have an earful!


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## railiner (Sep 17, 2015)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> , when one man started talking loudly on a cell phone.


I hate when that happens....

Sometimes I wish I had some kind of device that would quietly jam the cell signal, and prevent the offender's from using their phone.....


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## Peter KG6LSE (Sep 18, 2015)

railiner said:


> Mystic River Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > , when one man started talking loudly on a cell phone.
> ...


keep dreaming . the FCC is very active against jammers this year .


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 18, 2015)

So far as I am aware the FCC has been going after large hotels that jammed cellular signals in order to force their customers to use paid in-house network services. In the case of large conventions the charges for IT services can be surprisingly expensive. A single person jamming the area immediately proximate to a quiet car on a random train is unlikely to be discovered. On the other hand if they built something strong enough to jam a whole train which they rode on a regular basis I think they'd get tripped up eventually.


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## JayPea (Sep 18, 2015)

A passenger on the TE I was on last night found out the hard way what happens when they display bad behavior. He had been smoking in the bathroom and was caught. He was escorted off the train , in the arms of law enforcement, somewhere in the wilderness of Arizona between Tucson and Maricopa. I think he might be rethinking his decision to break federal law.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 18, 2015)

There is a conductor on that run who the OBS have nicknamed "The Hook" because he almost always kicks at least one passenger off for bad behavior when he is working. I wish there were more like him.


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## alan_s (Sep 18, 2015)

Add a brig compartment next to the guard's compartment, to hold the unruly until the next scheduled stop.


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## BCL (Sep 18, 2015)

JayPea said:


> A passenger on the TE I was on last night found out the hard way what happens when they display bad behavior. He had been smoking in the bathroom and was caught. He was escorted off the train , in the arms of law enforcement, somewhere in the wilderness of Arizona between Tucson and Maricopa. I think he might be rethinking his decision to break federal law.


I don't think that's specifically breaking federal law. It's a violation of Amtrak policy. And calling law enforcement is also Amtrak policy when someone is put off a train where there's no staffed station.


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## JayPea (Sep 18, 2015)

BCL said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > A passenger on the TE I was on last night found out the hard way what happens when they display bad behavior. He had been smoking in the bathroom and was caught. He was escorted off the train , in the arms of law enforcement, somewhere in the wilderness of Arizona between Tucson and Maricopa. I think he might be rethinking his decision to break federal law.
> ...


Maybe not, though when going through their spiel about smoking they specifically said it was a violation of federal law.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 18, 2015)

Not much between Tucson and Maricopa, wonder if he spent the night in the crossbar hotel?

Or if the cops just put him out to hitchhike since there's no public transportation around Maricopa and the Sunset only runs three days week?


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 19, 2015)

As one LSA on a SWC I rode liked announcing: "If you are caught smoking on board you will be kicked off the train. Amtrak policy says we must drop you off in a populated location, but it doesn't specify what it must be populated with!"


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