# 20 Hours in Japan



## Long Train Runnin' (May 29, 2014)

I have a trip this upcoming August to the far east. I built my flight connections in such a way that I have a 20 hour layover in Japan with the idea being it would give me a chance to experience some of the high speed rail the country has to offer. I would also like to work in a ride on the Tokyo Metro so I could say I've ridden on the top 5 busiest subway systems in the world. I am arriving around 9pm at HND and leaving at 5pm the next day from NRT.

Basically does anyone have any recommendations on which subway lines are the most interesting, and which HSR lines are the most interesting.

Thanks for the help.


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## xyzzy (May 29, 2014)

Nothing great about the Tokyo subway; it's just like any other. Your first objective is to ride the Yamanote line (it's not the same as the subway) all the way around its circle, roughly 20 miles. Your second objective is to ride the Yurikamome across the Rainbow Bridge to Odaiba. Do those at night. Then the next day, if you can afford it, catch a Nozomi or a regular Shinkansen to somewhere and then double back. Just be mindful of the time. If your flight from NRT leaves at 1700, you had better get to NRT by 1500 or worst-case 1530. It can easily take 2 hours to get to NRT by bus over the highway. The NEX (Narita Express) train is faster and gives you more train-riding, but it's more expensive.


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 29, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not really worried about the costs I built in this layover on purpose with one thought in mind and that was to get some more high speed rail under my belt. I broke away from the rest of my traveling party simply to get the experience. It appears that I will be over in that part of the world a couple times a year for the next few years, so I am mixing up my routings and layovers to take advantage of being out that way might as well visit new countries, and after experiencing Chinese HSR I wanted to see what the rest of the region had on offer. The ride on the Tokyo subway system is more symbolic since it allows me to hit the last one on the top 5. It sounds odd, but when I was around 6 or 7 years old I believe I was in an exhibit in the Boston Children's museum that featured a display about the Tokyo subway system and I remember seeing a metallic silver colored line on the map, and oddly enough that memory is still bouncing around in my brain so I'm going to try and ride at least a piece of it to satisfy some subconscious desire I obviously have toward it.

I will have to look further into the Yamanote line and the Yurikamome line. I had planned on taking the NEX line to the airport for my return flight. 

I admit I need to study the time tables further, but would a turn in Hiroshima be possible? I'm really not to concerned with getting much sleep since I will have a 14 hour flight at the tail end of all this.


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## Dennis (May 29, 2014)

A very unique ride is the Shonan Monorail. It is is easy to get to by train from Tokyo.

Per http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/hiroshi/eno/shonan.htm

"Shonan Monorail is a suspended monorail system, legally an electrified railway that connects between JR Ofuna station, 48 km from Tokyo on the Tokaido main line, and Shonan Enoshima. Its 6.6km route mostly runs along the ridge stretching through the western suburban area of Kamakura." The mountains are spectacular. IIRC, "Headlights" (Electric RR Association) had an article on it several years ago.

We rode it in '96 and visited several temples in Kamakura and Kita-Kamakura, and also visited. the [SIZE=12pt]Great Buddha (Daibutsu)[/SIZE]


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## Anderson (May 29, 2014)

You've probably got time to take your pick of the JR East lines (none of which take more than about three hours end to end) as long as you leave early. Even going with the Tohoku line (up to Aomori), if you catch a morning train (0600 or so), you'd be up there by about 0900 and back in Tokyo by 1300 or 1400.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 29, 2014)

I’ve visited Japan over the span of a couple days but never as short as twenty hours. Back then HND was mainly a domestic airport with a handful of regional flights and NRT had most of the international flights. Now that Asia is chock full of modern mega-sized airports I guess nobody seems to care about tired old Narita anymore. In any case I would stow your stuff and start with the subways and metros right away. They used to wrap up services around midnight and I believe that’s still the case today. Taxis are plentiful but expensive in Japan so try to avoid ending up where you don’t want to be when the public transit begins to shut down. I had taxi fares that easily nudged ¥10,000 ($100) for what seemed like a fairly quick trip so plan accordingly. Although Japan has lots of interesting lines I'd probably focus on a route with early and frequent service for the long distance run. Perhaps you could take an early trip from Tokyo Station to Kyoto and back the following morning. Due to your late arrival Hiroshima probably isn’t in the cards unless you’re on an airfare ticket that can be changed without penalty. According to my memory the 500 and 300 series sets are all retired which only leaves the 700 and N700 series. I believe all Nozomi runs are scheduled to use N700 but the other services could be either. On your way to NRT the NEX can be a decent value if you’re using a rail pass that already includes it. Otherwise it’s rather overpriced and often fairly empty. If it were me I would probably choose the fast and economical Skyliner instead. Both of those options would outperform the slow and meandering airport bus. Hope that helps. Either way you're making me *envious*.


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## caravanman (May 30, 2014)

Never been to Japan, but it is high on my wish list. I seem to remember reading that you can save a good amount of cash by buying rail passes etc online, before you arrive. You may not be too concerned about costs, but if you can buy the same product for a lower price, it may be worth looking into?

Have a great trip!

Ed.


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## George Harris (Jun 1, 2014)

Get the Lonely Planet guidebook and plot out what you want to do before you get there. Generally they are very good in having the details you need for on your own travel. Check out passes. You may, likely have to get the passes before you go. Read the restrictions carefully. Clearly understand that, except for a few night trains where ever you are at midnight you will be there until early morning. Generally, there will be a hotel right at or very near any given railroad station. There will likely be a board on the wall with information about nearby facilities, and it will be in both Japanese and English. Japanese trains usually are on time to the minute. Don't worry about close connections.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I do need to do some more research on rail passes I've only seen a couple that are multiday which really don't help to much. I guess I need to nail down a more firm itinerary then price it out versus a multiday pass. I do think I will stay at the hotel inside of the Tokyo Central station. Since the monorail interfaces the Yamanote line and I could take the longer way to Central Station check into my hotel, and then go out and ride a subway line or two. I'm still looking at the different routes for a morning ride out of Tokyo. Then return grab my stuff from the hotel and take the express train to the airport. Thank you all for the suggestions so far.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 6, 2014)

As I love to wait until the last minute before booking just about everything except flights I have finally nailed down trip. I booked a hotel that is inside of the central train station which will make everything easier I believe. Although I guess part of me feels like if I end up spending most of the time in airports and train stations I fear that I will miss getting a taste of their true culture. I will be riding the monorail from the airport to the Yamanote line line which will put in the central train station. Then from there I will ride an additional subway somewhere I haven't quite nailed that down yet. I guess my one other question would be are "pushers" still a real thing on the Tokyo subways and where could they be seen? The crazy packed subway trains don't really scare me to much I can't imagine it being worse then the experiences I had in Beijing and Shanghai where I was seriously wondering how you even got off the train :lol: . After that I will probably stroll around the train station and surrounding area before calling it a night. Then first thing in the morning I am planning on taking the Nagano Shinkansen end to end. Returning to my hotel checking out and then taking the Narita Express to the airport and heading back stateside. Thank you guys for all the help, this thread helped me tremendously in putting all of this together.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 6, 2014)

Because the Shinkansen trains are so fast, I would find myself the most scenic route out of Tokyo, and ride it in a one-day trip. I've heard good things about the Tohoku Shinkansen.

Edit: Or you could also ride a classic Japanese train like the KiHa 40/48, and I'm sure the slow routes would be more scenic too.


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## VentureForth (Aug 7, 2014)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> As I love to wait until the last minute before booking just about everything except flights I have finally nailed down trip. I booked a hotel that is inside of the central train station which will make everything easier I believe. Although I guess part of me feels like if I end up spending most of the time in airports and train stations I fear that I will miss getting a taste of their true culture. I will be riding the monorail from the airport to the Yamanote line line which will put in the central train station. Then from there I will ride an additional subway somewhere I haven't quite nailed that down yet. I guess my one other question would be are "pushers" still a real thing on the Tokyo subways and where could they be seen? The crazy packed subway trains don't really scare me to much I can't imagine it being worse then the experiences I had in Beijing and Shanghai where I was seriously wondering how you even got off the train :lol: . After that I will probably stroll around the train station and surrounding area before calling it a night. Then first thing in the morning I am planning on taking the Nagano Shinkansen end to end. Returning to my hotel checking out and then taking the Narita Express to the airport and heading back stateside. Thank you guys for all the help, this thread helped me tremendously in putting all of this together.


Wow - I'm so SO SOOOO SORRY I missed this thread! I lived there for 18 years and would love to participate.

So... Let's see what you have here.

As for arriving - what airport are you arriving into then flying out of? If you are flying into Haneda, then the Monorail is the way to go. If it is Narita, then I would suggest the N'ex (JR Narita Express). The Keisei Skyliner is a bit cheaper, a bit slower, and goes into Nippori on the Yamanote line. It is not JR, so there will be a ticket change from Keisei to JR.

One of the issues that you may run into is travelling between various train companies. JR East and JR Central are by far the most modern and efficient, albeit most expensive trains in Tokyo.

The Tokyo Metro is all but three of the subways in Tokyo. You can go to http://www.tokyometro.jp/en/ticket/value/1day/ and read up on the 1-day free pass for 710 yen ($7). If you are really ambitious and think you can ride $80 worth in 20 hours, you can buy http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2361_06.html the 3-day Kanto area pass.

The JR Pass for foreigners isn't going to get you far in 20 hours as it is intended for 7 days.

Anyway, back to an itinerary:

From Haneda Airport, you can hop the monorail to Hamamatsucho station. Then, I would recommend riding the Yamanote line all the way around. Maybe get off at Shinjuku - the busiest station in the world. If there are pushers any more, they would be there around 7 AM.

Tokyo Station (also on the Yamanote line, but on the opposite side) is the terminus for all the Shinkansen. You can try going North on either the Tohoku, Joestu, or Nagano Shinkansens. They are part of the Kanto area pass. The trip to the West on JR Central (Tokaido Shinkansen) is the original HSR. It's NOT included in the Kanto pass. I don't think that in the time you have you'll reach max speed on ANY of the bullet trains out of Tokyo. The Nagano Shinkansen would go through the mountains of Central Japan and is very beautiful scenery.

I also recommend the Chuo line. It is the local commuter line I rode to school every day. It's the orange colored one that leaves from track 1 at Tokyo Station and cuts straight through the middle of the city on its way out West. Note: At Tokyo Station, there are several Track "1"s. Be sure to ask. The Keio line starts from a different track "1", 7 floors underground and goes out to Maihama where Tokyo Disneyland is.

As for Metros, you may want to try the Marunouchi or Ginza lines. These are the oldest and perhaps the most modern in the system. They are the only two that are standard gauge. The rest (including above ground trains except the Shinakansen) are narrow gauge. They are also the only third rail lines rather than overhead catenary. The Marunouchi can be boarded at Tokyo or Shinjuku conveniently (though a good walk). The Marunouchi also has a bit of fun in that it jumps out of the ground, crosses the Ochanomizu river near Yotsuya, and goes back underground. The Ginza can be boarded in Ueno or Shibuya. Shibuya is a fun place to visit with their busiest pedestrian crossing in the world. The Ginza actually boards above ground on the 2nd floor of Shibuya.

The most important website you can have handy is www.hyperdia.com/en - They may even have an android app. But it doesn't load data onto your phone. There are plenty of hotspots in stations in Tokyo. At least there were in 2005... The website gives you fares, schedules, etc., between any two train stations in Japan. It could be a life saver!

As previously mentioned, the trains don't run all night. The last Yamanote line leaves Tokyo at around 00:26 and goes out of service at Osaki at 01:15. The first in the morning at Tokyo station is 04:44. So almost 3 1/2 hours that you could be stuck. Check into a capsule hotel. 

Please PM me if you have any specific questions!!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 7, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> If it is Narita, then I would suggest the N'ex (JR Narita Express).


The Keisei Skyliner is newer, faster, and cheaper. The main thing I remember about the N'ex is that it's expensive and mostly empty. The only way I can reconcile the number of N'ex recommendations I've heard with the actual passenger loads is if the folks recommending it don't actually travel on it.









VentureForth said:


> One of the issues that you may run into is travelling between various train companies. JR East and JR Central are by far the most modern and efficient, albeit most expensive trains in Tokyo.


My memory is that shinkansen tickets were no worse than what many Americans are familiar with spending on airline flights with similar cost structures and restrictions. The foreigner rail passes can make train travel relatively cheap and easy by removing most of the hassles and restrictions by virtue of their unlimited ticketing. Although this won't help the OP it's probably the best advice for travelers to Japan who are intending to travel by rail and are spending more than a day or two.



VentureForth said:


> I would recommend riding the Yamanote line all the way around. Maybe get off at Shinjuku - the busiest station in the world. If there are pushers any more, they would be there around 7 AM.


Yamanote and Shinjuku are good suggestions but I'd be hard pressed to understand why anyone would want to experience being pushed into an aluminum can like a bunch of sardines. Maybe it's just to take a picture from the platform or something but if it were me I'd keep my distance.



VentureForth said:


> Note: At Tokyo Station, there are several Track "1"s. Be sure to ask. The Keio line starts from a different track "1", 7 floors underground and goes out to Maihama where Tokyo Disneyland is.


I would second the recommendation to ask for help and add a suggestion to arrive well before departure. Tokyo Station is unlike anything folks will have seen in the US. There are many possible directions to go and many possible tracks to search. If you're not sure what you're doing it can be easy to get confused and miss your train. If you had an appropriate rail pass you could simply request a new ticket on the next train but if you're buying conventional tickets they don't typically transfer to other trains. Or at least they didn't when I was there. Japanese staff generally have some English knowledge but keep in mind that Japanese schooling focuses on written English more than spoken dialog. When details matter I would suggest writing down your question to be sure it's understood properly.


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## VentureForth (Aug 7, 2014)

The biggest issue with the Japan Rail Pass is that it's about $275. That's a bit much for 20 hours. Even when I went the last time with a round trip on the Shinkansen, it wouldn't have paid for itself. I even took the Nozomi (exempt from the pass) and came out cheaper.

The Kanto Area pass (available for purchase at Haneda and Narita) seems to be a good deal. There used to be a pass for both JR AND the Subways but I can't find it.



Devil's Advocate said:


> The Keisei Skyliner is newer, faster, and cheaper. The main thing I remember about the N'ex is that it's expensive and mostly empty. The only way I can reconcile the number of N'ex recommendations I've heard with the actual passenger loads is if the folks recommending it don't actually travel on it.


Keisei Skyliner vs JR's Narita Express is a toss up. It would be a Top Gear race, both taking 58 minutes from Narita Terminal 1 to Tokyo Station. Keisei requires a transfer in Ueno or Nippori. N'Ex is direct. JR is $6 more, but with the area pass it is included whereas the Keisei isn't. Depends on where you want to go. I've always preferred JR rolling stock over the 2nd Tier trainlines (Keiyo, Keisei, Tobu, Seibu, etc). But that's just me. Funny story about how crowded it can get... My wife boarded and sat in a seat. I told her I was going to go use the phone. She didn't know that the phone was on the train. When I got back to my seat, it was after Terminal 2, where every seat was sold and I found out my wife didn't know we had reserved seats. Meanwhile she was panicking that I left her on the train with her mother and our kids.  

HERE IT IS. It's all the different passes you can buy. Details are a link away on the Tokyo Tour Ticket for only 1,590 yen. Doesn't cover shinkansen or transport to and from the airport, but it's only $16 and covers 80% of trains and subways in the Tokyo area - and you can get almost a 50% discount on the N'Ex.



Devil's Advocate said:


> If you had an appropriate rail pass you could simply request a new ticket on the next train but if you're buying conventional tickets they don't typically transfer to other trains. Or at least they didn't when I was there. Japanese staff generally have some English knowledge but keep in mind that Japanese schooling focuses on written English more than spoken dialog. When details matter I would suggest writing down your question to be sure it's understood properly.


As a point of clarification - that is only required for long distance trains, which are just about anything with only one or two sets of doors on each car. Everything else is an open ticket.

This just in... Keisei is marketing like mad with a new Subway/Skyliner combo ticket. Allows access to all subways and the Skyliner round trip in one day for 4,700 yen.

That's about the price of the discounted for visitors only N'Ex ticket RT (3,000 yen) plus the Tokyo Tour Ticket (1,590), but with the JR version, you get all the JR trains AND the subways.

Either way, it's under $50 and I'm envious, too!


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 7, 2014)

Wow thank you guys for all of this information. Yes I am coming in to Haneda from Hanoi. I was able to work this layover out thanks to United's under 24 rule, so it was really all the time I could buy myself. I would love to spend a couple of days in Japan and really take in a lot more, but then its no longer a "free" stopover. I am leaving out of NRT so I think the JR express Narita express will be the best bet since I am staying at the train station that it leaves from. 

​I'm not to sure what to expect I'm just hoping that my experiences in Korea and China will be similar enough that I will be able to navigate around all of these stations without any issues. How are transfers? One great thing about the Beijing system were the colored arrows on the floor that guided you through the stations or is it more New York style where you need to be mindful of all the overhead signs.

I guess my final question is how receptive would the average passenger be to assisting me? In China I had no problem approaching just about anyone on a subway platform and they were very receptive to helping me get on the right trains. (And they all spoke decent enough English) Or is it more like New York where starting a conversation with a stranger on a subway platform feels almost taboo?


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## VentureForth (Aug 7, 2014)

There's a ton out there, and I've been editing like crazy, so go look back! 

BTW, Tokyo Station Hotel, if that's where you are staying is a relic of WWII located across from the Imperial Palace - one of the few parts of Tokyo that wasn't bombed out of existence.

Unlike China, there are multiple train operators in Tokyo. The most relevant will be JR and the subways. Most of the trains on JR are color coded. Be sure to get a subway map in English. They have a color/station # code to help understand it, but I find it confusing. This is new since I lived there. The subways each have their own color and letter ID (so does JR - Make sure you're looking at the right map!!). Each station has a number, but could be a different one for each subwa. So, for example, Shinjuku Station is M08 on the Marunouchi line, E01 AND E21 on the Oedo line and S01 on the Shinjuku line.

On JR, you can actually board with fare to the next stop and ride around all day - so long as you don't try to change companies (ie: to subway) and don't try to exit the station until you are done and you exit at the next stop from where you started.

Japanese are very reserved and most don't want to help. However, if you find a younger couple or gently ask with a bowing "su mee maa sen" they will generally be happy to try their English on you. Most will try to be polite then act like they don't have a clue what you are asking. Then just say thank you and go to someone else.

MOST stations have a green window with a seat logo for an icon. This is where you should try to find assistance, though these are station managers and can be helpful but a bit gruff.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 7, 2014)

How does the Kensei Skyliner at 160 km/h exceed the speed of a bullet train, I'm assuming the Shinkansen trains? I thought the Shinkansen trains were cleared for 300 km/h.


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## VentureForth (Aug 7, 2014)

It doesn't. See the fine print on the image right under 160 km/h: (*Excluding the bullet train)

A word about the Shinkansen. The fastest portion of the Shinkansen is around Osaka. This is pretty far from Tokyo and not included in the Kanto pass.

The Nagano Shinkansen is covered by the $80 pass up to Sasu-Daira. You can make the one way trip in as little as 71 minutes with an average speed of 86.8 MPH (139 KPH).

The Joestu Shinkansen is covered by the pass up to Jomo-Kogen. You can make the one way trip in 79 minutes with an average speed of 71.9 MPH (115 KPH).

The Tohoku Shinkansen is covered by the pass up to Nasushiobara. You can make the one way trip in 69 minutes with an average speed of 85.8 MPH (137 KPH).

If you can get onto a MAX E4 series, it is the last double decker left and it is the highest seating capacity train in the world.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 7, 2014)

I heard the Nagano Shinkansen was overrated and that the Tohoku Shinkansen was better. I heard the Nagano had too many tunnels.

So VentureForth, what is your favorite Shinkansen equipment?


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## railiner (Aug 8, 2014)

Hmm. Interesting thread. Brings back fond memories of my "Around the World in Four Days" trip I took back in 2000.... 

I was lucky enought to spend two nights at Narita. I started my day touring Tokyo, by taking the Keisei Line "Morning Liner" (a mid-price, semi-express) into the city. I then took a comprehensive, all-day bus and boat sightseeing tour or the Tokyo highlights, and then headed back to Narita on JR East's Narita Express. So I did not get to experience much variety in trains, but did get a halfway decent tourist experience in the little time alotted....

Being a New Yorker, I was extremely impressed with the Japanese culture of civility....

In the rush-hour, the regular commuter's would know just where the doors would open before the train arrived, and then would actually form polite lines at those points, rather than do a "mob-rush" aboard....


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## VentureForth (Aug 8, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I heard the Nagano Shinkansen was overrated and that the Tohoku Shinkansen was better. I heard the Nagano had too many tunnels.
> 
> So VentureForth, what is your favorite Shinkansen equipment?


 Well, I loved the classic "0" series. But that's just the nostalgia in me. I remember back when their toilets opened up to the tracks back in the 70s!

Then my favorite was the 100 series. It came on board when I was in High School and for a time they ran with two cars that were double decker. One was a Green Car (first class) and I rode it once. It was fantastic and SMOOTH.

When I went back in 2005, I rode a 500 series which was awesome. It is my all time favorite. I also rode a 300 series which I thought was pretty jarring.

I haven't been on anything outside the Tokkaido line, but aesthetically, I like the E4 Max. I'm not a fan of them hooking up two sets that are totally different.

All in all, I'm a HUGE fan of the blue-on-white livery. So simple, yet so distinctive.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 13, 2014)

Well yesterday I got my first taste of Japan, and I have to say I was throughly underwhelmed. I know its not fair to judge an area by its airport, because most of my flying is done out of Newark and if people considered that view into life in to New York City they would be left just as unimpressed as I found Narita. For a major Asian airport that is still being built I found it to be very underwhelming. I have been through some of the bigger airports here in Asia (ICN,PEK,SIN,SHA) and NRT certainly didn't have much going for it. I walked through both Terminals and took the bus ride airside between the two. Nowhere did I find evidence of the rich culture that exists in Japan. I guess it was nicer then the Airport I arrived in here in Hanoi, but NRT definitely was underwhelming.

A few photos: (I just found the whole place so grey and uninviting)











Best part was being able to stroll around the terminal drinking cheap beer, and this "whiskey and soda" in can. Made it very easy to sleep through my connecting flight.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2014)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> Well yesterday I got my first taste of Japan, and I have to say I was throughly underwhelmed. I know its not fair to judge an area by its airport, because most of my flying is done out of Newark and if people considered that view into life in to New York City they would be left just as unimpressed as I found Narita. For a major Asian airport that is still being built I found it to be very underwhelming. I have been through some of the bigger airports here in Asia (ICN,PEK,SIN,SHA) and NRT certainly didn't have much going for it. I walked through both Terminals and took the bus ride airside between the two. Nowhere did I find evidence of the rich culture that exists in Japan. I guess it was nicer then the Airport I arrived in here in Hanoi, but NRT definitely was underwhelming.


What service or product was Narita missing that you were expecting to find? It may not be as efficient as Singapore's Changi, as labyrinthine as Thailand's Suvarnabhumi, or as clean as Hong Kong's Chek Lap Kok. After all it's a botched and controversial development from the 1970's. And yet I've never actually wanted for anything while I was there. Tasty restaurants, draft beers, day rooms, shower rooms, money services, pharmacies, post offices, barbers, shaving, massage, observation decks, convenience stores, camera stores, free wifi, luggage wrapping, quirky candies, silly souvenirs, goofy knickknacks, numerous airline lounges, you name it. The only thing it doesn't have is instant access to Tokyo proper. I can't think of a single US gateway that comes close to approaching true equivalency. It's undeniable that Narita has been eclipsed by several newer Asian super hubs over the years. Japan Airlines has had to endure serious financial challenges that have greatly reduced their route network. Additional changes in traffic patterns, aircraft ranges, routing treaties, and the growth of Haneda have all served to lessen future demand at NRT. As if that wasn't enough resource draining factors such as the Tohoku earthquake and the resulting Fukushima meltdown have made building yet another me-too Asian super hub a rather distant and largely unnecessary goal at this point.


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## xyzzy (Aug 13, 2014)

Nothing special about NRT, agreed. T1 reflects mid-1960s design principles (although it opened much later). T2 reflects late-1980s design principles. Perhaps the new terminal will be better, but international passengers will still use T1 or T2.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 13, 2014)

I've not been to Narita so can't comment based on personal experience but based on your pics it looks like a bus station or a generic Amshak ! The amenities that Chris describes sound European, sure don't have those in the US Airports!

Look forward to your experiences on the Trains Stephen!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> I've not been to Narita so can't comment based on personal experience but based on your pics it looks like a bus station or a generic Amshak ! The amenities that Chris describes sound European, sure don't have those in the US Airports!


It's weird to think that the US has the largest domestic airline market _by far_ and yet our airports are some of the least efficient and most generic examples I've ever seen. In the past I was able to bash European airports as well, especially London's infamous Heathrow. For decades Heathrow remained one of the most depressing airports I'd ever seen and left a bad taste in my mouth long after I had departed. Then a few weeks ago I arrived at Heathrow's brand new Terminal 2 and discovered a substantial improvement to the passenger experience compared to past visits. Now that Gatwick and Heathrow are owned and managed by different companies they're actually competing against each other in meaningful ways. Heathrow is still no match for the Asian super hubs but it's vast improvement over the dark and dreary maze of mold and mildew I once knew.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 13, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Long Train Runnin' said:
> 
> 
> > Well yesterday I got my first taste of Japan, and I have to say I was throughly underwhelmed. I know its not fair to judge an area by its airport, because most of my flying is done out of Newark and if people considered that view into life in to New York City they would be left just as unimpressed as I found Narita. For a major Asian airport that is still being built I found it to be very underwhelming. I have been through some of the bigger airports here in Asia (ICN,PEK,SIN,SHA) and NRT certainly didn't have much going for it. I walked through both Terminals and took the bus ride airside between the two. Nowhere did I find evidence of the rich culture that exists in Japan. I guess it was nicer then the Airport I arrived in here in Hanoi, but NRT definitely was underwhelming.
> ...



I guess NRT did meet my basic needs, I was able to use the United Club to take a shower and have a cold glass of beer, but once I made it over to terminal 2 where my flight on Japan Airlines was departing I only found a couple of shops and one restaurant the Miso Bar where I was able to eat a small meal and enjoy more cold beer. I just was disappointed it didn't leave a strong impression on me, Japan is supposed to have one of the most vibrant cultures in the world, but their airport had no signs of it. No murals or displays of their long rich history just grey walls and a few adds for Nissan and Hitachi. I guess yes it was functional and provided all the services an air traveler could need, but it could have done it with a little more style.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 14, 2014)

Int'l airports I don't know.

Narita had reasonably priced food, with no long waits, compared to PHX or DEN.

Shops - I will never care. (well the insanely overpriced places at LAX gave amusement.)

Narita -- OK - got in and and out no hassles. Got some supposedly wasabe-flavored kit-kats to dispose of coin.


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## tp49 (Aug 14, 2014)

I do wish that NRT had a shop to buy a fitted Yomuri Giants (Japanese Baseball) cap. Walked the entirety of the airport and was not able to locate one.


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## beautifulplanet (Aug 14, 2014)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> I guess NRT did meet my basic needs, I was able to use the United Club to take a shower and have a cold glass of beer, but once I made it over to terminal 2 where my flight on Japan Airlines was departing I only found a couple of shops and one restaurant the Miso Bar where I was able to eat a small meal and enjoy more cold beer. I just was disappointed it didn't leave a strong impression on me, Japan is supposed to have one of the most vibrant cultures in the world, but their airport had no signs of it. No murals or displays of their long rich history just grey walls and a few adds for Nissan and Hitachi. I guess yes it was functional and provided all the services an air traveler could need, but it could have done it with a little more style.


Some might be surprised to read all of this, the expectation that an airport should be the place where to experience the respective country's "vibrant culture" and for the airport to have "murals or displays of their long rich history" on the walls, and might think that the above example with Newark was a good one, after all Newark Airport doesn't have "murals or displays of their long rich history" on its walls. Some might think it's similar to a New York visitor not going to Times Square, not going to Broadway and the 1,000s of other interesting places, instead just staying at Newark Airport and then being disappointed that one didn't get to experience the "vibrant culture" that the place is supposed to have, but instead just a lot of different shades of dark white, grey and beige. Many might think just like Newark Airport is a place where people travel, Narita International Airport would be a place where people travel, and possibly not the Japan Pavillion of Epcot. 

Here the wish goes out to all Japan travelers that they'll enjoy their time in this wonderful country.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 14, 2014)

Right -- bugger all that - as long as the airport gets me to where I'm going.

Narita is not as inconvenient as Dulles, for example. But inconvenient.

But - the food is reasonable, the ground connections are not very good -- like many many places.

I'm sorry but -- as expected

country's "vibrant culture" and for the airport to have "murals or displays of their long rich history"

Yeah - seen that some places -- even MSP -- worthless.

What I want in an airport is -- get me on my way quick -- please -- thank your very much.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 14, 2014)

The "New" Austin Airport ( old Bergstrom AFB), has a couple of uniquely Local features in that all of the food and drink vendors @ the airport are Austin based, not chains, and live music playing in several of the pubs/ drinking establishments and on stages spread out in the concourse!

Also local artists have their creations for sale and there are very informative info boards about Austin and Central Texas throughout the Airport!☺

The bad news is that all of the food and drink and music is on the gate side of the Concourse requiring you to run the Blue Shirt/ G e s t a p o guantelet for access, so only ticketed passengers can actually patronize them! Visitors and those picking up passengers are SOL!!


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 14, 2014)

Wow I didn't think my expectations were that out there. Even msp has some signs of culture imho with some of the light fixtures having antlers if I'm not mistaken. Most of these larger asian airports do have indications of their culture. Although I'm currently sitting here in the airport in Hanoi and even here there is a cultural display even if the rest of the terminal is drab.

8


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 14, 2014)

Photos of the cultural display in Hanoi Airport.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 14, 2014)

Bet your reception and trip to Vietnam was much different than mine in 1966!!!

Beautiful scenery and fascinating culture and people, I'd like to go back and visit if I could afford it!


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 27, 2014)

Well my precious 20 hours are ticking away. Just about 2am here local time, had a good evening riding some of the JR lines and a couple pieces of the Tokyo Metro. Kind of hard to find a bite to eat late night here in the train station where I am staying. Tokyo Station is so much larger then I would have guessed. It feels A LOT like NYP to me just way way busier. I walked around the station for almost 2 hours just to get try and reach every possible corner of the place. The hotel here is really wonderful, I am looking forward to seeing all of the shops open in the day time. The waves and waves of people didn't stop when walking around at around 11pm it felt like it could have been 8:30AM in NYP. I can't imagine what the rush will look like tomorrow.

A couple of quick and poorly focused cell phone snaps.


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## beautifulplanet (Aug 27, 2014)

Happy to hear the 20 hours in Japan ended up good after all (at least so far).



Long Train Runnin' said:


> Well my precious 20 hours are ticking away. Just about 2am here local time, had a good evening riding some of the JR lines and a couple pieces of the Tokyo Metro. Kind of hard to find a bite to eat late night here in the train station where I am staying. Tokyo Station is so much larger then I would have guessed. It feels A LOT like NYP to me just way way busier. I walked around the station for almost 2 hours just to get try and reach every possible corner of the place. The hotel here is really wonderful, I am looking forward to seeing all of the shops open in the day time. The waves and waves of people didn't stop when walking around at around 11pm it felt like it could have been 8:30AM in NYP. I can't imagine what the rush will look like tomorrow.


According to official numbers, New York Penn Station has about 650,000 daily users, while the JR East part of Tokyo station is used by just above 400,000 a day - and how much JR Central's Tokaido Shinkansen and the Marunouchi Line of Tokyo metro will add to that is not known to me...


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## NW cannonball (Aug 28, 2014)

JR claims about 3901000/ day on the tokaido shinkansen - but that's total riders, not just riders from Tokyo Station

Any way you look at it Tokyo station is an amazing and confusing place to be.

But real good for culture &


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## beautifulplanet (Aug 28, 2014)

Thank you very much for your reply.



NW cannonball said:


> JR claims about 3901000/ day on the tokaido shinkansen - but that's total riders, not just riders from Tokyo Station


Just found more numbers (not knowing how current or reliable they are), it says that about 140,000 use the Tokyo metro at that Tokyo Station every day, and about 92,000 use JR Central services at Tokyo Station, so 400,000+140,000+92,000 equals 632,000 users a day, which would be pretty similar to the number above cited for New York Penn Station.



NW cannonball said:


> Any way you look at it Tokyo station is an amazing [...] place to be.


Many might think, that it is really beneficial that all this rail infrastructure was built, with all these rail services operating now.

Some might think, no matter if it's about New York's Penn Station, or about Tokyo Station, if all these hundreds of thousands of travelers used their own private car instead, how much more congested would the cities and roads be, and how much more pollution would be generated, so many walkable and transit-oriented places would probably not exist then if everything was just planned around the automobile, how big would the economic and non-economic loss be because of even more delays, time lost in traffic jams, health effects etc. So some might think it is appropriate to value and appreciate all the investments and efforts that led to all the benefits that can be enjoyed by use of today's rail infrastructure and services, also for society as a whole.

At the same time, some might think one aspect especially impressive about Tokyo Station, are the high-speed rail services offered there - which might seem especially exceptional when mentioning New York's Penn Station as well. There are so many Shinkansen services at Tokyo Station, offering a fast, frequent and reliable connection to many other cities. It is because the elected representatives of the voting Japanese public made the decisions to make the necessary investments in rail. New York Penn Station also has its current rail services, which is a great achievement in itself. Plans have been made public to create rail infrastructure and rail services similar to the Shinkansen in Japan with The Amtrak Vision for the Northeast Corridor - 2012 Update Report. In order to connect New York with Washington D.C. in 94 minutes, with Boston in 94 minutes, with Philadelphia in 37 minutes and Philadelphia with Washington D.C. in 54 minutes, as well as increase capacity for more and improved commuter rail and conventional inter-city services, annual funding between $2 and $10 billion would be necessary for a time span of about 24 years, according to that plan. While an average of $6 billion annually would just equal 0.15% of the total federal annual expenditures of about $3.9 trillion, and while the USA is the wealthiest country on the planet, it is possible that the elected representatives of the voting American public will not make the decision to make the necessary investments in rail according to that plan, for the nation's most populated region. Some might think that while enthusiasts with the necessary budget will always still be able to go to Japan to experience fast, frequent and reliable rail services, it might be unfortunate for the American population if it was to miss out on the benefits of a similar rail system, and instead would have to put up with the resulting economic loss and non-economic disadvantages.


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## jis (Aug 28, 2014)

Interestingly though, Tokyo Station is not even the largest station in Tokyo. That distinction goes to Shinjuku both for JRE (ex-JNR) and also everything taken together.

Also, I am not sure what they mean by "boarding passengers" All that they can count is how many people went through the turnstiles for the suburban service, since most riders are using something like SUICA. So passengers who are merely connecting from one train to another without passing a turnstile, are probably not part of the count, and that number can be quite large in and of itself. As I recall the single turnstile protected area is quite vast in Tokyo Station and even includes lines like the Keiyo Line towards Chiba, which is a block and a half away through a pedestrian tunnel. Of course there is a second set of turnstiles one has to pass to get to the Shinkansen station, which can be passed only with a Shinkansen ticket.

But even compared to Tokyo Station, Shinjuku is in a different league altogether! There were a couple of week long trips when I stayed at the Hilton around there and commuted to work in Shimbashi. It was quite an experience.

But the business trips that I enjoyed most were centered around Yokohama which seems to have quite a bit of character of its own.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 28, 2014)

jis said:


> Interestingly though, Tokyo Station is not even the largest station in Tokyo. That distinction goes to Shinjuku both for JRE (ex-JNR) and also everything taken together.
> 
> Also, I am not sure what they mean by "boarding passengers" All that they can count is how many people went through the turnstiles for the suburban service, since most riders are using something like SUICA. So passengers who are merely connecting from one train to another without passing a turnstile, are probably not part of the count, and that number can be quite large in and of itself. As I recall the single turnstile protected area is quite vast in Tokyo Station and even includes lines like the Keiyo Line towards Chiba, which is a block and a half away through a pedestrian tunnel. Of course there is a second set of turnstiles one has to pass to get to the Shinkansen station, which can be passed only with a Shinkansen ticket.
> 
> ...


SUICA or PASMO (seems interchangeable to this foreigner) wins ! )

Yokohama has it's Chinatown (really good food!) -- but seems like a totally different place from Tokyo.

The big 5 train stations in Tokyo are amazing (and confusing if you manage to get outside and want in again)

Tokyo, Shinjuku, Ueno, Shinagawa, Ikebukuro.

Good food anywhere near any of them (and anywhere else) -- try the takomaki at the food floor at any department store at any of the main stations. Or the "Shopping street" near Ueno.

A week was too little time -- hope your 20 hours go well.

I still sometimes, while riding my local light rail, imagine that the recorded message will say

"The next station is "Ikebukuro" ikebukuro. The doors on the right side will open. transfer here to "many many many""


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## VentureForth (Aug 30, 2014)

Hey LTR, any updates on day 2? Did you get to ride rhe Shinkansen?

Yes, the aurports (and train stations) can be quite drab. Narita is a utilitarian 60s design built in the 70s. Haneda is even older. Train stations aren't much better, but after JR took over in the late 80s, they've at least tried to keep them refurbished.


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