# Does anyone know the status of the Caltrans Comet IB cars?



## roadman3313 (Jan 6, 2013)

Subject line says it all... I know they mentioned two prototypes estimated to be completed in late December 2012/early January 2013. Does anyone know the status of the 14 Comet IB cars set to be sent over to Amtrak California for San Joaquin service as well as the retrofitted Horizon Dinette's and NPCU's? Been a while since I've heard anything about them, but then again they aren't exactly putting out press releases front and center about using used rail cars from the late 60's!

The purpose of the cars is to allow some of the bi-level California cars to be re-allocated to the other Amtrak California Routes until the new car deliveries start coming in around 2015-2016.


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## CHamilton (Mar 13, 2013)

From Amtrak on Facebook:


> Our great employees at Beech Grove are proud to show you the first completed car in the Comet Car Project. They turned this used New Jersey Transit cab car into a completely refurbished coach car for Caltrans in California. Like this if you love an American company that reduces and reuses!


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## rickycourtney (Mar 13, 2013)

The first of the rebuilt NPCU's arrived in Oakland earlier this month. If you search the forums there is a picture posted.

Caltrans is going for an interesting look on these trains. The NPCU is in a retro Caltrain livery. The dark blue stripe on this Comet IB is similar to the current livery but those color stripes are almost an homage to their former lives with New Jersey Transit.


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## Blackwolf (Mar 13, 2013)

Is it wrong of me to _actually want_ a ride in one of these? :giggle:


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## PaulM (Mar 13, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> Is it wrong of me to _actually want_ a ride in one of these? :giggle:


Why not ride one and then tell us.

Disclosurer: I'm a fan of unliked passenger cars like the Horizons because they are my ticket to the outside world.


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## Blackwolf (Mar 13, 2013)

PaulM said:


> Blackwolf said:
> 
> 
> > Is it wrong of me to _actually want_ a ride in one of these? :giggle:
> ...


I'll have to wait my turn this summer.


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## jis (Mar 13, 2013)

Remember that these cars, although called Comet 1B, have nothing to do with the Comet Cars or the Horizon Cars. They were originally created by depowering Arrow II EMUs. That's why in NJ they were colloquially known as Comarrows.


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## MikeM (Mar 13, 2013)

Has there been any interior shots of these cars posted to the net yet? I'd love to see if they look at all decent or if they still have that overworked and undercleaned look about them. I read somewhere else on this forum that the interiors had been redone similar to other California cars, but would be interested to see how they did it.


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## Nathanael (Mar 13, 2013)

Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.

IIRC (and I may not), currently:

- California uses "California car" bilevels on the San Joaquins and Capitol Corridor

- California uses "Surfliner" and "California Car" bilevels *and* Amfleets *and* borrowed rebuilt Superliner bilevels on the Pacific Surfliner

I believe California wanted to get a fleet of all Surfliners/California Cars on the Pacific Surfliner.

Now, these rebuilt "Comet IB" cars, along with NPCUs and Horizon cafes, will be going on the San Joaquins.

So what exactly is the equipment cascade? Do the San Joaquin bilevels go to the Pacific Surfliner to replace the Amfleets? Then where do the Amfleets go? How about the Superliner cars? Does anyone know?


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## Blackwolf (Mar 13, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.
> IIRC (and I may not), currently:
> 
> - California uses "California car" bilevels on the San Joaquins and Capitol Corridor
> ...


I believe, but not certain, that one plan is to provide for one to two more round-trip frequencies on the SJ route. In turn, reduce the double-decker California Car consists on the SJ by one car each, then reallocate those now "freed" cars onto both the San Joaquin and the Capitol Corridor so that more of the overall CalCar fleet could be taken from service for overhauling. Think about it, the oldest of the CalCars are now approaching 20 years of age (SHOCKING!) and need to be rebuilt.

As for the Pacific Surfliner fleet? Your guess is as good as mine since, in essence, that is an orphaned fleet separate from the SJ and the CC fleet.


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## sac-conductor (Mar 13, 2013)

Total of twelve cars and 3 baggage/control cars from modified locomotives will be assigned to the Oakland maint. Facility. The rumor around the crew bases is that these cars will replace two existing San Joaquin sets and the displaced 8xxx series California cars will be distributed among the capital corridor. The 6xxx series cars in ca paint will go to LA as that is where the parts for the Surfliner (6xxx) series cars are.

Again this is just a rumor, can't say it as fact until something actually happens. I would imagine that superliner cars in case and surfliner colors will remain in case corridor service until the lease between Amtrak and California expires.


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## calwatch (Mar 13, 2013)

No additional frequencies are to be added. One set (seven Comet cars plus a diner and NPCU, noting that Comet cars have lower seating capacity than a bi-level) will be used on the 711/718 turn. The four cars normally on that set then get broken up and redistributed to the other trains. This would happen near May. The same would happen for the next set which would be in operation around Thanksgiving.


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## X (Mar 14, 2013)

calwatch said:


> No additional frequencies are to be added. One set (seven Comet cars plus a diner and NPCU, noting that Comet cars have lower seating capacity than a bi-level) will be used on the 711/718 turn. The four cars normally on that set then get broken up and redistributed to the other trains. This would happen near May. The same would happen for the next set which would be in operation around Thanksgiving.


Correct, as far as I know, and with the huge caveat that the plan is very much subject to change.

Of course Beech Grove is behind schedule, as they always are, so don't be supprised if the first set finally starts service in June or later.


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## X (Mar 14, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.
> IIRC (and I may not), currently:
> 
> - California uses "California car" bilevels on the San Joaquins and Capitol Corridor
> ...


For those keeping track at home, the current status is:

_Capitol Corridor_ / _San Joaquins_: 66 Caltrans California Cars (8xxx), 12 Caltrans Surfliner Cars (6x6x), misc Superliners

_Pacific Surfliners_: 38 (Orig 39) Amtrak Surfliner Cars (6x0x / 6x1x), 10 Caltrans Surfliner Cars (6x5x), misc Superliners, misc Amfleets and Horizons

The Superliners, Amfleets, Horizons (minus the Comet set diners) and maybe the Comets (and Horizon diners) will go away once the new Bi-Levels show up, but not before that (barring those required by lease agreements).


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## X (Mar 14, 2013)

X said:


> calwatch said:
> 
> 
> > No additional frequencies are to be added. One set (seven Comet cars plus a diner and NPCU, noting that Comet cars have lower seating capacity than a bi-level) will be used on the 711/718 turn. The four cars normally on that set then get broken up and redistributed to the other trains. This would happen near May. The same would happen for the next set which would be in operation around Thanksgiving.
> ...


One correction, sorry.

There's only 14 Comet cars, operating two sets of 7 would mean no spares for Bad Ordered (B/O) cars, and no cars to rotate through Planed / Preventative Maintenance (PM). There will be 4-5 Comets per set, the only time you'll see 6 or 7 is for surges like the Thanksgiving holliday rush.


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## calwatch (Mar 14, 2013)

For the low ridership 711/718 pair four cars should be sufficient for most days.


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## rickycourtney (Apr 1, 2013)

I've been told that the first Comet IB arrived in Chicago today from the Beech Grove shops. Keep an eye out for it on #5 this week.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 1, 2013)

Agent, get your camara ready.


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## roadman3313 (Apr 1, 2013)

From what I heard it should have left today on 5(1) for an arrival into the Oakland Yard on April 3rd. Should be a coach car renumbered to 5008 located just in front of the baggage car and behind the locomotives.


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## Agent (Apr 1, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Agent, get your camara ready.


Way ahead of you.


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## Agent (Apr 2, 2013)

Well #5 was delayed over an hour and half before it got to me, so darkness had fallen when it finally got here. I did my best, but I'm not that experienced with night shooting.


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## roadman3313 (Apr 2, 2013)

Well... At least the interior lights work! Anyone have any photos of the actual car on 5(1) yet? Won't be here to the Bay Area until tomorrow...


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## Blackwolf (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm planning on making a trip to SAC tomorrow to try and catch a picture as it pulls into the station. We'll see if I can manage it.


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## roadman3313 (Apr 3, 2013)

Current estimate into SAC is 10:16pm... Just over 8 hours late. Too bad it will be dark... I'm taking the CC home from work into the station that arrives around 10:15pm so if the lighting and angle are good Ill try to get a picture.

As a side note the NPCU unit is on trains 712/717 today on a test run attached to the cab car. It lead heading south/east on train 712 and will be trailing this afternoon/evening on train 717 if anyone is out and about


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## johnny.menhennet (Apr 3, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.
> IIRC (and I may not), currently:
> 
> - California uses "California car" bilevels on the San Joaquins and Capitol Corridor
> ...


I'm fairly certain that the California Cars are not in use on the Surfliner service. These cars, the first batch that arrived, have the cafe on the upper level, and every Surfliner car set in SoCal has the same cafe arrangement.


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## roadman3313 (Apr 3, 2013)

California Cars run out of the Oakland Maintenance Facility. "Surfliner" cars run out of both the Oakland Maintenance Facility (New Series) and Los Angeles Yard (Original Surfliner and New Series).

California Cars have the upstairs version of the California Cafe. Surfliner cars have a downstairs version of either the California Cafe (Northern California) or Seaside Cafe (Southern California).


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## rickycourtney (Apr 3, 2013)

johnny.menhennet said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm. I still haven't figured out what, exactly, California's plans are.
> ...


It's insanely confusing that Amtrak calls these the "surfliner cars" and the "california cars."

The so-called "california cars" are numbered in the 8000's. They were built in 1996 by Morrison-Knudsen

The "surfliner cars" are numbered in 6000's They were built in 2000 & 2002 by Alstom.

As I understand it:

The Pacific Surfliner uses the 6000 series cars painted in the blue and silver livery

The San Joaquin & Capitol Corridor use the 8000 series cars but they also use some 6000 series cars (about a dozen), all are painted in the dark blue and gold livery.

I haven't heard where the 6000/8000 series cars will be re-assigned with the 5000 series Comet cars arrive. I was under the impression they were going to stay in Northern/Central California. The 5000 cars were going to be used to on the less busy SJ runs... and the other SJ/CC trains would recieve extra cars to increase capacity.

On a side note: with the midwest getting their own fleet of bi-livel intercity cars Amtrak should REALLY think about re-naming these cars (Superliner Regional I, II & III or Superliner Intercity I, II & III?)


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## Blackwolf (Apr 3, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> On a side note: with the midwest getting their own fleet of bi-livel intercity cars Amtrak should REALLY think about re-naming these cars (Superliner Regional I, II & III or Superliner Intercity I, II & III?)


They may or may not "officially" rename them (actually, are the California/Surfliner monikers really official?) but I can promise you they are forever coined "California" cars. Much like the NPCU's are "Cabbages", AEM-7's are "Toasters", Amfleets are "AmCans" and so-on.


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## calwatch (May 22, 2013)

There is a full fact sheet with more details in the San Joaquin JPA agenda packet - http://acerail.com/Libraries/SJJPA/Complete_SJJPA_May_2013_Packet.sflb.ashx


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## roadman3313 (May 22, 2013)

Thanks! June '13 eh... Sounds like they will need to send a lot more cars over and do more public out reach if they expect that to happen!


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## X (May 23, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> actually, are the California/Surfliner monikers really official?


Yes.

It varies depending on where you look, but the the California cars are "California Intercity Cars" or "CALTRANS Intercity Cars", "California Car" being the de facto term.

The Surfliners were originally "San Diegans" / "San Diegan Intercity Cars" , then renamed along with the service.


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## X (May 23, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Thanks! June '13 eh... Sounds like they will need to send a lot more cars over and do more public out reach if they expect that to happen!


The next Comet and first Horizon (Food Service) are supposed to be leaving Chicago any day now*.

That said, expect Amfleets to be in the mix if a single level set actually starts running in June.

*Amtrak (Beech Grove) time is not known to have any correlation to actual time


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## roadman3313 (May 23, 2013)

Well it sounds like it might be possible at the end of June... I'd assume testing and training would have to occur first as well as some public PR... Would result in some operational changes as well Id assume. Not sure how cars will be rotated around but I assume California Coaches would be added to the San Joaquin and 35001 and 35005 (feel free to correct numbers) would be given back to Amtrak and two of the 80xx cars would go from San Joaquin to Capitol Corridor operations?


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## rickycourtney (May 23, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Well it sounds like it might be possible at the end of June... I'd assume testing and training would have to occur first as well as some public PR... Would result in some operational changes as well Id assume. Not sure how cars will be rotated around but I assume California Coaches would be added to the San Joaquin and 35001 and 35005 (feel free to correct numbers) would be given back to Amtrak and two of the 80xx cars would go from San Joaquin to Capitol Corridor operations?


From the document it sounds like the other San Joaquin consists will have extra coaches added. It makes since, considering some of the runs can approach being standing room only.

Frankly I didn't know that Caltrans was leasing café cars from Amtrak... I've never seen the Superliner snack coaches on the San Joaquin (but I doubt they would put them in the consist because of the longer run.)



X said:


> The next Comet and first Horizon (Food Service) are supposed to be leaving Chicago any day now*.
> That said, expect Amfleets to be in the mix if a single level set actually starts running in June.
> 
> *Amtrak (Beech Grove) time is not known to have any correlation to actual time


Well right on cue... TheOther train forum has pictures of a Horizon Dinette and Comet IB coach in the Amtrak California livery heading west today on 5(23).


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## rickycourtney (May 23, 2013)

What I find strange is that in the August 2012 presentation... Caltrans said these cars would have a bike

rack installed (near the wheelchair space.) But fast-forward to today and these cars aren't being delivered with bike racks and now I'm hearing rumblings that all bikes will have to be stored in the baggage area of the NPCU.

So does anyone know the real story?

Will these cars have not have bike racks... or will they be installed at the Oakland shops before they go into service?


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## Agent (May 23, 2013)

Here's all 62 axles of Amtrak #5(23) passing through Agency, Iowa with the Horizon dinette and Comet coach. There's also an extra bonus in the private Pullman _Suitsme_ on the end.


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## Ryan (May 23, 2013)

Wow, that's a lot of train.


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## roadman3313 (May 23, 2013)

The Coach Cars should be redistributed to the San Joaquin as you mentioned. They are a much needed relief to some trips which are over-crowded or Sold Out.

The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.


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## Agent (May 24, 2013)

Another train enthusiast also caught #5(23) earlier in nearby Fairfield, Iowa. He filmed the other side of the train (in HD).


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## Blackwolf (May 24, 2013)

The close similarities between the Horizon and Comet cars will make for a relatively uniform train appearance. I like this, as it sends a professional image, instead of the garish contrast you get when an AmCan is thrown in the mix.


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## X (May 24, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> What I find strange is that in the August 2012 presentation... Caltrans said these cars would have a bikerack installed (near the wheelchair space.) But fast-forward to today and these cars aren't being delivered with bike racks and now I'm hearing rumblings that all bikes will have to be stored in the baggage area of the NPCU.
> 
> So does anyone know the real story?
> 
> Will these cars have not have bike racks... or will they be installed at the Oakland shops before they go into service?


It's complicated...

No bike racks in the coaches, at least for the short term.


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## X (May 24, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.


Yes, 3500*3* and 35005 are a royal pain for the LSAs and Commissary, and lack the storage space needed for the _San Joaquins_, so are only ever on them as a last resort. The Surfliner Cafes are much more friendly, but still lack the storage necessary for the _SJ_s. That's not the reason you only see them (6361 & 6362) on 4 car trains, however.


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## rickycourtney (May 24, 2013)

X said:


> It's complicated...


I'm curious to know what changed. PM me if you must.


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## roadman3313 (May 24, 2013)

X said:


> roadman3313 said:
> 
> 
> > The Amtrak Superliner Cafe cars are generally assigned strictly to 4-car Capitol Corridor Consists. The layout is not really conducive to large crowds as can often be seen on the San Joaquin. I usually notice the Surfliner (6361 and 6362) Cafe cars are generally kept on the Capitol Corridor 4-car train sets as well, when possible. The two 88xx cars will be welcome back to the Capitol Corridor, at least by the LSA'a as the Superliners are a bit more cumbersome and require more digging in refrigerators an bending over AFAIK.
> ...


I figure the set-up is for each consist to have 4 cars worth of coach seating whether that be Cab/Coach/Baggage/Bike, Coach, California (Upstairs) Cafe, Coach, Coach(Baggage), Loco, or Cab/Coach/Baggage/Bike, Surfliner Cafe/Coach (Downstairs)/Superliner Cafe/Coach (Downstairs), Coach, Coach, Loco.

The consist I never liked was a 4-car consist with an upstairs cafe on train 715 on the weekend. This happened to me twice. Both times there was not enough seating for everyone as only 3 of the cars had coach seating so Conductors had to start seating people in the Cafe Car itself with baggage. While this consist shares with the lighter used Sacramento runs, it also turns from/to one of the busiest runs to/from Oakland. I assumed that there was a BO car cut out or a shortage but it was a serious mess with people arguing over seats and complaining. I usually take one of the single seats in the 80xx coach cars to try to get a little solitude from the madness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those seats also slightly wider than the standard coach seats in the car? I do know the two tray tables are handy as well 

Is there also one Superliner hanging around in a consist as well (behind the Locomotive) that isn't used as a cafe? Figure that may go back to Amtrak full-time as well once the Comet Cars come in.


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## Agent (May 24, 2013)

I caught Amtrak #5(24) this evening and it surprised me with the NPCU cabbage car AMTK 90200 on the end. Is this also going to be part of the single level set on the _San Joaquin_? I think it could help the backup move into Denver Union Station at least.



Fun facts: 90200 is former AMTK 200 which was the very first F40PH made. It made its last revenue run as a locomotive on the _California Zephyr_ 16 years and 2 months ago on March 15, 1997.


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## rickycourtney (May 24, 2013)

It sounds like this NPCU will be cut-off in Denver and be attached to ACS-64 #600 which is making it's way to the test track in Pueblo.

If the roster on On Track On Line is correct... it appears that the NPCU's Caltrans has leased are 90215, 90218 (already in OAK) & 90225.


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## AlanB (May 25, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> X said:
> 
> 
> > It's complicated...
> ...


Guests cannot send PM's Ricky, so don't expect a response that way.


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## AlanB (May 25, 2013)

Agent said:


> I caught Amtrak #5(24) this evening and it surprised me with the NPCU cabbage car AMTK 90200 on the end. Is this also going to be part of the single level set on the _San Joaquin_? I think it could make the backup move into Denver Union Station at least.


The engineer would not be able to use 90200 for the backup move. The Superliner cars have no MU cables and therefore the NPCU cannot control the engine on the other end.

No doubt the conductor can and will use the NPCU and it's mushroom (emergency brake button) during the backup move in lieu of holding the brake hose like normal at the rear car. But that is the extent of the NPCU's abilities on this train.


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## rickycourtney (May 27, 2013)

So I read through the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority report (hat tip to Calwatch for posting that).
Since there appears to be some interest/confusion about these cars I thought I’d summarize the highlights of the report (there's some new info here along with some old but interesting info):

The 14 Comet IB cars were purchased from New Jersey Transit for $75,000 each. The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans/CDTX) paid $1.4 million per car to have them refurbished at Amtrak’s Beech Grove shops.

Many of the systems (HVAC, brakes, couplers, etc.) have been rebuilt or replaced with Amtrak standard systems.
The power side doors are gone and have been replaced with manual dutch doors with traps.
The 3x2 vinyl commuter seats are also gone and have been replaced by Amtrak’s standard 2x2 inter-city seats (that recline unlike the seats on the 8000-seres California Cars.)
Each Comet car will seat 64 passengers (some around 6 tables in the center of the car) plus one space for a wheelchair to park. Each seat pair will have 2 power outlets and the cars will have the AmtrakConnect WiFi system.
At the ends of the car an ADA-compliant restroom module has been installed, along with a luggage rack for large bags and Trash and recycle bins.
Despite being mentioned in an earlier report, it appears there will be no bike rack (Ed: although they could be added later.)

One of the Comet Car trainsets could go into service on the San Joaquin as early as June 2013.


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## calwatch (May 30, 2013)

_The Division of Rail is pleased to announce that a remodeled Comet Car and Cab Control Car will be on display and available for viewing before and after tomorrow’s SJVRC meeting in Sacramento. The cars will be located on the Sacramento Museum rail track located behind the Sacramento Rail museum. _

The meeting is at 1 pm May 31 at the Rail Museum and is a good opportunity to check it out.


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## afigg (May 30, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> So I read through the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority report (hat tip to Calwatch for posting that).Since there appears to be some interest/confusion about these cars I thought Id summarize the highlights of the report (there's some new info here along with some old but interesting info):
> 
> The 14 Comet IB cars were purchased from New Jersey Transit for $75,000 each. The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans/CDTX) paid $1.4 million per car to have them refurbished at Amtraks Beech Grove shops.


Caltrans is also leasing 3 Horizon café cars from Amtrak for food service for the trainsets. So that is where 3 of the Horizons cars will be for the next few years. Caltrans must have some plans on what to do with the refurbed Comet IB cars when all the corridor bi-level cars ordered so far are delivered. With the cars having been fully rebuilt and up to modern spec, perhaps the Comets could be re-sold or leased to another state looking to start up a new service at the end of the decade.


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## Blackwolf (May 30, 2013)

calwatch said:


> _The Division of Rail is pleased to announce that a remodeled Comet Car and Cab Control Car will be on display and available for viewing before and after tomorrow’s SJVRC meeting in Sacramento. The cars will be located on the Sacramento Museum rail track located behind the Sacramento Rail museum. _
> The meeting is at 1 pm May 31 at the Rail Museum and is a good opportunity to check it out.


I'll be there!


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## Blackwolf (May 31, 2013)

So, just got back home after dropping by to visit the exhibit. All I can say is that for a 45+ year old beat-into-the-ground-commuter car, CDTX #5008 "_The Redwood_" is pretty darn spiffy. There was a slight delay in getting it open to the public as Amtrak P42 #173 was being cantankerous and did not want to start initially (the consist parked on the California State Railroad Museum trackage consisted of AMTK #173, CDTX #5008, AMTK #90218,) and the Road Foreman from Caltrans that was in charge did not want to allow people aboard until HEP was turned on for lights and air-conditioning. After about 10 minutes of fussing around, the engine start bell began to ring and was followed by the chugging of a prime mover coming to life.

There were a few people waiting, but all were aboard quickly enough after the lights snapped on. The interior is spartan, but it is not exactly bad either. These are hard-working cars and will see a steady stream of people who just want to get from point A to point B, and they will be pretty comfortable I do think. The seats are AmFleet I short-distance seats with 42" pitch. They are permanently mounted though and are not capable of being fipped, so half the car has seats facing one way while the the rest face the other. Due to the decision to retain the former NJT overhead racks, the cars have a very open feel. Now I know what "New Railcar Smell" smells like too!

The list of stuff replaced is extensive, and the man who is in charge of the whole entire Caltrans Division of Rail rolling stock procurement was on hand to show off his baby. Really nice guy, and very passionate (he's responsible for the retro CalTrain paint scheme on #90218, and the "Disco Stripes" at the car ends are very intentional as a nod to NJT and the car's roots.) There are brass builders plates being made that each car will wear stamped with St. Louis Car Company, using original font and company logos, as well as the original build date for each respective car (either 1968 or 1969.) Adjacent to these will be MK plates from the 1980's rebuild as well as Amtrak Beech Grove plates for the Caltrans conversion.

All-in-all, I think these cars will be a very nice ride. Really, they were torn down and stripped completely clean and only the stainless steel car bodies are left; everything else from the running gear to the windows are new; interior-wise only the overhead luggage racks are retained from NJT. It was confirmed, one set of single-levels will be running before June is closed out (the 18th is the target date, but absolutely before 4th of July week) and Amtrak did send out several AmFleet cars in order to make this happen. The second set will be running before Thanksgiving weekend.


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## SubwayNut (Jun 1, 2013)

I have a trip planned going from the Bay Area to Los Angeles on June 18th and was going to go via the San Joaquin. Any word on which train turn is targeted to receive the single level cars first. I will try and plan my trip south around hopefully riding them?

Normally single-level equipment is something I avoid in California but I'd love to add a second out of New Jersey train line I've ridden their old Comets on to my rolling stock list (the first was on the FrontRunner in Utah).


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## Agent (Jun 1, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> All-in-all, I think these cars will be a very nice ride. Really, they were torn down and stripped completely clean and only the stainless steel car bodies are left; everything else from the running gear to the windows are new; interior-wise only the overhead luggage racks are retained from NJT. It was confirmed, one set of single-levels will be running before June is closed out (the 18th is the target date, but absolutely before 4th of July week) and Amtrak did send out several AmFleet cars in order to make this happen. The second set will be running before Thanksgiving weekend.


That explains why I saw Amfleets on the _California Zephyr_. I was really wondering about that. (Perhaps these threads can merged).


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## calwatch (Jun 2, 2013)

On the bike issue the reason the bike racks are in the cabbage car is because of ADA. Basically you need to keep the spaces for the wheelchair users open, and a loose bicycle could fling itself at a passenger in a sudden stop which could cause injury. Therefore they are in the cabbage car and will only be loaded and unloaded at staffed stations, much like checked baggage.


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## roadman3313 (Jun 14, 2013)

Any updates on the timeline for the initial transition to the Comet set? The Amfleets are now sitting in the Oakland Yard. I know early rumors had a start date as early as next week. Seems like there are enough cars there to form a consist now. I assume it now comes down to logistical arrangements and any last pressing maintenance issues?


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## roadman3313 (Jun 20, 2013)

Train 718/711 rotation next month or in August after testing and training of Emergency personel along the train route is the latest and greatest... Sound about right?


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## X (Jun 21, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Train 718/711 rotation next month or in August after testing and training of Emergency personel along the train route is the latest and greatest... Sound about right?


Still too many open items to make any kind of educated guess...

More cars and a NPCU are being released from Beech Grove soon, who knows how close to ready they'll be though.

Here's a news article to tide you over (although I'm sure you've already seen it on TO  )

http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/19/3350752/old-rail-coaches-will-find-new.html


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## roadman3313 (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks! Your insight is always greatly appreciated and very informative! Wait and see seems like the most realistic timetable


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## X (Jun 21, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Thanks! Your insight is always greatly appreciated and very informative! Wait and see seems like the most realistic timetable


You're welcome.

It usually is with an Amtrak project.


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## rickycourtney (Jun 24, 2013)

Heads up...

A user at TheOther rail forum says that NPCU #90225 (a "cabbage") is out of the Beech Grove shops and is expected to head west to the Oakland shops on the CZ later this week. The earliest it could depart CHI would be Tuesday because of the ongoing Donner Pass closure.


This is the second of three ex-F40PH that Caltrans has paid Amtrak to lease, refurbish and repaint. It will be used with the Comet IB trainsets as a Cab/Baggage car. It'll be interesting to see if this one is painted in the heritage "1980's Caltrain" livery or the standard navy blue and orange Amtrak California livery.


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## rickycourtney (Jun 25, 2013)

As predicted NPCU #90225 is on 5(25). Departed Chicago about an hour late.


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## Agent (Jun 25, 2013)

Here's 90225, which has been dubbed _Sacramento_, third out on the _California Zephyr_ at Agency, Iowa.


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## rickycourtney (Jun 26, 2013)

Great work Agent!

Always enjoy your videos of the CZ (especially when it's bringing cars my way!)


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## Agent (Jun 27, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Great work Agent!Always enjoy your videos of the CZ (especially when it's bringing cars my way!)


Thank you!


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## Agent (Jul 8, 2013)

Another Comet lB car is heading west on Amtrak #5(08). Here is a video of this _California Zephyr_ in Fairfield, Iowa:


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## Agent (Jul 9, 2013)

And here's my video from Agency, Iowa with a "Shave and a Haircut" from the engineer:


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## rickycourtney (Jul 9, 2013)

So by my notes after today the Oakland yard should have:

3 Comet 1B coaches

1 Horizon dinette

2 NPCUs

3 Amfleet I coaches (Amtrak loaners)

1 Amfleet I dinette (Amtrak loaner)

Considering the single-level trainset was going to be made up of 4/5 coaches, 1 dinette and 1 NPCU it would seem that Caltrans now has more than enough equipment (plus shop spares) to make the switch.

Anyone out there know when the switch will happen?


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## cirdan (Jul 10, 2013)

Where are these cabbages coming from?

Does Beech Grove have spare ones sitting around? Or are they being pulled off other trains, and if so, what is replacing them?


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## rickycourtney (Jul 10, 2013)

From my understanding Amtrak has some NPCU's/cabbages to spare. The three that are going to California were also in pretty poor shape. Caltrans is paying Amtrak to lease these units and have them refurbished and repainted.


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## Agent (Jul 15, 2013)

Another Horizon dinette (thank you, roadman) is heading to California right now on Amtrak #5(15). This one is CDTX (?) 53501. It has only been one week since the last Comet 1B was sent west. Maybe this means Beech Grove has gotten in the grove of shipping these out.

http://youtu.be/M5h2UX3DX4M


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## PerRock (Jul 15, 2013)

A friend of mine sent me this today:







peter


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## roadman3313 (Jul 15, 2013)

I'd venture to say that's not a Comet IB, but instead a Horizon Dinette (Café) car. You can tell by the lack of ridges on the outside as well as the car number... 53xxx should be the Horizon Dinette cars and 50xx should be the Comet IB cars. I assume the Horizon Dinettes retained their Amtrak car numbers? Looks decent on the outside... hopefully we can see some inside pics of the Dinette soon!


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## Agent (Jul 15, 2013)

PerRock said:


> A friend of mine sent me this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well now that I get a good look at it, that's a Horizon car. Whoops. :blush:


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## SubwayNut (Jul 16, 2013)

The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.


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## roadman3313 (Jul 16, 2013)

Any update on the timeline for implementation? It would be nice to have the Bi-Levels redistributed (of have PM's complete) by the tail end of summer/start of school to assist with the loads.

Slowly but surely it is coming together


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## jis (Jul 16, 2013)

SubwayNut said:


> The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.


No they don't. They have the three diagonal stripes but of colors that are different from those used by NJT, and the actual NJT logo is the letters NJT in a stylized form, which is not present on these cars.
BTW, I think Amtrak and California are also learning the hazards of trying to refurbish cars that have been out of service for a loong long time, leading to this delay in delivery.


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## Blackwolf (Jul 16, 2013)

jis said:


> SubwayNut said:
> 
> 
> > The Comet has an NJ Transit logo too! Although the purple stripe is gone and it isn't their former car.
> ...


The "disco stripes" are intended as a very big nod toward NJ Transit, and were no mistake. Different colors for California, but the same stripes none the less.

And perhaps they are learning those hazards, but I don't suspect Amtrak has a very large knowledge gap in this case. They've been refurbishing long-OOS equipment for quite some time. In any regard, from what I've personally seen of the results they are not doing a throw-together job. The final product is nicer than just about any of the Amfleets or Horizons for aesthetics and comfort. The only part I don't know about is ride quality, but we should have an answer on that question pretty soon.


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## jis (Jul 16, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > SubwayNut said:
> ...


But the disco stripes are not NJT's logo. The stylized letters NJT is. That was my point.



> And perhaps they are learning those hazards, but I don't suspect Amtrak has a very large knowledge gap in this case. They've been refurbishing long-OOS equipment for quite some time. In any regard, from what I've personally seen of the results they are not doing a throw-together job. The final product is nicer than just about any of the Amfleets or Horizons for aesthetics and comfort. The only part I don't know about is ride quality, but we should have an answer on that question pretty soon.


I was not referring to the expertise needed or the quality of the final product at all. I was alluding to the inherent uncertainty in estimating how much work would actually be needed to refurb. You can't tell for sure until you have stripped the car down to the basics. I am sure they will come out as fine cars after somewhere between $1.7 million and $2 million per car is spent on acquiring and refurbishing them. AFAICT acquisition price was about $750K per car and refurbishment cost is in the $1 million ballpark.


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## rickycourtney (Jul 16, 2013)

jis said:


> I was not referring to the expertise needed or the quality of the final product at all. I was alluding to the inherent uncertainty in estimating how much work would actually be needed to refurb. You can't tell for sure until you have stripped the car down to the basics. I am sure they will come out as fine cars after somewhere between $1.7 million and $2 million per car is spent on acquiring and refurbishing them. AFAICT acquisition price was about $750K per car and refurbishment cost is in the $1 million ballpark.


Caltrans purchased the 14 Comet IB cars for $1.05 million, and they are paying Amtrak approximately $20 million to have the cars refurbished. That's about $1.5 million dollars per car. For reference, the 42 bi-level cars Caltrans just bought from Nippon Sharyo cost $2.71 million dollars per car.

We'll likely learn a bit more about when these cars could go into service next week at the July 26th board meeting of the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority. The agenda has staff giving an update on the status of the cars. It's also interesting to note that the SJJPA board is less than happy about the Comet cars. Last meeting they asked for assurances that all San Joaquin trainsets will go back to using bi-level cars ASAP and that they aren't responsible for paying the $21 million dollars spent on the single-level cars.


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## jis (Jul 16, 2013)

I suspect that the delay in completing the project is due to cost overruns that they are figuring out how to cover without making it too visible.  If that is true then one can surmise that there will be further delays due to the inability to pay the difference in a timely fashion.

I would be curious to learn what the official stance is these days, so please do keep us posted.


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## X (Jul 31, 2013)

It's been posted on TO, so I'll confirm that 712/717 of Thursday the 1st is planned to have a low level set.

4 Amfleet coaches, 1 Horizon Diner, 3 Comet coaches, and a NPCU, it's going to be a long train!


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## roadman3313 (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks! So I also assume that (as posted) the Comet cars will not be open to the public on 712 as it will still be considered a test run? Hopefully all goes well and 717 will allow the cars to have their first public debut. Sounds like this would be a good photo op!

On an aside I saw a 6-car (plus P42) Capitol Corridor train this past Sunday. I found that interesting as I'm used to seeing the 4 or 5 car train. Is this a sign of a future change (if additional cars are clear of maintenance and free for other uses) or just an operational change for the day?


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## frequentflyer (Jul 31, 2013)

Just what is the purpose of the comet cars? Will new service be started?


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## calwatch (Jul 31, 2013)

The California cars used for 712/717 will be redistributed to other trains, relieving capacity then. The goal was to put the Comet cars on the least used trips in order to minimize dwell time issues, which will be significant especially when someone needs to use the lift.


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## rickycourtney (Jul 31, 2013)

Does anyone know what happens if the test tomorrow is a success?

Will the single-level cars stay on 712/717 permanently or will the bi-level trainset be back on Friday?


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## X (Aug 1, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Thanks! So I also assume that (as posted) the Comet cars will not be open to the public on 712 as it will still be considered a test run? Hopefully all goes well and 717 will allow the cars to have their first public debut. Sounds like this would be a good photo op!
> On an aside I saw a 6-car (plus P42) Capitol Corridor train this past Sunday. I found that interesting as I'm used to seeing the 4 or 5 car train. Is this a sign of a future change (if additional cars are clear of maintenance and free for other uses) or just an operational change for the day?


Current plan is test run for the Comets both ways, very much subject to change.

Now just 2 Comets, by the way.

The extra car was for a special group, but the freed up cars will make doing things like that easier.


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## X (Aug 1, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Does anyone know what happens if the test tomorrow is a success?
> Will the single-level cars stay on 712/717 permanently or will the bi-level trainset be back on Friday?


Today's Bi-Level set will layover tomorrow and be back on Friday, after that, who knows?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 1, 2013)

Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.


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## rickycourtney (Aug 1, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.


I've attached the handout pictures from Caltrans.

They've been upgraded with Amtrak's standard intercity 2x2 seating (full recline, but no foot or leg rests) and IMHO the seats are nicer than the seats on the California Cars (which don't recline).


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## calwatch (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.


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## battalion51 (Aug 1, 2013)

Isn't one of the goals of the expansion of the sets to get a Quiet Car on every train? At least in the Northeast IIRC the lights are kept off except for the lights over the aisle.


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## roadman3313 (Aug 3, 2013)

Any word on how the test run ran? I know it was over an hour late on 712 out of Emeryville (left Oakland only a few down) due to mechanical issues and then late on 717 due to late train set-arrival but I believe that was due to the P42 and not the cars themselves if I heard correctly?

Any word when they may become a regular fixure (or at least used on more regular tests)?


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## John (Aug 14, 2013)

There is another one in the Chicago Yards by the S&I building I saw it this morning when on my Metra BNSF Commuter Train. Didn't catch the number though.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 15, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have interior pictures of these refurbished cars? I'm sorry if I missed some in the thread. These cars better be much more comfortable than those NJT commuters with non-reclining seats.
> ...


That looks pretty nice for a Comet. Pretty much the same as an Horizon. The windows look a bit peculiar for an Amtrak, bus lokks a lot more comfortable that the California Cars.



calwatch said:


> I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.


I ride the Greyhound too, their seats are more comfortable than the ones on California Cars. Plus, they have lots of fast and cheap service on LAD-SFD and LAD-SAC.

It's cheaper to book RNO-SAC seperately, BTW.

But I'm not happy about Greyhound's large numbers of G4500 buses in California. I'm often fighting between a slow and expensive amtrak ride with transfers, or a confvenient Greyhound ride on a G4500. But at least it's better than a Megabus Van Hool.

Not trying to go off topic, this is relevent to these Comets in CA.


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## rickycourtney (Aug 15, 2013)

calwatch said:


> I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.


I agree. Whenever I take the early train to the Bay Area I join the regulars in the Superliner up front. The dim light helps if you're trying to take a nap. But here's the thing... the California cars are capable of having the lights dimmed. I was once on a very delayed SJ (due to a freight derailment in Denair) and after 10:30pm the conductors dimmed the lights in every car so people could get some sleep.. people who didn't still had overhead reading lights. It would be nice if they had dim lighting hours on the early morning/late night runs.



Swadian Hardcore said:


> I ride the Greyhound too, their seats are more comfortable than the ones on California Cars. Plus, they have lots of fast and cheap service on LAD-SFD and LAD-SAC.
> It's cheaper to book RNO-SAC seperately, BTW.
> 
> But I'm not happy about Greyhound's large numbers of G4500 buses in California. I'm often fighting between a slow and expensive amtrak ride with transfers, or a confvenient Greyhound ride on a G4500. But at least it's better than a Megabus Van Hool.
> ...


I agree the new leather seats on the new Greyhound buses look nicer than the seats on the California cars (but I've never been on the 'hound). But the seats on these Comet IB coaches look nicer than the ones on the bus.

I just wish Caltrans could have a consistent quality for the buses between Bakersfield and SoCal...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 15, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> calwatch said:
> 
> 
> > I'm more concerned about the bright lighting at 5 am on the corridor cars. This is why when I travel ground between NorCal and SoCal I often opt for the bus - at least they turn off the lights at night. I often prefer riding in the refurbished Superliners on the San Joaquin because they have dimmer lighting than the California cars.
> ...


Problem is, California is packed with G4500 buses, which suck. So I consider California transport very poor. I like Greyhound, but not the G4500. I like Amtrak, but not the California Cars. I can ride a Comet IB, but I have to transfer for pretty much any useful trip.

From FRS, I imagine it's a bit better. From RNO (me), I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Look at this:

Amtrak to SF, $51, 8 hours 30 minutes (Superliner).

Amtrak California to SF, $61, requires transfer at SAC, about 6-9 hours. Bus connection varies, the California Car isn't comfortable.

Greyhound to SF, $10, 5 hours (G4500).

Megabus to SF, $1 (rare), mostly around $8, 4 hours 45 minuted (Van Hool TD925).

You see, I either waste loads of time and money on the regular Amtrak, deal with transfers and California Cars on Amtrak CA, deal with a G4500 on Greyhound, or suffer a Van Hool on Megabus.

Ah, I just hope Greyhound will refurbish those G4500s quick, but I still don't trust the refurbished G4500. Good old D Coach was way better back in BHM.

Edit: wrong prices


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## Agent (Aug 15, 2013)

The latest Comet coach out of the shop is now heading west on Amtrak #5(15). Looks like it's CDTX 5014 _Spirit of California_.


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## sechs (Sep 9, 2013)

Anyone who knows the plan... Will this single-level set be confined to the 712/717 loop?


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## rickycourtney (Sep 9, 2013)

Yes at first 712/717 turn will be the only trains to use the single-level trainset. That's because it starts the day in the Oakland yard and returns there at night. Other trainsets spend the night in Bakersfield or Sacramento.

That being said, there will eventually two single-level trainsets in use. Haven't heard yet what the second trainset will be used for.


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## calwatch (Sep 10, 2013)

Per the May SJVRC meeting, the other turn with the comet cars will be 718/711.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 19, 2013)

San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority has posted the agenda for it's next meeting on Friday, September 27th, 2013.

There are a couple of interesting tidbits in the Rolling Stock Update:



> "On August 1, there was a test run on the San Joaquin Rail Service that consisted of 4 older Amfleet Cars, 3 Comet Cars a Baggage Car and a Dining Car. This test run suffered severe delays. While most of the delays were due to mechanical problems prior to the trainset leaving Oakland (not attributed to the Comet Cars), there were also delays due to excessive dwell time for the manual door operation and passengers navigating steep, narrow stairs with luggage. Baggage loading was difficult as well."





> "Caltrans agreed the Comet Car trainsets will not include any Amfleet coaches."


Interesting that Caltrans doesn't want to use the Amfleet coaches... I guess they don't want to get this single-level trainset running THAT badly.



> "Caltrans provided SJJPA with the anticipated additional costs for the Comet Cars ($3.3 million annually)."


And to think... Indiana is balking at paying $3 million to keep the Hoosier State running.



> "Caltrans expects to run a test run of a Comet Car trainset on October 1, 2013."


It's worth mentioning... the SJJPA is not yet operating the San Joaquin trains. Board members have said while they want to see the San Joaquin grow... they aren't thrilled to be trading in the bi-level "California Cars" for the single-level "Comet Cars."


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## SubwayNut (Sep 19, 2013)

I still don't understand why they didn't keep the electric automatic doors the Comets already had built in that I'm almost sure these cars originally had before they replaced them with the dutch-doors. NJT has by far the best door operations of any railroad I've ridden that has stops at both high and low platforms, because one crew member can open all the end doors (middle ones that are only for high-levels don't open at low-level platforms. the Caltrain Comets aren't new enough to have this feature) Between a high-level stop and a low-level stop all the crew has to do is walk through the train raising and lowering the traps. NJT has had these doors for years. I recently took a rush hour (in the peak direction) MBTA trip from Boston to Wickford Junction (the last stop so these observations are from riding the train) but couldn't believe the number of staff the train had (like 6 or 7 since every door needs to be open by hand at all of the low-level platforms) and the length of our dwell times at each intermediate stop down the NEC.

The comets UTA bought for FrontRunner that run on the same trains with Bombardier BiLevels have combined MU doors so this is definitely possible.

Also, Can anyone tell me that all the platforms have the required mobile-lifts for operation of the Comet Cars (otherwise Amtrak would be violating the ADA). I now stations like Madera lacked them when I made a photo stop there a year and a half ago.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 19, 2013)

I was under the impression that the automatic doors these Comet IB coaches (former Arrow I EMU's) were very different than the automatic doors on the Comet I coaches owned by UTA. (I think only the top half of the dutch door was automatic.)

To answer your other question... Yes. All the stations now have small sheds to house the wheelchair lifts. They look the shed you have pictured on your Corcoran station page.

Also I got a tip that CDTX 5011 is making its way west from Chicago on 5(19). If anyone sees it... I'd love to know what they named the car.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 19, 2013)

With the loading and unloading problems on these cars, it might be better to run them on express service, stopping only at major stations. The expresses could stop only at Stockton and Fresno besides the endpoints, plus EMY for OAK trains.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 19, 2013)

Not gonna happen. These cars aren't for added service... They're for expanding the amount of seats on each run. They will replace the bi-level trainsets already in use.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 19, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Not gonna happen. These cars aren't for added service... They're for expanding the amount of seats on each run. They will replace the bi-level trainsets already in use.


That dosen't make sense. The bi-levels are newer, right? So where are they going to go?


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## afigg (Sep 19, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> That dosen't make sense. The bi-levels are newer, right? So where are they going to go?


The bi-levels or California cars are going to trains on the Capitol Corridor and Surfliner services to provide more capacity. Read back through this thread for the details.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 19, 2013)

afigg said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > That dosen't make sense. The bi-levels are newer, right? So where are they going to go?
> ...


Ah, sorry about that. I didn't read through the whole thread.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 20, 2013)

afigg said:


> The bi-levels or California cars are going to trains on the Capitol Corridor and Surfliner services to provide more capacity. Read back through this thread for the details.


Actually most of the bi-level California cars are staying on the San Joaquin, just redistributed to other trainsets. 
Right now there is 5 cars on a typical San Joaquin trainset. When the 712/717 trainset is switched over to single-level coaches... Each of its 4 coaches will be reassigned to the other trainsets... Making them 6 cars long. The dining cars will be reassigned to the Capitol Corridor. That will allow Caltrans to return 2 Superliner snack coaches that are being leased from Amtrak (and badly needed for national service.)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 22, 2013)

Guest said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> > I was under the impression that the automatic doors these Comet IB coaches (former Arrow I EMU's) were very different than the automatic doors on the Comet I coaches owned by UTA. (I think only the top half of the dutch door was automatic.)/quote]
> ...


Why not just make the trap automatic as well? The overhaul should have done that. Is it totally impossible?


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## MattW (Sep 23, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > rickycourtney said:
> ...


It's not a good idea, what if a passenger decides to stand on top of the trap? Or when closing, what if a passenger is under it?


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## jis (Sep 23, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> I was under the impression that the automatic doors these Comet IB coaches (former Arrow I EMU's) were very different than the automatic doors on the Comet I coaches owned by UTA. (I think only the top half of the dutch door was automatic.)


The UTA cars were the original Comet I cars which did not have full length doors all the way upto the roof line. They were incapable of operating from high level platforms and did not have traps.
So yes, the doors on Comet Is were very different from the Comarrows (Comet IBs) which were noit really Comet at all. The Comarrows were always capable of operating from both high and low level plaforms and had traps to enable that. And yes, on those only the door was only above the trap. You could not close the door with the trap up.


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## Jass (Sep 25, 2013)

MattW said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


How does San Franciscos Muni successfully do that every day, thousands of times a day?


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## roadman3313 (Sep 25, 2013)

Jass said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Swadian Hardcore said:
> ...


For those who are unfamiliar with the Breda Light Rail Vehicles, there are two stairs that are in the raised position for stations with high level platforms. The stairs are then automatically lowered and kept in the lowered position for the duration of the on-street operation with regular on-street stops.

The Breda LRV's are light rail vehicles are equipped for that type of automatic cycling as a built in feature as controlled by operator. The doors also span the whole height of the car and are fully controlled by the operator as well. They do have mechanical issues sometimes with the automation, however it generally does work as it was intended to.

If the traps are manually operated I'd say the doors should stay manually operated as well. If the traps were automatic then the doors could be automatic as well to be sure they are in sync with each other. Manual operation takes more time, however given the current set-up of the doors and traps it seems to be the most simple way to go without too much modification to the trap. If it were a single door that fully covered the trap then maybe automation could work.


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## Agent (Sep 28, 2013)

Amtrak #5(27) is currently heading to California with a Horizon dinette between the engines and the baggage car. I wasn't close enough to get the car's number. I think this is the third of three dinettes.


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## SPG (Sep 28, 2013)

Agent said:


> Amtrak #5(27) is currently heading to California with a Horizon dinette between the engines and the baggage car. I wasn't close enough to get the car's number. I think this is the third of three dinettes.


53509


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 28, 2013)

Are you sure that's a Horizon Dinette? It looks like a Comet in NJT paint.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 28, 2013)

Great catch Agent!

That's definitely a Horizon dinette. It has smooth sides unlike the Comet IB coaches that have fluted sides. The Amtrak California single level fleet has a livery that's a salute to NJT but uses CDTX's colors of blue and orange.

I thought this car was supposed to be AMTK 53505 "Pacific Horizon" (formally the City of San Luis Obispo).


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## battalion51 (Sep 28, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Are you sure that's a Horizon Dinette? It looks like a Comet in NJT paint.


The center of the car is also windowless, another sign of it being a Dinette since that's where the counter is.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2013)

Yep. That is a Horizon Dinette. It is definitely not a Comarrow


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 28, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Great catch Agent!
> 
> That's definitely a Horizon dinette. It has smooth sides unlike the Comet IB coaches that have fluted sides. The Amtrak California single level fleet has a livery that's a salute to NJT but uses CDTX's colors of blue and orange.
> 
> I thought this car was supposed to be AMTK 53505 "Pacific Horizon" (formally the City of San Luis Obispo).


Thanks, I got confused by the slanted logo on the side. If that car is a Horizon owned by CDTX, what train is it going to be used on? Alongside the Comet IBs?


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## jis (Sep 28, 2013)

They are Horizons on lease to CDTX AFAIK


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## rickycourtney (Sep 29, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Thanks, I got confused by the slanted logo on the side. If that car is a Horizon owned by CDTX, what train is it going to be used on? Alongside the Comet IBs?


If you read further up in this discussion...

Caltrans plans to have two single level consists running on the San Joaquin each consisting of 4 or 5 Comet IB coaches, a Horizon dinette (leased from Amtrak) and a NPCU/"Cabbage" (also leased from Amtrak).


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 29, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I got confused by the slanted logo on the side. If that car is a Horizon owned by CDTX, what train is it going to be used on? Alongside the Comet IBs?
> ...


Thanks, wouldn't it have been better to just convert some Comet IBs to Dinettes, the leases could lead to problems.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2013)

What problems? All this is mostly a stopgap measure anyway until the new corridor cars arrive.


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## rickycourtney (Sep 29, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Thanks, wouldn't it have been better to just convert some Comet IBs to Dinettes, the leases could lead to problems.


Possibly.

But to my knowledge these 3 Horizon dinettes and 3 NPCU's were sitting unused. Amtrak has no shortage of single-level food service cars (so much so that they've been converting them into coaches) and NPCU's. On the other hand there is a shortage of Superliner coaches. Leasing these units to Caltrans allows them to return some of Superliner coaches they're currently leasing from Amtrak.


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## sportbiker (Sep 29, 2013)

Seems like a lot of issues could have been avoided had Caltrans started with Metrolink's idle Bombardier bi-levels rather than Comets. They're newer coaches with dual automatic door sets on both sides, low loading and higher capacity.


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## battalion51 (Sep 29, 2013)

The challenge with starting with the Metrolink Bombardiers is they're not owned by CDOT, they're owned by SCRRA. Keep in mind when this whole adventure started the Metrolink Bombardiers were still in very active service. Additionally, the Bombardiers still wouldn't be compatible with the existing CDOT fleet since their passageway from one car to another is low, not high like the California cars. Granted some issues would have been moot like having automatic doors. They still would have likely gone with Horizon Food Service cars since converting a bi-level into a Food Service car would have been an extensive project to say the least.


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## Nathanael (Sep 29, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> But to my knowledge these 3 Horizon dinettes and 3 NPCU's were sitting unused. Amtrak has no shortage of single-level food service cars (so much so that they've been converting them into coaches) and NPCU's.


In the "old days", I have been told that Amtrak -- and the private railroads before them -- ran *far* more food service cars per train; now we seem to be fine with a ratio of something like 6 coaches to 1 cafe car, but back in the 70s I was told that Amtrak might have run 2 cafe cars for such a train. The result is that Amtrak's previous car orders left them with far more cafe cars than are needed for modern services.


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## rickycourtney (Oct 2, 2013)

Caltrans had the second test run of the Comet IB coaches on October 1st.

This intrepid journalist booked a short trip... and posted a travelogue here.

Hope you enjoy!


----------



## Fan Railer (Oct 9, 2013)

A slight off shoot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Ww5-WjtIg

Did my best in two hours time, what do you think?


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## jis (Oct 9, 2013)

Comet 1Bs do not have smooth side like the real Comets. They have ribbed sides like the Jersey Arrow EMU cars, since they are actually demotored Arrow Is.

And of course as Swadian says they have the typical rounded end windows of Arrows too.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 9, 2013)

Don't they also have curves at the ends of the passenger windows? They're not rectangular, more like oval. The Horizon is good I must say, but the second car is not great.


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## Fan Railer (Oct 9, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Don't they also have curves at the ends of the passenger windows? They're not rectangular, more like oval. The Horizon is good I must say, but the second car is not great.


Lol I should have mentioned that I used the same template car for the Comet IB, but it's only an initial version.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 10, 2013)

Fan Railer said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Don't they also have curves at the ends of the passenger windows? They're not rectangular, more like oval. The Horizon is good I must say, but the second car is not great.
> ...


It shouldn't be too hard to change, the side windows are almost geometrical rectangles, if you can just edit one window by dragging the sides outwards into an ourwards circle then cut the middle, you should be able to duplicate that and finish the railcar for the simulator. I would wish this to be on Railworks instead of OpenBVE.


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## Fan Railer (Oct 10, 2013)

Done. However, the windows for the Comet IB in this initial release will have to remain in their current state. I'll probably get around to fixing them some time tomorrow.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/51c3c66go14qgy6/Caltrans+Amtrak+California+P42DC+with+F40PH+NPCU.rar


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## rickycourtney (Oct 19, 2013)

A reliable source says that the Comet car trainset will officially go into service on trains 711/718 starting October 21st.


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## SubwayNut (Oct 19, 2013)

Amtrak has issued this service advisory San Joaquin Trains 711 and 718: Operate with Refurbished Equipment:



> San Joaquin Trains 711 and 718: Operate with Refurbished Equipment
> Effective October 21, 2013To provide added capacity aboard the San Joaquin service, Trains 711 and 718 will operate with refurbished single level Comet cars, effective October 21, 2013. Comet cars offer a comfortable ride and more leg room than the bi-level California cars that will continue to operate on other San Joaquin trains. Passengers traveling on Trains 711 and 718 should be aware of the following:
> 
> Passengers with Limited MobilityThere are steps leading to the entrance of the Comet car on Trains 711 and 718. Passengers who need assistance should call Amtrak, or speak with an employee at the station or on board the train. Passengers who need assistance boarding the train should arrive 45 minutes prior to train departure.
> ...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 19, 2013)

Indeed, those California Cars were not very comfortable when I rode them. Hopefully the Comets will be better. Does nayone know the seat manufacturers of the California Car and the refurbished Comets?


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## Fan Railer (Oct 19, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Indeed, those California Cars were not very comfortable when I rode them. Hopefully the Comets will be better. Does nayone know the seat manufacturers of the California Car and the refurbished Comets?


not sure about the california cars, but i hear that they don't recline... the seats on the refurbed comets will be the same ones found in the amfleet 2, iirc.


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## X (Oct 19, 2013)

Fan Railer said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, those California Cars were not very comfortable when I rode them. Hopefully the Comets will be better. Does nayone know the seat manufacturers of the California Car and the refurbished Comets?
> ...


Correct.


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## rickycourtney (Oct 20, 2013)

The seats are more like the seats used on the Amfleet I cars and the Superliner I cars that were refurbished for Caltrans a few years ago. They have a pretty generous recline but no legrest or footrest.

Here are some pictures I took earlier this month:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 20, 2013)

Nice pics, Ricky! They're a bit too big to fit but that's no big deal. Those Comets look comfortable, I like those rounded windows. They need these same seats in the California Cars, if not for the quite-poor lumbar support. I would still like to know what company made these seats.


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## X (Oct 20, 2013)

http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?

I can assure you that the seats are 100% Amtrak standard long distance seats, I'm told they're straight out of the Amfleet IIs, and similar to the Superliner / Amfleet I seats, except they don't rotate or have the calf rest.


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## rickycourtney (Oct 20, 2013)

X said:


> http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?
> 
> I can assure you that the seats are 100% Amtrak standard long distance seats, I'm told they're straight out of the Amfleet IIs, and similar to the Superliner / Amfleet I seats, except they don't rotate or have the calf rest.


Mr. X-

You're right. They're very similar.

It's Amtrak's standard short haul seat, which unlike the long haul seats don't have the calf rests or foot rests. Other than that they're very similar and do have a very generous recline.

In my opinion they're a lot more comfortable than the seats on the California cars and Surfliner cars.


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## Blackwolf (Oct 20, 2013)

X said:


> http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?
> 
> I can assure you that the seats are 100% Amtrak standard long distance seats, I'm told they're straight out of the Amfleet IIs, and similar to the Superliner / Amfleet I seats, except they don't rotate or have the calf rest.


And now we know who made/makes Amtrak's seats, including those much-loved leather ex-Metroliner Business Class seats that most people simply assume cannot be made any longer. The seats are featured on the KSU website. I have no idea what these products cost a company like Amtrak to be manufactured, but it certainly proves that Amtrak must have a supply stream available and is not only recycling the stock they may have sitting in a warehouse.


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## sportbiker (Oct 20, 2013)

battalion51 said:


> The challenge with starting with the Metrolink Bombardiers is they're not owned by CDOT, they're owned by SCRRA. Keep in mind when this whole adventure started the Metrolink Bombardiers were still in very active service. Additionally, the Bombardiers still wouldn't be compatible with the existing CDOT fleet since their passageway from one car to another is low, not high like the California cars. Granted some issues would have been moot like having automatic doors. They still would have likely gone with Horizon Food Service cars since converting a bi-level into a Food Service car would have been an extensive project to say the least.


The challenge with starting with the NJT Comets is they're not owned by CDOT, they're owned by NJT. Additionally, the Comets still wouldn't be compatible with the existing CDOT fleet since their passageway from one car to another is low, not high like the California cars. Granted some issues would remain like not having automatic doors. They still would have likely gone with Horizon Food Service cars since converting a Comet into a Food Service car would have been an extensive project to say the least.


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## sportbiker (Oct 20, 2013)

Fan Railer said:


> not sure about the california cars, but i hear that they don't recline... the seats on the refurbed comets will be the same ones found in the amfleet 2, iirc.


California Car seats recline in a way similar to a Superliner bedroom couch: reach under the center of the seat and pull the lever. The bottom cushion will slide forward a few inches and the lower end of the back cushion will pivot forward to match. The seat frame doesn't move.


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## X (Oct 20, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> X said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?
> ...


Whoops, short haul seats, yes, that was it!


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## X (Oct 20, 2013)

sportbiker said:


> Fan Railer said:
> 
> 
> > not sure about the california cars, but i hear that they don't recline... the seats on the refurbed comets will be the same ones found in the amfleet 2, iirc.
> ...


California Car (8000 series) seats do NOT recline or slide, period. There is a pull cord under the seat cushion, but it's for removing the cushion only.

Surfliners (6xxx) have two different types of seats, Amtrak owned cars have seats that recline, while Caltrans owned cars (6x5x SoCal, 6x6x NorCal) have the seat where you pull the red handle and the seat cushion slides out.


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## battalion51 (Oct 20, 2013)

sportbiker said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > The challenge with starting with the Metrolink Bombardiers is they're not owned by CDOT, they're owned by SCRRA. Keep in mind when this whole adventure started the Metrolink Bombardiers were still in very active service. Additionally, the Bombardiers still wouldn't be compatible with the existing CDOT fleet since their passageway from one car to another is low, not high like the California cars. Granted some issues would have been moot like having automatic doors. They still would have likely gone with Horizon Food Service cars since converting a bi-level into a Food Service car would have been an extensive project to say the least.
> ...


I don't think you quite followed my point. Someone was suggesting they should have converted Metrolink Bombardiers instead of the Comets. My comments were regarding converting the Bombardiers, not the Comets.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 21, 2013)

X said:


> http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?
> 
> I can assure you that the seats are 100% Amtrak standard long distance seats, I'm told they're straight out of the Amfleet IIs, and similar to the Superliner / Amfleet I seats, except they don't rotate or have the calf rest.


I dug up an old thread that says the Amtrak LD Coach seats are made by ASI. The Sleeper seats may be Kustom Seating, but I'm not sure about the coach seats.

Is there a seating company known as ASI? If so, what does ASI stand for?


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## Agent (Oct 21, 2013)

This video from October 19 was just uploaded and shows Amtrak #5(19) with cab/baggage car 90215. This train arrived in California today.


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## rickycourtney (Oct 21, 2013)

Agent said:


> This video from October 19 was just uploaded and shows Amtrak #5(19) with cab/baggage car 90215. This train arrived in California today.


I couldn't read the text on the side clearly... But I'm guessing AMTK 90215 was named Bakersfield.


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## rickycourtney (Oct 21, 2013)

So does anyone know why Caltrans decided to operate the single level trainset on 711/718 instead of 712/717?

I thought they wanted it to be overnighting in Oakland... This turn will have the trainset overnighting in Bakersfield (although it will spend most of the daylight hours in Oakland (11am-5:50pm).


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## X (Oct 21, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> X said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.kustomseating.com/ maybe?
> ...


I suspect that poster meant A*M*I.

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Vintage-Railroad/14655704_xRs6bD#!i=1936463204&k=HQBQX29

Confusingly a company named Multina, formerly known as AMI USA Inc, made the original Surfliner seats, I'm not sure if they were the same company.

And yet another now gone company that made Amtrak seats was Coach & Car.


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## X (Oct 21, 2013)

Wow, smugmug is a real PITA to link to...

Hopefully this works:

http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains/Vintage-Railroad/i-HQBQX29/0/X3/1976%20AMI%20Amtrak%2016-X3.jpg


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## R30A (Oct 21, 2013)

The 481 series AmClub seats are new from their recent rebuild.(As are the Horizon club seats) Kustom seats also built the new seats which a number of Superliners received.

I highly suspect that the seats taken out of the Superliners (Most of which are identical to Amfleet 2s) are the ones which were installed on the California Comets and Amfleet Cafe to Coach conversions. I have not seen any Amfleet 2 cars with the new seat frames, so outside of wrecks, I doubt any gave them up. (I would also be very unsurprised if some of these frames are from the Heritage LD cars converted for baggage.)


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## sportbiker (Oct 21, 2013)

battalion51 said:


> sportbiker said:
> 
> 
> > battalion51 said:
> ...


I followed it exactly. I was demonstrating that your reasons for dismissing the bi-levels apply equally to the Comets.


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## Agent (Oct 25, 2013)

Here's a video of the first run of a single-level set on #718.


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## Agent (Oct 29, 2013)

Another Comet coach is on Amtrak #5(28). This train is currently heading west through Colorado.


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## roadman3313 (Nov 13, 2013)

Has the set been out of service recently or just out of service on weekends? I have seen a standard bi-level set in the 718/711 slot the past few days and various Comet/Horizon/NPCU's around the yard...


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## rickycourtney (Nov 13, 2013)

roadman3313 said:


> Has the set been out of service recently or just out of service on weekends? I have seen a standard bi-level set in the 718/711 slot the past few days and various Comet/Horizon/NPCU's around the yard...


I haven't heard that it was placed out of service. There was a incident on Sunday that delayed 711 by over two hours... but Amtrak blamed "freight interference" for that.

Right now there should be 1 or 2 Comet IB coaches, 2 Horizon Dinettes and 2 NPCU's sitting in the yard.


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## daniel3197 (Nov 13, 2013)

A different railfan discussion board reported that the Comet Cars for the San Joaquins were taken

OUT of service because of some sort of PA address system issue in the cars.

This defective PA system issue was said to be a major FRA violation of sorts (FRA== Federal Railroad Administration).

I am just relaying what I read elsewhere and I do NOT have any direct knowledge of this issue myself.

That would be a good POSSIBLE explanation on why this set is out of service.

---- Daniel


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## roadman3313 (Nov 14, 2013)

That would make sense as to why a bi-level was being used and why cars still have not been re-distributed yet on that and the CC.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 14, 2013)

What's interesting is that the original NJ Transit PA system was replaced by the Amtrak standard PA system used on the Horizon cars... So that part of the Comet cars is brand new.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 14, 2013)

So according to a report on Trainorders the reason the single-level trainsets are out of service are because of problems with the 3 Horizon dinette (café) cars. Apparently one car has a broken air conditioning system, one has a broken refrigeration system and the other car has a leak that allows water into the electrical cabinet.

My guess is that the parts needed to fix the problems with the cars are being shuttled out to Oakland from either the Chicago shops or the Beech Grove shops on the CZ. That obviously takes a few days.

According to the poster... there were indeed problems with the PA systems... but those have since been resolved.


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## ACS-64 (Nov 14, 2013)

Single level set is back today on #718, with NPCU 90215 leading, and therefore will be on #711 tomorrow.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 14, 2013)

I've never seen NPCU 90215 out on the road. Did you happen to catch its name?


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## rickycourtney (Nov 21, 2013)

So Caltrans and Amtrak are making good progress on the Comet car project. All the dinette cars and NPCU's have been delivered and the Comet cars are more than halfway there.

Here's my roster:


> *Comet IB Coach*
> Delivery Number Name Notes
> 5001
> 5002
> ...


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## ACS-64 (Nov 22, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> I've never seen NPCU 90215 out on the road. Did you happen to catch its name?


While not an inclusive list, here are what's been leading 718 lately.

90215:

November 10, 14-18

90218:

November 19-22


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## rickycourtney (Nov 22, 2013)

ACS-64 said:


> 90218:
> 
> November 19-22


ACS-64-

Do you know for sure that 90218 is in the consist tonight? There's some one on Trainorders who swears it's 90215.


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## ACS-64 (Nov 23, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> ACS-64 said:
> 
> 
> > 90218:
> ...


90215 is shopped with a roll up door issue.


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## rickycourtney (Nov 23, 2013)

ACS-64 said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> > ACS-64 said:
> ...


Thank you much!


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## CHamilton (Dec 1, 2013)

http://youtu.be/RpktS6Xl0hA




> Extra Long San Joaquin with 7 Comet Cars plus Dinette near Martinez, Nov 30 2013
> Thanksgiving brought a lot of extra passengers to Amtrak California, so some trains were lengthened. This San Joaquin, Train 712 (Oakland to Bakersfield), features 7 of the rebuilt Comet Cars from New Jersey along with its Horizon dinette car and non-powered cab unit 90225 (formerly an F40PH locomotive).


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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2013)

nice =)


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## Agent (Dec 1, 2013)

Here's another video of the extra-long Comet train that shows just a bit of what they do at a station stop.


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## rickycourtney (Dec 2, 2013)

I had some fun this morning and went out to take a video of the single-level San Joaquin trainset. I don't normally get to see the Comet cars in use because I'm at work when 718 rolls through town and asleep when 711 passes by. But this week the single-level equipment was placed on 712/717 for the thanksgiving rush. I was also hoping to capture the extra-long consist shown above... but alas it appears the extra 2 cars were pulled off last night.

PS: I have always wanted to take a low-level video of an Amtrak train shooting across the BNSF's bridge over the San Joaquin River and I have to say the results were even better than I expected! The train rolling across the metal bridge creates a very cool sound much like a plane taking off... which is fitting considering how high off the ground this train is.


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## jimhudson (Dec 2, 2013)

Nice Video! Thanks for Posting!


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## roadman3313 (Dec 10, 2013)

Interesting consist today on 718...

Pulling into OKJ from the yard to start the run California F59PHI Locomotive 2002 was on point followed by Superliner Coach/Café 35005 and California Café 8809... they were followed by California F59PHI Locomotive 2013 and then the normal Comet/Horizon/NPCU set. It was interesting to see the normal consist and locomotive with a California Café and Superliner Coach/Café sandwiched between two locomotives.

I assume the Superliner and California car were getting dropped somewhere or enroute to Bakersfield as extra cars/replacement??

NPCU was on the head end departing OKJ with the Locomotive, two café cars, and other Locomotive bringing up the rear.


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## rickycourtney (Dec 10, 2013)

That is a very strange consist. The Superliner Coach/Café cars are rarely used on the San Joaquin. The only time I've been on one was during the thanksgiving holiday rush when it was used to extend the San Joaquin consist (the lower-level café was closed.)

I also noticed that the Horizon Dinette's have the CDTX reporting mark under the car number. That would suggest that these cars are owned by the California Department of Transportation and not Amtrak. I thought the plan was for Amtrak to lease the Horizon cars, not sell them.


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## roadman3313 (Dec 11, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> That is a very strange consist. The Superliner Coach/Café cars are rarely used on the San Joaquin. The only time I've been on one was during the thanksgiving holiday rush when it was used to extend the San Joaquin consist (the lower-level café was closed.)
> 
> I also noticed that the Horizon Dinette's have the CDTX reporting mark under the car number. That would suggest that these cars are owned by the California Department of Transportation and not Amtrak. I thought the plan was for Amtrak to lease the Horizon cars, not sell them.


It was a bit puzzling to see. The Superliner Coach/Cafe and California Cafe were both had the lights off and were out of service as they were separated from the normal consist. It was just funny to see them attached to the nose of a locomotive!


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## Nathanael (Dec 11, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> I thought the plan was for Amtrak to lease the Horizon cars, not sell them.


Long-term lessees often apply their own reporting marks. The reporting marks relate to "who do we have to talk to" in case the car gets damaged or misplaced, or turns out to be defective. In most leases of this sort, the lessee is entirely responsible until the lease expires. From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):



> A reporting mark is an alphabetic code of one to five letters used to identify owners *or lessees* of rolling stock and other equipment used on certain railroad networks.


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## battalion51 (Dec 11, 2013)

The application of the reporting marks is pretty normal. IIRC CSX's 20 SD70ACes are leased, but you wouldn't know it by looking at them. When VRE had their lease on the two Sounder sets they didn't get a full paint job, but they had VRE lettering and numbering on them. Even the airlines apply their paint and numbering to planes that they lease, Delta's lease of Southwest/AirTrans Boeing 717s comes to mind.


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## rickycourtney (Dec 11, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> > I thought the plan was for Amtrak to lease the Horizon cars, not sell them.
> ...


Thanks for the info Nathanael.

I learn something new everyday.


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## ACS-64 (Dec 12, 2013)

5005 should be on today's CZ #5 out of Chicago.


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## Agent (Dec 13, 2013)

ACS-64 said:


> 5005 should be on today's CZ #5 out of Chicago.


Thank you for your report.

I went out and caught this _California Zephyr_ at Agency, Iowa last night, which turned out to be after it went into emergency due to a separated air hose just two and half miles from town. You can hear the engineer talking to the BNSF Dispatcher about it at the beginning of the video. Hopefully unrelated to having the Comet coach in the consist.

You can also hear a defect detector report #5 with 45 axles. Hmmm.

It looks like the lights in the coach work at least.


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## ACS-64 (Dec 25, 2013)

5001 should be on a CZ #5 out of Chicago soon, showed up in CHI today off #851

90225 has been the NPCU working #718/#711 as of late.


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## CHamilton (Jan 2, 2014)

I am at Martinez tonight, doing a quick points run before hopping on CS 14 for the trip back to Seattle. Got to see 718 with the Comet consist briefly, but I didn't get pictures. The paint job looked nice, but it sure looked like a major climb from the platform.


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## Fan Railer (Jan 3, 2014)

CHamilton said:


> I am at Martinez tonight, doing a quick points run before hopping on CS 14 for the trip back to Seattle. Got to see 718 with the Comet consist briefly, but I didn't get pictures. The paint job looked nice, but it sure looked like a major climb from the platform.


The "climb" was what railroading was about back in the days


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## Agent (Mar 4, 2014)

It's been reported here that Amtrak #5(04) left Chicago today with another Comet coach.


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Mar 4, 2014)

battalion51 said:


> The application of the reporting marks is pretty normal. IIRC CSX's 20 SD70ACes are leased, but you wouldn't know it by looking at them. When VRE had their lease on the two Sounder sets they didn't get a full paint job, but they had VRE lettering and numbering on them. Even the airlines apply their paint and numbering to planes that they lease, Delta's lease of Southwest/AirTrans Boeing 717s comes to mind.


I'm pretty sure Delta bought them from Southwest outright.


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## Trogdor (Mar 5, 2014)

NorthCoastHiawatha said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > The application of the reporting marks is pretty normal. IIRC CSX's 20 SD70ACes are leased, but you wouldn't know it by looking at them. When VRE had their lease on the two Sounder sets they didn't get a full paint job, but they had VRE lettering and numbering on them. Even the airlines apply their paint and numbering to planes that they lease, Delta's lease of Southwest/AirTrans Boeing 717s comes to mind.
> ...


No, Delta is actually subleasing them from Southwest, who is leasing them from Boeing.

Interestingly enough, they are not changing the aircraft registration, so they are keeping the N9**AT registration series from their AirTran days.


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## rickycourtney (Mar 5, 2014)

So with this delivery... 13 of the 14 Comet IB coaches have been delivered.

The Caltrans Department of Rail has said that when all the coaches are delivered a second San Joaquin round trip will be converted to the single-level equipment (likely 712/717).

This means that the other San Joaquin trainsets will be able to gain another coach car and the Capitol Corridor will be able to replace the Superliner I snack coaches with California Car cafe cars.

I'm not positive about this... but I also think that with the two single-level trainsets in service there will be enough bi-level coaches available... that Amtrak California will be able to return the 4 wreck-repaired Superliner I coaches it has been leasing for the past 6 or so years. So there will be a few more coaches available for the long distance trains.


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## battalion51 (Mar 5, 2014)

I believe CalDOT has the Superliner I's on lease until the end 2015. I'd be fairly surprised if they were returned before the lease is up, if they're not negotiating an extension...


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## rickycourtney (Mar 5, 2014)

I was under the impression that Caltrans leased the Superliner I coaches for 6 years. They were delivered between July 2007 and July 2009. I assume that means the leases expires between July 2013 and July 2015 (unless the clock didn't start until the final coach was delivered.)


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## rickycourtney (Apr 16, 2014)

So according to spotters over on Trainorders it appears that there are now 2 Comet car trainsets in use... and they're now both being used on the 714/703/702/715 turn. That means that on day one the train runs OKJ-BFD in the AM and BFD-SAC in the PM, on day two the train runs SAC-BFD in the AM and BFD-OKJ in the PM. Since it's a two day long turn it means that both trainsets will be needed.


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## Agent (Apr 26, 2014)

Amtrak #5(26) was spotted leaving Chicago with a Comet coach. This is the last one right?


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## Agent (Apr 27, 2014)

The westbound _California Zephyr_ came through Agency, Iowa slowly this afternoon. The name of this Comet coach is _The Lark_. Looks like a door was left open.


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## rickycourtney (Apr 27, 2014)

Yup. 5003 is the last Comet IB coach to be delivered.


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## rickycourtney (Apr 27, 2014)

In case anyone is interested... here is my roster for the Comet IB coaches, Horizon dinettes and NPCU's:

*Comet IB Coach*
Number Delivery Name  Notes
5001  12/ /13 “The Comet” (former NJTR 5155)
5002  02/ /14 “The Meteor” (former NJTR 5158)

5003  04/27/14 “The Lark”
5004  03/06/14 “The Owl”
5005  12/14/13 “The Senator” (former NJTR 5162)
5006  11/ /13 “The El Dorado” (former NJTR 5163)
5007  07/10/13 “The Del Monte” (former NJTR 5164)
5008  04/03/13 “The Redwood” (former NJTR 5165)
5009  10/ /13 “The Valley Flyer” (former NJTR 5166)
5010  01/ /14 “The Golden Gate” (former NJTR 5158)
5011  09/21/13 “San Diegan” (former NJTR 5168)
5012  10/ /13 “The Feather River Express” (former NJTR 5169)
5013  05/25/13 “The Citrus Belt Limited” (former NJTR 5224)
5014  08/17/13 “The Spirit of California” (former NJTR 5230)

*Non-Powered Control Unit*
Number Delivery Name  Notes
90215 10/20/13 “Bakersfield”

90218  03/04/13 “Oakland”
90225  06/27/13 “Sacramento” (Damaged in collision with a truck on 03/22/14. Being repaired at Beech Grove.)

*Horizon Dinette*

Number Delivery Name  Notes
53501 07/17/13 “Golden Horizon”

53509 09/29/13 “Pacific Horizon”
53510 05/25/13 “Western Horizon” (name according to OTOL, but lettering has not yet been applied)


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## ACS-64 (May 11, 2014)

90229 is said to be headed West today on 5(11) suspected to be filling in for the wrecked 90225. 90229 was just overhauled.(Phase V paint??)


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## Agent (May 7, 2018)

I think this goes in this thread. I caught the eastbound _California Zephyr_ that is due into Chicago today at Agency, Iowa with four Comet IB coaches behind the engines. The coaches were CDTX 5007, 5013, 5009, 5014. #6(05) had a nice engineer too.


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## cpotisch (May 7, 2018)

Anyone have any idea what they're doing or where they're going?


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## Seaboard92 (May 7, 2018)

If I make any bets it's Beech Grove.


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## Agent (May 8, 2018)

Three more Comets are on Amtrak #6(06). These ones are CDTX 5008, 5012, and 5011.


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## cpotisch (May 8, 2018)

It's the mass exodus of the Comets! Damn it, now I won't be able to sleep until I make a _March of the Penguins_ spoof about some old Bombardiers.


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## Trogdor (May 8, 2018)

Have these been withdrawn from service? Whats replacing them, given that the Siemens cars wont be around for a while yet?


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## Thirdrail7 (May 8, 2018)

They are headed to Pueblo for testing.


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## Agent (May 19, 2018)

Looks like testing is over as four Comet coaches are heading back west on Amtrak #5(19). These four are CDTX 5012, 5008, 5011, and 5007. I'm guessing the remaining three will be following soon. This train was only two minutes late at Agency, Iowa.


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## Agent (May 20, 2018)

Three more are returning home on Amtrak #5(20). The first one is CDTX 5013. I'm guessing the other two are 5009 and 5014.


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## cpotisch (May 21, 2018)

So do the Caltrans Comets only operate on the NorCal routes, since I'm pretty sure all the videos I've seen of them deadheading are on the CZ?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (May 21, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> So do the Caltrans Comets only operate on the NorCal routes, since I'm pretty sure all the videos I've seen of them deadheading are on the CZ?


They typically operate on the San Joaquins.


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## Blackwolf (May 21, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> So do the Caltrans Comets only operate on the NorCal routes, since I'm pretty sure all the videos I've seen of them deadheading are on the CZ?


They're based out of Oakland, but operate exclusively on the San Joaquins.


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## desertflyer (May 23, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> They are headed to Pueblo for testing.


I know very little about what happens in Pueblo, but I'm interested in learning more. What type of testing would happen with cars in Pueblo?

Edit: Someone else told me PTC brake testing. Makes sense when combined with the reply from john small berries below. Thank you.


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## john small berries (May 23, 2018)

desertflyer said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > They are headed to Pueblo for testing.
> ...


The Transportation Technology Center is there. Test tracks, test facilities, etc.

http://www.aar.com/


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## KmH (May 23, 2018)

Transportation Technology Center

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Technology_Center,_Inc.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Transportation+Technology+Center/@38.4307393,-104.3334332,8754m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8713000001e416e7:0x8935dd855aede4ca!8m2!3d38.4342429!4d-104.2860055


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## desertflyer (Nov 13, 2018)

Does anyone know which San Joaquins are typically operated with the Comets? I had them on train 717 back in mid-September, but would be curious if anyone knew more.


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## jamess (Nov 14, 2018)

desertflyer said:


> Does anyone know which San Joaquins are typically operated with the Comets? I had them on train 717 back in mid-September, but would be curious if anyone knew more.


Used to be the first and last trip of the day, but I am not sure if that changed this year because the schedule has shuffled around every 3 months


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## Trogdor (Nov 15, 2018)

desertflyer said:


> Does anyone know which San Joaquins are typically operated with the Comets? I had them on train 717 back in mid-September, but would be curious if anyone knew more.


When I asked an insider friend back in June, he said 710/717, and 711/716 were their usual turns.  Don't know if that's changed since then.


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