# Concealed Carry



## erie (Mar 5, 2017)

Is it legal to carry a concealed weapon on a train....??


----------



## Steve4031 (Mar 5, 2017)

Check under amtraks checked luggage policy. Iirc there are instructions for how to pack and ship guns. There might be a paragraph addressing conceal and carry.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 5, 2017)

In short, "no".


----------



## Triley (Mar 5, 2017)

Reviewing my manual, absolutely not. If a gun is spotted onboard in the possession of someone other than an on duty officer, police will be called without your knowledge, and you and/or your gun will be removed from the train.


----------



## chakk (Mar 5, 2017)

Even if you are a college student traveling on the Texas Eagle with one of your professors and he starts reciting from his lecture notes as you approach San Antonio, you may not have in your possession a concealed carry.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 5, 2017)

Triley said:


> Reviewing my manual, absolutely not. If a gun is spotted onboard in the possession of someone other than an on duty officer, police will be called without your knowledge, and you and/or your gun will be removed from the train.


Should this be reported to the Conductor or to the nearest staff member of any position?


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

Keep it locked in a carry case, not on your hip.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 5, 2017)

Locked in a case in the baggage car, even. Not allowed as carry on, regardless of locked cases or not.


----------



## niemi24s (Mar 5, 2017)

If you were to spot someone illegally carrying a weapon on his/her person and reported it to a member of the OBS, what are the chances you'd_ also_ be taken off the train as a witness?


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

Interesting. I thought you could you could carry a weapon on the train as long as it was locked up. I was wrong. My mistake. In the future, I will fly instead.



Ryan said:


> Locked in a case in the baggage car, even. Not allowed as carry on, regardless of locked cases or not.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 5, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> If you were to spot someone illegally carrying a weapon on his/her person and reported it to a member of the OBS, what are the chances you'd_ also_ be taken off the train as a witness?


Nearly nonexistent?


----------



## SP&S (Mar 5, 2017)

Ziv said:


> Interesting. I thought you could you could carry a weapon on the train as long as it was locked up. I was wrong. My mistake. In the future, I will fly instead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why would this make you fly. All airlines I know of require firearms to be unloaded, in a locked case, in checked baggage. In addition you may have to declare their presence at check in time and the bag may be tagged to indicate their presence. That's very similar to Amtrak's policy.


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

Unloaded? Really? That is some important NEW criteria you have just heard of?

Airlines just ask me to lock my weapon in a case, check it, and I get it back as soon as I land. Amtrak used to have an advantage in my eyes, I just carried it on, locked up in my carry on luggage. Now it does not.

I travel to Montana fairly frequently, I hike a good bit. I want a handgun when I am in grizzly territory. Amtrak is making airlines more attractive by making it more irritating to pack a handgun on Amtrak. The sad part is that Amtrak is discouraging legal carry while doing little or nothing to discourage illegal carry.



SP&S said:


> Ziv said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I thought you could you could carry a weapon on the train as long as it was locked up. I was wrong. My mistake. In the future, I will fly instead.
> ...


----------



## PVD (Mar 5, 2017)

Firearms and Ammunitions

Allowance 
Rifle
Shotgun
Handgun
Starter Pistol
BB Gun
Compressed Air Gun (including paintball marker)
Ammunition
 Requirements 
Amtrak accepts reservations of firearms and ammunition for carriage between Amtrak stations and on Amtrak trains within the United States that offer checked baggage service. Thruway Bus Services are not included. The following policies are in effect:


Notification that the passenger will be checking firearms/ammunition must be made no later than 24 hours before train departure by calling Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL. Online reservations for firearms/ammunition are not accepted.
The passengers must travel on the same train that is transporting the checked firearms and/or ammunition.
All firearms and/or ammunition must be checked at least 30 minutes prior to scheduled train departure. Some larger stations require that baggage be checked earlier. Please contact your departure station for more details.
All firearms (rifles, shotguns, handguns, starter pistols) must be unloaded and in an approved, locked hard-sided container not exceeding 62" L x 17" W x 7" D (1575 mm x 432 mm x 178 mm). The passenger must have sole possession of the key or the combination for the lock to the container. The weight of the container may not exceed 50 lbs./23 kg.
Smaller locked, hard-sided containers containing smaller unloaded firearms such as handguns and starter pistols must be securely stored within a suitcase or other item of checked baggage, but the existence of such a firearm must be declared.
All ammunition carried must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's container; in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or in other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The maximum weight of all ammunition and containers may not exceed 11 lbs./5 kg.
The passenger is responsible for knowing and following all federal, state, and local firearm laws at all jurisdictions to and through which he or she will be traveling.
All other Amtrak checked baggage policies apply, including limits on the number of pieces of checked baggage, the maximum weight of each piece (50 lbs./23 kg).
Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage; therefore, checked baggage must be available on all trains and at all stations in the passenger's itinerary.
At the time of check-in, passengers will be required to complete and sign a two-part Declaration Form.
BB guns and Compressed Air Guns (to include paintball markers), are to be treated as firearms and must comply with the above firearms policy. Canisters, tanks, or other devices containing propellants must be emptied prior to checking and securely packaged within the contents of the passenger's luggage.


Funny how many folks walk through checkpoints at the airport with guns. Then they claim they forgot they had it in their bag or on their person. What good will a gun do for protection if you are too stupid to remember you have it?


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

PVD, that actually sounds more like normal carry procedures. Lock it up, warn the transit personnel, grab it when you get to your destination. No one knows or cares that you carry. I really don't want you to know that I have a weapon. And most of the people that carry weapons around you, do so without you knowing that they have a weapon.

And on edit:

I am a sarcastic sort, and my comment, "Unloaded? Really? This is some NEW criteria..." was intended to be the ultimate in sarcasm, i.e. who would carry on a loaded weapon? And my sarcasm completely failed.

Common sense should be a minimum. In this case, I assumed a bridge too far.

Obviously, this discussion proves that common sense is something to be strived for, not assumed.


----------



## SP&S (Mar 5, 2017)

United and Delta require them to be unloaded per their websites. Alaska the same per personal experience. Gate agents (who may or may not be knowledgeable regarding weapons) may have not been enforcing the letter of the policy, but in these cases it does exist.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 5, 2017)

Ziv said:


> Unloaded? Really? That is some important NEW criteria you have just heard of? Airlines just ask me to lock my weapon in a case, check it, and I get it back as soon as I land. Amtrak used to have an advantage in my eyes, I just carried it on, locked up in my carry on luggage. Now it does not. I travel to Montana fairly frequently, I hike a good bit. I want a handgun when I am in grizzly territory. Amtrak is making airlines more attractive by making it more irritating to pack a handgun on Amtrak. The sad part is that Amtrak is discouraging legal carry while doing little or nothing to discourage illegal carry.


Perhaps Amtrak should have done more to stop you from illegally carrying handguns where they were not allowed. Even here in pro-gun Texas private businesses still have the right to refuse access to people who try to bring handguns onto their property. And for good reason. We're home to millions of George Zimmerman wannabes. If you return to the airlines I know I'll feel safer not having to risk encountering you on a day you happen to get fired or demoted or dumped or your house is foreclosed or you get drunk or start a fight or any of the other random everyday things that seem to turn perfectly legal gun owners into casual murderers.


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

Dude, I check my weapon when I travel. It isn't rocket science. I follow the law of the land. I don't want you to know I carry. And you won't know that I do carry, if I do my job right. Airlines work with me to keep it mellow. I lock it up, warn them and check it. I don't want anyone to worry, I just want to get to where I am going and continue to exercise my right to bear arms. And again, I would just as soon you don't know I am doing so.



Devil's Advocate said:


> Ziv said:
> 
> 
> > Unloaded? Really? That is some important NEW criteria you have just heard of? Airlines just ask me to lock my weapon in a case, check it, and I get it back as soon as I land. Amtrak used to have an advantage in my eyes, I just carried it on, locked up in my carry on luggage. Now it does not. I travel to Montana fairly frequently, I hike a good bit. I want a handgun when I am in grizzly territory. Amtrak is making airlines more attractive by making it more irritating to pack a handgun on Amtrak. The sad part is that Amtrak is discouraging legal carry while doing little or nothing to discourage illegal carry.
> ...


----------



## Ryan (Mar 5, 2017)

So how exactly is Amtrak any different?


----------



## PVD (Mar 5, 2017)

The airline "locked in checked luggage unloaded" situation has come under renewed scrutiny due to the recent incident where a passenger retrieved his luggage, loaded his weapon, and started shooting. Amtrak is relatively new to the (legal) gun carrying business, they have been permitted again since the end of 2010.


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

Can I work my way away from my self righteous rant? I think the only difference is that Amtrak asks for 24 hour notice that I am going to carry it on even if it is going into checked luggage. Everything else is similar, lock it up and notify the employees and then check it.

And yes, oddly enough, they expect us to present an unloaded weapon when we check them in. And I think I bent/broke the law when I locked up my handgun and carried it on when I took the Empire Builder to Montana. I won't do it again, but I also probably won't take the EB again, in large part due to the fact that Amtrak won't let me carry my locked up weapon. I don't want you to know that I carry, but I also don't like being told I can't. So I will tell United that I am carrying, and I will avoid Amtrak in the future. Works for me.



Ryan said:


> So how exactly is Amtrak any different?


----------



## Lonestar648 (Mar 5, 2017)

Though many who have concealed and open carry permits found and completed thorough training, and regularly retrain, there are some who found the quickest path to attaining a permit. Though I do not carry personally for health reasons, I have several friends who do. They follow the law explicitly, retraining regularly. The last thing they ever want to do is draw their weapon. They have trained to be aware of their surroundings, how to escape and help others escape, only as a last resort pull their weapon to do what they have trained to do. When they travel they research all the local laws of the destination state and any state they might pass through. When traveling they know federal law, are prepared with the proper equipment, following prep procedures, and notification procedures. Weapons of any type are as safe as the person who is operating them. There is no problem traveling on Amtrak just follow the procedures and all is well, just like flying.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 5, 2017)

Ziv said:


> Amtrak won't let me carry my locked up weapon. I don't want you to know that I carry, but I also don't like being told I can't. So I will tell United that I am carrying, and I will avoid Amtrak in the future. Works for me.


That makes no sense, as United won't let you carry either. As you say, the only difference is the 24 hour notice.


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

United just asked me to tell them as I was boarding and to check a bag. Amtrak asks me to tell them a day in advance and to check my bag. I still like United's approach better. Especially since I usually check a bag with United and I have never checked a bag with Amtrak.



Ryan said:


> Ziv said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak won't let me carry my locked up weapon. I don't want you to know that I carry, but I also don't like being told I can't. So I will tell United that I am carrying, and I will avoid Amtrak in the future. Works for me.
> ...


----------



## Bob Dylan (Mar 5, 2017)

Should we feel uneasy about those that feel they can't go anywhere without packing heat?

Gun advocates love to quote PART of the 2nd Amendment, but leave out the start that says "..A Well Regulated Militia, being necessary to the common defense..."

Cue Buffalo Springfield singing "For What It's Worth".


----------



## niemi24s (Mar 5, 2017)

Ziv said:


> So I will tell United that I am carrying. . .


Are you telling me you can CCW on United just by informing them before you board?

Are you an LEO?


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

I don't carry when I go across the Potomac into DC, even though the Democratic policies that that plantation has followed means that it has a crime rate only a bit better than our community organizer in chief, Che Obama's home, Chicago, enjoys. Because they think only criminals should carry a weapon. No?

Most of the places I carry are safer than DC or Chicago, so what does that tell you?

We can discuss the difference between an operative clause and a prefatory clause, but it won't change the fact that our constitution states that we all have the right to bear arms.

Militias ain't in it, the right to bear arms is one the people will always enjoy because the state can't infringe it.

And the Nationals are off to a very nice start this year! LOL!



Bob Dylan said:


> Should we feel uneasy about those that feel they can't go anywhere without packing heat?
> 
> Gun advocates love to quote PART of the 2nd Amendment, but leave out the start that says "..A Well Regulated Militia, being necessary to the common defense..."
> 
> Cue Buffalo Springfield singing "For What It's Worth".


----------



## Ziv (Mar 5, 2017)

niemi, you arrive, you tell them you have a handgun in a locked container in a bag you intend to check in, they say ok and you walk by. LEO isn't an issue. They don't ask, I don't tell. And I fly out of Dulles and Reagan, two of the strictest airports in the US.



niemi24s said:


> Ziv said:
> 
> 
> > So I will tell United that I am carrying. . .
> ...


----------



## MikefromCrete (Mar 6, 2017)

So why does having to unload your gun make such a big difference? Do you expect to be attacked by a grizzly bear the moment you step off a train in Montana? Is that the same grizzly bear that attacks that school in Montana?


----------



## keelhauled (Mar 6, 2017)

MikefromCrete said:


> So why does having to unload your gun make such a big difference? Do you expect to be attacked by a grizzly bear the moment you step off a train in Montana? Is that the same grizzly bear that attacks that school in Montana?


Didn't you hear about the great Whitefish Grizzly Devestation? The bears attacked the platform en masse. It happened the night after the Bowling Green Massacre, as I recall...



Ziv said:


> I don't carry when I go across the Potomac into DC, even though the Democratic policies that that plantation has followed means that it has a crime rate only a bit better than our community organizer in chief, Che Obama's home, Chicago, enjoys. Because they think only criminals should carry a weapon. No?


President Obama is not actually in office, nor has he ever governed DC or Chicago, so perhaps you should try to find a new bogeyman.


----------



## Asher (Mar 6, 2017)

Guess this means one can't shoot a Buffalo from inside a train anymore, or even a Grizzly in this case.


----------



## caravanman (Mar 6, 2017)

Taking a loaded gun on a train in a "locked" case? Who has the key to that locked case? Oh, the gun owner... Yep, I feel so much safer now. 

Is it true that background checks on mentaly ill folk who buy guns are recently reduced, under Trump?

Ed.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 6, 2017)

The case is in the baggage car, unless the gun owner is in violation of the rules like Ziv has admitted to.

If the rules are followed, it's reasonably safe.


----------



## Ryan (Mar 6, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> Ziv said:
> 
> 
> > So I will tell United that I am carrying. . .
> ...


Near as I can tell, he's talking about checked luggage in both, but the requirement to notify Amtrak is the most onerous restriction in the world and will drive home to the airlines.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Mar 6, 2017)

MikefromCrete said:


> So why does having to unload your gun make such a big difference? Do you expect to be attacked by a grizzly bear the moment you step off a train in Montana? Is that the same grizzly bear that attacks that school in Montana?


----------



## PVD (Mar 6, 2017)

You can not bring a gun onto a plane except unloaded, in checked baggage, and declared. Individual airlines have slightly different procedures, but that is the underlying policy. Obviously, there are exceptions for certain working LEO (like Air Marshals), and a special program for pilots.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Mar 6, 2017)

Guess you haven't noticed that Sodom on the Potomac has morphed into one of the most expensive and trendy cities in the US, as opposed to the bad old days,when I first moved there to begin a 30 year Government career.

As for the less than subtle mentions about Plantations,Comrade,Obama and Communist Revolutionaries,

this is the so called alt-rights paranoia MO, where kooks like Donald Trump, Alex Jones, Brite-Bart and numerous Hate Radio Talk Shows spread manure full of hate,racism,conspiracy theories and paranoia.

Say it ain't so Joe, that you don't believe all this lunacy!


----------



## Ziv (Mar 6, 2017)

When I travel, the handgun is unloaded and locked in a hardcase. I am pretty sure the grizzly will wait til I get off the platform when I arrive.



MikefromCrete said:


> So why does having to unload your gun make such a big difference? Do you expect to be attacked by a grizzly bear the moment you step off a train in Montana? Is that the same grizzly bear that attacks that school in Montana?


----------



## Triley (Mar 6, 2017)

Ryan said:


> The case is in the baggage car, unless the gun owner is in violation of the rules like Ziv has admitted to.
> 
> If the rules are followed, it's reasonably safe.


Just to place more comfort on this matter...the gun would be in a locked cabinet, in the locked baggage car.

If the rules are followed, of course.


----------



## VentureForth (Mar 6, 2017)

Interestingly, no one has mentioned the cost benefit. On Amtrak, your checked gun in your checked bag is free. Not on any airline (except Southwest). Minimum $50, unless you're some club member.


----------



## PVD (Mar 6, 2017)

On the other hand, checked baggage is not conveniently available between many city pairs, and not at all to many stations.


----------



## Lonestar648 (Mar 6, 2017)

What we are discussing is the honest, licensed person who wants to follow the rules. How do these rules affect the dishonest person carrying a concealed weapon that will travel Amtrak because there are no TSA security check points. Is this person intending to use their weapon on Amtrak? Probably not, but if confronted they may not think rationally and go willingly. What is the response time from the moment the Conductor radios an emergency to when Law Enforcement board the train?


----------



## PVD (Mar 6, 2017)

The response time obviously will vary greatly depending on where a train is located. If a gun is concealed and remains so, detection is unlikely, inspection is a rarity.

If it comes into view and someone notifies the crew, you are likely to leave wearing silver bracelets. Even if your firearm was legal under the laws of the state where you were, you have committed a federal offense and are still subject to arrest.


----------



## dlagrua (Mar 6, 2017)

Most all weapons are not allowed on Amtrak trains, except firearms that are declared and checked as baggage. If you are worried about self protection, you can buy a metal walking cane and carry that with you. I have one that is so solid, that if attacked, I can crack the assailants skull open with it.


----------



## me_little_me (Mar 6, 2017)

Someone pass the popcorn, please. This thread, unless stopped, will probably exceed that of the new Viewliners.

Darn! The popcorn maker is locked in baggage!


----------



## fairviewroad (Mar 6, 2017)

PVD said:


> On the other hand, checked baggage is not conveniently available between many city pairs, and not at all to many stations.


And the number is diminishing each year as Amtrak reduces the number of stations with staffed agents.


----------



## MattW (Mar 6, 2017)

caravanman said:


> Taking a loaded gun on a train in a "locked" case? Who has the key to that locked case? Oh, the gun owner... Yep, I feel so much safer now.
> 
> *Is it true that background checks on mentaly ill folk who buy guns are recently reduced, under Trump?*
> 
> Ed.


(bolding mine) Not remotely true.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 6, 2017)

MattW said:


> caravanman said:
> 
> 
> > Taking a loaded gun on a train in a "locked" case? Who has the key to that locked case? Oh, the gun owner... Yep, I feel so much safer now.
> ...


I believe they're talking about this...



> President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun. The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database. Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database. President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221



> President Donald Trump Tuesday signed a measure nixing a regulation aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of some severely mentally ill people. The original rule was part of a series of efforts taken by the Obama administration to try and curb gun violence after other efforts failed to advance in Congress.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/28/politics/guns-mental-health-rule/

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517799119/trump-repeals-rule-designed-to-block-gun-sales-to-certain-mentally-ill-people

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/its-now-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-get-guns-thank-trump_us_58b71aeae4b023018c6c6424

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html


----------



## caravanman (Mar 6, 2017)

MattW said:


> caravanman said:
> 
> 
> > Taking a loaded gun on a train in a "locked" case? Who has the key to that locked case? Oh, the gun owner... Yep, I feel so much safer now.
> ...


Strange, because the rest of the world thinks otherwise: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/28/politics/guns-mental-health-rule/

Edwin


----------



## pennyk (Mar 6, 2017)

Staff has agreed that this thread has run its course. The OP's question has been answered. To avoid more unrelated political posts, we are locking this thread.


----------

