# Delta kicks musician out of SkyMiles program



## amtrakwolverine (Nov 14, 2012)

> A world-renowned cellist says Delta Air Lines made him feel like a “master criminal” after the carrier banished him from its frequent flier program for collecting miles whenever he paid for an extra seat for his instrument.


http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/delta-kicks-musician-out-skymiles-program-1C7048162


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## the_traveler (Nov 14, 2012)

I would fell the same way that he did! :angry: What gets me is that it took DL almost 12 years since that first notice in January 2001 to notice that *THEY* were still giving the Cello miles? And people say Amtrak is slow? :blink:


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## PRR 60 (Nov 14, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> > A world-renowned cellist says Delta Air Lines made him feel like a “master criminal” after the carrier banished him from its frequent flier program for collecting miles whenever he paid for an extra seat for his instrument.
> 
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.c...ogram-1C7048162


So the guy scammed Delta for over ten years, and now he's mad that he finally got caught and paid the price. Too bad.

I wonder how many trips or upgrades Mr. Cello provided to Mr. Harrell over those ten years? And, by the way, his account was cancelled back in January. He posts his tale of woe in November. Sounds like he tried to pull a DYKWIA routine at various levels at DL for nine months and failed. Also too bad.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 14, 2012)

Sounds like sour grapes on both sides. Oh well. Delta may have a good revenue product but their SkyMiles program is one of the worst loyalty setups out there, at least in my view.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 14, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> > A world-renowned cellist says Delta Air Lines made him feel like a “master criminal” after the carrier banished him from its frequent flier program for collecting miles whenever he paid for an extra seat for his instrument.
> 
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.c...ogram-1C7048162


Ill take the Musicians side on this one! He did PAY for the Seats, the Rules, which may or may not be clear or even known, (see thread on AGR)may Prohibit this but IMO if you are in a Loyalty Program and PAY for something that provides Perks and Benefits as Opposed to trying to Get Over, it, makes Sense to me to be entitled to them! Great Public Relations Delta, another Nail in the Airline Coffin! Im not a Lawyer and this may technically be Legal, but it Smells IMO! :help:

Delta: When you Die and go to Heaven or Hell, you WILL go through Atlanta! :giggle:


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## jis (Nov 14, 2012)

jimhudson said:


> Delta: When you Die and go to Heaven or Hell, you WILL go through Atlanta! :giggle:


It is quite premature to surmise Delta's demise. They are one of the better performing airlines in the US financially speaking, these days.

I wonder if Mr. Cellist was collecting Elite Qualifying Miles on both seats. If he was that is clearly against the rules. If that were allowed say on Amtrak, one could book three seats in one's name on say a short points run from say Philly to Paoli, hand in three tickets and collect three times the TQP! Actually I am astounded that it took Delta so long to figure this out.

I think Jim is stretching the limits of credulity and reasonableness to support Mr. Cellist, Just IMHO of course.


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## jebr (Nov 14, 2012)

jis said:


> I think Jim is stretching the limits of credulity and reasonableness to support Mr. Cellist, Just IMHO of course.


Perhaps, but I still think that the cellist wasn't necessarily crazy for doing so, and Delta is overreacting. 11 years is beyond what a government can go after you for (statute of limitations is 7 years,) and many times the rules are written in such a way that it's hard for anyone to understand it! Plus, he was paying for both seats, so it's not like he was earning points for a seat he didn't pay for.

A better course of action would be for them to call him, tell him that what he's doing is wrong, and perhaps limit him to getting points for one seat per flight on the SkyMiles side.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 14, 2012)

From someone with very limited knowledge of FF miles, etc.

I would think that a person could NOT "buy" two seats on the same flight in his/her name (though I guess people who need the extra space may get an exemption...but not double the rewards). So, maybe the Cellist made up a bogus name/etc for his traveling companion(cello) and it took Delta 11 years to find out that was what he did. In this cause, I would say he defrauded Delta and should be removed from the program.

(I did not read the article)


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## TimePeace (Nov 14, 2012)

I don't see the difference. If it's true that he'd get the points if the ticket was for a person, a family member, then what's the difference who or WHAT rides in the seat. It's expensive freight but I totally see why he wouldn't put a valuable instrument in checked baggage.

He pays for the seat and gets the points for the seat. Where's the "scam"??


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 14, 2012)

As I said, I'm not familiar with FF. But wouldn't the points go to the PERSON on the ticket/in the seat?


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## Trogdor (Nov 15, 2012)

AmtrakBlue said:


> From someone with very limited knowledge of FF miles, etc.
> 
> I would think that a person could NOT "buy" two seats on the same flight in his/her name (though I guess people who need the extra space may get an exemption...but not double the rewards). So, maybe the Cellist made up a bogus name/etc for his traveling companion(cello) and it took Delta 11 years to find out that was what he did. In this cause, I would say he defrauded Delta and should be removed from the program.
> 
> (I did not read the article)


Airlines have a number of situations where passengers would buy multiple tickets. One such situation is where a passenger is too large to fit in one seat.

Another such situation is this very one, where musicians with large musical instruments that are way too expensive/fragile to entrust to checked baggage purchase a second seat to bring the instrument on the plane with them. This has been happening since, more or less, the dawn of time (okay, slight exaggeration there), and most airlines are familiar with the requirement and have specific procedures in place for such an event (though some airlines don't allow it). Musicians who travel with these instruments should be aware of these policies as well.



Maine Rider said:


> I don't see the difference. If it's true that he'd get the points if the ticket was for a person, a family member, then what's the difference who or WHAT rides in the seat. It's expensive freight but I totally see why he wouldn't put a valuable instrument in checked baggage.
> 
> He pays for the seat and gets the points for the seat. Where's the "scam"??


Virtually every frequent traveler program known to man requires the person earning the points to be the one doing the actual traveling.


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## jis (Nov 15, 2012)

Maine Rider said:


> I don't see the difference. If it's true that he'd get the points if the ticket was for a person, a family member, then what's the difference who or WHAT rides in the seat. It's expensive freight but I totally see why he wouldn't put a valuable instrument in checked baggage.
> 
> He pays for the seat and gets the points for the seat. Where's the "scam"??


Clearly you don't do too much traveling involving collecting FF points. You do not get to collect points in your account for others that travel paid for by you. The person whose name appears on the boarding pass gets the points and only one such can collect points in an account on a specific segment.


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## PRR 60 (Nov 15, 2012)

I wonder if Mr. Cello earned status? Perhaps he got lounge access and could bring in a harp as a guest.


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## fairviewroad (Nov 15, 2012)

jis said:


> I wonder if Mr. Cellist was collecting Elite Qualifying Miles on both seats. If he was that is clearly against the rules. If that were allowed say on Amtrak, one could book three seats in one's name on say a short points run from say Philly to Paoli, hand in three tickets and collect three times the TQP!


Why would Mr. Cellist collect EQ miles on both seats? It's clear from the story that the cello was a separate account. Mr. Cellist was collecting EQ miles on his seat, and the cello's account was collecting EQ miles on its seat. And the end of the day, the person and the cello collected the same number of miles.

And the Amtrak PHL-PAO points run example is not analogous. In that example, someone is purchasing tickets for phantom people for the sole purpose of earning extra points. In this example, the person was purchasing a ticket for a specific, practical reason: To transport a cello from Point A to Point B. Big difference, IMO. The mileage, in a sense, was really secondary to the actual reason for travel.


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## TimePeace (Nov 15, 2012)

jis said:


> Clearly you don't do too much traveling involving collecting FF points.


True... I have never earned any points from any airline. I am not well versed in the way such programs work, I was merely saying what seemed logical to me. My mistake.


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## jis (Nov 15, 2012)

PRR 60 said:


> I wonder if Mr. Cello earned status? Perhaps he got lounge access and could bring in a harp as a guest.


Mr. Cello would have had to travel a lot of miles to earn lounge access, but yes, Mr. Cello could then bring Ms Harp to the lounge.

Isn;t there a clause somewhere which says one has to be an animate being to actually earn miles?  Afterall I could get my Mr. Cello a seat on Amtrak and collect AGR points for Mr. Cello and then gift those to me, with due permission from Mr. Cello of course


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## Anderson (Nov 15, 2012)

jis said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if Mr. Cello earned status? Perhaps he got lounge access and could bring in a harp as a guest.
> ...


And what a striking duet they would make...


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