# Speaking the Lingo



## JoanieBlon (Nov 30, 2010)

To all the train savy folks who post on this forum.... :help:

My husband and I LOVE train travel and are in the process of booking trips one by one on all the routes that Amtrak offers. Our next trip in the USA is New Orleans-Los Angeles-Portland-Seattle in August 2011. Prior to that, we'll be traveling from Montreal to Vancouver on Canada's VIA Rail ~ with a 2 night stop-over in Jasper. 

I'm VERY interested in all the various informative topics that are addressed in this forum. However ~ all the abbreviations for stations ~ PDX,PVD, MAC, QCY, FEC, ONA, CBS, etc. make me go ???? :wacko: I'm just too lazy to go look these up when I'm trying to wade through the posts here. I'm pretty sure that PDX is Portland ~ but the others?? :blink: I can guess that BOS is probably Boston, and CHI is Chicago, but some pretty obscure ones (at least in MY experience) get posted here frequently.

Worse yet for non-rail fanatics/devotees reading your posts are the other abbreviations that don't deal with cities. Some recent ones posted include MARC, CL, RFP and QC. :help: <_< I am CLUELESS! hboy:

I know it takes a little longer to type out the full words and I KNOW it's "hipper" to use railroad jargon when chatting, but it would be helpful to those of us trying to learn more about the rail routes and systems to have posts in plain language now and then....

That being said, THANK YOU for your very helpful discussions!  :hi:


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 30, 2010)

I agree.


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## Eric S (Nov 30, 2010)

JoanieBlon said:


> However ~ all the abbreviations for stations ~ PDX,PVD, MAC, QCY, FEC, ONA, CBS, etc. make me go ???? Some recent ones posted include MARC, CL, RFP and QC.


Well, here's a small attempt to help.

PDX = Portland, OR

PVD = Providence

MAC = Macomb, IL

QCY = Quincy, IL

FEC = Florida East Coast railroad, a (currently) freight-only railroad running between Jacksonville and Miami

ONA = Ontario, CA

CBS = Columbus, WI

MARC = MARC, a commuter rail system in the Washington-Baltimore area

CL = _Capitol Limited_

RFP = ? Perhaps, Request For Proposals, but not sure of the context in which you read it

QC = Quiet Car


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 30, 2010)

One thing I always liked about Airliners.net was how they had an automatic routine that would add hover tips to common abbreviations for newbies. I believe there is a thread with a master list somewhere. Maybe it could be prominently linked in the standard template to show up in each thread? On the other hand why not look them up or join the conversation and ask in the thread from which they came?


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## the_traveler (Nov 30, 2010)

You can find all the station codes in the front of the national TT (timetable) or on the Amtrak website under the "find a station" link. Many of the trains names are just abbreviations:


CL = Capital Limited
SL = Sunset Limited
CS = Coast Starlight
EB = Empire Builder
CONO = City of New Orleans
etc...

As are many railroads:


UP = Union Pacific
SP = Southern Pacific
SF = Sante Fe
BN = Burlington Northern
CN = Canadian National
CP = Canadian Pacific
BNSF = Burlington Northern / Sante Fe
etc...

And many positions or equipment:


CA = Car Attendant or Coach Attendant
SCA = Sleeping Car Attendant
SA = Service Attendant
LSA = Lead Service Attendent
OBS = On Board Service (staff)
QT = Quik-Trak (machine)
TA = Ticket Agent
AFI = Amfleet I (car)
AFII = Amfleet II (car)
PPC = Pacific Parlour Car
CCC = Cross Country Cafe
SSL = SightSeer Lounge
etc...

If you don't know one, just ask!


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## Shanghai (Nov 30, 2010)

*We need an AU Glossary of Abbreviations (AGA) that is easily available on the website. It should be a clickable, drip down file.*


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 30, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> *We need an AU Glossary of Abbreviations (AGA) that is easily available on the website. It should be a clickable, drip down file.*


Speaking of confusion, what's a "drip-down file?" And while I'm at it why do you put everything you write in bold?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

Don't we do this thread every few weeks?


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## JoanieBlon (Nov 30, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> *We need an AU Glossary of Abbreviations (AGA) that is easily available on the website. It should be a clickable, drip down file.*


THAT would be VERY helpful!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > *We need an AU Glossary of Abbreviations (AGA) that is easily available on the website. It should be a clickable, drip down file.*
> ...


Drop down, it's clear he meant drop down.

And because hes allowed to, you got a problem with bold text Dax?


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## JoanieBlon (Nov 30, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Don't we do this thread every few weeks?


Maybe "we" do, but I became frustated trying to read the posts. Apparently nobody pays any attention to the pleas of those of us who don't understand??


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

JoanieBlon said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Don't we do this thread every few weeks?
> ...


If somebody wants a definition of an acronym, then they can ask. Were all very helpful, if not one of the regular posters the mods will do a quick definiton post.


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## Shanghai (Nov 30, 2010)

*Sorry, I meant a Drop Down File!!*

* *

*If you don't like to see my posts in Bold Type, just close one of your eyes.*


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

:lol: good point Shanghai


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 30, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Drop down, it's clear he meant drop down. And because hes allowed to, you got a problem with bold text Dax?


An I'm allowed to ask why. You got a problem with me asking ALC? Personally I like the sound of "drip down file." It reminds me of the more carefree days of "floppy disks" and I think it makes about as much sense as the term we actually use, so no harm intended.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 30, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> *Sorry, I meant a Drop Down File!! If you don't like to see my posts in Bold Type, just close one of your eyes.*


Well I can see you've really thought it through. I also like the double-exclamation points just in case the boldness wasn't enough to get our attention.


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## Rail Freak (Nov 30, 2010)

What I do is go to Amtrak.com & where you put in the station Departing or Arriving, there is a option to "Find a Station". Click & go from there. Has helped me many times.( Except- where is WIP???




)

Have Fun


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## Long Train Runnin' (Nov 30, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > *Sorry, I meant a Drop Down File!! If you don't like to see my posts in Bold Type, just close one of your eyes.*
> ...


You could always just focus on what the text says as opposed to how it looks.

Joan if you come across a couple of acronyms that you don't know in a thread just ask in the thread. There are always those one that come up you won't know regardless of how much time you spend reading things here.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 30, 2010)

Everone can check station codes, but why should the 100 or so people who read your posting have to? Waste of bandwidth. Just write out the station name at the start of the message so everone know what your talking about. I sure some are just trolling for newbies but I just want to read the posting and not spend all day try to figure out what been said.

I have been called out on an post or two, and the person who qutoed me use abbreviations. If I am going to reply to there message I allways try to spell out the abbreviation, and when possible add an little more info about the subject. Just so the reader does not have spend all day on google. Just seem the right thing to do.

My two cents. Just-Thinking......


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

Because to those who speak the jargon it's easier to type. Many of us actually speak it, for instance ALC is station code for Alliance, OH, but I know many on the forum who will actually say A-L-C in person when referencing the station. Not to be confused, of course, with the now defunct ACL or Atlantic Coast Line.

Now everybody here is fair and generally of good temper, but demanding that somebody change the way they talk is stretching the realm of rationality. Everybody is more than happy to educate and provide definitions for clarity.


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## PaulM (Nov 30, 2010)

Eric S said:


> RFP = ? Perhaps, Request For Proposals, but not sure of the context in which you read it


Probably Richmond, Fredricksburg, and Potomac, a predecessor to the CSX. Sorry it's just CSX. CS is Chessie System, itself a successor to the B&O and C&O, which along with the L&N, SAL, ACL, NC&SL, and parts of Conrail successor to the Pennsylvania and NYC, plus who knows what constitutes the CSX.

Anyway thanks for mentioning my favorite Amtrak station: QCY,

To the OP (original poster?), you will pick it up. Like any hobby, the lingo is half the fun.


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## sportbiker (Nov 30, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> demanding that somebody change the way they talk


Who made that demand?


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## the_traveler (Nov 30, 2010)

sportbiker said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > demanding that somebody change the way they talk
> ...


Many people "demand" that illegal aliens from Mexico speak English - not Spanish or Spanglish!


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## LA Resident (Nov 30, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> sportbiker said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


I'm not quite sure I understand your comment?? I hope it's in jest as there is too much ugliness around vis-a-vis "outsiders" already for my taste.


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## GG-1 (Nov 30, 2010)

Aloha

Please lets all understand the original poster's needs as many can not follow acronyms. And also show some Aloha for those who may not agree with your opinion. Also when quoting don not isolate so few words to change the meaning of the original statement

Mahalo

Eric


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## sunchaser (Nov 30, 2010)

I thought I saw in a past thread that the train codes for the cities are pretty much the same as the airport codes. Am I correct? As far as the acronyms for the different trains, aren't most of them the initials of the trains such as:

CZ-California Zephyr

CS-Coast Starlight

EB-Empire Builder

CONO-City Of New Orleans

etc...

I still get stumped sometimes when reading. I just ask. Like-OTP- On Time Performance.


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## PRR 60 (Nov 30, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> I thought I saw in a past thread that the train codes for the cities are pretty much the same as the airport codes. Am I correct?


A lot of them are the same as the airport code, but some are not. There is no hard and fast rule.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2010)

For instance PGH, the airport code for Pittsburgh is PIT.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 30, 2010)

I think the OP has a good idea. Unless you are a railfan, it is hard to put together context clues to decipher the meanings of the two letter abbreviations. On a couple of forums such as cruise critic and flyer talk forums, they have a way of keeping certain threads at the top. These threads usually contain answers to many of the frequently asked questions. We could have one of those on here for abbreviations.

Amtrak Unlimited is a particularly friendly forum, and I think we should all strive to keep it that way. If a request or post is annoying to you, or you don't want to answer a repetitive question, go on to the next thread. If you can take the time to type a snappy response to a repetitive request, IMHO, the time could be better spent helping the OP out.

AlanB is a good role model for this. He does this numerous times a week if not per day, answering similar questions.


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 30, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> 
> Please lets all understand the original poster's needs as many can not follow acronyms. And also show some Aloha for those who may not agree with your opinion. Also when quoting don not isolate so few words to change the meaning of the original statement
> 
> ...


There are several topics that have routinely appeared on this board. Suggesting that "we've talked about this before," is not helpful to new folks who ask "old" questions. If you can answer the OP question great. If not, try to avoid being critical of the question being asked.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 1, 2010)

You're helping the OP out by telling them its been discussed before-- the "search" function on these boards should never be underestimated.



> There are several topics that have routinely appeared on this board. Suggesting that "we've talked about this before," is not helpful to new folks who ask "old" questions. If you can answer the OP question great. If not, try to avoid being critical of the question being asked.


This isn't an "old" subject by any means, we just had this pop up less than two months ago. And all members who posted in this thread (excluding guests who don't have membership join dates to the left) have been members for more than two months.

And this isn't an "old" topic in that other topics never suggested a plausible addition to the site, such as a pinned glossary or a drop down menu. This is actually somewhat relevant.


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## the_traveler (Dec 1, 2010)

If I offended anyone with my last post, I am sorry and I apologize!






I am far from prejudiced - I am of Lithuanian and Polish decent, and also have a former Polish native living with me!


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## Alice (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm another one who has trouble with the acronyms. Generally I just ignore them. So some train is running with a different consist now? Or its on-time record is better? Or how is parking at some station? Even if I'm going to be on those particular trains, I'm going to enjoy the trip regardless of the consist, whether or not it will be on time, and what the parking is like anywhere but where I leave my car (preferably a driveway).

I usually don't abbreviate when posting because I tend to make errors, like mixing PCC (a kind of street car that is fun to visit in different cities) and PPC (Pacific Parlor Car on the Coast Starlight).


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2010)

Long Train Runnin said:


> You could always just focus on what the text says as opposed to how it looks.


True. And for the first hundred globally bolded posts that's exactly what I did. But eventually it just got old and I wondered why _every single word_ needed to be bolded. Apparently there is no reason. Or at least no reason worthy of repeating.


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## Eric S (Dec 1, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> What I do is go to Amtrak.com & where you put in the station Departing or Arriving, there is a option to "Find a Station". Click & go from there. Has helped me many times.( Except- where is WIP???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WIP = Fraser, CO (Winter Park)


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## JoanieBlon (Dec 1, 2010)

Eric S said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > What I do is go to Amtrak.com & where you put in the station Departing or Arriving, there is a option to "Find a Station". Click & go from there. Has helped me many times.( Except- where is WIP???
> ...


As opposed to WPK ~ Winter Park Florida ~ which I just looked up.... -_-


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## Everydaymatters (Dec 1, 2010)

Shanghai has a terrific idea. I've been a rail fan for a long time and I still get stumped with a lot of the lingo. A drop down would be a terrific help.

I don't care if it's a drip-down or if it's in bold with exclamation marks. It's a good idea.


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## jis (Dec 1, 2010)

Sometimes some of the airport codes have a little bit of history hiding in them. For example Chicago O'Hare is ORD because it was originally called Orchard Field. Orlando International is MCO, because its original name was McCoy Field.

Sometimes having the Amtrak station code for the city station being different from the airport code works out well. For example, Newark NJ, where the Amtrak station is NWK and the airport is EWR. When the Newark Airport Station was built it naturally got the code EWR. Can you imagine the headache it would have been if Newark Penn had the code EWR? BTW the ICAO code for Newark Airport is KEWR. Indeed in most cases you can get the ICAO 4 letter code for an US airport by pre-pending a K to the 3 letter IATA code for the airport.

Many Amtrak stations have their own IATA codes too, specially those that have code share service between Amtrak and an airline (typically Continental).


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## Pastor Dave (Dec 1, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> You're helping the OP out by telling them its been discussed before-- the "search" function on these boards should never be underestimated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ALC,

I'm in total agreement with you. Unfortunately, IMHO, the written word is often heavily weighted on perception and not intent. There are times that, in the intent of offering advice or help, statements can be perceived as condescending or critical. If I ask a question that has previously been addressed, gently direct me to the thread or take a few moments to explain the search function.

I guess what I am trying to convey is that there are threads where reply-posters would do a greater service by not saying anything rather than discourage someone from raising the questions they wish. In addition, I note on many topics where some point to a previous thread that others are more than happy to chime in with responses. Why not just let that happen?

Dave


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## LA Resident (Dec 1, 2010)

jis said:


> Sometimes some of the airport codes have a little bit of history hiding in them. For example Chicago O'Hare is ORD because it was originally called Orchard Field. Orlando International is MCO, because its original name was McCoy Field.
> 
> Sometimes having the Amtrak station code for the city station being different from the airport code works out well. For example, Newark NJ, where the Amtrak station is NWK and the airport is EWR. When the Newark Airport Station was built it naturally got the code EWR. Can you imagine the headache it would have been if Newark Penn had the code EWR? BTW the ICAO code for Newark Airport is KEWR. Indeed in most cases you can get the ICAO 4 letter code for an US airport by pre-pending a K to the 3 letter IATA code for the airport.
> 
> Many Amtrak stations have their own IATA codes too, specially those that have code share service between Amtrak and an airline (typically Continental).


Also unique that no one EVER refers to LAX as Los Angeles International. It's ALWAYS "LAX" or verbalized as L-A-X.

I can't think of another airport where people ALWAYS refer to it by its code! As many friends elsewhere would say, well, what would you expect about LAX, er, Los Angeles??? :help:


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## Ryan (Dec 1, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> I can't think of another airport where people ALWAYS refer to it by its code! As many friends elsewhere would say, well, what would you expect about LAX, er, Los Angeles??? :help:



BWI


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## TransitGeek (Dec 1, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Because to those who speak the jargon it's easier to type. Many of us actually speak it, for instance ALC is station code for Alliance, OH, but I know many on the forum who will actually say A-L-C in person when referencing the station.


After learning of the weather from a travelogue on here, I told my wife "Ugh, it's snowing in V-R-V. Must be freezing at your parents' house." Obviously I'm lurking here too much.



LA Resident said:


> Also unique that no one EVER refers to LAX as Los Angeles International. It's ALWAYS "LAX" or verbalized as L-A-X.
> 
> I can't think of another airport where people ALWAYS refer to it by its code!


SFO, and often (but probably not always) JFK.


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## LA Resident (Dec 1, 2010)

TransitGeek said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Because to those who speak the jargon it's easier to type. Many of us actually speak it, for instance ALC is station code for Alliance, OH, but I know many on the forum who will actually say A-L-C in person when referencing the station.
> ...


SFO? I don't think so. I doubt that more than 10% of passengers on any San Francisco-bound flight would know SFO. JFK might be a much closer match to LAX. And of course, LAX is usually referred to as just that, lax, and not L-A-X, by broadcasters and the like. There again, JFK would be a very close match. But I've yet to hear a Bay Area announcer say SFO. The weather people say fog has socked in San Francisco, but not Oakland, airports.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 1, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes some of the airport codes have a little bit of history hiding in them. For example Chicago O'Hare is ORD because it was originally called Orchard Field. Orlando International is MCO, because its original name was McCoy Field.
> ...


DFW. Don't know about the locals, but people flying through generally call it "DFW" not "Dallas-Fort Worth". As in "I had to change planes at O'Hare" or "I had to change planes at DFW"


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## Ryan (Dec 1, 2010)

True. I've heard and/or used all the examples above (BWI, LAX, SFO, JFK, DFW) in everyday conversation.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 1, 2010)

LaGuardia factors in, the city isn't named LaGuardia after all.

CAK (also hear Cack), EWR, PDX, DFW, SAC (like 'sack') to name a few more as "ones I've heard in public"

CAK is interesting because the airport code only kinda-sorta matches the city. The airport is Akron-Canton Regional, which seems like it should be AKC, or ACN. Whenever I search for flights out of there I google "CAK departures" versus "Akron Canton Airport Departures".


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## roomette (Dec 1, 2010)

I've never in my life even once heard anyone say Lax, as in laxative. Never.

From the radio or tv announcer to the guy next door, it's always three words, El Lay Ex.

Lax? What planet of people say that?


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## tp49 (Dec 1, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> LaGuardia factors in, the city isn't named LaGuardia after all.
> 
> CAK (also hear Cack), EWR, PDX, DFW, SAC (like 'sack') to name a few more as "ones I've heard in public"
> 
> CAK is interesting because the airport code only kinda-sorta matches the city. The airport is Akron-Canton Regional, which seems like it should be AKC, or ACN. Whenever I search for flights out of there I google "CAK departures" versus "Akron Canton Airport Departures".


Except SAC isn't the airport code for Sacramento International Airport. That code is SMF.

We do however say Sac to refer to the actual city in general conversation.


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## jis (Dec 1, 2010)

EWR is so much more convenient than "Newark Liberty International Airport" 

JFK is very often used, including in most signage in the subway system pointing to Sutphin Blvd station on J and E as the transfer point to JFK Airtrain.

Back to Amtrak, I am starting to hear a few people use NYP to refer to Penn Station, but not that much.


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## rrdude (Dec 1, 2010)

Pastor Dave said:


> GG-1 said:
> 
> 
> > Aloha
> ...


Amen Pastor, amen. It's "new" to the person who just joined, or first posted here. If it's not new to you, then simply scroll past/down, but no need to say "that question has been asked sooooooo many times..........."


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## rrdude (Dec 1, 2010)

jis said:


> Sometimes some of the airport codes have a little bit of history hiding in them. For example Chicago O'Hare is ORD because it was originally called Orchard Field. Orlando International is MCO, because its original name was McCoy Field.
> 
> Sometimes having the Amtrak station code for the city station being different from the airport code works out well. For example, Newark NJ, where the Amtrak station is NWK and the airport is EWR. When the Newark Airport Station was built it naturally got the code EWR. Can you imagine the headache it would have been if Newark Penn had the code EWR? BTW the ICAO code for Newark Airport is KEWR. Indeed in most cases you can get the ICAO 4 letter code for an US airport by pre-pending a K to the 3 letter IATA code for the airport.
> 
> Many Amtrak stations have their own IATA codes too, specially those that have code share service between Amtrak and an airline (typically Continental).


I now have an ice-cream headache.........


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## Dan O (Dec 2, 2010)

Ryan said:


> LA Resident said:
> 
> 
> > I can't think of another airport where people ALWAYS refer to it by its code! As many friends elsewhere would say, well, what would you expect about LAX, er, Los Angeles??? :help:
> ...


I think of it as Friendship. Guess that dates me.

Dano


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 2, 2010)

jis said:


> EWR is so much more convenient than "Newark Liberty International Airport"
> 
> JFK is very often used, including in most signage in the subway system pointing to Sutphin Blvd station on J and E as the transfer point to JFK Airtrain.
> 
> Back to Amtrak, I am starting to hear a few people use NYP to refer to Penn Station, but not that much.


GCT is becoming popular, mainly because that's how it prints out on MN tickets, but still--


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## PRR 60 (Dec 2, 2010)

Dan O said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > LA Resident said:
> ...


I think of JFK as Idlewild. What's that make me? :lol:


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2010)

jis said:


> Sometimes some of the airport codes have a little bit of history hiding in them.


Sometimes it's history and sometimes it's a warning that you won't be arriving anywhere near your intended destination, as in the case of NRT.



roomette said:


> I've never in my life even once heard anyone say Lax, as in laxative. Never.


Same here.



jis said:


> EWR is so much more convenient than "Newark Liberty International Airport"


It's always just "Newark" around here.

I've heard people call JFK "Kennedy" enough times that I don't think it qualifies. LAX and DFW are definitely in the running though. I honestly cannot remember anyone calling them by any other name in all the years I've been flying. How about airports with nearly unpronounceable names like _Suvarnabhumi_. Much easier to just say "BKK" instead. :lol:


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## the_traveler (Dec 2, 2010)

I think of ALB (the airport) as "Albany County Airport" (from the 34 years i lived in the area), not "Albany International Airport"!

BTW - I don't even think there are international flights there. There were back in 1983-1984 when I worked for Mall Airways. We had flights to Montreal and Toronto - with 15 passenger props. However at that time, it was still called "Albany County Airport", and I think Mall Airways is now out of business.


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## the_traveler (Dec 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> sometimes it's a warning that you won't be arriving anywhere near your intended destination, as in the case of NRT.


I would still say "I'm flying to Tokyo"!



Closer to home, if someone is flying in from London or Paris or Moscow and flying to IAD, I seldom hear them say "I'm flying to Dulles". Instead they say "I'm flying to Washington, DC"! (Dulles is miles from Washington.)


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## GG-1 (Dec 2, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Dan O said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


My Age  :hi: :lol:

Aloha


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## spacecadet (Dec 2, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> SFO? I don't think so. I doubt that more than 10% of passengers on any San Francisco-bound flight would know SFO.


When I lived in San Francisco, almost everybody I knew just said SFO. I even knew people that would say "Oak" (as in OAK) for Oakland airport.

It may not be 100% usage, but it's vastly higher than 10%.

As for JFK, we use JFK and Kennedy pretty interchangeably. You even see both printed on official signs: Kennedy Airport and JFK Airport


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> I would still say "I'm flying to Tokyo"! Closer to home, if someone is flying in from London or Paris or Moscow and flying to IAD, I seldom hear them say "I'm flying to Dulles". Instead they say "I'm flying to Washington, DC"! (Dulles is miles from Washington.)


Does it cost $300 to take a cab from Dulles into DC proper? You're not flying into Tokyo, that airport is called Haneda. You're flying into Narita, which is a whole other city. Thankfully NRT has several trains for rail fans to choose from, offering various speeds, routes, and price points. I've tried the locals, the Skyliner, and the NEX. Both the locals and the Skyliner were pretty full, but the NEX was often quite empty. I guess the cost isn't considered a good value by the resident population and unless you're on an active rail pass I'd have to agree. I've also done the weirdly named "Airport Limousine" bus just to see what it was like. It was nothing special and although I've heard there are groups for bus fans I honestly can't imagine what they see in them.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 2, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Dan O said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


A Twilight Zone fan? :lol:


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## Ryan (Dec 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I would still say "I'm flying to Tokyo"! Closer to home, if someone is flying in from London or Paris or Moscow and flying to IAD, I seldom hear them say "I'm flying to Dulles". Instead they say "I'm flying to Washington, DC"! (Dulles is miles from Washington.)
> ...


I've never taken a cab, but I'll bet it's pretty close to that. Sounds pretty similar actually, since IAD isn't anywhere near DC, and DC has its own inner airport in DCA.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 2, 2010)

Can't be more than a hundred, can it? I remember people going from BWI to WAS (the train stations believe it or not) during the Jon Stewart rally for twenty a head. Fannies said it was normally 60 to get to WAS and 80 to get to anywhere else in the city. Of course they could have been blowing smoke up peoples butts because here were many people waiting in a ticket line for sold out trains!


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## the_traveler (Dec 2, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> they could have been blowing soke up peoples butts


I hate it when somebody blows soke! It's bad enough having somebody blows smoke!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 2, 2010)

Posting from a phone has it's downsides, heh, fixed.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I've never taken a cab, but I'll bet it's pretty close to that. Sounds pretty similar actually, since IAD isn't anywhere near DC, and DC has its own inner airport in DCA.


Rather than continue to speak in vague and impotent terms about what is close or far why don't we look up some actual numbers. According to a couple quick queries Dulles is around twenty-five miles from central DC while Narita is forty-odd miles from central Tokyo. That's a big enough difference to be quite noticeable, I would think.


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## jis (Dec 2, 2010)

Ryan said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Totally agree Ryan.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Narita a city. It is at best a largish, and a delightful, village with a beautiful large temple. I actually enjoy staying at some hotel by the Narita Keisei station and commuting into Tokyo.

But in any case what is dax's point? CDG is not in Paris nor is Orly, London Heathrow (by Hayes, Middlesex) or Gatwick are not in London, and IAD is not in Washington. And yet when I fly to CDG I say I am flying to Paris, not to Roissy-sur-something or the other I forget, when I fly to Gatwick or Heathrow or even to Stansted I say I am flying to London. Do you really expect people to only say they are flying to London when they fly to the London City Airport?

And anyone has to be either completely ignorant or a total idiot to try to take a cab from Narita Airport to Tokyo city center, so why talk about it? The right way to get from the airport to the city is the Keisei Express, the JR NeX or the Limo Bus, or for the well heeled even the JR Sobu-Yokosuka line Rapid, which is much cheaper than the NeX, unless you want to flaunt your wealth that is.


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## PerRock (Jun 5, 2012)

tp49 said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > LaGuardia factors in, the city isn't named LaGuardia after all.
> ...


Whenever I hear "SAC" I think of Strategic Air Command, not Sacramento...

peter


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## jis (Jun 5, 2012)

Wow! What a blast from the past!


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## Henry Kisor (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm so old I still think of ORD as Orchard Airport.


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## Ryan (Jun 5, 2012)

jis said:


> Wow! What a blast from the past!


Really!


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## printman2000 (Jun 5, 2012)

I too find people using station codes difficult to read and decipher. I always spell out station names. I have abbreviated trains many times but usually only when I am posted quickly from my phone.

I do have a link I use to look up codes when I am interested, but I rarely use it. I usually just skip on posts that use station codes I do not know. It just does not take that much more time to type out the station name so I also would ask people to do it when possible.

Here is the link I have...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_station_codes


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## PerRock (Jun 5, 2012)

Sorry about the bump to those who complain. I was reading two threads (and looking for another) about Amtrak Abbreviations, one was newer then the other & I forgot which was which (this one was a much better read then the other  ).

peter


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## George Harris (Jun 5, 2012)

Wow! I had not looked at this thread until now. A very typical example of how the conversations on these threads turn. More discussion on airport codes than anything else. I will add mine to that subject and then go back to the original subject:

My home turf airport is Memphis, code MEM. When they opened an airport in Macau, for the geographically challenged, that is the former Portugese colony on the coast of China on the opposite side of the Pearl River estuary from hong Kong, it was given the code of MFM. At the time I wa working in Hong Kong with family in Taiwan. Had to be sure than it was clear when getting a ticket out of Taipei to M*E*M, not M*F*M.

Another item of confusion to some of the older crowd, such as me, are such acronyms as IMHO, which I take to mean "in my humble opinion."

Another series of confusion for some of the younger crowd is the habit of some of us to refer certain railroad lines by the names they had before the massive run of mergers of the last 20 to 30 years.


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## johnny.menhennet (Jun 5, 2012)

I know this is old but there are a few things I found worthy of mentioning. In the summer of 2007, we paid $60 flat to get from McPherson Square in central DC to Dulles.

On the airport codes as names issue, I regularly hear LAX, SFO, DFW, JFK, and slightly less frequently, I have heard PHX, PDX, MSP, and MIA used, but still frequently enough that I thought I should mention them. SFO is very common, and I do not call it anything but that when I am here in SoCal or in the Bay Area, and I am always completely understood. While I have never hear lax, I don't even remember hearing Los Angeles International either. I've grown up and known it to be universally used to call it LAX. Those X's at the end sure do make it easier to remember though. 

I also thought I should mention Denver. Whenever I am in town here, I almost always will hear someone say that they are flying to Denver. When I am w/family in Colorado, they almost always w/o fail will say DIA. I like that they use DIA, even though that is not even the real code! It is DEN, just like the pax train station, but I have never heard that used in airport/air-context once.


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## Shanghai (Jun 6, 2012)

There are a few other abbreviations that use commonly recognized Amtrak/Airport codes: *SOL* as an example!!


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## AutoTrDvr (Jun 6, 2012)

PerRock said:


> tp49 said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


For us divers, "SAC" is "Surface Air Consumption" (i.e. what's your consumption rate of breathing gas on the surface, as opposed to underwater which, due to pressure, is greater as you go deeper). As opposed to RMV - Respiratory Minute Volume, or "How many CuFt. of gas do you consume in a minute at a given depth?" Critical to know, in order to plan how much gas to bring on a dive, or how long/deep the dive can be, given the gas you're able to bring.


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## jis (Jun 6, 2012)

johnny.menhennet said:


> I also thought I should mention Denver. Whenever I am in town here, I almost always will hear someone say that they are flying to Denver. When I am w/family in Colorado, they almost always w/o fail will say DIA. I like that they use DIA, even though that is not even the real code! It is DEN, just like the pax train station, but I have never heard that used in airport/air-context once.


When the current airport was under construction it got the moniker Denver International Airport to differentiate it from Stapleton, the old airport. The abbreviation DIA has stuck from then. Both Stapleton and DIA had/have the IATA code DEN. There was a flash cut over from Stapleton to DIA, i.e. on day everything was flying to/from Stapleton and next day to/from DIA, so there was no time when two airports had the DEN code.


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## Ozark Southern (Jun 12, 2012)

It's nice when Amtrak and the airports share the same code, such as in STL. However, Kansas City is very different. The Amtrak station is KCY, whereas the airport is MCI. Amtrak's MCI station is in Michigan City, Indiana! To further add to the confusion, locals most often refer to the airport as KCI, for Kansas City International.


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## Steve P. (Jun 12, 2012)

I like your posts in bold. It's easier on my aging eyes.



Shanghai said:


> *Sorry, I meant a Drop Down File!!*
> 
> * *
> 
> *If you don't like to see my posts in Bold Type, just close one of your eyes.*


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## Phil S (Jun 13, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> sportbiker said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


My personal demand is that Puerto Ricans speak Spanish (I live half time over there). The well educated ones do indeed speak beuatiful Spanish. Many however think they're speaking Spanish when in fact they're using English words pronounced in Spanish. Utterly incomprehensible for me, often even for them.

My confusion centers around what to call the thing with a smokestack on the point of a train that provides the motive power and head-end electrical power - locomotive, loco, engine, unit, slug? What did I forget.

But I agree - learning the lingo is half the fun.


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## jis (Jun 13, 2012)

Ozark Southern said:


> It's nice when Amtrak and the airports share the same code, such as in STL. However, Kansas City is very different. The Amtrak station is KCY, whereas the airport is MCI. Amtrak's MCI station is in Michigan City, Indiana! To further add to the confusion, locals most often refer to the airport as KCI, for Kansas City International.


The Amtrak Codes and the Airport Codes are not produced by the same authority. Amtrak codes are derived from old railroad codes in some case and simply cooked up by Amtrak in others. The airport codes are administered by IATA and FAA, and also ICAO (4 letter codes).

The MCI code comes from the previous name of the airport, which was Mid Continent International. Actually it is kind of fun to figure out the origins of some of the strange IATA codes like ORD, MCO, MSY etc., and for extra point figure out what was the code for JFK before it became JFK.

Whether the airport code and Amtrak station code being the same is good or not depends on the situation. For example in Newark, it is probably a good thing that Newark Penn Station is NWK and Newark Liberty International Airport is EWR. It worked out well when a station was opened by the airport and given the code EWR without having to change the code for Newark Penn Station. BTW, the code for the other Newark Station - Newark Broad Street, which is an NJT station is BNW. The NWK code for Newark Penn predates Amtrak.

In New York one would be hard pressed to figure out which of the two airport codes should be applied to the originally two and now only one Amtrak station. Boston is another interesting case. It has three Amtrak stations BOS, BON and BBY, and the airport code happens to be BOS.

Then again, when the new Amtrak station adjacent to Miami Airport comes on line then the MIA code would nicely fit in. 

Then there are other places where it sort of works like in San Diego (SAN), Santa Ana (SNA), Los Angeles (LAX), Seattle (SEA though the airport is equally for Seattle and Tacoma), Portland OR (PDX), etc., except that the unaware could mistakenly believe that the airport and the train station are collocated and be unpleasantly surprised.

In general I think it is better if things that are not collocated do not share a code. But as I said, there is no mechanism at present to enforce any alignment or lack thereof between Amtrak station codes and IATA codes for an airport in the same city as the station. Indeed there are several stations that do have IATA codes that are very different from the Amtrak codes.


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## JayPea (Jun 13, 2012)

Spokane is one place where the airport code seemingly makes no sense. The Amtrak station code of SPK is straightforward, but their airport code is GEG. Their airport code came about because, before being renamed Spokane International Airport in 1965, the airport was called Geiger Field. And Geiger Field was named for Major Harold Geiger, a US military aviation pioneer who was killed in a 1927 plane crash.

My favorite airport code??? It's the code for the Sioux Gateway Airport in Sioux City, Iowa: SUX :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Texan Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

jis said:


> and for extra point figure out what was the code for JFK before it became JFK.


You mean Idlewild Airport (IDL)?



> Then there are other places where it sort of works like in San Diego (SAN), Santa Ana (SNA), Los Angeles (LAX), Seattle (SEA though the airport is equally for Seattle and Tacoma), Portland OR (PDX), etc., except that the unaware could mistakenly believe that the airport and the train station are collocated and be unpleasantly surprised.


On that note, has anyone tried to make a list of all Amtrak station codes that are also airport codes for their respective cities? Apart from the ones you listed, some I can remember offhand-

DAL - Dallas Love Field

BWI - Baltimore Washington International

AUS - Austin

SAT - San Antonio

ABQ - Albuquerque

and so on...



JayPea said:


> My favorite airport code??? It's the code for the Sioux Gateway Airport in Sioux City, Iowa: SUX :lol: :lol: :lol:


Not directly related to Amtrak, but on Indian Railways network there is a rail station called Seroni Road whose station code is... well.... SEX


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## jis (Jun 13, 2012)

Texan Eagle said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > and for extra point figure out what was the code for JFK before it became JFK.
> ...


Yep. And it was named after a Golf Course that it replaced.

In between for a while it was also known as New York International Airport, Anderson Field (though there was no change of IATA code AFAIK), before it got its present name and IATA code in 1963.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2012)

Texan Eagle said:


> Has anyone tried to make a list of all Amtrak station codes that are also airport codes for their respective cities? Apart from the ones you listed, some I can remember offhand-DAL - Dallas Love Field
> 
> BWI - Baltimore Washington International
> 
> ...


SAT is the San Antonio International airport while *SAS* is Sunset Station. BWI is no random coincidence as both codes are essentially referring to the same area and have a bus link and parking garage between them.



Texan Eagle said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > My favorite airport code??? It's the code for the Sioux Gateway Airport in Sioux City, Iowa: SUX
> ...


Sioux City Iowa is where United Flight 232 gave us an easy example of what can happen when you allow a manufacturer (McDonnell Douglas) to undermine their our safety mandates by carelessly routing multiple redundant systems into a single point of failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyJwX7FRV3g


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jun 13, 2012)

Texan Eagle said:


> On that note, has anyone tried to make a list of all Amtrak station codes that are also airport codes for their respective cities? Apart from the ones you listed, some I can remember offhand-
> 
> DAL - Dallas Love Field
> 
> ...


LAX- Los Angeles

BOS-Boston


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## Ryan (Jun 13, 2012)

JayPea said:


> Spokane is one place where the airport code seemingly makes no sense. The Amtrak station code of SPK is straightforward, but their airport code is GEG. Their airport code came about because, before being renamed Spokane International Airport in 1965, the airport was called Geiger Field. And Geiger Field was named for Major Harold Geiger, a US military aviation pioneer who was killed in a 1927 plane crash.


Newport News, VA is in the same boat. The Amtrak station is NPN, but the airport is PHF (Patrick Henry Field).


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