# STILL no 2013 Select Package - RIDICULOUS!



## VKurtB (May 20, 2013)

I am one of the Select passengers who never got their Select package. They said my correct address "wouldn't verify". I called in mid-March, and they said a new package would be going out after I changed my correct address to my business address. Here it is May 20 and I STILL don't have my Select package. This is nuts! They need to fire the contractor handling this. Surveys from Amtrak keep going to my home address and arrive just fine, but no Select package. Sheesh!


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## PRR 60 (May 20, 2013)

VKurtB said:


> I am one of the Select passengers who never got their Select package. They said my correct address "wouldn't verify". I called in mid-March, and they said a new package would be going out after I changed my correct address to my business address. Here it is May 20 and I STILL don't have my Select package. This is nuts! They need to fire the contractor handling this. Surveys from Amtrak keep going to my home address and arrive just fine, but no Select package. Sheesh!


Are you a member of Flyertalk? If not, go over there, register, and head to the Amtrak forum. Post this at FT, and an official AGR participant - AGR Insider - will respond. He will likely ask you to PM him with your specifics, and he has a great track record of making things happen.


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## VKurtB (Jun 19, 2013)

Just to let all the forum members know - this problem is STILL not rectified. Somebody at Amtrak needs to step up and go around the bureaucracy's inertia. I STILL don't have my 2013 Select package.


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## the_traveler (Jun 19, 2013)

As suggested, did you contact the AGR Insider on FT? (S)he are the official voices of AGR and the heads of AGR. If there is a problem, they are the ones who can resolve it! Please send them a PM over at Flyer Talk!


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## Ryan (Jun 19, 2013)

He did.

Not sure what the goal of starting threads here is.


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## the_traveler (Jun 19, 2013)

Ryan said:


> He did.


I don't see anywhere that the OP says he contacted the AGR Insider. PRR 60 suggested it, but all I see in the 1st post is that he contacted AGR (phone call?) and the 3rd post says it's still not received. Where does it say he posted on FT or PMed the AGR Insider? Maybe I missed it.


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## Ryan (Jun 19, 2013)

I read it on FT.


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## the_traveler (Jun 19, 2013)

OK. I haven't logged into FT for a couple of years.


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## AlanB (Jun 19, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I read it on FT.


Well he posted about the problem on FT, and Insider requested that he send him PM. However, I see nothing that indicates that the OP did indeed send a PM off to Insider. Not saying that he didn't do so, just that there is no confirmation from either side that a PM was sent.


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## Ryan (Jun 19, 2013)

True.

I did think it a logical assumption that he would have done so, given the exchange that you cite and the fact that he responded in the thread after (s)he asked him to send her the info.

I can't fathom bumping that thread and this one to complain without taking the time to send the information requested, but I guess it's possible.


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## amamba (Jun 19, 2013)

OP, what was the response from the AGR insider over at Flyer Talk?


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## VKurtB (Jun 19, 2013)

I PM'ed AGR Insider at FT as requested. She was extraordinarily earnest and has attempted to rectify this, to date to no avail. I believe the fulfillment house handling Select package fulfillment is jerking Amtrak around...., because they can. AGR Insider is now trying again, with the accompanying additional 4 week delay. One does not need to be a legislative researcher, which I am, to recognize crummy contractor work being done for an agency closely tied to government. It is quite the norm, unfortunately. Getting the contract is everything. Delivering a quality service only adds costs.

I believe I MAY get my 2013 kit eventually, right about time for it to expire. This problem did NOT need to happen. Other Amtrak mail reaches me just fine. Trip surveys, for example. Only Select mailings have this infernal problem due to an ill-advised and technically flawed USPS address pre-verification algorithm used by the contractor, who needs to be fired, like NOW.

To be crystal clear, AGR Insider's initial attempt to fix the situation failed and she's back up to bat again.


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## Ryan (Jun 19, 2013)

So what exactly is the point of complaining here? Amtrak's doing what they can to fix it.


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## VKurtB (Jun 19, 2013)

Sorry, I have the theory that fanboyism needs the occasional cold bright clear light of day shed upon it. Perhaps your mileage varies. I guess some people like Amtrak as a starting point and need to evangelize. If that's your thing, great. Amtrak works for me only insofar as it works. Besides, the banner at the top of my screen says AMTRAK UNLIMITED. Does yours say AMTRAK WORSHIP?


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## the_traveler (Jun 19, 2013)

FYI - It's not just AGR, Amtrak or the Government. Last week, I had a package shipped by FedEx. My address is 332 ________ Road, Apt 103. It was delivered fine. THE NEXT DAY, my sister was to receive a package from the SAME company via FedEx. Her address is 332 ______ Road, Apt A. FedEx called and said it could not be delivered - because the address was wrong and they can't locate it! HUH? We live in the same building and they found the building the day before!


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## Ryan (Jun 19, 2013)

You must be under the mistaken impression that we're all a bunch of mindless Amtrak cheerleaders here.

You couldn't be farther from the truth.


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## VKurtB (Jun 19, 2013)

Good to hear. I listen to and try to help people with all sorts of state government problems every day. Without people willing to speak up when systems fail, nothing could ever improve.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

"Discussion" covers a lot--good, bad, and ugly. In my months here, I've seen plenty of all three, but more of the good.

I'm glad someone is trying to help the OP. It's interesting that even Insider struck out the first time around, but is still on it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 20, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> FYI - It's not just AGR, Amtrak or the Government. Last week, I had a package shipped by FedEx...


Unless you've been fighting with FedEx since mid-March I don't see your point.



Ryan said:


> Amtrak's doing what they can to fix it.


How exactly is Amtrak fixing it? By making yet another four-week request?



Ryan said:


> You must be under the mistaken impression that we're all a bunch of mindless Amtrak cheerleaders here. You couldn't be farther from the truth.


It's not that AU is full of cheerleaders so much as we're hyper sensitive toward obvious criticism.


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

Okay, I feel that in exchange for receiving my rant on this issue, readers of this forum are entitled to know what caused this, and why I feel Amtrak or the fulfillment house they used are NOT blameless, although they may think they are in their highly bureaucratic mindset, whichever of them dropped the ball here.

When AGR Insider did a USPS search on my original and still correct home address, three ZIP+4 codes showed up. One is for the main mail slot. There are two others, on for a long defunct second floor business, and one for two former apartments on the third floor. The property was reconfigured as one unified property when we bought it back in 1979. No problems exist getting any other mail. But either Amtrak or its fulfillment house decided that if there were three ZIP+4 codes, AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE TO USE, THEY WOULD SEND TO NONE!!!! Who in the real world thinks that's a normal thought process?!?!?! I surely don't! There is only one mail slot. All three ZIP+4 codes serve that one slot. All will work just fine. Only two quasi-government semi-private related bureaucracies, Amtrak and the USPS, could POSSIBLY screw up something like this as badly as they have. Amtrak and USPS need to start thinking customer service as not just the BIGGEST thing, but the ONLY thing, and that's not happening, outside of the very wonderful and competent AGR Insider. There shouldn't have to be a "Insider" to fix the rest of Amtrak's bureaucratic screwups.

Hire good competent people and empower them to fix customers' problems. If Amtrak could make that one cultural change, their biggest problem would be beating away all the eager new ridership with a stick because there aren't enough seats.


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## Ryan (Jun 20, 2013)

I love it when people whose livelihood depends on the government rant and rave about how screwed up government is and how much better private industry is.

Doubly so when they impugn a whole group of people based on a single data point (or no data points at all).


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I love it when people whose livelihood depends on the government rant and rave about how screwed up government is and how much better private industry is.
> Doubly so when they impugn a whole group of people based on a single data point (or no data points at all).


Maybe the difference is that I'm a completely unprotected "at will" employee (I serve at the pleasure of the Chairman...), and not a union worker with an "it's not my problem" attitude. Everything's my problem in my job. The "poo" flows uphill as well as down. Heck, we even help people whose problem is 100% self-inflicted. It doesn't matter who's at fault; we fix things in legislative offices.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 20, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I love it when people whose livelihood depends on the government rant and rave about how screwed up government is and how much better private industry is.
> Doubly so when they impugn a whole group of people based on a single data point (or no data points at all).


True this for Certain! 

(Based on 30 years of Government/Contractor Work @ the Federal and State Levels! These Know Nothings seem to think that Chanting the Mantra that Private Industry is the Answer and the Evil Government is the Problem are waiting for the Black Helicopters to come take them to Secret Government Concentration Camps! :blink:


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## AlanB (Jun 20, 2013)

VKurtB said:


> Maybe the difference is that I'm a completely unprotected "at will" employee (I serve at the pleasure of the Chairman...), and not a union worker with an "it's not my problem" attitude. Everything's my problem in my job. The "poo" flows uphill as well as down. Heck, we even help people whose problem is 100% self-inflicted. It doesn't matter who's at fault; we fix things in legislative offices.


And yet you assume that AGR Insider is a protected union employee, which I can assure you is NOT the case. And you assume that the contract to the fulfillment house was let by a union employee, which again I can assure is NOT the case. And you assume that the fulfillment house, which is a private entity and not a government owned entity is using union workers. I don't know if they do hire union workers or not at the fulfillment house, although even if they do, the odds are that they're only the people producing the kits and not those responsible for dealing with the data sent over from AGR.

Look, I understand your frustration. I know that I would be very upset myself if I were still waiting for my Select Plus kit. But what are the alternatives here? Have AGR Insider fly to where ever this fulfillment house is to personally produce and take to the post office your kit? And at what cost? Or, fire the fulfillment house and inconvenience hundreds, if not more, of AGR members while they hire a replacement and get it up to speed just because your kit didn't show up?

This isn't something where one just snaps one's fingers and makes it work. And while the fulfillment house should undoubtedly be using a better mailing system, again that's not something that one just replaces with a click of a mouse button. Especially since they don't just serve AGR, they have many other customers too, all of whom would experience delays during any swap of mail verification programs. And I rather expect that AGR is probably not one of the house's bigger clients, meaning that they aren't going to go running out to get a new program either just because AGR lodges a complaint.

Frankly at this point probably the best that could be hoped for is that maybe the fulfillment house has some way to take a personal request and enter it into their system overriding the normal procedures or that the house has someway to override/enter a correction into the database for your address.


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## AlanB (Jun 20, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak's doing what they can to fix it.
> ...


Do you understand the concept that the fulfillment house doesn't just make 1 kit at a time? They're not going to just run down to the production floor and reset the machines to produce 1 AGR kit. Even if that kit is for VKurt who didn't get his kit months ago when he should have due to the fulfillment house's own problem.

We have no idea how AGR Insider processed the request, what steps they took to try to ensure that it does get past the mail verification program, or anything else. All we know is that Insider sent through another request and that the fulfillment house runs off AGR stuff once a month or so. Throw in a week for the USPS to move the envelope when its done and you're at 4 weeks.


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## Acela150 (Jun 20, 2013)

After reading through this whole topic.. I gotta ask.. Are you sure you earned select status for the year? I think that's the only good explanation for not receiving a packet. Call me whatever but my gut says you didn't earn Select Status.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 20, 2013)

Acela150 said:


> After reading through this whole topic.. I gotta ask.. Are you sure you earned select status for the year? I think that's the only good explanation for not receiving a packet. Call me whatever but my gut says you didn't earn Select Status.


The fact that the OP earned Select Status is not in question. AGR Insider acknowledged that.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 20, 2013)

My two cents:

The elite membership credentials and materials are benefits earned by what has to be the top 5th percentile of all Amtrak customers. As such, one would think that a process would be in place to ensure, to the extent possible, that the materials owed to those customers are sent in a timely manner. The default failure in the mailing process should not be to do nothing and wait for the call (and in this case, get the call, fail again, and do nothing again).

Were I in charge of the world (shudder at the thought), I would have the fulfillment company (likely a private firm, by the way) prepare an exceptions report for every mailing. The exceptions report would list all the unfulfilled mailings and the reason why those mailings were not made. Then, someone could parse that report, highlight silly stuff like duplicate ZIP+4 codes, manually override the exception, and get those sent out. I’d rather have a handful of actual mailings end up in the wrong place than have all the questioned mailings not even go out in the first place for fear that a couple might get mislaid.

The other aspect is that there should be a way for AGR to force out a single or handful of special elite membership mailings on an ASAP basis rather than have to simply dump issues like this back into the hopper for the next regular process. Yeah, I guess that would cost a few dollars more, but in cases like this, they have already failed to provide a promised benefit to one of their best customers, so that would seem to me to be a justification of the cost, and an indication to those customers that Amtrak cares.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 20, 2013)

OP, I'm just curious if you've tried to get the USPS to correct the zip code problem at your location. If they correct it in their database, then wouldn't that solve the problem, though not necessariloy for this particular mailing?


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> OP, I'm just curious if you've tried to get the USPS to correct the zip code problem at your location. If they correct it in their database, then wouldn't that solve the problem, though not necessariloy for this particular mailing?


That's my next project, having been blissfully unaware of these two long-dormant or obsolete ZIP+4 codes until yesterday. I'm left wondering still, though, why no one else has ever had problems getting mail to me. A thorough review last night revealed various mailings using two of the three Zip+4's, but not the third. My incredulity is to the logic of if there are three, don't send to ANY! That piece of brilliance is due to a decision by either Amtrak or their fulfillment vendor.


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

Acela150 said:


> After reading through this whole topic.. I gotta ask.. Are you sure you earned select status for the year? I think that's the only good explanation for not receiving a packet. Call me whatever but my gut says you didn't earn Select Status.


Yes, in fact I was within shouting distance of Select Plus.


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

By the way, My "union employee" rant is NOT about AGR Insider, who is a peach among peaches, nor aimed at the mailing house vendor per se, although Dante Aligheri may have written of a special level of hell for them had he known them, but rather at the seemingly disinterested front line phone "support staff" (allegedly) at the Philly-based AGR Select "special" phone line. If they're the cream of the crop, for Select members, I shudder to imagine....


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

Here's the counter to the very good argument, "What do you expect? Running one for you only?"

This is not a regular new rider generic AGR membership card. This is a Select package. We're not quite half way through the year. How many Select packages could they possibly need to run? If someone is newly Select eligible already in 2013, chances are they're going to be Plus or Executive by year-end anyway. Eligibility is based on calendar year business. At the BEST circumstances, needing to run ANY Select kits is likely pretty close to a one-off by its very nature.


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

FWIW, on FlyerTalk, there is another AGR client, who goes by the handle "ne52" having EXACTLY the same problem I am. There is a serious "decision tree" issue at work here. I would like to know that Amtrak will put as much effort into correcting this on a macro basis, so it doesn't repeat, for ANYONE, as AGR Insider is on a "retail level" micro basis. I'm sure AGR Insider has other duties she can better apply herself to. Life is too short to tie good people up with cleaning up the messes made by poor systemic decision-making.


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## AlanB (Jun 20, 2013)

VKurtB said:


> By the way, My "union employee" rant is NOT about AGR Insider, who is a peach among peaches, nor aimed at the mailing house vendor per se, although Dante Aligheri may have written of a special level of hell for them had he known them, but rather at the seemingly disinterested front line phone "support staff" (allegedly) at the Philly-based AGR Select "special" phone line. If they're the cream of the crop, for Select members, I shudder to imagine....


Actually you could find yourself talking to someone in California or Philly. In fact I believe that the larger AGR facility is in California; so the odds are good that you're getting someone in CA.


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## AlanB (Jun 20, 2013)

VKurtB said:


> Here's the counter to the very good argument, "What do you expect? Running one for you only?"
> This is not a regular new rider generic AGR membership card. This is a Select package. We're not quite half way through the year. How many Select packages could they possibly need to run? If someone is newly Select eligible already in 2013, chances are they're going to be Plus or Executive by year-end anyway. Eligibility is based on calendar year business. At the BEST circumstances, needing to run ANY Select kits is likely pretty close to a one-off by its very nature.


I fully understand that you're not a new member. Doesn't change the fact that they run off new cards for all program levels once a month. And if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that there are easily 20 to 30 newly minted select members each month of the year. Probably a dozen or so newly minted Select Plus members per month and 2 or 3 new Select Exec's each month. And I would not be at all surprised to learn that my estimates are low. They're not gearing up the machinery for just you.

Yes, February is their biggest month no question. But new people join AGR all the time and start riding enough to quickly rise through the ranks. Other's take an extra trip that maybe they hadn't expected to take and that bumps them up a level; etc. If AGR was only requesting 1 or 2 new cards a month, I rather doubt that the vendor would even accept such a small order.


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## Anderson (Jun 20, 2013)

It seems to me that there is a modest issue of "procedural autopilot" here. It is nothing terribly unusual (sadly), but the easiest way out of this would be to allow you to pick either one of the Zip+4s for use, drop the Zip+4 in this case, or allow you to pick a different Zip+4.

Sadly, this sort of thing is not terribly uncommon, but at least it isn't "just" AGR or Amtrak (or, indeed, public sector entities).


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## PRR 60 (Jun 20, 2013)

AlanB said:


> VKurtB said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the counter to the very good argument, "What do you expect? Running one for you only?"
> ...


However, after dropping the ball twice, AGR owes this member some accommodation, even if that means "gearing up the machinery." They are not building a Ferrari. They are printing off a card, adding some paperwork, and putting it in an envelope. Right now this material is almost four months late. If the vendor will not accept such a small order, they need another vendor. Providing required one-off's on demand should be part of the deal.

And, while they're at it, why not provide Select through 2015 as a gesture of good will?


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## VKurtB (Jun 20, 2013)

Well, goldern it, PRR 60, that's a right neighborly suggestion, but as a daily LNC-HAR Keystone commuter on monthly passes, Select is a no challenge status. The only question is whether I have enough a la carte trips to swing PLUS.


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## VKurtB (Jun 21, 2013)

AlanB said:


> VKurtB said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, My "union employee" rant is NOT about AGR Insider, who is a peach among peaches, nor aimed at the mailing house vendor per se, although Dante Aligheri may have written of a special level of hell for them had he known them, but rather at the seemingly disinterested front line phone "support staff" (allegedly) at the Philly-based AGR Select "special" phone line. If they're the cream of the crop, for Select members, I shudder to imagine....
> ...


Yes, but the Philly local dialect is fairly distinctive, and I grew up in the Philly media market. The Philly "at-ee-tood" is also pretty unmistakable.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 21, 2013)

VKurtB said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > VKurtB said:
> ...


Wadda ya mean by dat?


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## VKurtB (Jun 21, 2013)

I mean I wuz dere at da Iggles game when Sandy Klaws was booed and pelted wit snowballz, awright? Geez!


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## amamba (Jun 21, 2013)

I can absolutely tell when I hear that distinctive accent if a rep is from Philly.


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## Acela150 (Jun 21, 2013)

amamba said:


> I can absolutely tell when I hear that distinctive accent if a rep is from Philly.


Didn't realize Philadelphians had accents. We Philadelphians have attitude.


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## VKurtB (Jul 11, 2013)

Just to "close the circle", AGR Insider did come through. My Select package arrived July 9, with coupons expiring *July 31, 2014!!* (A nice touch.) As of now, my posted and unposted TQP's for 2013 are 4,634 with another 200 in booked and purchased trips TQP's. With my August monthly pass, I'll be already over the top for Select for 2014. Plus, here I come!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 11, 2013)

Glad to hear it got straightened out!


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## crescent2 (Jul 11, 2013)

Me too. Insider's the bomb!


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