# Tipping Protocol



## Tracy (Mar 6, 2016)

My wife and I will be traveling by train for our 25th Anniversary. Trip is in a roomette from Omaha to Chicago, next leg is Chicago to Washington DC. The first leg we will only be in the sleeping car 9 hours, so what would a appropriate starting point for a tip be,if any for the car attendant?

Secondly, we will have a layover in Chicago and plan on checking our bags at the Metropolitan Lounge and doing a little sightseeing around the neighborhood. What is a appropriate starting point for tipping the Metro Lounge Attendant? $2-3 dollars per bag?

v/r,


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Mar 6, 2016)

I'd say no more than $5 for the first attendant - depends on if s/he does anything for you during that 9 hours.

Bag check tip in the lounge = $1-2 per bag is what I tip.

Tipping is pretty much a individual thing, but I found it helpful to hear what others suggest.

If you get a meal on the #6, don't forget to tip the same as you would if you had to pay for the meal even though the meal is included in your roomette price.


----------



## Radvlad (Mar 6, 2016)

Aren't the dining staff paid well? I don't understand why they need to be tipped. Also, since meals are included in sleeping car fares, why should those passengers be expected to tip the wait staff? I understand tipping the sleeping car attendant, but I don't understand tipping the wait staff.


----------



## the_traveler (Mar 6, 2016)

Tipping is personal, but consider if you win a contest for dinner for you and your wife/husband/SO at the Ritz. It is a $150 dinner, but because you won it your cost was $-0-. Do you not tip, just because your cost was $-0-? :huh:

Yes, the servers get paid more than those at your local restaurant, but I doubt very much they work from 6 am until 9-10 pm every day and are away from home 2-6 days in a row!


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 6, 2016)

Radvlad said:


> Aren't the dining staff paid well? I don't understand why they need to be tipped. Also, since meals are included in sleeping car fares, why should those passengers be expected to tip the wait staff? I understand tipping the sleeping car attendant, but I don't understand tipping the wait staff.


I'm starting to wonder the same thing. I'm a lifelong tipper myself, that's just how I was raised, but after discovering that Amtrak's dining staff are in fact paid extremely well for waitstaff and after realizing that the majority of my disappointment with Amtrak comes from my experiences and interactions with the dining car staff I'm running out of reasons to keep tipping them. It's not as if my tips ever improved the performance of a bad Amtrak crew, at least insofar as I could ever tell.



the_traveler said:


> Tipping is personal, but consider if you win a contest for dinner for you and your wife/husband/SO at the Ritz.


You mean a Ritz-Carlton? I've visited and enjoyed meals at several Ritz-Carlton hotels and it amuses me that you would casually compare a class act like that with a runaway dumpster fire like Amtrak. It's hard to imagine two more opposite business models and service standards among US companies. I don't generally win meals or services because I don't enter such contests, but if I somehow won a free meal from Amtrak I'd probably just give it to someone else at this point.


----------



## KmH (Mar 6, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> Tipping is personal, but consider if you win a contest for dinner for you and your wife/husband/SO at the Ritz. It is a $150 dinner, but because you won it your cost was $-0-. Do you not tip, just because your cost was $-0-? :huh:
> 
> Yes, the servers get paid more than those at your local restaurant, but I doubt very much they work from 6 am until 9-10 pm every day and are away from home 2-6 days in a row!


That's not a valid analogy because the meals are not free.

Sleeper car passengers pay for their meals in the dinning car as part of the cost of sleeper berth accommodations.

Amtrak long distance train staff get generous time off after a trip. They are railroad union members aren't they?

IIRC, California Zephyr on-board staff get something like 6 to 8 days off after a trip.

It's my understanding OBS also get overtime pay if the train runs late.


----------



## JayPea (Mar 7, 2016)

As for meals, the bottom line is that it is a personal thing. I tip at meals at the same rate as I would at a restaurant based on what the meal would cost. I do it because I want to, not because someone else tells me I should. And don't worry if sparks and fur starts to fly on this thread.  For some reason people can get passionate about deciding for someone else how to spend (or not spend) their money. It is your own personal choice.


----------



## Eric308 (Mar 7, 2016)

In my past I've had many service type jobs....bartender, busboy, dishwasher, server (waiter), hotel shuttle limo driver, hotel concierge, cab driver. I was paid a decent hourly wage on some of these jobs, but really looked forward to tips and worked extra hard to make the guests as satisfied as possible. As for me, I don't care if the Amtrak dining room folks make $50 an hour. I will always tip accordingly......side note....Debbie Reynolds tipped me $200 once for loading her luggage in the limo and dropping her at the airport. She also had 12 bags!


----------



## Hal (Mar 7, 2016)

Radvlad said:


> Aren't the dining staff paid well? I don't understand why they need to be tipped. Also, since meals are included in sleeping car fares, why should those passengers be expected to tip the wait staff? I understand tipping the sleeping car attendant, but I don't understand tipping the wait staff.


While tipping has unfortunately become us paying the workers wages it was meant to show appreciation. It is a cultural thing in the US. Amtrak waiters and attendants do get a decent wage so when you tip them it is a matter of etiquette in my opinion. One thing to consider is that they are in the category of tipped workers under US law. So taxes are withheld on the tip income based on some kind of formula. Like they assume what the tip income is. I think 8 per cent. So they are going to be taxed 8 per cent of even if you leave nothing. So I would certainly tip them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jis (Mar 7, 2016)

In India, on the premier trains where food is included in the fare and is served at your seat, after the last meal of the trip the support staff (both food service and general service) come around typically with some after meal candies or such and collect any consolidated tips that people want to give them. It is pretty well organized and relatively non obtrusive and eliminates the need for dealing with each individual separately. Works rather well. But then those trains have relatively few on/offs en route and they are from specific short turn cars where the quotas are, so I suppose they can take care of that in those cars before each stop.


----------



## Fred Wis. (Mar 7, 2016)

I work in a business where i do not receive tips. Also probably less than average wage. Not looking for sympathy, i love my job and could never see wanting another profession. I work hard to produce a quality product, because i know somewhere a consumer is enjoying something i worked at. Because of this,I struggle with the decision on tipping on a regular basis. Over the years my wife and i have worked out a system to handle this dilemma. I put down the tip , then a quick glance to her face tells me whether i am being cheap or not. I think many couples probably use this system. What i have found, is that service on the train is much better, for the next meal after a good tip on the first meal. You {original poster)mentioned this is a special event trip.(anniversary) Make it extra memorable for your spouse, by trying to encourage the best possible service for her. The memories you make on this trip will be with you for the rest of your lives. This is one time to splurge , just a little extra.


----------



## Fred Wis. (Mar 7, 2016)

Oh, and i forgot the most important part of tipping, I strongly believe that a verbal "thank you " for good service should accompany the tip. Either before or during the act of the tip. Enjoy your adventure!


----------



## City of Miami (Mar 7, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> they work from 6 am until 9-10 pm every day


That is simply not true and I cannot understand why people keep repeating it. Anyone who has been on a train for any 24 hour period can see that the dining car is closed to you for looooong parts of the day while the crew either lounges around at the tables they reserve for themselves gossiping, texting, eating/drinking OR the diner is completely deserted.


----------



## HARHBG (Mar 7, 2016)

Having now made 4 long distance round trips since NOV '14 and ridden 10 different named trains I too, have come to question the wisdom of tipping the dining car employees.

I've read the Loomis tomes, read posts on this site and others, ..... all imploring people to tip 20% of the printed menu price. Having owned 5 different restaurants over the years, I can write with confidence that I know all there is to know about tipping and food service.

My experience has been I can count on one hand the number of food servers I thought _*earned*_ a tip. Most have a sour, rude, surly, attitude, uninterested in doing anything more than flopping down a plate of food and disappearing.

NOT PROFESSIONAL by any measure !!!

Anymore, today I will only tip if I get reasonable, friendly, courteous service.

And NO !!, I don't expect or want anyone to k*ss my arse.

In addition, the VERY uncomfortable occurrence of being seated at the same table with strangers who will get up and not leave a tip OR when I leave a tip then leave first...............?????.

And please don't lecture me about this thing called "Community Seating" That's just a joke. When the staff in the dining car insists on smashing and stuffing everyone into six tables and ten tables or half a dining car sits unused???

And I'm sure some drooling Amtrak Foamer will immediately write that a dining car only has "X" number of tables, not 16, (10 + 6)

Tipping _on trains _was ORIGINALLY "*T*o *I*nsure *P*romptness" AND to compensate the fact that many, many MANY years ago, BLACK PORTERS were paid pennies to work the trains. REALITY CHECK HERE PEOPLE !!!!!!

TODAY these people earn between $16 to $26 AN HOUR, guaranteed 40 hour week with gold-plated benefits and STILL the majority of them act like it's a royal pain to do their jobs and the overwhelming attitude is they are doing you a "favor" to be even bothered with you.

Now if I got the same level of service that any of us get when we go to a restaurant with menu prices comparable to anAmtrak Dining Car in a regular brick and mortar restaurant then, ..........

And that is from staff that is being paid minimum wage OR LESS, as tipped positions almost everywhere has a much lower minimum wage. Here in Pennsylvania the minimum wage is $7.75 per hour, BUT a tipped position, minimum wage is $2.36 per hour !! YES, in 2016, $2.36 per hour, right here in PA., Google it if you don't believe me !!

And while you're at it, Google the minimum wage for tipped positions IN YOUR STATE.

I strongly suspect there is an overwhelming atmosphere of hostility between Amtrak Employees and Amtrak Management, ... but if that's the case,... and I really do think that IS what is gong on within the entire Amtrak system, .....

DON"T take it out on the fare-paying passengers!!

I can already imagine the collective howling by all the very vocal Amtrak "Loyalists" on this site who will respond with every excuse and condemnation of what I write. I especially like the oft quoted excuse that , "...but they're away from home for days at a time..." or "....they have such a hard job carrying plates of food on a moving train..." and so much more. _*PLEASE !! THAT"S THE JOB !!!*_

I'm so sorry that I actually have the audacity to expect them to DO THE JOBS THAT THEY ARE BEING PAID TO DO.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Mar 7, 2016)

HARHBG: I agree with you that SOME Amtrak OBS don't deserve to be tipped, but in my 40+ years of riding Amtrak ( and over 70 years of Passenger Train riding) the Majority of the OBS Employees have been Adequate to Outstanding.

I can count on two hands the turds or bad attitude OBS I have encountered and most of these were Chicago based!

Since you have been the owner of food service businesses, I hope you paid your employees more than thst disgraceful $2.36 an hour and also shared the profits with your staff since they are the ones that did the work and kept you in business?!!!

I'm by no means an Amtrak apologist, but as a life member of two Labor Unions, I find Labor bashing playing into hands of the greedy Billionaires that are the real problem in this country. Of course YMMV!


----------



## Manny T (Mar 7, 2016)

Always tip on Amtrak for every meal in the dining car. (And when you pick up things in the cafe car too.) Because we live in the USA and it is cultural and we are adults. Like letting women off the elevator first. Or giving your seat to a senior on the bus. For the same reason you do not tip your MD after he completes your exam. It's cultural, we don't tip medical professionals. But we do tip barbers after a haircut.

We're adults, we understand the cultural milieu in which we live. Persons who serve us in a sit down meal setting get tipped. Didn't like the service--tip less.

These little cultural niceties that we ALL observe grease social exchanges and make for a more pleasant society. Like saying please, thank you and gezuntheit (when appropriate). Why exercise bad behavior on Amtrak and possibly create a hostile environment for yourself and other passengers? We're talking a couple of bucks--worth it to keep the social environment tranquil.


----------



## jis (Mar 7, 2016)

Seems to me that we are trying to determine what is the applicable cultural norm. So to claim that it is the cultural norm therefore tip is kind of like begging the question, no? Clearly there appears to be a lack of universal agreement on what the cultural norm is as it applies to these situations, in today's day and age, as opposed to sixty years back.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2016)

Manny T said:


> Always tip on Amtrak for every meal in the dining car. (And when you pick up things in the cafe car too.) Because we live in the USA and it is cultural and we are adults. Like letting women off the elevator first. Or giving your seat to a senior on the bus. For the same reason you do not tip your MD after he completes your exam. It's cultural, we don't tip medical professionals. But we do tip barbers after a haircut. We're adults, we understand the cultural milieu in which we live. Persons who serve us in a sit down meal setting get tipped. Didn't like the service--tip less. These little cultural niceties that we ALL observe grease social exchanges and make for a more pleasant society. Like saying please, thank you and gezuntheit (when appropriate). Why exercise bad behavior on Amtrak and possibly create a hostile environment for yourself and other passengers? We're talking a couple of bucks--worth it to keep the social environment tranquil.


There's more to tipping than blind allegiance to old traditions. I was raised to tip primarily because absent my tips the staff would be stuck in an impossible situation. Almost anyone can get a job waiting tables but If it takes all of your time just to scrape by you have little or no chance for future improvement with more sophisticated skills for a better career. That concern doesn't seem applicable to Amtrak OBS. I'm glad they have good benefits and a living wage already and I have no interest in taking any of that away from them. I simply fail to see why they would need my tips in addition to their wage and benefits. In other situations I might still tip for a stronger drink or a special request or a unique dietary requirement, but on Amtrak there is no such thing as a stronger this or a special that. Everyone receives the exact same thing prepared the exact same way regardless of what you say or do or spend. The idea that open discussion and informed decisionmaking breeds rude behavior seems silly to me. If anything it was the behavior of the staff that put me on a path toward questioning my prior assumptions.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Mar 7, 2016)

To answer the OP,

I would tip $10 to the Sleeping Car Attendant ($10 per night is what I use as a base, I will tip $5 or nothing for less than average service, up to $40 total for exceptional service).

I always tip in the Diner. Typically $2-3 for breakfast, $3-5 for lunch. $5 for Dinner. That's my base. I'll adjust down a couple of dollars if service wasn't good.

In the fall of 2015 I rode the Capitol, Zephyr westbound, Empire Builder, Coast Starlight, Zephyr East Bound, and City of New Orleans (various trips in between work and a visit to Yellowstone / Tetons.) On each of those trips I had pleasant, tip earning servers in the diner. The LSA on the east bound zephyr was quite bossy but the waiter was very professional.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Mar 7, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> To answer the OP,
> 
> I would tip $10 to the Sleeping Car Attendant ($10 per night is what I use as a base....


Except they're only riding during the day time, therefore no turning the beds unless the OP wants to take a nap. So, I think $5 is sufficient.


----------



## the_traveler (Mar 7, 2016)

Yes, you're right that the diner closes at 10 am, but do the servers go home or do you see the SAME servers at 11:30 for lunch? :huh: And when the diner closes at 3 pm, do you see the SAME servers at 5:30 for dinner, or is it another crew? :huh: And when the diner closes at 9 or 10 pm, do you see the SAME servers the following morning at breakfast at 6:30 am - or do they go home and a new crew comes on? :huh:


----------



## Bob Dylan (Mar 7, 2016)

Also keep in mind that the chef, who works by himself now a days, reports for duty before the other Food Service staff, as early as 530am for Breakfast.

And the Cafe LSA is on duty, by himself, for as long as 16 Hours with only meal breaks.

Most Amtrak passengers don't realize that OBS are only guaranteed 3-4 Hours of Sleep each night on LD Trains, they are not lounging around in luxury in tbe Transdorm or room.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Also keep in mind that the chef, who works by himself now a days, reports for duty before the other Food Service staff, as early as 530am for Breakfast.


I never even knew I was supposed to tip the chef. The only time I've seen a chef on a Western train is when they're having a smoke break on the platform. Is that when I should approach them?



Bob Dylan said:


> And the Cafe LSA is on duty, by himself, for as long as 16 Hours with only meal breaks.


In my experience the cafe attendant primarily stands by the register and rings up items you bring them. That reminds me of a convenience store or concession stand cashier. They have never offered to bring my food to me like a waiter or waitress would. According to standard tipping etiquette a walk up convenience store clerk isn't a tipping position.



Bob Dylan said:


> Most Amtrak passengers don't realize that OBS are only guaranteed 3-4 Hours of Sleep each night on LD Trains, they are not lounging around in luxury in tbe Transdorm or room.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem but this sounds like an issue for a union to address rather than a reason for customers caught in the crossfire to ante up more money.


----------



## Manny T (Mar 7, 2016)

The question is whether to leave a dollar or 2 or 5 on the table in the dining car after a meal, sometimes a 3 course meal, and people are evaluating it based on various criteria like the length of the server's day or the arduousness of his/her tasks.

In my view this is completely wrong. We tip for meal delivery at table in the USA. Period. In other countries the rules vary.

If I don't take this approach, then next time I am in an elevator, instead of letting the women exit first, I will have to evaluate how rushed they appear to be compared to me, how young or old, how their day seems to be going, whether they were pleasant or not on the ride up (or down), and so forth. Further, other males on the elevator may disagree with my analysis and try and block me when I try to exit before the women. Without clear but unwritten rules, which we all know, chaos ensues.

Social norms are an unwritten contract and bind us. I take jis's point above, I understand what he says about begging the question. Could trains possibly be an exception to the general rule of tipping for delivery of a meal? Not just waiters but home delivery too. The pizza guy and so forth, the bartender who opens a beer and places it on the bar, they all get tipped. You're going to exclude Amtrak personnel from this? Well, I just don't think so.


----------



## SarahZ (Mar 7, 2016)

Manny T said:


> *If I don't take this approach, then next time I am in an elevator, instead of letting the women exit first, I will have to evaluate how rushed they appear to be compared to me, how young or old, how their day seems to be going, whether they were pleasant or not on the ride up (or down), and so forth. *Further, other males on the elevator may disagree with my analysis and try and block me when I try to exit before the women. Without clear but unwritten rules, which we all know, chaos ensues.
> 
> Social norms are an unwritten contract and bind us.


This is a great analogy.


----------



## jis (Mar 7, 2016)

The point though is that at the end of the day each individual will follow whatever they believe the norm is, or should be. It is quite evident that a single norm across the board does not exist. For example, Manny should absolutely do whatever he believes is proper, but should not expect everyone else to believe the same thing to be proper unless he wants to set himself up for frustration or disappointment.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> Manny T said:
> 
> 
> > *If I don't take this approach, then next time I am in an elevator, instead of letting the women exit first, I will have to evaluate how rushed they appear to be compared to me, how young or old, how their day seems to be going, whether they were pleasant or not on the ride up (or down), and so forth. *Further, other males on the elevator may disagree with my analysis and try and block me when I try to exit before the women. Without clear but unwritten rules, which we all know, chaos ensues. Social norms are an unwritten contract and bind us.
> ...


In my view it's a confusing analogy that comes with a surprisingly exaggerated warning. Amtrak staff deserve the same _common courtesy_ as anyone else and I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. The insinuation that common courtesy requires money to change hands is both erroneous and absurd. Manny's depiction of a demure woman getting stuck behind a confused man is both silly and outdated. No woman I know would simply stand and wait for a perpetually befuddled man to resolve a self imposed mental paradox. Nor would they take umbrage if such a man simply got out of the way without making a scene out of it. Rather than devolving into chaos at the thought of having been wronged over something insignificant they would simply pass by and go about their business like any other functioning adult.


----------



## SarahZ (Mar 7, 2016)

I was referring to the bolded, not the rest of it. That's why I bolded it.


----------



## Radvlad (Mar 7, 2016)

Do we tip flight attendants for bringing us our meals or our snacks? No we don't. This is why I'm confused about tipping the Amtrak dining staff. Especially since they are paid well. Don't get me wrong, if I come across servers that are happy, upbeat, and make the dining experience pleasant, I will tip to show my appreciation. But if I come across rude, surely employees like many on here have described, I'm not tipping a penny.


----------



## FormerOBS (Mar 7, 2016)

You may not believe in tipping the dining car employees, but Amtrak thinks you do believe in it, and Amtrak tells the IRS how much they think you tipped, whether you did or not. It's not my place to tell you what you ought to do, but IRS wants their money and they will get it from the employee.

The hours on duty are a bit deceptive, and it's hard to come up with a brief explanation that covers all eventualities because different trains follow different schedules. While the employees may not work 100% of the time, their shifts are split so that there are few long periods of inactivity. At night, it is rare for a dining car employee (or a SCA) to get 8 hours' continuous rest. OBS employees are paid only for hours actually worked. For those times you see them off duty between shifts, they are not being paid, even though their time is not truly their own because they are not home with loved ones. There is no paid "held away" time for hours not actually worked.

Overtime is paid on a monthly basis. I don't know the specific requirements now in force. If you work less than a certain number of hours, you will not get any overtime, even if you were on a train that was ungodly late some time during that month. If you missed a trip due to illness, vacation, or other reasons, this reduces monthly hours so that hours worked on a late train during that month are paid at straight time.

Tom


----------



## jis (Mar 8, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> I was referring to the bolded, not the rest of it. That's why I bolded it.


Actually, even the bolded portion is somewhat silly. If there are five men by the door and four women in the back, why it makes any sense to figure out the necessary contortions to allow the women to exit first instead of just naturally exiting in the most convenient order completely beats me.

Such decisions should be guided by practicality and what the situation presents rather than by dogma.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Mar 8, 2016)

jis said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > I was referring to the bolded, not the rest of it. That's why I bolded it.
> ...


I agree. I appreciate "ladies first" but don't expect it, especially like in your scenario.


----------



## Manny T (Mar 8, 2016)

Some follow up points:

1. No analogy is perfect. Analogies are illustrative only.

2. Answering the question "Chicken or fish" and being handed a tray on an airplane (no tip) is not the same as sitting down in an Amtrak dining car and being served drinks and a 2-3 course meal (tip).

3. The likelihood of tipping in the US is directly proportional to the extent of service received: meal at a sit down restaurant (very likely) vs. pick up at a fast food counter (unlikely). Amtrak dining car most resembles former.

4. Academic papers show tipping in restaurants improves service for all customers. How? It is the direct substitute for management supervision of service. How's that? In a restaurant setting, service is difficult for management to observe in real time--each service transaction is unique, occurs once, is seen by the customer, and management is almost never present [at the table] to observe and monitor. Hence, customers are in the best position to monitor AND REWARD good service, "punish" bad service. Can we rely on Amtrak management to supervise dining car service? Passengers tipping plays a role. Net net result is probably to improve service marginally.


----------



## SarahZ (Mar 8, 2016)

I don't *expect* to be let off the elevator first. That's ridiculous.

I was simply trying to pay Manny a compliment.


----------



## tonys96 (Mar 8, 2016)

I tip on Amtrak exactly the same as I do in other circumstances. If the service was excellent and courteous, I tip more than the 20%. If not, I tip whatever my heart tells me to tip.

On Amtrak, if I get that "eyeroll" when asking for that second Diet Pepsi....the tip drops considerably. :unsure:


----------



## Cina (Mar 8, 2016)

Part of the problem I have (since I'm mildly neurotic when it comes to how other people see me), is an Amtrak waiter going to feel slighted or see me as a jerkface if I don't tip? Or are they going to think, "Oh, I make way more than a normal waiter, so it's NBD." If I leave with a smile and a thank-you only to a good wait staff, but don't leave a tip, am I sending an unintended message? This is why I tip. I worry about being seen as discourteous if I don't, regardless of how much the staff makes.


----------



## FormerOBS (Mar 8, 2016)

I always tried to avoid judging the people I served. If they tipped, I was always grateful. If they didn't, I was pretty sure it was either because they didn't have the money to spare, or did not know that tipping is traditional, or I had disappointed them. Assuming I had time for reflection on it, I would try to remember whether I had done anything wrong. If so, I resolved to do better next time, and to make it up to them at the next meal if possible. If not, I just moved on. Dwelling on stuff like that is counterproductive. It can skew your viewpoint. It can turn your thoughts negative, and it does absolutely no good in the long run.

Tom


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 9, 2016)

FormerOBS said:


> You may not believe in tipping the dining car employees, but Amtrak thinks you do believe in it, and Amtrak tells the IRS how much they think you tipped, whether you did or not.


That's a lousy situation but it seems to me that a far more rational approach would be to implement a living wage and do away with the expectation of tipping. Other industrialized countries have done it so why not us?



Manny T said:


> 1. No analogy is perfect. Analogies are illustrative only.
> 
> 2. Answering the question "Chicken or fish" and being handed a tray on an airplane (no tip) is not the same as sitting down in an Amtrak dining car and being served drinks and a 2-3 course meal (tip).
> 
> ...


I live in Texas. Some facets of old fashioned chivalry are still alive and well here. Like many social interactions it comes both with positive aspects (compassion, humility) and negative connotations (pride, superiority). At this point the concept of opening doors and/or stepping aside for women is so ingrained that I'd have to actively concentrate to avoid doing it automatically. What has never occurred to me is that someone could use this simple social courtesy to beat other people over the head about their lack of a _perfect_ tipping record. Especially since we're talking about an extremely limited situation where the usual tipping goals (livable wage, improved service) either do not apply or are far less relevant. I'm still going to tip in all the usual places because 99% of the time tipping is still relevant. It's only those occasions when I'm on an Amtrak train that tipping no longer makes any sense to me.



Cina said:


> Part of the problem I have (since I'm mildly neurotic when it comes to how other people see me), is an Amtrak waiter going to feel slighted or see me as a jerkface if I don't tip? Or are they going to think, "Oh, I make way more than a normal waiter, so it's NBD." If I leave with a smile and a thank-you only to a good wait staff, but don't leave a tip, am I sending an unintended message? This is why I tip. I worry about being seen as discourteous if I don't, regardless of how much the staff makes.


This post was amazingly prescient considering where the _other_ tipping thread went.


----------



## Manny T (Mar 9, 2016)

Sorry my use of an analogy didn't work for you DA. Point is, all the work on the subject regards tipping in the USA as a matter of etiquette, or to use your term, simple social courtesy. That some social courtesies should be ingrained in your behavior (opening doors etc.) and others optional or no longer relevant (tipping in the dining car) shows the contradiction involved in your position.

And I wonder why the goal of improved service is no longer relevant in your opinion. Can it be a coincidence that (a) people complain about service in the dining cars and (b) a segment of diners think tipping for service there is optional? Imo it's much more likely that there is a connection between these factors.


----------

