# Raton Pass Closed



## printman2000 (Jun 12, 2011)

I just read a report on a list the Raton Pass has been closed because of wildfires. #4 has apparently been turned back to Albuquerque.


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## yarrow (Jun 12, 2011)

not surprising. i can imagine how fire could roar through there. glorieta pass too, might be an exciting trip back to abq


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## henryj (Jun 12, 2011)

Amazing, that leaves the Eagle/Sunset as the only western LD train still running.


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## railiner (Jun 12, 2011)

There is still the VIA Canadian, when it runs, if you want to consider it as an alternate to the EB.


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## Amtrak George (Jun 12, 2011)

THE DEVIL MUST BE AFTER AMTRAK: First the Builder, then the Zephyr, now the Chief. Floods to the north, fires to the south. Lord help us. If there is any consolation, I saw elsewhere that the BNSF Transcon (via Amarillo) is still open so I hope they can detour the Chief that way.


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## GlobalistPotato (Jun 12, 2011)

They can always reroute the Chief south via Amarillo. They've done that before when something happened on the Raton Pass.


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## printman2000 (Jun 12, 2011)

If anyone gets word of a transcon detour, let me know. Would love to catch it coming through Amarillo.


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## gswager (Jun 12, 2011)

I've checked on NM Wildland Fire Info about it. Yup, it is called "Track Fire" which is located north of Raton. I hope it doesn't burned a lot of railroad ties at Amtrak expense.


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## rogers55 (Jun 13, 2011)

We have tickets for the SWC departing LAX tomorrow night. Should be interesting.

The Amarillo route should be a nice diversion, we have been through Raton many times.

How will that affect arrival time in Chicago.


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## Ryan (Jun 13, 2011)

Looks like Amarillo it is.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 13, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Looks like Amarillo it is.



How will that affect #3 into ABQ?


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## gswager (Jun 13, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Ryan said:
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> 
> > Looks like Amarillo it is.
> ...


It will not be affected into ABQ. It has a wye south of ABQ with conductor in rear of train while the engineer is in the front.


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## gswager (Jun 13, 2011)

Printman2000, I do know what time the train will go through Clovis on an eastbound trip, about 7:00 pm. Do you know what time the westbound will go through Amarillo?


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## VentureForth (Jun 13, 2011)

NOW IS THE TIME TO RUN THE TEXAS EAGLE DAILY TO LAX!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2011)

Amtrak George said:


> THE DEVIL MUST BE AFTER AMTRAK: First the Builder, then the Zephyr, now the Chief. Floods to the north, fires to the south. Lord help us.


This has absolutely nothing to do with Sky Beard and Horn Head.


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## jis (Jun 13, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> NOW IS THE TIME TO RUN THE TEXAS EAGLE DAILY TO LAX!


Got $800 million dollars handy somewhere?


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

gswager said:


> Printman2000, I do know what time the train will go through Clovis on an eastbound trip, about 7:00 pm. Do you know what time the westbound will go through Amarillo?


In the past it has been around 9:00am.


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## VentureForth (Jun 13, 2011)

jis said:


> VentureForth said:
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> > NOW IS THE TIME TO RUN THE TEXAS EAGLE DAILY TO LAX!
> ...


For what? Equipment? The same equipment that is not being used right now. Crew? The same crew that's getting paid for sitting around waiting for the lines to open. It'd take about a day to reroute equipement sent to the TE to get back to the CZ, and about 2 days to get back to the EB. Possibly less if the timing is right and the trains make it to CHI just right.

Meanwhile, there are folks who want to get to California and with 3 of the 4 arteries in jepoardy, someone's gotta start thinking out the box.

But I'm sure Amtrak is taking advantage of the down time to get some good deep cleaning done on the equipment, performing deferred maintenance, etc.


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## jis (Jun 13, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> jis said:
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You seem to have conveniently forgotten that there is no way no how that UP will allow more than thrice weekly service on its tracks without extracting as much money as they can from Amtrak or whoever.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jun 13, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> jis said:
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Union Pacific has said in order for the Eagle to be a daily train Amtrak would need to pay for 800 million dollars in track work. Now maybe if Amtrak said they just need to do it temporarily until things on the other lines calm down UP could make an exception, but otherwise its going to take at least 800 million to get the daily TE running.


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## Alice (Jun 13, 2011)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Union Pacific has said in order for the Eagle to be a daily train Amtrak would need to pay for 800 million dollars in track work. Now maybe if Amtrak said they just need to do it temporarily until things on the other lines calm down UP could make an exception, but otherwise its going to take at least 800 million to get the daily TE running.


It seems to me that right now there is high demand for tracks, for all users, and low supply, a good time to raise prices, or, like BNSF, say they need 48 hours without passengers "for safety" for even more closed-track events.


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## jis (Jun 13, 2011)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Union Pacific has said in order for the Eagle to be a daily train Amtrak would need to pay for 800 million dollars in track work. Now maybe if Amtrak said they just need to do it temporarily until things on the other lines calm down UP could make an exception, but otherwise its going to take at least 800 million to get the daily TE running.


Even in the unlikely situation that they do make an exception, I am sure they will make sure that it runs 12 hours late, just so as to be able to say, see, we told you so. We really do need that extra capacity to run it daily. 

I suppose one could extract one more day of service out of them since in the past they have run SAS - ALX 4 times a week for a period.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2011)

UP is not in the business of making exceptions. They are much, much larger than Amtrak and have far more political clout than Amtrak could ever dream of. They are currently being sued for everything from price fixing to erroneous fuel surcharges but today's Union Pacific is so large that any judgment against them is unlikely to hurt them enough to cause any serious pain. They are virtually guaranteed to remain solvent regardless of any wrongdoing they may or may not choose to engage in.


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## frugalist (Jun 13, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Looks like Amarillo it is.


Three questions:

1. What scheduled stops will this detour miss?

2. Any guess as to when the regular route will be reopened?

3. How will this affect arrival time into LAX?


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## colobok (Jun 13, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> I just read a report on a list the Raton Pass has been closed because of wildfires. #4 has apparently been turned back to Albuquerque.


Oh no! I have a reservation for 06/20. I was particularly interested in seeing Raton Pass because I read a lot of speculations that this route will be gone soon. I understand that detour route doesn't have much scenery, if any, correct?

Where can I read about projections how long Raton Pass will be closed?

Amazing that amtrak.com doesn't show any info about detour at all!


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## Trogdor (Jun 13, 2011)

jis said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > Union Pacific has said in order for the Eagle to be a daily train Amtrak would need to pay for 800 million dollars in track work. Now maybe if Amtrak said they just need to do it temporarily until things on the other lines calm down UP could make an exception, but otherwise its going to take at least 800 million to get the daily TE running.
> ...


You're still forgetting the inconvenient fact that Amtrak does not have enough qualified T&E crews on that route to cover a daily service. You'd need approximately twice as many conductors, engineers, etc. Even if you could take an Albuquerque or Minot or Omaha crew and fly them to El Paso, it would take a few weeks to get them qualified on the route.


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## Anderson (Jun 13, 2011)

Assuming that this is a lengthy diversion, how would this affect ABQ/FLG times?


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

#3 departed Amarillo at 10:35


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> #3 departed Amarillo at 10:35


PV on the rear.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> You're still forgetting the inconvenient fact that Amtrak does not have enough qualified T&E crews on that route to cover a daily service. You'd need approximately twice as many conductors, engineers, etc. Even if you could take an Albuquerque or Minot or Omaha crew and fly them to El Paso, it would take a few weeks to get them qualified on the route.


If I understand correctly if a UP crew is traveling an unfamilar route on the UP network they need a pilot for the first two or three runs or so, correct? So what I'm curious about is why would an Amtrak crew that normally runs on UP track would need a _few weeks_ of preparation before they could even start service? Not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to understand why this would be so different.


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

gswager said:


> Printman2000, I do know what time the train will go through Clovis on an eastbound trip, about 7:00 pm. Do you know what time the westbound will go through Amarillo?


Greg, are you going to go see it in Clovis? If so, could you report here the exact time it goes through? That will help me guesstimate arrival time here.


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## MrFSS (Jun 13, 2011)

*HERE* are some pretty good pictures of the area around Raton and downtown Raton. Put it on slideshow if you like.


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## rtabern (Jun 13, 2011)

I was planning to do a daytrip from Chicago to Galesburg, IL and back today using #381 and #4.

When I went to check status of #4 last night, I noticed it came up with a 'service disruption'.

I found out that my #4 made it to almost the Raton Pass... had to back up to ABQ... and then went on the detour route through the Oklahoma and Texas panhaldes.

Opting not to do the bus... or a 12 hour late train... I just cancelled.

Checking the map:

http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/scripts/getmap.pl?mapname=West

It's sooooooooo weird to see no Empire Builders, California Zephyrs, and Southwest Chiefs on the map!! I dont know if I ever saw that before all at one time like that.

I guess I'm glad I have no major Amtrak trips planned right now...


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## RPE (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks for the pictorial update


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## gswager (Jun 13, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> gswager said:
> 
> 
> > Printman2000, I do know what time the train will go through Clovis on an eastbound trip, about 7:00 pm. Do you know what time the westbound will go through Amarillo?
> ...


I don't know yet. It may be a spur of moment to check it out or not. I think I put the time when Colorado/Kansas were closed due to heavy snow several years ago on this AU forum so I'll look for it.

Found it: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/7954-34-to-detour-via-amarillo/ I went there only once in January 2007. It came at 6:34 pm and you said that it hasn't arrived yours. So I'm assuming you miss it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2011)

rtabern said:


> It's sooooooooo weird to see no Empire Builders, California Zephyrs, and Southwest Chiefs on the map!! I dont know if I ever saw that before all at one time like that.


Maybe this is just a preview of what's coming in another year or few. NARP is currently warning of a nearly zeroed-out budget courtesy of the House Appropriations Subcommittee. Should be interesting to see the next Amtrak funding battle coming down the pipe. Perhaps in the not-too-distant future we'll all be fondly reminiscing about the _good times_ when only half the LD network was down.


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## frugalist (Jun 13, 2011)

frugalist said:


> Ryan said:
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> > Looks like Amarillo it is.
> ...


Anyone?


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

frugalist said:


> frugalist said:
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I assume all stops between Albuquerque and Newton. Arrival into LAX is a big unknown.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 13, 2011)

How is this detour affecting OTP of the #3?


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 13, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > It's sooooooooo weird to see no Empire Builders, California Zephyrs, and Southwest Chiefs on the map!! I dont know if I ever saw that before all at one time like that.
> ...


I'm sure this is in the back of a lot of our minds. :help: Makes me want to break open the piggy bank and ride, ride, ride...


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## GlobalistPotato (Jun 13, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > It's sooooooooo weird to see no Empire Builders, California Zephyrs, and Southwest Chiefs on the map!! I dont know if I ever saw that before all at one time like that.
> ...


Gosh, you're a pessimist... hboy: I wouldn't be surprised if the House would zero out Amtrak's budget, but I'd want to say that Amtrak has more of a following today than they did back in the 1990s and such.

The most likely way Amtrak's LD routes get cancelled complete is if there's a complete dollar failure or shutdown of government, and trust me, lack of Amtrak service would be the LEAST of what we'd have to worry about...  :help:



Rail Freak said:


> How is this detour affecting OTP of the #3?


Status Maps just say "service disruption"


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## Rail Freak (Jun 13, 2011)

gswager said:


> Rail Freak said:
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> > Ryan said:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

The # 4 comes thru ABQ ,drops off passengers, does the wye turn around and becomes the #3 picking up pax in ABQ headed to LAX?????


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

No. 4 is wyed and then sent back down to the transcon through Amarillo and continues to Chicago.


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## AKA (Jun 13, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> jis said:
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Its nice to have a dream. :lol:


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## frugalist (Jun 13, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> frugalist said:
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Does that mean #3 would run normally from Chicago to Newton, then run on the detour non-stop to Albuquerque, then continue its normal run into Los Angeles?


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## Rail Freak (Jun 13, 2011)

I guess by 4:45 tomorrow, I should have this figured out!!!! :giggle:


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

frugalist said:


> printman2000 said:
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Yes.


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## Steve4031 (Jun 13, 2011)

The second track in abo canyon opened just in time.


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## gswager (Jun 13, 2011)

UPDATE: the fire has reached Colorado and I-25 is still closed on both directions, so are the railroad tracks. Burned approx. 6,000 acres (1 sq mile equals 640 acres) and it's still at 0% containment.


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## Anderson (Jun 13, 2011)

Again...how is this doing to times into FLG/ABQ westbound and the timetable in general eastbound? I know that running "limited" from Kansas into NM may cut _some_ time off of things, but I'm not sure what the reroute does.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 13, 2011)

GlobalistPotato said:


> Gosh, you're a pessimist... I wouldn't be surprised if the House would zero out Amtrak's budget, but I'd want to say that Amtrak has more of a following today than they did back in the 1990s and such.


I have watched passenger rail in America contract and then stagnate for nearly four decades. It's true that Amtrak has more customers today than several years ago but they also have fewer political allies and they're even further in the red now than before. In my view that means bad things for Amtrak. Maybe in your view that means good things for Amtrak. Either way I think we can agree that time will tell. Most of the AU forum seems to be convinced that nothing can ever take Amtrak down completely. I happen to disagree with that view and I've given Amtrak a maximum life expectancy of fifteen years. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but my gut says this ship is in trouble and will have sunk long before I draw my last breath.


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

Just got home from watching #4 pass through town. She entered the Southside around 9:15pm. Made a very brief stop at the BNSF depot for a crew change and left the northwest part of town around 9:45.


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## Steve4031 (Jun 13, 2011)

How far is that from Kansas city? If you are talking Amarillo, I think 4 is a bit late.


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2011)

Steve4031 said:


> How far is that from Kansas city? If you are talking Amarillo, I think 4 is a bit late.


Yes Amarillo. Not sure how long it takes to get to KC. As far as the reroute goes from the past, it is right on time.


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## colobok (Jun 14, 2011)

Where can I find the info about #3 arrival to ABQ and LAX via detour?

Amtrak.com is absolutely irrelevant to this. They don't even show the time of today's arrival to ABQ on the status page. Is it so difficult to display?


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## gswager (Jun 14, 2011)

colobok said:


> Where can I find the info about #3 arrival to ABQ and LAX via detour?
> 
> Amtrak.com is absolutely irrelevant to this. They don't even show the time of today's arrival to ABQ on the status page. Is it so difficult to display?


Yes, it is difficult due to lack of explanation or lack of features on its software. Any stops between ABQ and I believe Newton, KS are excluded because the train is on a detoured route.

Amtrak website doesn't say much, so most of AU members use Status Maps.

I'm surprised that today's departing #4 from LAX did not showed, so my speculation that it was cancelled. If it showed all the way to Gallup or even ABQ, then most likely it'll go for detoured route.


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## AlanB (Jun 14, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Again...how is this doing to times into FLG/ABQ westbound and the timetable in general eastbound? I know that running "limited" from Kansas into NM may cut _some_ time off of things, but I'm not sure what the reroute does.


With no stops, other than crew changes, and higher overall running speeds it should have minimal impact on the arrival times at all stations still being serviced. Now of course the one train that had to backup to ABQ won't be so fortunate as it lost considerable time no doubt backing and waiting for permission to run the other route.


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## AlanB (Jun 14, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > You're still forgetting the inconvenient fact that Amtrak does not have enough qualified T&E crews on that route to cover a daily service. You'd need approximately twice as many conductors, engineers, etc. Even if you could take an Albuquerque or Minot or Omaha crew and fly them to El Paso, it would take a few weeks to get them qualified on the route.
> ...


While I'm far from an expert on this, I think that it takes far more than 2 or 3 runs for any crew to become qualified on a section of track. UP or otherwise doesn't matter.

Being qualified means that you have to basically know where every signal is, every grade crossing, slow orders, etc. And for the conductor, they have to be able to look out the window of a coach and know exactly where they are. That's not easy when you can't see the mile markers and very much of what's ahead of you.

I suspect that it takes something more like 2 or 3 weeks to become qualified on a route.

Additionally one has to consider that a "pilot" is simply another engineer who is qualified on that track. UP doesn't exactly have dozens of engineers just sitting around to ride as pilots for Amtrak. And then there is the bill that Amtrak will get for all those pilots; UP or any RR doesn't supply them for free.


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## AlanB (Jun 14, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> Crew? The same crew that's getting paid for sitting around waiting for the lines to open.


As was noted in one of the EB disruption topics, the crews aren't getting paid for sitting around. Short of minimum hour guarantees, if they're not on a train they aren't getting paid.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 14, 2011)

Well, just got up & still half asleep. I have a flight out of Tampa this morning to ABQ to catch the #3. Should I go or not? If yesterday's #3 did'nt go that means no #3 out of ABQ today, correct? Thanx!


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## Rail Freak (Jun 14, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Well, just got up & still half asleep. I have a flight out of Tampa this morning to ABQ to catch the #3. Should I go or not? If yesterday's #3 did'nt go that means no #3 out of ABQ today, correct? Thanx!


Got hold of Amtrak & they said I should have no problems catching the #3 to LAX this afternoon. So, I'm writting this from the Tampa Airport!  I came very close to canceling everything.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 14, 2011)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Union Pacific has said in order for the Eagle to be a daily train Amtrak would need to pay for 800 million dollars in track work. Now maybe if Amtrak said they just need to do it temporarily until things on the other lines calm down UP could make an exception, but otherwise its going to take at least 800 million to get the daily TE running.


Steve, and others: let us remember that 3 major transcOn routes are closed; not just for Amtrak but to freight, as well. The last thing any of the cl1 s will do right now is ignore their own mares nest Of logistics problems to Amtraks benefit


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## frugalist (Jun 14, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Well, just got up & still half asleep. I have a flight out of Tampa this morning to ABQ to catch the #3. Should I go or not? If yesterday's #3 did'nt go that means no #3 out of ABQ today, correct? Thanx!
> ...


I'm glad you decided to go. That's what I would've advised if I had read your OP before you made your decision. 

Please come back to this thread and let us know what time you get into LAX tomorrow. Are you connecting to the CS? If so, and if #3 was late into LAX, let us know that you made your connection. I wonder if they'll hold #14 for a late #3, or if they'll bus you to a station farther up the line. Curious minds want to know. [We're making that connection in about 3 weeks.]


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## henryj (Jun 14, 2011)

I read where they lost several bridges due to the fire on the Raton route. So until or if those are ever replaced the detour may turn out to be permanent. Wichita and Amarillo may have just received transcontinental rail service like it or not.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

henryj said:


> I read where they lost several bridges due to the fire on the Raton route. So until or if those are ever replaced the detour may turn out to be permanent. Wichita and Amarillo may have just received transcontinental rail service like it or not.


Can you post a link? I have not been able to find any info on actual rail damage.

I am currently staked out waiting for #3 to pass me just NE of Amarillo.


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## henryj (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > I read where they lost several bridges due to the fire on the Raton route. So until or if those are ever replaced the detour may turn out to be permanent. Wichita and Amarillo may have just received transcontinental rail service like it or not.
> ...



Here is a link to the ABQ Journal. http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/06/14/abqnewsseeker/i-25-remains-closed-due-to-fire.html. A post on Train Orders said the siding east of the tunnel burned and possibly the signals. The fire is called the 'track fire' because it is burning along the track row between Trinidad and the summit tunnel. Doesn't sound good, but details on the status of the rail infrastructure are hard to find right now as the fire is still burning there.

jf


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

Just got back from chasing #3. She went through downtown Amarillo about 10:30am.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

By the way, all three SWC's I have seen through here had 4 coaches on the rear.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

henryj said:


> printman2000 said:
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That link (for me) did not work. Went to a page not found. I searched their site and found an article. I still have not seen anything "official" that says there is track damage.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

I have seen this statement on many news sites...



> The Daily Southwest Chief service, which runs between Chicago and Los Angeles, will continue to run, using motorcoaches and commuter trains for detours.


What commuter trains are they talking about? The New Mexico Rail Runner is the only commuter train on the route but I cannot think of where they would use it. Unless they are using it to get passengers to Lamy. Lamy is never mentioned as a missed station either.

Of course, I leave from Lamy in less than two weeks so this has got my mind going!


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## VentureForth (Jun 14, 2011)

And the only reason to go to Lamy is to get to Santa Fe which the NM Railrunner already serves.

But it is conceivable that rather than pulling into ABQ and backing up, they just stay on the TransCon and let folks transfer to the Railrunner to get to ABQ. Of course, the biggest problem with that is ABQ is a major station stop with crew change, checked bags and even the occasional train wash.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> And the only reason to go to Lamy is to get to Santa Fe which the NM Railrunner already serves.
> 
> But it is conceivable that rather than pulling into ABQ and backing up, they just stay on the TransCon and let folks transfer to the Railrunner to get to ABQ. Of course, the biggest problem with that is ABQ is a major station stop with crew change, checked bags and even the occasional train wash.


They will continue going up to Albuquerque and wyeing the train. They also refuel there.

I go to Lamy and it is not to get to Santa Fe.


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## Anderson (Jun 14, 2011)

You know, I'm about to book my trip on the SWC. As much as I want to run through Raton Pass again, there's a part of me that is half hoping for the detour...there's just something I like about a train running non-stop for a _really_ long time (in this case, it sounds like about 14 hours with just crew changes).


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## VentureForth (Jun 14, 2011)

Printman2000, if you have a reason to go to Lamy and stay in Lamy (or at least not go to Santa Fe), I envy you. It's a beautiful place to hike, and even railfan (well, at least it used to be...seems to be very little traffic other than Amtrak now).


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## GlobalistPotato (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> VentureForth said:
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> > And the only reason to go to Lamy is to get to Santa Fe which the NM Railrunner already serves.
> ...


They can always use a NPCU/Cabbage Car, allowing the train to be in push-pull mode between Belen and ABQ.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

GlobalistPotato said:


> They can always use a NPCU/Cabbage Car, allowing the train to be in push-pull mode between Belen and ABQ.


Assuming you are talking about the SWC, that would not work. Most Superliners do not have the control pass through cabling to allow push/pull service. A few have been fitted with it(used on the Heartland Flyer and California trains), but most have not.


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## RPE (Jun 14, 2011)

What is the full routing of the detour. Does it stay on the other route until Ellinor or Newton on the East End?


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## AlanB (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> henryj said:
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Link fixed; it had an extra period on the end.


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## pennyk (Jun 14, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Well, just got up & still half asleep. I have a flight out of Tampa this morning to ABQ to catch the #3. Should I go or not? If yesterday's #3 did'nt go that means no #3 out of ABQ today, correct? Thanx!
> ...



I hope everything works out for you.


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## henryj (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> Just got back from chasing #3. She went through downtown Amarillo about 10:30am.


Thanks printman. I am going to Colorado this weekend and plan to overnight in Vaughn, NM so I was wondering what time the SWC might pass by. Looking at the old timetables for #1 & #2 I am guessing that #3 will pass through between 2-2:30PM and #4 between 3-4PM. They should pass each other between Abo and Vaughn. I will try and catch them Saturday afternoon or Sunday. Depending on just how much damage the Raton line suffered this detour could be going on for some time, I hope at least through the weekend anyway. If it's still happenning I will be returning the next Friday.

To answer one of the questions above, my understanding from reading the news releases is that points between ABQ and Santa Fe will be served by the Railrunner commuter trains. Lamy not included. The rest of the route will either get no service or see a charter bus as in the case of Las Vegas, Raton and Trinidad. It said the Lamy shuttle will not run but it did not say that Lamy itself will have bus service.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

henryj said:


> To answer one of the questions above, my understanding from reading the news releases is that points between ABQ and Santa Fe will be served by the Railrunner commuter trains. Lamy not included. The rest of the route will either get no service or see a charter bus as in the case of Las Vegas, Raton and Trinidad. It said the Lamy shuttle will not run but it did not say that Lamy itself will have bus service.


There are no Amtrak stops between Albuquerque and Santa Fe so I am still unsure as to what commuter trains they are talking about.


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## henryj (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > To answer one of the questions above, my understanding from reading the news releases is that points between ABQ and Santa Fe will be served by the Railrunner commuter trains. Lamy not included. The rest of the route will either get no service or see a charter bus as in the case of Las Vegas, Raton and Trinidad. It said the Lamy shuttle will not run but it did not say that Lamy itself will have bus service.
> ...


The commuter train reference is only for the Railrunner as it is the only commuter train in NM and the stop they are referring to is Santa Fe since they also mention that the Lamy shuttle will not run. The Lamy shuttle was the access to Santa Fe.


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## Train2104 (Jun 14, 2011)

According to Amtrak's site, there's still service EMY-DEN, CHI-MSP, and SEA/PDX-East Glacier Park.

Where are those trains on the status map?


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## bretton88 (Jun 14, 2011)

It probably means this. You can take the RailRunner to Santa Fe or the Shuttle to Las Vegas/Raton. The shuttle bus probably bypasses Lamy.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 14, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> According to Amtrak's site, there's still service EMY-DEN, CHI-MSP, and SEA/PDX-East Glacier Park.
> 
> Where are those trains on the status map?


I'll bet the status map program can't find that information. I'm sure it wasn't programmed for such irregular operations.


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## RPE (Jun 14, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> Train2104 said:
> 
> 
> > According to Amtrak's site, there's still service EMY-DEN, CHI-MSP, and SEA/PDX-East Glacier Park.
> ...


I believe that is because the maps run off the Amtrak information extract, and as soon as you get a reroute, Amtrak just presents the entire train as a Service Disruption. (This is how it appears if you look up the Status on the Amtrak site)


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## PaulM (Jun 14, 2011)

gswager said:


> UPDATE: the fire has reached Colorado and I-25 is still closed on both directions, so are the railroad tracks. Burned approx. 6,000 acres (1 sq mile equals 640 acres) and it's still at 0% containment.


You never know what timely scoop you get from AU members. I was planning to drive from Denver to Santa Fe tomorrow via Raton Pass (where is the Chief Connection when you need it?). Looks like I'll have to take the more scenic US 285.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

Just watched #4 come through Amarillo at 8:45pm.


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## henryj (Jun 14, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> Just watched #4 come through Amarillo at 8:45pm.


Does it even slow down? Isn't the Santa Fe station still there. I think it housed a resturant last time I was there.


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## printman2000 (Jun 14, 2011)

henryj said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Just watched #4 come through Amarillo at 8:45pm.
> ...


Yes. They all stop to do a crew change. Usually at the BNSF depot.

The passenger station is still there. Nothing but storage for an auction house now.


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## gswager (Jun 14, 2011)

*If* Amtrak decide to use transcon route permanently, is that Amarillo passenger station ready to be used for passengers or need some work such as platform, restrooms, etc?

Clovis has a station which is used for train museum, mostly model railroads. I think the platform is ready but may not be long enough. It may be the last stop before the next stop- ABQ station.

Any other potential stations along that line?


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## bretton88 (Jun 15, 2011)

Wichita, which has a nice station, that doesn't need much work to be ready for passengers. It would immediately become one of the nicer stations in the system.


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## cirdan (Jun 15, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> GlobalistPotato said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, you're a pessimist... I wouldn't be surprised if the House would zero out Amtrak's budget, but I'd want to say that Amtrak has more of a following today than they did back in the 1990s and such.
> ...


Amtrak is going to stay running as long as there is a will to keep it running and the willingness to stump up the necessary cash to cover the deficit.

The more people ride Amtrak and value Amtrak, the more that is going to reflect in political support.

Remember it's not just DC that supports Amtrak but many states also support it. I'd call that a broad front of support. And they're not all doing it out of pure altruism but (especially the states) are seeing some benefit come out of that support.

Maybe the overall defecit is rising, but is not the deficit per passenger falling, And maybe that's not something that Amtrak can put on their balance sheet but in the overall bigger picture of the economy and society that benefit is flowing back and delivering value.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

gswager said:


> *If* Amtrak decide to use transcon route permanently, is that Amarillo passenger station ready to be used for passengers or need some work such as platform, restrooms, etc?
> 
> Clovis has a station which is used for train museum, mostly model railroads. I think the platform is ready but may not be long enough. It may be the last stop before the next stop- ABQ station.
> 
> Any other potential stations along that line?


The Amarillo depot has been out of service for 40 years (since Amtrak started). It is now privately owned by a guy who runs an auction house. Right now he is just storing stuff in it. The owner was open to the idea of using for Amtrak service back when they were trying to get the Caprock Express going so he may still be. The station sits on a curved section of track right near a BNSF yard. Here is an image...

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Amarillo,+Potter,+Texas&ll=35.208359,-101.826128&spn=0.001602,0.003484&t=h&z=19

As long as BNSF can get them on the track closest to the station, should not be a problem with a little more paving.

As far as other stops, I know Panhandle has an old Santa Fe station. It is currently being used half by BNSF and half as the city town hall. Not sure it would be a good stop though. Pampa would be a decent stop. They do have an old depot. Not sure what it is used for.

If I were Amtrak and were doing the reroute, I would simply say if you want us to stop, provide us a station at the towns cost. Otherwise, no stop.


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## henryj (Jun 15, 2011)

Santa Fe retained many of it's stations along the line unlike most other railroads. The stations at Vaughn and Mountainair NM are both still being used. I don't know about Ft Sumner. However, I would think Clovis and Belen are the only viable stops on that portion. Looking at old timetables, the SF Chief, #'s 1&2, stopped at Wichita, Wellington, Waynoka, Pampa, Amarillo, Clovis and Belen with conditional flag stops at Alva, Woodward,Canadian, Hereford, Fort Sumner and Vaughn.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

Saw #3 pass through Amarillo about 10:30am. Had three PV's on the rear. Also, only had three coaches instead of the four. I guess with the CZ getting ready to start back they took the extra one away.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

Quick check on Google maps shows Canyon and Hereford also still have ATSF depots.


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## gswager (Jun 15, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> Quick check on Google maps shows Canyon and Hereford also still have ATSF depots.


I've seen ATSF depot in Hereford and is being used by BNSF crews. Imagine that the city riders would get a good whiff of Hereford air- feedlots, esp. after the rains. It's a very busy industrial areas- ethanol plants and grain elevators.

I don't think Belen station would be a good one because Belen yard is a very busy yard for fueling and maintenance checkpoints.

I haven't look at Ft. Sumner station closely and I believe it is still there. I think it's one track instead of double tracks due to single track crossing over Pecos River. There is more in Vaughn which is used by maintenance crews and Melrose for communications. However, the population is very sparse.

I'll look for eastbound Amtrak tonight in Clovis. Also, I'll look up old SF Chief timetables for comparison.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

Looking at Amtrak posted times, it is taking 3 & 4 between 14-14.5 hours to go from Newton to Albuquerque via the transcon.

Normal routing schedule time...

#3 - 13:10

#4 - 14:49

I know there is quite a bit of track work north of Amarillo that slows it down. However, it does not seem that the transcon is saving any time especially since it only making one stop and that is for a crew change. Course, it may have something to do with BNSF working them in to the schedule as opposed to it being a regularly scheduled time slot.


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## bretton88 (Jun 15, 2011)

I think time-wise, its no different than now. Its all a matter of what might increase the passenger counts, Is BNSF willing to take Amtrak on a favorable regular schedule on the transcon, and is the infrastructure ready for Amtrak? My guess is that right now, BNSF isn't allowing maximum passenger speed for Amtrak to allow for easier dispatching. More likely they're running at 60-70mph, instead of 79.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

There has been an accusation by someone claiming the Raton fire was started by a train. The only train to go by that day was #3 and it went by a few minutes before the fire was reported started.

Yesterday as I was chasing #3 North of Amarillo, a crew member had the dining car window open (the one on the outside door) smoking a cigarette. He was actually holding the cigarette out the window when not sucking on it. You know how little rain we have had in this area and the kind of drought we are in? It is just now hitting me how stupid an act this was for this OBS. Wish I had taken a picture. Though I would not want any bad press for Amtrak.


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## Ryan (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow.

I read the same thing, and if this is what kills service to Raton, I'll be a very unhappy camper.


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## rogers55 (Jun 15, 2011)

Just arrived in CHI on the SWC of Mon 13th. We were only about 1/2 hour late.

The biggest delay was doing the Wye at ABQ. After Wye we backed into ABQ then

took the Amarillo route. Stopped at Clovis, NM and Amarillo but no passengers

on or off. Back on the normal route at Newton, KS. Later, crossing the DesMoines

River flood water was actually on the tracks and they had a track runner go in front

of the train to check it out. Slowed to 10 mph but got through ok.

It is kind of nice to be in a fairly small group of people who have taken the Amarillo

route.

Train crew said several bridges were burned near Raton but I don't know how reliable that

information is. The crew didn't seem to be very well informed.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

rogers55 said:


> Just arrived in CHI on the SWC of Mon 13th. We were only about 1/2 hour late.
> 
> The biggest delay was doing the Wye at ABQ. After Wye we backed into ABQ then
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update. I saw your train go through Amarillo!


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## henryj (Jun 15, 2011)

Appreciate all the info on the detour. I am going up that way Saturday so if it is still detouring I will be looking for it. I would think if there are burned bridges we are looking at a long detour. My guess is they are just slotting the SWC in between freights as much as possible and running around 70mph. If anyone is taking these trains in the next few days and has their GPS with them they can confirm. Wish I had time to buy a ticket from ABQ to Newton and back just to ride the route(but then who wants to spend 24 hours in Newton?). At least they know how to wye the train and get into ABQ if this situation should become permanent. Should that happen I would guess they will just bank the Trinidad to Lamy portion of the route until someone decides on it's future much like UP did Tennessee Pass.

As for starting the fire, I have thought it might just be the train itself. Often diesel engines emit sparks as in hot carbon flakes that can start a fire and occassionally do and the engines do work rather hard pulling the 3% grade up to Raton. If one of the crew threw out a cigarette that would be really dumb.


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## printman2000 (Jun 15, 2011)

Just saw #4 pass by here in Amarillo. Had four coaches on the rear and a deadheading Amfleet coach in front of the baggage car.


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## gswager (Jun 16, 2011)

Didn't see #4 tonight. I guess I arrived to late to catch the Amtrak train! However, I saw weird thing- two freight trains were behind one red signal, about 4 cars length between those two trains.


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## gswager (Jun 16, 2011)

Looks like I-25 through Raton Pass will be opened tomorrow (Thursday) am with restricted speed of 45 mph. It's from Inciweb.org. The fire did not reached the Raton Tunnel.

EDIT: Fixed the link


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## Ryan (Jun 16, 2011)

Even better, it sounds like the damage to the tracks isn't as bad as feared and service will be restored through Raton shortly.


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Even better, it sounds like the damage to the tracks isn't as bad as feared and service will be restored through Raton shortly.


I read somewhere where today (Thursday, 6/16) will be the last day for the reroute.


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 16, 2011)

According to this Amtrak service notice: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1248543817233 , service has returned to Raton Pass. Guess the speculation over which stations will be served on the TransCon can wait for another day!


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> According to this Amtrak service notice: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1248543817233 , service has returned to Raton Pass. Guess the speculation over which stations will be served on the TransCon can wait for another day!


Too bad they don't specify what date that is starting. Does that start with today's (6/16) departures?


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2011)

I have to be honest, I was really torn by this reroute. While it is pretty well known I would love to have the SWC permanently rerouted on the transcon so my city could have service, this one concerned me as I am scheduled to be on the SWC leaving from Lamy in less than two weeks.

Many, many people on the web are saying the reroute is just a matter of time. I guess I will just have to continue to be patient. And while I feel bad for all who would lose service, I cannot help but be excited for those (and me) who would get Amtrak service for the first time ever.


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## henryj (Jun 16, 2011)

Well darn and heck. I thought I might get to see it go through Vaughn. But glad it's back to normal anyway.


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## The Journalist (Jun 16, 2011)

Tickets are available on today's Chief from Raton going east. Going west, it's showing as sold out on the whole route, so not clear if what they're doing.


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2011)

From what I understand, todays #3(15) was the last planned reroute. Todays #4(15) is planned to go the normal route.

I missed #3 this morning because of work. Might have gone anyway had I known it was the last.


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## gswager (Jun 16, 2011)

Today's #4 has passed through Lamy, according to Amtrak Status Maps. Still not showing #3 on map, so I'm assuming it'll be on detoured route.


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2011)

gswager said:


> Today's #4 has passed through Lamy, according to Amtrak Status Maps. Still not showing #3 on map, so I'm assuming it'll be on detoured route.


#3 was detoured today, but that was this morning.


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## jis (Jun 16, 2011)

Yes 4(15) which passed through ABQ today is running through Raton Pass. CTC is out on the Raton Line. Trains are running on track warrant authority for the time being.


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## gswager (Jun 18, 2011)

Cause of Track Fire has been determined.



> Santa Fe – Investigators from New Mexico State Forestry and the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway (BNSF) have determined the cause of the Track Fire, which has burned 27,794 acres of land in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado, according to New Mexico State Forester Tony Delfin.


Here's the info.


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## George Harris (Jun 18, 2011)

gswager said:


> Cause of Track Fire has been determined.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You left us hanging. Here is the meat:



> Investigators have found strong evidence to suggest Track Fire was caused by engine exhaust particles, likely expelled from an All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) on Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) Railway property. An ATV rider trespassed onto land owned by BNSF railway through access from nearby private property.


Other points worth spreading: area consumed: 27,794 acres including numerous structures

and:



> Anyone with information regarding the person or persons riding or operating ATVs in the area near the origin of the fire on Sunday, June 12, 2011, is asked to contact New Mexico State Forestry Agent Shawn Beck at 505-827-0503 or the Colfax County Sheriff’s Department at 575-445-5561


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