# What's the penalty (for cancellation)?



## George K (Sep 15, 2017)

About 3 weeks ago, I booked a trip on the Empire Builder using my AGR points. Circumstances have changed (my bride needs an operation and the surgeon says train travel not a good idea 4 months after surgery).

So...I have to cancel that trip.

I believe there's a 10% penalty for cancellation, but is it possible to apply those points to a voucher for future travel and not take the 10% hit?


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2017)

https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/info/2016redemptionguidelines



> For cancelations on one-way, round-trip or multi-segment reward travel, the following will apply:
> 
> A 10% points penalty is assessed for any refund (redeposit) back to the member account.
> 
> If canceling a non-sleeper ticket within 24 hours prior to departure, or a sleeper ticket within 14 days prior to departure, an additional "close-in" penalty of 10% of the points redeemed will be collected (waived for Select Executive)


If you can reschedule the trip instead of cancel, you can avoid some (or all) of the 10% penalty.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2017)

Call AGR George, and as Ryan says,explain the circumstances and if allowed,"Rebook" the Rez for sometime next year.

Worth a shot!


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## George K (Sep 15, 2017)

Thanks for the tips, guys.

Ryan, it took you 8 minutes for an answer (that I could have probably found by myself).

Bob, an hour and 20 minutes. What a slacker! 

Am grateful to both!


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## George K (Sep 15, 2017)

Just talked to the management my wife. SHe's having a redo spinal fusion, probably in February, and our trip is planned for July. So, by the beginning of June, we should know how she's doing. She suggested (she _loves_ Amtrak) that we wait, and not cancel anything. By 3 months after the surgery, we should have a feel for how things are.

The only thing that scares her is that horribly long walk from the PDX sleeper to the dining car. We've not taken advantage of having our meals in our room, but this trip, we might avail ourselves of that feature.

The other thing is that the surgeon is probably not too familiar with what travel on Amtrak in a bedroom is like - he's probably thinking of it being similar to air travel in coach.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2017)

George: you could also ride the Builder to Seattle on #7 and then ride a Cascades Train to Portland.

This would place yall close to the Diner and SSL which eliminates the long hike from the Portland Sleeper on the rear of the train.


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## George K (Sep 15, 2017)

Thought about that. I've done CHI -> PDX three times now, twice with the management wife. The Builder's on-time performance has been pretty good lately, and the change of scenery through Washington State would be nice.


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## the_traveler (Sep 16, 2017)

I just had to cancel my trip! 

The penalty for an AGR re deposit OR modification of a sleeper award is *20%*!


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2017)

Also addressed in my post above...



Ryan said:


> https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/info/2016redemptionguidelines
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## abcnews (Sep 16, 2017)

I have success in the past by rebooking a new trip and utilizing the points from the cancelled reservation - and I'm not sure if it actually has to be the same itinerary.

As I recall, I called AGR and I mentioned we would like to book a trip, and cancel a current AGR reservation - and we would like to use those already redeemed points from the cancelled reservation for the new trip.

In our case, I believe that the new date was slightly fewer points. So they allowed me to apply the cancelled reservation points towards the new reservation. There was actually point difference in my favor, so they just added the difference back to my account - less the 10% penalty. So I only was penalized on the balance of the points - which was not that many. And I salvaged most of the previously used points in the new reservation.


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## jebr (Sep 19, 2017)

That's been my experience as well - as long as you're _modifying _the reservation, any points used for the new reservation will not incur the standard penalty as they're not being re-deposited into the account. They may incur a close-in penalty if that condition applies, though I've never had to cancel during the close-in cancellation period and so am not sure how that penalty would be applied.


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## Ryan (Sep 19, 2017)

That's in a different part of the policy:



> For modifications on one-way, round-trip or multi-segment reward travel, the following will apply:
> 
> Points difference (to new prevailing fare) will apply in all cases with a 10% points penalty withheld on any fare difference returned to member
> 
> If modifying a non-sleeper ticket within 24 hours prior to departure, or a sleeper ticket within 14 days prior to departure, an additional "close-in" penalty of 10% of the points redeemed will be collected (waived for Select Executive).


The way I make this out - if I make a 10,000 point sleeper reservation, then modify it to be a 8,000 point reservation, I'll get 1800 points redeposited back into my account (2,000 point refund, minus the 10% penalty).

If I do the same thing within 14 days of travel, and additional "close-in" penalty of 10% "of the points redeemed" applies. Not sure if it's 10% of the original 10,000 point redemption or the modified 8,000 point redemption, but that's an additional 1,000 or 800 points that aren't going back into my account.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Sep 20, 2017)

I believe the refund penalty is 20% in all cases under AGR 2. At least that is what they explain to me each time I make a reservation using points.


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## Ryan (Sep 20, 2017)

Those are the currently posted policies.


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## dlagrua (Sep 21, 2017)

A few years back we cancelled a reservation and immediately rescheduled it for no penalty. The paid portion of our trip was refunded in a voucher while an equal amount of points were just applied to a new ticket with a different date. This might have been on the old system but I believe that a voucher is still not considered a refund. .


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2017)

A few years ago would've been AGR 1.0, and there was no penalty. An e-voucher is no penalty, while a refund in cash or back to your credit card involves a penalty.


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