# what about small animals in carriers?



## Liz K

I need to travel between NYC and Charlotte this week. My cat is a very, very good, quiet traveler and perfectly happy to stay in his carrier. I really to take him with me. Is it possible to discreetly put him under the seat without arousing suspicion?


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## wayman

Liz K said:


> I need to travel between NYC and Charlotte this week. My cat is a very, very good, quiet traveler and perfectly happy to stay in his carrier. I really to take him with me. Is it possible to discreetly put him under the seat without arousing suspicion?


I believe the answer here is "you will be not be allowed to board the train with your cat, and you will be removed from the train at the first station after your cat is discovered if you sneak him on board", unless you luck into all of: a very forgiving conductor and car attendant, who are both willing to bend the rules on the risk of severe penalties from Amtrak potentially including losing their jobs; and a carload of passengers none of whom are allergic to or otherwise object to your cat--a single complaint would probably get you removed from the train regardless of how willing an Amtrak employee may have been to "look the other way" in the absence of an actual complaint.

I guarantee you that, should you sneak your cat onto the train, he will meow audibly at least once between New York and North Carolina, or at least give an indication to someone that "something in that bag is alive". I would not risk this!

It's very unfortunate that Amtrak has this policy, but that's the way it is. From a FAQ at Pets on the Go,

_The National Association of Rail Passengers ... said that until 1976, pets were allowed in the sleeping car, in the parlor cars and in baggage. Then in 1977, "there were new requirements for heat and air conditioning for baggage cars (and possibly for providing water). Amtrak determined that it would need to spend $13.8 million on baggage car changes and special animal shelters in stations to satisfy the new regulations, and ended the carriage of pets rather than comply."_

It's not entirely clear why the requirements for baggage car improvements affected the policy for pets in sleeping cars, but then much Amtrak policy is not entirely clear....

The way to try to change this policy is, as it nearly always is with Amtrak, to write your Congressman and Senators, as they control the budget; but obviously that won't help with your upcoming trip 

(By the way, that $13.8 million in 1977 dollars would be $49.8 million in 2007 dollars, using this inflation calculator. And of course, it might cost even more than that, since general requirements for humane treatment of animals may have changed in the past thirty years.)


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## amtrakwolverine

only train you can bring pets on is VIA rail in canada and it will have to ride in the baggage car


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## wayman

KISS_ALIVE said:


> only train you can bring pets on is VIA rail in canada and it will have to ride in the baggage car


No, you can bring pets on New Jersey Transit ("Small pets are allowed in carry-on travel cages."), the NYC Subway ("Dogs in kennels or bags are allowed on the City's subways and buses"), the Long Island Railroad, PATH (same link as for MTA), and on most railroads in Western Europe. Probably many others in other parts of America, too. But not Amtrak.


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## OlympianHiawatha

I would imagine pets being allowed in Sleepers was done away with after concern of potential allergic reactions from the next ocupants who encounter dander or hair. And I'm sure there had been enough complaints from attendants having to clean up after pets as well.


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## ThayerATM

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I would imagine pets being allowed in Sleepers was done away with after concern of potential allergic reactions from the next ocupants who encounter dander or hair. And I'm sure there had been enough complaints from attendants having to clean up after pets as well.


Back in the day my wife and I, and three kids, were making a cross country camping trip. On the way back from CO we finally caved in and took a motel room in Salina Kansas. At 3 AM two of the kids had asthma attacks due to animals having been in the room at some point. (pets welcome was not posted anywhere) We left immediately, and within an hour the kids were OK. It's not quite that easy to get off an Amtrak train at 3 AM, especially if it's moving.


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## WhoozOn1st

wayman said:


> It's very unfortunate that Amtrak has this policy, but that's the way it is.


I don't think the policy is unfortunate at all. Service animals notwithstanding, those who feel the need to have their dogs, cats (mine's name is Intruder), parrots, monkeys, or wildebeests accompany them should use private methods of transportation, e.g. driving, or look into booking a seat on a circus train. Ringling Bros., Barnum & Bailey may have seats available, if you don't mind riding with midgets and clowns.


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## ThayerATM

WhoozOn1st said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's very unfortunate that Amtrak has this policy, but that's the way it is.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the policy is unfortunate at all. Service animals notwithstanding, those who feel the need to have their dogs, cats (mine's name is Intruder), parrots, monkeys, or wildebeests accompany them should use private methods of transportation, e.g. driving, or look into booking a seat on a circus train. Ringling Bros., Barnum & Bailey may have seats available, if you don't mind riding with midgets and clowns.
Click to expand...

I've got to stop laughing so I can put this thought together. :lol:

Service animals (like a "seeing eye" wildebeest  ) are necessary for some individuals. Seriously --- is there any provision for a specially designated sleeper for people with service animals? I'm not allergic, but my kids are.


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## Tony

ThayerATM said:


> Service animals (like a "seeing eye" wildebeest  ) are necessary for some individuals. Seriously --- is there any provision for a specially designated sleeper for people with service animals? I'm not allergic, but my kids are.


I would hope that the attendant would take the time to do a thorough cleaning of the room after they disem_barked_ (ok, I tried for the pun).

That is quite different from allowing everyone/anyone to have an animal, which would, obviously, require the entire train to be thoroughly cleaned after each stop.


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## ThayerATM

Tony said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Service animals (like a "seeing eye" wildebeest  ) are necessary for some individuals. Seriously --- is there any provision for a specially designated sleeper for people with service animals? I'm not allergic, but my kids are.
> 
> 
> 
> I would hope that the attendant would take the time to do a thorough cleaning of the room after they disem_barked_ (ok, I tried for the pun).
> 
> That is quite different from allowing everyone/anyone to have an animal, which would, obviously, require the entire train to be thoroughly cleaned after each stop.
Click to expand...

Excellent shot with the pun.  But I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

What I was getting at was: Does Amtrak have a specific dedicated bedroom, or roomette, or section of coach where someone with a service animal (e.g. wildebeest :unsure: ) will be assigned, just to make sure that that's the only area that has to be cleared of animal dander at each change of passenger?

That would be the cat's meow for any car attendant, I'd think.


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## Tony

ThayerATM said:


> What I was getting at was: Does Amtrak have a specific dedicated bedroom, or roomette, or section of coach where someone with a service animal (e.g. wildebeest :unsure: ) will be assigned, just to make sure that that's the only area that has to be cleared of animal dander at each change of passenger?


I was getting at, that I would expect the sleeping car attendant would know that there was a service dog in roomette 7, or bedroom B, and go thru some specific cleaning processes afterward before the next passenger used that room.

BTW, does the sleeping car attendant have a vacuum? In all these years, I have never once seen them using one.


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## ThayerATM

Tony said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I was getting at was: Does Amtrak have a specific dedicated bedroom, or roomette, or section of coach where someone with a service animal (e.g. wildebeest :unsure: ) will be assigned, just to make sure that that's the only area that has to be cleared of animal dander at each change of passenger?
> 
> 
> 
> I was getting at, that I would expect the sleeping car attendant would know that there was a service dog in roomette 7, or bedroom B, and go thru some specific cleaning processes afterward before the next passenger used that room.
> 
> BTW, does the sleeping car attendant have a vacuum? In all these years, I have never once seen them using one.
Click to expand...

I called Amtrak to find out. After checking (20 minutes) with her service staff the agent told me that after each change of passengers, each sleeper is cleaned, using a "filtrated" bag, (whatever that is) when the sleeper had contained a service animal. She went on to say that nobody could define "down to how many microns" the filters worked, and that I should keep that in mind if I was allergic to animal dander.

Dander are many unanswered questions, but the attendant must be told that there was an animal in there.

Thus ends this shaggy dawg tale.


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## Alice

Tony said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I was getting at was: Does Amtrak have a specific dedicated bedroom, or roomette, or section of coach where someone with a service animal (e.g. wildebeest :unsure: ) will be assigned, just to make sure that that's the only area that has to be cleared of animal dander at each change of passenger?
> 
> 
> 
> I was getting at, that I would expect the sleeping car attendant would know that there was a service dog in roomette 7, or bedroom B, and go thru some specific cleaning processes afterward before the next passenger used that room.
> 
> BTW, does the sleeping car attendant have a vacuum? In all these years, I have never once seen them using one.
Click to expand...

From the Amtrak page about service animals:

"Only service animals permitted: We allow trained service animals accompanying passengers with disabilities in all customer areas in our stations, trains and Amtrak Thruway motorcoaches."

To me, that means service animals are allowed in coach, sleepers, lounge, diner, etc. There is no way to thoroughly clean all of those areas until the train's usual servicing.

On disability lists, there have been a number of discussions on rights of person with disability (PWD) vs rights of person with allergies to a service animal. On account of ADA and other federal and state laws, rights of PWD trump rights of people with allergies, unless the allergy is so severe it counts as a disability. In that case, the store/restaurant/motel/etc must find a way to serve both. I think the theory is something along the lines of a person with asthma can access public accommodations by carrying medication and taking it as needed, but there is no equivalent for blindness, quadreplegia, etc.

That said, many PWDs with service dogs (not all) are aware of allergies and try to be considerate.


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## the_traveler

WhoozOn1st said:


> look into booking a seat on a circus train. Ringling Bros., Barnum & Bailey may have seats available, if you don't mind *riding with* midgets and *clowns*.


Will the circus be in LA October 10-12? If not, how will we get on a train? :huh: :lol:


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## Tony

Alice said:


> To me, that means service animals are allowed in coach, sleepers, lounge, diner, etc. There is no way to thoroughly clean all of those areas until the train's usual servicing.


I don't think that someone who needs a service animal will really wonder thru every single car of a train. I am not disabled, and I don't wonder the entire train. It is much more likely they will stick to one or two places; coach seat and bathroom; roomette and dining car. Plus these animals are very well trained. They would stick to the floor, and not be jumping up on seats and beds. IMHO, that would greatly limit the areas of the train which need to be cleaned afterward.

All of this is based on service animals being very infrequent on-board Amtrak LD trains. In all my years, I have only ever personally seen one.


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## WhoozOn1st

Circus Train Info

Tell the cats, dogs, parrots, monkeys, and wildebeests!


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## wayman

WhoozOn1st said:


> Circus Train Info
> Tell the cats, dogs, parrots, monkeys, and wildebeests!


You know, I can't believe we've been overlooking this: wolverines and mules are an exception to the rule of "no animals on Amtrak"


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## PetalumaLoco

I wonder if this would be ok?







(no animals were hurt in the production of this illustration)


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## goodcow

I'm traveling from NYC to Charlotte this Wednesday and my dad will be cat-sitting instead.

Just have a friend or family member take care of your cat.


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## Joel N. Weber II

Alice said:


> On disability lists, there have been a number of discussions on rights of person with disability (PWD) vs rights of person with allergies to a service animal. On account of ADA and other federal and state laws, rights of PWD trump rights of people with allergies, unless the allergy is so severe it counts as a disability. In that case, the store/restaurant/motel/etc must find a way to serve both. I think the theory is something along the lines of a person with asthma can access public accommodations by carrying medication and taking it as needed, but there is no equivalent for blindness, quadreplegia, etc.


If you consider the amount of assistance that Amtrak crews provide to mobility impaired passengers, it's a little hard for me to believe that there's really much a dog could do for a blind passenger that the Amtrak crew couldn't while a blind passenger is on the train. I also can think of at least two blind people who as far as I know survive just fine without a dog. On the other hand, I can also see where a blind passenger who is used to being with their dog might be most comfortable having their service animal with them for the trip, and a blind passenger might well want their service animal at their destination.

Someone who's allergic to, say, both dust mites and dogs may not be able to identify the source of a particular allergic reaction. Dust mites tend to grow in carpet and in cloth seats, and I have not been convinced that there is any great approach to cleaning that thoroughly gets rid of dust mites. Dust mites also apparently can grow in cat hair. And as far as I know, there is no medication that effectively treats a dust mite allergy; doctors tend to recommend trying to reduce exposure.

For all that I don't personally like being exposed to animals, and I think it would be especially rude to expose me to an animal and then cover it up so that I don't consider trying to get myself to a different car where I'd be away from that animal, I also think there are enough pets in America that telling pet owners not to take public transportation is not a good solution. We really need designated pet cars, I think.


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## AlanB

Joel N. Weber II said:


> For all that I don't personally like being exposed to animals, and I think it would be especially rude to expose me to an animal and then cover it up so that I don't consider trying to get myself to a different car where I'd be away from that animal, I also think there are enough pets in America that telling pet owners not to take public transportation is not a good solution. We really need designated pet cars, I think.


Well you wouldn't have to sit right next to a service dog in coach, as Amtrak automatically tickets for the dog. That means that the owner gets one seat and the dog, even though they don't actually use the seat, get's the other.


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## WhoozOn1st

Joel N. Weber II said:


> We really need designated pet cars, I think.


No, no, no, and again NO. Trains are not rolling kennels, nor should they be. Among the relaxing features of Amtrak travel is relief from the neighbors' dogs barking at all hours.

EDIT: I'm awake now, when I would like to be sleeping, because there's a dog barking. Would anybody want this on a train?


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## Joel N. Weber II

WhoozOn1st said:


> EDIT: I'm awake now, when I would like to be sleeping, because there's a dog barking. Would anybody want this on a train?


Is the bark of a dog in some other car of a train actually louder than the train horn?

Or, how about entire dedicated trains for pets on corridors where Amtrak offers frequent service?


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## Walt

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Is the bark of a dog in some other car of a train actually louder than the train horn?





WhoozOn1st said:


> EDIT: I'm awake now, when I would like to be sleeping, because there's a dog barking. Would anybody want this on a train?


A few month back, I was awaken at 5am on a Sunday morning to the sound of several dogs barking, at a hotel (Hampton Inn) which did not allow pets. I waited to see if the barking soon stopped, but eventually decided it wasn't. I got a hold of the front desk, only to find out that there was nothing they can do, as the dog owner had already (just) checked out.

I filled a complaint with the hotel management anyway. Apparently, this guest sweat talked the desk clerk into letting him stay with his dogs. That will not happen again.

BTW, I am a dog person. It wasn't that the noise of the dog barking that awoke me and kept me awake, but rather that barking dog(s) need of attention and I felt this need to ensure it happened. Same would go on a train. If I heard a dog barking, I would feel this overwhelming need to get up and take him/her for a walk.


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## caravanman

I think we need a little lateral thinking here.. How about a strong sedative for the cat, and wear it around the neck, as a stole..

Ed B)


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## Dutchrailnut

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1080080554551

Only service animals permitted: We allow trained service animals accompanying passengers with disabilities in all customer areas in our stations, trains and Amtrak Thruway motorcoaches.

*We permit no other animals onboard at any time.*

Control of your animal: You must keep your service animal under the control at all times and comply with local animal safety regulations. The animal should always be on a leash or in a carrier, except as required for boarding or detraining.

*Please note that if at any time you lose control of your animal, or your animal causes a significant disturbance, the train crew may in its discretion remove the animal from train and turn it over to local animal control officials.*

Walking your animal: If the train schedule permits, you may walk your service animal at station stops provided that you stay within reasonable proximity to the train and re-board promptly when the conductor notifies you that the train is about to depart. If you plan to walk your animal during the trip, please notify the conductor when you first board the train.


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## xx

caravanman said:


> I think we need a little lateral thinking here.. How about a strong sedative for the cat, and wear it around the neck, as a stole..
> Ed B)


A cat might qualify as a service animal, except most I've seen would rather push

you in front of a train than keep you safe from one.

Devious, evil creatures, they are.


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## Neil_M

Personally, I have no problem with pu$$y on the train.............. :lol:


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## WhoozOn1st

Walt said:


> If I heard a dog barking, I would feel this overwhelming need to get up and take him/her for a walk.


I would feel this overwhelming need to get up and throw him/her off the train, preferably at speed.


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## Alice

WhoozOn1st said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I heard a dog barking, I would feel this overwhelming need to get up and take him/her for a walk.
> 
> 
> 
> I would feel this overwhelming need to get up and throw him/her off the train, preferably at speed.
Click to expand...

Service dogs, besides having a requirement for serving a person with a disability, are supposed to be trained. I would argue that a barking dog on a train is not trained. The dog/owner should be put off at the next small crossing, like they do with smokers. One thing that is hurting the ADA is people taking advantage of flexibilities built into the law (like training their own dog) to create loopholes (pets in blue vests) ... makes it harder for people who really have a service animal to get treated with respect and not have to argue or threaten legal action to go in a mom-and-pop restaurant (for instance).

(Aside: The former postmaster in Port Costa, population a couple of hundred, no station or transit or even public phone, a long walk to anywhere inhabited, reports that smokers sometimes came in asking for help after being put off the CZ, CS or Capital Corridors. He thought this was entirely appropriate and only gave walking directions.)

We've gotten a long ways from the original question, taking a pet cat in a carrier (other than those hilarious ideas from a couple people). I hope the original poster knows to just forget it ... leave the cat at home or take a car.


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## RailFanLNK

There's a big difference between "need" to bring my kittie and "want" to bring my kittie. A person "needs" to bring thier insulin, but I "want" to bring my portable cd player. I love dogs, cats are ok, but the train is NO place for this kind of stuff. We were on our way back from CHI in March and some woman had a "service dog" that was an ankle biter and was all foo-fooed up. Could not figure out how a dog the size of my hand could open and shut doors etc on the train for thier keeper. I never heard a peep out of the dog which is good.


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## WhoozOn1st

RailFanLNK said:


> some woman had a "service dog" that was an ankle biter and was all foo-fooed up.


The technical term for that sort of animal is "Rat Dog," and in my view they should never be allowed on public transportation of any kind. How that woman got away with it is a mystery. I'm an inveterate dog-hater, so my opinion can be discounted somewhat. But there are people like ThayerATM, whooz kids are allergic, and who has legit issues with animals on trains and elsewhere. Leave the pets at home.


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## Guest

Not addressed is the liability that Amtrak faces if your animal bites someone. (I've been bitten twice, both times immediately following the words, "he won't bite". Warm blooded animals carry rabies. Not every owner is responsible and Amtrak doesn't need to be in the business of checking rabies tags.

After one of the above bites from a neighbor's elderly dog I didn't go to the doctor because the neighbor said that her dog would be automatically put down as it was its 2nd bite. I like the neighbor. Subsequently, I was in another state and went to the doctor (military) for something else. I was told that if they noted the dog bite that _every_ county that I had been in between there and my home state would have to be notified because of the threat of rabies.

Leave Miss Kitty at home with caring friends or family or drive.


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## Walt

Guest said:


> Not addressed is the liability that Amtrak faces if your animal bites someone. (I've been bitten twice, both times immediately following the words, "he won't bite".


I have owned many dogs over my life, and yep, I have been bitten a few times. Well, maybe nipped at would be more accurate. All my dogs have been easy going, and very even tempered. But dogs, like people, have bad days. One might come home, and have your spouse "bite your head off" because you put the salad folk on the wrong side of the dish. A dog might not be feeling good, and really doesn't want you touching them.

I still remember years ago. I was out walking my first dog very late at night. One of my neighbors walked up to me from behind, and surprised me. Suddenly, my easy going, laid back, dog went into attack mode. That was the first and only time I had ever seen him growl and bare his teeth. One just never knows.


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## Guest

Walt said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not addressed is the liability that Amtrak faces if your animal bites someone. (I've been bitten twice, both times immediately following the words, "he won't bite".
> 
> 
> 
> I have owned many dogs over my life, and yep, I have been bitten a few times. Well, maybe nipped at would be more accurate. All my dogs have been easy going, and very even tempered. But dogs, like people, have bad days. One might come home, and have your spouse "bite your head off" because you put the salad folk on the wrong side of the dish. A dog might not be feeling good, and really doesn't want you touching them.
> 
> I still remember years ago. I was out walking my first dog very late at night. One of my neighbors walked up to me from behind, and surprised me. Suddenly, my easy going, laid back, dog went into attack mode. That was the first and only time I had ever seen him growl and bare his teeth. One just never knows.
Click to expand...

OT, a long time boyfriend was doing the midnight kissy embracing thing when his German Shepherd chomped down on my rear end. I developed a bad case of "I TOLD you so".

You hate teaching owners about their dogs, but I now go on alert when they tell me "he won't bite". To me, that means they aren't going to be watching the dog's behaviour, so YOU have to. All dogs with teeth can bite. I've owned both cats and dogs (lab mixes) and cats get temperamental, too. Face it, traveling and being around strangers can be stressful on animals.

So, dogs and cats don't belong on trains except where required by law.


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## Rafi

Guest said:


> OT, a long time boyfriend was doing the midnight kissy embracing thing when his German Shepherd chomped down on my rear end. I developed a bad case of "I TOLD you so".


Heh... look at it from the dog's perspective—he/she probably thought the master was under some sort of attack! 

Rafi


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## Guest

Rafi said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> OT, a long time boyfriend was doing the midnight kissy embracing thing when his German Shepherd chomped down on my rear end. I developed a bad case of "I TOLD you so".
> 
> 
> 
> Heh... look at it from the dog's perspective—he/she probably thought the master was under some sort of attack!
> 
> Rafi
Click to expand...

I'm going to be really tacky here. The dog was going after the same thing as my boyfriend


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## Walt

Guest said:


> I'm going to be really tacky here. The dog was going after the same thing as my boyfriend


I have owned many dogs over my life, and yep, I have to agree.


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## MattW

Though I do agree that no passenger should be involuntarily subjected to an animal just for riding Amtrak, perhaps there is a happy medium. Someone suggested a designated pet car. I'll confess the only train I've had experience with is the Crescent, but what about either having a designated car either at the very head of the train just behind baggage, or very rear. That way, people don't have to walk through a pet zone just to take care of going to the restroom or eating unless they indicate that they don't care if they sit in the pet car.

This could create some equipment troubles for Amtrak however as they couldn't recycle that particular car back into regular service without a REALLY REALLY REALLY thorough cleaning first.

For long-distance travel, there's only the airlines which might as well be flying space-capsule prisons, driving, or Amtrak. And airlines force pets into possibly unpressurized, uninsulated baggage holds, and if you drive, you have to choose either the pet or the luggage sometimes.


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## sky12065

xx said:


> A cat might qualify as a service animal, except most I've seen would rather push you in front of a train than keep you safe from one.
> 
> Devious, evil creatures, they are.


Not my little capon, his sister hen or his mother hen!. In terror, the three of them would make like a bat out of hell away from any approaching train and hide in hopes that the train won't be able to find them and gobble them up! :huh:


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## VentureForth

Greyhound has the same policy.

Unless you're moving residences, find a kennel or baby sitter.

Baggage area on airliners are NOT unpressurized. They carry about the same cabin altitude as the cabin - about 8000 feet elevation when the plane is really at 35,000 ft. Dogs and cats typically don't survive without oxygen. Where you could get into unpressurized, uninsulated situations are on small prop-commuter lines that don't fly above 10,000 ft. But the pax cabin isn't pressurized either.

Flying pets are the best way to go, with many airlines allowing in-cabin, checked, or cargo-shipped transport of pets (depending on type and size of animal). But keep in mind - most US flights are less than 3 hours long (there are many that are more, but that's the average), so if the pet is a handful (even beyond the 'rules' set by the carrier), exposure to the pet by other pax is limited. Being next to a fine feline for 48 hours plus can be gruesome.


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## Walt

VentureForth said:


> Baggage area on airliners are NOT unpressurized. They carry about the same cabin altitude as the cabin - about 8000 feet elevation when the plane is really at 35,000 ft. Dogs and cats typically don't survive without oxygen.


The baggage area is OPTIONALLY pressurized. It is up to the captain.

A few years ago, several Samoyed dogs were killed, on their way to their yearly national show, because the captain "forgot" to pressurize the baggage area (he claimed he wasn't informed that any live animals were traveling in there for that flight). And, the captain thought it was best to announced to the passengers that their dogs all just died, while still in route.


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## Dutchrailnut

Why is it some people think this is Airplane chat or bus chat ?

lets stick to Amtrak and their no pet policy.


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## Ryan

Dutchrailnut said:


> Why is it some people think this is Airplane chat or bus chat ?lets stick to Amtrak and their no pet policy.


Why is it that some people think that this is another popular RR forum where any posts that aren't completely about amtrak are completely without merit and unwelcome?

lets stick to polite conversation and leave the moderating to, well, actual moderators.\

On edit (because it's the very next thread I read): Here's an actual moderator, making a post completely about "what airplanes do", so it looks like your opinion isn't shared by at least one of the moderators, Mr. Railnut.


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## VentureForth

Dutchrailnut said:


> Why is it some people think this is Airplane chat or bus chat ?lets stick to Amtrak and their no pet policy.


You're grumpy. :angry:

We're comparing policies of Amtrak to other forms of transportation. A very decent comeback from you could be "Hmm... The very restrictive airlines seem to finds means by which they permit folks to not be without their beloved pets. Why can't Amtrak seem to find a way?"

Where were you when folks were just talking about cats and dogs? And about all a male dog wants? Where were you when it had nothing to do with transportation at all?

I think someone needs to go to Disneyland and find their happy place.


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## VentureForth

Walt said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Baggage area on airliners are NOT unpressurized. They carry about the same cabin altitude as the cabin - about 8000 feet elevation when the plane is really at 35,000 ft. Dogs and cats typically don't survive without oxygen.
> 
> 
> 
> The baggage area is OPTIONALLY pressurized. It is up to the captain.
> 
> A few years ago, several Samoyed dogs were killed, on their way to their yearly national show, because the captain "forgot" to pressurize the baggage area (he claimed he wasn't informed that any live animals were traveling in there for that flight). And, the captain thought it was best to announced to the passengers that their dogs all just died, while still in route.
Click to expand...

Now then, as an aircraft engineer who designs some pretty big airplanes, I think that a "few years back" would have to have been pre-707 days. In my experience, there is only a single cabin 'altitude' control on the flight deck. That control actuates a single outflow valve somewhere in the back of the airplane (usually in the back). Fresh air is then brought in from the outside, mixed through an exchanger that bleeds air off of a jet engine and introduced into the cabin. Now, that being said, the pressure and temperature in the baggage area could be slightly different than in the cabin, much like a room in a house where the thermostat is in one room, another room with all the doors closed might have a slight difference in temperature (this correlation only goes so far - the pressure would be pretty close).

If the baggage compartment was optionally pressurized, then there would be all sorts of liquid containers blowing up. There's a degree of that anyway with a flight from sea level to a cabin altitude of 8000 feet, but nothing like what would happen if everything were taken all the way up to 35,000 ft. Today, in Savannah, the temperature on the ground is around 95 degrees F. At 35,000 Ft, that temperature is close to -45 degrees.

So, respectfully, I must disagree that baggage compartments are optionally pressurized. Don't know why the dogs died, but I don't think it was the captain forgetting to pressurize the cargo compartment.


----------



## Guest

Related (at least like 6th cousins) are the conditions in the baggage car. Thumbing through the Timetable, I noticed that human remains can be carried by Amtrak. Wouldn't that have to be temperature controlled?

Wouldn't that be the same likely place as pets could be carried?

Are baggage cars temp controlled?

..just wondering.


----------



## VentureForth

I don't think human remains need to be temp controlled after being embalmed. I know that baggage cars aren't temp controlled. That, specifically, is the reason why pets are not carried in the baggage car according to Guest Services when I called them about it a couple years ago. Besides, I've seen how stuff is thrown about in a baggage car and I wouldn't want a pet in there.


----------



## Guest_timetableflagman_*

If VIA Rail Canada can carry pets in baggage and airlines can carry them in coach class (alergics could be affected by even short-term exposure), AMTRAK could certainly allow pets with a combination of their strict policy with service animals and VIA's policy as a guide. I've known enough would-be AMTRAK passengers who have sworn off AMTRAK because of the no-pets policy. I can't ride them much either for the same reason.

The estimated $49.8 billion needed to retro-fit baggage cars for pets could easily be made up by two to four passengers per train turned away because of AMTRAK's onerous no-pets policy. An accumulation of such restrictive policies by AMTRAK can amount to their lack of ridership and revenue. Yet, we're supposed to tax everyone who thus can't ride AMTRAK to pay for it?!


----------



## PetalumaLoco

> The estimated *$49.8 billion* needed to retro-fit baggage cars for pets


Surely this is a typo.


----------



## Ryan

Guest_timetableflagman_* said:


> The estimated $49.8 billion needed to retro-fit baggage cars for pets could easily be made up by _two to four passengers per train turned away because of AMTRAK's onerous no-pets policy._ An accumulation of such restrictive policies by AMTRAK can amount to their lack of ridership and revenue. Yet, we're supposed to tax everyone who thus can't ride AMTRAK to pay for it?!


I find the part I italicized equally made-up sounding. I seriously doubt that there would be 2-4 more people on every single train that Amtrak runs if pets were allowed. Of course, if the poster has any evidence to back the claim up, I stand ready to be corrected.


----------



## PetalumaLoco

Some people assume their pets have the same rights as passengers.

If you have a dog and don't ride, it's because you chose not too, not because you have a dog.


----------



## VentureForth

Psst: Me thinks guest timetableflagman is being a bit sarcastic....


----------



## fizzball

Guest said:


> Thumbing through the Timetable, I noticed that human remains can be carried by Amtrak. Wouldn't that have to be temperature controlled?
> Wouldn't that be the same likely place as pets could be carried?
> 
> Are baggage cars temp controlled?
> 
> ..just wondering.


I really need my human remains in coach with me.

(oh wait, I thought this was the Greyhound forum, sorry)


----------



## Green Maned Lion

I don't get why it is so dificult to leave the danged animal in the house with an automatic feeder.


----------



## Joel N. Weber II

Green Maned Lion said:


> I don't get why it is so dificult to leave the danged animal in the house with an automatic feeder.


Maybe the danged animal and its human like to share the sort of affection depicted in the image in your signature.


----------



## Joel N. Weber II

MattW said:


> Though I do agree that no passenger should be involuntarily subjected to an animal just for riding Amtrak, perhaps there is a happy medium. Someone suggested a designated pet car. I'll confess the only train I've had experience with is the Crescent, but what about either having a designated car either at the very head of the train just behind baggage, or very rear. That way, people don't have to walk through a pet zone just to take care of going to the restroom or eating unless they indicate that they don't care if they sit in the pet car.
> This could create some equipment troubles for Amtrak however as they couldn't recycle that particular car back into regular service without a REALLY REALLY REALLY thorough cleaning first.


Right, a pet car designation would stay with a given physical coach car in a way that a quiet car designation doesn't. And it ought to be on the end of the train, which would have to mean the back of the train on the Superliner trains if you don't want passengers wandering through the crew only part of the transdorm.

On the other hand, making it a car with lower density seating than a standard coach and having some space specifically designed for pets might also make sense.

Another possibility on the Superliner trains might be to make only the lower level the pet section, though I'm not sure how effectively that would really help people with allergies avoid exposure when walking through the upper level.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why it is so dificult to leave the danged animal in the house with an automatic feeder.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the danged animal and its human like to share the sort of affection depicted in the image in your signature.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but then they are considered sick.


----------



## Guest

Green Maned Lion said:


> I don't get why it is so dificult to leave the danged animal in the house with an automatic feeder.


I assume you're joking but in case you're not: In my experience, young cats can be left alone for longer periods than dogs. With my 2 dogs I would come back to a home that smelled like a barnyard. Pet sitters and neighbors can't read the "cues" like owners so it would be inevitable. We did travel with a cat for a summer and at 20 years old he was content to sit still for the entire ride. He could have endured a train ride. The dogs would be a handful and one would be howling at every horn blow.

I don't recall if the OP said she was permanently moving or just vacationing. If vacationing, I would agree with you even though vets suggest that no companion animal should be left untended for long periods of time.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Dogs are different. You need to put them in the kennel. But fact of the matter is, if you own a dog, you need to factor kenneling into the overall expense of traveling. Pets make rotten travel companions.


----------



## chuljin

Alice said:


> (Aside: The former postmaster in Port Costa, population a couple of hundred, no station or transit or even public phone, a long walk to anywhere inhabited, reports that smokers sometimes came in asking for help after being put off the CZ, CS or Capital Corridors. He thought this was entirely appropriate and only gave walking directions.)


Thank you for a rare treat...I wondered 'where is this "Port Costa"?', so I googlemapped it, and about a half-mile (north)west of it, in the satellite image, is what I would guess is a CC train (perhaps just having dropped a smoker there). :lol: link.


----------



## Guest

Once again, you fellow Amtrak lovers have given an innocent question the guillotine response. Amazing how you are experts in the field of animal assistance programs. Note to all: Dogs are not just for the blind. They are trained for seizure patients, and other folks who may experience traumatic medical conditions. Yes, I suppose an attendant could help guide a blind person to the bathroom and dining car. But do you really want to ring that bell when half the time no one comes? Is the attendant going to anticipate a seizure for the passenger? I think not. Guide dogs and medical pups don't bark, unless there is an emergency. Get educated before you comment. It's embarrassing and distasteful for any handicapped passenger to read this thread. Afterall, the question was whether she/he could bring a cat. An answer of no would have been suitable, without the added diatribes and flippant responses. I hope my sister-in-law who has a guide dog never meets the likes of you.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

I don't recall suggesting that that only the blind need them. However, I have seen in my life a great deal of "guide dogs" that are clearly not working animal. A working animal, by nature, has to be well trained, intelligent, alert to surroundings, and obedient. A yapping little rat like a toy poodle that snaps at everyone and barks all over the place is not a work dog, is not assisting anyone, and the person calling it a service animal is a dirty, rotten liar.

There are a lot of people who abuse the term. Wish being cynical didn't have to make sense, but unfortunately it does.


----------



## Guest

Guest said:


> Once again, you fellow Amtrak lovers have given an innocent question the guillotine response. Amazing how you are experts in the field of animal assistance programs. Note to all: Dogs are not just for the blind. They are trained for seizure patients, and other folks who may experience traumatic medical conditions. Yes, I suppose an attendant could help guide a blind person to the bathroom and dining car. But do you really want to ring that bell when half the time no one comes? Is the attendant going to anticipate a seizure for the passenger? I think not. Guide dogs and medical pups don't bark, unless there is an emergency. Get educated before you comment. It's embarrassing and distasteful for any handicapped passenger to read this thread. Afterall, the question was whether she/he could bring a cat. An answer of no would have been suitable, without the added diatribes and flippant responses. I hope my sister-in-law who has a guide dog never meets the likes of you.


Fellow Guest Guest,

The original poster did not mention the cat being an assistance animal. She seemed to be referring to _surreptiously_ taking an animal aboard to take it with her which is against Amtrak rules. That's probably how most on here read it.

These boards are entertainment, rehashing, hobbying, lobbying a little bashing and assistance based on personal experiences, nothing much more . Admittedly, it takes a thick skin to stay, but if you do you'll learn these things. If your relative were to ask a direct question about a handicapped animal companion she would be given a pretty compassionate reply- even from GML. It would be hard to keep a straight face if the companion were an iguana and someone who would choose that route should expect some razzing or choose a more accepted animal. A poker face has its limits. There are a few hot topics that generate continual controversy but dealing with a handicap is not usually one of them.

And, although I don't need a companion animal to deal with _my_ petite mal seizures, I'm sure that if I had the need to ask questions, this group would rise to the occasion. Read some of the backgrounds and threads and you'll notice that there are several posters with handicaps.

I've been given the guillotine treatment several times but am still here.

Other Guest Guest


----------



## amccormi

If animals on carriers mewing, or offending with dander is not allowed, so too should children and babies be banned. A crying child or one that has soiled itself is far more offensive. I would rather have the seat next to me occupied by a woman with a child who is not contained in the least.


----------



## wayman

Guest said:


> We did travel with a cat for a summer and at 20 years old he was content to sit still for the entire ride. He could have endured a train ride. The dogs would be a handful and one would be howling at every horn blow.


Well, since this thread has resurfaced, I'll affirm what Guest said above several months ago. My two six-year-old cats traveled excellently by automobile from Philadelphia to Lynchburg to Las Vegas, and back so far to Lynchburg. Quiet, polite passengers. They were fine for ten hours at a stretch in small carriers between hotel rooms (which is to say, ten hours at a stretch without food, water, or litter) several days in a row. I gave them the option to wander around in the car, but after a quick exploration they settled back into their carriers with their security blankets. (Well, actually, despite the smallness of the carriers, both cats preferred to cuddle together in one!) Cats are very sturdy, relatively not-needy creatures.

I would feel totally comfortable, based on this experience, letting them travel just like this Philadelphia to Lynchburg in an HVAC baggage.

Along the way, my cats saw their first Amtrak train, the Southwest Chief at Winslow:





And got their first ride on the rails, on Fort Smith Light & Traction car #224 (Fort Smith, Arkansas):





Horn blows are nothing compared to the noise of a vintage 1919 trolley on bumpy track! And they seemed totally content to look at the scenery, the motorman, and the conductor the whole ride  The conductor said he'd never had cats as passengers before, but was very happy to take them aboard.

They've become railfans:





And they got to meet Smoky, the cat who lives in Frisco #4003 (with her caretaker, docent of the Fort Smith Trolley Museum Dr. Martin):





Ok, I'll stop with the cat photos before y'all get catty


----------



## just jacqui

Green Maned Lion said:


> Dogs are different. You need to put them in the kennel. But fact of the matter is, if you own a dog, you need to factor kenneling into the overall expense of traveling. Pets make rotten travel companions.




I am a frequent traveller and I find that my two dogs are better traveling companions than most humans.... Obviously you do not have a dog or if you do not he/she leads a very sad life with a very unappreciative owner.


----------



## sunchaser

Since this has been dusted off & brought up, I will add to it.

I have had several dogs/cats over the years. Some really liked travel, others were nervous wrecks.

We currently have a cat & several birds including a large parrot. The cat hates to travel, the parrot seems to like it ,but he can be very noisy. I would not want to subject others to his noise, as much as I will miss him while we're gone.

There's no guarantee that he would like it, and that means he would be difficult to handle at best.

My desire for his companionship must be weighed, IMHO, with what is best for him, and those that would be around him, even though I know he will miss us while we're gone.


----------



## henryj

The Alaska RR allows dogs. In fact the time I rode it in the winter they were picking up dog teams along the way. Most stayed in the baggage car with their dogs. But one lady brought her husky through the cars with her. It was big as a horse.


----------



## JayPea

I recall on a trip on the Southwest Chief a few years back a man had one of those little yapper dogs with him on the train. This one didn't yap and was very well trained. I don't know the nature of the man's disability, though he wasn't blind. He may well have been prone to seizures and this one was trained to detect them. At any rate, it was good to see one of those little annoying dogs being useful, for a pleasant change.


----------



## the Other Mike

JayPea said:


> I recall on a trip on the Southwest Chief a few years back a man had one of those little yapper dogs with him on the train. This one didn't yap and was very well trained. I don't know the nature of the man's disability, though he wasn't blind. He may well have been prone to seizures and this one was trained to detect them. At any rate, it was good to see one of those little annoying dogs being useful, for a pleasant change.



I believe they were on their wat to the national finals of the chwowa ) sp ? punting contest.

As a side note, I lost a companion dog several years ago. She was a "bar dog". we would pull up to the lounge. she would jump out and nose the door open and run behind the bar and "worship" the slim jim rack. This dog was a wonderful dog, didn't make a sound unless her tail got caught in the door type of dog. Everyone in the bar was very fond of Agnes and if she wasn't with me, I had to go home and get her

Over several years only one new person to the bar objected and would mutter ugly remarks and quote local law so I went home and put a lesh on her, put sunglasses on and brought a cane.

It was worth free drinks all night because the jerk ( who no one liked ) knew he was beat and found a new place to drink.

The place I drink now has at least 3 dogs that visit as well as one of those HUGE parrots and no one complains.


----------



## Hamhock

Pets in carriers are also allowed aboard Maine Eastern Railroad's trains that run between Brunswick and Rockland.


----------



## sunchaser

the Other Mike said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recall on a trip on the Southwest Chief a few years back a man had one of those little yapper dogs with him on the train. This one didn't yap and was very well trained. I don't know the nature of the man's disability, though he wasn't blind. He may well have been prone to seizures and this one was trained to detect them. At any rate, it was good to see one of those little annoying dogs being useful, for a pleasant change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe they were on their wat to the national finals of the chwowa ) sp ? punting contest.
> 
> As a side note, I lost a companion dog several years ago. She was a "bar dog". we would pull up to the lounge. she would jump out and nose the door open and run behind the bar and "worship" the slim jim rack. This dog was a wonderful dog, didn't make a sound unless her tail got caught in the door type of dog. Everyone in the bar was very fond of Agnes and if she wasn't with me, I had to go home and get her
> 
> Over several years only one new person to the bar objected and would mutter ugly remarks and quote local law so I went home and put a lesh on her, put sunglasses on and brought a cane.
> 
> It was worth free drinks all night because the jerk ( who no one liked ) knew he was beat and found a new place to drink.
> 
> The place I drink now has at least 3 dogs that visit as well as one of those HUGE parrots and no one complains.
Click to expand...

A few years back we used to go to a local club and bring my Macaw every once in a while. We take him camping, too as long as it's too cool at night. He seems to enjoy all the attention he gets. But on a train, that's very confined space and if he starts squawking, everyone will know he's there!


----------



## NETrainfan

Liz K said:


> I need to travel between NYC and Charlotte this week. My cat is a very, very good, quiet traveler and perfectly happy to stay in his carrier. I really to take him with me. Is it possible to discreetly put him under the seat without arousing suspicion?



As a pet lover, I feel cats should not be on public transportation. It is not fair to the cat or to the other travelers. Not sure if there are any "service cats"- if so, what about the litter box????


----------



## sally ford

I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world.


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

sally ford said:


> I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world.


Well before we reopen this thread lets realize its over a year old.


----------



## rrdude

sally ford said:


> I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to *start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world*.


Year-Old Topic or not, this is funny too! I'm usually the heartless, hypocrite that chimes in on topics like this. Let's force alcoholics to drink too!


----------



## dlagrua

WhoozOn1st said:


> Circus Train Info
> 
> Tell the cats, dogs, parrots, monkeys, and wildebeests!



It looks like the animals enjoy more comfort on the Circus Train. I see no sleepers on this train but 33 passenger coaches. It is possible that the performers have to ride from city to city only in coach??? When I was up close to the train a couple of years back it looked like they had dining cars and sleepers but they don't list in the consist.


----------



## JayPea

rrdude said:


> sally ford said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to *start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world*.
> 
> 
> 
> Year-Old Topic or not, this is funny too! I'm usually the heartless, hypocrite that chimes in on topics like this. Let's force alcoholics to drink too!
Click to expand...


LOL! I'm slow on the draw, I guess! I didn't catch the suggestion to "start exposing myself..........."

I thought there were laws against that!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## guest

Why is it pets seem to have no problem traveling with owners in Europe. My brother was in rural Scotland recently and several dogs were in the car. I recall many times seeing a pet sitting on its owner's lap looking out their bedroom window on Florida trains in the 60's.

As to those with allergies - my son was allergic to cats when young so I can sympathize, but I don't see how that could be a problem if the car was cleaned thoroughly. I suspect the real difference is that the Pullman Company did a far better job of cleaning cars than Amtrak.


----------



## Ryan

dlagrua said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> 
> Circus Train Info
> 
> Tell the cats, dogs, parrots, monkeys, and wildebeests!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like the animals enjoy more comfort on the Circus Train. I see no sleepers on this train but 33 passenger coaches. It is possible that the performers have to ride from city to city only in coach??? When I was up close to the train a couple of years back it looked like they had dining cars and sleepers but they don't list in the consist.
Click to expand...

33 coaches for under 400 people?

Everyone has bedrooms. The performers live on the train.


----------



## DET63

> I suspect the real difference is that the Pullman Company did a far better job of cleaning cars than Amtrak.


Yet the Pullman company is out of business, while Amtrak (admittedly with taxpayer support) is not.


----------



## Nickrapak

sally ford said:


> I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world.



Actually, many food allergy activist organizations have lobbied to have peanuts banned from airplanes, schools, ballparks, and public places (i.e. the guy on the corner selling bags of nuts for $2)


----------



## Sher

Nickrapak said:


> sally ford said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot believe the ridiculous entries regarding allergies to pets- I understand you have an allergy. If you have an allergy to peanuts are you going make peanuts illegal? You are going to have to live in this world that has animals, food, and a variety of people. Perhaps you need to start exposing yourself little by little so your body can be accustomed to the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, many food allergy activist organizations have lobbied to have peanuts banned from airplanes, schools, ballparks, and public places (i.e. the guy on the corner selling bags of nuts for $2)
Click to expand...


So what about those who have allergies to dairy....(lmao...) you gonna lobby for that...what about beef or pork? Come on...

I am a pet owner...and I don't travel with Amtrak because, (FOR REAL), I have dogs who I love to travel with. IF Amtrak would keep up with the rest of the world...and allow pet travel...I would use them OVER flying anyday...so they would have another customer...but I am totally turned off by them for not allowing pets and I assume others are as well. I am living proof they lose customers by their policies...IF the customers that don't like pets or want to be around them have a problem, they can sit in the NO pet section. I believe you will find more customers in the PET section...as there are A LOT of pet lovers out there...oh and just for Amtrak to realize (there are actual airlines now starting up just for pet travel...and are doing really well). The Amtrak imagineers should start taking a look at the future and upgrade their policy.

Lost customer due to NO pet policy~


----------



## caravanman

Hi,

I don't think that public transport shoud be "imagineered" around people who want to transport their animals... That seems a niche market and while I can see how the difficulties of transporting your animals might be irksome, surely that is part of the deal when one becomes a pet owner..?

Amtrak seems short of coaches, I can't see providing an exclusive coach on each train for transporting pets being a great money spinner.

Ed


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

Nickrapak said:


> Actually, many food allergy activist organizations have lobbied to have peanuts banned from airplanes, schools, ballparks, and public places (i.e. the guy on the corner selling bags of nuts for $2)


Which is probably why my local Dunkin Donuts shop felt they needed to post a sign warning customers that their "Banana Nut Muffins may contain nuts". From which my immediate comment was "what's this may?"; they sure better contain nuts. :giggle:


----------



## Sher

caravanman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't think that public transport shoud be "imagineered" around people who want to transport their animals... That seems a niche market and while I can see how the difficulties of transporting your animals might be irksome, surely that is part of the deal when one becomes a pet owner..?
> 
> Amtrak seems short of coaches, I can't see providing an exclusive coach on each train for transporting pets being a great money spinner.
> 
> Ed


That "niche market" you speak of is a billion dollar pet industry...Amtraks customer base would expand greatly IMO...but they are for sure less one customer here..so we can agree to disagree.


----------



## Ryan

I seriously doubt the Amtrak is missing out on billions of dollars because you can't take your dogs on the train. There are just as many people out there that can't/won't ride if the train turns into a rolling vet office (me, for example).

So yeah, keep dreaming.


----------



## Sher

Ryan said:


> I seriously doubt the Amtrak is missing out on billions of dollars because you can't take your dogs on the train. There are just as many people out there that can't/won't ride if the train turns into a rolling vet office (me, for example).
> 
> So yeah, keep dreaming.



As I said in the above post for those of you who choose NOT to travel with pets:

"IF the customers that don't like pets or want to be around them have a problem, they can sit in the NO pet section"

Hmm...rolling vet office ? Now who is the one dreaming...lol :giggle:


----------



## Ben_G

So Amtrak would need to schedule stops along the route's for passengers to walk Fido. Like said you want to keep a lot of people off the train then allow pets in coaches or sleepers. I can't stand the smell of a pet store and animals have accidents that require cleanup no matter how well trained they are.


----------



## Texan Eagle

What exactly are "small animals"?

Can I bring a small elephant with me on an Amtrak coach car? I totally need him to be with me, else I can't travel. He is quite small and well behaved. He will quietly stand in the aisle wagging his tail about. Still not allowed? Ok.


----------



## Oldsmoboi

Joel, What about when the blind person arrives at their destination? They'll need their service animal there as well even if they had the most helpful car attendant in the world on the train.


----------



## amamba

Oldsmoboi said:


> Joel, What about when the blind person arrives at their destination? They'll need their service animal there as well even if they had the most helpful car attendant in the world on the train.


They are allowed to take their service animals on the train. I have ridden on acela with a blind person with a service dog, and also when I was on the CS a passenger had his service dog in the PPC.


----------



## SarahZ

I loved that person back there (clearly without allergies) who said I should simply expose myself to the allergen in the real world more often, as it will build up a "tolerance". :giggle:  That's like telling a burn victim they should have built up a tolerance to fire by placing their hand on a hot burner every so often.


----------



## RRrich

My cat, my avatar, whom I adore has the run of my 2000 sq ft house. How do you think he would like being cooped up in a carrier or even a deluxe bedroom (with me & maybe my wife) on one of my multi-day train trips.

Doesn't sound fair to him so I travel without him.


----------



## Ryan

Sher said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt the Amtrak is missing out on billions of dollars because you can't take your dogs on the train. There are just as many people out there that can't/won't ride if the train turns into a rolling vet office (me, for example).
> 
> So yeah, keep dreaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said in the above post for those of you who choose NOT to travel with pets:
> 
> "IF the customers that don't like pets or want to be around them have a problem, they can sit in the NO pet section"
> 
> Hmm...rolling vet office ? Now who is the one dreaming...lol :giggle:
Click to expand...

How exactly is that going to work? Different sections of the same car? Not going to fly, as you'll still hear/smell/have allergic reactions from the beasts. Different cars? You greatly underestimate the absolute operational nightmare that would entail. It's really easy to say, but when you get into the actual details of how something is implemented, you quickly realize that it isn't workable.


----------



## jdcnosse

amamba said:


> Oldsmoboi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joel, What about when the blind person arrives at their destination? They'll need their service animal there as well even if they had the most helpful car attendant in the world on the train.
> 
> 
> 
> They are allowed to take their service animals on the train. I have ridden on acela with a blind person with a service dog, and also when I was on the CS a passenger had his service dog in the PPC.
Click to expand...

My first LD trip ever on the SWC there was a guy with a seizure dog with him. Second trip there was a lady with a dog in a kennel on the lower level of the coach car. Dunno what her condition was but I'm assuming it was still a service dog.


----------



## ABDeh88

I sat in the second to last row on a Superliner coach. Last was for crew but they let a blind man and his dog use it. He asked not to be seated downstairs. I overheard two service agents saying he was a high maintenance traveler but he was fine. He just requested knowing which stops he could walk his little black lab service dog.

But aside from service dogs being legally allowed, they're also trained to work for their owner which means behaving. If I didn't see the dog come aboard I wouldn't have known he was even there. That was a Denver to Galesburg leg on the CZ 6.


----------



## Dan O

WhoozOn1st said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's very unfortunate that Amtrak has this policy, but that's the way it is.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the policy is unfortunate at all. Service animals notwithstanding, those who feel the need to have their dogs, cats (mine's name is Intruder), parrots, monkeys, or wildebeests accompany them should use private methods of transportation, e.g. driving, or look into booking a seat on a circus train. Ringling Bros., Barnum & Bailey may have seats available, if you don't mind riding with midgets and clowns.
Click to expand...

Delayed reaction by a few years but still LOL at this one.

Belated thanks,

Dan


----------



## Meat Puppet

You can have pretty much any dog certified as a service dog online for about $100. Once you have those credentials amtrak employees cannot even question to what your disability is. The coast starlight is prime example as the upper class with their purse dogs get them certified as therapy,seizure,comfort dogs etc. They ride frequently and there is nothing onboard staff can do. Even questioning it is a violation of policy.


----------



## EB_OBS

Meat Puppet said:


> You can have pretty much any dog certified as a service dog online for about $100. Once you have those credentials amtrak employees cannot even question to what your disability is. The coast starlight is prime example as the upper class with their purse dogs get them certified as therapy,seizure,comfort dogs etc. They ride frequently and there is nothing onboard staff can do. Even questioning it is a violation of policy.


There's so much misinformation in your post it's scary.

First off, Amtrak CAN ask you if the animal is a "service animal." If you say it is, even though you know it isn't and it's not trained to do anything, then you are a liar. You make it more difficult for persons with a disability with a legitimate service animal to live their daily lives without being scrutinized whether they are honest or dishonest about the true nature of their animal.

Second, Amtrak CAN ask you "what is the animal trained to do." "It's a therapy animal" or "it's keeps my anxiety level down" are incorrect answers. The question is "WHAT is the animal TRAINED to do?"

These questions are NOT a violation of the ADA.

Third, the ADA specifically states that an animals presence, simply for comfort IS NOT a service animal. The animal MUST be trained to perform a task. Simply sitting on ones lap or being near is not a task.

Fourth, the ADA absolutely DOES NOT require any form of certification for any service animal. Anyone with a legitimate disability knows this. If you pay $100 for papers declaring an animal is a "service animal", you got robbed.

Additionally, ALL service animals must be trained to behave. They must be socialized and house broken. Any service animal that misbehaves, is barking or growling at people or is otherwise disruptive or is not house broken can be denied passage and/or removed from the train.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

EB_OBS said:


> There's so much misinformation in your post it's scary.
> 
> First off, Amtrak CAN ask you if the animal is a "service animal." If you say it is, even though you know it isn't and it's not trained to do anything, then you are a liar. You make it more difficult for persons with a disability with a legitimate service animal to live their daily lives without being scrutinized whether they are honest or dishonest about the true nature of their animal.
> 
> Second, Amtrak CAN ask you "what is the animal trained to do." "It's a therapy animal" or "it's keeps my anxiety level down" are incorrect answers. The question is "WHAT is the animal TRAINED to do?"
> 
> These questions are NOT a violation of the ADA.


I have to disagree with you. Asking such questions of a disabled person have indeed been ruled illegal by the courts.

Of course, there is a "catch 22" because if you are not disabled, then Amtrak (or any business) is free to ask such questions. It is only if you are disabled, that the courts found such questions to be demeaning.

If you search around, there are many examples of restaurants getting caught up in this. And yes, there is no easy answer for them. If someone walks in with a dog, there is no way for them to legally challenge the person (if they are truly disabled) or inquire about the actual function of the dog. As were correct about, there is no ADA card issued to ID disabled people, nor any ADA ID for service dogs, for which, a business can ask to see.


----------



## EB_OBS

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I have to disagree with you. Asking such questions of a disabled person have indeed been ruled illegal by the courts.


Per the ADA, and upheld by courts, you CANNOT ask a person about his or her disability. You CAN ask about the animal itself but only to the extent that I stated above.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

You would think disabled people _and_ their advocates _and_ their supporting organizations would be the first in line to address these rather glaring oversights. If all these loopholes and catch-22 situations are left unresolved they make abuse by others far too easy to perpetrate and far too difficult to prevent. As this abuse becomes more prevalent it risks delegitimizing the whole service animal process. Personally I never thought I'd ever be at odds with the ADA, but the more I learn about how incredibly rigid and opaque it is the less impressed I am. Why do people who can't easily traverse flat pavement need a dozen of parking spaces next to a rigorous hiking trail? Why does a simple train station active for all of six hours a week need to come with a million dollar construction bill? I don't want the whole ADA rolled back but it does sound like it could use some common sense reviews.


----------



## Meat Puppet

EB_OBS said:


> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can have pretty much any dog certified as a service dog online for about $100. Once you have those credentials amtrak employees cannot even question to what your disability is. The coast starlight is prime example as the upper class with their purse dogs get them certified as therapy,seizure,comfort dogs etc. They ride frequently and there is nothing onboard staff can do. Even questioning it is a violation of policy.
> 
> 
> 
> There's so much misinformation in your post it's scary.
> 
> First off, Amtrak CAN ask you if the animal is a "service animal." If you say it is, even though you know it isn't and it's not trained to do anything, then you are a liar. You make it more difficult for persons with a disability with a legitimate service animal to live their daily lives without being scrutinized whether they are honest or dishonest about the true nature of their animal.
> 
> Second, Amtrak CAN ask you "what is the animal trained to do." "It's a therapy animal" or "it's keeps my anxiety level down" are incorrect answers. The question is "WHAT is the animal TRAINED to do?"
> 
> These questions are NOT a violation of the ADA.
> 
> Third, the ADA specifically states that an animals presence, simply for comfort IS NOT a service animal. The animal MUST be trained to perform a task. Simply sitting on ones lap or being near is not a task.
> 
> Fourth, the ADA absolutely DOES NOT require any form of certification for any service animal. Anyone with a legitimate disability knows this. If you pay $100 for papers declaring an animal is a "service animal", you got robbed.
> 
> Additionally, ALL service animals must be trained to behave. They must be socialized and house broken. Any service animal that misbehaves, is barking or growling at people or is otherwise disruptive or is not house broken can be denied passage and/or removed from the train.
Click to expand...

I didnt say ADA requires certification, I said you can get certification online.

I didnt mention ADA at all in fact you did. Amtrak policy is not to ask.


----------



## Ryan

Meat Puppet said:


> I didnt mention ADA at all in fact you did. Amtrak policy is not to ask.


I would trust the Amtrak employee to know Amtrak policy, but that's just me.

Or we can go to the Service Standards manual:



> b) Emotional Support Animal (comfort animals) –
> 
> If an animal is accompanying a disabled person
> 
> simply to provide emotional support, security or
> 
> comfort; then this animal is NOT considered to
> 
> be a service animal. This animal has not been
> 
> individually trained to perform a task. Therefore,
> 
> an “emotional support” animal is NOT a service
> 
> animal. Amtrak is not required to allow this animal to
> 
> accompany a disabled individual on-board the train.





> c) Is This Your Pet
> 
> Credible verbal assurances is needed from the
> 
> passenger that the animal is a service animal. The
> 
> way to do this:
> 
> •* Ask the passenger, “Is this your pet?”*
> 
> *If the passenger responds that the animal is a*
> 
> *service animal and not a pet, but uncertainty*
> 
> *remains about the animal, you may ask*
> 
> *appropriate follow up questions.*
> 
> *• Ask the passenger, “What tasks or functions*
> 
> *does your animal perform for you?” or “What*
> 
> *has it been trained to do for you?”*
> 
> *The passenger must respond that the animal*
> 
> *acts as a guide, notifies of a seizures, etc.*
> 
> *Employees may not ask the passenger what*
> 
> *his/her disability is or the cause of the disability.*
> 
> • Although there may be a few people who try
> 
> to “beat the system” by bringing pets on-board
> 
> the train, most passengers with disabilities
> 
> claiming to have service animals really do have
> 
> service animals.
> 
> • Since access for persons with disabilities traveling
> 
> with service animals is a civil right covered
> 
> under the ADA, employees should err on the
> 
> side of caution by permitting access to passenger
> 
> areas. If the animal looks like a service animal
> 
> and the customer says it is a service animalwelcome
> 
> the animal aboard.
> 
> d) Not a Service Animal
> 
> • If an animal is determined not to be a service
> 
> animal or if the service animal poses a direct
> 
> threat to others, the animal can be denied
> 
> access to Amtrak premises.
> 
> • On the rare occasion that an animal has to be
> 
> excluded from Amtrak premises, you should
> 
> handle the situation in a polite and professional
> 
> manner.
> 
> • When an animal is excluded from Amtrak
> 
> premises while en route, the employee making
> 
> this decision must complete a “Passenger Incident


----------



## EB_OBS

Meat Puppet said:


> EB_OBS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can have pretty much any dog certified as a service dog online for about $100. Once you have those credentials amtrak employees cannot even question to what your disability is. The coast starlight is prime example as the upper class with their purse dogs get them certified as therapy,seizure,comfort dogs etc. They ride frequently and there is nothing onboard staff can do. Even questioning it is a violation of policy.
> 
> 
> 
> There's so much misinformation in your post it's scary.
> 
> First off, Amtrak CAN ask you if the animal is a "service animal." If you say it is, even though you know it isn't and it's not trained to do anything, then you are a liar. You make it more difficult for persons with a disability with a legitimate service animal to live their daily lives without being scrutinized whether they are honest or dishonest about the true nature of their animal.
> 
> Second, Amtrak CAN ask you "what is the animal trained to do." "It's a therapy animal" or "it's keeps my anxiety level down" are incorrect answers. The question is "WHAT is the animal TRAINED to do?"
> 
> These questions are NOT a violation of the ADA.
> 
> Third, the ADA specifically states that an animals presence, simply for comfort IS NOT a service animal. The animal MUST be trained to perform a task. Simply sitting on ones lap or being near is not a task.
> 
> Fourth, the ADA absolutely DOES NOT require any form of certification for any service animal. Anyone with a legitimate disability knows this. If you pay $100 for papers declaring an animal is a "service animal", you got robbed.
> 
> Additionally, ALL service animals must be trained to behave. They must be socialized and house broken. Any service animal that misbehaves, is barking or growling at people or is otherwise disruptive or is not house broken can be denied passage and/or removed from the train.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didnt say ADA requires certification, I said you can get certification online.
> 
> I didnt mention ADA at all in fact you did. Amtrak policy is not to ask.
Click to expand...

You are correct, you did not mention the ADA. However, the implication from your post is that a piece of paper, a "certification", means an animal is a service animal. It does not and it is not consistent with either the ADA or Amtrak policy.


----------



## EB_OBS

Just for additional info, Amtrak sends every employee to annual refresher training. This includes FRA mandated training in addition to blocks of CPR, first aid, customer service, sexual harassment, diversity, the ADA and other topics. The ADA class have been held for several years in a row now and are taught by Amtrak's legal department. Real high paid attorneys travel around the country to all the crew bases and give this class. There are also instructors who are persons with disabilities. They are who teach the ADA to Amtrak employees. That being said, I'm pretty sure they get it right.


----------



## Sher

Meat Puppet said:


> You can have pretty much any dog certified as a service dog online for about $100. Once you have those credentials amtrak employees cannot even question to what your disability is. The coast starlight is prime example as the upper class with their purse dogs get them certified as therapy,seizure,comfort dogs etc. They ride frequently and there is nothing onboard staff can do. Even questioning it is a violation of policy.



Wow...awesome! Service dogs rock :wub: Thanks for the info


----------



## Palmland

A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

I'd rather be able to purchase a ride in that roomette instead of turning it into a furry flophouse.


----------



## me_little_me

Palmland said:


> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!


A better idea:

Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"


----------



## Donctor

me_little_me said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> 
> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
Click to expand...

Someone had a spaniel in the Apple Store an hour ago.


----------



## amamba

me_little_me said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> 
> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
Click to expand...

You don't have to like pets, but advocating animal cruelty isn't very nice. And yes, throwing a living creature out of a moving train would absolutely be inhumane and cruel, regardless of how you feel about having pets on a train.


----------



## jb64

amamba said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> 
> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't have to like pets, but advocating animal cruelty isn't very nice. And yes, throwing a living creature out of a moving train would absolutely be inhumane and cruel, regardless of how you feel about having pets on a train.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That post was just cruel.


----------



## Sher

Palmland said:


> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!


I so agree with you...the world is evolving when it comes to pet travel and making it easier. Amtrak has fallen behind in my opinion...and I know so many people that won't use Amtrak because of this. This forum seems to be somewhat full of pet "haters" and unfriendlys (which is really sad, and notice I didn't say all)...so it's great to see posts like this.  Here's hoping to see you in the pet section high end someday ...he he he


----------



## Sher

me_little_me said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> 
> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
Click to expand...

This post is exactly what I was talking about when I said this forum is somewhat (not all) full of pet haters...it's sad ....this person is sick and needs help.


----------



## Ryan

I don't hate pets, I have several of them.

There's just no place for them on Amtrak, and instance that there is belies a fundamental ignorance of the operational challenges that maintaining a separate fleet of "pet" and "non" pet cars would entail.


----------



## me_little_me

amamba said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to like pets, but advocating animal cruelty isn't very nice. And yes, throwing a living creature out of a moving train would absolutely be inhumane and cruel, regardless of how you feel about having pets on a train.
Click to expand...

The two of you need to lighten up. I have had pets all my life. My two grown sons have pets. We have volunteered and financially helped pet rescues and humane societies.


----------



## Ryan

Well then, why you would say something like that is beyond me.


----------



## Steve4031

me_little_me said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> 
> A designated pet room, presumably roomette, is a good idea. I suspect many pets are less intrusive than some passengers, but I understand allergies are a problem for some. Pre-Amtrak I recall looking in the windows of the sleepers on Florida trains and it was fairly common to see a french poodle or other small dog in the lap of its owner looking back at me. And, as someone mentioned, in Europe dogs are often on trains (and in restaurants). It is also interesting that in high end hotels, it is now not unusual to see pets (as well as at the lower end Super 8 type motels). Certainly taking our Basset Hound on the train for a trip would save a lot of kennel expense and make our dog and its owner much happier!
> 
> 
> 
> A better idea:
> 
> Well hello, Poopsie! I see your owner is in the diner and they left you all alone in the room. Would you like to go out for a walk? Sure, just come along on your leash. Let me open the door for you. Now don't mid the rocking. Here, I'll tie your 'Poopsie Sleeping Basket' to your leash and I'll put it outside. Then it will be easy for you to follow it. Bye!"
Click to expand...


Hope you like hanging out with people like Micheal Vick. He got his last week. IMHO, you could jump off the train while its moving. Just make sure you dont jump on the side where there is a track. Don't what to delay freight traffic. No place for animal cruelty in my book.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Fellows, as was said, ligten up!  Its the holidays, no place for Animal or People Cruelty on Amtrak! I personally dont want dogs and cats in my car, but I understand how great pets can be AT HOME where they belong! :excl: :excl: :excl: (And youre right about Vick, Vince Young is much more a Winner than that thug, and I hate the Eagles! :angry2: Roll Cowboys! :wub: )


----------



## jb64

Ryan said:


> Well then, why you would say something like that is beyond me.


exactly.


----------



## henryj

when I rode the Alaska RR's winter train they were picking up dog sled teams along the route. They mostly stayed in the baggage car, but one lady brought her Husky through the coach. I was big as a small horse. I have no idea what their policy is in the summer on the tourist trains.


----------



## Amtrak George

RE: KITTY ON TRAIN: We have an adorable black kitty plus two dogs. I might like having them with me on an occasional train ride. However, Amtrak has fixed consists and limited amounts of accommodations. In case anyone hasn't heard, they are very short of equipment and are continually fighting for their continued existence due to funding problems. It isn't financially feasible to have designated cars or areas for pets on Amtrak. I will just kennel my animals when I ride the train.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

I have no specific problem with a _much larger_ Amtrak fleet offering pet-friendly accommodations for well heeled patrons in the future. I just don't think they'll ever receive the kind of funding they'd need to setup that kind of a service without impacting those of us who do not travel with pets. Under no circumstances do I find cruelty to animals funny or amusing or lighthearted. Even if you don't care one wit about animal cruelty it's important to remember that some of the most vicious and sadistic members of our society started out abusing and torturing animals before moving on to human prey.


----------



## haolerider

Texas Sunset said:


> I have no specific problem with a _much larger_ Amtrak fleet offering pet-friendly accommodations for well heeled patrons in the future. I just don't think they'll ever receive the kind of funding they'd need to setup that kind of a service without impacting those of us who do not travel with pets. Under no circumstances do I find cruelty to animals funny or amusing or lighthearted. Even if you don't care one wit about animal cruelty it's important to remember that some of the most vicious and sadistic members of our society started out abusing and torturing animals before moving on to human prey.


There has been talk for years about creating a pet car for the AutoTrain - sponsored by Purina or some other company. There are plans drawn and an implementation plans exists, however it has not gone beyond that phase as of yet. It would be staffed by a rep of the food company and allow visitation of the pets by the passengers. Not a bad idea, but it takes someone to drive the concept.


----------



## Henry Kisor

A former high-upper at Amtrak recently told me it's unlikely that Amtrak will ever relax the no-pets rule. For one thing, in these litigious days many awsuits are filed by people who claim allergic reactions to pets carried on laps in airplanes. Talk has gone on for years about kennel cars (especially on the Auto Train) but "concerns about mechanical failure of environment systems and a disinclination to have to maintain them" has so far put the kibosh on them.


----------



## Sher

Ryan said:


> I don't hate pets, I have several of them.
> 
> There's just no place for them on Amtrak, and instance that there is belies a fundamental ignorance of the operational challenges that maintaining a separate fleet of "pet" and "non" pet cars would entail.


And I quote from NARP:

"The idea is not a new one. Amtrak (and its predecessors) allowed pets on board until 1976, often in three places—sleeping car rooms, parlor cars (in carriers), and in baggage cars.

Amtrak changed the policy in 1976. Pets were banned from sleeping and parlor cars. They were allowed in containers of specified dimensions in the baggage car (on those trains that had them). Passengers were allowed to visit them en route during station stops of ten minutes or more “when passenger safety and operating conditions permit, by making arrangements with the train conductor.” The reason for the change seems to have been the need to thoroughly clean sleeping car rooms whenever passengers changed over en-route. [smoking is now also banned in such rooms.] NARP objected to the change at the time.

Then in 1977, the federal government issued new animal welfare regulations affecting carriage of pets on trains. There were new requirements for the heating and air conditioning of railroad cars that carry live animals, and for providing a constant supply of fresh water to animals. The agency issuing the requirements was the Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS), acting under the Federal Animal Welfare Act of 1966 (as amended in 1976). Amtrak determined that it would need to spend $13.8 million on baggage car changes and special animal shelters in stations to satisfy the new regulations, and ended the carriage of pets rather than comply."

It all comes down to money...pets have been transported by Amtrak...they just don't want to spend the money....and your *Just no place for them on Amtrak* is your opinion my friend (Amtrak in the past transported many animals lol) ...and there are many others that would highly disagree with you


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## EB_OBS

So yesterday this lady is carrying a dog in a kennel. A cute little poodle wearing a sweater and looked like it just left the salon. When asked if the animal was a pet she said "no, it's my therapy animal." When asked if the animal was trained she said "my cardiologist recommended a service animal for her therapy." Nobody asked her about a disability or her doctor. Essentially the animal in question wasn't trained to do anything.

That's exactly why, even with the recent changes, the service animal part of the ADA is still too vague and why it will continue to be abused by people who have no legitimate need for a service animal and by people who are lying just to bring their pets onboard.

I have no problem personally with animals. I have five pets myself. I wouldn't have a problem if Amtrak allowed pets. The point is it doesn't and people are devious and dishonest in order to bring their pets. Then every person with a service animal that isn't blatantly obvious, like a seeing eye dog, is then looked upon with suspicion.


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## Shanghai

We have a small dog. He is well trained and we keep him well groomed

and in a wellness program with our vet. He is usually a delight, although

there are times when he is a challenge!!

There have been times when we either flew or drove when we take the dog.

I do not think pets should be permitted on the train because they do not

have facilities (either on the train or at stations) for pets. I have

seen people with pets on the train that are obviously not service animals.

I think Amtrak does a poor job of enforcing their rules for pets.


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## dlagrua

My son who is currently producing a new show for MTV just took his best pal Mr Winston the Yorkie to Georgia with him via air. The cost was an extra $250 and he had to fly in first class. The airline doesn't have any problem transporting pets and has no concern with passenger allergies or whatever.

Its just a matter of cost. If Amtrak wanted to add a pet car to the Autotrain it can easily be done. You approach a corporate sponsor like Purina, Friskies etc and let them run the pet car. Give them the sides of the car for thier traveling billboard. Of course anyone that wanted to transport their animal would have to pay the cost of a ticket, part of which goes to the operator and the sponsor. Cats use litter boxes but the problem would be the walking of the dogs. The 1 hour layover at Florence could probably be used for this. I can see this service being heavily used on the Autotrain as it the main route where "snowbirds" regularly commute to and from their winter home.


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## singwith

I know that Metrolink allow animals in carriers and I think Amtrak do the same on the short distance train such as surfliner.


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## Dan O

singwith said:


> I know that Metrolink allow animals in carriers and I think Amtrak do the same on the short distance train such as surfliner.


_Consistent with federal regulations, companion animals, pets, therapy, comfort, or emotional support animals are not classified as service animals for purposes of public transit, and cannot ride on Metrolink trains except when in appropriate animal carriers. For this reason, Metrolink personnel may ask these questions: Is this your pet? Is this an individually trained service animal? What service has this animal been individually trained to do or help you to do?_

http://www.metrolinktrains.com/about/?id=15


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## Ryan

Sher said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hate pets, I have several of them.
> 
> There's just no place for them on Amtrak, and instance that there is belies a fundamental ignorance of the operational challenges that maintaining a separate fleet of "pet" and "non" pet cars would entail.
> 
> 
> 
> It all comes down to money...pets have been transported by Amtrak...they just don't want to spend the money....and your *Just no place for them on Amtrak* is your opinion my friend (Amtrak in the past transported many animals lol) ...and there are many others that would highly disagree with you
Click to expand...

So what? Like Texas Sunset said, if they had a ton on money there would be a place for them. But back here in reality where Amtrak barely has enough money to survive, it ain't going to happen. It isn't a matter of "don't want to spend the money", it's "there is no money to spend". That's not an opinion, that's a cold, hard fact. Your wishing it weren't so doesn't change a thing. 
What would you cut out of Amtrak's budget to make this happen?


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## amamba

There are definitely two issues when considering pets on amtrak trains. The first is on the LD routes - and as previously mentioned, this would require a lot more work than the short haul trains.

I do think that there could be some policies to allow pets on short trains, for example, my dogs easily sit through a 4-5 hour car ride without a break and would do fine on a train. But I do suppose the logistics of this are quite complex - how do you make the rule, how do you enforce it if someone is breaking it, etc. For example it seems that a BOS - NYP route would be fine for most house trained animals in regards to the bathroom situation if they were in a carrier and underneath a seat like in a plane, but how do you allow that and not a BOS - PHL pax or someone going farther down the line. Just too many details for everyone to work out so it seems like the policy is reasonable at this point.

Although I would love to bring my lap dog on the train with me on those short hauls like PVD - PHL or BOS - NYP.


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