# A Tale Of Two Corridors



## CPRTim

I was in Chicago recently for a conference and by adding on a vacation day it gave me time to return home by rail and sample the corridor routes of Amtrak and VIA between Chicago, Detroit/Windsor and Toronto.

Staying at a hotel near the Airport, I first had to get downtown. A quick taxi ride got me to the O’Hare Transfer Station on the Metra North-Central Line then it was only about 35 minutes to Union Station. This gave me plenty of time for breakfast before my Amtrak train at 8:30.

The last time I did this route, Amtrak #350 the first Wolverine Service of the day left Chicago around 8am which would have given me a little extra time to connect to VIA in Windsor.........But hopefully all will go well and the extra time wouldn’t be needed!

As we boarded I wanted to get a couple of pictures but being a foreigner and not knowing the security situation in CUS, I didn’t want to risk it. I also didn’t want to have pen and paper out to record the consist but noted it included a P42+5 cars. A good size crowd boarded but I was able to get a seat to myself. I would liked to have up-graded to a business class seat but none were available when I made my reservation and still no last minute cancellations when I picked up my ticket.

I wonder why Amtrak doesn’t provide a full First Class product between Chicago and Detroit? Looking at the population of these cities and the intermediate points they should be able to support such a service. Also there are only three trains a day each way (+ the Bluewater on a portion) Considering Detroit/Windsor as one Metro area (a lot of Michigan residents use VIA for trips to Toronto from Windsor especially on weekends) and the large end point cities of Chicago and Toronto respectively, the markets served by each leg of this corridor would be very similar. But VIA has 4 trains a day from Windsor to Toronto and when you reach the mid point city of London there are an additional 4 trains to Toronto. VIA-1 First Class is available on 5 of the 8 trains from London to Toronto. Travel time: Windsor>Toronto: 225 miles is covered in 3hrs/55min to 4hrs/21min. Chicago>Detroit: 280 miles: in about 5hrs/30>40min.

We departed on time and were moving along quite well for the first few miles until we ground to a halt and waited. Then moved forward then waited some more for a couple of NS freights. By the time we reached Amtrak owned trackage at Porter we were 25 minutes late. Stops to meet a couple of westbound Amtrak trains were only momentary. East of Kalamazoo we were back on NS again and another meet with a freight. Total time lost is now 45 minutes.

Just after leaving Battle Creek I made my way to the café for a snack. I was on the DownEaster recently and was impressed by the snack bar selection available but no such luck on the Wolverine. Just the usual snack-bar fare so I settled for a turkey sandwich, chips and coffee. Why not have some specialty items on here too? There was a bit of a line but the attendant was certainly moving things along quickly with a friendly word to everyone. He certainly earned a tip! Not like the fellow between New York and Boston a couple of months ago who literally threw the food at me then made a snarky comment when I didn’t tip! Even the Conductor had time for a quick word with everyone as he collected tickets. (Almost felt like my trip on VIA had already begun!)

If Amtrak #350 is on time, the connection to VIA #78 is quite do-able by public transit. You have 2 hours and 10 minutes to cover the 6 miles between stations. A taxi will take you all the way but there is a surcharge for crossing the border. (taxi fare was about $35 five years ago) Windsor Transit’s Tunnel Bus loops through downtown Detroit then crosses back over to Windsor through the tunnel every 20 minutes. (30 minutes on weekends) So the cheapest way is Detroit Transit (or taxi) from Amtrak to downtown. Change to the Tunnel Bus then connect to another Windsor Transit bus (or taxi) to VIA in Windsor.

(For Information: In the westbound direction a same day trip from Toronto shouldn’t be any problem at all. VIA #71 departs Toronto at 7:50am and arrives in Windsor at 11:45am. You have 6 hours to cross over to Detroit for Amtrak #355 at 5:53pm and into Chicago at 10:38pm. (There is also VIA #73 which gets into Windsor at 4:00pm allowing 1hr 53min to connect )

But we arrive into Detroit 35 minutes late...........Can I still make it?

I’m quickly into a taxi and headed to a Windsor Transit stop in downtown Detroit. I have about a 5 minute wait for the Tunnel Bus and then a short lineup going thru Canada Customs. Rush hour has probably added about 25 minutes to my travel time so far so instead of connecting to another Windsor Transit bus I decide to grab a cab that I pass on my way from the Tunnel Plaza to the bus stop. I’m at VIA just as #78 starts to board.

I get a couple of pictures (an LRC consist led by a P-42) and go aboard. I’ve upgraded to VIA-1 First Class and before we are even moving the attendant has passed around a basket of snacks and offered a complementary bar service. Great to just sit back now with a beer and relax (And the Hot Towel to freshen-up was certainly appreciated after the rush of the past hour and a half!)

Five miles out of Windsor we enter VIA owned track for the next 36 miles to Chatham where CN takes over for the remainder of the run into Toronto. Currently there is a proposal that will see VIA take a different route between Chatham and Windsor on tracks that lead directly to the Detroit River Rail Tunnel (and possibly through service to Chicago!!!) Something is probably in the works as VIA’s current station in Windsor is the only major station in the Corridor that hasn’t been substantially upgraded.

Dinner time now and here’s the menu: (I have the Veal which is very good)

Appatizer:

Tomato goat cheese terrine with cucumber.

Main course

Grilled ChickenWild mushroom sauce, roast fingerling potatoes and PEI vegetables.

or

Almond Crusted Rainbow Trout

Spinach rice, chunky marinara sauce.

or

Veal Parmesan

With linguini Alfredo.

Meals are served with a selection of bread.

Dessert

Blueberry swirl cheesecake.

Cold Plate Selection

Teriyaki Pork Tenderloin

Oriental noodle salad with sesame.

Assorted cheeses and fresh fruit.

An hour and forty-five minutes out of Windsor we are slowing for London. Here a connection is made to #88 arriving from Sarnia in about 30min. It’s also bound for Toronto on the former International’s schedule but running on Rail America’s Goderich-Exeter Railway via Stratford and Kitchener. We pick up quite a few passengers in London. (I actually live here but have to be in Toronto in the morning so will return after work tomorrow evening) The VIA-1 car is about 3\4 full leaving London. The service is excellent and the attendants seam to know a lot of the passengers.

After dinner a Liqueur is served along with one of VIA’s signature Chocolate Truffles. (Attendant says take two!) Wi-Fi is available on most Corridor trains in VIA-1 (and coach) so I log onto internet and check my e-mail. A quick stop in Brantford a couple of minutes early then we start losing passengers at Aldershot (Hamilton) and Oakville where connections are made with GO Transit bi-levels serving the western suburbs. Approaching Toronto we’re passing everything on the parallel Gardner Expressway then come to a halt in Union Station right on time at 9:21pm.


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## Steve4031

I live in Chiago, and have ridden most of the corridor trains. Thee new business class is a big improvement, but is still vastly inferior to what is offered on the east cost. In California, the food service on the capitol corridor trains was superior too. I like the California cars better than the Horizon and amfleet cars in the midwest.

A through Toronto to Chicago train via Detroit is a great idea. How recent are those plans. This is the first that I have heard about this in the last year or two.


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## Sam Damon

Steve,

You of course remember Amtrak used to run a train on that route. For others just joining us here, owing to Michigan's desire to run the train on a different schedule, it went away in 2004. This makes sense when one considers Michigan was stumping up the cash for Michigan residents to have convenient train service.

Surf here to get an idea of how things went on that run.

EDIT: Big oops up above. See my later post.


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## NS VIA FAN

Sam Damon said:


> Steve,
> You of course remember Amtrak used to run a train on that route.......


Amtrak never had a train between Chicago and Toronto via the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel. It went through Port Huron/Sarnia (as noted in the link you provided)

The last through train between Chicago and Toronto using the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel would have been a joint New York Central - Canadian Pacific service in the 1960s.

Amtrak trains did use the Tunnel but these were through trains between Detroit and Buffalo then onto New York City using 250 mile of Canada Southern track across Ontario.

The CN line VIA uses to Windsor does not have a direct connection to the Tunnel. CN trains terminated on the waterfront and until the 1950s, through cars from Detroit would be ferried across the river and attached to CN trains for the run to Toronto.

I’ve always thought a good solution to providing a cross border service between Toronto and Windsor/Detroit would be a new joint Amtrak/VIA station in Detroit.

VIA’s trains would terminate in Detroit and passengers would then clear US Customs and Immigration in a new Detroit Station (similar to what Amtrak does in Vancouver now) then continue their journey on a connecting Amtrak train to Chicago. In reverse, Canada Customs would also work in the same new Detroit Station and clear passengers bound for Canada prior to boarding a VIA train to Toronto. A through train would also be an option.

When Canadians fly to the US from major Canadian airports they go through US Customs and Immigration in Canada prior to boarding the flight. So the precedence is already there for a similar “pre-clearance” scenario at a new joint station in Detroit. Just seams to complicated when rail is involved!


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## Sam Damon

NS VIA FAN said:


> Sam Damon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve,
> You of course remember Amtrak used to run a train on that route.......
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak never had a train between Chicago and Toronto via the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel. It went through Port Huron/Sarnia (as noted in the link you provided)
> 
> The last through train between Chicago and Toronto using the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel would have been a joint New York Central - Canadian Pacific service in the 1960s.
> 
> Amtrak trains did use the Tunnel but these were through trains between Detroit and Buffalo then onto New York City using 250 mile of Canada Southern track across Ontario.
> 
> The CN line VIA uses to Windsor does not have a direct connection to the Tunnel. CN trains terminated on the waterfront and until the 1950s, through cars from Detroit would be ferried across the river and attached to CN trains for the run to Toronto.
> 
> I’ve always thought a good solution to providing a cross border service between Toronto and Windsor/Detroit would be a new joint Amtrak/VIA station in Detroit.
Click to expand...

You're right. My bad. Somewhere I got my brain mixed up.

I did once ride VIA from Windsor to Toronto, in September 1985. A relative living in Detroit took me across the river to the station, and I had a pleasant trip on VIA to Toronto, where I hung out for a couple days. My return was on the Maple Leaf from Toronto to Buffalo, and then bus (ugh!) to the 'Burgh.

Detroit's station isn't in as useful a location today as it was then; if Amtrak is going to build a joint station, I think I'd like to see it in Dearborn, MI. Not that it's going to happen anytime soon.


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## CPRTim

Steve4031 said:


> A through Toronto to Chicago train via Detroit is a great idea. How recent are those plans. This is the first that I have heard about this in the last year or two.


It was a proposal in a report from 2005:

http://www.citywindsor.ca/documents/Windsor_What_Now.pdf

I still like to think that the reason VIA has not invested in a major up-grade at their Windsor Station as something is still in the works for a new location on a direct line to the tunnel.


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## Steve4031

Having VIA trains run into Detroit and using a better located station than the present one is a great idea. I would love to see VIA LRC equipment run through to Chicago. Or maybe some superliners from Chicago to Toronto on Amtrak. Anything would be better that the present arrangement.


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## George Harris

just a line added to drag this thread into 2008


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## MrFSS

Steve4031 said:


> Having VIA trains run into Detroit and using a better located station than the present one is a great idea. I would love to see VIA LRC equipment run through to Chicago. Or maybe some superliners from Chicago to Toronto on Amtrak. Anything would be better that the present arrangement.


Steve - or anyone - is there enough passenger demand for this to be considered? Would a Chicago to Toronto train stop to receive and discharge of passengers anywhere else along the line in Canada, or be like the Amtrak train of many years ago that just used Canadian track as a way to shorten the distance between point A and point B?


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## NS VIA FAN

I did this trip in November but in reverse. I arrived in Windsor on VIA at noon and had a couple of hours to visit with friends downtown before taking the Tunnel Bus over to Detroit. I still had plenty of time to catch a Detroit Transit bus to the Amtrak Station but decided on a taxi instead.

The big cost in taking a taxi all the way from one station to the other is the surcharge for crossing the border. Using the Tunnel Bus eliminates this.

And remember too: all you need currently (January 2008) for crossing the US/CAN Border (by land or ferry) is your Birth Certificate and Government Issued Photo ID. (e.g. Drivers License) A Passport is only required for Air travel.


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## AlanB

MrFSS said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having VIA trains run into Detroit and using a better located station than the present one is a great idea. I would love to see VIA LRC equipment run through to Chicago. Or maybe some superliners from Chicago to Toronto on Amtrak. Anything would be better that the present arrangement.
> 
> 
> 
> Steve - or anyone - is there enough passenger demand for this to be considered? Would a Chicago to Toronto train stop to receive and discharge of passengers anywhere else along the line in Canada, or be like the Amtrak train of many years ago that just used Canadian track as a way to shorten the distance between point A and point B?
Click to expand...

The International back when it ran, made like 10 stops within Canada, before it's final stop in Toronto.


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## NS VIA FAN

MrFSS said:


> Steve - or anyone - is there enough passenger demand for this to be considered? Would a Chicago to Toronto train stop to receive and discharge of passengers anywhere else along the line in Canada,


I think it would be much more practical for the service to be an extension of an existing Amtrak and VIA train making stops in the corridor as they do now. To cross the border then run non-stop to Toronto (225 miles) would loose a lot of potential traffic at cities such as Chatham, London, Brantford, Hamilton (Aldershot) etc. VIA currently does a very good business from Detroit area passengers crossing the border and boarding at Windsor. Especially for weekends tripS to Toronto.



MrFSS said:


> or be like the Amtrak train of many years ago that just used Canadian track as a way to shorten the distance between point A and point B?


I believe you are referring to Amtrak’s Niagara Rainbow that ran on Penn Central owned track (later Conrail) across Canada between Detroit and Buffalo. These trains originally ran nonstop but later Canadian stops were added at Windsor, St. Thomas and Fort Erie.


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## Green Maned Lion

I doubt they could run the Niagara Rainbow these days, what with all the red tape.


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## NS VIA FAN

Green Maned Lion said:


> I doubt they could run the Niagara Rainbow these days, what with all the red tape.


How simple things were pre 9-11!

Prior to Amtrak, the Niagara Rainbow’s route was New York Central’s main route from Detroit to Buffalo and on to Boston and New York. Multiple trains a day, some with sleeping cars only and running in several sections. Hundreds of passengers passing thru Canada daily between US destinations and probably most didn’t even realize they were in Canada.

And in the reverse, there were several Canadian trains that passed thru the United States between Canadian points:

CN (and later VIA) had a tri-weekly RDC between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay that crossed into the US at Warroad, Minnesota then re-entered Canada at Rainy River, Ontario. Train lasted until May 1977.

If you go way back to the ‘60s: A CP RDC run between Montreal and Wells River, Vermont (Originally through to Boston) would cross into the US for about 10 miles to serve a couple of Vermont towns, then continued on back into Canada for 10 miles to a couple of stops in Quebec then finally back into Vermont. Don’t know how US and Canadian Customs handled this one!

And a train I rode often: VIA’s “Atlantic” between Montreal - Saint John - Halifax on 200 miles of Canadian Pacific track across Maine. (Now the Shortline: Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway)

There were different procedures in handling the "Atlantic" over the years. When it was a Canadian Pacific operated train usually only the coach passengers were inspected by US Customs at the border and sleeping car passengers were just left alone. Anyone boarding the train in Maine was inspected by Canadian Customs at Magantic, Quebec or McAdam, New Brunswick when it crossed back into Canada. This was the same procedure when VIA took over and extended the Atlantic through to Halifax in Oct. 1979. The Atlantic was first discontinued in Nov. 1981.

When the Atlantic was reinstated in June 1985 there was a whole new set of rules: Now US Customs and the INS insisted everyone would be inspected. Even the Sleeping Car passengers were wakened eastbound at 3amET in Jackman, Maine. Westbound wasn’t as bad: 9pmET (10pmAT) at Vanceboro. The trains were running long and full so there were major delays.

The restored Atlantic was only back a short time before people were calling for it to rerouted via Edmundston, New Brunswick to avoid crossing the US border. Passengers were switching to VIA’s Ocean to escape the hassle from US officials even if they had to change trains and wait a couple of hours in Moncton.

The trains always made several stops in Maine: Vanceboro, Danforth, Mattawamkeag, Brownville Jct., Greenville and Jackman. Local passengers were handled between US stops but anyone boarding in the US and going to Canada were checked by Canada Customs when the trains reached McAdam NB or Megantic, Quebec.

It took a couple of years of negotiations but eventually the train was “Sealed” across the US with a “Metal Tag” being placed on all doors except in the one car where the US Customs Inspector rode and only checked those getting off in the US. The “Atlantic” was discontinued in December 1994.


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