# day/night running



## Charles (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi - I've always wondered why opposing trains on a route have roughly the same day/night running?


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## Qapla (Jul 28, 2019)

Not sure if I understand the question but I'll try a comment ...

On many LD trains, the prefered times are given to the originating city. Both the SS and the SM run from MIA-NYP. The two trains start out about 2 hours apart giving a nice daytime departure time to their originating city. This results in the rest of the schedule getting the off-hours with the trains passing their counterpart sometime during the trip.


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## drdumont (Jul 28, 2019)

Agreed, and I am guessing it is an equation with many variables, viz.:
Platform scheduling in the originating city
Rail traffic in the originating city
Labor concerns (attendants, agents, etc)
Turnaround time (when did the incoming train arrive and what is the labor schedule for turnaround crew)
Enroute traffic patterns and congestion - gotta consider those nasty old freight trains nowadays
In the Good Old Days, you probably had several trains a day - morning train, midday train, evening train - which would allow travelers boarding/alighting enroute to choose a train with train time not at Oh Dark Thirty.


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## Frimbo's Grandson (Jul 28, 2019)

At least for the CA Zephyr and Empire Builder, the timetables are arranged to take maximum advantage of mountain scenery in the Rockies and through the Sierras/Cascades


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## drdumont (Jul 28, 2019)

Well, I really wish the EB or the California trains would leave Chicago later in the day. Even if it were on time, you can't connect from the Texas Eagle on the same day. While Chicago is a great town to visit, I don't always have the time. 
Maybe the Eagle would arrive a couple hours early some day... Right after the the squadron of donkeys pass overhead, and the Rangers win the World Series, and we get the Sunset Limited running to Miami once again...


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## charles (Jul 28, 2019)

While accepting all the reasons from drdumont, I suspect most on this list would like to see the scenery that we're missing - at least once.


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## Qapla (Jul 28, 2019)

We do have to keep in mind that, since the train runs basically 24/7, it cannot have all daytime stops ... just not possible


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## Charles (Jul 28, 2019)

Qapla said:


> We do have to keep in mind that, since the train runs basically 24/7, it cannot have all daytime stops ... just not possible



That isn't at all what I'm talking about - read the previous messages.


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## drdumont (Jul 29, 2019)

Yep, it would be nice if there were more than one train a day on the LD runs. So you could see all the scenery. Alas, we are just scrod.


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## Charles (Jul 29, 2019)

OR - the two schedules were offset by a half-day ;-)


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## Qapla (Jul 29, 2019)

If the two schedules were offset by half a day then those traveling in each of those directions would only see the same light and dark scenery while on that train ... not everyone takes a round-trip ... two trains a day would offer all riders the option


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## velotrain (Jul 29, 2019)

Well - they would need to take the trip twice to experience the whole ride in daylight, so I don't see what the difference is. Besides, one option would be far less expensive to implement - not that I imagine it will be.


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## bratkinson (Jul 29, 2019)

As I think I understand the question being: "why do LD trains cover the same territory in daylight regardless of eastward or westward direction?", the answer is reasonably simple.

It all comes down to making connections in Chicago and reasonable arrival and departure times at end point cities.

In Chicago, the general 'pattern' is trains from the east arrive in the 9AM-Noon time slot and make connections to the west in the 2PM-4PM time slot. Trains from the west arrive in the 2PM-4PM time slot to connect to east coast trains departing 6PM-10PM. Throw in the need to keep platforms reasonably open during the AM and PM rush hours for Metra commuter trains at both sides of the station. Having all the trains from both coasts arrive at 7-9AM, for example, would would cause major delays to Metra trains due to lack of track and platforms. In short, connectivity to other LD trains and working with Metra are paramount to scheduling trains at Chicago. The same 'rules' apply to NYP, PHL, WAS, and LAX, too. Amtrak scheduling generally avoids commuter train rush hours at the major stations.

Passengers generally want to depart and arrive during daylight hours. But early evening is reasonable as well. #48 departing CHI at 9:30PM is scheduled as a 'clean up' train that carries misconnects from the West and sometimes (note: 'sometimes') will wait for really late trains from the west. For what it's worth, back in the late '70s, I'd arrive at CUS on the Cardinal about 8-9PM (the schedule was 12 hrs different than today) as it allowed me to be at an east coast client and make it aboard the Cardinal at WAS for its then 9:30PM departure, even connecting from late east coast LD trains. I'd then take the North Star at 10:30PM to Milwaukee where I lived at the time. Unfortunately, that Cardinal schedule and the North Star are both gone, likely never to return.

So, what happens with the one LD train per day, the both the first and last 300-500 miles are in daylight (summer time), and everywhere in the middle gets whatever arrival/departure times the LD train passes through. That's why Cleveland, Minneapolis, and San Antonio are generally in the dark both ways most of the year. Also note that the more scenic portions of each LD route are done in daylight both ways, a notable exception is the New River Gorge on the Cardinal and the Hudson and Mohawk rivers on the Lake Shore Ltd. Both scenic highlights are in daylight one way only.


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## dogbert617 (Jul 29, 2019)

bratkinson said:


> As I think I understand the question being: "why do LD trains cover the same territory in daylight regardless of eastward or westward direction?", the answer is reasonably simple.
> 
> It all comes down to making connections in Chicago and reasonable arrival and departure times at end point cities.
> 
> ...



In the summer provided either the Card or Lake Shore was ACTUALLY running on time, one would be able to see the New River Gorge going west and Hudson River going south respectively just before darkness. Will say if either train ran late or if you going through either area from fall to spring, there's probably a great chance you wouldn't pass through either area just before darkness.

Other long distance train route highlights that are one direction only for seeing them in daylight would be the stretch between Saint Cloud and Red Wing, MN going east on Empire Builder(west is in darkness), the Pecos River Trestle between Del Rio and Alpine, TX on Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle going west, and between about the Provo/Helper, UT area, going east to Grand Junction on California Zephyr. And on Sunset Limited(SL only stretch) going west, one would only see going over the Huey Long Bridge in daylight, heading west of New Orleans.


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## Lindsay W (Jul 31, 2019)

I wish we could see more of Arizona/California but we pass through in the dark, no matter if coming or going. Can't see anything between 11pm - 4am. Boo.


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## velotrain (Jul 31, 2019)

Besides Bratkinson's list, I would think Twin Cities to Minot can't be any worse than the dreary views I had in North Dakota and far northern Montana. I suspect the landscape east and west of Spokane is quite bucolic, but realize it's competing with the Columbia River. I also suspect DC to Atlanta is much more pleasant than Atlanta to N'awlins.


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