# AGR cancellation policy



## Tumbleweed (Jan 10, 2013)

I am planning on taking an extended trip in February....have any changes in the AGR cancellation policy taken effect yet? i.e., can you still cancel and/or reschedule sleeper reservations right up to departure time?


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## the_traveler (Jan 10, 2013)

AFAIK, they haven't taken effect yet.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

I hope they carefully evaluate the cancellation policy further before they make any changes to it.

This past summer, I had to cancel my trip from MSP to WAS three times on the day of departure because of OTP issues on the Builder. I didn't want to ride a bus for and eight-hour trip from MSP to CHI to make the connection to the Capitol. I ended up making the decision to drive from MSP to WAS because it was coming too close to the date that I had to be in DC.

A cursory look at their statistics might interpret these cancellations as an abuse to the cancellation policy and indicate a need to adjust the policy. However, it was clearly _their_ issue (which will not show in the data), and not customer abuse.


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## amamba (Jan 10, 2013)

Yeah, one of the things that Amtrak should implement, IMO, with their changes to the cancellation policy is a waiver policy. This is what airlines do when there are weather disruptions and other types of service disruptions.

If the train is cancelled or is running 8-10 hours late and you might miss a connection or you are provided with a bus option, one should be able to cancel and receive a full refund (points or $$$) if it is less than one week before departure.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 10, 2013)

A train has to be eight hours late or more to get a waiver? For the working class that's just nuts, never mind the lousy buses and broken connections. Not to mention that Amtrak may not admit anything is actually wrong until an couple hours before departure anyway, which means if the lines are tied up because you don't have status you could end up SOL regardless.


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## crescent2 (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm not liking all the restrictions. If the trip is significantly changed, I think a refund should be given if you cancel within a reasonable time after Amtrak makes the changes known to you, no matter what time it is. If they can't deliver what you bought, they should give a refund.


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## AlanB (Jan 10, 2013)

The current rule is that if a train is more than 2 hours late leaving your station, you can cancel without penalty. I've heard nothing that indicates that this rule will be changed, regardless of what they decide on the general policy for cancelling.


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## amamba (Jan 10, 2013)

Texas Sunset said:


> A train has to be eight hours late or more to get a waiver? For the working class that's just nuts, never mind the lousy buses and broken connections. Not to mention that Amtrak may not admit anything is actually wrong until an couple hours before departure anyway, which means if the lines are tied up because you don't have status you could end up SOL regardless.


I just used that as an example.

But there should also be more flexibility, like allowing people to cancel with no penalty two or three days before a trip if there is a problem on the line and its not clear that the train will run.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

The increase in Bedroom points requirements has already devalued the program for me. If they don't keep some flexibility with the cancellation policy, I may abandon the AGR program completely. I already have pulled back on my purchases with the credit card.


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## C&O RR (Jan 11, 2013)

I am planning a trip from Richmond Virginia to Seattle and return using points (120,000) if have to cancel before leaving Virginia, I am going to lose all 120,000 points? Would I be nuts to book this trip more than a week in advance since my crystal ball is broken. ( Yes, I know that unless I book it more that 2 months out I will never an all bedroom trip.)

Amtrak needs to remember that they are getting money from the purchases made on their credit card and the points being transferred into AGR. When companies create polices they often assume that there will be little change in the customer habits caused by the new polices. I am going to guess that there are several millions if not a billion of unused points sitting in people's accounts for which Amtrak has been paid. I have referred more than 10 people and I know that none of them have yet used any of their points for travel.

So should I take my 120,,000 AGR points and get $1,200 in AMC Theatres Gift Cards? At least I will be able to use them on any day that I or family members are not sick.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2013)

C&O RR said:


> I am planning a trip from Richmond Virginia to Seattle and return using points (120,000) if have to cancel before leaving Virginia, I am going to lose all 120,000 points? Would I be nuts to book this trip more than a week in advance since my crystal ball is broken. ( Yes, I know that unless I book it more that 2 months out I will never an all bedroom trip.)
> 
> Amtrak needs to remember that they are getting money from the purchases made on their credit card and the points being transferred into AGR. When companies create polices they often assume that there will be little change in the customer habits caused by the new polices. I am going to guess that there are several millions if not a billion of unused points sitting in people's accounts for which Amtrak has been paid. I have referred more than 10 people and I know that none of them have yet used any of their points for travel.
> 
> So should I take my 120,,000 AGR points and get $1,200 in AMC Theatres Gift Cards? At least I will be able to use them on any day that I or family members are not sick.



The current policy is that you can cancel all the way until date and time of departure for your itinerary.

Furthermore, if AGR decides to change the policy at all (which would not take place until March 1), they've already said that agents will have full discretion to waive any and all penalty for illness or other extenuating circumstances. I don't see why people insist on continuing to panic over something that isn't yet an issue. A person isn't injured by even the most draconian of policies until and unless they have a reason to cancel after a deadline. Since there is no such policy yet, and since you or your family member isn't projected to be sick on date of travel, it all sounds like speculation to me.

Remember that the airlines have much, much more restrictive rewards programs, with fees (AGR has none) and other penalties for even changing your mind about a reward trip after booking, much less deciding to cancel after the flight has taken off and your seat has gone empty.


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## amamba (Jan 11, 2013)

Anthony, I have only redeemed three LD sleeper awards. On 2 out of the three, I made changes less than two weeks before travel. In one of them, I cancelled entirely and ended up flying instead because time was of the essence. On the other occasion, I changed the trip and left on the NYP section of the LSL instead of the BOS section since the BOS section was bustituted.

It still isn't clear if my cancellation would have been allowed under the new system. I guess not, but it was an emergency for me. Show me an airline where I would lose 25K points for cancelling my trip 13 days prior to travel. Generally there is some sort of mechanism to preserve the point balance with either a redeposit fee or status, etc.

I still think the proposed policy - which yes, is on hold - of losing all points if one cancels less than two weeks prior to the trip is completely draconian.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 11, 2013)

The policy as it stands right now, today is fine. Cancel an AGR trip before your scheduled departure, and you all the points used for the award trip will be re-deposited back to the your AGR account with no fee. No-show, and you lose all the points. That’s more than fair.

However, AGR proposed a cancellation policy for sleeper award travel that would have been more restrictive than any airline policy. Sleeper travel cancelled less than 15 days prior to travel would have resulted in the loss of all points. That was, and is, totally unacceptable. To AGR’s credit, they postponed implementation of that policy until March 1. As of this date, there is no word if that policy, or a modification of that policy will take effect on March 1. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

Suggesting that agents will have the flexibility to deal with special circumstances is, with all due respect, unacceptable. I cannot plan travel that way. I cannot allow literally thousands of AGR points to be at the mercy of an agent trying to enforce yet more mysterious, unwritten AGR policies. AGR phone agents struggle to deal with clear-cut policies. I shudder to think of them trying to deal with this kind of subjective issue.

I don’t think anyone “projects” themselves or family members to get sick or injured, or for something else to happen that would require trip cancellation. However, prudent travel planning assumes the possibility that something like that could occur and ensures the financial risk is acceptable. Restricted airfares can be cancelled with value carried forward for a fee. Even the value of paid Amtrak travel is not lost with cancellations prior to travel. With my two primary airline programs, I know the score. Miles used for cancelled award travel can be re-deposited for a fee of $150. That is an acceptable risk for me. The proposed AGR policy that would result in losing all AGR points for cancelled sleeper travel is an unacceptable risk.

Since AGR posted their desire to implement a cancellation policy of some sort for sleeper travel, I am now proceeding with extreme caution. I don’t consider that “panicking.” AGR fired the warning shot, and I heard it loud and clear. Based on what AGR originally proposed, I am not booking any AGR award sleeper travel (which would also entail other travel arrangements) until AGR clarifies what is going to happen March 1. Once AGR clarifies what will be happening, I’ll react accordingly. However, if the policy that was originally proposed is enacted, then I’m done with AGR. I’ll burn off my points balance on Acela or NER trips, and walk away. Probably no great loss to Amtrak, but that’s how it will be for me.


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## Ryan (Jan 11, 2013)

I wouldn't hesitate to book. Much like when the award redemptions went up in points, the change was communicated in advance, and reservations made under the old values were honored, even if the travel was scheduled for after the change.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 11, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to book. Much like when the award redemptions went up in points, the change was communicated in advance, and reservations made under the old values were honored, even if the travel was scheduled for after the change.


However, that was not true when the new paid travel cancellation policy went into effect. That policy, which among other changes eliminated 100% refunds for cancelled sleeper travel, was applied to all existing reservations, even those made long before the change was announced. I anticipate that any changes to the policy for re-deposit of points for cancelled AGR travel will similarly be applied to all reservations.

I could be wrong, but given Amtrak's prior actions, I am assuming that an AGR sleeper reservation made today will be subject to any policies enacted on March 1, or whenever.


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## Ryan (Jan 11, 2013)

Given that they gave plenty of notice when they announced the change, then postponed the change due to the miserable feedback, I'd be utterly shocked if they came back in implemented it without notice.

You are correct that the new policy would have applied to existing reservations had the policy gone into effect:



> Program Update Regarding Redemption Travel Refund/ExchangesPosted on: 11/01/2012
> 
> Beginning January 1, 2013 our cancellation policy for redemption travel will change. Any new or existing redemption travel reservations must be canceled before departure to be eligible for exchange or refund of points. If the trip includes sleeping car accommodations, the reservation must be canceled at least 15 days prior to departure to be eligible for exchange or refund of points.


So, unless the policy is stealth implemented with no notice, AND you have travel booked in the next 15 days, you're not at risk.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 11, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Given that they gave plenty of notice when they announced the change, then postponed the change due to the miserable feedback, I'd be utterly shocked if they came back in implemented it without notice.
> 
> You are correct that the new policy would have applied to existing reservations had the policy gone into effect:
> 
> ...


You're correct as far as the Amtrak part of the trip is concerned, but if the trip also includes non-refundable air travel, then the change fees for those reservations are at risk if I have to cancel the Amtrak ride. My Amtrak LD trips are usually a mix of air and rail, so if I have to bail on the rail side, then any non-refundable air segments become a problem. I don't want to eat $150 change fees because Amtrak made a policy change I cannot tolerate.

Right now it is a non-issue. I have nothing being planned, and nothing planned to be planned. However, if I were to look at an Amtrak LD trip for later this year, I would wait to see what the final determination is for sleeper cancellations before booking anything. If Amtrak goes with the 15-day or lose your points plan, then we'll find something else to do.


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## crescent2 (Jan 11, 2013)

I do want to book an AGR trip later this year, and the proposed policy troubles me, too. Neither do I want to have to depend on the whims of an agent.

The reason many of us are expressing displeasure now, when it hasn't been implemented yet, is that it's often easier to prevent something than it is to change something back once it happens. So, some of us are squawking now, rather than after it's a done deal. I don't find that strange, or an example of panicking. Once it IS an issue, it's probably too late then. Just my thoughts.


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## benjibear (Jan 11, 2013)

I don't like that you would lose all your points if you cancel. My wife and I are saving up for a once in a lifetime trip. Heaven forbid were were to get sick or have a death in the family and you lose all your points. I am sure there are many here that book trips to reserve there space and then change there minds. Maybe something like a 10% pentalty if you just cancel but no pentatly if you rebook right away.


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## the_traveler (Jan 12, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Much like when the award redemptions went up in points


You do realize that the only LD redemptions that went up were for bedrooms. Roomettes and coach are the same. And I'm not including the special route, Regional and Acela increases?

And I also do not like the proposed changes with regards to the total loss of points. and as far as "the agents discretion", I'll just give one example and shut up.


CS->SWC via LAX


Most can not get it, even when offering to pay the overnight, but some get it with no problem.


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## C&O RR (Jan 15, 2013)

The following is in my AGR January statement:

Changes to our refund and redemption policies

As of January 1, our cancellation policy for redemption travel changed. Any new or existing redemption travel reservations must be canceled before departure to be eligible for exchange or refund of points.

Is this a change? Is this the policy for this year? Did they just feel the need to say something?

Or am I missing something? :wacko:


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## Anthony (Jan 15, 2013)

The 2013 sleeper redemption cancellation policy was rescinded and never took effect. This thread is now closed, and further discussion should be consolidated here.


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