# Shanghai



## reefgeek (Apr 13, 2011)

Just got a text from my wife, who's in China on business. She's on a HSR train going 219MPH. Going out to visit a sock factory, three hours each way. Why am I stuck in New Jersey??? Sometimes I get to take Amtrak to Richmond. FML. I Asked her to take some pictures of the engine, I will share if I can.


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## George Harris (Apr 13, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> Just got a text from my wife, who's in China on business. She's on a HSR train going 219MPH. Going out to visit a sock factory, three hours each way. Why am I stuck in New Jersey??? Sometimes I get to take Amtrak to Richmond. FML. I Asked her to take some pictures of the engine, I will share if I can.


No engine. These are EMU trainsets.


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## tp49 (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, no engine at all. I'll have pictures up soon once I get a spare few minutes.


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## jis (Apr 14, 2011)

George Harris said:


> reefgeek said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a text from my wife, who's in China on business. She's on a HSR train going 219MPH. Going out to visit a sock factory, three hours each way. Why am I stuck in New Jersey??? Sometimes I get to take Amtrak to Richmond. FML. I Asked her to take some pictures of the engine, I will share if I can.
> ...


Are these the Chinese version of the Siemens Valero?


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## reefgeek (Apr 14, 2011)

This is my wife we're talking about. If I told her to go take a picture of the trainset, she'd take a taxi to a toystore. 

Woman...you go!....take picture...front of train...


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## tp49 (Apr 14, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> This is my wife we're talking about. If I told her to go take a picture of the trainset, she'd take a taxi to a toystore.
> 
> Woman...you go!....take picture...front of train...


You should have her bring you back a China HSR train set. Available at Toys R Us here in Shanghai


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 14, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> Just got a text from my wife, who's in China on business. She's on a HSR train going 219MPH. Going out to visit a sock factory, three hours each way. Why am I stuck in New Jersey??? Sometimes I get to take Amtrak to Richmond. FML. I Asked her to take some pictures of the engine, I will share if I can.


Awesome!

Meanwhile here in America _all_ funding for high speed rail is being cut from the 2011 budget and 400 million is being _recalled _from the 2010 budget.


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## The Davy Crockett (Apr 14, 2011)

daxomni said:


> reefgeek said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a text from my wife, who's in China on business. She's on a HSR train going 219MPH. Going out to visit a sock factory, three hours each way. Why am I stuck in New Jersey??? Sometimes I get to take Amtrak to Richmond. FML. I Asked her to take some pictures of the engine, I will share if I can.
> ...


As if we needed more proof that the elephant has been replaced by the ostrich... :wacko: :blink: :angry2:


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## tp49 (Apr 15, 2011)

Reading through my copy of Shanghai Daily this morning I came across this story whereby they are slowing down the HSR.



> Bullet trains to be slowed down
> CHINA is putting the brakes on its bullet trains following complaints that the system is dangerously fast and too expensive.
> 
> The fastest routes will be cut from 350kph to 300kph as of July 1, Railway Minister Sheng Guangzu told the People's Daily.


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## reefgeek (Apr 15, 2011)

tp49 said:


> Reading through my copy of Shanghai Daily this morning I came across this story whereby they are slowing down the HSR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So at 300kph, it will no longer be dangerously fast, just fast? 14.3% less dangerous? Too funny.


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## DET63 (Apr 20, 2011)

I would assume there may be issues with signaling, braking, wear-and-tear, etc., that they believe can be alleviated by running the trains at slower speeds.


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## jis (Apr 20, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> tp49 said:
> 
> 
> > Reading through my copy of Shanghai Daily this morning I came across this story whereby they are slowing down the HSR.
> ...


They are just acknowledging the fact that they picked up stuff from Siemens and others that are designed and validated currently for 300-320kph and without adequate testing and validation launched them at 350kph. There was considerable discussion of the cavalier attitude with which they went about it. Well, the over-reaching minister has been dethroned and a more level headed guy has come in and decided to proceed more prudently.

It is another related matter that they have been discovering some areas where construction has been substandard, causing things to - well not be the way they need to be - for operating near the edge of viability. In the face of those track maintenance is proving to be way more expensive than they had imagined, is one thing that I have been hearing.

I think eventually they will do fine at reasonable speeds, which are still going to be way faster than anything we will have in 5 years at the rate we are going.


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## reefgeek (Apr 20, 2011)

jis said:


> reefgeek said:
> 
> 
> > tp49 said:
> ...


Thanks, that does make a great deal of sense, and fits with the Chinese model.


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## George Harris (Apr 20, 2011)

To answer a few questions:

The trainsets appear to be based on the Shinkansen in a number of ways. The Chinese way in general is to take a look at all types, reverse engineer them and try to develop a system that incorporates the best or cheapest of all. Therefore, the origin of the mechanics of these trainsets I would have no idea. Both the Japanese and German systems operate in a regime of very precise regular maintenance, an unknown concept in China.

There is also a tendency for the promoters of these various trainsets (particularly the European ones) to promise more than they can deliver. However, if built properly 350 km/h should not have been a problem. The European sets supposedly have done it regularly, and as far as the Shinkansen trainsets, I can speak from experience that at 300 km/h the trainsets used in Taiwan did not feel like they were even working hard.

The aerodnamic resistance, which is essentially the V^2 term in the train resistance formula becomes quite significant as speed goes upbecoming over 90% of the total rolling resistance at the speeds involved, so the train resistance, and therefore the additional energy consumption from a 17% increase in speed, 300 km/h to 350 km/h, results in about a 35% increase in steady state power consumption, and that is neglecting the additional energy consumed in the acceleration to get there.

The concrete based trackform used appears to be exactly or a near copy of the German Rheda system. That system is near non-adjustable, so any subgrade settlement or structure movement beyond near zero would result in the need for slow orders or rebuilding of the track.


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