# 2 Parlour Cars Out of Service



## rtabern (Jul 3, 2012)

My fiancee and I took the Coast Starlight from OKJ to LAX on July 1st... and our train was without a Pacific Parlour Car. It was a kick to the stomach because the only reason we were riding the Coast Starlight and going down to LAX and flying home from there vs. SFO was the Parlour Car.

Anyway, the train supervisor was aboard and informed that two of the Parlour Cars would be out of service for an extended period of time because there were issues with the air conditioning and wheels... and Amtrak was trying to find some parts for this.

We had Cross Country Cafe #37000 instead.

I wasn't too thrilled and just spent the trip in our roomette... ate in the diner... and avoided spending anytime in #37000 except to walk through it.

What was irritating to me was the crew kept calling #37000 the "parlour car". A parlor (parlour) car is something like the Milwaukee Road's Cedar Rapids... and while a Pacific Parlour Car isn't really a parlor car... the #37000 is about as far from one as you can get.

Our sleeping car attendant, who wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, actually got into a brief argument with me after we got aboard her car -- she insisted that the #37000 was much "better" than the Pacific Parlour Cars they normally have on the train because it was "more modern". I told her it wasn't as nice. She's like "How do you know??" -- and I was like -- I was in Beech Grove in October 2006 when they were putting the tables together on the car. She was like -- "OH".

So heads up on the lack of PPC's on atleast one or two sets of #11 and #14 in the coming weeks!!


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## guest (Jul 3, 2012)

rtabern said:


> My fiancee and I took the Coast Starlight from OKJ to LAX on July 1st... and our train was without a Pacific Parlour Car. It was a kick to the stomach because the only reason we were riding the Coast Starlight and going down to LAX and flying home from there vs. SFO was the Parlour Car.
> 
> Anyway, the train supervisor was aboard and informed that two of the Parlour Cars would be out of service for an extended period of time because there were issues with the air conditioning and wheels... and Amtrak was trying to find some parts for this.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say this, but from your own telling of the story, you come off a bit rude to the SCA. She was probably just trying to be nice and have you appreciate the fact that you still had a private lounge car for first-class passengers.


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## the_traveler (Jul 3, 2012)

I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!


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## AlanB (Jul 3, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!


While true; a CCC is still better than having NO replacement car for the PPC. A situation that I encountered the very first time I ever rode the Starlight. Our PPC consisted of our sleeping car attendant setting up some extra snacks & refreshments in the A Bedroom.


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## rtabern (Jul 4, 2012)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!
> ...


My point was... I think that the sleeping car attendants should be told to applogize to customers if there is no Parlour Car on the train... not try and lie and say the Cross Country Cafe cars are an equal, if not BETTER, substitue... especially since the Parlour Car was the reason why we were taking the train in the first place.

I ride Amtrak a lot and know s*** happens. I get it. I was upset there was no PPC, but it was 10 times worse the crew acted like the CCCs are better than the special cars... and kept calling the simplified diners "parlour cars"!! It's an insult to true parlour cars like the Cedar Rapids and other historic rail cars.

Just applogize... tell those who are real upset to call customer relations and get a $25 or $50 voucher... or whatever they offer... and let it go.

The sad thing was... probably 90 percent of the passenger didnt even know what they were missing out on without the car on the train.

Even though I have rode 400,000+ miles, if you know me in person, I dont come across as a "know it all railfan". I promise you. BUT, when a dumb-as-a-doorknob SCA who spent most of the train sitting in the CCC chatting it up with the other attendants asks me "how do you know #37000 isn't as good a a CCC"... I am not going to stand down either... esp when I saw the car being built during 2 visits to Beech Grove in 2006.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 4, 2012)

Are they still holding a reserve PPC in LA or are all sets now on the rails?


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## rtabern (Jul 4, 2012)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Are they still holding a reserve PPC in LA or are all sets now on the rails?


Nope... reserve unit is gone... per the train manager who was on board. When we got close to LAX, I asked him about the reserve unit and if there was any way I could show my fiancee the interior of the reserve PPC so she could see what I talking about... and he said they are not holding it in LA because 2 cars are down right now. A trip on the Surfliner (pass by the yards and no PPC) proved that.


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## amtrakwolverine (Jul 4, 2012)

Does amtrak try and get used or refurbished parts for the PPC or Are the parts custom made.


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## jphjaxfl (Jul 4, 2012)

Those ex Santa Fe El Capitain Lounge Cars are 55 years old now so I am sure the parts are hard to find so they probably have to make new parts. Expensive from Amtrak's perspective. I remember riding the El Capitain when it was brand new in 1958. We rode the Peoria Rocket to Chicago and took the El Capitain back to North Chillicothe. The train ran 5 min behind the Super Chief. The high level loung and dining car were unique at the time.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 4, 2012)

rtabern said:


> .... SCA who spent most of the train sitting in the CCC chatting it up with the other attendants .... ....Anyway, the train supervisor was aboard and informed that....



So your SCA was slacking off, and there was a train manger on board?

Nice.


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## rogerVarland (Jul 4, 2012)

Ugh !!!!!!!! I'm booked on 14 next Friday, the 13th. Anyone able to predict which days will have a PPC?


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## Joel (Jul 4, 2012)

That's really sad news. I've always wanted to ride a PPC. When I travelled on the CS in 2006 I did it in coach, and never knew about the existance of that nice car. Is there another route which still has those cars available?


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 4, 2012)

Bad news Rob!  When I was on #14 in the PPC a couple of years ago some Bangers in SLO Shot! one of the Windows out on the PPC and the LSA told us that it would have to Custom made and would cost like $8,000 since there were no more parts for these Old Beauties!  Im sure Guest Relations and AGR will get a call from you, hope the Bad Ordered Cars are serviced quickly and everyone riding gets a chance to experience these Jewels! :wub: The CCC Cars are the most useless ones Amtrak has with the possible exception of the Diner Lites on the Cardinal!!


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## jacorbett70 (Jul 4, 2012)

If the CCC were really better than the PPC, it would be the regular equipment with the PPC serving as the emergency backup when the CCC is pulled for repair or maintenance.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jul 4, 2012)

I really wish they'd substitute an SSL when the PPCs aren't available. All I care about are comfy seats facing a big window, and I have a feeling that many passengers feel the same way. I wish they'd add an extra SSL as a "First Class Lounge" to each of the major scenic western trains, that would be amazing.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 4, 2012)

In my experiences, the Capitol Limited could have used another Sightseer Lounge as well!


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## AlanB (Jul 4, 2012)

jimhudson said:


> Im sure Guest Relations and AGR will get a call from you, hope the Bad Ordered Cars are serviced quickly and everyone riding gets a chance to experience these Jewels! :wub:


My understanding is that the PPC is not guaranteed to run and therefore Customer Service has been instructed not to hand out vouchers anymore to those who call in disappointment that they didn't get the PPC.

It's an amenity designed to enhance your experience on the trip. But if it's not there, Amtrak still did what you paid them to do, get you from point A to point B.



jimhudson said:


> The CCC Cars are the most useless ones Amtrak has with the possible exception of the Diner Lites on the Cardinal!!


I've got to disagree with you a bit here Jim. While I'll agree that they're not good replacements for a full dining car; the CCC did indeed have some good logic behind it. While it doesn't work for most routes, the CCC actually is ideal for a run like the City of New Orleans where the demand for a dining car isn't as strong as on most other LD runs.

And the Diner-Lite car, while not appropriate for the Cardinal, actually could serve a very valuable role for Amtrak if Amtrak were to ever get Viewliner Cafe cars. That role would be to provide a more substantial choice to riders than a straight cafe car on runs like the Palmetto, Carolinian, Maple Leaf, Adirondack, and the Pennsylvanian. Those long haul day trains should run with both a cafe and a Diner-Lite to provide more choices for those riding such a long distance.


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## AlanB (Jul 4, 2012)

D.P. Roberts said:


> I really wish they'd substitute an SSL when the PPCs aren't available. All I care about are comfy seats facing a big window, and I have a feeling that many passengers feel the same way.


While I understand your logic & reasoning, and don't disagree with it, the reason that CCC's is kept on standby for the PPC's is that the CCC can still provide meal service. The Sightseer Lounge cannot do that.

And Amtrak needs that to ease the load on the dining car; not to mention that the revenue credited to the PPC program from those meals being served is what helps to keep those cars in service. Take away that revenue and the PPC's are finished. Amtrak won't run them at all without that extra revenue helping to justify the huge costs to run those cars.



D.P. Roberts said:


> I wish they'd add an extra SSL as a "First Class Lounge" to each of the major scenic western trains, that would be amazing.


Sadly, Amtrak simply doesn't have enough cars to do that.

However, if ridership continues to grow and assuming that Amtrak can find funding for new Superliner cars, it is something that Amtrak should consider. Especially since they could do much like they do on the Auto Train, and leave one half of the car tables. Those tables could then be utilized as overflow seating for the dining car, allowing Amtrak to feed more people and add an extra sleeper or two to each train's consist and therefore carry more passengers.


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## saxman (Jul 4, 2012)

I took my dad on the Coast Starlight back in 2006 and there was no PPC either. A real bummer for both of us. They didn't even have a replacement car for it. Our wine tasting was just held in the dining car then. To make matters worse we arrived into LAX about 12 hours late, so we totally missed the ocean because of that. I guess it really was the Coast *Starlight* because we travelled the coast in darkness.

I've been on the Coast Starlight several times since then, and each time it had a PPC, so I got lucky. Now I'm planning on riding the Starlight from LAX to OKJ in a couple weeks and hope my trend continues.


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## Donctor (Jul 4, 2012)

rtabern said:


> The sad thing was... probably 90 percent of the passenger didnt even know what they were missing out on without the car on the train.


That seems like a good thing.


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## the_traveler (Jul 4, 2012)

Joel said:


> 1341412439[/url]' post='377764']That's really sad news. I've always wanted to ride a PPC. When I travelled on the CS in 2006 I did it in coach, and never knew about the existance of that nice car. Is there another route which still has those cars available?


No there is not.



The PPC is a 1950's era car, and Amtrak only had a total of 5 for use on the Coast Starlight only!


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## Rail Freak (Jul 4, 2012)

Yeah, I'm taking my brother on his 1st train in August on the #11, hope they're fixed by then!!! I've been telling him about the PPC for 4 years now! hboy:


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## amtrakwolverine (Jul 4, 2012)

If amtrak ever gets enough funds to order new superliners they could always build replicas of the PPCs.


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## yarrow (Jul 4, 2012)

AlanB said:


> [
> 
> My understanding is that the PPC is not guaranteed to run and therefore Customer Service has been instructed not to hand out vouchers anymore to those who call in disappointment that they didn't get the PPC.
> 
> It's an amenity designed to enhance your experience on the trip. But if it's not there, Amtrak still did what you paid them to do, get you from point A to point B.


i dunno alan, in the system timetable the ppc is listed as one of the services offered on the cs. when you pay sleeper fare it's not just to go from point a to point b but to go there in a certain style. my understanding was that a portion of your fare is for the ppc as it no longer is supposed to pay for itself out of its revenues. with via cutting frequency on the canadian maybe amtrak can get a couple spare park cars :giggle:


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## PaulM (Jul 4, 2012)

rtabern said:


> Even though I have rode 400,000+ miles, if you know me in person, I dont come across as a "know it all railfan". I promise you. BUT, when a dumb-as-a-doorknob SCA who spent most of the train sitting in the CCC chatting it up with the other attendants asks me "how do you know #37000 isn't as good a a CCC"... I am not going to stand down either... esp when I saw the car being built during 2 visits to Beech Grove in 2006.


No need to apologize. It's amazing the random words that come out of some Amtrak personnel mouths.

Strangely, the only time customer relations gave me the bum's rush was when I complained about purchasing sleeping car space for a day trip and we got a CCC. At least the on-board staff didn't try to insult our intelligence.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 4, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!


Same with how old United DC-8s were much more comfortable than today's United A320s. Those planes had just as much pitch as Amtrak's Amfleet Is, even in Coach! Though the seats were narrower.


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## RampWidget (Jul 4, 2012)

AlanB said:


> D.P. Roberts said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish they'd substitute an SSL when the PPCs aren't available. All I care about are comfy seats facing a big window, and I have a feeling that many passengers feel the same way.
> ...


I agree. We had a SSL substituting for the PPC on our trip on #14 a couple of months ago. While we were disappointed, we were happy to have the SSL instead of a CCC. The crew still referred to it as "Parlour Car" and while meals were available, they were brought in from the regular diner. It is still quite nice to have a SSL serving as a _de facto_ first class lounge, in our experience. Maybe the next Super order would include some type of upgraded lounge car for this type use.


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## RampWidget (Jul 4, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!
> ...


That's a fond memory. I loved travelling on DC-8s, and watching them, particularly the "stretched" version. They weren't much fun to work in down below, though, with that l-o-n-g fuselage making loading a challenge.


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## AutoTrDvr (Jul 4, 2012)

Just curious... Does anyone have any pictures (either inside or out) of these PPC cars? I've never seen one. I have seen SSLs (Superliner SSLs), and the lounges in the old Heritage cars. I'm curious as to what makes these PPCs different, and why it's such a "bummer" when they're substituted (or missing)... :huh:


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## Texan Eagle (Jul 4, 2012)

AutoTrDvr said:


> Just curious... Does anyone have any pictures (either inside or out) of these PPC cars? I've never seen one. I have seen SSLs (Superliner SSLs), and the lounges in the old Heritage cars. I'm curious as to what makes these PPCs different, and why it's such a "bummer" when they're substituted (or missing)... :huh:


http://www.pacificparlourcar.com/

Lots More photos. Google is our friend


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 4, 2012)

I've done 3 runs on the _*Starlight*_ and have been able to enjoy a PPC all 3 time. I'm set for another turn in about a month and based on the current situation, it looks like a 25% chance of coming up with the short straw each way. But if I do and get a CCC instead, I'll still make use of it realizing that while the PPC is a very nice car, what helps make it nice are good fellow passengers and a good Attendant.

I'm guessing Amtrak has moved a couple extra CCCs out of Chicago and to LAX/SEA to make sure plenty are on hand.


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## amamba (Jul 4, 2012)

AutoTrDvr said:


> Just curious... Does anyone have any pictures (either inside or out) of these PPC cars? I've never seen one. I have seen SSLs (Superliner SSLs), and the lounges in the old Heritage cars. I'm curious as to what makes these PPCs different, and why it's such a "bummer" when they're substituted (or missing)... :huh:


Here are two pictures I took on my last trip:


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## guest (Jul 4, 2012)

amamba said:


> AutoTrDvr said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious... Does anyone have any pictures (either inside or out) of these PPC cars? I've never seen one. I have seen SSLs (Superliner SSLs), and the lounges in the old Heritage cars. I'm curious as to what makes these PPCs different, and why it's such a "bummer" when they're substituted (or missing)... :huh:
> ...


Wow that purple chair really looks like something to get all worked over for! :wacko:


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## NorthEncantoGirl (Jul 4, 2012)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I've done 3 runs on the _*Starlight*_ and have been able to enjoy a PPC all 3 time. I'm set for another turn in about a month and based on the current situation, it looks like a 25% chance of coming up with the short straw each way. But if I do and get a CCC instead, I'll still make use of it realizing that while the PPC is a very nice car, what helps make it nice are good fellow passengers and a good Attendant.
> 
> I'm guessing Amtrak has moved a couple extra CCCs out of Chicago and to LAX/SEA to make sure plenty are on hand.


I'll be on the CS next month too, and I couldn't agree more with you. While I would like to actually see a PPC, it won't make or break my trip.


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## AutoTrDvr (Jul 4, 2012)

Texan Eagle said:


> AutoTrDvr said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious... Does anyone have any pictures (either inside or out) of these PPC cars? I've never seen one. I have seen SSLs (Superliner SSLs), and the lounges in the old Heritage cars. I'm curious as to what makes these PPCs different, and why it's such a "bummer" when they're substituted (or missing)... :huh:
> ...


Yes, as long as we know what we're searching for...  Thanks for pointing it out!

So... it would seem the best features (for me at least) would be the swivel seats and the extra windows. The other things can be replicated with SSLs and diner cars. The theater is nice, but could be covered by a SSL (they show movies in the SSL on the AT). Besides, I'd probably be watching DVDs in my room with headphones.

I recall that NJ Transit had a Comet I car that had these swivel type seats in one half of it. They made the mistake of putting it on my train one evening. I got to it behind several people and exclaimed, "Get a load of these!" Within 2 seconds, it was like a game of "Musical chairs!" I found the first one I could get to (it was a full, single, "Amtrak like" reclining coach seat that did swivel), and plopped down, and literally didn't move out of it until my stop 1hr 15min later. Especially since there were 15 other people staring me down like vultures (it was a full train of 11 std. Comet I/II cars) waiting to pounce on it if I even flinched. h34r: I didn't. People were so shocked to see it, I guess.

Interesting that the PPCs are almost the same height as the Superliners themselves.

Anyway, thanks. At least I know what you're talking about...


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## zephyr17 (Jul 4, 2012)

AutoTrDvr said:


> Interesting that the PPCs are almost the same height as the Superliners themselves.


There is a reason for that. The Santa Fe Hi-Levels, of which the lounge cars which they made into the PPCs are the last remaining on the Amtrak roster, were the inspiration for the Superliners. The Superliners were designed so they could interoperate with Hi-Levels and through the 80s and early 90s there were many Hi-Level coaches in service on Superliner trains. Before the Superliner II order when Amtrak bought the trans-dorms, the only transition cars there were were Hi-Levels. The Hi-Level diners were rebuilt into diner-lounges that ran on the Desert Wind.


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## Mackensen (Jul 4, 2012)

RampWidget said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > D.P. Roberts said:
> ...


The latest fleet strategy includes 12 parlor cars, which suggests replacement for the Coast Starlight plus one more train. Smart money was on the Empire Builder.

Also, whomever was knocking the purple chairs, they swivel and they're actually quite comfortable.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 4, 2012)

The CS without a PPC is like a Banana Split without the Banana!!!! :giggle:


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## AlanB (Jul 4, 2012)

AutoTrDvr said:


> The other things can be replicated with SSLs and diner cars. The theater is nice, but could be covered by a SSL (they show movies in the SSL on the AT).


The Auto Train is the only train that still shows movies in the lounge car. And most of the lounge cars on the Auto Train are NOT Sightseer Lounges. There are 1, maybe 2, Sightseer Lounges that were assigned to the Auto Train pool about 7 or 8 years ago, which were specially modified for use on the AT including the smoker's room downstairs. But those SSL's are the backup cars to the normal AT lounge cars, which are converted dining cars.

In all my trips on the AT, I think that I've hit a SSL in the consist maybe twice. Most times, one gets the regular AT lounge cars.

In all other SSL's the VCR is long gone and the TV's have either been removed or boarded over.


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## johnny.menhennet (Jul 5, 2012)

rogerVarland said:


> Ugh !!!!!!!! I'm booked on 14 next Friday, the 13th. Anyone able to predict which days will have a PPC?


It's Friday the 13th! I'd say that your luck dictates a lack of a PPC!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 5, 2012)

RampWidget said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


You mean the Super 60s? One of my favourite planes!


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## johnny.menhennet (Jul 5, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> RampWidget said:
> 
> 
> > Swadian Hardcore said:
> ...


Swadian, are you like British or something? That's fine and cool and all, but your spelling of favorite makes me wonder?


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## leemell (Jul 5, 2012)

AlanB said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Im sure Guest Relations and AGR will get a call from you, hope the Bad Ordered Cars are serviced quickly and everyone riding gets a chance to experience these Jewels! :wub:
> ...


That is not a really new policy. As long ago as about 2004, we made a trip on 11 from Seattle to LA without a PPC, just a Dining Car. We were also about 5 hours late. Customer Service only gave us some compensation for the lateness and nothing for the lack of a PPC. They said very explicitly that the PPC was not guaranteed and could not be compensated.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 5, 2012)

If you want to be guaranteed of having a PPC, just pack this in your carry-on -

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9780

 :lol:


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## Nathanael (Jul 5, 2012)

D.P. Roberts said:


> I really wish they'd substitute an SSL when the PPCs aren't available. All I care about are comfy seats facing a big window, and I have a feeling that many passengers feel the same way. I wish they'd add an extra SSL as a "First Class Lounge" to each of the major scenic western trains, that would be amazing.


They did that on two trips I made in 2011 (I think it was 2011, might have been 2010); two PPCs were bad-ordered at the time and the luck of the draw meant that I was on the train without the PPC both ways. But they substituted Sightseer Lounges both times.

Is Amtrak running short on SSLs *too*, or is Amtrak using the CCC instead of the SSL deliberately? If Amtrak is also starting to have problems finding enough SSLs, then the equipment shortage is getting severe.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 5, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> D.P. Roberts said:
> 
> 
> > I really wish they'd substitute an SSL when the PPCs aren't available. All I care about are comfy seats facing a big window, and I have a feeling that many passengers feel the same way. I wish they'd add an extra SSL as a "First Class Lounge" to each of the major scenic western trains, that would be amazing.
> ...


Amtrak is short on Sightseer Lounges but very long on CCC; every time I come and go from Chicago there is always a long string of CCCs in the yard outside Union Station.


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## Donctor (Jul 5, 2012)

AlanB said:


> AutoTrDvr said:
> 
> 
> > The other things can be replicated with SSLs and diner cars. The theater is nice, but could be covered by a SSL (they show movies in the SSL on the AT).
> ...


Or in the unlocked closet in the downstairs bathroom.


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## printman2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

I am on #11(4) right now. We have a CCC instead of a Parlour car. #14(5) just passed us and had a PPC.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 5, 2012)

printman2000 said:


> I am on #11(4) right now. We have a CCC instead of a Parlour car. #14(5) just passed us and had a PPC.


Are they making life tolerable in the CCC?


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 5, 2012)

The SSL is nothing like a PPC in my view, but at least it was intended to serve a somewhat similar purpose. If you replaced the cheap looking McDonald's style plastic furniture interior and classed it up a bit the SSL probably wouldn't be half bad. The CCC, well, let's just say that the CCC is already a letdown when it replaces a dining car. When it replaces a PPC it's boarding on an overt insult. The layout is all wrong. It's bad for the crew and bad for the passengers. The staff is trying to avoid bumping into each other at the built-in bottleneck while the passengers are having to crane their necks around so they can see what they came for. Who in their right mind would build a passenger rail car that needlessly pinches the traffic flow and includes furniture that focuses your gaze toward the interior of the car? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.


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## printman2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

As far as services go, they are exactly the same as in a PPC. While the booth seating may not be as comfortable as the swivel chairs, I think the viewing is just as good if not better. Those swivel chairs sit low so views down are not as good.

I hoped for a PPC, but the CCC is not bad. Nice to have a sleeper lounge so close to the sleepers.


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## printman2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

The CCC on our train has all booths on the long end. It does not have those weird in facing 3 person booths. It does have two of them on the short end, though.


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## dart330 (Jul 5, 2012)

If they really have so many CCCs to spare, deploy them as first class lounges on the other LD trains (or at least one). Sure they are junk compared to the PPC and the SSL, but having another lounge is really nice and doubles your chance of being able to find a seat or table. No need to just let them sit idle in CHI.


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## AlanB (Jul 5, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> Is Amtrak running short on SSLs *too*, or is Amtrak using the CCC instead of the SSL deliberately? If Amtrak is also starting to have problems finding enough SSLs, then the equipment shortage is getting severe.


Amtrak's not really short on Sightseer Lounges.

They're using the CCC as I noted before, because it can still fullfill the role of providing meals, like the PPC. A SSL has no warming tables or anything beyond normal cafe facilities, and therefore it cannot fulfill the meal role of the PPC. Additionally, there is an area upstairs in the CCC from which the LSA can serve drinks. Again the SSL doesn't really offer such a luxury.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 5, 2012)

dart330 said:


> If they really have so many CCCs to spare, deploy them as first class lounges on the other LD trains (or at least one). Sure they are junk compared to the PPC and the SSL, but having another lounge is really nice and doubles your chance of being able to find a seat or table. No need to just let them sit idle in CHI.


^ Yes, please, +1.


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## tp49 (Jul 5, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> > Is Amtrak running short on SSLs *too*, or is Amtrak using the CCC instead of the SSL deliberately? If Amtrak is also starting to have problems finding enough SSLs, then the equipment shortage is getting severe.
> ...


Then why not refit either a couple of SSL's or CCC's with the areas needed to make them comparable to PPC's. Might make sense considering the age of the PPC's and the availability (or lack thereof) of spare parts.


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## roomette (Jul 5, 2012)

tp49 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Nathanael said:
> ...


That's a great idea. They could be made very sexy!


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## AlanB (Jul 6, 2012)

tp49 said:


> Then why not refit either a couple of SSL's or CCC's with the areas needed to make them comparable to PPC's. Might make sense considering the age of the PPC's and the availability (or lack thereof) of spare parts.


Simply because Amtrak doesn't really have the money and they don't want to make more unique cars.

And while they've got a few extra CCC's, I'm not sure if they've got that many extras anyhow to outfit 6 or 7 with the types of chairs needed to create a PPC. And there would be no way to put in a theatre downstairs, without removing the kitchen.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 6, 2012)

From what I have seen of the numerous CCC's I have been in, there is no warming or steam table on the Upper Level; so I'm guessing during meals the poor attendant is having to run up and down the stairs to deliver food. At least the special menu is till being offered although it looks like no Duck or Lamb this Summer :angry2:


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## printman2000 (Jul 6, 2012)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> From what I have seen of the numerous CCC's I have been in, there is no warming or steam table on the Upper Level; so I'm guessing during meals the poor attendant is having to run up and down the stairs to deliver food. At least the special menu is till being offered although it looks like no Duck or Lamb this Summer :angry2:


I did not look closely, but I did see two convection ovens upstairs.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 7, 2012)

johnny.menhennet said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > You mean the Super 60s? One of my favourite planes!
> ...


  

Perhaps he's Canadian because that's the way I would spell favourite too......along with colour, harbour and yes....."Parlour" Car.....which is the spelling Amtrak uses.......not the American "Parlor" Car.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 14, 2012)

Any news on the PPC's? My brother & I will be on the #11 on Aug 6th. This is his 1st train trip & it sure would be a bummer without one!!!


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## MadManMoon (Jul 14, 2012)

Rail Freak said:


> Any news on the PPC's? My brother & I will be on the #11 on Aug 6th. This is his 1st train trip & it sure would be a bummer without one!!!


I can tell you that #14(9) and #11(11) (same equipment) had a Pacific Parlour Car. May be too far out to help you yet, but it's another data point!


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## The Chief (Jul 14, 2012)

Mackensen said:


> The latest fleet strategy includes 12 parlor cars, which suggests replacement for the Coast Starlight plus one more train.





NS VIA Fan said:


> Perhaps he's Canadian because that's the way I would spell favourite too......along with colour, harbour and yes....."Parlour" Car.....which is the spelling Amtrak uses.......not the American "Parlor" Car.


*Mac* thanks for reminding us on the "Implementation of a program to acquire 508 bi-level cars to replace the existing *Surfliner*, *Superliner* and _*Parlor*_ car fleets."

Of course I noticed the Amtrak Fleet Strategy doc used the "Parlor" spelling, rather than the exterior PPC nameplate style "_Parlour_" spelling.

Let's hope the six Parlor cars will be PPC substitutes, as similar to the originals as possible, including the swivel chairs, which are closer to a plum / thistle than purple.* That's a lot to ask from the company that gave us the *CCC*,,,



OlympianHiawatha said:


> Amtrak is short on Sightseer Lounges but very long on CCC; every time I come and go from Chicago there is always a long string of CCCs in the yard outside Union Station.


What s surprise.

- -

* The chair color is quite similar to the "*second quote*" display used in this* AAU *forum,,,


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## AlanB (Jul 14, 2012)

The Chief said:


> Let's hope the six Parlor cars will be PPC substitutes, as similar to the originals as possible, including the swivel chairs, which are closer to a plum / thistle than purple.* That's a lot to ask from the company that gave us the *CCC*,,,


While the CCC may not have been the best idea ever, I do think it important to remember that Amtrak was sort of forced into giving us that car. It was Congress and they're typical micro-management that caused Amtrak to seek out solutions to the costs of food service, which is what led to the CCC.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 14, 2012)

AlanB said:


> The Chief said:
> 
> 
> > Let's hope the six Parlor cars will be PPC substitutes, as similar to the originals as possible, including the swivel chairs, which are closer to a plum / thistle than purple.* That's a lot to ask from the company that gave us the *CCC*,,,
> ...


Is there a law or directive from congress that says "The car must include an inexplicable choke point in the middle and some of the bench seating must face inward?" Most of the problems I have with the CCC are unlikely to have come from Congress, although I've certainly been proven wrong before. I think whatever favorable comments the CCC has received probably come from the simple reality that the CCC is the first "new" car we've seen on a Western trains in ages. Everything else is decades old and looks every minute of it.


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## AlanB (Jul 15, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The Chief said:
> ...


No law at all. And the "choke" point isn't inexplicable. It was done to separate the dining car side from the cafe car side. As well as to give the cafe attendant a bit more space, without expanding the area into the space needed by the dining car side.

Besides, there isn't a dining car in the fleet that doesn't have a choke point. On a Superliner Dining car, basically every employee must stop doing anything every time people try to walk through the prep area. Ride a single level diner and you have that narrow, 1 person only hall all along the kitchen, complete with 2 90 degree turns.

As for the seats facing inward, that's not something that Amtrak came up with either. I just rode in a dome car on the Saratoga & North Creek RR two weekends ago. The dome car had at least 4 or 5 tables set up in a similar fashion. I'm not entirely sure why they do that, although one thought is that it may help to avoid the odd man out that happens when you have a party of 3 in a traditional booth.

I personally don't like it or agree with the idea of that type of seating, but it's not something that Amtrak dreamed up all on its own. And I believe that I heard recently that Amtrak is actually working to remove those booths and replace them with the traditional 4 people booths.


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## johnny.menhennet (Jul 15, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


The one thing I didn't get most about the CCC or I guess the consists of the TE and CONO, and I guess the CL when it had it. The CCC was supposed to be 2-in-1, where they would have the cafe and diner together. However, all of the trains that have a CCC have never used the cafe AFAIK, and the lounge downstairs of the SSL is staffed. I know that it would be a mistake to take the SSL away, but from someone who didn't know about the value of the SSL and was looking from a purely managerial standpoint, probably someone who has never ridden an LD, would say that it is inefficient. There are essentially two cafes, one not being used, and less overall capacity in the diner, meaning less coach pax will have the ability to pay. It has never made sense to me. When Amtrak ordered these, did they intend on not having an SSL or not staffing the bottom of it? I know it was meant to simplify prep downstairs but if prep time is the only thing you're worried about and you have no intention of using the cafe part, I don't understand the point of reduced diner seating.


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## AlanB (Jul 15, 2012)

johnny.menhennet said:


> The one thing I didn't get most about the CCC or I guess the consists of the TE and CONO, and I guess the CL when it had it. The CCC was supposed to be 2-in-1, where they would have the cafe and diner together. However, all of the trains that have a CCC have never used the cafe AFAIK, and the lounge downstairs of the SSL is staffed. I know that it would be a mistake to take the SSL away, but from someone who didn't know about the value of the SSL and was looking from a purely managerial standpoint, probably someone who has never ridden an LD, would say that it is inefficient. There are essentially two cafes, one not being used, and less overall capacity in the diner, meaning less coach pax will have the ability to pay. It has never made sense to me. When Amtrak ordered these, did they intend on not having an SSL or not staffing the bottom of it? I know it was meant to simplify prep downstairs but if prep time is the only thing you're worried about and you have no intention of using the cafe part, I don't understand the point of reduced diner seating.


Johnny,

The idea was that the Sightseer Lounge would not be in the consist. And in fact the original CCC/SDS plans called for the conversion of the SSL's into CCC's once Amtrak was done converting the dining cars over. Thankfully that plan got stopped before it came to fruition.

But there was a period of time on the City where there was no SSL. And then for a brief period, they returned the SSL, but continued to use the cafe in the CCC leaving the downstairs in the SSL un-staffed, IIRC. Then they closed down the cafe in the CCC and went back to running it out of the SSL.

And the point of reduced dining car seating was that allowed them to reduce the staff and cut expenses, meeting the stupid Congressional mandate.


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## Donctor (Jul 15, 2012)

johnny.menhennet said:


> The one thing I didn't get most about the CCC or I guess the consists of the TE and CONO, and I guess the CL when it had it. The CCC was supposed to be 2-in-1, where they would have the cafe and diner together. However, all of the trains that have a CCC have never used the cafe AFAIK, and the lounge downstairs of the SSL is staffed. I know that it would be a mistake to take the SSL away, but from someone who didn't know about the value of the SSL and was looking from a purely managerial standpoint, probably someone who has never ridden an LD, would say that it is inefficient. There are essentially two cafes, one not being used, and less overall capacity in the diner, meaning less coach pax will have the ability to pay. It has never made sense to me. When Amtrak ordered these, did they intend on not having an SSL or not staffing the bottom of it? I know it was meant to simplify prep downstairs but if prep time is the only thing you're worried about and you have no intention of using the cafe part, I don't understand the point of reduced diner seating.


The idea was to avoid the Sightseer. Others can tell you whether that happened for any period of time on the Capitol or Eagle (I can't), but I did encounter a lounge-less City more than once.

I do remember seeing pictures of 37000 on 29/30 in late 2006/early 2007, and again on 58/59 the fall of 2007. I think Rtabern (and maybe Trogdor) have pictures of one or the other.


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## printman2000 (Jul 15, 2012)

Pic of the CCC that we had on our recent Coast Starlight. All 4 person booths on the long end. The short end still had the weird 3 person booths.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 15, 2012)

About the only good thing I can say about the CCCs on the Eagles and CONO is that the Crew can hang out in the Mafia Seats in the "Cafe" part of the Car without taking up Seats in the Diner like they do on other LD Routes!


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## rtabern (Jul 15, 2012)

Yes, I got some pictures.

In October 2007, I rode the City of New Orleans from Homewood to Chicago on the City of New Orleans and had breakfast in the Cross Country Cafe. This is when the whole CCC concept just was implimented on #58 and #59 -- and the consist was running with no Sightseer Lounge -- and just the CCC with half of it as the diner and half of it as a lounge.

Note the original concept was to serve breakfast all the way into Chicago on the northbound City of New Orleans -- hence I was testing it -- by taking a Metra to Homewood and buying a $5.40 ticket on the City of New Orleans from Homewood to Chicago -- just to have breakfast as promised.

And yes, it worked. The "breakfast all the way into Chicago" thing was QUICKLY pulled... and by November or December of 2007... breakfast was cut back to stopping in KKI (Kankakee) and has remained so ever since.

Here are some of the photos of a CCC being used as an actual diner:

http://rtabern.shutterfly.com/872#877

(use arrows to see more photos)

While I am very anti-CCC, I did think it was cool you could eat breakfast on the City of New Orleans boarding in Homewood -- meaning Chicagoans can have an Am-breakfast by just riding down to Homewood on Metra and riding #58 back into CUS.


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## Trogdor (Jul 16, 2012)

All four sets have had regular Parlours for at least a week now, but with one in the shop (not one of the two that were OOS when the thread started) for scheduled maintenance, there aren't any spares so if anything goes wrong, one will get blanked again.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 16, 2012)

Trogdor said:


> All four sets have had regular Parlours for at least a week now, but with one in the shop (not one of the two that were OOS when the thread started) for scheduled maintenance, there aren't any spares so if anything goes wrong, one will get blanked again.


So in other words are the 2 that went in the shop when this thread started back on the line now and the "protect car" now being rotated through maintenance?


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## Trogdor (Jul 16, 2012)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> So in other words are the 2 that went in the shop when this thread started back on the line now and the "protect car" now being rotated through maintenance?


Yes.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 16, 2012)

Trogdor said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > So in other words are the 2 that went in the shop when this thread started back on the line now and the "protect car" now being rotated through maintenance?
> ...


EXCELLENT! Thanks for the update.


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## saxman (Jul 16, 2012)

I just boarded 14 here in LAX and there IS a PPC!! Yay! I'm going to go sit in it.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 16, 2012)

saxman said:


> I just boarded 14 here in LAX and there IS a PPC!! Yay! I'm going to go sit in it.


:hi: Greetings from Drying out Central Texas Chris! How was the Arrival/"Layover" in LAXUS, is the Traxx Lounge open earlier for those catching the CS off the Eagle??? Ill be there in 25 days  , look forward to your always interesting Reports!


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## rusty spike (Jul 16, 2012)

saxman said:


> I just boarded 14 here in LAX and there IS a PPC!! Yay! I'm going to go sit in it.


Thank you for the update...we're scheduled to be on #14(23) next Monday. Hope they hold up til then. Have a good trip!


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## amtraknovi (Jul 16, 2012)

rusty spike said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> > I just boarded 14 here in LAX and there IS a PPC!! Yay! I'm going to go sit in it.
> ...


I'm on 14 next week and am looking forward to having a PPC as I am taking my parents this trip and have told them about the PPC (excited). I will not be devastated if we only have a CCC. As someone has mentioned before, those purple chairs sure could use updating. To me that seems like such a low cost/ great bang for your buck move by Amtrak.


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## dalexPHL (Jul 16, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I disagree. Any SCA who claims that a CCC is "better" than a 1950's era PPC is not the smartest of the bunch. It's like saying a Greyhound bus is better for going cross country than your private car because it carries more people!


I was on the old El-Cap "Sky Lounge" in the 1990's. It was still a 1950's Budd product, although reupholstered. The PPC today is full of really awful barcoloungers and Home Depot To Much Is Never Enough trim.

At least the CCC has a coherent decorating scheme, even if it is missing the upper windows.


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## acelafan (Jul 17, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I do hope the inward-facing booths get swapped out for traditional 4-person booths. I think the current CCC design of those booths is absolutely atrocious....not to mention the small surface area of the tables. I know there are a dozen threads on the subject but let's get rid of those CCC booths sooner rather than later. Yes, I am dramatic!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 17, 2012)

dalexPHL said:


> I was on the old El-Cap "Sky Lounge" in the 1990's. It was still a 1950's Budd product, although reupholstered. The PPC today is full of really awful barcoloungers and Home Depot To Much Is Never Enough trim. At least the CCC has a coherent decorating scheme, even if it is missing the upper windows.


I'll still go with the PPC any day of the week. I wonder if it would have been possible to turn today's CCC's into sleeper cars instead. If so they certainly wouldn't be sitting around wasting away in Chicago.


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## nferr (Jul 18, 2012)

I like the PPC for it's "old" charm. But a CCC would be fine for me as long as they're serving the PPC menu. In fact with some decorating the CCC's would be fine as long term replacements when the PPC's have run their course IMO.


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## pebbleworm (Jul 19, 2012)

I've never been in a CCC, but they look like they would work better as a parlor car than a sightseer lounge, which has happened before.


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## GAT (Dec 10, 2012)

Is there any way of determining in advance whether there will be a PPC on #11 December 31? Or do I just have to wait and see? I strongly suspect the latter, unless the two out-of-service cars are now back in service.

Also, I have been searching for a video of the interior of a PPC that I'm sure I saw a couple of years ago on this forum, but be darned if I can find it now. I'd love to show it to a friend whom I'm trying to convince to travel with me. Can anybody direct me to it?

Many thanks........


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## rrdude (Dec 10, 2012)

George said:


> Is there any way of determining in advance whether there will be a PPC on #11 December 31? Or do I just have to wait and see? I strongly suspect the latter, unless the two out-of-service cars are now back in service.
> 
> Also, I have been searching for a video of the interior of a PPC that I'm sure I saw a couple of years ago on this forum, but be darned if I can find it now. I'd love to show it to a friend whom I'm trying to convince to travel with me. Can anybody direct me to it?
> 
> Many thanks........


Here's one I uploaded to YouTube last year or two, if you search on YouTube, you'll find many more, better too



Here's another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijqikb0POD0


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## Trogdor (Dec 10, 2012)

George said:


> Is there any way of determining in advance whether there will be a PPC on #11 December 31? Or do I just have to wait and see? I strongly suspect the latter, unless the two out-of-service cars are now back in service.


It's always a wait and see.

The two cars that were out of service at the start of this thread were back in service within a couple of days.

The cars are old. Things break. (Things even break on new cars.)

The car gets sent to the maintenance shop. If a replacement part is available, they fix it. It might take anywhere from a few hours to a few days. Then it goes back in service.

Without specific details, I'd wager that each of the five Parlours has been bad-ordered, for various reasons, four or five times since this thread was created earlier this year. In additon, each has probably been cycled out for a few days for inspections that occur every few months.

Meanwhile, something else could break (electrical problem, wheels with flat spots, a broken window, HVAC goes awry, you name it) the day before your trip. Maybe the spare car will be ready for swapping in. Or maybe it will also be bad-ordered with its own problem.

The amount of freaking out on here that goes on every time a Parlour car (or the dome car) goes into the shop vastly exceeds the actual severity of any actual maintenance issue the car experiences. It's just that, with so few of them and having them dedicated as a special service on a route, it becomes more noticeable. If folks tracked five random Superliner coach cars to the same extent that they tracked the five Parlour cars, they'd probably see a similar rate of bad-ordering and swapping going on. But it wouldn't be noticeable because there are a lot more coach cars to swap around with (and the spare parts supply is greater, meaning repairs can be done quicker).


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## Dovecote (Dec 10, 2012)

George said:


> Is there any way of determining in advance whether there will be a PPC on #11 December 31? Or do I just have to wait and see? I strongly suspect the latter, unless the two out-of-service cars are now back in service.
> 
> Also, I have been searching for a video of the interior of a PPC that I'm sure I saw a couple of years ago on this forum, but be darned if I can find it now. I'd love to show it to a friend whom I'm trying to convince to travel with me. Can anybody direct me to it?
> 
> Many thanks........


FWIW, I was on the CS northbound 12/5 and the PPC was missing in action. A diner-lounge was substituted.


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## Nathanael (Dec 10, 2012)

Hmm. If there really are lots of spare CCCs, one should be tacked on the Empire Builder to relieve the pressure on the diner table space there. We know from the Auto Train that one kitchen can serve slightly more than one dining car.


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## leemell (Dec 10, 2012)

Dovecote said:


> George said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any way of determining in advance whether there will be a PPC on #11 December 31? Or do I just have to wait and see? I strongly suspect the latter, unless the two out-of-service cars are now back in service.
> ...


Saw 14 this morning at Van Nuys with PPC.


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## Daniel Niemeyer (Jun 15, 2013)

I will be traveling on the Coast Starlight on Saturday, July 13. Does Amtrak still serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner in a portion of the PAcific Parlour Car? Is there any way to know if there will be a Pacific Parlour Car on the Coast Starlight on Saturday, July 15. Does the Coast Starlight have a complete Sightseer Lounge Car? Does the CoastStarlight still have a complete upstairs dining car, with food preparation on the lower?

Daniel


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## OBS (Jun 15, 2013)

Yes, there is a SS lounge car, Yes there is a "upstairs" dining car, and no ther eis no way of knowing what car will be utilized on that date. For meals, someone else will kindly answer.


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## TVRM610 (Jun 15, 2013)

If a "Parlor Car" is out of service.. Amtrak will still have "Parlor Car Service" but with a sightseer lounge or Cross Country Cafe Car. When I rode the Starlight we had a Sightseer but they did everything just like a Parlor car including wine tasting, meals (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) and the wifi. Was really hard to complain since we still had a private lounge with all the extras. The only thing missing is the "charm" of the real PPC cars. But the "charm" is that they are old and unique so therefore sometimes unavailable.

Trust me.. the 2 things I told most people about when talking before my trip in January was the Parlor Car and Raton Pass on the SWC. (2 things that may be on limited time)... I was pretty sad not to have a Parlor Car but when I saw that Amtrak did the full Parlor experience it really impressed me and honestly was hard to complain. Some of the Starlight regulars even mentioned that the SSL has larger windows so there is at least one plus (and indeed the bigger the windows the better on that route).


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## the_traveler (Jun 15, 2013)

I have been on the CS twice when there was not a PPC. As noted, if that does happen they add either a SSL or a CCC for the sleeping car passengers. (I've had both.)

Since the PPC is over 60 years old and Amtrak only has 5 of them (with 4 needed at all times), if 2 are out of service at any time there is no choice but to substitute another car. Thus it is not possible to say for certain if there will be a PPC on a certain day in the future. I hope not, but you can't even be certain if there will be one tomorrow out of LAX. They may prepare the CS for departure and discover problems with 2 of them.


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## Dovecote (Jun 15, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> I have been on the CS twice when there was not a PPC. As noted, if that does happen they add either a SSL or a CCC for the sleeping car passengers. (I've had both.)
> Since the PPC is over 60 years old and Amtrak only has 5 of them (with 4 needed at all times), if 2 are out of service at any time there is no choice but to substitute another car. Thus it is not possible to say for certain if there will be a PPC on a certain day in the future. I hope not, but you can't even be certain if there will be one tomorrow out of LAX. They may prepare the CS for departure and discover problems with 2 of them.


Don't jinx me Dave! I will be on the CS out of LAUS on July 4 and certainly hope to get a real PPC. My luck was not with me in December 2012 and got stuck with a SSL. I hope my luck is better this time around especially since the PPC seems to be on the endangered list!

I have not heard recently of any PPC substitutions on this Forum and will keep my fingers crossed that this pattern will continue.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jun 16, 2013)

If an SSL is an acceptable substitute for a PPC (and I would agree that it is), what is Amtrak's stated reason for not having a "first class lounge" on other trains, especially "premier" trains like the EB? Is it simply a lack of SSLs or CCCs?


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## Ryan (Jun 17, 2013)

Yes.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 17, 2013)

Every trip I've been on where they've substituted for a PPC, my luck has been it's been substituted with a CCC. That is a poor substitute IMHO and I'd much rather have had an SSL.

Just out of curiousity, when they use an SSL for PPC service, does the attendant staff the upstairs drink station or does he use the downstairs?


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 17, 2013)

zephyr17 said:


> Every trip I've been on where they've substituted for a PPC, my luck has been it's been substituted with a CCC. That is a poor substitute IMHO and I'd much rather have had an SSL.
> Just out of curiousity, when they use an SSL for PPC service, does the attendant staff the upstairs drink station or does he use the downstairs?


In my One Experience where a CCC was Substituted for a PPC (I agree a SSL is Superior!) the Attendant Operated out of the Upstairs Lounge Part of the CCC and the Food was Brought in from the Diner as now often Happens on most PPC Trips! I

Haven't seen the Steam Table used the past three times I rode on the Starlight in the PPC! (So who wants to stay in their Room on this Train?  )


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## Dovecote (Jun 17, 2013)

zephyr17 said:


> Every trip I've been on where they've substituted for a PPC, my luck has been it's been substituted with a CCC. That is a poor substitute IMHO and I'd much rather have had an SSL.
> Just out of curiousity, when they use an SSL for PPC service, does the attendant staff the upstairs drink station or does he use the downstairs?


It was a SSL on my one and only trip on the CS. The attendant operated upstairs. Lunch was my only meal and it was prepared at his station.


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