# Amtrak and Pets???



## mercedeslove (Apr 22, 2008)

So I might possibly be traveling between Chi and Flagstaff AZ a few times over the summer. I am getting a Sun Conure (my other parrot died a week ago today and I am still a mess) in a few weeks and since he is still a baby and requires hand feeding, it means he has to be with me. Does Amtrak allow pets on aboard.


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## BobWeaver (Apr 22, 2008)

mercedeslove said:


> So I might possibly be traveling between Chi and Flagstaff AZ a few times over the summer. I am getting a Sun Conure (my other parrot died a week ago today and I am still a mess) in a few weeks and since he is still a baby and requires hand feeding, it means he has to be with me. Does Amtrak allow pets on aboard.


http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...51&ssid=190


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Apr 22, 2008)

mercedeslove said:


> So I might possibly be traveling between Chi and Flagstaff AZ a few times over the summer. I am getting a Sun Conure (my other parrot died a week ago today and I am still a mess) in a few weeks and since he is still a baby and requires hand feeding, it means he has to be with me. Does Amtrak allow pets on aboard.



No, but a "service animal" is permitted if you have proper documentation and you maintain control of it at all times. You will need to contact Amtrak for details and any policy guidelines (which may have changed since my departure).

OBS gone Freight...


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## mercedeslove (Apr 22, 2008)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> mercedeslove said:
> 
> 
> > So I might possibly be traveling between Chi and Flagstaff AZ a few times over the summer. I am getting a Sun Conure (my other parrot died a week ago today and I am still a mess) in a few weeks and since he is still a baby and requires hand feeding, it means he has to be with me. Does Amtrak allow pets on aboard.
> ...



bummer. oh well guess I will have to freaking drive.


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## VentureForth (Apr 22, 2008)

Oh please don't freaking drive. That would scare your poor bird. Driving carefully should be adequate. :huh:


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## RailFanLNK (Apr 22, 2008)

We were on the CZ in March and couldn't believe our eyes. Some gal had her dog with her on the train. Sorry folks, but this wasn't a service dog. It was at best...an ankle biter. Maybe 10lb dog at best. We couldn't figure out how she pulled that one off. I was trying to talk the dog into posting on the site here with a trip report! :lol:


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## Cascadia (Apr 22, 2008)

rail rookie said:


> We were on the CZ in March and couldn't believe our eyes. Some gal had her dog with her on the train. Sorry folks, but this wasn't a service dog. It was at best...an ankle biter. Maybe 10lb dog at best. We couldn't figure out how she pulled that one off. I was trying to talk the dog into posting on the site here with a trip report! :lol:


HI Al, there's different categories of service dogs these days than just the standard Seeing Eye Dog. I know someone who is training a miniature schnauzer to be a service dog for an autistic girl. I guess having an animal to focus on helps them to function and not get overwhelmed by stimulus in the environment.

I think there's kind of a wide range of applications for therapy, oh for instance have you heard of those dogs that sense when an epileptic person is about to have a seizure? That's so interesting. I guess any dog with the right personality and aptitude could be one of those, it wouldn't have to be some huge lab or german shepherd.


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## transit54 (Apr 22, 2008)

At the airport we've seen service animals as diverse as parrots and pigs. There is a class of people who do get service animal letters to avoid our pet fee ($75) or if their pet is too large to be brought on board. But I'd say those are definitely the small minority.


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## Rail Freak (Apr 22, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> rail rookie said:
> 
> 
> > We were on the CZ in March and couldn't believe our eyes. Some gal had her dog with her on the train. Sorry folks, but this wasn't a service dog. It was at best...an ankle biter. Maybe 10lb dog at best. We couldn't figure out how she pulled that one off. I was trying to talk the dog into posting on the site here with a trip report! :lol:
> ...


Yeah, but a parrot or frog or etc., AFLAC!!!!


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 22, 2008)

I recall a few years ago someone managed to get a fairly large pig onto a flight, claiming it was a "service animal." Well, once at altitude, the pig panicked and went on a rampage in First Class, including unloading himself in the galley. I guess the pig was just trying to fit in with some of the passengers I have encountered on planes :lol:


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## AKA (Apr 22, 2008)

Sometime ago on this forum there was a post like this. Someone had been on the CZ. A girl got on with a small dog. She was a regular and known by the conductor. She only went one stop down the line and as is Amtraks policy was put off the train. Thus following policy after discovery of the dog by the conductor. However this seemed to be a regular routine with the girl who rode the one stop to visit someone at the next stop. So everyone comes out a winner. The conductor does his job, the girl gets to take her dog along for the ride and the other pax see the policy enforced.


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## RidesOften (Apr 22, 2008)

I once saw a woman with a empty cage. I asked her what was in the cage couldn't see any animal in it . Turns out it was a tiny puppy in her hand bag.

Not to memtion the service dog that got away from it owner at a stop and we had to retreive it that trick took 3 people.

I love all Pets but please leave the snakes at home hehehehe service animal plz

well goes to show it could be anything.    

Loves Florida's trains and works on them


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 22, 2008)

Mercedes, you should see what you can do with it rather than drive. Just make sure you keep it quiet in coach


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## transit54 (Apr 22, 2008)

I can imagine a bird would be very difficult to sneak on board, even in a sleeper.

One night I was working the ticket counter and a college student heading home for the holidays showed up to check in. He was carrying a small red duffle bag, and inquired as to whether or not it was appropriate carry on size. I told him it would be fine.

"Oh, that's good!" he exclaimed. "Because I have everything I own in here! Including my hamster!" He proceeded to unzip the bag a bit and I saw a hamster ball, complete with a hamster, stuffed in around his clothes. I informed him the hamster couldn't be brought on board and gave him his boarding passes. While I can't say for certain, I do believe he snuck the creature through security and took it on the flight without incident.


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## RailFanLNK (Apr 23, 2008)

Back in my drinking days I had a dog that used to go to the downstairs frig and get me a beer when I commanded! Is this a service dog? :lol:


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## Chatter163 (Apr 23, 2008)

> Mercedes, you should see what you can do with it rather than drive. Just make sure you keep it quiet in coach


No, she should abide by the proper policy.


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## the_traveler (Apr 23, 2008)

rail rookie said:


> Back in my drinking days I had a dog that used to go to the downstairs frig and get me a beer when I commanded! Is this a service dog? :lol:


No, he would only qualify as a service dog if he could prepare mixed drinks! :lol: :lol:


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## mercedeslove (Apr 23, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Mercedes, you should see what you can do with it rather than drive. Just make sure you keep it quiet in coach



He's not even two months old yet, so i think keeping Jalapeno (his name) quiet would be hard. I am sure I will end up driving, I just like how convenient Amtrak is.


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## Jim in Michigan (Apr 24, 2008)

Last year we were on the Texas Eagle in sleepers and a woman in our car had smuggled on a small dog. I guess the rocking of the train made the dog yap and she was visited shortly by the Conductor. When the Conductor informed her that dogs weren't allowed on the train and either the dog or her and the dog would be departing the train at the next stop, things got down right nasty. She hurled a steady stream of obscenities at the Conductor for the next few minutes. The Conductor finally told her knock it off or there will a sheriff there to greet her on arrival. That seemed to quiet her down some but she kept referring to him as an a-hole. I just don't understand the mentality of some people who can't seem to own the problem when they screw up.

She made it as far as Normal, IL on her journey from Chicago and I had to wonder how far south her original trip was planned. What a way to ruin a trip!


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 25, 2008)

I keep thinking about that dog episode Railroad Dave wrote a while back.


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## GG-1 (Apr 25, 2008)

Aloha

I love anamals period. After reading all the comments abouts pets in this thread I wonder about those people that would subject their pet to such a strange enviroment.

Moving, Service animal aside, placing a creature in uncomfortable surrounding's for my pleasure, I just don't understand those that say they love their pet and do this.

Ok off soapbox.

Eric


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## yoohoo (Apr 25, 2008)

Silly policy! Amtrak would have *more* passengers if animals were allowed, since driving seems to be the only way to move your pet with you. What about folks who dont drive? There would be a market there.

And really, what would most people prefer: a cute barking dog or an annoying crying baby?


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## George Harris (Apr 25, 2008)

For a price, you can fly your pet. We did it when we moved back from overseas. The dog finally forgave us.

There is nothing cute about a yapper. We have a few of these mentally retarded critters in the apartment complex we are in now. I am more inclined to want to boil the owners in oil. :angry:


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## JayPea (Apr 25, 2008)

Problem is, where do you draw the line?? A little yapper dog is one thing, but what about the pet owner who wants to travel with their bull mastiff, Irish wolfhound, or Saint Bernard???

Better save Amtrak headaches by not allowing ANY pets.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2008)

I think the overlooked issue is where would they "go" and how would the owner know when it was "time"?

Also, is the baggage car temperature controlled?


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## D.P. Roberts (Apr 25, 2008)

And what about all those people who are allergic to pets? Do you really want to try to spend 24 hours or more on a chair/bed that a dog has just slept on? I can just see a scenario where, in three adjoining rows, one person's parrot, another's cat, and a third person's dog get in a fight straight out of Looney Tunes. No pets, for sure.


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## AlanB (Apr 25, 2008)

Guest said:


> Also, is the baggage car temperature controlled?


No.

Unless you consider them temperature controlled by the outside air temperature. :lol:


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## yoohoo (Apr 25, 2008)

If Amtrak limit the policy to allow small animals that are kept in cages (birds, cats, mice, lizards, fish, etc.) and cause no disturbance there wouldnt be a problem.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 26, 2008)

There is a policy. If your pet is sufficiently well controlled and silent that we don't notice it, you can take it with you. Otherwise, I'd quote the final words of the Marathon rental agent in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles".


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## transit54 (Apr 26, 2008)

yoohoo said:


> If Amtrak limit the policy to allow small animals that are kept in cages (birds, cats, mice, lizards, fish, etc.) and cause no disturbance there wouldnt be a problem.


The problem is, how do you regulate that, especially on trains that can take anywhere from 10-40 hours to get somewhere?

My airline's policy is small dogs and cats, under 20 lbs, able to fit in a soft sided pet carrier under the seat in front of you. The cost to do this is $75, and I think its going up after June 1st. The longest of our flights are about 5 hours, with maybe an hour added for any taxi delays.

If Amtrak had a similar policy, there wouldn't be an issue with someone taking a pet a few stops on the Regional, or some other corridor trip. But what if I want to take a pet on a trip from NYP to LAX in coach? A lot of pets can't be caged that long (obviously the ones listed above can). But what happens if one's lizard or bird or mouse gets out? This happens more then you'd think on airlines, even those like mine that don't allow such pets. I've heard many stories from flight attendants where a mouse or a gerbil or something of that nature has gotten loose and started running around the cabin, causing quite a disturbance among passengers. I can just forsee an issue where a pet gets loose, the train doors open, and it escapes, and the customer blames Amtrak.

Personally, I think a limited number of pets should be allowed, but only if one is traveling in a sleeper. It might sell more sleepers, and provided someone keeps their sleep door closed, there would be less of an issue of something getting loose. But then you'd have a roomette or bedroom that smelled like dog or cat or something that someone would complain about. Perhaps there could be a "pet roomette" or something of that nature. I'm not sure, I'd have to give some more thought to the idea.


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## haolerider (Apr 26, 2008)

rnizlek said:


> yoohoo said:
> 
> 
> > If Amtrak limit the policy to allow small animals that are kept in cages (birds, cats, mice, lizards, fish, etc.) and cause no disturbance there wouldnt be a problem.
> ...


The rule is no pets and all the discussion about limiting the size, type, length of trip really doesn't hold any validity. It is easier to keep the current policy. That being said, there has been discussion for many years of creating a Pet Car for the Auto Train, that would be sponsored by a major pet food company - Purina, etc, etc. The passenger would pay a hefty price to have their pet accommodated in the car and they would have the ability to visit their pets. There would have to be a staff person in the car, qualified to monitor the cages and that person would be paid for by the sponsoring company - who would probably make their revenue from the sale of food, toys, and other per related stuff. If this would work, it would eliminate all the problems with allergies, noisy and obnoxious pets and other problems.


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## ThayerATM (Apr 26, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> There is a policy. If your pet is sufficiently well controlled and silent that we don't notice it, you can take it with you. Otherwise, I'd quote the final words of the Marathon rental agent in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles".


GML,

I took a minute and looked up the Marathon rental agent's remark. I'll be laughing for a week.  Short, and to the point!


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## jphjaxfl (Apr 27, 2008)

Back in the days of private railroad passenger trains, small pets were allowed in Sleeping Cars. I took the Texas Chief from Chicago to Houston in February 1971 when Santa Fe still operated the train. An older gentleman is the roomette across the hall had his miniture poodle in the roomette with him. The dog was well behaved and did not bark. At the longer stops, he would walk the dog to the end of the platform to do its business. I remember being on other trains too where women would have small dogs with them in the Sleeping Cars. I don't think it would work today because the dog owners are not as concerned about making their pets behave.


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## DesertRat (Apr 27, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> rail rookie said:
> 
> 
> > We were on the CZ in March and couldn't believe our eyes. Some gal had her dog with her on the train. Sorry folks, but this wasn't a service dog. It was at best...an ankle biter. Maybe 10lb dog at best. We couldn't figure out how she pulled that one off. I was trying to talk the dog into posting on the site here with a trip report! :lol:
> ...


 Correct. They have been using dogs for the deaf and hard of hearing. Usually smaller breeds like the Corgi, but I'm guessing any size is fine as long as they are good at alerting on sounds.


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## Nora Hope (Jul 9, 2010)

Here's the rationalization for the anti-pet policy on Amtrak, taken from another site: "We didn't understand the rule either, until we checked with the National Association of Railroad Passengers. They said that until 1976, pets were allowed in the sleeping car, in the parlor cars and in baggage. Then in 1977, "there were new requirements for heat and air conditioning for baggage cars (and possibly for providing water). Amtrak determined that it would need to spend $13.8 million on baggage car changes and special animal shelters in stations to satisfy the new regulations, and ended the carriage of pets rather than comply." We wish they would reconsider equipping some of their cars with pet friendly amenities, but as of this writing, they is still no movement in that direction." Let us talk now of airline policies. You are allowed to take a small pet who fits in a secure carrier under the seat on every airline I know of. If I am commuting between two homes because of work, I want to be able to take my 9 pounder in his secured carrier that would easily fit under the train seat. He sleeps the whole way, comforted by my foot smell... (Sorry, owners of big animals, I am selfish, I know.) Do Amtrak business types read this forum? Then please consider how much business you are losing to airlines because of your anti-pet policy! Statistically, owners of cats and small dogs who want to travel with their pets have given up on Amtrak. Get it?!


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## Nora Hope (Jul 9, 2010)

yoohoo said:


> Silly policy! Amtrak would have *more* passengers if animals were allowed, since driving seems to be the only way to move your pet with you. What about folks who dont drive? There would be a market there.
> 
> And really, what would most people prefer: a cute barking dog or an annoying crying baby?


I have been on hundreds of plane trips and I honestly do not remember hearing ONE barking dog in a carrier in the cabin with its owner. Babies - lots and lots of them cry. Their little ear canals get a beating and it is too crazy not being able to settle down other than on parent's lap or to move around freely. Anyone who complains about crying babies better remember that they were that baby at one point. If you can't help the family by distracting the baby or offering to hold the upset baby if parents permit, then put in your iPod and hush up yourself.


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## Shanghai (Jul 10, 2010)

*I was on the Cardinal earlier this year with a lady with a small Yorkie dog. We were in the sleeper car.*

*She would take the dog out at smoke stops. The dog was very well behaved and didn't bark. I don't know*

*how she was able to justify it as a service dog, but we all knew she had the dog.*

* *

*We have a Coton de Tulear dog that is hypo-allerginic. These dogs, and others like a Poodle, Bichon & Maltese*

*do not cause any adverse reactions to people because they have hair, not fur and do not shed. Our dog flew*

*over the Atlantic eight times without incident. I was allowed to bring the dog into the cabin in a proper bag*

*but could not take him out of the bag. I would let him lick on ice and would give him small bits of food during*

*the trip.*

* *

*I do feel that traveling on a train (for long distances) is not wise for pets. There is no facilities for the pets*

*at train stations and certainly not onboard the coaches. Often a dog will bark because of environmental conditions*

*out of control of the dog owner - like noise and strange movements. *

* *

*I do take our dog on short trips on NJT & LIRR in a proper carrier.*

*I love our dog, but I don't think he belongs on a long distance train.*


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## Ryan (Jul 10, 2010)

Nora Hope said:


> Then please consider how much business you are losing to airlines because of your anti-pet policy! Statistically, owners of cats and small dogs who want to travel with their pets have given up on Amtrak. Get it?!


They're probably correctly surmised that they'd lose more business from people that are allergic or have no desire to be locked in a tube with a dog or cat for a day or two (vastly different than on an airplane for an hour or two).



Shanghai said:


> *These dogs, and others like a Poodle, Bichon & Maltese*
> 
> *do not cause any adverse reactions to people because they have hair, not fur and do not shed.*


*Not true. These dogs can be less irritating to people that are allergic to dogs (like me), but they still produce dander and saliva that contain allergens.*


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## PetalumaLoco (Jul 10, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Nora Hope said:
> 
> 
> > Then please consider how much business you are losing to airlines because of your anti-pet policy! Statistically, owners of cats and small dogs who want to travel with their pets have given up on Amtrak. Get it?!
> ...


*Dog hair or dog fur?*


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## Shanghai (Jul 10, 2010)

*Thank you, PetalumLoco for the info on hair -vs- fur.*

*Our older daugher has breathing issues and has extreme difficulties*

*when she is around animals with fur, but has no such problems with*

*our "hair" dog.*

* *

*In any event, I continue to feel that dogs (pets) do not belong on*

*long distance trains.*


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## Ryan (Jul 10, 2010)

Interesting link, but my point still stands - having hypoallergenic dogs helps lessen the severity of the reaction, but doesn't eliminate entirely it for everyone.


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## bennett feinstein (Sep 30, 2010)

Most airlines allow small pets in secure carriers that fit under the seat. The only serious effect of Amtrak's anti-pet policy is that they lose customers to the airlines. I have been on flights with my own small dog and have watched other small dogs. They go to sleep calmly at their owners' feet, tucked under the seat. If you leave your dog during an 8 hour work day, they can hold their functions for a trip. I urge people to write an email to Amtrak customer service and express their dissatisfaction with the anti-pet policy. Let those in charge consider a cost analysis of howmuch more revenue they would bring in if they followed the airlines' example. (BTW, you pay a $50 fee on most airlines, not a full ticket price.)


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## bennett feinstein (Sep 30, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> 
> I love anamals period. After reading all the comments abouts pets in this thread I wonder about those people that would subject their pet to such a strange enviroment.
> 
> ...


It is a lot stranger for the animal to be left behind. Pets are more than pleasure for many people - not only trained dogs are "therapy dogs" For many people their pets are an essential part of their mental health. Amtrak should follow the airlines' example and allow small pets in secure carriers on board and under the passenger's seat. All it would "cost" would be a lot of new riders who normally would fly or drive because of the Amtrak anti-pet policy.


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## bennett feinstein (Sep 30, 2010)

yoohoo said:


> Silly policy! Amtrak would have *more* passengers if animals were allowed, since driving seems to be the only way to move your pet with you. What about folks who dont drive? There would be a market there.
> 
> And really, what would most people prefer: a cute barking dog or an annoying crying baby?


In all my years of travelling on planes with small dogs in carriers under the seat I have never heard one bark. They are next to their owners and feel secure. My dogs have always slept the whole way through. No comments about babies - they are us and the cabin pressure hurts their ears.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 30, 2010)

I know via rail used to allow pets but they had to be in a pet carrier and they had to ride in the baggage car. It was up to you to make sure they had enough food and water for the trip.


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## Ryan (Sep 30, 2010)

Just stop.

Nobody wants to see your stupid dog on the train.


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## bennett feinstein (Sep 30, 2010)

JayPea said:


> Problem is, where do you draw the line?? A little yapper dog is one thing, but what about the pet owner who wants to travel with their bull mastiff, Irish wolfhound, or Saint Bernard???
> 
> Better save Amtrak headaches by not allowing ANY pets.



Think: airlines. Small animals in secure carriers go under the seat. Large animals go in carriers in the baggage area. Dogs can hold their functions longer than most humans. I am frustrated to read comments such as this one that makes the idea of animals on trains sound like it comes from outer space. I love train travel and would much prefer paying Amtrak instead of an airline or a rental car business for my travels, but not if they forbid my dog.


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## amamba (Sep 30, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Just stop.
> 
> Nobody wants to see your stupid dog on the train.


Well I feel that way about children, but do we really have to rehash this whole thing? 

Some people are pet people, some people are not pet people. At the end of the day, amtrak has made their decision and that is to not allow pets on the train. Us pet people can live with it, but there is no need to insult our dogs by calling them stupid.


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## bennett feinstein (Sep 30, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Just stop.
> 
> Nobody wants to see your stupid dog on the train.


This is inappropriate but it does reveal your true feelings, which have nothing to do with Amtrak's policies.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 30, 2010)

No, I think it has more to do with your going through two pages worth of arguments and posting responses, one by one, as if there's any new insight.

And fyi-- I don't wanna see your stupid dog either.


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## EB_OBS (Sep 30, 2010)

Amtrak doesn't allow pets for many good reasons and none of them have anything to do with anyone's disliking animals.

1. 99% of pets are not trained.

2. Many pets are not socialized to public places and strange people.

3. Many people are allergic to pet hair.

4. Train travel is typically anywhere from 1 to 3 days. The longest flights in this country are what 6 to 8 hours?

5. Seats and rooms on a train can be used for many passengers boarding and detraining enroute. You pet sheds and this cannot typically be cleaned up effectively enroute. This is why even service animals are not allowed on the seats or beds.

6. It's difficult to limit and effectively prohibit some pets while allowing others.

I'm sure I can think of more. I have pets. I have 3 cats and 2 Boxers. They do not travel with us. They go to the kennel.


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## AlanB (Oct 1, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> I know via rail used to allow pets but they had to be in a pet carrier and they had to ride in the baggage car. It was up to you to make sure they had enough food and water for the trip.


VIA still does allow that, at least on the Candadian.


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## Ryan (Oct 1, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> No, I think it has more to do with your going through two pages worth of arguments and posting responses, one by one, as if there's any new insight.


Precisely. If you have anything new to add, compile all your arguments and write a coherent post. Going through and making post after post after post, rehashing the same arguments that you're clearly reading does absolutely no good.
You do realize that "This Web site is not operated by or affiliated with the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak®)." and so nobody that you're trying to influence is ever going to read it?


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## mercedeslove (Oct 3, 2010)

EB_OBS said:


> Amtrak doesn't allow pets for many good reasons and none of them have anything to do with anyone's disliking animals.
> 
> 1. 99% of pets are not trained.
> 
> ...



1. Same goes for children

2. Same for children

3. I am allergic to small children and their endless crying and screaming.

Your argument is invalid.


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## jimhudson (Oct 3, 2010)

Since I am well known on this forum for never expressing a controversial opinion, ad always agreeing with everyone and everything they post: :lol: My take on this topic is:

Let the pax that cn't be without Fido or Fluffy for a few days (they do have Vets and pet Centers that take good care of your darlings!)ride in the baggage car with their pets. ut up signs like they have on the streets of New york and other cities! When the drug dogs come through, be sure they are in their cages/carriers so they wont be eaten/torn limb from limb!

Reasoning with animal rights activists and people that consider their pets as children/people is as difficult as trying to reason with gun nuts,tea party idiots or religious zealots, can't be done! So keep them off Amtrak, just like guns and drugs and tobacco (even though those are currently there too!) and the majority of passengers will be OK with that! Childern are not in this catagory, I admit some so called parents need leases themselves, but most are great, they are Amtraks future riders, get em while they are young! Just saying!


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## Ryan (Oct 3, 2010)

mercedeslove said:


> 1. Same goes for children
> 
> 2. Same for children
> 
> ...


1. False.

2. False.

3. Impossible. You may find it unpleasant, but that's a personal problem, not an allergy.


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## mercedeslove (Oct 3, 2010)

Ryan said:


> mercedeslove said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Same goes for children
> ...



1. Children are not trained, they are rude and obnoxious. They do whatever they can't whenever they want.

2. If you go to restaurants, stores, movie theaters. Children scream and cry and don't know how to behave in social situations around other people. Animals are way more behaved than these monsters

3. If the screaming banshee gives me a headache and makes me rage, I'd say that's an allergy, not a personal problem. The personal problem is the parents who think children are the center of the universe and its ok for them to behave like demons because 'they are just being kids'


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## Ryan (Oct 3, 2010)

It's clear that you're unwilling to listen to reason, so I'll stop the sniping back and forth. Suffice to say that my son doesn't act that way, and neither do the vast majority of his peers that I come into contact with (sports teams, scouts, etc).


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## mercedeslove (Oct 3, 2010)

Ryan said:


> It's clear that you're unwilling to listen to reason, so I'll stop the sniping back and forth. Suffice to say that my son doesn't act that way, and neither do the vast majority of his peers that I come into contact with (sports teams, scouts, etc).



Probably because you don't see it since you are the parent and think your child is well behaved and golden. While everyone else sees the truth.

Why don't you just stop, no one wants to see your stupid kid on the train or anywhere else for that matter.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 3, 2010)

I dislike children and animals, however, children are humans and have rights to be on a train. Pets do not have the same rights.


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## Ryan (Oct 3, 2010)

Wow, I guess I really touched a nerve here! I guess a random stranger on the internet knows more about my kid than all of the people that compliment my wife and I on my son's behaviour!

You know, you really are pathetic to stoop to insulting another member's kids to try and prove some stupid point.


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## GG-1 (Oct 3, 2010)

enough already, seems like adults are worse than kids.


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## sunchaser (Oct 3, 2010)

This seems like a hot button for a lot of people!

Really IMHO, you cannot compare pets to children.

It is true however, that there are misbehaved children & pets.

As a mom, grandmom, & pet lover, there are times when I don't want any of them in public!

I think, depending on the situation, children can be bad or good.

The same can be said about pets, too.

I have said before I would love to bring my Macaw along on the train, but very few would be happy about that, & it's totally understandable. It would also not necessarily be good for him.

I think IF it was okay to bring him, I would still leave him behind. I would rather not have him upset about anything! That being said, he does like riding in the car, & we do take him on occasion!

So, with pets, I think we must also consider what's good for them too!


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## mercedeslove (Oct 3, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Wow, I guess I really touched a nerve here! I guess a random stranger on the internet knows more about my kid than all of the people that compliment my wife and I on my son's behaviour!
> 
> You know, you really are pathetic to stoop to insulting another member's kids to try and prove some stupid point.



says the man who insulted someones pets, which is even worse. A pet doesn't speak English and can't stick up for him/herself.


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## mercedeslove (Oct 3, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> This seems like a hot button for a lot of people!
> 
> Really IMHO, you cannot compare pets to children.
> 
> ...



I'd so totally chill out with your Macaw. I love those birds so much. Ok I love all birds, but the big ones are even better.

I use to handle one who would sleep like a newborn in your arms. He also had a bit of a potty mouth which I found kind of funny. He took not answering a ringing phone so seriously.


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## Ryan (Oct 3, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> enough already, seems like adults are worse than kids.





mercedeslove said:


> says the man who insulted someones pets, which is even worse. A pet doesn't speak English and can't stick up for him/herself.


Looks like reading comprehension isn't one of your stronger suits, either. Even my kid knows to stop when I tell him to, so I guess that makes him better behaved than you are.


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