# Expired passport- no other I.d.



## Luz Maria (Jan 9, 2014)

I need to know if I can use my expired passport as a form of I.d. I have no other form of I.d. and am in desperate need to travel to Oregon from Georgia. I will have my 2 year old son with me & my 19 year old brother who does have current I.d.

I will be buying our tickets online. please help!


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## Eris (Jan 9, 2014)

My understanding is that an expired U.S. passport _should_ be acceptable as ID for travel within the U.S.A.- whether someone checking knows that is another question entirely.

This US Government page says that a passport, expired or not, is proof of both citizenship and identity:

http://www.azahcccs.gov/shared/Downloads/EligibilityManual/AEPM/chapter_0500/508.03_proof_documents_for_us_citizenship_and_identity.htm

But, my experience with Amtrak is that I've almost never been asked for ID at all. So, there's that, too.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 9, 2014)

No one on this message board can give you a definitive answer whether an Amtrak employee will accept an expired passport. Amtrak policies require you to produce an ID on request to an Amtrak employee on board the train. It is not specifically required to board the train in the first place. However, there are several things to know:

1. Not all conductors make this request. IME you have a better than average chance of NOT being asked, but this is no guarantee. Other than

the conductor who lifts your ticket, it is extremely rare to be asked for an ID on board. If you are traveling from Georgia to Oregon, however, you

will be on at least three different trains, so that does increase your chances of being asked.

2. Amtrak's website lists acceptable forms of ID. Please note that a photo ID is NOT specifically required, however the website does not

really list examples of acceptable non-photo ID's. And in any case, if you use a non-photo ID, you need to have TWO pieces of ID, one

of which is issued by a government entity.

3. If you use an expired passport, there is a pretty good chance that the Amtrak employee will not notice the expiration date, unless the photo is

obviously (i.e. 20 or 30 years) out of date.

4. As the previous poster said, expired passports do have some legal standing as acceptable ID forms, but an on-board Amtrak employee may

not be aware of this. In any case, Amtrak's website says to be valid, an ID has to be "current and in-force."

So I would GUESS you would be fine. But as this board is not specifically associated with Amtrak, we can offer no guarantees.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 9, 2014)

One parent crossing state lines with child in tow while carrying questionable ID?

Maybe everything is on the up and up but this sticks out like a sore thumb to me.


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## Blackwolf (Jan 9, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> One parent crossing state lines with child in tow while carrying questionable ID?
> 
> Maybe everything is on the up and up but this sticks out like a sore thumb to me.


This. Even with completely innocent intentions, this combination of circumstances added with the "desperate need to travel to Oregon from Georgia" is worthy of scrutiny and suspicion.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2014)

Are you worried about presenting ID to a conductor on the train, or are you worried about presenting ID to the person at the ticket window when picking up your on-line ordered tickets (if you pick that option)?


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## CoachSlumber (Jan 9, 2014)

Guest said:


> Are you worried about presenting ID to a conductor on the train, or are you worried about presenting ID to the person at the ticket window when picking up your on-line ordered tickets (if you pick that option)?


Yeah, I would think the ID request is more likely to come at the ticket counter. Bring the passport, and anything else with your name on it. Or go to the DMV and renew your license or get a state ID. Presumably you had the means of ID to get the passport.


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## VentureForth (Jan 9, 2014)

Luz Maria said:


> I need to know if I can use my expired passport as a form of I.d. I have no other form of I.d. and am in desperate need to travel to Oregon from Georgia. I will have my 2 year old son with me & my 19 year old brother who does have current I.d.
> 
> I will be buying our tickets online. please help!


If you can wait a day, you can get a DL or at least a state issued ID if you have the necessary documentation. It's almost immediate (you'll at least have a temporary ID), costs less than $50 and gets you what you need. I don't know you or your brother's circumstances, but if everything is on the up and up, the state ID issue shouldn't be a problem. If it IS a problem, all I can suggest is that you take your chances.


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## george (Jan 9, 2014)

Is this a US passport or a foreign passport? If a US passport, then go to a US passport office, or contact them. I have renewed a US passport that had expired, not exactly sure since it has been several years, but do not think I had any other form of ID.

The 19 year odl will also need some form of ID.

If escaping an abusive situation, there are people that can be contacted for help with that. Look for them.

If an expired foreign passport, then you have other problems that we cannot help you with here.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 9, 2014)

CoachSlumber said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Are you worried about presenting ID to a conductor on the train, or are you worried about presenting ID to the person at the ticket window when picking up your on-line ordered tickets (if you pick that option)?
> ...


Why would they need to go to a ticket window? Their tickets are almost assuredly eligible for e-ticketing. They just print out the e-ticket confirmation and get on the train. Or use the Smartphone app. Or a Quik-Trak machine, if available. Unless they're checking bags, there isn't any particular reason they would need to interact with an Amtrak employee at the station.


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## afigg (Jan 9, 2014)

george said:


> Is this a US passport or a foreign passport? If a US passport, then go to a US passport office, or contact them. I have renewed a US passport that had expired, not exactly sure since it has been several years, but do not think I had any other form of ID.
> 
> The 19 year odl will also need some form of ID.
> 
> ...


Renewing a US passport is not an inexpensive proposition these days, especially on short notice. $110 for the passport book plus $60 for expedited service. And odds are, the OP won't asked for an ID if she has valid eTicket printouts.

I don't get these suspicious responses. There are many people who do not have driver licenses (or active ones) and don't have a photo ID from a job (which might not be accepted anyway). If someone was taking Amtrak under questionable circumstances, why would they post here? How about we be more polite and receptive to the guest poster?


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## VentureForth (Jan 9, 2014)

I think we've all been polite and helpful.

And realistic.


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## crew (Jan 9, 2014)

If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)


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## fairviewroad (Jan 9, 2014)

crew said:


> If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)


Right, but if you pick up a ticket from an agent, it's a near 100% chance of being asked for ID...and you're still liable to be asked on the train anyway.

As I said upthread, there are no guarantees here. But ultimately, for strategic purposes, the goal is to minimize the number of interactions with people

who believe it's their job to make sure your "papers please" are in order.


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## the_traveler (Jan 9, 2014)

crew said:


> If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)


I'm sorry, but I have to dispute that claim. I 99+% of the time only have 1 or the other and use a AAA discount. To this day, I have never been asked for ID on the train! The only time I've been asked for ID is when I pick up tickets at the ticket window. (Of course when I print them at a QT - which is 99+% of the time - the QT machine has never asked to see my ID!)
And (my opinion only) an expired passport should be accepted. It is a Government issued ID, has your photo on it and shows your nationality on it.


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## afigg (Jan 9, 2014)

crew said:


> If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)


I agree with the_Traveler. In my experience, which is mostly on corridor services in the east, they rarely ask for ID if you have a printed eTicket or Quik-Trak eTicket. They scan the ticket and move on.


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## mjaynes288 (Jan 9, 2014)

I have been asked to show ID on the Coast Starlight 3 times. Once before the conductor scanned my ticket before boarding and twice when they came around to do seat checks.


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## City of Miami (Jan 9, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> If you can wait a day, you can get a DL or at least a state issued ID if you have the necessary documentation. It's almost immediate (you'll at least have a temporary ID), costs less than $50 and gets you what you need. I don't know you or your brother's circumstances, but if everything is on the up and up, the state ID issue shouldn't be a problem. If it IS a problem, all I can suggest is that you take your chances.


In 2010 in order to get a Texas DL, even though I had current CA DL, I had to produce a notarized original birth certificate and original SS card. It took weeks. Totally outrageous IMHO


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## zephyr17 (Jan 9, 2014)

I've been asked to show ID a couple of times on different LD trains. Probably 90% of the time I haven't had to show ID, but it does happen.


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## the_traveler (Jan 9, 2014)

That IS outrageous! When I moved from NYS to AZ, AZ to NV, NV to AZ and AZ to RI, I just turned in my current (other state's) license and got a new (present state's) license in 3 minutes!


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## Acela150 (Jan 9, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> That IS outrageous! When I moved from NYS to AZ, AZ to NV, NV to AZ and AZ to RI, I just turned in my current (other state's) license and got a new (present state's) license in 3 minutes!


How long did you have to wait though??


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## Blackwolf (Jan 9, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> That IS outrageous! When I moved from NYS to AZ, AZ to NV, NV to AZ and AZ to RI, I just turned in my current (other state's) license and got a new (present state's) license in 3 minutes!


The plastic card for California is made by an outside 3rd Party vendor, and the wait time to get it is the official "two to six weeks." They will provide you with a temporary paper license/ID at the office but it will not have a photograph on it.


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## the_traveler (Jan 9, 2014)

The first time in AZ, about 4 hours. The 2nd time in AZ, they build a new office and I was called to the window even before I left the "check in"(welcome) desk!


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## amamba (Jan 9, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> That IS outrageous! When I moved from NYS to AZ, AZ to NV, NV to AZ and AZ to RI, I just turned in my current (other state's) license and got a new (present state's) license in 3 minutes!


When I moved to RI four years ago it took at least four hours.  That DMV is no joke! :giggle:


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## caravanman (Jan 10, 2014)

I think the main point is that if I am Mr Bloggs and have passed Goverment checks to obtain a passport to confirm this, then I am still Mr Bloggs despite the expiry date on the passport. The passport may no longer be valid as a passport, but it should be accepted to confirm who I am.

Sometimes folk don't travel much and don't keep paperwork up to date because they don't anticipate needing it, and then a sudden death or other disaster strikes where they may need to catch a train at short notice.

Ed


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## gone fishing (Jan 10, 2014)

In Georgia a state ID for 5 years is $20, and 8 yrs is $32. A voter ID is free, but, I don't know if it has a photo on it. I don't know the wait for these. I'm sure an answer is just a call away


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## VentureForth (Jan 10, 2014)

gone fishing said:


> In Georgia a state ID for 5 years is $20, and 8 yrs is $32. A voter ID is free, but, I don't know if it has a photo on it. I don't know the wait for these. I'm sure an answer is just a call away


 Should have a photo on it. And, in Georgia, you get a really nice temporary immediatly (which could probably be laminated!) which looks almost exactly like the real one you get in the mail a couple weeks later.

And, the_traveller, right wrong or indifferent,



fairviewroad said:


> Amtrak's website says to be valid, an ID has to be "current and in-force."


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## haolerider (Jan 10, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> gone fishing said:
> 
> 
> > In Georgia a state ID for 5 years is $20, and 8 yrs is $32. A voter ID is free, but, I don't know if it has a photo on it. I don't know the wait for these. I'm sure an answer is just a call away
> ...


FYI: in Georgia you now need a certified copy of your birth certificate, copy of a utility bill with your current address and your Social Security card to get a DL. This is allegedly a mandate related to,illegal aliens! I was lucky and only had a one hour wait, while my wife was there for much longer.


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## the_traveler (Jan 10, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> And, the_traveller, right wrong or indifferent,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To me, this is dumb for a number of reasons:
1) if you get a passport, you have to prove who you are, and that should not change. Most likely, you're still the same person you were yesterday. I just looked in the mirror, and the same person looking at me yesterday was there today, and it even looks like me!

2) If your name is John Doe, it may be a little more questionable that if your name was Frederick Balsalim.

3) If you were to have a passport made illegally by a criminal, I really doubt that that would stamp holes in it that say "*CANCELLED*"!


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## VentureForth (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm not saying it's smart - just saying that it's the policy. Yeah - in New Mexico, I was really irritated when my wife wanted to cash a check at a casino and she had an expired drivers license. Government issued photo id with matching address to the check, but it wasn't current, so they wouldn't cash it.


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## leemell (Jan 10, 2014)

My wife and I have about 30,000 miles on Amtrak and around the country at least twice and have never been asked for ID. I think the risk is small but not non-existent.


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## BCL (Jan 10, 2014)

caravanman said:


> I think the main point is that if I am Mr Bloggs and have passed Goverment checks to obtain a passport to confirm this, then I am still Mr Bloggs despite the expiry date on the passport. The passport may no longer be valid as a passport, but it should be accepted to confirm who I am.
> 
> Sometimes folk don't travel much and don't keep paperwork up to date because they don't anticipate needing it, and then a sudden death or other disaster strikes where they may need to catch a train at short notice.
> 
> Ed


I think one issue is that there are some people who sell their photo ID for fraudulent use by someone else. Or one person allows a photo ID to be used by a relative who may look similar. Someone with an unexpired ID might have less incentive to sell it.

Mostly the policies on needed ID that is in force have to do with policies in place since 9/11.

For the most part I doubt that Amtrak personnel are sticklers for it, especially if the ID has only recently expired.


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## BCL (Jan 10, 2014)

leemell said:


> My wife and I have about 30,000 miles on Amtrak and around the country at least twice and have never been asked for ID. I think the risk is small but not non-existent.


The only times I've ever been asked for ID were when I was asking to cancel a reservation and request an eVoucher. The other time was when I showed my 10-ride ticket at the Emeryville statiion to ask for a parking permit. I've never been asked for ID onboard a train, except when I used a credit card.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 10, 2014)

leemell said:


> My wife and I have about 30,000 miles on Amtrak and around the country at least twice and have never been asked for ID. I think the risk is small but not non-existent.


Definitely not non-existent. I've rarely been asked for ID, but was asked the last time I rode the CS ...and I was only on the train for one stop, and I had

an 18-month-old lap child with me at the time! So you just never know.


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## SubwayNut (Jan 10, 2014)

I have the ultimate lost ID story and not getting asked:

Last summer I did an AGR Rommette "bucket list" points run Phoenix-Flagstaff-LA-Portland-Minneapolis and then back home to New York on paid Amtrak tickets (with 8 segments by maximizing stops for points)

When I was in Flagstaff trying to have a beer with my dinner on my Shuttle van to Southwest Chief layover I got ID (I'm young) and realize my DL was nowhere in my wallet and the last time I remembered having it was two weeks earlier when I bought a walk up Amtrak ticket in Stockton.

I realized the only thing I had was a scan of my license on my computer. I managed to make it all the way home (including drinking the Califronia champagne and at the 3 Amtrak wine tastings and winning a bottle at trivia) without an ID check. The attendants did seriously say when they were dropping off the champaign (are you 21?)

I said no to getting my passport fed-exed to me friends in St Paul, I had no hotel nights from my previous Amtrak experience.

I will add that I was a bit lucky since on my very next trip sitting in the Acela (upgraded with a coupon) the scanner randomly selected me and the conductor joked "You win!"


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## JoeBas (Jan 10, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> That IS outrageous! When I moved from NYS to AZ, AZ to NV, NV to AZ and AZ to RI, I just turned in my current (other state's) license and got a new (present state's) license in 3 minutes!


Was that before Nine *GASP* Eleven? *Turrified scream!!!*


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## Shortline (Jan 10, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> One parent crossing state lines with child in tow while carrying questionable ID?
> 
> Maybe everything is on the up and up but this sticks out like a sore thumb to me.


So how far should one be able to travel, without showing documents? Within the state ok, but not across arbitrary state border lines? Distance dependant? I mean, one can travel quite a ways in states like TX and CA, and still be within the state, not so much in Rhode Island. And here I thought you were more along the lines of a person with a libertarian leaning, against a system of governmental and corporate sponsored/facilitated document checks!


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## zephyr17 (Jan 10, 2014)

Crossing state lines you don't have to show ID, and Amtrak's requiring ID isn't dependent on how far you are going or how many state lines you cross. Although the more "segments" you have, you are probably slightly more likely to get tagged by the system for and ID check.

As to the larger question, there are not and should not be any ID requirements just to cross state lines.


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## MARC Rider (Jan 10, 2014)

crew said:


> If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)


What?!

Over the past 10 years, I have been riding using either quick-trak ticket or e-tickets printed at home, and I have been asked for my ID on the train only once. On the other hand, every time I've interacted with a ticket agent, they've asked for ID. But there is a chance that the conductor will ask for ID, but it's a pretty low chance.


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## MARC Rider (Jan 10, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> crew said:
> 
> 
> > If you use Quik-Trak or print out at home, you're almost certain to be asked for ID on the train, and removed if you don't have it (otherwise it could be a stolen ticket, etc.)
> ...


Heck, we used expired passports for a trip to Grenada once. They were accepted by immigration control in both Grenada and in San Juan on the way back. And our 4-year old daughter on;y had a copy of her birth certificate. Of course that was back in 1995 before they got all crazy with the "western hemisphere travel initiative."


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## jis (Jan 10, 2014)

Yeah. Now you will get the third degree if you have anything other than a biometric Passport and you arrive at a first port of entry into US by air. And not only you but the airline that brought you will also get raked over burning coal for good measure.


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## MARC Rider (Jan 10, 2014)

City of Miami said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > If you can wait a day, you can get a DL or at least a state issued ID if you have the necessary documentation. It's almost immediate (you'll at least have a temporary ID), costs less than $50 and gets you what you need. I don't know you or your brother's circumstances, but if everything is on the up and up, the state ID issue shouldn't be a problem. If it IS a problem, all I can suggest is that you take your chances.
> ...


HAHA. For all their posturing, Texas isn't even in compliance with the REAL ID act. (http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/count-down-to-real-id.aspx)

In fact, back in 2006, before you needed passports for land crossings between the US and Canada/Mexico, I once spent the evening in a Mexican border town across from Texas. On my return to the US, the 'migra lady was very impressed with my Maryland driver's license with its hologram and other features designed to make it harder to forge, She told me that Texas licenses were junk compared to the Maryland ones. I got my first Maryland license in 1979 on the basis of a non-photo Pennsylvania license first issued in 1970. For that one, I think I did have to show a birth certificate, but, of course, birth certificates have no biometric information at all.

My favorite crossing story was on a different trip that year. The 'migra man was fine with my Maryland license, but instead of asking me my reason for traveling to Mexico, he asked me what the hell I was doing in Texas!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 11, 2014)

Shortline said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > One parent crossing state lines with child in tow while carrying questionable ID?
> ...


In most respects I do not support our government monitoring us or asking for our papers or pursuing any other surveillance state programs against us. However, none of that precludes me from becoming mildly alarmed by a weirdly written post asking a rather unusual question. The unfortunate reality is that children are abducted with statistically significant frequency, usually by someone the child is related to, and time is of the essence when this happens.

I have no idea if the OP is actually up to something, or if the OP is merely trying to get away from something someone else is doing, or if it’s all just a misunderstanding on my part. Each of those possibilities seems equally plausible to me. Out here in the Southwest crossing state lines implies you're on a long trip, but I suppose in other parts of the country it's no more than a grocery run. All I know for certain is that something about that post spooked the hairs on the back of my neck.


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## George Harris (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm with Devil's Advocate on this one. The question is whether the trip should be helped or hindered. She could be trying to sneak off with the child. She could also be escaping an abusive situation. There could be a family emergency at her destination.

As to the asking for an ID, other than at a ticket window, the only time I have had it happen was on a trip from Sacramento to Emeryville. The three of us traveling together (on business) pulled out driver's licenses from two different states and a foreign passport.


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## caravanman (Jan 11, 2014)

The slightly unnerving thing for me is the semi automatic presumption of wrongdoing because someone has an expired passport...

Would it be ok for this parent to take their child on a train if they have a current passport?

We don't have this issue here in the UK, you just buy a ticket and hop on the train. Freedom, no vigilanties, no need to conform...

Ed.


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## the_traveler (Jan 11, 2014)

As for the "reason", while the stated examples may be reasons, another example could be that a family member (husband, father, son, daughter, etc...) is in the armed forces, and OP wants to be at the base/port when they return! I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

And as far as the statement "living in the southwest" it depends where you live. Yes, from SAS, it will be a long drive to go out of state. But if you lived in ELP and went to NM, that is not a long drive (sometimes across the street). A few years ago, I lived in NV and worked in AZ, right across the bridge over the Colorado River. I did that "long drive" each morning and afternoon - about a 15 minute drive!


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2014)

Can I board Amtrak with temporary N.M. state issued I'd?


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## BCL (Nov 5, 2014)

Guest said:


> Can I board Amtrak with temporary N.M. state issued I'd?


Does it include a photo? Should be fine if it does provided it's not expired. Otherwise you might need a second non-photo ID.

I think it's been established that most of the time ID isn't requested to board a train. I've never been asked for ID when my tickets were checked. I have been asked for ID when I requested a paper ticket this morning at a ticket window. I had a reservation number and just preferred a paper ticket, along with a daily parking permit. I know I could have used Quik-Trak, but I wanted a little variety. The tickets printed at the ticket windows are different. They're trimmed by a cutter instead of pulled apart at the perforation. They use a 1D barcode instead of a PDF417 matrix code. They have a beefier font. Also - they seem to be aligned better. My AGR number is always printed across a line on the ticket stock.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 5, 2014)

The only train I have been asked for ID on is the Coast Starlight, too, twice on one trip. There is (or was) at least one conductor SLO-SAC (?) that seems to do it pretty consistently.


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## jis (Nov 5, 2014)

BCL said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Can I board Amtrak with temporary N.M. state issued I'd?
> ...


Gosh! You seem to be quite a ticket connoisseur!  I had never noticed all this, perhaps mostly because I seldom print out a ticket at Amtrak facilities any more.


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## BCL (Nov 5, 2014)

jis said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


There's a lot of waiting at the station and I've got an app that reads barcodes and matrix codes. I also prefer a paper ticket if I can help it. I got bored once and figured out that QT machines will scan a code from my phone or any ticket and allow a new ticket to be printed, and apparently it's all formats that Amtrak uses. As for the paper tickets, I'll just put it out for the conductor to scan without having to prep my phone.

I've also figured out that multiple segments on a ticket will disappear as you use up the segments once the ticket is reprinted. I've had four segment trips printed on two "coupons" and then I got a reprint at QT after every segment. The used segments don't show up on reprints.

I was thinking of maybe trying this at a ticket window, but I'm guessing that the agent might accuse me of wasting time and resources. I've bought a ticket once on a train, and in that case the conductor yelled at me for wasting his time since I answered (when asked) that I usually buy my tickets online or using the Amtrak app.


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