# Discussing Silver Star/Silver Meteor Schedules



## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 20, 2016)

When discussing using Amtrak to connect to cruise lines in Ft. Lauderdale, I saw that the southbound SS and SM arrive in most south Florida stops within an hour of each other. So I'm wondering if there could be more efficient scheduling for the SS and SM.

In terms of the schedules, the SS takes about three and a half hours more between NYP and MIA. The main difference route wise is the SS takes two "detours", one in North Carolina to serve Raleigh and one in Florida to serve Tampa. I think both detours are important but maybe instead of a fast train and a short train maybe they can have one train detour to serve Raleigh and the other to serve Tampa? Then you'd have two trains of approximately the same length rather than making the Star 3.5 hrs longer. Then, assuming the train that serves Tampa be the diner-less car (since they have more short distance passengers from Tampa to/from both Orlando and Miami) you then could let Raleigh have diner service. I'd rather not get too much into the diner debate here (there's other threads for that).

The SM takes 47 minutes (1:26-2:13pm) from Kissimmee to Winter Haven while the SS takes 2 hours, 51 minutes (10:44am-1:35pm). So if you take the two hours away from the SS and add two hours to the SM, you get arrival times in MIA around 4pm for the SS and around 8:40pm for the SM. The train would then arrive in Ft. Lauderdale around 3:17pm. Would that be enough time to make a 4pm cruise? Currently there's no train from the NEC that could allow you to get to Ft. Lauderdale in time to catch a 4pm cruise. I would probably then have the northbound SM leave MIA at the same time and arrive in the NEC two hours later (still plenty of time to connect to the CL and Richmond would be around 6:30am instead of 4:30am) and have the SS leave MIA two hours later to preserve the current northern times.

In reality, it is better IMHO for the first train to skip Tampa. That way if someone wants to take the first train to Tampa they can then take the first train to ORL and the second train between ORL and Tampa. Right now if you take the second train you have to take the dreaded bus to Tampa. Likewise, the northbound the first train should serve Tampa for the same reason.

The other suggestion I heard way back was switching the SM to leave NYP later so you can save a train set by turning the train in NYP the same day. That was the case a few years ago. If you think having the two trains serve South Florida around the same time is another time, that would be another way to do it.

Should we have one train do both detours or split the two detours? Any other suggestions to changing the schedules? Do they need to be changed at all? I'm not 100% sure they should be.


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## jis (Feb 20, 2016)

I don't see any pressing reason to make such minor changes. What would be desirable is to extend the Palmetto south and have it serve Tampa, and perhaps let the Star travel down the FEC or some such. Atlantic Coast service does not need minor tweaks. If anything worthwhile is to come of it it needs major rework with three trains on three different routings.


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## jphjaxfl (Feb 20, 2016)

Amtrak and CSX have wanted to consolidate the 2 Silver Trains for some time since they run very close to each other specially southbound. There been talk of replacing the Silver Star with a Palmetto type day train between Washington and Columbia or Savanah. Removing the Dining Car from the Star is the first step in that directions. There has been a lot of wishful thinking about extending the Palmetto but this will likely never happen unless Florida provides some funding. Brightline trains are the future for Florida and any growth in Florida will be built on that.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 20, 2016)

jphjaxfl said:


> Amtrak and CSX have wanted to consolidate the 2 Silver Trains for some time since they run very close to each other specially southbound. There been talk of replacing the Silver Star with a Palmetto type day train between Washington and Columbia or Savanah. Removing the Dining Car from the Star is the first step in that directions.


Really, just one train serving NEC-Florida? That would be stupider than cancelling the Broadway Limited. If Amtrak had to cancel a train to save money, I can think of at least two if not more better choices.


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 20, 2016)

I've always wondered why the Palmetto went via Florence. As the only city of note is Charleston. While via Columbia adds Raleigh as well. So it should have better ridership. I live on the Stars route and I would miss my train for Florida.

But here are my ideas

1. Reinstate the old Meteor schedule to reduce the consist needs from four to three. Which will push the two trains further apart timewise in Florida.

2. Take the Palmetto and add some new sleepers and some freed from the Meteor and extend it south to Tampa. But leave it on it's current schedule north of Charleston. That would give a night option out of MIA. And a second northbound to Tampa.

3. When the Sunset East starts back up give it an evening run south of JAX leaving around six. Terminate that train in Tampa and an early morning departure from Tampa. Two train sets needed. Plus it gets northern connections from two trains in JAX.

4. Reroute the SM to serve tampa. As with AAF the Orlando-Miami traffic will probably dry up. That now gives Tampa three daily trains a night train, a noon train and an evening train.

Did that make sense


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 20, 2016)

I still don't see why Amtrak would go from a SM schedule requiring three sets to one requiring four.

I think if we have three trains to Florida the third should go through Charlotte/Atlanta (split the Crescent with some cars heading to Florida instead of New Orleans). Then we wouldn't have to run two extra coach cars to NOL.


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## west point (Feb 20, 2016)

It appears that the SM & SS are not meeting the passenger demand to Florida. If sell outs are happening this month what about summer season and Thanksgiving - Christmas ? Both trains IMO need many more cars to handle the load. Tampa actually needs a earlier departure to Southern Florida. Then the many tourists in Tampa could make the many cruise ships.


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 20, 2016)

The problem comes down to equipment. I don't think a run from Atlanta would work well as it's six hours roughly from Atlanta to JAX. Now if it's a new day train from ATL then we could put the night portion on the slow part. But that adds to the fleet south in Florida. But then it could route to the FEC


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## ParanoidAndroid (Feb 20, 2016)

What is the "FEC"?


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## CCC1007 (Feb 20, 2016)

The Florida east coast railway, reporting marks FEC.


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## LookingGlassTie (Dec 30, 2016)

Would it make sense to consolidate either the Meteor or the Star into the other train's route? From what I can tell on the route map, both trains sort of diverge in various places in a fashion similar to the Capitol Limited and the Cardinal (although they both travel in the same general direction). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Silvers originate at NYP, while the CL and CAR originate at WAS.

I suppose it comes down to a balance between providing streamlined & efficient service and serving the most areas possible.


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## CCC1007 (Dec 30, 2016)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Would it make sense to consolidate either the Meteor or the Star into the other train's route? From what I can tell on the route map, both trains sort of diverge in various places in a fashion similar to the Capitol Limited and the Cardinal (although they both travel in the same general direction). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Silvers originate at NYP, while the CL and CAR originate at WAS.
> 
> I suppose it comes down to a balance between providing streamlined & efficient service and serving the most areas possible.


The cardinal originates at NYP


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## WoodyinNYC (Dec 30, 2016)

Freight hosts have claimed that the unreliable Amtrak trains disrupt their scheduled freights for at least 2 hours on either side of the Amtrak schedule. So if one Amtrak trains fouls up the freights for 4 hours, two separate Amtrak trains mess up a total of 8 hours. Bringing the schedules close to each other can make 'double use' of the same spoiled 2 hours on each schedule and 'only' mess up 6 hours, not 8.

So we see the _Lake Shore Ltd._ and the _Capitol Ltd._ run much of the way Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland within 2 or 3 hours of each other. And the same situation in Florida with the _Silvers_. Even the _Lynchburger_ and the _Crescent_ chase each others' tails thru Virginia.

When the _City of New Orleans_ is extended to Orlando, Amtrak will have three morning trains SB Jacksonville-Orlando and three afternoon trains NB Orlando-Jacksonville. If one train could be flipped, making possible same-day go-and-return corridor trips, that could prompt adjustments to all the Florida schedules. Or not.

Then when the Richmond-Petersburg-Raleigh shortcut opens (in 10 years or so?), the remainder of the _Star's_ schedule will have to be adjusted, for sure.


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## neroden (Dec 31, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> Freight hosts have claimed that the unreliable Amtrak trains disrupt their scheduled freights for at least 2 hours on either side of the Amtrak schedule.


To be clear about this, the Amtrak trains are more reliable than the freight trains, and many of the freight companies don't really have properly scheduled trains (CSX certainly doesn't). Day-late freight trains are common, sadly.

The claim is actually different. The claim is that the 79 mph Amtrak train disrupts their *50 mph freight trains* (or 30 mph freight trains, depending on what line it is). The speed differential causes problems. If all the trains are going at the same speed they're easy to dispatch in a line; if some are faster, more complex passing motions become necessary.

It's this which causes the disruption, and it is a real thing. (In addition, the Amtrak trains stopping every hour for a station creates a much more complex speed profile than a freight train running straight through.) If the freight hosts were running 70 mph freight trains it would be fairly easy to integrate Amtrak, even with the starts and stops. But they aren't.

(By the way, this is the reason why the freight hosts prefer it if Amtrak has pull-off tracks for station stops, especially ones with long dwell times. The freight trains can continue trundling along on the mains at a constant speed while Amtrak stops and then starts again 10 minutes later.)

(Also Amtrak is much more disruptive on a double track line where the Amtrak platform is only on one side. For obvious reasons. I've complained about unreasonable demands by CSX many times, but when they demanded that Rochester station have a pull-off track and platform for eastbound Amtraks and a pull-off track and platform for westbound Amtraks, without having to cross eastbounds across westbounds... well, that's actually a very sensible set of demands. Any station project should have those features. I believe NS is demanding platforms on both sides for the new Elyria OH station as well, and it is appropriate.)


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## west point (Dec 31, 2016)

" IF " Amtrak can cobble enough single level coaches together by the time the V-2 sleepers ( diners presumably in service ) the Palmetto could be extended to Tampa and MIA with sleepers. A long scheduled stop at TPA could enable a 0600 - 0800 on time scheduled departure to south Florida serving all cruise ship ports in a timely manner. Then late afternoon departure from MIA gathering up cruise ship passengers.

As well maybe all but one sleeper dropped at TPA ?


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Dec 31, 2016)

I never experienced it but I'm guessing the backtrack of the Silver Star to serve Tampa is kind of awkward. But I don't think going back to the old days when the Miami train and the Tampa train are separate is better because there looks to be a large market for Tampa to Miami.

Ideally we'd have one train serve NEC-Miami, one train serve NEC-Tampa (or NEC-Orlando with through cars to Tampa), and a third train going Tampa-Orlando-Miami only (based on Star ridership of Tampa they would fill a Florida only train) so no backup move is necessary.


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## jis (Dec 31, 2016)

It is unlikely that any LD train turning facility will ever get reinstated in Tampa. It is even less likely if the Orlando -Tampa HSR or even Higher SR ever gets built. So one can forget about terminating any train in Tampa or even dropping off a few Sleepers there at least for the foreseeable future.


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## west point (Dec 31, 2016)

When Brightline gets to Orlando airport then the possibility of extending it to TPA for TPA's rider potential becomes an interesting possibility. Building a separate line following the old proposed HSR line will be expensive.

The obvious solution would be to contract Amtrak to run it to TPA on its present route thru Lakeland. However Brightline's high level only boarding cars eliminate any stops without high level platforms. Kissimmee not possible to build high level since Sun Rail will be a low platform operation. Another track with a high level platform would need to be built at TPA or a separate station that IMO is counter productive.


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## jis (Jan 1, 2017)

Brightline will not be contracting running anything with Amtrak at least in the foreseeable future. If Brightline operates to Tampa ever it will be on tracks owned by AAF.


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## LookingGlassTie (Jan 1, 2017)

CCC1007 said:


> LookingGlassTie said:
> 
> 
> > Would it make sense to consolidate either the Meteor or the Star into the other train's route? From what I can tell on the route map, both trains sort of diverge in various places in a fashion similar to the Capitol Limited and the Cardinal (although they both travel in the same general direction). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Silvers originate at NYP, while the CL and CAR originate at WAS.
> ...


Ohh ok, my bad. I thought for sure that it originated at WAS.


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## CCC1007 (Jan 1, 2017)

LookingGlassTie said:


> CCC1007 said:
> 
> 
> > LookingGlassTie said:
> ...


When it was operating with superliner equipment it did.


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## Anthony V (Jan 4, 2017)

jphjaxfl said:


> Amtrak and CSX have wanted to consolidate the 2 Silver Trains for some time since they run very close to each other specially southbound. There been talk of replacing the Silver Star with a Palmetto type day train between Washington and Columbia or Savanah. Removing the Dining Car from the Star is the first step in that directions. There has been a lot of wishful thinking about extending the Palmetto but this will likely never happen unless Florida provides some funding. Brightline trains are the future for Florida and any growth in Florida will be built on that.


If the above happens, one thing that could be done is to change the proposed rerouting of the Palmetto to serve Augusta, GA (metro area pop. 590,146). This would add another major city to the Amtrak network, increasing ridership on the Palmetto, and would especially be popular in early to mid-April every year when the Masters Golf Tournament is being held in Augusta.


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## WoodyinNYC (Jan 4, 2017)

Anthony V said:


> jphjaxfl said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak and CSX have wanted to consolidate the 2 Silver Trains for some time since they run very close to each other specially southbound. There been talk of replacing the Silver Star with a Palmetto type day train between Washington and Columbia or Savannah.
> ...


I want to keep all the trains we've got. I'm looking to grow our way out of problems -- The cure for what ails Amtrak is more Amtrak.

Growing Augusta into the network is part of any positive plan. But can't we see a whole new train? With or without sleepers? D.C.-Richmond=Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah-Florida. To connect with the existing train line and station at Columbia, we'd need to build 5 or 10 miles of new track to connect the route coming down from Fayetteville, NC, with the new one coming from Charlotte. At Columbia, an embarrassment of choice: to Charleston-Savannah, or to Augusta-Savannah.

In 10 years or so the rebuilt short-cut Richmond-Petersburg-Raleigh will chop an hour or more out of that schedule. The existing nearby but all healthy trains will become better, closer to break-even or operating profit. No need to plan to cannibalize at all.


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## jphjaxfl (Jan 4, 2017)

Anthony V said:


> jphjaxfl said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak and CSX have wanted to consolidate the 2 Silver Trains for some time since they run very close to each other specially southbound. There been talk of replacing the Silver Star with a Palmetto type day train between Washington and Columbia or Savanah. Removing the Dining Car from the Star is the first step in that directions. There has been a lot of wishful thinking about extending the Palmetto but this will likely never happen unless Florida provides some funding. Brightline trains are the future for Florida and any growth in Florida will be built on that.
> ...


If the state of Georgia could provide some funding, service to Augusta could probably happen, however, there has been plans for Atlanta - Athens service during the 1996 Olympics and more recently for Atlanta to Macon service which has not happened either. I don't think the citizens of Georgia are contacting their state or federal representatives to start passenger train service. A majority of the citizens in Atlanta do not even know that Amtrak stops in Atlanta or where the station is.


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## WoodyinNYC (Jan 4, 2017)

jphjaxfl said:


> Anthony V said:
> 
> 
> > jphjaxfl said:
> ...


I'm ready and eager to make plans that completely ignore Atlanta. When they start construction on the new train station, then I will include the city in my plans and dreams.

Anyway, NYC-D.C.-Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah-Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami would surely be an Amtrak L.D. train, not crippled by the 750-mile requirement for state support. Only the segment Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah would be new and unshared with existing trains, helping to hold down costs.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jan 4, 2017)

WoodyinNYC said:


> Anyway, NYC-D.C.-Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah-Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami would surely be an Amtrak L.D. train, not crippled by the 750-mile requirement for state support. Only the segment Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah would be new and unshared with existing trains, helping to hold down costs.


If you can do that, you might as well reroute the Silver Star that route so you can serve Charlotte (along with several NC stops) and Augusta without starting a brand new train. Worst case scenario you lose the stops between Raleigh and Columbia and Columbia and Savannah (assuming they aren't along the reroute) and I've never heard of any of them.

How much extra time would you have to add to the Star to account for the reroute?


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 4, 2017)

Leave the Palmetto alone it's already one of the best performers of the trains. Plus to go to Augusta rerouting to Columbia would eliminate Charleston which generates good ridership as well as Florence.

Leave the Silver Star route alone as well. Augusta is too far out of the way for it to be served. The Augusta-Savannah thru freight I believe takes six hours. And the Columbia-Augusta thru freight takes three hours before NS downgraded the line. It used to be 49 now it's 25.


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## jis (Jan 4, 2017)

Seaboard92 said:


> Leave the Palmetto alone it's already one of the best performers of the trains. Plus to go to Augusta rerouting to Columbia would eliminate Charleston which generates good ridership as well as Florence.
> 
> Leave the Silver Star route alone as well. Augusta is too far out of the way for it to be served. The Augusta-Savannah thru freight I believe takes six hours. And the Columbia-Augusta thru freight takes three hours before NS downgraded the line. It used to be 49 now it's 25.


I agree wholeheartedly and have stated so previously a couple of times.


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## A Voice (Jan 4, 2017)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> WoodyinNYC said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, NYC-D.C.-Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah-Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami would surely be an Amtrak L.D. train, not crippled by the 750-mile requirement for state support. Only the segment Charlotte-Columbia-Augusta-Savannah would be new and unshared with existing trains, helping to hold down costs.
> ...


The idea is to grow Amtrak - expanding services and geographic reach - not just rearrange the deck chairs.


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## jis (Jan 5, 2017)

Specially when the rearrangement to serve a few thoroughly screws the established customer base and pisses them off.


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## Anderson (Jan 7, 2017)

I think there's a case to reroute the Star to serve Charlotte. I do not know how _strong_ that case is, but I do believe that such a case does exist. TBH there's probably an alternative case to run something between Washington and Florida via Charlotteville and Charlotte (e.g. use NS Alexandria-Columbia and CSX Columbia-Florida). I do _not_ believe that there is a case to reroute it via Augusta; in the instance of Augusta the case (IMHO) is to run the train to Atlanta...and I'm not sure how strong that case even is.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jan 7, 2017)

Anderson said:


> I think there's a case to reroute the Star to serve Charlotte. I do not know how _strong_ that case is, but I do believe that such a case does exist. TBH there's probably an alternative case to run something between Washington and Florida via Charlotteville and Charlotte (e.g. use NS Alexandria-Columbia and CSX Columbia-Florida).


This was discussed in the 2011 PRIIA: https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/570/756/2011%20PRIIA%20210%20Report%2009-26-11_final.pdf. They did not mention Charlottesville, they discussed "rerouting the Silver Star between Raleigh, North Carolina, and Columbia, South Carolina, via Charlotte and Greensboro, North Carolina" (presumably the Carolinian/Piedmont route).

p. 73: "However, there is no direct connection between NS’s Charlotte-to-Columbia rail line over which the train would be rerouted and the CSX rail line that serves Amtrak’s Columbia station, and significant investments would be required for equipment and other capital costs."


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## Anderson (Jan 7, 2017)

Yes, I read that report when it came out and that's what I was referencing. I know that nobody has formally proposed a full re-routing of the Star onto the ex-Southern line. The real question about the Charlotte proposal, in my mind, is what it would do to schedules elsewhere along the line? Unless a lot of money went into improvements, you're adding about 100 route-miles by adding Charlotte (as far as I can tell, at least) so you'd probably add about two hours to the timetable (it would probably be more, but (1) Raleigh-Columbia only averages about 45 MPH; and (2) between ongoing improvements between Raleigh and Charlotte and the fact that you'd probably be able to skip a few stops, you might well get the average speed there up closer to 60 MPH, giving you a bit of wiggle room even accounting for slower tracks Charlotte-Columbia). Of course, if you reroute the Star with SEHSR that would cover most of the needed time.

Realistically, the best way to provide such service would probably be a New York or Washington to Charlotte day train operating on the ex-Southern and offering a timely connection to/from the Star. I'd have to play a lot of timetable games to see what would actually work there, though.


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## neroden (Jan 7, 2017)

Anderson said:


> Realistically, the best way to provide such service would probably be a New York or Washington to Charlotte day train operating on the ex-Southern and offering a timely connection to/from the Star. I'd have to play a lot of timetable games to see what would actually work there, though.


Hmmm, so you're thinking DC-Charlottesville-Lynchburg-Greensboro-Charlotte-Columbia? I like it. Won't happen, because South Carolina is not going to fund rail service in our lifetimes.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jan 7, 2017)

I don't see why you would skip Raleigh to serve Charlottesville. And wouldn't you be giving up Richmond too?

If Amtrak can ever fix the mess in ATL, you could easily add through cars off the Crescent to Florida and that would take care of the entire Crescent route north of ATL.


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## Anderson (Jan 8, 2017)

neroden said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Realistically, the best way to provide such service would probably be a New York or Washington to Charlotte day train operating on the ex-Southern and offering a timely connection to/from the Star. I'd have to play a lot of timetable games to see what would actually work there, though.
> ...


Actually, what I'm thinking is [New York-]DC-Charlottesville-Lynchburg-Greensboro-Charlotte alongside the Star being re-routed Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia (and otherwise remaining on the current route). Doing this takes SC out of the equation and moves the connection to a single station in Charlotte (forcing it at Columbia would be a NYP-NYG type mess). IMHO Columbia is a _bad_ place to terminate a train for a host of reasons; I'd take an extension to Savannah or Atlanta or a cutback to Charlotte (Charlotte and Savannah offer crew pooling and Atlanta offers a large endpoint market).

With operation to Charlotte, the "day train" thus becomes entirely a VA/NC affair (I believe both states ultimately do want a day train WAS-CVS-CLT, even if it's mainly an NC initiative) though it could probably get Pennsylvanian-style support if you could show a modest amount of through traffic (and/or run some through cars).


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## west point (Jan 8, 2017)

Instead of rerouting the Star do the following. It will take co-operation from state of SC but,

Extend a connection from Carolinian to / From Charlotte. Star would provide a connecting car(s) to /from MIA that would be picked up at Columbia for a New Haven type shuttle and added to Carolinian at Charlotte


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## afigg (Jan 9, 2017)

west point said:


> Instead of rerouting the Star do the following. It will take co-operation from state of SC but,
> 
> Extend a connection from Carolinian to / From Charlotte. Star would provide a connecting car(s) to /from MIA that would be picked up at Columbia for a New Haven type shuttle and added to Carolinian at Charlotte


The Carolinian schedule does not even remotely match up to the Silver Star for connecting trips to/from south of Raleigh. Besides, even if they did, what benefit would there be in trying to have connecting/pass-through cars for 2 trains with very poor On-time performance? Would just make the OTP of each train even worse.

The Star should get a boost in connecting ridership at Cary and Raleigh when the Piedmont service expands to 4 daily trains, the Charlotte-Raleigh travel time gets trimmed & more reliable, and Raleigh has a new nice station to wait in. At present, CLT to MIA has 1 hour and 5 minute layover to connect to the southbound Star at Cary which is reasonable. However, MIA to CLT has a 3 hour and 50 minute layover at Cary to connect to the #75 Piedmont. Given the Star's typical lateness, a several hour window is needed to connect from #92, but a 3:50 layover very likely turns some possible customers away. Still, four daily Piedmonts will allow for more connection options to CLT throughout the day when the Star is running seriously late. Which in turn more draw more passengers from CLT and GRO.


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## jis (Jan 9, 2017)

Adding many hours to the Star schedule just to send it on a meandering trip through North Carolina will eventually turn it into a two night train, requiring an additional consist or two, which is not going to be very desirable for anyone except for the joining the dots mentality railfans.


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## Anderson (Jan 12, 2017)

jis said:


> Adding many hours to the Star schedule just to send it on a meandering trip through North Carolina will eventually turn it into a two night train, requiring an additional consist or two, which is not going to be very desirable for anyone except for the joining the dots mentality railfans.


That sort-of depends on the impact of removing forced connections versus the impact of adding hours to the runtime. I mean, the train _already_ has a bit of a meandering trip...but there's also a reason I tried to look at options that were as close to "time neutral" as possible with known improvements.

As to the two-night issue, I cannot help but ponder what the numbers would look like for a Boston-Miami train based around 66/67's schedule on the north end. The main con is your NYP time, but Boston is also a factor there. Timing at WAS isn't _bad_...so I guess a lot of this comes down to "what does your Florida schedule look like?" Sadly there are constraints which make a third FL train unlikely.


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## jis (Jan 12, 2017)

Boston is a very small factor except in the pages of AU.  It is very unlikely that there will be a Boston Miami train in our lifetimes if ever.


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## west point (Jan 12, 2017)

Taking a Silver train to Boston requires another train set. That alone is not efficient use of equipment. The 8 car winter limit at present at BOS also would limit any Silver. More over there cannot be another train on the New Rochelle <> New haven ( MNRR ) line until the bridge(s) replacement work is finished in CT because 2 tracks will have to be closed at a time until bridge work is finished. Present Star or Meteor schedules pu the train on MNRR during rush hours.

Now if an executive sleeper is ever reinstated then Attach the sleeper car onto a Palmetto that has been extended to south Florida. Do worry some about northbound connections at WASH but southbound should never be a problem. That way with a Palmetto extended to south Florida just one sleeper needed. And an executive sleeper on its own before Palmetto extended may not be a problem.


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## railgeekteen (Mar 23, 2018)

WoodyinNYC said:


> jphjaxfl said:
> 
> 
> > Anthony V said:
> ...


How about instead of Columbia, Augusta and Savannah, it goes via Atlanta and Macon?


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## jis (Mar 23, 2018)

railgeekteen said:


> How about instead of Columbia, Augusta and Savannah, it goes via Atlanta and Macon?


Currently, the situation of the rail infrastructure around Atlanta makes any additional train through Atlanta on such a route pretty much a non-starter. After the infrastructure has been suitably updated, such may be possible. But still it is not clear that the Star is the right train to clobber even further to do so.


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