# The ‘New’ new Park Car Policy on the Canadian



## NS VIA Fan (May 15, 2016)

After taking a lot of criticism this year, VIA has now posted a new policy for access to the Park Car beginning next year, April 30, 2017 and for the peak season only until mid October

_Access to the Prestige Park Car will be limited to scheduled times for Sleeper Plus passengers. Sleeper Plus passengers will be able to access the Prestige Park car on the following schedule: from 2:00PM until last call 10:30PM, with the exception of evenings upon departure from Toronto and Vancouver where access will be exclusive to Prestige passengers. *Scheduled access times are subject to change._

The rest of the year, Sleeper Plus passengers will have unrestricted access to the Park Car except.....

_A select number of seats in the Prestige Park car are reserved for our Prestige passengers at all times in the scenic dome (year-round)._

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/AMENITIES_ENG.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-amenities


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## Palmetto (May 15, 2016)

This is a little bit more generous to the Sleeper Plus passengers than was the original restriction.


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## NS VIA Fan (May 15, 2016)

I think it a pretty good compromise and no reason for anyone to complain......The policy is now posted.

If anyone doesn’t like it they can travel during the off-season when they can have unrestricted use of the Park Car.


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## Train2104 (May 15, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> I think it a pretty good compromise and no reason for anyone to complain......The policy is now posted.
> 
> If anyone doesn’t like it they can travel during the off-season when they can have unrestricted use of the Park Car.


I don't know how far in advance VIA lets one book, but this probably also means no customers who already paid are getting less than they were promised.


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## NS VIA Fan (May 16, 2016)

You can reserve a year out on VIA so potentially someone could have already booked. But...and I’m just guessing here…..after the controversy this year, VIA has probably made those aware that changes were coming.

Also...on those long 25 car summer consists with the extra diners and skyline domes. Tour group and others just stay within their group of cars and probably never venture to the back of the train. The Park Car just doesn’t have the same allure to all as it does railfans.


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## Bob Dylan (May 16, 2016)

On the Summer consists as was said, it's a Looooong walk to the Park Car for most of the train, so most riders tend to just walk to/from their car and the closest Diner and Dome Car.

Of course they don't know what they are missing on the end of the train!

Question: since I haven't been on the Canadian since the new Premium Service began, are the Premium Sleeper(s) always located next to the Park Car with the Diner close by also???


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## jebr (May 16, 2016)

I know there's a couple of prestige rooms in the park car, and I believe the next car up was prestige rooms as well. I don't remember how close the diner was to them, but I think it was still a couple cars up. This would be as of a year ago (the last time I took the Canadian.)


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## NS VIA Fan (May 16, 2016)

A recent post on another site had this consist (as follows -(back to front) As you can see the two Prestige Sleepers are directly in front of the Park and then a diner (one of three on the train. A full summer consist will also include one of the low level glass-top Panorama Cars along with additional sleepers

Park Car

Prestige Sleeper

Prestige Sleeper

Diner

Skyline Dome

Manor Sleepers (six)

Diner

Skyline Dome

Manor Sleepers (Three)

Skyline Dome (for Coach Passengers)

Coach

Coach

Baggage

F40

F40


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## zephyr17 (May 16, 2016)

They always run at least one Prestige Chateau right in front of the Park year round.


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## Bob Dylan (May 16, 2016)

Thanks for the info guys! I'll stick to riding the Canadian in "off season" unless an unknown relative leaves me a windfall in their will!


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## zephyr17 (May 16, 2016)

It is better in the off-season anyway. Going to go again in November.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 16, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> I think it a pretty good compromise and no reason for anyone to complain. The policy is now posted. If anyone doesn’t like it they can travel during the off-season when they can have unrestricted use of the Park Car.


Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the best dome seats in the park car will be permanently restricted regardless of time or day or season.



Bob Dylan said:


> Thanks for the info guys! I'll stick to riding the Canadian in "off season" unless an unknown relative leaves me a windfall in their will!


Even if I received an unexpected financial influx I see nothing particularly appealing about the Prestige Class service besides artificially improved access to the Park Car. Most of the changes brought about for Prestige service seemed to revolve around converting a classic train journey into a generic four star hotel experience.


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## NS VIA Fan (May 16, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> > I think it a pretty good compromise and no reason for anyone to complain. The policy is now posted. If anyone doesnt like it they can travel during the off-season when they can have unrestricted use of the Park Car.
> ...


What is the best Dome Seat? For me......one that's about 3/4 of the way back but I don't think VIA has said which ones will be reserved.

And why shouldn't seats be reserved for Prestige Passengers? They paid for them. Want unrestricted access? Travel in prestige too!


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## Blackwolf (May 16, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > NS VIA Fan said:
> ...


Aye, could not agree more. It is WAAAAAAAY out of the price league for my meager Civil Servant salary, but at least VIA is _improving_ passenger amenities and experiences. Yes, the prices are border-line absurd, but people are paying them. And they're getting something for the thousands of dollars spent.

Begrudgingly, I can't say the same for Amtrak.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 16, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > NS VIA Fan said:
> ...


It seemed to me that the best seats were those near the front of the dome providing a more expansive forward view with fewer obstructions. As I explained above the hotel on wheels Prestige Class concept does not appeal to me. Not because of the cost but rather due to the nature of the room itself. Based on VIA's changes it would appear I may not be the only prospective passenger who thinks their arbitrary amenity restrictions have become overly compartmentalized. Hopefully VIA will eventually remove the remaining restrictions in the future.



Blackwolf said:


> Aye, could not agree more. It is WAAAAAAAY out of the price league for my meager Civil Servant salary, but at least VIA is _improving_ passenger amenities and experiences. Yes, the prices are border-line absurd, but people are paying them. And they're getting something for the thousands of dollars spent. Begrudgingly, I can't say the same for Amtrak.


Is the Prestige Class conversion actually paying off? I haven't seen anything concrete either way, but the fact that its previous exclusivity is being actively diluted implies it may not be living up to original expectations. I don't need a fancy hotel room on wheels from Amtrak anymore than I need it from VIA. What Amtrak provided during the "Chef Inspired" era was enough to keep me coming back. It's unfortunate they felt the need to reverse course and start dragging their food service back down into the gutter again. Considering they have to report to a Congress this deficient and dysfunctional I guess I cannot blame them.


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## Anderson (May 17, 2016)

My understanding is that, in very technical terms, Prestige has been bringing in a metric shitload of money. Now, there was some accounting gamesmanship (VIA is allowing travel agencies to sell Park Car space up to three years out) but on the basis of a single car per train they sold something like $18m worth of space in Prestige in under a year. There has been at least _some_ chatter of the service being able to cross-subsidize expansions/restorations of other services (bear in mind that even if you break out the $18m over three years you're looking at $6m/yr, which is IIRC something like a bump of 10% to cost recovery for the _Canadian_).

Per VIA's 2013, 2014, and 2015 annual reports here are some stats for the _Canadian_'s performance for each calendar year:
For 2013:
Revenue: $45,252
Expense: $99,807
Shortfall: $54,555
Ridership: 99,171
PPR: $456.30
CR: 45.34%

For 2014:
Revenue: $47,145
Expense: $102,609
Shortfall: $55,463
Ridership: 93,810
PPR: $502.56
CR: 45.95%

For 2015:
Revenue: $51,541
Expense: $98,888
Shortfall: $47,347
Ridership: 89,725
PPR: $574.43
CR: 52.12%

Prestige was basically rolled out for part of 2015 (I was on a train which featured a dry run of it), albeit in a limited fashion (only one car versus two, only for part of the year, and with sales only being allowed relatively "late in the game" for that year). My best guess, frankly, is that full implementation shoves revenue up over $55m/yr, with some qualifications being noted over oil prices messing with the CAD.

Still, in practical terms I think it is almost certain that reducing the shortfall on the _Canadian_ by $8-10m/yr is helping to cross-subsidize the new services in the Maritimes that has been proposed and is probably helping ramp up frequencies on the Corridor as well. That much seems fairly concrete. There's chatter of other stuff potentially being possible as well.

I think I can put this in somewhat more painful terms for many of us: Let's say that we could roll out an equivalent class on several of the Amtrak LD trains. In exchange, we'd lose peak-season access to the PPC (and/or the equivalent cars on other trains)...but in exchange you'd knock enough off of Amtrak's LD operating needs to seriously look at funding a Daily Cardinal, Daily Sunset, and pick up part of the bill for the Sunset East. Yes, I know, each of those projects has its own hurdles, but if you could have that...or you could fill in a few other projects (for example, daylight service to Ohio), would that be worth the tradeoff? Because that's basically what Canada's looking at here.


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## railiner (May 17, 2016)

Have to agree with DA....the front window dome seats are the ultimate "rail fan seats"...next best thing to a cab ride.


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## bobnjulie (May 23, 2016)

My very little 2 pennies....

We spent time in the Park Car during our Canadian trip... of course! We liked being near the back... but I really enjoyed the front dome - where the coach passengers sit. I sat in every dome.... but the Park Car was all leathered out and really lost the charm of the dome we had on the Ocean.... the front dome was more like the Ocean dome. Once we hit Edmonton, we actually parked out in the vista dome since I was in no mode to fight for seats in the dome car.

The only thing that made the Prestige rooms nice was the fuller sized bed.... but we are used to bunks and my husband enjoyed the top bunk!

I really want to do this trip in January or February... preferably during a full moon!


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