# Incident at Hoboken Station



## Ryan (Sep 29, 2016)

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Major-Train-Accident-in-Hoboken-Injuries-Reported-395249051.html

Doesn't look good...


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## amamba (Sep 29, 2016)

Thoughts and prayers for everyone involved in this situation.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/train-crashes-new-jersey-transit-hoboken-station-article-1.2811435

Pascack Valley Line train 1614 failed to stop on track 4, went through the bumper block and into the main concourse taking down the roof and canopy with it. Pretty serious. The first car looks like a Comet V cab car which is mostly in the station concourse.

Station has been shut down including PATH service. Looks like it will take a while before service is restored through Hoboken, which means it will be total nightmare on the NEC and the bus lines and traffic into New York from the west of Hudson for a while.


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

Over 100 injured. Multiple reports of trapped people.


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

Shadows of PRR 4876?


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

TylerP42 said:


> Over 100 injured. Multiple reports of trapped people.


Multiple fire departments are involved with heavy rescue equipment New Jersey Task Force One for emergency has been activated.

I wonder what mitigating measures will be taken to divert traffic away from Hoboken while the station remains shut down, other than the usual cross-honoring of tickets.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 29, 2016)

Is it possible to terminate the Hoboken bound trains in Secaucus Junction and Newark Broad Street? It would take longer but anyone could still get to NYC by only rail with a transfer at either Secaucus Junction or Newark Broad Street and Newark Penn Stations.


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

CNN reports at least one dead.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Confirmed fatalities are now at three. But on the other hand, the total number of injuries is likely to be revised downwards.


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

"There's no way you could get to the engineer." "The train was going way faster than it should of" "the train should of stopped 30-40ft before the bumber" - NJT worker who will probably get fired because I doubt he's supposed to be talking on the news


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

There is report from the inside now that one of the dead is the Engineer. This of course complicates matters a whole heck of a lot since the actual time of death or disablement becomes a very relevant issue.


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## ayezee (Sep 29, 2016)

Granted we don't have all the facts but is this another accident that would have been prevented by positive train control?


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> There is report from the inside now that one of the dead is the Engineer. This of course complicates matters a whole heck of a lot since the actual time of death or disablement becomes a very relevant issue.


A freight engineer on the news said "I saw the engineer. He was slumped over in the cab, someone said he was alive but I don't know"


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

ayezee said:


> Granted we don't have all the facts but is this another accident that would have been prevented by positive train control?


No. As defined by FRA and designed today PTC is not designed for operation on terminal tracks.


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## MattW (Sep 29, 2016)

Yet I'm sure some loudmouth nut job politician will A. Blame the engineer before he's even cold, and B. Blame the lack of PTC. Really hoping for an act of nature as the cause.


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## greatcats (Sep 29, 2016)

I used to work in Hoboken Terminal for many years as the Crew Dispatcher. A former co-worker who still works in that office ( now in another location ) has given me the name of the engineer, who is someone I do not know. CNN just made erroneous remarks that the engineer was not at the point of impact, but at the rear of the train on the locomotive. Totally inaccurate. With a few exceptions, the push pull trains were always arranged with the locomotive on the west end away from the terminal and the cab car on the east end. While I have not worked there in over 20 years, this is very familiar territory and am feeling quite upset.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Redacted. Link did not work.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 29, 2016)

WNBC actually interviewed (via phone) the Editor of _*Railway Age*_ Magazine and he did a great job of explaining the make up of the train, the track layout around Hoboken and the various emergency systems.


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## WinNix (Sep 29, 2016)

TylerP42 said:


> "There's no way you could get to the engineer." "The train was going way faster than it should of" "the train should of stopped 30-40ft before the bumber" - NJT worker who will probably get fired because I doubt he's supposed to be talking on the news


I saw that interview also and thought the same thing. I'm in a fire department and rule #1 with the media is the Incident Commander (chief) either does the interview himself or designates another officer to do it after a private discussion. Linemen never get interviewed. This guy will be in trouble. EDIT: I am assuming the same hierarchy rules apply to the NJT employees regarding media interviews after a major incident. I might be totally wrong.


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## ayezee (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> ayezee said:
> 
> 
> > Granted we don't have all the facts but is this another accident that would have been prevented by positive train control?
> ...


Okay thanks for clarification


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 29, 2016)

Is there anything that prevents PTC from being programmed to prevent trains from running into stations? At first glance it seems like kind of an obvious oversight from a threat analysis and event prevention perspective.


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## WinNix (Sep 29, 2016)

Listening to the press conference now...This info will be roughly random as it is rapid fire and I cannot catch it all. Per Gov Christie - they are expecting to run full rush hour capacity this afternoon. They are running extra light rail. The #126 line will have increased trips. check the NJT & MNRR websites for transit coverage. 1 confirmed dead, 108 injured. Passengers wanting to get west of the Hudson are told to go to either Tarrytown or Beacon. Shuttle busses will take them across the river. All Path service is unaffected. Engineers are actively working on ensuring the structural integrity of the building & electric lines. There is no timetable estimate. When pressed, Christie says it will be at least 1 day, probably a bit more until we have a solid timeframe estimate on repair. Christie says they do NOT yet know why it happened (or unwilling to state it publicly) - the engineer is talking to the NTSB & law enforcement right now. Two reports are asking him about PTC (NOTE JIS' comments above about in-terminal PTC use) and if it played a role. Christie and Cuomo stated that once the cause is known, they will task NJT & MNRR with coming up with a solution to prevent it from happening - the reporters keep asking about PTC. Neither governor is making any solid comments on PTC . Christie noted the ceiling was "old style", and the train took out some key pillars which caused the unfortunate roof collapse. Most but not all injuries were inside the train. The single fatality was a person outside the train, standing near the platform (via the roof collapse).

Another briefing will be held once there are official reports out.


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## greatcats (Sep 29, 2016)

The part of the building that collapsed would be the roof over the concourse, which runs north-south between the main waiting room area and the terminal tracks. Gov. Christie referred to it as an old time structure that was damaged. I do not know if it was completely rebuilt some years ago, but it was modified to include the skylights seen in today's coverage.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

It is a relief to see that the reported demise of the engineer was false alarm. A ray of good new among the bad.



greatcats said:


> The part of the building that collapsed would be the roof over the concourse, which runs north-south between the main waiting room area and the terminal tracks. Gov. Christie referred to it as an old time structure that was damaged. I do not know if it was completely rebuilt some years ago, but it was modified to include the skylights seen in today's coverage.


I believe that the basic support structure was just stabilized with repair of the base of the pillars, but no additional supporting pillars were added.


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## TylerP42 (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> It is a relief to see that the reported demise of the engineer was false alarm. A ray of good new among the bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know if he passed or not. The engineer said he wasn't sure if he was alive or Not, just that he heard someone say they think he's still alive. Details may be wrong. It was a freight engineer who was interviewed on CNN


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## greatcats (Sep 29, 2016)

The reports as of a short time ago were that the engineer is critically injured in the hospital, but is being cooperative. My former co-worker friend advised me that the conductor of the train is OK. ( Gov. Cuomo of New York kept repeating the common inaccuracy of referring to the engineer as the conductor. Sigh. )


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## Metra Electric Rider (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Aerial view of the collapsed roof of Hoboken Terminal
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1776350622652602&set=p.1776350622652602&type=3&theater


JIS this link isn't working (at least not for me anyways).


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Aerial view of the collapsed roof of Hoboken Terminal
> ...


I am removing the post since there is no easy way to get it to work at this time.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Is there anything that prevents PTC from being programmed to prevent trains from running into stations? At first glance it seems like kind of an obvious oversight from a threat analysis and event prevention perspective.


Technically anything is possible given enough moolah. As a matter of regulation it is not recommended in yard and terminal trackage due to very high rate of false positives in such situations causing too much interference in smooth operation apparently. But yeah, sure, if it were required one could figure out something that'd work. However, one has to beware that a train is allowed to operate even on main line at reduced speed with inoperative PTC, and speed limits in yard and terminal trackage is 20mph anyway.

Part of the problem in this case may be that the original cab signal enforced 20mph is not operational in Hoboken for some reason. But this is speculation. We should wait to learn what happened from the investigation.

Actually it is amazing how many false stops and other false enforcement that are happening under ACSES on the NEC. I hear of them from Engineer friends from time to time. There is much debugging that remains to be done even where it is supposed to work.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 29, 2016)

Kind thoughts to all those involved in this tragedy.

The New York Governor is on MSNBC talking about this and he said that only One person is dead and that PTC is being implemented and that " the Conductor"

Would have been helped by PTC.


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## Ryan (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


For what it's worth, it worked initially. Must have been taken down?


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Info in this article, if true, confirms what I feared. While speed restrictions are displayed in the cab there is no penalty in Hoboken for not responding to the notification of restriction. Sigh.... Not really a PTC issue but a cab signal issue.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/system-for-stopping-trains-in-hoboken-antiquated-nj-transit-engineers-say-1.1668956


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Sep 29, 2016)

it seems the train consisted of comet single level cars, probably pulled by an ALP-45DP. The engineer is alive, but hospitalized, but already working with investigators. Best wishes to survivors and their families.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/train-crashes-new-jersey-transit-hoboken-station-article-1.2811435

EDIT: though I was posting a new topic since I couldn't find this one.


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## greatcats (Sep 29, 2016)

Henry- FYI: The train in the accident was a Pascack Valley Line train, which originated in Spring Valley, NY. That is a diesel only line, not electric, as are most of the former Erie Railroad lines.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

norfolkwesternhenry said:


> It seems this morning at about 8:45 AM ET, NJT train #1614 barreled into Hoboken, NJ, at "a high rate of speed". There is one recorded fatality and atleast 100 injured, it seems the train consisted of comet single level cars, probably pulled by an ALP-45DP. The engineer is alive, but hospitalized, but already working with investigators. Best wishes to survivors and their families.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/train-crashes-new-jersey-transit-hoboken-station-article-1.2811435


No it was not pulled by any locomotive. however it was pushed by a diesel locomotive, since it was running in push mode, as are most diesel trains arriving in Hoboken are. Not sure what the locomotive was, but possibly it was an MNRR locomotive since it was an MNRR West of Hudson train from Spring Valley to Hoboken, though equipment is freely mixed between NJT and MNRR.

Incidentally we have been discussing this now for almost 9 hours on this thread.


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## greatcats (Sep 29, 2016)

As I recall from working there, the equipment with Metro North markings is interchangeable and can be found running on other NJ Transit lines. Yes, the train was being pushed.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

greatcats said:


> As I recall from working there, the equipment with Metro North markings is interchangeable and can be found running on other NJ Transit lines. Yes, the train was being pushed.


Indeed! As is obvious, the cab car was an NJT livery Comet V Cab Car that found itself mostly in the station concourse.


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## Rover (Oct 1, 2016)

Excuse my ignorance on this, but do the black boxes on these trains have any video of the conductor operating the train just before impact. And as a side query, do any rail commuter lines operating in the US, have video monitoring of the conductor?


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## greatcats (Oct 1, 2016)

Excuse me, Rover, I don't mean to be rude, but please get your terms accurate. You are not talking about the conductor, but the engineer. You are in good company, however, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo had it wrong at the press conference in Hoboken with NJ Gov. Christie. The conductor is in charge of the train, but does not operate it. (This from a former NJ Transit crew dispatcher. )


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 1, 2016)

greatcats said:


> Excuse me, Rover, I don't mean to be rude, but please get your terms accurate. You are not talking about the conductor, but the engineer. You are in good company, however, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo had it wrong at the press conference in Hoboken with NJ Gov. Christie. The conductor is in charge of the train, but does not operate it. (This from a former NJ Transit crew dispatcher. )


I think I even found an article that refers to both the engineer and conductor as the conductor. One paragraph it says that he is out of the hospital and then a few paragraphs later he is in serious condition at the hospital.


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## jis (Oct 1, 2016)

The press gets it wrong all the time. That is one reason we try to engage folks from the press and try to get them to vet these things through one of us. but often their deadlines are so short that even if they want to, they are unable to since the ranks of the reporters have been reduced to almost nothing and they are given very little time to throw out articles. Whenever we manage to talk to them they usually do not put such bad terminology in articles. But that,as I said, may or may not happen.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 1, 2016)

A couple of items to add that were on the radio news or in the paper this morning (please forgive me if someone posted some of this already and I missed it):

There are two black boxes: they recovered the one from the end car, but can't get to the one in the front yet because of debris, asbestos, etc., making it too dangerous for them to go in. The NTSB is asking the manufacturer of the black boxes to help them decode the one they were able to get, because they are having trouble getting the information from it.

NJ Transit was given a pass on implementing PTC before the 2018 deadline if it would install another safety feature (someone else here will know the correct term and may have the facts down better than the newspaper article did) that would stop a train going into that station. NJT is refusing to say whether it had installed that feature, using as its reasoning for not doing so the current investigation going on.


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## jis (Oct 1, 2016)

NJTransit was a pioneer in trying to get SES, an ACSES compliant system (the PTC system being used across the baord by NEC connected commuter agencies in the northeast) installed on its network since Shirley DeLibero's time. But since then repeatedly Trenton has refused to fund that effort, and here we are where we are. Now the monkeys are all sitting around pointing at each other and refusing to speak about it. Incidentally both Republicans and Democrats are con-conspirators in this implicit negligence in Trenton.

it is interesting that they finally agreed on a TTF funding package (which is where typically funding would be found for such infrastructure capital work) within a few days of this mishap Politicians will be politicians.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 1, 2016)

That's a good point about the TTF, jis. The two front-page articles this morning in the Trenton Times, side by side, were about the train accident and about the TTF, but I missed the irony that you picked up on.


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## jis (Oct 1, 2016)

Here is an opinion piece by Paul Mulshine, about Christie's handling of the TTF situation:

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/09/a_preventable_train_crash_highlights_christies_fai.html


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## Carolina Special (Oct 1, 2016)

Well at least the transportation funding is happening. Too bad it took casualties to get the parties to compromise.


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## Palmetto (Oct 2, 2016)

I hope I don't come across as a prophet of doom, but if one of the Hudson River tunnels has to close, we're going to see a lot of fur flying. It often happens that a catastrophe is the cause of improving things. Too bad.


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## Rover (Oct 2, 2016)

greatcats said:


> Excuse me, Rover, I don't mean to be rude, but please get your terms accurate. You are not talking about the conductor, but the engineer. You are in good company, however, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo had it wrong at the press conference in Hoboken with NJ Gov. Christie. The conductor is in charge of the train, but does not operate it. (This from a former NJ Transit crew dispatcher. )


You are correct greatcats. No rudeness taken, bty. Thank you for pointing that out!

I admit I have been lazy in noting what the titles referred to. I am thankful that I have finally got this straight in my head. That said, any news article I read or watch, I will be wary of the terms used to describe the employees of any train...


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 2, 2016)

Rover said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > Excuse me, Rover, I don't mean to be rude, but please get your terms accurate. You are not talking about the conductor, but the engineer. You are in good company, however, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo had it wrong at the press conference in Hoboken with NJ Gov. Christie. The conductor is in charge of the train, but does not operate it. (This from a former NJ Transit crew dispatcher. )
> ...


It's a curious concept to grasp anyhow. The conductor is _responsible_ for train's movements but the engineer is the one who actually _operates_ it. If the conductor is the one in charge why is he or she _promoted_ into the position of engineer? Never really made much sense to me but I presume that's because my career comes from a different era and background.


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## greatcats (Oct 2, 2016)

I'm glad I did not step on anyone's toes. Yes, the concept of the chain of command is a bit odd. The promotion to engineer, however, makes more sense in that the engineer has the higher rate of pay, or at least used to be when I Worked at NJT.

Meanwhile, I feel terrible for that engineer. While I did not know him, he seems like a good and conscientious man. I don't want to speculate too much here, but I know the arrangement of those assignments. He lives about 50 miles from Spring Valley, NY and those jobs encompass 12 to 14 hours or more. Long, long day, even with the at least 4 hour swing( break ) in assignments of this nature.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 2, 2016)

Apparently one of two event recorders was not functioning during the trip in question. The status of the other recorder is currently unknown. According to the NTSB the current rules state that only the lead locomotive or cab car must have a working event recorder functioning properly during active commercial operations. PTC was not discussed in detail but the NTSB did take a moment to acknowledge that even with PTC not all accidents can be prevented. Personally I think preventing a train from plowing into an active passenger station is probably worth adding to the PTC requirements in the future, perhaps as part of a Phase 2 or 3 sometime down the road, but for now I'm thinking a directive from the FRA to inspect all passenger train event recorders from the 1990's and earlier might be worth considering.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 2, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Apparently one of two event recorders was not functioning during the trip in question. The status of the other recorder is currently unknown. According to the NTSB the current rules state that only the lead locomotive or cab car must have a working event recorder functioning properly during active commercial operations. PTC was not discussed in detail but the NTSB did take a moment to acknowledge that even with PTC not all accidents can be prevented. Personally I think preventing a train from plowing into an active passenger station is probably worth adding to the PTC requirements in the future, perhaps as part of a Phase 2 or 3 sometime down the road, but for now I'm thinking a directive from the FRA to inspect all passenger train event recorders from the 1990's and earlier might be worth considering.


Informative clip. A functioning event data recorder needs to be on the head end (loco or cabcar). I'm guessing there is no requirement for the trailing loco to have a functioning recorder (by functioning, I mean powered on).


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## Rover (Oct 3, 2016)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-box-recovered-nj-transit-wreck-recorded-no-information-article-1.2814884



> The front end of the train has another, newer recorder which investigators hope was working, but they have not yet been able to get at it because of safety concerns in the mangled front end of the train.
> 
> He said he started his shift at 6:46 a.m. that morning and felt “fully rested,” had his turned off cell phone stored in his backpack, and successfully conducted a required brake test at the beginning of the train’s run.





> The engineer of the train told National Transportation Safety Board the train was going 10 miles per hour as he entered the station, felt fully rested and does not remember the fatal crash, NTSB vice chair Bella Dinh-Zarr said at a press conference.
> “The engineer says he has no memory of the accident. He remembers waking up on the floor of the cab,” Dinh-Zarr said.


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## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

FrensicPic said:


> Informative clip. A functioning event data recorder needs to be on the head end (loco or cabcar). I'm guessing there is no requirement for the trailing loco to have a functioning recorder (by functioning, I mean powered on).


The only requirement is to have an operating event recorder in the front unit.

If the unit in the locomotive was merely powered off when it was not working as a controlling unit, that is fine. OTOH, if it was completely inoperative that would be a problem since the train did operate in the opposite direction with the locomotive as controlling unit when it traveled fro Hoboken to Spring Valley at some point.


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## Dutchrailnut (Oct 6, 2016)

more from NTSB, note how it says do not draw conclusions yet ??

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/pr20161006.aspx


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## fairviewroad (Oct 6, 2016)

Dutchrailnut said:


> more from NTSB, note how it says do not draw conclusions yet ??
> 
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/pr20161006.aspx


*The event recorder shows train speed was about 21 mph when it collided with the bumping post.*

That is amazing. Based on passenger interviews, as well as the amount of damage, I had guessed the train's speed would have been closer to 35-40 mph. I did not think it could cause that much damage (and continue that far beyond the bumping post) at just 21 mph. Yeah, I know....physics and all. But still...


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## Dutchrailnut (Oct 6, 2016)

also note 38 seconds before crash train speed was down to 8 mph , so basically already entering platform area.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 6, 2016)

Dutchrailnut said:


> also note 38 seconds before crash train speed was down to 8 mph , so basically already entering platform area.


Very interesting! So when you consider that the train accelerated from 8-21 mph entering the Station and the engineer says he doesn't remember what happened it almost certainly had to be either mechanical failure or human error! 
Well see when the NTSB Report comes out which it was!


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## neroden (Oct 6, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Rover said:
> 
> 
> > greatcats said:
> ...


Conductor was a separate craft from engineer. The conductor is, in a real sense, management, and engineer is not. But the engineer position was more popular -- go figure. This led to the weird idea of a conductor being "promoted" to engineer -- it's not really a promotion, but lots of conductors wanted to be engineers and NOT vice versa. Conductors in the early 19th century had vast authority -- basically considered the same as the captain of a ship -- and in fact, they still do, but since they're in contact with the dispatcher most of the time, they don't normally exercise that authority since the dispatcher has more authority over most things. Back in the days before telegraphs, the conductor's authority was much more significant.

The conductor is the one with authority to throw people off the train; with authority to allow people *on* the train without tickets when it seems necessary; the authority to order the train to move; the authority to order the train not to move; the authority to throw the engineer off the train (actually read about one incident of this when the engineer had violated a rule); the authority to kick police officers off the train (yep), to search passengers' rooms, and generally to make *decisions* about the train. This authority is less obvious with respect to train movement because of dispatch and signalling, but for example, if the train might need to be stopped due to something happening on board (rather than a mechanical defect in the locomotive), it is up to the conductor whether to stop it.


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## greatcats (Oct 6, 2016)

Good post- In the case of commuter trains, it is not inaccurate to say that some conductors want to be promoted to engineer to get away from the evil passengers!


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 13, 2019)

Here are a couple of updates: It Metro-north seems is covering the liability for their passengers from New York State. 


https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/11/...ken-train-crash-gets-15m-from-nj-transit.html



> Woman injured in Hoboken train crash gets $1.5M from Metro North
> 
> The New Jersey Law Journal first reported the Metro North settlement with......who sued the agency and Metro North. (NJ Transit runs Metro North west of the Hudson River commuter service under a contract.)
> 
> ...


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 13, 2019)

The engineer involved in the collision has been reinstated to his position.

https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/09/...al-hoboken-train-crash-gets-his-job-back.html

Engineer with sleep apnea who caused fatal Hoboken train crash gets his job back

Please allow a brief fair use quote.



> By Larry Higgs | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
> The engineer who was operating an NJ Transit train that crashed in Hoboken Terminal in September 2016, killing a woman walking through the station and injuring 108, will return to work after winning an appeal.
> 
> Thomas Gallagher, who blacked out at the controls on Sept. 29, 2016, due to undiagnosed sleep apnea, won his arbitration case on Aug. 28 and will be reinstated as an engineer, as long as he meets medical conditions and continues sleep apnea treatment. He was suspended and subsequently fired after the crash, a decision that he appealed.



They say he will be confined to the yard but I don't know if that will hold up if NJT doesn't have a "yard engineer" position.



> Gallagher will resume his duties working in train yards, but will not be in passenger service, the board ruled. While he isn’t banned from operating trains with passengers on board, arbitrators left that decision up to NJ Transit. Agency officials must be satisfied Gallagher has “demonstrated strict compliance with the conditions of his reinstatement.”
> 
> 
> “While NJ Transit opposed the reinstatement of Mr. Gallagher, we are required to comply with the legal decision made by the arbitrator. Under provisions clearly defined in that decision, NJ TRANSIT can and will restrict his duty to non-passenger trains,” said Nancy Snyder, a spokeswoman. “The decision lays out rigorous testing and compliance that Mr. Gallagher must adhere to including training and re-certification for operating a locomotive as well as strict medical oversight.”
> ...



Best I knew, even the engineers in yard service were passenger engineers, that are holding yard assignments. 

Any ideas, @Dutchrailnut?


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## Dutchrailnut (Nov 17, 2019)

They usually are all unrestricted passenger Engineer, but can be company restricted to yard service only. it would take concessions by Union to protect such a job from not being bumped by a senior man. 
and they will usually have a exit clause as to, if restricted Engineer is required to run a train outside that restriction his punishment will be commuted.


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## Anderson (Nov 17, 2019)

Dutchrailnut said:


> They usually are all unrestricted passenger Engineer, but can be company restricted to yard service only. it would take concessions by Union to protect such a job from not being bumped by a senior man.
> and they will usually have a exit clause as to, if restricted Engineer is required to run a train outside that restriction his punishment will be commuted.


Given the type of train, so would any passengers who ride it...

*rimshot*


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