# Duluth, MN



## David Beard (Oct 13, 2008)

Just a quick note -- I'd love to see Amtrak involved in the proposed Duluth-Superior to Minneapolis passenger rail.


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## WICT106 (Oct 15, 2008)

They might have no other choice -- technically speaking, the most direct routes available between the Twin Ports and the Twin Cities cross state lines. BNSF and the other Class One railroads have stated that the NRPC ( aka Amtrak ) is the only entity that they will grant permission to operate passenger rail across state lines.


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## zoltan (Oct 17, 2008)

I guess, then, that the way the MARC manages to get away with traveling into West Virginia is that the owner of the tracks, CSX, also nominally operate the trains.


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## George Harris (Oct 17, 2008)

zoltan said:


> I guess, then, that the way the MARC manages to get away with traveling into West Virginia is that the owner of the tracks, CSX, also nominally operate the trains.


This service predates the formation of Amtrak by over 50 years - maybe as much as 100 years. It is a long standing commuter service operated by the Baltimore and Ohio long before Amtrak, CSX, etc. were even thought up.


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## George Harris (Oct 17, 2008)

To add: There are several interstate commuter setups in the eastern states.

New Jersey Transit gets into both Pennsylvania and New York

The Virginia side commuter service into Washington operates in both Virginia and DC, and this is a start up since Amtrak began.

Don't some of the Chicago lines have their end terminals in Wisconsin?

New Mexico Railrunner has bought / is buying the ex ATSF main to as far as Trinidad Colorado.

Duluth Superior to Minneapolis St Pau would be classifed as a long distance train in the same sense that most of the corridor trains are considered to be long distance trains, not a commuter train.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Oct 18, 2008)

And then Metro North has Connecticut paying New York to run trains into Connecticut, and the MBTA goes to Providence RI, but these services do not operate over tracks owned by freight railroads. Then again, I'm not sure the NJT services George Harris mentions operate on freight tracks, either.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 18, 2008)

NJ Transit and Metro North own most of their lines. NJ Transit crosses state lines on the Port Jervis and Spring Valley lines, as well as on the Northeast Corridor. The Port Jervis line is owned by Norfolk Southern, but Metro North leases it, so it's their line (they also have the option to buy it). NJ Transit owns the Spring Valley line outright. Amtrak owns the Northeast corridor. The class I roads have no say in any of this. The only company who could possibly object is Amtrak, and they obviously don't.

Metro North crosses state lines only on the Northeast Corridor, that section of which they own. No company can object any more than whining about them operating trains across state lines on their own tracks.

I dunno about the others.


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## AlanB (Oct 18, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> The Port Jervis line is owned by Norfolk Southern, but Metro North leases it, so it's their line (they also have the option to buy it).


IIRC, they've already exercised that option and now own it outright.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 18, 2008)

Then Wikipedia is outta date.


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## sechs (Oct 19, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Then Wikipedia is outta date.


Then fix it.


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## zoltan (Oct 19, 2008)

I'm sure I recall there being odd politics around the NJ Transit lines running into New York, including some contracts with Metro-North and them running some trains, or something such.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Oct 19, 2008)

There are a couple lines that are technically Metro-North Lines that run into Hobbokken on their south end, and upstate New York on the north end, which are operated by NJT.


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## John Bredin (Oct 20, 2008)

George Harris said:


> Don't some of the Chicago lines have their end terminals in Wisconsin?


There's one Metra line into Wisconsin: the Union Pacific North to Kenosha, WI. However, UP operates the trains on that line (and the two other ex-C&NW lines) under contract for Metra.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 9, 2008)

The Midwest High Speed Rail people seem to think that bus service along that route is just fine. I'm not sure I agree with them.


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## syntaxfactory (Nov 10, 2008)

Bus service as it exists now is inadequate; two buses daily, one that takes four hours to go 130 miles, and one that takes 2.5 hours making no stops. It misses the viability of the proposed route with stops in Superior and Hinckley (Casino).

Plus, it never connects with Amtrak eastbound. This is my bane!


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## zoltan (Nov 11, 2008)

syntaxfactory said:


> Bus service as it exists now is inadequate; two buses daily, one that takes four hours to go 130 miles, and one that takes 2.5 hours making no stops. It misses the viability of the proposed route with stops in Superior and Hinckley (Casino).
> Plus, it never connects with Amtrak eastbound. This is my bane!


That bus is everything that's wrong with thruway buses; the train seems to have been an afterthought in planning its schedule.

No, that bus is not adequate for anything, and buses don't get people out of cars, whereas rail does, and it's sad that a pro-rail group becomes indifferent to rail when a project other than the one they want is mentioned.


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