# Minimum turn around Time in Toronto



## Qbar (Feb 22, 2019)

Hoping someone knows the answer to this question....regardless of how late the via rail Canadian pulls into Toronto, what is the minimum time it needs to spend there for servicing and cleaning?  thanks.


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## Urban Sky (Feb 23, 2019)

I unfortunately can't answer operational questions, but Train 2 has arrived in Toronto at 19:54 and Train 1 is currently expected to depart at 01:30, tonight, so don't forget to check later tonight to verify how long the turnaround took...


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## cubeguide (Feb 24, 2019)

I’m sorry, I can’t find any information to that. I tried looking it up but all I found were random topics on VIA Rail.


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## Qbar (Feb 24, 2019)

So I'm on the train now...we got out pretty close to 130 as forcast.  asked around in the lounge, staff generally said depends.  our turn around time tonight was 5 1/2 hours which one person said was quite fast. Shrug, I realize its dependant on so many factors, but I thought the "target" answer would be easier to find.oh well.  I got here, we left, that's the important part.  Thanks for your help!


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## GBNorman (Feb 25, 2019)

From Hilton Suites Glades Rd Boca Raton--

I think it is time for VIA to accept that The Canadian simply hasn't got a schedule - and "it gets there when it gets there".

JRR heard this at Lunch yesterday. But here goes at the Forum.

The Canadian has four departures each way per month. Let's call them A,B,C,D Passengers would book, say,  #1-B Westward from, say, Toronto. VIA would contact the booked passengers. "Robo-Texts and Robo-Calls have to be good for something". There would be contact when a 48hr window was sort of firm. Another at 24hrs "getting firm" and finally one "firm" with expected time of departure. Passengers would then make their arrangements to get to the train station.

This lack of timekeeping is only going to hurt business. What if a tour package wholesaler is putting something together using overseas flights, The Canadian, and throw in a cruise.

Thoughts, anyone?


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## jebr (Feb 25, 2019)

That basically destroys the Canadian for being used for any sort of essential transportation. If you can't even schedule a 24-hour window in advance when the train will depart, then it really can't serve as any sort of transportation purpose.

Even for tour cruises, flights aren't terribly cheap/easy to book in a group if you don't have firm dates that you need them for. There's no practical way for a tour operator to book a flight or a room block when they don't know what day to expect the train to leave until few days in.

If the problem is not having spare consists, it'd be best to solve that by having spare consists at both Toronto and Vancouver so that the turning of the train has a multiple-day window. Having a firm time out is important, and I think it'd be much more practical to simply have the consists sit longer and have lots of buffer for them to turn than to try and push them more but not have a solid window when they're going to depart.


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## cpotisch (Feb 25, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> The Canadian has four departures each way per month


The Canadian has 8-13 departures each way per month.


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## GBNorman (Feb 25, 2019)

Two a week times four weeks per month makes eight.


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 25, 2019)

The problem with the Canadian is not the lack of a protect set. It's Canadian National. To display this perfectly here is an example. 

Every winter in February/March there is a group of retired and current railroad professionals (executives, car owners, RR owners, and managers) known as the Moonlighters. They travel on the full moon so they have good window visibility at night. Every year his train runs with the majority of its passengers as part of the informal group. It's gotten so big in recent years it's been the size of a summer Canadian. 

Somebody in the group is well connected at Canadian National so this one departure manages to sail across the country on time every time. 

So the moral of the story is it can be done CN just has to be willing to play ball. VIA keeps giving into their demands and gets nothing for it. 

The only other option is to reroute the train off CN on to the CP which would allow it to pick up quite a few larger cities on the way. But I don't know how busy that route is and Rocky Mountaineer would balk. Fix CN and you fix the Canadian.


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## cpotisch (Feb 25, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> Two a week times four weeks per month makes eight.


But it runs thrice-weekly during peak season, during which it makes up to 13 runs in each direction in a 31 day month. Hence, 8-13. Either way, that's a far cry from "four departures in each direction per month". Still not a very usable schedule, but it's not nearly that bad.


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## jis (Feb 25, 2019)

cpotisch said:


> But it runs thrice-weekly during peak season, during which it makes up to 13 runs in each direction in a 31 day month. Hence, 8-13. Either way, that's a far cry from "four departures in each direction per month". Still not a very usable schedule, but it's not nearly that bad.


It does not run  thrice a week all the way. It runs only twice for its entire length even during peak season this year. There is a truncated Vancouver - Edmonton AFAIR, once a week, in addition to the twice a week Vancouver - Toronto. Interestingly the days of operation of the twice a week changes with the changeover between April 29 and May 2 from the winter to summer timetable.

https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/winter2018/40-41_Toronto-Winnipeg-Jasper-Vancouver.pdf

So it is fair to say it has 8 or 9 full length run and 4 or 5 Edmonton run from Vancouver. I suspect depending on how things go they will either get rid of the Edmonton short turn or get rid of one of the twice a week frequency for Toronto in a few years, as equipment availability dwindles.


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