# Greyhound Kills Overbooking, Expands Service, Introduces Yield Mgmt



## Swadian Hardcore

*Here's the latest confirmed news on Greyhound:*


No more overbooking on any US schedules, excluding Casino services and codeshare services.
91% OTP to a 30-minute standard (US and Canada?)
Expanded long-distance and ultra-long-distance service.
More ultra-long-distance routes to connect faraway hubs.
Yield Management introduced.
Web Only Fare is now the cheapest instead of Advance Purchase Fare.
Standard Fares still very high to discourage buy-ticket-and-go customers.
Same-day bookings are now very high even when booking online.
_Changes not made to Greyhound Canada booking system, this is Greyhound US only, unless otherwise noted._
Restrooms cleaned up, got some shots from my latest ride, no odor, retention toilets. I assume Greyhound Canada still cleaned the restrooms.
*Unconfirmed news:*
Greyhound cancelled 50 D4505's in favor of X3-45's.
Greyhound ridership went up 25% from 2009.
*A few examples of expanded service (increased frequencies):*
Denver-Portland
Denver-Las Vegas
Denver-El Paso
New York-Denver
New York-Atlanta
New York-Montreal
Atlanta-Cincinnati
Atlanta-Miami
Dallas-Los Angeles
Dallas-Chicago
Chicago-Memphis
Chicago-Minneapolis
Seattle-Vancouver
Seattle-Portland
San Francisco-Reno
_And some more....._
*New Routes:*
Chicago-Los Angeles
Los Angeles-Seattle
Los Angeles-Vancouver
Memphis-New Orleans
New York-Los Angeles
Saint Louis-Los Angeles
Dallas-Detroit
*Discontinued routes:*
Chicago-Detroit (still has through service Chicago-Toronto)
*Edited updates (June 30th, 2014):*
Apparently Greyhound Canada also got rid of overbooking, but still no yield management.
Wi-Fi is now available on all regularly-assigned Greyhound buses, must be entirely Carrier "GLI" or "GLC", and excludes 9000-series run numbers.
Power outlets are now available on all regularly-assigned Greyhound buses, must be entirely Carrier "GLI" or "GLC", and excludes 9000-series run numbers.
*The Carrier is displayed in "Schedule Details" when booking online. It is very important, because it tells you which company operates the bus.*Regularly-assigned buses may be supplemented by reserve buses when loads are high.

Yesterday, June 25th, 2014, Greyhound introduced their new System Timetable, with the above changes.


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## amtrakwolverine

Chicago to detroit is still bookable in july so that route is not cancelled.


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## jebr

There's no routes, however, that start or end in Detroit. All of their routes are either coming from or continuing onto Toronto.


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## Swadian Hardcore

See, my note says there's still Chicago-Toronto through service, which obviously pass through Detroit/Windsor, the quickest way. But the "Chicago-Detroit" route has been cancelled. Not sure why, but only the through schedules are left.

There are, of course, plenty of routes starting from or ending in Detroit. Like Detroit-Grand Rapids., Detroit-Lansing, or Detroit-Muskegon, for some short-haulers, long-haul examples are even more varied, like Detroit-New York, Detroit-Dallas, Detroit-Atlanta, etc. It's just that Greyhound killed the route _from _Detroit _to _Chicago and vice versa. There's still the route from Toronto to Chicago and vice versa, _stopping_ in Detroit along the way.

I know, it's confusing unless you have a System Timetable.


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## Anderson

Swadian,

From what you're saying, it seems possible that Greyhound just extended the buses terminating at Detroit to Toronto, given the large amount of other expansions to service.


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## NorthShore

Is it possible to obtain a system timetable somewhere?


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## Swadian Hardcore

Anderson, no they did not extend to route to Toronto. You can still access the old System Timetable for the time being, all the current Chicago-Toronto schedules were in that timetable _and_ additional Chicago-Detroit schedules. Now the Chicago-Detroit schedules are gone and only the Chicago-Toronto schedules remain.

Here's the US System Timetables: http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/schedules2/pageset.html. WARNING: "System Map" is utterly outdated! For example, Greyhound no longer serves Omaha or Des Moines.

Doesn't really matter, they still serve the route with through buses anyway. Just the customs at the border, that's the problem. But Detroit-Dallas is really interesting, it's another Limited stopping only at major stations. Much faster than the Los Angeles-Vancouver Limited.


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Doesn't really matter, they still serve the route with through buses anyway. Just the customs at the border, that's the problem.


That is, a major problem.....Having or adding thru international service on a route such as Chicago-Detroit-Toronto, is all well and good, but the border delay is a big issue, with sometimes very lengthy delays. This will kill some business on the domestic portion of the route, as the reliability falls away.....

I think they should have some trips that originate in Detroit, destined to Chicago, that can always leave on schedule.....

The New York-Buffalo-Toronto route is a much busier corridor, and is fortunate that it can support both international and wholly domestic trips on that route....


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## railiner

NorthShore said:


> Is it possible to obtain a system timetable somewhere?


Generally, only online....in the link Swadian has supplied. They do publish a system timetable book for employees, but they are getting rarer and harder to obtain, even for employees. I suspect that they intend to eliminate even those, and rely on online only, in the future.

I tried to access that link from my phone....you can, but if you try to click on one of the table numbers in the index, it won't work, as they are PDF files, which my phone, at least, cannot seem to open......


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## Long Train Runnin'

Wow Bus 1651 New York To LA that has to be some trip! Swadian I would have to ask your way more informed opinion, but do you think the same bus runs all the way through? My only experience aboard Greyhound was an overnight bus from Montreal to New York, we stopped once at the border obviously, and then again in Albany around 3 or 4 in the morning. The bus driver had us all get off while he fueled the bus for the final leg to New York City. Would you have a similar experience at each stop along the run of bus 1651?


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## Swadian Hardcore

As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."

Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."

If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.

Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf


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## Swadian Hardcore

OK, for Schedule 1651, I'm assuming it' the same as every other Greyhound long-haul schedule. So, every 10-12 hours, when the bus comes to a major station, the bus stops, gets refueled, and cleaned. The passengers get off for a while, then once everything is done, they can get back on. Not too bad, no luggage transfer required, which is precisely where people lose their bags. The drivers are changed even more often.

Now, 1683 has a typo in the timetable, it says "NYD-DEN", but it's actually "NYD-LAD", just like 1651. Greyhound has twice-daily transcons now. Another typo, 1682, same problem except reverse direction, it starts at Los Angeles, not Denver. And yet another error, 1679 is a Saint Louis-New York, not Chicago-New York. Chicago-New York is actually 1604, on different timetables.

For 1651 and all the other New York-Los Angeles transcons, I think the "Service Stops" would be Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Grand Junction, and Las Vegas. Should be the same bus the whole way, unless there's an emergency. Not sure if they refuel at Indianapolis or Columbus.

Also, they brought down the fares, it was something around $220 minimum, but now $129 if you catch a good deal from Yield Management. All variable now, of course. If you walk up to the terminal and try to buy a ticket, have fun paying $323! That's how Greyhound's filtering out the "bad" passengers and trying to entice the "good" passengers.

But if I were riding cross-country on Greyhound I wouldn't do it in one go unless I have a Free Award Ticket to Anywhere. Instead, I would stop off at Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, and Green River, so that I don't have to sleep on the bus at all. No problem sitting on Greyhound, problems come when you try to sleep. It'll cost quite a bit of cash to do it that way, with all the hotels, but it should be fun, though. Especially since it goes through some pretty good scenery for a Greyhound.

Now I'm waiting to see what type of bus they use. Please, not the new sagging seats!


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."
> 
> Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."
> 
> If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.
> 
> Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf


The Greyhound Lines System Timetable is "lifted" right out of the Russell's Official Bus Guide, and is in fact published by Russell's Guide, for Greyhound. It used to also publish for Greyhound the various public timetable folder's that were common in timetable racks in all the terminal's and depot's, until Greyhound ceased the practice of distributing them. Russell's also published similar folder's for most of the different carrier's shown in the Official Bus Guide. Online timetables have put an end to most of that, but some companies still print and distribute the public folder's.

As for the Russell's Guide.....I haven't seen a late edition of that for about three or four years, since my company stopped buying them for the terminal's. Agent's now rely on the GL "TRIPS" computer for schedules. The Russell's Guide, used to be a treasure trove of information for the bus historian and enthusiast, at one time as thick as a Manhattan phone book, but in the last few years a sad fraction of those glory years. They used to come out monthly with up to date schedules, and there was a semi-annual supplement for timetable index maps, and also a thorough directory of all depot's in cities of approximately 10,000 or more population. This also contained other useful info like finding service to suburb's, national parks, military bases, etc....

I used to collect them monthly from around 1968, when I got started in the business, until 1989, when I had to move, and get rid of all but a dozen or so. I started saving them again in 1994, until recently. I also have a 1944 and a 1959 copy that I often refer to, when researching information. The New York Public Library, in one of their specialty branches, has a complete set for research purposes.


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## rickycourtney

While I imagine very few Greyhound customers will take a single bus from New York to Los Angeles end to end... this is a good thing for customers. By allowing buses to simply layover, as opposed to making passengers transfer you've removed some of the complexity (baggage doesn't need to be unloaded and reloaded) and by you make it faster for passengers who are continuing through.

One example is Vancouver, BC to Olympia, WA. Under the old timetable passengers would need to make a 3 hour connection in Seattle, in the new timetable that has become a 50 minute layover. That's much more acceptable.


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## railiner

rickycourtney said:


> While I imagine very few Greyhound customers will take a single bus from New York to Los Angeles end to end... this is a good thing for customers. By allowing buses to simply layover, as opposed to making passengers transfer you've removed some of the complexity (baggage doesn't need to be unloaded and reloaded) and by you make it faster for passengers who are continuing through.
> 
> One example is Vancouver, BC to Olympia, WA. Under the old timetable passengers would need to make a 3 hour connection in Seattle, in the new timetable that has become a 50 minute layover. That's much more acceptable.


There are some other advantages for thru passenger's....once you secure a particular seat, it is yours to keep if you wish, for the entire journey....when reboarding after rest or servicing stops, you may reclaim it, as opposed to getting what is available when you originate or transfer en route...

While true that few passenger's nowadays will travel the entire route, having a "straight-thu bus" is favored by a certain segment of the population (mostly elderly) to allay fear of missing a connection somewhere.....

Another factor of the long-distance thru bus, is the "prestige factor", (now don't laugh), of advertising the extensive routes of the carrier with "exotic" destination's....I recall passersby looking up at the "MIAMI" sign with envy in New York, during a bitterly cold wintry day....


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## Swadian Hardcore

Just look at all the complaints about "lost baggage", "missed connections", and "reissued tickets". All those are gone when you don't have to transfer.

Yes, I remember the "MIAMI" bus coming through Philadelphia. Always felt it was somehow "different" from all the hops to "NEW YORK CITY", "ATLANTIC CITY", "WASHINGTON", and "RICHMOND". Don't remember seeing a "TAMPA" or "ORLANDO" but they may have existed.

Very nice of the New York Public Library to keep an archive of bus timetables!


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## Bob Dylan

I'm not a big bus fan but the mention of the New York to Miami Bus makes me think about the end of " Midnight Cowboy" where Ratso and Joe Buck finally get out of NY (their dream trip) on the dog and Ratso dies as the Bus rolls into Miami!


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## Swadian Hardcore

Midnight Cowboy? Looked up some photos, don't think it's a Greyhound, a GMC Buffalo PD-4107. Greyhound used that bus, but the side says "National". That bus didn't last long at all in Greyhound's fleet, killed by the MC-7 quick. Pretty new in 1968 though, started produced in 1966 if I'm correct.

The New York-Miami had been cancelled a few years ago but it was brought back in early 2013, it used to stop at Philadelphia but now it's just a Limited and goes straight from New York to Richmond only stopping at a truck stop. Hard to believe Greyhound only has one stop in South Carolina on the I-95 routes, Walterboro, taken by the Richmond-Tampa bus.

On the other hand, Greyhound's Detroit-Jacksonville makes a lot of stops in South Carolina, including Walterboro.

I'm hopping on the Greyhound back to Reno in a few hours, will post photos to Flickr, no trip report.


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## MrFSS

Swadian Hardcore said:


> As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."
> 
> Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."
> 
> If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.
> 
> Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf


 I'm not a bus person, but looking at the map for my part of the country I see some blatant errors. Would it do any good to contact them with corrections?


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## Chaz

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."
> 
> Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."
> 
> If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.
> 
> Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> The Greyhound Lines System Timetable is "lifted" right out of the Russell's Official Bus Guide, and is in fact published by Russell's Guide, for Greyhound. It used to also publish for Greyhound the various public timetable folder's that were common in timetable racks in all the terminal's and depot's, until Greyhound ceased the practice of distributing them. Russell's also published similar folder's for most of the different carrier's shown in the Official Bus Guide. Online timetables have put an end to most of that, but some companies still print and distribute the public folder's.
> As for the Russell's Guide.....I haven't seen a late edition of that for about three or four years, since my company stopped buying them for the terminal's. Agent's now rely on the GL "TRIPS" computer for schedules. The Russell's Guide, used to be a treasure trove of information for the bus historian and enthusiast, at one time as thick as a Manhattan phone book, but in the last few years a sad fraction of those glory years. They used to come out monthly with up to date schedules, and there was a semi-annual supplement for timetable index maps, and also a thorough directory of all depot's in cities of approximately 10,000 or more population. This also contained other useful info like finding service to suburb's, national parks, military bases, etc....
> 
> I used to collect them monthly from around 1968, when I got started in the business, until 1989, when I had to move, and get rid of all but a dozen or so. I started saving them again in 1994, until recently. I also have a 1944 and a 1959 copy that I often refer to, when researching information. The New York Public Library, in one of their specialty branches, has a complete set for research purposes.
Click to expand...

Re Russell's Guides I have bugged them about copying and selling some old Guides online--much like Official Railway Guides are--I'm afraid to open the Guides from the 50's -- paper deterioristing.

Russell's CEO is uninterested.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Mr FSS, it's drawn by a single guy, forgot his name, but he's bound to make mistakes. He should be happy to correct your errors, but I don't know exactly who he is or how to contact him. Anyway, which routes are the blatant errors? Greyhound routes in Kentucky look fine to me. Remember, only the grey ones are supposed to be Greyhound, even though some-non Greyhound routes got marked grey.


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## MrFSS

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Mr FSS, it's drawn by a single guy, forgot his name, but he's bound to make mistakes. He should be happy to correct your errors, but I don't know exactly who he is or how to contact him. Anyway, which routes are the blatant errors? Greyhound routes in Kentucky look fine to me. Remember, only the grey ones are supposed to be Greyhound, even though some-non Greyhound routes got marked grey.


 There is a town south of Louisville called Elizabethtown and just south of there the map shows a town called Glenview. On the map Glenview is shown as the junction for several routes. That junction should be Elizabethtown. Glenview is a wide place in the road several miles away from the interstate or even a major highway. I had lunch in a nice RR related restaurant in Glenview today and they assureded me no buses stop in their little town of 150 people.

Elizabethtown would be where the junction would be. My wife's now deceased father was a Greyhound driver for 35 years between Louisville and Nashville. I heard him speak of Elizabethtown being the junction a number of times.

Thanks!


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## Swadian Hardcore

I took a look through the map again, and it seems that the stop is "Glendale", not "Glenview". The map is drawn poorly, but I searched and found that Glendale is only served by Tornado Bus, a Mexican bus company catering to the Hispanic/Latino community.

Apparently, Glendale is indeed a junction for Tornado Bus, they have one route continuing north along I-65, and another splitting to Lexington along Blue Grass Parkway, heading further north to Detroit and Columbus. Interesting to note the only bus service along Blue Grass Parkway is Tornado Bus, and there is no bus service along Western Kentucky Parkway.

Then I did some digging abound Elizabethtown, and the only service through Elizabethtown is Greyhound, north-south routes along I-65, but most buses bypass Elizabethtown, including the aforementioned new Detroit-Dallas route. So it is no longer a junction.

A trove of info about old Kentucky bus ops: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrky.html


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## railiner

jimhudson said:


> I'm not a big bus fan but the mention of the New York to Miami Bus makes me think about the end of " Midnight Cowboy" where Ratso and Joe Buck finally get out of NY (their dream trip) on the dog and Ratso dies as the Bus rolls into Miami!


I remember that scene....I believe he died a ways prior to arriving in Miami, and when Joe told the driver, he just told him to close his eyes, and pretend he was asleep, until arrival rather than stopping the bus on the highway and awaitng the coroner and ensuing investigation... 

That was a great flick...it was the first "Triple-X rated" under the new MPAA rating system, and it went on to win the Best Picture Oscar in 1969.

Speaking of Oscar winners....mention must be made of one of the greatest...."It Happened One Night", a 1934 Columbia release that won Best Picture, Actor, Actress, and Director!

Oh yeah.....Major scene's were set on an Atlantic Greyhound Lines Yellow Coach, enroute from Miami to New York...


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Midnight Cowboy? Looked up some photos, don't think it's a Greyhound, a GMC Buffalo PD-4107. Greyhound used that bus, but the side says "National". That bus didn't last long at all in Greyhound's fleet, killed by the MC-7 quick. Pretty new in 1968 though, started produced in 1966 if I'm correct.
> 
> The New York-Miami had been cancelled a few years ago but it was brought back in early 2013, it used to stop at Philadelphia but now it's just a Limited and goes straight from New York to Richmond only stopping at a truck stop. Hard to believe Greyhound only has one stop in South Carolina on the I-95 routes, Walterboro, taken by the Richmond-Tampa bus.
> 
> On the other hand, Greyhound's Detroit-Jacksonville makes a lot of stops in South Carolina, including Walterboro.
> 
> I'm hopping on the Greyhound back to Reno in a few hours, will post photos to Flickr, no trip report.


Yes, that coach in the movie was a fictitious "National" bus line. It was on the initial Texas to New York City trip, also. If you look closely at the interior photo's, you can see some aftermarket type of lighting fixtures on the undersides of the parcel rack, that may have been installed to facilitate the shooting of the movie...

The schedules between the northeast and Florida are like everywhere, just a shadow of what they used to be in the mid twentieth century. Ever since the Delaware Memorial Bridge opened, all but a handful of New York to Florida schedules bypassed Philly. Back in those days, there were thru services from places like New York City, Philadelphia, Montreal, Portland, Toronto, Boston, Buffalo, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc., to places like Miami, Miami Beach, Key West, Fort Myers, St. Petersburg, Sarasota, Tampa, Panama City, Orlando, Pensacola, Tallahassie, etc......

There were services from all over the the country to Florida as well...even from as far as San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Denver, Kansas City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, ....you get the idea....everywhere....


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## railiner

MrFSS said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the System Timetable, I've seen the printed version once before, there was also one on eBay auction It's the exact same as the online version, pretty much to the letter, except probably no typos. The cover says the same, "Greyhound Lines, Inc System Timetable Includes Schedules for: etc, etc, Effective: xx/xx/xxxx."
> 
> Obviously not a public timetable, but anyone can use it and understand it. It just doesn't have the old cover with the bus picture and the colored letters saying "GREYHOUND TIMETABLE."
> 
> If you want a timetable of every bus route in the US and Canada, check out Russel's Official National Bus Guide. Basically the bus version of the trains' Official Guide. Still published and uses the same table numbers as Greyhound's System Timetable. Not that useful though, it costs money for a subscription.
> 
> Lastly, there's the unofficial US Intercity Bus and Rail Map, not particularly accurate but the best out there: http://www.kfhgroup.com/aibra/pdf/usmap.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a bus person, but looking at the map for my part of the country I see some blatant errors. Would it do any good to contact them with corrections?
Click to expand...

I am not sure if you are refering to Greyhound's timetable index map, which as Swadian has pointed out, is way out of date, or the latter mentioned map....but in the case of the former, it might not hurt to mention it to Greyhound's corporate contact on their website....


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## railiner

Chaz said:


> Re Russell's Guides I have bugged them about copying and selling some old Guides online--much like Official Railway Guides are--I'm afraid to open the Guides from the 50's -- paper deterioristing.
> 
> Russell's CEO is uninterested.


Yes, I agree. The paper is extremely dry and crumble's unless you handle it extremely gently. Too bad the copyright owner's don't see a potential market for a reprint....this would have been a good year to publish it perhaps, to tie it in somehow with Greyhound's centennial celebration....perhaps a Guide from fifty years ago would have been nice...


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> A trove of info about old Kentucky bus ops: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrky.html


Looking at that great map brings to mind a rather rare pooled operation by Greyhound Lines and Continental Trailways between Louisville and Scottsville (SEG), and Scottsville and Nashville (CTL) for a number of years on a once-a-day thru route. In later years, Continental Trailways changed pool partner to Kentucky Bus Line on a slightly different route, Louiville to Leitchfield (KBL), and Leitchfield to Nashville on CTL. In the end, CTL ran all the way, themself, via Leitchfield.


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## Long Train Runnin'

Swadian Hardcore said:


> OK, for Schedule 1651, I'm assuming it' the same as every other Greyhound long-haul schedule. So, every 10-12 hours, when the bus comes to a major station, the bus stops, gets refueled, and cleaned. The passengers get off for a while, then once everything is done, they can get back on. Not too bad, no luggage transfer required, which is precisely where people lose their bags. The drivers are changed even more often.
> 
> Now, 1683 has a typo in the timetable, it says "NYD-DEN", but it's actually "NYD-LAD", just like 1651. Greyhound has twice-daily transcons now. Another typo, 1682, same problem except reverse direction, it starts at Los Angeles, not Denver. And yet another error, 1679 is a Saint Louis-New York, not Chicago-New York. Chicago-New York is actually 1604, on different timetables.
> 
> For 1651 and all the other New York-Los Angeles transcons, I think the "Service Stops" would be Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Grand Junction, and Las Vegas. Should be the same bus the whole way, unless there's an emergency. Not sure if they refuel at Indianapolis or Columbus.
> 
> Also, they brought down the fares, it was something around $220 minimum, but now $129 if you catch a good deal from Yield Management. All variable now, of course. If you walk up to the terminal and try to buy a ticket, have fun paying $323! That's how Greyhound's filtering out the "bad" passengers and trying to entice the "good" passengers.
> 
> But if I were riding cross-country on Greyhound I wouldn't do it in one go unless I have a Free Award Ticket to Anywhere. Instead, I would stop off at Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, and Green River, so that I don't have to sleep on the bus at all. No problem sitting on Greyhound, problems come when you try to sleep. It'll cost quite a bit of cash to do it that way, with all the hotels, but it should be fun, though. Especially since it goes through some pretty good scenery for a Greyhound.
> 
> Now I'm waiting to see what type of bus they use. Please, not the new sagging seats!



Thank you for the detailed reply. I was always curious how such a long haul bus trip would actually work.


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## MrFSS

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A trove of info about old Kentucky bus ops: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrky.html
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at that great map brings to mind a rather rare pooled operation by Greyhound Lines and Continental Trailways between Louisville and Scottsville (SEG), and Scottsville and Nashville (CTL) for a number of years on a once-a-day thru route. In later years, Continental Trailways changed pool partner to Kentucky Bus Line on a slightly different route, Louiville to Leitchfield (KBL), and Leitchfield to Nashville on CTL. In the end, CTL ran all the way, themself, via Leitchfield.
Click to expand...

Is there anyway to find the routing on the Leitchfield to Nashville bus, i.e. what roads it took? My wife is from Leitchfield and in fact, we just spent the weekend there visiting friends and family. The reason I ask is I don't know of any direct major roads, even state roads between Leitchfield and points directly south without going back to Elizabethtown. They may have been what they did, but just curious.

Thanks!!


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## Swadian Hardcore

I'm not sure which route the Leitchfield-Nashville would've taken exactly, but looking at maps I'm thinking they took Kentucky 259 south to meet US 31 West, then continued through Bowling Green to Nashville. Most of those Greyhound routes in Kentucky are gone now. The Limiteds bypass not only Elizabethtown, but also Bowling Green.

I see Kentucky has a lot of long Parkways, why do they have so many Parkways? I remember all the Southeast Interstates have this windbreak of trees. Quite annoying because you can't see anything. Greyhound has really bad service along I-59, nothing between Meridian and New Orleans, or Birmingham and Chattanooga. Greyhound ought to reinstate the New York-New Orleans Limited via Knoxville. Wouldn't need to add stops except one at Hattiesburg. Got to admit, I-59 is probably the most boring Interstate.

The biggest problem facing the bus industry currently may be the lack of accurate bus maps. Greyhound should at least make an accurate map of their own routes. Right now the only way to know which bus goes from A to B is to skim through the entire System Timetable.


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## MrFSS

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I'm not sure which route the Leitchfield-Nashville would've taken exactly, but looking at maps I'm thinking they took Kentucky 259 south to meet US 31 West, then continued through Bowling Green to Nashville. Most of those Greyhound routes in Kentucky are gone now. The Limiteds bypass not only Elizabethtown, but also Bowling Green.
> 
> I see Kentucky has a lot of long Parkways, why do they have so many Parkways?



259 would be possible, but it is one really winding road. I've driven it a number of times and it is a terrible drive.

All the Parkways (some now Interstate numbers) were developed starting in the late 1950's and early 60's and into the 70's. They were all toll roads with 100% of the collection going to payoff the bonds that financed them to begin with. That has all be accomplished, now, and they are all free to use. A nice network, along with the few interstates to make traveling Kentucky very easy.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Too bad Kentucky has a poor bus network to use those Parkways, and a nonexistent rail network. Forces people to drive everywhere. I mean, Nevada doesn't have much, but at least the major roads have buses and we also have the CZ.

I think someone should connect Washington DC and Memphis with a bus route along US 50 to Bridgeport, I-79 to Charleston, I-64 to Lexington, the Kentucky Parkways to Fulton, and US 51 to Memphis. Would cover a lot of ground for very little expense.

I don't see the point of Cumberland Parkway, though, it seems to go from Bowling Green to Somerset and end without any further major roads connecting, unless someone wants to dive sound on US 27 to Knoxville. Or north to Lexington, but that would be better by going through Elizabethtown.

Someone should really start a bus service along the main Kentucky Parkway, though. Same company could also restart the Washington-Cincinnati-Saint Louis via US 50, basically the route of the old B&O _National Limited._ Really surprised at the lack of service from Pittsburgh to Charleston, someone really needs to start a line-haul bus company in that area.


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## the_traveler

A good question to think about:

Why do you *DRIVE* on a Parkway but you *PARK* on a driveway? :huh:


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## Ispolkom

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Same company could also restart the Washington-Cincinnati-Saint Louis via US 50,


Lord have mercy, have you ever driven on US 50 in West Virginia? It's up and down and left and right, and you aren't going to make any sort of good time. There's a reason the National Road went north. If You're going between Washington and Cincinnati, you want to take I-68 throught Cumberland, Morgantown, etc. I've made the mistake of US 50 once, and other than some great pepperoni rolls, it was an long, slow drive, which didn't go through much population.

I'm shocked, though, at the notion of Kentucky retiring tolls after its toll roads have been paid for. Is the ending of tolls there unique?


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## Swadian Hardcore

That's why you leave the driving to the bus driver. For example, people always say the Vancouver-Osoyoos and Vancouver-Calgary drives are really tough. Doesn't matter if there's a bus service, those CDL guys know what they're doing and if the scenery is good, what's the big deal? The more difficult the road is, the more it favors buses over cars. Just like how Greyhound's Whitehorse route is successful in the summer but not in the winter. And the Canadian Rockies bus traffic is picking up since Greyhound Canada is getting rid of their uncomfortable buses. Now I just hope they get the new computer system too, would get rid of overbooking and possible revive bus service in Canada, just like what happened in the US.

Yeah, people say it's the short, quick routes earning most of the cash, but even Reno-SLC-Denver is popular now. Then again, not much suspicious pax on this route, passengers are happy with the buses too, and Berthoud Pass is one tough drive. Every time I see the Denver bus, it has kids on it. Most Greyhound buses in the summer have kids now. CZ ridership should still be going up, too. So just let the expansion happen, the more trains and buses, the more alternatives people have to the old "fly or drive". And Greyhound's getting better and better.

What I'm saying is that, if a road is tough, then relieve the population along that road with a safe and comfortable bus service.


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## jebr

You still need enough passengers on a route to give critical mass, though. Just because a route is scenic between two parts or has a particularly unpleasant road does not mean that bus service will succeed. You still need enough people to ride the bus on a regular basis to make it worthwhile. An indirect route probably won't have much through traffic, so you'll be reliant on the people getting on or off at intermediate points for the vast majority of your ridership. If there's a lot of small towns along the route and not a lot of large ones, you'll probably be struggling for ridership and it will likely lose money.


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## railiner

MrFSS said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A trove of info about old Kentucky bus ops: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrky.html
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at that great map brings to mind a rather rare pooled operation by Greyhound Lines and Continental Trailways between Louisville and Scottsville (SEG), and Scottsville and Nashville (CTL) for a number of years on a once-a-day thru route. In later years, Continental Trailways changed pool partner to Kentucky Bus Line on a slightly different route, Louiville to Leitchfield (KBL), and Leitchfield to Nashville on CTL. In the end, CTL ran all the way, themself, via Leitchfield.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there anyway to find the routing on the Leitchfield to Nashville bus, i.e. what roads it took? My wife is from Leitchfield and in fact, we just spent the weekend there visiting friends and family. The reason I ask is I don't know of any direct major roads, even state roads between Leitchfield and points directly south without going back to Elizabethtown. They may have been what they did, but just curious.
> 
> Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Looking at the timetable from 1 August 1971, they did indeed take a strange route. As in many cases, SEG already held rights on the better routings, so to get around that, they had to be creative.

Here's the stations in order, from Leitchfield south...if you have a good map, you can figure the highways involved...

Leitchfield, Ky., Sweeden, Brownsville, Rhoda, Brownsville Jct. (31-259), Smith's Grove, Scottsville, Westmoreland, Tn., Bethpage, Gallatin, Hendersonville, Madison, and Nashville.


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## railiner

the_traveler said:


> A good question to think about:
> 
> Why do you *DRIVE* on a Parkway but you *PARK* on a driveway? :huh:


You've been watching old George Carlin video's, eh??


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## railiner

Ispolkom said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same company could also restart the Washington-Cincinnati-Saint Louis via US 50,
> 
> 
> 
> Lord have mercy, have you ever driven on US 50 in West Virginia? It's up and down and left and right, and you aren't going to make any sort of good time. There's a reason the National Road went north. If You're going between Washington and Cincinnati, you want to take I-68 throught Cumberland, Morgantown, etc. I've made the mistake of US 50 once, and other than some great pepperoni rolls, it was an long, slow drive, which didn't go through much population.
> 
> I'm shocked, though, at the notion of Kentucky retiring tolls after its toll roads have been paid for. Is the ending of tolls there unique?
Click to expand...

I have travelled over US 50, from coast to coast (not all on one trip), and enjoyed every mile of it. Capitol Greyhound Lines ran it all the way from Washington to Saint Louis, with three daily trips into the late '60's, early '70's. The Official Bus Guide had a "Discover America" byway blurb in a 1968 edition, that promoted sending traveler's on this scenic "Thousand Mile Detour, that only adds five hours to the trip". Agents were instructed to mark the tickets "Via Capitol local route", to avoid passenger's from being directed to the express route via Pittsburgh. I vividly recall the climb up the Alleghenies, and after one ess curve after another, seeing the sign warning of "The Famous Hairpin Curve", a real mountain switchback, like you would see in Colorado climbing Loveland or Berthoud Pass. Then there was the nice rest stop at the Mount Storm Lodge...

All in all, a real nice break from the Turnpike and I-70.

As for eliminating tolls....I recall the toll on the Southern State Parkway on Long Island coming down, the various toll barriers on the Connecticut Turnpike (now I-95), coming down, and the Broomfield Toll on the Denver-Boulder Turnpike coming down....that's about it. Since that time, toll roads have returned to Colorado in a big way....


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## Swadian Hardcore

Again, rural bus services can make money. Look at Vancouver-Osoyoos for one. Biggest town after Chilliwack is Penticton. US 50 service could lose money, could earn money. After all, you have Parkersburg which is about the same size as Penticton, also Winchester, Clarksburg, Chillicothe, Seymour, and Vincennes, all with more population than the other towns along the Osoyoos route. Look at all the other little towns along US 50 where one could stop, add some creative advertising with scenery in mind, there you have a profitable bus route, albeit needing smaller buses, possibly a Temsa 30- or 35-footer, or whatever 40-footer with low fuel consumption.

But remember, I initially said someone should start a Washington-Memphis bus service covering the Kentucky Parkway, then expand to US 50 once they have more money. As for that route, maybe taking the Washington-Charleston shortcut via Elkins would be smart, poor intermediate stops, but can complete the segment in 6 hours all-inclusive. Or for intermediate stops, either US 211 via Harrisonburg or US 29 via Charlottesville.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Railiner, I looked up the Leitchfield-Nashville routing on Google Maps, since my Rand McNally is damaged and I need to get a new one. They took an even more problematic route than the one I thought, the bus would've taken Kentucky 259 to a point south of Brownsville, then continued down Kentucky 101, past US-31 West, all the way to Scottsville, junction with US 31 East, continuing down that road to Nashville.

The reason, as you mentioned, is probably because Southeastern Greyhound took up US 31 West, the best route for making stops in Bowling Green and Franklin. I'm thinking, because US 31 East bypassed all the big towns along the way, I-65 was built mostly along US 31 West, except bypassing Bowling Green and Franklin. That explains why Greyhound Limiteds do not stop in Bowling Green, even though it could generate some good ridership. Only Locals stop at Bowling Green nowadays.

I was always wondering why the Denver-Boulder Turnpike has no tolls, thanks for explaining. Now of course, the E-470 has tolls and the HOV lanes have tolls, around Denver. Wasn't there for a long time.

Reminds me of the Reno-Denver route, it technically takes US 40 all the way, well, Reno-Park City is Interstate 80 now, but after that it's still US-40 until Idaho Springs, and there's only tiny towns along the way, but the route still earns money and gets good passenger loads. Proof that some rural routes can indeed make money, even with a big 45-footer bus.

BTW, Greyhound ad on this page right now.


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## Bob Dylan

Dallas/Ft Worth eliminated the Toll on what is now I-30 between the two cities!

But unfortunately toll roads and toll lanes are now all the rage in Texas, especially in Austin and Houston!


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## guest

Swadian Hardcore said:


> But if I were riding cross-country on Greyhound I wouldn't do it in one go unless I have a Free Award Ticket to Anywhere. Instead, I would stop off at Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Denver, and Green River, so that I don't have to sleep on the bus at all. No problem sitting on Greyhound, problems come when you try to sleep.


If you buy a full fare ticket, can you have it broken up into as many stops and layovers as you want, as long as your stops are on the route and you complete travel within one year? (And would it work on a Free Award Ticket to Anywhere?)


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## Swadian Hardcore

My quote function is not working, but to the Guest, you can't do that, because that would cause overbooking again. Think about it, it's best that you have to ride on the schedule and date exactly on your ticket. If you stay a night and ride the next day's bus, hopping aboard before the actual ticketed passengers get on, then some people might be left off. So you have to book in segments, costs more money in total but not so bad if you catch a good deal with the aforementioned Yield Management, and gets you a lot of places for touring with lots of schedules without having to sleep on the bus.

This is the same reason why Greyhound got rid of their unlimited-travel passes. Back when such passes were available, overbooking was inevitable. People would hop on early in line and leave out the ticketed passengers. Back then you could also ride the next schedule on the same day if you missed your own schedule, without buying another ticket. And Greyhound also had varying bus sizes. This was happening as late as 2013.

What this explains is that Greyhound was never intentionally overbooking, they were trying to offer flexible travel, with flexible bus sizes, tickets, passes, etc., so they just sold as many tickets as possible and decided to add buses to each run as needed. Now it's all organized but inflexible. Now if a bus gets sold out early on, then they plan for an extra bus ahead of time.

Also, it appears Greyhound Canada also got rid of overbooking. Their site now says passengers must travel on the exact schedule and date on the ticket. But just no yield management, and no flexibility. Commuter runs are probably still flexible, they sometimes use smaller buses on the commuter runs.

If you miss your bus and the next bus has a lot of extra seat, the drive will still let you on, unless there is a major city before your destination, when the bus could "top out".


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## tp49

The tolls on I-95 between RIchmond and Petersburg, Virginia were removed years ago.


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> My quote function is not working, but to the Guest, you can't do that, because that would cause overbooking again. Think about it, it's best that you have to ride on the schedule and date exactly on your ticket. If you stay a night and ride the next day's bus, hopping aboard before the actual ticketed passengers get on, then some people might be left off. So you have to book in segments, costs more money in total but not so bad if you catch a good deal with the aforementioned Yield Management, and gets you a lot of places for touring with lots of schedules without having to sleep on the bus.
> 
> This is the same reason why Greyhound got rid of their unlimited-travel passes. Back when such passes were available, overbooking was inevitable. People would hop on early in line and leave out the ticketed passengers. Back then you could also ride the next schedule on the same day if you missed your own schedule, without buying another ticket. And Greyhound also had varying bus sizes. This was happening as late as 2013.
> 
> What this explains is that Greyhound was never intentionally overbooking, they were trying to offer flexible travel, with flexible bus sizes, tickets, passes, etc., so they just sold as many tickets as possible and decided to add buses to each run as needed. Now it's all organized but inflexible. Now if a bus gets sold out early on, then they plan for an extra bus ahead of time.
> 
> Also, it appears Greyhound Canada also got rid of overbooking. Their site now says passengers must travel on the exact schedule and date on the ticket. But just no yield management, and no flexibility. Commuter runs are probably still flexible, they sometimes use smaller buses on the commuter runs.
> 
> If you miss your bus and the next bus has a lot of extra seat, the drive will still let you on, unless there is a major city before your destination, when the bus could "top out".


That's a pretty good sumnation. And that policy creates a bone of contention between GL and my company, GL's NY State pool partner....

We still do things more or less the old fashioned way...we still sell to all who wish to travel, and then run extra sections as necessary. We will even sometimes put on a "double", for a single extra passenger, on our own local routes where we do not pool with GL.

Is that, in the words of "Triple H" of the World Wrestling Federation, "What's good for business"? Maybe yes, maybe no, but our owner thinks so.....

And whereas traditional "local" rural bus routes have pretty much gone from GL's and other carrier's networks, some of ours are actually growing.

I miss the days when tourists had the flexibility of asking for a stopover at whim, at any time. And of the unlimited travel passes, too.


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## rickycourtney

So has Greyhound actually sent out a press release or anything official saying they've eliminated overbooking or this just all original research?

I noticed online that Greyhound says:



> All tickets are valid for travel only on the date and schedule for which the ticket was purchased.


But most airlines have that policy too... but they also overbook.


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## Swadian Hardcore

No news release, but even the most popular schedules are not overbooked during Christmas high season. I've seen Greyhound buses topped out at 50 passengers, not one person left off the bus. Afternoon Friday skeds on San Francisco-Reno used to be overbooked all the time, now nothing's happening. And the booking system is now showing "sold out" or "x tickets remaining" for the more popular skeds. Asked a few drivers and terminal employees, they say the new system killed overbooking.

Besides, you find any recent complaints of Greyhound overbooking? Overbooking used to be half the complaints, now no such complaints at all. I read through a page of Greyhound's latest complaints. No mention of overbooking, only "lost luggage" and "missed connections". Again, people lose luggage when they forget to transfer "checked baggage", and on every mode of transport, there will be missed connections. Greyhound ticket jackets have a note saying "passengers are responsible for transferring luggage", but some people just don't see it.

I'm not making excuses for Greyhound, it's just that some people don't pay attention, and end up taking a whole page of complaints for nothing.


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## Richmond

Swadian Hardcore said:


> But remember, I initially said someone should start a Washington-Memphis bus service covering the Kentucky Parkway, then expand to US 50 once they have more money. As for that route, maybe taking the Washington-Charleston shortcut via Elkins would be smart, poor intermediate stops, but can complete the segment in 6 hours all-inclusive. Or for intermediate stops, either US 211 via Harrisonburg or US 29 via Charlottesville.


Would that include Winchester, VA, which has no Greyhound or any other kind of intercity transit now?


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## Swadian Hardcore

That's on US 50, isn't it? Please remember there's nobody starting a bus company in that region right now. Well, if you want bus service, you could get a small group of people and try to start a company, I guess.


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## Guest

Swadian Hardcore said:


> That's on US 50, isn't it? Please remember there's nobody starting a bus company in that region right now. Well, if you want bus service, you could get a small group of people and try to start a company, I guess.


Yep. Also I-81, US 11, and US 17. Seems like Greyhound used to stop in two or three towns in the Shenandoah Valley (I-81 corridor): Winchester, Harrisonburg, Waynesboro, and terminating in Roanoke. I think it was a Washington-Roanoke schedule. Now, all Washington-Roanoke schedules go through Richmond, although there is still a Washington-Charlottesville schedule.


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## railiner

Winchester, Va. used to be a major point for Greyhound Lines....from Washington, Capitol Greyhound used US 50 to get there, and then went on west toward Cincinnati , while Atlantic Greyhound used Va. 7 to get there, and then went southwest on US 11 towards Tennessee. And Pennsylvania Greyhound came down US 11 from Hagerstown and Harrisburg.

Virginia Trailways used to also have a connection via L&M bus lines feeding it from Winchester to its routes at Front Royal.

It is really shocking to see the loss of routes and schedules through Virginia from years ago when you look back at what Greyhound and Trailways used to run....


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## Swadian Hardcore

Same thing all across the country. Same problems that hit the train network hit the bus network. All cars and planes eating away passengers. Now trains are recovering and buses are recovering. Seems to go hand-in-hand.


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## neroden

Swadian Hardcore said:


> The biggest problem facing the bus industry currently may be the lack of accurate bus maps. Greyhound should at least make an accurate map of their own routes. Right now the only way to know which bus goes from A to B is to skim through the entire System Timetable.


Yeah. I really can't take a bus company seriously if it can't publish a map of its own routes.
I'm really glad to hear that Greyhound has eliminated overbooking... but I assume that's only for routes operated by GLI and GLC. Other carriers still overbook, right?

Unfortunately nearly all the service in my part of New York is Trailways. Who do overbook. Or CoachUSA. Worse, neither actually publishes complete maps or schedules....

...I don't understand why bus companies think they can get away without publishing maps or schedules. The online reservations site is NOT a substitute, because it doesn't let you see what your options are.


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## railiner

neroden said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest problem facing the bus industry currently may be the lack of accurate bus maps. Greyhound should at least make an accurate map of their own routes. Right now the only way to know which bus goes from A to B is to skim through the entire System Timetable.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I really can't take a bus company seriously if it can't publish a map of its own routes.
> I'm really glad to hear that Greyhound has eliminated overbooking... but I assume that's only for routes operated by GLI and GLC. Other carriers still overbook, right?
> 
> Unfortunately nearly all the service in my part of New York is Trailways. Who do overbook. Or CoachUSA. Worse, neither actually publishes complete maps or schedules....
> 
> ...I don't understand why bus companies think they can get away without publishing maps or schedules. The online reservations site is NOT a substitute, because it doesn't let you see what your options are.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that you are dissatisified by the New York Trailways service. While I am not that familiar with what happens at Ithaca, here in NYC, we strive to accommodate all who desire to travel.

As far as publishing timetables and route maps.....we print a complete Adirondack/Pine Hill Trailways timetable that has a route map right on it, and we also publish a separate New York Trailways timetable folder...if the Ithaca station does not have any, you can call our toll-free number and request them sent to you....


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## Swadian Hardcore

Greyhound publishes accurate schedules and an outdated map. The outdated map isn't that bad, just a few old routes that have been cancelled, and a few new routes, but most of it is useable. Yeah, not great, but at least they got rid of overbooking. Next up they should make a better route map. Again, I'm talking about "Greyhound", if it's not GLI or GLC, then it's not Greyhound, and I can't say anything about the other ones since the vast majority of my experience is with Greyhound. Greyhound is the one that's really working hard to improve, with their bad reputation and all.

The only "bad" Greyhounds right now are the 9000-series schedules, ex-Americanos, and they still use the crappy Americanos equipment. But no overbooking. Obviously the spare buses too, used in high season.

The biggest error on the Greyhound map is "469" which has been cancelled. E-mail Greyhound and ask for a better map, they should make it sooner or later. 340 and 350 are cancelled, but other companies still run it. Same with the shortened 482 north of Kansas City, 582 south of Tucson, and 509 east of Missoula. In Canada, some of the remote northern routes have been shortened, none are really cancelled.

So if you ignore 469 and remote Canadian routes, the rest should be OK. Or just go with the Timetable Index, very accurate. If you want a remote Greyhound ride, there's still the Dawson Creek-Whitehorse as Table 716 currently on http://extranet.greyhound.com/Revsup/csked2/pageset.html.

Edit: I just noticed that Dawson Creek-Whitehorse shows a transfer in Fort Nelson. People who rode that route recently say there's no transfer, it's just a split schedule because south of Fort Nelson is 6x weekly and north of Fort Nelson to Whitehorse is 3x weekly.


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## rickycourtney

Greyhound hardly publishes a "public" timetable.

This timetable on their extranet site is clearly intended for employees and I think they keep open access for diehard Greyhound fans (like Swadian) and transportation geeks (like most of the rest of us.) But this timetable is clearly not meant for public consumption. It would be nice to have this more prominently displayed on Greyhound.com with an accurate map, but I don't see it happening.


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## Swadian Hardcore

What I see with this timetable, is that anyone can understand it. So anyone can easily use it if Greyhound posts it to their official website, instead of Extranet. They would need to get rid of the typos and update the route map, but it's not that hard.

By the way, Greyhound finally made a news release about Express service on the San Francisco-Reno, but it started on June 25th and they made the release on July 1st.

Check out the new Dallas-Los Angeles Limiteds and you will see Yield Management in action. For example, the schedules with worse times are cheaper ($59.50), while the best times are more expensive (up to $86).

Also, there's the new Americanos Limited on the Denver-El Paso, presumably using Americanos X3-45's, exact same as Greyhound's. Their other buses are all falling apart, except for the few rebuilt 102DL3's, some of which have been transferred to Greyhound.


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