# Chicago Union Station - New Boarding Process for Coach Class Customers



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 12, 2016)

Let the good times (and grumbling) begin...or something like that.

 From the Amtrak Website:



> Chicago Union Station - New Boarding Process for Coach Class Customers
> Effective October 15, 2016
> 
> To provide a more convenient experience for our customers, we will begin a new boarding process at Chicago Union Station on October 15, 2016. Coach Class customers (except Hiawatha Service customers) boarding or connecting to reserved trains in Chicago should obtain a boarding pass.
> ...


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## Train2104 (Oct 12, 2016)

Forgive me for being stupid, but what is the current way of boarding coach passengers? (Line up waiting for track? Line up at known gate waiting for door to open?) I'm familiar with the process at various NEC stations; the only time I've traveled through Chicago it was a cross platform connection due to delay...


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## Seaboard92 (Oct 12, 2016)

When I was in Chicago which was in June. The method the Capitol Limited used was line up at a sign in the Great Hall then walk in a single file line to the train.


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## NW cannonball (Oct 12, 2016)

I'm slightly confused -- seems there are *three* different areas to board from, depending on *at least 6* (or more) categories of passengers? Huh?

Last to board "general boarding from Great Hall with priority for Legacy Club which is free for uniformed military"

Second priority is "South Boarding lounge" (where is that?) for "Seniors, disabilities, families with children 12 and under, and non-uniformed active duty military personnel can board with assistance from the South Boarding Lounge, ahead of general boarding"

First boarding is, of course for Metro Lounge customers - sleepers, etc.

Seems complicated, but once passengers get it  might work OK.

The language seems to say that non-uniformed active duty board before uniformed Legacy club -- OK by me and my kids.

Seems complicated, we'll see how the description follows the facts, eh?


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## cirdan (Oct 12, 2016)

I do think having to be at CUS 45 minutes before departure is excxessive, especially if you're just making a shorter trip.

Millions and millions are beings pent to shave some minutes off the Lincoln Service, and then some guy in an office nullifies the advanatge by telling people to spend that time waiting in CUS.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 12, 2016)

cirdan said:


> I do think having to be at CUS 45 minutes before departure is excxessive, especially if you're just making a shorter trip. Millions and millions are beings pent to shave some minutes off the Lincoln Service, and then some guy in an office nullifies the advanatge by telling people to spend that time waiting in CUS.


Good point. It's almost like Amtrak is expecting passengers to be heading through some sort of security screening process on their way to the tracks. Either that or they're surprisingly eager to casually forfeit one of the most obvious and long lived benefits of passenger rail. It would be one thing if this early arrival requirement was tied to an international pre-screened trip such as on the Eurostar, but for purely domestic trips I'm hard pressed to think of another passenger rail network that expects passengers to arrive a minimum of 45 minutes early.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 12, 2016)

In Chicago you are better off getting there 45 minutes early because of traffic. You can arrive at the last minute. You'll just be in the last group to board. I think they are trying to reduce the practice of people standing in line to board.

It is confusing imho what happens after the first boarding group. How many boarding groups for a sold out cz, cl, or lsl. Will the boarding pass include a seat assignment?

I suspect they might group families and people traveling together in the second boarding group and singles in later groups?


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2016)

Hmmmm, looks like they are at least trying to improve the boarding process in Chicago over the current Cattle Car/Airport method.

Sounds like they borrowed Southwest Airlines procedures,looking forward to boots on the ground reports from AUers that ride Coach out of Union Station.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 12, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Hmmmm, looks like they are at least trying to improve the boarding process in Chicago over the current Cattle Car/Airport method.
> 
> Sounds like they borrowed Southwest Airlines procedures,looking forward to boots on the ground reports from AUers that ride Coach out of Union Station.


I was going to say the same thing and I see this working out quite well. And like a couple previous posters said, spending extra time at CUS is much more enjoyable than doing so at the airport. For one thing you are clear to come and go at your leisure once you have your BP. And you are not held hostage to confiscatory concession prices.


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## PVD (Oct 12, 2016)

It doesn't say you have to check in and get a boarding pass, it just says if you show up without one you will be among the last to board. Last minute arrivals are still accommodated.


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## keelhauled (Oct 12, 2016)

cirdan said:


> I do think having to be at CUS 45 minutes before departure is excxessive, especially if you're just making a shorter trip.
> 
> Millions and millions are beings pent to shave some minutes off the Lincoln Service, and then some guy in an office nullifies the advanatge by telling people to spend that time waiting in CUS.


Don't they already advise you to arrive early in general? I remember seeing on my e-tickets "we advise you to arrive at the station 30 minutes before departure, more if you have baggage" or somesuch.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 12, 2016)

Steve4031 said:


> You can arrive at the last minute. You'll just be in the last group to board.


&


PVD said:


> Last minute arrivals are still accommodated.


 Technically if you arrive at the _actual_ last minute Amtrak CUS staff will hold you back as you watch your train leave the station. If you arrive at the _sixth to the last_ minute you might be allowed to board but I wouldn't count on it. In the case of CUS it's probably best to be at the platform ten to fifteen minutes early to allow for rogue gate dragons with questionable timekeeping methods. To my knowledge this enforced no-boarding window remains unique to Amtrak. Or at least I've never seen it implemented elsewhere. These days if I were traveling out of CUS I'd probably arrive an hour early or more just to allow time to inquire and adjust to whatever boarding method happens to be deployed/modified/reverted/ignored on that particular day.



Bob Dylan said:


> Hmmmm, looks like they are at least trying to improve the boarding process in Chicago over the current Cattle Car/Airport method.


 Early arrivals, boarding passes, extended waiting, and granular boarding priority. Looks to me that the new process has much _more_ in common with airport boarding procedures than the previous version. Not saying that's a bad thing per se, just that it seems to be moving _closer_ to the airport experience rather than away from it.



OlympianHiawatha said:


> I was going to say the same thing and I see this working out quite well. And like a couple previous posters said, spending extra time at CUS is much more enjoyable than doing so at the airport. For one thing you are clear to come and go at your leisure once you have your BP. And you are not held hostage to confiscatory concession prices.


 There is little doubt in my mind that the TSA (or an equally invasive surrogate) will eventually make its way to CUS. The only question is when it will happen and what Amtrak riders will be willing to do about it.


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## jis (Oct 12, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Hmmmm, looks like they are at least trying to improve the boarding process in Chicago over the current Cattle Car/Airport method.


Haven't been to the airport recently eh? Boarding, at least on United, has been way less confusing than anything that Amtrak has done for more than a year now ... Five separate marked lines and your line number/group printed in big font on your boarding pass. Clear announcements for pre boarding Global, active military duty, handicapped and families with children two and under.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2016)

Not at the Too Small Austin Airport jis, it's a zoo! (.week between ACL Music and Formula One Grand Prix)

I was there just this morning with a friend catching a flight to EWR, and the line for Security was out the door and on the sidewalk. Took my friend an hour to get through the Blue Shirt Blockade! YMMV


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## jebr (Oct 12, 2016)

I think he's referring to the actual gate procedure. I do agree that at the gate it's similar, although at least on the regional jets I took it rather quickly became a free for all.


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## wwchi (Oct 12, 2016)

If they just let you select a seat when you make a reservation they could just board by that. If you arrive less than 5 min before you are out of luck but otherwise with a reserved SEAT you are free to arrive as you like. If they are afraid of too many last minute people make it 10 min. If you are priority your ticket will say so.


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## PVD (Oct 12, 2016)

RJ boarding usually deteriorates very quickly when people have to gate-check carry on bags that fit in the overheads of main-line aircraft.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 12, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Not at the Austin airport his, it's a zoo! I was there just this morning with a friend catching a flight to EWR, and the line for Security was out the door and on the sidewalk. Took my friend an hour to get through the Blue Shirt Blockade! YMMV


In my limited experience Austin's airport has left me with the impression that it's actually one of the quickest and easiest to use in the country. Not saying it's the best airport in the world, just that it's been easier and simpler for me than many other airports in US cities. The main problem, at least as I see it, is that the cost and duration to travel there is rather excessive. Leaving your car there is also surprisingly expensive considering it's located in such a remote and largely undeveloped area. Other than that it has much better food options than other small airports and even hosts a bit of quirky Austin culture now and again. Maybe I'm just blind to its faults due to lack of familiarity, but I actually like Austin's airport.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 12, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Bob Dylan said:
> 
> 
> > Not at the Austin airport his, it's a zoo! I was there just this morning with a friend catching a flight to EWR, and the line for Security was out the door and on the sidewalk. Took my friend an hour to get through the Blue Shirt Blockade! YMMV
> ...


I just flew out of Austin last week and thought it was one of the best airports in the country. Super quick security, professional TSA crew, good food options (but of course pricey) and southwest crew was good as well. That's my experience at least.


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## jis (Oct 12, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Not at the Austin airport his, it's a zoo!
> 
> I was there just this morning with a friend catching a flight to EWR, and the line for Security was out the door and on the sidewalk. Took my friend an hour to get through the Blue Shirt Blockade! YMMV


Are you confusing the TSA with the boarding process? Boarding happens at the boarding gate. TSA is a different matter. It varies a lot from airport to airport and individual airlines have very little control over it. I thought we were talking about the boarding process since Southwests boarding process was also mentioned. That has nothing to do with the TSA.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2016)

Apologies to all, as usual you are correct jis, I was talking about the Security Lines and the insane traffic/parking mess, not the boarding gates which I haven't used since last fall!

In my experience if Austin's Airport is considered good compared to other US ones I'm glad I'm no longer a Road Warrior like back in the day!


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## ScouseAndy (Oct 12, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > I do think having to be at CUS 45 minutes before departure is excxessive, especially if you're just making a shorter trip. Millions and millions are beings pent to shave some minutes off the Lincoln Service, and then some guy in an office nullifies the advanatge by telling people to spend that time waiting in CUS.
> ...


Even Eurostar is 30 minute check in currently. Shortly after the Paris terrorist attacks this did get lengthened to 45-60 minutes IIRC due to additional security checks however that was short lived. For Business Premier (Aka 1st class) the check in time is 10 minutes. Gare du Nord is the busiest station in Europe with 700,000 passengers going thru it per day. How many passengers does Chicago get?


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## Karl1459 (Oct 12, 2016)

Steve4031 said:


> In Chicago you are better off getting there 45 minutes early because of traffic. You can arrive at the last minute. You'll just be in the last group to board. I think they are trying to reduce the practice of people standing in line to board.
> 
> It is confusing imho what happens after the first boarding group. How many boarding groups for a sold out cz, cl, or lsl. Will the boarding pass include a seat assignment?
> 
> I suspect they might group families and people traveling together in the second boarding group and singles in later groups?


If they follow a similar pattern to what I have seen at Portland or Seattle...

1. If train is full (or will be at a later station) both seat and car will be assigned, the "boarding pass" will be the seat check.

2. If "less" than full the car only will be assigned (pick your seat). They do try to avoid double spotting, and to have to open only one coach for just a few pax in the wee hours.


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## wwchi (Oct 12, 2016)

Just posted this below in the Chicago Met Lounge topic too but in case anyone here has any info after 10/15 please post! Thanks.

Any word on if it will become Mandatory to board from the Metropolitan Lounge if you are in Bus Class? I got a couple emails today regarding upcoming trips and the new coach boarding procedures...if anyone has any experience starting on 10/15 please post it. I usually just go directly to the gate in the South Boarding area due to when I arrive at CUS. Below is the email I got:

_Dear Amtrak Customer,_

_We see you are scheduled to board the train or make a connection in Chicago. To provide our customers with a more convenient experience, we now have a new boarding process at Chicago Union Station. Coach Class customers (except Hiawatha Service customers) boarding or connecting to reserved trains in Chicago will need a boarding pass._

_When you get to the station, check in with a station employee who will verify your ticket and give you a boarding pass. You will then be directed to the appropriate boarding area to wait for your train. The earlier you check in, the earlier you’ll be in the boarding process. If you don't check in, you'll be among the last to board. General boarding for Coach Class customers will take place in the Great Hall. Since Hiawatha Service trains are unreserved, boarding passes are not needed. Hiawatha Service customers can go straight to the North Boarding Lounge to wait for their train._

_Coach Class customers who want priority boarding can purchase a $20 pass for the Legacy Club and enjoy free snacks, TV, games plus the benefit of early boarding access. Uniformed military personnel can enjoy the Legacy Club free of charge._

_Seniors age 62 and over, customers with disabilities, families with children 12 and under, and active duty military personnel can board from the South Boarding Lounge, ahead of general boarding._

_*If you are traveling in a Sleeping car, Business Class, or are a Select Plus or a Select Executive Amtrak Guest Rewards member, you will be boarded early from the Metropolitan Lounge. Just make sure to wait in the in the Metropolitan Lounge in order to take advantage of advance boarding.*_

_Passengers should arrive at Chicago Union Station no later than 45 minutes before departure (60 minutes if ticketing, baggage or passenger assistance services are required). Note that the boarding gates will close five minutes before train departure._

_We look forward to welcoming you to Chicago Union Station. Thank you for choosing Amtrak._



_Sincerely,_

_ Amtrak Customer Service_


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## railbuck (Oct 13, 2016)

ScouseAndy said:


> Gare du Nord is the busiest station in Europe with 700,000 passengers going thru it per day. How many passengers does Chicago get?


Somehow, just about all 700,000 of them manage to get to the right platform and onto the train without check-in, boarding passes, seat checks, priority boarding groups, gate deadlines, and other artificial bureaucracy (except Eurostar, due primarily to Schengen border control).


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## kbmiflyer (Oct 13, 2016)

For those of you that are comparing this to Southwest, it is not like Southwest. On southwest, I can get my boarding pass at home and still be first in line (or early in line). This is requiring you to show up early to get a physical boarding pass if you want to board first. This is more akin to Southwest Airlines 30 years ago with the plastic boarding cards.

I almost always take business class out of CUS, so this won't impact me too much, but it shows just how poorly run CUS is. Asking people to show up 45 minutes early to board a train is crazy.

If I understand correctly, boarding order will be very similar to the old method (Metro lounge first, then legacy lounge, then handicap, seniors, other military and families with young kids in the old boarding area, then the masses from the great hall. The only different is that the masses in the great hall will have to line up by boarding pass number that they have to go to a physical person to get. Not sure how this makes anything any more efficient. In the past, a majority of passengers would not have to go to a physical person. It seems like this is going to result in an increased staffing level needed.


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## wwchi (Oct 13, 2016)

Also did it even say WHERE this person is that you get this from? the gate? The great hall? Doesn't impact me much either as I always do bus class too but it does seem like it makes it a bit more complicated. You are correct in that it's like SWA was years ago. Again I think if you simply could select your seat when you made your reservation it would be clearer and less anxiety provoking for riders.


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## CelticWhisper (Oct 13, 2016)

Yeah, this is really nonsensical. Posting track numbers alongside trains and letting passengers find their own way seems to work everywhere else in the world, and boarding from unstaffed Amshack platforms in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night works in most of the US. How is this not just needless complexity?

Aside from the lack of TSA pig-thuggery, a great thing about train stations is that they are quite distinctly not airports in the way they operate. No gate-specific waiting areas, just common areas where you do as you please until your train is called and then mosey on down to the platform. CUS is my home station so I'm familiar with how chaotic it can get, but this seems an ill-devised way to solve the chaos. It's just forced inelegant "structure" that adds overhead.

And if it is to set the stage for security theater, then it's bye-bye Amtrak for me. That will gut me as I love taking the train, but I refuse to be kept safe at the expense of my privacy. This change does make me nervous on those grounds, as does the loss of direct boarding from the old Metro Lounge since there was less opportunity for APD officers or TSA clerks to intercept sleeper pax on their way to the train.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

It doesn't say you have to show up 45 minutes early, it only says you have to show up early to get a boarding pass.


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 13, 2016)

as I read the policy, you can show up five minutes before departure and get on. The whole boarding pass thing is for those who want to be first on the train to grab the best seats, etc.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

There is also a major positive that we seem to overlook. If you arrive early and check in, you can walk around the station, or go to the food court, or go outside, and come back to board, rather than just hanging around on line. Hopefully, they will create a system that makes it easy to check in, including the ability to check in while dropping baggage.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 13, 2016)

kbmiflyer said:


> For those of you that are comparing this to Southwest, it is not like Southwest. On southwest, I can get my boarding pass at home and still be first in line (or early in line). This is requiring you to show up early to get a physical boarding pass if you want to board first. This is more akin to Southwest Airlines 30 years ago with the plastic boarding cards.


Excellent point.



kbmiflyer said:


> I almost always take business class out of CUS, so this won't impact me too much, but it shows just how poorly run CUS is. Asking people to show up 45 minutes early to board a train is crazy.


I don't know if it shows it's poorly run so much as it shows how little the folks in charge understand their own product. Almost every change Amtrak has made in the last several years seems to be chasing the commercial airline model. Sometimes this results in an improvement, but in many cases Amtrak seems to end up chasing the wrong angle or era relative to service they're actually selling today.



kbmiflyer said:


> If I understand correctly, boarding order will be very similar to the old method (Metro lounge first, then legacy lounge, then handicap, seniors, other military and families with young kids in the old boarding area, then the masses from the great hall. The only different is that the masses in the great hall will have to line up by boarding pass number that they have to go to a physical person to get. Not sure how this makes anything any more efficient. In the past, a majority of passengers would not have to go to a physical person. It seems like this is going to result in an increased staffing level needed.


Which is unfortunate, since it sounds like the available space for Amtrak counter staff is actually dwindling, even as their arbitrary requirements for in-person service appear to be increasing. Which could potentially indicate that in the future even 45 minutes may not be enough time to stand in line and receive a worthwhile boarding pass. I also find it odd that in Amtrak's thinking even twelve year olds require special "young children" boarding protection.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

The 12 year old deal is probably more geared towards parents not wanting to potentially be split up with their kids while traveling, The typical airline criteria is 2 years old, but they usually just announce "families traveling with small children" Haven't seen too many 12 year olds that fit that description lately.


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## SarahZ (Oct 13, 2016)

PVD said:


> There is also a major positive that we seem to overlook. If you arrive early and check in, you can walk around the station, or go to the food court, or go outside, and come back to board, rather than just hanging around on line. Hopefully, they will create a system that makes it easy to check in, including the ability to check in while dropping baggage.


Precisely. I love this.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 13, 2016)

PVD said:


> There is also a major positive that we seem to overlook. If you arrive early and check in, you can walk around the station, or go to the food court, or go outside, and come back to board, rather than just hanging around on line. Hopefully, they will create a system that makes it easy to check in, including the ability to check in while dropping baggage.


&


PVD said:


> The 12 year old deal is probably more geared towards parents not wanting to potentially be split up with their kids while traveling, The typical airline criteria is 2 years old, but they usually just announce "families traveling with small children" Haven't seen too many 12 year olds that fit that description lately.


These are reasonable counterpoints, although I would personally prefer reserved seat selection and online check-in solutions as opposed to early arrival and queuing for manual check-in.


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## seat38a (Oct 13, 2016)

railbuck said:


> ScouseAndy said:
> 
> 
> > Gare du Nord is the busiest station in Europe with 700,000 passengers going thru it per day. How many passengers does Chicago get?
> ...


Because a TGV ticket has your seat number, car number and everything but platform information already on it.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

Online check in is entirely reasonable, and any modern reservation system should have online and kiosk check in as a basic feature. Seat selection poses a whole lot of separate issues, because so much traffic is not endpoint, it would be difficult to deal with early reserving midpoint travelers blocking seats that a passenger will sit in at an originating station. It is certainly do able, but would likely require additional on board staff (added costs), and probably create even more ill will than already exists.


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## wwchi (Oct 13, 2016)

On line seat selection shouldn't really big a big deal. It's a technology issue. Just setting up the reservation system to add that. It already knows when a seat becomes vacant along the way and is available for sale. That just needs to appear in SPECIFIC seat form, just like when you make an on line airline reservation. You pull up the seat map and pick from what's available. If you have Bus Class you pick from that car, if you have Coach you pick from those cars. If you make your reservation early you have a wider selection of seats.

I mean I get on at the LAST stop going into Chicago on my Monday morning train. If I had someone with me we would NEVER get to sit together because all there are never 2 seats together (business class) when I get on. If I were able to select seats in advance I could sit with my travel partner.

Also because I am always working when I'm on the train I'd like to know that I will have a tray table for my laptop as well as power outlets. Sometimes I get on that last stop before Chicago and am in the front row, aisle seat, so get neither of those. Not trying to be a princess here, just think that for many of us picking a seat makes things a little better. Especially if you are buying Premium seats. It would be a nice added benefit.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 13, 2016)

Just spent three days riding trains from Chicago. This boarding process is already in place and being used. The only difference I see is that now Amtrak wants you to check in and get a boarding pass. Purpose of the boarding pass(coach passengers only) is to identify from where one boards the train - either the Legacy Club, South Boarding Lounge, or Great Hall general boarding. While this process was being used in early October, there was a need and I think this will help some form of "evidence" to control access mainly to the South Boarding Lounge area. I noticed little to no control over who entered the South Lounges while I was there so I am sure entry qualifications were abused or misused by several passengers "gaming" the system. For someone like me who mostly uses the LD sleepers or Business class boarding from the new Metropolitan Lounge is now operating smoothly. Clear instructions are provided although Amtrak employees no longer walk you to the train as in the kindergarten walk from old Metro Lounge. For me, I boarded the Hiawatha one day which is unreserved and does not fall under the new guidelines. Another day I boarded the Carl Sandburg business class from the Metro Lounge--no problem. And on the third day I departed in sleeper on the California Zephyr so used red cap and that went smoothly too as did those that chose to walk from the Metro Lounge. I'll be passing through November 30 and don't expect any problems.


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## ScouseAndy (Oct 13, 2016)

seat38a said:


> railbuck said:
> 
> 
> > ScouseAndy said:
> ...


The vast majority of passengers from Gare Du Nord are not on TGV/Eurostar or Thayls trains (the only ones with seat reservations etc) but on TER/TET or suburban trains.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

The technology to do seat selection is pretty straightforward,and already exists, whether it is a positive or negative is an entirely different story. It would benefit some (myself included since I tend to book pretty far in advance) but it might add cost and tension that exceed its benefit.


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## wwchi (Oct 13, 2016)

PVD said:


> The technology to do seat selection is pretty straightforward,and already exists, whether it is a positive or negative is an entirely different story. It would benefit some (myself included since I tend to book pretty far in advance) but it might add cost and tension that exceed its benefit.


Yes, it would definitely benefit me as well but funny as I think it causes LESS tension, at least once at the station. People always seem so anxious about making sure they get on the train (and get a good seat). I think if we had assigned seats people in the waiting area wouldn't be so pushy. But that's JMO!


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

On crowded trains with lots of stops, who is going to chase people out of seats? The opportunity for confrontation is too great, sadly we don't live in a particularly civil society.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 13, 2016)

> I don't know if it shows it's poorly run so much as it shows how little the folks in charge understand their own product. Almost every change Amtrak has made in the last several years seems to be chasing the commercial airline model. Sometimes this results in an improvement, but in many cases Amtrak seems to end up chasing the wrong angle or era relative to service they're actually selling today







Who do you think has been in charge of customer relations over the last 6 years or so?



wwchi said:


> PVD said:
> 
> 
> > The technology to do seat selection is pretty straightforward,and already exists, whether it is a positive or negative is an entirely different story. It would benefit some (myself included since I tend to book pretty far in advance) but it might add cost and tension that exceed its benefit.
> ...


I'm sure you'll pay for the privilege soon!


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## A Voice (Oct 13, 2016)

wwchi said:


> PVD said:
> 
> 
> > The technology to do seat selection is pretty straightforward,and already exists, whether it is a positive or negative is an entirely different story. It would benefit some (myself included since I tend to book pretty far in advance) but it might add cost and tension that exceed its benefit.
> ...


_Assigned seats_ are a very different animal from passenger selected seats.

With the exception of last minute reservations, Amtrak obviously knows days (or minutes, on trains where seat _assignments_ are made at boarding) prior to departure who is travelling where, and seating could thus be assigned accordingly so that all parties sit together, nobody must hunt for an available seat or be asked to move mid-trip, etc. This would also eliminate the problem of people trying to be first in line to board, as there would be no need.

On the other hand, allowing passengers to_ select _seats (ahead of actual boarding) is problematic and far more complicated than just a technological issue. Permitting (particularly early-booking) persons free reign to select any available seat on the train just won't work given the extent of intermediate-point business (it is much simpler for the airlines, which lack multiple stops). You would effectively block later reserving passengers from even making a reservation by creating a situation where there are plenty of unoccupied seats at every point, but no single seat available for the blocked passengers' entire journey. The train would become "sold out" when there was potentially ample inventory remaining.

What will work, of course, is offering passengers either a limited selection of seats from which to select or else limiting the number of passengers who can make seat reservations at all. As you have noted, single travelers can block parties of two or more persons from sitting together, but this may be avoided by only allowing (or assigning) single passengers to select seats next to another single passenger. Parties of two might be offered only pairs of seats; They would not be given the option to book two window seats, for instance. Seat selection also works if you have only a (very) small number of passengers pre-selecting seats, such as those who have paid for the privilege (which sounds like a winning idea, frankly), as the numbers of seats potentially "blocked" is small enough you can probably fill them with odd numbered parties or, at worst, cause only minimal seat switching.



PVD said:


> On crowded trains with lots of stops, who is going to chase people out of seats? The opportunity for confrontation is too great, sadly we don't live in a particularly civil society.


Nobody should have a need to chase people out of seats (with rare exception); That's why it is important to be careful how any seat selection program is implemented, and what makes such a feature far more complicated than it appears.


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

Asked another way, is it worth it? Do the benefits outweigh the hassles? I'm not sure the present system is really that bad. Would changing enhance the travel experience for enough riders to improve business to the point where seat yields improve beyond added costs? I have my doubts, but it's just conjecture without hard analytics.


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## PaulM (Oct 13, 2016)

NW cannonball said:


> I'm slightly confused -- seems there are *three* different areas to board from, depending on *at least 6* (or more) categories of passengers? Huh?


If you are limiting it to coach class, three areas (not counting Hiawatha boarding) sounds right: Legacy Club, old waiting room, and great hall waiting room.

Again limiting it to coach class, there seem to be three priority classes made up of many more categories of passengers. From high to low:

1. Priority club, including uniformed military

2. What was referred to for a short time as "assisted boarding", i.e., seniors age 62 and over, customers with disabilities, families with children 12 and under, and non-uniformed active duty military personnel

3. General boarding; i.e., everyone else, plus apparently other categories who didn't get a boarding pass.



> Last to board "general boarding from Great Hall with priority for Legacy Club which is free for uniformed military"


I don't interpret "Legacy Club will be the first Coach Class group to board" to mean "Last to board"



> Second priority is "South Boarding lounge" (where is that?) for "Seniors, disabilities, families with children 12 and under, and non-uniformed active duty military personnel


All I can say is it's in the southeast corner of the lower level. It's what was generally referred to here as the cattle pen, that is to say before the the Great Hall began to be used as a boarding area.



> The language seems to say that non-uniformed active duty board before uniformed Legacy club


Doesn't say that to me.

---------------

I interpret this communication more as a set of rules. It doesn't say anything about how Amtrak staff will implement them, i.e., see that the rules are observed. For example, how will they insure that the legacy club, which is farthest away from the platforms, arrive at the train before "assisted" boarding, which is closest. Merely putting Legacy Club at the front of the kindergarten walk from the Great Hall won't insure it.

At least, with one exception, it clearly defines the priorities and where each wait. The exception is a departing coach passengers with ML privilege.

Incidentally, it would be useful to hear from an actual ML user to tell us if you need to get a boarding pass before being admitted to the ML.


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## wwchi (Oct 13, 2016)

A Voice said:


> wwchi said:
> 
> 
> > PVD said:
> ...


I can see the potential problem with selecting seats in coach with people going to all different stops, but business class (at least on my trains) has somewhere between 15 and 28 seats. In BC you have people that are going to all different stops, so not seating by where they are getting off. I think this would be something additional business class can offer (like your beverage and paper). At a minimum I'd like to see Select Plus members be able to select a seat. Amtrak is one of my biggest annual expenditures on my Amex - it would be nice to reward your regular riders with some additional perks.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 13, 2016)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> I noticed little to no control over who entered the South Lounges while I was there so I am sure entry qualifications were abused or misused by several passengers "gaming" the system.


If people are "gaming" a system designed to treat them like children perhaps we should get rid of the system. Passengers seem to find their trains and seats just fine in other industrialized democracies. Is there a logical reason why we alone are incapable of such a basic task?



PVD said:


> The technology to do seat selection is pretty straightforward,and already exists, whether it is a positive or negative is an entirely different story. It would benefit some (myself included since I tend to book pretty far in advance) but it might add cost and tension that exceed its benefit. On crowded trains with lots of stops, who is going to chase people out of seats? The opportunity for confrontation is too great, sadly we don't live in a particularly civil society.


From what I've read seat assignments were a major problem with the antisocial personalities who live along the NEC. Apparently, if the NEC can't have it then nobody else can have it either. Not sure I follow the logic of that decision but I guess the experience on the NEC guides much of the thinking at Amtrak.



Thirdrail7 said:


> Who do you think has been in charge of customer relations over the last 6 years or so?


I honestly have no idea. I've never heard or spoken to the head of Customer Relations. No have I heard anyone mention him here by name. Which is odd since we have so many self-identified insiders. Guess they figured it wasn't important enough to disseminate to the uninitiated.

Maybe it's this guy...?

John Wojciechowski

Director, Customer Relations

60 Massachusetts Ave NE

Washington, DC 20002-4285

(202) 906-2129

[email protected]


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## PVD (Oct 13, 2016)

A third of the ridership, and a fare yield of 3 times as much per mile makes those anti-social folks the best customers (not the best people, but much as I hate to say it, that doesn't actually matter in the real world)


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## bretton88 (Oct 13, 2016)

I don't believe ARROW is capable of customer seat selection (Customer Service can do bedrooms, but I am not sure about seats). The truth is Amtrak need to finally replace Arrow with a modern booking system which will allow them to do things like online check in and seat reservations, but as always it will cost plenty of money, which amtrak may not have to spare.


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## cirdan (Oct 14, 2016)

I recently booked a Spanish train and you can actually open a seating map (similar to that on airline booking sites) and it shows which seats are available and which are forward facing and which are reverse facing and you can select your seat. It also shows the sequence of the cars and direction of travel so you can chose to sit close to the cafetreria, or close to the front of the train or whatever else your preference may be.

So the software exists. Amtrak won't need to develop it from scratch.


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## ScouseAndy (Oct 14, 2016)

cirdan said:


> I recently booked a Spanish train and you can actually open a seating map (similar to that on airline booking sites) and it shows which seats are available and which are forward facing and which are reverse facing and you can select your seat. It also shows the sequence of the cars and direction of travel so you can chose to sit close to the cafetreria, or close to the front of the train or whatever else your preference may be.
> 
> So the software exists. Amtrak won't need to develop it from scratch.


The software does exist but licenses still cost big money, and there is very little point in having such software when you are unable to guarantee that the coaches are going to be in the right order and facing the right way otherwise you are just making empty promises to customers which you cant meet.

Software does exist to only allow passengers stopping at certain stations to only select certain part of trains as Itailan trains booking system already does this on line so that actually isn't an issue.


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

I am not advocating for or against its use, but since I'm fairly certain reserved seating was originally offered on Acela, some capabilities are already present in Arrow. Single cars like B/C might be a way to offer some options without adding added cot and complexity.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Oct 14, 2016)

A Voice said:


> wwchi said:
> 
> 
> > PVD said:
> ...


I have been on Amtrak trains with assigned seating and trains without it. I have also seen on trains without it signs that block off seats for passengers traveling together. If Amtrak can guesstimate the percent of passengers traveling in pairs and passengers traveling solo, they can have certain seats only allowed to be chosen as pairs while not forcing you to sit in an assigned seat like you're school students. Or how about at least being able to choose window vs. aisle or side of the train at the gate rather than some attendant just handing you a seat assignment?


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## MattW (Oct 14, 2016)

ScouseAndy said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > I recently booked a Spanish train and you can actually open a seating map (similar to that on airline booking sites) and it shows which seats are available and which are forward facing and which are reverse facing and you can select your seat. It also shows the sequence of the cars and direction of travel so you can chose to sit close to the cafetreria, or close to the front of the train or whatever else your preference may be.
> ...


How often do Amtrak consists really change? Especially the Acelas and Talgos? I can just about always count on the Crescent being Buscan-2 View Sleepers-Diner-Amcan Cafe-3 Amcan Coaches. Most LD trains only have seasonal variations, and when they do, it's not like the consist is jumbled up, it's usually just reversed, or one type of car is moved (i.e. sleepers moved from front to rear on Superliners, eastern LDs reversed to share with the LSL).


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 14, 2016)

While not entirely off topic, how Amtrak reservations does or does not assign seats is different from the actual boarding process discussion in Chicago. Most airlines have boarding process that board passengers in different groups whether they assign specific seat or not. Southwest Airlines is one of the most successful airlines and they do not assign seats. I believe the Chicago boarding process is similar to Southwest Airlines.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 14, 2016)

As has been noted... Southwest does not make passengers check in and obtain a boarding pass. You simply arrive at your gate and line up according to the letter and number on your ticket.

The idea of having all passengers line up to get a boarding pass is borderline insanity at a station as busy as Chicago Union. (IMHO of course


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 14, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> As has been noted... Southwest does not make passengers check in and obtain a boarding pass. You simply arrive at your gate and line up according to the letter and number on your ticket.
> 
> The idea of having all passengers line up to get a boarding pass is borderline insanity at a station as busy as Chicago Union. (IMHO of course


As I read it the new policy you don't need a boarding pass to get on your train, if you don't have a pass your last to get on the train. That why you can pay $20 to skip to the front of the line. Get a boarding pass and you can board the train in the middle of the pack. Or you can show up 10 min before and board the train last. The 5 min cut off is still there.
I am thinking groups are not going to be happy. A family travel together is now under pressure to pay extra to get those seats together. This is the sticking point in my opinion. This is why it's a bad policy.

How long after the upper management leave Chicago do you think this policy is going to last.


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

Southwest absolutely requires check in, it is how they monitor how many people can board in reference to overbooking. They do allow it to be done online, up to 24 hrs ahead of the flight, and you can print a boarding card at the airport. That is where your boarding group shows up. If a ticketed passenger doesn't check in by a certain time, they may give your seat away.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 14, 2016)

PVD said:


> Southwest absolutely requires check in, it is how they monitor how many people can board in reference to overbooking. They do allow it to be done online, up to 24 hrs ahead of the flight, and you can print a boarding card at the airport. That is where your boarding group shows up. If a ticketed passenger doesn't check in by a certain time, they may give your seat away.


PVD, you are absolutely correct. Let's not criticize the Chicago process until it is action. For all we know, the check in to get a boarding position pass may be handled in the Great Hall. The ticket counter has moved to the corridor between Metropolitan Lounge entrance and the Great Hall and only had like 2 or 3 possible positions so I doubt that is where check in will occur. It is possible Legacy Lounge people will checkin in the Legacy Lounge and remaining coach passengers will checkin in the center area of the Great Hall and possibly the priority boarding lounge for seniors, families with small children and non-uniformed military, etc will checkin in those waiting lounges. If it is so important for some groups to insure seats together, they can afford $20 each to get first coach priority. After all business class and sleepers are paying extra for those privileges.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 14, 2016)

Ok... Let me rephrase. Sourhwest does not require you to check in, in person, in order to obtain a boarding position. Nor do they add any steps at the airport in order to get a boarding position.

If (huge if), like on southwest, I just show up at Chicago, print my ticket at a quick track machine, or pull it up on my app, and I find my boarding pass attached to my ticket... Than maybe I'm for the system.


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

The ability to check in online that airlines are offering is a big plus. Usually you can print boarding docs at home or retrieve them from a kiosk, most also offer baggage check-in at kiosk with a bag drop counter, and that speeds things along.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 14, 2016)

ScouseAndy said:


> The software does exist but licenses still cost big money, and there is very little point in having such software when you are unable to guarantee that the coaches are going to be in the right order and facing the right way otherwise you are just making empty promises to customers which you cant meet.


Amtrak already owns the necessary software. Amtrak _could_ ensure the coaches were in a specific order and orientation. Amtrak _could_ use this predefined order and orientation to charge a premium for specific seats and views. Amtrak _chooses_ not to implement such a system. That's not to say there isn't a cost in time, labor, and fuel to move the cars around. It's just hard to imagine a once every few weeks shuffling (per consist and excepting bad orders) would be incapable of earning the cost back with specific seat/view assignment fees. With a bit of thinking and experimentation the process should be simple enough to anticipate and streamline. My guess is that a combination of poor customer reaction on the NEC, corporate inertia, aversion to change, and concern over dependable sorting by the Chicago staff has kept this project stuck in perpetual purgatory.



PVD said:


> Southwest absolutely requires check in, it is how they monitor how many people can board in reference to overbooking. They do allow it to be done online, up to 24 hrs ahead of the flight, and you can print a boarding card at the airport. That is where your boarding group shows up. If a ticketed passenger doesn't check in by a certain time, they may give your seat away.


Even in the case of Southwest you don't need to print anything (just use your phone or tablet) and you can set the check-in process to occur automatically. Back before the TSA infested our airports all you needed was an state ID to board a Southwest aircraft. It was a glorious time before a bunch of worrywarts carelessly gave away everyone's privacy for some temporary (and mostly theoretical) safety.


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## railbuck (Oct 14, 2016)

PVD said:


> The ability to check in online that airlines are offering is a big plus.


The ability to not "check in" at all that Amtrak and most passenger railroads around the world are offering is a big plus. If you have a ticket, whether paper or electronic, just go to the train. Why would there be a need for another step in the process?


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

The phone display works fine, just like it does for an e-ticket on Amtrak. The display takes the place of a printout. You are still checking in, which is the key point, not whether or not its a display or a piece of paper. If check in is required, there is no reason why it needs to be in person, the point was that it still has to occur. When I rode the old Eastern Shuttle, we paid on the plane, anybody still do that? The good old days are unlikely to come back, security (or what passes for it) is not likely to go away any time soon.


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

There isn't. Check in is not required. It is an added step that some may use to make the boarding process at a busy CUS better. You can still just show up and board after the groups. This gives early arriving or connecting passengers the opportunity to check in, and go do something else instead of standing in line to board earlier. It might be beneficial to a number of people, and like everything, some people will not like it. Time will tell. I've never gone through CUS as anything other than a sleeper passenger, It will neither benefit or harm me in a tangible manner.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 15, 2016)

How early can you get the boarding pass? For example, if I was going east on the CL or LSL could I check in at 8 AM and get near the front of general boarding? Also, if you are in the front of general boarding do you get to chose your seat within the car or is it still assigned by the conductor?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 15, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> How early can you get the boarding pass? For example, if I was going east on the CL or LSL could I check in at 8 AM and get near the front of general boarding? Also, if you are in the front of general boarding do you get to chose your seat within the car or is it still assigned by the conductor?


Whether or not seats are assigned is up to the Conductors or Car Attendants; some do assign whilst others allow for open seating, often having blocked out seats for groups and larger families.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 15, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> How early can you get the boarding pass? For example, if I was going east on the CL or LSL could I check in at 8 AM and get near the front of general boarding? Also, if you are in the front of general boarding do you get to chose your seat within the car or is it still assigned by the conductor?


Your e-ticket whether printed out or on your phone IS YOUR BOARDING PASS! The checkin at CUS is only for coach passengers. I do not know the earliest you can SHOW UP IN PERSON and get a "group" boarding assignment. CUS officially opens the Metropolitan Lounge at 6AM so I suspect that would be too early for coach passengers to show up in the Great Hall to get a group assignment. Actual boarding of the train and seat assignments will not change so, yes, conductor or car attendant may still assign you a seat if that is the normal procedure for that train in Chicago. Since coach passengers can check in(no paper document assigned) as Select Plus in the Metro Lounge or Legacy Lounge or the senior, non-uniform military, family with children under 12, handicap lounge reasonable time same day prior to boarding, I see no separate checkin document being created. How the general boarding from Great Hall will be or if prioritize, I do not know.


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## PVD (Oct 15, 2016)

In fairness to those with questions, the Amtrak memo is not clear on all points. It says check in with station personnel. Which ones and where? At baggage service, at the ticket counter, at some newly created place, or all of the above, it doesn't specify. It says you will be issued a boarding pass with a group, that is separate from your e-ticket, even though you could opt out and just board with your ticket. As has been pointed out, airlines permit online or kiosk check in, not requiring presence at the station, but you must check in, you can not board with a ticket alone. You (normally) need it to go through the TSA checkpoints, although they are routinely re-issued at the gates for upgrades, seat changes and the like. Many airline are a few steps ahead in there ability to deal with images, and that eliminates the paper card for some.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 15, 2016)

No... My southwest ticket is my boarding pass. Likewise for Delta. You can call it various names, but when I go to the airport I print out one ticket like piece of paper and that is it.


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## wwchi (Oct 15, 2016)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > How early can you get the boarding pass? For example, if I was going east on the CL or LSL could I check in at 8 AM and get near the front of general boarding? Also, if you are in the front of general boarding do you get to chose your seat within the car or is it still assigned by the conductor?
> ...


the past 2 weeks at CUS when I went to the south gate for my train, riding Bus Class, I had to show someone at the south lounge my ticket and the past 2 Thursdays I was given this sticker. They just told me to show it to them if I left the lounge area and came back. I'm not sure if these are what is being issued (as of today 10/15) but it might be. And yes to the other above poster - I said the same thing about it doesn't tell you WHO to see or WHERE for this boarding pass. Typical CUS style! LOL!

Found how to add the picture.


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## PVD (Oct 15, 2016)

An e-ticket nay become a boarding pass after you check in, even if that is from home. Many airlines don't have seat assignment for some classes of passenger until check in, regardless of whether you have a ticket. Unless you have special boarding status, your boarding group won't be on your ticket until you check in. Even with a ticket, if you don't check in by a designated time, they may give your seat away with little recourse to you.


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## SubwayNut (Oct 17, 2016)

Well this evening I ended a trip (by plane to O'Hare) with a quick CHI-SOB trip on the Lake Shore, my flight was a bit late so I got to CUS with about 15 minutes to spare before 9:30. I boarded normally by walking through the normal south boarding lounge to gate C and flashed my ticket at the gate dragons before walking out to the train. Never recieved anything like a boarding pass. I got out to the train and it was seat yourself with a chuck of seats with for parties of 2 or more. The sets of single seats had at least one person at them, so I sat down in one of the empty reserved seats since I'm getting off at the first stop. The attendant doesn't say anything, the conductor starts scanning tickets at 9:28 (after the 5 minute boarding cut-off occurred) and its a normal under an hour and a half ride back to South Bend, an hour faster and just a few dollars more than the South Shore Line!


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## wwchi (Oct 26, 2016)

anyone have any recent reports on how this is working? Curious about Bus Class as well as Coach


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## jis (Oct 27, 2016)

PVD said:


> An e-ticket nay become a boarding pass after you check in, even if that is from home. Many airlines don't have seat assignment for some classes of passenger until check in, regardless of whether you have a ticket. Unless you have special boarding status, your boarding group won't be on your ticket until you check in. Even with a ticket, if you don't check in by a designated time, they may give your seat away with little recourse to you.


That is correct. In case of all airlines the "ticket" is actually a document sitting in the computer. You can obtain a boarding pass(es) for specific segments listed in the ticket a limited time before the first departure of a set of connected segments. You use the boarding passes(es) to board the corresponding flight segments. If you don't obtain a boarding pass by checking in before a cutoff time you may forfeit the ticket if the rules of the fare makes it so, or you may be able to adjust the itinerary for a fee or not, again depending on the rules that apply to the fare for which the ticket was purchased. Even if you have a boarding pass, if you do not show up at the gate by a cutoff time, you may forfeit as if you had never obtained the boarding pass, unless it was the fault of the airline due to the late arrival of a connecting segment and such.

So no, the ticket is never the boarding pass on any airline these days. The ticket has a completely separate existence and lifecycle from that of a boarding pass.


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## gatelouse (Oct 27, 2016)

This evening at the Met Lounge, the front desk attendant marked our paper e-ticket receipts with a marker upon entering. Show the marked eticket to re-enter. One paper eticket per person; I had to get mine reprinted at the desk.

Didn't pay enough attention to the Great Hall boarding procedure. The Hall has signs for lines marked C, D, E and F. Each line has signs for boarding pass numbers 1-25, 26-50, and so on. A large, circular kiosk in the middle of the hall appears to be where the boarding passes are issued. It was closed when I walked by.

Earlier, I heard a snippet of a boarding announcement, "...numbers 1 to 50, line up at C..." Later, a boarding call, and passengers from the line(s) walked, kindergarten style, toward their gate.

Also, the train status monitors state that Great Hall boarding operates 8:30am-8:30pm only. The Lake Shore Limited at 9:30pm boards from the south lounge.

Edit: open access to the south lounge at 8:30pm; no evidence of boarding passes for the LSL. I see that the boarding "gates" at the south lounge are now labeled as Gates C, D, E, and F. Clearly this is not a coincidence.

Edit: eticket receipts for the Met Lounge, not boarding passes


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 28, 2016)

gatelouse said:


> Edit: open access to the south lounge at 8:30pm; no evidence of boarding passes for the LSL. I see that the boarding "gates" at the south lounge are now labeled as Gates C, D, E, and F. Clearly this is not a coincidence.


When I boarded business class for the Carl Sandburg Octobe 4 the south lounge doors were already labeled C, D, E, and F. I think this has as much to do with which track numbers the gate serves more than a boarding position. In fact, I was directed from Metropolitan lounge to gate C from which I still had priority boarding.


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## wwchi (Oct 28, 2016)

the south boarding gates have been C D E and F for over 10 years at least. That's not new, though there may be something to them naming the lines in the great hall C D E and F. Thanks for the update. Sounds like that system may work well for coach.


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## KmH (Oct 29, 2016)

MikefromCrete said:


> as I read the policy, you can show up five minutes before departure and get on. The whole boarding pass thing is for those who want to be first on the train to grab the best seats, etc.


Maybe.

"_Note that the boarding gates will close five minutes before train departure."_

If you're there 5:01 before departure, would you still get to board?


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## wwchi (Oct 29, 2016)

KmH said:


> MikefromCrete said:
> 
> 
> > as I read the policy, you can show up five minutes before departure and get on. The whole boarding pass thing is for those who want to be first on the train to grab the best seats, etc.
> ...


Over the years I have seen them pretty much stick to the 5 minutes, meaning I've seen people arrive just at the 5 minute mark and be allowed to board and I've seen people arrive just after the 5 minute mark and be denied. I've never seen them turn someone away before the last 5 minutes, though others may have.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 31, 2016)

KmH said:


> MikefromCrete said:
> 
> 
> > as I read the policy, you can show up five minutes before departure and get on. The whole boarding pass thing is for those who want to be first on the train to grab the best seats, etc.
> ...


I think it largely depends on if the person controlling the gate has the same time as you.


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