# Fire Up Norfolk & Western 611!



## Agent (Feb 24, 2013)

On Friday, the Virgina Museum of Transportation formed the Fire Up 611 Committee to study to feasibility of restoring steam engine run Norfolk & Western 611, which hasn't run in nearly 20 years. On the website, you can fill out a survey to help plan excursions and donate to help fund the study.

Fire Up 611!: http://fireup611.org/main/index.php

Their Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/fireup611


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 24, 2013)

Yeah, fire it up! I wanna see it in action!


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## railiner (Feb 24, 2013)

Me too! My favorite steam locomotive. Wish it was pulling that excursion around The Horseshoe Curve, instead of that Berkshire.......


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 24, 2013)

The Berkshire is cool too, but I like any 4-8-4. My favourite wheel config!


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## railiner (Feb 28, 2013)

The streamlined 611 kind of reminds me a little of some of Pennsy's streamlined locomotives. Would like to see the 611 temporarily in pinstripes with tuscan red and gold winged keystones, at least for an excursion around The Curve......


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 1, 2013)

railiner said:


> The streamlined 611 kind of reminds me a little of some of Pennsy's streamlined locomotives. Would like to see the 611 temporarily in pinstripes with tuscan red and gold winged keystones, at least for an excursion around The Curve......


Unfortunately, the PRR ones were not 4-8-4s, and were far less powerful.


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## railiner (Mar 1, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > The streamlined 611 kind of reminds me a little of some of Pennsy's streamlined locomotives. Would like to see the 611 temporarily in pinstripes with tuscan red and gold winged keystones, at least for an excursion around The Curve......
> ...


True. Most of the streamlined Pennsy steamer's were 4-6-2 K4s Pacific's. But there were those big T's and S's later on. Pennsy did not develope steam to the extant N&W did, as they adapted diesel power earlier.....


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## Acela150 (Mar 2, 2013)

While I love the 611 I have a feeling this could turn out to be like 1364, a project that runs out of funding and will never get finished. :unsure: My Dad and I have been waiting for years for 1364 to run the curve again. :help: Thanks a lot Steamtown for screwing up the rivets... :angry2:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 3, 2013)

What's the 1364? I could find no information online.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 3, 2013)

I am no expert on locomotives but I know a beaut when I see one. And J class is just that. While I never rode behind a J in revenue service I have ridden 611 on various excursions

Also I remember seeing one in 1953. We were driving from Danville, VA to Chattanooga. I got a glimpse of a J on the southbound Tennessean stopped in Bristol, VA TN. It would have been removing itself since Southern RR took over with a diesel from Bristol to points south..

That reminds me of the fact that the Tennessean to Memphis, the Pelican to New Orleans and the Birmingham Special to Birmingham all ran on the same railroad twice.

That is, through sleepers from New York to Washington on the Pennsylvania GG 1, Southern diesel from Washington to Monroe., J class Monroe to Bristol on the Norfolk and Western and then revert to Southern diesel below that.

Also that meant not only riding the Southern RR twice in the same journey it also meant riding behind all three kinds of power for people in thru pullmans from New New York.

The whole kind of brief saga of streamlined steam is interesting. Some locos ,like j class were streamlined from the ground up and others were rebuilt, sometimes very extensively.

They came in with streamlined passenger trains,essentially. But diesels popped up about the same time frame and the rest is history

I always felt the reason Norfolk and Western held onto steam as long as it did was because it ran through heavy coal mining territory

Last but not least, the N&W is better known for the Powhatan Arrow, the Pocahontas and the Cavalier. Norfolk to Cincinnati and such runs, more so than the three trains noted above. And a few others besides that.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 3, 2013)

How was the Pelican compared to other Southern trains? Equipment, serivce, etc. I don't know much about it.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 3, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> How was the Pelican compared to other Southern trains? Equipment, serivce, etc. I don't know much about it.


it was slower and made more stops than the other two mentioned. But not so many stops as to be considered a local.

It was a heavyweigtht train, two nights out, Washington, Lynchburg, Roanoke, Bristol, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Birmingham, Meridian, New Orleans. Through streamlined sleepers from New York.

Also a heavyweight sleeper from Washington to Shreveport, via Illinois Central at Meridian.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 3, 2013)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > How was the Pelican compared to other Southern trains? Equipment, serivce, etc. I don't know much about it.
> ...


For some reason I got really interested with this train. I don't really understand the combo of Pelican, Crescent, Piedmont, and Southerner. It dosen't seem to be the good old "top train plus secondary train" like on the Great Northern.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 3, 2013)

The Crescent and Piedmont Limited go via Atlanta Montgomery mobile to New Orleans

The Southerner went via atlanta birmingjhm meridian

The Pelican went roanoke, bristol,knoxville,chattanooga,birmiingham meridian new orleans

The Crescent and the Souhernerr often had glowing ads in the timetable and were listed as streamlined stainless steel in regular timetable listings.The Piedmont and Pelican and some rains which did not go all the way yo new orleans were secondary\

It is not always as exacting as it was with GN. There was no national system which said things always had to be a certain way. It had a lot to do with evolution


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 3, 2013)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> The Crescent and Piedmont Limited go via Atlanta Montgomery mobile to New Orleans
> The Southerner went via atlanta birmingjhm meridian
> 
> The Pelican went roanoke, bristol,knoxville,chattanooga,birmiingham meridian new orleans
> ...


It sure is confusing though. I always wondered why the Southerner was an all-coach streamliner, why no sleepers?


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 4, 2013)

The Southerner did get sleepers as far as Birmingham about 1949, later all the way

A lot of southeastern lines in particular felt that any sleeper was in every case superior to any coach.Their marketing departments mistakenly felt that upgrading coaches made it unnecessary to buy streamlined sleepers.

Examples of streamliners that were all coach at first were: Southerner, Dixie Flagler. South Wind, City of Miami, Silver Meteor,Georgian, Humming Bird. East Coast Champion, probably others They eventually got sleepers sometimes heavyweight af first.

The above trains were mostly new, adding to the fleet. Lack of sleepers was not a problem at least not at first. But the Tennessean,also a streamliner, replaced a specific train, the Memphis Special. Lack of sleepers on an existing train proved to be a serious mistake. Old heavyweight sleepers were quickly restored to it. Later some of the sleepers were streamlined,about 1949 the same order in which the Southerner got some sleepers .And that same order re equipped the Crescent and the Royal Palm.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 4, 2013)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> The Southerner did get sleepers as far as Birmingham about 1949, later all the way
> A lot of southeastern lines in particular felt that any sleeper was in every case superior to any coach.Their marketing departments mistakenly felt that upgrading coaches made it unnecessary to buy streamlined sleepers.
> 
> Examples of streamliners that were all coach at first were: Southerner, Dixie Flagler. South Wind, City of Miami, Silver Meteor,Georgian, Humming Bird. East Coast Champion, probably others They eventually got sleepers sometimes heavyweight af first.
> ...


I remember hearing about many all-coach trains travelling long-distances and thinking, "People really wanted to sit for that long?" because I always get a sleeper when going overnight. I guess BHM was sure an important city back then, maybe more so than ATL, but it's a wreck now.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 5, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > The Southerner did get sleepers as far as Birmingham about 1949, later all the way
> ...


Beyond the southeast there were other all coach streamliners, like Santa Fe El Capitan, UP Challenger,PRR Trail Blazer, NYC Pacemaker, etc

Keep in mind the greater comfort level with a streamlined coach, such as air conditioning, reclining seats at least with footrest even if not full leg rest, more room between seats, largrer restrooms. Some had on board nurses. Some few trains, I think one was on the B&O. had some cars just for women with children.  And keep in mind that most streamliners were hours faster.

Of course many heavyweight coaches were eventually equipped with air conditioning and reclining seats.

BHM trains

L&N Station, the one now used by Amtrak. built new about 1960

Humming Bird, Pan American, Azalean Cincinnati to New Orleans/The Humming Bird also had a section to Chicago and St.Louis

South Wind Chicago to Miami

Terminal Station, long since torn down

Southern's Southerner, Pelican, Birmingham Special, nameless local fomerly known as the Queev and Crescent

ALSO Southern and Frisco Kansas City Florida Special and Sunnyland also a nameless overnight locsl from BHM to ATL

Seaboard Silver Comet and two nameless locals

Illinois Central and Central of Georgia City of Miami and Seminole

I have probably left some out but this was still quite a big less than Atlanta but a lot more than today.

It is striking to look over this and realize that at one time there were three routes to Chicago. That would be the South Wind, the City of Miami=Seminole and the Humming BIrd


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 5, 2013)

Too bad all that is gone. Only the Crescent remains and it serves a nonexistent station. The one built around 1960 has also been demolished.


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