# Why not stopovers on AGR trip?



## Tumbleweed (Aug 5, 2013)

What exactly is the reason(s) for not allowing stopovers on an AGR award trip? I don't believe it makes any difference in cost when you purchase a ticket that includes a stopover and I can't see where it would cost Amtrak any more to allow stopovers on an AGR trip.....but then I may be missing something? :help:


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## Ryan (Aug 5, 2013)

You can't purchase a ticket with stopovers either.


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## Tumbleweed (Aug 5, 2013)

Doesn't multi-city allow stopovers?


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## Ryan (Aug 5, 2013)

That just allows you to buy two different tickets at once.

Example:

Booking CHI-WPT on tomorrow's 7, then WPT-SEA on a later train yields a total cost of $576.

Booking straight through CHI-SEA on the same train is only $386 (for this Tuesday, only $297 for next week's train).

You can do the stopover, but you have to pay as if it were 2 separate trips. Just like AGR.


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## amamba (Aug 5, 2013)

Ryan said:


> You can't purchase a ticket with stopovers either.


Yes you can. You can purchase a ticket BOS - NYP - WAS on the acela with stopover in NYC and pay the through rate of BOS - WAS. You get 500 points for each BC segment and then you can stay in NYC for up to 24 hours.

People talk about doing this on flyertalk all the time for the extra points, they generally just wait an hour in NYC and then take the next available train.


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## amamba (Aug 5, 2013)

Ryan said:


> That just allows you to buy two different tickets at once.
> Example:
> 
> Booking CHI-WPT on tomorrow's 7, then WPT-SEA on a later train yields a total cost of $576.
> ...


Go ahead and try it on the acela BOS - WAS in multi-city. I just tested it. Still getting $171 for acela and $76 for the NER with stopovers, which is the same price as the through fare.

I just tried for October 17 to price it out.


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## amamba (Aug 5, 2013)

I believe it only works if the stopover is less than 24 hours. This is presumably the same rule as with AGR.


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## Ryan (Aug 5, 2013)

I'd never noticed that before, that's pretty nice!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 5, 2013)

Remember AGR has always allowed Stopovers in New Orleans on your own Nickel due to no connections between LD Trains and a few of our members have also gotten to do this in LAX and CHI! The 23.5 Hour Layoiver Policy from AGR should also allow Stopovers when there is no Direct Connection between LD Trains! ( for example, #22 to #7/#27 in CHI )


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 5, 2013)

Tumbleweed said:


> What exactly is the reason(s) for not allowing stopovers on an AGR award trip? I don't believe it makes any difference in cost when you purchase a ticket that includes a stopover and I can't see where it would cost Amtrak any more to allow stopovers on an AGR trip.....but then I may be missing something? :help:


The rule on the stop over, is under 24 hours I believe. So unless there is another train leaving the same place in less than 24 hours from when you stop as is the case in the NEC and Acela, the stop over is not available on one trip. I do think that it is available in cities where there is no train leaving until the following day like New Orleans, but I don't know that for sure.


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## SubwayNut (Aug 5, 2013)

Stopovers have to be less than 24 hours to allow through fares and the higher bucket price applies for the whole trip. (but not prices of individual segments). It's how I've earned S+ and I've photographed most of the stations on my website.

Strangely I thought it didn't apply to Acela tickets but it looks like it does (at least now), guess I'll have to add on a NYP-NWK segment to my Acela trip next week for an extra 100 AGR points! since why not? 850 points then (I'll upgrade the BOS-NYP trip) in my quest for S+ next year for $109. BOS-NYP is the same fare as BOS-NWK. It will be fun trying to explain my reasoning to an agent when I upgrade the first trip but not the second.


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## amamba (Aug 5, 2013)

SubwayNut said:


> Stopovers have to be less than 24 hours to allow through fares and the higher bucket price applies for the whole trip. (but not prices of individual segments). It's how I've earned S+ and I've photographed most of the stations on my website.
> Strangely I thought it didn't apply to Acela tickets but it looks like it does (at least now), guess I'll have to add on a NYP-NWK segment to my Acela trip next week for an extra 100 AGR points! since why not? 850 points then (I'll upgrade the BOS-NYP trip) in my quest for S+ next year for $109. BOS-NYP is the same fare as BOS-NWK. It will be fun trying to explain my reasoning to an agent when I upgrade the first trip but not the second.


Supposedly your upgrade coupons will work on both segments of an acela that you book as multi-ride with a stopover. At least according to the folks on flyertalk, I've never tried. So if you book multi-city BOS - NYP - WAS you should get 1500 points with one upgrade coupon.


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## Slasharoo (Aug 5, 2013)

I just checked a route I will be taking an AGR redemption on next month...Santa Barbara to Milwaukee. $572 CS to EB. Then I checked the multi city in two sections, Santa Barbara to Portland, then two days later Portland to Milwaukee and it was the exact same price. It would be nice if you could split AGR redemptions that way.


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## SubwayNut (Aug 5, 2013)

Wait, I'm going to have First Class on my one upgrade coupon for the 14 minute ride from NYP to NWK? that will make things interesting since I was having a feeling that I will spend the ride trying to find the conductor to make sure my ticket gets scanned for the extra 100 AGR points. (I do NYP to NWK AGR point run adds-on to my Amtrak trips with some frequency since I've learned its a basically free way (I spend a dollar or two more on a couple trips) (well $1.70 for PATH or whatever it deducts from my Smart link card since I buy them 10 at a time) to get an extra 100 AGR points in less than an hour.

I don't need to go to DC although only $171 for 1,500 points before bonuses isn't to shabby. Makes me want to try a BOS-NYP-NWK-MET-WAS trip that I guess would earn 1,700 points. Don't quite have the time though on Wednesday after I return to go down to DC. Well I guess I'll see what happens on this trip and keep that emergency plan in mind in case I'm ever desperate for AGR Points.

MET-WAS is the most southern Acela city pairs for the 7,500 points I think.


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## Anthony (Aug 6, 2013)

no, an upgrade coupon is only valid for a single segment.


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## jerichowhiskey (Aug 6, 2013)

Interesting, I can stop in Philly for a bit and then board a later train to DC doing this.


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## amamba (Aug 7, 2013)

Anthony said:


> no, an upgrade coupon is only valid for a single segment.


The folks on flyertalk disagree. YMMV. I have never attempted it.

ETA: It might be that some folks are just smooth talkers and have been able to convince phone agents to do this when it is against the rules. I am just reporting what I have read on the other site and am not actually aware of what the rules are regarding this. It is certainly possible its against the rules but that some have done it anyways.


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## Anthony (Aug 7, 2013)

amamba said:


> Anthony said:
> 
> 
> > no, an upgrade coupon is only valid for a single segment.
> ...





(hmm, I'm being told that my attachment isn't visible - can you see it?)


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## KayBee (Aug 7, 2013)

I see an attachment (coupon_rest.jpg), but get a statement that I do not have permission to view the attachment....


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## Ryan (Aug 8, 2013)

Same here. See, you leave and the place falls apart!


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## MrFSS (Aug 8, 2013)

See it here?


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## Anthony (Aug 8, 2013)

It could be some quirk about my downgraded account.


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## Ryan (Aug 8, 2013)

Can't see Tom's either.


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## MrFSS (Aug 8, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Can't see Tom's either.


Strange - as I see mine and Anthony's.

Will have to look into this problem.

Can you see this one?


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## PRR 60 (Aug 8, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> See it here?
> 
> 
> 
> coupon_rest.jpg


Fot those who cannot see it, the coupon says:



> Coupon valid for one (1) space-available, one-class upgrade. Valid only from Coach to Business Class, or from Acela Business Class to Acela First Class on a single travel segment or leg.


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## Ryan (Aug 8, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Can't see Tom's either.
> ...


Yep, that works.

I could see the links for the attachments in both of your posts, but when I click on it it says I don't have permission.


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## MrFSS (Aug 8, 2013)

Ryan said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


This one is from a third party hosting site. Hmmmm . . .


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## MrFSS (Aug 8, 2013)

I changed a setting - can you see it now?


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## AG1 (Aug 8, 2013)

Until this year the upgrade coupon was good for a *"trip"* not a just a *"travel segment or leg "*.

I have that statement in emails from two previous _AGR Insiders_ who replaced extra upgrade coupons I was required to use when agents mistakenly asked for multiple coupons on _Multi-City_ ticketing.

The upgrade coupons should be good for a trip not segments.There is no extra cost to Amtrak for trips using _Multi-City_ ticketing versus regular ticketing.. Why are they charging their customers with coupons more too travel with_ Multi-City_ ticketing than a regular ticket .

Example---Both trips the same distance, same day, and same FC service provided.
Acela trip A-C R_egular _ticket costs $200. Upgrade to FC costs one coupon ($100).
Acela trip A-B-C _Multi-City_ ticket costs $200. Upgrade to FC costs two coupons($200).


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## Ryan (Aug 8, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> I changed a setting - can you see it now?
> 
> 
> 
> coupon_rest.jpg


Yes sir, that fixed it!


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## pennyk (Aug 8, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> See it here?
> 
> 
> 
> coupon_rest.jpg


I still cannot see it - but I know what it says.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 8, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> See it here?
> 
> 
> 
> coupon_rest.jpg


I see it on my iPod.


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## amamba (Aug 9, 2013)

I wonder if they specifically changed the language to segment because of the popularity on FT of booking multi-city to garner the extra bonuses?

Intriguing.


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## AG1 (Aug 9, 2013)

amamba said:


> I wonder if they specifically changed the language to segment because of the popularity on FT of booking multi-city to garner the extra bonuses?
> Intriguing.


I have been using Multi-city ticketing long before I ever heard of FlyerTalk forums.

The _Multi-city_ ticketing option is offered by Amtrak and is, therefore, a legitimate option. AGR apparently does not think that is a legitimate option for upgrade coupon use, thereby requiring multiple coupons for a _Multi-city_ ticket. AGR set the program up to give points based on dollars spent or city pairs ticketed. There is no gaming the system here. There is no loophole. We purchase what is offered by Amtrak . We expect AGR too recognize the _Multi-city_ ticketing as a legitimate ticketing function.

*If the two types of tickets cost the same then the upgrades should cost the same, not double. *


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2013)

I always thought a connection of less than 24 hours was called a layover rather than a stopover. I do agree that having actual stopovers at major connecting points on AGR awards would be a great improvement for customers and Amtrak alike. Why should the transit customer have to stress about missed connections and downgraded accommodations? Why should the transportation provider have to pay for lodging and meals when the customer is willing and happy to cover their time on their own dime so long as they can plan for it? Give the customer the option of a single stopover per award and everybody benefits. Or at least that's how I see it. I'm sure there's another side to this where anything that changes the status quo is a terrible idea.


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## Anthony (Aug 9, 2013)

Accommodation charges are always point to point, and don't quite work the same as a through rail fare. Amtrak generally charges more if you break up your occupancy of an accommodation over two trains as opposed to staying on the same train for the entire distance, reflecting what the market will bear for those shorter distances as independent tickets. That is why the coupons are only valid for a single segment - there really is a higher sale value for two separate tickets than just one.



RRRick said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if they specifically changed the language to segment because of the popularity on FT of booking multi-city to garner the extra bonuses?
> ...


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## AG1 (Aug 9, 2013)

Anthony said:


>





Anthony said:


> Accommodation charges are always point to point, and don't quite work the same as a through rail fare. Amtrak generally charges more if you break up your occupancy of an accommodation over two trains as opposed to staying on the same train for the entire distance, reflecting what the market will bear for those shorter distances as independent tickets. That is why the coupons are only valid for a single segment - there really is a higher sale value for two separate tickets than just one.


It was standard Amtrak operating procedure for one upgrade coupon too cover both legs of a same day Multi-city ticket until this year. I can produce twenty or more tickets where I did this over five years. Perhaps you and other riders did not know that was allowed. I have AGR emails from 2012 and 2010 affirming that only one coupon was needed. It just makes sense that the upgrade charge should be the same for tickets that cost the same between same end points with the same services provided. Please see my example again.

Example: Both trips the same distance, same day, and same FC service provided.

Acela trip A-C R_egular _ticket costs *$200*. Upgrade to FC *one* coupon ($100 value). FC if paid with cash =*$100*

Acela trip A-B-C _Multi-City_ ticket costs *$200*. Upgrade to FC *two* coupons(*$200* value).

*If the two types of tickets cost the same then the upgrades should cost the same, not double. *

This many year Select+ rider has severely reduced my Acela trips because of this new change.


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## Anthony (Aug 9, 2013)

First class accom charge on Acela, WAS-BOS = $130

First class accom charge on Acela, WAS-NYP ($116) + NYP-BOS ($83) = $199

Not quite double, sure, but more nonetheless.


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## AG1 (Aug 9, 2013)

Anthony said:


> First class accom charge on Acela, WAS-BOS = $130First class accom charge on Acela, WAS-NYP ($116) + NYP-BOS ($83) = $199
> 
> Not quite double, sure, but more nonetheless.


That is true for those particular stations,but I have never paid cash for Acela First Class.

The point is that using upgrade coupons, I now have to pay double what I did during the last five years for the same FC upgrades ! That is a 50% devaluation of the AGR coupon incentive program for those of us using legal Multi-city ticketing. I have lost the incentive too try for Select + for next year.


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## winterskigirl (Aug 12, 2013)

I just did a trip using my AGR points from STL-KCY then KCY-LAX and I chose a 7 hour layover in Kansas City, MO I wasn't aware of the "24 hour" rule. Just wondering, is that stipulated on the AGR website?


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## jersey42 (Aug 12, 2013)

Here are the two pertinent bullet points from the AGR website.


_Where a published route requires a connection between two segments, a later connecting service may be chosen as long as it departs on the same date as the connection originally offered._
_Where a published route contains a valid connection of 23 hours, 30 minutes or less, an overnight stay in the connecting city is permitted at the passenger's own expense. (Example: one-way travel from New York to El Paso, where the published route requires an overnight connection in New Orleans, would be permitted on the same redemption.)_
It sounds like you may have taken advantage of the first one.


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## SubwayNut (Aug 13, 2013)

Currently on Acela #2175 crawling down Metro-North's New Haven Line (Feel like I'm almost home in distance but not in time) in First Class on a MultiCity Ticket BOS-NYP-NWK (NYP-NWK tomorrow). I had a very friendly agent in the Boston ClubAcela upgrade me (who was nice enough to accept an upgrade coupon that expired at the end of July, I also had a currently valid coupon) and got an apology that no, all segments on a multi-city ticket no longer are upgraded (she seemed to know about the previous policy) when you use a coupon. I didn't really care about my 14 minute NYP to NWK ride in First Class for the extra 100 AGR points free of charge for only PATH fare back but its good to know for next time that if I ever book BOS-NYP-WAS I need two upgrade coupons.


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## jis (Aug 14, 2013)

I truly find it a matter of some amusement when people try to tell Anthony what the AGR rules are  I usually go to ask him what they really are after I have heard half a dozen interpretations about what each individual thinks they are.


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## AG1 (Aug 14, 2013)

jis said:


> I truly find it a matter of some amusement when people try to tell Anthony what the AGR rules are  I usually go to ask him what they really are after I have heard half a dozen interpretations about what each individual thinks they are.


This doesn't sound like the Jisnu that I have met and traveled with. I have re read the entire thread and nobody including myself has said that Anthony's post was in error. I respect what Anthony has accomplished with this forum. I replied to Anthony's post with my actual experiences using AGR upgrade coupons on Multi-city ticketing for the *past* five years. AGR affirmed in emails to me that the coupons were good for complete trips not segments and replaced coupons that I was charge extra. *This has all changed with the 2013 upgrade coupons* and Anthony, myself, and others confirm this change.My posts have questioned why AGR in 2013 has decided to devalue it's coupon reward program by not recognizing the validity of Multi-city ticketing for through trips. That is all.


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## amamba (Aug 14, 2013)

jis said:


> I truly find it a matter of some amusement when people try to tell Anthony what the AGR rules are  I usually go to ask him what they really are after I have heard half a dozen interpretations about what each individual thinks they are.


I don't think anyone is telling Anthony what the AGR rules are. I think we are just saying that in the past multi-city ticketing on acela worked with one upgrade coupon. I myself speculated that maybe folks were breaking the rules in actually doing that in the past or got generous agents who didn't actually know the rules, since with Amtrak, as we all know, YMMV.

Clearly the policy changed for 2013. No one knows why. Maybe Anthony knows why and can tell us. Maybe someone will go pester the AGR insider and ask on FT.


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## jis (Aug 14, 2013)

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! Where is the White Flag for me to wave! :help:


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## pennyk (Aug 15, 2013)

jis said:


> Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! Where is the White Flag for me to wave! :help:


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## winterskigirl (Aug 30, 2013)

Found this on the AGR website: 

Where a published route contains a valid connection of 23 hours, 30 minutes or less, an overnight stay in the connecting city is permitted at the passenger's own expense. (Example: one-way travel from New York to El Paso, where the published route requires an overnight connection in New Orleans, would be permitted on the same redemption.

https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/info/redemptionguidelines


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