# In Flight Entertainment Systems (IFE)



## v v (Feb 3, 2022)

jis said:


> You will have the very good moving map display on the screen in front of you or on your smartphone/iPad/Kindle depending on how you connect with the IFE. That will show you more or less precisely what you are flying over.



jis, bear with me as I'm not too interested in tech stuff, but what is IFE ? Is internet on board a flight usually an extra cost or available to everyone within the ticket price. When we travel I use a small laptop, more or less just use the phone as a phone.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 3, 2022)

v v said:


> jis, bear with me as I'm not too interested in tech stuff, but what is IFE ? Is internet on board a flight usually an extra cost or available to everyone within the ticket price. When we travel I use a small laptop, more or less just use the phone as a phone.


IFE = In-Flight Entertainment, namely the seatback screen in front of you (or from inside the armrest for bulkhead and emergency exits). Internet is an extra cost on almost every airline.


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## PVD (Feb 3, 2022)

Some of the airlines have moved IFE to streaming and either issue tablets, or you bring your own device. Out of NYC, JetBlue does provide free internet everyone else is $ as far as I know.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2022)

PVD said:


> Some of the airlines have moved IFE to streaming and either issue tablets, or you bring your own device. Out of NYC, JetBlue does provide free internet everyone else is $ as far as I know.


AFAIR United has both seatback screen and free streaming of a limited program from an on board source, and that includes moving maps and such. In addition you can pay to get internet connectivity off board. AFAIR this is on their new international planes (77W,78x) and being progressively retrofitted to their older international planes.


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## PVD (Feb 3, 2022)

It is an interesting divide in the industry, some airlines are trying to eliminate seatback screens, and others are doubling down on them and making them larger and better.


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## MARC Rider (Feb 3, 2022)

jis said:


> AFAIR United has both seatback screen and free streaming of a limited program from an on board source, and that includes moving maps and such. In addition you can pay to get internet connectivity off board.


That was my experience when I flew United internationally. On the other hand, Southwest had you connect your device (phone, tablet, laptop) to on-board wifi, where you get a moving map and some limited entertainment (with ads, if I remember correctly) free, and you can pay for more and internet.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> That was my experience when I flew United internationally. On the other hand, Southwest had you connect your device (phone, tablet, laptop) to on-board wifi, where you get a moving map and some limited entertainment (with ads, if I remember correctly) free, and you can pay for more and internet.


United was going the Southwest way in the waning days of Smisek. But they reversed course and specially of late have been aggressively standardizing on the way you saw on their international flights. I am not sure what they are doing on domestic only aircraft. The restoration and standardization accelerated with Scott Kirby taking over as CEO, though it had started in Munoz's time.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2022)

Moderator'S Notes: IFE related discussion moved here from:





__





Getting to America... will we, won't we?


A mini travelogue A few minutes after midnight 31 January 2022 Just had this idea of being 6 1/2 days away from getting on a United plane from London Heathrow for San Francisco and recording the mini travelogue we will make to do that. Our destination is Chatsworth (CWT), Los Angeles, our...




www.amtraktrains.com


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## Trogdor (Feb 3, 2022)

jis said:


> United was going the Southwest way in the waning days of Smisek. But they reversed course and specially of late have been aggressively standardizing on the way you saw on their international flights. I am not sure what they are doing on domestic only aircraft. The restoration and standardization accelerated with Scott Kirby taking over as CEO, though it had started in Munoz's time.



While the rollout is going to be a bit slow, UA is planning to put seatback screens on their (non-RJ?) domestic fleet. The MAX 8 and any new deliveries going forward will feature these screens, and supposedly any planes with more than a few years of life left in them will get them retrofitted. https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/company/new-and-improved-united-airlines-fleet.html


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## Exvalley (Feb 3, 2022)

If they are going to have streaming to devices, they really need to get more seats installed with a clip on the seatback to hold your tablet. American Airlines has a pretty good design, but those seats are few and far between.


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## Ryan (Feb 3, 2022)

jis said:


> United was going the Southwest way in the waning days of Smisek. But they reversed course and specially of late have been aggressively standardizing on the way you saw on their international flights. I am not sure what they are doing on domestic only aircraft. The restoration and standardization accelerated with Scott Kirby taking over as CEO, though it had started in Munoz's time.


Is Channel 9 still pretty much dead? Was always the best part of a flight.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Is Channel 9 still pretty much dead? Was always the best part of a flight.


Theoretically it was there the last time I flew in early 2020, but it was never activated.


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## Exvalley (Feb 3, 2022)

jis said:


> Theoretically it was there the last time I flew in early 2020, but it was never activated.


It's very hit or miss, with a lot more misses than hits.


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## BCL (Feb 3, 2022)

v v said:


> jis, bear with me as I'm not too interested in tech stuff, but what is IFE ? Is internet on board a flight usually an extra cost or available to everyone within the ticket price. When we travel I use a small laptop, more or less just use the phone as a phone.



Depends on the airline and/or the aircraft. I remember way back in the 90s, I flew first class once and while the movies only looped, we all had personal displays and could select from several channels. The traditional method was to have just regular TVs and one watches the movie from just a few in the cabin.

By about 2007, personal seat back displays were more common although they were generally just looping the same content rather than any kind of on demand content. I flew on one of the newer 777s back then, but on an older 747 going back home. The older plane still had CRTs. Maybe one at each bulkhead and several that dropped down from the ceiling.

I guess the latest is inflight movies on demand. They can be through a seatback display although a lot of shorter range aircraft don't have them. Inflight Wi-Fi can be used to stream content to passengers. It doesn't necessarily need internet access because the systems have all the content already stored on a server on the plane. Satellite internet may be available, although how it's paid for varies. There might be a charge per 4 hours, and entire flight, or even a monthly rate for frequent travelers. I think some are even a network across different airlines.

The content might require installation of an app on certain devices - like gogo Inflight. A few airlines build their entertainment systems into their general purpose airline apps. But many will just bring up the sign-in/payment information when one tries to pull up any web page. I've rarely paid for it since it can be pricey (and unreliable) but often they might have direct access for free to specific websites - especially the airline.

In kind of unrelated stuff, I do remember the time we needed to get visas after booking overseas travel, but forgot to print out an itinerary or ticket receipt. The consulate referred us to a computer service place, but it was closed. We asked at a hotel and they said they had paid internet access (using a credit card) at a computer in the corridor. But we checked and they strangely had a free "boarding pass" printing option with free access to several airline websites (including our airline). We could pull up our reservation that way and the printing was free. I'm not sure if it was meant for non-guests to use for free, but an employee sent us there so I didn't feel bad about it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 3, 2022)

PVD said:


> Some of the airlines have moved IFE to streaming and either issue tablets, or you bring your own device. [...] It is an interesting divide in the industry, some airlines are trying to eliminate seatback screens, and others are doubling down on them and making them larger and better.


Having seatback screens is a nice benefit for long haul but for domestic flights I'm fine using my own devices and content to avoid having my music or movie interrupted to hear another ELI5 announcement.



PVD said:


> Out of NYC, JetBlue does provide free internet everyone else is $ as far as I know.


You can receive free airborne internet through mobile and ISP benefits but outside of B6 I'm not aware of any airline that provides internet for free with your airfare. Airline websites work in mobile mode without paying.



Ryan said:


> Is Channel 9 still pretty much dead? Was always the best part of a flight.





jis said:


> Theoretically it was there the last time I flew in early 2020, but it was never activated.


When I was flying UA regularly CH9 was typically disabled on departure but the flight deck would often turn it on if you asked the purser to request it for you. Need to be on UA-ordered mainline aircraft though.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 3, 2022)

Please don't laugh when you read this post. I am a new smartphone owner and I am trying to learn how to use the phone. What is "airplane mode" and how does one activate it?


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## Ryan (Feb 3, 2022)

Airplane mode turns off the cellular radio.

How it is activated depends on the kind of phone you have.


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## Barb Stout (Feb 4, 2022)

What is Channel 9?


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## Ryan (Feb 4, 2022)

Audio feed of pilot to ATC communications.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 4, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Airplane mode turns off the cellular radio.
> 
> How it is activated depends on the kind of phone you have.



I have a Samsung Galaxy A12.


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## joelkfla (Feb 4, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> I have a Samsung Galaxy A12.


Things move around some between different versions of Android, but if you pull down the top of the screen, you'll probably see a row of buttons for quick settings. If one of them isn't a picture of an airplane, pull down again to see more buttons.

If you still can't find an airplane, open Settings and look for it. You'll have to select a category to find it. On my phone, it's in the Connections settings. Some versions of Android have a Search button at the top of the Settings screen to find a setting.

In addition to turning off cellular, Airplane Mode should also turn off Wi-Fi. You just need to turn Wi-Fi back on by hitting the Wi-Fi button in the quick settings.


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## adamj023 (Feb 4, 2022)

Lots of IFE systems in use, and some airlines have many different systems across their fleets. Some are wireless based, others are based on different satellite systems. Some planes and some airlines don’t have IFE installed. As airlines get newer planes and rehabilitate seating, IFE gets more commonly installed over time with newer and better systems in place. Im surprised that some airlines forgo IFE altogether as I would think it would be a useful way to selectively target ads and generate profit and could have some sort of content attached. The big screens in First Class on many airlines look extremely nice and these systems keep improving.


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## BCL (Feb 4, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Having seatback screens is a nice benefit for long haul but for domestic flights I'm fine using my own devices and content to avoid having my music or movie interrupted to hear another ELI5 announcement.



Seatback displays are horrible, especially if the seat leans back. I know some can tilt a little, but it's not great. I always preferred the ones that came out of the armrest. These are often found in bulkhead or exit row seats. Sometimes in business or first.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 4, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Things move around some between different versions of Android, but if you pull down the top of the screen, you'll probably see a row of buttons for quick settings. If one of them isn't a picture of an airplane, pull down again to see more buttons.
> 
> If you still can't find an airplane, open Settings and look for it. You'll have to select a category to find it. On my phone, it's in the Connections settings. Some versions of Android have a Search button at the top of the Settings screen to find a setting.
> 
> In addition to turning off cellular, Airplane Mode should also turn off Wi-Fi. You just need to turn Wi-Fi back on by hitting the Wi-Fi button in the quick settings.



Thank you for your advice. I miss my 3G flip phone.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 4, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> What is Channel 9?


Usually it's something like jazz music but sometimes it's set to air traffic control. The last time I was on a UA flight I was unsure how to bring up CH9 anymore. I think it only works with pre-2010 UA specific hardware.



adamj023 said:


> Im surprised that some airlines forgo IFE altogether as I would think it would be a useful way to selectively target ads and generate profit and could have some sort of content attached.


Personal IFE systems include a substantial weight penalty that can push some flights into the red.



BCL said:


> Seatback displays are horrible, especially if the seat leans back. I know some can tilt a little, but it's not great. I always preferred the ones that came out of the armrest. These are often found in bulkhead or exit row seats. Sometimes in business or first.


Early front projection screens were horrible. The washed out visuals, clumsy pulldown screens, air tube audio, and limited content left a lot to be desired. The 1990's-era AVOD systems were a major improvement by comparison. These days it's the excessive advertising and forced freezing during every public address that annoys me.


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## BCL (Feb 5, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Early front projection screens were horrible. The washed out visuals, clumsy pulldown screens, air tube audio, and limited content left a lot to be desired. The 1990's-era AVOD systems were a major improvement by comparison. These days it's the excessive advertising and forced freezing during every public address that annoys me.


I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s (before high def) I heard some AV shop employee claiming that a fancy front projector with a line doubler was as close to movie theater quality as possible. But now I've got just a basic 55" LCD and there is no way anything from the 90s that cost $25K to set up comes even close to the picture quality.

I do remember my first flight in a 747-400, and I believe that was a combination of front projection and CRTs popping down from the ceiling. I found a photo from Boeing of a typical armrest display from a 747-400. Obviously in first or business the additional legroom makes it difficult to see what's on a seatback display. There were a bunch of different ways to do this. I believe a lot of bulkhead seats also have displays and trays popping out of the armrest area, where they're stowed away under a hatch or lid.







But I still don't like a screen in the back of a seat. Personal devices are just better for that.


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## MARC Rider (Feb 5, 2022)

BCL said:


> Seatback displays are horrible, especially if the seat leans back. I know some can tilt a little, but it's not great. I always preferred the ones that came out of the armrest. These are often found in bulkhead or exit row seats. Sometimes in business or first.


This might be a matter of personal taste. I had no problem with a seatback display on my long international flight. On shorter domestic flights, I really don't care, as I can use my device perfectly well, and mainly what I look at is the free moving map, so I can assure myself that the hell I'm enduring will be over soon enough.


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## adamj023 (Feb 5, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Usually it's something like jazz music but sometimes it's set to air traffic control. The last time I was on a UA flight I was unsure how to bring up CH9 anymore. I think it only works with pre-2010 UA specific hardware.
> 
> 
> Personal IFE systems include a substantial weight penalty that can push some flights into the red.
> ...



Disagree on weight penalty. The technology industry has evolved to the point you can have a very low cost, lightweight and low electrical usage system for creating a scaled down IFE system with low installation costs as well. Ad revenue would exceed these costs. In the old days there was a substantial weight penalty with extremely heavy CRT screens or projectors and large equipment needed just for having movies on board the planes. 

I still remember the days of Pan Am and TWA flying 747 classics from NY to California. Now its all much smaller Boeing or Airbus jets with a lot newer and personalized IFE systems. Some carriers seem to be doing Wifi only like Spirit and American Airlines on some of their planes and routes but the reason is not due to weight penalties. It likely has to do with getting the jets into service more quickly and perhaps dissatisfaction by consumers with having the seatback IFE onboard.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 5, 2022)

BCL said:


> I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s (before high def) I heard some AV shop employee claiming that a fancy front projector with a line doubler was as close to movie theater quality as possible.


I believe this was correct back in the analog home movie era, but it required precisely calibrated hardware, a special projector and screen, a carefully mastered Laserdisc, and a very dark environment.



adamj023 said:


> Disagree on weight penalty. The technology industry has evolved to the point you can have a very low cost, lightweight and low electrical usage system for creating a scaled down IFE system with low installation costs as well. Ad revenue would exceed these costs. In the old days there was a substantial weight penalty with extremely heavy CRT screens or projectors and large equipment needed just for having movies on board the planes.


I agree that weight and volume penalties have substantially improved but fuel costs, passengers-per-area, and weight-per-passenger have also increased considerably, leaving a limited margin for IFE hardware. I'm not sure how much money can be made through advertising but industry articles make it sound like it barely covers the content.



adamj023 said:


> Some carriers seem to be doing Wifi only like Spirit and American Airlines on some of their planes and routes but the reason is not due to weight penalties. It likely has to do with getting the jets into service more quickly and perhaps dissatisfaction by consumers with having the seatback IFE onboard.


I cannot speak about Spirit/Allegiant/Frontier but American had at least two subfleets with fully functioning AVOD. If expediency was the goal they could turned them off and covered them up but they spent time and money to permanently remove them. When asked about this AA's President specifically mentioned weight and efficiency.


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## BCL (Feb 5, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I believe this was correct back in the analog home movie era, but it required precisely calibrated hardware, a special projector and screen, a carefully mastered Laserdisc, and a very dark environment.



I saw a setup under those conditions and it really wasn't that good. My two year old 55" 4K LCD is better in every way other than I can't project it larger. It also has way better off-axis performance than older flatscreens (plasma used to be preferred for that). And an iPad closer up is even better in terms of resolution and color rendition.

However, that was in the early 90s, and the technology has gotten so much better and so much cheaper. We still don't have those wall TVs in every home like in Back to the Future 2 (and where are those flying cars?) but video quality is just so much better now.


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## adamj023 (Feb 5, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I believe this was correct back in the analog home movie era, but it required precisely calibrated hardware, a special projector and screen, a carefully mastered Laserdisc, and a very dark environment.
> 
> 
> I agree that weight and volume penalties have substantially improved but fuel costs, passengers-per-area, and weight-per-passenger have also increased considerably, leaving a limited margin for IFE hardware. I'm not sure how much money can be made through advertising but industry articles make it sound like it barely covers the content.
> ...



American Airlines added a denser Oasis configuration with less seat room for economy which is why they didn’t cover them up. They wanted to profit more by getting more revenue on the plane, ie shrink seats for economy and get more profit on upper class revenue. And this revenue would have been substantial for them. So implement quickly and bypass Seatback IFE. To their credit though, more planes do have upgraded Wifi. The original Gogo wifi on mainline was poor from what I’ve heard and it since has moved over to faster satellite based systems. Gogo still is used on regional flights. 

From a consumer perspective, an AA flight without seatback IFE is fine on a shorter flight as you can just stream from tablet, laptop or phone and get live tv or other content. On longer flights like international or longer domestic I believe they have the seatback IFE. Jetblue started seatback IFE without having internet on board so no wifi back then But that has since been added. Wifi is a lot more flexible for content.


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## jis (Feb 5, 2022)

Apparently United passengers spoke loudly and wanted seat back screens, and United is obliging in a nig way...









United brings back embedded IFE under massive narrowbody overhaul - Runway Girl


Embedded screens are on their way back in along with a host of other passenger experience improvements with a program called United Next.




runwaygirlnetwork.com





Apparently this will be in addition to streaming services as they are over WiFi.


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## west point (Feb 5, 2022)

Inflight entertainment systems = a pain in the a**! Our L1011s had a multiplex system designed in the 1970s. Every seat, movies and entertainment channels, FA station, and others had an encoder with every reading light, air vent, movie control and other items had a receiver. You can just imagine the problems. Let it get out of sync ( easy if too many requests at same time ) and your button might change someone's vent channel somewhere across the aisle.

The movie projector was real 16mm film. Imagine the film on about a 30 inch cassette that was inserted into each of 3 projectors. The soundtrack was on the film as standard. The sound exciter light was always burning out so I quickly picked up spares to replace burn outs. As well if the sound became garbled our guys quickly found out that an artist' brush inserted in the sound lens would brush away the accumulated dust and tobacco smoke.

Resetting the system was easy but I always defined a trip without more than one trip to the cabin every 45 minutes as a good trip.


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## BCL (Feb 5, 2022)

west point said:


> The movie projector was real 16mm film. Imagine the film on about a 30 inch cassette that was inserted into each of 3 projectors. The soundtrack was on the film as standard. The sound exciter light was always burning out so I quickly picked up spares to replace burn outs. As well if the sound became garbled our guys quickly found out that an artist' brush inserted in the sound lens would brush away the accumulated dust and tobacco smoke.


Ah - 16mm. Good times.

I'm from an era where we still had 16mm film used in schools, and the standard projector was a portable Bell & Howell machine that folded into a box the size of briefcase. We had a library of films, although often they were 20-25 years old. My dad rented one a few times and showed some films on the wall at home. But a lot of old reels were scratched up and sometimes repaired with missing segments.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 5, 2022)

BCL said:


> Ah - 16mm. Good times.
> 
> I'm from an era where we still had 16mm film used in schools, and the standard projector was a portable Bell & Howell machine that folded into a box the size of briefcase.



For many years when I was teaching, I used a 16 mm Bell & Howell projector. Good times? Not always. When the film started to "chatter" as it went through the projector and I couldn't get it to stop. (Most of the times, I was successful, but there was a couple of inopportune times when I couldn't.) And, then, there was the time that for some reason as the film was going through the projector and something in the projector started to cause the film to split down the middle. That happened when I was a student teacher; my supervising teacher was rather unhappy with me that morning.


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## jis (Feb 5, 2022)

MODERATOR'S Note: Slight nudge back to inflight entertainment systems


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 5, 2022)

I often have difficulty in using In Flight Entertainment systems. I can get something started OK, but, then trying "to surf" the system to see what else I might want to watch: often, I am unsuccessful. During a Singapore Airlines flight, the system kept freezing. The Flight Attendant for my section tried each time to get it back up; twice, she was successful. The final time, it just wouldn't work. After we landed at Hong Kong and the flight resumed, it came back on. I set it to the program I wanted (the map showing the flight path/details) and left the darn thing alone.


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## BCL (Feb 5, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> For many years when I was teaching, I used a 16 mm Bell & Howell projector. Good times? Not always. When the film started to "chatter" as it went through the projector and I couldn't get it to stop. (Most of the times, I was successful, but there was a couple of inopportune times when I couldn't.) And, then, there was the time that for some reason as the film was going through the projector and something in the projector started to cause the film to split down the middle. That happened when I was a student teacher; my supervising teacher was rather unhappy with me that morning.



You didn't sense the dripping sarcasm?

And yeah I remember when the film broke and even was spliced on the spot just to get it to work. I think I might have seen it at least once where it got stuck and started melting the film when the heat of the projector bulb was too much when it wasn't moving. I could certainly feel the heat putting my hand near the projector. At least at school the projector cart usually carried a spare bulb because they burned out quite often.

Not sure what would be done today if someone wanted to make a new projector to view archived (or even new) film. Possibly use an LED source which would be a lot cooler and more reliable. Apparently there are some direct LED replacements for those old bulbs.

Not sure what they would do about all this inside a plane, especially if the projector is in some hidden location. It would be a huge pain to get into anything buried.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 6, 2022)

Thought it was funny that I saw this article not long after I posted Jamie’s anticipated flight pattern 









Why airline route maps look the way they do


Airline route planning is a lot more than just flying a plane from A to B. Weather, geopolitics, how much a country charges for aircraft to fly over its territory, and even runway length all dictate the way we travel through the sky




www.cnn.com


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## west point (Feb 6, 2022)

We had a few guys that carried film splicing kits. That was not me! Too fumble fingered.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 7, 2022)

I only use the airline IFE to view the map to see where we are, altitude, airspeed, etc. My "IFE" is usually a good book, such as one of the Patrick O'Brian Captain Aubrey novels.


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## jis (Feb 7, 2022)

In addition to the moving map display, there are some airlines who also present video channels from a front facing and sometimes additionally, downward facing cameras, among their offerings as part of their IFE. Typically they were/are to be found in A380s and B748s. I remember being mesmerized by those during daylight hours on my flights on Lufthansa A380s (FRA-DEL) and B748s (FRA-ORD), way more than the moving maps. I believe those channels are available in all classes. I was in Lufthansa Business Class, upper deck on the A380, and in the lower deck portion of BC on the 748.


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