# Will commuter rail regain popularity again?



## MIrailfan (Apr 9, 2021)

Post-Covid with all the work from home people.


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## railiner (Apr 9, 2021)

Only time will tell....


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## PaTrainFan (Apr 9, 2021)

It will take years to get back to pre-Covid. Even when the pandemic is declared "over" so many companies have learned that productivity did not suffer due to remote work and they save on square footage. I suspect many larger companies will go to some sort of hybrid, working from home some of the time and the rest in the office. Transit agencies have their work cut out for them to become creative to respond to this new way of working.


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## west point (Apr 9, 2021)

The elephant in the "office" is Covid-19 fatigue. Around here all everyone says they want to get back to work. With no public transit the roads here are as crowded as ever. How that will apply to public transit by end of summer in major transit locations === who knows ?i


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## SubwayNut (Apr 9, 2021)

The big thing commuter rail needs to due is adapt into Regional Rail, with more frequent all day service to serve everyone, such as essential workers who's commute patterns don't have the usual peak start and end times, and less focus only on service during peak hours. 

Boston just changed it's commuter rail schedules to do this.


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## Qapla (Apr 9, 2021)

I have a friend who lives in Brooklyn and works in Manhattan - he told me that the subways are back to being full (crowded) ... at least the ones that are running.


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## Eric S (Apr 9, 2021)

NY MTA stats show that subway ridership is still down about 2/3 (about 1/3 of normal). The two MTA commuter railroads are down about 3/4 (only 1/4 of normal). And MTA bus is a little under 1/2 of normal ridership.


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## Deni (Apr 10, 2021)

SubwayNut said:


> The big thing commuter rail needs to due is adapt into Regional Rail, with more frequent all day service to serve everyone, such as essential workers who's commute patterns don't have the usual peak start and end times, and less focus only on service during peak hours.
> 
> Boston just changed it's commuter rail schedules to do this.


^^^^^^This! ^^^^^^

They have been needing to do this for years but now more than ever. Commuter rail in this country needs to act more like S-Bahn trains in Europe and serve more than just suburban office workers and become actual regional rail systems.


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## Deni (Apr 10, 2021)

An article from 2019.









Commuter Rail’s Potential Is Untapped


Chicago, Boston, Washington D.C. and Philadelphia have suburban rail systems that serve only 2 to 6 percent of commuters — but better and more-frequent service could appeal to people who are curren…




usa.streetsblog.org


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## MARC Rider (Apr 10, 2021)

Another challenge is being able to provide suburb-to-suburb service. I was just out and about today. The traffic levels are close to being what they were pre-pandemic. People are certainly going out and doing stuff. However, most of the commuter rail services were designed mostly to move office workers to and from downtown, and secondarily, service workers from the inner city to (some) suburban locations. I'm not sure what it would take to build a metropolitan rail network that would be a practical alternative to driving, even for people who aren't commuting to a downtown job, but the first thing they could do is more frequent service outside of the rush hour.


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## Palmetto (Apr 11, 2021)

For suburb to suburb service, there are two cities that come to my mind: Boston and Chicago. There may be others, but they don't pop out at the moment. Both have right-of-ways and rails in place, and are used by freight railroads. Boston has a north and west quadrant possibility running from Haverhill to Lowell to Worcester, via Ayer. Chicago has the former EJ&E running from Waukegan south to Joliet and looping east to Gary, IN. I have no idea, though, how much used either of these services would be. I believe the Chicago route was considered several years ago, though.


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## Ziv (Apr 11, 2021)

Heck, not even the subways I am familiar with provide decent suburb to suburb service, MARC Rider. If "commuter rail" is light rail only and not subways about the only part of the local rail systems in the DC area that provided suburb to suburb rail service is the "not even here yet" Purple Line. I used to live in Arlington Virginia so we share (kind of) a common DMV mass transit system. Getting MARC Rail or Virginia Rail to do a decent job of sub to sub travel would be a difficult task. Are there even tracks in place that could be used? Or existing right of way sans track? And I imagine that the DC/Baltimore Metro conglomeration is probably better served than most other medium/large sized cities in the US or Canada. 


MARC Rider said:


> Another challenge is being able to provide suburb-to-suburb service. I was just out and about today. The traffic levels are close to being what they were pre-pandemic. People are certainly going out and doing stuff. However, most of the commuter rail services were designed mostly to move office workers to and from downtown, and secondarily, service workers from the inner city to (some) suburban locations. I'm not sure what it would take to build a metropolitan rail network that would be a practical alternative to driving, even for people who aren't commuting to a downtown job, but the first thing they could do is more frequent service outside of the rush hour.


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2021)

When I go back to the office, it's only going to be 2-3 days a week. One consideration on the train vs. drive is that it'll lose the inherent discount that comes with monthly/weekly ticket pricing.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 11, 2021)

Ryan said:


> When I go back to the office, it's only going to be 2-3 days a week. One consideration on the train vs. drive is that it'll lose the inherent discount that comes with monthly/weekly ticket pricing.


What about the transit subsidy? This was very common in DC and used as a way to meet transportation conformity/Clean Air Act compliance goals. I'm not sure that the Feds are going to eliminate the transit subsidy, and the local MPO will want to keep it, especially since they'll need to offset the increased driving suburb-to-suburb. Under the rules I had for my transit subsidy, they paid for whatever you rode, up to a $230/month maximum. I had a compressed workweek, and only worked 9 days every 2 weeks, but they paid for a monthly pass for me. I suspect if you only worked 3 days a week, they'll pay for 24 one-way tickets, plus bus or metro fare used. If a pass is cheaper than 24 one-way tickets, they'll pay for the pass. Perhaps it's time for MARC to bring back the 10-trip discount ticket.


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2021)

I haven't yet heard how that's going to interface with part time telework. You're correct that it'll be awesome if they'll continue to cover the full fare. I went back to driving because the enforcement of core working hours (now gone) made for a super long day 5x a week, but with improved schedule flexibility and getting to stay home a few days a week, I'd love to get back into the train.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 11, 2021)

Ryan said:


> I haven't yet heard how that's going to interface with part time telework. You're correct that it'll be awesome if they'll continue to cover the full fare. I went back to driving because the enforcement of core working hours (now gone) made for a super long day 5x a week, but with improved schedule flexibility and getting to stay home a few days a week, I'd love to get back into the train.


I know you dont miss being in the Areas "Wonderful " Traffic every day!


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## MisterUptempo (Apr 12, 2021)

Palmetto said:


> For suburb to suburb service, there are two cities that come to my mind: Boston and Chicago. There may be others, but they don't pop out at the moment. Both have right-of-ways and rails in place, and are used by freight railroads. Boston has a north and west quadrant possibility running from Haverhill to Lowell to Worcester, via Ayer. Chicago has the former EJ&E running from Waukegan south to Joliet and looping east to Gary, IN. I have no idea, though, how much used either of these services would be. I believe the Chicago route was considered several years ago, though.


The proposal in Chicago you are referring to was known as the STAR Line. The initial segment would have utilized the EJ&E from Joliet (at Renwick Road) to the Jane Addams Tollway, continuing down the median of the tollway to the Metra-North Central at O'Hare, terminating at Rosemont, allowing passengers to board the North Central or the CTA Blue Line to Chicago, if desired. A later segment promised a connection to Metra-Rock Island and Metra-Electric District lines.


As is often the case, the problem was money, or the lack of it, rather. CN had the money to buy the EJ&E when it became available. Metra did not. Since purchasing the "J", CN has moved a lot of their freights moving through Chicago onto the line. 

In addition to killing off the STAR Line, CN's acquisition of the "J" moved the railroad from actively supporting the CREATE Project and pledging financial support to becoming a "supporter", which is the rail equivalent of "thoughts and prayers". They're happy sitting on the sidelines while others scratch for funding.


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## Exvalley (Apr 12, 2021)

One problem with suburb to suburb service is that the suburbs are designed for automobiles and bus service can be spotty or infrequent. It's one thing to get to the suburb, it's another thing to be able to get to where you want to go within the suburb.


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## Eric S (Apr 12, 2021)

Yeah, most suburb to suburb trips are difficult to serve. It would often require at least a three leg (two transfer) trip.


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## Deni (Apr 12, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> One problem with suburb to suburb service is that the suburbs are designed for automobiles and bus service can be spotty or infrequent. It's one thing to get to the suburb, it's another thing to be able to get to where you want to go within the suburb.


There is definitely an argument to be made (which I've seen in an op-ed recently that I can't find to link to) for a massive investment in bus transit that would allow for frequent and convenient service in the suburbs.


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## bms (Apr 12, 2021)

Chicago and Boston both have suburbs that are built at the same density as the city. I think they'd be great candidates for suburb-to-suburb service.


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## Ryan (Apr 13, 2021)

I'd add DC to this list as well. Run through MARC service would open up a ton of Crystal City/Pentagon jobs to commuting from Maryland easier. Today to get there from here is MARC to WAS, transfer to Metro, go two stops on the red line, change trains to the yellow line, then cross the river. Staying on the train and crossing into VA to get off directly at Crystal City would be a massive improvement.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 13, 2021)

Ryan said:


> I'd add DC to this list as well. Run through MARC service would open up a ton of Crystal City/Pentagon jobs to commuting from Maryland easier. Today to get there from here is MARC to WAS, transfer to Metro, go two stops on the red line, change trains to the yellow line, then cross the river. Staying on the train and crossing into VA to get off directly at Crystal City would be a massive improvement.


Once the Metro got going, I never liked having to change Metro Trains @ Metro Center to get most places in DC back when I used them regularly in my Civil Service Days.


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## Ryan (Apr 14, 2021)

You must have lived a charmed life, most of my trips involve transfers.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 14, 2021)

Ryan said:


> You must have lived a charmed life, most of my trips involve transfers.


The system is much bigger now as you know, and MARC and VRE, which were not useful for me due to where I lived, are viable Commuter systems as you also know.

Your proposal makes a lot of sense, which, since its DC, doesnt stand a chance as you also know! Sigh


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## Tlcooper93 (Apr 24, 2021)

bms said:


> Chicago and Boston both have suburbs that are built at the same density as the city. I think they'd be great candidates for suburb-to-suburb service.



While this is semi-true in Boston, I can tell you that the majority of stops outside the city are not like this. Once you are out the station, you really need a car (with the exception of Concord, Framingham, Providence, and Worcester). 

In terms of ridership, MBTA is definitely showing upward trents, suggesting a return to pre-covid numbers could be in the future.


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## neroden (Apr 28, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> While this is semi-true in Boston, I can tell you that the majority of stops outside the city are not like this. Once you are out the station, you really need a car (with the exception of Concord, Framingham, Providence, and Worcester).
> 
> In terms of ridership, MBTA is definitely showing upward trents, suggesting a return to pre-covid numbers could be in the future.



Well, there are a bunch of close-in places in Boston which most people wouldn't think of as "suburbs", but which are technically suburbs, "inside I-95", where you don't need a car. I mean, IIRC Cambridge and Somerville are denser than Boston. They lack circle routes which bypass downtown; the #1 bus is constantly delayed. They should have such routes.

Once you get outside the 95 beltway the dense urbanity ends in most directions (there's some more to the southeast in the Quincy area), but there's a lot inside that radius. 

Something similar is going on in DC, where everything inside the Purple Line route is pretty dense. In Chicago, there's a similar pattern, though I couldn't pinpoint the boundary line. 

There's such a boundary in Philadelphia too. 

New York City is weirder, because as you head into New Jersey, Connecticut, and Long Island, there are areas which are just as dense as Queens but which have been so car-oriented that you can't walk from one place to the next; some urban fabric repair would make them more manageable.


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## Tlcooper93 (Apr 28, 2021)

neroden said:


> Well, there are a bunch of close-in places in Boston which most people wouldn't think of as "suburbs", but which are technically suburbs, "inside I-95", where you don't need a car. I mean, IIRC Cambridge and Somerville are denser than Boston. They lack circle routes which bypass downtown; the #1 bus is constantly delayed. They should have such routes.
> 
> Once you get outside the 95 beltway the dense urbanity ends in most directions (there's some more to the southeast in the Quincy area), but there's a lot inside that radius.
> 
> ...



I live in Cambridge (ride the 1 bus every day), and grew up in Lincoln (just outside the 128 loop), and while any town that is connected to the MBTA trains has an easy commute (relatively speaking), much of the inner loop metro area is really not livable without a car. Towns like Belmont, Waltham and Lexington have MBTA service in their center, but there are too many streets and parts that don't have easy connectivity to either a railway station or a subway line.

Most of the commuter rail lines have only a few stops inside the 128 loop (with the exception of the Worcester Line). There has been a proposed outer loop rail line, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Essentially, I'm not sure suburb to suburb service would make sense with the MBTA without major restructuring.


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## neroden (May 1, 2021)

Major restructuring is what's planned, though. TransitMatters has actually convinced the MBTA to go to all-day every-day service and prioritize the inside-the-loop stations (first Fairmount, then Salem, Newtonville/Wellesley, others to follow). With the restructuring of MBTA commuter rail as urban rail within the 128 loop, suburb to suburb service starts to seem plausible.


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## Tlcooper93 (May 1, 2021)

neroden said:


> Major restructuring is what's planned, though. TransitMatters has actually convinced the MBTA to go to all-day every-day service and prioritize the inside-the-loop stations (first Fairmount, then Salem, Newtonville/Wellesley, others to follow). With the restructuring of MBTA commuter rail as urban rail within the 128 loop, suburb to suburb service starts to seem plausible.



Yeah, I remember them discussing this on one of their open zoom conferences. 
I'm not sure as to what you mean by the MBTA being convinced by this plan. You mind showing where the MBTA has included this in their plans?

TransitMatters has great stuff and ideas. If the MBTA can electrify the network (they are in talks with Alstom about purchasing some EMU's and have even visited the plant out west to get a test train for the Providence Line) then I think this is possible. I don't see it happening for at least 20 years however.


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## MIrailfan (May 7, 2021)

I think the gasoline price rise will bring back commuter service.


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## neroden (May 7, 2021)

MBTA Fiscal Control Board actually voted to implement the "regional rail" plan. You can find the articles if you look. Huge win. Still going to take time, obviously.

They're already redoing the schedules on the Fitchburg line for almost-clockface service. You can find those articles from very recently. They're actually committed.


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## Tlcooper93 (May 7, 2021)

neroden said:


> They're already redoing the schedules on the Fitchburg line for almost-clockface service. You can find those articles from very recently. They're actually committed.



Just checked out the new May 3 schedule this morning. I was under the impression that the Fitchburg Line was down for the installation of PTC. Perhaps now that it is installed, more trains can run to fulfill this new schedule?


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## AFS1970 (May 7, 2021)

The biggest problem with suburb to suburb service is the reliance on hub and spoke plans for many transit systems. The second factor is infrastructure related.

In my area of Connecticut we have MNRR commuter rail out of NYC, which is very much hub and spoke. I live on the New Haven Line, which has three spur lines. New Canaan which is a dead end. Danbury which is not a dead end but plans to run service to parts of NY sate have never been realized. Waterbury which is also not a dead end. However just because the tracks go somewhere after the last station, does not mean they offer an easy route to another spoke. Once in New Haven you can transfer to Shore Line East for a few more stops or to the relatively new CT Rail Hartford line. But again if you wanted to go from Hartford to Waterbury, it would be faster and probably cheaper to drive. 

Some places have sort of solved this with bus routes. In Stamford we have CT Transit, which is again hub and spoke from the train station. So getting from spoke to spoke requires a trip downtown to transfer. In some cases it would be faster to walk, but of course not all streets have sidewalks. The next closest but service is Norwalk which has WHEELS, they operate on a hub and loop system, all busses come from the central hub but all routes are loops. For those unfamiliar with the system, this means if a street has service in both directions they will be on different routes. 

Like the lack of tracks between many spokes, in the suburban part of my city many of the roads would not be the best for busses to try and make the crossing. So even if they wanted to do loops or even a cross spoke connector, this may not be feasible. We do have tow loops that late at night and on weekends convert into a single loop but that is due to low ridership.


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## Willbridge (May 11, 2021)

We'll get some answers on this question later this week when the petroleum delivery gap gets to the NEC cities. The north end of the corridor isn't on the missing pipeline link but it'll be squeezed to shift some supplies southward.

In regard to the S-bahn concept, that's basically what Denver commuter rail is. It's hard to know how it's working out as openings were delayed and delayed by being the first PTC-from-opening-day system. The most recent line opened with all the VIP's wearing face masks. I rode the N-Line last Monday after lunch and most riders were suburb to suburb. Trains and the feeder buses are run on weekend schedules for the pandemic.


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## 20th Century Rider (Feb 24, 2022)

Seattle's Sounder Service makes the case for the future of urban rail transit... I've taken it many times... it connects literally everything important in the Seattle metro area. 

It connects major colleges and universities with everywhere one needs to go... shopping areas, airports, Amtrak and etc etc
It connects Amtrak with the airport
It connects the central business district with neighboring areas
It connects ethnic areas with their attractive restaurants and business - with each other
Transit stops have spurned hotels / apartments / housing / shopping in the immediate vicinity

The same can be said about Portland's MAX. 

By connecting all the great amenities of a large urban area... including shopping, transportation, recreational facilities, parks, zoos, museums, hospitals, educational institutions, ethnic districts, sports venues, etc. urban rail is certainly here to stay and I don't think work commuting patterns will change all the good that comes from urban rail systems. 

Do check out the urbanrail.net > metro - subway - light rail website for all the marvels of urban rail systems in cities worldwide. It provides endless success stories brought by urban rail systems.





__





urbanrail.net > metro - subway - light rail







www.urbanrail.net


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## Ziv (Feb 24, 2022)

Wow. Anecdotal evidence is always questionable but when I was in New York last month the 1, 3, A and M lines were close to full every time I rode them during the day. But I didn't ride after 7 pm or so. Maybe Manhattan is the busier, faster recovering section of the MTA?


Eric S said:


> NY MTA stats show that subway ridership is still down about 2/3 (about 1/3 of normal). The two MTA commuter railroads are down about 3/4 (only 1/4 of normal). And MTA bus is a little under 1/2 of normal ridership.


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## Eric S (Feb 24, 2022)

Ziv said:


> Wow. Anecdotal evidence is always questionable but when I was in New York last month the 1, 3, A and M lines were close to full every time I rode them during the day. But I didn't ride after 7 pm or so. Maybe Manhattan is the busier, faster recovering section of the MTA?


My comment was from 10 months ago. Not sure how numbers look now.

EDIT: I'd also add that it's also possible that less service (fewer buses, fewer and/or shorter trains) is being operated than 2+ years ago so it could still look quite full but have fewer riders. Not unlike our favorite US national intercity passenger rail operator.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 24, 2022)

Tlcooper93 said:


> While this is semi-true in Boston, I can tell you that the majority of stops outside the city are not like this. Once you are out the station, you really need a car (with the exception of Concord, Framingham, Providence, and Worcester).
> 
> In terms of ridership, MBTA is definitely showing upward trents, suggesting a return to pre-covid numbers could be in the future.


Also true of Chicago, lots of inner ring and and suburbs along train lines are dense, and some lines end in dense outer cities (Elgin, Aurora, etc), however, the rail may not be near job centers - or enough of them. 



Tlcooper93 said:


> personally, I agree and think the problem goes far deeper than this. Boston is such a great city in part because of its success stopping further car infrastructure, and removing it (the big dig).



Interestingly, also true to a certain degree of Chicago - the metro area has fewer expressways than a lot of other metro areas do. 

For the moment, Metra is holding on, however, a lot of people are unwilling to commute via the L - it's perceived as being very unsafe right now across the city - I have friends who are planning on leaving if the crime can't be brought under control or won't take the train after being attacked or in situations where they would have had no escape had something happened - and several of these are people of color. Over the past few years, beginning pre-covid, I've been seeing more black families in the outer western and northwestern suburbs which wouldn't have been seen ten years ago. Before then black middle-income families would have moved to a few inner western suburbs or the south suburbs almost exclusively, but as they suburbs have diversified, they are moving further afield.


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## west point (Feb 24, 2022)

Good points. So I can fly into PDX airport. Take MX down to Portland Union Station. Take a train to Klamath Falls or Salem. That is what can work.


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## MARC Rider (Feb 24, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> however, the rail may not be near job centers - or enough of them.



Which means more job centers need to be built near rail stations.


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## John from RI (Feb 24, 2022)

Many years ago, I made a personal decision about my life that I did not want the stress of driving back and forth to work each day. For most of the time I commuted by train. In the morning I would have breakfast and read my newspaper. In the evening I would read a book or take a nap. On the whole commuting by train was not faster than driving and often driving would have saved me some time. But commuting by train was much less stressful and also less expensive. For mean it meant my wife and I shared one car instead of having 2 cars. Never ever have I regretted my decision to commute by train. 
But I am unusual. Most Americans drive to work and don't want to change.


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## Tlcooper93 (Feb 24, 2022)

John from RI said:


> Many years ago, I made a personal decision about my life that I did not want the stress of driving back and forth to work each day. For most of the time I commuted by train. In the morning I would have breakfast and read my newspaper. In the evening I would read a book or take a nap. On the whole commuting by train was not faster than driving and often driving would have saved me some time. But commuting by train was much less stressful and also less expensive. For mean it meant my wife and I shared one car instead of having 2 cars. Never ever have I regretted my decision to commute by train.
> But I am unusual. Most Americans drive to work and don't want to change.


To be fair, many Americans don't have access to good commuter rail systems. 
I'm guessing you used either Metro North or MBTA seeing as you're from RI? Shot in the dark.


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## cirdan (Mar 3, 2022)

Tlcooper93 said:


> Essentially, I'm not sure suburb to suburb service would make sense with the MBTA without major restructuring.



In my opinion, the way many cities are structured, suburb to suburb services would be best served by buses, or at best light rail or streetcars. In other than maybe a few special cases I don't see the costs of heavy rail commuter trains being justifed.


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## pennyk (Mar 3, 2022)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please keep the posts in this thread on the topic of whether commuter rail will regain popularity. Off topic and responses to off topic posts have been removed.

Thank you for your cooperation.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Mar 4, 2022)

John from RI said:


> Many years ago, I made a personal decision about my life that I did not want the stress of driving back and forth to work each day. For most of the time I commuted by train. In the morning I would have breakfast and read my newspaper. In the evening I would read a book or take a nap. On the whole commuting by train was not faster than driving and often driving would have saved me some time. But commuting by train was much less stressful and also less expensive. For mean it meant my wife and I shared one car instead of having 2 cars. Never ever have I regretted my decision to commute by train.
> But I am unusual. Most Americans drive to work and don't want to change.


When I lived in the Philadelphia suburbs I tried commuting from my home in Swarthmore Delaware County to my job in North Wales both located on Regional Rail fairly convenient to stations. Unfortunately it just took too much time over 2 1/2 hours vs. 1 hour typically for driving, since it involved going into center city and changing trains then the long trip back out. Once the Blue Route (I-476) was completed the car commute got even shorter. For a while I even tried driving to Radnor and taking the High Speed line to Norristown then a bus from there to North Wales. But since I still had to drive part of the way it didn't seem worth it. I think I did it more as an excuse to ride the "bullet" cars on the NHSL.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 9, 2022)

I don't know what's happening with commuter rail, but I had the opportunity to ride the T in Boston (Red Line and Green Line) at abut 4 PM the other day, and I would say that the rush hour ridership seems to be recovering. The new Red Line cars are nice, by the way.


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## west point (Mar 9, 2022)

New York Post article saying ridership starting Monday very high increase in ridership.

'Booming' LIRR and Metro-North commuters return to Manhattan (nypost.com)

If this holds up then at least for NYC ridership will meet pre C-19 numbers ?


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## Tlcooper93 (Mar 9, 2022)

west point said:


> New York Post article saying ridership starting Monday very high increase in ridership.
> 
> 'Booming' LIRR and Metro-North commuters return to Manhattan (nypost.com)
> 
> If this holds up then at least for NYC ridership will meet pre C-19 numbers ?





MARC Rider said:


> I don't know what's happening with commuter rail, but I had the opportunity to ride the T in Boston (Red Line and Green Line) at abut 4 PM the other day, and I would say that the rush hour ridership seems to be recovering. The new Red Line cars are nice, by the way.


Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the MBTA Commuter rail.
While ridership is more than double what is was last year, it is truly struggling to come back.

Red Line ridership is nearly half of what it used to be. 
When I rode pre pandemic, it was almost impossible to get a seat any time of day; standing room only.
Now, that's a rare occurrence. Thankfully, they are back to running 4 minute frequencies though.


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## Cal (Mar 10, 2022)

Tlcooper93 said:


> Thankfully, they are back to running 4 minute frequencies though.


Meanwhile here in LA we're still going with 15 minute frequencies at 5:30PM on the the Red and Purple lines which are some of the most used subway lines in the nation.


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## daybeers (Mar 10, 2022)

Cal said:


> Meanwhile here in LA we're still going with 15 minute frequencies at 5:30PM on the the Red and Purple lines which are some of the most used subway lines in the nation.


Not as bad as 10 minutes on Red, 20 minutes at all times on other lines in DC because of the 7k series calamity


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## west point (Mar 10, 2022)

If I was running a business, I would be hesitant to call back employees to our offices. If I ran a cafe, bookstore, curio store or like business I would also be hesitant to call back employees. If I go a week or more then I would call back more each week. Unfortunately, many business owners will look at the deaths as an indicator. We know deaths are a lagging indicator so it will take 2 - 4 weeks for deaths are still showing up following new cases. 

Then there are those that will worry about another variant that blows thru all citizens. All in all I expect that ridership will increase every week!


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## MIrailfan (Mar 31, 2022)

gAS price rise has increased ridership.


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## west point (Apr 1, 2022)

IMO each system will have many factors to determine rate of return or even if ever getting back to full 2019 ridership.


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## Fenway (Apr 6, 2022)

The new NYC subway boss who formerly ran Boston senses rush hour is a thing of the past. 









Incoming NYC Transit chief mulling trims to rush hour subway service, running more trains on nights, weekends


Weekday subway ridership is roughly 50% and 60% of pre-pandemic levels, while Saturday and Sunday ridership is roughly 60% to 70% of pre-pandemic levels, MTA data shows. Davey said Tuesday that NYC Transit should adjust to evolving ridership patterns.




www.nydailynews.com





Car traffic in the Boston area is almost back to normal but subway and commuter rail is still lagging. 

100+ years ago there was another pandemic but downtowns rebounded quickly as there was no feasible way for workers to work remotely and people needed to shop.

A conductor friend told me the only time North Station trains are close to full is for sporting events at TD Garden which sits above North Station.

Richard Davey to me is a shocking hire to run NYC Transit. He brokered the deal with China's CRRC for replacement cars for the Boston subway which is painfully behind schedule as have Rotem cars for the commuter rail. 

The MBTA Commuter Rail is not a pleasant experience. Granted the MBTA was dealing with absorbing the old New Haven, New York Central (Boston and Albany), and Boston & Maine cultures and returning to locomotive push/pull to replace the aging Budd RDC-DMU fleets that the previous carriers used. *From 1987 to 2003 it actually wasn't terrible because AMTRAK ran it (ponder that)* but they walked away and since then MBCR and later Keolis has managed it for the MBTA which never wanted to take operation inhouse as SEPTA did. 

It's going to be a hard sell to convince riders to come back to Boston. South Station is an embarrassment, Back Bay is a dungeon and North Station today may well be the best of the three because it is managed by TD Garden.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Apr 6, 2022)

Fenway said:


> South Station is an embarrassment, Back Bay is a dungeon and North Station today may well be the best of the three because it is managed by TD Garden.


South Station would be a great station if it weren't perpetually under construction.
I agree about Back Bay I only use it if I have to. I still remember the beautiful station the New haven had which they tore down.
North Station would be great if they could get rid of the pigeons. There seems to be more of them than people sometimes.


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## daybeers (Apr 6, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> South Station would be a great station if it weren't perpetually under construction


And if the ads were less obnoxious, more seating was available, more status boards were placed around the station, and if it wasn't so cold and drafty all the time.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 6, 2022)

daybeers said:


> And if the ads were less obnoxious, more seating was available, more status boards were placed around the station, and if it wasn't so cold and drafty all the time.


I kind of like the humongous big departure board.



On the other hand, I can see the benefit of having a few more monitors placed around the station. 

South Station is actually not that bad, except there's not enough seats in the waiting area, and the ones they have are rather uncomfortable as I found out some years ago when 67 conked out, and they returned us there to sit in the middle of the night waiting for the train to be retrieved and a new locomotive attached.

Now it's hard to really judge it because of the construction, but I hope eventually they'll do something about the waiting area. Fortunately, I have lounge access, and the Metropolitan Lounge there is one of the nicer ones.


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## NorthShore (Apr 7, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Which means more job centers need to be built near rail stations.



But, that's not as easy as it seems in an area like Chicago, where everything around suburban stations is, often, long established housing and suburban "downtown" retail. The "solution" to this on certain commuter lines has been for companies to provide shuttle bus services (sometimes contracting with Pace) for "last mile" services to the company centers. Or, conversely, to move back into city center offices in order to attract talent which might otherwise take jobs in other cities.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 7, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> But, that's not as easy as it seems in an area like Chicago, where everything around suburban stations is, often, long established housing and suburban "downtown" retail. The "solution" to this on certain commuter lines has been for companies to provide shuttle bus services (sometimes contracting with Pace) for "last mile" services to the company centers. Or, conversely, to move back into city center offices in order to attract talent which might otherwise take jobs in other cities.


Until covid that's what was happening (move back to downtown) - my company moved our office from the far NW burbs to downtown because of labor issues (i.e. younger or more talented people not wanting to reverse commute or even considering the burbs) - especially in creative professions.


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