# Is this too expensive?



## birdy (Mar 27, 2009)

Phoenix is planning on extending the highly successful light rail system to its downtown airport--at a cost of 1.1 Billion $. Its just a few miles, too. As I mentioned, its a downtown airport. $1.1 bil would probably pay for one of those semi-fast 110 mph diesel electric lines to Tucson 100 miles away. I'd rather have the train to the Old Pueblo, myself. For a few million bucks, they could have a nice station along their new light rail line with robust shuttle service to the airport. That works very well if people trust the service. Just my 2cents worth.


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## AlanB (Mar 27, 2009)

Last I heard Phoenix was not extending the Light Rail to the airport, something that many people were upset about. Right now it's just a bus connection, but there are plans to build some sort of people mover last I knew. Phoenix was talking about other extensions to the light rail, but again none to the airport that I'm aware of.

Do you have some new (within the last 2 months) info?


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## birdy (Mar 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Last I heard Phoenix was not extending the Light Rail to the airport, something that many people were upset about. Right now it's just a bus connection, but there are plans to build some sort of people mover last I knew. Phoenix was talking about other extensions to the light rail, but again none to the airport that I'm aware of.
> Do you have some new (within the last 2 months) info?


An article a day or two ago in the Arizona Repulsive that they were making a pitch to Secretary LaHood about the idea as part of stimulus. The impression I got was that it was kind of spur of the moment to correct the flub of not having the light rail go to Sky Harbor in the first place. The light rail has been sucessful pulling about 5,000 people per week day and its being informally used to get to the airport via the closest stop. A downtown airport with good transit connections is a terrifically convenient thing.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Mar 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Last I heard Phoenix was not extending the Light Rail to the airport, something that many people were upset about. Right now it's just a bus connection,


It's not like that makes it any worse than Boston Logan.


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## AlanB (Mar 28, 2009)

birdy said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Last I heard Phoenix was not extending the Light Rail to the airport, something that many people were upset about. Right now it's just a bus connection, but there are plans to build some sort of people mover last I knew. Phoenix was talking about other extensions to the light rail, but again none to the airport that I'm aware of.
> ...


Are you saying 5,000 a day for the airport? :unsure:

Because the last reports that I saw stated average weekday ridership of 30,000 per day, well over the original estimates for this early on.


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## AlanB (Mar 30, 2009)

I stumbled across this timely piece today:



> U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood joined Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon and Phoenix City Council members to break ground on Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport's automated train — the PHX Sky Train.
> Stage one of the PHX Sky Train will connect with METRO light rail and transport passengers and employees between 44th Street and Washington, East Economy Parking and Terminal 4. Stage one, which will be completed in 2013, is creating 5,900 jobs.


So no light rail for the airport. This will require that passengers transfer from the Sky Train to the light rail and vice versa.

The full story can be found here.


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## p&sr (Mar 31, 2009)

AlanB said:


> So no light rail for the airport. This will require that passengers transfer from the Sky Train to the light rail and vice versa.


At least they connect! Whether the SkyTrain is rail or a people-mover system, either way it beats a bus, a taxi, or a long walk with luggage. Wouldn't it be great if LAX could get one of those to link the Terminals to the Green Line?


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## AlanB (Mar 31, 2009)

p&sr said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > So no light rail for the airport. This will require that passengers transfer from the Sky Train to the light rail and vice versa.
> ...


Agreed, a connection is better than nothing. Better still would be light rail direct to the airport, but failing that the Sky Train is a good solution.

As for LA's Green line, there actually is a provision to allow the trains to run over to the airport in the existing trackways. All that's needed is some money, political will, and permission from the airport.


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## George Harris (Mar 31, 2009)

AlanB said:


> As for LA's Green line, there actually is a provision to allow the trains to run over to the airport in the existing trackways. All that's needed is some money, political will, and permission from the airport.


That last, "permission from the airport" may be the most difficult part. From what I have heard, BART into SFO airport was delayed considerably by the Airport, itself. One of their main sources of SFO's revenue is parking fees, and it was thought that being able to BART right into the airport would cut into that. There is and has been for a long time regular bus service into the airport by Samtrans that will get you there from San Francisco, Palo Alto, and several points in between, but luggage is not allowed on the bus.


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## birdy (Mar 31, 2009)

I expect George's figure is right about passenger loadings. Much consternation among the Arizona libertarians about the success.

A one seat ride to the airport is good, but in New Mexico, a well-planned robust nearby connection works reasonably well, better than planners expected. One thing is for sure, the airport is one place where people want public transit.

Still, 1.1 billion, Geez Louise....if they didn't want to build a semi-high speed train to Tucson, they could sub-way the light rail under Squaw Peak park and really open up the Northeast valley, for that kind of money.


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