# Coach passengers in sleeping car rooms?



## Kurt

Hi, 

Tomorrow I will be taking the auto train from Lorton to Sanford. It is going to be my 5th time on the train - I am a junior at UMiami who lives in the northeast. Normally I'd be in a roomette but because of the pandemic and the lower prices that come with it I decided to stay in a bedroom. For the first time I have 3 friends coincidentally also on the train, they will all be in coach however. I told them they are more than welcome to come hang out in my bedroom during the afternoon part of the journey. They won't be sleeping there but I don't know if this would be disallowed or anger the sleeping porter, especially because of the pandemic.


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## pennyk

Generally, coach passengers are prohibited from sitting/sleeping/visiting sleeper cars. Although I have not traveled during the pandemic, I am assuming that rule will be more strictly enforced now.

BTW - Good luck in college. I grew up in Miami (Kendall/Pinecrest area), but left in 1970 to go to college at UF.


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## Siegmund

Can't speak to how the pandemic may have changed things --- in the past, I've been able to escort a visitor into the sleeper, but if they had tried to come through on their own, they would have been turned around when they came into the diner from the "wrong" direction.


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## Acela150

pennyk said:


> Generally, coach passengers are prohibited from sitting/sleeping/visiting sleeper cars. Although I have not traveled during the pandemic, I am assuming that rule will be more strictly enforced now.



This is pretty much the answer. I would ask your Sleeper Attendant if its ok before doing anything.


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## Dakota 400

Kurt said:


> Hi,
> 
> Tomorrow I will be taking the auto train from Lorton to Sanford. It is going to be my 5th time on the train - I am a junior at UMiami who lives in the northeast. Normally I'd be in a roomette but because of the pandemic and the lower prices that come with it I decided to stay in a bedroom. For the first time I have 3 friends coincidentally also on the train, they will all be in coach however. I told them they are more than welcome to come hang out in my bedroom during the afternoon part of the journey. They won't be sleeping there but I don't know if this would be disallowed or anger the sleeping porter, especially because of the pandemic.



Please return to this Forum and thread and let us know what happens.


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## Kurt

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your responses!

It seems like your answers were accurate and I unfortunately was not allowed to bring my friends into my sleeper car. From what I could tell from my attendant this was unrelated to the coronavirus. I don’t really understand the need for this rule especially since I could visit them in coach - maybe Amtrak doesn’t want people sleeping over?

Also, the “cross country cafe” was closed to sit-in, but the sleeper lounge strangely wasn’t, so we spent a lot of the evening there. I think Amtrak like everyone is still working out how to respond to this virus so I understand that confusion. Regardless in the future I think we will all travel in the sleeper.


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## Michigan Mom

From Amtrak's perspective, the rule makes sense. Without such a rule there would be incentive for customers to avoid paying for accommodations used. People can be very creative.


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## Acela150

Michigan Mom said:


> From Amtrak's perspective, the rule makes sense. Without such a rule there would be incentive for customers to avoid paying for accommodations used. People can be very creative.



Exactly, if they're not paying for the use of a Roomette or Bedroom, why should they be allowed to use something that they aren't paying for?


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## PVD

They have reasonable policies regarding "open sleeper" tickets, or in higher passenger counts for "day mode only" travel...


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## caravanman

Thanks for coming back and letting us know how things worked out.
My own perspective is rather different to the majority on the forum, I believe.
Overcrowding* is not going to be acceptable, nor is rowdy behaviour in sleepers, but if two people had booked a bedroom, fine, then what difference would it make if one person had booked, and one had paid their coach fares and just came to the bedroom for a chat?
No revenue is lost, it seems as though having an "us and them" barrier is what is most important to members?
* What is the maximum number of adults that can book in one sleeper room? Maybe family room?


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## jiml

caravanman said:


> * What is the maximum number of adults that can book in one sleeper room? Maybe family room?


I've seen 6 in both an Amtrak 10-6 bedroom and Superliner Family Bedroom. Don't know how many were actually booked in either. Personally we've done 4 people in both of those - 2 of which were children, and all booked officially.


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## railiner

I have two thoughts on this....
First, as long as everyone pays their rail fare, what difference does it make how many crowd into a sleeper room? As a matter of fact, Amtrak makes out better, in those cases where someone joins a sleeper with an 'open ticket', it releases another coach space for Amtrak to sell. Amtrak does not charge any extra on the accommodation regardless of how many are booked in it. Perhaps they should, where meals are included for everyone in the sleeper. That brings another question...if the accommodation charge is the same for one or two occupants, then if someone is traveling solo, shouldn't they be entitled to two meals?

My second thought is that having more than the designed number in a room, could constitute a safety hazard (as in evacuation), not to mention perhaps being disruptive to the rest of the sleeper occupant's....


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## pennyk

railiner said:


> My second thought is that having more than the designed number in a room, could constitute a safety hazard (as in evacuation), not to mention perhaps being disruptive to the rest of the sleeper occupant's....



The safety issue is important since Amtrak wants to know which passengers are in the sleeper cars and which are in coach. This is crucial if there is some sort of an accident.


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## hlcteacher

i understand, but i did not care for the sleeper car and find my money better spent by traveling in coach which i will continue to do


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## me_little_me

And when the food is now brought to the room, they can share the slop!



> Please, Sir, can I have some more?


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## Barb Stout

railiner said:


> I have two thoughts on this....
> First, as long as everyone pays their rail fare, what difference does it make how many crowd into a sleeper room? As a matter of fact, Amtrak makes out better, in those cases where someone joins a sleeper with an 'open ticket', it releases another coach space for Amtrak to sell. Amtrak does not charge any extra on the accommodation regardless of how many are booked in it. Perhaps they should, where meals are included for everyone in the sleeper. That brings another question...if the accommodation charge is the same for one or two occupants, then if someone is traveling solo, shouldn't they be entitled to two meals?


How does the "open ticket" thing work? Also, I thought the accommodation charge was per person rather than per room. I'm mixed up?


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## Exvalley

pennyk said:


> The safety issue is important since Amtrak wants to know which passengers are in the sleeper cars and which are in coach. This is crucial if there is some sort of an accident.


There is also a security issue. If something goes missing from one of the rooms, Amtrak needs an accurate list of who was staying in the sleeping section. I know that this is practically unheard of, but if I was in Amtrak management, I would want to know who was in the sleeper section so I could look for patterns and have accurate information to give to law enforcement.


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## PVD

The accommodation charge is one charge for the room. Rail fare is per person. A person traveling in a room is not entitled to a coach seat, they are attached to the room. If a passenger is boarding or detraining at a different station, or not continuing on or connecting from the same train as the person making the accommodation can be "attached" to the room which entitles them to use the room , the "sleeper lounge" station lounge if applicable, and meals.


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## 20th Century Rider

Remembering a journey on the EB where there were a bunch of kids leaving SEA to Whitefish to ski... must have been eight who had gathered in the room behind me and what a loud bunch of party people they were. Many complained to the attendant who said it was ok since they were all sleeper passengers. I complained a second time... when getting louder when the booz they were consuming took effect. 

Needless to say it was a sleepless night... others complained as well. The attendant left the car early in the evening to eat and have sleep time in the dorm car. Finally I went to the diner and had a chat with the conductor who finally disbanded the group.

A good attendant would have stood up for others being upset with the commotion and would have also realized the safety danger. But it was not a good attendant. Perhaps I should have gone above the attendant and went to the conductor early on.

After many years riding the rails I have concluded that Amtrak does not properly manage staffing or job performance.


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## Dakota 400

I agree with Amtrak's policy of keeping Coach passengers out of the Sleepers. But, what if that policy allowed a brief "look-see" for those that might be interested?

December 27, 2018, I was on the Silver Meteor and dined with a Father and his 3 young sons (all of mid to upper elementary grade ages). Like me, they had just boarded at Washington and were excited since this was their first train trip. (They were en route to Disney World.) During our conversation, the fact that I was in a Sleeper came up. The Father and a couple of the boys asked me questions about that. The Father asked if it would be possible for them to have a quick "look-see" at a Sleeper. I told him that in my experience, no, it was not allowed. 

Afterwards, I remembered as a young person my ability to visit the RMS Queen Mary prior to a sailing from New York. That brief visit was enough to make me want "to have that experience for myself". That led to many cruises during my lifetime. I wondered if such a visit to a Sleeper could be permitted, it might make an impression on a young person and they would "resolve": I am going to experience this myself. Does Amtrak loose potential future Sleeper guests by such a policy?


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## pennyk

Dakota 400 said:


> I agree with Amtrak's policy of keeping Coach passengers out of the Sleepers. But, what if that policy allowed a brief "look-see" for those that might be interested?



I believe most sleeping car attendants will permit a quick "look see." It is generally the sleeping car attendant or conductor that conducts the "tour." I have seen it done many times. In fact, a few years ago, I was in coach with friends traveling from Tampa to Orlando and my friends had never seen a sleeping car. I knew one of the attendants, and asked if he would show my friends a sleeping car. He happily did.


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## Dakota 400

pennyk said:


> I believe most sleeping car attendants will permit a quick "look see." It is generally the sleeping car attendant or conductor that conducts the "tour." I have seen it done many times. In fact, a few years ago, I was in coach with friends traveling from Tampa to Orlando and my friends had never seen a sleeping car. I knew one of the attendants, and asked if he would show my friends a sleeping car. He happily did.



I wish I had known that! I did not think to ask my SCA if it would be OK. I did see them in the Dining Car the next morning. We didn't share a table this time, but I do remember we had a brief conversation about "how did you sleep".


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## Nick Farr

railiner said:


> I have two thoughts on this....
> First, as long as everyone pays their rail fare, what difference does it make how many crowd into a sleeper room?



I had this very same thought--however, it's really a matter of reducing problems in the sleeping car section.

The rule is strict for a reason: The problems of people throwing parties, stealing things or being unaccounted for in the event of an accident outweigh the benefits of...being a better experience for a small segment of sleeper car passengers?


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## Qapla

My brother and I were able to have a tour of the sleeper car while riding coach on a day trip to Tampa last year. Right after our tour, the conductor took a couple others on the same tour

We even got to go into the roomette and bedroom (empty ones) to see "how they feel" with the door closed.


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## zephyr17

Barb Stout said:


> How does the "open ticket" thing work? Also, I thought the accommodation charge was per person rather than per room. I'm mixed up?


The accommodation charge is for the room, not per person. Similar to how hotels charge.

"Open Sleeper" tickets are sleeper tickets that don't have a room attached to that reservation. They can be used, for example, if you have a companion for only part of your journey. They are "linked" to the sleeper reservation, but are separate and I think they can only be booked by the holder of the sleeper reservation. Like the rail portion of a sleeper ticket, they are always at the lowest coach "value" bucket, since the passenger won't be occupying a coach seat, consuming coach inventory.

There are a couple of complications. They can't be booked online. It takes a knowledge phone agent to do it. They are one of the very few ticket types that can't be booked as an eticket. It has to be issued as a paper value ticket, so it had to be picked up at a staffed station, a QuikTrak kiosk or mailed.

When I first read this thread, I was going to respond explaining Open Sleeper tickets, but realized that I what I knew was regarding the regular LD trains. I don't know if it applies to the AutoTrain, which is unique in many respects.


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## PVD

good point, I never considered the AT might be different..


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## MARC Rider

Does this mean that we can't have a Silver Streak scenario where the Gene Wilder character invites the Jill Clayburgh character into his compartment for a night of, ahem, "fun"? (Of course, she might have been a fellow sleeper passenger, so maybe it was OK, I don't remember the details of the movie.)


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## gwolfdog

Can you put a Wheelchair in a Bedroom on the Auto Train? Last time we used a WC Roomette. Put adult kids in a smaller Roomette. Wish I had checked out Bedroom.


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## Mailliw

MARC Rider said:


> Does this mean that we can't have a Silver Streak scenario where the Gene Wilder character invites the Jill Clayburgh character into his compartment for a night of, ahem, "fun"? (Of course, she might have been a fellow sleeper passenger, so maybe it was OK, I don't remember the details of the movie.)


She was in the adjacent compartment and they just had the portor open the partition in between to make a suite


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## pennyk

gwolfdog said:


> Can you put a Wheelchair in a Bedroom on the Auto Train? Last time we used a WC Roomette. Put adult kids in a smaller Roomette. Wish I had checked out Bedroom.


Bedrooms on the Auto Train are Superliner bedrooms and a wheelchair will not fit. There is an "H" room in each sleeper car (I believe), which will accommdate a wheelchair.


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## gwolfdog

pennyk said:


> Bedrooms on the Auto Train are Superliner bedrooms and a wheelchair will not fit. There is an "H" room in each sleeper car (I believe), which will accommdate a wheelchair.


Thanks, I must of been in H room. Bunk style bed and a toilet and sink. WC took up most of room, but for an overnight OK


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## Joseph5CP

My wife and I are taking our two young sons, ages 4 and 1, to New Orleans from our home in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We wanted to have a roomette available for diaper-changing and naps but certainly didn't need to two rooms, as its just a day-trip. Therefore, we purchased two Coach tickets and two tickets which are linked to a roomette. From the above, it seems that my wife and one-year-old who (randomly) we booked as Coach seats are not going to be permitted to use the roomette??? Thanks


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## 20th Century Rider

Joseph5CP said:


> My wife and I are taking our two young sons, ages 4 and 1, to New Orleans from our home in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We wanted to have a roomette available for diaper-changing and naps but certainly didn't need to two rooms, as its just a day-trip. Therefore, we purchased two Coach tickets and two tickets which are linked to a roomette. From the above, it seems that my wife and one-year-old who (randomly) we booked as Coach seats are not going to be permitted to use the roomette??? Thanks


Call Amtrak and have the agent note this in your reservation. Technically two adults and two infants sitting on the lap may be allowed but of course having two passenger seats and the roomette will provide you with the best 'space' option. RE the meal... you should be able to get two meals for you and bring along the appropriate foods for your young children. Informing the station mgr at NOL to talk with the conductor may also smooth your way. Have a nice trip!


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## pennyk

Joseph5CP said:


> My wife and I are taking our two young sons, ages 4 and 1, to New Orleans from our home in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We wanted to have a roomette available for diaper-changing and naps but certainly didn't need to two rooms, as its just a day-trip. Therefore, we purchased two Coach tickets and two tickets which are linked to a roomette. From the above, it seems that my wife and one-year-old who (randomly) we booked as Coach seats are not going to be permitted to use the roomette??? Thanks


I do not think the two coach passengers will be permitted to use the roomette unless you are able to change the reservation. I would call Amtrak and hope to speak to an experienced agent. You may be able to book all 4 of you into a room since the 4th is under 2 and the 3rd is a child and the room is for daytime use only. @Ryan seems to know the rules for maximum passengers in a room.


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## Ryan

You rang???? 

That's a tough one for the reason you mention - ordinarily 4 ticketed in the room is a no-go (unless it's 4 kids, which sounds like a real treat). But since the infant is an infant, that might be permissible? Your advice to call and hope for a good agent is sound.

While I'm usually particular about the rules, and "coach passengers aren't entitled to sleeping car access", I'd be inclined to hope for an understanding train crew that allowed you all to do what you need with a minimum of hassle provided you're not disturbing others.

For completeness, here are the tables of allowable/not-allowable room occupancy:


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## PVD

Under 2 years old might not be ticketed and may not count


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## 20th Century Rider

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## Devil's Advocate

Joseph5CP said:


> My wife and I are taking our two young sons, ages 4 and 1, to New Orleans from our home in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We wanted to have a roomette available for diaper-changing and naps but certainly didn't need to two rooms, as its just a day-trip. Therefore, we purchased two Coach tickets and two tickets which are linked to a roomette. From the above, it seems that my wife and one-year-old who (randomly) we booked as Coach seats are not going to be permitted to use the roomette??? Thanks


Amtrak policy does not normally allow four people to share a Roomette and two coach seats. This happened to me when we tried to book two compartments but only one Roomette was left on the train we needed. Even if you get the booking desk to say it is okay that may not mean much to the on-board staff. My advice would be to explain it as needing privacy for your kids rather than for shared napping and such (even if that's how you use it).


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## 20th Century Rider

Devil's Advocate said:


> Amtrak policy does not normally allow four people to share a Roomette and two coach seats. This happened to me when we tried to book two compartments but only one Roomette was left on the train we needed. Even if you get the booking desk to say it is okay that may not mean much to the on-board staff. My advice would be to explain it as needing privacy for your kids rather than for shared napping and such (even if that's how you use it).


Here again is the issue of clarity and consistency with Amtrak policy. That is why this should be checked out with an experienced agent who can make notes on the reservation to validate any permissions. 

BTW: If the agent says it is not ok according to specific policy... then plan accordingly. The issue seems to be 'use of the room by different members of a small party exchanging places with the passenger seats.' And all four of you gathering in the single roomette could be questionable. It would be nice if the four of you could come together in a lounge area but that may be situation specific.


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## 20th Century Rider

I did pose that question to the conductor before going with someone at their invitation to visit with them in their bedroom... the conductor told me it was ok to visit during the day. 

Again... the policy for visiting another's passenger's accommodation during the day is not really clear but what the conductor told me on the above occasion seemed to make good sense when it's just a couple and a single visiting passenger from another part of the train.


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## jis

20th Century Rider said:


> I did pose that question to the conductor before going with someone at their invitation to visit with them in their bedroom... the conductor told me it was ok to visit during the day.
> 
> Again... the policy for visiting another's passenger's accommodation during the day is not really clear but what the conductor told me on the above occasion seemed to make good sense when it's just a couple and a single visiting passenger from another part of the train.


I think once a Conductor is notified and they OK it, it should be fine. But just doing it without notifying any train personnel would seem to be verboten.


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## 20th Century Rider

jis said:


> I think once a Conductor is notified and they OK it, it should be fine. But just doing it without notifying any train personnel would seem to be verboten.


Yes... I agree!


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## denmarks

I don't see why Amtrak has to be so strict if you wanted to escort a coach passenger to the sleeper. Maybe they just want to see what it is like. Would a sleeper passenger be able to sit next to someone in coach if there was an empty seat? I guess the only common meeting place would be the observation car.


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## Joe from PA

I would rather not have coach passengers "looking in". They should be escorted by a sleeping car attendant if roomettes are empty (which is zero on the 3/19 Star).


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## Skyline

A slightly different twist on the same general topic . . .

Pax A is solo in a roomette (or bedroom). Pax B is solo in a coach seat. A and B connect in the lounge car, decide to hook up, and A invites B to join him or her in the sleeping compartment he or she paid for. What business is it of Amtrak's or anyone to "police" this situation? Both have paid their appropriate fares.


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## jis

Skyline said:


> A slightly different twist on the same general topic . . .
> 
> Pax A is solo in a roomette (or bedroom). Pax B is solo in a coach seat. A and B connect in the lounge car, decide to hook up, and A invites B to join him or her in the sleeping compartment he or she paid for. What business is it of Amtrak's or anyone to "police" this situation? Both have paid their appropriate fares.


It is pretty simple. A passenger holding a Coach ticket cannot just move to Sleeper without making a change in the ticket - recall the "Open Sleeper Ticket" discussion? That is the current rule. One could ask the Conductor and if they say it is OK then it is OK. But it is not OK just doing it without notifying the train crew, just because the fares happen to come out the same.

Incidentally, a gentle reminder, the site rules do restrict discussion of ways to break Amtrak rules BTW.


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## UserNameRequired

Devil's Advocate said:


> ... My advice would be to explain it as needing privacy for your kids rather than for shared napping and such (even if that's how you use it).


I don't have experience with the 4 in one room policies, but my idea would be to claim your children are ill behaved, prone to motion sickness with projectile vomiting, won't sit still even at night, loud screamers, list out other negative behaviors, etc. and if they are required to ride in coach with no supervision they will cause mayhem, noise, and complaints from all the other coach passengers.


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## 20th Century Rider

The same can be said regarding another parallel situation... many 'fancy' 1st class airline suites have an adjacent seat in the compartment allowing for dining with a companion... however... that other person must also be in the 1st class section. RE: Amtrak doesn't allow another passenger to upgrade their accommodation at the invitation of another passenger. 

Most transportation requires appropriate payment for traveling in a specific class of service... and that also applies to traveling in a lower class of service. This happened to me when on the CS and I wanted to view the ocean side. I asked the attendant if I could sit in business class on the ocean side because my room accommodation was on the opposite side. He declined my request and said Amtrak can't have people changing their accommodations and just moving around the train. Even if the SSL is completely full.

That brings up another issue that may be considered on topic... I've frequently seen an individual move up from coach seating and occupying a complete table in the SSL by spreading their luggage to all the surrounding chairs and on the table... and remaining there throughout the trip. This is against policy... not only to hog surrounding seats, but to remain there for more than a few hours. Whenever this is reported to any of the staff they tell the person to go back to their coach seat.


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## 20th Century Rider

UserNameRequired said:


> I don't have experience with the 4 in one room policies, but my idea would be to claim your children are ill behaved, prone to motion sickness with projectile vomiting, won't sit still even at night, loud screamers, list out other negative behaviors, etc. and if they are required to ride in coach with no supervision they will cause mayhem, noise, and complaints from all the other coach passengers.


Uncontrolled kids remain the responsibility of the adult / guardian... and does not permit that upgrade. This would certainly be disturbing to others in the sleeper car... Kids are expected to remain with the adult and appropriately supervised and behaved while on the train.


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## jis

20th Century Rider said:


> Uncontrolled kids remain the responsibility of the adult / guardian... and does not permit that upgrade. This would certainly be disturbing to others in the sleeper car... Kids are expected to remain with the adult and appropriately supervised and behaved while on the train.


That is exactly what I was thinking. The proposed argument would appear to be a strong one for not traveling at all.


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## joelkfla

UserNameRequired said:


> I don't have experience with the 4 in one room policies, but my idea would be to claim your children are ill behaved, prone to motion sickness with projectile vomiting, won't sit still even at night, loud screamers, list out other negative behaviors, etc. and if they are required to ride in coach *with no supervision* they will cause mayhem, noise, and complaints from all the other coach passengers.


If I were the conductor, I would simply say that one adult has to stay with kid(s). Remember, conductors are the bosses of the train, and have the power to kick off passengers who challenge their authority, which may occur in the middle of the night in some small hick town with no taxi or Uber service.


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## tgstubbs1

It looks like the rules allow 2 kids and one adult in the room. Maybe change the reservation to that, unless you foresee the adults keeping one kid each in different cars.
It's not a very long trip.


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## Asher

Kurt said:


> Hi,
> 
> Tomorrow I will be taking the auto train from Lorton to Sanford. It is going to be my 5th time on the train - I am a junior at UMiami who lives in the northeast. Normally I'd be in a roomette but because of the pandemic and the lower prices that come with it I decided to stay in a bedroom. For the first time I have 3 friends coincidentally also on the train, they will all be in coach however. I told them they are more than welcome to come hang out in my bedroom during the afternoon part of the journey. They won't be sleeping there but I don't know if this would be disallowed or anger the sleeping porter, especially because of the pandemic.



Plain and simple no


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## cassie225

What I don’t like is the conductor ok it for someone to come to my sleeper without my ok. I remember I met this lady on the Crescent, we ate together but she was a talker, I’m a talker and she out talked me. She was in coach she said and I told her I was in a sleeper, we finished eating talked a while longer and both went our separate ways, a little later I looked up and she was at my sleeper compartment, said someone told her it was ok and there she was, not wanting to be rude I invited her in and she talked non stop. She finally left and I prayed she didn’t return. Lol


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## 20th Century Rider

jis said:


> It is pretty simple. A passenger holding a Coach ticket cannot just move to Sleeper without making a change in the ticket - recall the "Open Sleeper Ticket" discussion? That is the current rule. One could ask the Conductor and if they say it is OK then it is OK. But it is not OK just doing it without notifying the train crew, just because the fares happen to come out the same.
> 
> Incidentally, a gentle reminder, the site rules do restrict discussion of ways to break Amtrak rules BTW.


Exactly... because if that was allowed, then you would have parties of two making plans to share the varied accommodations while one gets away with paying much less. All transit modes are quite strict about this... airlines certainly don't allow passengers to come and sit with a friend who is paying for first class. 

The higher level of service born by the transport provider is product which the customer must pay for.


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## Devil's Advocate

Skyline said:


> Pax A is solo in a roomette (or bedroom). Pax B is solo in a coach seat. A and B connect in the lounge car, decide to hook up, and A invites B to join him or her in the sleeping compartment he or she paid for. What business is it of Amtrak's or anyone to "police" this situation? Both have paid their appropriate fares.


Maybe this was a routine phenomenon back in the 1970's but it does not seem to be very common today. On the trains I ride a typical age difference between sleeper and coach is multiple decades, and the wrong kind of invite could risk removal or arrest, so maybe it's much ado about nothing?


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## Ryan

20th Century Rider said:


> Exactly... because if that was allowed, then you would have parties of two making plans to share the varied accommodations while one gets away with paying much less.


You've got it backwards. Given that the additional charge to put a second adult in the room is on the lower side of coach fares, in many (most?) cases it's cheaper to book two in a room the "right" way than it is to pay more for a higher-bucket coach fare and then try and sneak into the room.


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## jebr

Ryan said:


> You've got it backwards. Given that the additional charge to put a second adult in the room is on the lower side of coach fares, in many (most?) cases it's cheaper to book two in a room the "right" way than it is to pay more for a higher-bucket coach fare and then try and sneak into the room.



Given the recent changes to the rail fare portion of sleeper fares, there's likely a lot of instances where a coach ticket is cheaper than the rail fare component of a room. Rail fare equates to the third-lowest coach bucket in my recent experience - saver and lowest-bucket value fares are lower than rail fare currently. If saver tickets are available or the value fare is still at low bucket, coach is cheaper than rail fare; in my (admittedly limited) experience I've found that if I'm booking at least a few weeks out on the Empire Builder either saver's still available and/or value's still at low bucket. Even closer in I often see coach still at low bucket.

When rail fare equaled the lowest value fare bucket, I'd tend to agree that in many/most cases rail fare would be the same or cheaper than a coach ticket. But with the recent changes, I'd suspect that a majority of the time coach fare is the same or lower than rail fare. Not that it really matters in practice - if you want to go into a sleeper you can't avoid paying the rail fare, at least per policy.


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## 20th Century Rider

Ryan said:


> You've got it backwards. Given that the additional charge to put a second adult in the room is on the lower side of coach fares, in many (most?) cases it's cheaper to book two in a room the "right" way than it is to pay more for a higher-bucket coach fare and then try and sneak into the room.


Reservations fares are situation specific... depending on the date and destination. Right now there's a promotion where the 2nd person in a roomette can travel for free depending on the included dates of the promotion. In the example below, two traveling with one in roomette and one in coach is less expensive. The difference in the example below is an additional $216 for two in the roomette, or $80 more than one coach fare and one roomette fare.

Of course you can go and check in a few minutes and it could change... the point is that reservation fares are situation specific and in constant change...


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## jis

I think the OP was about something way less Machiavellian than fare manipulation though.


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## Haolenate

Friend that used to work for Amtrak said this is a firm policy after the Bourbonnais crash - both in evacuation and also (gulp) recovery.


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