# 2nd Motorcoach Amenities Poll (Please read OP before voting)



## Swadian Hardcore (May 2, 2015)

Let's say you have to travel from Denver to Billings. You can't ride a train from Denver to Billings. You can travel by motorcoach, plane, or car. You have a car and a driver's license, and you own a normal $20,000 sedan, nothing fancy. The air service is limited and relatively expensive, so you're thinking about taking the bus. But the distance is not short and luxury buses are not available.

You could also apply this situation to other routes. The route in question must fulfill the following conditions:


At least 400 miles long.
No passenger rail service.
Limited air service.
You have a normal car and hold a non-commercial driver's license.
You don't own a plane.
No luxury bus service.

Your hypothetical options are:


Car
Airline "X" (starting at $120, takes 1.5 hours)
Bus line "Y" (starting at $30, takes 9 hours)
Remember, these fares and times are hypothetical, just like how the amenities would be hypothetical. Greyhound doesn't even operate Denver-Billings and their codeshare Black Hills is obsolete and has trouble competing on that route.

Some other routes like Denver-Billings would be Denver-Albuquerque, Denver-El Paso, Salt Lake City-Portland, etc.

In this situation, which of these amenities would convince you to take the bus? Choose as many as you want.

1. A few more inches of legroom

Reduced seating for more legroom.
2. Extra Recline
Increase the maximum recline.
3. Extra Lumbar Support
More support for your waist as you sit down, also provides "bonus recline".
4. Extra Seat Padding
More padding into the seats.
5. Window Shades
Pull-down window shades.
6. Enclosed Overhead Parcel Racks
Little doors on the overhead parcel racks.
7. Overhead TV
Self-explanatory.
8. Personal (seatback) TV
Self-explanatory.
9. Lavatory with Sink & Running Water
Self-explanatory.
10. Extra Luggage Allowance/Capacity
Increase the luggage capacity with bigger cargo holds, allowing each passenger to take two full-size checked bags instead of one.
11. Bigger Windows
Self-explanatory.
12. Capped Air Vents
The window escape bar will wrap around the air vents for cleaner vents and to prevent airflow from blowing in your face.
13. Footrests
Self-explanatory.

14. Legrests
15. Wi-Fi
Install Wi-Fi router to connect to the Internet on the move.
16. Power Outlets
Install 110v power outlets to charge electronic devices on the move.
17. Indirect Lighting
Lighting that will be recessed and less intrusive.
18. Mood Lighting
Colored lighting.
19. Thermopane Window
Reduce window glare and increase scenery-viewing comfort.
20. Three-Point Seat Belts
Self-explanatory.

What type of headrest do you prefer?
1. Winged adjustable headrest
Adjustable headrests with wings on the sides.
2. Narrow adjustable headrest
Narrow, flat adjustable headrests.
3. Wide fixed headrest
Old-fashioned wide headrests built into the seatback.

Which extra amenities do you want the most on a motorcoach?
Most of these are minor and the self-explanatory ones have no explanation.
1. Cup Holders
2. Magazine Net
3. Driver Call Button
Press an overhead button to alert to driver to your needs.
4. Audio/Radio System
Plug in headphones and listen to audio.
5. Carpeted Seat Backs
Cushy but gets dirty easily.
6. Fabric Seat Backs
Not so cushy but doesn't get dirty easily.
7. Tray Tables
8. Fold-up Center Armrest
9. Grab Handle with Coat Hook
10. Aisle Lights
Little lights along the aisle side of the seats.
11. Reversible Seating
Flip the seats around to make a booth at the expensive of legroom and privacy.
12. Cloth Velour Seat Covers
Warm, old-fashioned cloth seat covers.
13. Vinyl/Faux-Leather Seat Covers
14. Leather Seat Covers
15. Entrance Step Feature
An extra step comes out from below the stairwell to assist boarding without needing the extra yellow stool.


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## Ryan (May 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> In this situation, which of these amenities would convince you to take the bus? Choose as many as you want.


Null vote, I'm driving.


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## Paulus (May 2, 2015)

Ditto for me as well due to tendencies towards motion sickness. Hate driving long distance, but hate puking more.


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## rickycourtney (May 3, 2015)

Ugh. 9 hours on a bus or in a car sounds miserable, I'd fly in that case unless my budget was really tight.

A much better scenario is the Portland to Seattle market, since taking a bus, train or driving is competitive with flying.

•A flight on Alaska Airlines takes 47 minutes, but you need to factor in travel time and costs between the airport and the city center. So you can add an additional $5.50 and 90 minutes (2 hours, 17 minutes total) if you take light rail on both ends or $80 and 40 minutes (1 hour, 27 minutes total) if you take a cab on both ends.

•Amtrak service is a consistent 3 hours, 50 minutes from city center to city center.

•Greyhound ranges between 3 hours, 45 minutes to 4 hours, 15 minutes from city center to city center depending on traffic and how many stops you make.

•The non-stop BoltBus takes about 3 hours, 15 minutes from city center to city center (longer if there's traffic).

• Driving takes about 3 hours from city center to city center (longer if there's traffic).

Booking a month in advance:

Alaska Airlines: $72.10

Amtrak: $26

BoltBus: $11–21 (+$1.50 booking fee)

Greyhound: $14–19 (+$2.50 booking fee)

Booking 48 hours in advance:

Alaska Airlines: $187.10

Amtrak: $34

BoltBus: $15–20 (+$1.50 booking fee)

Greyhound: $18.50–21.50 (+$2.50 booking fee)

AAA puts the average cost of driving at 60.8¢ per mile so driving would cost you $106.

This scenario works really for any city pair that's around 150-250 miles apart.

Personally I've travelled using all 4 methods and each have their own benefits and drawbacks.


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 3, 2015)

9hrs on a bus vs flying. I would take the plane 10/10 times. I have been faced with this situation not so much in the US, but in parts of Asia. There are so many low cost flight options over there that flying those short hops just makes so much more sense. Only did one long drive in Laos between Vientiane and Luang Prabang since there were no flight options. Made the trip in a mini bus, which considering the mountain roads was a much better choice.


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## jebr (May 3, 2015)

rickycourtney said:


> AAA puts the average cost of driving at 60.8¢ per mile so driving would cost you $106.


I think the only time anyone would have a sunk cost of 60.8¢ per mile would be if they're renting a car (and possibly having to buy insurance with it for that specific trip.) Otherwise the sunk cost would either be 57.5¢/mile (if it's a business trip and the traveler is taking a personal vehicle, the business should be paying the IRS mileage rate) or the incidental cost of driving an additional number of miles (if it's a fleet vehicle that is not being used, or someone driving their personal vehicle on a personal trip.) I would argue that the medical/moving rate would best reflect that (as that attempts to cover the variable cost of driving) and that would be 23¢/mile.

Now there's always the "time lost" argument of driving, perhaps countered by the convenience of a vehicle, but that's each person's individual situation. But in my case, I already have paid for the car and insurance, so I wouldn't consider the cost of owning a car when I'm looking at whether to make an additional trip with my car or to take an alternative form of transportation.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2015)

I'd drive.

My parents live 240 miles away, and I make that drive all the time. I could take Greyhound to see them, but it would take approximately eight hours instead of 3.5 hours. That's just ridiculous.

300 miles really isn't that long. It would take me around four hours. If I had a $20,000 sedan and good music, I'd be comfortable and happy.

Plus, I tend to get carsick on buses. <_<


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 3, 2015)

OK, then, I'll increase it to at least 400 miles.


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## Ryan (May 3, 2015)

That's still an easy drive. My personal limit (me doing all the driving, wife and kids in the car) is about 700 miles (Baltimore to Atlanta).

Any more than that, and flying or taking the train will win.


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## jis (May 3, 2015)

The reality for me is that bus would be my last choice in almost all cases. Nothing universal about that. It is just my personal choice.

Specifically Denver to billings, I'd drive.


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## JayPea (May 3, 2015)

I'd drive. I like a good road trip.


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## ljohn2030 (May 3, 2015)

Great question. My limit is about 8 hours, and even then - I am a zombie for a few hours after the drive, and exhausted. Plus - add the worry of where your car is going to be while you are at your destination - is it safe? what if you break down? Flying is torture (care to sit on a tarmac for 8+ hrs), and you are essentially "on point/display" from the moment you leave your house, until you get to your destination - whether it be going through security, or waiting for your luggage at the carousel or sitting in the airport - also very exhausting. Don't underestimate the value of access to a bathroom either. Airplanes and/or airports - good luck, same with driving. While travelling by bus is usually a new level of pain, at least someone else is doing the driving, and you can do it relatively inexpensively, and you can eat and use the bathroom when you want.

Bottom line - consider the destination, and safety of your car. Under 400 miles = drive; over 400 miles - consider bus, or plane as a last resort.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2015)

I would still drive, even if it were 400 miles. Buses make me carsick, even in the front seat.

If the distance is longer than my tolerance for driving (about 500 miles), I'll fly or take a train.


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 3, 2015)

Well, cars make me bussick after 1 hour. Yes, only 60 minutes in a car is my limit. That's why I never rent a car when I travel. However, I don't get bussick when I'm flying or traveling by train, unless it's an Amtrak train. I'm still pissed at Greyhound and I've had to boycott 70% of their network (50% of their fleet) due to them deploying torture seats with "extra legroom". This poll was intended to be a survey on what passenger want of bus lines over long distances, certainly not excruciating pain on an American Seating Premier LS.

I think ljohn2030 makes the best point. Traveling by bus can be a new level of pain. So what do we do about that bus to get rid of that new level of pain? It is certainly not impossible. A bus may be a bus, but it doesn't have to be a torture machine, either. A bus is much larger than a car, and it is integral, not body-on-frame, so it can certainly be more comfortable than driving, and it doesn't have to take longer as long as it can hold the speed limit. Plus, it usually has much longer driving range than a car. If I had a private bus, I'd drive that long-haul over a car all the time, as long as I could afford the diesel.

BTW, I do know a lot of the USA road network and I will be able to drive more than 60 minutes if it's a US Highway. State highways aren't really useful over long distances and Interstates can be stressful. US Highways are my favorite, by bus or by car.


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## JayPea (May 3, 2015)

It depends where I'm going. In August I am taking a road trip to Mt. Rushmore, about 900 or so miles one way. Obviously taking Amtrak is no option. Neither Spokane nor Rapid City are the easiest nor cheapest places to fly in and out of; upwards of $600 for roundtrip flights. Of course it's just a few hours of flying time. For Greyhound it's $356 roundtrip and about 18 hours one way. To me, driving is a no-brainer. Sure, by the time I pay for gas and motels (I will break the trip over and back each into 2 days so one motel each way) the Hound is cheaper, until you add in the cost of renting a car. Not to mention the hassle. So it's a road trip for me.


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## jis (May 3, 2015)

Heck, if I could afford it I'd rent a Gulfstream with pilot and cabin crew to get there and then rent a limo with driver at the destination.  

More seriously, usually when I drive long distance on a leisure trip, I throw in extra time to allow me to get off the interstate off the beaten path onto local roads that are know to be scenic. Driving on interstates gets pretty boring for me after a while.

I have done some pretty long distance stuff, including Chicago to NJ with only food and bio break stops, and no overnight stop and such. For me there is a different sort of fun in driving long distance and generally I don't find it to be particularly stressful. But again, that may be just me.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2015)

I like you, Swadian, so I voted, even though I get bussick. 

I do think some buses are quite comfortable, like the bus they use between Emeryville and San Francisco, but even that ride made me a little sick by the time I got to the city. So, it's not that I'm totally anti-bus; I've just never been in a situation that wouldn't allow for either driving, flying, or taking a train.

I've weighed the option of taking Greyhound to Chicago, usually when Amtrak tickets are stupid-high, but then I think about feeling ill and end up driving instead.


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## Ispolkom (May 3, 2015)

Four hours is generally my limit on a bus. Denver to Billings? I'd drive that again in a heartbeat. It would give me a chance to stop in Thermopolis to see the _Archaeopteryx _specimen they have, and then also stop over in Cody to spend some time at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. Wide open country, empty roads, and interesting, visible geology, for me it would be a nice relaxing drive, in the summer at least.


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## railiner (May 4, 2015)

JayPea said:


> I'd drive. I like a good road trip.





jis said:


> More seriously, usually when I drive long distance on a leisure trip, I throw in extra time to allow me to get off the interstate off the beaten path onto local roads that are know to be scenic. Driving on interstates gets pretty boring for me after a while.
> 
> I have done some pretty long distance stuff, including Chicago to NJ with only food and bio break stops, and no overnight stop and such. For me there is a different sort of fun in driving long distance and generally I don't find it to be particularly stressful. But again, that may be just me.


I concur....I love road trips. My friends nicknamed me "the driving machine". Once I get going, I get into a 'groove', and hate to stop. Longest car trip non-stop, other than refueling was Denver to NYC. And when I reached my destination, I got depressed that it was over, and felt like continuing on to Maine or the Maritimes....


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 4, 2015)

JayPea said:


> It depends where I'm going. In August I am taking a road trip to Mt. Rushmore, about 900 or so miles one way. Obviously taking Amtrak is no option. Neither Spokane nor Rapid City are the easiest nor cheapest places to fly in and out of; upwards of $600 for roundtrip flights. Of course it's just a few hours of flying time. For Greyhound it's $356 roundtrip and about 18 hours one way. To me, driving is a no-brainer. Sure, by the time I pay for gas and motels (I will break the trip over and back each into 2 days so one motel each way) the Hound is cheaper, until you add in the cost of renting a car. Not to mention the hassle. So it's a road trip for me.


Wait, Greyhound doesn't operate in South Dakota anymore! Greyhound doesn't operate anything east of Missoula until Minneapolis. So, I'm a bit baffled. Go to the Greyhound System Timetable (http://extranet.greyhound.com/Revsup/schedules/) and try to find a Greyhound bus that goes through Rapid City. It's shown on the map, but Greyhound's maps suck and are always inaccurate.

Hey Sarah, don't take a Greyhound to Chicago unless you want to get tortured! Well, I guess it's only a short ride, but still, it's painful.

How about Denver-Billings in the winter, then? By the way, the current bus line on that route is also incompetent.


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## nightrider (May 4, 2015)

How about this?

http://www.megabusgold.com/The-Gold-Experience/Take-the-tour/


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## jebr (May 4, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > It depends where I'm going. In August I am taking a road trip to Mt. Rushmore, about 900 or so miles one way. Obviously taking Amtrak is no option. Neither Spokane nor Rapid City are the easiest nor cheapest places to fly in and out of; upwards of $600 for roundtrip flights. Of course it's just a few hours of flying time. For Greyhound it's $356 roundtrip and about 18 hours one way. To me, driving is a no-brainer. Sure, by the time I pay for gas and motels (I will break the trip over and back each into 2 days so one motel each way) the Hound is cheaper, until you add in the cost of renting a car. Not to mention the hassle. So it's a road trip for me.
> ...


You can buy a ticket to Rapid City on the Greyhound website, though. I would imagine you could even print your ticket online through the Greyhound website (when I took the bus DSM - MSP on JL I booked through the Greyhound website and printed out my ticket online through greyhound.com)

Most people, when they see a ticket on the Greyhound website and buy it through Greyhound they'll say that they'll be taking Greyhound, even if the bus is a Jefferson Lines bus or another interline carrier bus. I can't blame them; Greyhound doesn't seem to distinguish them incredibly obviously, last I checked.


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## JayPea (May 4, 2015)

I did go through the system timetable and was able to get a trip from Spokane to Rapid City. Now at Missoula it did indicate a transfer from Greyhound to another carrier. So if I were inclined, which I am not, I could go from Spokane to Rapid City by bus. Thanks, but no thanks.


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## John Bredin (May 4, 2015)

Well, this thread proves the old saw that "one man's meat is another man's poison." Driving for more than a couple of hours is a chore to me, and a masochistic marathon drive from Chicago to the East Coast with only food and washroom breaks (to come up with a wholly random example  ) would be my idea of the fifth circle of Hell. :blink: (Dante was just born too early.  )

The farthest I've driven is Chicago-Madison, though I've been a passenger on longer drives. I've taken Megabus from Cleveland to Chicago when I took Amtrak to Cleveland for a rail advocacy meeting  but didn't want to wait several hours (into the wee hours of the morning!) after the meeting for a return train.


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## Bob Dylan (May 4, 2015)

Longest car trip: San Diego to New London, Conn. while in the Navy!

Longest Bus trip: Tiajuana to Mexico City!(2nd Class!!)

Longest continuous Train trip: Nogales,Son. to Mexico City!

Chances of the Car or Bus trip happening now: Zero!!!

Chances of the train trip ( if it was still possible!! Sigh) Vamanos!!!


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## GG-1 (May 4, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Longest car trip: San Diego to New London, Conn. while in the Navy!


I would have to check but my longest trip is close. Manchester Conn. to Los Angeles Just for the heck of it, but I did not go back. Later went on to Hawaii.

Aloha


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## jis (May 4, 2015)

GG-1 said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Longest car trip: San Diego to New London, Conn. while in the Navy!
> ...


Did you at least use a motorboat to Hawaii?


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## Bob Dylan (May 4, 2015)

He took the train through the Aloha Tunnel!! LOL


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## railiner (May 5, 2015)

Longest bus trip...New York to Fairbanks in 1970, with one overnight stop in Montana....

Longest Amtrak trip....a 30 day marathon on Amtrak in the late 70's on an unlimited USA Railpass....coast to coast to coast to coast, etc......

Longest plane trip....round-the-world, (JFK-NRT-HKG-LHR-JFK)....in four and a half days! 

Longest space trip...TBD....


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## rrdude (May 5, 2015)

Longest car trip: Ann Arbor to Fairbanks, while in college.

Longest Bus trip: Glenwood Springs to Ann Arbor, while in high school.

Longest continuous Train trip: San Diego to Baltimore, via Coast Starlite, Builder, Cap.

Chances of the Car or Bus trip happening now: *Zero*!!!

Chances of the Car  trip happening now: *It could happen.*

Chances of the train trip ( if it was still possible!! Sigh) *Vamanos*!!

Satisfaction with Amtrak's Long Distance On Board Service, Food, and Amenities? *Almost Zero!*


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## Ryan (May 5, 2015)

AA to Fairbanks sounds like a heck of a fun drive.


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## jis (May 5, 2015)

Ryan said:


> AA to Fairbanks sounds like a heck of a fun drive.


Yup. I would do that if I could find the time. Perhaps not from AA, but say from Edmonton to Fairbanks.


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## rrdude (May 5, 2015)

Ryan said:


> AA to Fairbanks sounds like a heck of a fun drive.


I was indeed a "hoot", well before the AlCan was paved, all the way, as I hear it has been for some time.

I stopped in Jackson Hole, and we drove up to Glacier Park, (meet my roommates at the "Silver Dollar Bar" in JH, had to coordinate WEEKS in advance, remember kiddies, they "weren't no such thing as cell phones back in 1976!)

We backpacked thru Glacier for a week or so, (it rained almost every day, of course!) and then I said "Adios" and headed to Canada. Picked up a hitch-hiker along the way, just for company, and of course they found week on him at the boarder crossing, so that delayed my crossing about 30 minutes. (imagine today!) and OFF I DROVE.

Highlight of the trip, _*of course*_ was after I dropped the car off in Fairbanks, I boarded the (then) State of Alaska's passenger train south to (then) Mt. McKinley National Park. Bopped around McKinley for a few days, and boarded the next train south, to Anchorage.

Hadn't been back 'til last summer, and I sure as heck didn't remember much of Anchorage at all, if any. Memory is the second thing to go.............


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## railiner (May 5, 2015)

rrdude said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > AA to Fairbanks sounds like a heck of a fun drive.
> ...


When I rode the bus up the AlCan, it was gravel in the Yukon, and paved in Alaska, IIRC....the gravel was maintained easily by running a road grader over it periodically,, and consequently, it offered a superior ride than the frost-heave plagued paved section.....

I also rode the AuRoRa train from Fairbanks down to Anchorage....I recall it having some hand-me-down former US Army hospital cars that were converted into lounges like the ones Amtrak ran for a few years from the same source. There were no dome cars at that time, nor private cruiseline cars in the train. The oil pipeline had not been built yet, and the tourism explosion was just a trickle....the movie 'Ice Palace' had put Alaska 'on the map' after statehood....

One thing I vaguely remember was the jukebox in the lounge car, which accompanied the university kids dancing on board...


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