# USA Rail Pass



## p&sr (Sep 28, 2008)

As of today, the terms for the USA Rail Pass (on Amtrak's Website) have changed substantially.

Instead of unlimited travel for the duration of the Pass, the holder is limited to a certain number of Travel Segments. Every time you step on to a different Train or Bus, this counts as another Segment.

For example, from my home in the North Bay to Los Angeles is now 3 segments... Bus from home to Martinez, Train to Bakersfield, then Bus to Los Angeles.

All travel must be completed within 180 days of purchasing the Pass.

Limited seats for the Pass are available on each train (possible upgrade at cost), suggesting they still use the "low bucket seats only" criterion for availability.

There is no longer any price difference between Peak Season and the rest of the Year.

Pricing for Adults is as follows:

$389 for 8 segments over 15 days.

$579 for 12 segments over 30 days.

$749 for 18 segments over 45 days.

Suggestion: for those planning long and complex itineraries, put the expensive segments on the Pass (long-distance and overnight Trains), then for the shorter connecting segments put some on the Pass (as many as will fit) and purchase regular Tickets for the rest.

Good luck!


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## msbask (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm planning a trek from NYP to LAX (with multiple stops in between) for next spring, and plan on using the USA Rail Pass.

As far as the changes go, on the 'pro' side, I don't have to worry about spilling over past May 15, since there is no 'peak' and 'off peak' anymore. The 8 segment limit will work fine for me as well.

The first 'con' I can think of is that I won't be able to buy my ticket on October 1st like I planned, since I won't be traveling for at least another 6 months. That could be a real problem if only the lowest bucket seats are available to pass holders (without extra charge).


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## p&sr (Sep 28, 2008)

msbask said:


> The first 'con' I can think of is that I won't be able to buy my ticket on October 1st like I planned, since I won't be traveling for at least another 6 months. That could be a real problem if only the lowest bucket seats are available to pass holders (without extra charge).


You could try reserving the segments you need now, while low bucket seats are still available. Then later on find out whether or not those reservations could be transferred onto your Pass. Nothing to lose by trying, because the unticketed reservations are fully refundable.


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## caravanman (Sep 28, 2008)

This simply makes the pass less good value, and less flexible for rail travel. I think one needs to buy a pass in order to "hang" the seat eservations on it, I doubt that paying for a seat, then trying to transfer it to your pass would work? Guess the 6 months limit for advance reservations makes price hikes more likley too.. next stage reservations no more than 6 months in advance for all?

The pass was certainly a great deal for me as a foreign tourist a few years ago, I will have to do the maths afresh now. Anyone know how much Greyhound bus fares have risen.......?

Ed B)


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 28, 2008)

That sounds like I needed it last month on my cross-country exodus, even with my discount I could have saved a hundred bucks on my tickets...

How do AGR work with the pass?


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## the_traveler (Sep 28, 2008)

I don't like the "$389 for 8 segments over 15 days" restriction! :angry:

During my upcoming 15 day trip, I will be traveling LAX-SAC-SFC-PDX between Sunday morning and Monday afternoon. That's 1 1/2 days - and it will be 7 segments! So that means for the other 13 1/2 days, I would be limited to *1 segment*? :blink:


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## the_traveler (Sep 28, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> How do AGR work with the pass?


If it's like the other passes (like the monthly), you would only get the 2 points/$ for the *COST* of the pass. You would *NOT* earn additional points per segment!


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## caravanman (Sep 28, 2008)

I guess we will have to pay extra for "short hops" in addition to saving the pass sections to pay for longer journeys.. as p&sr suggests. Doing the math reveals that *each segment* is priced at just over *$48* for the 15 and 30 day passes, and around *$41* for the 45 day version.

Am I just being cynical in thinking that removing the peak / non peak barrier is not a great bonus.. given how full trains are nowadays, the chances of being able to use a pass to buy a peak season seat at the lowest bucket price would be close to zero? So I am thinking it is an off peak pass, in effect, with greater restrictions...

There is also quite a confusing conflict of info on the Amtrak "buy railpass here" page about using the pass within a year, and finishing trips within 180 days, or am I just reading it wrong?

Ed B)


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## Dan O (Sep 28, 2008)

Speaking as a newbie to this forum and to Amtrak in general, the "pass" never seemed quite right to me. When I think of pass I think of riding on the train for the cost of the pass if there is room for me, not having to pay more if I decide to get on train last minute and get bumped to the highest bucket. I can see needing some kind of reservation on the train but a pass should get you on the train for no extra cost in my opinion.

Just my gripe against the use of the word pass by Amtrak.

Dan


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 28, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > How do AGR work with the pass?
> ...


So it saves you money but you get less points.

Oh well- I've always seen AGR as something akin to airline mile scams anyway- they aren't worth much long term... and the 'select' and 'select plus' are too hard to get to if you don't use the NEC frequently.

I move to NYC in January for school- it would be interesting to see if I can get 'select' next year between hops I'll be making on the NEC and trips to and from home. But that's a discussion for another board.

As for the rail pass- the new limits make sense for me- the old passes were too expensive and something I couldn't use. These new ones I could get into...


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## caravanman (Sep 28, 2008)

I think the original any train 30 day *peak* pass cost around $600.. I am not sure a new 30 day pass with severe restrictions on the number of trains and connections priced at $580 is in any way a plus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

I agree that it isn't really a "pass", and have raised this point in other posts.

I notice that both the regional and North American Rail Passes have vanished too from Amtraks site (Valid Canada and USA), but NARP is still on sale at Via (Canadian rail).

Ed B)

* allow a little error for £ to $ currency conversions please!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 28, 2008)

caravanman said:


> I think the original any train 30 day *peak* pass cost around $600.. I am not sure a new 30 day pass with severe restrictions on the number of trains and connections priced at $580 is in any way a plus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*I agree that it isn't realy a "pass", and have raised this point in other posts.
> 
> I notice that both the regional and North American Rail Passes have vanished too from Amtraks site (Valid Canada and USA), but is still on sale at Via (Canadian rail).
> 
> ...


Maybe they should have kept the original, but added the 15 day one too... The 15 day one is not a bad deal at all pending how you use it.


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## VentureForth (Sep 29, 2008)

I don't like it. Though the $749 version seems to be a better deal than the $999 - if you can cram everything into 18 segments....


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## VentureForth (Sep 29, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> I don't like the "$389 for 8 segments over 15 days" restriction! :angry:
> During my upcoming 15 day trip, I will be traveling LAX-SAC-SFC-PDX between Sunday morning and Monday afternoon. That's 1 1/2 days - and it will be 7 segments! So that means for the other 13 1/2 days, I would be limited to *1 segment*? :blink:


Of course you could do LAX to PDX as ONE segment. As for the way you wanna do it, that trip could be done for $153 without the pass.

So, despite my previous post, this new system could be doable. It's really geared to get folks on LD trains, not doing a lot of local on-offs. I'm gonna plan out a couple of maximum value trips...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 29, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> I don't like it. Though the $749 version seems to be a better deal than the $999 - if you can cram everything into 18 segments....


A full G for the rail pass didn't make it worth it unless you were using it pretty heavily.

The new passes will force people to play with their schedules (not necessarily a bad thing)... avoid the corridor services and stick to long hauls and you're sweet.


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## VentureForth (Sep 29, 2008)

OK - I priced out a trip from Savannah to Seattle to LA and back and it took 7 segments over 12 days. Regular price = $657. A savings of $269ish.


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## sky12065 (Sep 29, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> OK - I priced out a trip from Savannah to Seattle to LA and back and it took 7 segments over 12 days. Regular price = $657. A savings of $269ish.


I have never used a pass and between what information is available on the Amtrak website and what I've read on this forum, I don't seem to get a real understanding of how it works or what benefit it would give a person other than your mentioning the savings of $269ish.

One thing I seem to have picked up on is that the pass is more practical for the traveler that has flexible travel plans and can take advantage of any seating/sleeping accomodations and less practical for the traveler that has fixed travel plans and has specific needs like an accessible room!

Am I right on my thoughts about practability and can you or anybody else better explain the beni's better than Amtrak does! Amtrak's customer service had suggested a US Rail pass on my future trip, but it doesn't seem practical to me because of the advanced purchasing limitations. :huh:


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## ralfp (Sep 29, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> So it saves you money but you get less points.


If the price/segment is $48 (as per caravanman), then you're not losing many points if you use the pass only for tickets worth more than $48 (at most 4 points per segment or 18 per segment on the longest pass). No big deal.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Oh well- I've always seen AGR as something akin to airline mile scams anyway- they aren't worth much long term... and the 'select' and 'select plus' are too hard to get to if you don't use the NEC frequently.
> I move to NYC in January for school- it would be interesting to see if I can get 'select' next year between hops I'll be making on the NEC and trips to and from home.


As far as AGR itself, it's GREAT, as long as you don't use self-paid Amtrak travel to earn the points. The credit card or transfer from CO or SPG is the way to go. NEC trains are easily $0.03+/point, with long distance trains w/accommodation being even better deals. I've burned 66,000 points on NEC travel in the past few months. As long as the train ran and had coach seats available to buy, I always got the train I wanted (no cap restrictions and few blackout dates.) That would have cost me thousands of $.

Advice: Get the Amtrak MasterCard (or SPG Amex, or CO: 20,000 points for $85.). Use it everywhere. Pay for Amtrak with AGR points.


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## VentureForth (Sep 29, 2008)

sky12065 said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > OK - I priced out a trip from Savannah to Seattle to LA and back and it took 7 segments over 12 days. Regular price = $657. A savings of $269ish.
> ...


You gotta take sleeping accomodations out the picture completely. It wasn't a part of the North American or Foreign Visitors, and it isn't part of the USA Rail Pass.

It's just a matter of planning (which you've always had to do) and understanding the rules. If it doesn't save you money, go with the regular fare. It's really best for people who want to ride as much train as possible and spend as little as possible.

As I look through it, I'm sorta getting over my "it sucks" initial reaction.


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## wayman (Sep 29, 2008)

sky12065 said:


> I have never used a pass and between what information is available on the Amtrak website and what I've read on this forum, I don't seem to get a real understanding of how it works or what benefit it would give a person other than your mentioning the savings of $269ish.
> One thing I seem to have picked up on is that the pass is more practical for the traveler that has flexible travel plans and can take advantage of any seating/sleeping accomodations and less practical for the traveler that has fixed travel plans and has specific needs like an accessible room!
> 
> Am I right on my thoughts about practability and can you or anybody else better explain the beni's better than Amtrak does! Amtrak's customer service had suggested a US Rail pass on my future trip, but it doesn't seem practical to me because of the advanced purchasing limitations. :huh:


My guess (haven't looked at the prices at all) is that a pass is great for someone who wants to do a trip that involves lots of intermediate stops. I'm thinking something like CHI-PDX-EMY-CHI as a route. But whereas you'd say "ooh, I can go CHI-PDX-EMY as a single 20k AGR booking!", doing it as a "ride the train the whole way non-stop", with a pass you'd say "ooh, I can spend two days in Minneapolis and three days in Glacier National Park and a day in Spokane and a few days in Portland and three days in the Bay Area and maybe a day in Grand Junction and a couple days in Denver and a day in Kansas City!". That'd be nine legs right there. If your goal is to visit lots of cities and towns, taking the train between them instead of driving, the pass might be a very economical way of doing it (I'm guessing gas alone for that route is about the same cost as a pass; measuring driving costs by government mileage reimbursement rate which estimates depreciation and maintenance costs in addition to gas, and I bet that's about the same cost as three passes). And of course traveling by rail instead of car gains you the intangible value of "relaxing travel".


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## caravanman (Sep 29, 2008)

Hi,

It seems important to compare like for like.. the $999 price mentioned above was for a 30 day peak season pass for both Canada and the USA, which is a different animal altogether..

I have used the original Amtrak national rail pass, for overseas visitors, on several train adventures, both 15 day and 30 day. The rules were changed a year or so back.. at one time your pass would get you a reservation in coach on any train where there was a coach seat available. Then it changed to having to pay a supplement if the train you wanted only had higher bucket price seats left on general sale. The pass was thrown open to US citizens to buy also, about 6 months ago.

The restriction on the number of segments is a drawback, as the new pass is not much cheaper.

The main concern that I have with either pass is whether there will be enough "lowest bucket price" coach seats available on each train, or will the pass purchaser have to fork out extra each ride because the cheaper "rail pass" seats are sold out in advance, given that trains are increasingly full..

Ed B)


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## p&sr (Sep 29, 2008)

wayman said:


> My guess (haven't looked at the prices at all) is that a pass is great for someone who wants to do a trip that involves lots of intermediate stops. I'm thinking something like CHI-PDX-EMY-CHI as a route.


It all depends on the details. For your proposed itinerary with no stops en route, just three legs CHI-PDX-EMY-CHI, regular Amtrak fare would be $361 and AAA fare would be $325. Both much less than the cheapest pass at $389.

For your proposal with stopovers... Chicago, Minneapolis, Essex, Spokane, Portland, Emeryville, Grand Junction, Denver, and Chicago (omitting Kansas City which is not on the route), these 8 segments would take about three weeks (with your suggested stopovers). That could be covered with the 30-day pass for $579.

Total mileage 5416. At 30 mpg, that would take 180 gallons driving, at $4/gal costs $720, much more than the Pass.

As to "same cost as three passes", you are right again. Three passes would cost $0.32 per mile, and I'm sure the standard expense allowance for driving is more than that.

But the clincher is whether the Pass saves money over ordinary rail fare. It looks like the same itinerary could be reserved WITHOUT the Pass for $572, a savings of $7 against the Pass. And with AAA, $515 is substantially cheaper than the Pass.

As others have pointed out, the "Pass" is not really so much a "Pass" (such as they have in Europe, hop any train and just ride), rather a sort of limited discount program with restrictions. Any particular Trip needs to be compared with AND without the Pass before any meaningful conclusions can be drawn.


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## Sam31452 (Jan 11, 2009)

This new Railpass-System is pretty confusing for me.

As I plan to travel for seven weeks during June/July/August 2009 i am not sure if I might get a Seat on a certain day on a certain train. Especially on long distance trains such as the Empire Builder, the California Zephyr or the Southwest Chief.

Will most trains be sold out for Passholders already six months before the travelling date?

Does anybody know how to calculate a possible surcharge by using Amtraks Reservation System?

How do I calculate the surcharge for a Roomette?


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## Sam31452 (Feb 16, 2009)

Okay i found out:

There are no Surcharges of any kind for Travel in Coach.

But the Number of Seats for Passholders is limited, so if you reserv too late you will maybe have to buy a normal ticket.


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## Jay (Jun 18, 2011)

*Take Note - This is an old topic.*

--------------------------------------------------------------

So you have to travel in that limited time? Let's say I'm planing a trip from Denver - Salt lake - San Fran - Portland, and back. How can I do it in 15 days?


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## VentureForth (Jun 19, 2011)

Physically, you can do it. Depends on how much time you want to spend in each city. If you can't, you must go to the next price level for 30 days.

But I just checked the schedules, and you can make your trip and back with at least 24 hours in each city in 12 days and 6 segments (8 segments are allowed).

The biggest challenge is going to San Francisco as it is not a strip on your route. You well need to go to Emeryville then take a bus to San Fran which either isn't qualified on the pass or will take your last two available legs.

Compare it to pricing ala carte' and a pass may not be the best answer for you.


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## Paratrooper (Sep 26, 2011)

Here is the official definition from amtrak - What is a Travel Segment?

"

Amtrak considers a travel segment any time you get on and then get off a vehicle (train, bus, ferry or other allowable leg) regardless of length.

Example 1

Because we don't have a direct route from Washington, DC to Oklahoma, City, OK, you could ride the Capitol Limited train from Washington to Chicago (segment 1), then ride the Texas Eagle train from Chicago to Fort Worth (segment 2) and finally ride the Heartland Flyer train from Fort Worth to Oklahoma, City (segment 3). This journey from Washington to Oklahoma City would use three of your allowable segments.

Example 2

To travel from Spokane, WA to Portland OR, you could ride the Empire Builder train directly to Portland using one segment or you could ride the Empire Builder train to Seattle (segment 1) and then ride the Amtrak Cascades train from Seattle to Portland (segment 2). Both journeys take you to Portland but use a different number of your allowable segments.

Each segment booked counts toward the total number of segments permitted for the pass.

"

Does it mean, I should be able to take the longest segments available ? Washington to Chicago, Chicago to San Francisco, San Franciso to San Diego...so on ?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 26, 2011)

Long as you dont have to change Trains,or Thruway Vans/Busses youre good for a segment from the beginning of the Route to the end! (ie NYP-CHI/1 segment). Segment two would be CHI-EMY (Emeryville), then if you cross the Bay to SFO youd use two more segments on the Thruway Bus, EMY-SFO-EMY(3/4 Segments) then EMY-LAX would be another segment,(5) you would have to change Trains in LAX to a Surfliner to get to SAN, that would make 6 segments total if you followed this route!

The Longest segment that Amtrak has is LAX-SAS-CHI on the Sunset Ltd./Texas Eagle #422, 4 days/3 nights, with an overnight layover on the train in SAS. The Western Routes from CHI are all 2-3 day/2 night Routes, the Empire Builder CHI-SEA/PDX, the California Zephyr CHI-EMY and the Southwest Chief CHI-LAX!These are all 1 segment Routes!


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## Phoenixrisinh (Oct 15, 2012)

** * * * * * * * * YEAR OLD TOPIC * * * * * * * * * **

I don't understand this segment thing at all and there doesn't seem to be an "idiots" guide to plan the segments.

How do we go about doing it?

Was thinking New York- Savannah - Miami - New Orleans - Memphis - New York.


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## cirdan (Oct 15, 2012)

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't quite get these segments.

So I understand a segment is a train (or bus) ride that doesn't involve a change.

So I could catch the CZ from Chicago to Emeryville, and that would be one segment.

But catch the bus from Emeryville to SF, and that's another segment?

That doesn't seem quite proportionate to me.

Next point: Does having a pass entitle me to go to any station and board any train? How do I know there are available seats?

And what about upgrading to sleeper? How does that work.

I can't find an upgrade option on amtrak.com. Does that mean i would have to book through an agent?

Any help would be appreciated.


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## June the Coach Rider (Oct 15, 2012)

cirdan said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't quite get these segments.
> 
> So I understand a segment is a train (or bus) ride that doesn't involve a change.
> 
> ...




the definition per Amtrak for a segment is any on and off once on a route. For example, I am planning on going WOR-TOL-CHI-LAX-FTW-WOR This includes 6 seperate segments, WOR-TOL, TOL-CHI, CHI-LAX, LAX-FTW, FTW-CHI, CHI-WOR. this is the first section of my 45 day rail pass trip I am doing in April/May of next year.

You cannot just walk up and board the train, after you get your pass, you have to get a ticket that is attached to the pass. For me, I am getting my rail pass in January and will at that time, get as many of the actual tickets that I need to make sure there are pass seats available. If you want an upgrade, you would pay the current price for it anytime, either when you initially get your pass and tickets or before boarding.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 15, 2012)

So, yeah, a short shuttle like the bus into SFD is a segment.


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## p&sr (Oct 16, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> So, yeah, a short shuttle like the bus into SFD is a segment.


The answer, of course, is not to use the Pass for these short segments. Only use the Pass where it is worthwhile... unless you have extra segments left over after the main portions of the Trip have been scheduled. Just buy a separate (low-cost) ticket for these short segments.


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## cirdan (Oct 16, 2012)

p&sr said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > So, yeah, a short shuttle like the bus into SFD is a segment.
> ...


Can I actually buy a ticket for just that bus? I understood it could only be booked in conjunction with a rail trip?


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