# Complaint with Amtrak Conductor



## melsk (Sep 5, 2012)

I just returned from a trip from Oakland to Simi Valley Ca., My daughter and I were treated very poorly.

I am 72 years old and I have a hard time lifting my bag on the train I was met with a sharp response by the conductor,and then she made my daughter re-arrange the baggage to fit our bags into the baggage area. I spent close to 500.00 dollars for treatment like this.

This conductor spent a large amount of time talking to other passengers and not quietly. At one station I wasn't sure if I could smoke knowing full well that I had to be away from the train by so many feet, she snapped at me and made an extra point as to how far away I needed to be from the train, and proceeded to keep talking to these same passengers.

My daughters stop was the next stop in about an hour and a half, so we had lunch in the dining car and spent the rest of the time in our room not causing any trouble.

She also kept the upstairs bathroom locked next to her room which it wasn't easy having to make my way up and down the stairs. I asked if I could use that bathroom when we first got on the train she threw a temper tantrum and unlocked the door and then locked it again after I was done.

She only had one working bathroom for the whole car because she said she did not feel like unclogging the other toilet downstairs, and she refused to open the one upstairs next to her room. When we got to my daughters stop which is a quick stop she was no where to be found so I started to worry I rang the attendant bell down by the door, and she snapped at me when she came down the stairs, Saying when I say I am going to open the door I mean I am going to open the door.

I am not a mean person, I am pretty mild and nice but this women was very mean. I also have gotten food brought to my room and even offered this by other conductors, but when I made the request for dinner she said she did not have time and continued talking to other passengers. I had to plead with her to help take my bag off the train at my stop.

She also used foul language and talked down about her other co workers.


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## MrEd (Sep 5, 2012)

Sounds like a sleeping car attendant not conductor.

Perhaps call 1-800-USA-RAIL and provide them with the feedback.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 5, 2012)

It should be mentioned that this forum is not affiliated with Amtrak in any way.

We are a bunch of railfans who like talking about passenger trains.


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## amamba (Sep 5, 2012)

Please do call 1800 USA RAIL and ask to speak to customer relations. Please note that as mentioned by the other posters, the person who provided the poor service was actually the sleeping car attendant.


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## slimchipley (Sep 5, 2012)

Unfortunately this is far from an isolated incident. Discipline is almost non-existent and there is practically an infinte number of steps involved in a termination. The combination of shoddy equipment and surly staff has to be tough on repeat business... err passengers. Being treated like a guest or better yet, royalty would go a long ways toward covering up the poor state of the equipment and OTP.


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## yarrow (Sep 5, 2012)

do call customer relations. we have traveled amtrak a fair amount and have had wonderfully memorable sleeping car attendants, average sca's and a few , like yours, who detract from the enjoyment of the journey


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## Ryan (Sep 5, 2012)

slimchipley said:


> Unfortunately this is far from an isolated incident. Discipline is almost non-existent


Management can't fix problems that they don't know about.

Definitely contact Amtrak and make them aware of the problem. To ID the person, you should be able to tell them the date that you were on the train and the car number that you were in.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Sep 5, 2012)

melsk said:


> I am 72 years old and I have a hard time lifting my bag on the train I was met with a sharp response by the conductor,and then she made my daughter re-arrange the baggage to fit our bags into the baggage area. I spent close to 500.00 dollars for treatment like this.


OK, I'll pick the unpopular stance, and say that whether you are 72, or 22, you have to be able to carry your carry-on luggage. If you can't, then you really need to find alternatives. A "red cap", checking the bags, and in your case, having your daughter carry it for you right from the start.

The baggage area is "self serve". If it is already full, then you are out of luck. Or as the conductor said, you might need to move stuff around to see if you can free up enough space for your bags.

The conductor is not a luggage porter.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 5, 2012)

:hi: Sorry ya'lls trip was ruined by such a lazy, uncaring person! :angry2: As others have said,this person was a Sleeping Car attendant, not the Conductor! Please call Amtrak Customer Relations (1-800-USA_RAIL). when the Computer answers ("Julie"), aks for "Agent", when the Agent answers ask to be transfered to Customer Relations and as was said, let them know about this exception to most Amtrak Adventures! We all hope this person is either retrained or let go, plenty of folks looking for jobs and we all can do our part to help rectify this kind of anomaly! Hope your meal and the rest of the Trip sort of made up for this jerk! ^_^


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## Ryan (Sep 5, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> The conductor is not a luggage porter.


But a sleeping car attendant is, and that's who she was talking about.


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## leemell (Sep 5, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> melsk said:
> 
> 
> > I am 72 years old and I have a hard time lifting my bag on the train I was met with a sharp response by the conductor,and then she made my daughter re-arrange the baggage to fit our bags into the baggage area. I spent close to 500.00 dollars for treatment like this.
> ...


On the other hand a good manger cheerfully fills in on any of the jobs in their area and a conductor is also a manager. They should also solve any problems rather than just saying the customer shouldn't do this or that.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 5, 2012)

I hate it when people get treated this way. It really makes Amtrak look bad.

We really do feel for you. and we are sorry that the trip was that bad.

I hope that if you do choose to travel Amtrak again, that you will have a much better experience.

Anthony


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 5, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> OK, I'll pick the unpopular stance, and say that whether you are 72, or 22, you have to be able to carry your carry-on luggage. If you can't, then you really need to find alternatives. A "red cap", checking the bags, and in your case, having your daughter carry it for you right from the start. The baggage area is "self serve". If it is already full, then you are out of luck. Or as the conductor said, you might need to move stuff around to see if you can free up enough space for your bags. The conductor is not a luggage porter.


I can't wait to read your explanation for why the restrooms were locked. Please don't keep us waiting...



Amtrak Cajun said:


> I hate it when people get treated this way. It really makes Amtrak look bad.


Or maybe this is the real Amtrak and we just don't want to admit it?


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 5, 2012)

Sunset, I havent had any horrible experiences on my trips. The majority of the crews I have encountered have been great. A few bad apples can spoil the bunch.

The restroom shouldnt have been locked regardless, and there is no need to snap at people when they use the call button,

I think the term "real" is more perception than anything. Whats real to you may not be the case for someone else, myself included.

Ant


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Sep 5, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> I can't wait to read your explanation for why the restrooms were locked. Please don't keep us waiting...


Well, if you could actually read, you would have known that I was only commenting upon if the conductor is responsible to handle carry-on luggage, or not.

That's why I only quoted the paragraph pertaining to that.


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## Ryan (Sep 5, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Well, if you could actually read


Was that really necessary?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 5, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > I can't wait to read your explanation for why the restrooms were locked. Please don't keep us waiting...
> ...


So you're saying you agree the restrooms should have been unlocked and available?


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## Texan Eagle (Sep 5, 2012)

slimchipley said:


> Unfortunately this is far from an isolated incident.


True. I experienced both ends of the spectrum of Amtrak employees on a single trip last weekend on the Sunset Eagle (yeah that's what I like to call #422). From Tucson to San Antonio we had a very friendly sleeper car attendant who came by each room every couple hours to ask if we needed anything, kept the bathrooms clean, coffee and juice station well stocked and engaged in friendly chat if one wanted to. From San Antonio onwards, we had a _I-hate-my-job-and-I-will-make-it-obvious _SCA. He was nowhere to be seen at or after boarding, did not put the bed up while we were away for breakfast, we had to make our own coffee, the wet towels were thrown all over the shower with no attempt made to clean up the place. No prizes for guessing who out of the two got a good tip.

Same story in the Dining Car. The attendant who dealt with our breakfast and dinner was rude, banging the pen and cups on the table and yelling at people who do the blasphemous mistake of sitting opposite each other instead of side by side in a half empty Dining Car and never told us what options we had for dessert. During lunch we sat in the other half of the Diner and had a cheerful attendant who personally introduced himself to all guests, asked nicely what they'd like to eat and made some jokes too.

I was lucky that I got to see both sides of the coin but it is ridiculous that Amtrak allows such a huge disparity in customer service by its employees. If I only got to experience the surly ones, I'd think twice before booking a train ticket next time.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 5, 2012)

Texan Eagle said:


> slimchipley said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately this is far from an isolated incident.
> ...


Have you called customer service to tell them about the bad and the good? At times it might seem pointless, but it is important to let them know 'both ends of the spectrum.'


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 5, 2012)

Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.


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## MrFSS (Sep 5, 2012)

And this is probably one of those passengers who will never come back here to read all these responses.

How many times do we see this?


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 5, 2012)

MrFSS said:


> And this is probably one of those passengers who will never come back here to read all these responses.
> 
> How many times do we see this?


In the time I've been here, I've lost count. I wonder how many of them think they are complaining to Amtrak? (Even though, if one does even the slightest poking around, it is pretty clear IMHO that AU is not a part of Amtrak.)


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## George Harris (Sep 6, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> melsk said:
> 
> 
> > I am 72 years old and I have a hard time lifting my bag on the train I was met with a sharp response by the conductor,and then she made my daughter re-arrange the baggage to fit our bags into the baggage area. I spent close to 500.00 dollars for treatment like this.
> ...


Well, Mr. Cho Cho, when you are 72 and wobbly get on/off at a station without checked baggage, have trouble moving your stuff and the *ATTENDANT* won't help, call us and tell us that you still consider this stuff acceptable behavior. I have seen the conductor be helpful on more than one occasion. It should be normal for people that are employees of a company offering service to the public to be helpful. They should if they know which side their bread is buttered on.


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## guest--on the Pacific (Sep 6, 2012)

One or more of the moderators of this forum have said that Amtrak managers DO read this forum. Assuming this is correct, what do they think when they continually read about inconsistent service?? More importantly, do they act upon it? Does someone monitor the customer relations tallies and determine that there is indeed a problem with a given train, or a given SCA or DCA?

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the woman from Oakland to Simi Valley recounted. The vexing thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be anything systemic that Amtrak management has done about such inconsistent service. Only the most abject apologist for Amtrak would at this point deny that service is frighteningly inconsistent.

I don't mean firing each and every employee who can be identified; that isn't realistic.

But does anyone know if Amtrak has instituted changes in its training programs for SCAs and similar employees? Are there periodic meetings where SCAs for certain routes or regions get together and have general flaws pointed out in overall service (not individual targeting of persons)? Are customer relations complaints ever shared with employees in group meetings? Is everything (I shudder to think) done by memo with awful government-speak language?

Certain companies are outstanding in their consistency of service? It's not brain surgery! Why can't Amtrak management cull those things that work and strive to implement them? And if Amtrak management has attempted to do so, why have their efforts seemingly failed??


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## the_traveler (Sep 6, 2012)

I can't say for certain, but I'm almost sure that some actions have been taken. You may not hear about each and every one, but they may have happened.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 6, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I can't say for certain, but I'm almost sure that some actions have been taken. You may not hear about each and every one, but they may have happened.


I am sure there have been actions in individual cases that are reported to Amtrak (and not just here). However, with that said, I have been riding Amtrak from the beginning. The wildly varying levels of onboard service staff professionalism remains one of Amtrak's worst problems and one that just has not improved over the course of many years in my experience. The problem clearly transcends individual disciplinary incidents and goes to the processes and procedures by which they manage their onboard staff. It is clearly a _management_ problem.

There are a lot great people out there, but it just takes one bad one to ruin Amtrak's brand image ("...never again!"), and there is more than just one bad one.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 6, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> I can't say for certain, but I'm almost sure that some actions have been taken. You may not hear about each and every one, but they may have happened.


I keep seeing the same employees I've reported over and over again. The employees who vanish into their hideaways. The employees who bark orders at my unsuspecting friends and family. The employees who respond to cheerful requests with patronizing retorts. The employees who do their best to turn even the most minor incident (like leaving a towel on the floor of the bathroom) into a one-way shouting match. Every business has a few bad apples, but on Amtrak sometimes it seems like it's the friendly employees who are vastly outnumbered. I'm not sure why that is, but it certainly hasn't changed much in all the years I've been traveling with them.


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## nightrider (Sep 6, 2012)

guest--on the Pacific said:


> One or more of the moderators of this forum have said that Amtrak managers DO read this forum. Assuming this is correct, what do they think when they continually read about inconsistent service?? More importantly, do they act upon it? Does someone monitor the customer relations tallies and determine that there is indeed a problem with a given train, or a given SCA or DCA?
> 
> It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the woman from Oakland to Simi Valley recounted. The vexing thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be anything systemic that Amtrak management has done about such inconsistent service. Only the most abject apologist for Amtrak would at this point deny that service is frighteningly inconsistent.
> 
> ...


I think this observation is spot-on....

And also agree with the last two posts, as well. The problem seems to be a very deep ingrained company culture that is extremely difficult to eradicate short of rehiring the entire staff....

While the miscreants probably do know that they are working for the customer's fare, their attitude is that they are more on a government entitlement job and are immune from penalty for poor performance....


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 6, 2012)

Maybe Im just lucky, but Ive only met one employee *sunset limited #2 LFT-NOL* that was a bit gruff about lunch options. Although maybe Im lucky because Im outgoing, but I try to stay out of the way, enjoy the trip, and ask for as litttle as possible. Im pretty forgiving and can overlook certain things as well. *shrugs*

I see alot of these reports, dealing with the Texas Eagle, admittedly a train I havent ridden yet. Ive ridden the SL, CZ, CONO, *soon to ride the Crescent, LSL, and CONO again*, so I will let you all know how those trips go. All I can say is that I will report good and bad experiences to Amtrak and hope that things do change for the better, not just for me, but for the sake of all passengers as well.


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## VentureForth (Sep 6, 2012)

guest--on the Pacific said:


> One or more of the moderators of this forum have said that Amtrak managers DO read this forum. Assuming this is correct, what do they think when they continually read about inconsistent service?? More importantly, do they act upon it? Does someone monitor the customer relations tallies and determine that there is indeed a problem with a given train, or a given SCA or DCA?
> 
> It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the woman from Oakland to Simi Valley recounted. The vexing thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be anything systemic that Amtrak management has done about such inconsistent service. Only the most abject apologist for Amtrak would at this point deny that service is frighteningly inconsistent.
> 
> ...


It is imperative that all customer service based companies have annual or bi-annual customer service training. People get into a routine in their job, they see it all, over and over again, and forget about the individual whom they serve and the expectations they have - and deserve.

About 6 years ago, I was T-Boned by a guy who ran a stop sign. The only memory I have of the wreck is me calling my wife and trying to guide her to my location and calling my friend and telling him I wouldn't be able to trick or treat with them and our kids. I don't remember any cops. I couldn't identify the guy who hit me or his car in a line up to save my life. I don't remember the 6-block ambulance ride. Don't remember anything. But I was wide awake and cognizant. Cops didn't want to call an ambulance because they thought I was fine. When my wife arrived, she immediately recognized that I was in an incoherent loop, repeating phrases, forgetting my youngest son's name, etc. I bring all this up because the cops - the fine men and women who do a good job - clean up dead bodies regularly and really didn't care about me personally. I'm awake, I'm walking, I'm fine. They were rude to my wife because she knew different and they wouldn't listen. Job atrophy. I finally got my ride to the hospital where I got a cat scan, and it turned out all right. But I needed that visit to prove that I wasn't at fault (blood test for alcohol) for insurance to pay for subsequent physical therapy visits (my muscles were messed up pretty bad in my shoulder and neck).

But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit.

Then there are those who are super polite, absolutely wonderfully kind and pleasant to be around but can't do their job worth a lick. It's Amtrak Management's responsibility to not just weed out bad employees, but to ENSURE THAT THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE IN THE RIGHT JOBS. Even stoic employees who have huge responsibilities (ie: conductors) need to be able to interact with a plethora of personalities with dignity and respect. Same goes for the SCA, LSA, SA, CA and every other A on the train. Some folks can't be put in the right job. They don't need to be with Amtrak.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 6, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the
> 
> But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. *The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit. *
> 
> * *


I hope you don't mean ALL of the college kids (and I'm sure you don't).

My daughter interned at WDW in the Fall of 2009 (which is also when he dad died after a long period of ill health). I seriously doubt my daughter gave an attitude of "I don't care" even when she was depressed with her dad's passing.


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## slimchipley (Sep 6, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.


It is certainly true that Amtrak can't handle what is never reported, however, after many reports (both good and bad), I get the impression that Amtrak (customer relations) can't (or won't) handle what is reported. How are these do-nothings evaluated and by whom? It is a very sad situation. I enjoy riding trains, but in order to do so I have to set very low expectations of personnel, maintainence, cleanliness and timeliness when travelling Amtrak. Many new riders will simply find the experience intolerable. There are certainly some stellar employees and they are so good that they seem to be trying to make up for the do-nothings, but in a service oriented business a do-nothing is more likely to be remembered.


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## VentureForth (Sep 6, 2012)

AmtrakBlue said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the
> ...


Absolutely not. I just mean that attitude is found predominately amongst the part time, short time cast members. There are certainly many CP employees that LOVE the experience and some return full time.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 6, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > VentureForth said:
> ...


I didn't think you did. But some people might get that impression from the way you stated it. Unfortunately there are too many people "out there" who will lump everyone under generalizations.

My daughter would love to work for Disney some time in the future. It's just not feasible at the moment with her living in Utah and just starting a family.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 6, 2012)

VentureForth, Im sorry about your accident, and I hope you are ok.

I agree slimchipley that bad service is always more likely to get noticed first before good service will.

AmtrakBlue: I hope your daughter is doing well.

Now, hear me out on this one..or should I say read me out on this one 

I understand and accept the fact that yes, there are bad workers out there, and there are unclean train situations, but there is a flipside to that, where a person rides Amtrak, and expects the attendants to be at their beck and call *like they own the train*, and for the train to be spit shined clean 100% of the time, so on and so forth. What happens when they dont have either one? Then they go on an Amtrak sucks/this person sucked because they didnt dot the i's and cross the t's like i wanted them too" rant. How many of those reports are taken into account? There are people out there that will nitpick Amtrak into oblivion, and that is fine, but there is the flipside of the coin, where there are great experiences, and great workers, and that has been my experience with Amtrak.

Also, people are less likely to report good situations, even on forums, why? because they are happy, and they dont feel the need to shout it to the world, they are happy and will quietly continue to ride Amtrak. The negative experience and experiencers are going to be angry, and likely way more vocal than the happy people.

Example: how many of you surf vehicle forums? I do, and how many posts on said forum do you see where people are like OMG, I love X,Y,Z. and my vehicle is fine. A few, but people will post about vehicle problems, and OMG I hate X,Y,Z. and they will vocalize it many times over. So it makes that brand look bad, when to be honest, the majority are happy with the experience.

Now, admittedly, I may not have been in situations that some of you other members have been in, so Im just going off of my experiences with Amtrak. Im not trying to upset anyone with my above paragraphs, Im just trying to look at things from all sides. So forgive me if the above sounds harsh or naive even. Im trying to learn and understand like everyone else here. I will admit, If i rode Amtrak way more often, like some of you do, then yes, maybe Id see the "bad service" or the "bad attendants", but so far, I havent. Does the negative side of Amtrak make my positive view of it invalid? I hope not, because after the awesome service I experienced a couple of days ago when rebooking my trip, that just made me love Amtrak even more. I have to remember to call Customer Relations and give them a good word about Danielle in the Reaccomodation Center.

Sorry for the novel of a post too, I feel the need to explain things sometimes 

Ant


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## Ryan (Sep 6, 2012)

slimchipley said:


> Amtrak Cajun said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.
> ...


It is true that not every complaint is acted on as it should be.

However, we know for a fact that some of them are, so it is always best to give Amtrak the feedback as often as is necessary. If everyone encountering some of those "problem" employees actually complained about them, I'm certain that you'd see a marked improvement in customer service.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 6, 2012)

Ryan said:


> slimchipley said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak Cajun said:
> ...



This has been my experience as well. I do suspect that Amtrak takes a somewhat 'grain of salt' approach to complaints, as no one is going to please everyone 100% of the time. However, they will take action if they become convinced it is warrented.

Where exactly they set the bar, I can't say, and I'm not going to get into whether the bar is too high or too low, but to say it is pointless to call customer service is simply not true. Maybe your call will be the one to 'break the camel's back.' Either to take action against a bad employee, or to help a good employee get a good review, and that employee decides to stay working for Amtrak, when they were considering leaving.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 6, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Maybe Im just lucky, but Ive only met one employee *sunset limited #2 LFT-NOL* that was a bit gruff about lunch options. Although maybe Im lucky because Im outgoing, but I try to stay out of the way, enjoy the trip, and ask for as litttle as possible. Im pretty forgiving and can overlook certain things as well. *shrugs*
> 
> I see alot of these reports, dealing with the Texas Eagle, admittedly a train I havent ridden yet. Ive ridden the SL, CZ, CONO, *soon to ride the Crescent, LSL, and CONO again*, so I will let you all know how those trips go. All I can say is that I will report good and bad experiences to Amtrak and hope that things do change for the better, not just for me, but for the sake of all passengers as well.


You can't go by train, you can sort of see crew bases that seem to have more crew members with attitude (Chicago), but the individuals vary.

Over the course of riding Amtrak for 41 years, mostly on the Western LDs I have had bad service (sleeping car, dining car, or lounge) at various times on the Coast Starlight, the California Zephyr, the Empire Builder, the City of New Orleans, and the Silver Meteor that I can recall offhand. And I mean _bad_, just indifferent I ignore and basically forget. The very worst incidents were on the Coast Starlight, but that train also had some of better crews and that is by far the train I have ridden the most and so have more exposure and will see more good and bad than a train I ride very occasionally. I will say the best overall crews I have ever ridden with were the two times I rode the Sunset Limited. But that cannot be construed to mean the Starlight is "bad" and the Sunset is "good".

Overall, I would class the crew members I have ridden with as about 10-15% truly excellent, 25% good but not great, 30 or 40% adequate, and about 10% awful. A bell curve. But a service industry can't really afford a bell curve and a bell curve means the customer experience is going to be unpredictable.

This is not an insoluable problem. The railroads that cared about service really didn't have this problem (and with an equally unionized workforce, I will add). I simply cannot imagine some of these people working for Santa Fe, for example, and getting away with it. And I pre-Amtrak most of my train rides were on Santa Fe, with some on SP.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 6, 2012)

Yeah, I can shrug off the indifferent crew members.

Maybe part of it too is that all of my trips have been Coach, I just sorta accept Coach as it being what it is?

I depart tomorrow for my first trip via sleeper, so maybe thats when I will start noticing differences between crew members, and levels of service, then I can really compare how I was treated in Coach vs Sleeper. Maybe things will become easier to understand once I see what the difference is or can be. Right?

Im taking the Crescent to New York on Saturday morning, so thats either going to be a New Orleans based crew or a New York based crew. I hear that the New York based crew can be a bit.....ummm.indifferent maybe is the best word there. I had the New Orleans based crew on the CONO last year, and it was a fun experience, they were cordial and fun and just really laid back.

I know there are more factors involved, but I do understand what others are trying to get across too.

Ant


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## OBS (Sep 6, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Yeah, I can shrug off the indifferent crew members.
> 
> Maybe part of it too is that all of my trips have been Coach, I just sorta accept Coach as it being what it is?
> 
> ...


Ant, you will have a combination of crews. The dining car crew is NY based and the rest of the train is NOL based.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks OBS, I thought I had read that here on the forum a while back, but I couldnt remember quite where.


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## fulham (Sep 6, 2012)

I know the issue of inconsistent service has been discussed before, but it is a major issue that Amtrak has never been able to get a handle on. The roots of the problem, I believe, go back to Amtrak's founding and the attitude of the private railroads regarding passenger trains at the time. Some railroads still provided good service, but the largest one (Penn Central) did not. Also, when one looks at Amtrak's major hubs, (New York, Washington, Chicago) this was all prime Penn Central territory. One could argue that the Penn Central culture made its way into Amtrak and became so ingrained, that to this day, it still exists.

The other point is are these "bad apple" employees not paying attention to what is going on in Washington? Right now Amtrak is a piece of raw meat that the Republican "wolves" are just waiting to get at. If Romney gets elected there is a fairly good chance the gate will open and that will be it. The politicians who want to eliminate Amtrak cite its poor service as a reason to get rid of it. People who read this blog know that poor service exists, and it is very frustrating that Amtrak employees are playing right into the hands of the politicians (see John Mica) who want to eliminate the company and cause the loss of thousands of jobs and a national rail system.

I would really like to hear the opinions of any current and former Amtrak employees who follow this blog regarding this situation.


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## OBS (Sep 7, 2012)

fulham said:


> I know the issue of inconsistent service has been discussed before, but it is a major issue that Amtrak has never been able to get a handle on. The roots of the problem, I believe, go back to Amtrak's founding and the attitude of the private railroads regarding passenger trains at the time. Some railroads still provided good service, but the largest one (Penn Central) did not. Also, when one looks at Amtrak's major hubs, (New York, Washington, Chicago) this was all prime Penn Central territory. One could argue that the Penn Central culture made its way into Amtrak and became so ingrained, that to this day, it still exists.
> 
> The other point is are these "bad apple" employees not paying attention to what is going on in Washington? Right now Amtrak is a piece of raw meat that the Republican "wolves" are just waiting to get at. If Romney gets elected there is a fairly good chance the gate will open and that will be it. The politicians who want to eliminate Amtrak cite its poor service as a reason to get rid of it. People who read this blog know that poor service exists, and it is very frustrating that Amtrak employees are playing right into the hands of the politicians (see John Mica) who want to eliminate the company and cause the loss of thousands of jobs and a national rail system.
> 
> I would really like to hear the opinions of any current and former Amtrak employees who follow this blog regarding this situation.


A couple comments...The OBS unions have gone out of their way to emphasize to employees the seriousness of the election, as well as the best way to protect your job (do it correctly). Unfortunately, the worst performers are also the employees who either don't care or don't think it will affect them (head in the sand).

In regards to the PC culture, when I hired on (1980's) there were many still around from PC and other RR's but most of those still carried the polish and professionalism that the RR's were known for. Over the years, Amtrak's hiring judgement has gone from good to outrageous and back again (IMHO). But in last 5 years or so i have observed a greater focus on hiring/training/weeding out during probation period, as well as greater emphasis on improving/terminating problem employees.

Are things perfect? Obviously not. But in terms of overall quality, the needle is slowly edging in the right direction...again MHO.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 7, 2012)

I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.

Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.

Ant


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.
> 
> Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.
> 
> Ant


Yeah, well, I generally like riding Amtrak, but - what do SCA'S do? - put out a juice thing in the morning - make a pot of coffee. Hide away until you can find them after nightfall, and when you finally find the person they stomp on a foot-lever and throw your bedding on the bed. Which you could do yourself whenever you want to. For this I should give a generous tip? I just don't get it - having an employee to supervise and watch for terrorists and keep control of the various train spaces -- maybe - probably -- . Maybe throw some towels from the platform to the shower room.

I try to be considerate of the SCA'S -- BUT REALLY, what are they there for? Not to give service - just to be there? Anybody can stomp on the lever and lower the bed for themselves. Maybe one SCA per train, to help the noobs? not one per car?

I could clean the toilet myself, like they do on Navy ships - it would be as clean - heh.

What are Sleeping Car Attendants supposed to do? For me they are just there - no help, no use, wish they didn't demand to lower the berth because I can do it myself, thanks.

No wonder they get grumpy - anyone useless gets grumpy after a while.

l let them arrange the bunk, not because I need it, because they are peones - you must pay them - a tiny bit - which is what they are paid.

It's a total throwback to the ages of slavery and serfdom and peones.

Of course they get grumpy after a while -- I just ignore em.

In the Dining car - the staff always delivers the meal - tip accordingy.

In the Sleeping car - the SCA is mostly irrelevent, knows it, what can a passenger do?


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 7, 2012)

Well, Im about to take my first ever sleeper trip, so I cant answer that one for you.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Well, Im about to take my first ever sleeper trip, so I cant answer that one for you.


Good for you - hope you enjoy your trip.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 7, 2012)

Ill make a nice trip report when I get back 

By the way, I hope my response didnt sound sarcastic, if it did, it wasnt meant to be.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> Amtrak Cajun said:
> 
> 
> > I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.
> ...


REALLY? :unsure:

I've done a lot of LD sleeper travel in the last couple of years and I have to disagree. SCAs do a heck of a lot and IMHO put up with some pretty bad pax. I've had some bad SCAs, but the majority have been quite good.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Ill make a nice trip report when I get back
> 
> By the way, I hope my response didnt sound sarcastic, if it did, it wasnt meant to be.


Not at all, I think my own post was much more offensive to some, but take your trip, enjoy it - travelling Amtrak is usually real good.

When you've tried it - you'll probably like it - talk to your SCA if they are willing.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

The Davy Crockett said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak Cajun said:
> ...


In my recent experience SCA's do very little. They surely DO deal with many bad pax from time to time. But for good pax there's not much for them to do. - like I said, open the juice box, start the coffee, relay the reservations to the diner.

Maybe clear the wet towels from the shower, sometimes clean the restrooms once per day. Or not. Spend 5 minutes per room "arranging the beds" when only a few impaired persons need help with that.

That's all.


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## Ryan (Sep 7, 2012)

You've only scratched the surface of what a sleeping car attendant is supposed to be doing.

Read the Service Standards manual and you'll have a much better idea of what you should expect:

http://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf

Pages 6-80 through 6-93 identify the duties of the Train Attendant-Sleeping Car.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Ryan said:


> You've only scratched the surface of what a sleeping car attendant is supposed to be doing.
> 
> Read the Service Standards manual and you'll have a much better idea of what you should expect:
> 
> ...


Oi - just started reading it - it sound like the Operating Rules but so dumbed down - at least most of the Rules for the Engineers have *some *usefulness -- and might be adhered to

all these quotes -- thanks for the joke -

' "Coffee service is to made available throughout the day" -- *Never ever seen that - *maybe for an hour in the morning which I always miss -

"provide the employee location" - who you kidding --

this is a joke -- yes?

Announce station stops -- yeah that usually happens

• When an en route delay occurs, passengers are to be notified immediately. If the Conductor does not make an announcement or the announcements are too infrequent, it is the TASC responsibility to keep passengers informed. hboy:

• Late boarding passengers will be allowed to board at any opening and then escorted to their car. 

The TASC is to make a PA announcement welcoming everyone to the train and Amtrak.

Include your name, and advise the passengers that you will be personally contacting each passenger.

Include general information related to smoking policies, moving safely throughout the train and a recommendation to review the emergency evacuation card.

"Call button" is there such a thing? Never ever worked for me, ever - where is it --

But yes - you were joking of course --

"Answer Call bells promptly" -- hey I never had a clue those would work, and where are they anyway? Assumed it would be like on airplanes - "call button?" of course it won't work.

'

Whee- oh -- wiping tears from my eyes -

TOTALLY AMUSING - I really like science fiction and fantasy -- oh man -- thanks for that --

Actually the in-room toilets are usually clean -

So some of this specification usually gets done, some never gets done -

Amusing.

Thanks for the very good reference -- might try to use it some time. The important stuff gets done - mainly - most of the rest never happens -- OK.


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## Ryan (Sep 7, 2012)

No, I wasn't joking.



NW cannonball said:


> "Call button" is there such a thing? Never ever worked for me, ever - where is it --


And lines like this make it impossible to take you seriously. Obviously the call button won't work of you never try to use it.


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## VentureForth (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.
> 
> Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.
> 
> Ant


That's right! It's only been 41 years. They are trying so hard and it's going to take time.

If MANAGEMENT would start by ESTABLISHING consistent service REQUIREMENTS on each train (particularly Business Class expectations), THEN they can start working on the employees.

I hope to see real progress by 2053.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Ryan said:


> No, I wasn't joking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have tried to use it - on the EB, Lakeshore, and Silver Star - it was a null button. Every time. Out of 6 trips on the EB one on the LSL one on the Star. Never tried it on other trains I've been on like the CL because it never ever worked for me. Ever. Is it supposed to alert the SCA that you want some help or info? Is that what it is for? or for what? Never done anything for me on any train I've been on. Last 3 trips (Nov 2011-Aug-2012) I've pressed it again, just for a joke -- really really tell me that this button is supposed to do anything and if so, what?

After the first 3 or 4 times it proves to be not connected - who's ever going to try it again?

I have always assumed, based on my personal experience, that that is one of the many buttons that don't work. And gave up on it, and don't care.

[Edit] suppose we should really define what this button is and where maybe I was pushing the wrong one all along.


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## daveyb99 (Sep 7, 2012)

jimhudson said:


> :hi: Sorry ya'lls trip was ruined by such a lazy, uncaring person! :angry2: As others have said,this person was a Sleeping Car attendant, not the Conductor! Please call Amtrak Customer Relations (1-800-USA_RAIL). when the Computer answers ("Julie"), aks for "Agent", when the Agent answers ask to be transfered to Customer Relations and as was said, let them know about this exception to most Amtrak Adventures! We all hope this person is either retrained or let go, plenty of folks looking for jobs and we all can do our part to help rectify this kind of anomaly! Hope your meal and the rest of the Trip sort of made up for this jerk! ^_^


WOW -- talk about jumping to a conclusion.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> I have tried to use it - on the EB, Lakeshore, and Silver Star - it was a null button. Every time. Out of 6 trips on the EB one on the LSL one on the Star. Never tried it on other trains I've been on like the CL because it never ever worked for me. Ever. Is it supposed to alert the SCA that you want some help or info? Is that what it is for? or for what? Never done anything for me on any train I've been on. Last 3 trips (Nov 2011-Aug-2012) I've pressed it again, just for a joke -- really really tell me that this button is supposed to do anything and if so, what? After the first 3 or 4 times it proves to be not connected - who's ever going to try it again? I have always assumed, based on my personal experience, that that is one of the many buttons that don't work. And gave up on it, and don't care. Suppose we should really define what this button is and where maybe I was pushing the wrong one all along.


I think you have to leave the call button depressed so the SCA can see which room it's coming from when they wake up from their nap or return from hanging out in the diner or wherever they went. Otherwise they won't know the button was pressed and wont know which room it came from. The funny thing about the call button is that the only time it's actually necessary is when the SCA isn't doing their job in the first place. In which case they'll probably just ignore the call request as well, assuming they ever noticed it to begin with.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried to use it - on the EB, Lakeshore, and Silver Star - it was a null button. Every time. Out of 6 trips on the EB one on the LSL one on the Star. Never tried it on other trains I've been on like the CL because it never ever worked for me. Ever. Is it supposed to alert the SCA that you want some help or info? Is that what it is for? or for what? Never done anything for me on any train I've been on. Last 3 trips (Nov 2011-Aug-2012) I've pressed it again, just for a joke -- really really tell me that this button is supposed to do anything and if so, what? After the first 3 or 4 times it proves to be not connected - who's ever going to try it again? I have always assumed, based on my personal experience, that that is one of the many buttons that don't work. And gave up on it, and don't care. Suppose we should really define what this button is and where maybe I was pushing the wrong one all along.
> ...


Yeah -- I'm not even sure that I know what this "Call button" actually is - there were a few buttons in my roomette - some worked the lights - but "call button" - SCA "familiarizing me" with the "Call button" never has happened in the last 30 years for me.

I totally deny the existence of an so-called "call button" on any amtrak train and I challenge you, Ryan, or anyone else to demonstrate that such a thing even exists. Or, if there is such a thing, to describe it, and say what it might do, or not do, and how to find it and use it, *if it exists, and if it has any function whatsoever *, or alternatively, to testify that anyone, ever, anywhere, has used such a putative button for any purpose whatsoever, ever. Testimony from passengers, SCAs anyone. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "call button", don't have a clue what it would do if it did exist, never seen a working one in the last 40 years of riding Amtrak. A so-called "call button" is a total fiction.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm pretty sure there ain't no such thing.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> The funny thing about the call button is that the only time it's actually necessary is when the SCA isn't doing their job in the first place. In which case they'll probably just ignore the call request as well, assuming they ever noticed it to begin with.


What do you expect a SCA to do? :unsure: Pace up and down the hallway the entire run? 

My experience is that the SCA is often either doing something work related, which includes chatting with their pax, or they are in their room when the call button goes off. I've seen some pax use the call button for almost every little thing - which is fine to a point - depending on the circumstances. I've seen some pax who can't even be bothered to look down the hall before hitting the call button. Should a requirement for a SCA be mindreader, as well? Many first time riders take a while to sort things out and I've seen many a SCA patiently help them, as well as the elderly, those with children, or other needs, get settled and comfortable. Not all, SCAs, to be sure, but a very clear majority. Then there are the SCAs that go above and beyond the call of duty, and maybe I'm just lucky, (or maybe I make my own luck  ) but I've had more than a few top notch SCAs.


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## Ryan (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> I have tried to use it - on the EB, Lakeshore, and Silver Star - it was a null button. Every time. Out of 6 trips on the EB one on the LSL one on the Star. Never tried it on other trains I've been on like the CL because it never ever worked for me. Ever.





NW cannonball said:


> Yeah -- I'm not even sure that I know what this "Call button" actually is - there were a few buttons in my roomette - some worked the lights - but "call button" - SCA "familiarizing me" with the "Call button" never has happened in the last 30 years for me.
> 
> I totally deny the existence of an so-called "call button" on any amtrak train and I challenge you, Ryan, or anyone else to demonstrate that such a thing even exists.


So which is it? Does it not exist, or have you tried to use it and not had any success? The two statements are mutually exclusive.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 7, 2012)

All you have to do is look on the Control Panel in your Room and there IS a Button marked "Call ", its been there on every Room Ive ever been in and when used it makes a Pinging Noise that you can Hear as well as turning on a Light in the Hall by your Room and the Control Panel in the SCAs Room !(#1 on a Superliner, last Room on a Viewliner)There are also Call Buttons in the Restrooms, check it out! (It's also Easy to use this button by Mistake, especially in the Dark, so you can turn it off if you use it by mistake!) Trust us, it's there in Every Sleeper! (although not all SCAs respond for various Reasons, some even Legitimate!! <_< )


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

Ryan said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried to use it - on the EB, Lakeshore, and Silver Star - it was a null button. Every time. Out of 6 trips on the EB one on the LSL one on the Star. Never tried it on other trains I've been on like the CL because it never ever worked for me. Ever.
> ...


If it exists - I've tried it with no success. Many many times - gave up on the thing. If I'm a moron, I got the wrong button. Do you think it exists? What does it look like - assuming you think it exists. I don't know if the thing I foolishly thought was a "Call button" was what it pretended to be or not.

So maybe I'm a fool, and thought the "call button" existed. I could have been delusional. Happens. No button in my roomette ever got the attention of the SCA on the 6 EB, LS, Silver rides that I mentioned. Ever.

If you think there is such a "call button" - tell me what it looks like. If you've ever ridden in a roomette on Amtrak. Just tell me what it looks like.

Then tell me, if you can, if you have ever operated it, how, when, and what happened. The button that seemed to me to be a "call button" did nothing at all - 6 trips on the Eb, one on the LSL, one on the Silver - that's what I've experienced.

So I've given up on using a worthless button. "Call button" - what is that supposed to mean? To me it means, as I said, button that does nothing.

\

Is that so hard to understand? On AMTRAK - "Call button" means -- button that does nothing. That's my experience. Not a problem, really - what should a "call button" do? I don't know and I don't care.

If you think there is such a button, describe it and tell us what might happen if you press it. That's all we want, a simple description of this button and what happens if anyone presses it.

I insist there's no such thing.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

So let me say it again in a different way. Is there supposed to be a "Call button" in Amtrak sleeping cars that alerts the SCA who will then come to the compartment where this imaginary "Call button" was pressed?

If there is, what does it look like? I ask you again - what does this "Call button" look like? Does anyone know?

I have pressed buttons that seemed to be such on my last 8 Amtrak trips - no effect within an hour.

So either I've been pressing the wrong button - and I would appreciate any help on finding a button that called the SCA - or else the button is broken. Or else --

But please - don't give me logical nonsense that I don't know what I've experienced. OK?


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## Ryan (Sep 7, 2012)

Jim already described it perfectly.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

OK - seems that my sleeping rooms had this thing, and either it didn't work, or --

TURNS ONLIGHT IN THE HALL --

never worked, or I didn't care enough to follow through.

DUH.

Or maybe the SCA's never wanted to deal with me - I'm paranoid after all hboy:

Never asked for much.

Thanks


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## rile42 (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> So let me say it again in a different way. Is there supposed to be a "Call button" in Amtrak sleeping cars that alerts the SCA who will then come to the compartment where this imaginary "Call button" was pressed?
> 
> If there is, what does it look like? I ask you again - what does this "Call button" look like? Does anyone know?
> 
> ...


I'll add one more thing to JimHudson's post, which was dead on correct. The button is very easy to find.....it's a different COLOR than the rest. It is amazing to me that not one of them, out of, as you claim, eight trips, ever worked. I very rarely use them, but have never had one not cause the ding nor not light the number outside my room.

Somehow, I detect a tinge of sarcasm.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 7, 2012)

rile42 said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > So let me say it again in a different way. Is there supposed to be a "Call button" in Amtrak sleeping cars that alerts the SCA who will then come to the compartment where this imaginary "Call button" was pressed?
> ...


Really - they work most of the time? News to me -

Amazing - didn't ever have one work on eight trips - just gave up on the things..

So much for anecdotal evidence - I'm obviously a case that was an outlier - and if you all hadn't responded (and thanks for responding!) I would have kept on believing that the damn things never worked and never would.

I can see it was hard for some to believe what happened to me on this totally minor issue - glad I confronted the web and AU - and glad you all gave me the straight dope.

Thanks to all .


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## rile42 (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> rile42 said:
> 
> 
> > NW cannonball said:
> ...


Too bad this topic hadn't come up 9 years ago or more when I was finishing my career as a high school math teacher. I could have used it as a very good example of "outliers" in my statistics unit. Of course, I doubt many of my students, if any, would have known about Amtrak.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> rile42 said:
> 
> 
> > NW cannonball said:
> ...


I've never had one not work. There have been times when the attendant didn't respond at all. I my experience most of the time they do respond, but it is not always, or even usually immediate. They may not be in the car, or busy with something else. But most of the the time they do respond within a 20 minutes or so.

But most of my trips have been on Superliners and mostly those buttons are straightforward switches. The touch panel in Viewliners may be more prone to failure and I've only ridden Viewliners 3 times and those times were back in the 90s when the cars were newer.


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## jis (Sep 7, 2012)

I believe (and I am sure Alan will correct me if I am wrong) the call buttons in many Viewliners do not work because the requisite circuitry was somehow mixed up with that of the entertainment system, and when the entertainment systems got pulled the call button functionality went with them. Perhaps the functionality has been reinstated in some recent refurbs, but there are still many on which the call button does not work.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2012)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > The funny thing about the call button is that the only time it's actually necessary is when the SCA isn't doing their job in the first place. In which case they'll probably just ignore the call request as well, assuming they ever noticed it to begin with.
> ...


I expect the following services from the SCA.

1. Put my bed up/down.

2. Keep the drinks and ice stocked.

3. Keep the temperature reasonable.

4. Keep the restrooms clean and open.

5. Keep strangers from rummaging around for swag.

That's it.

If they can't do those things then I'll press the call button. But it's kind of rare that the SCA who can't find time to do these things can find the time to respond to the call button. So, after a half hour or so I'll give up and turn the call button off. If the bed is broken or the HVAC is inoperative or whatever then obviously I will not hold those things against them so long as they at least attempted to resolve the issue.



The Davy Crockett said:


> My experience is that the SCA is often either doing something work related, which includes chatting with their pax, or they are in their room when the call button goes off. I've seen some pax use the call button for almost every little thing - which is fine to a point - depending on the circumstances. I've seen some pax who can't even be bothered to look down the hall before hitting the call button. Should a requirement for a SCA be mindreader, as well? Many first time riders take a while to sort things out and I've seen many a SCA patiently help them, as well as the elderly, those with children, or other needs, get settled and comfortable. Not all, SCAs, to be sure, but a very clear majority. Then there are the SCAs that go above and beyond the call of duty, and maybe I'm just lucky, (or maybe I make my own luck  ) but I've had more than a few top notch SCAs.


I am not new to Amtrak. I am not elderly. I am not traveling with children. I have no specific needs beyond the five expectations I've already mentioned. I can get settled and comfortable without any assistance. I should be among the easiest guests to keep happy. And several SCA's have managed to do just that. I often find myself leaving something on the order of twenty dollars per day, which I am led to believe is a rather healthy tip for someone who requests no meals to be delivered and does not require any help with their single carry-on sized luggage. Unfortunately there are still plenty of SCA's who can't be bothered to provide the level of assistance I outlined above. Some SCA's say they'll be happy to oblige any request to your face and then simply never lift a finger. Others may get defensive or even angry the moment you ask anything of them. You can withhold your tips. You can report these people. But if you ride often enough you will see them again and again year after year until they retire. That is my experience anyway.


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## oregon pioneer (Sep 7, 2012)

I don't know about the SCAs (you see them over a period of time, so if they are consistently surly, it may just be the way they are), but maybe the dining car attendant was having a horrible hour or day. If you are up to it (it can be tough sometimes), you can try expressing sympathy about how tough it can be, and see if that brightens up their day, and that of everyone else who comes in contact with them! Life can be tough sometimes, and everyone can benefit from a boost (especially you and your fellow passengers, if it makes them nicer!).


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## TimePeace (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.
> 
> Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.
> 
> Ant


Yes.


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## TimePeace (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > Texas Sunset said:
> ...


The five items on your list are most reasonable. Not at all too much to expect, or at least hope for.

I also agree about the tipping. I am pretty self-tending - so if I don't get the service I am glad to save the $10-15/night that I tip a good SCA. I travel on a tight budget, and when I am able to afford a sleeper I am likely stretching the budget. So yeah, I roll with the poor service and figure I am getting a break. And if the service is good, I am happy too. What do we call that, win-win? With either outcome, my blood pressure stays nice and steady.

Happy trails (or is that happy tracks).


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> But if you ride often enough you will see them again and again year after year until they retire. That is my experience anyway.


Very true. And they remember who they see too. Like good tippers and bad tippers. Pax they like. And pax they don't.


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## AlanB (Sep 7, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> So let me say it again in a different way. Is there supposed to be a "Call button" in Amtrak sleeping cars that alerts the SCA who will then come to the compartment where this imaginary "Call button" was pressed?
> 
> If there is, what does it look like? I ask you again - what does this "Call button" look like? Does anyone know?
> 
> ...


You've either been pressing the wrong button or I don't know. But on a Superliner it's pretty easy to know if the button is working. Heck, unless one is wearing headphones, the whole car knows when you've pushed it, as one can hear the chime altering the attendant that the button has indeed been pushed.

Now whether or not the attendant actually responds is another question; although in my extensive experience, most do. Some more enthusiastically than others, but most do. I've even had attendants tell me to push the button in the morning when I go to breakfast so that they can do one of those things that you don't seem to think they do, make up the beds and change the linens.

Finally, as noted by Jishnu, there have been issues with the buttons working in the Viewliner cars, but that is slowly being fixed.

By the way, on a Superliner, it's a yellow round button that you push in. To reset the call bell, one pulls out the button.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2012)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > But if you ride often enough you will see them again and again year after year until they retire. That is my experience anyway.
> ...


So I can't expect good service in the future because I didn't tip well enough for bad service in the past? That's good to know. Ironically, much of the bad behavior I witness by the staff is not actually directed toward me personally. More often than not it's directed toward passengers who are new to the Amtrak experience and don't know how to avoid the irritation and admonition of the less tolerant staff. Not to mention that even if I were willing and able to tip everyone handsomely it still wouldn't fix every problem. For instance, try tipping your way past a curmudgeonly conductor who refuses to sell you an empty bedroom. Ain't gonna happen.


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## inspiration100 (Sep 7, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Yeah, I can shrug off the indifferent crew members.
> 
> Maybe part of it too is that all of my trips have been Coach, I just sorta accept Coach as it being what it is?
> 
> ...


I'll be on the crescent as well on Sat w/ my mom. Stop by and say hello, we'll board in Atlanta.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> For instance, try tipping your way past a curmudgeonly conductor who refuses to sell you an empty bedroom. Ain't gonna happen.


Conductors? I thought SCAs were the topic. :unsure:


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2012)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > For instance, try tipping your way past a curmudgeonly conductor who refuses to sell you an empty bedroom. Ain't gonna happen.
> ...


You seem to have missed the rest of my post. Here you go...



Texas Sunset said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > Texas Sunset said:
> ...


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 7, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> *So I can't expect good service in the future because I didn't tip well enough for bad service in the past?* That's good to know.


 Tipping really is only a piece of this. Want good repeat service? Be nice to the help. That applies everywhere. Does it ensure good service? No. But it sure increases the odds.


> Ironically, much of the bad behavior I witness by the staff is not actually directed toward me personally. More often than not it's directed toward passengers who are new to the Amtrak experience and don't know how to avoid the irritation and admonition of the less tolerant staff.


That is not what you seem to imply when you talk about repeat service.


> Not to mention that even if I were willing and able to tip everyone handsomely it still wouldn't fix every problem.


See my first answer in this post.


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## Nathanael (Sep 7, 2012)

I have seen very inconsistent service as well. I've seen some consistently *really* good coach and sleeper attendants (they got good tips) and diner car crews, lots of "average", and personally I've never seen "really bad" except once -- placing Syracuse-bound passengers in an Amfleet I at Chicago when there are Amfleet IIs available is unacceptable. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure he realized where Syracuse was (i.e. that we wouldn't be getting off until noon).

In stations, I've seen lots of good, some average, and some atrocious -- the worst were the Red Caps at LA who failed to respond for a full hour to a call to assist a disabled passenger.

I'm not sure how Amtrak can increase consistency. If I were to make any generalizations, I'd say that the really old hands are mostly excellent; the really young hands are, if not necessarily skilled, mostly really eager beavers who are trying hard; and there's much less reliability in the middle age brackets. Something to do with the history of Amtrak's hiring, perhaps?

-- Regarding call buttons:

The Viewliner call buttons *have never worked*. They *are not connected*. The attendants therefore do not point them out. Apparently there is a project to retrofit Viewliners to make the call buttons work.

The Superliner call buttons do work and the attendants do point them out. Though I have had trouble calling the attendant with the call button -- usually they turned out to be eating dinner or lunch or breakfast.

The *absolute best* sleeper attendants *told* me what times they'd be going to meals and to bed, so that I knew to get them before those times. This made life easier for both of us.

The fact that this is not standard practice is, well, another sign that Amtrak doesn't have a good, consistent training program for sleeper attendants.


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## AlanB (Sep 7, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> The Viewliner call buttons *have never worked*. They *are not connected*. The attendants therefore do not point them out. Apparently there is a project to retrofit Viewliners to make the call buttons work.


Absolutely NOT true!

They've not worked properly since the TV screens were removed, due to the intertwining of the PA, call buttons, and the TV's when originally installed. But I can assure you that they worked prior to the removal of the TV screens. Since the removal, it's hit or miss, but again as cars cycle through for their annual checks and minor refurbishments, they seem to be fixing the issues that caused the PA & call buttons to stop working after the removal of the TV's.


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## rusty spike (Sep 7, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> That's right! It's only been 41 years. They are trying so hard and it's going to take time.
> 
> If MANAGEMENT would start by ESTABLISHING consistent service REQUIREMENTS on each train (particularly Business Class expectations), THEN they can start working on the employees.
> 
> I hope to see real progress by 2053.


In the world of private enterprise, be it a large department store chain, a restaruant, a fast-food outlet, "mystery shoppers" continually monitor the establishment's adherance to Standard Operating Procedures. It shouldn't take any company 41 years to get it right--even a government-run, taxpayer-subsized entitiy like Amtrak. But this forum would be far less entertaining if it weren't for the problems one encounters in doing business with Amtrak--from on-time perofrmance to customer service.


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## Nathanael (Sep 8, 2012)

AlanB said:


> again as cars cycle through for their annual checks and minor refurbishments, they seem to be fixing the issues that caused the PA & call buttons to stop working after the removal of the TV's.


I'll be unhappy when the PAs start working.

On the western trains, there is WAY TOO MUCH CHATTER on the PA system. On the eastern trains, the Viewliners are nice and quiet.


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## Ryan (Sep 8, 2012)

Than just turn your speaker off. Some people need/want the announcements.


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## me_little_me (Sep 8, 2012)

rusty spike said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > That's right! It's only been 41 years. They are trying so hard and it's going to take time.
> ...


Back in the '60s, I knew a guy that worked for a major oil company whose job it was to go to gas stations and ask for a fillup while evaluating the restroom cleanliness, whether the attendant greeted him properly, checked the oil, cleaned the windshield, etc.Of course, that stuff doesn'r exist any more. He would write up an evaluation, push a button that pumped 5 gallons or so from his tank to a hidden supplementary tank then go on to the next station.

Back in the early '80s when traveling on Amtrak on the SWC, I remember being told that Santa Fe refused to allow Amtrak to use the old Santa Fe names for the trains name because Santa Fe's "hidden" train checkers' evaluations of Amtrak's service on the route showed that the service level would be insulting to the reputation of the trains if Amtrak used the names.

I'd volunteer to take a number of trips every year at Amtrak's expense but without salary and perform/report evaluations of service levels. :giggle:


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## calwatch (Sep 9, 2012)

You can sign up with these various mystery shopping companies and get invites to various mystery shopping jobs, although you may only get paid $5 or $10 above the cost of the meal or activity.

Amtrak's method of rating customer service is through CSI scores (Customer Satisfaction Index) and they do have lots of categories that they ask questions in. On the corridor trains, they always do high, but I have not seen CSI scores for the long distance trains nor the categories that they use.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 9, 2012)

calwatch said:


> You can sign up with these various mystery shopping companies and get invites to various mystery shopping jobs, although you may only get paid $5 or $10 above the cost of the meal or activity.
> 
> Amtrak's method of rating customer service is through CSI scores (Customer Satisfaction Index) and they do have lots of categories that they ask questions in. On the corridor trains, they always do high, but I have not seen CSI scores for the long distance trains nor the categories that they use.


I just got a "Customer Satisfaction Survey" for a recent trip on Amtrak. I'm trying to recall the trip specifics and also wondering, as always, what the scale means. And whether to be naively honest or strategic.

Mostly -- and before I retired I was rated on these types of scales -- how is a 1-10 (or in the Amtrak survey 1-100) scale normalized to anything? When I was rated on a 1-10 scale we were all told that we were shooting for top scores in the 8-10 range - and told we made that. Huuh?

When I was doing health care stuff - a patient - in no obvious distress - rated her pain as a 10 on the 1-10 scale. I've seen people with kidney stones and gout and heart attacks - their pain they couldn't even get breath to describe, but was probably in the 8-10 range - but they couldn't even say so.

So how to guess what a Customer Survey regards as bad - good -excellent?

What scale - in measurable terms - can I use to rate Amtrak?

My trip was good, on time, SCA and diner staff did all expected - is that 100 - ? or should I save a few points of the scale for "made me feel totally wanted and respected as a passenger - and maybe massaged my feet?

How to rate the feedback scale?


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## TimePeace (Sep 9, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > again as cars cycle through for their annual checks and minor refurbishments, they seem to be fixing the issues that caused the PA & call buttons to stop working after the removal of the TV's.
> ...


I agree. And as far as I know, you can't turn off the speaker in the hallway of the sleeper car, which is often VERY loud so that with your door closed it still is loud.

One time I was on the Zephyr and the dining car began announcing breakfast very early, around 6, every 10 minutes of so, yelling "WAKEY wakey wakey!" at the beginning of each announcement. Sheesh...


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## SarahZ (Sep 9, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> The fact that this is not standard practice is, well, another sign that Amtrak doesn't have a good, consistent training program for sleeper attendants.


Here's the thing, and I speak from experience.

I work for a company with a *phenomenal* customer service training program, and we have weekly meetings to reinforce some of the main points.

Those of us who already provide top-notch service and receive compliments from customers really don't need the follow-up, since being helpful and polite comes naturally to us, but we pay attention just in case a procedure has changed.

Those who provide less-than-stellar service roll their eyes and tune out during the meetings because of their "whatever" attitude. We spend our days cleaning up after these people and putting out their fires.

It's not a fault of the training program; it's the fault of those employees not receiving enough feedback. The managers have no idea what kind of service those employees provide because nobody tells them. Similarly, those of us who receive compliments on a daily basis rarely get accolades because, again, customers only speak up when they want to complain and never have the person's name. It's just a generic, "You people suck."

Bottom line: If you are unhappy with an employee, obtain their name somehow, and write a complaint to their manager. Be specific, avoid insults, and don't use lots of caps lock and exclamation points. As a former supervisor, I took complaints a lot more seriously when the person presented a situation with details rather than shrieking like a five-year old with a temper tantrum. It's obvious the person is upset; I don't need "OMG THEY WERE SO MEAN!!!!!!!!" to get that point across. I can "hear you" just fine.

On the flip side, if you are really happy with an employee, please please please obtain their name and send a letter to their manager. Too often, managers only hear about the bad seeds, not the good apples. The good apples deserve recognition too. 

Nathanael - I'm addressing everyone with this, not you specifically. I'm simply replying to your post because you mentioned training issues. You could have the most consistent training program in the world, but in the end, everyone is human, and everyone will interpret that training differently (or ignore it completely). People see the world in shades of grey, so when it comes to something like a rule that says (for example), "Let the guests know when you are going to dinner," an employee might think, "I'll just leave a note on my door. That's easier/sufficient," instead of, "I should provide my meal timeline to every passenger as I greet them in their rooms." Too many people consider what's quick/easy/good enough instead of what's better for the customers. Technically, having a note on their door does communicate they're gone for a meal, but telling the passengers when they're going ensures better service because the passengers can plan for that in advance. That's the difference between a decent employee and a GREAT employee.

Part of me wants to see the bad SCAs booted because I would LOVE to work as an SCA.  Heck, I'd be a ticket agent. Anything. I just really, really want to work for Amtrak someday.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Sorcha! Ive been a Customer of the Company you work for (State Farm) for over 40 years and an Amtrak Rider since A Day1!!! No comparison in Service!! While Customer Relations and Service has improved recently @ Amtrak,(a Few Exceptions, notably Chicago and some OBS on the Trains!!) they still need to hire some Trainers from Disney or State Farm to conduct a NEW Training Program for In Service and New Hire Training! As the Old Timers retire and Fade away, lots of Younger People have never had any kind of Training in Social Skills,Manners,Self Motivation, Business Operations etc. Also, as you said, the Managers and Suits need to quit Riding Desks and get out and Ride the Trains!

As to working for Amtrak, there's an Old saying, "Be careful what you ask for, you might get it!" <_< (although Im sure youd be a Dynamite Employee!  )


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## leemell (Sep 9, 2012)

I didn't know Amtrak employed "Dynamite Employees". Are they doing some mountain work?


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## SarahZ (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks, Jim.  I think I'd really enjoy it, but we need to move to Chicago first. I don't live in a hub city, so I never see any postings.

I'm sure it will happen some day. We've been talking about moving there next summer.

I should find out where AGR is based. That could be a fun job too.


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## calwatch (Sep 9, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> calwatch said:
> 
> 
> > You can sign up with these various mystery shopping companies and get invites to various mystery shopping jobs, although you may only get paid $5 or $10 above the cost of the meal or activity.
> ...


There are overall scales and scales for each of the questions. The primary focus that Amtrak has is to look at the fluctuation of the numbers over time. So if the score on the restroom goes down by 7 points over the past three months, that is cause for concern. (And the restroom scores have historically been the lowest category on the corridor trains).


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## AlanB (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> I should find out where AGR is based. That could be a fun job too.


Beyond the small contingent at Headquarters in DC, I believe that the bulk of AGR workers are in Philly and some place in California.


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## amamba (Sep 10, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > I should find out where AGR is based. That could be a fun job too.
> ...


I talked to an AGR agent last week who told me she was based in Philly.


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## guest (Sep 10, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > I should find out where AGR is based. That could be a fun job too.
> ...


Los Angeles


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## NW cannonball (Sep 10, 2012)

guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Sorcha said:
> ...


The AGR people, wherever they are, have been *most helpful* - in my recent experience.

Last November at MSP before e-tickets I stopped at the station to get my AGR ticket printed - the total rookie at the ticket desk did a "what huh - dont see nothing about any reservation"

Called AGR on my mobi, the agent there says - yeah - you are reserved. I asked her to speak with the noob ticket agent and handed him the phone. Don't know what she said, but I think his ears were burning. 2 minutes later he had learned something and I had my ticket.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 10, 2012)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > *So I can't expect good service in the future because I didn't tip well enough for bad service in the past?* That's good to know.
> ...


I do make it a point to be polite. I do not make demands. I simply request what I need as a question that they are free to accept or decline. However, I do not kiss-up to the staff. If they are having a bad day I will not coddle them or wipe their tears away or tell them it's going to be alright. I am not their father and they are not my children. They are adults who are being paid to do an adult's job. If they can't handle that then maybe they should look for another career that doesn't involve any front line duties. Sounds simple enough to me. Personally I think Amtrak could be twice as popular as it is now if only more of their staff treated customers like they are truly welcome and appreciated. Some Amtrak staff obviously care about the experience they're providing, but a surprising number really don't seem to give a damn one way or another and a few seem to go out of their way to cause as much trouble as possible.



The Davy Crockett said:


> > Ironically, much of the bad behavior I witness by the staff is not actually directed toward me personally. More often than not it's directed toward passengers who are new to the Amtrak experience and don't know how to avoid the irritation and admonition of the less tolerant staff.
> 
> 
> That is not what you seem to imply when you talk about repeat service.


Over the years I've learned what I can and what I cannot expect of the staff. For the most part I tend to keep to myself and do not give the staff much of a reason to get grouchy or angry with me. However, if the staff treats my friends or family rudely then yeah that really bothers me. At this point most of my friends and family won't even consider Amtrak anymore, mostly due to the lousy schedule and the bad attitudes of the staff. Maybe I didn't do enough to warn them what to expect or fully impress upon them how careful they should be to avoid being bossed around and argued with by the people we're supposedly paying to take care of us. But it seems odd that we really need to go through that much trouble just to avoid any friction with the staff. I must admit that I'm always amazed how people on AU never seem to notice any of the patronizing talk-downs some of the newer riders receive for nothing worse than asking a question or making a request without knowing the official protocol. I see it far too often and really bothers me.


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## leemell (Sep 10, 2012)

guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Sorcha said:
> ...


Riverside, CA


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## slimchipley (Sep 11, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> But most of my trips have been on Superliners and mostly those buttons are straightforward switches. The touch panel in Viewliners may be more prone to failure and I've only ridden Viewliners 3 times and those times were back in the 90s when the cars were newer.


Back when they had TVs in those rooms! I've never had to use the call button, but will vouch for their existence. I'm guessing they are at least as reliable as the PA sytsem.


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## crescent2 (Oct 7, 2012)

I know this is not a current thread, but to the OP, no, you are definitely NOT expecting too much. My mobility-impaired husband and I traveled on Amtrak many times (Crescent), and never experienced anything close to the rude behavior you received. I hope you reported this to Amtrak customer service, and if you didn't, it's still not too late. A letter would be even better. Amtrak cannot address what they do not know about. And yes, it is part of the attendant's job to help passengers who need help with their luggage. We were always cheerfully offered help even though I could manage our luggage. As for the other issues, they also show totally unacceptable behavior on the attendant's part. Best wishes on any future travels.


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## Nathanael (Oct 7, 2012)

If it's any help, apparently until recently Amtrak management had no formal system which could track comments and complaints regarding particular crew members, unless the customer had made the effort to get the crew member's name.

Soon, according to what I've been reading in various Amtrak publications, Amtrak will have such a system. Any complaint or compliment will be tied to the time, location, and reservation -- which will be used to figure out which engineer and conductors were working, and which car the passengers were in, and therefore which OBS people were inovlved.

This may make it more possible for Amtrak management to identify, document the behavior of, and remove the "bad 'uns".


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## zephyr17 (Oct 7, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> If it's any help, apparently until recently Amtrak management had no formal system which could track comments and complaints regarding particular crew members, unless the customer had made the effort to get the crew member's name.
> 
> Soon, according to what I've been reading in various Amtrak publications, Amtrak will have such a system. Any complaint or compliment will be tied to the time, location, and reservation -- which will be used to figure out which engineer and conductors were working, and which car the passengers were in, and therefore which OBS people were inovlved.
> 
> This may make it more possible for Amtrak management to identify, document the behavior of, and remove the "bad 'uns".


It's about time. That is the necessary very first step to improving customer service across the board. Hopefully, this means Amtrak is finally starting down a long road of putting enforced customer service standards in place.


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## AlanB (Oct 8, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> If it's any help, apparently until recently Amtrak management had no formal system which could track comments and complaints regarding particular crew members, unless the customer had made the effort to get the crew member's name.
> 
> Soon, according to what I've been reading in various Amtrak publications, Amtrak will have such a system. Any complaint or compliment will be tied to the time, location, and reservation -- which will be used to figure out which engineer and conductors were working, and which car the passengers were in, and therefore which OBS people were inovlved.
> 
> This may make it more possible for Amtrak management to identify, document the behavior of, and remove the "bad 'uns".


No, AFAIK, as long as one didn't wait too long and could provide enough other information, Amtrak could always figure out who the attendant was. Tracking a SA in the diner or a conductor was much harder and it remains so, since there is always more than one, so without a name there often is no way to figure out who it was unless for example one conductor was male & the other female or one was 60 and the other 25.


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