# Two different headlines on Brightline accident



## me_little_me (Dec 31, 2021)

NBC News: Two killed in Florida train crash after car ignores crossing gate

Fox News: 2 killed after Florida high-speed train hits car on railroad crossing north of Miami

One makes it clear where the fault lies. The other does not. Sad that some companies mislead the public so often. One has to read more than the headline to read the facts.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 1, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> NBC News: Two killed in Florida train crash after car ignores crossing gate
> 
> Fox News: 2 killed after Florida high-speed train hits car on railroad crossing north of Miami
> 
> One makes it clear where the fault lies. The other does not. Sad that some companies mislead the public so often. One has to read more than the headline to read the facts.


I saw the NBC one and was happy they indicated, in the headline, who was at fault.
Hopefully that headline reached at least one person who will no longer consider running around the gates.


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## chrsjrcj (Jan 1, 2022)

The Fox News headline also incorrectly calls it a high speed train.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 1, 2022)

chrsjrcj said:


> The Fox News headline also incorrectly calls it a high speed train.


I would guess that to the general public a train moving at 79 mph is high speed - compared to slow moving freight trains that they're more likely to encounter.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jan 1, 2022)

chrsjrcj said:


> The Fox News headline also incorrectly calls it a high speed train.


In general, Brightline has incorrectly been called a high speed train quite a lot, some even going as far as saying it’s faster than the Acela.

is there a video of this incident?


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## moosejunky99 (Jan 1, 2022)

Two killed in Florida train crash after car ignores crossing gate 

there is a video here.. seems like the car stopped and train hit the car..


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## slasher-fun (Jan 1, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> One makes it clear where the fault lies. The other does not. Sad that some companies mislead the public so often. One has to read more than the headline to read the facts.


That's also how most situations where a car driver hits a pedestrian/cyclist are reported: you'll often read that the victim has been struck by a car in an accident, without a mention about the driver, and whether he may be at fault (an accident happens when every reasonable step had been taken to prevent a crash: in most cases, "accidents" are actually crashes, in which the car driver is at fault).


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## flitcraft (Jan 1, 2022)

Fault in auto accidents is frequently complicated--involving some negligence on the part of the driver or drivers, some negligence on the part of non-driver pedestrians and bicyclists, and some unavoidable non-negligent causes, including tire failure, sudden emergencies, animals unexpectedly crossing the road, badly engineered intersections, etc. Parsing out how much each of these causes contributed to the harm in a case is why juries are instructed on comparative fault in their verdicts. 

On the other hand, car-train accidents almost always involve negligence, if not recklessness, on the part of the car at the grade crossing. Much simpler allocation of fault.


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## me_little_me (Jan 1, 2022)

slasher-fun said:


> That's also how most situations where a car driver hits a pedestrian/cyclist are reported: you'll often read that the victim has been struck by a car in an accident, without a mention about the driver, and whether he may be at fault (an accident happens when every reasonable step had been taken to prevent a crash: in most cases, "accidents" are actually crashes, in which the car driver is at fault).


But the car driver has a chance (albeit possibly to little of one) to maneuver or brake to avoid the accident. The train cannot do anything but attempt to do full braking and pray. Moreover, going onto the tracks when the lights are on and gates are down is patently illegal everywhere.
With car vs pedestrian, it takes an investigation to determine fault, primary fault or if more than one participant is at fault.


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## daybeers (Jan 2, 2022)

Let's be clear that there are very few accidents; only crashes and incidents. Traffic injuries and deaths are preventable. This includes railroad crossing incidents as well.


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## VentureForth (Jan 3, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> NBC News: Two killed in Florida train crash after car ignores crossing gate
> 
> Fox News: 2 killed after Florida high-speed train hits car on railroad crossing north of Miami
> 
> One makes it clear where the fault lies. The other does not. Sad that some companies mislead the public so often. One has to read more than the headline to read the facts.


I don't see anything wrong with the Fox headline. It's factually correct. Only in this world of macro analysis can one extract the fault to be the trains.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jan 3, 2022)

VentureForth said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the Fox headline. It's factually correct. Only in this world of macro analysis can one extract the fault to be the trains.


While the Fox headline doesn't get any information wrong, it withholds one extremely relevant part of the story.

Causation is important. This crash would not have happened if the driver had obeyed the law.

Essentially, one headline absolves the driver of any wrongdoing.
The other acknowledges how the driver's wrongdoing lead to their death and their passenger's death.

Headline 1:
"Car struck in the middle of intersection killing driver and passenger"

Headline 2:
"Car runs red light, leading to lethal crash at four way intersection."


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## TrackWalker (Jan 3, 2022)

Regardless of the headline issue maybe it is time for crossing safety commercials (education) more in line with Australia's.


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## me_little_me (Jan 3, 2022)

VentureForth said:


> I don't see anything wrong with the Fox headline. It's factually correct. Only in this world of macro analysis can one extract the fault to be the trains.


Not necessarily true. Look how many people in Florida that have blamed Brightline for so many deaths even though not one of them has been their fault. People unfortunately scan headlines instead of reading the articles and assume fault based on that. After all, if the Brightline train hadn't been there, or gone so fast, or had so many trains, etc, etc, those deaths would not have occurred.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 3, 2022)

From FB - new engine livery

Photo Credit: Seth Reynolds


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## chrsjrcj (Jan 3, 2022)

Had the radio on during lunch and heard a “See Tracks, Think Train” advertisement sponsored by Brightline.


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## west point (Jan 4, 2022)

It is time for an all out enforcement blitz. Take the reliable schedule and have enforcement meet each crossing about 5 minutes before and start citing. Very big fines!!!


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## Qapla (Jan 4, 2022)

TrackWalker said:


> Regardless of the headline issue maybe it is time for crossing safety commercials (education) more in line with Australia's.



That is a very sobering ad - although, I think they could have left the two yahoos in the truck out and just focused on the serious aspect of being aware of trains.

There needs to be one about driving around the barriers and/or "beating" the train.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jan 4, 2022)

The Australian video with the mom and her kids stopping on the tracks is something I see all the time. In Auburn ME there is a RR crossing with a major intersection just beyond it and people just stop on the crossing. Fortunately this line (Pan Am) just sees maybe 4 trains a day max but one is still playing Russian roulette stopping there.

Perhaps a better design would have an additional set of lights just before the crossing to prevent drivers stopping on the crossing.


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## SubwayNut (Jan 4, 2022)

An Aussie showed me this ad more than 10 years ago in a Youth Hostel in Seattle when I was describing my hobby traveling and photographing railroad stations. I still sometimes have the tune stuck in my head, it's direct and brilliant.



Update: Didn't realize YouTube imbeds automatically!


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## jazzpianoman (Jan 4, 2022)

I have a friend who is a conductor on Brightline. Last week he was running after a Miami Heat game. Almost all of his passengers were drunk and throwing up on the cars. He said he rounded a corner on the line and saw a car stuck on the tracks and told his engineer to "get ready to stop." Low and Behold! there was a car stuck in the middle of both mains _and not a grade crossing insight_. The rest is in his words:


> Engineer stops the train, maybe 200 feet from caking this guy.
> I climb down "Hey man, this ain't no ******** road! What the f*ck!"
> Call dispatch, tell him there's a car blocking both mains, they call the cops and also a tow truck and also a track inspector.
> Cop shows up "Hey man, I just got back from responding to a shots fired with over 60 bullets."
> ...


(Hopefully, I censored all of the cuss words lol)


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## VentureForth (Jan 4, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> Not necessarily true. Look how many people in Florida that have blamed Brightline for so many deaths even though not one of them has been their fault. People unfortunately scan headlines instead of reading the articles and assume fault based on that. After all, if the Brightline train hadn't been there, or gone so fast, or had so many trains, etc, etc, those deaths would not have occurred.


That's a tort issue, not a journalistic issue.



jazzpianoman said:


> I have a friend who is a conductor on Brightline. Last week he was running after a Miami Heat game. Almost all of his passengers were drunk and throwing up on the cars. He said he rounded a corner on the line and saw a car stuck on the tracks and told his engineer to "get ready to stop." Low and Behold! there was a car stuck in the middle of both mains _and not a grade crossing insight_. The rest is in his words:
> 
> (Hopefully, I censored all of the cuss words lol)


This is what Tri-Rail is for!


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## me_little_me (Jan 4, 2022)

Here's another one about that company "killing" people:

Florida passenger train line kills 5th person in a month


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 4, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> Here's another one about that company "killing" people:
> 
> Florida passenger train line kills 5th person in a month


The story points out the numbers in comparison to the other "800 railroads".

I didn't know there were so many railroads in the US.


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## west point (Feb 17, 2022)

We may have to wonder how Brightline is going to keep running when full service starts. All the damage to locos will take time to fix.


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## jis (Feb 17, 2022)

I suspect eventually they will have to fence a lot more and also eliminate many more grade crossings. Should be quite a challenge.

Elevated track like on the LIRR South Shore line to Babylon may be in their future since the population is going to keep growing along the ROW for the next few decades at least.


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## Ziv (Feb 17, 2022)

I agree that the Fox headline is stupid, but one small redeeming feature is that the article plants the blame firmly on the driver, repeatedly. But the headline is all that a lot of people read when they are skimming news sources.


Tlcooper93 said:


> While the Fox headline doesn't get any information wrong, it withholds one extremely relevant part of the story.
> 
> Causation is important. This crash would not have happened if the driver had obeyed the law.
> 
> ...


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## MARC Rider (Feb 17, 2022)

jis said:


> I suspect eventually they will have to fence a lot more and also eliminate many more grade crossings. Should be quite a challenge.
> 
> Elevated track like on the LIRR South Shore line to Babylon may be in their future since the population is going to keep growing along the ROW for the next few decades at least.


You're right, but will the capitalists that own Brightline want to cough up the dough needed for all those improvements? I guess they will if they need to do it to keep the trains running but spending the $$$$ needed will sure mess up their bottom line. I'm increasing my odds that this service eventually gets turfed off to the public sector.


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## jis (Feb 17, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> You're right, but will the capitalists that own Brightline want to cough up the dough needed for all those improvements? I guess they will if they need to do it to keep the trains running but spending the $$$$ needed will sure mess up their bottom line. I'm increasing my odds that this service eventually gets turfed off to the public sector.


Who is to say that the local governments or the state won't contribute. Witness what is happening with the New River Bridge in Fort Lauderdale and the entire Northeast Corridor Project.

I don't think that the high price service will get turfed, but the local service already is. And since all use the same tracks, necessary changes to tracks will be made to enable the more frequent local service, than the less frequent high priced and faster service. As long as it is found to be convenient it will get funded some way or the other.


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## Willbridge (Feb 19, 2022)

jis said:


> Who is to say that the local governments or the state won't contribute? Witness what is happening with the New River Bridge in Fort Lauderdale and the entire Northeast Corridor Project.
> 
> I don't think that the high price service will get turfed, but the local service already is. And since all use the same tracks, necessary changes to tracks will be made to enable the more frequent local service, than the less frequent high priced and faster service. As long as it is found to be convenient it will get funded some way or the other.


The several grade separations on the Joint Line from Denver into Littleton included funding from the RTD, municipalities, CDOH>CDOT, federal funds and the two railways. Some parts were done in the 1980's, others as part of the 2000 opening of the Southwest LRT line. It was a lengthy project but eliminated a lot of problems. Florida should start planning now.



A Denver overpass takes Evans Avenue over a BNSF industrial lead, double-track LRT line, and triple-track Joint Line.


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