# A brief review of the Bombardier Comet VI/NJT Bi-Level



## Green Maned Lion (Apr 19, 2008)

Yesterday, as culmination of a week of ridiculous off-the-wall scheduling so as to be able to make money driving someone to the airport, of all the horrible places, we took a rail trip to newark and such, which I will probably detail in the travelogue section later today. Anyway, the train trip home involved the first time I have heard of Comet VIs operating on the North Jersey Coast Line. They were used on the 4:05 Friday train out of Newark, I think its the 3:50 trip out of NYPenn. I know its the last off-peak train south. I've taken it before- its usually standing room only out of Newark. Due to the extra room provided by the new equipment, however, nobody stood.

*Pros:*

The new cars have some good features. The view provided by them on the upper deck is such that I saw things on the line previously hidden from view by trackside foliage. The elimination of the dreaded 3-person seat and the resultant widening of all seats, combined with the more anatomically shaped seats make this car considerably more comfortable than its predecessors. It is commendable that this was managed while increasing overall car capacity considerably. The folding armrests on the seats compared to the fixed ones on previous Comet designs are also a bonus, making egress and ingress much easier and more dignified.

*Cons:*

Unfortunately, there are quite a few of these. Amtrak seems to have figured out a pretty good suspension setup for their Superliners such that they sway, but are not prone to what I'd call "head-toss". The sway of the new Comet VIs is what I'd call "excessive". It often felt more like riding on a boat than a train, to be honest. The ability to empty the train is somewhat inhibited by the lack of center-doors, and it can create a problem when the people in the standing areas block people in the seating areas from exiting. Obviously, designing center doors into this car would greatly compromise its capacity, but the point does stand.

Next, I don't know about the rest of the system, but on the North Jersey Coast Line, there are several locations were, even with the old cars, the trains would be too long to fully platform. This would especially be the case in Long Branch, where the train often would be diverted to the yard early in its travel, and sometimes as few as two cars could platform. With the single level design of the old Comet cars, they would simply pull the train to the point where the first X cars that fit would have their doors open and people detraining would be told perhaps 3 to 5 minute prior to the stop to walk forward. Due to the single level nature and automatic doors on the earlier Comet cars, this would not be a problem.

Unfortunately, this is a bigger problem on the new Comet VIs because of the fact that walking through 3 or 4 cars means ascending and descending six to eight flights of stairs. I suspect that either platforms will need to be lengthened, cars will need to be assigned, or they will need to make multiple stops, because for some people, especially older people, this can be a serious problem.

The next issue is a tiny one- the arm rests are a bit too low to be useful for resting my arms.

And the last issue concerns the placement of the luggage racks. Due to the much lower height inherent to building a bi-level car suited to fitting into the North Shore Tunnels, the overall clearance of the car is low- some particularly tall people on the train had to bow their heads a bit- There seems to be about 6'5" of clearance or so- and that means the luggage racks are tiny, can only fit a small briefcase, and are placed poorly. Now, I admit, when I rode this train yesterday, I had been awake for more than 24 hours. I'd admit that I was coming off a red-bull overdose. I'll admit that part of this was probably caused by the above factors. But the fact of the matter is, I, who at 5' 11", am not particularly tall, smashed myself in the side of the head on the luggage rack hard enough to be even more woozy. This may have influenced my entire review, to be honest.

But given their limited usability, their inconvenient and possibly dangerous positioning within the car, and the fact that a good percentage of their core riders are often woozy due to alcohol consumed in Penn Station, I wonder why they included the racks at all.


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## Dutchrailnut (Apr 19, 2008)

Ok now for exageration factor: a flight of stairs is a entire floor level or about 15 steps, to walk from vestibule to lower level is 3 steps and another 3 steps at other end of car.

to go up to upper level is about 7 or 8 steps, so still well short of a flight of stairs.

communication with crew will find you sitting in right car for a certain designation so you do not have to walk through several cars.

as they say poor planning on your part does not make it a crisis on railroads end.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 19, 2008)

What you are saying makes sense for Amtrak, and I don't know how it is on Metro-North. But the problem is that, well, take Newark for example. The train pulls into Newark during rush hour. They are never there more than maybe 2 minutes. In this time I have seen as many as two hundred people board the train as they come flying down the PATH ramp. I don't think there is much time for the communication and planning.

Besides the part about smashing my head, I'm not really just reviewing it from my point of view. I'm reviewing it from the perspective of where I think most passengers see it, and from different types of passengers. I do not have a problem bounding up and down stairs, climbing over things, or moving very quickly on a moving train- even one that sways a lot. I've spent enough time racing back and forth over the length of Amtrak trains, small boats, large RVs, and on my late best friend's dad's 58' sailboat in a gale to not have a problem with it. But, for example, my dad is arthritic, has balance problems, and a torn ACL. He'd have a MUCH harder problem with it.

I'm also just pointing out problems with it, probably some of which are just becoming apparent to NJT itself. I don't think these cars have seen much service outside of the NEC, which obviously has plenty of full-length, high-level platforms.


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## AlanB (Apr 19, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> What you are saying makes sense for Amtrak, and I don't know how it is on Metro-North. But the problem is that, well, take Newark for example. The train pulls into Newark during rush hour. They are never there more than maybe 2 minutes. In this time I have seen as many as two hundred people board the train as they come flying down the PATH ramp. I don't think there is much time for the communication and planning.


While that's true, when the conductor comes to collect your ticket you can ask him/her about said issue and if you'll need to relocate prior to arrival at that station stop. That would give you time to move through the train, perhaps even jumping one car each time the train stops at a stop prior to your stop.



Green Maned Lion said:


> I'm also just pointing out problems with it, probably some of which are just becoming apparent to NJT itself. I don't think these cars have seen much service outside of the NEC, which obviously has plenty of full-length, high-level platforms.


I'm not sure if I've seen reports of the cars on the northern lines out of Hoboken, but these cars have been in use on the Morris & Essex lines, which have plenty of low level plats.


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## Dutchrailnut (Apr 19, 2008)

As for height , I am 6 foot 3 and initially ducked down due to ceiling height, but found out I can stand with no problem and ducking is not neccesary.

The rest of world has no problems with Bi-levels and I am sure we can train the mutants(commuters) in joisey ;-)


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## Joel N. Weber II (Apr 20, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> But the fact of the matter is, I, who at 5' 11", am not particularly tall, smashed myself in the side of the head on the luggage rack hard enough to be even more woozy.


Part of this may be a matter of getting used to the design of those cars.

On the MBTA Red Line when the train happens to be mostly empty, I will often set my backpack down, stand facing the side of the car, take off my coat and put it on the seats, and then sit down. I've never had trouble hitting my head on the railing that people who are standing can grab.

I was riding the 83 bus from Porter Square one day (it goes almost all the way to Alewife station by a somewhat more direct route than the Red Line, and while the bus operates in traffic, there isn't that much traffic, and it does save a trip down the longest escalators in the whole MBTA system at Porter Square, and I happened to see the bus coming as I was walking to Porter Square) and tried something similar and did hit my head. Apparently I failed to realize until that point that buses can move nearly perpendicular to the direction of travel in a way that the Red Line trains apparently don't. (Plus the aisle isn't as wide on the bus.)


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## jis (May 2, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also just pointing out problems with it, probably some of which are just becoming apparent to NJT itself. I don't think these cars have seen much service outside of the NEC, which obviously has plenty of full-length, high-level platforms.
> ...


There are now three MLV (Multi Level Vehicle - that's their official designation at NJT) sets assigned to M&E. They even run on weekends these days.

One thing that they have discovered through trial and error is that it is not a good idea to send a more than 10 car train to M&E because of platform length issues. So now they are careful to assign only 9 or 10 car trains. It is still an issue at BNW (Newark Broad Street) because of the station reconstruction) but that will go away in another 3 or 4 months as the reconstruction is completed.

Low level platforms themselves are not as big an issue as platforms that are much shorter than the train causing many more people to have to do the jog up and down through several cars to get to an open door thus extending dwell times and delaying the train.

Those ALP46s are absolutely amazing shoving these heavy trains up the Millburn - Summit ramp!


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