# Cruise ship discussion



## Ferroequinologist

PVD said:


> My first plane trip as a child, an Eastern Airlines DC-8 from Idlewild to Miami. My parents dressed me in a shirt and tie. Times have changed. More recently, cruises have become much less formal, dress codes for most meals very relaxed. Formal night is now jacket and tie, not formal attire. The number of people who like it the old way is not considered large enough to support that as the standard, it still exists, but is more of a niche market now.



Cunard, especially trans-Atlantic crossings, still have a dress code and two or three black tie nights per crossing. All other nights men are expected to wear a dark suit or jacket. If not, they have to eat in the self-service restaurant.

MODERATOR NOTE: this comment and the ones following it were split from a discussion regarding Amtrak Viewliner Restrooms.


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## PVD

Like I said, it still exists, but is nowhere near as common. Of course a transatlantic crossing is generally a liner crossing, not a cruise.


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## me_little_me

PVD said:


> Like I said, it still exists, but is nowhere near as common. Of course a transatlantic crossing is generally a liner crossing, not a cruise.


Only with Cunard. On the other hand, we considered our transatlantic cruise on Celebrity to be the best we ever had. It was 14 days so not a direct route and had 3 stops before arrival in the UK. It was as much a part of the vacation as Amtrak used to be. And it was as cheap as Cunard for comparable rooms as well as being without the pretentiousness and snobbery. Cunard IMHO is for the rich to show off their money as well as their desire to get to Europe in as short a time as possible without flying.


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## PVD

That's part of the point, the broader market has moved away from what used to be common. Cruises (before Covid) have become increasingly popular, point to point crossings are almost gone.


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## railiner

me_little_me said:


> Cunard IMHO is for the rich to show off their money as well as their desire to get to Europe in as short a time as possible without flying.


Only partially....the QM2 is capable of doing a NY-Soton crossing in just 5 days, but they now do it in 7 or 8 days, because people want the longer experience, and because slowing down saves a huge amount of fuel...


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## PVD

The fuel has a lot to do with it. Cunard is owned by Carnival, they only stand on Cunard tradition if it makes them money.


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## Palmland

Just as many of us take a plane one way and return on an LD train, I wish Cruise Lines would do the same. I guess it makes logistics easier for them, but I do think there would be a market for it.

I suspect that is partly why there are still a few transatlantic crossings with Cunard and positioning moves by others. You get the best of the 'it's about the journey, not the destination' philosophy and an extended stay at your destination.


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## PVD

It isn't just logistics, there are laws about foreign flagged and crewed vessels and what they can do out of US ports.


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## railiner

PVD said:


> It isn't just logistics, there are laws about foreign flagged and crewed vessels and what they can do out of US ports.


A transatlantic crossing, or a similar transatlantic repositioning cruise, is not affected at all by the Passenger Vessel Services Act, which only regulates 'cabotage' from one US port, to another US port...


https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf


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## PVD

Exactly, that's why those still exist, but regular cruises leaving from and returning to the same port are closed loop. The same passengers that boarded are expected to disembark when they return.


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## Winecliff Station

me_little_me said:


> Only with Cunard. On the other hand, we considered our transatlantic cruise on Celebrity to be the best we ever had. It was 14 days so not a direct route and had 3 stops before arrival in the UK. It was as much a part of the vacation as Amtrak used to be. And it was as cheap as Cunard for comparable rooms as well as being without the pretentiousness and snobbery. Cunard IMHO is for the rich to show off their money as well as their desire to get to Europe in as short a time as possible without flying.



I am nowhere near rich but I enjoy Cunard for the tradition and liner history that it promotes on board.....although granted since the selling of the QE2 that has dropped and Cunard is becoming more of a mainstream cruise line. I'm kind of a liner geek so I get there may not be the same appeal to everyone. For example there was a lecturer named Bill Miller who did presentations on the history of not only Cunard but the whole liner industry of all nations. They also had ship tours where the guide would bring you around while entertaining with some in depth passenger experiences from over the years of liner travel. If by showing off money you mean the Queens Grill, yeah the segregation is unfortunate, but steerage has come a long way since a hundred years ago. 

That being said, I compare Amtrak to liner travel all the time as my plan for retirement is surface travel only....the more flying becomes unbearable, and when time is no longer a factor, there's no need to get in a tiny sardine box where you have to spoon with the passenger in front of you when they recline their seat

Trains are like ships in the sense that you feel they are bringing the world to you, rather than the other way around. I remember taking the QV from NY to San Francisco and being in the Golden Lion pub where I saw the Statue of Liberty through the window at our table. A week later, I saw the walls of the Panama Canal through the same window. It is the same for me on a train, especially in a bedroom, as the view outside the same room changes and brings new places to me.


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## Ferroequinologist

You are correct. Cunard is now the exception. Also the Queen Mary2 is the LAST of the ocean liners, all others are cruise ships.


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## Ferroequinologist

Winecliff Station said:


> I am nowhere near rich but I enjoy Cunard for the tradition and liner history that it promotes on board.....although granted since the selling of the QE2 that has dropped and Cunard is becoming more of a mainstream cruise line. I'm kind of a liner geek so I get there may not be the same appeal to everyone. For example there was a lecturer named Bill Miller who did presentations on the history of not only Cunard but the whole liner industry of all nations. They also had ship tours where the guide would bring you around while entertaining with some in depth passenger experiences from over the years of liner travel. If by showing off money you mean the Queens Grill, yeah the segregation is unfortunate, but steerage has come a long way since a hundred years ago.
> 
> That being said, I compare Amtrak to liner travel all the time as my plan for retirement is surface travel only....the more flying becomes unbearable, and when time is no longer a factor, there's no need to get in a tiny sardine box where you have to spoon with the passenger in front of you when they recline their seat
> 
> Trains are like ships in the sense that you feel they are bringing the world to you, rather than the other way around. I remember taking the QV from NY to San Francisco and being in the Golden Lion pub where I saw the Statue of Liberty through the window at our table. A week later, I saw the walls of the Panama Canal through the same window. It is the same for me on a train, especially in a bedroom, as the view outside the same room changes and brings new places to me.



I don't think Cunard is like most cruise lines. There is a great deal more tradition and formality on the Cunard ships.


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## me_little_me

PVD said:


> That's part of the point, the broader market has moved away from what used to be common. Cruises (before Covid) have become increasingly popular, point to point crossings are almost gone.


Point to point crossings still exist. Transpacific and transatlantic crossings, however, are used to reposition ships so e.g. Caribbean in the winter from the U.S. and Europe in the summer from Europe. Similarly, west coast of US and Pacific at different times depending on port of departure/return.


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## NS VIA Fan

Here's a little nostalgia I posted elsewhere as part of a discussion about CP re-acquiring their old mainline across Maine to Brownville Jct. Irving's Eastern Maine and New Brunswick Southern Railway handle trains beyond there to Saint John. This is the old _Atlantic Limited_ route.

When the St. Lawrence shipping season closed in winter Canadian Pacific's 'White Empresses' would sail between Saint John and Liverpool and those sailings schedules were “according to tide” They could vary greatly do to the extreme tides in the Bay of Fundy.

CP ran connecting Boat Trains to/from Montreal's Windsor Station across Maine to connect with the Empresses in Saint John.












Just as the new 'Empress of Canada' arrived in 1961....the CP 'Jet' Empresses were taking over. The Empress of Canada eventually became Carnival's first cruise ship 'Mardi Gras'


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## tgstubbs1

PVD said:


> That's part of the point, the broader market has moved away from what used to be common. Cruises (before Covid) have become increasingly popular, point to point crossings are almost gone.


I found a web site a few years back that was all about passage on cargo ships. 
They made it sound like an interesting experience but not luxurious. Not exactly cheap either compared to air.


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## PVD

And cargo ships don' always go to the "most desirable" places..


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## tgstubbs1

Well, maybe some people want the "Indiana Jones" experience.

I don't think Cunard goes to South America.


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## PVD

A few years ago, my sister and brother in law went on a long cruise around South America - I think it was Santiago Chile to Rio, around Cape Horn. They flew from Phoenix, they changed planes a couple of times getting to Chile, and I think one leg was on Cartel Air. (Princess and Cunard are both Carnival owned)


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## Dakota 400

tgstubbs1 said:


> I found a web site a few years back that was all about passage on cargo ships.
> They made it sound like an interesting experience but not luxurious. Not exactly cheap either compared to air.



For many years, I subscribed to a publication that printed stories written by freighter passengers. (Some stories were included written by cruise passengers as well from time to time. I even had one printed.) The company that did this was a primarily freighter oriented travel agency; it's still in business, has a web site, but I don't know if the publication is still available. They transitioned from a hard copy to a digital one a few years ago and I allowed my subscription lapse. 

The stories and the experiences that people had were very enticing. In order to be able to sail such a "cruise", the key word was flexibility . From the date of sailing to the trip's ending date--and everything in between--one had to be willing to "go with the flow".


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## railiner

Found on the 'net...





Maris Freighter Cruise & Travel Club, Around the World Cruises


Cruise the world on freighters, from coastal and island specialties to one way ocean crossings and round the world cruises.



www.freightercruises.com













Freighter Travel Costs And Questions


Freighter Travel: Many questions about freighter cruises are answered , ie, working on a freighter, cheap freighter travel, and freighter cargo ship travel.




www.gonomad.com













Freighter travel – Travel guide at Wikivoyage







en.wikivoyage.org





And lots more...."google is your friend"....


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## tgstubbs1

I read an article saying a cruise ship will be auctioned in London very soon. The cruise lines are really hurting. There might still be some people stranded on ships because of quarantines, etc.


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## railiner

tgstubbs1 said:


> I read an article saying a cruise ship will be auctioned in London very soon. The cruise lines are really hurting. There might still be some people stranded on ships because of quarantines, etc.


All passengers reached their destination months ago...and almost all crew wanting to get home, also...
As a matter of fact, cruises in a few places have started again, practicing very strict health protocol's....


https://www.msccruises.com/en-gl/Itinerary-Updates.aspx


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## Just-Thinking-51

There two new build that will be finish later this year, early next year. The ordering company has defaulted on the payment. Nice big, German made ships too. If your in the market now the time.


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## tgstubbs1

railiner said:


> All passengers reached their destination months ago...and almost all crew wanting to get home, also...
> As a matter of fact, cruises in a few places have started again, practicing very strict health protocol's....
> 
> 
> https://www.msccruises.com/en-gl/Itinerary-Updates.aspx


It was staff that were ' stranded'. A lot of local political issues, I guess.


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## DryCreek

Two of Carnival's Fantasy Class ships just went to the breakers in Turkey.
There are numerous You Tube clips showing them being grounded. They are right next to two older Royal Caribbean ships.
I think that more from the cruise fleet may be heading to the breakers in Indonesia and India.


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## Dakota 400

railiner said:


> Found on the 'net...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maris Freighter Cruise & Travel Club, Around the World Cruises
> 
> 
> Cruise the world on freighters, from coastal and island specialties to one way ocean crossings and round the world cruises.
> 
> 
> 
> www.freightercruises.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freighter Travel Costs And Questions
> 
> 
> Freighter Travel: Many questions about freighter cruises are answered , ie, working on a freighter, cheap freighter travel, and freighter cargo ship travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gonomad.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freighter travel – Travel guide at Wikivoyage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikivoyage.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And lots more...."google is your friend"....



There's more that you found than I thought. The company with which I dealt is not one of those you mentioned.


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## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Two of Carnival's Fantasy Class ships just went to the breakers in Turkey.
> There are numerous You Tube clips showing them being grounded. They are right next to two older Royal Caribbean ships.
> I think that more from the cruise fleet may be heading to the breakers in Indonesia and India.




Four of the eight Fantasy Class ships are expected to be returned to service at some point of time. Two are in cold layup as I understand with no clear plans by Carnival Cruise Line as to their future. 

It would be interesting--at least to me--to know what basis CCL is using to decide which of these ships to remove from service and which ones to "save". Two of those, Carnival Paradise and Carnival Elation, have the more modern azipod propulsion system, so their preservation for future use is understandable. Yet, Carnival Ecstasy is now the 2nd oldest ship in Carnival Cruise Lines fleet and is expected to return to service while a younger sister is at the breakers now.


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## tgstubbs1

One article I read said they seemed to favor larger ships. They have really grown in size. I'm pretty sure they have other criteria, too.


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## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> Four of the eight Fantasy Class ships are expected to be returned to service at some point of time. Two are in cold layup as I understand with no clear plans by Carnival Cruise Line as to their future.
> 
> It would be interesting--at least to me--to know what basis CCL is using to decide which of these ships to remove from service and which ones to "save". Two of those, Carnival Paradise and Carnival Elation, have the more modern azipod propulsion system, so their preservation for future use is understandable. Yet, Carnival Ecstasy is now the 2nd oldest ship in Carnival Cruise Lines fleet and is expected to return to service while a younger sister is at the breakers now.


Balconies. It's all about the number of balconies a ship has to offer.
While the Azipods are greater and offer slightly better maneuverability, they are slightly less reliable. The Ecstacy is an OK ship - we sailed on her in 2010. But, she had more balcony rooms (aft, added to the sides) than the Fantasy did.


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## Ziv

I was a week from booking a trip on a RCCL cruise ship from Puerto Rico to 5 islands (St. Thomas, St. Maarten, St. John, Antigua and St. Lucia) and then back to PR in the middle of March. That week was the last time I ate in a cafe for several months, and it was also the week I started wearing a mask. Hard to believe how life has changed, for the worse. 
On 9/11 though, it is hard not to think back to the world before 9/11 with a sad feeling of loss of innocence.
Still wish that I had gotten that cruise in a month earlier!


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## Maglev

Funny that I come to this thread and see mention of the only cruise ship I have ever sailed on, the _Ecstacy. _We had a Veranda cabin for a three- or four-night cruise to Ensenada. It was in fact shortly after 9-11, and we were buzzed by fighter jets twice during the cruise.

My first wife also sailed on the Hawaii interisland cruise on the _SS Constitution. _She and her daughter were originally assigned an inside cabin with bunks, but they complained and were upgraded to twin beds with a porthole. I saw their (very sparse) cabin and had lunch on the ship while their cruise was in Kahului, and another time had dinner on the ship (I was living on Maui then).


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## Dakota 400

Ziv said:


> On 9/11 though, it is hard not to think back to the world before 9/11 with a sad feeling of loss of innocence.



I agree. 9/11 was a societal changer. 2020 is another one as well. 

While I was only a child and teenager during the 1950's, playing the song sung by Ronnie Milsap _Back in the Fifties--Another Time, Another Place_ is comforting to me. It was a time that seemed so uncomplicated, so good. 

Then, the Sixties arrived. And, the world, it seems to me, has been in one turmoil after another ever since.


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## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Balconies. It's all about the number of balconies a ship has to offer.



Balconies mean the cruise line can get more revenue than from "just" an outside cabin.


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## tgstubbs1

Dakota 400 said:


> Balconies mean the cruise line can get more revenue than from "just" an outside cabin.


I guess cruises were doing great business before the pandemic, even though there seemed to be rotavirus outbreaks from time to time, and drunks(?) falling overboard. 
People really seem to like them, I'm sure they'll be flocking back in droves when things are back to normal.


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## railiner

I'm sure having "withdrawal pains". My last cruise (Antartica) ended in March. My July 2020 cruise was of course, canceled. I am hopefully optimistic that my end of July, 2021 cruise goes as scheduled....


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## Ferroequinologist

me_little_me said:


> Point to point crossings still exist. Transpacific and transatlantic crossings, however, are used to reposition ships so e.g. Caribbean in the winter from the U.S. and Europe in the summer from Europe. Similarly, west coast of US and Pacific at different times depending on port of departure/return.



Cunard's Queen Mary 2 has a regular schedule of Trans-Atlantic crossings. They are not transitions.


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## Asher

I was in one of the hoard of small boats that watched the Queen Mary come through the Long Beach Breakwall at the end her finale cruise. Sad day!


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## PVD

QM2 is unique in that it was purpose built as a liner with crossings in mind, rather than as a cruise ship.


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## Dakota 400

railiner said:


> My last cruise (Antartica) ended in March



Well, at least you were able to complete it before the cruise industry shut down.

If that would happen to be your last cruise for awhile, at least to would have been a good one. (Mine was to Antarctica!) On what ship did you sail?


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## me_little_me

PVD said:


> QM2 is unique in that it was purpose built as a liner with crossings in mind, rather than as a cruise ship.


Correct. That's why I didn't link it with cruise ships. It doesn't cruise. Basically, it's like the old fashioned transportation in the days before transatlantic air service. Mostly, it does straight port to/from port from one port in a country without intermediate stops in as short a reasonable time as it can. So, transatlantic US to UK is 7 days vs as much as twice that on cruise ships. You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.

So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.

It actually would be a better counterpart to Amtrak than the cruise lines would be. Transportation with amenities rather than amenities with transport.


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## NS VIA Fan

I was on the waterfront back in September 2004 (wow....16 years ago!)......for the Queen Mary 2's inaugural trip to Halifax....birthplace of the line's founder: Samuel Cunard.





https://flic.kr/p/2jFXuZU]

[/url]


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## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> Well, at least you were able to complete it before the cruise industry shut down.
> 
> If that would happen to be your last cruise for awhile, at least to would have been a good one. (Mine was to Antarctica!) On what ship did you sail?



Well, while you weren't directing that question to me - I thought that I'd chip in anyway.

We finished our 7 day Western Caribbean in late February. We had a great time! Much better than we expected given the huge size of the Vista Class ships. While others complained about crowds, we seldom ran into that issue. We did spend a good amount of time on the balcony or relaxing on the Serenity Deck. Or, just strolling around and being amazed by the size and cleanliness of that ship. 

We sailed on the Carnival Vista, out of Galveston. Had a cove balcony on that trip. Now the wife is spoiled and insists that is the only way to go. Very private, low, and near the water. The other ship that does the Eastern Caribbean with Key West (the itinerary I want to sail) doesn't have the cove balconies (is it the Freedom?).
Quandary.

Anyway, if they had a booking for November, we'd be on it. Without a doubt.


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## railiner

Dakota 400 said:


> Well, at least you were able to complete it before the cruise industry shut down.
> 
> If that would happen to be your last cruise for awhile, at least to would have been a good one. (Mine was to Antarctica!) On what ship did you sail?


We were on the last cruise of Hurtigruten's splendid hybrid expedition ship, Roald Amundsen, before the pandemic shut everything down. It was supposed to last 17 nights, but we got a 'bonus' extension of nine more nights, trying to find a port to accept us...it's a long story, but in a nutshell, we had a wonderful cruise, and no one on our ship, passenger's or crew got sick. Unfortunately, when they tried to resume operations recently, they did not fare as well....well covered in the news.


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## railiner

me_little_me said:


> Correct. That's why I didn't link it with cruise ships. It doesn't cruise. Basically, it's like the old fashioned transportation in the days before transatlantic air service. Mostly, it does straight port to/from port from one port in a country without intermediate stops in as short a reasonable time as it can. So, transatlantic US to UK is 7 days vs as much as twice that on cruise ships. You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.
> 
> So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.
> 
> It actually would be a better counterpart to Amtrak than the cruise lines would be. Transportation with amenities rather than amenities with transport.


Actually, the Queen Mary 2 was conceived and built as a "hybrid" cross between an ocean liner and a cruise ship. Since she began operations, she has always split her annual schedule about half between "crossings" and cruises. In recent years, she has reduced the number of crossings somewhat in favor of more or longer cruises. One of the attributes that makes her an ocean liner, is her capability of doing the New York - Southampton run in just five days. But since those that just want speed will instead fly, she has lengthened her crossings to 7 or 8 days (with a Continent stop), since most doing the crossing want to enjoy the experience a bit longer. She also saves a huge amount of fuel by slowing down. She relies now on just her diesel powerplants, and only uses her thirsty gas turbines for emergency extra speed for storm evasion, or medical evacuation purposes.

As for Cunard's on board experience...I agree that it is by far the most 'formal' line at sea, today...but...that is exactly what most of Cunard's partisans are looking for...a very traditional maritime experience...and in that, nobody does it better....


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## noflyzone

me_little_me said:


> Correct. That's why I didn't link it with cruise ships. It doesn't cruise. Basically, it's like the old fashioned transportation in the days before transatlantic air service. Mostly, it does straight port to/from port from one port in a country without intermediate stops in as short a reasonable time as it can. So, transatlantic US to UK is 7 days vs as much as twice that on cruise ships. You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.
> 
> So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.
> 
> It actually would be a better counterpart to Amtrak than the cruise lines would be. Transportation with amenities rather than amenities with transport.


\

I've been on a number of crossings on QM2 and take exception to your stereotypical comments about: ...a bunch of old people...,elevator music concerts...,and unemployed college lecturers. It sounds like you have never been on a Cunard ship but have assumed so much. Granted, there are no rock climbing walls, waterslides, racetracks, etc. for 'entertainment'. No drunks partying during spring break, no incessant rock music blasting away 24 hours a day,etc. I have seen a cross mix of people of all ages, no one flashing their wealth, and typically, lecturers such as a National Geographic explorer talking about his adventures. I find that fascinating.
So if it is not your cup of tea, I suggest you stick to a more 'fun' type of cruise. I won't criticize you and I won't make gross generalizations about your choices.


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## Barb Stout

me_little_me said:


> So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.


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## Barb Stout

That sounds fun to me, although I would fail both the rich part and the dressing up part.


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## Barb Stout

Ever since the young Thunberg crossed the Atlantic on a ship (no, not a cruise ship, but whatever), I have thought either her way or a cruise ship might be fun. But I am prone to motion sickness on buses and as a passenger in cars, especially on curvey mountain roads and some of the very few times I was on a boat/ship on a large body of water. Would any cruises next to a shoreline be the same with regard to seasickness as crossing the ocean? How do they compare in that regard? I wouldn't want to try a cross-ocean ship trip without having a way to get back to land if any arising seasickness couldn't be dealt with properly.


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## tgstubbs1

How about a NW cruise, like Seattle to Skagway? At least in the right season.


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## railiner

Barb Stout said:


> Ever since the young Thunberg crossed the Atlantic on a ship (no, not a cruise ship, but whatever), I have thought either her way or a cruise ship might be fun. But I am prone to motion sickness on buses and as a passenger in cars, especially on curvey mountain roads and some of the very few times I was on a boat/ship on a large body of water. Would any cruises next to a shoreline be the same with regard to seasickness as crossing the ocean? How do they compare in that regard? I wouldn't want to try a cross-ocean ship trip without having a way to get back to land if any arising seasickness couldn't be dealt with properly.


Predicting weather and sea condition's is never going to be 100%. Sometimes a transoceanic crossing can be as smooth as a lake, other times really rough. Even a short crossing like the Irish Sea can be very rough. Most people that are prone to motion sickness can prevent it, by taking meclizine starting a day or two before embarking. It is not as strong as dramamine, but does not make you nearly as drowsy.

If you still are concerned, you can always take a riverboat cruise on the inland waterways. They go thru nice areas, and not likely to cause seasickness. The only problem is they cost more than twice as much per day, as a typical ocean cruise...


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## noflyzone

railiner said:


> Predicting weather and sea condition's is never going to be 100%. Sometimes a transoceanic crossing can be as smooth as a lake, other times really rough. Even a short crossing like the Irish Sea can be very rough. Most people that are prone to motion sickness can prevent it, by taking meclizine starting a day or two before embarking. It is not as strong as dramamine, but does not make you nearly as drowsy.
> 
> If you still are concerned, you can always take a riverboat cruise on the inland waterways. They go thru nice areas, and not likely to cause seasickness. The only problem is they cost more than twice as much per day, as a typical ocean cruise...




There are also many other seasick remedies that are non-medicinal. I've used sea bands (accupressure on the wrists) , eat a large dill pickle or a green apple. Each has been very effective for me. I rarely get seasick but have had nausea on a transatlantic trip crossing the north sea on the QM2. The QM2 was built for such crossings and she is quite safe und sturdy under such circumstances. Generally though, cruise ships are very stable and most people have no problems.


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## Dakota 400

me_little_me said:


> You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.



It's true, during the in-season for European trips, QM2 does sail many crossings of the pond. Even then, there often is scheduled a short July 4th cruise from New York that features a stop, probably in Boston, for the fireworks. Sometimes, a short New England/Canada cruise will also be scheduled for the Summer months.

Other times of the year, all three of the Queens are engaged in cruises. Queen Elizabeth has had at least one partial season in Alaska and was scheduled for 2020.



me_little_me said:


> t would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners



I sailed on QM2 during a November Caribbean cruise from New York. The on-board experience was much like any other Caribbean cruise on which I have sailed. There were 2 or 3 formal nights where a sport coat/tie for a gentleman was appropriate dress. Some wore more formal attire, but they were in the minority. (I do understand--have not experienced it--that the trans-Atlantic crossings are more "formal" for the evening.)

QM2 is a lovely ship.


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## Dakota 400

railiner said:


> We were on the last cruise of Hurtigruten's splendid hybrid expedition ship, Roald Amundsen,



Ah, the Hurtigruten! I know you had a splendid experience! I have wanted to sail on one of their ships in Norway since 1980 and have yet to do so.


----------



## Dakota 400

Barb Stout said:


> Would any cruises next to a shoreline be the same with regard to seasickness as crossing the ocean? How do they compare in that regard



Has another poster said, there's no guarantee what King Neptune has planned for anyone sailing on his ocean. I have witnessed a cruise guest or two start to become "queasy" and the ship has yet to sail very far from the pier.

My remedy to protect from seasickness is to keep one's stomach full. In my opinion, there has to be a reason why cruise lines keep plentiful food available during embarkation even well past "normal lunch time". Then. usually, immediately after Muster Drill, food availability resumes. 



tgstubbs1 said:


> How about a NW cruise, like Seattle to Skagway? At least in the right season.



An Inside Passage Alaskan cruise is a good suggestion for Barb Stout. There is, though, a small stretch of water that is open to the Pacific Ocean and not sheltered by various islands. That stretch can sometimes be "bumpy".


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## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Well, while you weren't directing that question to me - I thought that I'd chip in anyway.



Hey! The more the merrier!

Interesting that you had praise for the Cove Balcony. I have wondered about that when Carnival first introduced it on some of their ships. What did you see when you sat on your deck chair on the Balcony? Did you see the ocean? Or, did you see sky and no ocean?

I had a Cove Balcony on QM2 and found that the solid steel railing was so high that the only view that I had while sitting was that of sky. I had to be standing to see anything horizontally.


----------



## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> Hey! The more the merrier!
> 
> Interesting that you had praise for the Cove Balcony. I have wondered about that when Carnival first introduced it on some of their ships. What did you see when you sat on your deck chair on the Balcony? Did you see the ocean? Or, did you see sky and no ocean?
> 
> I had a Cove Balcony on QM2 and found that the solid steel railing was so high that the only view that I had while sitting was that of sky. I had to be standing to see anything horizontally.


Since I don't have a web hosting spot to upload photos to yet, I'll have to defer to the many, many pictures already online or You Tube videos that specifically address the cove balcony. We could see straight out to the horizon when seated. They are on deck two, so you are very close to the water. The sound of the ship cutting through the water is audible, and you do get some spray on your balcony - even in fairly calm seas. The wooden rail obscured my wife's view while seated, but I could see over it easily. The seclusion and privacy is very welcome. With the exception of a narrow strip along the edge of the divider door, you don't see your neighbor. Most of the balconies are under the keels of the lifeboats, but I specifically selected the open spot under where the gangway came in on the starboard side. That gave us a little more sunlight on the balcony, and an upward view - but since it was below an area where there is normally no pedestrian traffic, we had plenty of privacy too. The typical dislikes from others were the salt spray and the shade from the lifeboats. We didn't have either complaint. We kept a face towel out there to wipe the rail and chairs down. We had slightly more direct sunlight than others, but when not moving that wasn't always a blessing in the southern Caribbean (Belize, Roatan).


----------



## me_little_me

Barb Stout said:


> Ever since the young Thunberg crossed the Atlantic on a ship (no, not a cruise ship, but whatever), I have thought either her way or a cruise ship might be fun. But I am prone to motion sickness on buses and as a passenger in cars, especially on curvey mountain roads and some of the very few times I was on a boat/ship on a large body of water. Would any cruises next to a shoreline be the same with regard to seasickness as crossing the ocean? How do they compare in that regard? I wouldn't want to try a cross-ocean ship trip without having a way to get back to land if any arising seasickness couldn't be dealt with properly.


Modern ships have built-in stabilizers to minimize the rolling and the seasickness. Given that, some people still get seasick and, if the waves are high, even I have felt queasy. My wife was worried about cruises so our first trip was a short one to the Bahamas out of Charleston. After that we did a transatlantic and, while it was bumpier for a few days, we had a little queasiness but did not get sick and soon either the sea calmed or we got our sea legs and had no further trouble for the rest of the trip.


----------



## me_little_me

noflyzone said:


> \
> 
> I've been on a number of crossings on QM2 and take exception to your stereotypical comments about: ...a bunch of old people...,elevator music concerts...,and unemployed college lecturers. It sounds like you have never been on a Cunard ship but have assumed so much. Granted, there are no rock climbing walls, waterslides, racetracks, etc. for 'entertainment'. No drunks partying during spring break, no incessant rock music blasting away 24 hours a day,etc. I have seen a cross mix of people of all ages, no one flashing their wealth, and typically, lecturers such as a National Geographic explorer talking about his adventures. I find that fascinating.
> So if it is not your cup of tea, I suggest you stick to a more 'fun' type of cruise. I won't criticize you and I won't make gross generalizations about your choices.


Lighten up. We had reserved one trip but canceled it. That was about 10 years ago. I carefully looked into it at the time because we had picked the QM2 precisely because it was a short return (after a two week outgoing trip on Celebrity and 2 weeks in Scotland visiting friends). We love to dance but the QM2 apparently did not have rock and roll dancing at that time and for all nights , "gentlemen were requested to wear jackets and ties" and we NEVER do formal nights when that is a requirement. Their entertainment, while interesting, was quite limited and I can only take so many lectures from those professors even if they are like Professor Jones, the guy that chased the Ark. As to rich people, all kidding aside, it seemed there was a lot of amenities reserved for those in the more expensive cabins vs what one finds on a typical cruise ship.

I admit that they had surprisingly reasonable room prices for the "great unwashed" and I guess they stopped keeping the third class passengers from boarding the lifeboats before the first class ones (Hint: another joke) since the White Star Line (which merged with Cunard) made that movie about the iceberg.

Rock music blasting away 24 hours a day? Only if it is from the '60s! Which ship is that? We're on our way!


----------



## Barb Stout

railiner said:


> Predicting weather and sea condition's is never going to be 100%. Sometimes a transoceanic crossing can be as smooth as a lake, other times really rough. Even a short crossing like the Irish Sea can be very rough. Most people that are prone to motion sickness can prevent it, by taking meclizine starting a day or two before embarking. It is not as strong as dramamine, but does not make you nearly as drowsy.
> 
> If you still are concerned, you can always take a riverboat cruise on the inland waterways. They go thru nice areas, and not likely to cause seasickness. The only problem is they cost more than twice as much per day, as a typical ocean cruise...


Yes, I have taken a few river boat cruises and just LOVED them!


----------



## Asher

noflyzone said:


> \
> 
> I've been on a number of crossings on QM2 and take exception to your stereotypical comments about: ...a bunch of old people...,elevator music concerts...,and unemployed college lecturers. It sounds like you have never been on a Cunard ship but have assumed so much. Granted, there are no rock climbing walls, waterslides, racetracks, etc. for 'entertainment'. No drunks partying during spring break, no incessant rock music blasting away 24 hours a day,etc. I have seen a cross mix of people of all ages, no one flashing their wealth, and typically, lecturers such as a National Geographic explorer talking about his adventures. I find that fascinating.
> So if it is not your cup of tea, I suggest you stick to a more 'fun' type of cruise. I won't criticize you and I won't make gross generalizations about your choices.



Keeping with its legacy as a traditional, Old World ocean *liner*, Southampton-based *Cunard Line* is one of the only *luxury cruise lines* to offer secluded dining areas for select passengers, meaning guests staying in standard staterooms dine in a different restaurant than passengers staying in suites.

What's that called, Segregation. Or is it just to keep the riff raff from mingling
.


----------



## WWW

tgstubbs1 said:


> How about a NW cruise, like Seattle to Skagway? At least in the right season.



Therein lies the big promotional question about that "INSIDE PASSAGE" ?
There is the Canadian Inside Passage north of Vancouver (Campbell River Narrows) that links in with the Alaska Passage.
Cruise ships departing Seattle take the Ocean route around Vancouver Island and join the Alaska Inside Passage south of Ketchikan.
Cruise ships departing Vancouver use the Canadian really narrow Inside Passage getting to that open ocean point meeting Alaska.
This is tied in with that USA PVSA requirement of a Canadian port call originating at Seattle.

Alaska waters are rather calm most of the time - inside passage predominately - the passage on the Pacific Ocean side of Vancouver
Island is and can be the harry one depending on seasonal weather. If taking the one-way trips from Vancouver to Seward (port of Anchorage)
the area north of Glacier Bay adjacent to Hubbard Glacier is again back in open water not sheltered by the inside passage islands.
Port stops at Icy Strait Point Skagway (Haines) Juneau and Ketchikan are well sheltered - the Port call at Sitka requires a short transit
in open Ocean.

For more detailed discussion join the forum at Cruisecritic.com specifically: Norwegian Cruise Line

The big cruise lines in Alaska are Holland America - Princess and Norwegian 
All are on a Covid 19 virus hiatus till maybe spring of 2021

Railroading - At Skagway is the White Pass and Yukon a must do !!! LINK: Book Alaska Shore Excursions with White Pass & Yukon Route Railway
Arrival at Seward or Whittier catch the Alaska RR for travel to Anchorage and Fairbanks LINK: Alaska Railroad | Alaskan Tours & Vacations | Train Packages
Don't miss this either !
Most all of the Alaska RR trips are in the daylight except the shoulder spring fall events.

Have had 11 cruise trips to Alaska and looking forward to next year to resume the adventure.
Platinum Plus on Norwegian


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## railiner

anumberone said:


> Keeping with its legacy as a traditional, Old World ocean *liner*, Southampton-based *Cunard Line* is one of the only *luxury cruise lines* to offer secluded dining areas for select passengers, meaning guests staying in standard staterooms dine in a different restaurant than passengers staying in suites.
> 
> What's that called, Segregation. Or is it just to keep the riff raff from mingling
> .



Hardly.

First of all, Cunard is not what is widely considered a "luxury cruise line", in the industry. It is a "premium main stream line", that offers a wide selection of cabin categories. There is no more "steerage class" geared to carrying poor immigrants. While your category of cabin selection determines which of the main dining rooms you are assigned, and the top levels do have an exclusive lounge and sun deck, the rest of the ship's facilities are shared by all passenger's...the theater, the planetarium, the gym, the library, the shops, the promenade, swimming pools, pubs, and other entertainment and activity area's. There are no more barrier's between classes, as depicted in the film, "Titanic". The buffet and the specialty restaurants are available to all.


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## Barb Stout

noflyzone said:


> There are also many other seasick remedies that are non-medicinal. I've used sea bands (accupressure on the wrists) , eat a large dill pickle or a green apple. Each has been very effective for me. I rarely get seasick but have had nausea on a transatlantic trip crossing the north sea on the QM2. The QM2 was built for such crossings and she is quite safe und sturdy under such circumstances. Generally though, cruise ships are very stable and most people have no problems.


Yes, I have used the accupressure wrist bands along with chewing ginger gum and that definitely helped when I was on a tour bus in the Peruvian Andes. With dramamine, I just fall asleep or get super groggy and miss everything.


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## Asher

Barb Stout said:


> Yes, I have used the accupressure wrist bands along with chewing ginger gum and that definitely helped when I was on a tour bus in the Peruvian Andes. With dramamine, I just fall asleep or get super groggy and miss everything.


Unless you were to experience some severe weather, which is very unlikely on a West Coast or Caribbean cruise, you will not have a tendency to get sick like you may on a bus ride in the Andes. I've always taken a dramidine the first night on a small fishing boat to help get to sleep and have never gotten sick the next day regardless of sea conditions.


----------



## Ziv

Railiner, your comment about the difficulty of making accurate predictions for transoceanic crossings is apt, and it reminded me of a time 20 years or so ago when I emailed the BBC weather department and asked if I was missing the extended forecast page. I was going to be booking a flight to the UK and needed to know whether the weather was going to be good enough to walk the South Downs way in comfort. If not, I was going to revel in the cold and go for a snowy walk in Scotland and I needed to make my hotel reservations. The BBC has the extended forecast now, but it didn't have it back then. I expected to get a canned email saying, "Look at the bottom left and click on the &%$# link there." Instead I got a very well written, cogent email apparently from the director of weather forecasting (probably by his assistant, but it was nicely done) at the BBC. The Right Honorable Sir Mallory Blythe Tolliver III KCMG DSc * was kind enough to share with me that due to the four main atmospheric drivers of weather in the UK, (Maritime winds from the west, Arctic winds from the north, continental winds from the east and tropical winds from the south) combined with the impact of the North Atlantic Drift, it was a bloody crapshoot just getting the weather forecast right for the weekend by tea time on Thursday. Not in so many words mind you, but that was the underlying message in his email.
Now we have extended forecasts for weeks in advance for the UK. I wonder if they are noticeably more accurate than they were in Sir Tolliver's tenure. I have my doubts.

*I can't actually remember the gentlemans name, so I entered a name of similar gravitas.




railiner said:


> Predicting weather and sea condition's is never going to be 100%. Sometimes a transoceanic crossing can be as smooth as a lake, other times really rough. ...


----------



## WWW

It is all in your head - if you can stand (or sit) on an Amtrak train ride - the ride on a cruise ship is remarkably stable unless you are
flaunting a surf ride on a hurricane wave which ain't happening this year because of the virus.
Thousand foot long cruise ships are not corks floating around in a bath tub.
You can push the extremes of the ride being on the top deck forward - otherwise being in the mid ship atrium promenade is one
of the more stable least movement areas and the Captain of the ship is not piloting his ship into the eye of the tiger storm.
YES there are rouge waves - a bump in the road (ah er sea) compared to heavy RR freight traffic causing an unsettled effect on level track.

/s/ 
railiner said: 
Predicting weather and sea condition's is never going to be 100%. Sometimes a transoceanic crossing can be as smooth as a lake, other times really rough. ...
/s/

Went to Europe on a 600 foot troop steamer July '61 the ocean was just like a sheet of glass - not a ripple 
Came back in February '64 and someone ripped the rug from the ocean bottom with gale force winds - - -
fasten your seat belt one is in for a bumpy ride - military vessels are not built for comfort as the huge cruise ships are.

If susceptible to motion sickness - do take care - plan your cruise with care for destination and seasonal time of the year.


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## MARC Rider

Barb Stout said:


> That sounds fun to me, although I would fail both the rich part and the dressing up part.


From what I've read, only a couple of the dinners are "formal," and if you're a man, you don't need a tux, you can get away with a dark suit and regular tie. Not sure of how the "formal" dress code works for women's wear.


----------



## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Since I don't have a web hosting spot to upload photos to yet, I'll have to defer to the many, many pictures already online or You Tube videos that specifically address the cove balcony. We could see straight out to the horizon when seated. They are on deck two, so you are very close to the water. The sound of the ship cutting through the water is audible, and you do get some spray on your balcony - even in fairly calm seas. The wooden rail obscured my wife's view while seated, but I could see over it easily. The seclusion and privacy is very welcome. With the exception of a narrow strip along the edge of the divider door, you don't see your neighbor. Most of the balconies are under the keels of the lifeboats, but I specifically selected the open spot under where the gangway came in on the starboard side. That gave us a little more sunlight on the balcony, and an upward view - but since it was below an area where there is normally no pedestrian traffic, we had plenty of privacy too. The typical dislikes from others were the salt spray and the shade from the lifeboats. We didn't have either complaint. We kept a face towel out there to wipe the rail and chairs down. We had slightly more direct sunlight than others, but when not moving that wasn't always a blessing in the southern Caribbean (Belize, Roatan).



Thanks for answering my post. Your description of the Cove Balcony is what I have thought it might be. 

Needing to wipe down the balcony railing due to salt spray is something that I have not had to due, but, it's accurate that a residue of salt does form even on railings much higher in the superstructure. The most irritating situation to me regarding needing to wipe down balcony furniture was when I had an aft balcony stateroom on the Westerdam. Salt was not the issue. Soot was! My Cabin Steward wiped the area down twice a day, but in between, I was the "butler/maid/whatever".


----------



## DryCreek

Some folks feel "closed-in" by the surrounding hull. I didn't find it bothersome at all. Like I mentioned, my wife absolutely loved it. The sound of the passing ocean, excellent visibility of the marine life, and the fresh salt air. Plus, it was much better than the inside cabin we had on our first cruise, and it's an awesome upgrade from an Ocean View room too.

Turning the backs of your chairs to the direction of travel helps eliminate the salt buildup on the seating area.






And sometimes you get to see really cool things too:




That was the local ferry (Ultramar Lines) that picked up an excursion to the mainland from Cozumel.


----------



## pennyk

Barb Stout said:


> Yes, I have used the accupressure wrist bands along with chewing ginger gum and that definitely helped when I was on a tour bus in the Peruvian Andes. With dramamine, I just fall asleep or get super groggy and miss everything.


I get car sick in the mountains or when in the back seat of a car, but I am ok on a train facing forward. I use accupressure wrist bands on cruise ships and I am not sure they help me that much even though I wore them during the entire cruise. During my last 2 cruises (partial Panama Canal from Fort Lauderdale and full Panama Canal from LA to Ft. Lauderdale), I took a half dose of generic bonine daily, and that seemed to help me. The dose was so small that I was able to consume alcohol without negative effects. I avoided meds during my previous cruises to and from Alaska, and got sick once, even though I was wearing the wrist bands, eating ginger chews and green apples.

I cannot imagine I will take another ocean cruise and certainly not transatlantic. I am hoping some day to take a Mississippi River cruise.


----------



## WWW

That motion on a cruise ship - well just like being on a train - when it leaves the station - if you don't have a rookie engineer at the throttle
the subtle departure as the motion begins and you just begun to feel it - as long as the track was not laid through a Hollywood amusement park
it will be like that until you meet a curve in the track or slack between the knuckle couplers catches up.
On a cruise ship the departure from the Pier is even more subtle - all of a sudden you are clear of the harbor and out to sea and you haven't
noticed anything unusual unless maybe you have had one too many of those drinks with the brelly in it setting your own rhythm in motion
contrary to the ships. Waves of 10 to 15 feet just tickle the bottom of the hull - at 20 to 25 occasionally bump the ship - watch you don't spill
that brelly drink. Now unless you are venturing forth into a storm of sorts everything will be business as usual the ships stabilizers kick in and
a smooth cruise is straight forward - none of that leaning into the curve of the track or crossing the siding junction block in the track.
And like the train with a seasoned engineer pulling into the station is pretty much uneventful except the trip is over - the cruise ship simply
slides next to the Pier and lines are secured and gangway is attached and you walk back onto terra firma.

Pack that motion sickness medicine - but put if off if you can to experience the smooth ride - stay away from windows where you can the
motion of the ship - the only place I have been sea sick was on the SS Badger a car ferry from Manitowoc WI to Lundington MI - I looked
out the port hole window saw Lake Michigan rise and fall and that was it too much motion - My travels to Europe on a troop steamer an
old salt crewman told me his secret is keep the belly full of food - one is a firm full object and not subject to the rolling tides of the stomach !
Too much exaggeration perhaps but try to control the motion on your own terms. Sometimes medicines may make things worse.


----------



## Dakota 400

Friends-261 said:


> My travels to Europe on a troop steamer an
> old salt crewman told me his secret is keep the belly full of food - one is a firm full object and not subject to the rolling tides of the stomach !



See Post #55 on this thread that I made. I said the same thing.


----------



## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Some folks feel "closed-in" by the surrounding hull. I didn't find it bothersome at all. Like I mentioned, my wife absolutely loved it.



I appreciate seeing the photos you posted. Thank you. I can see why your wife loved it and, yes, it surely would be better than an Inside or just an Outside Cabin. If you booked a balcony cabin on a deck above where the Cove Balconies are located, I predict your wife would love it even more.


----------



## MARC Rider

Friends-261 said:


> stay away from windows where you can the
> motion of the ship - the only place I have been sea sick was on the SS Badger a car ferry from Manitowoc WI to Lundington MI - I looked
> out the port hole window saw Lake Michigan rise and fall and that was it too much motion -



That actually makes sense. I was once on the Block Island Ferry, and when I was inside gazing out of a window, I noticed that the horizon was slowly rocking up and down. Then I started feeling a little queasy. When I got up and walked outside, the queasiness went away. The sea wasn't even all that rough or anything.


----------



## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> I appreciate seeing the photos you posted. Thank you. I can see why your wife loved it and, yes, it surely would be better than an Inside or just an Outside Cabin. If you booked a balcony cabin on a deck above where the Cove Balconies are located, I predict your wife would love it even more.


Actually, no.
While we were strolling the Promenade Deck, she looked up at those stacks of other balcony rooms. She was aghast when she realized that they had absolutely no privacy! She said it was like staring at a row of apartments. Since they taper to the top, you could see just about every balcony - and what was going on there.

Like me, she enjoyed hearing the bow cut through the waves, and watching the flying fish skitter from crest to crest.

Another benefit is for those sensitive to motion. We're not, but I have heard lots of our neighbors remark about how much better they felt midship and on a lower deck.


----------



## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> Actually, no.
> While we were strolling the Promenade Deck, she looked up at those stacks of other balcony rooms. She was aghast when she realized that they had absolutely no privacy! She said it was like staring at a row of apartments. Since they taper to the top, you could see just about every balcony - and what was going on there.
> 
> Like me, she enjoyed hearing the bow cut through the waves, and watching the flying fish skitter from crest to crest.
> 
> Another benefit is for those sensitive to motion. We're not, but I have heard lots of our neighbors remark about how much better they felt midship and on a lower deck.



Not all ships have balcony cabins arranged in such a way that they taper towards the upper decks. I agree with you wife; I try to avoid booking such a situation as well.

No question in any type of sea conditions that the most comfortable ride is on the lowest passenger deck possible and as mid-ships as possible. There's an old cliche that you may have heard: "The more you pay, the more you sway." The more expensive cabins are those higher in the superstructure. 

I can attest to that chiche. During January, I had a cabin on Deck 15 aboard MSC Meraviglia. I'm a good sailor; not prone to seasickness. But, I have never had a cabin on such a high deck and I did notice more motion than usual, even though the seas were not very active most days of the cruise.


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## railiner

Dakota 400 said:


> No question in any type of sea conditions that the most comfortable ride is on the lowest passenger deck possible and as mid-ships as possible.


I agree. And an inside cabin is better than an outside, for the same reason. The closest you can get to the ship's center of gravity, the less motion you will feel from the three axis's. Ever notice where the majority of ships locate their medical center?


----------



## Ferroequinologist

me_little_me said:


> Correct. That's why I didn't link it with cruise ships. It doesn't cruise. Basically, it's like the old fashioned transportation in the days before transatlantic air service. Mostly, it does straight port to/from port from one port in a country without intermediate stops in as short a reasonable time as it can. So, transatlantic US to UK is 7 days vs as much as twice that on cruise ships. You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.
> 
> So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.
> 
> It actually would be a better counterpart to Amtrak than the cruise lines would be. Transportation with amenities rather than amenities with transport.





me_little_me said:


> Correct. That's why I didn't link it with cruise ships. It doesn't cruise. Basically, it's like the old fashioned transportation in the days before transatlantic air service. Mostly, it does straight port to/from port from one port in a country without intermediate stops in as short a reasonable time as it can. So, transatlantic US to UK is 7 days vs as much as twice that on cruise ships. You don't take Cunard for leisurely traveling and for on-board circuses.
> 
> So when Ferroequinologist corrected me by commenting that Cunard runs crossings, he is correct but I didn't consider them as a "cruise ship" because that's not how people think of cruise ships. In fact, we canceled a Cunard return of a European trip because, in our minds, it would have been no fun but just a bunch of old people showing how rich they are by dressing up at nightly formal dinners and going to elevator music concerts and boring lectures by unemployed college lecturers about the sites one actually sees when riding trains.
> 
> It actually would be a better counterpart to Amtrak than the cruise lines would be. Transportation with amenities rather than amenities with transport.



I couldn't agree with you less. First of all, most of Cunard's speakers are really interesting, not boring. On a crossing a couple of years ago John McCarthy was a featured speaker. If you don't know him, he was a journalist who was held hostage in Beirut for several years. He spoke to a full house on two occasions and had everyone sitting on the edge of their seats. There are lots of other interesting lecturers who talk about a wide variety of subjects. As for the concerts, they vary. None play 'elevator music'. I remember a very accomplished classical guitarist, several very gifted concert pianists. On a QE2 crossing in the 1980s Ray Bradbury spoke. The Queen Mary also has a planetarium with interesting programs. It's true that there is more formality than on most lines - and that's precisely why I and many others flock to Cunard. The same way I used to enjoy the formality of dining cars (mostly pre Amtrak), I like dressing up and having an extended dinner with passengers from different countries. It's not for everyone and that's OK. There are enough of us, at least for now, to keep it going.


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## Ferroequinologist

me_little_me said:


> Lighten up. We had reserved one trip but canceled it. That was about 10 years ago. I carefully looked into it at the time because we had picked the QM2 precisely because it was a short return (after a two week outgoing trip on Celebrity and 2 weeks in Scotland visiting friends). We love to dance but the QM2 apparently did not have rock and roll dancing at that time and for all nights , "gentlemen were requested to wear jackets and ties" and we NEVER do formal nights when that is a requirement. Their entertainment, while interesting, was quite limited and I can only take so many lectures from those professors even if they are like Professor Jones, the guy that chased the Ark. As to rich people, all kidding aside, it seemed there was a lot of amenities reserved for those in the more expensive cabins vs what one finds on a typical cruise ship.
> 
> I admit that they had surprisingly reasonable room prices for the "great unwashed" and I guess they stopped keeping the third class passengers from boarding the lifeboats before the first class ones (Hint: another joke) since the White Star Line (which merged with Cunard) made that movie about the iceberg.
> 
> Rock music blasting away 24 hours a day? Only if it is from the '60s! Which ship is that? We're on our way!


Thank God you won't find it on Cunard.


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## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> Not all ships have balcony cabins arranged in such a way that they taper towards the upper decks. I agree with you wife; I try to avoid booking such a situation as well.


Well, I guess that I should have qualified my response better. In the price range our budget allows, the ships tend to taper upwards.
Yes, our budget has us constrained to Carnival. Despite their party-hardy reputation, you can still have an adult experience if you carefully choose your itinerary and dates of travel.
If I had the spare bucks, I would absolutely book Cunard or MSC (when they're not crashing into the piers or river cruisers - Armonia/Opera). I don't mind a more formal dining experience - it highlights the luxury of travel.


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## Dakota 400

DryCreek said:


> our budget has us constrained to Carnival. Despite their party-hardy reputation, you can still have an adult experience if you carefully choose your itinerary and dates of travel.



I have experienced many cruises during my life and 4 of them have been on Carnival. My first Carnival cruise was a Spring break cruise on Freedom. When I told my friends about my booking, they thought I had lost my mind. It was a great cruise! While there were many college young people aboard, they were having a good time without being obnoxious. When my tablemates failed to appear for dinner one evening, 3 young women who were Seniors and anticipating their graduation were seated at the table next to mine. Seeing that I was alone, they invited me, at least 4 decades older than they were, to join them for dinner. It was a delightful dinner with interesting conversation among us. Carnival gets a "bad rap" that is undeserved. I have seen more "out of control" behavior from older guests during cruises on Holland America Line than I saw on Carnival Freedom. 



DryCreek said:


> f I had the spare bucks, I would absolutely book Cunard or MSC



Cunard is expensive, but check out MSC. They have some very attractive pricing that is competitive with Carnival, Royal Caribbean, NCL. MSC has been trying to attract future bookings this Summer with some really unbelievable rates.


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## DryCreek

Dakota 400 said:


> Cunard is expensive, but check out MSC. They have some very attractive pricing that is competitive with Carnival, Royal Caribbean, NCL. MSC has been trying to attract future bookings this Summer with some really unbelievable rates.



I guess that I should mention that I also prefer to sail from Galveston. There is Royal Caribbean and Disney that also sail from there.


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## TrackWalker

Sixteen years ago the DW had to drag me kicking and screaming to our first cruise (Holland America Lines) to Alaska from Vancouver, BC.

Now she has to drag me kicking and screaming to disembark the ships and go home.


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## jiml

TrackWalker said:


> Sixteen years ago the DW had to drag me kicking and screaming to our first cruise (Holland America Lines) to Alaska from Vancouver, BC.
> 
> Now she has to drag me kicking and screaming to disembark the ships and go home.
> 
> View attachment 20728


That is a great picture!


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