# Several dining questions



## Sbburkett (Apr 20, 2015)

Haven’t been on Amtrak in almost ten years and will be taking a trip on the Silver Meteor near the end of July.

I’ve heard about the change of dining service for the Silver Star, and I wanted to make sure this change ONLY affected the Silver Star. The Silver Meteor (which is what we are booked on) will still have the dining car, correct?

(I noticed an alert symbol next to the Silver Meteor, but it looks like only the Star is affected by this).

Secondly, for those passengers in sleeping accommodations who have their meals included, what exactly does a “meal” consist of? For example, does it include a drink, does it include a “side” at breakfast? Does it include dessert at dinner?

Finally, I’ve heard about being able to have your meal in your room (a roomette in this case). How do you ask for this or arrange for this? Just mention it to the car’s attendant?

Thanks for the help!


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## rrdude (Apr 20, 2015)

Sbburkett said:


> Haven’t been on Amtrak in almost ten years and will be taking a trip on the Silver Meteor near the end of July.
> 
> I’ve heard about the change of dining service for the Silver Star, and I wanted to make sure this change ONLY affected the Silver Star. The Silver Meteor (which is what we are booked on) will still have the dining car, correct?
> 
> ...


"YES" it's only the STAR for the test.

Meal is entree, salad, bread, dessert, non-alc beverage. Breakfast you can get a side of meat, no charge, with your entree, if desired, etc.

Anything on the menu is included for Meteor Sleeper pax. (pay for alc)

LOWER your expectations, the food and SERVICE (Paper, plastic, plastic, plastic, plastic, plastic, almost non of which is recycled) compared to ten years ago has gone downhill IMHO, by at least 50%

"YES" to get a meal served "upstairs", (in your room) ask your Train Attendant-Sleeper, (TAS) as early as you can, before the next meal, or as soon as you get on the train, and tip accordingly.


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## niemi24s (Apr 20, 2015)

Here is a link to the Amtrak menus: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241305537990 As far as I know, the Silver Meteor will still have a diner car and your Sleeping Car Attendant (SCA) can bring meals to you room if you contact him/her after boarding.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2015)

Thanks for the information. I had found the menu on-line but just wasn't sure what was included.

Sorry to hear the quality of the dining experience has gone downhill in the last ten years--riding in the dining car while riding was one of the highlights of the train part of the trip.


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## andersone (Apr 20, 2015)

Unlike some others I find dining still above average,,,,,

Don't forget to tip the dining staff as appropriate

enjoy the ride,,, no TSA in your future


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## zepherdude (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Thanks for the information. I had found the menu on-line but just wasn't sure what was included.
> 
> Sorry to hear the quality of the dining experience has gone downhill in the last ten years--riding in the dining car while riding was one of the highlights of the train part of the trip.


I find the food quality as well. The plastic ware, table coverings and frsh flowers on the table. All cost cutting measures. The experience is still quality to me.The experience of dining on the train is still quality with presentations still high.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 20, 2015)

I'll be eating in my lower level roomette, due to disabilities making stairs difficult for me. Should I ask that my meals be delivered at a certain time, or have them delivered when the TSA (?) can get them to me?

Thanks


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## zephyr17 (Apr 20, 2015)

Tell the attendant when you board, and work out the times with him. Like many things, it kind of depends on the attendant.


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## yarrow (Apr 20, 2015)

andersone said:


> Unlike some others I find dining still above average,,,,,


what average? are we measuring against hot lunch in my grade school cafeteria in the 1950's or against amtrak meal service of a few years ago which included regional specialties(shrimp and grits on the crescent, bison meat loaf on the eb), different menus for each train and differing offerings from day to day on the same train, an interesting menu in the ppc, real dishes, real desserts. what do you take as your benchmark?


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## Bierboy (Apr 20, 2015)

andersone said:


> Unlike some others I find dining still above average,,,,,
> 
> Don't forget to tip the dining staff as appropriate


As do I...we enjoy the Amtrak dining experience as part of the overal fun....


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2015)

Bierboy said:


> andersone said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike some others I find dining still above average,,,,,
> ...


It's what you make it. I make it fun.

Don't forget tipping is optional. Not necessarily appropriate and certainly not required. Those are well paying positions, not minimum wage as most land based eateries are. So, don't forget, there is nothing wrong with NOT tipping.


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## andersone (Apr 20, 2015)

One man's meat is another man's poison,,,,

In my opinion a meal has three components

The meal itself

The staff who prepare and deliver it

The setting for the restaurant

Amtrak is NOT Commander's Palace in NOLA, which is about as good as I have ever had

Amtrak is not Applebee's where I would condemn my ex wife to eat for eternity (wait, that would be too cruel)

Amtrak is below the former and way above the latter

hence above average for me

Yes the regional stuff was great, no argument from me there

But the railway steak is above average, as are most of the biff and muffy entrees She Who Must Be Obeyed enjoys

I only get plates and silverware about half the time

The staff who have served me are at about 80%, well above average

Need I discuss the virtues of the setting? I think not

hence above average


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Don't forget tipping is optional. Not necessarily appropriate and certainly not required. Those are well paying positions, not minimum wage as most land based eateries are. So, don't forget, there is nothing wrong with NOT tipping.


Yes, they are well paid positions compared to land based eateries. But they are also not comparable jobs to land based eateries. In most cases land based waiter/waitresses have bus boys to help clear tables. They only work 1 or 2 meals; not 3 meals. That means that their shift is much shorter than an Amtrak workers who is basically up from 6 AM through 10 to 11 PM. And then the land based worker goes home to friends & family while the Amtrak worker heads to a tiny compartment on the train or a hotel room.

And those land based workers never have to worry about the restaurant suddenly bouncing over a switch while they're carrying 4 hot coffee's. Finally, they also don't have to get training on how to safely evacuate a train and what to do in an emergency.

So again, there really is no comparison between a land based food service worker and an Amtrak food service worker.


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## SarahZ (Apr 20, 2015)

Alan nailed it. I tip for good service, regardless of how much someone makes, whether that be a server, my hairdresser, or a bartender. Their income doesn't factor into my decision to tip.


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2015)

Sarah nailed it too. I couldn't care less what the food service folks make, that's between them and Amtrak. If they provide me with a quality service, they get a tip.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 20, 2015)

I side with those who tip for good service.

Any who wish to not tip can always use the cafe car?


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## acelafan (Apr 20, 2015)

I was recently on the Crescent and Silver Star. Both dining cars had truly exceptional helpful and friendly staff. Extra tips from me as they definitely deserved it.


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## Sauve850 (Apr 20, 2015)

I take several train trips each year. I rarely ever get a meal in my room as I enjoy the experience of the dining car. Have met some terrific people and great staff. I always tip and am generous if I get real good service which is hit and miss. I like breakfast and dinner desserts the best. The rest of the food is marginal to me.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2015)

Tipping on Amtrak is not required. It's okay to NOT tip.

Military personal work very hard for me. Risking their life for me. Sleeping in the dirt far away from home and their families for months on end. At a pay rate far less than an Amtrak diner employee.

I thank them for their service, but I don't tip them. It's not required.

Cyber bullying posters into tipping on Amtrak is sad.


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## SarahZ (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Tipping on Amtrak is not required. It's okay to NOT tip.
> 
> Military personal work very hard for me. Risking their life for me. Sleeping in the dirt far away from home and their families for months on end. At a pay rate far less than an Amtrak diner employee.
> 
> ...


Nobody said anyone has to tip. We simply explained why we tip.

You have an odd definition of "bullying". :mellow:


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> I side with those who tip for good service.
> 
> Any who wish to not tip can always use the cafe car?


I don't have to eat in the cafe car just because I chose not to tip in the diner.


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## MikefromCrete (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Tipping on Amtrak is not required. It's okay to NOT tip.
> 
> Military personal work very hard for me. Risking their life for me. Sleeping in the dirt far away from home and their families for months on end. At a pay rate far less than an Amtrak diner employee.
> 
> ...



Quite an odd comparison. But, yeah, you don't have to tip. Nobody here is forcing you to do anything.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Tipping on Amtrak is not required. It's okay to NOT tip.
> 
> Cyber bullying posters into tipping on Amtrak is sad.


That's correct. "Tipping" is never _required_. There are just some situations in life where it is appropriate. One may or may not _choose_ to do so.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 20, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> You have an odd definition of "bullying". :mellow:


I fear we'd _wimp_ out as bullys. None of the comments seemed '_bulling_' enough.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> I don't have to eat in the cafe car just because I chose not to tip in the diner.


True. One could pack a picnic basket.


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2015)

Guest said:


> Tipping on Amtrak is not required. It's okay to NOT tip.


It's a good thing nobody said that it was.



> Cyber bullying posters into tipping on Amtrak is sad.


That's not what's happening here.


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## D.P. Roberts (Apr 20, 2015)

I agree with the guest poster in many respects. True, we don't tip soldiers fighting overseas. We also don't tip policemen or firefighters, who also perform really important services for us. More perplexingly, we tip cab drivers but not bus drivers, airline pilots, or flight attendants, all of whom provide similar transportation services. We tip hairdressers (but not if he/she is the salon owner), but we don't tip doctors or nurses. Or auto mechanics. We tip pizza delivery drivers, but not the UPS or Fedex guys (but you can give your mail delivery person a Christmas gift). We don't tip restaurant employees who run the restaurants, or those who prepare the food - just those who carry it over to our tables.

Simply put, we Americans don't tip because we've received good service; we tip because it's customary in America to tip in certain social situations. There's no logic to it, except that many industries (such as restaurants) have traditionally allowed low wages for service employees that would be illegal in other professions. In most other countries, those same service people are fairly compensated by their employers, and tipping is not the custom.

Are Amtrak dining car employees restaurant employees who deserve tips, or are they fairly-compensated professionals who don't? IMHO, there's no logic to the way Americans tip, so there's no way to apply the "logic" of tipping to a train's dining car. Do whatever you want.


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## neroden (Apr 20, 2015)

D.P. Roberts said:


> Simply put, we Americans don't tip because we've received good service; we tip because it's customary in America to tip in certain social situations. There's no logic to it, except that many industries (such as restaurants) have traditionally allowed low wages for service employees that would be illegal in other professions.


This is correct. The treatment of "traditionally tipped professions" under law is quite outrageous in the US, with "tipped" waitresses having a federal minimum wage of only $2.13 / hour. Supposedly the wages + tips are supposed to exceed the regular minimum wage ($7.25/hour) and if they don't the employer is supposed to make up the difference, but the employer *never* makes up the difference. So on land, waitresses genuinely need the "tips" as pay.
Most states have similar rules, unfortunately. (A few states such as Nevada actually require that waitresses be paid minimum wage.)

This is why it is genuinely inappropriate not to tip waitresses in restaurants on land in the US (unless you feel that they really didn't do their job at all and should be fired). The tips are really their base pay; if they came in to work and did the absolute minimum, they deserve those tips. In this situation, not tipping is like refusing to pay someone wages for the work they did -- it's a very severe thing to do, to be reserved for extreme circumstances.



> In most other countries, those same service people are fairly compensated by their employers, and tipping is not the custom.
> 
> Are Amtrak dining car employees restaurant employees who deserve tips, or are they fairly-compensated professionals who don't?


I would say that they are fairly-compensated professionals who don't *need* tips. They are paid well above minimum wage; the tips are NOT their base pay. It's just fine to NOT tip them, even if they did their job.
It's fine to give extra tips for exemplary service -- the way you would tip in Europe, which is traditionally 5% for "above and beyond" service.

It's inappropriate to give the sort of substantial tip you give a typical American waitress, which is an "I'm sorry your employer doesn't pay you properly" payment.


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## andersone (Apr 21, 2015)

Mother used to say if you can't afford the tip you can't afford the meal.

I don't tip the position, I tip the service.

My good bud and I share a meal each we, taking turns to pay for the meal. By tradition the odd man out pays a $5 tip regardless of location. You don't think the car hop at Sonic doesn't know our vehicles ? You don't think the girls at Subway like to see us appear?

To me the world is about doing good things for good folks who do good things.

You think I don't remember the Christmas Eve in 1964 when an unnamed resident of a third floor apartment building left an envelope labeled "paperboy" on their mailbox with a dollar in it for the twelve year old kid who carried the Chicago Tribune up there every day?


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## yarrow (Apr 21, 2015)

D.P. Roberts said:


> I agree with the guest poster in many respects. True, we don't tip soldiers fighting overseas. We also don't tip policemen or firefighters, who also perform really important services for us. More perplexingly, we tip cab drivers but not bus drivers, airline pilots, or flight attendants, all of whom provide similar transportation services. We tip hairdressers (but not if he/she is the salon owner), but we don't tip doctors or nurses. Or auto mechanics. We tip pizza delivery drivers, but not the UPS or Fedex guys (but you can give your mail delivery person a Christmas gift). We don't tip restaurant employees who run the restaurants, or those who prepare the food - just those who carry it over to our tables.
> 
> Simply put, we Americans don't tip because we've received good service; we tip because it's customary in America to tip in certain social situations. There's no logic to it, except that many industries (such as restaurants) have traditionally allowed low wages for service employees that would be illegal in other professions. In most other countries, those same service people are fairly compensated by their employers, and tipping is not the custom.
> 
> Are Amtrak dining car employees restaurant employees who deserve tips, or are they fairly-compensated professionals who don't? IMHO, there's no logic to the way Americans tip, so there's no way to apply the "logic" of tipping to a train's dining car. Do whatever you want.


very well put.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 21, 2015)

Some excellent posts in this thread, I especially can relate to andersone's post since I was a paperboy and waiter back in ancient times!

As the old saying goes, "walk a mile in their shoes" and you might feel different about service jobs and tipping!


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## yarrow (Apr 21, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Some excellent posts in this thread, I especially can relate to andersone's post since I was a paperboy and waiter back in ancient times!
> 
> As the old saying goes, "walk a mile in their shoes" and you might feel different about service jobs and tipping!


i was a paper boy too but i still regard tipping most amtrak employees when that person is making a decent wage for a job that ain't rocket science as akin to extortion. i generally don't participate. i just tell the person "thank you very much, that was great"


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## SP&S (Apr 21, 2015)

andersone said:


> Mother used to say if you can't afford the tip you can't afford the meal.
> 
> I don't tip the position, I tip the service.
> 
> ...


Indeed!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2015)

I will routinely empty the coin compartment of my car to use for tips in the diner. A few more coins for dinner than for breakfast and lunch. It's a great way to get rid of pennies.


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## ScottRu (Apr 21, 2015)

Mark Twain, "You can judge a man by how he treats a waiter."


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## Ryan (Apr 21, 2015)

yarrow said:


> i was a paper boy too but i still regard tipping most amtrak employees when that person is making a decent wage for a job that ain't rocket science as akin to extortion. i generally don't participate. i just tell the person "thank you very much, that was great"


Your definition of "extortion" must vary widely from the one I'm familiar with.


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## SarahZ (Apr 22, 2015)

yarrow said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Some excellent posts in this thread, I especially can relate to andersone's post since I was a paperboy and waiter back in ancient times!
> ...


It's not extortion if no one is threatening you and/or forcing you to give them money. Tipping is voluntary.


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## JayPea (Apr 22, 2015)

Tipping should be one's own choice. I tip at meals the same I do in restaurants as I add up the price of the meal and give the same % tip as I would in a sit-down restaurant. It is MY choice to do so as it should be everyone else's choice to tip (or not). Base tips on YOUR experiences and YOUR personal choices. I don't see anyone trying to bully anyone into tipping within this thread either.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2015)

Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence of servers doing disturbing things to the food of passengers who do not tip?


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## Ryan (Apr 22, 2015)

I've never seen any here.


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## rrdude (Apr 22, 2015)

Here, I'll step up and "Be the Bully" and tell the Guest_Guest, that unless he/she has crappy, rotten, service, from a surly employee, he/she SHOULD TIP. Do you have to? Nope.

Jim said it best, "....Walk a mile in someone else's shoes...."

If I'm an your waiter, and I give you good or excellent service, and you "stiff" me, or worse yet, drop a couple of pennies on the table, I am EAGERLY waiting for you to return. And I hope you are hungry, because it's gonna take an HOUR for your omelette, French Toast, or WHATEVER it is you ordered. (unless I need the table, then I'm gonna make sure you are out wicked fast)

Surprisingly, I dislike the whole practice of tipping in the USA too, much prefer the "European tradition". But it is what it is. Having lived off tips while working on Amtrak as a kid, I know that giving EXTRA SPECIAL service can be quite profitable.

It's one thing not to tip if the service sucked, the waiter was rude or uncaring, or you are simply short on cash. It's quite another not to tip, just cause you are.....................EDITED


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## PRR 60 (Apr 22, 2015)

I'd be curious to know how or if server tips are shared with the kitchen people. Preparing food in a dining car kitchen has to be at least as tough a job as serving, if not tougher. I would hope that at least a portion of the server tips are pooled and given to the kitchen staff. Since the tips on Amtrak are provided in cash (even those few which are added to a credit card slip*), I wonder if any of that is shared.

_*My understanding is that even tips added to a credit card slip are provided to the server in cash by the LSA out of the dining car cash. _


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## rrdude (Apr 22, 2015)

PRR 60 said:


> I'd be curious to know how or if server tips are shared with the kitchen people. Preparing food in a dining car kitchen has to be at least as tough a job as serving, if not tougher. I would hope that at least a portion of the server tips are pooled and given to the kitchen staff. Since the tips on Amtrak are provided in cash (even those few which are added to a credit card slip*), I wonder if any of that is shared.
> 
> _*My understanding is that even tips added to a credit card slip are provided to the server in cash by the LSA out of the dining car cash. _


Don't know how it is today, and in the past, it was varied by crews. But _normally_ the wait staff either gave the kitchen a set amount each, or pooled together, and gave a percentage to the kitchen. It was more of a "Thank You" or courtesy, than a a bump in the wages of the kitchen crew.

Have told the story before, but I'll relate it again here. One of my first trips waiting tables on the Broadway Limited, I "neglected" to tip out the kitchen upon arrival in NYC. Well, I learned FAST why on the return trip, my breakfast orders (eggs & toast) were taking 30-45 minutes to come out of the kitchen. Chalk THAT ONE up to experience.


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## Everydaymatters (Apr 22, 2015)

About paying with credit cards, twice in the past couple of months the tip has not been on my credit card statement. I don't understand that. I wanted to give the server a tip. Has anyone had that experience on Amtrak?


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 22, 2015)

Everydaymatters said:


> About paying with credit cards, twice in the past couple of months the tip has not been on my credit card statement. I don't understand that. I wanted to give the server a tip. Has anyone had that experience on Amtrak?


Don't know about Amtrak, but I know tips do not always show up online when the purchase is first posted, but my tips have always get included before the statement comes out.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Apr 22, 2015)

Everydaymatters said:


> About paying with credit cards, twice in the past couple of months the tip has not been on my credit card statement. I don't understand that. I wanted to give the server a tip. Has anyone had that experience on Amtrak?


Of course, I do not know in your circumstance but all charges to your credit card appear first as "pending" and never includes any add on's such as tip while pending. Only after the charge is approved and processed does the charge actually appear in your actual charges and that figure will include all add on's including tips. Incidentally, "pending charges" are not official charges to your account. I am aware of many complaints on "trip advisor" by customers who complain that hotels have charged their credit cards estimated amounts while customer is still residing in the hotel and has not checked out. Most all hotels, etc, post those "pending" charges simply to validate the card and that charges will be within customer's credit limit.

So what questions about dining on Amtrak are there? I think we have covered the tipping issue. Just for the record, I always tip $2 for breakfast, $3 for lunch, and $5 for dinner and I assume that the tips are pooled and shared with all the dining car staff.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 22, 2015)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> So what questions about dining on Amtrak are there?


As I'm boarding the SWC (roomette) in Albuquerque around 4:30 PM, what do you think of my having written down my dinner order ahead of time, handing it to him and negotiating a time I'd like to eat, when he scans my ticket,? Then I could hand him my breakfast order when he puts my roomette into 'night mode'?

Or am I over thinking the process?


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## SarahZ (Apr 22, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > So what questions about dining on Amtrak are there?
> ...


You're overthinking it.


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## Ryan (Apr 22, 2015)

Way overthinking it.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Apr 22, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> crabby_appleton1950 said:
> 
> 
> > Tennessee Traveler said:
> ...


I agree completely with SarahZ and RyanS. I do look online at the menu before I travel (under the "Routes" section on the Amtrak website) to see what may be generally (generally because it could change a bit before the trip) available so I won't be dithering in the dining car deciding what to have and holding everyone up. But when you get on the train, if your SCA doesn't mention how dinner is handled, just ask.

Remember, one of the best things about the sleeper car is not having to worry about all the details--any question you have will be covered!


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## D.P. Roberts (Apr 22, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > So what questions about dining on Amtrak are there?
> ...


First of all, your room attendant will not be the person who scans your ticket - you'll need to wait for the conductor (or assistant conductor) to scan your ticket. Make sure that this actually happens, or you could be in danger of losing any connecting trips (if they don't scan your ticket then they think you're not onboard, and assume you won't be showing up for your remaining legs of the trip).

Secondly, it would be nice if most trains actually carried the items from the menus online. From my experience on busy summer trains, they usually run out of one of the items shortly into the first meal, or are missing them altogether.

For example, on my trip last summer on the (Empire Builder, Coast Starlight, and Southwest Chief) I was onboard for 11-12 meals where dessert is served (lunches & dinners). I was really looking forward to my favorite dessert, which was listed on the menu for all 3 trains. I never had it even once. And my favorite dinner (which was supposed to be on the EB) wasn't there either.

Honestly, there are only 4-5 choices for each meal, and if they're out of stuff you're often reduced to 2-3 choices. It's one of the reasons I recommend an early seating for meals - you're much more likely to get what you want.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2015)

rrdude said:


> If I'm an your waiter, and I give you good or excellent service, and you "stiff" me, or worse yet, drop a couple of pennies on the table, I am EAGERLY waiting for you to return. And I hope you are hungry, because it's gonna take an HOUR for your omelette, French Toast, or WHATEVER it is you ordered.


That sounds like some good anecdotal evidence of servers doing disturbing things to the food of passengers who do not tip. Intentionally making someone wait for their food longer than is necessary, is disturbing. Makes me wonder what else, even MORE disturbing a server might do because they think I 'SHOULD' tip.

Here's a tip: Non-tippers, bring your own food!

At least you will know what's in it.


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## Bjartmarr (Apr 22, 2015)

Does anybody know what the salary is for the various OBS positions? Are the various positions which include the possibility of tips (SCA, dining car server) paid about the same as those which generally don't (coach attendant, cook)?


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## neroden (Apr 22, 2015)

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/abolish-tipping_n_5991796.html

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/kentucky-restaurant-utilizes-interesting-alternative-to-1587892563

http://www.esquire.com/food-drink/restaurants/a23132/why-tipping-should-be-illegal-15603180/

Tipping as a general practice needs to end.

As for Amtrak -- pay varies but those in the tipped positions are *on average* paid as much or more as the non-tipped positions.

I tip very well for exceptional service, where the employee did something which wasn't a job requirement. (After all, Amtrak isn't paying them for that!) For instance, the extremely kind car attendant who spent a substantial amount of time digging out the ingredients lists for the dining car food for me -- he deserved to get paid for that and Amtrak sure wasn't paying him to do it. But that's different.


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## Ryan (Apr 22, 2015)

neroden said:


> Tipping as a general practice needs to end.


What business of it is yours how I spend my money? If you don't want to tip, don't. Nobody is telling you how to spend or not spend your money. The least you can do is return the favor.


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## JayPea (Apr 22, 2015)

RyanS said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> > Tipping as a general practice needs to end.
> ...


THIS!!!!!!! Especially the "The least you can do is return the favor" part. I don't care if I am the last passenger in the history of Amtrak to tip, I'm going to, based on the SERVICE and not on the salary a person makes. I would never tell anyone they should tip. My advice would be for anyone to use their own judgement and nothing more. I know I'm getting crankier in my advancing years, coming from a long proud line of males on my dad's side of the family with volcanic tempers and all, but I get increasingly annoyed by people telling ME what I should do based on THEIR experiences. When it comes to tipping unless I'm asking to borrow the money so I can pay the tip it's no one's business but my own. :angry:


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 22, 2015)

> When it comes to tipping unless I'm asking to borrow the money so I can pay the tip it's no one's business but my own.


I actually did borrow money from someone to leave a tip. I had left dinner early because I was not feeling well and when I got back to my room I remembered that I did not leave a tip and so I text one of my dining companions and ask them to leave a tip and I'd pay them back, which I did.


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## KmH (Apr 22, 2015)

Bjartmarr said:


> Does anybody know what the salary is for the various OBS positions? Are the various positions which include the possibility of tips (SCA, dining car server) paid about the same as those which generally don't (coach attendant, cook)?


http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/4493-amtrak-coach-attendants-salary/

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Amtrak-Train-Attendant-Salaries-E2912_D_KO7,22.htm


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2015)

neroden said:


> Tipping as a general practice needs to end.


People often seem to forget that we, the customers, GET something for the tipping culture: it, as a form of profit sharing, allows restaurants and other service establishments to keep open longer hours than they would otherwise. Since the hourly payroll is small, they can afford to be open during the slack hours between the meal rushes, when the income rate is low. If they had to pay the workers as much during the slack times as during the rushes, it would not be profitable to stay open during the slacks and we would all pay the price, having no or fewer services available during the slack times.

Of course, exactly none of this applies to Amtrak, which pays the service staff (relatively) high hourly wages, even for the hours the diner is closed, and nevertheless does not keep the diner open except during the rushes. For what it is worth, I tip Amtrak staff anyway, both in the dining car and in the sleeper.

Guest


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## Alice (Apr 23, 2015)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > crabby_appleton1950 said:
> ...


I do not think Crabby is overthinking this. As I recall, he will be having some or all of his meals in his room. My experience is the SCA has plenty of interruptions between taking my order and giving it to the dining car, and having that slip of paper (with first and second choices, and sometimes vague choices like "anything special or different") gives me the best shot at getting the meal I most want. I let them tell me when it is convenient, usually they will have a definite idea based on things like when they expect the kitchen to get busy or the rest of their workload, I just like to know about when it will be so I'm ready. Usually the SCA thanks me for making their job easier.

That said, Crabby, I think you are worrying too much about this trip. It will be fine no matter what. You are taking some great trains, San Diego is a wonderful place to vacation year-round, you'll sleep well enough, you won't starve, you'll have whatever help you need whether you transfer in LA or Fullerton (both beautiful and interesting depots). If you don't make the Surfliner you want, you'll make a different one. Add to that, you have a friend waiting to meet you. And I'll repeat, you are coming to San Diego, how much perfection do you expect in one life?!


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## FormerOBS (Apr 23, 2015)

Amtrak diner staff paid "even for the hours the diner is closed"??????????

Staff is paid for the hours actually worked. O.B.S. staff is paid when the diner is closed before departure when they are working taking on new stock, during preparation of the car for service, securing & cleaning the car prior to arrival, etc. Staff IS NOT paid for their rest time enroute, nor for their layover time at a distant turnaround point. They are far away from home & family. They are not able to sleep in their own bed, with their spouse, but are not compensated AT ALL for this disruption of their lives. If anybody thinks O.B.S.. staff members are paid for these times when the diner is closed, they are very much mistaken. The pay of kitchen staff is slightly higher than that of the other diner employees because their work is more specialized, and it's understood that they don't receive tips directly. Nevertheless, most diner crews have an arrangement that gives some tips to the kitchen staff.

It's true that tips aren't required, and every Amtrak O.B.S. employee knows that. There are times when you're doing your best to do a good job and give good service, no matter that you're not home for your kid's birthday, or no matter that you aren't really in the mood to be Mr. Jovial to strangers whom you'll probably never see again. That's the nature of the job, and everybody knows it's something you have to adjust to. So when a passenger acknowledges the employee's efforts by offering a gratuity, it certainly is appreciated.

I responded on the evening of the 21st, but when I hit "Post", the 'puter froze up & I couldn't get it to do anything at all till a couple hours ago. I think it's because I didn't tip the Gremlins.

Tom


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## FormerOBS (Apr 23, 2015)

Wasn't able to edit the above. Those "relatively high wages" should be kept in context. If you count all of the employee's time from the time he/she arrives at the Crew Base until released to go home, you will find a lot of unpaid hours when the employee has no ability to spend time as he prefers, and is too far away from home to participate fully in life, as others do. For example, an Auto Train employee's round trip involves about 45 hours from arrival at the Lorton crew base until release from that crew base on the third day. But that employee is paid for about 28-30 hours. These figures vary, depending on job title.

Context, Folks. Context.

"That's", as Paul Harvey said, "the rest of the story."


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2015)

The rest of the story is: Amtrak employees aren't alone in unpaid time getting to and from work, and preparing for it. There are also many other jobs that require being away from home for days. Nothing special about Amtrak employee's in that regard. Stop yer crying or find a new gig.


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## SarahZ (Apr 23, 2015)

Guest said:


> The rest of the story is: Amtrak employees aren't alone in unpaid time getting to and from work, and preparing for it. There are also many other jobs that require being away from home for days. Nothing special about Amtrak employee's in that regard. *Stop yer crying or find a new gig.*


Oh, look. It's the food service version of Godwin's Law. I was wondering when that tired phrase would show up.


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## Ryan (Apr 23, 2015)

More bold statements from an anonymous guest. Stay classy, random stranger.


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## keelhauled (Apr 23, 2015)

Alice said:


> Mystic River Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > SarahZ said:
> ...


Yeah but on the other hand the SCA is not always the one who actually scans the tickets. And besides, if he tries to "negotiate" times with the SCA while in the process of boarding he's just gonna hold up the whole line. A piece of paper is probably a good idea, but just hand it to the SCA when he comes around to introduce himself after the train has left and is on its way.


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## FormerOBS (Apr 23, 2015)

I don't think I was crying. In fact, I distinctly DO NOT recall having to wipe away any tears when I wrote that last night. I said "everybody knows it's something you have to adjust to." And I never made any complaint about not being paid for the time spent going to and from work because I don't know of anybody who is. That's something our anonymous guest brought up. I simply said the idea of inflated pay for O.B.S. employees is, in itself, an inflated notion of reality. The job is not easy, and it's not a get rich quick scheme. For the entire time I worked at Amtrak I understood that I was only being paid for about 2/3 of the time that my life was under the control of Amtrak. I accepted it and didn't complain. I'm not complaining now --- just stating the mathematics of it.

I repeat, tips are not required, but they are certainly appreciated. Don't read anything else into it.

I stayed on that job for over 25 years because I really liked it and I was good at it. I loved my co-workers and my passengers, although there were some of both who tried my patience at times. Like now.

Tom (Yes, I have a name. Don't you?)


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 23, 2015)

PANTS on FIRE!! 5 PINOCCIHOS!!!

Seriously??? Once again I'm amazed that an anonymous " Guest" bashes hard working employees that actually do the work!

And pulling made up figures out of the air such as the $100K+ per year for OBS, is either an evil troll working for the Koch Brothers, the masters of the "Big Lie", or a moron that believes crap like that that they read on the internet and hear on hate radio and tv!

Since when is $40-50K, the Average OBS compensation, an exhorbiant salary?

Even here in Low Wage Austin, Texas where 40% of the people live in poverty and have no health care, the median income is 66K+ which means 40% of the people make 80% of the money! And of course the top 10% in this country make and have 90% of the wealth, most of which is taxed as capital gains or NOT TAXED @ all!

I'm waiting on the usual suspects to support the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour ( over 50% of whom are working adults, not teenagers starting out!), or even eliminate it, which gives a person an income of over 14K a year, truly LOTS of MONEY! And as for Health care,Pensions, Sick Leave, Vacation, Holidays etc., " Let them eat Cake!"

Disclaimer: I'm one of those retired civil servants with a guaranteed pension and good health insurance, only took me 40+ years of working for less than the median income to earn it, guess I' m just one of those welfare leeches you hear about on Rush's show!

( he makes $50+ Million a year, so what he says must be true!!)


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 23, 2015)

keelhauled said:


> if he tries to "negotiate" times with the SCA while in the process of boarding he's just gonna hold up the whole line. A piece of paper is probably a good idea, but just hand it to the SCA when he comes around to introduce himself after the train has left and is on its way.


That's my idea. Somewhere I read that the SCA "orients" me to the roomette and it's features. I thought that would be the time to hand him my meal request (not during the actual boarding).


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## FormerOBS (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks, Jim.

Recently a fellow told me with a straight face that President Obama was going to pass a law (any fifth grader should be able to tell you Presidents don't pass laws and this President can't get the lawmakers to give him the time of day) that would require everybody to vote in every election. I told him in no uncertain terms how preposterous that was. He said it must be true because he heard it on the radio.

People should remember that some of these figures about compensation are distorted by a few factors. It's been said that Amtrak RR workers make more money than their counterparts in other countries. However, that compensation includes such contractually guaranteed items as health insurance, retirement, etc. Even so, Amtrak employees do contribute significantly to these things, so that the employer's contribution is far from 100%. In other countries there are government social programs that provide health care, housing, pensions, and other similar services. So it is not necessary for the Railway to provide them or pay the employee sufficiently to provide them for himself and his family. Therefore, the overseas RR employee can receive a smaller paycheck and still enjoy a similar or better quality of life.

I also agree that very hard-working people receive lower pay than many Amtrak employees. Nobody should construe my comments to imply that I think those folks' employers are justified in victimizing them that way.

As for the question about whether dining car staff do anything to "sabotage" food or slow down the service to non-tippers (possibly posed by the same unnamed guest), I'd rather just let you keep on wondering about that. Why spoil the fun by answering?

Tom


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## Mystic River Dragon (Apr 23, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> keelhauled said:
> 
> 
> > if he tries to "negotiate" times with the SCA while in the process of boarding he's just gonna hold up the whole line. A piece of paper is probably a good idea, but just hand it to the SCA when he comes around to introduce himself after the train has left and is on its way.
> ...


That does sound very sensible. I'm sorry, Crabby--I didn't realize about your eating mainly in your room. But the most important point still is to enjoy the trip and not worry! I overthink everything in "real life," but the minute I get into my roomette, I stop worrying until I get off the train again!


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## OBS (Apr 23, 2015)

Crabby- my suggestion, having worked a few sleeping cars, would be to just let him know you would like to eat in your room when he comes around and that he would probably prefer to wait and worry about your order when you are ready to eat...He can then update you as well to any changes there may be on the menu, etc...


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## SarahZ (Apr 23, 2015)

OBS said:


> Crabby- my suggestion, having worked a few sleeping cars, would be to just let him know you would like to eat in your room when he comes around and that he would probably prefer to wait and worry about your order when you are ready to eat...He can then update you as well to any changes there may be on the menu, etc...


This is why I said Crabby may be overthinking it. It wasn't meant to be a criticism.

I've heard SCAs tell disabled passengers, as they greet them, that they will come around to get their orders. The SCA sometimes has to juggle several requests to eat in-room, and (as others have mentioned) certain menu items may not be available by the time you order, so it's best to let the SCA take the wheel on this one.


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## OBS (Apr 23, 2015)

Totally agree Sarah...


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## Anderson (Apr 23, 2015)

Just a gentle reminder not to feed either the trolls or the guests who wander in and post rudely.


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## Bjartmarr (Apr 23, 2015)

KmH said:


> Bjartmarr said:
> 
> 
> > Does anybody know what the salary is for the various OBS positions? Are the various positions which include the possibility of tips (SCA, dining car server) paid about the same as those which generally don't (coach attendant, cook)?
> ...


Thank you, KmH, that's very helpful.

It's hard to translate an hourly wage into a yearly salary for a non-9-to-5 job, especially when benefits are involved.

But the takeaway that I get from the above is that compensation for OBS (exclusive of tips) is somewhere in the range that would support a decent, middle-class lifestyle.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 23, 2015)

Anderson said:


> Just a gentle reminder not to feed either the trolls or the guests who wander in and post rudely.


I did think some posts regarding tipping were "_peculiar_". :huh:

Just my _humble_ opinion. ^_^


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2015)

FormerOBS said:


> As for the question about whether dining car staff do anything to "sabotage" food or slow down the service to non-tippers (possibly posed by the same unnamed guest), *I'd rather just let you keep on wondering about that. Why spoil the fun by answering?*


Another former OBS poster, rrdude, has confirmed dining car staff do indeed "sabotage" food service to non-tippers in his post at the top of page three.



> If I'm an your waiter, and I give you good or excellent service, and you "stiff" me, or worse yet, drop a couple of pennies on the table, I am EAGERLY waiting for you to return. And I hope you are hungry, because it's gonna take an HOUR for your omelette, French Toast, or WHATEVER it is you ordered. (unless I need the table, then I'm gonna make sure you are out wicked fast)


So there's no 'wondering' about it at all. Your former OBS comrade already spoiled that fun.


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## Incredulousguest (Apr 23, 2015)

Tipping is optional? In the USA? For table service by a waiter or waitress at meal times?

To think that is so idiosyncratic, it's like saying we live in a society with no conventions and no expectations.

My advice--leave 1, or 2, or 3 dollars to the person who has just swayed back and forth in the aisle to bring you your meal, and

if the service was really good, leave more.


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## FormerOBS (Apr 23, 2015)

I'd like to propose a toast to the only person in the room who didn't know rrdude was making a joke, and speaking only for himself:

"May your meal service always be lousy, so you don't ever have to tip & can die rich & lonely."

For your tombstone: Here lies Whatshisname.

Got filthy rich

stiffing wait staff.

Good night. Sleep well.

Tom


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2015)

Remember when we asked you to make a toast?

ME NEITHER!

I tip to keep foreign objects out of my food. <---true


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## Chilliepepper (Apr 24, 2015)

To turn the conversation back, once again, to the original question asked by the OP (and to leave dead horses lying), I also had questions about dining options.

First...for the meals that are included with the sleeping car arrangements, are kids required to only order off the kids' menu? In other words, would we need to pay extra if they want to order something from the "adult" menu? Would that be calculated as the price difference between a kids' meal and an adult meal, or would we have to pay full price for an adult meal?

Second...does anyone have a sample menu, or a list including prices, of things that a person can order in the Lounge Car? I'm trying to figure out how much and what to bring on board in terms of snacks. If bringing our own snacks can result in a reduction of kids' whining and begging for a $5 single serve bag of Doritos, I'll do it. But if onboard Doritos are 75 cents and it can save me packing an extra suitcase full of snacks, I'll cough up the 75 cents.

For those who have recommended bringing snacks onboard, are there specific popular foods that are either NOT available for purchase, or that can be purchased but we're better off bringing our own due to onboard markups?

Third...I read somewhere that water and juice are generally available to sleeping car passengers. I guess that means I don't need to bring fifty bottles of water, right? (with the correct assumption that our family does not require bottled water in general, unless the tap water is nasty)

Fourth...and I hate to turn the conversation back to tipping, but (and this question is for those who DO customarily choose to tip; non-tippers need not answer) I was just wondering...for tips in the dining car, would you say to just go ahead and calculate what we would be paying based on menu prices, and tip a percentage similar to what we would do in a restaurant? (someone mentioned certain dollar amounts for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but I don't know if they were just tipping for themself as a single person, or for their entire table.)


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## Ryan (Apr 24, 2015)

Kids can eat off the adult menu at no charge:




(from the Blue Book)

I can't actually find a cafe menu online. Generally speaking, I'll bring my own snacks.

Water certainly.

I'm not touching the tipping discussion. h34r: Anything you do will be perfectly correct.


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## Chilliepepper (Apr 24, 2015)

RyanS said:


> Generally speaking, I'll bring my own snacks.
> 
> Water certainly.
> 
> I'm not touching the tipping discussion. h34r: Anything you do will be perfectly correct.


So...not that I'm you...but what snacks do you like to bring?


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## Ryan (Apr 24, 2015)

Mostly stuff for the kids, goldfish, those little applesauce packets (those are actually pretty tasty), there are some other cookie/cracker type things that she likes, fruit snacks, etc.

Honestly, the included meals in the dining car are so plentiful, I don't really have much of a need for snacking.

Re-reading, I wasn't as clear as I would like to be, "Water certainly" means that water will be available. Juice may be a little less plentiful, but I rarely drink it.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 24, 2015)

You should be able to find the cafe menu link next to the dining car menus on any of the train pages on Amtrak.com


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## rrdude (Apr 24, 2015)

"Discretion, (which I rarely show) being the better part of valor" would be wise here, but no one I know thinks I'm wise.

So........ Look a server who makes a table / patron wait for their food longer, because they are a lousy tipper, or stiffed them, or are just plain obnoxious, is also hurting them self. As long as the lousy tipper is at that table, no one else can occupy said table. It's really in the server's best interest to get that stiff seated, served, and GONE.

Making someone wait longer, or the opposite, rushing them, is one thing. "Touching" or playing with their food is quite another, and that is a line I have never, ever crossed. However, YMMV, like in this movie clip.


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## JayPea (Apr 24, 2015)

To answer the tipping question, I do calculate what the price of the meal would be and tip accordingly. Others merely tip a set amount. How you do it, and I can't stress this enough, is up to you. There is no right way nor wrong way to tip.


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## rrdude (Apr 24, 2015)

That's EXACTLY what I do too. I use the "If I was paying cash for this" what would my bill have been?

It's important to note that whenever using a GIFT CARD, or if you get a COMPLIMENTARY meal, you should figure out what the meal "would have cost" and tip on that amount, NOT the actual amount at the bottom of your check Many diners simply forget to do this, when using a gift card, or discount card, and only tip on the amount at the bottom of the check.

Many of our restaurant customers have their POS receiptsprogrammed to print "Suggested Tip amounts" at the 15%, 18%, and 20% levels.

Of course tipping is an individual thing, and I *absolutely* tip based on the quality, attentiveness, and overall service that my waiter/waitress provides me.

I won't reduce my tip because of a crying baby, or high prices, or an obnoxious patron. (other than me)


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## KmH (Apr 24, 2015)

Chilliepepper said:


> Second...does anyone have a sample menu, or a list including prices, of things that a person can order in the Lounge Car? I'm trying to figure out how much and what to bring on board in terms of snacks. If bringing our own snacks can result in a reduction of kids' whining and begging for a $5 single serve bag of Doritos, I'll do it. But if onboard Doritos are 75 cents and it can save me packing an extra suitcase full of snacks, I'll cough up the 75 cents.
> 
> Third...I read somewhere that water and juice are generally available to sleeping car passengers. I guess that means I don't need to bring fifty bottles of water, right?


Amtrak has menus on their web site. Just go to the Route page of the route you want - Silver Service/Palmetto - scroll down to, and click on

Silver Service Café Menu

There is a limit to how many bottles of water are provided with a sleeper berth, and it's my understanding the availability of juice can vary by sleeper car attendant.

From the Amtrak Service Standards Manual:



> • Two bottles of spring water per person per trip (additional water may be purchased in the
> 
> Café/Lounge Car).


Amtrak's web site includes bottled water as a sleeper berth amenity, but not juice.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241210576303

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241210576259


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 24, 2015)

Hope you found all the info helpful, it's good stuff.

One thing that some of our members do when it comes to tipping is get a supply of $1 coins and $2 bills ( stole idea from Penny and GG-1) instead of having to use bigger bills, ask for change or have so many ones. This becomes a trade mark of sorts and I've been told that the OBS like this and that it helps them remember you even long after your first trip with them. ( smiles and courtesy are also appreciated! You catch more flies with honey than vinegar!)

As for snacks in the cafe, as you'll notice when you look up the menu, prices are high and the quality and nutrition levels are low!

Of course it depends on what your kids like and you allow, but you could possibly take some nuts, trail mix,granola type snack bars, low fat peanut butter or cheese crackers and as Ryan said, Goldfish and apple sauce! Dried fruit like raisins, cranberries etc are good as is fresh fruit! Those little juice containers with straws that kids use in school lunches and they serve in schools would be a good idea too.Sugary stuff and energy drinks are not good, kids have enough energy already!

Your SCA will provide botttled water and ice upon request, the juice in the sleeping cars unfortunately is limited to apple juice and really bad orange juice! ( Cranberry is usually available in the Diner).

As for the kids menu in the Diner, the Hot Dogs are surprisingly good ( Lots of us eat them for Lunch, adults can order if they have enough in stock), the Mac n' Cheese not so good! They used to have individual pizzas but they weren't too good either!

While you're in the Lounge(s) waiting for your trains, depending on the time of day, and the Lounge ( the LA and Philadelphia Lounges have the best stuff!), sweet rolls, pretzels,goldfish,juices, sodas and water are available.

Enjoy the trip, memories are made of this!!


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## FormerOBS (Apr 24, 2015)

In regard to snacks, here's something to remember:

Popcorn is often considered more nutritious than many other snack items. If you bring it aboard, you'll have to get the pre-popped kind, since employees are not permitted to put items in the microwave if they didn't come from the Amtrak Commissary. This rule comes from FDA, not Amtrak. Employees won't be able to microwave any other items that didn't come from the Amtrak Commissary either, so don't bother to ask. Similarly, Amtrak can supply ice, but employees are not allowed to put non-Amtrak items in Amtrak refrigerators. Another rule that originated from FDA.

Tom


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 24, 2015)

I find the DiGiorno Nuclear Pizzas offered in the Cafe to be pretty good and not too outrageously overpriced. I'll even pick them up from time to time at Walmart to have on hand at home for a quick snack or light meal. If you are in Sleeper you likely will not be venturing to the Cafe as the Dining Car meals will keep you plenty full, especially since you get minimal exercise on board.


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## KmH (Apr 24, 2015)

Yep. FDA food rules, not Amtrak rules.

I eat popcorn pretty much every other day.

So I did a test - popped some corn, added my usual little bit of butter/salt, put the popped corn in a 1 gallon ziplock bag, and ate some a couple of days later.

While not warm it was still crispy/crunchy.

It is kind of bulky, but I will pack a 1 gallon bag of home made popcorn next week to munch when I'm westbound on the CZ & northbound CS.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 24, 2015)

RyanS said:


> I can't actually find a cafe menu online.


National Cafe Menu


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## SarahZ (Apr 24, 2015)

I tip based on the approximate cost of the meal, but some people use the 2/3/4 method. ($2 for breakfast, $3 for lunch, and $4 for dinner.)


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## Thomas64 (Apr 24, 2015)

> It's really in the server's best interest to get that stiff seated, served, and GONE.


I never really thought about that point of view. I always tip for prompt service but I rarely get quickly seated, served, and GONE. Takes way too long for my taste.

With this new information I'm tempted to experiment with not tipping to see if I get the quicker service I prefer. I guess the alternative would be to ASK the server for quick service, which it sounds like an alternative available to the server. "Look, we don't like hanging out in here. We just want to eat and go. Can you put a rush on our order? There will be a handsome tip in for you, if you do."

I'll try it both ways and report back with my findings.


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## rrdude (Apr 24, 2015)

Thomas64 said:


> > It's really in the server's best interest to get that stiff seated, served, and GONE.
> 
> 
> I never really thought about that point of view. I always tip for prompt service but I rarely get quickly seated, served, and GONE. Takes way too long for my taste.
> ...


*EXCEPT, * With Amtrak's method of staggered seating, it really doesn't matter as much if you can turn a table any faster, 'cause the next "call" to fill the diner is when EVERY table is open, and reset. If, OTOH, you have a line, or people waiting for a table, then by all means you want to "turn and burn" your tables as fast as you can. As a server, if I flip my four assigned tables 3.5 times, versus only twice, I'm _almost_ doubling my tip potential.


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## KmH (Apr 24, 2015)

Yep. When I waited tables in a dinner restaurant, 'campers' who stayed all night at a table that I could normally 'turn' 3 or 4 times were not appreciated - unless they tipped 3 or 4 times the going rate back.

Restaurant management didn't appreciate the 'campers' either.


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## Palmetto (Apr 24, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> I tip based on the approximate cost of the meal, but some people use the 2/3/4 method. ($2 for breakfast, $3 for lunch, and $4 for dinner.)


That's a good way to do it, too! And I like the idea of using $2 bills, although: do banks still have them? Here's one thing I miss: the tuna fish salad sandwiches. I could eat tuna salad every day of the week!


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## pennyk (Apr 24, 2015)

Palmetto said:


> And I like the idea of using $2 bills, although: do banks still have them?


Yes, banks have $2 bills, but not all the time. You may have to order them from your bank in advance.


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## PRR 60 (Apr 24, 2015)

Some of those "stiffs" may be new to Amtrak and not know that tipping is customary. They may equate Amtrak dining car service to airline meal service and assume that, like flight attendants, the Amtrak servers are not tipped. Note that there is nothing on the menu that suggests, for example, "gratuities for good service are welcome." I would not assume that everyone who does not leave a tip is doing so intentionally.

On Pullman Rail Journey trips, tipping is a one-shot deal of a suggested $20 per person, each way, with no separate tipping at meal times. For me, that kind of formal, pooled tip arrangement would preferable to the tip here, tip there, tip everywhere Amtrak way.


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## Palmetto (Apr 24, 2015)

Are you saying the Amtrak dining car folks do not pool their tips, then?


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 24, 2015)

Good point Bill but since the SCAs and Food Service folks work different cars its not possible on LD Trains.( however in most Diners the Food Service crew shares tips with the Kitchen crew!)

IMO the one who gets the short end of the stuck is the Cafe LSA who gets mostly small change for tips, has to stand in a small cramped space from morning to night ( in the dungeon on Superliners!). Coach attendants very seldom get tips but most of them don't do much and aren't around a lot! ( there are exceptions of course)


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## Thomas64 (Apr 24, 2015)

PRR 60 said:


> On Pullman Rail Journey trips, tipping is a one-shot deal of a suggested $20 per person, each way, with no separate tipping at meal times. For me, that kind of formal, pooled tip arrangement would preferable to the tip here, tip there, tip everywhere Amtrak way.


I'd prefer that, too. Like the cruise industry does. Tips are automatically added. If you want to do it another way you can opt out, do it your own way or not at all. I like this because when I'm on vacation I don't even want to THINK about tipping. Let alone the hassle of getting single bills or 2$ bills, which I have heard SCA do not really appreciate "cute" factor they have.


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## FormerOBS (Apr 24, 2015)

As for coach attendants and tips, I was told that on a recent Auto Train trip, one coach attendant was available during a meal period to work the five full Superliner coaches. That one person had to serve over 30 dinners and 40 breakfast (or was it 40 dinners and over 30 breakfasts?) to coach passengers who couldn't make it to the diner. I don't know whether all (or any) of those passengers tipped that attendant, but I can tell you from experience that coach tips are often abysmal.

Diner crews generally pool tips and give a somewhat lesser share to the kitchen staff. I don't know whether there are exceptions. Tips for lounge LSA's and SCA's are not pooled.

Tom


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## KmH (Apr 24, 2015)

According to Amtrak's Service Standards manual a single Train Attendant Coach is only required to attend to up 4 coaches and only up to 150 coach passengers.

Five full coach cars would be staffed by 3 coach attendants up to 375 coach passengers. A 4th attendant would be added for 376 or more coach passengers

The hassle of getting $1 or $2 bills?

Why wouldn't a SCA appreciate a cash tip that included small denomination bills as much as one that include a $5, $10, or a $20 bills.

A $2 bill spends just as easily as any other bill denomination.

If I were to see an SCA react to several $1 or $2 bills as part of a cash gratuity I was giving, I would ask the SCA if the small denomination bills were a bother/hassle.

If they said yes, I would have them return the $1 and $2 bills to me and I would apologize for the bother/hassle of tipping with small denomination bills.

The SCA could keep whatever was left of my gratuity, if anything, and I would communicate the incident to Amtrak Customer Service after my trip.


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## Thomas64 (Apr 24, 2015)

KmH said:


> The hassle of getting $1 or $2 bills?
> 
> Why wouldn't a SCA appreciate a cash tip that included small denomination bills as much as one that include a $5, $10, or a $20 bills.
> 
> A $2 bill spends just as easily as any other bill denomination.


I meant a hassle for ME! I'd have to go to the bank! Between automatic deposit and automatic bill pay, I haven't been to my bank in 6 years. And, I sure don't miss going there.


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## the_traveler (Apr 24, 2015)

A direct quote from your post above states:



Thomas64 said:


> Let alone the *hassle of getting single bills or 2$ bills, which I have heard SCA do not really appreciate "cute" factor they have*.


I take that statement as the SCA not you.


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## Thomas64 (Apr 24, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> A direct quote from your post above states:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad. I've heard some staff do not appreciate the cutesy 2 dollar bills. That should have been a separate sentence. But, I still hate my bank! :angry2:


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2015)

KmH said:


> According to Amtrak's Service Standards manual a single Train Attendant Coach is only required to attend to up 4 coaches and only up to 150 coach passengers.
> 
> Five full coach cars would be staffed by 3 coach attendants up to 375 coach passengers. A 4th attendant would be added for 376 or more coach passengers


The AutoTrain operates almost like a separate company from the rest of Amtrak. The employees on the AT have a different contract than the rest of the OBS on other Amtrak trains. In fact, an employee transferring to/from the AT loses their seniority because of this.

The AT doesn't use the normal eTicketing system that the rest of Amtrak does and it even has its own special reservations center; although one can still book via the normal 800 number.

So I'm not sure if the Service Standards Manual (SSM) actually applies to the AT. Even if it does, there could very well be exceptions & variations to things in the SSM for the AT.


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## KmH (Apr 24, 2015)

"Meals are included in the price of all Auto Train tickets, no matter which class you travel in."

So it's no wonder coach car attendants on the Auto Train would have to deliver a lot of meals to coach passengers at their seats.

That alone would cause a need for more coach attendants than Amtrak's other trains.

Though coach passengers on any Amtrak LD train can request having dining car meals delivered to them at their seat, I bet most non AT coach car pax don't know that, where most AT coach pax would.

So it's not likely 5 _full_ coach cars (close to or at 385 pax?) can be effective attended to by 1 coach attendant.

No doubt it's possible one or more assigned coach attendants were no shows causing "I was told that on a recent Auto Train trip, one coach attendant was available during a meal period to work the five full Superliner coaches."


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## FormerOBS (Apr 24, 2015)

I don't know the reason for the short staffing. It's possible that it was due to a mark-off by another employee on short notice. Maybe staffing was not revised when the fifth coach was added. The consist change was newly implemented when I retired. There was a period of trying to readjust work schedules & assignments during the transition period, and I don't know how it was resolved. It's also possible that current A-T management simply has made a change in service standards as they apply to the Auto Train. I've been told current high-level Auto Train management had little practical onboard experience prior to assuming their present positions.


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## shelzp (Apr 25, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > So what questions about dining on Amtrak are there?
> ...


They're used to bringing meals to people so no worries there. They just about always bring food to the person in the H room. When I meet the attendant I mention that I prefer to eat in my room and discuss times with them. It ain't like I'm in a rush.  I have had an attendant or two try to discourage me from eating in my room but I request they bring it to me anyway and give them a tip each time they pick the tray up after I'm done. I used to include the meal tips with my room tip but have found it works better to give it after each meal.


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## NW cannonball (Apr 26, 2015)

If you have a sleeper ticket with meals included - you can dine in the diner (what I like to do) or can have your meal delivered to your room.

Your option. No question.

If you choose to tip, then when you use singles, $2 bills or $5 bills - who cares? Maybe some greedy critturs would hope you would use $5 bills - because the rounding up gets more money.


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## snvboy (Apr 26, 2015)

I don't mind tipping, but I do mind servers that aren't "hip" to tipping. Two scenarios in point, both have happened on Amtrak about as frequently as elsewhere:

1) Out of small bills, and asking server to break at $20. Usually I'll get a split of wine with dinner or lunch if I need to break a bill, but not at breakfast. Getting the server, who was sitting in a booth yakking it up with the rest of the staff, to break my $20 was akin to asking a teenager to write a term paper. Change was made and with just as much attitude. Since either she didn't realize her tip was coming out of this change, or just didn't care to be bothered in the middle of her **** session, most of that change stayed in my pocket.

2) Not giving tip-friendly change. If my bill is $23, and I pay with 2x $20, don't give me 1x $10, 1x $5 and 2x $1. You've now made it very difficult for me to give you a $4 tip. And when I ask for better change…. see scenario #1 above.


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## andersone (Apr 26, 2015)

Father had a simple way to calculate a a 15% tep

Assume the tab is $20

Ten percent is $2

half of that is $1

hence a 15% tip becomes $3


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 26, 2015)

andersone said:


> Father had a simple way to calculate a a 15% tep
> 
> Assume the tab is $20
> 
> ...


That's how I do it too


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## George K (Apr 26, 2015)

Reading around various sites, it seems that 20% is becoming the norm when it comes to restaurants.

True?


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 26, 2015)

snvboy said:


> 2) Not giving tip-friendly change. If my bill is $23, and I pay with 2x $20, don't give me 1x $10, 1x $5 and 2x $1. You've now made it very difficult for me to give you a $4 tip. And when I ask for better change…. see scenario #1 above.


I plan to get a supply of ones and fives for tipping prior to my trip for meals, red caps, etc..


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## George K (Apr 26, 2015)

I know we're venturing off-topic, but Crabby's post made me wonder....what's an appropriate tip for a red cap who rides you out of CUS to the cab stand with your luggage and your wife?


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## NW cannonball (Apr 26, 2015)

snvboy said:


> I don't mind tipping, but I do mind servers that aren't "hip" to tipping. Two scenarios in point, both have happened on Amtrak about as frequently as elsewhere:
> 
> 1) Out of small bills, and asking server to break at $20. Usually I'll get a split of wine with dinner or lunch if I need to break a bill, but not at breakfast. Getting the server, who was sitting in a booth yakking it up with the rest of the staff, to break my $20 was akin to asking a teenager to write a term paper. Change was made and with just as much attitude. Since either she didn't realize her tip was coming out of this change, or just didn't care to be bothered in the middle of her **** session, most of that change stayed in my pocket.
> 
> 2) Not giving tip-friendly change. If my bill is $23, and I pay with 2x $20, don't give me 1x $10, 1x $5 and 2x $1. You've now made it very difficult for me to give you a $4 tip. And when I ask for better change…. see scenario #1 above.


Yup. I have no problem, when servers wait (heh heh --waiters- heh) and don't give me appropriate tip-size change - - Sorry sweetheart - zero tip -- like "where's my change?" thank you good bye.

I do carry 20 or 30 ones twos and fives, but if the wait-staff assumes that all the change from a $50 is theirs and don't ask - well - I ask for the exact change , they get zero tip, and I never tip at that place ever again.

so there.

Never happens on Amtrak, though. No worries there. 2 ones or 4 twos or a five or two covers all the tips needed.

The places that assume the change from a Benji or two is theirs to keep - I never go there, and if I do, always exact cash (let those ripoffers see my credit card -- now way)


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## KmH (Apr 26, 2015)

George K said:


> I know we're venturing off-topic, but Crabby's post made me wonder....what's an appropriate tip for a red cap who rides you out of CUS to the cab stand with your luggage and your wife?


I would give $5.


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## George K (Apr 26, 2015)

That's what I did.


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## NW cannonball (Apr 26, 2015)

KmH said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> > I know we're venturing off-topic, but Crabby's post made me wonder....what's an appropriate tip for a red cap who rides you out of CUS to the cab stand with your luggage and your wife?
> ...


Seems about right to me


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## Palmetto (Apr 26, 2015)

George K said:


> Reading around various sites, it seems that 20% is becoming the norm when it comes to restaurants.
> 
> True?


That's what I hear. I also have gotten restaurant tabs that list the tip amount for your bill for 15%, 18% and 20%.


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## the_traveler (Apr 26, 2015)

The server doesn't handle money (change, bills, etc...) - only the LSA can. They may sometimes take your $10 bill to the LSA, but the LSA will make the change.


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## Railroad Bill (Apr 26, 2015)

Just to add our 2 cents (or $2 bills)  to the conversations. We usually get as many two dollar bills that the bank has available and plenty of ones and fives to cover tips on the train. Our standard is usually $3-4 for breakfast, $4-5 for lunch and $5-6 for supper if service is good and server is friendly. There have only been a few times when we have not left something....slow service, attitude problem of the server;;wrong order.. etc.

Many times our meal companions do not leave tips.. a couple of instances where they did not realize tipping was appropriate and were educated by our actions. As we contend, "you can't take it with you", so spread the wealth around and do something nice for someone who is working hard to make it in life.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Apr 26, 2015)

KmH said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> > I know we're venturing off-topic, but Crabby's post made me wonder....what's an appropriate tip for a red cap who rides you out of CUS to the cab stand with your luggage and your wife?
> ...


Although I've read somewhere that it's $1 or $2 per bag, I think $5 total would be more appropriate.


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## andersone (Apr 26, 2015)

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I take one big trip once a year. As soon as we get home from the last one I start an envelope putting $20 a week away, trying to making a good number of the content ones and fives. When it is time to leave I have the cash in hand to not only tip, but pay for the other meals (train, lodging and renter always paid for ahead of time. $200 in ones takes up about four envelopes,,,,,,

As for the red caps (life savers in my opinion) it's $5 / head. They are worth every penny,,,,,,


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## rrdude (Apr 27, 2015)

IMHO, on the 15% vs 20% "which is the norm", like every other aspect of tipping, it's up to you.

I usually have the mind-set that 15% is the "base level", that is, if the server does an average or adequate job, is timely, and basically cordial and such, they will get 15%. If, OTOH, the server is outgoing, very friendly, helpful, attentive, refills quickly, anticipates requests or remembers preferences, then I'll go north of 15%.

When do I go south of 15%? When the *service *(not nec the _food_) just plain sucks. It's a judgement call though, for if have the chance of seeing that server again on a multi-day trip, it could come back to haunt you. IDC if the server is having a "Bad hair day" or they are tired, or they just broke up with their significant other, that's not MY concern. Service is Service. Everyone KNOWS *how* to provide good service, *not* everyone decides to actually do it.

I too have carried Two Dollar Bills for years when traveling, (not just Amtrak). At times I've had people ask if they could "buy" some Two Dollar Bills from me, as one does not normally see them in circulation that often.

Used to pay my kids allowance in Two Dollar Bills too.


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## VentureForth (Apr 27, 2015)

I have a hard time withe the % of check rule sometimes. I'm going to digress a little bit here.

I went to Lakeland this last weekend. Yes, I drove from Savannah for $75 rather than subject my family to draining the coffers by over $500 for a round trip coach ticket on Amtrak.

On the return, I got to use some of my savings by stopping through at Walt Disney World's Downtown Disney (currently under MAJOR renovation). We had lunch at Planet Hollywood. Wife and I shared an appetizer and son #1 got a burger and son #2 got a pizza. Total cost was $67. A $10 tip was added to the end of that.

Planet Hollywood is almost always packed, yet in the past 20 years, they've managed to go bankrupt twice. $18 for a hamburger is ridiculous. $30 for an appetizer is CRAZY. $10 for a kids pizza is revolting.

For all the foreign guests not accustomed to tipping, a gratuity card is included in the check-booklet. The "suggested" tips start are in ticket total increments of $25 and goes on for three columns!

I just gave a girl an hours' wage for the exact same service and food quality that I pay half for at Denny's.

I say all that to say this: There are folks dumb enough to pay stupid prices for meals. Why not on Amtrak?


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## chilliepepper (Apr 28, 2015)

Several of you have mentioned dollar amounts like $1-$2 for breakfast, $3-$4 for lunch, and $5 for dinner. But I assume that is per person, right? Or are you saying that's what you would give as a family?


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## George K (Apr 28, 2015)

The steak dinner is $25. 20% would be $5.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 28, 2015)

chilliepepper said:


> Several of you have mentioned dollar amounts like $1-$2 for breakfast, $3-$4 for lunch, and $5 for dinner. But I assume that is per person, right? Or are you saying that's what you would give as a family?


That would be per person. Many of us travel alone so we speak in single person language


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## the_traveler (Apr 28, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Many of us travel alone


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## KmH (Apr 28, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Many of us travel alone


Why is that sad?

Besides on a train you're not alone. You're just with people you haven't yet spoken to, or might not get an opportunity to speak to.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 28, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Many of us travel alone


I didn't mean that we are lonely when we travel.

I have mixed feelings about traveling alone. I like not having to incorporate someone else's likes/time/etc into my plans but then I sometimes don't bother doing things because I don't have someone to share the experience with.

Or is your sad face because you don't like traveling alone.


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## the_traveler (Apr 28, 2015)

Yes. TPS is so empty with nobody else in the whole car!


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 28, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> Yes. TPS is so empty with nobody else in the whole car!


That's because you won't share!! And because you lost the TPS. Did you find it yet or is it still covered with snow?


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## Mystic River Dragon (Apr 28, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. TPS is so empty with nobody else in the whole car!
> ...


When I traveled MYS to PVD earlier in the spring, I looked for the TPS but didn't see it. Does it have a cloaking device to hide it from those of us mortals who were traveling in coach?


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## the_traveler (Apr 28, 2015)

The ice finally melted, but I found it now has flat wheels!  So it still won't move.


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## the_traveler (Apr 28, 2015)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


You didn't see it under that pile of ice? :huh:


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## Mystic River Dragon (Apr 28, 2015)

the_traveler said:


> Mystic River Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > AmtrakBlue said:
> ...


Aha. That explains it. :giggle:


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