# First public look at Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit



## BCL (Apr 7, 2015)

Apparently they're using somewhat customized self-contained diesel cars from Nippon Sharyo. Once they're up and running I might consider taking them for weekend trips to Russian River Brewing.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 7, 2015)

Diesel trains don't have to be ugly, outdated after all!


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## BCL (Apr 8, 2015)

I never really heard much about this line until there was this odd controversy. However, they placed the order for the powered cars back in 2010.

http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp101216.htm

_On December 15, SMART (Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit), the transit organization that was established to bring passenger rail to Sonoma and Marin counties in Northern California, awarded a contract to Nippon Sharyo and SCOA for 18 DMUs. This base order is worth USD 56.8 million; and the contract includes options for 146 more._

Seems like a huge option. There's no way they would ever exercise the options for that many unless they're thinking over decades due to replacements from incidents and/or normal wear. And even then, 146? I think it's less than 75 miles and they plan on just running two cars per train. Maybe they'll up the number of cars per train, but options to order 146 more?


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 8, 2015)

I think Toronto's Union Pearson Express uses the same model and piggybacked on SMART order.

Maybe its that?


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## Anderson (Apr 8, 2015)

It's possible that there was some plausible deal to resell options to other operators (like the Toronto order mentioned), which could easily offset a few million in costs (selling those options for $25k/each would generate about $3.65m in offsetting revenue).


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 8, 2015)

Portland is also looking in to ordering them for their short commuter rail, WES.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 8, 2015)

Shawn Ryu said:


> Portland is also looking in to ordering them for their short commuter rail, WES.


Really? That's a relatively new service with relatively new equipment. The ridership doesn't seem to justify additional equipment

at the moment, unless they're planning some sort of dramatic expansion.


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## BCL (Apr 8, 2015)

Apparently these are diesel hydraulic driven, so it's essentially a (Cummins) diesel engine driving a torque converter and not a diesel generator creating electricity for electric motors. I'm wondering how reliable they can be in the long run. However, it sounds like they're also using standard components in the drivetrain.


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## BCL (Apr 8, 2015)

Anderson said:


> It's possible that there was some plausible deal to resell options to other operators (like the Toronto order mentioned), which could easily offset a few million in costs (selling those options for $25k/each would generate about $3.65m in offsetting revenue).


I read elsewhere that the initial order is $6.5M per two-car trainset, but that the options are at $2.9M per car. Also - the cars were specifically designed for SMART, so any other potential buyers may be seeing how they work out before proceeding.\

Here's another story. It sounds like the terms might have been modified.



> http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3762218-181/first-smart-cars-roll-into?page=0
> 
> Mansourian said SMART will take delivery of a new set of rail cars every two months prior to the service starting next year. The rail agency’s $56 million contract with Sumitomo gives SMART the option to buy up to 80 train units.
> 
> ...


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## KmH (Apr 8, 2015)

That's a train horn? It's less than attention getting.

Cute, but using an American term-of-art, it sucks!


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## BCL (Apr 9, 2015)

KmH said:


> That's a train horn? It's less than attention getting.
> 
> Cute, but using an American term-of-art, it sucks!


I didn't really listen to the audio. Now that I have, it kind of sounds like a big harmonica.

Which gets me thinking of who the passengers might be. I mentioned going to Santa Rosa on a beer run. They claim that there are a lot of people commuting between parts of Marin and Sonoma counties. However, San Quentin State Prison is a short distance from the proposed Larkspur station. Use your imagination.

I'd use the famous picture taken of Johnny Cash (flipping the bird) during the rehearsal for one of his San Quentin Prison performances, but I think that would get me in trouble.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 9, 2015)

BCL said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > That's a train horn? It's less than attention getting.
> ...


Prison employs lots of workers. Nice way to get to the job.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 9, 2015)

BCL said:


> Which gets me thinking of who the passengers might be. I mentioned going to Santa Rosa on a beer run. They claim that there are a lot of people commuting between parts of Marin and Sonoma counties. However, San Quentin State Prison is a short distance from the proposed Larkspur station. Use your imagination.


That's a bit misleading, though I suspect you were being tongue-in-cheek. The "proposed Larkspur station" is actually going to be across the street from the ferry terminal, providing an easy connection to San Francisco.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 9, 2015)

Yeah, easy ferry ride into the city on the Larkspur Ferry when released from prison!


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## BCL (Apr 9, 2015)

fairviewroad said:


> That's a bit misleading, though I suspect you were being tongue-in-cheek. The "proposed Larkspur station" is actually going to be across the street from the ferry terminal, providing an easy connection to San Francisco.


I haven't seen any firm plans for where the station is supposed to be. I've heard "Larkspur Landing" (the shopping complex) listed as the southern terminus, but I'm not sure where the tracks are going to be. I know they spent $25M on a pedestrian/bike path that's supposed to be a requirement for the project. I'm not sure they know.


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## BCL (Apr 9, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Yeah, easy ferry ride into the city on the Larkspur Ferry when released from prison!


Of course. However, the gateway to/from San Quentin is on the east side, so it's like 2.5 miles when it should otherwise be a mile in a straight line.

Part of the deal with San Quentin is what the feds had in mind using Alcatraz as a civilian prison. The inmates could look out and see/hear activity going on in San Francisco and know that they were locked up and not able to be part of it. I vaguely remember seeing an old Bogart movie (on late night TV) where he plays an escaped prisoner from San Quentin and the character complains about all that time he could see San Francisco like it was taunting him. I looked it up and it was _Dark Passage_, although he also made a movie called just _San Quentin_.

There are calls to tear down the place since it's an extremely expensive place to run and the land values are off the charts. Many families of prisoners don't like that idea since it's not out of the way like most prisons in California.

I do suppose that providing a ticket on Golden Gate Ferry is a lot cheaper than Greyhound. I guess that's saving the taxpayers money.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 9, 2015)

BCL said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > That's a bit misleading, though I suspect you were being tongue-in-cheek. The "proposed Larkspur station" is actually going to be across the street from the ferry terminal, providing an easy connection to San Francisco.
> ...


I lifted the "across the street" phrase directly from the project's FAQ page. But information elsewhere on the website does make it seem like "across the street" is a bit of a generous description. Still, it certainly doesn't seem to be geared at traffic to/from the prison.

.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 9, 2015)

BCL said:


> The inmates could look out and see/hear activity going on in San Francisco and know that they were locked up and not able to be part of it.


Why, who wants to gaze over at San Francisco when you can play basketball and tennis all day! It's practically a country

club. My guess is they don't WANT more public transit access, since you know what kind of lowlife crazies ride the train.


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## neroden (Apr 12, 2015)

BCL said:


> I never really heard much about this line until there was this odd controversy. However, they placed the order for the powered cars back in 2010.
> 
> http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp101216.htm
> 
> ...


The plan was to sell option slots to other agencies. And in fact they did so, Toronto bought some of the options. At the time there were several other agencies talking about big DMU orders, most of which fell through.


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## neroden (Apr 12, 2015)

fairviewroad said:


> Shawn Ryu said:
> 
> 
> > Portland is also looking in to ordering them for their short commuter rail, WES.
> ...


The diesel railcars being used on WES are considered lemons. I expect that Portland wants to replace them.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Apr 13, 2015)

BCL said:


> Apparently these are diesel hydraulic driven, so it's essentially a (Cummins) diesel engine driving a torque converter and not a diesel generator creating electricity for electric motors. I'm wondering how reliable they can be in the long run. However, it sounds like they're also using standard components in the drivetrain.


I believe there is a diesel operation like this in Southern California I think its called either the Sprinter or the Coaster. All though off the top of my head I'm not sure.


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## BCL (Apr 13, 2015)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently these are diesel hydraulic driven, so it's essentially a (Cummins) diesel engine driving a torque converter and not a diesel generator creating electricity for electric motors. I'm wondering how reliable they can be in the long run. However, it sounds like they're also using standard components in the drivetrain.
> ...


Coaster uses locomotives and unpowered cars. Sprinter is classified as light rail, but they use Siemens Desiro DMUs.


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## CHamilton (May 16, 2015)

With the arrival of SMART, commuter trains will roll in Marin for first time in 75 years


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## Matt Davis (May 16, 2015)

Nice article and pictures. However, IIRC, part of the reason BART never was built into Marin was that Marin didn't want the development pressure BART would bring to the County. Marin still has a remarkably open feel to it, due to all the efforts to keep it from being 'overdeveloped.'

>>>>>>>>

Joke: What does BMW stand for?

ANS: Basic Marin Wheels!


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