# Acela first class vs business class



## pooh2 (Aug 21, 2014)

What is the difference between First class and business class on the Acela express? (Looking to go Boston to NY and back for a day or weekend trip.)

There is a big price difference.

I've been business class on the Northeast Regional.

Is that the same type seating on the Acela?


----------



## amamba (Aug 21, 2014)

First class has 2-1 seating on acela. There is an attendant who provides at seat meal/drink service. All alcoholic drinks are included. You can check out the menu at Amtrak.com (posting from my phone so can't grab link for you).

Is it worth it? It's about $80 or $100 IIRC for the upgrade from NYP-BOS. As a FC passenger you can wait in the club acela in NYP and BOS.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Aug 21, 2014)

Frankly I can drink $80 worth of booze alone in that trip time.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 21, 2014)

Concur.

Acela First is where it's at. Good meal and free booze? Yes, please!


----------



## RTE_TrainGuy (Aug 21, 2014)

The price difference can be pretty high, IME. Business on the Acela is generally considered to be better than NER business.


----------



## afigg (Aug 21, 2014)

RyanS said:


> Concur.
> 
> Acela First is where it's at. Good meal and free booze? Yes, please!


I took Acela First Class once on a free upgrade. While the seats, included booze and meals were nice, I decided that unless someone else was paying for it, or I have a free upgrade to burn off, or I hit the jackpot & had more money than I knew what to do with, I would not bother traveling Acela First Class again. But everyone has to make their own judgement on whether the extra $$$ is worth it to them.


----------



## HAL (Aug 21, 2014)

afigg said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> > Concur.
> ...


And that is what many First Class passengers are doing. Taking advantage of free guest rewards upgrades. Or some company or client bought them the ticket.


----------



## William W. (Aug 21, 2014)

I've never actually paid for first class on the Acela, haha. I've used upgrade coupons every time.

I'm definitely not a fan of the lunch/dinner options in Acela First class. It's not that the meals are bad, it's just that they've reduced the selection, and the main option is often a vegetarian option (I'm sure as a result of food service cuts). You definitely can't get a steak on the Acela anymore, haha.

I do find it interesting that NER business class passengers get free non-alcoholic drinks and newspapers, while Acela business class passengers get the same included amenities as coach pax on other trains (nothing at all).


----------



## the_traveler (Aug 21, 2014)

On a NER (and on many other trains) you have a choice of coach or business class. On AE you have a choice of Business Class or First Class. (There is no "coach".) So BC on AE could be considered coach.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Aug 21, 2014)

Actually, Amtrak is dumb branding it as business. There are plenty of company travel expense departments who would reject it on that basis.


----------



## VentureForth (Aug 21, 2014)

Amtrak really can't get a consistent definition of Business Class for the whole system. There is a description of Business Class on the website that pertains to all lines, but noted are the non-published exceptions and variations. First Class is defined for Acela. Sleeper Class is defined. Coach is defined.

Business Class is a hodgepodge mess in the world of Amtrak.


----------



## William W. (Aug 21, 2014)

How I rank Amtrak's business class:

Coach car with "BusinessClass" stuck to the outside (that's happened, apparently) < Ex-Metroliner coach cars that are now business class cars < Acela Express Business class < Club-dinette business class.


----------



## amamba (Aug 21, 2014)

One time I drank them out of bourbon. That was a good trip.


----------



## afigg (Aug 21, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> Amtrak really can't get a consistent definition of Business Class for the whole system. There is a description of Business Class on the website that pertains to all lines, but noted are the non-published exceptions and variations. First Class is defined for Acela. Sleeper Class is defined. Coach is defined.
> 
> Business Class is a hodgepodge mess in the world of Amtrak.


BC is a hodgepodge of perks and features, in large part, because Amtrak has a hodgepodge of equipment with different seating and different corridor services. They have the Acela, Amfleet Is BC class cars with 2x2 seating, Amfleet I cafe cars with 2x1 seating, Surfliners & CA cars, Talgos, Horizons, Superliners used for corridor services. Some states are willing to support BC seating, some are not.

 The Midwest should become consistent with the delivery of the corridor bi-level cars, although a state such as WI, if they get bi-levels, may pass on BC cars. The eastern routes will remain messy for BC as long as the Acela is defined as only BC and FC. Amtrak needs to label the Acela (non-FC) seats as BC in order to justify selling the Acela seats at a premium. Given the amount of revenue the Acela generates for Amtrak, can't say that the strategy is not working.


----------



## VentureForth (Aug 21, 2014)

So, and I've thought I've seen this in the past, they should be clear: Acela Business Class needs to be separate from Business Class.

That's the importance of branding. Someone in Marketing in DC needs to wake up.


----------



## pooh2 (Aug 21, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. We are not drinkers so not sure the meal would be worth it or not.. Kind of leaning toward the business class after reading this thread.


----------



## Shawn Ryu (Aug 21, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Frankly I can drink $80 worth of booze alone in that trip time.


We must travel together one of these days.


----------



## the_traveler (Aug 21, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> So, and I've thought I've seen this in the past, they should be clear: Acela Business Class needs to be separate from Business Class.That's the importance of branding. Someone in Marketing in DC needs to wake up.


 Actually they are, even though it's not overtly obvious. On a NER it's business class (small letters), while on Acela it's Business Class (capital letters).


----------



## HAL (Aug 21, 2014)

William W. said:


> How I rank Amtrak's business class:
> 
> Coach car with "BusinessClass" stuck to the outside (that's happened, apparently) < Ex-Metroliner coach cars that are now business class cars < Acela Express Business class < Club-dinette business class.


The Northeast Regional Business Class cars have more legroom than coach class cars. 60 seats in Business Class. 72 seats in coach class. Busness Class also has two of the table four seaters. They have footrests at the seats and curtains on the window. So it is more than just Busness Class stuck on the outside. I think they are more comfortable than Acela Express Busness Class.


----------



## chrsjrcj (Aug 21, 2014)

Last Saturday I rode the Acela Express for the first time (in First Class). It was the best train ride I've ever had in my life. Early boarding at Boston South Station, and had a glass of orange juice (I'm not a drinker, but I was surprised at the number of people getting alcoholic drinks at 8 am) at my seat just as we were departing. My order for breakfast was taken, I believe after leaving Back Bay station. Ordered the french toast which was about half the portion size you would expect on a long distance train. Attendant was extremely attentive, and always came around making sure we were all right. By the time I got my french toast, we were going 150 mph through Mansfield, MA. Of course you can go 150 mph on the same train in business class, but I thought the overall experience up to now made the first class cost worth it. Snacks (I believe trail mix) were served about 1/2 hour before arriving New York. Seconds were offered to anyone who wanted. Then just before arriving New York, the attendant handed out a warm moist towelette. I was extremely impressed.

I don't think I would do business class in the Acela, unless I really cared about the small time savings. I'd much rather do business class on a Regional. Seats are slightly less comfortable than Acela First Class, but much more comfortable than the standard Amfleet coach seats/

If you've never done the Acela before, do First Class just for the experience.


----------



## NTL1991 (Aug 21, 2014)

For Acela First Class (or even Northeast Regional Business), always buy an upgraded accommodation up front, from the beginning. From PVD-NYP the accommodation charge is $79 for First Class on the Acela, and $30 for Business on the Regional.

However, if you're deciding to upgrade after already booking a ticket, especially if you're doing it last-minute, a First Class accommodation could end up costing you as much as $152 to upgrade, or as much as $105 to upgrade from Coach to Business on the Regional. That's because you have the pay the current rail fare at the time of the upgrade in addition to the accommodation charge...

Also, be mindful that some discounts require advance purchase, such as AAA or Veteran's Advantage. These both require 3-day minimum advanced purchase, and if you find yourself wanting to upgrade to Business or First Class the day of your trip, you'll be paying the difference between the discounted fare you paid and the current full fare in addition to the accommodation charge.

Always do it up front, from the beginning.

-Nick


----------



## Acela150 (Aug 21, 2014)

I would personally spring the extra few bucks and book from RTE if your getting on at PVD. One gets the select city pair points from RTE and not from PVD.

As for the comfort of seats. NER BC compared to Coach. I think that the seats in Coach are more plush then BC. But I've preferred the plushness for a while.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 21, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> Amtrak really can't get a consistent definition of Business Class for the whole system. There is a description of Business Class on the website that pertains to all lines, but noted are the non-published exceptions and variations. First Class is defined for Acela. Sleeper Class is defined. Coach is defined. Business Class is a hodgepodge mess in the world of Amtrak.


Exactly. How difficult could it be to identify a unified set of amenities that are meaningful enough to provide a genuine incentive for coach passengers to buy up and then sell them as Business Class systemwide? Something that anyone who rides Amtrak could anticipate and book with confidence. Instead I tend to avoid “business class” on Amtrak because I have no idea what it means and the only thing I can truly count on is that it costs more. Other than that I have no idea what I’m getting and Amtrak’s sales pitch is borderline useless.



Green Maned Lion said:


> Frankly I can drink $80 worth of booze alone in that trip time.


At Amtrak prices $80 would buy you roughly 600ml. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen anyone drink that much. Are you still in college?


----------



## neroden (Aug 21, 2014)

I'd advise Amtrak (were I asked) that business class should have a standard seat pitch and a standard layout (2-2, probably, unfortunately). The coaches with 2-1 seating should probably get some other name ("custom class" or whatever).


----------



## AlanB (Aug 21, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak really can't get a consistent definition of Business Class for the whole system. There is a description of Business Class on the website that pertains to all lines, but noted are the non-published exceptions and variations. First Class is defined for Acela. Sleeper Class is defined. Coach is defined. Business Class is a hodgepodge mess in the world of Amtrak.
> ...


Part of the issue here is the fact that most of the BC off of the NEC is not 100% controlled by Amtrak. The State's sponsoring the service get a say in what BC looks like and what gets offered to a BC passenger.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Aug 21, 2014)

I was mildly exaggerating. I can drink 600 ml of hard liquor in that time period but would not do so publicly. I weigh nearly 400 pounds and have been a fairly heavy drinker most of my adult life. I'd be drunk, but could easily walk off the train and to a hotel. You might want ear plugs, though. I get the (false) impression I can sing.


----------



## pennyk (Aug 22, 2014)

amamba said:


> One time I drank them out of bourbon. That was a good trip.


A couple of years ago, my sister and I sat across the aisle from a guy who drank them out of IPA beer (starting in BOS at 9ish and ending in NYP). That was NOT a pleasant trip. The passengers continuing south of NYP applauded when the obnoxious guy de-trained.


----------



## VentureForth (Aug 22, 2014)

AlanB said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > VentureForth said:
> ...


 I certainly understand that - one reason why the Carolinian (State-_subsidized_ vs State-_owned_) has a trolley cart and a cranky attendant whereas the Palmetto can't even decide whether to have 2x1 seating vs converted 2x2 Amcan. The fact that a train has Amtrak on the ticket, on the train car, at the station, and in the literature should be the primary reason why the services should be consistent. Even fully owned state services like Amtrak California should subscribe to a franchise definition of Business Class (with or without capitals). Obviously, me talking about it doesn't mean anything to the powers that be, but that's why I'm here - to vent without recourse.


----------



## ronkstevens (Aug 27, 2014)

William W. said:


> How I rank Amtrak's business class:
> 
> Coach car with "BusinessClass" stuck to the outside (that's happened, apparently) < Ex-Metroliner coach cars that are now business class cars < Acela Express Business class < Club-dinette business class.


Or with some trains you have to consider the following as well:

Am I Coach car used for business (82xxx) < Am I Business class 2x2 (81xxx) < Am II Coach car ~ Acela Business class < Am I Club/Dinette Business class


----------



## amamba (Aug 27, 2014)

Acela150 said:


> I would personally spring the extra few bucks and book from RTE if your getting on at PVD. One gets the select city pair points from RTE and not from PVD.
> 
> As for the comfort of seats. NER BC compared to Coach. I think that the seats in Coach are more plush then BC. But I've preferred the plushness for a while.


Except your e-ticket might be cancelled when you don't board in RTE.

I always book to RTE when I am going home, but never when boarding anymore. Not worth the risk, IMO, of a reservation being cancelled.


----------



## Mike1960 (Aug 28, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Frankly I can drink $80 worth of booze alone in that trip time.


I paid extra to ride in Acela first class from DC to NY. (not by choice... I had to ride that train and it only had first class seats left)

The attendant said free booze was limited to 2 drinks per person. I didn't really protest. I only had one beer anyway, since the trip was not for pleasure. However, it made me wonder why many people never mentioned the 2-drink limit here.  Did I encounter one of those attendants who make up his own rules?


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2014)

Sounds like he was short on Beer, I've never seen this happen in FC with the harder stuff! Some pax really pound the drinks, I like to sip and enjoy mine so never have more than a couple!


----------



## Mike1960 (Aug 28, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> Sounds like he was short on Beer, I've never seen this happen in FC with the harder stuff! Some pax really pound the drinks, I like to sip and enjoy mine so never have more than a couple!


no, he said two alcoholic drinks per passenger per trip. (not just beer... *any* alcoholic drink) This was last week of June.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2014)

Say it ain't so Joe!

Have the Bean Counters started in on the Acela now?


----------



## SubwayNut (Aug 28, 2014)

I rode it twice in August (upgrade coupons) and heard and saw nothing of the sort. One trip was the 5:20 BOS to NYP departure and there was definitely a decent amount of polite drinking going on.


----------



## J-1 3235 (Aug 28, 2014)

I traveled from WAS to BOS earlier this week, and heard the attendant call New York and order extra stock to be picked up in Penn. No mention of a "limit of two" on that trip.


----------



## Ispolkom (Aug 28, 2014)

Mike1960 said:


> Did I encounter one of those attendants who make up his own rules?


Sounds like it to me.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 28, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> Mike1960 said:
> 
> 
> > Did I encounter one of those attendants who make up his own rules?
> ...


Yep.


----------



## Mike1960 (Aug 28, 2014)

RyanS said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > Mike1960 said:
> ...



I have never complained to Amtrak about anything. If I contact them about this, what kind of "compensation" can I expect to get? Perhaps they'll send me a coupon good for a case of wine or beer?


----------



## VentureForth (Aug 28, 2014)

Is there a bluebook guideline?

If there were any regulars on the train, I would have expected to hear some sort of revolt.


----------



## amamba (Aug 28, 2014)

Made up rule. /gavel.


----------



## Mike1960 (Aug 28, 2014)

amamba said:


> Made up rule. /gavel.


what does the official Amtrak rule book say about employees making up rules on the trains?


----------



## William W. (Aug 28, 2014)

Well, if they take bribes, they can retire with full benefits, so...


----------



## Ispolkom (Aug 28, 2014)

Mike1960 said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > Made up rule. /gavel.
> ...


In my experience (and I've only been riding Amtrak since 1981), making up rules is, well, the rule.


----------



## BrianPR3 (Sep 3, 2014)

amamba said:


> First class has 2-1 seating on acela. There is an attendant who provides at seat meal/drink service. All alcoholic drinks are included. You can check out the menu at Amtrak.com (posting from my phone so can't grab link for you).


i got you on that, i can post the the acela menu

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/925/621/Acela-Express-0414.pdf


----------



## OBS (Sep 3, 2014)

Absolutely a made up rule....I would at least contact Amtrak with travel info so situation can be documented...


----------



## aviva_dawn (Jun 6, 2016)

Taking the Acela on July 1st in First Class. Downeaster in Business from POR to BON, then doing the self-transfer to Back Bay, then Acela into NYP.

I'm really looking forward to this.


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jun 6, 2016)

aviva_dawn said:


> Taking the Acela on July 1st in First Class. Downeaster in Business from POR to BON, then doing the self-transfer to Back Bay, then Acela into NYP.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this.


If you have the time, I would suggest going to South Station to board the Acela. With your FC ticket, you get access to the ClubAcela lounge.


----------



## aviva_dawn (Jun 6, 2016)

FreeskierInVT said:


> aviva_dawn said:
> 
> 
> > Taking the Acela on July 1st in First Class. Downeaster in Business from POR to BON, then doing the self-transfer to Back Bay, then Acela into NYP.
> ...


Is that allowed? When I booked the ticket, the transfer was to Back Bay where I'd get on, it didn't give me an option to do otherwise.


----------



## J-1 3235 (Jun 6, 2016)

Yes-the fare from Boston South Station, Back Bay, and Route 128 is the same. The conductors usually lift the FC tickets after RTE.

Departing from BOS will give you a better choice of seats.


----------



## Triley (Jun 6, 2016)

J-1 3235 said:


> Yes-the fare from Boston South Station, Back Bay, and Route 128 is the same. The conductors usually lift the FC tickets after RTE.
> 
> Departing from BOS will give you a better choice of seats.


Like, a single seat on the left side of the car. And it is okay to board at South Station, yup!


----------



## aviva_dawn (Jun 6, 2016)

Triley said:


> J-1 3235 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes-the fare from Boston South Station, Back Bay, and Route 128 is the same. The conductors usually lift the FC tickets after RTE.
> ...


Thanks! I will make sure that is where I board. No need to update the ticket?


----------



## Triley (Jun 6, 2016)

aviva_dawn said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > J-1 3235 said:
> ...


Nope, you will be all set. It happens all the time. As a matter of fact, I'm sure someone will do it while I'm working First Class tomorrow, either in way out, or get off at a different stop on the way back to Boston.


----------



## Acela150 (Jun 6, 2016)

aviva_dawn said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > J-1 3235 said:
> ...


I've done this a small handful of times. I used to frequently ride between PHL and RTE. There would be times where I had to change plans and went to South Station and used the lounge or I'd be booked out of South Station and would use RTE instead.


----------

