# Pet peeves while riding amtrak



## amtrakwolverine (Aug 16, 2010)

Im not talking about staff problems or Amtrak problems but things other passengers due that bother you.

Like coming back from LAX on the SWC the guy behind me had chewing tobacco out and was spitting it into a paper cup.

Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2010)

Pigs that mess up the bathroom and can't even clean up after themselves or flush!This happens in sleepers too but not as often! :angry:


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## rtabern (Aug 16, 2010)

Number one complaint would be screaming children -- especially when you pay the extra money to go in Business Class or use the Quiet Car to try and avoid that kinda thing.  Other complaints are people who string their laptop cords across the aisle in the Sightseer Lounge. Speaking of, people who bug you 10 zillion times asking if there are outlets in the Sightseer Lounge. Also, people who make a big fuss they have to eat with other people in the dining car (get over it!) Probably some of my other biggest pet peeves are down at Chicago Union Station during the boarding process. DONT be shocked when you arrive at 7:05AM and the 7:00AM train to St. Louis has already left. And after 3 announcements that only seniors, those who are physically disabled, and those in business class line up -- almost every time you have atleast 5 people who try and go through. What don't they understand? :help:


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## jmbgeg (Aug 16, 2010)

rtabern said:


> Number one complaint would be screaming children -- especially when you pay the extra money to go in Business Class or use the Quiet Car to try and avoid that kinda thing.  Other complaints are people who string their laptop cords across the aisle in the Sightseer Lounge. Speaking of, people who bug you 10 zillion times asking if there are outlets in the Sightseer Lounge. Also, people who make a big fuss they have to eat with other people in the dining car (get over it!) Probably some of my other biggest pet peeves are down at Chicago Union Station during the boarding process. DONT be shocked when you arrive at 7:05AM and the 7:00AM train to St. Louis has already left. And after 3 announcements that only seniors, those who are physically disabled, and those in business class line up -- almost every time you have atleast 5 people who try and go through. What don't they understand? :help:


Screaming, crying or hyperactive children in sleeper cars can disrupt a serene journey.


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## rtabern (Aug 16, 2010)

jmbgeg said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > Number one complaint would be screaming children -- especially when you pay the extra money to go in Business Class or use the Quiet Car to try and avoid that kinda thing.  Other complaints are people who string their laptop cords across the aisle in the Sightseer Lounge. Speaking of, people who bug you 10 zillion times asking if there are outlets in the Sightseer Lounge. Also, people who make a big fuss they have to eat with other people in the dining car (get over it!) Probably some of my other biggest pet peeves are down at Chicago Union Station during the boarding process. DONT be shocked when you arrive at 7:05AM and the 7:00AM train to St. Louis has already left. And after 3 announcements that only seniors, those who are physically disabled, and those in business class line up -- almost every time you have atleast 5 people who try and go through. What don't they understand? :help:
> ...


It's even more fun when you are trying to do an 8-hour long Trails & Rails presentation all the way from Chicago to St. Paul with a screaming kid behind you the whole way... or a whole family playing a game of slap card games at the next table over. UGGGHH!!!

The worst had to be this boy... probably around 7 years old... with extreme A.D.D that I had on a trip earlier this year. Right out of Chicago his mom comes into the lounge car and tells the boy -- "listen to what the nice men are going to tell you" -- and then she goes back to her coach seat to take a nap. We were pretty much expected to baby sit this kid!! Between CHI and MKE, he probably came up to us in mid-narration sentence atleast 20 times. Around the Dells, I was hoping a junior ranger badge, an Amtrak coloring book, and a postcard would shut him up... but he actually came back 3 minutes later saying he didnt like the Amtrak activity book -- and wondered "if I have anything else" -- I said NO... Trails & Rails doesnt give us a lot of stuff besides brochures to hand out to people -- and the postcard and activity book actually came out of my own pocket. He then proceeds to rifle through my Trails & Rails book bag pulling everything out!!!   

Hahahaha!!!


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 16, 2010)

Guest said:


> Pigs that mess up the bathroom and can't even clean up after themselves or flush!This happens in sleepers too but not as often! :angry:


how about when they don't lock the door and then don't respond when you knock and you walk in on them.


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## Steve4031 (Aug 16, 2010)

I am sympathetic to children if I am in coach, but I resent in BC. The absolute worst was on the Acela in first class. I got on the train in New haven, and grabbed a nice window seat in a 4 seater. This was the only open seat. I was about to set my Ipod down, and noticed this gooey substance on the table. I notified the attendant, and she came to clean it off. Then this women sitting in the seats behind me made this big syrupy apology, saying she had moved up there to feed her baby. Yuck. I stared daggers at her. This was not why I paid the supplement for FC on the Acela.

To make matters worse, the female attendant came back after wiping the table and participated in a ooey gooey baby conversation, ignoring me like I was some cretin for not liking kids in FC. After a few minutes, I pointedly asked for a pepsi and warm nuts. She was somewhat taken aback, but realized I was a knowledgeable, frequent rider, and that I was about to enter letter writing mode. She played make up the rest of the way to NYP. I really was not interested.


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## rrdude (Aug 16, 2010)

Conductors who are on the platform, waiting for their train to come, and you ask them "Do you know if this is # 785" ......Answer..."I don't know...." then he sits across from you on the platform, at track 9. The message board reads "Train # 785 is due in 20 minutes late."

Then a Surfliner pulls in five minutes later. The conductor gets up, and boards the train that just came in, not saying a word.

Moments later over the PA, "Last call for train # 785, track 9, all aboard!"

The "hairy eyeball" is NOT an accurate enuff description of how I looked at the SAME conductor as I boarded # 785, on track 9. What an asshat.

What is it about "common courtesy" that he couldn't have just said as he got up to board the train, "this is train # 785......"


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## Acela150 (Aug 16, 2010)

Riders that don't use headphones on there ipods or laptops. While on AE 2164 back in July there was a family and they all had ipads with no headphones and watching videos on youtube at the loudest level. I politely asked them use headphones or turn it down. I got a polite response of F*&k off. I also can't stand passengers in FC on AE that give $2 tips or no tips at all. These FCA's work their rear end's off, and they get $2?? I always give $20. $10 each. They earn it!

Steve


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## LA Resident (Aug 16, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Conductors who are on the platform, waiting for their train to come, and you ask them "Do you know if this is # 785" ......Answer..."I don't know...." then he sits across from you on the platform, at track 9. The message board reads "Train # 785 is due in 20 minutes late."
> 
> Then a Surfliner pulls in five minutes later. The conductor gets up, and boards the train that just came in, not saying a word.
> 
> ...


If it's the conductor who I think it is--and I ride the Surfliner a LOT--he's been rude to so many hundreds of riders over the years that I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to throw him off a moving train!! He is really the exception among conductors on the Surfliner and a lot of us don't understand how he continues to keep his job! (Even other conductors have complained about him!)I feel bad for Amtrak because there are quite a few passengers whose first experience will train travel will come from being face-to-face with this cretin, and their perception of Amtrak becomes set in a negative way.


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## LA Resident (Aug 16, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Im not talking about staff problems or Amtrak problems but things other passengers due that bother you.
> 
> Like coming back from LAX on the SWC the guy behind me had chewing tobacco out and was spitting it into a paper cup.
> 
> Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.


Riders--especially on short-distance commuter-type lines--who are sprawled across both seats despite an almost-capacity train and despite conductor announcements warning of crowds, and who shoot you dirty looks when you try to sit down. I've given up asking politely and now simply tell them to move their bags, laptops, food, whatever, because I'm going to sit down. The worst are the professional types out of Los Angeles going back to Orange County at night and who believe they have a God-given right to two seats for the price of one!


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## AlanB (Aug 16, 2010)

Acela150 said:


> I also can't stand passengers in FC on AE that give $2 tips or no tips at all. These FCA's work their rear end's off, and they get $2?? I always give $20. $10 each. They earn it!


I've met a few attendants that don't work their rear end's off on Acela FC, trust me.

The majority however do a halfway decent job and therefore get a tip from me.

And then, like anyplace else, there are a few who are just outstanding like Mr. Johnson and quite probably my favorite attendant, Wilson. There was a period of time where I hadn't seen Wilson in like 2 years at least, in part because of the Acela brake problem and in part because of my schedule. I got lucky one day and bumped into him while riding with AU member Diesteldorf to Boston. Chris couldn't believe it when Wilson walked down the aisle carrying my glass of white wine without my having even opened my mouth. After all that time, Wilson still remembered what I liked to drink.

But anytime I've ever been on the train with either Mr. Johnson or Wilson, my glass never goes dry, unless I wave them off. If it's in the galley, you'll never want for anything with either of these exceptional FC attendants.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm going to chime in as well on the pigs who don't clean up after themselves in the shower. These are the creatures who will throw their towels on the floor and not in the bag, sling water everywhere and not dry up after themselves and leave slimy soap bars in the stall. I could go on about males with bad aim who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:


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## Freckles68 (Aug 17, 2010)

HA, there was a sort of similar thread over on FT that I kind of went off in. So I will reproduce it here since it's even more appropriate:

The fact that the so-called Quiet Car is NEVER QUIET and no one either enforces the rule OR makes the fact that it's the Quiet Car clearly evident at every stop. It doesn't help to just say it at the beginning of the run. Every stop, people get on and have no idea it's the Quiet Car, and the barely audible announcement that the second car is the Quiet Car is USELESS... who actually counts cars and knows which number car they're in?

Also, people with kids glare at you when you tell them it's the Quiet Car and say "but they're kids, they can't stay quiet, you CHILD-HATING MONSTER." Well, that's fine... but then DON'T SIT IN THE QUIET CAR!

Then there's the idiots who have nonstop loud conversations the whole trip... again, I totally understand that when you're traveling with a companion, it's hard to not converse... but then DON'T SIT IN THE QUIET CAR!

And then of course there's the cellphone-talkers, who just can't help but make call after call. One time a woman spent practically the entire DC-NY trip planning her wedding. Call after call to caterers, florists, dress shops, friends, family etc. Yes, she made all these calls IN THE QUIET CAR!

NONE of these people stop yapping when you remind them of where they're sitting... they act like you have no right to ask them to keep it down. But people, if you want to talk or make a call or have your kids babbling nonstop, that's OK. Just DON'T DO IT IN THE QUIET CAR!

I think at every single stop, the conductor should loudly announce, as he enters the Quiet Car to check tickets, that this is the G-D-M-F'in QUIET CAR _and this is how it's gonna go down, yo_.

I feel better now. Thank you for the opportunity to get this off my chest.


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## greatcats (Aug 17, 2010)

Gosh, one of the above posters who bemoaned $2 tips has me feeling guilty. Two + years ago I was on First Class Acela New York to Washington. I was served lunch and a drink by the attendant and the service was pretty good. I gave him $2 when I got off. He thanked me, but I would go back and give him a few more bucks after this guilt trip has been laid on me! Since I am a tour bus driver who appreciates tips off the cruise ship passengers, I promise to do better next time. I always leave a normal restaurant tip in dining cars and tip the sleeper attendants something, from modest to generous, depending on the service.


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## PerRock (Aug 17, 2010)

no offence to rtabern; but personally I dislike the ongoing announced 'ramblings' of the trails & rails on the EB. Mind you I do like the fact that they are on and usually know a fair bit about what we are seeing, but does it have to be blared throughout the entire car at top volume (I guess if you wanted people to hear it it does...)? I think my favorite T&R presentation was a park ranger who came in and set up a little hands-on museum display thing about Lewis & Clark; and the Rangers on board during Glacier were nice. But the guy rambling on about cattle farming as we went across the Montana was really quite annoying.

_On a side note I was thinking about the T&R guys and recall getting into an argument with one over what the last car on the private train we passed was. It had the little platform on the back; I said it was a Business car (and that's what the side of the car said as well) but the T&R guy insisted that it was an Observation car._

_And on another side note I find it funny that I don't think I've ever seen rtabern doing T&R on the EB as I was taking it a couple times a year for a while between CHI & LSE_

Another peeve is the guys who set up camp in the cafe car with their laptops; don't buy anything and won't let others share the table. Many times have I come into a car seen a lone half of a table with a guy on his computer on the other side, gotten some stuff from the cafe and asked if I could sit down, only to be told to bug off.

Ooh and the car attendants who think they rule the train! On my EB trip to PDX my family went coach, and was one car behind the SSL (I think they've rearranged the consist since then) The Conductor allowed us to sleep in the SSL over night as we could spread out more and stretch, however I recall being told off shortly there after by our attendant that after a certain time we were not allowed to leave our seats.

_Ya I know that is technically staff..._

And the people who think they know everything about trains. There have been many times (usually in the CHI waiting room) when I've overheard or been told by someone a number of facts about the train and half of them are wrong. I remember someone turning to me and telling me that it was nice that the wolverine was now using Viewliners, and when I tried to point out that that wasn't the case they continued to insist that it was. Usually when I overhear it I just smile to myself and shake my head and hope that I'm not stuck next to that person on the train.

I guess that's good for now....

peter


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 17, 2010)

PerRock said:


> Ooh and the car attendants who think they rule the train! On my EB trip to PDX my family went coach, and was one car behind the SSL (I think they've rearranged the consist since then) The Conductor allowed us to sleep in the SSL over night as we could spread out more and stretch, however I recall being told off shortly there after by our attendant that after a certain time we were not allowed to leave our seats.
> 
> _Ya I know that is technically staff..._


If the conductor gave you permission and a car attendant says otherwise I would tell them to take it up with the conductor sense the conductor is the REAL BOSS of the train.


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## guestlsa (Aug 17, 2010)

I so waiting for this topic. I got lot of pet peeves and most one is the smokers! i hate when the train is late period and the smokers when to get off at every stop but then wanna nag to death about when going to get where they going(well we could get there if you were to stop smoking at every stop).Kids are another pet peeve and I am mother of 2 yr old boy...they mess up the toliets and they spill everything on the floor and parentsrefuse to clean up. My last one (right now) folks who know train is busy but wanna sit by themselves..............you only pay for one ticket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 17, 2010)

Guest said:


> Pigs that mess up the bathroom and can't even clean up after themselves or flush!This happens in sleepers too but not as often! :angry:


Agreed.

Any I think the Viewliners are the very best design, hands down. Everyone has their own toilet, and how one takes care of it (or not), affects only that person.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2010)

jmbgeg said:


> Screaming, crying or hyperactive children in sleeper cars can disrupt a serene journey.


Screaming, yelling, door slamming, and totally inconsiderate *adults* in sleeper cars constantly disrupting a serene journey.

h34r:


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> could go on about *males with bad aim* who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:


Now hold on a minute Missy, and that's exactly what you HAVE to do, HOLD On!

Of course I raise the seat, (just like every male who posts here, right?) but "aim" is tricky when traveling full speed, or over some rough track at slower speed.


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Pigs that mess up the bathroom and can't even clean up after themselves or flush!This happens in sleepers too but not as often! :angry:
> ...



I have changed my opinion 180 degrees on the toilet in the room, as the Viewliner roomette is configured.

*Y*uck with a cap Y!

Get that stink-factor OUT OF MY ROOM. Ever look at the area "around" the toilet, when the sun is shining in the window? I'll leave that to your imagination.

Let's just say that most males don't hit the target 100% of the time, even when standing still. Now add the train-movement factor in....

I won't go into detail, but put it rather bluntly. "There's pee and pee-spay" everywhere you don't want it to be in a Viewliner roomette. You just might not * notice ** it.*


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## 352 (Aug 17, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.


I'm curious where on the train you'd have her change the kid, I have never seen a changing table on the wolverine line.


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

352 said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.
> ...


'Member, this topic was just _asking_ about pet peeves, not really judging the merits of them, justifying, or explaining reason behind..........

As a father of five, that's the first thing I thought of too. Lord knows I've changed a diaper or two where I didn't _want _ to.

Once you have kids, it's a whole other story on your "level of tolerance" for things other parents do / don't do / put up with.

I can't imagine anyone _liking to hear_ a crying kid for four hours, or four days. But until you have walked-the-walk, (i.e. had kids) it's difficult to empathize with parents who are having "issues" with their kids.

Now, I'm not endorsing the mom/dad who basically "let their kids run rampant" and bug the shi* out of other paying pax, I'd like to slap those parents silly.

But a couple of years after my first kid was born, when I was on a plane alone, and a mom sat next to me with a crying infant, my level of understanding was a on such a different level, it's hard to explain.


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## guest (Aug 17, 2010)

rrdude said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > could go on about *males with bad aim* who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:
> ...


Isn't that what your fancy GPS is for? :lol:


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## PerRock (Aug 17, 2010)

rrdude said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > could go on about *males with bad aim* who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:
> ...


I have come to the conclusion that on a train its better if I just sit down.... I've had a number of "close calls" due to bumps and such, makes life so much easier.

peter


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## fredevad (Aug 17, 2010)

Freckles68 said:


> The fact that the so-called Quiet Car is NEVER QUIET and no one either enforces the rule OR makes the fact that it's the Quiet Car clearly evident at every stop. It doesn't help to just say it at the beginning of the run. Every stop, people get on and have no idea it's the Quiet Car, and the barely audible announcement that the second car is the Quiet Car is USELESS... who actually counts cars and knows which number car they're in?


The quiet cars on the Hiawatha trains are always the last car in the direction of travel. What bugs me is that they are clearly marked with overhead signs and some people either somehow miss the signs or just plain ignore them. This is unusual for when I ride though and the quiet car is normally quiet.

I usually like the quiet cars when traveling alone because I like to listen to the ambient sounds of riding the train. However, sometimes it's not people that are making the quiet car noisy - sometimes it's the car itself. I remember this one trip from MKE to CHI that there was about a 1 - 2 foot piece of trim that had come loose above the luggage rack - the way it rattled and slapped there was no way there would be any quiet.


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## MrFSS (Aug 17, 2010)

PerRock said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


I agree - we were on a tour of Alaska some years ago and the tour director made an announcement to the effect that gentlemen should remain seated for the entire performance.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 17, 2010)

352 said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.
> ...


you could bring a towel and use it over the toilet bench in the bathroom to change the child with. Im with simpythy if the mother is doing everything to try and quit there child but not if they just ignore the problem like it will go away on its on. this wasn't a baby either it was a toddler.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 17, 2010)

Lack of seating assignments in Acela First Class.

Unless you are boarding at WAS, NYP, or BOS endpoints, there is a poor chance that two people traveling together will find seats together in Acela FC. You could have booked weeks or months in advance and it does not matter. Except for the rare instance of a nearly empty train, you have to hope you are among the first to board, and even then it is likely that you will be split up, and it is also likely that one or both of you will be stuck with one of those lousy backwards facing seats across a table from another pair. A trip from PHL to PVD in Acela First will set you back over $200 per person, each way. A round trip for two will be in the neighborhood of $1000. When I'm in that kind of neighborhood, I expect seating to be assigned, not cattle call.


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

MrFSS said:


> I agree - we were on a tour of Alaska some years ago and the tour director made an announcement to the effect that gentlemen should remain seated for the entire performance.


THAT could not have been said any better!


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> 352 said:
> 
> 
> > amtrakwolverine said:
> ...



And your suggestion is RIGHT ON, _most_ parents WILL bring a changing pad or sheet, just for that purpose.


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## dan72 (Aug 17, 2010)

One of my pet peeves has been Amtrak's abysmal attempts at implementing recycling on board. There was a bin in our sleeping car when we were on the SWC last June, but the attendant had it covered up with other items making it unusable. That, and seeing an SA in the dining car throwing away a wine bottle.

If Amtrak is going to tout themselves as being the 'green way to travel' they really need to get their poop in a group on this issue. There's a lot of stuff coming off those trains that ends up in landfills that doesn't need to. I realize they are dealing with many different cities for their refuse and that might be the hang-up here. If anybody has some insights on this, I'd be curious to know. But as an ignorant observer, that's been one of mine. :blink:

Dan


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## TVRM610 (Aug 17, 2010)

rrdude said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > 352 said:
> ...


Put me in the "unsympathetic" camp but changing diapers in public places should just not happen IMHO. And while you can't control an infant when they cry, you can certainly keep a child from running and playing through the train.

On my last ride on the crescent there was a group of kids in the lounge car who were basically treating the booths like a playground while the parents played cards. The lounge attendant finally had enough and put them in their place. Of course there mom got most upset and told other passengers how rude he was. Funny, I thought what he did was perfect. ha.


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## Eric S (Aug 17, 2010)

dan72 said:


> One of my pet peeves has been Amtrak's abysmal attempts at implementing recycling on board. There was a bin in our sleeping car when we were on the SWC last June, but the attendant had it covered up with other items making it unusable. That, and seeing an SA in the dining car throwing away a wine bottle.
> 
> If Amtrak is going to tout themselves as being the 'green way to travel' they really need to get their poop in a group on this issue. There's a lot of stuff coming off those trains that ends up in landfills that doesn't need to. I realize they are dealing with many different cities for their refuse and that might be the hang-up here. If anybody has some insights on this, I'd be curious to know. But as an ignorant observer, that's been one of mine.
> 
> ...


Recently, Amtrak has been adding recycling receptacles in its cafe cars. Perhaps it would be possible to add/convert a recycling receptacle in coach cars as well. Sleeping cars (as currently configured, perhaps new Viewliners will be different) seem to be rather cramped as is, and I'm not sure where a recycling receptacle could be added.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 17, 2010)

guest said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


I _am_ a male, but have mastered the art of using the Automatic Seat Lifter located on the bottom of my shoe whilst in public facilities. :lol:


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## rrdude (Aug 17, 2010)

dan72 said:


> One of my pet peeves has been Amtrak's abysmal attempts at implementing recycling on board. There was a bin in our sleeping car when we were on the SWC last June, but the attendant had it covered up with other items making it unusable. That, and seeing an SA in the dining car throwing away a wine bottle.
> 
> If Amtrak is going to tout themselves as being the 'green way to travel' they really need to get their poop in a group on this issue. There's a lot of stuff coming off those trains that ends up in landfills that doesn't need to. I realize they are dealing with many different cities for their refuse and that might be the hang-up here. If anybody has some insights on this, I'd be curious to know. But as an ignorant observer, that's been one of mine. :blink:
> 
> Dan


You are A #1 right on target with this. If you are going to promote "green" then ACT and enforce your staff to ACT green.


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## AlanB (Aug 17, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


You'll get your wish with the 25 new Viewliner II cars.


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## AlanB (Aug 17, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Lack of seating assignments in Acela First Class.
> 
> Unless you are boarding at WAS, NYP, or BOS endpoints, there is a poor chance that two people traveling together will find seats together in Acela FC. You could have booked weeks or months in advance and it does not matter. Except for the rare instance of a nearly empty train, you have to hope you are among the first to board, and even then it is likely that you will be split up, and it is also likely that one or both of you will be stuck with one of those lousy backwards facing seats across a table from another pair. A trip from PHL to PVD in Acela First will set you back over $200 per person, each way. A round trip for two will be in the neighborhood of $1000. When I'm in that kind of neighborhood, I expect seating to be assigned, not cattle call.


We already know that Amtrak can do this. The software already exists and has been battle tested; it justs needs to be turned back on. And then of course, Amtrak has to find someone who will actually enforce the seating assignments, which is what was probably one of the biggest reasons that they turned the seat selection software off.


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## jis (Aug 17, 2010)

My pet peeves have to do with the various window treatments that Amtrak dreams up. The most common problem is of course, filthy windows. Apparently 6 hours layover in Chicago is not enough time for the maintenance folks in Chicago to manage to clean the windows of the Cardinal, as I discovered last weekend. It is even worse of course when in their infinite wisdom Amtrak decides to wrap a train and half block up the windows in the process, like they have recently done (again) to an Acela set.


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 17, 2010)

First timers complaining endlessly, and then exclaiming "I'm never taking the god **** train again"


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## amamba (Aug 17, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Lack of seating assignments in Acela First Class.
> 
> Unless you are boarding at WAS, NYP, or BOS endpoints, there is a poor chance that two people traveling together will find seats together in Acela FC. You could have booked weeks or months in advance and it does not matter. Except for the rare instance of a nearly empty train, you have to hope you are among the first to board, and even then it is likely that you will be split up, and it is also likely that one or both of you will be stuck with one of those lousy backwards facing seats across a table from another pair. A trip from PHL to PVD in Acela First will set you back over $200 per person, each way. A round trip for two will be in the neighborhood of $1000. When I'm in that kind of neighborhood, I expect seating to be assigned, not cattle call.


I completely agree with this - especially as someone from PVD! TURN ON seat assignments in first class.

When my H and I took our last trip together on acela from PHL-PVD in acela 1st class we were super lucky and actually got one of the tables that has one person on each side and you are facing each other, but otherwise we would have ended up in a foursome like that OR sitting separately. That really sucks when its a 1st class ticket. It is just about impossible on most trains to find two seats together when boarding in PVD, so I think next time we go on a trip, I might pull a crazy move (sounds like something the_traveler would do! :giggle: ) and take a regional up to BOS, hang out in the club acela for a few, then board the acela in BOS so we can get good seats. The cherry on top is of course the extra 100 points (each!) on the PVD-BOS run.


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## AlanB (Aug 17, 2010)

This past weekend I rode a T train from Providence to South Station just to ensure that we got two seats together.

And we also enjoyed the CA for a bit too!


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## Dovecote (Aug 17, 2010)

Acela150 said:


> Riders that don't use headphones on there ipods or laptops. While on AE 2164 back in July there was a family and they all had ipads with no headphones and watching videos on youtube at the loudest level. I politely asked them use headphones or turn it down. I got a polite response of F*&k off.
> 
> Steve


This is one of my pet peeves as well. In fact Amtrak requires that any personal electronic device not make any sound through speakers or earphones that are audible to others. I have on occasions asked either the Car Attendant or Conductor to speak to passengers traveling in my car that are not following this policy. Each time they spoke to the individuals involved and they quickly put their headphones on.


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## amamba (Aug 17, 2010)

AlanB said:


> This past weekend I rode a T train from Providence to South Station just to ensure that we got two seats together.


Now THAT is dedication!! That is a long, slow & crowded ride. Maybe not so bad on the weekend, though.


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## Matthew (Aug 17, 2010)

1) When you are on a train that is running late (stuck on a siding somewhere for 45 mins) and there are no updates from the conductor or crew as to what is going on or when you'll get moving or why you're stuck there. A little info goes a long way!

2) Toilets. Many times on the Acela (esp on early morning trains) the toilets get clogged up and star sloshing around. It's disguising! People that don't flush or clean up the bathrooms on LD trains annoy me as well... it gets nasty in there quite quickly. Showers (maybe even for a small fee) should have been installed in the Coach Superliners to keep the smells down.

3) LD Bedrooms need upgraded bed linens and better pillow. They are far too often in quite sorry state (like 50 Thread Count sheets and flat pillows)! Duvets and nicer linens should be provided as well.

4) Lack of Wifi and TVs on LD trains. This is a MAJOR issue IMHO. I think Amtrak needs to install Wifi on all LD trains and install small TVs (like you have on international flights) in the bedroom and roomettes of LD trains. Maybe DirecTV?


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 17, 2010)

Matthew said:


> 1) When you are on a train that is running late (stuck on a siding somewhere for 45 mins) and there are no updates from the conductor or crew as to what is going on or when you'll get moving or why you're stuck there. A little info goes a long way!


Agreed. However, I think they're trying to work on this as my recent trips had the staff jumping on the PA to alert us to time keeping issues. However, even having a scanner you're only as informed as the indifferent freight dispatchers want you to be.



Matthew said:


> Showers (maybe even for a small fee) should have been installed in the Coach Superliners to keep the smells down.


ABSOLUTELY! What kind of moron thought it was a "perk" to allow people to clean up? It's for _everyone's_ benefit when you are able to wash yourself and get clean. Making coach class suffer only ends up making _everyone_ suffer in the end.



Matthew said:


> 4) Lack of Wifi and TVs on LD trains. This is a MAJOR issue IMHO. I think Amtrak needs to install Wifi on all LD trains and install small TVs (like you have on international flights) in the bedroom and roomettes of LD trains. Maybe DirecTV?


I don't see why they can't put a TV in every seat in coach as well. Except that they all get destroyed by the pax apparently. I wonder how airlines manage to prevent the pax from destroying everything they can get their hands on while Amtrak is apparently helpless to keep their trains from being ransacked by customers and yard hands alike.


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## guest (Aug 17, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > 1) When you are on a train that is running late (stuck on a siding somewhere for 45 mins) and there are no updates from the conductor or crew as to what is going on or when you'll get moving or why you're stuck there. A little info goes a long way!
> ...


To the last point:

maybe because airline passengers are crammed in so tightly and constantly being checked by flight attendants that the person wanting to screw up the equipment doesn't really have the opportunity and perhaps fears getting caught.

On the train, unless there's someone sitting next to you, you can pretty much do what you want to the seat, etc. and people do!

Add: I've seen a lot of stuff screwed up on planes, too, like seatback pockets ripped and recline buttons inoperable.

So the crude slobs among passengers are all over the place, unfortunately. Too bad they can't be identified somehow and automatically assigned to a special car with steel-back benches and toilets like those in public parks!!


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 17, 2010)

When I rode the SWC back in 07 the SSL had tvs but they were disconnected as i tried turning them on.Also the sleeping cars(don't remember if it was superliners or viewliners or both)had little tvs that you could watch pre-programed movies. These have all been removed due to vandalism.


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## LA Resident (Aug 18, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> When I rode the SWC back in 07 the SSL had tvs but they were disconnected as i tried turning them on.Also the sleeping cars(don't remember if it was superliners or viewliners or both)had little tvs that you could watch pre-programed movies. These have all been removed due to vandalism.


The backs of the seats in BC cars on the Pacific Surfliner have had inoperable video screens for years.

It could be the problem is not vandalism perse here, but rather having a dependable person on the train making sure that pre-programmed movies or news channels or whatever were properly loaded and/or received for each trip. Given the inconsistency with which Amtrak keeps up basic housekeeping chores on these trains, like bathroom cleanings and trash removal during quick turnarounds in San Diego, LA or Santa Barbara, perhaps it's a better situation that the screens remain unused! I can just hear the complaints from passengers otherwise!


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## alanh (Aug 18, 2010)

The other issue is licensing fees, which can be substantial. US Airways got rid of all domestic in-flight entertainment to save money on licensing.

Given that most people have portable music and DVD players/laptops, there's not much incentive to install a lot of expensive, fragile equipment that requires ongoing content fees.

WiFi is more likely, though. The main issue is reliable connections in the hinterlands.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 18, 2010)

Amtrak already has the best on board video entertainment system possible-the windows! If folks would fold up the computers, DVDs and such and enjoy the scenery they may well appreciate the ride that much more and learn a thing or 2 about the geography along the route. This is especially true when traveling with children. Fortunately there was no video when I was young and when we traveled (almost always in the car), I spent endless hours with maps looking out the window figuring out where we are and what is coming up.

Of course I can understand the need for business travelers to get work done on board.


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## ayndim (Aug 18, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Amtrak already has the best on board video entertainment system possible-the windows! If folks would fold up the computers, DVDs and such and enjoy the scenery they may well appreciate the ride that much more and learn a thing or 2 about the geography along the route. This is especially true when traveling with children. Fortunately there was no video when I was young and when we traveled (almost always in the car), I spent endless hours with maps looking out the window figuring out where we are and what is coming up.
> 
> Of course I can understand the need for business travelers to get work done on board.


Now that my kids know we are going on a trip, they are more worried about who is getting the window seat than their electronic devices. Well except the camera and the cell phone (to take pics out the window and send to friends!) The only request I have had so far are train books for bedtime stories. Luckily, we have tons of those already.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Amtrak already has the best on board video entertainment system possible-the windows! If folks would fold up the computers, DVDs and such and enjoy the scenery they may well appreciate the ride that much more and learn a thing or 2 about the geography along the route.


Personally I've already traveled through or over West Texas about a hundred times. I don't think there's much more I can glean by watching it from the window of a train, plane, or car. Maybe I could get a new experience by trying to walk across it but I think I've already seen everything Amtrak can show me. For someone like me it would be nice to have something like the Asian airlines provide where you can watch movies or listen to music or play games with your fellow passengers onscreen. I have a phone that can play music and movies but it can only hold so much and it's not quite big enough for two or more people to watch the same movie at the same time as you can with seatback screens. These might sound like minor annoyances, and they are, but there's a reason some of us would prefer more entertainment options. I understand why Amtrak removed the screens. What I still can't quite understand is why Amtrak couldn't keep them safe from abuse in the first place.


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## Dan O (Aug 18, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Once you have kids, it's a whole other story on your "level of tolerance" for things other parents do / don't do / put up with.


So true. I work where I frequently talk to adults for 30-45 minutes. Once in a while they have small kids with them. Unless the kids are running wild, I don't notice that they are fidgeting or getting out of their chairs on occasion. Other workers who do the same job as me, but don't have kids, ask me how I can stand having the kids around. Hey, it's nothing compared to what it's like at my home with 4 kids talking and playing.



rrdude said:


> I can't imagine anyone _liking to hear_ a crying kid for four hours, or four days. But until you have walked-the-walk, (i.e. had kids) it's difficult to empathize with parents who are having "issues" with their kids.....
> 
> But a couple of years after my first kid was born, when I was on a plane alone, and a mom sat next to me with a crying infant, my level of understanding was a on such a different level, it's hard to explain.


Right. Sometimes kids are sick or especially when very young and they can't talk yet are just miserable and there is little you can do to make them happier. Most of the time when we had a baby that seemed inconsolable it was tired or hungry or a combination. You can feed them (sometimes) but not a lot one can do to make them go to sleep.

Dano


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2010)

Agreed.

I was kind of surprised at the hating on kids in BC. BC isn't the quiet car, folks - if you want quiet, move one car to the rear (on Regionals, at least). I don't think that I'll ever have the $$$ for all 3 of us to take a trip in Acela First, but if I did you'd better believe that I'd have my son right there with me every chance I could.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I was kind of surprised at the hating on kids in BC. BC isn't the quiet car, folks - if you want quiet, move one car to the rear (on Regionals, at least). I don't think that I'll ever have the $$$ for all 3 of us to take a trip in Acela First, but if I did you'd better believe that I'd have my son right there with me every chance I could.


I don't think anyone was hating on the actual kids. More like annoyed/disgusted with the _parents_ of those kids and those who endlessly fawn over babies at the expense of their job. There's a difference. And who can blame them? Just look at your post above. You almost sound like you're just itching for a fight with the nearest first class passenger and only your lack of funds has prevented you from repeatedly tempting fate. Personally I don't disagree that your views on acceptable behavior change drastically when you _choose_ to have kids. But not all of us have chosen or will ever choose that path. Not all of us consider procreation our primary purpose in life. Just being around other people's kids is more than enough for me. They're great in small doses, but I don't like being a parent for more than a couple hours at a time. Some of us just want a quiet and peaceful existence and we should have that right without having to constantly fight for it. Not to mention that the "quiet car" appears to be more of a concept than a reality.


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## amamba (Aug 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I was kind of surprised at the hating on kids in BC. BC isn't the quiet car, folks - if you want quiet, move one car to the rear (on Regionals, at least). I don't think that I'll ever have the $$$ for all 3 of us to take a trip in Acela First, but if I did you'd better believe that I'd have my son right there with me every chance I could.


Sure, take your son in acela first class, but then please make sure that he is happy and not running up the aisles or screaming for two hours.

Unfortunately the quiet car in acela doesn't come with booze at my seat, constantly refilled and brought to me by an attendent, nor does it come with 1 or 2 full meals like 1st class. I don't think its too much for the 1st class pax to want peace and quiet in their cars, as well. Lord only knows they pay enough for it.

That being said, I have only been on a few 1st class trips in acela, and there were children on all of them. All of the children were lovely and well behaved and I did not have an issue with them. But I would also have an issue with anyone who was being loud and disruptive, regardless of their age. It could be a drunk businessman and that would annoy me just as much as a crying baby or whiny toddler.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2010)

daxomni said:


> More like annoyed/disgusted with the _parents_ of those kids and those who endlessly fawn over babies at the expense of their job.


What does anyone's job have to do with this?


> You almost sound like you're just itching for a fight with the nearest first class passenger and only your lack of funds has prevented you from repeatedly tempting fate.


I'm not itching for a fight with anyone, but I've got just as much right to be in First/Business as the next guy. At 7 years old, he's pretty good about acting appropriately in public, but hey - sometimes stuff happens. I'll do everything I can to get him to act appropriately, but that's not going to work 100% of the time.


> Some of us just want a quiet and peaceful existence and we should have that right without having to constantly fight for it.


Sorry, you don't have the right the minute you set foot out your front door. If you want peace and quiet, stay home, go to the library or ride in the quiet car.


> Not to mention that the "quiet car" appears to be more of a concept than a reality.


I'd wager you've got as much experience riding in quiet cars as you do most of the other stuff you post here. Having ridden in them enough times, I can assure you that they're far more than a concept.



amamba said:


> I don't think its too much for the 1st class pax to want peace and quiet in their cars, as well. Lord only knows they pay enough for it.


You're not paying for peace and quiet, you're paying for "free" booze and a meal or two, and as you've pointed out they don't serve it in the back, so moving's pretty much not an option for me either. I don't think that it's too much to want for my whole family to travel together, do you?


> But I would also have an issue with anyone who was being loud and disruptive, regardless of their age. It could be a drunk businessman and that would annoy me just as much as a crying baby or whiny toddler.


Agreed. The difference is that the drunk businessman has control over his actions. Kids don't always have that luxury.


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## amamba (Aug 18, 2010)

And just when I thought I could get away from the "mommy wars" by visiting a train message board....


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> What does anyone's job have to do with this?


I was referring to the attendant who chose to focus on the baby at the expense of the frequent traveler. Again, I don't think the other posters were "hating" on kids so much as they were simply annoyed with the irresponsible parents and the scatterbrained attendant consumed with baby fever.



Ryan said:


> I'm not itching for a fight with anyone, but I've got just as much right to be in First/Business as the next guy.


Go back and reread your own post and tell me it doesn't sound as though you were itching to tempt fate.



Ryan said:


> Sorry, you don't have the right the minute you set foot out your front door.


You imply I'm entitled to peace and quiet in my own home, which would be lovely. Unfortunately I have kids screaming through the walls every day of the week. You want to know why? Parents around here pushed long and hard to make it illegal for _any_ apartment to refuse young children. So now we _all_ get to enjoy the screams of children who have no clue how to behave themselves in public. Oh well, I guess I can understand why parents are so upset, there was still a fraction of a percentage of land that their little pawns couldn't reach and it needed to be thoroughly cleansed of any remaining peace and quiet.



Ryan said:


> Having ridden in them enough times, I can assure you that they're far more than a concept.


I never said I rode those cars, I said they don't appear to be the havens of escape you apparently think they are, but thanks for addressing this to me instead of the people who actually complained about it in the first place.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2010)

I implied nothing about your right to peace and quiet inside your own house, as it's well outside the scope of this forum.



daxomni said:


> I never said I rode those cars, I said they don't appear to be the havens of escape you apparently think they are, but thanks for addressing this to me instead of the people who actually complained about it in the first place.


Perhaps you should ride them sometimes, rather than base your opinion on them on a few comments you read on the internet. I ride in them frequently, and can assure you from personal experience that they are in fact the haven of escape that I claim. Sorry, "other people have said they aren't" isn't going to have any persuasion over personal experience.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2010)

It's all interconnected Ryan. The more parents insist on pushing their kids into every possible corner of my life the less tolerant I become. I certainly don't hate kids, they only know what they're taught, but I can get fed up with those parents who turn a blind eye toward their disruptive offspring. I get it, they don't even realize their kids are bothering anyone because they're so conditioned to ignore it. But that's doesn't make it right and it doesn't make related complaints in this thread any less reasonable. If you look at my previous posts you can see I'm not against kids traveling on trains. It's only when parents turn a blind eye or a deaf ear toward their disruptive children or try to use them as pawns to pick a fight with other adults that it really gets to me.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2010)

So by your silence, you admit you were wrong about the Quiet Car, then?



daxomni said:


> The more parents insist on pushing their kids into every possible corner of my life the less tolerant I become.


That's just it - I don't know why you're making this so adversarial, making it out to be some kind of battle between people that have kids and people that don't. I couldn't possibly care less about your thoughts and feelings about kids, I'm not insisting on anything. But if you're going to exist in a world with children, then you can either choose to deal with it or not - it really doesn't impact what I do and where I go with my family one bit. Any problems you have with that are just that: your problem.


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## wyomingtrainlover (Aug 18, 2010)

My only real pet peeve with Amtrak is the lack of Coca-Cola products. For coke lovers, it's very tough to go without. However, on my trip, I bought a 12 pack and had plenty with the ice in the sleeper car.


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## oldtimer (Aug 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> So by your silence, you admit you were wrong about the Quiet Car, then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just remember that having children is hereditary!

If your parents did not have any children the chances are you won't either.


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## had8ley (Aug 18, 2010)

Just two biggies come to mind; the SCA that I never saw between Chicago and Hammond (LA) until 10 minutes outside of Hammond on # 59 and then I really didn't see her. She POUNDED profusely on the door yelling, "You gettin' off here mister?" My sincere hopes that she has found another career to pursue. (My one of only two times that I did not tip) and my biggest is the NYP based crews both on the Crescent and Silver Service who insist on using the diner for a play ground, carrying on and hollering almost as loud as the train whistle at every joke, but will be quick to inform you (without your asking) "We ain't serving now so you can't stay here."

And this is when you've been to the lounge car and have a handful of goodies and are only trying to get back to your room without having said a word.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 18, 2010)

One more Acela gripe. The seat back tray tables. Those are the worst tray tables in captivity. Even when you first figure out how they work and you get them extended and in place, they lean and bounce and make every drink and meal an adventure. On one trip, I propped my leg up on my suitcase so the tray table was resting on my knee. That helped stabilize things, until my leg fell asleep.

Who designed those things? The technology of the tray table is not really cutting edge. The conventional seat back style and the fold into the armrest style are pretty mature designs. Both work well. So, where did Amtrak come up with this rotten design that is shared with the California cars? Amtrak loves tinkering with things, and sometimes they do so until they don't work anymore.


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## Dovecote (Aug 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> So by your silence, you admit you were wrong about the Quiet Car, then?


Don't want to fan the fire here but I have to side with Daxomni on the Quiet Car issue. I have been a frequent traveler on the NEC traveling roundtrip between WAS and NYP on Regional Service trains for several years now. Very few times has any of my trips been without cell phone violators or parties traveling together having loud conversations. Enforcement by conductors was very good for a number of years that I traveled until the Quiet Car itself was relocated from the last car of the consist (where one of the conductors would sit and usually monitor abuse) towards the front of the consist after the Business Class car. Since this relocation, "quiet" in the Quiet Car has progressively gone downhill, at least on my travels, to the point I find it not worth sitting in this car any more if quiet is my main objective.


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## A.J. (Aug 18, 2010)

wyomingtrainlover said:


> My only real pet peeve with Amtrak is the lack of Coca-Cola products. For coke lovers, it's very tough to go without. However, on my trip, I bought a 12 pack and had plenty with the ice in the sleeper car.


as a mt dew fan, i can't say that i agree with you!  however, i have brought at times brought my own anyway, which is not only cheaper, but also saves trekking to the lounge car every time I want one, mostly first thing in the morning when I want to stay in my jammies and enjoy the view. 

I don't know that I would call it a pet peeve, but I really can't stand travelers who treat the onboard staff like junk. that, and people who DON'T LISTEN to the staff. they make announcements for a reason, so when you end up running alongside a moving train, after the conductor announced TWICE that the train wasn't stopping long and you shouldn't go far, it's pretty much your own damn fault.


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## mercedeslove (Aug 18, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I was kind of surprised at the hating on kids in BC. BC isn't the quiet car, folks - if you want quiet, move one car to the rear (on Regionals, at least). I don't think that I'll ever have the $$$ for all 3 of us to take a trip in Acela First, but if I did you'd better believe that I'd have my son right there with me every chance I could.
> ...


THIS! THIS! THIS!

FINALLY! Finally there is someone here with some common sense and isn't all OMG 'how can you hate kids you evil person'. I hate how people think just because you don't want to hear endless screaming of a child and find the banshee annoying that you hate kids. It's well proven our minds are wired to find the sound of a crying/screaming child annoying.

I also hate the 'well you don't have kids so you don't understand'. It's such an ignorant and self-centered thought. There are other people on the train, and yes children will cry but to sit there and say 'but kids do that' and not try to stop it is the most disrespectful thing you can do.

I also hate parents who let their children run like wild animals up and down the cars, especially when it's early and people are still sleeping. Really use your head mom and dad, stop thinking about you and think about others first.

Oh and the sightseeing car and PAX inside said car are not baby sitters, don't leave your brat there and expect people to watch them.

Oh and people who try to smoke in the bathroom. That annoys me too.

I also find myself a bit uncomfortable with prayer at the table during meals. I am not at all religious, so this puts me in a very awkward situation. I am never sure how to react or what I should do.


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## ayndim (Aug 18, 2010)

> I also find myself a bit uncomfortable with prayer at the table during meals. I am not at all religious, so this puts me in a very awkward situation. I am never sure how to react or what I should do.


Our family prays at every meal, at home and in public. We are a family of 4, so we would be at our own table anyway. When I am by myself, I bow my head and pray silently. No need for other diners to hear me ask God to bless my food. When we are together as a family, we do pray aloud and together. As for other diners at the table, I don't expect them to do anything. I would just carry on as normal if I were you. It really doesn't bother me if others talk/eat while I bow my head or even when we pray aloud. When I made the choice to pray in public, I expected that it wouldn't be silent. The only time I had a problem was when someone asked me to pass them something while I was praying. I was a teacher at the time, so I guess I could have been taking a nap with my head down like that, lol.


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## Chepe2022 (Aug 19, 2010)

*A new one for me this year was when we were aboard No.5 and a woman with her three young boys couldn't really keep them contained, somewhat understandably. It was the youngest who made incessant noise for hours on end.*

* *

* The new part was the other passenger in front of us who had enough of the racket, so he decided to create his own by playing country music combined with a Don Henley album on his laptop. He also thought that everyone around liked his choice, how he came to this conclusion I do not know.* :wacko:

* *

* That only made the din worse. Much worse in fact.*

* *

* All the other parts mentioned here earlier stand in my book as well. The poor aim in the bathrooms(is there a problem with sitting down?);rude take two seats type; the abysmal recycling program where we learned that in several instances they had to have it thrown out anyways. Parents with kids don't bug me that much really, unless they are totally out of control.*

* *

* But worst of all are the smoke stops. I support a persons right gto smoke, but does it ever get filthy and then some on those platforms. Plus finding fresh air becomes hard at some stations. *

* *

* Still worth it though!*

* *

* *


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## Ryan (Aug 19, 2010)

Dovecote said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > So by your silence, you admit you were wrong about the Quiet Car, then?
> ...


All I can say is that my experience doesn't match yours - perhaps I'm the luckiest traveller in the world (or you're the most unlucky), but other than a small number of brief transgressions (that have been corrected by fellow pax, not train staff) the quiet cars have been quiet for me.



mercedeslove said:


> FINALLY! Finally there is someone here with some common sense and isn't all OMG 'how can you hate kids you evil person'. I hate how people think just because you don't want to hear endless screaming of a child and find the banshee annoying that you hate kids. It's well proven our minds are wired to find the sound of a crying/screaming child annoying.


I'm having trouble finding where I've said anything of the sort, so I confess I've got no clue what you're talking about.


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## had8ley (Aug 19, 2010)

mercedeslove said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Well stated...I have just a couple of suggestions that may solve a couple of the posted problems. Put $5 smoke detectors in each public potty, much like the airlines, with a sign stating "If you are caught smoking you will be invited to leave the train at the next stop." (Not impossible for those of you who remember "Please don't use while standing in station.')

And a sign on the PPC doors that state "Parents are not allowed to leave children unattended." And no...I didn't sell my first born. :lol:


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## LA Resident (Aug 19, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Im not talking about staff problems or Amtrak problems but things other passengers due that bother you.
> 
> Like coming back from LAX on the SWC the guy behind me had chewing tobacco out and was spitting it into a paper cup.
> 
> Coming home from the gathering on 352 the wolverine this child was crying on and off throughout the whole trip and the mother even changed the child's diaper ON THE SEAT YUCK.


To put the complaints about Amtrak in perspective, check out this interesting discussion of where airlines are going...

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/travel.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/travel/22prac.html?sort=newest


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 19, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> To put the complaints about Amtrak in perspective, check out this interesting discussion of where *airlines* are going...
> 
> http://community.nytimes.com/comments/travel.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/travel/22prac.html?sort=newest


To put that article in perspective, they're talking specifically about Spirit Airlines, which is nothing like any airline most of us have ever flown. It's a bit like Ryanair, but most Americans won't have ever flown them either. At one point they compare Spirit to Costco, which is really confusing to me. Costco is where all costs are up-front and clearly explained and where the customer is generally well compensated whenever something doesn't work out. Spirit is where the customer is nickeled and dimed to death with intentionally tricky pricing schemes and treated like a burden whenever there's a disagreement. Not to mention the vast differences in their compensation, benefits, and legal troubles. The author may be an expert in something, but the travel sector doesn't appear to be where their knowledge lies.


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## darien-l (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the practice of saving seats in the sightseer lounge yet. Some people seem to think it's OK to leave their belongings on the seat and disappear to lunch for an hour and a half. I see this on the #5 out of Denver pretty often: I walk into the sightseer lounge and find lots of empty seats with books, bags, or articles of clothing placed on top of them. Their "owners" are out having breakfast, but apparently wanted to "reserve" their seats for the scenic climb into the Rockies.


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## dlagrua (Aug 19, 2010)

Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.


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## amamba (Aug 19, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.


The problem is that there are often trains with no seats available together for groups of 2-4 people, so they go and set up camp in the cafe car. I don't blame them. I don't think amtrak has that rule on the NEC, and if they do, I have never seen a sign to indicate that the cafe tables are only for those eating food from the cafe. They do have a "no laptop" rule that I noticed the other day, but that might have been on the downeaster and I am getting my point runs confused.


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## daveyb99 (Aug 19, 2010)

I am peeved by the people who think they should be accommodated on a "special" request to board early/board later/depart early/depart later than what they have been ticketed. Stop trying to cheat the system.

I also tire of the ongoing "onboard upgrade" threads. Come On, we all know this is a risky proposition at best. Sometime it works, most times NOT.


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## LA Resident (Aug 19, 2010)

daxomni said:


> LA Resident said:
> 
> 
> > To put the complaints about Amtrak in perspective, check out this interesting discussion of where *airlines* are going...
> ...


From other postings I've read on this forum, I'm reluctant to get into an argument with you.

The comments by all those people in The New York Times blog is about more than just about Spirit Airlines. They reflect the fact that almost all airlines have cut back on service and established fees for everything under the sun, from checked baggage to stand-by to snacks, and on and on and on. Spirit Airlines no longer sits fundamentally different from other airline companies. Rather, it represents the extreme spot on a scale that many other airlines are proceeding towards. Ten years ago, what United, American, et al do today with fees would have been described as outrageous, egregious, extreme, and so forth. Now those terms have moved down the scale to Spirit--for the moment.

I realize that for some people, Amtrak can never do enough to satisfy them, but the trend at Amtrak, in contrast to the airlines, is to improve service, however gradually, and not to add on fee after fee after fee.


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## Jambo Bound (Aug 19, 2010)

The late night zombies who wander the cars.


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## had8ley (Aug 19, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.


This is exactly how the Empire Corridor lost its Cafe service and LSA on the NYP-Albany runs.


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## guestlsa (Aug 19, 2010)

WHY DO THEY SIT AT A DINNER TABLE IF DIRTY? DO U THINK I AM GOING TO MOVE ANY FASTER ?


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## spacecadet (Aug 19, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.


To be fair, even Amtrak calls these "lounge" cars, not "cafe" cars. They're _intended_ to be places for people to sit and relax, not just buy food and eat it. Many of these cars were not even originally configured with booths - booths have just became Amtrak's "standard" lounge seating. But that doesn't mean they're just for eating.

You have a tray table at your seat if you really just want to eat. I suspect that what you really want to do is "lounge", which is the same thing the people you're complaining about are doing - they just got their first. But use of the lounge car is included as part of the fare - you shouldn't need to buy something in the food service area in order to use it.


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## PerRock (Aug 19, 2010)

spacecadet said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.
> ...


ummm then how come the Amfleet Ia say "CAFE" on the side?

Am1 IVb:

http://www.trainweb....afe/20035A.html

Am1 Cap:

http://www.trainweb....afe/28350A.html

Am2 IVb Diner-Lite:

http://www.trainweb....afe/28022A.html

And the Horizons make it even more obvious they want you to eat there they are called "Dinettes"

http://www.trainweb....afe/53505A.html

The Surfliners are Coach/Cafes

http://www.trainweb....cafe/6304A.html

Actually really the only ones that are labled "Lounges" are the Amfleet II 'Amlounge's and the Sightseer Lounges. Even still the lower level of the Sightseers is labled "Cafe" indoors I believe. And on one side of the AmLounges it still says "Dinette"....

Am2 IV Amlounge:

http://www.trainweb....afe/28010A.html

peter

Edit:

Oh and the Acela's are Cafes ("Cafe Acela"):

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/locoshots/acelacoach/3319A.html

The PPCs are "Parlor Cars" which is a lounge....(Definition):

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/locoshots/pacparlor/39972A.html


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 19, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Inconsiderate people that clog up the tables in the cafe car when they are not buying cafe car products. Some of these azzhats sit there the entire trip. *I need to suggest to Amtrak that the Cafe Car tables are for paying cafe customers customers only*. I always see this on the NE corridor trains and it bothers me to no end.


Yeah that will make a lot of people happy, and calling people names doesn't help any argument. Plus your not entitled to a seat in the lounge car, only the seat or room you purchased.


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## had8ley (Aug 19, 2010)

I wonder if anyone has any info on just why Amtrak deleted cafe/lounge, or whatever you want to call it, service on the short NYP-Albany hops. I'm almost positive the ones that super glued themselves to a table, and pretended to be deeply immersed in their work and didn't bother to even buy a cup of coffee, were at least partially responsible for discontinuance of that service. Anybody have the Amtrak PR on it?


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## MattW (Aug 19, 2010)

I read just recently elsewhere that the discontinuation of food service on Empire trains was because NY State wanted to use private contractors, the unions fired back wanting to save jobs, and somehow in the shuffle the food service got cut entirely.

This is just what I've heard and have no source for it...


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## roomette (Aug 19, 2010)

guestlsa said:


> WHY DO THEY SIT AT A DINNER TABLE IF DIRTY? DO U THINK I AM GOING TO MOVE ANY FASTER ?


Perhaps a more accurate Guest Member handle would have been _ScreamingHystercialLSA_

Thank you!


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## PaulM (Aug 19, 2010)

PerRock said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair, even Amtrak calls these "lounge" cars, not "cafe" cars. They're _intended_ to be places for people to sit and relax, not just buy food and eat it. Many of these cars were not even originally configured with booths - booths have just became Amtrak's "standard" lounge seating. But that doesn't mean they're just for eating.
> ...


ummm It must be because they ran out of paint when they substituted them for real lounge cars.

Quote from the LSL timetable:



> Lounge: Sandwiches, snacks and beverages. (Note—Combined Diner/Lounge provides food and beverage service between New York and
> 
> Albany).


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2010)

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Satellite?SnippetName=IBLegacy&pagename=am/AM_Snippet_C/SnippetWrapper&amen=Lounge

Lounge, Dinette, Cafe and Snack Cars

Informal Dining Options

On many trains not offering formal Dining Car service, food service is often available in Lounge, Dinette, Cafe, and Snack Cars from early morning to late evening. Hours of operation vary depending on train operation.

On these cars, we offer a variety of carry-out style foods, including soups and salads, beverages, pizza, sandwiches, and other snacks. On some trains, ready-to-go tray meals are available.

Credit cards (MasterCard, American Express, Visa and Discover) are accepted for payment in Cafe Cars on all trains that offer food service.

*Seating for Meals and Socializing*

*Lounge and Cafe Cars provide roomy tables and comfortable, casual seating for enjoying your meals, writing, playing a hand of cards or a board game, or just sharing time with friends, family and new acquaintances.*

Onboard Entertainment

Typically, any onboard entertainment offered on your train takes place in the train's Lounge Car.

Accessibility

On some long-distance trains, people using wheelchairs may transfer to and from the Lounge Car at appropriate station stops; ask your onboard service attendant to make the necessary arrangements.


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## PaulM (Aug 19, 2010)

Guest said:


> *Seating for Meals and Socializing*
> 
> *Lounge and Cafe Cars provide roomy tables and comfortable, casual seating for enjoying your meals, writing, playing a hand of cards or a board game, or just sharing time with friends, family and new acquaintances.*


Wow! That sounds nice. Maybe I'll give the train a try next time.


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## rtabern (Aug 20, 2010)

PerRock said:


> no offence to rtabern; but personally I dislike the ongoing announced 'ramblings' of the trails & rails on the EB. Mind you I do like the fact that they are on and usually know a fair bit about what we are seeing, but does it have to be blared throughout the entire car at top volume (I guess if you wanted people to hear it it does...)? I think my favorite T&R presentation was a park ranger who came in and set up a little hands-on museum display thing about Lewis & Clark; and the Rangers on board during Glacier were nice. But the guy rambling on about cattle farming as we went across the Montana was really quite annoying.


No offense taken... however... I challenge you to come on one of my 6 remaining trips this season (and possibly ever) and tell me you didn't have a good time. Aug23-24, Sep12-13, Sep19-20. Go ahead and PM if you can make it!! If you ride and dont have a good time, I'll buy you a couple of drinks on me!!!

However, like I said in another recent post -- your T&R experience all depends on who you have. My group has about 50 people, and I'd only say about 10 of the guides are really good at it. Volunteers range from folks like myself who put hours and hours of research and make their own props and script and know when to talk and when to shut up -- and you have other guys who are just on for the free meals and hotels and ramble for hours about every branch line we cross.


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## AlanB (Aug 20, 2010)

had8ley said:


> I wonder if anyone has any info on just why Amtrak deleted cafe/lounge, or whatever you want to call it, service on the short NYP-Albany hops. I'm almost positive the ones that super glued themselves to a table, and pretended to be deeply immersed in their work and didn't bother to even buy a cup of coffee, were at least partially responsible for discontinuance of that service. Anybody have the Amtrak PR on it?


Food sales on that corridor were dismal at best. Most passenger if they ate any food during their 2-1/2 hour trip, it was food that they brought with them. Many people even carried their own coffee onboard, purchased else where.

So when Congress ordered Amtrak to cut the food service losses, cutting this was a logical choice. Especially since it allowed Amtrak to eliminate the commisary in Albany.

It probably also doesn't help that NY State gets this train service for Free. They pay nothing towards it, Amtrak foots the entire bill. Perhaps if NY decided to pay something, or even pay for the cafe cars, then food would return. After all the Keystone's don't have food service either, and that's because PA doesn't want to pay for it.

Unfortunately it now means that the longer trains have no place to restock along their runs. The Maple Leaf is almost always out of most food items by the time it hits Scranton on the return trip. When the commisary still existed in ALB, at least one could get dinner upon departure from ALB, even if it was a late one.

On my recent trip home from Toronto, I had dinner about 5:00 PM and my dinner was the breakfast sandwich, because I didn't want the only other choice he had left.


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## AlanB (Aug 20, 2010)

MattW said:


> I read just recently elsewhere that the discontinuation of food service on Empire trains was because NY State wanted to use private contractors, the unions fired back wanting to save jobs, and somehow in the shuffle the food service got cut entirely.
> 
> This is just what I've heard and have no source for it...


No, that's not entirely correct.

Food service had already gone bye-bye on ALB-NYP trains. The State then decided to try contracting out food service and picked Subway Resturants to run the service. That lasted maybe 2 or 3 days at most, before the protests by unions shut it down.


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## inspiration100 (Aug 20, 2010)

people running around in flip flops. I don't want to hear the flip flopping of the shoes, I don't want to smell your feet, I don't want to look at your feet and I don't think they are safe on a train.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 20, 2010)

AlanB said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > I read just recently elsewhere that the discontinuation of food service on Empire trains was because NY State wanted to use private contractors, the unions fired back wanting to save jobs, and somehow in the shuffle the food service got cut entirely.
> ...


One correction: the experiment using Subway as a food service contractor on the Empire Service was initiated by Amtrak. The State of New York was not involved. The program was the idea of then Amtrak Vice President of Marketing and Sales, Barbara Richardson. Subway paid Amtrak to lease space in the cafe car, and then was responsible to cater and staff the car. The program got a good response from passengers.

To say the Amtrak unions "protested" is to be kind. The issue was actual threats and intimidation to the Subway workers, many of whom were teenagers. They scared those kids to death. Amtrak decided to pull the plug on the program rather than go to the mat with the unions over this issue.

I also have to qualify the statement that the State of New York gets the Empire Service for free. The reason the Empire Service trains are Amtrak funded is that the service dates back to Amtrak Day One. That is the same reason that a portion of the Pacific Surfliner service is Amtrak funded. However, Amtrak does get use of about 60 miles of track owned, operated and maintained by the State of New York at very little if any cost. So, the state does contribute to the Empire Service in a sort of back door manner.


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## had8ley (Aug 20, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Unfortunately it now means that the longer trains have no place to restock along their runs. The Maple Leaf is almost always out of most food items by the time it hits Scranton on the return trip. When the commisary still existed in ALB, at least one could get dinner upon departure from ALB, even if it was a late one.
> 
> On my recent trip home from Toronto, I had dinner about 5:00 PM and my dinner was the breakfast sandwich, because I didn't want the only other choice he had left.


The sad part of this is they could put a locked freezer somewhere in the Albany station with emergency re-fills. The tourist lines even have freezers in some of their baggage/power cars. If Amtrak wanted to bolster sales I would think day after day sell outs would induce them to do something besides watching people having to eat breakfast for dinner :unsure:

P.S. Does the Maple Leaf go through Scranton, PA ???


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## dlagrua (Aug 20, 2010)

> Yeah that will make a lot of people happy, and calling people names doesn't help any argument. Plus your not entitled to a seat in the lounge car, only the seat or room you purchased.


I am not talking about a lounge car but the cafe car used on the NE corridor trains. It is a lunch counter that serves sandwiches, light fare, coffee and drinks. You pay for everything that you purchase and the car has tables and booths. If a passenger buys a snadwich and a drink, they ARE entitied to eat at a table.

If you went into a fast food place and noticed that all of the tables were full and that people not eating or drinking anything would be staying there for hours how would you feel?. If it were my place I'd throw the lousy inconsiderate azzhats out. Thre is something in this world called manners. Its a shame that you do not understand this and I question what your upbringing was like. Were you taught anything about manners?


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## Ryan (Aug 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> > Yeah that will make a lot of people happy, and calling people names doesn't help any argument. Plus your not entitled to a seat in the lounge car, only the seat or room you purchased.
> 
> 
> I am not talking about a lounge car but the cafe car used on the NE corridor trains. It is a lunch counter that serves sandwiches, light fare, coffee and drinks. You pay for everything that you purchase and the car has tables and booths. If a passenger buys a snadwich and a drink, they ARE entitied to eat at a table.


Sure, there's a table conveniently located right at your seat.



> If you went into a fast food place and noticed that all of the tables were full and that people not eating or drinking anything would be staying there for hours how would you feel?.


That doesn't matter, since we're talking about Amtrak pet peeves, not fast food restaurant pet peeves.


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## Chepe2022 (Aug 20, 2010)

My normal routine for any trip under five hours is to sit solely in the lounge/cafe car, whether its the Cascades, Starlate or CZ's.

I usually go right to the car immediately after boarding. I don't mind sharing my table, but in some cases I have been unfortunate to get a jesus freak or a nut of some type. So, I try and be careful as to who sits next to me. I always size people up when they enter the car, and then I start hoping for the best.

I also buy my fair share from the cafe guy, and give a good tip if their attitude is good. Plus, I try and notify the AC or conductor to tell them my seat is available for someone else.

Funny thing about this situation on long runs over five hours(when I like to keep my coach seat), often I come back to my seat to find someone else taking it. Doesn't perturb me if they are nice when I wake 'em up or ask them politely to leave, but for some reason a few seem to think they are Gods gift to the world and cannot believe I would want to sit in my own seat at their own inconvienence.

Asshats is too nice of a name for them, imo. More like throw 'em off the train whenever and wherever is what I say! :lol:


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> > Yeah that will make a lot of people happy, and calling people names doesn't help any argument. Plus your not entitled to a seat in the lounge car, only the seat or room you purchased.
> 
> 
> I am not talking about a lounge car but the cafe car used on the NE corridor trains. It is a lunch counter that serves sandwiches, light fare, coffee and drinks. You pay for everything that you purchase and the car has tables and booths. If a passenger buys a snadwich and a drink, they ARE entitied to eat at a table.
> ...


and your the one taking about manners, last I heard insulting someones parents is a not a very mannerly thing to do.

Also lets see what the Amtrak website has to say about it.

"Lounge and Cafe Cars provide roomy tables and comfortable, casual seating for enjoying your meals, writing, playing a hand of cards or a board game, or just sharing time with friends, family and new acquaintances."

No where do I see entitlement to table to eat at in the cafe car.

Also the terms of transportation

"Each passenger paying a fare will be entitled to a seat, to the extent coach seats are available."

"Passengers are entitled to one seat per fare, to ensure other paying passengers are not excluded."

"Unless specific seats are assigned, seating is on a first come - first served basis. On unreserved trains there are no guaranteed seats."

Again, no where do I see entitlement to table to eat at in the cafe car.


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## PaulM (Aug 20, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> The reason the Empire Service trains are Amtrak funded is that the service dates back to Amtrak Day One.


I'm sure CHI-STL service dates back to Amtrak Day One. But the state of Illinois still pays for all but the Texas Eagle.


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## AlanB (Aug 20, 2010)

had8ley said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately it now means that the longer trains have no place to restock along their runs. The Maple Leaf is almost always out of most food items by the time it hits Scranton on the return trip.
> ...


Oops! 

It was late when I wrote that, I knew it began with an "s" and all I could think of was Scranton and Schenectady at the time, and I knew it wasn't the latter.

It should of course by Syracuse.


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## newby (Aug 20, 2010)

Was on the CZ last month and there was one car that had a nasty stench. The horrific sweat and body odor eminating from that car was unbearable and unfortunately, the car was on our way to the lounge car. It is hard to hold ones breath from one end to the other, but I did it several times. NASTY!


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## inspiration100 (Aug 21, 2010)

Sorry, it was probably my car lol.


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## spacecadet (Aug 21, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I am not talking about a lounge car but the cafe car used on the NE corridor trains. It is a lunch counter that serves sandwiches, light fare, coffee and drinks.


There is no distinction. They are all lounge/cafe cars. Amtrak does not make a distinction between them. (I am not saying there's no difference between different lounge/cafe cars, I am saying they all serve the same purpose to Amtrak.) You can talk about what they paint on the side of the car all you want; the fact is Amtrak uses the terms interchangeably. And I guarantee you that half the cars that say "cafe" on them right now said "lounge" at one point and vice versa, with no change in the internal configuration of the cars.



> You pay for everything that you purchase and the car has tables and booths. If a passenger buys a snadwich and a drink, they ARE entitied to eat at a table. If you went into a fast food place and noticed that all of the tables were full and that people not eating or drinking anything would be staying there for hours how would you feel?.


Not the same thing.

Outside of a train, people have any number of places they can sit and socialize without buying anything. You can go to a park. You can go to someone's house. You can go to the mall and just wander around. You can't do that on the train. You have one place to go, and that's the lounge car.

This is why Amtrak wrote what they did on their site about the purpose of the lounge/cafe cars, which someone else quoted already. Note that they say lounge AND cafe cars provide seating for socializing; not only cars labeled "lounge" cars.

And as I said already, everyone is paying for the use of the lounge car as part of their ticket (and as part of their taxes). Paying for food in the lounge car entitles you to eat that food; it does not entitle you to a seat any more than any other paying customer on the train. You're not paying $5 for a seat when you buy a hamburger; you're paying $5 for a hamburger.


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## Superliner (Aug 22, 2010)

My biggest pet peeve would be, parents that do not control their children from running up and down the aisles! My recent trip, on the CZ, had a couple of them running back and forth to the Sightseer Lounge Car (directly in front of my Coach) about every 10 minutes.


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## inspiration100 (Aug 22, 2010)

I think it is only fair to post this as I have read tons of posts about children and the parents not controlling the kids: I completely understand and relate to these being people's pet peeves but I want to tell you my story.

I was raised on Amtrak practically. We were not (still arn't  ) a wealthy family by any means but my mother had a love for traveling which has been passed down for sure. Being raised in Seattle, we have the two main long distant routes, EB and CS. My mother was raised in Minnesota so she would frequent the Empire Builder to go see family and friends on that train. Me being a toddler, I was lucky enough to get to go such a long distance on the train. I was never a big fan of Thomas The Tank Engine since I was lucky enough to actually get to *RIDE the REAL *train. No fictional stuff for me, I got to live it. I remember telling my friends just what the train was like and they were amazed. 2 floors? No WAY! We always road coach and I had never done Sleeper until a couple years ago and of course I'm hooked on that, too.

I guess why I am typing this is to try and explain to those who don't want to deal with kids scremaing and running and what not. What I am trying to say is that the impressions that kids get on a train lasts a lifetime. I am probably a train fanatic because *I was brought up with it *and loved every minute of it. I know in the early 1990's people had to put up with me screaming, crying, crawling and running around the train too. I was not A.D.D. or anything, but all kids need to move around and LOVE attention. Because people were willing to put up with me when I was young, I am now a lifelong train rider. Remember that these kids you have to "deal with" right now very well might be the next generation conductor or head of Amtrak. I kid you not.

I would encourage everyone to be greatful for the young people who get the chance to experience the train at such an early age. They will be addicted just like the rest of us since it will be ingrained as a childhood memory just like mine. Some day, they might get the chance to serve you on an L.D. train. I know it is hard to put up with, but seriously, they are the next generation of train "gurus".


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 22, 2010)

How would you feel trying to sleep in coach or sleeper and have a child run screaming through the halls over and over while the parents ignored them. They may be a future generation of railfans but they need to be kept under controlled to some extent.Try to keep them busy.


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## ayndim (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm a parent of 3 kids. I'm divorced and have them 99% of the time. I am also about 4 months from finishing my BCBA classes. My children would never be allowed to run through the halls/aisles and I doubt they would even try it. Why? Because they know there would be consequences to their ill behavior and they wouldn't like it. Getting children to respect the parents rules takes work. It doesn't happen magically. They tested the boundaries, I stuck to my rules and they learned. They still test the boundaries. It is part of growing up. I love electronics. A child starts to misbehave, mom eyes the kid's (cell phone/ds/psp/wii) and the behavior never happens. I once threw my daughters phone out the car window when she slapped her cell phone in my hand after I asked for it when she started getting mouthy. All my kids remember this and don't want it to happen to their stuff. They certainly don't want to risk mom throwing their stuff out a moving train. And yes I would do it if the conductor said I could. Certainly my kids aren't perfect but I don't tolerate poor behavior. My youngest has ADHD and ODD, so I don't accept the my kids has ADHD line or kids will be kids. We manage it with behavior modifcation and no meds. I didn't run wild, my kids don't run wild. The kids with autism I work with don't run wild. All it takes is to be a parent. You know make rules and enforce them. Too many parents don't want their kids to be mad at them. I personally consider it a compliment when my kids get mad at me. Means I'm doing my job. They still love me.

More importantly, there is praise for their good behavior. In my experience, most behavior problems in children without special needs is from desiring parent attention. Praise meets a need for attention. That kid running down the aisle is looking for attention from the parent who is ignoring them. Why isn't the parent reading them a book or something. If they ignore poor behavior, it is likely they ignore the kid at other times. Behavior is learned. If the child has gotten by with it in the past, they will continue in the future. Behavior serves a function and is either increased or decreased according to the consequence. So if the parent has the behavior of sitting on their butt while their child terrorizes the train and no one does anything then the parent gets peace and continues to ignore the kid. However, if the parent was told control your child or you will be asked to leave (and the conductor follows through), then said parent will not do it again if they want to take the train. It isn't really the child's behavior that is the problem. It is the parents! Of course kids need to move. That is when the parent can take them for a walk through the train. You can't just let them run on their own. I can't imagine it is safe to have a kid running in the train.

I really hate to see children not behaving as they should. Why? Because my big mouth would feel inclined to talk to the parents. I would tell them much of what I said above and then some. And it seems they don't like the truth. Your child isn't the problem, your parenting skills are.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2010)

inspiration100 said:


> I think it is only fair to post this as I have read tons of posts about children and the parents not controlling the kids: I completely understand and relate to these being people's pet peeves but I want to tell you my story.


I read your story. The kids crying and screaming and running around today are the future rail passengers or staff tomorrow. And to that I ask, how would expecting them to behave and be quiet _STOP_ them from being the future rail passengers or staff? I believe you're presenting a false choice. We can have well behaved kids today who still become train fans tomorrow. In any case I'm not so wedded to Amtrak's future that I'm willing to put up with spoiled brats today on the off chance they might keep riding in the future.


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## rrdude (Aug 22, 2010)

Bumping my head on the lowered upper berth when sitting up to put my slippers on, like I JUST DID at 8:38AM EST on the EB! )&)^(%%$&$R%@

My own dang fault tho, I knew it was there. Can't believe how much better the bathrooms are on these Beach Grove refurbed sleepers. I have to believe it's the same physical amount of space, but they feel twice as spacious as the original ones.

The Builder has been everything most posters have written about, only two hours late now, an hour + west of the Twin Cities.

Alas, my son doesn't share the enthusiasm I have, although there was a twinkle of it last nite, as he pointed out the numerous fires east of Williston, ND.

Anyone know what they are? Are they oil-field related? VERY black smoke, saw at least three of them, miles apart from each other........


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## inspiration100 (Aug 22, 2010)

daxomni said:


> inspiration100 said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is only fair to post this as I have read tons of posts about children and the parents not controlling the kids: I completely understand and relate to these being people's pet peeves but I want to tell you my story.
> ...


I completely agree, but even the most well behaved kids will need to move around a bit on a 2 day train trip. I'm not saying that the parents are doing their jobs. I'm just suggesting that passengers do give the KIDS the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, someone put up with me walking through the trains (I just loved to walk through the cars when I was younger, pushing the button door and what not). Granted, I don't think I ever screamed once. I'm sure everyone else has done something when they were younger that they wouldn't do when they are older. Give the KIDS the benefit of the doubt and take it up with the parents. Just be happy we have youth riding the train.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 22, 2010)

If they want to explore the train fine just keep a eye on them. don't let your kids run around un-supervised is all we ask. Asking kids to behave is not going to stop them from riding Amtrak again. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids actions. Kids will be kids does not cut it. If the train has a SSL take them there with a laptop or books or just let them hang out there supervised. Is that too much to ask.


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## Dan O (Aug 22, 2010)

*If they want to explore the train fine just keep a eye on them. don't let your kids run around un-supervised is all we ask.*

Depending on their ages, kids walking around the train unsupervised should not be a problem. Older kids can behave and make a trip to the bathrooms, lounge car or snack bar w/o parental supervision. Younger kids are a different situation.

* Asking kids to behave is not going to stop them from riding Amtrak again. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids actions.*

True.

* Kids will be kids does not cut it.*

Younger kids do have to get up and move around some, getting off and running around when the train makes stops and moving more than most adults probably would on the train. Babies do tend to cry when they are tired and hungry and unfortunately fatigue and hunger are not uncommon when traveling, whether by train or other modes of transportation. To expect babies and children to act like adults is unreasonable. To expect them to behave is reasonable.

I have ridden commuter trains and Amtrak a bit and in my experience it has been adults that have been more irritating than kids. Usually adults greatly outnumber kids so maybe that's the reason.

Dan


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## BigRedEO (Sep 21, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...



I guess I'm the only guy who sits no matter what I have to do when I use the toilet on a train, simply because I know there's the possibility of being thrown off balance if I stand.


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## George Harris (Sep 21, 2010)

Chepe2022 said:


> My normal routine for any trip under five hours is to sit solely in the lounge/cafe car, whether its the Cascades, Starlate or CZ's.
> I usually go right to the car immediately after boarding. I don't mind sharing my table, but in some cases I have been unfortunate to get a jesus freak or a nut of some type. So, I try and be careful as to who sits next to me. I always size people up when they enter the car, and then I start hoping for the best.


One of my pet peeves is someone that feels entitled to a seat in teh lounge/cafe car.

newss flash: The car is there for people to buy food/drinks, eat/imbibe, and then go back to there seats so there is space for others to do likewise.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 21, 2010)

TVRM610 said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > amtrakwolverine said:
> ...



I have run into moms like that at stores who let their kids run wild while they shop. And when I tell their kids to cool it because they're in a public place, if the mother tells me I have no right, I give it right back to her and tell her that SHE has no right to inflict her kids on people when out in public. I tell her that my mom had seven kids to raise and there is no way she would have put up with the behavior that her kids were showing and that she taught us to respect other people when we were out in public!


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## PerRock (Sep 21, 2010)

George Harris said:


> Chepe2022 said:
> 
> 
> > My normal routine for any trip under five hours is to sit solely in the lounge/cafe car, whether its the Cascades, Starlate or CZ's.
> ...


So then why do they put tables & chairs (and power outlets) in the lounge car if no one is supposed to sit there?

peter


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## boxcar479 (Sep 21, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I'm going to chime in as well on the pigs who don't clean up after themselves in the shower. These are the creatures who will throw their towels on the floor and not in the bag, sling water everywhere and not dry up after themselves and leave slimy soap bars in the stall. I could go on about males with bad aim who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:


ME TOO! the only thing I can add to that is Hairy slimy soap bars. I always clean up after myself and usually others as well.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 22, 2010)

boxcar817 said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to chime in as well on the pigs who don't clean up after themselves in the shower. These are the creatures who will throw their towels on the floor and not in the bag, sling water everywhere and not dry up after themselves and leave slimy soap bars in the stall. I could go on about males with bad aim who leave the seat down but will leave it at that :angry2:
> ...


That's one of the reasons I bring my own body wash, shampoo, etc.


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## Jersey Jeff (Sep 23, 2010)

My biggest gripe is trying to find a seat on a sold-out train and getting a dirty look from the other passenger when you ask if the aisle seat next to him is taken. Then that passenger has to get up to use the restroom every 45 minutes due to age/medical condition and I am awakened from my peaceful nap.

The only other problem I've ever had with passengers were with a pair of senior citizens in the roommette next to mine on the Crescent who thought that arising at 5 a.m. and then complaining to each other LOUDLY in the hallway as they slammed their doors and tottered down the hall to lodge additional noisy complaints with the SCA was proper behavior.


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## Monon81 (Sep 23, 2010)

Jersey Jeff said:


> My biggest gripe is trying to find a seat on a sold-out train and getting a dirty look from the other passenger when you ask if the aisle seat next to him is taken. Then that passenger has to get up to use the restroom every 45 minutes due to age/medical condition and I am awakened from my peaceful nap.


Sheesh! Perhaps around the third trip to the loo, one can suggest trading seats.

On a St. Louis-bound train a couple of summers ago, I watched a conductor rope off a block of 8 seats for a youth group, which boarded in Joliet. One member of the group moved to an unoccupied seat and sprawled over the pair. The next time he came through, conductor moved him back to the group and gave him a stern lecture. If he was going to the effort to keep a group together, he was also going to make sure a couple boarding later could sit together. (There was, and they did.) Kudos to the conductor.

Last time on #50 (Eastbound Cardinal) to Cincinnati, I asked my seat-mate where he was going. He said Charlestown, WV. So I switched to the aisle seat so as not to have to climb over him at 0300.


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## terry cripe (Sep 23, 2010)

My pet peeve is the reverse of many others: adults who talk loudly while using vocabulary I'd rather not try to explain to children sitting nearby.

Terry


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## TVRM610 (Sep 23, 2010)

terry cripe said:


> My pet peeve is the reverse of many others: adults who talk loudly while using vocabulary I'd rather not try to explain to children sitting nearby.
> 
> Terry


Agreed! I've heard coach attendants get after passengers for language but guess what happens when the coach attendants leave the car.. even MORE language directed at Amtrak crew now. Keeps the train travel.. "interesting" doesn't it?


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## lthanlon (Sep 23, 2010)

My pet peeve is the vociferous cadre of recently retired teachers I always seem to be seated next to in the dining car. Miss Brooks and Mr Novak From Hell complain endlessly about Kids Today and yearn for the time when they could haul off and beat children into submission. The best way I've found to shut them up is to ask why, with so many elected officials genuflecting to the NEA, their union allowed this to happen.


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## ayndim (Sep 23, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > rrdude said:
> ...


While I understand the intentions, please rethink it. You have no idea of what is going on. The child may have autism, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or another special needs that cannot be seen. One of the interventions is extinction. You could actually be reinforcing behavior that is put on extinction. Obviously, this causes setbacks and they can be major. While I agree it is rare that it is behavior therapist and a client you just don't know. I actually had it happen not long ago. A gentleman came up, with well meaning intentions, and told my client "you need to listen to your mommy." I wanted to cry. It may also be a reaction to or a change of meds. You have no idea what these parents go through. They have to shop, often can't leave the kid with anyone else. I work with these parents and btw I am one of these parents. Just happens I have more tools because of my profession and I am so used to be stared at when I have my clients I don't care what people think. But believe me when you have to change meds it is a nightmare. But we still have to eat, have toilet paper, etc. If just one person would have came up and asked if everything was okay or did I need help, I would have broke down in tears and been grateful. While other cases is just not making kids respect and obey the parents and those around, you can't really change that. And honestly they aren't your kids. If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.


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## PaulM (Sep 23, 2010)

Jersey Jeff said:


> The only other problem I've ever had with passengers were with a pair of senior citizens in the roommette next to mine on the Crescent who thought that arising at 5 a.m. and then complaining to each other LOUDLY in the hallway as they slammed their doors and tottered down the hall to lodge additional noisy complaints with the SCA was proper behavior.


Now that you mention it, my biggest pet peeve is noise in sleeping cars. But I won't single out any age group. Often it is the "friendly" SCA who seem to have to carry on a conversation during late night or early morning stops. Stops are especially bad since there isn't the background noise of a moving train to mask the conversation.


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## PaulM (Sep 24, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> My pet peeve is the vociferous cadre of recently retired teachers I always seem to be seated next to in the dining car. Miss Brooks and Mr Novak From Hell complain endlessly about Kids Today and yearn for the time when they could haul off and beat children into submission. The best way I've found to shut them up is to ask why, with so many elected officials genuflecting to the NEA, their union allowed this to happen.


I'll admit to being a two-time loser in the teaching game, but I don't recall encountering this problem in the dining car.

But your rhetorical question about teachers allowing this to happen is one I've asked myself for a long time. I suspect it was a case of teachers figuring that if they didn't hold students to a standard, the students wouldn't hold them to one.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 24, 2010)

ayndim said:


> If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.


and that's the problem today. While you maybe standing up for it A train is no place for kids to run around and play hid and seek and other-stuff. How would you feel if we ignored your kids cause you didn't like someone trying to clam them down and later find out they got there toes cut off in between the cars. KEEP YOUR KIDS SAFE AND UNDER CONTROL ON A TRAIN. if they have medical problems fine ALL THE MORE REASON TO KEEP THEM UNDER CONTROL. Don't let your kids play in between the cars or with the doors. I don't want to see a child get hurt or killed cause a parent could care less. I see that all the time on the news. Its also a great way to get your kids kidnapped. they wander into another car while you argue with someone who tried intervene and another person walks off with the kid. CHILD ABUSE IS EVERYONE'S BUSINESS.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 24, 2010)

... child abuse?


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## train person (Sep 24, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Its also a great way to get your kids kidnapped. they wander into another car while you argue with someone who tried intervene and another person walks off with the kid. CHILD ABUSE IS EVERYONE'S BUSINESS.


So how many kids have been kidnapped on trains? Did you get kidnapped on a train back in the day?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 24, 2010)

ayndim said:


> You have no idea of what is going on. The child may have autism, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or another special needs that cannot be seen.


From what I'm hearing rates of mental disorders in American children are increasing far faster than anything which could be explained by improved diagnosis alone. So what's actually going on and why are American children experiencing mental deficiencies in greater numbers than children in other developed nations?


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## MattW (Sep 24, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> My pet peeve is the vociferous cadre of recently retired teachers I always seem to be seated next to in the dining car. Miss Brooks and Mr Novak From Hell complain endlessly about Kids Today and yearn for the time when they could haul off and beat children into submission. The best way I've found to shut them up is to ask why, with so many elected officials genuflecting to the NEA, their union allowed this to happen.


Well maybe they were from Georgia which specifically disallows teacher's unions...


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## rrdude (Sep 24, 2010)

train person said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Its also a great way to get your kids kidnapped. they wander into another car while you argue with someone who tried intervene and another person walks off with the kid. CHILD ABUSE IS EVERYONE'S BUSINESS.
> ...


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## BigRedEO (Sep 24, 2010)

terry cripe said:


> My pet peeve is the reverse of many others: adults who talk loudly while using vocabulary I'd rather not try to explain to children sitting nearby.
> 
> Terry


Oh God, you just reminded me of this idiot in the SSL on the Cap Ltd once when I was going from Harpers Ferry back to Cleveland. He kept loudly telling racist and gay jokes to his friends and was beginning to upset people around me. I was about to say something when he finally left.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 24, 2010)

> And honestly they aren't your kids. If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.


I've finally gotten to the age where I can say "I remember when." Autism is one thing and having an autistic cousin, I would recognize the symptoms. But I think ADD, et al is simply a manifestation of the institutionalized pharmacopoeia running our country and parents using medication as a way to handle/excuse their kids. "I remember when" I was a kid and you did not only what your parents told you, but you did what all the parents on the street/in the neighborhood told you and if you talked back, your parents were going to hear about. Now with our litigious medicated society, we have raised a generation suffering from the Entitlement syndrome.


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## Ryan (Sep 24, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> > And honestly they aren't your kids. If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.
> 
> 
> I've finally gotten to the age where I can say "I remember when." Autism is one thing and having an autistic cousin, I would recognize the symptoms. But I think ADD, et al is simply a manifestation of the institutionalized pharmacopoeia running our country and parents using medication as a way to handle/excuse their kids. "I remember when" I was a kid and you did not only what your parents told you, but you did what all the parents on the street/in the neighborhood told you and if you talked back, your parents were going to hear about. Now with our litigious medicated society, we have raised a generation suffering from the Entitlement syndrome.


This really isn't the forum for it, and I don't disagree that it's overdiagnosed and overmedicated, but ADD/ADHD certainly is a real medical condition requiring medication in some cases.


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## L (Sep 24, 2010)

darien-l said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the practice of saving seats in the sightseer lounge yet. Some people seem to think it's OK to leave their belongings on the seat and disappear to lunch for an hour and a half. I see this on the #5 out of Denver pretty often: I walk into the sightseer lounge and find lots of empty seats with books, bags, or articles of clothing placed on top of them. Their "owners" are out having breakfast, but apparently wanted to "reserve" their seats for the scenic climb into the Rockies.



Yes, I agree with you, how would you all handle this situation?? Would it be really tacky to wait 10 or so mins and then just move their stuff and sit down?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 24, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> I think ADD, et al is simply a manifestation of the institutionalized pharmacopoeia running our country and parents using medication as a way to handle/excuse their kids. Now with our litigious medicated society, we have raised a generation suffering from the Entitlement syndrome.


Interesting theory but I don't quite follow you. For instance, how do you explain countries with far _more_ entitlement programs having far _fewer_ cases diagnosed? How exactly has treatment become the indirect cause of improper diagnosis at the same time that litigation has supposedly skyrocketed? Wouldn't improper diagnosis and over-medication become a substantial liability in an increasingly litigious society?


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## ayndim (Sep 24, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> ayndim said:
> 
> 
> > If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.
> ...


My children are respectful and under control usually. I say usually because I do have a child with a mental diagnoses. When he is having a maladaptive behavior, I am there. I do not walk away and it is pretty obvious I am not oblivious. It is more frequent with my clients. With my own child, I see the precursors/antecendents and if on a train (or other place that could be unsafe) I stop it. However, this is not the best for teaching replacement behaviors. In my opinion, removing a child who is having a fit in the store (usually because they want something or to go home) is reinforcing the child's behavior. Usually so is attention, so getting a stranger to say something just makes it worse. Say no, ignore the whinning and finish your shopping. You cannot control a child with autism, bipolar, schizophrenia or even ADHD without a lot of intervention. I would rather see a child have a fit in a store, not get their way and learn from it. If you do this enough, the child will stop. With some disorders you need to treat first (i.e., bipolar, ADHD, etc)then use behavior therapy. While others behavior therapy is the first line. It has worked with my own child and we usually only have problems if meds need to be changed/have been changed. If anyone is wondering but doesn't want to ask he has mood disorder-nos (a nice way of not labeling a 7 year-old bipolar yet) with possible adhd.

The train isn't the store. The post I was referring to was in a store. A child, regardless of diagnosis, cannot be allowed to run around. I would inform the conductor (assuming he/she hasn't already noticed). Because no matter what you say when you have a parent who doesn't follow through 1) the kid isn't going to change and 2) the parents aren't going to do anything. Believe me. I have parents who come to me who want me to "fix" their kid who won't listen. I work with so-called typical kids too. When I tell them that the child isn't the problem - they are - some of them are never heard from again. So I know not everything is a disorer/disease. Some children's behavior is just a result of it getting them what they want.


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## ayndim (Sep 24, 2010)

Ryan said:


> BigRedEO said:
> 
> 
> > > And honestly they aren't your kids. If someone told my child to cool it, I would tell them that I will handle my own child and walk away.
> ...


I agree with both statements. Many children with adhd/add are just being kids, testing the boundaries. Once you have seen a kid with what I refer to as real ADHD, you know ADHD. It makes your jaw drop and you say "that is adhd." It is so obvious. Harder to see when it is comorbid with another disorder (like autism) but in a child with no other disorder it is in your face.


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