# Would you fly RT between Europe and USA for less than $500?



## Blackwolf (Feb 14, 2014)

Even if it meant traveling:


with no amenities,
crammed like a sardine into an all-coach plane,
with non-union Asian pilots and non-union US cabin crew,
on an airline taking a page from the cruise industry and operating from a "flag of convenience" country (Ireland in this case,) with no oversight and shady business practices?



> Norwegian Air Shuttle, the third-largest budget airline in Europe, has been ruffling the travel industry’s feathers for months with the rollout of new international routes with exceptionally cheap fares: Think under $500 for round trips to Europe from the U.S., with all mandatory taxes and fees included. For travelers who have come to expect to pay several hundred dollars merely for the “taxes and fees” portion of their transatlantic flight tabs, these flights look like phenomenal bargains


.
http://business.time.com/2014/02/13/an-ultra-cheap-anti-union-upstart-airline-could-transform-flying/?hpt=hp_t3


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 14, 2014)

Sure. In a heartbeat. I have flown the supposedly "best" and "most comfortable" airlines and in coach/economy its all the same uncomfortable for me. YMMV but I have not been able to have a "comfortable" 10-hour flight as such in any of the 7 good airlines I have tried so far, so might as well save few hundred dollars and be done with it for cheap.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 14, 2014)

Texan Eagle said:


> Sure. In a heartbeat. I have flown the supposedly "best" and "most comfortable" airlines and in coach/economy its all the same uncomfortable for me. YMMV but I have not been able to have a "comfortable" 10-hour flight as such in any of the 7 good airlines I have tried so far, so might as well save few hundred dollars and be done with it for cheap.


Agreed.

When you're flying ex-USA in coach the difference between the best airline and the worst airline is surprisingly slim. Better to choose based on routing, scheduling, and price than to chase any particular brand.



Blackwolf said:


> Even if it meant traveling:
> 
> 
> with no amenities,
> ...


What amenities do you normally get in coach?

What airline doesn't cram you in like a sardine?

Some of the best airlines in the world are non-union.

Even an unsafe airline is safer than the trip to the airport.

I recently purchased three tickets to Europe for this summer. Even with "free" reward tickets it cost me $500 in additional cash. If I had paid for everything in cash it would have been ten times that amount. Although the economy section of the Norwegian Air Shuttle does not look that appealing the premium economy section on their 787's would probably work fine for me. To be perfectly frank I've been waiting for a true LCC to gain some lasting traction across the Atlantic. Even if you never plan to fly this particular airline it might end up paying dividends in the form of lower prices on other carriers.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 14, 2014)

I read about this a few days ago and it reminds me of the old _*Loftleiðir *_"Hippe Airline" that use to advertise in the back of travel magazines. Fares were cheap, amenities were none and most of the flying was done on trapped out DC-6s, Canadair CL-44s and eventually DC-8s.


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## jis (Feb 14, 2014)

Blackwolf said:


> Even if it meant traveling:
> 
> 
> with no amenities,
> ...


Specially considering that all those flights will be on 787s, absolutely! I'd go in a heartbeat. Consider this.... the seats are wider than in many run of the mill translantic so called "reputable" airlines. The cabin pressure is higher and humidity is higher, and those lovely huge windows!

Do you think I really care about the union membership status of the crew? I have no idea for most airlines I fly. I just assume some are unionized and some aren't and I couldn't care less.

Irish civil aviation authority has actually very good reputation, and the operations will be under their oversight. So I have no problem with that. And any flight to US is by its very nature under FAA oversight also.



OlympianHiawatha said:


> I read about this a few days ago and it reminds me of the old _*Loftleiðir *_"Hippe Airline" that use to advertise in the back of travel magazines. Fares were cheap, amenities were none and most of the flying was done on trapped out DC-6s, Canadair CL-44s and eventually DC-8s.


Remember _Laker Skytrain_ between London Gatwick and New York JFK flown by their DC-10s? Changed the world of transatlantic aviation irrevocably, and caused the collapse of the Bermuda I agreement and the negotiation of Bermuda II and undermined the British government supported monopoly status of _BA_. Turned British commercial aviation policy on its head for all practical purposes. And then it collapsed spectacularly in a bankruptcy after the DC-10s were grounded following the Chicago accident.


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## cirdan (Feb 14, 2014)

Most airline food is pretty miserable anyway. I wouldn't really call it a plus any more. I wouldn't mind bringing my own food if it slashed a couple of hundred $ off the ticket price. Some of the big airlines really need to get off their high horse and if a new player is getting into the market to shake it up a bit, I'm all for it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 14, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I read about this a few days ago and it reminds me of the old _*Loftleiðir *_"Hippe Airline" that use to advertise in the back of travel magazines. Fares were cheap, amenities were none and most of the flying was done on trapped out DC-6s, Canadair CL-44s and eventually DC-8s.


These days it's the legacies who are flying old beat-up aircraft with few if any amenities. A few start-up airlines have tried offering business class cabins for typical economy class fares found on legacies. Now that's a model I would like to see takeoff, no pun intended.


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## xyzzy (Feb 14, 2014)

I fly to Europe once or twice every month. It's only a matter of time until somebody brings the Southwest/EasyJet business model to transatlantic travel. That's what Laker and PeopleExpress were all about. Amenities in transatlantic Y are almost non-existent already on any airline. Yes you can get a meal, but note that some airlines don't provide Y meals on 8-hour nonstops between the east/midwest and Hawaii. Nobody has died from starvation yet. As airlines pack 10-abreast into 777s with thin seats at 30-31 inch pitch, they've created a sardine class already. I'm not that buzzed about pilots... anybody who flies commuter airlines in the U.S. has already gotten over that.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 14, 2014)

If they can build the Tunnel/Bridge across the Bering Strait then we can take the train to Europe-the long way about


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes, in a New York Minute!As a Veteran of Laker DC-10 Sky Train Flights between New york and London, I'd even fly on a Military Transport if it was Cheaper than the Cattle Car Flights that the so called Name Airlines are filling with Sardines, er Passengers @ High Prices!

I've taken some Flights in Mexico Back in the Day, that in in Retrospect I wouldn't take Today! Classic Examples, The Captain was drinking Brandy with the Passengers while his 16 year Old Son and "Co-Pilot" Flew the Small Plane on a Flight from Tepic to Guadalajara! The Kids Fueling the Plane before we left were Smoking Cigarettes while doing so!  Another time Areo-Mexico had Overbooked the Mexico City-Acapulco Shuttle Flights so when the Pride of the Fleet DC-10 Landed from New York , they took the Several Hundred waiting Passengers @ the Mexico City Airport and Loaded us up, including Standees!  ,Taxied out and Rolled the Entire Length of the High Altitude Runway, Staggered into the Air and did a Drive it Down "Hot" Landing into the Small Acapulco Airport! (Free Drinks were Served!) We ran off the Runway and had to be towed out of the Sand but no-one was Injured and we headed for town looking for Fun in all the Right places!Damn that Tequila was good! 

After this, whenever I was going to Mexico I would fly one of the American (Braniff/American/Continential)or Canadian Airlines to Mexico ride the Trains and Bus whenever I could and avoided the Mexican Airlines! Yes, Mexico used to have a fairl;y Decent, Cheap Train System even if they were Slow and used Equipment that makes Amtrak's Heritage Baggage Cars and Diners seem like Brand New factory Fresh Equipment! ^_^ )


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## beautifulplanet (Feb 17, 2014)

Flying with Norwegian Long Haul - for less than US $500 round-trip - for many, it might seem amazing.

For example,

March 2, LAX - CPN: $197.60

March 18, CPN - LAX: $241.00

total: $438.60 (excluding checked baggage, seat reservation and onboard meals)

+ 2 times "plus" package (1 piece of checked baggage, seat reservation and onboard meals)

= $616.60

For some, maybe seat reservation and meals are not even needed, as they just bring their own food, and water is available for free.

In that case, checked baggage by itself is just 42.00$ per one-way, so 84.00$ for round-trip, so a total of only $522.60.

For comparison's sake, other offers LAX-CPN for the same travel dates start at $860+ with American/British Airways, and that's already cheap for California to Europe...  

It seems like with Norwegian Long Haul, one can travel transatlantically comparatively cheaply.



Blackwolf said:


> Even if it meant traveling:
> 
> 
> with no amenities,


As a low-fare airline, baggage, seat reservation and meals onboard are not included.

Still, personal video entertainment and the all the standard amenities of brandnew Boing Dreamliner aircraft is always included, in addition to the nice leather seat interior and of course free water.

For 89$ per one-way (on California - Scandinavia trips), "plus" can be booked, consisting of:

Nice&Tasty Menu
(breakfast + dinner)
Seat reservation
1 pcs baggage

So it seems like amenities are not bad, especially not bad when booking plus or ordering snacks outside of the Plus package.



Blackwolf said:


> crammed like a sardine into an all-coach plane,


Obviously, being a low-fare airline, people looking for business and first class, have come to the wrong place.

Still, the "sardine" comparison is way off.

Lots of air carriers still use planes with 30 inch seat pitch.

No matter if it's major US airlines using 30 inch seat pitch for westcoast-eastcoast flights, or if it is AirBerlin on their new Airbus A330-200.

In opposition to that, Norwegian offers 31 inch seat pitch, like lots of other airlines (British Airways, Air France, KLM etc.) also do.

Of course, 32 inches would be nicer, but this is supposed to be low-fare air service, and it might be better than most other transatlantic carriers in Economy.



Blackwolf said:


> with non-union Asian pilots and non-union US cabin crew,
> on an airline taking a page from the cruise industry and operating from a "flag of convenience" country (Ireland in this case,) with no oversight and shady business practices?


In which way does Norwegian have "shady business practices"? Yes, they have cabin crew and pilots who are not Norwegian citizens, and who are not member in a union. But does that make the airline conduct "shady business practices"? Then some US airlines must be shady as well.



Blackwolf said:


> > Norwegian Air Shuttle, the third-largest budget airline in Europe, has been ruffling the travel industry’s feathers for months with the rollout of new international routes with exceptionally cheap fares: Think under $500 for round trips to Europe from the U.S., with all mandatory taxes and fees included. For travelers who have come to expect to pay several hundred dollars merely for the “taxes and fees” portion of their transatlantic flight tabs, these flights look like phenomenal bargains
> 
> 
> .
> http://business.time.com/2014/02/13/an-ultra-cheap-anti-union-upstart-airline-could-transform-flying/?hpt=hp_t3


Generally, it seems like Time offers good reporting, here it seems weird how "upstart" is being used in the headline, still it right away states as well that this airline is the third-largest budget airline in Europe. It exists since 1993, so in case the time of operation is what should constitute "upstart", then JetBlue is more of an upstart than Norwegian. The "upstart" part is possibly referring to the long-haul business, still even the first transatlantic flight took place in May of last year, and meanwhile Norwegian offers transatlantic service from and to quite a lot of US and European cities, so it's not an upstart like Norwegian would just start with it, now, in February 2014, or even later.

The news may be, that up to now long-haul service is offered to and from several Scandinavian cities only, while in 2014 the flights to and from London Gatwick will start, so Norwegian long-haul will not only offer competition to SAS, but to a lot more airlines like British Airways, American, Delta etc. and it will enable Americans a cheap way to travel to England, in addition to the cheap way to travel to Scandinavia that exists now.

Still, the Time article did not get all of that across so clearly.

To answer the initial question:

Would you fly RT between Europe and USA for less than $500?

It seems some of those that already flew long-haul with Norwegian since May 2013, can answer this question with yes. The only limitiation being that by far not all fares are below $500 round-trip. Still they will be significantly cheaper in most cases, than all other airlines on the same routes.

It appears also in the future, the number who would fly Norwegian long-haul is going to increase steadily.

For people who wanna get to Europe cheaply (as no transatlantic rail connection exists yet  ), for example in order to experience some affordable high-speed rail services in Europe,  it seems like Norwegian long-haul can be recommended.


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