# Canadian delayed almost 48 hours - potential new schedule coming.



## Lonestar648 (May 29, 2018)

I was watching #1 coming into Vancouver this weekend that was almost 48 hours late. Then I read that VIA canceled two departures to try to recover, give crews needed rest, and crews time to fix mechanical issues, and try to get departures back to leaving on time. Not able to confirm, but heard that VIA maybe redoing the schedule to build in more time for delays in an attempt to have more on time arrivals.


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## MikefromCrete (May 29, 2018)

VIA switched to a longer schedule several years ago, an even longer schedule will just let CN screw 'em some more.


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## bmjhagen9426 (May 30, 2018)

The solution is not schedule lengthening, but consist shortening or siding lengthening. The Canadian freight trains are simply too long, longer than the US counterparts, that they just won't fit the sidings.


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## Anderson (May 30, 2018)

There have been rumors about the schedule being changed and/or the train being re-routed through upper Ontario for some time. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in them...especially since no amount of schedule tweaking is going to fix a 48-hour delay.


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## MSP_Train_Hopper (May 30, 2018)

It does indeed look like a new schedule for The Canadian may be in the works. According to their President & CEO:

 “At VIA Rail, nothing is more important than the safety and security of our passengers and employees. That is why we are currently working with our infrastructure partner on a new schedule, to start during the peak summer period, that will provide a longer but more predictable travel time,” added Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano.

I am personally wondering how much they will lengthen the schedule by. Last April I rode westbound and we were more or less on time until a broken rail delayed us 6 hrs just east of Vancouver. When I rode eastbound this past April we consistently lost time and arrived in Toronto 12 hours late.


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## Seaboard92 (May 30, 2018)

What VIA needs is the statutory power that Amtrak has over the freight railroads for priority. That alone would give them a legal right t force CN to play more fair. Lengthening the schedule does nothing but harm the train itself. And rewards CN for poor behavior.


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## cpotisch (May 30, 2018)

Is a 48 hour delay pretty much unheard of there? I know that 12 or even 20 hour delays on the Canadian are not even remotely uncommon, but 48 hours just sounds ridiculous, even by VIA's standards.


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## zephyr17 (May 30, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Is a 48 hour delay pretty much unheard of there? I know that 12 or even 20 hour delays on the Canadian are not even remotely uncommon, but 48 hours just sounds ridiculous, even by VIA's Canadian National's standards.


Correcting to point out the actual culprit.


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## cpotisch (May 30, 2018)

zephyr17 said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Is a 48 hour delay pretty much unheard of there? I know that 12 or even 20 hour delays on the Canadian are not even remotely uncommon, but 48 hours just sounds ridiculous, even by VIA's Canadian National's standards.
> ...


I wasn't talking about who's actually to blame. Just talking about the Canadian's OTP, which isn't exactly stellar.


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## zephyr17 (May 30, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


What do you think I was referring to? The Canadian's OTP problem is due to Canadian National's dispatching. Via has no control over the on time performance of the Canadian on the road. Via would love to run on time, their standards are fine, they just can't do much about them except beg CN.

And, no, a 48 hour delay is far from unheard of, especially this last year.


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## Palmetto (May 30, 2018)

There is not a lot that a dispatcher can do if the railroad mandates extremely long trains. And when two of the monsters are on the subdivision, something's got to give, and it's going to the be the train that fits in a siding. That's always VIA. As someone above pointed out, the train lengths on the CN are the real culprit here. VIA has put up with this nonsense for so long now that one has to wonder whether it really cares about on time performance of not.


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## zephyr17 (May 30, 2018)

Well, yes, train length is a huge issue, I was talking about dispatching in a very general sense, inclusive of the operating philosophy, not the individual dispatcher (or RTC in Canadian parlance). Although I can give you an example of some pretty poor indiviual dispatching that stabbed the Canadian. I am thinking particularly of a time when I was not on the train, but had the opportunity to fan a 15 hour late #1 north of Kamloops. The dispatcher put the Canadian in the first siding north of Kamloops, only a few miles from the North Kamloops yard, and let the already late train sit for 45 minutes waiting for a maid-of-all-work manifest freight with a lot of empties. They couldn't have held the freight in the yard for 15 more minutes to let the Canadian clear?

The thing is is that CN can't handle just 4-6 passenger trains a week anywhere close to on time. So their freight operations also must be hugely snarled by the same issue. I understand it is catching up to them, shippers are growing unhappy, and they are starting to invest in longer sidings, but that takes awhile.

Another little mentioned issue besides the train length and being held forever in a siding while multiple trains are fleeted by, is sometimes the Canadian takes forever to negotiate yards. Edmonton, I'm looking at you.

Via doesn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter about putting up with it. Amtrak has at least a few levers at its disposal that it can use to pressure the host railroads and has used them (I seem to remember Amtrak suing UP a few years ago for instance). Via pretty much has nothing and is truly at the mercy of CN, unless the Canadian Parliament steps up and finally gives Via a statutory foundation that would include some teeth as to operating precedence (unlike Amtrak-NRPC, Via was not established by legislation, but was created by the Canadian equivalent of an executive order). Via's only option, aside from putting up with it, is really is not to run at all, a decision which would be greeted with joy by CN.

I am gratified to hear that they are at last in negotiation with CN on a new schedule. However, note that Via already extended the schedule by like 12 hours a few years ago to make the train more reliable, so now CN will get more slack and in few years it'll be hours late on the new extended "reliable" schedule, again.


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## zephyr17 (May 30, 2018)

BTW, I am planning to ride it again in late October. I ordinarily would book about now, but based on the news there may be a new schedule I am going to hold off and see if the new schedule gets released some time soon. I was planning to leave a three day layover in Toronto as buffer for a days late train, but depending on the new schedule, I may not and only put in my usual overnight layover. It also depends on whether or not they add another whole night to the schedule rather than just going to a significantly earlier departure from Vancouver and a significantly later arrival in Toronto and how whatever they do affects the rest of my travel plans.

I also think that CN will somewhat adhere (within 10 or 12 hours anyway) to a new schedule, at least for a while.


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## Lonestar648 (May 30, 2018)

I am planning to travel late January, was going to commit later in June but wonder how much the schedule will change? like departure days, etc. I would enjoy the extra time on the train, but the recent extreme delays on both ends makes planning difficult for a fun and relaxing journey.


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## MikefromCrete (May 31, 2018)

zephyr17 said:


> BTW, I am planning to ride it again in late October. I ordinarily would book about now, but based on the news there may be a new schedule I am going to hold off and see if the new schedule gets released some time soon. I was planning to leave a three day layover in Toronto as buffer for a days late train, but depending on the new schedule, I may not and only put in my usual overnight layover. It also depends on whether or not they add another whole night to the schedule rather than just going to a significantly earlier departure from Vancouver and a significantly later arrival in Toronto and how whatever they do affects the rest of my travel plans.
> 
> I also think that CN will somewhat adhere (within 10 or 12 hours anyway) to a new schedule, at least for a while.


CN will do whatever it wants to do. Neither VIA or anybody else can make them cooperate. VIA needs Parliament to make new laws to force CN to do the right thing.


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## railiner (May 31, 2018)

Reading all these horror stories about the CN stabbing the Canadian, had me expecting the worst, on my overnight excursion to Jonquiere last week. But I was pleasantly surprised by how well they treated our trains, at least on that line, which is no where near as busy, I suppose. They even held a freight on the main, to let us go around it thru the yards, on the return trip. Amazing!


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## NS VIA Fan (May 31, 2018)

railiner said:


> Reading all these horror stories about the CN stabbing the Canadian, had me expecting the worst, on my overnight excursion to Jonquiere last week. But I was pleasantly surprised by how well they treated our trains, at least on that line, which is no where near as busy, I suppose. They even held a freight on the main, to let us go around it thru the yards, on the return trip. Amazing!


Yes the handling of the Canadian is an embarrassment.....but it is only 4 to 6 departures per week (depending on the season) of the 500 other trains VIA operates each week which generally run close to or on time......and most of these are dispatched by CN. As I write this.....both the e/b and w/b Oceans are ontime in eastern Quebec.


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## GBNorman (May 31, 2018)

Maybe it's time to simply drop the funny papers they call a "schedule" and simply "run it when we run it".

If you are pre-booked, say for a given Run#, you will get notified with hopefully a 24 hour "window" as to when your train will show.

Right now, it is probably costing VIA "a loon or two" lodging passengers who showed up on time, but the train is anything but.

Finally, I realize this sounds a bit like in service and being "deployed" overseas. Very simply, they tell you when you are leaving. There is no calling up and saying "hello Pan Am, when can I get a flight to Saigon...."?


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## MikefromCrete (May 31, 2018)

The problem is that CN is trying to put too many trans on not enough tracks. Most of the passlng sidings are too short to handle CN's long trains. The railroad needs to invest in longer sidings and expansion of two track sections. Of course CN is more interested in its low operating ratio and feeding big profits to its Wall Street masters.


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## Lonestar648 (May 31, 2018)

Until the CN customers start being unhappy, finding alternate shippers, CN has no incentive to improve its infrastructure. Of course the Canadian government could get involved, but that could go badly too, if they say it is easier to eliminate the train since it is mostly a tourist train.


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## jis (May 31, 2018)

Isn't the Canadian an essential service train that happens to carry tourists too?


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## zephyr17 (May 31, 2018)

Lonestar648 said:


> Until the CN customers start being unhappy, finding alternate shippers, CN has no incentive to improve its infrastructure. Of course the Canadian government could get involved, but that could go badly too, if they say it is easier to eliminate the train since it is mostly a tourist train.


I read that that is actually happening, shippers getting unhappy with delays, and CN has announced a program to increase siding lengths and some double tracking. But that will take awhile.

The Canadian does provide essential service in areas that are not road served, particularly in northern Ontario. It is not classed as an "essential services" train though, like the the Sudbury-White River run, to my knowledge. However, it is an icon, and there is support for it, so I think getting rid of it entirely would at stir some controversy. Not many countries put a picture of a specific passenger train on their money (the $10 note has the Canadian on the reverse side).


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## Seaboard92 (May 31, 2018)

The Ocean benefits from having a route where it's the only train for a very long distance. Of course that could cause a problem if any part of that line were to wash out or have an issue.


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## Dakota 400 (May 31, 2018)

I keep vacillating about booking The Canadian. I almost was ready to do so, then recent stories of more and longer delays. Don't mind being delayed in route, but it is "the what does one do at the destination and for on-going travel plans" for such prolonged delays?

Are customers being lost by VIA Rail? If so, might that not encourage them to prod the Canadian Parliament to "do something" for the benefit of Canadian tourism?


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## Lonestar648 (May 31, 2018)

I don't know if the delays had anything to do with it, but I noticed that a number of sold out departure dates this summer now have full availability.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 1, 2018)

I'm glad I rode _The Canadian_ back when it was only a few hours late and had not yet become the unmitigated dumpster fire it is today. I'm not sure what VIA hopes to gain by "negotiating" from a position of extreme weakness. CN can do whatever they want no matter how it affects VIA and regardless of what anyone else happens to think about it. At this point VIA's only lasting hope is to enlist the help of their government.


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## Lonestar648 (Jun 1, 2018)

I am scared to see what the new schedule will be for this winter when we are planning to make the trip, though maybe since the schedule will be new, CN will try to keep the train on time for the short term.


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## railiner (Jun 1, 2018)

Whatever VIA offers this fall, during the off-peak season, I am determined to make the trip...while I still have the chance. The nice thing about being retired is no worries about getting there or back on time...


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## Anderson (Jun 1, 2018)

If CN doesn't even make a pretense of keeping the new schedule for a while, then VIA might have grounds to hit them for negotiating in bad faith. I don't pretend to know how such a case would go, but my guess is that they'll make a passing attempt to keep the new schedule for at least a season.


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## railiner (Jun 1, 2018)

I wonder, what would the result be, if VIA simply asked CN what the schedule should be (and not accepting "no train at all" as an answer); a schedule that CN felt they could reliably maintain?

And once agreement over it was reached, have some kind of penalty/reward incentive for fulfilling it?

I suppose CN would not trap themselves into such an agreement, no matter how reasonable it might look...


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## zephyr17 (Jun 1, 2018)

Interesting article on the subject in Railway Age:

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/whats-holding-up-vias-canadian/

Not any more real info though.


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## Lonestar648 (Jun 1, 2018)

So if they lengthen the schedule will they still be able to run three departures each week each way?


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## zephyr17 (Jun 1, 2018)

Just have to see. The current (aspirational) same day turn in Toronto may be issue


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## Lonestar648 (Jun 8, 2018)

It didn't take long after the two cancellations to get the system back to normal, for CN to delay VIA Canadian so much that #1 is departing Toronto almost 24 hours late again. I would think this is a major embarrassment for the Canadian government who depends on foreign travelers, especially in the summer.


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## railiner (Jun 8, 2018)

Maybe that is CN's strategy....to get some government handouts for more double tracking or longer sidings?


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## caravanman (Jun 9, 2018)

bmjhagen9426 said:


> The solution is not schedule lengthening, but consist shortening or siding lengthening. The Canadian freight trains are simply too long, longer than the US counterparts, that they just won't fit the sidings.


If the freight train can pull clear of the entry to a siding, the VIA train can enter the (shortish) siding. The Freight train reverses to clear the front of the siding, and the VIA train can pull out ahead of the freight. Not ever going to happen in the real world, but I want commission if it does!


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## cpotisch (Jun 9, 2018)

caravanman said:


> bmjhagen9426 said:
> 
> 
> > The solution is not schedule lengthening, but consist shortening or siding lengthening. The Canadian freight trains are simply too long, longer than the US counterparts, that they just won't fit the sidings.
> ...


Doesn't work if the VIA train can't fit into the siding, though.


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## jis (Jun 9, 2018)

Looks like VIA basically needs to increase the turn in Toronto to overnight and take the kl\lumps using 5 consists to run three times a week service., or something like that. Individual trains will perhaps not be as long as they have been when fewer consists could suffice.


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## railiner (Jun 9, 2018)

And CN should shorten their consists to a more manageable length, as well. I remember what a great job the old Rio Grande did on getting trains over its road, by running them,

"fast, short, and frequent"....


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 9, 2018)

Railroading has changed since the days of the Rio Grande. It's all ran for the Wall Street Hedge Fund investors now and they want to do the maximum amount without paying the most amount of money.

For those on Wall Street who have never worked on a railroad in their life they ask "why can't we merge these two trains Into one and pay just one crew." What they fail to realize is that different sidings are different lengths and most of the super trains can't fit.

They also fail to realize that draw bars can only take so much weight before they start to give, of course management blames the crew. But it's next to impossible to run a train that's stretched out over two or more hills. And when the freight pulls a knuckle or a draw bar it stops up the entire line.

So the main issue is we are running for Wall Street we aren't running a railroad in the traditional sense anymore.


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## MikefromCrete (Jun 9, 2018)

CN is not going to run shorter trains. That would wreck their precious operating ratio, make the Wall St. boys mad and cut down the executives' bonuses.


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## Lonestar648 (Jun 9, 2018)

CN isn't going to run shorter trains nor will they run fewer since their business is increasing. VIA is stuck losing 24 - 48 hours on each run with no options available to them. Changing the schedule to add 24 hours benefits no one since soon CN dispatchers will start delaying VIA again. So does VIA keep redoing the schedule adding another 24 hours? CN would love for VIA to eliminate the Canadian. Not sure the Canadian citizens would be happy to have their hallmark train, featured on the back of one of their bills, canceled because freight dispatchers can not dispatch the freight trains correctly.


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 9, 2018)

I'm not blaming dispatchers because they have an incredibly hard job. And if anyone wants to see how they would preform I recommend the free computer game Train Dispatcher II to see if they can do any better. I myself am decent at it.

But they are juggling an awful lot of things at one time between trains currently on the territory, broken down trains, trains profiled to run on a territory, effectively managing a single track railroad and keeping it fluid, crew time allowed, and my personal favorite siding length.

To give an example from the game one scenario is the EX Seaboard Airline Main from Richmond Main Street to Raleigh during World War II. You lose one point for every minute of lost running time, and five points for every minute you delay a passenger train. Keep in mind the Seaboard was fielding roughly twelve passenger trains north out of Raleigh, roughly fifteen pairs of freights from locals, to an unknown variety of war extras.

The Seaboard at the time was a CTC bidirectional single track main line, with frequent sidings of varying lengths. The first few times I played this round I had the issue of trying to pass a 5,000 foot freight train with a 1,000 foot passenger train in a 1,500 foot siding. Guess who went in the hole?

The game also has other fun scenarios like Grand Central Rush hour, all metro north lines, and some rather large terminals. I highly recommend it if your computer is compatible


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## Anderson (Jun 14, 2018)

I can't really blame the dispatchers in most cases, but I think we _can_ reasonably blame the railroads for allowing situations like this to both occur and persist for an extended period. Obviously, meltdowns happen on occasion, and I can't blame a railroad for not wanting to turn away presumably high-dollar traffic. I wish that VIA, Amtrak, etc. would get payments to at _least_ cover the resulting passenger inconvenience, if not to make up for some share of lost revenue (fraught with difficulties as such would be), but I can at least understand that lines can get jammed up because Reasons.

What I _can_ blame them for is not turning around and investing either in their physical plant (new double-tracking or additional/longer sidings to accommodate the longer trains) or in their fleet (breaking some two-mile trains into two one-mile trains, albeit at the cost of some of their operating margin). Some blame can also go to the amount of track that has been ripped out over the years (which is not to blame them for all of it...dispatching improvements (such as from computers) and a natural decline in some markets likely justify some reductions on this front, and I think we can also blame the railroads for not trying to negotiate better policies with respect to taxation of tracks.


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 14, 2018)

Anderson said:


> I can't really blame the dispatchers in most cases, but I think we _can_ reasonably blame the railroads for allowing situations like this to both occur and persist for an extended period. Obviously, meltdowns happen on occasion, and I can't blame a railroad for not wanting to turn away presumably high-dollar traffic. I wish that VIA, Amtrak, etc. would get payments to at _least_ cover the resulting passenger inconvenience, if not to make up for some share of lost revenue (fraught with difficulties as such would be), but I can at least understand that lines can get jammed up because Reasons.
> 
> What I _can_ blame them for is not turning around and investing either in their physical plant (new double-tracking or additional/longer sidings to accommodate the longer trains) or in their fleet (breaking some two-mile trains into two one-mile trains, albeit at the cost of some of their operating margin). Some blame can also go to the amount of track that has been ripped out over the years (which is not to blame them for all of it...dispatching improvements (such as from computers) and a natural decline in some markets likely justify some reductions on this front, and I think we can also blame the railroads for not trying to negotiate better policies with respect to taxation of tracks.


I agree with you on everything you've said to a point. The issue as I've stated earlier is you have Wall Street basically calling the shots at the railroad. Which basically means the men on the ground are being forced to do a lot more with a lot less. That's the largest issue here. And unfortunately it will continue to be this way while hedge funds, and large Wall Street investors are calling the shots.

I believe if I'm not mistaken that they are making massive capacity upgrades this summer all over the linen which like the BNSF Hi Line will be difficult with the sheer volume of traffic. The basic moral of the story is Wall Street shouldn't be running a railroad as all they care about is operating ratio. It's a public service and should be operated as such.


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## railiner (Jun 14, 2018)

If it is a public service, perhaps the government should stop the real estate tax, and only collect from them income or sales taxes? And in doing so, require them to invest all of the tax savings back into the track infrastructure.

Would that be a fair solution for both the carrier's and the government?


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## FreeskierInVT (Jun 15, 2018)

Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration.

http://thecanadiantrain.com/

When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July


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## riderails (Jun 15, 2018)

"Don't Ride" seems to be marked by hyperbole, e.g., " I swear the diner must have swayed THREE FEET from side to side and shook violently. Passengers were SCREAMING--and I'm not talking about kids.  Adults were SCREAMING! Profanity was being shouted." One might suspect there is/was more going on here than meets the eye. My experience agrees with that described by OBS Chief.


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## cpotisch (Jun 15, 2018)

FreeskierInVT said:


> Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration.
> 
> http://thecanadiantrain.com/
> 
> When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July


I hate those sites. That person clearly doesn't understand physics and the capabilities of the tracks and train cars. VIA makes it very clear that the Canadian has pretty catastrophic timekeeping, and that passengers should schedule their trip accordingly.

_"I will admit that I have no proof of this, only my gut feeling as someone who has ridden many trains."_

Someone's "gut feeling" is not an objective source. I highly doubt that adults were screaming and the train was literally flying off the tracks. Uncomfortable does not mean unsafe.


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## snvboy (Jun 15, 2018)

Considering the persons budget, and his extreme under-appreciation of the beauty of the wide open plains, I'm curious why he didn't take an excursion with the Rocky Mountaineer instead?


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## Palmetto (Jun 15, 2018)

MikefromCrete said:


> CN is not going to run shorter trains. That would wreck their precious operating ratio, make the Wall St. boys mad and cut down the executives' bonuses.


Are you trying to tell us that it's all about the money? I'm shocked--shocked, I tell you!


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## Dakota 400 (Jun 15, 2018)

This gentleman must never have ridden on the Southwest Chief or the California Zephyr in the Plain States of the United States when the trains were trying to make up time.

What would he have thought about my experience of a C&O Cincinnati to Washington trip? Having dinner shortly after departing Cincinnati, when the Steward placed my cup of soup (on a saucer, thankfully) on the table. a large portion of the soup left the bowl and ended up in the saucer because of the rough tracks and, I suppose, our speed.

Did I feel unsafe in either of these scenarios? No. Trains move!

It's a good thing that his wife and he did not take the train in the Winter. Think of his comments about scenery: snow, snow, snow, followed by more snow.


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## keelhauled (Jun 15, 2018)

FreeskierInVT said:


> Came across this tonight... apparently one passenger was angry enough over a 19 hour delay, they created a website to vent their frustration.
> 
> http://thecanadiantrain.com/
> 
> When I took the train last summer, we were 8-12 hours late. It does reach some fast speeds through the prairies, but I didn't feel unsafe at any point of my 300+ hours on the train last July


Looks like the author of this thread (Trainorders subscription required) is taking his disappointment to extremes I have never before seen...


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## cpotisch (Jun 16, 2018)

keelhauled said:


> Looks like the author of this thread (Trainorders subscription required) is taking his disappointment to extremes I have never before seen...


Sure seems like it...



> I plan on posting more than one thread, about our recent ride on VIA Train No. 2


Really? 5 bucks says this guy ends up on AU soon.



> I don't consider myself a "Rail Fan." I don't chase trains, nor do I profess to know everything about them, like so many others on this site.


You don't know about trains? Then maybe you shouldn't claim to know what their capabilities are, what is safe operation of them, and what the crew are doing.



> Well, the train, scheduled to leave at 8:30pm, did not depart until almost 12:30am--4 hours late--due to the No. 1 arriving very late.


Four hours late? You're already getting riled up about that, despite you literally admitting that that was because the inbound train arrived late.



> What I have never seen discussed here before, is WHAT HAPPENS when these trains get late. What do YOU think happens? Well, what actually happens, is that the engineers try to make up time and they do this by really opening the throttle when they have a clear right of way. Unfortunately, they do this pretty much whenever they can, seemingly with absolutely zero regards for the comfort--or safety--of the passengers and crew.


How do you know that the engineers are recklessly flooring it whenever they get the chance? Were you in there talking to them?



> Mind you, I have ridden the TGF in France


The TGF? Huh?



> We felt like we were riding in a cattle car and that making up time was more important to the crew than the safety, health and comfort of the passengers onboard.


Now you're bringing health into this? And again, by your own admission, you left Vancouver late because the inbound train arrived late. Would you have wished that that train hadn't tried to make up time, even if it meant that you would end up departing even later?


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## Trogdor (Jun 16, 2018)

Interesting as that thread may be (or not), I really don't see the point in bringing that discussion over here, quoting parts of it, then responding to this "you" person who may or may not wind up on this forum. After all, the post on TO is a month and a half old, and they haven't made it over here yet.


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## cpotisch (Jun 16, 2018)

Trogdor said:


> Interesting as that thread may be (or not), I really don't see the point in bringing that discussion over here, quoting parts of it, then responding to this "you" person who may or may not wind up on this forum. After all, the post on TO is a month and a half old, and they haven't made it over here yet.


Point taken. I just get kind of annoyed when people start assuming that the crew is being reckless and unsafe, when they clearly don't care or know much about trains. But yeah, probably doesn't make much sense to go on a rant about it here...


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 17, 2018)

If you think you get annoyed by people doing that CP wait till you get people like me involved. Most railfans, advocates, foamers, etc when I'm working will tell me how to do my job. Yet they've never actually done my job in the first place. And someone like Streamliner from that board falls into that category.

If you don't understand why we do something the way we do just ask. Some of us will say just cause, and others that are more like me will explain to you why we do things a certain way. If you have a suggestion on how to do it better. Some of us will listen and see if it makes sense.

I personally am not openly hostile to new ways of doing things as long as they can be done safely, and more efficiently. But I am openly hostile when people tell me and the crafts how to do our jobs when they've never once done our jobs. The thing is on all of my runs I have I like to take someone under my wing and show them the ropes.

But that's because I was taught by a much older generation how to do things. My lineage goes back to (NC&STL, Southern, Savannah and Atlanta, and Chesapeake and Ohio) of course all two generations ago. My mentor was taught by men from each of those lines. And he In turn taught me their lessons.


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## JRR (Jun 26, 2018)

I loved the Canadian! Being 9 hrs late just gave me that much longer to enjoy the ride!


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## Dakota 400 (Jun 26, 2018)

JRR,

Surely don't disagree with your post. It's the issues that may arise with connection/hotel issues upon de-training that concerns me.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 26, 2018)

I always build in layovers to allow for very late trains. However, that really only allows for trains up to 18 hour late trains. A 24 to 48 late train would mess up my usual allowance.


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## FreeskierInVT (Jun 27, 2018)

The last few runs of the Canadian seemed to be closer to on time than the last month or so. 2(22) even left Edson, AB a few minutes e_arly, _but then sat at Edmonton for 5-1/2 hours. It arrived to Toronto just under 10 hours late but its turn for 1(26) is estimated to leave 3 hours late, better than the 12 hour late departures out of Toronto in weeks past.

During my trip last summer I allowed for an extra day in Toronto after coming east. I had lost my first day in Vancouver due to delays from wildfires in BC but wasn't making a connection there. I also had a (forced) overnight in Jasper connecting to the Skeena, though I would've built in that day anyway with the frequent delays.

Many of my fellow Youth 150 passholders weren't expecting delays like we had, with some trying to make connecting bus transfers at Jasper with as few as 10 minutes between the Canadian's scheduled arrival and the bus departure. Needless to say, that connection didn't happen. One person I talked to who tried this was stranded in Jasper overnight, with no available lodging in town.


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## JRR (Jun 28, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> JRR,
> 
> Surely don't disagree with your post. It's the issues that may arise with connection/hotel issues upon de-training that concerns me.


I agree with you as it affects those actually depending on connections etc. It seemed to me, everyone I talked to was just taking it for the “ride”!


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