# SEPTA/Philadelphia Questions



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 16, 2016)

I will be in Philadelphia from December 17-21 and have a few questions about SEPTA and related transit.

1. My hotel is right next to Jefferson station. Would it be easier to take Regional Rail or the Market-Frankford Line from 30th Street station with 2 suitcases and a small bag? Is there any cost difference? If it matters, I will be arriving about 5 PM on a Saturday and leaving at 12 PM on a Wednesday.

2. What type of ticket would be best to get? I want to ride all the systems at least once, although we will probably be using mostly the subway. We will also probably need the trolleys and the Regional Rail a couple times.

3. Which Regional Rail line has the best scenery? I was thinking about riding Regional Rail to Norristown and then the High Speed Line back. Is that a good choice?

4. How much do SEPTA/NJT tickets cost for a trip to NYP? Would it be cheaper to take PATCO/River Line to Trenton?

5. Is there any bag storage available at 30th Street station?


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 16, 2016)

I think I can help with a few of your questions:

1. I have taken Regional Rail many times from 30th Street station to Jefferson (I also stay at a hotel about half a block from that station when I stay over in Philly). Jefferson is right under the Marriott, there's an elevator that goes up to street level at the 12th Street/convention center exit and also up to the Marriott. If you are staying at a different hotel nearby, you would need to walk down the corridor next to the Field House sports bar to get outside, because the other exits will likely be closed after business on Saturday. If you are coming in on Amtrak, your ticket allows you a free trip from 30th Street to Jefferson. There are frequent trains, because just about everything is going through Jefferson to get somewhere else. You will stop at Suburban first, then Jefferson. I always ask the conductor if the train stops at Jefferson, just to be safe, because there are a couple of trains that end at Suburban.

2. Look into the SEPTA one-day independence day pass (I tried to link it but couldn't--just google SEPTA independence day pass, and the site should come up). I don't know if that would be the best deal, but it allows you to ride a lot of the SEPTA system, and there is both a one-person pass and a family pass.

4. SEPTA is $9 to Trenton, and Trenton to New York is astronomical--I don't know how much, except before I was able to get the senior fare on NJT, my 10-minute train ride from Trenton to Princeton Junction was almost $5 one-way, and to New York is at least an hour. (There may be a combination fare that I am not familiar with, though.) It would be cheaper to take PATCO and the RiverLine to Trenton. The scenery along the RiverLine is actually quite nice--it goes along the river (obviously) and through some nice towns, including down the middle of the street in Riverside and Burlington City. However, there are many trade-offs: it takes a very long time, you may have to wait up to half an hour on a bench outside in Camden, where there may be some very questionable characters, for the next RiverLine, and if you are going outside of rush hour, there can be some other very questionable characters on the train. If you do decide to take the RiverLine, remember to validate your ticket in the validation stamp machine--there's a fine of, I think, about $100 dollars if it's not validated (for a ticket that costs $1.50), and most of the fare checkers will have no mercy.

5. There is a ClubAcela at 30th Street, which you can use to store your bags if you are in a sleeper or Acela First Class. Also, there are redcaps who can hold your bags and take you down to the train.

I hope this is helpful--others on here may have better advice and will also correct me if I am wrong with some of mine.  I hope you have a lovely trip!


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## willem (Nov 16, 2016)

My answer pertains only to question 4, and in reverse. My notes for a trip from Newark Penn Station to Philadelphia say it's $13.40 from Newark to Trenton on NJ Transit and $18.00 from Trenton to Philadelphia on SEPTA. (For comparison, my notes also say it's $78.00 on Amtrak.) I understand that the train from Trenton stops at Jefferson.

[Edit: see correction in a later post. These fares are probably for two passengers.]

Well, I also have a comment on question 1. If I recall correctly, your Amtrak ticket is valid for travel on the Market-Frankford line on the day you arrive. I do not recall ever hearing that your Amtrak ticket is valid for continuation on regional rail. Corrections to my recollections and understandings are welcome.

[Edit: see correction in a later post. The Amtrak ticket is valid on regional rail but not on the Market-Frankford line.]

As I recall, it was somewhat difficult to glean information from the NJ Transit and SEPTA web sites. For example NJ Transit says the senior fare is $6.70 from Exchange Place to Trenton, but doesn't say if that includes PATH from Exchange Place to Newark Penn. This was part of a query about travel from Exchange Place to Philadelphia, and it was explicit that the SEPTA portion was not included. SEPTA says that seniors travel for $1 on regional rail, but that is perhaps only in Pennsylvania, so it doesn't apply to a journey from Trenton to Philadelphia. Again, it is not clear.

After your trip, please post the answers that you find to your questions in this thread.


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## cirdan (Nov 16, 2016)

Does SEPTA still use payment tokens?

I recall there were plans to abolish these but I don't remember ever hearing this was followed up on.

I still have a small stash of them.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 16, 2016)

willem--

I must respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points, and only because I travel this route quite a bit.

$18 sounds a bit steep for SEPTA Trenton to Philly. Could your notes have been for two people? Or a round trip? It's always been $9 one way for me.

Also, unless they've changed things, an Amtrak ticket is good from 30th Street to the two Center City stations: Suburban and Jefferson. It's in tiny print at the bottom of one of the Northeast Corridor pages in the printed timetable book (sorry, can't tell you the page number because the printed book is at home, where I currently am not, and the PDF is too cumbersome to find anything in easily). They rarely even check, but of course there's always that one time. I actually had to explain this to a brand-new young conductor once, because they didn't tell him about it in his SEPTA training classes.


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## fairviewroad (Nov 16, 2016)

Mystic is correct, your same-day Amtrak ticket is valid for any Regional Rail train between 30th St and Jefferson. The policy is explicitly stated on SEPTA's website.



> Amtrak Tickets | Both Amtrak paper tickets and e-Tickets, purchased for the same date of travel and presented for inspection, will be accepted as a fare to ride on Regional Rail trains between 30th Street Station and Jefferson Station. Customers with e-Ticket confirmations should present their personal device (iPad, laptop computer, smart phone, etc.) to the SEPTA Conductor for visual confirmation of the Amtrak fare.


From a practical standpoint, fares are _rarely, if ever_ checked between those stations. In theory one could purchase an unreserved Keystone ticket from PHL to Ardmore for $7.50 and ride for free for an entire year. Obviously this would be dishonest but it's such an easy "cheat" that SEPTA must surely not care that much about fare-checking between 30th Street and Jefferson. If you try to use your Amtrak ticket to get on the Market-Frankford line, you'll be turned away.

To the OP: From a convenience standpoint, you'd be much better off using the Regional Rail connection over to Jefferson. At the time of day you'd be traveling, the Regional Rail trains won't be that crowded.

As far as taking the Regional Rail train out to Norristown and returning on the High Speed Line, that's an excellent choice IMO. If you have the full-meal-deal pass, and want to make a longer day of it, once you get down to the 69th Street terminal, I'd suggest taking the Rt 101 trolley. That will take you out to Media, where (with a 10-minute walk) you can easily connect to the Media station on the Media/Elwyn line. From there you can ride back into Center City.

Another rail loop that isn't perhaps so scenic but is notable for winding through some old neighborhoods would be taking the Chestnut Hill West line to the end, and then from there it's an easy block or two walk to the end station on the Chestnut Hill East line. (or vice-versa)


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## jebr (Nov 16, 2016)

I know I had my ticket checked once on the overnight stopover I did in Philadelphia, and it may have been twice. I must have some bad luck with fare checks.


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## willem (Nov 17, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> $18 sounds a bit steep for SEPTA Trenton to Philly. Could your notes have been for two people? Or a round trip? It's always been $9 one way for me.
> 
> Also, unless they've changed things, an Amtrak ticket is good from 30th Street to the two Center City stations: Suburban and Jefferson.


Yes, my notes are probably for two people. I should have thought of that. (I expect the Amtrak fare that I mentioned is for two people if the SEPTA fare was for two people. I'm usually consistent.)



fairviewroad said:


> Mystic is correct, your same-day Amtrak ticket is valid for any Regional Rail train between 30th St and Jefferson. The policy is explicitly stated on SEPTA's website.
> 
> [...]
> 
> If you try to use your Amtrak ticket to get on the Market-Frankford line, you'll be turned away.


That's what I get for trying to trying to work from memory. I thought I had taken the Market-Frankford line, but apparently I took the regional rail. (The Amtrak System Timetable dated October 3, 2016, page 43, agrees with the quotation from SEPTA's website.)

Thanks to both of you for the corrections.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 17, 2016)

You're very welcome, willem.  It's so rare on here that I know something absolutely for sure, but this time I knew I did!


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 19, 2016)

I will be on coach on 92/91, so I will not have access to the lounge but should be able to get on the regional rail. I had heard about that before on the Regionals, Keystones, and Acelas but did not know it applied to the LD trains. Now that I looked, there is actually a small note about it on the back of the Atlantic Coast Service timetable. I have one more question I forgot about. Is there a good chance of snow that time of the year? I am coming from Florida so it would be a nice treat to see some snow. I know there are the ski areas a few hours away, but I am without a car so I am pretty much limited to where the train can take me.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 19, 2016)

According to the Farmer's Almanac, not much chance of snow this December, although it will be very cold.  However, we are supposed to get hit with a major snowstorm in mid-February (anywhere from the 10th to the 16th), so if you really want snow, you could come up then. (I will most likely be passing you in the other direction as I escape to Florida!  )


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## Acela150 (Nov 19, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I will be in Philadelphia from December 17-21 and have a few questions about SEPTA and related transit.
> 
> 1. My hotel is right next to Jefferson station. Would it be easier to take Regional Rail or the Market-Frankford Line from 30th Street station with 2 suitcases and a small bag? Is there any cost difference? If it matters, I will be arriving about 5 PM on a Saturday and leaving at 12 PM on a Wednesday.
> 
> ...


Question 1. Hop on Regional rail.. It's free between the two with your Amtrak ticket.

Question 2. Get an Independence Pass. $12 vaild on all transit. Extra $5 for travel to NJ.

Question 3. Your choice on riding between the city and Norristown is a good one. Matter of fact at the Wissahickon Station you'll be a 5 minute walk from me.

Question 4. Not really up to date of that.

Question 5. Day check at baggage. Not sure on fees.



cirdan said:


> Does SEPTA still use payment tokens?
> 
> I recall there were plans to abolish these but I don't remember ever hearing this was followed up on.
> 
> I still have a small stash of them.


Yes we do. Not much longer it seems though.. They officially have started the NPT or "Septa Key". Monthly and weekly passes and as of last Monday they started a reloadable fare card for those who use single fares.


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## Train2104 (Nov 20, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I will be in Philadelphia from December 17-21 and have a few questions about SEPTA and related transit.
> 
> 1. My hotel is right next to Jefferson station. Would it be easier to take Regional Rail or the Market-Frankford Line from 30th Street station with 2 suitcases and a small bag? Is there any cost difference? If it matters, I will be arriving about 5 PM on a Saturday and leaving at 12 PM on a Wednesday.
> 
> ...


1. Take Regional rail, it's free with your Amtrak ticket. Plus no need to go outside (the Market-Frankford station is across the street, no enclosed passageway)

2. The $12 independence pass is a 1 day thing, not valid on Regional Rail in the AM rush hour (before 9:30am). If you're planning to ride the Regional Rail primarily on one or two days, it would be cheaper to buy the pass for those day(s) and then use tokens for your subway/trolley trips.

3. Norristown is a good choice. Other Regional Rail-subway loops that are easy to make include Sharon Hill (though it's just the NEC), Media, and Chestnut Hill.

4. The NJT fare Trenton-NYP is $16.75. To get to Trenton, it's $9 one way on Regional Rail (if you plan to just go to NYC for a day and not take any other SEPTA rides, do not get the Independence Pass, the extra $5 for NJ travel is per trip, not per pass) PATCO/RiverLine is considerably cheaper ($1.40 PATCO + $1.60 RiverLine), and much more unique than just riding up the NEC. Takes longer though.

5. Yes, since you're holding Amtrak tickets. $10 per bag per 24 hours, ask at the baggage counter.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Dec 9, 2016)

It appears that the joint SEPTA/NJT tickets are only sold at 30th Street and Suburban Sttaion in Philadelphia. Since we would be departing from Jefferson, how should we go about this? Could I buy the tickets when we arrive in PHL days before the trip to NYP, or would they expire? Am I correct in saying a PHL-NYP ticket bought at 30th street would work boarding at Jefferson since they are the same fare zone?

Also, the prelimary forecast shows snow from RVR north so I am hopeful. I always thought that it would be fun to ride up the NEC in a snowstorm.


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## jis (Dec 9, 2016)

NJT tickets do not expire. At least not within a day, a week or even a month.

You can always buy a SEPTA ticket from wherever to Trenton from SEPTA, and at PHL buy an NJT ticket from Trenton to wherever at the NJT TVM. You don't have to buy the SEPTA segment between Philly and Trenton from an NJT TVM. Or, if you have a smartphone, you can get the MyTix App of NJT and buy the NJT ticket from wherever using a credit card on your smartphone.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 10, 2016)

The forecast is for snow?

It will be a contest between the weather channel and the farmers almanac, then, because i just checked my farmers almanac and it says some rain, then sunny and warm for your travel dates.

May the best forecast win! 

In the best of all worlds, you will get snow to look at on the way up, then it will melt before you have to go trekking around the city in it!


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Dec 10, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> The forecast is for snow?
> 
> It will be a contest between the weather channel and the farmers almanac, then, because i just checked my farmers almanac and it says some rain, then sunny and warm for your travel dates.
> 
> ...


Almost all of the weather stations have precipitation forecast for the 17th-19th, but they are divided over whether it will fall as snow, rain, or a mix. It looks like snow could also fall this Wednesday night, so with temperatures staying below freezing Thursday and Friday it is possible some could remain on Saturday. Yet another possibility is all rain in the city, but snow in the outer suburbs such as Lansdale or Thorndale in which case I would just take a ride on the Regional Rail.


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## Acela150 (Dec 10, 2016)

I honestly trust our local ABC station the most. Most of Philly does.


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## Train2104 (Dec 11, 2016)

jis said:


> NJT tickets do not expire. At least not within a day, a week or even a month.
> 
> You can always buy a SEPTA ticket from wherever to Trenton from SEPTA, and at PHL buy an NJT ticket from Trenton to wherever at the NJT TVM. You don't have to buy the SEPTA segment between Philly and Trenton from an NJT TVM. Or, if you have a smartphone, you can get the MyTix App of NJT and buy the NJT ticket from wherever using a credit card on your smartphone.


NJT one ways never expire. SEPTA's expire in 6 months.

There is no discount on the joint ticket. You can buy the NJT portion when you get to Trenton, though I advise against this since if the connection is tight you don't want to be waiting to buy tickets. Either use the mobile app or buy the joint ticket at 30th St (they're valid from Jefferson)

Note that SEPTA has no ticket vending machines - if you don't buy the SEPTA portion from an NJT TVM, you need to buy it from the ticket agent (or else pay more onboard).


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## willem (Dec 11, 2016)

Train2104 said:


> Note that SEPTA has no ticket vending machines - if you don't buy the SEPTA portion from an NJT TVM, you need to buy it from the ticket agent (or else pay more onboard).


Thanks for that bit of information. Are SEPTA tickets available from all NJT ticket vending machines? Are SEPTA tickets available from NJT TVMs in Newark? I plan to travel from Newark to Philadelphia on NJT and SEPTA. I expect to have a long enough layover in Trenton that I could by the SEPTA ticket there, but wonder if I could buy it in Newark.

By the way, I will have luggage, which I can handle. Would you expect me to have any problems storing luggage on either the Newark to Trenton or Trenton to Philadelphia legs?


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## Train2104 (Dec 11, 2016)

willem said:


> Train2104 said:
> 
> 
> > Note that SEPTA has no ticket vending machines - if you don't buy the SEPTA portion from an NJT TVM, you need to buy it from the ticket agent (or else pay more onboard).
> ...


Not sure about *all* NJT TVM's and definitely not to all SEPTA stations, but you can definitely buy tickets for both legs of your trip from the TVM in Newark, if you are going to Center City Philadelphia. On the TVM, there's no special option, just buy it as if you were buying an NJT one way and choose Philly as your destination, both tickets will print.

Luggage space on NJT Multilevels is limited. Sit on the "middle" level at the car ends, rather than going up/down the stairs, for more space. SEPTA is a little roomier.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Dec 11, 2016)

Train2104 said:


> willem said:
> 
> 
> > Train2104 said:
> ...


I didn't know about that option coming back from Newark yesterday. Then again, I got off at a suburban stop in Bucks County and not Philly so it might not have worked anyway.


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## willem (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks for the information, *Train2104*.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 12, 2016)

If there is snow overnight one night when you're here, another possibility is to take a short ride on the Keystone from Philadelphia to Lancaster, then get another Keystone back. You would get a taste of the farmland in the snow, in addition to the snow in the city. (You could go all the way to Harrisburg, but that is a couple of hours each way, and to Lancaster is just over an hour and does have some nice farmland before you get to it.) Just like Amtrak, however, the only consistent thing about the weather around here is its inconsistency, so no guarantees. Hope you get a nice variety of snow to look at and then comfortable temperatures afterward!


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Dec 17, 2016)

I am arriving on 92 today around 5. It looks as though some snow fell overnight but none is forecasted for the next week. Before I get there, the forecast calls for 1-2 hours of rain with temperatures in the low to mid 30s. What are the odds that some snow will still be on the ground when I arrive? Are there certain suburbs served by SEPTA that have better chances, and if so which ones?


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## Acela150 (Dec 18, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I am arriving on 92 today around 5. It looks as though some snow fell overnight but none is forecasted for the next week. Before I get there, the forecast calls for 1-2 hours of rain with temperatures in the low to mid 30s. What are the odds that some snow will still be on the ground when I arrive? Are there certain suburbs served by SEPTA that have better chances, and if so which ones?


There's non on the ground now.. Yesterday morning the sidewalks were an absolute mess.. I walked from the house to the bus stop.. Usually a 2 minute walk.. Took me 4 minutes. I was taking my good ole time to get there cause it's hilly where I am, and I didn't want to go for a trip.. Although the roads weren't bad. Took me about 10 minutes to get to 30th Street to catch the el to Septa Headquarters at the 13th Street stop. Afternoon wasn't bad.. The sidewalks were still messy. Weather looks decent the rest of the week though.


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## Ryan (Dec 19, 2016)

Not looking good for you to see snow cover:




(From: http://www.intellicast.com/Travel/Weather/Snow/Cover.aspx )


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## Acela150 (Dec 20, 2016)

Why am I not surprised to see FLA not have any snow......... :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jan 4, 2017)

1. My hotel is right next to Jefferson station. Would it be easier to take Regional Rail or the Market-Frankford Line from 30th Street station with 2 suitcases and a small bag? Is there any cost difference? If it matters, I will be arriving about 5 PM on a Saturday and leaving at 12 PM on a Wednesday.
2. What type of ticket would be best to get? I want to ride all the systems at least once, although we will probably be using mostly the subway. We will also probably need the trolleys and the Regional Rail a couple times.
3. Which Regional Rail line has the best scenery? I was thinking about riding Regional Rail to Norristown and then the High Speed Line back. Is that a good choice?
4. How much do SEPTA/NJT tickets cost for a trip to NYP? Would it be cheaper to take PATCO/River Line to Trenton?
5. Is there any bag storage available at 30th Street station? 

Answers to my questions:

1. With the included fare I took the Regional Rail both coming and going, although I also rode the Market-Frankford Line numerous times throughout the trip. 30th Street Station was easy to navigate although riding the commuter rail carrying what turned out to be four large bags was difficult. On the return to 30th Street I brought the two checked bags in the morning to avoid the hassle and so that we could enjoy the city for a few more hours. Out of at least 5 rides within Center City on the Regional Rail, tickets were only checked once and that was on an inbound that terminated at Suburban station, likely because the conductors knew that anyone getting on was not travelling past Center City to a place where tickets are normally checked.

2. I ended up getting an Independence Pass for one day to explore the system. Other than that, we paid for individual rides on the rapid transit lines. When using the Regional Rail within Center City, I was never forced to buy a ticket as the one time they checked for them was one of the days on which I was also travelling on Amtrak. One time we only had debit cards so were forced to walk from a trolley subway station to a rapid transit station as trolleys only accepted cash. I was not prepared for this because the 30th Street and City Hall trolley stations are within the rapid transit gates and can therefore be paid for with a card. I assumed all of the underground stations would have this feature, which was not the case.

3. With my Independence Pass I first rode the Manayunk/Norristown Line to its endpoint at Norristown Elm Street. I then walked back to the Norristown Transportation Center via downtown. Following this, I boarded the Norristown High Speed Line bound for 69th Street Transportation Center. At 69th Street, I transferred to the 102 trolley bound for Sharon Hill. I detrained at Clifton-Alden to board the Media/Elwyn Regional Rail Line back to Center City. I changed trains to the Market-Frankford Line at 30th Street and continued my journey to Girard Street. The 15 PCC Station was below the rapid transit station. The rode the 15 west to about 27th Street where I walked south in order to see the Art Museum and Boathouse Row. During another part of the trip, I rode the Broad Street Line from Fairmount to City Hall as well as City Hall to AT&T Station. I also rode a trolley from 30th Street to City Hall. On the day I traveled to Camden to see Battleship New Jersey, I rode the New Jersey Transit River Line from Entertainment Center to Walter Rand Transportation Center and PATCO from Walter Rand Transportation Center to 15th/16th Street Station.

4. Unfortunately due to time constraints, we were unable to travel to New York. I am from New York and have family there while Philadelphia was a more original experience for me. There was so much to see and do in Philadelphia alone, and I will be making another trip to New York in July if not sooner.

5. Upon arriving, we decided to bring our baggage to the hotel before seeing anything that night. When it was time to leave, I checked the heavy baggage in the morning so that storage was not necessary. As to the carry-ons, we only made it to the station about 10-15 minutes prior to boarding so there was no need to store them.

As to the snow and winter weather, there was some ice in the rivers from around Fredericksburg north, with the notable exception of the Potomac. Most of the ice in Virginia was in small amounts along the river banks, although some of the ice had a white coating. The platform coverings in Washington had icicles on them and during the locomotive change the warming temperatures caused one large icicle to fall to the ground. We encountered consistent ice from soon after crossing the Maryland border all the way to Philadelphia. It covered the trees and some of the ground. The rivers crossed in Maryland were filled with a lot of solid ice from the cold days prior to our arrival. Had I not been tracking the weather, I would have thought that snow had fallen. Starting at about Wilmington, there was actual snow on the ground into Philadelphia. While it was minimal, even small amounts are better than nothing. There was a lot of snow and ice outside 30th Street Station in the bushes and on the sidewalks. The city parks we visited that night were also snow covered. By the next morning, all of the snow and ice was gone save for a few small patches, as the temperature approached 60 degrees that morning. There was a few large piles that did not completely melt. Over the next few days, the temperature ranged from the low 20s to around 35 so much of the remaining water melted into ice. Although the temperatures warmed on my departure day, the cold remained long enough to retain some ice as far as Northern Virginia. I will be travelling to Chicago in February (Although unfortunately by plane) and Boston in March (On Amtrak) so hopefully winter is not yet over for me!


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## fairviewroad (Jan 5, 2017)

Sounds like you made the most of your time in Philly. It's a great transit city. Could be better, but there's certainly a wide variety of rail service that can get you to most of the places a visitor would want to go.


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## willem (Jan 5, 2017)

Thank you, *brianpmcdonnell17*, for posting the questions again with the answers that you found during your trip. It is great to have the information all in one place and recorded when it is fresh in your memory.


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