# Its no longer Flat Iron Steak



## RRrich (Jul 18, 2009)

How is the new BRAISED variant???


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 18, 2009)

I just ate 2 last week and they were both EXCELLENT! So tender you can cut them with the fork alone.


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## jmbgeg (Jul 18, 2009)

RRrich said:


> How is the new BRAISED variant???


The cut they served on the Coast Starlight was akin to pot roast and bland. The beef served on my recent Empire Builder trip was between passable and good.


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## sky12065 (Jul 18, 2009)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I just ate 2 last week and they were both EXCELLENT! So tender you can cut them with the fork alone.


I had one on my trip earlier this month on the SWC and I agree that it was excellent... even though I misread the menu and thought I was getting the flat iron steak.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 18, 2009)

I had the last grilled Amsteak on the EB early June. Two weeks later on the CS I had the braised steak-- both were good, grilled was better.


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## Casinocim (Jul 18, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> RRrich said:
> 
> 
> > How is the new BRAISED variant???
> ...



I have to agree with it being like pot roast, SWC in June. Is not worth the money they charge. I didn't have to pay for it, thank goodness.


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## sechs (Jul 19, 2009)

They should just replace it with the lamb shank on a full time basis. Always tasty.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 19, 2009)

sechs said:


> They should just replace it with the lamb shank on a full time basis. Always tasty.


Might not always be available from Aramark...

I like keeping the grilled version on the EB.


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## AlanB (Jul 19, 2009)

While I did not try it, several other's did on our trip from coast to coast. It got mixed reviews. Those wanting real steak seemed less happy. Those just looking for beef, seemded quite happy.


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## RRrich (Jul 19, 2009)

It is advertised as Braised Flat Iron - steak is not mentioned - when I make pot roast, I braise the meat so if Braised Flat Iron tastes like pot roast it is NOT a surprise.

I would rather have lamb shank than flat iron any day of the week but that might just be me


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## cpamtfan (Jul 19, 2009)

Just wait until the October schedule change, then you'll get you grilled steak again. Remember this is a seasonal thing (well, on the LSL and Cardinal, it might be year round).

cpamtfan-Peter


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 19, 2009)

If it is like pot roast, can it be pre-prepared? Are all servings cooked the same (no rare, medium, well done)?

If the answers are "yes", and it tastes good too, I can why Amtrak would lean toward it as a featured menu item.


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## printman2000 (Jul 19, 2009)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> If it is like pot roast, can it be pre-prepared? Are all servings cooked the same (no rare, medium, well done)?
> If the answers are "yes", and it tastes good too, I can why Amtrak would lean toward it as a featured menu item.


It is precooked and just heated to serve. No requests.

I too thought it tasted like a pot roast. I did not like it very much.


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## sky12065 (Jul 19, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > If it is like pot roast, can it be pre-prepared? Are all servings cooked the same (no rare, medium, well done)?
> ...


Is that why I saw something hit my room window that looked like what we're discussing when our trains passed last month? :blink:


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 19, 2009)

Pot Roast or Steak-it still tastes mighty good when it's served on board a TRAIN


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## PetalumaLoco (Jul 19, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > If it is like pot roast, can it be pre-prepared? Are all servings cooked the same (no rare, medium, well done)?
> ...


If it's pot roast, I'm fine with it. Pass the Ketchup!


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## had8ley (Jul 19, 2009)

They forgot to tell everyone they changed from flat iron of beef to flat iron of rhino :lol: :lol:


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## jmbgeg (Jul 19, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > If it is like pot roast, can it be pre-prepared? Are all servings cooked the same (no rare, medium, well done)?
> ...


A point that I have not seen discussed is price. I travel in sleepers and meals are included, so it does not matter to me. As I recall, however, the new beef entree item is still the top priced dinner menu item. If I was in coach and paid top price for pot roast equivalent, I would surely be disappointed.


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## Upstate (Jul 19, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> A point that I have not seen discussed is price. I travel in sleepers and meals are included, so it does not matter to me. As I recall, however, the new beef entree item is still the top priced dinner menu item. If I was in coach and paid top price for pot roast equivalent, I would surely be disappointed.


Still in a sleeper I figure food into the price I am paying. I don't figure it at full price since I wouldn't pay that much for the quality of food served, but it is in the calculation. The more they cheapen the food the less inclined I am to buy a sleeper and since I don't usually overnight in coach that means I am less likely to ride the train.


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## JayPea (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm really not a beef eater at all. So from my personal, selfish point of view :lol: it doesn't matter what kind of steak they serve. I'm much more of a chicken or seafood person.


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## Bierboy (Jul 19, 2009)

Casinocim said:


> ...I didn't have to pay for it, thank goodness.


Yes you did....with your first-class fare


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## jmbgeg (Jul 19, 2009)

Upstate said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > A point that I have not seen discussed is price. I travel in sleepers and meals are included, so it does not matter to me. As I recall, however, the new beef entree item is still the top priced dinner menu item. If I was in coach and paid top price for pot roast equivalent, I would surely be disappointed.
> ...


I don't choose to pay for a sleeper for the food, but rather for a good night's sleep and some element of privacy. The food is a perk. Bad food wouldn't motivate me to travel coach or fly; only to be a less satisfied realtively frequent long distance train traveler.


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## sky12065 (Jul 19, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> Upstate said:
> 
> 
> > jmbgeg said:
> ...


I choose to pay for a sleeper out of necessity. But if didn't have to choose out of necessity, I would not choose for considerations of food or a good nights sleep. I'd then choose to pay to get from point A to point B and sometimes to points C, D and E like I did this year.

I'm also sure that the Traveler would choose for the same basic reason, but in his case it's for getting from point A to points B then to points C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z then back to A for a short break and then resume in getting to points B1, C1, D1, E1, etc, etc, etc.......... :lol:


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## jmbgeg (Jul 19, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > Upstate said:
> ...


Obviously the best night's sleep is either at home or in a quality hotel bed, not on a thin sleeper mattress with horn blasts and the noise and bumps of tracks. That said, after flying nearly 500k miles on Alaska and other airlines, experiencing the rush and hassles of airports, and too many flight delays and cancellations, I have chosen train travel for the time being and am enjoying it. So, the characterization of a good night's sleep was comparative of a sleeper experience vs. an Amtrak coach seat.


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## jackal (Jul 19, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> I'm also sure that the Traveler would choose for the same basic reason, but in his case it's for getting from point A to points B then to points C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z then back to A for a short break and then resume in getting to points B1, C1, D1, E1, etc, etc, etc.......... :lol:


I'm sure he'd agree with you if he weren't out there right now outside of cell coverage somewhere between G6 and H6! :lol:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 19, 2009)

jackal said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also sure that the Traveler would choose for the same basic reason, but in his case it's for getting from point A to points B then to points C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z then back to A for a short break and then resume in getting to points B1, C1, D1, E1, etc, etc, etc.......... :lol:
> ...


You sunk my battleship!


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## jackal (Jul 19, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> You sunk my battleship!


Maybe sky sunk the_traveler's, which might explain why he hasn't responded!


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## sky12065 (Jul 19, 2009)

jackal said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > You sunk my battleship!
> ...


Oh no! Don't tell me that the Traveler is burning out from all that obsession for Amtrak traveling :huh: and is now seeking relief by giving crusing on battleships a try! Maybe it's tiime for an intervention? :unsure:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 19, 2009)

jackal said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > You sunk my battleship!
> ...


That's okay--

_Uchuu senkan Yamato, uchuu senkan Yamato! Cosmo-tiger hashiim!_


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## Rob_C (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm not much of a steak person *but* Steak is a staple of just about every American restaurant. It adds a bit of class to the service and will attract and keep the kinds of customers Amtrak needs to prevent it from turning into a glorified Greyhound. I mean, if Jack in the Box can do a sirloin burger, Amtrak can do a bon-a-fied steak. This substitution thing is really a dissapointment for an organization that should take a little more pride in their quality of product and service.


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## sechs (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> sechs said:
> 
> 
> > They should just replace it with the lamb shank on a full time basis. Always tasty.
> ...


Of course it's available from Aramark. They can provide anything, as long as you are willing to pay.
The problem is that people are stuck on beef.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

sechs said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > sechs said:
> ...


So then the diner takes an even greater loss.

What I am saying is they might not be enough lamb shanks in the country to supply on every train every trip-- and the beef option is practically a requirement in a menu in America.

I will say that the lamb shank I had on the EB was of superior quality.


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## sechs (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> What I am saying is they might not be enough lamb shanks in the country to supply on every train every trip-- and the beef option is practically a requirement in a menu in America.


Actually, what you're saying is that people are stuck on beef. 
Each one has four legs. There's plenty of lamb in America.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

sechs said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > What I am saying is they might not be enough lamb shanks in the country to supply on every train every trip-- and the beef option is practically a requirement in a menu in America.
> ...


Actually what I am saying is that if you look at meat counters in ANY american supermarket or butcher, you're lucky to find lamb. This is because beef is the best (or second best if you consider poultry) livestock that can be raised for food. Period. It is the most consumed meat in most Western countries including the UK and France.


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## RTOlson (Jul 20, 2009)

I had the braised beef on Coast Starlight in late June. It was alright, but it tasted more like comfort food than a top menu item. I can see the pot roast comparisons. To me, it tasted like stewed beef that my dad would make with a mushroom soup.

Overall, I liked it. The portion was generous and it matched well with the rice and vegetables.

Here's what it looked like aboard Starlight:


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## Tony (Jul 20, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> ... with horn blasts and the noise and bumps of tracks.


To some of us, that is like a mother's lullaby and gentle rocking.


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## jmbgeg (Jul 20, 2009)

RTOlson said:


> I had the braised beef on Coast Starlight in late June. It was alright, but it tasted more like comfort food than a top menu item. I can see the pot roast comparisons. To me, it tasted like stewed beef that my dad would make with a mushroom soup.
> Overall, I liked it. The portion was generous and it matched well with the rice and vegetables.
> 
> Here's what it looked like aboard Starlight:


That's it. Been there, done that. :blink:


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## sky12065 (Jul 20, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> RTOlson said:
> 
> 
> > I had the braised beef on Coast Starlight in late June. It was alright, but it tasted more like comfort food than a top menu item. I can see the pot roast comparisons. To me, it tasted like stewed beef that my dad would make with a mushroom soup.
> ...


IMO the picture of it looks less appealing than it actually was. Maybe is the lack of the sensual (smell) to go along with the visual!


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## Larry H. (Jul 20, 2009)

Am I the only one or does this have shades of the Burgundy Beef served on many routes in the past. Actually I found that meal to be superior to a poor flat iron steak which had been happening rather often for my taste. I do also agree that it is disturbing that Amtrak still seems to be degrading the amenities that amtrak provides with its expensive sleeper service. The still don't seem to get the idea that attracting people is done though better service not worse.


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## AlanB (Jul 20, 2009)

While perhaps some may not be happy with the current beef choice, the menus since October continue to be a big improvement over all for sleeping car passengers. I've no doubt that favorites will come and go and that from time to time Amtrak may pick something that looks like it will work when on the ground, but doesn't when on the train.

But again, the current menu is a huge improvement over the menus for the two prior years since SDS was first implimented. And in some ways, it's an improvement over the menus for the few years preceeding SDS, as food prep is much more consistant than it used to be.


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## wayman (Jul 20, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> Am I the only one or does this have shades of the Burgundy Beef served on many routes in the past. Actually I found that meal to be superior to a poor flat iron steak which had been happening rather often for my taste. I do also agree that it is disturbing that Amtrak still seems to be degrading the amenities that amtrak provides with its expensive sleeper service. The still don't seem to get the idea that attracting people is done though better service not worse.


The stated reason for this temporary change from flat-iron steak to braised beef is that during peak season, the one chef has enough more work that there isn't time for him to cook steaks to order. Hence a temporary change during peak season to a beef dish which requires less individual attention by the chef.

In theory, I believe Amtrak can add an extra-board extra person to the kitchen on trains it knows will have a very full passenger load, but they don't have the freedom (from Congress) to hire additional chefs, even seasonally, so far as I know; and I suspect they don't have the budget (from Congress) to cover the costs of providing an extra-board extra person in every dining car through peak season (and besides, they probably also don't have that many extra-board crew either).

It's not Amtrak that "doesn't get it". It's Congress. I suspect given the authority and money, current Amtrak management would gladly add a full-time sous chef and do away with SDS, allowing them to serve many more--and higher quality--meals.


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## Larry H. (Jul 20, 2009)

I thought the new legislation loosened the onboard services for the diners to include more help where needed? Did that not happen?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 20, 2009)

When I rode the *TE* a few days ago, we had 2 chefs/cooks coming and going and on the northbound leg, had an LSA and 2 servers. The food was coming out fast, plentiful and good. And this is with a CCC!


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## jmbgeg (Jul 20, 2009)

wayman said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only one or does this have shades of the Burgundy Beef served on many routes in the past. Actually I found that meal to be superior to a poor flat iron steak which had been happening rather often for my taste. I do also agree that it is disturbing that Amtrak still seems to be degrading the amenities that amtrak provides with its expensive sleeper service. The still don't seem to get the idea that attracting people is done though better service not worse.
> ...



As far as cooking steaks to order, I can live with a straight down the middle "medium" for all steaks prepared (for efficiency in preparation) if it meant we get steak instead of mystery meat.


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> This is because beef is the best (or second best if you consider poultry) livestock that can be raised for food. Period. It is the most consumed meat in most Western countries including the UK and France.


How can it be "the best"? It may be the most popular, the most prestigious, and your Personal Favorite... but all of that together cannot make it "the best".


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > This is because beef is the best (or second best if you consider poultry) livestock that can be raised for food. Period. It is the most consumed meat in most Western countries including the UK and France.
> ...


Because of breeding and feeding conditions. Because of the adaptability of the stock-- it has nothing to do with flavor, just facts.


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Because of breeding and feeding conditions. Because of the adaptability of the stock-- it has nothing to do with flavor, just facts.


Facts indeed. What about comparative nutritional value, healthy eating, and Environmental Impact??? Check back in 20 years to find out if "Beef is still Best".


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Because of breeding and feeding conditions. Because of the adaptability of the stock-- it has nothing to do with flavor, just facts.
> ...


Find me a nutritionist who will agree to the following statement: "Beef has NO place in the human diet." and maybe I'll agree with you. You know its not the food, it's the person. You can be of a perfectly healthy weight and eat a steak. I'm sorry-- it's portion control.

Oh and environmental impact, most cattle are fed with grain and not lawn mowers. In fact it is the free-range organic cattle that cause more damage to the land versus their penned counterparts.

What, exactly, do you know about cattle raising? Or for that matter, what do you have against having a beef option on the menu! It's beef. "Beef, chicken, or fish?"


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## Neil_M (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Oh and environmental impact, most cattle are fed with grain and not lawn mowers. In fact it is the free-range organic cattle that cause more damage to the land versus their penned counterparts.


Indeed, 16 pounds of grain for one pound of beef. Sounds like a good deal....... Not to mention all the growth promoters and hormones you insist on feeding your cattle.

Free range cause more damage to the land? That's how cows are supposed to live, not in some concrete factory somewhere....


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## Upstate (Jul 20, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and environmental impact, most cattle are fed with grain and not lawn mowers. In fact it is the free-range organic cattle that cause more damage to the land versus their penned counterparts.
> ...


My grandfather and now my uncle have been raising cattle on hay on the same piece of ground for about 50 years now and their farm looks pretty good to me.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and environmental impact, most cattle are fed with grain and not lawn mowers. In fact it is the free-range organic cattle that cause more damage to the land versus their penned counterparts.
> ...


Then call PETA. Don't complain to me. I grew up with farms and farmers. I packed beef for summer work-- I suppose that we shouldn't feed corn to those cattle because that corn was penned in a field.


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Find me a nutritionist who will agree to the following statement: "Beef has NO place in the human diet." and maybe I'll agree with you. You know its not the food, it's the person. You can be of a perfectly healthy weight and eat a steak. I'm sorry-- it's portion control.


This is preposterous. You said "Beef is Best". I said, "Not necessarily so". Now you just agree that Beef has SOME place in the human diet. Portion control, indeed. I am of a perfectly healthy weight, and I like STEAK, and I eat a LOT of it. And I do NOT practice Portion Control. Not everybody needs to, you know. To each his own.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> What, exactly, do you know about cattle raising?


Not much about raising Beef, because I live in Dairy Country so the Milk business is much more familiar.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Or for that matter, what do you have against having a beef option on the menu! It's beef. "Beef, chicken, or fish?"


I have No Beef against having Beef on the Menu. As to Beef, Chicken, or Fish, the ideal Train Trip should have at least one dinner in each of these three classes. The issue in this thread has NOT been whether Beef is appropriate to place on the Menu, but rather the disappointment felt by some over the recent reduction in QUALITY of one classic Beef entry.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Find me a nutritionist who will agree to the following statement: "Beef has NO place in the human diet." and maybe I'll agree with you. You know its not the food, it's the person. You can be of a perfectly healthy weight and eat a steak. I'm sorry-- it's portion control.
> ...


Then why the heck are you mopping about saying "not the best" eh? Seems you like steak, a lot. No reason to attack me for stating the facts to cattle raising. Which, you seem to agree with.


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## Casinocim (Jul 20, 2009)

wayman said:


> The stated reason for this temporary change from flat-iron steak to braised beef is that during peak season, the one chef has enough more work that there isn't time for him to cook steaks to order. Hence a temporary change during peak season to a beef dish which requires less individual attention by the chef.


They just open a package of Dinty Moore and say it's braised flat iron :lol:


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > I have No Beef against having Beef on the Menu.
> ...


I said that "Beef is NOT ALWAYS the BEST". One reason it is NOT ALWAYS the BEST is the recent reduction in Beef Quality on Amtrak. There is NO substitute for Steak. Pot Roast is just fine for those who like it (Which I most certainly DO), but it is NOT STEAK and can NEVER replace Steak on a Menu. And the fact that some poor souls who overlook the Fine Print actually THINK they're ordering Steak, only to be Heartbroken at finding some Braised Whatever on their Plates... well, that's just a crying shame. And THAT is why "Beef is no longer the Best", at least when you're riding Amtrak.

By the way, RailWriter, I haven't done any "Mopping" around here for quite a while now. Though it looks to be about time for it, I suppose.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Seems you like steak, a lot.


Actually, yes.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> No reason to attack me for stating the facts to cattle raising. Which, you seem to agree with.


Actually, No. Not at all.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


Obviously you have a limited understanding of what I said.

When i say beef is the best, I don't refer to the quality or taste-- simply the animal itself and its dietary impact.

And you're wrong. Flat iron is very good when braised. In fact, you can braise, boil, bake, fry, or grill steak. A steak is not a method of cooking a steak is a certain cut of meat from the animal. There are many different types of steaks. Round steak is good for braising, but never grilling. Sirloin is best broiled or grilled, with the exception of top loin (best broiled). The strip and rib are good grilled or fried. SO your argument is invalid. As long as the meat in a method consistent with steaks then it is a steak regardless of the method choosing to cushion.

Need I go on?


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, RailWriter, I haven't done any "Mopping" around here for quite a while now. Though it looks to be about time for it, I suppose.
> ...


Obviously.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> When i say beef is the best, I don't refer to the quality or taste-- simply the animal itself and its dietary impact.


And that's Exactly where I take issue. The "animal itself and its dietary impact" are simply NOT the BEST, for all people and places and situations or in all regards. My own favorite, Sure, but that's Irrelevant.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And you're wrong. Flat iron is very good when braised. In fact, you can braise, boil, bake, fry, or grill steak. A steak is not a method of cooking a steak is a certain cut of meat from the animal. There are many different types of steaks. Round steak is good for braising, but never grilling. Sirloin is best broiled or grilled, with the exception of top loin (best broiled). The strip and rib are good grilled or fried. SO your argument is invalid.


This is outrageous. Sure you can cook a Steak lots of different ways. But you cannot make Braised Pot-Roast into a Steak! Didn't you just hear yourself say that a "Steak" is a "certain cut of meat"? So when Amtrak serves a Different "cut of meat" that is NOT a Steak, it CANNOT become a Steak just by cooking it in one of the (less-usual) styles in which a True Steak could have been cooked!



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> As long as the meat in a method consistent with steaks then it is a steak regardless of the method choosing to cushion.


As long as the Meat is NOT a Steak, then it will NOT Become a Steak, whether you choose to "cushion" it or not. It simply does not matter.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Need I go on?


Your choice. I'm ready if you are.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 20, 2009)

Grandson of a meat cutter, son of a meatpacker, a summertime meatpacker myself-- you REALLY want to get into an argument about how you can braise steak? Heh--

You take a T-bone and braise it like a pot roast, it is still a steak. I'm sorry it wasn't prepared in the method you like, but it does NOT make it pot roast! A roast is a different style of cutting meat than a steak.


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## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Grandson of a meat cutter, son of a meatpacker, a summertime meatpacker myself-- you REALLY want to get into an argument about how you can braise steak? Heh--
> You take a T-bone and braise it like a pot roast, it is still a steak. I'm sorry it wasn't prepared in the method you like, but it does NOT make it pot roast! A roast is a different style of cutting meat than a steak.


Grandson of a meat-eater, son of a meat-eater, a full-time meat-eater myself. You can go ahead and braise a Steak any way you choose. I'm not the one who has to eat it. Heh--

You take a Pot-Roast and grill it like a Steak, it's still a Pot Roast. I'm sorry it wasn't cut from the right part of the Animal, but Amtrak no longer believes in Steaks. (Unless they re-consider in October.)

Much the pity.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Grandson of a meat cutter, son of a meatpacker, a summertime meatpacker myself-- you REALLY want to get into an argument about how you can braise steak? Heh--
> ...


Also on the EB.

And actually you're correct. You can put a roast on a grill and it is still a roast. However, the converse is true-- Put a steak in the oven, and it is still a steak. As long as it was cut properly.


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## sechs (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Actually what I am saying is that if you look at meat counters in ANY american supermarket or butcher, you're lucky to find lamb. This is because beef is the best (or second best if you consider poultry) livestock that can be raised for food. Period. It is the most consumed meat in most Western countries including the UK and France.


You might want to put the shovel down now. You're just reinforcing my point, and not yours.
Stores sell what they can make the most money on. So, you're saying that they sell beef because people are stuck on it.

In reality, pig is the best livestock that can be raised for food. You can feed pigs practically anything, they're relatively efficient in processing it, they live in an amazingly wide range of conditions, and it's not nearly as bad for you. It's the most widely consumed meat in the world; more than a third of all meat produced on this planet is pork. PERIOD.


----------



## tp49 (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


How did a thread about meat evolve into a thread about floor cleaning?

Or is what both of you mean to say moping, which is a different thing entirely.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 21, 2009)

i've never had steak. whats it like.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jul 21, 2009)

Hey, I like lamb. I like pork. My favorite is actually buffalo. But I'll take a nice steak. I like a good pot roast, too.

Meat is murder....juicy, delicious murder.


----------



## Neil_M (Jul 21, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> i've never had steak. whats it like.


Tastes like chicken!


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 21, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > i've never had steak. whats it like.
> ...


chicken flavored cows huh. so what happened a chicken and a cow had a one night stand. :lol: both got loaded and woke up the next day wondering what happened last night.


----------



## Neil_M (Jul 21, 2009)

zephyr17 said:


> Meat is murder....juicy, delicious murder.


That's why animals are made of meat!


----------



## Chris J. (Jul 21, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > Meat is murder....juicy, delicious murder.
> ...


Cows are devices to convert grass into food =)


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> So when Amtrak serves a Different "cut of meat" that is NOT a Steak, it CANNOT become a Steak just by cooking it in one of the (less-usual) styles in which a True Steak could have been cooked!


Except for the fact that it is the same cut of meat, cooked differently.

Source.



> The flat iron is one of the few beef cuts that has the ability to be cooked with dry heat as a steak, or braised in a flavorful liquid, and produce a juicy, fork-tender, flavorful product. We have had great luck with the flat iron as a cooked-to-order steak, and my goal, knowing the versatility of the cut, was to offer a preparation that would successfully showcase it as a braised item. It will begin dining car service nearly everywhere in early June.


Perhaps instead of a steak, a generous helping of crow is in order for you.


----------



## wayman (Jul 21, 2009)

I think this argument is approaching "well done". :huh: To each of you, I say "Don't have a cow, man!" 

Let's just get back to riding trains and eating whatever our personal favorite foods are--_cow_abunga, dude! h34r: h34r: h34r: h34r: (too bad I can't make the ninja smileys each have the appropriate turtle colors!)


----------



## AlanB (Jul 21, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I thought the new legislation loosened the onboard services for the diners to include more help where needed? Did that not happen?


I wasn't aware of any new legislation that removed the directive that Amtrak cut the looses in food service.

But that said, Congress never told Amtrak how to cut those looses either. Amtrak choose the method that it did all on it's own. However, Amtrak has since revised the formulas that determine how many crew members are assigned to the dining car. It's a combination of the load in the sleeper car, plus the load in the passenger cars. Those formulas today are much more favorable to the passengers than they were when Amtrak first implimented SDS.


----------



## Bierboy (Jul 21, 2009)

Tony said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > ... with horn blasts and the noise and bumps of tracks.
> ...


Oh, yes....exactly my thoughts....now, I'm getting sleepy......


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 21, 2009)

This makes the best sense.


----------



## sky12065 (Jul 21, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Neil_M said:
> 
> 
> > amtrakwolverine said:
> ...


A chicken and a cow? :unsure: "There's something wrong with that picture" sez the rooster to the bull! :blink:


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > So when Amtrak serves a Different "cut of meat" that is NOT a Steak, it CANNOT become a Steak just by cooking it in one of the (less-usual) styles in which a True Steak could have been cooked!
> ...


What you are saying is that they take a Steak and mistreat it beyond all recognition, such that even Amtrak themselves no longer sees fit to call it a "Steak".

But this is NOT what I was talking about. I was talking about "when Amtrak serves a Different cut of meat that is NOT a steak". A different matter entirely.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...&hl=braised

According to jim55, quoted on 5-21-09,

"one bite and something was wrong. The guy across from me said 'did you see the asterisk (*) by the flat iron steak on the menu? ...beef shanks will be substituted... when flat iron steaks are no longer available.'"

This is part of the "recent reduction of quality" that I was referring to.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


Regardless of how it's cooked, a steak is a steak is a stake. No matter what you or Amtrak see fit to call it.


> But this is NOT what I was talking about. I was talking about "when Amtrak serves a Different cut of meat that is NOT a steak". A different matter entirely.
> http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...&hl=braised
> 
> According to jim55, quoted on 5-21-09,
> ...


Perhaps you should have alluded to that, since the topic of THIS THREAD is the braised version of the Flat Iron STEAK. You're really reaching here to try to justify yourself, rather than admit that you're wrong.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > This is part of the "recent reduction of quality" that I was referring to.
> ...


Yeah, I should have said something about when it's a different cut of meat that's not a Steak, then it doesn't become a Steak however you cook it. I can't see how I could have missed that.



HokieNav said:


> the topic of THIS THREAD is the braised version of the Flat Iron STEAK.


The Title of THIS THREAD is, "It's No Longer Flat Iron Steak".

Well, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But assuming it isn't, then it must be a different cut of meat. Or don't you think so?


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> Well, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But assuming it isn't, then it must be a different cut of meat. Or don't you think so?


Try reading the article that I linked. Or the portion that I quoted if you can't be bothered to click on the link. I'll state it as clearly as I can. They. Are. The. Same. Cut. Of. Meat.

Reaching into a different thread about a different topic completely is the height of lameness. The shank substitution due to availability and the different prep method for the summer are two completely different topics.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> Reaching into a different thread about a different topic completely is the height of lameness. The shank substitution due to availability and the different prep method for the summer are two completely different topics.


Absolutely right. I should only quote from THIS CURRENT THREAD. OK, here goes with Post #30:



Rob_C said:


> Steak is a staple of just about every American restaurant. This substitution thing is really a disapointment...


"Substitution Thing" indeed. Sounds fishy to me. Almost like substituting a DIFFERENT CUT OF MEAT THAT IS NOT A STEAK.

Not that they do it every time, to be sure. But when they DO, it is both disappointing and a clear "reduction in quality".

IMHO.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > Reaching into a different thread about a different topic completely is the height of lameness. The shank substitution due to availability and the different prep method for the summer are two completely different topics.
> ...


I never claimed that. But if you're going to try to say that substituting a lesser cut of meat is a vile atrocity that should be avoided in a topic that is about serving the same cut of meat prepared differently, then perhaps at some point you should indicate such.


> Rob_C said:
> 
> 
> > Steak is a staple of just about every American restaurant. This substitution thing is really a disapointment...
> ...


You still don't get it. You're confusing the substitute beef shank that happens occasionally with a planned, temporary change to the menu. Once you get that clear in your head, all of this will make sense to you.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> If you're going to try to say that substituting a lesser cut of meat is a vile atrocity that should be avoided... then perhaps at some point you should indicate such.


Yeah, I should have said something like, "if they serve a DIFFERENT CUT OF MEAT that is not a steak, it cannot become a steak no matter how you cook it, and this is a lamentable reduction in quality." I can't see how I neglected to make that clear.



HokieNav said:


> You still don't get it.


Obviously not.



HokieNav said:


> You're confusing the substitute beef shank that happens occasionally with a planned, temporary change to the menu. Once you get that clear in your head, all of this will make sense to you.


Not likely at all. You underestimate the Power of an Obtuse Mind!


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > If you're going to try to say that substituting a lesser cut of meat is a vile atrocity that should be avoided... then perhaps at some point you should indicate such.
> ...


Unfortunately, in the context of the discussion, nobody (but you) was talking about serving a different cut of meat.

In hindsight, it should have been obvious that you were on a different page (of a different menu, even) when you said:



p&sr said:


> I said that "Beef is NOT ALWAYS the BEST". One reason it is NOT ALWAYS the BEST is the recent reduction in Beef Quality on Amtrak. There is NO substitute for Steak. Pot Roast is just fine for those who like it (Which I most certainly DO), but it is NOT STEAK and can NEVER replace Steak on a Menu. And the fact that some poor souls who overlook the Fine Print actually THINK they're ordering Steak, only to be Heartbroken at finding some Braised Whatever on their Plates... well, that's just a crying shame.


since there is no "fine print" to lead people to think that they are ordering steak:

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/menus/Menu_diningcar-0609.pdf

If you want to mope about the substitution of a lesser quality of meat being substituted during times of high demand, you've linked to the proper thread for that.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> There is no "fine print" to lead people to think that they are ordering steak:


Does this mean that they are NOT ordering Steak, but some Different Cut of Meat? Wouldn't that be a Reduction of Quality?



HokieNav said:


> In hindsight, it should have been obvious that you were on a different page...


So what else is new?


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > There is no "fine print" to lead people to think that they are ordering steak:
> ...


You aren't ordering a different cut of meat! Braised flat iron steak is the same cut of meat as grilled flat iron steak. There may be a reduction of enjoyment because the customer had preferred grilling versus braising-- however this does not equate to a reduction of quality. A reduction of quality would be either a lesser cut of beef, or a bad attempt at braising. The prior is simply not true and the latter is just confused with people who think that braising makes the steak "of a lesser quality" and is thus misconstrued mistruth.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > HokieNav said:
> ...


Well, thank goodness for that. (As long as they don't substitute it as in Post#30 of This Thread.)

I guess HokieNav got it wrong about the fine print, where he said people were NOT being led to believe they were ordering Steak, but some Different Cut of Meat that is NOT a Steak.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


Now you are confusing two different issues.

First there is a long-dead issue of the "shank-steak" (no such thing as a steak from beef shank). Amtrak would sometimes put a braised beef shank in place of the grilled flat iron. This had some "fine print" involved and was a different cut of meat.

This braised shank is similar to the current menu selection but different on a number of factors: the main one being the use of flat iron steak instead of cheaper shank. This is a HUGE increase of quality, actually, and while it may have somehow confused you-- most people recognize that braised steak is steak nonetheless.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> First there is a long-dead issue of the "shank-steak" (no such thing as a steak from beef shank).


Yeah, like I said. It's a Different Cut of Meat that is NOT a Steak. I should have made that more clear.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Amtrak would sometimes put a braised beef shank in place of the grilled flat iron. This had some "fine print" involved and was a different cut of meat.


Interesting. I should have mentioned that.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > First there is a long-dead issue of the "shank-steak" (no such thing as a steak from beef shank).
> ...


And it is an entirely separate issue... the braised beef on the menu for all trains but the EB is flat iron steak, NOT shank meat. It is a high quality cut cooked in a method that works well for the ability of the cut.

You completely do not understand the issues and have taken to the very annoying, and immature, tactic as to taking my words out of their contexts. What a shame, up until now I had at least considered you honorable. Now you're just being silly.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> I guess HokieNav got it wrong about the fine print, where he said people were NOT being led to believe they were ordering Steak, but some Different Cut of Meat that is NOT a Steak.


Wrong again. You quite obviously didn't bother to look at the menu that I linked that has no fine print on it. I should have said "there is no "fine print" to lead people to think that they are ordering *grilled*steak", since you can't seem to separate the cut of meat and the method of preparation in your head.

People were not being led to believe that they had ordered a grilled steak. They were being served EXACTLY WHAT WAS ON THE MENU, hence no disappointment is possible.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > I guess HokieNav got it wrong about the fine print, where he said people were NOT being led to believe they were ordering Steak, but some Different Cut of Meat that is NOT a Steak.
> ...


Different menu, once again. ALC just said about there being fine print on the menu. He wouldn't get that WRONG, would he?


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Now you're just being silly.


Yeah, me and who else?

This whole Tread just stabs a STEAK into my heart. Such a bitter disappointment.

Looks like I'll have to get back to "Mopping" again

(sees blood from heart-stab running across the Kitchen Floor...)

It's been fun. TTYL, and enjoy the meals on Amtrak.

PS -- Take a Tip from me, and just order the Chicken. It's a LOT less controversial!


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


Umm.. no. You're wrong. Again. There is no fine print on this new menu. HokieNav is 100% correct. You're wrong.

Though by the time you quote this, I wouldn't be surprised if you started deleting my words to work my words. Obviously fact has no meaning with you.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > p&sr said:
> ...


No he wouldn't. Since we're talking about two different menus, it's quite possible for both of us to be right. You continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding that there are two completely different topics at hand here, and you're the only one that keeps mistakenly bringing the substitution of a lesser quality of meat in a thread talking about a different meal, served off of a different menu.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Though by the time you quote this, I wouldn't be surprised if you...


Whatever. Just order the Chicken.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> You continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding that there are two completely different topics at hand here...


No, you continue to DENY that both topics are being discussed. Or were. (To the Point of disgust, no doubt.)

TTYL and enjoy the Trains, and ALL of their Menus, WITH or WITHOUT fine print! Either way, there's plenty to go around.

And like I said to ALC... Keep life simple and just order the Chicken.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > You continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding that there are two completely different topics at hand here...
> ...


You are the only person in the thread that kept coming back to the matter of substitution of a different cut of meat. ALC and I trying to convince you that it's a different issue don't count.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

Seems simple to me.

On all trains, order the steak and you get braised flat iron steak. On the EB, order the grilled flat iron and it will be cooked to order. Nothing confusing there. Just steak.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 21, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> You are the only person in the thread that kept coming back to the matter of substitution of a different cut of meat.


 Right again. Funny how hard it is to get a point across sometimes, isn't it?

I think we understand one another at last. We're talking about DIFFERENT issues, DIFFERENT menus... (and, dare i say it, a DIFFERENT cut of meat? Nah, couldn't be.)


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > You are the only person in the thread that kept coming back to the matter of substitution of a different cut of meat.
> ...


Nope. The braised beef currently on all Amtrak menus out West is a braised flat iron steak.


----------



## Neil_M (Jul 21, 2009)

I have heard the chicken is actually turkey............ :lol:


----------



## Ryan (Jul 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > You are the only person in the thread that kept coming back to the matter of substitution of a different cut of meat.
> ...


Outside of the different cut of meat bit, welcome to where the rest of the thread has been the whole time. It's been a tough road, but I'm proud of you for catching up with the rest of us. Give yourself a gold star!


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 21, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier! I was stuck on a siding waiting for a freight - during the H3(a)(7) segment! :lol:


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > jackal said:
> ...


Damnit! That was my destroyer!


----------



## RTOlson (Jul 21, 2009)

For the sake of steak completeness (to say nothing of steak doneness), here is the beef entree from my June trip on Empire Builder.







Technically, it was called the "Butcher’s Choice Cut Steak." It certainly appeared like a steak to me.

It was a little tough and wasn't as flavorful as I would've hoped, but it wasn't as bloody as the medium-rare Flat Iron I had on Zephyr last year.

Comparing the braised beef on Starlight to the Empire Builder's grilled steak, I think I preferred the braised beef although I would be happy with either option.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

RTOlson said:


> It was a little tough and wasn't as flavorful as I would've hoped, but it wasn't as bloody as the medium-rare Flat Iron I had on Zephyr last year.
> Comparing the braised beef on Starlight to the Empire Builder's grilled steak, I think I preferred the braised beef although I would be happy with either option.


let me guess-- you ordered a flat iron (which is what that cut is)... medium well, or well done?

As Adam Savage would say: "Well there's your problem!"


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 21, 2009)

Having just finished a 16 state/9 train journey of the West I must say that the Beef Pot Roast on the

SSL was simply terrible! and the flat iron Steak on the EB was OK!Much preferred the Sea Food items

and the Chicken and I am a native,beef eating Texan!Lets hope that the food gurus in AMtrak have

gotten the word to trash the Pot Roast version or call it by its name and cut the price since

its NOT worht the $22.50 that everyone pays for whether in Coach or Sleeper!!(No free lunch!!)

Lamb is an acquired taste like lots of things, is it easy to pre-prepare and heat and eat???


----------



## RTOlson (Jul 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> RTOlson said:
> 
> 
> > It was a little tough and wasn't as flavorful as I would've hoped, but it wasn't as bloody as the medium-rare Flat Iron I had on Zephyr last year.
> ...


I sure did order it "medium well." On Zephyr in July 2008, I asked for my steak medium rare and it was extremely bloody (or at least juicy). I was hoping for something in between.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 21, 2009)

RTOlson said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > RTOlson said:
> ...


When you cook steak the fat melts, leaving empty space in its place. That's why steaks loose weight when they cook-- however these empty spaces are what makes it tender, you're cutting through a steak full of millions of small holes.

The problem is when you order it medium-well or well done then the protein tissues become more rigid and pull together pushing out the air where the fat used to be-- that means instead of cutting into empty space you're cutting into solid protein.

Flat iron steak, coming from the belly of the bovine, has little fat (marbling) to begin with. If you order it above medium you are in fact ordering a tougher steak. In proper steakhouses, most cuts are not allowed to be ordered above medium, simply because it will spoil the meat.

If you have an aversion to blood-- think of this... that's not blood. That actually is a combination of water and broken down protein chains and tissues that have combined. Cow blood is actually more viscous than human blood, some say it has the viscosity of cheap maple syrup-- this I can attest to.

Moral of the story, some friendly steak-eating advice-- Keep it medium or under. Medium-rare is usually best-- and ALWAYS remember that if your steak isn't done enough, they can always throw it back on the grill and you have the right to complain. One of the simplest things a cook must master is the ability to cook meat to order. There is no excuse for not being able to cook a cut to order. :lol:


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Flat iron steak, coming from the belly of the bovine...



You mean shoulder top blade (Flat Iron) steak?


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Flat iron steak, coming from the belly of the bovine...
> ...


Sorry, I was cooking brisket this evening... I had it on my mind.

For purposes of the meat however, the two have similar marble and cooked in similar methods-- as far as braising goes. Best done in tomatoes.


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


mmmm, brisket!


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > PetalumaLoco said:
> ...


Cooked it for over six hours... ohh yeah.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 22, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Lets hope that the food gurus in AMtrak havegotten the word to trash the Pot Roast version or call it by its name


They call it exactly what it is, and according to the article that I linked to (and has been linked to from here before), it's going away when the summertime crowds die down.


----------



## Tony (Jul 22, 2009)

Milk and beer ?? 



RTOlson said:


>


----------



## wayman (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Moral of the story, some friendly steak-eating advice-- Keep it medium or under. Medium-rare is usually best-- and ALWAYS remember that if your steak isn't done enough, they can always throw it back on the grill and you have the right to complain. One of the simplest things a cook must master is the ability to cook meat to order. There is no excuse for not being able to cook a cut to order. :lol:


While you can throw the meat back on the grill at home, I'm pretty sure that a restaurant (and hence also Amtrak) cannot do this, as it violates a health regulation to put food that has been served back onto cooking surfaces. You do have the right to complain, but if they take your plate back to the kitchen and return with a steak cooked more to your liking I'm pretty sure you're getting a new steak, not the same one cooked a bit more.


----------



## gswager (Jul 22, 2009)

wayman said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Moral of the story, some friendly steak-eating advice-- Keep it medium or under. Medium-rare is usually best-- and ALWAYS remember that if your steak isn't done enough, they can always throw it back on the grill and you have the right to complain. One of the simplest things a cook must master is the ability to cook meat to order. There is no excuse for not being able to cook a cut to order. :lol:
> ...


Plus you'll have to wait a little longer and then eat by yourself.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

wayman said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Moral of the story, some friendly steak-eating advice-- Keep it medium or under. Medium-rare is usually best-- and ALWAYS remember that if your steak isn't done enough, they can always throw it back on the grill and you have the right to complain. One of the simplest things a cook must master is the ability to cook meat to order. There is no excuse for not being able to cook a cut to order. :lol:
> ...


I may not know about Amtrak, but trust that restaurants do this as common practice.


----------



## MrFSS (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > While you can throw the meat back on the grill at home, I'm pretty sure that a restaurant (and hence also Amtrak) cannot do this, as it violates a health regulation to put food that has been served back onto cooking surfaces. You do have the right to complain, but if they take your plate back to the kitchen and return with a steak cooked more to your liking I'm pretty sure you're getting a new steak, not the same one cooked a bit more.
> ...


Do what - start with a fresh piece of meat or throw yours back on the grill?


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > wayman said:
> ...


Throw one back on the grill. Unless the cook cut out a piece of meat to make the new steak look exactly like the one I sent back-- then the steak I sent back came back, cooked a little more.


----------



## PaulM (Jul 22, 2009)

RTOlson said:


>


I like pot roast as much as the next guy. But if you take away the vegetables, that looks like the daily special at the spit 'n whittle cafe in just about any Midwestern small town. :angry:


----------



## RTOlson (Jul 22, 2009)

^^

Most of the greasy spoons I've been to would include the veggies.



Tony said:


> Milk and beer ??
> 
> 
> RTOlson said:
> ...


Ha! Milk was the beverage included with the meal (I don't drink coffee and rarely tea) and I wanted a beer with the steak. It worked out all right for me!


----------



## had8ley (Jul 22, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Having just finished a 16 state/9 train journey of the West I must say that the Beef Pot Roast on theSSL was simply terrible! and the flat iron Steak on the EB was OK!Much preferred the Sea Food items
> 
> and the Chicken and I am a native,beef eating Texan!Lets hope that the food gurus in AMtrak have
> 
> ...


The lamb shanks that were on the menu for a couple of years were great (if you like lamb.) I tried to order it still sitting in CUS on #59 and they told me they were already sold out. The caterer only put 10 on and I was #11 :angry:


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## the_traveler (Jul 22, 2009)

had8ley said:


> The lamb shanks that were on the menu for a couple of years were great (if you like lamb.) I tried to order it still sitting in CUS on #59 and they told me they were already sold out. The caterer only put 10 on and I was #11 :angry:


Last year on the EB, I tried to order the chicken - and was told they were out! It was the first meal out of CHI and I had the 1st seating! :blink:


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 22, 2009)

:lol:



the_traveler said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > The lamb shanks that were on the menu for a couple of years were great (if you like lamb.) I tried to order it still sitting in CUS on #59 and they told me they were already sold out. The caterer only put 10 on and I was #11 :angry:
> ...


Guess the crew must have eaten before the pax boarded! :lol: I ordered vanilla ice cream leaving

SEA on #8 and they told me that they were "out", only had chocolate!One SA did say that the

commisary was out,cant remeber if it was in SEA or CHI but if one doesnt eat cheescake or like

the wonderful bundt cake or delicious apple pie on this train its chocolate hagen-daas or nothing!


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## Bierboy (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow...all this uproar over a little piece of meat....


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## Neil_M (Jul 22, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> Wow...all this uproar over a little piece of meat....


I know, sad ain't it?

Funny really, Summer time, busy trains, high prices and Amtrak reduce the quality of the food on the menu...... Strange restaurant that takes steak off the menu because it is busy!

Still, at least the Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada is fine and dandy!


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## sky12065 (Jul 22, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...all this uproar over a little piece of meat....
> ...


Hey, at least there's plenty of meat to this conversation!  And there's no asking here... "WHERE'S THE BEEF!" :lol: .... :unsure:


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## the_traveler (Jul 22, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> And there's no asking here... "WHERE'S THE BEEF!" :lol: .... :unsure:


But we do ask "*WHAT'S* THE BEEF?" :lol:


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## PaulM (Jul 22, 2009)

RTOlson said:


> Most of the greasy spoons I've been to would include the veggies.


Whoa there!!!

I know it's not yuppie food, but a spit 'n whittle cafe is not a greasy spoon. But to be more accurate, the pot roast, I mean brazed flat iron, would be accompanied by mashed potatoes and gravy and corn or green beans.


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## catblue (Jul 22, 2009)

wayman said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Moral of the story, some friendly steak-eating advice-- Keep it medium or under. Medium-rare is usually best-- and ALWAYS remember that if your steak isn't done enough, they can always throw it back on the grill and you have the right to complain. One of the simplest things a cook must master is the ability to cook meat to order. There is no excuse for not being able to cook a cut to order. :lol:
> ...


I ordered a steak at a local restaurant just today. The server ask me to cut it to see if it was cooked well enough, I did and it was not. She took it back to the kitchen and when she came back it was the same steak as I had sent back. I know because of the way I cut it. Not the first time this has happen and I am pretty sure I get the same steak back most every time. I can only speak from my experiences.


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## sechs (Jul 23, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> Wow...all this uproar over a little piece of meat....


People are so stuck on beef... that they know nothing about it.

Folks need to talk to their butchers sometimes. And I'm not talking about that guy who puts out the nice foam and plastic bits in the display at the supermarket.


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## RTOlson (Jul 23, 2009)

PaulM said:


> RTOlson said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the greasy spoons I've been to would include the veggies.
> ...


Sorry, I'm not familiar with spit 'n whittle cafes and guessed based on the images that the name conjured.


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## RRrich (Jul 23, 2009)

RTOlson said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > RTOlson said:
> ...


I think that if they are spitting in the cafe whittle me won't be there - but I hope the food inspector will be!


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