# Negative long distance trip review article based lack of value and inedible food



## Amtrakfflyer (Jul 13, 2021)

I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train from New York to Chicago and found it wasn't worth the $550 price tag


An Insider reporter booked a room on an Amtrak train and found the small space not to be worth the $550 price tag.




www.yahoo.com





He probably didn’t even pay the highest fare. Reports roll was best part of dinner. I hope this makes it to Amtrak management and congressional staffers.


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## TC_NYC (Jul 13, 2021)

Such a rookie trip report. First he didn't go to the wonderful new lounge at Monihan. He made it sound like he wasn't allowed to leave his room the entire trip, didn't go to the diner for his dinner and should have been given a menu for his meal choices.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Jul 13, 2021)

I think that’s the issue. Most of the traveling public ARE rookies when it comes to Amtrak. Amtrak should state on tickets or at least when tickets are purchased that sleeper fares grant access to lounges as a perk. As far as leaving room or going to the lounge. Some sleeper attendants give great orientation briefings as to the trains amenities and then again some don’t even introduce themselves. The Cap limited doesn’t have a SL lounge anymore does it? As far as the diner lounge it appears the LSA is allowed a lot of leeway in how they decide to operate it on any given trip.

This all points to the lack of standardized service levels across the system and the fact fares are too high for what’s received especially on east coast trains.


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## Qapla (Jul 13, 2021)

From reading the article he went into it with a preconceived idea that he would not like the trip ... statements like he loves to fly, he's always been warry of LD trains, he kept mentioning the 19 hours, he compared it to tiny houses and custom vans and was hoping he could endure it, he kept referring to the bed as being "suspended" from the ceiling, he thought it was strange to eat at 5 PM when many people eat at that time everyday, he did not like the rocking motion and mentioned motion sickness while many like the rocking motion and find it soothing, he declared that after 19 hours the train "finally" pulled into Chicago ... he knew it was a 19 hour trip so it arrived on-time, not finally ... He even wrapped things up by admitting, "I realized the experience wasn't as awful as I thought it would be." - he was expecting the experience to be bad so it was.

He concluded with the sentiment that, "for practical reasons, there's a faster and easier way to go, so next time, I'll stick to the skies instead of the rails." I disagree. There is just as much hassle (or more) to go to the airport and deal with the issues flying has.

If I were to write a review of taking a plane from Florida to NY I am sure it would not be very complimentary since I don't fly - so, knowing I would not like it ahead of time nothing about the flight would make me recommend flying just like he does not recommend trains.

I will agree with him that the price is a bit too high - but that is also a subjective view.


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## lordsigma (Jul 13, 2021)

I don’t think this guy would have liked it no matter what. He seemed to go into it with a pretty negative outlook. Didn’t go to the diner to socialize or at least stretch his legs - basically stayed in his room on Netflix. Train travel isn’t for everyone.


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## kbmiflyer (Jul 13, 2021)

If he had done 10 minutes of research before going he would have not been "surprised" by so many things. It sounds like he boarded with coach passengers.


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## VentureForth (Jul 14, 2021)

But, "we" as a community know better. As an "outsider" - you know, the pool of potential passengers that Amtrak needs to convince in order to be viable - he repeats common issues that "newbies" suffer through, and those are issues that make this their first and last time on the rail experiment.

Customer service, real service, and consistent service are a basic requirement to obtain and retain new customers. Unfortunately, Amtrak sucks at all three.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Unfortunately, this guy IS the norm for people who don’t take the train.
Most people would rather pay up for business class.

He absolutely went into it with a negative outlook and didn’t even review any of the more positive portions of the trip, like the end stations.

It makes me want to scream that he couldn’t experience a real meal... the one aspect of trains that could win against flying and roads 100% of the time, and Amtrak won’t do it.


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## dlagrua (Jul 14, 2021)

I read the entire article and agree with many of the writers comments. The subjects of* value* on the NYP-CHI trip when compared to air travel and poor food quality are valid points. The man also noticed that the bedrooms were empty. What does this say? IMO, Amtrak needs to prove that with the high prices charged, they offer a unique travel experience with first class service, food and amenities. The high bucket NYP-CHI sleeper fare is now something like $1700 one way. With the way things are, there is little value in that fare. Long time Amtrak travelers like us have been alienated by the state of Amtrak LD travel and are now flying. We would certainly return to rail travel but not the way things are at the present time. We also have pre-check now that streamlines the security process and that removes one objection to flying. Conclusion: Like every other service, Amtrak needs to earn our business.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jul 14, 2021)

dlagrua said:


> I read the entire article and agree with many of the writers comments. The subjects of* value* on the NYP-CHI trip when compared to air travel and poor food quality are valid points. The man also noticed that the bedrooms were empty. What does this say? IMO, Amtrak needs to prove that with the high prices charged, they offer a unique travel experience with first class service, food and amenities. The high bucket NYP-CHI sleeper fare is now something like $1700 one way. With the way things are, there is little value in that fare. Long time Amtrak travelers like us have been alienated by the state of Amtrak LD travel and are now flying. We would certainly return to rail travel but not the way things are at the present time. We also have pre-check now that streamlines the security process and that removes one objection to flying. Conclusion: Like every other service, Amtrak needs to earn our business.



Agreed. This is all well and good, but lets not forget that for some, Amtrak is not a business for success to be earned, but it is rather an essential service. The privilege of driving and/or flying does not extend to all.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 14, 2021)

The report sounds like his SCA was not fulfilling his/her responsibilities unless he failed to mention that the SCA did give him an orientation briefing. I can't imagine just "any old menu item" would be delivered to a guest. Makes me think there is "more to this story" than he has written.


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## Qapla (Jul 14, 2021)

When your intent is to write a negative article before you even take the trip ... why would you mention all the positive things when you can make the negative things stand out so much more by leaving some details out.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> I can't imagine just "any old menu item" would be delivered to a guest. Makes me think there is "more to this story" than he has written.


My first thought was that he pre-ordered his meal. However, even if I pre-order a meal, I would like to decide when it is eaten. It sounds like the dining car attendant wanted to take care of the New York passengers before the Boston passengers joined the train.


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## lordsigma (Jul 14, 2021)

dlagrua said:


> I read the entire article and agree with many of the writers comments. The subjects of* value* on the NYP-CHI trip when compared to air travel and poor food quality are valid points. The man also noticed that the bedrooms were empty. What does this say? IMO, Amtrak needs to prove that with the high prices charged, they offer a unique travel experience with first class service, food and amenities. The high bucket NYP-CHI sleeper fare is now something like $1700 one way. With the way things are, there is little value in that fare. Long time Amtrak travelers like us have been alienated by the state of Amtrak LD travel and are now flying. We would certainly return to rail travel but not the way things are at the present time. We also have pre-check now that streamlines the security process and that removes one objection to flying. Conclusion: Like every other service, Amtrak needs to earn our business.


The writer made some valid points, but he also went into it with a rather negative outlook. If you convince yourself enough that you aren't going to like something you'll probably find a way not to. Amtrak is far from perfect - but train travel in general is also not for everyone. I respect your perspective and opinion that Amtrak currently is not worth your business and that you feel flying is a better value and overall better experience at this time but that you'd consider going back if prices went down or amenities improved and Amtrak certainly has room for improvement - but airlines are not totally innocent of making service and amenity cuts. Once again train travel is not for everyone and overnight train travel is even more not for everyone and I don't expect this gentleman would have liked it no matter what the food was or anything else - he just seemed to have a general snarkiness about train travel in general. I'm not saying Amtrak doesn't have room for improvement and doesn't need new riders. But I just had a recent Amtrak trip that I really have no complaints about including two legs on the reviewed train and pretty much good service across the board - and I was on 4 different trains. And there were other non baby boomers on board who seemed to be having a good time. Not everyone is having never again experiences. Train travel is for people who just want to sit back and enjoy the journey and not just worry about getting there - looking out the window and meeting new people - that isn't everyone.


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## lordsigma (Jul 14, 2021)

I'd also be curious exactly when he took his trip - the environment on the train presently is much better than it was a couple months ago - less restrictive seating in the diner/sleeper lounge gives you a place to go.


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## Synthguy1 (Jul 14, 2021)

I agree with most of what has been said. Amtrak does need to work harder to make the experience better. First impressions and all of that stuff. But, I think the gentleman should have approached the trip with an open mind. I used to love flying, but having gotten older I find that it bothers me more dealing with all the airport hassles. And even though it's "safer" nowadays, I still can't fully relax on a plane. And forget trying to sleep lol. Tomorrow my wife and I will board the California Zephyr for a bucket list trip to San Francisco. Looking forward to the whole 52+ hr on board.


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## Asher (Jul 14, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> The report sounds like his SCA was not fulfilling his/her responsibilities unless he failed to mention that the SCA did give him an orientation briefing. I can't imagine just "any old menu item" would be delivered to a guest. Makes me think there is "more to this story" than he has written.



Uh Huh and it started back sometime when he was factoring in the price of flying and the thought he was doing all of us a favor.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 14, 2021)

lordsigma said:


> I don’t think this guy would have liked it no matter what. He seemed to go into it with a pretty negative outlook. Didn’t go to the diner to socialize or at least stretch his legs - basically stayed in his room on Netflix. Train travel isn’t for everyone.


And can you imagine if he was expecting to watch Netflix on a Western train? Lol. Unless he has some Netflix discs. They used to do that.


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## Sidney (Jul 14, 2021)

dlagrua said:


> I read the entire article and agree with many of the writers comments. The subjects of* value* on the NYP-CHI trip when compared to air travel and poor food quality are valid points. The man also noticed that the bedrooms were empty. What does this say? IMO, Amtrak needs to prove that with the high prices charged, they offer a unique travel experience with first class service, food and amenities. The high bucket NYP-CHI sleeper fare is now something like $1700 one way. With the way things are, there is little value in that fare. Long time Amtrak travelers like us have been alienated by the state of Amtrak LD travel and are now flying. We would certainly return to rail travel but not the way things are at the present time. We also have pre-check now that streamlines the security process and that removes one objection to flying. Conclusion: Like every other service, Amtrak needs to earn our business.


A $1700 bedroom between NY and Chicago is insane. Sadly,if one person is willing to pay that price,nothing will change. On top of that,you are getting flex food. Price gouging. No way in hell should Amtrak even THINK of charging that.I know,supply and demand,but this goes WAY beyond that.


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## John Bredin (Jul 14, 2021)

Qapla said:


> When your intent is to write a negative article before you even take the trip ... why would you mention all the positive things when you can make the negative things stand out so much more by leaving some details out.


That's the interesting thing about this review, it's actually pretty balanced and his conclusion isn't "Amtrak sux" but "An Amtrak trip may not be worth what they charge for it." He shows his work, so to speak, by describing the experience in enough detail that a reader can reach his/her own conclusion from his review and not necessarily rely on his conclusion.

I remember someone commenting that they always liked Roger Ebert's movie reviews because he explained in enough detail why he didn't like a movie that the commenter could use Ebert's review as a tool to reach his own conclusion as to whether the movie was worth seeing without necessarily relying on Ebert's yes/no conclusion. This review strikes me as being like that: a person could read it and conclude that a NY-Chi roomette was worth it for them.


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## flitcraft (Jul 14, 2021)

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, so there's that. But I have to admit I eyerolled a bit when he complained that the hallways on the train were so narrow that he could barely get his suitcase down them. I suspect he will be sorely disappointed with the aisles next plane trip he takes.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 14, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> And can you imagine if he was expecting to watch Netflix on a Western train? Lol. Unless he has some Netflix discs. They used to do that.



You can download Netflix movies / shows. You don’t need a constant internet connection.


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## neroden (Jul 14, 2021)

John Bredin said:


> That's the interesting thing about this review, it's actually pretty balanced and his conclusion isn't "Amtrak sux" but "An Amtrak trip may not be worth what they charge for it." He shows his work, so to speak, by describing the experience in enough detail that a reader can reach his/her own conclusion from his review and not necessarily rely on his conclusion.
> 
> I remember someone commenting that they always liked Roger Ebert's movie reviews because he explained in enough detail why he didn't like a movie that the commenter could use Ebert's review as a tool to reach his own conclusion as to whether the movie was worth seeing without necessarily relying on Ebert's yes/no conclusion. This review strikes me as being like that: a person could read it and conclude that a NY-Chi roomette was worth it for them.


Yeah, I actually thought it was a pretty positive review, except for (a) the food and (b) the price.

We all pretty much agree that Amtrak has been providing terrible food on the eastern trains; this is confirmation that this isn't just old railfans complaining about it, it's new riders too.

And we all pretty much agree that the prices are getting really high. (There are differing views on what to do about that; I think Amtrak needs to buy and deploy more sleeping cars on the eastern trains, and then lower prices to the price where the new, longer train fills up.)


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jul 14, 2021)

Well, I’m with him on the food and not wanting to go to the depressing “dining car” on the east coast trains yet.

But as for the rest:

The thing that struck me the most was that he enjoyed looking at the views of New York City, and that was the only scenery he had any interest in at all.

The trip along the Hudson River to Albany is beautiful, but he doesn’t even mention it.

I got the feeling he is a young, hyper-energetic type of person from NYC who does not know how to relax, so 19 hours in a train was misery for him, not something nice, and he could hardly wait to get back home to NYC.

He was too impatient to ask where sleeper passengers should board, so he walked through coaches he didn’t have to; he was too impatient to read up and find out about the sleeper lounge and so missed enjoying that; and he didn’t even bother to learn that the “large room” is called a bedroom—fine if you’re just chatting with your friends, but not for an article.

I understand that NYP might not be the friendliest place to ask for information, but if he’s from NYC himself, he would be used to that and not afraid to ask.

Or he could have done more research ahead of time, which is the responsible thing to do if you’re going to write an article.

With his supercilious and impatient attitude, I doubt that he will enjoy anything much in his life, and that’s a shame.


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## Asher (Jul 14, 2021)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Well, I’m with him on the food and not wanting to go to the depressing “dining car” on the east coast trains yet.
> 
> But as for the rest:
> 
> ...



I also was wondering about him traipsing the length of the train while boarding. Impatient or too Important.?


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## neroden (Jul 14, 2021)

anumberone said:


> I also was wondering about him traipsing the length of the train while boarding. Impatient or too Important.?


NY Penn Station boarding process is a bit notorious; I've had to jump on at the wrong spot and walk through the train before. :-(


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## mitako (Jul 14, 2021)

Exactly how wide did he expect hallways on a train to be? His points about expense and food are valid, but his personality kind of comes through as a whiner. Business Insider should have found someone a little more adventure-friendly to write this piece.


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## junebug (Jul 14, 2021)

A woman was dissing Amtrak on the Facebook page. I thought she might be a rookie just complaining. What happened to her sounded seriously bad. I messaged her to see if I could help. She was on the Coast Starlight from LA to Seattle. They bused them from LA to Sacramento and since she was on a pass, she said they just left them off in Sacramento to their own devices. She was crushed, wanting to show her husband how fun Amtrak is.


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## Asher (Jul 14, 2021)

mitako said:


> Exactly how wide did he expect hallways on a train to be? His points about expense and food are valid, but his personality kind of comes through as a whiner. Business Insider should have found someone a little more adventure-friendly to write this.
> I think the width of the corridor as a rule is about right. When the train is a rockin I like to keep my hands on the surface of both sides to keep from building up too much sideways motion. It would be easy to end up in someone’s room uninvited.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, so there's that. But I have to admit I eyerolled a bit when he complained that the hallways on the train were so narrow that he could barely get his suitcase down them. I suspect he will be sorely disappointed with the aisles next plane trip he takes.


I think his point was that the train should offer MORE space than the plane, especially if it costs a lot more.


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## Manny T (Jul 14, 2021)

Not sure I understand the dissing of the author's point of view. He paid $550 and spent 19 hours on a trip that can cost as little as $70 and take 1 hour 40 minutes in the air. So _he's _somehow deficient, as a first timer, because he didn't (i) check out the lounge (ii) enter the correct car to avoid a long walk through narrow corridors (iii) demand an orientation from his SCA (iv) receive a menu and order the meal of his choice (v) abandon his Netflix for a walk around the train and a look out the window and (vi) interact with fellow passengers during a worldwide Covid pandemic? I mean, the burden was _on him_ to navigate the Amtrak experience? We spend 1,000 posts on AU discussing how to get a minimally decent meal, yet he's supposed to board the first time and ace it? I don't think so. I think his account is legitimate and an honest appraisal of what he encountered and how he evaluated it. We all know the trip he described can be _exactly _how he presented it, and for him, it was.


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## lordsigma (Jul 14, 2021)

I can’t speak for everyone else but I’m not (at least for my own intentions) dissing the authors point of view - I’m simply saying train travel isn’t for everyone. I just feel that it’s unlikely this particular author would have liked train travel in any circumstance and I don’t feel a flat iron steak and cheese cake would have been a game changer there - and that’s ok. I have members of my own family I wouldn’t recommend overnight train travel to because they wouldn’t have the patience for it. It simply is not for everyone. That’s not being an apologist for Amtrak - there’s certainly criticism warranted including some points raised by this author and Amtrak could do more to improve amenities and service consistency with what’s being charged - but even with all that….train travel and especially overnight train travel isn’t for everyone - and again thats ok - it is for me but I am the weird one of the family as the train rider and I accept that. I’ll give him credit for giving it a shot.


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## ScottR (Jul 14, 2021)

Harummph. And i I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I would do that in a heartbeat. And I know the LSL is…well…not a great train.

By the same token I can wake up at the buttcrack of dawn, pay some bleary eyed Uber or cabby to take me to the airport….get stuck in morning traffic stressing if we are going to make it in time even though I left at 4.30 am, and then have to stand in an hour security line, wondering if I am going to make it though that, And invariably I always seem to need some extra screening…so there is that. And the Security line itself…. iPad in and out? Shoes and belts on or off?

If you think Amtrak is inconsistent you should fly out of some of our regional airports

So let’s say we made it through Security. Nothing is open in the airport but Starbucks and McDonalds, and what I really need at this point is a Bloody Mary, or at the very least a Mimosa, but there is none to be had, and the Starbucks line is 45 minutes long as it is the only thing open unless you want an Egg McMuffin. And it is still early, and everyone is grouchy.

But by the time I get my double latte, the flight is being called, so I rush over, 
make it onboard, only to find I am in the middle seat between two hefty guys.

Then the plane is delayed because there is a slow leak in one of the tires so we sit there for two hours. It’s Covid so there is no on board beverage or snack service and they don’t tell you what is going on, and I am in economy plus because my company is trying to economize.

Then the baby two rows up gets sick and throws up on mom and dad and the truly unfortunate passenger in the aisle seat….who though he was lucky because he had an aisle seat on a totally packed plane. I’m just glad it isn’t me.

Finally we take off only to arrive in Chicago 4 hours late, then have to wait on the tarmac 3 hours because the airport is a clusterf..k due to a hurricane down south.

so now it’s 4.30 am since I left, 8.30 pm since I arrived. Should have taken the train.


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## ScottR (Jul 14, 2021)

John Bredin said:


> That's the interesting thing about this review, it's actually pretty balanced and his conclusion isn't "Amtrak sux" but "An Amtrak trip may not be worth what they charge for it." He shows his work, so to speak, by describing the experience in enough detail that a reader can reach his/her own conclusion from his review and not necessarily rely on his conclusion.
> 
> I remember someone commenting that they always liked Roger Ebert's movie reviews because he explained in enough detail why he didn't like a movie that the commenter could use Ebert's review as a tool to reach his own conclusion as to whether the movie was worth seeing without necessarily relying on Ebert's yes/no conclusion. This review strikes me as being like that: a person could read it and conclude that a NY-Chi roomette was worth it for them.


Yes this is how I see it as well. Good take.


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## Qapla (Jul 15, 2021)

I used to watch Siskel and Ebert all the time - and I do NOT equate this review as reminiscent of an Ebert review. While Roger may have given a movie a  and explained why and left the decision to you .... he DID know about movies. He never gave a review that went something like:

"I really like TV programs better, especially the ones that are only an hour long but I decided to suffer through a 3 hour movie to see what it is like and, while the story was somewhat interesting, the popcorn and Coke cost too much, the seats didn't recline as far back as the one I have at home and the room was just too dark - but, I guess the movie was OK although it was not worth the money"

I don't fly! Can't take heights. Have never flown and don't plan to start now. That said, I would not decide to fly to write a review of the experience - I can tell you now, no matter how fast the plane was, how smooth the ride was, how cheap the ticket was ... I would not give a favorable sounding review because it would be my first, last and only plane ride.

That is how his review struck me. Had the ticket been $150 dollars and he got a steak and lobster dinner by candle light at a table with a white linen table cloth - he would still have said it wasn't worth the price - because it wasn't as fast as a plane ... it's that simple.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jul 15, 2021)

Manny T said:


> Not sure I understand the dissing of the author's point of view. He paid $550 and spent 19 hours on a trip that can cost as little as $70 and take 1 hour 40 minutes in the air. So _he's _somehow deficient, as a first timer, because he didn't (i) check out the lounge (ii) enter the correct car to avoid a long walk through narrow corridors (iii) demand an orientation from his SCA (iv) receive a menu and order the meal of his choice (v) abandon his Netflix for a walk around the train and a look out the window and (vi) interact with fellow passengers during a worldwide Covid pandemic? I mean, the burden was _on him_ to navigate the Amtrak experience? I mean, we spend 10,000 posts on AU dissecting how to get a minimally decent meal, and he's supposed to board the first time and ace it? I don't think so. I think his account is completely legitimate and an honest appraisal of what he encountered and how he evaluated it. No dissing is warranted imho. We all know the trip he described can be _exactly _how he presented it, and for him, it was.



I did not mean to come across as unkind—I certainly would never do that on purpose. If he were writing informally as a newbie traveler for other travelers, I would not have been so critical.

However, if this was an article for a professional publication, which I assumed it was, I do think the burden was on him to navigate the Amtrak experience—in other words, do his research thoroughly.

To his credit, his writing was clear, and I did not see any spelling or grammar errors (although I was skimming it so might have missed something).

I do think he came across, perhaps unintentionally, as feeling superior—especially with the implication that, after leaving New York City, there was nothing worth looking at—which may have led to some harsher reactions here than if he had seemed a bit more humble.


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## Ziv (Jul 15, 2021)

I was wondering about what the chances were that I could download a movie while the Empire Builder (or the CZ or the SWC...) was stopped for 6 minutes in Winona or 20 minutes in Havre. Do stations have wifi for travelers on the Western/LD trains? It would be phenomenal to have wifi for the entire trip but having it at the stations would at least allow me to get a movie or download a couple news articles at each stop.


crescent-zephyr said:


> You can download Netflix movies / shows. You don’t need a constant internet connection.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 15, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> You can download Netflix movies / shows. You don’t need a constant internet connection.


Ah. Clearly I don't watch much video stuff. I used to say that I don't watch TV, but then last year one time when I was very tired and decided to take a peek at my TV, I got on a Star Trek jag and have been wasting my time catching up on those that I never watched because I had given up on TV as a worthwhile activity when I was younger.


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## TEREB (Jul 15, 2021)

We’ve been Silver service snow birds for the past 11 years, with yearly trips to visit family for maybe 20 years prior. Always traveled in either roomettes or as we got older, bedrooms. Except for the first trip with my son in coach during mid winter recess when the heat was stuck on on for the entire trip. It was also my first day with hot flashes. . I cried and begged for a roomette or to be changed to another car, but no luck. Sold out train. 

With each of our trips we boarded with a positive attitude. We were finally able to relax. To enjoy the trip without worrying about the length of the ride. I would pack a little goodie bag with some snacks and a beer or 2 for my husband and a single serve wine or 2 for myself. Meals in the dining car was so enjoyable. Both with the food and our table mates. Our room attendants were always so friendly and helpful. On one trip to visit my dad in VA, my room attendant greeted me with little Hershey’s miniatures. I’m a chocolate lover, so he just stole my heart. That winter, I made many Silver Star trips to him before he passed away.

Then Flex meals was introduced. On our Oct 2019 trip, Food was bad. Terrible for what my husband ordered. Everything was over cooked. We were spoiled from wonderful meals in the past. Breakfast offered a beautiful bowl of fresh fruit. The star of all the meals. 

Our last trip was last month. We chose to stay in our bedroom for our meals. Sad to say, no fruit with breakfast. This time food, although not over cooked, was way too salty. Even for my hubby that salts everything even before tasting. 

We booked this trip knowing the food would be bad. Excited to be in a Viewliner II bedroom. Which I have mixed feelings about. Will I do it again? Yes. In a heartbeat. But if our next trip will still have the flex meals, The night before, I’ll go to ShopRite and order sandwiches to take onboard. 

BTW, we’ve paid as little as $800+ for a bedroom. Mostly in the $1,200 range and $1450 for our last trip with a few free trips sprinkled in between thanks to Guest Rewards.


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## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

The author has a new article out. Spoiler alert: He is hard to impress.









I tried Chicago's famous deep dish pizza for the first time and was not impressed


An Insider reporter, who is a born and bred New Yorker, tried deep dish pizza at Lou Malnati's in Chicago and didn't like the taste of the sauce.




www.insider.com


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> The author has a new article out. Spoiler alert: He is hard to impress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lou Malnati’s doesn’t have the atmosphere of the original Uno and Geno’s East - I agree it feels like a standard chain restaurant. 

The personal deep dish pizzas never taste like actual deep dish in my experience. So that was his other “rookie mistake.”


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## Qapla (Jul 15, 2021)

Headline for an article:

*



I've read two reviews from Frank Olito and was not impressed

Click to expand...

*


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## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

I also laughed when he said that he could not get deep dish pizza in New York City, but his friends recommended Unos in Chicago. According to Google there are at least two Unos in NYC.


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## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

I am starting to think that Mr. Olito is just a wee bit negative.









I tried living in a luxury camper van for a weekend during the winter, and I'll never do it again


An Insider reporter spent three nights in January in a camper van and found that van life isn't all that's it's cracked up to be.




www.insider.com













I tried making 2 grilled cheese sandwiches in my air fryer, and they were so dry I wouldn't do it again


It took 12 minutes for an Insider reporter to cook grilled cheese sandwiches in an air fryer, and he found them to be too dry and crunchy.




www.insider.com













I stayed at a campground for the first time in a camper van during the off-season, and I didn't think it was worth the price


An Insider reporter stayed at a campground just outside of Philadelphia in January and found it largely empty.




www.insider.com













I paid $1,000 to sleep in a tiny house on a remote island in the middle of New York City — and it was not worth the price


Collective Retreats has tiny homes on Governors Island that cost $1,000 a night, but the high price tag only includes scenic views and a complimentary breakfast.




www.insider.com


----------



## Qapla (Jul 15, 2021)

Maybe that headline should read:



> *I've read several reviews from Frank Olito and was not impressed*


----------



## Tlcooper93 (Jul 15, 2021)

To be fair, I tried Malnati’s just before boarding the C Zephyr and was utterly disappointed. Definitely had a better experience with other Chicago pizza chains (even Digiorno)

it was undercooked and pretty tasteless.


----------



## me_little_me (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> The author has a new article out. Spoiler alert: He is hard to impress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, since NY style pizza is the only REAL pizza, what would one expect? It's like ordering BBQ in NYC - you just don't do that! It's a mortal sin.

Like champagne which can only be made in the Champagne district of France (everything else is "sparkling wine"), pizza can only be made in NY (and some places in SOUTHERN Italy like at my cousins' house) unless made by a pizzamaker born and trained in NYC and who moved elsewhere to do missionary work teaching the heathens, savages and infidels to make real pizza instead of bowing to false idol pizzas. 

I'm not saying that the heathens, savages and infidels in Chicago make bad food - it just isn't pizza and it should be labelled as "pseudo-pizza" or "faux pizza" or "false idol pizza" to stop real New Yorkers form being cheated.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> pizza can only be made in NY


New Haven may have something to say about that.

Deep dish pizza is horrible, though. The proper food to eat in Chicago is a hot dog or an Italian beef.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 15, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> To be fair, I tried Malnati’s just before boarding the C Zephyr and was utterly disappointed. Definitely had a better experience with other Chicago pizza chains (even Digiorno)
> 
> it was undercooked and pretty tasteless.


PIZZA, Most Overated Food there is!


----------



## Oreius (Jul 15, 2021)

It seems to me the “reporter” didn’t partake in all the perks available when riding in a Sleeper. He didn’t check out ClubAcela before boarding. As a sleeper passenger that’s one of the perks you get. Also, they will actually board you from the lounge and take you to your assigned car. I rode the Meteor in February and they did just that. In fact, a RedCap took me up to check my suitcase at Philadelphia first then up to the lounge. 

Also, you are given a choice to either eat your meals in the diner or your room. It seems to me he CHOSE to eat in his room. Every SCA I’ve had has always introduced herself ( I’ve had ladies on my three trips). I’ve always eaten in the diner, even if the food is not freshly prepared; it’s part of the experience. 

All of my sleeper trips have been “free” (paid with AGR points). However, if I have time I will take a sleeper car over flying. You get much more room, and most importantly privacy. I am a large person, and have to buy two seats on an economy airline like Southwest. Most of the people in the sleepers are like me who love the train and/or older people who have the time. I don’t like security checkpoints or crowded airports. So, I disagree with much of the article.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> According to Google there are at least two Unos in NYC.



This is getting a bit technical but UNOs chain restaurants and the original Uno (and Due across the street) are actually 2 completely different restaurants. It’s a brand licensing deal. 

The same thing happened to Corkys BBQ in Memphis but I think all of those have closed now. (The chain, not the original location).


----------



## joelkfla (Jul 15, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> PIZZA, Most Overated Food there is!


Except NY Pizza.


----------



## Dakota 400 (Jul 15, 2021)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I got the feeling he is a young, hyper-energetic type of person from NYC who does not know how to relax, so 19 hours in a train was misery for him, not something nice, and he could hardly wait to get back home to NYC.



 I agree. I realize that I am of a different generation than this gentleman, but watching Netflex as much as he seemed to be doing? I don't understand that kind of behavior.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

My take, after skimming through a few dozen headlines of articles that he has written: He writes a ton of clickbait junk. At the risk of sounding rude, I hope that he did not spend too much on journalism school. Most of his articles are Buzzfeed type stuff.


----------



## mlanoue (Jul 15, 2021)

Lou Malnati's isn't the best out there, but it's great to stock up on them frozen--especially if there is a pandemic going on and you don't want to go to the grocery store. Probably some of the best frozen pizza you can get.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I am starting to think that Mr. Olito is just a wee bit negative.



If he’s this cranky as a young whiz kid, I can just imagine how much fun he will be to be around when he’s old and grumpy!

Which actually leads to, I think, a valid point—train travel, whether by choice or necessity, whether in sleeper or coach, comes with an underlying assumption that it will be fun. Not every minute of the trip, but part of it at least.

Of course, the fun has not been here this past year, with the pandemic. But it will return eventually.

I read a comment once (sorry, can’t remember where) that an Amtrak trip is a cross between a resort vacation and a camping trip. I thought that summed it up perfectly—some pampering, and some fending for yourself.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jul 15, 2021)

I don’t know why we are giving this guy so much grief. The gist of the article was service and food sucked and fare was too high. I think a decent majority of us agree with him on those points. Could he have made things better sure.

Maybe he read our thread, in a very strange twist the article came out again today. Slightly redone and slightly more positive. 










I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train for the first time. Here are 14 things that surprised me about the long-haul journey.


An Insider reporter was surprised to find that he could book a private room with a small bathroom on an overnight Amtrak train.




www.yahoo.com


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Maybe he read our thread, in a very strange twist the article came out again today. Slightly redone and slightly more positive.


If this guy expects to be taken seriously as a reporter, he really needs to fact check. This line was especially cringe-worthy:
_When I've ridden coach on past Amtrak trains, the conductors only checked my tickets and made sure everyone was following the rules. In the sleeper car, I was shocked to learn the conductors did so much more. They brought me food, drinks, and even offered turn-down service._

I don't have a problem with his overall disappointment. I guess that I am just being grumpy about the state of journalism in the era of clickbaits.


----------



## flitcraft (Jul 15, 2021)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I read a comment once (sorry, can’t remember where) that an Amtrak trip is a cross between a resort vacation and a camping trip. I thought that summed it up perfectly—some pampering, and some fending for yourself.



Absolutely spot on. I may 'borrow' that description next time someone asks me about LD train travel.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> If this guy expects to be taken seriously as a reporter, he really needs to fact check. This line was especially cringe-worthy:
> _When I've ridden coach on past Amtrak trains, the conductors only checked my tickets and made sure everyone was following the rules. In the sleeper car, I was shocked to learn the conductors did so much more. They brought me food, drinks, and even offered turn-down service._
> 
> I don't have a problem with his overall disappointment. I guess that I am just being grumpy about the state of journalism in the era of clickbaits.



At least he didn’t call them porters! (Too soon?)


----------



## JoeZeppyPA (Jul 15, 2021)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train from New York to Chicago and found it wasn't worth the $550 price tag
> 
> 
> An Insider reporter booked a room on an Amtrak train and found the small space not to be worth the $550 price tag.
> ...



This reads like a Cheech and Chong Sister Mary Elephant class trip review. 

"On the first day of my vacation, I woke up. Then I went downtown. To start my vacation.
"On the second day of my vacation, I woke up. Then I went to the cafe car. To have my Amtrak breakfast."


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 15, 2021)

JoeZeppyPA said:


> This reads like a Cheech and Chong Sister Mary Elephant class trip review.
> 
> "On the first day of my vacation, I woke up. Then I went downtown. To start my vacation.
> "On the second day of my vacation, I woke up. Then I went to the cafe car. To have my Amtrak breakfast."



But you clicked it and read it! They get the $$$!!!


----------



## mitako (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> The author has a new article out. Spoiler alert: He is hard to impress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess he never heard of Yelp, which would have given him all the info that seemed to catch him by surprise at the restaurant, lol. He kind of seems like a guy who has a hard time dealing with things that aren't just the same as what he is used to. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but not the best personality trait for someone who reviews things for a living.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 15, 2021)

mitako said:


> I guess he never heard of Yelp, which would have given him all the info that seemed to catch him by surprise at the restaurant, lol. He kind of seems like a guy who has a hard time dealing with things that aren't just the same as what he is used to. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but not the best personality trait for someone who reviews things for a living.



I agree with everything he said. He would like the atmosphere of Uno, Due, it Genos East and he shouldn’t order the individual pizzas, they don’t give anyone a sense of “deep dish Chicago” - imho.


----------



## Sauve850 (Jul 15, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> My take, after skimming through a few dozen headlines of articles that he has written: He writes a ton of clickbait junk. At the risk of sounding rude, I hope that he did not spend too much on journalism school. Most of his articles are Buzzfeed type stuff.


I think his Amtrak article is fairly accurate. He may write some clickbait type articles and got lots of attention here on the forum. Your comment on his journalism school cost is rude.


----------



## Barb Stout (Jul 16, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I am starting to think that Mr. Olito is just a wee bit negative.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read a few of these and he is incredibly ignorant concerning the experiences he writes about. It really shouldn't be him writing about these things; he should either stick to something he knows something about or spend a little time, like any reasonable person would, first trying to find out a modicum about the experiment he is about to embark upon. But maybe being The Fool (like in the Tarot deck) embarking on an unknown journey is his schtick.


----------



## hlcteacher (Jul 16, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> The author has a new article out. Spoiler alert: He is hard to impress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok, i read this - if i knew this person, i would tell him to keep his negative attitude at home where evidently everything is wonderful and down to his "standards"


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 16, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Lou Malnati’s doesn’t have the atmosphere of the original Uno and Geno’s East - I agree it feels like a standard chain restaurant.


Maybe it's bad now but I always preferred (fresh) Lou Malnati's over the others. Gino's East was my least favorite and had to close up down here.



me_little_me said:


> Like champagne which can only be made in the Champagne district of France (everything else is "sparkling wine")...


For some reason Californian vineyards can apparently call it Champagne too.



Oreius said:


> It seems to me the “reporter” didn’t partake in all the perks available when riding in a Sleeper. He didn’t check out ClubAcela before boarding. As a sleeper passenger that’s one of the perks you get. Also, they will actually board you from the lounge and take you to your assigned car.


With airport lounges I'm invited to visit with an entry coupon whereas Amtrak just assumes I know where lounges are located and who has access. Having seen lounge dragons berate and belittle passengers over minor misunderstandings I would never presume to have access unless specifically told so.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 16, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe it's bad now but I always preferred (fresh) Lou Malnati's over the others. Gino's East was my least favorite and had to close up down here.



I was talking about the atmosphere specifically. Lou Malnatis pizza is quite good (the standard sizes). But Geno’s East (the Chicago location with all the graffiti on the walls) is easily one of my favorites as well. 

Geno’s East, Uno, and Due have so much history - you feel it. I think that’s what he was looking for and that is very much lacking at the Lou Malnatis locations I’ve been to.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 16, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> For some reason Californian vineyards can apparently call it Champagne too.


Thanks to a 100 year old loophole.









The 100-Year-Old Loophole That Makes California Champagne Legal


The only legal Champagne comes from the Champagne region of France, unless it comes from California. Discover the historical loophole that allows this.




vinepair.com


----------



## Dakota 400 (Jul 16, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> This line was especially cringe-worthy:
> _When I've ridden coach on past Amtrak trains, the conductors only checked my tickets and made sure everyone was following the rules. In the sleeper car, I was shocked to learn the conductors did so much more. They brought me food, drinks, and even offered turn-down service._



Calling the SCA a "conductor" may be due to a lack of proof reading of what he wrote. Is there any one of us who has not been guilty of that at times?


----------



## jis (Jul 16, 2021)

I doubt that many normal mortals who are not railfans know the difference between a Conductor and na SCA and an LSA off the bat. They might pick up on it after spending some time on the train.


----------



## Qapla (Jul 16, 2021)

I can't speak to all of his reviews because I did not read them all*

However, it was obvious from the few I did look at that he went into the experience predisposed not to like it ... then he emphasized all the things he found that fit with his predisposed negative view ... in the end, even though he found a few things that were "nice", he went with his predisposed position and did NOT like them.

I could do the same thing if I were to review flying, eating seafood or some of the other things I do not really care for. Most of the time, if you go into something convinced you won't like it ... most of the time you won't.



* I guess you could say I am predisposed not to like his reviews so I didn't bother to read any more - I mean, since I didn't like the ones I did read, like him, it only follows I would not like the rest even if I did find something positive in some of them.


----------



## jis (Jul 16, 2021)

Just doing a confirmation bias article is a low energy way to get some often poor quality journalistic mileage as practiced by many writers. Of course the polemicists make it an art form in and of itself, but I did not see this guy rise to that level.


----------



## me_little_me (Jul 16, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe it's bad now but I always preferred (fresh) Lou Malnati's over the others. Gino's East was my least favorite and had to close up down here.
> For some reason Californian vineyards can apparently call it Champagne too.


And here's why there is a loophole:
California Champagne loophole


----------



## Larry H. (Jul 18, 2021)

Sidney said:


> A $1700 bedroom between NY and Chicago is insane. Sadly,if one person is willing to pay that price,nothing will change. On top of that,you are getting flex food. Price gouging. No way in hell should Amtrak even THINK of charging that.I know,supply and demand,but this goes WAY beyond that.


They should return to the days when railroads printed the cost for the trip and the fares stayed the same, no high or low fares for the same trip, just one fare. And it should be a reasonable cost. As some have said asking 1,700 dollars one way for a overnight trip, and without any real decent lounges or dining is totally out of sink with the kind of trip it is. I never made much money but when rail was popular it was easy to afford a step up to a room on the train, now its far higher and not reasonable by any stretch. One problem with the sleeper fares is that at the start of Amtrak the room charge was based on one person. Somewhere along the way they decided that if the room could hold two people then the one person who booked the room should pay double for it. That increased the sleeper fares which Have never slowed down.


----------



## daybeers (Jul 18, 2021)

It's not updated on the original Yahoo link posted, but it's originally from Insider anyway: looks like someone got to the author and they rewrote the article in a much more positive tone: I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train for the first time. Here are 14 things that surprised me about the long-haul journey.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 19, 2021)

anumberone said:


> I also was wondering about him traipsing the length of the train while boarding. Impatient or too Important.?



He said he walked the length of the train to get to his car. I assumed he walked on the platform like everyone else?


----------



## Asher (Jul 19, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> He said he walked the length of the train to get to his car. I assumed he walked on the platform like everyone else?


I don't know, he said he had to maneuver his suitcase down several narrow Hall ways.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 19, 2021)

anumberone said:


> I don't know, he said he had to maneuver his suitcase down several narrow Hall ways.



Yes, the narrow hallways in the Viewliner car.


----------



## Qapla (Jul 19, 2021)

When I read that part I got the impression he had to navigate "narrow hallways" in multiple cars, not just the one he was riding in.


----------



## Asher (Jul 19, 2021)




----------



## 20th Century Rider (Jul 19, 2021)

Certainly there was lots wrong with his report... from both sides. The LS does serve those flex meals earlier for NYP originating pax... but I don't understand why he was served at 5pm [early!] and don't know if he had requested that particular meal type. He is accurate when condemning the food... which is in big contrast to Moynihan Hall FC offerings. And apparently his fare bucket was at the high end. As for the attendant... it is unusual for attendant not to stop by and advise boarding passengers RE meals, coffee service... etc. 

It doesn't surprise me that post pandemic service levels have diminished... but could the travel writer been more proactive by introducing himself to the attendant?

With a little planning and proper anticipatory set... he could have had a much better experience.

And yes, he overlooked the best part of rail travel... looking out that window.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 19, 2021)

Qapla said:


> When I read that part I got the impression he had to navigate "narrow hallways" in multiple cars, not just the one he was riding in.


That is not the impression I got. But I can’t say for sure. 



20th Century Rider said:


> but could the travel writer been more proactive by introducing himself to the attendant?



Passengers paying $500 for a roomette should not be expected to be proactive in introducing themselves to the attendant.

I don’t know why he would have said 5:00 seems early to be served dinner if he had been given a choice when to be served dinner.


----------



## Qapla (Jul 19, 2021)

I do not consider 5 PM "early" for eating supper/diner ... but then, I have heard that 7 PM is considered "normal" in NYC and that would be viewed as late where I live.


----------



## Bostonjetset (Jul 19, 2021)

Qapla said:


> I do not consider 5 PM "early" for eating supper/diner ... but then, I have heard that 7 PM is considered "normal" in NYC and that would be viewed as late where I live.


5pm is early for most people I know. A “typical” white collar workday is 9-5 so…
We usually eat between 6.30-7. Honestly I don’t know anyone under 80 who eats at 5.


----------



## Dakota 400 (Jul 19, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> And yes, he overlooked the best part of rail travel... looking out that window



Netflex is more important to certain people. I do agree with you, however, very much!


----------



## flitcraft (Jul 19, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> Netflex is more important to certain people.


I think the next war will be fought by hacking Netflix. When that goes out, we'll surrender quickly!


----------



## Brian Battuello (Jul 19, 2021)

Bostonjetset said:


> Honestly I don’t know anyone under 80 who eats at 5.



My cat keeps trying to convince me that 4pm is dinner time.


----------



## Qapla (Jul 19, 2021)

Bostonjetset said:


> 5pm is early for most people I know.



I see you are in the Boston area ... I am not in a large metropolitan area. We are a bit more rural. Around here 5:30-6:30 is a fairly common mealtime - so, 5 as a mealtime is not generally considered "early". I guess it all depends on your home location ... the workday here for many starts 7-8 AM - 9 AM would be thought of as a late start.

There are many here under 80 who eat earlier than 6:30-7


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jul 19, 2021)

Qapla said:


> I do not consider 5 PM "early" for eating supper/diner ... but then, I have heard that 7 PM is considered "normal" in NYC and that would be viewed as late where I live.



Typically, Sleeping car passengers are offered a choice with 5 pm being the earliest and 7:30 or 8:00 Pm being the latest.


----------



## Bostonjetset (Jul 19, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> My cat keeps trying to convince me that 4pm is dinner time.


Oh if cats ruled the world


----------



## Bostonjetset (Jul 19, 2021)

Qapla said:


> I see you are in the Boston area ... I am not in a large metropolitan area. We are a bit more rural. Around here 5:30-6:30 is a fairly common mealtime - so, 5 as a mealtime is not generally considered "early". I guess it all depends on your home location ... the workday here for many starts 7-8 AM - 9 AM would be thought of as a late start.
> 
> There are many here under 80 who eat earlier than 6:30-7


Fair enough. Farmers under 80 would likely eat early and that is understandable due to their line of work. Still, you said 5.30-6.30 is common. In that instance 5 would still be earlier than is common lol.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Jul 19, 2021)

Bostonjetset said:


> Oh if cats ruled the world



They don't?


----------



## jis (Jul 20, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> They don't?


They are certainly good at training humans as the providing pets.  They are quire brilliant actually!


----------



## me_little_me (Jul 20, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> They don't?


No, just part of it - Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, Belarus and a few other places.


----------



## jebr (Jul 20, 2021)

ScottR said:


> Harummph. And i I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but I would do that in a heartbeat. And I know the LSL is…well…not a great train.
> 
> By the same token I can wake up at the buttcrack of dawn, pay some bleary eyed Uber or cabby to take me to the airport….get stuck in morning traffic stressing if we are going to make it in time even though I left at 4.30 am, and then have to stand in an hour security line, wondering if I am going to make it though that, And invariably I always seem to need some extra screening…so there is that. And the Security line itself…. iPad in and out? Shoes and belts on or off?
> 
> ...



To be fair, I have a few very unpleasant train journeys as well. I've repeated it a few times, but there was one trip where the A/C didn't work well (so our room was toasty warm,) we were delayed six hours, our connection was missed by two minutes in part because the SCA decided every. single. bag. needed to be on the platform before we could leave, and our only options for our connecting journey were to be stuck in Chicago until the next day's train or take a bus that arrived back home around 2 AM. 

Even today, thinking about it three years later, I'm _still_ skittish about booking a trip with a connection (and part of me wonders if I should attempt an overnight western train journey again, particularly since I've had a few other bad experiences with Superliner sleepers.) Should we determine our travel options based on the worst-case scenario, regardless of how infrequently it happens? And, if we base it on worst-case scenarios (or at least bad-case scenarios) does the train still win in those instances? At least with the plane example that you gave, the trip only lasted a day with no overnight, which hopefully meant a comfortable bed with working air conditioning.


----------



## flitcraft (Jul 20, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> They don't?


I saw a T-shirt once that read, "Dogs have owners. Cats have staff."


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 21, 2021)

I live in a rural area, and I would be upset if I was served dinner at 5:00 PM. Considering that the Lake Shore Limited departs from Manhattan, nobody should be forced to eat dinner at 5:00 PM.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jul 21, 2021)

Well, we all have different internal time clocks. At home, breakfast for me is at 6:30, lunch (main meal) at 11:30, and supper at 5:00. My most productive time of the day is from 7:00 to about 1:00, after which I am pretty useless.

So a 5:00 dinner time is perfect for me—it’s a treat, not something being forced on me.

My problem on the train is in the morning. At home, I have my first cup of coffee at 5:00 a.m., so it’s difficult being forced to wait til 6:00 or later.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 21, 2021)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Well, we all have different internal time clocks.


I appreciate that, which is why Amtrak should offer a choice.

That said, the overwhelming majority of people who live in a large urban area have their dinner later than 5:00 PM.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jul 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I appreciate that, which is why Amtrak should offer a choice.



I agree completely. I missed the part about not being given a choice of times. For example, if I wanted my meal at 5:00 and was told I’d get a bag with dinner thrown at me at, say, 8:45, I’d be annoyed, too!


----------



## jis (Jul 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I appreciate that, which is why Amtrak should offer a choice.
> 
> That said, the overwhelming majority of people who live in a large urban area have their dinner later than 5:00 PM.


Officially Amtrak does offers a choice ranging from 5pm to roughly 9pm. However, as is true with Amtrak all around, what a specific Amtrak OBS person will do appears to be a matter between him/her and his/her maker with sometimes a very tenuous link to Amtrak's official policy. Lack of consistency is one of major shortcomings of Amtrak services.


----------



## me_little_me (Jul 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I live in a rural area, and I would be upset if I was served dinner at 5:00 PM. Considering that the Lake Shore Limited departs from Manhattan, nobody should be forced to eat dinner at 5:00 PM.


Horrors! Good thing they serve whine with the evening meal.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 21, 2021)

I don’t know if anyone else noticed but he published a follow up amended article about the trip and some of the negative points were toned down a bit. I wonder if his publisher asked him to tone it down a bit. This is the second version;









I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train for the first time. Here are 14 things that surprised me about the long-haul journey.


An Insider reporter was surprised to find that he could book a private room with a small bathroom on an overnight Amtrak train.




www.insider.com


----------



## daybeers (Jul 21, 2021)

lordsigma said:


> I don’t know if anyone else noticed but he published a follow up amended article about the trip and some of the negative points were toned down a bit. I wonder if his publisher asked him to tone it down a bit. This is the second version;
> 
> 
> 
> ...





daybeers said:


> It's not updated on the original Yahoo link posted, but it's originally from Insider anyway: looks like someone got to the author and they rewrote the article in a much more positive tone: I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train for the first time. Here are 14 things that surprised me about the long-haul journey.


I noticed on Sunday. The difference is hilarious.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 21, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> Horrors! Good thing they serve whine with the evening meal.


You honestly believe that it’s a good idea for Amtrak employees to force passengers to take their dinner at 5:00 pm?

Interesting take.


----------



## jis (Jul 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> You honestly believe that it’s a good idea for Amtrak employees to force passengers to take their dinner at 5:00 pm?
> 
> Interesting take.


I think he just has a bit off the beaten path sense of humor


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## Qapla (Jul 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> You honestly believe that it’s a good idea for Amtrak employees to force passengers to take their dinner at 5:00 pm?



Since he said, "For dinner, I ordered pasta with chicken and veggies, a small salad, and a roll." - my guess would be he also "ordered" the 5 PM meal without realizing it.

Also, though this rendition of his trip is a bit less negative, his description of the bed as, "a bed could be pulled down from the ceiling. ... I chose to sleep in the bed suspended by straps." makes it sound like it is a sling or hammock instead of a "bed"

Wonder how many of his other negative reviews he had gone back and changed ...


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## danasgoodstuff (Jul 21, 2021)

Clever marketing, get 2 for 1 writing positive and negative versions of the same review. Maybe not what he was doing, but I take it about as seriously (not) as if he was.


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## me_little_me (Jul 22, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> You honestly believe that it’s a good idea for Amtrak employees to force passengers to take their dinner at 5:00 pm?
> 
> Interesting take.


Considering the garbage flex food they "force" the passengers to eat, it is a minor, minor issue. We normally eat at 6:30-7PM but I've eaten dinner at times between 4:30PM and 9PM while traveling using planes and trains. And remember, your 5PM may not be the train's 5PM so flexibility in eating is not all that difficult to endure, given that the food is not difficult to endure.


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## Exvalley (Jul 22, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> Considering the garbage flex food they "force" the passengers to eat, it is a minor, minor issue.


Interesting take.

In my opinion, companies that want to grow need to emphasize quality customer service and not force choices down the throat of customers. I imagine that many people would object to being forced to eat dinner at 5:00 pm, but perhaps I am wrong.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 22, 2021)

Well, emphasizing customer service is not something Amtrak has done, except for lip service. If they ever intend to get serious about it, the first step would be to get some supervision on the trains. And develop some metrics for it and manage to those metrics.


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## Exvalley (Jul 22, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Well, emphasizing customer service is not something Amtrak has done, except for lip service.


Very true. Amtrak should hire someone from one of the Disney parks whose job is to focus solely on improving customer service within the company.


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## me_little_me (Jul 22, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Very true. Amtrak should hire someone from one of the Disney parks whose job is to focus solely on improving customer service within the company.


To replace all the Amtrak executives? Great thought!


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## joelkfla (Jul 23, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Very true. Amtrak should hire someone from one of the Disney parks whose job is to focus solely on improving customer service within the company.


Except Disney doesn't focus on guest experience anymore; they focus on cutting costs.


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## Exvalley (Jul 23, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Except Disney doesn't focus on guest experience anymore; they focus on cutting costs.


And increasing prices, sadly.


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## me_little_me (Jul 23, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Except Disney doesn't focus on guest experience anymore; they focus on cutting costs.


Then Amtrak should be able to find a former one pretty easily and at a reasonable salary. Especially since these days, those jobs are few and far between and there are probably a lot of laid off people who used to do a bang-up job at it in the days when guest experience, customer satisfaction and prompt service existed.


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## 20th Century Rider (Jul 23, 2021)

The point is being given a choice of when you want to eat within the hours service provided for each meal.


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## 20th Century Rider (Jul 23, 2021)

Good news for those of us who dislike the flex meals... a version of the new western menus may be coming to Eastern trains, according to Trains Magazine June 15, 2021 article. Amtrak does understand the underwhelming disdain for those 'puddle on a plate' casserole style meals... and will be starting to made changes late this year and early next year. According to the article, it will be a smaller menu than in the west... but the quality will be much better. So hang in there and enjoy the ride.









Amtrak plans to offer dining-car service to coach passengers, return traditional meals to eastern trains - Trains


CHICAGO — Amtrak plans to again offer dining car meals to coach passengers, and to again offer meals prepared onboard on its eastern overnight trains, as part of coming enhancements to its long-distance operations. Dates and details for the roll-out of those changes are still to come, says...




www.trains.com


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## jis (Jul 23, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> Good news for those of us who dislike the flex meals... a version of the new western menus may be coming to Eastern trains, according to Trains Magazine June 15, 2021 article. Amtrak does understand the underwhelming disdain for those 'puddle on a plate' casserole style meals... and will be starting to made changes late this year and early next year. According to the article, it will be a smaller menu than in the west... but the quality will be much better. So hang in there and enjoy the ride.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hope springs eternal


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## Manny T (Jul 23, 2021)

The article is about the_ author's _impressions. He was served dinner at 5 PM -- this is what he said about it: "The attendant delivered my dinner at 5 p.m., earlier than I expected. When I asked to have it later, the attendant said that she would bring it anyway and that I could just hold on to it."

So it looks like there was an exchange -- he wanted it later, she said "I'm bringing it at 5 PM and you can hold it until later." If these facts are correct, it's *not* a question of "is 5 pm early or late for dinner?" It's a question of, is this good or acceptable service? No and no. Obviously if he wants to eat at 7:00 the dinner will be cold. His dinner time is his choice, and flex dining was supposed to allow for different times for different folks. He was completely in the right here.

I lived in New York City for decades. Dinner time is 8 P.M. (well, in Manhattan). People work late, go to the gym, go home and change, etc. and then go out to dinner at 8 PM or later. Of course, some people eat earlier. They are known as "early birds" and there are often specials for them.

America today is primarily urban. Hence if we want to establish a generalized "dinner time in America," we wouldn't look to rural areas or the "many people" who eat at 5 PM. A quick google search of "What is US dinner time" comes up with this: "Typically people eat dinner *between 6:00 PM and 7:30 PM*. Dinner time fifty years ago people ate between 5:00 PM and 6:30PM but now due to work and commuting schedules dinner time for many of us has shifted to eating later." (2017) Another entry computes America's "exact" dinner "time" to 6:22 pm.


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## Dan O (Jul 23, 2021)

I read his piece on camping.








I stayed at a campground for the first time in a camper van during the off-season, and I didn't think it was worth the price


An Insider reporter stayed at a campground just outside of Philadelphia in January and found it largely empty.




www.insider.com





Not quite sure why anyone would want to camp in the northeast off season at a KOA. I go camping some but KOAs are known to be expensive although they do offer amenities like playgrounds and pools in season. Going camping off season is a bit like going to a sports stadium offseason--not a lot of folks around and not much going on. Camping in season at national and state parks can be very enjoyable with much to do and see. Plus, there would have been other people for him to see and talk with if he so desired. To me, this article on camping reads like "I rented an RV to see how much fun it can be and went to Death Valley in July."


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## John Santos (Jul 23, 2021)

Dan O said:


> I read his piece on camping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Pulling up to the campground, I instantly knew all my preconceived notions were about to be proved wrong." I think this happens to this guy *A LOT*. He didn't google the location of the campground. He didn't check the rates beforehand. It doesn't sound like he talked to ANYONE with previous experience. He was surprised at how few campgrounds in the northeast are open in JANUARY. Someone should have directed him to a state park or a National Forest campground. Much more primitive, but much more beautiful and unplowed under several feet of snow... (I don't know of any national Parks with camping closer to NYC than the Cape Cod National Seashore or Acadia, both of which are definitely closed, except perhaps to primitive backcountry camping, in the winter. Backcountry camping is where you carry all your gear for several miles into the woods to reach your campsite. You need a permit and have to pay fees and there is no WiFi.)

BTW, Amtrak is an excellent way to go camping in distant areas. No problem (except stove fuel which you have to buy at your destination) packing everything you could need in a large duffel bag and bringing it on a train. It is technically possible to do this on a plane, but you really have to limit your equipment. A piece of cake on Amtrak. You almost certainly will need to rent a car at your destination. Maybe not for Glacier...


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## Qapla (Jul 23, 2021)

Manny T said:


> His dinner time is his choice, and flex dining was supposed to allow for different times for different folks. He was completely in the right here.



Not so sure he was "completely in the right here" since some of the statements in his report do not match. In one place he indicates the diner just showed up while in another he says he ordered the food. When ordering your food isn't the time you want to eat is usually part of that ordering process. So, if the "default" time is 5 PM and he did, in fact, order the diner and didn't bother to change the default time (or didn't notice he was to select a time) that is not the fault of the person who brought the food at the "ordered time"

Could it have been handled better - I'm sure it could have ... but, since non of us where there and his report is so inconsistent, we will never know.


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## Sidney (Jul 23, 2021)

jis said:


> Hope springs eternal


I will be using my $299 railpass next month and in September. Guess it will be too early for Coach passengers to purchase dining car food. A decent sit down breakfast would be most welcome.I am augmenting my mostly railpass journey with two roomettes on the Crescent and Empire Builder. Flexible,then traditional. Can't wait for real food on the latter!

Another point. Announcements don't begin until 7AM on board trains. The diners open at 6:30. That half hour is pretty empty. It would be nice to let coach pax purchase breakfast in the dining car that early half hour period.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Aug 11, 2021)

So this guy just had his third article published today about the same trip. Very weird.









I went on a 19-hour Amtrak train ride with a carry-on suitcase and a backpack. Here are 8 things I wish I'd packed and 4 items I'm glad I took.


An Insider reporter shared his biggest packing regrets, from slippers to earplugs, after taking a train from New York to Chicago.




www.yahoo.com


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 12, 2021)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> So this guy just had his third article published today about the same trip. Very weird.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh meee! Oh my! According to the big Amtrak manual in the sky, this millennial should've had a delightful time! Food was perfectly prepared for millennial tastes but the bedding was apparently not. BTW this guy brought along books because looking out the window was apparently boring? 

I think our millennial friend should fly Spirit Airlines next time!


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## Danib62 (Aug 12, 2021)

A lot of hay is being made over his dinner being delivered at 5pm... I don't remember ever being given a choice of meal times when flying on a flight where meals are still offered.


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## basketmaker (Aug 12, 2021)

I think he may be of "the age of entitlement" played a major role in the review!


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 14, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> BTW this guy brought along books because looking out the window was apparently boring?



No. Many people enjoy reading books while traveling. Hence bookstores in major train stations and airports.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 14, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> No. Many people enjoy reading books while traveling. Hence bookstores in major train stations and airports.


Like many enthusiasts... I bring along maps from the Auto Club [been a member for half a century] and like to follow along on the Google maps app when there is a signal --- am a Verizon user. I've noticed that many bloggers use this material and incorporate into their blogs... which I watch prior to a trip.

Ok to say that everyone has their own personal way of enjoying Amtrak travel.


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## joelkfla (Aug 14, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> Like many enthusiasts... I bring along maps from the Auto Club [been a member for half a century] and like to follow along on the Google maps app when there is a signal --- am a Verizon user. I've noticed that many bloggers use this material and incorporate into their blogs... which I watch prior to a trip.
> 
> Ok to say that everyone has their own personal way of enjoying Amtrak travel.


Just a reminder that you _can _easily download Google Maps along your route onto your Android phone, and follow along even when there isn't a signal.


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## BoulderCO (Aug 14, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Just a reminder that you _can _easily download Google Maps along your route onto your Android phone, and follow along even when there isn't a signal.



This works well on iPhone also.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 14, 2021)

BoulderCO said:


> This works well on iPhone also.



I thought we weren’t allowed to look at our phones, or a laptop, or read a book. If we aren’t looking out the window at all times we are to be immediately ejected from the SSL!!!!


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## KeepItGoing (Aug 14, 2021)

I noticed that in his biggest packing regrets, he said that he should have brought a towel, because they aren't provided for a shower. ????? Was this a misunderstanding on his part, or is providing towels optional for Amtrak, or was this just a mistake on Amtrak's part?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 14, 2021)

Mistake. Amtrak has always provided towels. How you get them varies. Sometimes clean towels are on the seat in the shower room, sometimes on the common luggage rack in Superliners. In a few cases, the attendant has taken charge of them and you have to ask for one.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 14, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Mistake. Amtrak has always provided towels. How you get them varies. Sometimes clean towels are on the seat in the shower room, sometimes on the common luggage rack in Superliners. In a few cases, the attendant has taken charge of them and you have to ask for one.



It’s entirely possible that towels were not available for this passenger.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 14, 2021)

Redacted. Duplicate post


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## zephyr17 (Aug 14, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It’s entirely possible that towels were not available for this passenger.


That would indicate a rotten apple SCA. Regardless of his attitude, the writer was entitled to a towel.


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## drdumont (Aug 15, 2021)

Qapla said:


> <SNIP>
> Also, though this rendition of his trip is a bit less negative, his description of the bed as, "a bed could be pulled down from the ceiling. ... I chose to sleep in the bed suspended by straps." makes it sound like it is a sling or hammock instead of a "bed"
> 
> Wonder how many of his other negative reviews he had gone back and changed ...



Just crappy writing. If you weren't aware of the physical construction of the upper bunk, you would at first believe it was more like a hammock. One presumes he referred to the straps which keep one from rolling out of bed.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Aug 21, 2021)

His fourth article about his trip published yesterday.  








I took a 19-hour overnight Amtrak train. Here are 10 reasons traveling by train is better than flying.


An Insider reporter who traveled from New York to Chicago by train loved that he didn't have to wait in a security line and that he got more legroom.




www.google.com


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 21, 2021)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> His fourth article about his trip published yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps this travel writer should 'train' his mind to look at the positives... about train travel.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 21, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Very true. Amtrak should hire someone from one of the Disney parks whose job is to focus solely on improving customer service within the company.


From what I've read about the decreasing level of customer service at Disney properties, Disney needs people to focus on customer service more than Amtrak does.

Lousy customer service is a fact of life all over America, not just Amtrak. Just the other day, I was at the carryout counter at a major regional supermarket chain, looking for lunch. Bot only did I have to wait several minutes to catch someone's attention, but the item I wanted was out of stock, and the attendant, though not actually surly, didn't seem to care very much about making a sale. I ened up buying a premade sandwich from the refrigerator case, which was actually mot too bad. Anyway, this place must have been hiring the laid-off Amtrak OBS staff that hadn't already been hired by the clinical lab I went to a couple of days earlier.


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## neroden (Aug 21, 2021)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> His fourth article about his trip published yesterday.



I'm beginning to sense that this is a sort of moneymaking tactic where the freelancer attempts to leverage one trip into as many articles as possible. Each article may have a different "tone", and who knows what he really thought; he's trying to sell as many articles as possible. I mean, I can't argue with his entrepeneurial spirit.


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## Bembidion (Aug 22, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> I think he may be of "the age of entitlement" played a major role in the review!



I only see one of his complaints being valid, other than that, he seems exceptionally self-centered. His article reminds me of something someone quoted from a radio program. "Copernicus called, and you are not at the center of your universe."


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## Michigan Mom (Aug 23, 2021)

Well, he did list the positives, at least. His writing style is not really engaging, though, it's not content I would seek out, even for free.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 23, 2021)

Scott Palmer said:


> I only see one of his complaints being valid, other than that, he seems exceptionally self-centered. His article reminds me of something someone quoted from a radio program. "Copernicus called, and you are not at the center of your universe."


Needs a more open mind when it comes to the benefits of rail travel... especially to the environment. I do agree with his distain for flex dining... and do hope it will be replaced with something more appetizing and palatable.


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## neroden (Aug 24, 2021)

We now have confirmation that he's running the "sell the same article with a different spin to a dozen outlets" thing. Positive spin in some versions, negative spin in others. Which, given the low pay for online article writers, is understandable, but, well, can't take the article too seriously.


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## dlagrua (Aug 26, 2021)

I read the article and the writer touches on the negative and some positive points about train travel. Amtrak train travel is not for everyone but for a person that is not in a hurry and one that appreciates a more laid back comfortable traveling experience. If there is a fault, it has to be the price of LD travel. It is usually higher than air travel by a huge margin.


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## Qapla (Aug 26, 2021)

It's not that there are not some problems with Amtrak - it's that this author has published this article about this same trip in several places ... some were positive while others were negative. He kept slanting the article in a different way each time he published it.


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## Tlcooper93 (Aug 26, 2021)

dlagrua said:


> I read the article and the writer touches on the negative and some positive points about train travel. Amtrak train travel is not for everyone but for a person that is not in a hurry and one that appreciates a more laid back comfortable traveling experience. If there is a fault, it has to be the price of LD travel. It is usually higher than air travel by a huge margin.



There seems to be a trend among your posts. You really don’t like the high price of sleepers.

That said, you are right. If a roomette on Amtrak costs as much as two nights on the Royal Scotsman, that’s problematic. Then again, I’ve never paid more than $700 for a roomette on any train, CZ (end to end) included.

furthermore, I think it’s clear that this author merely writes articles for high volume and $$ and not with journalistic integrity.


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