# Advice Requested For July 2011 Trip



## frugalist (Aug 1, 2010)

My wife and I have picked the cruise we want to take next summer. We’ve pretty much settled on the routing we’d like to take on our train trips to and from our cruise terminal, but I need a little advice on timing my AGR bookings and a couple of other issues.

The background details are:

1) We will be sailing into and out of Vancouver, BC in July 2011.

2) We will be booking 4 separate AGR reward trips in bedrooms to get to/from VAC from home.

Trip 1 is a 2-zone award from SBG to DEN on the SM to NYP, the LSL to CHI and the CZ to DEN. 30,000 AGR points.

Trip 2 is a 1-zone award from DEN to either SEA or VAC on the same CZ train as we’re on in Trip 1 from DEN to EMY, then the CS from EMY to SEA. If we wanted to continue to VAC on this reward trip we would have to take a bus getting into VAC after midnight. 20,000 AGR points.

We’d like to book two separate award trips this way to force the routing we prefer.

*Question 1:* Would AGR let us lay over in SEA overnight on our dime and continue to VAC on the Cascades train the following morning as a continuation of Trip 2. My guess is the answer is NO. If that’s the case, we’d still prefer to stay overnight in SEA, then continue on to VAC on the Cascades early the next morning (1,000 AGR points each).

Trip 3 starts with an overnight in Vancouver on our dime, then a 1-zone award from VAC to WPT. We would definitely prefer to take the early morning Cascade train from VAC to either SEA or PDX, then connect to the EB from either SEA or PDX to WPT. 20,000 AGR points.

*Question 2:* Unfortunately, Arrow seems to insist we take a bus from VAC to SEA, then connect there to the EB. If we took the early morning Cascades, the layover in SEA is about 5 hours and the layover in PDX is almost 2 hours. What are the chances AGR would let us book the Cascades instead of the bus for that part of the trip?

*Question 3:* Which part of the EB is better for scenery in July? The part leaving from SEA, or the part leaving from PDX?

Trip 4 is a 2-zone award from WPT to SBG on the same EB train as we’re on in Trip 3, connecting in CHI to the CL to WAS then connecting to the SM for the final leg back to SBG.

*Question 4:* Which of these 4 trips is *least* likely to sell out at least one of the trains bedrooms the fastest? I ask this because right now we have enough points to book any 3 of these trips. We won’t have enough for the other one until either late August or September 2010.

I’ve heard that the EB sells out of sleepers very quickly for summer runs. So, we’ll probably book Trip 3 as soon as it opens up. Probably the same thought process applies with Trips 1 and 2, right? That leaves our final leg, Trip 4, as the piece we'll leave hanging unbooked until our last couple thousand points post. Does that make sense?

All thoughts and comments on this routing are appreciated.


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Would AGR let us lay over in SEA overnight on our dime and continue to VAC on the Cascades train the following morning as a continuation of Trip 2. My guess is the answer is NO. If that's the case, we'd still prefer to stay overnight in SEA, then continue on to VAC on the Cascades early the next morning (1,000 AGR points each).


I doubt that you can take the SM to NYP and then the LSL to CHI. The connection point is usually WAS and the CL!




And as you yourself answered *NO*!



> Unfortunately, Arrow seems to insist we take a bus from VAC to SEA, then connect there to the EB. If we took the early morning Cascades, the layover in SEA is about 5 hours and the layover in PDX is almost 2 hours. What are the chances AGR would let us book the Cascades instead of the bus for that part of the trip?


The train to PDX is also 1,000 points - if it is still operating!







> Which part of the EB is better for scenery in July? The part leaving from SEA, or the part leaving from PDX?


In July, more if the Columbia River Gorge run will be in daylight!



And you will have the railfan's window in your car all the way from PDX to at least MSP! Also, there is a Metropolitan Lounge in PDX - none in SEA!



> Trip 4 is a 2-zone award from WPT to SBG on the same EB train as we're on in Trip 3, connecting in CHI to the CL to WAS then connecting to the SM for the final leg back to SBG.
> Which of these 4 trips is *least* likely to sell out at least one of the trains bedrooms the fastest? I ask this because right now we have enough points to book any 3 of these trips. We won't have enough for the other one until either late August or September 2010.


You should try to get the *ENTIRE* EB run as soon as you can!


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## Trogdor (Aug 2, 2010)

Right now, nobody can book the morning train from VAC/evening train to VAC beyond September 30, because Amtrak, the State of Washington, and the Canadian Border Services Agency have not yet reached an agreement to continue staffing the station for train 516's arrival (the CBSA wants someone other than themselves to pay a bunch of money per train for them to staff the station).

As for which segment is least likely to sell out of bedrooms, it's hard to say. The segment most likely to sell out would be either PDX-CHI on train 28, or the Florida trains, just because of the limited number available.


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> frugalist said:
> 
> 
> > Would AGR let us lay over in SEA overnight on our dime and continue to VAC on the Cascades train the following morning as a continuation of Trip 2. My guess is the answer is NO. If that's the case, we'd still prefer to stay overnight in SEA, then continue on to VAC on the Cascades early the next morning (1,000 AGR points each).
> ...


I just tried a test booking on Arrow for SBG - DEN. The second choice was the connection in NYP for the LSL. Hopefully, that will be a viable option when we go to make our actual booking.



> Unfortunately, Arrow seems to insist we take a bus from VAC to SEA, then connect there to the EB. If we took the early morning Cascades, the layover in SEA is about 5 hours and the layover in PDX is almost 2 hours. What are the chances AGR would let us book the Cascades instead of the bus for that part of the trip?
> 
> 
> > The train to PDX is also 1,000 points - if it is still operating!


Are they talking about canceling that train? Where can I keep up on that?



> Which part of the EB is better for scenery in July? The part leaving from SEA, or the part leaving from PDX?
> 
> 
> > In July, more if the Columbia River Gorge run will be in daylight!
> ...


Good point about the Metropolitan Lounge in PDX. What's the railfan's window? I've seen it mentioned on AU a few times recently.



> Trip 4 is a 2-zone award from WPT to SBG on the same EB train as we're on in Trip 3, connecting in CHI to the CL to WAS then connecting to the SM for the final leg back to SBG.
> Which of these 4 trips is *least* likely to sell out at least one of the trains bedrooms the fastest? I ask this because right now we have enough points to book any 3 of these trips. We won't have enough for the other one until either late August or September 2010.
> 
> 
> ...


Good advice. We'll book the entire eastbound trip as soon as it opens up later this month.

Thanks for all your help and advice. Not just for this thread, but everywhere on AU. I hope you can catch a train soon!


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## Trogdor (Aug 2, 2010)

Why are you splitting trips 3 and 4 in WPT? You would really be better off just booking it as one trip all the way through.


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Are they talking about canceling that train? Where can I keep up on that?


Just keep looking here at AU. If and when it is discontinued (or hopefully continued), we may post something before Amtrak announces it!







> What's the railfan's window? I've seen it mentioned on AU a few times recently.


The "railfan's window" is the window in the door of the very last car of the train! Not many passengers know about it, so it usually is not crowded. It is a great place to take photos of scenery, and of the rails and any other trains on other tracks!





Once, I was in the 2830 car from PDX-CHI and spent a lot of time there. The whole trip, I only saw 2 others there - at different times! (BTW: that door is locked, and there is also a bar across the door!)


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 2, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> The "railfan's window" is the window in the door of the very last car of the train! Not many passengers know about it, so it usually is not crowded. It is a great place to take photos of scenery, and of the rails and any other trains on other tracks!


It's an interesting perspective to be sure but with nowhere to sit it can get a little tiring after a while. If the last car is a sleeper (SL with TE attached, for instance) then you might get some weird looks from the pensioners in the rooms near the door. You have no idea how much I wish we still had those glorious viewing cars from eras past. And if we had some way to sit down outside watching the rails trail off into the distance I'd be in railfan heaven.


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## MrFSS (Aug 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > The "railfan's window" is the window in the door of the very last car of the train! Not many passengers know about it, so it usually is not crowded. It is a great place to take photos of scenery, and of the rails and any other trains on other tracks!
> ...


One of the best "railfan" area I have been on was on The Rocky Mountaineer. The high level cars have a rather large area on the end of the car where you board that allows for you to be outside and up close and personal with the scenery as you pass by. I saw as many as 10-15 people at a time standing there taking pictures.






And, of course, The Canadian has the ultimate inside railfan windows.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 2, 2010)

Makes me want to move to Canada. Really. Do either of those services make money? It's not something that would factor into my decision to ride, but it would be interesting to know if that sort of catering to enthusiasts pays off or not.


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## MrFSS (Aug 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Makes me want to move to Canada. Really. Do either of those services make money? It's not something that would factor into my decision to ride, but it would be interesting to know if that sort of catering to enthusiasts pays off or not.


At the prices The Rocky Mountaineer charges, I have to assume they do make money. Since they are a private operation they wouldn't last long if they didn't. Now, VIA is a different story.


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> Why are you splitting trips 3 and 4 in WPT? You would really be better off just booking it as one trip all the way through.


For preliminary planning purposes, I split them in case I decided that one of those trips was the one I would put off booking until we got our final few thousand AGR points to complete our entire journey. Based on earlier replies, I think we'll book the entire EB as soon as it becomes available later this month, which means we will do exactly as you suggested - book PDX to SBG all as one 50K award.


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> frugalist said:
> 
> 
> > > Unfortunately, Arrow seems to insist we take a bus from VAC to SEA, then connect there to the EB. If we took the early morning Cascades, the layover in SEA is about 5 hours and the layover in PDX is almost 2 hours. What are the chances AGR would let us book the Cascades instead of the bus for that part of the trip?
> ...


Until it's confirmed that #510 will continue to operate, maybe our best bet is to plan on taking the AmBus (continuation of the CS) into VAC (arriving at 12:20am) and take a hotel in Vancouver for the rest of the night. That would have the added benefit of getting us into Vancouver about 16 hours before our ship leaves, giving us more padding in our schedule in the event of delays enroute. We can always fall back on our original plan if #510 is continued.

If #513 is canceled, the only alternative I see for getting to from VAC-PDX for the start of the EB is taking the #8909 AmBus VAC-SEA, connecting to the #509 Cascades to PDX. Since that gets into PDX at 9:00pm, we'd be on our own for a hotel in PDX that night. That's the itinerary Arrow comes up with when I search for VAC-PDX leaving around 11:00am. Would this be considered a valid AGR award on the Cascade for 1,000 points per person? If not, how many points would it cost?


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## PackerBacker (Aug 2, 2010)

You might want to consider renting a car from vac to pdx. Checking kayak showed a rate of about $128 per day. A little expensive, but convenient.


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Would this be considered a valid AGR award on the Cascade for 1,000 points per person? If not, how many points would it cost?


Yes it would be 1K per person!



Personally, I'd rather let someone else drive!


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## Trogdor (Aug 2, 2010)

Train 510's operation is not in question. The trains that are currently subject to change are 513 and 516, which, should an agreement not be reached by September 30, will be cut back to Bellingham, as they were before their extension last year.

As for getting to PDX, if you wanted to leave VAC really early in the morning, you could take the bus that connects to train 11, which gets to Portland in time for train 28.


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> Train 510's operation is not in question. The trains that are currently subject to change are 513 and 516, which, should an agreement not be reached by September 30, will be cut back to Bellingham, as they were before their extension last year.
> 
> As for getting to PDX, if you wanted to leave VAC really early in the morning, you could take the bus that connects to train 11, which gets to Portland in time for train 28.


It's good to know our option to take train 510 won't be affected by this mess.

Our schedule for VAC-PDX is constrained by the fact that our ship is due to arrive back into Vancouver at 7:00am that morning. So, the 5:30am bus is out of the question. That's why I was thinking about taking the 11:30am bus, connecting to the #509 train in SEA to PDX and just getting a hotel room for the night in PDX. Driving a rental car from Vancouver, BC to Portland is a last resort type of option.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 2, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > Train 510's operation is not in question. The trains that are currently subject to change are 513 and 516, which, should an agreement not be reached by September 30, will be cut back to Bellingham, as they were before their extension last year.
> ...


Sounds as though you have it all down pretty good, how bout pickin up a neighbor to tag along on your way out of Fla.?


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> Sounds as though you have it all down pretty good, how bout pickin up a neighbor to tag along on your way out of Fla.?


If you can squeeze into the luggage space above the bathroom, you're welcome to join us.


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> how bout pickin up a neighbor to tag along on your way out of Fla.?


I think he already has a "neighbor"



> My wife and I


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## Trogdor (Aug 2, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Our schedule for VAC-PDX is constrained by the fact that our ship is due to arrive back into Vancouver at 7:00am that morning. So, the 5:30am bus is out of the question. That's why I was thinking about taking the 11:30am bus, connecting to the #509 train in SEA to PDX and just getting a hotel room for the night in PDX. Driving a rental car from Vancouver, BC to Portland is a last resort type of option.



How close to schedule do these cruise ships tend to arrive? (That's a question directed at anyone who may have some experience with this sort of thing.)

I mentioned this in another thread, too, but if you've never spent any time in Vancouver before, then you should really consider spending a day/night there, then returning the next day (giving you more travel options). This also gives you a buffer just in case your cruise ship arrives late and you don't make the 11:30 bus.


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2010)

Every cruise I've been on arrives on time or early!



The tough thing to deal with (time wise) is going thru Customs getting off the ship! (You can't be sure if you'll be first or last off the ship!



)

Remember, the ship that arrives on Saturday morning departs on Saturday evening restocked and with a new load of passengers!

I agree with spending an extra day or 2 in Vancouver either before or after the cruise - or both! Amtrak may offer a guaranteed connection between trains and/or Thruway busses, but there is *NO *guaranteed connection between Amtrak and the cruise ship!


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## frugalist (Aug 2, 2010)

Our experience with cruises mirrors the_traveler's - we've been on about a dozen cruises and they've all arrived at their final destinations either on time or early. The cruise staff will also coordinate disembarkation schedules to allow those passengers with early reservations for their onward travel to be among the first to disembark the ship.

You guys are giving me something to think about regarding spending a full day in Vancouver. I wouldn't mind. But Mrs. Frugalist is already a bit leary about being away from home for almost 3 weeks. I guess I can try to squeeze another day out of her. 

Is the pickup/dropoff spot for the Amtrak bus to/from Vancouver at the Pacific Central Station on Station Street, or is it somewhere else? Just trying to pick a hotel convenient to the Canada Place Pier and the bus stop.


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## Trogdor (Aug 2, 2010)

The Amtrak bus (and all intercity buses serving Vancouver) use Pacific Central Station, which is an intermodal facility.

If you are going to pick a hotel in the area, I'd go with one near Canada Place by far over one near the train station.

When it's time to go, you can catch the SkyTrain and be at Pacific Central Station in less than 10 minutes (and that's including your wait time for the SkyTrain).


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## frugalist (Aug 5, 2010)

It's almost time to actually book the trip. I'll be calling AGR Monday morning Aug. 9 when all my outbound trains should be open for booking. Now I need some advice on specific train consists and location of the best sleeper car.

We'll be booking bedrooms all the way. First train is #98, the Silver Meteor, from SBG to NYP. Since I was just on that train last month, I know we want car 9810, the sleeper nearest the diner (first priority) and farthest from the engine's horn (second priority). And, we want Bedroom B, the one with an adjacent bedroom on only one side of it.

Next comes #49, the LSL from NYP to CHI. This is a Viewliner, right? What's the car number of the sleeper closest to the diner? Are the sleepers currently running on the front end or the rear end of the LSL? And again, we want Bedroom B.

Next, train #5, the CZ from CHI to EMY. This is a Superliner, and I know from all the tips on the forum that we want Bedroom E. What's the car number of the sleeper closest to the diner? Again, are the sleepers running on the front or the rear of the CZ?

Finally, train #14, the CS from EMY to SEA with an AmBus continuing to VAC. As this is another Superliner, we'll want Bedroom E. What is the car number for the sleeper closest to the diner?

Thanks to everyone who has helped me in planning this trip. It's very much appreciated.


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## MrFSS (Aug 5, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> How close to schedule do these cruise ships tend to arrive? (That's a question directed at anyone who may have some experience with this sort of thing.)


My wife and I have been on a number of cruises and I have found that they are usually early on the last day's arrival.

They usually have some padding in their schedules and I have seen ones we have been on arrive at 4:30 - 5:00 AM when the scheduled time said 7:00 AM.

I agree Vancouver is a great place to visit for a few days. One of the most cosmopolitan cities in North America.


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## Trogdor (Aug 5, 2010)

frugalist said:


> It's almost time to actually book the trip. I'll be calling AGR Monday morning Aug. 9 when all my outbound trains should be open for booking. Now I need some advice on specific train consists and location of the best sleeper car.
> 
> We'll be booking bedrooms all the way. First train is #98, the Silver Meteor, from SBG to NYP. Since I was just on that train last month, I know we want car 9810, the sleeper nearest the diner (first priority) and farthest from the engine's horn (second priority). And, we want Bedroom B, the one with an adjacent bedroom on only one side of it.
> 
> Next comes #49, the LSL from NYP to CHI. This is a Viewliner, right? What's the car number of the sleeper closest to the diner? Are the sleepers currently running on the front end or the rear end of the LSL? And again, we want Bedroom B.


4911. Rear.



> Next, train #5, the CZ from CHI to EMY. This is a Superliner, and I know from all the tips on the forum that we want Bedroom E. What's the car number of the sleeper closest to the diner? Again, are the sleepers running on the front or the rear of the CZ?


0531. Usually front, but every once in a while, it goes out backwards.



> Finally, train #14, the CS from EMY to SEA with an AmBus continuing to VAC. As this is another Superliner, we'll want Bedroom E. What is the car number for the sleeper closest to the diner?


1430.


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## printman2000 (Aug 6, 2010)

Word of warning...

Watch out for blackout dates. I planned to use points to ride the Cascades July 1st, 2011 but it is a blackout date.

(Just realized the OP commented on my post on another thread so they already know this info)


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## colobok (Aug 6, 2010)

frugalist said:


> *Question 1:* Would AGR let us lay over in SEA overnight on our dime and continue to VAC on the Cascades train the following morning as a continuation of Trip 2. My guess is the answer is NO. If that’s the case, we’d still prefer to stay overnight in SEA, then continue on to VAC on the Cascades early the next morning (1,000 AGR points each).
> 
> Trip 3 starts with an overnight in Vancouver on our dime, then a 1-zone award from VAC to WPT. We would definitely prefer to take the early morning Cascade train from VAC to either SEA or PDX, then connect to the EB from either SEA or PDX to WPT. 20,000 AGR points.


I was able to get connections from AGR that are not allowed on amtrak.com, so call and try.



frugalist said:


> *Question 3:* Which part of the EB is better for scenery in July? The part leaving from SEA, or the part leaving from PDX?


I would say the scenery from SEA is better. I took both (exactly in July).

While Columbia River on PDX is nice, but it's a short nice segment. From SEA you go right on the beach for like 1 hour, see naval base, the turn to mountains.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 6, 2010)

frugalist said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds as though you have it all down pretty good, how bout pickin up a neighbor to tag along on your way out of Fla.?
> ...



May be a little tight!!!

Thanx for the invite!





http://www.flickr.com/photos/railfreak/4653125569/in/set-72157624167846620/


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## frugalist (Aug 9, 2010)

Our outbound trip is now booked! 

I was lucky and got an AGR rep who really knew her stuff. When I explained how I had to split the journey between our two accounts since neither one of us has 50,000 points, and how I wanted to go the long way, she knew exactly what I wanted to do and how to book it. Two of the four bedrooms on the LSL were already booked, so we had to go with our second choice of room, but other than that, everything went smoothly. Still waiting for the confirmation emails, but the points have already been taken from our AGR accounts, and the 5% rebates added back in.

Now to wait a couple of weeks to book our return trip. I'm depending on all my bonus points posting to my Chase Sapphire card when my statement closes later this month. I need all of them to have enough points in my account to book the entire trip.

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful suggestions.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 9, 2010)

That sounds like a hell of a trip, Enjoy!!!


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