# Greyhound Ending All Bus Routes in Western Canada



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 9, 2018)

Some Extra Passengers for the Canadian??

Greyhound has announced they will end all intercity and transcontinental bus service west of Ontario this October. Only route remaining will be Vancouver-Seattle

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-cancellations-alberta-manitoba-saskatchewan-british-columbia-1.4739459


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## Pere Flyer (Jul 9, 2018)

Are there other intercity bus services that serve Western Canada? If not, that’s a problem, and hopefully another bus company can step in and find a sustainable market like what Jefferson Lines and Peter Pan have done south of the parallel.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 9, 2018)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Some Extra Passengers for the Canadian??
> 
> Greyhound has announced they will end all intercity and transcontinental bus service west of Ontario this October. Only route remaining will be Vancouver-Seattle
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-cancellations-alberta-manitoba-saskatchewan-british-columbia-1.4739459


Wow, how will the folks on the Praries and in the boondocks travel that don't live close to the Canadian Route?


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## Trogdor (Jul 9, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> Wow, how will the folks on the Praries and in the boondocks travel that don't live close to the Canadian Route?


Probably the same way most of them are traveling now.

Greyhound is ending service due to low (and declining) ridership. That means most folks have already found alternate means to travel.


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## railiner (Jul 10, 2018)

It's a sad day in Greyhound Canada history...






After a long period of decline, they are finally throwing in the towel on most of their remaining routes.

Perhaps it would have been better, if FirstGroup, its UK based owner, would have tried to sell the whole company intact? Or maybe not...

As for other carrier's filling the vacuum...maybe, in a few viable portions. Some have tried, and then quit.

Some government agencies have already said they would not grant any subsidies in their jurisdiction.

As for the mentioned Vancouver, BC - Seattle route...that is operated by the US based Greyhound Lines, Inc. And they are abandoning many routes, as well, with each new timetable...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 10, 2018)

Ridership on the routes wasn't all that bad. The Vancouver - Calgary has enough demand that Greyhound is running it 4x daily this summer. Last time I rode from Calgary to Moose Jaw on the TCH, it was packed to the last seat. The Calgary - Edmonton and Prince George - Kamloops are viable, too.

Perhaps Greyhound will keep Vancouver - Calgary as they actually provided decent service on it. Not so much on the other routes.


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## seat38a (Jul 11, 2018)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Ridership on the routes wasn't all that bad. The Vancouver - Calgary has enough demand that Greyhound is running it 4x daily this summer. Last time I rode from Calgary to Moose Jaw on the TCH, it was packed to the last seat. The Calgary - Edmonton and Prince George - Kamloops are viable, too.
> 
> Perhaps Greyhound will keep Vancouver - Calgary as they actually provided decent service on it. Not so much on the other routes.


High ridership does not always equate to profitability.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 12, 2018)

There are already a couple of bus operators interested in picking up some of the route Greyhound is casting off.

One is Maritime Bus that took over from Acadian Lines 6 years ago. The owner says he obtained a less onerous operating license in negotiations with the Provinces that now allows him to adjust schedules without going through all the regulatory hearings etc. They can also now cross-subsidize between their other operations: city transit, school bus, charters and multi-day tours. And that is something the western Provinces are going to have to allow if any bus service is going to survive: a less regulated environment.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-canada-bus-follow-1.4740974

Calgary Edmonton and most of the larger cities in Alberta are already served by another operator besides Greyhound: Red Arrow.

https://www.redarrow.ca/

Calgary Edmonton have always been mentioned as good candidates for high-speed rail but most people today are just out on the Queen Elizabeth II Highway for the 300 kms, 3 hr drive or they are in the air.

As far back as the 1960's when the Edmonton Airport was near the city centre (across from the VIA Station....but now closed) Pacific Western Airlines operated the 'Chieftain Airbus' modeled on the Eastern Shuttle in the US Northeast.....just show up and go.

Today it's not as convenient today to fly as the Edmonton International Airport is farther out of the cityactually on the way to Calgary so when you consider the time you have to be there before your flight you would nearly be in Calgary driving.

PWA's Airbus Timetable from the 1960's:


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## railiner (Jul 12, 2018)

NS VIA Fan said:


> There are already a couple of bus operators interested in picking up some of the route Greyhound is casting off.
> 
> One is Maritime Bus that took over from Acadian Lines 6 years ago. The owner says he obtained a less onerous operating license in negotiations with the Provinces that now allows him to adjust schedules without going through all the regulatory hearings etc. They can also now cross-subsidize between their other operations: city transit, school bus, charters and multi-day tours. And that is something the western Provinces are going to have to allow if any bus service is going to survive: a less regulated environment.


"Wabinski confident

Unlike Greyhound's business model, "each route must be profitable on its own," he said. "You cannot have one route paying for another. That's a bad recipe for success."

Aren't those two statements sort of contradictory, regarding "cross-subsidization"?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 12, 2018)

railiner said:


> "Wabinski confident
> 
> Unlike Greyhound's business model, "each route must be profitable on its own," he said. "You cannot have one route paying for another. That's a bad recipe for success."
> 
> Aren't those two statements sort of contradictory, regarding "cross-subsidization"?


Sounds like Mike Cassidy who operates Maritime Bus might take a different approach; The buses used on the intercity runs here carry the 'Maritime Bus' logo as well as 'Coach Atlantic'.....his charter and tours division. He also operates city transit and school buses.

Locally....we're a University town......the schedule will be adjusted as well as the size of the bus. Sometimes two or more buses will operate on one schedule and extra runs added. But If they know only a small bus will be required when the University is out on break.....they might send one of the smaller buses operated by their airport shuttle division.

When Acadian closed...... the Provinces wanted a bus service maintained and were willing to work with Maritime Bus on a less regulated environment. That Business Model must be working after 6 years if they are interested in expanding into Greyhound's area.

'Coach Atlantic' operating as 'Maritime Bus' at St. Francis Xavier University.....the newly painted buses now carry both logos:


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## railiner (Jul 12, 2018)

Okay, so Maritime 'cross-subsidizes' from it's charter, school, and other operations into its line runs...

Not quite the same thing as 'cross-subsidizing' from weaker line runs into stronger line runs.

But the bottom line is still the same...you are paying for a losing operation from a more profitable one, correct?


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## bretton88 (Jul 12, 2018)

NS VIA Fan said:


> There are already a couple of bus operators interested in picking up some of the route Greyhound is casting off.
> 
> One is Maritime Bus that took over from Acadian Lines 6 years ago. The owner says he obtained a less onerous operating license in negotiations with the Provinces that now allows him to adjust schedules without going through all the regulatory hearings etc. They can also now cross-subsidize between their other operations: city transit, school bus, charters and multi-day tours. And that is something the western Provinces are going to have to allow if any bus service is going to survive: a less regulated environment.
> 
> ...


These really are two cities that need train service between them. It would be massively successful, but as usual, no political will to make it happen.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 12, 2018)

Here's a link to the Greyhound Canada System Timetable.....probably the last!

http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/csked/pageset.html

Tables 700-701 are the Transcontinental Routes (from Ontario west)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 12, 2018)

seat38a said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Ridership on the routes wasn't all that bad. The Vancouver - Calgary has enough demand that Greyhound is running it 4x daily this summer. Last time I rode from Calgary to Moose Jaw on the TCH, it was packed to the last seat. The Calgary - Edmonton and Prince George - Kamloops are viable, too.
> ...


Indeed, you can sell every ticket for $0 and have high ridership and $0 revenue.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 12, 2018)

Greyhound has a large modern terminal building in Calgary:

https://goo.gl/maps/S8ggzVDyoGD2

And it would certainly make sense for any new operator to take this over especially for the ease of getting around the city with the connected by pedway C-Train Station.


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## railiner (Jul 12, 2018)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Greyhound has a large modern terminal building in Calgary:
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/S8ggzVDyoGD2
> 
> And it would certainly make sense for any new operator to take this over especially for the ease of getting around the city with the connected by pedway C-Train Station.


That would depend on the rent for that large facility, and how well it would be utilized...I imagine some start up low cost carrier would try to follow the Megabus model, and try to eliminate all station expenses, by leaving from a nearby curbside, if they could get away with it...or some small agency type depot if not.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 13, 2018)

railiner said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Greyhound has a large modern terminal building in Calgary:
> ...


According to a news report that I saw (I don't remember exactly where so I can't cite it), the Calgary building is owned by the City of Calgary, and would possibly be turned into a PABT-style terminal allowing any operator with the $$$ to enter.


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## railiner (Jul 13, 2018)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > NS VIA Fan said:
> ...


If that's the case, then yes, it would make good sense to pay a reasonable rent, and operate out of that modern facility.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 13, 2018)

The last time I took the Bus to Calgary (Canadian to Edmonton then Greyhound to Calgary) .....that C-Train Station hadn't opened and Greyhound was offering a complementary shuttle to downtown locations.


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## fairviewroad (Aug 6, 2018)

seat38a said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Ridership on the routes wasn't all that bad. The Vancouver - Calgary has enough demand that Greyhound is running it 4x daily this summer. Last time I rode from Calgary to Moose Jaw on the TCH, it was packed to the last seat. The Calgary - Edmonton and Prince George - Kamloops are viable, too.
> ...



The article quotes Greyhound as saying there was a 41 percent decline of ridership since 2010. That's a huge drop in a short period. I don't think high-but-unprofitable ridership is what's going on here.


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 17, 2018)

NS VIA Fan said:


> 'Coach Atlantic' operating as 'Maritime Bus' at St. Francis Xavier University.....the newly painted buses now carry both logos:


Heres the attractive co-branded Maritime Bus (scheduled services) and Coach Atlantic (charter division) colour scheme.

Caught this one in Newfoundland last week doing a charter to Gros Morne National Park.


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