# Infill Amtrak stops



## railgeekteen

What are some cities which are on an Amtrak route and warrant a stop, but they don't have one? Emporia Kansas comes to mind.


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## west point

Problem is normally each additional stop on LD trains adds 5 - 10 minutes to the schedule.


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## Palmetto

Pre-Amtrak, some trains did stop at Emporia. It might be a candidate for a stop during the daytime, as it's 40 miles to Topeka and further from Newton. But such a small city stop in the middle of the night was probably deemed ill-advised when Amtrak began.

Pure speculation on my part.


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## JayPea

Palmetto said:


> Pre-Amtrak, some trains did stop at Emporia. It might be a candidate for a stop during the daytime, as it's 40 miles to Topeka and further from Newton. But such a small city stop in the middle of the night was probably deemed ill-advised when Amtrak began.
> 
> Pure speculation on my part.


Actually, until 1996, Emporia was a stop on the SWC route. It was a crew change stop until 1990, and after that continued as a stop until 1996.


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## jis

So was it discontinued because hardly anyone used it? Or was it for some other reason?


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## blueman271

Suffolk VA comes to mind. I believe it is Virginia’s intention to eventually have the Norfolk Regional stop there but I am unsure of the timeline.


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## jis

blueman271 said:


> Suffolk VA comes to mind. I believe it is Virginia’s intention to eventually have the Norfolk Regional stop there but I am unsure of the timeline.


Indeed that is the case from what I have read.


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## Mystic River Dragon

Princeton Junction, NJ. They already have a couple that stop in the morning, but that's about it, I believe.

I am sometimes commuting when the southbound Palmetto stops there, and I have seen as many as 40 people board. The area has a train mentality (lots of commuters to NY and Philly) and tons of money, so many people there could afford Amtrak prices. Years ago, something called a "Clocker" did stop there (I don't know the history like many of you probably do), so it can be done.

P.S.--I didn't know if you meant a place that didn't have a station or a place that had a station not being used or not used much, so I answered as if it were the second--sorry if I misunderstood.


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## railgeekteen

Yuba City CA for some reason does not have a stop.


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## jis

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Princeton Junction, NJ. T
> 
> Years ago, something called a "Clocker" did stop there (I don't know the history like many of you probably do), so it can be done.


Clockers were continuation of PRR service for New York - Philadelphia Commuters.

In NJ their low fares in line with NJT for monthly tickets was subsidized by NJDOT. Eventually NJDOT decided that it was cheaper for them to just let NJT run the service between Trenton and New York, funded by them. At that point there was a mild attempt to get Pennsylvania to cough up subsidy to continue running them to Philly. But the usual Pennsylvania - New Jersey - SEPTA - NJT politics kicked in, and that was the end of that. Remember, it took years of wrangling to get the NJT Atlantic City service to start serving Philadelphia 30th St. too. In any case, no one has so far seen it fit to touch that one with a ten foot barge pole yet.

So today the remains of the Clockers are the NJT outer zone express trains between Trenton and New York on weekdays, and the NEC semi-expresses on weekends.

Amtrak has been reluctant to stop trains at PJC because it involves running their trains limited to 110mph often behind NJT trains limited to 90mph (for the EMUs), thus killing their fast schedule on their only piece of higher speed service in NJ. This situation will be considerably mitigated upon the completion of the NJ HSR project, which among other things, adds higher speed switches from the middle higher speed tracks to the side lower speed tracks at around Jersey Avenue, and also raises the max speed of the outer tracks between Jersey Avenue and Trenton to 125 mph, and simultaneously gets NJT push pull trains to be certified to operate at 125mph, thus decongesting the mess between County and Fair CPs. At that point it should become possible to get a few more Regionals to call at PJC.

Now, if they in their infinite wisdom had not removed at least the crossovers for moving to the slow line westbound and moving to the fast line eastbound at Nassau interlocking ...


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## Mystic River Dragon

Thank you, jis. Very interesting history on the Clockers.


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## amtkstn

Back to the Emporia Kansas topic after the station closed in 1996, it was destroyed by fire in 1999.


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## jis

amtkstn said:


> Back to the Emporia Kansas topic after the station closed in 1996, it was destroyed by fire in 1999.


Why was service discontinued there? Lack of patronage? I doubt that it had anything to do with speeding up the SWC.


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## Palmetto

JayPea said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pre-Amtrak, some trains did stop at Emporia. It might be a candidate for a stop during the daytime, as it's 40 miles to Topeka and further from Newton. But such a small city stop in the middle of the night was probably deemed ill-advised when Amtrak began.
> 
> Pure speculation on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, until 1996, Emporia was a stop on the SWC route. It was a crew change stop until 1990, and after that continued as a stop until 1996.
> 
> Ya learn something new every day. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Let's try this again: Ya learn something new every day. Thanks!


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## railiner

One thing to consider....back when the Lone Star was running, it went thru Topeka then to Emporia, while the Southwest Limited bypassed Topeka on a cutoff route via Ottawa (no stop there), and on to Emporia, where the routes rejoined on to Newton. So Emporia served some of the territory near Topeka, for the SWC, that were otherwise bypassed by it....


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## Palmetto

Kennebunk, ME is trying to add a stop on the Doweaster, but that effort seems to be faltering. And it's only 5 miles or so from Wells, ME.


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## railgeekteen

Old thread, but Dunkirk, NY should really be a stop on the LSL.


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## jis

railgeekteen said:


> Old thread, but Dunkirk, NY should really be a stop on the LSL.


Not so sure about LSL, but definitely for west of Albany Empire Service. The other place that had service pre-Amtrak AFAIR, and lost it, is Batavia between Rochester and Buffalo.


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## railgeekteen

jis said:


> Not so sure about LSL, but definitely for west of Albany Empire Service. The other lace that had service pre-Amtrak AFAIR, and lost it, is Batavia between Rochester and Buffalo.


Dunkirk isn't on the LSL line.


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## jis

railgeekteen said:


> Dunkirk isn't on the LSL line.


Oh sorry. Brain fart. I guess you meant to say Dunkirk is not on the Empire Corridor. I was really thinking of Lyons between Syracuse and Rochester when I made that comment.

Yeah Dunkirk would be a fine place for LSL to stop at, but I suspect Dunkirk will have to find the money to build a station with high platform on a passing loop for that to happen. Possibly a tall order in addition to getting CSX to agree to it.


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## Pere Flyer

Davis, Okla., and Ponder, Texas, should be added to the Heartland Flyer route. But the latter would require Texas to put more money and effort into the train, which the state has refused to do. If the extension to Newton/Wichita happens, stops can be added at Edmond and Guthrie.


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## sttom

Around me in California? I don't think Amtrak needs more stops along the corridor trains, but it does need more corridors to get more stops. Whole towns in the Sacramento Valley don't have stops. Mostly because the Starlight runs at night. If there was a couple of day time trains, towns that would make good stops would be Weed, Gibson/Pollard Flats, Red Bluff, Los Molinos, Yuba City/Marysville, Possibly Lincoln.

Other than that, I would say a North Bay line to Sacramento...oh yeah the not so SMART Train went with high level platforms....and there isn't a bridge between San Rafael and Richmond....oh well...


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## west point

Quick infill locations have many possibilities. Look how well the Orlando area has done with the stations that bookend the downtown Orlando station. A change in Amtrak policies for these stations to provide for quick dwell times. Best way would be list a time with a letter note saying train may leave station 10 minutes early or whatever is best time from proceeding regular timetable schedule station..

Stations would have only minimal platforms. Some locations in no special order! 
Richmond south, Raleigh ( already has Cary ) , CLT, ATL both east and west, Birmingham, ( Bessemer ), MEM )MS), HOU, DAL, Kansas City, CHI?, MSP. DEN, LAX, WASH, PHL, New Rochelle, Pittsburgh, STL, CLE, ! 

Certainly there may be others but you get the idea. Only covered parts of present LD routes.


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## plane2train

Would be nice if Norcross, GA could be added to the Crescent. Metro Atlanta is a big place, and Peachtree Station is not convenient for everyone.


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## Anderson

(1) Yes, VA plans to add Suffolk. The main issue is that the tracks in use _now_ are not the tracks they ultimately plan to use, so they don't want to build a station just to have it become redundant in a few years.
(2) In VA, other infill stations that come to mind include Orange, VA (there have been on-again/off-again efforts on this front), Carmel Church, VA (about halfway between Richmond and Fredericksburg), Norge/Toano (on the north/west side of Williamsburg; the target here is folks taking the train from that side of town, since parking at WBG stinks and expecting folks to go to NPN is a joke...does anyone know where the Lightfoot stop was?), and possibly something between CVS and LYH. I'd also add Busch Gardens (since the overflow parking lot for them is literally within spitting distance of the tracks).

@west point:
Going down your list:
-Richmond (south): I agree, insofar as most of the trains don't hit Main Street. Snarkily, one could say this is "Petersburg". The bigger problem here is the "Suffolk problem"...the long-term plan is to move traffic to the S-line, which would make any stop on the A-line redundant.
-Raleigh (already has Cary): Raleigh/Cary is probably sufficient pending SEHSR.
-Charlotte: Gastonia probably qualifies on the southern side of town. Kannapolis or Concord might work on the north side (bearing in mind that Salisbury is "only" 42 rail miles away)
-ATL (both east and west): Actually, I think "Atlanta, _anywhere_" would be a good idea due to the parking problems. The fact that the NS tracks parallel MARTA for several miles (and several stops) makes this all the more inexcusable. Lenox, Brookhaven, or Chamblee seem like decent candidates (Lindbergh Pocket, the next stop east/north, has a bad layout for co-location while Doraville is, unfortunately, right next to a yard that NS probably doesn't want messed with, even if that might also make it ideal for "not blocking the line"). There's probably a case for moving to one of these stops (on the "east" side), adding a stop on the west side, and then dumping the current station as being redundant, poorly accessible, and badly located. Note that the current Atlanta station's lack of MARTA access is a killer here: If MARTA served it, this wouldn't be as strong a situation.
-Birmingham (Bessemer): Probably not a big enough city/stop to quite justify.
-Memphis: You may have a case for both sides of town at a higher service level.
-Houston
-Dallas: Going west, I'd argue that Fort Worth should "cut it" and that TRE should take care of the rest of the needs in between. Going east? There might be a case for something out by I-635...if you can get more trains.
-Kansas City: Three sides to look at. Independence covers the River Runner. There's no good location towards Chicago on the Chief, and towards Topeka the pickings are a little slim as well (maybe out by I-435?).
-Chicago: On the east side, Amtrak has experimented with Hammond-Whiting on the LD trains. It wasn't a big success. Most of the other routes have a stop (Joliet, Galesburg, and Glenview). Something co-located with the SSL (at 75th Street) might have more success, but there might just not be the demand here.
-Minneapolis-St. Paul: There's probably a case to add a Minneapolis station as much as anything.
-Denver: Agreed on both sides of town. In particular, westbound should help with the Ski Train as well. Eastbound, is there anywhere you could co-locate with their mass transit system?
-LAX: All of the Amtrak routes have a stop elsewhere within the Metrolink network, but there might be a case to move the Chief over to the San Bernadino line and add one infill station at an existing Metrolink stop. The case for the Sunset Limited is more of a mess because of track configurations...ideally you'd give them both the same stopping pattern going out that way, but stopping the Sunset at San Bernadino would involve a _bad_ backup move likely to give you a peeved host railroad...while moving the Chief to the Sunset's tracks is just going to add a host to the operation and make things worse for everyone.
-Washington, DC: You already have Alexandria and Capitol Beltway...I mean, New Carrollton. Already covered. While we're at it, Baltimore has BWI (to the south). Martin Airport might be an option to the north...but as usual, I'm not sure of the economics of adding the stop vs adding travel time.
-Philadelphia: Adding some trains to North Philadelphia only seems justified if you start gentrifying the area as well. Note that both routes have high-frequency commuter service, so you could arguably add any of those stops...but those time arguments show up again.
-New Rochelle: Already stopped at by some trains, already suburban to New York.
-Pittsburgh: Three one-a-day routings out of here, two are in the middle of the night. Dubious value.
-St. Louis: Alton to the east, Kirkwood to the west. Covered.
-Cleveland: Already has Elyra.

On all of the NEC discussions, I'd say that if you got to 2-3x hourly service for a given level of train (e.g. Acela vs Regional), mixing stopping patterns (with a consistent number of stops) might be a winning move.


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## Ashland Train Enthusiast

Anderson said:


> (1) Yes, VA plans to add Suffolk. The main issue is that the tracks in use _now_ are not the tracks they ultimately plan to use, so they don't want to build a station just to have it become redundant in a few years.
> (2) In VA, other infill stations that come to mind include Orange, VA (there have been on-again/off-again efforts on this front), Carmel Church, VA (about halfway between Richmond and Fredericksburg), Norge/Toano (on the north/west side of Williamsburg; the target here is folks taking the train from that side of town, since parking at WBG stinks and expecting folks to go to NPN is a joke...does anyone know where the Lightfoot stop was?), and possibly something between CVS and LYH. I'd also add Busch Gardens (since the overflow parking lot for them is literally within spitting distance of the tracks).



Anderson, do you know the latest discussion around the Orange station stop? I was involved in some conversations with the CoC a couple of years ago about making the case to DPRT and Amtrak based on the experiences ASD had, but haven't heard anything about this moving one way or the other.



Anderson said:


> -Charlotte: Gastonia probably qualifies on the southern side of town. Kannapolis or Concord might work on the north side (bearing in mind that Salisbury is "only" 42 rail miles away)



Looks like Amtrak/NCDOT has decided that Kannapolis does work ;-). I've always thought that with the explosion of growth in the NW suburbs that there would be appetite for a station in the UNCC/Harrisburg area, with easy access of of 485.


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## jis

Ashland Train Enthusiast said:


> Looks like Amtrak/NCDOT has decided that Kannapolis does work ;-). I've always thought that with the explosion of growth in the NW suburbs that there would be appetite for a station in the UNCC/Harrisburg area, with easy access of of 485.


I have taken a Piedmont to Kannapolis. So Amtrak does stop there already.


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## Anderson

You're right, that's my bad. I was using LD timetables for the most part.


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## KMSAlex

jis said:


> Clockers were continuation of PRR service for New York - Philadelphia Commuters.
> 
> In NJ their low fares in line with NJT for monthly tickets was subsidized by NJDOT. Eventually NJDOT decided that it was cheaper for them to just let NJT run the service between Trenton and New York, funded by them. At that point there was a mild attempt to get Pennsylvania to cough up subsidy to continue running them to Philly. But the usual Pennsylvania - New Jersey - SEPTA - NJT politics kicked in, and that was the end of that. Remember, it took years of wrangling to get the NJT Atlantic City service to start serving Philadelphia 30th St. too. In any case, no one has so far seen it fit to touch that one with a ten foot barge pole yet.
> 
> So today the remains of the Clockers are the NJT outer zone express trains between Trenton and New York on weekdays, and the NEC semi-expresses on weekends.
> 
> Amtrak has been reluctant to stop trains at PJC because it involves running their trains limited to 110mph often behind NJT trains limited to 90mph (for the EMUs), thus killing their fast schedule on their only piece of higher speed service in NJ. This situation will be considerably mitigated upon the completion of the NJ HSR project, which among other things, adds higher speed switches from the middle higher speed tracks to the side lower speed tracks at around Jersey Avenue, and also raises the max speed of the outer tracks between Jersey Avenue and Trenton to 125 mph, and simultaneously gets NJT push pull trains to be certified to operate at 125mph, thus decongesting the mess between County and Fair CPs. At that point it should become possible to get a few more Regionals to call at PJC.
> 
> Now, if they in their infinite wisdom had not removed at least the crossovers for moving to the slow line westbound and moving to the fast line eastbound at Nassau interlocking ...




I travel somewhat often to Rutgers University from Central SC and back. Orignally being from NJ i've been suprrised to find that New brunswick is surved by Amtrak at all. Only 1 train south bound and 2 north bound. Is this station owned by Amtrak? It's rather historic and has an amtrak ticket office but looks to be more controlled by NJTransit. 

I've never boarded or de-trained here, I go to Metropark, NWK, or Trenton and back track. Does Amtrak have a history of stopping here more often, and do the high speed cross overs mean a likely increase in service here? Or is it not warented, unsure of how popular amtrak service is here.


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## jis

KMSAlex said:


> I travel somewhat often to Rutgers University from Central SC and back. Orignally being from NJ i've been suprrised to find that New brunswick is surved by Amtrak at all. Only 1 train south bound and 2 north bound. Is this station owned by Amtrak? It's rather historic and has an amtrak ticket office but looks to be more controlled by NJTransit.


AFAIK all NEC station in NJ except Newark Airport, are owned and operated by NJTransit. Newark Airport is PANYNJ thing IIRC.



> I've never boarded or de-trained here, I go to Metropark, NWK, or Trenton and back track. Does Amtrak have a history of stopping here more often, and do the high speed cross overs mean a likely increase in service here? Or is it not warented, unsure of how popular amtrak service is here.


All Clockers stopped there. Amtrak has in general downgraded service within New Jersey and concentrated on serving Newark Penn, Newark Airport, Metropark and Trenton. They have been up and down on Princeton Jct., and New Brunswick is basically just an afterthought. I don;t think that will change anytime soon.


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## thully

From my time in San Diego, I’d say a station between located near UTC mall with a connection to the future Mid-Coast Trolley line and nearby bus service would be useful. Would be more convienent for UCSD/Scripps as well as those destined for Sorrento Valley (home of Qualcomm and other major tech companies in SD). Of course, that may be difficult without other work there (such as a tunnel under UTC), though I do recall a Coaster station was studied for Nobel Dr. (There also is a Coaster station at Sorrento Valley, though the only other transit there are dedicated shuttles for the Coaster trains).


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## Siegmund

There was - so I was told second hand long ago - a company "rule" that stops had to be more than 50 miles apart. Or that a new stop had to be that far from an old stop, or something. This rule was cited as the reason the Pioneer quit stopping in Brigham City, UT, for instance. 

If anyone has any firm history on that alleged rule, I'd be interested to hear it. I am skeptical that it ever existed, given how many exceptions there were (and how many new exceptions get made - adding Leavenworth, WA to the Builder, for instance.)

On routes where Amtrak already doesn't compete well on a speed basis, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. If we actually get twice-daily frequencies on more LD routes, then there is room to distinguish 'local' and 'express' service.

I think a freight railroad might rather like the idea of a local - a 70MPH through freight and a 79MPH passenger making frequent stops might 'fleet' quite well.


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## ehbowen

I'd like to see a _Sunset Limited _stop added between Houston and San Antonio.


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## Bob Dylan

ehbowen said:


> I'd like to see a _Sunset Limited _stop added between Houston and San Antonio.


Several towns have worked on this( with Flatonia the most active) but so far UP and Amtrak have not given the OK to any of the Plans since they probably dont add up financially!( plus the Daily CHI-LAX Texas Eagle is still a possibility with a Stub Train proposed for SAS-NOL.)


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## AlamoWye

Actually UP did give approval for the Flatonia stop in 2017, of course with some conditions. When I was there for Czhilispiel last October, it didn't look like much had happened but they are planning to use the old depot, which had been converted to a police station, once again. I just don't know if any town would see much benefit until, unless, the Sunset is made daily

https://www.fayettecountyrecord.com...op-closer-ever-after-union-pacific’s-approval


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## dogbert617

I've always been greatly puzzled, why Hamilton, OH was removed as a Cardinal Amtrak station years ago(90s/2000s, I can't remember the year). IMO it seems like that would be a big enough place, to support a return of Amtrak's Cardinal to there once again. Also when I did research, it looks like Catlettsburg, KY used to have a station called Tri-State Station, that served both that main Cardinal Amtrak line, plus a former one that ran through places like Welch, WV, Christiansburg, VA, and Roanoke but no longer does. Forgive me, that I ALWAYS forget the name of that train and never can remember it, to save my life! The James Whitcomb Riley, I think? I guess to a lesser extent vs. Hamilton, it'd be nice for a place like Catlettsburg to once again have Amtrak service.



AlamoWye said:


> Actually UP did give approval for the Flatonia stop in 2017, of course with some conditions. When I was there for Czhilispiel last October, it didn't look like much had happened but they are planning to use the old depot, which had been converted to a police station, once again. I just don't know if any town would see much benefit until, unless, the Sunset is made daily
> 
> https://www.fayettecountyrecord.com...op-closer-ever-after-union-pacific’s-approval



I seem to remember reading there was once some stop Amtrak did stop at between Houston and San Antonio(Rosenberg?), but I forget which town it once was at years ago. Good luck to Flatonia, and hopefully that becomes a Sunset Limited stop down the road.

Now to move away from thinking of those 2 places, I agree with the posters who mentioned Dunkirk, NY, and Emporia, KS. For sure it is surprising both those 2 places, don't have an Amtrak station.

I'll contribute a new mention to this thread, the fact there's no station in either Wendover, UT, or West Wendover, NV on the California Zephyr route. It's a considerable distance to get to the 2 closest Amtrak stations(either Elko or Salt Lake City), and I'm sure the combined approximately 5700 people there(when I googled population between both communities) would welcome Amtrak service. Don't forget the casinos in West Wendover, as they'd welcome Amtrak service as well! So I'd probably construct the station in West Wendover instead of Wendover, but that's just me.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

On the SS, Sanford, NC seems to stand out as a sizeable town without a stop. Also, why don't the SS and SM stop in Wilson? On both the Palmetto and Carolinian, it generates significantly more traffic than Rocky Mount, which the SS and SM do stop at. In general, it seems like a waste of resources to maintain LD stops bypassed by other LD trains serving different city pairs (Mendota, Bryan, Selma/Smithfield, Dillon, Jesup, and Okeechobee come to mind), but based on the ridership numbers Wilson seems especially obvious. I'd also like to see the Coast Starlight reinstate the Richmond stop for the BART connection, although I understand the reasoning in that case.


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## JayPea

dogbert617 said:


> I've always been greatly puzzled, why Hamilton, OH was removed as a Cardinal Amtrak station years ago(90s/2000s, I can't remember the year). IMO it seems like that would be a big enough place, to support a return of Amtrak's Cardinal to there once again. Also when I did research, it looks like Catlettsburg, KY used to have a station called Tri-State Station, that served both that main Cardinal Amtrak line, plus a former one that ran through places like Welch, WV, Christiansburg, VA, and Roanoke but no longer does. Forgive me, that I ALWAYS forget the name of that train and never can remember it, to save my life! The James Whitcomb Riley, I think? I guess to a lesser extent vs. Hamilton, it'd be nice for a place like Catlettsburg to once again have Amtrak service.
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to remember reading there was once some stop Amtrak did stop at between Houston and San Antonio(Rosenberg?), but I forget which town it once was at years ago. Good luck to Flatonia, and hopefully that becomes a Sunset Limited stop down the road.
> 
> Now to move away from thinking of those 2 places, I agree with the posters who mentioned Dunkirk, NY, and Emporia, KS. For sure it is surprising both those 2 places, don't have an Amtrak station.
> 
> I'll contribute a new mention to this thread, the fact there's no station in either Wendover, UT, or West Wendover, NV on the California Zephyr route. It's a considerable distance to get to the 2 closest Amtrak stations(either Elko or Salt Lake City), and I'm sure the combined approximately 5700 people there(when I googled population between both communities) would welcome Amtrak service. Don't forget the casinos in West Wendover, as they'd welcome Amtrak service as well! So I'd probably construct the station in West Wendover instead of Wendover, but that's just me.



It seems to me I have read somewhere that there are those in "the Wendovers" who have pushed for an Amtrak stop.


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## dogbert617

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> On the SS, Sanford, NC seems to stand out as a sizeable town without a stop. Also, why don't the SS and SM stop in Wilson? On both the Palmetto and Carolinian, it generates significantly more traffic than Rocky Mount, which the SS and SM do stop at. In general, it seems like a waste of resources to maintain LD stops bypassed by other LD trains serving different city pairs (Mendota, Bryan, Selma/Smithfield, Dillon, Jesup, and Okeechobee come to mind), but based on the ridership numbers Wilson seems especially obvious. I'd also like to see the Coast Starlight reinstate the Richmond stop for the BART connection, although I understand the reasoning in that case.



What was the exact reasoning, why Amtrak removed the Richmond, CA stop for the Starlight? Seems weird they'd remove that stop, but that's just me. Did say too few riders, use that station on the Starlight?

For Wilson, NC, you'd think either the Star or Meteor if not both trains(am totally forgetting where the split occurs, for the routing of the Star and Meteor in NC), would serve Wilson! Particularly since that town has a college, that coincidentally and funny enough a friend of my brother's is a professor at. Also maybe it's just me, but I don't mind places like say Mendota, Bryan, Okeechobee, etc. having stations, and would oppose their removal. But that's just me. Do you not look favorably at towns that do have Amtrak regional trains stopping there, but that long distance Amtrak trains don't stop at(i.e. Oregon City, OR, Dwight, IL, Amsterdam, NY, Rome, NY)?

Back to infill stations, another one on an existing long distance route where I'm surprised Amtrak removed that station, is in Seligman, AZ. I think considering the distance to Kingman and Flagstaff on the SW Chief, that it should be brought back. But that's just me.[/QUOTE]


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## JRR

Wilson NC also has Parkers Barbecue which has its fans!


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## jis

dogbert617 said:


> I've always been greatly puzzled, why Hamilton, OH was removed as a Cardinal Amtrak station years ago(90s/2000s, I can't remember the year). IMO it seems like that would be a big enough place, to support a return of Amtrak's Cardinal to there once again.


This might give you some insight on what caused the discontinuance of service to Hamilton OH. 

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/25678508/amtrak_hamilton_october_31_2005_part_1/



> Also when I did research, it looks like Catlettsburg, KY used to have a station called Tri-State Station, that served both that main Cardinal Amtrak line, plus a former one that ran through places like Welch, WV, Christiansburg, VA, and Roanoke but no longer does. Forgive me, that I ALWAYS forget the name of that train and never can remember it, to save my life! The James Whitcomb Riley, I think? I guess to a lesser extent vs. Hamilton, it'd be nice for a place like Catlettsburg to once again have Amtrak service.


You can find answers to most of your questions regarding Catlettsburg at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catlettsburg_station

It is almost exactly halfway between Huntington and Ashland with a population of 1,856. It is part of the Huntington-Ashland MSA. I don't see any particular need to add a stop there in addition to the stops at Huntington and Ashland.


> I seem to remember reading there was once some stop Amtrak did stop at between Houston and San Antonio(Rosenberg?), but I forget which town it once was at years ago. Good luck to Flatonia, and hopefully that becomes a Sunset Limited stop down the road.


Yes, there was a stop at Rosenberg TX, 35 miles west of Houston, discontinued in 1981. This is where the Sunset route and the Inter-American/Texas Eagle Houston section's route diverged.


> Now to move away from thinking of those 2 places, I agree with the posters who mentioned Dunkirk, NY, and Emporia, KS. For sure it is surprising both those 2 places, don't have an Amtrak station.


Dunkirk is currently a Thruway destination, which connects from morning westbound Empire Service trains. Only the Lake Shore passes by Dunkirk westbound at oh-dark-thirty and east bound at a slightly more civilized hours.

Emporia used to be a stop of the Southwest Limited/Chief. But IIRC, discontinuance of Emporia as a crew change point caused Emporia to go away as a stop in 1996. The crew change discontinuance resulted in Amtrak moving out of the station building to a bus shelter type structure. The station building subsequently burned down and was torn down sometime after 1996. Now there is nothing left there.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

dogbert617 said:


> What was the exact reasoning, why Amtrak removed the Richmond, CA stop for the Starlight? Seems weird they'd remove that stop, but that's just me. Did say too few riders, use that station on the Starlight?
> 
> For Wilson, NC, you'd think either the Star or Meteor if not both trains(am totally forgetting where the split occurs, for the routing of the Star and Meteor in NC), would serve Wilson! Particularly since that town has a college, that coincidentally and funny enough a friend of my brother's is a professor at. Also maybe it's just me, but I don't mind places like say Mendota, Bryan, Okeechobee, etc. having stations, and would oppose their removal. But that's just me. Do you not look favorably at towns that do have Amtrak regional trains stopping there, but that long distance Amtrak trains don't stop at(i.e. Oregon City, OR, Dwight, IL, Amsterdam, NY, Rome, NY)?
> 
> Back to infill stations, another one on an existing long distance route where I'm surprised Amtrak removed that station, is in Seligman, AZ. I think considering the distance to Kingman and Flagstaff on the SW Chief, that it should be brought back. But that's just me.


[/QUOTE]
The reason the Richmond stop was cancelled is that the station is operated by BART, which means that a late CS frequently passed though the area after the station was physically closed. This required Amtrak to buy taxi rides for ticketed passengers from Emeryville to Richmond. The southbound train was not impacted by this issue, so I suppose Amtrak just decided it was not worth it to only have the CS stop in one direction. 

As to the other stations, I don't support closing them; I support expanding service to them. My point was that stations like Okeechobee and Jesup would be much more useful if the SS and SM both stopped there, as it wouldn't require any new infrastructure and have minimal impact on the schedule.


----------



## dogbert617

jis said:


> This might give you some insight on what caused the discontinuance of service to Hamilton OH.
> 
> https://www.newspapers.com/clip/25678508/amtrak_hamilton_october_31_2005_part_1/
> 
> 
> You can find answers to most of your questions regarding Catlettsburg at:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catlettsburg_station
> 
> It is almost exactly halfway between Huntington and Ashland with a population of 1,856. It is part of the Huntington-Ashland MSA. I don't see any particular need to add a stop there in addition to the stops at Huntington and Ashland.
> 
> Yes, there was a stop at Rosenberg TX, 35 miles west of Houston, discontinued in 1981. This is where the Sunset route and the Inter-American/Texas Eagle Houston section's route diverged.
> 
> Dunkirk is currently a Thruway destination, which connects from morning westbound Empire Service trains. Only the Lake Shore passes by Dunkirk westbound at oh-dark-thirty and east bound at a slightly more civilized hours.
> 
> Emporia used to be a stop of the Southwest Limited/Chief. But IIRC, discontinuance of Emporia as a crew change point caused Emporia to go away as a stop in 1996. The crew change discontinuance resulted in Amtrak moving out of the station building to a bus shelter type structure. The station building subsequently burned down and was torn down sometime after 1996. Now there is nothing left there.



Thanks for mentioning this info, about all these cities and towns! That's too bad the condition of Hamilton's station, is what led to its elimination. Considering how bad I've heard the flag stop in Sanderson, TX on Sunset is like, and that Deming, Lordsburg, and Benson don't look in good shape either, only having outside shelters and not an indoor waiting room at all.  It'd be nice if someday, Hamilton could regain a stop back on Cardinal.

Catlettsburg's('Tri-State') elimination as a Card station makes sense, as that stop was essentially moved over to Ashland.

I see I was right on Rosenberg, TX, and that's odd I didn't realize Dunkirk was an Amtrak thruway bus stop. IMO that should instead be a stop for Lake Shore, considering there is a SUNY college nearby. And thanks for answering about Emporia. Where in Kansas did that crew change point, move to? Too bad to hear the old station, burned down.

The reason the Richmond stop was cancelled is that the station is operated by BART, which means that a late CS frequently passed though the area after the station was physically closed. This required Amtrak to buy taxi rides for ticketed passengers from Emeryville to Richmond. The southbound train was not impacted by this issue, so I suppose Amtrak just decided it was not worth it to only have the CS stop in one direction.

As to the other stations, I don't support closing them; I support expanding service to them. My point was that stations like Okeechobee and Jesup would be much more useful if the SS and SM both stopped there, as it wouldn't require any new infrastructure and have minimal impact on the schedule.[/QUOTE]

I see, about Richmond, CA. I guess Starlight (-late) had enough northbound delays late enough after the end of service, that it didn't allow connections to BART subway trains?

And thanks for explaining your opinion about stations like Jesup, Okeechobee, Bryan, etc. Yep I have no idea why certain stations get skipped by one Amtrak train, yet another one may serve a certain station.


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## chakk

JayPea said:


> It seems to me I have read somewhere that there are those in "the Wendovers" who have pushed for an Amtrak stop.



The original California Zephyr used to stop in Wendover. It was the middle of the night in both directions.


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## chakk

dogbert617 said:


> Thanks for mentioning this info, about all these cities and towns! That's too bad the condition of Hamilton's station, is what led to its elimination. Considering how bad I've heard the flag stop in Sanderson, TX on Sunset is like, and that Deming, Lordsburg, and Benson don't look in good shape either, only having outside shelters and not an indoor waiting room at all.  It'd be nice if someday, Hamilton could regain a stop back on Cardinal.
> 
> Catlettsburg's('Tri-State') elimination as a Card station makes sense, as that stop was essentially moved over to Ashland.
> 
> I see I was right on Rosenberg, TX, and that's odd I didn't realize Dunkirk was an Amtrak thruway bus stop. IMO that should instead be a stop for Lake Shore, considering there is a SUNY college nearby. And thanks for answering about Emporia. Where in Kansas did that crew change point, move to? Too bad to hear the old station, burned down.
> 
> 
> The reason the Richmond stop was cancelled is that the station is operated by BART, which means that a late CS frequently passed though the area after the station was physically closed. This required Amtrak to buy taxi rides for ticketed passengers from Emeryville to Richmond. The southbound train was not impacted by this issue, so I suppose Amtrak just decided it was not worth it to only have the CS stop in one.



Given the crime situation around the Richmond BART station, Amtrak probably paid not only for a taxi driver but also for someone to ride shotgun -- with a shotgun! [emoji6]


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## jis

dogbert617 said:


> ......
> And thanks for answering about Emporia. Where in Kansas did that crew change point, move to? Too bad to hear the old station, burned down.
> ......


Coming to think of it, I am not so sure about the crew district thing even though it is mentioned in that web page. Emporia is just too close to Kansas City for that to make any sense. OTOH maybe in the miles per day regime of crew districts it made sense. Anyway, the longer stop was in Newton for both the Chief and the Lone Star, if a common crew district point between the two trains was an issue.

Anyhow today the crew district point is Dodge City. Here is a handy map of Amtrak crew districts which is mostly upto date.

http://trn.trains.com/~/media/files/pdf/map-of-the-month/trn-m0506_a.pdf


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## dogbert617

Anderson said:


> (1) Yes, VA plans to add Suffolk. The main issue is that the tracks in use _now_ are not the tracks they ultimately plan to use, so they don't want to build a station just to have it become redundant in a few years.
> (2) In VA, other infill stations that come to mind include Orange, VA (there have been on-again/off-again efforts on this front), Carmel Church, VA (about halfway between Richmond and Fredericksburg), Norge/Toano (on the north/west side of Williamsburg; the target here is folks taking the train from that side of town, since parking at WBG stinks and expecting folks to go to NPN is a joke...does anyone know where the Lightfoot stop was?), and possibly something between CVS and LYH. I'd also add Busch Gardens (since the overflow parking lot for them is literally within spitting distance of the tracks).
> 
> @west point:
> Going down your list:
> -Richmond (south): I agree, insofar as most of the trains don't hit Main Street. Snarkily, one could say this is "Petersburg". The bigger problem here is the "Suffolk problem"...the long-term plan is to move traffic to the S-line, which would make any stop on the A-line redundant.
> -Raleigh (already has Cary): Raleigh/Cary is probably sufficient pending SEHSR.
> -Charlotte: Gastonia probably qualifies on the southern side of town. Kannapolis or Concord might work on the north side (bearing in mind that Salisbury is "only" 42 rail miles away)
> -ATL (both east and west): Actually, I think "Atlanta, _anywhere_" would be a good idea due to the parking problems. The fact that the NS tracks parallel MARTA for several miles (and several stops) makes this all the more inexcusable. Lenox, Brookhaven, or Chamblee seem like decent candidates (Lindbergh Pocket, the next stop east/north, has a bad layout for co-location while Doraville is, unfortunately, right next to a yard that NS probably doesn't want messed with, even if that might also make it ideal for "not blocking the line"). There's probably a case for moving to one of these stops (on the "east" side), adding a stop on the west side, and then dumping the current station as being redundant, poorly accessible, and badly located. Note that the current Atlanta station's lack of MARTA access is a killer here: If MARTA served it, this wouldn't be as strong a situation.
> -Minneapolis-St. Paul: There's probably a case to add a Minneapolis station as much as anything.
> -Denver: Agreed on both sides of town. In particular, westbound should help with the Ski Train as well. Eastbound, is there anywhere you could co-locate with their mass transit system?
> -Pittsburgh: Three one-a-day routings out of here, two are in the middle of the night. Dubious value.



First off, let me say for Gastonia, the Crescent already stops there. It's one of those late night stops, but better than nothing for the Charlotte area that Amtrak serves that station. Kannapolis (sp?) already is a Piedmont and Carolinan stop, but that Crescent doesn't stop at Kannapolis.

For Atlanta(never mind there's discussion on a different thread about other worthy stops for a 2nd area one, if you don't count Gainesville), Doraville would be a possible one, since there's a lot of vacant land that way after the GM plant was demolished. West of Atlanta (there's been less discussion in that other thread about possible just west of Atlanta stops, and most has been discussion east of Atlanta), I could see Mableton, Austell, or Douglasville being a possible new Crescent stop after looking at the 'track a train' Amtrak map. Lol, I must not be the only person, who has to look at the 'track a train' map to remind me which towns, suburbs, etc. Amtrak runs through?

For northwest Pittsburgh metro area, though it'd be a late at night/very early morning stop, and similar to Alliance, OH, I could see a stop around Monaca, Beaver, Rochester, or New Brighton being the most successful? There are some plants and factories by there, so maybe it'd work as a stop. East of Pittsburgh is already covered on the Pennsylvanian(to Harrisburg, Lancaster, Philly, and on to NYC) route, with Greensburg being a current stop. On a side note for the Pittsburgh area, it'd be nice if the T (their light rail system) could possibly be expanded just a little bit more. It is a pretty good system, and as it is covers a lot of ground. There also are busways(dedicated bus only roads, like the one going east to the Lawrenceville neighborhood IIRC) in other areas, so as it is their public transit coverage isn't bad. Finally with a stop in Connellsville, not sure if Amtrak would consider another Capitol Limited stop in the middle (I.e. Clairton, Jefferson Hills, Baldwin, sorry the track a train map oddly isn't loading up on my phone at the moment, and I'm not near a computer to look at that map for the moment).

I'd disagree with eliminating Dallas as a stop, and considering the Heartland Flyer special 'Big Game' trains (for the Oklahoma vs. Texas game) make an extra stop in Dallas, no way that would work. OTOH, you definitely could argue Minneapolis could become an additional Empire Builder stop. At least for now there is a light rail system between St. Paul and Minneapolis(and one of the light rail lines currently goes between both cities), so that there is some efficient way to travel between both cities.

I'll think of some more about suburban/exurban possible stops on this thread later, when I can get the 'track a train' map to load up again, and when I'm on a proper computer. And like I said earlier, am surprised Seligman, AZ isn't trying to lobby Amtrak to bring a stop back there. As it once was a Super Chief stop in the Santa Fe RR era, and I want to say even into the Amtrak era it was a SW Chief stop for a little while. Finally, there's a definite gap of no service, between Flagstaff and Kingman. Yes adding such a stop here probably won't be a high priority due to the fact it'd be an 'o-dark-thirty' stop if added, but I think it'd help SW Chief riders to bring a stop back there. Also between Winslow, AZ and Gallup, NM, maybe Holbrook could be considered as a new stop location? Bonus that this wouldn't be an o dark thirty stop, if a new stop here was added.


----------



## jis

I thought Seligman used to be a stop because it was a crew change/division point, and not so much because it had significant ridership. It has a population of 445 or so. There is a gap between Flagstaff and Kingman, because there isn't enough ridership to be had by stopping anywhere in between those two points. You cannot just stop a train in some random place just because there is a gap. Maybe Amtrak should reinstate the concept of flag stops, and then have dozens of them like VIA does for the Canadian, where mostly the train does not really stop at all.

Incidentally, even though Amtrak shows the stop at Grimsby as a regular stop, VIA treated it as a flag stop in both directions when I passed through there. Since there was no one boarding or disembarking, they did not stop.


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## dogbert617

jis said:


> I thought Seligman used to be a stop because it was a crew change/division point, and not so much because it had significant ridership. It has a population of 445 or so. There is a gap between Flagstaff and Kingman, because there isn't enough ridership to be had by stopping anywhere in between those two points. You cannot just stop a train in some random place just because there is a gap. Maybe Amtrak should reinstate the concept of flag stops, and then have dozens of them like VIA does for the Canadian, where mostly the train does not really stop at all.



Fair enough, about Seligman. And you're right that unless it was a flag stop, it's probably unlikely Amtrak would add a station there. One thing I've noticed that is odd on a lot of the newer year Amtrak schedules, is how come for stations that were traditionally flag stops, they don't have that icon next to the station as often as past year schedules often would have?

Guess Seligman was like Emporia, that years ago it was mostly stopped at, due to the town being a crew change point.


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## Qapla

The Waldo Fl Amtrak Station still exists - though it hasn't been open in years ... overall, the building still looks to be in OK shape, though it is NOT ADA compliant.

The station used to be full service with checked baggage and a ticket counter.

Back in the 1960's and moving into the 1970's a friend of mine's father was the Station Master. The station was not open full-time - but opened for service an hour or two before the train was scheduled and stayed open for 30 minutes after the train left.


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## pennyk

Qapla said:


> The Waldo Fl Amtrak Station still exists - though it hasn't been open in years ... overall, the building still looks to be in OK shape, though it is NOT ADA compliant.
> 
> The station used to be full service with checked baggage and a ticket counter.
> 
> Back in the 1960's and moving into the 1970's a friend of mine's father was the Station Master. The station was not open full-time - but opened for service an hour or two before the train was scheduled and stayed open for 30 minutes after the train left.
> View attachment 14633
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 14634


Thanks for posting the photos. It brings back many fond memories of departing and arriving from that Station when I lived in Gainesville in the 1970s.


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## Anderson

Reinstating the idea of flag stops is actually a good one on routes served only once or twice per day; once you get up in the 3-5x/day range, you can probably simply vary stopping patterns to cover most of the relevant stops.


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## railiner

I would like to see the Silver Meteor stop at Okeechobee, since the Star already does...for selfish reasons (I'm moving there), but since there is already a station there, and no other train's serve it, and since the routes differ north of Savannah...why not? It would only add a few minutes to the schedule...


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## jis

railiner said:


> I would like to see the Silver Meteor stop at Okeechobee, since the Star already does...for selfish reasons (I'm moving there), but since there is already a station there, and no other train's serve it, and since the routes differ north of Savannah...why not? It would only add a few minutes to the schedule...


It also would add access to Tampa from O. Very little to argue against it.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

jis said:


> It also would add access to Tampa from O. Very little to argue against it.


The SS is the train that stops there now, so there already is access to Tampa. Added service would introduce a direct train to cities between Savannah and Rocky Mount as well as additional connections in the Northeast.


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## jis

Ah OK. I got it backwards.Then the argument for stopping the SM is much weaker, since it is hard to believe that the demand for Charleston and Fayetteville from Okeechobee is any more than just occasional.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

jis said:


> Ah OK. I got it backwards.Then the argument for stopping the SM is much weaker, since it is hard to believe that the demand for Charleston and Fayetteville from Okeechobee is any more than just occasional.


True, but it would also introduce an additional frequency to South Florida, Orlando, and Jacksonville, with significantly faster service to the latter 2.


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## jis

Given Okeechobee’s low ridership I think it is another case for a flag stop.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

jis said:


> Given Okeechobee’s low ridership I think it is another case for a flag stop.





jis said:


> Given Okeechobee’s low ridership I think it is another case for a flag stop.


Honestly I think any stop that has a reasonable chance of having no passengers for a given train should be a flag stop, which describes many rural Amtrak stations. During the most recent year, there were 3,988 passengers in Okeechobee which corresponds to about 5.5 per train. Also worth noting is that the top 6 ridership destinations are composed of 4/6 South Florida stations, Tampa, and Lakeland. SM service would probably push Orlando from 7 to 2 or 3 and put Jacksonville on the list. It's also interesting that Philadelphia generated more passengers than Washington, which is unusual for LD service and may be the to the lack of connections at WAS. For the top 10 revenue stations, 3 are between Savannah and Rocky Mount, so cities between those cities on the SM route may have some potential. It is a small sample size, so it is admittedly difficult to make conclusions, but I don't see much of a downside, especially if it was a flag stop as you suggest.


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## Metra Electric Rider

Of course, adding service might add passengers too (in the Okeechobee case - of course, I'm only commenting because I wanted to type Okeechobee).


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## Pere Flyer

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Of course, adding service might add passengers too (in the Okeechobee case - of course, I'm only commenting because I wanted to type Okeechobee).



Ah, the principle of induced demand—or as I like to call it, “Track of Dreams”: If you build it, they will ride.


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## railgeekteen

Has anyone mentioned Oxford on the Cardinal? Maybe one or two more Nevada stops on the CZ. Also Emporia, Virginia, on one of the trains that goes through there.


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## sttom

I know in Nevada's case the state wanted to add stops at Fernley and Wendover in one of their transportation plans. There may have been a couple more, but those are the ones I remember them mentioning. Soda Springs would also be a good stop to add in the Sierras due to its proximity to ski resorts. I vaguely remember it getting mentioned as a potential stop if the Capitol was extended to Reno, but nothing ever came of it.


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## railiner

Don't recall if we discussed this before, but does anyone have any idea of which is the largest (population) town that Amtrak passes thru, but doesn't stop at?
I could be because of proximity to a nearby large town such as Minneapolis to St. Paul, or it could be because a commuter service that Amtrak can connect with serves it, such as say, Norwalk, Ct....


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## Qapla

Not that it is a large population but I noticed today that, apparently, neither of the Silvers is stopping in Jessup, Ga. The Meteor had been stopping there while the Star didn't. That would mean that anyone traveling from Brunswick, Ga now has to drive more than an hour and deal with Jacksonville traffic instead of a 45 minute country drive


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## Palmetto

railgeekteen said:


> Has anyone mentioned Oxford on the Cardinal? Maybe one or two more Nevada stops on the CZ. Also Emporia, Virginia, on one of the trains that goes through there.



That has been suggested, if not here, then on another site.


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## jis

Qapla said:


> Not that it is a large population but I noticed today that, apparently, neither of the Silvers is stopping in Jessup, Ga. The Meteor had been stopping there while the Star didn't. That would mean that anyone traveling from Brunswick, Ga now has to drive more than an hour and deal with Jacksonville traffic instead of a 45 minute country drive


A few test bookings in November suggest that 97/98 continues to serve Jesup, GA (JSP), while 91/92 continue not to serve JSP. If you try to book on a non-97/98 day it offers you the next 97/98 day.


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## Qapla

jis said:


> A few test bookings in November suggest that 97/98 continues to serve Jesup, GA (JSP), while 91/92 continue not to serve JSP. If you try to book on a non-91/92 day it offers you the next 97/98 day.



Interesting ...
transitdocs Amtrak map does not show that - I thought they got the route/stop info from Amtrak feed




As can e seen - neither Silvers list JSP as a stop between SAV and JAX


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## tgstubbs1

If a person waits at a flag stop will the train always stop?


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## bms

Oxford has pretty bad calling times, but probably would still get some passengers because it is a college town. Some of the West Virginia stops on the Cardinal could be flag stops.

It would be nice to have a suburban stop outside of Cleveland, just to have an alternative to the downtown Amshack. Perhaps Elyria is supposed to fill that role, but a platform with a bus shelter isn't exactly great either.


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## west point

You always run into the ADA requirements when adding a stop. ( now full length platforms ?


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## jebr

railiner said:


> Don't recall if we discussed this before, but does anyone have any idea of which is the largest (population) town that Amtrak passes thru, but doesn't stop at?
> I could be because of proximity to a nearby large town such as Minneapolis to St. Paul, or it could be because a commuter service that Amtrak can connect with serves it, such as say, Norwalk, Ct....



I think it's going to be tough to beat Minneapolis - Google reports a population of 425,403, and I can't immediately think of a city that large that Amtrak doesn't stop at inside the city limits (realistically, it'd have to be a metro area with multiple large municipalities.)


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## Palmetto

If an Amtrak train is to stop in Minneapolis, it would have to take a route different from today's Empire Builder route in order to arrive at the currently used station. I believe the GN _Western Star _used the route in question, heading west to Willmar, then north to Fargo.


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## PVD

Phoenix would be a good example. Maricopa is not so close to the heart of the area.


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## Rasputin

Marfa, Texas


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## railiner

jebr said:


> I think it's going to be tough to beat Minneapolis - Google reports a population of 425,403, and I can't immediately think of a city that large that Amtrak doesn't stop at inside the city limits (realistically, it'd have to be a metro area with multiple large municipalities.)


Prior to Amtrak...most all trains serving the Twin Cities, stopped at both cities...St. Paul Union Depot, and either the Great Northern, or the Milwaukee Road station in Minneapolis. When Amtrak began in 1971, they skipped St. Paul, until the Midway Station was opened half way between them in 1978. Now they only serve St. Paul.


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## railiner

PVD said:


> Phoenix would be a good example. Maricopa is not so close to the heart of the area.


I am only considering cities the train actually goes thru...Phoenix is no longer on the route.


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## Palmetto

Rasputin said:


> Marfa, Texas




 As to Phoenix, the OP was wondering about cities that Amtrak actually runs through without stopping. The leaves out Phoenix, at least techically.


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## JayPea

In my neck of the woods there is a grassroots movement afoot to establish a stop at Ritzville, WA, halfway between Spokane and Pasco. Ritzville is currently a Thruway stop, and was once upon a time a stop for the Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited, amongst other trains. Selfishly I'd like to see this, but it is immensely impractical. Ritzville is a town of about 1700, and there aren't many large population centers nearby. The only ones of any size at all are Moses Lake, 45 miles away(population 24,500) and Othello, also about 45 miles away (population 8700). And Othello is about that close to Pasco, which offers checked baggage which Ritzville surely wouldn't. Moses Lake is about 70 miles from Pasco, but again Pasco offers checked luggage. The boarding and retraining times would range from not great but not horrible to positively awful. Eastbound it would arrive there around 10:30 PM or so, and westbound would be around 4AM. It would be about 15 minutes longer for me to drive there than Spokane, and surely it wouldn't cost an arm, two legs, my firstborn, several units of blood, and a note from my mother to park like it does in Spokane. Ritzville does already have a station; it serves as a museum of railroad memorabilia. I'd love to see it but don't think it's practical.


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## trainman74

Arlington, Texas, has a population just under 400,000 -- but if I recall correctly, the Texas Eagle generally doesn't pass through anymore (because it usually runs on the TRE tracks, which are further north).


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## railiner

Lots of smaller cities have been dropped thru the years, not because of reroutes, but other reasons. Other's have been added, in some cases as nearby replacements, but not always...
Places like Akron, Co, Monmouth and Aurora, Il, on the Zephyr...


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## JayPea

railiner said:


> Lots of smaller cities have been dropped thru the years, not because of reroutes, but other reasons. Other's have been added, in some cases as nearby replacements, but not always...
> Places like Akron, Co, Monmouth and Aurora, Il, on the Zephyr...


Troy, MT on the EB comes to mind as an example of this.


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## Bob Dylan

Marfa,TX used to be a Sunset Ltd stop, now its Alpine 20 Miles East.


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## jebr

Palmetto said:


> If an Amtrak train is to stop in Minneapolis, it would have to take a route different from today's Empire Builder route in order to arrive at the currently used station. I believe the GN _Western Star _used the route in question, heading west to Willmar, then north to Fargo.



Yeah, any stop on the Builder would either require a significant backup move, a reroute, or building a new stop. None of these, as far as I'm aware, have progressed beyond railfan dreaming at this point.

The most likely scenario for Minneapolis to get an Amtrak stop, especially if we exclude any potential Thruway service expansion, would be through Amtrak operating the Northern Lights Express whenever it gets funding. It's basically at shovel-ready status, and just needs funding to be built and start operation.


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## jiml

jebr said:


> The most likely scenario for Minneapolis to get an Amtrak stop, especially if we exclude any potential Thruway service expansion, would be through Amtrak operating the Northern Lights Express whenever it gets funding. It's basically at shovel-ready status, and just needs funding to be built and start operation.


Were the mid-80's the last conventional service on this route?


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## railiner

jiml said:


> Were the mid-80's the last conventional service on this route?


The Amtrak Northstar, made its last run between Midway Station and Duluth in 1985...




__





The Museum of Railway Timetables (timetables.org)






www.timetables.org


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## jiml

railiner said:


> The Amtrak Northstar, made its last run between Midway Station and Duluth in 1985...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Museum of Railway Timetables (timetables.org)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.timetables.org


Thanks, that's what I thought but wasn't sure. It seems like an odd choice for high(er) speed service after a 35 year hiatus, rather than just restoration of something less - even after reading the linked proposal. It seems like more a candidate for Downeaster or Ethan Allen type of service. Maybe even an ideal route for RDC's (as discussed previously). With the weather in that part of the country I don't know how well a modern MU would function.


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## TWA904

On the Crescent route you have Leeds, AL which is 18 miles east of B'ham with a population of 12,000. Then there is Pell City, AL which is 30 miles east of B'ham with a population of 14,000. At or near Pell City is a Honda plant an Talladega Motor Speedway.


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## PVD

Honda is Lincoln Alabama less than 20 miles probably Talladega Speedway is less than 40


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## railgeekteen

Why doesn't the CONO stop in Cairo?


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## Thunder

No clue. That was out of my area of qualification .
i am guessing no one there riding


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## railiner

railgeekteen said:


> Why doesn't the CONO stop in Cairo?





Thunder said:


> No clue. That was out of my area of qualification .
> i am guessing no one there riding


Probably a good guess...
It did stop at North Cairo earlier...
Ended in 1987.

Here's a link to an earlier discussion on it...




__





CONO, Illini, Saluki out of CHI, and stop at Cairo?


How do these trains get out of/into CUS? Looking on Google Earth, I'm thinking that they back out of the station, turn west, go back, then turn eastwards then down the Electric line to Homewood & beyond? Also, why did the CONO stop stopping at Cairo IL? They could just build a ramp & stairs up...




www.amtraktrains.com


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## Qapla

Silly me ... and here I was thinking Cairo, Georgia




The people who live in Cairo, Ga pronounce it like "Kay-row"


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## PVD

At least no one asked which side of the train you have to sit on to see the pyramids...


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## Rasputin

Qapla said:


> The people who live in Cairo, Ga pronounce it like "Kay-row"


I believe that is true in Illinois as well but someone can correct me if not.


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## jis

Rasputin said:


> I believe that is true in Illinois as well but someone can correct me if not.


According to Wikipedia 

Cairo GA is pronounced as /ˈkeɪroʊ/ 

Cairo IL is pronounced as /ˈkɛəroʊ/ _KAIR-oh_


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## Palmetto

Rasputin said:


> I believe that is true in Illinois as well but someone can correct me if not.



You are correct. It's pronounced like Caro syrup, an ingredient needed to my my Boston baked beans.


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## Qapla

I don't really care what Wikipedia says, (don't understand how to pronounce "keɪroʊ") my SIL's parents lived in Cairo, Ga until they died ... I have heard with my own ears how the people who live there pronounce it


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## Barb Stout

Qapla said:


> Silly me ... and here I was thinking Cairo, Georgia
> 
> View attachment 19121
> 
> 
> The people who live in Cairo, Ga pronounce it like "Kay-row"


I think the Cairo Illinois people pronounce it that way also. Isn't there a song where someone, perhaps a train conductor, calls out Cairo Illinois?


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## railiner

Another pronunciation I used to chuckle about was Durant, Mississippi, when the _City _went there...
Conductor Woody Vinson would pronounce it: "DOO- rant"


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## Qapla

Many from Albany, Ga pronounce it "Al-Benny" or "All-Benny ... they will tell you that "all-bah-nee" is in New York


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## TWA904

PVD said:


> Honda is Lincoln Alabama less than 20 miles probably Talladega Speedway is less than 40


I looked up things to do at/near Pell City and Honda and the speedway came up.


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## PVD

Anybody else channeling Mel Blanc?....Train leaving on track 5, for Anaheim, Azusa, and Coo-ca-mongah.......(Cucamonga)


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## DCAKen

PVD said:


> Anybody else channeling Mel Blanc?....Train leaving on track 5, for Anaheim, Azusa, and Coo-ca-mongah.......(Cucamonga)


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