# Airports



## Penn Central

Mine is the St. Louis airport. This was 10 years ago, so a lot might have changed, but the bus-like trams(I have no idea what they are officially called) smelled just awful! I can still remember the scent today. Just for that, I never want to fly in there again.


----------



## Trogdor

*LaGuardia, because it's old, small, and experiences delays of at least a week every time someone turns on a garden hose.

*The old Detroit Metro Airport (before the new Northwest terminal was built), because you had to catch a flight just to get to the other end of the terminal in less than an hour.

*The new Detroit Metro Airport (new Northwest terminal), because that thing is literally a mile long.

As for my opposite opinions:

*Minneapolis-St. Paul: Very nice inside

*Vancouver, BC: When arriving on an international flight, you walk through a very nice nature scene with life-size models of trees, plants, water, etc. There might even be nature audio recordings of animals and running water, but I can't remember (I'd still rather arrive by train; the scenery is better and customs/immigration isn't as much of a hassle when you don't have to compete with four 747-loads of people to get cleared).


----------



## stlouielady

Penn Central said:


> Mine is the St. Louis airport. This was 10 years ago, so a lot might have changed, but the bus-like trams(I have no idea what they are officially called) smelled just awful! I can still remember the scent today. Just for that, I never want to fly in there again.


St Louis Lambert has gotten better since then. It's actually shrunk in size, gate and departure wise, due to American cutting back much of their operations there. Not to say it's perfect, but, I fly out of there 2 to 3 times a month, and those 'stinky' trams are a thing of the past...

Now, the list of airports I dislike. I have several, but, will limit it to a few if the major airports:

-McCarran in Las Vegas--WAY too many people, especially on Sundays and Fridays. I will admit though, any other day is pretty good, and the security lines really have never been much of a problem for as busy as the airport is.

-Chicago O'Hare--got lost once trying to get out of the airport to meet a friend of mine. Hard to make it across the terminal for a short connection also.

-Dallas/Ft Worth--another hard place to catch a short connection. The tram helps though....

-San Juan, Puerto Rico--if you have a late afternoon/evening arrival, hope that you don't have lost luggage! The baggage offices are on the complete opposite side of the airport from the baggage claim.

That's enough for me....


----------



## Guest

LAX

You end up with long walks or bus rides and usually can not change planes without going out so that you have to go through security checks AGAIN.

In particular, the idiocy of having several cross Pacific 747's scheduled for around midnight departures from adjacent gates. Talk about ZOO! Watch 3000 or so people of all ages from all nationalities on the planet trying to go through security carrying all the various airlines allow so they can get on 12 hour plus flights.


----------



## RailFanLNK

O'Headache in CHI. Whoops I mean O'Hare. But this one place was the place that made me sit and think for 14 hours....."there has to be a better way" which then lead me to booking my first trip on Amtrak. The employees of United Customer Pimping were extremely rude too! Whoops...I mean Customer Service! I never raised my voice or was negative in the fact that they were going to get me to my destination 14 hours late and not due to weather.

Al


----------



## battalion51

I would probably have to agree with LaGuardia. It's very cramped, and isn't great to wait around in. Atlanta's not a walk in the park either, especially if you have to change concourses. Talk about a pain in the butt.


----------



## JayPea

O'Hare certainly isn't a great place if you have a short time between connections, but luckily in my experience there I have always had plenty of time between connecting flights.

I had a lousy experience flying into Indianapolis a few years ago. Runways were full of cracks and holes, and it was steaming hot inside the terminal. It was very dirty as well. I'm not picky, normally, about such things, but I was afraid I'd end up with some terminal disease, it was so bad. However, last year I again flew into Indianapolis, and it was a whole different experience. They'd made several improvements, and it wasn't nearly so bad this time.


----------



## MrFSS

JayPea said:


> O'Hare certainly isn't a great place if you have a short time between connections, but luckily in my experience there I have always had plenty of time between connecting flights.
> I had a lousy experience flying into Indianapolis a few years ago. Runways were full of cracks and holes, and it was steaming hot inside the terminal. It was very dirty as well. I'm not picky, normally, about such things, but I was afraid I'd end up with some terminal disease, it was so bad. However, last year I again flew into Indianapolis, and it was a whole different experience. They'd made several improvements, and it wasn't nearly so bad this time.


And, Indianapolis is about to have a brand new terminal in place. *HERE* is a link to another forum with some great pictures and discussion about it all.


----------



## JayPea

MrFSS said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> 
> O'Hare certainly isn't a great place if you have a short time between connections, but luckily in my experience there I have always had plenty of time between connecting flights.
> 
> I had a lousy experience flying into Indianapolis a few years ago. Runways were full of cracks and holes, and it was steaming hot inside the terminal. It was very dirty as well. I'm not picky, normally, about such things, but I was afraid I'd end up with some terminal disease, it was so bad. However, last year I again flew into Indianapolis, and it was a whole different experience. They'd made several improvements, and it wasn't nearly so bad this time.
> 
> 
> 
> And, Indianapolis is about to have a brand new terminal in place. *HERE* is a link to another forum with some great pictures and discussion about it all.
Click to expand...

That's great news! I like flying Southwest, and I've done the Spokane-Indianapolis flight a couple of times when visiting my uncle and aunt in Illinois. So I most likely will be using the new Indianapolis terminal in the future.


----------



## AmtrakWPK

Actually, the worst one I've been to so far was Beirut, in the early 70's, on the way to Bahrain (Navy). I got there in the middle of the night, making a connection to Middle East Airlines. That airport was such complete and utter chaos it brought to mind a quote from _The Caine Mutiny_, "*When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout"*.


----------



## GG-1

Penn Central said:


> -McCarran in Las Vegas--WAY too many people, especially on Sundays and Fridays. I will admit though, any other day is pretty good, and the security lines really have never been much of a problem for as busy as the airport is.


Aloha

Always thought Someone was from he Disney organization due to the way the security cue is set up, at least they realized how to move people. Even at 5:30am they had 4 inspection stations maned.


----------



## GG-1

AmtrakWPK said:


> a quote from _The Caine Mutiny_, "*When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout"*.


Well that's "Veerryy Interesting", that quote is on Page 2 of the Stagehand's Manual.


----------



## AmtrakWPK

That quote was Ensign Willie Keith's impression of the []iCaine[/i]'s crew when they were deploying the minesweeping gear, in Herman Wouk's novel.

"To Willie's eye it was a scene of confusion and panic. He surmised that the _Caine_ crew were unfitted for their jobs and were fulfilling the ancient adage:

_When in danger or in doubt,_

_ Run in circles, scream and shout._"

_The Caine Mutiny_ © 1951, Herman Wouk; Doubleday

He wrote some nice stuff, including _The Winds of War_ and _War and Remembrance_, that were turned into a pretty decent made-for-TV miniseries quite a few years back.


----------



## AmtrakFan

Chicago ORD, it is a pain to find your way around, plus it is always congested. I call it the Chicago Strangler now.


----------



## saxman

No one has mentioned JFK yet. I'm based there, and everyday its a zoo. Normally number 30 or 40 for takeoff. The Delta terminal has mice and is falling apart, low ceilings, and how they made 2 gates into about 20 regional jet gates. I can never get through the crowds laying in the walkways, trying to get to the flight I'm working. I really hope JFK gets slotted. I've fly regularly into LGA, BOS, DCA and those airports are a dream! BOS has their stuff together especially.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

I don't know about most hated, but my most feared airport right now is LAX. I'm flying outta there to the gathering in Chicago. No sooner had I booked my flight than there was a spate of radar breakdowns, computer SNAFUs and, worst of all in my view, "runway incursions." That's FAA-speak for near misses on the ground, as in one plane starting to cross a runway from a taxiway while another plane is taking off on that runway. In one recent instance it was reported that there may have been as little as 30 feet between planes in an incursion situation. YIKES!

On the flip side, Burbank (Bob Hope) is a breeze. Amtrak and Metrolink stop right there. A five minute walk to the terminal from the platform, and if you're burdened with luggage you can call a free shuttle. For aviation buffs (like me), Burbank is the old Lockheed Field, and the terminal has exhibits and reminders of its past all around. Outside are models on poles of an SR-71 Blackbird and an F-117 Nighthawk (stealth "fighter" which is really a light bomber). As you walk into the main terminal there is a Lockheed Constellation (the last production piston airliner) model suspended from the ceiling. And along the walkways are numerous photos and artifacts, including a special exhibit dedicated to the P-38 Lightning. Security is a relative walk in the park, and the only serious crowding I've ever seen (once) was due to weather problems which delayed flight operations.


----------



## gswager

As a native southern CA, I agree with you that LAX is a headache! I generally try to avoid it, esp with traffic. I usually take ONT (Ontario), but my folks started to move away from that area. Burbank is a very interesting airport that has no bridge(?) to the airplane. It's a breeze because it's small. It cannot be expanded due to limited space.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

gswager said:


> As a native southern CA, I agree with you that LAX is a headache! I generally try to avoid it, esp with traffic. I usually take ONT (Ontario), but my folks started to move away from that area. Burbank is a very interesting airport that has no bridge(?) to the airplane. It's a breeze because it's small. It cannot be expanded due to limited space.


I believe those "bridges" to the planes are called jetways, but yeah, Burbank doesn't have 'em. Neither does Air Force 1. You walk out on the tarmac and climb a mobile staircase affair to board. It really makes boarding faster because they can board from front and rear doors simultaneously. In the case of the DC-9 family of jets the rear door is a ladder-like stairs contraption that drops out of the tail. Same with Boeing 727s (rare these days), on which the rear door is sometimes known as the "D.B. Cooper door."

It's my understanding that the nonexpansion of Burbank is due more to ferocious political opposition than a lack of space. Just to get the OK for a remodel of the terminal the airport authorities had to promise not to try to expand for a number of years. That's fine with me - I like it the way it is.

Never been to Ontario; or Palmdale, for that matter.


----------



## XNWA

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> gswager said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a native southern CA, I agree with you that LAX is a headache! I generally try to avoid it, esp with traffic. I usually take ONT (Ontario), but my folks started to move away from that area. Burbank is a very interesting airport that has no bridge(?) to the airplane. It's a breeze because it's small. It cannot be expanded due to limited space.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe those "bridges" to the planes are called jetways, but yeah, Burbank doesn't have 'em. Neither does Air Force 1. You walk out on the tarmac and climb a mobile staircase affair to board. It really makes boarding faster because they can board from front and rear doors simultaneously. In the case of the DC-9 family of jets the rear door is a ladder-like stairs contraption that drops out of the tail. Same with Boeing 727s (rare these days), on which the rear door is sometimes known as the "D.B. Cooper door."
> 
> It's my understanding that the nonexpansion of Burbank is due more to ferocious political opposition than a lack of space. Just to get the OK for a remodel of the terminal the airport authorities had to promise not to try to expand for a number of years. That's fine with me - I like it the way it is.
> 
> Never been to Ontario; or Palmdale, for that matter.
Click to expand...

Jetways can also be used to board the front and rear doors simultaneously. Not all models of the DC-9's have the rear airstairs.


----------



## RailFanLNK

I was at the Burbank airport about 1 1/2 years ago. Reminded me alot of LNK's airport. I booked that airport to avoid LAX and was so happy that I did. That trip I missed not one but two flights out of SFO due to traffic on the highway and even left 5 hours before our flight from Santa Rosa. That was when I realized I would go completely beserk in California if I lived there any longer than...well...two weeks! :lol: The traffic and the "sitting in traffic" was something that I never experience here and we were so glad that we had a close friend who lived in LA for 20 years that set us straight about "mapquest" saying it was going to take "25 minutes" to get from point A to point B. He would shake his head and go, "California is not about how long it will take you miles wise to get somewhere, it all depends on the traffic and how long the traffic takes to get you somewhere." I loved the Burbank airport and I was so new to Amtrak that I didn't know Amtrak even served that area.


----------



## George Harris

rail rookie said:


> That trip I missed not one but two flights out of SFO due to traffic on the highway and even left 5 hours before our flight from Santa Rosa. That was when I realized I would go completely beserk in California if I lived there any longer than...well...two weeks! :lol:


Which is why we need the high speed rail, more commuter rail, more short corridors, more everything on rails in Calif.


----------



## The Metropolitan

I didn't care for Phoenix when I flew in and out of there this spring - the multiple terminals thing is confusing enough, and walking from one terminal to another seems like it is discouraged, as there is little in the way of signage to get your bearings straight. The icing on the cake was on my arrival, when I waited 20 minutes for the city bus, only to find when it arrived that I was at the stop for the bus heading OPPOSITE the direction I wanted to go, and needed to be on the other wall of the terminal.

Atlanta was not too bad to me for a multi-terminal Airport, as they were very helpful in pointing you in how to get to the right terminal for your connecting flight, and the Security was at a main entry terminal which meant no need to re-enter it.

I guess of all the unfamiliar airports I've travelled through, San Jose seemed to run the smoothest on the day I was there. A little tricky to get your bearings when you first enter for the first time by land, but the lines were quite short, and the place gave off an efficient but polite air to it.


----------



## JayPea

I've flown in and out of Phoenix before and didn't have too much trouble. I was on Southwest in and out of Phoenix so didn't have to walk very far to wait for the flight out. So I avoided problems that way. The worst problem was that I'm diabetic and the gate I was waiting at to fly back out of Phoenix was next to Cinnabon. :angry:  :lol: I think my blood sugar level doubled just from the smell of the Cinnabons!!! :lol:


----------



## Steve4031

The Belize City airport in Belize is pretty bad. I flew out of there on TACA, which is also pretty bad, and there computers were down. So they could not issue or print boarding passes. They had open boarding, so I lined myself up by the door and was ready to be the first to board the aircraft. Naturally, some security witched decided to search my bag. By the time she was done, I was last, and I was pissed.


----------



## GG-1

Steve4031 said:


> Naturally, some security witched decided to search my bag.


Did She claim to be "GOD" :lol:


----------



## WhoozOn1st

Steve4031 said:


> The Belize City airport in Belize is pretty bad. I flew out of there on TACA, which is also pretty bad, and there computers were down. So they could not issue or print boarding passes. They had open boarding, so I lined myself up by the door and was ready to be the first to board the aircraft. Naturally, some security witched decided to search my bag. By the time she was done, I was last, and I was pissed.


Last time I was in Belize the country was concerned about an imminent invasion by neighboring Guatemala. The whole army - all three guys - was lined up at the border with machine guns. "F***ing Guats!!" "F***ing..." And that's where the Guatemalan threat ended, because the Guats couldn't decide among themselves what to call the Belize guys. Belizers? Belizians? Belizianos? Belizonians? So back to the barracks and the drawing board. Invasion threat ended by lack of language.


----------



## tp49

Worst airport is LaGuardia because of the short runways and that when there's even a threat of bad weather the delays pile up quickly. Close runner up is Atlanta because whenever I fly through there I'm two concourses away from my gate, the tram is usually not running and the moving sidewalks are not moving.


----------



## WhoozOn1st

tp49 said:


> Worst airport is LaGuardia because of the short runways and that when there's even a threat of bad weather the delays pile up quickly. Close runner up is Atlanta because whenever I fly through there I'm two concourses away from my gate, the tram is usually not running and the moving sidewalks are not moving.


Horrible La Guardia experience: Final approach, night. Moments from landing the throttle was punched. The plane banked away at a sickening angle - rolled sideways - as the engines spooled up - I was sure we were falling out of the sky - and outside the window, looking almost straight down, I could see that we had almost landed on top of a plane taking off from the same runway. The passengers were only told that we had missed the approach and had to go around. But I saw what had happened.

We landed safely on the second go 'round - wouldn't be telling this story otherwise.

You know how the pilots sometimes stand by the cockpit as you deplane, and say "Buh bye." The pilots of this flight did that, but they were drenched in sweat and clearly agitated.

I was drenched in sweat and agitated too. Saw what happened. Thought I was watching my own death.

Shook the captain's hand on my way off and whispered "We almost bought it back there, didn't we?" "Yeah. Sssh." "You did some good flying. I saw. Thank you." "Buh bye." He obviously didn't wanna talk about it.


----------



## edding

Dulles!! Hands down. Impossible to get to by public transportation. Getting there by car from DC is a nightmare. And within the terminal itself the cargo hold people movers are strange in a not so wonderful way. Now I know what it's like to be carried and unloaded from a cargo/container ship. Avoid if at all possible! DCA and BWI are much preferable.


----------



## George Harris

edding said:


> Dulles!! Hands down. Impossible to get to by public transportation. Getting there by car from DC is a nightmare.


There is or used to be a bus route to Dulles from West Falls Church WMATA station. Otherwise, I agree with you completely. A WMATA line to it is currently in late planning or early construction. Will be mostly in the median of the Dulles highway, which was built to carry it from the beginning. The space for the turnouts to the Dulles Branch was in the initial construction of the WMATA line in the I-66 median, including the conduits for the jumper cables to the third rail.


----------



## Penn Central

George Harris said:


> edding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dulles!! Hands down. Impossible to get to by public transportation. Getting there by car from DC is a nightmare.
> 
> 
> 
> There is or used to be a bus route to Dulles from West Falls Church WMATA station. Otherwise, I agree with you completely. A WMATA line to it is currently in late planning or early construction. Will be mostly in the median of the Dulles highway, which was built to carry it from the beginning. The space for the turnouts to the Dulles Branch was in the initial construction of the WMATA line in the I-66 median, including the conduits for the jumper cables to the third rail.
Click to expand...

The planning is basically done, and the political will to build and fund it is here. What we are waiting for is the $900 million the FTA more or less promised us, and is now clearly trying to stall rather than actually give. Still, as a Virginian, I'd much rather fly out of Dulles then BWI. In Virginia, BWI is on the other end of the earth, since we either have to cross the Potomac on the Beltway :angry: , or cut through the center of D.C :angry: . Of course, nothing beats DCA...the world's most perfect airport  ...


----------



## had8ley

WhoozOn1st999 said:


> tp49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst airport is LaGuardia because of the short runways and that when there's even a threat of bad weather the delays pile up quickly. Close runner up is Atlanta because whenever I fly through there I'm two concourses away from my gate, the tram is usually not running and the moving sidewalks are not moving.
> 
> 
> 
> Horrible La Guardia experience: Final approach, night. Moments from landing the throttle was punched. The plane banked away at a sickening angle - rolled sideways - as the engines spooled up - I was sure we were falling out of the sky - and outside the window, looking almost straight down, I could see that we had almost landed on top of a plane taking off from the same runway. The passengers were only told that we had missed the approach and had to go around. But I saw what had happened.
> 
> We landed safely on the second go 'round - wouldn't be telling this story otherwise.
> 
> You know how the pilots sometimes stand by the cockpit as you deplane, and say "Buh bye." The pilots of this flight did that, but they were drenched in sweat and clearly agitated.
> 
> I was drenched in sweat and agitated too. Saw what happened. Thought I was watching my own death.
> 
> Shook the captain's hand on my way off and whispered "We almost bought it back there, didn't we?" "Yeah. Sssh." "You did some good flying. I saw. Thank you." "Buh bye." He obviously didn't wanna talk about it.
Click to expand...

I can't even get on a plane without the walls caving in. I went to a DOE seminar in Silver Spring, MD last summer and thought I would sneak out of town via BWI. WRONG !!! I went to show the rent a security guard my ticket and she grabbed the second segment ticket that was from Atlanta to New Orleans. The person was a foreigner and could not even speak understandable English. She kept screaming until a supervisor and two SWAT looking ***** types come running over. They actually had to get an interpreter to ask her what was wrong while the ***** corralled me into a dark corner. "He at wrong airport ! " is what the interpreter came back with. I showed them my ticket from BWI to Atlanta and looked at me like I was was the man from Mars. I'm sure our little lady is still standing her post screwing up other people's days.


----------

