# Heritage Train consists



## Amtrak Kid (Sep 30, 2006)

Hello,

Could someone tell me the different consist variants from 1980-1990s which would be just about all heritage equipment.

Thanks

Corey


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## Foodman53 (Oct 1, 2006)

A typical "pre-Amfleet" consist for the Silver Meteor/Silver Star/Champion would have been something of this nature:

2 SDP40F Locomotives

Baggage/Dorm

8 to 10 56 seat coaches

2 Diners

Lounge Car

3 10/6 "Heritage" Sleepers

The former ACL/SCL New York-St. Petersburg "Champion" would also include a "Slumbercoach".....however, this car would usually appear behind the Baggage/Dorm, upfront, with the heavier sleepers at the end of the consist.

Up until the full Amfleet conversion(late 70's...early 80's), the "Silver Meteor" consist carried the old Seaboard "Sun-Lounge" about midways the consist. I think that the round end observation disappeared about 1974/75. The "Silver Star" was actually two separate consists(NYP-STP & NYP-MIA) joined together at the diners at Auburndale, Florida.

Bill Haithcoat can give more information regarding the "Southern Crescent", but I do recall it having a sleeping car with a "drawing room" and a shower. Also, all of these trains featured a fried chicken dinner in the diner!!

Hope this was helpful.

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53


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## Guest_had8ley_* (Oct 1, 2006)

Foodman53 said:


> Bill Haithcoat can give more information regarding the "Southern Crescent", but I do recall it having a sleeping car with a "drawing room" and a shower. Also, all of these trains featured a fried chicken dinner in the diner!!
> Hope this was helpful.
> 
> From the "Florida Funnel"
> ...



Indeed it did have a special room called a "Master Room" complete with it's own shower. At the time it was the only sleeping accomodation to have a private shower on a public train; although it was non-Amtrak at the time. There were two drawing rooms in addition to the Master Room. This car was added northbound and deleted southbound in Atlanta on the tri-weekly days the train ran to New Orleans (and there was a time that the train terminated in Birmingham four days a week also.). This was a lounge sleeper and was a beautiful car. I'm sure someone has the names but I think they all had Silver in them because of the shiny stainless skin on the exterior. The Crescent also had a baggage dormitory car that went all the way to New Orleans. There was a dome observation parlor car that _only_ ran between New Orleans and Atlanta three days a week. It was a nice car but was a lightweight behind the 10 and 6 sleepers. One of the most obvious changes is just the Viewliner cars; the diners just keep rolling and get re-furbished when they get dreary looking. There was a long cut of cars added and deleted to The Southern's Crescent #'s 1 & 2 at the Peachtree station in Atlanta and in earlier years there were no coaches on the train between Charlotte and Atlanta. Now an ALL sleeper train would be a sight today...


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## Amtrak Kid (Oct 1, 2006)

i was meaning in the F40ph days, like Post HEP.

Thanks

Corey


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## JAChooChoo (Oct 1, 2006)

This is earlier than you asked for, from Robert Wayner's Amtrak Consists for December 1976:

81/91 & 82/92 Silver Star NYP-MIA/STP

NYP-WAS 1-E60 or 2 GG-1s

WAS-MIA SDP40

WAS-STP SDP40

[train splits at Auburndale]

BOS-MIA Baggage [bulk Mail] [from 67 and to 66 at NYP]

NYP-MIA Baggage-Dormitory

NYP-MIA 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom

NYP-MIA 6 Double Bedroom-Lounge

NYP-MIA Diner

NYP-MIA Coach 44 seat [4]

NYP-MIA Coach 54 seat

NYP-MIA Bar-Lounge "Pub"

NYP-STP Galley-Lounge [ex-PRR "Congressional" Parlor car]

NYP-STP Coach 44 seat [4]

NYP-STP Coach [54 seat]

NYP-STP 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom

======================================================

83 & 84 Silver Meteor NYP-MIA

85 & 86 Champion NYP-STP

[identical consists except 85 & 86 carried a Baggage Mail Car]

NYP-WAS E-60 or GG-1

WAS-MIA or STP 2-SDP40

Baggage-Dorm

Coach 44 seat [4]

Diner

Coach 44 seat [3]

Bar-Lounge

Diner

5 Double Bedroom-Lounge

10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom

7 Double Bedroom-2 Drawing Room

Slumbercoach [24/8]

======================================================

Amtrak 171 Southern Crescent [Thru cars only, Southern consist not listed]

NYP-NOL ATK Coach 54 seat [operates MoWeFr]

NYP-ATL SR 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates TuThSaSu]

NYP-NOL SR 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates MoWeFr]

NYP-LAX ATK 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates MoWeFr]

NYP-ATL SR Coach 48 seat

NYP-WAS ATK Galley-Lounge [ex-PRR "Congressional" Parlor car]

Amtrak 172 Southern Crescent [Thru cars only, Southern consist not listed]

NOL-NYP ATK Coach 54 seat [operates from WAS TuThSa]

ATL-NYP SR 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates from WAS MoWeFr]

NOL-NYP SR 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates from WAS TuThSa]

LAX-NYP ATK 10 Roomette-6 Double Bedroom [operates from WAS TuThSa]

ATL-NYP SR Coach 48 seat

NYP-WAS ATK Galley-Lounge [ex-PRR "Congressional" Parlor car]


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2006)

Amtrak Kid said:


> i was meaning in the F40ph days, like Post HEP.
> Thanks
> 
> Corey



I am talking FP 40 days. You might want to ask someone the exact date but the Southern was only one of a handful of railroads (three if I'm correct~ Rio Grande and Rock Island come to mind) that did not give their passenger service to Amtrak. The Southern (Norfolk Southern today) did not give up the "Southern Crescebt" until the late 70's. I believe it was around February of '79 but I'm sure someone has the exact date. So you could still see A units (usually four units in consist~ 2 A's and 2 B's sandwiched in the middle) pulling a domed train between New Orleans and Atlanta on it's way to Washington where Amtrak cut off the A units and usually put at least one GG-1 on the point.


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## George Harris (Oct 2, 2006)

Actually, that would be four "A" units. sometimes back to back pairs, sometimes a back to bak pair in the middle with the end units elephant style. Southern did not own any "E's" in B units. Not sure if they ever owned any passenger "B" units of any kind. It was the rare Southern passenger train, if there was ever any, that ever got more than 2 units until the service was down to little more than the few out of Washington.


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2006)

George Harris said:


> Actually, that would be four "A" units. sometimes back to back pairs, sometimes a back to bak pair in the middle with the end units elephant style. Southern did not own any "E's" in B units. Not sure if they ever owned any passenger "B" units of any kind. It was the rare Southern passenger train, if there was ever any, that ever got more than 2 units until the service was down to little more than the few out of Washington.


Well George we rode on two Southern Crescents in '76 that had 26 cars into NYP. Four E's out of New Orleans all the way to Washington and the return trips had four units also. You are right about the B units.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Oct 2, 2006)

Guest said:


> Amtrak Kid said:
> 
> 
> > i was meaning in the F40ph days, like Post HEP.
> ...



One other road which did not give up its passenger service was the Georgia Railroad. It turned its passenger service intoa "mixed train"--a freight train which allowed passengers, sometimes in a separate car, sometimes in the caboose. That is a horse of an entirely different color, another whole story unto itself--having nothing to do with the present topic---I just mention it to round out the list of railraods which did not join Amtrak.


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## Foodman53 (Oct 2, 2006)

The "F40PH..post F40PH" era for the "Silver Service" (80's-90's) would have found a consist much similar to the following:

2 F40PH

Baggage/Dorm

6 to 8 Amfleet I Coaches

2 Diners(reduced to 1 by the 1990's)

Amlounge/Cafe Car

3 10/6 Heritage Sleepers

It's only been since the introduction of the P40/P42 locomotive series(and...probably shorter consists) that the sleepers, now Viewliners, have been placed at the head-end of the consist.

Now, also in this time frame, Amtrak "monkeyed" with the food services by having buffet cars rather than full diners, etc.....but, the above consist is pretty representative of the time frame.

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53


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## Bill Haithcoat (Oct 2, 2006)

Amtrak Kid---for some reason I find myself super super swamped at work this morning(where my computer is).

If, toward the end of the day, you need further help with Crescent consists,let us know, give me a more specific year and perhaps I can look something up at home tonight and let you know tomorrow.

My memories (however challenged they are this morning while at work) of the Crescent go way way back, to some of the things others have alreadyalluded to (the dome, the master room with shower, etc,etc) .

Not sure if there is anything more I can add. But let me know.


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## JAChooChoo (Oct 2, 2006)

Guest_had8ley_* said:


> Indeed it did have a special room called a "Master Room" complete with it's own shower. At the time it was the only sleeping accomodation to have a private shower on a public train; although it was non-Amtrak at the time. There were two drawing rooms in addition to the Master Room. This was a lounge sleeper and was a beautiful car. I'm sure someone has the names but I think they all had Silver in them because of the shiny stainless skin on the exterior.


*Actually they carried the train name:*

*Crescent City*

*Crescent Harbor*

*Crescent Moon*

*Crescent Shores*

* *

*Interestingly, by 1979 they were listed as 3 Double Bedrooms*


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## Amtrak Kid (Oct 2, 2006)

Im looking for something around 86 maybe, anything from there up as the Pre HEP days dont inerest me really. Im looking for the crescent that had the diner at the very end, the train was all heritage as i remember, a baggage and baggage dorm with a ton of coaches. If someone could specify the car order that'd be great. What im also looking for is consists i can use with my Amtrak Heritage Pack for Auran Trainz.

Corey


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## Guest_had8ley_* (Oct 3, 2006)

JAChooChoo said:


> Guest_had8ley_* said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed it did have a special room called a "Master Room" complete with it's own shower. At the time it was the only sleeping accomodation to have a private shower on a public train; although it was non-Amtrak at the time. There were two drawing rooms in addition to the Master Room. This was a lounge sleeper and was a beautiful car. I'm sure someone has the names but I think they all had Silver in them because of the shiny stainless skin on the exterior.
> ...


"Choo-Choo",

You are so right. I was thinking of the Silver Solarium and other observation cars on the California Zephre... thanks for the update.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Oct 3, 2006)

Amtrak Kid said:


> Im looking for something around 86 maybe, anything from there up as the Pre HEP days dont inerest me really. Im looking for the crescent that had the diner at the very end, the train was all heritage as i remember, a baggage and baggage dorm with a ton of coaches. If someone could specify the car order that'd be great. What im also looking for is consists i can use with my Amtrak Heritage Pack for Auran Trainz.
> Corey


Once again, I am at work, without any timetables. The only memory I have of the diner being at the rear would be south of Atl or maybe south of BHM

Could have been when the Gulf Breeze operated.(don't know from memory if it was operation in 1986 or not) But it combined with the Crescent from NYC to BHM. At BHM, the two split,with the lounge going to Mobile on the GB, the diner going to NOL on the Crescent.

Such a Crescent would have had about 4 coaches,one sleeper and diner, on the BHm to NOL portion.More sleepers and a slumbercoach from NYC to ATL. When the GB first went into service a sleeper ran all the way from NYC to Mobile, but that did not last.

I cannot imagine the diner ever being on the rear of the train further north than that.


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## Amtrak Kid (Oct 3, 2006)

http://www.railpixs.com/amt2/tn_AMT266_Cre...a_Dec85_jpg.jpg this is indeed the consist im looking for. Thanks

Corey


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## had8ley (Oct 8, 2006)

Amtrak Kid said:


> http://www.railpixs.com/amt2/tn_AMT266_Cre...a_Dec85_jpg.jpg this is indeed the consist im looking for. Thanks
> Corey




Just to add to the story of the Gulf Breeze. Yes, the diner was on the hind end out of New Orleans going north and it usually had flat spots from being the heaviest car in the consist from New Orleans to Birmingham. One of the most idiotic moves Amtrak made at the time, when the lounge car went to Mobile, was to block off the two rear diner, that went on to New Orleans, tables for an attendant with a "snack box." They had some candy bars and snacks but not enough to justify taking up eight potential dining seats. They also blocked off two tables at the other end for the crew so you automatically went to a 24 seat diner. It wasn't bad in the winter time but when groups travelled you almost had to fight your way into the diner after walking through the sleeper if you were not already booked into the sleeper. The other sad part was when the lone engine died the Southern had to put on a freight engine which never had HEP or steam. Spent a very cold trip in a 10 and 6 from Tuscaloosa all the way to New Orleans but the freight engineer did a better job of train handling than the Amtrak engineer...


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## RailThunder (Oct 9, 2006)

It looks like you found the consist you were looking for. The Florida "Silver Service" trains basically went from Heritage coaches to Amfleet II coaches in 1982 when the Silver Star was converted over to HEP. Prior to that time the Silver Meteor had Heritage fleet consists starting in about 1980-81. The Star never did go Heritage it went from steam heat over to the Amfleet II consists with heritage diners, sleepers, bag dorms, baggages etc.

The Florida train consist varied a bit in the 80s with addition of buffet dining service and there were different consist positioning such as the sleeper on the rear of the Silver Meteor (St. Pete/Tampa after 1983) side of the train. Generally the Silver Meteor of the 1980s had an F40PH and 9 cars out of Miami and the Tampa side had 7 making for a 16 car train north of Jacksonville where they were combined. The Silver Star also was a big train north of Auburndale, Florida where it was combined.


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## Amtrak Kid (Oct 10, 2006)

hmm, how about a 1992 silver star consist?

Thanks

Corey


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2006)

Heres the crescent-gulf breeze consist as best as i can remember it

1 F40ph was-moe

2 F40ph was-nol

these cars went to new orleans

1 MHC

1 baggage dorm

1 sleeper

1 diner

1 lounge

3 or 4 coaches

the next 4 cars went to mobile

2 coaches

1 lounge

1 10-6 sleeper

these cars went as far as atlanta

1 or 2 coaches

2 10-6 sleepers

1 slumbercoach sleeper

2 mhc ( 1 mhc from nyp and 1 was from was)

sometimes the crescent had a full baggage car and no MHC in the neworleans section also the atlanta

section returned north on train 20 that evening after spending the day in the yard there.


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## Amtrak Kid (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks! you and everyone else, that info is just what i need!


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## Danielsmusic (May 14, 2007)

I seem to remember mid-80's consists arriving in Miami being:

2 F40s

1 Heritage Baggage

1 Heritage Baggage-Dorm

1 Heritage 10-6 sleeper

4 Amfleet II coaches

1 Heritage lounge (Ex-Pennsy)

2 Heritage Diners

2 Heritage 56-seat coaches

3 Heritage 10-6 sleepers

3 Amfleet II coaches

1 Heritage lounge

I have a few pictures of the Silver Service trains, and most consists seem to look like this. In some of my pictures, it also appears that there were sometimes less Amcans and only one diner.


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## NativeSon5859 (May 14, 2007)

You know, I used to take the Crescent from NOL to MS (usually MEI, sometimes HBG) numerous times when growing up. Every time, the train generally had 1 to 2 F40's, one baggage car, one crew dorm, three to four Heritage coaches, 1 lounge (usually Heritage, later Amfleet), 2 10+6 sleepers, and the Diner...which was almost always at the very end of the train with few exceptions.

When the Gulf Breeze started it really dissapointed me (hey, it was easy to dissapoint a 12 year old raifan)because I used to love to spend time in the Lounge car and well...no more lounge running down to NOL, just the Diner, and as someone said previously, they sold chips and candy from a couple of baskets set up on a table in the Dining car.

My best Crescent memory was when we took (not knowingly, of course) one of the first trains out of NOL pulled by a then brand new P40. In MEI, the Conductor let me climb up into the cab for a minute and I got to say hello to the Engineers.


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## Danielsmusic (May 25, 2007)

JAChooChoo said:


> This is earlier than you asked for, from Robert Wayner's Amtrak Consists for December 1976:
> 81/91 & 82/92 Silver Star NYP-MIA/STP
> 
> NYP-WAS 1-E60 or 2 GG-1s
> ...



Do you have any of the 1983-1990 consists?


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## Fatman123 (Sep 26, 2007)

Foodman53 said:


> The "F40PH..post F40PH" era for the "Silver Service" (80's-90's) would have found a consist much similar to the following:
> 2 F40PH
> 
> Baggage/Dorm
> ...



From the early 90's, the train did look like that, except that there were Amfleet II coaches, not Amfleet I. After the train went HEP, but before it stopped splitting in two, the consist was usually:

F40PH

F40PH

Heritage Fleet Baggage

Heritage Fleet Baggage/Dorm

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Café

Heritage Fleet Buffet Diner

Heritage Fleet Diner

Heritage Fleet 10/6 Sleeper

Heritage Fleet 10/6 Sleeper (The Star had a 24/8 Slumbercoach intsead of this car)

Heritage Fleet 10/6 Sleeper

Heritage Fleet Lounge

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Coach

Amfleet II Coach

Also, depending on the season, the Meteor could have as many as five 10/6 sleepers. Both the Star and the Meteor could also have four coaches at the end and five at the beginning if it were a "heavier" season.


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## had8ley (Sep 26, 2007)

NativeSon5859 said:


> My best Crescent memory was when we took (not knowingly, of course) one of the first trains out of NOL pulled by a then brand new P40. In MEI, the Conductor let me climb up into the cab for a minute and I got to say hello to the Engineers.


I promise you that would not happen today especially after 9/11. You indeed were a lucky lad. The conductor must have been Ed Chestnut~ a real railroader who has since retired.


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## ConsistMan (Sep 30, 2007)

Amtrak Kid said:


> Hello,
> Could someone tell me the different consist variants from 1980-1990s which would be just about all heritage equipment.
> 
> Thanks
> ...





Amtrak Kid said:


> Hello,
> Could someone tell me the different consist variants from 1980-1990s which would be just about all heritage equipment.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Lake Shore Limited:

2 F40s

Baggage

Slumbercoach

10/6 Sleeper

3 Coaches (sometimes Heritage, sometimes Amfleet II)

Amfleet II Cafe

Diner

3 Coaches (sometimes Heritage, sometimes Amfleet II)

10/6 Sleeper

Baggage-Dorm

Broadway Limited:

2 F40s

Any number of head-end cars

Baggage

4 Heritage Coaches (during the summer, 5 coaches, with one set having Amfleet IIs)

Amfleet II Café (during the summer, one set had a Heritage lounge)

Diner (during the summer, one set had an Amfleet II café instead of a diner)

Slumbercoach

10/6 Sleeper (during the summer, a second 10/6 was added)

Capitol Limited:

2 F40s (depending on the number of head-end cars, sometimes a third unit was added)

Any number of head-end cars

Baggage

Baggage

Heritage Coach

2 Amfleet II Coaches

Dome Coach

Heritage Lounge (3106-3112)

Diner

2 10/6 Sleepers

Cardinal (1991-1995):

2 F40s

Baggage-Dorm

3 Amfleet II Coaches

St. Louis Lounge

Amfleet II Café

10/6 Sleeper

Slumbercoach

Cardinal (1987-1991):

1 F40

Baggage

Slumbercoach

10/6 Sleeper

Diner

Amfleet II Café

5 Amfleet II Coaches

City of New Orleans (1984-1994):

2 F40s

Baggage

3 Heritage Coaches

Ex-Pennsy Lounge

Dome Coach

Heritage Coach

Amfleet II Café

10/6 Sleeper

St. Louis Baggage-Dorm

Crescent:

2 F40s

Baggage-Dorm

4 Heritage Coaches

10/6 Sleeper

Diner

Lounge (3106-3112)

3 Heritage Coaches

10/6 Sleeper

Slumbercoach

Auto Train:

2, 3, or 4 Units (usually Pooches, F40s, or P40s, but occasionally ex-GO units)

10/6 Sleeper (used for the crew)

11 Bedroom Sleeper

10/6 Sleeper

Ex-ATSF Full Dome

10/6 Sleeper

11 Bedroom Sleeper

10/6 Sleeper

Dome Coach

2 Amfleet II Coaches

Diner

Chair Car (Ex-smoothside Heritage Coach)

Buffet-Diner

Diner

Super Dome

4 Amfleet II Coaches

20-ish Auto Carriers

Montrealer:

2 F40s

St. Louis Baggage

2 10/6 Sleepers

Lounge (3111)

3 Amfleet II Coaches (when Amfleets unavailable, Heritage coaches were used)

Night Owl:

F40

Baggage

3 Amfleet Coaches (usually IIs, but sometimes Is)

Amfleet II Café (usually II, but sometimes I)

10/6 Sleeper


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## Donctor (Aug 1, 2009)

ConsistMan said:


> Crescent:2 F40s
> 
> Baggage-Dorm
> 
> ...


I believe there was a baggage car on the end that ran WAS-ATL.



ConsistMan said:


> Auto Train:2, 3, or 4 Units (usually Pooches, F40s, or P40s, but occasionally ex-GO units)
> 
> 10/6 Sleeper (used for the crew)
> 
> ...


And when the train got to Sanford, the consist (minus the Auto Carriers) was reversed. Also, when the ATSF Full Dome was out for service, the sleeper section ran without a dome.



ConsistMan said:


> Montrealer:2 F40s
> 
> St. Louis Baggage
> 
> ...


Pre-1992, it was:

2 F40

1 Heritage Baggage

2 Heritage 10/6 Sleeper

1 Heritage Lounge

4 Amfleet II Coach

Post-1992, excepting Friday-Sunday nights, it was:

1 F40

1 Heritage Baggage

1 Heritage 10/6 Sleeper

1 Heritage (sometimes Amfleet II) Lounge

3 Amfleet II Coach



ConsistMan said:


> Night Owl:F40
> 
> Baggage
> 
> ...


Actually, it was Amfleet I coaches, and there were usually 4-5 of them. The café was also Amfleet I. It basically ran as a corridor train, but with a 10/6 sleeper on the end.


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