# Amtrak travel insurance



## Rasputin (Feb 15, 2019)

I keep hearing people say that Amtrak travel insurance is no good or is not a good buy and that other travel insurance is better but I have never seen an explanation of this.  Since I know nothing about travel insurance can someone please explain why Amtrak travel insurance is not a good buy and if so, what travel insurance would be better.  Thanks in advance.


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## TinCan782 (Feb 15, 2019)

You will find this discussion in cruise conversations as well. The general consensus is to not use the carrier's insurance offering (which is through a third party anyway) and seek out your own. There are online companies out here that, once you provide trip costs, etc., will provide a selection of several insurance companies with coverage and premiums. From that information you could make your own purchasing decision.

Amtrak uses Allianz Global Assistance which you can go to them on your own and compare.


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## cpotisch (Feb 15, 2019)

Rasputin said:


> I keep hearing people say that Amtrak travel insurance is no good or is not a good buy and that other travel insurance is better but I have never seen an explanation of this.  Since I know nothing about travel insurance can someone please explain why Amtrak travel insurance is not a good buy and if so, what travel insurance would be better.  Thanks in advance.


The travel insurance Amtrak sells (provided by Allianz) has A LOT of restrictions on it. Probably the most problematic restriction is that you can't just cancel and refund your ticket for any reason. It needs to be one of these:



> Trip cancellation coverage gives cash back for prepaid, nonrefundable payments if you have to cancel your trip for one of the reasons covered by your policy. *Some reasons include sudden covered medical emergencies, financial default of a covered airline, cruise line or tour operator, employer termination, terrorist incidents, and jury duty. *Some reasons for cancellation aren't covered, such as changing your mind about taking a trip or other things not named in your policy/certificate of insurance.  Not all plans include trip cancellation coverage.  Please see the Certificate of Insurance/Policy for terms, conditions, and exclusions.  If you cancel your trip for a covered reason, you must notify your travel supplier(s) within 72 hours of the cancellation.


And if memory serves, it was actually mentioned in another thread here that Amtrak themselves will give a full refund for any ticket cancelled due to medical reasons, which really minimizes any benefits of the Allianz plan.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 15, 2019)

cpotisch said:


> The travel insurance Amtrak sells (provided by Allianz) has A LOT of restrictions on it﻿


I'm currently shopping for a travel insurance policy for a cruise this Summer.  My travel agent has suggested Allianz because it is a bit more inexpensive than a Company I have used in the past.  Reading the section dealing with Medical Coverage during one's trip, there is wording that concerns me if a dispute might arise between the insurance company and the customer if a medical claim is filed.  The wording keeps stressing _medically necessary_ for a doctor to be seen.  Would the insurance company's opinion of what is medically necessary agree with my opinion of that?


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## JRR (Feb 15, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> I'm currently shopping for a travel insurance policy for a cruise this Summer.  My travel agent has suggested Allianz because it is a bit more inexpensive than a Company I have used in the past.  Reading the section dealing with Medical Coverage during one's trip, there is wording that concerns me if a dispute might arise between the insurance company and the customer if a medical claim is filed.  The wording keeps stressing _medically necessary_ for a doctor to be seen.  Would the insurance company's opinion of what is medically necessary agree with my opinion of that?


We had a great experience with Transamerica. I don’t know how they rank in cost but their service when we needed it on a Rail/cruise was outstanding.


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## me_little_me (Feb 15, 2019)

The reason why Amtrak's insurance is not worth it is simply Amtrak's cancellation policy. Unlike a cruise or a flight where they refund nothing or very little if you cancel w/o insurance, Amtrak's cancel policy is damn good so why buy insurance?


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## JRR (Feb 16, 2019)

The deal with a rail/cruise is really on the crude side. Covers illness and transportation costs in out of the way places. In our case it was the rail part that was messed up? And though Amtrak fully refunded, Transamerica immediately acknowledged coverage and their travel people were outstanding in arranging alternate transportation to the departure port including arranging for hotel accommodations and follow up to make sure everything went ok. I have never used travel insurance for just rail travel except when included with a cruise.


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## Sauve850 (Feb 16, 2019)

Airfare and rail costs have decent cancel policies and vouchers issued if you cancel. So its not the trip portion that's my concern, My worry is Im away from my home area .

So the real upside to travel insurance for me is the medical portion if I become ill/injured on a trip. I spend summers in Wyoming and in 2017 I had 2 hospital stays and emergency surgery. I  have a medicare advantage plan but if hospitalized you still pay a hospital daily fee for first few days. My medicare advantage insurance plan covered most everything and the travel insurance picked up the balance which was several thousand dollars. I travel every summer and the plans cost me $250-$400 for the 3 months I am away. It also paid for the non-refundable rates at hotels that were booked for my return to Florida, prescriptions, deductibles for tests and much more. It was an easy process. For that trip I used CSA which has been bought out I think.

I rent a house for months while there and travel insurance also covers me if it becomes uninhabitable. ie: fire, flood etc. Most travel insurance policies will allow cancellation for any reason but it costs extra. Most plans cover just about everything. This years plan covers trip cancellation, trip interruption, delays, baggage, emergency medical and dental, evacuation home and more. $249.00. With a little homework you can find exactly what you need in travel insurance.


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## Anderson (Feb 17, 2019)

Also, unless you never take the train, vouchers on Amtrak are more flexible than airline vouchers.  Now, it depends a little bit on how much your ticket costs...for a cheaper ticket, you could easily be spending 10% of the ticket price for insurance against a 25% refund fee.  That's ludicrous. In other cases, a 2-3% fee is...well, less crazy.  But even then?  Just use a credit card with coverage.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Feb 17, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> I'm currently shopping for a travel insurance policy for a cruise this Summer.  My travel agent has suggested Allianz because it is a bit more inexpensive than a Company I have used in the past.  Reading the section dealing with Medical Coverage during one's trip, there is wording that concerns me if a dispute might arise between the insurance company and the customer if a medical claim is filed.  The wording keeps stressing _medically necessary_ for a doctor to be seen.*  Would the insurance company's opinion of what is medically necessary agree with my opinion of that?  *


Short answer is No.

Cruise Ships have a medical department.  If you need a medical evacuation, they will be involved in this.  So yes your travel insurance should cover this.  A Medical Doctor refers you to a hospital for treatment while your on the cruise.

However, randomly going to see the Ships Medical or a Hospital while in port would not be cover.  Unless you were a medical necessary case.  Chest pain due to heart attack vs Fungus between the toes.

So no your travel insurance opinion does not necessarily agree with your own opinion.

Also some cruise ship use there medical department as profit centers. They will charge you a high rate for services, and of course not take your insurance.  Like most Hospitals it seems.


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## NW cannonball (Feb 17, 2019)

Like with any insurance product, read the fine print.

Remember that Warren Buffet made his first few millions in the insurance trade -- sometimes, "insurance" is a racket. Even if honest, insurers have these "actuaries" who figure the odds so much better than any amateur can.

Nowadays, there's useful trip insurance - like on most major credit cards -- where the annual fee is a big revenue center for the card company.

There's also Allianz, many others, -- think of how they make their money before you pay the up-front premium.  It can be a lifesaver! but mostly the premiums are cash in the insurers bank.

Think! Think every time before you pay up front. And maybe buy stock in Berkshire Hathaway. Likely (think actuarially - house odds wins almost always) you win more by buying the insurance company than you lose by forfeiting a train,plane,cruise ticket.


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## flitcraft (Feb 17, 2019)

To  me, there are  things you can self insure for and things you shouldn't.  I buy an annual travel insurance policy that just covers medical expenses and emergency medical evacuation. I've never needed it, but since I travel internationally, and I'm Medicare age, a medivac from Europe or Asia would put a sizable crimp in my retirement plans. For me, that's worth it. But trip interruption insurance? Not so much... I do put my travel expenses on a credit card that offers some travel insurance --that covers me for a hotel room when my flight gets cancelled and that kind of thing. But I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it separately. 

I have to laugh at the airlines now trying to sell travel policies when you buy a ticket online. A week or two ago, I bought a ticket on United with miles I had banked, so the only cash outlay was for taxes--I think about 12 bucks. But they had a box on the online form to buy trip insurance for something like 25 dollars--I wonder how many takers they get for that!


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## cpotisch (Feb 17, 2019)

flitcraft said:


> I have to laugh at the airlines now trying to sell travel policies when you buy a ticket online. A week or two ago, I bought a ticket on United with miles I had banked, so the only cash outlay was for taxes--I think about 12 bucks. But they had a box on the online form to buy trip insurance for something like 25 dollars--I wonder how many takers they get for that!


Maybe that policy would have given you your miles back, which could make it worth it?


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## PVD (Feb 17, 2019)

Travel insurance normally has a hard exclusion for that..


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## seat38a (Feb 17, 2019)

Travel insurance cost way too much for seniors. When I price myself, its cheap! Add in my parents and now we are at 1K+. Because of this reason, I keep and pay for everything with my Chase United Club Card. Comes with some very good coverage including emergency evacuation etc. I pay $450/year for the card.


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## TinCan782 (Feb 17, 2019)

cpotisch said:


> Maybe that policy would have given you your miles back, which could make it worth it?


From *Allianz* ... *One Trip Prime* ... 

*Loyalty Program Redeposit Fee Coverage - $500*Provides reimbursement for frequent flyer mile redeposit fees in the event of a covered trip cancellation.

Don't know how it would work with AGR though!


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## PVD (Feb 17, 2019)

Right, they pay for the fee to redeposit the miles, if the airline allows you to do so, and charges for it. They will not pay for the value of the miles if you lose them in the deal....


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## PVD (Feb 17, 2019)

With a few exceptions, Medicare (and many private policies) does not pay for care outside of the US and its territories. Exposure for most seniors is much greater. I have coverage that pays worldwide, I can buy a policy with much lower medical benefit provisions, and that makes it much cheaper.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 17, 2019)

Sauve850 said:


> Airfare and rail costs have decent cancel policies and vouchers issued if you cancel.


Other than Southwest, most airlines I know charge the equivalent of 50%-100% of the purchase cost if you cancel typical fares after 24 hours.  According to the rules it doesn't really matter why you canceled.  Unless it was obviously the airline's fault you're simply out the money.  Amtrak charges me 25% to cancel 24 hours after purchase and charges me a full 100% to cancel within two weeks of travel.  Forfeiting as much as 100% of the purchase cost doesn't sound like a decent policy to me.



flitcraft said:


> I buy an annual travel insurance policy that just covers medical expenses and emergency medical evacuation. I've never needed it, but since I travel internationally, and I'm Medicare age, a medivac from Europe or Asia would put a sizable crimp in my retirement plans. For me, that's worth it. But trip interruption insurance? Not so much.


Here in the US an _insured_ visit to the ER will cost me $1,000 _or more_.  In another country an _uninsured_ visit might cost as little as $250 or even less.  I'm not even sure I'd want to be returned home in the middle of an emergency.  Flying while under serious medical care is dangerous.  I'd rather that nobody moves me anywhere until I'm healed up enough to fly home the usual way.  If that's not possible then you may as well fly my ashes home when it's over.  The people who need to be careful about insuring against exorbitant medical costs are the folks traveling _into_ the US.



seat38a said:


> Travel insurance cost way too much for seniors.


Or maybe seniors are way too likely to need emergency medical services.


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## Rasputin (Feb 18, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Other than Southwest, most airlines I know charge the equivalent of 50%-100% of the purchase cost if you cancel typical fares after 24 hours.  According to the rules it doesn't really matter why you canceled.  Unless it was obviously the airline's fault you're simply out the money.  Amtrak charges me 25% to cancel 24 hours after purchase and charges me a full 100% to cancel within two weeks of travel.  Forfeiting as much as 100% of the purchase cost doesn't sound like a decent policy to me.


Thanks for all the responses to my question.  

As I recall, Amtrak used to have a very liberal cancellation policy but that changed a year or two ago.


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## cpotisch (Feb 18, 2019)

Rasputin said:


> Thanks for all the responses to my question.
> 
> ﻿ As I recall, Amtrak used to have a very liberal cancellation policy but that changed a year or two ago.


Yeah, Amtrak's change and cancellation policy has gradually gotten worse over the years. Not that long ago, Flexible and Business fares offered a 100% refund if you just don't show up, but now you forfeit the whole amount if you don't call in advance. Saver fares used to offer a full e-voucher back if you canceled more than 14 days in advance, and now there's a 25% fee. Sleepers even used to be fully refundable more than 14 days out. At least they still don't have any change fee, but the cancellation policy really is yet another distinguishing feature of train travel that's going down the drain.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 18, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> I'm currently shopping for a travel insurance policy for a cruise this Summer.  My travel agent has suggested Allianz because it is a bit more inexpensive than a Company I have used in the past.  Reading the section dealing with Medical Coverage during one's trip, there is wording that concerns me if a dispute might arise between the insurance company and the customer if a medical claim is filed.  The wording keeps stressing _medically necessary_ for a doctor to be seen.  Would the insurance company's opinion of what is medically necessary agree with my opinion of that?


I appreciate the comments that previous posters have made to my post.  I have made my decision and have decided to buy Allianz.  Between the Company and me, there have been 2 e-mail exchanges (with responses to my e-mails quickly handled) and one telephone call (also quickly answered by a representative who easily understood my questions/concerns and responded very well to them, satisfying me).  I am happy with my decision.


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## Sauve850 (Feb 18, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Other than Southwest, most airlines I know charge the equivalent of 50%-100% of the purchase cost if you cancel typical fares after 24 hours.  According to the rules it doesn't really matter why you canceled.  Unless it was obviously the airline's fault you're simply out the money.  Amtrak charges me 25% to cancel 24 hours after purchase and charges me a full 100% to cancel within two weeks of travel.  Forfeiting as much as 100% of the purchase cost doesn't sound like a decent policy to me.


I use miles to book airfare and points to book Amtrak sleeper. The cancel policies are a little different from what I read.


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## GBNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

flitcraft said:


> To  me, there are  things you can self insure for and things you shouldn't.  I buy an annual travel insurance policy that just covers medical expenses and emergency medical evacuation. I've never needed it, but since I travel internationally, and I'm Medicare age, a medivac from Europe or Asia would put a sizable crimp in my retirement plans. For me, that's worth it. But trip interruption insurance? Not so much... I do put my travel expenses on a credit card that offers some travel insurance --that covers me for a hotel room when my flight gets cancelled and that kind of thing. But I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it separately.
> 
> I have to laugh at the airlines now trying to sell travel policies when you buy a ticket online. A week or two ago, I bought a ticket on United with miles I had banked, so the only cash outlay was for taxes--I think about 12 bucks. But they had a box on the online form to buy trip insurance for something like 25 dollars--I wonder how many takers they get for that!


I wholly concur with the thoughts Flitcraft has set forth. For my overseas jaunts, I take what United (written by AIG) sells

If one travels frequently overseas throughout the year (jishnu?), then there are policies much more economical than the $278 AIG smoked out of me for a one week trip during August.

A good rule for any insurance other than that required by an outside party is "can I withstand the loss? For me, I can afford to replace a gutter on my house coming down in a windstorm, but I can't afford to rebuild my house if "Elmer" - my Siberian Elm - decided to "come on down" on my house. I can afford to go to the Doctor for a physical, but I can't afford open heart surgery. And overseas, I can't aford a hospital stay over there, nor can I afford a "Medevac". So for the "can'ts", I have insurance.

I think the same reasoning should apply to a domestic trip such as one on Amtrak.


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## jis (Feb 19, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> If one travels frequently overseas throughout the year (jishnu?), then there are policies much more economical than the $278 AIG smoked out of me for a one week trip during August.


I do not buy any additional insurance on any trip. Generally the fares I use are all reusable with zero to a couple of hundred dollars fee, and I never ever use pre-paid non-refundable hotel reservations, so that covers "cancellation without cause". Other cancellations (i.e. with covered cause) are covered by the travel insurance provided by the credit cards I use to pay for the trips. And my HP Retiree Medical Plan (Medicare Part C Advantage Plan) covers medical, hospitalization and emergency care worldwide, and even if you don't, since HP picks up most of the tab beyond of course what Medicare charges for Parts B and D (if your income is more than a threshold). It is really a very good plan if you travel worldwide. Emergency Medical Evacuation is covered by the credit card provided travel insurance. So there is is not much else left to get coverage for.


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## PVD (Feb 19, 2019)

An intelligent and well thought out way of approaching. JIS has covered a key risk, the fact that conventional Medicare is not intended to cover overseas travel medical (they do pay on a direct trip to/from Alaska if you get sick while crossing Canada).


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## caravanman (Feb 19, 2019)

I have found the cost of travel and medical insurance very high, so I don't bother with any at all for my foreign trips. I always have enough cash for a flight home in economy. Other than that, they do a good funeral in Varanasi, so I am told...  

Ed.


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## jis (Feb 19, 2019)

caravanman said:


> I have found the cost of travel and medical insurance very high, so I don't bother with any at all for my foreign trips. I always have enough cash for a flight home in economy. Other than that, they do a good funeral in Varanasi, so I am told...
> 
> Ed.


Do they do good funerals in New York without a hefty fee too?


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## PVD (Feb 19, 2019)

Define "good"  We (NYC) do have Hart Island, and although they have over a million interments since they started, they are down to about 30 a week now....


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## GBNorman (Feb 19, 2019)

Jishnu has clearly evaluated his situation and made the conscious decision that he does not need the trip insurance offered by the carriers.

For myself, if I had to cancel an overseas journey, I would leave money on the table with an unused ticket. I'm honestly not into taking "joyflights" simply to "fly it off". The "Miles" I could care less about; I donate 'em each year to one military relief organization or the other.

My "plain Jane" American Express Senior Gold offers nothing for its $65 fee - no "miles", no insurance, nothing - just the knowledge that, absent going "totally apeo", you will not be embarrassed with being declined for reaching some arbitrary limit.

We all know that Medicare, absent some "off the wall" exceptions,  is worthless once you've shown 'em your Passport and Boarding Pass at the gate. I have no other insurance for overseas hospitalization let alone a medivac.

So I need it - and I buy it. Totally respect Jishnu does not.


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## jis (Feb 19, 2019)

PVD said:


> Define "good"  We (NYC) do have Hart Island, and although they have over a million interments since they started, they are down to about 30 a week now....


Dunno. Ask caravanman what he considers "good". Mention of Varanasi suggest either cremated or tossed into the river as is, depending on how much one is willing to spend, or not. :unsure:


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## PVD (Feb 19, 2019)

Ok I just brought up NYC (my home) to keep things real, I have no idea what they do in his home town. I'm not big on bringing cultural references into threads, it is too easy to offend, even if totally unintended. I've always seen him as one of the more likeable folks that regularly post here, and (I) would give him the benefit of doubt.


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## caravanman (Feb 19, 2019)

Gosh folks, lighten up!

I thought it quite amusing, given my frequent uninsured trips to India, to throw in a jest about expiring in Varanasi, where many Indian folk would prefer to pass away...

I understood the New York question to refer to my possible demise somewhere other than India...   

This may suit train fans more: http://www.tbcs.org.uk/cemetery_railway.html

Ed.


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## jis (Feb 19, 2019)

caravanman said:


> Gosh folks, lighten up!
> I thought it quite amusing, given my frequent uninsured trips to India, to throw in a jest about expiring in Varanasi, where many Indian folk would prefer to pass away...
> I understood the New York question to refer to my possible demise somewhere other than India... [emoji3]
> This may suit train fans more: http://www.tbcs.org.uk/cemetery_railway.html
> Ed.


Indeed my New York comment was entirely in keeping with the lighter vein spirit of you Varanasi post. It is someone else that got all serious about it, unfortunately.


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## PVD (Feb 19, 2019)

My apologies if I made things worse. I was hoping for just the opposite ......


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## JakeCorn (Feb 19, 2021)

Before I go somewhere, I check if the company can provide medical insurance, and today, when I flipped through the Internet, I saw that in Moldova, the railways are generally closed due to the fact that they do not have money to ensure safety.


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