# What happens when a train is very late?



## Don (Oct 24, 2010)

In June, my wife and I planned a trip from NOL to LAX on the SL, to Emeryville on CS, to CHI on CZ, and finally to NOL on City of New Oreleans. We had bedroom accommodation on all the routes. All went well on most of the trip, and we were having a great time. However, that ended on the last day on the CZ trip after we crossed the MO river. There was a big screw-up in scheduling, and we set in in SE Illinois for hours and were 6 hours late getting into Chicago. We missed the train to New Orleans.

AMTRAK was willing to put us up in a hotel in Chicago, but they would not discuss the possible of rooms on the next train. In addition, I had a pretty important doctors appointment which I would have missed if I had stayed over. AMTRAK returned our money, and we elected to fly back to New Orleans the next morning. Of course, the returned AMTRAK fare did not cover the airfare, but I am not really upset about that

The fact that we missed the connection left a bad taste in my mouth and initially soured me on AMTRAK. However, the pain has lessened with time, and I think I may be taking another trip. I am likely to try to schedule connections with a layover. However, I do have some questions about how AMTRAK handles missed connections when sleeping accommodation are involved.

Does AMTRAK have a policy dealing with accommodation? I am sure that if there are opening in rooms or roomettes on the next train, they would accommodate you. However, with most trains running full-up on sleeping accommodations during the summer, this is unlikely. Does this mean that I would have to ride coach to continue on my next leg? On my trip, the City of New Orleans was my last leg. If it had not been my last leg, how would it have affected my accommodations on the rest of my trip?


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## RRrich (Oct 24, 2010)

I am very sorry that your trip went bad. Stuff Happens. You appear to understand the problem - you got into CHI late and missed your train. Amtrak would have put you on the next CONO but there were no sleepers available so they would have refunded the cost of the sleeper. You don't like that - I would not have liked it either but what would you have had Amtrak do?

Given the situation, what is a good solution??


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## PetalumaLoco (Oct 24, 2010)

We almost missed a connection from the CZ to the CL last August, they held the CL 90 minutes, and we actually walked off the CZ in CUS, crossed the platform and boarded the CL. I'm glad we made the connection but it was touch and go. Initially they wouldn't hold the CL for the projected 30 minutes we were behind only 2 hours out of CUS, then they caved and said the CL would wait. 10 minutes later we had a medical emergency and an ambulance met the train at the next stop, and we were delayed a further 40 minutes or so. Consequently we were even further behind.

So it all worked out. However I had made up my mind if we'd missed the connection, and Amtrak would have put us up for the night and put us in coach the next day, we'd quit the trip and drive the rest of the way (eventual destination New Haven Ct.). The wife wasn't too happy about that, but she'd have been even more miserable in coach overnight. We had no deadlines to keep so being 2 more days on the road would just add to the adventure.

But that experience soured me on Amtrak too. If we make a long trip in 2011, it won't be during the height of travel season when the trains are full.

And that's just the stare of LD travel on Amtrak. Take it or leave it.


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## Mackensen (Oct 24, 2010)

In January 2009 I took the _Empire Builder_ from Chicago to Portland on business (in coach, the joys of being young). Outbound we had a couple problems. One car bad-ordered in Chicago, plus problems with the dining car's refrigeration (it eventually failed again in Montana) which delayed us two hours from the get-go. At Devil's Lake BNSF detected a bad axle on one of the locomotives, and the replacement locomotive was delayed by a frozen switch. By the time we reached Spokane we were 10-12 hours behind schedule and the train was annulled. After the refrigeration failed in the dining car Amtrak provided meals to all passengers free of charge, and from Spokane we were all bused to our final destinations and connections.

Inbound, the _Builder_ was canceled because of mudslides which stopped most ground transportation in eastern Washington. I was looking at 2-3 days before the next train east, which I really couldn't afford. I obtained a full refund on my ticket, which happily covered the flight to Chicago, and the ticket agent in Portland bumped me into business class on the Michigan leg of my return for free. Under the circumstances I think Amtrak handled the situation pretty well; I don't know what more they could have done.

Incidentally, this is why I recommend people NOT take the _Builder_ in the dead of winter.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 24, 2010)

They'll sometimes try things like bus bridges for connecting passengers when a train is late but a bus can make it. But if they can't and you have a sleeper, there is no guarantee there will be a sleeper accommodation available the next day and in peak travel season there probably won't be.

While timekeeping has improved in the last few years, there are still incidents beyond both Amtrak's and the host railroad's control: derailments, weather, medical emergencies, and in the last couple of days, a warehouse fire by the tracks in Albany, so trains can get catastrophically late.

Because having a sleeper is important to me, most of the time I allow a layover day when connecting sleeper to sleeper, because I know trains can run late, having experienced it more than once. Sometimes scheduling makes me take a chance, in that case I look for how reliable the inbound train is. I made a same day connection from the SW Chief to the Starlight last year, but was willing to do it because the SW Chief has pretty consistently good timekeeping (and runs over the BNSF. Don't think I'd do a same day coming off of a train that the UP dispatches).

Bottom line -- always plan for possibility of a late train. Build slack in as appropriate.

With that said, I think Amtrak handles mis-connections far better and with more concern for passenger comfort that the airlines. Amtrak will provide hotel rooms, transfers and food. The airlines mostly do not.


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## PetalumaLoco (Oct 24, 2010)

zephyr17 said:


> ...
> 
> Because having a sleeper is important to me, most of the time I allow a layover day when connecting sleeper to sleeper, because I know trains can run late, having experienced it more than once.
> 
> ...


I like that idea, if we do go x-country again, I'll consider a planned layover. I've been wanting to explore Chicago a bit so maybe a couple of days stop is in order.

I agree Amtrak does a better job when the stuff hits the fan, and I appreciate that.


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## jmbgeg (Oct 24, 2010)

Don said:


> In June, my wife and I planned a trip from NOL to LAX on the SL, to Emeryville on CS, to CHI on CZ, and finally to NOL on City of New Oreleans. We had bedroom accommodation on all the routes. All went well on most of the trip, and we were having a great time. However, that ended on the last day on the CZ trip after we crossed the MO river. There was a big screw-up in scheduling, and we set in in SE Illinois for hours and were 6 hours late getting into Chicago. We missed the train to New Orleans.
> 
> AMTRAK was willing to put us up in a hotel in Chicago, but they would not discuss the possible of rooms on the next train. In addition, I had a pretty important doctors appointment which I would have missed if I had stayed over. AMTRAK returned our money, and we elected to fly back to New Orleans the next morning. Of course, the returned AMTRAK fare did not cover the airfare, but I am not really upset about that
> 
> ...


First, before I book a long distance trip with one or more connecting trains I check the on time performance of the inbound trains on this site:

http://amtrakdelays.onlineschedulingsoftware.com/

I look out four weeks at OTP. If there have been a material number of misconnections, I try to build in a layover in the cities with short connections; time and budget allowing. If your train is on time and I have a one to two hour buffer before the connecting train, I can see if there is sleeper space same day; and if so; cancel my connecting city hotel (even if there is a penalty). Usually, I'll just overnight and travel as scheduled. I get to explore the connecting city, have a good dinner out, and relax before the next day's travel. If the inbound train is late enough where it would have mis-connected, I pat myself on the back for advance planning. The only thing I have missed is the Amtrak reimbursement for the overnight hotel on the misconnect.

If my schedule or budget don't favor the pre-planned overnight, I go with the flow and book all connecting trains. If there is a mis-connect; as others have said, Amtrak takes care of you (room and meals).

Next week I am traveling from LAX on the CS; connecting with the Builder. On that connection, if late, Amtrak has an option to bus you from Klamath Falls to Pasco to catch up with the Builder. It is an 11 hour bus ride and I hate it, so I have built an overnight into my schedule before I travel east on the Builder. I see that today, the CS is over 3 hours late and will mis-connect with the Builder. My advance planning is just the prescription for that type of event.

I have travelled over 400,000 airline miles miles over the decades before I became a railfan. For those who choose to flame Amtrak, I had just as many flight delays and cancellations as I have had train delays and bustitutions. It happens. Contingency planning helps.


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## amtrakwolverine (Oct 24, 2010)

Like said stuff happens. someone drives around a downed gate or the train strikes someone walking on or along side the tracks then amtrak has to wait for the police and if needed a corner to remove the remains. If the locomotive was damage like a busted windshield etc it can't continue as the FRA won't allow it. So amtrak has to then wait for either another amtrak engine or a host railroad engine or any engine nearby. By then the crews could outlaw and then you have to wait for a replacement. Those are beyond Amtraks control. Amtrak offered to put you up in a hotel since no other trains were heading to your destination that day. Just cause you are in a sleeper doesn't mean you will get one on the next days train. They could be sold out long in advance So coach is all that's left. While i would not be happy either at least they refunded some of your sleeper money. Amtrak did what they could. Give them some slack. Now if they refused to help you etc or refused to refund your money that's another ball game.


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## Tony (Oct 25, 2010)

Don said:


> In addition, I had a pretty important doctors appointment which I would have missed if I had stayed over.


While I strongly sympathize with you, I have road LD Amtrak trains enough to know first hand that they can be late; sometimes very late. IMHO, Amtrak should never be one's choice for LD travel when getting to your destination promptly, one time, is such an important necessity.



Don said:


> Does AMTRAK have a policy dealing with accommodation? I am sure that if there are opening in rooms or roomettes on the next train, they would accommodate you. However, with most trains running full-up on sleeping accommodations during the summer, this is unlikely. Does this mean that I would have to ride coach to continue on my next leg?


To be realistic, Amtrak would need to run with 50% or less occupancy to keep enough sleeper accommodations always open and available for delayed passengers. I don't think that could ever happen. Yea, if Amtrak had extra equipment such that they could simply throw on a few extra cars to create the necessary accommodations, it could happen, but that is very unlikely to ever be an option today or in the near future.


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## Me_too! (Oct 25, 2010)

Unless one is trying to get from one place to another fast (take a plane), then one is enjoying the rest and relaxation so get an AAA book to find the best things to see and the best deal in an overnight hotel and enjoy the trip.


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## rrdude (Oct 25, 2010)

I know all too much about the realities of Amtrak "only one a day" LD service (mostly, cept for East Coast to Florida)

I know all about the equipment problems. (lack of)

But it still seems just incredulous to me that as travelers, we have to "plan" for train delays, missed connections, etc., etc.

Every bit of advice on planning that was posted is good sound advice, and I often do the same. But man, just think about, Amtrak's customers KNOW how unreliable Amtrak's service is, and they PLAN IN extra days, or time in their travel itineraries.

It's like Amtrak has "conditioned us" to such crappy service, we now expect crappy service, and are pleasantly surprised when we get _average_ service.

I do not know any other customer-facing travel company that operates like that, or who has "trained" the traveling public like that. Amazing.

Sad, but amazing. It just boggles my feeble mind.


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## the_traveler (Oct 25, 2010)

At least Amtrak will pay for your hotel and meals for a missed connect - so what if you have to be downgraded to coach?




An airline will put you on "the next flight available that has seats available". With so few flights and open seats, that may be next Friday!



And then in most cases, you can either sleep in the airport for the next week, or pay your own hotel for the next week!

My sister's fiance did get a hotel in Paris paid by Air France last month - but only because he was flying First Class!


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## Dan O (Oct 26, 2010)

rrdude said:


> I know all too much about the realities of Amtrak "only one a day" LD service (mostly, cept for East Coast to Florida)
> 
> I know all about the equipment problems. (lack of)
> 
> ...


Is it any different than allowing for extra time when commuting where heavy traffic can be a factor? It's less time involved but not much different.

Dan


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## Shanghai (Oct 26, 2010)

*In all my Amtrak travels, I was only delayed one time due to a snowstorm.*

*I called Amtrak and they had already rebooked me from the Cardinal to the*

*Lake Shore and I was able to get a roomette on the Lake Shore. I was pleased.*


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## colobok (Oct 26, 2010)

I booked a trip for July LAX-PDX-GPK.

Layover between CS and EB in Portland is 1.5 hrs.

What are my chances to miss the train from Portland to Glacier?

We have the Family Bedroom for 4 people and it's only one on the train.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 26, 2010)

colobok said:


> I booked a trip for July LAX-PDX-GPK.
> 
> Layover between CS and EB in Portland is 1.5 hrs.
> 
> ...


That is a guaranteed connection, and is usually supported. The Starlight has been running better for the last year or two (so much so they reinstated that connection), and will make it. If the Starlight is very late, they will do a bus bridge, even a very lengthy one, Klamath Falls-Pasco (which was the option before they reinstated the connection). You'd miss a lot of scenery and comfort on both trains if they did that, but you'd make the connection.

I wouldn't worry about that one too much.


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## Tony (Oct 27, 2010)

rrdude said:


> But it still seems just incredulous to me that as travelers, we have to "plan" for train delays, missed connections, etc., etc.


I always plan for delays when I travel. For example, I leave for the train station early just in case of highway jams (some one's accident can ruin your plans). My "plan" then involves enjoying the station's ClubAcela.

I can say that the only problem I have had, was when my LD overnight train arrived an hour early. While I had all sorts of contingency plans in place for varying amounts of delay, I had no plans for an early arrival. :lol:

Anyway, as I mentioned, I always plan for delays, and that's true not only for train travel, but car, bus, and plane too. I think that is simply being prudent and realistic.


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## VentureForth (Oct 27, 2010)

Seems like once they knew you were x-hours late that you would have been offered an opportunity to be bussed from whereever you were on the CZ to the CONO line.

Certainly, it looks like they could have bussed you from Bloomington-Normal to Champaign and made the connection.


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## had8ley (Oct 27, 2010)

All I wanna say is I'm glad you weren't riding on the Sunset (#'s 1 & 2) in the mid to late '90's. It was normal to be 12-14 hours late and occasionally over a day late in either direction; I rode an equipment move to Miami that was three DAYS late into NOL and was abolished east of NOL. Bustitution from NOL to Miami was almost as bad as spending hard time in prison and Amtrak had to do it often as it was the host (UP)RR's fault; probably a major reason for the big stall,on re-starting (or even giving valid, sensible and meaningful reasons why they are not)service east of NOL.


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## colobok (Oct 27, 2010)

zephyr17 said:


> colobok said:
> 
> 
> > I booked a trip for July LAX-PDX-GPK.
> ...


How does it work?

Will they contact me by phone on the train and offer bus connection?

I don't really like to take a bus because we have 2 kids.

I would prefer to stay at the hotel and take the train next day.

Can I refuse taking the bus and choose the hotel?


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## zephyr17 (Oct 27, 2010)

colobok said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > colobok said:
> ...


Unless there was a known, forecasted delay, such as for scheduled trackwork, they would not contact you in advance. If that were the case, they would probably present alternatives.

For the far more likely case of a enroute delay, you would be notified of the connection arrangements on board, most likely through announcements by the conductor concerning all passengers connecting to 28.

While typically Amtrak will take care of you in these events, they do not usually provide options on how they will do that. So, you can always refuse the bus bridge, and ride through to Portland, but then Amtrak's responsibility to you is at an end. In that case, any hotel, etc. in Portland would be your responsibility. Although, in all likelihood, you could call customer service and they probably would honor your ticket on the next day's 28 at no extra charge (you'd have to physically get the ticket re-issued in Portland) and refund the sleeper accomodation charge, if none were available . They also might agree to refund that entire leg of the trip if you wanted, leaving you to your own devices to get to Glacier.

If you did take the bus bridge, Amtrak will refund some of the sleeper charges for the missing legs (K Falls - Portland - Pasco), but you'll probably have to call Customer Service and ask for it.

FYI, there is about 30 minutes of schedule padding (aka "recovery time") into Portland, so you actually have more slack in there than you think.


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## Janice Dicks (Aug 6, 2014)

Is there any type of resolution if Amtrak is over 2 hours late


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## zephyr17 (Aug 6, 2014)

It would be good if you could give the context. 2 hours late on the NEC and 2 hours late on the long-distance train are quite different things. Also if you are asking about guaranteed connections, or some kind of compensation.

They will typically give some kind of compensation in the form of a voucher for future travel if a train is VERY late. Don't know the policies, and the cut off times, but I would consider a 2 hour late train on the NEC as very late, and a 2 hour late Empire Builder as a good day. However, you must call Customer Relations (get an agent at 800-USA-RAIL, and ask for Customer Relations), they don't give compensation out automatically, you have to ask for it.

Note that getting compensation is different and separate from what they do for a missed guaranteed connection. Depending on the alternative arrangements they make to get you to your destination, you may get a paid-for hotel room and cash for meals and cabfare if you have to stay overnight because of a missed connection.

All that is in addition to the wonderful Dinty Moore over rice meal you may get onboard when a long distance train is catastrophically late (like 8 hours or more).


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## neutralist (Aug 7, 2014)

That is what trip interruption coverage on most credit cards are for.


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## ehbowen (Aug 7, 2014)

Janice Dicks said:


> Is there any type of resolution if Amtrak is over 2 hours late


Amtrak does have a policy which enables you to cancel your travel and obtain a full refund if the (long-distance) train is two hours (or more) late at the *boarding* station. However, if you board the train (on-time or not) and it subsequently becomes late, you need to stick with it until you arrive at your destination or bail out and obtain alternate transportation at your own inconvenience and expense...and then seek whatever partial refund or compensation Amtrak may be willing to offer via Customer Relations.


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