# Very Bad Amtrak Review at my3cents.com



## lepearso (Jul 23, 2007)

Here is the link to her story.

She describes a peculiar situation at the Holland, MI train station. Then, she notes that first class sleeping and dining car services have really gone down. Finally, she describes a nightmarish experience at Chicago Union Station.

I pray that what she went through is the exception and not the rule. In any event, I think that situations like these need urgent attention and proper remedy.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 23, 2007)

Wow... that whole article seemed strange. I felt like I was reading a report about someone in a Prison Camp. I honestly have some suspissions. She says that there were passengers in private cars that were treating the diner like a bar, and that they were given very courteous treatment by the dining car staff.

Well the Southwest Chief is a superliner train, so there should not be any way of getting from a private car to the diner, unless a transition sleeper was used on the rear and the front? But that would be very odd.

Also, who in their right mind would even want to hang out in an amtrak diner when you have rented out a private car? Private cars almost always carry their own food and beverage staff, with fully stocked kitchens and bars that have food and drinks of much higher quality then Amtrak has ever served, and its already paid for. I seriously doubt that part of the story.

Also if there were hotels available in Chicago, why didn't they pay for them themselves? If you can travel as much as they do on amtrak, you can certainly pay for a hotel night. I realize they shouldnt have too, but I would pay the bill rather than staying in this prison scenario that she describes.

I am not saying that these things didn't happen, I know that Amtrak staff can be quite rude at times, but I just think that alot of this sounds very suspicious.


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## Sam Damon (Jul 23, 2007)

Seems like Mr. Fremaux needs to read this woman's account.

I do find the private varnish-related bits a bit hard to believe.


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## x-press (Jul 23, 2007)

The only thing that makes me wonder about these stories is the simple fact that I have never encountered anything like this on Amtrak. Service hasn't always been stellar; some employees have simply come across the wrong way, communications during a recent train evacuation on the corridor were, well, non-existant, and of course the timekeeping issues are legendary.

But I've never encountered true animosity as is described.

Even taking the story at face value:

- Many of the complaints were the same old nonsense about diner lite being evil incarnate, and the lack of a Native American guide in the lounge. By comparison, a train cancellation gets about one sentence. Regardless of whether it saves money (we've about beat that to death), the food tastes fine to me, and fine to most other reporters once the glitches were worked out.

- Since the dining car attendants were "nice" to that other group, why weren't they "nice" to the writer? I wasn't there, but one must suspect that the writer decided (rightly or wrongly) she was being snubbed, and got "snappy" at the wait staff. Granted, a really good staff would avoid "snapping" back, but this isn't five star restaurant territory.

- Most importantly, regarding the episode at Union Station: Assume they missed their connection and Amtrak didn't have their act together (you'd think they would by now, considering how often it happens). Further assume that Amtrak insisted on sending them to lodging far outside the city. FURTHER further assume that the place was a flea bag, and they wouldn't be able to get a return trip until later in the day than they desired/needed.

I'm not entirely sure what the "right" course of action was (like others, I'd suggest getting lodging in the city), but I'm quite sure "commandeering" an Amtrak lounge and ripping stuff off the walls to use as blankets is NOT the right way to go.

There are people who make bad situations better, and people who manage to make them worse. I'm sensing that the writer was in the second group.

JPS


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 23, 2007)

Well I believe her!

Sometimes when I read responses to passengers who were treated terribly, it appears that the members of this forum would rather trash the passenger who had the bad experience than place the blame where it truly belongs.

As far as them not paying for their own hotel, well why should they? Amtrak should have provided _safe_ lodging and transportation back to CUS to catch their morning train.

Or maybe they didn't have the funds to pay for their own hotel. Since it was the last part of their vacation, maybe they didn't have any money left and had maxed out the only credit card they took with them.

Regardless, there was absolutely no excuse for this type of treatment.

I have encountered truly rude, actually beyond rude treatment from train attendants and can't understand why Amtrak allows this to continue.

This has been hashed and rehashed many, many times on this forum and these attendants continue to work on the trains.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 23, 2007)

My question is - Why in the world were those folks not all on the phone to the 800 number raising expletive deleted about how they were being treated???? That number is 24/7, and SURELY if Amtrak got a bunch of calls one after the other detailing what was happening, there would have been a call coming to Chicago demanding some appropriate action (and possibly one or more heads would have rolled)!!


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## Sam Damon (Jul 23, 2007)

There seem to be enough of these horror stories floating around to the point where I believe the odd one, such as this one. I tend to believe the horror story about Chicago Union Station. The loading plans there -- compared to DB's operations in Germany -- seem totally nonsensical, which is why I would tend to believe anything people tell me about screw-ups there. OTOH, as I said previously, this story's bit where the PV patrons hogging the bar seems a bit "over the top."

Having said that, I must say that I have never encountered truly wretched service on an Amtrak train (knock wood). Even the one time in 1985 when I was on an Amtrak train which hit a stupid dump truck that was trying to beat the train to a grade crossing, bad service did not happen to me. Amtrak actually held the CL at Washington, DC two hours for our connecting passengers, myself included.


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## Sam Damon (Jul 23, 2007)

AmtrakWPK said:


> My question is - Why in the world were those folks not all on the phone to the 800 number raising expletive deleted about how there were being treated. That number is 24/7, and SURELY if they got a bunch of calls one after the other detailing what was happening, there would be a call coming to Chicago demanding some appropriate action!!


Perhaps a better idea is to call a radio talk show, or perhaps one of the local TV stations -- especially in Chicago, where the competition is legendary. Hype factor Nine, Captain!

Abject embarrassment of Amtrak management seems worth a shot in that sort of situation.


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## MrFSS (Jul 23, 2007)

The web site where this Blog came from also has a number of others that are anti-Amtrak. See this *LINK*.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 23, 2007)

x-press said:


> I'm not entirely sure what the "right" course of action was (like others, I'd suggest getting lodging in the city), but I'm quite sure "commandeering" an Amtrak lounge and ripping stuff off the walls to use as blankets is NOT the right way to go.
> 
> JPS


Very very well put. Every time I read that it makes me laugh!

And I might say, I'm not trying to trash the passenger. I believe that the passenger did run into some poor customer service. However much of the article seems very strange. I have ridden on Amtrak many times (including many trips through Chicago Union Station) and have never been treated like this passenger. I do know that terrible Customer Service can come when you least expect it (for me it was at a Holiday Inn Express). But some of the facts just dont add up. I do feel sorry for this customer.


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## AlanB (Jul 23, 2007)

Perhaps when he has time, Clearfork will share his impressions of his missed connection in Chicago. I'm not sure how he might feel about how customer service treated him, since we didn't go into that. But from what he told me, his hotel was far from a prison like atmosphere.


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## Foodman53 (Jul 24, 2007)

I find her 150% believeable!! My wife and I are in the midst of our Western vacation, which began on #7, the Empire Builder, having departed Chicago on Saturday, July 14th. After a monumental delay near Havre, MT....we did arrive in Seattle over 9 hours late! However, that's not the topic!! Over the years, I've been aware of horror stories, one after the other, regarding Amtrak travel...and, when I want to think that Amtrak has turned the corner, customer service-wise, something else bizzarre occurs!!

Again, this forum does spend a lot of time "beating up the complainer", rather than being an advocacy group for Amtrak doing their job...with whatever they have to do it with.

In this day and age, with air travel being so unpleasant(Kudos to Osama, "W", and "Homeland Security"!!)....people are looking for relief from all that crap, and increasingly using Amtrak as that alternative. Since Amtrak isn't a "discount" alternative, when folks pay good money, they have the right to be transported and be treated well. In today's world, poor customer service is intolerable, if one plans to stay in business!! On that point, there are no excuses!!

From the Florida Funnel(currently on the Oregon Coast!!)

Foodman53


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## x-press (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm not "trashing" anybody; I have been accused of being the resident "gloomy gus" of this board, since I am more critical of Amtrak than many here. I'm simply noting that there are two sides to most stories, and an internet blog isn't exactly a respected travel journal. I can write a blog tomorrow about Amtrak employees whipping passengers with their belts. That doesn't mean it happened.

Just as there is a tendency among certain railfans to give Amtrak a pass and blame problems on freight railroads and congress, there is a tendency among certain other travel veterans to pass on folk tales of Amtrak (and other) horror stories.

As we anxiously sat on the corridor earlier this month on a broken down train, some bratty little kid railfan started telling everyone in the vicinity about his Amtrak-veteran horror stories, and upsetting some poor older passengers who probably believed every word of his nonsense.

When we were waiting for a delayed (a whole 15 minutes) Chief in Kansas City, an older couple in front of us started telling about the-10-hour-delayed-train-with-the-air-conditioning-broken-in-100-degree-heat . . . When they realized my friend and I didn't care and weren't paying attention, they IMMEDIATELY started telling the same story to another group a few feet away! My friend (NOT a railfan), noted that the temperature was now 120 degrees in their little story and started cracking up.

Yes, there are parts of that story that make me cringe. Amtrak forcing their own passengers to miss a train?! Yikes. There are other parts that I don't give a rat's arse about. Yes, Amtrak continues to have a never-ending "special" of chicken fried steak that nobody likes. I don't know why, and I don't care. I'll base my opinions of Amtrak on my own experiences, good and bad.

JPS


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## x-press (Jul 24, 2007)

Foodman53 said:


> Over the years, I've been aware of horror stories, one after the other, regarding Amtrak travel...and, when I want to think that Amtrak has turned the corner, customer service-wise, something else bizzarre occurs!!


You've experienced the horror stories? Or you've heard them?

If I based all my travel plans on horror stories for ALL travel modes, I'd never leave the house.


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## Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight (Jul 24, 2007)

I just read all of the letters posted on that "my3cents.com" site in regard to Amtrak. And as usual with complaint letters, they tend to be rather "over exaggerated" in the details. However, I am not surprised at most of the points the lady makes in the letter pertaining to this thread. I will say this again as I have since my first days on this board as an Amtrak employee before I left to the freight sector.

Until Amtrak management is HELD FULLY ACCOUNTABLE for their actions, there will never be any improvements of major influence. Employee morale is pretty much unacceptable as has been in my tenure (at least in my crewbase but I have seen it elsewhere). There are many good employees out there on the trains and in the stations, but they too feel the pressure and negativity that trickles down from management. My file didn't have any complaint letters from passengers in it. I had an overall good employment experience at Amtrak. However, I could see the writing on the wall. It is not going to change anytime soon., Sure they are making progress in some areas, but management needs to be the primary focus. And there is nobody that is going to make me change my opinion no matter how they try. Amtrak's woes fall on its management ranks! So I have made my way to the freight sector, and the difference is surreal to me! And the first thing that stood out at the new freight railroad? The management performs business more in line of like they are supposed to!

And BTW it is necessary for me to mention this........ I realize I am attacking Amtrak management as a former "agreement covered" employee. But I haven't lost the management mindset I gained while employed as a manager at my previous employer before Amtrak. I have come across a few (the key word is "few") good management types at Amtrak! I want to be sure it is noted that there are good managers as well as good employees there. But change needs to start and continue improving from the top on down! But I can't stress enough, "let's start at the top of the ladder!!!!" I believe it when I see it!

OBS gone freight.......

PS

To those who are planning on future rail travel and first timers exploring the options of rail,

Don't let this posting make you not want to persue the idea or put a bad taste in your mouth. Get on and see for yourself whether rail travel is your "cup of tea." If it isn't what you expect, seek compensation and try again. After that, if you can't see rail travel fitting your future travel plans, at least you can depart by saying "been there, done it, and don't like it!" I routinely dealt with great passengers on my trips, and even several of those who concluded it's not for them.


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## amtrak_russ (Jul 24, 2007)

As a rider on the Pere Marquette which services Holland, MI. I have never heard anything remotely of what she is saying. The person at the station is not an amtrak employee since the station is not staffed. he is a volunteer. He know so much about these train he couldnt have been that useless. As I know the crew of these trains and railfan and ride the line often i know her horror story on the holland to chicago portion could have been that bad. This also leads me to believe her other leg of the trip was over exaggerated. Not to say Amtrak's Long distance routes arent the best, but they cannot be that bad. She will be one who will never ride the train again, and this frustrates me that the ignorance and uptightness brought her a bad experience. Most of these passengers dont realize what is behind a trip like this and if your planning to take a long trip like this find a sense of adventure and make the best of what is thrown at you. It could be worse you could live in 1850 and take a wagon and get to your destination in a matter of months instead of days, and have to survive in the great outdoors.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

Alan, who is Clearfork?

x-press, it's obvious that you have not experienced this type of behavior from Amtrak employees. Until you do, perhaps you should not attempt to discredit those of us who have.


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## Sam Damon (Jul 24, 2007)

Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:


> I just read all of the letters posted on that "my3cents.com" site in regard to Amtrak. And as usual with complaint letters, they tend to be rather "over exaggerated" in the details. However, I am not surprised at most of the points the lady makes in the letter pertaining to this thread. I will say this again as I have since my first days on this board as an Amtrak employee before I left to the freight sector.
> Until Amtrak management is HELD FULLY ACCOUNTABLE for their actions, there will never be any improvements of major influence.


Exact-ta-mundo! The mere fact that we are discussing Yet Another Amtrak Horror Story suggests that Amtrak management is not being held accountable for their actions.

Since I became reinterested in Amtrak travel about the time the Three Rivers came off, I think I've scanned quite a few websites, and dug through a number of public records concerning Amtrak. In that process, it seems to me that every so often, some sort of pretty well-neigh unbelievable story concerning wretched customer service on Amtrak would pop up. The story might have been in a newspaper article; sometimes, it was even in record testimony before a legislative body. Enough people were swearing that it was true to the point where even someone like myself -- a fairly skeptical member of the fourth estate -- could not regard Yet Another Amtrak Horror Story as simply not being true.

Even so, as I've posted earlier, I have quite a bit of skepticism regarding the PV patrons hanging out at the bar. I've never seen that, but I've only been on one Amtrak train that was hauling PV. Subjectively, I think we're seeing more PV moves. Or, maybe, just more PV moves being talked about. At any rate, it seems to me that if you're shelling out the cash to ride PV, you don't want to hang out with the _Hoi polloi_. That's why I'm skeptical. OTOH, if this person had said the first class patrons were hanging out at the bar, I would find it believable.

Stories like this do not make the task of preserving intercity passenger trains in the USA any easier. They need to stop. Yesterday.


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## jg greenwood (Jul 24, 2007)

I, unfortunately, believe every word of the story. I've been treated rudely while deadheading on Amtrak. If the weasels will treat a fellow railroader rudely, anything is possible! Amtrak continues to be their own worst enemy.


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## had8ley (Jul 24, 2007)

x-press said:


> The only thing that makes me wonder about these stories is the simple fact that I have never encountered anything like this on Amtrak. Service hasn't always been stellar; some employees have simply come across the wrong way, communications during a recent train evacuation on the corridor were, well, non-existant, and of course the timekeeping issues are legendary.
> But I've never encountered true animosity as is described.
> 
> Even taking the story at face value:
> ...



Notwithstanding the ifs, ands and buts I can truthfully, and I wish I didn't have to, say that ALL of the above could have happened on today's Amtrak. Maybe a few things were blown up for attention but I promise you these things can, and do, happen. Unfortunately, this passenger saw the worst of the worst. I would have to say that there was a 90% chance of all of the above taking place. How the passenger re-acted is a personal decision that has to be done on the spot. I don't think that we would know how to re-act beforehand until we were thrown into the same situations. BTW, Slidell used to have a caretaker that would make you think he was an Amtrak employee. He would ask if you were traveling in sleeper or coach~ direct you where to stand; dictate that you had to have name tags on all your luggage and had many other directives. He was very well intentioned but I'm not sure that Amtrak was paying him more than to open and close the station at train time. Perhaps this is the situation in Michigan.


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## x-press (Jul 24, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> x-press, it's obvious that you have not experienced this type of behavior from Amtrak employees. Until you do, perhaps you should not attempt to discredit those of us who have.


Let's be clear, I have experienced PLENTY of nightmares on Amtrak: two cancelled trains/vacations, 6 hour late trains (yes, I know they get later), bustitutions, "rude" employees, overbooked trains, a broken down train . . . I don't dwell on them, but apparently I need to mention these things to get "street cred" around here.

We are not talking about "rude" employees. We are talking about Amtrak employees forcing people into a flithy, concentration camp-like lounge and locking them in, while verbally abusing them for much of the night. MORE importantly, we're talking about the perception that Amtrak employees are SO bad, that this wouldn't surprise us in the LEAST.

If you've experienced THAT kind of behavior on Amtrak, and apparently regularly, then you certainly have my sincere sympathy, my sincere apology for this perceived "discrediting," and my sincere shock that you would ever have anything to do with them again. Otherwise, I simply have to suspect that this story is probably exaggerated, and certainly not characteristic of a flawed, but humane in my experience Amtrak work force.

Let the horror stories continue.


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## frj1983 (Jul 24, 2007)

My only addition to all of this:

I have no way of finding out, but I wonder if the writer of the story bothered to call Amtrak and complain??

I know how a bad experience can mushroom (it's happened to me on the train AND on the plane), but I really get tired of those who vent their spleen about any bad experience without seeking some sort of resolution with whomever(they've dealt with).

Some other random thoughts:

1) If two people who refuse to identify themselves won't allow me egress to a public parking area...I think it's call the police time!

2) So they didn't have the Native American Guides, is Amtrak or for that matter whomever you are traveling with responsible for your entertainment and enlightenment?

3) Gee if I were bustituted, I might make mention of why this happened...it's a gigantic thing, why was no further mention made of this?

4) I go through Union Station everyday(Morning and Evening), and I have heard Customer service talking to

late arriving passengers and have never, heard Amtrak talk about using a "flea bag" hotel way down in Homewood...it's always places in the immediate area. Why would you hire a bus and drive all the way to Homewood?

5) Did anyone get the feeling that pieces of this story were missing?

6) I will however, give the writer the benefit of the doubt about snarly staff, there are some of those people at Union Station in Chicago, and I like OBS Gone Freight think that management should be held accountable for these people. I just feel that there is no decent process on Amtrak's side of the passenger car that can lead to this accountability.

Wow, I let this get way too long!


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## TALKrr (Jul 24, 2007)

Let me add my comments.

First of all, I am a very experienced Amtrak traveler , with over a hundred-thousand miles to my credit. I do not mention this to brag, but simply to validate the fact that I am very familiar with the "system" and how it works. I have traveled over every one of Amtrak's long-distance routes (first-class), most numerous times.

Everydaymatters:

When individuals like myself read "horror" stories like this lady reports , of course , we are very concerned , and honestly attempt to be as understanding as we can possibly be. At least that is the way it is with me. Sometimes we DO question certain aspects of the story, because they may not seem to make sense to us. I would not call this "trashing."-----just analysis.

First, I have been hoteled by Amtrak in Chicago due to the late arrival of my train. In fact, the one time this happened it was with train #4 , the Chief. First-class passengers we placed in the same hotel that Amtrak uses for its crews. It was not a four-star hotel , but quite adequate.

I was offered cab-fare and a meal allowance, also. It DID take a while for all of the first-class passengers to be accomodated at Union Station---that is, given the hotel vouchers and money. But the process was not too painful or lengthy and the staff attempted to be polite and caring.

If I remember correctly, within an hour I was on my way to the hotel.

The lady mentioned both the Hyatt and Westin (who evidently did have rooms available.) To my knowledge, Amtrak does not use these hotels for either their crews or passengers simply because they are much too expensive. So I understand this policy completely. Airlines most certainly do not place their crews in 4 or 5 star hotels over-nite either.

I do not know anything about the Swisshotel. It may be very expensive, too.

The lady said that she was familiar with the hotel Amtrak suggested , BUT "as a child." Well that could have been 20-30 years ago !! Times change. By now the hotel could be under new management and completely different from what she remembered. Doesn't that make sense ? Even the area where the hotel is located could have changed since she was a child.

I did not understand why she thought she would be unable to get back to Union Station until after noon , and thus miss her connection back home to Michigan.

When I was sent to my hotel, it was by cab. That is the way I believe all passengers are sent to their hotels from the station. That being the case, wouldn't she have been offered cab-fare for the return trip to the station and thus been able to arrive back there whenever she wanted to ?

Regarding the Metro Lounge:

To my knowledge, unfortunately , it closes at about 11 PM and thus would have been unavailable for the family and other passengers to use.

I do not understand WHO these "private-car passengers" were and WHERE they came from. Any private rail-cars attached to the back of an Amtrak train have NO access to the Amtrak train itself. First of all, most of these private cars are SINGLE-LEVEL. Amtrak Super-liners are double-deck and there is NO way to cross from car to car except by an UPPER level. Thus it is impossible for any private-car passenger to enter the Amtrak train. Also, tickets would be needed for the Amtrak train. Furthermore, as was mentioned, WHY would any passenger traveling in a luxurious , private rail-car WANT to enter an Amtrak train. It would not make sense.

So my question is , who were these mysterious passengers so obnoxious to the lady ??

So that is my reply to some of the comments the lady made. I have no doubt she may have encountered some rude Amtrak service staff. We all have. When this happens in my experience, I get the NAMES of these individuals and report them directly.

My intent was not to "trash" the lady who reports the story. However, there are simply parts of the story that do not make sense to me , from my own EXPERIENCE.

If anyone lives in the Chicago area, IS Homewood over 40 miles from Union Station , and what "type" of an area is it today ?


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## frj1983 (Jul 24, 2007)

TALKrr said:


> Let me add my comments.
> First of all, I am a very experienced Amtrak traveler , with over a hundred-thousand miles to my credit. I do not mention this to brag, but simply to validate the fact that I am very familiar with the "system" and how it works. I have traveled over every one of Amtrak's long-distance routes (first-class), most numerous times.
> 
> Everydaymatters:
> ...


According to Mapquest, Homewood is 26.5 miles from downtown Chicago!


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

x-press said:


> The only thing that makes me wonder about these stories is the simple fact that I have never encountered anything like this on Amtrak. .
> But I've never encountered true animosity as is described.
> 
> JPS


Here you say you have never encountered anything like this.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

x-press said:


> Let's be clear, I have experienced PLENTY of nightmares on Amtrak: two cancelled trains/vacations, 6 hour late trains (yes, I know they get later), bustitutions, "rude" employees, overbooked trains, a broken down train . . .


Here you say you have encountered something like this.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

I know a px from Montana who was bussed to a hotel in Homewood, so I have to believe her that the hotel was that far away. If she had knowledge of that hotel from 20 or 30 years ago, I don't blame her for not wanting to stay there. It could be excellent now, but she would never feel safe there, so why go?

As far as why don't these passengers with bad experiences don't complain to Amtrak, from my own experience on the SWC in October, where the attendant threatened two people (no, not me) that she was going to throw them off the train and she was abusive to several others, the reason I didn't complain is because she told me she had a young daughter. That's the only reason, because she certainly didn't deserve to keep her job. It occurred to me that she might be the sole support of her daughter. Sorry if that sounds irresponsible of me, but I just couldn't do it to a little kid.

Also, people who have had bad experiences probably often want to get on with their lives and forget it ever happened.


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## x-press (Jul 24, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> x-press said:
> 
> 
> > Let's be clear, I have experienced PLENTY of nightmares on Amtrak: two cancelled trains/vacations, 6 hour late trains (yes, I know they get later), bustitutions, "rude" employees, overbooked trains, a broken down train . . .
> ...


Wrong. I have never experienced concentration camp-like conditions, Amtrak employees wanting to "throw me into the streets of Chicago," verbal abuse in the middle of the night, and being locked into a filthy waiting room.

Rude? Yes (occasionally). Inhumane? No.

Got it?


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## x-press (Jul 24, 2007)

TALKrr said:


> When individuals like myself read "horror" stories like this lady reports , of course , we are very concerned , and honestly attempt to be as understanding as we can possibly be. At least that is the way it is with me. Sometimes we DO question certain aspects of the story, because they may not seem to make sense to us. I would not call this "trashing."-----just analysis.
> My intent was not to "trash" the lady who reports the story. However, there are simply parts of the story that do not make sense to me , from my own EXPERIENCE.


Exactly, TALKrr! We're giving our impressions of the story. If people think every word of it is the unbiased truth, so be it, and there should certainly be serious firings in Chicago.

I AM somewhat dismayed by the "doesn't surprise me a bit" attitude of certain posters. As if Amtrak employees simply lock people into waiting rooms when it suits them!

An example of the "other side of the story." Years ago, on a Crescent with frozen coach toilets, Amtrak employees were letting coach passengers use unoccupied sleeper toilets. At some point, my friend and I heard an Amtrak employee and woman (coach passenger) arguing. The Amtrak employee seemed very angry, and borderline abusive, and a door was slammed. My friend immediately wrote it off as "typical Amtrak; deplorable customer service," and I was miserable. Later, in the dining car, we were told by PASSENGERS (not employees), that the crew had been wonderful during the bathroom episode, providing free meals, assistance, and overall fine service given the (otherwise unnacceptable) conditions. The woman had been loud, drunk and abusive to both passengers and crew for much of the day. It was only by the crew's tolerance that she hadn't been put off the train long before.


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## RailFanLNK (Jul 24, 2007)

One thing I can think of is the PV people getting better service would be the one and only MONEY! Yes, if I had a PV I wouldn't spend a minute on the Amtrak train and spend all the time in the railcar I'm paying big money for. But some people who have the money to spend on that could have easily forked over a couple thousand to a few employees and said, "take care of us". Even though thats wrong, thats may of what happened with that part of the scenario. I was just in Aspen while taking the CZ to GSC and you wouldn't believe how wealthy and how much some money is used in such an ignorant or egotistical way.


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## MrFSS (Jul 24, 2007)

x-press said:


> TALKrr said:
> 
> 
> > When individuals like myself read "horror" stories like this lady reports , of course , we are very concerned , and honestly attempt to be as understanding as we can possibly be. At least that is the way it is with me. Sometimes we DO question certain aspects of the story, because they may not seem to make sense to us. I would not call this "trashing."-----just analysis.
> ...


Which goes to show - there are always at least two sides to these stories. The comments in the article provided were only one side.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 24, 2007)

> the reason I didn't complain is because she told me she had a young daughter.


While I can appreciate the sentiment, the question is, where do we draw the line? What level of abysmal misbehavior does that merit our ignoring? What level of mistreatment of passengers, of inflicted misery, should that justify? What amount of lost business, of bad word-of-mouth advertising from enraged passengers, do we justify based on "well, she has a child"? None. If she loses her job, then she, not you, is the one responsible for the effects on her child, and she is the one to blame. And she is the ONLY one.

The only way Amtrak can rid itself of staff that are actively boring holes in the hull of this ship is for folks to report them, and for management to then appropriately deal with them. If management doesn't find out about the misbehavior, they can't try to fix the problem. And the longer those bad apples exist, the more they make it well-nigh impossible for passenger rail to be successful.

If we don't report misbehaving employees, WE ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. One thing to consider is that if Amtrak sinks because of the unreported and uncorrected misbehavior of staff like that, then all the other loyal, hardworking, courteous staff, the ones that deserve a position, AND ALL THEIR CHILDREN, will be out on the street. And we will be partly to blame.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 24, 2007)

rail rookie said:


> One thing I can think of is the PV people getting better service would be the one and only MONEY! Yes, if I had a PV I wouldn't spend a minute on the Amtrak train and spend all the time in the railcar I'm paying big money for. But some people who have the money to spend on that could have easily forked over a couple thousand to a few employees and said, "take care of us". Even though thats wrong, thats may of what happened with that part of the scenario. I was just in Aspen while taking the CZ to GSC and you wouldn't believe how wealthy and how much some money is used in such an ignorant or egotistical way.


The problem is, it would be highly unlikely that private car passengers could even acess the amtrak train. Has anyone ever seen a transition sleeper on the back when private cars are in use? I have never seen or heard of this. And by the way, i have leased a private car before, so I am speaking from some experience here.

Also, I know that 90% of private cars are leased with a chef and attendant included, as well as all food and beverages paid for.

I just cannot believe that part of the story. UNLESS anyone can say that they have seen a transition sleeper in use when coupled to private cars, then I would say that it is possible, although still highly unlikely.


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## MrFSS (Jul 24, 2007)

Well - I joined *3cents worth * and that allowed me to email the lady who left the post on that site. I'll let everyone know if she answers my questions about the car(s) attached to the end of the train. If she answers that question I'll try to probe for other information about the trip.

Tom


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

I wonder if she was simply mistaken about the passengers from the private car. Maybe they told her they were from the private car, when they might actually have been a group traveling together who took up one whole car. I'm hoping she answers MrFss's questions.

Overall, I think her other complaints wouldn't have been mentioned if it was not for the horrendous treatment encountered in CUS. These other problems were just the icing on the cake.

Once we passengers are in a train, we are at the mercy of the attendant. With some of them, if they have a bad day, we passengers are going to have an even worse one. For some this is the first time in their lives they have power and they're too ignorant to know how they're supposed to use their power.

As far as being dismayed by the "doesn't surprise me a bit" attitude, nobody said that Amtrak employees simply lock people in waiting rooms when it suits them. The fact that it happened is another example of mis-used power.

Yes, you have valid points Amtrak WPK. I have regretted not reporting her.


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## had8ley (Jul 24, 2007)

TALKrr said:


> Let me add my comments.
> First of all, I am a very experienced Amtrak traveler , with over a hundred-thousand miles to my credit. I do not mention this to brag, but simply to validate the fact that I am very familiar with the "system" and how it works. I have traveled over every one of Amtrak's long-distance routes (first-class), most numerous times.
> 
> First-class passengers we placed in the same hotel that Amtrak uses for its crews. It was not a four-star hotel , but quite adequate.
> ...


Just some points to ponder; Amtrak does not always use the crew rest hotels for mis-connected passengers.

Is it possible these private varnish people wanted to see "how the other half" travels and de-trained at a station stop and walked up to the Amtrak portion of the train? The current Amtrak timetable shows Homewood to be 25 miles from Chicago Union Station. I would not like accomadations so far away but it beats the floor of any public facility.


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## jim55 (Jul 24, 2007)

I fear, I believe her, don't want to, but do. The security guards name would have also been in my complaint. She may have confused private car passengers with a coach tour group. It's already been proven on this board that tour groups, coach or sleeper, get priority over other "Full Fare" 1st class passengers. The parking lot trouble in Mich could have been a scam to steal the car from a more remote lot. At a Greatfull dead concert at Chicagos Soldier Stadium, a group of guys in orange safety vests ussured cars to an unauthorised lot, charged x$ to park, then took off. During the concert the city towed all the cars and these folks had to try and convince authorities while under the influence of "whatever they smoke at those concerts. Jim


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## MrFSS (Jul 24, 2007)

I have an email back from the lady who posted the review that this discussion is all about. I have asked her permission to post her response she sent me. I won't do that until she says it is OK to do so. If and when I do, I think we'll find she was being very truthful about everything she said. Shae also said what you saw on her post on my3cents is what she sent to Amtrak, but she hasn't heard back from them, yet. I'll keep you posted.

Tom


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jul 24, 2007)

Just a few comments: First, not too long ago, a Metra Police officer was murdered at a Metra Electric station not too far from Homewood, so there is reason to believe that it's a bad area. Second, as others have said, it is likely that the parking lot repaving was a scam, as I have experienced a similar thing in downtown Atlanta.

Hopefully this won't turn into a 5 page argument as several other threads about this type of thing have recently.


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## MrFSS (Jul 24, 2007)

The lady who posted on My3cents has given me permission to post her responses to questions I asked her. Here is the first post I received from her. I have not changed anything other than to correct some spelling.



> _Yes, the cars were private and pulled from behind. The people had full access to our trains. They did wear lanyards to identify them. Things were ok until we got to about Santa Fe or Albuquerque where we picked up a bunch more of these cars that they had "left" there the week before. That night, the diner car was a riot. Our service was terrible, but these people were ordering drinks. We ate our dinner before we saw them order any food, so I don't know if they ever did order food or not... I am not sure how many people were on these cars. There were about 5 people for sure on the one that we started with from Chicago, but we did add more on the 2nd day of our trip. I talked with members of the first group - two were seated with us for breakfast. They said Amtrak takes them everywhere in their refurbished train car. They were members of some sort of club, but I do not now know the name.__ _
> 
> _Believe me, my information only scratched the surface, so if you need any more details, feel free to contact me. The letter you read was the letter I was told by an Amtrak Service Rep. (On the phone) to send to Washington DC which I did. I sent the letter one week ago. I have not heard back since. I also took Amtrak's online survey and was told I would be contacted, but I have not been contacted yet._
> 
> ...


And her follow up when I asked if OK to post her responses.



> _Sure. You can share my information. If someone would have told me this story, I would have thought twice before I roped my whole family into the cross country trip. It definitely is a thinker now - to bring kids or an elderly Mom or Dad. I travel often with my mother. I have no idea what I would have done with her that night.__ _
> 
> _Anyway...no, I really don't know how the people got on our car. Later in the trip, however, our stops may have been frequent enough that they could get off and on in our other stops. Each time I saw the people come into the dining car; they came from the observation car. They were given dinner reservation times too. Maybe they would just hang out in the observation and dining car until they could go back on a stop?_


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## Windy City LSA (Jul 24, 2007)

I won't give my 3 cents. but my two. 

From what I know, Homewood is in fact kind of dodgy. What is more astounding to me is how utterly ridiculous it is that Amtrak would bus people to a hotel THAT far away. They must get a heck of a deal! If they wanted to go to the suburbs, there are a multitude of towns much closer than Homewood. I'm not sure of their negotiations with hotels, but as as a former employee, I recall their choices were sometimes strange...in that we'd pass up half a dozen or so hotels on the sometimes long drive from the train station to the actual hotel we'd stay at.

I've been following this thread since last night. I think it was cool of Mr. FSS to join that site and correspond with the victim.

I believe her, but think she was exaggerating. The part about Swisshotel and Hyatt and the other hotel??? I think not. Those are luxury hotels for crying out loud. In her response, it does sound like these private rail people were allowed on the train. Obviously they boarded it at a stop since it's impossible for them to be connected as previously mentioned. Guess she was just at the wrong place at the wrong time for that occurance. It's out of the ordinary.

As for the whole thing with spending the night at the station, the description sounded quite dramatic. It read like a novel. The station technically *does* close at midnight. It's not 24 hour like an airport with cots and blankets provided. I could sort of understand why security wouldn't want them wandering around the station. But if they were told things like they should have been put out on the street?? Wow. That's pretty bad. I think I would have opted for the far away hotel...even if they had "three hour nap" specials many years ago.

All I can say is that I hope she follows up with her complaint. And like another responder mentioned and I have in the past, everybody must report these bad apples...in DETAIL...to Amtrak. Otherwise nothing will happen to correct it for sure. I worked side by side with a few questionable folks lacking some people skills. I know they exist. Like I've preached before, Amtrak is at the OBS employees mercy to some extent. It's NOT an easy job...working onboard a passenger train...for many reasons. Therefore, it's impossible to do any mass firing because the retention rate of new employees is so poor. I'm proof of that!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

I am the writer of the original complaint you are all discussing. As I said in the letter, I was one of the biggest Amtrak fans around. This was by no means my first cross country trip with Amtrak. Hmmm, not that I feel the need to defend myself at all :

1. After midnight in the city of Chicago at Union Station, we opted as parents to not drag our kids and luggage out into the streets and to a hotel when we were going to try to get a connection less than 8 hours later. No, at the end of a vacation, I did not want to spend an additional 200 dollars plus for less than 8 hours in the room. As it was, we were at the Greyhound station by 7:30 a.m. and in line for our bus to Michigan.

2. We took velcro cushions out of the child playroom and slept on them. We destroyed nothing and were hurting nobody.

3. There is no exaggeration in my letter. Believe me or don't believe me. It all happened and then some.... When I reread my letter, I only see all the stuff I left out.


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## CA Amtrak (Jul 24, 2007)

I might be taking my first Amtrak trip on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle. What are the chances that the same nightmare might happen again?


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## rtabern (Jul 24, 2007)

Sadly, I believe most of what the blog entry says too (except about the number of the in-coming Southwest Chief... it's 4, not 5... and also that private car people eating in the diner... usuaully private cars are single-level and you can't even travel from the private cars into the Superliner equipment because they don't connect up.. and most times private car folks have their own chef)

Anyhow, why do I believe her?

Well... because I've had some hostile encounters with staff at Chicago Union Station myself. I live in Milwaukee and my folks live in the north suburbs of Chicago... and usually when I go down to visit them (about 2-4 times a month), I usually try and take in a train trip somewhere on Amtrak and usually leave out of Chicago.

Yeah, I've had some nasty run-ins down there. First, I am a Select Plus member of the AGR program and have been for 2 years. One of the biggest perks for me is the unlimited access to the Metropolitan Lounge.

All you're supposed to do is show them your 'gold card' and you should be admitted into the lounge with no questions asked. I qualified for the program in October 2006 and the first three or four times I tried to use it the attendant in there had no idea what the card was and denied me access. It wasn't until I threw a big stink by calling an AGR manager and one of the head people of Chicago Union Station did I get this resolved. Then... this past April... while connecting between two Metra trains... I was denied access because I didn't have an Amtrak ticket. The 'gold card' brouche says you clearly have UNLIMITED access to the lounge... Amtrak ticket or not. Again, I was in the right. But it took another call to an AGR manager and one of the head people at Chicago Union Station to get this solved.

I also believe her about sleeping at the station... after a trip I took on the California Zephyr.

Ok, the story with that... well... Between December 1 and December 5 (2006), I took a 5-day train ride for fun between Milwaukee, WI and Reno, NV. It was actually a great trip and I had a great sleeping car attendant on the Zephyr (Mark)... and a wonderful ride and everything... especially through the Rockies in the winter-time.

No complaints on the actual train.

But Union Station was a different deal.

On 12/5/06, the Zephyr was 6 hours late into Chicago... we should have gotten in around 3:20pm, but instead got in around 9:30pm. The problem with that was the last train to Milwaukee for the night left Chicago just after 8:00pm.

So, I went to see the passengers services people.

They told me that my options were either to take the 12:05am Greyhound bus back to Milwaukee... OR... spend the night in the hotel down in Homewood.

Well... I told them the Greyhound really wouldn't work since my car was actually at Amtrak's Milwaukee Airport (MKA) stop and not the downtown Milwaukee (MKE) stop. The 2 representatives I talked to seem shocked and didn't even know anything about a Milwaukee Airport (MKA) stop. I mean it is a somewhat new stop, but it's also a popular stop on the route of the Hiawatha and is less than 80 miles from Union Station... where they work.

Anyhow, after flubbing around and looking up the airport stop and realizing they couldn't provide me transportation there... they were going to put me up in that hotel in Homewood.

And yes, the van comes at Noon the next afternoon like the lady said. When I told the lady at Union Station that I didn't want to wait until Noon to go back to Milwaukee (I wanted the 6:15am Hiawatha back to Milwaukee), she said, well, "I guess your only option to go into the Great Hall and sleep on a bench there".

Nice... after spending $700 on a bedroom!!

Luckily my folks live in Chicago. So I called my mom up who lives in Glenview (20 miles north of Chicago), and she said that I could go and spend the night at her place.

I told the Amtrak woman that I was just going to catch the Metra to my parents in Glenview (saving them the expense of a bus ticket and hotel room!)... but could I have like $10 for the cab from Glenview to my mom's condo? (I felt like I was entitled to atleast that!)

She said NO... and that the only way she would give me a voucher for any cash would be if I had accepted their offer of staying the Homewood Hotel.

So, I just lied and said, "fine, I'll take the hotel".

I got the hotel voucher and about $45.00 in cash that way.

I ended up just staying at my mom's condo... ripped up the hotel voucher... paid for the cab from Glenview to my mom's place and had $35 left over.

It would have been MUCH cheaper if they just gave me the measly $10 I asked for.

But hey, whatever.

I'm still an avid Amtrak lover and still ride the train almost every weekend... and yes, most Amtrak people have been great... especially on the trains. But there are definetly some bad apples at Chicago Union Station.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

Again, I am the original writer of the letter you discuss....

In reading more posts I still tell you I'm not exaggerating. Also, if you read carefully, I quoted an Amtrak employee as saying that they usually put people at Swisshotel, Westin, and Hyatt. I too found the quote totally hard to believe, and I didn't believe her one bit. That is why I included her quote in the letter. On expedia, the hotel they wanted to send us to had one star, amenities from other hotels in their rooms, but a free breakfast ( which was described as horrible) - that would save amtrak some money. I'm still glad I didn't go there, and even more glad I made it home with my family safely.

For the person who wishes to take the Empire Builder, I would tell you that was a great trip for us. It was completely the opposite of the trip in my complaint letter to Amtrak. We had a lovely trip from Chicago to Seattle. The food was great, the service awesome, air conditioning was a bit broken but we managed, and we have great memories of that train. Going along the Mississippi River on the first night as sunset was breathtaking and you will never see the Cascades as you will on the train early on the last morning of the ride. The staff told us to get up early to see the ride thru the Cascades, and it was awesome. So, I don't know what to tell you about Amtrak. I'm torn myself. I bragged to everyone how it was the only way to travel...and now here I am sending this scathing message. I really do not want a thing from Amtrak. I really don't. I think what I want is for everyone's trip to be like the one we took on the Empire Builder about 4 years ago... I know Amtrak can be better. Maybe if I complain, it will get better.


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## rtabern (Jul 24, 2007)

Dear "Unregistered"...

From what I've seen -- and I am down at Union Station in Chicago a lot -- it's about a 50/50 chance if you're going to get that hotel down in Homewood if they have to put you up.

My guess (and again, this is just my guess) is they will put people up at the downtown hotels during non-peak travel periods when they can get a good rate at one of those 3 hotels. When it's around any sort of holiday period or the busy summer travel season... you're more than likely going to be put up in Homewood.


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## TALKrr (Jul 24, 2007)

I am totally confused related to who these "mystery" passengers were and where they came from.

First of all, if they really were traveling in a private car attached to the train, wouldn't they need tickets to enter the Amtrak train. Where was the conductor who permitted this. Surely it is against policy.

Could this group of people been members of a tour group from COACH on the train. I have encountered groups like this before and they DID wear lanyards and nametags. I know from experience (on the Zephyr) that these tour groups CAN get priority service in the dining-car before first-class passengers.

So members of the group went to the dining-car but only to DRINK ? That seems odd. Would a dining-car steward permit individuals to sit in the dining-car and order nothing but alcoholic beverages ? Also, would this steward question members of this group to ask what they were doing on the train in the first place ?

Another comment about the hotel situation. I am confused. What kind of transportation was the family (or group) offered to/from the station. The lady did not specify. Was it a cab, a van , a bus ? Just what ? Also, how many individuals were in this "group" she speaks of ?

Furthermore, I simply cannot fathom why Amtrak would opt to send this group over 25 miles to a hotel where they could over-nite. Again, it just does not make sense to me.

Lastly, I have personally stayed at a hotel chosen by Amtrak for my over-nite. It just happened to be the same hotel where they house their crews overnite. However, I am certain this does not have to be one of the "criteria." If my memory serves me right, it was a Roadway Inn. I would call it a 3-star place. Quite clean and comfortable----and certainly not a "dive."

Over the course of a year, it would be my guess hat Amtrak over-nites hundreds of first-class passengers who missed their connections. How many of these individuals would actually describe Amtrak's hotel choice as a complete "dive." ? Now its not going to be 5-star , or even 4-star , perhaps. BUT, these hotels certainly MUST be clean and safe and comfortable at least in my opinion.

Here is something else I thought of: WHY was this lady convinced that her family could not possibly get back to the station in time to make the next mornings train ? Again, this does not make sense ? What was she told ? And again, related to this issue is, what type of transportation was offered to take this family (group) to their hotel. Surely some arrangement could have been made to get everybody back to the station in time the next morning. Again, I am confused about THAT whole situation.

Finally, MUCH can change in 20-30 years. Come on !! What are the chances that this "once seedy" hotel is totally different today , with a totally different reputation ?

A lot of "mystery" seems to be involved with this story.


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## rtabern (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm not the original poster here, but I did have a run-in at Chicago also after being late (see above post).

And I can confirm that Amtrak does have a deal worked out with a hotel down in Homewood to house late passengers. (That's where they were putting up people when the Zephyr arrived in late when I was on it back on 12/5/06)

The reason?

Well, during busy times of the year (holidays, summer, Thanksgiving-New Years) hotel prices in Chicago are sky-high ($250+). So it's much cheaper for Amtrak to put people up in suburban Homewood.

I am sure both management and the passengers prefer to put people up at downtown hotels... and I've seen that happen too... especially during non-peak travel periods of the year... but like I said, it's probably all about cost.

And they usually bus people to the hotel in a chartered bus. I've seen them use a van vary rarely... like in cases less than 16 passengers need to be put up in the hotel.

Generally though, the places where they put up the crew are nice hotels. I volunteer as a tour guide for Amtrak... (Trails and Rails)... it's a 2-day deal... so we stay overnight in Minnesota at the same hotel as the 2 conductors and enginner... and it's nice. I mean no pool or anything, but the continental breakfast is great... the rooms are nice... and the hotel folks are friendly.


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## The Metropolitan (Jul 24, 2007)

Wow, what an interesting thread I get to come home to!

I tend to think the experiences described in the narrative (and I do believe them by and large) and more then exception than the rule. Some of you may have read of my worst Amtrak ride to date, which all started in Union Station with a 5.5 hour late departure on the Cardinal that kept getting pushed back due to freezing problems in the cars. During the time leading up to Midnight, (we finally left not too long before that) we kept getting an increasing vibe of hostility from some of the staff, and seemed to be getting a hint that we needed to be out of there by midnight, either on a train or on the street. I will say that Mary, the Customer Service Rep., did do a commendable job in holding her composure against an increasingly antagonistic crowd.

Really, my only exception to the narrative is the opinion that "this is no way for a First Class Passenger to be treated." I would append that this is no way for _ANY_ passenger to be treated. Therein, I kind of detect that there may be an air of extra entitlement as a Sleeper Passenger. I would hope not - perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but just as I've seen some rude employees, I've seen some very arrogant passengers, including some in the sleepers who may deem themselves "better" than the unwashed masses in the coaches. The mention of the term "First Class" nearly half a dozen times in the review kind of leads me to detect some degree of "snootiness" at work here, so I don't know if that could have overshadowed just how the passenger interacted with those that she encountered, and if that could have amplified the negative way in which they were treated.

However, I don't see anything very over the top, or unbelievable in the review. The reviewer seemed to go to lengths to give praise where appropriate, be fair withouth being nitpicky about things that may be subpar without being detestable, and saves most of the complaining for the pair of Employees at CUS.

I've been on both sides, having driven city buses for 11 years, having been by and large a model employee who did recieve a good share of commendations. I've seen where complaints by passengers were totally exaggerated. I've also had my days where I was not having a good day, but certainly could not afford to take off, so I carried an attitude I might later regret out there to the public. It's not always easy to put up a phoney PR face when you have personal problems mounting on you at the same time. I know, I've been there.

Back to Amtrak, I've had my less than stellar rides, the worst being on the Cardinal in February, where following our train crapping out in the hills of West Virginia, we as Coach passengers got NO info at all on what was going on after sitting for quite some time while darkness set in on the West Virginia sky - not an experience I would care to repeat by any means.

Still, I've had some fantastic experiences on the train as well, from Service Attendants and Car Atttendants to Telephone Agents and Station Agents who went to great lengths to help "find" a friend of mine who got diverted when a detour separated us, and help put my mind at ease. It's these experiences that I try to focus on when choosing to ride Amtrak.

Unfortunately, however, I always tend to carry the mantra of expect the worst and hope for the best. I never head in expecting that I'm going to be well taken care of. I tend to start off expecting that the Employee might be surly, and could be having a bad day. Fortunately, I'm much more often that not pleased that my expectations were too low, and on regular occasion delighted to find that I was completely off base, and in awe of how good the service I recieve is. I guess there is SOME good in this - if ALL Amtrak Employees were absolutely top notch, they'd all be pretty forgettable, and so would many of the voyages!


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jul 24, 2007)

Maybe it would help if one of those who has experienced the Homewood hotel gave us the name of it so we can better understand the situation...


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## EmpireBuilderFan1976 (Jul 24, 2007)

CA Amtrak said:


> I might be taking my first Amtrak trip on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle. What are the chances that the same nightmare might happen again?


Practically none.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

EmpireBuilderFan1976 said:


> CA Amtrak said:
> 
> 
> > I might be taking my first Amtrak trip on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle. What are the chances that the same nightmare might happen again?
> ...


My husband and I also will be taking the EB to Seattle (and back)in September. I'm resting on the 'practically none' chances that this story will happen to us  . But I am worried about the _Late_ Shore Limited which we also will be taking from Boston to Chicago :unsure:

However, I went to the blog and read the woman's report ... somewhere she said she was a school teacher (I think), her original report doesn't _write_ like a school teacher's report. :huh:

Thank you for allowing me to post on your forum.

Guest


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 24, 2007)

For the guest poster that this happened to, you certainly have our support in complaining to Amtrak. I gather you have sent a complaint to Amtrak - I hope it was as full of every last detail as possible, including names of the offending employees, and PLEASE do let us know what the response is. While we may not want to believe every horror story, and I'm sure some are exaggerated, at the same time we have all probably seen things that shouldn't have happened, and we need to (if you'll pardon the pun) blow the whistle when we see it. When a compound horror story like yours comes along, it REALLY needs to get to Amtrak HQ, with all the details. We ALL want to see the bad eggs thrown out. That won't happen unless they're identified to management.


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## Windy City LSA (Jul 24, 2007)

TALKrr said:


> Could this group of people been members of a tour group from COACH on the train. I have encountered groups like this before and they DID wear lanyards and nametags. I know from experience (on the Zephyr) that these tour groups CAN get priority service in the dining-car before first-class passengers.
> So members of the group went to the dining-car but only to DRINK ? That seems odd. Would a dining-car steward permit individuals to sit in the dining-car and order nothing but alcoholic beverages ? Also, would this steward question members of this group to ask what they were doing on the train in the first place ?


Ah-ha! This makes total sense to me. The group probably WAS traveling in coach. Honest misunderstanding. They often do wear large nametags. Like others have mentioned, it is unlikely folks traveling in a private car would enter the Amtrak portion of the trainset. It would also be unusual for a LSA to allow a group in the Dining Car just to drink...unless it was a very generous LSA. That would be out of the ordinary. They would normally be asked to move the party to the lounge.

Also like The Metropolitan touched on...the "first class passengers deserve better" thing is not good. The term "first class" is almost as dated as "porter". We were discouraged from using that term in fact. NOBODY deserves treatment like that.

I don't think anybody is attacking the victim. It's just that when such a lengthy, dramatic letter is submitted to ANY company, it's likely going to be picked apart and discredited...at least in part. Kind of like what has happened here. Better to just state the facts and complaints in a direct and quick-to-the-point manner...leaving out the high emotions, tears and any unnecessary details.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

AlanB said:


> Perhaps when he has time, Clearfork will share his impressions of his missed connection in Chicago. I'm not sure how he might feel about how customer service treated him, since we didn't go into that. But from what he told me, his hotel was far from a prison like atmosphere.


Well, let me tell you. If you have a chance, go to http://www.swissotel.com/chicago/. This is the hotel Amtrak put my family in after arriving in Chicago 13 hours late on the Empire Builder. Actually, I must admit, I had convinced my family that we could walk to it from Union Station. Turns out I didn't know Chicago as well as I thought. After heading the wrong way on Wacker for several blocks (at 5am), caught a cab and asked him to take us to the "Swiss Hotel". He took us to the "SwissOtel". I honestly thought it he took us to the wrong place. Very classy. And, we only spent six hours there. Took a five hour nap, showered and headed out on the town. And, Amtrak gave us two rooms since we had a party of five. Stored our luggage in the hotel as we explored Navy Pier and did an architecture cruise up the Chicago River (best docent ever!). Amtrak gave us $80 to cover meals and cab fare. Must admit, I ended up spending more, but we had a very cool day in Chicago.

Here's the thing. When the airlines cannot connect you, or your flight is late or cancelled, you're on your own. Though anxious to get home, I was very pleased with the way Amtrak provided for my family.


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## clearfork (Jul 24, 2007)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps when he has time, Clearfork will share his impressions of his missed connection in Chicago. I'm not sure how he might feel about how customer service treated him, since we didn't go into that. But from what he told me, his hotel was far from a prison like atmosphere.
> ...



I forgot to say who I was. Must be train-lag....


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## Windy City LSA (Jul 24, 2007)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps when he has time, Clearfork will share his impressions of his missed connection in Chicago. I'm not sure how he might feel about how customer service treated him, since we didn't go into that. But from what he told me, his hotel was far from a prison like atmosphere.
> ...


Wow. I am genuinely shocked that they use Swissotel. Maybe even a little jealous considering some of the fleabag joints they put crews in.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

The Metropolitan said:


> I guess there is SOME good in this - if ALL Amtrak Employees were absolutely top notch, they'd all be pretty forgettable, and so would many of the voyages!


You've got that wrong! Take a cruise. Now *that's*memorable. It's memorable because the employees are top notch! They're underpaid and overworked but still provide service that would leave Amtrak service sitting in the dust.


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## The Metropolitan (Jul 24, 2007)

Reading back through this thread, the original narrative, and Windy City's insider posts in particular, it seems as if Amtrak could have prevented an awful lot of negativity if only they were just a bit more selective about where they line up their hotel arrangements, and if management posed the question "Where would I reasonably want to stay?" instead of "Where's the cheapest place?"

It's understandable that the city is going to be quite expensive particularly on short notice in peak season, but there are decent hotels in nice areas in the suburbs that are quite reasonable. Evanston has a reasonable Best Western, and if all else fails, there are a pair of Marriott properties right next to the Lake Cook Metra Station that would probably be much nicer than the dreaded place in Homestead. Sure its 22 miles from CUS, but so is Homestead.

I'd think that the original complaint might have never been registered if only someone in Customer Services or Amtrak contracts saw to it to refer their passengers to properties that were in sketchy areas.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 24, 2007)

Years ago when I had to rely on Amtrak's hotel due to a late train and missed connection, the Station Master took care of all of the passengers. He did a terrific job and accommodated us in every way possible.

So who is responsible for taking care of the passengers now? Is it whoever happens to be in the vicinity? Do they no longer have one person responsible for ascertaining that everything goes smoothly? If no one person is responsible and responsibility is shared by several people, you then have a situation where nobody is responsible.

The crew chief used to be responsible for the crew. Who is responsible now? Nobody? Anybody who happens to be nearby?

They need better checks and balances. They also need to have their executives keep their hands on the pulse of what's happening on their trains. How? Have them read these forums and blogs.


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## The Metropolitan (Jul 24, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> The Metropolitan said:
> 
> 
> > I guess there is SOME good in this - if ALL Amtrak Employees were absolutely top notch, they'd all be pretty forgettable, and so would many of the voyages!
> ...


True enough, but I would think people generally take trains more often in their lives than take a cruise ship. Sure there are folks that would never set foot on either, but I speak generally. People routinely skip out on the train on the weekend to visit relatives - not so on the big boat.

I will concede that the cruise ship workers from what I've heard, are astounding in the level of service they provide, working long hours for a relative pittance, and I do take my hat off to them. However, if I took a cruise, I might never return for 5 years due to the cost, so such a trip would be certainly be quite memorable.

In just the past year, I've taken 15 trips (as long as 2 days and as short as 40 minutes) on Amtrak, and a number of them just blend together, though a trip on #6/#30, a quick trip on #14, two NE corridor hops, and another one just on #30 stand out as vividly memorable due to the great Amtrak personnel aboard, while the hell trip on #50 stands out as the worst for the same reason. The rest just fizzle together as rather forgettable as the service ranged from politely passable to borderline dismal.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2007)

Do they have phones from trains to stations? If a three day train was 5 hours late which is what I understand, didn't Chicago have 5 hours to plan for this? Shouldn't arrangements have been made?


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## TVRM610 (Jul 24, 2007)

> The lady who posted on My3cents has given me permission to post her responses to questions I asked her. Here is the first post I received from her. I have not changed anything other than to correct some spelling.
> 
> _Yes, the cars were private and pulled from behind. The people had full access to our trains. They did wear lanyards to identify them. Things were ok until we got to about Santa Fe or Albuquerque where we picked up a bunch more of these cars that they had "left" there the week before. That night, the diner car was a riot. Our service was terrible, but these people were ordering drinks. We ate our dinner before we saw them order any food, so I don't know if they ever did order food or not... I am not sure how many people were on these cars. There were about 5 people for sure on the one that we started with from Chicago, but we did add more on the 2nd day of our trip. I talked with members of the first group - two were seated with us for breakfast. They said Amtrak takes them everywhere in their refurbished train car. They were members of some sort of club, but I do not now know the name._



O.K. NOW this makes some sense! I have been trying to figure this very odd part of the story out, but her response answered my question. This is what I believe (could be wrong though):

The "Club" that they were referring to is, I am almost certain, AAPRCO, or American Association of Private Rail Car Owners (www.aaprco.com > A very cool resource by the way). These were car OWNERS, most likely riding the cars on a dead head move. Many times car owners travel with their cars as attendants, and also hire a chef to do the cooking on board. Since chef's cost money, it is sometimes cheaper for the car owners to fly the chef back to their home, rather than ride the dead-head move back. (Obviously this depends how far the car is from its home.) So if a bunch of car owners are without a chef, let's just eat in the dining car on Amtrak. Since they own the cars, they travel in them plenty and dont mind riding the train for some portions. I am sure that they moved to the train at station stops, and then, as has been suggested, hung out in the lounge until the next stop, where they moved back to their own cars.

I am very sorry for doubting the original writer's story, but this was such an odd thing, I had never really considered this. The thought of someone paying for a private car and then eating in the Amtrak diner is crazy, but I had never thought about this owners scenario. Since they own their own cars, they have to be very familiar with the Amtrak Conductors anyway, so I'm sure the Conductors wouldnt have a problem allowing them to transfer to the train to hang out in the lounge and eat in the diner.

Now as for the LSA and the diner, I imagine that they were in fact eating dinner. It could be that they were not served food yet because the LSA knew that they had regular passengers like yourself waiting to be fed ahead of these car owners, and was giving passengers like yourself priority. Since they had ordered wine, it had been served while they were waiting for their food. Perhaps the LSA was being extra kind to them since they were being understanding and waiting their turn. (and since SDS is active on this train, they were not taking up extra tables that could be used by passengers, as these tables would otherwise be empty).

Again, this is just what I THINK happened, I could be 100% wrong, but I have leased my own private car before, I know a couple of private car owners, and know a little bit how these things work.

I actually feel bad for these private car owners. They could no longer be able to transfer from their cars to the amtrak train in moves such as this if amtrak really looks into this complaint. That would be unfortunate as they really did nothing wrong, and the dining car situation was really not the main part of the complaint. Unfortunate for them in deed.

edited to fix quote - AmtrakWPK


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## oldtimer (Jul 25, 2007)

My problem with the original post is that the only train the serves Holland MI is the Pere Marquette which departs at 5:20 pm so a noon departure from the hotel would arrive in CUS early for that train. Next many times Amtrak sends employees out to get on late trains enroute to arrange for missed connections even before the train arrives into Chicago. Also Amtrak forced many of their customer service people under threat of insubordination to work seveal hours after the end of their shift to accomadate late trains and puts these employees under terrible inconvience some even missing the last suburban train home. So consider the employee that you are dealing with may have been forced to work 5-8 hours overtime with no way home, that just may effect anyone's attitude.


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## Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight (Jul 25, 2007)

oldtimer2 said:


> Also Amtrak forced many of their customer service people under threat of insubordination to work seveal hours after the end of their shift to accomadate late trains and puts these employees under terrible inconvience some even missing the last suburban train home. So consider the employee that you are dealing with may have been forced to work 5-8 hours overtime with no way home, that just may effect anyone's attitude.


Point well taken. However, I have been sorta forced to remain on the train (being I was an on board attendant at the time) whereas I was supposed to "swing" to another train to get back home to my home terminal for the end of my trip. Of course not making home that day and spending my first day off deadheading home really fouled my plans I had for my personal time (had a doctor appointment, etc).

So yeah, I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty! That is management's responsibility to tackle!

OBS gone freight.......


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 25, 2007)

Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:


> I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty! OBS gone freight.......


You, Windy City, and others are the type of employees Amtrak so desperately needs. Isn't there a way Amtrak can identify your kind and keep you as employees? Other industries grade their managers on employee retention.

This gets so frustrating. Anyone on this forum who has ever had a managerial position can see the problems and knows how to fix the problems. Who the heck is sitting on the Amtrak boards? Why don't they change things? They have to know they have a problem.


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## TALKrr (Jul 25, 2007)

I sincerely would like to know more about this in Homewood that Amtrak sometimes uses to over-nite first-class passengers. Could it honestly be considered ONE-star ? This is ridiculous if true.

I need a "heads-up" on this because I am arriving into Chicago on the Chief on September 11th. Posters have stated that Amtrak uses this hotel during "peak" seasons when downtown hotels are too expensive.

If I discover this hotel really is quite undesireable , I will opt to dump it and pay for my own hotel stay if I am placed in the over-nite situation.

And over 25 miles out of town ? What is Amtrak thinking !!

Also, again, I am curious about just HOW Amtrak planned to take her family to the Homewood hotel. Evidently it was NOT by cab. If it was , they could have easily arranged to get back to CUS early enough the next morning to catch the train they needed. If it was not by cab, then of course Amtrak could set the TIME of the transfer back to the station. BUT, knowing that the family had to be back at the station to catch the morning train , WHY would Amtrak be so rigid about the noon departure from the hotel back to CUS ----IF they had tickets for a morning train?


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## RailFanLNK (Jul 25, 2007)

I have quietly in my "rookie" railroading head have thought of being "stuck" in CHI as a "free" way to get one night in the city at a budget cost. But after reading this story and thread, I no longer think of that. I had always been under the impression that missed pax would be in "Chicago" and not some distant and "dodgy" suburb. I had thought of taking the CZ and the CL (I believe it still has a 7:05 departure) to somewhere out east, but I really think it would be easier to fork out my $30 for a night at the HI Chicago Hostel. The thing that really hurts here is this: I am a cheerleader of Amtrak now of major proportions. I have a small group of friends that wants to take the CZ to GSC this March. I called last Friday to inquire about "group rates" but got a little uneasy being the "chaperone" as the CSR called it and having it (the cost) put all on my credit card. Then throw in the attitude of the Dining Car on 7/19 that I experienced, and I don't want 20+ friends of mine experiencing this. Every time I start getting a little brazen on wanting to turn a bunch of friends on to Amtrak, a thread like this comes up and I get a tad fearful. I have learned and even tell my friends it can be a little "punk rock" (a term of anything can happen, cool or crappy) and a lil' "seat of the pants" travel, and most of my friends kinda dig that since WE all have been treated so poorly by the airlines or have sat in our cars on jampacked highways with no where to go. My airline trip from hell wasn't as bad as this story, but similar where I was left shaking my head going, "this can't be happening and there's gotta be a different way".


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## frj1983 (Jul 25, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:
> 
> 
> > I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty!
> ...


This is a question that bounces around in my head, time and time again:

Who is running Amtrak's HR Department? And what exactly are they looking for when they hire people?

Maybe OBS Gone Freight can fill us in on this. I sometimes get the feeling that Amtrak HR in CHicago, goes out into Union Station and grabs the first homeless people they see, clean them off, stuff them in a uniform, and stick 'em on trains with no "training!."

And knowing that you have to work face to face with other human beings (fellow employees or passengers) on a regular basis, why on earth would you apply for a job on Amtrak if you don't like working with other people (which is the general gist you get from many Amtrak employees)? It also seems to me that the HR department goes out of it's way to hire these kind of people. Maybe it's time to fire that entire Department and start over!


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 25, 2007)

The one theme that I have been seeing in this and other threads dealing with Amtrak's operational and passenger service failures is that Amtrak Management needs to be reading these threads, because numerous reports seem to indicate that they have no clue what is happening "in the trenches". My suspicion is that the majority of the corporate mentality of Amtrak is utterly myopic and refuses to allow that anything beyond the NEC even exists, and that whatever happens in the rest of the network happens, period, and that HQ doesn't much concern itself about it. , Regardless, there needs to be a department at Amtrak that reads the contents of this board, and OTOL, and probably some others, and then reports directly to the president of the company to let him know what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING, as opposed to what his dysfunctional "hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil, it-didn't-happen-on-my-watch" chain of command is telling him. This kind of (pardon my french) bullcrap could not continue to happen in a properly functioning organization.

I wonder if perhaps Rafi might inquire along these lines the next time he has occasion to converse with somebody in upper management, or if, the next time one of our members has occasion to report yet another abysmal Amtrak failure, those members might point out our existence and ask why Amtrak isn't monitoring and paying attention, since the same sort of failures seem to be recurring in an endless cycle.....?


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## MrFSS (Jul 25, 2007)

AmtrakWPK said:


> The one theme that I have been seeing in this and other threads dealing with Amtrak's operational and passenger service failures is that Amtrak Management needs to be reading these threads, because numerous reports seem to indicate that they have no clue what is happening "in the trenches". My suspicion is that the majority of the corporate mentality of Amtrak is utterly myopic and refuses to allow that anything beyond the NEC even exists, and that whatever happens in the rest of the network happens, period, and that HQ doesn't much concern itself about it. , Regardless, there needs to be a department at Amtrak that reads the contents of this board, and OTOL, and probably some others, and then reports directly to the president of the company to let him know what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING, as opposed to what his dysfunctional "hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil, it-didn't-happen-on-my-watch" chain of command is telling him. This kind of (pardon my French) bullcrap could not continue to happen in a properly functioning organization.
> I wonder if perhaps Rafi might inquire along these lines the next time he has occasion to converse with somebody in upper management, or if, the next time one of our members has occasion to report yet another abysmal Amtrak failure, those members might point out our existence and ask why Amtrak isn't monitoring and paying attention, since the same sort of failures seem to be recurring in an endless cycle.....?


Maybe what Amtrak needs is an Ombudsman who is completely non-political, non-union, and non-higher management.


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## had8ley (Jul 25, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:
> 
> 
> > I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty!
> ...


Oh Everyday matters;

It's so easy for management to blow off 99.9% of your complaints with a form letter and a voucher why bother to try and fix something that will be funded all over again next year? It also looks like this trip analysis is going to indeed go to 5 pages or more. Even if management reads this I'm sure it hits the shredder for fear someone will get some good ideas on how to run Amtrak.


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## Windy City LSA (Jul 25, 2007)

frj1983 said:


> This is a question that bounces around in my head, time and time again:
> Who is running Amtrak's HR Department? And what exactly are they looking for when they hire people?
> 
> Maybe OBS Gone Freight can fill us in on this. I sometimes get the feeling that Amtrak HR in CHicago, goes out into Union Station and grabs the first homeless people they see, clean them off, stuff them in a uniform, and stick 'em on trains with no "training!."
> ...


Good questions.

Allow me to mention something I failed to in earlier responses. The original story concerned Amtrak station employees. I have been more so referencing OBS employees. Apples to oranges...with exception of required customer service skills. I can imagine working in the station is not easy, either. I've watched that program "Airline" or whatever it's called on A&E. There is just something about travel and things going wrong that sets people off.

But working ON the train...not going home to your bed and family at the end of the day, not to mention the dozen or so other unique difficulties...it's just crazy. If it weren't so bad, I'd still be there. Back to what Everydaymatters touched on...the bad employees out there...in most cases, they're jaded and TIRED. Many of them have been on the rails for 20+ years. In my humble opinion, they should call it a day. But in some cases, they're waiting for their retirement benefits to kick in or whatever it is. Anyway, I think it takes a VERY strong person...physically and emotionally to work in a friendly manner trip after trip. I don't think it's so much that Amtrak goes out of their way to hire bad people. It's more so that they tire with time, or the negativity of bad employees spreads like wildfire to those who are easily influenced. You just can't teach some people that when in a customer service/hospitality role, you have to be "on" ALL THE TIME! Late train, kid is sick at home, whatever. Not the problem of the passenger. Many employees have no concept of that, and the salary and benefits are too good to leave. So they stay and make everybody miserable.

I can give a quick summary of my experience with Amtrak's Chicago HR. It was not as easy as being homeless in Union Station.  It was actually quite a thourough process.

*Responded to an ad for LSA's in June or July.

*Got a call in October. Attended an orientation. There were probably 50 people there. Only 2 left when asked if they could handle the assorted rigors of working on the train. Took a whole bunch of tests.

*Got a call. Had an interview. Took physical. I passed tests and was invited to classroom training.

*Began classroom training in November. Out of all those people at the orientation, only NINE of us passed the tests and made it to training. NINE.

*4 weeks of classroom training. 2 people don't make it after the 4 weeks...didn't pass the final test...asked to leave.

*Took 3 training trips, and had my first solo run in a lounge to KCY on Christmas Day. Then was FURLOUGHED after less than 2 months. By the time I resigned in June, I think there were 3 of us from that class still working. And 2 of those actually were offered and chose to move to other cities/crew bases during the winter furlough.

So, it's not an easy process. They don't accept just anybody. But once out there, I can see how *some* cynical, jaded veterans out there could pollute the minds of newcomers. Speaking for myself...what could Amtrak have done to make me stay??? Basically nothing. Thanks to the union and senority...that's pretty much what did me in. The extra board is a killer. At least it was for me. Had I been able to hold a regular corridor lounge run??? I'd still be there...selling sodas and heating your cinnamon rolls with a smile!

To Rail Rookie and anybody else more worried then ever after reading "bad" things...try not to worry about your future trips. These experiences from hell are NOT the norm. Be positive.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 25, 2007)

Windy City LSA said:


> the negativity of bad employees spreads like wildfire to those who are easily influenced.


This is so true. Case in point, a grocery store, part of a chain, every time a customer left the store, the store manager had some snide remark to say. All the clerks chimed in with bad comments about the customers. The store, in a very well populated area, had few customers.

Another store, same chain in less populated area, always had plenty of customers. Clerks were always cheery and helpful. Everyone was happy.

This is true. I observed the first store in Chicago, the 2nd in Crystal Lake, Illinois.

It just seems so simple. Get rid of the bad ones, keep the good ones. Maybe it's just too simple for Amtrak's powers-that-be to understand.

About the hiring process, I know it's tough. Not from personal experience, but a couple of people I know. One was a crew chief back when they had them. He is still with Amtrak. The other one dropped out because he didn't like being away from his family for prolonged periods of time, so he never hired on. The first one told the 2nd one that the passengers are "always mad and always yelling" at the attendants. It would really take nerves of steel to have to put up with that day to day.

However, if all of the attendants on a train or in the station started out on the right foot with a cheery attitude, you would definitely see a difference in the attitude of the passengers. It's a given. It would definitely work.

Windy City, you couldn't have fought the battle alone. One person can't do it. It takes an overwhelming majority to change attitudes.


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## Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight (Jul 25, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:
> 
> 
> > I was pretty upset and my attitude was in the toilet, literally. But I didn't take it out on the passengers! How is the passengers' fault the employee is in their current situation? Employee issues and Amtrak issues in general are not the passengers' responsibilty!
> ...



Well "everydaymatters,"

Out of coincidence your forum ID name sums it all up in my situation! I was a manager in my former career prior to my tenure at Amtrak. I won't go into detail, but the differences were amazing between the two employers! Windy City pretty much covers the details of the OBS department (where I was employed as well hence my forum name of course). It was a great job! But as Windy City states in her posting (where I believe she covers this in the term "unique difficulties"), is this job starts to bring you down after time! There is very little support for the employees. I personally felt I had no way of providing certain customer services to retain customers when problems arose. For example when there is equipment that doesn't work (we'll use a faulty A/C for example since that has been on the boards recently), I can move an affected passenger to another coach! But what about a whole carload of them and no extra coach? And farthermore, the same problem crops up again and again over the years! That's just one problem! You can read these boards and see all the stuff about equipment problems. There again, that is just one issue the company has! Now let's combine all of Amtrak's issues as a company in the big picture. When we look at the big picture (with a management mindset such as mine), we see the direct results of how this company has been MANAGED!!!!

So everydaymatters,

for me "ever day matters!" Your forum name says it all in this instance! Amtrak furloughed me due to the SDS deal in 2006. I am at a freight railroad, now. I have no plans to leave it! It is managed properly (for the most part), and the difference is clear. Sadly, Amtrak has lost me! I didn't chose the furlough part. I did chose not to exercise my seniorty to chase the job. It wasn't worth it any longer. Things would turn out the same in the long run, so I left in good terms under furloughed status. I won't return at recall. When upper management gets their act together , then things will improve! I'll get off the soapbox, now.

OBS gone freight....


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jul 25, 2007)

From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?


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## Windy City LSA (Jul 25, 2007)

AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?


That's a good point. My best guess is the old saying...they don't make 'em like they used to. Pre-Amtrak is a long time ago, now. Speaking for myself (I'm 37) I don't think people of my generation and younger...and maybe even a bit older than I...have the same work ethic that say, my grandparents did back in the days of a depression and war. People back then were probably thankful to be working and if reflected in their work. They took pride in their work. Many of us in this generation are unfortnately spoiled and have the entire concept of customer service/hospitality all wrong. The jobs wouldn't be there if the customers weren't. Yet many employees in the service industry carry misguided beliefs. and interact with customers as if they're doing them a favor by helping them. Then there is the whole issue of people who are just born malcontents or people with entitlement issues...the ones that think they're doing their employer a favor by working for them. Long story short, individual work ethics aren't what they once were, and service will suffer as a result. Throw a little stress in the mix, and forget about it. That's what I think is the root of many problems, especially in the service and retail industries in general.


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## MrFSS (Jul 25, 2007)

Windy City LSA said:


> AmtrakCrescent20 said:
> 
> 
> > From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?
> ...


And that explains why many jobs are outsourced overseas and many from other countries want to come to the US to work because they know many Americans don't want to work. We will be in a heap of trouble in the not so distant future!


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2007)

MrFSS said:


> And that explains why many jobs are outsourced overseas and many from other countries want to come to the US to work because they know many Americans don't want to work. We will be in a heap of trouble in the not so distant future!


Having worked overseas for most of the last 17 years, I must say this: The US and its work ethic are not near as bad as the whiners like to say it is, and the other parts of the world are not as good as some people seem to think they are. The inabaility of people to "think outside the box" will drive you bonkers outside this country far more than in it. Jobs are going to India and China for one simple reason: LOW WAGES. We could deal with it when the places were Taiwan, the Philippines, etc. because they were smaller countries, and for Taiwan at least have now reached to point of prosperity that the drain is reversing, but to continue to send jobs overseas to places with four times our population is terminal stupidity.

We are not the only ones being stupid in this area, either. About a year or so ago, the company that was British Steel was bought by a company in India. This should have the managers of the era of the British Raj spinning in their graves.

George


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 25, 2007)

Windy City LSA said:


> AmtrakCrescent20 said:
> 
> 
> > From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?
> ...


Well said, Windy City. You have amazing insight. I'm retired, but when I was starting my career, your reputation was everything. You were only as good as your name. A handshake was a solid contract not to be broken because your reputation depended on it. Sadly, things have changed. Very sadly. However, there are still those like yourself whom we depend on to make the future right.


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## AlanB (Jul 25, 2007)

Windy City LSA said:


> AmtrakCrescent20 said:
> 
> 
> > From what everyone has said, it seems that Amtrak can't do anything about its employee problems because there aren't enough good employees, so Amtrak can't fire all the bad ones and still have enough. My question is, how did the pre-Amtrak passenger railroads have almost exclusively friendly employees, as I am led to believe, while Amtrak can't get anywhere near that?
> ...


First, I'm not so sure that the pre-Amtrak employees were always as good as people seem to assume. Time fades the bad things in one's memory.

Second, I can tell you that some of the poorest service that I've ever had was at the hands of employees whom Amtrak inherited from the freight RR's.

I think that a lot had to do with better oversight of the employees, back in the golden years. But oversight also costs money and it requires managers to be held accountable for the actions of their employees. I don't believe that happens at Amtrak. An bad employee may get disciplined or perhaps even fired, but the manager above him doesn't receive some of the pain either. In fact many managers are rewarded for reducing costs, but are not penalized for the poor performance of their employees. Now that is a double edged sword too, as some managers will then become majorly abusive to their employees in an attempt to get them to work, so that the manager can get his/her bonus.

But just like a manager can get rewarded for staying within their budget or coming in under, there needs to be some fall out for employees under said manager who consistently fail to meet the standards of the job. And I don't just mean on the front line employees that the passenger sees, this applies at all levels including cleaning staff, yard workers, and so on. The performance of everyone impacts the passenger in one way or another.


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## AlanB (Jul 25, 2007)

Now for a few other random comments in no particular order.

Most positioning moves do indeed still carry the chef on board. It almost always costs more to fly him/her home, than to bring them back home on the car. And most companies also sell space on a positioning move, in an effort to cover the costs of moving the car, so they do include meal service. It's usually not as elaborate as the main excursion, but it is generally included. So there should be no reason for those passengers to need to eat in the Amtrak diner.

Second, there is the liability factor of allow pax from a private varnish car into the Amtrak train. In fact, Amtrak is currently partnering with GrandLuxe to haul GL cars behind regular Amtrak trains. And they specifically state that there will be no interaction between regular Amtrak pax and GL pax, even though in the case of the Silver trains, there is no impediment to prevent a passenger from walking between the two sections. The whole train will be single level. It's an insurance thing, and if Amtrak isn't going to allow it with their partner, I can't imagine that they would allow it with a private varnish that isn't a partner.

I for one wonder if the person who wrote about this incident, didn't see a tour group that was in coach wearing name tags and just confused that group with the people from the Private cars. And I know that if I was riding in a PV, I sure wouldn't want to wear a name tag. But again, I've never heard of passengers from a private car being allowed on an Amtrak car, since it is a liability issue. Amtrak is not covered against losses if they get hurt while inside the Amtrak car.

And then as other's have mentioned, why anyone would want to leave the lap of luxury for the semi-comfortable bench seating in an Amtrak dining car is beyond me.

Next, personally I'm actually a bit surprised that anyone was even allowed to remain in the station at all. In the past, that station was buttoned up tight as a drum. Back when the Pennsylvanian used to run, it was scheduled in at about 11:30 PM IIRC.

On days that it was extremly late and it arrived after the station was closed, passengers were escorted from the platform by security and usually between police baracades (those metal railing types) right out the closest door, which was also guarded so that no one from the outside could enter. They weren't even given a chance to visit the bathroom, use a phone, or anything. It was off the train, and out the door.

Not to mention that the A/C is controlled by the building above the station, and is shut down at night and on weekends. In fact before it's remodeling, the Metropolitan lounge used to be murder on the weekends. Amtrak installed it's own A/C units when they remodeled the lounge.

Finally, regarding hotels, it would appear that Amtrak uses many different hotels. While I'm sure that cost is an issue for Amtrak, I don't believe that it is the only issue. I think that space is also an issue. Passengers can end up where ever there is space, which in Chicago is often an issue.

But I've seen stories of passengers at the Best Western downtown, a few other hotels, and in another topic here on this board Clearfork reported being sent to a very nice hotel over by the Navy Pier when he and his family mis-connected on the EB this week.

Whether the hotel in Homewood is good or bad, I can't debate since I don't know the hotel. But I don't believe that it is the hotel of first choice either. It can be very tough trying to find 100 hotel rooms on a moments notice when a train mis-connects, especially in Chicago.

And while some hotels that get used by Amtrak crews may be a little less desirable, not all are. Many are in fact rather decent. I've stayed many times at a Doubletree hotel in Boston, which just happens to be where Amtrak puts up Acela FC attendants. I was quite surprised the first time I saw that, as I was checking in at the desk and didn't even notice the person standing next to me, until she said hi to me. I was quite surprised to see the FC attendant that I had just tipped 20 minutes ago standing next to me.


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## oldtimer (Jul 25, 2007)

Let me make some more random comments,

Employee morale is extremely low more work with fewer employees IE SDS, # of coach attendents reduced, Equipment getting older with just cosmetic refurbishing, number of mechanics to repair cars has been cut in half, push for higher car utilization means shorter time to repair cars, and last but not least is management's use of threats and intimidation as their first (and somethimes only) management style. Amtrak's attitude toward contracts is if you do not like the pittance we offer we will contract out your work. The labor talks have been going on since 1999, with a COLA of less then 1% a year while the actual cost of living is 3+%, managers getting 3% + bonuses and most recently and additioal 10% raise for many managers. Managers are very reactive and punitive. Yes the unions do get a lot of employees discipline overturned because the first level investigation was very poorly done and a very prejudicial decision was made. Do the first level managers involved pay any price, NO they keep on getting their raises and bonuses for being under budget.

Now that I have ranted flame away, just remember I had 35 years with AMT, including 11 years on board service.


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## jim55 (Jul 25, 2007)

Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS! Yes, Customers that pay part of the bills, but mostly, elect those that pay the subsidized bill. While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable. BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might rape the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim


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## AlanB (Jul 25, 2007)

oldtimer2 said:


> Amtrak's attitude toward contracts is if you do not like the pittance we offer we will contract out your work. The labor talks have been going on since 1999, with a COLA of less then 1% a year while the actual cost of living is 3+%, managers getting 3% + bonuses and most recently and additioal 10% raise for many managers. Managers are very reactive and punitive.


Just as an FYI, that attitude is changing at least a bit at Amtrak. Just last week Amtrak and the BLET announced a tentative agreement and the details should be sent to the union members within the next week or two, followed by a vote.

So it would seem that Alex Kummant is living up to his promise to get the contracts done.  Finally and at long last.


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## AlanB (Jul 26, 2007)

jim55 said:


> Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS!


Forgive me, but where did I say that Amtrak didn't have problems with employees who deal with pasengers? :unsure:

Although I can tell you that had this recent trip that I just returned home from yesterday, you would have been hard pressed to convince me that they did have bad employees.



jim55 said:


> While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable.


Trust me, you can find that same attitude in many other places beyond Amtrak and Consolidated.



jim55 said:


> BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might rape the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim


One thing that I can assure you of, is that no CEO of Amtrak has ever walked away with a golden parachute. Amtrak doesn't have one to offer, since there is no money and stock to award to the CEO. Most CEO's get stock in the company that they run, all 100% of the Amtrak stock that counts is held in trust for Congress and the American people by the DOT. What common stock there is, is largely held by the freight RR's and is basically worthless paper. It has never paid a dividend and never will, and it carries no voting rights.

In fact most CEO's, including Gunn and the current one Alex Kummant, could probably make far more money else where just on base salary, before one starts to add in the perks that most CEO's can get, but Amtrak can't provide.


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## frj1983 (Jul 26, 2007)

AlanB said:


> jim55 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS!
> ...


Good points AlanB,

I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.


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## MrFSS (Jul 26, 2007)

frj1983 said:


> I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.


I wonder why anyone would want to be president of the US.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 26, 2007)

Power. Ego. Status. Everybody in your party kisses your ........


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## MrFSS (Jul 26, 2007)

AmtrakWPK said:


> Power. Ego. Status. Everybody in your party kisses your ........


And, I guess if you can get four years completed you get a full pension for the rest of your life with medical, protection, and postage!


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## frj1983 (Jul 26, 2007)

MrFSS said:


> frj1983 said:
> 
> 
> > I often wonder why anyone would even want to be CEO of Amtrak, noting how often the Media misrepresents and lampoons it, as well as reporting the most negative things possible. Who could possibly want that job and all it's headaches? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you honestly think you can do something.
> ...


Well,

I have actually asked my self and others that question as well!


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## had8ley (Jul 26, 2007)

jim55 said:


> Sorry Alan B, from what I have seen, and read, many more places than this, Amtrak has problems with employees who deal with CUSTOMERS! Yes, Customers that pay part of the bills, but mostly, elect those that pay the subsidized bill. While in college, I loaded trucks for Consolidated Feightways in Ohio, had to join the teamsters, I watched these clowns have 5 or 6 or more beers for lunch, come back to the dock and throw a Box for Tampa into Truck bound for Seattle and laugh, like they were "teaching the Co. a lesson" I have not seen this attitude untill my expossure to Amtrak. I don't know who has Union backing in Amtrak, it just seems too many employees think they are untouchable. BUT, on the other hand why work hard for a CEO who might rape the Co then bail with a golden Parachute? Jim


I couldn't put it down in writing any better. There used to be an accountability factor in pre-Amtrak days. Today, you are almost challenged to present your point and some OBS almost act like they would love to pass out a few fat lips. The flagrant disrespect for the pax passing through the diner in non-serving hours has got to stop. I know, there are some on this site who have never seen it. I'm glad you haven't but that does not mean that it is not happening. Yes, there were good old days and I'm glad I saw them and was able to travel many miles in Pullmans. I admit we will never have anything close to it (except for Gran Luxe or some other PV) but at least we could should expect civil treatment on each and every trip. I just don't know how many times I have ridden the same train and been subjected to the best of service. The next trip, it seems like someone instructed the crew to be rude to each and every passenger. Go figure~ is it a sign of the times or is this an Amtrak only issue since many of the OBS act like "You're a prisoner 'til we get there."

l


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## TVRM610 (Jul 27, 2007)

Well it looks like we were all wrong after all about the Private Varnish issue.

I just found a trip listed here: www.aaprco.com/Travel_Opportunities/Postings.html for a Private trip, onboard the Southwest Chief, that says

"One way we have kept the fare incredibly low is by foregoing the dinner time meal in the private cars … please adjourn to the Amtrak diner. "Dinner in the Diner" will be each individual's responsibility."

There is also a picture on the clubs website: www.pacificrailroadsociety.org of their very own transition Coach.

So my original thought on the whole car owners idea that I posted was completely off. In fact this lady could have been 100% right. There are private car passengers who do eat in the amtrak dining cars!


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## printman2000 (Jul 27, 2007)

I have also seen a private car trip advertised with the private car being put in front of the transition sleeper so that they could access the dining car. However, since she said the private cars were on the rear, that would not have applied here.

The site you listed below (www.pacificrailwaysociety.org) does not seem to work for me.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 27, 2007)

printman2000 said:


> I have also seen a private car trip advertised with the private car being put in front of the transition sleeper so that they could access the dining car. However, since she said the private cars were on the rear, that would not have applied here.
> The site you listed below (www.pacificrailwaysociety.org) does not seem to work for me.


Well perhaps that's because I can't tell the difference between a railway and a railroad! Sorry about that!

www.pacificrailroadsociety.org


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 27, 2007)

I think that link was supposed to be

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/

It shows what I think is Coach-Dorm 39919, ex-Amtrak. That particular one has a photo at:

http://www.vistadome.com/trains/amtrak/sup...hdorm_39919.jpg

with the description: "Amtrak 39919 Superliner Coach Dorm in Albuquerque on the Southwest Chief in 1986. 3 narrow stripes."

-------------------------------------------------------------

Trainweb shows it at:

http://www.trainweb.org/vangab/hilev.htm

as:

COACH

------

ATSF#	Amtrak#	Amtrak#(HEP)	Year built	Notes/Status

545 9919 39919 1956 SOLD. Pacific Railroad Society.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Trainorders had a report from F40PHR231 in July 2002 that showed it to be an "Ex-Santa Fe hi-level" sitting at Beech Grove at that time, so presumably it was refurbed and then shipped off to Pac Rail Soc.


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## jim55 (Jul 28, 2007)

If what .....610 above says is true. then anyone who buys a first class ticket, is not really 1st class.......I had to edit everything I said here because I was just told Amtrak dropped the term "1st class". I have to check it out.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2007)

Ok, it is me again. The lady who wrote the original letter that got this whole thread going. Thanks for those of you who investigated and reported that I was correct about the private car thing. The entire letter is, in fact, correct. I did write this letter to amtrak upon arriving home. On Tuesday, it will be three weeks since I sent off the original letter. I also filled out the amtrak survey and posted my letter on another site...where it was seen and pasted here.

Many people have asked me if I received any response from amtrak. I did not. I did receive an e-mail inviting me to take some upgraded version of the Southwest Chief. It is called Grand Luxe Rail. Maybe it is the way to get truly first class service on Amtrak. I don't think I will be the one to find out.

Anyway, you all seem like very nice people. I was once an Amtrak enthusiast too. There is nothing as romantic as train travel. As of today, however, I wanted you to know Amtrak has completely ignored my complaint which reached them by e-mail, phone, and letter. I did cancel my Nov. Amtrak trip, and I honestly don't know what transportation I will use in the future. I am just very disappointed.

Take Care.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 3, 2007)

I don't think you should drop this. Keep writing. Write to everyone you can think of. Try your Congressman's office. What happened to you was horrendous.

Did you send the letter with a Return Receipt?


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## Lucifer (Aug 4, 2007)

Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight said:


> I just read all of the letters posted on that "my3cents.com" site in regard to Amtrak. And as usual with complaint letters, they tend to be rather "over exaggerated" in the details. However, I am not surprised at most of the points the lady makes in the letter pertaining to this thread. I will say this again as I have since my first days on this board as an Amtrak employee before I left to the freight sector.
> Until Amtrak management is HELD FULLY ACCOUNTABLE for their actions, there will never be any improvements of major influence. Employee morale is pretty much unacceptable as has been in my tenure (at least in my crewbase but I have seen it elsewhere). There are many good employees out there on the trains and in the stations, but they too feel the pressure and negativity that trickles down from management. My file didn't have any complaint letters from passengers in it. I had an overall good employment experience at Amtrak. However, I could see the writing on the wall. It is not going to change anytime soon., Sure they are making progress in some areas, but management needs to be the primary focus. And there is nobody that is going to make me change my opinion no matter how they try. Amtrak's woes fall on its management ranks! So I have made my way to the freight sector, and the difference is surreal to me! And the first thing that stood out at the new freight railroad? The management performs business more in line of like they are supposed to!
> 
> And BTW it is necessary for me to mention this........ I realize I am attacking Amtrak management as a former "agreement covered" employee. But I haven't lost the management mindset I gained while employed as a manager at my previous employer before Amtrak. I have come across a few (the key word is "few") good management types at Amtrak! I want to be sure it is noted that there are good managers as well as good employees there. But change needs to start and continue improving from the top on down! But I can't stress enough, "let's start at the top of the ladder!!!!" I believe it when I see it!
> ...


I'm with you 100% except for the "over exaggerated" assessment as I never believed anything but the best about traveling by rail until my own surreal and cartoonesque travel nightmare. AMTRAK is being murdered slowly but surely by a lack of funding, under staffing, stubborn adherence to outdated policies and procedures, dwindling services, and the company's tolerance of staff members' personal agendas, prejudicial judgement calls, and inconsistent adherence to policies and procedures. There is a definite lack of a reasonable system of checks and balances when it comes to relating to passenger. My opinion is that AMTRAK's entire system of operating needs to be trashed and reworked from scratch if the company is to survive.


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## Buildy (Aug 6, 2007)

All I can say is after my experience with a disconnect on Thurs night and my experience with the Chicago Union Station employees the subsequent day, I feel some serious changes should be made. The "south lounge" is a hole in the wall,with the ceiling tiles out, high watt light bulbs with no covers give the room a surreal sickly atmosphere. The employees were surly and downright rude and un-helpful bordering on totally useless. Over 100 of us came inches from missing the Capital Limited for the second night in a row due to the bumbling station workers who told everyone to go to gate C to board, only to change it to gate F without saying anything to anyone. Some old lady passenger stumbled onto the change and came over to tell the passengers who were at Gate C as they were told to do. It was a mad scramble to get people straight on what was going on in time. Included in this fiasco where many elderly and disabled passengers... When I told the employee who was boarding the passengers that it would be nice if when they change gates at the last second that they let people know about it,he got all ignorant. If I was his boss,I`d have had his job.

They treat you decent if you pony up the bucks to go First Class,and I will call it first class. They treat you like cattle or worse if you have a trip where you decide to take coach. I have tried both and the difference is shocking to me.

We came off the Cal Zephyr as Sleeper passengers,or First class or whatever you want to call it.

Also,the wife and I were given $24.00 total to eat three meals in Chicago-$3.00 per meal. They charge coach passengers $2.50 for a 30 cent bottle of water and then expect you to eat on three bucks a meal in downtown Chicago.... Our train didn`t leave until 7:05 PM the next day. We came off Sleeper and were going coach on the Capital. They wouldn`t let us use the Metro Lounge,so we had to pay 9 bucks to cram our luggage in a locker or sit in the cargo hold like South lounge for about 6 hrs and watch our bags. That "South Lounge" is the one the original lady with her horror story was holed up in overnight if I am correct.

I love riding on the train but hate what happens in between the way they are doing things in Chi-town....


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## had8ley (Aug 6, 2007)

lepearso said:


> Here is the link to her story.
> She describes a peculiar situation at the Holland, MI train station. Then, she notes that first class sleeping and dining car services have really gone down. Finally, she describes a nightmarish experience at Chicago Union Station.
> 
> I pray that what she went through is the exception and not the rule. In any event, I think that situations like these need urgent attention and proper remedy.


Well we made six pages out of this one. There's no doubt in my mind that there is a lot of bullying going on on the customer service end. I think the last five pages bear that out.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2007)

had8ley said:


> lepearso said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the link to her story.
> ...



Well, I guess all of the complaints have started to flow in. After I sent my complaint letter to Amtrak two days ago, they told me that it may take up to four weeks to get a response due to an unusually high number of complaints.


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## Train Seeker (Aug 6, 2007)

ok..here is the original complaint lady again....I am trainseeker now. It is good to know that at least people are complaining and I agree that amtrak needs some reworking. I've read all the posts, and I'm just glad I got my story out there. Maybe now, others will come forward and change will happen. It shows that around 3000 people viewed my letter on this site alone. Good. Maybe Amtrak is flooded with complaints right now. I know the one lady who did get a bus home for herself and her scouts that night made a lot of noise and slammed down a few papers that had amtrak's customer service info. on it. I didn't know the number was a 24 hour a day number, or I would have called it that night too. The sheets she slammed down were immediately snatched up by people. I hope they all complained too.

I have seen even a little pondering as to my demeanor on this thread too. Please let me tell you that I am the youngest of eleven kids. I put myself through college by working the drive-up window at a very popular fast food chain. I did that job full time for six years. I know what it is to work with the public...even when I was ill, dog tired, working an extra shift, or hadn't left my register/window for hours on end...and this was back in the day when the worker took the order, handled the money, and coordinated the order out the window. There was only one window on the side of the fast food places back in those days. Lengthy story I know, but I take extra care to be good to people who must work with the public. I've been there.

Now I work for the government - just like Amtrak employees. In the last 5 years, my staff took a pay cut, we lost our longevity bonus on the very first year I would have gotten it, and trimesters mean we will teach 30 percent more kids each year in our classrooms than we have ever taught before. So, I do know what the "crunch" feels like, but I would never take it out on my students or their parents. I am the highest tenured teacher in my subject matter in the entire district. I could really slide and do nothing for the rest of my career if I wished, but it would not be right. It is not right when Amtrak people do not do their jobs either...just because they can get away with not doing their jobs. Students and parents are my customers, and maybe it is my fast food training, but the customer is King. I was never rude or snippy or even short with any amtrak employee. I am a "please" and "thank you" kind of person.

I did e-mail amtrak a reply when they sent me an invitation to ride the deluxe version of the Chief. When I received a prefunctory e-mail that told me they would get back to me by e-mail in 48 hours, I did write them a pretty rude reply. I told them that the little rider on amtrak wanted a good train company, and that we were ready to make some noise in order to make train travel pleasurable again. Funny, I didn't get a reply to that e-mail either....hmmmm.

So, to the 3000 people who may read this...please demand better from Amtrak. If the current employees don't wish to be nicer, I know a lot of people who live around me who would love to have a job. If enough people make some noise, someone will have to listen. We have these awesome trains and the incredible scenery of America. I don't want to be punished just because I would like to choose to ride across our country instead of flying over it.

ok. ok. I think I'm done now. Obviously, I like to write...sorry about that.

Thanks for reading.

Train Seeker

12,000 Amtrak miles....


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## AlanB (Aug 6, 2007)

Train Seeker said:


> It shows that around 3000 people viewed my letter on this site alone. Good. Maybe Amtrak is flooded with complaints right now.


Train Seeker,

Not to burst your bubble, but the board adds one to the count each time anyone visits. So for example, someone like me whose usually on for a good portion of the day, has probably visited the topic at least 2 to 3 dozen times and advanced the counter by at least that much. As one of the moderators, I have to look at all the new posts just to make sure that they are ok, no foul language for example or spam.

And the other moderators have most likely read the thread a couple of dozen times too, as well as many of our regular members.

Now that's not to say that it still isn't an impressive number of people, but if I had to guess I'd say that it's probably more likely that maybe a few hundred people have actually seen your letter.

And welcome here!


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## frj1983 (Aug 7, 2007)

OK,

Allow me to share with you an experience of good customer service at CUS:

About a month ago, an electrical generator at work failed about mid-morning and we were all sent home at noon. I stopped and had a lunch, and then made my way to Union Station (my usual part-hike, part CTA) and arrived at CUS at 1:30pm. Checking the Metra board I noted I would have to wait to board my Aurora bound train until 2:15pm. So I decided to plunk myself down in front of gate S14.

I noted a Superliner equipped Amtrak train on that track, and many of the train attendants were gathered together in a group on the platform, listening to who I thought might be the Conductor. They then split up and went to the doors in their assigned passenger cars. Sure enough the digital sign lit up and stated "California Zephyr" with of course the time of departure and the station stops listed.

I noted then, 3 Amtrak staffers line up with one just outside the door of the South Lounge, one about half-way to the gate, and one directly in front of the gate (she had a walkie-talkie and seemed to be in charge). Soon after a group of red cap carts arrived with passengers, and then some followed on foot with their luggage. I was pretty sure that these were the sleeping car passengers. Then the Boarding Announcement was made for the CZ, and people began to drift out of the South Lounge, where each attendant pointed them on their way, and got them to Gate S14 where the passengers began to board. The three Staffers, were never rude, answered questions patiently, and kept the line moving quickly. In fact, at the very end of the line was a young woman with a toddler and an infant who was struggling with her kids and her luggage. Very smoothly, one of the staffers grabbed the toddler, a red cap grabbed her luggage and they were able to get her to the gate and helped her board on time. All of this was done with no muss no fuss. I was impressed with the way it was all handled.

And then I read the horror stories here and wonder why things are so inconsistent at CUS?


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## Buildy (Aug 7, 2007)

> "And then I read the horror stories here and wonder why things are so inconsistent at CUS?"


I don`t know why,but they certainly are!

Depending on the roll of the dice,you can get anywhere from your example,all the way to the woman who was locked in the South Lounge,instead of opting for a fleabag hotel...

I had a mixed bag during my disconnect last week.

On one hand,we got only $24.00($12.00 each) for two adults to eat in Chicago for 20 hours. However,we were taken to a four star hotel in Northbrook,also 25 miles out. There were Audis,Mercedes Volvos,etc driving around the hotel. A free Courtesy Van whisked us to the Metra Station at Glencoe for our ride back to Chicago. We opted to take Metra vs the Amtrak supplied bus... The Hotel was beautiful,much nicer than I can typically afford when I am traveling.

Then,going from being sleeper passengers on a late Cal Zephyr to becoming coach passengers for a one night trip home on the Capital,I got to see the nasty side of how coach passengers are treated in the South Lounge. Make of this what you will....

My fear was that we might be taken to a scary, nasty place like Homewood,which would have been the final straw for my wife and I with Amtrak had they sent us there. There ought to be a way for Amtrak to find people rooms in the Chicago area without resorting to sending them into a place like Homewood. Maybe the supervisors who approve these places should have to try them out.

Imagine how someone would feel,if they were new on Amtrak,and they asked me what would happen if they missed their connection in Chicago. Based on my experience with mine, I would probably have said "Don`t worry,Amtrak will take you to a great Hotel." Then instead they are bussed to Homewood?

The wife and I could have very easily ended up in Homewood had Amtrak made the choice to send us there instead of a Renaissance by Mariott in Northbrook,as I am not familar enough with Chicago to know that Homewood is one of the bad parts of town.

Amtrak should take steps to fix this problem,in my opinion.

Let`s put it this way,I`m not expecting a 4 star Hotel,but not a 1 star "hotel" in a dangerous area either!

(Edited to highlight the quote - AmtrakWPK)


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2007)

Why doesn't the Amtrak Board of Directors hire a foreign passenger railway company like DB, GNER, or SNCF to run Amtrak for them?


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## had8ley (Aug 9, 2007)

Guest said:


> Why doesn't the Amtrak Board of Directors hire a foreign passenger railway company like DB, GNER, or SNCF to run Amtrak for them?


Probably because they would have to hire Homeland Security to check them out; DEA to do drug screenings and the National Guard to monitor the trains. The red tape is so thick at Amtrak that any idea is just another waste of time and energy. Just try getting ANYONE at Amtrak to tell you what their positive goals are for the coming years (besides getting a pay check). I promise you'll come back from Washington with an empty basket.


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## MrFSS (Aug 9, 2007)

had8ley said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Why doesn't the Amtrak Board of Directors hire a foreign passenger railway company like DB, GNER, or SNCF to run Amtrak for them?
> ...


And, on top of all of that, if they did hire someone with good skills and ideas on what needed to be done, that person would never get anything done because of the politics and the union.


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