# When to use AGR points



## margo (Sep 20, 2009)

I am trying to plan our first Amtrak trip. We've been wanting to do this for a long time and now that we are retired, this seems like the right time. We're thinking April or May,2010-- Chi to Sac, Sac to Sea, Sea to Chi. We would stay one night in each city. I think we would like to have a roomette. I have an Amtrak Mastercard with 7000 AGR points. I will probably have about 11000 points by December. But I don't want to wait too long to get our tickets. Should I go ahead and book our tickets and cancel those and get new ones if they are available when I get more points? If I don't have enough for a roomette, can I add cash ? On which leg of the trip do you suggest that I use the points? Thank you for any help.


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## diesteldorf (Sep 20, 2009)

Hi Margo,

Taking the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago would be a nice trip and the Empire Builder is one of Amtrak's best trains. However, 11,000 points really won't get you very far as you need 20,000 for a roommette and 30,000 for a bedroom. I would recommend checking several dates using Amtrak.com because you may need to pay for much of the trip. You could use your points for 1 zone of the trip and pay for the remainder.


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## the_traveler (Sep 20, 2009)

I would book now with cash, and when you have have enough points (20,000 points for a roomette on the Empire Builder and California Zephyr, 15,000 points on the Coast Starlight) you can book the roomette with points, *AND THEN* cancel the paid reservation. (Make sure you book a room with points before you cancel the other reservation! Better to have 2 rooms and then cancel 1, then have 1 room, cancel it and find out there are no rooms left!  )

You can not pay some points (like 10,000 points) and also pay cash. But you could pay cash to/from Wolf Point, MT on the Empire Builder and use a 1 zone AGR award, but a 1 zone award is still 15,000 points! Doing this, you would need to buy Chicago to Wolf Point or Wolf Point to Seattle. Seattle to Sacramento is a 1 zone (15,000 point) award. Sacramento to Chicago would be a 2 zone award, with Denver as the zone border.

If you do not stay overnight in Sacramento, you could do *BOTH* the Coast Starlight and California Zephyr for a 2 zone award! If that was the case, I would use the 15,000 points for that segment! 

Also remember - you *CAN* also buy up to 10,000 AGR points per *CALENDAR YEAR*!  (HINT: December 31, 2009 and January 1, 2010 are in 2 different calendar years!)


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## margo (Sep 21, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> I would book now with cash, and when you have have enough points (20,000 points for a roomette on the Empire Builder and California Zephyr, 15,000 points on the Coast Starlight) you can book the roomette with points, *AND THEN* cancel the paid reservation. (Make sure you book a room with points before you cancel the other reservation! Better to have 2 rooms and then cancel 1, then have 1 room, cancel it and find out there are no rooms left!  )
> You can not pay some points (like 10,000 points) and also pay cash. But you could pay cash to/from Wolf Point, MT on the Empire Builder and use a 1 zone AGR award, but a 1 zone award is still 15,000 points! Doing this, you would need to buy Chicago to Wolf Point or Wolf Point to Seattle. Seattle to Sacramento is a 1 zone (15,000 point) award. Sacramento to Chicago would be a 2 zone award, with Denver as the zone border.
> 
> If you do not stay overnight in Sacramento, you could do *BOTH* the Coast Starlight and California Zephyr for a 2 zone award! If that was the case, I would use the 15,000 points for that segment!
> ...


 Thanks so much diesteldorf and the_traveler for the info. I think I will go ahead and make our reservations now and see how my points add up later.

Could you help a little more? How much do the AGR points cost when you buy them? If I use my points on 1 zone of my trip and pay for the other zone, will we have to change rooms? Also, I didn't understand the part about Sacramento. Would the Starlight and the Zephyr be in separate zones? Thanks again.


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## Ispolkom (Sep 21, 2009)

margo said:


> Could you help a little more? How much do the AGR points cost when you buy them? If I use my points on 1 zone of my trip and pay for the other zone, will we have to change rooms? Also, I didn't understand the part about Sacramento. Would the Starlight and the Zephyr be in separate zones? Thanks again.


1) AGR points cost 2.75 cents per point to purchase.

2) If you use an AGR reward for one zone, and buy a ticket for the other, make the AGR reservation first, find out which room and sleeper you're in, then call Amtrak and make a reservation with a human. The clerk should be able to sell you the same room for the rest of the trip. You might have some problems with a higher room rate because the room is in a higher bucket.

3) AGR rewards are calculated by the zones the departure and arrival cities are in, not the number of trains you take. One train can be two zones (Chicago to Sacramento on the California Zephyr). Two trains can be one zone (Denver to Seattle on the California Zephyr and the Coast Starlight), as long as you don't overnight in Sacramento. Study the map in the AGR Rewards Chart.

In this case a one-zone AGR reward from Denver to Seattle would probably give you the biggest bang for your AGR buck. The California Zephyr has very high rates for sleeper accommodations.


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## diesteldorf (Sep 21, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> margo said:
> 
> 
> > Could you help a little more? How much do the AGR points cost when you buy them? If I use my points on 1 zone of my trip and pay for the other zone, will we have to change rooms? Also, I didn't understand the part about Sacramento. Would the Starlight and the Zephyr be in separate zones? Thanks again.
> ...


This is good info, but I disagree with #2 slightly. Always make the cash reservation first and the AGR reservation 2nd since making the AGR reservation 1st could cause the room prices to go up and increase your cash out of pocket.

AGR reps can also put you in speific rooms if you let them know the circumstances.


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## Ispolkom (Sep 21, 2009)

diesteldorf said:


> This is good info, but I disagree with #2 slightly. Always make the cash reservation first and the AGR reservation 2nd since making the AGR reservation 1st could cause the room prices to go up and increase your cash out of pocket.
> AGR reps can also put you in speific rooms if you let them know the circumstances.


You're absolutely right.


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2009)

As Ispolkom said, only look at the starting point of that segment and the ending point of that segment. In this case, Seattle is in the western zone and Denver is in the western zone. So it is a 1 zone award. It doesn't matter that you need to take 2 trains to get there.

Another example would be if you wanted to go from Seattle to Flagstaff, AZ. Both are in the same (western) zone, so it would be a 1 zone award. But to do this trip, you would have to take 3 trains and 2 bus connections! But it would still be the same amount of points as Seattle to Sacramento or Seattle to Denver!


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## margo (Sep 21, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> As Ispolkom said, only look at the starting point of that segment and the ending point of that segment. In this case, Seattle is in the western zone and Denver is in the western zone. So it is a 1 zone award. It doesn't matter that you need to take 2 trains to get there.
> Another example would be if you wanted to go from Seattle to Flagstaff, AZ. Both are in the same (western) zone, so it would be a 1 zone award. But to do this trip, you would have to take 3 trains and 2 bus connections! But it would still be the same amount of points as Seattle to Sacramento or Seattle to Denver!


Thanks again everyone for the help. I understand the AGR much better now.


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## PaulM (Sep 26, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> I would book now with cash, and when you have have enough points (20,000 points for a roomette on the Empire Builder and California Zephyr, 15,000 points on the Coast Starlight) you can book the roomette with points, *AND THEN* cancel the paid reservation. (Make sure you book a room with points before you cancel the other reservation!


What about the case where there are NO roomettes left when you want to switch from paid to award? Is this a catch 22 situation? You can't book the reward until you cancel; and if you cancel, someone else might slip in before you can even get an AGR agent to answer the phone?


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## the_traveler (Sep 26, 2009)

Yes, that is a possibility, but I would take that chance. That may happen as much as if someone else grabs the last room that you just canceled, but the possibility is very low in either case, but I would not want to chance it. Besides (and I'm not saying it can be done) maybe the AGR agent has a way to cancel your paid reservation and assign you that room, if it's the last room!


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## AlanB (Sep 27, 2009)

AGR agents cannot touch paid reservations, because there is money involved.

Best you can hope for is to get the cancellation screen up on line with your reservation showing, then call AGR while hovering over the cancel button, clicking only once you actually have an agent online and ready to go.

Then hope for the best.


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## PaulM (Sep 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> AGR agents cannot touch paid reservations, because there is money involved.
> Best you can hope for is to get the cancellation screen up on line with your reservation showing, then call AGR while hovering over the cancel button, clicking only once you actually have an agent online and ready to go.
> 
> Then hope for the best.


I thought as much. However, in this case you could win but actually lose. It was presumed the original poster would only have enough points for a one zone award and would split between paid and AGR at WPT. AGR agents can be agonizingly slow even when there is no problem. By the time they actually push the button for the CHI-WPT award, someone could have grabbed the canceled room, e.g., SPK - SEA.

The only solution seems to be to hover over the cancel button while simultaneously getting on one phone with one ear to Amtrak to reserve the paid portion and on another phone to AGR with the other ear to reserve the award portion. Or hire a personal AGR assistant.


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## PaulM (Sep 27, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> diesteldorf said:
> 
> 
> > This is good info, but I disagree with #2 slightly. Always make the cash reservation first and the AGR reservation 2nd since making the AGR reservation 1st could cause the room prices to go up and increase your cash out of pocket.
> ...


Just to clarify in the case when multiple rooms are available, the AGR agent can and will put you in the same room for which you have a paid reservation for the remainder of the trip. This would make sense from Amtrak's perspective since doing anything else would block two rooms, rather than one CHI-SEA, plus a lot of points in between. But then as the above discussion demonstrates, common sense does not always apply.


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## PaulM (Sep 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Best you can hope for is to get the cancellation screen up on line with your reservation showing, then call AGR while hovering over the cancel button, clicking only once you actually have an agent online and ready to go.


The talk of canceling brings up another thought. Presuming the ticket was paid for with the Chase AGR card, canceling it could eventually drop your points below that needed for the award. I know Amtrak is a lot slower posting refunds to the card than charges, and points from the credit card seem to get posted to your AGR account once a month. So the AGR agent wouldn't know the resulting point total. But are there any other checks in the system? What if you already printed your tickets?


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## PaulM (Sep 27, 2009)

This thread is of more than academic interest to me since I have a paid reservation for late January JAX to GBB - roomette JAX to WAS and WAS to CHI and coach to GBB. It is certain that I will have enough points by then for a one zone award (JAX to TOL). I wouldn't want to be rousted in TOL out at 5AM.

I may have enough for a two zoner by then. But I'm not sure I want to use up the extra 5000 points. At current fares TOL to GBB amounts to only 3.3 cents per point. Of course, that could change.


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## AlanB (Sep 27, 2009)

PaulM said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Best you can hope for is to get the cancellation screen up on line with your reservation showing, then call AGR while hovering over the cancel button, clicking only once you actually have an agent online and ready to go.
> ...


AFAIK AGR will not cancel the reservation, even if the tickets aren't picked up. Your balance will just go negative, with the assumption that you'll earn some points in the coming month to bring it back to a positive level.


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