# How to decide when to use AGR points



## pennyk (Sep 16, 2009)

I am planning to travel across the country leaving late August in 2010. I have around 22,000 AGR points right now and I am hoping to start making reservations as soon as I can (at the end of September). I am trying to determine which portion of my trip to pay for and which portion to use my points.

I have tried to calculate the fare as if I traveled the month prior to when I plan to travel. Of course, I want to get the most "bang" for my points.

I plan to travel:

from ORL to DEN (2 zones) approximate cost with bedroom 1749

from DEN to SEA (1 zone) approximate cost with bedroom 1241

from SEA to West Glacier (1 zone) approximate cost with bedroom 281

from West Glacier to ORL (3 zones) I can't get enough points for 3 zones, so it does not matter.

I think the decision between DEN/SEA and SEA/WGL is a no brainer because both would cost me 20,000 points, and I would get much more value using the same number of points from DEN-SEA.

I am thinking that DEN-SEA is also a better deal at 20,000 points than ORL-DEN at 30,000 points, especially since I would have to purchase almost 8,000 points.

I like to pride myself at being pretty good at math, but these are new equations for me and I am a bit confused.

Does anyone see anything that I have missed, or have any other suggestions?

Thanks.


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## randomJoe (Sep 16, 2009)

pennyk said:


> I like to pride myself at being pretty good at math, but these are new equations for me and I am a bit confused. Does anyone see anything that I have missed, or have any other suggestions?


I think you're thinking about it the wrong way. For each segment, just divide the cost of that segment by the number of points. You can then compare the resulting dollars per point.

As a general rule - I try and get at least $0.035 per point, but anything over $0.03 is good.

Now, you do have to think about the oppurtunity costs of leaving points in your account (that you might not use for several years...) But that's a second order effect.

Random Joe

PS Sorry about the quote above - I wasn't used to this UI


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## Upstate (Sep 16, 2009)

AGR sells them for 2.75 cents/point so if it doesn't break that level its a definite no go for me.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 16, 2009)

:lol: :lol:



pennyk said:


> I am planning to travel across the country leaving late August in 2010. I have around 22,000 AGR points right now and I am hoping to start making reservations as soon as I can (at the end of September). I am trying to determine which portion of my trip to pay for and which portion to use my points.
> I have tried to calculate the fare as if I traveled the month prior to when I plan to travel. Of course, I want to get the most "bang" for my points.
> 
> I plan to travel:
> ...


WellPenny, you didnt mention how long you planned to travel but I did some figuring ("liars never figure and figures can lie"):

Have you considered a rail pass for your rail fare: They come inthe following forms:

( 15 day/ 8 segment $389 ) (30 day/12 segment $579 ) (45 day/18 segments $745) 8you do get AGR points $1 to 1 point*

This would save you quiet a bit , a roundtrip for your rail fare is roughly $1500 minus any discounts you might qualify for!

Also if you arent fixed on staying in Denver there is the great Western Loophole that runs Omaha-SAC-PDX-CBS which is one zone and would get you to WGL park as the ticket is collected in PDX! (This also leaves out SEA)

If you are not married to a bedroom ,and are traveling by yourself, roomettes are quiet a bit cheaper on the Western trains, and from what Ive seen maybe in the east also! As you know, meals are included and the AGR points are less too!

Under your scheme I would use the AGR points for the CHI-DEN-SAC-SEA leg as a 2 zone award is worth the 3 nights as opposed to 2 from Florida to CHI!(and you get to ride the CZ and the CS,both great trains!)On your return you might want to use the Cardinal instead of the CL, or go to NOL on the CONO and then take the Crescent to WAS, then down the coast to Florida!Not that expensive for sleepers on that route in roomettes,plus you get a layover in NOL!)

Remember too, all paid travel will get more AGR points and by next summer there should be another promotion on!Book early as you know!Its a very busy time of year in the West, we booked 11 months early for the CS and EB to get bedrooms this July!

Im sure other members have ideas and suggestions, when you have time its fun to sit down and do the math and try different routings etc. Lots of folks figure by cost, I use that too but I look @ number of nights, where the train goes, where I havent been before and do trade offs, new places vs. cost/convience and future trips I might take! I admit I dont work anymore so I have the time, its sort of my hobby!


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## transit54 (Sep 16, 2009)

DEN to SEA is the way to go - you're getting more value for each point.

DEN to SEA: 1241 / 20000 = $0.06205/point

ORL to DEN 1749 / 30000 = $0.0583/point


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## pennyk (Sep 16, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> pennyk said:
> ...


Thanks for all of the information.

My proposed trip is 14 days, but 8 segments. I have not computed the rail fare to determine if a pass would be better, but the rail fare is the least expensive portion. I am a AAA member and a NARP member, but I am not over 62. I am pretty much set on stopping in Denver and Seattle. I have never been to either place and I have a friend in the Seattle area that I might visit. I have been to Portland.

Would I be able to use AGR points from CHI-DEN-SEA (2 zones), if I got off the train in Denver and spent the night in a hotel, or must the travel on the train through the zones be continuous?

The fare from CHI-DEN-SEA is approximately 2,088, however, I would have to spend about $200 purchasing points in order to get to 30,000.

I realize that roomettes are much more economical, but I do not like sharing toilet facilities, so I get bedrooms when traveling to the west. This trip is part of my "bucket" list and I am telling myself that I should spare no expense, but deep down, I am frugal, so I am a bit conflicted.

I have lived in Florida all my life and traveled by car one spring break to the grand canyon, Las Vegas and LA. I figure the only way to see the northwest is by train because I will not drive that far and will not take a bus. (I may do Canada after I turn 60 to get their senior's discount). My mother died when she was in her 60's, so it is possible I might not have unlimited time.

Thanks again.


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## the_traveler (Sep 16, 2009)

As a general rule, I try for at least 3.5¢/point when deciding to use or buy. (Divide "cost" if you were paying by the number of points for that portion.) Thus a $30 ticket is not worth spending 5,500 points, but a $1,500 ticket would be worth spending 15,000 points for!

As Jim mentioned, consider taking a roomette instead of a bedroom - especially if it's for 1 person only. For a 2 zone award, a roomette costs 20,000 points and a bedroom costs 30,000 points. I can think of better uses for the extra 10,000 points! (Like 2/3 of another 1 zone roomette award!  )

You may also consider buying a short segment to a zone border. Example: From Birmingham, AL (BHM) is a 2 zone award to Kingston, RI (KIN), but from Atlanta, GA (ATL) to KIN is only a 1 zone award. I would much rather pay $31 (less discounts) for a coach ticket BHM-ATL (plus earn another 100 AGR points) than use the extra 5,000 points needed for a 2 zone roomette award for BHM-KIN! 

You _may_ also want to consider getting a 1 zone coach award from Seattle to West Glacier. Yes, it is overnight, but it's also 5,500 AGR points vs 15,000 AGR points for a roomette!


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## Guest_rms492_* (Sep 16, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> As a general rule, I try for at least 3.5¢/point when deciding to use or buy. (Divide "cost" if you were paying by the number of points for that portion.) Thus a $30 ticket is not worth spending 5,500 points, but a $1,500 ticket would be worth spending 15,000 points for!
> As Jim mentioned, consider taking a roomette instead of a bedroom - especially if it's for 1 person only. For a 2 zone award, a roomette costs 20,000 points and a bedroom costs 30,000 points. I can think of better uses for the extra 10,000 points! (Like 2/3 of another 1 zone roomette award!  )
> 
> You may also consider buying a short segment to a zone border. Example: From Birmingham, AL (BHM) is a 2 zone award to Kingston, RI (KIN), but from Atlanta, GA (ATL) to KIN is only a 1 zone award. I would much rather pay $31 (less discounts) for a coach ticket BHM-ATL (plus earn another 100 AGR points) than use the extra 5,000 points needed for a 2 zone roomette award for BHM-KIN!
> ...



Hello, I have a question about buying a coach ticket then a sleeper ticket---how does one do that? Let's suppose I buy a coach ticket from Chicago to Toledo, OH. Then I buy a sleeper ticket Toledo, OH to say New York. What happens at Toledo? Do I have to get off the train to the platform, and "re-board" it as if I were a new passenger? Or, do I just walk through the train carrying luggage and all? Is this easy to do, or is this more a hassle than its worth.


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## the_traveler (Sep 16, 2009)

It not guaranteed, but at the discretion of the conductor, you _may_ be allowed to ride in the roomette even with a coach ticket.

2 examples of mine:

I had a (connecting) roomette from Sacremento to Chicago (coming from Portland). I rode the CS from Portland to Martinez, CA. So I bought a coach ticket from Martinez to Sacremento. With the conductor's OK, I was allowed to occupy the roomette in Martinez.

On another occasion, I had a roomette from Ontario, CA to Chicago. I purchased a coach ticket from LAX to Ontario. The conductor allowed me to occupy the roomette from LAX, 54 minutes early!

But I've heard of other times where the passenger had to ride coach and had to switch at that station!

So you never know!


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## Guest_rms492_* (Sep 16, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> It not guaranteed, but at the discretion of the conductor, you _may_ be allowed to ride in the roomette even with a coach ticket.
> 2 examples of mine:
> 
> I had a (connecting) roomette from Sacremento to Chicago (coming from Portland). I rode the CS from Portland to Martinez, CA. So I bought a coach ticket from Martinez to Sacremento. With the conductor's OK, I was allowed to occupy the roomette in Martinez.
> ...



I see, however, please explain why the coach ticket LA-ONT, I have seen that a lot on this board. What is the point of not getting roomette from LA all the way?


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## RRrich (Sep 16, 2009)

pennyk said:


> I am planning to travel across the country leaving late August in 2010. I have around 22,000 AGR points right now and I am hoping to start making reservations as soon as I can (at the end of September). I am trying to determine which portion of my trip to pay for and which portion to use my points.
> I have tried to calculate the fare as if I traveled the month prior to when I plan to travel. Of course, I want to get the most "bang" for my points.
> 
> I plan to travel:
> ...


If you have just over 20.000 points, and you like to travel in bedrooms (20K for one zone), then the most expensie one zone on your list is DEN/SEA for $1241 OR 20,000 points which works out to $1241/20000points or $0.621/point - 6+cents/point is a winner.

Since you will have to BUY some tickets, the sooner you do it, the cheaper the tix will be.

ENJOY


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## AlanB (Sep 16, 2009)

Regarding switching, you can walk through the train, but you may well find it easier to just walk down the platform. Just make sure that you have enough time to walk down the platform.


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## the_traveler (Sep 16, 2009)

Guest_rms492_* said:


> I see, however, please explain why the coach ticket LA-ONT, I have seen that a lot on this board. What is the point of not getting roomette from LA all the way?


In my case, the reason for the LAX-ONA (Ontario, CA is ONA) was that I was getting an AGR award from the west coast to Birmingham, AL (BHM). However, if I requested LAX-BHM, it would route me via the SWC (via ABQ). I wanted to go on the Texas Eagle (via San Antonio). Since ONA is only served by the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, it routed me thru San Antonio to Chicago. So I bought a $9 coach ticket from LAX to ONA - and began my AGR award in ONA!


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2009)

Guest_rms492_* said:


> Hello, I have a question about buying a coach ticket then a sleeper ticket---how does one do that? Let's suppose I buy a coach ticket from Chicago to Toledo, OH. Then I buy a sleeper ticket Toledo, OH to say New York. What happens at Toledo? Do I have to get off the train to the platform, and "re-board" it as if I were a new passenger? Or, do I just walk through the train carrying luggage and all? Is this easy to do, or is this more a hassle than its worth.


I dont understand why you would want to do this? its cheaper to buy a sleeper ticket from CHI-NYP than to do it in two segments! Plusyou can use the Metro Lounge in CHI, attend the reception on board before you leave the station, and use the Acela lounge in WAS when you arrive?

As the traveler has said before, its up to the conductor and SCA where you ride, it could be ride in the sleeper from CHI-TOL/change to the sleeper on the train upon arrival or get off and reboard in TOL! As to the LAX-ONA coach ticket, thats part of whats called a loophole, you save 5,000 AGR point s this way by paying $9 for a coach ticket! Theres other loopholes out there, read the AGR section of this forum! Hope this helps?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2009)

pennyk said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > :lol: :lol:
> ...


Thanks for the info Penny! Did some more figuring, since you say your planned trip is 14 days/8 segments I came up with the following:

A rail pass would benefit you, 15 day/8 segment is $389!!Even with AAA/NARP discount you couldnt come close to this!

On an Award from CHI-DEN-SAC-SEA you would have to travel continously, no stopovers! So Id suggest you use a one zone award DEN-SAC-SEA for 20,000 points as others have said! Looking @ your trip I make it 7 segments (Florida-WAS/WAS-CHI/CHI-DEN/SEA-WGL/WGL-CHI/CHI-WAS/WAS-Florida!

(the AGR award doesnt count as you know)!This is a total of 9 nights on the train which leaves you 5 other nights for stays/stopovers since you have to have all travel completed by midnight of your 15th day of starting travel on a rail pass! Stops in DEN/SEA/WGL would have to be short, like 1 night each,2 @ the most, but there are daily trains on all these routes! the problem will be booking bedrooms on the CZ?CS?EB this time of year,whether paid or AGR!

You could always buy discounted rail fare tickets good for a year but have to decide if the extra cost (like twice as much!) is worth it, it comes down to desire/convience vs. cost, tough to decide! Since its a bucket list trip Id say go for it, $200 for 10.000 points isnt bad, and with your AGR MC and the sure to be summer promo on youll get more points! Keep us informed, trips like this excite most members, its a dream we all share! Jim


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## pennyk (Sep 17, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for all of the information.
> ...


Thanks Jim,

When I was calculating the number of days, I was counting the days for which I was using the award, and should not have been. After re-counting, you are correct, I will be traveling 7 segments and will be traveling 14 days, so I could get the least expensive rail pass. I am not familiar at all as to how the passes work when traveling in a sleeper. Does one get a ticket for just the sleeper portion and use the pass for the rail portion? Is it logistically more difficult to book bedrooms doing it that way. It is still a bit too early to book, but I intend to book right at 11 months (because I plan to travel on very popular routes that sell out quickly or get very expensive quickly). When I have some free time later, I will calculate the rail fare and compare it to the price of the rail pass.

I am trying to get my ducks in a row so I can make my reservations at the earliest possible time and I appreciate all the wonderful advice.

Penny


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2009)

No problem Penny, when you call (not on line) the Amtrak agent thru Julie you tell them youd like a 15 day/8 segment rail pass/its purchased seperately! Then you make the sleeper reservations, pay for them (that locks in the low bucket sleepers) and print them much later in case a better deal comes up!

Also forgot to mention, and you probably know this, on the Viewliner trains since you have your toliet in the roomette perhaps you dont need a deluxe bedroom which saves you $$$ on the paid segments in the East! Instead of the CL,

if you can get a sleeper on the Cardinal (I know its hard and cost more, but its a better trip everyone says) you can again be in a roomette instead of a Bedroom!

If you want to have 15 more days, and get 4 more segments on the rail pass, for the same $200 youd spend for 10,000 points youd have more flexibility on your layovers, could spend more time in Denver/SEA/WGL, perhaps even an overnite in CHI and WAS area since you have family there! Play with the computer, do the math, as you say book early and often! Remember the fall promotion, if you havent signed up, saddle up and take a trip before DEC. and you get double rail points! Keep us informed, like I said this is a great trip, I have several on my bucket list but am able to ride coach and in roomettes since IM a guy and dont have to clean so thouroughly! :lol:


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## pennyk (Sep 17, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> if you can get a sleeper on the Cardinal (I know its hard and cost more, but its a better trip everyone says) you can again be in a roomette instead of a Bedroom!


Thanks again Jim, I am planning to take the Cardinal based on all the wonderful things I have read on this forum. I have already taken the CL a few times and the LSL one time and I am ready for something new. I hope to make my reservations as soon as I am able to do so.

I computed my rail fare for my proposed trip and it totaled $553.50 with my AAA discount. The 15 day pass is $389, so it is more cost effective to get the pass, but will the difference in price be worth the extra trouble and possible screw ups? I am concerned about things going wrong. I am not exactly neurotic, but my relatives would say I am close.



Penny


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## the_traveler (Sep 17, 2009)

pennyk said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > if you can get a sleeper on the Cardinal (I know its hard and cost more, but its a better trip everyone says) you can again be in a roomette instead of a Bedroom!
> ...


If at all possible, you may want to consider taking the Cardinal *EASTBOUND* (from Chicago)! That way, you will have guaranteed daylight viewing of the best scenery in the New River Gorge! Eastbound is mid morning  , but westbound is later afternoon  , so if it's late, it may be dark by the time you reach the Gorge!

The Bedrooms will be on the best scenery side, but if you take a roomette, try for an odd number room.  (And the Cardinal uses Viewliners, with the toilet in the roomette.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2009)

pennyk said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > if you can get a sleeper on the Cardinal (I know its hard and cost more, but its a better trip everyone says) you can again be in a roomette instead of a Bedroom!
> ...


Your welcome, the pass is no problema! Just purchase it through Amtrak. its good for one year after you purchase it, once it is used its good for the number of days and segments shown on the pass, your reservations are made with your sleeper fares, the AGR award of course is seperate!

Once your tickets are printed ( no hurry, if youve paid in advance youre all set!) youll have the rail pass, and tickets for all your segments showing the sleepers and fares just like a normal ticket! Nothing really to go wrong unless we get a hurricane or it snows in July! :lol:

Congrats on the Cardinal, Ive yet to ride it but will in the fall, I too am over exposed to the CL and LSL,just remeber sleepers are hard to get so youll have to plan your trip around that since its a three times a week train!Perhaps catching it out of NYP instead of WAS can help get a sleepr easier?

I dont really think your anything except an adventurous soul with experience and a dream that youre gonna live! Go for it, it can cure the soul and make it whole as one of my heroes said!Also if you have to book hotels, some real deals now, I dont know how far in advance all the sights or plans allow, theres a million of them of course! Im envious!( and IIRC, youre a lawyer so youre just extra careful! LOL)


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## pennyk (Sep 17, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...


Thanks.

I had planned on taking the Cardinal westbound, but as a result of your suggestion, I just looked into the possibility of taking it eastbound from Chicago. Because the Cardinal gets into WAS so late, the only connection is by bus. I do not like buses at all, so I will just hope that the train is on time so I can see the scenery in daylight. My proposed Cardinal trip is on August 27th, so there should be sufficient daylight if the train is on time. Even though the train is a Viewliner with toilet facilities, I was considering splurging and getting a bedroom (if available), so I would be able to see out both sides of the train at all times. I assume that the best scenery going westbound would be on the even number side.


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## the_traveler (Sep 17, 2009)

pennyk said:


> Even though the train is a Viewliner with toilet facilities, I was considering splurging and getting a bedroom (if available), so I would be able to see out both sides of the train at all times. I assume that the best scenery going westbound would be on the even number side.


I've never taken it westbound, so I can't say for certain. But the (1) sleeper is on the rear of the train, and the H-Room is usually next to the diner-lite car. That would suggest the bedrooms will have the window on the "wrong" side and the even numbered roomettes will be on the "correct" side. (Even though the windows of the bedroom are on the "wrong" side, you can see out the other window - but that is across the hallway!)


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## AlanB (Sep 18, 2009)

Penny,

I see one potentially big problem with getting the pass. You must travel within 180 days of buying the pass. That means that you cannot buy the pass prior to six months out from the start of your trip. And without the pass, you cannot book the sleepers at 11 months out without paying for the railfare.

So going with the pass could mean that there is a slight chance that you could hit a sold out sleeper on one of the days you want one, especially with the Cardinal, and it almost certainly means that at least one or more rooms will not be at low bucket prices. Of course that possibility exists even if you can book right at the 11 month mark.

So you will have to think long and hard on the pass idea and then decide what you want to do.


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## pennyk (Sep 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Penny,
> I see one potentially big problem with getting the pass. You must travel within 180 days of buying the pass. That means that you cannot buy the pass prior to six months out from the start of your trip. And without the pass, you cannot book the sleepers at 11 months out without paying for the railfare.
> 
> So going with the pass could mean that there is a slight chance that you could hit a sold out sleeper on one of the days you want one, especially with the Cardinal, and it almost certainly means that at least one or more rooms will not be at low bucket prices. Of course that possibility exists even if you can book right at the 11 month mark.
> ...


Thanks. I did not have to think very long. The pass was only going to save me less than $200, so I will forgo the pass. Waiting 6 months might prevent me from getting sleepers on the popular trains, let alone the low bucket price. I hope to start making my reservations on the first day I am able to do so, September 26.


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