# Legacy Club at CUS



## hessjm (Jun 5, 2015)

I had a chance to poke around the Legacy Club today. Access will cost you $10 a day and will get you priority boarding to your train. I was told that there wasn't any access for any of the Select statuses. Right now they just have a few snacks but they will improve that selection soon. In the future they are going to add a bar to the Club.


----------



## El_Kabong (Jun 6, 2015)

Where in CUS is this located?


----------



## willem (Jun 6, 2015)

El_Kabong said:


> Where in CUS is this located?


The entrance is on the west wall of the Great Hall near the southwest corner.


----------



## railiner (Jun 7, 2015)

The first photo, especially, looks like it is the former Fred Harvey Gold Lion Restaurant.....


----------



## lepearso (Jun 7, 2015)

I love it already!


----------



## George K (Jun 7, 2015)

Very nice. But, a question: For those of us who are not in a layover at CUS, what's the advantage over the Metropolitan Lounge? Granted, it is a lot prettier, but...

I arrive about an hour before departure, have a cranberry juice and a bag of pretzels. Then, I'm good to go.

Oh, wait...you said a _bar_.


----------



## willem (Jun 7, 2015)

railiner said:


> The first photo, especially, looks like it is the former Fred Harvey Gold Lion Restaurant.....


According to the Hard Hat tour guide on Amtrak Train Day, the Fred Harvey restaurant is north of the Legacy, on the same side of the Great Hall. It would take a lot of work to make the Fred Harvey restaurant look nice.


----------



## J-1 3235 (Jun 7, 2015)

The Legacy Club is located in what was the Men's washroom. The smaller room with the turquoise ceiling was the Barber Shop.

Mike


----------



## railiner (Jun 7, 2015)

willem said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > The first photo, especially, looks like it is the former Fred Harvey Gold Lion Restaurant.....
> ...


Check this out...columns and chandelier's look familiar? ...http://chicagopc.info/Chicago%20postcards/restaurants/gold%20lion%20rest.JPG


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 7, 2015)

J-1 3235 said:


> The Legacy Club is located in what was the Men's washroom. The smaller room with the turquoise ceiling was the Barber Shop.


 It's amazing to see how nice washrooms were in the past compared to the hopelessly tacky and poorly maintained afterthought we expect today.



railiner said:


> willem said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...


They sure look similar to me.


----------



## willem (Jun 8, 2015)

The assertions that follow about locations are my recollections of statements by volunteers or Amtrak employees at Train Day.

In the OP's second picture, there is a stairway behind the distant display of posters. That stairway goes to the men's toilets.

The first photo I attached shows a storeroom north of the Fred Harvey restaurant. I imagine the column design was consistent through all rooms on the west side of the Great Hall. If I recall correctly, this room was a powder room for the women. There are large murals above the decorative strip near the top of the picture.

The second photo I attached shows the space of the Fred Harvey restaurant. I expect that the columns look different because the outside appearance is a façade and it has been removed from these columns. The alcove on the west wall of the Great Hall is behind the curved wall. There was a fire in this space when it was being used as a movie set, and it was never restored.


----------



## Deni (Jun 29, 2015)

The room that used to be the barber shop is said to be where they will be putting in the bar.

This is definitely where I'm planning to wait for my trains from now on, once the bar is in. I see the price going up if it proves to be popular, which I think it will.


----------



## OBS (Jun 30, 2015)

Actually, it appears that Amtrak is marketing this as a Priority Boarding lounge. The cost is $10 til Aug. 1 then goes up to $20. The press release says "quiet , comfortable lounge seating" "complimentary refreshments", "Comp. Wi-Fi and charging stations", "Train status monitors", and "Satellite TV"....


----------



## rrdude (Jun 30, 2015)

OBS said:


> Actually, it appears that Amtrak is marketing this as a Priority Boarding lounge. The cost is $10 til Aug. 1 then goes up to $20. The press release says "quiet , comfortable lounge seating" "complimentary refreshments", "Comp. Wi-Fi and charging stations", "Train status monitors", and "Satellite TV"....


So now I'm confused... Is this an Amtrak run operation, or 3rd party, leasing space from Amtrak?


With contract with Amtrak to market?
3rd party company "on their own" to try and make a profit, on un-used space. I assume, rented to them, from Amtrak? 
Any reimbursement from one entity to the other?
Thanks.


----------



## CHamilton (Jun 30, 2015)

The Legacy Club was being advertised frequently over the PA when I was in CUS yesterday. Listeners were advised to ask Amtrak personnel about it, so Amtrak must be in on the deal to some extent, at least.


----------



## rrdude (Jun 30, 2015)

CHamilton said:


> The Legacy Club was being advertised frequently over the PA when I was in CUS yesterday. Listeners were advised to ask Amtrak personnel about it, so Amtrak must be in on the deal to some extent, at least.


That's my take too Charlie, OTOH, it just doesn't seem to fit the current "though process" that I think is happening at Amtrak.

Maybe Amtrak is just being generous n their promotions, and _really wants_ the club to be a business success, for obvious rental-income (and to a lesser degree, pax comfort) reasons.....

So somebody else "do the math". At $20 per person, per visit, how many visitors per day, do you *think* they'd need to get using it, considering:


Fully allocated labor cost
Square footage rental
Insurance
Utilities cost (electric, water, portion of waste, internet, etc., etc.)
Cost of good inventory.... (Snacks, beverages) including shrinkage
Sale of "adult beverages" income...
Payment(s) to Chicago Alderman
Payments(s) for "protection"


----------



## OBS (Jun 30, 2015)

The information I saw doesn't really say "who", but it does say the lounge is open to Amtrak passengers, commuters, and others...FWIW


----------



## Rail Freak (Jun 30, 2015)

At $20, I think I'll pass.


----------



## andersone (Jun 30, 2015)

Two Starbucks? I will stick with GBB


----------



## Palmetto (Jun 30, 2015)

As a former resident of Chicago, I'd think the "payments to the alderman" would add up pretty quickly.  On topic, if I were a coach passenger, I'd consider it. As a sleeping car passenger, I'll go to the Met Lounge for free.


----------



## Manny T (Jun 30, 2015)

I visited the Legacy Club a few weeks ago and can confirm it is a superior, first class lounge.

Whether it is worth the fee depends entirely on each traveler's inclinations and time.

The facility is far superior to Amtrak's Metropolitan Lounge on every objective level--except for the fee. But there are two ways to look at that. Sleeping car PAX are also paying a fee for the Metropolitan Lounge--with their sky high ticket prices. Also, if I just paid $300-400-500 for my Sleeping car ticket, does another $10 for lounge privileges make a difference?

To understand what the Legacy Club is all about, it would help to read an article George K. posted about massive upscale renovations planned for CUS. Here is the link: http://www.dailynews724.com/local/amtrak-plans-union-station-makeover-h513373.html

Putting 2 + 2 together, I come up with this: Amtrak is the landlord of CUS. Third party operator of Legacy Club pays Amtrak rent; in return, Amtrak also provides staffing.

The point of the Legacy Club--it's an advertisement for the future CUS. It shows what the station can be once all the hidden spaces are opened up, renovated, and brought back to their former glory, as Amtrak solicits proposals from retailers, service and food operations.

In this interpretation, the Legacy Club isn't so much a passenger facility as it is a prototype--a showcase for prospective commercial tenants in the new CUS. Get on board, guys, build something like this for the captive audience at CUS, and prosper.


----------



## Deni (Jul 2, 2015)

Manny T said:


> Putting 2 + 2 together, I come up with this: Amtrak is the landlord of CUS. Third party operator of Legacy Club pays Amtrak rent; in return, Amtrak also provides staffing.
> 
> The point of the Legacy Club--it's an advertisement for the future CUS. It shows what the station can be once all the hidden spaces are opened up, renovated, and brought back to their former glory, as Amtrak solicits proposals from retailers, service and food operations.
> 
> In this interpretation, the Legacy Club isn't so much a passenger facility as it is a prototype--a showcase for prospective commercial tenants in the new CUS. Get on board, guys, build something like this for the captive audience at CUS, and prosper.


I think that is absolutely spot on, the first step in a (finally) revitalized Union Station, hopefully something that rivals Washington Union Station.

FYI - Here's a link for the original Tribune article (have to register to read). It is easier to read (not all run together) and has some pictures.


----------



## Shortline (Jul 3, 2015)

This is good news, looking forward to seeing it completed! Great to have options for a true executive style lounge. And even at 20/day is still a bargain for a real lounge. I avoid the Met lounge, overcrowded, no real amenities, and feels like the lobby of an old Ramada inn.... this holds a lot of promise especially with the METRO Deli no longer an option to kill time in.


----------



## TraneMan (Jul 3, 2015)

They should of swap lounge.. Use this new location for the sleeping passengers, and and use the metro lounge for the others to pay to use.


----------



## Manny T (Jul 3, 2015)

I agree about swapping lounges!!

And closing the Metro Deli was quite an interesting move. What was the Metro Deli essentially? A bar for commuters after work. Now it's closed.

What's Amtrak's next move in the Legacy Club? Installing a bar in the old barber shop space. I predict hordes of commuters will rush to join!!

Turns out, Amtrak may be more savvy at real estate than at operating passenger rail service.


----------



## Palmetto (Jul 3, 2015)

Amtrak could take a cue from the airlines in major cities especially in the Northeast. They offer a $50 day pass and it's good for more than one visit a day if you can fit more than one visit in. How about an annual membership fee? People are used to "buying up", especially frequent users of the service.


----------



## dlagrua (Jul 3, 2015)

If the Legacy club provides ALL of the amenities that the Metro lounge provides and more, it might be worth paying for it. Really what more do you get right now for $20 besides a brighter room, nicer seats, outlets and a better table? Do they at least offer you coffee, soft drinks and snacks for your $20? What I really think is happening is that this club is a preview on the shape of things to come-paid memberships, but it first has to pay off for the company that built it, doubtful unless they are getting free rent from Amtrak. I believe the location of the legacy club at CUS may be in the old location of the Harvey House restaurant that was there years ago.


----------



## TylerP42 (Jul 3, 2015)

dlagrua said:


> If the Legacy club provides ALL of the amenities that the Metro lounge provides and more, it might be worth paying for it. Really what more do you get right now for $20 besides a brighter room, nicer seats, outlets and a better table? Do they at least offer you coffee, soft drinks and snacks for your $20? What I really think is happening is that this club is a preview on the shape of things to come-paid memberships, but it first has to pay off for the company that built it, doubtful unless they are getting free rent from Amtrak. I believe the location of the legacy club at CUS may be in the old location of the Harvey House restaurant that was there years ago.


It's 10 dollars, there are outlets EVERYWHERE. Unlimited canned soft drinks, coffee, chips, snacks, and a restroom that is nice. It's also a nice ambiance and when it isn't very busy you get to pick the channel on the 6 TVs they have.


----------



## Manny T (Jul 3, 2015)

It's definitely headed in the direction of paid memberships. There are signs announcing it. The daily fee is only temporary.


----------



## pennyk (Jul 25, 2015)

When I was in Chicago earlier this week, Kevin K and I walked over (from the Metropolitan Lounge) to "check out" the Legacy Club. We got extremely lucky because the lounge manager was there and gave us a tour of the lounge. He also gave us a tour of the former "ladies lounge" and former Harvey House location, together with a bit of history thrown in. It was fascinating to get a glimpse "behind the scenes." We were told that the new Metropolitan Lounge will be 2 stories and should be open in the spring AND the funding for the renovation is in place.

(again my apologies to Shanghai who was watching my backpack while I was "touring." I did not expect to be gone long, but I could not turn down that opportunity)


----------



## boxcarsyix (Jul 25, 2015)

Does the Legacy Club day check baggage?


----------



## jis (Jul 25, 2015)

At present the thing going for the Legacy Club is that it is not the zoo that the Metropolitan Lounge is in the afternoon. Very often the Met lounge is SRO, which is not very nice for a lounge experience.

it is advertized that you get some sort of preferential boarding from the Legacy Club. I don't know what that means. But at least it might be more consistent than what you get at the Met Lounge.

As it turns out the preferential boarding from the Met Lounge is hit and miss if you happen to be a Coach passenger visiting using your Select+ status. It depends on whether the grumpy old man is in charge or the nicer younger lady is in charge. Grumpy old man will send you off to the regular gate area to stand at the back of the line, whereas younger lady will board you through the lounge gate! The usual Amtrak service inconsistency at work.


----------



## pennyk (Jul 25, 2015)

boxcarsyix said:


> Does the Legacy Club day check baggage?


I do not know. I did not ask the question. I know that Amtrakwolverine used the Legacy Club on Tuesday. Hopefully, we will answer the question. I believe he said he got priority boarding.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 25, 2015)

Thanks for the info Penny! And did they say where the new 2 Story Metro Lounge will be located in the Great Hall?

Is it where the Metro Deli used to be or somewhere else?


----------



## pennyk (Jul 25, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Thanks for the info Penny! And did they say where the new 2 Story Metro Lounge will be located in the Great Hall?
> 
> Is it where the Metro Deli used to be or somewhere else?


In a location near the Great Hall. I believe it was said that the former Metro Deli location was needed for the construction of the new Metro Lounge.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 25, 2015)

I have a_* Texas Eagle *_to_* Cap *_connection this Tuesday and am interested in checking out the new Lounge. Does the Conductor come in and do check in and meal times like they do in the Metropolitan and do you get the Kindergarten Walk to the train from there?


----------



## willem (Jul 25, 2015)

At Amtrak Train Day in Chicago last May, one of the guides for the Hard Hat Tour said it would be under the staircase opposite the Legacy Lounge. The entrance will be to the left of the staircase, and the Metropolitan Lounge will wrap under the staircase.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 25, 2015)

jis said:


> It depends on whether the grumpy old man is in charge or the nicer younger lady is in charge. Grumpy old man will send you off to the regular gate area to stand at the back of the line, whereas younger lady will board you through the lounge gate!


Sounds like the perfect job for a grumpy old man. Naturally I'm rather intrigued.


----------



## PVD (Jul 25, 2015)

Metro Lounge is primarily a place for Amtrak passengers to wait for afternoon and evening departures, Legacy serves a broader audience since it caters to the upscale commuter crowd that has to deal with the Union Station Zoo on a daily basis. Large numbers of passengers may be willing to pay to be insulated from the madness.


----------



## neroden (Jul 26, 2015)

pennyk said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info Penny! And did they say where the new 2 Story Metro Lounge will be located in the Great Hall?
> ...


I thought it was more complicated than that, but I still haven't seen any layout plans. In addition to relocating the Metro Lounge, the Amtrak ticket windows are also supposed to be relocated out of the concourse into the Great Hall, and so is the Amtrak Police office, and so is the Customer Relations office. I'm not sure which one exactly is requiring the closure of Metro Deli, but that is a lot of things to move.


----------



## Anderson (Jul 26, 2015)

I've got mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, Amtrak could certainly rake in quite a bit from the presence of a "paid" lounge (even if only in rental fees...bear in mind that at many airports, the airport gets a cut of the paid entrance fees as part of the lease agreement) and having something like this has room to make a number of station stays more pleasant for those paying for it. On the other hand, there's room for this to kill off the presently free nature of the CA, which is a decent part of the higher status tiers (_knowing_ that I can relax in the CA at WAS until someone I'm meeting gets off work even if I showed up on a Regional is a _big_ plus).

Probably the biggest motive here is the sheer load of sleeper pax in CHI. Per NARP data, Sleeper/First pax counts at major stations were:

NYP: 338,468

CHI: 222,542

WAS: 215,575

LAX: 77,078

BOS: 69,824

PHL: 69,460

SEA: 50,601

NOL: 40,025

EMY: 34,426

NWK: 30,966

PDX: 27,825

Now NYP wins on the sheer passenger count...but a huge share of those are Acela pax who may or may not be in the station for more than 15 minutes (even if they use the lounge, most will be on one of the next Acelas out). In CHI, a _ton_ of those are transferring passengers who will end up around there for 4-6 hours.


----------



## CHamilton (Jul 26, 2015)

Anderson said:


> Per NARP data, Sleeper/First pax counts at major stations were:
> 
> NYP: 338,468
> 
> ...


Slightly OT, but that list is interesting. SEA and EMY are the only two that don’t have a Met Lounge, and EMY probably has very few passengers that stay more than a few minutes due to most arriving by Ambus. So I sure hope that the rumors are true that SEA is getting a lounge soon.


----------



## Railroad Bill (Jul 26, 2015)

neroden said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...


I am sure this is progress? But we will miss the quiet Great Hall to just sit and relax looking at the architecture and enjoying the ambiance without the hustle bustle of the traffic that will now engulf the Hall. :unsure:


----------



## Ryan (Jul 26, 2015)

On the other hand, I've never liked the quiet, empty Great Hall. It's *supposed* to be filled with the hustle bustle of a busy train station, much like GCT.


----------



## jis (Jul 26, 2015)

Anderson said:


> Probably the biggest motive here is the sheer load of sleeper pax in CHI. Per NARP data, Sleeper/First pax counts at major stations were:
> 
> NYP: 338,468
> 
> ...


One thing that this suggests to me is that NYP needs a Club Acela that is probably three times the size of the current one.
Do the Chicago and LAX numbers include Business Class passengers? Similarly for SEA and PDX. Are these actual lounge usage counts or arrived at by counting O/D tickets sold for those locations?

What proportion of EMY boardings actually arrive by Ambus?


----------



## Manny T (Jul 26, 2015)

Anderson is totally correct about NYP and CHI lounges. The lounge in Penn is like "Grand Central Station" with loads of people going in and out all the time heading to Boston & WAS on Acela. In Chi people are literally parked for hours. As a Chicagoan, I check my bags in the Metro lounge and hang out in the city before my LD departures. When I return to the lounge to board, many of the same people have been sitting there for hours. I would say these folks deserve a somewhat nicer place to wait than today's Metro Lounge, and if a new lounge or the Legacy Club provides it, that is a good thing.

I understand RRBill's concern about losing the sleepy ambiance of the Great Hall and to some extent I share it. But overall I think the progress is good. And if you've spent any time in the Great Hall, you know I mean "sleepy" literally, not figuratively. There are always homeless people sleeping in the Great Hall (sadly). Not great for ambiance.


----------



## PVD (Jul 26, 2015)

I too love the ambience of the Great Hall. But lately it has been used to lineup passengers for departures to help with the traffic problems that the station has. Sort of kills some of its beauty. I think the staircase rebuild is what required some of the Metro Deli space. Too bad, I liked that place. If the weather was lousy (not shocking in Chicago) it was way better than the food court.


----------



## jis (Jul 26, 2015)

I was under the impression that the Met Lounge will go where the ladies room used to be. But I could be wrong.


----------



## pennyk (Jul 26, 2015)

jis said:


> I was under the impression that the Met Lounge will go where the ladies room used to be. But I could be wrong.


Kevin and I seem to recall that we were informed that the Ladies lounge location would become an event room and the new Met Lounge would be located on the other side of the Great Hall (close to the former Metro Deli location). But we could be wrong also.


----------



## PVD (Jul 26, 2015)

I've attached the most current CUS plans I've got for entertainment. What is eye opening, are the daily passenger numbers. Compared to the Amtrak sleeper/first class numbers, it is easy to see why the place is such a fiasco.

Union-Station-Master_Plan_Tech-Memo-1-FINAL-12-20-2013.pdf


----------



## Manny T (Jul 26, 2015)

PVD thanks, the Master Plan is a great read! If I can summarize my conclusions, and I am not an architect or engineer, the current Metro Lounge space will be added to Amtrak's existing coach waiting rooms for the purpose of enlarging the coach waiting rooms. The Metro Lounge then will be relocated to a larger space off the Great Hall, across the east-west passageway from where the old Metro Cafe was (Lounge will not be IN the Metro Cafe space but across from it). Also a caveat--the master plan is just a proposal, I think.


----------



## PVD (Jul 26, 2015)

At least they finally woke up and admitted there is a problem. Just like in NYP huge numbers of daily commuters go through space shared with a "regular" railroad station. Of course, the plans will change, some things added, some things deleted, funding and timelines will always be touchy, but the major tenants and stakeholders are putting their heads together with the landlord (Amtrak)


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 26, 2015)

Has anyone actually been _*IN*_ the Legacy and can give a report of how it measures up to the Metropolitan? I have a layover there Tuesday and even after doing my running around will have a couple-three hours to kill and wonder if it is worth the $10.


----------



## neroden (Jul 26, 2015)

PVD said:


> I've attached the most current CUS plans I've got for entertainment. What is eye opening, are the daily passenger numbers. Compared to the Amtrak sleeper/first class numbers, it is easy to see why the place is such a fiasco.


Thanks! Dunno if that's still current, but it shows Amtrak Metropolitan Lounge on the southeast corner of the Great Hall, taking up the entire corner and two floors (!!) -- the Metro Deli in the northeast corner of the Great Hall is replaced with the *ticket counters* for Amtrak.

I have to say my favorite part of the plan is the high-level platforms (converted from the mail platforms) -- which would undoubtedly be used by the Lake Shore Limited immediately -- but it might take a long time to build those.

In terms of staging, it looks like relocation of the Metro Lounge has to be done early, because that allows the Metro Lounge space to be converted to ordinary-waiting-room space. Relocation of the ticket counters will probably also be done early, to open up the walking space on the south side of the concourse. The plan doesn't show where the Amtrak customer relations & police offices (which need to move to open up the north side of the concourse) will go, but I'm guessing somewhere in the Great Hall in the spaces marked for 'retail'.


----------



## jis (Jul 26, 2015)

AFAIR there are already a few high level platforms in place in that mail platform corner. They are just not easily accessible from the headhouse at present.


----------



## neroden (Jul 26, 2015)

jis said:


> AFAIR there are already a few high level platforms in place in that mail platform corner. They are just not easily accessible from the headhouse at present.


Yes, there are two. They'd have to be renovated (the platform edges are crumbling etc., and you'd want to lock out the stairs which go up to the former mail sorting building above).

It's actually straightforward for the Red Cap carts to drive onto them, and I once saw an Amtrak employee drive onto one of them on a motorcycle. They don't like unescorted people walking to those tracks from the headhouse because it involves a grade crossing of the through tracks, which is potentially dangerous. Hence the plan to convert the 'steam tunnel' into a passenger walkway.


----------



## jis (Jul 26, 2015)

Yeah, they will need to build some good access path from the headhouse. I don;t know what their plans are. I also don;t know if instead they plan to create a new HL platform closer to the headhous perhaps between the through N-S track and the river. who knows?


----------



## Anderson (Jul 26, 2015)

jis said:


> I was under the impression that the Met Lounge will go where the ladies room used to be. But I could be wrong.


So what you're saying is that the Met Lounge is _really_ going in the toilet? *rimshot*


----------



## neroden (Jul 26, 2015)

jis said:


> I don;t know what their plans are.


The most recent plans I've seen are in that Master Plan document linked by PVD above.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 26, 2015)

I was there on the 21st of July. It's real nice. Can sodas and small bottles of water at no charge. It is coke products. Flat screen TVs with shows other then the news.they escort you out to the train ahead of everyone including pre-boards I think. I left my debt card behind by accident as they don't take cash only credit or debt cards but anyway they tracked me down on the train to give me back my card. METRA riders can use the club also.


----------



## Manny T (Jul 26, 2015)

I also noticed that Metro Lounge appears on 2 levels of the Master Plan in approx. the same location. I'm wondering if that means the Lounge will be on 2 floors connected by a staircase (nice!), there will be 2 separate Metro lounges--one on each floor; or whether a single Metro Lounge will be double height (also nice!), like the Legacy Club is now. Not that it matters that much; I'm willing to wait and see the final product (how long??) to find out.


----------



## Anderson (Jul 27, 2015)

That's probably going to be a single two-floor lounge, and it might even just be a function of a really high ceiling that it shows up on two levels.

(On a related note, I have to wonder how much something like this in NYP (or even NYG) could rake in with memberships. I suspect there are more than a few commuters who would toss down an immodest amount to ensure they had someplace to duck in the next time NJT gets royally screwed up.)


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 27, 2015)

Railroad Bill said:


> I am sure this is progress? But we will miss the quiet Great Hall to just sit and relax looking at the architecture and enjoying the ambiance without the hustle bustle of the traffic that will now engulf the Hall. :unsure:


You seem to be confusing a major urban transit center with a suburban library or museum. I'm ready for the Great Hall to serve a functional purpose again, and not just as a quiet place for tired old NIMBY's to reminisce.


----------



## Anderson (Jul 27, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure this is progress? But we will miss the quiet Great Hall to just sit and relax looking at the architecture and enjoying the ambiance without the hustle bustle of the traffic that will now engulf the Hall. :unsure:
> ...


I'm going to agree here. I generally find it somewhat painful that the ticketing area of Union Station in LA is basically dead space now. Yes, I realize that there would be issues retrofitting it to handle modern ticketing systems but that doesn't make it less painful in a way to see such a fine space not in use.

More to the point, the basement in Union Station (Chicago) is horridly overcrowded as things stand. Granted, no small part of this is down to planning based on ridership numbers from a few decades back (let's face it, there are plenty of decisions which were valid back in the 70s and 80s which look stupid now...but which would have shown up as being correct for several decades) and Amtrak has managed to exacerbate the issue with their handling of boarding practices (trying to check tickets for every passenger for a peak-hour Hiawatha is not the smartest way to efficiently move people, and the lines simply can't be handled well in the space available...but the area is frequently swamped with passengers regardless.


----------



## jis (Jul 27, 2015)

Last time I boarded a Hiawatha last week they did not check any tickets at the gate, as far as I could tell.


----------



## jis (Jul 27, 2015)

neroden said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > I don;t know what their plans are.
> ...


I see that the proposed access to them is via the converted steam tunnel. Sounds like a pretty reasonable plan.


----------



## neroden (Jul 27, 2015)

Anderson said:


> That's probably going to be a single two-floor lounge, and it might even just be a function of a really high ceiling that it shows up on two levels.


I'm hoping for two floors with an elevator.
I'm also hoping for multiple entrances. There should be an entrance from the Great Hall, obviously. But there should also be a ground-floor-level entrance; sleeper passengers coming from Chicago should be able to walk right in on the west side of Canal Street, separating them from the main pedestrian traffic flow. And the third entrance should be on the south side in the former taxi loop, for the Red Cap carts to drive passengers needing assistance to their train without going through the concourse.

But a high-ceiling room would be OK, I guess.


----------



## Manny T (Jul 27, 2015)

I've taken a dozen round trips on the Hiawatha and never had my ticket pre-checked before boarding in either direction even once. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. I always welcome the Quiet Car after the cramped conditions in Union Station.

As far as the Great Hall is concerned, as much as I love it's cavern-like emptiness, I think one shouldn't complain about lining up coach passengers for LD trrains there. If you take that position, and of course coach PAX are excluded from the Metro Lounge and probably won't pony up for the Legacy Club, you are essentially confining them to Amtrak's coach waiting rooms, which is cruel and unusual punishment imo.


----------



## PVD (Jul 27, 2015)

Multiple entrances might be more convenient for passengers, but they have the potential of raising costs in a big way, or creating odd traffic flows. Right now, the standard lounge design for airlines/Amtrak brings passengers past a check in desk which keeps out (most of) those who don't belong. Having multiple points of entry might require paying someone additional.


----------



## jis (Jul 27, 2015)

For that reason I suspect multiple entry point is unlikely to happen.


----------



## neroden (Jul 27, 2015)

Well, the Red Cap entrance would only be used by Red Caps, so that wouldn't be an issue.

There are usually two people working at the Metro Lounge at Chicago anyway -- what harm in putting one upstairs and one downstairs? If it doesn't work out, they can always shut one of the entrances.


----------



## PVD (Jul 27, 2015)

You may be right, but we are talking Amtrak. You could even separate the stream of passengers without luggage to drop away from the storage area which would help also, but .......


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 28, 2015)

Since it seems no one here has yet to actually go in the Legacy (including me as I currently sit in a not at all crowded Metropolitan) I can report the Red Cap who handles the Bag Storage said as of now Legacy is not much different than Metropolitan other than tending to often get more crowded since it is open to anyone with a Tenner. It does go up to $20 after 1 AUG and there are rumors they may start selling alcohol.

With just a couple hours to lay out I took his word and kept $10 in the Kitty.


----------



## PVD (Jul 28, 2015)

All the way back at the beginning of the thread, someone posted interior pictures, and a little later there is one person who went inside. When I went through last month I couldn't see any reason to pay $10 either.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 28, 2015)

It sounds like they'll give u a quickie "free look" if its not crowded! Don't know if I'd pay the $10 ( soon to be $20)unless I was riding Coach since Biz Class,Sleeping Car and AGR Status members get to use the Metro Lounge for Free!


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 28, 2015)

If this were LA I could certainly understand the desire to continue using the friendly and well appointed Metro Lounge. Chicago's Metro Lounge is rather tacky and outdated by comparison and is staffed by folks that don't always seem to know Amtrak's own rules and can suddenly turn bossy and abrasive over any random thing that happens to displease them. Personally I look forward to seeing the new Legacy Club with my own eyes once they're in full swing. I don't understand the need to pass judgement and post random hearsay from third parties. If your opinion is based on what somebody else said then maybe you should let them do the posting next time.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 28, 2015)

Here are pics I took from the Legacy club on July 21st


----------



## Ryan (Jul 28, 2015)

That's a fine looking space, can't wait to see it.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 29, 2015)

Great pics Kevin, thanks for sharing!

While the current Metro Lounge was under going renovation a few years ago, I enjoyed visiting the temporary Lounge which was in part of this space!


----------



## Railroad Bill (Jul 29, 2015)

Nice photos Kevin. Will be interested in looking at the lounge, but with the two of us paying $10 or [email protected], will probably opt for the Metro Lounge. I can get a lot of Giordanno's pizza for that


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 29, 2015)

Ryan said:


> That's a fine looking space, can't wait to see it.


&



jimhudson said:


> Great pics Kevin, thanks for sharing!


&



Railroad Bill said:


> Nice photos Kevin.


Agreed. Windows, sunlight, and interesting aesthetics. Now all it needs is a functioning bar and a price high enough to keep out the riffraff.


----------



## jis (Jul 29, 2015)

For the frequent users something like an annual membership or perhaps a hook in with something like the Priority Pass would be an excellent enhancement worth considering.


----------



## PVD (Jul 29, 2015)

You will probably have more trouble with high income commuters paying for admission, getting drunk, and throwing their sense of entitlement around than you will ever get from the people paying "first class" fares on Amtrak. I'm not sure I know who the real riff-raff are.


----------



## Palmetto (Jul 29, 2015)

PVD said:


> You will probably have more trouble with high income commuters paying for admission, getting drunk, and throwing their sense of entitlement around than you will ever get from the people paying "first class" fares on Amtrak. I'm not sure I know who the real riff-raff are.


I'm not so sure high income commuters or anyone else who's worked a full day is interested in delaying by too much their departure for home. Unless home is not a happy place. :unsure:


----------



## Paul CHI (Jul 29, 2015)

I can't imagine what a zoo CUS will be during this construction, given what it already is...


----------



## DetroitTed (Jul 29, 2015)

jis said:


> For the frequent users something like an annual membership or perhaps a hook in with something like the Priority Pass would be an excellent enhancement worth considering.


I particularly agree with making it available through Priority Pass. In fact, I tried to contact them to make that suggestion, but like most websites, it's close to impossible to even get a working email address to send to ( and I haven't tried since my first failed attempt).


----------



## PVD (Jul 29, 2015)

Go to a busy commuter bar and try and make sense of it. Your premise is totally logical, sadly it just doesn't always play out that way.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 29, 2015)

Not to mention all of the suburban bars located within short staggering distance of the station.


----------



## Amtrak Cajun (Jul 29, 2015)

I think this will be a great thing for coach passengers especially. 20 bucks really isnt a bad price for a comfy spot to stay and have some snacks, and the priority boarding thing is nice, even if we still have to do the Kinder walk, at least we can do it before the other coach passengers. 

Im sad that the Metro Deli is gone though, I enjoyed the food there the last time I went through Meatloaf sandwich was gooood.


----------



## neroden (Jul 30, 2015)

Paul CHI said:


> I can't imagine what a zoo CUS will be during this construction, given what it already is...


Well, the order of staging appears to be:

(1) Build stuff in the current vacant, closed rooms in the Great Hall,

(2) Open them, vacating the locations in the concourse,

(3) Demolish things in the concourse, opening the space up

So I think it actually won't be that bad.


----------



## Manny T (Aug 16, 2015)

In connection with our ongoing discussion of the Legacy Club, I thought people might enjoy seeing this picture of the "luxurious coach Amtrak waiting room at CUS" someone just posted on Yelp today. Enjoy 

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/amtrak-chicago?select=dxSHymNY7HlieB9QTMl5pw

Here's another good one from the same person: http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/amtrak-chicago?select=6giq8tpgSGGNjIFtTplccw


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 16, 2015)

Manny T said:


> In connection with our ongoing discussion of the Legacy Club, I thought people might enjoy seeing this picture of the "luxurious coach Amtrak waiting room at CUS" someone just posted on Yelp today. Enjoy
> 
> http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/amtrak-chicago?select=dxSHymNY7HlieB9QTMl5pw
> 
> Here's another good one from the same person: http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/amtrak-chicago?select=6giq8tpgSGGNjIFtTplccw


Yup. It's even more "luxurious" when it's packed full of people and screaming kids on a 90-degree day and the only solution is a couple of huge box fans.

Waiting in the Great Hall isn't much better - more space, but the skylights create a greenhouse effect, so it's just as warm. <_<


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 16, 2015)

Why is that woman lying on the floor that everyone has walked on and next to a garbage can? I realize she is connecting herself to whatever electronic device she has, but I see this all the time, especially at TRE. Haven't people heard of germs?


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 16, 2015)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Why is that woman lying on the floor that everyone has walked on and next to a garbage can? I realize she is connecting herself to whatever electronic device she has, but I see this all the time, especially at TRE. Haven't people heard of germs?


I've heard of bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites, and chemical residues. On the other hand I've never really understood what exactly "germs" are supposed to be. Is it anything like a "cootie?" Whenever I see the word "germ" it always seems to be associated with a product that casually promotes widespread antimicrobial resistance.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 16, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Mystic River Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > Why is that woman lying on the floor that everyone has walked on and next to a garbage can? I realize she is connecting herself to whatever electronic device she has, but I see this all the time, especially at TRE. Haven't people heard of germs?
> ...


To those of us nonscientific types, yes. And I bet all that other stuff is on the floor, too!


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 16, 2015)

I'm fairly sure the chairs in that area are just as "germy" as the floor. People put their bags and feet on the chairs.

I've sat on that floor before, as it's common for every seat to be taken. I wash my hands before eating and use hand sanitizer if I can't. So far, I haven't contracted any kind of floor-borne illness.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 16, 2015)

Good point, Sarah. I forgot about the chairs being just as awful.


----------



## George K (Aug 16, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> I haven't contracted any kind of floor-borne illness.


That you know of...


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 16, 2015)

The primary difference between the chairs and the floor is that the chairs look like they could be easily cleaned by hand while the carpet is basically just a giant immovable sponge that cannot be cleaned thoroughly on a regular basis, at least in practical terms. If Amtrak was serious about keeping the lounge clean they should have used tile or linoleum across the entire floor.


----------



## Manny T (Aug 16, 2015)

"Floor borne illness" - something new for me to be phobic about!!

The more I think about it, $20 a pop for the Legacy Club isn't looking so bad!

The most common diseases picked up in Amtrak's coach waiting area are confusion, boredom, irritation and lateness.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 16, 2015)

Manny T said:


> "Floor borne illness" - something new for me to be phobic about! The more I think about it, $20 a pop for the Legacy Club isn't looking so bad!


Wait till we tell you what's hiding on the $20 bill you're handing over. h34r:

In all honesty though foodborne illnesses are a real threat and are far more common than picking up something from a dirty chair or floor. The reason is that fresh food is a far more appealing location for harmful contagions to grow and fester than a relatively inhospitable chair or floor. In addition when you consume fresh food you're giving it far greater access to your body than a chair or floor would typically enjoy. Unless you went around licking said chair or floor. Unfortunately unless you're the person preparing the food chances are you will have little if any direct control or observation over how safe or dangerous it is to consume it.


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 16, 2015)

I agree that the floor should be tile or linoleum, not carpet. I do think it's rather odd that they would choose something that's hard to keep clean.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 16, 2015)

George K said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't contracted any kind of floor-borne illness.
> ...


As a Resident of CHI, and Amtrak Rider, I'm sure you're familiar with the condition of Union Station, especially the Cattle pen waiting Rooms!


----------



## neroden (Aug 16, 2015)

Linoleum tends to look "cheap" where tile looks fancy.

Tile is good stuff. Looks nice, *extremely* durable, extremely easy to clean.

The modern standard for floors in places like railway stations, however, is terrazzo. Weird stuff, very durable, looks fancy, even easier to clean than tile.


----------



## George K (Aug 16, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> As a Resident of CHI, and Amtrak Rider, I'm sure you're familiar with the condition of Union Station, especially the Cattle pen waiting Rooms!


Fortunately, Jim, my experiences at CUS have been either brief or pleasant:

1) When I go there to spend time in the city, I take the BNSF - station is about 200 yards from my home. A nice quick walk, and I'm downtown in less than 40 minutes. Then, when I get there, it's a quick ride up the escalator to Canal St, where I catch a cab and I'm out.

2) When riding Amtrak, it's the Metra to the Met Lounge, where I can enjoy the fine complementary snacks and beverages as well as the helpful and friendly staff.

No cattle pens for me, though I do walk past them - nose appropriately in the air.


----------



## andersone (Aug 17, 2015)

I believe civilization has made it through some 3,00 generations without hand sanitizer.


----------



## PRR 60 (Aug 17, 2015)

andersone said:


> I believe civilization has made it through some 3,00 generations without hand sanitizer.


Amtrak put a hand sanitizer dispenser at the exit from the men's room at 30th Street Station, Philadelphia. The last time I used it it had been filled with liquid hand soap. I had to go back into the men's room to wash that gunk off. Served me right, I suppose.


----------



## dlagrua (Aug 17, 2015)

We were at CUS on Aug 3rd and again on Aug 11th. On both visits we passed by the Legacy Club and looked in. it was nearly empty. I'd be surprised if this club lasts a year.

When we travel through Chicage we usually have a 3-4 hour layover but does everyone like to sit it a room all that time? We check our carry-on bags at the Met Lounge, go out to the Great Hall past the Legacy Club to Jackson street and walk 5 blocks west to So. Halstead Street which is Greektown. Its about a 15 minute walk. There you have many restaurants like the Greek Island, Athena (and many more), a CVS pharmacy, Starbucks, Bakery, Marianos Gourmet Supermarket (where you can have a great lunch as well) and Whole Foods. On the walk you pass Lou Mitchell's, a landmark diner type restaurant that has been there since 1923. Point is this that this Legacy Club only caters to people that want to sit on their derriere waiting for their train. They need volume to stay in business. My predcition is that they won't last long.

Corrected: Restaurant is indeed Lou Mitchells and one one block from Union Station. The place is also a bakery but when we got there they were sold out. The manager was so nice to us that he even threw some Mild Duds in our bags. We have to eat there next time in Chicago.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Aug 17, 2015)

dlagrua said:


> We were at CUS on Aug 3rd and again on Aug 11th. On both visits we passed by the Legacy Club and looked in. it was nearly empty. I'd be surprised if this club lasts a year.
> 
> When we travel through Chicage we usually have a 3-4 hour layover but does everyone like to sit it a room all that time? We check our carry-on bags at the Met Lounge, go out to the Great Hall past the Legacy Club to Jackson street and walk 5 blocks west to So. Halstead Street which is Greektown. Its about a 15 minute walk. There you have many restaurants like the Greek Island, Athena (and many more), a CVS pharmacy, Starbucks, Bakery, Marianos Gourmet Supermarket (where you can have a great lunch as well) and Whole Foods. On the walk you pass Paul Mitchell's, a landmark diner type restaurant that has been there since 1923. Point is this that this Legacy Club only caters to people that want to sit on their derriere waiting for their train. They need volume to stay in business. My predcition is that they won't last long.


Lou Mitchell, not Paul Mitchell.

I suspect the location of the lounge is obscure to many. The few times I've been in the Great Hall, there has not been a lot of people. Are the signs in the main areas of the station advertising the lounge?

Edit:

Paul Mitchell






Lou Mitchell's


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 17, 2015)

andersone said:


> I believe civilization has made it through some 3,00 generations without hand sanitizer.


I only use it when I don't have access to soap and water.

Using it too often not only prevents your immune system from getting a necessary workout and staying strong, it also dries out your skin.


----------



## trainman74 (Aug 17, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> Using it too often not only prevents your immune system from getting a necessary workout and staying strong, it also dries out your skin.


Hand sanitizer is mostly alcohol. Instead of putting alcohol on your hands, put it in your mouth. Do that enough, and you won't be worried about germs anymore... or anything else, for that matter.


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 18, 2015)

trainman74 said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Using it too often not only prevents your immune system from getting a necessary workout and staying strong, it also dries out your skin.
> ...


I like the way you think.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> Using it too often not only prevents your immune system from getting a necessary workout and staying strong, it also dries out your skin.


It also leaves your skin ripe anything that is _not_ killed by sanitizer.



trainman74 said:


> Hand sanitizer is mostly alcohol. Instead of putting alcohol on your hands, put it in your mouth. Do that enough, and you won't be worried about germs anymore... or anything else, for that matter.


If you're talking about the sanitizer itself then it'd probably do some serious harm if you tried to ingest more than a small amount. Mainly because it's a different kind of alcohol with the wrong chemical properties for imbibing. You may still get a bit of a buzz but before long you'd begin experiencing a rather unpleasant amount of organ failure possibly followed by death.

Back when I was a child we had a very simple identifier for substances that should not be ingested. It was perfect for children who were too young to read but old enough to understand simple visual cues. I have no idea why they got rid of it. Maybe it wasn't testing well when it came to purchase time?

Anybody else remember the skull and crossbones image or why it was removed from potentially lethal household poisons?


----------



## Ryan (Aug 18, 2015)

I remember this guy from my youth. Don't see them much anymore either.


----------



## JayPea (Aug 18, 2015)

I don't remember why it was removed--or if I ever knew in the first place--but certainly remember the skull and crossbones. It certainly made an impression on those children who were too young too read as DA said.


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 18, 2015)

Ryan said:


> I remember this guy from my youth. Don't see them much anymore either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mr. Yuk! 

My mom had a bunch of those stickers, and I remember seeing the commercials on TV.


----------



## niemi24s (Aug 18, 2015)

There was also Officer Ugg who seems to have faded into the sunset will all the other cutesy-looking icons. But the skull & crossbones still appears, such as on a bottle of lye purchased a few years ago to clean drains. I can think of no other symbol that conveys danger as well as the skull & crossbones, hence its use on pirate ships and some minefield markers.

Maybe the skull & crossbones went out of favor with the do-gooders after it was found to cause anxiety in California lab rats. [i just made that up!]


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 18, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> Maybe the skull & crossbones went out of favor with the do-gooders after it was found to cause anxiety in California lab rats. [i just made that up!]


ROTFLMAO!!!


----------



## trainman74 (Aug 18, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> trainman74 said:
> 
> 
> > Hand sanitizer is mostly alcohol. Instead of putting alcohol on your hands, put it in your mouth. Do that enough, and you won't be worried about germs anymore... or anything else, for that matter.
> ...


No, I was talking about the drinking type of alcohol. When they say "pick your poison," they usually don't mean it literally.


----------



## GG-1 (Aug 18, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> niemi24s said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the skull & crossbones went out of favor with the do-gooders after it was found to cause anxiety in California lab rats. [i just made that up!]
> ...


Ditto!

Aloha


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Aug 19, 2015)

GG-1 said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > niemi24s said:
> ...


This just made my day! I've seen lots of funny things on my computer today, but this was the best. 
And it got me thinking, I'm sure the skull and crossbones symbol was on those 2 bottles of ant poison I drank when I was a kid. Maybe "Mr. Yuk" would have prevented my 2 year old self from doing that.


----------



## neroden (Aug 20, 2015)

It's very odd that Mr. Yuk isn't being used any more. It was specifically added to poisons after psychological testing of children -- it was found that young children were not deterred by a skull and crossbones (they didn't associate them with anything bad), so they did research to find something which very young children DID associate with "bad", and the result was Mr. Yuk.

I would assume Mr. Yuk isn't being used because the United States government sucks, has sucked since 2000, and just doesn't bother to try to protect babies from poisons any more. But I may be too cynical.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 20, 2015)

neroden said:


> It's very odd that Mr. Yuk isn't being used any more. It was specifically added to poisons after psychological testing of children -- it was found that young children were not deterred by a skull and crossbones (they didn't associate them with anything bad), so they did research to find something which very young children DID associate with "bad", and the result was Mr. Yuk. I would assume Mr. Yuk isn't being used because the United States government sucks, has sucked since 2000, and just doesn't bother to try to protect babies from poisons any more. But I may be too cynical.


Apparently "Mr. Yuk" enjoys commercial copyright protections and as a result there may be a legal and bureaucratic disincentive toward using it. Personally I think that anyone who makes or sells something which is harmful when ingested should be able to add Mr. Yuk to their labeling without any need for payment or permission. Unfortunately that would probably require the owner to voluntarily place the logo into the public domain.


----------



## niemi24s (Aug 20, 2015)

To my best recollection, Officer Ugg and Mr. Yuk were in the form of stickers distributed to parents by local poison control centers and I don't think the US Government had anything directly to do with those centers. Parents would then affix the stickers to whatever they chose - I put mine on my coffee cup.

But I think Neroden may be correct when saying those stickers are more of a deterrent to a toddler than the skull & crossbones - especially if the parent places the stickers in the presence of the toddler along with a verbal warning. But then, some toddlers may not be able to comprehend the warning and then subsequently investigate with tragic results. Maybe.


----------

