# nervous



## Heather (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm planning our first train trip. My husband has always wanted to travel by train, I'm a little nervous. We are planning on Grandforks to Portland and then off to San Francisco for a couple of days and then return. We can only get coach seats at this time. Any advice for a nervous traveller? Also are the seats fairly comfortable and quiet to sleep?

Thankyou

heather


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jun 13, 2009)

Heather Rodger said:


> I'm planning our first train trip. My husband has always wanted to travel by train, I'm a little nervous. We are planning on Grandforks to Portland and then off to San Francisco for a couple of days and then return. We can only get coach seats at this time. Any advice for a nervous traveller? Also are the seats fairly comfortable and quiet to sleep?
> Thankyou
> 
> heather


Step 1. Read this forum :lol: you can find almost anything out about any train on this forum and if you can't find the answer you can ask and there are people on this board teeming with knowledge.

The train is a really relaxing and fun way to travel. The two trains you mentioned have have most members favorite coach seats. You should be able to get decent sleep aboard the train.


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## sky12065 (Jun 13, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Read this forum :lol: you can find almost anything out about any train on this forum and if you can't find the answer you can ask and there are people on this board teeming with knowledge.


This is very true, but what I have found even more informative is how you can get answers to interesting questions you never even thought of!


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## PRR 60 (Jun 13, 2009)

First, welcome to Amtrak Unlimited! You've come to the right place for information and opinions on Amtrak travel.

One immediate suggestion is to look at the Amtrak Travel Tips pages maintained by On-Track On-Line. Those pages will answer many of your "nuts and bolts" questions about what it is like to travel by Amtrak.

OTOL Amtrak Tips

In specific answer to your question, the coach seats on Amtrak have very generous leg room (pitch), and are quite wide. With two of you travelling, you will almost certainly get a pair together, so that makes the seat partner issue a non-issue. The seats have a decent, but not great recline. Depending on the circumstances, the car may be quiet, or not so quiet. It all depends on who's travelling.

The ability to sleep in Amtrak coach seats depends on one's ability to sleep in less than ideal circumstances. Some people can sleep anywhere under any conditions, and they do fine. Others (like me) find sleeping in a seat virtually impossible, so that becomes an issue for Amtrak overnight travel in coach. I know some apply some medicinal remedies to help sleeping in coach. In short, how coach will work all depends.

I'm sure others will chime in. Again, welcome to AU.


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## GoldenSpike (Jun 13, 2009)

> Depending on the circumstances, the car may be quiet, or not so quiet.


Ear plugs a must for the 'not so quiet' events.


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## amtkstn (Jun 13, 2009)

Be sure to bring your own pillow because the one they give out are really thin.

The best pillow is the three doller one at Wal-mart, I allways stop there and pick one up before boarding my first train on a trip.


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 13, 2009)

Hi Heather, and welcome to the forum.

The seats in coach are somewhat like a recliner. They get a little uncomfortable when you sit for a long time, but during the day you can get up and walk around. They usually pass around little pillows, which work better than the ones at home, which are too big. Picture taking a pillow from your bed and using it on your recliner. Just too big.

I think that once you get on the train and then come back home you'll want to do it all over again.

Do you know what is making your nervous? If you can pinpoint exactly what it is, we might be able to help you.

Let us know if there are other questions.

Betty


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 13, 2009)

Almost everyone I have "turned on" to Amtrak has always remarked about the size of the seats and the "roominess" of the train. I'm a tad bit concerned about you going that far in coach. Now if your in the 20's maybe 30's, you'll do fine, but coach can be kinda tough if your more older. If I'm overnighting it on a train, I almost always have a roomette. (but not always) I have a very physical job and my body looks and feels like a 70 year old man that played pro football for 15 years. (I'm 46)You can always "upgrade" while onboard if rooms are available and ALWAYS wait until the wheels are moving on the train. You will get a sleeper room at the lowest bucket fare instead of the price that was being charged while the train was sitting at a station.

Nervous? :unsure: Don't be at all my friend, kick back, relax, take your watch(s) off and get some long awaited down time. Its now time for you to replace your nervousness with excitement!


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## the_traveler (Jun 13, 2009)

Welcome aboard!

You may want to try and get an onboard upgrade for at least one of the nights of your travel. (You don't necessarily have to get it for every night of your trip! You could say go coach 1 night, get a room 1 night and then go coach. This may save money!) It (the cost of the room) may seem alot, but remember, it includes all meals in the dining car! (When in coach, you must pay for your meals.) So you may save $30-$50 a day - per person! And the cost of the room is not per person, but per room!

The routes you are on are considered by many to be among the best on Amtrak! 

Finally, have fun! And let us know how much you enjoyed the trip - and when your next one will be!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 13, 2009)

Is the train to PDX sold out, perhaps you could get a roomette(bedrooms are very pricey on this train

in the summer)to Seattle, then take the train down to PDX and the Bay Area. The earlier you book the better,

lots of info on sleepers,fares etc. in this forum, coach is not that bad but two nights might be the luimit for us

"experienced" folks!As they said the meals are included on first class and the food is pretty good on this

train, looking forward to the buffalo meatloaf on my trip in July!Bon voyage!Welcome to the best club in the

world!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 13, 2009)

Follow up: also take a light blanket,cotton is good and consider a sleep shade for your eyes,

sometimes depending on your seat and when the train stops, noise and light might make it difficult to sleep!The seats are as

comfortable as business class on airplanes, better than coach on a jet!(and you can get up and walk around

and dont have to take off your clothes and be hassled like @ an airport!!Remember too you can take snacks,food and

drink(non-alcoholic except in sleepers) which saves you $$$ and also you dont have to drink PEPSI!!!!!!


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## the_traveler (Jun 13, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Is the train to PDX sold out, perhaps you could get a roomette(bedrooms are very pricey on this trainin the summer)to Seattle, then take the train down to PDX and the Bay Area.


The only thing about this option (going via Seattle) is that it requires an overnight in Seattle! Westbound, the Empire Builder is scheduled to arrive into Seattle a few minutes after the Coast Starlight departs from Seattle. Going via Portland is a same day (4 hour) connection!

And I also want to add that even if a sweater is not needed to be worn, it comes in handy rolled up and used as another pillow or as a head shade for sleeping (to cover your head from the light)!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 13, 2009)

follow up on your return:the seattle vs. pdx info is correct, however there is no meal service(box food)

from spokane to pdx, vs. no lounge from spokane to seattle. Also the dreaded bus ride from

Klamath Falls to Pasco to connect with #8 to Chi is NOT as good as #8 out of Seattle with the diner!

Portland is probably a prettier town than Seattle all things considered but both are great!!!

And if in the bay area have youy considered the NAPA Wine Train, its on the "Bucket List" of

things to do before you die!!!Im going in July, has anyone else taken this trip?????(I know its pricey

but what isnt in the Bay Area and West Coast!!!


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## the_traveler (Jun 13, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Also the dreaded bus ride from Klamath Falls to Pasco to connect with #8 to Chi is NOT as good as #8 out of Seattle with the diner!


With the improved OTP of the CS, they have stopped the bus ride months ago!  Now it is a direct connection to the EB in Portland again!


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## saxman (Jun 13, 2009)

Hey, I lived in Grand Forks for 5 years. So take it from me. You should have nothing to worry. Like others have said, you're in for a very scenic ride on one of America's most popular trains. If you really want to be in a sleeper, more often then not someone will cancel. So check back often on Amtrak's website. Often times one will pop up. If you do get stuck in coach, its not that bad. They provide pillows but you can bring your own bigger one. I like to wear a hooded sweatshirt and bought a good eye mask for sleeping in coach. I sleep really well. You are free to move about the train and don't forget to visit the Sightseer Lounge Car for viewing. Also have a few meals in the dining car. Hope you enjoy your trip.


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## AlanB (Jun 13, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Also the dreaded bus ride from Klamath Falls to Pasco to connect with #8 to Chi is NOT as good as #8 out of Seattle with the diner!
> ...


Not to mention that the bus ride was to connect the north bound Coast Starlight to the westbound Empire Builder. Heather is going the other way, eastbound Builder to the southbound Coast Starlight. There was never a bus ride in this direction.


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## Trainmans daughter (Jun 13, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> follow up on your return:the seattle vs. pdx info is correct, however there is no meal service(box food)from spokane to pdx, vs. no lounge from spokane to seattle. Also the dreaded bus ride from
> 
> Klamath Falls to Pasco to connect with #8 to Chi is NOT as good as #8 out of Seattle with the diner!
> 
> ...


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## Trainmans daughter (Jun 13, 2009)

To Jim Hudson regarding Napa Valley Wine Train. My family had a Christmas tradition for several years of riding the lunch train on Christmas Eve. What fun! At the end of the 3 hour ride, we were all so relaxed, we almost had to be poured off the train! And that was even true for the non-drinkers!

My dad helped refurbish the RPO car you will see by the side of the track at the station. Usually it is locked, but go in the office at the station and tell them you are a friend of Ray Balch and you would like the key. They usually have no problem with that.

Enjoy the ride!!


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jun 13, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> The ability to sleep in Amtrak coach seats depends on one's ability to sleep in less than ideal circumstances. Some people can sleep anywhere under any conditions, and they do fine. Others (like me) find sleeping in a seat virtually impossible, so that becomes an issue for Amtrak overnight travel in coach. I know some apply some medicinal remedies to help sleeping in coach. In short, how coach will work all depends.


Yea, I am like you. I can't sleep in a seat.

One thing to add, is that seating is never more than 2. There is no "middle seat" like on a airline. Therefore, the OP and her husband don't have to worry about sharing their row with a stranger.

However, unlike on an airline, there is no pre-assigned seating. The OP and her husband aren't guaranteed to get two seats together.


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## JayPea (Jun 13, 2009)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...



If she's going eastbound on the Builder to connect with the southbound Coast Starlight, that's a heckuva run! Around the world, in fact! :lol: Eastbound is toward Chicago, westbound to Portland and Seattle.


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## the_traveler (Jun 13, 2009)

JayPea said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


You beat me to it! :angry: 

The bus ride was from the NB CS to the *EAST*bound EB!  If I had to take a (too long) bus ride to get to PDX from KFS, I'd *REALLY* be PO'ed! :angry:


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## EB_OBS (Jun 13, 2009)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...



I think you got that one flip-flopped. The northbound CS used to have that bus connection to catch the eastbound EB. But yes, Heather is going the other way so there's no bus connection.


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## EB_OBS (Jun 13, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Ah, I didn't see the second page. You beat me to it by several hours, haha.


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## Heather (Jun 13, 2009)

Thankyou to all the seasoned travellers. I think the nerves are because I don't know what to expect. The only rail car adventure I've been on is the sight seeing one in Alaska. I was scared to death.... they have summer students driving this thing. I was feeling all good about it till I saw where we were going. The hubby road between the cars taking pictures, and I lay on the floor of the train, with all the sweet seniors patting my back...lol...

I'm sure it can't be that bad...

My husband is so excited. We figure if we can't cut the ride in coach will look for a cancelled roomette. He of course could sleep upside down in a city bus... I'm not a good sleeper no matter where I am. So I'll just relax, read and enjoy the scenery... and hopefully not be too panicked... It's a long trip but we will get 4 nights in San Francisco once we land at the pier. We have been all around that area in the car but never stayed in the city. So that should also be fun. I think the hubby is going to be hooked on this mode of transportation. He was a long distance truck driver for many years, and never had time to admire the scenery... so here goes nothing...lol

I"m packing all those items as suggested. What is the best item to pack overnight essentials in? We are taking too large suitcases and I'm thinking I should check them and just carry an overnight type bag, with the required water, snacks, books, and IPOD with headphones. I also have a scanner, which I'm hesitant to bring over the border.. they can be funny about those things at the old border crossing.

As for bathrooms... I see that showers are not available.. is there room in the washrooms to freshen up a bit.

Thankyou everyone

Heather


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## sunchaser (Jun 13, 2009)

Heather said:


> Thankyou to all the seasoned travellers. I think the nerves are because I don't know what to expect. The only rail car adventure I've been on is the sight seeing one in Alaska. I was scared to death.... they have summer students driving this thing. I was feeling all good about it till I saw where we were going. The hubby road between the cars taking pictures, and I lay on the floor of the train, with all the sweet seniors patting my back...lol...
> I'm sure it can't be that bad...
> 
> My husband is so excited. We figure if we can't cut the ride in coach will look for a cancelled roomette. He of course could sleep upside down in a city bus... I'm not a good sleeper no matter where I am. So I'll just relax, read and enjoy the scenery... and hopefully not be too panicked... It's a long trip but we will get 4 nights in San Francisco once we land at the pier. We have been all around that area in the car but never stayed in the city. So that should also be fun. I think the hubby is going to be hooked on this mode of transportation. He was a long distance truck driver for many years, and never had time to admire the scenery... so here goes nothing...lol
> ...


Heather,

Why so nervous? If you allow yourself to relax, you will enjoy yourself more! You can use a carry on 28"x 22" X 14".

You could also bring a cooler for food if you want. I would highly recommend getting a roomette if you can. The bathrooms are real small, but you could take a washcloth/baggie for clean ups too.

Relax & have a good trip!


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## JayPea (Jun 13, 2009)

I think there's room to freshen up in the washrooms but then again, I don't need to be too fresh. :lol: One issue I know some have is being able to wash their hair. There are waterless shampoos that are available for that. The times I've traveled coach, I've only gone overnight so it wasn't a problem, and when I did take a longer trip I had a roomette with acess to a shower, so I've never had to do that. But there should be room enough to clean up.


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## the_traveler (Jun 13, 2009)

You're correct, that there are no showers in coach, but there is a larger changing room in each car. There are also 5 rest rooms in each car. (The sleepers also have a shower in each car.)

The Superliners (bi-level trains - which the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight are) have a large storage area on the lower level. You can store your bags there (if you wish) and have access to then at any time. But note anyone else does also - but they also realize you have access to there bags also. (I would not be too worried about that.) If you check bags, you have no access to them until your final destination. The drawback, *YOU* must transfer the bags at the connection points! (If the bags are checked, they will be transferred for you.)

Are you also aware that you will take a bus from Emeryville to San Francisco - across the Bay? :huh: Amtrak does not go to San Francisco itself.

You mentioned "across the border" - I assume you mean you live in Canada? :huh: These 2 trains do not cross the international border.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 13, 2009)

Heather said:


> Thankyou to all the seasoned travellers. I think the nerves are because I don't know what to expect. The only rail car adventure I've been on is the sight seeing one in Alaska. I was scared to death.... they have summer students driving this thing. I was feeling all good about it till I saw where we were going. The hubby road between the cars taking pictures, and I lay on the floor of the train, with all the sweet seniors patting my back...lol...


One thing you need not worry about is the engineers on Amtrak trains in general, and the Empire Builder in particular. They are all old, terribly experienced, and know their routes like the backs of their hands, every signal, every grade crossing, every switch. You'll be on BNSF's mainline, which is maintained to very high standards, if only because of the vast number of fast container trains that go on it. You're vastly safer on the train than you are driving U.S. 2, and the seats are more comfortable than those in any automobile. When was the last time someone got hurt on the Empire Builder? 1945?

I'd say take a deck of cards along, but my wife and I are very attached to the deck we bought on the Empire Builder, with the train's logo on the back. I'd echo those who suggest taking snacks, especially fresh fruit and raw vegetables. Walk the train, enjoy the lounge car, get at least the occasional meal in the diner. If you try the broasted chicken dinner they take on in Havre, let us know how it is. Get out at the longer stops (Minot, Havre, sometimes Shelby) and stretch your legs and admire the big, beautiful train. Try to upgrade to a sleeper if you have a chance and can spare the money.

Talk to your neighbors -- they often are the most memorable part of any train trip.

One thing, it's a long way to Portland, and even longer to San Francisco. Don't look at your watch or calculate how the train is keeping time. It won't make the train any faster, and time won't pass any faster. This is the time for big, trashy novels, that knitting project, long pieces of music on your Ipod, whatever.

Most of all, enjoy all of the great country you'll be traveling through.

Damn, now I want to take the Empire Builder again.


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## JayPea (Jun 14, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> One thing you need not worry about is the engineers on Amtrak trains in general, and the Empire Builder in particular. They are all old, terribly experienced, and know their routes like the backs of their hands, every signal, every grade crossing, every switch. You'll be on BNSF's mainline, which is maintained to very high standards, if only because of the vast number of fast container trains that go on it. You're vastly safer on the train than you are driving U.S. 2, and the seats are more comfortable than those in any automobile. When was the last time someone got hurt on the Empire Builder? 1945?


I fell down the stairs of the Vista Dome on the Empire Builder in 1965 and got a bump on the head. Does that count?  The Empire Builder is indeed run by seasoned veterans, not young kids, and is a very safe train. Sit back, relax, and enjoy! And make plans for your next train trip


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## sky12065 (Jun 14, 2009)

JayPea said:


> I fell down the stairs of the Vista Dome on the Empire Builder in 1965 and got a bump on the head. Does that count?


I personally wouldn't have admitted that publicly. Someone could have wound-up using it against me! :lol:


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## JayPea (Jun 14, 2009)

I was five years old at the time. So it was excusable!


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## PRR 60 (Jun 14, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> ....One thing you need not worry about is the engineers on Amtrak trains in general, and the Empire Builder in particular. *They are all old*, terribly experienced, and know their routes like the backs of their hands, every signal, every grade crossing, every switch.


LOL! I know a couple of Amtrak engineer-types who might take issue with being called "old"!

Why do I have this vision of a crew change with the new engineer heading to the locomotive using a walker. That's my best laugh of the day.

You're right. Amtrak engineers are pretty good and have a good safety record. However, some of them are less than 65 years old. :lol:


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 14, 2009)

The key thing here, Heather, is RELAX. The train is a forced relaxation you should take advantage of.


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## sky12065 (Jun 14, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > ....One thing you need not worry about is the engineers on Amtrak trains in general, and the Empire Builder in particular. *They are all old*, terribly experienced, and know their routes like the backs of their hands, every signal, every grade crossing, every switch.
> ...


You're right on, and I think that if the engineer was described as "older" or better yet "more experienced," it would have been more appropriate. But then again, it wouldn't have been as humorous... would it?


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## PRR 60 (Jun 14, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> ...When was the last time someone got hurt on the Empire Builder? 1945?


April 3, 2005: derailment at Home Valley, WA due to track defect. Minor injuries: 14 treated at local hospitals, 2 kept overnight.


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## sky12065 (Jun 14, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> The key thing here, Heather, is RELAX. The train is a forced relaxation you should take advantage of.


Forced relaxation? I don't think that anyone has ever been forced to relax on an Amtrak train trip... except for maybe Traveler! :huh: ..... :lol:


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## PRR 60 (Jun 14, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > The key thing here, Heather, is RELAX. The train is a forced relaxation you should take advantage of.
> ...


Most people get forced relaxation through an IV line and wake up in the recovery room. Now that's relaxing! :lol: again!

This board is quite amusing tonight: or maybe it's that chardonnay I had earlier.


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## sunchaser (Jun 14, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


I don't think I want that kind of forced relaxation! The Chardonnay souunds like a better idea. (in moderation, of course)


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 14, 2009)

Heather said:


> I"m packing all those items as suggested. What is the best item to pack overnight essentials in? We are taking too large suitcases and I'm thinking I should check them and just carry an overnight type bag, with the required water, snacks, books, and IPOD with headphones. I also have a scanner, which I'm hesitant to bring over the border.. they can be funny about those things at the old border crossing.
> As for bathrooms... I see that showers are not available.. is there room in the washrooms to freshen up a bit.
> 
> Thankyou everyone
> ...


I can see why you'd be nervous after a rail adventure in Alaska. It's almost as bad as a sea adventure to Alaska, which is why I won't cruise anymore.

For overnight essentials I use a big bookbag like the college kids use. In fact, I bought it at the local college. It fits everything I need, including a blanket.


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## Chatter163 (Jun 14, 2009)

Heather said:


> Thankyou to all the seasoned travellers. I think the nerves are because I don't know what to expect. The only rail car adventure I've been on is the sight seeing one in Alaska. I was scared to death.... *they have summer students driving this thing*.


???


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > sky12065 said:
> ...


*HEY* - I resemble that remark! 

That's the reason I go in for operations - to get the "Happy Juice"!  I wondered how I got 3 noses!  (But I find Vodka works too! :lol: )


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak engineers are pretty good and have a good safety record. However, some of them are less than 65 years old. :lol:
> ...


To me, 49 is old!


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 14, 2009)

Heather,

I always take a smaller bag (kinda like a gym bag but a tad smaller) with the "essentials". Such as earplugs, some bottles of water, good downers (Tylenol PM) etc. I keep that near me all night long. I always take Tylenol PM. The first night is hard for me to sleep because of excitement (not nervousness) and the second night just to get another decent nights sleep.


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## darien-l (Jun 14, 2009)

If you end up in a car with noisy people, screaming children, etc., scout the train, find a quieter spot, take your destination stubs (above your seats), and relocate. If the train is not completely full, chances are, no one would mind. If you want to play it safe, ask the conductor before doing this (not the coach attendant, a lot of them tend to be kinda grumpy). Lower level coach may be your best bet for peace and quiet. Even if you don't have a lower level coach ticket, if you ask the conductor nicely and lower level coach is not too full, he will let you relocate. I've been on a couple of trains where I was the only person in lower level coach! Great for sleeping or getting work done.


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## darien-l (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.

I don't feel too bad about doing this, because the showers in the sleepers tend to go unused anyway.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 14, 2009)

darien-l said:


> I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.
> I don't feel too bad about doing this, because the showers in the sleepers tend to go unused anyway.


  A good answer for newbies(like me!) that plam long trips with passes and incoach!!thanks for the tips!Awesome!


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2009)

darien-l said:


> If you end up in a car with noisy people, screaming children, etc., scout the train, find a quieter spot, take your destination stubs (above your seats), and relocate. If the train is not completely full, chances are, no one would mind. If you want to play it safe, ask the conductor before doing this (not the coach attendant, a lot of them tend to be kinda grumpy).


*ALWAYS* ask the car attendant (*NOT* the conductor) before switching seats and especially cars! In the case of the EB, you may switch seats and cars in MT, go to sleep and wake up the next morning to find your going to Seattle not to Portland!  Or on the SL, you may board in say El Paso, move to a different car and wake the next morning going to Houston instead of Chicago!  (Only 1 coach gets switched in San Antonio to go to Chicago!) The car attendant may also have blocked off that seat for someone getting on down the line.

Also the car attendant stays with the car until the end of the run. The conductor will change every 5-7 hours on average!


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## D T Nelson (Jun 14, 2009)

darien-l said:


> I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.
> I don't feel too bad about doing this, because the showers in the sleepers tend to go unused anyway.


I assume you also leave without paying the check in restaurants, and jump the turnstile on transit. Because those are the same crime as a coach passenger using the sleeper shower: Theft of services.

I hope you get caught and put off the train the next time you try this.


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> darien-l said:
> 
> 
> > I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.
> ...


*NOT* a good answer! :angry: It's bad advice to give to newbies!

Could it work - yes. But I would also feel bad if I *BRIBED* (and that $10 tip is a bribe since you are not a sleeping car passenger) the attendant and (s)he lost their job because they let a coach passenger use the shower that their ticket does not entitle them to use! I just hope the loss of their job is worth $10!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 14, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > darien-l said:
> ...


    upon further thought,you are correct sir!its not cool to cause someoneto lose their job, especially in these perilous bush caused times!Will not try this in my travels!


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## PetalumaLoco (Jun 14, 2009)

We went down this road just about a year ago.

Sneaking a shower...while in coach :angry:


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## JayPea (Jun 14, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > PRR 60 said:
> ...




I'm 49. Maybe to YOU it's old, but not to me!  :lol: I've got plenty of living (and Amtrak traveling) to do yet!


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## Heather (Jun 14, 2009)

Thankyou all again.. I'm getting rather excited about the trip. We will check to see if there are any roomettes available once we get underway. There was none when we booked, but I understand they occasionally become available. We know about the bus ride to San Fran... its 40 mins... so that should be okay.

I have lots of reading to catch up on... and this will be the perfect time to do it. I'm freezing some water to take with me and picking up snacks in grandforks to stow in the carryon. I think we will use checked baggage. I have my pillow all ready, and some medical aids in case I need them... ( to keep others quiet...lol)

I love broasted chicken so if there is any I will try it unless we go through there at breakfast time.. which might be some what weird...

Winnipeg to San Fran via Grand Forks....

heather

The Alaska train is the White Pass yukon... and it's rather scary ( probably only to me) the cruise to Alaska was fine, the rail travel not so good.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 14, 2009)

Heather said:


> Thankyou all again.. I'm getting rather excited about the trip. We will check to see if there are any roomettes available once we get underway. There was none when we booked, but I understand they occasionally become available. We know about the bus ride to San Fran... its 40 mins... so that should be okay.
> I have lots of reading to catch up on... and this will be the perfect time to do it. I'm freezing some water to take with me and picking up snacks in grandforks to stow in the carryon. I think we will use checked baggage. I have my pillow all ready, and some medical aids in case I need them... ( to keep others quiet...lol)
> 
> I love broasted chicken so if there is any I will try it unless we go through there at breakfast time.. which might be some what weird...
> ...


You must be Canadian eh?VIA is mas mejor(better)than Amtrak but were getting better all the timeand yall will be on the best trains AMTRAK has running!Enjoy the journey, its the thing!!!


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## sunchaser (Jun 14, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> We went down this road just about a year ago.Sneaking a shower...while in coach :angry:


I echo all the comments about not sneaking from coach into the sleeper area for a shower. It is basically stealing. It's part of the 'amenties' that is paid for by sleeper passengers. You are also creating more work for the sleeper attendant. Better to bring wipes, a washcloth & some soap & do a quick clean up in coach. If showers were available in coach, that would solve the issue, but create more.


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 14, 2009)

Heather said:


> The Alaska train is the White Pass yukon... and it's rather scary ( probably only to me) the cruise to Alaska was fine, the rail travel not so good.


Heather, Amtrak is a piece of cake compared to the Yukon train ride. If you can do that, you'll have no problem with Amtrak.


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## Heather (Jun 14, 2009)

lol on the yukon white pass train... it's an American train because it's in Alaska ( for the fellow that thought it might be via rail).. it does pass into Canada in a really remote location in the middle of nowhere and then turns around and comes back. I thank my lucky stars the the significant other did not book that one. I don't think my ticker could have stood to much more excitement. When I look at it now all the brave people on that train... and me the coward in the middle of the car saying good bye to the world. It was beautiful....I think.... hard to tell when your trying not to look too much. I think seeing all the old train tracks and realizing that maintenance was probably not a big priority and the nice conductorette telling us about the students they employ for the summer....that finished it for me. I was jello.....

I'm packed up, hopefully well enough... this will be the first dry run...and we will learn from there. Everyone here has been extraordinary. I have wet ones, soap and lots relaxation to accomplish...

Thankyou all

Heather


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## PetalumaLoco (Jun 14, 2009)

Yukon White Pass RR.

I can see how you could get a little concerned:


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## sunchaser (Jun 14, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Yukon White Pass RR.
> I can see how you could get a little concerned:



Wow! Some people would not enjoy that at all! I think I'd be ok, but I can see why Heather is nervous!

There nothing similar to that on the route she's taking, is there?


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## Heather (Jun 14, 2009)

Thankyou for posting the pictures... my husband is just laughing his head off. He thinks its all terribly funny that I lay on the floor of the train, hoping for devine intervention

heather


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## gregoryla (Jun 15, 2009)

As I will soon be taking my first Amtrak trip in 30 years, and like Heather will be in coach, I would like to ask two questions that might also be of interest to Heather.

First, does one just pick an empty seat in coach and sit down? or does the car attendant escort you to a seat?

Second, how do you make reservations for the dining car? Who do you ask for reservations -- the car attendant? or do you go to the dining car and ask someone there? And are reservations always available (even if earlier or later than desired)?


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## EB_OBS (Jun 15, 2009)

gregoryla said:


> As I will soon be taking my first Amtrak trip in 30 years, and like Heather will be in coach, I would like to ask two questions that might also be of interest to Heather.
> First, does one just pick an empty seat in coach and sit down? or does the car attendant escort you to a seat?
> 
> Second, how do you make reservations for the dining car? Who do you ask for reservations -- the car attendant? or do you go to the dining car and ask someone there? And are reservations always available (even if earlier or later than desired)?


Coach seating isn't done exactly the same way on all the trains. Most long distance trains don't have assigned seats in coach, however I'm told that the Coast Starlight does and I know that the Empire Builder has been testing assigned coach seating. Generally, sections of the car are reserved for families and groups, couples and singles. AMTRAK's standing policy is that if the attendant needs to move someone in order to accommodate passengers traveling together, then they will move people.

The reservations for meal service in the dining car are usually done by the dining car LSA or Lead Service Attendant. Kinda like the manager, host, book-keeper and cashier all rolled into one. The LSA will come through the train, starting with the sleeping passenger cars first then coach, filling in reservations for meals. During peak season when sleeper cars are full then yes there may be little choice left for coach passengers. Usually it's the very last seating or perhaps occasionally some seats left at the very first seating. An alternative is to ask your car attendant about them bringing a meal from the diner to you at your seat.


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## AlanB (Jun 15, 2009)

ez223 said:


> The reservations for meal service in the dining car are usually done by the dining car LSA or Lead Service Attendant. Kinda like the manager, host, book-keeper and cashier all rolled into one.


Since you've worked the Empire Builder mainly, which uses different procedures from the rest of Amtrak, I can understand your leaving out of that list "waiter". On all other trains, except for the Auto Train, the LSA also now has to act as a waiter too, in addition to all of the other duties you've mentioned.


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## EB_OBS (Jun 15, 2009)

AlanB said:


> ez223 said:
> 
> 
> > The reservations for meal service in the dining car are usually done by the dining car LSA or Lead Service Attendant. Kinda like the manager, host, book-keeper and cashier all rolled into one.
> ...



Ah yes, how could I forget the SDS LSAs. Yeah, LSA on all the trains except the Empire Builder and the Auto-train do work usually at least two tables in addition to all the LSA only responsibilities.


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 15, 2009)

Heather said:


> Thankyou for posting the pictures... my husband is just laughing his head off. He thinks its all terribly funny that I lay on the floor of the train, hoping for devine intervention
> heather


IMHO (in my humble opinion), the picture of the train going over the bridge is the mildest part. Most of the "fun" is when the train hangs along the side of a mountain. I opted for the bus up White Pass and watched the train from the highway. No thanks!


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## Heather (Jun 15, 2009)

If I would have paid more attention to the lovely brochure and not on my..oh the husband so loves trains.... I would have waved at him from the safety of the dock. It is not a trip for the faint of heart.... I was a bit embarrassed to be the only one on the floor of the train ( I was 50) at the time and the 70 year old lovely little ladies patting me on the back and reminding my husband that his wife was losing it in the car... did he care... not much.. too busy taking pictures...lol... We still laugh about it,, but believe me, I won't be going on any more tourist sight seeing train rides.... I'm highly suspicious of them now... It's feeling pretty good about the ride at the beginning, going around a corner and actually seeing the trestle waaaaaaayyyyy up there and knowing I'm going to be hanging on the side of a mountain and disappearing into the clouds.

So the adventure begins today,, Were leaving for Grand Forks... do some shopping ( snacks sales.. you know) and then up at 3 am and off to the train.

Thankyou everyone. I will drop a note and let you know how things are going when I can

heather


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## sunchaser (Jun 15, 2009)

Heather said:


> If I would have paid more attention to the lovely brochure and not on my..oh the husband so loves trains.... I would have waved at him from the safety of the dock. It is not a trip for the faint of heart.... I was a bit embarrassed to be the only one on the floor of the train ( I was 50) at the time and the 70 year old lovely little ladies patting me on the back and reminding my husband that his wife was losing it in the car... did he care... not much.. too busy taking pictures...lol... We still laugh about it,, but believe me, I won't be going on any more tourist sight seeing train rides.... I'm highly suspicious of them now... It's feeling pretty good about the ride at the beginning, going around a corner and actually seeing the trestle waaaaaaayyyyy up there and knowing I'm going to be hanging on the side of a mountain and disappearing into the clouds.
> So the adventure begins today,, Were leaving for Grand Forks... do some shopping ( snacks sales.. you know) and then up at 3 am and off to the train.
> 
> Thankyou everyone. I will drop a note and let you know how things are going when I can
> ...


Heather,

Have a great trip!!!!!! You may also want to bring a small towel in your bag for clean ups. I for one, will be waiting to hear how your trip went!!!


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## sky12065 (Jun 15, 2009)

Everydaymatters said:


> IMHO (in my humble opinion), the picture of the train going over the bridge is the mildest part.


Why, was there also bungee jumping involved? :blink: ... :lol:


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## George Harris (Jun 15, 2009)

If you think the White Pass and Yukon bridge is scarey, do not even think about riding the Sunset Limited to/from New Orleans. 5 mile long bridge climbing from ground that is slightly below sea level on each side to something like 150 feet above ground to go across the Mississippi River. There are some other really high bridges that you could be going over on other passenger routes, the Hell Gate bridge going out of New York toward Boston is no little thing, either, but most are traversed considerably faster than Huey Long's bridge out of New Orleans.


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## Grandma B (Jun 15, 2009)

Heather, two years ago, my husband and I went on our first long distance Amtrak ride (24+ hours one way). At that time, we reserved a bedroom. Not knowing what to expect, I joined this forum. I asked some dumb questions, but with the answers I got, the members made me feel at ease. Every little noise I heard while we were traveling down the tracks, I freaked out.....my husband was fine. The longer we were on the train, I adapted to the different sounds/noises. In July, we'll be traveling to the same prior destination, but this trip, we have reserved a roomette. Sit back and watch the world go by and leave the driving/railing to the engineer. I'm sure you'll be just fine. Enjoy your trip!


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## Trainmans daughter (Jun 15, 2009)

Sky12065, that is so funny! When I saw the picture of the train on the bridge, the first thing I thought was, "What a great place for base jumping!" I've bungee jumped out of a hot air balloon a couple of times and that was quite a rush!


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## sky12065 (Jun 15, 2009)

Trainmans daughter said:


> Sky12065, that is so funny! When I saw the picture of the train on the bridge, the first thing I thought was, "What a great place for base jumping!" I've bungee jumped out of a hot air balloon a couple of times and that was quite a rush!


Thanks for appreciating my humor. Not everybody does. Some used to tell me that I have a dry sense of humor, but I've since found a solution to that... I started drinking! 

As for riding the rail, the higher we are, the better. We'll be starting our next trip next week and will be traveling to LA, up to Portland then back home to the Alb-Renns station. More than half of the trip will be on rail I've haven't been on before and I'm hoping I reach new heights. However, I have to admit that if we start passing people sitting on clouds... playing harps, *I'm-a gonna start* *freaking out*! :unsure: ... :blink: ... :wacko: ... :lol:


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## catblue (Jun 15, 2009)

To me, 49 is old! 

OUCH!!!!!  49 is not "OLD" just "WISE"!


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## the_traveler (Jun 15, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> the higher we are, the better. ... I'm hoping I reach new heights. However, I have to admit that if we start passing people sitting on clouds... playing harps, *I'm-a gonna start* *freaking out*! :unsure: ... :blink: ... :wacko: ... :lol:


On my next train trip, I'll be reaching heights of 30,000 feet! :lol:

You know it's bad when you have to *FLY*  cross country one way just to take a train back!  (Luckily, there is no cure! :lol: )


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## D T Nelson (Jun 15, 2009)

I rode the White Pass & Yukon 38 years ago, when it still went all the way to Whitehorse, Yukon Territory. I rode it from Whitehorse down to Skagway, and it was very exciting, much more exciting than that bridge photo. As I recall, much of the time the train was descending a very, very steep grade, clinging to the side of a canyon; on curves, when I could see the cars ahead, the brakes were glowing red. Which was not comforting.


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## sky12065 (Jun 15, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > the higher we are, the better. ... I'm hoping I reach new heights. However, I have to admit that if we start passing people sitting on clouds... playing harps, *I'm-a gonna start* *freaking out*! :unsure: ... :blink: ... :wacko: ... :lol:
> ...


What? You fly? Like in an airplane? I don't believe it! I guess you can call me a "Doubting Thomas the Train", but I'm not buying it... not THE TRAVELER!!!"


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## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > sky12065 said:
> ...


You probably had a heart attack!  So, to get your heart re-started, I'll tell you my plan! h34r: (You *KNOW* I always have a plan! :lol: )

Yes - I'm flying out west!  But I'm flying on Continental Airlines! And CO mileage transfers to AGR at 1:1 - so along with my other CO mileage, I will transfer them to AGR. So my flying will give me *2,593 AGR points* to use for my next next next next next next next trip! 

You didn't actually think I'd give up earning AGR points, did you? :huh:


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## PRR 60 (Jun 16, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> ...Yes - I'm flying out west!  But I'm flying on Continental Airlines! And CO mileage transfers to AGR at 1:1 - so along with my other CO mileage, I will transfer them to AGR. So my flying will give me *2,593 AGR points* to use for my next trip!


The funny thing is that you will earn more AGR points for less money flying out west than you would by taking Amtrak. To earn 2600 AGR points on Amtrak, your fare would have to be $1300 one way. I'm willing to bet you're paying a whole lot less then $1300 on CO.


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## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> The funny thing is that you will earn more AGR points for less money flying out west than you would by taking Amtrak. To earn 2600 AGR points on Amtrak, your fare would have to be $1300 one way. I'm willing to bet you're paying a whole lot less then $1300 on CO.


You're right! I found a great one-way fare of ...

......

$112 plus taxes - I think it came to $135! 

And besides that, my traveling companion also got the fare! Plus he may be flying back (for the same fare one way)! Plus he signed up for the CO credit card - with a 25K signup bonus! So he will have over 30K total! 

And since he doesn't fly that much, he agreed to transfer those miles to his AGR account. But since he doesn't travel by train all that much, he may let me use them! So, I may have 30K more essentially! 

You *KNOW* I'm always thinking of ways to get more points!  (Of course so I can use the least amount of points for the longest distance! :lol: )


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## lrdc9_metroplitan_sub (Jun 16, 2009)

I suggest a cheap pillow, some kind of blanket, if you can fit it (we brought a full sized bed blanket    ).

Also a deck of cards, books, whatever, for entertainment.

 

Me and my 60~ yr. old dad did a r/t 4 day (o/w) cross country trip and slept quite well. I found the first night both ways there were adjustment issues, but after that I could sleep restfully through the night    . Just bring a BIG snck box, the train food is expensive and pretty crappy.

 

HAVE FUN !!!!

 

Regards, Logan


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## adkkev (Jun 16, 2009)

What the picture of the WPYRR doesn't show is the separate coach and flatbed car for the Chilkoot Pass hikers ... we were in a completely separate car from the "regular" passengers, probably because the majority of us stunk pretty badly after 4 or 5 days on the trail! Fortunately the RR folks didn't make us put our backpacks in the flatbed car ... we were able to take them with us onto the coach car.

But it was a fun ride back to Skagway down through the pass!

It was pretty funny to watch the faces of the tourists at the Skagway station as we got off our coach car ... 30+ smelly scrungy looking hikers toting large backpacks ... it was as if we were visitors from another planet.


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 16, 2009)

adkkev said:


> What the picture of the WPYRR doesn't show is the separate coach and flatbed car for the Chilkoot Pass hikers ... we were in a completely separate car from the "regular" passengers, probably because the majority of us stunk pretty badly after 4 or 5 days on the trail! Fortunately the RR folks didn't make us put our backpacks in the flatbed car ... we were able to take them with us onto the coach car.
> But it was a fun ride back to Skagway down through the pass!
> 
> It was pretty funny to watch the faces of the tourists at the Skagway station as we got off our coach car ... 30+ smelly scrungy looking hikers toting large backpacks ... it was as if we were visitors from another planet.


Now that would be an adventure! Imagine doing that trip several times hauling up 2000 lbs as per required by the government!


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## catblue (Jun 16, 2009)

D T Nelson said:


> darien-l said:
> 
> 
> > I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.
> ...


I totally agree this is WRONG!! Even if the attendant says you "can" Amtrak says you "can not". So yes, the attendant would not be doing their job and should get in trouble for allowing it if they knew about it. Even worse if they took money to look the other way. As I said on the other topic about this subject, as a paying sleeper customer I would be upset to know this happen for many reasons. Theft being at the top of my list. Sanitation is another issue. Morality of right and wrong is key.
The comment""I don't feel too bad about doing this, because the showers in the sleepers tend to go unused anyway."" Is like saying while I am gone on vacation and no one is home that you can just used my shower because it is going unused anyway.

It amazes me that people think if they don't get caught doing something wrong that it is OK to do it. I venture to say every person in a prison somewhere wishes they had not got caught too.


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## sky12065 (Jun 16, 2009)

catblue said:


> D T Nelson said:
> 
> 
> > darien-l said:
> ...


I too agree that it is wrong. On a small scale it's the same mentality that makes one think that not only is it ok to illegally cross the sovern borders of another country for personal gain, but to also take advantage of services, at the expense of others, when they are not entitled to them.


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## ruudkeulers (Jun 17, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> catblue said:
> 
> 
> > D T Nelson said:
> ...



Maybe I'm too liberal (or too Dutch) in these kind of things, but I really couldn't care less. Not when I'm in a sleeper at

least.

Ruud


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## Everydaymatters (Jun 17, 2009)

darien-l said:


> I'm probably going to get some flak for posting this, but I have a 100% success rate for sneaking into showers in the sleepers as a coach passenger. The dining car staff, who act as guardians of the sleeper section, don't remember every single sleeper passenger, of course, especially those that just got on. The trick is to confidently and purposefully walk through the dining car, don't make eye contact, and walk directly into the sleeper car. Once there, you may run into the sleeper car attendant, if you're really unlucky, but again, chances are he won't stop you. Worse case scenario, you may have to tip him $10 for the privilege of using the shower.
> I don't feel too bad about doing this, because the showers in the sleepers tend to go unused anyway.


Where I come from, people who do these kinds of things are called thieves.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 17, 2009)

From a practical standpoint, a rail car has only a finite capacity for water storage. Showers use lots of water, even the water-stingy showers on Amtrak. The water storage capacity of the sleeping cars was set based on the anticipated use by the occupants of that car. If a parade of coach passengers started sneaking into the sleepers to steal showers, it is possible that the sleeping cars would run out of water prior to the next servicing stop. Then, no showers for anyone.

Coach passengers using the sleeper showers are not only helping themselves to a service they did not pay for, they are possibly denying that service to those who did. If a shower is critical to one's well being, then ante-up for a sleeper.


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## sky12065 (Jun 17, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> From a practical standpoint, a rail car has only a finite capacity for water storage. Showers use lots of water, even the water-stingy showers on Amtrak. The water storage capacity of the sleeping cars was set based on the anticipated use by the occupants of that car. If a parade of coach passengers started sneaking into the sleepers to steal showers, it is possible that the sleeping cars would run out of water prior to the next servicing stop. Then, no showers for anyone.
> Coach passengers using the sleeper showers are not only helping themselves to a service they did not pay for, they are possibly denying that service to those who did. If a shower is critical to one's well being, then ante-up for a sleeper.


Very good point!


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## sunchaser (Jun 17, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> From a practical standpoint, a rail car has only a finite capacity for water storage. Showers use lots of water, even the water-stingy showers on Amtrak. The water storage capacity of the sleeping cars was set based on the anticipated use by the occupants of that car. If a parade of coach passengers started sneaking into the sleepers to steal showers, it is possible that the sleeping cars would run out of water prior to the next servicing stop. Then, no showers for anyone.
> Coach passengers using the sleeper showers are not only helping themselves to a service they did not pay for, they are possibly denying that service to those who did. If a shower is critical to one's well being, then ante-up for a sleeper.



Doesn't the water tanks for each sleeper car provide water for showers & the sinks, but technically potable (drinkable) as well? Aren't the toilets tied into the same water tanks?

The showers are there not just for sleeper passengers, but in the transdorm it's used for the employees! I would prefer that they would be able to keep clean during the trip.

And also you need some water for cleaning up those bathrooms, too.

When you purchase a sleeper, having a shower is a selling point. Besides having a bed & privacy, the shower was another

reason for us to get bedrooms. And yes, pay extra for the trip. Realizing not everyone can or is willing to pay more for the 'extras', does not excuse helping yourself to those extras. Most people wouldn't go to a concert, pay $30 & then expect to sit in the $300 seats without paying more, or go to a hotel with a restaurant, eat, then try to sneak into one of the rooms for a nap or shower.


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

Doesn't this bring up the whole security issue? If Amtrak was intending to allow just anyone to go through the sleeper cars then they would have to provide locks and keys like hotels do.

The person posting here probably would not steal from peoples luggage or things left in the sleepers while they were out of the sleeper car but someone else might if given free entry to the sleepers.

Just a bad idea all around in my opinion.


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## the_traveler (Jun 17, 2009)

ruudkeulers said:


> Maybe I'm too liberal (or too Dutch) in these kind of things, but I really couldn't care less. Not when I'm in a sleeper atleast.


Would you feel the same way if you were in your sleeper, went to take a shower and saw 10 coach passengers in line to use the shower in your car - and you had a 1-2 hour wait? :huh: But instead of waiting, you go back to your room. Then 2 hours later, you go back to the shower - and find 5 new coach passengers in line? :huh:

An hour later, you finally get into the shower - and find all the towels are used and that there is no water left and the next station stop is 2 hours away!

Do you still care less? :huh:


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## sunchaser (Jun 17, 2009)

catblue said:


> Doesn't this bring up the whole security issue? If Amtrak was intending to allow just anyone to go through the sleeper cars then they would have to provide locks and keys like hotels do.The person posting here probably would not steal from peoples luggage or things left in the sleepers while they were out of the sleeper car but someone else might if given free entry to the sleepers.
> 
> Just a bad idea all around in my opinion.



Good point. There are locks on the roomettes/bedrooms, but they are not like hotel rooms. They lock from the inside only. No keys. Does anyone know if there was ever keyed locks on the sleeper doors? I realize that it is rare that something is stolen from them, but still I think it would be a good idea. It would also prevent people from trying to sneak in and use a bedroom/roomette without paying for it. They could also have the keys work for the bathroom or shower, mostly the shower. i have no problem with someone using the bathroom that is from coach in an emergency, but they should not be using the shower.


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## the_traveler (Jun 17, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Does anyone know if there was ever keyed locks on the sleeper doors?


The only rooms that have locks from the outside are the crew's rooms in the trans-dorm. Part of the reason is in an emergency, crew could not get in. True, in a hotel they could knock down the door and later repair that one door. But I don't know many hotels that would close the whole building (all 300-400 rooms) just to fix that one door. Amtrak would have to bad order that car to fix it.

Another reason is that the sleeper attendant could not get in to set the room - because you got off and "forgot" to leave it unlocked!


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know if there was ever keyed locks on the sleeper doors?
> ...


A simple solution. Master key.

Now, passengers losing keys would be a bigger issue.


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## sunchaser (Jun 17, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > sunchaser said:
> ...


Of course the attendant would need a master key. Hotels use them! I would expect that the unused rooms should be locked. They can unlock them prior to someone boarding for that room. That would make perfect sense. I actually like the idea of the attendant unlocking it for you or handing you the key. Or picking it up w/your ticket. It may not even be neccesary to have the rooms keyed differently. But the keys could be specific for that car. Conductor or attendant could have the extras stored somewhere.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 17, 2009)

Lots of good ideas in these postings,however probably not gonna happen due to cost, NIH(not invented here!),

Amtrak desk jockeys, maybe even union rules?In the old days according to the movies(I never rode a sleeper

as a kid, Railroad passes were for day coach(!lol)the conductor and or attendants locked the bathrooms in

the stations since they dumped on the tracks, also the bedrooms locked but not the sections iIIRC?

Perhaps some old timers have this answer!I suggest that the SCAs be more available @ all times, especially

in stations, during meals and special times for sleeping car pax, thats really what they are paid for to ensure

a safe,comfortable and secure jourmey!!!!!


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

It could just be the credit card type lock on the entry door to the sleeper car. There would not even have to be locks on each roomette and bedroom, just the door into the car. That way it would not affect the attendants trying to do their job. Only way "in" to the sleeper car is to use the card. Going "out" would not be a factor just open the door.

Don't even think there would be much grumble about a slight rise in price of sleepers to offset the cost of installing them.

And yes, I realize a good thief can still find a way to open that lock but it might deter them long enough to be seen.


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## the_traveler (Jun 17, 2009)

catblue said:


> It could just be the credit card type lock on the entry door to the sleeper car. There would not even have to be locks on each roomette and bedroom, just the door into the car. That way it would not affect the attendants trying to do their job. Only way "in" to the sleeper car is to use the card.


But what if you had a room on the 3rd sleeper? Would you need to carry 3 keys? :huh: And what if they substitute or add another sleeper? :huh:

And what about "trains" 808 and 807 (1 coach added between CHI and MSP only). This coach is put on the back of the EB - behind the PDX sleeper! So those passengers *MUST* go through the PDX sleeper in order to get to the rest of the train (including the Diner and Sightseer)! [No, I don't care for it either!] Do we leave them without any food for the entire day? :huh: (They wouldn't have a key to the sleeper!)


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## sunchaser (Jun 17, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> catblue said:
> 
> 
> > It could just be the credit card type lock on the entry door to the sleeper car. There would not even have to be locks on each roomette and bedroom, just the door into the car. That way it would not affect the attendants trying to do their job. Only way "in" to the sleeper car is to use the card.
> ...


The reason I said keys not card locks is because it would be cheaper & just as efficient. You wouldn't have to worry about power issues. And, rather than a key to the sleeper car door, it would be to the rooms/shower. If someone needs access to pass through as in 808 & 807, then it wouldn't be a problem for those in coach getting to the diner. If they substitute the sleeper, then the keys could be in that sleeper. Maybe in roomette #1? This whole thing could be avoided if some would leave other people's belongings alone, & not help themself to stuff/or the showers. I have heard a few (not many) stories of attempted theft, (usually in coach) taking snacks from sleepers, & now accessing the showers. Locks help keep some honest. But as mentioned elsewhere, if someone want to steal, they will try to find a way.


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> catblue said:
> 
> 
> > It could just be the credit card type lock on the entry door to the sleeper car. There would not even have to be locks on each roomette and bedroom, just the door into the car. That way it would not affect the attendants trying to do their job. Only way "in" to the sleeper car is to use the card.
> ...


I have not taken my first trip yet and have a lot to learn. So I had not even thought about other sleeper car people having to go through my sleeper to get to the dining room. But if it was one lock that worked for all sleepers then it could work. Or as sunchaser said just locking the rooms and the showers and bathrooms would also work. And yes it is a shame we even have to have this conversation isn't it. Kind of like in the old days you did not have to lock you doors at home either but these days nothing is safe for long.


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## AlanB (Jun 17, 2009)

The biggest problem with keys, beyond the expense, is that people forget them when they leave their rooms, loose them, and forget to turn them in when they leave.


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## Trainmans daughter (Jun 17, 2009)

My thoughts exactly, CatBlue. (By the way, your cat is beautiful!) My granddaughter encouraged me to buy the "As seen on TV Buxton over-the-shoulder Organizer" for our trip next month. She rattled off the entire commercial for me and I was sold. Who can resist a beautiful little 7 year old read-headed girl? I'll keep everything of value right with me. And besides, I'll never miss another call!


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## Trainmans daughter (Jun 17, 2009)

Oops! That should say "red-headed". (Although she does read quite well for her age!)


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

Trainmans daughter said:


> My thoughts exactly, CatBlue. (By the way, your cat is beautiful!) My granddaughter encouraged me to buy the "As seen on TV Buxton over-the-shoulder Organizer" for our trip next month. She rattled off the entire commercial for me and I was sold. Who can resist a beautiful little 7 year old read-headed girl? I'll keep everything of value right with me. And besides, I'll never miss another call!


Thank you but sadly she crossed "The Rainbow Bridge" last summer at age 17. OK looks like locks won't work so what is the answer? I agree that leaving anything of value at home and traveling light and small seem to be the best option at this time for me too.


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## PetalumaLoco (Jun 17, 2009)

catblue said:


> Thank you but sadly she crossed "The Rainbow Bridge" last summer at age 17.


Looks exactly like our cat Turbo. I think he's about 13 now.


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## AlanB (Jun 17, 2009)

catblue said:


> OK looks like locks won't work so what is the answer? I agree that leaving anything of value at home and traveling light and small seem to be the best option at this time for me too.


I bring plenty of things of value with me, including my laptop. The key is to not leave things out in plain site when you're not in your room and to close the door and curtain. Granted this only works if one is in a sleeper, coach is a horse of a different color.


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

I just meant that if I have nothing of value I have no need to worry. Keeping things small will just be for convenience.


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## catblue (Jun 17, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> catblue said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you but sadly she crossed "The Rainbow Bridge" last summer at age 17.
> ...


Cats live long lives now days with good care. The cat I had before this one lived to be 19.


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## PetalumaLoco (Jun 17, 2009)

catblue said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > catblue said:
> ...


We thought we were going to lose Turbo to kitty diabetes last year, but a change of diet made him a healthy cat again.

_-sorry everyone for the thread hijack-_


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## GoldenSpike (Jun 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> The biggest problem with keys, beyond the expense, is that people forget them when they leave their rooms, loose them, and forget to turn them in when they leave.


An easy solution to the issue of coach pax poaching in sleeper areas might be a posted sign along with periodic announcements as they do with smoking: "Coach passengers using sleeper facilties will be removed from the train." End of discussion of keys and locks, etc..


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## amtrakwolverine (Jun 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> catblue said:
> 
> 
> > OK looks like locks won't work so what is the answer? I agree that leaving anything of value at home and traveling light and small seem to be the best option at this time for me too.
> ...


when i take the train in oct im bringing 2 laptop cable locks with me. one will be used in the hotel (6ft) the other will be used to lock the laptop to the tray table or the wire net mesh on the back of the seat so they can't wander off with it so easily. when i leave to either go to the lounge or diner i will lock it in my luggage and lock the luggage to the luggage rack net.


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## AlanB (Jun 18, 2009)

GoldenSpike said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The biggest problem with keys, beyond the expense, is that people forget them when they leave their rooms, loose them, and forget to turn them in when they leave.
> ...


Sadly there are many who don't pay attention to announcements or bother to read signs. As evidenced by those who sit in the quiet car and talk away, and those who get put off the train for smoking in the rest room.


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## EB_OBS (Jun 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> GoldenSpike said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I agree. More announcements usually isn't the answer to solving any on-board problems. Too many announcements tends to annoy some passengers and others simple tune them out. I know I for one don't like being constantly quoted the rules no matter where I'm at.


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## sky12065 (Jun 18, 2009)

I've made several trips in an accessable room, with is just feet away from the shower, and I personally don't see intrusions from coach a problem simply because I have never seen a line waiting for the shower; this is not to say it doesn't happen. So presuming that the problem doesn't occur as often as we may think it does, developing a key system seems IMHO an unnecessary expense and more trouble than it's worth.

However, if on the other hand if it is more of a problem than I preceve, perhaps there is a simpler way of dealing with it than has yet been discussed here. For instance, install a shock proof numeric keypad in the dressing portion of the shower where a 3 digit code needs to be entered to activate the shower for say a 10 minute period. If more time is needed the code could be entered again. The SA could provide the code to the passengers of the sleeper and the code can be changed by the SA after every run or two or whenever. This would leave any sneeky pete :unsure: who tried to use the shower high and dry!

In the mean time during my trip that starts next week, I'll yell at anyone who goes to use the shower... "HEY... IF YOU'RE NOT FROM THIS SLEEP, GET THE H*** OUT OF HERE!" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sunchaser (Jun 18, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> I've made several trips in an accessable room, with is just feet away from the shower, and I personally don't see intrusions from coach a problem simply because I have never seen a line waiting for the shower; this is not to say it doesn't happen. So presuming that the problem doesn't occur as often as we may think it does, developing a key system seems IMHO an unnecessary expense and more trouble than it's worth.
> However, if on the other hand if it is more of a problem than I preceve, perhaps there is a simpler way of dealing with it than has yet been discussed here. For instance, install a shock proof numeric keypad in the dressing portion of the shower where a 3 digit code needs to be entered to activate the shower for say a 10 minute period. If more time is needed the code could be entered again. The SA could provide the code to the passengers of the sleeper and the code can be changed by the SA after every run or two or whenever. This would leave any sneeky pete :unsure: who tried to use the shower high and dry!
> 
> In the mean time during my trip that starts next week, I'll yell at anyone who goes to use the shower... "HEY... IF YOU'RE NOT FROM THIS SLEEP, GET THE H*** OUT OF HERE!" :lol: :lol: :lol:


I think keys would be better, because you would not have to depend on electricity to operate it. Also should be much cheaper! Or maybe a shower monitor........NOT! We would not even have this discussion if someone mentioned that they attempt and sometimes have succeeded sneaking into an area where they don't belong. I would think there are more out there that do it too, just unwilling to admit it. 

Maybe there's a career in it for you!  Now if I hear yelling eminating from just outside the accesible room on the CS, I'll know you're onboard!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


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## catblue (Jun 18, 2009)

quote-sorry everyone for the thread hijack-unquote

Are not most threads hijacked sooner or later??  We see something on a post it makes us think of something unrelated to the original post but possible related to some part of a post and we run with it. 

Guilty as charged!


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## sunchaser (Jun 18, 2009)

catblue said:


> quote-sorry everyone for the thread hijack-unquoteAre not most threads hijacked sooner or later??  We see something on a post it makes us think of something unrelated to the original post but possible related to some part of a post and we run with it.
> 
> Guilty as charged!


I may fit in that remark....... :lol:

However, I think we're still talking about trains!!!

Almost jumped in w/ the cat stuff though........   meow!


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## AlanB (Jun 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> I think keys would be better, because you would not have to depend on electricity to operate it. Also should be much cheaper! Or maybe a shower monitor........NOT! We would not even have this discussion if someone mentioned that they attempt and sometimes have succeeded sneaking into an area where they don't belong. I would think there are more out there that do it too, just unwilling to admit it.  Maybe there's a career in it for you!  Now if I hear yelling eminating from just outside the accesible room on the CS, I'll know you're onboard!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


You are correct that one would need electricity to operate such a number touch pad to enter the code. However, consider the fact that if there is no electricity, you won't be taking a shower anyhow. If there is no power, then there is no water since the pump to move the water won't be working. There would also be no hot water either, without power.

So no one would be taking a shower regardless of whether they know the code or not.


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## oldtimer (Jun 18, 2009)

AlanB

You're right about the hot water but the water system on a Superliner is air powered, thus you can take a cold shower in a completely dark windowless room and change your clothes there. Sure sounds like fun to me!

By the way I'm also AlanB :lol: :lol: :lol:

AlanB II


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## printman2000 (Jun 18, 2009)

oldtimer2 said:


> AlanBYou're right about the hot water but the water system on a Superliner is air powered, thus you can take a cold shower in a completely dark windowless room and change your clothes there. Sure sounds like fun to me!
> 
> By the way I'm also AlanB :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> AlanB II


I would think there would be an emergency light in the shower room (and all restrooms) that ran off the batteries. I would hate to be in there with no lights.


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## sunchaser (Jun 18, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> oldtimer2 said:
> 
> 
> > AlanBYou're right about the hot water but the water system on a Superliner is air powered, thus you can take a cold shower in a completely dark windowless room and change your clothes there. Sure sounds like fun to me!
> ...


Now, there are some people that might enjoy a cold, dark shower!!! But not me! :lol: :lol: Espescially the cold part. Light candles for the dark part.   Or use flashlight.


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## the_traveler (Jun 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > oldtimer2 said:
> ...


Dark showers I don't mind. And I've been told many times to "Go take a cold shower!"  :lol:


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## sunchaser (Jun 18, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > printman2000 said:
> ...



Well then again if the ac isn't working & it's hot on the train, then a cold shower would feel good.. Does Amtrak use 'tankless' hot water heaters?


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## transit54 (Jun 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Well then again if the ac isn't working & it's hot on the train, then a cold shower would feel good.. Does Amtrak use 'tankless' hot water heaters?


I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt it. Electric tankless hot water heaters aren't very common, though I've seen them. Since they take a second to get going, also, I don't think they'd be suited best for a train where there's a limited supply of water. But I could be wrong.


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