# The Canadian is resuming service to Toronto



## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

VIA has announced the Canadian will be extended back to Toronto from Winnipeg. There will be one train a week each way. The first through train from Vancouver to Toronto will be on May 17.....and the first departure from Toronto to Vancouver on May 23.

VIA RAIL ANNOUNCES RESUMPTION OF THE TORONTO–WINNIPEG PORTION OF THE CANADIAN | VIA Rail

The press release says 'essential transportation' so I assume (and as it should be right now!!)....there will still be no access to the Dome Cars and breakfast and dinner in the Diner by reservation only.......and lunch delivered to your accommodations.


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## Exvalley (Apr 13, 2021)

Great news! 

Now I am hoping for the Ocean to get some good news too!


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## PaTrainFan (Apr 13, 2021)

A step in the right direction but yet it will remain a much diminished experience if it is "essential transportation." And for goodness sakes, please hold hope for additional frequencies!


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## Palmland (Apr 13, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> The press release says 'essential transportation' so I assume (and as it should be right now!!)....there will still be no access to the Dome Cars and breakfast and dinner in the Diner by reservation only.......and lunch delivered to your accommodations.


This is good news. But, why is it ok to sit for 5 hours 6 across in a transcon flight but not ok for a couple hours in the dome, especially if the passengers have been vaccinated?


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## jiml (Apr 13, 2021)

Palmland said:


> This is good news. But, why is it ok to sit for 5 hours 6 across in a transcon flight but not ok for a couple hours in the dome, especially if the passengers have been vaccinated?


The bigger question, asked when the service resumed between Winnipeg and Vancouver a few months ago, is why even tow the unused cars?


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

jiml said:


> The bigger question, asked when the service resumed between Winnipeg and Vancouver a few months ago, is why even tow the unused cars?



A Prestige Park provides the only 'accessible' sleeper accommodations on the train so it has to be in the consist. (the bedroom is sold at regular sleeper rates...not Prestige) ......and from what I've read in other forums....the Skyline provides the coach meals service. Could the coach meals have been provided by the regular diner? Don't know but the Skyline is the way VIA is doing it.


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

Palmland said:


> This is good news. But, why is it ok to sit for 5 hours 6 across in a transcon flight but not ok for a couple hours in the dome, especially if the passengers have been vaccinated?



It seem the Canadian is being operated for essential travel for those that just have no other option. With several provinces in full lock-down...this is not the time to be travelling and enjoying the view from the Dome. I'm sure a full service Canadian will return when its safe.


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## jiml (Apr 13, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> A Prestige Park provides the only 'accessible' sleeper accommodations on the train so it has to be in the consist. (the bedroom is sold at regular sleeper rates...not Prestige) ......and from what I've read in other forums....the Skyline provides the coach meals service. Could the coach meals have been provided by the regular diner? Don't know but the Skyline is the way VIA is doing it.


My understanding was that coach meal service is from a trolley and that no space is being sold in the Park car. The former is directly from the VIA website:








VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver train trip


Toronto-Vancouver train –The Canadian




www.viarail.ca


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## jiml (Apr 13, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> It seem the Canadian is being operated for essential travel for those that just have no other option.


It's odd that this wasn't a concern for the last several months and yet with cases in Ontario at an all-time high it no longer is. I'm happy to see the service restored, but suggest there is way more to this development than meets the eye.


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

jiml said:


> My understanding was that coach meal service is from a trolley and that no space is being sold in the Park car.



Discussion in several of the Can Pass Rail Forums is that the trolley meal service is out of the Skyline and the Park has the only accessible sleeper accommodation (that has to be provided) on the train. Perhaps a call to VIA will confirm.


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

jiml said:


> VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver train trip
> 
> 
> Toronto-Vancouver train –The Canadian
> ...



_"Unfortunately, the Park car and Skyline car (lounge/dome cars) will not be accessible to any passengers"_........nothing about the accessible bedroom not being available.


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## jiml (Apr 13, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> _"Unfortunately, the Park car and Skyline car (lounge/dome cars) will not be accessible to any passengers"_........nothing about the accessible bedroom not being available.


By use of the word "former" I was referring to meal service on the same page. _Note the term "cart service"._ I never cited an accessible bedroom not being available, however if the Park car is "not accessible to any passengers", presumably that would include the disabled. You're kind of defeating your own argument...


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## me_little_me (Apr 13, 2021)

Even though it's only once a week, the freights will insure it runs 48 hours late.


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 13, 2021)

jiml said:


> You're kind of defeating your own argument...



???

Yes....the coach meal 'cart service' or trolley is supplied from the Skyline......

_"Unfortunately, the Park car and Skyline car (lounge/dome cars) will not be accessible to any passengers"_........nothing about the accessible bedroom not being available. 

Again.....nothing there about the 'accessible' (handicapped) bedroom not being available.....just the Park and Skyline "lounge/dome cars" will not be available to any passengers. As you are aware the Park has more than a lounge and dome!


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 13, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> VIA has announced the Canadian will be extended back to Toronto from Winnipeg. There will be one train a week each way. The first through train from Vancouver to Toronto will be on May 17.....and the first departure from Toronto to Vancouver on May 23.
> 
> VIA RAIL ANNOUNCES RESUMPTION OF THE TORONTO–WINNIPEG PORTION OF THE CANADIAN | VIA Rail
> 
> ...


As the saying goes, " There's Good News, and there's Bad News."

The Good News is the Train is going to resume the entire route, even if only once a week.

The Bad News is, that with the Border Closed, only Canadians can ride this Train and that it would be almost like being in Jail if you're stuck in your Room most of the day and cant Walk the Train, or visit in the Domes and the Park Car!

More Bad News is the Fares will continue to be High, the Ridership will be Low, and it will give the Suits in Ottawa,Toronto and Montreal ammo to cut the Train cause it loses too much money!

I would think the Ocean, if it ever resumes, will face the same set of circumstances!


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## Urban Sky (Apr 14, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Discussion in several of the Can Pass Rail Forums is that the trolley meal service is out of the Skyline and the Park has the only accessible sleeper accommodation (that has to be provided) on the train.


Correct, both cars have essential functions, even as dome and lounge areas remain closed to passengers...




Bob Dylan said:


> More Bad News is the Fares will continue to be High, the Ridership will be Low, and it will give the Suits in Ottawa,Toronto and Montreal ammo to cut the Train cause it loses too much money!
> 
> I would think the Ocean, if it ever resumes, will face the same set of circumstances!


Yawn, if VIA and the feds were just waiting for an excuse to cancel the Canadian, they would have done so about 10 years ago, when its financials were in a similarly rough shape where Amtrak’s long-distance trains are now. Instead, they focused on international tourism and invested in Prestige Class, which helped the Canadian to now recover approximately 90% of its direct (i.e. avoidable) costs, compared to 50% for Amtrak’s long-distance services...

The Ocean is of course an entirely different case, but with the Quebec government finally investing the amounts needed to restore the infrastructure maintenance levels needed to restore passenger service to Gaspé, I believe it’s unthinkable that the feds will kill the Ocean at this point (as the Chaleur would be prohibitively expensive to operate without the ability to piggypack on the Ocean).

Just my two cents as someone who might be closer to these things than most people here, but please feel free to continue believing whatever you want...


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 14, 2021)

Urban Sky said:


> Correct, both cars have essential functions, even as dome and lounge areas remain closed to passengers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update from the Great White North! I certainly hope you are right and I'm wrong!


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## Cal (Apr 14, 2021)

Urban Sky said:


> Yawn, if VIA and the feds were just waiting for an excuse to cancel the Canadian, they would have done so about 10 years ago, when its financials were in a similarly rough shape where Amtrak’s long-distance trains are now. Instead, they focused on international tourism and invested in Prestige Class, which helped the Canadian to now recover approximately 90% of its direct (i.e. avoidable) costs, compared to 50% for Amtrak’s long-distance services...


Amtrak, take notes now!


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## caravanman (Apr 14, 2021)

There has been a lot on AU recently about the very high prices of roomettes, etc.
For fun, I just did a trial booking on the Canadian, and their bedroom for one, from Toronto to Vancouver is showing at $CAD 1500, about $1200 USD. I don't know which on board services are operating, but it "includes meals".


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 14, 2021)

caravanman said:


> There has been a lot on AU recently about the very high prices of roomettes, etc.
> For fun, I just did a trial booking on the Canadian, and their bedroom for one, from Toronto to Vancouver is showing at $CAD 1500, about $1200 USD. I don't know which on board services are operating, but it "includes meals".


That's pretty pricey for a once a week, stay in your Room Train that's supposed to be a "Dream Trip", but basically will be like a Jail sentence with good food and drink and nice scenery out one side of the Train.

I'll pass till things return to normal( even if I could get to Canada to ride it, which I cant!)

Disclaimer: I've ridden the Csnadian several times and would do it again in a New York Minute, but only @ " Off Season" Prices, once things return to " Normal")


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## jis (Apr 14, 2021)

For now I thought the Canadian was being operated just for essential service, and not so much for dream trip. I suspect it is more for serving those zillion little flag stops rather than someone hell bent on traveling all the way across the continent in the middle of a pandemic.


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## caravanman (Apr 14, 2021)

I did not read the fine print, the system seemed to be allowing me to proceed with a booking, but who knows. The only point I was trying to make was it is an oportunity to compare VIA and Amtrak's prices. (Amtrak Chi to Sea in roomette for same dates is $USD 1,047)


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## jiml (Apr 14, 2021)

jis said:


> For now I thought the Canadian was being operated just for essential service, and not so much for dream trip. I suspect it is more for serving those zillion little flag stops rather than someone hell bent on traveling all the way across the continent in the middle of a pandemic.


That's the suggestion, but the timing is odd. If essential now, it was essential for the last several months when restrictions were less severe. Now Ontario is under a "stay-at-home" order and we can't use it. Unless the order is lifted, technically it will have to leave Toronto empty of anyone but essential travelers. (The order expires on the 6th, but is expected to be extended by 28 days.)


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## jiml (Apr 14, 2021)

And just to make this resumption less attractive:



Trudeau says he supports restricting interprovincial travel when necessary to stem spread of COVID-19



This is in response to BC considering closing its border.


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## jis (Apr 14, 2021)

A state can unilaterally close its border in Canada?


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## jiml (Apr 14, 2021)

jis said:


> A state can unilaterally close its border in Canada?


Yes, the Maritime provinces have been doing it throughout the pandemic - sometimes even to each other, and both Quebec and Manitoba have had sporadic closures. Sometimes the restrictions are simply extended quarantines, but there have been cases of people being turned away at provincial borders. The constitutionality of it has been debated many times and will likely be the subject of court challenges long after Covid19 is in the rear-view mirror.









N.S. reinstates border restrictions for New Brunswickers; six new COVID-19 cases Tuesday


Nova Scotia is reversing its decision to allow New Brunswickers to enter the province without the requirement to self-isolate for 14-days.



atlantic.ctvnews.ca


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## jiml (Apr 16, 2021)

Further to the above, Ontario has just this moment closed its borders with Quebec and Manitoba. Checkpoints are being set up and only essential travellers will be allowed to pass. There doesn't seem to be much point to the Canadian's route being lengthened as scheduled.


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## jis (Apr 16, 2021)

jiml said:


> Further to the above, Ontario has just this moment closed its borders with Quebec and Manitoba. Checkpoints are being set up and only essential travellers will be allowed to pass. There doesn't seem to be much point to the Canadian's route being lengthened as scheduled.


Must be quite interesting between Ottawa and Hull?


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## jiml (Apr 16, 2021)

jis said:


> Must be quite interesting between Ottawa and Hull?


I can only imagine, although the reverse situation was in effect very early in the pandemic. This time around the penalties are much more severe.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 16, 2021)

jis said:


> Must be quite interesting between Ottawa and Hull?


Yep, lots of Civil Servants live in Hull( Quebec) and commute to Ottawa!( similar to DC Closing its Borders with WA and MD)


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 17, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Yep, lots of Civil Servants live in Hull( Quebec) and commute to Ottawa!( similar to DC Closing its Borders with WA and MD)



Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull) has 5 bridge crossings but other than that.....there's only 2 major 'Interstate' type highway crossings between Ontario and Quebec just west of Montreal...... along with several secondary roads that are mainly west of Montreal and through the Ottawa valley and Temiskaming. There's also 5 railways crossing the border.....2 carry passengers.

The Ontario-Manitoba Border would be easier to enforce: there is but a single two-lane highway (the Trans-Canada Hwy), a single CN track and a single CP track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada.

So for a province the size of Ontario (about 1 1/2 times the size of Texas) with a pop of 14 million....there's really not that many border crossings to enforce considering the US-Canada Border is already closed.


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## jiml (Apr 17, 2021)

There has been no word on how Ontario plans to handle passenger trains, since they are federally regulated. I doubt they have the resources to meet arriving passengers at every stop. There has been a request to the federal government to suspend inter-provincial flights (probably not going to happen) or make them subject to the same rules as arriving international ones (hotel quarantine, etc.). Presumably buses will be stopped with all other highway vehicles. One would think there won't be many people leaving Ontario on any form of transport, since travelling to the airport, train or bus station is not allowed. As traffic diminishes I wonder if frequencies will too.


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## Urban Sky (Apr 17, 2021)

jiml said:


> *There has been no word on how Ontario plans to handle passenger trains, since they are federally regulated*. I doubt they have the resources to meet arriving passengers at every stop. There has been a request to the federal government to suspend inter-provincial flights (probably not going to happen) or make them subject to the same rules as arriving international ones (hotel quarantine, etc.). Presumably buses will be stopped with all other highway vehicles. One would think there won't be many people leaving Ontario on any form of transport, since travelling to the airport, train or bus station is not allowed. As traffic diminishes I wonder if frequencies will too.


If you refer to the actual Order in Council:


> Certain travel into Ontario from Manitoba and Quebec prohibited
> 
> 2. No person shall travel into Ontario from Manitoba or Quebec unless,
> 
> ...





https://files.ontario.ca/solgen_oreg293-21_2021-04-16.pdf


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## jiml (Apr 17, 2021)

Urban Sky said:


> If you refer to the actual Order in Council:
> 
> 
> 
> https://files.ontario.ca/solgen_oreg293-21_2021-04-16.pdf


The language acknowledges Ontario's lack of jurisdiction. I probably should have said "There is no word on Ontario's next move", since they have already asked the Feds to curtail air travel per Premier's speech yesterday. If Ottawa allows the loopholes to continue that's on them.


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## jiml (Apr 17, 2021)

I've heard VIA has just added a warning that passengers travelling to Ontario must meet the new requirements.


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 17, 2021)

Urban Sky said:


> If you refer to the actual Order in Council:
> 
> 
> 
> https://files.ontario.ca/solgen_oreg293-21_2021-04-16.pdf



Yes.....it's now received Royal Assent but doesn't take effect until 12:01am on April 19th. It should have been immediate....and an excuse now for one last party this evening or tomorrow


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## jiml (Apr 22, 2021)

redacted


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## jiml (Apr 22, 2021)

It's bookable again. Must have been website thing earlier this morning.


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