# Texas eagle



## amtrakwolverine (Mar 14, 2008)

Im taking the texas eagle from chicago to LA and wanted some reviews about this train.


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## the_traveler (Mar 15, 2008)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> Im taking the texas eagle from chicago to LA and wanted some reviews about this train.


The TE from SAS to LAX is combined with the Sunset Limited - so expect delays!


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## caravanman (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi,

I have no idea how familiar you are with Amtrak trains in general, are you a seasoned train user, or a first time user?

The Texas Eagle to LA is pretty much two trains, the train starts from Chicago and ends at San Antonio.. Some coaches from this train are then joined to the rear of "The Sunset Limited" to continue on to finish at L.A.

There is a six+ hour delay at San Antonio. This delay may be more, or less, depending on the timekeeping of either train. Amtrak long distance trains often run several hours late.

You probably are aware that there is a more direct route from Chicago to L.A. aboard Southwest Chief?

While I know the sleeping cars are connected onto the new train to L.A, I am not 100% sure about the coach cars.. It may be that coach passengers have to leave the Texas Eagle train at San Antonio, and find new coach seats aboard the Sunset Limited the following morning?

Other than the connection issues, both trains should have all the usual Amtrak facilities aboard.

Ed B)


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## Rafi (Mar 15, 2008)

caravanman said:


> There is a six+ hour delay at San Antonio. This delay may be more, or less, depending on the timekeeping of either train.You probably are aware that there is a more direct route from Chicago to L.A. aboard Southwest Chief?
> 
> While I know the sleeping cars are connected onto the new train to L.A, I am not 100% sure about the coach cars.. It may be that coach passengers have to leave the Texas Eagle train at San Antonio, and find new coach seats aboard the Sunset Limited the following morning?


Just to clarify a little off of what Ed says above, the stop in San Antonio isn't a "delay." That gives the connotation that the train is put behind schedule while they transfer the cars. In actuality, the Eagle simply has a scheduled layover in San Antonio in the wee hours of the morning. Most folks sleep through the layover and don't even realize how long they stopped.

The layover dance itself works this way: the southbound Eagle arrives into San Antonio well before the westbound Sunset Limited, which is the train to LA that the Texas Eagle cars are connected to. When the Eagle arrives, the San Antonio switching crew goes into action and one coach car (yes, the coach car gets to come along too) and one sleeper car are disconnected and arranged such that when the Sunset arrives, it just backs up onto those two cars and departs for California.

Now, remember, while the Chicago-San Antonio Texas Eagle runs daily, the Chicago-San Antonio-Los Angeles cars only run three times a week.

-Rafi


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## daveyb99 (Mar 15, 2008)

I would make sure to book train #421 so you do not have to change trains (#21 to #1) in San Antonio.

Otherwise, the usual AMTRAK service, but you will change onboard crews in San Antonio.

The only unusual event is the Diner. Since AMTRAK insists on taking the diner crew off the train in Austin (7:00pm arrival) rather than just letting them go all the way to SAS (and save the hotel costs), that will mean, if ontime, the time between dinner and lunch will be very short. Eat lunch early if on time, and be prepared for a single seating dinner. I hate that AMTRAK does this, but they have not indicated a change. (The benefit of keeping crew on southbound is that the northbound #422 will have a nice breakfast available rather than a cold tray.

There are some neat stations along the way, so if you like to take photos. Marshal, TX comes to mind. So does Temple, TX. You will be in Dallas and Fort Worth during the daylight, so that is nice. If ontime into Fort Worth, you can take a short walking tour around downtown. But most of the trip STL to MHL is at night, so not much to see.

I just hope they keep the sightseer online. Without, it is cramped in that diner/lounge thing they built


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## had8ley (Mar 15, 2008)

Fort Worth station is the original Texas & Pacific Railway HQ and has been redone in all its original splendor. I'm going next month just to see it and take some pix.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 15, 2008)

Some things people are saying are inaccurate or misleading. The Texas Eagle currently IIRC, runs with one or two P42s, Transleeper, Sleeper, Diner (or CCC featuring diner menu, depending on trainset), Lounge, Coach-bag, Coach. I believe there is another coach added somewhere along the route. In a short time, this consist will change to the following:

1 P42, Transleeper, Sleeper, Diner-Lounge, Coach-bag, Coach.

Meaning the train will NOT run with a sightseer lounge!

The Sunset Limited still has a SSL, I believe.


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Some things people are saying are inaccurate or misleading. The Texas Eagle currently IIRC, runs with one or two P42s, Transleeper, Sleeper, Diner (or CCC featuring diner menu, depending on trainset), Lounge, Coach-bag, Coach. I believe there is another coach added somewhere along the route. In a short time, this consist will change to the following:


A coach is only added enroute to the northbound Eagle at St. Louis and it doesn't happen all year round, only during peak periods. Southbound the coach is taken off in St. Louis.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 15, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Some things people are saying are inaccurate or misleading. The Texas Eagle currently IIRC, runs with one or two P42s, Transleeper, Sleeper, Diner (or CCC featuring diner menu, depending on trainset), Lounge, Coach-bag, Coach. I believe there is another coach added somewhere along the route. In a short time, this consist will change to the following:
> ...


im somewhat a seasoned rider. the train is texas eagle 421. first time taking the eagle. im going to la via the te then taking the swc back to chicago


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## daveyb99 (Mar 15, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Fort Worth station is the original Texas & Pacific Railway HQ and has been redone in all its original splendor. I'm going next month just to see it and take some pix.


Actually, AMTRAK uses the Intermodal Center, just a short walk north (maybe 3 minutes) of the old AMTRAK stop at the Santa Fe depot. The Santa Fe depot has been restored by private concerns and serves as a party renal hall.

The T&P building is only served by the Trinity Rail Express, which also serves the IMC. You can take the TRE back and forth (see TRE schedules) or walk, but the walk will be about 15 minutes. I believe you can still wander the main lobby area, but sometimes the facility is rented out.

From my newest favorite website maps.live.com

T&P [looking west] with TRE in station. The outer two platforms are AMTRAK.

Santa Fe depot [looking north] with the south end of the IMC - and the northbound #22 (engine north) and southbound #21 (engine south) instation.

T&P [looking north] TRE rail platform under white awning

Aerial of entire stations complex

Pan around these pictures to get more views of more AMTRAK trains, including the Heartland Flyer, in station.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 15, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Some things people are saying are inaccurate or misleading.


What specifically. I think everyone has it spot on.


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## had8ley (Mar 15, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Worth station is the original Texas & Pacific Railway HQ and has been redone in all its original splendor. I'm going next month just to see it and take some pix.
> ...


Hey thanks for the clarification. I had received an e-mail from a T&P buff who made it sound like the Eagle landed at the T&P station. Just as long as we can get to it whether it be TRE, cab, hoof or motor car will be just fine. Thanks again.


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## Rafi (Mar 15, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> I just hope they keep the sightseer online. Without, it is cramped in that diner/lounge thing they built





Green Maned Lion said:


> 1 P42, Transleeper, Sleeper, Diner-Lounge, Coach-bag, Coach.
> Meaning the train will NOT run with a sightseer lounge!


Just for the record, NARP mentioned at the Region 4 (MD/VA/WVA/DC) meeting today that Amtrak has announced that when it starts running the CCC full-time later this spring on the Texas Eagle, the Sightseer Lounge WILL BE RUNNING alongside (unstaffed), thanks in no small part to heavy lobbying from TEMPO and NARP as I understand.

This, as we all know, sets a major positive precedent for keeping the SSL's on trains that get the CCC treatment.

Rafi


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2008)

Rafi said:


> daveyb99 said:
> 
> 
> > I just hope they keep the sightseer online. Without, it is cramped in that diner/lounge thing they built
> ...


It would set a precedent but for the fact that Amtrak plans to convert 40 Sightseer Lounge cars to Lounge-Diners, so I'm not sure that they'll have enough Sightseer Lounge cars left to cover all the routes.


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## had8ley (Mar 15, 2008)

Now, just one more question to add to the fire...will the CCC run all the way to San Antonio or will the crew still get off at Austin? (I know the car will go but will there be service?)


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## daveyb99 (Mar 15, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Now, just one more question to add to the fire...will the CCC run all the way to San Antonio or will the crew still get off at Austin? (I know the car will go but will there be service?)


I have written AMTRAK lots of time about removing the Diner crew in Austin. I even offered the possibility of keeping the crew only when the train is operating as #421 so breakfast will be available for #422 passengers ( and those boarding in SAS).

So far, no answer.

I really cant see how this would increase any costs, so I do not understand why they do it.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 15, 2008)

Rafi said:


> Just for the record, NARP mentioned at the Region 4 (MD/VA/WVA/DC) meeting today that Amtrak has announced that when it starts running the CCC full-time later this spring on the Texas Eagle, the Sightseer Lounge WILL BE RUNNING alongside (unstaffed), thanks in no small part to heavy lobbying from TEMPO and NARP as I understand.
> This, as we all know, sets a major positive precedent for keeping the SSL's on trains that get the CCC treatment.
> 
> Rafi



I hope this remain factual. That small 'lounge' on the Eagle last week was pitiful as a replacement for the Sightseer. It was fine for a waiting area, but not much else.

Now, would AMTRAK block access to the lower level of the Sightseer or leave it open. If that car is unstaffed, what is AMTRAK going to do for cleanliness. Makes me wonder what their final staffing count for the two cars will be. Was LSO, Waiter, Snack Car, Chef.

See, cut too many people and things go to  .


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Now, just one more question to add to the fire...will the CCC run all the way to San Antonio or will the crew still get off at Austin? (I know the car will go but will there be service?)


Well if they follow the game plan from the CONL, the CCC will be open all the way to/from San Antonio.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 15, 2008)

40 SSLs is basically the entire inventory. This means that Amtrak will have NEARLY DOUBLE their current Superliner dining capacity. May I suggest that the Lounge-Diner might just be a name for a substantially upgraded lounge car?


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## AlanB (Mar 15, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> 40 SSLs is basically the entire inventory. This means that Amtrak will have NEARLY DOUBLE their current Superliner dining capacity. May I suggest that the Lounge-Diner might just be a name for a substantially upgraded lounge car?


You can suggest that, the problem is that we quite honestly don't know what they are doing to these cars. Originally when the Diner-Lite plan was originally put forward, 10 diners and 40 lounge cars were supposed to be converted. Then after the intitial problems with the prototype diner that was converted, the plan to convert the lounge cars was put on hold. Shortly after that, we were given the CCC instead of the Diner-Lite.

Now we have the Lounge-Diner, so it is anyone's guess as to whether this is part of the original plan, with just a different name or if this is something new.

And yes, that is almost the entire fleet of Sightseer Lounge cars.


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## had8ley (Mar 16, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Now, just one more question to add to the fire...will the CCC run all the way to San Antonio or will the crew still get off at Austin? (I know the car will go but will there be service?)
> ...


Alan;

There's only one drawback as Davey as pointed out. The diner crew has been getting off at Austin for quite some time now. I believe at one point it was Dallas or Fort Worth. We all know the mindset at Amtrak HQ; why change something when it would do some good? I'm just wondering if they have even considered keeping the crew on to San Antonio. The City always has had a crew bumper to bumper. Maybe Rafi heard something about this.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 16, 2008)

Rafi said:


> daveyb99 said:
> 
> 
> > I just hope they keep the sightseer online. Without, it is cramped in that diner/lounge thing they built
> ...


YES! I am glad to see a good decision was made on this (if it holds) and the Lounge will stay. Unstaffed is fine, since it will just be a matter of stepping through to the Lounge side of the CCC if you wish a snack and carrying it back. I enjoy my 26 hour train rides from Oklahoma to Chicago (most my friends think I'm nuts) and will continue to use this option.


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## AlanB (Mar 16, 2008)

had8ley said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


While you're correct that the City has always had a crew bumper to bumper, the diner wasn't open bumper to bumper. Whereas the CCC is now basically open bumper to bumper according to all reports and that is one of the selling points that Amtrak is pushing. So one would expect that philosophy to carry over to the Eagle.

And let's not forget that at one time the Eagle had a crew bumper to bumper too. It's only been in the last few years that they started short turning part of the OBS crew.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 16, 2008)

had8ley said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Well if they follow the game plan from the CONL, the CCC will be open all the way to/from San Antonio.
> ...


It was Fort Worth I would guess until about 5 years ago, give or take.

Here is a riddle. Since the new design is actually serves two purposes, diner and lounge, will AMTRAK let passengers use the 'diner' side as a 'lounge' when the diner crew departs in AUS but the snack bar stays open. Same northbound out of SAS until the crew re-boards in AUS.

From my experience, AMTRAK has *ALWAYS* hated passengers hanging in the Diner when closed. So will they shoo people off? Will they let the folks mess up the diner side? Who will clean that up, or will the dine crew reboard and have to do it? Hmmmmm.

Seems the only real choice is to keep the crew on full time.

Maybe they do not serve breakfast northbound due to cost, but at a minimum they could extend dinner hours, save the $$$ for three hotel rooms in AUS, and have more time to prep for lunch northbound (if running late into AUS). I think AMTRAK would be wise to serve breakfast on #422, and study the feasibility of serving on #22.

Funny thing is, the rooms the crew uses overnights onboard from CHI-AUS, they likely get those same rooms back AUS-CHI.


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## had8ley (Mar 17, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Davey;

Are you perhaps suggesting that the crew get their rest on the trans-dorm? I don't know of anywhere else this is done on the system and after 24 hours plus riding the rails you really want to hit a hotel room. I'm not so sure that it is not in the union agreement that hotel rooms will be provided. It certainly would be a novel idea but I think the OBS crews would scream all the way to Washington and their General Union Chairmen. Another challenge would be to power the car at San Antonio for the entire lay-over.


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## AlanB (Mar 17, 2008)

had8ley said:


> daveyb99 said:
> 
> 
> > It was Fort Worth I would guess until about 5 years ago, give or take.
> ...


I don't think that power would be an issue at all, since they manage to keep the through cars powered. But food could be an issue, especially since the cook wouldn't want to be cooking. And then there is the idea that the crew probably would like to get a break off of the train for at least a night. And I agree Jay, they probably would scream bloody murder. I think that it is already a part of the contract, so I'm sure that Amtrak would have to put them up overnight in a hotel, be it in San Antonio or Austin.


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## had8ley (Mar 17, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > daveyb99 said:
> ...


Alan;

You're probably right about the power but one of two things would have to happen; the trans-dorm would have to stay coupled to the engine while they switch the California cars which makes the engineer shut down the HEP (totally a safety factor.) Otherwise they would have to set the car over onto which it could be connected to a land line power source.

Just one addition; IF they are "cold mealing" the sleeper pax between SAS and AUS don't think that they wouldn't do it to their own crews if the trans-dorm was indeed used for lodging in SAS.


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## had8ley (Mar 17, 2008)

Back in the Dark Ages, when I was a switchman, the hog law was 16 hours. We hit the Huey Long bridge with 175 cars and 8 F-7's. Well we almost made it to the top and pulled a draw bar (the bar that connects two cars together.) A train had come up behind us and had to put the emergency brakes on after we stopped and he also got a drawbar (both were on the "wrong" end of the cars meaning that the separated part of the train had to be pulled back off the bridge and the cars set out.) Moral of the story is that after all the smoke cleared we were on duty 23 hours and 45 minutes. I was never so glad to get off of a locomotive in my life. Today's 12 hour hog law is a breeze but I can fully understand where OBS is coming from in wanting off the train ASAP at the bumper. I love railroading as much as anyone but it can get old quick especially if you work seven days a week as we did for many years.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 17, 2008)

well got my tickets in the mail today. that was fast sense i ordered them last Tuesday.the trip is has follows. ROY,CHI,LAX return LAX,CHI,ROY. TE up and swc back. leaving may 1st. and there all one way special fair no stop over


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## daveyb99 (Mar 18, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Davey;Are you perhaps suggesting that the crew get their rest on the trans-dorm? I don't know of anywhere else this is done on the system and after 24 hours plus riding the rails you really want to hit a hotel room. I'm not so sure that it is not in the union agreement that hotel rooms will be provided. It certainly would be a novel idea but I think the OBS crews would scream all the way to Washington and their General Union Chairmen. Another challenge would be to power the car at San Antonio for the entire lay-over.


Well, I guess that is what I am suggesting. After finishing Dinner (at a reasonable time and NOT before 6:30PM as it is now !!!), they would retire for the night to rise again at departure time the next morning.

So what do the other TE crew members do? My understanding is they had the Trans Dorm in SAS - that would be arriving 10:25PM, departing 07:00AM+1 - and not a hotel room. Maybe I misunderstood that.


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## rtabern (Mar 18, 2008)

I just got home from doing the trip on 421 from CHI-LAX (well, CHI-TUS... and bussed to LAX because of a freight derailment) and overall it was a nice trip.

Pictures are on:

rtabern.shutterfly.com

My recommendation is that if you get into San Antonio at a reasonable hour, walk over to the Alamo. Make friends with some fellow passengers and check it out... it's definetly with-in walking distance. Because of the late hour, I wouldn't walk it alone, but you'd be okay with atleast one other person. Walk to the right after the station... there are signs pointing the way. It's cool... I do 421 twice a year CHI-LAX... and always see the Alamo.

As far as the dining car crew, they currently serve an early dinner on Day 2 of the trip on 421 and they get off in Austin, TX and stay in a hotel room... and catch 422 back the next day.

To me, it would make more sense if they just served an early dinner and went to sleep in the Transition car and got turned around in SAS (the transition on 21 DOES become the transition on 22)... but I am sure it's a union thing or something that they get that hotel room in AUS.


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## had8ley (Mar 19, 2008)

rtabern said:


> I just got home from doing the trip on 421 from CHI-LAX (well, CHI-TUS... and bussed to LAX because of a freight derailment) and overall it was a nice trip.
> Pictures are on:
> 
> rtabern.shutterfly.com
> ...


Robert;

We've been discussing that on another topic. I'm almost positive that the crews are allowed to take lodging at Amtrak expense at the end of their run.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 23, 2008)

ok have another question. im only going to be in l.a for a day sense im doing this trip for the fun of it. if i go bar hopping i don't want to drag my luggage with me


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## the_traveler (Mar 23, 2008)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> ok have another question. im only going to be in l.a for a day sense im doing this trip for the fun of it. if i go bar hopping i don't want to drag my luggage with me


If you're going to check your baggage on the return trip, I'm sure you could check it upon arrival.


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## pamletx (Mar 23, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> Well, I guess that is what I am suggesting. After finishing Dinner (at a reasonable time and NOT before 6:30PM as it is now !!!), they would retire for the night to rise again at departure time the next morning.
> So what do the other TE crew members do? My understanding is they had the Trans Dorm in SAS - that would be arriving 10:25PM, departing 07:00AM+1 - and not a hotel room. Maybe I misunderstood that.


When I came down CHI SMC in November that gal in our car said it depends on how late they get into SAS .. sometimes they're in a hotel .. sometimes they stay on the train... Not sure who/what determines where they overnight...


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## racer1735 (Mar 23, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Worth station is the original Texas & Pacific Railway HQ and has been redone in all its original splendor. I'm going next month just to see it and take some pix.
> ...


Your photo labelled 'T&P Station' is actually the intermodal facility. The T&P station is located to the southwest of the intermodal/Santa Fe station. Used to be across I-30 from downtown, but I beleive they have since actually moved the interstate to the southside of the tracks so the old T&P building is now semi-near downtown Fort Worth.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 24, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> KISS_ALIVE said:
> 
> 
> > ok have another question. im only going to be in l.a for a day sense im doing this trip for the fun of it. if i go bar hopping i don't want to drag my luggage with me
> ...


im not checking my luggage i will only have like a duffle bag and maby a backpack and if i want to ride the metro (subway) i don't want to drag the bag around


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## daveyb99 (Mar 24, 2008)

racer1735 said:


> Your photo labelled 'T&P Station' is actually the intermodal facility. The T&P station is located to the southwest of the intermodal/Santa Fe station. Used to be across I-30 from downtown, but I beleive they have since actually moved the interstate to the southside of the tracks so the old T&P building is now semi-near downtown Fort Worth.


Ya well, it was just a typo.

I am very familiar with the Fort Worth station(s).....

... and the destruction of the I30 overhead.


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