# How Many "Union Stations" Are There?



## TinCan782 (Jul 30, 2017)

A friend who knows I travel by rail a lot asked this of me. So, I'll throw his question out here and see what happens!

*How many union stations do you think (or know) there are in the U.S.?*

I never gave this much thought, might be interesting.

Thanks


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## me_little_me (Jul 30, 2017)

Does it count if they were built by non-union labor? Just kidding. :giggle:


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 30, 2017)

Are you including those no longer used as Amtrak and other types of Rail Stations?

Additions to Third Rails List would include Portland,OR,Dallas,El Paso,Utica, Little Rock and Grand Central Terminal!!!!

Seattle's Union Station is now a Transit Headquarters and Office Building Complex as Bill says.


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## Thirdrail7 (Jul 30, 2017)

Off the top of my head, I know Den/Denver, HFD/Hartford, NHV/New Haven,SPG/ Springfield(Mass),CHI/Chicago,WAS/Washington DC,CIN/Cincinnati,LOS/Los Angeles,IND/Indianapolis,KCY/Kansas City,STL/St. Louis and CVS/Charlottesville.

Years ago, Amtrak had a bus connection to Nashville, which I believe served a defunct Union Station.


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## PRR 60 (Jul 30, 2017)

Seattle Union Station is no longer a train station, but has been renovated and is the headquarters of Sound Transit.


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## Maglev (Jul 30, 2017)

Also Portland, Oregon.


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## pennyk (Jul 30, 2017)

I think Tampa, FL is a Union Station.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 30, 2017)

pennyk said:


> I think Tampa, FL is a Union Station.


Yes; it was originally used by the Tampa Northern, Atlantic Coast Line, and Seaboard Air Line. 
Raleigh's new train station is called Union Station, despite only serving Amtrak (unless the Piedmont is counted as an individual railroad). There are plans in the future for commuter rail and/or high speed rail, however.

To add to the list, St. Paul and Pittsburgh are both Union Stations, despite Pittsburgh's station serving only the Pennsylvania Railroad for much of it's history.

If modern stations not known as Union Station but that serve multiple railroads (usually Amtrak and one or more commuter railroads) are counted, the list gets much longer.

Also, the station code for Los Angeles is LAX, not LOS.


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## the_traveler (Jul 30, 2017)

Yes, Tampa is Union Station. The code for LA is LAX, not LOS. St Louis Union Station is no longer used by Amtrak.

Isn't NOL a Union Station too? :huh: How about Memphis & St Paul?


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## WICT106 (Jul 30, 2017)

Also, Des Moines Union Depot, Jackson, MS Union Station, and Milwaukee Union Depot, and Toronto, ON Union Station. For a starting point, see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Union_stations_in_the_United_States.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 30, 2017)

Bob Dylan said:


> Are you including those no longer used as Amtrak and other types of Rail Stations?
> 
> Additions to Third Rails List would include Portland,OR,Dallas,El Paso,Utica, Little Rock and Grand Central Terminal!!!!
> 
> Seattle's Union Station is now a Transit Headquarters and Office Building Complex as Bill says.


For this discussion, don't think it really matters. Obviously some still are, some have been re-purposed into other uses. I guess a number of major cities, served by more than one railroad (pre-Amtrak), had or have a "union station".


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## TinCan782 (Jul 30, 2017)

WICT106 said:


> Also, Des Moines Union Depot, Jackson, MS Union Station, and Milwaukee Union Depot, and Toronto, ON Union Station. For a starting point, see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Union_stations_in_the_United_States.


Bingo...I'll send the Wikipedia link to my friend. Thanks


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## StriderGDM (Jul 30, 2017)

As that list shows, even small towns could have Union Stations. Canaan CT is a fairly small town (only a few thousand residents) and has never had Amtrak service.


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## railiner (Jul 30, 2017)

One of my favorite small town Union Station's, was that of Effingham, Illinois, originally the crossing of the IC "Main Line of Mid America" and PRR's "Panhandle Route"....now CN and CSX...

Through the years I made several connections between the National Limited and CONO or Shawnee..... 

Other favorites were Englewood, in pre-Amtrak era, and Joliet...and of course Omaha Union, which was also connected to the Burlington Station via bridge...

Ogden was another good one, then there's Albany, Springfield, Worcester....the list just goes on and on....


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 30, 2017)

FrensicPic said:


> WICT106 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Des Moines Union Depot, Jackson, MS Union Station, and Milwaukee Union Depot, and Toronto, ON Union Station. For a starting point, see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Union_stations_in_the_United_States.
> ...


I don't know if that is any worthwhile reference. For example, it lists Penn Station in NYC, as a Union Station.


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## Karl1459 (Jul 30, 2017)

I think a "Union Station" usually indicated a joint ownership of the station and associated trackage arrangement of various railroads, rather than a host-tenant relationship. Portland OR was jointly owned by UP(OWRN), SP, SP&S, NP, and possibly GN and others. Seattle's was primarily owned by UP(OWRN) and Milwaukee and though a "Union Station" did not serve the Hill lines (GN/NP etc).

Which brings up that the station in Union, Oregon many years ago was not a Union Station!


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## jphjaxfl (Jul 30, 2017)

Peoria. Illinois had a beautiful Union Station which was built in 1882, but, unfortunately, destroyed by fire in the early 1960s. It's last passenger train was in 1955. It was built and owned by the Peoria and Pekin Union Railroad which was a terminal railroad owned by several major railroads. It served over 100 passenger trains daily including trains of the C&A, RI&P, P&E (division of the New York Central), IC,PRR, C&NW, CB&Q, NKP, CP&STL, M & SL ,TP&W, P&PU and Peoria Terminal. The only trains that didn't serve Peoria Union Station were the CRI&P trains from Chicago and Illinois Terminal Interurban Electric trains. In the 1920s there were 10 trains each direction to and from Chicago on 3 different routes.


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## Maglev (Jul 30, 2017)

St. Paul is a "Union Depot," not "Union Station." Also, Los Angeles used to be a "Union Passenger Terminal."


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## TinCan782 (Jul 30, 2017)

Maglev said:


> St. Paul is a "Union Depot," not "Union Station." Also, Los Angeles used to be a "Union Passenger Terminal."


And LAUPT is now referred to as LA Union Station (LAUS)


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## MikefromCrete (Jul 30, 2017)

FrensicPic said:


> Maglev said:
> 
> 
> > St. Paul is a "Union Depot," not "Union Station." Also, Los Angeles used to be a "Union Passenger Terminal."
> ...


Union Station, Union Depot, Union Terminal. It makes no difference in the general discussion of "Union" facilities, which refer to a depot, station or terminal used by more than one railroad. I'm sure there were hundreds of them at one time. Only a few active ones are left today.


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## railiner (Jul 30, 2017)

Maglev said:


> ." Also, Los Angeles used to be a "Union Passenger Terminal."


New Orleans used that, too. And since it now is shared by Greyhound, you can say it is still appropriate....


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## hastybob (Jul 31, 2017)

Being from the South, I'll add a few:

Birmingham Union Station (at least until the Terminal station was built in 1906), Montgomery, Atlanta, Augusta, Albany (Ga)(Although it is technically Albany Passenger Terminal), Charleston had one until it burned in the late 1950's. Meridian, Ms, Memphis (not the IC station that is Amtrak served), Shreveport. Wasn't the station in Columbia, SC that the Southern served also a Union Station?


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## ehbowen (Jul 31, 2017)

Houston's Union Station is now the lobby for Minute Maid Park. I must say, however, that the restored waiting room looks much better than it ever had since it was "modernized" in the 1960s.

(What is it about a dropped acoustic tile ceiling which seemed so automatically "modern" to those in the years of the Johnson administration...?)

Edit To Add: Found a picture:


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## railiner (Jul 31, 2017)

Good observation, but I believe the 'modernized' railway station 'dropped ceiling movement' started long before LBJ...some examples include the IC's Central Station in Chicago, and the original Pennsylvania Station in New York, although in the case of the latter, it was only a partial cover up over a new ticketing area in the '50's....


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 1, 2017)

It cuts HVAC costs massively. It's cost cutting, not modernization.


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## railiner (Aug 1, 2017)

This is what I was referring to....doesn't do much for HVAC, but the canopy, and sawtooth style ticket plaza was an attempt to 'modernize' in the 50's...all it really did was mar the appearance of the classic station, IMHO...

http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/52d8/2d6d/e8e4/4e45/1200/000e/large_jpg/PennStation_Historic_American_Buildings_Survey_Cervin_Robinson_Main_Waiting_Room.jpg?1389899114


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## zephyr17 (Aug 1, 2017)

railiner said:


> This is what I was referring to....doesn't do much for HVAC, but the canopy, and sawtooth style ticket plaza was an attempt to 'modernize' in the 50's...all it really did was mar the appearance of the classic station, IMHO...
> 
> http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/52d8/2d6d/e8e4/4e45/1200/000e/large_jpg/PennStation_Historic_American_Buildings_Survey_Cervin_Robinson_Main_Waiting_Room.jpg?1389899114


That thing also blocked what had been the main corridor between the waiting room and the concourse, messing up circulation.


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## railiner (Aug 1, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I was referring to....doesn't do much for HVAC, but the canopy, and sawtooth style ticket plaza was an attempt to 'modernize' in the 50's...all it really did was mar the appearance of the classic station, IMHO...
> ...


And it was carried over to the "new Penn Station" when the ticketing plaza was in the rotunda....at least Amtrak improved on that when they did a major remodeling of the Penn Central era station in the eighties, and relocated the ticketing area to its present location on the west side of the concourse, where retail space once existed...


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 1, 2017)

Cleveland's Terminal Tower served several lines in the 30s to 60s including New York Central, Nickel Plate and CCC&STL. The B&O, Wheeling and Erie also were to utilize the facility. Amtrak moved to its new station on the Lakefront in 1977. All had to utilize 22 electric locomotives to gain access to the underground terminal during the steam era. Wish the old TT could be brought back to life but much of the track and access are now gone.


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## railiner (Aug 2, 2017)

Railroad Bill said:


> Cleveland's Terminal Tower served several lines in the 30s to 60s including New York Central, Nickel Plate and CCC&STL. The B&O, Wheeling and Erie also were to utilize the facility. Amtrak moved to its new station on the Lakefront in 1977. All had to utilize 22 electric locomotives to gain access to the underground terminal during the steam era. Wish the old TT could be brought back to life but much of the track and access are now gone.


Yes...it's a very nice Station. It was the Easternmost outpost for the Fred Harvey Company, who had a restaurant, lunch counter, and gift shop within.

IIRC, other than the rapid transit and light rail, the last train to serve it was the Conrail (former Erie) commuter train to Youngstown, which lasted until around 1980 or so, (not sure)...


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## dlagrua (Aug 2, 2017)

Union Station in Omaha, NE has been fully restored and is in beautiful pristine condition. While it still sits along the tracks, many of the features of the Golden age remain including the 1930's style lunch counter (still serving food) with the old fashioned stools. It is now a museum. The other station in Omaha is Burlington station that was used by Amtrak until 1982. It was then abandoned and fell into disrepair until a few years ago when it was fully restored and is now the headquarters of a television station. As for Amtrak they built an "Amshack" style station a block away. No more need for large Union Stations when there is only one LD train arrival and departure each day.












Did we mention St Louis Union Station? Still used by commuter trains but not by Amtrak. Its a large place, part hotel, part mall and they certainly have the room but Amtrak likes their Amshacks.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 2, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> Union Station in Omaha, NE has been fully restored and is in beautiful pristine condition. While it still sits along the tracks, many of the features of the Golden age remain including the 1930's style lunch counter (still serving food) with the old fashioned stools. It is now a museum. The other station in Omaha is Burlington station that was used by Amtrak until 1982. It was then abandoned and fell into disrepair until a few years ago when it was fully restored and is now the headquarters of a television station. As for Amtrak they built an "Amshack" style station a block away. No more need for large Union Stations when there is only one LD train arrival and departure each day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Were/are those stations owned by Amtrak or by the cities or someone else?


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## railiner (Aug 2, 2017)

There used to be a nice long enclosed bridge spanning the tracks, and connecting those two Omaha stations.

As for ownership...I believe both railroads unloaded them years ago, to get out from realty tax liabilities...I think the City may own the Union Station, or the local historical society, perhaps. And I suppose that TV Station must now own the Burlington station building...Amtrak probably owns or leases its current station...


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## jis (Aug 2, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> Did we mention St Louis Union Station? Still used by commuter trains but not by Amtrak. Its a large place, part hotel, part mall and they certainly have the room but Amtrak likes their Amshacks.


St. Louis Union Station is not really used by any trains at all, except occasionally by PVs parked on one of the two remaining tracks.

The St. Louis LRT Union Station is a good walk from the Union Station Hotel to an area that is just outside the edge of the old station canopy, near where the old signal bridge used to be. The old waiting room is now the Union Station hotel's lobby. While the Hard Rock Cafe and the Landry's are still in business, the rest of the Mall development there seems to have collapsed. There is lot of construction going on to repurpose the property into a Convention Center or something like that. Most of the old Mall area is now sealed off for construction. Unless you have a hotel key to enter through one of its back doors, you have to walk along sidewalks outside the station property to get from the LRT Union Station to the hotel lobby (the old headhouse).

We were there just a couple of weeks back during the OTOL Missouri Texas Rail Fest and most of us stayed at the Hilto Curio Collection St. Louis Union Station Hotel in the active construction zone.


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## Eric S (Aug 2, 2017)

jis said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Did we mention St Louis Union Station? Still used by commuter trains but not by Amtrak. Its a large place, part hotel, part mall and they certainly have the room but Amtrak likes their Amshacks.
> ...


Evidently an aquarium - http://www.stlouisunionstation.com/listings/st-louis-aquarium/


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## jis (Aug 2, 2017)

Eric S said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > dlagrua said:
> ...


Ah. Good to know. Thanks.


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## Big Green Chauvanist (Aug 11, 2017)

PRR 60 said:


> Seattle Union Station is no longer a train station, but has been renovated and is the headquarters of Sound Transit.


Make that "beautifully restored" to its former glory. Seattle must be one of the few with two great old stations, across the street from each other, still extant. King Street Station served the Great Northern and Northern Pacific in the day; Union Station the Union Pacific and Milwaukee Road. Must have been some sight!


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## dlagrua (Aug 11, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Union Station in Omaha, NE has been fully restored and is in beautiful pristine condition. While it still sits along the tracks, many of the features of the Golden age remain including the 1930's style lunch counter (still serving food) with the old fashioned stools. It is now a museum. The other station in Omaha is Burlington station that was used by Amtrak until 1982. It was then abandoned and fell into disrepair until a few years ago when it was fully restored and is now the headquarters of a television station. As for Amtrak they built an "Amshack" style station a block away. No more need for large Union Stations when there is only one LD train arrival and departure each day.
> ...


IIRC, Amtrak originally used Burlington Station in Omaha until the early 80's. The station had a circular staircase in the middle that led to tracks below. It was abandoned and left to rot until two years ago when a television station purchased the structure, restored it and made it their headquarters. As for Union Station; that was also abandoned (don't have the exact date) taken over by the city of Omaha and re-purposed as a museum. It still looks very much like it did back in the day. Today Amtrak passengers use a small Amshack station across the way. We will be there next May to take pictures and will have a full report. It must have been great during the golden age of passenger rail. It is a shame that more people today don't appreciate how relaxing and enjoyable rail travel can be, instead preferring a 16-18" wide seat and 28" of legroom on a plane.I guess everyone is in a hurry these days.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 11, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > dlagrua said:
> ...


You say USED. I asked if they owned the stations. You've said before that Amtrak likes it's Amshacks which implies to me that you are saying they abandoned the big stations. If they did not own the big stations, maybe the owners abandoned them and Amtrak had to build the Amshacks because they were evicted.


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## jphjaxfl (Aug 11, 2017)

It really wasn't practical for Amtrak to continue to use the large stations for so few trains. A good example is Jacksonville, FL which still has a grand old Union Terminal which is now used by the City as a convention auditorium. Amtrak use the Terminal for almost 2 years after they started for its 10 trains that continued to serve Jacksonville. The New York to Florida trains and the Floridian had lengthy back up moves to use the Terminal. The current Amshack serves only 4 trains and is loacted in the railroad yards in a not so great part of the city. The New York - Florida schedules were reduced by about 45 minutes after they changed to the new station. There has been "talk" through the years of moving Amtrak back to the terminal, but most of the passenger infrastructure has been removed from the convention center with no discussion of who will pay to replace it. If the Trump plan is implemented, it will be a mute point. If Brightline implements service to Jacksonville, they would likely build a modern station like the ones in South Florida perhaps close to the convention center.


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## railiner (Aug 11, 2017)

Anyone remember Kansas City Union Station during Amtrak's early years?

Besides being way too large for the few remaining trains, the building became so decrepit that in desperation, they erected a large inflatable dome inside to reduce HVAC costs, as well as the leaky roof...


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 11, 2017)

railiner said:


> Anyone remember Kansas City Union Station during Amtrak's early years?
> 
> Besides being way too large for the few remaining trains, the building became so decrepit that in desperation, they erected a large inflatable dome inside to reduce HVAC costs, as well as the leaky roof...


Yep, and there are pictures in this Beautifully Restored Gem that show it in its Glory Days and just how bad it got before the Restoration.


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