# More Work on Lackawanna Cutoff



## reefgeek (Mar 20, 2011)

The Star Ledger today reports more work on the mammoth task of restoring rail service to the Lackawanna Cutoff. Is this project going to be finished in time for the next ice age? At least it's underway finally. From the looks of the attached article, the folks in Andover will be very happy to have a train station again!

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/nj_transit_works_to_restore_ra.html

I for one am, looking forward to taking the train from Denville to Scranton for a seafood dinner at Coopers when it's finished!

http://www.coopers-seafood.com/


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 21, 2011)

This isn't news, and they aren't going to likely have much service on that line. A peak train a day in each direction, most likely.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Mar 22, 2011)

I heard 10 trains per day intill PA part is reopened. Then 30 trains per day......


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## reefgeek (Mar 23, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> This isn't news, and they aren't going to likely have much service on that line. A peak train a day in each direction, most likely.


Gee, it was news to me. On what do you base your opinions?


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 23, 2011)

I am a member of an organization called the Lackawanna Coalition, which spends its time working to improved service "on former Erie-Lackawanna Lines and connecting transportation" or something to that effect. Next to Jis, I probably know more about what goes on in regard to rail in New Jersey than anyone on this board.

30 trains a day on the cutoff? Balls. 10 trains each way? When we are serving more than just Andover, possibly. But why you expect it to have more service than the much shorter and more relevant line to Hackettstown running west from Dover is beyond me.

A PA restoration depends entirely on PA. NJ is not paying for restoration of the line west of the Delaware, or any service on it. Especially not under Christie. But even in the event of a political change, I consider it unlikely. I know the people who run the operation, and they aren't interested in useful service improvements. We had to fight tooth and nail to get a train that was laying over for an hour every two hours to be turned into a live move to Bay Street, thereby restoring Montclair weekend service at minimal cost.


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## reefgeek (Mar 25, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I am a member of an organization called the Lackawanna Coalition, which spends its time working to improved service "on former Erie-Lackawanna Lines and connecting transportation" or something to that effect. Next to Jis, I probably know more about what goes on in regard to rail in New Jersey than anyone on this board.
> 
> 30 trains a day on the cutoff? Balls. 10 trains each way? When we are serving more than just Andover, possibly. But why you expect it to have more service than the much shorter and more relevant line to Hackettstown running west from Dover is beyond me.
> 
> A PA restoration depends entirely on PA. NJ is not paying for restoration of the line west of the Delaware, or any service on it. Especially not under Christie. But even in the event of a political change, I consider it unlikely. I know the people who run the operation, and they aren't interested in useful service improvements. We had to fight tooth and nail to get a train that was laying over for an hour every two hours to be turned into a live move to Bay Street, thereby restoring Montclair weekend service at minimal cost.


That's disappointing but I believe you. I'm from Montclair and I remember the unbelieveable nonsense that was required to make the little connection between the Boonton line and the old electric line that terminated at Grove Street Station. Through what was possibly the worst part of town. What was that, five years and six million dollars?

I would hope that restoring the cutoff turns out to be a good prediction (or guess) of future needs if fuel prices go through the roof. But who knows? There wasn't a huge outcry when it went out of business the first time.


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## steamtrain6868 (Mar 25, 2011)

How would this get Service back to Binghamton NY? We have been talking about this for years...


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## jis (Mar 25, 2011)

steamtrain6868 said:


> How would this get Service back to Binghamton NY? We have been talking about this for years...


Just going upto Andover won't. But if the entire Lackawanna NJ Cutoff is restored then the routing would be Dover/Port Morris - Slateford Jct - Pocono Summit - Scranton - Binghamton. Scranton to Binghamton is already a 60mph+ railroad over what some would call the "real" Lackawanna Cutoff across Nicholson Viaduct starting at Clarke's Summit just north of Scranton, which is now a major north-south corridor owned by CP. Amtrak usually operates a special over it each year from Albany via Binghamton to get to the Steamtown Day celebrations in Scranton. Scranton to Slateford is operatd by a Short Line connecting to NS at Slateford. Steamtown operates a couple of its trains to Stroudsburg or Delaware Water Gap on that line from Scranton each year. The missing link is the Lackawanna NJ Cutoff from Slateford to Port Morris. Port Morris to Andover is a short 9 mile segment at its east end, that is currently being restored.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Mar 28, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I am a member of an organization called the Lackawanna Coalition, which spends its time working to improved service "on former Erie-Lackawanna Lines and connecting transportation" or something to that effect. Next to Jis, I probably know more about what goes on in regard to rail in New Jersey than anyone on this board.
> 
> 30 trains a day on the cutoff? Balls. 10 trains each way? When we are serving more than just Andover, possibly. But why you expect it to have more service than the much shorter and more relevant line to Hackettstown running west from Dover is beyond me.
> 
> A PA restoration depends entirely on PA. NJ is not paying for restoration of the line west of the Delaware, or any service on it. Especially not under Christie. But even in the event of a political change, I consider it unlikely. I know the people who run the operation, and they aren't interested in useful service improvements. We had to fight tooth and nail to get a train that was laying over for an hour every two hours to be turned into a live move to Bay Street, thereby restoring Montclair weekend service at minimal cost.


30 trains per day if or when the whole corridor is restored up to Binghamton. Theres a large population waiting to use the corridor so demand will be there.... We need to get a PPP's involved with the reconstruction of the Lack and other lines and what makes me mad is groups like the Sierra Club or the Lackawanna coalition haven't pushed for that.....if you want all these restored so badly then push the state to get involved with PPP's like they do out west or in Aussieland.


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## jis (Mar 28, 2011)

According to NJTransit's own documentation, Andover will have somewhere between 5 to 8 trains per day. Of course Lackawanna Coalition could campaign to reduce it to 2  , but I don't think they will 

Incidentally Hackettstown has 7 and Mt Olive has 9 or 10. The Mt Olive turns are there because of single track issues.

Although given the size of the parking lot at Andover, one is left wondering how they will fill those 5 to 8 trains, unless they are also planning feeder bus service to Andover. But there is room for additional service from Lake Hopatcong to serve Mt. Arlington better, and it could stand to reason that those trains would originate and terminate in Andover.

Unfortunately too many of the NJ rail advocacy groups are entirely consumed by how trains should operate through New York, to worry about whether anything is built in or any any service is expanded in NJ.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Mar 28, 2011)

jis said:


> According to NJTransit's own documentation, Andover will have somewhere between 5 to 8 trains per day. Of course Lackawanna Coalition could campaign to reduce it to 2  , but I don't think they will
> 
> Incidentally Hackettstown has 7 and Mt Olive has 9 or 10. The Mt Olive turns are there because of single track issues.
> 
> ...


They should focus more on Hoboken since its the portal to Lower Manhattan and were the rest of the state goes aside form Newark. People have ignored the connections to Wall Street / Jersey City for too long now , and now were paying for it. The PATH can only add so much capacity before there stuck. It seems the bloggers are the only ones who care or even see the issue down the road. Theres over 200,000 jobs in Lower Manhattan , Jersey City and Newark its time we start focusing more on those areas.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 30, 2011)

jis said:


> Unfortunately too many of the NJ rail advocacy groups are entirely consumed by how trains should operate through New York, to worry about whether anything is built in or any any service is expanded in NJ.


*Disclaimer* I am talking for myself, not the Lackawanna Coalition

Too damned true. Last meeting of the LC, I spent most of my time listening to George Haikalis rambling on about his Hoboken Alternative idea (which is so ridiculously stupid, what with his 3% grades and his insistence that NJT scrap all of its equipment in favor of MUs that can through run to LIRR and MNCR, and all that other idealistic nonsense) rather than useful subjects. By the time he was done with it, I had to leave the meeting, because I sell at Cowtown on tuesdays.

But from what I read of the minutes, not much was done before we adjourned because of the time devoted to a presentation on an idea that has little merit and no chance of implementation.

As far as I am concerned, and I have made my positon clear at meetings, the Gateway project is unlikely to proceed, but if it does, it should accomplish most of whats needed. A build out to GCT is possible with its construction, and can be addressed later. For now it is somewhat academic. I wish we could spend more time on useful projects like extending the RVL to Philipsburg, MO/MOM, the Cutoff, HBLR to Tenafly, and the DRPA project from Camden to Glassboro.

Unfortunately, the real problem is that here in NJ, we have a few major advocacy groups (NJ-ARP, RVC, LC) and they spend too much time arguing with each other and disagreeing with each other to get much accomplished. Having an egotistical fool like Al Papp elected to head NJ-ARP doesn't help, either.

If we had a unified group that worked on more useful and possible issues, and stopped bickering over how we are going to accomplish things that aren't going to happen in our life times, I think more could be done. Hell, I know it.


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## Derik (Mar 21, 2012)

********************* NOTE - 1 year Old Topic ***********************

Light rail service would be great for commuting around morris and parts of Sussex,maybe should of been considered for the cutoff.Every thing seems focused on in and out of NY,not to mention the theory Pocono casinos want NY gamblers.Many towns in north jersey are connected by old freight rr beds,abandoned spurs,etc that could be put to good use.Why don't we ever hear any ideas about something like that?Could be very useful for people whose commute doesn't start or end along rail that's in service now and could help ease local traffic congestion.


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## reefgeek (Mar 26, 2012)

Derik said:


> 1332351277[/url]' post='355210']********************* NOTE - 1 year Old Topic ***********************
> 
> Light rail service would be great for commuting around morris and parts of Sussex,maybe should of been considered for the cutoff.Every thing seems focused on in and out of NY,not to mention the theory Pocono casinos want NY gamblers.Many towns in north jersey are connected by old freight rr beds,abandoned spurs,etc that could be put to good use.Why don't we ever hear any ideas about something like that?Could be very useful for people whose commute doesn't start or end along rail that's in service now and could help ease local traffic congestion.


Bring back the Rockaway Loop!,


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