# Smoking on the California Zephyr



## RAIL DISCUSSER (Sep 4, 2010)

I recently travelled from Denver to Chicago on the California Zephyr. When we left Denver, the Conductor told us that we could not smoke on the train or we would get "put off". Once we got to Omaha, that Conductor got off the train and we got a new Conductor that was cool.

The new Conductor turned our coach into a smoking car and told all the non-smokers to move up to a different car. The Conductor even sat in the coach with us and smoked a pipe. Now that's what I'm talking about.

Maybe I will get a cool Conductor on my next trip. I think this guy said his name was Charles.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, right.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 4, 2010)

RAIL DISCUSSER said:


> I recently travelled from Denver to Chicago on the California Zephyr. When we left Denver, the Conductor told us that we could not smoke on the train or we would get "put off". Once we got to Omaha, that Conductor got off the train and we got a new Conductor that was cool.
> 
> The new Conductor turned our coach into a smoking car and told all the non-smokers to move up to a different car. The Conductor even sat in the coach with us and smoked a pipe. Now that's what I'm talking about.
> 
> Maybe I will get a cool Conductor on my next trip. I think this guy said his name was Charles.


There is a better chance that "Charles" would be departing, as in fired by Amtrak. If what you described actually happened (and I truly doubt it), that would be a gross violation of Amtrak rules and could subject the conductor to termination. If anyone of the relocated non-smokers complained to Amtrak, Charles would be flipping burgers somewhere. That would be "cool."

I think this post is bogus.


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## MrFSS (Sep 4, 2010)

I think we have had this discussed before in connection with the Iowa flooding. This may have been the train that went from Omaha to Chicago without any stops. And, indeed, it is possible, as others have reported, they made one car the smoking car since there would be no smoke breaks. That would have been announced in that car if indeed this is what happened.

I have edited the OP message to remove the name calling.


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## rrdude (Sep 4, 2010)

MrFSS said:


> I think we have had this discussed before in connection with the Iowa flooding. This may have been the train that went from Omaha to Chicago without any stops. And, indeed, it is possible, as others have reported, they made one car the smoking car since there would be no smoke breaks. That would have been announced in that car if indeed this is what happened.
> 
> I have edited the OP message to remove the name calling.


Ever the Diplomat!


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## caravanman (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi,

I wonder whether it would even be legal to turn one car into a smoking car? I have seen a guy arrested by the local sherrif after being caught smoking aboard train, at an unscheduled road/rail stop. My point is this: If it is "a federal offence" to smoke, then can Amtrak employees "waive, or cancell" the federal offence, simply by "giving permission"?

Cheers,

Ed


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## Long Train Runnin' (Sep 4, 2010)

caravanman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wonder whether it would even be legal to turn one car into a smoking car? I have seen a guy arrested by the local sherrif after being caught smoking aboard train, at an unscheduled road/rail stop. My point is this: If it is "a federal offence" to smoke, then can Amtrak employees "waive, or cancell" the federal offence, simply by "giving permission"?
> 
> ...


The conductor has authority over the train, so I suppose a decision like this would be at his discretion I guess if you really stretch it you could say he acted for the safety of the passengers by allowing them to feed their addictions. Amtrak's rule book does allow but "discourages" smoking in locomotives for operating crew.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

Im no lawyer (maybe the members that are will weigh in here??) :help: but since smoking is allowed on the AutoTrain in the designated "smoking lounge" perhaps it's a matter of Amtrak policy and not federal law? :unsure: I too have seen several people put off for smoking aboard trains and even arrested for smoking pot @ the next "stop"!  If Blue jean Girl or another of our Amtrak employees is reading this thread perhaps we can get a definitive answer??


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## AlanB (Sep 4, 2010)

It's a combination of law and policy I believe. AFAIK, there is a law that requires separated sections between smokers and non-smokers. Hence the smoker's lounges on the Auto Train, and for that matter the lounges that used to exist on all long distance trains. Amtrak policy did away with those other lounges in large part because the smoker's abused their privileges. So now only the Auto Train, which makes no passenger stops along the way, has lounges left.


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## RailSmoker (Sep 28, 2010)

I've done some checking into this and I have found it to be true. Lots of conductors allow smoking on the trains. They tell you to sneak down to the window and pretend that they do now know you are doing it. Other's like Charles, do convert the cars into smoking cars. Only a few ****s try to enforce the policies but we smokers usually win that game. Smoke away on the CZ!


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## Shawn Ryu (Sep 28, 2010)

Its too bad you cant do this on an Amfleet or any one level cars.


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## Trogdor (Sep 28, 2010)

Pretty much every train I have been on, the conductors emphasize in no uncertain terms that smoking is not allowed. To say the smokers "usually win" is probably stretching it. A conductor is playing Russian roulette with his job if he thinks he's going to turn a car into an unofficial "smoking" car.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmm. I've yet to encounter any smokers on the train. If I ever see this being allowed I'll be more than happy to report it to Amtrak HR, the press, and to every regulatory authority that has a say in the matter. That should ensure it doesn't just get swept under the rug. Happy smoking! ^_^


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 28, 2010)

Never been on a train where this has happened under any circumstances.


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## LA Resident (Sep 28, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Never been on a train where this has happened under any circumstances.


This one sounds suspiciously similar to the recent posting by the woman who allegedly had her computer tower stolen by someone who just happened to rifle through her stowed luggage...yada yada yada

The number of trips by those on this forum who've ridden Amtrak trains must total in the thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, and yet there is not a single instance, except for this supposed CZ case, where a coach has been found converted into a smoking coach.

The odds are pretty high that many of those on this forum would have encountered this conductor and his tendency to encourage smokers to have at it in a special coach.

But no one has any tale to recount.

And further, given the no-smoking mantra among so many Americans today, I'd bet that at least one passenger would have screamed holy hell if told to butt out ( :lol: ) of a car so nicotine addicts could have at it illegally.


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## jimhudson (Sep 28, 2010)

Totaly agree that this is a phony post, I dont think a Conductor would risk blowing a high paying job to let a few addicts smoke up a coach that would immediately be discovered upon rrival in the CHI yards if not reported before by a NIMBY anti-smoker! Good analogy comparing this to the Legendary Computer Tower theft fable!


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## DET63 (Sep 29, 2010)

Supposing a conductor, for whatever reason, unilaterally turned a car into a "smoking car," how much would it take to clean up the car (i.e., get rid of cigarette butts—and what would be used for ash trays?—as well as the smell of tobacco smoke that can linger long after the last ciggie is gone)? I can't imagine there wouldn't be at least a few hundred smackers involved.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 29, 2010)

You can bet I would be the first one on the phone to Amtrak if that ever happened. :angry2:

Much progress has been made to rid the country of smoking. As an acceptable part of life in the 50s and early 60s, everyone was forced to tolerate second hand smoke among family and friends. Many family members have died of cancer and heart disease, which I am sure smoking was a contributing factor.

Perhaps someday we can recognize smoking for what it is- a drug habit that needs to be treated 

And now off the soapbox and back to trains


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## zephyr17 (Sep 29, 2010)

I've been on a lot trains where people were removed because they were smoking onboard. Never been on one where the conductor allowed smoking since they generally banned it.

I can almost believe the OP if the train was one of the detours and there were no station stops, which is an unusual situation. However, the other ones claiming the conductors routinely looked the other way, or allowed smoking in the vestibules just flat goes against my experience. Which is smoking is not tolerated, and neither is opening the window if a crew member becomes aware of it.


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## darien-l (Sep 29, 2010)

I was just on the CZ going from DEN to CHI, departing Monday night, and have indeed met a pipe-smoking conductor named Charles, so at least that part of the story is true. He was smoking his pipe outside at one of the smoke stops (Ottumwa, I think).


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## zephyr17 (Sep 29, 2010)

darien-l said:


> I was just on the CZ going from DEN to CHI, departing Monday night, and have indeed met a pipe-smoking conductor named Charles, so at least that part of the story is true. He was smoking his pipe outside at one of the smoke stops (Ottumwa, I think).


Nothing against the rules in smoking outside, though. In fact, in general Amtrak personnel seem to have a higher percentage of smokers and the smoke stops usually feature a lot of them puffing away. As I said, I can almost buy the OPs story if it was on one of the detours where there might not be ANY stops. The thing I really don't believe is common acceptance of smoking on regular runs mentioned by some of the other posters.


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## Bierboy (Sep 29, 2010)

You're feeding the troll....stop posting...


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## guest (Sep 30, 2010)

I have personally been involved with having people thrown off the train for smoking...and have forwarded photos of crew members smoking in the baggage car to management; smoking on all but the AutoTrain is a violation of Federal law!


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## rrdude (Sep 30, 2010)

guest said:


> I have personally been involved with having people thrown off the train for smoking...and have forwarded photos of crew members smoking in the baggage car to management; smoking on all but the AutoTrain is a violation of Federal law!


How can it be a violation of "Federal Law"? I truly am curious. Not doubting you, just find it hard to believe that a federal law exempts Auto Train............


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## frequent_railer (Sep 30, 2010)

Ive been on a train where the porters smelled like cigarette smoke when then walked by, but we were no where near a stop. So I am assuming that they must be smoking on the train somewhere? It would make sence to me that they have a smoking car hidden on the train for the crew and VIP's.


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## PerRock (Sep 30, 2010)

The AutoTrain has a special smoking lounge on it because it does not stop anywhere. That is probably where they 'lit up'.

There is also a stop in the middle of the night where they refuel; the crew could hop off there for a quick one (I believe the crew changes there anyways).

peter


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## jimhudson (Sep 30, 2010)

frequent_railer said:


> Ive been on a train where the porters smelled like cigarette smoke when then walked by, but we were no where near a stop. So I am assuming that they must be smoking on the train somewhere? It would make sence to me that they have a smoking car hidden on the train for the crew and VIP's.


Theres a reason they smell like smoke! Its because "porters" worked the trains back in the day when smoke was everywhere, we all "smoked"! (ie clothing,hair,buildings,trains etc.)

As the previous poster said lots of crew members smoke, but off the trains! And BTW,FYI, they dont like to be refered to as "porters", that went out with Jack Benny and Rochester!  The correct erm is Train Attendant or Sleeping Car or Coach Attendent! (abbreviated here as TA/SCA/CA), also LSA is like the boss of the on board staff, similar to the head waiter in a land based resturant! The conductor is the boss of the train, the engineer drives the train! Hope that helps, the myth ofg smoking on a train has gotten lots of people thrown off in uncomfortable places and even a visit to the cross bar hotel!


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## TVRM610 (Sep 30, 2010)

frequent_railer said:


> Ive been on a train where the porters smelled like cigarette smoke when then walked by, but we were no where near a stop. So I am assuming that they must be smoking on the train somewhere? *It would make sence to me that they have a smoking car hidden on the train* for the crew and VIP's.


I'm sure you meant a car with an area for smoking, like a smoking lounge but It's kinda funny to think about Amtrak trying to hide a train car! The trains are pretty open to visitors! Some Revenue passengers are permitted in every single car on an amtrak train except the baggage car (this is assuming that space is sold in the Trans Dorm) so if they were going to hide it... where would it be? I'm also not sure why it would be a problem for amtrak employees to smoke in the baggage car.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 30, 2010)

rrdude said:


> How can it be a violation of "Federal Law"? I truly am curious. Not doubting you, just find it hard to believe that a federal law exempts Auto Train............


If it works anything like the aviation market you might have one of those purposely entangled agreements where a government body agrees to enforce a carrier's rules as part of its own authority. In the case of airlines this can lead to all sorts of illogical contradictions depending on how the individual carriers structure their own rules, but at least in the case of Amtrak it would be one rule for virtually all rail travel. As for the Auto Train it's probably not that smoking itself is illegal so much as you need to provide substantially separate air supplies and various other considerations. It may be possible that if Amtrak was willing to provide those special modifications on other trains they could have legal smoking wherever they wanted. IIRC US airlines went smoke-free even though several of them had flights where smoking could have been legally allowed. It just became too much of a hassle to selectively allow smoking only on those routes where it was still legal so they went smoke free. And then you have all sorts of claimed loopholes, like the flight deck, where people who are legal to be seated there can apparently smoke all they want if their employer allows it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the locomotive and possibly the baggage car are likewise under Amtrak's discretion in this regard. Speaking of which, I've never actually gone all the way to the front of the train from the inside. I suppose you reach a door to the baggage car and then what? Can anyone open it? Does it require a key?


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## Bigval109 (Sep 30, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Never been on a train where this has happened under any circumstances.
> ...


Let us not forget that little thing called the cellfone with which someone would have called customer service right then and there. I have seen people call while on the train. I heard a person tell CS that they were on the train right now. Also taking into consideration that cig smoke makes me sick I would have most likely called if asked to move for that reason.


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## alanh (Sep 30, 2010)

Smoking on aircraft is covered by 14 CFR 252 and buses by 49 CFR 374.201, but I don't find a similar regulation for rail.

However, Amtrak can still make their own rules about it and put off anyone that doesn't comply. Has anyone actually been arrested for smoking on a train, or just kicked off?


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 30, 2010)

On the Texas eagle/sunset limited back in 08 2 people were kicked off for smoking on the train along with smoking weed. The train stopped in the middle of desert and police were waiting.


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## AlanB (Oct 1, 2010)

daxomni said:


> As for the Auto Train it's probably not that smoking itself is illegal so much as you need to provide substantially separate air supplies and various other considerations. It may be possible that if Amtrak was willing to provide those special modifications on other trains they could have legal smoking wherever they wanted.


Actually Amtrak did provide modifications on all of its long distance trains for a number of years after smoking in general was banned from Amtrak trains. Those modifications went away for two major reasons, abuse by the smokers and a poor design for the Superliner trains.

On the Auto Train, the special rooms are in the cafe cars. This is why one can sometimes catch a hint of a whiff of smoke when in that car despite the best efforts of the design. On the rest of the Superliners, this special room was installed in a coach car. The design of the cafe cars is very different from the AT to the rest of the fleet. In the cafe car if one is bothered by the smoke, while perhaps not totally fair, at least one can leave the car and return to your seat or accommodations. In coach, you can't really walk away from it. And in typical Amtrak fashion, there would on occasion be the Amtrak employee who couldn't be bothered to honor a request from a passenger to move their seat to another car.

However, the major reason that Amtrak did away with these rooms as I mentioned above was abuse. On occasion there would be too many smokers in the room and it would get too smokey. So they'd prop open the door by jamming something into it. That of course then allowed the smoke to travel through the entire car. Additionally, there were a few too many who were slobs. I'm not saying that all were, but more than enough would use their soda cup as an ash tray (instead of what was provided), and then leave it behind. Invariably that cup would fall over and how you have a very sticky mess that is extremely hard to clean.

So thanks to those who abused the privilege, now all smokers pay the price by having to wait until the designated stops.


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## Jean (Oct 1, 2010)

I seem to remember a member of this forum (Konrad?)complaining, about a year ago, that he found an Amtrak staff member smoking in a vestibule aboard a moving train. Surely seats in any area of Amtrak trains are sold on the basis that all the train is non-smoking, so that is what pax are entitled to expect, anytime, no matter what.

Jean


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2010)

AlanB said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > As for the Auto Train it's probably not that smoking itself is illegal so much as you need to provide substantially separate air supplies and various other considerations. It may be possible that if Amtrak was willing to provide those special modifications on other trains they could have legal smoking wherever they wanted.
> ...


"The smokers" did not abuse the lounges. SOME smokers did.

It is not fair to generalize as has been stated on this forum before when people refer to "coach people" or "those traveling with children."

There are "drinkers" that abuse the alchohol sales on the train, but does that mean that all of them do, too? Should they ban alcohol sales?

If they were truly in the business of making money by encouraging ridership, Amtrak could have made minor ventilation changes at minimal cost such as a passive air exchange vents that mearly let outside air flow through the lounge when the train was in motion and eliminating the need for SOME smokers to prop the door open. This would also have discouraged people from camping out in the smoking lounge when the air was too hot or too cold. Both smokers AND nonsmokers could have been made happy.

I don't smoke, but I have a hard time convincing friends who smoke to travel with me on Amtrak when then find out they may not be able to smoke for 4 or 5 hours, so we end up driving.


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## AlanB (Oct 1, 2010)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > So thanks to those who abused the privilege, now all smokers pay the price by having to wait until the designated stops.
> ...


So which part of the part of my post that I quoted above was somehow unclear to you?


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## i-guest (Oct 1, 2010)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni said:
> ...


you should get healthier fiends :lol:


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 1, 2010)

Guest said:


> "The smokers" did not abuse the lounges. SOME smokers did.


_All_ of the people who abused smoking privileges were smokers. There were zero non-smokers abusing those privileges. That's the part that you're apparently missing and that's the part that counts in my view. Smokers are having their rights infringed upon only after they spent _generations_ treating non-smokers poorly. Just because there's an ashtray in the lobby doesn't mean they need to smoke around children and asthmatics. Smokers had their chance to police their own habits and those of each other and they failed miserably. Now it's simply no longer left up to them.



Guest said:


> There are "drinkers" that abuse the alchohol sales on the train, but does that mean that all of them do, too? Should they ban alcohol sales?


If someone drinks to the point that they are infringing on the rights of non-drinkers they get kicked off the train. If a smoker lights up while on board and thus infringes on the rights of non-smokers they _also_ risk getting kicked off. Seems pretty fair to me.



Guest said:


> If they were truly in the business of making money by encouraging ridership, Amtrak could have made minor ventilation changes at minimal cost such as a passive air exchange vents that mearly let outside air flow through the lounge when the train was in motion and eliminating the need for SOME smokers to prop the door open.


If you put passive vents on the Sunset Limited you'd be adding 100+ degree air to the interior. Not to mention that the heat and smoke will eventually start wafting into the adjacent cars. I have some drug addicted friends of my own but it never even crossed my mind that everyone else on the train should suffer a smokey and sweaty ride for their exclusive benefit. I happen to be a drinker myself, but having a glass of Scotch doesn't fill the car with a foul carcinogenic odor or coat the walls with a disgusting sticky film. Should Amtrak decide to ban all alcohol I'll simply go without.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 1, 2010)

:hi: We dont always see eye to eye on things dax, but right on re the smoking/drinking post!!Im an ex-smoker, but tried to consider others when smoking back in the day! But it's still a hideous addiction, nothing really good can be said for it since it harms the user and everyone else! I am not a busy body on trains but I too will call in/report anyone that I see smoking anything on a train, whether its crew or pax,tobacco or other, if the conductor doesnt do his job! (Most do, even the ones that smoke themselves! My favorite conductor on the SAS-FTW route of the Eagles smoked cigars but never on the train ,he kept one in his mouth that he chewed on! I used Nicorette gum on planes (frequent flyer back in the day) and other places the NO Smoking signs went up!Good post!


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## AlanB (Oct 1, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > If they were truly in the business of making money by encouraging ridership, Amtrak could have made minor ventilation changes at minimal cost such as a passive air exchange vents that mearly let outside air flow through the lounge when the train was in motion and eliminating the need for SOME smokers to prop the door open.
> ...


You are quite correct Daxomni.

And to the guest, the smoker rooms had exhaust fans to push the smoke out of the room and the fans actually created a negative pressure flow that helped to keep the amount of smoke that would drift out of the room when the door was opened to a minimum. However, proping the door open for long periods of time was more than the fans could overcome. I also suspect that what some actually did was to stand right in the doorway.

The problem was simply too many people in the room at the same time, such that the fans could not clear the air fast enough. So instead of excersing some restraint and perhaps leaving for a while, again some would open the door in the hope that it would clear the room of smoke faster. It really didn't help clear the air much, but it did impact the entire car.


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## quadrock (Oct 1, 2010)

Not sure if I should admit to this, but it seems that Sleeping Car smokers get slightly better treatment when it comes to smoking on board. I was always asked if I was a smoker by the Sleeping Car Attendant, who would then alert me where/when the smoking stops are. On two occasions, I was allowed to smoke on board. One was on the Capitol Limited from WAS to CHI. The train was running late and I haven't had a cigarette in many hours. The attendant told me to open up the window in the last sleeper vestibule and smoke away, just to do it on the side where there are no tracks in case of oncoming trains. On the second occasion, I was on the Silver Meteor coming from WPB to NWK, where my attendant really surprised me by actually opening up the rear door of the last sleeper and letting me smoke from out the back! She stood by me the entire time and locked the door when I was finished. What was more suprising, is that this was on the NEC, north of Washington, so we were going at a pretty good speed.

I did not pressure, complain, or even ask if I could smoke on either of these 2 occasions...I was offered the option and I took it. This doesn't necessarily comfirm the story of an entire car being converted to a smoking car, but it does show that employees (at least sleeping car attendants) do bend the rules. Both were handsomly tipped my me, so maybe that's the motivation?


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## smoke smeller (Oct 1, 2010)

What about the crew smelling like smoke, when there are no smoke stops, or even stops at all? Are they smoking somewhere? I have smelled it when passing crew members in the train. I think they have a smoking car for the crew.


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## AlanB (Oct 1, 2010)

The crew will sometimes slip into the baggage car to smoke.


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## TVRM610 (Oct 1, 2010)

quadrock said:


> Not sure if I should admit to this, but it seems that Sleeping Car smokers get slightly better treatment when it comes to smoking on board. I was always asked if I was a smoker by the Sleeping Car Attendant, who would then alert me where/when the smoking stops are. On two occasions, I was allowed to smoke on board. One was on the Capitol Limited from WAS to CHI. The train was running late and I haven't had a cigarette in many hours. The attendant told me to open up the window in the last sleeper vestibule and smoke away, just to do it on the side where there are no tracks in case of oncoming trains. On the second occasion, I was on the Silver Meteor coming from WPB to NWK, where my attendant really surprised me by actually opening up the rear door of the last sleeper and letting me smoke from out the back! She stood by me the entire time and locked the door when I was finished. What was more suprising, is that this was on the NEC, north of Washington, so we were going at a pretty good speed.
> 
> I did not pressure, complain, or even ask if I could smoke on either of these 2 occasions...I was offered the option and I took it. This doesn't necessarily comfirm the story of an entire car being converted to a smoking car, but it does show that employees (at least sleeping car attendants) do bend the rules. Both were handsomly tipped my me, so maybe that's the motivation?


Well I don't smoke, a co-worker of mine who travels with me does. You are right, sleeper passengers are given much better treatment about smoking sometimes. In my friends case there was no rule breaking, but he was allowed to step off the train to smoke quickly at stops other than the designated smoke stops. This makes perfect sense of course.


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## quadrock (Oct 2, 2010)

So I'm not the only one ;-)

It just surprised me how they were willing and able to bend so many rules, not that I'm complaining. It probably helped that in both cases, my car was mostly empty.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 2, 2010)

TVRM610 said:


> quadrock said:
> 
> 
> > On two occasions, I was allowed to smoke on board.
> ...


Depends on your viewpoint I suppose. _This_ sleeper passenger would consider on-board smoke breaks to be _worse_ treatment.



TVRM610 said:


> This makes perfect sense of course.


Actually it makes no sense at all. You don't get any additional smoking privileges if you fly first class versus coach. The same basic rules are in place for trains, they're just not always being followed apparently. Which is simply unprofessional and raises the potential for completely unnecessary friction among the passengers and staff.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > quadrock said:
> ...


Dax, you and I often wind up on opposite sides, but this this is right on the money. Well said.


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## Big Iron (Oct 2, 2010)

Looks like smoking rules are as "uniformly" enforced as are many of Amtrak's rules. The SCA in my car, seeing me smoking on the platform, told me she would get me for the smoking stops but be careful to not smoke on the train because the conductor would put me off. Somewhere past Point of Rocks the Conductor got on the PA to say, "To the coach passenger who is smoking in the bathrooms we will catch you and you WILL be put off the train." On the return trip on the Card we were trailing a deadheading Horizon coach. Both the crew (not the operating crew) and the pax used the rear platform to smoke. Heck, the train made a stop short of one of the stations in WVA so one of the diner-lite crew members could run across the street to get some cigs. I guess the benefit of having a new place to smoke onboard caused him to run out.


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## Ryan (Oct 2, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Actually it makes no sense at all. You don't get any additional smoking privileges if you fly first class versus coach. The same basic rules are in place for trains, they're just not always being followed apparently. Which is simply unprofessional and raises the potential for completely unnecessary friction among the passengers and staff.


It's a matter of practicality - a coach attendant has 2 cars with maybe 75 people in them. A sleeper attendant has one car with maybe 20 people in them. It's much easier for the sleeper attendant to manage 2 or 3 people stepping off the train for a quick puff or two than it is for a coach attendant to do that for 10 people at two different doors. There's nothing unprofessional about providing a higher level of service.


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