# Boston to Phoenix Plane and Train?



## JackieTakestheTrain (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi everyone!

So, I was supposed to fly from Boston to Phoenix next month to join my parents on vacation.

Since I took my little 'swan-dive' down the steps at the Ruggles MBTA stop, I have been unable to navigate steps and walk without the assistance of a cane. My prayer is that this is only temporary (please keep me in your thoughts.)

Anyway, I still want to go on the trip, but honestly, the thought of riding coach and changing planes with my bad leg makes me wanna cry just thinking about it! I looked and it would seem no matter what airline I try, I would have a 9-hour ordeal on the planes and that does not include getting to and from airports.

So, I got thinking: What if I split the trip up by *air* and by train? I could fly to Chicago and take the train the rest of the way. On the train, I could stretch my leg and move about if I got too uncomfortable.

I think I could handle flying coach for about 2 hours without much damage to my leg, but when I noticed that the Amtrak train only stops in Flagstaff AZ with a multi-hour bus ride to Phoenix. The bus ride would kill me!

So, before I give up all hope here of a vacation to Phoenix next month, can someone tell me if I am reading the schedule right? Does the train only stop in Flagstaff and would I need a bus the rest of the way? Would it be possible and even remotely better to rent a car in Flagstaff and drive to Phoenix?

I have always wanted to see Arizona..it breaks my heart I may not be able to go. 

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

-- Jackie


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## edding (Mar 16, 2009)

While I haven't done it, it's my understanding that it's relatively easy to rent a car at Flagstaff if you want to drive to Phoenix. It's about a 2.5 hr drive depending where in the Phoenix area you're going. While I'm a big fan of train travel, are you sure you don't want to just take a non-stop plane to Phoenix. Us Airways flies nonstop from Boston.

Ed


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Mar 16, 2009)

Check on flights to Houston or New Orleans and then go to Maricopa AZ, which is about 30 miles south of Phoenix. Watch your days though, as this train only runs three days a week.

Alternately, put your train ride on the east end, and ride to Chicago or Atlanta and then fly from there. Catch is, Atlanta will require a change of trains, New York, Washington, or somewhere in between. Going to Chicago: Maybe a change of trains in Albany, maybe not.


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## edding (Mar 16, 2009)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> Check on flights to Houston or New Orleans and then go to Maricopa AZ, which is about 30 miles south of Phoenix. Watch your days though, as this train only runs three days a week.
> Alternately, put your train ride on the east end, and ride to Chicago or Atlanta and then fly from there. Catch is, Atlanta will require a change of trains, New York, Washington, or somewhere in between. Going to Chicago: Maybe a change of trains in Albany, maybe not.


Maricopa ISN'T Phoenix and unless you can get your parents to pick you up there, it's definitely not easy to get to Phoenix from there. Honestly, if you're really into trains, take it all the way from Boston to LA and then catch a quick flight out of LAX on US Air or Southwest to Phoenix. And then fly home directly on US Air or Southwest to Providence.

My additional 2 cents( making the grand total now 4 cents worth of advice from here in Arid-zona)

Ed


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## GG-1 (Mar 16, 2009)

Aloha

Well I think a different aproach might be in order as the seating in aircraft very bad if you have an injured leg. (unless first is an option) Using the train should cause the least amount of stairs, with the worst step beig from a low level platform. Frankly don't skip the visit that you will regret.

Good Luck

Eric


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## MattW (Mar 16, 2009)

Wait a minute...they seriously don't have Thruway bus from Maricopa to Phoenix??


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## MrFSS (Mar 16, 2009)

MattW said:


> Wait a minute...they seriously don't have Thruway bus from Maricopa to Phoenix??


No bus and we're told its almost impossible to get a cab. It is out in the middle of nowhere.


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## wayman (Mar 16, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Wait a minute...they seriously don't have Thruway bus from Maricopa to Phoenix??
> ...


This is why, despite Maricopa technically being "within the Phoenix Metropolitan Statistical Area" for statistical purposes, it's "more true" to say that Phoenix--both Phoenix the city and Phoenix the region--does not have Amtrak service. Las Vegas, NV, has better Amtrak service because at least Amtrak runs a three-hour bus in the middle of the night to/from Kingman and another four-hour bus to/from LA.

But they don't run a 30 minute bus to/from Maricopa, which is _completely_ disconnected from Phoenix/Tempe/Mesa/Scottsdale. It's like Lamy and Santa Fe, except that it's completely different: 1) Santa Fe is a heckuva lot smaller than Phoenix, so this is less embarrassing; 2) there's currently a private shuttle service between Lamy and Santa Fe, as well as an independent passenger railroad which sometimes has unintentional connections; and 3) RailRunner may eventually cover this gap.


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## edding (Mar 16, 2009)

wayman said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > MattW said:
> ...


I couldn't have said it better myself. Now everyone: Repeat after me: AMTRAK DOES NOT GO TO PHOENIX!


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## MrFSS (Mar 16, 2009)

edding said:


> I couldn't have said it better myself. Now everyone: Repeat after me: AMTRAK DOES NOT GO TO PHOENIX!


AMTRAK DOES NOT GO TO PHOENIX!


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## GG-1 (Mar 16, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> edding said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't have said it better myself. Now everyone: Repeat after me: AMTRAK DOES NOT GO TO PHOENIX!
> ...


Aloha

AMTRAK DOES NOT GO TO PHOENIX! Or Hawaii


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## sky12065 (Mar 16, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> So, before I give up all hope here of a vacation to Phoenix next month, can someone tell me if I am reading the schedule right? Does the train only stop in Flagstaff and would I need a bus the rest of the way? Would it be possible and even remotely better to rent a car in Flagstaff and drive to Phoenix?
> I have always wanted to see Arizona..it breaks my heart I may not be able to go.
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


Jackie, Last July we took the SWC to Flagstaff, rented a car from Hertz and did do the drive between Flagstaff and Phoenix.

Getting the rental was so easy that a caveman who's old enough with a credit card could do it! The agent and your car are ready right at the station when you arrive. As a matter of fact our train was 5 hours late in arriving (around 2AM) and the agent stayed until our arrival. You can also drop it off if you return home from that location. They have a drop box where you can deposit the keys and a return form.

During the drive to Phoenix you'll enjoy viewing the cactus. At least I did since it was my first time viewing them. A local in Flagstaff correct me though saying that what we saw in Arizona was not called cactus. I believe that they called them saguaro and that they can only be found in Arizona. Perhaps someone from the area can correct me if that's wrong!

Whatever you decide, I won't say break-a -leg :unsure: for good luck, but rather have a great trip!


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## sky12065 (Mar 16, 2009)

GG-1 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > edding said:
> ...


You mean I wasn't an Amtrak station in Hawaii where they put a leis around my neck and took this picture of me?


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## henryj (Mar 16, 2009)

If you must take the train, I would go to Flagstaff and rent a car. It's an easy drive to Phoenix and the road is a divided highway. There is nothing at Maricopa and the Eagle/Sunset only runs three times a week. If you took that route your best option would be to detrain at Tucson, rent a car and drive to Phoenix. Greyhound also has service between Tucson and Phoenix, although they don't contractually connect with the train. You would have to make your own way to the bus station. Both these trains arrive at their destinations near Phoenix late at night. Flagstaff near 10PM and Tucson near midnight. It's questionable if you could actually get a rent car at those hours and then if the train is on time. Remember, when you fly into Chicago you are still a long way from Union Station and will have to take a cab or limo. Check with the airports and see what is available. When I flew there from Houston into Midway I took a van to Union station. I made the reservation online before I left. I know any airline or airport has wheel chairs available and electric carts to drive you through the airport. I know of no such services at any train station. You are basically on your own. It would be a nice ride on the train between Chicago and Flagstaff, but at the stations you will have to make do on your own. If you have not ridden a train lately, you cannot immagine how passenger unfriendly it can be if you are handicapped in any way and what an ordeal it can turn out to be. My advice..........FLY.


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## sky12065 (Mar 16, 2009)

henryj said:


> I made the reservation online before I left. I know any airline or airport has wheel chairs available and electric carts to drive you through the airport. I know of no such services at any train station. You are basically on your own. It would be a nice ride on the train between Chicago and Flagstaff, but at the stations you will have to make do on your own. If you have not ridden a train lately, you cannot immagine how passenger unfriendly it can be if you are handicapped in any way and what an ordeal it can turn out to be. My advice..........FLY.


As a many time user of the "H" room on Amtrak, I have to respectfully disagree with what you have stated above. First of all, Jackie stated she uses a cane and not a wheel chair.

At CUS there is a Red Cap to assist those in need of assistance by transporting them to their car. At Flagstaff you are somewhat on your own! But when entering the train, the sleeper or coach attendant would in all likelihood assist Jackie. Even the Red Cap would probably help if needed! When exiting the sleeper or coach the attendant would again help if their reminded shortly before arriving at the station of the need. This is not just the experience of my trip to Flagstaff, but also with my prior trips to Dallas, Reno and Anaheim twice.

When exiting the train at Flagstaff the walk from my sleeper to the entrance to the station was roughly around 20 yards or so and the service counter for the rental was right inside the door. There are also a few benches there in case one need to sit to rest. Once the rental paperwork is completed the walk to the rental parking lot was also about 20 yards. I have a feeling it would not be needed, but if necessary the rental agent might also get the rental and pull it up to the back door which would only be a few steps to walk! I wouldn't suggest that though because the roadway is very narrow and the rental might block vehicles trying to pass through in the opposite direction. That did happened to us!

So as a handicapped person I can say that I haven't experienced any of that "ordeal" you speak of, except for one minor incident in CUS a number of years ago, and that Jackie should just enjoy the adventure and not worry about the unlikely chances of any "ordeals!"


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## edding (Mar 17, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > So, before I give up all hope here of a vacation to Phoenix next month, can someone tell me if I am reading the schedule right? Does the train only stop in Flagstaff and would I need a bus the rest of the way? Would it be possible and even remotely better to rent a car in Flagstaff and drive to Phoenix?
> ...


Saguaros are only found in the Sonoran Desert ( you wouldn't see any in Flagstaff at all-- probably not until after Prescott) and, while I could be wrong I think there are Saguaros all the way into Mexico ( hence the name Sonoran Desert). And what would anyone in Flagstaff know about cacti anyway. Yes, believe me, we ( Phoenix desert dwellers) call Saguaros' cactus.

And thank you, all those that repeated after me.

Ed


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Mar 17, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hi everyone!
> So, I was supposed to fly from Boston to Phoenix next month to join my parents on vacation.


Yes, I know Mariopa is not Phoenix, and is about 30 miles south of Phoenix. However that is 30 miles in Arozona, not across the New York metro area. I was working on the assumption that her parents could meet here in Maricopa. Maricopa is a lot closer than Flagstaff, and a bus ride with a bad leg can be miserable.


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## tp49 (Mar 17, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hi everyone!
> Anyway, I still want to go on the trip, but honestly, the thought of riding coach and changing planes with my bad leg makes me wanna cry just thinking about it! I looked and it would seem no matter what airline I try, I would have a 9-hour ordeal on the planes and that does not include getting to and from airports.
> 
> Any ideas out there?


I fly a lot. More than I'd prefer. I've flown with a torn knee and a torn shoulder (thankfully not at the same time.) I'd suggest seeing if you can get seated in either a bulkhead row or in the exit row. Reason being is first class legroom at a coach price. If flying Southwest who doesn't have assigned seating they will preboard you if you are using a cane and both the bulkhead and exit would probably be available to you. Ground staff is usually very good in dealing with this type of situation.

Also if connceting at most major airports arrangements with ground staff can be made to have you taken either by wheelchair or on one of those golf cart like things (that have almost run me over more than once in many hubs) to take you from gate to gate. Also, as another poster suggested there is a non-stop from BOS to PHX.

You could also Amtrak it from BOS to BWI Airport rail station and fly nonstop on SWA to PHX.


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## sky12065 (Mar 17, 2009)

edding said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > JackieTakestheTrain said:
> ...


Ed, thanks for pointing out about there Saguaros not being found in Flagstaff. I was aware of that and probably should have indicated the same so as to not give what might have been a misleading impression that they were there. I do remember ceasing to see the Saguaros around the general Prescott area as I was returning to Flagstaff from Mesa.

So as to not make more confusion I should mention that I did not travel from Flagstaff to Mesa. We first drove from Flagstaff to LA to visit our son and attend a convention in Anaheim. We then drove directly to Mesa, saw a lot of Saguaros along the way and stayed for about 6 days at the Carriage Manor Resort, explored the area then returned to Flagstaff.

BTW, I must have hit someone in Flagstaff that knew a little something about cacti since that how I learned about the Saguaros!


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## Joel N. Weber II (Mar 17, 2009)

henryj said:


> Remember, when you fly into Chicago you are still a long way from Union Station and will have to take a cab or limo.


The El covers most of the trip, but on the Union Station end the El is a few blocks away, and I'm not sure how direct the connection at the airport really is. I'm also not sure how much the El has done for accessibility.


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## wayman (Mar 17, 2009)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, when you fly into Chicago you are still a long way from Union Station and will have to take a cab or limo.
> ...


I think which Chicago airport you fly into also makes a big difference. I've never tried to get from either directly to Union Station, but from experience living in Chicago I can say a trip to Midway by car is a heckuvalot shorter than a trip to O'Hare; and Midway is a far simpler airport to navigate through once you're on the ground there. Choose Midway if you're going to fly into Chicago is my advice.


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## henryj (Mar 17, 2009)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, when you fly into Chicago you are still a long way from Union Station and will have to take a cab or limo.
> ...


Joel, I can answer that. With a bum leg and such you probably should avoid public transportation, particularly the El which entails climbing and descending stairs. The station on the loop is also a long walk from CUS for a person with a cane. And it is not apparent which direction Union Station is when you get off the El unless you are a long time Chicago resident. In contrast the van or limo service will drop you right at the front door to CUS and the cost is very reasonable vs a taxi. I had some time in Chicago before my train so I went up in the Sears Tower and then walked down to the El just to see if I could have used it. I could, but with luggage and such I would still prefer the limo service. As a reply to "Sky" thanks for the good information on the rent cars. It's good to know that they will actually meet you at the train regardless of the time it arrives. Sorry I portrayed a tone like it's an ordeal to take the train. It isn't. But it's not anything like flying either. I just wanted to point out some things to think about before booking the trip. If you can handle these then by all means take the train, it's a wonderful trip and lots of fun.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Mar 17, 2009)

Everyone:

Thanks for the great suggestions -- including the non-stops from Boston.

I am going to the doctor today so we will see what he says. I think what worries me about flying any real distance is that I get pins and needles in my leg and swelling in my knee when sit too long in one spot. Being trapped on a plane and not being able to move around (or maybe even stand up and walk) for a hours at time is not realistic -- not at this point.

I find at work I can go about 2 hours before I need to some major shifting or getting up all together...

So, I guess I have some mulling to do! I am not about to give up yet on going!


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## wayman (Mar 17, 2009)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone!
> ...


If her parents could meet her in Maricopa, that would work; but that's the _only_ way Maricopa would work. No bus line, and if you go to Google Maps and search for "car rental maricopa az", it will give you a dozen or so dots--Avis, Hertz, etc--which are all 30 miles north in Phoenix. So, the only way to rent a car in Maricopa is to first go to Phoenix <_<

So it really comes down to a few questions:

1, can your parents pick you up in Maricopa at the the time the Sunset arrives there, and drop you off again for your departure?

2, can you schedule your trip around the Sunset's schedule (since it runs only three days a week in each direction)?

If the answers to 1 & 2 are both yes, then taking the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited from Chicago to Maricopa is an option.

3, are you comfortable driving a rental car, and does renting a car for the time you'll be visiting your parents sound like a viable option?

If the answer to 3 is yes, then the Southwest Chief from Chicago to Flagstaff is an option.

If both are possible, then you have a few more questions:

1, would you prefer your parents picking you up or renting a car and driving for a few hours each way?

2, which train sounds more fun?

3, which train has more affordable tickets, as especially if you're taking a sleeper there will probably be price differences?

I've never taken the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited (but have taken the Southwest Chief); I can vouch for the Chief's scenery being pretty nice, and have heard it's better than the Sunset; but you'll be on the Texas Eagle from Chicago to San Antonio, and I know almost nothing about what that route looks like. The other consideration is that the Texas Eagle has a Cross Country Cafe instead of a full Dining Car, and does not carry a Sightseer Lounge; you'll pick up a Dining Car and Sightseer Lounge in San Antonio and have them for the second half of the ride to Maricopa. You won't have to change cars in San Antonio; your car will just be transferred from one train to the other while you are sleeping (unless you want to wake up and watch it happen). With the Southwest Chief, you'll have a full Dining Car and Sightseer Lounge all the way from Chicago to Flagstaff. The question of whether the Cross Country Cafe is "good", "bad", "evil", "ok", "as bad as we'd feared", "surprisingly not so bad as we'd feared", or many other things has been discussed in dozens of threads, and opinions vary; the only thing people seem to agree on is "the quality of the crew can make a tremendous difference". Also, the Texas Eagle has its own website and theme song, but the Southwest Chief has a far more distinguished history when one looks back into the heritage railroad hey-day of passenger travel


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## AlanB (Mar 17, 2009)

wayman said:


> The other consideration is that the Texas Eagle has a Cross Country Cafe instead of a full Dining Car, and does not carry a Sightseer Lounge; you'll pick up a Dining Car and Sightseer Lounge in San Antonio and have them for the second half of the ride to Phoenix.


Actually the Eagle is still running with a Sightseer Lounge at last report and cafe service on the lower level. The CCC is functioning as a full diner with no cafe service.


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## wayman (Mar 17, 2009)

AlanB said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > The other consideration is that the Texas Eagle has a Cross Country Cafe instead of a full Dining Car, and does not carry a Sightseer Lounge; you'll pick up a Dining Car and Sightseer Lounge in San Antonio and have them for the second half of the ride to Phoenix.
> ...


Wow, I cannot keep straight the status of the CCC and Lounges on this train. It seems like it changes every few months! "CCC as full diner, plus a Sightseer Lounge" sounds like the best possible situation (given the current shortage of actual Dining Cars...).


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## sunchaser (Mar 17, 2009)

Jackie,

If it was me, I would much prefer a train vs plane for several reasons:

If you get room 'H' or maybe a lower level roomette, you could stretch out/elevate your bum knee/leg, making the ride more comfy. (If you have any trouble getting around, get room "H" rather than a roomette, it has bathroom!)

The Sleeping Car Attendant should take pretty good care of you, including bringing you your meals, etc. Maybe even setting up the lower bed for you during the day, if you need it.

It actually may be more relaxing & better than flying because you would not have to figure out how to prop your leg up if needed, or walk too far for the bathroom.

Years ago I had a broken leg with a cast from hip to toe. I would never had considered flying like that. I have one word that comes to mind- turbulence!

If you're able to navigate stairs, you may want to consider a regular bedroom. They have a complete bathroom w/shower, a sofa you could stretch out on & a chair as well. That may be cheaper than bedroom 'H'.

So, I would say even though it will take more time to get there by train, I think it would be better for your injury & the healing process to take the train. I think it may lower your stress level because it would be so much easier to make you comfortable on the train, vs on the plane where there's alot less space available. So much for my two cents. Hope you heal fast!!! 

Sunchaser


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## tp49 (Mar 17, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Everyone:
> Thanks for the great suggestions -- including the non-stops from Boston.
> 
> I am going to the doctor today so we will see what he says. I think what worries me about flying any real distance is that I get pins and needles in my leg and swelling in my knee when sit too long in one spot. Being trapped on a plane and not being able to move around (or maybe even stand up and walk) for a hours at time is not realistic -- not at this point.
> ...


With that in mind if you fly the bulkhead seat on the asile is the one you want. Gives you the ability to stand up when need be and move up and down the asile without you having to climb over anyone and it will allow you to stretch your leg out more than you would in any other location on the plane.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2009)

I wouldn't think of trying that by train. Phoenix happens to have a convenient downtown airport. Airlines take care of crippled people pretty well, actually. Older airports back east are not necessarily disabled friendly, so think about the logistics of Logan vs. Providence. I know for a fact for example, that Newark is a nightmare for the disabled.

Phoenix is the largest city in the US unserved by rail.

Flagstaff, by the way is VERY cold. I don't mean cool, I mean cold. Be prepared. If you do decide to visit folks by rail have them meet you in Flag and do Northern Arizona, Grand Canyon monument valley and the Rez, which is way more interesting than metro Phoenix, anyway.

A Saguaro is indeed a "real" cactus and the Saguaro blossom is the state flower and the cactus wren which nests in Saguaros is the state bird.


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## abqdave (Mar 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Jackie,If it was me, I would much prefer a train vs plane for several reasons:
> 
> If you get room 'H' or maybe a lower level roomette, you could stretch out/elevate your bum knee/leg, making the ride more comfy. (If you have any trouble getting around, get room "H" rather than a roomette, it has bathroom!)
> 
> ...


If you do take the train, I think Sunchaser gives good advice. I was considering taking my elderly mom (who uses a cane) back from Florida to Massachusetts on the train this Spring (she usually flys). However, after doing a few long distance trips myself, I have reservations. At times track conditions can be very rough and can throw you from wall to wall. If she, or you, were walking...to the dining car, to the bathroom...you could get knocked down. So Sunchasers advice about getting a room with a bathroom is a good idea. Someone else also mentioned the attendant in the sleeper car may be able to bring meals to the room. That eliminates the second need to be out of your room walking about. If all of that happened, I think the train is the way to go.


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## Alice (Mar 18, 2009)

By now you've got lots of good advice for both plane and train.

I'd say either way would work fine so take the trip however you are most comfortable (emphasis on "take the trip!").

If you can use something that makes it obvious you have a mobility issue (such as your cane even if you no longer need it), you'll get more consideration wherever you are and however you travel. Just be nice to the people who say they admire you for traveling with such difficulties! If you look friendly as you travel through the airport/station, make eye contact, and smile, there'll be more than you want.

Oh yes, speaking from experience when using crutches, a brightly colored cane that attracts a lot of attention is less likely to get kicked out from under you in crowds than one of those tasteful black or brown ones.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Mar 19, 2009)

Question about the Superliners: What are the differences between the Lower Level seats and the Superliner roomettes?

The only Superliner I have ever been on was EONS ago...and it had steps, which I can't navigate real well these days. As I recall, the restroom was down the hall.

Are there any pictures or diagrams online someplace where I can see the configurations?

And why do the lower level seats cost more than the regular seats -- in fact, I noticed that in some cases the lower level seats were only about $10-$20 less than the Superliner. roomettes?

Thanks!

-- Jackie


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## p&sr (Mar 19, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Question about the Superliners: What are the differences between the Lower Level seats and the Superliner roomettes?
> The only Superliner I have ever been on was EONS ago...and it had steps, which I can't navigate real well these days. As I recall, the restroom was down the hall.


The lower level seats are just seats. Same idea as riding in Coach (because they are). People like them because you can avoid the stairs (unless you want to visit the Dining Car or the Lounge). Restroom access is certainly easy. There may still be a couple of steps getting on board the Train, depending what kind of platform your station uses.

Compared to a roomette, a) they don't turn into beds and b ) there is no private compartment. Just coach seats which happen to be in a fairly small room on the lower level.


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## AlanB (Mar 19, 2009)

Jackie,

You can view the layouts of the Superliner cars by clicking here.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi Everyone.

I have been silent on this thread because I was hoping for a miracle re: my leg and this trip but no miracle. I have 2-3 months of physical therapy ahead of me, but good news that my physical therapy seems to be working. I don't wobble so much when I walk! 

Flying is definitely out because of possible blood clots and swelling, but I can drive and take the train.

So I found out some additional information. I found that I would actually need to get to Scottsdale AZ, not Phoenix. I sense that these two places are close, but not sure how close.

Would anyone have any suggestions for getting a rental car at Flagstaff to Scottsdale or a sense of how long of car ride this would be? I am opting not to take a bus because of the confinement in the seats.

If I can find the moola for the sleeper cars ( a big *if*) then this trip may not be a off the table after all..

I am set to leave this Saturday..Lord willing.

Any advice appreciated.

Thank you.

-- Jackie

p.s. I am also planning on calling to make the reservation to inquire about the accessible bedroom if it is available. Thanks for that suggestion!


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## MrFSS (Apr 9, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hi Everyone.
> I have been silent on this thread because I was hoping for a miracle re: my leg and this trip but no miracle. I have 2-3 months of physical therapy ahead of me, but good news that my physical therapy seems to be working. I don't wobble so much when I walk!
> 
> Flying is definitely out because of possible blood clots and swelling, but I can drive and take the train.
> ...


Scottsdale is a suburb of Phoenix. See this *MAP*.

Google Maps says it is about a 2 hour drive from Flagstaff. See this *MAP*.

I think I've heard others on the forum say there is a Hertz facility at the Flagstaff Amtrak Station. You could call Hertz and ask.


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## sunchaser (Apr 9, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hi Everyone.
> I have been silent on this thread because I was hoping for a miracle re: my leg and this trip but no miracle. I have 2-3 months of physical therapy ahead of me, but good news that my physical therapy seems to be working. I don't wobble so much when I walk!
> 
> Flying is definitely out because of possible blood clots and swelling, but I can drive and take the train.
> ...



Jackie,

Try this link-

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?1c=Flagstaff&...sdale&2s=AZ

Maquest says it's 150 miles, 2 hour 18 min estimate on travel. That seems like it may be a long time, but only you would know if thats too long.

I hope you are able to get the accessible room! I think that would be the best room for you if you're not steady enough to go up the stairs for a bedroom. If you can manage the stairs (you would only need to use them on boarding & departing)

the bedroom has a shower built into the bathroom. The accessible on a Superliner has a toilet & sink, but the shower is nearby on the same level. Have a safe & fun trip!!!!


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## sky12065 (Apr 9, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Everyone.
> ...


There definitely is station service by Hertz at Flagstaff. My wife and I used it last year and I must say that it couldn't have been an easier process. IIRC it was about a 20-30 yards walk from the train to the Hertz counter and about an equal distance to where the rentals are parked.

We made an advanced reservation and they had the car ready and waiting for us upon arrival. We were about 5 hours late in arriving (around 2AM) and Hertz had a person available until the train arrived despite the late arrival.

When returning the car before boarding for the trip back, it was a simple matter of parking the car, filling out a short form and dropping it along with the keys into a drop box.

Would we do it again? Absolutely!

BTW, I found the drive between Flagstaff and Mesa (just east of Scottsdale) an enjoyable ride and I thought it went fairly quickly!


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## wayman (Apr 9, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hi Everyone.So I found out some additional information. I found that I would actually need to get to Scottsdale AZ, not Phoenix. I sense that these two places are close, but not sure how close.


Close like Cambridge and Boston (except there's no river separating them). Scottsdale is actually on the side closer to Flagstaff, though the difference is negligible.

Everyone else has ably answered your other questions, so I will simply add that it's wonderful to hear you're recovering well! Good luck with your reservations!


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## sky12065 (Apr 9, 2009)

wayman said:


> Scottsdale is actually on the side closer to Flagstaff, though the difference is negligible.


Looking at a Google map you might get the impression that Scottsdale is closer to Flagstaff than Phoenix, but I believe that Phoenix is actually closer. You even have to drive through the northern end of Phoenix when leaving Scottsdale before you reach I-17 heading north to Flagstaff. However, I do agree that the difference is negligible when comparing it to the overall distance to Flagstaff.

Just as a side note, once you're on I-17 heading north, MO is that the drive is a bit mundane. But eventually the drive becomes more scenic and enjoyable as you get further north!


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## edding (Apr 9, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > Scottsdale is actually on the side closer to Flagstaff, though the difference is negligible.
> ...


While a side note, yes Phoenix is probably literally closer to Flag, but that's only because they leap-frogged and annexed all the way out to Anthem to get the tax dollars from a development and discount shopping mall. With anywhere in the Phoenix metro area( which is HUGE geographically), it depends on where you're going as to what's closer to where and how best to get there. Most likely your best bet will be I-17 south from Flag( fastest but not most scenic) to loop 101 east(south of Happy valley rd exit.) If you decide to drive and would like directions from someone who lives in the Valley, just let me know.

Ed


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## sky12065 (Apr 9, 2009)

edding said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > wayman said:
> ...


Thanks Ed! I had a feeling that you might chime in if you've been checking posts.

As for me, I won't be needing any directions since the only occasion where I might be in Phoenix is for an Elks National Convention in 2011 and should we choose to go, it probably won't be through Flagstaff. We might take the TE to El Paso or Tucson and take a rental from there. I say El Paso because that's the end of a 2 zone AGR trip from Albany. Who knows this far out?

Anyway, stay cool this summer and say hello to the Monsoon for me when it arrives! If you remember my mentioning, the Monsoon hit Mesa real bad just a few hours after our arrival last July!


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Apr 11, 2009)

Good Morning everyone!

Well, in 3 hours I will be on my way to South Station and on my way to Chicago and then Flaggstaff via the LSL and the Southwest Chief!

I am so excited, I could scream...

Turned out I could get the accessible bedrooms all the way if I changed my date from returning one day versus the next day. I told my boss this yesterday when she asked about my vacation plans and I told her I was still not going (that was Friday am), she asked how much longer it would take by train if I could get the accessible room and I told her just one and she told me to go for it!

Of course, I am taking work with me on my vacation, but small price to pay for not sitting around moping around the house next week wishing I were someplace sunny and warm.

As it would turn out, I am getting a bonus trip to NYC -- with the busing between Albany and Boston, I opted to take the #48 from Albany back to NYC, spend the night there and head back to Boston the next morning.

I have to say that the Amtrak reservation agent was *excellent* helping me with getting all the accessible rooms and answering my questions. She even recommended that I get accessible seating in regular coach on the Albany-NYC-Boston legs of my trip to be closer to the train doors (something I didn't think about!)

One little downside, I will spend Easter day in the lounge in Chicago... maybe the Easter Bunny will stop by and bring me a basket! 

Will definitely post more when I return from my travels.

I have to go pack 

Thanks again to all of you for your advice and encouragement!


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## sunchaser (Apr 11, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Good Morning everyone!
> Well, in 3 hours I will be on my way to South Station and on my way to Chicago and then Flaggstaff via the LSL and the Southwest Chief!
> 
> I am so excited, I could scream...
> ...


Jackie,

That's so awesome that you were able to get the accessible bedroom!!  I think you will be way more comfy! Please post your trip as soon you can, I for one want to hear how it works out for you! Have a good trip! Sorry you will be at the the lounge on Easter....I'll be thinking about you, though, already on your trip!


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.

Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)

Also, I will write about my trip in the Travelogue and if anyone is interested in photos of the accessible bedrooms on the LSL and the Southwest Chief, I took some and they turned out very well. I would be happy to email to anyone thinking of using those rooms on those trains.

It all ended too soon ...but it was worth every mile!


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## p&sr (Apr 21, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hey everyone! Just wanted to report that I am back... a spectacular trip...


Great news! Looking forward to reading your Trip Report!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 21, 2009)

p&sr said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone! Just wanted to report that I am back... a spectacular trip...
> ...


1500 words by tomorrow if it pleases...


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## sky12065 (Apr 21, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.
> 
> Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)
> 
> ...


I too will be in the H room of the LSL & SWC in a little over two months. Did you carve your initials anywhere in the room so I can tell if I got the same room(s)? :lol:

Don't forget to take the survey and enter the sweepstakes if it's not too late!

You can email your comments to Amtrak about your trip experiences. Click here: *Contact Us*


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## sunchaser (Apr 21, 2009)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.
> 
> Overall, it was a spectular trip..even with my bad leg. I had many,many, MANY fantastic Amtrak staff helping me throughout -- I intend to write a letter (any ideas who to send to?)
> 
> ...


Glad is was a good trip for you!!!!   I was wondering how it went.. waiting patiently for your trip report!!!!


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## birdy (Apr 22, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone!Just wanted to report that I am back from my trip to Phoenix/Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited with my bonus trip on one of the Northeast regional trains between NYC and Boston.
> ...


Please address your compliments to the Amtrak attendants to the Hon. John McCain and the Hon. Jon Kyl. Suggest they support HSR from Phoenix to San Diego. Ask them why Phoenix is the largest city in the country without Amtrak service.


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## edding (Apr 22, 2009)

birdy said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > JackieTakestheTrain said:
> ...


Glad you had a great trip! You left Phoenix just in time -- the heat's back( flirting with 100). Although this actually isn't that early and hopefully we'll get a short reprieve before the 6 mths of He** descends. While writing the Arizona Senators is a good idea in theory, it's unfortunately the literal definition of "falling on deaf ears". I'd write Harry Mitchell ( my representative and a sane voice in the desert wilderness)_ or Ed Pastor. Glad you had a good safe trip.

Ed


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## jmbgeg (Apr 22, 2009)

There has been discussion as to why Amtrak does not have Amtrak service. What is the story on Phoenix?


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## amtrakwolverine (Apr 22, 2009)

phoenix did have rail service at one time



> Amtrak's reliance on freight railroads also has caused its service elimination. Passenger rail service was entirely discontinued to Phoenix, Arizona, in 1997, after the Union Pacific Railroad, which owns the tracks that served Phoenix, announced that it was abandoning the right of way. Amtrak did not have the funds to maintain the trackage. Today, the city proper is served only by Thruway Motorcoach, although Amtrak rail service is available about 37 miles (60 km) to the south in the rural town of Maricopa (Phoenix passengers also travel often to Tucson or Flagstaff by car or Greyhound bus to pick up those Amtrak trains which continue to make stops in those cities).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Gaps_in_service


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## George Harris (Apr 22, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> phoenix did have rail service at one time
> 
> 
> > Amtrak's reliance on freight railroads also has caused its service elimination. Passenger rail service was entirely discontinued to Phoenix, Arizona, in 1997, after the Union Pacific Railroad, which owns the tracks that served Phoenix, announced that it was abandoning the right of way. Amtrak did not have the funds to maintain the trackage. Today, the city proper is served only by Thruway Motorcoach, although Amtrak rail service is available about 37 miles (60 km) to the south in the rural town of Maricopa (Phoenix passengers also travel often to Tucson or Flagstaff by car or Greyhound bus to pick up those Amtrak trains which continue to make stops in those cities).
> ...


As is frequently the case, Wiki does not have it right. The following I put in an earlier thread:

This discussion comes up every few months. Go back to a thread in mid 2008 titled The Sun Never Sets in Phoenix.

I said this at that time:

Other than the date of change, which I really don't know the rest is somewhat less than accurate, which seems to be the norm for Wiki. Here are the facts:

The southern line, which UP calls the Gila subdivision was the original Southern Paciifc mainline. The loop through Phoenix was built much later, in the 1920's, and was always at best a secondary main built primarily so through passenger trains could serve Phoenix. It ran from Wellton at milepost 770.7 (zero at San Francisco) to Picacho. At Picacho the milepost is 979.7 on the Phoenix line but only 936.7 via the main through Maricopa. Thus, the route is 166.0 miles on the main and 209.0 miles through Phoenix, an additional distance of 43.0 miles. Phoenix yard is at milepost 907.0, so this 209 mile length represents 137.3 miles west of Phoenix with almost nothing there and 72.7 miles east of Phoenix through Tempe and a few other places.

The Phoenix line was all jointed rail with an automatic block signal system with semaphores. Generally the passenger train speed limit was 60 mph, although some parts east of Phoenix allowed 70 mph. Pictures I have seen of the line west show the rail as being 113 lb, a section unique to the SP and long obsolete and out of production. By the early 90's this line was needing major rail relay, major tie replacement, and signal system upgrades. The decision was make to concetrate on the 70 miles east of Phoenix in order to maintain freigth access to the city rather than attempt to keep the entire 209 miles up for 60 mph service.

To the best of my knowledge the track is all still in place, but not all in service, and the signal system is likewise all in place, but likely not functional for most or the line west.

With the same weasel words, here is the current status of the line as given in the employee timetable, going from west to east.

Yuma at mp 732.7

Wellton at mp 770.7, west end of Phoenix Sub.

mp 770.7 to 802.8: "Roll Industrial Lead" 20 mph - restricted speed

mp 802.8 to 854.0: Out of service

mp 854.0 to 904.8: 25 mph - may have slow orders to less

mp 904.8 to 905.6: 20 mph

mp 905.6 to 906.7: 15 mph (Phoenix passenger station at 906.0)

mp 906.7 to 907.9: 20 mph

mp 907.9 to 913.6: 25 mph

mp 913.6 to 916.5: 20 mph

mp 916.5 to 920.8: 40 mph

mp 920.8 to 922.0: 25 mph

mp 922.0 to 924.2: 40 mph

mp 924.2 to 957.0: 60 mph

mp 957.0 to 963.5: 40 mph

mp 963.5 to 975.6: 60 mph

mp 975.6 to 979.3: 45 mph

mp 979.3 to 979.7: 25 mph

Summarizing: For the 135.3 miles west of the Phoenix station, 51.2 miles is out of service and the remainder has a speed limit of 25 mph or less. But, *it is all still there.*

Wild guess: about $200 to $300 million to get the Phoenix line west to the point that it could carry the Sunset at 60 mph or 79 mph. (The difference in cost for getting it in condition for 60 mph and for 79 mph would be next to nothing.) There is no way that it makes sense for Amtrak or the state of Arizona to spend that kind of money for a three times a week train, and for sure it makes no sense for UP to spend it. The additional 43 miles and going through a major urban area is why it also make no sense for UP to increase the Sunset Route capacity by upgrading the Phoenix line for part of a directional running system with the Gila line instead of what they are doing, which is adding a second main along their original main line through a mostly unpopulated desert. Now, if it was decided to operate multiple passenger trains per day between Arizona and Los Angeles, that could change the picture.


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