# Use points now or use them after January?



## BALtoNYPtraveler (Oct 13, 2015)

I looked over the new program specifications, and also used the point earning and point redeeming estimator. It looks like the new system will benefit some (maybe not all.) I think it makes more sense than zone restrictions.

Anyway, an example is that a one-way ticket from BAL to NYP or vice versa is about $52 at the cheapest, generally, and would cost 4,000 points now as I understand it. But the estimator said it would be 1,794 points under the new system. So it appears that I'll get more rides for my points after January. Let me know if I am misunderstanding something.

The estimator also said that I would earn about 260 points for buying that theoretical $52 ticket. You can play with the estimator and put any ticket price you want in there, like $100 or any amount. For the $52, it's showing 104 points earned (2 points per dollar) plus 156 points earned for using the world card (that's 3 points per every dollar of Amtrak purchases, so that's $52 times 3 to equal 156.) Add it all together and it's 260 total.

Of course, they didn't even factor in double points which are in effect some of the time but not all of the time. Anyone else having fun with the points estimator? Do I understand it correctly - that for some of us, benefits will increase after January since we won't have to use a "one ticket value fits all" model to get a free ticket within our zone? 1,794 points sounds better than 4,000 points to me.

No one addressed one of my previous questions, though. In the current system, can the points be used to book a trip anytime, or must they be booked well in advance? For example, a trip two months from now would most likely cost less than one for tomorrow. Can 4,000 points be used to book a one-way in my zone for either scenario?


----------



## jebr (Oct 13, 2015)

Tickets can be booked up until the time of departure for an AGR award, so long as the train is not sold out.

AGR redemptions under the new system are redeemed at the value fare level, not saver. No passenger discounts will apply other than the child fare.


----------



## BALtoNYPtraveler (Oct 13, 2015)

Hey, that's pretty good to know. Of course ,being a penny pincher as we all are (we wouldn't be using the AGR if we didn't care about being frugal)  I'll probably save the points up for a future trip so I can get more rides for the points. But it's good to know that for a while, if I wanted to use the points for any fare and there's room, I could get on the train and go. Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## BALtoNYPtraveler (Oct 13, 2015)

Oh, I missed that point. Value fare level. I'll have to look at it all over again. I was basing my thesis on the saver fare being about $52 for my purposes. I think the saver is about $75 or so. Oh well, not a big deal, and I'm happy to get anything free if I can rediscover my love for traveling, specifically on the train, which I've done far too little of - even in the past when I used to do it more! It's been a long hiatus for me but I'm glad to be back on the rails and I look forward to finding any excuses possible to "need" to travel! (or just want to!) :giggle:

I am Amtrak's dream customer, or at least their marketing department's prime target: Someone who loves to travel but simply got out of the habit and mindset of train travel, but is now thrilled to travel more often, in part motivated by thinking I'm getting some perks and a free trip here and there!


----------



## dlagrua (Oct 25, 2015)

I have studied the new AGR point system a bit and this is how I see it.

Travel in a zone that requires a train connection will require more points

Trips that depart at the beginning of a zone and arrive at the end of another zone will require more points

Longer trips in the same zone will require more points

Frequent rail passengers will be able to accrue slightly more points with the BOA World Card

Getting to "select" level will be easier with the World Card but that has been altered to give you less of a benefit.

Obviously you have to pay $79/yr for these benefits

Trips where you just cross over the border into a new zone (of what was formerly a 2 zone trip)* may *in some instances require less points.

Three train trips in any zone or combination of zones will require many more points.

As fares keep rising so will the points requirement. Pensions, Retirement benefits and Salaries are rising not so this is a concern to many rail passengers.

IMO, the new system is workable but in most cases it represents a downgrade.

Is my analysis correct here?


----------



## Eric S (Oct 25, 2015)

I don't think that it's possible to make a blanket statement that travel of a certain type will definitely require more points. If such a trip is booked when fares are low, it will require fewer points than if it is booked when fares are high. If the points required to book the lowest fare offered are more than is currently required, then the trip requires more points than it does now. But if not, then the trip could (depending on the fare when booked) require fewer points.

(

Yes, it's true that most really long trips that can currently be strung together within a certain number of zones (as they currently exist) will require more points. But a more typical trip, going on the most direct route from A to B - well, the answer to whether that trip requires more points is more of "yes, no, maybe" than a definitive "yes."


----------



## me_little_me (Oct 25, 2015)

dlagrua said:


> I have studied the new AGR point system a bit and this is how I see it.
> 
> Frequent rail passengers will be able to accrue slightly more points with the BOA World Card
> 
> Obviously you have to pay $79/yr for these benefits


With the world card and paying $79/year, you can possibly get a lot more points as airline, hotel and cruise travel get you double points so if you travel a lot, this can add up. For example, we just took a car trip in September and spent about $750 on hotels. 1500 points instead of 750. Similarly, we'll be taking another trip via car and train next month and expect to spend about the same. you also get those annual coupons.

The free BoA card gets you same points as Chase card albeit in the future those points will be worth less. But the card itself is more comparable to Chase.

Other than that, I agree with you.



Eric S said:


> I don't think that it's possible to make a blanket statement that travel of a certain type will definitely require more points. If such a trip is booked when fares are low, it will require fewer points than if it is booked when fares are high. If the points required to book the lowest fare offered are more than is currently required, then the trip requires more points than it does now. But if not, then the trip could (depending on the fare when booked) require fewer points.
> 
> (
> 
> Yes, it's true that most really long trips that can currently be strung together within a certain number of zones (as they currently exist) will require more points. But a more typical trip, going on the most direct route from A to B - well, the answer to whether that trip requires more points is more of "yes, no, maybe" than a definitive "yes."


From my checking, almost assuredly the new rules mean more points if it involves a sleeper even on one-train "single zone" trips. More than that, one has to plan based on price, not just availability and, independent of penalties, on fare increases for changes that must be made when fares go higher.


----------



## tricia (Oct 25, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > I have studied the new AGR point system a bit and this is how I see it.
> ...


More points are almost certainly required for two people traveling together: Under the current AGR system, two people traveling in the same roomette or bedroom costs the same number of points as one traveler. When the new system kicks in, that second person will cost additional points.


----------



## BCL (Oct 25, 2015)

tricia said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > dlagrua said:
> ...


It's going to vary depending on length and time of booking. I found that two traveling EMY-SEA in a roomette for a random day next week would be less than the current 15,000 points. LAX-SEA was over for two, but under for one.


----------



## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 25, 2015)

For someone as I who lives in a non-Amtrak market(Nashville), the new AGR may be a little easier to use although I mainly travel based on Amsnag lower prices for sleeper accommodations. Until now I have not redeemed any AGR points for so with the new no fee BoA AGR card bonus I had 66,000+ points accumulated. So I decided to redeem points now and leave points for after Jan 24. I purchased lowest cost available per Amsnag bedroom sleepers NOL to CHI to SEA via CONO and the Empire Builder late March. Then I redeemed 40,000 points for bedroom sleeper to return SEA to SAC to CHI to NOL via the Coast Starlight, California Zephyr, and CONO. Neat thing with the new BoA credit cards I received a 2,000 points rebate(5%) so I now have a balance of 26,000 + 2,000(28,000+) points to use in the new AGR which will soon be 48,000+ points since I applied for the BoA World MasterCard to pay for the purchased fare will receive the 20,000 points bonus. So, I guess the best attitude is to make use of the old AGR to redeem very long sleeper trips if you can plus plan to use Amsnag to select lowest prices when redeeming future AGR points. I will only use the AGR credit cards for Amtrak travel as I use a City Aadvantage MC earning American Airlines miles for all other purchases(it's my day to day card). I even convert hotel points to American Airlines points. Admittedly I am a retiree and only fiy or ride Amtrak for pleasure so I use my AA miles to fly first class. If I must pay to fly, I fly Southwest Airlines the major airline in Nashville. More than you wanted to know, but that's my take on value of AGR before or after Jan 24.


----------



## TinCan782 (Oct 25, 2015)

I have a possible river cruise coming up in a year that would work nicely with Amtrak at each end. I'll be booking that Amtrak travel with an AGR redemption (before January) using the "zone system" (I sound like Ansel Adams!).


----------



## dlagrua (Oct 26, 2015)

tricia said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > dlagrua said:
> ...


AGR 2.0 will certainly require more points for two people traveling in a sleeper but there _could_ be a benefit for a single travelers. With the new system you need to price the trip for one or two and then apply the points. With the old system it was just a set amount of points for one or two passengers in a sleeper. Escalating fares will also have an effect but how high can Amtrak fares go before they price themselves out of the market? Except on short commuter type trips airfare is always less expensive and faster.


----------



## BALtoNYPtraveler (Oct 26, 2015)

You guys have done a lot of analysis and I'm sure it's useful to those with more complicated situations than myself, but:

1. I only travel within the same zone, on the same route.

2. I don't need sleepers or anything, just coach, for myself an one or two companions.

So it looks like I will get more rides for the points if I wait to use the points. It's tempting to just ride free right now with all the points I have, but trying to be expensively thrifty (spending more money so I can have more value later), I'm just racking up a million points, and I hope I'll be able to use them all. D I'm sure I can think of reasons to use them.


----------



## Eric S (Oct 26, 2015)

The simplest/quickest method to see how you'll "fare" under the new points system is to look up what the fare is and multiply by 34.5 to see how many points that would require. Of course, fares change all the time, so it's more complicated than simply knowing that Trip X is a 20,000 point redemption.


----------



## D.P. Roberts (Oct 26, 2015)

jebr said:


> Tickets can be booked up until the time of departure for an AGR award, so long as the train is not sold out.
> 
> AGR redemptions under the new system are redeemed at the value fare level, not saver. No passenger discounts will apply other than the child fare.






Eric S said:


> The simplest/quickest method to see how you'll "fare" under the new points system is to look up what the fare is and multiply by 34.5 to see how many points that would require. Of course, fares change all the time, so it's more complicated than simply knowing that Trip X is a 20,000 point redemption.


I understand that if you want to pay for a trip entirely with points, the fare is based on the value level, with no discounts.

But they've stated that you will also have the ability to pay for a trip partially with points and partially with cash. Under those situations, one would hope that you could get any fare you want, and then deduct a certain amount of the cost with points (using 34.5 points per dollar).

If not, it pretty much defeats the purpose of having NARP, AAA, or other common discounts (or defeats the purpose of paying partially in points), as you're spending a lot of points to reduce your fare by the amount that a discount would have gotten you for free.


----------



## dlagrua (Oct 26, 2015)

AGR 2.0 is going to mean the end of three zone trips and longer two zone trips for us. Those sleeper trips will now be unaffordable. When we have used points, we have usually paid one way and used the points for the return trip. Doing a points/cost analysis on these longer trips now show the points requirements and prices are way out of our range. Charging $2500 one way for a bedroom trip from PHL to SEA or LAX is absolutly insane. It is a three zone 60,000 point trip under the current system but under AGR 2.0 it's an exorbitant 84,000 points. Maybe the intent is to force AGR members to travel less.Time will tell how this all pans out, but if prices and points keep rising like this, why before you know it, the LD system will self destruct.


----------



## abcnews (Oct 26, 2015)

The current system is much better if you have 5, 7 or 10 days to travel, and go coast to coast via the longest possible routing.

The new points program seems fair, and it actually works very well for short day trips, or two day trips - but it's not at all good for seven or ten day long distance trips. Unless you are stoping a lot along the way. Then the new program is better.

I will miss those long trips to the West Coast with very few points used, but I will certainly look forward to riding more trains here on the East Coast. Under the current program, the best runs right now are long trips in the western part of the US - like El Paso, TX to Seattle, WA.


----------



## TinCan782 (Oct 26, 2015)

dlagrua said:


> AGR 2.0 is going to mean the end of three zone trips and longer two zone trips for us. Those sleeper trips will now be unaffordable. When we have used points, we have usually paid one way and used the points for the return trip. Doing a points/cost analysis on these longer trips now show the points requirements and prices are way out of our range. Charging $2500 one way for a bedroom trip from PHL to SEA or LAX is absolutly insane. It is a three zone 60,000 point trip under the current system but under AGR 2.0 it's an exorbitant 84,000 points. Maybe the intent is to force AGR members to travel less.Time will tell how this all pans out, but if prices and points keep rising like this, why before you know it, the LD system will self destruct.


We did a three zone bedroom last August...LAX to WAS and return. I pretty much came up with the same number of points under 2.0 vs the 60k each way for three zones.


----------



## winterskigirl (Dec 22, 2015)

I can see using amsnag even more beneficial.


----------



## benale (Dec 23, 2015)

I booked a trip for March using a 20,000 two zone award in a roomette from El Paso to Fort Lauderdale. If I were to book after 1/24 that same trip would cost 55.000 points. I would imagine two zone trips in a sleeper traveling the entire length of each zone is less expensive now than it will be under the new system. On the other hand, a trip from Pittsburgh to Chicago or Omaha to Salt Lake City,would be cheaper under the new system.


----------



## HARHBG (Jan 3, 2016)

Just want to share my "real-time" experience with all.

Just booked a trip, CHI to SEA via TE421 to LAX then CS14 to SEA. Bedroom all the way, = 40,000 ARG points.

EXACT SAME trip, same days, same accommodations under NEW AGR II redemption rules, = 91,425 points.

Granted, the necessary points under the new AGR II will fluctuate with the ticket price,, but here is one example of how the "New and Improved" AGR II seems anything BUT "new and improved"............ except,........... perhaps,....... for Amtrak............

Getting closer and closer to having ridden all Amtrak Routes, now on to looking at what Canada has to offer and what the Alaska trains cost..............BEST WISHES IN 2016 TO ALL...........


----------



## BCL (Jan 3, 2016)

HARHBG said:


> Just want to share my "real-time" experience with all.
> 
> Just booked a trip, CHI to SEA via TE421 to LAX then CS14 to SEA. Bedroom all the way, = 40,000 ARG points.
> 
> EXACT SAME trip, same days, same accommodations under NEW AGR II redemption rules, = 91,425 points.


It really depends though. Not everyone is looking to take a long flat-rate trip. I redeemed a single coach trip SEA-EMY. The retail price was $130, and a lot of people thought it was a poor value to use 5500 points for that. If I had used points under the new plan, it would have been less than 4500 points. I've thought of taking a trip to Reno, but it just doesn't make that much sense to use points. Under the new plan I can get it for about 2200 points if I can find a low bucket fare.

Of course my big thing is that I got most of my points with the minimum 100 points per segment.


----------



## benale (Jan 3, 2016)

Three weeks from today AGR 2.0 will be here. If you want to book a cross country trip using the longest way possible,book soon. Like BCL and other riders I have used the 100 point minimum using short inexpensive trips usually during double days. My last big point trip is coming up soon. It will be a long time before I earn enough points for another journey under the new system.


----------



## TinCan782 (Jan 3, 2016)

benale said:


> Three weeks from today AGR 2.0 will be here. If you want to book a cross country trip using the longest way possible,book soon. Like BCL and other riders I have used the 100 point minimum using short inexpensive trips usually during double days. My last big point trip is coming up soon. It will be a long time before I earn enough points for another journey under the new system.


Consider getting the BofA AGR credit card (if you don't already have one) and making use of the AGR "shopping portal". Even before the change to AGR2, most of my points were earned that way vs actual "paid" Amtrak travel.

.


----------

