# She rode 'the Santa Fe"



## crabby_appleton1950 (Jan 23, 2015)

In a _non-Amtrak forum_ (not even a _train_ forum) a woman posted about a horrible train trip she took aboard '_the Santa Fe_' and how filthy it was. I asked her when and where, but got no response.

Have you heard of '_the Santa Fe_'? I googled it and only found a reference to Amtrak purchasing the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.

thanks


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## Agent (Jan 23, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> Have you heard of '_the Santa Fe_'? I googled it and only found a reference to Amtrak purchasing the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.
> 
> thanks


Amtrak didn't buy that. They did take over some of their passenger trains in 1971.


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## caravanman (Jan 23, 2015)

There is a non Amtrak train that runs from Santa Fe, known as the Rail Runner. I rode it myself back in Sept, and found it clean and decent. The main San Diego station is called Santa Fe, so who knows what she rode...

Ed


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Jan 23, 2015)

She finally responded saying it was over 40 years ago and was on the Atchison,Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.


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## Big Iron (Jan 23, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> She finally responded saying it was over 40 years ago and was on the Atchison,Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.


It would be interesting to get details about the train she rode. Her experience was atypical for the Sante Fe, even during the decline of the passenger train era. The Santa Fe stayed true to the end with class and cleanliness. Sante Fe even made Amtrak drop "Chief" from the name of the Southwest Chief which ran for awhile as the Southwest Limited in the early 70's.


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## BCL (Jan 23, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> She finally responded saying it was over 40 years ago and was on the Atchison,Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.


I think the Southwest Chief (or a variation of it) is pretty much the only remnant of Santa Fe's passenger service that Amtrak runs.


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## greatcats (Jan 23, 2015)

If I am not mistaken, the heartland Flyer from Oklahoma City and the line from LAX to San Diego is former Santa Fe trackage.


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## spacecadet (Jan 23, 2015)

It was pretty common vernacular in the golden age of rail travel to use "The" before a railroad name, as in "The Santa Fe" or "The New York Central" or "The Rio Grande". (This is a shortening of the full name of the railroad; it's like saying "The Santa Fe Railway".) So when I first saw the original post, I assumed that was probably what she meant. It's kind of interesting that nobody really says "The Amtrak" and never has.

I am interested to read about this horrible trip, though. "The Santa Fe" had a really good reputation right up to the end of passenger operations. By contrast, "the New York Central" and some others had really fallen pretty far, pretty fast and were shadows of their former selves by 1971.


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## FriskyFL (Jan 23, 2015)

greatcats said:


> If I am not mistaken, the heartland Flyer from Oklahoma City and the line from LAX to San Diego is former Santa Fe trackage.


As are the San Joaquins for much of their run.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Jan 23, 2015)

Big Iron said:


> It would be interesting to get details about the train she rode.


She's now in her 80s, and not very communicative. She _now_ lives in Missouri. She said she rode the train 'to CA'. I don't know from where, but again it was probably in the 1960s.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jan 23, 2015)

greatcats said:


> If I am not mistaken, the heartland Flyer from Oklahoma City and the line from LAX to San Diego is former Santa Fe trackage.


Very correct on the_* Heartland Flyer *_as she prowls along the route once proudly covered by the _*Texas Chief*_ and before that (1948) the _*Ranger*_. Every time I pass through Big Canyon (Arbuckles) on the _*Flyer*_ I think of the photo Postcards I have of the _*Texas Chief*_ passing that same area.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 23, 2015)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > If I am not mistaken, the heartland Flyer from Oklahoma City and the line from LAX to San Diego is former Santa Fe trackage.
> ...


Amtrak's Lone Star also used this route till 1979 when it was discontinued! Back when Santa Fe still ran trains on this route, they ran trains to Houston's Union Station and on down to Galveston where the old Terminal is now a Rail Museum!


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## jphjaxfl (Jan 25, 2015)

I rode a number of the Santa Fe trains in last two years of railroad operations and the trains were always excellent. I wonder if it wasn't the RI/SP's Golden State which was taken off 3-4 years before Amtrak, but had deteriorated quite a lot.


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## ehbowen (Jan 25, 2015)

This does sound atypical for the ATSF. One possibility is that she might have boarded at a station with prominent *"Santa Fe"* signage, but which was actually used by two or more railroads. I'm thinking specifically of Fort Worth "Union" station, owned and signage by ATSF but also used by Rock Island's _Twin Star Rocket_.

On the other hand, if it was only 40 years ago it might have occurred during the early "rainbow era" of Amtrak, with equipment which was still stenciled and marked "Santa Fe" but staffed and maintained by employees with varying and sometimes insufficient levels of motivation.

And then of course we must acknowledge the possibility that "Uncle John" did indeed have an off day now and then....


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## steve smith (Jan 25, 2015)

Actually, Amtrak continued to flagship train of the Santa Fe from 1971 though 1974, the fabled Santa Fe SUPER CHIEF ! They continued the Champagne Dinner, the silver train consist, the dome cars, and all the regal amenities. The current Station Chief in Cleveland's Amtrak station, Mr. Shaw I believe is his name, got his start on the Super Chief at the start of Amtrak. BUT----as we all know, pressures on Amtrak to "cut costs" lead to the loss of china in the diner, and loss of other amenities from time to time, in the futile belief that you increase profits by reducing customer satisfaction! Instead of increasing profits by getting more and happier customers! [i worked for McDonald's in college, and they drummed it into us----we succeed by making customers happy and wanting to come back, NOT by skimping on the quality of what we are trying to sell them!] ANYWAY.....in 1974, Amtrak eliminated some of the first class amenities on the Super Chief----Santa Fe then withdrew its permission for Amtrak to use the train name, saying they would NOT permit the name of their famed flagship to be used on an "inferior train." Santa Fe said they would only permit Amtrak to use the name of one of their lesser trains, The Chief, which was not all first class and had carried coach passengers. Amtrak complied with Santa Fe's orders, and renamed the train The Chief, and soon after added Southwest to the title. Now that Amtrak has removed the mint-on-pillows and the First Class Wine Tasting on the Lakeshore Limited, and the real china----about the only true first class amenity left is the Pacific Parlor Car. To get people to pay first class prices like Amtrak's sleeping car fares, you really need to treat the passengers with first class service. Amtrak makes NO effort to do that. Yes, some of the crews DO make that effort. But Amtrak does not enforce it, or demand it of the staff. Pullman DID make that demand, of all their employees, white as well as Black.I now go by train NOT expecting service such as i received taking the train to Orlando from Ohio in 1960-----now, i go for the fun of the ride and the fun of the view....i expect poor service, so if it is anything better than poor, then i count it a PLUS!


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## spacecadet (Jan 25, 2015)

steve smith said:


> Santa Fe then withdrew its permission for Amtrak to use the train name, saying they would NOT permit the name of their famed flagship to be used on an "inferior train." Santa Fe said they would only permit Amtrak to use the name of one of their lesser trains, The Chief, which was not all first class and had carried coach passengers. Amtrak complied with Santa Fe's orders, and renamed the train The Chief, and soon after added Southwest to the title.


Almost! Amtrak renamed it the Southwest Limited in 1974 - that was the first name change. "Chief" wasn't re-added until 1984. Amtrak has the Southwest Limited 1974 route guide up on its history site: http://history.amtrak.com/archives/i-southwest-limited-i-route-guide-1974


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