# Please explain the "bucket" fare pricing system?



## Cascadia (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi, I feel dumb asking but I searched and couldn't find a clear explanation of Amtraks bucket fare pricing system which is often referred to here.

I've read different posts by people who mention it and have sort of picked up the concept piecemeal that way, but haven't seen a complete explanation that I could use with confidence to help me get the best deals on tickets.

My understanding is that the cheapest price seats always are sold first, then the next price up, then the most expensive? So it depends on how fast the train sells out, what price you get?

I also caught the reference to people cancelling a ticket in the lower bucket price which puts that cancelled seat back at the low price, and that this happens at 2 a.m.?

anyway if you could explain it and tell us how to exploit this to our advantage, that would be great. I did do a search to see if I could come up with the information on the forum that way, but didn't get the concise thing I was looking for.

Thanks!


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## GG-1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> Hi, I feel dumb asking but I searched and couldn't find a clear explanation of Amtraks bucket fare pricing system which is often referred to here.
> Thanks!


Aloha

Not a true expert on Amtrak Tickets Buckets, but if you are familiar with Hotel practices, as the hotel fills up, the room rates increase. Whether it is a holiday or not, although Holidays start Higher. In a hotel I am most familiar with in Vegas the same room can vary from 39.95 to 750.00 per night. I have no idea of the Formula used.


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## AlanB (Mar 20, 2008)

On most trains, although not all, Amtrak has five price levels or buckets for the coach seats. Based upon anticipated ridership and other formulas, someone at Amtrak decides that on June 10 on the SW Chief that 20 seats will be assigned the low bucket price. 30 seats will be assigned at the next bucket level, 25 at the third, and so on until all the seats have been assigned to one of the 5 buckets.

Now when seats first go on sale, normally 11 months before the date of travel, those booking on that day and subsequent days get a seat at the low bucket price. As soon as 20 seats have been sold, the computer automatically starts charging the next person to book a seat, the next highest price. And again, when those 30 seats are sold, the price is kicked to the next bucket level.

On the SW Chief a coach seat from LA to Chicago can vary from a low of $140 to a high of $273. So you can see that there is quite a variance in prices from the low bucket to the high bucket. This is why we always advise people to book as soon as possible. Waiting for a discount code to show up is almost always going to end up costing you more in the long run.

Additionally, the numbers that I used are fictional with regard to how many seats are at what bucket level. And depending on expected demmand, you may find that no seats are assigned to the low bucket price.

Sleepers also work on a bucket system too, so as rooms sell, the prices go up. One interesting thing though is, that when one bucks a sleeper, one always gets the low bucket price for the railfare. Railfare is the same as saying a coach seat, although one doesn't actually get a coach seat when booking a sleeper. But one must still pay the price of a coach seat as your base fare, before the surcharge for the room. The good thing about a room though is that you only pay once for the room. After that, any other passenger in the room only pays the railfare and again at the low bucket price, even if the coach seats are currently selling in a higher bucket.

As for the reference to the 2:00 AM thing, I'm not sure if that even applies at all now. However, if it does, then it only applies to sleepers. Coach seats and even first class seats on Acela go right back into inventory the moment someone cancels a reservation.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 21, 2008)

Here is a graphic from AMTRAK which helps: Inventory Class Codes


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## Cascadia (Mar 21, 2008)

Hey thanks so much for all the input, I appreciate the replies.

AlanB, I will re-read your response many times and I will play around with booking tickets way out in the future to get an idea of this. I will forward this to my friend that I have been joking around about taking a long train trip to meet up with somewhere too. She likes trains as much as I do and hasn't taken a train trip for a while. We should meet up together somewhere out west.

Thanks again for the great information! Very helpful.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 21, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> Hey thanks so much for all the input, I appreciate the replies.
> AlanB, I will re-read your response many times and I will play around with booking tickets way out in the future to get an idea of this.


AH, but here is the catch.

With the airline reservation systems you know what fare code (and rules) you are booking. With sites like Travelocity Fares you can see the entire rundown, with the first letter of each fare code being the class of service (like F, A, Y, B, M, K, T etc) There are even website that will tell you exactly how many seats are available in each fare code, like SEAT COUNTER. [Just a note, the reservation systems will show "9" even if more than that exist. The number will drop as bookings take up that code.]

That is not the case with AMTRAK. You can hunt and peck all you want on ATMRAK.com, and you might get a feel for the different inventory codes, but nothing definite, and certainly not how many remain for that code . The only way to know exactly is call reservations and ask them to list them for you.

But with the Inventory Class Code cheat sheet I attached earlier, you will at least have a good knowledge base to ask questions and understand the answers.

good luck...........


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

daveyb99 said:


> Here is a graphic from AMTRAK which helps: Inventory Class Codes


How did you get that? Considering it is on the Amtrak site, what page is it linked by?


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## daveyb99 (Mar 21, 2008)

from AMTRAK.COM

click INSIDE AMTAK at the bottom of the page

click TRAVEL AGENT RESOURCE CENTER on the left side of the page

click QUICK REFERENCE CARDS AND BROCHURES in the center of the page (scroll down maybe)

click QUICK REFERENCE CARDS in the middle of the page

click INVENTORY CLASS CODES in the middle of the page (scroll down)


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## rtabern (Mar 21, 2008)

And as Alan said, the number of seats or sleeping car rooms in the lowest price bucket depend on what time of year it is.

I mean in the winter or spring, there might be a handful of sleeping car rooms available at the lowest fare bucket on the train you want. BUT, other times of the year, there might be just 1 sleeping car room available at the lowest fare bucket.

I found this out a couple of months ago.

I have Christmas week off this year, and wanted to take a 5-day/4-night trip on the Zephyr from Chicago to Reno and back (with just a 3-4 hour layover in Reno).

Knowing the holidays are busy and knowing how the bucket system works, I booked the trip just a few minutes after the train went on sale (11 months in advance).

I snagged a round-trip in a roomette CHI-REN-CHI for just over $700 (I got the first and ONLY roomette at the lowest price). Immediately after booking, I went to check the same type of trip and any other room cost almost double, $1,342.


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## Cascadia (Mar 22, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Knowing the holidays are busy and knowing how the bucket system works, I booked the trip just a few minutes after the train went on sale (11 months in advance).
> I snagged a round-trip in a roomette CHI-REN-CHI for just over $700 (I got the first and ONLY roomette at the lowest price). Immediately after booking, I went to check the same type of trip and any other room cost almost double, $1,342.


Wow! I am very happy for you that you got the lower price! That's quite the drastic difference!

Is it always 11 months in advance that the seats become available?


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## rtabern (Mar 22, 2008)

Cascadia said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > Knowing the holidays are busy and knowing how the bucket system works, I booked the trip just a few minutes after the train went on sale (11 months in advance).
> ...



Thanks... I'm glad too.  I usually will only travel if I can get the lowest price bucket for a sleeper... if there's a higher bucket and I need to travel than I'll use my AGR points.

Anyway, yeah, 11 months.


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## diesteldorf (Mar 22, 2008)

AlanB said:


> As for the reference to the 2:00 AM thing, I'm not sure if that even applies at all now. However, if it does, then it only applies to sleepers. Coach seats and even first class seats on Acela go right back into inventory the moment someone cancels a reservation.



I believe the reference to 2 AM may be referring to the time that Arrow will begin automatically canceling unpaid reservations and put them back into inventory. I know the process begins around midnight Pacific so that would meen 2-3 AM for those in the midwest or east coast. Of course, if the reservation is canceled by the traveler, the seat would go back into inventory at that time.

As a result, I have been able to see unsold trains open and sleeper/bucket fairs lowered if I wake up in the wee hours of the morning


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## Mark Gregory (Mar 22, 2008)

How do you determine the lowest bucket fare for a sleeper on a particular route?

Mark


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## AlanB (Mar 22, 2008)

Well if you're riding a train from origination to termination, then Amtrak has published the lowest bucket price and the highest in the national timetable. If you're traveling between intermediate points, then it's much harder to figure it out. Basically you just have to start putting in various dates and tracking the pricing results, along with comparing those results to high/low for the length of the route, to figure out the low bucket for the ride you want.


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## Cascadia (Mar 22, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Well if you're riding a train from origination to termination, then Amtrak has published the lowest bucket price and the highest in the national timetable. If you're traveling between intermediate points, then it's much harder to figure it out. Basically you just have to start putting in various dates and tracking the pricing results, along with comparing those results to high/low for the length of the route, to figure out the low bucket for the ride you want.


Thanks for pointing out that there are some fares published in the system timetable, I might have overlooked that page (p. 116), or not known exactly what I was seeing.


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## caravanman (Mar 22, 2008)

Amtrak's railpass which is available for purchase by overseas visitors is now only valid for lowest bucket price tickets. If the tourist wants to travel at a time of year that tourists might expect to want to travel, say, when they are on their summer vacation, those lowest bucket prices are simply not available.. Is anyone at Amtrak able to explain their thinking on this.. after all, they DO charge extra for their peak season pass, so they know there will be hardly any lowest bucket seats available when selling their peak pass in the first place!

Ed B)


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## daveyb99 (Mar 22, 2008)

Mark Gregory said:


> How do you determine the lowest bucket fare for a sleeper on a particular route?
> Mark


If you are referring to Inventory Class Codes, check links in my previous posts


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 22, 2008)

Is that the same for the NARP as well?


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## PRR 60 (Mar 22, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Is *that *the same for the NARP as well?


That? Do buckets apply to NARP fares: yes. Is the NARP discount only valid for lowest bucket? No. NARP T&C's are the same as AAA.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 22, 2008)

I should have seen that mistake coming. My fault.

North American Rail Pass


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2008)

Just to reiterate the importance of booking early when you can. I just booked a round-trip from Washington D.C. to Seattle for mid August. Bedrooms and family rooms were already sold out traveling westbound. They wanted $1,000 one way/roomette for one person. Luckily I used my AGR points for that leg and paid $600 something for my return. Expensive indeed, and out of reach for most.


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