# Goodbye Champlain Flyer



## Superliner Diner (Feb 28, 2003)

As of tonight 2/28/03, the number of commuter rail operations in the USA has dropped from 19 to 18. The Champlain Flyer has made its last run (for now) between Burlington and Charlotte, VT.  Ridership never materialized on this line, which was intended as a means to mitigate the effects of a construction project on parallel U.S. 7. That project got delayed --- until this year, _after_ the train has been cancelled. :angry:

It was a new administration in Montpelier that decided to kill off the train, as it just was not bringing in much revenue. Hopefully it can return, with the proposed extensions southward to Vergennes (and even Rutland to meet the Amtrak's Ethan Allen Express), and eastward to Essex Junction to meet Amtrak's Vermonter and serve a huge employer, IBM.

Its around-the-corner connection with the Lake Champlain Ferry to Port Kent, NY (and Amtrak's Adirondack) surely did not hurt. Had this train lived up to its potential and been extended to the above places, it potentially could have had connections (direct or indirect) with three different name Amtrak trains.

I'm glad I was able to get this trackage under my belt when the train was running.


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## Amfleet (Feb 28, 2003)

I think it was great that a commuter rail service was at least tried, but reality that area was just not suited for a rail service. Now lets hope Amtrak won't vanish from Vermont.


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## battalion51 (Feb 28, 2003)

The Vermonter will definitely be staying around for a while to come. What may be vanishing though is the Ethan Allen Express. The train carries very few people (three to four on some days), and is a big money drain. The states are considering cutting funding from the train, and it most likely would get the 180 day notice soon thereafter.


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## Superliner Diner (Feb 28, 2003)

The state of Vermont pays for the Ethan Allen, even though the majority of its route is in New York State.

I hope the bean counters that registered 3 or 4 people on the Ethan Allen found them getting on or off the train at the two Vermont stops; otherwise it could be argued that they could easily be accomodated on the Adirondack (or other Empire Service trains south of Albany).


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## Amfleet (Feb 28, 2003)

The Vermonter can carry very few people too, but you have to look at the whole ridership status. It may be worth it to run the Vermonter only a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for weekend skiers in the Winter or for a weekend in the summer.


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## Superliner Diner (Mar 1, 2003)

Amfleet said:


> The Vermonter can carry very few people too, but you have to look at the whole ridership status. It may be worth it to run the Vermonter only a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for weekend skiers in the Winter or for a weekend in the summer.


Sorry Amfleet but I must disagree on this one. It's been proven already that running an Amtrak train on a less-than-daily basis can only further hurt ridership, as a potential passenger's travel options are suddenly taken away. The Empire Builder, California Zephyr, and Texas Eagle (north of San Antonio) have all been run on a three-times-weekly or four-times-weekly schedule, but eventually Amtrak came to their senses and made them daily once again. If I arrive in a particular city, I want to know that train will be running tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that. With the Vermonter schedule you propose, somebody going northward on a Sunday would not have a southbound return train for five days, until the following Friday. With potential riders knowing that, what do you think this would do to the ridership on the days the train does run?


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## Amfleet (Mar 1, 2003)

You do make a good point that I did not take into consideration. When I look at the Cape Codder from the '80's and '90's the train would only come down on weekends during the summer. Ridership was hurting badly and the service cancelled.


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## Amtrak Watcher (Mar 3, 2003)

I saw the story on local TV here in Dallas about the end of the Champlain Flyer. While watching the piece on TV, the DART Rail’s RED LINE was making its customary stop outside my window. I live in an apartment only a few feet from DART’s Red Line in an enormous building with many other tenants, many of whom do not use the transit system. Though the DART rail system seems popular, I am always amazed with the number of people who live very close to local transit rail stations, but still drive to work even when the local transit system would be faster and more convenient for them. When proposing a system such as the Champlain Flyer, it’s not enough to guess how many “could” use a system; you have to figure how many people “will” use it. Americans seem to be willing to go to great lengths to own and use a car, even though it may not make much sense.


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## jccollins (Mar 4, 2003)

battalion51 said:


> The Vermonter will definitely be staying around for a while to come. What may be vanishing though is the Ethan Allen Express. The train carries very few people (three to four on some days), and is a big money drain. The states are considering cutting funding from the train, and it most likely would get the 180 day notice soon thereafter.


THREE to FOUR???!!!   

Please tell me you are exagerating?! Is it really this bad? THREE to FOUR on the ENTIRE train?


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## Amfleet (Mar 4, 2003)

I think that is an exageration. This is the gossip talk that gets tangle up in the media and railfans.


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