# Guest Rewards Nightmare



## Greg (Aug 11, 2010)

I was on train#49 the LATE Shore Limited on sunday night when it was 8 hours late arriving in Chicago. I had booked a round-the country trip (Jax - NYP - CHI - LAX - SEA - Chi - Was - Jax). The train was scheduled to arrive in chicago at 9:30am but didn't get there until 5pm. Needless to say, I missed my connection to the Southwest Chief and all connections thereafter. I decided to turn around and go back to JAX. This is where the fun began. There was only a coach seat available on #30 and when I called Amtrak, they stated they would put me at #1 on a waitlist for a sleeper and that a sleeper would be opening up in Pittsburgh. I guess I should have booked it with Guest Rewards at the time, but they suggested I talk to the conductor to see if there were any no-shows at Chicago. While I was at Chicago Union Station, i checked with a ticket agent and she suggested that I talk to the conductor as well.

I got on board, heading back to DC with my tail between my legs resigned to the fact that I'd have to do the trip overnight in coach. (i'm not above that, it's just that the entire round the country trip was with a sleeper). I asked the conductor on board and she said "yeah, yeah, yeah, you and the 8 other people who have asked to be upgraded to a sleeper..." I told her politely that I was #1 on a wait list, to which she replied that she'd know if there was a no-show in about an hour once she counted her tickets and that the people at Amtrak do not let the train people know there is a waiting list. 3 hours later, I saw her again and asked politely again if there was a sleeper available and she said there wasn't and I told her that one was to open up in Pittsburgh to which she replied that I needed to call 1-800-USA-RAIL to book it. So I called Amtrak and the agent said I needed to talk to the conductor! I relayed that back to the conductor and she said she'd check on it and get back with me. She never did and I fell asleep in my coach seat.

At 3am a new conductor came on board and I asked her about upgrading to the sleeper which would be opening up in Pittsburgh and she told me that I needed to get off at Pittsburgh and talk to the ticket agent at the station....AARRRGGHH! Needless to say, I slept through Pittsburgh comfy in my coach seat and never got to get the shower that I so desparately wanted. The upside to all of this was that I got (with AGR points) a deluxe room for the WAS-JAX portion back home.

My question is: Had I been a revenue passenger, would any of this have gone any smoother? Everytime someone looked at my ticket and saw that I was traveling on guest reward points, they said I needed to call Amtrak. This was very frustrating and I just hoped there would have been more coordination between AGR and Amtrak. Thanks to you all for letting me vent!


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 11, 2010)

Although we have not had the terrible experience you have had with our Guest Rewards tickets, I can attest that not all Amtrak employees are this rude. When in LA last year we asked to have a change in our train with a Guest Reward ticket. The agent went out of her way to call several people, including her supervisor to arrange for our tickets to be switched. 

Unfortunately, the Capitol Ltd seems to have some personnel that are more interested in getting to the end of the line that taking care of passengers. :angry2: Not sure why these people have such a poor attitude since they only have to spend one night on the train and are back in WAS by 1PM. :huh:

Our eastbound experiences have been filled with "care-less" attitudes about food, sleeper passengers and keeping order in the lounge car. :angry:

Not sure why this is since most of our other trains have been filled with nice people who try to serve the passenger. I am sure not all of the personnel are as rude as this conductor was but it sure is bad PR for Amtrak. **not that they care!!

Hope your next trip is filled with positive experiences as most of ours have been


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## amamba (Aug 11, 2010)

So sorry to hear about all of your troubles. My only suggestion would be to call AGR and ask for some of your points back - hopefully they will do that for you. Who knows, maybe you can get a voucher too from Amtrak Customer Relations for the late train and your missed connections. What a shame you missed your round the country trip


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## Rail Freak (Aug 11, 2010)

Wasn't this a garaunteed connection to CHI?


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## Greg (Aug 11, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> Wasn't this a garaunteed connection to CHI?



You would have thought so but with AGR, I guess all bets are off.


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## the_traveler (Aug 11, 2010)

Greg said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't this a garaunteed connection to CHI?
> ...


It doesn't matter if it's AGR or revenue, it's still *GUARANTEED*!




That's why on a CZ->CS trip on either an AGR award *OR* a revenue trip, the *GUARANTEED CONNECTION* is SAC - not DAV, MTZ or EMY!


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## Greg (Aug 11, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > Rail Freak said:
> ...



No one on the train offered to do anything. All they said was go to customer service in Union Station. There would have been no way, bus or otherwise (unless I flew) to catch up to the Southwest Chief. The entire trip was mapped out and all connections would have been lost anyway. I was hoping they'd take us off the train prior to arriving in Chicago and put us on a bus or something to catch the Southwest Chief, but not a word was said.


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## AlanB (Aug 11, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> It doesn't matter if it's AGR or revenue, it's still *GUARANTEED*!
> 
> 
> 
> That's why on a CZ->CS trip on either an AGR award *OR* a revenue trip, the *GUARANTEED CONNECTION* is SAC - not DAV, MTZ or EMY!


I guess that you missed the memo, or at least the post that I put up yesterday. 

EMY is a guaranteed connection between the CZ & the CS. Yes, Amtrak may act as though your connection is guaranteed at SAC if the CZ is so late that it misses the CS even at SAC. But someone missing that connection will indeed still be put up at a hotel and rebooked the next day, without regard for whether their connection was booked at SAC or EMY.


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## AlanB (Aug 11, 2010)

Greg,

First, I'm very sorry to hear that all your plans went up in smoke. 

Next, please forgive me if I'm mis-understanding the order of events here, but from your first post it sounds like you took the ball out of Amtrak's court. You said:



> I decided to turn around and go back to JAX. This is where the fun began. There was only a coach seat available on #30 and when I called Amtrak, they stated they would put me at #1 on a waitlist for a sleeper and that a sleeper would be opening up in Pittsburgh.


If that is indeed the case and exactly how things went down; then you took the ball right out of Amtrak's hands and killed your guaranteed connection.

What you needed to do was to go to Customer Service in Union Station. It's very hard to say what they might have done, perhaps flown you to Kansas City, perhaps bused you to KCS, perhaps they could have found sleepers one day later all the way along your trip to put you into, in which case they would have given you a hotel voucher and a meal voucher for that night in Chicago. Perhaps they would have been unable to secure sleepers all the way and would have given you the option having some legs with sleepers/some without, or perhaps they would have given you the option of returning to your origin point. At the very least they would have been able to hand you a coach ticket to Pittsburgh and then the sleeper ticket from there.

But if you indeed decided to return home before you spoke with Customer Service and started making your own arrangements by phone from onboard the train or even in the station, then again you took the ball out of Amtrak's hands and in effect voided your guaranteed connection. And please, I'm not trying to blame you or anything here, but it does appear that you may have made a bad situation worse with your actions.

That said, there was no reason for the crew of the Cap to be rude with you or to pawn you off on the ticket agent in PIT. I rather doubt that you thought of it under these very trying circumstances, but if you have the names of those conductors, you should provide them to Amtrak. That second conductor definately should never have suggested that you get off the train to deal with a ticket agent. She should have called space control and taken care of that matter for you.

I will also say that I'm surprised, not stunned, but still surprised that Amtrak didn't put CS reps on board the Lake Shore at South Bend to start talking with people and rebooking them.


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## sechs (Aug 12, 2010)

I'll echo what others have said. There's no difference in how paid and award travel are treated. If you don't go through customer service during an interruption, they can't help you.

I've had Amtrak pay for hotel, meals, and transportation for multiple days on a misconnect due to weather. You won't get that from an airline.


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## Greg (Aug 12, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Greg,
> 
> First, I'm very sorry to hear that all your plans went up in smoke.
> 
> ...



Hey Alan, thanks for your comments...they are right on point. I did indeed take it out of Amtrak's hands but only after I called 1-800-USA-RAIL and Amtrak Guest Rewards and they both told me there were no sleepers available that day or the next day to LAX, San Francisco or Seattle. I would have modified my trip if I could have figured out a way to salvage it. I was really looking forward to this trip and wanted to figure out any way to make it work (except for flying). I think my venting is a result of disappointment as much as frustation of not being able to complete what would have been a wonderful trip. I hope I'm not being too hasty in passing judgement on the folks at Amtrak, but I was mainly following what the Guest Rewards folks told me in my first phone call to them while I was on #49.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2010)

Greg said:


> No one on the train offered to do anything. All they said was go to customer service in Union Station.


Why would the people on the train do anything about connections? Trains, Planes, Buses, no matter what form of transit the people working in the vehicle don't fix connections.


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## AlanB (Aug 12, 2010)

Greg said:


> Hey Alan, thanks for your comments...they are right on point. I did indeed take it out of Amtrak's hands but only after I called 1-800-USA-RAIL and Amtrak Guest Rewards and they both told me there were no sleepers available that day or the next day to LAX, San Francisco or Seattle. I would have modified my trip if I could have figured out a way to salvage it. I was really looking forward to this trip and wanted to figure out any way to make it work (except for flying). I think my venting is a result of disappointment as much as frustation of not being able to complete what would have been a wonderful trip. I hope I'm not being too hasty in passing judgement on the folks at Amtrak, but I was mainly following what the Guest Rewards folks told me in my first phone call to them while I was on #49.


Greg,

Ok, thanks.  I thought that I was understanding you correctly.

While I can certainly understand you trying to be proactive, especially sitting on the train watching the minutes and hours tick by, it really remains a shame that you didn't wait until you got to Chicago to speak with Customer Service (CS). While I can obviously make no guarantees about anything, and especially the connections further down the line, one issue that could well have come up with the method you took is as follows.

Once Amtrak realized that they had a problem, CS would immediately black out any sleepers that weren't already sold (if any) on the 3 westbound trains EB, CZ, and SWC for the following day so as to be able to re-accommodate any passengers who missed their connections. Any phone agent, and especially any AGR agent, would not be able to see those rooms and grab them for you. Only a CS agent would have been able to do that.

So again, it is possible that there might have been a room that you could have gotten the very next day, had you gone in to talk with CS at Union Station. And no matter what, CS in the station should have been able to lock down that sleeper out of Pittsburgh for you, even if they had to put you in coach until that point if your choice had been to just return home. Or they might have put you up in a hotel for the night and then been able to get you a sleeper on the next day's Capitol, Cardinal, or Lake Shore.

Again, the odds were good that your trip was blown unfortunately, especially if flying was out of the picture for you had Amtrak even offered it to under the circumstances.

But I guess the bottom line here is, while trying to be proactive is a good thing and I do know people who have saved a trip by calling once they realized there would be a problem, always talk to CS upon arrival and assuming that they aren't put on board the late running train prior to arrival. If you are lucky and can snag a room by being proactive, the CS people can take that reservation and adjust things for you guaranteeing your trip continues. But if you can't get lucky that way, please don't give up until after speaking with CS there is no hope and/or the alternatives aren't acceptable to you.

Obviously with this trip aborted, you should still be speaking with AGR to get any points back for trips not taken, and you should be taking with CS by phone regarding both the lack of service you got on the train but also to see what compensation they can give you for the inconvenience associated with aborting your trip and for those parts that AGR cannot return points for.


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## AlanB (Aug 12, 2010)

Guest said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > No one on the train offered to do anything. All they said was go to customer service in Union Station.
> ...


You are correct, the normal crew would not and cannot do anything about connections.

However, when a train is late like this one was, Amtrak will often put one or more customer service reps onboard the late running train an hour or two out of Chicago. Those CS reps will then deal with many, if not all, of the various issues associated with loosing one's connections.


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## Greg (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks to all who responded and offerred their thoughts and advice. I guess the reason I panicked was that I knew this delay had messed up my LAX connection, my hotel reservation in lax for one night to make that connection, my Seattle connection my hotel room in seattle for one night to make that connection, my chicago connection and my WAS connection so it was very much a domino effect which I'm sure could have been salvaged in coach definitely and maybe even sleeper on certain portions. I didn't want to risk all that uncertainty. I think there's an element of best practices in each scenario. I should have waited to talk to customer service, but I'm glad I was proactive and booked mostly a sure trip back home. AGR told me that if I mail them the unused tickets, they'll refund my AGR account for the unused portions. that's fair enough. I'll try the trip again another time. Thanks again to all for your wisdom.


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## Trogdor (Aug 12, 2010)

Greg said:


> Thanks to all who responded and offerred their thoughts and advice. I guess the reason I panicked was that I knew this delay had messed up my LAX connection, my hotel reservation in lax for one night to make that connection, my Seattle connection my hotel room in seattle for one night to make that connection, my chicago connection and my WAS connection so it was very much a domino effect which I'm sure could have been salvaged in coach definitely and maybe even sleeper on certain portions. I didn't want to risk all that uncertainty. I think there's an element of best practices in each scenario. I should have waited to talk to customer service, but I'm glad I was proactive and booked mostly a sure trip back home. AGR told me that if I mail them the unused tickets, they'll refund my AGR account for the unused portions. that's fair enough. I'll try the trip again another time. Thanks again to all for your wisdom.



More hindsight, but if you try this again, and in the unlikely event (hopefully not) that you find yourself missing a westward connection in Chicago, it sounds like you had an extra day's buffer built into your schedule, just not in the right place.

You wouldn't need an overnight connection in Los Angeles to connect from the SW Chief to the Coast Starlight. That is a same-day guaranteed connection. So, if they had put you on the next day's SW Chief, you could have skipped the LAX hotel, and been back on-time on your trip. Even if only coach was available for half way (and, who knows, maybe a sleeper would have opened up elsewhere down the line), they might have put you in a sleeper for the other half of the trip, and, since you wound up spending a night in coach anyway, the net effect would have been more-or-less the same.

Again, there's nothing you can do about the last trip now (except get some of your points back), but if you do try this again in the future, it's good to let an Amtrak agent map out your options before turning around and going home.


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## Greg (Aug 12, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks to all who responded and offerred their thoughts and advice. I guess the reason I panicked was that I knew this delay had messed up my LAX connection, my hotel reservation in lax for one night to make that connection, my Seattle connection my hotel room in seattle for one night to make that connection, my chicago connection and my WAS connection so it was very much a domino effect which I'm sure could have been salvaged in coach definitely and maybe even sleeper on certain portions. I didn't want to risk all that uncertainty. I think there's an element of best practices in each scenario. I should have waited to talk to customer service, but I'm glad I was proactive and booked mostly a sure trip back home. AGR told me that if I mail them the unused tickets, they'll refund my AGR account for the unused portions. that's fair enough. I'll try the trip again another time. Thanks again to all for your wisdom.
> ...



Thanks Trogdor...sage words indeed...now that i've looked at the schedules again, not sure why i planned the overnight in LAX to begin with...i guess i thought that 2 hours of connect time was too tight...i probably should have done what you suggested. isn't hindsight great?!?! thanks again


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## the_traveler (Aug 12, 2010)

Greg said:


> I guess the reason I panicked was that I knew this delay had messed up my LAX connection, my hotel reservation in lax for one night to make that connection


I agree, why would you have to spend a night in LA? The SWC arrives ~8 AM and the CS depart ~10 AM!



Besides, you would have to spend one 2-zone AGR award for CHI-LAX and another 1-zone award for LAX-SEA. If you went right thru, you could go CHI-LAX-SEA for a 2-zone award!


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## PaulM (Aug 12, 2010)

Guest said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > No one on the train offered to do anything. All they said was go to customer service in Union Station.
> ...


You are 2/3 correct, i.e., in the case of planes and buses. But as AlanB mentioned, this isn't true for trains. Even in the absence of a customer service rep on board, conductors usually will try to help out with their radio.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 12, 2010)

PaulM said:


> You are 2/3 correct, i.e., in the case of planes and buses. But as AlanB mentioned, this isn't true for trains. Even in the absence of a customer service rep on board, conductors usually will try to help out with their radio.


Help out in what way? Telling CS that there are probable misconnects on board? They should know that from the CRS (Arrow). As far as I know, conductors will not perform re-booking themselves or by radio. They are too busy with ops issues, and it is not really their job. Unless CS reps board the late train prior to arrival, the rebooking option is still to lineup at the CS window and hope for the best.

Most airlines handle misconnects automatically. The airline CRS matches a reported late flight with passengers on board and rebooks predicted misconnects onto available flights (if any) even before the late flight lands. The late passenger goes to a kiosk, pulls up the revised reservation, and prints the new boarding passes. I have seen CS agents meet late arrivals with a pack of boarding passes in-hand when the replacement connections are tight. It does not always work (there may be nothing left if there is a major weather issue), but if there is a reasonable option open, they don't just "block" it, it is booked.

I personally will never book back-to-back Amtrak long distance travel segments. One reason is the havoc that a late LD arrival can cause with onward segments and commitments. Another reason it to get a one night break from the "cozy" Amtrak facilities. After one or two nights in a sleeper, having a real room with a real bed and a real shower for a night is a treat.


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## Ryan (Aug 12, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > You are 2/3 correct, i.e., in the case of planes and buses. But as AlanB mentioned, this isn't true for trains. Even in the absence of a customer service rep on board, conductors usually will try to help out with their radio.
> ...


CS can pass information back to the misconnects on the train - finding out that the train that I'm supposed to be connecting to is going to be held is certainly helpful. Or the pax can be offloaded and bussed in advance of the trains late arrival into CHI (either to CHI, or to catch up with a train that has already left).
There's plenty that a conductor can do in the absence of CS agents onboard - in many cases it's just to act as a conduit for information, but that's sometimes all the help that is needed.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > PaulM said:
> ...


Except for getting buses to meet a plane somewhere (that would be a neat trick  ), is this really different that what a plane crew does? I have heard crews announce that such and such a flight was being held for connecting passengers. I have had passengers near me ask a flight attendant about a critical connection, had the question passed up to the flight deck, and had the response sent back to the passenger. Some flight crews are very helpful, and some are not. Some Amtrak crews are very helpful, and some are not.

AlanB pointed out the effort that Amtrak sometimes makes to take care of predicted misconnects while the passengers are still on the late train. My point is that similar efforts are made for air passengers while they are still on the late flight. The difference is that Amtrak does it with people and cell phones on the train. With most airlines, the work is automated. The end result is similar.


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## Ryan (Aug 12, 2010)

In that case, not really (although the plane to bus would be interesting). I've never seen anything like that happen on an airplane, but (except for a 2 year period for work) I'm not on a plane more than once a year.


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## boxcar479 (Aug 12, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > You are 2/3 correct, i.e., in the case of planes and buses. But as AlanB mentioned, this isn't true for trains. Even in the absence of a customer service rep on board, conductors usually will try to help out with their radio.
> ...


Back in early spring I booked a 2-week rail pass using all 8 segments to travel bak and forth across this country using almost every train in the central and western zones. scheduling was tight, I was in no hurry, My connections were guaranteed.all but three nites were on a L.D. train. It went flawless. so it can be done. but like Dave says be sure to book the guaranteed connx., and if you are taking the train.....Take your time.


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