# Lounge Lizards



## billthebarn (Aug 18, 2013)

Apparantly, that's the name given to coach passengers who go into the SSL to get a night's sleep. Some of these people do not know that this is against the rules. You are not allowed to sleep in the SSL overnight. Or the diner.

Sometimes this rule is not enforced. That is management's fault. A few months ago I was on the TE and, after breakfast, I went to the SSL and got one of the few unoccupied seats. Not far from me was a sprawled out middle-aged woman sound asleep....taking up three seats. Meanwhile other passengers were looking for seats. The conductor came into the car and I thought "finally this situation will be rectified". He woke her and asked her destination. He then left and she went back to sleep....dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to see.

This lady, like others, probably doesn't know she was breaking the rules. Derelict Amtrak employees fail to enforce the rules. So it's partially up to us to make sure the NO SLEEPING OVERNIGHT IN THE LOUNGE rule is known. So when a person posts that he (or she) will be camping out in the SSL, let's set them straight.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2013)

Where's that rule written down?

Also, the topic was just discussed extensively here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/55510-best-of-the-lounge-lizards/page-1


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## billthebarn (Aug 18, 2013)

That's an easy one, Ryan. In THE RULEBOOK.

PAGE 17: The diner is the place for having meals. You cannot sleep here.

The SSL is for sightseeing and visiting with other passengers. You cannot sleep here.

The bathrooms are for other functions...none of which is sleeping.

The "sleepers" are for (you've got it) sleeping.

As the traveler says, you cannot book your trip in the SSL. Very easy to understand.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2013)

What rulebook?


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## yarrow (Aug 18, 2013)

yeah, what rulebook?


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## bobnjulie (Aug 18, 2013)

The book of common sense, which seems to be sadly lacking nowadays.

The book of humankindness, in which compassion and consideration and courtesy state that public places should be used by all the public and that seats you purchase are to be used for private activies, such as sleeping, drooling, etc.

The book of No Duh!, in which the world understood that when one purchased hot chocoate, one did not mean tepid chocolate.

The book in which one made choices in one's life... choose to spend money laying down in a private room or choose to be more thrify and sacrifice a portion of sleep for more cash in one's pocket.

Just my 2 cents... but it's like preaching to the deaf.  When I drive on the road, I encounter people who own the road and have not read the book and therefore cut me and shove in places and cut over from the far left lane. Therefore, when I am on the train, I should not be surprised to encounter the same people.

There is actually a beautiful commercial from Dignity Health regarding the worst of humankindness and the best. Some people will get it and others will not. Again, just my 2 cents and will not stop me from enjoying my train trip in my roomette or in my coach seat. I will experience the best and worst in people on the train as I do when I am working or driving or running errands. I am however blessed to have run in to an extrordinarily amount of kind, caring and compassionate people on the train and will focus on such during every trip.

Oh... and maybe I can do some random acts of kindness on my vacation if I happen to get particularly riled. Fun thought and one to keep uppermost on my to-do list.


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 18, 2013)

I am commonly told I lack common sense so I ask you what it says on this. I am disabled and on a tiny fixed income. I need to go see my parents. I am traveling alone. I have food allergies and will not risk a severe allergic reaction by eating anything prepared on the train. A roomette would cost 6% of my annual income roundtrip at the lowest bucket rate. I do not think a sleeper makes any sense. If I could get a sleeper at a price that did not include the cost of meals and a wine and cheese tasting I cannot eat or drink anything at it might make more sense.

I need lateral support to sit without significant pain. The only seat on a superliner I can get the support I need is at a table in the SSL. I am on the train overnight. Around 1 in the morning I put a pillow on the table and try to sleep. I wake up frequently. I cannot go back to sleep with people walking through so I generally stay awake after 5 in the morning. When someone wakes me up and asks if they can sit with me I put my pillow away and try to start a discussion. I have thought of bringing my ultralight wheelchair for another comfortable seat but I do not want to take that space away from someone who needs it to travel and I cannot sleep in my wheelchair.


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## jerichowhiskey (Aug 18, 2013)

Is there a view to be had at night? I figure Amtrak windows were all tinted and makes it hard to see anything lit anyhow.


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## MiRider (Aug 18, 2013)

Before I started traveling exclusively in sleepers, I *snoozed* in the SSL a few times.

One time was on the SWC and the Conductor pretty much hung out in one of the booths all night.

He DID NOT care and the majority of the other *snoozers* were women.

See.... when you can't choose your seatmate in coach, it's really weird to put yourself in the vulnerable position of sleeping next to a strange male.

Bad enough that the majority of men and I DO mean majority, don't know how to sit without splaying their legs and invading personal space.

If you don't or can't understand that, too bad.

I don't want to hear any 'what would you do if you had to fly overnight?' either because not a situation I intend to be in.

Anyway, that SWC trip was one of my favorites.

We all wound up hanging out with Rick, the Conductor, talking about trains and BBQ.

He even treated the gang to coffee when the Cafe opened.

I have NEVER seen the SSL filled up first thing in the morning - NEVER.

The conductors will clear any *snoozers* out by the time the cafe is open.

Stay in your roomette and you won't have to witness any liquid dribbling from the mouths of middle aged women trying to make their way in life.

SMDH!


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## JayPea (Aug 18, 2013)

My personal opinion and my personal opinion ONLY is that I don't think there's anything wrong with sleeping in the lounge so long as there's room for everyone who wishes a seat. At night, when very few are there, I don't see a problem. I have seen a conductor wake up everyone who was sleeping in the SSL, this at 6AM on the EB to Portland, but even then he only made them sit up and not leave. If someone is sleeping and taking up more than one space, then yes, they need to be awakened,


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## calwatch (Aug 18, 2013)

I agree. At night, no one is hurting anyone else, provided there is a space for someone to sit down and see the vast nothingness that is most of America that you pass through on the SSL late at night. On the other hand, you should not complain if the lounge car gets a little raucous either - there were some people tossing and turning as we were having a loud conversation in the lounge car, which is the place for those conversations at night (or quite frankly, at any hour in some instances). If it bothers you get earplugs.

Generally if it is solo passengers you tend to be assigned with someone of the same gender. I would hope most conductors do that as a matter of policy for trips that go on the overnight, to avoid any misunderstanding or misperception.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 18, 2013)

Once on a sold out Crescent my seatmate was very large and there was simply no way I could comfortably fit next to him. So glad that the OP was not on that train to police a policy that doesn't exist case my only option was to try to take a nap in the cafe car. One of the reasons I only travel in sleepers now for overnight.... I was in sad shape (tired) the next morning.


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## rrdude (Aug 18, 2013)

jerichowhiskey said:


> Is there a view to be had at night? I figure Amtrak windows were all tinted and makes it hard to see anything lit anyhow.


No, the problem with seeing at night is that Amtrak "thinks it's wise" to keep the INSIDE of the SSL lit up like christmas tree, so the reflection off the inside of the windows makes it virtually impossible to see anything OUTSIDE at night, unless you are looking at lights of city, urban area. Last month I actually turned off every single overhead light in the SSL, (that had a button to do so, same as the reading lights in coach) and boy was is nicer.... not great, but nicer


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 18, 2013)

This thread is making me sleepy.


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 18, 2013)

So if there is no written rule, why do some of the sleeper people become so upset about others sleeping in the lounge car? I can clearly understand if there are no seats open and they want to be in there and not wake up their co-passenger in their sleeper, but they already have nice flat beds to sleep on and should be sleeping themselves.

Of course because of my disability, I am stuck downstairs and never get a chance to even see the observation/sightseeing car so it does not matter to me, I am just wondering what the reason for the complaint.


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## SarahZ (Aug 18, 2013)

jerichowhiskey said:


> Is there a view to be had at night? I figure Amtrak windows were all tinted and makes it hard to see anything lit anyhow.


There are other reasons to use the SSL at night, such as reading or talking on your cell phone when it's after quiet hours. When I worked night shift, I often hung out in the SSL all night because I couldn't sleep. I didn't want my snack-munching to bother my seatmate, and I didn't want to turn the reading light on, so I went to the SSL.

Also, as Joanie states, I don't feel comfortable sleeping next to a strange man - not because I think he'd do anything; it just feels uncomfortable. I couldn't afford a roomette back then, so I'd sit in the SSL all night and then try to catnap during the day when my seatmate was in the SSL enjoying the view. More often than not, I just slept when I got to ABQ. It was only 26 hours, totally doable with coffee and walking outside during fresh air stops.

Anyway, I'll never forget one night when I was talking (quietly) on my cell phone and some guy with a sleeping bag kept glaring at me. I glared right back. The SSL is not a quiet sleeping car.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2013)

Is there an echo in here?

I'm also a little curious why June thinks that it's "sleeper people" that are complaining about this.


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## jebr (Aug 18, 2013)

People should be allowed to sleep in there if they so choose and they're not using up space that other people would be using, if the space was available, to sightsee or be louder at night than what would be allowed in the coach car. (Not just space that theoretically could be used, but actual customers going in there and not having room. I don't hear of that too often during night.) They should not expect it to be quiet, and people using it for other purposes should have priority, but if they want to sleep in there overnight and aren't causing other people trouble, what's the big deal?


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## Meat Puppet (Aug 18, 2013)

billthebarn said:


> Apparantly, that's the name given to coach passengers who go into the SSL to get a night's sleep. Some of these people do not know that this is against the rules. You are not allowed to sleep in the SSL overnight. Or the diner.
> Sometimes this rule is not enforced. That is management's fault. A few months ago I was on the TE and, after breakfast, I went to the SSL and got one of the few unoccupied seats. Not far from me was a sprawled out middle-aged woman sound asleep....taking up three seats. Meanwhile other passengers were looking for seats. The conductor came into the car and I thought "finally this situation will be rectified". He woke her and asked her destination. He then left and she went back to sleep....dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to see.
> 
> This lady, like others, probably doesn't know she was breaking the rules. Derelict Amtrak employees fail to enforce the rules. So it's partially up to us to make sure the NO SLEEPING OVERNIGHT IN THE LOUNGE rule is known. So when a person posts that he (or she) will be camping out in the SSL, let's set them straight.


Please take a picture next time so I can add it to my "Best of the Lounge Lizards" photo album.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 18, 2013)

Is there anyone who is a good artists who could make a caricature of a lounge lizard? Would be very funny.

For those of us who frequent steam excursions you could also make a drawing of "vestibule hogs" ha.


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## SarahZ (Aug 18, 2013)

jebr said:


> People should be allowed to sleep in there if they so choose and they're not using up space that other people would be using, if the space was available, to sightsee or be louder at night than what would be allowed in the coach car. (Not just space that theoretically could be used, but actual customers going in there and not having room. I don't hear of that too often during night.) They should not expect it to be quiet, and people using it for other purposes should have priority, but if they want to sleep in there overnight and aren't causing other people trouble, what's the big deal?


Precisely. I really don't care.


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## SarahZ (Aug 18, 2013)

June the Coach Rider said:


> So if there is no written rule, why do some of the sleeper people become so upset about others sleeping in the lounge car? I can clearly understand if there are no seats open and they want to be in there and not wake up their co-passenger in their sleeper, *but they already have nice flat beds to sleep on and should be sleeping themselves.*
> Of course because of my disability, I am stuck downstairs and never get a chance to even see the observation/sightseeing car so it does not matter to me, I am just wondering what the reason for the complaint.


Because some people are night owls? My boyfriend doesn't go to sleep until 3:00 AM most nights, and I usually don't go to bed until midnight or 1:00.


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2013)

Yeah, but we're snobby sleeper passengers so our opinions don't count.


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 18, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> June the Coach Rider said:
> 
> 
> > So if there is no written rule, why do some of the sleeper people become so upset about others sleeping in the lounge car? I can clearly understand if there are no seats open and they want to be in there and not wake up their co-passenger in their sleeper, *but they already have nice flat beds to sleep on and should be sleeping themselves.*
> ...


Oh,that makes sense. I don't know and that is why I asked. I can understand now that people would be needing the seats. Geez, being downstairs, I really do miss out on alot. :-(


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## benale (Aug 18, 2013)

If I have a seatmate on an overnight coach trip, I'll usually go to the Sightseer car overnight. It;s not as comfortable as a coach seat,but you can sit by yourself,and that's a plus. I really don't feel comfortable sharing a seat overnight with a stranger.


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## zepherdude (Aug 18, 2013)

Let people sleep where they can. No one uses that car at night and let em snooze. I have never seen the rule nor seen it enforced if there is a rule. This topic sounds like pure gossip.


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 18, 2013)

I have trouble with statements like those of the OP that go overboard. No sleeping in the SSL period. To bad for you if you have a 300+ pound seatmate, an active sleeper who keeps hitting you, your car smells like sewage or something burning, a seatmate of the opposite sex, etc. SSL benches are not comfortable to sleep on. They are rock hard and the raised edges of the table dig in. The floor vibrates horribly. Sleeping in the SSL is often an act of desperation. It is either sleep there or not sleep. I sleep sitting with my head on a pillow on the table. If anyone wakes me and asks to sit with me I welcome them. Loud middle of the night discussions are some of the best entertainment I have found on trains. Why are people lumping everyone who sleeps in the SSL together? People have claimed to have woken people up and been told off. They have obviously never encountered me. Most of the people here supporting SSL sleeping also support waking them up asking them to only take up one seat when there are no seats available. I have never been on a train where the SSL did not have empty seats late night/early morning and the train staff have always clear the sleepers before the cafe opens. I do not understand the hostility.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 18, 2013)

Next thing you know people will be crawling under the tables in the Diner to sleep or even just flop right across the table tops hboy:


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 18, 2013)

The diner is closed and while you can walk through the crew will not let anyone stay. I have watched people try to sleep on or under tables in the SSL. None lasted longer than 5 minutes if they settled down at all. No one really fit under the table. It is like a contortionist act when they try.

I observed one guy try to sleep in the middle aisle of the SSL. I objected. The conductor put a stop to that.


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## CHamilton (Aug 18, 2013)

TVRM610 said:


> Is there anyone who is a good artists who could make a caricature of a lounge lizard? Would be very funny.
> For those of us who frequent steam excursions you could also make a drawing of "vestibule hogs" ha.









Lounge Lizards: Calif. Man Puts Pet Lizards in Human Poses


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## rrdude (Aug 18, 2013)

Well, I was young at the time, not even 18, but the overhead luggage racks was quite comfortable, pre-Superliner days, nestled in my spleeping bag....


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## Skim (Aug 19, 2013)

Spinal problems prevent me from sleeping on my back in a quasi-sitting position. My choices are to lay on the floor or not sleep. If someone needed my space, I would move without argument.

A handful of individuals seem annoyed by the fact that they paid for sleepers, therefore no one else should enjoy any similar privileges. They seem to forget that they are just as free to buy a coach seat and sleep on the floor. Also, though I've never been able to afford a sleeper, I assume it's quite different from sleeping on the floor from 1-5 A.M. while others are entering and leaving, talking, etc.


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## Shawn Ryu (Aug 19, 2013)

Believe me, as a proud lounge lizard slob, I can tell you most of us will have the sense and decency to not take up space from anyone who wants to relax in the SSL.

And most of us will wake up waaay before people start coming back to SSL.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 19, 2013)

How does someone sleeping in the SSL know if people are or are not coming into the SSL looking for seats while they're sleeping? Just curious.


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## Ryan (Aug 19, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> How does someone sleeping in the SSL know if people are or are not coming into the SSL looking for seats while they're sleeping? Just curious.


Great question...


Skim said:


> A handful of individuals seem annoyed by the fact that they paid for sleepers, therefore no one else should enjoy any similar privileges.


Did I miss some invisible tag that lets you and June know who the sleeper passengers are that lets you know that it's some kind of "coach vs. sleeper" argument?


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## amamba (Aug 19, 2013)

bobnjulie said:


> The book of common sense, which seems to be sadly lacking nowadays.
> *The book of humankindness, in which compassion and consideration and courtesy *state that public places should be used by all the public and that seats you purchase are to be used for private activies, such as sleeping, drooling, etc.
> 
> The book of No Duh!, in which the world understood that when one purchased hot chocoate, one did not mean tepid chocolate.
> ...


Hrmrm, it seems to me that the book of "humankindness" filled with compassion and courtesy would realize that some people cannot sleep in the coaches, and thus, one would be kind while they slept in the lounge.

We must have different thoughts of "random acts of kindness". Because a random act of kindness to me seems like it would be letting some folks sleep in the lounge.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm writing this from a lounge car on the Empire Builder... The Problem is not people who sleep... The problem is older couples sitting across from each other in the middle of the booths thereby taking up 4 seats for only 2 people. And others putting backpacks and such on empty seats.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 19, 2013)

TVRM610 said:


> I'm writing this from a lounge car on the Empire Builder... The Problem is not people who sleep... The problem is older couples sitting across from each other in the middle of the booths thereby taking up 4 seats for only 2 people. And others putting backpacks and such on empty seats.


What makes me mad about this is when the Lounge gets taken over in high-scenery areas such as Donner Pass, Columbia River or Glenwood Canyon by folks who waste space by getting on computers, texting machines or games, shutting out people who would like to be able to relax and enjoy the scenery and perhaps the commentary from Trails and Rails if there is one.


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 19, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> How does someone sleeping in the SSL know if people are or are not coming into the SSL looking for seats while they're sleeping? Just curious.


I am a lite sleeper so I wake up almost every time a door opens, the train slows down, people are talking, going around a tight turn. Read my other posts. If by some miracle someone finds me deeply asleep feel free to wake me up if you need a seat and there are no free tables. I do not claim to be aware while I am sleeping but I generally only stay asleep for 20-30 minutes at a time during the slowest part of the night. Since I am sitting I look around when I wake up. I intentionally travel during the middle of the week preferably during slow season. Usually only one or two other tables are occupied. The door wakes me up when people start to gather for coffee in the morning.


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## billthebarn (Aug 19, 2013)

None of the responders here defended the middle-aged dribbling woman who was taking up three seats. Others (one proud lounge lizard lol!) admitted to and gave their reasons for sleeping in the SSL. Some reported that conductors woke the sleepers up at 6 AM and cleared the lounge.

There are many anecdotes. One person said one coach seat wasn't big enough.

What is the AMTRAK policy for SSL operation? Can one of our moderators procure it? If there is a policy, shouldn't Amtrak personel enforce it? If it is OK to bed down in the lounge, perhaps some people can bring pillows and sleeping bags onboard. Free up some roomettes and bedrooms.

Alan, Jis, Traveler, Ryan et al, can someone find out for sure?


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## amamba (Aug 19, 2013)

billthebarn said:


> None of the responders here defended the middle-aged dribbling woman who was taking up three seats. Others (one proud lounge lizard lol!) admitted to and gave their reasons for sleeping in the SSL. Some reported that conductors woke the sleepers up at 6 AM and cleared the lounge.
> There are many anecdotes. One person said one coach seat wasn't big enough.
> 
> What is the AMTRAK policy for SSL operation? Can one of our moderators procure it? If there is a policy, shouldn't Amtrak personel enforce it? If it is OK to bed down in the lounge, perhaps some people can bring pillows and sleeping bags onboard. Free up some roomettes and bedrooms.
> ...


Read through the blue book and let us know if you find anything:

http://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf


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## Ryan (Aug 19, 2013)

I've read it, it ain't in there.

This "rule" seems to be completely made up and the burden of proof should be on those claiming it's a rule to actually provide some documentation to back it up.

Personally, I'd rather not have Amtrak conductors going around enforcing whatever they feel like the rules should be. There's a blue book for a reason, and we should stick to it.


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## SarahZ (Aug 19, 2013)

I love that lounge lizard graphic.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 19, 2013)

I don't think there is anything that either limits coach passengers to sleeping in their coach seats, or prohibits passengers from being in the lounge overnight. While the practice is to prohibit using the diner as an off-hours lounge (also not mentioned in the printed standards), it also seems to be the practice to allow occupancy of the lounge overnight. As long as the aisle is kept clear for safety, that is the way it is. One way to look at it is that the SSL is about 175,000 pounds of steel that might as well be used for something overnight.

I think the issue really to how miserable Amtrak coach seats are for sleeping, or even sitting. If the seats were comfortable and provided some minimal separation by having an armrest between the paired seats, then maybe there would not be a desire for coach passengers to sack out on the lounge car.


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)

below is a picture of someone's bad experience on a plane... but I've experience a similar thing on Amtrak Capitol Limited... a woman behind me who looked like a high school librarian kept putting her feet up... it was the middle of the night, but still.... I straightened/reclined my seat a few time and she finally gave up and put her feet down. :help:

people can be annoying... on Amtrak, on planes... everywhere...  just have to learn to deal with it.


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)

at least it want' this:


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)

follow-up pics... (again, on planes, not Amtrak)


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)




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## PRR 60 (Aug 19, 2013)

*Snowplow* - Great Pictures! LOL


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## jebr (Aug 19, 2013)

I just checked in the newest one as well. As far as I can tell, there's no rule either way there either. Apparently it's still not a big enough "problem" for Amtrak to feel that it needs to stop those dang lounge lizards from taking up all that space in the middle of the night.


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)

jebr said:


> I just checked in the newest one as well. As far as I can tell, there's no rule either way there either. Apparently it's still not a big enough "problem" for Amtrak to feel that it needs to stop those dang lounge lizards from taking up all that space in the middle of the night.


new rules that Amtrak should consider:

(1) no sleeping except in your assigned seat (or bedroom)

(2) no pointless chatting after finishing your meal in the dining car (others are waiting to eat)

(3) must flush toilet

(4) no banging noises from roomette/bedrooms

(5) crying babies only allowed 5 minutes of crying time for each hour on the train 

and the final and most important one:

(6) don't order Domino's Pizza and make the driver wait at the next stop... I once saw a Domino's driver with 6 pizza standing on the platform waiting for the Crescent. Apparently somebody on the train called ahead...


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## CHamilton (Aug 19, 2013)

Snowplow said:


> (6) don't order Domino's Pizza and make the driver wait at the next stop... I once saw a Domino's driver with 6 pizza standing on the platform waiting for the Crescent. Apparently somebody on the train called ahead...


Except when it's the crew who called for the delivery  I actually saw a delivery driver waiting for a Cascades train in the Bellingham station recently, and sure enough, the crew was sharing the pizzas in the bistro after we got underway.


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## Snowplow (Aug 19, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> Snowplow said:
> 
> 
> > (6) don't order Domino's Pizza and make the driver wait at the next stop... I once saw a Domino's driver with 6 pizza standing on the platform waiting for the Crescent. Apparently somebody on the train called ahead...
> ...


true... but the one I saw was ordered by two semi-drunk geeky college kids. 

When they came back on the train with the pizzas, they yelled "WE GOT P-I-Z-Z-A!!!!"

The two of them proceeded to finished the 6 pizzas all by themselves.

God... I missed the good old days when I could eat two large pizzas by myself.


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## Ryan (Aug 19, 2013)

1: Why?

2: Not always.

3: Sure. Who's going to police that?

4: Why just banging?

5: Utterly unworkable.

6: Why not?


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## roomette (Aug 19, 2013)

Depends on what you mean by 'banging'


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 19, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anyone who is a good artists who could make a caricature of a lounge lizard? Would be very funny.
> ...


 Great find Charlie, you gotta Love it!


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 19, 2013)

Snowplow said:


> (1) no sleeping except in your assigned seat (or bedroom)


Do you get a pass on this if they do not give you your assigned seat? Last time I was ticketed for a LL seat on the CS because I cannot go up and down the stairs while the train is moving and I did not want to have a bathroom emergency. They split cars by destination with all passengers going to SAC and beyond in one car. When I got on they were explaining to the party in front of me who were also ticketed for the LL that the elderly blind mobility impaired lady's one companion could not sit with her and had to go upstairs because there were not enough seats. I was disgusted enough to inform her she could have my seat and since I my ticket was already scanned I was going to the SSL. I never had a seat on that 15 hour trip. The next morning I went down to use the bathroom and sat on my walker the rest of the ride. The best part was I found out half way through the night the LL seating in the "local" car was almost empty the whole time.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 19, 2013)

mjaynes288 said:


> Snowplow said:
> 
> 
> > (1) no sleeping except in your assigned seat (or bedroom)
> ...


That's just plain wrong. It sounds like a TA on a power trip. That is terrible and I'd like to know if there is any logical explanation why that should happen, especially when the LL has available seats.


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 19, 2013)

mjaynes288 said:


> Snowplow said:
> 
> 
> > (1) no sleeping except in your assigned seat (or bedroom)
> ...


I had a trip on the SL/TE where someone ended up sitting on the step stool in their train because there were no more lower level seats in their assigned car. We got about a half mile outside the station, still on rail property and we stopped again and that person was given a seat in our car which was going on to CHI, the person was getting off in Palm Springs. The conductor said for her to make sure she was awake and to be ready to get off as she was the only one in that car getting off. I am really surprised that the conductor did not do something similar for you.


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## billthebarn (Aug 20, 2013)

If these lounge lizards are allowed to sleep in the SSL they're probably allowed to eat in the diner. "Oh,no, a lounge lizard is joining our table!"

Can't we at least spray paint them while they're sleeping so we can identify them later in the trip?


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## jerichowhiskey (Aug 20, 2013)

Regarding your recent post in the other thread, it states until midnight to buy something to eat or drink in the lounge. (p. 10-11). It does not exclude people from being in the lounge. Otherwise all you people complaining about those sleeping wouldn't be in there either. :giggle:


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## jimhudson (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm not one that is bothered by people sleeping in the Lounge, on the Floors in Coaches (I find this uncomfortable myself!) or anywhere else @ Night but the Seat Hogs that take Naps in the Daytime, put Sweaters, Bags etc. in Lounge Seats to "save" seats while their companions take a Nap, a Shower, Eat etc. is a real PITA!!! Also a Pet Peeve of the LSAs are those Passengers who show up in heir Pajamas, Robes, Slippers etc. for Breakfast after a Night of Sleep in the Lounge, Coach or even Sleeper!(this is a Rule about Proper Footwear and Clothing)

As to a "Rule" about Lounge Sleeping, the Conductors make this decison, most couldnt care less before 6AM, Ive only seen 2 instances of where they ran off Lounge lLzards, once on #1 and once on #3!


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## billthebarn (Aug 20, 2013)

MRFSS, Alan, JIS, RYAN, the_traveler, et al

All I could find in the BLUE BOOK was that the lounge closes at midnight. That didn't seem to settle the issue...one poster said that only applied to sales. So let me put this in the form of a question. You are the Amtrak agent and you get the following call:

"I going from Chicago to San Francisco. I am bringing my pillow and sleeping bag. I plan to sleep in the SSL. Is that permissible? If so, do have to be up at a certain time, or can I lay their all day long?

Everyone can guess. Does anyone have the official position of Amtrak?


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## amamba (Aug 20, 2013)

billthebarn said:


> Everyone can guess. Does anyone have the official position of Amtrak?


That is the beauty of amtrak. If you call a phone agent, you will often be given a different answer multiple times.

As always, with all things amtrak, I just say "YMMV" (your mileage may vary).

The closet thing we have, as rail fans, to any rules is the aforementioned blue book and the rules published by AGR insider over on flyer talk for AGR redemptions.


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## billthebarn (Aug 20, 2013)

jim_hudson,

I'm not bothered by it either, if it takes place during the night. The incident which I witnessed had a "lizard" spralwed out over three seats, dribbling out of her mouth, while others were looking for seats. (that was on your train, by the way. LOL)

A poster named Junebug suggested she was going to sleep in the SSL. Your buddy, the_traveler admonished her. Ryan, in turn, admonished the_traveler. Made me wonder what the official policy was.

With all the "experts" here, thought getting a correct answer would be easy.


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## cirdan (Aug 20, 2013)

jerichowhiskey said:


> Is there a view to be had at night? I figure Amtrak windows were all tinted and makes it hard to see anything lit anyhow.


 I though the lights were turned down when it gets dark?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 20, 2013)

billthebarn said:


> jim_hudson,
> I'm not bothered by it either, if it takes place during the night. The incident which I witnessed had a "lizard" spralwed out over three seats, dribbling out of her mouth, while others were looking for seats. (that was on your train, by the way. LOL)
> 
> A poster named Junebug suggested she was going to sleep in the SSL. Your buddy, the_traveler admonished her. Ryan, in turn, admonished the_traveler. Made me wonder what the official policy was.
> ...


Nothing is ever Easy when it comes to Amtrak and we besides, we have Lots of Opinions here @ AU!


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## VentureForth (Aug 20, 2013)

I really love going into the Sightseer Lounge in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. Making station stops in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night is just sorta fun. I will say that it does detract from the experience if there are sleepers all around. But if I can find the space to sightsee, I won't complain.

One thing to keep in mind is that after 10 PM until around 6 AM (sometimes later), the coaches are designated to be quiet time. To socialize, chatter, play cards, dominos, etc., you HAVE to go to the SSL.

I've mentioned this in a trip log before, but one trip, the conductor actually blockaded access to the downstairs during the night. There is no real reason to do so. Cafe car's stuff is secured and locked. There's a bathroom down there, and more tables to enjoy the passing scenery.

And during a full moon, or better yet a thunderstorm, you may be surprised at what scenery you can enjoy in the middle of the night.


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## MiRider (Aug 20, 2013)

Some of the comments in this thread are bordering on Troll-like behavior.



billthebarn said:


> .....A few months ago I was on the TE and, after breakfast, I went to the SSL and got one of the few unoccupied seats. Not far from me was a sprawled out middle-aged woman sound asleep....taking up three seats. Meanwhile other passengers were looking for seats. The conductor came into the car and I thought "finally this situation will be rectified". He woke her and asked her destination. He then left and she went back to sleep....dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to see....


As for the _ 'sprawled out, middle aged woman dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to_ see', it would be almost impossible to see what was coming out of her mouth.

Invariably, people that sleep on the 3 seaters will put their head and torso on the 2 straight seats and their legs and feet over the curved hard part.

Meaning that _'sprawled out, middle aged woman dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to_ see', - SMDH - would be facing the windows straight on.

Exactly who are the *all* in_ for all to see_?

Did you decide to sit on the 3 seater next to her and then crane your neck so you could get a better view?

Or did you decide to come up with this *tale* because junebug has identified herself as a middle aged woman who plans to sleep in the SSL?

Based on this alone...



billthebarn said:


> None of the responders here defended the middle-aged dribbling woman who was taking up three seats.


 It seems to me that he wants to stir the pot, troll, and throw some passive aggressive insults around.

I know what I think and nothing outside of a time stamped pic of billthebarn.....

Him.....sitting in his seat that had such a good view of the _'sprawled out, middle aged woman dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to_ see'

Nothing short of that, with him also holding that day's newspaper and a fish on his head will convince me otherwise.


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## berkyo (Aug 20, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm writing this from a lounge car on the Empire Builder... The Problem is not people who sleep... The problem is older couples sitting across from each other in the middle of the booths thereby taking up 4 seats for only 2 people. And others putting backpacks and such on empty seats.
> ...


Well, yes. I agree a bit with you. Our first CZ ride was so exciting and the SScar was packed. 2 tables across from each other at the end of the car (8 people) were playing cards and drinking alcohol of some kind. Bloody Mary's ? Dp they serve them? They were not unruly but they were having fun and talking non stop and laughing. Good times. But the Park people were on board and we were sitting 2 tables form the card players. We could not hear a word the Park guide said. We sat with a couple that had been on the ride many times and brought their route pamphlet - we did not have one - They told us what was interesting along the way. If it were not during a program in the car, I would have been thinking how nice that we can relax and have fun while traveling - unlike a plane or bus ride. But we were disappointed. It's just the way it is.

On out first EB ride it was late May and lots of kids traveling from school, I had trouble sleeping. A headache and sinus problems. I went to the SScar to sit and listen to music. I was surprised to see a few of college kids flat out on the floor under the windows sound asleep. The car was empty and they were not in the way. One could not sit where they were without stepping on them but there were other seats to use. I thought it was a great idea and if I were younger, I would have done that too. As long as there is not a rule against it. Common sense should prevail.


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## roomette (Aug 20, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> Some of the comments in this thread are bordering on Troll-like behavior.
> As for the_ 'sprawled out, middle aged woman dribbling liquid from her mouth for all to_ see', it would be almost impossible to see what was coming out of her mouth.
> 
> Invariably, people that sleep on the 3 seaters will put their head and torso on the 2 straight seats and their legs and feet over the curved hard part.
> ...


Who are you scolding?


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## MiRider (Aug 20, 2013)

roomette said:


> Who are you scolding?


Now that you mention it, I need to make that clear to those not following..... off to edit.

Btw... billthebarn, the OP and anyone else with his attitude.


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## benjibear (Aug 20, 2013)

I don't have a problem with anyone sprawled out in the lounge car as long as nobody else wants to use it.

On my trip on the CL, I couldn't sleep at daybreak (it was June so it was early, probably about 5 AM). There were people sleeping on the 3 seats. They didn't bother me and I didn't bother them. It was beautiful rolling through the country, with just enough light to see, and quiet deserted towns somewhere in Ohio. I sat there for an hour and eventually struck up a conversation with a woman looking for when the next smoke stop was.

To the OP, mind your own business. Don't get your panties all twisted for something that doesn't affect you.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 20, 2013)

For those who do camp out in the _*SSL*_ and expect to get a hard night's sleep, morning will come fast and early when first arrivals come in to do what that car is intended for-lounging. On my last _*Texas Eagle*_ run there was a lad curled up with blanket and pillow on one of the 3 pack seats and he was grousing to no end when all the noise and traffic disturbed his sleep at 0900!


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## billthebarn (Aug 20, 2013)

JoanieB,

In a prior thread, I mentioned this episode. Within the last two months. I'm not adept at the computer but I just tried to find my original post. I failed; maybe you can find it. At the time I was surprised that the conductor woke her only to determine her destination. She told him. He left. He didn't tell her to move. She went back to sleep. This took place after I had eaten breakfast...probably about 10 AM. The lounge was filling up and some people could not find seats. It didn't have a thing to do with Junebug as you imply.

I have seen one person here opine that taking up three seats (whether sleeping or not) is OK. Since then I have been trying to find if Amtrak has an official policy. I don't suppose you know. If I learn of one, I'll keep you posted.


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## the_traveler (Aug 20, 2013)

I tried to stay out of this thread, but I must comment on a few of the posts.

I have personally witnessed a "lizard" trying to make herself comfortable for sleeping. How do I know that? :huh: she brought with her to the SSL a pillow and sleeping bag! And this was not at midnight - but 4-5 Pm!

When told by the LSA she can't sleep there, she basically said to him "F you"! So he went to get the conductor. As soon as he entered the SSL, the women left.

And, there ARE things to see out the windows at night. For one thing, stars. Another is the houses, farms and towns you pass. Another is on clear, full moon nights the scenery is beautiful. Another is things like the decent down Cajon Pass on the SWC. (That happens about 5 am or so.)


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## SarahZ (Aug 20, 2013)

billthebarn said:


> If these lounge lizards are allowed to sleep in the SSL they're probably allowed to eat in the diner. "Oh,no, a lounge lizard is joining our table!"
> Can't we at least spray paint them while they're sleeping so we can identify them later in the trip?


Everyone is allowed to eat in the diner, Coach or sleeper, and should be welcomed to do so. Don't be so classist.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 20, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> billthebarn said:
> 
> 
> > If these lounge lizards are allowed to sleep in the SSL they're probably allowed to eat in the diner. "Oh,no, a lounge lizard is joining our table!"
> ...


To be fair, I think that suggestion was sarcasm.


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## roomette (Aug 20, 2013)

PRR 60 said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > billthebarn said:
> ...


Is spray paint allowed on board?


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## MiRider (Aug 20, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> I tried to stay out of this thread, but I must comment on a few of the posts.
> *I have personally witnessed a "lizard" trying to make herself comfortable for sleeping.* How do I know that? :huh: she brought with her to the SSL a pillow and sleeping bag! And this was not at midnight - but 4-5 Pm!
> 
> When told by the LSA she can't sleep there, she basically said to him "F you"! So he went to get the conductor. As soon as he entered the SSL, the women left.
> ...


A lizard? Herself? Really?!?!? What she sprawled out and middle aged too?

Puhleeeeez and at 4 - 5 pm no less?

Another tale with absolutely no proof.

Even if it is true, which I highly doubt, it is an anomaly in regard to people that sleep in the SSL.

The SSL is bustling at those hours and it would be hard to take 3 seats for yourself, much less sleep without raising the ire of both employees and passengers.

People are waiting to for their res in the diner, the snack bar is busy, it's cocktail hour, etc.

It seems that there are some poor, pitiful posters in this thread who are consistently unable to find seats in the SSL in the middle of the night.

If you want to further your cause, take some pics of the packed to the gills SSLs that you seem to encounter on, what seems like, every train you take.

SMDH!


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## MiRider (Aug 20, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> billthebarn said:
> 
> 
> > If these lounge lizards are allowed to sleep in the SSL they're probably allowed to eat in the diner. "Oh,no, a lounge lizard is joining our table!"
> ...





PRR 60 said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > billthebarn said:
> ...


To be fair, imo, sarcastic and classist.

There was an idiot at my table on one of my EB trips who actually asked 'Don't you think coach passengers are jealous of us?'

WTH? Why? They know you're special because you sign your check? Idiot (looked like one too).

Trust me, I didn't let that one slip.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 20, 2013)

It amazes me how some people think others are making up stories.

Obviously, to them, these stories can't be true because THEY never saw these things themselves.


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## tp49 (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm just as amazed at people who accuse others of trolling then do the exact same thing they are accusing others of to posters who are not of the same opinion as them.


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## MiRider (Aug 20, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It amazes me how some people think others are making up stories.Obviously, to them, these stories can't be true because THEY never saw these things themselves.


Because it's always the same, overwrought types of posts

I said highly doubt, which I do.

And certain people here don't like coach passengers and go out of their way to be insulting.

Just the way I see it.



tp49 said:


> I'm just as amazed at people who accuse others of trolling then do the exact same thing they are accusing others of to posters who are not of the same opinion as them.


Well, that's too bad and just your opinion.

The persistent bashing by certain members of those that don't travel sleeper class on this forum is tiresome.

I've posted here enough not to be accused of trolling.

I also do my best to be helpful when I have some of value to offer someone but this is not one of those times as this thread was started for no other reason than pot stirring and that is JMO.

Don't like it, like I said, too bad.


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 20, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > It amazes me how some people think others are making up stories.Obviously, to them, these stories can't be true because THEY never saw these things themselves.
> ...


Thank you, I have to agree, there are several people on this forum that " don't like coach passengers and go out of their way to be insulting" I have been on the receiving end of one in particular who seems to always call me out when I agree with others who have said the exact same thing. But I have gotten to the point where I won't even address that person, I won't give him the time of day. I am disabled and that includes both physically and mentally because I have fibromyalgia, it causes brain fog and the loss of the ability to say things exactly right. So I found that when I incorrectly spell something or say something that he does not agree with, instead of just stating his opinion, he mentions me and calls me out. I wish I was as perfect as he wants me to be, but God gave me these disabilities and I do the best I can with them despite him.


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## the_traveler (Aug 20, 2013)

(AU member speaking)

I didn't want to post again in this thread, but I must correct the belief that

I do not like coach passengers

I only ride sleeper

I never ride coach

Etc...

I have ridden coach many times, even overnight - including the following trips:

NYP-BHM

BHM-WAS

PDX-MTZ

RNO-SLC

ALB-CHI

DEN-LAS

And even LAX to Jacksonville (when the SL-East still ran)


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## June the Coach Rider (Aug 20, 2013)

the_traveler, Not sure if you are posting in regard to my post, but I was definitely not speaking of you.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 20, 2013)

And posts by coach passengers accusing sleeper passengers of being snobs is also tiring.


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## SarahZ (Aug 20, 2013)

PRR 60 said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > billthebarn said:
> ...


Considering his tone throughout the thread (and in other, similar, threads), it was hard to take it that way. My apologies if it was sarcasm, but I'm still irked that this is such a Big Deal if the SSL isn't full and they leave at 6:00 AM. If they are hurting anything or anyone or taking up space that is needed/wanted, who cares?


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 20, 2013)

How many times are we gonna beat this topic to death?


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## the_traveler (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes, I agree. Can we please agree to disagree. And this is being posted as an AU member only.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 21, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I tried to stay out of this thread, but I must comment on a few of the posts.
> ...


Last time I rode Amtrak, a group of four 20-ish guys blcoked out the SSL with sleeping bags and improvised pillows. No one came to enforece the rules.

Sure, I don't have proof of it, but I'm not making this up! And you know I would not do this, since I had a Roomette. Just because people don't have proof dosen't mean they're lying. Lots of sotiors out there in the Web have no comcrete proof, but you can't just say that's they all making it up.

With regards to Dave's story, I have seen quite a few seats empty around mid-afternoon if the train is not in a popular scenic spot. So his sotry is not totally baseless.

Can we just all be fair here and chill with this arguing?


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## Sarah Kirschbaum (Aug 21, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...



I'm confused.... didn't someone posted earlier that there are no official Amtrak rules against sleeping in SSL? Or did I read that wrong?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 21, 2013)

Your quote looks a bit weird, but I was trying to show that proof in pictures isn't that important more so than directly ranting about lounge lizards. Still, it would not be very nice to block out the Sightseer after dinner at 8 pm. Lots of people want to socialize there.



Sarah Kirschbaum said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > JoanieB said:
> ...


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## Anderson (Aug 21, 2013)

Locking for review. Please, _please_ try to keep things civil.

Edit: Sorry for the brief service disruption...needed to clean up a bit of a spill. Please carry on and refrain from insulting one another.


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## VentureForth (Aug 21, 2013)

JoanieB - I think that the_traveller is well more than experienced enough (both as a rider and a poster/moderator) to make up a story like that. Besides, I think you missed the point right after that where he said she was prompty removed - her actions, according to Dave, were THAT deliberate.

So let's all sing Kum Bah Yah (which I found out was a phrase originated in the SC/GA Gulla area, meaning "Come By Here")...

But let's only sing it acapella, until midnight, in the Lounge, then quiety retire to our seats if we're ready to go to sleep.... Or your roomette... Or bedroom... not that there is anything better or wrong with any of the aforementioned. When we come together in the Lounge we are all, you see, simply passengers on our (could be) great(er) transcontinental rail journey as well as passengers together on the transcedental journey of Life, pursuing happiness.

[blech - I'm gonna puke]


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 21, 2013)

> JoanieB - I think that the_traveller is well more than experienced enough (both as a rider and a poster/moderator) to make up a story like that. Besides, I think you missed the point right after that where he said she was prompty removed - her actions, according to Dave, were THAT deliberate.
> So let's all sing Kum Bah Yah (which I found out was a phrase originated in the SC/GA Gulla area, meaning "Come By Here")...
> 
> But let's only sing it acapella, until midnight, in the Lounge, then quiety retire to our seats if we're ready to go to sleep.... Or your roomette... Or bedroom... not that there is anything better or wrong with any of the aforementioned. When we come together in the Lounge we are all, you see, simply passengers on our (could be) great(er) transcontinental rail journey as well as passengers together on the transcedental journey of Life, pursuing happiness.
> ...


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## Shawn Ryu (Aug 22, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


See that is unacceptable.

SSL should be open for anyone to use. Sleeping in SSL is a luxury that only should be taken when its empty And this is coming from the forum's Lounge Lizard rep.

Although like I said I have never seen SSL full 2 in the morning (my sleep time on train). Even on a full Capitol Limited.

And I think I remember snack bar being opened late at night, I bought coffee and beer, and had good time till 3AM on Coast Starlight.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 22, 2013)

I admit I am guilty of sleeping in the _*Pacific Parlour Car*_! I enjoy wandering in there after about 10 or so when the crowd has thinned out or even disappeared and nesting in one of the Swivels to watch the scenery and enjoy a "Private Car" experience. But more often than not a nap attack takes hold and I doze off for an hour or so before waking back up, piddling around a little more and finally transferring back to my Roomette.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 25, 2013)

Meat Puppet said:


> http://www.flickr.co...N02/8998557692/



Link not working for me...


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## bgiaquin (Aug 26, 2013)

Snowplow said:


> (5) crying babies only allowed 5 minutes of crying time for each hour on the train


I was on the EB to Seattle back in 2010 and there was a baby that screamed it's lungs out every probably 10 minutes, day and night. I 100 % agree with this rule!


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## junebug (Sep 26, 2013)

I found out what a Lounge Lizard really is.

My last trip a couple of weeks ago, I was up until 5 in the morning being regaled with stories by one of the conductors. I never knew people could do such "immoral" things on the train. Obviously, I was spellbound, and could not stop listening to his stories. He laughed when I told him you guys called me a lounge lizard.

His definition of a lounge lizard?
A woman who dresses very ordinary, gets on the train and travels coast to coast when she knows there will be a lot of business guys traveling. She chats some guy up, and says, "Hey, I've got a room.....".

Rinse and repeat, coast to coast.


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## junebug (Sep 26, 2013)

...You probably don't want to hear that conductor's definition of a "foamer".


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## Trainmans daughter (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> I found out what a Lounge Lizard really is.
> 
> My last trip a couple of weeks ago, I was up until 5 in the morning being regaled with stories by one of the conductors. I never knew people could do such "immoral" things on the train. Obviously, I was spellbound, and could not stop listening to his stories. He laughed when I told him you guys called me a lounge lizard.
> 
> ...


After the day I just had, I really needed a good laugh. Thanks for that, Junebug!


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

So it's the train version of a bar fly. That's funny.


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## tp49 (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> ...You probably don't want to hear that conductor's definition of a "foamer".


Now that you put it out there I do want to hear. :giggle:


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

SarahZ said:


> So it's the train version of a bar fly. That's funny.


not really a bar fly (as I understand the term), more of a camp follower/lot lizard.


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## the_traveler (Sep 27, 2013)

Couldn't be a bar "fly". No animals allowed on Amtrak, but somehow the "lizards" get on board!


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

So it's probably three in the morning at this point. The conductor and I are sitting in the downstairs lounge. I can't stop listening to him. I know I should be asleep, and I can't keep my eyes open, but something is compelling me to keep listening to these stories. Here's one he told me.

Sometimes foamers manage to get on the trains dressed as conductors. If the staff catches them, the foamers get kicked off the train. Even if they have a ticket. He said that the foamers have special radios. They are are so into the whole Amtrak thing, that they will come up to the Amtrak staff, saying something like "You just said we will get into the next stop at 3:50." Then the foamer will say that's not right, his radio thing says they were supposed be there at 3:48.

I still didn't understand what a foamer was, so I asked the conductor again, "What's a foamer?" He said, "A foamer is someone that is so into train stuff, that sometimes they will even go around dressed up as Amtrak employees." The real employees find these guys in the stations, pretending to work for Amtrak. The foamers go around the Amtrak stations, giving directions to lost passengers or helping with luggage, whatever a real Amtrak employee will do.

There was a reason I couldn't stop listening to the conductor who was telling me story after story. It was probably about four in the morning by now. I was basically sitting there with my eyes propped open, falling asleep, but afraid I would miss something if I left. I was absolutely enthralled with these stories until five in the morning.

Now...

I don't suppose you want to hear the dirty stories the conductor told me. Or do you?


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

And... by the way, if you want to hear the rest of the stories, whoever called me a lounge lizard for sleeping in the observation car, AND corrected me, saying that it's not an observation car, it's a bla bla bla car....

.....needs to apologize to me.

The conductor said he could care less if people sleep wherever they want on the train, as long as he doesn't trip over them.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 27, 2013)

Sounds like a great Trip! Still a few Old Timers left that tell Wonderful Stories! More! More! 

And i'm Shocked! Shocked! to know that Women like that "Friendly Lounge Lizard" ride Amtrak! :lol:


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

Dressing as an employee and acting like you work for Amtrak? Wow. That's a whole new level of crazy. When I talked to a car attendant about "foamers", we were talking about people who wait by the tracks to take pictures, people who LOVE riding the train, etc. I'd never heard about anyone going so far as to impersonate employees. That's so weird. I probably would have stayed up late too. I love stories like that.


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## Gene (Sep 27, 2013)

The train is always an adventure. I use sleepers now, but I have empathy and sympathy for my fellow passengers who need sleep and can't get it in the coach car. Lighten up and enjoy the adventure.


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

It truly IS an adventure! I think that's why I am an Amtrak addict  It's always a magical experience for me. I had a sleeper, the one with the shower, one way on my last trip. Truthfully? I like Coach better. I know, I'm a weirdo.


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> And... by the way, if you want to hear the rest of the stories, whoever called me a lounge lizard for sleeping in the observation car, AND corrected me, saying that it's not an observation car, it's a bla bla bla car....
> 
> .....needs to apologize to me.
> 
> The conductor said he could care less if people sleep wherever they want on the train, as long as he doesn't trip over them.


So if you were presented with a conductor that told you it was against the rules, would you accept that it was?



My point is that the word of a conductor doesn't much matter either way. The rules aren't defined by one man (or woman)*, but by what is written down. As yet, no citation for a "no sleeping in the lounge" rule has been provided.

*other than in the sense that if you don't follow whatever the conductor claims the rules are, you open yourself the possibility of getting put from the train at the next convenient location.


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

The point is, on my very first post here of this year, I got my ass chewed out by fanatic foamers on this forum for using incorrect terms and for sleeping in the observation car  

But... some people did say it was ridiculous to treat a new member that way, and that wasn't in the spirit of the original guy who started this forum, to be rude to newcomers.


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

And what the conductor had to say had little to nothing to do with either the correct naming of cars (which you may recall I supported you on) or the legality of sleeping in that car (which I also supported you on), so using that as "evidence" on which to demand an apology seems a little illogical.


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## the_traveler (Sep 27, 2013)

Just like anywhere else (either on Amtrak, on the phone or at some other company), if you ask 10 employees are "What is the rule for ______?", you're likely to get 11-13 different answers of "the official rule"!


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

It really does depend on the conductor. Some are okay with it; some aren't. Most of the conductors I've met don't care as long as they aren't creating a trip hazard or blocking seats (which is why people get chased out when the lounge starts to fill up before breakfast). When in doubt, you could just ask (and maybe you'd get to hear more stories!)

As for the wrong name for the car, I'm sorry people flipped out. I know it's called the SSL, but many, many people I know call it "the observation car". Truthfully, so did I until I started reading this forum and learned the correct term.  I don't correct people mid-conversation, and neither do employees when people ask how to get to "the observation car". I've even heard employees say "the observation car" since it's a generic term most people are familiar with, sort of like saying you're from Detroit instead of a little suburb people aren't familiar with. I'm sorry you felt picked on.

I've been riding Amtrak for several years, and I'm still learning about it. I didn't know what "trucks" were until Alan mentioned them a few weeks ago. I just called it "the wheel mounts". But now I know what trucks are and how the wheels attach to them.


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

Thanks you guys   

I appreciate how knowledgeable a lot of you are. I can see how this would annoy some of you you because you know the proper names, procedures, rules, etc, and I don't. The thing is, and I apologize in advance, but I really don't care what the right terms are.

The main thing I care about is courtesy to each other.

I am the moderator of a few Facebook groups. If people are rude or nasty to other people, I send them a message asking them not to do it. If they keep being mean to people, I kick them out, no matter how useful to the group they are.


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## FriskyFL (Sep 27, 2013)

I'd like to see some photos of the alleged lizards in (in) action...no pictures, no proof.


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

You GO, Frisky   

Pictures or it didn't happen?

Okay... later when I have time I will tell you guys a couple of the stories this conductor told me. Some were said, most are hysterical, almost all have to do with immoral stuff.

But sorry, no pictures..... so maybe it happened, maybe it didn't


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## PerRock (Sep 27, 2013)

Probably in that conductor's mind I'd be classified as a "foamer" as I usually wear my Amtrak shirt when I travel (it's a really nice polo that admittedly looks pretty official); and while I don't go out of my way to impersonate an official, I have had other customers come up to me and ask me official questions. If asked and I know the answer I usually tell them that I don't work for Amtrak but I do know the answer. If I don't know (which is usually pretty rare) I point them in the direction of the conductor of SA.

In the few times I am asked for directions to the SSL I tend to use the term "Lounge Car" as it covers the base that most people know what that is & it's in the name of the actual car. From my foggy memory I recall OBS calling it a 'Lounge Car' over the PA system as well.

peter


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

PerRock said:


> Probably in that conductor's mind I'd be classified as a "foamer" as I usually wear my Amtrak shirt when I travel (it's a really nice polo that admittedly looks pretty official); and while I don't go out of my way to impersonate an official, I have had other customers come up to me and ask me official questions. If asked and I know the answer I usually tell them that I don't work for Amtrak but I do know the
> 
> In the few times I am asked for directions to the SSL I tend to use the term "Lounge Car" as it covers the base that most people know what that is & it's in the name of the actual car. From my foggy memory I recall OBS calling it a 'Lounge Car' over the PA system as well.
> 
> peter


  

I always call the downstairs one the lounge car. The cafe car, I guess , is the proper name.


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

I call it the "lounge car" too. It's shorter and sums it up perfectly.

What's strange is that I notice I say "cafe car" if I'm talking about the cafe and "lounge car" if I'm referring to the lounge itself. They're the same car on the SWC, so I have NO idea why I do this. ^_^


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

LOL Sarah 

And SPEAKING of the Cafe Car, this chick that worked the Cafe Car on the Coast Starlight was the biggest N a z i in the world. Usually the people who work the Cafe Car are awesome, in my experience.

Here I was trying to show my sister how awesome the Coast Starlight is, and this chick announced not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES during our eight hour trip on the Coast Starlight, that nobody was allowed to hang out in the Cafe Car. That people had to eat their food within fifteen minutes, and then leave the Cafe Car. No card playing. No musicians. No nothing.

So..... being the little beeyatch that I can sometimes be, I ordered something, tipped the chick, then said with really innocent eyes, "So I was just curious, does it say in your Amtrak rule book that people can't hang out in the Cafe Car?" "She said, oh no, it isn't a rule, it's just something I do." I said, oh, I am really glad you told me, I am sure when I write to Amtrak about it telling them your rule, they will be very interested to hear about it.

What I didn't say but what I was thinking was....... "Are you aware that the Cafe Car is usually where musicians go to play, or people who want a quiet game of cards, or just someplace different to go?"


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## MrFSS (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> So..... being the little beeyatch that I can sometimes be, I ordered something, tipped the chick, then said with really innocent eyes, "So I was just curious, does it say in your Amtrak rule book that people can't hang out in the Cafe Car?" "She said, oh no, it isn't a rule, it's just something I do." I said, oh, I am really glad you told me, I am sure when I write to Amtrak about it telling them your rule, they will be very interested to hear about it.


What was her response to your comment about writing to Amtrak?


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## pennyk (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> And SPEAKING of the Cafe Car, this *chick* that worked the Cafe Car on the Coast Starlight was the biggest N a z i in the world. Usually the people who work the Cafe Car are awesome, in my experience.


I am curious, what is the difference between a "chick" and a woman. I find the word "chick" when used by men as condescending and derogatory. I do not know what to think when a woman refers to another woman as a "chick." Maybe I need to lighten up and take my "women's lib" hat off. :lol:


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

No, fair's fair. We rightly chastised another (male) poster recently for that kind of language. Chicks and beeyatches should be held to the same standard.


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## June the Coach Rider (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> It truly IS an adventure! I think that's why I am an Amtrak addict  It's always a magical experience for me. I had a sleeper, the one with the shower, one way on my last trip. Truthfully? I like Coach better. I know, I'm a weirdo.


Not a weirdo at all, I would not travel any other way than coach. If I wanted to be isolated in a tiny box I would, but I love the characters you meet in coach. Plus I never have trouble sleeping so it is fine with me. I usually bring my own food or eat at the café, I do get a burger from the diner when I am on a superliner, delivered to my lower level seat.


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## June the Coach Rider (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> Thanks you guys
> 
> I appreciate how knowledgeable a lot of you are. I can see how this would annoy some of you you because you know the proper names, procedures, rules, etc, and I don't. The thing is, and I apologize in advance, but I really don't care what the right terms are.
> 
> ...


That is what should be done on here, but even when mistakes are made and corrected, those that do the attacking continue to single out those they want to be nasty to and make that person feel stupid because they don't know all the PERFECTLY CORRECT names for things. I love Amtrak to ride the train, not to worry about what the car is called.


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

June the Coach Rider said:


> That is what should be done on here, but even when mistakes are made and corrected, those that do the attacking continue to single out those they want to be nasty to and make that person feel stupid because they don't know all the PERFECTLY CORRECT names for things.


[citation needed]


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## June the Coach Rider (Sep 27, 2013)

Ryan said:


> June the Coach Rider said:
> 
> 
> > That is what should be done on here, but even when mistakes are made and corrected, those that do the attacking continue to single out those they want to be nasty to and make that person feel stupid because they don't know all the PERFECTLY CORRECT names for things.
> ...


??? what does citation needed mean?


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## chakk (Sep 27, 2013)

As for the comment about people standing around Amtrak stations providing advice to passengers, be aware that Amtrak does solicit such volunteers to work at many of the stations in California. I see them in action regularly at Emeryville, Martinez, Davis, and Sacramento.


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

chakk said:


> As for the comment about people standing around Amtrak stations providing advice to passengers, be aware that Amtrak does solicit such volunteers to work at many of the stations in California. I see them in action regularly at Emeryville, Martinez, Davis, and Sacramento.


That's cool. I wonder if Chicago has something like that. I think that would be fun. I usually end up helping people anyway (when they ask - I'm not a crazy person with a fake name tag).


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 27, 2013)

SarahZ said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > As for the comment about people standing around Amtrak stations providing advice to passengers, be aware that Amtrak does solicit such volunteers to work at many of the stations in California. I see them in action regularly at Emeryville, Martinez, Davis, and Sacramento.
> ...


Our official CUS guide for the gathering.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

Having done considerable research into train crew stories, I can tell you that many of them rate high on the Pinocchio scale. It doesn't matter, really. How a conductor or sleeper attendant spins a yarn is the important thing, not the factual content of the tale.


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## SarahZ (Sep 27, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > chakk said:
> ...


I'll defer to the actual Chicago residents, but I'm still happy to help out with CUS and the L if anyone has questions. I'm in the city often enough to know it really well, but I don't live there (yet).


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

June the Coach Rider said:


> ??? what does citation needed mean?


 [citation needed]



SarahZ said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > As for the comment about people standing around Amtrak stations providing advice to passengers, be aware that Amtrak does solicit such volunteers to work at many of the stations in California. I see them in action regularly at Emeryville, Martinez, Davis, and Sacramento.
> ...


Only because you don't have a name tag.


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## Ispolkom (Sep 27, 2013)

Guest said:


> Having done considerable research into train crew stories, I can tell you that many of them rate high on the Pinocchio scale. It doesn't matter, really. How a conductor or sleeper attendant spins a yarn is the important thing, not the factual content of the tale.


Good Lord, isn't that true of all stories?

Or maybe it's just my family. My aunt tells of how as a newly-wed (back, oh, sixty years ago, she heard my uncle, her husband, telling a story about an incident that she was present at. She suggested that his narrative did not entirely conform to the actual events, and was surprised at how little traction that line of argument got. My relatives were much more interested in the narrative flow and structure of the story than its truth content.

In any case, I'm always surprised to read stories here that, in my mind at least, do not reflect well on the storyteller. Do people really ascribe such value to accuracy that they tell stories that display themselves in a negative light? It is a puzzlement.


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## junebug (Sep 27, 2013)

1. The Pinocchio Scale: That cracked me up  I have to remember that. There's a lot to be said for spinning a good yarn.

1. Chick: Sorry, the word probably was inappropriate. I never stopped using the words I learned in the late 60's. We all called each other chicks. Back when "my old man" didn't mean my father. Back when "my old man" was my boyfriend. I guess I need to keep up with current slang. However, I was floored recently, when a young retail clerk said "right on" to me. Will "far out" and "groovy" be next?

3. The Amtrak conductor said they chase the guys dressed like Amtrak employees out of the station. I didn't know that there are volunteers in the stations. The only volunteers I have seen are the historians that give the interesting talks on the trains.

4. Sarah, I bet they wouldn't chase you out, but even if you WERE crazy, that would always be fun on the train 

5. On my last Amtrak trip a couple of weeks ago, some of the girls (they were 18ish, girls? women?) on the train got very drunk and were told that if they didn't stop making so much noise, since it was one in the morning, they would be met by police at the next stop, and they would very ungraciously be escorted off the train.


6. One of the trains I was on had a load of hippies that were coming home from a week at "Burning Man". They were quite colorful characters. The Amish people didn't know what to make of the hippies. The Amish people sang their hymns even louder. Which I enjoyed, it was very pretty. What I learned about Burning Man is that it is outside in the desert. There are lots of creative people there. They burn a big figure of a man at the end of the week out in the desert. They can run out of water if they don't bring enough. There are no showers. Plus, I would imagine, there are bugs.

Peace and love,

Junebug


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## Meat Puppet (Sep 27, 2013)

FriskyFL said:


> I'd like to see some photos of the alleged lizards in (in) action...no pictures, no proof.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8998557692/


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 27, 2013)

junebug said:


> 6. One of the trains I was on had a load of hippies that were coming home from a week at "Burning Man". They were quite colorful characters. The Amish people didn't know what to make of the hippies. The Amish people sang their hymns even louder. Which I enjoyed, it was very pretty. What I learned about Burning Man is that it is outside in the desert. There are lots of creative people there. They burn a big figure of a man at the end of the week out in the desert. They can run out of water if they don't bring enough. There are no showers. Plus, I would imagine, there are bugs.


And narcotics. I understand authorities just love to inspect the _*California Zephyr*_ and her passengers during the time around Burning Man as they can pick up quite a few "clients" for the Crosshatch Hilton.


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## the_traveler (Sep 27, 2013)

Meat Puppet said:


> FriskyFL said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to see some photos of the alleged lizards in (in) action...no pictures, no proof.
> ...


*** LIKE-Y ***


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## oregon pioneer (Sep 27, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> > FriskyFL said:
> ...


Ha, ha, ha! I've seen this, too! On one trip that Hubby and I were on (and we were in coach, AND we slept in our pair of seats), there was a young woman who spent the entire EB trip in the SSL, camped out on a pair of seats. She had a pillow and a blanket and a stuffed bear, and she was sound asleep with the blanket over her head every single time the conductor came by. None of the conductors woke her up that we saw, and we surmised that she might even be a "stowaway" with no ticket. Does that ever happen?

I am not shy about asking someone to sit up if they are occupying more than one seat, and I want to sit down. Not disabled by it, but I have plantar fasciitis which causes me foot pain if I have to stand in one place too long. FYI, I looked up plantar fasciitis online when it first developed about 15 years ago, and the best advice I saw was "buy Birkenstocks." I did, and other comfortable shoes, and I have controlled it that way ever since. I can pretty much do anything I want (except stand quietly in one place, ha, ha!). I know people that won't spend money on shoes, but that's not me, I only have one pair of feet, so what are they worth?


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## amamba (Sep 27, 2013)

Ryan said:


> No, fair's fair. We rightly chastised another (male) poster recently for that kind of language. Chicks and beeyatches should be held to the same standard.


Eh, I was one of the chastisers, and "chick" is equivalent to "guy" for me, which is not necessarily as offensive as "girl".


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## Ryan (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm a firm believer in the "if you wouldn't call your mother by that name, you shouldn't use it to refer to any other woman" rule.

I haven't tried it, but I think that referring to my mother as a chick would probably get me slapped.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 27, 2013)

I've always heard it said about Stories "Why let Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story?" ^_^

Most Good Story Tellers Embelish their Stories, it makes them more Interesting! Like the Ads for Movies say: "Based on a True Story!" :giggle:


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## tonys96 (Sep 27, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> I've always heard it said about Stories "Why let Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story?" ^_^
> 
> Most Good Story Tellers Embelish their Stories, it makes them more Interesting! Like the Ads for Movies say: "Based on a True Story!" :giggle:


One of the greatest lines in a locally produced play is "Who needs facts when we have conjecture?"


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## GG-1 (Sep 28, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > I've always heard it said about Stories "Why let Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story?" ^_^
> ...


Aloha

What show name? Vaguely familiar.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 28, 2013)

Meat Puppet said:


> FriskyFL said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to see some photos of the alleged lizards in (in) action...no pictures, no proof.
> ...


And why do people insist on putting their shoes on the seats? But I guess that goes with the territory...


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## gmushial (Sep 28, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> > FriskyFL said:
> ...


You can guess they exhibit a similar lack of manners at home, sadly. ;-(


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