# Card Security



## Michigan Mom (Mar 3, 2013)

Have not used this subforum much and may not remember to check for updates, but did want to alert others to the Chase MC security apparatus. i had decided to take my AGR Chase card plus one other back up, on our VC to WAS as I do not ever take everything on VC. Good thing I had the backup because when I tried to use the AGR card in WAS it was declined. The hell? I pay my statements in full?? Several times. So I called the number on the back of my card, using a cell phone and when a human being finally came on the line, advised that because I had never been to WAS, the charges were suspect. I pointed out that i used this same card to book the train travel to and from this location for these dates. The only response (3 times) to any question was, "So are you in Washington DC right now?" How stupid is this and why should I have to tell them that? i get that company security depts look for charges that are made in states other than where the cardholder resides. But the programs should be a bit more intelligent than that. If I book travel to Ohio then charge something in Ohio, that's not reason to shut off someone's card. Am I missing something here, entirely possible, but do we have to advise our credit card issuers when and where we are travelling? Does not seem right somehow.


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## CHamilton (Mar 3, 2013)

Michigan Mom said:


> do we have to advise our credit card issuers when and where we are travelling?


Some card issues recommend that you do. My credit union recommends that we notify them before using their Visa card while traveling. Amex, on the other hand, does not. The last time I called them, they said, thanks very much, but it isn't necessary.


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## KrazyKoala (Mar 4, 2013)

I've only had to inform them for international travel.

It is kinda stupid if it's a travel card. I've never had this problem with my Delta Amex though.


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## Acela150 (Mar 4, 2013)

I always try to advise my Credit Card Companies when I'm out of town. I was in Chicago earlier in the month and I went to make a purchase at a Target and it was declined. I called Chase and they made a note so that I could use my card. It was a large purchase and they stated certain transactions get declined as a Identity Protection feature.


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## Aaron (Mar 4, 2013)

I recently travelled to Illinois from Arizona. I was picking up a few things at a Wal-Mart, and had my Chase Amtrak card declined. That was weird, since I had just used it to rent a car at ORD and eat at a restaurant near the airport. I guess this third stop made it into a spree. No problem; I pull out a second, lesser-used card and try that. Declined also. Okay... Try emergency backup card #3. That one finally works.

As my receipt is printing out, my phone starts ringing with a call from bank #2 to let me know they've detected "suspicious activity" on that card. As I'm on the phone with them, I get a text from Chase asking me to text them back if that was really my charge they declined (i.e., text "1" if yes, "2" if no). And, as soon as I'm done replying to the text, I get a notification of an email from bank #3 (who had approved the transaction) asking me to call them to verify some possible fraudulent activity on that card.

I go to Mexico several times a year with no notification to the banks, and have never had any problems. But, I haven't been to Illinois in about 5 years. It's all about patterns to the banks and the software they're using to monitor these things, so the fact that I was suddenly in Illinois was enough out of the norm for them to flag.


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## Ryan (Mar 4, 2013)

I think that all Chase sees is "Amtrak charge for $253.89", not "Tickets from WAS-CHI", so they have no idea where you're travelling to.

I've never had a problem using the card on travel, but I have had them stop fraudulent activity when the account was used somewhere other than my city, so I'm pretty happy with how Chase handles it.


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## benjibear (Mar 4, 2013)

I am sure Chase does not monitor where you are buying tickets to/from. I am sure they only know the transaction details, not what you bought.

There is so much credit card fraud that the credit card companies are being more sensitive. They have a method to determine suspected fraud. I was told that a lot of times if the card was stolen, somebody will try to buy gas or a small online purchase (often donations to charity) and then go try to buy a large item (such as a TV or a computer).


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## leemell (Mar 4, 2013)

Michigan Mom said:


> Am I missing something here, entirely possible, but do we have to advise our credit card issuers when and where we are travelling? Does not seem right somehow.


We have notified our credit card companies when we travel or make big purchases in advance for several decades. Result, we have never been declined.


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## amamba (Mar 4, 2013)

Meh



leemell said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > Am I missing something here, entirely possible, but do we have to advise our credit card issuers when and where we are travelling? Does not seem right somehow.
> ...


Me too. I always advise mine when I travel now.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 4, 2013)

Good to know that the Banks are actually doing something Positive for their Customers rather than just adding "Fees" and Charges for Everything!! I have three Cards, 2 from Chase and 1 from Cap One, but only use the AGR MC from Chase for Obvious reasons, AGR Points!  I just returned from Canada and had no problems, the only time CHASE has notifed me of a Fraudulent Charge was when someone attempted to use my # in Brazil where I've never been!


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 4, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Good to know that the Banks are actually doing something Positive for their Customers rather than just adding "Fees" and Charges for Everything!! I have three Cards, 2 from Chase and 1 from Cap One, but only use the AGR MC from Chase for Obvious reasons, AGR Points!  I just returned from Canada and had no problems, the only time CHASE has notifed me of a Fraudulent Charge was when someone attempted to use my # in *Brazil where I've never been! *


Only because no train goes to Brazil from TX. :giggle:


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## SarahZ (Mar 4, 2013)

Having worked in credit card customer service, I can add a bit to the points made above.

Even if the system recognized your trip was going to WAS (which it wouldn't, since all it shows is a transaction from "Amtrak", and the system wouldn't know where "WAS" is, nor your dates of travel), the system couldn't automatically update your travel location and dates. This has to be done manually.

When a cardholder called us to report a trip, we had to go into their permission settings and add the additional location(s). Then we had to input the dates they would be there so the card knew when it was okay to process authorizations and when to stop processing authorizations. This way, if someone lost their card while on vacation, nobody could use it after that date. If the customer decided to go a day early or stay longer, they had to let us know so we could change the dates.

Alternately, we did have some customers who traveled to various countries frequently (ex: Michigan residents going to Canada), so we would set it as a permanent permission on their account if/when asked. If you travel to a certain area quite often, I'd recommend asking if it can be set permanently so you don't have to call every time.


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks Sorcha, at least that part makes sense. I'm not about to call total strangers and let them know when and for how long I plan to be out of town, although apparently many others have no problem sharing that information. Fortunately I have another CC with a very good security program YET common sense so the business will just shift to that card instead of AGR in the future.


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## PPorro (Mar 4, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Good to know that the Banks are actually doing something Positive for their Customers rather than just adding "Fees" and Charges for Everything!! I have three Cards, 2 from Chase and 1 from Cap One, but only use the AGR MC from Chase for Obvious reasons, AGR Points!  I just returned from Canada and had no problems, the only time CHASE has notifed me of a Fraudulent Charge was when someone attempted to use my # in Brazil where I've never been!


I agree.

I'd much rather have them check than have some clown running up charges on my card. I know the people who complain about checking would be twice as loud if it was some card company that allowed a charge from someplace they never went? No win?

My only fraud was a card that I never got, never activated and someone bought beer and cigarettes, filled the tanks on a few cars and shopped for snacks. In Texas! So how bright is that? A new never validated card from Wisconsin, suddenly charges hundreds in Texas. Didn't cost me anything, that's the flip side. I'd rather have a small inconvenience and stop the fraud.

No one suggested that going to IL might be a trigger, I mean fraud and crooked politicians run rampant. :blink:


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 4, 2013)

Well maybe when you arrive exhausted at your destination and attempt to check in at your hotel you may not think it so wonderful when the clerk advises you your card is declined and you have had an A+ credit rating for years. :help:

Not one person here gets the point. The banks are not doing anything for the customer, the customer is already protected by the Federal 50$ limit on liability, THAT has been in place for decades AND which most banks waive anyway to get your business.

The banks are trying to protect their own bottom line, great but please do it intelligently. Discover is the leader here. I've popped up in Chicago, Las Vegas, Dallas, San Diego, Miami and not ever had a charge declined. The very first time that a true fraudulent transaction happened, at a Wal Mart supercenter in Nashville, will never know how they got my credit into, Discover was ON IT and called me, cancelled the card, and issued a new card in a heartbeat. So I will continue to use the AGR for certain recurring transactions that they can't screw up, and rely on Citi and Discover while traveling.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 5, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Good to know that the Banks are actually doing something Positive for their Customers rather than just adding "Fees" and Charges for Everything!! I have three Cards, 2 from Chase and 1 from Cap One, but only use the AGR MC from Chase for Obvious reasons, AGR Points!  I just returned from Canada and had no problems, the only time CHASE has notifed me of a Fraudulent Charge was when someone attempted to use my # in Brazil where I've never been!


I've been the victim of credit card fraud multiple times. Probably because anyone with an American credit card is virtually indistinguishable from the rightful owner. Even here in 2013 the petty criminal on the street doesn't need anything but the card numbers and the plain text "security" code at millions of indifferent retailers. No unwritten PIN, no secret password, no computer chip, nothing at all. Think about that for a moment. So much has changed in the field of computer security over the last few decades, yet one of the most high profile targets we are likely to ever possess is barely any more secure in today than it was in the 1980's. Doesn't that seem a little odd?



PPorro said:


> A new never validated card from Wisconsin, suddenly charges hundreds in Texas. Didn't cost me anything, that's the flip side. I'd rather have a small inconvenience and stop the fraud. No one suggested that going to IL might be a trigger, I mean fraud and crooked politicians run rampant. :blink:


How exactly was the fraud stopped if the thief was able to rack up hundreds of dollars in free money? If you think the fraud doesn't cost you anything just wait until you carry a balance or make a late payment. After that you'll be paying plenty for our broken credit card security apparatus. Ah, the joys of dancing atop a massive financial meat grinder while waxing poetic about the ability to avoid catastrophe through good fortune.



Michigan Mom said:


> Not one person here gets the point. The banks are not doing anything for the customer, the customer is already protected by the Federal 50$ limit on liability, THAT has been in place for decades AND which most banks waive anyway to get your business.


The customer isn't protected from anything. They pay for easy fraud with high interest rates and penalties. Millions of Americans are convinced they will never fall afoul of the credit card trap. Millions of others have learned that even the best laid plans don't always work out as intended, often after it's too late to do them any good.


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## AKA (Mar 5, 2013)

I had a $ 20.00 charge declined in N C about a year ago. Reason, never chaeged anything in N C before. One call fixed it. Advised to call when I was traveling out of my pattern.

Got a call one morning asking if I was on line buying An item . I said no, they said cut up your card we are senting you a new card. Chase is doing just fine by me.


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2013)

I never call before I travel, and haven't had an issue.

If my card gets declined, I'll call Chase and tell them where I am and they'll authorize it.

Not sure why it's so complicated or such a big deal.


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## SarahZ (Mar 5, 2013)

I'd rather make a quick phone call to authorize charges than deal with the hassle of clearing up a stolen card with fraudulent charges. The former is much easier and takes about five minutes. The latter involves multiple phone calls, forms, and attempts to get your credit report cleared up. No thanks.

Also, I'm not worried about a CSR in another state heading all the way to my state just to break into my apartment. That's fairly far-fetched.


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 5, 2013)

I am not worried about the limited circumstance you described, that would obviously be far fetched, and it's not what I meant. Not willing to debate it either except to say that I too am not worried about a phone rep in India breaking into my home.

The intent here was not to get into an involved discussion about the credit card system or any of that. I simply wanted to alert others to something about AGR I found less than desirable. I get the feeling that my opinion was somehow viewed as blasphemous. So much for free speech. I like my AGR well enough but do find that Discover is administered better. AGR has provided us with train travel and that is great. Other cards have other benefits. Last I checked it was permissible to suggest an opinion. I truly don't care what cards other people carry, I own no stock in any bank, and whoever wants to call their bank and advise them of their every move, more power to you. I'll just keep my public service announcements to myself henceforth.


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## pennyk (Mar 5, 2013)

I generally phone Chase (I have 2 Chase cards) before I travel - especially when I went to Canada. Prior to one of my trips, I spent about 15 minutes on the phone with the Chase agent because she wanted to hear more about my upcoming train trip.


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2013)

Michigan Mom said:


> I get the feeling that my opinion was somehow viewed as blasphemous. So much for free speech.
> Last I checked it was permissible to suggest an opinion.
> 
> I'll just keep my public service announcements to myself henceforth.


Overreact much?

Or does "free speech" only apply to the people that agree with you?


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## SarahZ (Mar 5, 2013)

Please don't be so melodramatic. When you share an opinion with others, you risk having them post the opposite opinion. Like you, we also have free speech.

I'm sorry some of us didn't agree with you, but don't take it so personally. Even if I don't necessarily agree with someone's opinion, I still respect it. I was simply offering my own contribution(s) to the discussion and don't feel I was being insulting or rude.


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2013)

See, I can tell you're a CSR, you're far more polite than I am. 

(I'm pretty sure that Chase's CSRs aren't in India either)


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## trainman74 (Mar 5, 2013)

Ryan said:


> (I'm pretty sure that Chase's CSRs aren't in India either)


The Chase CSRs I've spoken to have been in Missouri.


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 5, 2013)

I take back everything I said, everything about AGR is wonderful, perfect and happy. AGR has no flaws. in fact, none of you have any flaws. You are all perfect and I can only aspire to achieve your level of being. Please accept my humble gratitude for your deep wisdom and thoughtful comments. I promise from here on in to only speak of my AGR card in hushed, reverent tones.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 5, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> I'd rather make a quick phone call to authorize charges than deal with the hassle of clearing up a stolen card with fraudulent charges. The former is much easier and takes about five minutes.


I do business with five different card companies and I've visited roughly 150 locations outside of my hometown during my various travels.

5 minutes x 5 institutions x 150 locations = around 3,750 minutes. That's not very practical in my view.


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## SarahZ (Mar 5, 2013)

Michigan Mom said:


> I take back everything I said, everything about AGR is wonderful, perfect and happy. AGR has no flaws. in fact, none of you have any flaws. You are all perfect and I can only aspire to achieve your level of being. Please accept my humble gratitude for your deep wisdom and thoughtful comments. I promise from here on in to only speak of my AGR card in hushed, reverent tones.


Oh, for crying out loud. Either grow a backbone or take your ball and go home. You're acting like a child because two or three people disagreed with you, and now you've gone even further and decided to drag your drama into the Introductions thread, where it most certainly doesn't belong. You're only making yourself look bad, nobody else. Nobody was mean to you. Disagreeing with your opinion is not the same as telling you you can't have an opinion.

Devil's Advocate disagreed with me in the response above this one, and it didn't ruffle me one bit. He thinks calling is a pain and presented his reasons, which I understand. It's as simple as that, and it won't keep me from posting or get me upset. I don't think he dislikes me. I don't take it as an affront on my character. He didn't insult me or tell me what I said was stupid. We're just two different people with two different ways of thinking. No harm done. That's how the world works. People disagree. It happens. You aren't going to have much fun on the internet (or in life) if you get upset every time someone disagrees with you.


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 5, 2013)

Sorcha, please take your own advice. If you don't like my postings you are free to ignore them. I can put whatever I like into my introduction, drama queen or not. And I find your lecture absolutely laughable. But thanks for your concern about my children. They are doing great.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 5, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > I take back everything I said, everything about AGR is wonderful, perfect and happy. AGR has no flaws. in fact, none of you have any flaws. You are all perfect and I can only aspire to achieve your level of being. Please accept my humble gratitude for your deep wisdom and thoughtful comments. I promise from here on in to only speak of my AGR card in hushed, reverent tones.
> ...


** LIKE **


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2013)

***LOVE***


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## Michigan Mom (Mar 5, 2013)

Just figured out the blocking mechanism. For the last time on this topic, if someone doesn't like what I have to say, go ahead and ignore me. I will be happy to do the same Don't lecture or preach to me as Sorcha did, or if you do, just know that will result in your being ignored.


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## leemell (Mar 5, 2013)

Michigan Mom said:


> Just figured out the blocking mechanism. For the last time on this topic, if someone doesn't like what I have to say, go ahead and ignore me. I will be happy to do the same Don't lecture or preach to me as Sorcha did, or if you do, just know that will result in your being ignored.


Wow, a little sensitive aren't we? I thought she was pretty close to the mark. I have about 25 years on the internet and this was quite nice, you ought to see real lecturing. :blink:


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## TimePeace (Mar 5, 2013)

Michigan Mom: I too use ignore... but not to "get back" at the person, as in : "Don't lecture or preach to me as Sorcha did, or if you do, just know that will result in your being ignored. "

It's more like, to keep myself from the feelings I get when I am annoyed - sometimes at a poster, and sometimes at myself.

Another thing that makes me consider ingoring someone is when they complain bitterly about the system not working for them, even though there are many factors, and that same system seems to work just fine to me and to others.

When I go to my bank and they ask me for an ID, sometimes I feel a surge of annoyance - jeez how many times do I come in here? Don't they recognize me? But then I take a deep breath and say, "Yes here's my ID... and I appreciate you looking out for ME and the security of MY account."

Just sayin.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 5, 2013)

I'm do scared!

<guess I'll be ignored now>


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## AlanB (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, I think we're done with this topic.


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