# Hawaii HART Boondoggle



## GBNorman (Mar 23, 2019)

It appears The Journal enjoys "Editorializing" on the front page (much as Rush and Sean say of The Times) about the boondoggle HART has apparently become.

Fair Use:



> HONOLULU—The train through paradise should have been complete by now.
> 
> The dream was an elevated rail system to bypass what has been some of the country’s worst traffic, whisking commuters from the farmland and swelling suburbs of West Oahu into the heart of Honolulu. The 20-mile route parallels one of the world’s most glorious tropical shorelines.
> 
> More than a decade after inception, having spanned the tenures of three mayors and three governors and outlived its most powerful benefactor in Congress, the project is only half built. Hopes it might transform the crowded island city anytime soon are fading.


Although I claim to have set foot in all fifty States, my "claim" to done so in Hawaii is very tenuous. It consists of having done a refueling stop at PHNL from 2 to 4AM during '68 enroute home from VVTS. Therefore I rely on others to report more on this project


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## neroden (Mar 23, 2019)

HART is badly needed. It should have happened a long time ago.

It had some project management problems -- largely due to lack of any institutional knowledge in Hawaii about heavy construction -- which allowed for poor tracking of expenses, bad contract design, and contractor abuses, which caused cost overruns. This combined with the fact that everything costs more in Hawaii, and HART was delayed by frivolous lawsuits until the price of importing construction materials shot up, which caused another set of cost overruns.

Of course the notoriously anti-rail WSJ attacked it again. The WSJ, since Rupert Murdoch took it over, is now known for having its dishonest editorial page writers (who have been caught lying about government statistics and falsifying quotes) promoted to the front page.

I do not read anything by the WSJ, whose editors belong in federal prison for life.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 23, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> It appears The Journal enjoys "Editorializing" on the front page (much as Rush and Sean say of The Times) about the boondoggle...



It appears you have some sort of agenda that drives you to keep posting this sort of thing, but instead of accepting and admitting your bias you keep implying that your own views are in some way distinct from the partisan and prejudiced articles you keep posting here. Have you ever posted even one single article that advocates for additional funding to provide more/better passenger rail? What is your motivation and what do you hope to achieve from repeatedly posting anti-rail diatribes on a pro-rail forum?


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## jis (Mar 24, 2019)

That’s why he has earned a coveted space on my “Ignore” list [emoji6]


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## GBNorman (Mar 24, 2019)

Wow, talk about "executing the messenger".

It's one thing that I am more "pro railroad industry" than I am "pro-Amtrak", but to simply post material lawfully taken (WSJ permits subscribers to share) in the interest of expanding the knowledge of the Forum, and be "executed" for doing so, escapes my reasoning.


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## Ryan (Mar 24, 2019)

I'm not sure you can "feign" confusion when you identify the "why" in literally the first words of your post.



GBNorman said:


> It appears The Journal enjoys "Editorializing" on the front page



The claim that you're "simply" presenting "the news" to expand our "knowledge" falls flat in "your own words".


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## Anderson (Mar 24, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> Wow, talk about "executing the messenger".
> 
> It's one thing that I am more "pro railroad industry" than I am "pro-Amtrak", but to simply post material lawfully taken (WSJ permits subscribers to share) in the interest of expanding the knowledge of the Forum, and be "executed" for doing so, escapes my reasoning.



You might want to tone down the histrionics. One user saying that they've put a setting to "ignore" on you because they don't enjoy reading your content is hardly being "executed". Frankly, seeing this reaction has me wondering where my "ignore" switch is.


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## GBNorman (Mar 24, 2019)

Then BE MY GUEST, Anderson and all the others, who would like to have me removed from this site to petition the Staff to have it done.

I simply found a comprehensive report in The Wall Street Journal and shared such, because I can as a $450 a year print subscriber, with the Forum that I would have hoped would engender discussion to make this apparent "boondoggle" into a meaningful transportation resource. But instead, except for Mr. Roden's first response, became an avenue to attack a Member, and Financial contributor to, to this site.

I do not think it speaks well of those who have chosen to attack, as distinct from disagree, with this Member.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 24, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> Then BE MY GUEST, Anderson and all the others, who would like to have me removed from this site to petition the Staff to have it done.
> 
> I simply found a comprehensive report in The Wall Street Journal and shared such, *because I can as a $450 a year print subscriber,* with the Forum that I would have hoped would engender discussion to make this apparent "boondoggle" into a meaningful transportation resource. But instead, except for Mr. Roden's first response, became an avenue to attack a Member, *and Financial contributor* to, to this site.
> 
> I do not think it speaks well of those who have chosen to attack, as distinct from disagree, with this Member.


What does the bolded have to do with anything? Does showing off your ability to spend big bucks make your contributions to the forum something to endear?


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## Ryan (Mar 24, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> What does the bolded have to do with anything? Does showing off your ability to spend big bucks make your contributions to the forum something to endear?



No. 

Gil, if you have any actual news to report, or actual ideas on the topic of rail transit in Hawai’i, we’re “all ears”. 

The rest of the blabber can go in the bin with the opinion-based “reporting”.


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## Anderson (Mar 24, 2019)

GBNorman said:


> Then BE MY GUEST, Anderson and all the others, who would like to have me removed from this site to petition the Staff to have it done.
> 
> I simply found a comprehensive report in The Wall Street Journal and shared such, because I can as a $450 a year print subscriber, with the Forum that I would have hoped would engender discussion to make this apparent "boondoggle" into a meaningful transportation resource. But instead, except for Mr. Roden's first response, became an avenue to attack a Member, and Financial contributor to, to this site.
> 
> I do not think it speaks well of those who have chosen to attack, as distinct from disagree, with this Member.



Uh...nobody has advocated banning you (though I might advise checking your meds at this point). "Blocking" means "I put you on a list of users I don't get notifications from/about", not "You are heretofore barred from posting on the site". Nice job trying to play the martyr, though...


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## GBNorman (Mar 24, 2019)

Ryan, when I opened this topic, I believe I clearly stated that I have little knowledge of HART, and since at age 77 I do not expect to ever set foot on Hawaiian soil again, I still held that the material within The Journal's report would be of interest to the Forum.

Your "tone" from your earlier posting seems to have moderated, and I sincerely thank you for that.


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## sttom (Mar 29, 2019)

Its the WSJ, they like dancing on the grave, well death beds of public infrastructure projects. Its what you can expect from a good chunk of the editorial staff.


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## daybeers (Apr 3, 2019)

Woah, okay...so yes, the Wall Street Journal is a very biased newsource and its journalism should be taken with a bit more skepticism than usual when consuming media. However, I do think some of the responses above have gone too far, in particular, this statement:


Anderson said:


> Uh...nobody has advocated banning you (*though I might advise checking your meds at this point*).


 (emphasis mine). Such language is highly inappropriate and unacceptable, especially on a railroad discussion forum. There is _*never*_ any reason to attack or joke about one's mental state.

Norman, I think the point others are trying to make here is that the WSJ is not a very reliable news source, especially when it comes to transportation issues. I do have to say that it's not surprising you received a negative response to posting yet another article from them on a pro-transportation discussion forum.

Now, can we please get back on topic here? Can anyone give us any insight on where the project stands now? Predictions?


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## Maglev (Apr 3, 2019)

All I know is that last time I arrived in Honolulu, after two hours in the car we were still at the airport.


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## neroden (Apr 8, 2019)

The no-good Trump appointee at the FTA has been fighting with the project management, but it seems they will in the end go along with finishing the project. The new management seems to have gotten contracting problems under control and is auditing the rather sloppy accounting which was done before. 

The city council and state government have repeatedly voted to MAKE HART HAPPEN.

The usual deranged anti-rail lunatics are throwing everything they can at the wall to try to criticize the project.

Everything west of Pearl Harbor is pretty nearly ready to go (done this year). There's wrangling with the electric copmany between Pearl Harbor and Middle Street (past the airport) but it looks like this is going to be resolved and finished close to on schedule (which is 2021). There's also wrangling with UH aobut power line locations but it's expected to be resolved soon.

East of Middle Street is currently figuring out how/where to relocate utilities, while trying to line up the rest of the funding. Utility relocation in this section is supposed to be done by 2022 but they're still working on designs, hoping to finish very soon. Of course they're dealing with a few NIMBYs who they have to eminent-domain just to get construction access through the edge of their property.

For gory details:
http://hartdocs.honolulu.gov/docush...+#523&utm_campaign=eBlast522&utm_medium=email


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## ScouseAndy (Apr 22, 2019)

neroden said:


> WSJ, since Rupert Murdoch took it over, is now known for having its dishonest editorial page writers (who have been caught lying about government statistics and falsifying quotes) promoted to the front page.
> 
> I do not read anything by the WSJ, whose editors belong in federal prison for life.



Which is why many of the UK forums I subscribe to ban any mention let alone links to any of his publications and why one of his publications is not sold (or sold from under the counter) within my city. From phone hacking to out right lies Murdochs businesses have no scruples or morals


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## lordsigma (Jul 15, 2019)

daybeers said:


> However, I do think some of the responses above have gone too far, in particular, this statement:
> (emphasis mine). Such language is highly inappropriate and unacceptable, especially on a railroad discussion forum. There is _*never*_ any reason to attack or joke about one's mental state.


 I agree. I often times disagree with Mr. Norman. HOWEVER I do respect his point of view and experience in the railroad industry. I think this board and community are better for having members with a diverse set of viewpoints. Respectful, passionate discussion and debate is good, but personal attacks are not.


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## Shawn Ryu (Aug 7, 2019)

Maglev said:


> All I know is that last time I arrived in Honolulu, after two hours in the car we were still at the airport.


Will the train connect to airport when it opens?


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## saxman (Aug 7, 2019)

Shawn Ryu said:


> Will the train connect to airport when it opens?



Yes, it will connect to the airport.


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