# The New Canadian



## NS VIA Fan

VIA now provides a link on their web page to the “New Canadian” launching next summer.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian

And there’s photos and diagrams of the rebuilt all room sleepers and Park Cars.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian/classes-and-trains-cars


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## Bob Dylan

NS VIA Fan said:


> VIA now provides a link on their web page to the New Canadian launching next summer.
> 
> http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian
> 
> And theres photos and diagrams of the rebuilt all room sleepers and Park Cars.
> 
> http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian/classes-and-trains-cars


Sweet! :wub: Bet the enhanced sleeper class will come at a dear price! Besides the exclusive sleeping car, and the room service, doesnt seem to be whole lot of difference between this and the current sleeping car service???

Also a good reminder of how Amtrak could buy/lease some of the PV/heritage lounges/domes that are avaialble and maintain them just like VIA does!


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## Anderson

Are they nixing the open sections? If so, I'm going to need to do a "short hop" on one overnight for the experience.


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## NS VIA Fan

Anderson said:


> Are they nixing the open sections? If so, I'm going to need to do a "short hop" on one overnight for the experience.


Only in the new Deluxe Class cars......the Sleeper Touring Class cars retain the Open Sections but in refurbished cars too:

http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian/classes-and-trains-cars

(klick on Sleeper Touring Class)


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## Anderson

You know, I really hope these are a hit. They're probably going to be outside my price range for quite some time (and that's saying something), but I do hope they succeed.


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## Steve4031

I checked out pricing on Via's website, and pricing seems similar for the touring class sleeper. I am not sure what the cost for the deluxe class sleeper is. But both classes can access dome cars, so I would go touring class. Just sent my gf a link. I hope she is interested in the trip.

Thanks for the info.


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## Devil's Advocate

Steve4031 said:


> I checked out pricing on Via's website, and pricing seems similar for the touring class sleeper. I am not sure what the cost for the deluxe class sleeper is. But both classes can access dome cars, so I would go touring class. Just sent my gf a link. I hope she is interested in the trip.


I think something may have been lost in translation as the tickets for the new "Deluxe Sleeper" class won't go on sale until mid-October and will only be available for summer trips starting in 2012. Or at least that is my initial understanding. _Every_ class of service on the Canadian has access to at least one dome car, including economy coach service, although it's a lot more relaxed and the availability of seats and service is much better in the sleeper sections.

As for my personal take, I think the new Deluxe Sleepers don't look that attractive. To me the main appeal of the Canadian is the way it still looks and feels like you're riding a train from the 1950's. But now VIA has decided to "improve" the experience by cutting out as much of the rail travel aspect as possible. Now you can stay in a room that looks and feels more like a generic business hotel. And you can spend your time watching movies and TV shows in your hotel room. You can even remain sequestered in your room during meal times instead of having to visit the big scary dining car. This whole thing seems like a service designed for rich hermits. No thanks. I'd rather stick to the original layouts that provide so much more charm and amusement than any business hotel I've ever experienced. ^_^


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## Anderson

I'm opposed to the room service at lunch and I don't like the presence of the TVs, but other than that I don't mind the idea. Room service at breakfast I can "get" (and can't you get in-room meals on Amtrak upon request anyway?), and I can understand the desire for the nice beds), but the other stuff just seems pointless for a train like this. _That said_, I would support something like this going on the Lake Shore Limited or Capitol Limited, where I think there would be a truly salable market for it with proper timing.


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## Bob Dylan

Texas Sunset said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I checked out pricing on Via's website, and pricing seems similar for the touring class sleeper. I am not sure what the cost for the deluxe class sleeper is. But both classes can access dome cars, so I would go touring class. Just sent my gf a link. I hope she is interested in the trip.
> 
> 
> 
> I think something may have been lost in translation as the tickets for the new "Deluxe Sleeper" class won't go on sale until mid-October and will only be available for summer trips starting in 2012. Or at least that is my initial understanding. _Every_ class of service on the Canadian has access to at least one dome car, including economy coach service, although it's a lot more relaxed and the availability of seats and service is much better in the sleeper sections.
> 
> As for my personal take, I think the new Deluxe Sleepers don't look that attractive. To me the main appeal of the Canadian is the way it still looks and feels like you're riding a train from the 1950's. But now VIA has decided to "improve" the experience by cutting out as much of the rail travel aspect as possible. Now you can stay in a room that looks and feels more like a generic business hotel. And you can spend your time watching movies and TV shows in your hotel room. You can even remain sequestered in your room during meal times instead of having to visit the big scary dining car. This whole thing seems like a service designed for rich hermits. No thanks. I'd rather stick to the original layouts that provide so much more charm and amusement than any business hotel I've ever experienced. ^_^
Click to expand...

You nailed this one Chris! Ditto for me! :excl: :excl: :excl:


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> As for my personal take, I think the new Deluxe Sleepers don't look that attractive. To me the main appeal of the Canadian is the way it still looks and feels like you're riding a train from the 1950's......


Perhaps for you but VIA is running more that a nostalgic excursion for Railfans. There’s an upscale market of travellers out there VIA is hoping to attract and they want their amenities including flat screen TVs!


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## Steve4031

Thanks for the Info. I will let you know when I book.


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## NorthCoastHiawatha

As a Budd purist, i'm not amused.


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## Anderson

Ok, I'm now wondering a couple of things:

1) On the one-night trips in the east (NYP/WAS-Florida, NYP/WAS-Chicago, and NYP/WAS-Atlanta), would there be a market for this? I'm assuming that the rooms are reconfigured to get 8 to a car instead of 6 on a single-level train.

2) Assuming that there was a market for it, what would the pricing point have to be for it to make sense for Amtrak to shuffle a set of something like this into the consist on one of the Silvers, the LSL, etc.?

I ask this because the cracks about these basically being a "business hotel on wheels", so to speak, remind me of the pitches that were made regarding the old Pullman sleepers being, in essence, the same thing. So I'm left wondering if there isn't a very real market for this sort of thing in some areas. Another possibility would be the SWC (using Superliners), assuming that you could find some way to nudge the CHI times a bit closer to the edges of the working day, though I'll readily admit that such is limited by the loss of a day; CHI-DEN would be another such market, as might CHI-MSP.

So...bashing these as basically being rolling upscale business hotels is, if anything, a compliment as far as I'm concerned because of what I suspect needs to be made available to make rail travel desirable to certain market segments. If this works, Amtrak _definitely_ needs to take notice (and of course, if it is a messy flop, we got to see a failed experiment on VIA's dime).


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## jis

Anderson said:


> I ask this because the cracks about these basically being a "business hotel on wheels", so to speak, remind me of the pitches that were made regarding the old Pullman sleepers being, in essence, the same thing. So I'm left wondering if there isn't a very real market for this sort of thing in some areas. Another possibility would be the SWC (using Superliners), assuming that you could find some way to nudge the CHI times a bit closer to the edges of the working day, though I'll readily admit that such is limited by the loss of a day; CHI-DEN would be another such market, as might CHI-MSP.
> 
> So...bashing these as basically being rolling upscale business hotels is, if anything, a compliment as far as I'm concerned because of what I suspect needs to be made available to make rail travel desirable to certain market segments. If this works, Amtrak _definitely_ needs to take notice (and of course, if it is a messy flop, we got to see a failed experiment on VIA's dime).


I think it would be a mistake for Amtrak to go into VIA style upscale Sleeper service, unless they can do it as a separate subsidiary with clearly distinct accounting which can clearly show that the subsidiary in and of itself is profitable and able to plow back such profits to reduce overall subsidy. The problem is, as soon as you try doing this the political firestorm is going to cause more problems than good for Amtrak.


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## rrdude

"Purist", "Railfans", "Nostalgic".

HOGWASH!

VIA is doing the RIGHT THING. Why ***** about flat screens in the room? Some people, (many) would love to have that option either late at night, or when they become bored-to-tears at looking at the rolling plains of Alberta. (not me mind you)

There is ALWAYS a market for the super up-scale.

I LOVE eating in the dining car, and enjoy meeting new friends......blah, blah, blah. BUT SOME PEOPLE don't.

And there is always the "romance" factor of dining right in your room. I'll let your minds roll with that one.

I think ANYTHING that any rail carrier can do to DRAW ADD'L passengers is a bonus. Be it video games, open platform observations, casino, ANYthing, is a benefit.

Those of us who post on this board are an extreme MINORITY of the rail -traveling public. And our yearning for the nostalgic days of rail travel are just that, yearnings. "John Q. Traveling Public" couldn't care less is the car was built by Budd, PS, ACF, Kawasaki, Talgo..........

I for one am starting a separate savings account, called "Canadian"


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## jis

rrdude said:


> "Purist", "Railfans", "Nostalgic".
> 
> HOGWASH!
> 
> VIA is doing the RIGHT THING. Why ***** about flat screens in the room? Some people, (many) would love to have that option either late at night, or when they become bored-to-tears at looking at the rolling plains of Alberta. (not me mind you)


Also just imagine the possibilities with a flat screen, if they were to use one channel to feed from a front facing camera in the engine!!! The possibilities opened up are interesting.

Remember that Amtrak tried flat screens in Viewliners, but of course they were all stolen by folks in Sunnyside as the rumors go.



> There is ALWAYS a market for the super up-scale.
> 
> I LOVE eating in the dining car, and enjoy meeting new friends......blah, blah, blah. BUT SOME PEOPLE don't.
> 
> And there is always the "romance" factor of dining right in your room. I'll let your minds roll with that one.


+1. Since VIA does not face the political imperatives that Amtrak does and they are able to do this, it is great. When VIA added the Sightseer Coaches to the Canadian, even then the Budd troops went ballistic because the sleek Budd look of the train was destroyed by these intruders. But the passengers immensely enjoyed it.

From what I gather VIA carried out a detailed survey based analysis of what the real top of the line Sleeper customers are looking for, and this is the result of that. So unless someone has an alternate survey that states otherwise regarding the desires of those who are actually willing to part with real money, who's to complain?

But still remember, notwithstanding all this, each VIA LD trains also serves a transportation purpose. This became even clearer on our ride on the Ocean a few weeks back. There were very few on the train that could truly be termed as "Tourists" IMHO, and yet the train carried 7 Sleeping Cars and a full Diner and of course a bunch of Coaches + the Park Car bringing up the rear. If a Sleeper operation can be run at a substantial profit plowing back money to reduce general subsidy. What's wrong with it?


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## Devil's Advocate

rrdude said:


> "Purist", "Railfans", "Nostalgic".
> 
> HOGWASH!
> 
> VIA is doing the RIGHT THING. Why ***** about flat screens in the room? Some people, (many) would love to have that option either late at night, or when they become bored-to-tears at looking at the rolling plains of Alberta. (not me mind you)
> 
> There is ALWAYS a market for the super up-scale.
> 
> I LOVE eating in the dining car, and enjoy meeting new friends......blah, blah, blah. BUT SOME PEOPLE don't.
> 
> And there is always the "romance" factor of dining right in your room. I'll let your minds roll with that one.
> 
> I think ANYTHING that any rail carrier can do to DRAW ADD'L passengers is a bonus. Be it video games, open platform observations, casino, ANYthing, is a benefit.
> 
> Those of us who post on this board are an extreme MINORITY of the rail -traveling public. And our yearning for the nostalgic days of rail travel are just that, yearnings. "John Q. Traveling Public" couldn't care less is the car was built by Budd, PS, ACF, Kawasaki, Talgo..........
> 
> I for one am starting a separate savings account, called "Canadian"


Dude, calm down. We're just giving our honest reactions to reading about _The Canadian's_ new Hermit Class accommodations.


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## AlanB

jis said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why ***** about flat screens in the room? Some people, (many) would love to have that option either late at night, or when they become bored-to-tears at looking at the rolling plains of Alberta. (not me mind you)
> 
> 
> 
> Also just imagine the possibilities with a flat screen, if they were to use one channel to feed from a front facing camera in the engine!!! The possibilities opened up are interesting.
> 
> Remember that Amtrak tried flat screens in Viewliners, but of course they were all stolen by folks in Sunnyside as the rumors go.
Click to expand...

Actually it was the VCR's and the tapes with first run movies that were stolen in Sunnyside. The 5 or 6 inch screens were way too small to be of value to most people at that time and too hard to steal. This is not to say that the screens weren't costing Amtrak money, as they were easily damaged unfortunately.


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## Ispolkom

NS VIA Fan said:


> Perhaps for you but VIA is running more that a nostalgic excursion for Railfans. There’s an upscale market of travellers out there VIA is hoping to attract and they want their amenities including flat screen TVs!


Having shared the bottom bunk of a Superliner bedroom with Mrs. Ispolkom for a couple of nights last week, the bed in the deluxe bedroom looks wonderful!

I'm sure that the room charge will be out of my price range, but might there be another Via Rail sale? (A boy can hope.)


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## zephyr17

rrdude said:


> I for one am starting a separate savings account, called "Canadian"


Definitely watch those Express Deals (although I don't know if they'll ever post the super delux sleepers there), and you may not have to save as long as you think!


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## hello

Guest_NS VIA Fan_, thank you for posting the info ... I enjoyed looking through the photo's ... loved the photo's of the new rooms (would probably never be able to afford one), but was VERY disappointed to see that the dining car showed all of the gentlemen in suits ... if this is truly the case I will need to strike VIA off of my bucket list. Does anyone remember if this was the case on their trip?


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## NS VIA Fan

hello said:


> but was VERY disappointed to see that the dining car showed all of the gentlemen in suits ... if this is truly the case I will need to strike VIA off of my bucket list. Does anyone remember if this was the case on their trip?


Don't know which picture you were looking at but no one dresses any different in a VIA diner than they would on Amtrak. Me......usually jeans and a golf shirt.


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## Devil's Advocate

hello said:


> Guest_NS VIA Fan_, thank you for posting the info ... I enjoyed looking through the photo's ... loved the photo's of the new rooms (would probably never be able to afford one), but was VERY disappointed to see that the dining car showed all of the gentlemen in suits ... if this is truly the case I will need to strike VIA off of my bucket list. Does anyone remember if this was the case on their trip?


To me it looked like male VIA passengers dressed a step up from Amtrak. Something more akin to _business casual_ on my ride. There were few if any full suits but you'll see a sport jacket here and there. Full length trousers and many shirts were the button-up variety rather than pullovers. Younger folks had the "dress however you like" grunge thing going on. But what prompted my post more than anything was my curiosity over why you would see men in suits as a complete deal breaker. Can you enlighten us as to why that's so bad?


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## hello

Texas Sunset: Luggage ... and having to pack/carry a suit/jacket. We have to wear business attire (suit/jacket) for work, so when we travel on vacation we think: suits/jacket for work ... business casual for vacation!! We do wear long pants and collared shirts for dinner on Amtrak ... but we do NOT want to be carrying a suit/jacket ... and believe me ... it WOULD be a deal breaker. We cruise frequently, and a few years ago we changed cruise lines because of NCL's Freestyle dining ... no suits/jackets required for the main dining rooms. I know that people would say ..."you're on vacation -- dress how you want" ... but we do not want to feel uncomfortable by not adhering to a "dress code", and by the same token -- we would not want to upset others by not adhering to the required attire.

NS VIA Fan: long pants and collared shirts sound great! I had clicked on "sleeping class" and it was the 9th/10th photo: of the dining room, with everyone seated already.


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## Anderson

Being a realist, I think that the photo was probably staged in some form, and VIA _definitely_ tries to sell an upscale image for the Canadian. That said, I suspect that there _is_ a tendency for folks to dress a bit nicer on The Canadian because it's The Canadian.


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## hello

Thank you, all, for your answers ... always best to be informed!!


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## railiner

Back in the '50's and '60's, when some railroads still actually advertised for passengers, the photo's in the ads and brochures always depicted carefully staged professional models. They were always well dressed. Even the children. They usually showed young families travelling coach, and older couples in Pullman.


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## amamba

Just went over to the VIA website today and discovered what you already discovered quite some time ago - the pictures and promo material for the new "deluxe sleeper class" on the Canadian. I think it looks glorious and heavenly. I love the look of the luxurious beds, wood paneled walls, beautiful bathroom with private shower (which I don't think is available in the "cabins for two") AND the television. I for one got a little bored in the evening when it is dark outside and there isn't much to see, so I can definitely see a use for the TV at night.

H and I have been talking about planning a trip on the Canadian, and I think we would probably spring for the deluxe class if we could afford it and depending on the price differential. I think the room service would be nice for breakfast.


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