# The Ocean Limited - 110



## NS VIA Fan (Jun 30, 2014)

For a train thats future was uncertain only a couple of months ago (and might have come close to making its last run)....VIA is now planning a media event to celebrate the Ocean's 110th Anniversary on July 3rd at Moncton along with a reception in Halifax when the train arrives there later that evening. VIAs new President and CEO Yves Desjardins-Siciliano is attending.

Heres some shots of the Ocean over the years (& from the 70s on......Im not that old!)


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jun 30, 2014)

.......and last Saturdays e/b #14 at Moncton, New Brunswick and Amherst, Nova Scotia. Consist included 4 Coaches, 8 Sleepers, 2 Lounges, 1 Diner + Strathcona Park


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jun 30, 2014)

Below is a brochure from VIA at the Ocean's 100th anniversary in 2004. We'll have to see what VIA hands out this time......but to update the history over the past 10 years.....it was cut to tri-weekly in 2012 and just recovered from a near-death experience. Hopefully with VIA drawing the media's attention to the train and having the President/CEO attend......it will be around for a few more years!


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 30, 2014)

Most enjoyable as usual! Good to know that the Harper Govt didn't kill the Ocean! Is there an election coming up? LOL


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Jun 30, 2014)

:hi: Nice pics! :hi: Thanks for sharing! :hi:

And nice to see The Ocean live to celebrate being 110 years young!

:excl: :hi: Happy Birthday to The Ocean! :hi: :excl:


----------



## gaspeamtrak (Jun 30, 2014)

I hope the new Prez. will get my "Gaspe" train rolling again soon!????


----------



## gaspeamtrak (Jun 30, 2014)

It's hard to believe that there was also the "Scotian" running on this route up into the "70's or 80's"

They both were anywhere between 12 to 20 + cars long!

I think one used to leave around "17:00 to 17:35" and the other one left at "23:30" or "23:35" with the "Gaspe" section on it. The "Cavalier" also left in either of the time slots.

What a show with these two trains side by side in "Central station". The "Cav" was the overnight train to "Toronto" and it used to run between 7 to 10 cars!

Ah the good old days!

Maybe NS VIA FAN can add some more info here?

Thanks......


----------



## railiner (Jul 1, 2014)

gaspeamtrak said:


> It's hard to believe that there was also the "Scotian" running on this route up into the "70's or 80's"
> 
> They both were anywhere between 12 to 20 + cars long!
> 
> ...


And there was also the Atlantic Limited, taking the shortcut across northern Maine....looking at that route map in the brochure it is apparent of what a roundabout route the current Ocean uses in comparison....

As usual, great photos, NS VIA Fan!!!


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 1, 2014)

railiner said:


> And there was also the Atlantic Limited, taking the shortcut across northern Maine....looking at that route map in the brochure it is apparent of what a roundabout route the current Ocean uses in comparison....


 The Atlantic's route across Maine wasn't a through route to Halifax until VIA took over in 1979. Before that passengers were required to change trains from CP to CN in Saint John then again in Moncton to continue to Halifax. It was the shortest route at 750 miles but took nearly as long with double US-Canada Border crossings. In fact..just before the Atlantic was discontinued in 1994, it took a half hour longer than the Ocean did.

The Ocean's route via Campbellton is 840 miles between Montreal and Halifax. This is the 'Intercolonial Railway'. It may seem roundabout, but it served larger towns and cities that were located along the coast when it was built back in the mid to late 1800s. In the book 'The Ocean Limited - A Centennial Tribute' it says this route was preferable as it kept the line as far away as possible from the American Border in case of hostilities. (Guess we werent the best of friends at one time!)

Its always been the main passenger route to the Maritimes with the Ocean Limited, Advanced Ocean Limited, Scotian, Maritime Express, Cabot, Chaleur and St. Lawrence Special. The Ocean Limited handled Sleeping Cars only for a number of years and ran in multiple sections. For the summer of 1967, besides being heavy with coaches, the Ocean, Scotian, Cabot and Chaleur handled in excess of 30 sleepers a night east out of Montreal.

And there's a third route between Montreal and Moncton then onto Halifax over portions of the 'National Transcontinental Railway' at 795 miles. It handled the Cabot and Ocean for a brief time in the late 1960's but was generally served by local trains only.


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Jul 1, 2014)

NS VIA Fan said:


> In the book “The Ocean Limited – A Centennial Tribute” is says this route was preferable as it kept the line as far away as possible from the American Border in case of hostilities. (Guess we wern't the best of friends at one time!)[/font][/size]


This is the same reason that the Rideau Canal was built between Kingston, Ontario and Ottawa.

To this day, if you want to get into a 'dust up' between two folks from different sides of the world's longest non-militarized border, get two folks with a love of their respective country's history into a discussion about the causes, events and results of the War of 1812.


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 1, 2014)

The Ocean never ran with a Dome or Park Car until spring 1984. The last car was usually just a sleeper with a vestibule on the end......Nor did it have a full Stainless-Steel consist until 1992.











In its early years ('20s & '30s) it probably had a lounge car with an open platform......and for a brief period in the 1960's it ran with one of the exMilwaukee Road 'Skyview Cars'


----------



## railiner (Jul 2, 2014)

More great pics!

As for the Atlantic.....wasn't it possible at one time to go "CP all the way"? By taking their ferry from Saint John to Yarmouth, and then the Dominion Atlantic from Yarmouth up to Halifax?


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 2, 2014)

railiner said:


> As for the Atlantic.....wasn't it possible at one time to go "CP all the way"? By taking their ferry from Saint John to Yarmouth, and then the Dominion Atlantic from Yarmouth up to Halifax?


Yes, and the connections were seamless: The CPR Atlantic Limited arrived at Union Station in downtown Saint John which was just across the street from the CPR Ferry Terminal where the Princess of Acadia departed from for the 3 hour trip across the Bay of Fundy to Digby, NS. Here the Dominion Atlantic Railway Dayliner ran right out onto the wharf to make the connection.....then departed for Halifax.

This all changed in 1971. Saint John Union Station was demolished for construction of a new cross-town Thruway. CP built a new station out in the RR Yards a couple of miles west and CN did the same thing a couple of miles east of downtown. A new CP Princess of Acadia Ferry entered service which was geared more to car/truck traffic with an interchange on the Thruway and a new dock further out along the harbour.

Same thing on the Digby side......a new dock away from the downtown DAR Station and a taxi ride now required to connect with the Dayliner to Halifax.

The Princess of Acadia still runs but the passengers trains are gone from both Saint John and Digby.


----------



## railiner (Jul 2, 2014)

Thanks for that info. That Princess of Acadia sure has some beautiful classic lines.....looks like a mini ocean liner, much sleeker than the newer ferries with their boxy car carrier look.....


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 5, 2014)

railiner said:


> Thanks for that info. That Princess of Acadia sure has some beautiful classic lines.....looks like a mini ocean liner, much sleeker than the newer ferries with their boxy car carrier look.....


So not to stray too far off-topic......I’ll reply to this over in the Ferries, Ferries and More Ferries Forum....


----------



## neroden (Jul 5, 2014)

The Davy Crockett said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> > In the book “The Ocean Limited – A Centennial Tribute” is says this route was preferable as it kept the line as far away as possible from the American Border in case of hostilities. (Guess we wern't the best of friends at one time!)[/font][/size]
> ...



http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/british-view-war-1812-quite-differently-americans-do-180951852/

It's not actually too hard to figure out what was going on. The war was started locally by US expansion (settlement / invasion) into Native American territory of Tecumseh's Confederacy (with the usual fraudulent treaties as a basis), and known initially as "Tecumseh's War". It was accelerated by the the Napoleonic wars, which caused Britain to view everything in Manichean "with us or against us" terms and caused Britain to attempt full spectrum dominance of the seas (as we would call it today). The US was sympathetic to the side of Napoleon and refused to cooperate with the blockades (Jefferson was frankly bellicose, expecting to invade and conquer Canada). As a result British Canadians came to the defense of their Native American allies.

Madison ended up declaring war on the UK, with the reason being a set of shifting excuses, but the real reason was support for colonization of more Native American lands. He proceeded to strangle the entire coastal trade, including a ban on interstate coastal commerce. This resulted in resolutions refusing to be involved in the war by MA and CT -- the war was supported by the southern and western states, who wanted to make sure they managed to seize Tecumseh's land. New England delegates actually met at the Hartford Convention to propose Constitutional changes to prevent this sort of Presidential warmongering -- which they considered to be enabled by the 3/5 clause which gave white Southerners more voting power than northerners -- from being repeated. Madison actually sent federal troops to Albany with plans to invade Massachusetts and Connecticut just in case.

It ended when Lord Liverpool, PM of Great Britain, decided that the British public wouldn't pay taxes for the continuation of the war, and that there was no point in trying to rule the fractious American settlers; as a result he basically abandoned his Native American allies.

There has been some effort made by all sides to obscure the history of the war, because it's frankly kind of embarassing to everyone except the Shawnee, who have nothing to be ashamed of, but who lost everything in it. The main results of the war were the explusion of large numbers of Native Americans from their native territory to Kansas and eventually Oklahoma.

Tecumseh attempted to recruit among the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole, but most of them decided to maintain their treaty relations with the US.... which was probably a mistake, because the US under Andrew Jackson proceed to break the treaties a few years later and expel them in the Trail of Tears.

Understanding this period requires understanding the continuous wars to seize territory from the Native Americans, which went on and on and on. Since roughly 1900, Americans have not liked to talk about this. The Canadians don't like to talk about it either because their country's hands are equally dirty with respect to the "First Nations" of Canada. The British simply don't care.

Anyway, totally off-topic, but it's an interesting period to study...


----------

