# Pacific Parlour Car Rules



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 3, 2011)

I was on the Coast Starlight last week, and spent lots of time in the Pacific Parlour Car. I love this route, and have traveled it many times. The staff has a reputation for being relaxed, friendly, and laid back. but I guess the PPC attendent on this trip didn't get the memo. For example:

* He required each person to produce their reservation slip before he would serve them at lunch and dinner. One person, a really neat 85 year old lady who had traveled many a mile on Amtrak, couldn't find hers. She is digging through her purse saying, "I have never been asked to show my reservation slip. I didn't know it was so important". He snaps back, "Is is important to me!" She finally found it and was served lunch. Now, if he was overwhelmed with diners, I could understand, but he only scheduled a maximum of 4 people at each seating!

* For the wine and cheese tasting event, he cleared the car of anyone under 21 years old. When he told me my granddaughter would have to leave, I said, "On our last ride, our PPC attendent served her a cheese plate accompanied by a nice glass of Martinelli's". He got very serious and said, "That is totally against the rules. Tell me his name so I can report him!". Needless to say, I didn't give any names. (BTW, the movie theater downstairs was out of order, so that wasn't an option for the kids).

*After the Wine and Cheese event was over and we returned to the PPC, our new friends were full or stories about what transpired. A gentleman had been denied service and had been asked to leave because he didn't drink the wine. He is a recovering alcoholic but had wanted to do the cheese tasting. His wife had heroically offered to drink the wine for him, but that was not allowed. "If you don't drink the wine, you can't taste the cheese". He was laughing about it and said, "To be fair, it was announced as "wine AND cheese. So I guess you can't have one without the other!"

So while the guy might have adhered to the letter of the law, no one really appreciated his zeal. I have been on the CS where people were tripping all over each other to buy bottles of wine and PPC souveniers from enthusiastic car attendents, but very few people purchased anything from this poor guy.

So what are the laws and rules regarding meals and tastings on the PPC? Am I being too harsh on this guy?


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 3, 2011)

I've done the CS twice and had wonderful experiences in the PPC, with none of this guy's shenanigans.

Wherever they got this rube, they should toss him back asap.


----------



## George B (Jul 3, 2011)

What was the PPC attendant’s first name? Do you remember? I am familiar with several of the attendants who usually get assigned to the car. But, this guy sounds like he is new to the PPC, and doesn’t realize it is more laid back than the Diner.

Yes, a reservation is required most of the time for lunch and dinner, and attendants will get picky about it from time to time, just like in the Diner. I can understand the guy wanting to verify the reservation with the limited seating in the PPC. But, if the event happened as you described, he could have been a little friendlier about it. On the other hand, I see people try and sneak in on a reservation, or a table from time to time and ignore the rules.

Yes, there should be nobody under 21 in the area of the wine and cheese tasting. The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired. Usually the conductor will make an announcement while entering Oregon about the change in liquor laws in that state versus California. I was told that the interstate liquor license Amtrak has is tough to get, and violations threaten their ability to have one. I don’t know if that is true.

I don’t know what to say about the passenger being refused to participate because he wouldn’t drink the wine. Very strange.

I have always had a wonderful experience in the PPC, and the attendants have been wonderful. Several of them, including a gentleman named Greg, went above and beyond what is expected of that position, and we tipped him accordingly.


----------



## JayPea (Jul 3, 2011)

I too have used the PPC twice and had good experiences both times. Sounds like this guy is another of those Amtrak employees that makes up his own rules as he goes along.


----------



## hello (Jul 3, 2011)

_This past May we were on the CS and had all of our meals in the PPC ... not once were we given a reservation slip. We did have to "sign up" with the PPC attendant for a certain time ... but they had our names on a list ... not the reservation slip that we are normally given by the dining car person who comes to our room to take our dining reservation._

_ _

_We have been to over 12 wine tastings on both the CS and the EB .... and I am usually the most popular person at the table, as I don't drink either ... so everyone else gets "a little extra". There has never been any negatives comments directed at me ... usually they just smile .. and a few have asked if I would like something else to drink --- but as I always have a water with me, that has not been necessary. I can understand their 21 and older requirement, but I would think that if you are an adult -- and you have paid for sleeper accommodations -- then you have paid for the cheese and wine tasting!_

_ _

_Trainmans daughter ... you are right ... we ALWAYS end up buying something (not wine) at the cheese and wine tasting ... this past May it was CS wine glasses that our PPC attendant would wrap in bubble wrap for everyone. _

_ _

_I love the PPC!_


----------



## roomette (Jul 3, 2011)

I also love the PPC but am not a fan of italics. Not sure why. Just harder to read I guess.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 3, 2011)

Please include the name of the employee when you get the chance.


----------



## Shanghai (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.

Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would

it be any different than in the dining car? Wine is served

there with passengers under the age of 21.

How does one reserve for meals in the PPC?

What are the souvenirs available for purchase in he PPC?

Are you usually able to get a reservation for dinner in the PPC?


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 3, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.
> 
> Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would
> 
> ...



Reservations are done differently. Once you just signed up with the attendant, once the attendant gave slips & another time the LSA came thru your car taking reservations for both the PPC & Diner. Reservations can be tight, depending on the entrees offered.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 3, 2011)

we have had little martinets from time to time as sca. lsa, coach attendant and parlour car attendant. it detracts from the trip. we have also had memorable amtrak employees. i wish their was someone on the train, other than the conductor, whose job it was to be in charge of the customer service aspect and to whom positive or negative impressions could be reported


----------



## guest (Jul 3, 2011)

The law is the reason that under-21's aren't allowed in during wine tasting. They can walk through, just like walking through the bar section of a restaurant to get to the bathroom. But they cannot sit down. That's the reason that the afternoon movie is kid-friendly. Any LSA who doesn't keep underage kids out is risking his or her job.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree that this jerk sounds like a last minute fill in from a NY Diner Crew or a CHI Gate Attendant! :angry: If his Wrong Statement about no-one under 21 was True there couldnt be any children in the Diner, Lounge or Cafe Car where Alcohol is Sold and Consumed! (Of course giving alcohol to someone under 21 is a Violation of most Stae Laws)I would definitely report this guy to Customer Relations and also write a Letter to Joe Boardmans Office in Washington, we don't need People like this on Amtrak! :help: Doing your job is one thing, having an Attitude and making up Rules is another! :excl: :excl: :excl:


----------



## AlanB (Jul 3, 2011)

George B said:


> The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired.


Amtrak doesn't need a liquor license from Oregon or any state.

Amtrak does tend to follow to some extent the local state liquor laws, but they don't need a license.

And in just about any state that I know of, children are allowed in a bar with their parents if they are sitting at a table where food is served. Children cannot sit a the actual bar on a stool, but they are permitted at a table.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 3, 2011)

The tastings are popular, so it may be they would rather save seats for participating adults!?!


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 3, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> we don't need People like this on Amtrak! :help: Doing your job is one thing, having an Attitude and making up Rules is another! :excl: :excl: :excl:


This is what gives amtrak a bad name. they keep hiring bad employees. it seams like amtrak has more bad employees then good. they don´t have enough supervisors who actually do there jobs either. For those who say the resevation was a big deal there was only 6 people in the car.He had no right to deny the old gentlemen the cheese just cause he didn´t want the wine. His wire offered to drink both glasses but he had to be a real jackass and refuse. We don´t need employees thinking they are above the rules and can make up rules as they go along.


----------



## George B (Jul 3, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I'm anxious to experience the PPC later this year.
> 
> Regarding the under 21 years of age in the PPC, why would
> 
> ...


I am not very familiar with liquor laws…especially the ones in California. Usually the differentiation comes from the control point (who is actually pouring the alcohol and has control of the original container), and whether or not meal service is being provided (some states require a certain percentage of an activity be related to food sales to differentiate between a restaurant license and a bar license).

So, my guess is that since the wine and cheese tasting is not part of a meal service (the cheese does not count as meal service), it falls under the bar license, and therefore is treated as a bar environment.

I looked up the violation penalties in California and they can yank ALL of your liquor licenses temporarily for the first violation.


----------



## George B (Jul 3, 2011)

AlanB said:


> George B said:
> 
> 
> > The Coast Starlight crew does tend to strictly enforce liquor laws, as it would be easy for them to lose their liquor license, and that would not be good for business. I don’t blame them for being aggressive about this. Fines and fees for violations can be heavy, and the crewmember would likely get fired.
> ...


Not true. You are required to have a liquor license in the State of California to sell or serve alcohol. Period. Even airlines that sell alcohol while flying over California are required to have a state liquor license. Some airlines and transportation entities don’t bother to get the license, and they may never get caught, but when there is an alcohol-related death or injury, they can get sued like you wouldn’t believe.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jul 3, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak doesn't need a liquor license from Oregon or any state.
> 
> Amtrak does tend to follow to some extent the local state liquor laws, but they don't need a license.
> 
> And in just about any state that I know of, children are allowed in a bar with their parents if they are sitting at a table where food is served. Children cannot sit a the actual bar on a stool, but they are permitted at a table.


The question of whether Amtrak or airlines need liquor licenses is not clear. However, Amtrak and airlines obtain liquor licenses for all the states in which they operate. They do this as a courtesy and to avoid potential litigation that could confirm the states right to regulate sales on trains and planes. Similarly, most states do not impose all the restrictions of regular retail outlets on the carriers, also to avoid litigation that might find their rights limited.

The problem is the 21st Amendment - the amendment that repealed prohibition. Section 2 of the 21st Amendment specifically gave the states complete control over the importation and sale of intoxicating beverages. That states feel that extends to sales by interstate transportation carriers. Opposing that is the right of the federal government to regulate interstate commerce. The carriers feel this includes the regulation of passenger services, including liquor sales. To keep legal peace, carriers get state liquor licenses.


----------



## zepherdude (Jul 3, 2011)

But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.


----------



## RailFanLNK (Jul 3, 2011)

We were on the PPC last fall and it was WONDERFUL. We had the attendent Alan who was pictured in the Amtrak 40th Anniversary book. He was GREAT! It was SO laid back. Having a turd like the one we are talking about here would have put a damper on what was a wonderful honeymoon trip on Amtrak.


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 3, 2011)

It was perfectly acceptable to sit next to kids and drink wine, Bloody Mary's, etc all day long in the PPC except during the Wine/Cheese event. At that time anyone under 21 had to leave the entire car, even the easy chair section where there was no wine tasting taking place.

If this is the law, I have no problem with it; but on previous trips this hadn't been an issue. This guy's attitude is what got me--demanding the name of the nice attendent who had served my granddaughter Martinelli's and cheese so he could report him.


----------



## George B (Jul 3, 2011)

zepherdude said:


> But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.


Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.

Amtrak does not have a reputation for the most customer-service oriented employees by far, but several people in this forum just can’t wait to start bashing Amtrak employees without considering the situation or the other side. I appreciate that the OP posted the incident here with the intention of wanting to find out more info, instead of just bashing the employee endlessly.


----------



## MattW (Jul 3, 2011)

Would calling Amtrak's customer service people and asking what the rules are provide any insight? Would the people at the other end of the phone be able to provide any information?


----------



## ColdRain&Snow (Jul 3, 2011)

Just more anecdotal evidence that Trainmans daughter's PPC attendant was veering into the tyrannical role of the Almighty Attendant. I rode the Starlight over the past two days and had a lovely attendant named Carmella. Just as with every other meal I have had there and in the Dining Car, no mention of needing a ticket stub was made. I ride the Starlight on a pretty regular basis, and I will say that Carmella did make announcements on both days about being 21 for the wine tastings, something I don't recall hearing during past trips. Perhaps management issued a recent directive about this.

But as for the tyrannical PPC attendant, please report him with all relevant details as soon as possible. In these situations, the best thing we can do for Amtrak's future is bring these miscreants to the attention of management and start the paper trail documenting the employee's misconduct.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 3, 2011)

zepherdude said:


> But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.



I agree, the guy sounds like a jerk! But on my recent PPC eperience 2 weeks ago, both on the #11 & #14, it was announced on the IC that no one under 21 years of age was allowed to participate!!!


----------



## RRrich (Jul 3, 2011)

Most of us carry phone with cameras and voice recorders. I would request the PCA to repeat (for the recorder) his rules, take his picture and tell him that this goes in an email to Amtrak. I would also ignore him, requesting that he call the conductor.


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 3, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> zepherdude said:
> 
> 
> > But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.
> ...


Ultimately this may be because they want to sell those bottles of wine. They'd be cutting out potential buyers if they gave a seat to a minor.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 3, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> zepherdude said:
> 
> 
> > But why are under 21s allowed in the snack bar, where there is beer, wine n booze, like someone else stated, under 21s are allowed in the dining car. This sounds like an arrogant employee trying to be the boss of his private domain and prove he is in charge. This can not be blamed on liquor laws. This guy was a jerk.
> ...


It appears the no one under 21 rule is being more enforced now then it used to be. But still that´s no excuse for the PPC attendants actions or attitude.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Jul 3, 2011)

RRrich said:


> Most of us carry phone with cameras and voice recorders. I would request the PCA to repeat (for the recorder) his rules, take his picture and tell him that this goes in an email to Amtrak. I would also ignore him, requesting that he call the conductor.



Also say he´s going to be a Youtube star LOL.


----------



## Steve4031 (Jul 4, 2011)

Recording the guy would only escalate the situation. I got stuck with a tyrannical ppc attendant named mark. He was obnoxious. Even his colleagues agreed.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 4, 2011)

didn't amtrak used to have a train manager who was on the train and in charge of obs? maybe i just dreamed that but it thought they used to.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 4, 2011)

yarrow said:


> didn't amtrak used to have a train manager who was on the train and in charge of obs? maybe i just dreamed that but it thought they used to.


I believe that was the Chief of On Board Services, a position that was done away with several years ago.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jul 4, 2011)

I think some of you guys/gals, those with lots of experience, should contact Amtrak and volunteer to be "secret shoppers". h34r:

Maybe ask for free railfare.


----------



## ColdRain&Snow (Jul 4, 2011)

yarrow said:


> didn't amtrak used to have a train manager who was on the train and in charge of obs? maybe i just dreamed that but it thought they used to.


Looking back in my CS trip journals, I noted that the train manager for the Starlight joined our trains during trips in both January and February of 2010. After boarding in Oakland, she rode the train down to LA and made it a point to stop through each room and inquire about our onboard experiences. I've also met up with a kind man named Winston who was the train manager aboard the Sunset Limited as well as a nice woman named Meg who was the train manager aboard the Empire Builder. These were both during the past 12-18 months. I hope Amtrak continues to keep these folks out on the rails to assist in the maintenance/improvement of service levels.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 4, 2011)

Steve4031 said:


> Recording the guy would only escalate the situation. I got stuck with a tyrannical ppc attendant named mark. He was obnoxious. Even his colleagues agreed.


Can the OP confirm if this is the same guy?



ColdRain&Snow said:


> Looking back in my CS trip journals, I noted that the train manager for the Starlight joined our trains during trips in both January and February of 2010. After boarding in Oakland, she rode the train down to LA and made it a point to stop through each room and inquire about our onboard experiences.


Was this strictly a sleeper thing or did she talk to coach passengers as well?


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 4, 2011)

His name was William. Aside from the examples I gave of his tyranical adherance to rules - either real or his own - he was a pleasant enough guy. But when it came to the things I mentioned, I felt he was out of line!


----------



## amamba (Jul 4, 2011)

I took the route guide - the little blue book/pamphlet for the Coast Starlight - home with me after my trip in March of this year. It clearly states in the route guide that the wine and cheese tasting in the PPC is for adults over 21 years old only, and that anyone under 21 would not be allowed in the car.

So it appears that this is a legitimate rule, albeit one that isn't always enforced. We can all surmise as to the reasoning behind the rule, but it seems like that is the rule.


----------



## Tumbleweed (Jul 4, 2011)

He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 4, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....


In a normal business situation treating your customers rudely would seem to be just about the worst thing you can do to "protect your interests" in a service job.


----------



## ColdRain&Snow (Jul 4, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Was this strictly a sleeper thing or did she talk to coach passengers as well?


I don't know for sure whether or not she spoke to folks from every car, though I did see her in the Dining Car talking to patrons there.


----------



## Tumbleweed (Jul 4, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Tumbleweed said:
> 
> 
> > He may have been just called on the carpet for allowing people under 21 during the tasting.....just a natural reaction to protect your interests when it comes to your job.....
> ...


Not saying he was right....just that he may have been reacting to a reprimand......


----------



## AlanB (Jul 4, 2011)

George B said:


> Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.


Since they're not selling the wine, but instead giving it away, it's pretty easy for Amtrak to meet that 60% threshold. And seeing as how they encourage under 21's to go the the theatre located in the same car that rule cannot be in place here. Heck, even during the wine tasting they have to permit kids to walk through the car. I suspect that this is more just a rule to try to make life easier on the attendants and avoid any potential issues.

Now I can't say that this holds true during the entire year, but many times during the summer the event on the first afternoon out of LA is often sold out or close to it. So they tend to chase anyone, not just under 21's, out of the car if you're not partaking of the event. And in the case of someone clearly over 21 not drinking, if that person was taking up a space that someone who would be drinking needed, that would probably be wrong. But in the OP's case, that was clearly not the case. So there was no good reason to throw the non-drinker out.


----------



## George B (Jul 5, 2011)

AlanB said:


> George B said:
> 
> 
> > Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.
> ...


Amtrak does charge you to participate in the wine and cheese tasking. Even if it was free, California probably still classifies it as a bar environment. If you set up a bar that is giving out free drinks, you still cannot, under law, allow folks under 21 in the bar. The lower level of the car is not considered part of the area where the alcohol is being served. It is just like restaurants that have an open floor plan with a bar at one end. There is no wall separating the dining area from the bar, but under 21s are not allowed to sit in the bar area. The theatre is removed enough from the upper area that it does not have to be cleared of under 21s. It is often up to the licensee to determine what constitutes the bar area, and enforce that strictly. Some things, such as sitting right at the bar are obviously part of the bar.

I don’t know the reasoning at all behind not allowing someone to stay who is not drinking. That must be the attendant’s goofy rule.


----------



## amamba (Jul 5, 2011)

Wine and cheese tasting on the CS was free when I took it in March. Was it still free, trainman's daughter, when you traveled recently?


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 5, 2011)

amamba said:


> Wine and cheese tasting on the CS was free when I took it in March. Was it still free, trainman's daughter, when you traveled recently?


Yep. It was still free last week when this happened.


----------



## George B (Jul 5, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > Wine and cheese tasting on the CS was free when I took it in March. Was it still free, trainman's daughter, when you traveled recently?
> ...


Really? They were charging sleeper passengers last year. Judging by the lack of turnout, I can see why they might have gone back to it being free.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 5, 2011)

George B said:


> Trainmans daughter said:
> 
> 
> > amamba said:
> ...


Yup, they've gone back to free. However, when I did the CS 2 years ago and they were charging, they had almost sold out the wine tasting.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 5, 2011)

George B said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > George B said:
> ...


I won't rehash the charge vs free since we've already covered that aspect.

As for bar at one end, that's exactly what Amtrak has. Therefore the same logic is invoked and under 21's don't need to leave the upper area. There are clearly 3 separate and distinct seating areas within the PPC car on the upper level. You have full tables, you have mini tables to hold drinks, and then you have just straight seating. So if we're going to apply the rule that under 21's must not sit at the bar, since the wine tasting generally only uses the first 2 sections, there remains no good reason or law to throw under 21's out of the distinct seating area. They aren't sitting at the bar and they are separated from the actual drinking.


----------



## George B (Jul 5, 2011)

Well, then someone will have to take it up with Amtrak if they don’t like how Amtrak defines their bar area. My guess is they got dinged on an inspection and are now fully-enforcing the under 21 rule due to fallout. I know the specifics on how the liquor laws are enforced in my state, but am less familiar with California. Amtrak might be following another set of liquor laws for all I know. But, denying under-21s access to the PPC during the wine event is smart, as it will cover you in most states and keep legal liability down. Most entities don’t intentionally gamble with their liquor license. Losing it would be bad news.

Alright, I give in. I can’t go on with this topic anymore. I don’t condone bad attitudes by Amtrak employees any more than anybody else does here. But, nobody here wants to support the employees when they are trying to do what is right, even though it isn’t what is popular. The attendant the OP had to deal with sounds like someone who could really use some charm lessons. But he was right on the meal reservations and on the under-21s. His attitude could have been a lot better.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 5, 2011)

Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???


----------



## Peter KG6LSE (Jul 5, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???


Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy .


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 5, 2011)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???
> ...


While that is a good idea, it wouldn't work since the PPC staff needs quick access to the Diner to bring in the PPC meals.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jul 5, 2011)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy.
> ...


I thought I read that the PPC entrees are heated all at once and then brought over in a single movement and simply kept in a warmer of some sort? If true and if I'm understanding this correctly it sounds like it wouldn't be too much of a change to the process. Or maybe the diner could be moved to the end as well. ^_^


----------



## amamba (Jul 5, 2011)

AlanB said:


> George B said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Wine tasting took over the entire upper level of the PPC on my last trip - all three sections including swivel chairs, middle section, and booths. However, children were allowed to stay and were given cheese and sparkling cider. In fact, another pax was reading the route guide and specifically asked the PPC attendant if her two children, I would guess ages 10 and 12, had to leave, and the attendant said it was fine for them to stay.

I should add, I don't really care either way, I am just pointing it out that it does seem to be the official rule that under 21s are not allowed in the upper level of the PPC during the wine tasting. I am just again mentioning that I don't think this particular attendant was making that rule up as I read it in the route guide. Maybe someone should ask amtrak why this particular rule is in place so we know for sure.


----------



## Peter KG6LSE (Jul 5, 2011)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > Rail Freak said:
> ...


I was not aware of this . Ok then I guess its not such a good idea .

Peter


----------



## leemell (Jul 5, 2011)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???
> ...


Another problem with that is that the sleepers are at the front of the train between the transition car and the PPC, so everyone in the sleepers would have to walk through the diner and three to four coaches to get to the PPC. Amtrak did put the sleepers at the rear of the train for a few weeks last year, but soon put them back in the front. Almost everyone OBS and passengers hated that arrangement.


----------



## ATXEagle (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 6, 2011)

trainplane1974 said:


> I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.


Generallly, the wine/cheese event is around 3 pm each day. Your chance of getting great service is hugely in your favor. If you are lucky, you'll be blessed with Debbie, the red-headed bombshell. Or the famous Alan, who gets rave reviews.

Have a great trip. I'm jealous!


----------



## ATXEagle (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll hope for one of those two! I've usually lucked out with good service most of the time.


----------



## GG-1 (Jul 6, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> trainplane1974 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.
> ...


Aloha

My recollection is the wine tasting is only the first day.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 6, 2011)

GG-1 said:


> Trainmans daughter said:
> 
> 
> > trainplane1974 said:
> ...


Nope, supposed to happen both afternoons on the CS. On the EB it only happens one afternoon.


----------



## Cristobal (Jul 6, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> trainplane1974 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.
> ...


I've been fortunate enough to have Debbie as PPC attendant twice on trips from LAX to SJC. She is quite a pistol.  Carmella is another very good one (had her twice between SJC and TAC, PDX). Michelle also comes to mind as very friendly. Along with a few others that didn't leave as big an impression but were all friendly and courteous nonetheless.

It should also be pointed out that the cheese and the wines for tasting are different both days. The first day on the n/b CS (14) are California wines and cheeses and on the second day they are from the PNW. The reverse is true for the s/b CS (11).


----------



## ReidTYK (Jul 24, 2011)

I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?


----------



## printman2000 (Jul 24, 2011)

ReidTYK said:


> I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?


Kids are not a problem. They have little trays of cheese for each person and also offered a sparkling cider. I think they even offered our kids other juice if they wanted it.

If if you do not go to the reception, you can board with the rest of the sleeper passengers.

This, of course, if my experience from a couple of years ago. I assume nothing has changed other than it is a dining car now instead of a diner-lite.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 24, 2011)

ReidTYK said:


> I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?


They board the Sleeping Car passengers early from the Metro Lounge. You and your friend can board your sleeper and go to your room with dad but chances are you will not be able to attend the wine and cheese party, the diner is small on this train and lately Amtrak has been denying minors access to cars when alcohol is being served except for diners during meals and cafe cars! (I dont get the difference myself but this is a country of goofy alcohol rules! :wacko: )You can either stand on the platform outside your car or stay in your room,perhaps the cafe car attendant will let you stay in there,it's not open but the guy might be a good guy, some are???

You didnt mention whether you were on the NYP or BOS section of the Lake Shore, the Boston Section is way in the front of the Train, the NY Section is on the rear with the Diner. Hope that helps!


----------



## AlanB (Jul 25, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> ReidTYK said:
> 
> 
> > I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?
> ...


Nothing has changed, I just attended the party this past Saturday. We had no minors in the car, but that was by choice not by some rule. In fact the one SA Alex, mentioned recently in the Best SCA thread, specifically told one father that both his wife & 10 year old daughter were welcome and that they did have offerings other than wine for them. They hadn't come down because they thought there was only wine to drink. Hubby called the wife, but since they were in the Boston sleeper at the far end of the train from the diner, they decided not to bother.

So instead Alex wrapped up to plates with the cheese, grapes, & crackers and provided 2 bottles of sparkling cider for the Dad to carry back to them when he left.

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.


----------



## dan72 (Jul 25, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> His name was William. Aside from the examples I gave of his tyranical adherance to rules - either real or his own - he was a pleasant enough guy. But when it came to the things I mentioned, I felt he was out of line!


Sorry I'm a bit late in joining this thread.

We had William on 6/27 when we rode the CS from PDX to SAC (hoping to post my report in the next week or two). I know when he announced the wine and cheese tasting he asked folks who were not planning participating to make room for others as he was expecting a full car (which was true it did fill up). I don't recall him asking for ID's although if he did, it didn't strike me as an issue. The same with our meal reservation (then again I keep ours in my wallet as some ask for it and others don't, but just in case).

I do remember him getting on the PA and reminding parents not to let their children go through the cars unattended. Totally appropriate move.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing your experience in any. It surprises as he didn't strike me as that kind of person. It does make you wonder if he had a recent performance review or reprimand that put him on edge. Some folks can be Jekyll and Hyde that way if they are having a bad day for some reason. It's not an excuse, but does make one wonder...

Anyway, sorry to hear about. The PPC is really a great addition for that train!

Dan


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 25, 2011)

AlanB said:


> But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.



I was on the #14 last month & the PPC Attendant announced on the IC that minors were not allowed!!! ( There was a lady with an 11 year old son who stayed in the roomette while the Mom attented the Tasting.) Maybe it was because it was a very crowed train!?!?


----------



## AlanB (Jul 25, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.
> ...


My post was in response to someone riding the Lake Shore Limited; not the Coast Starlight.


----------



## George B (Jul 25, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.
> ...


The Coast Starlight is following liquor laws for the State of California, Oregon, and Washington. More specifically, California and Oregon have some strange and strict laws that no other states have on the books. Other trains in other states are a different story.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 25, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


OOOPS, Sorry!!!!!


----------



## trainman74 (Jul 26, 2011)

George B said:


> More specifically, California and Oregon have some strange and strict laws that no other states have on the books.


You can say that of _every_ state's liquor laws -- seems like every state is slightly different and has (or had until recently) at least one strange and strict law.


----------



## amamba (Jul 26, 2011)

It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 26, 2011)

amamba said:


> It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.


In Texas Liqour stores have to be Closed on Sundays and by 9PM during the week!Wine and Alcohol can be served/sold but not before Noon on Sundays or after Midnight,1AM, or2AM depending on the County/City!! Of the 254 Counties in Texas, 70+ are still "Dry" which means Boot Legging is a lucrative business! :lol: Along the Mexican Border (where the Drinking Age is "officially" 16 but in effect Do you have the Money is ther real determining factor) Teens can drink to their hearts content! (well, it's sort of dangerous now, not like it was!  ) Louisiana has a lower drinking age (not sure, maybe 18???) so underage can cross the borders to party there too! Oklahoma used to be Totally "Dry", they have some really strange laws also! (Dont know for sure all of the rules,, Texans only go to Oklahoma to Gamble/Drink and Chase Ugly women! :lol: )


----------



## Trainmans daughter (Jul 26, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.
> ...


So what you're saying, Jim, is that if you live in or visit Texas, you better plan ahead and stock up!

The differences in state alcohol law might explain my original post. My granddaughter was allowed to participate in the wine/cheese tasting last summer while rolling through Oregon (served sparkling cider, of course). She was denied this event last month while traveling through California. Well, that makes sense (not!).

But that still doesn't explain why the passenger, a totally grown-up person, was denied a plate of cheese because he wasn't a wine drinker! All the other passengers in the PPC got a huge kick out of that.


----------



## tp49 (Jul 27, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> Louisiana has a lower drinking age (not sure, maybe 18???) so underage can cross the borders to party there too!


Louisiana's drinking age is 21. They changed the law back around 1996 or 97. This was so that they would receive federal highway funding dollars. Prior to that it was 18 to purchase and 21 to consume and what a joke of a law it was back then.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 27, 2011)

tp49 said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Louisiana has a lower drinking age (not sure, maybe 18???) so underage can cross the borders to party there too!
> ...


Thanks for the update,Ive seen obvious teenagers drinking in New Orleans so figured it was still 18!! ^_^ (I know, New Orleans is another country!) ! Id say that ALL Drinking/Alcohol Laws are a Joke! :wacko: And yes, you have to plan ahead in Texas, some people have to drive hundreds of miles to purchase their alcohol, it's a looooooong way across Texas!! :help:


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 27, 2011)

PPC rules?




I don't care about no dang rules!


----------



## jmbgeg (Jul 27, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.
> ...


Ok, so how about AU members that sometimes behave like children? :giggle:


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 27, 2011)

jmbgeg said:


> Ok, so how about AU members that sometimes behave like children? :giggle:


If that were the case, the PPC would be *EMPTY* on 10/5-6/11, since we have most of the sleepers!


----------



## jmbgeg (Jul 27, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so how about AU members that sometimes behave like children? :giggle:
> ...


They will probably be proactive and post an undercover Amtrak Police operative in the adjacent car to maintain peace and order.


----------



## sunchaser (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm sure they have rules about children being in the PPC on the Coast Starlight during the Wine and Cheese Tasting, but the two times we rode in '09, they were not enforced. When we were heading north, a couple with two young children, around 3 or 4 years and 5 or 6 years were allowed to sit with their parents at the booth throughout the tasting. They were pretty bored. At one point the older one went down to the theater, but didn't stay long. The younger one whined and cried through the last half. On the southbound trip, there were some teenagers who wanted to finish their board game, and the Attendant gave them permission to stay 'as long as you don't disturb the other passengers'.


----------

