# NJT's Princeton Dinky cancelled until further notice



## Roger Dodger the III (Mar 16, 2010)

According to New Jersey Transit's website the Princeton Dinky a one car train which runs between Princeton Junction and Princeton Station (Princeton Univ.) has been suspended until further notice due to storn damage, alternate bus service is being provided and there is no estimate time of when service will be restored.

Boy this is going to be a nightmare for students, faculty and staff at PU who commute.


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## had8ley (Mar 16, 2010)

Roger Dodger the III said:


> According to New Jersey Transit's website the Princeton Dinky a one car train which runs between Princeton Junction and Princeton Station (Princeton Univ.) has been suspended until further notice due to storn damage, alternate bus service is being provided and there is no estimate time of when service will be restored.
> Boy this is going to be a nightmare for students, faculty and staff at PU who commute.


9 times out of time 10 this is the signal for closure of a service. Just look at the Sunset~ the tracks have been up for over 4 years and no service in sight. A bus requires one driver; the P Jct. requires a train crew and mechanical back up plus the lonely train car costs way more than a bus. My bet is you've probably seen the last of a dinosaur run.


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## John Bredin (Mar 16, 2010)

had8ley said:


> Roger Dodger the III said:
> 
> 
> > According to New Jersey Transit's website the Princeton Dinky a one car train which runs between Princeton Junction and Princeton Station (Princeton Univ.) has been suspended until further notice due to storn damage, alternate bus service is being provided and there is no estimate time of when service will be restored.
> ...


I'll take that bet, $20 cash (well, wire transfer) on the barrel-head that service is back up within a week, by or on March 23.

The weather in the region has been atrocious -- haven't you seen the news pictures from New Jersey of houses flooded to their windows and people being taken in boats from their homes?!? Is there any *reason* (and pessimism without some factual basis is not a reason) to believe that the announced weather-related suspension is anything other than a weather-related suspension?

First of all, NJT is not Amtrak. Second, there have been *many* weather-related suspensions on Amtrak since the Katrina/Sunset "suspension", including on long-distance routes, and all have ended with service restored. Indeed, if you can find another *weather-related* suspension (and I include mudslides and rockslides in "weather") of Amtrak service in the last decade other than Katrina/Sunset that resulted in service not being restored, I'll gladly give you $20 above and beyond the Princeton Dinky bet.

Sorry for my vehemence on the issue, but as a passenger rail supporter I am tired of baseless and breathless pessimism. A little pessimism is appropriate and even useful when it has some factual basis, but is irritating and counterproductive when it does not.


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## rrdude (Mar 16, 2010)

'Sides, they got all them egg-heads at Princeton, both perfessors and students trying to get an ed-u-ma-cation.

They can raise a real ruckus if they want to, I just don't know how "passionate" they are about the Dinky.


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## AAARGH! (Mar 16, 2010)

Princeton Dinky has to be the worst train name I have ever heard!


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## jis (Mar 16, 2010)

AAARGH! said:


> Princeton Dinky has to be the worst train name I have ever heard!


OK, we'll use the other name - PJ&B (Princeton Junction and Back) :lol:


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## AAARGH! (Mar 16, 2010)

jis said:


> AAARGH! said:
> 
> 
> > Princeton Dinky has to be the worst train name I have ever heard!
> ...


How about the Princeton Yo-Yo?


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## jis (Mar 16, 2010)

AAARGH! said:


> jis said:
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> 
> > AAARGH! said:
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Haven't heard that one before. PJ&B is actually used in several articles and such.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 16, 2010)

had8ley said:


> 9 times out of time 10 this is the signal for closure of a service. Just look at the Sunset~ the tracks have been up for over 4 years and no service in sight. A bus requires one driver; the P Jct. requires a train crew and mechanical back up plus the lonely train car costs way more than a bus. My bet is you've probably seen the last of a dinosaur run.


I suspect you're right. NJT has been aching to kill that thing for a while. But its an Arrow III, so its probably not as expensive as you think. Its a self-propelled item. But I think you're right. I think its gonna be gone for at least a good while. At least until people at our semi-useful NJ-ARP go into action trying to get it restored.


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## Jersey Jeff (Mar 17, 2010)

Roger Dodger the III said:


> According to New Jersey Transit's website the Princeton Dinky a one car train which runs between Princeton Junction and Princeton Station (Princeton Univ.) has been suspended until further notice due to storn damage, alternate bus service is being provided and there is no estimate time of when service will be restored.
> Boy this is going to be a nightmare for students, faculty and staff at PU who commute.


At first I was going to call our guest out on the carpet by responding that storm damage generally doesn't have much to do with the abandonment of a rail line (unless you are the Erie Lackawanna vs. Hurricane Agnes in 1972), but then I came across this hare-brained proposal by the former Princeton mayor to replace the dinky with a - gasp - _bus_.


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## John Bredin (Mar 17, 2010)

Jersey Jeff said:


> Roger Dodger the III said:
> 
> 
> > According to New Jersey Transit's website the Princeton Dinky a one car train which runs between Princeton Junction and Princeton Station (Princeton Univ.) has been suspended until further notice due to storn damage, alternate bus service is being provided and there is no estimate time of when service will be restored.
> ...


Right, and I saw that on the Web while searching for whether the Dinky is back in operation. However, the same news site has a story on Princeton-area flood damage that includes the following:



> Dinky service was suspended over the weekend through Monday as a result of a fallen tree across the tracks near Faculty Road, according to NJ Transit spokesman Dan Stessel. Buses have been replacing all scheduled Dinky trips, he said, allowing commuters to make their scheduled connections.
> The length of the power outage means that the Dinky train needs to be swapped out for another, which can only be done overnight with permission from Amtrak. He said Monday afternoon that the transfer could be made that night, allowing service to continue as normal on Tuesday. ”We’re hopeful that we’ll be able to service restored for tomorrow morning,” he said. He advised Dinky commuters to check the NJ Transit Web site before setting out Tuesday, and to build an extra five or 10 minutes into their commute just in case.


Checking the New Jersey Transit website, there are no service alerts for the Northeast Corridor line, which is where they listed the Dinky suspension alert yesterday.

I'm not questioning that *someone* is talking about ending the Dinky as a rail service. However,

1) that someone is *not* from New Jersey Transit. The proposal wasn't even being presented to NJT but to the Borough of Princeton. Wake me up when NJT is formally proposing this or someone is formally proposing this to NJT.

2) suggesting a policy change is a long way from passing one. Judging from the article and comments on the BRT proposal, it would be an understatement to say that the BRT idea is unpopular. If I had a dime for every bad idea I've seen being "floated" seemingly out of nowhere and just as quickly shot down, I'd have enough to buy a private rail car. 

3) considering the *massive* number of weather suspensions by Amtrak and commuter rail operators in any given year, it is IMHO *not* reasonable to assume that a _weather suspension_ is a pretext for ending service. I know many people are still rightfully angry about the Katrina/Sunset fiasco, but it is an anomaly.


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## had8ley (Mar 18, 2010)

John Bredin said:


> had8ley said:
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> 
> > Roger Dodger the III said:
> ...


Hold the phone !!! I'm not advocating any service curtailment BUT NJT is taking a serious financial hit in operating this service. I don't have the numbers but I bet the next story will be something like this; "The NJT bean counters have determined that continuance of the Pitch & Putt (we used to call it that when I went to Villanova and we'd look over at it when stopping at Princeton on a "Clocker.") is not economically feasible at this time unless Federal aid is forthcoming and revenue growth in the future is assured by fare increases." As far as the NEC suspensions you're talking about four main tracks and multi-car interstate trains not a slow boat to Princeton. It almost a David & Goliath analogy.


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## had8ley (Mar 23, 2010)

Isn't today (Tuesday) the day of reckoning for the Princeton pitch & putt? Somebody may owe me some money !!! BTW, those single car trains aren't cheap; Austin's two car trains cost 6.6 million a trainset


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## AlanB (Mar 23, 2010)

Those dinky cars are probably like 40 years old now, so they cost far less and they certainly got their monies worth out of them.

And the Dinky has been running for close to a week now.


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## rrdude (Mar 23, 2010)

AlanB said:


> And the Dinky has been running for close to a week now.



"Ba-Da-Boom!"


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## had8ley (Mar 23, 2010)

Meet me in St. Louis and I'll have your 20 and some crow to go with it :lol:


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## jis (Mar 23, 2010)

had8ley said:


> Isn't today (Tuesday) the day of reckoning for the Princeton pitch & putt? Somebody may owe me some money !!! BTW, those single car trains aren't cheap; Austin's two car trains cost 6.6 million a trainset


We are talking a fully depreciated Arrow III car for which the only cost is what it takes to keep it in running order. Kind of crazy to compare that with the purchase price of a brand spanking new DLRT. So yes these single car trains are incredibly cheap when compared to the Austin DLRTs.


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## had8ley (Mar 24, 2010)

jis said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't today (Tuesday) the day of reckoning for the Princeton pitch & putt? Somebody may owe me some money !!! BTW, those single car trains aren't cheap; Austin's two car trains cost 6.6 million a trainset
> ...


No not really; what do you think a new Viewliner diner is going to going to cost to replace the existing Heritage fleet? There will be a day when the fully depreciated car will require a fully capitalized new one.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 24, 2010)

had8ley said:


> jis said:
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> > had8ley said:
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Ah, but not any time soon. The only issue is, NJT likes buying new equipment, and does so too often.


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## jis (Mar 24, 2010)

had8ley said:


> No not really; what do you think a new Viewliner diner is going to going to cost to replace the existing Heritage fleet? There will be a day when the fully depreciated car will require a fully capitalized new one.


That day is at least 5 years away. Such a car will cost something like 4-5 million when one is needed. But it is quite unlikely that a single car will be purchased for such. When the Arrow IV order happens it will be for a couple of hundred cars, so the cost of the dinky will be noise in that. Comparing NJTransit's capital budget issues with Austin's little system's is comparing apples and oranges.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 28, 2010)

jis said:


> is comparing apples and oranges.


let's see their both round. their both edible,you can make apple juice and orange juice with them,They both grow on trees.


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## Ryan (Mar 28, 2010)

I'd like to see the orange juice you get from an apple tree!


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