# interior pictures of Slumbercoach rooms



## amtrakmichigan (Jan 4, 2007)

I have seen many pictures of the exterior of Slumbercoaches. However I have personelly never set foot into a Slumbercoach. I have always been currious how the rooms were set up so that the windows were staggered. Do any of you have pictures of the interiors of Slumbercoaches or know of any links that you may be able to post? Please don't make an effort to post exterior shots, since I have seen many of these.


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## Anthony (Jan 4, 2007)

Bill Haithcoat once sent an interior photo he took - I think it's on another computer which I don't have here with me...


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jan 5, 2007)

Will try to help---I am not particualrly skilled at describing things.....am not completely sure where the photo is that Anthony mentioned---it might be on a member's webside, maybe Viewliner's.

The staggered windows match the 16 single rooms. The single rooms themselves are staggered with the windows. One room is sort of crammed about half way back on top of the room below it---God, do I REALLY not know how to explain things.I hope somebody will come to my rescue. I know what I am talking about, but putting it into intelligible words.....The entrance to every other single rooom,alternating is a few inches off the ground.

The double rooms are just normal shaped rooms, normal windows. normal access from the aisle floor (but cheap in design and comfort, cheap in price)

I searched google for illustrations of the inside myself and found nothing good---also searched "duplex roomette"==--that is a pre-Amtrak sleeper room-- standard sleeper--, much nicer than a slumbercoach but the same staggered pattern. SOME of the sleepers on The Canadian contain what were formerly known as duplex roomettes. If you actually take time to read some of the copy, the (words) on these these google sites either for slumbercoaches or for duplex roomettes it might explain it far better than I, even without picturing it.

I will try to find something that can be posted in a few days.

I remember this: when lying in the bed on one of the " floor level" rooms, you had to be careful not to hit your head against the back end of the room above you when you got out of bed.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jan 9, 2007)

Looks like it is going to be a few weeks before I can provide some interior shots.

Meanwhile, here is some random info, just in case you don't already know:

One, slumbercoaches were kind of rare. There were never very many of them.

They were not invented until about 1956, I think slumbercoaches ran for the first time on the Denver Zephyr from CHI to Denver. The year 1956 was kind of late to still be building passenger cars. The downward slide in railroad business was already beginning.

Trains that did have them usually had just one of them, in addition to several coaches and several sleepers. Few trains had any more than one slumbercoach. It is possible that they were "too little, too late"..

Keep in mind also: some railroads took existing sleepers, both heavy weight and streamlined, and re-made them into various kinds of "sleeper coaches", " budget sleepers", "thrift -T Sleepers", etc various kinds of names. In some cases such cars were not rebuilt with staggered windows. It was sort of like taking a regular car and "dressing it down". Such details vary from train to train and railroad to railroad.

Of course any slumbercoach which Amtrak inherited was a lightweight streamlined car, none of the rebult heavyweights.


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## JAChooChoo (Jan 9, 2007)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Will try to help---I am not particualrly skilled at describing things.....am not completely sure where the photo is that Anthony mentioned---it might be on a member's webside, maybe Viewliner's.
> The staggered windows match the 16 single rooms. The single rooms themselves are staggered with the windows. One room is sort of crammed about half way back on top of the room below it---God, do I REALLY not know how to explain things.I hope somebody will come to my rescue. I know what I am talking about, but putting it into intelligible words.....The entrance to every other single rooom,alternating is a few inches off the ground.
> 
> The double rooms are just normal shaped rooms, normal windows. normal access from the aisle floor (but cheap in design and comfort, cheap in price)


*I'll second Bill on the idea of trying to paint a totally intelligible word picture.*

*And there is a picture of a lower on page 41 of Harry Stegmier's **Baltimore & Ohio Passenger Service, 1945-1971 Vol 2-Route of the Capitol Limited*

*The rooms were molded pink plastic assemblies. *

*The doubles were essentially similar to a Viewliner roomette with the sink and toilet. *

* *

*The duplex singles [which all faced forward] which were equipped with sink and toilet - were cramped. As I recall the beds folded down in two 24 inch wide halves. Each half had a thin mattress pad - then a full length thin mattress pad, sheet, blanket and pillow were rolled into the cavity where your feet would reside.*

*In the lowers, the seatback folded down to make the head part of the bed, in the uppers I think the bed was at the level of the seat back.*


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## AmtrakWPK (Jan 10, 2007)

Wikipedia has an exterior picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumbercoach as does the TCRM (Tennessee Central Railway Museum) at http://www.tcry.org/equipment/repose.htm. TCRM apparently owns a Slumbercoach, the Silver Repose. They also have an email photo group, at http://www.egroups.com/group/tennesseecentral and it might be that if you got in touch with them that someone there might be willing to take some e-pix and send them to you. I would also suggest that you ask them to add some info to the Wikipedia Slumbercoach page, since they are uniquely qualified to do that, as they apparently possess one of those cars.


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## jphjaxfl (Jan 10, 2007)

Amtrak ran Slumbercoaches on the Empire Builder in the 1970s. Silver Repose was one of several that I rode when I was in the Air Force and living in Grand Forks, ND. Amtrak offered a 25% military discount on coach railfares and that included Slumbercoaches, but could not be used in first class sleepers. The cost of a slumbercoach ticket from Grand Forks to Chicago was only $15.00 more than coach. Amtrak also had slumbercoaches from New York to Miami that were inherited from Seaboard Coastline. SCL called them Budgetroom Sleepers. I believe they were former B&O 14 roomette 4 double bedroom cars. I think "nofrills" slumber coach type sleepers are something Amtrak should consider when new rolling stock is being planned. They are great for college students and younger folks who don't have the budget for first class.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jan 10, 2007)

I always said this about slumbercoaches---it was broom closet space----but broom closet prices!!! The prices made the cramped space more than worth it.

One of my travel secrets for a person traveling alone was this: ride in a double slumbercoach room. That is not that uncomfortable, one person in a room meant for two, and the prices still ridiculously low. The prices were always closer to coach price than to sleeper yet the space so much more comparable to sleeper.

They had one for several years on the Crescent. It just went NYC to ATL, not enough of them to go all the way to NOL.


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## MrFSS (Jan 10, 2007)

I don't know if this helps, but this is a picture I took a couple of years ago on *The Canadian*. The room was very small and it was the only one, as I passed through the train, that had a door/curtain open so you could see inside. But, as you can see, it is cramped. The bed makes up over the commode seat and when you are prone, your feet stick back in the area on the right. Above that is the upper room and that person's feet are over yours on the other side of the ceiling area. Don't know if that makes sense or not.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jan 10, 2007)

MrFSS said:


> I don't know if this helps, but this is a picture I took a couple of years ago on *The Canadian*. The room was very small and it was the only one, as I passed through the train, that had a door/curtain open so you could see inside. But, as you can see, it is cramped. The bed makes up over the commode seat and when you are prone, your feet stick back in the area on the right. Above that is the upper room and that person's feet are over yours on the other side of the ceiling area. Don't know if that makes sense or not.



I believe what you have taken a picture of is a duplex roomette. Kind of similar to a slumbercoach especially as to the staggered window effect. . A slumbercoach is even more spartan and even more cramped, but a duplex roomette is quite similar, something which I think I mentioned on an earlier post. The Canadian today does not have slumbercoaches but it does have eduples roomettes, so I think that is what it is.


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## MrFSS (Jan 10, 2007)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I believe what you have taken a picture of is a duplex roomette. Kind of similar to a slumbercoach especially as to the staggered window effect. . A slumbercoach is even more spartan and even more cramped, but a duplex roomette is quite similar, something which I think I mentioned on an earlier post. The Canadian today does not have slumbercoaches but it does have eduples roomettes, so I think that is what it is.


Thanks, Bill - I didn't know for sure. I knew it had the staggered windows as seen from the outside. It did look cramped to me.


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## Rafi (Jan 10, 2007)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if this helps, but this is a picture I took a couple of years ago on *The Canadian*. The room was very small and it was the only one, as I passed through the train, that had a door/curtain open so you could see inside. But, as you can see, it is cramped. The bed makes up over the commode seat and when you are prone, your feet stick back in the area on the right. Above that is the upper room and that person's feet are over yours on the other side of the ceiling area. Don't know if that makes sense or not.
> ...


Did either of them come with a bottle of olive oil, so as to complete the "life as a sardine" immersion experience? <grin>

-Rafi


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## MrFSS (Jan 10, 2007)

Rafi said:


> Did either of them come with a bottle of olive oil, so as to complete the "life as a sardine" immersion experience? <grin>
> -Rafi


My wife and I had the two person bedroom on that trip and I felt cramped in it. Not anywhere as nice as the deluxe bedroom Amtrak has. We spent all our waking time, when we weren't in the diner, either in the dome, in the lower lounge part of the dome car, or in one of the empty sections (that become upper and lowers at night). The section area had comfortable seats and you could see out both side very well. No one in our car had reserved on for this trip so they were always empty and available.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jan 10, 2007)

MrFSS said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > I believe what you have taken a picture of is a duplex roomette. Kind of similar to a slumbercoach especially as to the staggered window effect. . A slumbercoach is even more spartan and even more cramped, but a duplex roomette is quite similar, something which I think I mentioned on an earlier post. The Canadian today does not have slumbercoaches but it does have eduples roomettes, so I think that is what it is.
> ...



Just for the heck of the historical record, when the Canadian was put in service, about 1955, it did have some heavyweight sleepers (though otherwise very much a lightweight streamlined train) painted silver to look like stainless steel and they were budget sleepers of some sort---can't think of the name. Something like "touralex" . No staggered windows, as I recall.

The competing route across Canada also had some version of low cost sleepers put aboard its otherwise lightweight streamlined lead train, the Super Continental . But none of them were true slumbercoaches-- which were always lightweight cars.

I have lost track of when the "budget sleepers" (whatever they were called) exited Canada.

The duplex roomette, which you have shot, was kind of rare. I remember them as being largely on the pre-Amtrak Empire Builder, the North Coast Limited, trains like that.


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## JAChooChoo (Jan 10, 2007)

jphjaxfl said:


> ......... Amtrak also had slumbercoaches from New York to Miami that were inherited from Seaboard Coastline. SCL called them Budgetroom Sleepers. I believe they were former B&O 14 roomette 4 double bedroom cars............


*Those were ex-B&O 16 Duplex Roomette-4 Double Bedroom "Bird" series sleepers.*

*When the B&O dropped their genuine **Slumbercoaches** from the **National Limited** they were replaced for a while by three 16-4's as **SlumberRoom Coaches**. The B&O's other 16-4's were still running as First Class sleepers! In fact, since the B&O had no spare **Slumbercoaches**, if one was out of service on either the **National Limited** or **Capitol Limited**, the B&O would substitute a regular 10-6 and scatter other **Slumbercoach** passengers into empty First Class rooms. Once I actually occupied a regular Double Bedroom that way.*

* *

*PS: the original Slumbercoaches were operated by the Pullman Company*

* *

*PPS: In a standard Duplex Roomette, if you look closely, the bed in the lower slid out on a tray. In the uppers, they folded from the wall just like a standard roomette.*


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## gswager (Jan 10, 2007)

From what I see that there's a slide to pull the bed out. What's the sleeping position- along the rail (front to rear) or from side to side?


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## JAChooChoo (Jan 10, 2007)

gswager said:


> From what I see that there's a slide to pull the bed out. What's the sleeping position- along the rail (front to rear) or from side to side?


*Parallel to the wall, head at the seat back, feet under the mirror.*


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## Anthony (Jan 14, 2007)

What are these duplex roomettes called on VIA's booking site?


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## JAChooChoo (Jan 14, 2007)

Anthony said:


> What are these duplex roomettes called on VIA's booking site?


*Single Bedrooms. A Duplex Roomette has always been considered as equivalent to a standard roomette and priced the same. If you look at the **Chateau** layout on the VIA website, you can see the step for the upper.*

http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/factsheets/en_acco.pdf


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## Anthony (Jan 14, 2007)

Interesting - so the Chateau cars have duplex, while the Manor cars have the traditional roomettes? I've done the latter on VIA, but wasn't aware of the duplex, so I may have to work one into future travel plans


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## Amtrak Kid (Jan 17, 2007)

heres some interior shots from an Amtrak heritage slumbercoach.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258385

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258386

Corey


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## Anthony (Jan 17, 2007)

Amtrak Kid said:


> heres some interior shots from an Amtrak heritage slumbercoach.
> http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258385
> 
> http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258386
> ...



Cool! First ones I've seen like that.


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## Amtrak Kid (Jan 18, 2007)

Hey anthony, id love to see your shots, im working on a 2050-2056 slumbercoach for trainz.

Corey


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## amtrakmichigan (Feb 9, 2007)

Sorry I didn't get back with you guys earlier since I am the one who started the thread. Thanks a million for to those who posted the interior pictures of the slumbercoaches. That was exactly the type of pictures I was trying to locate.


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## david mac (Sep 21, 2010)

JAChooChoo said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > Will try to help---I am not particualrly skilled at describing things.....am not completely sure where the photo is that Anthony mentioned---it might be on a member's webside, maybe Viewliner's.
> ...


The problem is so many rail photographers seem to forget trains have interiors as well as exteriors. I don't know if railfans just didn't ride the trains they photographed or just failed to take pictures once aboard.

It is a constant disappointment with nearly every railroad book. Plenty of locomotives zooming by - too few candid

shots onboard those trains.


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## AlanB (Sep 21, 2010)

******* Warning *************

This is a 3 year-old topic.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 22, 2010)

Anthony said:


> Interesting - so the Chateau cars have duplex, while the Manor cars have the traditional roomettes? I've done the latter on VIA, but wasn't aware of the duplex, so I may have to work one into future travel plans


Yes, that is absolutely correct.


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## terry cripe (Sep 22, 2010)

Slumbercoaches were also used on Amtrak's Broadway Limited. We used to ride them from Trenton to Ft Wayne. They were a bargain compared to roomettes, especially because you didn't lose the use of the commode when the bed was folded down. Although I am 6' 1" I never felt that cramped.

Terry


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 22, 2010)

AlanB said:


> This is a 3 year-old topic.


Unless the thread predates Amtrak I'd be willing to let it slide. 

Personally I think bringing slumbercoaches back would be a great idea for new rolling stock. However, I would suggest we avoid any pink interiors. Bleh!


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## Jersey Jeff (Sep 23, 2010)

After looking at the photos, I believe that I rode in a Slumbercoach on the Montrealer from NYP to Montreal in 1995.


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## Pastor Dave (Sep 23, 2010)

I realize this is an old thread - but I used Slumbercoach several times on the LSL and these pics bring back good memories. I always seemed to have the "lower level" where my feet would end up under the head of the next room.


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## Bill Brings back memories. (Sep 23, 2010)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I always said this about slumbercoaches---it was broom closet space----but broom closet prices!!! The prices made the cramped space more than worth it.
> 
> One of my travel secrets for a person traveling alone was this: ride in a double slumbercoach room. That is not that uncomfortable, one person in a room meant for two, and the prices still ridiculously low. The prices were always closer to coach price than to sleeper yet the space so much more comparable to sleeper.
> 
> They had one for several years on the Crescent. It just went NYC to ATL, not enough of them to go all the way to NOL.


Bill Brings back memories! That NYP -ATL slumber coach was my first ever ride in a sleeping car which I rode until after my first promotion which allowed me to move up to a roomette !

This might help:

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258385

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=258386

Tim


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## dlagrua (Sep 23, 2010)

I have some pictures I took at the Illinois Railroad Museum and will post them when I get home. The intrinsic characteristic differential between the slumber coach rooms and todays sleepers is that the rooms were staggered one high and one low and the lower bedroom had a bed that when opened "tunneled" under the upper bedroom. In other words your head and torso were exposed while your legs were in the "tunnel" During the day there was a single seat and a toilet right by it. The staggered room arrangement allowed the largest quantity of sleepers on a rail car.


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## spacecadet (Sep 24, 2010)

terry cripe said:


> Slumbercoaches were also used on Amtrak's Broadway Limited. We used to ride them from Trenton to Ft Wayne. They were a bargain compared to roomettes, especially because you didn't lose the use of the commode when the bed was folded down. Although I am 6' 1" I never felt that cramped.
> 
> Terry


Amtrak used to run a lot of old New York Central equipment on both the LSL and Broadway Limited, and I believe the majority of their slumbercoaches were ex-NYC. (Edit: woops, apparently Amtrak owned all the slumbercoaches ever built! There were only 18 of them.) I rode them on both of those trains, and it was interesting to think that I might be riding in a car that ran on that same route (in the LSL's case, anyway) in NYC garb, possibly even on the famed 20th Century Limited, albeit past that train's prime. This was actually one of the things I loved about early Amtrak, thinking about the history of all of their equipment. Their trains were like rolling museums that were still fully functional.

Anyway I'm 6'4 and have been since I was 12, and while I was young when I rode the slumbercoaches and don't remember it all *that* well, I was already at that height and I don't remember ever feeling cramped either. I'm sure I couldn't fully stretch out (I think the beds were under 6') but it was still a pretty nice way to travel for only like $20 more than coach over the full run of the route. I was very disappointed when these cars were discontinued because it meant I'd have to travel coach most of the time; upgrading to a roomette was usually too expensive.

Most people who rode the slumbercoaches were making that same choice; it wasn't slumbercoach vs. roomette, it was slumbercoach vs. coach. If you thought about it like that, the slumbercoach was a very nice alternative and was insanely cheap.

btw, this pdf has some interesting photos and interior diagrams: http://www.srmduluth.org/Exhibits/SlumberCoaches.pdf


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## Bierboy (Sep 24, 2010)

We rode slumbercoaches on the Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited in the early 60s Chicago to Seattle and back. Loved 'em...

BTW, great post OBS Chief....loved reading that document and checking out the photos....


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## had8ley (Sep 24, 2010)

The slumbercoach was the RR's last shot at attracting pax off the planes and highways. I remember when the NYC rolled one into GCT. They even put out the 20th Century's red carpet for all to view "the latest and the greatest". This was probably around 1957 or 8.For their age I'm surprised more haven't lasted but then again they were an economy car and may have been built accordingly.


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