# Metra NICTD Consolidation



## brianpmcdonnell17 (May 5, 2016)

Is there any way that NICTD could eventually become a Metra Line? I would think having one railroad as opposed to two would make operations easier. It would also be nice if NICTD was part of the Metra weekend pass, I would use it much more if that was the case.


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## Metra Electric Rider (May 5, 2016)

Very very very unlikely for a lot of reasons. Beyond the obvious of their both being state agencies of the respective states, the South Shore still handles freight while Metra never has (to my knowledge) plus the SS has a somewhat different setup, for lack of a better term, as a regional service to South Bend. That might change a bit if their Valpo/Munster services ever happen, but it would take a lot of political wrangling in Indy and Springfield to make a merger happen.


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## Eric S (May 5, 2016)

No need to push for or ask for a merger - just need constituents to push for integrated fares (of some sort or another)


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## MikefromCrete (May 5, 2016)

The NICTD is a creature of the state of Indiana, Metra is a creature of the state of Illinois. They have different purposes. If NICTD wanted to offer a weekend pass, it could. If it wanted, it could cooperate with Metra and offer a joint pass. Doubt if that will happen.

By the way, NICTD does not operate freight service. Freight service is run by a separate company, SouthShore Freight, which contracts with NICTD for the use of its tracks. Freight locomotives and yards are owned by SouthShore Freight.


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## Palmetto (May 6, 2016)

Create an Illiana Transit Authority and just about anything is possible.


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## Metra Electric Rider (May 6, 2016)

Lake and Porter counties might opt into something like that.


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## Palmetto (May 6, 2016)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Lake and Porter counties might opt into something like that.


Or follow the model of the MTA in New York, perhaps? Chicago's got its RTA as an umbrella organization.


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## Metra Electric Rider (May 6, 2016)

Despite Lake County being full of Chicago ex-pats (and Porter filling up) and many commuters to the loop, especially right along the lake, Indiana and Illinois probably wouldn't play nice with something like that - the rest of Indiana looks askance at NW Indiana as being somewhat foreign (I mean, people with vich and ski at the ends of their surnames!!!) and not really Hoosiers.


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## Bob Dylan (May 6, 2016)

Not all Hoosiers are Rednecks and Hicks! They voted for Bernie!!


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## MikefromCrete (May 6, 2016)

NICTD would gain nothing from becoming part of the Northeast Illinois RTA. The last thing any Hoosier wants is to be connected with the "corrupt" Illinois political scene. Indiana has erected huge billboards throughout the Chicago area boasting that Indiana has a "balanced budget" and urging Illinois businesses (and residents) to relocate across the line.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (May 6, 2016)

If it doesnt make sense for them to merge I think at least becoming part of the pass would be a good idea. Being in Chicago it is hard to justify spending $26 to go to South Bend when you can go anywhere on Metra for $8.


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## neroden (Jun 2, 2016)

It'll happen just as soon as the state borders are redrawn to make sense. Maybe in 100 years.


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## jis (Jun 2, 2016)

Palmetto said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Lake and Porter counties might opt into something like that.
> ...


What New York Model? New York area effectively has three completely separate organization which seldom talk to each other - MTA, NJT and PANYNJ, that run rail transit systems in the area. And within MTA, LIRR and MTA are at loggerheads with each other almost as often as they cooperate. This bit has been improving a bit of late though. Specifically when crossing state boundaries across the Hudson, there is nothing exemplary about the New York situation for anyone to emulate or follow. Use it just as an example of how not to operate.


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## Eric S (Jun 2, 2016)

Frankly, Chicago's RTA and New York's MTA aren't all that different - an umbrella organization (RTA/MTA) that has multiple divisions within it (RTA - CTA/Metra/Pace; MTA - NYCT/LIRR/MNR, etc) that may or may not cooperate with each other. And neither umbrella organization is particularly good about operating services across the primary state line in their regions (RTA - IL/IN; MTA - NY/NJ), but do operate some services across the secondary state line in their regions (RTA - IL/WI; MTA - NY/CT).

Any thoughts what transit agencies operate bi-state or multi-state services fairly well (in the US)? For all its problems, WMATA (DC/MD/VA) comes to mind. Perhaps Bi-State/Metro in St. Louis (MO/IL) as well.


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## Palmetto (Jun 2, 2016)

Boston's MBTA operates into Rhode Island. Some would also like it to go to Nashua and Plaistow NH.


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## CCC1007 (Jun 2, 2016)

neroden said:


> It'll happen just as soon as the state borders are redrawn to make sense. Maybe in 100 years.


Could you please show me a map of what you think the redrawn states would look like?
Just curious as to what they would look like compared to today...


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 3, 2016)

Will Metro North consolidate with NJ Transit?


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## jis (Jun 3, 2016)

No


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## neroden (Jun 5, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> > It'll happen just as soon as the state borders are redrawn to make sense. Maybe in 100 years.
> ...


Basically, fold the suburbs into the same state as their respective cities. It's easy enough to move NW Indiana into Illinois.

Where it gets complicated is the state borders which run along the Mississippi, Ohio, and Missouri Rivers, which routinely split metropolitan areas in half. You start needing *radical* changes in the state borders...


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## Palmetto (Jun 5, 2016)

Well, there IS an East Chicago, but it's in Indiana still. To get it into Illinois, I think you'd have take Hammond and Whiting and perhaps Calumet City with you! :mellow:


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 5, 2016)

This is an excellent idea but due to turf wars will Never happen! 

Also there's situations like Michigan City which is also in Indiana, East St.Louis which is in Illinois,Portland,OR/Vancouver, and all the towns along the Mexico and Canada Borders divided by an imaginary line! ! 

My favorite scheme is to trade Alaska for British Columbia and Alberta, Win,Win for both Countries!

Texas has the right to divide itself into up to Seven States per the agreement for joining the US, and there are the various movements to make States out of our Territories the District of Columbia, the Virgin Islands,Puerto Rico,American Samoa and the Mariannas.


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## jis (Jun 5, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> My favorite scheme is to trade Alaska for British Columbia and Alberta, Win,Win for both Countries!


That can appear to be an attractive proposition only from Texas  . I suspect that both the Canadians and Alaskans will disagree. 

Of course it will be a very long time before another state is created in or added to the US.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jun 6, 2016)

Indiana would have a fit about losing their shoreline - remember, the plat of the states originally had the Michigan-Indiana much further south with Indiana getting no Lake Michigan Shoreline at all.

(not to nitpick too much, but Cal City is most definitely already in Illinois)


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## Palmetto (Jun 6, 2016)

Ya think I'd know about Cal City, having lived in Blue Island for 20 years.  As far as Indiana shoreline goes, the only thing they'd lose is the oil refineries in Whiting. They can keep Gary to Michiana Shores. Plenty of shoreline still left!


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jun 6, 2016)

And the Casino's.... Off topic, but originally, I guess it was US Steel primarily, wanted to locate Gary up towards Waukegan/Zion and the North Shore fought them and forced them to build the plants and town of Gary in Indiana.

I guess that'd be OK, they'd keep Burns Harbor which has the more modern steel mills (if you can wrangle a visit to the former Bethlehem Steel, now Mittal, do it, it's extremely impressive and interesting).


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## Eric S (Jun 6, 2016)

But it wouldn't be "Indiana" losing access to Lake Michigan or "Illinois" gaining more Lake Michigan shoreline, the idea (far-fetched as it may be) is that states would be completely redrawn without regard to current state lines or even the existence of current states. It's not so much adjusting existing states to better fit some suburbs/exurbs/satellite cities with the major city, but rather starting from scratch with a blank map of the US.


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## Palmetto (Jun 8, 2016)

Yes, we're just dickering here on the topic.


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## neroden (Jun 18, 2016)

The biggest example I know of such major reorganizations is Revolutionary France (which threw away the existing boundaries and created "departments" and "arrondisements" from scratch).

Margaret Thatcher's reorganization of all the municipal borders in England and Wales was pretty comprehensive.

East Germany completely redrew the borders of the constituent states. West Germany didn't, which accounts for the much goofier borders in West Germany.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jun 20, 2016)

Shoot, they even tried to throw away the calendar and time keeping too during the French revolution! Lots of countries have readjusted internal boundaries or borders, but not in a federal system which is semi-sovereign states.


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## fairviewroad (Jun 20, 2016)

Speaking of the South Shore Line, here's an article published this week that describes the line's history in detail:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-bicentennial-south-shore-st-0619-20160617-story.html


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jun 21, 2016)

I love how the article has the teaser about NICTD expansion to Munster but treats it like just an additional station.


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