# Op-ed proposes to close La Guardia



## CHamilton (May 9, 2015)

Don’t Rehab La Guardia Airport. Close It.



> By avoiding the costly replacement of outmoded terminals at La Guardia and by creating a new express rail link and upgrading terminals at Kennedy, the increased economic activity could more than make up for the lost jobs (not to mention the jobs that would be created by redeveloping the La Guardia site).
> 
> There are precedents for replacing airports close to the center city with modern, more outlying airports. Hong Kong and Denver are two examples; Berlin will soon follow suit.
> 
> New York’s importance to America’s economy demands a first world vision to shutter this third world airport.


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## xyzzy (May 9, 2015)

I like the idea.


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## jis (May 9, 2015)

It won't happen. Just like almost every other idea of George has not happened 

Here is something that I posted addressing some of the misconceptions on which the opinion is based and some issues that need to be addressed before some of those misconceptions are resolved:

First of all FAA ceilings are there for reasons of safety, not because they just like putting ceilings. You cannot just lift them and stuff more planes into Kennedy or Newark. There really is not enough space or runway capacity in those two airports to pick up all of La Guardia's current traffic.

Yes, if we could remove all the Regional Jets then bigger planes could carry more passengers in there, but the Regional jets serve a purpose and until that is addressed they are staying put and not disappearing. Though it is true that the average size of RJs is being increased as we speak from about 50 sets per to about 75 seats per.

Oddly enough, there is a lot of RJ traffic that runs up and down the NEC, even Newark to Philly for example, mainly providing connection through hubs to long distance flights. Unfortunately the rail infrastructure is unable to substitute for them due to lack of facilities.

One big problem with Amtrak connectivity in Newark which causes the code shares not to work as well as they could, is lack of checked baggage. In the current situation someone arriving from Hong Kong and trying to get to Stamford for example, does have a choice between Amtrak and the blue shuttle van. In case of Amtrak he cannot check his baggage through. He has to lug it on the Air Train to the station and then lug it aboard Amtrak and then lug it off at Stamford and get it to whatever means he uses to get to his final destination. The alternative is to lug it once to the Blue Shuttle Van at Newark and deal with it again at the final destination. Which one would any reasonable person choose?

A similar issue arises for said person if he was going to Philly. He can either check his bags through to Philly on a puddle jumper connection at Newark, or deal with lugging his luggage around by Amtrak.

Until a suitable seamless means for providing connectivity including reasonable handling of baggage is found I don't think code share on Amtrak will be a huge success as replacement for Regional Jets.

Bottom line is until the ground transportation system improves sufficiently it is not easy to get rid of all the RJ flights and even absent the RJ flights, there is not enough capacity at JFK and EWR without considerable additional investment to accommodate all the displaced traffic from la Guardia should it close.

So La Guardia is not going to close any time soon, no matter how much some might wish or dream.


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## Anderson (May 10, 2015)

Jis,

Good point about the baggage situation. I have to wonder what the effect would be if Amtrak ordered a batch of half-coach half-bags for the NEC, kept checked baggage to certain stations therein (e.g. the main ones plus Newark Airport and BWI), but limited checked baggage allowances more on the NEC?

Moving back to the LGA situation, even if the traffic _could_ be absorbed by the other airports I think a proposal to close the airport would be highly unpopular. This isn't to say there aren't places to stuff some traffic (Islip comes to mind), but even allowing for that (and the long hauls into the city) you still face the fact that New York has a ton of air traffic that is hard to displace because a lot is (A) trans-Atlantic, (B) trans-continental, or © feeding the first two.


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## PRR 60 (May 10, 2015)

The only true codeshare operated by Amtrak included through checked baggage. That was in the late 1980's with Midway Airlines codesharing at PHL airport with Amtrak Atlantic City service. Checked baggage was placed at the end of a coach. Midway had a counter at ACY where baggage could be checked or picked up.


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## Guest (May 12, 2015)

jis said:


> Bottom line is until the ground transportation system improves sufficiently it is not easy to get rid of all the RJ flights and even absent the RJ flights, there is not enough capacity at JFK and EWR without considerable additional investment to accommodate all the displaced traffic from la Guardia should it close.


Please correct me if I am wrong, but is it not true that RJs are popular with the airlines largely because of nationally mandated transportation policy? Federal regulations enforce the fact that landing fees are per passenger rather than per landing. So there is zero financial incentive for the airlines to rationally utilize scarce resources like landing slots at the NY airports, since they pay a tiny fraction of the fees to land a small RJ instead of an AB380, even they (almost) the same amount of the resources of the airport. A "simple" fix would be to change the landing fee formula (PFC) to one that provides incentives for using larger planes over smaller ones.

But again, I am the opposite of an expert on this subject and would love to learn the true facts.

Guest


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## Northeastern292 (May 12, 2015)

George is probably one of the sharper transit planners out there, but this is simply a non-starter. However, I'd like to see Stewart Airport (in Newburgh, the mid-Hudson Valley of NY) expanded and NY area residents using airports in Philly, Hartford and even Dulles, which should have (on top of WMATA Silver Line service) Amtrak service. Extend the NEC to Dulles. That would definitely help things. Also, IAD being on the NEC would like EWR and thus two United Airlines hubs.


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## jis (May 12, 2015)

Good dreams  And meanwhile we can;t even get two frckin' tunnels built in 20 years.


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