# The Need for Speed: Europe's Trains Beat Planes



## MrFSS (Oct 24, 2009)

With the advent of high-speed trains, rail travel in Europe has become so popular that some intercity flight routes are being cancelled.

Why would you fly from London to Paris, for example, and tackle Heathrow and Charles de Gaulle airport check ins plus security when you can catch a high-speed train that lands you right in the centre of town?

Now about 90 per cent of people travel by Eurostar between these two cities.

And there's no longer any flights on the Paris-Brussels route. Many now also go by train between London and Brussels.

High-speed trains are continually being introduced to new routes.

Full Story *Here*.


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## DET63 (Oct 24, 2009)

Europe's Trains Take On Planes: a forum, similar to this, at airliners.net discussing HSR vs. air travel in Europe. The particular page linked is from a couple of years ago, so the information may be dated.


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## acelafan (Oct 24, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> With the advent of high-speed trains, rail travel in Europe has become so popular that some intercity flight routes are being cancelled.
> Why would you fly from London to Paris, for example, and tackle Heathrow and Charles de Gaulle airport check ins plus security when you can catch a high-speed train that lands you right in the centre of town?
> 
> Now about 90 per cent of people travel by Eurostar between these two cities.
> ...


Great article, but now I'm depresssed! I don't know if the US will ever get serious about rail (high speed or otherwise). Maybe when gasoline gets to $5+ per gallon. Beautiful electric trains.


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## birdy (Oct 25, 2009)

acelafan said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > With the advent of high-speed trains, rail travel in Europe has become so popular that some intercity flight routes are being cancelled.
> ...


 Just keep plugging away at it. The misinformation campaigns of the "don't every spend any money on anything" is gradually giving away to considerable general public support. Too many people have ridden HSR to be fooled by the anti-crowd.


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## George Harris (Oct 26, 2009)

If we can ever get ONE, just ONE high speed line built in this country between cities where train time is in the range of one-half driving speed for the road warrior types and also has an city center to city center time of around 2h45m or less, the floodgates will open.

California high speed, San Fran to LA in 2h 42m, current projected time will do it if we can somehow shut donw the NIMBY'ism.


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## acelafan (Oct 27, 2009)

DET63 said:


> Europe's Trains Take On Planes: a forum, similar to this, at airliners.net discussing HSR vs. air travel in Europe. The particular page linked is from a couple of years ago, so the information may be dated.


Here is another good article on high speed rail around the world. Others leave U.S. in the dust on high-speed rail

"It came as no surprise that the United States is far behind Japan or Germany or France in high-speed rail. We've known for years that visitors from these highly developed industrial nations have been laughing behind our backs at our woefully antiquated rail system.

But it came as a shock to be confronted with the reality of how far behind we are in high-speed intercity rail compared with such countries as China, Turkey, South Korea and Brazil. Even Iran is planning a line from Tehran to Qom that will reach 200 mph - a speed that will make Amtrak's Acela (maximum 135 mph) look as if it were being pulled by Thomas the Tank Engine. At least we still have bigger bombs."

...


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## George Harris (Oct 27, 2009)

acelafan said:


> But it came as a shock to be confronted with the reality of how far behind we are in high-speed intercity rail compared with such countries as China, Turkey, South Korea and Brazil. Even Iran is planning a line from Tehran to Qom that will reach 200 mph - a speed that will make Amtrak's Acela (maximum 135 mph) look as if it were being pulled by Thomas the Tank Engine. At least we still have bigger bombs."


For those being planned I will say the same as I do about some of the plans that have been around in the US so long they are approaching social security age:

Call me when they are ready to start construction.

Planning is cheap, and a lot of of the plans in some of these countries are no more than nationalistic posturing.


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## DET63 (Oct 27, 2009)

George Harris said:


> acelafan said:
> 
> 
> > But it came as a shock to be confronted with the reality of how far behind we are in high-speed intercity rail compared with such countries as China, Turkey, South Korea and Brazil. Even Iran is planning a line from Tehran to Qom that will reach 200 mph - a speed that will make Amtrak's Acela (maximum 135 mph) look as if it were being pulled by Thomas the Tank Engine. At least we still have bigger bombs."
> ...


China and South Korea have HSR up and running. Turkey has three lines under construction. The Brazilian line is expected to be operational by 2014.


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## George Harris (Oct 28, 2009)

DET63 said:


> China and South Korea have HSR up and running. Turkey has three lines under construction. The Brazilian line is expected to be operational by 2014.


I know about all these. In fact even know some of the people involved in both China and South Korea, and seen the South Korean line during the testing phase. A lot of the others are either pipe dreams, or if they actually do occur are the product of megalomaina rather than real transportation need.


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## DET63 (Oct 29, 2009)

It will be interesting to see if Iran builds a line between Tehran and the holy city of Qom, or if it decides to spend its resources instead building atomic bombs or other weapons.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 5, 2009)

Knowing the Iranians like I do (I have several close Iranian friends) they will sit around making it look like they are working on Atomic weapons while spending money such a rail line. Most terroristic posturing is just that. There are a few wackos out there, but its like agreeing to anything political here. More people object to inaction then action. So you make it look like you are acting while doing nothing.


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## Neil_M (Nov 5, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Knowing the Iranians like I do (I have several close Iranian friends) they will sit around making it look like they are working on Atomic weapons while spending money such a rail line.


I don't know what's more shocking, the fact you can write off Iran's desire to have nuclear weapons because you know someone from that country or the fact you claim to have several friends....


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## George Harris (Nov 5, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Knowing the Iranians like I do (I have several close Iranian friends) they will sit around making it look like they are working on Atomic weapons while spending money such a rail line.
> ...


Good shot, Neil. :lol: :lol:

The GML may be taking a shot at me since I said,



> In fact even know some of the people involved in both China and South Korea, and seen the South Korean line during the testing phase.


 so he has to say he knows people in the places he is talking about. 
Don't know about his, but my knowing people that work on these systems is almost unavoidable since I spent a long time in Taiwan, with short periods of work in a couple othere places in Asia, and the contingent of people that work on this sort of stuff is a relatively small group, and are (by necessity) fairly mobile.


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## Shanghai (Nov 15, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> With the advent of high-speed trains, rail travel in Europe has become so popular that some intercity flight routes are being cancelled.
> Why would you fly from London to Paris, for example, and tackle Heathrow and Charles de Gaulle airport check ins plus security when you can catch a high-speed train that lands you right in the centre of town?
> 
> Now about 90 per cent of people travel by Eurostar between these two cities.
> ...


I was transferred from Paris to Amsterdam but I didn't want to take my daughter out of school mid-year, so I traveled from Amsterdam to Paris and return

nearly every weekend for eight months. I took the TGV train which took about the same amount of time and was much more convenient and comfortable than going on

KLM!! In Europe, one can take their dog on the train. During this time frame, the train was nover more than 15 minutes off schedule.


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