# Cancelations / mid-Atlantic storm



## acelafan (Feb 4, 2010)

More heavy snow Friday into Saturday for much of the mid Atlantic region and some cancellations are already announced. Blizzard warnings have been issued for southern NJ and parts of DE. Might make for some great photography opportunities if the trains are running, and one dares to venture around a bit!

February 4, 2010

5:45 p.m. ET

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Due to impending winter weather conditions in Virginia and the Carolinas, most Amtrak service south from Washington, DC has been canceled for Friday, February 5.

 

All southbound Northeast Regional trains, with the exception of Train 67, are canceled between Washington and Richmond and Newport News with no alternate transportation. Northeast Regional Train 176 is canceled between Lynchburg and Washington and Train 171 is canceled from Washington to Lynchburg.

 

Palmetto, Trains 89 and 90, are canceled in their entirety between New York and Savannah.

 

Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 will operate only between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 

Cardinal Train 50 departing Chicago eastbound on February 4 will terminate in Huntington, W.V. As a result, Train 51, the westbound Cardinal, for February 5 will originate in Huntington and operate through to Chicago.

 

Silver Service trains between New York and Miami will operate normally.


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## nferr (Feb 4, 2010)

Still running the Silver Meteor and Star. I've taken the Meteor down from NY in a heavy snowstorm. Was a great experience, had a slumbercoach room if I remember right.


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## rrdude (Feb 4, 2010)

So what happened to rail's "so called" weather advantage?

Seems like Amtrak is just pain wimping out, in ADVANCE.

Just like the public schools do now, on the mere "THREAT" of snow.......

Damn Bill H., This country is full of pu**ies these days. No backbone or spine at all.

Everyone is afraid to "make a mistake".......................... Or WORSE yet, be labeled as one who does not subscribe to "political correctness" ....OMG how did I get on this rant......Sorry guys.


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## amtrakwolverine (Feb 4, 2010)

any diehard railfan will be out filming. just like the US mail neither rain or sleet or hail or snow will stop a railfan from getting their footage.


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## rrdude (Feb 4, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> any diehard railfan will be out filming. just like the US mail neither rain or sleet or hail or snow will stop a railfan from getting there footage.



*Their*


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## rtabern (Feb 4, 2010)

Aw, that stinks.

I did a ride from Galesburg, IL to Chicago, IL on the Southwest Chief #4 today (2/4) and met this nice older gentleman in the lounge car who told me some tales of his days in WWII. He was going to Washington, DC to visit his son and decided to take the Cardinal instead of the Capitol Limited tonight because #50 was more scenic.

Now, it sounds like he's going to get stuck in WV.

I feel bad for him.  I hope they caught this before #50 departed and stuck him on #30 instead.


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## rtabern (Feb 4, 2010)

I sorta wonder why they are cancelling the Cardinal in WV even before the storm starts... I mean is there just not enough equipment to keep the tracks clear?? Or... what is going on here??? I agree... it does almost sounds like Amtrak is wimping out a little... what if the storm turns out not being as bad as predicted?


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## acelafan (Feb 4, 2010)

rtabern said:


> I sorta wonder why they are cancelling the Cardinal in WV even before the storm starts... I mean is there just not enough equipment to keep the tracks clear?? Or... what is going on here??? I agree... it does almost sounds like Amtrak is wimping out a little... what if the storm turns out not being as bad as predicted?


I was a little surprised the trains were canceled, but maybe Amtrak got really beat up in the big December storm and it's better to cancel than fight the weather.

Is it common for Amtrak to cancel trains like this during the winter? Could the host railroads have anything to do with these decisions?


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## GG-1 (Feb 4, 2010)

rtabern said:


> I sorta wonder why they are cancelling the Cardinal in WV even before the storm starts... I mean is there just not enough equipment to keep the tracks clear?? Or... what is going on here??? I agree... it does almost sounds like Amtrak is wimping out a little... what if the storm turns out not being as bad as predicted?


Aloha

An hour or so ago I spoke with my sister and they are expecting this to be he worst storm this year, Friday Saturday They expect 18 inches. that is like an inch an hour, that is hard to keep up with.


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## rrdude (Feb 4, 2010)

And what if if it IS a bad storm? Push through. Geeze, the railroads did this for the better part of 100 years, with very little forecasting, or should I type "scare-casting".............

So what? It snows. You go slow. You swap trains mid-route. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.


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## Ryan (Feb 4, 2010)

I think that they're trying to avoid the mess they got in for the December storm. Since this is likely to pass that one, and possible set the all time record here in DC, I think that discretion is the better part of valor this time around.


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## rrdude (Feb 4, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I think that they're trying to avoid the mess they got in for the December storm. Since this is likely to pass that one, and possible set the all time record here in DC, I think that discretion is the better part of valor this time around.


No, no, no, no, no, just run the damn trains......................


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 4, 2010)

The december storms took a lot of P42s out of service, a couple possibly permanently. Amtrak is starting to come into a power crunch this winter. I think they're afraid of losing more power. I don't blame them. I saw one of the wrecked engines sitting in Chicago yard. Egad.


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## railiner (Feb 5, 2010)

For many years, railroads extolled the virtues of their being the 'all-weather' mode of transportation. They proudly exclaimed their superiority over highway and airway modes of travel for dependability.

What happened?

Is it the drastic cuts in maintenance of way forces that kept the lines open back then as compared to now?

Is it modern high tech equipment is too prone to failure in severe operating conditions?

Or is it (I suspect) the Company lawyers paranoia over litigation that may ensue (pun intended) if trains get stranded enroute?


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## oldtimer (Feb 5, 2010)

railiner said:


> For many years, railroads extolled the virtues of their being the 'all-weather' mode of transportation. They proudly exclaimed their superiority over highway and airway modes of travel for dependability.What happened?
> 
> Is it the drastic cuts in maintenance of way forces that kept the lines open back then as compared to now?
> 
> ...


I am surprised that no one has bruoght up the possibility that the railroads or railroad (CSX) may have caused the cancelations.


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## railiner (Feb 5, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I think that they're trying to avoid the mess they got in for the December storm. Since this is likely to pass that one, and possible set the all time record here in DC, I think that discretion is the better part of valor this time around.


You are probably right on this one.

The airlines have learned the hard way that it is better to cancel the bulk or whole of their schedules to avoid digging themselves into a mess that would take much longer to recover from then just cancelling until its over.


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## railiner (Feb 5, 2010)

oldtimer2 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > For many years, railroads extolled the virtues of their being the 'all-weather' mode of transportation. They proudly exclaimed their superiority over highway and airway modes of travel for dependability.What happened?
> ...


Acelafan raised that possibility.

So I still ask my questions, but direct it towards the host railroads if that is the case.


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## AlanB (Feb 5, 2010)

Personally I suspect that CSX may have played a part in the decision, since all the cancellations run on CSX tracks.

However, it wouldn't surprise me either if Amtrak went along willingly too. After all, it's not uncommon for Amtrak to cut back on the NEC schedule too when things get tough.

Quite possibly part of it is also a matter of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If they don't run the trains, we're here criticizing. But if they do run them and something goes wrong, like the Crescent sitting outside DC for several hours last December in the storm, not only are we here criticizing them you've also got a bunch of angry passengers. Angry passengers who somehow can't figure out that had they been flying, they'd still be sitting in an airport on their suitcase. Instead, they had heat, food, water, a comfortable seat, and still got where they needed to be even if they were delayed several hours. Last snowstorm saw flyers delayed 2 to 3 days.


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## Rafi (Feb 5, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I think that they're trying to avoid the mess they got in for the December storm. Since this is likely to pass that one, and possible set the all time record here in DC, I think that discretion is the better part of valor this time around.


That's exactly what happened. The December storm left some scars.

Rafi


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## Ryan (Feb 5, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I think that they're trying to avoid the mess they got in for the December storm. Since this is likely to pass that one, and possible set the all time record here in DC, I think that discretion is the better part of valor this time around.
> ...


Sometimes, you've just got to respect the weather - they don't run on the sheer force of willpower alone, man. I'll admit that I'm a little personally invested in this one, I've got a ticket for BWI-KIN early Sunday morning that I'd really like to be able to use.


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## Rafi (Feb 5, 2010)

Ryan said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


We'll have to see what happens Sunday, but all indications are that service recovery will be in full force at that point. The problems Amtrak had in the December storm were rooted in the Virginia service for the most part--specifically with CSX on the RF&P. Once trains were getting stranded in VA, equipment supplies got choked on the corridor and dominos started falling. After that lesson, the brunt of the cancellations this time around are centered around the Virginia regionals and day trains (79/80, 89/90, etc) and a general thinning out of the regular schedule to afford some flexibility on crew availability, equipment deadheads for placement, etc. Amtrak's doing everything they can, to be sure. But in cases like this, sometimes it just comes down to a choice: either trudge out into the snow with your summer clothes on and pretend there's nothing going on, or you bundle up and take your time shoveling the driveway before you get in the car.

Rafi


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## acelafan (Feb 5, 2010)

Rafi said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > rrdude said:
> ...


I can understand that - no need to cause a disaster on the whole corridor with stranded trains. Here's an update with several cancellations for Saturday, including the Auto Train.

The following service has been canceled for Saturday, February 6.

 

The following Northeast Regional trains are canceled in their entirety: Train 82, 152, 156, 159, 165, 199. The following southbound Northeast Regional Trains will terminate in Washington, DC: Train 66, 67, 88, 99, 147, 194, and 195.

 

Palmetto, Trains 89 and 90, are canceled in their entirety.

 

Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 will operate only between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 

Auto Train 52 and 53 are canceled in their entirety.


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## Ryan (Feb 5, 2010)

Bravo to MARC for shuffling service today to get all of us commuters home.



> Attention MARC Passengers--
> Full service will operate on all three lines on Friday, February 5. In anticipation of the large snowstorm forecast for tomorrow, MARC has made the following changes to service for Friday, February 5 ONLY:
> 
> Penn Line: No additional trains will operate, but starting with train 520 (12:20pm departure from Washington), the larger rush-hour trainsets will be used on all trains.
> ...


I'm headed for the train station!


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## Shanghai (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm scheduled to be on the Cardinal from Indianapolis to New York tomorrow night. If it is cancelled, when and how are passengers

notified and how does Amtrak reschedule the trip? What happens to the passengers who were terminated in Huntington, WV? How

do they get to their more eastbound destinations? Can one call Amtrak to find out the status of their train? I have looked at

amtrak.com and there is no status for my train. It's a blizzard in Indianapolis now.


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## Ryan (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd try to get a train going the other way from Indy to Chicago and then get on the LSL to NYP - that should keep you north of the worst of things.


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## acelafan (Feb 5, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Bravo to MARC for shuffling service today to get all of us commuters home.
> 
> 
> > Attention MARC Passengers--
> ...


Glad to hear MARC helped you guys out. Whenever I'm in DC for business I try to take a run on the Penn line up to Aberdeen and grab a NE Regional back. I really like MARC's bi-level cars, too.


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## Ryan (Feb 5, 2010)

acelafan said:


> Glad to hear MARC helped you guys out. Whenever I'm in DC for business I try to take a run on the Penn line up to Aberdeen and grab a NE Regional back. I really like MARC's bi-level cars, too.


As it turned out, the 12:20 (which is the last train to Perryville before the 4:24) got SLAMMED and was overloaded well before departure time, so the cut off loading. Left a lot of PISSED commuters behind, but within about 15 minutes they took a quick count of who was headed north of Baltimore, told them all that they could take the 1:20 to Baltimore and by the time they got there the alternate arrangements (I assume a bus) would be ready. Despite the fact that MARC ran full length consists, and flexed rapidly to meet the overwhelming demand, I'm sure that a flood of complaints is going to sour things up.


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## acelafan (Feb 5, 2010)

Ryan said:


> acelafan said:
> 
> 
> > Glad to hear MARC helped you guys out. Whenever I'm in DC for business I try to take a run on the Penn line up to Aberdeen and grab a NE Regional back. I really like MARC's bi-level cars, too.
> ...


OUCH. Ya, I can imagine it's a tall order trying to evacuate half the DC commuters up the Penn line! Another "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario.


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## Rafi (Feb 5, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> I'm scheduled to be on the Cardinal from Indianapolis to New York tomorrow night. If it is cancelled, when and how are passengersnotified and how does Amtrak reschedule the trip? What happens to the passengers who were terminated in Huntington, WV? How
> 
> do they get to their more eastbound destinations? Can one call Amtrak to find out the status of their train? I have looked at
> 
> amtrak.com and there is no status for my train. It's a blizzard in Indianapolis now.


Amtrak won't make a decision on tomorrow's Cardinal until possibly as late as early afternoon. The decision will largely depend on the condition of the tracks between Huntington and Charlottesville. If the Cardinal does get annulled, it may run as far as Indianapolis, or possibly Huntington. Amtrak may busstitute passengers headed east of Huntington to Clifton Forge or Staunton or Charlottesville to continue the journey on another train set, or they may just call you ahead of time (you provided a good phone number, right?) and bus you to meet the Lake Shore Limited or Capitol Limited. Either way, they'll do their best to take care of you.

Rafi


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## acelafan (Feb 6, 2010)

Significant disruptions in the northeast with the snowstorm continue...wild winter!

February 6, 2010

9:30 a.m.

 

WASHINGTON, DC – Due to severe winter weather conditions, which has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the mid-Atlantic region, Amtrak has canceled several trains for February 6.

 

The following operating plan is in effect for Saturday, February 6:

 

 

 * Carolinian trains 79 and 80 will operate only between Raleigh and Charlotte with no alternate transportation between New York and Raleigh. 

 * Palmetto trains 89 and 90 are canceled in their entirety between New York and Savannah.

 

 * Northbound Northeast Regionals:

 • Train 82 is canceled in its entirety between Richmond and Boston

 • Train 88 is canceled Richmond to Washington

 • Train 194 is canceled Newport News to Washington

 • Train 66 is canceled Newport News to Washington

 • Train 156 is canceled Lynchburg to New York.

 • Train 152 is canceled Washington to New York.

 • Train 160 is canceled Washington to New York but will operate between New York and Boston.

 

 * Southbound Northeast Regionals:

 • Train 195 is canceled Washington to Richmond with no alternate transportation.

 • Train 67 is canceled Washington to Newport News with no alternate transportation.

 • Train 99 is canceled Washington to Newport News.

 • Train 147 is canceled Washington to Lynchburg.

 • Train 165 is canceled Boston to Washington.

 • Train 199 is canceled New York to Washington

 • Train 159 is canceled New York to Washington

 • Train 121 is canceled New York to Washington

 

 

 * Acela Express Service: Acela Express trains 2207 and 2251 between New York and Washington and train 2220 between Washington and New York are canceled.

 * Silver Service trains 97 and 98, operating between New York and Miami are canceled with no alternate transportation. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Savannah only.

 * Crescent trains 19 and 20, which operates between New York and New Orleans, are canceled with no alternate transportation.

 * The Auto Train is canceled in its entirety between Lorton, VA and Sanford, FL.

 * Capitol Limited trains 29 and 30, operating between Washington and Chicago is canceled with no alternate transportation.

 

 All other Amtrak service, including the Piedmont (Raleigh - Charlotte) is expected to operate normally.


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## Shanghai (Feb 6, 2010)

So far, the Cardinal (#50) from Chicago to New York is still planning to operate.

All sleeper accommodations are sold out, but I'm in a roomette.

If it gets cancelled, I'll stay and try the Lake Shore Limited tomorrow.


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## Rafi (Feb 6, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> So far, the Cardinal (#50) from Chicago to New York is still planning to operate.All sleeper accommodations are sold out, but I'm in a roomette.
> 
> If it gets cancelled, I'll stay and try the Lake Shore Limited tomorrow.


Shanghai,

at this point I will be shocked if the eastbound Cardinal makes it past Huntington tonIght/tomorrow. CSX has expressed concern with the line's trees and powerlines falling onto the tracks, not to mention the 2 feet of snow. That Amtrak has also cancled all other service on the Charlottesville line today makes me fear for the fate of 50(6). Who knows though. We may get a pleasant surprise. Lord knows the scenery will be just spectacular.

Rafi


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 6, 2010)

What kind of snow removal equipment to the railroads have in this region? I would imagine not too many Rotaries, and with this much snow, I would think only a Rotary would be effective. Too much for Spreaders?


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## Rafi (Feb 6, 2010)

Sure enough, trains 50(6) and 51(7) have been cancelled east of Huntington. 50(6)'s train set will turn at Huntington to represent 51(7).

Rafi


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## Ryan (Feb 6, 2010)

Rafi, what are your thoughts on if 162 is going to run north from WAS tomorrow morning? I'm headed to Kingston and would really like to make it.


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## Shanghai (Feb 6, 2010)

Rafi said:


> Sure enough, trains 50(6) and 51(7) have been cancelled east of Huntington. 50(6)'s train set will turn at Huntington to represent 51(7).
> Rafi


Thanks Rafi. I called Amtrak and was told that the eastbound Cardinal would operate to Hudson and that anyone going beyond

this point would not be permitted on the train. I said I was going to New York Penn and that was before Hudson (NY). I questioned

the Amtrak service person if she was looking at the proper train because I didn't think the Cardinal went to Hudson. I asked her

to be certain she didn't mean Huntington, WV and she then said that was what she meant.

Anyhow, she rebooked me on the Hoosier State from Indianapolis to Chicago and the Lake Shore Limited to New York. I was able

to get a roomette so other than getting home one day late, all appears to be well. I was able to extend my hotel for another night.

I'll find something to do tomorrow in Chicago. Does anyone remember the Lou's something restaurant in Chicago??


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## MrFSS (Feb 6, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> Rafi said:
> 
> 
> > Sure enough, trains 50(6) and 51(7) have been cancelled east of Huntington. 50(6)'s train set will turn at Huntington to represent 51(7).
> ...


*Lou Mitchell's*


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## Shanghai (Feb 6, 2010)

Thank you. I am going to go there for a late breakfast tomorrow!!


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 6, 2010)

Why are they getting all pansyish cancelling trains for the little snow we got?


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## Ryan (Feb 6, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Why are they getting all pansyish cancelling trains for the little snow we got?


Because we got a metric ton's worth more down here - bigger than the December storm, likely somewhere int he top 5 ever.
My train was cancelled, I was able to call and get on the next one.


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## Rafi (Feb 6, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Why are they getting all pansyish cancelling trains for the little snow we got?
> ...


Actually, as far as the Baltimore Metro area is concerned, it was at least the #2 of all time. We're still waiting on the BWI "official" total to see if it was more than 28.2 inches (which was the #1 of all time--2003 President's Day Storm when the B&O Roundhouse Roof collapsed). Last count at noon was 26.5 inches at BWI. Elkridge, which is not far from BWI, reported in when it was all over with a whopping 39 inches!

Also of note, this is by far the most inches of snow to ever fall in one season, thanks to the December storm and now this one. The old record was absolutely shattered by about 1 PM.

Rafi


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 6, 2010)

Still, that's less than three feet of snow. That shouldn't be beyond surmounting.


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## wayman (Feb 6, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Still, that's less than three feet of snow. That shouldn't be beyond surmounting.


A few of the things Amtrak can't predict, any of which could seriously hose them:

Giant drifts.

Severe winds.

Downed trees.

Frozen switches.

Wimpy P42s.

Power outages.

The whims of the host railroads who don't really care who gets stranded where.

The train that's stuck in Connellsville is lucky: there are local businesses able to supply them with food indefinitely, and there are probably even options for refueling if they need to. Connellsville may not be connected to Pittsburgh by highway for a while, but it's got its own resources. Imagine if the Capitol Limited were stranded twenty miles outside of Connellsville.


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## girly25 (Feb 7, 2010)

our crew is stuck in nol until tuesday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



acelafan said:


> Significant disruptions in the northeast with the snowstorm continue...wild winter!
> February 6, 2010
> 
> 9:30 a.m.
> ...


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## PRR 60 (Feb 7, 2010)

The latest update...



> Amtrak Service Adjustments Due to Severe Winter Weather
> February 7, 2010
> 
> 9:00 a.m. ET
> ...


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## girly25 (Feb 7, 2010)

it almost like a shut down of whole north east system. thats means when i leave nol on tuesday is going to be pack train!


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2010)

I live along the tracks south out of Alexandria Station and I haven't seen anything go by since Friday evening. No trains, no clearing equipment, nothing. Even during the December Storm there was the occasional train, after the frozen switch incident got cleared up anyway.


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## acelafan (Feb 7, 2010)

And here we go for Monday cancellations..._*and*_ on www.weather.gov there is a new winter storm watch for Tuesday/Wednesday with another possible large snowstorm in the mid-Atlantic!

February 7, 2010

3:15 p.m. ET

 

WASHINGTON, DC – Due to severe winter weather conditions, which has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the mid-Atlantic region, Amtrak has canceled several trains for February 7.

 

The following service has been canceled for Monday, February 8:

 

 * Northeast Regionals:

 • Trains 95, 93, 85, 67 will terminate in Washington.

 • Train 171 is canceled Washington to Lynchburg, VA

 • Trains 110, 176 and 184 are canceled.

 • Trains 84 and 86 are canceled Washington to Richmond

 • Trains 66 and 94 are canceled Newport News to Washington

 • Trains 151, 127, 193 are canceled New York to Washington

 * Carolinian trains 79 and 80 will operate only between Raleigh and Charlotte with no alternate transportation between New York and Raleigh.Palmetto trains 89 and 90 are canceled in their entirety between New York and Savannah.

 * Silver Service trains 97 and 98, operating between New York and Miami are canceled with no alternate transportation. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Savannah only.

 * Capitol Limited trains 29 and 30, operating between Washington and Chicago is canceled with no alternate transportation.

 * The Auto Train is canceled in its entirety between Lorton, VA and Sanford, FL.


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 7, 2010)

I hope Amtrak realizes what all these cancellations will do to their reputation for operating in lousy conditions.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 7, 2010)

In light of what happens when trains get stranded, I stand behind amtraks decision even if it messes up my trip on Thursday. The Capitol limited and the autotrain are both stranded. It will take even longer to get these services back on track.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 7, 2010)

A lot of these decisions have been made because they do not have a surplus of equipment. Back in the day when railroads had a surplus of equipment they could run extra trains and adjust to conditions.

When the city of San francisco got stranded back in the 1950's not much could be done then either.


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## MattW (Feb 8, 2010)

Well somehow the Crescent's equipment got to ATL. It was parked on the steel spur this morning next to the station. Since they cancelled 19 yesterday, I'm assuming that they deadheaded the 20 they had up to ATL since NS has it truncated there any ways?


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 8, 2010)

girly25 said:


> it almost like a shut down of whole north east system. thats means when i leave nol on tuesday is going to be pack train!



But would it be leaving NOL on Tuesday anyway? Not because of the storm but because of the completely unrelated repair work between Atlanta and NOL which has the midweek train canceled for a few weeks. Or is that over this week?


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## girly25 (Feb 8, 2010)

we deadhead last nite to alt. leaving tomorrow

19 crew today will turn their turn and ride the van to nol .

20 will run out of nol on wed................god willing. we will working tomorrow from alt to nyp



Bill Haithcoat said:


> girly25 said:
> 
> 
> > it almost like a shut down of whole north east system. thats means when i leave nol on tuesday is going to be pack train!
> ...


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## henryj (Feb 8, 2010)

Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


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## wayman (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Never in recorded history has Philadelphia received so much snow in a winter, as of this Wednesday. (We only need a few more inches to break the seasonal record, and we're supposed to get over a foot on top of what we've still got on the ground.)


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## AAARGH! (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Are you kidding? It's record breaking snow. It is a very dangerous situation and if canceling trains makes it safer, then so be it. There is no way the airlines are doing any better. I may be wrong, but all the DC area airports were still shut down today.

Have you experienced blizzards before?


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 8, 2010)

Given the severity of the blizzards, it's better to err on the side of caution, rather than have a whole bunch of trains stuck somewhere. CSX doesn't seem to be a able to keep its trains on track during a heavy, snow, so everybody take a deep breath and wait a day or two before traveling. After all, the snow will eventually melt.


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## Ryan (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Wrong on every level. I travelled from BWI to KIN yesterday on the NEC - while not a single bus or airplane left the area. It took me ober 45 minutes to make the usual 10 minute drive to the station because of the the poor conditions on the roads (and that was with a Chevy Suburban with 4 wheel drive and the knowledge to use it). I'm now on my way back to BWI on train 137, we just left NYP on time. DCA is still closed, and from what I understand BWI is operating one runway only.
And we're looking at another 10 inches of snow starting tomorrow afternoon. The only thing broken are your tired and broken rants against Amtrak.


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## afigg (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Eh? A quick and easy check of the status info on the Amtrak website shows that most trains were running on the NEC today between WAS and NYP. Many of them were getting in a little late, but they were running. It is the trains that run south of DC to Richmond and points beyond that were still canceled as of today. The RF&P line between DC and Richmond must be in bad shape.

I live in Northern Virginia and got 30" of snow at my house. What made this storm so bad is that much of the snowfall was heavy wet snow which has brought trees and power lines all over the place. It was no fun shoveling even my relatively short driveway and the front walkway, believe me. For much of the storm the rain-snow line was in the middle of Virginia which means they got a mix of freezing sleet and heavy snow that iced up once the cold front pushed in later on Saturday. Dulles, Reagan National, BWI airports were all closed on Saturday, Dulles and BWI were running limited operations on Sunday, and they all only resumed something approaching normal operations today. Getting to the airport via car for those who live down side streets or on rural roads that may not get plowed until Tuesday (if then) is another matter. People outside the area need to realize that this was a severe snow storm with heavy snowfall.


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## acelafan (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Actually the NEC has had cancellations but trains have still been running. Here is a positive article about some travelers who were to fly into Reagan National, but were shut out so they went to Newark instead. From there they took Amtrak into DC Sunday night.


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## henryj (Feb 8, 2010)

Ryan said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.
> ...


I don't know how old you are, but I have ridden trains for many many years and never has there been a complete shutdown like this. And I challenge you to find historically where there ever was one even when trains were steam powered. Railroads have always shouldered through no matter what the weather. Only Amtrak routinely shuts down routes and cancels trains for even the slightest reason. You can find individual examples of a single train stranded over the years but nothing like this. And I am not making continuous 'rants' against Amtrak. But this year is particularly pitiful.


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## Ryan (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> a complete shutdown like this.


You keep saying this, despite it being demonstrably false. I rode on the NEC yesterday. I'm on it right now. 
Acelafan, that article must be getting around, we're leaving Newark Airport right now, and the train got completely slammed - I don't think that there's a single seat left.


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## acelafan (Feb 8, 2010)

Ryan said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > a complete shutdown like this.
> ...


Ryan, that is great to hear! Lucky you for being able to travel on the NEC in the snow - I bet the scenery is surreal outside during the daylight hours.

There have been a few positive articles about Amtrak still trudging through on the Northeast Corridor despite the heavy snow. I know CSX had significant issues with derailments and likely frozen switches, etc, but Amtrak certainly can't help that....


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## henryj (Feb 8, 2010)

Ryan said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > a complete shutdown like this.
> ...


Then Ryan, I stand corrected as regards the NEC and I appologize. Actually I am glad to hear the NEC is working. That alone is encouraging.


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## Dental Wiz (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


From all that I heard, the storm that hit the Mid Atlantic states was one of the worst that was recorded in modern times. I think we need to give the railroads including CSX and Amtrak a break here. Trees and power lines were downed by the heavy snowfall and wind. In addition, this area is not prepared for snowfall in the area of 2-3 feet. The fact that Amtrak was able to resume service in such a short time was commendable. Trying to run trains through these conditions in this part of the country would have been unsafe, unethical and bordering on the insane. Stranding passengers in the middle of nowhere for days on end is not a way to run a railroad just to try to prove a point. The Seaboard, ACL and PRR I don't think ever faced these conditions in these areas based on weather stats. I love rails as much as anyone and trains can continue in many instances when autos and planes cannot. That said, we all have to appreciate the power that the earth's weather can dish out.

Stephen D Lipman, D.M.D.


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## Big Iron (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


In the steam era you didn't have stuck passengers calling CNN demanding "immediate compensation." I think Amtrak is not a tough as the railroads in the steam era because of the litigious nature of the citizenry today.


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## deimos (Feb 8, 2010)

Just a side note re: storm impacts to rail traffic. I live within ear shot of the "Camden Line" in Maryland, which of course CSX operates.....there was virtually no traffic on this line during the storm. There was some traffic during the day today, but overall traffic remains very limited. BWI operations seems to be picking up.


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## jis (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Man! You seem to have such deep knowledge about what was happening on the NEC sitting wherever you are! Whatever gives you the impression that NEC was shut down? Yes things were a bit difficult at its south end, but still Amtrak did run reasonable service given the circumstances. Part of the problem was that once people got to their destination they had nowhere to go since local roads took forever to clear.

Things were pretty much running in NJ, including the RiverLINE and Atlantic City Line in South Jersey, which ran throughout the storm, while SEPTA shut down its Regional Rail operation on the other side of the river.

Starting tomorrow DC and Baltimore will probably get another foot or two. This time Northern NJ and New York won't be spared. Philly might get another foot and Northern NJ and NY could get a foot to two feet through Wednesday night.

So how many planes and buses do you suppose made it into Washington DC airports and the city on Saturday, while Amtrak managed to get Regionals there at least once every two hours? There should be some basis behind the rants IMHO.


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## acelafan (Feb 8, 2010)

Still not out of the woods yet...several trains canceled for tomorrow and I bet the same will hold true for Wed/Thurs with more heavy snow in the forecast from Boston to DC. A bright spot - Crescent #19 will operate normally.

February 8, 2010

8:00 pm ET

 

WASHINGTON – The effects from this weekend’s severe winter weather conditions, resulting in downed trees and power lines on portions CSX freight railroad tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the Mid-Atlantic region, has caused the cancellation of several trains for February 9.

 

The following operating plan is in effect for Tuesday, February 9:

 

 * Acela Express trains 2103, 2109, 2153, 2117, 2121, 2165, 2119, 2173; 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2126 are canceled in their entirety; train 2150 is canceled Washington to New York.

 * Northbound Northeast Regionals:

 * Trains 110, 130, 184, 84, 186, 196 and 188 are canceled

 * * Trains 86, 94 and 66 will originate in Washington

 * Southbound Northeast Regionals:

 * Trains 151 181, 125, 85, 127, 193 and 187 are canceled

 * Trains 95, 93, and 67 will terminate in Washington

 * Carolinian trains 79 and 80 will operate only between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 * Palmetto trains 89 and 90 (New York and Savannah) are canceled in their entirety.

 * Silver Service trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Train 91 will operate between Raleigh and Miami only. Train 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only.

 * Auto Train trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, VA and Sanford, FL) are canceled.

 * Capitol Limited trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago) are canceled.

 * Cardinal train 50 will operate between Chicago and Huntington only.

 * Crescent train 19 will operate normally between New York and New Orleans.


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## MikeM (Feb 8, 2010)

henryj said:


> Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.


Oh, I don't think I'd be so quick to say airlines are so much better. I was supposed to travel to a meeting over the weekend in Washington DC, and flights started getting cancelled on Friday morning before the storm. Ground transportation for those who did make it into the city before the storm basically shut down Saturday, all Government offices were closed today, and supposedly most of the streets were impassible. I decided to stay home and finish some home projects, which in retrospect looks pretty smart right now. I think sometimes it's better to cancel trains and read a few articles about cancellations than have a media extravaganza discussing trains frozen in the ice, derailed, etc.


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## bigrxrblues (Feb 8, 2010)

I have a seat on the 67 from NYC to Newport News leaving early Friday morning. Anyone think that trip could happen, or should I start thinking of making alternate plans?


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## Dovecote (Feb 8, 2010)

afigg said:


> I live in Northern Virginia and got 30" of snow at my house. What made this storm so bad is that much of the snowfall was heavy wet snow which has brought trees and power lines all over the place. It was no fun shoveling even my relatively short driveway and the front walkway, believe me. For much of the storm the rain-snow line was in the middle of Virginia which means they got a mix of freezing sleet and heavy snow that iced up once the cold front pushed in later on Saturday. Dulles, Reagan National, BWI airports were all closed on Saturday, Dulles and BWI were running limited operations on Sunday, and they all only resumed something approaching normal operations today. Getting to the airport via car for those who live down side streets or on rural roads that may not get plowed until Tuesday (if then) is another matter. People outside the area need to realize that this was a severe snow storm with heavy snowfall.


I became a snowbird early in the year and happy to be spending the winter in South Georgia. My neighbors in Harpers Ferry reported 30 inches of snow as well and they are pretty much stranded in this hilly community. MARC service on the Brunswick Line was canceled today and will be operating on a "S" schedule on Tuesday. The Federal Government in DC will be closed again on Tuesday. Yes, this was a BAD snowstorm.


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## KayBee (Feb 8, 2010)

Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.

Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:

CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 8 Winter Weather and Derailment Update

CSX train and yard operations throughout the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic are being affected by the severe winter weather that the area has experienced over the last several days. Another storm system is moving into the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic later this week, bringing more snow and high winds to these areas. Trains are being held throughout the Northeast, including the Baltimore Division where only critical service is being provided due to the heavy accumulations of snow and unsafe conditions.

Customers with traffic moving throughout the Northern, Mid-Atlantic and Appalachian regions should expect delays of at least 24 to 48 hours.

Adding to the difficulty in the Northeast, a train derailment on Saturday morning near Cumberland, Md., has forced the reroute of trains around that area. We expect to have the tracks operational within the next 36 hours. Customers with traffic moving between the Midwest and the Mid-Atlantic states of Maryland and Pennsylvania are advised to expect additional delays throughout the week due to the congestion resulting from these re-routes and the adverse weather conditions.

CSX continues to monitor these situations and will provide further updates.

I personally have had significant issues with what is, to me, an unprecedented amount of snow, sleet and ice, especially for a usually benign state when it comes to winter weather.

Someone please make it stop! :angry:


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## Steve4031 (Feb 8, 2010)

KayBee said:


> Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:
> 
> CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 8 Winter Weather and Derailment Update
> 
> ...


Thank you for this update from CSX. I am hoping to go on 30 on 2/11 to Washington, D.C. From this it looks like the line will be open sometime on Wednesday. So if I see the Capitols running on Wednesday, then I have a good chance for Thursday.


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## AlanB (Feb 9, 2010)

Steve4031 said:


> KayBee said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:
> ...


Well they may have the derailment issues fixed by Wednesday. The snow issues however are another matter. If indeed forecasts hold and the DC area and western PA, and much of Virginia see another foot of snow on top of what's already on the ground, then all bets are off.

Not sure I'd bail yet, but your trip is definately looking dicey at the moment. Unfortunately.


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 9, 2010)

MikeM said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.
> ...


We're buckling down for some snow here in Chicago, a lot over the next two days, but not blizzard conditions. Southwest Airlines has already canceled all flights out of Midway from 10 a.m. today to 10 a.m. tomorrow. As far as I know, Amtrak will run its regular schedule. Snow is one thing,but the blizzard conditions faced by areas that don't usually get that much snow is another.


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## henryj (Feb 9, 2010)

wayman said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Never in recorded history before Amtrak, that is, has there been a rail shutdown of such magnitude. I mean, it looks like even the NEC isn't running and that is pure Amtrak. No one to blame there. It's pitiful. The airlines and buses are more reliable than Amtrak. It's a broken system.
> ...


Wayman, if your in Philadelphia, just curious. How has the light rail system done? How about the old Red Arrow lines to Media, Sharon Hill and Norristown? Are the suburban lines running? How about the trolley buses, the Frankford El? I have been to Philladelphia a few times and always enjoyed the variety there. Just wondering how they are coping.


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## henryj (Feb 9, 2010)

Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.


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## haolerider (Feb 9, 2010)

henryj said:


> Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.


See weather reports and forecast for today! <_<


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2010)

VRE has no service for today and the Auto Train is on the list, so I suspect that there are still problems getting things moving on the RF&P. As haolrider alluded to, it's likely to get worse before it gets better.


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## jis (Feb 9, 2010)

Ryan said:


> VRE has no service for today and the Auto Train is on the list, so I suspect that there are still problems getting things moving on the RF&P. As haolrider alluded to, it's likely to get worse before it gets better.


Some combination of snow and ice is supposed to start falling in the Richmond area by 1pm and head north towards Washington DC. That should bring some more trees down inevitably. So no wonder RF&P is not going to be carrying too much traffic today.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 9, 2010)

henryj said:


> Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.


I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.

When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.


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## Amtrak839 (Feb 9, 2010)

henryj said:


> Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.


The RF&P Subdivision is in very bad shape, and it's going to get worse later today.

Edit: Read on another forum that P098-05, P092-05, and P052-05 are all sitting stranded at RVR. Nothing is moving on the RF&P.


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## henryj (Feb 9, 2010)

Here is Amtrak's report for today(Please don't take this as an anti-Amtrak 'rant' as I am in Houston where it never snows and this whole thing is just fascinating to me). Wish I could see all this, but just for a visit, I don't want to live in it. Post some pics if you can. I saw some of Ryan's and they are really interesting. Lots of cancellations:

Amtrak to Offer Limited Acela Express and Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 9

February 8, 2010

10:00 pm ET

WASHINGTON – Amtrak will operate limited Acela Express and Northeast Regional service between New York and Washington on Tuesday, February 9, as the Northeast continues to recover from the effects from this weekend’s severe winter weather conditions.

The massive storm has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of CSX freight railroad tracks in Virginia, the Carolinas and across the Mid-Atlantic region, and has caused the cancelation of several trains for February 9.

The following trains are canceled for Tuesday, February 9:

Acela Express: Trains 2103, 2109, 2153, 2117, 2165, 2119, 2173, 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2126 are all canceled in their entirety between Boston and Washington. Train 2150 is canceled Washington to New York only.

Northbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 66 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 84 is canceled Richmond to New York

• Train 86 is canceled Richmond to Washington

• Train 94 is canceled Newport News to Washington

• Train 110 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 130 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 184 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 186 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 188 is canceled Washington to New York

• Train 196 is canceled Washington to New York

Southbound Northeast Regionals:

• Train 67 is canceled Washington to Newport News

• Trains 93 and 95 will terminate in Washington

• Train 151 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 181 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 193 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 187 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 125 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 127 is canceled New York to Washington

• Train 85 is canceled New York to Richmond|

Northeast Regional train 176 will operate Lynchburg to Washington and onto Boston and train 171 will operate through to Lynchburg.

Capitol Limited: Trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago) are canceled with no alternate transportation. Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.) are canceled in their entirety. Silver Service: Trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only. Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah) are canceled in their entirety. Carolinian: Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Raleigh and Charlotte only. Cardinal Service: (New York - Chicago) Train 50 is canceled between Huntington, WV, and New York. All other Amtrak services, including the Piedmont, trains 73 and 74 (Raleigh – Charlotte) and the Crescent, trains 19 and 20 (New York – Atlanta) are expected to operate normally.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## jis (Feb 9, 2010)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I wondered about that myself, and am glad the Crescent is at least operating. But actually the Crescent and the silvers do not approach Alexandria and DC the same way. I guess the weather is worse where the silvers are than where the Crescent is, in those specific parts.
> When you look at the map, one can see there is enough difference in the routes to make a difference.


Yup. As long as L'Enfant to AF interlocking is passable, Crescent can get onto NS trackage and then assuming NS is running OK it can get through to the south. All the problems on RF&P appear to be south of AF including stalled freights and such. There are also not that many trees to fall on the tracks between L'Enfant and AF. I wonder why trees keep falling on CSX and not so much on NS though


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## girly25 (Feb 9, 2010)

train 20 is making good time into nyp today!



Bill Haithcoat said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Still no silver service to Florida today. What seems to be the problem???????? I see the Crescent is now operating even though #19 is over three hours late.
> ...


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## haolerider (Feb 9, 2010)

girly25 said:


> train 20 is making good time into nyp today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


train 19 is showing 4+ hours late into ATL.


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## rayc (Feb 9, 2010)

i am taking the silver metor out of nyp to orl sat 2-13 . what is the best way check status of train schedule? right now i am getting my back plan into action.does anyone think that train will run


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## girly25 (Feb 9, 2010)

they just made it to atlanta. we taking their train and going back to nyp tonight . they going in van and heading to new orleans tonight. they got loong trip . i feel kinda bad for crew that left thurs on 89. it long 5 days !



haolerider said:


> girly25 said:
> 
> 
> > train 20 is making good time into nyp today!
> ...


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## bigrxrblues (Feb 9, 2010)

So are any trains running at all between DC and Richmond, or is everything canceled?


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2010)

Everything is cancelled - nothing is moving on the RF&P.


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## wayman (Feb 9, 2010)

henryj said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


SEPTA announced very early Saturday morning that all service would stop at 2pm Saturday except for the MFL and Broad St Line subway/els. This was announced very well, way in advance, to prevent folks from getting stranded -- don't take a train into the city thinking you'll be able to leave in the evening; don't go stand at a bus shelter at 2pm because nothing will come; etc. Vehicles could be stored in safe positions for Sunday morning service between the shutdown and the onset of the storm and crews and operators could all get safely home.

Overnight, the MFL and Broad St Line kept running as trains (they have been bustituted between midnight and 5am for years).

Sunday morning, first thing, everything was up and running again. The Red Arrow trolleys were only running hourly service, and the Norristown line may have done likewise, at least for Sunday morning, but I think by Sunday afternoon they were at full service.

All in all, SEPTA did a great job last weekend.


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## rrdude (Feb 9, 2010)

henryj said:


> Here is Amtrak's report for today(Please don't take this as an anti-Amtrak 'rant' as I am in Houston where it never snows and this whole thing is just fascinating to me). Wish I could see all this, but just for a visit, I don't want to live in it. Post some pics if you can. I saw some of Ryan's and they are really interesting. Lots of cancellations:
> Amtrak to Offer Limited Acela Express and Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 9
> 
> February 8, 2010
> ...


Well, I sure as Hell don't EVER want to see Amtrak advertising the "all-weather-mode" of transportation again. I *KNOW* they are at the mercy of the host railroads. But it just pisses me off that what they could do 40-50 years ago, now WON'T be done. Notice I didn't type "can't" I typed "won't".

Anyone who argues otherwise, is giving in to political correctness, and the law-suit happy lawyers, or should I say the "Afraid of a lawsuit" suits at the corporate transportation companies.

When NO OTHER mode of transportation is available, and the trains remain in the station, what good are the trains? NONE!

I don't care if you run 24 hours late, and "proceed with caution" to every block signal. Give the train crew a chain saw, or have a work gang deadhead on the train.

Embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing................

So WHAT if a train get's stuck along the line. I've been stuck in a derailment. I've been stuck BEcause of derailments ahead. And I've been stuck because of trees down.

"Better not to go at all.." HOG WASH. Suits have lost their backbone.

Unless you know the ROW *is* washed out, or the bridge *is* down, run the damn trains............


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## rrdude (Feb 9, 2010)

Dental Wiz said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.

BS, BS, BS...............


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## rrdude (Feb 9, 2010)

KayBee said:


> Amtrak's ability to run trains is totally dependent on the host railroad's ability to provide safe track to route them on.Here is an official statement regarding CSX Transportation's issues with the weather:
> 
> CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 8 Winter Weather and Derailment Update
> 
> ...


Yeah, and if you don't run trains during the storm, (helping keep the line clear) it gets EVEN harder to clear the line later........


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## AAARGH! (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Unless you know the ROW *is* washed out, or the bridge *is* down, run the damn trains............


I wonder if these storms had occurred back in the day, would the trains have run? I see these storms as being unprecedented. *There is a point at which you stop running trains.*

Cars used not to have seatbelts. Medical quackery went unchecked. We *learn* form the past. What might have passed as safe in the past we *now* know isn't at all. Am I saying that running trains in these storms is unsafe or that trains of the past were unsafe in these conditions? I don't have the experience to say. However, I do defer to those who are experts.

Whether we like it or not, this *is* a litigious society. If Amtrak runs trains that get stuck for 24 hours, they *will* get sued. It's too bad, but let's not hold that against Amtrak.

Embarassing? I think not. Prudent? Probably so. In the end, the _reasonable_ answer lies somewhere in between, but *much* closer to prudent than you would like or think.


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.
> BS, BS, BS...............


The railroads didn't have to push through this amount of snow, either. What part of "record snowfall" is unclear?



rrdude said:


> Yeah, and if you don't run trains during the storm, (helping keep the line clear) it gets EVEN harder to clear the line later........


Amtrak is running some trains on the NEC, just not all of them.


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## haolerider (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Dental Wiz said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...


More foolish comments. Get out on the road and tell this to the Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. employees who are out there in sub-zero temperatures cutting trees, repairing switches, clearing debris. I am sure they would love to hear how soft they are. They might even give you a chain saw and let your body do the work, rather than your mouth! No one likes to have trains cancelled - lost revenue for everyone whether they are passenger or freight. As far as your idea about chain saw crews on every train, how about adding a few cars with hoists and front loaders, in fact why not have a track clearing car run in front of every train? Have you ever participated in a conference call with a freight railroad and/or Amtrak to hear the concerns about speed of clearing and the need to get trains back on the road? If so, you should no better than to make your comments and if not, you are ill-prepared to give advise or criticize what you don't understand.


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## wayman (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Well, I sure as Hell don't EVER want to see Amtrak advertising the "all-weather-mode" of transportation again. I *KNOW* they are at the mercy of the host railroads. But it just pisses me off that what they could do 40-50 years ago, now WON'T be done. Notice I didn't type "can't" I typed "won't".


No railroad in the northern Virginia, DC, and mid-Atlantic area has _ever_ dealt with this weather situation. There is _no comparable situation_ 40-50 years ago.

Railroads in the northeast/New England; in the Midwest; in the northern plains; in the Rockies; etc, have dealt with this stuff. But not _here_. Have you ever seen photos of the Pennsylvania Railroad using a rotary snowplow? I doubt it -- I'm pretty sure they never owned one. (The LIRR did (#193), but they're further north/east from the area affected by these storms. Penn Central did (#60021), but I suspect that was xNYC as I know they had a few.)

Does Amtrak even own heavy snow removal equipment?... Given the only territory which it's their responsibility to plow (the NEC), they may not have much by way of multiple-feet-of-wet-snow equipment on hand.


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## jis (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.
> BS, BS, BS...............


Ummm, since you are making this claim, I can't resist asking for a specific example or two where in the mid-Atlantic states there was a snowstorm that dumped 2 feet of ice and snow and all the railroads kept running with no cancellations. Afterall, one should be able to back up ones rants with facts, no?

Now after you have come up with the examples, overlay on it the facts of today in the form of the litigious society that we live in and the regulatory environment in which we operate, and then let us know which of the risks are worth taking and which not. Afterall it is all about risk management anyway. It is not your toy train in the basement in which there are no material consequences of running them or not.


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## AAARGH! (Feb 9, 2010)

Ryan said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Umm, the railroads of 40-50 years ago "soldiered thru" Amtrak, CSX, NS, etc. corporate suits just don't want to take the risk theses days.
> ...


This is from a CNN article about last weeks' storm:



> In that blizzard, a record 32.4 inches of snow fell on Washington's Dulles International Airport over two days, breaking a January 7-8, 1996, record of 23.2 inches.


Last week's storm had almost *40%* more snow. As I said, this is unprecedented.


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## rrdude (Feb 9, 2010)

haolerider said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Dental Wiz said:
> ...


I've put my time in clearing brush, bridges, fallen trees, and frozen switches. I've helped re-rail cars and much more. I DO understand what I'm talking about. I think there ARE people, most I hope, at both the private RR's and at Amtrak that truly care about getting the "property" operating again.

But the old days will never return, so I've go to learn to live with it. And apparently keep my mouth shut. (or I might get sued)


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> I've put my time in clearing brush, bridges, fallen trees, and frozen switches. I've helped re-rail cars and much more. I DO understand what I'm talking about.


No. You don't. How many times did you do that in 2 to 3 feet of snow?


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## AAARGH! (Feb 9, 2010)

Ryan said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > I've put my time in clearing brush, bridges, fallen trees, and frozen switches. I've helped re-rail cars and much more. I DO understand what I'm talking about.
> ...


"No. You don't"?????? How do you know he hasn't done this in 2 ' - 3' of snow and thus _does_ know what he is talking about?

BUT, I am interested in his repsonse if he has.


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## Idon'tFly (Feb 9, 2010)

I have been watching the weather and the news very closely. I have a planned trip on #97/98 Silver Meteor, for this sunday. So far these post hold more information than any other news outlet. Keep the info flowing. My first trip better not end in irony; taking Amtrak was to free me from the burden of driving.

Thank You Ppl!!


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## AlanB (Feb 9, 2010)

One thing that I think many are failing to consider here, at least with regard to the cancellations on the NEC, is that Amtrak most likely doesn't have the passenger demands needed to run all of the trains even if they could run them all.

People in DC and the Baltimore areas aren't going anywhere. And people aren't traveling to those areas because for 3 days you've been unable to go anywhere. Even Philly is having it's share of problems, but at least by and large most of its transportation network was back up and running on Sunday. The DC Metro as of today still does not have full service running on the trains, much less the buses. Now we could argue about why DC can't run it's Metro with more than 8 inches of snow when Boston & New York, and for that matter even Philly manage to do it with 2 feet of snow or more.

But the fact remains that many people have cancelled travel plans to the affected areas and therefore Amtrak has no need to run full service. Except for when the snow was actualy falling, there is little need to waste money running empty trains.


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## rrdude (Feb 9, 2010)

AAARGH! said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > rrdude said:
> ...


Obviously not in 2 to 3 feet. I stand corrected.


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## Shanghai (Feb 9, 2010)

I feel lucky that I was able to return to NYP from CHI on the LSL yesterday!! I think the LSL is not running today.


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## AAARGH! (Feb 9, 2010)

rrdude said:


> AAARGH! said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Well then. As Rosanna Rosannadanna would say; "nevermind". :huh: :unsure:


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## MattW (Feb 9, 2010)

Anyone know where the Crescent's trainset is? Since it made it to Atlanta today I expected a Viewliner to greet me as I rolled under the steel spur on I-75 this afternoon, but it wasn't there.


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## haolerider (Feb 9, 2010)

MattW said:


> Anyone know where the Crescent's trainset is? Since it made it to Atlanta today I expected a Viewliner to greet me as I rolled under the steel spur on I-75 this afternoon, but it wasn't there.


It may have been on the wye, since it didn't get into ATL until after 1:00 pm. I don't think it went through to NOL, but I am not sure if today was the last day for the turn in ATL.


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## AlanB (Feb 9, 2010)

Shanghai said:


> I feel lucky that I was able to return to NYP from CHI on the LSL yesterday!! I think the LSL is not running today.


:unsure: :blink:

The westbound 49 departed NYP on time today. The eastbound is expected to arrive about 30 minutes early. The only uncertainty at the moment might be the eastbound out of Chicago, and it's way too early to know what that train's status is. It isn't scheduled to depart for another 4 and a half hours as of the time I'm writing this.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 9, 2010)

AlanB said:


> One thing that I think many are failing to consider here, at least with regard to the cancellations on the NEC, is that Amtrak most likely doesn't have the passenger demands needed to run all of the trains even if they could run them all.
> Now we could argue about why DC can't run it's Metro with more than 8 inches of snow when Boston & New York, and for that matter even Philly manage to do it with 2 feet of snow or more.


You are exactly correct Alan(as usual!)  When I lived and worked in DC (well sorta! :lol: )it was a given that DC didnt do snow and the Govt. shut down for "snow days" when a flake flew or even a forecast of flurries!  We always joked about the poor stiffs in Philly and NY and Bos who had to go to work when the weather was bad but really couldnt understand why the Metro shut down so often//early?

You put your finger on it really, there are lots more people who use/ride the trains around DC than back in the day but what's the point in running them when there is no-one to ride? Right on Alan!


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2010)

Here's another look at how unusual this snowfall is:







You'll note that Washington, Baltimore and Philly are all WAY over their "normal snowfall to date".


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## Joel N. Weber II (Feb 9, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Now we could argue about why DC can't run it's Metro with more than 8 inches of snow when Boston & New York, and for that matter even Philly manage to do it with 2 feet of snow or more.


Once every few years or so, one of the branches of the MBTA Green Line does shut down due to excessive snow in the way of the trains. But I can't think of a time when the MBTA Red Line has really been affected by snow, and the DC Metro is somewhat more similar to the MBTA Red Line than the MBTA Green Line.


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## AlanB (Feb 9, 2010)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Now we could argue about why DC can't run it's Metro with more than 8 inches of snow when Boston & New York, and for that matter even Philly manage to do it with 2 feet of snow or more.
> ...


Boston's Green Line is light rail; rail that runs in the city streets which is part of the problem.

DC's Metro is heavy rail, like the T's Red, Orange, and Blue lines.


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## jis (Feb 10, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > I feel lucky that I was able to return to NYP from CHI on the LSL yesterday!! I think the LSL is not running today.
> ...


Friend of mine whose flight from Chicago to Newark was canceled today managed to get on the LSL. According to him LSL is running today with 2 Baggage cars, 7 coaches, 2 cafe cars, 2 diners and 4 sleepers, powered by 2 P42s. The train is completely sold out. So now we know how Amtrak is trying to clear eastbound passengers out of Chicago absent the Capitol Ltd. Looks like maybe they are making good use of some cars that are not running on the canceled Silver Service trains.


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## Ryan (Feb 10, 2010)

Wow, that's gotta be a hell of a sight!


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 10, 2010)

jis said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Shanghai said:
> ...


WOW! Imagine the walk to the Diners, usually it's just the BOS section on the LSL, and the PDX section of the EB! Sounds like the old days with the long trains but don't think I'd want to be in a coach when it's this jammed! Guess this will continue till theother trains resume, imagine what the buckets are for this train!


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 10, 2010)

jis said:


> Friend of mine whose flight from Chicago to Newark was canceled today managed to get on the LSL. According to him LSL is running today with 2 Baggage cars, 7 coaches, 2 cafe cars, 2 diners and 4 sleepers, powered by 2 P42s. The train is completely sold out. So now we know how Amtrak is trying to clear eastbound passengers out of Chicago absent the Capitol Ltd. Looks like maybe they are making good use of some cars that are not running on the canceled Silver Service trains.


Ok, so you got an LSL running normal number of bags and cafes, 2 extra coaches, an extra sleeper, and an extra diner.

I'll bet you good money its P42-P42-Bag-Sleeper-Coach-Coach-Cafe (active)-Coach-Coach-Coach-Coach-Coach-Cafe (dead)-Diner-Sleeper-Sleeper-Sleeper-bag, and your friend is mistaken about the second diner. Which would mean what Amtrak did was swap a Silver Star/Crescent/Lake Shore NY section consist with a Silver Meteor consist.


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## bluecluee (Feb 10, 2010)

Any guesses as to when the Auto Train might run again? I was supposed to be heading North to home today. If they can't get it running by Friday I will likely have to make the long drive home.


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## jis (Feb 10, 2010)

NEC and Eastern Seaboard status on Wednesday the 10th:



> WASHINGTON – In light of continued severe winter weather in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, Amtrak has issued a number of service adjustments for Wednesday, October 10, 2010. Despite adverse weather conditons, the Northeast Corridor remains open. However, along this route and several others, Amtrak wiill be offering only limited services.
> The massive storm has resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of CSX freight railroad tracks south of Washington resulting in continued service cancellations in Virginia, and the Carolinas.
> 
> The following service adjustments have been made for Wednesday, February 10:
> ...


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## jis (Feb 10, 2010)

Noticed on the trainorders board:



> The eastbound Cardinal train 50 was crossing the Ohio River into Kentucky at 701am, about 3.5 hours late. Had an extra sleeper (two total) and the normal Diner Lite, 3 coaches, and one engine. Only heading to Huntington today, so the same consist will head back to Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago tonight and into Thursday am. Surprised to see the extra sleeper with the train truncated in Huntington.


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## acelafan (Feb 10, 2010)

What a winter! I wonder when will life return to normal....maybe late this weekend?

Here is the cancellation list as of 4PM this afternoon from Amtrak's website:

Amtrak will be operating a snow schedule for Thursday, February 11, the following service adjustments have been made. (Note: this is a preliminary list which may grow based on weather conditions):

 

 * Acela Express

 - Trains 2103, 2107, 2151, 2155, 2117, 2121, 2165, 2167, 2119, 2171, 2173, 2193,

 2190, 2150, 2100, 2154, 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2124 and 2126 are canceled

 - Trains 2153, 2168 and 2172 are canceled Boston to New York, but will operate New York to Washington

 * Northeast Regionals

 - Trains 151, 181, 125, 85, 127, 193, 187, 110, 130, 86, 84, 186, 196 and 188 are all canceled

 - Train 173 canceled Boston to New York, but will operate New York to Washington

 - Trains 67, 95, 93, 67, 94 and 66 are all canceled south of Washington

 

 All Northeast Regional service south of Washington to Richmond and Newport News is canceled.

 Northeast Regional train 176 will operate Lynchburg to Washington and onto Boston and train 171 will operate through to Lynchburg.

 * Keystone Service

 - Trains 605, 609, 647, 651, 649, 622, 619, 639, 600, 646, 650, 656 and 622 are canceled

 - Trains 641, 643 and 645 are canceled New York to Philadelphia

 - Trains 640, 642 and 644 are canceled Philadelphia to New York

 * Empire Service: Limited service is available between Niagara Falls, Albany and New York.

 

The following services are canceled in their entirety with no alternate transportation:

 

 * Capitol Limited: Trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago);

 * Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.);

 * Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah).

 

The following are offering service along a portion of their normal routes:

 

 * Silver Service: Trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only.

 * Carolinian: Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Raleigh and Charlotte only.

 * Cardinal Service: Trains 50 and 51 will operate between Huntington, WV, and Chicago only.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2010)

I am scheduled to take the auto train next week. Will the problems be solved by then or should I make alternate plans.

If the train is cancelled do I get my money back right away or do they give you a credit to be used for future trips.

Thanks


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## Ryan (Feb 10, 2010)

Early in the week? Maybe?

Late in the week? You should be OK.

If it is cancelled, you get your money back.

Edit:

Anyone doubting the epic nature of these storms:



> ...PRELIMINARY ALL-TIME SEASONAL SNOWFALL RECORDS SET AT THE THREE MAJOR CLIMATE SITES IN THE BALTIMORE-WASHINGTON AREA...
> AS OF 2 PM TODAY...WITH THE 9.8 INCH TWO-DAY SNOWFALL TOTAL MEASURED AT RONALD REAGAN WASHINGTON NATIONAL AIRPORT...THE SEASONAL SNOWFALL TOTAL IN WASHINGTON DC STANDS AT 54.9 INCHES. THIS WOULD BREAK THE PREVIOUS ALL-TIME SEASONAL SNOWFALL RECORD FOR WASHINGTON DC OF 54.4 INCHES SET IN THE WINTER OF 1898-99. OFFICIAL SNOWFALL RECORDS FOR WASHINGTON DC DATE BACK 126 YEARS TO 1884.
> 
> AS OF 1 PM TODAY...WITH THE 11.9 INCH TWO-DAY SNOWFALL TOTAL MEASURED AT BALTIMORE/WASHINGTON INTERNATIONAL THURGOOD MARSHALL AIRPORT...THE SEASONAL SNOWFALL TOTAL IN BALTIMORE STANDS AT 72.3 INCHES. THIS WOULD BREAK THE PREVIOUS ALL-TIME SEASONAL SNOWFALL RECORD FOR BALTIMORE OF 62.5 INCHES SET IN THE WINTER OF 1995-96. OFFICIAL SNOWFALL RECORDS FOR BALTIMORE DATE BACK 118 YEARS TO 1893.
> ...


For DC, you have to remember too that the 1898/99 record was recorded at a downtown location that gets FAR more snow than the airport right on the river (DC's current recording station), so the snowfall totals are that much more epic.


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## Amtrak839 (Feb 10, 2010)

Update of life on the RF&P, slightly late, believe these are from yesterday:

CSX BD Dispatcher Transcripts:

"You don’t want to know how bad it is…I can get you to Ravensworth [a few miles south of Franconia] but probably not beyond…Those four trains they are fleeting north from Richmond you can probably get on one of them, I wouldn’t venture to say which…"

"I’ve got one track from ? to Ravensworth…trains parked on the other track, with switches frozen…an 8,000 foot train just went into emergency at Fredericksburg, they’re walking the train with 2 feet of snow…I’m sorry to disappoint you."

And a general report:

Amtrak offered CSX a back-to-back rescue engine and crew last night to go out of DC and down onto the RF&P to rescue stranded crews. The only mistake is that Amtrak didn't put a coach in between the two engines. At the highest point, there were 17 CSX employees jammed in the two cabs. They spent almost 7 hours rescuing stranded crews on the RF&P, some who had been with their trains over 36 hours.

These were passed on to me by a friend, not sure what his source was, but he has proven to be a very reliable source of information.


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## Idon'tFly (Feb 10, 2010)

Here is the news update from CSX.com. Still looks bad for my trip on Sunday.

CSX Service Bulletin: Feb. 10 Winter Weather Update

Released: Feb 10, 2010

CSX train and yard operations throughout the Midwest, Northeast and Mid-Atlantic are still affected by the severe winter weather experienced over the last several days and the new weather system moving through the Northeast now. Record snowfalls and near white-out conditions are affecting many locations around our network, especially in the Northeast. CSX crews are working to restore and maintain service in our yards, terminals and along the line of road when it is safe and feasible. Customers are advised to expect continued delays over the next 48 to 72 hours until this weather system passes and our field operations can be safely resumed.

The derailment near Cumberland, Md has been cleared. However, due to the congestion and weather delays in the area, service delays should be expected for the next few days.

CSX is doing everything possible to restore normalized service around our network. Our crews, working under difficult circumstances, are doing an amazing job of keeping our network running without compromising safety. We appreciate your understanding and patience as we all recover from these record-breaking storms.


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## Scared Southern Traveler (Feb 10, 2010)

Can anyone here take an educated guess as to whether the Auto Train will run from Lorton to Sanford on Sunday, 2/14?


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## Amtrak839 (Feb 10, 2010)

Scared Southern Traveler said:


> Can anyone here take an educated guess as to whether the Auto Train will run from Lorton to Sanford on Sunday, 2/14?


I think it probably will. The problems stopping the Auto Train right now are between Lorton and Richmond. That's a major passenger and freight route, so CSX should be working quickly to get those tracks cleared.


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## henryj (Feb 11, 2010)

It just keeps going on. More of the same. Still no service to Florida.

Amtrak Continues to Offer Acela Express/Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 11

February 10, 2010

8:00 pm ET

Washington - Despite continued severe winter weather in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, the Northeast Corridor remains open and Amtrak will operate Acela Express and Northeast Regional service between Boston, New York and Washington on Thursday, February 11 to correspond with passenger demand.

The recent wave of severe weather has also resulted in downed trees and power lines on portions of CSX freight railroad tracks south of Washington, requiring continued service cancelations in Virginia, and the Carolinas.

The following service adjustments have been made for Thursday, February 11:

Acela Express

- Trains 2103, 2107, 2151, 2155, 2117, 2121, 2165, 2167, 2119, 2171, 2173, 2193, 2109, 2153, 2190, 2150, 2100, 2154, 2104, 2160, 2110, 2166, 2170, 2122, 2124 and 2126 are canceled

- Trains 2168 and 2172 are canceled Boston to New York, but will operate New York to Washington Northeast Regionals

- Trains 151, 181, 125, 85, 127, 193, 187, 110, 130, 86, 84, 186, 196, 188, 183, 129 and 141 are all canceled

- Train 173 canceled Boston to New York, but will operate New York to Washington

- Trains 67, 95, 67, 94 and 66 are all canceled south of Washington

- Train 93 canceled Boston to New York, but will operate New York to Washington, will not travel south of Washington

- Train 190 canceled Washington to New York, but will operate New York to Boston

All Northeast Regional service south of Washington to Richmond and Newport News is canceled.

Northeast Regional train 176 will operate Lynchburg to Washington and onto Boston and train 171 will operate through to Lynchburg. Keystone Service

- Will operate Trains 641, 655, 644 and 656 only. Empire Service: Limited service is available between Niagara Falls, Albany and New York. The following services are canceled in their entirety with no alternate transportation:

Capitol Limited: Trains 29 and 30 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago); Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.); Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah). The following are offering service along a portion of their normal routes:

Silver Service: Trains 97 and 98 will operate between Miami and Savannah only. Trains 91 and 92 will operate between Miami and Raleigh only. Carolinian: Trains 79 and 80 will operate between Raleigh and Charlotte only. Cardinal Service: Trains 50 and 51 will operate between Huntington, WV, and Chicago only. All other Amtrak services, including the Piedmont, trains 73 and 74 (Raleigh – Charlotte) and the Crescent, trains 19 and 20 (New York – New Orleans) are expected to operate normally.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## haolerider (Feb 11, 2010)

henryj said:


> It just keeps going on. More of the same. Still no service to Florida.
> Amtrak Continues to Offer Acela Express/Regional Service on the Northeast Corridor February 11
> 
> February 10, 2010
> ...


You think they don't want to get service restored to FL??


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## acelafan (Feb 11, 2010)

henryj said:


> It just keeps going on. More of the same. Still no service to Florida.


And it will continue until CSX and the other East Coast RRs can get everything cleaned up after the blizzard(s). I am sure they are all working hard to clear the tracks. It's not too fun working outside with the temperature around 30 and the winds gusting to 40MPH as it is right now in DC.

It goes without saying that Amtrak wants to get the trains rolling as soon as they can.


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## jis (Feb 11, 2010)

acelafan said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > It just keeps going on. More of the same. Still no service to Florida.
> ...


I was reading on another board that couple of days back Amtrak sent out 2 P42s from Alexandria to rescue CSX crews from stalled trains. Jokingly the poster said that the mistake that they made was to not include a coach between the two P42s. At the end of it all apparently a total of 17 crew members, some of whom had been stuck on their engines for over 36 hours were crammed into the two available cabs and brought back to Alexandria. Things have been really really bad for whatever reason on the RF&P.


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## Idon'tFly (Feb 11, 2010)

Most Northeast Corridor and Service South of Washington Resumes February 12

February 11, 2010

5:30 pm ET

Washington - Most service in the Northeast Corridor resumes Friday, February 12. Amtrak will operate Acela Express and Northeast Regional service between Boston, New York and Washington.

Service south of Washington through Virginia and in the Carolinas also resumes.

Service adjustments for Friday, February 12

All Acela Express trains will operate normally. Northeast Regionals

- Trains 111 and 78 are canceled.

- Train 83 will operate from Boston to Richmond only.

- Train 85 will operate from Washington to Richmond only.

- Trains 86, 84 and 94 are canceled south of Washington. All Keystone trains will operate normally. All Empire Service train will operate normally. Silver Service trains 92, 97 and 98 (Miami to New York) will operate normally. Carolinian trains 79 and 80 will operate normally between New York and Charlotte. Capitol Limited train 30 will operate normally between Chicago and New York. The following services are canceled in their entirety with no alternate transportation:

Capitol Limited: Train 29 (Washington, D.C. – Chicago); Auto Train: Trains 52 and 53 (Lorton, Va. – Sanford, Fla.); Palmetto: Trains 89 and 90 (New York – Savannah). Full service on these trains is expected to resume Saturday, February 13. The following are offering service along a portion of their normal routes:

Silver Service: Train 91 will operate between Raleigh and Miami only. Cardinal Service: Trains 50 and 51 will operate between Huntington, WV, and Chicago only. Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

YEAH!! My train Silver Service is expected to run normally again...Now I can stop research blogs all day, so I can pack!!

Thank you all for your help and information!! I appreciate it!!

Happy Travels!!


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2010)

I hope Amtrak stays true to its word and that only the Cardinal remains suspended tommorow...

Looks like a day for equipment positioning!


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## jis (Feb 13, 2010)

A footnote to these harrowing times due to snow....

There are reports from Amtrak Engineers who run both Acelas and Regionals on the NEC posted on railroad.net and misc.transport.rail.americas newsgroup on Usenet stating the following:

1. All Acela sets that operated during the snow event, did so with only the front motor running. The rear motor was completely powered down.

2. There were several instances where an Acela set was substituted for a Regional consist to run a Regional schedule. This naturally created a few issues about platforming and boarding at places like KIN. But somehow they apparently managed.

I have no idea why substitution was carried out as in 2, but would guess that it might have had something to do with consists out of position.

There is anecdotal evidence supporting Alan's conjecture that many of the cancellations were more because there was hardly any ridership, rather than because there was any train equipment problems on the NEC. Track availability was another matter though. There was significant capacity reduction because not all tracks were cleared all the time. For a period Prince to Bacon was single tracked, and then signal power failed thus requiring Form D operation of everything between Wilmington and Baltimore, which naturally was no fun. Certain interlocking were nailed straight and not used during the peak of the storm. However, unlike in the past, Swift interlocking operated flawlessly through the storm and thus there were very few diversions of Midtown Directs to Hoboken. Those new electric switch heaters apparently performed well even in the face of 2" to 3" per hour snowfall rates and blowing snow.

Incidentally, it was also mentioned that the massive tree cutting operation that Amtrak undertook in the fall last year may have saved the day on the NEC, since there were no tree incidents of much consequence on the NEC this time.

As for the Auto Train reports are that it will start operating on its regular schedule from 2/15. Haven't seen anything specific yet on the Cardinal, but my guess is starting mid week. AFAICT everything else is operating normally today in, to and from the Northeast.


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## wayman (Feb 13, 2010)

jis said:


> Certain interlocking were nailed straight and not used during the peak of the storm.


Just curious, do they do this physically at the track with spikes (as in the olden days) to make damn sure the rails themselves don't move due to water/ice/expansion/whatever issues?

Or do they just do this at the control tower with a physical lock on the switch levers/cranks/buttons?

Or is the control tower so remote that there are no levers, just software, so they do this with a software lock-out, and just assume everything will work properly at the physical switchpoint itself which is miles away and not subject to visual confirmation or inspection?

I would think the biggest concern during a storm is "train running through creates enough heat to melt snow temporarily, water seeps down between the rails at the switch, then re-freezes to ice which means it expands and pushes the switch points apart a bit, possibly enough to pose a big problem for the next train". And a software lock, or even a lever lock, may not be enough to counter the effects of Mother Nature....


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## jis (Feb 13, 2010)

wayman said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Certain interlocking were nailed straight and not used during the peak of the storm.
> ...


I don't know for sure. But my guess is that since all of NEC barring a few exceptions in NJ is now CTC controlled through a few CETC centers, the "nailing" happens through locking the switches through the control system to make sure that they are not moved. Also it would be kind of hard to nail anything through concrete ties I would imagine, at least for those switches that sit on concrete ties.

I also believe that all mainline switches on the NEC are now equipped with electric heaters of some sort, so the straightlining is to simply reduce the chances of switches requiring maintenance in difficult conditions, I'd imagine. I suspect that the electric heaters are operated even when the switches are not used.

I have not heard about water seeping down, freezing and expanding as an issue, but then again that is neither here, nor there, since I have no way of making sure that I have heard everything on the subject 

Again these are all my best guesses. I will ask my CETC operator friend the next time I run into him.


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## jis (Feb 13, 2010)

BTW brace yourselves. From www.wunderground.com:

Washington DC Monday afternoon through Tuesday early morning 70% likelihood of snow, amounts too early to project. Blustery

Richmond VA Monday afternoon through Tuesday early morning 50-60% likelihood of snow amount too early to project. Blustery

Baltimore MA Monday afternoon through Tuesday early morning 60-70% likelihood of snow amount too early to project. Blustery

Philadelphia PA Monday afternoon through Tuesday afternoon 60% likelihood of snow amount too early to project. Blustery

New York NY Monday night through Tuesday afternoon 60% likelihood of snow amount too early to project. Blustery

Hope it is all just a few inches. Otherwise at least south of Philly we are screwed. I don't expect any problems in the NY/NJ area, which handled the big one last week with style (except for the yoyos in Camden who plowed their street and put all the snow on the RiverLINE tracks :angry: ), and all roads and railroads are completely clear and operational. New York City actually had school closure only one day, the day of the actual snowstorm.


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