# Amtrak Coffee



## VentureForth (Dec 30, 2011)

What brand does Amtrak use for coffee? What did the legacy railroads use? Is there really "railroad coffee"? If I were to open a café next to a mainline track and offer "railroad coffee" what would your expectations be?


----------



## acelafan (Dec 30, 2011)

I think it's Green Mountain coffee. I am sure someone can confirm/refute that. Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.

As long as the coffee is strong and hot I'm not too picky on brand!


----------



## PRR 60 (Dec 30, 2011)

acelafan said:


> I think it's Green Mountain coffee. I am sure someone can confirm/refute that. Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.
> 
> As long as the coffee is strong and hot I'm not too picky on brand!


At least in the NEC, it's Green Mountain Coffee.


----------



## dlagrua (Dec 30, 2011)

All I have even seen is Green Mountain Coffee served on Amtrak trains. Although I am primarily an Espresso drinker, you do get a consistently good cup of coffee on Amtrak and its free in the sleepers.


----------



## Anthony (Dec 30, 2011)

As of a month or two ago, the brewed coffee is no longer Green Mountain coffee. You'll notice there is a new style of coffee cup with no logo.

The new vendor is S&D Coffee: http://www.sndcoffee.com/

I can't speak for the Douwe Egberts auto-coffee machines, but I know that stuff tastes different, anyway


----------



## pennyk (Dec 30, 2011)

Speaking of coffee machines... Since I do not drink coffee and am often in search of hot water for tea, I am usually disappointed that the Viewliner machines often do not work and the Superliners do not have hot water dispensers. However, I noticed that the sleepers on the Auto Train have fancy coffee machines that also have a hot water dispenser.

Anthony - is there any chance that all the Superliners will switch to that type machine or is it specific to the AT?


----------



## Anthony (Dec 30, 2011)

pennyk said:


> Speaking of coffee machines... Since I do not drink coffee and am often in search of hot water for tea, I am usually disappointed that the Viewliner machines often do not work and the Superliners do not have hot water dispensers. However, I noticed that the sleepers on the Auto Train have fancy coffee machines that also have a hot water dispenser.
> 
> Anthony - is there any chance that all the Superliners will switch to that type machine or is it specific to the AT?


Don't know, sorry!


----------



## Palmland (Dec 30, 2011)

Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.


----------



## Anthony (Dec 30, 2011)

Palmland said:


> Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.


Actually, I think it's as simple as the fact that GM stopped making filter packs! Amtrak doesn't have K-Cup machines in the cafe cars, and I imagine that would be a very expensive retrofit.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 30, 2011)

Anthony said:


> As of a month or two ago, the brewed coffee is no longer Green Mountain coffee. You'll notice there is a new style of coffee cup with no logo. The new vendor is S&D Coffee: http://www.sndcoffee.com/ I can't speak for the Douwe Egberts auto-coffee machines, but I know that stuff tastes different, anyway


I was wondering to what extent S&D made use of sustainable fair trade sources, but as a privately held company easily accessible information was hard to find. Do you have any idea Anthony?


----------



## Anthony (Dec 30, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Anthony said:
> 
> 
> > As of a month or two ago, the brewed coffee is no longer Green Mountain coffee. You'll notice there is a new style of coffee cup with no logo. The new vendor is S&D Coffee: http://www.sndcoffee.com/ I can't speak for the Douwe Egberts auto-coffee machines, but I know that stuff tastes different, anyway
> ...


Sorry, I don't know anything else.


----------



## amamba (Dec 30, 2011)

That is a shame that they are no longer doing green mountain coffee. The green mountain coffee is very good and they do have a whole line of fair trade products.

If you were opening a cafe at the train station and offering "railroad coffee", I would expect the coffee to be strong and flavorful. Robust one might say.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 30, 2011)

acelafan said:


> Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.


Those machines on the Viewliners are going away, in favor of the old-style percolators found on the Superliners.


----------



## PRR 60 (Dec 30, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Anthony said:
> 
> 
> > As of a month or two ago, the brewed coffee is no longer Green Mountain coffee. You'll notice there is a new style of coffee cup with no logo. The new vendor is S&D Coffee: http://www.sndcoffee.com/ I can't speak for the Douwe Egberts auto-coffee machines, but I know that stuff tastes different, anyway
> ...


From S&D Food Innovation and Ingredients,a division of S&D Coffee:



> Our customers and their customers are becoming more aware of sustainable coffee offerings. At S&D Coffee, we offer sustainable coffees that include Fair Trade Certified™, Rainforest Alliance Certified™ and Quality Assurance International organic certified coffees.


S&D

Now, do you think Amtrak buys the (presumably) more expensive Fair Trade products? I'm betting not.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 30, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > I was wondering to what extent S&D made use of sustainable fair trade sources, but as a privately held company easily accessible information was hard to find. Do you have any idea Anthony?
> ...


I saw that but I couldn't seem to find anything about the extent of their use as a percentage of the sourcing or sales; just that some unknown percentage of certain specific brands is in compliance. If Amtrak is using a high percentage sustainable fair trade mix that would be good to know.


----------



## amtrakwolverine (Dec 30, 2011)

I say just go with Folgers or Maxwell house coffee both are good.


----------



## The Chief (Dec 30, 2011)

*S&D Coffee* _is _Fair-Trade certified, as well as organic and shade-grown. In 3Q 2011 S&D, largest U.S._food service_ coffee roaster, introduced "Bird Friendly" coffee (BFC).

To earn the BFC designation, product must come from farms with a leafy shade cover that provides vital habitat for local _and_ migratory birds. Smithsonian Migratory Bird Center sets standards for BFC.

In several hotels I've stayed in over the years, S&D is product provider for in-room coffee service. I like it.


----------



## Guest (Dec 30, 2011)

VentureForth said:


> If I were to open a café next to a mainline track and offer "railroad coffee" what would your expectations be?


Rude service, long wait times, nonsensical customer unfriendly policies, outdated decor

but at least I wouldn't have to hear "single shot half frap breve extra foam fourty pump mucho grande skinny mocha latte hold the espresso and some leave room for even more milk and sugar"


----------



## PRR 60 (Dec 30, 2011)

Guest said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > If I were to open a café next to a mainline track and offer "railroad coffee" what would your expectations be?
> ...


LOL!!! Laugh of the day.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 30, 2011)

amamba said:


> If you were opening a cafe at the train station and offering "railroad coffee", I would expect the coffee to be strong and flavorful. Robust one might say.


I believe such an establishment is called a "Hobby Shop" and it's where railfans hang around all day running the model railroad, looking over the newest rolling stock, structures and other goodies and justifying how they can add those to the home layout. It takes plenty of strong coffee to keep this going :lol:


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 30, 2011)

amtrakwolverine said:


> I say just go with Folgers or Maxwell house coffee both are good.


Best joke of the entire thread! :lol:



The Chief said:


> *S&D Coffee* _is _Fair-Trade certified, as well as organic and shade-grown. In 3Q 2011 S&D, largest U.S._food service_ coffee roaster, introduced "Bird Friendly" coffee (BFC). To earn the BFC designation, product must come from farms with a leafy shade cover that provides vital habitat for local _and_ migratory birds. Smithsonian Migratory Bird Center sets standards for BFC. In several hotels I've stayed in over the years, S&D is product provider for in-room coffee service. I like it.


It is my understanding that each blend has its own percentage of certified beans. This can be up to 100% but is often much lower, down to maybe 30% or so. Those specific blends with some portion of certified beans are themselves a much smaller percentage of the total sourcing and sales. It's the percentage of total sales that's important to me. The rest is just window dressing really. To give an example, Starbucks is fair trade certified, but if you do some research you'll discover that what you're actually drinking depends greatly on which stores you visit. In Western Europe the primary brews will be fair trade certified while some of the specialty one-off brews may not be. While in the US the primary brews will NOT be fair trade and you will have to specifically request a fair trade brew from scratch to get fair trade coffee.


----------



## Big Iron (Dec 30, 2011)

AlanB said:


> acelafan said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it differs between the Viewliner machines and the old-style percolators on the Superliners.
> ...


Is this occuring now? Hope so, I'll be on the LSL heading western bound on 2/18, CL return on 2/19. I'll do a coffee comparison.

Last I rode, in 1/2010 I much preferred the Superliner coffee to the Viewliner.

PS: I haven't ridden the LSL westbound at all and last eastbound trip was into Grand Central. STOKED!!!!


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Dec 30, 2011)

“You don’t have to spend a lot to get a great cup of coffee, despite what some coffee snobs may tell you,” said Bob Markovich, home and yard editor, Consumer Reports. “Several of CR’s top coffees could save you $25 to $75 each year over pricier brands even if you just drank one 6-ounce cup a day.”

This excerpt from 2009 Consumer Reports pretty sums up my feelings about average coffee drinkers since most drinkers do not drink it black and add anything from sugar, milk/cream and flavored milks and when blind folded can't tell the difference unless they drink it black. As a sugar/cream or milk addee I can't and I don't think most of the coffee "snobs" on AU can either. I can tell the difference from most coffee sold in America (mostly Colombian/Arabic) which are all derivatives from Ethiopian coffee from pure KONA coffee. Some people just like to blow smoke up people's asses. I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.

NAVYBLUE


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 30, 2011)

NAVYBLUE said:


> I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.


Yeah! Wait. What? :wacko:


----------



## amamba (Dec 30, 2011)

NAVYBLUE said:


> I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.


This is an interesting jump and assumption.

Most people that I know that are concerned about drinking fair trade coffee make a point to buy local as much as possible.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 30, 2011)

Big Iron said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > acelafan said:
> ...


Yes. I'm not sure at what rate, but when I headed to the Gathering back in October the other NY sleeper had the old style coffee pot, while mine still had the crappy machine. But I have it on good authority from someone right at the top that Amtrak will be removing those machines in favor of the perc pots. In fact, I actually had the pleasure of meeting that person because of the coffee pot.


----------



## Ryan (Dec 30, 2011)

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Let that one sink in for a while, shipmate.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Dec 30, 2011)

And now back to our sponsor Green Mt Coffee.

While in the Hawaiian Islands( Maui/Hawaii) in 2007 I visited a couple of coffee farms in the KONA coffee area of Hawaii ( The Big Island) as I didn't know how coffee was grown and they are very nice and expalin/show you everthing and learned a secret from one of the owners.

I said is there anyway to enjoy KONA coffee without buying it in it's pure state which is not cheap. Here is what I learned. Other tha nusing the fancy coffee presses to brew he said:

Take a 50/50 blend of KONA and 8 O'Clock or Peets whole bean coffee and grind. Never use pre-ground coffee he said as the coffee oils starts a slow rancid process

Try to find the brown filters for your drip coffee pot as the white paper ones are bleached and the chemical residue affects the taste. Also he said when you put the brown filter in the holder run water so it is very wet and sticks to the side and gets any loose paper residue out of the filter

Use only DISTILLED water.

Never store beans in the refrigerator

Clean your coffee pot system once a month including the filter holder.

He said unless your are a coffee grader you can not tell the difference between pure KONA and the 50/50 mix.

He said in his opinion and he said others disagree with him, but that 8 O' Clock and Peets (fresh ground bean) by themselves are second only to KONA for the best tasting coffee found in mainland U.S. To each his own.

NAVYBLUE


----------



## AlanB (Dec 30, 2011)

Anthony said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.
> ...


It would also be very inefficient and expensive in terms of buying the coffee if they were to switch to K-Cup machines in either the diner or the cafe car. It might, might make some sense in the sleepers. But definitely not in the diner & cafe. I can walk into a Dunkin Donuts and buy a pound of ground coffee for $8.99 and make a ton of coffee. A 14 pack of K-Cups making exactly 14 cups of coffee costs $12.99. I get way more than 14 cups of coffee out of a pound and I spend $4 less to begin with.

So aside from the fact that the need to make dozens of cups of coffee at the same time in the diner, it would also cost Amtrak far more just to buy the coffee.


----------



## RRUserious (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm not a great judge of "coffee quality". I do like the idea of paying coffee growers enough to live on. But I'm pretty sure most coffee isn't made with those beans (for one thing, the thirst for coffee far exceeds what growers like that can provide).

All I can say is that being just a few steps from a coffee maker with hot coffee in it was one of the nicest "perks" (no pun) of paying for a sleeping room. Sitting in the lounge car with a hot cup, watching scenery go by was another warm memory (no puns again). So I guess I'm a neutral in any fight about whether Amtrak is doing right. They sure are doing right by me.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2011)

NAVYBLUE said:


> And now back to our sponsor Green Mt Coffee.
> 
> While in the Hawaiian Islands( Maui/Hawaii) in 2007 I visited a couple of coffee farms in the KONA coffee area of Hawaii ( The Big Island) as I didn't know how coffee was grown and they are very nice and expalin/show you everthing and learned a secret from one of the owners.
> 
> ...


Yep

Clean equipment

Good water

Freshly ground beans (burr grinder, not blade)

If you are not doing these things the quality of beans doesn't matter nearly as much. These three things are not magic, they are not hard, and there is really no skill involved besides knowing what setting to put your grinder on. The burr grinder will set you back a little money, but even without it cleanliness and good water make a huge difference.

I have never seen a burr grinder or jugs of distilled water on a train so GM or S&D probably doesn't make much difference.


----------



## dlagrua (Dec 31, 2011)

There are two distinct species of coffee bean plants, Robusta and Arabica. Most coffee served in restaurants is the more common species called "Robusta". Arabica coffee is the superior species from the coffee lover's point of view. Robusta is a high yielding coffee plant that is more easily grown. Arabica beans can only be grown in regions 20* N and S of the equator and in distinct climates. They are the bean of choice in "gourmet" coffee. Arabica coffee beans produce the rich flavor and body found in a good cup of coffee. Robusta usually lacks this flavor and body. As a true coffee connoisseur I only drink the higher grade Arabica coffees but not all grades of Robusta coffees are bad and not all Arabica coffees are good. Due to the higher cost I don't believe that you will be getting high grade Arabica coffee on Amtrak anytime soon. As for K cups, you pay about $37.00/lb to have coffees of questionable quality and for that lazy convenience. Its not cost effective for a commercial establishment.


----------



## Golden grrl (Dec 31, 2011)

Big Iron said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > acelafan said:
> ...


Here's my quite recent comparison.

I rode the Sunset [superliner] all the way from LAX to NOL and then Crescent [Viewliner] on the next day, not quite 3 weeks ago. TE coffee [old perc] significantly superior to that on Crescent [some kind of new-fangled machine, didn't pay attention to what type]. Drank a lot on the Crescent, though, since the car was so cold. Heat was broken on the sleeper and an extra blanket and a warm coffee cup were wondrous joy. Coffee in the Crescent diner was better than that in the sleeper. Don't know how they made it in the diner, I was just guzzling it as fast as they could refill.


----------



## EB_OBS (Dec 31, 2011)

Anthony said:


> Palmland said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad about the change in coffee as Green Mountain is about as good as it gets. A cost cutting move by Amtrak? Or perhaps Green Mountain wasn't such a good deal for Amtrak anymore since it has gotten very popular due to its use in the Keurig coffee makers.
> ...


This is absolutely correct. Green Mountain discontinue their filter packs. Amtrak 32 cup coffee makers utilize sealed filter packs and not open top filters.


----------



## EB_OBS (Dec 31, 2011)

The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.

It's probable that this coffee and it's equipment will be going away though. It's apparently highly susceptible to fire if not properly maintained.


----------



## Blackwolf (Dec 31, 2011)

EB_OBS said:


> The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.
> 
> It's probable that this coffee and it's equipment will be going away though. It's apparently highly susceptible to fire if not properly maintained.


Tell that to the Oakland Shops when California Zephyr's diner decided to do a Roman Candle impression some months back! Yup, the coffee maker was the culprit and I do recall that this one incident is far from the first but certainly the most destructive. Destroy a several million dollar piece of rolling stock (and damage the SSL and sleeper on either side) and you have yourself a new coffee contract!

Talking with a fellow firefighter working for Oakland FD and who was on the incident, he remarked just how hard it is to put a fire out in a Superliner railcar. Sheet metal everywhere, that turns into razor blades when cut, with thousands of small nooks and crannies filled with foam insulation/wiring/plastic parts which burn with acrid smoke and are nearly impossible to access. They hated the damn thing, and had to babysit it for hours to make sure the fire was out before passing control of the car back to Amtrak staff.


----------



## AlanB (Dec 31, 2011)

EB_OBS said:


> The coffee that's currently served in most Amtrak Superliner dining cars is Douwe Eggberts. It's a frozen liquid coffee concentrate. Personally, I'm not a coffee drinker. I have not ever had anyone tell me the Douwe Eggberts coffee was bad.


It's OK, certainly better than the swill brewed by the automatic coffee makers installed on the Viewliner sleepers (now being retired), but it's not great either. In fact on my last trip, I carried along my NY Mets/Club Acela coffee mug that I got from my visit to the Amtrak Suite in the new Citi Field, and I filled that up in the sleeper and carried it into the dining car for breakfast.

But still, the absolute worst is that which is made by those automated coffee makers in the Viewliners. Which is why I was so happy to hear from Brian Gallagher whom I accidentally bumped into on the LSL, that those coffee makers were being pulled in favor of the old style perk pots. Yes it requires a bit more work on the part of the sleeping car attendant, but for the passenger it is simply so much better!


----------



## Shanghai (Jan 1, 2012)

Alan, the absolute worse coffee served by Amtrak is in the Acela Lounge at NYP!!

I go to Krispy Kreme and buy my coffee before going to the lounge.


----------



## RRUserious (Jan 1, 2012)

Spose for a long trip a person could drip brew at home and take it in a pumper thermos.


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 2, 2012)

amamba said:


> NAVYBLUE said:
> 
> 
> > I am also so impressed with the fair trade crowd who also buy China crap which is a large amount of our consumer purchases made with near slave labor and get all uppity about coffee. Give me a freakin break people.
> ...



I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

Long Train Runnin said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > NAVYBLUE said:
> ...



Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist. The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma. On a similar vein, my SIL worked for a sewing company in SW Pennsylvania. She described how one week she sewed SEARS on these women's cotton pajamas. Next week same exact pajamas BUT Ralph Lauren went on. You hardly know what you are buying nowadays unless you are right there where they make it, build it or grow it. That's why I belong to a farm Co-op in Nevada and actually get to go see the stuff grown.

Man, I hope you have armor on. INCOMING !!!!

NAVYBLUE

PS: Also I don't know how long this post will stay up as the moderators also appear to be afraid of the truth also.


----------



## pennyk (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > amamba said:
> ...


I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."

I think there is a big difference in LTR's calm post in which he is not name calling or insulting any group. Some of my AU "best friends" are conservative and we remain friends because we respect each other's opinions and do not engage in name calling.

Peace and Namaste,

Penny


----------



## MrFSS (Jan 2, 2012)

pennyk said:


> I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."
> 
> I think there is a big difference in LTR's calm post in which he is not name calling or insulting any group. Some of my AU "best friends" are conservative and we remain friends because we respect each other's opinions and do not engage in name calling.
> 
> ...


And, we all know, respect, and appreciate LTR and would never question his position.


----------



## AlanB (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > I've spent the past 2 months working with a high end coffee company and have been to some of the largest coffee terminals in the Northeast, "fair trade" coffee comes out of the same container as "non fair trade" and from there you work with the fair trade alliance in California pay your fees to use their logo, and after you have roasted and packaged the coffee it is magically fair trade...
> ...


Actually the only one throwing around names here, as pointed out by Penny, is you!

And for the record, party affiliation is not a question that gets asked when considering who gets to be a moderator. In fact, I believe based upon my knowledge pieced together from casual conversations; 2 staff members are Republicans, 2 are Democrats and I suspect that a third also is, and I'm an Independent. So that pretty much blows your theory.

Now let's lay off the nonsense and get back to discussing trains!

Thank you.


----------



## amamba (Jan 2, 2012)

From what EB_OBS posted, the coffee in the diners is different from that in the sleepers, right? Maybe that explains why I thought the coffee in the diner on the SWC was so weak. I needed like 4 cups of it one morning to start feeling like a normal person again.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

First off AlanB a none other authority than Amanda has already told us "liberal" is not a dirty name.

Second, pennyk as you may be late to this rodeo you have NO idea what has been insinuated about me.

Thirdly AlanB, I have NEVER started an original post of mine that contained political talk or leanings. I have responded to posts that turned into political screeds. As I have stated before, I am able to ferret out the political statements that some are trying to discretely weave in and out their screeds. When I disagree, I respond.

Fourthly you have a poster that uses an AVATAR of a open mouthed Newt Gingrich and a two faced Governor Perry. How is that not political or name calling. I suppose you would have no problem with me using the famous Obama white face or Obama with red line through it or the myriad of other Obama caricatures. I didn't think so. I don't do it because I have respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS.

Fifthly this is the rare site that I go to (I am a member of 47 sign in sites) that doesn't have a political discussion section.

Sixthly as I have discovered the AU/Rail fan(as in fanatic) in general tends to lean Democratic, they tend to couch their words in support of AMTRAK because the have a vested interest in it. Anything that goes against their dogma is meant with scorn and no facts to back their views with

Seventhly I've discovered a lot of this after viewing a year and a half of posts. I didn't come here thinking "Oh, they will love me to death" Personally I have some web sites I go that I told you privately make some of these posts pale in comparison.

Eighthly I have learned an incredible amount of info that helped me with the west to east part of my LD from LAX-CHI-BAL and the 1/11 east to west return and will be forever grateful for their assistance and the valuable info I have received and hope to receive.

And finally as I told you in a private email, I will challenge those who think their number of posts constitutes imperial wisdom about everything.

NAVYBLUE


----------



## Shortline (Jan 2, 2012)

If it isn't freshly ground and steeped in a French press, it's equally mediocre! I prefer European roasts, Eduscho from Germany is one of my favorites.


----------



## AlanB (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> First off AlanB a none other authority than Amanda has already told us "liberal" is not a dirty name.


I never said it was a dirty name; just that you were throwing around names.



NAVYBLUE said:


> Second, pennyk as you may be late to this rodeo you have NO idea what has been insinuated about me.


And it got deleted. Time to let it go!



NAVYBLUE said:


> Thirdly AlanB, I have NEVER started an original post of mine that contained political talk or leanings. I have responded to posts that turned into political screeds


Wrong! You were the only one that thought that the question about Free Trade Coffee was a political conversation.

Is it possible that the poster knew of the political overtones? Sure! But he never mentioned politics; only you did.



NAVYBLUE said:


> Fourthly you have a poster that uses an AVATAR of a open mouthed Newt Gingrich and a two faced Governor Perry. How is that not political or name calling. I suppose you would have no problem with me using the famous Obama white face or Obama with red line through it or the myriad of other Obama caricatures. I didn't think so. I don't do it because I have respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS.


And I do as well have respect for the office, which is why despite my firm belief that George W Bush was one of the worst Presidents ever, I only publicly criticized the decisions and not the man during his time in office. And as someone who voted for his father and has great respect for his father, it pains me to acknowledge his sons' failures as a President. In fact, I wrote a similar post just about 2 weeks ago on a newspaper blog that can be found here. Roll about a quarter of the way down the page to a post dated Dec 18th at 5:19 PM with the author name of AHBLID, my other handle when posting on the and AlanB is already in use.

However, let me remind you that neither Mr. Gingrich nor Governor Perry are yet President.



NAVYBLUE said:


> Fifthly this is the rare site that I go to (I am a member of 47 sign in sites) that doesn't have a political discussion section.


Well I belong to about 12 sites, beyond this one, that don't have a political section. My guess is that it just has more to do with the overall theme of the forum than anything else.



NAVYBLUE said:


> Sixthly as I have discovered the AU/Rail fan(as in fanatic) in general tends to lean Democratic, they tend to couch their words in support of AMTRAK because the have a vested interest in it. Anything that goes against their dogma is meant with scorn and no facts to back their views with


I suspect that this forum does lean towards the Democratic side, but I can assure you that there are plenty of Republicans here too. I'm proud to count several as good friends.



NAVYBLUE said:


> Eighthly I have learned an incredible amount of info that helped me with the west to east part of my LD from LAX-CHI-BAL and will be forever grateful for their assistance.


I'm glad to hear that, as that is why this site exists. Everything else is really secondary.



NAVYBLUE said:


> And finally as I told you in a private email, I will challenge those who think there number of posts constitutes imperial wisdom about everything.


With respect, there is a difference between challenging them and shoving it down their throats. Yes, I know that you got slammed earlier on and again, we dealt with that. But lately it seems like you're doing more of the slamming, which is why you've seen some of your posts disappear. And again, those posts have been deleted by both Dem & Repub staff members, as well as me. So it's not a political thing.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie (Jan 2, 2012)

Guest said:


> Rude service, long wait times, nonsensical customer unfriendly policies, outdated decor


A place like that must have the best coffee because otherwise, they would not still be in business. :giggle:


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 2, 2012)

MrFSS said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > I am one of the liberals whose "panties get twisted in a bunch."
> ...


I don't think I've ever gotten flamed or gotten into anyone here on AU. I try to avoid being controversial if someone would like to challenge I would like to know how many times they've watched a coffee terminal break the seal on a 53 foot shipping container stacked floor to ceiling with 60 or 70 kilo bags of coffee, or for that matter could tell you the names of the people at the fair trade alliance who focus on coffee.

I don't see fair trade coffee as a political issue or even think some of these "ultra premium coffees" are worth anywhere close to what people will pay for them.

EDIT: read the rest of the posts before mine. I can sure you I had no intention of causing a political issue out of fair trade coffee in fact I didn't even see it as one... I just was sharing my knowledge about fair trade coffee since I've learned just about all coffee imported here on the East Coast meets the standards of fair trade, but the company you are buying or drinking coffee might just not pay the fees to the Fair Trade Alliance to use their logo.

Double edit: Just to cover myself in case someone really is trying to take an issue. Yes this year starting Jan 1 you can use the fair trade alliance logo on up to 20,000 pounds with their permission before you have to pay them, and you do in fact have a fair trade coffee. So as of yesterday you can use their logo without paying a fee and perhaps more coffee roasting companies will begin to use the logo on their products because of this change.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

AlanB said:


> NAVYBLUE said:
> 
> 
> > First off AlanB a none other authority than Amanda has already told us "liberal" is not a dirty name.
> ...


AlanB,

I agree with some of your replies and disagree with some of your replies. I find you to be fairly even handed. I can be an **** at times.

The "fair trade" discussion WAS political because as a 63 year old who is well educated and knowledgeable about Economics I know "fair trade" is political speak for FORCED MINIMUM WAGE. What that had to do with "train talk" about good/bad coffee still eludes me. Good coffee is not determined by the wages page to the workers. I unfortunately am bright enough to read the parsed words of the "experts on everything" to see the political underpinnings and will comment.

As I have stated before the I know economics, weapon laws and a person's mental status. Any other subjects I USUALLY avoid interjecting my opinion.

Newt Gingrich is former Speaker of the House and in formal occasions is still addressed as Mr Speaker. Mr Perry is still Governor of Texas. They deserve to not be caricatured on this site as well as the President. But there is that class thing.

As far as your misgivings about G.W.(you brought it up I didn't). President Obama has continued virtually every foreign policy decision as G.W. so I can assume you will equally disown/chatise him.

In the future I will try to limit the "name calling" but reserve to selectively use it for the "experts on everything"

Now back to our sponsor, Green Mountain Coffee.

NAVYBLUE

PS: Now if others could only admit their shortcomings and change their ways. I guess I can hope.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist.


Actually, no. Stephen is a long standing member that's pretty well respected by everyone. He's also able to make his point in a polite and respectful manner. You may attempt to learn a little bit from his posting style. It's possible to disagree without being disagreeable.


> The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma.


[citation needed]



> Man, I hope you have armor on. INCOMING !!!!
> NAVYBLUE
> 
> PS: Also I don't know how long this post will stay up as the moderators also appear to be afraid of the truth also.


You reap what you sow, shipmate.



Long Train Runnin said:


> I just was sharing my knowledge about fair trade coffee since I've learned just about all coffee imported here on the East Coast meets the standards of fair trade, but the company you are buying or drinking coffee might just not pay the fees to the Fair Trade Alliance to use their logo.


That's pretty much what I expected. Unfortunately, some people will spin that into something completely different.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> The "fair trade" discussion WAS political because as a 63 year old who is well educated and knowledgeable about Economics I know "fair trade" is political speak for FORCED MINIMUM WAGE. What that had to do with "train talk" about good/bad coffee still eludes me. Good coffee is not determined by the wages page to the workers.


I didn't see anyone claiming that it did. However buying Fair Trade is a matter of personal preference, which is relevant to the topic at hand.


> I unfortunately am bright enough to read the parsed words of the "experts on everything" to see the political underpinnings and will comment.


Perhaps if you spent a little less time telling us how smart you were, you'd be a little better received. Usually, the people that spend the most amount of time professing their expertise really aren't, and the truly knowledgeable people let their wisdom speak for itself.


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 2, 2012)

Maybe I shouldn't even post this, but frankly I have no idea how I even "took a position" I was simply posting "the crazy truth" about coffee and what it means when you see a fair trade logo on a coffee product. It is more of a licensing thing then any kind of complex trade agreement. I'm just a 19 year old college student working part time at a small business, and thought it would be helpful to those on this board to point out that just because your coffee doesn't say fair trade doesn't mean you are not actually drinking a fair trade coffee. I'm not sure how that statement even has any kind of political undertones in it at all. I'm sorry that I even opened this up, and I thank Penny, Tom and Ryan for their kind words. I had no intention of stirring up this kind of debate I was just trying to contribute what I know to this thread and community.


----------



## amamba (Jan 2, 2012)

Long Train Runnin said:


> EDIT: read the rest of the posts before mine. I can sure you I had no intention of causing a political issue out of fair trade coffee in fact I didn't even see it as one... I just was sharing my knowledge about fair trade coffee since I've learned just about all coffee imported here on the East Coast meets the standards of fair trade, but the company you are buying or drinking coffee might just not pay the fees to the Fair Trade Alliance to use their logo.
> 
> Double edit: Just to cover myself in case someone really is trying to take an issue. Yes this year starting Jan 1 you can use the fair trade alliance logo on up to 20,000 pounds with their permission before you have to pay them, and you do in fact have a fair trade coffee. So as of yesterday you can use their logo without paying a fee and perhaps more coffee roasting companies will begin to use the logo on their products because of this change.


LTR, I think I recently read an article stating that some of the "standards" for fair trade coffee - or for using the Fair Trade Alliance logo - were being changed. Aha - here it is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/24/business/as-fair-trade-movement-grows-a-dispute-over-its-direction.html?scp=1&sq=fair+trade+coffee&st=nyt

It is really interesting to hear from you that most coffee imported on the East Coast meets the standard of Fair Trade. And I will definitely trust the opinion of someone who is directly involved with the business.

I


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 2, 2012)

amamba said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: read the rest of the posts before mine. I can sure you I had no intention of causing a political issue out of fair trade coffee in fact I didn't even see it as one... I just was sharing my knowledge about fair trade coffee since I've learned just about all coffee imported here on the East Coast meets the standards of fair trade, but the company you are buying or drinking coffee might just not pay the fees to the Fair Trade Alliance to use their logo.
> ...


I agree that the term fair trade coffee looks like it will be changing and I guess when I say most east coast coffee would meet the standard I'm talking more about arabic beans in "premium coffee" the lower grade coffee found at gas stations, or other things along those lines are made from robusta and I have not asked which robusta beans could possibly earn the fair trade designation.

Green mountain buys a lot of coffee from the terminals I've gone to pick up coffee, and since they are really the biggest coffee roaster on the east coast it could be why their is so much fair trade coffee floating around the Northeast.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> As far as your misgivings about G.W.(you brought it up I didn't). President Obama has continued virtually every foreign policy decision as G.W. so I can assume you will equally disown/chatise him.


Even Republicans concede that Obama's foreign policy success far, far exceeds G.W.'s. Obama's problem is that right now, no one cares about foreign policy. It all about the domestic economy.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

Long Train Runnin said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > pennyk said:
> ...


LTR,

You're correct. YOU were not trying to be controversial. Someone else was using "train talk" to discuss "fair trade" coffee which is a political issue as it really means FORCED MINIMUM WAGE which my politically attuned nerves picked up.

BUT, back to real "train talk" and not thinly disguised political opinions.

I am interested in your knowledge/opinion on 8 O'clock, PEETS and KONA coffee.

NAVYBLUE


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

Ryan said:


> NAVYBLUE said:
> 
> 
> > Now you've done it !!! The liberals panties will be all twisted in a bunch now. Beware, you'll probably be called a troll, a liar, a straw man, an extremist.
> ...



*You may attempt to learn a little bit from his posting style. *

I don't think I need advice from you.

*]The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma*.* [citation needed]*

I don't answer to you

*You reap what you sow, shipmate.*

And finally. You have NOT earned the right to call me shipmate. If you age is correct in your profile, you turned 17 about the time I retired as a MASTER CHIEF PETTY OFFICER with (28) years active duty. You remember Master Chiefs don't you? You earn the title "shipmate" through respect and accomplishments, NOT because you can spell sailor. Get it. You didn't serve with me.

NAVYBLUE

PS: I am still drafting a personal email to you to discuss some of your "issues" which I don't believe appropriate for forum discussion.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> NAVYBLUE said:
> 
> 
> > As far as your misgivings about G.W.(you brought it up I didn't). President Obama has continued virtually every foreign policy decision as G.W. so I can assume you will equally disown/chatise him.
> ...


OK. You said it, so it must be true.

*Even Republicans concede that Obama's foreign policy success far, far exceeds G.W.'s.*

Who ? Colin Powell ?

NAVYBLUE


----------



## Ryan (Jan 2, 2012)

NAVYBLUE said:


> *You may attempt to learn a little bit from his posting style. *
> 
> I don't think I need advice from you.


Many things that you think are actually incorrect.



> *]The truth is not accepted here when it flies in the face of liberal dogma*.* [citation needed]*
> I don't answer to you


You made a claim, back it up or retract it.



> *You reap what you sow, shipmate.*
> And finally. You have NOT earned the right to call me shipmate. If you age is correct in your profile, you turned 17 about the time I retired as a MASTER CHIEF PETTY OFFICER with (28) years active duty. You remember Master Chiefs don't you? You earn the title "shipmate" through respect and accomplishments, NOT because you can spell sailor. Get it. You didn't serve with me.


I'll call you what I please, shipmate. If you had served with me, I'd have called you "Seaman" and you would have called me "Sir". If you want respect, treat others with respect. I'll show you the same respect that you show me and others on this forum.



> PS: I am still drafting a personal email to you to discuss some of your "issues" which I don't believe appropriate for forum discussion.


Anything you want to discuss with me, you can discuss in public. I have nothing to hide.


----------



## Anthony (Jan 2, 2012)

Let us all return to talking about trains, not politics.


----------



## NAVYBLUE (Jan 2, 2012)

Ryan said:


> NAVYBLUE said:
> 
> 
> > *You may attempt to learn a little bit from his posting style. *
> ...





A 90 day wonder. I am impressed. Ten more of you and you might make a wart on a Chief's behind !!!!

Many things that you think are actually incorrect. * [citation needed]*

Citations, I want citations to the things YOU think are incorrect. And I want your papers.

NAVYBLUE


----------



## Ryan (Jan 2, 2012)

Anthony said:


> Let us all return to talking about trains, not politics.


What part of that wasn't clear, Chief?

Drop it.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jan 2, 2012)

OK, that’s it for now. Coffee morphed to Fair Trade coffee, morphed to liberal verses conservative, and has since swirled down the political toilet despite Anthony’s valiant attempt to promote civility. I’ll leave this for Anthony and Alan to sort out, but I will not have any more useless debating that proves nothing and changes no one’s mind.


----------

