# St Pancras, London



## Neil_M (Dec 8, 2007)

Paid my first visit to the 'new' St Pancras, the terminal for Eurostar services to Paris and Brussels (and services to the East Midlands and Yorkshire), simply stunning!

I remember how run down and gloomy it was in the 1980s, now its just amazing. Still some work to do on the restaurants and shops in the undercroft beneath the platforms, but well done to all involved. Heartily recommended for a visit if you are this side of the Atlantic and I am looking forward to my overnight trip to Belgium next week to sample some fine Belgian beers!

Some photos at http://50031.fotopic.net/c1420640.html


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## como (Dec 9, 2007)

Neil_M said:


> Paid my first visit to the 'new' St Pancras, the terminal for Eurostar services to Paris and Brussels (and services to the East Midlands and Yorkshire), simply stunning!I remember how run down and gloomy it was in the 1980s, now its just amazing. Still some work to do on the restaurants and shops in the undercroft beneath the platforms, but well done to all involved. Heartily recommended for a visit if you are this side of the Atlantic and I am looking forward to my overnight trip to Belgium next week to sample some fine Belgian beers!
> 
> Some photos at http://50031.fotopic.net/c1420640.html


It is stunning. I like the art work. What will happen to the Waterloo International terminal?


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## Neil_M (Dec 9, 2007)

como said:


> It is stunning. I like the art work. What will happen to the Waterloo International terminal?


Waterloo International is a ghost station at the moment, very sad.... However from next year the platforms will be used for domestic services from Waterloo (South West Trains). Before its rebirth as a 'gateway to Europe', that side of Waterloo was almost a separate station from the main building, although the present "Windsor Lines" train shed is a lot more modern than what went before!


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## Lensmeister (Jan 18, 2008)

Ok allow me to be the fly in the ointment as they say.

I really HATE the new St. Pancras International. It's plastic, personaltiless (not a word I know) and it's tacky.

Too much glass and metal.

The floors are slippery in the dry, and in the wet weather it's like skating to your train.

Destination boards on the First Capital Connect platforms blend in to the concrete box it's built in and it's easy to miss. The fog of dust the prevails in this area is like watching a snowy day through a window, until you realies you can taste the dust.

A three level station. Not the greatest of concepts, and at peak commuter times navigating your way through the station is a nightmare (especially in the wet weather when no one wants to walk outside). From my views of the Eurostar area, there are lovely areas to walk through with no one to challenge you. But I will admit that I have not passed through to the other side therefore if I am wrong then fiar enough.

The announcements are infrequant, the plethora of staff in the lovely sky blue vest and vacant expressions are a sight to behold, but be warey fair visitor, never ask for information unless you intend to find it out yourself afterwards. In fact ... look your self.

Confusing? ..... no ...... FOUR ticket offices ... how could that be confusing? Think about it .. you speak little English and you are on holiday and want to go to somewhere ... do you get your ticket in the First Capital Conncet ticket office, the East Midlands Trains ticket office the Eurostar tiket office or the Underground Ticket office. .......

I actually heard of one person who wanted to go to Salisbury ... ALL ticket ticket offices told her their trains never went there ... but offered no other help. Great Advert for the UK rail industry.

So get you PhD on UK Rail travel, a dust sheet, some super duper gripping footwear and pop down .... you'll never regret it .........or will you.

Oh and by the way ... I have been in the Railways for 21 years ... and I use the station daily....... BRING BACK KINGS CROSS THAMESLINK !


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## George Harris (Jan 18, 2008)

Niel, can you espound on "undercroft"? I have a guess, but really do not know what this means. Is this one of the impenetrable Britishisms like "four foot" that leave the American side clueless?


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## Neil_M (Jan 18, 2008)

George Harris said:


> Niel, can you espound on "undercroft"? I have a guess, but really do not know what this means. Is this one of the impenetrable Britishisms like "four foot" that leave the American side clueless?


Its very simple, its a large underground cellar or storage area. The purpose of the one under St Pancras was to store the barrels of beer that arrived at the station by rail from Burton on Trent in the East Midlands of England. In later years it fell into disuse, but is now restored and in full use for shops and restaurants and the like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercroft


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## Brian UK (Jan 19, 2008)

Lensmeister said:


> Ok allow me to be the fly in the ointment as they say.
> I really HATE the new St. Pancras International. It's plastic, personaltiless (not a word I know) and it's tacky.
> 
> Too much glass and metal.
> ...


At last, someone prepared to speak out against this monstrosity and you are not alone. Yes, visually it is stunning, if anyone doubts that then go next door and look inside the dinghy trainshed that is Kings Cross. Yes, it is wonderful that we have a high speed line and trains. Yes, it is amazing that we can spend over £800m on a transport project in this economic climate BUT, what we have here is a classic case of the marketing hype and retail commercial interests taking priority over the day-to-day reality of travelling.

From a passenger's perspective, it is an information nightmare as the signage is appalling in it's clarity. Firstly it is only in two languages, English and French - what about German as a minimum? - and even then only when referring to Eurostar. So if you have just arrived from Koln via Bruxelles and want to travel further and dont understand English then you have a problem. Dont even think of having come from Spain, Italy or Poland.

There are 4 ticket/information offices. It is right and proper that Underground and Eurostar have their own, but certainly not right that there are then 2 more for UK internal journeys depending on which train company you are travelling with and apparently independently staffed by the look of the uniforms. Strangely the original signage for this area was *Domestic Tickets* and is part of the stonework. What on earth is that supposed to mean for a non-english speaking person? Thankfully at least this has now been changed to *UK Tickets* on the glass doors however there are still 2 entrances and then the counters are divided by a solid wall. Unless you are a regular traveller you simply do not know which one to use for your particular destination. One deals with tickets/information for one train company and the other, well you guessed it. Who knows where you will buy tickets for the 3rd operator coming on stream in 2009. Having mastered that bit you then go to the top level if you are travelling with East Midlands Trains and to the sub level if you are travelling with First Capital Connect. Still the signs refer to the train company and not the destination so no help if you dont know who operates to which destination.

Retail needs have taken priority over traveller needs as they take centre stage with all the above information sources placed on the edges and disparate from each other. On a recent TV documentary about the redevelopment, the Marketing guy was almost in tears because his shops wouldnt be open in time. I genuinely believe he would have liked to delay the start of train services instead!

Finally, what's in a name? St Pancras International sounds cool I know, but which city is it in? Fine if you are already in London, however it is known everywhere *without * the London prefix, even in cities hundreds of miles away which is meaningless. You wouldnt ask a cab in New York to take you to _New York _Penn station, you would just ask for Penn Station but conversely you wouldnt turn up at say Chicago and expect a train to be posted as running to Penn Station, first and foremost you want and need confirmation that it is going to New York especially if you are a first time traveller and dont speak English. I sincerely hope that the prefix London will return as soon as common sense prevails but I dont hold my breath. The lunatics really have taken over the transport asylum in England. Oh for the day when we are all part of the United States of Europe.


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## Neil_M (Jan 19, 2008)

Lensmeister said:


> BRING BACK KINGS CROSS THAMESLINK !


Hopefully not, squalid little station smelling like a sewer. :blink:


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## Neil_M (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian UK said:


> Oh for the day when we are all part of the United States of Europe.


Kind of agree, but if you go to Gare du Nord in Paris what do you find? Poor signage and separate ticket offices for domestic trains, Eurostar, RER and Metro.......


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## Brian UK (Jan 20, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> Brian UK said:
> 
> 
> > Oh for the day when we are all part of the United States of Europe.
> ...


Good point and you are right! I forgot how the French are as I was thinking more of Netherlands and Germany which do seem to be able to get this kind of thing right, such as Amsterdam Central or Koln Hbf. I am just saying that for £800m it could be better.


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## Sealink (Apr 11, 2008)

Brian UK said:


> Lensmeister said:
> 
> 
> > Ok allow me to be the fly in the ointment as they say.
> ...


I disagree. It's an absolute joy of a station to use.

I'm not sure if you're upset that it cost £800m, because all your complaints are about cosmetic things. Two UK ticket offices? Great! They can issue tickets for anywhere. FCC will happily issue tickets for other companies and vv.

Who is the third operator starting in 2009?

This is the old station: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2145/180902...1da077edb_b.jpg


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## Lensmeister (Apr 11, 2008)

Sealink said:


> I disagree. It's an absolute joy of a station to use. I'm not sure if you're upset that it cost £800m, because all your complaints are about cosmetic things. Two UK ticket offices? Great! They can issue tickets for anywhere. FCC will happily issue tickets for other companies and vv.
> 
> Who is the third operator starting in 2009?


South Eastern Train will run their Javalin services.

I hate it because it's in the back of beyond .... the floor is that annoyin slippery marble like stuff ... in wet weather and in dry it's SLIPPERY .... The place is heaving as it is in the mornin peak .. and when SET start there it'll be a nightmare ....

As for the ticket offices ... when someone I know went in and asked for a ticket they never knew how to issue it !

Least the old St Pancras had traditonal ticket hall .. a marvel wit hthe wood panelling .. now all the ticket offices look like platcis pressfix kits ... utterly bland !

Still we all have an opinion ... mine is I hate it !


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## Sealink (Apr 11, 2008)

Lensmeister said:


> Sealink said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. It's an absolute joy of a station to use. I'm not sure if you're upset that it cost £800m, because all your complaints are about cosmetic things. Two UK ticket offices? Great! They can issue tickets for anywhere. FCC will happily issue tickets for other companies and vv.
> ...


The Thameslink side of the station looks awful, I agree there. And I remember the old ticket office well - it was very quaint.


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