# In San Francisco, Hog a Train Seat and Get a $100 Ticket



## TinCan782 (Apr 18, 2016)

Sounds like BART is cracking down seat hogs or as they call them, "manspreaders".

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/04/in-san-francisco-hog-a-train-seat-and-get-a-100-ticket/478587/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlanticCities+%28CityLab%29


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 18, 2016)

I support the idea but those fines are insanely oversized. $25/$50/$100 would probably be enough to get the message across without creating a massive power imbalance. You want the fee to be big enough to be noticed but not so big that people are hesitant to report and enforce it. You also don't want to create a situation where someone on a power trip or an agency with budget problems have an incentive to cause severe financial pain without recourse.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 18, 2016)

I believe the MTA (New York) already has such a fine in place.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 18, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I support the idea but those fines are insanely oversized. $25/$50/$100 would probably be enough to get the message across without creating a massive power imbalance. You want the fee to be big enough to be noticed but not so big that people are hesitant to report and enforce it. You also don't want to create a situation where someone on a power trip or an agency with budget problems have an incentive to cause severe financial pain without recourse.


Especially the $500 for the third. That's about half the fine for illegally parking in a handicap spot!


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

Should it really be a fine-able offense to place a back pack on a seat?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Should it really be a fine-able offense to place a back pack on a seat?


Absolutely. The fines only come into effect if they refuse to move or revert to their original setup after being asked.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 18, 2016)

If I buy TWO tickets, can I place my backpack on the seat next to me? Cheaper than a fine, right?


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## TinCan782 (Apr 18, 2016)

fairviewroad said:


> If I buy TWO tickets, can I place my backpack on the seat next to me? Cheaper than a fine, right?


Good. Then, they'll claim the ticket has to be for a human,


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## NW cannonball (Apr 19, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Should it really be a fine-able offense to place a back pack on a seat?
> ...


Right-O. If the train is near empty, put your backpack or bag of groceries wherever, no fine.

If there is SRO, and you "spread yourself" and refuse to yield the seat-space -- good to make it official that anti-social J**ass*s and A**ho*s pay a fine. Probably won't help much, but --


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 19, 2016)

It'd be hilarious to see Muni trying to do that - maybe they should charge for fightside seats?


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 25, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I support the idea but those fines are insanely oversized. $25/$50/$100 would probably be enough to get the message across without creating a massive power imbalance. You want the fee to be big enough to be noticed but not so big that people are hesitant to report and enforce it. You also don't want to create a situation where someone on a power trip or an agency with budget problems have an incentive to cause severe financial pain without recourse.



San Francisco is INSANELY expensive to live in.


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## FriskyFL (Apr 27, 2016)

A wood shampoo would be a far more effective deterrent.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2016)

Shawn Ryu said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > I support the idea but those fines are insanely oversized. $25/$50/$100 would probably be enough to get the message across without creating a massive power imbalance. You want the fee to be big enough to be noticed but not so big that people are hesitant to report and enforce it. You also don't want to create a situation where someone on a power trip or an agency with budget problems have an incentive to cause severe financial pain without recourse.
> ...


Many of the people who work in San Francisco or travel through San Francisco don't actually live in San Francisco or make San Francisco sized salaries.


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## Anderson (May 18, 2016)

So...what do they do if/when someone loaded down with luggage produces multiple properly-validated tickets?


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## TiBike (May 21, 2016)

It's a fare gate system, like the DC metro. You either insert a ticket with value loaded on it or touch a permanent card (Clipper) and then go through the gate when it opens. You'd need the assistance of the station agent to ring up multiple fares, and even then I doubt you could do it. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do it.

Going out and coming back in won't do it either - you insert your ticket/touch your card to exit, which subtracts the value and ends your ride. Even if you didn't ride.

I doubt you're going to see many citations issued for this kind of stuff. It seems more like a tool to use to solve particular problems that come up from time to time, rather than effort to enforce a general code of behaviour. It answers, and ends, the argument "where does it say I can't do this?"


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