# Gas prices where you are located?



## CTANut

I live in a part of the US where gas is relatively inexpensive. I filled up today for $3.70 a gallon, using a $0.20 per gallon discount. It cost $73 to fill up my tank. How much is gas where you are at, and what do you pay to fill up your tank? I remember two years ago when gas was $1.09 at that same station. At that time, I could fill up my tank for a little over $20. What was the cheapest gas you saw recently (within the past 5 years)?


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## AmtrakBlue

One gas station that I use went from $4.15/gallon last week to $3.99/gallon this week. I fill up around the 1/2 tank mark and that's been in the low to mid $20's range lately.


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## CTANut

It dropped from $4.09 where I live.


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## Asher

It varies around my neighborhood in So.Cal. $5.89-6.19 per gal. is what I saw yesterday.


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## mcropod

It just broke $2.00 per litre here in my (SE) bit of Oz - I can't tell you what that is in farenheit or bushells, or ounces, or whatever it is you use, but it's up a fair bit from the $1.30 or so I thought was a bit dear.

When I started taking note of prices, I was buying at 6.9 cents per litre, but - to be fair - I was quite a bit younger


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## wildchicken13

mcropod said:


> It just broke $2.00 per litre here in my (SE) bit of Oz - I can't tell you what that is in farenheit or bushells, or ounces, or whatever it is you use, but it's up a fair bit from the $1.30 or so I thought was a bit dear.
> 
> When I started taking note of prices, I was buying at 6.9 cents per litre, but - to be fair - I was quite a bit younger


$5.60/gallon. I assume that by "$" you mean Australian Dollars and not U.S. Dollars? I admit that I had to look up where "Oz" is…


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## daybeers

mcropod said:


> I can't tell you what that is in farenheit or bushells, or ounces, or whatever it is you use


Love this. The measurements we use make no sense.


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## joelkfla

Dropped 25¢ a gallon in 3 days! I'm glad I bought only 5 gals. back then instead of a fill-up.

(It's really only about $1.50 saving, but it still feels like a win.  )


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## flitcraft

Last week it was 5.29 at the gas station across the street from the university main gate. Friday down to 4.99 (and 9/10s!---why was that bizarre pricing ever adopted for gasoline, since we've never had a unit of legal tender that was a tenth of a penny.) Still high enough to make me take public transportation to and from work--my senior ORCA card charges me a dollar a ride including transfers.


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## MARC Rider

On Thursday, I filled the tank for $4.09, which was about 10 cents less than the other gas stations in the area. I think the prices have come down a bit, and they're going to come down more if the Maryland "gas tax holiday" gets enacted. It seems sort of silly for me, as the state gas tax is about 30 cents a gallon, which means that one would only get a $3.00 savings a 10-gallon fill-up, which is a ~$35 purchase. And all that tax money that helps maintain and build roads and transit is forgone. The better thing would have been to give a gas tax credit to people below a certain income for whom the increased gas prices really are a financial burden. The rest of us can afford to suck it up and pay the extra $3.00.

By the way, this was the first time I had paid over $4.00 a gallon since 2008, when I was in Alpine, Texas, and had to fill up my tank after my visit to Big Bend National Park. Gas was pretty cheap in San Antonio, but not in Alpine, which I guess is at the end of the supply chain.


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## JayPea

In my town it's at $4.49, which is what it's been for the last couple of weeks. Our gas here in the state of Washington is a bit higher than some places because taxes on gas here are a bit higher than other places. The most I've paid to fill the tank was around $36.00.


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## Thogo

For diesel we were at 2.38 € per liter (that's almost exactly 10 US$ per gallon) earlier this week - twice as much as it was two years ago. Other gasoline is about 5 cents less. Might have gone down a bit over the week.


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## rodwalsh

CTANut said:


> I live in a part of the US where gas is relatively inexpensive. I filled up today for $3.70 a gallon, using a $0.20 per gallon discount. It cost $73 to fill up my tank. How much is gas where you are at, and what do you pay to fill up your tank? I remember two years ago when gas was $1.09 at that same station. At that time, I could fill up my tank for a little over $20. What was the cheapest gas you saw recently (within the past 5 years)?


We paid $5.31 2 days ago at our SoCal station, regular unleaded gas. I don't recall the cheapest local gas. But we visited my daughter, her husband, and grandsons in Copperas Cove TX Christmas of 2020 and it was $1.87.

BTW, other local stations were at, over, or approaching $6.00 and all were over $6.00 for diesel.


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## Maverickstation

In Boston the price of regular dropped to around $4.15/gallon, with some lower if you check on Gas Buddy.

Luckily, on the days that I don't work from home, I ride the T to and from work, so the affect on our budget has been minimal with the car just used on weekends.

Ken


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## Bob Dylan

MARC Rider said:


> On Thursday, I filled the tank for $4.09, which was about 10 cents less than the other gas stations in the area. I think the prices have come down a bit, and they're going to come down more if the Maryland "gas tax holiday" gets enacted. It seems sort of silly for me, as the state gas tax is about 30 cents a gallon, which means that one would only get a $3.00 savings a 10-gallon fill-up, which is a ~$35 purchase. And all that tax money that helps maintain and build roads and transit is forgone. The better thing would have been to give a gas tax credit to people below a certain income for whom the increased gas prices really are a financial burden. The rest of us can afford to suck it up and pay the extra $3.00.
> 
> By the way, this was the first time I had paid over $4.00 a gallon since 2008, when I was in Alpine, Texas, and had to fill up my tank after my visit to Big Bend National Park. Gas was pretty cheap in San Antonio, but not in Alpine, which I guess is at the end of the supply chain.


Yep, as you know Alpine is a Long Haul from everywhere else, so stuff has to be shipped in via Truck or Train.


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## Bob Dylan

The going price here in Austin for Gas is around $3.89 to $4.00 a Gallon depending on the Location of the Station.

Diesel is quite a bit higher and the City has jacked up Electricity Prices , so charging Electric Vehicles has become pricier too!

Prices have stabilized here as Oil prices have gone down, but haven't decreases here since Tourist Season is in full bloom and the Roads are jammed even more than normal!

Lowest Ivexseen Gas here in the past 5 years was around $1.79 a Gallon.


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## jiml

It has dropped a bit in the past week - now $1.69CAD per litre, so about $5.40USD per US gallon.


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## Bob Dylan

jiml said:


> It has dropped a bit in the past week - now $1.69CAD per litre, so about $5.40USD per US gallon.


California Prices!


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## jiml

Bob Dylan said:


> California Prices!


California taxes.


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## dadonatrain

I saw $5.65 for diesel cash on a truck stop billboard the other day! Luckily I sold my diesel truck and bought a little two seater stick a few years back.

Honestly, though, since I only buy gas when I *need* it, and when I need it the cost of recovering from running out greatly outweighs the cost of whatever I pay to avoid that, I mostly don’t even look at the price at the pump. Doesn’t mean I don’t care!

OTOH, I still remember filling up my dad’s old beater when I was still a teenager in the late 50s and I paid $.19/gallon!


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## AmtrakBlue

dadonatrain said:


> OTOH, I still remember filling up my dad’s old beater when I was still a teenager in the late 50s and I paid $.19/gallon!


What was your dad's salary back in the late 50's?


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## daybeers

AmtrakBlue said:


> What was your dad's salary back in the late 50's?


Not like salaries have kept up with inflation


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## dadonatrain

Fair question, AmtrakBlue! I don’t remember. But I do recall a summer job I had in the mid 60s in a paper mill when the full timer I was helping said that the $2.65/hour he was making was all the money he needed! So we need to keep things In perspective!


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## Devil's Advocate

Nearly every part of the US enjoys cheap petrol compared to other industrialized democracies. Even outliers like California and Hawaii charge prices that are comparable to or slightly below the global average. Where I live prices have not breached $4.00 USD per USG and usually cost around $2.50.


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## gswager

Gas price in my local area range from $4.26 to 4.45. Last month was about $3.44 in my frequent local station. Sadly, most of southern Idaho area get fuel from Salt Lake City while northern Idahoans are bickering at Washington politicians for attempting to charge $0.05 tax per gallon to transport across Washington to Idaho market.


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## west point

At age 6 gasoline was $0199 at Gulf station. Also had a sign Gulf card honored. Could not figure that out Did not even know what a gas credit card was. or even any credit card. AM EX was not in our neck of the woods.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

I do remember when the cheapest grade of Sunoco was $0.28 and buying 25 cents worth of gas one day (around 1969) to put enough in my VW beetle to get to my summer job, being a little short of cash that day.  

Gas has come down a little here in Maine. I paid $4.09 recently and saw it as low as 4.05, that is regular pay not the debit pay. We tend to be a little higher than states around us due to gas tax and the distance to transport fuel here from the refineries.


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## greatwestern

Here in Bristol in the UK price for petrol at my local supermarket today is £1.647 per litre.

That works out at £6.2339 per US gallon which equates to about *$8.10 per US gallon* (and most "local" garages will be charging more than that).

Fortunately my annual mileage by car is only between 3000 and 4000 miles and I am getting about 50 miles per US gallon (60 miles per Imperial gallon) on my longer journeys.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

greatwestern said:


> Here in Bristol in the UK price for petrol at my local supermarket today is £1.647 per litre.
> 
> That works out at £6.2339 per US gallon which equates to about *$8.10 per US gallon* (and most "local" garages will be charging more than that).
> 
> Fortunately my annual mileage by car is only between 3000 and 4000 miles and I am getting about 50 miles per US gallon (60 miles per Imperial gallon) on my longer journeys.


Yes it must seem strange to Europeans the way we whine about $4 gas,
But remember you have good public transport there whereas many places in the US are car dependent and we have to drive much more.


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## Devil's Advocate

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I do remember when the cheapest grade of Sunoco was $0.28 and buying 25 cents worth of gas one day (around 1969) to put enough in my VW beetle to get to my summer job, being a little short of cash that day.


28¢ in 1969 would be around $2.23 today, which is close to what I was paying before Russia attacked Ukraine. The cheapest gas I remember was 89¢ in 1999, or the equivalent of 19¢ back in 1969.



AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Yes it must seem strange to Europeans the way we whine about $4 gas, But remember you have good public transport there whereas many places in the US are car dependent and we have to drive much more.


How does this make such whining any less absurd? Public transportation does not simply build itself and _we_ can only reap what _we_ sow.


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## greatwestern

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Yes it must seem strange to Europeans the way we whine about $4 gas,
> But remember you have good public transport there whereas many places in the US are car dependent and we have to drive much more.


I understand your situation regarding the differences in public transport availability, and accept that I am fortunate in having just a 3 minute walk to my local bus stop.

I can get a (15 minute peak frequency) 25 minute bus journey into my mainline railway station where I can get train services (using connections) to all parts of the country. The downside, however, is that our rail prices can be pretty high - a walk up fare for me to London 120 miles away would cost me as much as an Amtrak coach fare from New York to Chicago but I do appreciate I am not comparing apples to apples.


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## jebr

Most of the stations here in MN hit $3.99 a couple weeks ago and stayed there (but didn't cross the $4 threshold that I saw.) They're starting to come back down now - I saw $3.89 and $3.94 this morning. Costco and similar stations have been cheaper, so sometimes we'll go there if we're nearby or it's an off-peak time.

It seems as though part of the reason gas prices are talked so much about is both because the price fluctuates a fair bit, and it's also the most heavily-advertised price in most people's lives - almost every gas station prominently displays what the price is of gas at that gas station, and there's nothing else that I can think of that advertises the price of something that frequently and that prominently.


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## Joe from PA

I remember riding in a friend's family's new 1954 Buick. At a gas station, his mother asked, "Fifty cents worth, please." (Yes, I'm 80).


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## MARC Rider

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Yes it must seem strange to Europeans the way we whine about $4 gas,
> But remember you have good public transport there whereas many places in the US are car dependent and we have to drive much more.


But there are also many places in Britain and Europe that have lousy public transport. I suspect that the towns are arranged so that even if you have to drive, you don't have to drive so far every day just to do daily errands. I'd like to be able to only have to put 3,000 or 4,000 miles on my car every year.


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## Metra Electric Rider

MARC Rider said:


> But there are also many places in Britain and Europe that have lousy public transport. I suspect that the towns are arranged so that even if you have to drive, you don't have to drive so far every day just to do daily errands. I'd like to be able to only have to put 3,000 or 4,000 miles on my car every year.


That's very true - I lived in a town of around 30k in Sweden. The city bus service shut down in summer when school was out - it was essentially for school kids to get to school. There was a commuter bus service to the next city (around 50k, about 20/25 minutes away - I think that there may be rail now) and infrequent service to rural areas (also mainly school or long distance). And it was a railway town - the trains to Stockholm were bustling. Cycling and walking was easier, however, thanks to sidewalks and trails (usually paved and plowed) that went pretty much everywhere in the suburbs.


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## joelkfla

Yikes! Cheap gas in my neighborhood jumped from $4.04 to $4.47 in less than a week.


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## Joe from PA

In Media, PA our price today is $4.65, Since Delaware is only 9 miles away, I fill my 18 gallon tank down there, which can be as low as $4.29, a savings of $6. per tank.


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## Bob Dylan

joelkfla said:


> Yikes! Cheap gas in my neighborhood jumped from $4.04 to $4.47 in less than a week.


Isn't Capitalism, aka Greed, Wonderful!


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## basketmaker

$3.77 here in Brighton, CO. $2.98 same time last year and $1.64 in 2020.


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## basketmaker

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I do remember when the cheapest grade of Sunoco was $0.28 and buying 25 cents worth of gas one day (around 1969) to put enough in my VW beetle to get to my summer job, being a little short of cash that day.
> 
> Gas has come down a little here in Maine. I paid $4.09 recently and saw it as low as 4.05, that is regular pay not the debit pay. We tend to be a little higher than states around us due to gas tax and the distance to transport fuel here from the refineries.


I remember paying $0.35 for Sunoco 260 for my Fiat 850 in 1970. Cost me $2.80 to fill it when it was on fumes.


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## Devil's Advocate

I came across this video the other day and felt it made some interesting points.


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## Asher

$6.10 for diesel here in So Cal. I don’t / can’t even look at the cost after filling my 35 gallon tank.


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## jebr

I think it's $4.09 here lately. I pay vague attention to it, but at this point I'm gonna pay it anyways so why worry too much about it? We have a econobox so even with the high prices it's rare that the total is over $30, though we usually fill up between 1/2 and 1/4 tank.


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## Devil's Advocate

Regular unleaded was $3.99 last I checked. My commute is short and my conventional midsized sedan averages 32MPG in my real world driving so I'm not too fussed about the price in that sense. That said I hate the smog and smell from petrol and my next car will almost certainly be an electric vehicle of some sort. I hope the core market will start to shift soon. It would be great to buy something similar in size and price with improving economies of scale.


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## MARC Rider

It's about $4.60 here in the Baltimore area. Fortunately, we have a hybrid, and I rarely buy more than 10 gallons for a fill-up. I'm sure glad I bought that hybrid back in 2017.

On my trip to South Carolina the week of April 17, the cost of gas on April 21 when I filled up the rental car prior to returning it was $3.80. Fortunately, I rented a Nissan Sentra which seems to have gas mileage as good as my hybrid SUV (Toyota RAV4 Hybrid).


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## JayPea

$4.75 here in my SE Washington town, up from $4.49 just a week ago. Here in Washington our gas is going to be a little higher as we have no state income tax, so we tax anything else we can. I typically fill up twice a month, and usually when the tank is half full to begin with, so I don't use much gas. I figure the more I pay on items now, the less inheritance tax my heirs will have to pay.


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## chickpea

I have been paying around $4/gal for premium in the Northeast US (varies, sometimes under $4 sometimes maybe $4.25, in NY+MA+VT). I came home to California this week - Bay Area where I grew up - and went to get gas today at Costco. Bearing in mind it is a good discount, I was pretty shocked to pay $5.89/gal for premium (91). Ugh.

I also read somewhere last week that one of the big oil companies - Shell maybe - reported their last quarter profit of $9 billion. So disgusting. (Confirmed Shell, also checked past qtr: "Exxon Mobil doubled profits to $5.48 billion. Chevron lifts profits to $6.2 billion. BP's first quarter profits highest in more than a decade. Shell's first quarter profits set record." Holy cannoli.)


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## Bob Dylan

chickpea said:


> I have been paying around $4/gal for premium in the Northeast US (varies, sometimes under $4 sometimes maybe $4.25, in NY+MA+VT). I came home to California this week - Bay Area where I grew up - and went to get gas today at Costco. Bearing in mind it is a good discount, I was pretty shocked to pay $5.89/gal for premium (91). Ugh.
> 
> I also read somewhere last week that one of the big oil companies - Shell maybe - reported their last quarter profit of $9 billion. So disgusting. (Confirmed Shell, also checked past qtr: "Exxon Mobil doubled profits to $5.48 billion. Chevron lifts profits to $6.2 billion. BP's first quarter profits highest in more than a decade. Shell's first quarter profits set record." Holy cannoli.)


Actual numbers that prove my Post #38 about Greed is indeed True!


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## como

$4.12 in Mid-Missouri.


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## jiml

We hit $2.00/litre today. Since there are basically 4 litres in a US gallon, with the dollar conversion that's around $6.20USD/gallon. A lot of that is tax of course, and we're about the middle of the pack when it comes to Canadian provinces. Diesel averages around 15% higher.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Bob Dylan said:


> Isn't Capitalism, aka Greed, Wonderful!


While it is tempting to blame increased fuel prices on greed ( and the loss of Russian supplies due to the embargo) and certainly the oil companies seem to be doing well (although they are involved in lots of markets besides fuel production and sale) we shouldn't forget that it has been a deliberate policy to discourage domestic production as a way to encourage development of renewable energy. If you wanted the "green new deal" well you are getting what you wished for.


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## Bob Dylan

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> While it is tempting to blame increased fuel prices on greed ( and the loss of Russian supplies due to the embargo) and certainly the oil companies seem to be doing well (although they are involved in lots of markets besides fuel production and sale) we shouldn't forget that it has been a deliberate policy to discourage domestic production as a way to encourage development of renewable energy. If you wanted the "green new deal" well you are getting what you wished for.


Please read the Post about Record Profits for American Oil Companies.
I hope you'll agree that this is due to Greed, not a failure to produce more Domestic Oil, Which is another Catagory for discussion.


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## Devil's Advocate

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> While it is tempting to blame increased fuel prices on greed ( and the loss of Russian supplies due to the embargo) and certainly the oil companies seem to be doing well (although they are involved in lots of markets besides fuel production and sale) we shouldn't forget that it has been a deliberate policy to discourage domestic production as a way to encourage development of renewable energy. If you wanted the "green new deal" well you are getting what you wished for.


(1) Russian oil is a non-factor in the US and is still sold to India and China, (2) in the American market renewables rarely compete with petrol products, (3) the US has some of the lowest taxes on petrol products in the developed world, (4) oil companies are making record profits _from selling oil-based products_, and (5) the Green New Deal never passed. That leaves your post 0-5 but thanks for playing.


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## Skyline

$4.05 for regular is the cheapest this week in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, up from about $3.85 recently. The high point was $4.19. Under consideration is a temporary tax reduction.


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## west point

Buy in Georgia if traveling. State tax per gallon suspended. 7% sales tax still on. $3.79 SW of ATL.


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## Bob Dylan

jiml said:


> We hit $2.00/litre today. Since there are basically 4 litres in a US gallon, with the dollar conversion that's around $6.20USD/gallon. A lot of that is tax of course, and we're about the middle of the pack when it comes to Canadian provinces. Diesel averages around 15% higher.


 At least you pay with Loonies and not American Dollars!


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## McIntyre2K7

It's $4.49 for regular here and $5.59 for Diesel at the gas station down the street from my house. However the gas station (WAWA) has a promotion going on where if you pay using their app, you get 15 cents off a gallon between now and June 12th. 

With everyone coming down to Tampa (to live and visit), I don't see the gas prices going down anytime soon since everyone has to drive to get around. If the area had good public transit, maybe prices would have dropped.


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## tomfuller

When I drove to LaPine Oregon yesterday morning, the price at the Shell station in Crescent was $4.999 for regular. I got $20 in LaPine at $4.699 which brought the tank up to half. Then I returned to Crescent, the price was up to $5.099 for regular. Diesel has been over $5.20/gallon for more than a month now in Oregon.


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## gswager

Just filled up gas at $4.39 per gallon at Costco in southern Idaho.


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## Bob Dylan

Gas here in Austin is running between $3.999 and $4.19 per Gallon depending on what Brand and what Location one buys from.

Diesel is over $5 a Gallon everywhere with a High of $5.69 I've seen.

Prices are going up Daily and people are starting to top off daily which is causing lines like the bad Ole Gas Shortages of the 1970s!!!


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## flitcraft

Prices at the station across the street from my university jumped 50 cents to 5.49 a gallon this week. Can't point to a reason why, since crude oil prices drifted down a little. Wait till school gets out in June--it'll be crazy, I think. Or rather, crazier...


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## gswager

Yup, summer is coming- travel season so the demand would be high if the economy doesn't affect them greatly.


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## Willbridge

As a veteran of gas shortages and price fluctuations I found this thread to be interesting. From these experiences I've learned that:

the low price during an economic downturn is considered by customers to be the normal price later on.
mass media usually do not correct historical comparisons for inflation.
price rises eventually provoke political grandstanding.
when an adequate supply (i.e., no gas station outages) exists, prices only increase to a level where customers start to take sensible actions to save money. Then prices hit a plateau. When this started, I predicted that the plateau would be US$4 a gallon (California is a special case.)
the only way that it will sharply increase further is if supplies are interrupted. In that case, the market goes nuts, hoarding sets in, and crazy behavior like the guy filling his pick-up bed with gasoline sets in. Then the State Fire Marshall gets his or her 15 minutes of fame.
the use of credit for gasoline and Diesel purchases results in a time lag before customers begin making adjustments.
unfortunately, customers who feel forced onto transit or rail travel are a surly bunch. and look for things to complain about. As schedules are written for average loads, buses in particular tend to run late when there is an unplanned boom in ridership.
A user-friendly chart showing average annual U.S. gas prices and also the inflation-adjusted prices.

Historical Gas Prices By Year: What Affects Them [1978-2022] (axlewise.com)


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## Willbridge

Metra Electric Rider said:


> That's very true - I lived in a town of around 30k in Sweden. The city bus service shut down in summer when school was out - it was essentially for school kids to get to school. There was a commuter bus service to the next city (around 50k, about 20/25 minutes away - I think that there may be rail now) and infrequent service to rural areas (also mainly school or long distance). And it was a railway town - the trains to Stockholm were bustling. Cycling and walking was easier, however, thanks to sidewalks and trails (usually paved and plowed) that went pretty much everywhere in the suburbs.


Some of the North American perception of really great European transit service is because we're using the systems for different purposes. Many of the suburbs have little interest for tourists. A few years ago I went out to Hönow, a suburb of Berlin, by riding the U5 and found the biggest bicycle park-n-ride that I had ever seen, probably built when this was part of the GDR. It was little used. I walked to the interesting village center. A suburban bus was an alternative, but it only ran every two hours. After a look around I walked back across the city limits to the excellent transit service.

The suburban buses are better patronized than their U.S. counterparts, partly due to the school ridership mentioned above and the price of gasoline (and the subsidized price of Diesel in the bad old days).

Here's a sample of 2002 prices per liter in Berlin, when the U.S. average was $1.44 per gallon.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Devil's Advocate said:


> (1) Russian oil is a non-factor in the US and is still sold to India and China,


I only mentioned Russian oil and an aside. Even if we don't import Russian oil, its non availability certainly affects the world price and this the price we pay as supplies overall are tightened.



Devil's Advocate said:


> (2) in the American market renewables rarely compete with petrol products,


I thought the whole point of promoting renewables was to reduce demand for petroleum products? I guess I'm missing something here.



Devil's Advocate said:


> (3) the US has some of the lowest taxes on petrol products in the developed world,


No argument here but this has little to do with the point I was making. Politicians know that proposing an increase in fuel taxes is a third rail, like privatizing Social Security.



Devil's Advocate said:


> (4) oil companies are making record profits _from selling oil-based products_,


I wonder at what point increased profits goes from being a sign of good management and becomes "greed". Seems somewhat subjective.



Devil's Advocate said:


> and (5) the Green New Deal never passed. That leaves your post 0-5 but thanks for playing.


Just because the GND never passed doesn't mean that administration policy, which appears to lean toward placating the "Greens" in the party, isn't trying to move in those directions e.g. cancelling the Keystone pipeline, discouraging new oil exploration, etc.


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## Metra Electric Rider

Willbridge said:


> Some of the North American perception of really great European transit service is because we're using the systems for different purposes. Many of the suburbs have little interest for tourists. A few years ago I went out to Hönow, a suburb of Berlin, by riding the U5 and found the biggest bicycle park-n-ride that I had ever seen, probably built when this was part of the GDR. It was little used. I walked to the interesting village center. A suburban bus was an alternative, but it only ran every two hours. After a look around I walked back across the city limits to the excellent transit service.
> 
> The suburban buses are better patronized than their U.S. counterparts, partly due to the school ridership mentioned above and the price of gasoline (and the subsidized price of Diesel in the bad old days).



Very true - as sort of an off topic tidbit or aside, Sweden shut down most of their streetcar systems in Octobre '67 with the switch to right hand driving (only two cities kept theirs along with the remnants in Stockholm). Norway has been opening and closing the two systems outside of Oslo on and off for years.


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## MARC Rider

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I thought the whole point of promoting renewables was to reduce demand for petroleum products? I guess I'm missing something here.
> 
> Just because the GND never passed doesn't mean that administration policy, which appears to lean toward placating the "Greens" in the party, isn't trying to move in those directions e.g. cancelling the Keystone pipeline, discouraging new oil exploration, etc.



In the transportation sector, petroleum replacement is a long-term project. Not only do battery electric cars need to come down in price to be affordable to the masses, but charging infrastructure needs to be built out, too. This is all happening, but it's not there yet. 

I'm also not sure what government policies have been enacted over the past two years that have discouraged petroleum production. And more oil exploration is not any sort of panacea, as the easiest to find and cheapest petroleum has already been discovered, so any new discoveries will only be economic to produce at high prices of gasoline and other petroleum products. And the Keystone Pipeline is irrelevant, as it was just going to ship cruddy Tar Sands goop down to Louisiana for refining and export.


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## flitcraft

wonder at what point increased profits goes from being a sign of good management and becomes "greed". Seems somewhat subjective.

Well, when commodities are in short supply because of wartime, we tend to call increased profits "profiteering." Seems the shoe fits here...


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## slasher-fun

Willbridge said:


> Here's a sample of 2002 prices per liter in Berlin, when the U.S. average was $1.44 per gallon.
> 
> View attachment 28422


Currently ~2.10€/L, that's 8.29$/gallon.

EDIT: not sure about how that is in the US, but in Europe gas prices are displayed with all taxes included.


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## MARC Rider

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I wonder at what point increased profits goes from being a sign of good management and becomes "greed". Seems somewhat subjective.


Well, in government contracting world, they actually had a method for calculating allowable profits. I had to study it, even though I wasn't involved in such calculations (I was what was known as a "contracting officer's representative," at a contracting officer, which is the technical manager of the contract, the terms of which had previously been negotiated by the actual contracting officers.) It's pretty arcane, but I don't think it ever exceeded 8% of the costs. This sort of thing is mostly used in cost-plus contracts, in which the contractor takes virtually no risk. Of course, the total costs include labor costs loaded with overhead, so there are ways for the contractor to get more gravy out of the contract than the calculated "profits." Fortunately, our contractor didn't also charge outlandish items to the project costs, the sort of thing that is apparently more common in some military contracts.

I suspect that the oil companies will claim that they're taking risks, and that high profits at one end offset losses at other times, though I think they have the market sewn up so well that the risks are very well controlled. Anyway, I haven't seen a major oil company go belly-up in a long time, if ever. Another thing to keep in mind is that the production and sales of gasoline isn't 100% vertically integrated. The big oil companies I believe drill, pump, and refine the stuff, but the distribution is independent and so are the retail outlets. So there's other places where profiteering can be happening outside of the big oil companies.


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## SwedeC

One thing regarding big oil taking risks. We could be having lower prices in the future but those who drill and those who build refineries are scared crap-less over what this changeable administration might do. 

If I put in a few billion to build a new refinery I want assurance that I'll be allowed to use it, not have it yanked out from under me.


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## Asher

Just this eve, $6.29 per gallon for the cheapest gas. Hawthorne Ca. Ridiculous.


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## west point

Suspect that it is trading back and forth raising the price of oil each time. House of cards will collapse sooner or later.


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## Tk48states

Oil is a worldwide commodity and price is mainly governed by laws of supply and demand, while governments can intervene to manipulate prices availability and use eventually determines costs. Interesting to note ask anybody in US the current S&P index number and few will know the answer, ask current price of gasoline and anybody with a car will know.


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## Metra Electric Rider

It's been my understanding that there have been petroleum leases on Federal land that have gone unleased - and that some new ones have been released recently. My assumption is that they were unleased because of the cost of extraction vs oil price.


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## west point

west point said:


> Buy in Georgia if traveling. State tax per gallon suspended. 7% sales tax still on. $3.79 SW of ATL.


South of ATL just had a big increase. Now $4.099.


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## Bob Dylan

Prices went up 20 cents a Gallon here in Austin today!

The range seems to be $4.19-4.$59 per Gallon ( Regular)depending on the Station and the Location.


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## chickpea

Well that was short-lived. I paid under $6 in CA and now there is no station around for less than $6/gallon and though I haven't seen $7 yet, I have to say that was QUITE the jump in the past week+. Greedy oil companies just going nuts. Lucky you if you are a shareholder, I suppose.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

chickpea said:


> Well that was short-lived. I paid under $6 in CA and now there is no station around for less than $6/gallon and though I haven't seen $7 yet, I have to say that was QUITE the jump in the past week+. Greedy oil companies just going nuts. Lucky you if you are a shareholder, I suppose.


If it was strictly just greed that would be a spectacularly poor way to run a business. Sooner or later someone would lower their prices and corner the market. Moving beyond the usual talking points, we have a tight global supply market due to world supplies being reduced by the loss of Russian oil, the increase in demand due to the winding down of the COVID shutdowns, and the general uncertainty. Add to that the administration's desire to reduce domestic oil supplies to jump start use of renewable energy and you have a formula for what we see now price wise.


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## Bob Dylan

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> If it was strictly just greed that would be a spectacularly poor way to run a business. Sooner or later someone would lower their prices and corner the market. Moving beyond the usual talking points, we have a tight global supply market due to world supplies being reduced by the loss of Russian oil, the increase in demand due to the winding down of the COVID shutdowns, and the general uncertainty. Add to that the administration's desire to reduce domestic oil supplies to jump start use of renewable energy and you have a formula for what we see now price wise.


The part about reduced domestic oil supplies is not valid, the US has a huge supply of Reseve Oil and Gas, and the statement about "Uncertainty" is another word for Greed on the part of the Speculators!

The Gasoline that is being Sold now has been refined and stored in tanks for several Months, so it's not costing Oil Companies anything extra, they just raise the price to Retailers and Wholesalers to enhance Profits, aka Greed!

You could look it up, don't take Politicial Talking Points and Mediia Pundits words @ Face Value.


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## MARC Rider

Bob Dylan said:


> The part about reduced domestic oil supplies is not valid, the US has a huge supply of Reseve Oil and Gas, and the statement about uncertainty is another word for Greed on the part of the Speculators!
> 
> You could look it up, don't take Politicial Talking Points and Mediia Pundits words @ Face Value.


It's pretty typical in these cases of price spikes (not just gasoline) the price spikes very quickly, even more quickly than the trigger can increase the cost to the sellers. This suggests greed, as the stuff being sold during and immediately after the spike, is from current inventory, which was obtained at the lower costs that prevailed before the triggering event. Then, moving forward, when the situation changes and the costs get lower, it seems that it takes forever for prices to drop, which suggests that the sellers are selling lower cost product at the higher price for as long as they can. That also suggests greed on the part of the sellers. Now, who is greedy may be hard to determine -- it could be the major petroleum companies, independent refiners, distributors, or the retailers, or all of them.


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## Bob Dylan

MARC Rider said:


> It's pretty typical in these cases of price spikes (not just gasoline) the price spikes very quickly, even more quickly than the trigger can increase the cost to the sellers. This suggests greed, as the stuff being sold during and immediately after the spike, is from current inventory, which was obtained at the lower costs that prevailed before the triggering event. Then, moving forward, when the situation changes and the costs get lower, it seems that it takes forever for prices to drop, which suggests that the sellers are selling lower cost product at the higher price for as long as they can. That also suggests greed on the part of the sellers. Now, who is greedy may be hard to determine -- it could be the major petroleum companies, independent refiners, distributors, or the retailers, or all of them.


My Vote goes to " ALL".


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## TheVig

I'm in Charlotte. This afternoon I noticed prices anywhere from $4.32 to $4.39 for regular.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Bob Dylan said:


> You could look it up, don't take Politicial Talking Points and Mediia Pundits words @ Face Value.


Yes and that cuts both ways .

It wouldn't surprise me if all this talk of greed is preparing us for price controls, which will mean hello gas lines. Welcome to 1973!


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## MARC Rider

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Yes and that cuts both ways .
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if all this talk of greed is preparing us for price controls, which will mean hello gas lines. Welcome to 1973!


What are you talking about? I lived through 1973, and I don't remember any price controls on gasoline.


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## Bob Dylan

MARC Rider said:


> What are you talking about? I lived through 1973, and I don't remember any price controls on gasoline.


Yep, Lines, Rationed Gas by Stations and Higher Prices, but I don't recall any Government Price Controls either.


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## Willbridge

Bob Dylan said:


> Yep, Lines, Rationed Gas by Stations and Higher Prices, but I don't recall any Government Price Controls either.


I worked in transport jobs through the 1972-75 Energy Crisis and it was triggered by price controls. The actual rationing was done by the oil companies, based on the previous year's orders. This was a quick solution but resulted in bizarre distortions. During my time with the Gray Line of Portland as Dispatcher I had lots of Diesel because in the previous year they had lost a big contract. Our company president was bootlegging fuel to truck companies. Other charter operators were turning away business.

Oregon, where I worked with the state DOT, was particularly hard hit by this method of rationing. It had no refineries and in the previous year the oil companies had put numerous independent stations out of business. Therefore, Oregon's ration was less. At the same time there was a hydro power shortage and a natural gas shortage.

When we moved to San Francisco it was hard hearing the whining from Californians about how they were suffering.

Some good came out of it. The _Cascades, _the _Pioneer, _Portland Light Rail, the Eugene-Springfield BRT, Portland Union Station, state-organized Amtrak Thruway service all were pushed forward by the experience of discovering how foolish it was to depend entirely on one mode. The State of Washington began looking into rail alternatives and in California I think this was a factor in saving the _San Joaquin _and developing it_._


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Bob Dylan said:


> Yep, Lines, Rationed Gas by Stations and Higher Prices, but I don't recall any Government Price Controls either.


The point is, the effects would be the same, even if 1963 didn't have government imposed price controls.


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