# No Acela Value Fares after 10/15?



## TCP (Aug 26, 2018)

Has anyone else noticed no Value fares after 10/15 on acela service? is this a new policy?


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## Acela150 (Aug 26, 2018)

Value fare sale ends the 31st. That’s why.


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## Acela150 (Aug 26, 2018)

Scratch that. Did a test booking for February and Value fares were available.


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2018)

2151 shows no Value at all after 10/15 (from bos to nyc)

and was it a sale? I have been riding that rain for over 1 year and value fares were always availabe


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

I'm seeing Value fares on #2151 well past 10/15. I don't know what you're seeing.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

I am confused.

Are you talking about VALUE fares or SAVER fares? Value fares are regular price while Saver fares are % off the Value fare.


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> I am confused.
> 
> Are you talking about VALUE fares or SAVER fares? Value fares are regular price while Saver fares are % off the Value fare.


It doesn't even make much difference, since I'm seeing both of them well past 10/15...


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## Tcp (Aug 26, 2018)

Cant be true- I called guest rewards and they see the same thing. No value fares on the Monday am 2151


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2018)

Perhaps they've sold out of the saver and value fares for the dates you're looking at. Or that train is so popular so they don't need to offer lower cost seats.



> Value Fares availability is limited.


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## pennyk (Aug 26, 2018)

It appears that early Monday morning is a very popular time to travel from BOS to NYP. It also appears that there are some Value fares on 2153, the next Acela out of BOS.

As stated above, it is possible that Value seats are not offered, or alternatively, the value seats are sold out months in advance.

I do not know which trains have assigned seating, or will have assigned seating in the near future. Possibly the Value seats have been taken out of inventory in order to program the reservation system to permit assigned seating. (just a guess).


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

Tcp said:


> Cant be true- I called guest rewards and they see the same thing. No value fares on the Monday am 2151


Interesting. It looks like starting on 10/22, neither Saver nor Value fares are available on any Monday #2151. This does not seem to be the case any other day of the week.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

As stated above, early Monday morning trains are usually very busy. Perhaps those lower fares are sold out.


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> As stated above, early Monday morning trains are usually very busy. Perhaps those lower fares are sold out.


Considering that both Saver and Value fares are unavailable every Monday for months, starting almost two months from now, and that this is not the case on virtually any other day, I highly doubt that those fares are just sold out.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > As stated above, early Monday morning trains are usually very busy. Perhaps those lower fares are sold out.
> ...


Since it's a popular train, see how much the 1st class seats are, then it's likely they're not even offering the saver / value fares. They don't need to.


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

Seems like it. Value and Saver fares are unavailable on every single Monday #2151 from October 22nd until 11 months from now, after which you can't book altogether. I really doubt that those fares are just "sold out" in *July of next year*. That's the only possible explanation.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Seems like it. Value and Saver fares are unavailable on every single Monday #2151 from October 22nd until 11 months from now, after which you can't book altogether. I really doubt that those fares are just "sold out" in *July of next year*. That's the only possible explanation.


Did you really check every Monday from Oct to July? *smh*


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

AmtrakBlue said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like it. Value and Saver fares are unavailable on every single Monday #2151 from October 22nd until 11 months from now, after which you can't book altogether. I really doubt that those fares are just "sold out" in *July of next year*. That's the only possible explanation.
> ...


Yup.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

Did you also look at other trains that day?






As said, if they expect to get higher paying fares on a certain train, why offer a lower fare? Just because they may say something like $59 from BOS-NYP, but they know that specific train will be full anyway, why offer the $59 fare on the 6 am Monday morning train that will be full? Why not just start at a $119 fare, and if it is not selling lower it?

They do the same thing with popular trains. The fare on the EB at 11 months out may be the 2nd or 3rd bucket, but at 8 months you may find it is low bucket.

It is called inventory management.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

Not being a NEC rider, I thought Acela's only had first class and business class so I would not expect value or saver fares which I thought applied only to regular coach seats which are available on the Northeast Regionals but not the Acela's.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2018)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> Not being a NEC rider, I thought Acela's only had first class and business class so I would not expect value or saver fares which I thought applied only to regular coach seats which are available on the Northeast Regionals but not the Acela's.


Business Class on Acela is basically coach class.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

Although it is not the same, Business Class on Acela is like coach on a regular train with the upgrade being to Acela First.


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Did you also look at other trains that day?


Yep. #2151 is the only one.



the_traveler said:


> As said, if they expect to get higher paying fares on a certain train, why offer a lower fare? Just because they may say something like $59 from BOS-NYP, but they know that specific train will be full anyway, why offer the $59 fare on the 6 am Monday morning train that will be full? Why not just start at a $119 fare, and if it is not selling lower it?
> 
> They do the same thing with popular trains. The fare on the EB at 11 months out may be the 2nd or 3rd bucket, but at 8 months you may find it is low bucket.
> 
> It is called inventory management.


I understand all of that. I wasn't disagreeing with her. Sorry if it came off like I was.


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## cpotisch (Aug 26, 2018)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Not being a NEC rider, I thought Acela's only had first class and business class so I would not expect value or saver fares which I thought applied only to regular coach seats which are available on the Northeast Regionals but not the Acela's.
> ...


Remind me, can someone with an Acela "business class" ticket buy a station lounge pass, or is that just for passengers traveling in actual business class? If it's the former, I guess that would make one very small way that Acela business isn't exactly coach.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 26, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Remind me, can someone with an Acela "business class" ticket buy a station lounge pass, or is that just for passengers traveling in actual business class? If it's the former, I guess that would make one very small way that Acela business isn't exactly coach.


Yes, Acela Business can buy entry to Club Acela in Washington, Philadelphia and (when it reopens) Boston. Not for New York.


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## AG1 (Aug 26, 2018)

Acela Business Class has considerable more leg room than coach on the Regionals. It is not the same as coach as some have stated !


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> It is called inventory management.


Modern inventory management is usually dynamic in nature and highly variable. This sounds more like blunt force price setting to me.



AG1 said:


> Acela Business Class has considerable more leg room than coach on the Regionals. It is not the same as coach as some have stated!


Acela's "Business Class" product would be called "Premium Economy" anywhere other than Amtrak.


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

AG1 said:


> Acela Business Class has considerable more leg room than coach on the Regionals. It is not the same as coach as some have stated !


Yeah, it's sort if its own thing. It's Acela's coach, but not exactly comparable to "regular coach" on the other trains.


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## AG1 (Aug 27, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> AG1 said:
> 
> 
> > Acela Business Class has considerable more leg room than coach on the Regionals. It is not the same as coach as some have stated !
> ...


It is Acela Business Class with business class seats, business class curtains, and business class leg room.


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## PVD (Aug 27, 2018)

Consider that the whole Acela program is geared towards the business traveler, also, at the time when the Acela tiers were named, the term "premium economy" was not in wide use, if at all.


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## Acela150 (Aug 27, 2018)

PRR 60 said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Remind me, can someone with an Acela "business class" ticket buy a station lounge pass, or is that just for passengers traveling in actual business class? If it's the former, I guess that would make one very small way that Acela business isn't exactly coach.
> ...


I don't think that the Lounge in DC is a lounge that has a $20 day pass. I know PHL and BOS are and NYP you're lucky to find a seat during the rush hour.


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## Acela150 (Aug 27, 2018)

Also to clear up the confusion of Value and Saver fares..

Saver fares are the 25% off fares that are Non Refundable.

Value is the fare after the Saver Fares sell out.

Flexible Fares are the top bucket.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 27, 2018)

PVD said:


> Consider that the whole Acela program is geared towards the business traveler, also, at the time when the Acela tiers were named, the term "premium economy" was not in wide use, if at all.


Premium Economy is a general term for several similar offerings first made available in the mid-1990's. The introduction of Acela was around the same time frame that MRTC came to AA via absorption and expansion of TWA's Comfort Class. MRTC begat Economy Plus, which begat Comfort Plus, which begat Main Cabin Extra, and so on. This is not intended to contradict your post's premise but here in 2018 I believe that most of Amtrak's Business Class offerings would be more accurately termed Premium Economy.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2018)

Acela150 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


Indeed. Quoting from the Club Acela section of https://www.amtrak.com/station-lounges



> All Business Class passengers can purchase daily access passes for the ClubAcela locations at Philadelphia - 30th Street Station and Boston - South Station* for $20.00 per day. Speak with a uniformed employee at the station for more information.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 27, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> AG1 said:
> 
> 
> > Acela Business Class has considerable more leg room than coach on the Regionals. It is not the same as coach as some have stated !
> ...



If you accept that Acela does not have a "coach" class, then you have no problem understanding that Acela Business Class is actually business class! And Acela Business Class seats, etc, are better than the Northeast Regionals business class.


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

Acela150 said:


> Also to clear up the confusion of Value and Saver fares..
> 
> Saver fares are the 25% off fares that are Non Refundable.
> 
> ...


Actually Premium and/or Business are the top buckets.


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## Acela150 (Aug 27, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Also to clear up the confusion of Value and Saver fares..
> ...


Right. Sorry I should have mentioned that I was referring to coach fares. Or in Acela tickets Business Class.


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## the_traveler (Aug 27, 2018)

Actually premium usually refers to rooms, which have their own separate buckets. You could have coach in the high bucket, and under premium have roomettes in the 3rd bucket and also under premium have bedrooms as low bucket.


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## CAMISSY55 (Aug 27, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Actually premium usually refers to rooms, which have their own separate buckets. You could have coach in the high bucket, and under premium have roomettes in the 3rd bucket and also under premium have bedrooms as low bucket.


All true, but very confusing to a newbie!


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Actually premium usually refers to rooms, which have their own separate buckets. You could have coach in the high bucket, and under premium have roomettes in the 3rd bucket and also under premium have bedrooms as low bucket.


True. The only case where coach would fall under Premium is if you choose coach as part of a connecting ticket that includes either Acela First or a sleeping accomodation. Otherwise, it's Saver, Value, or Flex.


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

Acela150 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


You're right. Neither NYP nor WAS offer lounge passes.


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## cpotisch (Aug 28, 2018)

AG1 said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > AG1 said:
> ...


There's actually significantly less legroom in Acela "business class" than you get in business class on a Regional. There are have nicer seats and a more modern design than Regional coach, but that really only stems from the fact that the Acela train sets are exclusive to Acela and were built 20+ years later. It's definitely nicer than coach on the other trains, but it isn't really a "proper" business class.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2018)

This train is super important to many commuters and always had a 100-120 fare available...looks like Amtrak trying to gouge its customer base. Hope it doesnt happen to your preferred route!!!


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## the_traveler (Aug 28, 2018)

I do not see it as gouging their customers. I see it as trying to get the most fare that the customer will pay to be on that specific train.

If someone wants or needs to be on the 6:00 train, and is willing to pay more, why should Amtrak offer a lower fare on the 6:00 train?




If they really want a lower fare, they can always chose to leave on the 6:30 or 7:00 train.

I live in a resort area that does most of their business between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Should the hotel rates be the same in January, April or October when far less people travel than in July when many people take vacations?



They can chose to vacation in April!


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## cpotisch (Aug 29, 2018)

Guest said:


> This train is super important to many commuters and always had a 100-120 fare available...looks like Amtrak trying to gouge its customer base. Hope it doesnt happen to your preferred route!!!


They're not offering Saver or Value fares on literally one early morning train, and it's only on Mondays. The term "gouge" seems a bit harsh.


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## PVD (Aug 29, 2018)

Why would someone offer a lower level fare if they could sell the same seat at regular price?


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## cpotisch (Aug 29, 2018)

PVD said:


> Why would someone offer a lower level fare if they could sell the same seat at regular price?


Exactly. And again, we're talking about one early morning train one day a week. If you can't handle the higher fare, either go with a later train or don't take Acela for your Monday commute.


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## PVD (Aug 29, 2018)

or earlier NER if available.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2018)

Its the only early morning train that gets you to nyc by 9. NEC is more a utility than anything else- you dont see the nyc MTA charging $5 because people depend on them


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## PVD (Aug 30, 2018)

Time of day pricing and peak demand charges are a major part of many utility pricing structures. They do it on the bridges and tunnels , the political will is not there for the subways. LIRR and MNRR certainly charge way more peak than off peak.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2018)

But this is not peak vs off peak...this is just one train on one day


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2018)

Net- it will be interesting to see if Amtrak hold the line or changes the fare back to 115


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## cpotisch (Aug 30, 2018)

Guest said:


> But this is not peak vs off peak...this is just one train on one day


Yeah, one train on one day. It's supply and demand. If people are willing to pay higher prices on that train, why offer the lower ones? The MTA is different since it has one fare for all trains and they don't have to cover their costs.


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## the_traveler (Aug 30, 2018)

Guest said:


> Its the only early morning train that gets you to nyc by 9. NEC is more a utility than anything else- you dont see the nyc MTA charging $5 because people depend on them


Actually you could leave the night before at 9:30 pm and get to NYP at 2 am. That gets you there before 9 am, so you do have a choice to get there before 9 am.

Thus you have a choice for a lower fare. If you do not want to chose it, there is your supply and demand.

It would be more inclined to so called price gouging if it were not offered on Wednesday or Friday trains, but it is. So I see it as supply and demand.


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## jebr (Aug 30, 2018)

1. I'd certainly love to live on a route that has so much selection that even if my preferred train run spikes in price, I could choose one that arrives only an hour later.

2. Every stop from New London, CT south to New York City has commuter rail (or commuter bus to commuter rail, due to track work) that will get them into NYC (Grand Central Terminal) by 9 AM. It may be a bit longer, but that's a choice someone has to make. If someone's commuting on a regular basis from Rhode Island or Massachusetts to New York City, and has that hard/early of a deadline to meet, and is having to pay for it out of their own pocket (versus having the company expense it,) perhaps it's necessary to consider an alternate commute if the higher fare makes the commute non-worthwhile. There's also a Megabus and Greyhound schedule that, while leaves earlier from Boston, does arrive by 9 AM into New York.

If Amtrak doesn't get the ticket sales it expects at the higher price, they'll likely lower the price to attract riders back on board. However, I'm struggling to see the vitality of this specific schedule to the traditional sense of someone commuting to work.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2018)

Cpotisch- amtrack doesnt over its cost either- gets over 1 bill in fed funding

Jebr- there are lots of flolks on the routes that spend 2-4 nights per week in nyc...which lends credence to the demand of that one am train


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2018)

Udpate- Amtrak retuned the Monday 2125 fare back to the normal $115...guess it wasn't a fruitful experiment and killed demand


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