# Changes to Accepted Forms of Payment



## MrEd (Sep 2, 2010)

Changes to Accepted Forms of Payment

Beginning on September 1, 2010, money orders and travelers checks will no longer be accepted as payment for Amtrak products or services.

The following forms of payment are currently accepted by Amtrak:

U.S. Currency: Canadian paper currency is accepted aboard trains that cross the U.S. - Canada border. Credit and Debit Cards: Any payment card must be a branded card featuring a Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover or Universal Air Travel logo.

Forms of payment not accepted by Amtrak include:

Non-U.S. Currency Cashier's Checks Money Orders Travel Vouchers Personal Checks (except for group travel payment) Travel Checks Payment Cards Requiring a PIN

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1248541991055


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## LA Resident (Sep 2, 2010)

MrEd said:


> Changes to Accepted Forms of Payment
> 
> Beginning on September 1, 2010, money orders and travelers checks will no longer be accepted as payment for Amtrak products or services.
> 
> ...


Don't debit cards all require the use of a PIN? So if Amtrak does not accept cards requiring a PIN, how does it then accept debit cards?

In a larger sense, this is sure to trip up foreign passengers who either have traveler's checks or a card missing the approved logos.

Sure is a long way from the time Karl Malden was Mr. Universal Traveler promoting AMEX: "Don't Leave Home Without It!" Now it's "The Train Will Leave without You if You Use It!"


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## Acela150 (Sep 2, 2010)

Debit cards can also be run as credit cards.


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## AlanB (Sep 2, 2010)

Acela150 said:


> Debit cards can also be run as credit cards.


Most debit cards also function as a credit card, but not all do. It must have a Visa or MC logo on the card to work as a credit card.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> In a larger sense, this is sure to trip up foreign passengers who either have traveler's checks or a card missing the approved logos.


I doubt it will inconvenience many foreigners. Maybe just some old people who refuse to listen to their kids or don't have anybody to show them the modern ways. Travelers checks are pretty much dead these days anyway. Then there is the logos: Visa and MasterCard are pretty much universal.


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## FriskyFL (Sep 3, 2010)

If a debit card bears a Visa, MasterCard, Discover, or American Express logo, it can be accepted and processed via the same authorization and clearing system as a credit card, hence the slightly misleading term "run as a credit". The transaction is still considered a debit card transaction, it's simply making use of the same processing platforms used to authorize and clear "credit" card transactions. This ensures global acceptance as your Visa, MC, etc branded debit card is accepted anywhere you see the card logos displayed.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 3, 2010)

LA Resident said:


> Don't debit cards all require the use of a PIN?


As stated, depending on how your financial institution setup your account you can sometimes use debit cards as though they were a credit card. However, there is typically a substantial *increase* in authorization costs associated with credit processing over debit processing, regardless of which source card is being used. It's possible Amtrak has addressed this with their merchant contract, but looking at their history I somewhat doubt that. In fact their routine cutting of long accepted payment methods makes me wonder if their merchant account has been penalizing them over and over again and this is simply a short-sighted attempt to reduce their losses. Not all of us need or want credit to pay for everything and it's nice to be able to have as many payment options as possible for us. I also agree with the original sentiment that this specific change in policy will probably penalize foreign travelers even more than it does permanently indebted Americans.



Guest said:


> I doubt it will inconvenience many foreigners. Maybe just some old people who refuse to listen to their kids or don't have anybody to show them the modern ways. Travelers checks are pretty much dead these days anyway. Then there is the logos: Visa and MasterCard are pretty much universal.


The US is quite possibly the most credit-focused market in the world. Which probably explains why our economy is forced to service massive amounts of debt. Even in the case of other credit-friendly countries the ease of credit access is a relatively new development. I guess the rest of the world wasn't as impressed with transaction fees and interest rates only a loan shark could love and wondered how access to their own money could be so expensive. Never mind that Amtrak has already abandoned debit transactions that should have cost them less money over the long term and provided a payment method much _newer_ than credit cards. Maybe some day an "old person" will clue you in on what your parents obviously left out.


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## the_traveler (Sep 3, 2010)

I always use my AGR MasterCard to pay for meals and/or snacks!




This way, I earn 2 AGR points per $ - because it's coded as Amtrak!


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 3, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> I always use my AGR MasterCard to pay for meals and/or snacks! This way, I earn 2 AGR points per $ - because it's coded as Amtrak![/img]


If there is one thing Americans love more than living in perpetual debt, it's non-negotiable kickbacks! :lol:


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## leemell (Sep 3, 2010)

daxomni said:


> LA Resident said:
> 
> 
> > Don't debit cards all require the use of a PIN?
> ...


Many retail and travel businesses have stopped accepting them, namely Starbucks, Walmart, Whole Foods,Travelx, most oil and gas companies in the UK, banks in Spain and the Netherlands and many more. In addition, AAA has stopped selling them as less than 1 percent of their customers buy them. I expect that Amex and the credit card companies to stop making them in the next year or two. Amtrak is not out of line in their decision to stop as well. One thing that has killed them is that it has turned out to be relatively easy to forge them.


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## FrankStar (Sep 3, 2010)

For me, it's a moot point.

Karl Malden notwithstanding, I found travelers checks to be a very inconvenient way to pay for anything while traveling. The one trip that I took relying on travelers checks (on the advice of someone who obviously didn’t travel with them much) to the Greek islands was a real pain. No one would cash them except banks and hotels – and at a very high commission/low exchange rate. Until debit cards became popular worldwide, I just traveled with cash – either exchanged at a bank in advance or on arrival.

I'm a careful person and I've never been the victim of theft while traveling - except for a silk scarf at NYP almost 20 years ago.

My debit cards (one Visa, one Mastercard) are never used at point-of-purchase with a PIN – since I don’t get reward points that way.

I haven’t written a regular check in years and I only write money orders for when I want to mail a payment or don’t want the recipient to have my bank or PayPal information.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 3, 2010)

leemell said:


> Many retail and travel businesses have stopped accepting *them*. In addition, AAA has stopped selling *them* as less than 1 percent of their customers buy *them*. I expect that Amex and the credit card companies to stop making *them* in the next year or two. One thing that has killed *them* is that it has turned out to be relatively easy to forge them.


Please go back and replace "them" with something a bit more descriptive so we have some clue about which specific method(s) you're responding to. Also, please don't quote my _entire_ post _and_ the post(s) I quoted unless you're responding to all of it.



FrankStar said:


> The one trip that I took relying on travelers checks (on the advice of someone who obviously didn’t travel with them much) to the Greek islands was a real pain.


I love this logic. So the person who advised you obviously didn't travel much with travelers checks and the way you determined this was by traveling to to one _single_ country on one _single_ trip and then immediately giving up. Did I read that correctly? Travelers checks are not a replacement for cards but they do serve a purpose if you understand when, where, and how to use them. I'm not saying they are the best match for your travel arrangements, but they do work for some people.



FrankStar said:


> My debit cards are never used at point-of-purchase with a PIN – since I don’t get reward points that way.


The reason you don't get as many reward perks on debit transactions is because the middleman who's "rewarding" you with a kickback isn't able to skim as much off a debit authorization as they are a credit transaction.


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## FrankStar (Sep 3, 2010)

daxomni said:


> FrankStar said:
> 
> 
> > The one trip that I took relying on travelers checks (on the advice of someone who obviously didn’t travel with them much) to the Greek islands was a real pain.
> ...


Please do NOT attempt to conflate my personal opinion with any attempt at being logical. Had I wished to engage in a logical argument, you would have been unable to refute it.

Perhaps a more productive use of your time would be to write a "logical" letter to Amtrak and attempt to persuade them to return to using an antiquated payment system rather than taking ill-aimed and ill-mannered potshots at what others post in the way of anecdotal discussion.


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## leemell (Sep 3, 2010)

daxomni said:


> leemell said:
> 
> 
> > Many retail and travel businesses have stopped accepting *them*. In addition, AAA has stopped selling *them* as less than 1 percent of their customers buy *them*. I expect that Amex and the credit card companies to stop making *them* in the next year or two. One thing that has killed *them* is that it has turned out to be relatively easy to forge them.
> ...


First, "them" is the subject of this thread, Amtrak's new Travelers Checks policy, hence the them. Second I don't need lessons on posting. I've been posting on web sites, Usenet (you know what that is, right?) and bulletin boards since 1982 when bandwidth was REALLY limited. I really don't need someone telling me how to post, unless it is the moderator.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 3, 2010)

leemell said:


> First, "them" is the subject of this thread, Amtrak's new Travelers Checks policy, hence the them. Second I don't need lessons on posting. I've been posting on web sites, Usenet (you know what that is, right?) and bulletin boards since 1982 when bandwidth was REALLY limited. I really don't need someone telling me how to post, unless it is the moderator.


I couldn't tell if you were intending to include money orders from the opening post or debit cards from my post that you _quoted in full_.

As for Usenet, I remember it being _more_ likely that readers would be critical of sloppy writing back then. I certainly don't miss the days of elm, pine, telnet and z-modem. Although I personally think Forte Agent was quite possibly the best forum software ever created, but that might just be my hazy nostalgia acting up. In any case it can't hurt to only quote what you're actually replying to and avoid using a series of identically vague terms that require your audience to piece together your specific meaning. And that's pretty much all I have left to say on the matter.


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## Ispolkom (Sep 5, 2010)

I'm sure that Amtrak is stopping taking traveler's checks and money orders for the same reason it stopped taking personal checks: too much fraud relative to the tiny number of customers who use them.


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## caravanman (Sep 5, 2010)

Hi,

I am one of those old folk who don't listen to their kid's instructions on "how to live in 2010" ! (Oddly, my 17 year old son can't seem to hear my "wisdom" either...!).

Travelers Cheques are pretty old fashioned, I had to carry a few thousand dollars in cheques in the 1980's when I set off for my 9 months travel in Asia. Small islands, small villages, etc, are not equiped to deal with travel cheques, in my experience.

It seems odd to me that the USA is so far behind on "Chip and Pin" caed security? I guess the issue for Amtrak, at least aboard train, is that the device used to swipe the chip and pin card seems to need to comunicate with the banking network to obtain authorisation for the payment? Not too easy in the middle of nowhere? I have a distrust of ATM's and debit and credit card payments at all times, and tend to only pay major hotel bills, airfares, etc by card, all small bills get paid with cash.

Cheers,

Eddie


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2010)

*Coming up next-* "Amtrak adopts airline business model. No longer accepts cash on trains."


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 5, 2010)

As two of those old foggies who still used traveler's cheques until recently, I must say that the time has come to move on.

We have always carried them on our many vacations over the last thirty years, but our recent train trips to California and other western states led to some problems in being able to cash them.

It seems as though most of the young people who serve as waiters/waitresses dont know what they are and must usually call a supervisor (one over 25) :lol: to see if they are acceptable.

Then we tried to cash some at banks in Sacramento and only one (Wells Fargo) would cash them and only after I was fingerprinted and signed some paperwork 

Since we do not have an ATM card (yes we will someday come into the modern age :lol: trying to get some actual US dollars was a real problem. Of course now that Mickey Dees and Wendys take credit cards I guess you dont need cash anymore. 

But we like to have money for tips on the train and for cab fares so will need to improvise someway. 

Alas the days of using Traveler's Cheques are over. Glad we have the Amtrak MC to gain lots of train points.


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## p&sr (Sep 5, 2010)

Railroad Bill said:


> But we like to have money for tips on the train and for cab fares so will need to improvise someway.


More and more Cabs are taking Credit Cards these days. In many places, you can find out on the Internet, or call and ask specifically to have them send you a "Card-Enbled" Taxi.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 5, 2010)

The thing with using credit cards on cabs is some have a different rate for cards that is more then the cash rate.


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## jis (Sep 5, 2010)

leemell said:


> I've been posting on web sites, Usenet (you know what that is, right?) and bulletin boards since 1982 when bandwidth was REALLY limited.


Ah yes! Usenet! I used to be a Usenet administrator at Bell Labs back in the days. Still pose on Usent. There is no bulletin board or forum that is as much of a free for all as Usenet! 

Jishnu


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## alanh (Sep 6, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> The thing with using credit cards on cabs is some have a different rate for cards that is more then the cash rate.


That's because they can run a fare with the meter off easier with cash -- ie, cheat, either you or the cab company. The credit card leaves a nasty paper trail. I'm not aware of any cab (in the US at least) that legitimately charges a different fare for credit.

Although _credit_ card usage is much less outside the US, the opposite is true for _debit_ card usage. The countries that still run mainly on cash are one that have iffy banking systems.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 6, 2010)

alanh said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > The thing with using credit cards on cabs is some have a different rate for cards that is more then the cash rate.
> ...


suburban cab in Michigan posts there rates on the window and it shows a higher fair rate for credit cards as well as a $25 minimum fair for credit cards and I know about being cheated. Me and my mom took a Detroit cab(that's the name) from downtown to Warren,MI(came back from Arizona via greyhound) that cabbie charged us $60 for the trip the whole time having his baseball cap over the meter and that was cash. It shouldn't have cost more then $30 for the trip as I have taken checker cab from Detroit.


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## makai1976 (Sep 6, 2010)

I imagine there was similar outrage when some businesses stopped accepting gold dust, sea shells, and beads. That reminds me of a good joke a friend telegraphed the other day...


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## oldtimer (Sep 6, 2010)

makai1976 said:


> I imagine there was similar outrage when some businesses stopped accepting gold dust, sea shells, and beads. That reminds me of a good joke a friend telegraphed the other day...



Before you tell us that joke PM me as I just got a good one via smoke signal, maybe it is the same one.

News Flash! just came in three ships spotted off the SE coast.


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## boxcar479 (Sep 6, 2010)

You guys are baaaad


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## CHANGEATJAMAICA (Sep 7, 2010)

During more than 30 years traveling as an airline employee on business or pleasure in the US and possessions as well as Europe, the Middle East and Africa I NEVER used Traveler's Checks/Cheques. They were/are a waste of time and have always been difficult to exchange outside of banks or large hotels. Not to mention severe cases of writer's cramp.

Best regards,

Rodger


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## Chris J. (Sep 7, 2010)

I have never used Travellers Checks - I have a Visa card and a Mastercard and and generally one of them works. I also have a debit card which can be used in a magic machine in the wall to obtain hard cash 

As long as Amtrak continue to accept my (UK) Visa card I will be happy (and I think a Visa card is a Visa card regardless of where it's from). I did once have my CC company call up "we want to verify a transaction of 300 pounds to a company called Amtrak" .. "yeah that'd be right" :lol:

In contrast, In the Netherlands it's seemingly impossible to get a ticket from a machine without either alot of coins or a Dutch debit card.. which isn't great for travellers!


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2010)

There are few methods of transportation that I actively _hate_ but taxis are fast becoming one of them. Here in our town licensed cabs are supposed to offer credit card purchases according to the sticker on the window, but they almost always have a sudden "malfunction" that is only discovered at the drop-off point.

It wouldn't be so bad were it not for the fact that every five minutes of driving results in another $20 on the meter. A ten minute ride to the Amtrak station can cost as much as $40, which is more than a round trip on Amtrak to Austin. Taking the cab both ways can be up to $80, which is as much as train ticket to El Paso. Keep in mind that there are ZERO passenger parking spaces at our Amtrak station in a catchment area of two _million_ potential riders.

There are billboards all over town telling people to take a cab rather than drive while buzzed, which I strongly agree with, but how many folks end a night of heavy partying with an extra $50 in cash for cab fare home? If they really wanted people to take the cab they'd lower the city's taxi rates so average people could afford them on a regular basis. It's not like we're getting nice car to ride in, they're all junk heaps with a new coat of orange or white paint and some cheesy faux luxury name on the side.



alanh said:


> Although _credit_ card usage is much less outside the US, the opposite is true for _debit_ card usage. The countries that still run mainly on cash are one that have iffy banking systems.


Wait, so you're saying Japan has "iffy" banking systems? How so?



makai1976 said:


> I imagine there was similar outrage when some businesses stopped accepting gold dust, sea shells, and beads.


"Outrage" hasn't yet shown up in this thread. It's mainly filled with people who have never used travelers checks trying to tell those of us who have how it works. For instance...



CHANGEATJAMAICA said:


> I NEVER used Traveler's Checks/Cheques. They were/are a waste of time and have always been difficult to exchange outside of banks or large hotels. Not to mention severe cases of writer's cramp.


I love it when people who have NEVER done something tell you what it's like.


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## makai1976 (Sep 7, 2010)

daxomni said:


> "Outrage" hasn't yet shown up in this thread. It's mainly filled with people who have never used travelers checks trying to tell those of us who have how it works. For instance...


Can I change some of my beads for your "travelers checks?" I'm about to embark on a 3-month steamer trip to the Orient. I've heard that Siam does not participate in the bead trade, and as I'd like to be able to purchase rubies for my betrothed back here in the 36 states. Perhaps they will come in handy with the Maharaj in Bombay as well.


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## jis (Sep 7, 2010)

daxomni said:


> "Outrage" hasn't yet shown up in this thread. It's mainly filled with people who have never used travelers checks trying to tell those of us who have how it works. For instance...


I used to use Traveler's Checks a lot, but they became somewhat redundant once ATMs became available across the world and they started giving the best exchange rates. So I stopped using Traveler's Checks. All that I was using TCs for was to not carry a pile of cash around. But on the whole using TCs is sort of like loaning that money to Amex for the duration without getting any returns. So I always tried to get rid of them as fast as possible, and never bought them from anyone who charged any money for them.

So at least I have no reason to be outraged.


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## guest asia (Sep 7, 2010)

makai1976 said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > "Outrage" hasn't yet shown up in this thread. It's mainly filled with people who have never used travelers checks trying to tell those of us who have how it works. For instance...
> ...


I guess this is supposed to be funny? :huh:


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## CHANGEATJAMAICA (Sep 7, 2010)

DAXOMNI,

While it is TRUE, I never availed myself of the "convenience" of travelers checks/cheques; I seldom traveled alone and observed as my traveling companions attempted to write their names numerous times in a hotel in Cairo the same way they did at their local bank some weeks before. Additionally shared their frustration and had to loan them money because the items they were never to have left home without were not accespted at various agencies.

Thanks,

Best regards,

Rodger


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