# Business class vs.coach



## Kaffy (Aug 2, 2010)

I am planning on taking Amtrak from NYC to Old Orchard Beach Maine with two children, switching trains in Boston. Trying to decide it if business class is worth the extra cost. Does anyone know what the advantages of business class are.


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## spacecadet (Aug 2, 2010)

Kaffy said:


> I am planning on taking Amtrak from NYC to Old Orchard Beach Maine with two children, switching trains in Boston. Trying to decide it if business class is worth the extra cost. Does anyone know what the advantages of business class are.


More legroom... not sure if they do free drinks anymore. One word of warning: other passengers might not appreciate two children in business class. (It is called business class for a reason.) One of the "implied" advantages of business class is that it's generally (no, not always) quieter than a coach car, and most of the people in business class will spend at least part of the trip doing work.

That said, I don't believe there is anything preventing you from taking kids into business class. I personally have not seen it done but I'm sure some people do it.

Some trains run with business class cars in coach class (the last regional train I took from BOS-NYP had about 4 coach cars and 8 business class cars, only one of which was "the" business class car), in which case the *only* real advantage to actually purchasing a business class ticket is the peace and quiet. But that's kind of a crap shoot. Some days you might get lucky, other days not.


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## guest (Aug 2, 2010)

Kaffy said:


> I am planning on taking Amtrak from NYC to Old Orchard Beach Maine with two children, switching trains in Boston. Trying to decide it if business class is worth the extra cost. Does anyone know what the advantages of business class are.


I don't find the business class in the NEC trains--i.e. NYC to Boston--to be worth the additional cost. The seating is still 2 plus 2, albeit with a little more legroom than regular coach, and the free bottle of water or can of soda is hardly worth the higher price. For the time required, you as an adult can tolerate easily the regular coach seats, and the kids wouldn't notice extra legroom anyways.

On the Downeaster from Boston up to Maine, the BC is in the snack car and much classier, with 2 and 1 seating in really nice leather seats. But again, I don't know how much that would mean for kids. You as an adult would very much enjoy it, though.

As far as children riding in BC, I rode BC three times on the Missouri River Runner and there were children, along with parents, all three instances.


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## the_traveler (Aug 3, 2010)

spacecadet said:


> One of the "implied" advantages of business class is that it's generally (no, not always) quieter than a coach car, and most of the people in business class will spend at least part of the trip doing work.


Quieter?






I was on an AGR sleeper award, so I was entitled to BC on a Regional from WAS to KIN. When the passengers boarded, at least 5 people in BC started talking (not quietly either



) on their cell phones! And this was* ALL BEFORE* the train left WAS!



And the run began in WAS!





I was almost tempted to move 1 car back - to the Quiet Car (aka coach)!


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## caravanman (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi,

I would question the lable of Amtrak's "business class" as being a description for business travel.. After all, they need to call it something, so is it called upper class, 1st class, slightly roomier than regular class? My impression of it is that business class is pretty much like regular class, children welcome, but a slightly more affluent clientel?

Ed


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 3, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> Quieter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to agree. The "businessmen" are not exactly quiet in the NEC BC cars, yakking it up quite loudly on their cell phones (arguing during their conference calls?).

BTW, I have to also agree that BC on the NE Regionals isn't really worth it. The only advantage, is priority boarding at some stations, and with that, an increased likelihood you will find multiple seats all together.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 3, 2010)

caravanman said:


> I would question the lable of Amtrak's "business class" as being a description for business travel.. After all, they need to call it something, so is it called upper class, 1st class, slightly roomier than regular class? My impression of it is that business class is pretty much like regular class, children welcome, but a slightly more affluent clientel?


Well, on airlines, Business Class is for the most part, is simply more leg room. Amtrak's Business Class on the NE Regionals is basically just that.

However, there are indeed other Amtrak routes, outside of the NE Regionals, where Business Class is certainly a step up. It is when the 2-1 seating, using those La-z-boy style reclining seats in leather (or is it faux leather?) is really, really comfy.


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## Ray Cooney (Aug 3, 2010)

Downeaster business class is worth it. Not only the 2/1 seats with leg rests, but they serve the BC folks BEFORE the coach people.


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## guest (Aug 3, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > One of the "implied" advantages of business class is that it's generally (no, not always) quieter than a coach car, and most of the people in business class will spend at least part of the trip doing work.
> ...


You're not kidding about the cell phone use in BC, esp. on the NEC!

But I find it interesting in a slightly perverse way. In less than an hour, I can learn significant details about practically everyone using a phone, since conversations on cell phones always seem to be louder.

If I were so inclined, I could use a lot of the info gleaned for mischievous activities into their affairs. People should be much more careful about what and how they say things on cell phones in public!!

After about an hour or so, however, I am inclined to take a hammer to each cell phone--and each cell phone user!!


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## amamba (Aug 3, 2010)

Just took the downeaster last week, and it was very nice in BC. It is indeed the 2-1 seating in the second half of the cafe car. Not only that, but the very nice cafe car attendent came by while we were parked at BON and got everyone their free drinks and served them to the pax in their seats. A very nice service flourish.

BC on the NEC isn't really worth it, but for the extra $8 on the downeaster I found it to be a very, very good value.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Well, on airlines, Business Class is for the most part, is simply more leg room. Amtrak's Business Class on the NE Regionals is basically just that.


Show me an airline that sells a coach seat with extra legroom as BC. On every airline I have seen BC has a wider seat as well. Some airlines do sell a economy with more legroom but they usually call it something like Economy Plus, not BC.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 3, 2010)

Guest said:


> On every airline I have seen BC has a wider seat as well.


Every airline I have seen, their BC seats are narrower than Amtrak's seats.


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## buck1108 (Aug 3, 2010)

Has anyone here experienced the Maple Leaf Business Class? Is it better than the NE Regionals?

Thanks


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## amamba (Aug 3, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > On every airline I have seen BC has a wider seat as well.
> ...


A quick visit to seatguru.com will easily debunk this statement. For example, most United and US airways planes have a seat width of 17 - 18" in Economy/coach class. On those same airlines, business/first class seats in the same planes have a seat width of 19-21". One finds that the seats of 17" width tend to have the 19" width in business class - probably because the planes aren't as wide to fit in wider seats.

Is there a specific airline, choo choo Charlie, that you are thinking of? Perhaps I didn't look at that one.

Now if your statement is that Amtrak's seats are still wider than the business class seats on planes, that might be possible. But you will find that the airplanes are selling extra leg room AND the extra width in the upgrade to business class.


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## frugalist (Aug 3, 2010)

What about coach vs. business class on the Amtrak Cascades? What are the benefits of BC on those trains? Do you find it worth it?


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## PRR 60 (Aug 3, 2010)

Airline Business Class also includes free meals and drinks. Travelers used to airline Business Class are in for a disappointment if they think Amtrak's version is comparable.


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## Ryan (Aug 3, 2010)

frugalist said:


> What about coach vs. business class on the Amtrak Cascades? What are the benefits of BC on those trains? Do you find it worth it?


Priority boarding (at least at PDX), a voucher for a few bucks of stuff in the bistro car. Don't recall what a coach seat looked like, but BC was nice and comfy.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 3, 2010)

amamba said:


> A quick visit to seatguru.com will easily debunk this statement.


A quick visit to seatguru.com will easily prove you are once again wrong.

I find on that website, the typically airline BC seat is still narrower than an Amtrak coach seat.


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## AlanB (Aug 3, 2010)

frugalist said:


> What about coach vs. business class on the Amtrak Cascades? What are the benefits of BC on those trains? Do you find it worth it?


You'll get a much shorter checkin line, and in fact in Portland you check in at a special ticket window. You do get to board ahead of the coach passengers and in Vancouver you get to go through US Customs first, before the coach passengers. You'll get a $3 coupon to use in the cafe car towards whatever you buy. And finally the BC cars are 2&1 seating. They are cloth, not the faux leather found on many other routes. But still there are fewer people per car, which comes in handy if people have lots of luggage.


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## guest (Aug 3, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Airline Business Class also includes free meals and drinks. Travelers used to airline Business Class are in for a disappointment if they think Amtrak's version is comparable.


Airline business class is certainly nicer than the NEC BC class but IMHO not as nice as the luxurious 2 plus 1 seating on most other single-level Amtrak trains, ESPECIALLY when the typical airline sells its business class for double or triple the coach economy fare. (The 2 plus 1 seats are the old Metroliner first class seats and truly comfortable, a bit better than the Superliner LC coach seats.

And economy=first or economy=first or whatever an airline calls its economy class seats in the front of the economy cabin with an inch or two more legroom is certainly less desirable than Amtrak BC.

All in all, Amtrak BC, with the exception of the NEC trains, is a much better VALUE than an airline business class seat considering the extra charge is only a small percentage extra of the train coach fare.

The only time I would ever consider an airline business class is on an overseas flight where you get a bed, for all practical purposes, and not just a seat. And you get nonstop free food.


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## AlanB (Aug 3, 2010)

buck1108 said:


> Has anyone here experienced the Maple Leaf Business Class? Is it better than the NE Regionals?
> 
> Thanks


Just came off the Leaf this past Thursday, riding from Toronto to NY. The Leaf operates with the Club-Dinette car, which is the special car with the 2&1 faux leather seating. If you're going any distance on this train, I highly recommend BC for the better seats. And you will get free non-alcoholic drinks.

One word of caution, if you're coming east/south on the Leaf, get to the cafe car early. Amtrak has no way to restock things either in Toronto or Niagara Falls, NY on the way back to NY. Therefore the train runs with what it carried out of NY the day before. Once it sells out, and typically most things do sell out (certainly the most popular things), it's gone.


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## Ryan (Aug 3, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > A quick visit to seatguru.com will easily debunk this statement.
> ...


How wide is an Amtrak coach seat?


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## caravanman (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi,

I think the original poster was probably looking for general info and enlightenment rather than a squabble about seat sizes..

I have seen some MASSIVE Americans waddling to their Amtrak seats in coach, they don't seem to get stuck in them.. the seats are like armchairs, just huge. Anyone who needs more legroom or seating area would probably be too big to get on the train!

I am 6' 2" tall myself, although I only weigh a modest amount by US standards!

Eddie


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## the_traveler (Aug 3, 2010)

The *BIG* difference between seats on Amtrak and seats on a plane is that there is no armrest in between the two seats! Thus you don't have to "squeeze into your seat"!



But I think the seats are bigger anyway.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 3, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> The *BIG* difference between seats on Amtrak and seats on a plane is that there is no armrest in between the two seats! Thus you don't have to "squeeze into your seat"!
> 
> 
> 
> But I think the seats are bigger anyway.


Except for Acela, which has armrests. I like the armrests. It establishes the property line and prevents encroachments by land-grabbing seat-mates.


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## amamba (Aug 3, 2010)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > A quick visit to seatguru.com will easily debunk this statement.
> ...


What was I wrong about before? I am always right :giggle:

How wide is an amtrak coach seat? I didn't see that information listed at seatguru.com.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 3, 2010)

amamba said:


> What was I wrong about before? I am always right :giggle:
> 
> How wide is an amtrak coach seat? I didn't see that information listed at seatguru.com.


Amfleet and Superliner 2-2 seating width is 41 inches across both seats (no middle armrest) - 20.5 inches per seat. That applies to both coach and the Amfleet 2-2 version of Business Class.

Acela Business Class seat width is 21 inches. Acela First Class seat width is 23 inches.


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## amamba (Aug 3, 2010)

So in conclusion, while amtrak coach seats are definitely wider than most coach airline seats and many airline BC seats, it seems that amtrak BC seats are not necessarily wider than amtrak coach seats (except on the acela with the distinction being business & 1st class and on the special routes that have the 2-1 seating).

However, on amtrak on the NEC regionals it appears that the BC upgrade appears to just get you a warm soda and more leg room. This is definitely a difference between business class on airlines where a business class seat gets you a wider seat, more legroom, free alcoholic drinks, and sometimes a meal.

Thus I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, wouldn't you rather just take a train? Preferably acela 1st class or a bedroom in a sleeper. :blush:


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## jis (Aug 3, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Airline Business Class also includes free meals and drinks. Travelers used to airline Business Class are in for a disappointment if they think Amtrak's version is comparable.


There is slight confusion in terminology here. Airlines typically have Business Class in what are three class planes which are mostly found on international routes, and a few choice domestic routes in US. The upper class in most US airlines in US domestic service is domestic First Class. This is very different from international First Class, international Business Class, and even international so call Business-First Class. It is this domestic First Class where you get a pretty good free meal. In international Business Class you get an even better meal and even better accommodation typically than in domestic First Class.

In addition there are premium economy seats on some airlines which gives an additional inch or two of pitch in several rows of seats in the front of the economy cabin. The seat width is the same as regular economy seats for these at least in US airlines. Certain foreign airlines on international routes do have a bigger difference between economy and premium economy seats.

Typical real Business Class or Business First Class on international routes of reputable airlines now progressively include a lie flat bed. This is significantly better than the best Amtrak seats for getting some zzzzs in my opinion. But that is irrelevant since these do not typically fly internal routes except in a few isolated cases, in flights that use equipment on continuing itineraries from international flights, or in special designated premium service and which costs an arm and a leg. When you get them they are really nice.


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## Ryan (Aug 3, 2010)

Now we're getting somewhere.

This chart provides a handy reference of all business class seating for comparison:

http://www.seatguru.com/charts/longhaul_business_class.php

Unsurprisingly, there are many airlines with BC seats less than 20.5 inches and many with seats greater than that. In almost all cases there's going to be an armrest, so your neighbor is going to be a little bit further away from you than he is in an Amfleet seat.


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## the_traveler (Aug 3, 2010)

I'd still rather take Amtrak!


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## had8ley (Aug 3, 2010)

The 8 bucks you'll spend on Downeaster B/C is the best bargain on the Amtrak system hands down. I'm not going to get down on my hands and knees to measure anything but I will tell you that the Downeaster is in a class by itself. The BC cars are captive (the equipment stays the same) and are catered by a contractor. The B/C staff works more for tips as they are not Amtrak employees. The selection is light years better than the NEC trains and the attendant will deliver your drinks as mentioned in other posts. Last B/C on the NEC netted a groan when I asked for a cup of ice from the LSA when the comp drinks were sitting on the back counter.Put the kids in the two side which usually follows the coast line and enjoy the single side for yourself. Enjoy your trip first class for peanuts. BTW, my grand-daughter goes right to sleep as soon as the train turns a wheel; wish I could say the same about some of the other pax. Have a great trip.


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## jis (Aug 3, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Now we're getting somewhere.
> 
> This chart provides a handy reference of all business class seating for comparison:
> 
> ...


You really need to use the info about Short Haul Business/First Class seats since those are the predominant kind that you will find on routes that sort of compete with Amtrak. The Long Haul Business Class seats that you compared with are used mostly on overseas flights, which is something that Amtrak is unlikely to directly compete with on a per route basis.


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## spacecadet (Aug 3, 2010)

caravanman said:


> I have seen some MASSIVE Americans waddling to their Amtrak seats in coach, they don't seem to get stuck in them.. the seats are like armchairs, just huge. Anyone who needs more legroom or seating area would probably be too big to get on the train!


I'm 6'4 and the standard Amtrak coach seats don't offer enough legroom for me. They seem comfortable enough at first, but after 5-6 hours in one of those things (which is usually the minimum length of any trip that I take), after I've slid down a bit in my seat, the guy in front of me has reclined his chair and my knees start banging into things for an extended period of time, I start cursing the tiny amount of legroom.

I always opt for business class if it's available.

And yes, business class is usually quieter. Maybe it's the time of day that I usually travel, which is either before or after actual business hours, so there's no cell phone yapping when I ride, usually. Just a lot of guys and girls tapping on their laptops or reading the newspaper.


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## Ryan (Aug 3, 2010)

jis said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Now we're getting somewhere.
> ...


I considered that but was concerned that someone would object that I was comparing "First Class" on the airlines to "Business Class" on Amtrak. Your earlier post did a good job of breaking down how it isn't that simple.


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## buck1108 (Aug 4, 2010)

AlanB said:


> buck1108 said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone here experienced the Maple Leaf Business Class? Is it better than the NE Regionals?
> ...



As I will be getting on on Leaf in Buffalo (after making the connection from the eastbound Lakeshore Limited), would things perhaps still be in stock by that point? The person on the phone said that points further east wouldn't be possible to make a connection, so it looks like I'm stuck with Buffalo.

Thanks.


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## AlanB (Aug 4, 2010)

buck1108 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > buck1108 said:
> ...


Yes, going west/north towards Toronto the Leaf shouldn't have run out of anything by that point in time. It's coming home to NY that they run out of things because again, they can only carry just so much out of NY. If they didn't have to leave a fridge or two open for the VIA crews, they would probably be able to actually carry enough food stuffs so as to not run out. But Amtrak has to leave a couple of fridges open for the VIA cafe attendant to store their stuff when they board in Niagara Falls, Ontario.

And in your case, if you're going north of the border, you'll have the choice of either sampling Amtrak's wares or waiting until after you clear customs on the Canadian side and sampling VIA's wares. The VIA attendant will accept both US and Canadian currencies, so no worries there. And VIA actually sells Coke, something that Amtrak hasn't done for years as they have an exclusive contract with Pepsi.

Regarding connecting to the Leaf further east, Amtrak will only guarantee Buffalo Depew as the connection point. You would have to book 2 separate trips if you wanted to ride further east to cut down on the layover time. If you do that, it also becomes your responsability to monitor the progress of your eastbound train and ensure that you get off at an earlier stop if you are running late. If you blow the connection, Amtrak won't help you. If indeed you try this, if you wake up to find that you are running late, I would seek out a conductor and explain what you are doing and ask their advice as to which stop is the furthest east you should risk going to.


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## dlagrua (Aug 4, 2010)

Earlier this year we rode the NE regional coach to DC and returned "business class" We really didn't see that much of an advantage except that you don't find many of the lower classes there. You already have a good amount of room on any train. On an airlime flight they cram you in like an animal.


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## LA Resident (Aug 4, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Earlier this year we rode the NE regional coach to DC and returned "business class" We really didn't see that much of an advantage except that you don't find many of the lower classes there. You already have a good amount of room on any train. On an airlime flight they cram you in like an animal.


"Lower classes"?? Care to dig yourself into a deeper hole and give everyone a definition of who you are referring to?


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## Ryan (Aug 4, 2010)

You know, poor people. Don't you know that they're loud and smell bad?


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## the_traveler (Aug 4, 2010)

YOU TALKIN' 'BOUT ME?


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## Gord (Aug 5, 2010)

buck1108 said:


> Has anyone here experienced the Maple Leaf Business Class? Is it better than the NE Regionals?
> 
> Thanks


Never been on a NE regional but BC on the Leaf is much more comfortable than coach, 2 and 1 seating, better seats, more leg room, etc. Worth every penny for the long haul IMHO.

Gord


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## spacecadet (Aug 5, 2010)

Gord said:


> buck1108 said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone here experienced the Maple Leaf Business Class? Is it better than the NE Regionals?
> ...


That would be better than an NE Regional, which is 2+2.

It really is a lot of legroom, though. I feel like some people are too quick to dismiss that.


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