# First power test of Denver Airport RTD



## jis (Apr 18, 2015)

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/17/another-look-at-rtds-dia-commuter-railcars.html

Service is schedule to start in 2016. Allegedly it might happen ahead of schedule.


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## Rail Freak (Apr 18, 2015)

That will be cool! Cabs & the Super Shuttle may not feel the same!!!


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## jis (Apr 18, 2015)

Yep. A 23 minute ride to downtown, running every 15 minutes! Now only if we could get NJTransit to run something like that from EWR!. Not going to happen until the new tunnels are built - so 2025 or later.


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## Eric S (Apr 18, 2015)

Not to completely derail the DEN subject with EWR talk, but are you thinking a dedicated NYP-EWR shuttle every 15 minutes? Or just a combination of "regular" NJT trains every 15ish minutes?

Couldn't that be run now, at least off-peak, with half-hourly NEC trains and half-hourly NJC trains, or something like that? Honest question, as I am by no means an expert on NJT and the capacity of Amtrak/NJT tracks in that area.


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## jis (Apr 19, 2015)

Possible on weekdays but not on weekends due to single track ops between Secaucus and New York on weekends. To just do a shuttle to/from EWR a better train turning facility would be needed at North Elizabeth Yard. If such a service were ever to run it should probably be run by PANYNJ connecting EWR to Jamaica with stops at Newark, Secaucus and New York Penn Station.


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## PRR 60 (Apr 19, 2015)

jis said:


> http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/17/another-look-at-rtds-dia-commuter-railcars.html
> 
> Service is schedule to start in 2016. Allegedly it might happen ahead of schedule.


There was some talk that they are trying to get it open by Thanksgiving 2015. They can thank SEPTA for working (most of) the bugs out of the SLV's, and with a brand new route, all the traction, signal and communications stuff will be state-of-the-art. This will be definitely worth a mileage run, particularly if they get it open by the end of the year when invariably I am looking for EQM's.


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## jis (Apr 19, 2015)

If it opens by the end of the year I might do a mileage run the last week of the year.


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## afigg (Apr 19, 2015)

PRR 60 said:


> There was some talk that they are trying to get it open by Thanksgiving 2015. They can thank SEPTA for working (most of) the bugs out of the SLV's, and with a brand new route, all the traction, signal and communications stuff will be state-of-the-art.
> 
> This will be definitely worth a mileage run, particularly if they get it open by the end of the year when invariably I am looking for EQM's.


They might open the airport line early before the end of 2015? That would be impressive. With 3 new electrified Regional rail lines under construction and officially slated to open in 2016, Denver RTD has a lot of work ahead of them to get the lines up and running.

Among US cities, Denver and Los Angeles will see the most significant expansion of their rail transit systems by the end of 2016. Will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable or detectable secondary effect on Amtrak ridership growth for the Union Stations in both cities.


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## Rail Freak (Apr 19, 2015)

And here we are in Florida, still standing along the Highways with our thumbs out!!!! In Pinellas County, it's like pulling teeth to get a Bus System Goin!!!!


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## jis (Apr 19, 2015)

I must say that Orange and Miami-Dade are doing significantly better than Pinellas.  Broward and Palm Beach are doing OK too with a slew of counties adjacent to Orange in a similar situation. Hopefully in 5 years we might get at least one station in Brevard too!


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## Acela150 (Apr 19, 2015)

RTD is in for a rude awakening when they find out that those cars are trash. Anything by Rotem is trash.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 19, 2015)

Acela150 said:


> RTD is in for a rude awakening when they find out that those cars are trash. Anything by Rotem is trash.


I strongly disagree. Their Metrolink car is great not to mention their work on Seoul subway lines.


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## jis (Apr 20, 2015)

Acela150 said:


> RTD is in for a rude awakening when they find out that those cars are trash. Anything by Rotem is trash.


Do you operate or maintain these cars to have a first hand opinion? Or is this outburst based on armchair opinion driven by hearsay? Just curious.


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## Acela150 (Apr 20, 2015)

jis said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > RTD is in for a rude awakening when they find out that those cars are trash. Anything by Rotem is trash.
> ...


Jis, I have a friend who works on them at Septa and says they are trash. I've also talked to many Septa crews who despise them. On top of that I've been on a set that decided to go into Emergency in the middle of 16th Street Jct going to the Norristown Line. Which tied up everything.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 21, 2015)

Acela150 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


I know commuters on Metrolink who like the new Rotem cars.


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## fairviewroad (Apr 21, 2015)

Shawn Ryu said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Jis, I have a friend who works on them at Septa and says they are trash. I've also talked to many Septa crews who despise them. On top of that I've been on a set that decided to go into Emergency in the middle of 16th Street Jct going to the Norristown Line. Which tied up everything.
> ...


In fairness, it's not a mutually exclusive set of truths to say that crews despise them and passengers like them. That said, regular rail riders have all been on equipment that's crapped out at inopportune times. I don't think Amtrak or commuter agencies would operate ANY equipment if it weeded out everything that had a problem at one point or another.


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## Ryan (Apr 21, 2015)

Good point.

There's also something of a difference between EMUs and unpowered trailers. You can have the worlds greatest coach, but if it can't go anywhere because the propulsion systems suck, it doesn't do a lot of good.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 22, 2015)

RyanS said:


> Good point.
> 
> There's also something of a difference between EMUs and unpowered trailers. You can have the worlds greatest coach, but if it can't go anywhere because the propulsion systems suck, it doesn't do a lot of good.


True.

But new equipments having glitch here and there is not new. Give ROTEM a chance, Vancouver is ok with em.


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## neroden (Apr 29, 2015)

Shawn Ryu said:


> But new equipments having glitch here and there is not new. Give ROTEM a chance, Vancouver is ok with em.


Yeah, this isn't like Breda, which has "terrible, do not buy" reports from at least three major cities. Most reports on Rotem are good.


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## Shawn Ryu (Apr 30, 2015)

neroden said:


> Shawn Ryu said:
> 
> 
> > But new equipments having glitch here and there is not new. Give ROTEM a chance, Vancouver is ok with em.
> ...


Figure from Philly experience Rotem should have solved most of the glitch for RTD.


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## jis (Apr 30, 2015)

neroden said:


> Shawn Ryu said:
> 
> 
> > But new equipments having glitch here and there is not new. Give ROTEM a chance, Vancouver is ok with em.
> ...


Yes, I agree. I have ridden on Rotem products elsewhere in the world and in general they have been pretty good. So I view any problems at SEPTA to be transient in nature, until proven otherwise.
I suppose Hitachi will get to fix Breda now.


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## Tokkyu40 (May 1, 2015)

jis said:


> http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/17/another-look-at-rtds-dia-commuter-railcars.html
> 
> Service is schedule to start in 2016. Allegedly it might happen ahead of schedule.


A quote from the story, "The line uses 25,000-volt AC power from overhead lines, different than RTD's 750-volt DC light rail system."

This sounds a little overdone for an airport shuttle. How far do they plan to extend this line and with what kind of equipment?


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## MattW (May 1, 2015)

Why is that overdone? The higher voltage means fewer substations, and greater power available to the vehicles. It's also the standard for electrified railways. But while they aren't extending the airport line itself, they are adding other electrified commuter rail lines. I just wish more places were building new electrified systems.


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## Shawn Ryu (May 3, 2015)

MattW said:


> Why is that overdone? The higher voltage means fewer substations, and greater power available to the vehicles. It's also the standard for electrified railways. But while they aren't extending the airport line itself, they are adding other electrified commuter rail lines. I just wish more places were building new electrified systems.



I think someone already answered it before but will the electrified sections host freight trains?


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## jis (May 3, 2015)

No


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## MattW (May 3, 2015)

Not for this line, but aren't some of the further lines to be electrified existing [freight] tracks?


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## jis (May 3, 2015)

MattW said:


> Not for this line, but aren't some of the further lines to be electrified existing [freight] tracks?


But there will be no freight haulage using electric engines, since none are being purchased.


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## Shawn Ryu (May 3, 2015)

jis said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Not for this line, but aren't some of the further lines to be electrified existing [freight] tracks?
> ...


No I am asking if freight trains will use the track, not if freight trains will utilize the catenary.


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## jis (May 3, 2015)

Freight trains will not use the airport line. Some of the other lines use freight spurs and presumably freight will continue to run on the repurposed lines. The EMUs that RTD is getting for the HV electrified lines are all FRA Tier I compliant.


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## PRR 60 (May 3, 2015)

jis said:


> Yep. A 23 minute ride to downtown, running every 15 minutes! Now only if we could get NJTransit to run something like that from EWR!. Not going to happen until the new tunnels are built - so 2025 or later.


The proposed travel time from Denver International to Union Station is 35-37 minutes including five intermediate stops.


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## afigg (Oct 23, 2015)

News on the Denver airport line from Progressive Railroading: Denver airport to get commuter-rail stop in April 2016. Excerpt:



> The Regional Transportation District of Denver (RTD) will provide commuter-rail service from Denver Union Station to Denver International Airport starting April 22, 2016, the transit agency announced yesterday.
> 
> The agency made the announcement after receiving an official notice from Denver Transit Partners, the concessionaire in the public-private partnership that's building what will be called the University of Colorado A Line, according to an RTD press release.
> 
> The line is 23 miles of new electric commuter-rail service, which is part of the Eagle P3 project, the nation’s first public-private partnership for transit. The $2.2 billion project is being funded with local RTD taxes, a $1.03 billion federal grant and $450 million from Denver Transit Partners.


So it will be called "University of Colorado A-Line"? Rather lengthy. I expect it will be just the A-Line or the airport line in normal conversational use.

RTD FastTracks news release webpage on the announcement with photos.

How long it been since a new circa 23 mile electrified (catenary or 3rd rail) commuter/regional rail line has opened in the US? (excluding BART and WMATA as heavy rail transit).


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## PRR 60 (Oct 23, 2015)

afigg said:


> ...
> 
> How long it been since a new circa 23 mile electrified (catenary or 3rd rail) commuter/regional rail line has opened in the US? (excluding BART and WMATA as heavy rail transit).


That's a great question. There was new electrification of existing lines in NJ in the 1980's, and the 1985 SEPTA (Philadelphia) airport line included about six miles of new track and repurposed freight track. But the last time that 20+ miles of new electrified railroad in the US was put into service? Whew. That has to be a long, long time ago.


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## afigg (Oct 25, 2015)

PRR 60 said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > How long it been since a new circa 23 mile electrified (catenary or 3rd rail) commuter/regional rail line has opened in the US? (excluding BART and WMATA as heavy rail transit).
> ...


The A-line to the airport is not the only commuter/regional line scheduled to open in 2016. According to the RTD Fastracks Eagle P3 project page, 36 miles total of new electrified commuter/regional rail will open next year with the Gold Line (now the G line) contributing 11.2 miles and the Northwest stub line the remainder. So, by the end of 2016, Denver will add 36 miles of all new electrified commuter/regional service. Even counting existing commuter rail lines (and not counting the NHV-BOS electrification because the catenary for that segment is still only used by Amtrak), got to go back a long way I would venture since 36 miles of electrified commuter route has been added in the US in any given year.

Then add the 11.5 miles of light rail I-225 R-line that is expected to open in 2016. Impressive amount of expansion in just one year.


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## jis (Oct 25, 2015)

Why wouldn't you count the NHV - BOS. The excuse seems lame. After all the Colorado lines will not be used by anyone else either. The primary purpose of the Boston electrification was all along Amtrak service no one else participated in it. It is only of late that Connecticut is proposing to use it.


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## Anderson (Oct 26, 2015)

And (barring a major schedule slip) it sounds like this will be in operation by the time NARP has its Denver meeting out there next fall...

...which means that everyone will likely take the train to get there (even if they had to do that f-word to get to Denver in the first place)


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## neroden (Oct 26, 2015)

Tokkyu40 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/17/another-look-at-rtds-dia-commuter-railcars.html
> ...


It means that they can (a) use off-the-shelf railway electrification equipment,(b) have only two substations for the whole line, and

© run at 79 mph (possibly higher, actually -- they planned this before the PTC mandate, they might be able to raise speed limits)



> How far do they plan to extend this line and with what kind of equipment?


As noted by others, this is one of two lines (actually, three lines, but the third is a stub of a longer planned line) which will open in 2016 with 25kV AC overhead. There's also a light-rail extension opening in 2016.There's another line with 25kV AC overhead under construction which will open in 2018.

I believe there's going to be one substation in the vicinity of Union Station and one at the outer end of the Airport line, and there *might* be one at the far end of one or two of the other lines. This is a much smaller number of substations than would be needed for 600V DC.


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## PRR 60 (Oct 26, 2015)

neroden said:


> Tokkyu40 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


There are three substations specifically for the A-Line - one in the Stapleton area and two along the Pena Boulevard portion of the line. A fourth substation is located north of Union Station to provide power to the Union Station area and the common line to the maintenance facility.


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## alan_s (Oct 26, 2015)

Excellent! I'm flying in next July and leaving by AMTRAK after a day or two. I hope it's in service by then.

Does anyone have tips for economical hotels within a reasonable distance? The one in the new terminal is far too expensive for this budget traveller.

If this line is operating by then possibly an airport hotel may be best.


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## jis (Oct 31, 2015)

The line will start operating in the second half of April according to recent reports.

Yeah the Tower Road hotels can be quite inexpensive, many below $100. But they are in the middle of nowhere. Getting anywhere from there without a car means taking a shuttle to the airport and then taking the bus or train from there to wherever.


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## PRR 60 (Oct 31, 2015)

The other cluster of hotels near the interchange of Peña Boulevard and I-70 may be more practical. Those have also free shuttles to and from the airport, and when the rail line is open, will be about a one mile walk from the airport line's 40th Avenue/Airport Blvd - Gateway Park station.


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## jis (Oct 31, 2015)

PRR 60 said:


> The other cluster of hotels near the interchange of Peña Boulevard and I-70 may be more practical. Those have also free shuttles to and from the airport, and when the rail line is open, will be about a one mile walk from the airport line's 40th Avenue/Airport Blvd - Gateway Park station.


Hopefully those hotels' shuttles will do a drop off/pick up at the 40th Avenue/Airport blvd station.


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## Agent (Nov 22, 2015)

This train came though Agency, Iowa on Friday heading to Denver. I'm out of my element when it comes to commuter railroads, so does each car count as an EMU, or are these two EMUs? The cars numbers were RTD (if that's the reporting mark they use) 4054, 4053, 4056, and 4055.


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## jis (Nov 22, 2015)

I believe they are married pairs, that is each pair constitutes an EMU unit.


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## Agent (May 21, 2016)

If this is still relevant, I saw a westbound BNSF train at Agency, Iowa taking two more EMUs to Denver on Friday. The car numbers were RTD(X?) 4064, 4063, 4062, and 4061.


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## RSG (May 25, 2016)

And the 'A' in "A-Line" stood for 'aggravation' on Tuesday as the new light rail line had its first major glitch: a power loss with a train stranded on a bridge.

From KUSA-TV/9NEWS [video, 3:56]:

81 passengers evacuated from commuter trainhttp://www.9news.com/weather/81-passengers-evacuated-from-commuter-train/214163248


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## Bob Dylan (May 25, 2016)

RSG said:


> And the 'A' in "A-Line" stood for 'aggravation' on Tuesday as the new light rail line had its first major glitch: a power loss with a train stranded on a bridge.
> 
> From KUSA-TV/9NEWS [video, 3:56]:
> 
> ...


This is pretty common when "New" technology is first placed in service."Bugs" have to be worked out of all new systems. 
The Trams @ DFW ( Airport) were notorious for stopping underground and going dark when the Airport first opened and of course Kansas,er Denver International had the infamous "Eat your Luggage System. "


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## fairviewroad (May 25, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> RSG said:
> 
> 
> > And the 'A' in "A-Line" stood for 'aggravation' on Tuesday as the new light rail line had its first major glitch: a power loss with a train stranded on a bridge.
> ...


I assume you intentionally put the word "new" in quotes. Electric trains have been around for 100+ years.

I can't remember ever reading about people having to be evacuated from a new expressway shortly after it opened due to "bugs" in the road.


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## jis (May 25, 2016)

There is a difference between a passive system like an expressway and an active system like a running train. There are plenty of bugs that need to be worked out from time to time in the active cars and buses using said expressway.


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## fairviewroad (May 25, 2016)

jis said:


> There are plenty of bugs that need to be worked out from time to time in the active cars and buses using said expressway.


Generally not within a month after they're first put into service, though.


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## jis (May 25, 2016)

fairviewroad said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > There are plenty of bugs that need to be worked out from time to time in the active cars and buses using said expressway.
> ...


OK we can split hair about it, but finding one example or even a few examples is not the same as finding a general situation. Typically mass produced road vehicles undergo much more through testing when compared to custom built small batch order heavy rail stuff when first deployed. Need we bring up some exemplary cases like some old Ford products for the road? But it would be inappropriate to generalize from that.


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## MARC Rider (May 25, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> RSG said:
> 
> 
> > And the 'A' in "A-Line" stood for 'aggravation' on Tuesday as the new light rail line had its first major glitch: a power loss with a train stranded on a bridge.
> ...


Oh yes, I remember those thrilling days of yesteryear when they introduced the HHP8 electric locos on the NEC.


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## Blackwolf (May 25, 2016)

The cause was a "broken wire" per the news articles. But, was that a "broken wire" in the passenger vehicle, or one in the electrical delivery system (catenary)? If its the later, that speaks to a much larger issue in my humble opinion.


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## MattW (May 25, 2016)

Blackwolf said:


> The cause was a "broken wire" per the news articles. But, was that a "broken wire" in the passenger vehicle, or one in the electrical delivery system (catenary)? If its the later, that speaks to a much larger issue in my humble opinion.


I believe the story I read indicated it was a subcontractor doing work. So the later, but not likely due to a fault with the system.


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## neroden (Jun 2, 2016)

Good, they've tested the evacuation system now.


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