# What happens on missed connections?



## sarahnity (Jan 6, 2022)

I am planning a cross-country circle route in March. I have already booked the complete trip, but now I am beginning to worry about delays causing a missed connection. Both the outgoing and the return legs have a connection to make with only about an hour layover. I have a roomette on each leg.
outgoing: 
Coast Starlight (SJC -> PDX)
Empire Builder (PDX -> MKE)
return:
Hiawatha (MKE-CHI)
California Zephyr (CHI -> EMY)
Capitol Corridor (EMY -> SJC)

Does anyone know what happens if the CS is late getting in to Portland and the EB has already left? Do they just put me on the next day's train? What about my roomette reservation? I'm wondering if I should change the trip and make sure I have at least one overnight in Portland and one in Chicago, just to be safe. I have friends joining me in Denver for the very last leg of the trip, so I really can't be on the wrong train for that leg.


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## CCC1007 (Jan 6, 2022)

The only connection that you have scheduled, which might prove to be a problem, is the Portland connection. Since it is a guaranteed connection, if you purchased the ticket all as a single trip, Amtrak will make sure you get to Milwaukee. That may be by holding the Empire Builder for the connection, putting you on a bus to "Cut the corner" and meet the train at Pasco, WA, or by putting you on the next train, depending on the severity of delay.

As for the other connections, since the Hiawatha is a short distance train that operates multiple trips per day, you should be good there. The Capitol Corridor also operates multiple trips per day, so you should be good on that end as well.

Hope you have a great trip, and don't be too worried about the connections overall.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 7, 2022)

Historically they have protected the Starlight-Builder connection at Portland fairly well.

The Starlight has a significant pad northbound into Portland, around 35 or 40 minutes, IIRC.

They will usually hold the Builder if the Starlight will make it within 30 minutes or so of the Builder's scheduled departure.

If the Starlight is catastrophically late by northern California, they'll set up a Klamath Falls-Pasco bus bridge.

If all else fails, they will put you up in Portland and send you out on the next day's Builder. This historically is fairly rare. You will not be guaranteed a room in that case. if the next day's sleeper is sold out, you'll be in coach with your sleeping car accommodation charge refunded. On the other hand, if roomettes are sold out but bedrooms are available they will put you in the bedroom at no additional charge.

Note that the Great Resignation has his bus charter companies, too, and I understand Amtrak sometimes has more difficulty than in the past arranging last minute, emergency charters.

Chances of missing other connections, all of which are to or from short distance Corridor services, are slight.


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## me_little_me (Jan 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> If all else fails, they will put you up in Portland and send you out on the next day's Builder. This historically is fairly rare. You will not be guaranteed a room in that case. if the next day's sleeper is sold out, you'll be in coach with your sleeping car accommodation charge refunded.


This is the one thing that bothers me about a missed connection. There is no way my wife and I can handle an overnight train in coach at our age and in our medical conditions. And there is no way to be sure that Amtrak will offer alternatives such as staying an extra day (even at our own expense) for a guaranteed room or a full refund including the coach fare plus the overnight stat in a hotel so we could rent a car or catch a plane the following day instead of having to pay for our own room then rent the car or fly at our own expense.

We don't trust Amtrak no matter how much time between trains. Even the Cardinal (arrival 10AM) in Chicago departing on the Zephyr (departing 6PM) is not enough time if we can't be guaranteed what we paid for. Worse is if we really splurge on a trip as we are doing in March to celebrate the year of our 50th Anniversary where, for the first time in our lives, we are springing for a deluxe BR (two attached rooms) on the SW Chief. Being told we'd have to stay overnight then go out in coach instead would be unacceptable so we're hedging it by staying overnight in Chicago by design.


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## moselman66 (Jan 7, 2022)

The Hiawatha to California Zephyr connection in Chicago is about as safe as they come. It arrives 12:29pm and the CZ leaves at 2pm. Since last May when the Hiawatha was restored, 221 of 222 trains arrived before 1pm, and the one late exception arrived at 1:02pm.


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## ScottR (Jan 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Historically they have protected the Starlight-Builder connection at Portland fairly well.
> 
> The Starlight has a significant pad northbound into Portland, around 35 or 40 minutes, IIRC.
> 
> ...


I’ve done the Coast Starlight to Empire Builder 7 times and always….just…made it, but the stress builds up, and that is what I’m trying to avoid by taking the train, so now I’ll overnight in Portland, which is still a nice city despite the Bad press!


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## sarahnity (Jan 7, 2022)

Thanks for everyone's response! I guess I will just stay with the trip as booked and see what happens. Worst case (I'm delayed to the next day and there is no bedroom available) I will just figure out a way to fly to Milwaukee and skip the EB leg. The only reason I'm willing to do this trip at all in a time of pandemic is knowing I will have my own room. I'm not thrilled about the idea of taking a plane, but that seems safer than two days in a coach seat on the train. 

But in any case, I'm not going to stress about it, and just see what happens.

If something goes wrong, and I don't get the experience I am looking forward to this time, well I can always try it again some other time. But then I think I will schedule in an overnight in Portland, just in case.

Sarah


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## zephyr17 (Jan 7, 2022)

me_little_me said:


> This is the one thing that bothers me about a missed connection. There is no way my wife and I can handle an overnight train in coach at our age and in our medical conditions. And there is no way to be sure that Amtrak will offer alternatives such as staying an extra day (even at our own expense) for a guaranteed room or a full refund including the coach fare plus the overnight stat in a hotel so we could rent a car or catch a plane the following day instead of having to pay for our own room then rent the car or fly at our own expense.
> 
> We don't trust Amtrak no matter how much time between trains. Even the Cardinal (arrival 10AM) in Chicago departing on the Zephyr (departing 6PM) is not enough time if we can't be guaranteed what we paid for. Worse is if we really splurge on a trip as we are doing in March to celebrate the year of our 50th Anniversary where, for the first time in our lives, we are springing for a deluxe BR (two attached rooms) on the SW Chief. Being told we'd have to stay overnight then go out in coach instead would be unacceptable so we're hedging it by staying overnight in Chicago by design.


Well, unfortunately Amtrak has almost no protection equipment, so they can't put on another sleeper, even if they could staff it, and they properly won't bump people with reservations on that day's train out of their sleepers. If you really want to get me angry, bump me out of reserved sleeper at the last minute so someone else can have it. They don't do that.

So, pending the reincarnation of the Pullman Company, which had tons of protection equipment at all major points and a lot of not so major points, with a large extra board available for last minute assignment, there is not much Amtrak can do.

Much of the time I do what you do, build in overnight layovers so as to ensure having my reserved sleepers in all but the most extreme circumstances. I usually do it with eastbound connections in Chicago. Westbound connections I tend to book through, the eastern trains run shorter distances and have less opportunity to get messed up. I've never had less than 2 hours at Chicago on westbound connections. SWC to CS connections in LA I do about 50/50, sort of depending on the history of that connection at the time. BNSF has generally handled the SWC well, but have had rough patches and now is one of those patches. That does not mean I don't roll the dice occasionally. I did an eastbound EB to LSL connection in early November without problems, although the EB was about 90 minutes late.

The CS to EB connection at Portland I don't have occasion to do because it would never make sense for me. I have been on a LOT of northbound Starlights with passengers making that connection, though.

The only answer to ensure sleeping accommodations is to build in layovers. You have to self protect to whatever degree you feel you need. Zero risk means a layover on virtually every connection.

PS, the Zephyr leaves Chicago at 2 pm, not 6 pm, and has for a long, long time. Even the original CB&Q/D&RGW/WP CZ left Chicago at 3:30 pm, nowhere near 6 pm. You have even less time than you thought on that one.


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## ScottR (Jan 7, 2022)

sarahnity said:


> Thanks for everyone's response! I guess I will just stay with the trip as booked and see what happens. Worst case (I'm delayed to the next day and there is no bedroom available) I will just figure out a way to fly to Milwaukee and skip the EB leg. The only reason I'm willing to do this trip at all in a time of pandemic is knowing I will have my own room. I'm not thrilled about the idea of taking a plane, but that seems safer than two days in a coach seat on the train.
> 
> But in any case, I'm not going to stress about it, and just see what happens.
> 
> ...


Yes I’ve always made it 7 for 7…a couple of times only just and they held the EB for us…


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## joelkfla (Jan 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Well, unfortunately Amtrak has almost no protection equipment, so they can't put on another sleeper, even if they could staff it, and they properly won't bump people with reservations on that day's train out of their sleepers. If you really want to get me angry, bump me out of reserved sleeper at the last minute so someone else can have it. They don't do that.
> 
> So, pending the reincarnation of the Pullman Company, which had tons of protection equipment at all major points and a lot of not so major points, with a large extra board available for last minute assignment, there is not much Amtrak can do.
> 
> ...


Assuming equal bucket levels, do you pay more for a stopover than for a direct connection?


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## zephyr17 (Jan 7, 2022)

Just a bit. I noticed that when booking EVR-NYP that the through rail fare was slightly cheaper than EVR-CHI and CHI-NYP. I had looked at individual segments to suss out the accommodation charges, which you can now only see clearly broken out on the multi-city option on the website. When booking with an an agent (I am picking about roomette location so always book sleepers with an agent), I noticed it was few dollars less than my figures, all in the rail fare. The accommodation charges were the same as my research. I think the difference was in the neighborhood of like $10. It certainly wasn't enough to be a factor in the decision to lay over or not. One of the reasons I booked through is that it was shortly after the daily trains went into inventory, and the "off" days were at low bucket for the rooms, but the "on" days when they were running under triweekly, were at high bucket (thanks @niemi24s!). Putting in a layover would have put me at high bucket on one or the other segment, so I decided to risk the connection.


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## me_little_me (Jan 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> PS, the Zephyr leaves Chicago at 2 pm, not 6 pm, and has for a long, long time. Even the original CB&Q/D&RGW/WP CZ left Chicago at 3:30 pm, nowhere near 6 pm. You have even less time than you thought on that one.


you're right. Couldn't remember so I guessed - wrong. Thanks for correction.


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## chickpea (Jan 7, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Assuming equal bucket levels, do you pay more for a stopover than for a direct connection?



I don't know the answer definitively but will watch for it, because I just did a check (multi city on website) and the cost was almost exactly the same with the stopover, all else being equal. I suspect YMMV depending on what's available?


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## basketmaker (Jan 8, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Historically they have protected the Starlight-Builder connection at Portland fairly well.
> 
> The Starlight has a significant pad northbound into Portland, around 35 or 40 minutes, IIRC.
> 
> ...


Partner and I did a western circle trip several years ago. The Starlight was running late so they bused us from Klamath Falls to Portland to make the Builder connection. It had been years since I had ridden a bus and having to leave our bedroom (Deluxe Bedroom back then) behind was a bummer. But I have to say it was a very nice ride. Some fantastic scenery through the Fremont-Winema, Umpqua and Willamette National Forests. Including a Dairy Queen stop for lunch. And a smoke/stretch break in a beautiful treed rest area. Had several youngins onboard being a bit noisey/rowdy. So partner ran into a 7-11 and bought "Little Big League" VHS tape that the driver played for us through the monitors. Kept all the kids entertained and quiet. We made our eastbound connection with time to spare.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 8, 2022)

basketmaker said:


> Partner and I did a western circle trip several years ago. The Starlight was running late so they bused us from Klamath Falls to Portland to make the Builder connection. It had been years since I had ridden a bus and having to leave our bedroom (Deluxe Bedroom back then) behind was a bummer. But I have to say it was a very nice ride. Some fantastic scenery through the Fremont-Winema, Umpqua and Willamette National Forests. Including a Dairy Queen stop for lunch. And a smoke/stretch break in a beautiful treed rest area. Had several youngins onboard being a bit noisey/rowdy. So partner ran into a 7-11 and bought "Little Big League" VHS tape that the driver played for us through the monitors. Kept all the kids entertained and quiet. We made our eastbound connection with time to spare.


You were lucky you were bused to Portland, not Pasco. It seems that most of the time if they have to bus you from K Falls, they'll cut the corner to Pasco and you'll miss the Gorge.


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## ScottR (Jan 8, 2022)

basketmaker said:


> Partner and I did a western circle trip several years ago. The Starlight was running late so they bused us from Klamath Falls to Portland to make the Builder connection. It had been years since I had ridden a bus and having to leave our bedroom (Deluxe Bedroom back then) behind was a bummer. But I have to say it was a very nice ride. Some fantastic scenery through the Fremont-Winema, Umpqua and Willamette National Forests. Including a Dairy Queen stop for lunch. And a smoke/stretch break in a beautiful treed rest area. Had several youngins onboard being a bit noisey/rowdy. So partner ran into a 7-11 and bought "Little Big League" VHS tape that the driver played for us through the monitors. Kept all the kids entertained and quiet. We made our eastbound connection with time to spare.


Well Dairy Queen put me through college working there at my local franchise in the summers and I could use some steak fingers and white gravy right now!


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