# Threat of freight RR strike in th US is not over



## AmtrakBlue (Oct 10, 2022)

Most of us already knew that. Here's the latest

Large rail union rejects deal, renewing strike possibility


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## tricia (Oct 10, 2022)

From the article: The "union said it agreed to delay any strike until five days after Congress reconvenes in mid November to allow time for additional negotiations."

So strike is still possible, but not immediately imminent.


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## rs9 (Oct 10, 2022)

Does anyone know the date of Congress reconvening? I have an 11/13 trip presumably before this date, but would be nice to be sure.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 10, 2022)

What does the Congress have to do with this? Have the Union lost there voice? Do they need Uncle Biden to talk for them.

The Union needs to figure out what there members need, and then get it for them.


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## jis (Oct 10, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> What does the Congress have to do with this? Have the Union lost there voice? Do they need Uncle Biden to talk for them.
> 
> The Union needs to figure out what there members need, and then get it for them.


The political reality is that unless one keeps Congress on board it may be more prone to force the issue than if they are on board. Strikes can be blocked by two entities and you want to keep them on your side as much as possible.


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## GDRRiley (Oct 10, 2022)

it was never going to be immediate the layers of delays


Just-Thinking-51 said:


> What does the Congress have to do with this? Have the Union lost there voice? Do they need Uncle Biden to talk for them.


congress can force the unions to not strike.


Just-Thinking-51 said:


> The Union needs to figure out what there members need, and then get it for them.


its pretty clear what members want, they want a predictable schedule and not to be working 24/7/365


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## joelkfla (Oct 10, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Does anyone know the date of Congress reconvening? I have an 11/13 trip presumably before this date, but would be nice to be sure.


Looks like Senate reconvenes 11/9, and House on 11/14. Officially, Congress is both the Senate and the House, but I think when people talk about Congress they often mean the House.

I just booked a trip 11/14-18. Hope I don't have more bad luck.


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## rs9 (Oct 10, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Looks like Senate reconvenes 11/9, and House on 11/14. Officially, Congress is both the Senate and the House, but I think when people talk about Congress they often mean the House.
> 
> I just booked a trip 11/14-18. Hope I don't have more bad luck.


The press release from the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees Division cites Nov. 14 as the date Congress convenes, and the 19th as the first day of a possible strike.






BMWED







www.bmwe.org





You probably know this, but just in case you don't, I believe Amtrak was canceling trains in the days leading up to the potential strike the last time around, so that Amtrak workers and equipment were not stranded.


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## joelkfla (Oct 11, 2022)

rs9 said:


> You probably know this, but just in case you don't, I believe Amtrak was canceling trains in the days leading up to the potential strike the last time around, so that Amtrak workers and equipment were not stranded.


Gee, thanks for reminding me.  

But seriously, that could be a problem. I'm on the southbound Meteor which would get into MIA on the 18th. I don't remember what Amtrak did with the Silvers last time; if they want to get them back to NY, well-ll-ll ...

At least I'd be in WAS, where there are lots of fairly cheap SWA flights to Orlando.

Seems like the gods just don't want me to make AGR Select status.


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## jis (Oct 11, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Gee, thanks for reminding me.
> 
> But seriously, that could be a problem. I'm on the southbound Meteor which would get into MIA on the 18th. I don't remember what Amtrak did with the Silvers last time; if they want to get them back to NY, well-ll-ll ...
> 
> ...


I have a similar problem over that weekend, but fortunately Orlando to New York and vice versa has more flights than one can shake a stick at and tickets are relatively easy to come by. I would just want Amtrak to refund the fare instead of giving me a voucher which I win;t get to use for ages at the rate Amtrak is going.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 11, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> What does the Congress have to do with this? Have the Union lost there voice? Do they need Uncle Biden to talk for them. The Union needs to figure out what there members need, and then get it for them.


Perhaps it would be advantageous to put a strike on hold to avoid actively undermining everyone who might be aligned with the cause?


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## pennyk (Oct 11, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Gee, thanks for reminding me.
> 
> But seriously, that could be a problem. I'm on the southbound Meteor which would get into MIA on the 18th. I don't remember what Amtrak did with the Silvers last time; if they want to get them back to NY, well-ll-ll ...
> 
> ...


My trip is the week before your trip and it was a rebooking of my hurricane canceled trip. I am hoping to get to NYC second week in November, and not getting stuck there.


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## Amtrak25 (Oct 11, 2022)

Just in time for heavy thanksgiving travel, which starts Nov 23.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 11, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Just in time for heavy thanksgiving travel, which starts Nov 23.



I’m assuming on purpose? More publicity? More pressure? 

For example, if they went on strike in a blizzard in mid-January, nobody would notice because they’d be at home anyway and not traveling.


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## Trogdor (Oct 11, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I’m assuming on purpose? More publicity? More pressure?
> 
> For example, if they went on strike in a blizzard in mid-January, nobody would notice because they’d be at home anyway and not traveling.



Freight railroad workers aren't really focused on the impacts to passenger service. Especially since the areas with the biggest passenger ridership aren't really going to be significantly affected by a freight strike anyway. The NEC (and many, though not all, connecting commuter lines) would run. Most of Chicago Metra would run. Relatively few would notice beyond that.

On the other hand, shutting down shipping right before the holidays, further affecting supply chains and the need to get goods onto store shelves (or, rather, onto warehouse shelves) will be noticed.


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## fengshui (Oct 12, 2022)

I would not be surprised if the plan by both the unions and Biden was to kick the can down the road past the election.


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## jis (Oct 12, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Just in time for heavy thanksgiving travel, which starts Nov 23.


I think there are not enough passengers with enough clout for them to bother with taking that into consideration. It is more about disruption of the supply chain in the big retail sale season more than anything else.


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## fengshui (Oct 12, 2022)

jis said:


> It is more about disruption of the supply chain in the big retail sale season more than anything else.



By late November, rail supply chain for Christmas is completely done, and everything will be in stores or regional warehouses. The big season for Christmas wholesale distribution is now.


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## jis (Oct 12, 2022)

fengshui said:


> By late November, rail supply chain for Christmas is completely done, and everything will be in stores or regional warehouses. The big season for Christmas wholesale distribution is now.


Notwithstanding that Amtrak ridership is not the reason for timing anything. They barely work even when the Sun is shining bright with no strike in sight.


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## GDRRiley (Oct 12, 2022)

fengshui said:


> By late November, rail supply chain for Christmas is completely done, and everything will be in stores or regional warehouses. The big season for Christmas wholesale distribution is now.


yes all the bulk goods are there but it would delay a ton of packages, Fedex, UPS would be hard pressed to find tens of thousands of more drivers.


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## fillyjonk (Oct 12, 2022)

I am going to be very disappointed if the strike happens and prevents me from getting home to see my mom for Thanksgiving (too far to drive, and I don't fly). I get the RR workers' grievances, I feel like this is on the company leadership to bend a little, but it's still a situation that's going to suck for a lot of people (including me)

My trip is scheduled the 18th. I actually care more about "I can't get up there" than "I might not be able to get back after Thanksgiving,." I will just finish the semester remotely if I have to. I spent 2020 and much of 2021 not getting to see ANY relatives, so....I'm not cancelling on the off chance I might not get BACK.

I'm screwed if I can't get up there.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 13, 2022)

GDRRiley said:


> yes all the bulk goods are there but it would delay a ton of packages, Fedex, UPS would be hard pressed to find tens of thousands of more drivers.


Things are very slow in the freight hauling business right now. As you stated the bulk good have been delivered. Also “tens of thousands” would need a citation. There a lot of inefficiency in the transportation business, but FedEx, UPS, Amazon the final mile is where they need drivers, and those drivers don’t need a CDL. Got some spare time available? They got packages for you to deliver.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 13, 2022)

fengshui said:


> By late November, rail supply chain for Christmas is completely done, and everything will be in stores or regional warehouses. The big season for Christmas wholesale distribution is now.


Actually it like October, if not September. Freight rates are quite low, nothing moving right now. Walmart was the leader of destroying the seasonal rush. Ever see those containers in the back of a Walmart store, that your Christmas stuff waiting for the shopping season to begin. They noticed the amount of money there spending during the rush, and engineering a system to avoid the freight rates surge.


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## west point (Oct 13, 2022)

Our local WalMarts are stuffed with goods finally delivered. Where to place Christmas goods is a problem . Many goods now are so hight on shelves hard to access them.


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## joelkfla (Oct 13, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> There a lot of inefficiency in the transportation business, but FedEx, UPS, Amazon the final mile is where they need drivers, and those drivers don’t need a CDL. Got some spare time available? They got packages for you to deliver.


Not really. I think Amazon is the only one that uses drivers to deliver in their "spare time," and they're recruiting in only a few cities: Actively Recruiting US Cities.

And if it's anything like driving for Uber or Lyft, your pay barely exceeds your expenses.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 13, 2022)

west point said:


> Our local WalMarts are stuffed with goods finally delivered. Where to place Christmas goods is a problem . Many goods now are so hight on shelves hard to access them.


Direct result of the shipping container backups. They and everyone else got burn by the congestion delays last year, so they order big and early, only to find inflation pressures keeping sales down.


joelkfla said:


> Not really. I think Amazon is the only one that uses drivers to deliver in their "spare time," and they're recruiting in only a few cities: Actively Recruiting US Cities.
> 
> And if it's anything like driving for Uber or Lyft, your pay barely exceeds your expenses.


Amazon is better set up for “spare time” drivers to deliver. UPS and FedEx it’s more of a seasonal employment. The number of rental trucks (even U-Haul) in the lot of a UPS distribution spot is amazing.


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## GDRRiley (Oct 13, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Things are very slow in the freight hauling business right now. As you stated the bulk good have been delivered. Also “tens of thousands” would need a citation. There a lot of inefficiency in the transportation business, but FedEx, UPS, Amazon the final mile is where they need drivers, and those drivers don’t need a CDL. Got some spare time available? They got packages for you to deliver.


its the between warehouse that would be the issue.
Look at a hot intermodal overnight on the and you'll see lots of UPS and Fedex trucks piggybacked. if those trailers ended up needed to be going by road they'd need a lot more drivers and trucks


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 13, 2022)

GDRRiley said:


> its the between warehouse that would be the issue.
> Look at a hot intermodal overnight on the and you'll see lots of UPS and Fedex trucks piggybacked. if those trailers ended up needed to be going by road they'd need a lot more drivers and trucks



Actually the stuff with the wheels would be easy to transfer to road use. It would be costly, but easily done. (_They do it on a regular basis when there a major derailment. It’s quite colorful see all the different trucks haul these trailer._) Containers with out chassis would need a flatbed, but still easy. The stuff like coal would be a problem, but hopefully they stocked up for winter. The other like chemicals would be bigger problem. Finding a trailer that can haul that product, and a driver with the approval skills to do it, would be the issue. I personally don’t haul Hazmat anymore and would need a skill check and approve safety gear to do so. Can be done, but why do it, when you can pull a FedEx trailer with out any extra effort.


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## GDRRiley (Oct 13, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Actually the stuff with the wheels would be easy to transfer to road use. It would be costly, but easily done. (_They do it on a regular basis when there a major derailment. It’s quite colorful see all the different trucks haul these trailer._) Containers with out chassis would need a flatbed, but still easy


your statement assumes there is enough drivers, trucks and rated trailers which there isn't.


Just-Thinking-51 said:


> The stuff like coal would be a problem, but hopefully they stocked up for winter.


no one stockpiles coal at power plans for more than a few weeks.


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