# Amtrak coupons a real scam?



## me_little_me (Nov 11, 2021)

I just made Select and got 2 upgrade coupons. They are good only within 12 hours of travel and are space-available. They are not good on discounted fares such as Senior, Disabled or Military discounts.

So a few months ahead, I buy a Senior ticket. Then 12 hours before travel, I try to use the coupon and I am lucky enough to have an available space. But I can't use that ticket. However, I'm guessing I could turn in my Senior ticket and buy an adult one. Of course, as a last minute ticket, the price is probably much higher so the "upgrade" may end up costing more than it's worth.

That the case?


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## Ryan (Nov 11, 2021)

That doesn’t make it a scam.


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## MARC Rider (Nov 11, 2021)

The best use for the upgrade coupons is to use them to upgrade to Acela First Class. It's one of the Select Plus perks that I use pretty regularly. I get a coupon every year that can only be redeemed 12 hours before departure, and 4 coupons that can be redeemed 24 hours before departure. I've never had a any problems booking upgrades with them, and now that you can upgrade on the app, the process is much less of a hassle. However, now that they assign seats, I've gotten some pretty flaky seat assignments, and it is a little difficult to switch to a better seat 12 hours before departure.

Senior discounts don't apply to Acelas, but even if they did, it would be more worth my while to pay $120 (a typical BAL - NYP fare) for an Adult Acela fare and use the coupon to upgrade to first class. The senior fare only saves me $12, whereas the upgrade is usually worth close the $100.


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## me_little_me (Nov 11, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> The best use for the upgrade coupons is to use them to upgrade to Acela First Class. It's one of the Select Plus perks that I use pretty regularly. I get a coupon every year that can only be redeemed 12 hours before departure, and 4 coupons that can be redeemed 24 hours before departure. I've never had a any problems booking upgrades with them, and now that you can upgrade on the app, the process is much less of a hassle. However, now that they assign seats, I've gotten some pretty flaky seat assignments, and it is a little difficult to switch to a better seat 12 hours before departure.
> 
> Senior discounts don't apply to Acelas, but even if they did, it would be more worth my while to pay $120 (a typical BAL - NYP fare) for an Adult Acela fare and use the coupon to upgrade to first class. The senior fare only saves me $12, whereas the upgrade is usually worth close the $100.


Thanks. However, given that for 50 years we have always traveled together, we'd need to have two seats. We;ve only had one opportunity to ride the Acela because it's an LD ride to the NEC.


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## bratkinson (Nov 11, 2021)

I've routinely used upgrade coupons after initially purchasing the ticket with the senior discount or even the 'saver' fare (do they ever list that option these days?). When calling to use the upgrade, the agent has always told me I had to pay the difference between the discounted fare and regular 'full' fare...usually under $20 for NEC tickets. They asked if I wanted to use the same credit card as I bought the tickets with and of course, I replied yes.


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## jis (Nov 11, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> The best use for the upgrade coupons is to use them to upgrade to Acela First Class. It's one of the Select Plus perks that I use pretty regularly. I get a coupon every year that can only be redeemed 12 hours before departure, and 4 coupons that can be redeemed 24 hours before departure. I've never had a any problems booking upgrades with them, and now that you can upgrade on the app, the process is much less of a hassle. However, now that they assign seats, I've gotten some pretty flaky seat assignments, and it is a little difficult to switch to a better seat 12 hours before departure.
> 
> Senior discounts don't apply to Acelas, but even if they did, it would be more worth my while to pay $120 (a typical BAL - NYP fare) for an Adult Acela fare and use the coupon to upgrade to first class. The senior fare only saves me $12, whereas the upgrade is usually worth close the $100.


I used the upgrade coupons all the time on Acelas when I lived in Acela-land. But now down in Florida there are absolutely no opportunities to use them. Maybe if they allowed using two upgrade coupons together to upgrade from Coach to Roomette, that would be something.

But in general the AGR program is more suited for corridors with frequent trains and not LD, though under the right circumstances it can prove to be quite beneficial in the LD context too. But originally AGR was created to provide the Acela service a more level playing field to compete with NEC air shuttles. Back then AGR points could be converted to United points to book air tickets like any shuttle airline points could be used to book air tickets to exotic places.


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## MARC Rider (Nov 17, 2021)

I just logged on to Amtrak Gues Rewards and checked my upgrade coupons. In the section on "coupon restrictions" they have this to say:

"Upgrade may be combined with corporate, senior, disabled and military discounts. "

It cannot be combined with any other discounts, but it seems that they can be used with the corporate, senior, disabled, and military discounts.


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## neroden (Nov 17, 2021)

Technically not a "scam" but I've never managed to use an upgrade coupon. They are worthless unless you're taking Acela. Completely worthless. They don't work on Empire Corridor either, since business class is always fully sold out. It's a badly designed program.


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## Danib62 (Nov 18, 2021)

I'd say the only scam is that senior fares continue to exist when your average boomer has a lot more disposable income than the generations that follow.


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## me_little_me (Nov 18, 2021)

Danib62 said:


> I'd say the only scam is that senior fares continue to exist when your average boomer has a lot more disposable income than the generations that follow.


Bad whines are available on Amtrak too! 

Remember, we all get to be seniors someday, unless we don't stick around long enough.


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## Danib62 (Nov 18, 2021)

Sorry I think I came across more pithy than I intended. 

There are some interesting articles out there on the origins of senior discounts but basically they mostly came to be in the 1930's when seniors generally were fairly poor and price conscious compared to younger generations. Fast forward 90 years things are a lot different with Social Security, Medicare, retirement plans, better healthcare that allows people to work later in life, and good paying non-physical jobs that people can continue to do while they're older.

The one remaining disadvantage seniors have though is higher than average medical costs though to a certain extent that can be offset by Medicare and prudent retirement planning. 

Once upon a time I was economics student so I find this stuff interesting and hope some of you do too.


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## Tlcooper93 (Nov 18, 2021)

Just used my companion coupon for a roomette on the Empire Builder and it worked like a charm. So I that particular one is quite good! At the end of the day, it really only saved about $200 for the adult rail car charge, but still very worth it.

In terms of the upgrade coupon, yes they really are only useful on the NEC with the Acela. They toss them out like candy, mostly cause the AGR program is really tailored towards NEC individuals, which again, is problematic. I know it’s possible, but getting select exec outside of the NEC must be a feat! 

I ride the Acela more than a dozen times a year, and I wouldn’t make select exec this year were it not for the double points initiative they instituted.


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## flitcraft (Nov 18, 2021)

Actually, even with those supposed good paying jobs that seniors are allegedly doing, half of all seniors make less than $28,000 a year from all sources, including jobs, retirement plans and Social Security. Income of Today’s Older Adults | Pension Rights Center

Analysis by the Economic Policy Institute showed that the COVID recession hit those over 65 harder than it did other age groups, and their job recovery has been markedly slower than in other age groups. Older women and older people of color were and are especially hard hit. Older workers were devastated by the pandemic downturn and continue to face adverse employment outcomes: EPI testimony for the Senate Special Committee on Aging 

The economic data actually supports senior discounts, not refutes them.


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## Danib62 (Nov 18, 2021)

My biggest minor annoyance about the upgrade coupons on Acela is I keep kosher and requesting a kosher meal requires 24 hours advance notice for Acela first class and you can only use the coupon at T-minus 12 hours.

I generally make up for it in alcohol consumption though


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## MARC Rider (Nov 18, 2021)

Danib62 said:


> Fast forward 90 years things are a lot different with Social Security, Medicare, retirement plans, better healthcare that allows people to work later in life, and good paying non-physical jobs that people can continue to do while they're older.



One other disadvantage that seniors have is that if a senior (or even someone in their 50s) loses their good-paying non-physical job they have a harder time getting another one than the younger folks. It's called "age discrimination" and it's a real thing, if hard to prove in many cases. Thus, a lot of people are forced into retirement earlier than they need to be.

And many people do work later in life because social security and retirement plans are inadequate to replace the income from their jobs. Most retirement plans are basically investment schemes, which can be a very effective way of building wealth or total scams. If you're not knowledgeable about how investments work or don't have a competent and honest financial advisor, you stand a very good chance of losing your shirt investing in the various markets.


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## neroden (Nov 18, 2021)

Yeah, I've used the companion coupons. Far more useful than the upgrade coupons.


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## MARC Rider (Nov 18, 2021)

Yeah, a companion coupon would give one more bang for the buck if you're riding coach or sleeper on a long distance train, and the rail fare is a couple of hundred bucks each. Seniors would have to give up their 10% discount on the coach fare, but if the coach fare is $100, than the coupon give you a $100 discount on the two tickets. Two Senior tickets would give only a $20 discount for the two tickets. (If you take a sleeper, the sleeper accommodation charge is the same for one or two people.


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## me_little_me (Nov 19, 2021)

My 10% off coupons say:


> Coupon is valid for 10% off one (1) regular (full) adult rail fare for a single one-way ticket.


so no better than a senior fare.


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## neroden (Nov 19, 2021)

The 10% off coupons are valueless for seniors, children, college students, people with disabilities, their companions, veterans, active duty military, children of military, and members of Rail Passengers Association, who all get 10% off (or more sometimes) anyway. At this point it's starting to feel like more people get the discount than not.

So, also not well thought out. If Amtrak offered some 20% off coupons instead they'd be a more real perk.


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## willem (Nov 20, 2021)

neroden said:


> If Amtrak offered some 20% off coupons instead they'd be a more real perk.


Or if Amtrak gave 10% off the lowest fare for which the rider qualifies, rather than just the adult fare.


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