# Ideas for Amtrak to raise revenue



## MIrailfan (Aug 16, 2022)

How about sell wrap around advertising space on passenger cars? San Diego's Coaster does that. Another idea is giving brands their names on routes in exchange for money, i.e. the Under Armour Texas Eagle.


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## PerRock (Aug 16, 2022)

Amtrak does wrap advertising. The majority of the wraps are done on locomotives, but not always.
Currently Engine #662 is sporting a Train Sim World advertising wrap: 
Amtrak California has done wraps for SHNSF. A number of TV channels have gotten wraps for trains & cars on the NEC (TLC, Cartoon Network, Nat Geo, History, to name a few). New York wrapped a train advertising the state fair. Both Century Link & Lyft have had wraps for the Ski Train.

So no, advertising wraps are not uncommon. Although I feel like there would be an outcry if Amtrak sold naming rights... in fact for some trains I believe if they did they would loose the exsisting naming rights they currently have.

peter


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 16, 2022)

MIrailfan said:


> How about sell wrap around advertising space on passenger cars? San Diego's Coaster does that. Another idea is giving brands their names on routes in exchange for money, i.e. the Under Armour Texas Eagle.


It is so annoying on transit when they wrap the windows and it distorts the views. It would be the Amtrak thing to do, however. Might not be worse than the dirty windows.


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## TheCrescent (Aug 17, 2022)

I was surprised to see an ad inside the Acela Express recently. I’m fine with that; more money for Amtrak means I pay less (in fares or tax dollars).


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## Ryan (Aug 17, 2022)

Amtrak has a long history of doing this. This is over a decade ago:


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 17, 2022)

PerRock said:


> Amtrak does wrap advertising. The majority of the wraps are done on locomotives, but not always.
> Currently Engine #662 is sporting a Train Sim World advertising wrap:
> Amtrak California has done wraps for SHNSF. A number of TV channels have gotten wraps for trains & cars on the NEC (TLC, Cartoon Network, Nat Geo, History, to name a few). New York wrapped a train advertising the state fair. Both Century Link & Lyft have had wraps for the Ski Train.
> 
> ...



And 606 had a Coke wrap when they switched from Pepsi to Coke. Now 606 has this (my pics). And no it's not dirty. The black area has hieroglyphs


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 17, 2022)

Wrap presents not trains!!!

I actually don’t mind wraps as long as they cut out the windows so I have a clear view.


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## TrackWalker (Aug 18, 2022)

re: Ideas for Amtrak to raise revenue

I know! I know! How about providing sleeping cars on long distance trains?


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## amtkstn (Aug 18, 2022)

Keep trains on time.


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## Saddleshoes (Aug 18, 2022)

I don't know about other places but...
Chicago Union Station rents out the great hall for private events quite regularly. I assume revenue goes right into the Amtrak pot.


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## dlagrua (Aug 18, 2022)

In years past Amtrak ran TV , magazine ads and marketed the service more aggressively. They also ran a National Train Day event. Today we see little in the way of advertising and marketing. Advertising and marketing is a key part of any business growth plan. If Amtrak is looking to raise revenue, this may be the solution.


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## west point (Aug 18, 2022)

Why make it so complicated? Just fix everything and hire personnel to operate the equipment. KISS !!!!!


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## TheCrescent (Aug 18, 2022)

I have an idea:

If Amtrak wants revenue, it should run trains!

Starting with restoring long-distance trains to seven days a week.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2022)

TrackWalker said:


> How about providing sleeping cars on long distance trains?





amtkstn said:


> Keep trains on time.





dlagrua said:


> National Train Day





west point said:


> Just fix everything and hire personnel to operate the equipment.


These are all excellent ideas for increasing revenue.  If only we could convince Gardner to take any of this seriously. 



crescent-zephyr said:


> I actually don’t mind wraps as long as they cut out the windows so I have a clear view.


A brief trip on a wrapped commuter train is doable but for long distance trains it's no good. After spending thousands of dollars and several precious vacation days to ride a train with a giant hatching chicken on the front I turned against the idea of accepting any more train wraps. Did selling out to the Quebec lottery grant me any benefits in exchange for the hideous advertising? Not that I could perceive. Nor would I expect any benefits in the future.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 18, 2022)

Now if only we could convince Amtrak that revenue enhancement is actually a thing. Their focus is and has been solely on the cost side of the ledger. They'll lose a dollar in order to save a dime.


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## rs9 (Aug 18, 2022)

There are a lot of complaints here about the fact that Amtrak is run by former airline executives. I don't agree with all the complaints, but here's something I do find confusing. The airlines have created out of thin air ways to create incremental revenue - mainly the creation of more classes of service. "Economy plus" isn't really all that different than economy. Same seat, same seat width, same number of people in the row with you, the only difference is a few inches of leg room. And for that, there's a hefty markup.

Now I'm not asking Amtrak to start nickel and diming people for every ounce of service. The point is that the airlines discovered there apparently is demand for an in-between level of service from economy to business or first class.

The topic of services between coach and sleeper on Amtrak have been thoroughly discussed on this site, so I won't belabor that point. I just find it really odd that the airline folks don't see the market opportunity here. Though in fairness, I'm just saying random stuff and have zero market research to back me up!


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## Ryan (Aug 18, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Now if only we could convince Amtrak that revenue enhancement is actually a thing. Their focus is and has been solely on the cost side of the ledger. They'll lose a dollar in order to save a dime.


Demonstrably false given the number of threads where people complain about the high cost of their tickets. They're probing to be quite effective at revenue management.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 18, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Demonstrably false given the number of threads where people complain about the high cost of their tickets. They're probing to be quite effective at revenue management.


They're okay at revenue management, not so much at service improvements to raise ridership. Or even marketing.


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## MisterUptempo (Aug 18, 2022)

Golly, we just can't let Amtrak lose the farm. We just can't.

I've got it! Hey, kids, let's put on a show! 


But, seriously, the best way for Amtrak to increase revenue, right behind getting the fundamentals right, is to run more trains.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2022)

rs9 said:


> "Economy plus" isn't really all that different than economy. Same seat, same seat width, same number of people in the row with you, the only difference is a few inches of leg room. And for that, there's a hefty markup.


All these coach upgrades started as TWA's _Comfort Class_ which was a fleet-wide challenge to an increasingly cramped coach class. If only that service had succeeded long term. Unfortunately TWA did not survive and Comfort Class morphed into _More Room Throughout Coach_ on AA after they purchased TWA's assets. Comfort Class and MRTC did not charge an additional fee but did restrict pricing flexibility as US airlines began unbundling services into separate surcharges. MRTC was relatively short lived and was followed by paid upgrades named _Economy Plus_ on United, _Comfort Plus_ on Delta, and _Main Cabin Extra_ on AA. For tall people the extra legroom is worth every penny but you also get priority boarding, early overhead bin use, a reserved seat, and free drinks on AA & DL.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 18, 2022)

MRTC made me a very loyal AA flier while it lasted. AA since has tumbled from about the best legacy airline to about the worst.


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## Dakota 400 (Aug 18, 2022)

Saddleshoes said:


> I don't know about other places but...
> Chicago Union Station rents out the great hall for private events quite regularly. I assume revenue goes right into the Amtrak pot.



LAX Union Station has a large area, and probably other spaces, that could be used for special events. The area that I am thinking of has been used as a movie set.

I have posted this before and I am going to post it again. Keep the Cafe/Lounge car open longer hours and during long stays at a station (such as when engines are switched at Washington) could result in more sales and prevent the long lines that I have experienced when the SA opens it again.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 18, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> Keep the Cafe/Lounge car open longer hours and during long stays at a station (such as when engines are switched at Washington) could result in more sales and prevent the long lines that I have experienced when the SA opens it again.


Yes! Now hiring an extra LSA would decrease the profits. What needs to happen is other employees should be able to fill in for the LSA when they take a break. 

Also coach attendants should be making regular trips to the cafe for customers - like flight attendants. 

The “at your seat dinner” from the dining car was also an excellent idea.


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## joelkfla (Aug 18, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> LAX Union Station has a large area, and probably other spaces, that could be used for special events. The area that I am thinking of has been used as a movie set.


It's already being done. The large area to the left as you enter (I believe it's the Ticket Concourse) is normally closed to the public, reserved for events. Other areas are also available.






Union Station Venue Rentals - Now Booking Corporate, Socials, Weddings & More!


Welcome to Union Station




www.unionstationla.com


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 18, 2022)

Amtrak does not own Los Angeles Union Station so it's hard to imagine them making revenue off special events unless someone books a train as a backdrop.


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## TheCrescent (Aug 18, 2022)

How about running significantly longer trains?

So much of a railroad’s expenses are overhead that freight railroads, and Amtrak with the Auto-Train, do well by running long trains. As long as the revenues from adding an additional car to a train are $0.01 or more huger than the added expenses, it’s pure profit.

Amtrak ought to be leasing as many cars as it can find, adding them to trains, and marketing them heavily, at a range of price points.

Adding former commuter train cars to its trains, as an inexpensive third class? Sure, airlines call it “Basic Economy” and the like.

Adding European couchette cars (if regulators will allow it)? Sure.

Adding Iowa Pacific’s vintage cars, spare Via cars, etc.? Sure.

Add as many cars as two locomotives on a long-distance train can haul!


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## zephyr17 (Aug 18, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> It's already being done. The large area to the left as you enter (I believe it's the Ticket Concourse) is normally closed to the public, reserved for events. Other areas are also available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No benefit at all to Amtrak, since the station is owned by LA Metro and Amtrak is a tenant. Good deal for Metro, though.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 18, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> No benefit at all to Amtrak, since the station is owned by LA Metro and Amtrak is a tenant. Good deal for Metro, though.


Amtrak actually does not own all that many stations.


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## piemadd (Aug 19, 2022)

The really simple answer is running more trains with more cars.

In June of 2021, Amtrak lost ~$836,200,000 providing ~1,665,300,000 passenger miles, or a loss of ~$0.502 per passenger mile.
In June of 2022, Amtrak lost ~$724,500,000 providing ~3,381,000,000 passenger miles, or a loss of ~$0.214 per passenger mile. 

Really running more trains on existing lines and/or increasing capacity on existing trains will help with this. Of course we all know there are equipment shortages, but if amtrak had the equipment this would be the best way to go.


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## west point (Aug 20, 2022)

piemadd said:


> Really running more trains on existing lines and/or increasing capacity on existing trains will help with this. Of course we all know there are equipment shortages, but if amtrak had the equipment this would be the best way to go.


The links tothe PRIIA studies are no longer available. However the report of the Meteor said that adding one additional coach to its consist would increase revene over expenses greater than ~ $800.000 as best as I remember. The implied statememt was that that number would be for each added coach. Cannot remember if sleepers were listed but the much higher relative sleeper fares ----???.... Same report had Crescent but have no recall.


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## John819 (Aug 20, 2022)

When you add cars you are adding revenue less the OBS and the Assistant Conductors required. The cost of the engineer remains constant; I don't think the added fuel cost is much.

But Amtrak is short both equipment and staff.


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## MIrailfan (Aug 20, 2022)

TrackWalker said:


> re: Ideas for Amtrak to raise revenue
> 
> I know! I know! How about providing sleeping cars on long distance trains?


uhh they do.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 21, 2022)

MIrailfan said:


> uhh they do.


I think @TrackWalker meant to suggest "*more *sleeping cars".


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## Northwestern (Aug 21, 2022)

I think the way Amtrak can raise revenue is for Amtrak to really _want_ to raise revenue. I recently took an Amtrak survey, after a trip on the Coast Starlight in July, which seemed to only cover questions regarding on-time performance and a few mechanical and other problems with onboard services. I really would have liked to have seen a "fill in" field where you could list complaints and make suggestions for improvements and new services. Amtrak seems to want to "pop the hood" and fix problems, but doesn't seem to want to hear why new services and amenities are needed to take their trains into the 21st Century. How about a 2nd all-Pullman train, on a given LD route, with first class amenities and with limited stops.

For onboard services, a "foot court" car would be nice. Have it serve healthy food such as sandwiches, soup, and salads. Add some less healthy fast food such as pizzas, hamburgers, and Starbucks (or Peets, Dunkin, and Tim Horton for Canadian passengers). Baskin-Robbins for an ice cream cone. All could enhance revenue.

It seems like Amtrak needs to return to the days of Graham Claytor and Brian Rosenwald. Yes, tend to the bottom line but don't neglect the revenue enhancing services. I know of no corporation, industry, or business that can be successful if it doesn't offer a service or product that the public wants. But, maybe Amtrak thinks it's the exception.


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## Mailliw (Aug 23, 2022)

Allow coach passengers to purchase meals and eat in the dining car. Also a pay shower for coach passengers on long distance trains.


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## John819 (Aug 24, 2022)

Add business class on all LD trains (will require additional equipment, perhaps in the near future refurbishing the Amfleets replaced by the Ventures on routes through NYP and converting the CL and the CONO to single level equipment, freeing up Superliners.


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## jis (Aug 24, 2022)

John819 said:


> Add business class on all LD trains (will require additional equipment, perhaps in the near future refurbishing the Amfleets replaced by the Ventures on routes through NYP and converting the CL and the CONO to single level equipment, freeing up Superliners.


There are not enough single level Viewliner Diners and Amfleet II Lounges to be able to do that conversion reliably. 

Assuming that the conversions are carried out the Diner and Lounge allocations would be (assuming all trains other than the Card carry both a Diner and a Lounge) 12 of each required for SS, SM, Crescent. 9 for LSL, CL, CONO. And 2 Lounges for the Card. That is 21 Diners and 23 Lounges. 25 Diners and 24 Lounges available. So not enough margin for PM/BO and Protect. 

I guess most do not realise that the current single level LD fleet is rather precisely sized for running the current single level LD trains reliably and well equipped and not much else.


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## rs9 (Aug 24, 2022)

jis said:


> There are not enough single level Viewliner Diners and Amfleet II Lounges to be able to do that conversion reliably.
> 
> Assuming that the conversions are carried out the Diner and Lounge allocations would be (assuming all trains other than the Card carry both a Diner and a Lounge) 12 of each required for SS, SM, Crescent. 9 for LSL, CL, CONO. And 2 Lounges for the Card. That is 21 Diners and 23 Lounges. 25 Diners and 24 Lounges available. So not enough margin for PM/BO and Protect.
> 
> I guess most do not realise that the current single level LD fleet is rather precisely sized for running the current single level LD trains reliably and well equipped and not much else.


I think the business class question is multi-faceted:

- On the existing single-level East Coast trains, a reasonable criticism is that the half BC/half cafe car does not provide enough lounge space for the train. The question becomes, would it be financially feasible for Amtrak to run both a full lounge car and a half BC/half cafe car. The BC car doesn't need to have its cafe staffed and could provide additional lounge space. Theoretically, the Venture BC cars coming online at some point in the future should create a lot of slack for the half BC/half cafe cars.

- Amtrak could, however, choose to be creative with its business class offerings. A regular coach car with designated 1 x 2 seating, properly placed in the consist so there will be limited walk-through traffic, would be a win-win for everybody. It would require no special equipment to maintain, would increase business class seats that could be sold and would create a differentiated product for solo travelers beyond expensive roomettes. Of course, there would need to be a bit of capacity in the coach car fleets to make this happen. The math on this works - with previous LSL business class, fares were 60% higher or so for business class. 75% capacity in a car with a 60% fare increase still comes out as a revenue increase over a full coach.


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## John819 (Aug 24, 2022)

rs9 said:


> I think the business class question is multi-faceted:
> 
> - On the existing single-level East Coast trains, a reasonable criticism is that the half BC/half cafe car does not provide enough lounge space for the train. The question becomes, would it be financially feasible for Amtrak to run both a full lounge car and a half BC/half cafe car. The BC car doesn't need to have its cafe staffed and could provide additional lounge space. Theoretically, the Venture BC cars coming online at some point in the future should create a lot of slack for the half BC/half cafe cars.
> 
> - Amtrak could, however, choose to be creative with its business class offerings. A regular coach car with designated 1 x 2 seating, properly placed in the consist so there will be limited walk-through traffic, would be a win-win for everybody. It would require no special equipment to maintain, would increase business class seats that could be sold and would create a differentiated product for solo travelers beyond expensive roomettes. Of course, there would need to be a bit of capacity in the coach car fleets to make this happen. The math on this works - with previous LSL business class, fares were 60% higher or so for business class. 75% capacity in a car with a 60% fare increase still comes out as a revenue increase over a full coach.


Agree. And when the new NEC cars come into service there will be an opportunity to repurpose the existing Amfleet cars to add to LD trains. Of course, the real solution will come when Amtrak finally announces the new LD cars to replace the Superliners (probably single level).


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## McIntyre2K7 (Aug 24, 2022)

Maybe they should find a way to get rid of that 750 mile rule. Amtrak can add additional service without needing the states to fund it.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 24, 2022)

McIntyre2K7 said:


> Maybe they should find a way to get rid of that 750 mile rule. Amtrak can add additional service without needing the states to fund it.


The way is for Congress to change the law, since it is part of the PRIIA act and is a law.

I am sure Amtrak management wants that, too. They much prefer corridors. Their Connect US proposal contains a dodge around it. That dodge being that Amtrak will help states apply for Federal grants that the states use to fund start up costs and the first few years of service. Obviously with the intent that once service is there, states will pay for it to continue. Sort of a drug pusher strategy, the first taste is free.


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## marcoloco (Aug 25, 2022)

Before COVID hit, Amtrak was in good financial shape. The way they look at it, is what percent of the total cost of running amtrak, does Amtrak actually bring in. In one of their better years, I recall it was 90 percent which met the Federal Government just had to subsidize Amtrak very little. Since Covid hit, things went haywire, people stopped traveling, some trains were even cut to 3 days a week, which never happened before. So now that people are getting back to normal, it will be awhile before we get back to where we were (the 90%). Keep in mind Amtrak is a beauracracy and slow to adapt to reality and how much Amtrak pays the host railroads is something we don't know anything about (can the raise it, how to they figure it? etc.On most trains, Amtrak is still not letting coach passengers eat in the dining car. Amtrak is still, right now, in the COVID days


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## fredmcain (Aug 26, 2022)

I have long felt that as far as L.D. trains go, running head-end equipment carrying pre-sorted mail would help out a lot. I have always felt that Graham Claytor Jr. was on the right track with that.

Then later, Thomas Downs came in and by cutting most of the LD trains to less than daily operation, he lost most if not all of that business. I have always believed that was a mistake.

Later, that guy Ellis, or whatever his name was, (can't remember right now) tried to diversify into mail, package and light freight. But he made some mistakes. For one thing, he didn't make it completely clear to the freight roads what he intended to do and somehow stepped on their toes just a bit. Also, he bought a lot of new boxcars but failed to pay to have the necessary cables installed to deliver power to the passenger cars from the head end. So, the boxcars had to be placed at the back of the train and added on after the train left the station resulting in delays.

I have always felt that any mistakes Ellis had made could have been addressed and the head-end business model improved upon but instead, they "through the baby out with the bath water" and got rid of the mail and express business altogether.

I really wish Amtrak management would take another look at this but, unfortunately, they'd probably have to buy new equipment to carry mail with. If that ever happens, I hope they go the extra mile and install head end power cables this time.

Prior to Amtrak taking over in 1971, many passenger trains carried mail and express in equipment at the head end of the train. Growing up in the 1960s, I remember this well.

I also strongly agree with what others have posted in this thread that a great way to raise revenue is to have more trains that go more places, more often. Could carrying mail make a difference as well?


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## jis (Aug 26, 2022)

Ellis’s real name was Warrington. 

The real Ellis is the guy who owned Iowa Pacific and was involved in the Hoosier State misadventure.


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## Eric S (Aug 27, 2022)

jis said:


> Ellis’s real name was Warrington.
> 
> The real Ellis is the guy who owned Iowa Pacific and was involved in the Hoosier State misadventure.


Prior to Iowa Pacific, though, Ed Ellis was involved with Amtrak's express/mail operation, right? I want to say he was there in the late 1990s and/or early 2000s.


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## TheCrescent (Aug 27, 2022)

Amtrak ought to get employees to be nicer and more positive.

I’m on a train now, and when boarding and when having my ticket scanned, and when the crew made announcements upon departure, it’s all been borderline hostile, with no smiles or niceties.

Surely having positive interactions with employees would help.


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## Ryan (Aug 27, 2022)

Eric S said:


> Prior to Iowa Pacific, though, Ed Ellis was involved with Amtrak's express/mail operation, right? I want to say he was there in the late 1990s and/or early 2000s.


5 years in the late '90's, yes.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 27, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Amtrak ought to get employees to be nicer and more positive.
> 
> I’m on a train now, and when boarding and when having my ticket scanned, and when the crew made announcements upon departure, it’s all been borderline hostile, with no smiles or niceties.
> 
> Surely having positive interactions with employees would help.


Yes, but quality and consistency of onboard service has been a problem literally for decades.

The problem is it has never been a management priority and it continues not to be one.

To turn the ship around would require a significant cultural shift at Amtrak and will require years of specifc management attention and focus.

A good start would be to adopt VIA's practice of having an onboard Service Manager that the OBS staff is responsible to.


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## TheCrescent (Aug 28, 2022)

Amtrak ought to:

1. Be listed on Expedia (so people who are booking flights can see train options).

2. Join the Star Alliance, Sky Team, Oneworld or another travel points group.


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## mlanoue (Aug 31, 2022)

Amtrak (like almost every other business right now) needs to successfully hire and retain employees. Fewer trains would be cancelled, more equipment could be serviced and upgraded, and staff might be in better moods during the trip, which would lead to more passengers saying, "Maybe again."


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## Bfputtzman (Sep 9, 2022)

1) Daily trains. Customers can’t “count on” service without.

2) In states like IL that have state-supported service stations, long distance trains should stop at all stations. For example, only the state trains stop at Plano while the SW Chief and CZ both blow by the station. The additional runtime should be offset by the additional frequencies that customers can leverage in making trips to/from, increasing revenue.

3) Where Amtrak routes cross interstates, a coordinated Federal DOT effort should establish a station with direct interstate access and dedicated on-/off- ramps. Imagine the inherent advertising and “regional draw” when you don’t have to navigate off an interstate 20-mins through an urban area to get to the station.

4) Strike a deal with major rental car companies to base their operations at Amtrak stations, just like airports. This is particularly important at rural towns that don’t have Lyft/Uber. Want to visit Burlington, IA and go to the casino and water park? Avis and Enterprise are both in town, but the closest (Avis) is 2.4-miles and a 50-min walk per Google. Many stations have excess space inside and ample real estate outside, and perhaps this should be a “no cost lease” to guarantee the move from present location with justification that enabling your customers to get “beyond the train” will increase revenues. Even the smallest airports I’ve traveled through have this - for a reason.

5) Strike a deal with a major hotel chain to operate “hotel cars” on long distance trains. Imagine going to the Hilton website and being able to book a Hilton between Chicago and Kansas City on the SW Chief. The car is decorated, furnished, and operated by Hilton staff with service and food you’d expect from that brand at a price commensurate with their hotels in either city. Could it drive down the price of Amtrak rooms making them more accessible to the masses?


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## rs9 (Sep 9, 2022)

Bfputtzman said:


> 2) In states like IL that have state-supported service stations, long distance trains should stop at all stations. For example, only the state trains stop at Plano while the SW Chief and CZ both blow by the station. The additional runtime should be offset by the additional frequencies that customers can leverage in making trips to/from, increasing revenue.
> 
> 3) Where Amtrak routes cross interstates, a coordinated Federal DOT effort should establish a station with direct interstate access and dedicated on-/off- ramps. Imagine the inherent advertising and “regional draw” when you don’t have to navigate off an interstate 20-mins through an urban area to get to the station.
> 
> 5) Strike a deal with a major hotel chain to operate “hotel cars” on long distance trains. Imagine going to the Hilton website and being able to book a Hilton between Chicago and Kansas City on the SW Chief. The car is decorated, furnished, and operated by Hilton staff with service and food you’d expect from that brand at a price commensurate with their hotels in either city. Could it drive down the price of Amtrak rooms making them more accessible to the masses?



2) I would think Amtrak has crunched the numbers on station stops and determined that ridership isn't high enough to support every stop.

3) The problem is Amtrak / virtually all railroads use rights-of-way that existed before the interstate system. For example, in Chicago, the NS right-of-way out of Union Station intersects with Interstate 55 at a pretty random point of the city that would would make no sense for travelers who don't have cars.

5) I like the idea, but wouldn't a Hilton level of service be a step up from current sleeper service? Why would we expect a price decrease for roomettes/sleepers in that case? Acknowledging that Amtrak's pricing is a choice, in and of itself.


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## Bfputtzman (Sep 9, 2022)

rs9 said:


> 2) I would think Amtrak has crunched the numbers on station stops and determined that ridership isn't high enough to support every stop.
> 
> 3) The problem is Amtrak / virtually all railroads use rights-of-way that existed before the interstate system. For example, in Chicago, the NS right-of-way out of Union Station intersects with Interstate 55 at a pretty random point of the city that would would make no sense for travelers who don't have cars.
> 
> 5) I like the idea, but wouldn't a Hilton level of service be a step up from current sleeper service? Why would we expect a price decrease for roomettes/sleepers in that case? Acknowledging that Amtrak's pricing is a choice, in and of itself.



2) Maybe they have, maybe they haven’t. If they did, when? If not or they did a long time ago, maybe this is a valid current idea to raise revenue consistent with the forum topic?

3) Agree and I should have been more clear with my initial comment that I was thinking generally “beyond metropolitan areas,” certainly not the mile or two from downtown like your example. I’m thinking more like the I-80’s and I-39’s of the world on the outskirts of metro areas to draw rural crowds from a broader area easier.

5) Yes, I’d assume Hilton would be a step up from current. Comment on price reduction is simply the thought that with increased supply on a train and additional competition that price for current service may have to decrease (or quality increase), but the overall revenue should still increase if the demand exists now but isn’t being fulfilled (I.e. sold out rooms now?).


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