# Acela Express vs Eurostar/TGV/ICE



## Chessie Hokie

I had the opportunity to do quite a bit of rail travel during a business trip to Europe last month and thought I would share my experiences and observations with you. I work for the Federal government, so economizing on transportation options when traveling is always a consideration. I was able to justify my selection of rail and public transport due to cost savings over flying (with the obvious exception of the transatlantic segments!) and I was very happy with that!

It was a bit of a struggle to make the travel arrangements. The government contracted travel agent I was required to use didn't have much experience in dealing with either Amtrak or European rail carriers. I finally managed to squeeze Amtrak tickets from them, while constantly being asked "Why don't you just fly?" to which I responded the standard litany of arguments against air travel (I'm not a sheep that just follows the flock, ever earlier check-in requirements, packed into aircraft like sardines, etc.). I came away with the impression that the greater travel industry doesn't really consider rail travel as a relevant option for routine transportation (more of a niche market) and my insistence on it made me feel somewhat like a "difficult customer". The comparison to air travel is a valid yardstick to consider Amtrak service and operations, however, as, whether I like it or not, air travel is now the established "gold standard" as far as the traveling public is concerned. Unfortunately, it also appears that Amtrak attempts to emulate air travel practices at times (such as gates and restricted platform access), having lost some of the institutional experience of how to run rail passenger operations.

Though I finally managed to drag Amtrak tickets from the travel agent (and was surprised to find that, while a publicly supported national corporation, Amtrak does not offer government fares…and obviously the government makes no effort at all to utilize its own system), I had to make my European arrangements myself, which I did without problem online.

My first destination in England required me to fly into Stansted Airport to the northeast of London. The only US flights to Stansted are on American Airlines from New York's JFK Airport, so my first challenge was getting to JFK. Again, rail travel was much less expensive than flying to JFK from my home in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, I was concerned about taking the morning Amtrak Crescent to New York to make my flight connection, because the on-time performance of Amtrak's long distance trains is highly variable, with the Crescent starting its run the previous day 1,040 miles away in New Orleans. Much can happen to delay that train over such a distance, and it too often does…somewhat of a sad commentary on the dependability of Amtrak for making travel connections. So I opted to rent a car in Charlottesville and drive to Washington to catch a dedicated Northeast Corridor train to New York, as they have much better on-time performance, not to mention frequent service. Fortunately the major rental car companies have counters at Washington's Union Station (though their service hours are much reduced as compared to most airport locations), so I could drive straight to the station to turn the car in.

Upon arrival I went to the Amtrak customer service counter to make sure my Amtrak Guest Rewards number was applied to my tickets (the travel agent dropped the ball on that). No welcoming smile nor friendly greeting there, just a curt statement that I would have to go to the ticket counter for that. So much for customer service. So I proceeded to the ticket counter, where again I received no welcoming smile nor friendly greeting. Nevertheless, the frowning agent efficiently credited my number to the trip without so much as looking me in the eye, as though I didn't matter the least to her and she was just going through the motions of the daily grind. My attitude toward such surly behavior is that it is a management failure…management has either failed to properly train their personnel how to properly interact with customers or, having perhaps done so, they have failed to monitor employees to insure that standards are maintained. I find myself begrudgingly forced to admit that most airlines do a much better job of this.

I then had the pleasure of riding the Amtrak Acela Express high-speed train from Washington's Union Station to New York's Penn Station. This was my first experience with the United States' sole entry into the world of high-speed rail travel and I had been eagerly anticipating this ride. I was not disappointed. The trainset was sleek, modern and comfortable, though perhaps showing some ware and tear from use. I was a bit disappointed to see that it still sported Amtrak's trademark dirty windows (I have always wondered how Amtrak can tout the scenic advantages of rail travel while consistently overlooking this simple detail which can negate such advantages as would-be sightseers struggle to see America's beauty through a splattered film of grime on the windows).

The interior was attractive and the blue seats comfortable and roomy with a reclining back, retractable footrest and fold-down tray table mounted on the back of the seat in front, which was at a distance to allow me an unobstructed crossing of my long legs. Despite the aforementioned dirty windows, I was pleased to see that the windows were much larger than the unfortunate slits found on Amtrak's ubiquitous Amfleet cars (my comments about the scenic advantages to rail travel apply to Amfleet slit-windows as well), allowing a fine view of the passing scenery. Though Amtrak refers to their trains as "reserved seating only", this really only means that they don't sell more tickets than they have seats, so one is still free to find a spot that suits them. As Washington was the origin point for my train I had a good selection of seats to choose from and found a forward facing seat well positioned by an inviting window. This was a Sunday and the train appeared about 2/3 full. The train left Union Station right on time, and I began to feel that, alas, Amtrak has it right. The conductor came through to collect tickets…a somewhat rumpled older woman with a thick accent and big, heavy coat which made it awkward for her to negotiate the aisles…but still pleasant and efficient. The ride to New York was agreeable and relatively smooth. We were also traveling at a good clip, with a top speed of 135 mph in places and lots of running at 125 mph. In fact, the track profile can support speeds up to 150 mph, but antiquated catenary south of New York is the limiting factor (Acela Express does reach 150 mph on two sections of track between New York and Boston which have modern catenary). There was not an overwhelming sensation of speed, but we were obviously moving along pretty fast. The train covered the 226 miles in 2 hours 48 minutes (a respectable average of 81 mph), with stops at BWI Airport, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Metro-Park, and Newark before arriving at New York's Penn Station. All stops were on time and efficiently run by the crew.

Upon our on-time arrival to the grimy, dingy underground platforms in New York, I emerged into the confusing labyrinth that is the modern Penn Station, a mere shadow of the former magnificent station which was regretfully demolished in 1964 to make way for Madison Square Garden. I set off to find a Long Island Rail Road train to Jamaica Station in Queens, trying to discern the rhyme and reason of the station layout without much success. I had no knowledge of my location in the bustling corridors relative to the Amtrak arrival hall and the LIRR location (this was my first trip through Penn Station), but several signs pointed the way until I finally found myself in front of a long line of LIRR ticket windows. My next challenge was to find what train to take to Jamaica Station, and again I could find no coherent, readily available explanations for the first time traveler, so I approached a ticket window to ask an agent. My genteel Southern upbringing prepared me for the worst in my first encounter with a real live New Yorker in their native environment, but I was relieved to find the agent friendly and helpful as she sold me a ticket ($3.25) and sent me to wait for the arrivals and departures board to show the track number for the next train.

Here I did live a bit of the true "New York experience", for at that very moment a New York Rangers hockey game ended in nearby Madison Square Garden and suddenly a wave of seething humanity descended into the bowels of Penn Station in search of a ride home on the LIRR (fortunately the Rangers won the game and everyone was in a good mood!). So I stood with perhaps a thousand buoyant hockey fans, many wearing Rangers jerseys and hats, all eyes fixed upon the departure board for the track number to be displayed, which is normally only 10 minutes prior to departure. When the board finally clicked over to show Track 22 the crowd suddenly moved en masse in a mad rush to reach the track and board the train before its approaching departure. This went without a hitch, though I was nervous enough about having the correct train to ask some fellow passengers if this was "the train to Jamaica". I received a friendly reply in the affirmative and settled in to enjoy the ride, which left right on time and took us speedily on our way, with only one stop en route (Woodside) and took us through the remnants of the Pennsylvania Railroad's old Sunnyside Yard, at one time the worlds largest passenger coach yard, still used by Amtrak and New Jersey Transit.

Upon arrival at Jamaica after about a 22 minute ride I walked across the overpass which links to the new AirTrain terminal. Air Train is an elevated, automated rail airport shuttle service that links all of the individual terminals at JFK with the LIRR at Jamaica as well as the New York Subway System at Howards Beach. After purchasing my "MetroCard" ticket ($5.00) through an automated ticket machine, I awaited my train, which arrived in just a few minutes (5 minute frequency). I was then whisked away on a short two car train that resembled every other airport shuttle train I have ever been on, arriving at my terminal in about 10 minutes.

I will dispense with my flight details and brief overnight stay in England, as they are not rail related…though my rental and use of a manual transmission car with the steering wheel on the right hand side while driving on the left hand side of the road could make for entertaining, and perhaps harrowing, reading. Needless to say I arrived safely and conducted my business without incident.

Upon returning my rental car the next day at the airport, rather than flying to my next destination of Stuttgart, Germany, I continued my obstinate quest to use rail transport and again saving the American taxpayer thanks to my frugal prefernces. I bought a one-way ticket on the Stansted Express from a not particularly friendly agent, a train originating under the airport terminal, which would take me toward London. This train operates about every 15 minutes and is a typical British commuter setup with tight, but comfortable seating and little luggage space. As it was morning, the train continued to gather commuters heading to the city for work as we made each subsequent stop…something I had not thought to expect and negating somewhat the title of an "express" train. I disembarked at Tottenham Hale station in northeast London (though the train continues to Liverpool Street Station in the financial district of central London) in order to catch the Victoria Line underground (subway) to King's Cross St. Pancras, from which I made the short walk next door to the impressive and newly renovated St. Pancras Station , now the terminal for the next leg of my journey on the Eurostar train to continental Europe.

St. Pancras still displays its historic brick Gothic revival façade, but inside all is new and modern with a bright, impressive glass covered trainshed which delivers trains into the center of the station on tracks elevated 20 feet above the floor, allowing for the area below to serve as a fashionable shopping mall full of specialty shops and restaurants similar to what one finds in most airport terminals. While "national network" trains arrive on open platform tracks at the back of the station, the Eurostar trains take center stage and advance up the center of the trainshed to the headhouse, where they sit on display for the admiring soon-to-be and want-to-be passengers (I saw many people taking pictures of the trains). First stop was an automated ticket machine to retrieve my e-ticket. Next, British security requirements call for check-in for the Eurostar a minimum of 30 minutes prior to departure…otherwise tickets are subject to cancelation. Passport control and security screening is just like at any airport, except I didn't have to take off my shoes. But all of my luggage went through x-ray machines and I had to walk through a metal detector, after which, being perhaps a somewhat suspicious looking character, I was patted down to insure I wasn't a threat. Following screening we waited in a large room with seats for boarding time, which occurred about 10-15 minutes prior to departure. Glass doors swung open, an agent rechecked our tickets and we went up to track level by escalator. The Eurostar trains are isolated from the rest of the station by a security cordon. There were several Eurostar trainsets under the trainshed and I had the impression of powerful thoroughbreads calmly waiting in the stable for their next race. Each train was spotlessly clean and shiny (clean windows! Yes!). Each trainset consists of two engines and 18 passenger cars. These trainsets are about 1,200 feet long and can carry 750 passengers; 206 in first class and 544 in standard class.

When one has a train reservation in Europe (as opposed to Amtrak), you have an assigned seat in a particular coach. I advanced down the platform in search of Coach 14, Seat 15 and found to my pleasure that I had a seat by a large, clean window. The interior of the train was very attractive, modern and clean, but the seats were smallish, do not recline and too close to the seats in front (I was traveling in Standard Class). Being somewhat tall I found my knees cramped against the seat in front of me, on which there was a fold-down tray attached. Actually the seating was even more cramped than your standard airline seat…a disappointment. With a bit of smug pride I realized that Amtrak's Acela Express was significantly more spacious and comfortable than the "world class" Eurostar. The train left the station right on time and quickly picked up speed, even in the urban terrain of London, which displayed impressive new trackwork and infrastructure. In fact, regular Eurostar service from St. Pancras only began on November 14, 2007, upon final completion of both St. Pancras' renovation and the new high-speed rail line linking London with the Channel Tunnel near Dover. Prior to this date Eurostar used London's Waterloo Station. The ride was incredibly smooth and made more impressive by the speeds we were attaining, eventually hitting a line rated speed of 186 mph (300 km/h) and covering the 67 miles from London-St. Pancras to the Channel Tunnel entrance (with a stop in Ashford) in just 40 minutes. The train "slowed" to 100 mph through the actual tunnel, which took about 19 minutes, before regaining the rated 186 mph trackspeed for the sprint through the French countryside on its way to Paris. The ride was very smooth all the way, far smoother than Amtrak's Northeast Corridor high-speed line which was bumpy by comparison...Amtrak has a way to go in order to reach such track maintenance standards. We finally arrived at Paris Gare du Nord, 2 hours 25 minutes after leaving London and having covered a distance of 307 miles (average 127 mph, which includes the Ashford stop and "slowdown" through the Channel Tunnel!).

Upon debarking from the train in the Paris Gare du Nord (Northern Station) I was surprised to see that the same security measures for Eurostar were not in effect in Paris and that the train used the same walk-up open platforms as all other trains. In fact the reason behind the British isolation of the trains is for border control, as the UK is not yet a signatory of the European Schengen Agreement on open boders, thus requiring them to enforce border security and passport on their end of the line. From Gare du Nord it was a short 10 minute walk to the nearby Gare de l'Est (Eastern Station), where I had a connecting reservation on the famous French SNCF (Societé Nationale des Chemins de fer Français = French National Railways) high-speed TGV (Train à Grande Vitesse = High Speed Train) to Stuttgart, Germany. Upon arrival at the station and after picking up my eticket from the ticket counter, I realized I had about an hour to kill before my train departed and, as it was lunchtime, I decided to do something very French…I walked across the street to a café and had a wonderful meal of terrine de campagne, steak au poivre, pommes frites and a small carafe of Côte du Rhône. Then it was back to the station to catch my train.

The Gare de l'Est is a bright, clean, open station (as is Gare du Nord) with a trainshed which holds 29 busy tracks. Several of these tracks held TGV trainsets, which have an air of serious, mean, speed machines. They did not disappoint in that respect. I validated my ticket and walked down the platform to board the train, which I found to have a bright, futuristic, though somewhat utilitarian interior in deep red and violet colors, which was certainly an eye opener. Again I had a reserved window seat, though the window was not spotlessly clean as on the Eurostar (yet still far better than my Acela Express window). The seating was still smallish, but at least with more seat separation than on the Eurostar, yet the seats still did not recline. All edges and surfaces on the seat back in front of me (again including a fold down tray table) were hard and unforgiving on my knees. The footrest was also somewhat ill conceived as it does not fold completely out of the way. The cushioning on the seats was hard slabs with no apparent ergonomic contours, and I didn't find them to be particularly comfortable…yet marginally better than Eurostar and about the same as an airliner, but still far inferior to Acela Express and even Amfleet. Again leaving the station directly on time, we soon picked up speed as we left the Paris suburbs and were really moving. This train felt faster than the Eurostar, and in fact it is. This is a newly opened high speed line (opened June 10, 2007) which will eventually stretch 255 miles from Paris to Strasbourg on the Rhine River border with Germany. Currently only the first 190 miles of this line are open, after which the train reverts to standard rail lines which it shares with regular passenger and freight trains. But during that 190 miles the train gets up to 200 mph for several segments…and plans are to soon boost that up to 215 mph, making this Europe's highest speed rail route! Again I was impressed at how very smooth the ride was even at the highest speeds, and during some of the slower sections (still over 100 mph) it is so smooth that there is no vibration whatsoever…if it weren't for the scenery blazing past I don't think one could tell they were moving! Very impressive! During the prolonged stretches of maximum speeds I couldn't help thinking to myself "how long can it keep this up?" It was truly an impressive ride. When we reached the end of the completed high speed portion and moved onto regular rails about 60 miles short of Strasbourg we had a surprise…an equipment malfunction! We stopped and remained stationary as the crew attempted to repair what was apparently an electrical problem, being passed by several passenger and freight trains going the opposite direction on the westbound track of this double track mainline. Eventually they resolved whatever the issue was and we continued on our way, but eventually arrived in Stuttgart about 25 minutes behind schedule.

Due to the late arrival, I was glad that I had reserved a room in the hotel right inside the Stuttgart terminal (Hauptbahnhof)…incredibly convenient. I dropped off my bags and headed to one of the station restaurants for a typical regional specialty dinner of schwäbisher rostbraten, sauerkraut und spätzle, washed down with a tall glass of hefeweizen (I lived in Stuttgart for three years while serving in the Army, so I know the routine). After dinner I purchased my ticket for the next day from an automated ticket machine. An added convenience of staying in the station hotel was free use of Stuttgart's excellent public transport system, so I used the modern strassenbahn (streetcars) to reach my appointment for the next morning, after which I returned to the station to catch a noon train to Frankfurt for my next meeting and to attend a conference. Prior to boarding the train I grabbed a quick bite (schwäbisher maultaschen...a Swabian version of ravioli) at one of the many food and sandwich kiosks scattered throughout the station , which display an appetizing and seemingly limitless array of prepared delicacies in all shapes and sizes.

My next train ride would then be on the German Railways' InterCity Express (ICE). This is Germany's version of high speed rail service. I walked to track 9 to find the platform diagram of the soon to arrive train (coming from Munich) to know where my reserved seat would be. I was fortunate to find that my seat was in the first car of the stub end track into the terminal. Upon the arrival of the train, right on time, I boarded a clean, modern train that surprisingly had no locomotives…it was strictly powered cars (traction motors on the trucks throughout the train) lashed together in a very esthetically pleasing trainset. The inside of this train was truly beautiful, with curved wooden paneling throughout to break up the profile in a very pleasing manner…and comfortable seats! Finally! While still not nearly as roomy as Amtrak, the ICE had nicely cushioned seats that reclined to a very comfortable position…a major improvement over both the Eurostar and TGV. And the big picture windows were clean as well. I was impressed with the little details, such as electronic indicators of the destination of each reserved seat passenger on the wall above the seat and a really nifty information board that scrolled messages across what appeared to be a mirror at the end of each car. Another intriguing feature is that, as there is no locomotive, the seating compartment is separated from the train driver (engineer) by only a glass wall, with theater type seating behind him allowing for a great view of the track ahead (or in my case, behind, as I was at the wrong end of the train)…very cool! The ICE was definitely the nicest train I rode during the trip, though not quite as fast as the TGV (maximum speed on the Stuttgart to Frankfurt route is only 156 mph). We arrived in Frankfurt right on time. A great ride!

Following several more days at a conference in Darmstadt (just south of Frankfurt), I flew back to New York, arriving on Lufthansa 30 minutes late and having less than two hours to collect my luggage, clear customs, and get to Penn Station for my train! Luckily my bag was one of the first off the aircraft. I got through customs quickly, after which I reversed my earlier itinerary: AirTrain from JFK to Jamaica; Long Island Railroad to Penn Station; and Acela Express back to Washington. Everything went without a hitch other than an 8 minute delay in arriving in DC. Fortunately I still had time to make a tight connection to the southbound Amtrak Crescent to Charlottesville…had I missed that train I would have had to take the Metro to Reagan National Airport to rent a car (the Union Station office was already closed), which would have cost twice as much as the rain…again saving hard-earned tax dollars!

The southbound Crescent was a big change from the other trains I had taken on the trip. Unlike the open access platforms in Europe and similar to an airline gate waiting area, everyone taking the train is required to wait for the crew to change from electric to diesel power as the train leaves the Northeast Corridor and debarking passengers are unloaded. Once everything is ready, the door opens and an agent checks tickets before allowing anyone access to the platform. Prior to entering the train, an agent asks your destination and then determines where he will seat you (another version of Amtrak's lame "reserved seating" scheme), attempting to group people in coaches by destination. When I said I was going to Charlottesville, he checked a hand scribbled chart he held and then wrote a seat number on a small piece of pare for me and instructed me to enter the coach on the left. I found the entire process very amateurish and haphazard after the smooth operations I had experienced on both the Acela and in Europe. Upon entering the coach (requiring vestibule steps, as the platform is not at floor level) I found myself in a typical Amfleet tube shaped coach with luggage and winter coats seemingly strewn about in disarray and passengers of all shapes and sizes in various positions, the most part of which were trying to sleep. I negotiated my way to the opposite end of the car where I discovered that someone had spilled something on my assigned seat and it was wet. I noticed what appeared to be the car attendant of this problem, who said I would have to ask the conductor for a change of seats. Rediculous. I found the conductor on my own and he assigned me another seat without further problem. Dropping my bags off at my seat, I then headed for the dining car.

The dining car was a pleasant escape from the chaos of the coach I left behind. It was orderly and quiet, well decorated in pleasant pastel colors with white table clothes and flowers on each table. I was one of the first to arrive and joined a friendly woman traveling to Atlanta to visit her daughter. We were soon joined by another Charlottesville traveler, an architectural graduate student at the University of Virginia. We enjoyed interesting conversation, focusing on railroads and historic preservation. The wait staff was efficient and professional and the menu was appetizing. I orderd the flatiron steak with baked potato and mixed vegetables while my dining companions picked baked tilapia and beef tips, which were served following a tossed salad. My steak was cooked just right, tender and delicious. A small bottle of red wine and cheese cake for dessert rounded out the meal nicely.

It was a great trip and I feel very fortunate to have had this opportunity to compare rail systems.


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## Steve4031

An excellent trip report. I am at school now . . . and this was an escape. Now I got to go ride that new line from St. Pancras to the tunnel, and the then new line to strasburg . . . LOL


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## MrFSS

Very nice report - well written and exciting to read. Thanks!!


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## jackal

Ditto! Very well-written! I enjoyed it immensely. I'm going to have to try that new Paris-Strasbourg line, too. (Is that the same one they were testing the, what was it, 550kph TGV on and set the world steel-on-steel speed record?)

Thanks for posting and welcome to the forum!


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## Rail Freak

Chessie Hokie said:


> I had the opportunity to do quite a bit of rail travel during a business trip to Europe last month and thought I would share my experiences and observations with you. I work for the Federal government, so economizing on transportation options when traveling is always a consideration. I was able to justify my selection of rail and public transport due to cost savings over flying (with the obvious exception of the transatlantic segments!) and I was very happy with that!
> <<<< Snipped >>>>>
> 
> It was a great trip and I feel very fortunate to have had this opportunity to compare rail systems.


Welcome Aboard,

I am also a newbie and appreciate any tiny bit of info I can get on train travel!

Thanx for sharing!!! 

MT


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## DaveKCMO

great report and meticulously edited!


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## Cascadia

Thank you for your generosity in sharing your very interesting and well written trip report. What a great assortment of trains you got to ride and compare! Sounds like you had a wonderful trip.

When a person takes a longer tourist-type trip in Europe and buys a Eurailpass, it's good for First Class travel if it exists on the train you want. When I rode the high-speed train from Paris to Rennes, I was in First Class so I missed the cramped seating you described. Maybe someone can fill in if that's changed with the Eurailpass system.

They've done so much with trains since I was there, the tunnel wasn't open yet then.


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## the_traveler

An excellent report. Thank you! It makes me want to try some of them now!



Chessie Hokie said:


> my selection of rail... over flying (with the obvious exception of the transatlantic segments!)


You didn't hear about the new rail tunnel between the US and UK? :lol:


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## Sealink

This was a great report - I am travelling on Amtrak for the first time this year, on Acela.

St. Pancras is a truly beautiful station, and its revival after years of neglect is welcome.

Here is St. Pancras about four years ago: a very limited InterCity service to Sheffield, and a station down on its luck.







And here it is now - it just sparkles.


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## gaspeamtrak

MrFSS said:


> Very nice report - well written and exciting to read. Thanks!!



Same here great trip report!!!


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## Chessie Hokie

Sealink said:


> This was a great report - I am travelling on Amtrak for the first time this year, on Acela.
> St. Pancras is a truly beautiful station, and its revival after years of neglect is welcome.


Thanks, Sealink...I hope you will enjoy your experience on Acela. When are you traveling?


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## Green Maned Lion

I think a lot of the ride problem on the NEC is down to the design of the trainsets vs. the track itself. Especially on Amfleets. You will come up with a whole new definition of bad ride if you take an Amfleet across some neglected piece of CSX track. So bad it throws inexperienced Amtrak riders around the car and even down to the floor at times.


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## Chessie Hokie

Green Maned Lion said:


> You will come up with a whole new definition of bad ride if you take an Amfleet across some neglected piece of CSX track. So bad it throws inexperienced Amtrak riders around the car and even down to the floor at times.


Yes, I have experienced that. I sometimes take the Palmetto from Richmond to Charleston, SC, to visit my daugheter at the College of Charleston. Besides horrendous dispatching, it is a real roller coaster ride on CSX tracks. That is not to leave Norfolk Southern off the hook, though, despite their reputation of good trackwork inherited from both Norfolk & Western and Southern Railway. I meant to include in my above trip report what a contrast I found in the ride quality of the final short segment on the Crescent from WAS to CVS as compared to the NEC and what I had experienced in Europe. It was really rockin' and rollin' on that segment, despite the trackwork that NS puts into this line.

I am of the opinion, though, that trackwork can be made optimum for either smooth riding passenger trains OR very heavy freight trains, but not both. Smooth trackwork for passengers requires finesse and precision...something that increasingly heavy freight trains will crush out of trackwork in short order. Maintaining trackwork for the amazingly heavy freight trains that predominate in the US (which are much heavier than found in Europe as well as much heavier than during the "golden age" of rail travel in the US) requires a somewhat different, brutish approach to design and maintenance which doesn't lend itself to silky smooth passenger rides. Its apples and oranges, to an extent...you can maintain track for fast passenger trains or heavy freight, but it is difficult to do it for both. Freight cars in the 140+ ton range are very unforgiving on trackwork.


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## Green Maned Lion

The Superliners, btw, ride a hell of a lot better. As do Heritage and Viewliner cars.


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## Joel N. Weber II

Do any of those cars you're describing as having a better ride cars go as fast as the Amfleets, though?


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## Green Maned Lion

No, I believe they are all limited to 110. Perhaps the Superliners are limited to 100.


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## jackal

Chessie Hokie said:


> Though I finally managed to drag Amtrak tickets from the travel agent (and was surprised to find that, while a publicly supported national corporation, Amtrak does not offer government fares…and obviously the government makes no effort at all to utilize its own system), I had to make my European arrangements myself, which I did without problem online.


I thought I had posted somewhere mentioning a link or something to something about an agreement with Amtrak for federal employee travel, but now I can't find it. I found the real rail agreement between Amtrak and the federal government and wanted to update my post with the new link, but since I can't find my old post and because it's related to this statement, I'll post it here.

http://www.sddc.army.mil/Public/Passenger/...ary=fullcontent

Click "Military Rail Agreement" on the left-hand navigation bar to download the PDF of the actual agreement.

It was last updated in 1991, and since then, the GSA has taken over the airline contracts (with the CityPair program) and the MTMC has been renamed the SDDC (but still retains the car rental agreements), so I have no idea if this is still valid.


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## Sealink

Chessie Hokie said:


> Sealink said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a great report - I am travelling on Amtrak for the first time this year, on Acela.
> St. Pancras is a truly beautiful station, and its revival after years of neglect is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Sealink...I hope you will enjoy your experience on Acela. When are you traveling?
Click to expand...

September time. Counting the days!!


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## Neil_M

Green Maned Lion said:


> I think a lot of the ride problem on the NEC is down to the design of the trainsets vs. the track itself. Especially on Amfleets.


Is the NEC that bad? I had my first ride from DC to Newark last week and thought it was pretty ok, I presume the 'regional' services are Amfleet coaches?

It was certainly the best ride quality I have had on Amtrak, certainly better than the lame railroad you run on with the CZ and EB.....


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## Chessie Hokie

Neil_M said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of the ride problem on the NEC is down to the design of the train sets vs. the track itself. Especially on Amfleets.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the NEC that bad? I had my first ride from DC to Newark last week and thought it was pretty ok, I presume the 'regional' services are Amfleet coaches?
> 
> It was certainly the best ride quality I have had on Amtrak, certainly better than the lame railroad you run on with the CZ and EB.....
Click to expand...

No, the NEC isn't that bad. I was suitably impressed by the ride, particularly as I am more accustomed to riding Amtrak on freight rails (NS and CSX). Still, the ride on the Eurostar and particularly the TGV line was at another level altogether.


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## Green Maned Lion

The NEC isn't bad. The Amfleets, because of their inboard bearing trucks and durability-or-bust suspension design have a really rough ride. The Superliners, in contrast, ride very well, although their height accentuates their pitching motion- interestingly, their center of gravity is actually slightly lower than the Amfleet's.


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