# London to Glasgow Caledonian Sleeper Train



## coventry801 (Aug 7, 2021)

Found two interesting Caledonian Sleeper Train travel vlog/reviews.





Most modernist sleeper train I've ever seen. Interior style I think is close to Marriott Springhill suite.
Receptionist welcomes you at the platform. You get your key card for your room when checking in from station. Feel very safe and secure.
They try to offer a hotel like experience as much as they could, and the cost of single room less than $200 per night!

I think this is the only way the future sleeper train could sustain.


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## jiml (Aug 7, 2021)

Both of these videos feature the new CAF cars which had fairly extensive problems on introduction and were unpopular with regular riders.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 7, 2021)

jiml said:


> Both of these videos feature the new CAF cars which had fairly extensive problems on introduction and were unpopular with regular riders.


Oh, they're using Amfleet 2 sleepers on the Caledonian Sleeper, too?


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## Cal (Aug 7, 2021)

I’ve seen Dylan’s travel reports on this (go check him out and his Amtrak videos). In a perfect world Amtrak could be similar.


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## coventry801 (Aug 7, 2021)

Cal said:


> I’ve seen Dylan’s travel reports on this (go check him out and his Amtrak videos). In a perfect world Amtrak could be similar.


Yes in a perfect world. 
Still, even such a similar service established, say from SAN to SFO, I doubt a bedroom ticket would go less than $200. It'll be a blessing if a roommatte priced regularly at $200 and a bedroom does not hit $400. (Unless Amtrak is able to come up with 10 sleeper cars in a consist to lower the cost of average traveler.)


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## Cal (Aug 7, 2021)

coventry801 said:


> Yes in a perfect world.
> Still, even such a similar service established, say from SAN to SFO, I doubt a bedroom ticket would go less than $200. It'll be a blessing if a roommatte priced regularly at $200 and a bedroom does not hit $400. (Unless Amtrak is able to come up with 10 sleeper cars in a consist to lower the cost of average traveler.)


Although note that the distance of this service is far less than any full route of an Amtrak LD train. Maricopa to LAX is a similar distance and a roomette is $193 for that at a higher bucket.


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## jiml (Aug 8, 2021)

Cal said:


> I’ve seen Dylan’s travel reports on this (go check him out and his Amtrak videos). In a perfect world Amtrak could be similar.


Actually I believe Dylan Bowes did "before and after" videos of both sets of equipment, as did Mark Smith (The Man In Seat 61) and airline reviewer Paul Lucas. They're all worth watching for perspective on the changes. One of my best friends has also taken the service on the older trainset and even had the haggis which one of the reviewers shows. It's on my UK bucket list - the train, not the haggis!


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## caravanman (Aug 8, 2021)

I would be interested to hear what the problems with the new train stock are said to be, and why they are unpopular?
I took this sleeper ride to Edinburgh from London about 15 years ago, and the fare then was £15, about $25 US at the time!


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## jiml (Aug 8, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I would be interested to hear what the problems with the new train stock are said to be, and why they are unpopular?
> I took this sleeper ride to Edinburgh from London about 15 years ago, and the fare then was £15, about $25 US at the time!











Caledonian Sleeper boss to quit much-criticised service


Decision comes after Scottish transport secretary says faults will take months to fix




www.theguardian.com










Railnews - CAF probes Caledonian Sleeper faults







railnews.mobi













Various questions pertaining to Caledonian Sleeper: FOI release


Information request and response under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002




www.gov.scot





Plus some of the issues are covered in the YouTube reviews shortly after the introduction of the new equipment. Some seem to have been resolved, since the most recent ones are more favourable.


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## caravanman (Aug 8, 2021)

When I saw the operating company name as SERCO, I didn't need to read any further...


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## jiml (Aug 8, 2021)

caravanman said:


> When I saw the operating company name as SERCO, I didn't need to read any further...


Please elaborate if you're inclined. They do business here operating ATC at small airports and the driver testing program for the Province of Ontario. I've heard nothing good nor bad and had no idea they were in the train business.


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## caravanman (Aug 8, 2021)

They are an "outsourcing" business. They make money for shareholders by running prisons, and taking all sorts of govt. contracts. Funny how they can milk money from these contracts, and save the govt. money, rather than the govt. employing people directly? Lots of scandals have their name on, but of course, the directors are former govt. ministers, etc, etc.


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## jiml (Aug 8, 2021)

caravanman said:


> They are an "outsourcing" business. They make money for shareholders by running prisons, and taking all sorts of govt. contracts. Funny how they can milk money from these contracts, and save the govt. money, rather than the govt. employing people directly? Lots of scandals have their name on, but of course, the directors are former govt. ministers, etc, etc.


Ah, thanks for the detail. We have a company or two like that here too.


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## toddinde (Aug 8, 2021)

coventry801 said:


> Found two interesting Caledonian Sleeper Train travel vlog/reviews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This needs to come to the States.


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## Asher (Aug 8, 2021)

I’ve given thought to taking the Caledonian from London to Glasgow, but probably being a one and done trip for me, I don’t want to sleep through it.


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## JontyMort (Aug 8, 2021)

anumberone said:


> I’ve given thought to taking the Caledonian from London to Glasgow, but probably being a one and done trip for me, I don’t want to sleep through it.


As so often, it’s worth checking out the Man in Seat 61. The Edinburgh/Glasgow train, on the face of it, shouldn’t really work, since the daytime run times are comfortably under five hours. But it’s better than flight plus hotel for a morning meeting - which is what I was doing the only time I have done it. The Fort William/Inverness/Aberdeen train is a different matter, really aimed at the leisure market.
In operating terms these are uniquely biiiiig trains by UK standards, leaving Euston with a 5MW locomotive and 16 cars - just about fitting on the platform. They say half the charm of arriving at Fort William is that you’ve shaken off 14 of the 16 cars.


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## cirdan (Aug 8, 2021)

caravanman said:


> I would be interested to hear what the problems with the new train stock are said to be, and why they are unpopular?
> I took this sleeper ride to Edinburgh from London about 15 years ago, and the fare then was £15, about $25 US at the time!



I think the British Rail Mk3 coach was at the time of its introduction ground-breaking in terms of comfort, and has remained so practically to this day, with any new train being compared to it. Mostly unfavourably.

This was thanks to BR Research who managed to craft a vehicle with a very comfortable ride, even on imperfect track (of which Britain has plenty). Every construction vibrates, that is in physics of it all. But they crafted the Mk3 to vibrate at frequencies that the human body does not interpret as unpleasant. This was why the ride was perceived as so perfect.

Sadly British Rail Research and BREL were unceremoniously discarded or sold to people who just cherry picked and ultimately destroyed the entire knowledge base. This basically ended train engineering in Britain. The few trains that are still built in Britain today are basically just imported parts being bolted together IKEA style.

In contrast to Britain, many European countries worked from the premise that you need to get the track perfect. There was thus less incentive to build stock that rides well and this was not researched or understood to the same level as in Britain. With the passing of British industry, this knowledge was lost.


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## caravanman (Aug 9, 2021)

cirdan said:


> With the passing of British industry, this knowledge was lost.



So much expertise, knowledge and skills have gone from Britain. 

When one looks at the shipbuilding, the steelworks, locomotive production, etc, it seems a poor swap to be just assembling Japanese cars in a robotic factory...


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## Bostontoallpoints (Aug 9, 2021)

anumberone said:


> I’ve given thought to taking the Caledonian from London to Glasgow, but probably being a one and done trip for me, I don’t want to sleep through it.


I took the Caledonian from Inverness to London back in the summer of 2017. The train has been updated since. My thoughts: The sleeper cars were beat up a bit, kind of like the state of Amtrak sleepers today. Worn carpet, cracked sinks, door handles that fall off etc. It is a short overnight trip thus the rooms have beds only. The beds do not convert to chairs, so the room is a little tight unless you want to lie down on the bed whole time. The window was a little too small for viewing outside. The club car was nice, with a combination of couches, easy chairs and some tables and chairs. We went to the club car immediately after storing our luggage in our rooms. It was packed after 2 stops and people who tried to use the lounge were turned back with take away only. The food was decent, it was microwaved meals served on real china. Not too expensive, most people were just enjoying drinks and snacks. The views were breathtaking but once we passed through the Cairngorms Mountains it was dark and thus nothing could be seen except the occasional lighted train station. There was also a lot of turn-over in the lounge once it got dark outside. Around 11 pm the lounge was quiet with only 3 or 4 people enjoying a drink. The only time I saw my train attendant was when I boarded the train and, in the morning, when I received breakfast. In fact, I didn't even see the train attendant when I departed at Euston station. The breakfast was okay, just convection heated airplane quality sausage and eggs. But it was nice having breakfast in bed. All in all a nice trip and convenient and cost effective way to travel from the Highlands to London. It provided me with a long day of sight seeing around Inverness and Loch Ness without the need of a hotel room. Flying would have been too expensive. The daylight viewing was too short to enjoy all the scenery. If you have the time I would suggest taking a day train through Scotland instead. If however, time and money is concern definitely take the Caledonian.


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## JontyMort (Aug 9, 2021)

Bostontoallpoints said:


> I took the Caledonian from Inverness to London back in the summer of 2017. The train has been updated since. My thoughts: The sleeper cars were beat up a bit, kind of like the state of Amtrak sleepers today. Worn carpet, cracked sinks, door handles that fall off etc. It is a short overnight trip thus the rooms have beds only. The beds do not convert to chairs, so the room is a little tight unless you want to lie down on the bed whole time. The window was a little too small for viewing outside. The club car was nice, with a combination of couches, easy chairs and some tables and chairs. We went to the club car immediately after storing our luggage in our rooms. It was packed after 2 stops and people who tried to use the lounge were turned back with take away only. The food was decent, it was microwaved meals served on real china. Not too expensive, most people were just enjoying drinks and snacks. The views were breathtaking but once we passed through the Cairngorms Mountains it was dark and thus nothing could be seen except the occasional lighted train station. There was also a lot of turn-over in the lounge once it got dark outside. Around 11 pm the lounge was quiet with only 3 or 4 people enjoying a drink. The only time I saw my train attendant was when I boarded the train and, in the morning, when I received breakfast. In fact, I didn't even see the train attendant when I departed at Euston station. The breakfast was okay, just convection heated airplane quality sausage and eggs. But it was nice having breakfast in bed. All in all a nice trip and convenient and cost effective way to travel from the Highlands to London. It provided me with a long day of sight seeing around Inverness and Loch Ness without the need of a hotel room. Flying would have been too expensive. The daylight viewing was too short to enjoy all the scenery. If you have the time I would suggest taking a day train through Scotland instead. If however, time and money is concern definitely take the Caledonian.


Of course, one of the USPs of Scotland in the summer is the incredibly long hours of daylight. Even today sunset in Inverness is 9.15 pm. The grouse season starts on Thursday. A hundred years ago on the evening of the 11th the sleepers from London on all three routes would no doubt have been packed to the rafters.


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## mcropod (Aug 9, 2021)

JontyMort said:


> Of course, one of the USPs of Scotland in the summer is the incredibly long hours of daylight. Even today sunset in Inverness is 9.15 pm. The grouse season starts on Thursday. A hundred years ago on the evening of the 11th the sleepers from London on all three routes would no doubt have been packed to the rafters.



The same crowd (but different quarry) as 'The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable', according to Oscar Wilde


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## Bostontoallpoints (Aug 9, 2021)

JontyMort said:


> Of course, one of the USPs of Scotland in the summer is the incredibly long hours of daylight. Even today sunset in Inverness is 9.15 pm. The grouse season starts on Thursday. A hundred years ago on the evening of the 11th the sleepers from London on all three routes would no doubt have been packed to the rafters.



The train departs Inverness at 8:45 pm. So that gives you about 30 minutes of viewing today. I took this trip in July and like I said the country side turned dark in the Cairngorms.


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## JontyMort (Aug 9, 2021)

Bostontoallpoints said:


> The train departs Inverness at 8:45 pm. So that gives you about 30 minutes of viewing today. I took this trip in July and like I said the country side turned dark in the Cairngorms.


Yes, a couple of hours - as far as Perth - is all you will get, even in midsummer.


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