# Midwest flooding



## wayman (Jun 11, 2008)

This morning on 28 I overheard a coach attendant reassure a concerned passenger that the train wouldn't have any problems getting to MSP (her destination) but "might not be able to get into Chicago by rail" on account of flooded tracks. Now, in my experience car attendants are wrong as often as they're right... But is there any truth to this and actual likelihood of significant delays or bustitution around Chicago (on either the Builder or Thursday's outbound Capitol)?


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 11, 2008)

I have been trying to get train status info for the last couple of days but can't get any info at all on the site or via phone. When I call Julie than I get the "due to call overload, our operators are very busy".

Al


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## ourlouisiana (Jun 11, 2008)

Same thins with us, we have reservations on the CNO on the 19th from NOL to CHI. We called twice to speak to an agent to find out if flooding will cancel our trip, but had almost 10 minute waiting times each time we called.

Vacation coming, looking forward with much anticipation, status still pending.


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## ThayerATM (Jun 11, 2008)

wayman said:


> This morning on 28 I overheard a coach attendant reassure a concerned passenger that the train wouldn't have any problems getting to MSP (her destination) but "might not be able to get into Chicago by rail" on account of flooded tracks. Now, in my experience car attendants are wrong as often as they're right... But is there any truth to this and actual likelihood of significant delays or bustitution around Chicago (on either the Builder or Thursday's outbound Capitol)?


I was concerned about train 5 & 6, so I called Julie last night. I was able to talk with a knowlegable Amtrak agent; while it took him some time to find the information, he finally told me that service between CHI and SAC was complete. There is currently a detour around the "Moffat Tunnel" route, so train 5 & 6 are currently running up through Wyoming. No problem between CHI & SAC.


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## Ed T (Jun 11, 2008)

ThayerATM said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > This morning on 28 I overheard a coach attendant reassure a concerned passenger that the train wouldn't have any problems getting to MSP (her destination) but "might not be able to get into Chicago by rail" on account of flooded tracks. Now, in my experience car attendants are wrong as often as they're right... But is there any truth to this and actual likelihood of significant delays or bustitution around Chicago (on either the Builder or Thursday's outbound Capitol)?
> ...


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

The Empire Builder (7) hasn't left Chicago for two days, nor has 8 made it to Chicago for two days. We leave next week on 7 for the west coast. Hope it's running. Our first train trip and I don't want it ruined. Going to our daughter's wedding. Would have to drive if the Builder isn't running.


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## wayman (Jun 11, 2008)

rail rookie said:


> I have been trying to get train status info for the last couple of days but can't get any info at all on the site or via phone. When I call Julie than I get the "due to call overload, our operators are very busy".
> Al


When in doubt, ask a conductor! At MSP we will detour onto BNSF tracks and proceed straight to Chicago. All intermediate stations will be served by bus from MSP. At least, that's the current plan. Since we won't get to MSP until 7am Thursday, things could change, of course, and the crew boarding at MSP will be the ones with the authoritative answer. I assume this will affect 7/8 for the next few days.

Still no idea about whether the Capitol will be affected.

Also, random note, there are no Gardenburgers on Amtrak until further notice due to a recall. I don't know if that's tomato-related or what.


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## AKA (Jun 11, 2008)

I was on #8 yesterday. We detoured out of St. Paul on BNSF tracks on the east side of the Mississippi. Got to CHI non stop at about 7:40 or so . They held the Capital Lt. The Capital had its own problems and was very late into CHI because of a derailment somewhere on route. Bus ride out of St. Paul, to many down line stops.

We were non stop to Chi. A lot of water.

We also lost sleeper # 32057 in Minot ND. because of a flat wheel. Where put in coach. No sleeper space to be had because of sold out train. Very sold out. Some what relieved by the St. Paul busing situation. Food for all pax down line I dont remember where.

I am sure some of you will know more about what track was used. I took notes when I could see a town sign or hiway route #. I will try to figure it out later.

Amtrak always an adventure. I would not have it anyother way.


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## JayPea (Jun 11, 2008)

It sounds like the EB detour was along the old route of the Empire Builder back in the days of the Great Northern. I vaguely remember a trip I took as a five-year-old in 1965 along that route and I remember Prairie Du Chien, WI, and East Dubuque, Savanna, and Aurora, IL, as stops along that route. That route does indeed go along the east side of the Mississippi and then runs across Northern Illinois into Chicago.


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## dan72 (Jun 12, 2008)

JayPea said:


> It sounds like the EB detour was along the old route of the Empire Builder back in the days of the Great Northern. I vaguely remember a trip I took as a five-year-old in 1965 along that route and I remember Prairie Du Chien, WI, and East Dubuque, Savanna, and Aurora, IL, as stops along that route. That route does indeed go along the east side of the Mississippi and then runs across Northern Illinois into Chicago.


When I've taken the EB to Chicago, I've kind of hoped we would get rerouted on that side of the river just to see that perspective. I think it would be beautiful.

I'm curious what impact this will have on 261 as it is scheduled to head down to Milwaukee next week to operate excursions out of Milwaukee to the WI Dells. I was planning on heading to Red Wing to watch it come through, but I may be out of luck.

Dan


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## Guest_Fan_Trains_* (Jun 12, 2008)

Me, and my mother, and my stepfather are going to ride the empire Builder in two weeks to Seattle.


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## AKA (Jun 12, 2008)

We did go thru all the towns that JayPea listed. Some roads near the tracks and much of the area was under water. However no danger to the tracks at the time. Many small camping trailers were out along some high spots parked on high ground. The river was high and fast.


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## printman2000 (Jun 12, 2008)

Has the SWC or LSL been affected by the flooding?


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## JayPea (Jun 12, 2008)

AKA said:


> We did go thru all the towns that JayPea listed.



Now I'm worried.  I can remember towns I went through on a train 43 years ago but can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday! :lol:


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## wayman (Jun 12, 2008)

Coming to you live from train 28, a detour update!

We just (1:43 pm CDT) entered Illinois, proceeding southbound on the east side of Big Muddy though now weaving in and out of sight of the river. This morning, prior to a half-hour late (roughly) arrival into MSP, the conductor confirmed our detour and told all non-CHI passengers to detrain for bustitution. He also told passengers on Michigan-bound trains and the Cardinal to detrain for a fast bus to Chicago. LSL passengers were told to stay on the train, and anyone with questions was invited to talk to the conductor in the diner. Naturally about ten of us connecting to the Capitol Ltd flocked up there. He said he wasn't explicitly told we had to detrain to bus to our connection ... and said we could stay on-board but it would be tight. So here I am, and hopefully the conductor's word stands as a "guaranteed connection" in case we get held up.

So far we haven't had a single passing siding stop. Slower speeds and more miles, though. And we did stop briefly in the middle of the BNSF yard in La Crosse for a quick crew change (with lots of warnings to passengers not to step off). Maybe we'll make it to CHI by 6? 7? Maybe they'll hold 30 for us? I'm not holding my breath for time enough for a quick run to Giordano's, even if I phone in an order from twenty minutes before our arrival.

The river is REALLY high.

Oh, and the conductor said Amtrak anticipates this detour will be in place for 7-10 days.


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## dan72 (Jun 12, 2008)

Although not a direct Amtrak issue, I saw on the Trains newswire that the 261 excursion down to Milwaukee has now been postponed until August. Evidently the CP line is quite a mess between MSP and Milwaukee.

There's goes my plans... :angry:

An not that I have any good reason to complain. There are a lot of people whose lives are turned upside down to say the least due to all of this flooding. Keep them in your thoughts and prayers...

Dan


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## NativeSon5859 (Jun 12, 2008)

wayman said:


> Coming to you live from train 28, a detour update!
> We just (1:43 pm CDT) entered Illinois, proceeding southbound on the east side of Big Muddy though now weaving in and out of sight of the river. This morning, prior to a half-hour late (roughly) arrival into MSP, the conductor confirmed our detour and told all non-CHI passengers to detrain for bustitution. He also told passengers on Michigan-bound trains and the Cardinal to detrain for a fast bus to Chicago. LSL passengers were told to stay on the train, and anyone with questions was invited to talk to the conductor in the diner. Naturally about ten of us connecting to the Capitol Ltd flocked up there. He said he wasn't explicitly told we had to detrain to bus to our connection ... and said we could stay on-board but it would be tight. So here I am, and hopefully the conductor's word stands as a "guaranteed connection" in case we get held up.
> 
> So far we haven't had a single passing siding stop. Slower speeds and more miles, though. And we did stop briefly in the middle of the BNSF yard in La Crosse for a quick crew change (with lots of warnings to passengers not to step off). Maybe we'll make it to CHI by 6? 7? Maybe they'll hold 30 for us? I'm not holding my breath for time enough for a quick run to Giordano's, even if I phone in an order from twenty minutes before our arrival.
> ...


7-10 days eh?

I'll be leaving SEA on # 8 on the 19th so I'll be in the MSP area on the 21st. That's 9 days from now so I guess it's "maybe, maybe not" for the chances of the detour for my run. I'll be connecting to the 8:00pm departure of train #59 so hopefully things will work out. If not, oh well. It's all part of the Amtrak experience.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 13, 2008)

Due to flooding:

The California Zephyr is suspended between Chicago and Denver. Alternate train service for Chicago to Illinois stations. Bus service to and from Denver for stations east to Omaha. No alternate transportation to or through Iowa. This will last at least until June 16.

Empire builder is on an alternate rail route in Wisconsin (BNSF). Some missed stops are being served by bus. Also through at least June 16.

Amtrak Notice


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## frj1983 (Jun 13, 2008)

wayman said:


> Coming to you live from train 28, a detour update!
> We just (1:43 pm CDT) entered Illinois, proceeding southbound on the east side of Big Muddy though now weaving in and out of sight of the river. This morning, prior to a half-hour late (roughly) arrival into MSP, the conductor confirmed our detour and told all non-CHI passengers to detrain for bustitution. He also told passengers on Michigan-bound trains and the Cardinal to detrain for a fast bus to Chicago. LSL passengers were told to stay on the train, and anyone with questions was invited to talk to the conductor in the diner. Naturally about ten of us connecting to the Capitol Ltd flocked up there. He said he wasn't explicitly told we had to detrain to bus to our connection ... and said we could stay on-board but it would be tight. So here I am, and hopefully the conductor's word stands as a "guaranteed connection" in case we get held up.
> 
> So far we haven't had a single passing siding stop. Slower speeds and more miles, though. And we did stop briefly in the middle of the BNSF yard in La Crosse for a quick crew change (with lots of warnings to passengers not to step off). Maybe we'll make it to CHI by 6? 7? Maybe they'll hold 30 for us? I'm not holding my breath for time enough for a quick run to Giordano's, even if I phone in an order from twenty minutes before our arrival.
> ...


Did you pass through Naperville last night about 5:30pm? If so, I might have seen your train when my Metra train was headed in the opposite direction.


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## wayman (Jun 13, 2008)

No, we went through Naperville around 7:45pm (I remember because that was the (accurate) 45 minutes to arrival announcement at which point they closed the sightseer lounge for cleanup prior to arrival.


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## ThayerATM (Jun 13, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Due to flooding:
> The California Zephyr is suspended between Chicago and Denver. Alternate train service for Chicago to Illinois stations. Bus service to and from Denver for stations east to Omaha. No alternate transportation to or through Iowa. This will last at least until June 16.
> 
> Empire builder is on an alternate rail route in Wisconsin (BNSF). Some missed stops are being served by bus. Also through at least June 16.
> ...


Sweet. <_<

I called Julie this morning, and it appears that I have no options other than to cancel the trip with Amtrak. There's no way to use Amtrak to get from ROC to SAC on the dates we need. Delaying the trip a couple of days was no good, as all seats on the later trains were booked full.

In a hurry, today we elected to fly from ROC to SAC (or SMF, as the airline calls it). Interestingly, the round trip ticket on US AIR for the two of us is half the price of the round trip train ticket for the two of us, although we both think that that the train would have been a lot more fun. 

Mother Nature just didn't seem to be in a cooperative mood on this Friday the 13th. <_<


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2008)

ThayerATM said:


> Sweet. <_< I called Julie this morning, and it appears that I have no options other than to cancel the trip with Amtrak. There's no way to use Amtrak to get from ROC to SAC on the dates we need. Delaying the trip a couple of days was no good, as all seats on the later trains were booked full.
> 
> In a hurry, today we elected to fly from ROC to SAC (or SMF, as the airline calls it). Interestingly, the round trip ticket on US AIR for the two of us is half the price of the round trip train ticket for the two of us, although we both think that that the train would have been a lot more fun.
> 
> Mother Nature just didn't seem to be in a cooperative mood on this Friday the 13th. <_<


Sorry to hear that. That is the nightmare scenario for me. I consider the traveling as part of the vacation. Air travel is definitely not. We are on the SWC and LSL next week. So far so good for those two trains, however, then seem to come awful close to all this flooding.


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## JayPea (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm supposed to take the EB from Spokane to Seattle on the 18th. I see the EB hasn't run at all the last couple of days. I'm supposed to go from Spokane on the EB, Seattle-Eugene and Eugene-Portland on the Cascades and Portland-Spokane on the EB. There are many ways to get from Spokane to Seattle other than by Amtrak, but taking the train is much more fun. Hopefully they'll be up and running by next week.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 13, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet. <_< I called Julie this morning, and it appears that I have no options other than to cancel the trip with Amtrak. There's no way to use Amtrak to get from ROC to SAC on the dates we need. Delaying the trip a couple of days was no good, as all seats on the later trains were booked full.
> ...


Please continue your travel info!!!


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## AlanB (Jun 13, 2008)

JayPea said:


> I'm supposed to take the EB from Spokane to Seattle on the 18th. I see the EB hasn't run at all the last couple of days. I'm supposed to go from Spokane on the EB, Seattle-Eugene and Eugene-Portland on the Cascades and Portland-Spokane on the EB. There are many ways to get from Spokane to Seattle other than by Amtrak, but taking the train is much more fun. Hopefully they'll be up and running by next week.


The EB has been running for the past few days, it's just taking a detour route between MSP and CHI. But that messes up the computers, which then report a service disruption. But member Wayman just came off a detoured EB, as noted in another topic.


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## JayPea (Jun 13, 2008)

AlanB said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > I'm supposed to take the EB from Spokane to Seattle on the 18th. I see the EB hasn't run at all the last couple of days. I'm supposed to go from Spokane on the EB, Seattle-Eugene and Eugene-Portland on the Cascades and Portland-Spokane on the EB. There are many ways to get from Spokane to Seattle other than by Amtrak, but taking the train is much more fun. Hopefully they'll be up and running by next week.
> ...



I did see that and was aware that the EB was detoured over the old Great Northern route. What had me concerned, however, is that while it did list the EB running from MSP and points west yesterday, there's no indication of that today at all and I was worried that possibly it hasn't run over the detour route as well.


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## printman2000 (Jun 13, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > ThayerATM said:
> ...


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that. Do you want more of my itinerary?


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## Guest_moonbeam_* (Jun 13, 2008)

Does anyone know if the EB is definitely running (on a detoured route) from Chicago to MSP?

I am leaving Philadelphia tomorrow (Saturday) on the Pennsylvanian (#43) and am transferring to the Cap Limited (#29)

in Pittsburgh to Chicago, where I should be taking the EB (#7) on Sunday to Seattle.

I spoke to Amtrak this afternoon and they guy told me they would put me on a bus from CHI to MSP,

and then get on the EB at MSP.

Does anyone know if this is true, because I read somewhere else that the EB was running from CHI to SEA,

but they were just taking different tracks between CHI and MSP.

I'm also scheduled to be coming back on the CZ on the 21st of June from Sacramento to CHI. I hope they

have that running by then.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jun 14, 2008)

I just got home from a trip on the Empire Builder and arrived into Chicago yesterday (June 13th). The day before, I had heard the crew talking about a detour, and our attendant later confirmed that the train would be detouring east of MSP, as previously described here, with busses for connecting passengers. However, that night, the crew started saying that the train might be annulled totally in St. Paul, and the next morning, there was an announcement that everyone would have to detrain and board buses in the MSP because the BNSF detour route was also closed.

So, we arrived a little over an hour late into Midway Station at 8:15, and everyone proceeded to the station, where a long line stretched from a desk on the street side of the station all the way to the platform. One by one, each party went up to that desk, and was assigned to a bus. There were about five buses, but none of the would be serving Columbus or Portage because apparently they couldn't even get buses into those areas. I'm not sure I believe that--maybe Amtrak just didn't feel like taking the time to drive around flood waters to access the stations. Anyway, we finally got to the desk, boarded our assigned bus, and departed MSP by 9am.

A little before 11am, we pulled off I-94 in Osseo, WI, and the driver said that everyone could get off the bus to eat lunch at a Subway joint, and proceeded to tell us that they needed to find a new route because I-94 was closed...wonder why they needed to stop to do that with 2 drivers. Apparently, Amtrak had arranged for free lunch at a Burger King at exit 87, but the drivers were unable to find that exit--they said it didn't exist!

By 11:45, everyone was back on the bus, and we departed, soon exiting the interstate and taking route 21, where we encountered a lot of traffic, probably because of the closure. A few hours later, we finally merged onto I-39, but going NORTH! We finally exited and took another smaller road whose name I can't remember. The drivers seemed confused, and asked to borrow my map. Around 2pm, we pulled into a gas station, but there was absolutely no explanation from the drivers, so a few people got off and the rest stayed on, as everyone quickly lost faith in these drivers, especially as we saw one returning from the store with none other than an atlas! We finally got on highway 41 south in Oshkosh, WI, and reached Milwaukee around 7, where we encountered more traffic. As the Sears Tower came into view and we started crossing under Metra railroad bridges every few minutes, I thought this might be over, but that was not to be. We arrived in CUS at 7:50pm, 3 hours and 55 minutes late. The 2 buses parked right on busy Canal Street, trapping several taxis, who immediately lay on the horns.

We emerged from the bus to find a chaotic mess of luggage and people, with no Amtrak personnel in sight and a bunch of angry drivers and taxis. As the drivers pulled every last bit of checked luggage out of the buses, and dumped it on the sidewalk and some of it in the street, people began searching for their bags, but some of it was not to be found. Several Redcaps came out of the station, and we and several other people asked him about our bags. Some people weren't so friendly--one lady screamed at him that she would sue him for every piece of luggage she didn't have! He wasn't sure exactly what was going on, but soon found out from Amtrak that there were only two buses. He took us down to Passenger Services, where they told us to go to "Lounge G". Apparently, this is a room that is used for passengers who miss connections or have other problems such as hours but is also a wi-fi hotspot. We waited in a long line of people from our train in this messy room, with computers strewn everywhere and only a few agents handling passengers. We decided to come back the next day, and the next morning, we did indeed find our luggage, which had probably come in on a later bus which made stops at the missed stations.

I could comment forever about what Amtrak should have done better, but I understand that this is a difficult situation, and we were the first train to be totally cancelled. This turned out a lot longer than I intended...I'll post a trip report of the full trip later.


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## Radparker (Jun 14, 2008)

I've eaten at that very Burger King, courtesy of Amtrak. The EB was super late arriving to MSP one time, so they took us from MSP to CUS on buses, and stopped at that Burger King and Amtrak provided lunch. I can't say it was great, but I was happy that Amtrak took care of us.

I'd probably try to cut the drivers some slack on their long and winding journey through the nether regions of Wisconsin. Get off of 94/39 and it's easy to get lost; been there, done that.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 14, 2008)

AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> By 11:45, everyone was back on the bus, and we departed, soon exiting the interstate and taking route 21, where we encountered a lot of traffic, probably because of the closure. A few hours later, we finally merged onto I-39, but going NORTH! We finally exited and took another smaller road whose name I can't remember. The drivers seemed confused, and asked to borrow my map. Around 2pm, we pulled into a gas station, but there was absolutely no explanation from the drivers, so a few people got off and the rest stayed on, as everyone quickly lost faith in these drivers, especially as we saw one returning from the store with none other than an atlas! We finally got on highway 41 south in Oshkosh, WI, and reached Milwaukee around 7, where we encountered more traffic. As the Sears Tower came into view and we started crossing under Metra railroad bridges every few minutes, I thought this might be over, but that was not to be. We arrived in CUS at 7:50pm, 3 hours and 55 minutes late. The 2 buses parked right on busy Canal Street, trapping several taxis, who immediately lay on the horns.


I think I personally would see acquiring a missing tool (the atlas) in that situation to be a good sign. And I certainly wouldn't want to strand myself at a gas station in the middle of nowhere.

Getting lost when traveling in unfamiliar territory also isn't unique to buses in the midwest. I was talking with an MBTA inspector today who mentioned that some of the bus drivers from across town got lost trying follow the Red Line route from Kendall to JFK. (We had scheduled bustitution because of track work on the Longfellow bridge. Then this afternoon there was an unscheduled fire near South Station that dramatically extended the length of the bustitution.)


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## wayman (Jun 14, 2008)

Oof! :blink: Well, first and most important, I'm glad you made it home!



AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> However, that night, the crew started saying that the train might be annulled totally in St. Paul, and the next morning, there was an announcement that everyone would have to detrain and board buses in the MSP because the BNSF detour route was also closed.


.

I had no idea I'd be on the last EB eastbound from MSP, though I started wondering about the safety of the BNSF detour once I was traveling down the Hudson on the LSL. When the LSL skirts the riverbank, it looked like there was always a good six feet or more of elevation difference between railbed and waterlevel, with maybe a 45-degree rocky slope down to the river. On the BNSF detour, that elevation difference was maybe two feet.

Is the detour closed to all traffic, or just to Amtrak? Do we know?

I can forgive the drivers not knowing how best to get from MSP to CHI, given that they probably don't drive that route regularly and they certainly wouldn't have practice doing it with the Interstate closed and heavy traffic. I can forgive the drivers not being skilled at unloading at CHI (though it sounds like they weren't just unskilled, but totally inept at unloading luggage).

But Amtrak should have gotten the right bags on the right buses. And Amtrak should have Met You At CHI, At The Buses, and taken care of you from there. That they didn't do that for you, and didn't do that for my EB a day earlier (meeting us on the platform) is just inexcusable, given how much advance time they had to prepare for passengers' late arrival.

At least you arrived well in time (as did we) for anyone connecting to the LSL, for getting people who need them to hotels before 10pm, etc. It sounds like every connecting train except the LSL was missed (unlike in our case, where I assume the buses from MSP got to CHI in time for people to make the Cardinal and Michigan trains... don't know for sure either way, though).

Here's hoping that after two days of blowing it, they'll start to develop a routine and get it right. They've got a week of this to deal with, it sounds like.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jun 14, 2008)

If Amtrak used the same charter company since the 10th or whenever the detour/busing for connecting passengers started, then they should be able to find their way, but I guess I was a little harsh on them...the only thing that should have been handled much better was the baggage situation. I'm pretty sure the BNSF route is closed to all traffic--the crew said that one or more bridges were "washed out"-whether that means collapsed or just underwater.


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## Radparker (Jun 14, 2008)

Yeah, definitely agree that the way the handled luggage sounds like it sucked. That's not cool; they ought to be able to get a bag from point A to point B.


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## ed (Jun 14, 2008)

OK - I need help. Am traveling EB (7) on Wednesday the 18th out of Chicago to the west coast. I am a big guy - 6'5' AND 280. My wife is not small either. How much room is there on these buses between seats. Am I going to be squashed? Still time to book a plane or drive. Don't want to but may have to. Must leave that date if driving.

Anyone?

Thanks!!!!!


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## AlanB (Jun 14, 2008)

AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> If Amtrak used the same charter company since the 10th or whenever the detour/busing for connecting passengers started, then they should be able to find their way, but I guess I was a little harsh on them...the only thing that should have been handled much better was the baggage situation. I'm pretty sure the BNSF route is closed to all traffic--the crew said that one or more bridges were "washed out"-whether that means collapsed or just underwater.


Even if Amtrak did use the same bus company, SO WHAT?

Bus drivers have hours of service laws too, so the odds are good that it wasn't the same drivers. There were probably already down in Chicago. And Amtrak didn't bus everyone the first few days, only those getting off in between CUS and MSP, so that means that less buses and drivers were needed. Finally, during the first few days that buses might have been running, I-94 wasn't closed.

This is a very dynamic situation that is changing daily. Frankly IMHO you should be down on your knees thanking those drivers for even agreeing to drive those buses under those conditions. Sorry to be harsh, but quite honestly under the tragic circumstances that are seeing floods at levels never seen before, you're lucky that you weren't left standing in MSP.

Now I won't disagree that some aspects of things could have been done better, like having people meet the buses at CUS, having more staff and computers in room G, and stuff like that. Although it also needs to be remembered that it's not just the EB that's being affected by this. The CZ is also cancelled between CUS and points further west. But still it does sound like they could have done a bit better on things at CUS.

But again, this is a dynamic and very difficult situation for anyone to handle. We're approaching the magnatude of loosing both Midway and O'Hare to a 5 day blizzard in Chicago. This is not a situation where one can snap a few fingers and fix things. Sorry.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 15, 2008)

ed said:


> OK - I need help. Am traveling EB (7) on Wednesday the 18th out of Chicago to the west coast. I am a big guy - 6'5' AND 280. My wife is not small either. How much room is there on these buses between seats. Am I going to be squashed? Still time to book a plane or drive. Don't want to but may have to. Must leave that date if driving.


I don't think there is any guarantee about how much legroom will happen to be available on whichever random bus Amtrak ends up finding for your particular trip.


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## NativeSon5859 (Jun 15, 2008)

Looks like the cancellation in MSP was only for one day....at least according to Amtrak.com. The latest advisory mentions the BNSF detour but nothing about the bussing on MSP-CHI. It looks like they just posted the original advisory again which was sent out on June 13th.

Empire Builder, Trains 7/27/807 & 8/28/808

Service by the Empire Builder to all points in Wisconsin, plus Red Wing and Winona, Minn., has been temporarily suspended since June 10, due to flooding on the Canadian Pacific Railway route and a resulting detour on the BNSF Railway.

Alternate transportation by chartered motorcoach has been provided to Minnesota and Wisconsin points, but flooding conditions have led to a temporary suspension of alternate transportation for the Empire Builder to and from Wisconsin Dells, Portage, Columbus and Milwaukee, Wisc., and Glenview, Ill., effective June 13. Amtrak Hiawatha Service trains are available as alternate transportation to and from Glenview and Milwaukee.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 15, 2008)

The Empire Builder is not operating between Chicago and Minneapolis until at least Tuesday (6/17). Both the CP and BNSF routes are closed.



> *Empire Builder, Trains 7/27/807 & 8/28/808*
> Service by the Empire Builder between St. Paul and Chicago is temporarily suspended due to flooding on the Canadian Pacific Railway route, effective June 10, and the closing of a detour route on the BNSF Railway, effective June 15.
> 
> Alternate transportation by chartered motorcoach will be provided between St. Paul and Chicago, with the exceptions of Portage, Columbus and Milwaukee, Wisc., and Glenview, Ill. Amtrak Hiawatha Service trains are available as alternate transportation to and from Glenview and Milwaukee.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jun 15, 2008)

AlanB said:


> AmtrakCrescent20 said:
> 
> 
> > If Amtrak used the same charter company since the 10th or whenever the detour/busing for connecting passengers started, then they should be able to find their way, but I guess I was a little harsh on them...the only thing that should have been handled much better was the baggage situation. I'm pretty sure the BNSF route is closed to all traffic--the crew said that one or more bridges were "washed out"-whether that means collapsed or just underwater.
> ...


Sorry, I should have clarified, it wasn't just the drivers who couldn't find their way, and i wouldn't expect them to be able to themselves, but it was the bus company who was giving the drivers directions by radio. But still I think you're right, considering the situation..I'm just now finding out about how much flooding there really was.


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## Radparker (Jun 15, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> ed said:
> 
> 
> > OK - I need help. Am traveling EB (7) on Wednesday the 18th out of Chicago to the west coast. I am a big guy - 6'5' AND 280. My wife is not small either. How much room is there on these buses between seats. Am I going to be squashed? Still time to book a plane or drive. Don't want to but may have to. Must leave that date if driving.
> ...


Yeah, but you can make a good guess; seems like those type of buses are all very similar. If you've ever ridden Megabus or Greyhound, or a longer-run commuter bus line (that has "nice buses" compared to locals), that's likely what you're going to end up on. That is indeed what I ended up on the one time Amtrak bussed me from MSP to CUS.

If I were Ed and I was pretty sure I was going to end up on a bus, I'd find another way to go. It is not roomy at all. It's just a bus, and you'll be squished. It didn't kill me -- and I take the Megabus periodically so I'm no stranger to the bus -- but if I had time and money to fly instead, I likely would. Much shorter time squished on a plane, versus a much longer time squished on a bus.


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 15, 2008)

Ok...we leave for NYC via CHI from LNK in just 10 days. Today I looked at renting a car (too expensive) SWA (expensive but do you book 1 way or RT?!?) :angry: Greyhound (it almost took as much time to navigate thier website as it does to get to CHI......12 hours!) :angry: So I figure if worst comes to worst, we can just plain old drive to Chicago and board the Lakeshore. Is this jumping the gun on all of this flooding? We were going to keep this quiet from my girlfriends girls but their dad brought it up and now we have two teens saying, "we can't cancel the trip" :huh: we also have alot of moolah dumped in to Broadway tickets etc. So, should we just hope and pray? Starting lining up options? Or what? Thanks! We depart on the CZ from Lincoln NE on Wednesday June 25th. My 2nd option was the Southwest Chief out of KCY, but its sold out.


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## the_traveler (Jun 15, 2008)

rail rookie said:


> I figure if worst comes to worst, we can just plain old drive to Chicago and board the Lakeshore.


You _might_ want (or hope) to drive to CHI - but can you? :huh: I heard the Iowa roads (including I-80) are messed up!


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## AlanB (Jun 15, 2008)

Al,

Starting to look at alternative is ok, but I don't think that I'd panic just yet either. The water is already starting to go down in Cedar Rapids, so things are starting to receede. And they only just lost the CZ route a day or two ago, so that should mean that it will be one of the first things to dry out also. So I think that there is a pretty good chance that they'll have the route up and running by the time you depart.

One other alternative that you could talk to Amtrak about though, might be to go to KCS. Yes, I know that you said that the train is sold out, but first off Amtrak might well make an exception in this case, even though it might mean you don't get seats in coach. You might land in the cafe car.

Additionally, although it would most likely mean staying over in Chicago for one night, you could also take the Ann Rutledge from KCS to reach Chicago. Amtrak is bustituting the first part of the trip, since UP is diverting all of it's freight trains via that route, but it would still get you to Chicago.


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## UnderWater (Jun 15, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Starting to look at alternative is ok, but I don't think that I'd panic just yet either. The water is already starting to go down in Cedar Rapids, so things are starting to receede. And they only just lost the CZ route a day or two ago, so that should mean that it will be one of the first things to dry out also. So I think that there is a pretty good chance that they'll have the route up and running by the time you depart.


Unfortunately, though, there is continuing flooding in other towns. The Cedar has crested, but other rivers have not yet.

Burlington and Ottumwa--two cities served by the CZ--are still in the process of fighting off rising waters.

It may be some time before service is restored.


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 15, 2008)

So the SWC is sold out on coach fare but there's still sleeper space available. Our trip is all in sleepers and its AGR points both Brenda and I have acrued for the last 2 1/2 years combined. So would Amtrak put us in a sleeper? The duration of the trip isn't real long and there's still space available in all 3 sleeper catergories. I would be to the point where the baggage car would be fine! :lol:


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## AlanB (Jun 15, 2008)

Well it's up to you Al, but maybe you want to talk with AGR about getting reticketed onto the SWC. But that does still pose a problem for you as you need to get to that train, and then there is the issue of will that train go out of action as the waters head further south.

On the other hand, waiting could mean that the Chief does sell out in the next week or so.

It's a tough gamble I have to say, wait and hope that they get the CZ back online in time or trek down to KC and hope that they don't close that line in the next week.


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## Guest_Fan_Trains_* (Jun 15, 2008)

My Mother, my Stepfather, and I are going from Chicago to Seattle on the Empire Builder in 1 week and 14 Days. would the Route be restored by then?


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## AlanB (Jun 15, 2008)

Guest_Fan_Trains_* said:


> My Mother, my Stepfather, and I are going from Chicago to Seattle on the Empire Builder in 1 week and 14 Days. would the Route be restored by then?


I make no promises, since at least at the moment AFAIK the tracks are still underwater. But assuming that there are no major washouts, with the rivers in that area already starting to recede, I would think that they have a very good chance on getting through by train.

However even if things don't progress well enough to restore train service, Amtrak is at least bussing people between Minneapolis and Chicago.


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## wayman (Jun 15, 2008)

rail rookie said:


> So the SWC is sold out on coach fare but there's still sleeper space available. Our trip is all in sleepers and its AGR points both Brenda and I have acrued for the last 2 1/2 years combined. So would Amtrak put us in a sleeper? The duration of the trip isn't real long and there's still space available in all 3 sleeper catergories. I would be to the point where the baggage car would be fine! :lol:


I've ridden in an ex-PRR B60 baggage. It's quite roomy in there, a lot bigger than the Superliner family bedroom! :lol:

(The West Chester RR, where I briefly volunteered, turned a B60 baggage into their snack car for excursion runs.)

Good luck, Al. I can't offer much advice, I'm afraid.


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## TraneMan (Jun 16, 2008)

I called Amtrak this morning,(Very friendly gal on the phone) and to see if anything was going from Winona MN (WIN) on down to Chicago(CHI), and she said no. I asked if I should hold my ticket till Thursday and cancel if I have to, she said yes, and thing can change between now and Friday..

I hope things do change, I got a quick figure for flying, and would be about $500 for one, and I am not paying that much! I'll drive down.


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## p&sr (Jun 16, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Due to flooding: The California Zephyr is suspended between Chicago and Denver.


I was on the last Train through the flooded area... the Des Moines River at Ottumwa. We passed through on the evening of Thursday, June 12th, with extreme thunderstorm activity all around us, all rivers over their banks, and lots of fields under standing water. The train advanced stop-and-go in contact with the Dispatchers who were watching their Weather Radar. The idea was to pass between the worst cells of the Storm as they drifted by around us. Also, a Tornado Watch was in effect.

Since that time, the tracks were evidently under water. A couple of RailRoad Bridges further north collapsed or washed away in the Flood. The UP mainline through Iowa has suffered extensive damage, and the BNSF line has been closed waiting for the Floodwaters to recede.

Other than that, we had a fine trip.


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## DaveKCMO (Jun 16, 2008)

my friend is on the chief headed to chicago right now. they were stopped for a little over an hour south of fort madison. when they started moving again, they were told they'd be moving very slowly through galesburg, where connecting passengers would board a bus and head to chicago via toledo (!) to make their connections. this was all relayed second hand, so not sure if that's exactly what was said.


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## quadrock (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm scheduled to take the Lake Shore Limited from NYP - CHI on 6/28 and the Empire Builder from CHI - East Glacier Park, Montana on 6/29. I'm going to assume that the route (or a detour) will be open by then as it's 1 week, 6 days from now but assuming not, what would Amtrak tell me when I get to Chicago? Would I be bus-stituted, or flown to Montana? I can't imagine being on a bus for more than 24 hours so I hope thats not an option.

Thanks in advance.


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## AlanB (Jun 16, 2008)

quadrock said:


> I'm scheduled to take the Lake Shore Limited from NYP - CHI on 6/28 and the Empire Builder from CHI - East Glacier Park, Montana on 6/29. I'm going to assume that the route (or a detour) will be open by then as it's 1 week, 6 days from now but assuming not, what would Amtrak tell me when I get to Chicago? Would I be bus-stituted, or flown to Montana? I can't imagine being on a bus for more than 24 hours so I hope thats not an option.
> Thanks in advance.


In your case if the tracks haven't been reopened by then, you'd most likely get bussed from Chicago to Minniapolis where you would then board the train again.

The water in that area is already receding, so I'd guess that within a day or two all the tracks will once again be above water. Then the question becomes, how much damage was done and how quickly can it be repaired? But I would think that by Thursday or Friday of this week, that they'll probably have a pretty good estimate as to when the line will reopen.


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2008)

DaveKCMO said:


> my friend is on the chief headed to chicago right now. they were stopped for a little over an hour south of fort madison. when they started moving again, they were told they'd be moving very slowly through galesburg, where connecting passengers would board a bus and head to chicago via toledo (!) to make their connections. this was all relayed second hand, so not sure if that's exactly what was said.


CRUD! I am on the SWC(4) on Wednesday-Thursday. We will connect to the LSL. Hoping this does not happen to us.


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## printman2000 (Jun 16, 2008)

DaveKCMO said:


> my friend is on the chief headed to chicago right now. they were stopped for a little over an hour south of fort madison. when they started moving again, they were told they'd be moving very slowly through galesburg, where connecting passengers would board a bus and head to chicago via toledo (!) to make their connections. this was all relayed second hand, so not sure if that's exactly what was said.


Let us know if you here anything else on this.


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## AlanB (Jun 16, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> DaveKCMO said:
> 
> 
> > my friend is on the chief headed to chicago right now. they were stopped for a little over an hour south of fort madison. when they started moving again, they were told they'd be moving very slowly through galesburg, where connecting passengers would board a bus and head to chicago via toledo (!) to make their connections. this was all relayed second hand, so not sure if that's exactly what was said.
> ...


Two updates from BNSF on 6/16:



> Although our Transcon main line remains open at Fort Madison, Iowa, trains through that area are experiencing some delay as we raise our main line tracks to keep them above water. The river is expected to crest at Fort Madison late Tuesday, June 17.





> Freight moving through Ft. Madison, IA is slow but continuing to move. We are building interchange trains outside Ft. Madison to keep the fluidity of this line. We have worked through the weekend to maintain the track structure in order to continue routing trains through this area. The water in this area is now expected to crest late Tuesday night. As we move closer more updates will follow.


So it sure sounds like BNSF is doing everything that they possible can to keep this line open, which is the line that the Chief uses. Tomorrow will be the critical day, if they can stay above the water, then everything should be fine. If they loose the battle, then unless there is a major problem like loosing a bridge, odds are that it shouldn't take too long for them to get right back into action. It may be close for you Printman, but the odds look to be in your favor that you'll get through.


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 17, 2008)

So Alan B......when should I begin to panic? :lol: Taking the Ann Rutledge to StL and then taking the Lincoln Service looks to be our best bet possibly. I asked Brenda if she could get 1 more day off and she said she would "try" and then we would have to overnight it in CHI on Tuesday June 24th. I personally would like to do the SWC, but its sold out but still has sleeping accomodations available. I'm hoping things are beginning to recede in Iowa and surrounding states and that folks can try and remake shattered lives from all of this flooding. I've always tried to say to myself...."is this a problem or an inconvience?!?" This to me is an inconvience, I just want my trip to go as smoothly as possible. The folks with the "problem" is all in the flooded states.


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## PRR 60 (Jun 17, 2008)

Hang in there, Al. No one wants to get the lines open more than the railroads. When trains don't move, they don't make money, and they hate that. They can and often do perform miracles to get things open. Since you have about a week before you leave, I would bet that things will be moving by then unless some structural or major signal and communications problems occurred. Water over the tracks leaves some mud and fouled switches, but with some clean-up, the trains can run. All you you can do is sit tight and wait.

John Steinbeck once wrote that in travel, "you don't take a trip, the trip takes you." Very true. I've had a lot of trips that took me, and some of those were the most fun. If I were a betting person, I would give you about an 80% chance of getting east next week.

Good luck. I'll be watching.


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## MrFSS (Jun 17, 2008)

One of my Internet Rail Photo fans sent me this LINK with lots of pictures from Iowa flooding along the BNSF lines near Ottumwa.


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 17, 2008)

PRR 60....thanks for those kind words. The bottom line is that I want this trip to go well for the gals. (Brenda and especially her two youngest kids that are riding with us) I have turned them on to rail travel and Brenda loves it and her youngest daughter is so into politics so she has really began to learn how underfunded and messed up our whole transportation grid is in the US. Throw in that her two girls (and her older sons) treat me with so much respect, I just want it to go well. One daughter "can't wait" for NYC and one daughter is so excited for DC. For a person like me who preaches Amtrak, evangelizes about rail travel, I just don't want to have egg on my face next Wednesday as we climb aboard buses, travel in canoes, hitchhike and run into Steve Martin and John Candy on our way to Chicago. (Planes Trains and Automobiles) I guess I want this thing to go like the trip on "Silver Streak" just minus all the shooting! :lol: Again I repeat, my heart and prayers go out to all the folks that won't be having a summer vacation this summer or in years to come due to being horsed around by this flood and insurance companies etc. They are losing things that can't be replaced such as lives and momentos and homes, my pride can be replaced and rather quickly!

Al


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2008)

AlanB said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > DaveKCMO said:
> ...


Thanks for the info, Alan. Where did you get those BNSF updates?


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2008)

Just called Amtrak. They show todays #4 terminating in Kansas City with bus service to Chicago. She said they also exect this to happen for several days. Looks as if we might be getting a bus ride.

Since we are in sleeper, will they refund us any money? What about meals, will they provide them?

The only fortunate thing about this is we will at least get our overnight on the train in sleeper.


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## AlanB (Jun 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Thanks for the info, Alan. Where did you get those BNSF updates?


Someone was kind enough to post the full updates on all BNSF tracks over on OTOL, so I cut and pasted the relevant parts here.


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2008)

Doggonit!

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1178294175835



> Service Alert: _Southwest Chief_, _California Zephyr_ & _Empire Builder_ — Midwest Flooding Disrupts Service
> June 17, 2008
> 
> 8:30 am CDT
> ...


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2008)

Okay, just looked again and they have changed the SWC part...



> Alternate transportation by chartered motorcoaches will be provided between Kansas City and Galesburg, with the exceptions of La Plata, Mo., and Fort Madison. Passengers ticketed at those stops are being offered travel at other Amtrak stations in Illinois.


Is says alternate transportation between Kansas City and GALESBURG, not Chicago. You think this means the train is going on to Chicago but on an alternate route?


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## jackal (Jun 17, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> John Steinbeck once wrote that in travel, "you don't take a trip, the trip takes you."


Heh heh...sounds like a Yakov Smirnoff joke. "On Amtrak, you don't take the trip...trip takes _YOU!!!_ :lol:


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## printman2000 (Jun 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Okay, just looked again and they have changed the SWC part...
> 
> 
> > Alternate transportation by chartered motorcoaches will be provided between Kansas City and Galesburg, with the exceptions of La Plata, Mo., and Fort Madison. Passengers ticketed at those stops are being offered travel at other Amtrak stations in Illinois.
> ...


I heard from another board it is busing from KC to Galesburg and a stub train from Galesburg to Chicago.


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## TraneMan (Jun 17, 2008)

I was looking at the train schedule this morning, and it was showing activities this morning from WIN to CHI. I called

Amtrak and she said yes, the train is running for now... They said I still should not hold hope if something changes again, and call again Thur. to be sure the train is running for my Friday's trip.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jun 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, just looked again and they have changed the SWC part...
> ...


They probably expect the passengers to then wait for the Illinois Zephyr/Carl Sandberg trains to take them to Chicago, but I don't know how there will be room for everyone


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## iowa train fan (Jun 17, 2008)

:unsure: Taking CZ from Omaha to Glenwood Springs July 3 to 7. I know there are no crystal balls out there but anyone have a gutt feeling on how things will be by then. Right now I would have to bus from Omaha to Denver and take the train from there. I assume it is not cost effective to run the train further east. It seems to me anything East of Des Moines would be fine. I feel cheated, I paid to take the train, certainly not the bus. Seems to me they owe there faithfull travelers the right that if they can get here they should. But then again if they were making money it would not be an issue. Here's to hoping things improve and full service will return. Let us not forget all of those poor people over there who have far more to worry about than whether or not they can catch a train.


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## TraneMan (Jun 18, 2008)

TraneMan said:


> I was looking at the train schedule this morning, and it was showing activities this morning from WIN to CHI. I called
> Amtrak and she said yes, the train is running for now... They said I still should not hold hope if something changes again, and call again Thur. to be sure the train is running for my Friday's trip.


Ok, guess may not be taking the train, they said they got busses running, and I am tempted just to drive down, not really looking forward for that. In 24 hours I will find out for sure.


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## yarrow (Jun 19, 2008)

very interesting urpa newsletter posted by MrFss this morning wondering what amtrak will do to restore service after the floods given their response after katrina and the oregon mudslide


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## MrFSS (Jun 19, 2008)

A railfan photographer friend sent me this picture and gave his permission for me to post it here. It will give you some idea of what is going on. This is the last BNSF out of Ottumwa, Iowa a few days ago.







He said it took about an hour for this one to go 1/2 mile.


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## CZ_rider (Jun 19, 2008)

Any idea on when the Zephyr will be back in full service?


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## yarrow (Jun 19, 2008)

amtrak to restore service on 2 flooded routes


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## PRR 60 (Jun 19, 2008)

yarrow said:


> amtrak to restore service on 2 flooded routes


But not the Zephyr.


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## yarrow (Jun 19, 2008)

i understand that in normal times using the bnsf detour on the eb route adds around 3 hours to the trip due to slower speeds. anyone have an idea how much will be added when they start using this byass for the eb given that there would probably be additional slow orders in the flood area?


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## MrEd (Jun 19, 2008)

NOTE: THIS IS A CHANGE FROM PLANS ANNOUNCED ON JUNE 18 AND IS BASED ON NEW INFORMATION FROM THE ROUTE.

Amtrak has been notified by BNSF Railway of the postponement of plans to restore rail service on one of the three routes disrupted due to flooding on the Mississippi River and its tributaries . A second cresting of flood waters at Fort Madison, Iowa, prevents the planned restoration of service by the Amtrak Southwest Chief on Friday, June 20, until at least Saturday, June 21.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1178294175835


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## TraneMan (Jun 19, 2008)

Called Amtrak, and they said I won't be able to get anywhere tomorrow.  Took the car in this afternoon have a good once over, oil change, and fix my A/C that stopped yesterday. Was able to cancel our tickets with no issues.

Just have to plan another train trip some where else later on.

Bags all packed, and ready for our 350 mile trip down to Chicago in the morning.


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## jackal (Jun 20, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> A railfan photographer friend sent me this picture and gave his permission for me to post it here. It will give you some idea of what is going on. This is the last BNSF out of Ottumwa, Iowa a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great shot!

I'll need to revisit my GCOR and ABTHM and all of that, but I seem to recall that when there is standing water over the level of the rails, the train can only proceed if it is preceded by someone inspecting the track in front of the train. Looks like there's a guy on the front deck sorta watching, but I doubt he can really see the rail through that murky water very well...

Could have been an ARR-only requirement, too.


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## MrFSS (Jun 20, 2008)

jackal said:


> Looks like there's a guy on the front deck sorta watching, but I doubt he can really see the rail through that murky water very well...


Believe it or not, that "guy" is a gal, I'm told, and she is the conductor watching for debris. They were really moving slowly.


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## jackal (Jun 20, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like there's a guy on the front deck sorta watching, but I doubt he can really see the rail through that murky water very well...
> ...


I love standing right there on a chilly day...those headlights, especially when they're on bright, are hot enough to give you a sunburn! :lol: When you walk in front of one, it's literally like walking in front of a high-powered heat lamp. They're WAY brighter than a car's headlights--we were once coming through a small town in the middle of the night and our headlight was shining across the river onto a hillside about 1/2 mile away. The entire hillside was lit up bright enough to make out the trees and shadows our headlight was casting.

One of the engineers I worked with commented once that along a certain stretch of track where the railroad is on the inside of a curve in the highway that truckers often flash their lights and blow their horns at trains because they think the train engineer's just being a jerk by not dimming the lights. But--per GCOR rules, the lights can only be dimmed at certain times, and traveling along a highway is not one of those permitted times...and if an engineer is nice enough to dim the lights and the oncoming car happens to belong to the Road Foreman of Engines, he can be cited for a rules violation. It apparently happened once...


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## dan72 (Jun 20, 2008)

Wow, I didn't know a train could put up such a wake! :lol: :lol:


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## GG-1 (Jun 20, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> A railfan photographer friend sent me this picture and gave his permission for me to post it here. It will give you some idea of what is going on. This is the last BNSF out of Ottumwa, Iowa a few days ago.
> He said it took about an hour for this one to go 1/2 mile.


Thank your friend for giving permission to post that picture, Some years ago A book had a similar picture of a GG1 treading water.


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## JRoberts (Jun 21, 2008)

wayman said:


> Coming to you live from train 28, a detour update!
> We just (1:43 pm CDT) entered Illinois, proceeding southbound on the east side of Big Muddy though now weaving in and out of sight of the river. This morning, prior to a half-hour late (roughly) arrival into MSP, the conductor confirmed our detour and told all non-CHI passengers to detrain for bustitution. He also told passengers on Michigan-bound trains and the Cardinal to detrain for a fast bus to Chicago. LSL passengers were told to stay on the train, and anyone with questions was invited to talk to the conductor in the diner. Naturally about ten of us connecting to the Capitol Ltd flocked up there. He said he wasn't explicitly told we had to detrain to bus to our connection ... and said we could stay on-board but it would be tight. So here I am, and hopefully the conductor's word stands as a "guaranteed connection" in case we get held up.
> 
> So far we haven't had a single passing siding stop. Slower speeds and more miles, though. And we did stop briefly in the middle of the BNSF yard in La Crosse for a quick crew change (with lots of warnings to passengers not to step off). Maybe we'll make it to CHI by 6? 7? Maybe they'll hold 30 for us? I'm not holding my breath for time enough for a quick run to Giordano's, even if I phone in an order from twenty minutes before our arrival.
> ...


Can you advise what a good internet wireless provider to use on the train?? Which one works best, type of card?? etc. Thanks, JRoberts

[email protected]


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## jackal (Jun 21, 2008)

JRoberts said:


> Can you advise what a good internet wireless provider to use on the train?? Which one works best, type of card?? etc. Thanks, JRoberts


I use a local (Alaskan) CDMA provider which roams on Verizon's 1xRTT network (sloooow). Have had pretty decent coverage when riding the Coast Starlight, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Cardinal, and Crescent. Since it only roams on the 1xRTT network and not the Verizon EVDO network (which is much faster), I don't know how much of that coverage is EVDO.

My AT&T cell phone has also had decent coverage, so I assume their EDGE data network is OK. EDGE speeds are better than 1xRTT but worse than EVDO. AT&T also has newer, faster UMTS coverage but only in limited metropolitan markets.

I _think_ I've heard Sprint's EVDO has fairly extensive coverage along Interstates, and some Amtrak routes do parallel Interstates, so Sprint might be OK for that. But I think their rural coverage is worse than Verizon.

I haven't heard the best about T-Mobile.

That's all I know...


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## Radparker (Jun 21, 2008)

I wouldn't go with T-Mobile. They only have EDGE (slow) and their rural coverage is probably not as good as Sprint/Verizon. I would also avoid AT&T, as their useful coverage area is the smallest of all the national providers. I had AT&T for 24 hours a few weeks ago. I tried it out and it didn't work out.

See my post here for my thoughts on mobile internet on the train: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...st&p=115562

I'd recommend a Sprint USB modem. I have a Sierra Compass 597. I used to have Verizon and it was fine, so I'd listen to that previous poster's suggestion to consider Verizon, though I don't have any recent experience regarding Verizon's coverage areas.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Norfolk Southern declared _force majeure _on some of their track in the flood zone. Does Amtrak have the ability to do that as well?


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## PRR 60 (Jun 21, 2008)

Guest said:


> Norfolk Southern declared _force majeure _on some of their track in the flood zone. Does Amtrak have the ability to do that as well?


Amtrak does not have to. "Force majeure" permits a contract to be broken due to an extraordinary event. In the case of the freight railroads, some of their contracts with shippers like UPS have some pretty heafty penalty clauses for late delivery. Declaring a "force majeure" voids those contracts and the penalties for the duration of the event.
Amtrak's contract with passengers is simple: either you are transported or you get your money back. There is no penalty involved such as three times your money back if we cancel. A "force majeure" declaration is not required due to the simple nature of Amtrak's contract with passengers.


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## AlanB (Jun 21, 2008)

I have AT&T and other than on the EB, I've had pretty good results with getting on the internet while on Amtrak. I can't stay on all the time, but always around most cities and even sometimes in the rural areas. I was online for well over an hour last night on the Auto Train while running through North Carolina.

So I've got no complaints about AT&T.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 21, 2008)

I had trouble calling my G/F on Skype via AT&T (then Cingular) on the Auto Train. Constant lost signals.


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## Radparker (Jun 22, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I had trouble calling my G/F on Skype via AT&T (then Cingular) on the Auto Train. Constant lost signals.


If that was back when it was Cingular, was it even a 3G connection? Skype needs a fast pipe. I can *barely* use it on my Sprint EVDO connection.

As far as the current state of AT&T, I couldn't even hold a network connection stably *in Chicago* at various coffee shops, my home, or my office on the north side.

I might give them another try in a year or two. I hear that when AT&T is connected at 3G speed, it's generally faster than Sprint or Verizon.


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## jackal (Jun 22, 2008)

Radparker said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > I had trouble calling my G/F on Skype via AT&T (then Cingular) on the Auto Train. Constant lost signals.
> ...


Actually, more than a fast pipe, Skype needs low latency. The actual bandwidth usage is comparable to 56kbps dial-up (ISTR about 4KB/sec transfer rates when using Skype).

Both EDGE and the original EVDO Rev.0 have horrible latency--well over 100ms pings even to the ISP's own servers. The newer EVDO Rev.A slightly increases the downlink speed, substantially increases the uplink speed, and vastly improves the latency to comparable to a landline connection. I assume UMTS (AT&T's 3G service) is at least comparable to EVDO Rev.A for latency, but I haven't heard any specifics.

If Skype is something you'll be using a lot, I'd probably go with one of the EVDO providers (Verizon or Sprint), as EVDO has a much wider footprint than AT&T's UMTS, and you'll need either one for good Skypage. Make sure you look to see that the card you buy is good for EVDO Rev.A (or even Rev.B, if any are out yet), though.


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## drbabbers (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi all,

I just wanted to ask about the situation with the flooding causing service outage on the Southwest Chief from LA to Chicago. Been doing some research online and did call Amtrak but don't have any definitive news. I have a ticket to depart from LA this Thursday 26th June, do you think I will be able to make this journey to Chicago?

Thanks in advance.

Dean


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 23, 2008)

Drbabbers,

I am supposed to take the CZ on Wednesday June 25th out of LNK (Lincoln NE) to CHI. I got the "dreaded" phone call yesterday from Amtrak about my train probably not running on the 25th. In todays Lincoln Journal Star, they are saying the Mississippi hasn't crested yet either. Also, looking at our extended forecast in the paper it shows thunderstorms for every single day this week. I called our local Amtrak station last night and the clerk said, "the rails are still under water in Ottumwa". So I know this isn't the train you are on, but we both are dealing with "flooding in IA". I'm not telling you things are going to be bad, just telling you what everyone else is telling me. I also booked RT tickets from OMA to CHI on SWA "just in case" we needed them and it looks like we are going to need them. That sucks but what would suck worse is losing your home or life to the flood waters.


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## drbabbers (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for your reply. From what I have read online, the Southwest Chief is running but has transportation replacements between Kansas City and Chicago. So if the train is running I should still be able to get to Chicago I hope..



> Southwest Chief, Trains 3 & 4
> Service by the Southwest Chief between Kansas City and Chicago has been temporarily suspended since June 17 due to flooding on the BNSF Railway route in Iowa.
> 
> Alternate transportation by chartered motorcoaches will be provided between Kansas City and Galesburg or Chicago, with the exceptions of La Plata, Mo., Fort Madison, Iowa, and Mendota and Naperville, Ill. Passengers ticketed at those stops are being offered travel at other Amtrak stations or on other Amtrak trains.


It is scheduled to arrive at Kansas City at 7.30am in the morning, then motor transportation from there. I would bu curious to hear from someone who has actually completed this journey in the last week. Anyone?


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## ThayerATM (Jun 23, 2008)

wayman said:


> This morning on 28 I overheard a coach attendant reassure a concerned passenger that the train wouldn't have any problems getting to MSP (her destination) but "might not be able to get into Chicago by rail" on account of flooded tracks. Now, in my experience car attendants are wrong as often as they're right... But is there any truth to this and actual likelihood of significant delays or bustitution around Chicago (on either the Builder or Thursday's outbound Capitol)?


Last October I purchased (through AAA) round trip tickets for my wife and myself from ROC to SAC, on Amtrak --- Sleepers, and all the whistles and bells. Trip was to take place June 15-25. I had the printed tickets in hand.

On Friday, the 13th (I'm NOT superstitious  ) of June I called Amtrak to find the status of the trains because of all the flooding in Iowa, and was informed that train 5 (The California Zephyr) had been cancelled through (at least) the 16th of June.

I hurried around for the rest of the day arranging for a flight for the two of us, as we had to be in California on the 18th. After arriving, we were in a really remote area of California, and I had no way to contact AAA to take care of the cancellation. YES, I had called Amtrak and cancelled the tickets.

This morning I went over to AAA (more than a week after our ticket dates) to return the tickes, and received a full refund from Amtrak.

I received the full refund [100%] (credit to my card) this morning.

Amtrak and AAA rock!!!!


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## drbabbers (Jun 23, 2008)

Just got off the phone from Bill @ Amtrak..

They are aiming to have a full service running on the Southwest Chief for Wednesday 25th June, but no guarantee. If the service is not restored, the Southwest Chief is still running, but with a bus replacement between Kansas City and Chicago. The bus ride is 7 and a half hours and departs Kansas City around 7.30am. This is a direct bus service with no intermediate stops.


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## Jon Parker (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm scheduled for train 5 from CHI to EMY on JULY 25th...should i be worried?


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## gswager (Jun 23, 2008)

Jon Parker said:


> I'm scheduled for train 5 from CHI to EMY on JULY 25th...should i be worried?


No, unless there are more heavy thunderstorms over the Mississippi River watershed (upper areas).


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## printman2000 (Jun 23, 2008)

drbabbers said:


> I would bu curious to hear from someone who has actually completed this journey in the last week. Anyone?


We were on the eastbound #4 last Wednesday-Thursday and had the bussing from KC to Chicago. It took closer to 9 hours for the journey. Not fun, but it got us there.


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## drbabbers (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for letting me know. What time did the train pull into Kansas City and roughly what time did the bus depart Chicago bound? Was it direct also?

Found this updated article as of June 20th:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...200370/0/NEWS04



> AMTRAK TO RESUME
> Amtrak said Thursday it will resume service Saturday to Fort Madison on its Southwest Chief passenger train, operating between Chicago and Los Angeles.
> 
> Service was suspended Tuesday.
> ...


I presume the SWC resume was last Saturday, which I don't believe happened. Fingers crossed for this Thursday... one way or the other I will get to Chicago!


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## printman2000 (Jun 23, 2008)

drbabbers said:


> Thanks for letting me know. What time did the train pull into Kansas City and roughly what time did the bus depart Chicago bound? Was it direct also?
> Found this updated article as of June 20th:
> 
> http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...200370/0/NEWS04
> ...


We arrived into KC just about on time. There were several busses that left around 8:00 AM. Our did not get away until 9:30 because we were waiting for all the checked luggage. We arrived in Boston around 7:00 pm. We made only one stop which was for dinner at McDonalds. We stopped maybe 45 minutes.

As far as I have seen, the busses are still running. From what I have read tomorrow (24th) may be the first day of train service. We shall see.


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## drbabbers (Jun 24, 2008)

May I ask where you read about travel being resumed on Wednesday?

I just been down to Union Station, Los Angeles and asked the information desk if there was an update to the situation. The guy didn't really seem to care what I said to be honest, he made a call that lasted about 5 seconds and then he said to me buses are running between Kansas City and Chicago today and he doesn't know anything else. I will go down there again tomorrow and see if I can get another update to the situation.

Ok I just found this on Amtraks site:



> Southwest Chief, Empire Builder and California Zephyr Midwest Flooding Disruption Update
> June 24, 2008
> 
> 8:00 am CDT
> ...


This is good news for anyone using the SWC from LA to Chicago.


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## printman2000 (Jun 24, 2008)

WOO HOO!!!! NO BUS FOR US! (except from Boston to Albany because of trackwork being extended)


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## wayman (Jun 24, 2008)

AlanB said:


> I have AT&T and other than on the EB, I've had pretty good results with getting on the internet while on Amtrak. I can't stay on all the time, but always around most cities and even sometimes in the rural areas. I was online for well over an hour last night on the Auto Train while running through North Carolina.
> So I've got no complaints about AT&T.


I was using AT&T's Edge network when I was posting updates from the Empire Builder. It was a bit dodgy, and completely unavailable for much of Montana, North Dakota, and (the detour through) western Illinois, which is to say for most of the run it was either not there at all or extreeeeeeeeeeeemely slow. East of the Mississippi it seems to work great. I've used it on the NEC between NYP and WAS, the CL from WAS to CHI, and the LSL from CHI to NYP. Likewise great on the Cascades between PDX and SEA and on the EB PDX to SPK.

However, I do observe what seems to be a poorer-quality voice connection on AT&T/iPhone than with my Verizon/LG or Verizon/Motorola previous cellphones. I can't say whether that's more AT&T's fault or Apple's, but given the reputation AT&T has for having poorer-quality voice connections, I'd say it's them.


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## drbabbers (Jun 24, 2008)

This is great news for me personally, we have had a recent family tragedy and I need to get back to New York City asap, train from LA to Chicago, then Chicago to New York. Unfortunately I have a phobia of flying, so this is the alternate. I really didn't want the hassles of getting on a 7 hour or so bus ride, on top of the LA to KC journey. Well done to all the workers and staff who has made this happen!


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## iowa train fan (Jun 25, 2008)

In regards to the CZ, I just got this information from a gentleman at BNSF

"Trackage just east of Burlington, Iowa, is still under water; we won’t be able to estimate a re-opening time until the water recedes and we’re able to assess the damage. Wish I could be more definite, but that’s just not possible given present conditions"

Sounds to me Amtrak is being very optomistic to think things will be back to normal by next week


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## Guest_Fan_Trains_* (Jun 25, 2008)

is the Empire Builder running now on the BNSF Detour Route?


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## frj1983 (Jun 25, 2008)

iowa train fan said:


> In regards to the CZ, I just got this information from a gentleman at BNSF
> "Trackage just east of Burlington, Iowa, is still under water; we won’t be able to estimate a re-opening time until the water recedes and we’re able to assess the damage. Wish I could be more definite, but that’s just not possible given present conditions"
> 
> Sounds to me Amtrak is being very optomistic to think things will be back to normal by next week


And beware:

Heavy rain is predicted for the next few days throughout the entire region that got drenched recently!!!


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## Zephyr Rocket (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the helpful information! I have tickets to go out on the California Zephyr from Denver this weekend but last week also made reservations on the Southwest Chief in case the CZ did not pan out. It looks like I will be heading on the Southwest Chief instead, which will be fun because I have never been on that route before! I just hope the Zephyr is back open in two weeks when I head back.


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## iowa train fan (Jun 26, 2008)

Another nail in my coffin, this is a reply I got from someone in Burlington

I'm in Burlington. The tracks are slowly being restored here on the Iowa side, but the bigger problem is the Illinois side. If you have seen any pictures of the flooding, the entire town of Gulport, IL is under water and the tracks run through that area. Highway 34 has been closed from Biggsville to Burlington for a couple of weeks and will probably be closed until around the 4th of July. The tracks run almost parrallel to the highway all the way to Galesburg. The Fort Madison area is in better shape. Some roads on the IL side reopened today.

Still hopefull, but not very optomistic.


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## iowa train fan (Jun 26, 2008)

Sorry, me again, this is an artical from The Hawk Eye in Burlington. Sounds like I am so screwed for the CZ early July

Excerpt:



> As heavy vehicles roared in the background Wednesday, workers from R.J. Corman Railroad Group unloaded tons of rock and large sections of railroad wood ties and readied equipment at a staging area at the BNSF Railway railyard in Burlington.
> Since last week, about 50 employees from Corman have camped out in Burlington as they worked to repair railroad tracks damaged by flooding from a Mississippi River that reached record high levels.


http://www.thehawkeye.com/Story/flood-railroad-062608

Edited by AmtrakWPK - NOTE - Due to copyright we CANNOT quote entire stories unless you have the explicit permission of the copyright holder to do that. Short excerpts are acceptable, and you can leave a link to the complete article, as I have now done.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 26, 2008)

Amtrak is just not doing well in the rare-massive-disaster areas this year are they?


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## quadrock (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm scheduled to arrive in CHI on the Lake Shore Limited on Sunday 6/29 and will be leaving for Montana on that same day via the Empire Builder. Should I have any hope that the line (or at least the BNSF detour) will be open by Sunday?


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## Zephyr Rocket (Jun 26, 2008)

I heard that today the Southwest Chief is being detoured from Chicago to Kansas City via St. Louis because of floods in Missouri. An Amtrak rep mentioned to me that this may be for a few days - not really sure.

Regarding the California Zephyr, my local Amtrak agent told me today that it might be running again by July 3... but also mentioned it's more likely to be at least 2 weeks out. I wonder why they can't detour it over the Union Pacific since their line has been active now for a week?


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## PRR 60 (Jun 26, 2008)

Zephyr Rocket said:


> ...Regarding the California Zephyr, my local Amtrak agent told me today that it might be running again by July 3... but also mentioned it's more likely to be at least 2 weeks out. I wonder why they can't detour it over the Union Pacific since their line has been active now for a week?


Most likely because of freight traffic congestion. With the BNSF line closed, the UP line is probably grid-locked.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 26, 2008)

Also, why have the California Zephyr be even later?


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## Rafi (Jun 26, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Also, why have the California Zephyr be even later?


In the case of my train last week, we were delayed waiting for the bus to arrive from Omaha.

-Rafi


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## quadrock (Jun 27, 2008)

Seems like no new notice on Amtrak.com yet. Anyone have first-hand thoughts about whether the Empire Builder will be running (at least over the detour) by Sunday 6/29?


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## wisEBfan (Jun 27, 2008)

quadrock said:


> I'm scheduled to arrive in CHI on the Lake Shore Limited on Sunday 6/29 and will be leaving for Montana on that same day via the Empire Builder. Should I have any hope that the line (or at least the BNSF detour) will be open by Sunday?


The weather forecast here in southern Wisconsin is for more rain later today (Friday 6/27/2008) and again on Saturday. I very much doubt that the normal route will be open by Sunday.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 27, 2008)

I wonder if this is going to be a major headache to repair.


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## RC (Jun 27, 2008)

This is so frustrating. We're scheduled to be on the CZ from CHI to DEN on July 2nd and I've all but given up hope that it will be running by then. It doesn't seem that Amtrak has an option for getting us there if it doesn't so we'd be pretty much on our own. We're looking at Greyhound as a backup, but this was going to be our first train trip(w/ a sleeper) and the bus is a poor subsitute. Or we might be able to take the SWC into Colorado, but then a relative will have to drive 2-3 hours each way to pick us up and I'd hate to ask them to do that and now it seems that the SWC is suspended again anyways.

Are they running buses to KS and then you pick up the train there? We can't even book on the SWC without cancelling our reservation on the CF and even though it's not looking great I hate to take away any options. I'm hoping they'd be more likely to resume service on the SWC since it's already been restored once, but who knows. There's such a lack of information and even though I know the future can't be predicted it makes for very stressful travel planning. On top of that I worry if the CZ will be back by July 7th for our return trip or we could be going through this watching/waiting/calling process again during our vacation.

On the other hand, information searching has allowed me to see the devastation that the flooding has caused for so many communities and I hope the rivers recede even more for them to be able to get back to their lives as normal as possible.


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## stlouielady (Jun 27, 2008)

Unfortunately for all the passengers involved, until it stops dumping rain over the affected areas, it's not going to get any better anytime soon. My folks are in Iowa, and told me tonight that it rained another 5-6 inches both Wednesday and Thursday over parts of Iowa, which, of course, will again fill up the rivers and take more water across the same places. It's a mess here in the St Louis area now, with the crest expected Monday on the Mississippi, barring no more rainfall up north. Levees are breaking all along the river(s), people are losing their homes, and there's not a thing anybody can do about it, other than watch and wait; sad situation for everyone involved.


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## Rafi (Jun 27, 2008)

RC said:


> This is so frustrating. We're scheduled to be on the CZ from CHI to DEN on July 2nd and I've all but given up hope that it will be running by then. It doesn't seem that Amtrak has an option for getting us there if it doesn't so we'd be pretty much on our own. We're looking at Greyhound as a backup, but this was going to be our first train trip(w/ a sleeper) and the bus is a poor subsitute. Or we might be able to take the SWC into Colorado, but then a relative will have to drive 2-3 hours each way to pick us up and I'd hate to ask them to do that and now it seems that the SWC is suspended again anyways.
> Are they running buses to KS and then you pick up the train there? We can't even book on the SWC without cancelling our reservation on the CF and even though it's not looking great I hate to take away any options. I'm hoping they'd be more likely to resume service on the SWC since it's already been restored once, but who knows. There's such a lack of information and even though I know the future can't be predicted it makes for very stressful travel planning. On top of that I worry if the CZ will be back by July 7th for our return trip or we could be going through this watching/waiting/calling process again during our vacation.
> 
> On the other hand, information searching has allowed me to see the devastation that the flooding has caused for so many communities and I hope the rivers recede even more for them to be able to get back to their lives as normal as possible.


RC,

At this point, I think you're pretty much guaranteed that the Zephyr won't be running on the 2nd out of Chicago. I imagine there is a VERY small chance it may run over UP's track as a detour, but that line is so congested everyone's saying it's not going to happen. Honestly, if I were in your shoes and had an extra day or two of flexibility, I might contact Amtrak to see if they can put you on the Chief to Raton, NM (you'd be taking a train to Galesburg, I think, then a bus to Kansas City, then the train to Raton) and have them bus you on their regular bus route up to Denver to catch the Zephyr out of there. It would probably add an extra day, I guess, and possibly a night in Denver on your dime, but it might be worth considering.

-Rafi


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## iowa train fan (Jun 28, 2008)

RC said:


> This is so frustrating. We're scheduled to be on the CZ from CHI to DEN on July 2nd and I've all but given up hope that it will be running by then. It doesn't seem that Amtrak has an option for getting us there if it doesn't so we'd be pretty much on our own. We're looking at Greyhound as a backup, but this was going to be our first train trip(w/ a sleeper) and the bus is a poor subsitute. Or we might be able to take the SWC into Colorado, but then a relative will have to drive 2-3 hours each way to pick us up and I'd hate to ask them to do that and now it seems that the SWC is suspended again anyways.
> Are they running buses to KS and then you pick up the train there? We can't even book on the SWC without cancelling our reservation on the CF and even though it's not looking great I hate to take away any options. I'm hoping they'd be more likely to resume service on the SWC since it's already been restored once, but who knows. There's such a lack of information and even though I know the future can't be predicted it makes for very stressful travel planning. On top of that I worry if the CZ will be back by July 7th for our return trip or we could be going through this watching/waiting/calling process again during our vacation.
> 
> On the other hand, information searching has allowed me to see the devastation that the flooding has caused for so many communities and I hope the rivers recede even more for them to be able to get back to their lives as normal as possible.


I feel your pain!! We are scheduled on CZ July 3 but we are only going from Omaha west so we at least are getting bused. Amtrak schedules still allow me to add a reservation for the 3rd, I know that is the earliest it will allow, so I still hold out faint hope. I think the Burlington area was spared the heavy rain this night but who knows how much is coming from upstream. They are still posting the river to drop but I don't know if it's enough to pull water off the tracks. Any ideas if the tracks are still under water anywhere along the line? I wonder what BNSF is doing with all there traffic? Good luck and as you said, we only have a little travel issue, some of these poor people have lost everything!!!!!


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## Rafi (Jun 28, 2008)

iowa train fan said:


> I feel your pain!! We are scheduled on CZ July 3 but we are only going from Omaha west so we at least are getting bused. Amtrak schedules still allow me to add a reservation for the 3rd, I know that is the earliest it will allow, so I still hold out faint hope. I think the Burlington area was spared the heavy rain this night but who knows how much is coming from upstream. They are still posting the river to drop but I don't know if it's enough to pull water off the tracks. Any ideas if the tracks are still under water anywhere along the line? I wonder what BNSF is doing with all there traffic? Good luck and as you said, we only have a little travel issue, some of these poor people have lost everything!!!!!


NARP posted this yesterday (notice that the Zephyr's route is in the worst condition—under the most water):



> First the good news—beginning today, the Empire Builder will resume service through to and from Chicago, albeit on a detour between Chicago and La Crosse, WI via. Canadian Pacific and Union Pacific. Bus service will be provided between Milwaukee and LaCrosse, stopping at Wisconsin Dells and Tomah only.
> As for the Southwest Chief, the train was able to operate thru last Sunday and Monday, before flood waters once again closed the line. Yesterday’s train 3 detoured via. St. Louis (route of the Ann Rutledge) but departed Kansas City over five hours late. Today’s service will return to the previous pattern of turning train 4 in Kansas City and busing between Chicago and Kansas City, with limited service to intermediate points.
> 
> There is currently no estimate for restoration of the California Zephyr service east of Denver. This route has faced the most severe damage of the three Amtrak trains impacted, with nearly 17 feet of water over the rails at Connet, IL (east of Burlington, IA). It is currently not practical to detour over the Union Pacific Chicago-Omaha mainline due to flooding and heavy freight congestion. Buses are provided between Denver and Omaha only.
> ...


Rafi


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## RC (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok, I've officially given up on the CZ for th 2nd (still holding out for the 7th) based on all the info I've seen. We've switched to the SWC which even if it isn't running the full trip will at least have alt transport avail to get us there, we will have our sleeper for portion of the trip and we won't have a bus trip of double the time. Our relative has agreed to pick us up and I regret the incovenience to them but at least we can have our visit.

I did look into the Amtrak bus option from NM but, yes it would add another day of travel (we'd be set to arrive in Denver around 9:30 pm) and We'd really like to get there asap since we have lots of plans made already for our few days there.

Does anyone know what caused the SWC to close down again partially and what are the odds that it might be back in service by the 2nd? I was hoping it was just a small set back but the impression I got from the Amtrak agent was a back to square one type of event?


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 28, 2008)

Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?


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## wisEBfan (Jun 29, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?


Here's a quote from a special section of the Wisconsin State Journal from Friday 6/27/2008: "Water levels in several rivers--the Kickapoo, the Baraboo, the Rock, the Root--exceeded a 500-year flooding event, according to a provisional estimate by the U.S. Geological Survey. There is just a 0.2 percent likelihood of such an event happening in any given year in a particular location."


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## Chessie Hokie (Jun 29, 2008)

wisEBfan said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Where does this flood rank with the usual spring/summer floods?
> ...


Here is some further illumination on the "500-year flood" issue from the US Geological Survey: *Two 500-Year Floods Within 15 Years-- What are the Odds*


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## Wendymarie37 (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?


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## drbabbers (Jun 29, 2008)

Hi all,

Just arrived in New York City, having taken the Southwest Chief from LA to Kansas City, then a 10 hour coach from Kansas City to Chicago. Then an overnight train from Chicago to NYC.

I was very frustrated on the SWC... I was under the impression when we boarded, that our train was direct to Chicago, however I believe during our journey there were more floods and the train terminated at KC. I can totally understand the situation, but the driver only told us this offically 15 minutes before we arrived to Kansas City and there were a lot of very upset people whose plans were ruined. I actually found out the night before from our sleeper car attendant who knew this 'unofficially'... so yea our journey was long and tiring... but we got there in the end! Train from LA into KC at 10am, then coach about 10.30am all the way directly to Chicago with 2 rest stops... 10 hours! Got to Chicago about 8pm..


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## GregL (Jun 30, 2008)

Wendymarie37 said:


> I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?


This weekend I talked to a guy that is an employee of BNSF. He said they have had 5,000 feet (17 foot deep) of double main line taken out east of Burlington,Ia in Illinois when the Mississippi river levee broke. I did see that BNSF has a bunch of equipment sitting in Burlington before the flood waters came back down to repair the main lines. They want that repaired ASAP because I believe there were other transcon. routes damaged with the flooding. Hopefully they will have it done by the 13th.

GregL


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## sky12065 (Jun 30, 2008)

Wendymarie37 said:


> I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?


I'm leaving tomorrow on the SWC for Flagstaff. I called Amtrak yesterday to find out if I would be able to board in Chicago as normal and was told that no disruption of service was expected. I can only hope they told me the truth. Anyway, by watching the train's status I've notice that the lateness is improving from what they were. The last run I could check ran about 5 hours late, down from around 10 give or take. I would think that 5 hours couldn't happen if they were still busing from CHI to Kansas City.

As a side note, the weather forcast around the Mississippi where Amtrk's SWC normally crosses showed sunny both today and tomorrow. That's gotta hopefully help the regions flooding problem a little.


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## GregL (Jun 30, 2008)

GregL said:


> Wendymarie37 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm scheduled to leave around the 13th out of Chicago, any thoughts on wether or not the CZ will be running by then?
> ...


I wasn't very clear in this post. The trackage that had the 5,000 foot damaged was on the line the California Zephyr uses. The track the Southwest Chief uses is a different one and is back to ''normal'' since the flood. I didn't mean to scare you!!

Both tracks are between Galesburg,Ill and Iowa. In Ft. Madison, Ia. on SWC route the water was over the tracks for a day or two.

GregL


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## printman2000 (Jun 30, 2008)

drbabbers said:


> Hi all,
> Just arrived in New York City, having taken the Southwest Chief from LA to Kansas City, then a 10 hour coach from Kansas City to Chicago. Then an overnight train from Chicago to NYC.
> 
> I was very frustrated on the SWC... I was under the impression when we boarded, that our train was direct to Chicago, however I believe during our journey there were more floods and the train terminated at KC. I can totally understand the situation, but the driver only told us this offically 15 minutes before we arrived to Kansas City and there were a lot of very upset people whose plans were ruined. I actually found out the night before from our sleeper car attendant who knew this 'unofficially'... so yea our journey was long and tiring... but we got there in the end! Train from LA into KC at 10am, then coach about 10.30am all the way directly to Chicago with 2 rest stops... 10 hours! Got to Chicago about 8pm..


Sound like you did almost the exact same trip we did two weeks ago when all this flooding first started. While I understand your frustration, keep in mind that all this flooding is constantly changing things. While I hated being on the bus, I was very appreciative that Amtrak got us to our destination on time to make our connection to the LSL. This is all very complicated mess and I think they are doing a pretty good job at getting people where they need to go.


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## sjstarkey (Jun 30, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> drbabbers said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> ...


We just got home (6/30) from our SWC trip. Got a ohne call on my cell from amtrak at around 11pm, while on the capital limited, explaining that we would be bussed from CHI to KC. I asked at least 5 times how long the ride would be, and each time was told 7 hours. We left CHI at 3pm and arrived in KC at 12am. We stopped once to chage bus deivers and then a quick 20 minute dinner break. I had my 12 year old daughter with me and because the A/C was on full blast the whole bus ride (even though he was asked to turn it down) she was as cold as an ice cube by the time we arrived. I think that amtrak should have made sure everyone had a blanket or something. Also, being told 7 hours and having the bus driver say that he doesn't know why Amtrak keeps telling people that, is somewhat disheartening. I took the Amtrak rep. at her word and then realized that she either didn't know what she was talking about, or was saying less time to appease the passengers.


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## Chessie Hokie (Jun 30, 2008)

I have a reservation on the westbound CZ the second weekend of July, so I am following the current situation very closely. So far Amtrak has not deemed it necessary to give me the dreaded phone call canceling my trip...knock on wood!

There is a new glimmer of hope, though, as BNSF has today issued a new update on the situation which has kept the CZ route shut down, stating "_Our main line across southern Iowa via Ottumwa remains out of service due to flood damage just east of Burlington, Iowa, although waters have receded to the point that crews are able to begin working to restore the damaged trackage..._"

That is good news, as previous reports had stated that track was still under water. As long as the bridges are okay I remain optimistic that they can get the trackage back in shape for the CZ to resume service before my trip...though I'm sure slow orders will abound for some time. BNSF seriously wants to get that trackage back in service soon, as the southern detour for freight traffic is costing them time and money...they have been staging RJ Corman repair crews, supplies and equiment in Burlington for over a week to attack the problem as quickly as possible.

The link below also has a photo of a track crew at work east of Burlington.

Flood Update - A message to BNSF customers about the effects of Midwest flooding on BNSF


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## sky12065 (Jun 30, 2008)

*ORIGINAL POST*

I'm leaving tomorrow on the SWC for Flagstaff. I called Amtrak yesterday to find out if I would be able to board in Chicago as normal and was told that no disruption of service was expected. I can only hope they told me the truth. Anyway, by watching the train's status I've notice that the lateness is improving from what they were. The last run I could check ran about 5 hours late, down from around 10 give or take. I would think that 5 hours couldn't happen if they were still busing from CHI to Kansas City.

As a side note, the weather forcast around the Mississippi where Amtrk's SWC normally crosses showed sunny both today and tomorrow. That's gotta hopefully help the regions flooding problem a little.

*UPDATE*

Just spoke to Amtrak and was informed that I will definitely be bused tomorrow from Chicago to Kansas City. Obviously they neglected to let me know that when I spoke to them yesterday... or at best evasive about it.

As for the time element, I heard it was 10, 9 and 6 hours between the two points, but checking with a Google Map search it came out to 8 hours. So I would have to presume that 8 hours is the best case seniaro or more depending on stops or traffic considerations.

Anyway, this old guy will have plenty of meds to help deal with the discomforts and/or anxiety! LOL


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## darien-l (Jun 30, 2008)

Photo of track damage near Burlington, IA (California Zephyr line) from the BNSF report:







Holy crap!


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## drbabbers (Jun 30, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Sound like you did almost the exact same trip we did two weeks ago when all this flooding first started. While I understand your frustration, keep in mind that all this flooding is constantly changing things. While I hated being on the bus, I was very appreciative that Amtrak got us to our destination on time to make our connection to the LSL. This is all very complicated mess and I think they are doing a pretty good job at getting people where they need to go.


Yea I totally agree. Everyone on the bus seemed to be in good spirits. Also they had stated that if anyone missed a connecting train in Chicago, they would get a refund and a rescheduled ticket, also Amtrak would accomodate them in a hotel for the night! Impressive!!


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## George Harris (Jun 30, 2008)

Chessie Hokie said:


> wisEBfan said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


0.2 percent every year. For a 15 year period, 1.5%.

Sometime in the 1960's or early 70's the James River at Richmond, Virginia exceeded the "100 year" flood three times in about a 6 year period. A "100 year" flood dies not mean it will happen only once in any 100 eyar period. It means an average reoccurance, or better put, every year you have a 1.0 percent chance of a fllood to that elevation. Same for any other flood reoccurance.

"10 year flood" = 10% chance in any given year.

"20 year flood" = 5% chance in any given year.

"50 year flood" = 2% chance in any given year.

"100 year flood" = 1.0% chance in any given year.

"500 year flood" = 0.2% chance in any given year.

Normally drainage systems are designed for one of these with a look of some sort at what happens when it is exceeded. Normally streel inlets are designed for a 10 to 20 year intermal rainfall with the knowledge that for the higher intensities the problem is usually limited to water running along the street to the next inlet. For that reason, sag point inlets usually are desiged for higher intensities.


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## scott (Jun 30, 2008)

Am hoping to be on the CZ June 16th Chicago-Omaha. Anyone have any ideas whether or not it's likely to run? Amtrak only tells me they are hoping for mid-=July but I'm hoping someone out there might have a better idea as to how the cleanup work is going.


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## GregL (Jul 1, 2008)

scott said:


> Am hoping to be on the CZ June 16th Chicago-Omaha. Anyone have any ideas whether or not it's likely to run? Amtrak only tells me they are hoping for mid-=July but I'm hoping someone out there might have a better idea as to how the cleanup work is going.


In todays Burlington Hawkeye, a spokesman for BNSF said the railroad would be fully operational by 6AM thursday. He did not mention Amtrak, which uses the line that was wipped out when the levee broke on June 17.


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