# Texas Trip Report



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 31, 2015)

I decided to take a trip to Texas after I saw great hotel deals in Texas and was recommended by many people to visit. The first leg of the trip was on Greyhound #86308, which would take me from Reno to Salt Lake City. #86308 is a 2010 D4505 that I had seen many times before. It was the bus that went to Greyhound's New Sacramento Terminal opening ceremony. I had been expecting DL3 #6389 to be operating to SLC that day, since it had come from SLC the previous day, but was dismayed to find that #6389 would be sitting in Reno and I'd have to ride the far less comfortable D4505.

Well, #86308 was really quite terrible. The interior was very dirty and smelly, with lots of grime stuck on the carpeted seat backs and window air vents. Settling into my "Premier" seat, I found limited legroom and a painfully hard, flat seat back. The seat bottoms sagged and slid around, causing terrible discomfort. The Premier must be the worst seat model available, despite its name. It's more like the "Painful Premier". Driver Al Garcia, who I'd ridden with before, was grumpy this time and failed to depart on time. He refused to let anyone sit in the front row. My window armrest had broken off the hinge and bent inward. Neither the outlets nor the Wi-Fi worked. Grime covered the seat backs. Every single seat was damaged. Either the armrest was broken, or the recline, or the armrests and seat covers were cracked. Some of the outlets themselves were cracked. To make matters worse, the other passengers were highly suspicious. One passenger handed me a Marlboro box and insisted that I smoke with him, even though I'm not a smoker. He also behave aggressively to the Arby's employees in Wendover. Every passenger appeared eagar to smoke at every rest stop and many of them reeked of smoke.

It didn't help that Greyhound's buses are governed at 68 mph, meaning this D4505 couldn't accelerate to the speed limit, 75 mph, prolonging the ride. That just made the ordeal longer, and we arrived in SLC late, failing to make up any time due to the speed governor. Fortunately, I had booked the Radisson SLC on Hotwire and got a good night's sleep. Pissed at Greyhound, I have boycotted them for future trips. Even though #86308 was only half-full, it was very uncomfortable.

The next day, my bus to Denver was another D4505, #86317. Again, it was very uncomfortable, and the bus was packed, though it wasn't as dirty as #86308 or as heavily damaged. The bus was running Portland-Denver, but a different bus had come from Portland and swapped with #86317. The passengers were friendlier, but many of them still smoked. Again, the driver wouldn't let me sit in the front row even though the seats were open. An oversize load truck passed us carrying a huge John Deere tractor. Around Laramie, someone excreted heavily in the restroom and the problematic flushing toilet allowed the smell to linger while the restroom air was recirculated throughout the cabin. Flushing toilets on buses are a major annoyance and buses with flushing toilets generally smell much worse than buses with straight dump into a holding tank. It is my recommendation that you never ride any bus with a flushing toilet unless it's a Prevost (more on that later).

After another Day of Pain, I stumbled into Quality Inn Denver Westminster, pissed off at Greyhound, at MCI (the maker of the D4505), and at American Seating (the maker of the Painful Premier seats). This hotel wasn't as nice as the Radisson, but it was tolerable.

The next day, I headed out to Denver Greyhound for my ride to Plainview and noted how Denver's Neoplan and NABI commuter buses were much more comfortable than the D4505 and didn't reek of feces. Once inside the terminal, I saw that my bus to Plainview would be 2014 X3-45 #60414, a brand-new Greyhound X3-45. The bus was running Denver-Dallas. As always, I picked up my tickets, checked my bag, and boarding the bus. Noticing that the front row was empty, I asked Driver Joseph Dent if I could sit there. He laughed and said that of course I could sit there unless someone elderly or with a disability wanted to sit there. Joseph was much better than the previous drivers and kept a cool demeanor. The previous drivers acted like they hated their job, their stinking D4505 bus, and their passengers.

The Prevost X3-45 rides very smooth and #60414 is part of a special batch that has TVs and window shades. The bus was clean and had no odor. Prevost's flushing toilets have a flap that keeps the odor down. Joseph drove at the speed limit on the circuitous route, which heads south on I-25 to Pueblo, then east on US 50 to Lamar, then south on US 287 to Amarillo. I got some gas station hot dogs in Lamar, which were a bit overpriced but OK. I didn't find the Restaurant behind the gas station, which serves much better food. Joseph pulled into Amarillo only a few minutes late and, after we got off, took the bus to the old TNM&O garage for cleaning and refueling. That was redundant, since the X3-45 has more than enough range to reach Dallas from Denver.

I strolled around Amarillo and noticed the typical loiterers around the Greyhound station. There were many of them around the Reno, SLC, and Denver stations, too. After an hour, the X3-45 came back, driven by Hicks this time. Hicks was friendly, but wouldn't let anyone sit in the front row. I saw this before boarding, and took a seat a bit further back. The bus drove south on US 87 and arrived in Plainview after dark. #60414 would continue on its circuitous route through Lubbock to reach Dallas. At Plainview, I had a burger at the McDonald's and checked in to the Super 8.

The next morning, I had breakfast in the Super 8 and went to the gas station to wait for my delayed bus to Fredericksburg. I had seen on BusTracker that it would be 2001 (2002 model year) G4500 #7077, running Amarillo-San Antonio. I saw a White G turn the corner and pull in. There were two drivers in the front, one driving, one cushioning. The older driver who was driving appeared unhappy and was annoyed that I hadn't tagged my bag in advance. Soon, I understood the reason. The front suspension had broken and the bus would bottom out if it tried to go anywhere. I found a seat towards the front, but the recline was all the way back and would not reset. At least the seat was a really thick FAINSA Brasil. Meanwhile, our driver left the door open and told us this would take a while and that we might as well take a stretch. She was on the phone trying to troubleshoot the bus. I saw her open the front luggage bay, then, after a while, come back in and pump the brakes. The other driver, Rhonda, tried to assist, but there was no way to get the suspension up. Eventually, both drivers were just talking to each other about various bus models, saying how bad the G4500 was and how the D4505 has a terrible engine brake. The bus lost air all the way in the front and the driver backed us into a parking spot after calling for a replacement bus.

The replacement, March 1999 DL3 #6309, pulled in from Amarillo, with a good-natured driver named Gilbert at the wheel. We departed Plainview nearly two hours late, but it wasn't too bad since I basically just hung out in Plainview. By the way, while we were waiting, White G #7079 had stopped and left on a Dallas-Denver run. It was beat up just like #7077, but at least it was working. We got to Fredericksburg 1 hour 38 minutes late.

Fredericksburg's lack of public transit is annoying, but expected, since it's a small town. I enjoyed visiting the National Museum of the Pacific War. The next day, I hopped over to San Antonio on the same schedule that dropped me off the day before. This time, it was 2003 J4500 #6989, driven by Joseph Dent again. The J4500 had lots of legroom and didn't smell bad, but it was a bit dusty inside, didn't ride the smoothest, and had clearly audible engine noise. But most impressive was the legroom, so ample that I couldn't reach the seat in front. Again, the schedule was late, but I had seen that on BusTracker and spent more time in the Museum.

I found Downtown San Antonio to be dirty, with lots of suspicious people loitering around. I walked to the wrong Holiday Inn and then found the Holiday Inn Market Center. Just to get there, I had to run a gauntlet of vagrants and loiterers. Fortunately, the hotel was right by Police HQ, and that area was safe. Mi Tierra Cafe was also right around the corner, so I went there for dinner.

The next day, I toured around Downtown and visited the Alamo. Finding lots of mosquitos and suspicious people, I took a joyride on VIA Transit to the Walmart in the Northwest to buy some food. The potato wedges are actually pretty good.

The next day, I went to Houston on Greyhound's morning departure 9080. It was 2003 G4500 Blue #7274 driven by Darrell nonstop. We departed a few minutes late and arrived on time. Really enjoyed the legroom and ultra-think seats on the Blue G.

In Houston, I was surprised to see that the bus terminal was very clean and all the buses had their entrance doors directly lined up the gate. Basically, it's the effect of going from an air-conditioned bus into an air-conditioned room. Two more Blue G's were there, as well as J4500 #6990 going to Dallas, which has American Seating 2003. I went to the Downtown Transit Center to buy a Day Pass, while running another gaunlet of suspicious people. Homeless and vagrants besieged the Transit Center, but it was very clean inside the building. Saw a Megabus TD925 loading around there. Bad idea, too dangerous. I spend the afternoon in the Holocaust Museum and rode Route 102 north to my hotel, the Hyatt Place IAH. That bus was a D4500CT with American Seating 2095, not too comfortable but at least it didn't smell like the disgusting D4505s with flushing toilets.

On my second day in Houston, I went to the Space Center. Rode the 102 and transferred in Downtown to the 249. Seems like all the Gulf Corridor buses are D4500CTHs. These are the new hybrids with the slimline German-made Kiel Avance seats. No luggage bays available since all the space is taken up by hybrid equipment. I really enjoyed the new interior on the D4500CTH. The Kiel seats, being slimline, offered ample legroom and remarkably excellent lumber support, but were a bit too hard. It's definitely leagues better than American Seating, though. But the new flap air vents like to break already. Also, the drivers kept jerking the bus when braking.

Third day in Houston was spent at the Museum of Natural Science. Then I rode DL3 #6925 to Dallas. The driver, I think his name was Marco, departed 30 minutes late for no reason and got stuck in traffic. We were late by Conroe. When we got to Huntsville, the driver bottomed out the bus. We blocked traffic across a road and had to call a tow truck. The passengers were pissed but the driver didn't really care since he would get overtime pay. Grabbed a suspicious taxi to get the Magnolia Hotel Dallas-Park Cities, which is a great hotel by the way.

The first day in Dallas, I went to the AA Museum in Fort Worth. That was a great museum for an airplane enthusiast. Rode the TRE there and back, and I noticed the really wide air vent that impedes legroom on the upper level of the Bombardiers.

The next day, I rode DART to the Arboretum and back and had to evade suspicious loiterers near Union Station. I really like riding the new NABI 40-LFWs and can't understand why NABI has such a bad reputation when MCI D4505s and Orion VIIs suck so much. Houston Metro's Orion VII that I rode really sucked with a rough ride and super-loud engine. Love the 40-LFW in comparison.

I also went to the Dallas Galleria just to check it out. It's a great, fun mall, but I'm not much of a shopper and didn't buy anything other than some cheap dress pants.

My last day in Dallas, I went to the Sixth Floor Museum, and felt like there could have been more content or a lower admission price. That evening, I rode 2009 X3-45 #86100 to Vernon. Driver Linda, an elderly black lady, insisted that everyone remain quiet and keep their voiced low. The seat was a rock-hard cloth velour Premier but at least it didn't sag like the vinyl Premiers do. Still don't like the Premier but I do like the X3-45 for night rides. It's really smooth and quiet. Too bad the window sill is too high and provides a poor view for shorter guys like me. Then again, the Premier is too low and restricts legroom.

After that, it was Blue G4500 #7028, D4505 #86542, and D4505 #86304 from Vernon to Denver to SLC to Reno. #7028 was a comfortable bus with lots of legroom and satisfactory interior cleanliness. The first driver got off in Amarillo and Lisa drove it to Denver. The bus swayed a bit and had a really high-pitched brake sequel. An old destroyer veteran was on the bus and quite friendly. Maybe Greyhound Denver Maintenance Center ought to check that out. Lisa was a funny middle-aged new driver from Phoenix, and this was her first time to Denver. She wore the black-and-white trainee uniform.

Chris from Salt Lake City drove #86542. This was my second time on that bus, since I'd ridden it from Reno to San Francisco back in December 2013. Back then, it was brand-new and the seats hadn't started sagging yet. Now the seats are sagging and sliding, but the bus still rode silky-smooth with Chris at the wheel. He's a very friendly driver and he was clearly highly skilled, too, even though he's had only been driving for 4 months. This D4505, like all the others, had the stupid smell from the flushing toilet mixed with chemicals dumped it to clear it out.

Dave Wood, a Driver Training Instructor who preferred to be called "Bus Driver", drove #86304. The D4505 smelled bad and had painful seats. It swayed in a desert thunderstorm. We passed a huge Coach USA convoy of C2045s, D4505s, at least one 102D3, and various other buses headed eastbound. We were also overtaken by a pair of fast Northrop 102D3s, probably with no speed governor. Otherwise, it was an uneventful trip.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 31, 2015)

Nice pics and a heck of a long way to ride Buses that you found uncomfortable, smelly and dangerous!

Conspicuous from your report is a visit to Austin, Bar-B-Q Capitol of the World!.

As a Texan, I'm surprised you didn't visit, but as an Austin Resident I gotta tell you that the Best Places to visit in Texas are Alpine and the Davis Mountains in West Texas and the Piney Woods of East Texas!

I rode a Kerrville Bus from San Antonio via Amarillo and Raton to Colorado Springs in 1961 and have never forgotten how much it sucked!

Make mine Trains instead! YMMV


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## printman2000 (Jul 31, 2015)

If I had known you were coming through Amarillo I would have come down to say "hey". Don't get many people from this forum coming through here.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 31, 2015)

Yeah, I hate the D4505 with a passion. Heck, I also hate American Seating with a passion. Since Greyhound insists on using D4505s in the West, I'm boycotting Greyhound. That being said, Greyhound was fine once I got past Denver. Not having D4505s made such a huge difference. Sure, I got delayed in Plainview and again in Huntsville, but that was not nearly as bad as riding in a D4505.

If Greyhound had no D4505s and no American Seating, I wouldn't be boycotting them. But they do, and they took delivery of some more American Seating-equipped D4505s last month.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 31, 2015)

It's curious to hear about a city of two million reduced to a quip about mosquitoes and suspicious people. Then again that's pretty much how I feel about Houston so who am I to talk. Personally I think you should have spent less time asking about Texas vs. Michigan or Minnesota and more time asking about what to do once you got there. Just my two centavos. Have you ever thought about inquiring with Greyhound to become a secret shopper or something? I've never come across anyone who knew or cared about buses as much as you do.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 31, 2015)

Uh, I don't understand?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 31, 2015)

I actually enjoyed the trip and the museums. I guess that didn't come through in my OP but I think it was a great trip, just the D4505s really sucked. I focused the trip report on the transportation rather than what I did once I got there. The suspicious people were hanging around the transit centers and bus stations, so that's why I included them, but they're in Reno, too. I looked through TripAdvisor and LonelyPlanet beforehand, so I didn't feel the need to ask here. All I had to decide was between Texas and Missouri. I'm happy with the choice I made and I'm happy with the way the trip turned out. 'Twas a great trip.

But I hate the D4505 with a passion. I didn't ride any of them past Denver, so they don't actually run much in Texas expect the Los Angeles-Dallas and probably the OK-owned units doing Oklahoma City-Dallas. I should have flown to Denver and flown back from Dallas.

Down with D4505! Down with the Shiny Blue Dungeons!


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## Alice (Aug 1, 2015)

I wonder if those those drivers were cranky because they had to put up with uncomfortable seats and bad smells for even longer than you, and the other problems.

As to saving the front sets for elderly/disabled, that might be a policy thing. The law is kind of strange, it requires drivers to ask people to vacate those seats when needed, but does not require them to force people to leave those seats. It makes sense because they aren't cops. But that means if someone later needs those seats, they are going to be left behind and cause other problems. It is kind of like Amtrak saving the H-rooms until the others are all booked.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 1, 2015)

That's probably true. The least friendly drivers were the two outbound D4505 drivers. I'm not sure if their seat is comfortable or not, but the smell sucks and the performance of the D4505 is quite bad. Despite their young age, the D4505s are in poor condition and frequently break down. When the "regeneration" fails, black smoke spews out the back and the engine automatically stops. Improper use of the engine brake also results in "STOP ENGINE". At least three have caught on fire and at least one of those was rebuilt, repainted, and put back into service, with a host of mechanical problems.

This is the D4505 driver's seat: http://www.usscgroup.com/seating/lx-series/. I've never tried it out before. I've tried out the DL3 driver's seat on another operator.

One can't really say the seats are a policy thing. The drivers have a manifest and Greyhound claims they have "Guaranteed Seating on All Buses". #86308 was only half-full, yet driver Al Garcia blocked off the front row and said, "Nobody sits there!"

He's driven that route for years and he knows as well as anybody that very few people get on between Reno and SLC. If someone needed the seat, I would be happy to move. But not letting anyone sit there under any circumstances is stupid. Al was probably just annoyed that he was carrying a load of vagrants on a duct-taped, smelly, disgusting D4505. The slits in the rear had fallen out and were duct-taped over, a major problem in modern buses.

Driver of #86317 wasn't as bad but he wasn't great, either.

Once again, the Shiny Blue Dungeons in the pictures are #86308, #86317, #86542, and #86304. Their fleet numbers are #86300-86407 and #86500-86586.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 1, 2015)

Attached are photos of D4505 seats. These seats are broken, but broken seats are normal in the D4505. I'd be surprised to see a D4505 seat not broken by now.


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## OBS (Aug 1, 2015)

Thanks for the report, and your interesting perspective on things...


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Uh, I don't understand?


I was surprised at how my hometown of San Antonio sounded like a quick and minor detour that consisted of little more than suspicious people and mosquitoes. Upon reflection I realized that my own view of Houston was not very different than your view of my town. More to the point I was surprised that you didn't ask for suggestions of specific itineraries after deciding to visit Texas. San Antonio has a lot more to do than just hang around the Alamo or take a bus to Walmart but maybe that's just how you roll. In any case I suggested you see if Greyhound has any openings for secret shoppers or customer advocates because you seem like someone who would enjoy that role.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 2, 2015)

Before Greyhound hires any secret shoppers, their executives should jump Los Angeles Maintenance Center with a surprise inspection and see for themselves how bad the D4505s are. I doubt I would enjoy that role considering I have an axe to grind with the D4505.

Greyhound has been using Painful Premiers since 2009 and such-equipped D4505s since 2010. They should have been able to figure it out by now that they were buying the wrong seats and the wrong buses. Yet, in June 2015, Greyhound took delivery of a few more Premier-equipped D4505s.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Aug 3, 2015)

I agree with Swadian about the D4505's, they are absolutely painful to ride, the seats are horrible, the ride is jittery and rough, the engine is rough. I know why GLI is trying to get more Prevost' buses, The X3-45's do ride nicely, due to a longer wheelbase than the MCI fleet. The "sub" Premier seats hurt after an hour or so regardless of what model bus they are installed in. They are flat with basically no bolstering or support. I have talked to drivers who hate the flat seats as well, so its not just the passengers that hate them. I wish Greyhound would use the Amaya Brasil seats like the J4500 has, those are some nice seats.

I always choose Amtrak before I suffer Greyhound, and if I do have to ride Greyhound, I make sure the distance isnt anything over 8 hours, thats about my limit. I spent alot of time in my younger days traveling across country by bus, so I think my back just cant handle the bus seats anymore for long trips.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 3, 2015)

With those Painful Premiers, I can't disagree. Amtrak just doesn't have enough trains. Greyhound actually took delivery of more D4505s in June 2015. I don't know why they did that, because the D4505 is the least efficient bus in Greyhound's fleet. I think the newest ones are state-owned, so Greyhound didn't have to pay for them. If they did, they would have purchased more X3-45s, which not only ride better, but also use less fuel and don't smell nearly as bad.

However, I'm very angry that Greyhound continues to order Painful Premiers, even though 90% of everyone that sits in them hates them. I'm also angry that Greyhound failed to correct the mistakes in their route map after I pointed it out to them in an e-mail. That was back in September 2014, IIRC.

The G4500 actually has the same wheelbase as the X3-45, but doesn't ride as well for lack of IFS.

The J4500 I rode has FAINSA Brasil, which are also used in the G4500.

I'm not sure what's up with the D4505 engines. The older ones have the Detroit 60 14L, also used in the older X3-45s, while the newer ones have the Cummins ISX12. Those EGR-equipped Detroit 60s seem to be very unreliable, but the Cummins isn't much better. Both guzzle fuel. Pre-EGR Detroit 60s were awesome AFAIK. The new X3-45s use Volvo D13 engines, which are quiet and efficient, but not as efficient as the old Detroit 60.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Aug 3, 2015)

Even if GLI used the "sporty" type leather seats that they are putting in some of the older D4500's, those are tolerable at least. I dont know if GLI ordered a fleet of ZF-Astronics (manumatic) in some of the older buses, but man, some of these drivers need to either leave it in full auto mode, or learn how to up and downshift these things, these things get to jerking pretty hard when being manually shifted, and its not a comfy feeling either. I dont know if some of the Allison B500's are just wearing out with harsh shifting either though. Its a funny sound when you are going up an onramp and you feel and hear *jerk* pshhhhh *click* *jerk*. Its even funnier when the driver goes "oh crap, *shift *jerk* there we go". Its hard not to laugh on a bus full of people trying to sleep. Its one of those "you have to experience it to understand" type things.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 3, 2015)

You means the DL3s? Yeah, some of them have the ZF AsTronic. #6925 had the ZF but #6309 still had the old Allison B500. Both shifted smoothly, the B500 more so.


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## caravanman (Aug 3, 2015)

Maybe the "no passengers in the front rows" is a driver self preservation issue... If passengers don't like smelly smokers near them, I guess the drivers might prefer a buffer zone too? 

Ed.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 3, 2015)

You've got a good point. Then again, the bus HVAC runs on recirculated air, so the buffer zone is useless. All the smelly air gets evenly distributed throughout the interior, from the lavatory to the driver's seat. And believe me, those D4505s smelled like crap from head to toe!

I wish the drivers could have rejected the D4505 and chosen another bus. I do believe a driver has to cite a reason for rejection of the D4505. Man, I was hoping that at least one of the D4505s would break down and get replaced by something else.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Aug 3, 2015)

I think the no front row sitting got stricter enforcement after a few people have attacked drivers in the past few years. Thats also why the safety dividers got installed as well.

Funny story. I boarded a bus in El Paso heading back to Lafayette, and the driver goes to close the safety door, and I kid you not, the thing broke off of the hinges in his hand, we all started laughing, and he laughed and goes, y'all wont attack me due to our late departure right? we were all like nahhhhh, he laughed and we had an uneventful trip to San Antonio. It was an older Coach USA DL3, but it was one of the cleanest ones I've seen.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 3, 2015)

How come a Coach USA DL3 was operating for Greyhound? I thought Stagecoach's Coach USA was rivals with FirstGroup America. Had no idea the safety door would be on the Coach USA buses too.

The safety doors were installed around 2003 after a DL3 driver got stabbed by a passenger. Yet the doors seem useless, since more passengers have attacked the driver since their installation and crashed the bus. These passengers generally sit near the back and run up to attack the driver. Perhaps if the driver would allow people to sit in the front row, they would trip the assailant when he runs up. If the front row passengers behaved suspiciously or aggressively, the driver would see them and kick them off the bus.

Those flimsy safety doors do seem to rattle a lot and I'm not surprised one fell off. #60556 didn't have one. The driver let me sit in the front row and nobody attacked him. That was last Christmas. Generally, the Christmas crowds are not dangerous.

One thing I like about the H3-45 is that there's a small flight of steps between the driver and the passengers. So if someone tried to run up, he would most likely trip and fall.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Aug 3, 2015)

This trip was many years ago (2003 or so) Swadian, I believe that Coach USA had a few route segments in Texas and Louisiana at the time. I remember going to Shreveport from Lafayette on Coach USA equipment before GLI took over that route segment. I remember that he made an announcement that as we pulled into San Antonio, we would be switching back to GLI equipment. That was the first time I've heard a driver make that kind of announcement. I found it slightly strange at the time.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 3, 2015)

Oh, I get it. There's the guy named Tom Langford. He used to work for Kerrville Bus Company. KBC ran a smattering Texas. They had been cooperating with Greyhound since the 1960s and sometimes pooled equipment. They were bought by Coach America, then in turn by Coach USA. Coach USA forced them to discontinue cooperation with Greyhound. Kerrville has since switched to become the Megabus operator in Texas.

Tom says they got some Van Hools that were a pain in the [edited] and had flushing toilets that often clogged up. Same problem with the D4505, hence the bad smell.


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