# Longest 2 Zone Reward trip? Also longest 1 Zone?



## Bill Harrison (Apr 22, 2010)

Now that "Loopholes" are a thing of the past, I cant use my points for the KWD-CBS as planned, that has become a 3 zone trip.

So now, I only have enough for a 2 zone trip, what is the "Longest" 2 zone trip I can take? Anyone know what it is? Also bonus points for any long 1 zone trips.

Thanks!


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## MrFSS (Apr 22, 2010)

Bill Harrison said:


> Now that "Loopholes" are a thing of the past, I cant use my points for the KWD-CBS as planned, that has become a 3 zone trip.
> So now, I only have enough for a 2 zone trip, what is the "Longest" 2 zone trip I can take? Anyone know what it is? Also bonus points for any long 1 zone trips.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm doing the CHI - LAX - PDX trip next month. You could go CHI - LAX - SEA. I'm stopping at PDX as I catch the EB back to CHI with a guaranteed connection.


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## Cristobal (Apr 22, 2010)

MrFSS said:


> Bill Harrison said:
> 
> 
> > Now that "Loopholes" are a thing of the past, I cant use my points for the KWD-CBS as planned, that has become a 3 zone trip.
> ...


Hopefully that will still be available next year as a 2-zone trip because I'm planning to do CHI-LAX-TAC maybe around this time next year with the points that I'm accumulating this year.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

I think El Paso to New Orleans via Chicago is probably the longest but not that great. ABQ-WPT via LAX and PDX would be be the best in my book. ATL-MIA is decent length, but flights from ATL to Florida are dirt cheap so it is not worth it. MIA-BUF via SM and LSL is decently long.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

one zone trips that is


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

Guest said:


> MIA-BUF via SM and LSL is decently long.


Actually you can do MIA-TOL and it will give you the SM and LSL routing. I have been looking at going to BUF so it is stuck in my mind.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 22, 2010)

Guest said:


> I think El Paso to New Orleans via Chicago is probably the longest but not that great. ABQ-WPT via LAX and PDX would be be the best in my book. ATL-MIA is decent length, but flights from ATL to Florida are dirt cheap so it is not worth it. MIA-BUF via SM and LSL is decently long.


I'd say it's a toss up between ABQ-LAX-PDX-WPT and DEN-SAC-PDX-WPT. The former is longer, but the latter might have better scenery. Since I'm doing both this summer (though continuing on to MOT in both cases), I'll report back. Another long one (though a bit drab scenery wise) would be WPT-CHI-NOL.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

2 zone - NOL-SEA on CONO, SWC, and CS might be the longest


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 22, 2010)

Bill Harrison said:


> Now that "Loopholes" are a thing of the past, I cant use my points for the KWD-CBS as planned, that has become a 3 zone trip.
> So now, I only have enough for a 2 zone trip, what is the "Longest" 2 zone trip I can take? Anyone know what it is? Also bonus points for any long 1 zone trips.
> 
> Thanks!


Question for everyone: "Are "Loophole Trips" really a thing of the past or just certain ones like KWD-LAX-PDX-CBS? IINM the Slidell,LA routes are still available as one and two zone awards depending on where one goes!Several posters keep saying that you can leave from NOL now on the Slidell "loopholes", if so, you have to spend the night in NOL on your nickel which means that the Loopholes here HAVE gone away?  

If there are no more Loophole trips Id have to say ELP-WPT via PDX would be the longest, other thought would be ELP-CHI-MIA via TE/CL or Card/Silver Meteor! :unsure: or vice versa!


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## Ispolkom (Apr 22, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> Question for everyone: "Are "Loophole Trips" really a thing of the past or just certain ones like KWD-LAX-PDX-CBS? IINM the Slidell,LA routes are still available as one and two zone awards depending on where one goes!Several posters keep saying that you can leave from NOL now on the Slidell "loopholes", if so, you have to spend the night in NOL on your nickel which means that the Loopholes here HAVE gone away?


Not much evidence either way. After all, I booked a Minot-Chicago-Washington-Slidell one-zone trip at the beginning of this month. No muss, no fuss, got the 10% rebate.

On the other hand, I notice on FlyerTalk that someone tried to book a trip from Atlanta to Portland, Ore., only to be told that it was a three-zone trip *and had been for years.* Given that the bolded part of the last sentence isn't true, I'm not sure of the first part.

Booking circuitous routes has always taken a fair amount of luck and/or charm (at least for me), so perhaps right now it requires more.


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## alanh (Apr 22, 2010)

It sounds like they are now counting all the zones you travel through, not just the zones of the end points. So yes, the Slidel loophole (routing through WAS rather than connecting overnight in New Orleans) would be dead.

As I said elsewhere they were probably more worried about what airlines call hidden city ticketing. This is where you book A-C via B and throw away B-C because A-B is more expensive than A-C. It's often expensive to fly to an airline's hub, but cheaper to connect via it. So Phoenix-Atlanta-Providence is cheaper than Phoenix-Atlanta. If you book a roundtrip PHX-PVD-PHX and skip the ATL-PVD flight, the airline will cancel your return tickets.

All of the loophole trips would be prone to this, because you can always get off while in the "extra" zone. You could book SEA-SDL bedroom and get off in WAS, saving 20,000 points. AGR doesn't have a lot of options to control this; they could try billing the extra 20K, but what if you don't have the points? Or you claim you did ride and the conductor must have lost the ticket.

I think they figured that the number of people actually wanting to maximize the time on the train were small vs. the number that would do a hidden city ticket, so unfortunately it's the loophole fans that lost.


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## nferr (Apr 22, 2010)

Guest said:


> 2 zone - NOL-SEA on CONO, SWC, and CS might be the longest


I've been thinking of that one for a trip myself.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 22, 2010)

alanh said:


> It sounds like they are now counting all the zones you travel through, not just the zones of the end points. So yes, the Slidel loophole (routing through WAS rather than connecting overnight in New Orleans) would be dead.


An equally parsimonious theory would be that AGR doesn't like the Kansas City-Columbus route and is now cracking down on that, just as earlier the routing SDL-CVS-CHI-LAX-PDX disappeared from Amtrak.com. It will take a few more attempted bookings to demonstrate that AGR has changed its policy (if it ever had a policy) on other circuitous routings.


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## ScottP (Apr 23, 2010)

The longest one zone trips I have been able to find are Trinidad Colorado (TRI) to Wolf Point Montana (WPT) and Hammond Louisiana (HMD) to El Paso Texas (ELP). Both give you more than 70 hours of travel time. The first route is part of the old KWD to CBS loophole. I haven't booked the routes to see if they are actually one zone but it looks like they should be on the map. The other route that should be possible is ELP to WPT. The computer won't let you book the trip but in an earlier thread it was said that an agent may be able to book it.


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## Bill Harrison (Apr 26, 2010)

So far the ticket looks like TOL to SEA via chicago, Los angeles, portland, to sea

I can catch a cheap train from CLE to TOL (18$ per person) and fly back from SEA to CAK for 122$ per person. Looks like total train time 82 Hours (about 4 days and 3 nights).

This is a 2 zone trip. Mainly what I want scenery wise. And a total Cash outlay of around 300$ + 20000 points for a 2 zone roomette.

The other interesting run is KWD to WPT. I come up with 92.5 hours, but the problem atleast for me is the end point - No nearby airports so airfare from WPT to ne ohio is big bucks, finishing the ride on Amtrak from wpt to cle is $400 in coach! for 2. Plus train to KWD is around 200 for 2. So total cash around 600 + 20000 points for 2 zone roomette.

Financially the first trip seems best. I think I could do the 1st trip to spokane just to slap a few extra hours on it, but then airfare doubles versus seattle.

Another interesting option I found for me was NOL to SEA via chicago, LA, portland to sea. 97 hours, 2 zone trip. Problem here is I would need 2 flights, one to NOL, then one from SEA, pushing the price up.

Or for a real fun trip, Cleveland to Wash DC, wash DC to NOL, then the trip above, NOL to SEA. Would have to pay cash for the trip to NOL though, around $500 for a roomette for 2, plus the airfare from Sea, making it around $800 Dollars for the trip, but would be about 138 hours of train time.

Anyways those are the best uses of 20000 points i could find (2 zones in a roomette).


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## Bigval109 (Apr 28, 2010)

alanh said:


> It sounds like they are now counting all the zones you travel through, not just the zones of the end points. So yes, the Slidel loophole (routing through WAS rather than connecting overnight in New Orleans) would be dead.
> As I said elsewhere they were probably more worried about what airlines call hidden city ticketing. This is where you book A-C via B and throw away B-C because A-B is more expensive than A-C. It's often expensive to fly to an airline's hub, but cheaper to connect via it. So Phoenix-Atlanta-Providence is cheaper than Phoenix-Atlanta. If you book a roundtrip PHX-PVD-PHX and skip the ATL-PVD flight, the airline will cancel your return tickets.
> 
> All of the loophole trips would be prone to this, because you can always get off while in the "extra" zone. You could book SEA-SDL bedroom and get off in WAS, saving 20,000 points. AGR doesn't have a lot of options to control this; they could try billing the extra 20K, but what if you don't have the points? Or you claim you did ride and the conductor must have lost the ticket.
> ...


What happens when you do a hidden ticket? Say get off in was instead of going all the way to atl. Don't get me wrong I just want to know what's the deal. I have already brought a ticket back home from atl. I have the reward sleeper going down and paid coach coming back. Also does AGR get the reward used tickets back?


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## AlanB (Apr 29, 2010)

Bigval109 said:


> What happens when you do a hidden ticket? Say get off in was instead of going all the way to atl. Don't get me wrong I just want to know what's the deal. I have already brought a ticket back home from atl. I have the reward sleeper going down and paid coach coming back. Also does AGR get the reward used tickets back?


AGR doesn't get the ticket back physically, but just like when you travel on a paid ticket, the AGR ticket is still scanned by Amtrak. And because that ticket has your AGR number on it, it will post to your account with zero points, since the dollar value is zero.

Now it's my understanding that if the ticket doesn't post to your account, indicating the possibility that you threw the ticket away and defrauded AGR by pretending to go to ATL, that they will then charge your AGR account for the extra points to reach a 3-zone award. I've not yet heard of this actually happening to anyone, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't. If you don't have the points in your account, then I'm not sure just what they'll do. Perhaps close your account, perhaps debit your account for the points meaing that any future paid trips you take help to pay off that negative balance, or perhaps they'll just send you a bill for the trip.


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## RRrich (Apr 29, 2010)

If you are ticketed to ATL via WAS and you get off in WAS you ticket to ATL is not scanned but what if you ride one stop out of WAS toward ATL (and get your ticket scanned) then detrain taking your seat check with you? Would anyone know?


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## City of Miami (May 16, 2010)

Last August with AGR points I did Austin to Seattle via Springfield, Galesberg, Sacramento. That was 4 nights and 5 full days on the train. Fully within 2 zones, 20K points. I thought that was hard to beat.

I did the Atlanta to Emeryville one a few years ago (via WAS, CHI, DEN), similar length and points. That, of course, involved the 'loophole' but it was not contrived as I was in Columbus GA visiting my brother and returning home to San Francsico.


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