# empire builder



## laser (Jun 25, 2009)

I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference is between a 28 Empire Builder and an 8 Empire Builder. When looking at fares from Montana to Minnesota, these were the two options. And the 28 Empire is about double the price! Thanks.


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## JayPea (Jun 25, 2009)

laser said:


> I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference is between a 28 Empire Builder and an 8 Empire Builder. When looking at fares from Montana to Minnesota, these were the two options. And the 28 Empire is about double the price! Thanks.



The Nos. 8 and 28 Empire Builder, from Spokane eastward, are one and the same train. The Empire Builder, going east, begins as separate trains in Seattle and Portland. In Spokane, the two sections are joined to make one train. 8 actually refers to the Seattle section, 28 the Portland section. When they are joined in Spokane, the train becomes 8/28, to be technical.


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## laser (Jun 25, 2009)

So if I wanted to leave from Montana to get to Minnesota, would I buy a ticket for 28 Empire or 8 Empire?


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## JayPea (Jun 25, 2009)

In that case, the #8, since it's half the price!


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## Rail Freak (Jun 25, 2009)

JayPea said:


> In that case, the #8, since it's half the price!



Why do you say that?

RF :huh:


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## JayPea (Jun 25, 2009)

laser said:


> I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference is between a 28 Empire Builder and an 8 Empire Builder. When looking at fares from Montana to Minnesota, these were the two options. * And the 28 Empire is about double the price!* Thanks.



That's why!!!! :lol:


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## MattW (Jun 25, 2009)

If two "trains" go the same place at the same time, then choose the cheaper! Can't really go wrong there


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## saxman (Jun 25, 2009)

laser said:


> So if I wanted to leave from Montana to get to Minnesota, would I buy a ticket for 28 Empire or 8 Empire?


As said above, its the same train. So unless you want to pay more, get the cheaper one. There's no difference.


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## RRrich (Jun 25, 2009)

Support Amtrak - buy the most expensive one 

In St Louis the Texas Eagle can be 22,322 or 422 depending were it originated - I just buy the cheapest. Gee I don't take my own advice.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 25, 2009)

It is simple supply and demand.

Train 8 runs with three sleepers and train 28 only with one. This means that rooms in 28 sell out long before rooms in train 8 sell out-- it leads to higher prices due to the bucket system (which I and others could explain) but in the end, just think of it as supply and demand.


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## the_traveler (Jun 25, 2009)

If you want to spend more, chose the "train" that has the lowest fare, and then send me the difference between that fare and the higher fare! 

Seriously, since there is only one (complete) train, car #5 departs @ 3:37 and arrives @ 12:52, and car #7 departs @ 3:37 and arrives @ 12:52 also!  Chose the "train" with the lowest fare!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 25, 2009)

If you want to walk on train 28, then book a room at 28, then walk to the back until you see a Sightseer Lounge-- welcome to train 28!


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## the_traveler (Jun 25, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> If you want to walk on train 28, then *book a room at 28, then walk to the back* until you see a Sightseer Lounge-- welcome to train 28!


I think you meant "Book a room on *8*"!  If you booked a room on 28 and walked back, it's a long walk - and a long fall! :lol: Car #2830 is the only PDX sleeper - and is the last car of the train!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 25, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to walk on train 28, then *book a room at 28, then walk to the back* until you see a Sightseer Lounge-- welcome to train 28!
> ...


You guys can PM me if you wanna correct me, y'know?

I know.. its more fun this way.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 25, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to walk on train 28, then *book a room at 28, then walk to the back* until you see a Sightseer Lounge-- welcome to train 28!
> ...


until MSP, correct?


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## Ispolkom (Jun 25, 2009)

Rail Freak said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


Some days. The St. Paul-Chicago coach isn't on the train every day, and of course some days there are private cars behind it.


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## jmbgeg (Jun 25, 2009)

laser said:


> I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference is between a 28 Empire Builder and an 8 Empire Builder. When looking at fares from Montana to Minnesota, these were the two options. And the 28 Empire is about double the price! Thanks.


The only time that it matters other than price whether you book on the Seattle or Portland portions of the Empire Builder is westbound, and then only if you are traveling west of Spokane. If you want Wenatchee, Everett, Edomds or Seattle, you want 7. If You want Pasco, Vancouver or Portland you want 27.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 25, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> laser said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering if anyone knows what the difference is between a 28 Empire Builder and an 8 Empire Builder. When looking at fares from Montana to Minnesota, these were the two options. And the 28 Empire is about double the price! Thanks.
> ...


While you are right that it doesn't matter as long as your are traveling between SPK and CHI, it DOES matter whether your book 7/27 or 8/28 if you aren't. Eastbound or Westbound, just like the LSL, the sleepers are almost always in different buckets and it almost always favors 7/8.


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## jmbgeg (Jun 26, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> jmbgeg said:
> 
> 
> > laser said:
> ...


That's why I said "other than price", which is the question of pricing buckets....


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 26, 2009)

jmbgeg said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > jmbgeg said:
> ...


Even then you're still not considering Cascade service. You can get a BC seat on the Cascades between SEA/PDX for under $40, and the difference between rooms on 7/8/27/28 could be hundreds!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 26, 2009)

Portland seems to be a more popular destination East and West bound, perhaps its because you can connect with

the CS southbound without having to spend the night in SEA or PDX?I tried three months agoi when I booked my upcoming trip to the West to book to or from PDX and All of the roomettes and bedrooms were sold out or were

high bucket(example: my deluxe BR from SEA-CHI is $476,low bucket, from PDX they wanted $1400+

and that was three months ago!Same thing from Chicago to PDX!Can anyone clarify this for us?Thanks.


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## EB_OBS (Jun 26, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Portland seems to be a more popular destination East and West bound, perhaps its because you can connect withthe CS southbound without having to spend the night in SEA or PDX?I tried three months agoi when I booked my upcoming trip to the West to book to or from PDX and All of the roomettes and bedrooms were sold out or were
> 
> high bucket(example: my deluxe BR from SEA-CHI is $476,low bucket, from PDX they wanted $1400+
> 
> and that was three months ago!Same thing from Chicago to PDX!Can anyone clarify this for us?Thanks.



I'd say the biggest reason it's common for the buckets to be higher on 27/28 is because there's less than 1/2 the number of rooms compared to 7/8. During peak season with the x31 car added there are 20 more rooms up front.


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## RTOlson (Jun 26, 2009)

Portland is likely a popular destination, but Seattle has more supply to meet demand. When I traveled on Empire Builder earlier this month, here's how many cars there were:

Seattle:

2 - Sleepers

1 - Transdorm (Sleeper)

2 - Coaches

Portland:

1 - Sleeper

2 - Coaches (one with lower deck baggage)

There are fewer cars for Portland although it's a matter of about 1.5 sleepers and about a fifth of a coach. That probably leads to a less supply when there is strong demand during the summer.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 26, 2009)

Thanx for the info/yall are right, supply and demand!!!


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