# Texas Eagle getting "Contemporary Dining?"



## WindyCityTexan (Aug 6, 2018)

I've been seeing posts on social media that Dining Car staff on the Texas Eagle are getting termination notices, and starting this fall the TE is getting boxed meals. These reports are coming from passengers on board the TE, who are getting their info directly from the DC staff on board.

Has anyone else heard this? I'm on the TE this week and will find out more.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

A couple other people on the forum have heard this from the TE diner staff. It's not official, and I'm sure there won't be any changes by the time you ride next week, but I would be pretty surprised if the Eagle has a full diner for much longer.


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## WindyCityTexan (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> A couple other people on the forum have heard this from the TE diner staff. It's not official, and I'm sure there won't be any changes by the time you ride next week, but I would be pretty surprised if the Eagle has a full diner for much longer.


Thanks, I know my trip will be full diner. But it's incomprehensible to think the southbound TE could end up with four boxed meals, and the northbound with five! That's a long route to have boxed meals the entire time.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

WindyCityTexan said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > A couple other people on the forum have heard this from the TE diner staff. It's not official, and I'm sure there won't be any changes by the time you ride next week, but I would be pretty surprised if the Eagle has a full diner for much longer.
> ...


Agreed. The LSL and CL are two of the shortest overnight rides in the country, serving only two meals each way. That's not ideal, but most people can handle that. But doing that for four or five meals is just not doable for a lot of people. It's just two few options for too long.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

This would be less incentive to ride the TE from CHI-SAS-LAX if true!


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> This would be less incentive to ride the TE from CHI-SAS-LAX if true!


Exactly! I wouldn't be able to ride the sole three night train in the country anymore. And if TE/SL through ridership takes a big hit, that might even give them justification to kill off the SL. Say it ain't so!


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 6, 2018)

We could ask Jim Bob to pick up some Texas barbecue and hand it to us as we pass through



.


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## Larry H. (Aug 6, 2018)

I have friends who ride this train often, they also use the Lake Shore. They have commented that on the Acela there are very nicely prepared but boxed meals. Unlike many of those on the new roll out. They have written to congressmen and Amtrak suggesting they try to upgrade the first class food to the quality of the Acela and offer more choices. I think that would be one answer that might satisfy some. Its always been a mystery to me why many moderate priced name restaurants can provide entree's mostly of decent quality and yet the awful goop and meat on warm roll with a few potato chips on the City Of New Orleans was so bad I couldn't eat it. If Amtrak really wants to keep getting new riders they need to become a first class operation an not winging it much of the time.


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## jebr (Aug 6, 2018)

I think the concept of boxed meals, in and of itself, is okay. But there needs to be more variety on the menu, and/or a large variety available for pre-order, if Amtrak wants to keep sleeper passengers beyond perhaps two or three meal periods. It would also make meals quite a bit more attractive for those who are only traveling through a meal period or two; being able to choose an entree you think you'll love is more appealing than having a choice of only a couple of entrees.

The other option for some alternative that still reduces labor costs significantly would be to have a cook/chef on board that still makes a wider variety of meals, but have it served to-go, or with minimal table service (order at counter, have meal delivered to table, but passengers dispose of their own waste and do their own drink refills.) A fair amount of fast-casual restaurants are going this way, and I still enjoy my meal in such an environment. But the food has to be good, otherwise it's not going to work.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 6, 2018)

jebr, I like your second option. There is a Panera near me that works just like that, and it works well.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

I agree with the option of pre-order. Even if it is just choosing something like “For lunch would you like a ham sandwich, pasta salad or meatless choice?”. I (and any other passengers) prefer not to eat meat or dairy, so do not like the option of getting a box lunch containing a roast beef sandwich with cheese cake or pudding for desert.


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## OBS (Aug 6, 2018)

WindyCityTexan said:


> I've been seeing posts on social media that Dining Car staff on the Texas Eagle are getting termination notices, and starting this fall the TE is getting boxed meals. These reports are coming from passengers on board the TE, who are getting their info directly from the DC staff on board.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this? I'm on the TE this week and will find out more.


I can assure you part of this is untrue. No employees on the TE will receive "termination notices". If jobs were being eliminated, there would be an abolishment notice posted showing which jobs are being eliminated and the effective date. Contractually they are only required to give 10 days advance notice although sometimes they are posted two to three weeks early to allow time to rebid any revised positions. If abolishment notices had been issued, these employees would know the exact date of any change. Also, no one is terminated, employees just bid or bump onto another job in the OBS system based on their seniority...


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would. To be clear, I'm not actually recommending Waffle House run Amtrak's dining airs, but I think that having an actual restaurant or restaurant chain take over the diners could work.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

Subway tried that in the cafe cars between ALB and NYP (where there is no cafe service on Empire Service trains that only operate between those two) a few years ago. They no longer do so.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Subway tried that in the cafe cars between ALB and NYP (where there is no cafe service on Empire Service trains that only operate between those two) a few years ago. They no longer do so.


But that ride is only a few hours and doesn't need full meal service, and Subway doesn't offer table service. I'm just wondering if a chain restaurant with proper table service could possibly take over a dining car and run a tighter and more efficient ship than Amtrak themselves. This is all hypothetical and I have no idea what realistically would or wouldn't work and why, but it's just a thought.


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## jebr (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Subway tried that in the cafe cars between ALB and NYP (where there is no cafe service on Empire Service trains that only operate between those two) a few years ago. They no longer do so.
> ...


The problem is staffing costs. A stationary restaurant can pay wait staff minimum wage (or even less than minimum wage and expect tips to pick up the rest) and fill the position. They can also fill it with part-time help that they don't have to pay benefits for. The nature of Amtrak's dining service doesn't allow for that kind of flexibility. Especially with delays, there aren't many places to turn staff and have them back home at the end of the day, so you're going to have to pay for people who are willing to work overnight. That drives up wages. That also means that you can't rely on part-time help, so a benefits package also has to be paid for. This is good for the workers, but it does drive up the cost, and so even with the efficiencies of scale there likely wouldn't be massive savings by outsourcing it.

(There'd probably be a bit, simply because Amtrak wouldn't need to do its own management of the diners, develop its own menus, etc., and could work with the bulk discounts a larger company may get, but I doubt it'd be enough to make the diners break-even or save the amount that the boxed meals save.)


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> To be clear, I'm not actually recommending Waffle House run Amtrak's dining airs, but I think that having an actual restaurant or restaurant chain take over the diners could work.


I hope not the Waffle House. They have one of the worst heath dept inspection histories.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > To be clear, I'm not actually recommending Waffle House run Amtrak's dining airs, but I think that having an actual restaurant or restaurant chain take over the diners could work.
> ...


Yeah, that sounds about right.


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## mitako (Aug 6, 2018)

Oh geez. I hope that isn't true. Hubby and I just decided this weekend that we'll take a trip to Dallas in the spring to visit his daughter, with a one-night stop in San Antonio on the way. That's a total of more than 80 hours on the Texas Eagle from Los Angeles to Dallas and back again, to say nothing of around $1,200 fare for a roomette. Cold, boxed food is not my idea of a meal, especially for that amount of time on a train. Might have to reconsider that trip, or at least our mode of transportation to get there.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

mitako said:


> Oh geez. I hope that isn't true. Hubby and I just decided this weekend that we'll take a trip to Dallas in the spring to visit his daughter, with a one-night stop in San Antonio on the way. That's a total of more than 80 hours on the Texas Eagle from Los Angeles to Dallas and back again, to say nothing of around $1,200 fare for a roomette. Cold, boxed food is not my idea of a meal, especially for that amount of time on a train. Might have to reconsider that trip, or at least our mode of transportation to get there.


Well you're only going to be on the Texas Eagle proper between San Antonio and Dallas, which means you'll only be getting two cold meals each way, which in my opinion really is not too bad. It isn't ideal, but you're still eating hot food for most of the trip, so it really could be worse.


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## jebr (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> mitako said:
> 
> 
> > Oh geez. I hope that isn't true. Hubby and I just decided this weekend that we'll take a trip to Dallas in the spring to visit his daughter, with a one-night stop in San Antonio on the way. That's a total of more than 80 hours on the Texas Eagle from Los Angeles to Dallas and back again, to say nothing of around $1,200 fare for a roomette. Cold, boxed food is not my idea of a meal, especially for that amount of time on a train. Might have to reconsider that trip, or at least our mode of transportation to get there.
> ...


There's also currently a hot entree available for lunch and dinner. Only one, so not much choice, but it is there.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

jebr said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > mitako said:
> ...


True. They're technically only constrained to cold food for that one breakfast. Even if I ate meat, I still wouldn't have the short rib for both lunches and the dinner, but as you said, it is there.


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## mitako (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Well you're only going to be on the Texas Eagle proper between San Antonio and Dallas, which means you'll only be getting two cold meals each way, which in my opinion really is not too bad. It isn't ideal, but you're still eating hot food for most of the trip, so it really could be worse.


But aren't the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle actually the same train from Los Angeles to San Antonio? So wouldn't the change in dining be applicable to both, and run the whole way through?


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

mitako said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Well you're only going to be on the Texas Eagle proper between San Antonio and Dallas, which means you'll only be getting two cold meals each way, which in my opinion really is not too bad. It isn't ideal, but you're still eating hot food for most of the trip, so it really could be worse.
> ...


It doesn't quite work like that. Between LAX and SAS, it really is just the Sunset Limited. Two cars from the TE hitchhike on it, but the rest of the train and the route itself counts as the Sunset Limited. So when we talk about a change happening to the Texas Eagle, we're just talking about the full SAS-CHI train, not the SAS-LAX portion. Hope that makes sense!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 6, 2018)

mitako said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Well you're only going to be on the Texas Eagle proper between San Antonio and Dallas, which means you'll only be getting two cold meals each way, which in my opinion really is not too bad. It isn't ideal, but you're still eating hot food for most of the trip, so it really could be worse.
> ...


Nope, the Full Diner on the Sunset Ltd (#1/#2) runs between LA and New Orleans.
The thru Cars of ##421/422 ( Sleeper and Coach) are switched to the Texas Eagle(##21/22) during the Layover in San Antonio. The Eagle uses a CCC ( Cross Country Cafe)for a Diner between SA and Chicago.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

Technically they are. But the Texas Eagle between LA and San Antonio consist of only 1 sleeping car and 1 coach car that is attached to the Sunset Limited. The SL is keeping the Dining Car.

The daily TE operates from San Antonio to Chicago.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

Yeah, so if the Eagle's diner (or technically CCC) gets the contemporary treatment, that only affects pax between SAS and CHI. Between SAS and LAX, the dining car, Sightseer Lounge, etc, are all from the Sunset Limited. Put simply, your three meals west of San Antonio will be hot and your two meals east of San Antonio would be cold.


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## mitako (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> mitako said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
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Ah, okay. It's a little confusing. When I went on to the Amtrak site to look at prices, I was offered both the SL and TE from Los Angeles to San Antonio. Both were the same price, so I guess it doesn't really matter which I select, or does it? I'll be fine with cold meals just on the portion from San Antonio to Dallas, as it isn't that far and we can always grab a decent breakfast before boarding the train.

The three-day-a-week SL makes planning a little more difficult, but I can work around that. Thanks for the information!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 6, 2018)

It DOES matter whether you ride #2 or #422 between LAX and SAS!

The #422 Sleeper and Coach are on the end of Train #2 ( with the Sleepee being the Last Car in the Consist)between LAX and SAS. Upon arrival into SAS, they are Switched to the Texas Eagle #22 during the Layover and you don't have to get Off the Train.( the Sleeper will be next to the CCC on #22, the #422 Coach will be the end Car on #22)

If you ride in a Sleeper or Coach on the Sunset Ltd. #2 you will have to de-train @ o-dark-thirty and wait until boarding @ 630am. The Small,Uncomfortable Amshak in SAS is NOT a place you want to spend several hours in!

If the Prices are the same for both #s, or even close, chose Train #422/#421! Trust us!!


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

Actually, it does matter!

If you chose train #2 connecting to train #22 or train #21 connecting to train #1, you will have to get off the train in San Antonio and wait inside the station overnight to board your connecting train. If you chose train #422 or train #421, you can if you wish stay aboard and sleep thru the stop. Those 2 cars are switch to the other train. Trains #2 and #1 go to/start from New Orleans.


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## JRR (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> jebr said:
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> > cpotisch said:
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While the short rib is hot, since it is heated in the bowl, the entire meal tastes like short rib. While I actually liked the flavor of the short rib but it was way too salty. I don’t think I’d have it again and no way I’d have it twice in one day or one trip.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> It DOES matter whether you ride #2 or #422 between LAX and SAS!
> 
> The #422 Sleeper and Coach are on the end of Train #2 ( with the Sleepee being the Last Car in the Consist)between LAX and SAS. Upon arrival into SAS, they are Switched to the Texas Eagle #22 during the Layover and you don't have to get Off the Train.( the Sleeper will be next to the CCC on #22, the #422 Coach will be the end Car on #22)
> 
> ...


It does if you don't want to get off the train, but when you're spending a day in San Antonio anyway, which she said they are, it ultimately doesn't.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

True, she did say “spending a day in San Antonio one way”, but I assume that they will be traveling straight thru in the other direction. Thus the recommendation for booking #422 or #421.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 6, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> True, she did say spending a day in San Antonio one way, but I assume that they will be traveling straight thru in the other direction. Thus the recommendation for booking #422 or #421.


Good point, I missed that!


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

I would say that a pretty simple but useful rule of thumb with Amtrak is that if it shows two trains on your itinerary, you're going to have to switch - whether that be to an entirely different train or just to another car. If it shows it as one train the whole way through (like with 421/422), you know that you're not going to switch. I know that that sounds pretty basic, but I feel like it clears up a lot of stuff and confusion with the Lake Shore, Sunset Limited, Texas Eagle, etc. So if you don't want to change trains, make sure you're ticket is for one train.


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## mitako (Aug 6, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> True, she did say “spending a day in San Antonio one way”, but I assume that they will be traveling straight thru in the other direction. Thus the recommendation for booking #422 or #421.


Exactly. We'll travel from Los Angeles to San Antonio, spend at least one night, maybe two, then continue on to Dallas. Two nights there, and then straight through back to LA. So coming back, we won't have to move to any different car or get off the train during the layover in San Antonio?


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

mitako said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > True, she did say “spending a day in San Antonio one way”, but I assume that they will be traveling straight thru in the other direction. Thus the recommendation for booking #422 or #421.
> ...


So long as you're booked on #421 the whole way through, you will not have to do anything during the San Antonio switch. If you're booked on #421 to #1, #21 to #421, #21 to #1 or anything like that, you'd have to change trains or cars. If it just shows it as #421 DAL-LAX, you're all set.


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## CAMISSY55 (Aug 6, 2018)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > To be clear, I'm not actually recommending Waffle House run Amtrak's dining airs, but I think that having an actual restaurant or restaurant chain take over the diners could work.
> ...


This! Not too mention that their menu's nutritional values would make the current dining car offerings look like health food. Customer service skills and attitudes would be also be worse. IMHO of course!


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

CAMISSY55 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


Just to clarify, I would not want Waffle House running Amtrak's dining cars. When we're on vacation down south we'll usually get lunch there, if primarily because we don't have it up here, but I would not want or recommend Waffle House as part of someone's daily diet.


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## the_traveler (Aug 6, 2018)

You said just that exact same thing in your post!








cpotisch said:


> Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would.


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## DevalDragon (Aug 7, 2018)

OBS said:


> WindyCityTexan said:
> 
> 
> > I've been seeing posts on social media that Dining Car staff on the Texas Eagle are getting termination notices, and starting this fall the TE is getting boxed meals. These reports are coming from passengers on board the TE, who are getting their info directly from the DC staff on board.
> ...


You do realize that some of them will be furloughed if there are not enough positions for all of the SA and SLAs right? I guess it's not technically being terminated, but they won't get a paycheck either.


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## OBS (Aug 7, 2018)

DevalDragon said:


> OBS said:
> 
> 
> > WindyCityTexan said:
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You do realize they can also bump (move) into TA positions, redi crew positions, as well as transfer to other crew bases around the country? Not to mention with the turnover rate in OBS as well as people transferring into other crafts (ie conductor or office or management positions) , most crew bases are always short of personnel....Very rarely are OBS personnel furloughed other than sometimes by their own choice.


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## cirdan (Aug 7, 2018)

Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats?

That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.


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## jis (Aug 7, 2018)

cirdan said:


> Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats?
> 
> That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.


That is not how Contemporary Dining has been implemented so far. What they do is convert the Dining Car to the Sleeper Lounge and serve food there or in rooms. It becomes out of bounds for Coach Passengers.

You can mingle all you want with fellow Sleeper Passengers in the Sleeper Lounge with no time restrictions on getting out of the car because it is closed etc. If you must mingle with Coach passengers, you have to go to the Sightseer Lounge on Superliner trains or the Amfleet II Lounge on single level trains.


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## OBS (Aug 7, 2018)

cirdan said:


> Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats?
> 
> That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.


Please remember all we have, at this point, are rumors.......


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## tonys96 (Aug 7, 2018)

Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 7, 2018)

tonys96 said:


> Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.


Hey Tony, how's things in the Metroplex?Long time no hear from.
As for inside info, Thirdrail17 does an excellent job of providing us with hints,teases and plans and disspelling rumours before they are announced by Amflacks.

The old saying that where there is Smoke there's Fire usually proves to be True!

As my namesake sings,"..the answer my Friend is Blowing in the Wind.."


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## jis (Aug 7, 2018)

tonys96 said:


> Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.


That would be "converting the Sunset Limited to Contemporary Dining. The Texas Eagle as an independent train is Chicago to San Antonio. There are two through cars conveyed on the Sunset Limited to Los Angeles.

But so far even the Texas Eagle thing is a scared Amtrak Staff propagated rumor, and we know how many actually come true and how many don't. So let us see how this one unfolds before jumping the gun and broadening the scope of rumors being fed.


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## cpotisch (Aug 7, 2018)

jis said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats?
> ...


You do bring up what is actually a slight benefit of implementing "fresh choices" on a Superliner train rather than a single-level. On single-levels, anyone who wants to "mingle" with coach passengers, now has to do so in the pretty dismal AmCan Lounge. And since most people are not going to want to spend much time chatting in that 85 foot trashcan, there probably won't be much mingling happening anymore. Meanwhile Superliners have the SSL, which most people already choose to spend their time in during the day. So on the TE, you'd still have ample opportunity to talk and mingle with coach passengers, even if you can't do it at meal time That said, considering the TE is 15 hours longer than the LSL, and serves more than twice as many meals, IMHO it's still by far the worse candidate for contemporary dining.


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## cpotisch (Aug 7, 2018)

tonys96 said:


> Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.


Amtrak shows it as Chicago to LA because they don't want to explain to rail novices how through cars work. The diner between SAS and LAX is from the Sunset, and even says so on the menus, so unless the SL gets the new system, you'll have full meal service west of San Antonio (and of course between SAS and NOL)


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## cpotisch (Aug 7, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> You said just that exact same thing in your post!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To clarify, we personally like to eat at Waffle House once or twice a year, and I feel like they theoretically could run the dining cars more efficiently than Amtrak. However that *does not mean I actually think that Waffle House should take over Amtrak dining*, considering how (un)healthy their food is, and their less than stellar health code performance.


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## tonys96 (Aug 7, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> tonys96 said:
> 
> 
> > Since Amtrak lists the Eagle as a potential trip from Chicago to LA. On its website, I wonder if the leg from S.A. to LA will be included in this? I know it begins in NOLA, but it seems like Amtrak can make a case for eliminating the diner pretty easily.
> ...


Hi Jim. Metroplex is still here!I did not run for reelection this year. 25 years serving the community is enough. And I have had 6 surgeries in a 12 month period, 4 of them spinal surgeries, so I was not really healthy enough to run. Of course, I am still involved in it, though.

We still want to do the CZ someday, but are concerned about this diner situation on LD routes.


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## the_traveler (Aug 7, 2018)

In post #13, you posted



cpotisch said:


> Since we don't have any up north, and we like waffles and hash browns, my dad and I are huge Waffle House fans. I'd be down with them "outsourcing" the dining cars to Waffle House. I imagine they can run a tighter ship than Amtrak would.


In post #51, you posted


cpotisch said:


> However that *does not mean I actually think that Waffle House should take over Amtrak dining*, considering how (un)healthy their food is, and their less than stellar health code perform.


So which is true?


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## cpotisch (Aug 7, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> In post #13, you posted
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The latter. Poor choice of words with that first one.


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## Rheavon (Aug 7, 2018)

Got off the 21 last night. It seems like one of the dining car staff was a bit new to everything and made me wonder if she was just temporarily on staff since maybe others had jobs lined up elsewhere? My SCA confirmed the "Contemporary Dining" options were coming to the Texas Eagle.


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## cpotisch (Aug 7, 2018)

Rheavon said:


> Got off the 21 last night. It seems like one of the dining car staff was a bit new to everything and made me wonder if she was just temporarily on staff since maybe others had jobs lined up elsewhere? My SCA confirmed the "Contemporary Dining" options were coming to the Texas Eagle.


Great. At this point I don't see any way that the TE keeps full meal service. Ride it while you can, folks!


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## DevalDragon (Aug 7, 2018)

OBS said:


> You do realize they can also bump (move) into TA positions, redi crew positions, as well as transfer to other crew bases around the country? Not to mention with the turnover rate in OBS as well as people transferring into other crafts (ie conductor or office or management positions) , most crew bases are always short of personnel....Very rarely are OBS personnel furloughed other than sometimes by their own choice.


We are already seeing NYC staff bumping people from Chicago. At some point they will run out of jobs at the rate Amtrak is eliminating positions. Times are different under Anderson and the rules of the game are changing.

Amtrak has been eliminating jobs through attrition for years. But that can only last so long...


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## MikeM (Aug 7, 2018)

The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.

Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.


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## me_little_me (Aug 7, 2018)

jebr said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


What would the union say about having non-union jobs where they were union jobs before? I think that might be a bigger issue. It's one thing to eliminate jobs (especially if it can be done through attrition or buyouts) and another if the jobs are outsourced. Private companies can do it but often run into buzz saws if unionized. For Amtrak to do it, that might be more of an issue.


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## jebr (Aug 7, 2018)

Oh, I'm sure the union would protest mightily if their jobs were replaced by non-union employees.

To me, it's also a false savings to reduce costs by simply paying workers less. It's one thing if, as people leave or move to different positions, those positions simply aren't refilled. It's quite another to expect people to take a pay cut just to save the company money. As far as I'm aware, dining car attendants are paid a decent, living wage, but they're not getting rich off of it. Any major cut would essentially expect them to work for less money than what they need to live comfortably, and that's a change that I'd protest mightily. Dining car service isn't worth saving if it means the employees are paid a sub-living wage.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

MikeM said:


> The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.
> 
> Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.


I don't think that storing them in the dining car for four days is going to be the main concern. We don't know how far in advance the meals are prepped anyway, and I don't think it makes much difference for them to be stored in a dining car fridge or a commissary fridge.


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## ehbowen (Aug 8, 2018)

"This is your _Texas Eagle_ dining car steward. For your lunch today as we approach Chicago, your choices are the delicious peanut butter crackers or the ever-popular Dinty Moore beef stew!"


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## TinCan782 (Aug 8, 2018)

MikeM said:


> The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.
> 
> Main hope now is that Anderson alienates enough people that his tenure is short, and someone else competent joins the company. But the burn of institutional knowledge with all the buyouts, retirements, and such has to be hobbling the company at this point where any recovery from this fiasco is concerned.


Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip.

At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> "This is your _Texas Eagle_ dining car steward. For your lunch today as we approach Chicago, your choices are the delicious peanut butter crackers or the ever-popular Dinty Moore beef stew!"


Served over rice on a plastic plate with disposable napkins and silverware!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 8, 2018)

OBS said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > Would this mean that the dining car itself is being eliminated from the consist and that meals will be served in people's bedrooms or at their seats? That would be rather regrettable, as I find the whole communal dining thing and getting to mingle with your fellow passengers has always been one of the highlights of LD trains on matrak.
> ...


We have several people relaying similar reports _and_ a history of Amtrak following through on such threats. We _also_ have some public relations marketing spin waxing poetic about how everyone loves the new changes. From Amtrak's perspective the new contemporary dining benefits include fewer staff, smaller selections, less prep-work, cheaper costs, and lots of happy customers. What possible reason would Amtrak have for _not_ putting the new meals on the TE? The writing is on the wall whether you choose to read it or not.



FrensicPic said:


> Isn't that how it is now done with the current menu? Chicago loads the provisions/food for the entire round trip. At the moment, I'm waiting to see what actually does or, does not happen. Haven't read anything other than "an employee who heard it from someone else told me".


Sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what happens is the best way to ensure you have zero say in the matter. Welcome to your new contemporary dining.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 8, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> OBS said:
> 
> 
> > cirdan said:
> ...


In early June *I indeed voiced my concerns*, via U.S. Mail, to my three elected representatives in Washington regarding the contemporary dining. A month ago I did the same regarding the Southwest Chief.


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## the_traveler (Aug 8, 2018)

I know they do not have Dining cars (only cafes) but that is how it is done on the Adirondack and Maple Leaf. All food and drinks are loaded in NYC for BOTH directions.

To make it more confusing, the ML is technically a VIA train while in Canada. While Amtrak has an exclusive contact with Pepsi, VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke! So both are loaded for both ways, Pepsi in NYC and Coke in Toronto. But you can not get a Coke while the train is in NYS (since it is an Amtrak train), nor can you get a Pepsi while the train is in Ontario (since it a VIA train)!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 8, 2018)

FrensicPic said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > FrensicPic said:
> ...


Well here on AU you're currently voicing your _lack_ of concern. Sorry for the confusion but you seem to be sending two different messages. Keep in mind that not all rumors are created equally and that these particular rumors fit a profile that is backed by precedent. So far as I am aware Anderson's Amtrak has made one meaningful change since the original introduction of contemporary meals. They replaced one of the cold options with a reheat option. Everything else has remained roughly the same and the "nothing to see here" crowd has little more than bureaucratic inertia on their side. Put yourself in Anderson's shoes and then ask yourself why you would _not_ roll out boxed lunches to the rest of the fleet.


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## railiner (Aug 8, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> I know they do not have Dining cars (only cafes) but that is how it is done on the Adirondack and Maple Leaf. All food and drinks are loaded in NYC for BOTH directions.
> 
> To make it more confusing, the ML is technically a VIA train while in Canada. While Amtrak has an exclusive contact with Pepsi, VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke! So both are loaded for both ways, Pepsi in NYC and Coke in Toronto. But you can not get a Coke while the train is in NYS (since it is an Amtrak train), nor can you get a Pepsi while the train is in Ontario (since it a VIA train)!


The last time I rode the Maple Leaf, many years ago, when it had just started running, the practice was for the Amtrak attendant to lock up his stock upon reaching NFL. The Via attendant then boarded at NFS, with a much smaller stock, just enough for the short hop to Toronto.

Are you saying the VIA Rail stock remains on board now locked up for the round trip to NY?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 8, 2018)

I haven't ridden the Maple Leaf in 2 years, but during my many trips( in BC) between NY and Canada on this Train, the VIA and Amtrak attendants changed out all stock @ the Niagara Falls ON VIA Staion.

Of course they've changed the Canadian Customs and Immigration procedures, you now get OFF the Train and go inside the Station with your stuff, whereas before you were checked on the Train.

I doubt if the Canadian stuff goes all the way to NYP and that the American stuff goes to Toronto since storage space isnt that big in the Split Cafe/BC Car.

One note of interest about paying for stuff in the Cafe, Canada did away with the Penny so prices,are rounded off ( including the GST) but they will take Loonies($1) and Toonies ($2)Coins in Canada, while Amtrak only accepts Canadian Bills($5 and up),no Coins.

Hopefully someone with current info can provide this if it's Changed!!


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## TinCan782 (Aug 8, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> FrensicPic said:
> 
> 
> > Devil's Advocate said:
> ...


On this particular TE topic, my "sitting on the sidelines" is strictly in regards to waiting to hear something concrete. I'm not going to jump on something I read, here or on Facebook or, on other sites, based on hearsay.

I agree with you that replacing "one of the cold options with a reheat option" was a good move and probably a result of initial comments about the meal choices. I figure the contemporary dining is not going away but will continue to be refined. Refined to the point of going back to before? I wouldn't expect it to. I do see your point regarding being in Anderson's shoes. As has been voiced here before, I too believe its a business decision for him. Whether I/we agree or not, he is making these decisions.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Aug 8, 2018)

Anderson will be gone soon. I give him 3-6 months, thats 3-6 months too long.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Anderson will be gone soon. I give him 3-6 months, thats 3-6 months too long.


What makes you say that? Just because he's unpopular with some folks doesn't mean they're going to kick him out. From the board's standpoint, so long as he's following federal statutes and mandates, and is trying to help Amtrak achieve it's core competency, they don't have cause or reason to kick him out.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 8, 2018)

Correct, all of his ideas are good business decisions, they just might not be decisions that we want.


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## the_traveler (Aug 8, 2018)

As much as I do not like some of the changes being made, I have to agree. Not all changes that save money are liked by everyone all the time.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Correct, all of his ideas are good business decisions, they just might not be decisions that we want.


I don't even know if they are good business decisions in the long run. IMO, a lot of these changes cut cost in the meantime but will ultimately alienate Amtrak's best customers in the long run. Cutting costs and expenses doesn't necessarily equate to a thriving business, and all Amtrak is supposed to do anyway is to cover as much of its costs as possible while providing adequate rail service to the people of the United States.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 8, 2018)

Not necessarily sitting on the sidelines, but I do find it interesting that all the Texas Eagle news is supposedly from Amtrak employees on board the Texas Eagle. Until there is official announcement with sufficient lead time as was the case with the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited, I have to consider the Texas Eagle conversion to "contemporary dining" to rumors. If changes are made to the Texas Eagle(and I'm not suggesting such), I expect it to be more a conversion from full diner to City of New Orleans dining without a chef style.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> If changes are made to the Texas Eagle(and I'm not suggesting such), I expect it to be more a conversion from full diner to City of New Orleans dining without a chef style.


They did that before when they first put the CCC on it. It was a disaster and they quickly realized that it didn't make sense for that route.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 8, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Correct, all of his ideas are good business decisions, they just might not be decisions that we want.
> ...


While I agree, the same can be said for most corporations in America that continue to cut costs and lower quality. Walt Disney Parks and Apple both come to mind as examples.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > crescent-zephyr said:
> ...


What makes you say that Apple is cutting costs _or _lowing quality?


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## IndyLions (Aug 8, 2018)

If Amtrak were indeed being run as “poorly” as Apple we’d be in a lot better shape as Railfans. They market their products as being worth the extra cost and have convinced hundreds of millions of customers that they are right...


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## MikeM (Aug 8, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> MikeM said:
> 
> 
> > The thing that concerns me about the "contemporary dining" on the Eagle is that all the provisioning of the Eagle diner happens in Chicago. So... if you're on the northbound train to Chicago eating breakfast or lunch, your meal has done a round trip over four days on the train. Not real confident salads and sandwiches will hold that great for four days in a railcar. If they provisioned the car in San Antonio before the return, that'd be one thing, but this way not only will your meal have more rail miles than you do, but either Amtrak overprovisions the train, or everyone gets to eat the unpopular meals by day 4.
> ...


The difference now is that the meals loaded in the dining car are typically are not that perishable, other than salads. Many items are traypacked in sealed containers in bulk, if not frozen. Not a lot of fruit in the diner vs. the "fresh" option.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 8, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


Apple Mac sales were down 13%, meanwhile there stocks are at an all time high. The new keyboards have known issues that apple is not addressing, they just keep replacing them if the computer is under warranty.

It's subjective... Just like the way Anderson is running things.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 8, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > crescent-zephyr said:
> ...


I generally tend to enjoy Apple products but I honestly have no idea what market the Mac line is chasing at this point. I wanted more storage, a larger battery, and more physical connectivity on my "professional" laptop but instead they gave us an emote touch bar. I guess there aren't as many teen girls buying multi-thousand dollar laptops as Apple originally envisioned.


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## cpotisch (Aug 8, 2018)

Right now I'm posting from my 13" touch bar MacBrook Pro. It's not for everyone, but I love it. The new keyboards are admittedly dumb, but that's not from cost cutting, so much as a bad design stemming from how thin they chose to make it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 8, 2018)

I'm still an apple fan, but im looking for a 2015 model to be my "upgrade" rather than a 2018. They totally missed the mark on the "Pro" line.

While it may or may not be a cost cutting measure (back in the day the iBook and PowerBook had totally different keyboards and body designs... Not sure if making the MacBook and pro line so similar saves on parts, or it's more of a branding thing...) it seems they have lost touch with what some of their should be core market wants.

And that's where it comes back to Amtrak.... Anderson is making decisions the way a corporate ceo does. And that has never really been done before at amtrak has it?

Regardless of what the customers may want... If the current food service is losing money, common business sense says that needs to change. If the government wants Amtrak to be a tourist train to impress international visitors like the Canadian is, then fine, they can pay for that the way the Canadian government does and get that. But congress wants Amtrak to be a legit transportation system that doesn't need more than the basics.


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## kdeschner (Aug 14, 2018)

I Rode on #21 last Night, and had a wonderful dinner! The LSA said the contemporary dining is a close reality on the eagle, and is being talked about happening on all routes by the end of the next 18 months. She was a very seasoned LSA, and definitely seemed like she knew what she was talking about... just an FYI on what I heard!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 14, 2018)

"Say it aint so Joe!"


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## kdeschner (Aug 14, 2018)

I hate to say it... but on the TE, the CCC design in the diner just hurts the crew when there is a SSL, because 1/2 the car is dead weight, and they are WAY understaffed. Which I guess leads me to this question. If on the TE, I saw a LOT of coach Pax eating in the Full Service Diner, and even more just eating food they brought in their bags at their seats. This will sound incredibly stupid, but why could the SA of the lounge car not help in the dining car during peak meal periods... say 5:30-7:00, and then reopen once the train departs St. Louis? (And do the same for every meal.) THIS IS NOT IDEAL... I understand this, (it shouldn’t ever get to this. But theoretically couldn’t this be one less staff member needed, and you could still have somewhat of a Full Dining Service. I don’t see why minus a slight inconvenience from 5:30-7 if budget cuts had to happen.. that this wouldn’t work. If this is one employee a crew at $50k, and 20 are cut... that’s a savings of 1,000,000 30 would be 1,500,000 and 40 be 2,000,000. Just want opinions!


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## dogbert617 (Aug 15, 2018)

Rheavon said:


> Got off the 21 last night. It seems like one of the dining car staff was a bit new to everything and made me wonder if she was just temporarily on staff since maybe others had jobs lined up elsewhere? My SCA confirmed the "Contemporary Dining" options were coming to the Texas Eagle.


Do you remember if the SCA had heard of a possible start date, for the downgraded 'contemporary'(my arse) food service on the Texas Eagle? That's very sad to hear. Somewhere else(don't remember which thread, it was on a thread on this message board somewhere), I heard a rumor that this was supposedly also going to happen later this year to the Southwest Chief.


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## tommylicious (Aug 15, 2018)

I think it's a done deal to go systemwide personally. Sadly I've cancelled all LD Amtrak rail travel plans as a result.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 15, 2018)

When first started this RUMOR stated the conversion to boxed meals would be September. That's just 15 days away and no official announcement has been made. Even if from on board crew I still consider this as a rumor especially if they are rumoring that all long distance trains will convert in next 18 months. I am not planning my Amtrak travels based on rumors.


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## NativeSon5859 (Aug 15, 2018)

It would be sad to see this go systemwide from a nostalgia perspective...heaven knows I’ve had a lot of memorable evenings spent in the Diner...but as long as they have a mandate to break even (?) on F&B by 2020, I see it as a natural progression.

Though it wouldn’t cause me to cancel future trips, I hope the boxed meals continue to be refined so that there’s at least another breakfast option and (hopefully) one more hot option for lunch/dinner.


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## VT Hokie (Aug 15, 2018)

Any chance of (a) getting Anderson out before further damage is done or (b) restoring proper meal service after his reign of terror ends?


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## jis (Aug 15, 2018)

VT Hokie said:


> Any chance of (a) getting Anderson out before further damage is done or (b) restoring proper meal service after his reign of terror ends?


No, Maybe.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 15, 2018)

VT Hokie said:


> Any chance of (a) getting Anderson out before further damage is done or (b) restoring proper meal service after his reign of terror ends?


The meal service has gone up and down for the entire life of Amtrak. When I was like 8 years old I remember my dad being disappointed that the Texas Eagle had switched from a diner to a diner / lounge... I barely remember it was set up like a cafeteria where they spooned the mashed potatoes and such out of the steam table and onto the plate in front of you. Well we all know that didn't last... the CCC cars themselves were designed to be a new type of "Diner & Lounge" - they were officially announced, and how long did that last? (I'm talking about the CCC as a service, not the physical cars).

So yes... the service can come back. What we have to do is make sure there are still Long Distance trains left for it to return to.


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## tonijustine (Aug 15, 2018)

The mandate must be addressed first. If Anderson. Is replaced it will just be a different person operating under the same mandate. This starts with Congress.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 15, 2018)

It depends on the person. I never thought I would miss Hunter Harrison, but I think someone with that type of tough personality, if they were on the side of doing things right, would be able to handle things, including telling Congress to get rid of their stupid mandate. Of course, I suppose we've had that already in David Gunn--someone who did the right thing and didn't care about watching his back--and they simply fired him and then named an Amtrak engine after him.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 15, 2018)

tonijustine said:


> The mandate must be addressed first. If Anderson. Is replaced it will just be a different person operating under the same mandate. This starts with Congress.


Yes and no. The mandate isn't unreasonable. Amtrak has been losing alot of money on providing an extremely average meal service to only a percentage of it's long distance customers.

There are lots of options out there. The box meal option is, in my opinion, better than the Silver Star option or the City of New Orleans option (I've ridden both the Star and the City since they lost full diners, I have not yet ridden with the new box meals but based on photos and reviews, it sounds like the quality is good.)

I continue to believe that keeping the chef, eliminating the servers and using the coach and sleeper attendants for food service could be the way to go. Even if it means operating one train with only 1 LSA. If airlines can trust flight attendants to handle the sales of food and drinks, then Amtrak should be able to do the same.


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## PVD (Aug 15, 2018)

I ate the boxed meals in version 1 (no short ribs, 2 granola bar in breakfast) The food itself was ok, I know that folks like to grouse about the nutritional balance being off, and while that's true, it isn't any worse than typical American food service establishments. Small changes and a few additional choices or mix and match capabilities would probably satisfy a much wider audience. example: go to a plain muffin, offer a choice of jellies/jams/spreads and you eliminate the whole only blueberry? deal a few extra desert choices including low or no sugar, and the ability to swap the sides in the lunch/dinner offerings and you cover many more of the shortcomings.Some kind of bkfst sandwich would be a big plus, even though it would give people another too much of (pick anything) to complain about. Pre order selections and choices would be huge.


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## cpotisch (Aug 15, 2018)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> When first started this RUMOR stated the conversion to boxed meals would be September. That's just 15 days away and no official announcement has been made. Even if from on board crew I still consider this as a rumor especially if they are rumoring that all long distance trains will convert in next 18 months. I am not planning my Amtrak travels based on rumors.


Since when has Amtrak shown that they will consistently give heads ups about changes and cuts significantly before they take place. They announced that the LSL and CL were getting boxed meals about a month and a half before it took place, and even that was relatively far in advance by their standards. Remember, no one said that it was going to happen at the very start of September. It could start at the end of September, which would also be about a month and a half's notice. So I disagree with the sentiment that we won't be getting contemporary dining on the Eagle anytime soon, since Amtrak has a history of giving short notice about this kind of stuff, and the onboard staff seems to be consistently convinced that it's coming soon anyway.


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## JoeBas (Aug 15, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > When first started this RUMOR stated the conversion to boxed meals would be September. That's just 15 days away and no official announcement has been made. Even if from on board crew I still consider this as a rumor especially if they are rumoring that all long distance trains will convert in next 18 months. I am not planning my Amtrak travels based on rumors.
> ...


This. Not making decisions based on rumors is one thing. Not making decisions due to willful disregard of recent history and application of common sense is another.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Aug 15, 2018)

Im not even sure the mandate makes a difference at this point. Apparently Anderson is the first CEO to take it seriously for his own motives. There are currently no Micas left causing a raucous. I think they should try to be efficient maybe even go so far as pre plated meals like Acela but have them seved in the dining car like the Ocean does. That would more then appease the current and soon to be seated congress.

For those of you saying its in the law its a mandate. The senate voted 94-3 to support the SWC, the House more then likely will as well. If rumors and that memo are true Anderson is going to try to thumb his nose at the legislation and destroy the SWC regardless going against congressional wishes.

Talking to an RPA official today the memo is true unfortunately.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 16, 2018)

Only time will tell about the conversion to "contemporary" meal service. Personally, I rode the Capitol Limited the second week of the new service and enjoyed both my dinner meal and breakfast. Interestingly, I use to skip the breakfast meal and eat breakfast in Chicago. I have eaten at Lou Mitchell's and I eaten at McDonald's and was satisfied with both. I am riding the Southwest Chief and the California Zephyr late October to early November and the dinner menu and style were not a basis for choosing to ride. In fact, since both use the National Menu, I find that I get tired of the non changing menu's and simply not hungry making my dinner selection difficult. I'm not a seafood eater and get tired of steak or chicken at every dinner. But I love traveling by train in a roomette and will continue to do so no matter what happens to the dining service. Oh, and I have to fly from Nashville to get to Amtrak since we have not had service since early 1980's.


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## Asher (Aug 19, 2018)

Long distance travel with out decent meals is not very appealing to me.


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## cpotisch (Aug 19, 2018)

Here's the thing: For people without dietary restrictions (who are traveling in sleepers), the new menu and system seems fine. Quality seems decent, and while you don't get full table service and can't chat with as many passengers, you still get to have a meal in the diner. The real issues are for people who keep kosher, have diabetes, won't eat meat, etc.

As a pescatarian (I eat fish but no land animals), I have *one option* at every meal - for lunch and dinner I have to have the cold vegan hummus wrap (not even remote substitute for a hot veggie burger with swiss cheese), a quinoa edamame salad (I just don't want that), some kettle chips (fine), and a "vegan dessert bar" (I don't quite know what that means, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't even compare to the cheesecake that comes with the other options). Since everything is pre-packaged in each box, you have no choice of sides, dessert, and toppings, and that's really not ideal when you only have one option in the first place. So until they change up the menu, and especially on a pretty long ride like the TE, I just can't do it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 19, 2018)

I agree. For me, there is no 1 meal that I can eat. I currently can't have gluten and I rarely ever eat red meat. If I could get the chicken salad, with the potato salad from the steak salad dinner and a gluten free dessert I would be satisfied for a meal or 2. There needs to be some room to customize your meal.


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## lordsigma (Aug 19, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Here's the thing: For people without dietary restrictions (who are traveling in sleepers), the new menu and system seems fine. Quality seems decent, and while you don't get full table service and can't chat with as many passengers, you still get to have a meal in the diner. The real issues are for people who keep kosher, have diabetes, won't eat meat, etc.
> 
> As a pescatarian (I eat fish but no land animals), I have *one option* at every meal - for lunch and dinner I have to have the cold vegan hummus wrap (not even remote substitute for a hot veggie burger with swiss cheese), a quinoa edamame salad (I just don't want that), some kettle chips (fine), and a "vegan dessert bar" (I don't quite know what that means, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't even compare to the cheesecake that comes with the other options). Since everything is pre-packaged in each box, you have no choice of sides, dessert, and toppings, and that's really not ideal when you only have one option in the first place. So until they change up the menu, and especially on a pretty long ride like the TE, I just can't do it.


While my preference would be full diner service remaining intact on these longer trains, an enhanced version of this new program could work on the longer trains. But I think these trains are too long with too many meal periods for the present setup with 3 boxed options on the Lake Shore and Capitol to work on the longer trains. I think there needs to be a wider variety of boxed or pre-prepared options for it to be viable on these longer trains with more than one hot option and I think some type of hot option for breakfast needs to be considered. Perhaps passenger pre-selection of meals before boarding is the answer and maybe that would make a larger variety of options more feasible. Here's an easy suggestion: a box with an almost done cheeseburger of a decent quality that just has to be heated and finished slightly on the grill. Finishing off a couple burgers on the grill prior to the meal time should be within the abilities of the LSA.. Not a particularly healthy option but a simple option and something a large amount of people would go for that would be superior to the microwave café car burgers. I also think there's four trains Amtrak should exclude from the "contemporary fresh" program no matter what and leave with table service diners at least during their peak seasons - the California Zephyr, and the Empire Builder, because they are the true "experiential" cross country routes, as well as the Silver Meteor and the Auto Train because northeast to Florida is probably the biggest Amtrak overnight market.


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## Triley (Aug 20, 2018)

lordsigma said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the thing: For people without dietary restrictions (who are traveling in sleepers), the new menu and system seems fine. Quality seems decent, and while you don't get full table service and can't chat with as many passengers, you still get to have a meal in the diner. The real issues are for people who keep kosher, have diabetes, won't eat meat, etc.
> ...


If the grill is touched, pretty sure a chef will be needed. Either way, one person can not take orders, cook the food, serve it, do the necessary accounting, clean up, and repeat the process, and still maintain reasonable wait times.
The only thing I will agree on that is if this unfortunate "experiment" continues, hopefully they will leave certain trains out of it, for the reasons you said.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 20, 2018)

It sounds like in day to day practice the LSA is expected to handle everything... where the expectation was that the sleeping car attendants would take care of the majority of the serving.

Grill or no grill... it's clear that Amtrak management believes that the serving and preparing of warm meals is within the grasp of 1 LSA in addition to all of the other jobs. (I'm referring to the fact that they have already added 1 hot meal, and it's assumed they will add more options at some point?).


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## jis (Aug 20, 2018)

Serving that one heated meal is no different from serving warmed burgers and pizza in the Cafe, and that appears to work fine using a single LSA. The SCA’s role is to deliver the meals, and that is exactly what they did on the Cap the time I was on it.


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## cpotisch (Aug 20, 2018)

At this point I'm really gunning for them to add the veggie burger as a hot option (I think that's doable), offer a voucher system to get food from the cafe car instead of a boxed meal from the sleeper lounge (maybe it could include an entree, "side", and some sort of dessert), or just a choice of dessert for the boxed meals. If any of those happened, I would likely be able to make it work.


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## cpotisch (Aug 20, 2018)

lordsigma said:


> I also think there's four trains Amtrak should exclude from the "contemporary fresh" program no matter what and leave with table service diners at least during their peak seasons - the California Zephyr, and the Empire Builder, because they are the true "experiential" cross country routes, as well as the Silver Meteor and the Auto Train because northeast to Florida is probably the biggest Amtrak overnight market.


I agree with almost everything you said here, but I feel like the Silver Meteor is (as much as it pains me to say this), one of the better candidates for "fresh choices". It's a single night train that only serves three or four meals, and there is sufficient enough demand NY-FL that they could probably still fill the train up, even with cold meals. I think that the Starlight is one of the best candidates to keep meal service, since it's a flagship route with some of the best scenery, and it serves three different major transit hubs with connections to other LD trains.


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## JRR (Aug 20, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> lordsigma said:
> 
> 
> > I also think there's four trains Amtrak should exclude from the "contemporary fresh" program no matter what and leave with table service diners at least during their peak seasons - the California Zephyr, and the Empire Builder, because they are the true "experiential" cross country routes, as well as the Silver Meteor and the Auto Train because northeast to Florida is probably the biggest Amtrak overnight market.
> ...


Don’t mess with our Meteor!!!!

Say it ain’t so, Joe!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 20, 2018)

The Cardinal has one person serving as LSA,Waitperson,Chef,Busperson and Dish washer in the Diner part of the DinerLite/Lounge Car.

But Acela FC has 2 attendants ( but not in the LSA position since no Money changes hands,except for Tips), so why not go with such a set up on the LD Trains so Acela type meals with pre-selection can be the norm.( I know, the plan is to cut Labor costs!)

Hopefully the Unions will become involved before there are no employees left on the Trains except for a Conductor and Engineer!)


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## cpotisch (Aug 20, 2018)

JRR said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > lordsigma said:
> ...


Hey, the Meteor is my home train. I take it to and from Delray Beach more than I take any other Amtrak train, including the Regionals. So I would hate for it to get the contemporary treatment. But if you strictly look at trip length and demand for the route that likely will still be there, even with boxed meals, it is one of the less bad candidates. I would ardently opposite it, but it could make some sense for Amtrak. I hope any of what I just said makes sense.


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## jis (Aug 20, 2018)

If the experiment is deemed successful it will get deployed in all LD trains. All this business about selective deployment is just wishful thinking beyond just staging of deployment IMHO.


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## JRR (Aug 20, 2018)

If the criteria is an overnight train to institute “Contemporary Dining”, then just cut all food service other than a cafe car, and we in sleeper will just pack our own food and when you do that cut the ticket price appropriately.


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## cpotisch (Aug 20, 2018)

jis said:


> If the experiment is deemed successful it will get deployed in all LD trains. All this business about selective deployment is just wishful thinking beyond just staging of deployment IMHO.


True, but there is the order in which it will be deployed. Some routes will almost certainly get "fresh choices" before others. The flagship routes with the best scenery, equipment, and the longest duration will probably get the changes a lot later than an often neglected single-night route like the Cardinal, TE, or CONO.


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## cpotisch (Aug 20, 2018)

JRR said:


> and when you do that cut the ticket price appropriately.


I wish.


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## allanorn (Aug 20, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I agree. For me, there is no 1 meal that I can eat. I currently can't have gluten and I rarely ever eat red meat. If I could get the chicken salad, with the potato salad from the steak salad dinner and a gluten free dessert I would be satisfied for a meal or 2. There needs to be some room to customize your meal.


I'm full-blown Celiac and I was able to find enough food to eat for a couple of days on the train. But it's difficult for me to even think about another cross-country or multi-day train trip if I don't have a good feeling of what's there to eat.

I was hoping there would be some other dietary options available once they switched to box meals, but it doesn't sound like that is a possibility until much later, if ever.


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## OBS (Aug 20, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> The Cardinal has one person serving as LSA,Waitperson,Chef,Busperson and Dish washer in the Diner part of the DinerLite/Lounge Car.
> 
> But Acela FC has 2 attendants ( but not in the LSA position since no Money changes hands,except for Tips), so why not go with such a set up on the LD Trains so Acela type meals with pre-selection can be the norm.( I know, the plan is to cut Labor costs!)
> 
> Hopefully the Unions will become involved before there are no employees left on the Trains except for a Conductor and Engineer!)


Minor correction....The Acela FC attendants are LSA's.....


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## lordsigma (Aug 21, 2018)

jis said:


> If the experiment is deemed successful it will get deployed in all LD trains. All this business about selective deployment is just wishful thinking beyond just staging of deployment IMHO.


Im sure that is exactly how it will go down. But what may be successful for one train may not be successful for others. There’s a big difference between the Lake Shore Limited and the Empire Builder. If boxed meals is really the long term intention for all LD trains the program needs to be scaled up with a wider menu with enough hot options for everyone and so that you aren’t eating the same thing for 4 meals on the longer trains before this program is deployed on the longer trains. They’d be better off continuing to experiment with the two trains that already have it and “perfect it” before expanding it to other trains.
Of course given that the current administration appears to dispise the LD trains in general there’s probably not much interest in perfecting it.


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## Steve4031 (Aug 22, 2018)

Documented consumption of chillaquas at lunch on 6.


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## ParanoidAndroid (Aug 22, 2018)

Steve4031 said:


> IMG_1534976088.799420.jpg
> 
> Documented consumption of chillaquas at lunch on 6.


Chilaquiles?


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## ohle (Aug 22, 2018)

ParanoidAndroid said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> > IMG_1534976088.799420.jpg
> ...


Yes, it's a very good Mexican dish, served at lunch.

I had it for lunch on the Eagle and Calif. Zephyr.

Trouble is, on my recent ride on the Starlight, NB from LAUPT, they were "out" of it (as well as the mussels dish listed on the menu) for lunch, the first meal out of LAUPT.

The attendant told us it was a "management decision" not to stock the dish.


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## ohle (Aug 22, 2018)




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## dclassical (Aug 25, 2018)

I was on Amtrak 21 yesterday and had breakfast, lunch and dinner. The desserts listed were not all available because of new menus coming up soon and the LSA and SA said that there was no contemporary dinner planned for the Texas Eagle. And all the food listed was available.

Desserts were flourless chocolate cake (dense, good), a cheesecake (quite good) and a parfait (did not try it).

I got to chat a little with the LSA and SA (who is retiring after 30+ years with the company) and the mood was good.

I want to take this opportunity to thank members of this forum who helped me (patiently) will my questions and concerns last year when I took my first trip on the Texas Eagle. My first experience was not great due to a lazy sleeper car attendant who just did not want to be bothered. Since then I have taken 5 trips, all wonderful, including yesterday where my sleeping car attendant told me that I could still have breakfast even though the dining car was officially closed.

Looking forward to my next trips!


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## JayPea (Aug 25, 2018)

I had a very similar experience on 22 on Monday. Good mood and good food. BTW, you missed out on not trying the parfait!! It was very good!!


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## dclassical (Aug 25, 2018)

I almost did, but it is hard for me to pass up cheesecake. There is always next month


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 25, 2018)

Excellent News indeed that Boxed AMchow isnt coming to the Eagle soon!


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## DevalDragon (Aug 26, 2018)

dclassical said:


> I was on Amtrak 21 yesterday and had breakfast, lunch and dinner. The desserts listed were not all available because of new menus coming up soon and the LSA and SA said that there was no contemporary dinner planned for the Texas Eagle. And all the food listed was available.
> 
> Desserts were flourless chocolate cake (dense, good), a cheesecake (quite good) and a parfait (did not try it).
> 
> ...


It's quite interesting that your dining car staff and the one I had last month have a completely different outlook on this. I guess time will tell.

I did send Amtrak a letter asking for an explanation. I will post their response if/when I get it.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 26, 2018)

DevalDragon said:


> dclassical said:
> 
> 
> > I was on Amtrak 21 yesterday and had breakfast, lunch and dinner. The desserts listed were not all available because of new menus coming up soon and the LSA and SA said that there was no contemporary dinner planned for the Texas Eagle. And all the food listed was available.
> ...


Yes, simply different interpretation of the same thing. The new menu (which is an annual occurrence) became the "Fresh and Contemporary" menu. Recall the "telephone game"? Even a month ago I was hearing from an Amtrak employee I know that the contemporary menu on the TE was rumor. We will see next month.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 26, 2018)

" The new menu (which is an annual occurrence)"
Having ridden several LD trains each year for several years, I honestly believe the current National Menu has been on the trains much more than a year and possibly two years. When the last change was made we went from Land and Sea being shrimp to seafood cake and the mussels and chilaquiles were added to lunch menu. I am ready for a change hopefully before my Chief and Zephyr trips October - November this year.


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## DevalDragon (Aug 26, 2018)

New menus used to come out twice a year. The current menu has been in use since September of 2017.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2018)

Just like the PDF timetables, the printed menus seem to have devolved into a vague guidance of what one might get. What one actually gets often is a different matter, since substitutions of many items are not that unusual these days.


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## NativeSon5859 (Aug 27, 2018)

Just nearing CHI on 6 and everything on the menu was available except for one of the desserts, IIRC.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 27, 2018)

DevalDragon said:


> New menus used to come out twice a year. The current menu has been in use since September of 2017.


I don't want to be augmentative, but I am pretty convinced I ordered off the current menu in April 2017 as I rode the Sunset Limited, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder and Capitol Limited since I had the Chilliquitos while on that trip and I remember the mussells(which I don't eat) were also on the menu and they had removed the shrimp from the Land and Sea item.


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## ehbowen (Aug 27, 2018)

Well, I rode the _Texas Eagle_ with a friend in May 2017 and the "Land & Sea" still was steak & shrimp. I have pictures to prove it:

/monthly_05_2017/post-4967-14956802345046.jpg


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## jis (Aug 27, 2018)

In my last extended trip last month I had substitutions for the Mussels twice, for the Salmon once and the Land and Sea was simply not available with no substitution twice and once it had shrimp instead of the fish cake (or was it the other way round?). I really had no problem with the substitutions. There were numerous occasions when their were dessert subs too, again no problem at my end. But as I said the menu gives a good guideline but if you are hell bent on one specific item in the menu, you may be disappointed.


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## DevalDragon (Aug 27, 2018)

See for yourself:

https://www.amtrak.com/meal-choices-and-menus-at-a-glance

Auto Train - 7/17

California Zephyr - 9/17

Capitol Limited - 5/18 (Contemporary Dining)

Cardinal - 10/17

City of New Orleans - 10/17
Coast Starlight - 9/17

Crescent - 9/17

Empire Builder - 9/17

Lake Short Limited - 5/18 (Contemporary Dining)

Silver Meteor - 9/16 (yikes!)

Southwest Chief - 9/17

Sunset Limited - 9/17

Texas Eagle 9/17


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> DevalDragon said:
> 
> 
> > New menus used to come out twice a year. The current menu has been in use since September of 2017.
> ...


Just because you had certain items currently on the menu in April last year doesn't mean that the menu has not changed since then. I am telling you that the Butternut Squash Risotto and the Sweet Potato Gnocchi were both added in the fall of last year. I took the Meteor round-trip with my mom and my grandfather to Delray Beach at the end of June last year, and those options were not available. It literally says that it's from September 2017 in the link and I think on the menu.


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## cpotisch (Aug 27, 2018)

DevalDragon said:


> Silver Meteor - 9/16 (yikes!)


The Meteor's menu actually was updated in 2017, they just didn't update the website.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Aug 29, 2018)

No problem. No matter when the Butternut Squash Risotto and the Sweet Potato Gnocchi were added, I have still not been offered those dishes on the trains I traveled on in February and June this calendar year. It could be the Squash was offered and ignored since I am not a big squash fan. I do like sweet potatoes and would have tried that since I get tired of having to order off the same menu all the time since I usually travel on two to four LD trains each time I travel since I have to fly from my non served city Nashville to ride the train.


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## cpotisch (Aug 29, 2018)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> No problem. No matter when the Butternut Squash Risotto and the Sweet Potato Gnocchi were added, I have still not been offered those dishes on the trains I traveled on in February and June this calendar year. It could be the Squash was offered and ignored since I am not a big squash fan. I do like sweet potatoes and would have tried that since I get tired of having to order off the same menu all the time since I usually travel on two to four LD trains each time I travel since I have to fly from my non served city Nashville to ride the train.


It doesn't have actual pieces of squash or sweet potatoes in it. If memory serves, they're actually just in the sauce. I'm not a fan of squash either, but they've both been delicious every time I've had them.


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## NativeSon5859 (Aug 29, 2018)

Please bring contemporary dining to the CONO!

This was the hot breakfast sandwich with fruit on 59 yesterday. The fruit was literally two small orange slices and one (1!) strawberry which was cut up into small bites.

Lunch and dinner were marginally better (just deli sandwiches though a hot Asian noodle bowl was offered for lunch) though desserts now aren’t even plated, you get a choice of cookie or brownie which is just handed to you in its packaging.


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## lordsigma (Aug 29, 2018)

I think it’s possible if new menus are indeed coming there could be radical changes even for the trains keeping chefs and table service. Maybe Amtrak is going to go with a new commissary vendor or new approach and maybe coming changes made some of the crews mistakenly think LSL/CL dining was coming but in fact it’s something else. Could be they are rebranding all the LD menus as “fresh and contemporary dining” even those that are retaining full dining. I guess we shall see.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 29, 2018)

Wow... That's even worse than the breakfast I got on the chef-less City a year or so ago.


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## lordsigma (Aug 29, 2018)

lordsigma said:


> I think it’s possible if new menus are indeed coming there could be radical changes even for the trains keeping chefs and table service. Maybe Amtrak is going to go with a new commissary vendor or new approach and maybe coming changes made some of the crews mistakenly think LSL/CL dining was coming but in fact it’s something else. Could be they are rebranding all the LD menus as “fresh and contemporary dining” even those that are retaining full dining. I guess we shall see.


And it's certainly possible they could introduce yet another new dining concept to test out. Already have a bunch of different concepts running now between the silver starvation, the LSL/CL boxed approach, the cardinal/former LSL diner-lite approach, the CCC approach, the auto train diner which I guess is a step above CCC dining but below the full diner. Why not throw yet another one out there?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 29, 2018)

NativeSon5859 said:


> IMG_5095.jpg
> 
> Please bring contemporary dining to the CONO!
> 
> ...


Yuuuuum! NOT!!!


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## cpotisch (Aug 29, 2018)

lordsigma said:


> ...the cardinal/former LSL diner-lite approach, the CCC approach, the auto train diner which I guess is a step above CCC dining but below the full diner. Why not throw yet another one out there?


Firstly, the LSL's diner-lite setup was significantly better than the Cardinal. The LSL had the same number of staff as a standard diner, but has the more limited kitchen facilities of the Amfleet diner-lite. The Cardinal only has one LSA (and maybe one waiter?), as well as an even more limited menu. And the CCC has identical kitchen facilities and food as any other Superliner diner. Identical. The only difference is the upper-level layout.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 29, 2018)

The cars that say the words "Cross Country Cafe" on them are currently being uses as -

1- City of New Orleans - 1 Attendant (not LSA) serves a limited menu of pre-plated items.

2 - Capitol Limited - 1 LSA serves box meals and complimentary drinks as well as sells drinks.

3 - Texas Eagle - Operates as a standard dining car (does the Eagle staff the SSL car? I haven't been on it in many years).

The original plan for the CCC cars was actually quite good compared to our current situation. The car was designed to be the only food service car on shorter trains like the City and Texas Eagle. They dropped the salad and dinner roll from the menu, as well as the tablecloths. The idea was to make it more like a "fast casual" place and yes... the idea was that coach passengers could order from a chef-cooked menu from the cafe counter during meal times, which to me should be a major plus to revenue. But that plan lasted all of about 6-9 months I think? I remember riding the City shortly after the new cars were introduced and they had already gone back to the standard diner menu.


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## cpotisch (Aug 29, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> The cars that say the words "Cross Country Cafe" on them are currently being uses as -
> 
> 1- City of New Orleans - 1 Attendant (not LSA) serves a limited menu of pre-plated items.
> 
> ...


To my knowledge, you are completely correct expect for the fact that the cars are actually labelled as "diner-lounges" and not "Cross Country Cafes". And just so you know, when I was on the TE in February, the SSL was staffed and the lounge end of the CCC was completely abandoned.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 29, 2018)

Yep, the Texas Eagle normal consist has a CCC Serving as the Diner and Sightseer Lounge which has an LSA in the Downstairs Cafe.

The "Lounge" end of the CCC is used by the Crew and for storage.

Occasionally when a Second CCC is substituted for a SSL ( which sucks) the Cafe moves to the "Lounge" end of the Second CCC.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 29, 2018)

I thought I had remembered hearing that. Interesting they would keep the 2nd LSA for the lounge on the Eagle and not on the City.. so that's yet another difference.

On the City of New Orleans the CCC car is staffed by 1 LSA who runs the cafe out of the CCC cafe, and also handles the drink sales for the diner (and the few coach passengers that would want to / are allowed to eat in the "diner"?).

On the Texas Eagle the CCC car acts as a standard diner with 1 Diner LSA and the next door SSL is staffed as usual with it's own LSA.


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## NativeSon5859 (Aug 30, 2018)

On my trip on 59, the only announcement about the Dining Car came from the SA, who made the dinner and lunch announcements. I doubt coach passengers even knew it was an option. They had a pretty long line formed out the cafe end of the CCC stretching into the first Coach.

I love the train but the food service is embarrassing.


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## lordsigma (Aug 30, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> lordsigma said:
> 
> 
> > ...the cardinal/former LSL diner-lite approach, the CCC approach, the auto train diner which I guess is a step above CCC dining but below the full diner. Why not throw yet another one out there?
> ...


My apologies I was under the impression that the CCC was a type of "diner-lite" setup. Have not been on any of those trains myself. I guess I was referring to the CONO approach.


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## ehbowen (Aug 30, 2018)

A CCC kitchen can match anything that a full diner's kitchen can turn out...if only they staff it and stock it appropriately. Sadly, all too often that's not the case.


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## cpotisch (Aug 30, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> Sadly, all too often that's not the case.


Under stocking is just as big an issue in the standard diners as it is in the CCCs.


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