# Live tv inside train?



## erick (Dec 2, 2018)

Hey I'm investing in a cheap USB tv tuner to make my trips a little less boring, has anyone done this already and did it work for you? Thanks


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## cpotisch (Dec 2, 2018)

The main issue you’ll probably have with this is simply that you’re probably going to be whizzing in and out of range of different TV stations, so you likely won’t be able to watch any particular show or movie for very long. I would recommend just streaming from a phone or tablet that has a cellular connection, which won’t have this issue, instead of tuning into actual TV stations.


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## ehbowen (Dec 2, 2018)

Cellular data service is also likely to be very spotty. I'd recommend that you download movies and such onto your phone/tablet before you leave home and plan to "binge watch" any current season shows you missed after your return; save live streaming for news and current events as you travel.


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## jebr (Dec 2, 2018)

Also, unless you're watching one of the few Mobile TV-compatible stations, reception will drop off once you're traveling about 15 mph - ATSC (the standard for over-the-air TV for all full-power TV stations) isn't made to work when moving and so the digital signal drops off at that speed. That may change in a future standard, but for now in general reception will be difficult for over-the-air TV while moving on a train.

I agree with the rest that your best bet is to either download shows or watch via a streaming service of some sort if your data plan supports that.


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## railiner (Dec 2, 2018)

Years ago they had live television in the recreation car of the SCL Florida Special.   Back then they used analog transmission's, and coverage lasted for a bit in and out of various cities enroute...good enough to catch some news broadcasts here and there, but not much else...


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## PVD (Dec 2, 2018)

In reference to cell/cellular data service, quality and speed are very dependent on the areas you are traversing. Other than my annual LD trip west, I'm almost always East Coast near cities, way different than many other spots....I can tether and stream my most of my cable package to a laptop.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> The main issue you’ll probably have with this is simply that you’re probably going to be whizzing in and out of range of different TV stations, so you likely won’t be able to watch any particular show or movie for very long. I would recommend just streaming from a phone or tablet that has a cellular connection, which won’t have this issue, instead of tuning into actual TV stations.


On the routes where I live streaming video on a train is virtually impossible regardless of device or carrier.



ehbowen said:


> Cellular data service is also likely to be very spotty. I'd recommend that you download movies and such onto your phone/tablet before you leave home...


Bingo.


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## Acela150 (Dec 2, 2018)

Years ago the Viewliner I's had TV's in the rooms. They were removed in time I believe cause they were to costly to keep in use. And when Acela first rolled out they had CNN on in the cafe which again was pulled. See a common theme?


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## PVD (Dec 2, 2018)

The little screens in the VL played videos on a couple of channels getting signals from a set of VCR's in a cabinet in the car. VHS tapes and VHS VCRs don't hold up well under heavy use, and the little screens used to get stolen.


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## cpotisch (Dec 3, 2018)

95% of my LD train rides have been to and from Florida on the Silvers, and on that route, there is pretty good cell coverage basically the whole way. Of course if you’re on a western train rolling through the dessert or Rockies or Sierras, cell coverage will be pretty much nonexistent. So YMMV, and it’s probably best to plan in advance and download at least some entertainment.


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## erick (Dec 3, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> 95% of my LD train rides have been to and from Florida on the Silvers, and on that route, there is pretty good cell coverage basically the whole way. Of course if you’re on a western train rolling through the dessert or Rockies or Sierras, cell coverage will be pretty much nonexistent. So YMMV, and it’s probably best to plan in advance and download at least some entertainment.


Yeah I take the Texas eagle or the straight shot from Chicago to New Orleans, I have t mobile and at&t and coverage is extremely spotty and nonexistent for a good chunk of the way. You're lucky to live in Florida! I wonder if Verizon works better than at&t through the midwest train systems.


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## erick (Dec 3, 2018)

Acela150 said:


> Years ago the Viewliner I's had TV's in the rooms. They were removed in time I believe cause they were to costly to keep in use. And when Acela first rolled out they had CNN on in the cafe which again was pulled. See a common theme?


They want us to miss the news, I see! Blame the democrats! xD jk but hmm so in theory it is possible and has been done, that gives me a lot of hope


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## cpotisch (Dec 3, 2018)

erick said:


> They want us to miss the news, I see! *Blame the democrats!* xD jk but hmm so in theory it is possible and has been done, that gives me a lot of hope


Just as a heads up, and I know you were just making a joke, but discussion of politics isn’t allowed. So just to avoid any issue, I would recommend steering clear of this stuff.


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## cpotisch (Dec 3, 2018)

erick said:


> You're lucky to live in Florida! I wonder if Verizon works better than at&t through the midwest train systems.


I actually live in Brooklyn - I just take the train to/from Florida most winters to visit my grandparents down there. Interestingly though, I’m on T-Mobile, and have had very good coverage basically the whole way. :huh:


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## erick (Dec 3, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Just as a heads up, and I know you were just making a joke, but discussion of politics isn’t allowed. So just to avoid any issue, I would recommend steering clear of this stuff.


Oh I'm sorry! Yeah for sure, also do you know if there's a map somewhere(maybe rootmetrics) that has each carrier coverage over the amtrak lines? My main POI are Houston and New Orleans, have family in Texas but both trains end conveniently close to my destination lol on the upside I sleep most of the way (15 hr train, mostly at night) so it's not too terrible but decided to experiment something different now.


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## MikeM (Dec 17, 2018)

Agree with other posters, data service is spotty on most of the western trains.  Both Texas Eagle and Southwest Chief had big dead spots where I could get roaming voice service but data died.  I'm on sprint, you may have better luck with Verizon, but wouldn't totally bet on it.  In many respects, though, I find the isolation refreshing - I pack a book and daydream a lot, nice change from the typical day for me.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 18, 2018)

MikeM said:


> Agree with other posters, data service is spotty on most of the western trains.  Both Texas Eagle and Southwest Chief had big dead spots where I could get roaming voice service but data died.  I'm on sprint, you may have better luck with Verizon, but wouldn't totally bet on it.


I've used Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile on the Eagle and Chief and *all* of them had substantial dropouts and dead spots. To the best of my knowledge the only reliable method for maintaining service in those situations is the use of a dual/triple/quad link aggregator with multiple external antennas, but that solution is both expensive and ungainly.


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## ehbowen (Dec 18, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've used Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile on the Eagle and Chief and *all* of them had substantial dropouts and dead spots. To the best of my knowledge the only reliable method for maintaining service in those situations is the use of a dual/triple/quad link aggregator with multiple external antennas, but that solution is both expensive and ungainly.


If you want continuous onboard entertainment, the windows have very few dropouts on any of those trains....


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## VTTrain (Dec 18, 2018)

My impression is that the OP was not intending to use cellular data, but was going to capture the actual over the air broadcast signals.

I doubt that any antenna from a train window would be very effective, and as others have mentioned, you wouldn’t be within a coverage area for very long.


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## cpotisch (Dec 18, 2018)

VTTrain said:


> My impression is that the OP was not intending to use cellular data, but was going to capture the actual over the air broadcast signals.
> 
> I doubt that any antenna from a train window would be very effective, and as others have mentioned, you wouldn’t be within a coverage area for very long.


We know that the OP was not intending to use cellular data. But if you have a region with little to no cell service, odds are your TV signal also won’t be great. There is a correlation.


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## jebr (Dec 18, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> We know that the OP was not intending to use cellular data. But if you have a region with little to no cell service, odds are your TV signal also won’t be great. There is a correlation.


While there's a correlation, there's plenty of instances where TV signals would get through fine but cell phones, especially streaming video, wouldn't work well. TV stations have a much more powerful signal than the average cell tower (or cell phone for the return signal, which isn't required for terrestrial TV,) and in the days of analog TV even a weak signal could be somewhat watchable. There's also a lot of smaller towns that may have a repeater or one of their own stations, but may not have strong cellular coverage.

The biggest problem will certainly be the issue with regular ATSC 1.0, which doesn't work at speed. ATSC-MH will work at speed, but there's only a few dozen stations compatible with that across the country. If/when ATSC 3.0 becomes standard, that problem should go away as the technology allows for the signal to work when moving. However, that won't become widespread for at least a few years, so for any upcoming trips I'd expect terrestrial TV to only work when at the station or stuck on a siding waiting for a train to pass (or stopped for some other reason.)


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 18, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> If you want continuous onboard entertainment, the windows have very few dropouts on any of those trains....


Not everyone considers several hours of overgrazed ranch land blurring by for the fiftieth time to be all that thrilling.  Not to mention the extensive scenery "dropout" after the sun goes down and the bright lights and limo tint reflect the fiberglass interior back at you again. 



jebr said:


> If/when ATSC 3.0 becomes standard, that problem should go away as the technology allows for the signal to work when moving. However, that won't become widespread for at least a few years, so for any upcoming trips I'd expect terrestrial TV to only work when at the station or stuck on a siding waiting for a train to pass (or stopped for some other reason.)


That seems like a pretty unlikely outcome at this point.  ATSC 3.x still has no meaningful legal mandate and the market for handheld reception of broadcast television is basically nonexistent.  Digital broadcast television still isn't mandated to offer 1080p in the era of inexpensive 4K televisions.


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## mwmnp (Dec 19, 2018)

One my hobbies when traveling is recording TV video and data in cities I stay in. As such, I typically travel with a USB TV tuner, a mini-TV, and an assortment of small antennas. This includes on the train, though I seldom use any of this stuff on a moving train, because, as stated, trying to tune in TV signals in a moving vehicle is mostly futile and not really something I would recommend the average person attempt.

With that said, there are _some_ situations where reception of a normal TV signal (i.e. not a signal specifically designed for mobile devices) in a moving vehicle can be surprisingly decent. By that, I mean a signal that only occasionally experiences breakups and is generally watchable for maybe 10-15 minutes or more. In general, such reception is possible in flat areas with limited trees/obstructions and a powerful TV tower close by. Stations that broadcast on UHF are also much more likely to come in under these conditions than ones on VHF (note that digital TV signals aren't necessarily broadcast on the channel number you tune your TV to - for instance, a station that you tune on channel 6, which is VHF, may actually broadcast on a UHF channel; channel 6 is just a "virtual channel" in this case).

Off the top of my head, I can remember being on the southbound City of New Orleans and being able to watch nearly all of the 10 PM news from WCIA as we cruised through the Champaign/Urbana area. I have also been on the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited and managed to get roughly 10 minutes of watchable signal while passing through the Cleveland and Toledo areas. At least one of the Fargo TV stations should be viewable on the Empire Builder route between Fargo and Buxton, ND or so, too. I've never tried to pick up anything on the train there, but I have been successful in a car (not driving) going 75 mph on parallel I-29.

For reference, the antenna I've used for all of this is the simple portable telescoping one that Hauppauge includes with their TV tuners and also sells individually. If you have an electrical outlet close by, which you do on a train, a slightly larger amplified antenna may be marginally better, but not really worthwhile, in my opinion, since this whole endeavor is very much a novelty rather than something you should expect to work reliably or flawlessly.


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## railiner (Dec 19, 2018)

It was better back when broadcast TV was analog...true, you didn't get the crystal clear reception that digital provides, but you were able to get at least something, for a much longer time...

I still like bringing an AM/FM radio along, to listen to what's happening in the world, along the way...


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## rspenmoll (Dec 19, 2018)

This is a purely hypothetical question because I imagine there is little demand for such a service and so it would almost certainly not be financially viable, but is there anything from a technical standpoint that would prevent the provision of at seat and/or in sleeper room satellite tv like many airlines do for IFE?


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## VTTrain (Dec 19, 2018)

rspenmoll said:


> This is a purely hypothetical question because I imagine there is little demand for such a service and so it would almost certainly not be financially viable, but is there anything from a technical standpoint that would prevent the provision of at seat and/or in sleeper room satellite tv like many airlines do for IFE?


The biggest challenge I can think of is maintaining a reliable signal.  That’s much easier to do from 36,000 feet in the sky.  Tunnels and terrain would block a signal.


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## railiner (Dec 19, 2018)

rspenmoll said:


> This is a purely hypothetical question because I imagine there is little demand for such a service and so it would almost certainly not be financially viable, but is there anything from a technical standpoint that would prevent the provision of at seat and/or in sleeper room satellite tv like many airlines do for IFE?


The airliner's have pretty much unobstructed 'view' of the satellites....train's do not....buildings, hillside's, tunnel's, lots of thing's can interrupt coverage, not to mention frequent turns...


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## erick (Dec 19, 2018)

mwmnp said:


> One my hobbies when traveling is recording TV video and data in cities I stay in. As such, I typically travel with a USB TV tuner, a mini-TV, and an assortment of small antennas. This includes on the train, though I seldom use any of this stuff on a moving train, because, as stated, trying to tune in TV signals in a moving vehicle is mostly futile and not really something I would recommend the average person attempt.
> 
> With that said, there are _some_ situations where reception of a normal TV signal (i.e. not a signal specifically designed for mobile devices) in a moving vehicle can be surprisingly decent. By that, I mean a signal that only occasionally experiences breakups and is generally watchable for maybe 10-15 minutes or more. In general, such reception is possible in flat areas with limited trees/obstructions and a powerful TV tower close by. Stations that broadcast on UHF are also much more likely to come in under these conditions than ones on VHF (note that digital TV signals aren't necessarily broadcast on the channel number you tune your TV to - for instance, a station that you tune on channel 6, which is VHF, may actually broadcast on a UHF channel; channel 6 is just a "virtual channel" in this case).
> 
> ...


You good sir have pretty much done what I attempted. When in a city I usually scan and the signal is somewhat ok. So then you're constantly having to re scan for channels right? I also bought the Hauppauge tv tuner but I paid the 25 bucks for the pansky antenna, but can you just tune to a channel or gotta scan it first? Thanks a lot bro I'm kind of the same way too lol love experimenting with tech stuff and seeing whatcomes from it


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## erick (Dec 19, 2018)

rspenmoll said:


> This is a purely hypothetical question because I imagine there is little demand for such a service and so it would almost certainly not be financially viable, but is there anything from a technical standpoint that would prevent the provision of at seat and/or in sleeper room satellite tv like many airlines do for IFE?


lmao bro if this was all just based on demand And being financially viable amtrak as a whole would've shut down since the 70s xD we have to survive from government subsidies and with a negative turn in ridership I doubt they'll want to keep pouring money here  anyway no it's not hypothetical it's actual because I want to try it with a ubs tv tuner and was wondering if anyone has tried it before, that's it.


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## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

erick said:


> rspenmoll said:
> 
> 
> > This is a purely hypothetical question because I imagine there is little demand for such a service and so it would almost certainly not be financially viable, but is there anything from a technical standpoint that would prevent the provision of at seat and/or in sleeper room satellite tv like many airlines do for IFE?
> ...


a) Please use periods because that was maybe five sentences merged into one.

b) Using a personal USB TV tuner is very different from any kind of installed satellite system.

b) I’m not saying that rspenmoll’s idea would necessarily work, but your logic that “Amtrak isn’t financially viable, so it’s pointless to think about costs or demand for new services or amenities” makes no sense. That’s like saying that if someone has diabetes, there is no point in them ever thinking about what to eat or what not to eat, because they already have diabetes. It just doesn’t connect.


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## mwmnp (Dec 19, 2018)

erick said:


> You good sir have pretty much done what I attempted. When in a city I usually scan and the signal is somewhat ok. So then you're constantly having to re scan for channels right? I also bought the Hauppauge tv tuner but I paid the 25 bucks for the pansky antenna, but can you just tune to a channel or gotta scan it first? Thanks a lot bro I'm kind of the same way too lol love experimenting with tech stuff and seeing whatcomes from it


Yeah, you need to rescan a lot. You can manually tune though, too, as long as you have the right software and know what physical channel the station you are looking for broadcasts on. For watching and recording with my Hauppauge tuner, I usually use NextPVR. For signal analysis, I use TSReader, which does manual tuning by default. You can also watch or record through TSReader, but the free version of the program limits you to just one minute.


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