# Hurricane Sandy and Amtrak.



## BOS-T-Time

Hello,

Along with being an aficionado of railroads, I am a bit of a weather nut and have been following the different models and forums in regard to Sandy in the Carribean and its possible impacts to the Mid-Atlantic and New England. I have my first long distant trip from BOS-NYP-ATL-NYP-BOS (NE Regional and Crescent) beginning on Tuesday. I was wondering how Amtrak handles major storms in this instance, do they cancel service or try to run it with possible trains being truncated along the route at stations to wait out the storm. I ask this because this storm can be predicted about 24-48 hours unlike a thunderstorm or the like that can not. Does Amtrak take precautions and cancel train service on the North East Corridor or other routes when there is a major storm imminent?

Thanks,

BOS-T-Time

PS. I used my points for this trip so I can cancel it without penalty although I was looking forward to it.

PPS. This storm, if the conditions come together, will be a major event from the Mid-Atlantic through Nova Scotia. Please take heed to your local weather Mets.


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## AlanB

Amtrak usually will try to keep running if they can. But the decision is usually not up to Amtrak, it's up to the host RR, in this case CSX. If reports have the storm getting too close to the coast, and especially if they're expecting winds of 60 MPH or more, CSX will close their tracks to remove the gates which can fly off with high winds.

And that would of course force Amtrak to cancel.


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## Ryan

I think that you meant Norfolk Southern there. The only CSX that the Crescent sees is between WAS and ALX, right?

The biggest concern I would have is actually wires coming down on the NEC portion of the trip, which could delay you (but you'd likely get through at some point).


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## AlanB

Ryan said:


> I think that you meant Norfolk Southern there. The only CSX that the Crescent sees is between WAS and ALX, right?


You're quite right! That's what I get for posting quickly and while very tired. Didn't really pay total attention to what was written.


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## Shanghai

According to weather reports on New York radio, the storm will be

quite serious and may include some snow in some areas. Another

October snowstorm??


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## Ryan

Sandy crossed over Cuba last night without much weakening at all (usually the mountains knock the storm down some). She's tracking a little east of the forecast track at this point, so good news for Florida, but pretty much everywhere from North Carolina to Maine should really be keeping an eye on things. The fact that the storm will be hitting at the full moon (bringing the highest of high tides) doesn't help with the possible flooding issues, and if there is snow (I'm not convinced that we're going to see any appreciable snow except maybe up in the mountains), the fact that there is still foliage on the trees is going to cause major problems as well.


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## AmtrakBlue

I've heard that conditions are such that this could be a "perfect storm". The hurricane, a cold front and I guess the 3rd element is a low coming from the southwest? Guess I'll be spending part of my Saturday batting down the hatches. Luckily I don't have that much stuff outside to worry about.

Edit: I was talking to my daughter last night about fall weather and said "wait till you experience a day where it's warm and possibly raining then snowing by evening"


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## jis

Why would you be battening down hatches on Saturday when the storm won't get anywhere near you until Tuesday, assuming you are still in DE?

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at201218_5day.html

Over the weekend it will only cause cloudy skies and some rain in SE US.


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## AmtrakBlue

jis said:


> Why would you be battening down hatches on Saturday when the storm won't get anywhere near you until Tuesday, assuming you are still in DE?
> 
> http://www.wundergro...01218_5day.html
> 
> Over the weekend it will only cause cloudy skies and some rain in SE US.


Well, Saturday or Sunday. What I'll be "battening down" is stuff that probably needs to be put away for the winter anyway. Don't want to have to do it Monday night (since I work during the day).


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## AmtrakBlue

And, of course, it's too early to know if it's going to come "in" or stay out to sea. I've heard both today as the likely track.


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## Ryan

11am forecast track:







Jis, it looks like it's coming right for you! 

Seriously, anywhere inside of the cone is a possible track for the CENTER of the storm. Damaging winds and rain are possible well outside of that area.


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## jis

Looks like slightly less than 60kts intensity near the eye at 8am Tuesday.


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## BOS-T-Time

Hello,

Well it is looking like this storm is going to be very bad and my main concern is on the NEC with the wires and flooding along the coast. Although I wouldn't mind being stuck on a train, it's not how I want to spend my vacation.

Although disappointed about not taking my first overnighter, I am going to wait until this weekend to cancel. I went ahead and booked myself BOS-CHI-WAS-BOS on the LSL, CL, and NER in December with low bucket fares in a Roomette.

I hope this storm does not do too much damage but the latest models are not looking pretty.

BOS-T-TIME


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## jis

The most critical factor will be wind speed projections and it is a tad bit early for that to be nailed down fully. Clearly the area that the eye passes over will get something of the order of 60 - 70mph as it looks. At present the wind speed profile of the storm at Cat 2 is quite tight, with tropical storm winds not stretching out too far. By the time it gets to new York it will probably be at most 60-70 mph at the eye, and some distnace from it will be tropical storm force winds. Hopefully not too far.


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## pennyk

For what it is worth, here in Orlando, we have already started feeling some of the effects of Sandy. The Florida coast is expected to have some erosion in addition to rain and winds. Here in Central Florida, we are expected to have rain off and on through the weekend. My fingers are crossed that the storm bypasses the mid-Atlantic, Northeast and New England.


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## Tracktwentynine

Current projections from the Washington Post's Capital Weather Gang:


45% chance: Storm strikes the coast between northern New Jersey and southern Connecticut.
30% chance: Storm makes direct hit on the Delmarva Peninsula and Washington DC.
20% chance: Storm runs up the coast, finally hitting coastal Massachusetts, New Hampshire, or Maine.
5% chance: Storm runs up the coast and then heads out to sea.
As far as the Northeast Corridor goes, there's a 75% chance that the storm will hit the eastern seaboard between Washington DC and Connecticut, which would be bad. I think there's a good chance that service will be disrupted on parts or all of the corridor sometime early next week.


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## MrFSS

Tracktwentynine said:


> Current projections from the Washington Post's Capital Weather Gang:
> 
> 
> 45% chance: Storm strikes the coast between northern New Jersey and southern Connecticut.
> 30% chance: Storm makes direct hit on the Delmarva Peninsula and Washington DC.
> 20% chance: Storm runs up the coast, finally hitting coastal Massachusetts, New Hampshire, or Maine.
> 5% chance: Storm runs up the coast and then heads out to sea.
> As far as the Northeast Corridor goes, there's a 75% chance that the storm will hit the eastern seaboard between Washington DC and Connecticut, which would be bad. I think there's a good chance that service will be disrupted on parts or all of the corridor sometime early next week.


National Hurricane Center Forecast is *HERE*.


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## The Davy Crockett

IMHO: hboy: The National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Center rely very heavily on computer models for their forecasts. These computer models are based in no small part on historical data. The problem that arises in predicting Sandy's track is that, because it is an unusual and rare stitaution, there is not a lot of historical data to feed into the computer models. This increases the unreliabilty of the models and thus, the forecasts. The next 5 or 6 days should be interesting...


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## TimePeace

Ryan said:


> The fact that the storm will be hitting at the full moon (bringing the highest of high tides) doesn't help with the possible flooding issues


Generally true, but not extreme in this case. The biggest tides occur two or three days past the full AND the new moon, and every three months or so are the biggest. The high tides in here on the Maine coast this coming Monday will be above average, but will run a foot higher in mid-November, a couple of days past new moon.

That said, this is definitely a storm to be taken seriously. I work on the water, and we are and will be making some serious preparations for a big blow.

Wishing you all the best...


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## CHamilton

Those of us from other parts of the country wish all of you on the east coast our best wishes. Please stay safe, dry and warm!


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## jis

The Davy Crockett said:


> IMHO: hboy: The National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Center rely very heavily on computer models for their forecasts. These computer models are based in no small part on historical data. The problem that arises in predicting Sandy's track is that, because it is an unusual and rare stitaution, there is not a lot of historical data to feed into the computer models. This increases the unreliabilty of the models and thus, the forecasts. The next 5 or 6 days should be interesting...


Actually they don't use a single model. They use an ensemble of models and their predictions and use a weighted average of some sort to come up with the most probable path and intensity projections together with confidence intervals for the projection. The further out you go in time the lower is the confidence and bigger is the diameter of the probability cone. All models are not based only on history. They use detailed water temp, air temp and atmospheric condition data and feed them into models that run on various Supercomputers. It is quite a fascinating thing actually. Here is what the ensemble model for this storm looks like at present:






I can't yet find the latest ensemble which brings the white line further south to the vicinity of NY City. It should be up sometime later today.


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## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> Actually they don't use a single model.


 Exactly, which is why I is used the plural 'models'


> All models are not based only on history. They use detailed water temp, air temp and atmospheric condition data and feed them into models that run on various Supercomputers.


 Exactly. They use histoical data to help predict how the other factors will interact.


> It is quite a fascinating thing actually.


 Escpecially if one is not in harm's way.


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## pennyk

According to the local Orlando news, the storm is moving faster than anticipated and will move past Central Florida 12 hours sooner than originally predicted. Schools will be closed in Brevard County (which is on the coast and where Cape Canaveral, Melbourne and Cocoa Beach are located). Schools will not be closed in Volusia County, where Daytona Beach is located. The Silvers do not travel through Daytona Beach or Brevard County, however, the winds in South Florida are currently pretty strong.

The wind gusts in Orlando today were 25mph. The waves in Brevard County beaches are expected to be 20-30 feet tomorrow with rip currents.


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## RampWidget

As of 2300 tonight in South Florida, no curtailments of operations are being reported by Amtrak, Tri-Rail, FEC, or CSX; I imagine they all have their hurricane contingency plans in effect to be used as need be.

Passenger trains, through freights, locals, & yard assignments appear to be working as usual.


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## rile42

With thousands upon thousands of miles traveling Amtrak from coast to coast in all seasons, this is the first time I've ever been concerned about weather affecting an upcoming trip. I am traveling to Washington DC on the Capitol Limited, leaving Cleveland early on Nov. 3rd. After arriving in DC, I am leaving late on the night of the 3rd, I am going to Boston on #66 up the NEC arriving early Sunday morning on the 4th. At Boston, my wife, who will be there visiting her sister, and I will board the Lake Shore Limited on that Sunday morning to return back to Cleveland.

I know the storm is supposed to pass through somewhere along my path a few days before my trip. I am concerned about damage that would shut down the NEC for several days. I forget how long part of it was shut down, I think it was last year, but it seemed like it was three or four days. That would put me very close to getting stranded somewhere for the very first time.


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## Just-Thinking-51

rile42 said:


> With thousands upon thousands of miles traveling Amtrak from coast to coast in all seasons, this is the first time I've ever been concerned about weather affecting an upcoming trip. I am traveling to Washington DC on the Capitol Limited, leaving Cleveland early on Nov. 3rd. After arriving in DC, I am leaving late on the night of the 3rd, I am going to Boston on #66 up the NEC arriving early Sunday morning on the 4th. At Boston, my wife, who will be there visiting her sister, and I will board the Lake Shore Limited on that Sunday morning to return back to Cleveland.
> 
> I know the storm is supposed to pass through somewhere along my path a few days before my trip. I am concerned about damage that would shut down the NEC for several days. I forget how long part of it was shut down, I think it was last year, but it seemed like it was three or four days. That would put me very close to getting stranded somewhere for the very first time.


Yes you might have a issue, but you will have plenty of time after the storm to worry / seek another route, or different transportation.

Point of fact is we don't have any idea of the severity of the storm this far out. Oh yes NJ, NY is going to get wet, but other than cleaning out the gutters on your house, and bring in the outside stuff, nothing to stress out about.

Yet

.


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## Ryan

I would also recommend ensuring you're prepared for a loss of power for a period of time. Batteries, flashlights, if you have a generator pick of a can or two of gas and ensure that the motor is in running order. If you get some of the small water bottles, you can use them to fill up the empty spaces in your freezer now. The water will freeze and if the power goes out the ice bottles will help the freezer stay cold for a longer period of time.

This morning's forecast from the NHC has shifted the projected landfall south into Delaware:


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## AmtrakBlue

Ryan said:


> I would also recommend ensuring you're prepared for a loss of power for a period of time. Batteries, flashlights, if you have a generator pick of a can or two of gas and ensure that the motor is in running order. If you get some of the small water bottles, you can use them to fill up the empty spaces in your freezer now. The water will freeze and if the power goes out the ice bottles will help the freezer stay cold for a longer period of time.
> 
> This morning's forecast from the NHC has shifted the projected landfall south into Delaware:


Yep, looks like she's coming for a visit here. I already have bags of ice in my freezer since I have so little food in there anyway. I have an ice maker, so I will probably fill up some more ziplock bags by Monday night. We went through all this with Irene last year. Hopefully the caulking my landlord put around a window after Irene sent some minor rain into our living room/basement (through the floor board) is still "good". I'll have to remember to put a tarp under the window just in case.


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## Ryan

Here's a link to an excellent post describing some of the science behind this storm and what some of the possible impact could be - it's an excellent read:

http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=2284806#p2284806

Here's an excerpt talking about possible impacts (but I highly suggest going to read the whole thing):



> Possible Impacts:
> As with any rare weather event the impacts are somewhat of an unknown. Additionally the uncertainty of how Sandy will evolve and how is curves back toward the US coast will drive where and how severe the impacts will be.
> 
> It can be easily stated that should the forecast track and models “spectacular” low pressure verify a storm of rare intensity and tremendous impacts will be felt along the NE and mid-Atlantic coast. Given the forecasted perpendicular strike on the coast, onshore winds will push the Atlantic Ocean inland along the New Jersey and New York coast including New York City. Due to the high blocking over Greenland, the fetch of wind will extend nearly across the entire Atlantic Ocean and this will result in massive wave action aimed at the NE US coast. Lunar tides are also near peak with the full moon on Monday and this combined with the wave run-up and long duration of onshore winds (20-30 hours at 60-80mph) will result in potentially record breaking storm surge values. The potential is there for coastal inundation of sea water never before experienced in the NE US including New York City, but this depends heavily on the exact track of the center of Sandy.
> 
> Strong winds will batter much of the mid Atlantic and NE for not hours but days as Sandy moves NW to WNW and slows. These winds will last anywhere from 20-30 hours at 60-80mph with higher gust resulting in widespread power outages and downed trees. Strong winds will spread well inland from the coast into Canada and the OH valley.
> 
> Rainfall will be extensive as tropical moisture is brought northward with Sandy and pushed against a stalled front nearly along the higher terrain of the Appalachian mountains. Flooding rainfall due to the high rainfall rates and slow storm motion is likely and it is possible some rivers will reach record crests.
> 
> Impacts over the open Atlantic will be severe with a massive area of sustained winds of 60-70mph over hundreds of miles. Wave heights will build into the 20-30 foot range and I would not be surprised to see heights build toward 40-45 feet. Visibilities will be reduced to near zero in blowing sea spray and heavy rainfall.
> 
> Potential for widespread travel and commerce disruption as air, surface, sea, and rail travel will likely be significantly impacted along with widespread long term power outages which could last well into November.


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## amamba

Ugh. I am supposed to close on a new house on 11/6. It's a short sale so we are buying it "as is". I sincerely hope it doesn't get damaged by the storm prior to closing. Honestly I would rather close prior to the storm, that way my insurance would cover any damages sustained by wind.

Everyone, please stay safe!


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## afigg

rile42 said:


> With thousands upon thousands of miles traveling Amtrak from coast to coast in all seasons, this is the first time I've ever been concerned about weather affecting an upcoming trip. I am traveling to Washington DC on the Capitol Limited, leaving Cleveland early on Nov. 3rd. After arriving in DC, I am leaving late on the night of the 3rd, I am going to Boston on #66 up the NEC arriving early Sunday morning on the 4th. At Boston, my wife, who will be there visiting her sister, and I will board the Lake Shore Limited on that Sunday morning to return back to Cleveland.
> 
> I know the storm is supposed to pass through somewhere along my path a few days before my trip. I am concerned about damage that would shut down the NEC for several days. I forget how long part of it was shut down, I think it was last year, but it seemed like it was three or four days. That would put me very close to getting stranded somewhere for the very first time.


The storm looks to hit the Mid-Atlantic region around Monday. It would be a very unusual for the NEC to be disrupted for more than several days. Extensive flooding is what can close the NEC for extended periods, but by Saturday, it should be running. If you were doing this trip Wednesday or Thursday, it would be more at risk, but you should be ok. The caveat is the Capitol Limited. If the severe weather from storm moves far enough inland to western PA and MD, CSX might shut the route down for a few days while they clear the ROW.


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## jis

afigg said:


> The storm looks to hit the Mid-Atlantic region around Monday. It would be a very unusual for the NEC to be disrupted for more than several days. Extensive flooding is what can close the NEC for extended periods, but by Saturday, it should be running. If you were doing this trip Wednesday or Thursday, it would be more at risk, but you should be ok. The caveat is the Capitol Limited. If the severe weather from storm moves far enough inland to western PA and MD, CSX might shut the route down for a few days while they clear the ROW.


With the amount of rain that they are projecting, Trenton Station will most likely be under 4 feet of water as the creek tries to drain its catchment area. Hopefully SEPTA will remember to remove their trains from there this time and keep them from getting a soaking.

I think if the storm lives upto its reputation NEC will pretty much be shut down through NJ sometime Monday and will stay that way until sometime in Tuesday.


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## Ryan

Speaking of rainfall projections, here's the 5 day projection (so through Tuesday morning - expect these crazy values to spread north as time progresses):


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## CHamilton

I'm sure that those of you on the east coast are getting all the usual preparedness warnings. Here's one that's focused on your techy-type needs, like phones and such. None of this is rocket science, but it may be a good reminder. Here's wishing you all the best.

Here comes Hurricane Sandy: Charge 'em if you got 'em



> Hurricane Sandy's on her way, and she's liable to make a mess of things next week. Just how bad depends on who you're reading, but regardless it's time to start getting ready.
> 
> 
> Charge your phones. Now. Keep them charged. And once the storm starts, keep them off. You'll likely lose power at some point, and there's a good chance your local cell network will go down for a bit, even with generator backups.
> Spare batteries. If you got 'em, make sure they're charged, too. If you still have time to get some, do it.
> Car charger. Get one. Get a couple, actually.


...and several more.


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## AmtrakBlue

CHamilton said:


> I'm sure that those of you on the east coast are getting all the usual preparedness warnings. Here's one that's focused on your techy-type needs, like phones and such. None of this is rocket science, but it may be a good reminder. Here's wishing you all the best.
> 
> Here comes Hurricane Sandy: Charge 'em if you got 'em
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurricane Sandy's on her way, and she's liable to make a mess of things next week. Just how bad depends on who you're reading, but regardless it's time to start getting ready.
> 
> 
> Charge your phones. Now. Keep them charged. And once the storm starts, keep them off. You'll likely lose power at some point, and there's a good chance your local cell network will go down for a bit, even with generator backups.
> Spare batteries. If you got 'em, make sure they're charged, too. If you still have time to get some, do it.
> *Car charger*. Get one. Get a couple, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and several more.
Click to expand...

I was going to say I don't need to worry about charging my phone if the electric goes out...I can use my car. I know things could still go wrong, but, what the heck. Hmm, may need to reactivate my USB Modem. Will probably just wait to see if I need it and call to reactivate it.

I'm not too worried. I'm old enough to remember "getting along" without all the gadgetry. :giggle:


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## The Davy Crockett

Ryan said:


> Speaking of rainfall projections, here's the 5 day projection (so through Tuesday morning - expect these crazy values to spread north as time progresses):


With the possible rain totals in the Potomac River watershed flooding could be a major problem for 29 & 30. I remember Agnes in June 0f 1972. I can't remember if the (now) CSX tracks up the valley were severly impacted, but the damage in the river valley was horrific. BTW, HERE is a link to Agnes's track.


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## Anderson

*sighs*

Ok, it looks like I'm going to be heading down to Florida for a few days to avoid a hurricane. _Again._ Fortunately, the Silvers are on low bucket for Sunday night.


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## jis

Anderson said:


> *sighs*
> 
> Ok, it looks like I'm going to be heading down to Florida for a few days to avoid a hurricane. _Again._ Fortunately, the Silvers are on low bucket for Sunday night.


That's because there have been lots of cancellations. Given CSXs past record, my guess is there will be no Silvers running Sunday night, or worse if they are running they will get stuck somewhere on the way, or be running under flash flood warning at 10mph, since its route passes through areas that will have Tropical Storm force winds and soaking rain by that time. You'd probably be better off heading off to Chicago tomorrow 

BTW _United Airlines_ have already posted their fee waiver and fare difference waiver policy for all airports affected by Sandy:



> Flight Changes:
> 
> When rescheduled travel commences by November 4, 2012, change fees and fare differences will be waived.
> 
> For all other dates and ticket uses, the change fee will be waived, but a difference in fare may apply.
> 
> ​​​Refunds:
> 
> Refunds are permitted only if your flight is cancelled or delayed at least 2 hours.
> 
> Policies also apply to consolidator, internet tickets, and MileagePlus® award tickets.
> 
> ​​​


Not a peep from Amtrak yet. So I am assuming all Amtrak service will run without being affected by Sandy.  Well not really. I just cancelled my mileage run to Savannah this weekend. Did so 24 hours before departure to get 100% refund.


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> ...
> 
> BTW _United Airlines_ have already posted their fee waiver and fare difference waiver policy for all airports affected by Sandy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flight Changes:
> 
> When rescheduled travel commences by November 4, 2012, change fees and fare differences will be waived.
> 
> For all other dates and ticket uses, the change fee will be waived, but a difference in fare may apply.
> 
> ​​​Refunds:
> 
> Refunds are permitted only if your flight is cancelled or delayed at least 2 hours.
> 
> Policies also apply to consolidator, internet tickets, and MileagePlus® award tickets.
> 
> ​​​
> 
> 
> 
> Not a peep from Amtrak yet. So I am assuming all Amtrak service will run without being affected by Sandy.  Well not really. I just cancelled my mileage run to Savannah this weekend. Did so 24 hours before departure to get 100% refund.
Click to expand...

Interesting that weather issues are typically addressed by airlines prior to the event, and Amtrak is always after-the-fact reactive. One would think that it would be in Amtrak's best interest to clear reservations from service that has a good chance of being disrupted, but I guess they don't think that far ahead.


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## johnny.menhennet

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> BTW _United Airlines_ have already posted their fee waiver and fare difference waiver policy for all airports affected by Sandy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flight Changes:
> 
> When rescheduled travel commences by November 4, 2012, change fees and fare differences will be waived.
> 
> For all other dates and ticket uses, the change fee will be waived, but a difference in fare may apply.
> 
> ​​​Refunds:
> 
> Refunds are permitted only if your flight is cancelled or delayed at least 2 hours.
> 
> Policies also apply to consolidator, internet tickets, and MileagePlus® award tickets.
> 
> ​​​
> 
> 
> 
> Not a peep from Amtrak yet. So I am assuming all Amtrak service will run without being affected by Sandy.  Well not really. I just cancelled my mileage run to Savannah this weekend. Did so 24 hours before departure to get 100% refund.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that weather issues are typically addressed by airlines prior to the event, and Amtrak is always after-the-fact reactive. One would think that it would be in Amtrak's best interest to clear reservations from service that has a good chance of being disrupted, but I guess they don't think that far ahead.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by clearing reservations, but with odds shaping up like they are, I would think it smart to just show a "SOLD OUT" for a few days. This doesn't affect current passengers if the situation turns out to be fine, but Amtrak could always open up space again 12 hours out, to maybe make up SOME of that.


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## Phil S

jis said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO: hboy: The National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Center rely very heavily on computer models for their forecasts. These computer models are based in no small part on historical data. The problem that arises in predicting Sandy's track is that, because it is an unusual and rare stitaution, there is not a lot of historical data to feed into the computer models. This increases the unreliabilty of the models and thus, the forecasts. The next 5 or 6 days should be interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually they don't use a single model. They use an ensemble of models and their predictions and use a weighted average of some sort to come up with the most probable path and intensity projections together with confidence intervals for the projection. The further out you go in time the lower is the confidence and bigger is the diameter of the probability cone. All models are not based only on history. They use detailed water temp, air temp and atmospheric condition data and feed them into models that run on various Supercomputers. It is quite a fascinating thing actually. Here is what the ensemble model for this storm looks like at present:
Click to expand...

I'm under the impression that none of the dynamic models use any sort of storm historical data directly in the simulations. Of course parameter values are based on all sorts of historical data. The intensity forecast, OTOH, is based almost entirely on a statistical analysis of previous storms (SHIPS - Statistical Hurricane Intensity Prediction Scheme).

The storm surge will only be a factor to the east/north of where the eye makes landfall. Unfortunately, the most likely path takes it inland west/south of NYC. Regardless, unless we're incredibly lucky, it's going to be a real mess.


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## PRR 60

johnny.menhennet said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that weather issues are typically addressed by airlines prior to the event, and Amtrak is always after-the-fact reactive. One would think that it would be in Amtrak's best interest to clear reservations from service that has a good chance of being disrupted, but I guess they don't think that far ahead.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by clearing reservations, but with odds shaping up like they are, I would think it smart to just show a "SOLD OUT" for a few days. This doesn't affect current passengers if the situation turns out to be fine, but Amtrak could always open up space again 12 hours out, to maybe make up SOME of that.
Click to expand...

Clearing reservations means allowing passengers holding reservations to or from affected locations to be re-accommodated without fare change prior to the storm. That is what airlines do. Someone booked into or out of EWR on UA can now go online or call UA and be rebooked on a flight either before the storm or a few days after the storm with no rebooking fee and no change of fare. If there is a seat on a flight, they can get it, even if they paid a low sale fare months ago. That is great for the passenger. It reduces the uncertainty involved with travelling during the storm. The airline wins as well. Each person who rebooks before the storm is one less person who has to be handled during and after the storm when phone lines are jammed and flights are booked solid for days.

Amtrak, it seems, does not see any advantage to pre-clearing reservations from trains that are likely to be impacted by a storm. If a customer calls Amtrak today wanting to rebook a departing Newark from Monday to Sunday (before the storm) or Thursday (after) will have to follow the regular rebooking process, including paying any additional fare resulting from bucket changes. Storm or no storm, it makes no difference. Amtrak will not handle storm rebookings without fare changes until a train is officially cancelled, likely during the storm. By that time, the storm is in full force, and getting through to Amtrak will not be easy. The result is even more stress on already overworked customer service reps and on passengers who may have jumped at a chance to take care of things before the storm.


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## NW cannonball

AmtrakBlue said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure that those of you on the east coast are getting all the usual preparedness warnings. Here's one that's focused on your techy-type needs, like phones and such. None of this is rocket science, but it may be a good reminder. Here's wishing you all the best.
> 
> Here comes Hurricane Sandy: Charge 'em if you got 'em
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurricane Sandy's on her way, and she's liable to make a mess of things next week. Just how bad depends on who you're reading, but regardless it's time to start getting ready.
> 
> 
> Charge your phones. Now. Keep them charged. And once the storm starts, keep them off. You'll likely lose power at some point, and there's a good chance your local cell network will go down for a bit, even with generator backups.
> Spare batteries. If you got 'em, make sure they're charged, too. If you still have time to get some, do it.
> *Car charger*. Get one. Get a couple, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and several more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was going to say I don't need to worry about charging my phone if the electric goes out...I can use my car. I know things could still go wrong, but, what the heck. Hmm, may need to reactivate my USB Modem. Will probably just wait to see if I need it and call to reactivate it.
> 
> I'm not too worried. I'm old enough to remember "getting along" without all the gadgetry. :giggle:
Click to expand...

And fill and keep full the gas tank on your car(s).

My kids were in the Hannukah Eve windstorm in Seatlle in Dec 2006. Surprising how few gas stations have backup generators - many had gas but couldn't pump it and those that could were commandeered by emergency services. Many supermarkets and shopping centers only have limited fuel for their backup generators and may have to close after less than a day without power if fuel delivery can't get through, so if grid power loss is widespread -- *be prepared. *And of course don't run the car in a closed garage to recharge your lithium batteries - carbon monoxide poisoning (mostly from tyring to heat apartments with charcoal) was the leading cause of death in that Seattle power outage -- which lasted up to 4 days in some suburbs.

The most popular man in their Eastside suburb was the one who had a propane-fuelled water heater. Lots of friends showed up to take a candle-light shower at his place - especially on the 3d and 4th day of the power outage.

Take care.

Eric


----------



## ScottRu

11:00 AM EST on Saturday - the Euro and US projections are coalescing and predicting the storm will hit around NJ and will arrive earlier than originally thought - Monday afternoon/evening is now predicted to be landfall. This thing is huge, and as many have noted - though the eye of the storm will be particularly violent, those of us up and down the East Coast will be hit hard. I hope everyone is safe through this one.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Supplies are in. Now its time to batten down the hatches. h34r:


----------



## Anderson

And I'm booked on the Meteor tomorrow night. I moved my departure up as much as my schedule allows me to in light of the changing storm schedule.

Edit: Oddity I've noticed. The Meteor is down to one room left and the Star is sold out (those sleepers are selling quite quickly today...I'm guessing I'm not the only one doing what I'm doing). Why in the blazes are the Meteor roomettes still at $322 rather than at $458?


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Anderson said:


> And I'm booked on the Meteor tomorrow night. I moved my departure up as much as my schedule allows me to in light of the changing storm schedule.
> 
> Edit: Oddity I've noticed. The Meteor is down to one room left and the Star is sold out (those sleepers are selling quite quickly today...I'm guessing I'm not the only one doing what I'm doing). Why in the blazes are the Meteor roomettes still at $322 rather than at $458?


I believe they resell cancelled res. rooms for what the original price paid was.


----------



## Anderson

The Davy Crockett said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm booked on the Meteor tomorrow night. I moved my departure up as much as my schedule allows me to in light of the changing storm schedule.
> 
> Edit: Oddity I've noticed. The Meteor is down to one room left and the Star is sold out (those sleepers are selling quite quickly today...I'm guessing I'm not the only one doing what I'm doing). Why in the blazes are the Meteor roomettes still at $322 rather than at $458?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe they resell cancelled res. rooms for what the original price paid was.
Click to expand...

I think you're partly right...actually, I'm guessing that it's "they at least do so unless revenue management gets to the room first."


----------



## CHamilton

jis said:


> Not a peep from Amtrak yet.


There's darn little. Nothing on Amtrak.com, nothing on the @Amtrak or @AmtrakNEC Twitter accounts, and just a short note dated Friday afternoon on the Amtrak Facebook page:



> AMTRAK PREPARES FOR HURRICANE SANDY
> 
> by Amtrak on Friday, October 26, 2012 at 1:47pm ·
> 
> Amtrak is continuously monitoring Hurricane Sandy as the storm approaches the East Coast with the potential for heavy rain and high winds.
> 
> In addition to monitoring the storm’s path, Amtrak crews and equipment are being deployed to key locations along Amtrak-owned tracks in the Northeast.
> 
> The crews will monitor, protect and make any necessary repairs to the tracks, equipment and stations, including likely removal of trees and other debris from the tracks and the overhead electrical wires after the storm passes.
> 
> Furthermore, the Amtrak Police Department will be adding officers as necessary to support operational needs.
> 
> At this time, all trains are operating as scheduled. Amtrak will continue to monitor the hurricane as it progresses and issue service updates as necessary.
> 
> Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at Amtrak.com.


----------



## jis

Just saw a posting from what appears to be an Amtrak insider on trainorders which says



> NEC is shut down Monday and Tuesday. #30 won't run out of Chicago on Sunday, #29 won't run out of DC on Monday, #48 will run on Sunday from Chicago to Albany only. More to come


I must admit I do not know the person who posted this, but the parameters presented seem quite logical. So we will see if we get verification in the near future from other sources.

In any case I expect more announcements to start rolling in over the next 12 hours.

Incidentally NY City is planning to shut down bridges if sustained winds of 60mph come to pass as forecast. Someone pointed out that it would be foolhardy for Amtrak to continue operations across the Susquehanna River with sustained cross winds of 60-70mph.


----------



## NY Penn

Why is Amtrak taking so long to even admit that Sandy will affect it? At this point it should be obvious that it will have to shut the NEC down.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

From Amtrak's website:



> AMTRAK BEGINS TO CANCEL SOME SERVICE IN ADVANCE OF HURRICANE SANDYPassengers encouraged to travel earlier and check train status before departing to station
> 
> Saturday, Oct. 27, 2012
> 
> 6:30 p.m. ET
> 
> As Hurricane Sandy continues to progress, Amtrak is canceling some service for Sunday, Oct. 28, 2012. Passengers are encouraged to travel on earlier available trains on Sunday. Additional cancelations might be necessary in the coming days as this major storm moves north.
> 
> While Amtrak will be contacting passengers who have provided information in their reservations, customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on the Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> The following cancelations have been made:
> 
> Origination dates of Sunday, Oct. 28
> 
> Canceled between Richmond and Newport News, Va.: Northeast Regional Train 99
> 
> Canceled between Chicago and Washington D.C.: Capitol Limited Train 30
> 
> Canceled between Miami and New York: Silver Star Train 92
> 
> Canceled between Washington D.C. and New York: Silver Meteor Train 98 and Crescent Train 20
> 
> Origination dates of Monday, Oct. 29
> 
> Canceled between Washington D.C. and Chicago: Capitol Limited Train 29


----------



## Anderson

Well, it looks like at least the "odd" LD trains are still originating tomorrow, so that's good. But I'm _really_ glad I didn't bet on Monday's train.


----------



## Trogdor

Anderson said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm booked on the Meteor tomorrow night. I moved my departure up as much as my schedule allows me to in light of the changing storm schedule.
> 
> Edit: Oddity I've noticed. The Meteor is down to one room left and the Star is sold out (those sleepers are selling quite quickly today...I'm guessing I'm not the only one doing what I'm doing). Why in the blazes are the Meteor roomettes still at $322 rather than at $458?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe they resell cancelled res. rooms for what the original price paid was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you're partly right...actually, I'm guessing that it's "they at least do so unless revenue management gets to the room first."
Click to expand...

I don't know the specifics of revenue management for this train, but Arrow does not automatically resell a canceled room at the original bucket. It sells at whatever would be the prevailing fare for that level of availability (meaning, if there's 1 roomette left, it will sell at $X). How revenue management specifically handles things is beyond my area of expertise, but one possibility is that for what's generally a low travel period, a late cancellation may result in a room going unsold. Therefore, they set rates to a lower bucket to increase the chance that a late cancel will resell.

I'll agree that it probably would have made sense to shut down inventory so that they could start rebooking folks off the cancelled trains, but I believe that's actually a different group that does that vs. revenue management (not that it makes a difference).


----------



## Guestlsa

Just reported that some trains are cancel . Wow sandy wants to visit all places at 1 time


----------



## amamba

Stay safe everyone! It is like the calm before the storm right now by me. Gloomy and gray and the wind is starting to pick up a little.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

amamba said:


> Stay safe everyone! It is like the calm before the storm right now by me. Gloomy and gray and the wind is starting to pick up a little.


Same here in Northern VA.


----------



## BOS-T-Time

Hello all,

This storm is unprecedented in size and nature, with it being a tropical force (Hurricane) combined with a cold low (Nor'easter) barreling at the coast from almost due east. This storm is going to be extremely dangerous for areas from North Carolina through Maine with storm surge predicted for Long Island and New York City to be 4-12 feet and winds at Hurricane force. I can not see the NEC operating during the height of this storm especially along the CT and RI coast, or any other train in the North East for that matter. Along with the winds covering a 900 mile wide path, the rain is a major concern with upwards of 10" predicted for parts of PA, NJ, DE, and NY. Please everyone be safe and listen to the forecasts as this is a very dangerous storm. I have two friends that are meterologists and they have never seen anything like this, and are warning everyone to be prepared for a period of no electricity.

I hope Amtrak and the host railroads are able to keep the infrastructure clear and up and running for as long as possibly is safe and back in working order as soon as the storm passes. I know I had my first overnight LD train planned for weeks using points leaving on Tuesday but I went ahead and cancelled it because I do not think conditions are going to be good to get from BOS to NYP.

BOS-T-Time

PS. the MTA is shutting everything down at 19:00 this evening per the Governor of N.Y.


----------



## SubwayNut

The MTA here in New York City just said their suspending all Subway, Bus, Metro-North, and LIRR service effective 7pm this evening in preparation for the storm. The big fear about the storm from the serge is that salt water could enter any and all underwater tunnels. As part of the MTA release alert:



> The Metro-North suspension also will affect all service on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor.


This means that Amtrak service between New York and New Haven has already been officially canceled effective 7pm! I assume that also means Empire Service Trains.


----------



## jis

It is very likely that very little will be moving on the NEC morning of Tuesday. Things might start getting better late in the day.

Mayor Bloomburg just announced that all of MTA including LIRR and MNRR will be shutting down starting at 7pm Sunday and will remain shut on Monday. NJT Rail, Bus and Light Rail operations will be shut down starting sometime late evening Sunday and will remain closed on Monday. Decision about Tuesday to be made on Monday.

I expect Amtrak will announce its full disposition for Monday sometime late this afternoon or early evening.


----------



## afigg

jis said:


> It is very likely that very little will be moving on the NEC morning of Tuesday. Things might start getting better late in the day.


Given that the forecast has the center of the storm over SE PA at 8 AM Tuesday and slowly moving to the NW and North through Wednesday, we may see the NEC entirely shut down through Wednesday, except perhaps for some limited traffic on the Boston end.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.


----------



## June the Coach Rider

I just hope all fellow AUs stay safe and indoors, going out to watch the huge waves or to watch the wind blow is just asking for trouble. Stay inside with your train books, nice hot coffee and someone or something to cuddle with.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

June said:


> I just hope all fellow AUs stay safe and indoors, going out to watch the huge waves or to watch the wind blow is just asking for trouble. Stay inside with your train books, nice hot coffee and someone or something to cuddle with.


Better yet pack all essential supplies and papers and head well west out of the area. Hopefully Amtrak will move all equipment out and to high ground in upstate New York or elsewhere as well.


----------



## CHamilton

Google's "crisis map" is up, with information about

Storm: Current location

Storm: Forecast track

Storm: 3-day forecast cone

Cloud imagery

Weather radar (US)

High wind probability

Public alerts

Hurricane evacuation routes (US)

Traffic conditions

Webcams

Active emergency shelters (US)

and other information. Hmm, no "train cancellation" category.


----------



## MrFSS

Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.


----------



## CHamilton

Amtrak posts on Facebook:

We will be announcing additional cancellations due to Hurricane Sandy shortly. We thank you for your patience.


----------



## gatelouse

@AmtrakNEC reports no NEC or Keystone service on Monday. Looks like 30 is also canceled for Tuesday (shows sold out for WAS-RKV) though not officially announced yet.


----------



## amamba

MrFSS said:


> Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.


They have closed the public schools in my town for tomorrow. And we are not even that close to the storm. (Rhode Island) I know we will be affected but we aren't looking at the same kind of danger as folks farther south.


----------



## CHamilton

> Amtrak Northeast Corridor Services Canceled on Monday, October 29
> 
> by Amtrak on Sunday, October 28, 2012 at 11:57am ·
> 
> All Acela Express, Northeast Regional, Keystone and Shuttle services are canceled for trains originating on that date. Also Empire Service, Adirondack, Vermonter, Ethan Allen and Pennsylvanian train services suspended, along with overnight services to and from the East Coast.
> 
> The predicted landfall of Hurricane Sandy, with associated high winds and heavy rains in the mid-Atlantic region, combined with emergency declarations in several states, has led Amtrak to cancel Northeast Corridor service north of New York starting at 7:00 p.m. on Sunday, October 28, and to cancel nearly all service on the eastern seaboard on Monday, October 29.
> 
> All Acela Express, Northeast Regional, Keystone and Shuttle services are canceled for trains originating on that date. Also Empire Service, Adirondack, Vermonter, Ethan Allenand Pennsylvanian train services are suspended, along with the overnight Auto Train, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Lake Shore Limited, Palmetto and Silver Meteor trains.
> 
> Exceptions: The Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64), will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada and Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y., rather than originating and terminating at New York City; the Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80), will operate only between Charlotte and Raleigh rather than originating and terminating in New York City; the Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will operate only between Jacksonville, Tampa and Miami, Fla., rather than originating and terminating in New York City. Piedmont service (Trains 73-76) within North Carolina will operate normally.
> 
> Amtrak Thruway Bus Services associated with these canceled trains are also suspended. Alternate transportation for canceled services is not available.
> 
> Dates for service restorations are pending. Amtrak will update this statement by 6:00 p.m. ET on Monday, October 29, or as needed.
> 
> While Amtrak will be contacting passengers who have provided information in their reservations, customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on the Facebook.com/Amtrak andTwitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visitAmtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## Anderson

Ok, I'm really glad that I placed my bet on Sunday rather than Monday.

A particularly...interesting thought: I'm _very_ glad I opted to do Canada last weekend instead of this weekend (I'd considered both options at different times). Not only did I get the dome car, but I actually got home!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

MrFSS said:


> Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.


I imagine the same thing they do when there's a big snow storm predicted. Probably arrive at the hospitals, etc early or are picked up by people driving SUVs/Trucks/Etc that can navigate the poor driving conditions.

I work for a company tha processes bill payments and it's a 24/7 operation. I have not heard yet if they will close tomorrow. I sent my boss an email saying if they don't need me (my work is not 24/7 stuff) I will take a personal day and stay home. I live less than 10 mins from the office so if they need me to help out with anything, I told him to let me know.


----------



## Ryan

MrFSS said:


> Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.


School districts here in Maryland are starting to close for tomorrow.
Essential employees will usually stay at/near work for the duration. My Dad is a shift supervisor in the central control center for PEPCO - he's going in early/mid-day tomorrow and will stay at work until the service restoration is complete. They've got a block of hotel rooms reserved up the street and a bunkroom on site if things get too bad.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

The winds are picking up here in ALX, but no rain - yet. The Feds have not said what they are doing for tomorrow. The city of ALX has declared a state of emergency


----------



## crescent2

Praying for the people and animals in the Northeast, stay safe.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Parts of Delaware have been inundated with rain already. Luckily, for me, it's the middle/southern part. We've had off and on rain today and it seems to be steady, but light, right now. It's been breezy for a couple of days already. Might be time to seal up the cat's windoor and move the folding table they use (on the deck) when using the windoor indoors now. They will not be happy cats for the next 36 hours or so.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

MrFSS said:


> Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.


I believe they are asked to report to work before the storm hits, and stay on-site throughout.

Our local power company has cancelled all employees vacations for this week, and everyone is expected to show up for work.

I have gotten email from our local power company, cable company, and elected officals, notifiying us that a major storm is heading this way.

I am charging all my devices, and have the ice maker chugging away,

Our schools have not announced they will close yet (I am sure they eventually will), but they have announced that they are stocking food and water; enough for a week. They also serve as emergency shelters.


----------



## deimos

Just wanted to add that CSX seems to be winding operations down - at least in my area. I live near CSX line by BWI and usually hear trains as they pass through the area. Its been very quiet today with just an occassional train! Surprisingly - no rain yet....wind is picking up.

Realizing travel plans for many have been already been disrupted...I hope folks are able to make the best of circumstances.

Cheers!


----------



## CHamilton

Associated Press story on Amtrak cancellations is making the rounds, even here in the Northwest.

Amtrak cancels northeast service ahead of storm



> by Associated Press
> 
> Posted on October 28, 2012 at 12:30 PM
> 
> WILMINGTON, Del. -- Amtrak says it is canceling service across the northeastern U.S. on Monday as Hurricane Sandy threatens to create a wet, windy mess in the region.
> 
> Amtrak said in a news release Sunday that it was canceling all service north of New York at 7 p.m. Nearly all service across the Eastern Seaboard will be canceled starting Monday.


----------



## afigg

deimos said:


> Realizing travel plans for many have been already been disrupted...I hope folks are able to make the best of circumstances.
> 
> Cheers!


I think I am making the best of circumstances! I'm writing this sitting in the Dome car on the back of the #50 Cardinal on the Buckingham Branch in VA. Booked a round trip from DC to Charlottesville on the Cardinal weeks ago. Getting it in just ahead of the storm. Took #51 WAS-CVS earlier today; lot of people got on at WAS and a respectable turnover at CVS. #50 was over a hour late into CVS. Pulled in with the Dome car on it! I had not thought to check the schedule; just pure dumb luck.

The Dome car is open, but there are only a handful of people in it. The rest of the people in the Amfleet IIs have no idea what is on the back of the train. So I'm sitting in the Dome car watching the Virginia countryside pass by under grey threatening skies in the late afternoon, the leaves past peak and falling off, but the autumn colors remain.

Made my weekend. Now to get home and finish prep for the storm.


----------



## jis

afigg said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is very likely that very little will be moving on the NEC morning of Tuesday. Things might start getting better late in the day.
> 
> 
> 
> Given that the forecast has the center of the storm over SE PA at 8 AM Tuesday and slowly moving to the NW and North through Wednesday, we may see the NEC entirely shut down through Wednesday, except perhaps for some limited traffic on the Boston end.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. Also it will depend on how much the infrastructure is damaged. For example if there are washouts again at Trenton, that will need to be repaired before full service can be restored. There are several other places on the NEC that are prone to washouts in heavy flood situations.

Trenton is right in the middle of the 5" - 10" rain potential area.


----------



## CHamilton

Nice, afigg! Your timing is good, since there's now a blizzard warning for West Virginia starting at noon on Monday. I wouldn't be surprised if it affects the Cardinal.


----------



## jis

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.


I think some people are smoking something potent too  Why stop at 40'. Why not 60'. Would be way more impressive.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.
> 
> 
> 
> I think some people are smoking something potent too  Why stop at 40'. Why not 60'. Would be way more impressive.
Click to expand...

I guess you haven't listened to your Governor.


----------



## June the Coach Rider

amamba said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> They have closed the public schools in my town for tomorrow. And we are not even that close to the storm. (Rhode Island) I know we will be affected but we aren't looking at the same kind of danger as folks farther south.
Click to expand...

Just because the center of the storm is not coming directly to Rhode Island, you are going to get hammered with hurricane force winds and storm surge. Please don't take this storm lightly.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

From this ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49589870 ) article entitled "Sandy and storm surge pose 'worst case scenario'":



> National Hurricane Center Director Rick Knabb said Hurricane Sandy's size means some coastal parts of New York and New Jersey may see water rise from 6 to 11 feet from surge and waves. The rest of the coast north of Virginia can expect 4 to 8 feet of surge.
> 
> The full moon Monday will add 2 to 3 inches to the storm surge in New York, Masters said.


----------



## afigg

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.
> 
> 
> 
> I think some people are smoking something potent too  Why stop at 40'. Why not 60'. Would be way more impressive.
Click to expand...

Something to consider about worse case scenarios. They can happen. Not often - which is why they are the low probility worse case - but they can occur. See the Japanese tsunami. Which exceeded the worse case scenario that was in the specs when the nuclear power plant was built.


----------



## SubwayNut

From the MTA and Metro-North (again) regarding Amtrak service (since they control the tracks and dispatching):



> The last Amtrak trains to operate on the New Haven Line will be 7:05 PM Acela out of Penn Station, N.Y. and the 7:18 PM southbound out of New Haven.


NJT isn't operating last trips except on the Atlantic City until Midnight to 2am unlike the MTA and their supposed to get more of the direct hit. SEPTA is being closed at the 'end of service' this evening as well.

Just got off the subway and home for the storm, signs are up, saw trains being moved to be stored underground, it's definitely going to start being shut down starting in an hour. Was walking across Central Park earlier and got kicked out at 4:30, they originally said the park would close at 5pm but decided to close an hour early, barriers are over all the entrances.

Both Metro-North and the LIRR have posts that the main reason their suspending service so early is to remove all of the crossing gates, the LIRR even busituted service out to Montaulk to get a head start on their 295 grade crossings with a total of 690 crossing gates themselves. I am staying in Manhattan but not at all worried, I live at the tallest natural point in Manhattan.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

The Feds have given non-essential personel in the DC area the day off on Monday, as offices will be closed. Only 'emergency' personel are required to work.

Schools and universities are closed throughout the region.

The winds have ebbed for the moment and there is an eerie calm as darkness closes in around us here in Northern VA. Halloween is coming early this year. 

EDIT 6:30: It just started raining here. I checked my local weather. They have increased out top wind gusts to 65mph, and this is now for an extended period of time. This is going to be one wild ride. Is it next weekend yet?


----------



## jis

OlympianHiawatha said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.
> 
> 
> 
> I think some people are smoking something potent too  Why stop at 40'. Why not 60'. Would be way more impressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you haven't listened to your Governor.
Click to expand...

Which state's Governor are your efering to? New Jersey? New York? Pennsylvania or Connecticut? What did he say? Of course Governor's are not immune from smoking something either. But I have not heard a credible forecaster say anything about 40'.

The storm surge around New York is projected to be 6' to 11'. Up the Hudson River possibly a little lower. But it will wipe out MNRR (and Amtrak) near Spuyten Duyvil and Croton for sure.


----------



## jis

NJTransit "last trains" are recorded in this announcement:

http://www.njtransit.com/sa/sa_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=CustomerNoticeTo&NoticeId=2299


----------



## Phil S

To predicted storm surge you need to add wind waves. Probably only a couple of feet in harbor areas, but a couple of feet is a lot of water. And the wind waves will be much higher along open areas like NJ coast and south shore of Long Island.


----------



## Ryan

WMATA has just announced a full system shutdown tomorrow. Buses, trains, everything. Last time that happened was Isabelle in 2003.


----------



## gatelouse

Try booking anything along the NEC for Tuesday. Everything is blocked as Sold Out. LDTs south of WAS are also blocked out, save 19. 79 only open for bookings RGH-CLT. Looks like Tuesday's situation may mirror Monday's.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the worst case scenario models have a 40 foot wall of water driving into the Sound as well as up the East and Hudson Rivers. While that is an extreme scenario, that should be enough to encourage _*anyone*_ in the City or Long Island to get out and head inland.
> 
> 
> 
> I think some people are smoking something potent too  Why stop at 40'. Why not 60'. Would be way more impressive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you haven't listened to your Governor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which state's Governor are your efering to? New Jersey? New York? Pennsylvania or Connecticut? What did he say? Of course Governor's are not immune from smoking something either. But I have not heard a credible forecaster say anything about 40'.
> 
> The storm surge around New York is projected to be 6' to 11'. Up the Hudson River possibly a little lower. But it will wipe out MNRR (and Amtrak) near Spuyten Duyvil and Croton for sure.
Click to expand...

I believe based on your profile Mr. Christie is your Governor and he gave a ravenous presser this afternoon in his classic style that makes him so popular. The worst case scenarios come from some friends who work at the National Weather Service which is just a few blocks from my house. While they are extreme worst case scenarios, they obviously do not want the media picking up on them either. But if making them public will get people to rethink and get out of harm's potential way, they should go public.


----------



## Phil S

Phil S said:


> To predicted storm surge you need to add wind waves. Probably only a couple of feet in harbor areas, but a couple of feet is a lot of water. And the wind waves will be much higher along open areas like NJ coast and south shore of Long Island.


I just looked carefully at the latest NWS warnings and it's a lot worse than I realized:

breaking waves are expected to

build to 15 to 20 ft along ocean facing shorelines by late

Monday into Monday night. The destructive waves on top of the

storm surge will cause significant damage to coastal

infrastructure nearest to sea level. At the same time... 5 to 10

ft waves are possible along exposed eastern and northeastern

facing portions of Long Island Sound... Peconic Bay... and New

York Harbor.

So, it won't be 40 ft and it won't be a wall of water but it's going to be bad.

Stay safe, folks.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

OlympianHiawatha said:


> The worst case scenarios come from some friends who work at the National Weather Service which is just a few blocks from my house.


You live in Silver Spring, MD!?! Where? Until a few years ago I lived a few blocks from NOAA's (NWS is under NOAA) headquarters in Silver Spring, so I know the area quite well.


----------



## jis

Redacted


----------



## Ryan

The Davy Crockett said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst case scenarios come from some friends who work at the National Weather Service which is just a few blocks from my house.
> 
> 
> 
> You live in Silver Spring, MD!?! Where? Until a few years ago I lived a few blocks from NOAA's (NWS is under NOAA) headquarters in Silver Spring, so I know the area quite well.
Click to expand...

His location says Norman, OK, which is the home of NOAA's Storm Prediction Center.


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe based on your profile Mr. Christie is your Governor and he gave a ravenous presser this afternoon in his classic style that makes him so popular. The worst case scenarios come from some friends who work at the National Weather Service which is just a few blocks from my house. While they are extreme worst case scenarios, they obviously do not want the media picking up on them either. But if making them public will get people to rethink and get out of harm's potential way, they should go public.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah the Christie generated nonsense. we are all quite used to it so we don't even notice it anymore.  No wonder I missed it
> 
> You see to be a Governor of NJ, irrespective of party affiliation you have to be a master bovine scatology artist. Just IMHO of course. Afterall I get to vote for them and then suffer through them.
Click to expand...

I watched the press conference, and it was commonsense advice aimed at an audience that sometimes lacks commonsense. I have a good nose for BS, and there was none.


----------



## jis

PRR 60 said:


> I watched the press conference, and it was commonsense advice aimed at an audience that sometimes lacks commonsense. I have a good nose for BS, and there was none.


Actually I completely misunderstood Olympian's message and responded based on the misunderstanding. I apologize for the uncalled for criticism which was misdirected in the first place. So I redacted my message. So now the only record of that is in your message 

However, more seriously, there is very good reason to not talk abuout outlandish edge case speculative scnearios, since it does no enhance the public's confidence in those making such predictions which mostly don't come to pass. Indeed there was quite a bit of skepticism this time around because Irene worked out to be an under-performer compared to its billing in NY city. That was part of the reason that the Mayor delayed announcement of the evacuation of Zone A this time, because he faced criticism last time of being too quick on the trigger, of course driving the serious forecasters batty this time in the pricess.


----------



## jis

gatelouse said:


> Try booking anything along the NEC for Tuesday. Everything is blocked as Sold Out. LDTs south of WAS are also blocked out, save 19. 79 only open for bookings RGH-CLT. Looks like Tuesday's situation may mirror Monday's.


The default appears to be indeed to keep everything suspended on Tuesday too. I guess if things really improve more than expected it is easier to start running something than saying that you will run stuff and then having to stop running. There would probably be some significant issues of positioning equipment and crew, specially getting crews to needed locations while roads are not cleared of debris etc. too. This was a huge problem after Irene and the October snowstorm last year.


----------



## Ryan

The MTA just posted some great pictures of the shutdown at Grand Central.

This one is my favorite:





033 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## amamba

June said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you guys seeing that local businesses and schools are announcing they will be closed while all this is going on? Wonder what essential services employees do about getting to work, hospitals, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> They have closed the public schools in my town for tomorrow. And we are not even that close to the storm. (Rhode Island) I know we will be affected but we aren't looking at the same kind of danger as folks farther south.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because the center of the storm is not coming directly to Rhode Island, you are going to get hammered with hurricane force winds and storm surge. Please don't take this storm lightly.
Click to expand...

They are predicting sustained winds of 35 mph and gusts of up to 60 mph. That is NOT hurricane force winds. That would be tropical storm force winds. Plus there is a hurricane barrier in Providence and I live on a giant hill.

I am not taking it lightly, but there is a distinction. I think its completely appropriate to say that I will not be receiving as big of a hint as those in other area.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

Ryan said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst case scenarios come from some friends who work at the National Weather Service which is just a few blocks from my house.
> 
> 
> 
> You live in Silver Spring, MD!?! Where? Until a few years ago I lived a few blocks from NOAA's (NWS is under NOAA) headquarters in Silver Spring, so I know the area quite well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His location says Norman, OK, which is the home of NOAA's Storm Prediction Center.
Click to expand...

That is correct and they opened a beautiful new state of the art research facility a few years ago. Between that and parts of the original facility on North Base plenty of interesting research is going on, much of it conducted by Graduate and even Undergraduate students at the University of Oklahoma. One of my friends there was part of the team that developed the software that enables folks to be able to view various radar feeds on Windows and Mac computers. Needless to say these folks love their computers and the models they create with them.


----------



## jebr

I find the "unintended consequences" quite interesting. Due to the shutdown, there's no service anywhere on the CL or LSL. I would think the LSL could operate to Albany...the Maple Leaf is doing so. Also, it would seem as though the CL could operate out to Pittsburgh without too much worry. Right now there's no train service from CHI to PGH, ALB, or even CLE. (Pardon me if my abbreviations are wrong.)

Of course, these things happen when the only service to many cities is LD trains.


----------



## Blackwolf

This is about a 10.0 in the worst-case-scenario rating for a LD train traveler with a trip that involves the East Coast in any way shape or form for tomorrow and possibly later this week.

So, a question: If you happened to be booked on the Capitol Limited from Washington DC, leaving Tuesday, in sleeper and have a connection in Chicago on Wednseday to the Westbound California Zephyr also in sleeper, are you truly S*** Out of Luck? My gut says Yes. Considering that no other travel options are realistically available (airports are closing down too) just what does a traveler do? Amtrak's only known offered options right now are either Refund/Voucher or rescheduling. And we all know that, at this point, you're never going to nab a sleeper and will likely deal with a sardine-like coach on all trains east of Chicago for the next week or more. Does anyone know if Amtrak is distrubuting hotel vouchers for stranded travelers?

What a mess...


----------



## CHamilton

Empty train stations in New York.

http://allthingsd.co...empty-new-york/

Oh, and the stock exchanges are closed. This feels like a creepy movie.


----------



## Nathanael

Blackwolf said:


> This is about a 10.0 in the worst-case-scenario rating for a LD train traveler with a trip that involves the East Coast in any way shape or form for tomorrow and possibly later this week.


This is the worst case weather scenario for the entire Northeastern US. Probably worse than the Floods of '38. At least, I don't want to know about a worse scenario (we may discover a worse scenario if global warming goes unchecked; the bizarre way Hurricame Sandy developed is largely due to global warming).



> So, a question: If you happened to be booked on the Capitol Limited from Washington DC, leaving Tuesday, in sleeper and have a connection in Chicago on Wednseday to the Westbound California Zephyr also in sleeper, are you truly S*** Out of Luck? My gut says Yes. Considering that no other travel options are realistically available (airports are closing down too) just what does a traveler do?


Hunker down. Dangerous weather actually extends into Ohio (high winds) and the hurricane/nor'easter is headed for upstate NY on Wednesday -- don't be surprised if the Maple Leaf is shut down in a day or two.

People should have left the East Coast last week. For the next few days, people on the East Coast simply should not be travelling.

I feel a bit sorrier for people between Charlotte and New Orleans or between Jacksonville and Raleigh; the weather is not especially bad that far south (as you can tell since the Piedmont is running), but their trains are cancelled anyway.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

CHamilton said:


> Oh, and the stock exchanges are closed. This feels like a creepy movie.


Just the "floor". I heard electronic exchanges will be available.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain

Hi.

Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about the Cardinal running.

I just came back from KY from my Grandmother's funeral and now am stranded here in Cincinnati at my parents' house. We were going to take the LSL out of Toledo on Tuesday, but my friend Ms. Julie called on Sunday and said that there had been a service cancellation.

When I called Amtrak, the agent was not aware of cancellations for Tuesday as she had been selling tickets all day on the LSL. I explained to her that I think the reason for my cancellation was because the LSL actually originates out of Chicago on Monday (today) and that all LSL service was cancelled on that day; thus, no train to arrive in Toledo.

So, right now I am booked to leave on the LSL on Wednesday morning to South Station in Boston. I booked a back-up flight on Delta last night to leave out tomorrow morning (just in case Amtrak isnt running on Wednesday even), but I just saw on the Delta website that my flight had been cancelled for tomorrow morning as well.

I refuse to fly on anything but a nonstop because unfortunately everywhere Delta goes to get me to Boston there is a huge chance of being stranded there. Better to be stranded at my folks' house than at an airport!

I am just wondering if I can save myself a trip to Toledo if the Cardinal might run on Wednesday right here out of Cincy.

If anyone has any info. that would be great.

Personally, I don't think it will if there will be a blizzard in the mountains!! 

Thanks!

-- Jackie

edited: Just saw on the Amtrak website that the Cardinal is sold out for Wednesday -- Is that code for not running or just no seats????


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

Ryan said:


> The MTA just posted some great pictures of the shutdown at Grand Central.


Seems like a good opportunity to do some serious cleaning of the public spaces. :giggle:


----------



## jis

AmtrakBlue said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and the stock exchanges are closed. This feels like a creepy movie.
> 
> 
> 
> Just the "floor". I heard electronic exchanges will be available.
Click to expand...

This is what the top banner says at fidelity.com:



> U.S. stock trading will be closed on Monday and possibly Tuesday in response to Hurricane Sandy. Normal market hours are expected on Wednesday. Fixed income markets will be open until noon on Monday to accommodate the T-Bill auction.


Of course electronic trading can still take place, but the standard "market" is closed.


----------



## jis

Flood protection for Penn Station - this one at the entry to Penn Station from teh West Side Yard







Similar barriers are going up all over the system in the subway system at critical points to protect tunnels too.

I understand that all trains have beene vacuated from the West Side Yard to safer places on the island. Quite a bit of main line trackage is being used as train storage for the duration.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

While stocks are not trading. commodities including gasoline are and RBOB Futures are skyrocketing due to the storm. It seems 6% of America's refining capacity is now under the gun along with the infrastructure, including rails that move that fuel.


----------



## VentureForth

Are there no evacuation trains being run? Sorry if mentioned already...


----------



## jis

VentureForth said:


> Are there no evacuation trains being run? Sorry if mentioned already...


AFAIK no. Specially where tunnels are involved, it is hard to run trains on tracks where flood barriers are getting set up.

Nothing has run on the M&E that goes by my window, not even a positioning move, since late last night. I think they are all tucked down.

Don't know about the NEC though. NJCL will probably be under water between Perth Amboy and South Amboy later this evening during the next high tide


----------



## jis

OlympianHiawatha said:


> While stocks are not trading. commodities including gasoline are and RBOB Futures are skyrocketing due to the storm. It seems 6% of America's refining capacity is now under the gun along with the infrastructure, including rails that move that fuel.


Stocks are trading electronically too. The trading floor is close at NYSE.

Isn't quite a bit of the Commodities Market also in Chicago?

As far as NYMEX goes, same as the Stock Market....



> The headquarters of the CME Group’s New York Mercantile Exchange lies in New York’s mandatory evacuation area. As a result, the New York trading floor will be closed on Monday, but electronic trading will go ahead.


----------



## jhjr

It looks like the northbound Silver Meteor was stopped in Washington DC and now the nb Crescent is there too. Any chance they might try to run either one of these southbound out of Washington DC in the coming days?


----------



## afigg

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Just wondering if anyone had heard anything about the Cardinal running.
> 
> ...
> 
> I am just wondering if I can save myself a trip to Toledo if the Cardinal might run on Wednesday right here out of Cincy.
> 
> If anyone has any info. that would be great.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it will if there will be a blizzard in the mountains!!


I would say that the odds of the Cardinal running through CIN and WV on Wednesday are nil. The forecast is for heavy, wet snow at the higher elevations in WV, perhaps 1 to 2 feet in some places. The Cardinal does not run through the high elevations, but there could be heavy snow on the Cardinal route. This storm will knock trees and power lines down over a vast area, including WV and VA. Likely to take days to clear the tracks and restore the signals for the rural Amtrak routes in VA, WV, PA.


----------



## jis

jhjr said:


> It looks like the northbound Silver Meteor was stopped in Washington DC and now the nb Crescent is there too. Any chance they might try to run either one of these southbound out of Washington DC in the coming days?


AFAIK not on Tuesday, and so far the Wednesday service appears to be from New York. I am sure there will be no final decision on Wednesday until sometime on Tuesday. The final plans for Tuesday will probably be announce early afternoon today.

As of 10:30am EDT Monday

* Sandy is now a 90mph storm. The pressure has dropped to 943, so it is now the lowest pressure in recorded history to come ashore in the New York area.*

Storm surge estimates at Bridgeport CT and Port Jefferson NJ both on Long Island Sound, are now at 14'


----------



## The Davy Crockett

For the Cardinal, this is what the NWS is saying about WV:



> WVZ035>038-046-047-291830-/O.CON.KRLX.BZ.W.0001.121029T1600Z-121031T2000Z/
> 
> RALEIGH-FAYETTE-NICHOLAS-WEBSTER-POCAHONTAS-RANDOLPH-
> 
> INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...BECKLEY...OAK HILL...FAYETTEVILLE...
> 
> MONTGOMERY...SUMMERSVILLE...RICHWOOD...CRAIGSVILLE...COWEN...
> 
> MARLINTON...ELKINS
> 
> 625 AM EDT MON OCT 29 2012
> 
> ...BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM NOON TODAY TO 4 PM EDT
> 
> WEDNESDAY...
> 
> * LOCATIONS...VERY ELEVATION DEPENDENT WITH THE BEST CHANCES
> 
> ACROSS HIGH TERRAIN...BUT CAN NOT BE RULED OUT IN THE VALLEYS.
> 
> * HAZARD TYPES...HEAVY WET SNOW...AND STRONG GUSTY WINDS.
> 
> * SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...RANGING FROM 1 TO 6 INCHES BELOW 2000
> 
> FEET...TO 1 TO 3 FEET ABOVE 3000 FEET.
> 
> * WINDS...INCREASING THIS AFTERNOON WITH GUSTS OF 35 TO 45 MPH.
> 
> SOME OF THE HIGHEST RIDGES COULD GUST TO NEAR 50 MPH.
> 
> * TIMING...PERIODS OF SNOW...MIXED WITH RAIN FOR THE VALLEYS...
> 
> WILL INCREASE IN INTENSITY DURING THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING.
> 
> THE BRUNT OF THE STORM OCCURS OVERNIGHT TONIGHT AND ON TUESDAY.
> 
> * IMPACTS...THE HEAVY WET SNOW MAY BRING DOWN TREE LIMBS...
> 
> CAUSING POWER OUTAGES OR FLUCTUATIONS. SNOW LOADING...OR THE
> 
> WEIGHT OF THE SNOW...MAY CAUSE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE...INCLUDING
> 
> COLLAPSING ROOFS. THE COMBINATION OF SNOW AND WIND WOULD LEAD
> 
> TO BLOWING SNOW AND REDUCED VISIBILITY.


Not looking good for the next while.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

Here in ALX things are starting to go downhill with high winds - but nothing like is forecast for later today and tonight - and heavy rains.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

We've had rain & wind gusts all morning. One heavy cell has moved west/south. Philly weather is saying the worst will be between 2 pm today & 8 am tomorrow. I'm about 1-1/2 hours southwest of Philly.


----------



## Ryan

Not at all Amtrak related, but this is too cool a picture not to share:


----------



## yarrow

that is a great picture, thanks. it's great getting the updates you easterners are giving. good luck


----------



## MrFSS

Ryan said:


> Not at all Amtrak related, but this is too cool a picture not to share:


Place on FB that talks about this. Says these guys haven't missed a step since 1937.


----------



## jhjr

Lynchburg, VA TV station is reporting Amtrak station closed Tuesday and Charlotte, NC newspaper is reporting no Amtrak service north of Raleigh on Tuesday.

http://www.wset.com/story/19937710/sandy-causes-some-travel-cancellations-in-lynchburg

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/10/29/3630574/sandy-halts-some-travel-from-charlotte.html


----------



## CHamilton

Hurricane Sandy Request from FEMA: Text and Facebook, Don’t Talk



> Our friends over at the Federal Emergency Management Agency have a request – stay off your phones. At least refrain from putting them up to your ear and making a call.
> 
> Knowing that texts and Facebook/Twitter updates hog less precious bandwidth than a voice call, FEMA has asked people to keep their talking to a minimum. If you need to tell your loved ones you are ok, shoot them a text or update your Facebook status.


...and post here at AU, too. Your friends here want to know that you're okay.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Great Picture Ryan!  Having lived in the WAS Area I always wondered how these folks stood the Summers let alone the Winters!

Storms such as the current one are really Tough! With Veteran's Day on the Way it's a great Reminder to All of Us that we need to Remember these Real Heroes that Sacrifice So Much for Us!!


----------



## jis

Have you seen the projected wave heights in the Great Lakes? 22' to 25'? WOW!. Also the flood alerts appear to cover the area through which the Amtrak route from Chicago East passes. Any idea how high the tracks are relative to Lake Michigan? Apparently the north to south prevailing direction of the storm winds will pile up a lot of water against the south shore of Lake Michigan causing very significant flooding.


----------



## trainman74

Ryan said:


> Not at all Amtrak related, but this is too cool a picture not to share:


Note that this picture is actually from September, nothing to do with Hurricane Sandy.


----------



## Ryan

Well how about that.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain

The Davy Crockett said:


> For the Cardinal, this is what the NWS is saying about WV:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WVZ035>038-046-047-291830-/O.CON.KRLX.BZ.W.0001.121029T1600Z-121031T2000Z/
> 
> RALEIGH-FAYETTE-NICHOLAS-WEBSTER-POCAHONTAS-RANDOLPH-
> 
> INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...BECKLEY...OAK HILL...FAYETTEVILLE...
> 
> MONTGOMERY...SUMMERSVILLE...RICHWOOD...CRAIGSVILLE...COWEN...
> 
> MARLINTON...ELKINS
> 
> 625 AM EDT MON OCT 29 2012
> 
> ...BLIZZARD WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM NOON TODAY TO 4 PM EDT
> 
> WEDNESDAY...
> 
> * LOCATIONS...VERY ELEVATION DEPENDENT WITH THE BEST CHANCES
> 
> ACROSS HIGH TERRAIN...BUT CAN NOT BE RULED OUT IN THE VALLEYS.
> 
> * HAZARD TYPES...HEAVY WET SNOW...AND STRONG GUSTY WINDS.
> 
> * SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...RANGING FROM 1 TO 6 INCHES BELOW 2000
> 
> FEET...TO 1 TO 3 FEET ABOVE 3000 FEET.
> 
> * WINDS...INCREASING THIS AFTERNOON WITH GUSTS OF 35 TO 45 MPH.
> 
> SOME OF THE HIGHEST RIDGES COULD GUST TO NEAR 50 MPH.
> 
> * TIMING...PERIODS OF SNOW...MIXED WITH RAIN FOR THE VALLEYS...
> 
> WILL INCREASE IN INTENSITY DURING THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING.
> 
> THE BRUNT OF THE STORM OCCURS OVERNIGHT TONIGHT AND ON TUESDAY.
> 
> * IMPACTS...THE HEAVY WET SNOW MAY BRING DOWN TREE LIMBS...
> 
> CAUSING POWER OUTAGES OR FLUCTUATIONS. SNOW LOADING...OR THE
> 
> WEIGHT OF THE SNOW...MAY CAUSE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE...INCLUDING
> 
> COLLAPSING ROOFS. THE COMBINATION OF SNOW AND WIND WOULD LEAD
> 
> TO BLOWING SNOW AND REDUCED VISIBILITY.
> 
> 
> 
> Not looking good for the next while.
> 
> Meanwhile, back at the ranch:
> 
> Here in ALX things are starting to go downhill with high winds - but nothing like is forecast for later today and tonight - and heavy rains.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this update re: Cardinal. I just noticed that on Facebook, Amtrak has updated its service cancellations information for service tomorrow and that includes the Cardinal that will run from Chicago to Indianapolis only, so no Cincinnati service and beyond.

I also see that the LSL is still not operating. Here's hoping I can get home Thursday night and that I still have a house to go home to! 

Be safe out there everyone!!!


----------



## CHamilton

Latest Amtrak alert from Facebook. Looks like the one on Amtrak.com is the same.



> Most Amtrak Service in the Northeast Remains Suspended on Tuesday, October 30
> 
> by Amtrak on Monday, October 29, 2012 at 10:44am ·
> 
> Passengers urged to follow developments on Amtrak.com and our Facebook and Twitter sites
> 
> Hurricane Sandy, with associated high winds and heavy rains, combined with emergency declarations in several states, has led Amtrak to cancel all services in the Northeast Corridor through Tuesday, October 30.
> 
> All Acela Express, Northeast Regional, Keystone and Shuttle services are canceled for trains originating on that date. Also Empire Service, Adirondack, Vermonter, Ethan Allenand Pennsylvanian train services are suspended, along with the overnight Auto Train, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Lake Shore Limited, Palmetto and Silver Meteor trains.
> 
> The result is the suspension of all Amtrak service from Boston south to Raleigh, North Carolina, and from the East Coast to Chicago, New Orleans and Florida. Amtrak stations in the affected areas and along the affected routes should be considered closed.
> 
> Exceptions:
> 
> 
> The Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80), will operate only between Charlotte and Raleigh rather than originating and terminating in New York City and Piedmont service (Trains 73-76) within North Carolina will operate normally.
> 
> The Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will operate only between Jacksonville, Tampa and Miami, Fla., rather than originating and terminating in New York City.
> 
> The Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada and Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y., rather than originating and terminating at New York City.
> 
> The Cardinal (Train 50) will operate only between Chicago and Indianapolis, rather than terminating in New York City.
> 
> 
> Amtrak Thruway Bus Services associated with these canceled trains are also suspended. Alternate transportation for canceled services is not available.
> 
> Dates for service restorations are pending. Amtrak will update this statement by 6:00 p.m. ET on Tuesday, October 30, or as needed.
> 
> While Amtrak will be contacting passengers who have provided information in their reservations, customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on the Facebook.com/Amtrak andTwitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visitAmtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## CHamilton

As of now, Google is showing the predicted storm track to go almost exactly over Bear, DE, and just south of Wilmington. Here's wishing the best to AmtrakBlue and others in that area. Let's also hope that the Amtrak maintenance facilities there -- and its rolling stock -- aren't damaged, since we all know that Amtrak doesn't have any to spare.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Don't know why, but there's a song, well the title words, are stuck in my head. Stormy Weather...

So far just minor leak through a window that gave problems last year (which is why I have a tarp under it). I put a rolled towel there to absorb the water which is helping for now. Landlord caulked it after Irene but apparently that didn't hold. The worst winds are just a few hours away.

Bear is about 20 mins southwest of me.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

I've not heard a single train horn in the distance all day. Not that I could hear them over the winds anyway, even if anything was moving through ALX. The trees are swaying wildly, the rains continue to fall, smaller branches thud on the roof from time to time, but so far we are doing okay. Power is still on and no damge as far as I can tell. I'm not going outside to have a look right now! The leaves are mostly off the trees, so that is in our favor.

To no surprise, OPM announced several hours ago that the Fed. Govt. will be closed again tomorrow in the DC region. VRE and Marc have cancelled service Tuesday and Metro will not operate at least in the morning. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge is currently closed.


----------



## amamba

CHamilton said:


> As of now, Google is showing the predicted storm track to go almost exactly over Bear, DE, and just south of Wilmington. Here's wishing the best to AmtrakBlue and others in that area. Let's also hope that the Amtrak maintenance facilities there -- and its rolling stock -- aren't damaged, since we all know that Amtrak doesn't have any to spare.


I think that might be off. My understanding is that the storm center is passing a little farther north rand hitting land over NJ

Nevermind, I forget that when I think "over NJ" that it is actually just east of Delaware. So yes, it might hit NJ first (like Cape May) but then as it heads west hit Delaware. My apologies!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

amamba said:


> Nevermind, I forget that when I think "over NJ" that it is actually just east of Delaware. So yes, it might hit NJ first (like Cape May) but then as it heads west hit Delaware. My apologies!


That's ok. At least you know Delaware is a state and not a city in PA. Yes, I know there is at least one city called Delaware (OH).

They say she just came ashore north of Cape May.


----------



## Railroad Bill

Ohio Report: Winds are really picking up in last hour. Gusting now to around 45-50. A little rain and around 40 degrees all day. Supposed to sustain these winds for at least another 24 hours.

Wishing all of you on the East Coast the best


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Railroad Bill said:


> Ohio Report: Winds are really picking up in last hour. Gusting now to around 45-50. A little rain and around 40 degrees all day. Supposed to sustain these winds for at least another 24 hours.
> 
> Wishing all of you on the East Coast the best


Aren't you glad we wanted to share this historic storm with you?


----------



## The Davy Crockett

AmtrakBlue said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio Report: Winds are really picking up in last hour. Gusting now to around 45-50. A little rain and around 40 degrees all day. Supposed to sustain these winds for at least another 24 hours.
> 
> Wishing all of you on the East Coast the best
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you glad we wanted to share this historic storm with you?
Click to expand...

I think there is plenty of Sandy as to be able to share it with our friends to the west.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

All bridges between Philly & NJ are closed till 2 am and the interstates & Rt 1 in/near Philly are closed also till 2 am. This is when the worst winds are expected to occur around here.

Why does the worst of the weather always have to happen during my bed time??


----------



## pennyk

The_traveler in Rhode Island is without power and internet, however he was able to send a text.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Still have our power, for now. I've been monitoring our power company's outage map and there are outages around us.


----------



## amamba

pennyk said:


> The_traveler in Rhode Island is without power and internet, however he was able to send a text.


Over 100K people in RI without power (luckily I am not one of them). It is apparently winder and worse down by the_traveler than by me in the RI capitol city.


----------



## jis

Just lost power for good I think. We are now allegedly getting gusts of 90mph. Sure sounds like it. I can hear trees cracking falling around us. It is quite surreal!


----------



## DesertRat

Relatives in Virginia tell me they're OK but very waterlogged. One relative lives about one mile from the coast.


----------



## Ryan

Still hanging in here - wind is as bad as it was during the June Derecho, but instead of being over in a few minutes we're getting hours and hours and hours of it.

Power has flickered twice and outages are starting to pile up - hopefully we'll stay up for a while longer.


----------



## johnny.menhennet

I know that this storm is actually having quite an impact. Since I got home at about 3:30, I have been facebook chatting nonstop with all my east coast friends. Three of my friends in Boston have had trees go down in their yards. 1 of these has flickering power. One of my classmates last year who's a freshman at Harvard says there have been plenty of branches coming down. This really is important, even up there. My best friend in New Jersey says things are pretty bad, but full power is still on. Down in Philly, it was surprisingly calm, and then a friend in Northern Virginia was still and has kept power, but it is incredibly wet. Two friends in "the City" both stayed at home, but one lives in the Bronx, and the other in Flushing. Best regards go out to all. It makes me feel guilty that today was 75 and sunny.


----------



## Ryan

That's OK, the shoe will be on the other foot when you have your next earthquake. Or wildfire. Or mudslide...


----------



## AlanB

jebr said:


> I find the "unintended consequences" quite interesting. Due to the shutdown, there's no service anywhere on the CL or LSL. I would think the LSL could operate to Albany...the Maple Leaf is doing so. Also, it would seem as though the CL could operate out to Pittsburgh without too much worry. Right now there's no train service from CHI to PGH, ALB, or even CLE. (Pardon me if my abbreviations are wrong.)


No commissary in Albany, no way to restock the cafe & dinner, no way to get new linens to the train, no crew to staff the train. So no LSL.

And besides, a majority of those riding don't want to go to Albany, they want to go to NY & Boston.


----------



## CHamilton

Ryan said:


> That's OK, the shoe will be on the other foot when you have your next earthquake. Or wildfire. Or mudslide...


Huh! Remind the planners not to invite _*you*_ to the next west coast Gathering! :lol:


----------



## pennyk

Ryan said:


> Still hanging in here - wind is as bad as it was during the June Derecho, but instead of being over in a few minutes we're getting hours and hours and hours of it.
> 
> Power has flickered twice and outages are starting to pile up - hopefully we'll stay up for a while longer.


my sister in Columbia still has power - for now. she consideres herself lucky. i hope your luck and her luck continues.


----------



## johnny.menhennet

Ryan said:


> That's OK, the shoe will be on the other foot when you have your next earthquake. Or wildfire. Or mudslide...


Dealt with more than enough of these. Especially fires. I'm in store for a big earthquake though. I was in the air when the Easter 2010 7.2 hit Mexicali, so the Earth owes me one


----------



## Ryan

pennyk said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still hanging in here - wind is as bad as it was during the June Derecho, but instead of being over in a few minutes we're getting hours and hours and hours of it.
> 
> Power has flickered twice and outages are starting to pile up - hopefully we'll stay up for a while longer.
> 
> 
> 
> my sister in Columbia still has power - for now. she consideres herself lucky. i hope your luck and her luck continues.
Click to expand...

Amen!
If she ends up needing anything, please let me know.


----------



## AlanB

I've still got power here in the city, couple of flickers and the batteries have kicked on twice for a second; but my mom lost power in PA around 5:30 PM today. Winds are whipping around here, but not all that much in the way of rain. All major bridges are closed, that includes the George Washington, Verazanno, Tribrorough, 59th Street, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Tappan Zee, and so on. Only way from the city to NJ right now short of a 2 hour drive north under normal conditions, is the Lincoln Tunnel. The Holland Tunnel is closed, as is the Brooklyn Battery tunnel. Only way to Queens is the Midtown Tunnel.

Smaller bridges between the Bronx & Manhattan remain open as of the last report. Many highways are closed due to flooding or downed trees. The Governor in CT ordered all highways closed several hours ago in his state. No driving except emergency vehicles up in CT.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

I've been watching flashes in the night sky as trees go over onto power lines. The lights have flickered, but they are still on here in ALX. Last report I saw was that there are now over 134,000 customers in the DC region without juice. Its raining hard and blowing harder. I think I may have seen a squirrel doing the backstroke in my back yard as it was growing dark. Or maybe it was the two beers I've had.


----------



## Ryan

AlanB said:


> The Holland Tunnel is closed, as is the Brooklyn Battery tunnel. Only way to Queens is the Midtown Tunnel.


Speaking of the Brooklyn Battery tunnel:





Floodwaters enter Hugh L. Carey Tunnel by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## pennyk

according to NBC, there was a fatality in Queens - a 30 year old man who was hit by a falling tree.


----------



## AlanB

Two more people died in NJ when a tree fell on a car.

And now the big news, not rail related, both JFK and LGA airports have officially closed. Only Newark remains open, even though there are no flights coming or going at EWR.

The reason for LGA & JFK closing? Water on the runways! 

This could be a huge problem as the salt water could knock out all the landing lights and needed stuff for ILS (Instrument Landing System). If that corrosive salt water gets into those lights & cables it could take days before those airports could resume night time operations.


----------



## Ryan

Saw this on the twitter:







Can one of you smart folks tell me where that is?


----------



## Gfoley4

I'm thinking a PATH station maybe?


----------



## Guest

Hoboken PATH


----------



## AlanB

Guest said:


> Hoboken PATH


Correct, that is the PATH Station in Hoboken.

It's right on the Hudson River and often floods


----------



## Blackwolf

I think that's security camera footage from the Titanic subway station. I guess that elevator is out of order!


----------



## The Davy Crockett

There are some amazing pictures here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/regional


----------



## PRR 60

AlanB said:


> Two more people died in NJ when a tree fell on a car.
> 
> And now the big news, not rail related, both JFK and LGA airports have officially closed. Only Newark remains open, even though there are no flights coming or going at EWR.
> 
> The reason for LGA & JFK closing? Water on the runways!
> 
> This could be a huge problem as the salt water could knock out all the landing lights and needed stuff for ILS (Instrument Landing System). If that corrosive salt water gets into those lights & cables it could take days before those airports could resume night time operations.


EWR has closed as well.


----------



## AlanB

Current reports now say EWR just closed too.

Midtown Tunnel also just closed. There is now no way to go east from Manhattan to the Island of Long Island, which includes Queens & Brooklyn. Also cannot go to the Bronx either. Everyone on Long Island island, and Staten Island are now trapped with no way off the islands.

They're reporting 2 to 3 feet of water already in the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.

Only way to get off Manhattan now is Lincoln Tunnel to NJ and a few small bridges to the Bronx from Upper Manhattan.


----------



## Texan Eagle

Saw some incredible pictures being shared on Twitter and Instagram. Two samples-






_Entire Lower Manhattan in the dark after lights go out_

While everything else has gone dark, Empire State Building shines bright!


----------



## AlanB

Texan Eagle said:


> Saw some incredible pictures being shared on Twitter and Instagram. Two samples-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Entire Lower Manhattan in the dark after lights go out_
> 
> While everything else has gone dark, Empire State Building shines bright!


They did that to protect the underground power cables & transformers. They turned off power from basically 34th Street south deliberately to protect equipment.

There are reports of cars floating on 20th Street & Avenue C, also known in the past as Alphabet City.


----------



## CHamilton

Alan, it's more than that.



> 250,000 Without Power in Manhattan
> 
> Just as executives of Con Edison finished methodically cutting off power to three relatively small parts of New York City’s power grid on Monday evening, an unforeseen event knocked the lights off for about 250,000 customers across a broad swath of Manhattan.
> 
> At about 8:30 p.m., electricity suddenly stopped flowing to apartments and office buildings from East 39th Street all the way down to the southern tip of the island, said Michael Clendenin, a spokesman for Con Edison.


----------



## PRR 60

AlanB said:


> They did that to protect the underground power cables & transformers. They turned off power from basically 34th Street south deliberately to protect equipment.
> 
> There are reports of cars floating on 20th Street & Avenue C, also known in the past as Alphabet City.


The Manhattan outage is reported to be a failure of an underground transmission line due to water intrusion. In this case it was not a planned outage.


----------



## AlanB

CHamilton said:


> Alan, it's more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 250,000 Without Power in Manhattan
> 
> Just as executives of Con Edison finished methodically cutting off power to three relatively small parts of New York City’s power grid on Monday evening, an unforeseen event knocked the lights off for about 250,000 customers across a broad swath of Manhattan.
> 
> At about 8:30 p.m., electricity suddenly stopped flowing to apartments and office buildings from East 39th Street all the way down to the southern tip of the island, said Michael Clendenin, a spokesman for Con Edison.
Click to expand...

So I missed by 5 blocks.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did that to protect the underground power cables & transformers. They turned off power from basically 34th Street south deliberately to protect equipment.
> 
> There are reports of cars floating on 20th Street & Avenue C, also known in the past as Alphabet City.
> 
> 
> 
> The Manhattan outage is reported to be a failure of an underground transmission line due to water intrusion. In this case it was not a planned outage.
Click to expand...

Bill,

I suppose that they've also had a failure, but ConEd had been warning for hours that they would deliberately shut down power on southern Manhattan as the water rose. They even did robo calls to people in the affected area to warn them.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Now it is reported that 270,000 customers are without power in the DC area. That is double the number I saw when I checked about an hour and a half ago. Another site said over 3,000,000 are in the dark in the Northeastern U.S.


----------



## CHamilton

Via a friend on Facebook.



> Nydailynews: Transit update from from Pete Donohue: Subways could be out for days All under-water tubes linking Manhattan and Brooklyn are flooded - raising the possibility that subway service could be out at least in part for days. The 4, 5, 2, 3, A , C, F and R trains use the five tunnels under the East River. There also is flooding on the No. 1 line in lower Manhattan.
> 
> Read more: http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/Tracking_Hurricane_Sandy_2/54247483#ixzz2AkDPrCpJ


----------



## GG-1

The Davy Crockett said:


> I think I may have seen a squirrel doing the backstroke in my back yard as it was growing dark. Or maybe it was the two beers I've had.


Aloha
And How many beers till you do the backstroke? :giggle:  :lol:


----------



## The Davy Crockett

GG-1 said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I may have seen a squirrel doing the backstroke in my back yard as it was growing dark. Or maybe it was the two beers I've had.
> 
> 
> 
> Aloha
> And How many beers till you do the backstroke? :giggle:  :lol:
Click to expand...

I tried to find out once, but I ran out of beer before the pool was deep enough for me to attempt it. 

It is still raining, but the winds have died down here in ALX. There are still some gusts, but none with near the intensity of last night. When it gets light out I'll take a look around the house to see if there is any damage, but we never lost power and our trees, near as I can tell, all weathered the storm. Boy, do I feel lucky. From what I'm reading, over 500,000 customers were without power in the DC-Baltimore region last night, and that number is only down by about 25,000 this morning. It is going to be a while before everyone is back on the grid and the mess is cleaned up.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

So far, so good at my house. Didn't lose power though houses in the area have per Delmarva. No water in the basement, yet. And only a minor leak at the bottom of my living room window.

Waiting for sunlight to check the outside.


----------



## Amtrak Cajun

AB, I hope you are doing well.

For that matter, I hope all of you in the Northeast are ok. Im keeping all of you in my thoughts.


----------



## Ryan

Lost power here about 10:00 last night. Winds seem to have died down considerably overnight, hopefully the worst is over and the power comes back soon!


----------



## Amtrak Cajun

I hope you get you power back soon Ryan.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

They won't send crews out, at least not the cherry pickers(buckets) until the winds die down to a safe level (I think I heard 40 mph). I don't know if that's sustained or gusts.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

AC, thanks for the well-wishes.

Hope we hear from our NJ members that things are well for them also.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

Once the rain stopped yesterday evening, I was surprised that this is when the winds started to pick up.

Driving into work this morning, most of the traffic signals where dark. It seems that most drivers think that when a signal is dark, that you're suppose to slam your gas pedal to the floor, and speed thru the intersection as fast as you can.

I pass by a few RR crossings. Their "arms" all seemed to be intact. The one freight train that I usually see stopped (but running) in a siding each morning, wasn't there this morning.

In the distance, I could see an oasis of light. It was where I worked, and apparently still had power. It was kind of strange that our sign out by the main road was lit, but the traffic signal there was dark.

My favorite radio station is off the air.

AT&T had one of its main towers explode, so for AT&T customers, cell coverage is spotty.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Once the rain stopped yesterday evening, I was surprised that this is when the winds started to pick up.
> 
> Driving into work this morning, most of the traffic signals where dark. It seems that most drivers think that when a signal is dark, that you're suppose to slam your gas pedal to the floor, and speed thru the intersection as fast as you can.
> 
> I pass by a few RR crossings. Their "arms" all seemed to be intact. The one freight train that I usually see stopped (but running) in a siding each morning, wasn't there this morning.
> 
> In the distance, I could see an oasis of light. It was where I worked, and apparently still had power. It was kind of strange that our sign out by the main road was lit, but the traffic signal there was dark.
> 
> My favorite radio station is off the air.
> 
> AT&T had one of its main towers explode, so for AT&T customers, cell coverage is spotty.


Charlie, which part of the country are you reporting from?


----------



## CHamilton

Worst Disaster in Subway's History, M.T.A. Chief Says



> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority said early on Tuesday that the storm was the worst disaster in the history of the New York City subway system.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> As of last night, seven subway tunnels under the East River flooded. Metro-North Railroad lost power from 59th Street to Croton-Harmon on the Hudson Line and to New Haven on the New Haven Line.
> 
> The Long Island Rail Road evacuated its West Side Yards and suffered flooding in one East River tunnel.
> 
> The Hugh L. Carey Tunnel is flooded from end to end and the Queens-Midtown Tunnel also took on water and was closed. Six bus garages were disabled by high water.
> 
> 
> Asked when New Yorkers could expect the transit system to be back up and running, a spokesman for the authority, Aaron Donovan, said in a television interview that there was “no firm timeline.”


----------



## CHamilton

> [Maryland] MTA restores some service; MARC remains suspended
> 
> The Maryland Transit Administration will begin limited service for the local buses, the Baltimore subway and mobility/paratransit trips it operates.
> 
> MARC trains and commuter buses remain suspended for the day. The MTA will have information on when that service will resume later today.


Here's a list of train and transit closures in the DC area.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain

Amtrak.com now showing that LSL is sold out on Thursday -- again not sure if this is really sold out or cancelled....

Might be here until Thanksgiving at this rate.

Dont really want to fly back in the end of the hurricane!!


----------



## MrFSS

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Amtrak.com now showing that LSL is sold out on Thursday -- again not sure if this is really sold out or cancelled....
> 
> Might be here until Thanksgiving at this rate.
> 
> Dont really want to fly back in the end of the hurricane!!


Jackie - we are about 80 miles south of you and have an extra place at the table for Thanksgiving if you want to come down into central Kentucky.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Amtrak.com now showing that LSL is sold out on Thursday -- again not sure if this is really sold out or cancelled....
> 
> Might be here until Thanksgiving at this rate.
> 
> Dont really want to fly back in the end of the hurricane!!


Water level route is open and trains are traveling. The storm had a cut off line south of Albany, NY someplace south you have heavy damages. Us folks up north (I90) did not notice any storm last night. Ok I live south of I-90 so there some minor damage, and I have no power. Lost power about 1930 hrs. Local and contract crews are out looking for issues this morning. Past two pick-up looking for damage. One driver had her child strap in a booster seat. Triage by payroll clerk.

Edit: Lost power Monday at 1920 hrs. Power to the house return at Tuesday at 1445 hrs. I live upstate NY, alot of contract power crews in the area, just working a day or two before heading down state. The storm did one heck of a left turn. We miss the bad stuff.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Rail cars on NJ Turnpike.

http://m.nbcnewyork.com/nbcnewyork/pm_107633/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=NHAWo0o0


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Just got back from an outing to Old Town ALX. Very minor flooding, a few trees down, a couple of wires down, some traffic lights dark, but nothing like north of here.

I think Charlie already addressed this with his link, but heard on the radio the DC Metro will be opening with limited bus and rail service after 2:00 PM today.


----------



## pennyk

I have not heard from either Shanghai (who is on Long Island babysitting) or Dave (in Rhode Island). I have sent a text to each of them and have not heard back. My sister in Maryland is fine with minimal damage and did not lose power.


----------



## CHamilton

> AMTRAK ASSESSING DAMAGE FROM HURRICANE SANDY AND MAKING REPAIRS
> 
> by Amtrak on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 6:51am ·
> 
> Decision on limited service restoration to be made later in the day
> 
> Amtrak crews are currently inspecting tunnels, tracks, equipment and stations to assess the damage from Hurricane Sandy and are beginning to make the necesasry repairs along Amtrak-owned sections of railroad in the Northeast, including the Northeast Corridor.
> 
> In addition, Amtrak is working closely with host railroads on whose tracks Amtrak train operate to determine when passenger train service can resume operations on their railroads.
> 
> Necessary repairs include the removal of trees and other debris from the tracks and the overheasd electrical power system, as well as track and signal repairs.
> 
> Most Amtrak service in the Northeast remains suspended on Tuesday, October 30. Amtrak stations in the affected areas and along the affected routes should be considered closed. A decision on limited service restoration north and south of New York will be made later today for Wednesday, October 31.
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some reservations booked online can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visitAmtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## AlanB

MTA expects to resume bus service at 5PM, running on a Sunday schedule. No fares will be charged. Subways, who knows. I can hear work crews on my scanner out on my line, the #7 line. However, the MTA chairman reported that the tunnel to Manhattan used by the #7 is flooded. One subway station in lower Manhattan has water to the ceiling!  There is a 40 foot boat parked on Metro North tracks by Ossening. The East River got west of 1st Avenue at 34th Street. 

I personally never lost power here where I am in Queens. A few flickers and UPS batteries protested, but no loss of power. For those who know my mom, she's OK out in PA but lost power around 5:30 PM last night and it remains out.


----------



## afigg

The Davy Crockett said:


> I think Charlie already addressed this with his link, but heard on the radio the DC Metro will be opening with limited bus and rail service after 2:00 PM today.


The DC area only got side swiped by the storm. NJ and NYC took the direct hit.

Gov. Christie in his news conference said that every NJ Transit rail line suffered major damage and the coast rail line had been washed out. So the NEC in NJ may have taken significant damage.

In NYC, the statement from the MTA stated that besides the multiple subway tunnels with flooding, one of the East River tunnels used by LIRR and thus Amtrak had flooding. No concrete info on the state of NYP, Sunnyside yard, the Hudson River tunnels or Metro-North New Haven Line. The winds over much of the NEC region are still at 20-30+ mph speeds, so there could still be trees and branches falling down through tonight.


----------



## CHamilton

From Gov. Christie's press conference:



> • 2.4 million NJ households without power, “This is twice the number as Hurricane Irene.” 1.2 million of those are PSE&G (in the Newark and Jersey City areas.) “Hurricane Irene took 8 days to restore, this may take longer.”
> 
> • Avoid travel unless absolutely necessary. Private employers: Unless you can identify a safe route for employees to get to work, I’d ask you to let them stay home today.
> 
> • Garden State Parkway open. Turnpike open from Exits 1 to 10.
> 
> • 24 small rail cars were moved by tidal surge onto elevated roadway at NJ turnpike, Northbound side, around exit 12. Cranes are working to remove these railcars.
> 
> • NJ transit assessing the system. There is major damage on “each and every one of New Jersey’s rail lines. Large sections washed out on the coast, large trees on rails across the state, several rail bridges damaged.


----------



## CHamilton

The Davy Crockett said:


> I think Charlie already addressed this with his link, but heard on the radio the DC Metro will be opening with limited bus and rail service after 2:00 PM today.


Scott, yes.



> Metro notes: Normal fares/parking rates, service gaps
> 
> Metro is restoring only limited bus and rail service on Tuesday at 2 p.m., but that doesn’t mean the cost will be any lower for riders.
> 
> Fares at Metro’s stations and parking garages will be the usual weekday rates, with peak fares being charged between 3 and 7 p.m. This is because changing the fares takes several hours for testing and implementation, and Metro doesn’t have enough time to make these changes by the time peak fares kick in, said Metro spokesman Dan Stessel.
> 
> Trains will run less frequently than they would on a normal weekday, but they will still operate slightly more often than on a Sunday, Stessel said.
> 
> He said Red Line trains will run every seven to eight minutes, while trains on the other four lines will operate every eight to 15 minutes.
> 
> One big difference for riders: Unlike a normal weekend, there’s no track work, so at least riders can avoid those delays. Some trains could encounter minor delays if debris or leaves gets blown onto the tracks, Stessel said.
> 
> Trains will begin test runs on the tracks at noon. Stessel said that once the system reopens at 2 p.m., it might take about 30 minutes for the first trains to service all of the stations.


----------



## AlanB

afigg said:


> In NYC, the statement from the MTA stated that besides the multiple subway tunnels with flooding, one of the East River tunnels used by LIRR and thus Amtrak had flooding. No concrete info on the state of NYP, Sunnyside yard, the Hudson River tunnels or Metro-North New Haven Line. The winds over much of the NEC region are still at 20-30+ mph speeds, so there could still be trees and branches falling down through tonight.


Metro North has a 40 foot boat parked on the Hudson line. Additionally there is no power from 59th Street in Manhattan to Croton Harmon on the Hudson line and there is no power from 59th St all the way to New Haven on the New Haven line. It would seem that the Harlem line is the only line that still has power over most of its entire length, which isn't exactly surprising since it has the shortest electric powered section, from White Plains south.

No word on the LIRR at all, other than that tunnel bit.

And again, there are work trains out on the #7 line that I can hear tying down signals that are out, etc. trying to get that line restarted. Although it would appear that if they get it running, it would only be in Queens as unless the MTA Chairman got things wrong when he reported that the Steinway tube was flooded, train would be unable to reach Manhattan. They would have to end within site of Manhattan at the foot of the 59th Street/Queensboro Bridge.

Most bridges, save those to the Rockaways have reopened as of Noon. All tunnels, save the Lincoln, remain closed.  Sounds like the Midtown will be the first to reopen, and the Holland & Brooklyn Battery could be closed for days.


----------



## CHamilton

http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/Tracking_Hurricane_Sandy_2/54338732



> MTA Chairman Joseph Lhota said this morning that Hurricane Sandy created historic damage to the metropolitan region's transportation systems.
> 
> ...
> 
> Flooding, fallen trees and branches, and a lack of power have devastated the entire system, Lhota said.
> 
> Several New York Transit Authority subway tunnels from Manhattan to Brooklyn were under water, he said.
> 
> In addition, six garages were “disabled” by high water and rail yards at 207th and 148th streets in upper Manhattan were also hit.
> 
> Lhota said the trains, subways and buses themselves were not damaged by the storm. But the tracks and lines were.
> 
> “The assessment will take more time than we thought.,” he said. One thing found, he said, is that the water level at the South Street station downtown is “literally up to the ceiling.”
> 
> Like Cuomo, Lhota said the subway system will have to come back in stages, with riders having to show “flexibility and creativity” by using a mix of trains and buses until everything is back on line.
> 
> “If there are parts of the subway system we can get up, we will get them up,” Lhota said. “We will be able to complement that with our bus service as well.”
> 
> The Long Island Rail Road evacuated sites at its West Side yard and also had flooding at its East River tunnel that goes to Jamaica, he said.
> 
> The Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and Queens Midtown Tunnel remain closed because of flooding and are being pumped out, he said.


----------



## CHamilton

> SOME BUS SERVICE TO RETURN TUESDAY EVENING, NO WORD ON SUBWAYS
> 
> BY PETE DONOHUE
> 
> Bus service will resume at 5 pm with the MTA operating on a Sunday schedule, Gov. Cuomo said.
> 
> He said he hoped regular bus service would resume Wednesday.
> 
> Riders can ride for free Tuesday and Wednesday as they are "struggling to get their lives in gear."
> 
> Cuomo and MTA Chairman said the authority would try and restore parts of the subway system and complement it with bus service - but said restoring service through now-flooded subway tunnels beneath the East River was a daunting task.
> 
> "The damage to the tracks, tunnels under water, is unlike anything the city has seen in decades, if ever," Cuomo said
> 
> MTA bridges are opening at noon. The Hugh Carey Tunnel and the Port Authority's Holland Tunnel are flooded and closed.
> 
> Officials didn't say when the commuter railroads would be back on line. Metro-North was dealing with power outages - and a 40-foot boat beached across tracks in Ossining.
> 
> "Sandy wreaked havoc on our entire transportation system in every single borough in the city and every single county in the MTA region," Lhota said.
> 
> Water in one lower Manhattan station was up to the ceiling, Lhota said.
> 
> Because the MTA moved subway trains and buses to protected areas no buses or train cars suffered damage, Lhota said.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

AlanB said:


> I personally never lost power here where I am in Queens. A few flickers and UPS batteries protested, but no loss of power. For those who know my mom, she's OK out in PA but lost power around 5:30 PM last night and it remains out.


Good to hear your mom is doing OK. I thought about her yesterday.


----------



## AlanB

Well they are out working on the Subways as I noted earlier, I'm still hearing radio calls from works trains out on the #7 line and tower calls to Times Sqare and 111 Tower. Oddly not getting any radio traffic for other lines, either that or repeaters are down due to the loss of power. I'll also grant that I haven't been steadily listening to the radio either.

They're reporting lots of track circuits on the #7 line, which means that they're having big signal problems, most of which will need to be fixed before they can hope to resume service.


----------



## SubwayNut

Metro-North just released a great set of photos on Flickr. I directly linked to the photos of the boat in Ossining, also used by the Empire Service Trains. There not any photos in the set of the Main Line of the New Haven Line but a good one of the wires totally down on the New Caanon Branch.

I need to also make a correction, the Harlem line is electrified all the way to Southeast in Brewster. It was extended north in the 1980s and is significantly longer than the electrified part of the Hudson Line. Listening to the radio (why no sources) reports about totally washouts in New Jersey on the North Jersey Coast Line (and fallen trees on other lines) but nothing about damage to the Northeast Corridor in Jersey. Amtrak as usual is saying very little except that their 'evaluating service for tomorrow'.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

At least it's a "little" boat unlike that ship that landed on Statan Island.


----------



## pennyk

pennyk said:


> I have not heard from either Shanghai (who is on Long Island babysitting) or Dave (in Rhode Island). I have sent a text to each of them and have not heard back. My sister in Maryland is fine with minimal damage and did not lose power.


Dave is fine in Rhode Island but has no power. He will be going to his sister's house soon and will be able to "bother" us again. I am looking forward to "seeing" him again on-line.


----------



## jis

Just got 3G service back. Everything else is down with high tension power line poles snapped like twigs in a few places. Many trees down and many houses severely damaged. It would be an understatement to say that in some areas the devastation is quie spectacular. We came out fine. Lost power for good around 8:30pm. I understand that we got gusts at upto 100mph with steady winds at 65-70 mph or so around here. I have run out of UPS batteries, so now it is off to the car to charge the iPhone when neede, since I do want to keep the laptop batteries charged just in case. Good thing we still have gas service and I have very large matchbox fully stocked. At least I can keep myself entertained cooking!


----------



## the_traveler

I'm back from the dead! 

Besides a few trees down about 1/2 away that cut power, cable and Internet, no real damage to our property. I live 116 feet above sea level and on a semi-hill. We had little rain, but high winds all day including an 81 MPH gust a few miles away!  Last night, my BIL took a ride (stupid I know) and at ocean (south facing and no land in the way until Bermuda or Europe) had I guesstimate 15-20 foot waves. They blocked the roads and I could only get a block away. I've never saw waves here like that!


----------



## The Davy Crockett

the_traveler said:


> I'm back from the dead!
> 
> Besides a few trees down about 1/2 away that cut power, cable and Internet, no real damage to our property. I live 116 feet above sea level and on a semi-hill. We had little rain, but high winds all day including an 81 MPH gust a few miles away!  Last night, my BIL took a ride (stupid I know) and at ocean (south facing and no land in the way until Bermuda or Europe) had I guesstimate 15-20 foot waves. They blocked the roads and I could only get a block away. I've never saw waves here like that!


Good to hear your safe Dave. How did the Penthouse Suite and its staff and crew make out?


----------



## CHamilton

> MARC trains face delays, VRE full service Weds.
> 
> CSX estimated that freight rail traffic throughout the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic would be delayed at least 72 hours due to the storm. The CSX shutdown also affects Maryland Area Regional Commuter (MARC) trains on the Brunswick and Camden lines because those trains run on CSX-owned track.
> 
> As of Tuesday afternoon, freight trains still were not running on CSX tracks between Richmond and north of Albany, N.Y., said CSX spokesman Robert Sullivan. CSX suspended service at 3 a.m. Monday.
> 
> CSX crews are inspecting the rail network in areas affected by the storm, including those in higher altitudes that had significant snow. Crews are removing trees, bringing in generators and reinstalling crossing gates that were taken down before the storm, Sullivan,
> 
> The Virginia Railway Express, meanwhile, announced that its will be running full service Wednesday.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> Just got 3G service back. Everything else is down with high tension power line poles snapped like twigs in a few places. Many trees down and many houses severely damaged. It would be an understatement to say that in some areas the devastation is quie spectacular. We came out fine. Lost power for good around 8:30pm. I understand that we got gusts at upto 100mph with steady winds at 65-70 mph or so around here. I have run out of UPS batteries, so now it is off to the car to charge the iPhone when neede, since I do want to keep the laptop batteries charged just in case. Good thing we still have gas service and I have very large matchbox fully stocked. At least I can keep myself entertained cooking!


jis, Good to hear you are doing well under the circumstances. What's for dinner?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

The Davy Crockett said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got 3G service back. Everything else is down with high tension power line poles snapped like twigs in a few places. Many trees down and many houses severely damaged. It would be an understatement to say that in some areas the devastation is quie spectacular. We came out fine. Lost power for good around 8:30pm. I understand that we got gusts at upto 100mph with steady winds at 65-70 mph or so around here. I have run out of UPS batteries, so now it is off to the car to charge the iPhone when neede, since I do want to keep the laptop batteries charged just in case. Good thing we still have gas service and I have very large matchbox fully stocked. At least I can keep myself entertained cooking!
> 
> 
> 
> jis, Good to hear you are doing well under the circumstances. What's for dinner?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. You can't get there (by train, plane and probably by car).


----------



## fairviewroad

SubwayNut said:


> Metro-North just released a great set of photos on Flickr. I directly linked to the photos of the boat in Ossining, also used by the Empire Service Trains.


Here's another one from that same set of photos of rail cars with a wee bit of a water issue:


----------



## River in Sight

Just as an FYI, the Silvers will not be operating (at least in the North) on Wednesday. I was booked on 97 and received an e-mail notifying me of the cancellation (I don't think this is reflected on Amtrak's website yet). I was able to call and snag the very last bedroom left on 97 for Thursday, the following day - hopefully Thursday's service will operate. Just wanted to post this for anyone else who might be on the Silvers tomorrow.


----------



## the_traveler

The Davy Crockett said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm back from the dead!
> 
> Besides a few trees down about 1/2 away that cut power, cable and Internet, no real damage to our property. I live 116 feet above sea level and on a semi-hill. We had little rain, but high winds all day including an 81 MPH gust a few miles away!  Last night, my BIL took a ride (stupid I know) and at ocean (south facing and no land in the way until Bermuda or Europe) had I guesstimate 15-20 foot waves. They blocked the roads and I could only get a block away. I've never saw waves here like that!
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear your safe Dave. How did the Penthouse Suite and its staff and crew make out?
Click to expand...

The Penthouse Suite and staff are safe and sound after riding out the storm in an undisclosed location! h34r:


----------



## CHamilton

Who Should Foot the Bill for Sandy’s Damage to Tracks and Train Tunnels?



> ...In Philadelphia, SEPTA is slowly bringing back service on subway and bus lines. The regional rail system is down at least until tomorrow, with the majority of the damage apparently from downed trees. Amtrak has also continued its suspension of service on the Northeast Corridor, with repairs pending on the track and signal systems, as well as the removal of trees and other debris.
> 
> New Jersey Transit was hit hard, with “major damage on each and every one of New Jersey rail lines,” according to Governor Chris Christie, including washouts along the North Jersey Coast Line and at Kearny Junction, as well as flooding at rail hubs in Secaucus, Hoboken and Newark Penn Station, according to the AP. It could be seven to 10 days before PATH train service is restored.
> 
> DC’s metro came back online at 2:00 p.m. today, and there was no major flooding or damage reported to Baltimore’s and Boston’s transit systems.
> 
> ...
> 
> One early estimate pegged the total damage caused by the storm at more than $20 billion, with insured losses at about $7 billion. Infrastructure repairs figure to account for a substantial portion of the costs. With transit agencies and local governments still feeling the fiscal squeeze, who will foot the bill?
> 
> Luckily, FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate says FEMA is flush with money for the response, including repairs to infrastructure, with a $7.8 billion disaster relief fund. That’s reassuring, after the agency was caught empty-handed in the wake of Hurricane Irene.
> 
> Transit has an extra cushion now, too, thanks to a provision in the new transportation bill, MAP-21, that created an emergency relief program for transit, similar to what exists for highways. Funds still need to be appropriated, but the Federal Transit Administration does have the authority to distribute funds to agencies in need.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

AmtrakBlue said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got 3G service back. Everything else is down with high tension power line poles snapped like twigs in a few places. Many trees down and many houses severely damaged. It would be an understatement to say that in some areas the devastation is quie spectacular. We came out fine. Lost power for good around 8:30pm. I understand that we got gusts at upto 100mph with steady winds at 65-70 mph or so around here. I have run out of UPS batteries, so now it is off to the car to charge the iPhone when neede, since I do want to keep the laptop batteries charged just in case. Good thing we still have gas service and I have very large matchbox fully stocked. At least I can keep myself entertained cooking!
> 
> 
> 
> jis, Good to hear you are doing well under the circumstances. What's for dinner?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't matter. You can't get there (by train, plane and probably by car).
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is that. :mellow:


----------



## Texan Eagle

Not Amtrak or train related but an interesting pic nevertheless-







Ladies and gentlemen, your plane *ship* will soon be arriving at Gate C34 at La Guardia airport!


----------



## CHamilton

Subway station damage video from MTA.


(Sorry, not sure how to embed this in the new version.)


----------



## PRR 60

Texan Eagle said:


> Not Amtrak or train related but an interesting pic nevertheless-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, your plane *ship* will soon be arriving at Gate C34 at La Guardia airport!


Perhaps PanAm Railways is considering reestablishment of Clipper Air Boat service at LGA?


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Amtrak.com now showing that LSL is sold out on Thursday -- again not sure if this is really sold out or cancelled....
> 
> Might be here until Thanksgiving at this rate.
> 
> Dont really want to fly back in the end of the hurricane!!


Just got off the phone with an Amtrak agent who said that the LSL is scheduled to leave on Wednesday evening so..I should be home by Thursday night!

Hopefully!!!


----------



## jis

For dinner tonight is Salmon Jalfrezi with Mango Chutney. I have nothing better to do at present than cook all the raw stuff in the refrigerator before the rise in temp causes them to spoil 

(null)


----------



## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> For dinner tonight is Salmon Jalfrezi with Mango Chutney. I have nothing better to do at present than cook all the raw stuff in the refrigerator before the rise in temp causes them to spoil
> 
> (null)


I didn't know what Jalfrezi was, so I looked it up. If my info is correct, it is a curried stir fry. I'm a big curry fan, so I suspect it would be really good! How hot do you make it? (You know how us folks from the States can't always stomach intensely hot foods...)


----------



## pennyk

I just heard on the news that New York is not planning to cancel the marathon scheduled for this Sunday. I have several friends that are/were planning to run the race, but are not quite sure if they can get there.


----------



## jhjr

Limited long distance service tomorrow - the Crescent and Silver Meteor are running out of Washington instead of Penn Station.

http://www.carolinacoastonline.com/news_times/news/article_c75be072-22d8-11e2-b868-001a4bcf887a.html


----------



## the_traveler

pennyk said:


> I just heard on the news that New York is not planning to cancel the marathon scheduled for this Sunday. I have several friends that are/were planning to run the race, but are not quite sure if they can get there.


Now if it was a triathlon, the swimming portion could be done easily!


----------



## the_traveler

PRR 60 said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not Amtrak or train related but an interesting pic nevertheless-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, your plane *ship* will soon be arriving at Gate C34 at La Guardia airport!
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps PanAm Railways is considering reestablishment of Clipper Air Boat service at LGA?
Click to expand...

Or maybe _*ARK*_ service!


----------



## Trogdor

Gives a whole new meaning to the Marine Air Terminal.


----------



## me_little_me

pennyk said:


> I just heard on the news that New York is not planning to cancel the marathon scheduled for this Sunday. I have several friends that are/were planning to run the race, but are not quite sure if they can get there.


Could they swim?


----------



## CHamilton

> AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN
> 
> by Amtrak on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 3:48pm ·
> 
> Modified Northeast Regional service from Newark, N.J., to points south, some Downeaster service and Keystone service to operate; overnight train service restoration also underway
> 
> Amtrak will provide modified Northeast Regional service between Newark, N.J., and points south, on Wednesday, October 31, including restoring Virginia service to Lynchburg, Richmond and Newport News. Amtrak will also operate Keystone Service trains between Harrisburg, Penn., and Philadelphia, and modified Downeaster service trains between Boston and Portland, Maine, along with some overnight services to and from the Northeast.
> 
> However, as in the case of other tunnel owners and operators in New York City, Amtrak is removing water and making repairs to track, signal and power systems within its tunnels under the Hudson and East rivers. The amount of water intrusion into the tunnels is unprecedented – as was the storm itself – so a date for restoration of Amtrak service directly to/from New York Penn Station from either the north or south is not available at this time.
> 
> Therefore, there will be no Northeast Regional service between Newark and Boston and noAcela Express service for the length of the Northeast Corridor on Wednesday, October 31. Also, at Newark Penn Station, there will be no connecting service to New York City and no elevator or escalator service. Service to the Newark Liberty Airport rail station is suspended due to a lack of connecting services.
> 
> Also canceled on Wednesday, October 31, is the Empire Service between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and theEthan Allen Express to and from Rutland, Vt., due to track damage south of Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y.
> 
> Other service plans, full and partial service, for Wednesday, October 31:
> 
> 
> Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate only between Washington D.C. and New Orleans
> 
> Cardinal (Train 51) will operate only between Indianapolis and Chicago
> 
> Auto Train (Train 52) will operate as schedule as scheduled between Sanford, Fla., and Lorton, Va.
> 
> Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer
> 
> Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80) will operate only between Philadelphia and Charlotte
> 
> Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will only operate between Miami and Jacksonville, Fla.
> 
> Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) will operate between Washington D.C. and Miami
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally between Chicago and Boston, with no (Trains 48 & 49) service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer.
> 
> 
> The following trains are also canceled for Wednesday, October 31:
> 
> 
> Shuttle trains, Springfield, Mass.-New Haven, Conn.
> 
> Capitol Limited (Trains 29 & 30), Chicago-Washington, D.C.
> 
> Pennsylvanian (Trains 42 & 43), Pittsburgh-New York City
> 
> Auto Train (Train 53), Lorton, Va.-Sanford, Fla.
> 
> Vermonter (Trains 55 & 56), St. Albans, Vt.-Washington, D.C.
> 
> Palmetto (Trains 89 & 90), New York-Savannah
> 
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Amtrak will update this statement by Wednesday evening, October 31.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visitAmtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## Anderson

Ok, I'm stumped...why is the Auto Train cancelled SB? Equipment move needed (i.e. both sets got stuck in FL)? I know that's partly behind the Star only operating in FL (I think enough sets are stuck in New York) while the Meteor operates MIA-WAS (they truncated the last one before the storm at WAS for this reason).


----------



## the_traveler

AmtrakBlue said:


> Rail cars on NJ Turnpike.


New type of service offered by NJ Transit? :giggle:


----------



## AlanB

Anderson said:


> Ok, I'm stumped...why is the Auto Train cancelled SB? Equipment move needed (i.e. both sets got stuck in FL)? I know that's partly behind the Star only operating in FL (I think enough sets are stuck in New York) while the Meteor operates MIA-WAS (they truncated the last one before the storm at WAS for this reason).


Because the day before the storm hit, they only ran the southbound train to get the equipment out of harms way as at that point the cone of danger was still way too close to that area. So they didn't run a northbound that day, and therefore they ended up with both consists in Florida.

So they have no consist in Virginia to run south, until today's northbound reaches Lorton in the morning.


----------



## jhjr

Kudos to Amtrak. I'm booked on GRO-WAS-FTL tomorrow and I can't believe I'm going. Granted, the refund would have made my nephew's christmas a little more lucrative.


----------



## amamba

So the MBTA tracks between BOS - PVD were flooded at some point south of RTE last night. The water has gone down and those tracks are now open between PVD - BOS, allowing MBTA service between the two cities. I also read in the Providence Journal that in fact the shore line is safe and operational between PVD and NHV, but they are not going to be running any amtrak service to NHV at this point. I wonder if we will get an "inland routing" train again like we did in the spring of 2010 when we had the historic floods in RI/PVD so that service coudl be provided between BOS - NYP?

Do you all think the trains will be up and running again into NYP by the 20th? That is when I have my silver meteor trip booked!


----------



## amamba

Whoops, here is the link to to the ProJo story?

http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/10/amtrak-to-restore-service-south-of-newark-nj-wednesday-but-not-north-of-nyc.html


----------



## NE933

This immense disaster has made it's way in may life. I was doing a Fall trip to Lancaster, while Sandy moved up, then in. Mercifully, Lancaster PA had surprisingly very little, as far as I know, bad things happen, save for spotty power outage. This is an area with valleys and a spider web of streams and creaks, which so far, has not flooded. Pennsylvania was in a drought this summer, and the dry ground helped tremendously in holding the 5 inches of rain.

Now, the bad news is I can't go back to NYC because the Hudson River tunnels are under water. Likely a friend who lives in Jersey will pick me up as far as one can get, which now Amtrak says is Newark, NJ (the Penn station, NOT the airport, though that can change). All of Lower and Midtown Manhattan is without power, many places no phones. No power means no water. Buildings up to six floors get water from gravity from the upstate reservoirs, anything higher needs electrical pumps. I can not reach my parents, hope that a compassionate Creator by whatever name we call him will act with kindness. I never thought my family and friends would have so many routes of connection severed like this. If anyone of us had a medical strike befall, whether its the age and physical stuff of my mother and father, and even my friends, or the cranial issues of me and many others, I've had lots and lots and lots of time to wonder how we handle such news, esp. with no goodbye or anything.

And yet as I type this in my hotel here in Amish country, these harrowing stories are legion all around: 80 houses in Queens burned up by Hurrican winds fanning flames and embers, a hospital, NYU, losing generators once the floods came in, tens of thousands in New Jersey where the Atlantic smashed homes then buried with sand, levies failing in central NJ even though needless sports arenas get priority funding. My thoughts and prayers to all out there, and especially the hard work of rail and engineer workers who get us intact and who figure out a better way ahead.


----------



## CHamilton

NE933, I (and, I'm sure, the rest of us here of AU) wish you, your parents, and everyone else affected by the storm, the best wishes.


----------



## SubwayNut

My big question about tomorrow's regional service is if Amtrak will be using diesel locomotives to enter Newark? Is the catenary on the NEC in New Jersey damaged? SEPTA has announced full Regional Rail Service for Wednesday so the wires from Trenton to Wilmington must be back on line along with Marc announcing all train service tomorrow.

NJT is fully closed tomorrow (I've read about washouts and damage particularly on the North Jersey Coast and Atlantic City Lines), buses too except for routes in Camden (the city directly across from Philly), no River Line either. Sounds like the NEC is undamaged enough that they could run service from Trenton to Newark. I wonder why there not at least running limited service?

In New York (Me and my family escaped totally unscathed living at the highest point in Manhattan) we did get bus service back this evening (free of charge), saw one in service on the Bx36 at 5:30. The subway is going to be a few days. Transit will be quite interesting.

Edit: *NE933, *I started typing my post and got distracted before I noticed yours. Good luck with you and your family. I know its not Amtrak but you might want to try a bus service from Philly, MegaBus for example says on their website there restoring service to New York City after noon.


----------



## CHamilton

For those of us who were just there for the Gathering, seeing an empty 30th Street Station is pretty shocking.


----------



## Nathanael

SubwayNut said:


> Sounds like the NEC is undamaged enough that they could run service from Trenton to Newark. I wonder why there not at least running limited service?


Good question. Perhaps the trains are trapped in the wrong location. Apparently NJT's operations center was flooded, destroying everything, so if the trains are in a yard controlled by NJT dispatch, they can't be gotten out. Nasty. I think NJT was building a backup operations center, but apparently that's not done yet...

Press release including the information about the operations center:

http://www.njtransit...RELEASE_ID=2801

Another question is why Amtrak isn't operating from New Haven to Boston or New Haven to Springfield, if Shore Line East is actually operating on Wednesday. I'm not sure Shore Line East is operating, however; the Providence Journal may be wrong, as there is nothing about it on SLE's website.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> SubwayNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the NEC is undamaged enough that they could run service from Trenton to Newark. I wonder why there not at least running limited service?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Perhaps the trains are trapped in the wrong location. Apparently NJT's operations center was flooded, destroying everything, so if the trains are in a yard controlled by NJT dispatch, they can't be gotten out. Nasty. I think NJT was building a backup operations center, but apparently that's not done yet...
Click to expand...

My guess is simply because NJT's primary purpose is to get people to NY City. Dropping them in Newark does not accomplish that purpose. And with PATH out, they're stranded in Newark. It could also be in part that Amtrak doesn't have the corridor fully in service, not to mention that there isn't a huge capacity to turn trains around in Newark.



Nathanael said:


> Another question is why Amtrak isn't operating from New Haven to Boston or New Haven to Springfield, if Shore Line East is actually operating on Wednesday. I'm not sure Shore Line East is operating, however; the Providence Journal may be wrong, as there is nothing about it on SLE's website.


Because it serves no real purpose, as people want to go to NY; not New Haven. Additionally, at least report, Metro North had no power at all on the entire New Haven line. So Amtrak trains would have to coast into New Haven where they'd then be trapped unless hauled back to Amtrak territory by a diesel engine.

We also don't know if Amtrak has power on between New Haven & Providence either. Remember, both the MBTA & Shoreline East are both diesel hauled services.


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> Because it serves no real purpose, as people want to go to NY; not New Haven.


People in New Haven do go to Boston, you know!



> Additionally, at least report, Metro North had no power at all on the entire New Haven line. So Amtrak trains would have to coast into New Haven where they'd then be trapped unless hauled back to Amtrak territory by a diesel engine.
> We also don't know if Amtrak has power on between New Haven & Providence either. Remember, both the MBTA & Shoreline East are both diesel hauled services.


Ah, right. That's probably the reason. Amtrak certainly doesn't have extra diesels lying around north of NY.


----------



## the_traveler

I heard from Shanghai this am, and he said he's fine!  I hope all members are accounted for and OK!


----------



## the_traveler

Nathanael said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it serves no real purpose, as people want to go to NY; not New Haven.
> 
> 
> 
> People in New Haven do go to Boston, you know!
Click to expand...

But without any train sets in NHV, how would they make up trains? The only cars kept there are a couple for the Shuttle to HFD and SPG. And there is no way to turn the train at NHV, so the train would have to run backwards between BOS and NHV or the other way!


----------



## CHamilton

This morning, traffic looks to be the biggest problem in NYC. And



> The South Ferry subway station remained completely flooded, though it appeared that the water had receded a few feet at some of the station entrances.
> 
> The Batter Parky underpass also remained completely underwater, though it too appeared to have receded a few feet; the top of the cab of a Department of Transportation dump truck, which on Tuesday was completely submerged, poking through the surface of the murky green-grey river water.


[Typos in original too good to fix.]


----------



## amamba

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SubwayNut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the NEC is undamaged enough that they could run service from Trenton to Newark. I wonder why there not at least running limited service?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Perhaps the trains are trapped in the wrong location. Apparently NJT's operations center was flooded, destroying everything, so if the trains are in a yard controlled by NJT dispatch, they can't be gotten out. Nasty. I think NJT was building a backup operations center, but apparently that's not done yet...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My guess is simply because NJT's primary purpose is to get people to NY City. Dropping them in Newark does not accomplish that purpose. And with PATH out, they're stranded in Newark. It could also be in part that Amtrak doesn't have the corridor fully in service, not to mention that there isn't a huge capacity to turn trains around in Newark.
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another question is why Amtrak isn't operating from New Haven to Boston or New Haven to Springfield, if Shore Line East is actually operating on Wednesday. I'm not sure Shore Line East is operating, however; the Providence Journal may be wrong, as there is nothing about it on SLE's website.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it serves no real purpose, as people want to go to NY; not New Haven. Additionally, at least report, Metro North had no power at all on the entire New Haven line. So Amtrak trains would have to coast into New Haven where they'd then be trapped unless hauled back to Amtrak territory by a diesel engine.
> 
> We also don't know if Amtrak has power on between New Haven & Providence either. Remember, both the MBTA & Shoreline East are both diesel hauled services.
Click to expand...

I would like to go to New Haven or Boston via amtrak right now, but that is a good point about the power. Doesn't amtrak keep some sets up in BOS, though? So if they really wanted to and the lines had power, could they theoretically run the a NEC set between BOS & NHV?


----------



## jis

Only after New Haven station opens. AFAIK right now it is not open.

If you really need to go, drive. That is how we are getting around here in NJ for the time being.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

CHamilton said:


> The Batter Parky
> 
> 
> 
> [Typos in original too good to fix.]
Click to expand...

Didn't he play for the Brooklyn Dodgers? :huh:


----------



## B&Ofan

amamba said:


> I would like to go to New Haven or Boston via amtrak right now, but that is a good point about the power. Doesn't amtrak keep some sets up in BOS, though? So if they really wanted to and the lines had power, could they theoretically run the a NEC set between BOS & NHV?


I think the damage to the shore line may not be that well reported. The tracks are quite close to the ocean and there surely were some washouts. There must also be quite a few tree down as well. In the storm of '38 it took the New Haven 2 weeks to restore shore line service putting all the resources available in it. My guess is there is a big effort in getting service running, but with so many stories, it just isn't being reported.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jebr

jis said:


> Only after New Haven station opens. AFAIK right now it is not open.
> 
> If you really need to go, drive. That is how we are getting around here in NJ for the time being.


Or use Greyhound or Megabus. They're starting up limited service already (Megabus will start at noon.)

Greyhound Service Alert

Megabus Service Alert


----------



## the_traveler

The Davy Crockett said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Batter Parky
> 
> 
> 
> [Typos in original too good to fix.]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't he play for the Brooklyn Dodgers? :huh:
Click to expand...

No, you got him confused with his brother, Butter Parky!


----------



## Trogdor

the_traveler said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Batter Parky
> 
> 
> 
> [Typos in original too good to fix.]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't he play for the Brooklyn Dodgers? :huh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you got him confused with his brother, Butter Parky!
Click to expand...

I thought it was Butter Parkay.


----------



## PRR 60

We were very lucky at our home in South Jersey. Except for a 30 second outage and several flickers and voltage drops, we didn’t lose power. Good thing because we have a typical South Jersey basement, meaning we have a sump pump to keep things dry. My wife and I sat up until after 2am Tuesday morning waiting for what we thought would be the inevitable loss of power. It never happened. Last summer the power company had tree crews up and down our street clearing the lines. That may have saved us. No real damage in our neighborhood, so it’s life as usual. Given the issues not that far north, we feel a bit guilty.

The destruction “down the shore” is horrific. Homes and shops inundated and destroyed. The shore is the vacation spot of my childhood and a common dining out destination today. To see those scenes is heartbreaking. Not everyone who owns property down there is wealthy. Some have owned homes through generations of family. The barrier islands are great when the weather is nice, but in the end they are only low elevation sand dunes, and when the ocean decides to take things over, anything built there doesn’t stand a chance.

The extent of the New York situation is hard to grasp. The city is so dependent on public transportation, and now has to function with almost nothing running. Given the descriptions of the damage, some facilities will be down for weeks. Incredible.


----------



## afigg

SubwayNut said:


> My big question about tomorrow's regional service is if Amtrak will be using diesel locomotives to enter Newark? Is the catenary on the NEC in New Jersey damaged? SEPTA has announced full Regional Rail Service for Wednesday so the wires from Trenton to Wilmington must be back on line along with Marc announcing all train service tomorrow.
> 
> NJT is fully closed tomorrow (I've read about washouts and damage particularly on the North Jersey Coast and Atlantic City Lines), buses too except for routes in Camden (the city directly across from Philly), no River Line either. Sounds like the NEC is undamaged enough that they could run service from Trenton to Newark. I wonder why there not at least running limited service?


According to reports, Amtrak will be running Acelas WAS-NWK for the Regional service. The Acelas don't need to be turned around, so they can go to Newark and back. If Amtrak is running Acelas to Newark, that means the catenary is operational WAS-NWK. The damage is east of there with the storm surge having flooded many tunnels and subway stations.

The problem with running as far as NWK is that with PATH and NJ Transit out of operation, options to get to NYC will be very limited. There could be a lot of passengers arriving at NWK who could overwhelm the limited transportation resources available. If Amtrak is able to clear the way through NYC and runs trains WAS-NYP, but the subway system & LIRR are still not operating, that could create a problem at NYP if people are not prepared to hoof it a few miles to their destination if they are going to somewhere in Manhattan.

With this much damage, there should be coordination between all the transportation authorities on the sequence they bring the numerous parts of the transit systems back to operation.


----------



## afigg

B&Ofan said:


> I think the damage to the shore line may not be that well reported. The tracks are quite close to the ocean and there surely were some washouts. There must also be quite a few tree down as well. In the storm of '38 it took the New Haven 2 weeks to restore shore line service putting all the resources available in it. My guess is there is a big effort in getting service running, but with so many stories, it just isn't being reported.


According to a report from Trains Magazine, there is a washout near Stonington CT that is under repair and generators have been deployed to provide power for the signals, so the Shore Line route is out of operation for the present. Could be a while before NYP-BOS service is restored depending on how damage there was to the New Haven line.

The report also says that one of the Hudson River tunnels and 2 of the East River tunnels were flooded, so they have to be pumped out, cleaned, and the electrical systems repaired.


----------



## the_traveler

Stonington is on the RI border, and that area was *VERY* hard hit! I'm not surprised if there was a washout there!


----------



## CHamilton

> Limited Subway Service to Return Thursday
> 
> The subway will begin limited service in New York City on Thursday, supplemented by buses between Manhattan and Brooklyn. There will be no subway service below 34th Street in Manhattan because of a lack of electricity. Three of the subway’s seven East River tunnels have been pumped out.
> 
> Limited Commuter Rail Service to Return
> 
> Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road will begin limited commuter rail service at 2 p.m. on Wednesday, Governor Cuomo has announced.


----------



## jebr

I've been following this transit tracker recently to see the changes, at least in the NYC area.


----------



## jis

Restored service so far

LIRR: Jamaica to Flatbush Terminal

MNRR North White Plains to Grand Central Terminal

Amtrak Newark Penn Station to Washington DC

NJT Still suspended until further notice

From what I understand service restoration to Penn Station is still a couple of days away.


----------



## AlanB

NJT will restore partial service to the River Line is about 10 minutes. It will run from Walter Rand north to Trenton only, no service south to the Entertainment Center.


----------



## Trogdor

Looks like BOS-NHV will be restored, at least partially, tonight.


----------



## AlanB

Here's a list of the subways/subway sections expected to start operating tomorrow in PDF form.


----------



## AlanB

And here's an interesting Subway map put out by WNYC.org showing what service is expected to operate tomorrow.


----------



## B&Ofan

I see Amtrak is running 448/449 from Boston to Chicago. I'm wondering if they will just run the full train to Boston, Just the 448/449 cars to Chicago or still split the train with th 48/49 cars terminating in Albany? If I wasn't busy tonight I'd go down to South Station and see for myself.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Stopped by ALX to see #95, which was running about 1/2 hour late. While there a CSX frieght rolled through southbound. A sharp contrast to yesterday, when the station was locked up and empty, with all three tracks rusty and quiet.


----------



## River in Sight

Just got an update from Amtrak via phone that the Empire Service will not be running tomorrow. There had been no decision made (at least per the agent that I spoke with) about what will happen with the long-distance trains.


----------



## CHamilton

> AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 1
> 
> by Amtrak on Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 1:27pm ·
> 
> Modified Northeast Regional service between Boston and New Haven, Conn.; and between Newark, N.J., and points south; more overnight train service restoration; New York City service planning underway for Friday, Nov. 2
> 
> Amtrak will provide modified Northeast Regional service between Boston and New Haven, Conn., and between Newark, N.J., and points south, on Thursday, November 1. Amtrak will also operate Shuttle service trains between Springfield, Mass., and New Haven, Keystone Service trains between Harrisburg, Penn., and Philadelphia, and Downeaster service trains between Boston and Portland, Maine, along with additional overnight services to and from the Northeast.
> 
> Amtrak is continuing to remove water from tunnels in order to make repairs to track, signal and power systems under the Hudson and East rivers and to restore service to and from Penn Station in New York City. Amtrak is planning to operate modified service to and from New York City on Friday, November 2, with schedules to be announced on Thursday, November 1.
> 
> In the meantime, there will be no Northeast Regional service between Newark and New Haven and no Acela Express service for the length of the Northeast Corridor on Thursday, November 1.
> 
> Other service plans, full and partial service, for Thursday, November1:
> 
> 
> Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate only between Washington D.C. and New Orleans
> 
> Capitol Limited (Train 30), will operate normally Chicago-Washington, D.C.
> 
> Pennsylvanian (Trains 42 & 43), will operate only between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia
> 
> Cardinal (Train 50) will operate only between Chicago and Indianapolis
> 
> Auto Train (Trains 52 & 53), will operate normally Lorton, Va.-Sanford, Fla.
> 
> Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer
> 
> Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80) will operate only between Philadelphia and Charlotte
> 
> Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will only operate between Miami and Jacksonville, Fla.
> 
> Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) will operate between Washington D.C. and Miami
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally between Chicago and Boston, with no (Trains 48 & 49) service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer
> 
> 
> Canceled on Thursday, November 1, is the Empire Service between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt., due to track damage south of Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y.
> 
> The following services are also canceled for Thursday, November 1:
> 
> 
> Capitol Limited (Train 29), Washington-Chicago
> 
> Vermonter (Trains 55 & 56), St. Albans, Vt.-Washington, D.C.
> 
> Palmetto (Trains 89 & 90), New York-Savannah, including connecting Amtrak Thruway Bus Service
> 
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Amtrak will update this statement by Thursday evening, November 1.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## afigg

Ok, good news then. There will be at least some service to NYP on Friday. And at least the A train is running to NYP so there will be some subway service. Metro-North is still repairing damage between Stamford and New Haven, so BOS-NYP restoration may take a little longer. I don't see projected restoration of service dates for the Hudson River line.

Any bets as to when Amtrak might get back to full service?


----------



## AlanB

afigg said:


> I don't see projected restoration of service dates for the Hudson River line.


Doesn't sound good for the Hudson line, Major washouts, several substations that flooded killing power. My guess, and I stress guess, is that there will be no service at all until Saturday and then only limited service.



afigg said:


> Any bets as to when Amtrak might get back to full service?


No bets on full service, but Amtrak tweets suggest restoring service to NYP from the south for Friday. They claim they'll run a modified schedule, whatever that means, for Friday.

No word on points north of there. My guess is again some time this weekend at the earliest.


----------



## NE933

This is Robert, aka NE933, texting from cell. Queens have lot of phones out, but wanted to reassure all I made it ok to my Astoria home. Never missed my garbage and furniture so much and my folks are ok! Thanks for all your prayers and thoght, will give more info when connections restore God speed & take care y'all..


----------



## AlanB

Metro North is now reporting that they'll extend service tomorrow north from the current terminus of North White Plains to Mt. Kisco. They can't get further north due to power plant damage. Not quite sure why they're not going to try to offer some limited diesel service however.

Also expected is a return of service to the New Haven line from Grand Central to Stamford.


----------



## crescent2

Good news, Robert!

Lots of prayers and good wishes have been going for you folks in the NE from the rest of the country.


----------



## TimePeace

I heard on the radio (NPR affiliate) that Downeaster made a few runs today, but not all - there were some problems.

All runs are expected to be run tomorrow.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

I just heard on WNBC hitchhiking is being encouraged. I thought I heard Chuck Scarborough also say cars with fewer than 3 pax are not being allowed to cross bridges into the City, but I might have heard that wrong.


----------



## TimePeace

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I thought I heard Chuck Scarborough also say cars with fewer than 3 pax are not being allowed to cross bridges into the City, but I might have heard that wrong.


True


----------



## CHamilton

> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority distributed links to a (.pdf) map of the partial service planned to begin at 6 a.m. Thursday via its @MTAInsider Twitter feed.


Here's a Scribd link. Click the plus sign at top to enlarge.


----------



## jis

LIRR has restored service from Jamaica to Penn Station


----------



## Railroad Bill

Have some friends who are scheduled on the Capitol Ltd on Sunday from CLE to CHI. Looks like the #29 is still not running tomorrow (Thursday).

They are a bit concerned about this but I am hoping they will have 29 back in service by Sunday. :unsure:

There are still seats on the Lake Shore for Sunday and I suppose they could try to transfer over to 449 if necessary.

They will be taking their first trip on Amtrak via SW Chief to LA, then Coast Starlight to Emeryville and they return on the CZ.

We spent so much time helping them plan for this. Hope things get straightened out before long.

(Yes, I realize this is a minor affair compared to the tragedy in the Northeast, but I am trying to recruit more passengers for Amtrak :giggle:


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> LIRR has restored service from Jamaica to Penn Station


The restored LIRR service is from Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal/Brooklyn, with shuttle buses from there to Manhattan.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> LIRR has restored service from Jamaica to Penn Station
> 
> 
> 
> The restored LIRR service is from Jamaica to Atlantic Terminal/Brooklyn, with shuttle buses from there to Manhattan.
Click to expand...

Actually the buses aren't scheduled until tomorrow for Brooklyn to Manhattan. Today it was just a shuttle service by train.

That said, the LIRR is indeed reporting that they're restored actual train service to Manhattan via the Main Line to Penn.



> LIRR is currently operating hourly train service between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal/Brooklyn and between Jamaica and Penn Stations. Trains Depart Jamaica at 10 minutes past the hour. Trains Depart Penn at 52 minutes past the hour and Atlantic Terminal at 50 minutes past the hour.
> _Temporary schedule change for LIRR trains to Brooklyn. Prior to midnight tonight, LIRR trains to Brooklyn will depart Jamaica Station at :10 minutes past the hour. After midnight, trains to Brooklyn will depart at :45 minutes past the hour._


----------



## afigg

Railroad Bill said:


> Have some friends who are scheduled on the Capitol Ltd on Sunday from CLE to CHI. Looks like the #29 is still not running tomorrow (Thursday).
> 
> They are a bit concerned about this but I am hoping they will have 29 back in service by Sunday. :unsure:


Check the Amtrak Service Alert bulletin posted late this afternoon. The #30 CL will operate CHI-WAS starting on Thursday. #29 is not running on Thursday, but I would expect it will depart from WAS on Friday, once #30 gets the equipment to WAS.


----------



## AlanB

Railroad Bill said:


> Have some friends who are scheduled on the Capitol Ltd on Sunday from CLE to CHI. Looks like the #29 is still not running tomorrow (Thursday).
> 
> They are a bit concerned about this but I am hoping they will have 29 back in service by Sunday. :unsure:
> 
> There are still seats on the Lake Shore for Sunday and I suppose they could try to transfer over to 449 if necessary.
> 
> They will be taking their first trip on Amtrak via SW Chief to LA, then Coast Starlight to Emeryville and they return on the CZ.
> 
> We spent so much time helping them plan for this. Hope things get straightened out before long.
> 
> (Yes, I realize this is a minor affair compared to the tragedy in the Northeast, but I am trying to recruit more passengers for Amtrak :giggle:


Bill,

I wouldn't panic yet. MARC has restored train service to the line that they share with the Capitol, so it would not surprise me if the Cap starts running this weekend. In fact, I'm not exactly sure why Amtrak isn't running the train at this point.


----------



## jis

Bill, no, LIRR has actually started running to Penn Station starting around 7pm I believe. At least that is what their tweet said.

(null)


----------



## AlanB

More details about the LIRR service in the morning:



> Ronkonkoma Branch Service:
> Limited hourly service on the Ronkonkoma Branch starts Thursday, 11/1, with the 5:37AM train from Ronkonkoma to Penn being the first w/b train and the 7:09AM train from Penn to Ronkonkoma being the first e/b train. These trains are scheduled to stop at Ronkonkoma, Central Islip, Brentwood, Deer Park, Wyandanch, Farmingdale, Bethpage, Hicksville and Jamaica. Due to the expected high volume of customers traveling, customers are advised to delay their departure times throughout the day to ease overcrowding.
> 
> LIRR is currently operating hourly train service between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal/Brooklyn and between Jamaica and Penn Stations. Trains Depart Jamaica at 10 minutes past the hour. Trains Depart Penn at 52 minutes past the hour and Atlantic Terminal at 50 minutes past the hour.





> Port Washington Branch Service:
> Limited hourly service between Great Neck and Penn starts Thursday, November 1, with the 5:45AM train from Great Neck to Penn being the first w/b train and the 5:14AM train from Penn to Great Neck being the first e/b train. Service east of Great Neck remains suspended. Due to the expected high volume of customers traveling, customers are advised to delay their departure times throughout the day to ease overcrowding.
> 
> LIRR is currently operating hourly train service between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal/Brooklyn and between Jamaica and Penn Stations. Trains Depart Jamaica at 10 minutes past the hour. Trains Depart Penn at 52 minutes past the hour and Atlantic Terminal at 50 minutes past the hour.


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> Bill, no, LIRR has actually started running to Penn Station starting around 7pm I believe. At least that is what their tweet said.
> 
> (null)


You're correct. I missed the LIRR update.


----------



## CHamilton

> Cuomo Waives M.T.A. Fares for Thursday and Friday
> 
> Gov. Andrew Cuomo declared a transportation emergency Wednesday night and said all fares on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s commuter trains, subways and buses would be waived on Thursday and Friday.
> 
> ...Joseph Lhota, the chairman of the M.T.A., said that roughly half of the commuters who take Metro-North trains would see regular service starting Thursday morning. The Harlem and the New Haven lines will both be running normal schedules to Grand Central Station, he said.


----------



## CHamilton

> Here's a full list of subway, commuter rail, bridge and bus availability and alternative options via The Associated Press:
> 
> ...
> 
> NJ TRANSIT
> 
> Rail services remains suspended on all lines. There is no estimated time for the resumption of service
> 
> Most bus service was restored by Thursday morning, but passengers will have to pay fares and should expect delays
> 
> Hudson-Bergen Light Rail and Newark Light Rail service remains suspended until further notice
> 
> River Line Light Rail service resumed at 3 p.m. Wednesday between Walter Rand Transportation Center in Camden and Trenton Transit Center, operating every 30 minutes. Service remains suspended between Walter Rand Transportation Center and the Entertainment Center
> 
> Access Link Paratransit Service remains suspended. There is no estimated time for restoration
> 
> LONG ISLAND RAIL ROAD:
> 
> City Terminal – (Jamaica - Penn Station): LIMITED: Starting 7:10 p.m. Wednesday, hourly; off-peak trains stop at Kew Gardens and Woodside.
> 
> Ronkonkoma Branch: LIMITED: Main Line to Penn Station, hourly
> 
> Port Washington Branch: LIMITED: Great Neck to Penn Station, hourly
> 
> Babylon Branch: Suspended
> 
> Port Jefferson Branch: Suspended
> 
> Montauk Branch: Suspended
> 
> Hempstead Branch: Suspended
> 
> Long Beach: Suspended
> 
> Far Rockaway: Suspended
> 
> Oyster Bay Branch: Suspended
> 
> West Hempstead: Suspended
> 
> METRO-NORTH:
> 
> Hudson Line: Suspended
> 
> Upper Harlem Line: Suspended
> 
> Lower Harlem Line: LIMITED
> 
> New Haven Line: LIMITED
> 
> New Canaan Branch: Suspended
> 
> Danbury Branch: Suspended
> 
> Waterbury Branch: Suspended
> 
> West-of-Hudson:
> 
> Pascack Valley: Suspended
> 
> Port Jervis: Suspended


In related news, AU member jis is reporting:



> We lost cell service this morning as cell towers ran out of gas driving their generators. Gas is hard to come by. Hopefully they will recharge them during the day.


----------



## CHamilton

Amtrak posts on Facebook:



> Amtrak
> 
> At this time we are planning to have an update regarding service for Friday, November 2 around 2 p.m. today. We want to thank all of our passengers for their patience as we work to restore service after Hurricane Sandy. If the update is going to be significantly delayed we will let you know.


----------



## PRR 60

Here is a photo set from NJ Transit including some taken at Penn Station.

Photos


----------



## CHamilton

PRR 60 said:


> Here is a photo set from NJ Transit including some taken at Penn Station.
> 
> Photos


What a bleeping mess. They're going to have lots of work to do. Thanks for posting.


----------



## CHamilton

> La Guardia Airport Reopens; So Does Air Train to J.F.K.
> 
> Air travel eased a little bit more on Thursday as La Guardia Airport, which had been shut down because of severe flooding from Hurricane Sandy, opened at 7 a.m., the third and last of the major New York City area airports to resume some services.
> 
> Some service was also restored Thursday on the Air Train to Kennedy International Airport, which connects the subway and train complex in Jamaica, Queens, to the airport. Long Island Rail Road trains are still down, but there is some subway service to Jamaica.


----------



## CHamilton

> AMTRAK CLEARS WATER FROM ONE OF THE HUDSON RIVER TUNNELSby Amtrak on Thursday, November 1, 2012 at 10:33am ·
> 
> Repairs continue, test train to operate later today; New York City service restoration pending
> 
> Amtrak engineering and transportation forces are working together to restore service to and from New York City from points south and north on the Northeast Corridor.
> 
> Water has been pumped from one of the two Amtrak tunnels under the Hudson River and repairs continue in order to operate modified service. Among the procedures being followed is the operation of a test train -- without public passengers -- between New York City and Newark, N.J.
> 
> Amtrak will make an announcement later today regarding service restoration at New York City. When service resumes, it will subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> Reservations and ticketing for the modified service is not yet available. Passengers for the service will be asked to make reservations and/or use the eTicketing option with their computers and smartphones before traveling to Penn Station New York, 30th Street Station in Philadelphia or other Amtrak locations.
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## amamba

So I just called amtrak at 1800USARAIL to try to confirm if the 177 was operating this evening from BOS - PVD. My husband is in BOS today for work after taking the MBTA in this morning.

The woman on the phone was the nastiest and stupidest woman I have ever encountered working at amtrak. I was super nice and just asked if she could confirm if the 177 was running, and she told me that there was no service at all out of BOS. I asked her to double check as I had read online that modified service was running today between BOS and NHV. Then she comes back and says that there is no service between Newark and New Haven. I asked her if she could confirm that train 177 was running and she said she had no idea. Then she said she thought it was but that there would be no trains at all tomorrow out of BOS. Then she kept repeating that there were no trains between Newark and New Haven. I don't know if maybe she was geography challenged and didn't realize that Boston and Providence is completely north of that section? And why would the train be running today but NOT tomorrow?

Through all of this she was really nasty and rude to me. I am always soooo nice to people on the phone, and I have no idea what was wrong with this woman. Normally I would cut them some slack but this one took the cake.

I would call back to clarify, but I had to wait 20 minutes on hold.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

To keep the tunnels from flooding - Plug 'em! With really BIG plugs. They are a couple of years off,, but they are being developed...

Article here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/31/us/new-york-subway-plugs/index.html?hpt=hp_c2


----------



## BLOND37

* Modified New York service now available to points south, New York-Boston and other announcements pending*

November 1, 2012

4:00 p.m. ET
​
Amtrak is now taking reservations for modified service starting this evening between New York City and points south, including Trenton and Philadelphia.
​

Before traveling to Penn Station New York, 30th Street Station in Philadelphia or other Amtrak locations, passengers should make reservations and/or use the eTicketing option with their computers and smartphones.
​

Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
​

Later, Amtrak will also announce plans to provide the first modified Northeast Regional service between New York City and Boston, modified Acela Express service and plans to restore other services that have been suspended due to Hurricane Sandy.
​

Repairs by other track owners also continue for the route between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer, with no estimate available for a restoration date for Empire Service trains between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt.
​

Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.

 

Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
​
To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
​
Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.
​


----------



## johnny.menhennet

Gov. Cuomo just announced that the Hudson Line will be operating at full service all the way to Croton-Harmon tomorrow as well as full Harlem Line service. Hopefully we'll start to see Amtrak service up to Albany by Friday or even Saturday as well.


----------



## Shawn Ryu

Kudos to everyone getting service back online as quick as possible. dont think the job could have been done any better.


----------



## CHamilton

> Some N.J. Transit Rail Service Will Resume on Friday
> 
> New Jersey Transit rail service, which has been suspended since Hurricane Sandy, will resume limited service on Friday, Gov. Chris Christie announced Thursday night. But service to New York Penn Station will remain suspended, with trains terminating in Newark.
> 
> Three lines will be running, all of them on special schedules:
> 
> • Northeast Corridor trains will resume between Trenton and Newark Penn Station.
> 
> • The North Jersey Coast Line will run between Woodbridge and Newark Penn Station, but service between Bay Head and Woodbridge will remain suspended.
> 
> • The Raritan Valley Line will resume between Raritan and Newark Penn Station, but service between High Bridge and Raritan will remain suspended.


----------



## AlanB

from the MTA of the pump train working down at South Ferry. When this video was shot the pump train was right at the interlocking where the old line to the South Ferry loop intersects with the new line to the relatively new station that opened about 2 years ago or so. As a guess, that puts the train at least 3 blocks away from the actual station, maybe more.


----------



## Nathanael

johnny.menhennet said:


> Gov. Cuomo just announced that the Hudson Line will be operating at full service all the way to Croton-Harmon tomorrow as well as full Harlem Line service. Hopefully we'll start to see Amtrak service up to Albany by Friday or even Saturday as well.


This depends on how fast a massive washout can be fixed north of Croton-Harmon, which is said to require "eight rail cars of ballast". That will probably have to be delivered from the north by rail, which means the line has to be restored from Albany down to Cortlandt first, and I have no idea how fast that's going. In fact, I'm not even sure who's doing it -- the line is CSX-controlled north of Poughkeepsie but was scheduled to be transferred to Amtrak tomorrow!

There also may be problems in the Empire Connection tunnel near Penn Station, I've heard no reports on that, but areas directly over it were flooded...


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> There also may be problems in the Empire Connection tunnel near Penn Station, I've heard no reports on that, but areas directly over it were flooded...


That Empire Connection tunnel comes in on the southern side of Penn by 31st Street. The flooding came through from the LIRR Westend yard on the north side by 33rd. Street. In between are the two North River tubes, which took all the water that made it past the barrier that the LIRR had erected in the hope of stopping all flooding. Sadly the river and tidal surge over topped the barrier for a few hours, which is what led to the flooding in the tunnels.

So those tunnels in effect saved the Empire Corridor's tunnel. Of course I'm sure that Amtrak would have preferred the opposite!


----------



## Phil S

Amtrak reports #80 into NYP just a little late. Doesn't list times for Trenton or Newark.

PHL * * 1 711P * 712P Departed: 1 minute late.

TRE * * 1 743P

NWK * * 1 823P

* NYP 1 843P * * 918P * Arrived: 35 minutes late.

I'm wondering if it bypassed those stations and if so what track it was running on? Or maybe the stations are closed so couldn't discharge passengers? Or maybe just nobody logged the times.

Still pretty impressive to have service back up this soon.


----------



## CHamilton

> AMTRAK NORTHEAST CORRIDOR SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 2
> 
> Acela Express and Northeast Regional modified service Boston-New York City-Washington, D.C.; other services also restored following Hurricane Sandy
> 
> November 1, 2012
> 
> 6:30 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak will provide Acela Express and Northeast Regional modified service on the Northeast Corridor between Boston and Washington, D.C., via New York City, on Friday, November 2. Before traveling to Boston-South Station, New York-Penn Station, Philadelphia-30th Street Station, or other Amtrak locations, passengers should make reservations and/or use the eTicketing option with their computers and smartphones.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> Other plans, full and modified service, for Friday, November 2:
> 
> Keystone Service trains to and from Harrisburg, Penn., will primarily originate and terminate in Philadelphia, rather than New York
> 
> Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate only between Washington D.C. and New Orleans, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Pennsylvanian (Trains 42 & 43), will operate normally Pittsburgh-New York
> 
> Cardinal (Train 51) will operate only between Indianapolis and Chicago, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Vermonter (Train 55) will originate in Springfield, Mass., rather than St. Albans, Vt., while Vermonter (Train 56) will operate normally from Washington, D.C., and terminate in St. Albans
> 
> Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80) will operate normally New York-Charlotte
> 
> Palmetto (Trains 89 & 90) will operate normally New York-Savannah, including connecting Amtrak Thruway Bus Service
> 
> Silver Star (Train 91) will originate in Jacksonville, rather than New York and (Train 92) will operate normally between Miami and New York
> 
> Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) will operate normally New York-Miami
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally Chicago-Boston, with no service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer, rather than (Trains 48 & 49) originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Repairs by other track owners also continue for the route between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer, with no estimate available for a restoration date for Empire Service trains between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt.
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Amtrak will update this statement by Friday evening, November 2.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


----------



## johnny.menhennet

CHamilton said:


> AMTRAK NORTHEAST CORRIDOR SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 2
> 
> Acela Express and Northeast Regional modified service Boston-New York City-Washington, D.C.; other services also restored following Hurricane Sandy
> 
> November 1, 2012
> 
> 6:30 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak will provide Acela Express and Northeast Regional modified service on the Northeast Corridor between Boston and Washington, D.C., via New York City, on Friday, November 2. Before traveling to Boston-South Station, New York-Penn Station, Philadelphia-30th Street Station, or other Amtrak locations, passengers should make reservations and/or use the eTicketing option with their computers and smartphones.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> Other plans, full and modified service, for Friday, November 2:
> 
> Keystone Service trains to and from Harrisburg, Penn., will primarily originate and terminate in Philadelphia, rather than New York
> 
> Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate only between Washington D.C. and New Orleans, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Pennsylvanian (Trains 42 & 43), will operate normally Pittsburgh-New York
> 
> Cardinal (Train 51) will operate only between Indianapolis and Chicago, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Vermonter (Train 55) will originate in Springfield, Mass., rather than St. Albans, Vt., while Vermonter (Train 56) will operate normally from Washington, D.C., and terminate in St. Albans
> 
> Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Carolinian (Trains 79 & 80) will operate normally New York-Charlotte
> 
> Palmetto (Trains 89 & 90) will operate normally New York-Savannah, including connecting Amtrak Thruway Bus Service
> 
> Silver Star (Train 91) will originate in Jacksonville, rather than New York and (Train 92) will operate normally between Miami and New York
> 
> Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) will operate normally New York-Miami
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally Chicago-Boston, with no service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer, rather than (Trains 48 & 49) originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Repairs by other track owners also continue for the route between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer, with no estimate available for a restoration date for Empire Service trains between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt.
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Amtrak will update this statement by Friday evening, November 2.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.
Click to expand...

Fantastic! Great news all around. I am very impressed with Amtrak's progress, and the progress by all transportation agencies throughout this. Although it left a lot to be desired, I'd still say Amtrak has been better about updating the status throughout the storm and recovery than previously. Glad to see things returning to normal, and I'm especially glad that the damaged and in some places fully-down catenary on the New Haven Line was restored to be able to provide service.


----------



## Carolyn Jane

Now, why can the Silver Meteor operate normally all the way to NYC, but the Silver Star only go as far north as JAX? CJ


----------



## CHamilton

johnny.menhennet said:


> Although it left a lot to be desired, I'd still say Amtrak has been better about updating the status throughout the storm and recovery than previously.


I think you're right. Someone at Amtrak has finally figured out how to update their website, although it generally takes them longer to do that than to post the same material on Facebook and Twitter.


----------



## Nathanael

Carolyn Jane said:


> Now, why can the Silver Meteor operate normally all the way to NYC, but the Silver Star only go as far north as JAX? CJ


This is equipment positioning again; the same reason why the Capitol Limited only ran one-way the first day it was restored, and why the Vermonter is running to St. Albans in one direction and not the other on Friday.

During the NEC shutdown, the Silver Meteor ran to WAS and the Silver Star shuttled around Florida. No, I'm not sure why they didn't go to WAS, but that seems to be a common 'emergency operations plan' for Amtrak; they've done it before; perhaps without New York City service there just isn't enough demand to run both the Star and the Meteor.

So, too many Silver Star trainsets are in Florida. The southbound has to start at JAX because that's where it *is*. The northbound will run all the way through to NYP, and then turn to become a southbound, and we'll eventually get back to normal.

Exactly how many days of "half moves" are necessary depends on exactly how many of the trainsets were moved to Florida, which of course I don't know, versus how many were kept in Washington or somewhere similarly 'north'. I'm sure Amtrak is trying to get everything up and running ASAP.


----------



## Anderson

Carolyn Jane said:


> Now, why can the Silver Meteor operate normally all the way to NYC, but the Silver Star only go as far north as JAX? CJ


A couple of sets of equipment got trapped in Sunnyside, I think. I'd expect the Star to be heading "back to normal" in a day or two, but...note that Amtrak ran the Meteor only to WAS as the storm was approaching. They were trying to keep equipment out of the NEC. The only shame is that they weren't able to deadhead some more equipment out of Sunnyside ahead of the storm, but...eh, nobody knew how bad this was going to get.


----------



## AlanB

Anderson said:


> The only shame is that they weren't able to deadhead some more equipment out of Sunnyside ahead of the storm, but...eh, nobody knew how bad this was going to get.


While the storm was a bit worse than expected, they didn't dead head more equipment out because they knew it was safe. NY has 3 flood zone areas. Sunnyside is partly in zone 2 and part in zone 3. Only zone 1 was ever affected by the storm in terms of storm surge. So the equipment was quite safe.

What no one expected was the fact that the surge would over top the barrier that the LIRR erected to stop the expected flooding in the West End yard from flooding the North River tunnels. I'm still trying to figure out just how the surge reached the East River tunnels, or rather how it hit 2 of the 4 tunnels. The Line 2 tunnel shown in the video opening is within the zone 1 or A flood zone which was impacted by the surge. So it does make some sense that tunnel went down. But the other 3 tunnels all open within the zone 2 or B area which was out of the impacted area.


----------



## Anderson

If you find out, let me know; I'm wondering about the dynamics of all of this. Likewise, I'm also wondering about how they're handling turning subway trains at Penn Station (i.e. are there enough crossover tracks to let them shift trains over to the opposite direction platforms? Or are they just using the express tracks for the reversals?).


----------



## Carolyn Jane

I know they ran 98 northbound on Wed., and again yesterday. CJ


----------



## Anderson

Yeah, I know that 98 ran NB on Wednesday. I was on it (for the 4:20 AM arrival in Richmond). The questions are surrounding 92/91 (running only intrastate in Florida).


----------



## afigg

Surprised this did not get discussed yesterday, but Amtrak is in discussions with NJ Transit to provide Amtrak equipment to make up for the flood damaged NJT rolling stock and is talking to VIA about leasing VIA equipment for the NY state corridor services to make up for the equipment Amtrak may send to NJT. So VIA is a fall-back for a possible source of intercity passenger cars.

Wash Post article: "Amtrak to restore service from NYC to Boston on Friday, and send equipment to help NJ". It may behind a subscription wall, but this is a AP story, so it should be available elsewhere.

Key excerpt:



> Boardman said he has also had discussions with Marc Laliberte, the president and chief executive of Via Rail Canada in Montreal, about borrowing trains for Amtrak’s New York state service. If that can be arranged, it would free up other Amtrak trains that could be sent to hard-hit New Jersey to provide commuter service, he said
> The discussions were ongoing and no decision had been reached, Boardman said.
> 
> “We’re looking for ways to help,” he said. “We intend to be a major force to deliver mobility back to the Northeast.”


----------



## Tracktwentynine

Anderson said:


> If you find out, let me know; I'm wondering about the dynamics of all of this. Likewise, I'm also wondering about how they're handling turning subway trains at Penn Station (i.e. are there enough crossover tracks to let them shift trains over to the opposite direction platforms? Or are they just using the express tracks for the reversals?).


NYCSubway.org has a full set of track maps for the subway system.

The 34th Street/Penn Station stations are on the Midtown map.


----------



## amamba

My H rode the 66 this morning from BOS - PVD PVD - BOS. It was practically empty. Very strange. The train was listed as sold out online and the ticket agents were not able to sell tickets for it, so the conductors made an announcement (there is generally 10 minutes dwell time) that anyone that didn't have a ticket should buy a ticket for the 190 and then just use it on the 66.


----------



## AlanB

Tracktwentynine said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you find out, let me know; I'm wondering about the dynamics of all of this. Likewise, I'm also wondering about how they're handling turning subway trains at Penn Station (i.e. are there enough crossover tracks to let them shift trains over to the opposite direction platforms? Or are they just using the express tracks for the reversals?).
> 
> 
> 
> The 34th Street/Penn Station stations are on the Midtown map.
Click to expand...

As shown on the map linked to by Track29, the A trains pull into 34th Street on the local track making their final stop at 34th and discharging all pax. Then then pull out southbound and use the interlocking south of the station to cross to that middle layup track, change ends, and then pull out heading northbound to return to 168th Street on the local track.

In the case of the #1 & #2 trains, they pull into 42nd Street on the local track. Upon leaving there, they must cross over to the express track to pull into 34th Street. After discharging there, they change ends right on the express platform and pull back out north using the layup track in the middle so as to be able to cross over to the local track just south of 42nd Street.

It is because of this limited ability to turn trains in this are that normal service is not running on these lines. Normal rush hour service on the #1 for example would see a train every 2 to 3 minutes. AFAIK they're still running on 10 minute headways all day long because they simply cannot turn trains any faster at 34th Street.

This is why the ability of ConEd to restore power south of 39th Street is so critical. With that power back on, they could turn the #2 trains at 34th Street more or less normally by running them down the express tracks from 96th Street and probably even restore the #3 service. The #1 trains would continue down the local tracks all the way to Chambers Street, before they reversed ends. Similar arrangements could be done with the A & C trains, turning the express at 34th and the local at Chambers.

Or course it would help far more to get the East River tunnels back open, and I understand that the MTA is actually ready to restore 1 tunnel to service between lower Manhattan & Brooklyn once ConEd can provide power to them for the tunnel and the tracks in lower Manhattan. Even if they have no power for stations, they could at least run express through the blacked out area, relieving pressure on the buses if only they had power.


----------



## AlanB

And here's the Friday update for Saturday:



> AMTRAK NORTHEAST CORRIDOR SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 3 AND NOVEMBER 4Acela Express and Northeast Regional regular weekend service Boston-New York City-Washington, D.C.: most overnight service is restored
> 
> November 2, 2012
> 
> 2:45 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak will provide Acela Express and Northeast Regional regular weekend service on the Northeast Corridor between Boston and Washington, D.C., via New York City, on Saturday, November 3 and Sunday, November 4. To avoid the possibility of long lines at ticket offices and sold-out trains, passengers should make reservations and payment in advance through Amtrak.com, through the Amtrak app on a smartphone, or by calling 800-USA-RAIL.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> Other plans, full and modified service, for Saturday, November 3 and Sunday, November 4:
> 
> Keystone Service trains will operate normally between Harrisburg, Penn., and New York
> 
> Crescent (Trains 19 & 20) will operate normally between New York and New Orleans
> 
> Cardinal (Train 50) will operate normally between Chicago and New York
> 
> Vermonter (Trains 54 & 57) will operate normally between St. Albans, Vt., and New York
> 
> Maple Leaf (Trains 63 & 64) will operate only between Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Albany-Rensselaer, rather than originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) will operate normally between Miami and New York
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally Chicago-Boston, with no service to points south of Albany-Rensselaer, rather than (Trains 48 & 49) originating and terminating in New York
> 
> Repairs by other track owners also continue for the route between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer, with no estimate available for a restoration date for Empire Service trains between New York City and Buffalo/Niagara Falls, the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt.
> 
> Customers are encouraged to monitor Amtrak.com/alerts and those Northeast Corridor passengers on Acela Express, Northeast Regional or Keystone Service trains can follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter to be notified when updates are posted on Amtrak.com. Amtrak will also be providing updates on its Facebook.com/Amtrak and Twitter.com/Amtrak pages.
> 
> Amtrak will update this statement by Saturday evening, November 3, for service beginning Monday, November 5.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.


The full press release can be found here.


----------



## gnznroses

I have a scheduled trip on the 50 Cardinal on Sunday morning, from WV to NY. It's scheduled to get there at 10PM and every time I've taken this trip it gets there between 1AM and 2AM. Earlier this year I took the Cardinal to Philly and it got there at about 2AM, so NY was at least 3AM.

I caled Amtrak and asked about delays, and they said the train will likely be operating at slower speeds (no doubt between DC and NY, when it's often ~120 MPH i believe). I can imagine the train getting there after sunrise... They suggest it won't be very late. Anyone know what kind of delays they're seeing now on similar routes? I'm very tempted to drive instead.


----------



## gatelouse

DC-NY trains are only seeing ~10 minute delays now, which should improve further by Sunday. I doubt any delays for 50 would be on the corridor.


----------



## afigg

gnznroses said:


> I have a scheduled trip on the 50 Cardinal on Sunday morning, from WV to NY. It's scheduled to get there at 10PM and every time I've taken this trip it gets there between 1AM and 2AM. Earlier this year I took the Cardinal to Philly and it got there at about 2AM, so NY was at least 3AM.
> 
> I caled Amtrak and asked about delays, and they said the train will likely be operating at slower speeds (no doubt between DC and NY, when it's often ~120 MPH i believe). I can imagine the train getting there after sunrise... They suggest it won't be very late. Anyone know what kind of delays they're seeing now on similar routes? I'm very tempted to drive instead.


The #50 Cardinal on-time performance has gotten better in recent months. Of course, with the amount of snow in WV, the train may get delayed running through WV and on the Buckingham Branch. The Cardinal is limited to 110 mph on the NEC because of the Heritage baggage car and Viewliner sleeper.

But, here are the times for the 4 eastbound trips using Amtrak Status map archives to look them up:

#50 (10/20) arrived WAS 1 hr 57 minutes late, arrived NYP 1:44 late

#50 (10/23) arrived WAS 1:14 late, arrived NYP 1:16 late

#50 (10/25) arrived WAS 7 minutes early, arrived NYP 27 mins early - probably one of the best runs in a long time

#50 (10/27) departed IND 1:20 late, arrived WAS 1:15 late, arrived NYP 1:10 late

So 1 trip to NYP getting in early, 3 arriving NYP between 1:10 and 1:44 late. At least they all arrived NYP before midnight. The trip this Sunday could be late because of the storm damage, but then again, if your end destination is the NYC region, driving may run into any number of traffic jams or closed roads in the Metro region.


----------



## gnznroses

I must have bad luck because every train that I take up that way is extremely late. From my experience recent months have been no better. I had trips in May and August.

That's good to hear about the minor delays between DC and NY.


----------



## CHamilton

> Full Metro-North Upper Hudson Line Service to Begin
> 
> Full train service will resume Saturday morning on Metro-North Railroad’s Upper Hudson Line from Croton-Harmon to Poughkeepsie, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said Friday.


----------



## AlanB

A late update from Amtrak, announcing the restoration of Empire Service:



> AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 3 AND NOVEMBER 4
> Modified Empire Service between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer this Saturday; Acela Express and Northeast Regional weekend schedules in effect Boston-New York City-Washington, D.C.
> 
> November 2, 2012
> 
> 8:30 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak is restoring Empire Service trains between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer on a modified schedule on Saturday, November 3. Amtrak will update this statement by Saturday evening, November 3, for Empire Service trains on Sunday, November 4, and other service beginning Monday, November 5.
> 
> Repairs by other track owners continue for the route between New York and Albany-Rensselaer, with no estimate available for a restoration date for the Adirondack (Trains 68 & 69) to and from Montreal, Québec, Canada, and the Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) to and from Rutland, Vt.
> 
> As previously announced, Amtrak will provide Acela Express and Northeast Regional trains on weekend schedules on the Northeast Corridor between Boston and Washington, D.C., via New York City, on Saturday, November 3 and Sunday, November 4.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.


The full press release can be found here.


----------



## AlanB

And of course in a sign of both normalcy in the sense that things are going back to normal, but also a sign of idiocy, I just monitored a call from a train requesting to go out of service because some clown decided to spray paint graffiti in one car of the subway consist. 

We already don't have enough service on our trains, and now one has to go out of service because of an idiot!


----------



## Travis

"Other plans, full and modified service, for Saturday, November 3 and Sunday, November 4:

Cardinal (Train 50) will operate normally between Chicago and New York"

What about train 51?? That's the one that goes from NYP to Chicago on Sunday, November 4. They don't mention it at all. How do we figure out if it's running? Why did their release omit it?


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Travis said:


> "Other plans, full and modified service, for Saturday, November 3 and Sunday, November 4:
> 
> Cardinal (Train 50) will operate normally between Chicago and New York"
> 
> What about train 51?? That's the one that goes from NYP to Chicago on Sunday, November 4. They don't mention it at all. How do we figure out if it's running? Why did their release omit it?


I would think it is running, but I'd call the 800 number and ask. The omittance was probably an oversight considering all the chaos brought on by Sandy and her aftermath.

BTW - According to another thread in this topic area, 50 will not have the Great Dome on it. That thread reported The Dome was having a mechanical problems.


----------



## AlanB

another video from the MTA from yesterday showing the incredible damage that the South Ferry station on the #1 line suffered from the flooding. Flooding so bad and forceful that it bent railings and pulled down walls and stuff. And the station still isn't even dry yet, they're still busy pumping things out before they can even start to think of repairing the damage.  
Three days of pumping and they've still got water!


----------



## NE933

Howdeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyy!!! What a week. My area of Queens, NY has very poor internet, cellphones came back yesterday but can go out a moments notice. TV breaks up, am/fm radio the only working electronic. My folks at Lower Manhattan just got back power yesterday, their internet is very good and what i'm using now.

A major subway recovery was the return of 4,5,6 east side trains all the way to lower Manhattan, where the last couple days went only as far as 34th street, forcing a 4 mile walk roundtrip. Buses were jammed and the soure of delays and fights similar to the lines at gas stations, truly apocolyptic hearing people screaming they need to get to doctor or to see their children. Never saw this live, with my own eyes and ears before.

If you're familiar with NYC Subways, the N was the fastest because it interchanges with only one other line, which was not working, making ffor fast handlng and turnounds at 34th st, no conflicts when trains switch from one side, cross two express tracks and reverse. The F, M, D, and Q was another story: two of these join at an interlocking at 47th/Rockefeller, just two stations away, which overwhelmed 34th's ability to serve as a terminal and cross over trains to turn them around, i quickly found out yestrday when my jam packed M train was stuck under the East river, for 45 minutes, in a place that was under water a day earlier. I was praying not to go like this, if you know what i mean. People start looking at each other with the sense if the end is coming we want to know who we went with. That's what happened in the World Trade Towers on 9/11.

Todays much better, though far from finished. The South Ferry #1 station video is amazing, what a shame it was damaged like that after all the years of work. PATH is still out because the World Trade Center site still has voids that provided an easy way for the Hudson river to get in, still very much a hole in the ground with new buildings under construction. Also, I suspect the MTA's two tunnel projects (2nd Ave and East Side access) inadvertendly served as entry points for much of the flooding. Excited to learn about Amtrak borrowing cars from Canada, surprised NJT fleet is 25%down from water, guess it was the Meadowlands Complex getting a rare visit from the Hackensack River?

Ok, i hope all of you have what you need and are well and healthy, and thank you for your prayers and support. Love and Godspeed,

NE933 (Robert)


----------



## Nathanael

NE933 said:


> PATH is still out because the World Trade Center site still has voids that provided an easy way for the Hudson river to get in, still very much a hole in the ground with new buildings under construction.


 PATH flooding came from the New Jersey end too; Hoboken flooded quite dramatically.


> Also, I suspect the MTA's two tunnel projects (2nd Ave and East Side access) inadvertendly served as entry points for much of the flooding.


2nd Ave Subway is confirmed to have NO flooding, though the flood waters were only about a foot short of it. East Side Access also seems to be OK; I don't know if it has *no* flooding, but no significant flooding. The #7 line extension is also fine. I haven't heard about Fulton St, but the 4/5 are running right through it so it can't be very bad. (Apparently the power is still out there, though.)


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> NY has 3 flood zone areas. Sunnyside is partly in zone 2 and part in zone 3. Only zone 1 was ever affected by the storm in terms of storm surge.


This is not quite true. The storm surge made it into zone 2. It only seems to have made it a small distance into zone 2, but there are photos of small amounts of flooding in zone 2 areas.

This is due to the exceptionally high surge, the same reason why various temporary floodwalls were overtopped, including the one around the 14th St substation which took down power in most of Lower Manhattan, and the ones protecting the North (Hudson) River Tunnels, and the East River Tunnels.

However, it looks to me (I could be wrong) as if Amtrak moved its equipment out of the zone 2 part of Sunnyside entirely, leaving equipment only in zone 3.


----------



## Nathanael

Amtrak has issued several more confusing and conflicting service alerts. It's pretty clear that nearly everything which is not running on the NYC-Albany line will be running, although there will be reduced NE Regional and Acela service. However, I was unclear as to what service will be running on the Albany-NYC line, as two alerts have contradictory information. And of course there's no published schedule.

So I tried the booking website. On Sunday, it appears:

- the LSL is still running Boston-NY only

- the Maple Leaf is running all the way in both directions

- the Adirondack is running northbound onlys (presumably the southbound starts on Monday)

- there is one additional Empire Service train each way (# 283 north / 288 south) running to Niagara Falls

- there are three additional Empire Service trains running south from NY to Albany (#254, 238, 244)

- there are three additional Empire Service trains running north from NY to Albany (#258, 261, and special #1049)

- the Ethan Allen Express is not running

The booking website suggests connecting from #1049 to the westbound LSL (ah, now I see why it's called #1049, it's shadowing the LSL schedule), and from the eastbound LSL to #244.

Clearing up another unclear point, the booking website says #51 (the Cardinal) is running out of NY on Sunday.


----------



## AlanB

NE933 said:


> If you're familiar with NYC Subways, the N was the fastest because it interchanges with only one other line, which was not working, making ffor fast handlng and turnounds at 34th st, no conflicts when trains switch from one side, cross two express tracks and reverse. The F, M, D, and Q was another story: two of these join at an interlocking at 47th/Rockefeller, just two stations away, which overwhelmed 34th's ability to serve as a terminal and cross over trains to turn them around, i quickly found out yestrday when my jam packed M train was stuck under the East river, for 45 minutes, in a place that was under water a day earlier.


First, the Q train is not running. So they were only turning 3 trains at 34th Street.

Second, the interlocking there can easily handle that with the trains running on 10 minute headways. The locals can be turned on either the downtown plat or the uptown plat. The D Express can be turned on either the uptown or downtown plat.

Any delay would have been do to a problem with a train laying down, not congestion at 34th Street. While it's not an ideal terminus, 34th can handle the volume being sent at it. That's why the trains are on 10 minute headways.



NE933 said:


> Also, I suspect the MTA's two tunnel projects (2nd Ave and East Side access) inadvertendly served as entry points for much of the flooding.


Second Avenue couldn't serve as an entry point for the flooding as it's not fully connected yet to the rest of the system to my knowledge. As for East side Access, if it served as a point, then it must have happened on the Manhattan side, as if it had been on the Queens side then Amtrak's equipment would have been damaged too as the water would have needed to flow into Sunnyside yard.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> East Side Access also seems to be OK; I don't know if it has *no* flooding, but no significant flooding. The #7 line extension is also fine. I haven't heard about Fulton St, but the 4/5 are running right through it so it can't be very bad. (Apparently the power is still out there, though.)


East Side Access shares the same tunnel as the 63rd Street subway line that the F & M are currently using. And EAS is on the lower level of the tunnel. Can't have flooding on the upper level without having it on the lower level. Of course that may well be why the F line went back into service more quickly is because the bulk of the water went downstairs and not upstairs.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> This is due to the exceptionally high surge, the same reason why various temporary floodwalls were overtopped, including the one around the 14th St substation which took down power in most of Lower Manhattan,


That substation only took out about 1/2 or less of lower Manhattan. The rest was deliberately shut down by ConEd to protect the system from the type of damage suffered at the substation that blew.



Nathanael said:


> and the ones protecting the North (Hudson) River Tunnels, and the East River Tunnels.


There were no barriers actually protecting the tunnels. The LIRR installed a barrier between 9th & 10th Ave's to stop flooding from the West End yard, which was expected, from flowing into the North River tunnels. That barrier was over-topped for about an hour or two causing the flooding in the North River tunnels.

And no barriers were installed on the East River tunnels in part because there really is no way to install a barrier there and in part because flooding was not expected to reach them. From what I've seen, the Line 4 tunnel (the normal inbound track used by the LIRR) took the brunt of the damage, as it's the one mouth that is within the Zone A or 1 area. The Line 2 tunnel shown in the video is the normal Amtrak inbound tunnel and it only suffered minor flooding. It's mouth is within the Zone B or 2 area, but just barely.



Nathanael said:


> However, it looks to me (I could be wrong) as if Amtrak moved its equipment out of the zone 2 part of Sunnyside entirely, leaving equipment only in zone 3.


That's not possible. All tracks in what's left of the original Sunnyside yard and currently used by Amtrak and NJT are at least partially within Zone 2, although all are within the highest part of Zone 2. The lowest numbered tracks are almost fully within Zone 2 while the highest numbered tracks have about 2/3rds of the track in Zone 3.

However, had water reached any part of the yard, then it would have taken out the Line 1 & Line 3 tunnels too, the normal Queens bound tunnels. Those two tunnels did not flood, ergo water could not have reached the yard at all.

Now it is possible that the LIRR took some water damage at the relatively new Arch Street shops on the other side of the #7 line, but I haven't heard anything about that either. It's also possible that the portal for the #7 line and it's walls, along with the Line 2 & Line 4 tunnels protected the Arch Street yard from any serious flooding.


----------



## AlanB

Here's the Saturday update from Amtrak:



> AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR NOVEMBER 4Modified Empire Service continues between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer this Sunday
> 
> November 3, 2012
> 
> 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak is continuing to restore Empire Service with additional trains operating between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer on a modified schedule on Sunday, November 4. Amtrak will update this statement by Sunday evening, November 4, for Empire Service trains on Monday, November 5, as well as other service beginning Monday, November 5.
> 
> Repairs by other track owners continue for the route between New York and Albany-Rensselaer. Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> To avoid the possibility of long lines at ticket offices and sold-out trains, passengers should make reservations and payment in advance through Amtrak.com, through the Amtrak app on a smartphone, or by calling 800-USA-RAIL.
> 
> Other plans - modified service, for Sunday, November 4:
> 
> The northbound Adirondack (Train 69) will operate normally New York-Monteal, Québec, Canada.
> 
> Lake Shore Limited (Trains 448 & 449) will operate normally Chicago-Boston, with connecting train service available points south of Albany-Rensselaer.
> 
> The westbound Maple Leaf (Trains 63) will operate between New York and Toronto, Ontario, Canada on a modified schedule.
> 
> The Ethan Allen Express (Trains 290 & 291) remains cancelled to and from Rutland, Vt.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some tickets booked online that have not yet been printed can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> To be notified of major service disruptions resulting in delays of 60 minutes or more to multiple trains on the Northeast Corridor, follow @AmtrakNEC on Twitter.


The full press release can be found here.


----------



## AlanB

AlanB said:


> First, the Q train is not running. So they were only turning 3 trains at 34th Street.


Ps. Even if the Q was running, the Q runs on the Broadway line, not the 6th Avenue line.


----------



## Nathanael

Incidentally, NJ Transit couldn't run the trains they'd previously announced, except on the NEC, because their dispatching center had lost power again. They're going to reintroduce some service on the other previously announced lines on Sunday morning (assuming there's no new trouble with the dispatching center). They're also planning to bring back service on the "Main" and Port Jervis Lines (terminating at Secaucus), and the Atlantic City Line. Still a huge amount out of service.

I'm very impressed by how fast Metro-North got the Hudson and New Haven lines back. That's what allowed such a fast resumption of service north of New York by Amtrak. They expect to have everything except the New Canaan branch back by Monday. LIRR expects to have service back everywhere except the Long Beach branch and the far ends of the Montauk and Ronkonkoma lines by Monday. NYC Subway is expecting to have all the East River bridges and tunnels running on Monday if power is available. The train service outages seem like they're lasting longer in New Jersey than in New York.


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> East Side Access also seems to be OK; I don't know if it has *no* flooding, but no significant flooding. The #7 line extension is also fine. I haven't heard about Fulton St, but the 4/5 are running right through it so it can't be very bad. (Apparently the power is still out there, though.)
> 
> 
> 
> East Side Access shares the same tunnel as the 63rd Street subway line that the F & M are currently using. And EAS is on the lower level of the tunnel. Can't have flooding on the upper level without having it on the lower level. Of course that may well be why the F line went back into service more quickly is because the bulk of the water went downstairs and not upstairs.
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure, but the impression I got was that the 63rd St tunnel wasn't flooded at all (and neither was the 59th St tunnel).


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is due to the exceptionally high surge, the same reason why various temporary floodwalls were overtopped, including the one around the 14th St substation which took down power in most of Lower Manhattan,
> 
> 
> 
> That substation only took out about 1/2 or less of lower Manhattan. The rest was deliberately shut down by ConEd to protect the system from the type of damage suffered at the substation that blew.
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the ones protecting the North (Hudson) River Tunnels, and the East River Tunnels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were no barriers actually protecting the tunnels. The LIRR installed a barrier between 9th & 10th Ave's to stop flooding from the West End yard, which was expected, from flowing into the North River tunnels. That barrier was over-topped for about an hour or two causing the flooding in the North River tunnels.
> 
> And no barriers were installed on the East River tunnels in part because there really is no way to install a barrier there and in part because flooding was not expected to reach them. From what I've seen, the Line 4 tunnel (the normal inbound track used by the LIRR) took the brunt of the damage, as it's the one mouth that is within the Zone A or 1 area. The Line 2 tunnel shown in the video is the normal Amtrak inbound tunnel and it only suffered minor flooding. It's mouth is within the Zone B or 2 area, but just barely.
Click to expand...

Ah. Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.



> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, it looks to me (I could be wrong) as if Amtrak moved its equipment out of the zone 2 part of Sunnyside entirely, leaving equipment only in zone 3.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not possible. All tracks in what's left of the original Sunnyside yard and currently used by Amtrak and NJT are at least partially within Zone 2, although all are within the highest part of Zone 2. The lowest numbered tracks are almost fully within Zone 2 while the highest numbered tracks have about 2/3rds of the track in Zone 3.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation.



> However, had water reached any part of the yard, then it would have taken out the Line 1 & Line 3 tunnels too, the normal Queens bound tunnels. Those two tunnels did not flood, ergo water could not have reached the yard at all.


Do we have certain information that they didn't flood? Last I heard the East River traffic was running with two tunnels, and that was after one tunnel had been announced as being unwatered -- though there could have been some confusion. Of course, three tunnels could still have flooded without any significant amount of water in the yard.



> Now it is possible that the LIRR took some water damage at the relatively new Arch Street shops on the other side of the #7 line, but I haven't heard anything about that either. It's also possible that the portal for the #7 line and it's walls, along with the Line 2 & Line 4 tunnels protected the Arch Street yard from any serious flooding.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> Incidentally, NJ Transit couldn't run the trains they'd previously announced, except on the NEC, because their dispatching center had lost power again. They're going to reintroduce some service on the other previously announced lines on Sunday morning (assuming there's no new trouble with the dispatching center). They're also planning to bring back service on the "Main" and Port Jervis Lines (terminating at Secaucus), and the Atlantic City Line. Still a huge amount out of service.


And just to be clear, even on the Main/PJ line it's not normal service, but very limited service that they're bring back. Only the AC line is going to run normal on Monday.



Nathanael said:


> I'm very impressed by how fast Metro-North got the Hudson and New Haven lines back. That's what allowed such a fast resumption of service north of New York by Amtrak. They expect to have everything except the New Canaan branch back by Monday.


Yes, MN did an amazing job considering the damage that they had. They'll be running near normal schedules, which maybe only a couple of trains cancelled.



Nathanael said:


> LIRR expects to have service back everywhere except the Long Beach branch and the far ends of the Montauk and Ronkonkoma lines by Monday.


Note, the LIRR is not restoring normal service however. All of the above is a modified service from the normal, which will almost certainly make for some very crowded trains on Monday. I still think that they've done a good job, but either their damage was worse than MN's or they didn't do as good of a job. And I don't think that their damage was worse, although I do allow that the LIRR has got more track to deal with.



Nathanael said:


> NYC Subway is expecting to have all the East River bridges and tunnels running on Monday if power is available. The train service outages seem like they're lasting longer in New Jersey than in New York.


Actually the Cranberry Street tunnels may not even be fully dry until late Monday, and then they've got to get in there and wash things down, replace that which needs replacing before they can even think about running test trains & restoring service. Unless the pumping goes faster than Ray Lhota indicated earlier today, I don't think that we'll see the A & C line operating come Monday.

We should see the Clark Street tunnels carrying the 2/3 trains go back into operation late tonight/early tomorrow morning. The Montague tunnels carrying the R should be restored at some point tomorrow or early Monday morning, but I strongly suspect that trains will be skipping the first stop in Manhattan, Whitehall Street as that ties into the badly flooded South Ferry Station on the #1.

The Rutgers Street tunnels carrying the F were supposed to already be back in service by this time, but so far there is no indication that service has been restored. And of course the bridges should be restored very soon. In fact, the J train started running across the Williamsburg Bridge to the first stop at Essex Street around 6:30 PM, only to be cut back to Brooklyn again when switches at Essex Street failed.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> However, had water reached any part of the yard, then it would have taken out the Line 1 & Line 3 tunnels too, the normal Queens bound tunnels. Those two tunnels did not flood, ergo water could not have reached the yard at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have certain information that they didn't flood? Last I heard the East River traffic was running with two tunnels, and that was after one tunnel had been announced as being unwatered -- though there could have been some confusion. Of course, three tunnels could still have flooded without any significant amount of water in the yard.
Click to expand...

Yes, Amtrak only had 2 of the 4 tunnels flood. Had there not been other problems preventing it, they would have been able to restore limited LIRR & Amtrak service with the two tunnels; Line 1 & Line 3. It wouldn't have been pretty, but it would have worked.

I know that they dewatered 1 tunnel, I'm assuming the Line 4 tunnel. I'm not sure about the Line 2 tunnel's status. It could be part of the reason for the limited schedule that the LIRR is running on Monday if they don't expect to have the Line 4 tunnel back in service.

By the way, as I write this post, I realized that I sort reversed things in my earlier post. It's the Line 2 tunnel, or normal Amtrak inbound tunnel, that sees its portal lying in the Zone 1 flood area and therefore it suffered the worst flooding. The Line 4 tunnel, normal LIRR tunnel, has its portal just inside the Zone 2 line. The other two tunnels are maybe another 30 feet, give or take, further east into the Zone 2 flood plane.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> East Side Access also seems to be OK; I don't know if it has *no* flooding, but no significant flooding. The #7 line extension is also fine. I haven't heard about Fulton St, but the 4/5 are running right through it so it can't be very bad. (Apparently the power is still out there, though.)
> 
> 
> 
> East Side Access shares the same tunnel as the 63rd Street subway line that the F & M are currently using. And EAS is on the lower level of the tunnel. Can't have flooding on the upper level without having it on the lower level. Of course that may well be why the F line went back into service more quickly is because the bulk of the water went downstairs and not upstairs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know for sure, but the impression I got was that the 63rd St tunnel wasn't flooded at all (and neither was the 59th St tunnel).
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe you are correct. I wasn't even really thinking about it when NE993 mentioned being in the tunnel that had flooded and was just working from that. But they reported that 7 subway tunnels under the East River took water. There are 9 tunnels, which would logically leave the 63rd Street tunnel and the 59th Street tunnels as the ones that remained dry. Hence part of the reason that the services using those tunnels resumed so quickly.

An interesting side note to all of this is the fact that the N trains currently running through the 59th Street tunnel are all coming out of the Jamaica Yard on the Queens Blvd line. Normally the N & Q are staged out of the Coney Island yard, but there is no way to get trains from that yard to the cutoff Broadway line. And with only the F & M running on the Queens Blvd line, the Jamaica Yard has plenty of trains to spare right now for the N.


----------



## Nathanael

A key tweet from the MTA tells us why so much of the subway is still out:

"Unforeseen problems w/electrical svc and unexpected track work at the W.4 St have slowed the timetable for subway restorations."

This is presumably why the J was terminating at Essex Street (and now cut back to Brooklyn) and why the Manhattan Bridge lines aren't back in service.

It really sounds to me as if when the electrical service problems get resolved, a whole lot of stuff should come up at once. I don't think the pumping is actually the limiting factor for the subways at the moment; the pumping seems to be running well ahead of the electrical service. Though I'd love to know what the "unexpected track work at W 4 St" is.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> A key tweet from the MTA tells us why so much of the subway is still out:
> 
> "Unforeseen problems w/electrical svc and unexpected track work at the W.4 St have slowed the timetable for subway restorations."


Yes, that would explain the failure to restore the D & F over almost there entire runs, as well as the M from Jamaica to Middle Village, which was promised for this afternoon.



Nathanael said:


> This is presumably why the J was terminating at Essex Street (and now cut back to Brooklyn) and why the Manhattan Bridge lines aren't back in service.


Nope, the J got cut back to Brooklyn due to switch problems at Essex. However, service has resumed to Essex Street again as of around 11:30 PM.



Nathanael said:


> It really sounds to me as if when the electrical service problems get resolved, a whole lot of stuff should come up at once. I don't think the pumping is actually the limiting factor for the subways at the moment; the pumping seems to be running well ahead of the electrical service. Though I'd love to know what the "unexpected track work at W 4 St" is.


Agreed, power is the big problem here right now. But again the Cranberry tunnels are lagging way behind on pumping and of course the South Ferry station on the #1 is still being pumped out. And then it'll probably need a couple months work to fix all the damage to that almost brand new station. 

I'm not sure about the status of the 53rd Street tunnel either as I've heard nothing on that. However, the fact that the M runs through the 63rd Street tunnel would seem to indicate that they have some problems to still deal with on the 53rd Street tunnel. I understand why they wouldn't run the E through there, and that's simply because it would be impossible to turn it at 34th Street.


----------



## AlanB

Just to update things a bit since this conversation:



AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> A key tweet from the MTA tells us why so much of the subway is still out:
> 
> "Unforeseen problems w/electrical svc and unexpected track work at the W.4 St have slowed the timetable for subway restorations."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that would explain the failure to restore the D & F over almost there entire runs, as well as the M from Jamaica to Middle Village, which was promised for this afternoon.
Click to expand...

The F train is now running through from Queens to Avenue X, however due to the ongoing problems at West 4th, they continue to turn the M at 34th Street.



AlanB said:


> Agreed, power is the big problem here right now. But again the Cranberry tunnels are lagging way behind on pumping and of course the South Ferry station on the #1 is still being pumped out. And then it'll probably need a couple months work to fix all the damage to that almost brand new station.
> I'm not sure about the status of the 53rd Street tunnel either as I've heard nothing on that. However, the fact that the M runs through the 63rd Street tunnel would seem to indicate that they have some problems to still deal with on the 53rd Street tunnel. I understand why they wouldn't run the E through there, and that's simply because it would be impossible to turn it at 34th Street.


Still no word on the 53rd Street tunnel's status. At a recent update MTA Chairman Lhota said that Cranbury (A & C) is dry now, but it is still not determined if it will be back in service for Monday morning. The Montague tunnel that carries the R will NOT be back in service for Monday as it was flooded from end to end and is still being pumped out. It's also not considered critical as this tunnel only serves the R line and there are alternatives to that line.

He indicated that there is also still no status on restoring the 14th Street tunnels that carry the L train. He indicated that these are two of the deepest tunnels that they have and that they took on considerable water. It's unclear if they're dry or if they're still pumping.

Also the South Ferry station is now reported dry; but it's a long ways away from supporting train service.


----------



## CHamilton

> 'Stout' Northeaster May Bring Some Flooding and High Winds
> 
> As the region continues to reel from one unwelcome weather pattern, another looms.
> 
> Even as those left without power or homes by the storm struggle to cope with temperatures that are supposed to drop into the low thirties tonight... a “pretty stout nor’easter” is heading this way midweek, said Joey Picca, a National Weather Service meteorologist.
> 
> The storm, expected to hit Wednesday night, while nothing like Hurricane Sandy, could bring moderate coastal flooding and is expected to pack an inch or two of rain, as well as sustained winds of 30 to 40 miles an hour, with gusts across parts of coastal Long Island of up to 60 miles an hour.


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> A key tweet from the MTA tells us why so much of the subway is still out:
> 
> "Unforeseen problems w/electrical svc and unexpected track work at the W.4 St have slowed the timetable for subway restorations."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that would explain the failure to restore the D & F over almost there entire runs, as well as the M from Jamaica to Middle Village, which was promised for this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is presumably why the J was terminating at Essex Street (and now cut back to Brooklyn) and why the Manhattan Bridge lines aren't back in service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, the J got cut back to Brooklyn due to switch problems at Essex. However, service has resumed to Essex Street again as of around 11:30 PM.
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> It really sounds to me as if when the electrical service problems get resolved, a whole lot of stuff should come up at once. I don't think the pumping is actually the limiting factor for the subways at the moment; the pumping seems to be running well ahead of the electrical service. Though I'd love to know what the "unexpected track work at W 4 St" is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed, power is the big problem here right now. But again the Cranberry tunnels are lagging way behind on pumping and of course the South Ferry station on the #1 is still being pumped out. And then it'll probably need a couple months work to fix all the damage to that almost brand new station.
> 
> I'm not sure about the status of the 53rd Street tunnel either as I've heard nothing on that. However, the fact that the M runs through the 63rd Street tunnel would seem to indicate that they have some problems to still deal with on the 53rd Street tunnel. I understand why they wouldn't run the E through there, and that's simply because it would be impossible to turn it at 34th Street.
Click to expand...




AlanB said:


> I'm not sure about the status of the 53rd Street tunnel either as I've heard nothing on that.


According to photos, they've been pumping it. Don't know if they finished yet.



> However, the fact that the M runs through the 63rd Street tunnel would seem to indicate that they have some problems to still deal with on the 53rd Street tunnel.


The 63rd St and 53rd St tunnels are practically redundant, apart from a couple of stops; even E service is redundant with a combination of other lines (F/D/A). I suspect that the MTA has simply been focusing its inspections and repairs on the tunnels which are *not* redundant. The time of the inspectors and switch maintainers and electrical maintainers is in high demand, no doubt. There may be nothing seriously wrong with the 53rd St. tunnel, and it would still make sense not to start using it until the inspectors and maintainers have repaired all the *non-redundant* tunnels.

This does indicate the value of redundancy. The situation with the R is similar; while they want to pump the water out quickly (because the longer the saltwater sits, the more damage is done), once they've pumped out the water they'll probably focus on less-redundant lines.

The L is really worrisome. The L is certainly not dry yet. There's hints that the G is being pumped out (people are hearing work trains running under the street). After restoring Q, and A service (and probably N to 59th St Brooklyn and

R "via bridge") I'd expect that the MTA would be focusing on getting Coney Island and its yards working again, since it will be hard to support full service without the yard space. Then we might see the G come back. The L... well, along with South Ferry station and the Rockaways branches, the L is probably going to take the longest to recover. I haven't heard how far east and west it flooded, but it could be a very long way.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> The 63rd St and 53rd St tunnels are practically redundant, apart from a couple of stops; even E service is redundant with a combination of other lines (F/D/A). I suspect that the MTA has simply been focusing its inspections and repairs on the tunnels which are *not* redundant. The time of the inspectors and switch maintainers and electrical maintainers is in high demand, no doubt. There may be nothing seriously wrong with the 53rd St. tunnel, and it would still make sense not to start using it until the inspectors and maintainers have repaired all the *non-redundant* tunnels.


I'm sorry, but I've got to totally disagree on the 53rd Street tunnel being redundant with the 63rd. Without the 53rd Street tunnel you lose 3 major stations and one cannot restore full service to the Queens Blvd line. Without full service, one will continue to see the huge lines at stops like 74th Street saw on Friday.

In fact, but for the Astoria line being out, I'd consider the 59th Street tunnel to be more redundant than the 53rd Street tunnel. The 53rd Street affects many more people than losing the 59th Street tunnel would.



Nathanael said:


> This does indicate the value of redundancy. The situation with the R is similar; while they want to pump the water out quickly (because the longer the saltwater sits, the more damage is done), once they've pumped out the water they'll probably focus on less-redundant lines.


They are pumping there, but no word on how far they've gotten.



Nathanael said:


> There's hints that the G is being pumped out (people are hearing work trains running under the street).


The G has problems at Newton Creek, the transition between Queens & Brooklyn. The G is also the least used line in the city. Ray Lhota indicated that they're not even working on that line at present and it will be the last line to return to service.


----------



## the_traveler

CHamilton said:


> 'Stout' Northeaster May Bring Some Flooding and High Winds
> 
> As the region continues to reel from one unwelcome weather pattern, another looms.
> 
> Even as those left without power or homes by the storm struggle to cope with temperatures that are supposed to drop into the low thirties tonight... a “pretty stout nor’easter” is heading this way midweek, said Joey Picca, a National Weather Service meteorologist.
> 
> The storm, expected to hit Wednesday night, while nothing like Hurricane Sandy, could bring moderate coastal flooding and is expected to pack an inch or two of rain, as well as sustained winds of 30 to 40 miles an hour, with gusts across parts of coastal Long Island of up to 60 miles an hour.
Click to expand...

Just what we need in the northeast! I think I'll move to Florida to get away from hurricanes and other storms!


----------



## jis

Yeah I am definitely moving to Florida in a year or two. 

(null)


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 63rd St and 53rd St tunnels are practically redundant, apart from a couple of stops; even E service is redundant with a combination of other lines (F/D/A). I suspect that the MTA has simply been focusing its inspections and repairs on the tunnels which are *not* redundant. The time of the inspectors and switch maintainers and electrical maintainers is in high demand, no doubt. There may be nothing seriously wrong with the 53rd St. tunnel, and it would still make sense not to start using it until the inspectors and maintainers have repaired all the *non-redundant* tunnels.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I've got to totally disagree on the 53rd Street tunnel being redundant with the 63rd. Without the 53rd Street tunnel you lose 3 major stations and one cannot restore full service to the Queens Blvd line. Without full service, one will continue to see the huge lines at stops like 74th Street saw on Friday.
> 
> In fact, but for the Astoria line being out, I'd consider the 59th Street tunnel to be more redundant than the 53rd Street tunnel. The 53rd Street affects many more people than losing the 59th Street tunnel would.
Click to expand...

True, it is more useful (due to those stations). But it is still redundant apart from the three stations; redundancy does not mean lack of utility! The 63rd St. tunnel could totally carry the full capacity of the Queens Boulevard Line express tracks; it's the same number of tracks as the 53rd St. tunnel, and it joins the 6th Avenue Line in the same location, and the Queens Boulevard Line in roughly the same location, and has the same connections to other lines (apart from the G), and stations not far away.

The lack of the 53rd St tunnel is not what is restricting the capacity which can be run on the Queens Boulevard Line. If you look at the situation carefully, the real restriction is turnaround capacity in Manhattan, which will only be alleviated when the Manhattan-Brooklyn tunnels and bridges are back up.


----------



## Nathanael

Perhaps I should clarify: the 63rd and 53rd St Tunnels are redundant *with each other*. As long as one of them is operating, they do not restrict the operation of services on either end. The 53rd St. is clearly more useful than the 63rd St.

The F and A/C tunnels from Manhattan to Brooklyn would be a redundant pair except that the full capacity of both is needed to supply the capacity on either end.

Likewise, the R tunnel and the south-side tracks on the Manhattan Bridge would be a redundant pair except that the full capacity of both is needed to supply the capacity on either end.

The 63rd St tunnel was originally intended to feed additional tracks on either end, but as finally built... it didn't. As a result it ends up basically providing redundancy to the 53rd St tunnel.


----------



## Texan Eagle

jis said:


> Yeah I am definitely moving to Florida in a year or two.
> 
> (null)


Won't you miss out on your frequent Acela rides and the non-stop flight to India from Newark? 

~

I read through past 3 or 4 pages worth of posts at once now and sitting here on the opposite coast having no real idea of the magnitude of damage that Sandy caused, it amazes me how bad it has been and how hard the various authorities are trying to get things back up and running as fast as they can. Kudos to all those unnamed possibly thousands of workers toiling physically under those several tunnels getting things sorted out.


----------



## Nathanael

And this is just the trains! The damage caused to other infrastructure is extensive too.

Anyway, Amtrak has an announcement about Monday service up now.



> November 4, 2012
> 
> 4:15 p.m. ET
> 
> Amtrak will provide Acela Express and Northeast Regional service on the Northeast Corridor between Boston-New York City-Washington, D.C. with reduced frequencies on Monday, November 5. Amtrak continues the restoration on the Empire Service operating between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer on a modified schedule.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs continue.
> 
> To avoid the possibility of long lines at ticket offices and sold-out trains, passengers should make reservations and payment in advance through Amtrak.com, through the Amtrak app on a smartphone, or by calling 800-USA-RAIL. Amtrak will update this statement, as necessary, throughout the day on Monday, November 5.
> 
> Other plans for Monday, November 5:
> 
> 
> All long distance trains will operate normally to/from New York City. Scheduling exceptions are as follow: the Lake Shore Limited (Chicago-Boston) and the Maple Leaf (New York-Toronto, Ontario, Canada) will have separate connecting train service available for points south of Albany-Rensselaer.
> 
> Keystone Service will only operate between Harrisburg, Penn., and Philadelphia, with the exception of Trains 656 and 639.
> 
> The northbound Ethan Allen Express will operate New York to Rutland, Vt.


Assuming that the Ethan Allen will resume southbound service on Tuesday, that will restore service to every station. Which is fairly impressive work. Still work to be done before normal schedules can be resumed, though.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 63rd St and 53rd St tunnels are practically redundant, apart from a couple of stops; even E service is redundant with a combination of other lines (F/D/A). I suspect that the MTA has simply been focusing its inspections and repairs on the tunnels which are *not* redundant. The time of the inspectors and switch maintainers and electrical maintainers is in high demand, no doubt. There may be nothing seriously wrong with the 53rd St. tunnel, and it would still make sense not to start using it until the inspectors and maintainers have repaired all the *non-redundant* tunnels.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I've got to totally disagree on the 53rd Street tunnel being redundant with the 63rd. Without the 53rd Street tunnel you lose 3 major stations and one cannot restore full service to the Queens Blvd line. Without full service, one will continue to see the huge lines at stops like 74th Street saw on Friday.
> 
> In fact, but for the Astoria line being out, I'd consider the 59th Street tunnel to be more redundant than the 53rd Street tunnel. The 53rd Street affects many more people than losing the 59th Street tunnel would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, it is more useful (due to those stations). But it is still redundant apart from the three stations; redundancy does not mean lack of utility! The 63rd St. tunnel could totally carry the full capacity of the Queens Boulevard Line express tracks; it's the same number of tracks as the 53rd St. tunnel, and it joins the 6th Avenue Line in the same location, and the Queens Boulevard Line in roughly the same location, and has the same connections to other lines (apart from the G), and stations not far away.
> 
> The lack of the 53rd St tunnel is not what is restricting the capacity which can be run on the Queens Boulevard Line. If you look at the situation carefully, the real restriction is turnaround capacity in Manhattan, which will only be alleviated when the Manhattan-Brooklyn tunnels and bridges are back up.
Click to expand...

Then what does one do with the local trains if we only send the express trains through the 63rd Street tunnel? There are 4 lines that operate on the Queens Blvd line. We're not getting them all through the 63rd Street tunnel. And all 4 lines are often packed during rush hour by the time they leave 74th Street/Roosevelt.

That said, I don't understand why the R isn't running through the 59th Street tunnel, unless that took some flooding too. That would at least help some.

And the Manhattan Bridge is back up, D trains are running across it, and we still haven't seen an increase in the number of trains.


----------



## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> Perhaps I should clarify: the 63rd and 53rd St Tunnels are redundant *with each other*. As long as one of them is operating, they do not restrict the operation of services on either end. The 53rd St. is clearly more useful than the 63rd St.
> 
> ..................
> 
> The 63rd St tunnel was originally intended to feed additional tracks on either end, but as finally built... it didn't. As a result it ends up basically providing redundancy to the 53rd St tunnel.


Incorrect. Without both tunnels the normal capacity of the Queens Blvd. line into Manhattan would be reduced by 1/4th. Prior to the arrival of the 63rd Street tunnel, the E & F both operated through the 53rd Street tunnel and the R went through the 59th Street tunnel. The G was the 4th train servicing the QB line and it went to Brooklyn.

Now thanks to the 63rd Street tunnel, all 4 lines on the QB tracks run into Manhattan. The F flying solo through the 63rd St and the M having replaced the F in the 53rd St tunnel.



Nathanael said:


> The F and A/C tunnels from Manhattan to Brooklyn would be a redundant pair except that the full capacity of both is needed to supply the capacity on either end.


The Rutgers Street tunnel for the F could carry the C train and still provide full capacity for both the C & the F. It cannnot however handle the A train, even assuming that one plays the needed tricks to even get the A over to the F line.


----------



## AlanB

Texan Eagle said:


> Kudos to all those unnamed possibly thousands of workers toiling physically under those several tunnels getting things sorted out.


Here, Here!


----------



## Nathanael

AlanB said:


> That said, I don't understand why the R isn't running through the 59th Street tunnel, unless that took some flooding too. That would at least help some.
> 
> And the Manhattan Bridge is back up, D trains are running across it, and we still haven't seen an increase in the number of trains.


So, we need to run 4 lines out of the Queens Boulevard line. You can run two through the 63rd st. tunnel, two through the 59th St. tunnel -- ah, right, but you need the Astoria line, so you're still one short, and the G is flooded, so you can't go that way either. Point taken. Well, the Q could be run up the Queens Boulevard line as the fourth service, so the problem still isn't the Queens-Manhattan tunnels.

The big issue is that they're not even running 3 lines off of Queens Boulevard yet. The R should be running, but it's not. And of course the Q isn't running through Manhattan either. In short, the problem is that trains aren't running through on the Broadway Line in Manhattan.

I think the lack of the R line is clearly because of limited turnaround ability on the BMT Broadway Line. Notice that the Q still isn't running to Manhattan either. Now, there must be some serious problem which we don't know about on the Broadway line, because trains really should have been running down it and across the south side of the Manhattan Bridge by now.

Now, with the Broadway Line not available as an option, would the 53rd St tunnel help? Probably not much. There's a lack of capacity to turn around on the 8th Avenue Line, so you probably can't send trains there until you can send some all the way to World Trade Center or Brooklyn. As for the 6th Avenue Line, I guess the B isn't running yet, but there's probably not much extra capacity there right now either.

If the problems with the Broadway Line continue until after the A is running from Manhattan to Brooklyn, then we may see the 53rd St. Tunnel come back up. I expect that the 53rd St. tunnel was a lower priority because the MTA assumed they could get the Broadway Line running across the Manhattan Bridge quickly... but that isn't happening for some reason.

I would really like to know why trains are not running down Broadway and not running along the south side of the Manhattan Bridge.


----------



## Nathanael

Yow. There has got to be something wrong with the signals or something on the Broadway Line in Manhattan. It looks from the service announcements as if the Q is running straight through from Brooklyn to 34th St without stopping?!?

Anyway, I'm getting deeply distracted from Amtrak topics, should probably take this to another forum...


----------



## AlanB

Correct, the Q is now running across the bridge as of 7 PM tonight and it is going to Astoria, not 34th Street.


----------



## pennyk

jis said:


> Yeah I am definitely moving to Florida in a year or two.
> 
> (null)


when you move here, please do not bring any major storms with you.


----------



## AlanB

AlanB said:


> Correct, the Q is now running across the bridge as of 7 PM tonight and it is going to Astoria, not 34th Street.


And now the N is reportedly going over the bridge too!


----------



## NE933

A major weekness of the 63rd st tunnel where it joins with the Queens blvd line is that sharp curve that forces F trains to slow the entire express operation. Except for geological ground conditions I don't know about that prevented the boring of more gradual radius, there are few good reasons the surveyors chose the hard turn required to align up to Queens blvd orientation.

It was the M, detoured over the F, that stopped after leaving Roosevelt Island. The were several "precursor" stops before along with walking speed movement.

In reading this thread i am learning and pondering over just how bad things, rail and much much more, were hit. Disasters force us to confront the many weaknesses, and strengths, of life.


----------



## AlanB

NE933 said:


> A major weekness of the 63rd st tunnel where it joins with the Queens blvd line is that sharp curve that forces F trains to slow the entire express operation. Except for geological ground conditions I don't know about that prevented the boring of more gradual radius, there are few good reasons the surveyors chose the hard turn required to align up to Queens blvd orientation.


Building basements along with the East Side Access tunnel directly underneath prevented a more gradual turn. Can't drive the subway through the basement of a building, it has to stay under the street. Not to mention the fact that there was only about 3 blocks between the end of the station at Queens-Bridge and the Queens Blvd line.

If one is riding a bike or driving car, that's plenty of room for a turn. For a 10 car subway train moving at 40 MPH, that's not nearly enough room for the radius that would needed. And again they couldn't even start the turn that early, as it would have required taking a building, maybe even several buildings.

Thankfully they didn't need a full 90 degree turn there either as Northern Blvd where the Queens Blvd line runs under at this point is at a bit of angle to 41st Avenue which the F line runs under.


----------



## AlanB

And on the heals of that, I can now report that the A train is running from 168th Street through the tunnel to Brooklyn and all the way to Lefferts Blvd. Additionally they've restored the E train between Jamaica & World Trade. The C remains suspended for now.

No word on whether the M is still running out to Jamaica or if it has returned to its normal terminus at 71st/Continental.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Alan, are you listening to the scanner even as you sleep to keep up with all this? Or have you not had any sleep in the past week?


----------



## PRR 60

AlanB said:


> ...
> 
> No word on whether the M is still running out to Jamaica or if it has returned to its normal terminus at 71st/Continental.


Running the full route.


----------



## AlanB

AmtrakBlue said:


> Alan, are you listening to the scanner even as you sleep to keep up with all this? Or have you not had any sleep in the past week?


Actually for the past few days, no. Initially I was listening to the scanner. But once they restored my local line I stopped. Just pulling this info from the MTA's website.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> No word on whether the M is still running out to Jamaica or if it has returned to its normal terminus at 71st/Continental.
> 
> 
> 
> Running the full route.
Click to expand...

Actually, No, it's not as of 5AM this morning.



> Service Change Posted: 11/05/2012 4:44AM
> As of 5:00am, Nov 5, M trains will operate between 71 Avenue Station and Metropolitan Avenue Station.


----------



## PRR 60

AlanB said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> No word on whether the M is still running out to Jamaica or if it has returned to its normal terminus at 71st/Continental.
> 
> 
> 
> Running the full route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, No, it's not as of 5AM this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Service Change Posted: 11/05/2012 4:44AM
> As of 5:00am, Nov 5, M trains will operate between 71 Avenue Station and Metropolitan Avenue Station.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Interesting. The Service Recovery Map this morning shows the entire route as in service.

Map


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> Interesting. The Service Recovery Map this morning shows the entire route as in service.
> 
> Map


Bill,

My friend, did you short out one too many power line? :lol: Or did you simply misunderstand the original question? :unsure:

That map shows the E train running to Jamaica Center and the M terminating at 71st. :unsure:


----------



## jis

Alan, yesterday on the eastbound Acela we used Track three wrong track to get into Penn Station from the east. I guess track 2 may not be up yet, or was not last night. Interestingly, in the morning we went out track 3 eastbound, not track 1. But that may have been because a relatively high platform track was used.


----------



## AlanB

jis said:


> Alan, yesterday on the eastbound Acela we used Track three wrong track to get into Penn Station from the east. I guess track 2 may not be up yet, or was not last night. Interestingly, in the morning we went out track 3 eastbound, not track 1. But that may have been because a relatively high platform track was used.


Jishnu,

Yeah, I saw your other post on that. I'm still not sure what the status of the tunnels actually is. Yesterday for a few hours, the MTA website was blaming Amtrak for their limited service because 2 tunnels were still out. Yet, I had seen something at one time from another source that said Amtrak had restored at least 1 of the 2 tunnels flooded, presumably the Line 4 tunnel which should have taken less water.

So I'm not real sure just what's happening there. I'll be on the #7 later today, so maybe I'll get lucky and see what is/isn't moving.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

With all this talk of the NYC subway system, I noticed, and bought for $6.00 at a local used bookstore, a book entitled "Uptown, Downtown A Trip Through Time on New York's Subways" By Stan Fischler, which was put out in 1976. Though dated, and I've just glanced at it so far, it looks to be a good read.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

WNBC is reporting NJT has suspended service on the North Jersey Coast Line Monday morning because too many riders are fighting for train space. Indeed it sounds like it will be quite some time before mass transit is back to normal or near normal in the Tri State.


----------



## trainman74

The Davy Crockett said:


> With all this talk of the NYC subway system, I noticed, and bought for $6.00 at a local used bookstore, a book entitled "Uptown, Downtown A Trip Through Time on New York's Subways" By Stan Fischler, which was put out in 1976. Though dated, and I've just glanced at it so far, it looks to be a good read.


An updated/revised version of that book came out in 2000 under the title The Subway: A Trip Through Time on New York's Rapid Transit.


----------



## jis

OlympianHiawatha said:


> WNBC is reporting NJT has suspended service on the North Jersey Coast Line Monday morning because too many riders are fighting for train space. Indeed it sounds like it will be quite some time before mass transit is back to normal or near normal in the Tri State.


Typical NJTransit! They always get extremely taken aback when too many people want to use their trains inspite of all their attempts to subtly discourage such behavior. 

So this time their solution was to tell everyone to drive to Metropark. Now of course they will be taken aback when too many people show up there. 

Juuust kidding

You should have seen their astonishment when they started Midtown Direct and got swamped in no time.


----------



## Nathanael

At least Amtrak doesn't act surprised when people want to ride its trains. It's true, NJ Transit really does act surprised!

There can be odd lack of common sense in terms of underestimating demand, sometimes; I attribute it to people brought up in the 1950s who still have trouble believing that people really want to ride trains. LIRR acts surprised when people want to reverse commute, or to go to the intermediate stations like East New York within the City Terminal Zone. LA Metro acted surprised when people used the Red Line and the Expo Line to get from the San Fernando Valley to Culver City. In Chicago, Metra still seems perplexed by the number of people who want to catch the train in Cook County or even Chicago. ("We're here for commuters from the collar counties!") The CTA actually thought that a reduction from four tracks to 2 would be considered acceptable on their busiest line (commuters told them no). VIA seems surprised at the vehement opposition to their destruction of service to Southwest Ontario -- and is claiming 'low ridership' without actually having any ridership numbers. (Though that case may just be deliberate fraud for political purposes.)


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Just read that Delaware is sending 20 DART busses to NJ to help out NJT.


----------



## CHamilton

> Limited PATH Service Resuming Tomorrow
> 
> Limited PATH train service will be reinstated Tuesday between Journal Square in Jersey City and 33rd Street in Manhattan, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey said.
> 
> The authority said that fares would be waived on Tuesday. Stops will not be made at Christopher and 9th Streets, and disabled passengers will only have access to platforms at Journal Square and 33rd Street.
> 
> PATH service is not being restored yet at Newark Penn Station, Hoboken, Exchange Place or the World Trade Center.


----------



## AlanB

AlanB said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alan, yesterday on the eastbound Acela we used Track three wrong track to get into Penn Station from the east. I guess track 2 may not be up yet, or was not last night. Interestingly, in the morning we went out track 3 eastbound, not track 1. But that may have been because a relatively high platform track was used.
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm not real sure just what's happening there. I'll be on the #7 later today, so maybe I'll get lucky and see what is/isn't moving.
Click to expand...

So I went by today to look things over. The Line 2 tunnel, normal Amtrak inbound, appears to still be out of service. If they're pumping it, then they're pumping from a point further west and closer to the East River. And the rails are shiny indicating that something has run down that tunnel.

However, during the short time that I was in the area, I did watch 1 LIRR train enter the Line 4 tunnel (normal LIRR inbound) and I saw one Amtrak train from Boston enter the Line 4 tunnel. Additionally, as I walked along the track/yard area on the local street, I could see that they were sending trains out of the yard using the rarely used lead from the yard to the Line 4 tunnel.

Normally they stack trains up on two yard leads that go to the Line 2 tunnel. So the lack of trains there and the one train waiting on the lead to the Line 4 tunnel leads me to believe that Line 2 is still down and they're running on 3 tunnels.

Hopefully this means that the LIRR will restore some more trains starting tomorrow with 3 tunnels in use.


----------



## AlanB

And during my travels today, I took this shot of a very unusual situation; a virtually empty Sunnyside yard.







Normally at 3:30 PM on a weekday just about every track would have 1 or more trains sitting on it. Heck, even on a weekend there is usually more trains in this yard. 

To have zero NJT trains in Sunnyside is unheard of normally.


----------



## PRR 60

A posting at Trainorders states that East River Lines 1 and 2 are still flooded, as is the westbound (upriver) tube of the North (Hudson) River tunnels. The absence of Lines 1 and 2 is forcing Amtrak to use NYP high-side tracks (17-21) in order to access Sunnyside through 3 and 4, leaving the low side for NJT and any Amtrak service that can turn in the station (Keystones). Empire Service trains, which can only use low-side tracks at NYP, cannot access Sunnyside (which explains the shuttle service between NYP and ALB for the Lake Shore).

Amtrak expects to reopen East River Line 2 next, followed by the second North River tunnel. The signal system in the East River tunnels was badly damaged. They are running absolute block through the tunnels which cuts capacity by 50%.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> A posting at Trainorders states that East River Lines 1 and 2 are still flooded, as is the westbound (upriver) tube of the North (Hudson) River tunnels. The absence of Lines 1 and 2 is forcing Amtrak to use NYP high-side tracks (17-21) in order to access Sunnyside through 3 and 4, leaving the low side for NJT and any Amtrak service that can turn in the station (Keystones). Empire Service trains, which can only use low-side tracks at NYP, cannot access Sunnyside (which explains the shuttle service between NYP and ALB for the Lake Shore).
> 
> Amtrak expects to reopen East River Line 2 next, followed by the second North River tunnel. The signal system in the East River tunnels was badly damaged. They are running absolute block through the tunnels which cuts capacity by 50%.


Bill,

I appreciate the fact that you are simply relaying info found elsewhere.

However, that doesn't make sense IMHO. The water that flooded the Line 2 tunnel clearly came from the Queens side of the river, as shown by the MTA's video. The Line 1 portal however is no where near the Line 2 portal. And before the water could start pouring into the Line 1 tunnel, it would first have to start flowing into the Line 4 tunnel, as that portal is closer to the river and the the Line 2 portal. Additionally, if the Line 1 portal were to start flooding, then the Line 3 portal would also be taking on water, as those two portals are side by side.

Here's the bird's eye view of the Line 2 portal. This is the normal inbound Amtrak tunnel and the portal closest to the river and within the Zone 1 flood area. If you now roll the picture slowly to the left and angling slightly down, such that the image is traveling to the right, as you reach the end of the canopy for the LIRR Hunterspoint Station, you'll find the Line 4 portal. This is the normal LIRR inbound tunnel, and it lies just barely within the Zone 2 flood area. At this point the Line 1 & Line 3 tunnels are still underground.

If one continues moving a bit further, you'll find the portals to the Line 1 & Line 3 tunnels, which again are side by side with the Line 1 portal closer to the bottom of the picture. Line 1 would be the normal outbound Amtrak tunnel, while Line 3 is the LIRR's and both lie within the Zone 2 flood plain, and again they're further in to the Zone 2 flood plain and farther from where the tidal surge was approaching from than the Line 4 tunnel.

So that post simply doesn't make any sense to me.

However, as of today it is clearly all academic, as again, I watched trains entering the Line 4 tunnel, including Amtrak trains from Boston & the yard, and I saw LIRR trains coming out of Line 3 and an Acela come out of Line 1 heading for the yard. The only tunnel that appeared to me to be still out of use, due to no trains entering/exiting and the service pattern for Amtrak, is the Line 2 tunnel.


----------



## AlanB

The Monday update from Amtrak:



> AMTRAK NORTHEAST CORRIDOR SERVICE RESTORATION PLAN FOR TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 6 AND WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 7
> Monday, November 5, 2012
> 
> 4:00 ET
> 
> On Tuesday, Nov. 6 and Wednesday, Nov. 7, Amtrak will continue to provide modified Acela Express and Northeast Regional service on the Northeast Corridor between Boston - New York City - Washington, D.C. as well as on the Empire Service operating between New York City and Albany-Rensselaer.
> 
> Amtrak services to and from New York City are subject to delay while repairs from Hurricane Sandy continue. To avoid the possibility of long lines at ticket offices and sold-out trains, passengers should make reservations and payment in advance through Amtrak.com, through the Amtrak app on a smartphone or by calling 800-USA-RAIL.
> 
> This Service Alert should be considered in effect through Wednesday, Nov. 7, though updates will be posted as necessary.
> 
> Other operating plans for Nov. 6 and Nov. 7:
> 
> All long distance trains will operate normally to/from New York City. Scheduling exceptions are as follow: the Lake Shore Limited (Chicago-Boston) and the Maple Leaf (New York - Toronto, Canada) will have separate connecting train service available for points south of Albany-Rensselaer. Keystone Service will only operate between Harrisburg, Penn. and Philadelphia, with the exception of Trains 656 and 639. The Ethan Allen Express will operate normally between New York City and Rutland, Vt., however, the northbound train may depart 30 minutes late.
> 
> Passengers who have paid but choose not to travel due to this service disruption can receive a refund or a voucher for future travel. Some reservations booked online can be modified or canceled on Amtrak.com or by using the free Amtrak mobile app.
> 
> Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com/alerts for Service Alerts and Passenger Notices. Schedule information and train status updates are available at the Amtrak.com home page.


The full press release can be found here.


----------



## greatcats

For what this might be worth, my friend and I travelled from Washington to Boston today on Train 86, leaving DC at 8:40 am. It was a totally uneventful journey from a passenger standpoint and we arrived Boston six minutes early!


----------



## AlanB

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> 
> WNBC is reporting NJT has suspended service on the North Jersey Coast Line Monday morning because too many riders are fighting for train space. Indeed it sounds like it will be quite some time before mass transit is back to normal or near normal in the Tri State.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical NJTransit! They always get extremely taken aback when too many people want to use their trains inspite of all their attempts to subtly discourage such behavior.
Click to expand...

One report that I just found suggests that the very first train to leave Woodbridge was a 12 car train carrying 1,200 passengers or about 100 pax per car. Of course the unknown factor in this is whether or not it was a single level or multi-level train

Of course the NYC subway is well known for packing far more than 100 into a subway car.


----------



## CHamilton

> New Jersey Transit’s Damaged Rail Cars Won’t Be Easy to Replace
> 
> Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- On top of having to fix damaged tracks and an operations center ruined by floodwaters, New Jersey Transit’s biggest obstacle to restoring full service for 276,000 daily rail commuters may be finding cars and engines.
> 
> The Newark-based agency had 257 rail cars and 65 engines -- 23 percent and 35 percent of its totals, respectively -- damaged or ruined by Atlantic superstorm Sandy, Nancy Snyder, a spokeswoman, said. The agency hasn’t determined how many, if any, can be repaired, she said.
> 
> New equipment won’t be a quick solution, as about 330 unionized production workers went on strike Nov. 1 at the Bombardier Inc. factory in La Pocatiere, Quebec, that builds the shells for the agency’s cars.


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## PRR 60

As of Tuesday morning, the status at NYP remains unchanged. Of the four East River tunnels, the two northernmost (Lines 3 and 4) are in service. The two southernmost (Lines 1 and 2) remain out of service.

The continued outage of Lines 1 and 2 limit capacity, and the interlocking located at the east end of NYP only has connections from station tracks 14 and higher to Lines 3 and 4. Since all Amtrak trains except the Keystones are single-ended and need access to and from the east for either through service or access to Sunnyside Yard, Amtrak can only use station tracks 14, 15 and 16 for most service. This limitation eliminates direct access to Sunnyside Yard by Empire Service trains coming off the West Side line. The West Side line enters the Penn Station track complex at a point where access to Lines 3 and 4 to the east cannot be reached without a reversing move. That is why the Lake Shore Limited is running a stub train from Albany to NYP. The regular Lake Shore consist is too long for the reversing move at NYP.

Amtrak "hopes" to get the Line 2 tunnel open today. When that happens (today or whenever), the current limitation of usable tracks to the east will be eliminated, although signal damage will limit capacity.

Of the two North (Hudson) River tunnels, only the southernmost is open. The Northernmost tunnel remains out of service. This greatly reduces the capacity under the Hudson to what is effectively weekend service. The second North River Tunnel is expected to reopen sometime after the Line 2 East River tunnel is open.

NYP is open, but it is a mess.


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## jis

Wait! If Line 1 is out of service as PRR60 claims, how did AlanB see an Acela come out of the Line 1 tunnel.

PRR are you just repeating what abyler wrote on trainorders? Or do you have another independant source? I might add that in my experience abyler is not necessarily the most reliable source.


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> Wait! If Line 1 is out of service as PRR60 claims, how did AlanB see an Acela come out of the Line 1 tunnel.
> 
> PRR are you just repeating what abyler wrote on trainorders? Or do you have another independant source? I might add that in my experience abyler is not necessarily the most reliable source.


No, I am not relying solely on the TO posting. I have no explanation for the Acela observed coming out of the Line1 tunnel, but if Line 1 was open, why would Amtrak still be sending the Lake Shore consist to Boston? With Line 1 open, the Lake Shore could operate normally through NYP and on to Sunnyside.

I'll stand by my info as being accurate, and that is why I posted it. However, am not going to argue with anyone who feels they have better information. It really does not matter that much in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## jis

So yours is then a surmise based on a TO posting and a few observed facts. Fair enough. However reading your message I got the impression that you were actually basing it on more than that. So I was just asking for clarification. Thanks for prviding it.

I am still curious though about how water got into tunnel 1. It could not have got through the Queens portal. One possibility of course is that water flowing through tunnel 2 entered tunnel 1 through the New York end since tunnels 1 and 2 open up in the same cavern at the New York end.


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## PRR 60

From Newsday, Tuesday 11/6/12:



> The LIRR was running about 40 to 45 percent of the trains it would normally run, because it has access to only two of the four East River tunnels for rail traffic into Penn Station, (LIRR spokesman Salvatore) Arena said Tuesday morning. The other two were flooded during last week's storm.


According to this report, there were only two of four tunnels open this morning.

Newsday


----------



## AlanB

jis said:


> So yours is then a surmise based on a TO posting and a few observed facts. Fair enough. However reading your message I got the impression that you were actually basing it on more than that. So I was just asking for clarification. Thanks for prviding it.


Jishnu, I think that Bill is working on a bit more than a surmise. But I can't explain the obvious disconnect between what I saw and what he's getting.



jis said:


> I am still curious though about how water got into tunnel 1. It could not have got through the Queens portal. One possibility of course is that water flowing through tunnel 2 entered tunnel 1 through the New York end since tunnels 1 and 2 open up in the same cavern at the New York end.


I too agree, I don't understand this It really doesn't make sense at all. And in fact, I'd think that if what you're suggesting had happened, then I think that the flooding would have taken out more of Penn in the process.

Maybe there is some connecting emergency passage between the Line 1 & Line 2 tunnels that allowed the water to flow from one to the other?


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> So yours is then a surmise based on a TO posting and a few observed facts. Fair enough. However reading your message I got the impression that you were actually basing it on more than that. So I was just asking for clarification. Thanks for prviding it.
> 
> I am still curious though about how water got into tunnel 1. It could not have got through the Queens portal. One possibility of course is that water flowing through tunnel 2 entered tunnel 1 through the New York end since tunnels 1 and 2 open up in the same cavern at the New York end.


That is not exactly what I said. I said that I was not solely relying on the TO post, and I am not. However, it is more than the TO post and a few observed facts. I only used the irregular operation as a point of argument since running the LSL consist to Boston would not be necessary if three tunnels were open. Add that to the Newsday article above that quotes the LIRR as stating there are only two tunnels open (as of this morning), and I feel pretty confident in my post. Since there is general agreement that 3 and 4 are open, that leaves 1 and 2 as closed. That would match the information I have.

As for water ingress points to the tunnels, I don't think the portals are the only possible entrances. There at least used to be vertical shafts located on each side of the East River that were originally used for construction access. They may now be emergency exit shafts and ventilation shafts. If so, those could have taken in the water. Penn Station is the high point of the profile, so it is even possible that water coming from the LIRR yard flowed through Penn and down into the tunnels. Otherwise, I don't have a clue. The fact (as I believe it) is that the tunnels were flooded, so the water got in there somehow.


----------



## jis

PRR 60 said:


> From Newsday, Tuesday 11/6/12:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The LIRR was running about 40 to 45 percent of the trains it would normally run, because it has access to only two of the four East River tunnels for rail traffic into Penn Station, (LIRR spokesman Salvatore) Arena said Tuesday morning. The other two were flooded during last week's storm.
> 
> 
> 
> According to this report, there were only two of four tunnels open this morning.
> 
> Newsday
Click to expand...

Good additional data point. The mystery compounds though. So if 4 was not flooded that means water did not rise that far. So my conjecture of 1 flooding from the New York end due to inflow through 2 all the way to the New York end seems to be come a more credible conjecture, since I don't believe 1 could have flooded from the Queens end since 3 did not, as 1 and 3 enter through the same cut at the Queens end.

The other possibillity is water getting in through fire escape shafts.


----------



## jis

AlanB said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am still curious though about how water got into tunnel 1. It could not have got through the Queens portal. One possibility of course is that water flowing through tunnel 2 entered tunnel 1 through the New York end since tunnels 1 and 2 open up in the same cavern at the New York end.
> 
> 
> 
> I too agree, I don't understand this It really doesn't make sense at all. And in fact, I'd think that if what you're suggesting had happened, then I think that the flooding would have taken out more of Penn in the process.
Click to expand...

Actually, not necessarily, because where 1 and 2 open up into the common three track wide tunnel, it is at a considerably lower level than the base level of the tracks in Penn Station. So conceivabley water could have flowed in through 2 and out rhough 1, and this would continue that way until 1 also filled up and the net water level rose further to then inundate other parts of Penn Station.



> Maybe there is some connecting emergency passage between the Line 1 & Line 2 tunnels that allowed the water to flow from one to the other?


None that I am aware of.

But the other possibility of some wwater getting in through one of the escape shafts still remains.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> From Newsday, Tuesday 11/6/12:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The LIRR was running about 40 to 45 percent of the trains it would normally run, because it has access to only two of the four East River tunnels for rail traffic into Penn Station, (LIRR spokesman Salvatore) Arena said Tuesday morning. The other two were flooded during last week's storm.
> 
> 
> 
> According to this report, there were only two of four tunnels open this morning.
> 
> Newsday
Click to expand...

A minor nit, but it actually says that they only had access to two tunnels. With the way that's worded, one could interpret that Amtrak isn't permitting them access to a third open tunnel if indeed a third is open.

As I said above, I don't understand the disconnect with the conflicting information. Too many things simply don't make sense here and I'm not really sure what's going on. Not trying to argue, but too many things just don't add up. Like how the water got into the Line 1 tunnel, if indeed it did. And I definitely don't understand how the Acela I saw could be where it was, unless the tunnel was open. Maybe it had just reopened at that point in time? Maybe they ran it through without signals and haven't fully reopened that tunnel? I don't know.

One thing i can talk about however is the Lake Shore. If only the Line 1 tunnel were open and the Line 2 is out, then the Lake Shore would arrive into NYP essentially backwards. The only way to get to the Line 1 tunnel from Sunnyside yard is to run around the loop track.

Now normally the LSL would depart NYP via the Line 1 tunnel and then go around the loop at SNY, arriving into the yard now facing the correct direction for the next day. The next day it would leave the yard and head to NYP via the Line 2 tunnel to reach the correct tracks for Empire Service. If Line 2 is out, then the only way to reach the correct tracks at NYP would be Line 1, and that would require them to run back around the loop, and leave the consist backwards. I suppose if someone wanted to actually make SNY work, they could disassemble the consist car by car, flat switch everything into the correct order and reassemble the consist. But that's a lot of work. This problem would not plague the Silvers & Crescent, as they can go through the Line 4 tunnel and still make the North River tunnels.


----------



## AlanB

PRR 60 said:


> I only used the irregular operation as a point of argument since running the LSL consist to Boston would not be necessary if three tunnels were open.


We were posting at the same time, but as I explained, with the Line 2 tunnel down it would still not be easy to run the LSL using the Line 1 tunnel. The consist would be backwards if one tried that.

Yet this problem would not plague the other LD's.


----------



## Phil S

So why all the NEC cancellations today? Seems like yesterday there were only the LSL's. Election day?


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## jis

One of the Hudson tubes is out. Which basically reduces capacity to weekend levels coming in from/going out to the south/west.


----------



## afigg

jis said:


> One of the Hudson tubes is out. Which basically reduces capacity to weekend levels coming in from/going out to the south/west.


Which provides Amtrak (and NJT) the opportunity to talk to the press and the politicians the need to build the two new tunnels under the Hudson River. The considerable economic impact of the disruption of the NEC, the NYC subway, NJT, LIRR, MNRR should make the case to the public, the business community, the media, and the politicians that the rail systems are vital to the economic health of the NEC mega-region and it is time to pay up.


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## NE933

During a post hurricane information on tv slot today, NJ Gov. Chris Christie stated that the East River Amtrak tunnels that have been drained are still with only a fraction of the power, meaning at half their capacity and slower speeds. Also, it's possible for electricity to "leak", especially when salt water has eroded the rubber conduit, mix that with thousands of miles worth wire and cable makes for a nightmare for the electricians to find.


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## PRR 60

We are exactly two weeks from Amtrak and the NEC's busiest day of the year. I wonder if the damage in and around New York will have an impact on Amtrak ability to run the proposed holiday schedule?


----------



## jis

afigg said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the Hudson tubes is out. Which basically reduces capacity to weekend levels coming in from/going out to the south/west.
> 
> 
> 
> Which provides Amtrak (and NJT) the opportunity to talk to the press and the politicians the need to build the two new tunnels under the Hudson River. The considerable economic impact of the disruption of the NEC, the NYC subway, NJT, LIRR, MNRR should make the case to the public, the business community, the media, and the politicians that the rail systems are vital to the economic health of the NEC mega-region and it is time to pay up.
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any politician in NJ or downstate NY who does not know the issue or is opposed to building new tunnels. The question is of finding the money and figuring out who should pay what proportion. As usual that is where political posturing and party sacred cows come into play. BTW, NJT is the Governor of NJ. He appoints every bit of NJT's management hierarchy, so NJT will never say anything that the Governor does not say or approve, unless he makes a horrible "mistake" in his appointments. This one has made no such mistake, and neither did the last one. He has the appropriate lampposts and potted plants at the appropriate places. The relevant question usually is with how little damage can we survive each Gubernatorial term.

Even when they try to do ostensibly positive things like build the ARC tunnels they get things horribly wrong due to the politics and egos involved. For example one of Mr. Warrington's missions apparently became figuring out how to wrest as much control of the NEC as possible from Amtrak, never mind that NJ State did not have the wherewithall to actually run the infrastructure to support all the traffic that runs on it. And the then Governor was too preoccupied by other things to get his pooch to heel. What followed was the ARC fiasco in which Amtrak was completely cut out and thrown the bone of 3 additional trains per hour into Penn Station, and NJT got saddled with extermely expensive dual-mode locomotives which they don;t know what to do with now.

The bottom line problem in NJ is that there is gross imbalance between capital funding and operating funds. Usually operating funds do not provide enough money to actually operate the equipment obtained using capital funds effectively. And Governor after Governor has either chosen to ignore the problem or kicked the can down the road, including this one. Even 15 tunnels between NJ and NY won't solve that problem and without solving that there will be nothing to run through those tunnels other than a few Amtrak trains and the current NJT traffic if they can maintain it. Afterall most of the traffic through those tunnels always will be NJT, with Amtrak providing something like maybe 4 to 10 tph in each direction for the next decade or two, notwithstanding all the grand plans.


----------



## AlanB

jis said:


> NJT got saddled with extermely expensive dual-mode locomotives which they don;t know what to do with now.


Maybe they can sell them to Amtrak in a few years as the replacements for the aging P32 AC-DM's.



jis said:


> The bottom line problem in NJ is that there is gross imbalance between capital funding and operating funds. Usually operating funds do not provide enough money to actually operate the equipment obtained using capital funds effectively. And Governor after Governor has either chosen to ignore the problem or kicked the can down the road, including this one.


This has always been a problem and I suspect that it will continue forever to be a problem; and not just for NJ, but also NY. And part of the problem is the fact that a politician can point to a pretty new bridge, a new tunnel, or a new train and say "See what I did for you!" They can't do that with operating expenses. And therein lies a big part of the problem IMHO.


----------



## jis

Here is an interesting letter from Kevin O'Connor VP and GM Rail Operations at NJTRO:

http://xa.yimg.com/k...4/name/Hurrican

Since it does have some Amtrak related info, I thought appropriate to bring it up in this thread.

Apparently even if the second Hudson Tube was put back in service, the number of trains will not go up drastically due to traction power shortage since the feeding substation by Swift interlocking is knocked out due to flooding and will take quite a while to repair.

BTW, this also pretty much corroborates what PRR had posted earlier regarding tunnels.


----------



## afigg

jis said:


> I am not aware of any politician in NJ or downstate NY who does not know the issue or is opposed to building new tunnels. The question is of finding the money and figuring out who should pay what proportion. As usual that is where political posturing and party sacred cows come into play. BTW, NJT is the Governor of NJ. He appoints every bit of NJT's management hierarchy, so NJT will never say anything that the Governor does not say or approve, unless he makes a horrible "mistake" in his appointments. This one has made no such mistake, and neither did the last one. He has the appropriate lampposts and potted plants at the appropriate places. The relevant question usually is with how little damage can we survive each Gubernatorial term.


I understand that the politicians in NY and NJ are pretty much in support of the core components of the Gateway project (2 new Hudson tunnels, Portal bridge replacements), but that the disaster should get the multiple transportation agencies, NYC, the representatives from the NEC states off the dime and get going on putting together a funding package.

First, the region has to clean up from the storm and get the transit systems back into full operation. NJT may undergo some management shakeups. In Washington, the fiscal cliff, tax issues, FY2013 budget will have to be fought over in the coming lame duck session of Congress and in the early days of the next Congress. Once that is done (and a deal will be reached after much hue and cry), the next transportation authorization bill will have to be written. MAP21 expires on September 30, 2014 after all. That would be the time to get all the Governors, Senators and Congresspersons from the NEC states to back a NEC modernization program which along with state & Port Authority contributions, would fund critical NEC projects. Maybe even provide funding to pay for part of an Amfleet I replacement program. Disasters such as the storm can overcome the political inertia that often stalls infrastructure projects.


----------



## jis

afigg said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not aware of any politician in NJ or downstate NY who does not know the issue or is opposed to building new tunnels. The question is of finding the money and figuring out who should pay what proportion. As usual that is where political posturing and party sacred cows come into play. BTW, NJT is the Governor of NJ. He appoints every bit of NJT's management hierarchy, so NJT will never say anything that the Governor does not say or approve, unless he makes a horrible "mistake" in his appointments. This one has made no such mistake, and neither did the last one. He has the appropriate lampposts and potted plants at the appropriate places. The relevant question usually is with how little damage can we survive each Gubernatorial term.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that the politicians in NY and NJ are pretty much in support of the core components of the Gateway project (2 new Hudson tunnels, Portal bridge replacements), but that the disaster should get the multiple transportation agencies, NYC, the representatives from the NEC states off the dime and get going on putting together a funding package.
> 
> First, the region has to clean up from the storm and get the transit systems back into full operation. NJT may undergo some management shakeups. In Washington, the fiscal cliff, tax issues, FY2013 budget will have to be fought over in the coming lame duck session of Congress and in the early days of the next Congress. Once that is done (and a deal will be reached after much hue and cry), the next transportation authorization bill will have to be written. MAP21 expires on September 30, 2014 after all. That would be the time to get all the Governors, Senators and Congresspersons from the NEC states to back a NEC modernization program which along with state & Port Authority contributions, would fund critical NEC projects. Maybe even provide funding to pay for part of an Amfleet I replacement program. Disasters such as the storm can overcome the political inertia that often stalls infrastructure projects.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible, But the result of disaster recovery funding has been mixed. Witness the WTC recovery and Fulton Street Transportation Complex. Both are financial disasters in their own right. Hopefully whatever comes out of this will be managed a little better than those.

I would be astounded if someone can turn this into an Amfleet I replacement program though, since there are so many other things that need fixing way more urgently in the area than Amfleet Is, which are really good enough for another 10 years.


----------



## B&Ofan

As for the LSL, I have verified (at least on Saturday) that they are not running the full train to Boston, just the Boston section. I had hoped to see a big long distnace train leaving the area, but alas.


----------



## Henry Kisor

From Amtrak Media Relations today:

AMTRAK TO RE-OPEN THREE TUNNELS TO PENN STATION NEW YORK BY LATE FRIDAY, NOV. 9

Expanded train service north, south and west of NYC to follow

WASHINGTON - By late Friday, Nov. 9, Amtrak intends to re-open three tunnels that provide access to/from Penn Station New York (PSNY) which were significantly flooded and damaged by Hurricane Sandy. All Amtrak PSNY tunnels will then be in operation and will allow expanded Amtrak and commuter rail service north, south and west of New York City. Individual tunnels are expected to open at various times during the next three days.

"The return of all tunnel access to New York City will be a major milestone in the continued restoration of Amtrak and commuter rail service and for the larger recovery efforts of the Northeast region," said President and CEO Joe Boardman.

Two of the tunnels (known as Line 1 and Line 2) that will re-open this week are located under the East River and will support more Northeast Corridor service north of New York and Empire Service and other trains that operate to/from Albany and further west. When the two tunnels open, each will operate at 80 percent capacity, or at a peak level of about 32 trains per hour, as repairs continue. Two other East River tunnels did not flood and are operating at 100 percent capacity, or at a peak level of about 40 trains per hour.

The other tunnel (known as the North Tube) to re-open is located under the Hudson River and will allow expanded Amtrak and New Jersey Transit commuter rail service south of New York. In combination with the South Tube, which re-opened on Oct. 31, the two Hudson River tunnels will operate at about 63 percent capacity, or a peak of about 24 trains per hour which doubles the capacity of a peak of 12 per hour today. A normal peak is about 38 trains per hour.

The ability to further increase capacity through the Hudson River tunnels is currently limited by significant flooding damage at a key electrical substation located near Kearney, N.J. On Nov. 6, with the assistance of the Army Corps of Engineers, Amtrak brought the flooding under control and de-watered the facility. The equipment is now being cleaned and will be tested to determine the damage, the next course of action and estimated time for repair. Amtrak is able to bypass this substation, but because the power used for this section of track now has to supply a longer distance, the number of trains allowed to take power in the longer supply section is to be restricted in order to protect the catenary wires from over heating or tripping the supply breakers on overload until the substation is back on line for full restoration of service.

In addition, the 1930s-era electrical system was built by the Pennsylvania Railroad and inherited by Amtrak when it took control of sections of the Northeast Corridor in 1976. It uses unusual 25 Hz current; most modern electrical components are designed for 60 Hz current, thus limiting the ability to easily substitute electrical components or bring in alternate power sources.

The Hurricane Sandy storm surge flooded four of six 102-year-old tunnels under the Hudson and East Rivers for the first time in their history. In particular, signal and electrical systems in three of the four flooded tunnels were severely damaged by the salt water. Amtrak crews have designed a bypass for the signal system to allow the tunnels to re-open and provide safe operations, but more repairs are needed.

While Amtrak's Northeast Corridor received unprecedented levels of storm damage from Hurricane Sandy, investments made since 2002 helped mitigate the damage and are assisting in the recovery. For example, fire and life safety improvements in the New York tunnels including better emergency ingress/egress points and an enhanced ventilation system have supported the inspection process, de-watering / drying efforts and repair activities.


----------



## Nathanael

Reading the press release reminds me: Amtrak had a plan, long ago, to convert to 60 Hz overhead power, which has for some reason been indefinitely delayed. I would suggest that ASAP is a good time to do it.


----------



## PRR 60

Nathanael said:


> Reading the press release reminds me: Amtrak had a plan, long ago, to convert to 60 Hz overhead power, which has for some reason been indefinitely delayed. I would suggest that ASAP is a good time to do it.


It has not been delayed. it was dropped. The conversion costs, both for Amtrak and the supply utilities (whose costs would be borne by Amtrak), were too high with too little benefit. Amtrak is committed to 25Hz for the south-end NEC and has backed that commitment with multiple new and expanded frequency conversion facilities. With the exception of the flooded substation, the existing system got through the storm very well - arguably much better than the commercial utilities.

The existing system gives Amtrak a significant advantage. Amtrak has the capability to transmit power from remote sources through dedicated high-voltage transmission lines up and down the NEC. Philadelphia power can run trains into New York. New Jersey power can run trains in Maryland. That long-distance transmission capability allowed Amtrak to operate through areas where commercial power was out.

Amtrak's existing 25Hz, single phase high voltage transmission system is physically incompatible with 60Hz, three-phase power and would be useless following conversion. Amtrak could not move power long distances. They would be dependent on supply from multiple commercial sources along the NEC, each with a limited reach. That would make Amtrak more susceptible to area utility outages. With most of North Jersey blacked out following Sandy, there is no doubt in my mind that Amtrak would not have been up and running as quickly if they had been dependent on multiple, 60Hz, three-phase power sources. The decision to stay with the 25Hz, single phase system likely saved the NEC from multiple days out-of-service.


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## jis

The utilities have proved to be so phenomenally ill equipped and incompetent that even if Amtrak went to 60Hz, they would be well advised to keep their own distribution network IMHO.


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## Nathanael

PRR 60 said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reading the press release reminds me: Amtrak had a plan, long ago, to convert to 60 Hz overhead power, which has for some reason been indefinitely delayed. I would suggest that ASAP is a good time to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> It has not been delayed. it was dropped. The conversion costs, both for Amtrak and the supply utilities (whose costs would be borne by Amtrak), were too high with too little benefit. Amtrak is committed to 25Hz for the south-end NEC and has backed that commitment with multiple new and expanded frequency conversion facilities.
Click to expand...

Horrendously poor choice. There is no excuse for this waste of taxpayer money.



> With the exception of the flooded substation, the existing system got through the storm very well - arguably much better than the commercial utilities.


Whatever.	The flooded substation, which won't be fixed for *weeks*, and will probably require custom-manufactured parts, makes up for all that and more.



> The existing system gives Amtrak a significant advantage. Amtrak has the capability to transmit power from remote sources through dedicated high-voltage transmission lines up and down the NEC.


You can do that with standard frequencies. Heck, if you really want to you can even use rotary converters without changing frequency (for power "cleaning", if you like).



> Philadelphia power can run trains into New York. New Jersey power can run trains in Maryland. That long-distance transmission capability allowed Amtrak to operate through areas where commercial power was out.


Which worked in the 60 Hz zone too.



> Amtrak's existing 25Hz, single phase high voltage transmission system is physically incompatible with 60Hz, three-phase power


Really? So distribute 60 Hz, single phase power, for which the parts are readily available. I believe the wires could absolutely be reused. Most of them are due for replacement in any case...



> The decision to stay with the 25Hz, single phase system likely saved the NEC from multiple days out-of-service.


No, it didn't. The decision to retain Amtrak's own distribution system did. That's not the same thing at all; Amtrak should certainly retain their own distribution system, but it shouldn't be a *completely nonstandard* system for which parts are not mass-produced.


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## AlanB

Nathanael said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The existing system gives Amtrak a significant advantage. Amtrak has the capability to transmit power from remote sources through dedicated high-voltage transmission lines up and down the NEC.
> 
> 
> 
> You can do that with standard frequencies. Heck, if you really want to you can even use rotary converters without changing frequency (for power "cleaning", if you like).
Click to expand...

Nathanael,

Just as an FYI, and not in an attempt to silence your opinion, but you should know that Bill (PRR60) just retired about 2 years ago from PECO. PECO is the power authority for the Philly area and also the major supplier for Amtrak's power for the southern NEC. As an engineer, Bill's area of responsibility was the supply of the high voltage power to the region, including supplying Amtrak. I know Bill very well having met him many times and I've had many discussions on all things Amtrak & power, and even a few airline discussions too, and I know just enough to know that Bill knows his stuff when it comes to electric power.

You are arguing with probably the best expert around who doesn't actually work for Amtrak, and someone who has no stake anymore in any fashion, on how the NEC is powered. So the idea of anyone trying to explain to Bill anything about rotary frequency converters is, I'm sorry to say, almost laughable. Bill has personally seen at least some of the converters that help to power the NEC.


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## jis

It should be noted that if Amtrak wanted to simply continue to use its distribution network as is in situ, even after covnerting to 60Hz, basically they would have to replace the 60Hz to 25 Hz conversion stations to 60Hz to 60Hz conversion stations, which would be somewhat pointless thing to do.

Converting to 60Hz using commercial supply will require complete redoing of the distribution network taking care of phase balancing etc., whcih will be a hugely expensive undertaking. Even if it is to be contemplated it can only possibly be done on a segment by segment basis over many years, and that may not be the best allocation of limited funds at this time.

One may argue about it until the cows come home, but the fact remains that at present Amtrak is committed to 25Hz, and is in the process of installling additional 25Hz conversion facilities at Metuchen, and will be in the future upgrading several other conversion facilities' capacity.

One gain from converting to 60Hz would be the possibility of shedding some transformer weight from all power rolling stock.

While it is true that it is Amtrak's own distribution infrastructure that saved it from the utility supply meltdown, practically speaking the reason that Amtrak has its own distribution network is because it cannot use any other network. If it had converted to 60Hz, it would most likely have gotten out of the business of running its own network and baught power from utilities at the trackside substations.


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## jis

Now we know how East River Tunnel 1 got flooded. Tunnel 1 and Tunnel 2 share a sump pump. When Tunnel 2 flooded it overwhelmed the sump pump and water flowed through the sump from Tunnel 2 to Tunnel 1. According to the same post in trainorders Tunnel 4 never flooded. There were other problems in using it initially.

From another post we learn that NJT M&E service cannot be restarted until the washout in the vicinity of Kearny, where the M&E ducks under the NEC is fixed, and electrification poles which had their foudnations undermined by scouring of flood flow are replaced.


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## CHamilton

From Amtrak on Facebook:



> As a public service to support the recovery of the Northeast, we are extending for another week free travel to first responders on the Northeast Corridor.


Did I miss an earlier announcement? The same post says:



> We are proud to partner with the city of Slidell, LA., to bring a railcar donated with relief supplies to New Jersey communities hit hard by Hurricane Sandy. The Train of Hope 2012 - Hurricane Sandy Relief Efforts for New Jersey, will arrive in Newark N.J. tomorrow on the northbound Cresent that left New Orleans today.


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## Nathanael

Sigh. So, thanks to shortsighted decisions, power will be down until custom 25 Hz parts can be manufactured for Kearny. Well, from Amtrak's POV that's fine because that's enough power to run Amtrak, but NJT is SOL for the foreseeable future.

Of course, we can't expect NJT (which is the main entity harmed by this) to do anything. It seems to have a history of poor planning. The state of NJ is the entity which should be standardizing the power distribution system and setting up redundant distribution networks, but that clearly isn't going to happen.



> From another post we learn that NJT M&E service cannot be restarted until the washout in the vicinity of Kearny, where the M&E ducks under the NEC is fixed, and electrification poles which had their foudnations undermined by scouring of flood flow are replaced.


People who commute to Newark Broad Street from points west are going to be very unhappy about the decision to treat them as if they don't exist. My respect for NJT is dropping daily.


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## jis

One thing that people don't seem to realize is that NJT is run by the NJ DoT which is primarily a department focused on highways and road transport, and NJT's internal organization is rotten to the core. It is an absolute wonder that NJTRO actually operates at all....


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## AlanB

By way of an update, yesterday I was on 2250 to Boston and we used the Line 2 tunnel. Not sure why, and I'm not sure if that means that Line 1 is still out or not. But I was quite surprised to pop up on the wrong side of the LIRR Hunterspoint Station.

I'll see what happens as we head back today, maybe we'll go in via the LIne 1 tunnel. :lol:


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## jis

Alan they have been doing a bunch of real weird routines through Harold ever since the storm. Maybe they got used to being weird


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## jis

The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.

http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.
> 
> http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf


I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.


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## jis

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.
> 
> http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.
Click to expand...

Of course not. That was mostly much hoo-ha about nothing. Amtrak has to get most of the 25Hz stuff from Europe as it turns out anyway, specially when it comes to frequency converters and such, as we were told by the Amtrak Engineer in charge of uprating the Metuchen Converter station. I am sure it is not that hard to obtain a 25Hz transformer. PRR you would know this better than anyone else here, but at least the Physics of it suggests that a 60Hz transformer should be operable at a lower power rating at 25Hz with relatively minor changes. So it is not like one has to start constructing a new transformer starting from the core after one receives an order for a 25Hz transformer, and the switchgear should mostly be frequency insensitive, unless I am missing something big. Hey worst case just haul in an off the shelf 16.67Hz transformer from DB's suppliers and run with it.


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.
> 
> http://www.amtrak.co...T-Statement.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that nasty 25Hz stuff was not such a big deal after all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. That was mostly much hoo-ha about nothing. Amtrak has to get most of the 25Hz stuff from Europe as it turns out anyway, specially when it comes to frequency converters and such, as we were told by the Amtrak Engineer in charge of uprating the Metuchen Converter station. I am sure it is not that hard to obtain a 25Hz transformer. PRR you would know this better than anyone else here, but at least the Physics of it suggests that a 60Hz transformer should be operable at a lower power rating at 25Hz with relatively minor changes. So it is not like one has to start constructing a new transformer starting from the core after one receives an order for a 25Hz transformer, and the switchgear should mostly be frequency insensitive, unless I am missing something big. Hey worst case just haul in an off the shelf 16.67Hz transformer from DB's suppliers and run with it.
Click to expand...

I don't have any insider info, but I doubt they even needed transformers. Power transformers are tightly-sealed to keep the oil in and water out. They typically survive flooding only needed a good power washing. Breakers are a different issue, but 60Hz breakers will work at 25Hz with just minor rating adjustments. Floods tend to play the most havoc with the protection and control system - instrument transformers, microprocessor relays, cables and connectors, and stuff like that. The items that cannot be simply cleaned and put back, are largely off the shelf, particularly in an emergency.


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## transit54

jis said:


> The Kearny substation which was taken down by floods, and which supplies power to the NEC between Newark and New York will be coming back on line on the 16th of November thus restoring full power to the NEC allowing further service expansion to full normal schedules, modulo of course the East River Tunnel restrictions due to Absolute Block operation between Penn Station and F on tracks 1 and 2, with automatics out in those tunnels.


Is there any estimate on the repair of the signaling in the East River Tunnels to return that to normal condition? Is there an idea of how much work needs to be done?


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## jis

transit54 said:


> Is there any estimate on the repair of the signaling in the East River Tunnels to return that to normal condition? Is there an idea of how much work needs to be done?


Don't have details, but I have heard from usually reliable sources that essentially a substantial portion of the system has to be taken out, cleaned and some parts replaced and then reassembled. Several weeks to months is what I have heard, but of course those can change depending on priority setting and funding.


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## Nathanael

Great relief. I guess they didn't have as much damage as they originally thought, and they don't have to manufacture new 25 Hz parts. 

I was too pessimistic. I do that.


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## jis

Nathanael said:


> Great relief. I guess they didn't have as much damage as they originally thought, and they don't have to manufacture new 25 Hz parts.
> 
> I was too pessimistic. I do that.


The point is that even if they had to find 25Hz parts it would not have delayed things significantly more than for finding 60Hz parts, or at least that is what the Amtrak project engineer dealing with such stuff tells me. But of course one could say since he is already tainted being one who works for Amtrak we shall not believe what he says I suppose.


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## A. Manley

I am writing this post in the hopes that someone high up in the Amtrak Management Team will actually read it and respond with an approproate gesture. I had booked travel from Richmond, VA to Providence, RI back in June of this year for Nov. 2 to Nov. 4 round trip. I followed up with Amtrak several days before due to concerns that Hurricane Sandy would disrupt rail service during that period. On the last day before the trip I was informed that CSX had terminated rail service above Philadeplhia, PA and that I should have NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER getting a refund on my tickets as a result. I asked for the refund and was told that the money would be put back into my account between 3 days and 1 week from my request, which I accepted. I then expended more funds (which we really couldn't afford at the time) tanking up our vehicle and made the entire trip without incident (this was an emergency family trip to visit a dying relative). I checked our house account to see if the money had been returned after we made it back home, and of course it hadn't.

I called Amtrak at 1800-USA-RAIL and spoke to a representative who informed me that the transaction was not processed as a refund but rather an e-voucher to be used at a later date. I informed her of our financial status and requested the money be returned to us instead of a voucher, and she said she would put through the request for me. I then waited another 4 days.

Nothing happened.

I called back and asked to speak to a Billing Dept. representative who informed me that the voucher was NOT processed and was still on hold for use. I re-explained to him our situation and how we were told rail service was cancelled on us, and he said he would personally go through this again and see that it gets returned back to us as a refund. I hung up with him and waited until today (Nov. 15th), periodically checking our account for the needed funds.

Nothing. Yet again.

I just got off the phone with a billing representative who informed me that I had purchased these tkts, back in June, as NON-REFUNDABLE RAIL SERVICE TICKETS, and that the rail lines WERE OPEN DURING THE TIME AMTRAK HAD SUPPOSEDLY CANCELLED THE TRAVEL SERVICE.

THIS IS A LIE SINCE PENN STATION IN NEW YORK CITY WAS UNDERWATER FOR DAYS FOLLOWING THE HURRICANE, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT AMTRAK WAS NOT RUNNING ANY SORT OF SHUTTLE SERVICE TO BYPASS THE CLOSED OUT AREAS.

So, now I have useless E-vouchers for a rail service I will NEVER AGAIN USE due to dishonesty and deceit caused by your customer service center. I will be posting this across as many local and US. News services as possible so that people can be made aware of Amtrak's policies regarding lying to its customers.

I don't expect I will ever receive an answer back from this company. I don't expect I will ever see my $249 back for my unused e-tickets. And I DON'T EXPECT to EVER DEAL WITH AMTRAK AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT.


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## PRR 60

A. Manley said:


> I am writing this post in the hopes that someone high up in the Amtrak Management Team will actually read it and respond with an approproate gesture. I had booked travel from Richmond, VA to Providence, RI back in June of this year for Nov. 2 to Nov. 4 round trip. I followed up with Amtrak several days before due to concerns that Hurricane Sandy would disrupt rail service during that period. On the last day before the trip I was informed that CSX had terminated rail service above Philadeplhia, PA and that I should have NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER getting a refund on my tickets as a result. I asked for the refund and was told that the money would be put back into my account between 3 days and 1 week from my request, which I accepted. I then expended more funds (which we really couldn't afford at the time) tanking up our vehicle and made the entire trip without incident (this was an emergency family trip to visit a dying relative). I checked our house account to see if the money had been returned after we made it back home, and of course it hadn't.
> 
> I called Amtrak at 1800-USA-RAIL and spoke to a representative who informed me that the transaction was not processed as a refund but rather an e-voucher to be used at a later date. I informed her of our financial status and requested the money be returned to us instead of a voucher, and she said she would put through the request for me. I then waited another 4 days.
> 
> Nothing happened.
> 
> I called back and asked to speak to a Billing Dept. representative who informed me that the voucher was NOT processed and was still on hold for use. I re-explained to him our situation and how we were told rail service was cancelled on us, and he said he would personally go through this again and see that it gets returned back to us as a refund. I hung up with him and waited until today (Nov. 15th), periodically checking our account for the needed funds.
> 
> Nothing. Yet again.
> 
> I just got off the phone with a billing representative who informed me that I had purchased these tkts, back in June, as NON-REFUNDABLE RAIL SERVICE TICKETS, and that the rail lines WERE OPEN DURING THE TIME AMTRAK HAD SUPPOSEDLY CANCELLED THE TRAVEL SERVICE.
> 
> THIS IS A LIE SINCE PENN STATION IN NEW YORK CITY WAS UNDERWATER FOR DAYS FOLLOWING THE HURRICANE, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT AMTRAK WAS NOT RUNNING ANY SORT OF SHUTTLE SERVICE TO BYPASS THE CLOSED OUT AREAS.
> 
> So, now I have useless E-vouchers for a rail service I will NEVER AGAIN USE due to dishonesty and deceit caused by your customer service center. I will be posting this across as many local and US. News services as possible so that people can be made aware of Amtrak's policies regarding lying to its customers.
> 
> I don't expect I will ever receive an answer back from this company. I don't expect I will ever see my $249 back for my unused e-tickets. And I DON'T EXPECT to EVER DEAL WITH AMTRAK AGAIN IF I CAN HELP IT.


As you probably know, this site is not owned or operated by Amtrak. So, there is nothing any of us can do directly other than sympathize, give you some advice, and hope that someone that does work for Amtrak reads your post and can make things right.

It turns out that November 2 was the first day that Amtrak was able to run any service between New York and Providence, and even then, it was only a couple of trains. I can’t see how Amtrak could hold you to the non-refundable restriction of your fare given the extraordinary circumstances of the storm. My suggestion is to call back to Amtrak and ask specifically to speak to Customer Relations. Those are the folks that have some power to make changes (the regular phone agents have little or no power). Explain to Customer Relations that Amtrak told you prior to your travel date that there was no assurance that your November 2 train was going to operate, that you had to make alternate travel arrangements, and that Amtrak agents told you that your fare would be refunded. See what the Customer Relations folks say.


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## A. Manley

Calling them now. I also received phone numbers for Amtrak's Inspector General for investigating customer claims as well as my local senator's office John Warner who is part of the travel board here in Virginia, so if Customer Relations will do nothing about this, they can. According to a native New Yorker and friend of mine, Amtrak has always been allowed to refund even non-refundable tickets in cases of "Act Of God" situations, and this most definitely counts as that condition. And as far as track service opening on the day we were leaving out? You are right, VERY LIMITED rail service was finally permitted in the late afternoon/evening hours, but our service was in the morning, around 06:30AM to be exact. This is why the reservations office told us to go ahead and cancel our tickets now (late evening Nov. 1st) without penalty so we could receive our funds back quicker.


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## gatelouse

A. Manley,

While I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, there are a couple of inconsistencies in your narrative. First, you mentioned the trip was for a family emergency, yet it was booked 5 months ago? Second, I'm having trouble understanding how a $249 r/t fare RVR-PVD is non refundable. The primary (only?) non-refundable tickets on the NEC are the 14-day advance purchase fares, which for RVR-PVD run about $70 each way for an adult, $35 for a child. It's not mathematically possible to come up with a combination resulting in ~$250.

What probably happened was that the first agent you spoke with didn't actually refund your ticket, causing you to no-show for your train, resulting in an automatic eVoucher. Turning this into a refund ought to be no problem given your Nov 2 travel date.

BTW who told you that CSX had shut down service north of Philly?


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## johnny.menhennet

gatelouse said:


> While I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, there are a couple of inconsistencies in your narrative. First, you mentioned the trip was for a family emergency, yet it was booked 5 months ago?


This was crossing my mind as well. I have no idea where he would've gotten CSX either. Even some of the worst Amtrak agents would know better than that.


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## NE933

On my Keystone, one of the first to resume after the storm, i noticed the outside local tracks in Jersey had a strong, consistant coating of rust on the top wheel surface. All rail traffic ceased for two or three days and of course the heavy rains fell. But does oes rust oxidation occur that rapidly?


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## Ryan

On unprotected metal? Certainly.


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## CHamilton

> Exclusive: New Jersey railway put trains in Sandy flood zone despite warnings
> 
> NEW YORK (Reuters) - New Jersey Transit's struggle to recover from Superstorm Sandy is being compounded by a pre-storm decision to park much of its equipment in two rail yards that forecasters predicted would flood, a move that resulted in damage to one-third of its locomotives and a quarter of its passenger cars.
> 
> That damage is likely to cost tens of millions of dollars and take many months to repair, a Reuters examination has found.


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## CHamilton

NJ Transit Assailed for Lack of Information, Poor Planning



> New Jersey’s commuter rail system returned to its normal schedule on several lines today, but delays continue to hamper commuters, and three weeks after Sandy, there are still questions about how well prepared the agency was for the storm.
> 
> While the NYC MTA, the agency that runs the New York subway system, has received high marks for preparation and response to the unprecedented flooding, NJ Transit has drawn the ire of its riders for a slower restoration of service and a lag in communicating what was working and what wasn’t so that New Jersey commuters could plan their altered, and lengthened commutes.
> 
> Josh Crandall who created a website called Clever Commute, where people share information about NJ Transit delays with each other because traditionally that information hasn’t been provided by NJ Transit fast enough. He was hearing from a lot of people who were upset by the lack of communication.


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## CHamilton

Post-Sandy Fixes To NYC Subways To Cost Billions



> Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Joe Lhota – testified in Washington on Thursday before a Senate subcommittee about the extent of the damage.
> "We're nowhere near normal operations. It's important to remember that hundreds of millions of gallons saltwater completely inundated our system that's over 100 years old. We will be feeling effects of this storm for months if not years to come," Lhota said.
> 
> Lhota estimates it will cost $5 billion to get the subway system back to where it was before Sandy.


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