# Lake Shore Limited discussion



## pennyk (Jul 15, 2021)

The last time I was on the Lakeshore Limited, the NY sleeper were in the rear. Is that still the case now? I have not taken 49 in a long time and am considering taking it as part of my cross country points trip in early December.

Thanks.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 15, 2021)

Yes, the New York sleepers are in the rear.

The typical current consist is as follows:

P-42 (BOS)
P-42 (BOS)
Viewliner I Sleeper (BOS)
Amfleet I Cafe/Business Class (BOS)
Amfleet II Coach (BOS)
Amfleet II Coach (BOS)
Amfleet II Coach (NYP)
Amfleet II Coach (NYP)
Viewliner II Sleeper Lounge/Diner (NYP)
Viewliner I Sleeper (NYP)
Viewliner I Sleeper (NYP)
Viewliner II Baggage (NYP)


----------



## zephyr17 (Jul 15, 2021)

Anyone know if they are allowing lounge use of the Viewliner diner ("sleeper lounge")?


----------



## pennyk (Jul 15, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Anyone know if they are allowing lounge use of the Viewliner diner ("sleeper lounge")?


That was going to be my next question. I travel on the Silvers all the time and I use the Sleeper Lounge quite often.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 15, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Anyone know if they are allowing lounge use of the Viewliner diner ("sleeper lounge")?


They were the last time I rode it, but it been a while.


----------



## Railroad Bill (Jul 15, 2021)

I was on 449/49 on Monday night. The consist listed above was correct. I was only in the dining car around 7 for dinner but the only people in there were passengers eating. It was a very full train and a line of people who wanted to eat in the diner. Many chose just to grab their meal and take it to their room or have the SCA bring it to them. It is possible that the NY diner may have been used as a lounge in non meal times. I know my last trip on 48 we were permitted to sit in the diner after meal time.


----------



## Exvalley (Jul 16, 2021)

Every time I have ridden the LSL, in the New York section, the odd numbered roomettes have been on the right side (facing forward). 

This is a dilemma. I prefer the left side of the train for the views of the Hudson river. But I prefer to sit facing the roomette toilet rather than right next to the toilet. Since the toilet issue is more important to me, I always book an odd numbered roomette and plan on sitting in the lounge for the first part of the trip for the Hudson river views.


----------



## jis (Jul 16, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Every time I have ridden the LSL, in the New York section, the odd numbered roomettes have been on the right side (facing forward).
> 
> This is a dilemma. I prefer the left side of the train for the views of the Hudson river. But I prefer to sit facing the roomette toilet rather than right next to the toilet. Since the toilet issue is more important to me, I always book an odd numbered roomette and plan on sitting in the lounge for the first part of the trip for the Hudson river views.


You are correct. A properly oriented Sleeper on the LSL will have odd numbered Roomettes on the RHS. I have no particular preference relative to Commodes, but I do prefer LHS, not only for the Hudson and Mohawk and Erie Canal views but also because in general you get to see more railroad stuff on the LHS, though that is less certain now with almost all main line tracks bidirectionally signaled now. 

For the first time on my recent trip to/from the OTOL shindig in Roanoke, I made extensive use of the Lounge feature of the Diner/Lounge. I met a fascinating couple both US citizens but foreign born (like me), wife Hungarian, husband Finnish, and had a long unusually deep technical conversation about many subjects including things like meta-mathematics and foundations of modeling and such. Very good exercise for the brain. We met over dinner at around 7pm and we stayed at it past midnight in the Lounge. Some alcohol and caffeine was involved naturally. This was on the Silver Meteor (98).

In decades past I have had similar experiences on the LSL too, o the better rides. OTOH on all trains sometimes one gets the other extreme where the conversation could put you to sleep in no time too.


----------



## Rasputin (Jul 16, 2021)

I am told that passengers in the Boston sleeper are requested to volunteer to take coffee up to the engine crew during certain stops and these volunteers receive extra guest reward points for doing so. They also operate the locomotive at times for the convenience of the engine crew and receive 100 guest reward points for every correct whistle sequence.


----------



## pennyk (Jul 16, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Every time I have ridden the LSL, in the New York section, the odd numbered roomettes have been on the right side (facing forward).
> 
> This is a dilemma. I prefer the left side of the train for the views of the Hudson river. But I prefer to sit facing the roomette toilet rather than right next to the toilet. Since the toilet issue is more important to me, I always book an odd numbered roomette and plan on sitting in the lounge for the first part of the trip for the Hudson river views.


Those are my thoughts exactly.


----------



## daybeers (Jul 16, 2021)

Rasputin said:


> I am told that passengers in the Boston sleeper are requested to volunteer to take coffee up to the engine crew during certain stops and these volunteers receive extra guest reward points for doing so. They also operate the locomotive at times for the convenience of the engine crew and receive 100 guest reward points for every correct whistle sequence.


Sometimes I've seen rates for roomettes be around $200 cheaper for the Boston sleeper rather than the NY one. Whether that savings is worth walking a few more cars for meals if you don't want them delivered and hearing the horn all night is up to you.


----------



## railiner (Jul 16, 2021)

Rasputin said:


> I am told that passengers in the Boston sleeper are requested to volunteer to take coffee up to the engine crew during certain stops and these volunteers receive extra guest reward points for doing so. They also operate the locomotive at times for the convenience of the engine crew and receive 100 guest reward points for every correct whistle sequence.


Today is not April 1st….


----------



## Dakota 400 (Jul 16, 2021)

railiner said:


> Today is not April 1st….



But, any day is a good day for a "funny"!


----------



## JontyMort (Jul 16, 2021)

jis said:


> You are correct. A properly oriented Sleeper on the LSL will have odd numbered Roomettes on the RHS. I have no particular preference relative to Commodes, but I do prefer LHS, not only for the Hudson and Mohawk and Erie Canal views but also because in general you get to see more railroad stuff on the LHS…


I’m definitely with you in that I like to be on the same side as the opposite track, but I’m more eccentric in that I like to travel backwards in that seat - you get the full view but running the film in reverse, so to speak. Reading these forums I do detect an aversion to travelling backwards that mirrors the view here in the UK. It isn’t really logical, but people get conditioned. For me, one of the joys of train travel will always be a journey with four people round a table.


----------



## jis (Jul 16, 2021)

JontyMort said:


> I’m definitely with you in that I like to be on the same side as the opposite track, but I’m more eccentric in that I like to travel backwards in that seat - you get the full view but running the film in reverse, so to speak. Reading these forums I do detect an aversion to travelling backwards that mirrors the view here in the UK. It isn’t really logical, but people get conditioned. For me, one of the joys of train travel will always be a journey with four people round a table.


There is no problem traveling forward or backward when in a Roomette. You can choose your direction, whichever way you like. I sometimes like to travel backwards too, and Roomettes are ideal for deciding whichever way and change the decision as many times as one wants.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 16, 2021)

Use of the "sleeper lounge" terminology seems to be fading away. On my recent trips they're mostly back to calling it the dining car or the "sleeper diner" as one of my SCAs called it. Coming home on my recent trip on the LSL use of the diner was completely unrestricted -all tables open except for ones used by crew - and in both cases the ordering process was more similar to traditional dining - the LSA instructed me to take a seat and eventually came over to take my order and provided table service. On the way back it seemed there was an second OBS employee working in the diner. Although it was the flex meals, both trips provided good service. All the flex meals on my trip (lake shore both ways and Zephyr out and Coast Starlight EMY - LAX - my eastbound return leg on the chief was traditional dining) tasted better than previous trips on the Silvers - they appear to be using ovens now instead of microwave heating - I could see the LSA opening the convection oven as I was leaving the diner heading back up to the Boston sleeper - looked like Subway/Dunkin donuts ovens where the door opens out and downward..


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 16, 2021)

This is good news for the Eastern Trains, which unfortunately still don't have a "date certain " when Traditonal Dinning will return, but at least there is a place to " Lounge" unlike the Texas Eagle and Cap, which currently don't have Sightseer Lounges, and use CCC Food Service Cars to serve the Flex Meals and the Cafe Menu..( Coach Passengers can't eat in the Diner side and Sleeper passengers can't hang out in the Diner side,)

ALL Passengers are not allowed to use the Cafe end of the Car since the Crew uses the few tables there as a Crew Lounge!

And One LSA is doing the Work of 4 on the Eagles by running the Cafe,, the Diner, the Kitchen and Taking orders and Serving.


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jul 16, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> And One LSA is doing the Work of 4 on the Eagles by running the Cafe,, the Diner, the Kitchen and Taking orders and Serving.



And that is exactly how you force poor attitudes among crews, and cause attrition rates to go higher. If you work an employee to death they will do a progressively poorer job, and will eventually effect their health and well being. Usually that point the employee quits and you have to hire someone new.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 17, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> This is good news for the Eastern Trains, which unfortunately still don't have a "date certain " when Traditonal Dinning will return, but at least there is a place to " Lounge" unlike the Texas Eagle and Cap, which currently don't have Sightseer Lounges, and use CCC Food Service Cars to serve the Flex Meals and the Cafe Menu..( Coach Passengers can't eat in the Diner side and Sleeper passengers can't hang out in the Diner side,)
> 
> ALL Passengers are not allowed to use the Cafe end of the Car since the Crew uses the few tables there as a Crew Lounge!
> 
> And One LSA is doing the Work of 4 on the Eagles by running the Cafe,, the Diner, the Kitchen and Taking orders and Serving.


For Eastern trains - Only the lake shore and silvers are running with a both a staffed dining car and separate staffed cafe car. The CONO is a similar situation to the cap and eagle with the CCC car except the CONO also has an unstaffed SSL in the consist where one can sit. The Crescent and Cardinal are running with split Amfleet cafe/dinette cars. I predict if traditional dining returns to the east it will be expanded to the silvers and the lake shore. The other VL2s diners will be turned to cafe/diner combos and they’ll maybe revamp the flexible dining setup for the remaining trains - I think eventually the CL is going to change to single level equipment - if it does the CL, Crescent, and Cardinal would get the modified cars. Just a guess based on what they are doing now - could be totally wrong.


----------



## barskin (Jul 18, 2021)

Hi, newbie here. Out of excitement, I bought my tickets well in advance (January 2 departure) for a trip from Boston to San Antonio (and back again). I am taking the LSL in a roomette from Boston to Chicago, then the TE in a bedroom to San Antonio . I need a decent amount of luggage for my weeklong stay, and I read that I can no longer check baggage for the LSL from Boston. I will be alone, so how much luggage will I be able to comfortably fit in a roomette? I plan to check my luggage for the TE part of the trip. Also, if I may be so bold, may I ask about....toilets. Okay, there I said it - toilets. Do you think there will still be toilets in the LSL roomettes in the beginning of January. I booked the roomette believing there would be one, but now I hear about the remodeling going on, so I wonder. Will I have to be scurrying to bathrooms? 

(I hope I am asking this on the correct thread)


----------



## pennyk (Jul 18, 2021)

barskin said:


> Hi, newbie here. Out of excitement, I bought my tickets well in advance (January 2 departure) for a trip from Boston to San Antonio (and back again). I am taking the LSL in a roomette from Boston to Chicago, then the TE in a bedroom to San Antonio . I need a decent amount of luggage for my weeklong stay, and I read that I can no longer check baggage for the LSL from Boston. I will be alone, so how much luggage will I be able to comfortably fit in a roomette? I plan to check my luggage for the TE part of the trip. Also, if I may be so bold, may I ask about....toilets. Okay, there I said it - toilets. Do you think there will still be toilets in the LSL roomettes in the beginning of January. I booked the roomette believing there would be one, but now I hear about the remodeling going on, so I wonder. Will I have to be scurrying to bathrooms?
> 
> (I hope I am asking this on the correct thread)


The roomettes are fairly small, but in the Viewliner sleepers (Lake Shore Limited), there is a storage space above the hallway. (there are some threads with photos that describe the space) I rarely use that space because I travel very light and I am short with shoulders that do not like my lifting anything heavy over my head. Others can tell you the approximate space available. About the toilets.... I am hoping that the Lake Shore Limited will still be running with Viewliner 1 sleepers in December (since I booked a trip in a roomette for then). My "home" train is the Silver Meteor, which now runs with 2 new Viewliner sleepers and one older one. Because of the toilet situation, I now book bedrooms on the Silvers (which usually cost me more than double that of a roomette). Before booking my LSL roomette for December, I asked a very knowledgeable friend for his opinion whether new sleepers will be on the LSL in December. He responded that most likely they would not.

With regard to luggage, I suggest that you reconsider the amount of luggage you wish to take. Too much luggage can be a burden when traveling.

Edit to add links to threads regarding Viewliner storage: Roomette luggage capacity





Luggage question


Hmmmmmm...the more I ask, the more I want to know! What's the story with checked luggage and/or carry ons? My details: Lake Shore Limited (NY Penn to Chicago) roundtrip - in a roomette with my husband I've read so many different things, I'm not sure I have it all straight in my head. I...




www.amtraktrains.com


----------



## PVD (Jul 18, 2021)

If you are traveling alone, the upper bunk makes a great luggage rack on a viewliner. While there is no baggage car running on the Boston leg, some have mentioned bringing bags a day early and having them sent overnight to NYP on your train's NY section Not sure if this is still done, or if it is practical for you or if you would be comfortable with it.


----------



## Rasputin (Jul 18, 2021)

pennyk said:


> The roomettes are fairly small, but in the Viewliner sleepers (Lake Shore Limited), there is a storage space above the hallway. (there are some threads with photos that describe the space) I rarely use that space because I travel very light and I am short with shoulders that do not like my lifting anything heavy over my head. Others can tell you the approximate space available.


I took a tape measure with me on viewliner sleeper trip a view years ago. This is the result which I posted in another thread:

"The overhead storage bin in a Viewliner roomette is 21 inches deep, 16 inches tall and 35 and half inches wide so you can measure your luggage and compare the measurements to this space. There is a raised rim at the opening which is one or two inches tall and there is a railing at the opening to hold the luggage in place.

Note that in order to place luggage into the storage bin, the luggage has to clear a protruding light fixture and the railing mentioned above and this clearance is a little over 12 inches. So although the storage bin is 16 inches tall, a suitcase with rigid sides much over 12 inches thick would not fit into the bin because you wouldn't be able to get it through the opening.

Also note that if your luggage it heavy, it may take considerable effort to boost it up into the storage bin."

NOTE: This information is from the roomettes in the old viewliner sleepers (viewliner Is, I believe). I don't know if it holds true for the roomettes in the new viewliner sleepers but hopefully someone can remember to take a tape measure and provide the answer.


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jul 18, 2021)

It's funny on a Viewliner I use the lower berth as the luggage rack and I use only the upper bunk for the entire trip. You can store a lot of stuff on the lower berth.


----------



## PVD (Jul 18, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> It's funny on a Viewliner I use the lower berth as the luggage rack and I use only the upper bunk for the entire trip. You can store a lot of stuff on the lower berth.


I like to sit in the chair and use the laptop on the table, so it's the opposite for me...


----------



## daybeers (Jul 18, 2021)

@barskin Welcome to AU, and thanks so much for supporting the site! I hope your questions have been answered, but feel free to ask more! Enjoy your trip.


----------



## barskin (Jul 20, 2021)

Thank you so much for all your answers. As to traveling lighter, well, you see, I am spending a week in San Antonio, and I am, well, how you say...a woman. So, I will try valiantly to streamline my take alongs, but I need _stuff. _I think I will use the upper berth as luggage rack solution. Fortunately, I'll be able to check my luggage when I get to Chicago.


----------



## NYP2NFL01 (Apr 18, 2022)

Just booked a round-trip on 49 (4911) and
48 (4812) in August from NYP to TOL. Are the VLII sleepers on this route yet? Are either of these cars a VLII? Just curious. Thanks


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Apr 18, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Just booked a round-trip on 49 (4911) and
> 48 (4812) in August from NYP to TOL. Are the VLII sleepers on this route yet? Are either of these cars a VLII? Just curious. Thanks


4812 should be a VLII. 4911 should be a VLI


----------



## amtrakpass (Apr 19, 2022)

a few weeks ago I had 4812 and it was a Viewliner 2 and 4811 and the Boston section was a Viewliner 1. It was my first time in the newer car. One unexpected issue for me in the lower bunk was the fixed bracket that sticks out from the wall with the cupholders seemed to me to be somewhat wider than the Viewliner 1's and protrude too much toward the mattress where I kept bumping into it and disturbing my sleep. Not sure why that couldn't be made to fold away or be a little narrower. But depending on your own body you may not even notice it. Other than that, it was nice to ride in a newer car. I actually would rather have the newer config restroom down the hall although I know some will always prefer the old style in room restroom


----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)

Chellerz said:


> View attachment 28889


----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)

In 4911 Roomette 2. Best way to travel!!!


----------



## Amtrak25 (Jul 21, 2022)

Get a load of the consist numbers of the Amcoach-2's. When they Capstoned them 15 years ago, they paneled over access to them. Same is true of the end doors. A sheet of stainless covered up access to the rollers. Sloppy engineering. The correct numbers must be known internally to the crews, and the Superliners display them correctly.


----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Get a load of the consist numbers of the Amcoach-2's. When they Capstoned them 15 years ago, they paneled over access to them. Same is true of the end doors. A sheet of stainless covered up access to the rollers. Sloppy engineering. The correct numbers must be known internally to the crews, and the Superliners display them correctly.


I wish I understood what you were talking about! How can I learn? I’m newly fascinated by this stuff.


----------



## Amtrak25 (Jul 21, 2022)

Chellerz said:


> I wish I understood what you were talking about! How can I learn? I’m newly fascinated by this stuff.



Look at the Amcoach-2 car photos, which are car numbers in the 25000-series. Then behind a little window, you see 2508, 9777, 9843. Those are consist numbers, like the sleepers are 4911 and 4912 in LED. These others are old-fashioned mylar roll signs for each digit like you once saw on buses and subways. 

The first 2 digits are the train's number, followed by a 2 digit consist number. Trains 97 and 98 are the Silver Meteor. The next 2 digits are random settings as they make no sense. These cars never ran on Train 25 - the Pioneer. They probably should be in the 30-series.


----------



## joelkfla (Jul 21, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Get a load of the consist numbers of the Amcoach-2's. When they Capstoned them 15 years ago, they paneled over access to them. Same is true of the end doors. A sheet of stainless covered up access to the rollers. Sloppy engineering. The correct numbers must be known internally to the crews, and the Superliners display them correctly.


They're obviously not significant for coaches. The ones that are still visible have random numbers displayed.

Sleeper Passengers have a car number on their ticket, but coach seating is either open or assigned by crew.


----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)

Interesting! So how did they end up on train 49?


----------



## Amtrak25 (Jul 21, 2022)

Amfleet-2's were always on all the eastern long-hauls.
They are pretty good about setting them properly on the Superliner coaches.


----------



## Chellerz (Jul 21, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> a few weeks ago I had 4812 and it was a Viewliner 2 and 4811 and the Boston section was a Viewliner 1. It was my first time in the newer car. One unexpected issue for me in the lower bunk was the fixed bracket that sticks out from the wall with the cupholders seemed to me to be somewhat wider than the Viewliner 1's and protrude too much toward the mattress where I kept bumping into it and disturbing my sleep. Not sure why that couldn't be made to fold away or be a little narrower. But depending on your own body you may not even notice it. Other than that, it was nice to ride in a newer car. I actually would rather have the newer config restroom down the hall although I know some will always prefer the old style in room restroom


I’m in a Viewliner I right now but I’m still wandering down into the Viewliner II restrooms…


----------



## glensfallsse (Jul 21, 2022)

Coincidentally, I was on 448 today, from Chicago to Albany. There were five coaches and it was full. End of a x-country journey also involving the Sunset Limited and the City of New Orleans.
The Boston passengers were bussed. Anybody know why? I didn’t know about it until I got to Albany.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 21, 2022)

glensfallsse said:


> Coincidentally, I was on 448 today, from Chicago to Albany. There were five coaches and it was full. End of a x-country journey also involving the Sunset Limited and the City of New Orleans.
> The Boston passengers were bussed. Anybody know why? I didn’t know about it until I got to Albany.


CSX track work.


----------



## John Santos (Jul 22, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> CSX track work.


... Which, according to Amtrak's Service Advisory page Service Alerts & Notices | Amtrak was supposed to end today (July 21, 2022), though someone on the other thread said Amtrak informed them yesterday morning that they were being bustituted between Albany and Boston. But they didn't specify train number or direction (east or west) or departure date, so I don't know if CSX has extended the construction or not.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 22, 2022)

John Santos said:


> ... Which, according to Amtrak's Service Advisory page Service Alerts & Notices | Amtrak was supposed to end today (July 21, 2022), though someone on the other thread said Amtrak informed them yesterday morning that they were being bustituted between Albany and Boston. But they didn't specify train number or direction (east or west) or departure date, so I don't know if CSX has extended the construction or not.



According to what I have heard they have extended their work.


----------



## amydeg (Jul 22, 2022)

John Santos said:


> ... Which, according to Amtrak's Service Advisory page Service Alerts & Notices | Amtrak was supposed to end today (July 21, 2022), though someone on the other thread said Amtrak informed them yesterday morning that they were being bustituted between Albany and Boston. But they didn't specify train number or direction (east or west) or departure date, so I don't know if CSX has extended the construction or not.



That was me. It was the 448 departing Chicago on 8/2.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jul 22, 2022)

Both 448 and 449 show up today (7/22) on asm.transitdocs.com


----------



## west point (Jul 24, 2022)

May be heat has slowed the work? More employees dropping out for cooling down? Equipment might be up to higher temps for northern assigned track work.?


----------



## Rasputin (Jul 24, 2022)

west point said:


> May be heat has slowed the work? More employees dropping out for cooling down? Equipment might be up to higher temps for northern assigned track work.?


Whatever the reason, legitimate or not, one thing is true in these annual projects: The Boston section of the Lake Shore (448 and 449) and its passengers always take it on the chin.


----------



## PVD (Jul 24, 2022)

And since the line is in the hands of the MBTA at one end, and CSX at the other, there is very little Amtrak can do.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jul 24, 2022)

PVD said:


> And since the line is in the hands of the MBTA at one end, and CSX at the other, there is very little Amtrak can do.


Well, at the very end into Albany, the Post Road branch is dispatched by Amtrak.

But CSX has it between MBTA and a few miles short of Albany.


----------



## Kramerica (Jul 24, 2022)

Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.


----------



## Rasputin (Jul 24, 2022)

Kramerica said:


> Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.


I do not see any information on the Amtrak website about how long the extension of the CSX track work (and its resultant 448/449 bustitutions) will last. The service alert for the initial track work has been taken down and a new service alert has not been posted. Posting timely and accurate notices of cancellations/bustitutions of 448 and 449 has not been one of Amtrak's strong points. Maybe someone in the group has more information but otherwise we are in the dark.

I hope that your trip goes well and you will not endure an Albany - Boston bustitution. However I see that your itinerary involves visiting Boston and New York. If you wanted to be extra cautious, I would suggest that you modify the first leg of your trip to travel MKE-NYC and then take a New York to Boston regional or Acela to reach Boston and avoid the Boston section of the Lake Shore.


----------



## bratkinson (Jul 24, 2022)

Apparently, Amtraks' web site fails to show any alerts for 448/449 after the trackwork supposed to be completed this past Thursday. Aparently, the left hand doesn't know WHEN it will be completed as last Thursdays' end date was actually an extension from the previous week, if I recall correctly. 

BUT...just for kicks, I went to Amtrak.com and found that 448 is bused Monday and Tuesday. I didn't look any further. So, if things go this week like the previous week, #449 from BOS runs today, but no #448 to BOS today through Thursday, inclusive. However, I'm guessing that it's one day at a time. Maybe they ran a day or two longer than expected and only need a couple more days. In my best 'Dirty Harry' imitation: "Do you feel lucky?" (at least for this week)


----------



## haroldo (Jul 25, 2022)

As I believe another traveler found out, 448 is bused on Aug 2 (Aug 1 - Aug 4, it turns out). but according to the online booking software it's back up and running on Aug 9.


----------



## B&Ofan (Jul 28, 2022)

I'm traveling on 449 pm Aug 16 I hope things are cleared up by then.


----------



## lordsigma (Jul 28, 2022)

Kramerica said:


> Anyone have any idea how long this bustitution will last? My family is scheduled on 448 on 8/19. This is our first family Amtrak trip. (MKE-BOS-NYC-MKE) Would be a huge letdown to be on a bus for half a day. We would have picked a different destination.


If you are leaving on Friday you should have no problem. CSX is not doing any weekend work.


----------



## Kramerica (Jul 28, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> If you are leaving on Friday you should have no problem. CSX is not doing any weekend work.


We leave Chicago on Thursday and arrive in Boston Friday night. Do they work on Friday evenings?


----------



## fdaley (Jul 28, 2022)

The Boston Lake Shore has been running eastbound from Albany on Fridays and Saturdays (so Thursday & Friday departures from Chicago) throughout the work period. Westbound 449 has been running out of Boston on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.

It's been pretty more or less the same pattern -- with bustitution on most days for much of June and July -- every summer for most of the past decade. Makes that train very hard to use at this time of year.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Jul 30, 2022)

Don't have time for a detailed reply, but the LSL has been messed up by a near-collapsed building near Albany. You might want to look at other threads for more information. No idea at all how long it will take to resolve.


----------



## n3rdg1rl (Jul 31, 2022)

I just hope this all gets cleared up by October. My husband is taking his first Amtrak trip with me (CLE - BOS) and all I need is there to be massive changes, so he'll never ride with me again.


----------



## rs9 (Oct 17, 2022)

Previously, I've only taken the Lake Shore Limited in business class. In a few weeks I'll be trying out coach for the first time. I am aware that on 48 out of Chicago, passengers are boarded into particular cars based on their destination - generally the last coach car is NYP passengers, for example.

I'll be on 49 from NYP-CHI. Given that two separate trains are combining at Albany (449 and 49), are coach passengers "redistributed" at Albany? One of the reasons I ask is that looking at load factors after Albany, the 449 section of the train is often at higher occupancy than the 49 section. As I'm traveling on a Sunday, I've been monitoring Sunday loads. This past weekend (10/16), after Rochester, 449 was still listed as 90% full, while 49 was down to 70% full.

I guess what I'm wondering is - after Albany, can passengers relocate in coach?


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 17, 2022)

If your going to Chicago the general plan is to keep the longs distance passenger in one coach. This way the conductor does not have to hunt for passenger. It also provides a quiet place for people to sleep. This of course does not work out perfectly, but it’s the plan.

Can you switch, not really. You can ask about relocating to a less full coach, but it’s a not likely unless your in a coach designated for shorts. Your conductor stuff people in cars by final destination, and the attendant does not normally have a manifest available.

On the Lake Shore limited on a Sunday going west. You find the coach are pretty fill with college students. The packed coaches will empty out before Buffalo, and it will be quite empty going across Ohio in the morning. The LSL is the last train across NY, so it’s quite busy.


----------



## rs9 (Oct 17, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> If your going to Chicago the general plan is to keep the longs distance passenger in one coach. This way the conductor does not have to hunt for passenger. It also provides a quiet place for people to sleep. This of course does not work out perfectly, but it’s the plan.
> 
> Can you switch, not really. You can ask about relocating to a less full coach, but it’s a not likely unless your in a coach designated for shorts. Your conductor stuff people in cars by final destination, and the attendant does not normally have a manifest available.
> 
> On the Lake Shore limited on a Sunday going west. You find the coach are pretty fill with college students. The pack coaches will empty out before Buffalo, and it will be quite empty going across Ohio in the morning. The LSL is the last train across NY, so it’s quite busy.


Thanks, I've noticed from the ridership trends the train seems to be always sold out from NYP but by Buffalo, it's down to the 60-70% range. Frankly, it feels like an ideal situation as a solo traveler.

I guess I'm curious of the ridership patterns of 449 and why it seems to be more packed than 49 after western NY.


----------



## jis (Oct 17, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Thanks, I've noticed from the ridership trends the train seems to be always sold out from NYP but by Buffalo, it's down to the 60-70% range. Frankly, it feels like an ideal situation as a solo traveler.
> 
> I guess I'm curious of the ridership patterns of 449 and why it seems to be more packed than 49 after western NY.


49 is in effect the last Empire Service train out of NY, so it is used a lot by upstate people to get home, and there isn’t enough ridership out of upstate NY to CHI to fill those seats vacated by the Empire Service type users of 49. 449 does not have that sort of ridership from Boston to upstate NY.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 22, 2022)

I'm wondering what happened to 448 last night. I was part of a party of 4 that had reservations to eat dinner at the Steaming Tender located in Palmer MA where the CSX Boston Line crosses the New England Central. We got there around 6:10 and 448 was showing an on time departure from SPG at 6:04 pm so we waited to see it. By 6:30 our reservation time it had not gone by so we went inside. When I checked the status it now showed over 1 hour late. Did it lose time at Springfield for some reason? I wonder what happened to it. It did finally pass about an hour later.

By the way the Steaming Tender is an excellent place to eat and in the summer you can sit outside and watch trains go by.


----------



## rs9 (Nov 2, 2022)

If there were no freight train interference on the Albany-Boston section of the LSL, what should the travel times look like for that stretch?


----------



## daybeers (Nov 2, 2022)

CSX has always been a problem at the interchange in Springfield for the LSL, Vermonter, and Valley Flyer trains between Greenfield, MA and New Haven, CT. The Vermonter has been very late the past few weeks as well, though I'm not sure that's due to CSX.


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 2, 2022)

daybeers said:


> CSX has always been a problem at the interchange in Springfield for the LSL, Vermonter, and Valley Flyer trains between Greenfield, MA and New Haven, CT. The Vermonter has been very late the past few weeks as well, though I'm not sure that's due to CSX.


They usually get the LSL through but that’s sometimes the problem with the Vermonter. If the southbound Vermonter is running late approaching the Springfield diamond and 449 is on time sometimes it will get stuck waiting for 449. And 449 generally goes first before the northbound Vermonter but that’s standard operating procedure.


----------



## Rasputin (Nov 3, 2022)

I have found that the problem with delays to 448 is sometimes the MBTA and being held in the yard at Worcester while the MBTA train crews take their break at Worcester and tie up the line, at least that is how it has seemed to be to me. It seems to be civil war era railroading at its best.

But my most recent trip on 448 was in 2019 when it was a bus. Given my poor experiences with that train, I don't know if I will ever take 448 again. I now prefer to fly home. I don't mind 449 as it seems to be run fairly well and I enjoy the scenery. For now, it is 449 going west, any airline returning east. I wish it were otherwise.


----------



## fdaley (Nov 3, 2022)

I have been on 448 when it left Albany on time and arrived at South Station more than 30 minutes early, so I know it's possible for it to cover the line in about 4 hours and 30 minutes or maybe even a bit less (4:20?) if everything goes smoothly. It seems to perform better on weekends than weekdays -- maybe fewer freights and definitely fewer commuter trains. On bad days I've also seen it take 7 hours to cover the run.

Agree with Rasputin that 449 is the better, more reliable run. The problem with 448 is that its scheduled arrival time into Boston is already rather late, and if the Lake Shore is delayed before it even gets to Albany, things can really go awry. Our last two trips on 448, it arrived at BOS at 1 a.m. and 1:45 a.m. On one trip this summer, we booked an Empire train ALB-NYP and then the Acela to BOS, which combined took 6 hours 45 minutes including transfer time (arriving 5m early), rather than taking our chances with 448. Took 449 home.


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 3, 2022)

48/448 has been pretty good as of late.


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 3, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> 48/448 has been pretty good as of late.


Looking back over the last two weeks 448 has been within 20 minutes of schedule into BOS every day but one and most of those days it was within 10 minutes of schedule - and on that day it was due to issues further west of Albany. That’s not too bad for an Amtrak LDT.


----------



## rs9 (Nov 3, 2022)

Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.

I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 3, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.
> 
> I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?


 It could be better than it is - it’s not going to beat the 2.5 hours travel time direct from BOS-ALB non stop during ideal traffic conditions as it has to make the scheduled stops. The mass pike bypasses essentially all of the other cities that have stops except Framingham which has a direct exit. In addition to having to hit Worcester Springfield and Pittsfield the route between Pittsfield and Albany - Rensellear is quite indirect.


----------



## rs9 (Nov 3, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> It could be better than it is - it’s not going to beat the 2.5 hours travel time direct from BOS-ALB non stop during ideal traffic conditions as it has to make the scheduled stops. The mass pike bypasses essentially all of the other cities that have stops except Framingham which has a direct exit. In addition to having to hit Worcester Springfield and Pittsfield the route between Pittsfield and Albany - Rensellear is quite indirect.


Thanks. The 449 bus I took is timed perfectly for no traffic, but I imagine the 448 bus would be stuck in rush hour traffic entering the city.

I'm sure this is a non-starter, but if the LSL could leave Chicago one hour earlier, it feels like a 7:30 arrival time into Boston would be a bit more competitive, and padding for those delays.


----------



## NES28 (Nov 3, 2022)

The Boston & Albany route was built very early in the Railroad Era. The routing is very circuitous, built that way to minimize the grades while the Mass. Pike accepted substantial grades. I have always thought that, at least, the Worcester (Auburn) to Palmer section should be bypassed with an electrified passenger-only routing adjacent to the Pike. A shortcut to Hartford, parallel to I-84, could diverge at Sturbridge creating a Boston-NYC route shorter and faster than the Shoreline and putting Worcester and Hartford on the mainline!


----------



## Rasputin (Nov 3, 2022)

When it comes to 448 I am afraid that I have not led a charmed life. In the ten or so times I have taken it in the past 12 years it has been early only once. On two occasions, 2014 and 2017, it was so late (4 to 7 hours late) that I and others had to spend the night in South Station because public transportation had ceased for the night and the last Concord Coach lines bus to Maine had left hours earlier. 

On my trip in 2016, 448 arrived in Boston at 11:09 p.m., three hours and 8 minutes late after departing Albany 2 hours and nine minutes late. It was only through a frantic, almost heart-attack-inducing run/fast walk (with luggage) from the South Station train station to the South Station bus station that I was able to make the last Concord bus lines bus to Maine departing at 11:15 p.m.

I am glad to hear that 448 has been making better time but I have no intention of going back.


----------



## fdaley (Nov 4, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Going back to May 1, the average delay for 448 into Boston is 30 minutes, not ideal but not catastrophic.
> 
> I am curious though - I've done the bustitution for 449, which took about 2.5 hours BOS-ALB. We went non-stop, and my understanding is the Mass Pike is much more of a straight line than the rail route BOS-ALB. How much more competitive can the time realistically become from its 4.5-5 hour block?


The Mass Pike is about 30 miles shorter from Boston to Albany, which amounts to about 15 percent shorter than the rail route. It's still 170 miles, so 2.5 hours is about the best possible road time; if there's heavy traffic around Boston, it could be 3 hours. 

Alas, the train will never cover that run in anything close to three hours without essentially rebuilding most of it on a completely new alignment. But getting the time down to something like 3:55 seems like it could be possible with some upgrades to the current route, and at that point, with a couple more frequencies that had reliable OTP, it could be a corridor people would use. I don't think it needs to be exactly car-competitive in terms of time, but it can't take twice as long. East of Springfield, where there are no mountains to speak of, much of the route right now has awfully slow running times.


----------



## NES28 (Nov 4, 2022)

I don't think that the modest improvements proposed by rs9 would attract many riders. There would be a major operating deficit that the Commonwealth would need to cover. Fast, frequent service would be profitable to operate.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Nov 4, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I have found that the problem with delays to 448 is sometimes the MBTA and being held in the yard at Worcester while the MBTA train crews take their break at Worcester and tie up the line, at least that is how it has seemed to be to me. It seems to be civil war era railroading at its best.


The problem with the old layout at Worcester is only one platform track so both MBTA and Amtrak have to compete for it. The ongoing project to add a second platform should greatly improve the situation as 448/449 will be able to platform even if MBTA is laying over there.

Worcester Station new platforms


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 4, 2022)

The local intrastate Mass ridership on 448/449 has improved since the timekeeping of 448 has improved have witnessed it myself (not hours late usually these days). I think if they went to multi frequencies a day with modest improvements to the time there’d be riders.


----------



## fdaley (Nov 4, 2022)

There was a piece in the Times Union of Albany awhile back that said the Baker administration, on its way out the door, was applying for federal funding from the infrastructure law to add two more BOS-ALB frequencies each way -- and that the NYS DOT was supporting the application. Definitely having more frequencies, with more reliability, and at least modest improvement in schedule time, would make it a much more useful route to many more people. If there were an eastbound that arrived at BOS about 11 a.m., and another by, say, 4 p.m., and presumably at least one late afternoon departure westbound, I know my family would use it lots more.


----------



## lordsigma (Nov 5, 2022)

fdaley said:


> There was a piece in the Times Union of Albany awhile back that said the Baker administration, on its way out the door, was applying for federal funding from the infrastructure law to add two more BOS-ALB frequencies each way -- and that the NYS DOT was supporting the application. Definitely having more frequencies, with more reliability, and at least modest improvement in schedule time, would make it a much more useful route to many more people. If there were an eastbound that arrived at BOS about 11 a.m., and another by, say, 4 p.m., and presumably at least one late afternoon departure westbound, I know my family would use it lots more.


In addition to the Boston - Albany frequencies they are looking at reinstating some inland route service New York - Boston via Hartford and Springfield which would involve some additional frequencies on the eastern end of the corridor.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Nov 6, 2022)

Speaking as a honorary Bostonian, sounds like great ideas.


----------



## IndyLions (Dec 31, 2022)

It's a New Year's Eve Miracle on the Lake Shore Limited!

I just boarded with my wife and daughter in 4912. Karen is our SCA.

She gave us a quick tour of the VLII. As we rounded the corner past the bedrooms and towards our roomettes - she said "here is the drink station, with water, coffee, ice."

What - ICE! In the actual VLII Ice Dispenser! You've gotta be kidding me! In 6 or 8 trips this is the first time I've EVER seen a SCA take the time to actually fill it with ice. Wow!

After I expressed my surprise and pleasure at this monumental event - Karen commented "yeah, a lot of the other attendants don't bother to use all the accessories, but I always do…"




Then I thought - Wait! could this mean she actually set up the shower using the towel rack????!!!!!!!!

Take a look!


----------



## Willbridge (Dec 31, 2022)

IndyLions said:


> It's a New Year's Eve Miracle on the Lake Shore Limited!
> 
> I just boarded with my wife and daughter in 4912. Karen is our SCA.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the good news to close out the year!


----------



## IndyLions (Jan 1, 2023)

FWIW on the LSL 49(12/31) - 4911 was a VLI & 4912 was a VLII.

The SCA (Karen) on 4912 and Tim in the Diner were very, very good. Tim was a relatively new hire, not sure about Karen. 

For dinner in the VLII Diner out of Albany, Karen took orders and delivered food. Tim prepared the food. Karen insisted on clearing the tables when we were done. 

For breakfast on 1/1, Tim handled it solo - taking orders, delivering food and drinks and clearing afterwards.

All in all, a very good trip. Only slight negative was the heat in the roomettes was cranked too high.


----------



## joelkfla (Jan 1, 2023)

IndyLions said:


> All in all, a very good trip. Only slight negative was the heat in the roomettes was cranked too high.


Did you try adjusting the thermostat?


----------



## IndyLions (Jan 1, 2023)

joelkfla said:


> Did you try adjusting the thermostat?


Yes - the thermostat was set to 41F...


----------



## mediaman (Jan 1, 2023)

Thanks for sharing this information. Congratulations to Karen for a job well done. It really is just about those little things that make a great impression and enjoyable trip.


----------



## Shanson (Jan 1, 2023)

And here's a way to let management know that she did a good job:









E-mail Us | Amtrak







www.amtrak.com


----------



## Rasputin (Jan 2, 2023)

I understand that 49/449 (1) arriving in Chicago today (Jan. 2) had no Boston sleeper. I don't know if it started out with one and it went missing en route or if it failed to appear at the departure of 449 at South Station yesterday.


----------



## lordsigma (Jan 2, 2023)

IndyLions said:


> FWIW on the LSL 49(12/31) - 4911 was a VLI & 4912 was a VLII.
> 
> The SCA (Karen) on 4912 and Tim in the Diner were very, very good. Tim was a relatively new hire, not sure about Karen.
> 
> ...



I have to add my experience that the lake shore has some great OBS staff in the sleepers/sleeper diner. While it is flexible dining the attendants make the most of it and try to provide good and friendly service.


----------



## capltd29 (Jan 3, 2023)

Rasputin said:


> I understand that 49/449 (1) arriving in Chicago today (Jan. 2) had no Boston sleeper. I don't know if it started out with one and it went missing en route or if it failed to appear at the departure of 449 at South Station yesterday.


Is this the only set missing a sleeper? I am supposed to leave Boston on 1/6 on 449 and I am trying to decide if I want to just leave from NYP and get a sleeper reservation while they still have them rather than take the chance at being in coach or being cancelled outright due to lack of space. If my calculations are right then the train of 1/6 would have arrived BOS yesterday and go out again today.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Jan 3, 2023)

capltd29 said:


> Is this the only set missing a sleeper? I am supposed to leave Boston on 1/6 on 449 and I am trying to decide if I want to just leave from NYP and get a sleeper reservation while they still have them rather than take the chance at being in coach or being cancelled outright due to lack of space. If my calculations are right then the train of 1/6 would have arrived BOS yesterday and go out again today.


You could book the sleeper ALB - CHI and ride coach BOS - ALB which would not be terrible, the only thing you miss is the "free" lunch from the cafe.


----------



## John Bredin (Jan 3, 2023)

This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.

Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?

The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the _baggage_, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.


----------



## rs9 (Jan 3, 2023)

John Bredin said:


> This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.
> 
> Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?
> 
> The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the _baggage_, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.


I was on the train you are referencing and was in the coach car directly in front of the diner. There was very little forward-backward foot traffic through my car, so it seems unlikely anyone was coming forward through the diner. The diner had the usual "Do not enter" sign posted on the galley entry door.


----------



## OBS (Jan 3, 2023)

John Bredin said:


> This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.
> 
> Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?
> 
> The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the _baggage_, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.


This may actually be the post holiday winter consist. Today's 49 just went thru Poughkeepsie with just 2 coaches. I assume the two on the rear were DH for whatever reason...


----------



## joelkfla (Jan 3, 2023)

John Bredin said:


> This morning's 49 had the Boston sleeper, but an odd situation with the coaches. (Seen at Elkhart so combined 49/449.) Following the Boston sleeper and cafe were only three coaches. Then following the diner, two NY sleepers, and baggage were two coaches.
> 
> Does anyone know if those were NY coaches, or deadheads on a train that happened to also be two coaches short (usually five coaches between the cafe and diner)?
> 
> The two rear coaches didn't platform, but they could've had those passengers walk up to a platformed car so that's not dispositive. The odder thing is if they were in-service, passengers in those coaches would have to walk through the _baggage_, sleepers, and diner (and three more coaches) to get to the cafe or a platformed car at shorter-platform stations.


If they were separated from the rest of the train by the baggage car, they were undoubtedly deadheads.


----------



## John Santos (Jan 4, 2023)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> You could book the sleeper ALB - CHI and ride coach BOS - ALB which would not be terrible, the only thing you miss is the "free" lunch from the cafe.


I had to do that once, and they put me in business class between Boston and Albany (both ways) and fed me. (I had a roomette in the New York sleepers between Albany and Chicago.) On the east-bound trip, however, dinner was a salad that was mostly still frozen. Fortunately, I was planning to take the Red Line from BOS to Alewife and meet up with some friends for dinner at Jasper White's Summer Shack (fantastic seafood next door to the Alewife MBTA station) and a ride home, so I didn't really want to eat anyway.


----------



## IndyLions (Jan 4, 2023)

Shanson said:


> And here's a way to let management know that she did a good job:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that - done!


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Jan 4, 2023)

John Santos said:


> I had to do that once, and they put me in business class between Boston and Albany (both ways) and fed me. (I had a roomette in the New York sleepers between Albany and Chicago.) On the east-bound trip, however, dinner was a salad that was mostly still frozen. Fortunately, I was planning to take the Red Line from BOS to Alewife and meet up with some friends for dinner at Jasper White's Summer Shack (fantastic seafood next door to the Alewife MBTA station) and a ride home, so I didn't really want to eat anyway.


Same here. I haven't bothered with the flex dinner on 448. We usually get off in Worcester where our kids pick us up then we go to one of the areas fine restaurants, usually the Bollywood Grill in Shrewsbury our favorite Indian restaurant.


----------



## TimePeace (Tuesday at 3:08 PM)

It doesn't seem that this question has been asked lately:

How has on time performance into Boston been lately (these last few months)? I too have missed the last Concord Coach run back to Maine once or twice over the years.

One time I think I was issued a small refund from customer service - but what I'd prefer would be a hotel room! Tough to sleep anywhere in the train or bus station... especially at age 74!


----------



## jis (Tuesday at 3:21 PM)

Your best bet maybe to try using the following site and see what you can extract from it:






ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Home


ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps History and Archive



juckins.net


----------



## TimePeace (Tuesday at 3:41 PM)

Thanks.


----------



## acelafan (Wednesday at 9:54 AM)

TimePeace said:


> It doesn't seem that this question has been asked lately:
> 
> How has on time performance into Boston been lately (these last few months)? I too have missed the last Concord Coach run back to Maine once or twice over the years.
> 
> One time I think I was issued a small refund from customer service - but what I'd prefer would be a hotel room! Tough to sleep anywhere in the train or bus station... especially at age 74!


448 into BOS:









 ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Create a Chart of Historical Amtrak Train Performance


ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps History and Archive - Create a Custom Chart



juckins.net





Could be worse...


----------



## TimePeace (Wednesday at 10:16 AM)

Yes, it looks pretty good. Thanks for the reply.
D.


----------



## TimePeace (Thursday at 7:12 PM)

OK, I'm getting closer to actually booking a trip Boston to Seattle in Mid-March, with the first leg(s) being the Lake Shore Limited. I have taken this train several times in the past, but not in at least 6 years or more.

If I'm in a sleeper, and If the train is more or less on time, which meals should I expect to have available? I have read here about Flex Dining and sort of know what to expect.

Also, will I be in the roomette all the way, or will I be in Business or Coach for the Boston to Albany section?

If, on the way out, I decide to go Coach to Chicago, will I be able to hang out in the 1st class Lounge in Boston if I have a sleeper ticket from Chicago to Seattle?

Thanks,

David


----------



## fdaley (Thursday at 7:40 PM)

TimePeace said:


> OK, I'm getting closer to actually booking a trip Boston to Seattle in Mid-March, with the first leg(s) being the Lake Shore Limited. I have taken this train several times in the past, but not in at least 6 years or more.
> 
> If I'm in a sleeper, and If the train is more or less on time, which meals should I expect to have available? I have read here about Flex Dining and sort of know what to expect.
> 
> ...


There is a through sleeper car from Boston to Chicago, so you can book a roomette for the whole distance if you like. If you do, the fare includes lunch departing Boston, which will be your choice of items from the regular cafe car menu. West of Albany, where the train picks up its through cars from NYC, sleeper passengers also get flex meals for dinner and for breakfast the next morning on the approach to Chicago. The dinner and breakfast will be available from the "sleeper lounge," the former dining car, which will be adjacent to the New York sleepers -- i.e., at the opposite end of the train from the Boston sleeper.

You might be able to save money by booking a coach seat from Boston to Albany and then a roomette from Albany to Chicago. From Albany west, you can book rooms on either train 449 (the Boston section) or train 49 (the New York section). Because 49 has two sleeper cars and 449 only has one, there sometimes are rooms available at lower rates on 49. If you choose this option, the price only includes dinner and breakfast, and you likely don't get to use the first-class lounge at Boston unless you have some other credential (e.g., guest rewards pass) that allows you in.


----------



## TimePeace (Thursday at 8:00 PM)

fdaley said:


> There is a through sleeper car from Boston to Chicago, so you can book a roomette for the whole distance if you like. If you do, the fare includes lunch departing Boston, which will be your choice of items from the regular cafe car menu. West of Albany, where the train picks up its through cars from NYC, sleeper passengers also get flex meals for dinner and for breakfast the next morning on the approach to Chicago. The dinner and breakfast will be available from the "sleeper lounge," the former dining car, which will be adjacent to the New York sleepers -- i.e., at the opposite end of the train from the Boston sleeper.
> 
> You might be able to save money by booking a coach seat from Boston to Albany and then a roomette from Albany to Chicago. From Albany west, you can book rooms on either train 449 (the Boston section) or train 49 (the New York section). Because 49 has two sleeper cars and 449 only has one, there sometimes are rooms available at lower rates on 49. If you choose this option, the price only includes dinner and breakfast, and you likely don't get to use the first-class lounge at Boston unless you have some other credential (e.g., guest rewards pass) that allows you in.



Thank you!
D.


----------



## zephyr17 (Thursday at 8:11 PM)

You won't be able to hang out in the Metropolitan Lounge if your sleeper is only on the Builder. That's only for same day sleeper travel and your sleeper would be for the following day. If you were coach to Albany and picked up a sleeper there you would, you would have lounge access, since that's the same day.

@fdaley summed up the meal situation well. To continue it, your first meal on the Builder will be dinner, which will be quite good. Flex is on entirely different, and crappy, planet. The current version of traditional dining is an improvement on what it was immediately pre-COVID and the best it's been in years. Breakfast seating on the last day will stop at the west portal of the Cascade Tunnel, as usual, but that is quite a bit later on the current schedule.


----------



## TimePeace (Friday at 10:57 AM)

What's the current (Winter 2023) Consist?


----------



## joelkfla (Friday at 1:04 PM)

TimePeace said:


> What's the current (Winter 2023) Consist?


VL I sleeper
Cafe
Coach
--------------
Coach
Coach
Diner
VL I sleeper
VL II sleeper
Baggage

I think the 1st 3 cars are the ones for Boston.


----------



## zephyr17 (Friday at 2:34 PM)

joelkfla said:


> VL I sleeper
> Cafe
> Coach
> --------------
> ...


They are


----------



## jis (Friday at 4:13 PM)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts about the Boston Lounge and other Lounge usage have been moved to the pre-existing thread on Metropolitan Lounges...






Amtrak Metropolitan Lounges


Is there any other place that would be better-suited for the lounge in LA?




www.amtraktrains.com





Please post matters regarding Lounges to that thread and leave this train for discussing the Lake Shore Limited.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


----------



## B&Ofan (Yesterday at 12:17 PM)

i just returned from a Boston to Toledo trip. We were early into Toledo but leaving we were left about 20 min late though after we started up we still stood in the station for another 20 min (or so) the rest of the trip was uneventful and were only a little late on the return trip. What I have to say is on the return trip I was to change sleepers in Albany (for some reason that was much cheaper, I have seen that before as well). I didn't mind as for much of the trip I don't have to walk through the coaches.

The rebuild of track 3 in Toledo has been complete for a while now though it looks like it was newer used, Amtrak always arrives on track 1. I suspect the rebuild was in anticipation of the expansion of passenger rail in Ohio, though I will believe it when I see it.

What enjoyed was sleeper 4812 was a viewliner II sleeper. It was quite nice. Very comfortable and much more quite then the Viewliner I.

What worries me is I remember on that trip there were as much as 4 NYC and 2 Boston coaches. On the trip there were only 2 NYC and 1 Boston coaches. I am hoping that this is only due to lower demand in the winter, though on my trips this summer it seemed there were still a reduced number coaches though I can't remember how many.


----------

