# VIA Winter service in Western Canada



## v v (Oct 31, 2022)

With luck we'll be in Vancouver around mid February next year, does the weather allow for trains to run regularly at that time?

Looking to spend a couple of days going somewhere and back by train from the city, any suggestions?

Thanks


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## danasgoodstuff (Oct 31, 2022)

Any weather problems would not likely be in Vancouver but somewhere else in the vast expanse of Canada covered by the transcontinental Canadian. It can easily be 40 below on the prairies that time of year and nothing runs right at that temperature. If you're talking about coming to Vancouver from the south on the cascades, weather issues are unlikely but not impossible, the last bit in the States around Bellingham can get snowy and flooding is a potential issue in various places on the route in the winter. But I took the train in and out of Vancouver many times in November, December, and January over the years and you should probably be fine as long as you're not expecting it to necessarily be right on time which is honestly an issue year-round in both countries.


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## fdaley (Oct 31, 2022)

Jasper is a great town in the Rockies, one night each way from Vancouver. But the Canadian only runs twice a week each way, so the timing is tricky. 

If you left Vancouver on a Monday afternoon, you could arrive in Jasper about noontime on Tuesday, then return leaving Jasper either Wednesday morning or Saturday morning. If you left Vancouver on the Friday afternoon departure, you'd arrive in Jasper about noontime on Saturday, but you'd already have missed the Saturday westbound, so you'd have to stay until Wednesday. 

In terms of weather-related delays at that season, the westbound is far more likely than the eastbound to be seriously late. On our last westbound trip, in February 2019, the train arrived in Vancouver 23 hours late, and it had been as much as 30 hours late around Edmonton. However, VIA has added a lot of padding to the schedule since then, and they seem to be having fewer cases of extreme tardiness.


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## Trogdor (Nov 1, 2022)

If you take the Canadian on a short trip, just be prepared for the OTP to be absolutely horrid. When I took the Canadian a couple years ago, we met the westbound in Jasper which was running 19 hours late. This means being prepared not only for a few extra hours, but possibly an extra overnight at your turnaround point. But you won’t know in advance whether you’ll need it or not.


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## pennyk (Nov 1, 2022)

MODERATOR NOTE: several posts were removed as off topic inasmuch as the posts did not discuss travelling on VIA in February to/from Vancouver.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


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## Brian Battuello (Nov 2, 2022)

VIA is fine in February for a long distance trip, but as mentioned I wouldn't plan it as part of any short term sightseeing. There is so much to do in the Vancouver area, I'd just stick around there. Do a full Canadian run sometime when you have a huge amount of flexibility.


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## v v (Nov 2, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> VIA is fine in February for a long distance trip, but as mentioned I wouldn't plan it as part of any short term sightseeing. There is so much to do in the Vancouver area, I'd just stick around there. Do a full Canadian run sometime when you have a huge amount of flexibility.



Thank you Brian. Your ideas look like the way to approach visiting Vancouver especially as VIA run infrequently (in winter?).


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## jis (Nov 2, 2022)

v v said:


> Thank you Brian. Your ideas look like the way to approach visiting Vancouver especially as VIA run infrequently (in winter?).


VIA runs infrequent service to Vancouver BC year round, not just in the winter, only slightly more frequent in the summer than in the winter, but that means just one more day per week of operation in each direction. It is Amtrak that runs regular daily service to Vancouver Pacific Central Station. Not VIA.


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## v v (Nov 2, 2022)

jis said:


> VIA runs infrequent service to Vancouver BC year round, not just in the winter, only slightly more frequent in the summer than in the winter, but that means just one more day per week of operation in each direction. It is Amtrak that runs regular daily service to Vancouver Pacific Central Station. Not VIA.



Right, got that now. Thanks jis


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## zephyr17 (Nov 2, 2022)

v v said:


> Thank you Brian. Your ideas look like the way to approach visiting Vancouver especially as VIA run infrequently (in winter?).


It's twice weekly year round now. They cut back the summer third frequency to Vancouver-Edmonton, not the full run, in 2019. They didn't resume it at all post-COVID.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 14, 2022)

Okay, my turn to ask a VIA rail in February question. In 2008 and again in 2010 I took two very successful trips on the Canadian the entire length from Toronto to Vancouver. At that time (admittedly in a recession) they had really good fares, usually around 1/2 price, on a special Sleeper Plus fare board. Not on all days or all types, but enough to get a decent room. Now my spouse wants to do the trip in February, and the latest version of the sale page doesn't list any arrivals or departures out of Vancouver. Does anyone have any recent experience with midwinter pricing over the entire route? Would be much appreciated. Also just for laughs, do they ever discount the Prestige class? 10 years ago the Prestige car was completely unoccupied in February, so there were no restrictions of any kind. Guess that's not going to be true today.


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## Rasputin (Dec 14, 2022)

My understanding is that Prestige Class is never, ever discounted.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 14, 2022)

Yup. Over $11,000 CAD for two one way. I can buy a heck of a lot of liquor and take it in my room at that rate. FWIW, Bedrooms for two are around $4K and Berths for 2 are around $2.5K.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 14, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Okay, my turn to ask a VIA rail in February question. In 2008 and again in 2010 I took two very successful trips on the Canadian the entire length from Toronto to Vancouver. At that time (admittedly in a recession) they had really good fares, usually around 1/2 price, on a special Sleeper Plus fare board. Not on all days or all types, but enough to get a decent room. Now my spouse wants to do the trip in February, and the latest version of the sale page doesn't list any arrivals or departures out of Vancouver. Does anyone have any recent experience with midwinter pricing over the entire route? Would be much appreciated. Also just for laughs, do they ever discount the Prestige class? 10 years ago the Prestige car was completely unoccupied in February, so there were no restrictions of any kind. Guess that's not going to be true today. 80s


Remember, Ontario charges the Provincial Goods and Services Tax that BC doesn't, so Fares are Higher going West.

The Discount Fares aren't refundable, so if you book one of the "Deals" that shows up on some Trains, be sure that you can actually make the trip.( I'm not current on VIAs Policy regarding Change Fees etc since I haven't ridden the Canadian since Feb of 2019)

Lots of times "Flash Sales" show up on Discounted Fares, but usually with Short notice.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 14, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Okay, my turn to ask a VIA rail in February question. In 2008 and again in 2010 I took two very successful trips on the Canadian the entire length from Toronto to Vancouver. At that time (admittedly in a recession) they had really good fares, usually around 1/2 price, on a special Sleeper Plus fare board. Not on all days or all types, but enough to get a decent room. Now my spouse wants to do the trip in February, and the latest version of the sale page doesn't list any arrivals or departures out of Vancouver. Does anyone have any recent experience with midwinter pricing over the entire route? Would be much appreciated. Also just for laughs, do they ever discount the Prestige class? 10 years ago the Prestige car was completely unoccupied in February, so there were no restrictions of any kind. Guess that's not going to be true today.


1. Prestige is never discounted. They can and will run empty rather than sell space at a discount.
2. The Sleeper Plus sale page is a "distressed inventory" sale. It is only offered between specific points in specific accommodations that haven't sold as expected in the normal "discount" fare class. You cannot make plans based on the assumption that something will turn up on the Sleeper Plus sale page. It rewards (relatively) last minute flexibility to take advantage if a desired trip shows up on it.
3. VIA's off season (winter) fares are about 30% less than high season in both the normal discount and full fare classes.

Note that VIA does not really do yield management, other than offering distressed inventory on the Sleeper Plus sale page and limiting the number of each accommodation offered in the discount fare class. Fares do not vary.

Look at your dates, see what the "discount" fare is, if offered for your desired accommodation. If not offered, look at other dates or consider full fare. VIA pricing is simple and straightforward, you don't have to play the games to get a good fare that you have to with Amtrak.


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## fdaley (Dec 14, 2022)

In recent years VIA has had an annual "Black Friday sale" for several days on either side of U.S. Thanksgiving Day. This year, they offered 25 percent off Sleeper Plus class on the Canadian for departures through mid-April. But you had to buy by Nov. 29. We were looking into a February trip but ultimately decided against it. If I am remembering correctly, two in a bedroom Vancouver-Toronto worked out to less than $3K US at the sale price, and I think two lower berths and an upper worked out to about $2K. 

Last I knew, VIA allowed stopovers, so in past years we were able to pay the through fare from Vancouver to Toronto or vice versa and stop in the Rockies at Jasper for a few days. Of course, there are only two departures per week, so one has to lay over at least three days. And if you're traveling at the sale price and stopping over somewhere, the discounted space has to available on both trains. Still, it's a nice contrast to Amtrak, where breaking a cross-country sleeper trip at Glenwood Springs, for example, adds significantly to the overall cost.


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 21, 2022)

I mean I think a ride on VIA is definitely worth doing. Last June I flew to Vancouver and then flew up to Prince Rupert to take that train to Jasper, before taking a bus tour to Calgary. To keep this on topic might I suggest taking the Canadian to Jasper and taking the bus I took to Banff and Calgary. Then you could always fly back to Vancouver, or elsewhere. When are you going I can make myself available for a day or two.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 27, 2022)

Thanks again for the VIA feedback. I just rechecked and they are opening up Cabin for Two's in January on the super-discount page at $1100 CAD per person, which is a nice savings from the Cabin for Two-Discount fare of $2000 on the main webpage.

That's about double what I paid in 2008, but that was then 14 years ago and in a recession. Now I just have to get my spouse to commit. I wonder if the train will be so empty that they will take away the "Prestige Only" sign on the railfan dome seats...


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## zephyr17 (Dec 27, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> . I wonder if the train will be so empty that they will take away the "Prestige Only" sign on the railfan dome seats...


If there are any Prestige passengers at all, at the very least the first row will be reserved for Prestige.

On my recent trip in early November, the Prestige passengers were not making that much use of the Park's dome. The staff knocked down the Prestige rows from 3 to 2 once that became apparent.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 2, 2023)

sleeper passengers can use the economy dome in front of train as well, correct? im thinking of booking a ride in a few weeks, traveling sleeper class, but not prestige, and like sitting in front row of dome so can look out above the top of the train. hoping i can at least use any seats avail in first row in the economy dome. if anyone knows if ill be able to do that id appreciate you letting me know. thanks.

PS also if nobody in the dome, say like 3 am or something, will staff mind if non prestige passengers sit in the front row of the sleeper domes?


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## joelkfla (Jan 2, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> sleeper passengers can use the economy dome in front of train as well, correct? im thinking of booking a ride in a few weeks, traveling sleeper class, but not prestige, and like sitting in front row of dome so can look out above the top of the train. hoping i can at least use any seats avail in first row in the economy dome. if anyone knows if ill be able to do that id appreciate you letting me know. thanks.


It was that way when I rode a few years ago; in fact, our Artist On Board did some shows in the Park Car just for sleeper passengers, and some in the Economy dome that were open to everyone. 

But just this week I watched a YouTube of a trip on the Canadian. When the protagonist tried to get to the cafe car, he came upon a sign on the door of the last coach car:

There used to be a sign saying "Sleeper Plus passengers only" when heading the other way, but not heading into Economy. I don't think he actually tried the door to see if it was locked.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 2, 2023)

wow, thanks for posting that video, so apparently sleeper passengers cant access the economy dome or anywhere past that sign .


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## zephyr17 (Jan 2, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> sleeper passengers can use the economy dome in front of train as well, correct? im thinking of booking a ride in a few weeks, traveling sleeper class, but not prestige, and like sitting in front row of dome so can look out above the top of the train. hoping i can at least use any seats avail in first row in the economy dome. if anyone knows if ill be able to do that id appreciate you letting me know. thanks.
> 
> PS also if nobody in the dome, say like 3 am or something, will staff mind if non prestige passengers sit in the front row of the sleeper domes?


I do not think you'd be welcome in the economy dome, sign or no sign. I know when the SM escorted me up to baggage car once, I definitely got thr stink eye passing through economy. BTW, they tend to leave the overhead lights on in the economy dome 24/7.

Sleeper Plus had its own Skyline dome between the last sleeper and the diner anyway. You can sit in front of that one all you like. Note the front row are tables in Skylines. During the off season, it likely won't be staffed. The only bar service is in the Park during most of the off season.

During the off season, I've never had anyone bother me or anyone else in the Prestige rows of the Park dome at night. Few people use it at night, although it is my favorite time for dome rides and frequently I've been the sole occupant of the dome. I've even had the attendant bring up drinks I ordered sitting in a Prestige row and he didn't say a word (and he knew I was Sleeper Plus). I do absolutely respect the Prestige row restrictions during the day, though.

At 3 am, pretty much no one will be on duty in the middle of the night except the Assistant Service Manager. The attendant will go off duty between 10:30 and 11:00. You are still permitted to roam the train 24 hours a day. Most of my night Park dome rides have been like 8:00-11:00.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 3, 2023)

thank you for the thorough info/reply. When i last rode the Canadian about 10 years ago, i rode economy and i recall sleeper passengers coming into the economy dome to sit as they said it had a better view (behind the engines). Since then id heard maybe sleeper passengers not allowed in the economy dome but than others ive talked to said they havent heard of such a thing. Your comment plus "camping with steve"'s video confirms though that at least sometimes sleeper passengers arent allowed in economy. Im guess they want to make sure theres enough seats in the economy dome for economy passengers? I know on Amtrak sleeper passengers can walk through the whole train. 

Its not a huge deal as long as it sounds like there should be two domes i can access (a skyline dome for sleeper passengers plus the park car) and sounds like the skyline dome for sleeper passengers is first come first served. Im thinking of riding in February, maybe the train will be slow then anyway? 

On another topic, when eating in the diner, do they seat you with others at the same table like Amtrak does or does each group (im solo) have their own table?


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## zephyr17 (Jan 3, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> thank you for the thorough info/reply. When i last rode the Canadian about 10 years ago, i rode economy and i recall sleeper passengers coming into the economy dome to sit as they said it had a better view (behind the engines). Since then id heard maybe sleeper passengers not allowed in the economy dome but than others ive talked to said they havent heard of such a thing. Your comment plus "camping with steve"'s video confirms though that at least sometimes sleeper passengers arent allowed in economy. Im guess they want to make sure theres enough seats in the economy dome for economy passengers? I know on Amtrak sleeper passengers can walk through the whole train.
> 
> Its not a huge deal as long as it sounds like there should be two domes i can access (a skyline dome for sleeper passengers plus the park car) and sounds like the skyline dome for sleeper passengers is first come first served. Im thinking of riding in February, maybe the train will be slow then anyway?
> 
> On another topic, when eating in the diner, do they seat you with others at the same table like Amtrak does or does each group (im solo) have their own table?


VIA practices community seating in the diner and dome seats are first come, first serve, except the Prestige rows in the Park. I have never had an issue getting a dome seat and they've seldom been full on my November trips.


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## Brian Battuello (Jan 3, 2023)

My Canadian info is almost 10 years old, but perhaps they put up the sign when there is a separate Skyline car for sleepers, when the Park Car is totally reserved for Prestige during the day. I'm thinking of travelling in late January. I'm expecting/hoping that there won't be any Park car restricted times, and if by some chance there are no Prestige customers, they won't bother with the seating limitations. 

I'm all in favor of Prestige and VIA making more money to keep things going, but when you can buy a perfectly good cabin for two with ensuite toilet for $1k per person, hard to imagine paying $5k per person for a nicer bed, view, and free drinks. 

In the summer it's another story. Plenty of wealthy tourists that don't mind spending the big bucks. Cruise ships have special areas for people with too much money .


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## zephyr17 (Jan 3, 2023)

Brian Battuello said:


> My Canadian info is almost 10 years old, but perhaps they put up the sign when there is a separate Skyline car for sleepers, when the Park Car is totally reserved for Prestige during the day. I'm thinking of travelling in late January. I'm expecting/hoping that there won't be any Park car restricted times, and if by some chance there are no Prestige customers, they won't bother with the seating limitations.
> 
> I'm all in favor of Prestige and VIA making more money to keep things going, but when you can buy a perfectly good cabin for two with ensuite toilet for $1k per person, hard to imagine paying $5k per person for a nicer bed, view, and free drinks.
> 
> In the summer it's another story. Plenty of wealthy tourists that don't mind spending the big bucks. Cruise ships have special areas for people with too much money .


As I said before, if they have even one Prestige passenger, at the very least the first row will be reserved in the Park's dome.

There will not be any hour restrictions in January. Those should not kick in until April 15th. They really can't restrict it anyway, because the Sleeper Plus Skyline almost certainly will not be staffed, so the only bar service will be in the Park.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 3, 2023)

thank you for the info. Im fine with everything--dome seat im not worried about getting one, just hoping to snag one in the first row. Looks like the one sleeper skyline will be my one opportunity, unless its 3 am in prestige dome lol. Im hoping to travel in Feb--i dont think is exactly peak season.


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## Brian Battuello (Jan 3, 2023)

Does anyone know for sure that they are running a third dome car in January/February? When I went in February 2008 it was just the Park car and the coach Skyline. Always nice to have more domes. We only had about 40 people on the whole train, and none were Prestige. 

Also any updates on the protect car behind the Park car? Not a show stopper, but a mild annoyance. 

Is there anyone out there that could railcam a very recent Canadian consist, such as post Jan 1?


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## Brian Battuello (Jan 3, 2023)

I would be happy to keep this conversation here, but also noticed an old thread at 






The Canadian Consists


Prior to the Budd equipment being HEPed in the late ‘80s, the cars were heated by steam, piped through the cars from boilers located in the diesels and were more susceptible to freeze-ups then, from the steam condensate. How well I remember those "bad-old-day's"......sometimes the SFZ would come...




www.amtraktrains.com





Hasn't been updated in many years, but has some nice historical info.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 3, 2023)

joelkfla said:


> It was that way when I rode a few years ago; in fact, our Artist On Board did some shows in the Park Car just for sleeper passengers, and some in the Economy dome that were open to everyone.
> 
> But just this week I watched a YouTube of a trip on the Canadian. When the protagonist tried to get to the cafe car, he came upon a sign on the door of the last coach car:
> View attachment 30955
> There used to be a sign saying "Sleeper Plus passengers only" when heading the other way, but not heading into Economy. I don't think he actually tried the door to see if it was locked.



sign was up in 2019 when this article was posted, the author says she "just walked through" and "nobody checking". 

I spent 4 days on the longest train ride in North America, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the entire 96-hour trip again


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## MontanaJim (Jan 3, 2023)

Brian Battuello said:


> Does anyone know for sure that they are running a third dome car in January/February? When I went in February 2008 it was just the Park car and the coach Skyline. Always nice to have more domes. We only had about 40 people on the whole train, and none were Prestige.
> 
> Also any updates on the protect car behind the Park car? Not a show stopper, but a mild annoyance.
> 
> Is there anyone out there that could railcam a very recent Canadian consist, such as post Jan 1?


if they do only run 2 domes hopefully sleeper passengers can use the second dome....otherwise have to stick to park car..where prestige passengers may get first rows...


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## zephyr17 (Jan 3, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> Looks like the one sleeper skyline will be my one opportunity, unless its 3 am in prestige dome lol.


More like after dinner in my experience.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 3, 2023)

Brian Battuello said:


> Does anyone know for sure that they are running a third dome car in January/February? When I went in February 2008 it was just the Park car and the coach Skyline. Always nice to have more domes. We only had about 40 people on the whole train, and none were Prestige.
> 
> Also any updates on the protect car behind the Park car? Not a show stopper, but a mild annoyance.
> 
> Is there anyone out there that could railcam a very recent Canadian consist, such as post Jan 1?


The "buffer" car (AKA "bumper car") will be on it for the immediate future. They have to do the extensive testing they are planning on the suspected center sill problem that caused the introduction of the buffer cars as an interim measure. That includes a compression test that will probably destroy one car. Then they'll decide if the center sill situation needs remediation based on that and other testing and extensive inspections. If it needs to be, and can be, remediated, then the buffer cars can be removed from consists as completely remediated consists come online.

Best case is they decide the cars are fine after testing and inspections and drop the buffer cars. That would probably not be before summer at the earliest.

If there is problem that can be remediated, it'll probably take a couple years, assuming they get funding.

If there is a problem and it cannot be remediated, the buffer cars will remain permanently. And the final countdown clock on retiring the Budd fleet starts.

Since they tore the Chateaus and Parks they converted to Prestige pretty much down to bare metal, I find some reason for optimism that if there was a problem, they would not have sunk tens of millions into Prestige conversions.

Their standard practice since Prestige was introduced is to run a Skyline for Sleeper Plus all year round. It likely will not be staffed, though. Before Prestige was introduced, the Park alone did fine for Silver And Blue/Sleeper Plus in the off season and a third off season dome was unnecessary.


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## Urban Sky (Jan 4, 2023)

Except for exceptional circumstances, there always is a Skyline car next to each diner, i.e. in addition to the Skyline car reserved for Economy Class passengers and the Park car shared with Prestige Class passengers…


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## fdaley (Jan 4, 2023)

When we last rode, in February 2019 as Sleeper Plus passengers, there were indeed three domes -- one for Economy Class near the front of the train, one between the Sleeper Plus sleepers and the diner, and the Park car at the rear (which exactly fits the arrangement Urban Sky describes). There were no restrictions on access to the Park car other than the first couple of rows in the dome being reserved for Prestige passengers.

In other winter trips earlier in the decade, we had only two domes -- the Park car plus one next to the coaches, and I remember spending some time in the forward dome and talking with the mostly younger people who were traveling in coach. But by 2019, the sleeper passengers were strongly discouraged from going up to the coach-class dome, which didn't particularly matter because we had access to two of our own, although for photography that forward dome does give a quite different perspective.


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## Rasputin (Jan 4, 2023)

fdaley said:


> But by 2019, the sleeper passengers were strongly discouraged from going up to the coach-class dome,


My information is all second-hand so corrections would be welcome but I understand that there have been some disruptive behavior issues in the economy section of the Canadian in recent years (such as the arrest of some economy class passengers for human trafficking in the economy coach as reported by Fred Frailey in one of his columns a few years ago) and as a result, VIA has sought to restrict sleeping car passengers from going to the coach section. Previously coach passengers were prohibited from going to the sleeping car section but sleeping car passengers were not prohibited from going to the coach section.


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## fdaley (Jan 4, 2023)

Rasputin said:


> My information is all second-hand so corrections would be welcome but I understand that there have been some disruptive behavior issues in the economy section of the Canadian in recent years (such as the arrest of some economy class passengers for human trafficking in the economy coach as reported by Fred Frailey in one of his columns a few years ago) and as a result, VIA has sought to restrict sleeping car passengers from going to the coach section. Previously coach passengers were prohibited from going to the sleeping car section but sleeping car passengers were not prohibited from going to the coach section.


Yeah, on our last westbound trip in 2019, the police met the train in Capreol to remove someone from the coach car, though a crew member told me it was more of a mental health issue (or perhaps substance abuse) rather than something criminal. On our 2017 trip, when I spent a fair amount of time in the economy dome, most of the coach travelers I met were just 20-somethings whose budgets couldn't easily cover sleeper travel, but it was definitely a crowd with different boundaries from the folks I met in the Park car.


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## CaptPete 43 (Jan 4, 2023)

When I rode this, the diesel blew uncombusted fuel onto the vista dome making it unsuitable for its intent. On a stop, washing it with water did not not work, only making it different, not better. Hopefully this is not currently happening.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 4, 2023)

CaptPete 43 said:


> When I rode this, the diesel blew uncombusted fuel onto the vista dome making it unsuitable for its intent. On a stop, washing it with water did not not work, only making it different, not better. Hopefully this is not currently happening.


When I last rode it, someone took a shot at the Park before Melville. Hopefully that won't happen again, either.


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## MontanaJim (Jan 4, 2023)

thanks everyone for the info, this is an engaging discussion. Ive booked a lower berth for a Feb trip Vancouver-Toronto and hope everything works out. My ticket says im in car 210, unit 02L. Does anyone know if thats a good berth? Not sure if accurate or not but i saw one diagram of a sleeping car online, appears my berth might between the restroom and shower? Should i try switching to another lower berth? (if switching is even possible). ill be spending most of my time in the domes and dining car when not sleeping, but hoping i can get a good sleep when i am sleeping!


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## zephyr17 (Jan 4, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> thanks everyone for the info, this is an engaging discussion. Ive booked a lower berth for a Feb trip Vancouver-Toronto and hope everything works out. My ticket says im in car 210, unit 02L. Does anyone know if thats a good berth? Not sure if accurate or not but i saw one diagram of a sleeping car online, appears my berth might between the restroom and shower? Should i try switching to another lower berth? (if switching is even possible). ill be spending most of my time in the domes and dining car when not sleeping, but hoping i can get a good sleep when i am sleeping!


_All_ sections are between the restroom and the shower. The real question is whether or not it is across the aisle from the blank wall of the shower room or across from another section and a window. I don't think it across from the shower, I don't pay much attention to open section accommodation numbers, but I think sections 1 & 2 are across from each other and 3 (or 4) is across from the shower.

There isn't that much traffic late at night, the private room accommodations all have their own facilities (although some roomette passengers may decide to use the restroom on the berth end rather than partly lift the bed). The berth passengers, up to six, will be the only ones passing you to use the shower, the other up to 16 passengers in the private accommodations don't have to pass by the sections to reach the shower.


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## fdaley (Jan 5, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> thanks everyone for the info, this is an engaging discussion. Ive booked a lower berth for a Feb trip Vancouver-Toronto and hope everything works out. My ticket says im in car 210, unit 02L. Does anyone know if thats a good berth? Not sure if accurate or not but i saw one diagram of a sleeping car online, appears my berth might between the restroom and shower? Should i try switching to another lower berth? (if switching is even possible). ill be spending most of my time in the domes and dining car when not sleeping, but hoping i can get a good sleep when i am sleeping!


Section 2 should be on the left-hand side of the train, the only section on that side, opposite Section 1. So by day, you should be able to see out both sides, though as you say, you'll probably want to spend your time in the domes, diner or observation lounge. And yes, Section 2 is between the men's bathroom and the shower on the left-hand side.

Section 3 is on the right-hand side, opposite the shower, so there's no left-hand window opposite it. The showers were added to those cars in the early '90s in the space where Section 4 used to be.

I have had that exact space on a few trips and enjoyed it thoroughly. The VIA mattresses are wonderfully thick, and the duvets are warm. And for a train bed, the old Pullman berth always seems amazingly wide.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 5, 2023)

fdaley said:


> Section 2 should be on the left-hand side of the train, the only section on that side, opposite Section 1. So by day, you should be able to see out both sides, though as you say, you'll probably want to spend your time in the domes, diner or observation lounge. And yes, Section 2 is between the men's bathroom and the shower on the left-hand side.
> 
> Section 3 is on the right-hand side, opposite the shower, so there's no left-hand window opposite it. The showers were added to those cars in the early '90s in the space where Section 4 used to be.
> 
> I have had that exact space on a few trips and enjoyed it thoroughly. The VIA mattresses are wonderfully thick, and the duvets are warm. And for a train bed, the old Pullman berth always seems amazingly wide.


My experiences on the Canadian were exactly the same, most comfortable bed I've ever slept in on a Train in over 75 years of riding!( I've not been in the Prestige Sleeper or on The Rocky Mountaineer)


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## Brian Battuello (Jan 5, 2023)

You'll sleep very well on the Rocky Mountaineer because all their overnights are in nice hotels


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## MontanaJim (Jan 5, 2023)

fdaley said:


> Section 2 should be on the left-hand side of the train, the only section on that side, opposite Section 1. So by day, you should be able to see out both sides, though as you say, you'll probably want to spend your time in the domes, diner or observation lounge. And yes, Section 2 is between the men's bathroom and the shower on the left-hand side.
> 
> Section 3 is on the right-hand side, opposite the shower, so there's no left-hand window opposite it. The showers were added to those cars in the early '90s in the space where Section 4 used to be.
> 
> I have had that exact space on a few trips and enjoyed it thoroughly. The VIA mattresses are wonderfully thick, and the duvets are warm. And for a train bed, the old Pullman berth always seems amazingly wide.


thank you--my comment/question about lower berth 2 being between the toilet and shower was meaning RIGHT between the two, as on same side. Ive often ridden coach on Amtrak and economy on the Canadian before, so simply having a sleeping berth (i have been in a roomette on Amtrak a few times) and meals (ive heard meals on the Canadian are so much better than on Amtrak) should make me feel spoiled. I was however just wondering if being by the restroom and showers if id hear people using those but sounds like at night not much traffic. I plan on spending 99 percent of my time when not sleeping by being in the dome, diner, or park car anyway.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 5, 2023)

MontanaJim said:


> thank you--my comment/question about lower berth 2 being between the toilet and shower was meaning RIGHT between the two, as on same side. Ive often ridden coach on Amtrak and economy on the Canadian before, so simply having a sleeping berth (i have been in a roomette on Amtrak a few times) and meals (ive heard meals on the Canadian are so much better than on Amtrak) should make me feel spoiled. I was however just wondering if being by the restroom and showers if id hear people using those but sounds like at night not much traffic. I plan on spending 99 percent of my time when not sleeping by being in the dome, diner, or park car anyway.


Well, there are restrooms on both sides, so sections 1 and 2 both are next to restrooms. There should not be much traffic at night, but the shower can get a lot of use early in the morning, I have no idea how noisy it is in the adjoining section. Of course, the restrooms will be busy with your fellow 5 berth passengers in the car in the am, too.

I thought you were worried about aisle traffic, as I can see that could be very disturbing to those sleeping in sections.

Not only are the meals better, but any VIA bed is vastly more comfortable than an Amtrak roomette. Open section berths are reputed to be the most comfortable of them all (I cannot venture an opinion, I always have a roomette on VIA, and those beds are much more comfortable than Amtrak's).


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## fdaley (Friday at 7:46 PM)

MontanaJim said:


> thank you--my comment/question about lower berth 2 being between the toilet and shower was meaning RIGHT between the two, as on same side. Ive often ridden coach on Amtrak and economy on the Canadian before, so simply having a sleeping berth (i have been in a roomette on Amtrak a few times) and meals (ive heard meals on the Canadian are so much better than on Amtrak) should make me feel spoiled. I was however just wondering if being by the restroom and showers if id hear people using those but sounds like at night not much traffic. I plan on spending 99 percent of my time when not sleeping by being in the dome, diner, or park car anyway.


The shower door is around the bend in the corridor, so I don't recall even being aware of whether the shower was in use when I was in Lower 2. And the restrooms are really mainly for the people in the three sections (a maximum of six people) in your car, and often at least some of those spaces are empty, so it's not as though people are standing in the aisle waiting for their turn. The occasional person passing from car to car might duck into one of those restrooms, but figure that all of the roomette and bedroom passengers have their own facilities in their rooms. 

The major issue with the sections is just that you have only a heavy curtain between your space and the corridor, and there are ladders to the upper berths that take up some space in the aisle. So if there are a lot of people going back and forth through the train, you hear them passing and perhaps bumping into the ladders as they go by. In my experience the aisle traffic was pretty low throughout the night, but it picks up in the morning as people head to breakfast. And there can be a lot of commotion if you come into a major station late at night, such as Winnipeg, which often winds up being a middle-of-the-night stop on the eastbound run. For me, after a day of riding in the domes followed by a good dinner with a glass of wine or a nightcap in the Park car, I was able to tune out most of the aisle traffic.


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## joelkfla (Saturday at 12:56 AM)

fdaley said:


> The occasional person passing from car to car might duck into one of those restrooms, but figure that all of the roomette and bedroom passengers have their own facilities in their rooms.


Yeah, but I thought the roomette toilets are not accessible when the bed is down.


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## OBS (Saturday at 6:55 AM)

joelkfla said:


> Yeah, but I thought the roomette toilets are not accessible when the bed is down.


Yes, but the roomette is designed to be able to get out of bed and pop the bed up without leaving the room due to the privacy curtain all roomettes have.


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## Rasputin (Saturday at 10:06 AM)

OBS said:


> Yes, but the roomette is designed to be able to get out of bed and pop the bed up without leaving the room due to the privacy curtain all roomettes have.


Don't the roomettes have solid doors and not just curtains?


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## jis (Saturday at 10:08 AM)

Rasputin said:


> Don't the roomettes have solid doors and not just curtains?


At least the ones I have traveled in had sliding doors, and it was still possible to pop the bed up without opening the door. It is possible that people of significantly larger girth than me might require to open the door, but their hind end would still be hidden by the curtain outside the door I suppose.


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## OBS (Saturday at 10:09 AM)

Rasputin said:


> Don't the roomettes have solid doors and not just curtains?


Yes. The curtain is outside the solid door so allows you to step out of room without being seen, other than your feet.


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## fdaley (Saturday at 11:36 AM)

joelkfla said:


> Yeah, but I thought the roomette toilets are not accessible when the bed is down.


Yes, in the traditional roomettes, if one needs the facilities in the middle of the night, the choice is to fold up the bed or put on one's slippers and shuffle out to find a restroom elsewhere. But in the VIA sleepers, the section restrooms are all the way at the other end of the car -- or out through the cold, snowy vestibule to the next car. So the nuisance of folding up the bed might seem less than the alternatives, depending on how good one's slippers are.


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## Bob Dylan (Saturday at 12:15 PM)

zephyr17 said:


> Well, there are restrooms on both sides, so sections 1 and 2 both are next to restrooms. There should not be much traffic at night, but the shower can get a lot of use early in the morning, I have no idea how noisy it is in the adjoining section. Of course, the restrooms will be busy with your fellow 5 berth passengers in the car in the am, too.
> 
> I thought you were worried about aisle traffic, as I can see that could be very disturbing to those sleeping in sections.
> 
> Not only are the meals better, but any VIA bed is vastly more comfortable than an Amtrak roomette. Open section berths are reputed to be the most comfortable of them all (I cannot venture an opinion, I always have a roomette on VIA, and those beds are much more comfortable than Amtrak's).


I've ridden in Lower Berths twice on the Canadian, and have not been bothered by noise @ night as the heavy curtains do a better job of isolating the space than Amtraks Doors and Walls do in the Sleepers.

Also there's no Light showing through the curtain unlike the Mesh Curtains Amtrak has on the Roomettes.

The biggest problem I've found with Section berths is the lack of Luggage Space since any carryons have to be kept in your Section( you can hang clothing on the wall on a space available basisby the Shower and Restrooms).

When it comes to the Shower, we had the drain Freeze closed on one trip,( -30) but it was Fixed during the Winipeg stop, so we were without a Shower for only one night.

Of course, Upper Berths have no Window, just like Superliner Uppers, so the Lower Berths are the way to go if traveling in a Section.


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## railiner (Saturday at 12:54 PM)

fdaley said:


> Yes, in the traditional roomettes, if one needs the facilities in the middle of the night, the choice is to fold up the bed or put on one's slippers and shuffle out to find a restroom elsewhere. But in the VIA sleepers, the section restrooms are all the way at the other end of the car -- or out through the cold, snowy vestibule to the next car. So the nuisance of folding up the bed might seem less than the alternatives, depending on how good one's slippers are.


There’s where the cheaper Slumbercoaches had the advantage…Their narrower beds allowed one to use the toilet at night, without the need to raise the bed. For those who needed to use them frequently for whatever reason, it was a great convenience…


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## railiner (Saturday at 1:02 PM)

MontanaJim said:


> Your comment plus "camping with steve"'s video confirms though that at least sometimes sleeper passengers arent allowed in economy. Im guess they want to make sure theres enough seats in the economy dome for economy passengers? I know on Amtrak sleeper passengers can walk through the whole train.


On Amtrak, they may be allowed to walk the whole train, but are not allowed to occupy coach seats (which they might wish to, since they are more comfortable for daytime travel).


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## zephyr17 (Saturday at 1:17 PM)

fdaley said:


> So the nuisance of folding up the bed might seem less than the alternatives, depending on how good one's slippers are.


I've done both and pretty much settled on lifting the bed. I stopped putting it up all the way into the wall, I just release it and just put it up to its balance point, which is like a 60° or 70° angle. That's easy and quick.

I'd also just walk to the other end of the car barefoot.


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## joelkfla (Saturday at 1:28 PM)

Bob Dylan said:


> Of course, Upper Berths have no Window, just like Superliner Uppers, so the Lower Berths are the way to go if traveling in a Section.


And you pay about $100 more for a lower.

But just a reminder: at least for the winter months, you can book berths on the Canadian 1 to 2 months out at roughly half price at Sleeper Plus class deals. Reservations at those rates are non-refundable, unmodifiable, and not subject to any further discounts.

At this moment, lower berths are available on that page on the full route of every Canadian thru 2/19/23, and upper berths thru 3/1/23. I suspect lower berths may be added for after 2/19 as time progresses.

I don't know how good availability is during the summer months.


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## MontanaJim (Sunday at 4:20 PM)

referring to previous post regarding sleeper passengers not being allowed to sit in coach--well of course, i wouldnt expect to be able to take up a coach seat. i was just referring to simply walk. Only reason i want to go into economy would be to use the dome there occasionally. However, as long as i can secure a front row seat in any skyline dome avail for sleeper passengers, it wont be a huge deal for me.



joelkfla said:


> And you pay about $100 more for a lower.
> 
> But just a reminder: at least for the winter months, you can book berths on the Canadian 1 to 2 months out at roughly half price at Sleeper Plus class deals. Reservations at those rates are non-refundable, unmodifiable, and not subject to any further discounts.
> 
> ...


to me, its worth 100 extra to have a window to look out at at night. Plus i believe can feel Claustrophic in the upper, plus you have to deal with climbing up and down.


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## MontanaJim (Sunday at 5:50 PM)

fdaley said:


> The shower door is around the bend in the corridor, so I don't recall even being aware of whether the shower was in use when I was in Lower 2. And the restrooms are really mainly for the people in the three sections (a maximum of six people) in your car, and often at least some of those spaces are empty, so it's not as though people are standing in the aisle waiting for their turn. The occasional person passing from car to car might duck into one of those restrooms, but figure that all of the roomette and bedroom passengers have their own facilities in their rooms.
> 
> The major issue with the sections is just that you have only a heavy curtain between your space and the corridor, and there are ladders to the upper berths that take up some space in the aisle. So if there are a lot of people going back and forth through the train, you hear them passing and perhaps bumping into the ladders as they go by. In my experience the aisle traffic was pretty low throughout the night, but it picks up in the morning as people head to breakfast. And there can be a lot of commotion if you come into a major station late at night, such as Winnipeg, which often winds up being a middle-of-the-night stop on the eastbound run. For me, after a day of riding in the domes followed by a good dinner with a glass of wine or a nightcap in the Park car, I was able to tune out most of the aisle traffic.


thanks for the info. Ive ridden coach/economy whatever you call it a lot in many places in the US and the world, so ive dealt with noise, just hoping it will be somewhat quiet on my Canadian trip next month and sounds like i shouldnt have any probs. Im looking forward to simply having a bed and meals (last time i rode the Canadian i went economy from toronto to vancouver!). re the late night stop at winnipeg, if on time i may stay up for that and not go to bed until afterwards. Then hopefully be up for sioux lookout. Is there anything to do in Winnipeg at that late hour (station inside or outside). 

btw i was using the diagram of the sleeper on this website--it appeared shower was right next to where my berth will be but maybe more room there than i thought: VIA Rail's Canadian | The train from Toronto to Vancouver


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## zephyr17 (Monday at 1:52 AM)

MontanaJim said:


> btw i was using the diagram of the sleeper on this website--it appeared shower was right next to where my berth will be but maybe more room there than i thought: VIA Rail's Canadian | The train from Toronto to Vancouver


The diagram is accurate and pretty much to scale. The shower is on the other side of the bulkhead right behind your head when the berth is down. The door to the shower room is on the opposite side from section 2, facing down the aisle towards the bedrooms.

As to the impact on you of it being immediately on the other side of the bulkhead, I'd go with @fdaley's experience. He's traveled in that accommodation, I haven't. I am usually in roomette 3 or 4 and can tell you all about those...


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## zephyr17 (Monday at 2:10 AM)

OBS said:


> Yes. The curtain is outside the solid door so allows you to step out of room without being seen, other than your feet.


The curtain is also a heavy blackout curtain closed by a heavy duty zipper. It is nothing like the thin curtains velcroed shut that Amtrak has. I zip the curtain shut before closing the door for the night. When I have to lift the bed at night and simply slide the door open (the curtaon already being shut), stand up, release and partly lift bed, do my business, lower the bed (not forgetting to slip the safety hook back over the release lever), slide the door shut, latch it, and turn the light off. It is really quite easy and pretty quick.


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## fdaley (Tuesday at 12:48 PM)

MontanaJim said:


> Is there anything to do in Winnipeg at that late hour (station inside or outside).


Most things in Winnipeg will be closed when No. 2 goes through (unless it's many, many hours late). However, if you go out the front door of the station, cross Main Street and continue one block up Broadway, the Fort Garry Hotel will be on your left. It's an old CN hotel with some grand public spaces and might have a restaurant or pub that's open late. At least it would be worth peeking at the lobby. We stayed there once many years ago and loved it. 

I remember there was a railway museum on the upper level at the Winnipeg station, but we never seemed to land there at a time when it was open and when we had enough time to explore it. Apparently it was forced to move out at the end of 2021 and has not yet found a new home.


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## Bob Dylan (Tuesday at 3:14 PM)

fdaley said:


> Most things in Winnipeg will be closed when No. 2 goes through (unless it's many, many hours late). However, if you go out the front door of the station, cross Main Street and continue one block up Broadway, the Fort Garry Hotel will be on your left. It's an old CN hotel with some grand public spaces and might have a restaurant or pub that's open late. At least it would be worth peeking at the lobby. We stayed there once many years ago and loved it.
> 
> I remember there was a railway museum on the upper level at the Winnipeg station, but we never seemed to land there at a time when it was open and when we had enough time to explore it. Apparently it was forced to move out at the end of 2021 and has not yet found a new home.


In all of my Eastbound Trips on the Canadian(5) I have NEVER arrived even close to on time into Winnipeg, the Usual time of arrival has been around 1AM-2AM, which means Nothing is Open inside or around the Station, except for Ticket and Baggage Service.

Since the Train is serviced during the Stop, if you get off you will have to remain inside the Station until it is time to reboard for the departure of #2..

There is really nothing to do inside the Station but walk around or sit down in the uncomfortable seats.


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## fdaley (Tuesday at 8:24 PM)

Bob Dylan said:


> In all of my Eastbound Trips on the Canadian(5) I have NEVER arrived even close to on time into Winnipeg, the Usual time of arrival has been around 1AM-2AM, which means Nothing is Open inside or around the Station, except for Ticket and Baggage Service.
> 
> Since the Train is serviced during the Stop, if you get off you will have to remain inside the Station until it is time to reboard for the departure of #2..
> 
> There is really nothing to do inside the Station but walk around or sit down in the uncomfortable seats.


Yeah, if it's late, it's probably better to just stay on the train, as you'll otherwise have to wait for some time to get back on board. The VIA facility is rather utilitarian, even though it's within a classic beaux-arts station building. There's a great rotunda between the VIA waiting area and the street, but as I recall there's nowhere to sit in the big hall. So once you've gawked at it for a few minutes, you either have to go on out to the street or retreat to the low-ceilinged VIA waiting room. Also, on a February night in Winnipeg, it's likely to be bitterly cold -- as in subzero Fahrenheit, probably with wind -- much colder than it will have been in Vancouver or Jasper.


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