# Moynihan Train Hall



## MARC Rider (Apr 14, 2021)

My Acela was about 5 minutes late into NYP. But here I am in the new Metropolitan Lounge at the Moynihan Train Hall. Nicest lounge in the entire Amtrak system.

Pro tip: Moynihan Train Hall is accessed at the westernmost end of the platform. I was in the last car, and I had to walk back quite a way to the correct escalator. If you're not careful, you'll find yourself in the old Penn Station.











More to come when I get home.


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## Bonser (Apr 14, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> My Acela was about 5 minutes late into NYP. But here I am in the new Metropolitan Lounge at the Moynihan Train Hall. Nicest lounge in the entire Amtrak system.
> 
> Pro tip: Moynihan Train Hall is accessed at the westernmost end of the platform. I was in the last car, and I had to walk back quite a way to the correct escalator. If you're not careful, you'll find yourself in the old Penn Station.
> 
> ...


It's beautiful but having the stairs empty in the middle of the hall instead of the sides will cause havoc when ridership increases. I've been there and I love it except for this one notable flaw.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 14, 2021)

I'm back at the Met lounge waiting for my 6 pm Acela home. One thing I noticed about the lounge was a paucity of charging ports. They have an electrical outlet and a USB port as part of the lamps on the end tables next to the sofas, but I can't seem to find more.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 14, 2021)

I partially take back my last post. there are more outlets, but some of them are located in hard to notice and hard to teach places.


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## joelkfla (Apr 14, 2021)

Did you get food in the lounge? How was it?


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> My Acela was about 5 minutes late into NYP. But here I am in the new Metropolitan Lounge at the Moynihan Train Hall. Nicest lounge in the entire Amtrak system.
> 
> Pro tip: Moynihan Train Hall is accessed at the westernmost end of the platform. I was in the last car, and I had to walk back quite a way to the correct escalator. If you're not careful, you'll find yourself in the old Penn Station.
> 
> ...


Do they not have good signage yet?

And are Redcaps readily available for we "First Timers" so we dont get lost like the Maze in NYP?


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## MARC Rider (Apr 15, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Do they not have good signage yet?
> 
> And are Redcaps readily available for we "First Timers" so we dont get lost like the Maze in NYP?


There was waymarking, but it was on the platform, so you had to look down. In any event, most people aren't going to want to walk to the far end of the train, so I expect that a lot of people are still just going up into the old Penn Station, which is still there, and, for some reason, seems cleaner and more orderly than the last time I was there.

You can get to the Moynihan Train Hall from the old Penn Station without having to go up and out and cross 8th Ave., but that involves going down to the LIRR level (where they're doing all kinds of construction work) walking past the entrance to the 8th Ave. Subway (A,C, and E trains), and going around the corner to the West Side Concourse. From there. escalators take you right up into the new train hall.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> There was waymarking, but it was on the platform, so you had to look down. In any event, most people aren't going to want to walk to the far end of the train, so I expect that a lot of people are still just going up into the old Penn Station, which is still there, and, for some reason, seems cleaner and more orderly than the last time I was there.
> 
> You can get to the Moynihan Train Hall from the old Penn Station without having to go up and out and cross 8th Ave., but that involves going down to the LIRR level (where they're doing all kinds of construction work) walking past the entrance to the 8th Ave. Subway (A,C, and E trains), and going around the corner to the West Side Concourse. From there. escalators take you right up into the new train hall.


Thanks Joe! Looking forward to " The Rest of the Story!"


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## NEPATrainTraveler (Apr 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> There was waymarking, but it was on the platform, so you had to look down. In any event, most people aren't going to want to walk to the far end of the train, so I expect that a lot of people are still just going up into the old Penn Station, which is still there, and, for some reason, seems cleaner and more orderly than the last time I was there.
> 
> You can get to the Moynihan Train Hall from the old Penn Station without having to go up and out and cross 8th Ave., but that involves going down to the LIRR level (where they're doing all kinds of construction work) walking past the entrance to the 8th Ave. Subway (A,C, and E trains), and going around the corner to the West Side Concourse. From there. escalators take you right up into the new train hall.



This is good to know. Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible to get to Moynihan Train Hall from old Penn Station. Good to know about the waymarking too. I'll have to remember this for the next time I'm in NYP.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 16, 2021)

OK, a couple more things about the Metropolitan Lounge. First, when you check in , they make you fill out a little slip with your name, address and phone number for COVID contact tracing. Then you use a self-service scan for a quick body temperature check. 

Second, with respect to the placement of electrical outlets, here are some examples:













So your choice is either sitting next to a side table with a lamp on the outside terrace, crawling around on the floor to find the outlets under the seats and tables, sitting at the communal desk, or finding one of the comfy armchairs facing 31st. St. They actually have outlets for charging your phones, you just have to look for them.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 16, 2021)

For those of you who can't get into the Metropolitan Lounge, here's part of the Ticketed Passenger Waiting Area:






Oh, and they have restrooms even for people who don't have tickets. They're kind of tucked away back toward 9th Ave. around where the food court is going to be.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 16, 2021)

One more thing about the Met Lounge:




They have a bank of storage lockers (no locks) where you can stash your luggage. Behind this is a little TV lounge that has CNN blaring away. It's very nice. Those who really insist on watching CNN can have their fix, while the place is isolated form the main lounge so that the rest of us don't have to listen to it.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 16, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Did you get food in the lounge? How was it?


See my trip report. If you're taking coach or business class, you could build a nice little meal that would be healthier than what they sell in the cafe car.


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## DoB (Apr 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> You can get to the Moynihan Train Hall from the old Penn Station without having to go up and out and cross 8th Ave., but that involves going down to the LIRR level (where they're doing all kinds of construction work) walking past the entrance to the 8th Ave. Subway (A,C, and E trains), and going around the corner to the West Side Concourse. From there. escalators take you right up into the new train hall.



Or, go down to any of the tracks (except 1-4) and walk west to the Moynihan escalator.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> For those of you who can't get into the Metropolitan Lounge, here's part of the Ticketed Passenger Waiting Area:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see a disaster coming if they let the public in to use the Rest Rooms, unless there will be attendants.

Remember the really bad ones @ NYP when people actually lived in them.( LAX has cleaned up their act too, they used to be a Zoo).


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## PVD (Apr 16, 2021)

Having restrooms in an area where there will be a food court is pretty much a given. As far as I know, these are separate from the ones in the lounge. The public restrooms on the old side of the station are kept fairly well under control. Much better than years ago.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> For those of you who can't get into the Metropolitan Lounge, here's part of the Ticketed Passenger Waiting Area:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love the look and style - the wooden benches look both modern and vintage train station at the same time. Very well done. Denver Union Station managed to do the same thing.


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## jis (Apr 16, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> I see a disaster coming if they let the public in to use the Rest Rooms, unless there will be attendants.


If the current public restrooms in the old station (at least the Amtrak and LIRR) sections are any indication, there should be no disaster at all. 

It takes the special sort of incompetence practiced by NJT in its section to start approaching disaster. But then with the ostentatious departure of Chris Christie from NJ Governorship, things have improved quite a bit even at NJT and its Penn Station restroom.


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## adamj023 (Apr 16, 2021)

I’ve seen walk through videos of Penn Station from the old to new sections. The area is still under a huge amount of construction. West end concourse even had contractors doing work. I thought this section was completed so I don’t know if they were still doing finishing work or were replacing defective parts. My past experiences were not good and the station was definitely in need of work which has been going on for a very long time. Amtrak and commuter rail is definitely superior to bus based transportation which is where the focus should be.


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## Mailliw (Apr 16, 2021)

Are there restrooms in the ticketed waiting areas? In any event Moynihan closes from 1am to 5am for cleaning so nobody is going to be able to live there.


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## jiml (Apr 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> OK, a couple more things about the Metropolitan Lounge. First, when you check in , they make you fill out a little slip with your name, address and phone number for COVID contact tracing. Then you use a self-service scan for a quick body temperature check.
> 
> Second, with respect to the placement of electrical outlets, here are some examples:
> 
> ...


Looks pretty much like most current airline lounges. That's a good thing.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 16, 2021)

I like how they captured the structural elements of the original Pennsylvania Station with the girder work.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 16, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> I see a disaster coming if they let the public in to use the Rest Rooms, unless there will be attendants.
> 
> Remember the really bad ones @ NYP when people actually lived in them.( LAX has cleaned up their act too, they used to be a Zoo).


Over the past 3 or 4 years, I've been pleasantly impressed with the condition of the public restrooms at Penn Station when I've had to use them.


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## adamj023 (Apr 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Over the past 3 or 4 years, I've been pleasantly impressed with the condition of the public restrooms at Penn Station when I've had to use them.



One of the Amtrak‘s bathroom in old section was modernized. And the Moynihan station is obviously new. The bathrooms at the old Penn Station were being used by homeless and were quite disgusting. I heard they were being used to do illegal drugs at times. I don’t know if they have redone them yet. I am more than sure a bathroom renovation will be done along with the modernization project, but I doubt they have started and/or completed it yet.


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## PVD (Apr 16, 2021)

The bathrooms were bad for a while some years ago, and they were redone in an utilitarian but effective design. Having the police desk moved to that side right in front of them didn't hurt. They weren't pretty, but they were no longer that bad, and were kept fairly clean especially considering the volume of usage.


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## IndyLions (Apr 18, 2021)

PVD said:


> The bathrooms were bad for a while some years ago, and they were redone in an utilitarian but effective design. Having the police desk moved to that side right in front of them didn't hurt. They weren't pretty, but they were no longer that bad, and were kept fairly clean especially considering the volume of usage.



It's amazing how something simple like the location of the police desk can improve a situation.

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but my home station of Crawfordsville, IN is across the street from the Police station. While it doesn't guarantee my car will be safe when I leave it parked at the station - I certainly don't spend a minute worrying about it - that's for sure.


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## trainman74 (Apr 19, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One more thing about the Met Lounge:
> 
> View attachment 21751
> 
> ...



Can you tell which lockers are occupied, or do you just have to keep opening doors until you find a vacant one? (I can't tell if those panels are frosted glass, or opaque.)


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## MARC Rider (Apr 19, 2021)

trainman74 said:


> Can you tell which lockers are occupied, or do you just have to keep opening doors until you find a vacant one? (I can't tell if those panels are frosted glass, or opaque.)


You have to open doors to see if there's a bag in it. I know. I checked. It is in view of the lounge attendant, but if someone's really worried, I guess it would be better to go to the baggage counter and pay $10 to check the bag for the day.


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## TheVig (Apr 19, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> You have to open doors to see if there's a bag in it. I know. I checked. It is in view of the lounge attendant, but if someone's really worried, I guess it would be better to go to the baggage counter and pay $10 to check the bag for the day.



Murphy’s Law would kick in on me. I’d have to pay $10. Lol.


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## Maverickstation (May 9, 2021)

We took a quick trip to Manhattan yesterday to see the Macy's Flower Show, and got to experience the new Moynihan Train Hall. Wow, what a beautiful space, that has been needed in NYC since the first day that the "new" Penn Station went into service. A really nice feature is that there are tributes and photographs of the late, great, Penn Station throughout the new train hall. In the baggage claim room is a series photographs documenting the history of the original station including it's downfall. This includes the protests that a group of architects organized, and a very somber picture of the old station in ruins. In the new train hall retail is starting to fill in, and if you are looking for something to eat on board, or while you are waiting, there is a new Whole Foods a block away west on 33rd street. Speaking of the baggage claim, yes, you can check bags there even if your not taking a train ($20.00 fee). Enjoy !


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## Sidney (May 9, 2021)

I have been in the lounge at the new hall. Hands down,the best Amtrak lounge in the country. The food and drinks they serve are better than any flex meal.


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## Maverickstation (May 9, 2021)

Sidney said:


> I have been in the lounge at the new hall. Hands down,the best Amtrak lounge in the country. The food and drinks they serve are better than any flex meal.



The Metropolitan Lounge at Boston South Station is pretty special as well.


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## Bob Dylan (May 9, 2021)

Maverickstation said:


> The Metropolitan Lounge at Boston South Station is pretty special as well. View attachment 22240
> View attachment 22240
> View attachment 22241
> View attachment 22242
> View attachment 22243


I've never seen the Boston Lounge Crowded.

Its Quiet,Clean and Very Nice. 

If only more LD Trains Originated/Called @ South Station!


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## MARC Rider (May 9, 2021)

I would rank the Northeast lounges as follows:

1. Moynihan Train Hall New York
2. Boston
3. Philadelphia
4. Washington

I think I might rank Chicago as being between Moynihan and Boston.
Both Boston and Philly have the most relaxed and quiet vibes. I almost might rate Philly a bit better because of the direct elevator drop to the tracks, but I think Boston is a more open pleasant space. Chicago can get busy and a little noisy, though you can go upstairs (or will be able to do so once this pandemic business ends.) I can't really judge whether New York will get busy and noisy when business recovers. It was pretty quiet and mellow the day I was there.

Washington is the lounge that needs the most work. It's a real closed-in bunker, though it has the advantage that access to the upper level tracks bypasses the gates, so you can avoid the lines. It's no fun butting in line, even if you can flash your Select Plus card to show that it's OK to do so. Unfortunately, they no longer let you access the lower track gates unattended, so you do have to go butt in line for anything leaving from the lower level. Another problem is that they only announce Acelas and long-distance trains for sleeper passengers in the lounge, so you don't get an opportunity to pre-board the Northeast Regionals. They are also a bit anal about outside food, it being the only lounge where I've been hassled merely for bringing a carry-out bag in, even though I was planning to eat it on the train. I learned my lesson, and make sure my carry-out is safely concealed in my backpack.

All of these reviews are independent of the food served at the lounge. At this time, New York clearly has the best food, though given that most users are riding a first-class Acela that serves meals and has an open bar, and are probably no traveling more than 3 hours, that seems a little redundant. I always thought that Boston had the nicest selection of snackies, though Philly has the cool multi-drink expresso-cappuccino machine. Washington, as usual, brings up the rear; in fact, the coffee machine would be on the fritz for weeks on end, and they put up a rather small percolator urn. Usually, by the time I got there, what was left was bitter sludge. When the coffee machine was fixed, the drinks dispenser would go haywire, and then they set out cans of soda. You could only pray that the ice machine was still working. Of course, my use of the Washington lounge involves either waiting for my 40 minute ride to Baltimore, or waiting on a long-distance train where I was going to be served food soon after boarding. Nonetheless, despite my critique of the Washington lounge, it does beat the alternative.


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## Bob Dylan (May 9, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> I would rank the Northeast lounges as follows:
> 
> 1. Moynihan Train Hall New York
> 2. Boston
> ...


Good analysis Joe! My expierience in the NEC Lounges matches yours, except for the New Monihan Lounge, which I'll get to see tomorrow and Tuesday while in New York!


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## Sidney (May 9, 2021)

Bob Dylan,you will be amazed when you get to see the Moynihan station and use their lounge. If only every lounge could be this great. By the way the food and drink selections beat any flex meal and they will be expanding it soon to include a full service bar and hot food. Glad I am a Select plus member.


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## Sidney (May 9, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> I would rank the Northeast lounges as follows:
> 
> 1. Moynihan Train Hall New York
> 2. Boston
> ...


I really hope food service returns to the Chicago lounge. How much longer can they use Covid as an excuse?. New York,Philly,DC and LA never stopped serving food and drink. I ll be in Chicago a week from Thursday. Gonna try Lou Mitchell's for breakfast.


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## 20th Century Rider (May 9, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Good analysis Joe! My expierience in the NEC Lounges matches yours, except for the New Monihan Lounge, which I'll get to see tomorrow and Tuesday while in New York!


Gosh... can't wait for you to share your experience at the new met lounge!


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## PaTrainFan (May 29, 2021)

Here for my first visit and as others, blown away by the edifice and the Metropolitan Lounge. Question: does anyone know if the Pennsylvanian has a typical departure track from here? Since Business Class doesn't give me privileges to the lounge tomorrow, want to position myself well enough to get a jump when boarding starts.


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## OBS (May 29, 2021)

PaTrainFan said:


> Here for my first visit and as others, blown away by the edifice and the Metropolitan Lounge. Question: does anyone know if the Pennsylvanian has a typical departure track from here? Since Business Class doesn't give me privileges to the lounge tomorrow, want to position myself well enough to get a jump when boarding starts.View attachment 22669


Assuming no trackwork in the station...9/10, 11/12 are the two best bets....


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## jis (May 29, 2021)

Sidney said:


> Bob Dylan,you will be amazed when you get to see the Moynihan station and use their lounge. If only every lounge could be this great. By the way the food and drink selections beat any flex meal and they will be expanding it soon to include a full service bar and hot food. Glad I am a Select plus member.


@Bob Dylan was there a couple of weeks back, about a week before I was there.


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## Cal (May 29, 2021)

Question. So at the old Penn Station you had to wait for boarding to begin to head down to the tracks, right? 

Is that the same here? Or can you head down whenever you're ready even if it's before boarding is called.


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## Bob Dylan (May 29, 2021)

Cal said:


> Question. So at the old Penn Station you had to wait for boarding to begin to head down to the tracks, right?
> 
> Is that the same here? Or can you head down whenever you're ready even if it's before boarding is called.


Amtrak has staff @ the Down escalators in Moynihan Trail Hall that check your tickets when going down to the platforms.

The Metro Lounge gives you a chance to board early by announcing boarding for Passengers in the Lounge and Redcaps also take you to the Trains early.


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## jis (May 29, 2021)

Cal said:


> Question. So at the old Penn Station you had to wait for boarding to begin to head down to the tracks, right?
> 
> Is that the same here? Or can you head down whenever you're ready even if it's before boarding is called.


How would you know where to go down before boarding is called? No track number is posted anywhere before boarding is called. There is no difference from the old Penn Station Concourse as far as that goes. Whe I boarded there were no Gate Agent around though, which is different. But that maybe because they know that it is unlikely that any non-Amtrak customer would by mistake get to the platform from the Moynihan Train Hall. It should also be noted that a very significant number of passengers still board from the original station and not from Moynihan, simply because the original station is closer to more Subway stations.


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## Cal (May 29, 2021)

jis said:


> How would you know where to go down before boarding is called? No track number is posted anywhere before boarding is called. There is no difference from the old Penn Station Concourse as far as that goes. Whe I boarded there were no Gate ***** around though, which is different. But that maybe because they know that it is unlikely that any non-Amtrak customer would by mistake get to the platform from the Moynihan Train Hall. It should also be noted that a very significant number of passengers still board from the original station and not from Moynihan, simply because the original station is closer to more Subway stations.


I didn't realize track numbers aren't posted, guess you have to wait for the announcement...


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## daybeers (May 29, 2021)

Sidney said:


> Bob Dylan,you will be amazed when you get to see the Moynihan station and use their lounge. If only every lounge could be this great. By the way the food and drink selections beat any flex meal and they will be expanding it soon to include a full service bar and hot food. Glad I am a Select plus member.


How often do you ride to get Select Plus?


jis said:


> It should also be noted that a very significant number of passengers still board from the original station and not from Moynihan, simply because the original station is closer to more Subway stations.


This part of the project is so silly to me. Just spent almost $2 billion on this new hall, but since we need more capacity and the hall didn't do anything for that, we need Penn Station South for another couple billion. ©Andrew Cuomo #didyouknowhe'sgovernorofnewyork #definitelynotpayinghisfriends #omginfrastructure


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## jis (May 29, 2021)

daybeers said:


> How often do you ride to get Select Plus?


It is not how often you ride, it is how many dollars worth you ride. Given today's fares you could get close to Select Plus in just a couple of Sleeper trips.


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## jis (May 29, 2021)

Cal said:


> I didn't realize track numbers aren't posted, guess you have to wait for the announcement...


Sometimes you can get to know the track number in the Lounge a few minutes before it is publicly posted and announced.

For through trains sometimes the Arrival track is posted and that is a clear hint as to what the Departure track will be


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## MARC Rider (May 29, 2021)

In the old lounge at NYP, they would let passengers know the track well before it's announced to the public. That would allow you to leave the lounge and get to the head of the cattle line at the gate. It's been some time since they actually checked tickets, though. If I had luggage, I'd get a redcap. They would make it their business to get you to the platform first, and get you to a good seat, and that worth the tip.

In the Moynihan lounge, they also announce the track well before it's announced to the public. You then have to go down the escalator to the main train hall, and then to the escalator to your track. There were no crowds in April, and the gate usher just let us down to the train, I'm not sure how it's going to work when business picks up.


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## railiner (May 29, 2021)

Cal said:


> I didn't realize track numbers aren't posted, guess you have to wait for the announcement...


They post the track numbers and make the first announcement for boarding simultaneously.


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## MARC Rider (May 30, 2021)

railiner said:


> They post the track numbers and make the first announcement for boarding simultaneously.


Yeah, in the old underground Penn Station it was quite something. It was kind of like the herds of antelopes in the Serengeti. You know, those nature movies where they show the herd milling around, then one of them gets a sniff of a lion or something, and movement ripples through the herd, and very quickly, the herd starts moving very quickly as a mass....

That's was sort of what happened at Penn in the few seconds after the track numbers flipped up on the Solari. Back in the day, the didn't bother with gate ushers, either, the mass of people just headed for the stairs or escalator.

I wonder if animal behaviorists ever went to Penn to study the crowds. It might have made a nice doctoral dissertation, at least.


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## johann (May 30, 2021)

Time-wise, what can two people with two small bags reasonably see of Moynihan Train Hall and the lounge during a [scheduled] 1:25 transfer from Train 93 to a roomette on Train 97 Silver Meteor?

In preparation of my first LD trip in a long time [round-trip TPA to BOS and on to BRK], I have been appreciatively reading many helpful and informative comments on this forum.


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## AmtrakBlue (May 30, 2021)

johann said:


> Time-wise, what can two people with two small bags reasonably see of Moynihan Train Hall and the lounge during a [scheduled] 1:25 transfer from Train 93 to a roomette on Train 97 Silver Meteor?
> 
> In preparation of my first LD trip in a long time [round-trip TPA to BOS and on to BRK], I have been appreciatively reading many helpful and informative comments on this forum.


There are cabinets (no locks) in the lounge for your bags. 
I’d say it would only take maybe 1/2 hour to walk around the hall. 

I can’t remember which entrance this ceiling art was in, but I think it was the side the lounge is on. We would have missed it if someone hadn’t told us to look up.


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## railiner (May 30, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> There are cabinets (no locks) in the lounge for your bags.
> I’d say it would only take maybe 1/2 hour to walk around the hall.
> 
> I can’t remember which entrance this ceiling art was in, but I think it was the side the lounge is on. We would have missed it if someone hadn’t told us to look up.
> ...


I didn't notice that when touring the new hall.
But then, that's how you can tell New Yorker's from tourists...you only see tourists out in the streets, looking up at skyscraper's....(for good reason)...


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## AmtrakBlue (May 30, 2021)

railiner said:


> I didn't notice that when touring the new hall.
> But then, that's how you can tell New Yorker's from tourists...you only see tourists out in the streets, looking up at skyscraper's....(for good reason)...


I know MARC Rider or someone else posted a picture of it before I went up ther and I totally forgot to look for it.

As to New Yorkers not looking up, is that because they, unlike the tourists, know that they could get an eyeful of pigeon poop?


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## railiner (May 30, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I know MARC Rider or someone else posted a picture of it before I went up ther and I totally forgot to look for it.
> 
> As to New Yorkers not looking up, is that because they, unlike the tourists, know that they could get an eyeful of pigeon poop?


Good one...but I was thinking more of "painting" a target on themselves as a mark for pickpockets or other street predator's....


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## jloewen (May 30, 2021)

railiner said:


> Good one...but I was thinking more of "painting" a target on themselves as a mark for pickpockets or other street predator's....


Here is a good story about the transcontinental rr. [I don't know how to start a new thread. Maybe the admin. can do it?] What can the transcontinental railroad teach us about anti-Asian racism?


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## AmtrakBlue (May 30, 2021)

jloewen said:


> [I don't know how to start a new thread. Maybe the admin. can do it?]


Go to Forums then on the top right you'll see a Post Thread button. Click on that and then select the appropriate forum to post in,


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## west point (May 30, 2021)

Many years ago on the west end of the lower level of Penn station you could monitor a stylus writer that listed tracks trains were coming on. Never knew the source but now think it might have been the tower(s) that posted assignments once the route was lined ?


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## railiner (May 30, 2021)

west point said:


> Many years ago on the west end of the lower level of Penn station you could monitor a stylus writer that listed tracks trains were coming on. Never knew the source but now think it might have been the tower(s) that posted assignments once the route was lined ?


That _Telautograph _was in a glass booth at the Stationmasters office, where the old-fashioned arrivals board was located. It was there mostly for the benefit of train crews, usher's, and red caps, before they were issued radio's. Knowledgeable commuter's also got early notice of track numbers, posted by the Train Director, at 'A' Tower.


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## Exvalley (Jul 12, 2021)

I had my first look at the new Moynihan station this past weekend. My wife and I traveled to New York to visit the Immersive Van Gogh exhibit. A couple of thoughts in no particular order:

1) As much as I like the "openness" of the new hall, judging by the number of people sitting on the floor, they need more seating.
2) They need a separate bag check from the ticket counter. Due to late trains, there was a long line for the ticket counter. People just trying to check bags had to wait a half an hour or more.
3) It drives me crazy that I can tell which track my train is leaving from at a station in London six months prior to departure - but I can't tell which track my train is leaving from in New York until just a few minutes prior to departure. There is one arrivals board (which is fairly hidden) in the whole hall, and they do NOT post the track for arrivals on that board. So you really cannot tell which track is yours until Amtrak decides to announce it.
4) The station is beautiful. I wouldn't say that it has the grandeur of some stations of old, but I like how it is bright and airy.
5) The food situation is still pretty bleak. I had to walk to the old Penn Station to get a sandwich. Hopefully that improves soon.
6) I was surprised at the number of people still waiting for an Amtrak train in the old Penn Station.
7) About 90% of the people on the train I came in on took the escalator into the old Penn Station. We walked (to the Washington, D.C. end of the train) and took the escalator into Moynihan. It's disappointing that so many people arriving in New York won't be entering via Moynihan hall.

And generally speaking, for a world superpower, we have a LONG way to go with our public transportation infrastructure. Other countries definitely put us to shame. This really struck me when I used the public transportation system in New York City. But the new Moynihan hall is a tremendous improvement over the old Penn Station. Keep it up, Amtrak!


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## Tlcooper93 (Jul 13, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I had my first look at the new Moynihan station this past weekend. My wife and I traveled to New York to visit the Immersive Van Gogh exhibit. A couple of thoughts in no particular order:
> 
> 1) As much as I like the "openness" of the new hall, judging by the number of people sitting on the floor, they need more seating.
> 2) They need a separate bag check from the ticket counter. Due to late trains, there was a long line for the ticket counter. People just trying to check bags had to wait a half an hour or more.
> ...


 

Agreed on most of this.
Detraining from the silver meteor, the track we were in didn’t even have an escalator into Moynihan.... we had to use the old penn station. 

I think it had something to do with a bunch of delayed through-trains due to the heat, and they didn’t want a big silver train to take up valuable space.

Food in Moynihan is pretty much nonexistent for now, but as time goes on I anticipate that changing. I’d love to grab some food and be able to eat it on the balcony of the lounge.



Exvalley said:


> And generally speaking, for a world superpower, we have a LONG way to go with our public transportation infrastructure. Other countries definitely put us to shame. This really struck me when I used the public transportation system in New York City. But the new Moynihan hall is a tremendous improvement over the old Penn Station. Keep it up, Amtrak!



Alas, the public transit sector of America is a joke, and it will remain as such for a long time, as some powerful people want it to stay that way. Just look at the Cato institute still claiming to widen highways.

Iran has more extensive rail than America.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 13, 2021)

If you have access to the Metro Lounge in Moynihan, they have a really good selection of food and drink that is served by friendly staff ( remember to tip), and coming soon there will be hot food and alcohol!

Sitting out on the Balconry overlooking the Main Hall is a real treat!


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## jis (Jul 13, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> 7) About 90% of the people on the train I came in on took the escalator into the old Penn Station. We walked (to the Washington, D.C. end of the train) and took the escalator into Moynihan. It's disappointing that so many people arriving in New York won't be entering via Moynihan hall.


That is not surprising because the connectivity to local transit is an order of magnitude better from the old Penn Station than from the Moynihan Train Hall. This has been predicted by anyone that actually uses Penn Station frequently for years.

Subways within 1 Ave Block:

Moynihan: Adjacent 8th Ave. IND (ACE), 1 Ave Block away 7th Ave IRT (123)
Penn Station: Adjacent 8th Ave IND (ACF), 7th Ave IRT (123), 1 Ave Block away: 6th Ave IND (BDFM), Broadway BMT (NQRW), PATH


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## PVD (Jul 13, 2021)

In addition to that, in NYC "avenue blocks" in many places are considerably longer than the N/S street blocks.


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## adamj023 (Jul 13, 2021)

Does Moynihan Station have taxis and car pickup or dropoff nearby? Or is it closer to Penn Station? People who use the Station will have a wider areas to choose from so it should help with traffic flow. If old Penn Station gets overcrowded, more space will be available in Moynihan. If I was using Amtrak Acela or its replacement, I would be using lounge services at Moynihan as well as other Amtrak services there.


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## Danib62 (Jul 13, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> 3) It drives me crazy that I can tell which track my train is leaving from at a station in London six months prior to departure - but I can't tell which track my train is leaving from in New York until just a few minutes prior to departure. There is one arrivals board (which is fairly hidden) in the whole hall, and they do NOT post the track for arrivals on that board. So you really cannot tell which track is yours until


This is definitely purposeful, they don't want people going down to the platform early for their nor do they want people meeting arriving passengers on the platform.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 13, 2021)

jis said:


> That is not surprising because the connectivity to local transit is an order of magnitude better from the old Penn Station than from the Moynihan Train Hall. This has been predicted by anyone that actually uses Penn Station frequently for years.
> 
> Subways within 1 Ave Block:
> 
> ...


The 8th Avenue Station is served by E trains, not F trains. However, that actually furthers your point since it means the F is within a block of the Old Penn Station but not Moynihan.


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## jis (Jul 13, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> The 8th Avenue Station is served by E trains, not F trains. However, that actually furthers your point since it means the F is within a block of the Old Penn Station but not Moynihan.


Indeed! Finger slip. Fixed in the OP. Thanks for noticing it and bringing it to our attention!



Danib62 said:


> This is definitely purposeful, they don't want people going down to the platform early for their nor do they want people meeting arriving passengers on the platform.


Indeed, this is because the platforms are narrow and provide inadequate circulation space. That is why they try to take steps to minimize the number of people that would be on the platform at any given point in time.


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## jis (Jul 13, 2021)

Redacted


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## Exvalley (Jul 13, 2021)

Danib62 said:


> This is definitely purposeful, they don't want people going down to the platform early for their nor do they want people meeting arriving passengers on the platform.


Oh, I am well aware of why they do it. But it still drives me crazy. My type A personality hates waiting until the last minute to know what track I am leaving from.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 13, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> The 8th Avenue Station is served by E trains, not F trains. However, that actually furthers your point since it means the F is within a block of the Old Penn Station but not Moynihan.


The E Train to NYP is the one I took from Queens when I flew into LaGuardia in May.

Quick Bus ride to the Broadway /Roosevelt Ave Station, then the E to NYP ($2.75).Quick walk thru NYP and up.into Moynihan.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

Apparently others are frustrated with the lack of seating in the new hall. The pictures in this article were taken when I was there. I can barely make out my wife in one of the photos.








Seat-Free Moynihan Train Hall Ridiculed As Riders Slump On Floor


After photos showed dozens of passengers forced to sit on the floor at the brand-new concourse, the lack of seating has come under scrutiny.




patch.com


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## joelkfla (Jul 14, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Apparently others are frustrated with the lack of seating in the new hall. The pictures in this article were taken when I was there. I can barely make out my wife in one of the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that seating is an issue. And I consider myself a liberal, agreeing that something needs to be done to get the homeless population into suitable housing (at least those willing to accept it.) But I don't get the assertion that every public building and transit vehicle should double as a homeless shelter.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> I agree that seating is an issue. And I consider myself a liberal, agreeing that something needs to be done to get the homeless population into suitable housing (at least those willing to accept it.) But I don't get the assertion that every public building and transit vehicle should double as a homeless shelter.


Closing the train hall each night prevents it from becoming a true homeless shelter. There are also ways to design seats that make them pretty much impossible to sleep on.

It's a tough situation, for sure.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Apparently others are frustrated with the lack of seating in the new hall. The pictures in this article were taken when I was there. I can barely make out my wife in one of the photos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's a legitimate problem. Truly a shame no one thought of this with before.

South Station (though way more of a commuter station) also has similar problems.



Exvalley said:


> Closing the train hall each night prevents it from becoming a true homeless shelter. There are also ways to design seats that make them pretty much impossible to sleep on.
> 
> It's a tough situation, for sure.



Is it able to stay closed for long? 66 doesn't depart until close to 3am, and 67 3:20am. And the first train out is only a few hours away after that.


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## PVD (Jul 14, 2021)

They use the old side for those trains.... it (Moynihan) is closed from 1am to 5am


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> Is it able to stay closed for long? 66 doesn't depart until close to 3am, and 67 3:20am. And the first train out is only a few hours away after that.


Moynihan Hall is closed every night from 1:00 AM until 5:00 AM. Between those hours, all Amtrak operations are handled out of the old New York Penn Station.


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## Tlcooper93 (Jul 14, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Moynihan call is closed every night from 1:00 AM until 5:00 AM.



Yes, I believe PVD already said that.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> Yes, I believe PVD already said that.


Whoops! Missed that!


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## joelkfla (Jul 14, 2021)

Tlcooper93 said:


> It's a legitimate problem. Truly a shame no one thought of this with before.
> 
> South Station (though way more of a commuter station) also has similar problems.


I think the homeless-unfriendly aspect may have played a part, whether deliberate or unspoken. But I think the main problem was emphasizing form over function -- make it look pretty and impressive without sufficient attention to how well it would work.

IMHO they could install congruently designed benches along the edges of the stairwells without breaking up the sweep of the hall. That might even improve the appearance, by the presence of people seated there making the hall look less sterile.


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## Exvalley (Jul 14, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> IMHO they could install congruently designed benches along the edges of the stairwells without breaking up the sweep of the hall.


That would be an unobtrusive place for some benches. The problem is that this is exactly where they line people up for boarding. I agree with the “form over function“ observation.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 14, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> If you have access to the Metro Lounge in Moynihan, they have a really good selection of food and drink that is served by friendly staff ( remember to tip), and coming soon there will be hot food and alcohol!
> 
> Sitting out on the Balconry overlooking the Main Hall is a real treat!


Oh. I didn't know that it was a thing to tip the staff in the lounges. Is that true also at the Chicago lounge?


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## jis (Jul 14, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> Oh. I didn't know that it was a thing to tip the staff in the lounges. Is that true also at the Chicago lounge?


As usual you can do whatever pleases you. I have never tipped anyone in the lounge.


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## PVD (Jul 14, 2021)

I have never tipped in the lounges with 2 exceptions. When Chicago had manned bag check, I would tip the red cap, and also, when I had someone take a drink order and bring back the drinks... I haven't been in the new lounge in NY yet, some people have commented about food service, that might make the cut in the future, depending on how it is handled...


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 14, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> Oh. I didn't know that it was a thing to tip the staff in the lounges. Is that true also at the Chicago lounge?


No, just the Servers @ the Food Service area in Moynihan( they're not Amtrak Employees/ Contract) not the Amtrak attendants @ the Front Desks( unless they perform some special service for you like Ticketing, or Luggage handling etc.)


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## neroden (Jul 14, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Closing the train hall each night prevents it from becoming a true homeless shelter. There are also ways to design seats that make them pretty much impossible to sleep on.
> 
> It's a tough situation, for sure.


Having followed the politics since the 1980s, the underlying issues are (1) the mental hospitals were closed by the Reagan administration and severely mentally ill people were literally thrown out on the street with no support, something we have still not corrected; (2) welfare support for other unemployed persons, particularly those without children, was almost eliminated starting under Reagan and continuing through the Clinton administration; (3) zoning has been used by local governments to make it illegal to construct enough apartments, resulting in housing prices skyrocketing; (4) the minimum wage has been left so low that it is not a living wage and many fully employed people cannot afford any kind of housing either.

All of this is quite beyond the ability of the transportation agencies to handle. They are major failures of our federal, state, and local governments.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 15, 2021)

jis said:


> As usual you can do whatever pleases you. I have never tipped anyone in the lounge.



No have I. But, I have never experienced anyone actually serving food or beverages, either.



Bob Dylan said:


> No, just the Servers @ the Food Service area in Moynihan( they're not Amtrak Employees/ Contract) not the Amtrak attendants @ the Front Desks( unless they perform some special service for you like Ticketing, or Luggage handling etc.)



Thanks for clearing this tipping issue in the Lounges up. If someone is a true server, that is a possible reason why one would offer a gratuity.


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## Cal (Jul 16, 2021)

I’ll be taking my first look sometimes within a week and a half. Just took my first ride on the NER yesterday


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## jamess (Jul 16, 2021)

Most major train stations in Europe also have minimal seating. I was just in Portugal, and the only seating I saw were a few benches on the platform itself. Nothing in the main area. I had to stand, but since I arrived 7 minutes before departure, it wasnt an issue.

The difference is:

-Amtrak tells people to arrive 45 minutes early, for no good reason vs 10 minutes max in Europe

-No assigned seats means people in groups DO need to arrive that early and get in line if they want to sit together vs assigned seats by default in Europe

-People arent allowed to wait on the platform / there have been no plans to widen the narrow Penn station platforms vs previous example of benches along platform

-There is no real baggage storage, so people cant drop their stuff off and wander away vs affordable storage lockers in every European rail station so you can leave your stuff and then go find a cafe across the street 

While adding seating is A solution, there are also operational changes that could be made.


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## railiner (Jul 16, 2021)

jamess said:


> -People arent allowed to wait on the platform / there have been no plans to widen the narrow Penn station platforms vs previous example of benches along platform


The only way to widen the platforms at Penn Station would be to sacrifice some track(s). That is not going to happen, unless they can finish the 'gateway' project our otherwise find a way to expand the station. The platforms are more crowded now then they were before the big rebuild in the '60's when they added support columns for the Madison Square Garden above. Not to mention, a lot more people use the station now...


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## Cal (Jul 26, 2021)

Arrived from an Empire Service train, and almost went into Penn Station! It’s a beautiful and modern station, however the lack of seating is easily it’s biggest drawback. I saw multiple people sitting on the floor, and did it myself when eating goodies from Magnolias Bakery (wonderful coconut macaroon). I saw there’s also a “lovepop”
Shop open and another one I didn’t get the name of. 

I’ll take a look at the Metropolitan lounge tomorrow.

Edit: 

To add a few things, most people disembarking from the train went into Penn, I only saw a few (maybe five) others go to Moynihan, which is a shame. 

I love the station, it’s beautiful. Can’t wait to enjoy the metropolitan lounge tomorrow.


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## Exvalley (Jul 26, 2021)

Cal said:


> To add a few things, most people disembarking from the train went into Penn, I only saw a few (maybe five) others go to Moynihan, which is a shame.


That was exactly my experience. Not all of the people going into Penn are connecting to local transit. It's a shame that so many people will miss out on the beautiful new hall.


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## jis (Jul 26, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> That was exactly my experience. Not all of the people going into Penn are connecting to local transit. It's a shame that so many people will miss out on the beautiful new hall.


Since most arriving passengers are interested in getting home or their hotels or wherever, however they wish to do it, rather than lingering in the station. I don;t see the issue in them finding the closest stairs and exit from the station rather than taking a long walk to get to the new train hall. Do they really care about the grandeur of the new train hall? Unlikely that their care rises to the level of railfan fetish about it.

OTOH, if they are departing passenger there is an argument to be made to board Amtrak trains from the new train hall. But alas there are more seats to sit in to wait for a train in the old station than in the new train hall!


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## Exvalley (Jul 26, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> There are so many sports that have become "Olympic sports" that I think these dilute the impact of the more traditional sports.


I'd say that, if you are going to spend $1.6 billion on a train hall, it's a shame that the vast majority of arriving passengers will not pass through it.


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## jis (Jul 26, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> I'd say that, if you are going to spend $1.6 billion on a train hall, it's a shame that the vast majority of arriving passengers will not pass through it.


Everybody that looked at the pedestrian traffic flows have known that for years. It was supposed to be partly a Mall and partly a station thus hopefully generating more traffic. The Mall part has not quite happened partly due to COVID and partly other reasons. The $ whatever billion was justified by the real estate and commercial use development, not by the train station concourse alone.

What they really need to fix is the original Penn Station and all three users are diligently working on that as has been discussed elsewhere in this forum.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 26, 2021)

Depending on where my car is spotted on my trip in November, I'll probably exit through Penn. Since my hotel is pretty much at 6th Ave and 37th St I don't see the point of backtracking just to see Moynihan unless the Moynihan escalator is right there.

I do plan on arriving early for my departure to thoroughly explore Moynihan, though.


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## Cal (Jul 26, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Depending on where my car is spotted on my trip in November, I'll probably exit through Penn. Since my hotel is pretty much at 6th Ave and 37th St I don't see the point of backtracking just to see Moynihan unless the Moynihan escalator is right there.
> 
> I do plan on arriving early for my departure to thoroughly explore Moynihan, though.


Could stay at the Fairfield next time. Solid hotel right across the street from Moynihan.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 26, 2021)

Cal said:


> Could stay at the Fairfield next time. Solid hotel right across the street from Moynihan.


As I found out in May on my "Day Trip" to NYC to see Moynihan!


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## lordsigma (Jul 26, 2021)

I think part of the problem with the Moynihan seating is the Covid pandemic. I think the thought was probably with the seating available in the old station, and the metro lounge along with the food hall and other venues that were supposed to be there 300 or so seats is all they’d need in the ticketed waiting area. There is some validity to that as typically before I qualified for the old club Acela Id usually wait for trains at TGI Fridays because as we all know there was nothing more vile than the penn station rest rooms. The ticketed waiting area in penn does seem like it’s gotten a decent face lift. I think when more dining options and the associated seating with the food hall opens that will help somewhat with the seating situation. This is also the situation at Boston and DC too - the dining options give some people somewhere else to go other than the waiting chairs.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 26, 2021)

Hmm, so the Amtrak Ticketed Waiting area on the Penn side is still open? If so, is it still access controlled?


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## lordsigma (Jul 26, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Hmm, so the Amtrak Ticketed Waiting area on the Penn side is still open? If so, is it still access controlled?


Yes in fact it got a major face lift - was completely redone and has a Starbucks. Don’t know the latter for sure but I’d suspect - there did appear to be someone at the entrance when I walked by it last. It says ticketed waiting area for Amtrak and New Jersey Transit passengers and red caps are even available I believe.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 15, 2021)

Wow… Moynihan Hall delivered quite a punch today after dragging off a packed NEC regional and wanting to stretch! The wide open and beautifully designed open spaces don't disappoint! Looks like some excellent restaurants will be opening soon… but not yet. So with Select Plus card in hand… and my ticket… and proof of vaccination… I headed into the flagship 1st class lounge. That didn't disappoint either! One can easily make a meal of the protein snacks and other goodies… including gourmet sodas and other non alcoholic drinks. They said hot food and alcoholic drinks will be added eventually.

So I sat out on the veranda overlooking the vast space and enjoyed a hot mini sandwich… and just took in this excellent space. Then went back and talked with the service manager. He said there is no piped in music so business travelers could conduct business without distractions. Food sourcing is through Aramark Services. Fresh fruit bowls, chips, munchies, candies, sweet desserts… everywhere... yum!

Also asked about other lounges… especially on the NEC - BOS, Philadelphia, and WAS… they lag far behind. "Oh," he said… this is definitely the flagship and Amtrak is waiting to see how things go [I'm assuming with funding.]


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 15, 2021)

Here are the places coming.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 15, 2021)

One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.



True… and just navigating is a struggle and requires a learning curve. Enjoying breakfast but concerned about running to and grabbing a coach seat to ALB at 11:20. Hoping it’s not crowded


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## denmarks (Oct 15, 2021)

Tom Booth said:


> It's beautiful but having the stairs empty in the middle of the hall instead of the sides will cause havoc when ridership increases. I've been there and I love it except for this one notable flaw.


Probably nothing they could do about it since they are directly above existing platforms. If they reversed the ones near the center and moved them to the edge then they would be very close to the other one below.


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## Sidney (Oct 15, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> True… and just navigating is a struggle and requires a learning curve. Enjoying breakfast but concerned about running to and grabbing a coach seat to ALB at 11:20. Hoping it’s not crowded


I use the Moynihan lounge to get a Keystone to Harrisburg. By the time the track is announced,the line is almost a mile long. Lately I've been leaving the lounge 20 minutes before departure. It's usually on the same track. The Philly lounge lets you depart from elevators right to the track before the track is announced. In LA you can take a tram right to the track.


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## truncated (Oct 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.



The trick for the Moynihan train hall is when the track is announced don't wait in line for the escalators in the hall but instead follow the signs to tracks 17-21 (aka the West End Concourse) and then use that to get to your track (and bypass the ticket checker) — somewhat like using the lower level in the old Penn Station. Of course now with assigned seating on the Acelas boarding ASAP isn't an issue for me but if you're on a regional then this could be helpful


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## adamj023 (Oct 16, 2021)

The train hall has been opened for awhile now and it seems like everything known and said about it is well documented in photos, and videos. Would be nice when the main Penn Station concourse project is completed. Is anyone here like me supportive of an Apple Store opening in the Moynihan Train Hall? Seems to make sense considering they have one In Grand Central and by the World Trade Center transit hub. I would be supportive of one by Penn Station as well.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.


Do the Red Caps still pre board?


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## lordsigma (Oct 16, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.


My suggestion would be to ask the lounge attendant for a red cap.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 17, 2021)

Sidney said:


> I use the Moynihan lounge to get a Keystone to Harrisburg. By the time the track is announced,the line is almost a mile long. Lately I've been leaving the lounge 20 minutes before departure. It's usually on the same track. The Philly lounge lets you depart from elevators right to the track before the track is announced. In LA you can take a tram right to the track.


I totally agree… unless you have a room or assigned business class seat this can be a stressful hassle … not pleasant at all


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 18, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> One thing about the Metro Lounge at Moynihan, however. They don't seem to facilitate preboarding for peple in lhe lounge the way they did at the old station. When they announced the Lakeshore Limited, I got stuck in the same cattle line at the escalor as everone else. No biggie for me, as I had a room, but if I were hustling for a sest on a regional, I'd regret the loss of preboarding.



A kind Amtrak employee offered to me the “Waiting Area” which may be theMetropolitan Lounge, but I just saw “waiting area”. It had wispy stylish bench seating and desks - all looking Scandinavian design. I was in Coach seating and walk slower these days - so my plan was to stay seated until 10 minute before arrival and watch where a crowd was hanging at an escalator - sure enough it was announced - and they were correct.

I was on the NYP to BOS with stopover in NLC. Yes the line at the escalator was very long but was gone in as New York minute!


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 18, 2021)

Rambling Robert said:


> A kind Amtrak employee offered to me the “Waiting Area” which may be theMetropolitan Lounge, but I just saw “waiting area”. It had wispy stylish bench seating and desks - all looking Scandinavian design. I was in Coach seating and walk slower these days - so my plan was to stay seated until 10 minute before arrival and watch where a crowd was hanging at an escalator - sure enough it was announced - and they were correct.
> 
> I was on the NYP to BOS with stopover in NLC. Yes the line at the escalator was very long but was gone in as New York minute!


You were in the Regular Waiting Room.
The Metro Lounge is upstairs and is only available to AGR Select + and Select Executive Members,( and their Guests) Same Day First Class Acela and Sleeping Car Passengers and Lounge Pass Holders.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 18, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> You were in the Regular Waiting Room.
> The Metro Lounge is upstairs and is only available to AGR Select + and Select Executive Members,( and their Guests) Same Day First Class Acela and Sleeping Car Passengers and Lounge Pass Holders.



If you're Select Plus/Select Executive, you also need a same day train ticket now. They actually check the computer if you don't show a ticket.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 18, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> If you're Select Plus/Select Executive, you also need a same day train ticket now. They actually check the computer if you don't show a ticket.


Thanks Joe, More "Less is More" from the Executive Suite in Washington for Amtraks Best Customers!


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 18, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Thanks Joe, More "Less is More" from the Executive Suite in Washington for Amtraks Best Customers!


It depends on who's at the check-n counter. The doc they most insisted upon was proof of vaccination... after that ticket or AGR membership card. While in NY I entered several times... just showing the AGR card and VAC cert.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 18, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> It depends on who's at the check-n counter. The doc they most insisted upon was proof of vaccination... after that ticket or AGR membership card. While in NY I entered several times... just showing the AGR card and VAC cert.


Sounds like the way it used to be @ the Old Metro Lounge in Chicago Union Station.
( Amtraks Motto: " It Depends!")


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 18, 2021)

BTW... while I was there before catching the Crescent, I ordered some food to take with... and what a nice 'to go' salad they had... outshines the flex salad by a country mile... was really thick with leafy veggies, onion, peppers, tomatoes, and the most delicious salad dressing. Now why can't they pack that same salad for the sleeper passengers who are paying big bucks for mediocre service??? Top 2 pics are the complementary salads from the lounge... and bottom pick is the flex salad.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 18, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> BTW... while I was there before catching the Crescent, I ordered some food to take with... and what a nice 'to go' salad they had... outshines the flex salad by a country mile... was really thick with leafy veggies, onion, peppers, tomatoes, and the most delicious salad dressing. Now why can't they pack that same salad for the sleeper passengers who are paying big bucks for mediocre service??? Top 2 pics are the complementary salads from the lounge... and bottom pick is the flex salad.
> 
> View attachment 25008
> 
> ...


I noticed that too when I was there in May, the stuff they were serving in the Lounge was much better than what was available on the Trains in the Diners and Cafes!


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## adamj023 (Oct 18, 2021)

The new Amtrak Lounge is definitely much nicer than the old one with food and drink options as well as you can see from online reviews. 

What is the purpose of the ticket checker if like the old section where you were able to avoid it, you can do the same with the new section? Seems to just slow up the line.


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## neroden (Oct 18, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> BTW... while I was there before catching the Crescent, I ordered some food to take with... and what a nice 'to go' salad they had... outshines the flex salad by a country mile... was really thick with leafy veggies, onion, peppers, tomatoes, and the most delicious salad dressing. Now why can't they pack that same salad for the sleeper passengers who are paying big bucks for mediocre service??? Top 2 pics are the complementary salads from the lounge... and bottom pick is the flex salad.
> 
> View attachment 25008
> 
> ...


Now, that's a salad! I would take that on any Amtrak train any day!


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2021)

The same company that provides the food for the trains services the lounge. They give the customer (Amtrak) what they are contracted for. We always see posts about "why don't we buy from this one or that one " instead of the present vendor. Remember, it probably isn't because of the vendor.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 18, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> what a nice 'to go' salad they had... outshines the flex salad by a country mile... was really thick with leafy veggies, onion, peppers, tomatoes, and the most delicious salad dressing.



That is a delicious looking salad. The salad dressing is one that I really like as well.


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 18, 2021)

The new MoynihanTrain Hall is very impressive especially in person but the Grand Central Terminal is still the crown jewel of NYC.

I discovered on a April 2921 night BOS to WAS that the Moynihan Train Hall was closed 1AM - 5AM prolly to keep our riff-rsff

The waiting room benches are comfortable and give good lumbar support. I did see there was soda and water for sale but I was looking forward to juice and a Jimmy Dean on board.

If you’re at the head LIRR train into NYP you’ll get a direct and classy escalator into Moynihan.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2021)

Rambling Robert said:


> I discovered on a April 2921 night BOS to WAS that the Moynihan Train Hall was closed 1AM - 5PM prolly to keep our riff-rsff


1am to 5am, not pm.


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 18, 2021)

jis said:


> 1am to 5am, not pm.


Typo corrected... but not my poor eyesight... haha. Thank you.


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## hls7 (Oct 19, 2021)

I agree that the Moynihan Hall is beautiful and so much of an upgrade from the old Penn Station. However, they really need better signs so that people actually get there. A lot of people go to the old station out of habit and miss out on all this.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2021)

hls7 said:


> I agree that the Moynihan Hall is beautiful and so much of an upgrade from the old Penn Station. However, they really need better signs so that people actually get there. A lot of people go to the old station out of habit and miss out on all this.


Actually, many use the old station simply because it is more convenient to public transit, and would not go to the new station just for the fun of it.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 19, 2021)

hls7 said:


> I agree that the Moynihan Hall is beautiful and so much of an upgrade from the old Penn Station. However, they really need better signs so that people actually get there. A lot of people go to the old station out of habit and miss out on all this.


For sure... better signage is needed! Upon entering the hall from the train for the first time I was wow'ed. But then I started asking where I could find the Fairfield Inn and Suites which is just across the streets. No one could tell me... so I finally left the hall apparently on the opposite side and had to walk around the large complex to find it ... if you are staying there... it's the 33rd street exit. Next time I'll know... you may want to use google maps on your cell phone to orient yourself.

I hope in time they will improve signage


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 19, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> For sure... better signage is needed! Upon entering the hall from the train for the first time I was wow'ed. But then I started asking where I could find the Fairfield Inn and Suites which is just across the streets. No one could tell me... so I finally left the hall apparently on the opposite side and had to walk around the large complex to find it ... if you are staying there... it's the 33rd street exit. Next time I'll know... you may want to use google maps on your cell phone to orient yourself.
> 
> I hope in time they will improve signage


Well, if you had checked the address of the hotel - it’s on your reservation - you would have known it was the 33rd St exit. 
On my outbound trip while waiting to board 49, I scoped out a few things - which I had already done with Google maps before my trip. The hotel was the first thing I found since it right across the street from the 33rd street exit that I used. Now if I can just remember my orientation when I arrive tonight on 48.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 19, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Well, if you had checked the address of the hotel - it’s on your reservation - you would have known it was the 33rd St exit.
> On my outbound trip while waiting to board 49, I scoped out a few things - which I had already done with Google maps before my trip. The hotel was the first thing I found since it right across the street from the 33rd street exit that I used. Now if I can just remember my orientation when I arrive tonight on 48.


It's all about orientation... and familiarization. I even had trouble finding the flagship Metropolitan Lounge first time around.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 19, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> It's all about orientation... and familiarization. I even had trouble finding the flagship Metropolitan Lounge first time around.


I did too - if only I had looked up.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2021)

It is not unusual even for me sometimes to blame my own pilot error on everything else possible including signage.  That is not to say that signage could not be improved. But the signage in the Moynihan Hall I found to be quite adequate. And since I am immensely familiar with the old station I am not qualified to criticize anyone else's comments about lack of quality of signage, since I seldom have to look at them to find anything there anyway


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## hls7 (Oct 19, 2021)

jis said:


> It is not unusual even for me sometimes to blame my own pilot error on everything else possible including signage.  That is not to say that signage could not be improved. But the signage in the Moynihan Hall I found to be quite adequate. And since I am immensely familiar with the old station I am not qualified to criticize anyone else's comments about lack of quality of signage, since I seldom have to look at them to find anything there anyway



Oh I think the signs are fine once you get there, I was commenting on the lack of signs outdoors pointing you on how to get there in the first place.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2021)

hls7 said:


> Oh I think the signs are fine once you get there, I was commenting on the lack of signs outdoors pointing you on how to get there in the first place.


Well depends on where you were looking for the signs I suppose 







They could provide better signage in the old Penn Station pointing towards the Moynihan Train Hall. But as I mentioned earlier for New Yorkers the lack of signage is not what keeps them from going to the new Hall. For visitors it may be a problem if they dive into the old station without looking around above ground.


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## Cal (Oct 19, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> For sure... better signage is needed! Upon entering the hall from the train for the first time I was wow'ed. But then I started asking where I could find the Fairfield Inn and Suites which is just across the streets. No one could tell me... so I finally left the hall apparently on the opposite side and had to walk around the large complex to find it ... if you are staying there... it's the 33rd street exit. Next time I'll know... you may want to use google maps on your cell phone to orient yourself.


When I got there I found it (the exit for the hotel) fairly easily (with the help of my iPhone). On a different note, I really enjoyed the view from the hotel. 

Also found the Metropolitan Lounge fairly easily.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 19, 2021)

On the balcony wall opposite the lounge, in big letters, it says 8th Avenue & 33rd Street with an arrow pointing down - probably meant the hallway was below the balcony. I ended up following another sign that took me to the corner of 8th & 33rd. Not a big deal - since there isn’t a cross walk in the middle of 33rd.
Here’s the exit I was looking for from my hotel room


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 20, 2021)

The entrance/exit directly across from the hotel is on the same level as the lounge (a level above the train hall) but opposite side of train hall.


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## joelkfla (Oct 23, 2021)

Has anyone arrived at Moynihan by taxi or Uber and gotten a Redcap?

How do you summon one? Do they hang around by the door? Is there a particular entrance that's best? Will they come out to the curb and take the luggage right from the taxi?


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2021)

4. What address should I use for pick-up and drop off (i.e. Rideshare/Taxi service)? Moynihan Train Hall is located at 351 West 31st Street, New York, New York. The taxi area is located at mid-block on 31st Street between 8th and 9th Avenues (near the main entrance). Rideshare will be located mid-block on 33rd Street between 8th and 9th Avenues not sure about the red caps on the Moynihan side haven't used them yet


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## joelkfla (Oct 23, 2021)

PVD said:


> 4. What address should I use for pick-up and drop off (i.e. Rideshare/Taxi service)? Moynihan Train Hall is located at 351 West 31st Street, New York, New York. The taxi area is located at mid-block on 31st Street between 8th and 9th Avenues (near the main entrance). Rideshare will be located mid-block on 33rd Street between 8th and 9th Avenues not sure about the red caps on the Moynihan side haven't used them yet


Thanks. What I meant was: Is there a specific entrance where the Redcaps hang out?


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2021)

I never arrived by cab or ride share... The only time I got off a train on that side, it was only partially open, but I was going right onto the LIRR to a Jamaica, where a friend would meet me and drive me home. I've never used a red cap at Moynihan..


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## zephyr17 (Oct 23, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Thanks. What I meant was: Is there a specific entrance where the Redcaps hang out?


While I haven't used Moynihan yet, I never saw any Red Caps hanging out at the entrances at Penn Station. When I wanted a Red Cap at Penn, I went to the Red Cap desk in the Amtrak waiting area. If I could use Club Acela, I asked the lounge desk person when I checked in.

I doubt Moynihan is different, with Red Caps at the Amtrak waiting area, despite the official claim they're at station entrances. They said the same thing about Penn, too, btw.


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## neroden (Oct 23, 2021)

The fact that Redcaps were never at any of the accessible old Penn Station entrances (although they were supposed to be) and also were not reliably summonable made it an unpleasant entrance for the mobility-impaired in need of assistance; you basically had to walk the whole way, and it was LONG, because the elevators were all way far away from the Amtrak area. 

The much shorter, fully accessible path from the street into Moynihan should alleviate this massively.


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2021)

The original drop off made it much easier but after they closed the center drive through/drop off, accessibility (and taxi service) suffered greatly.


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## lordsigma (Oct 24, 2021)

Aramark completely operates the F&B service at the Metro Lounge so options will defer from what’s offered on trains. Aramark is also who Amtrak outsources’s the operation of the commissaries that supply the trains.


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## John Bobinyec (Nov 30, 2021)

I arrived at Moynihan Hall on train 48 on 11/26/2021 for the first time. It was a little confusing as to how to get to the Hall from the platform. There are signs, but they are small and they use icons (stairs versus escalator is subtle). Walking west we first came to stairs, then the down escalator and then the up escalator. The elevator was further west.

On Saturday, 11/27/2021, we boarded 91. We went to the first-class lounge. It was very nice. There were a couple of procedural problems, though. You get up there via escalator. I assume there was also an elevator, but it was not obvious where it was. When you enter the lounge *each time*, the attendant makes you get out your tickets and vaccination cards. The lounge in Chicago worked better where they do that once and then give you a color-coded card that you can flash at the attendant subsequently.

In the old lounge in NYP, they would take you down to board the train before then general call to load. And Red Cap service was offered just in case anyone needed help. When loading from the lounge in Moynihan, the announcement was made and then we lined up on the main floor at the escalator to the platform, along with everyone else. And the wait was about 15 minutes - standing there. And finally, there wasn't a Red Cap in sight and no Red Cap service was offered in the lounge.

jb


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## denmarks (Nov 30, 2021)

Tom Booth said:


> It's beautiful but having the stairs empty in the middle of the hall instead of the sides will cause havoc when ridership increases. I've been there and I love it except for this one notable flaw.


I was also thinking about that but there is no way to move the platforms. That was probably the best design with what they had available.


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## Chatter163 (Nov 30, 2021)

I, too, was in Moynihan Train Hall last week, and used the lounger, though this was my second trip through there this year. Upon arrival in NYP I simply went up the escalator into the train hall. When I departed NYP, I used the lounge. If you need red cap service, ask at the front desk when you check in, just as in the old lounge. It is true that there is no longer an advance boarding announcement in the lounge; I don't know why that is.


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## Manny T (Nov 30, 2021)

Correct, my experience was similar. I was in Moynihan two weeks ago and the red cap situation was this: If you need one from the lounge, you tell the person at the desk when you first check in to the lounge. Then prior to departure there is a name call of persons who requested red caps to return to the desk where there is a seating area by the escalator. A few minutes later the red caps came up the escalator with their hand trucks, took the waiting folks' luggage, escorted them down to the tracks and from there they boarded the train.

I also observed that in Moynihan Hall itself there was an Amtrak agent seated at a small table or desk against one of the walls with a walkie-talkie who was able to obtain red caps for passengers boarding directly from MH (i.e. not using the lounge).


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 1, 2021)

Here are plan views and more information regarding NYP Station:








Guide to New York Penn Station and Moynihan Train Hall: maps, directions, and info


Maps and diagrams of New York Penn Station and Moynihan Train Hall, showing interior and exterior floorplans with layout of Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, Long Island Railroad, New York City Subway, stores, restaurants, elevators, platforms and tracks.




jasongibbs.com


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## truncated (Dec 2, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> I, too, was in Moynihan Train Hall last week, and used the lounger, though this was my second trip through there this year. Upon arrival in NYP I simply went up the escalator into the train hall. When I departed NYP, I used the lounge. If you need red cap service, ask at the front desk when you check in, just as in the old lounge. *It is true that there is no longer an advance boarding announcement in the lounge; I don't know why that is.*



I was in the lounge the Friday after Thanksgiving and they were announcing tracks in advance / before the general boarding calls in the rest of the station, so maybe it's dependent on the front desk agent if they want to do it or not?

But also now with reserved seating on the Acela knowing the track number in advance doesn't really matter — I guess it would still be helpful for those traveling coach on the regionals though.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 2, 2021)

truncated said:


> But also now with reserved seating on the Acela knowing the track number in advance doesn't really matter..


Except there are people who either don’t know they have an assigned seat or they ignore it and sit where they d*** well please. That has happened to me on both Acela & BC on a regional.


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## Exvalley (Dec 2, 2021)

truncated said:


> I was in the lounge the Friday after Thanksgiving and they were announcing tracks in advance / before the general boarding calls in the rest of the station, so maybe it's dependent on the front desk agent if they want to do it or not?


That was my experience in October on the Lake Shore Limited. They announced the track first in the lounge so we were able to line up next to the escalator before anyone else.


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 2, 2021)

Also,
Amtrak employees congregate around the next track # - I noticed this and from the NYP/MTH waiting room I walked over and was sixth in line.

The waiting room is very mince, beverages to buy and they check your ticket before entering.


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## Chatter163 (Dec 2, 2021)

truncated said:


> I was in the lounge the Friday after Thanksgiving and they were announcing tracks in advance / before the general boarding calls in the rest of the station, so maybe it's dependent on the front desk agent if they want to do it or not?



Must be, as I was there the next day, on the _Crescent_.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 2, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Except there are people who either don’t know they have an assigned seat or they ignore it and sit where they d*** well please. That has happened to me on both Acela & BC on a regional.


Me too


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## danasgoodstuff (Dec 2, 2021)

For Moynihan Train Hall Project, Refinanced TIFIA Loan - Railway Age


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## Mailliw (Dec 4, 2021)

Is the Food Hall open yet?


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 4, 2021)

Per their website, not yet. Explore, Shop & Dine - Moynihan Train Hall NYC


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## zephyr17 (Dec 5, 2021)

Mailliw said:


> Is the Food Hall open yet?


It wasn't on November 13th when I was there.


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## Chatter163 (Dec 6, 2021)

No, I was last there on 20 and 27 November. I was not surprised to see that nothing had changed from the summer, in terms of what the public could see.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Except there are people who either don’t know they have an assigned seat or they ignore it and sit where they d*** well please. That has happened to me on both Acela & BC on a regional.



I'm sure this happens all the time, but fortunately I had the opposite experience a few months ago on the DownEaster. I had a group of 6 in business class, with assigned seats. When we got on there was a large piece of paper on each seat with my name on it. As I said in another post, the DownEaster is a small route Amtrak hasn't messed up yet.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 6, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> I'm sure this happens all the time, but fortunately I had the opposite experience a few months ago on the DownEaster. I had a group of 6 in business class, with assigned seats. When we got on there was a large piece of paper on each seat with my name on it. As I said in another post, the DownEaster is a small route Amtrak hasn't messed up yet.


That's because it's funded by the State of Maine and also the Cafe Car LSA is a State employee and the Menu is much better than the National Cafe Menu.( not sure about the T&E Crew, I think they are Amtrak Employees??)


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## lordsigma (Dec 6, 2021)

Moynihan had the unfortunate circumstance of opening during the pandemic - as a result I am sure businesses that would consider opening in the train hall are probably very hesitant to open at the moment with the uncertainties. I think had it not been for Covid a lot more would be available.


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## PVD (Dec 6, 2021)

The agency that "owns" the Downeaster has always been comfortable losing money on food service since they believed that it was valuable in establishing the overall value of the service, attracting more passengers, at a higher price point thereby having a positive effect on the bottom line. That was not possible for Amtrak for many years.


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## lordsigma (Dec 6, 2021)

The lack of the food hall also limits the amount of seating available in the station to just the limited ticketed waiting area - in many large stations the food court areas relieve some of the demand for the waiting area seating - and in some stations the food court is the ONLY seated waiting area.


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## Palmland (Dec 7, 2021)

We were in Moynihan yesterday. I liked the ticketed seating area with its separate areas that were nicely done with wood trim and cushioned seats. There was an agent at each entrance and ours was quite helpful. While crowded, no one was standing and at about the same time the Pennsylvanian, Silver Star, 95, and an Acela were about to board.

The food hall had a Starbucks and a fresh salad take out- Chopt. On another side was a Bagel place and another coffee stand. More were being worked on. We crossed 8th Av to get into the building from our arrival on NJT as no one in old Penn Station could direct us to the underground passage. I eventually found it, but it was something of a maze to negotiate. 

It seemed much simpler boarding then Penn. as it was just one long escalator ride from the center of the train hall. However the announcements were hard to hear because of the echo and it was less than 10 minutes before departure when they finally boarded. 

I was surprised by how many passengers there were in the Hall after hearing prior reports but it didn’t seem crowded. Definitely a much nicer experience then old Penn station.

The last photo was changing engines at 30th St. on the Pennsylvanian.


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## joelkfla (Dec 7, 2021)

Palmland said:


> It seemed much simpler boarding then Penn. as it was just one long escalator ride from the center of the train hall. However the announcements were hard to hear because of the echo and it was less than 10 minutes before departure when they finally boarded.


Yeah, the acoustics in the train hall are terrible. You would think that with modern technology they'd be able to design some sort of directional sound system that could avoid the echo.


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## truncated (Mar 20, 2022)

The Amtrak staff in Moynihan seem to have borrowed the approach from the old Penn station of cordoning off the escalators to the tracks prior to a train's departure, and having everyone line up even before the track is officially announced:


Which of course is annoying if you have access to the Metropolitan lounge and defeats the point of the lounge announcing the track in advance (which they seem to be doing more consistently now).

But that said the West End Concourse remains open and unblocked, and although this isn't signed properly as you exit the escalators coming down from the lounge just go down this staircase that takes you to the West End Concourse and you can board your train before everyone else (I beat everyone coming from the train hall by about 5 min):


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## JaneH. (Aug 20, 2022)

railiner said:


> The only way to widen the platforms at Penn Station would be to sacrifice some track(s). That is not going to happen, unless they can finish the 'gateway' project our otherwise find a way to expand the station. The platforms are more crowded now then they were before the big rebuild in the '60's when they added support columns for the Madison Square Garden above. Not to mention, a lot more people use the station now...


The other day I booked a train from NY to Philadelphia and had to walk quite a way down the platform at Moynihan to the waiting train. It was nowhere near the entrance from the escalator. The problem with the design is that there are two narrow platform passage ways along the platform where you are pass a wall on your right from something constructed in the middle of the platform, one was possibly another escalator and it is very scary if you have luggage to pass by there with the tracks close by on your left. Especially if you are not completely sure footed. I am going to have to pay for assistance next time. It is a poor design. I never had that issue at Penn Station. I take subways and busses and walk in NYC with luggage, but this was too difficult to navigate. Luckily someone helped with my main suitcase, but I was terrified.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 20, 2022)

JaneH. said:


> The other day I booked a train from NY to Philadelphia and had to walk quite a way down the platform at Moynihan to the waiting train. It was nowhere near the entrance from the escalator. The problem with the design is that there are two narrow platform passage ways along the platform where you are pass a wall on your right from something constructed in the middle of the platform, one was possibly another escalator and it is very scary if you have luggage to pass by there with the tracks close by on your left. Especially if you are not completely sure footed. I am going to have to pay for assistance next time. It is a poor design. I never had that issue at Penn Station. I take subways and busses and walk in NYC with luggage, but this was too difficult to navigate. Luckily someone helped with my main suitcase, but I was terrified.


It’s the same platform. Maybe you need to access the platform from the Penn Station side to shorten your walk.


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## lordsigma (Aug 20, 2022)

JaneH. said:


> The other day I booked a train from NY to Philadelphia and had to walk quite a way down the platform at Moynihan to the waiting train. It was nowhere near the entrance from the escalator. The problem with the design is that there are two narrow platform passage ways along the platform where you are pass a wall on your right from something constructed in the middle of the platform, one was possibly another escalator and it is very scary if you have luggage to pass by there with the tracks close by on your left. Especially if you are not completely sure footed. I am going to have to pay for assistance next time. It is a poor design. I never had that issue at Penn Station. I take subways and busses and walk in NYC with luggage, but this was too difficult to navigate. Luckily someone helped with my main suitcase, but I was terrified.



You do not need to pay for assistance. You could board from the old side as previously suggested or ask a red cap for assistance at Moynihan - assistance is complementary. Tips for red caps are appreciated (not required) but there’s no fee. It also varies by train/platform. They sometimes do stop the trains more convenient to the Moynihan entrance - other times not.


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## Bonser (Aug 20, 2022)

JaneH. said:


> The other day I booked a train from NY to Philadelphia and had to walk quite a way down the platform at Moynihan to the waiting train. It was nowhere near the entrance from the escalator. The problem with the design is that there are two narrow platform passage ways along the platform where you are pass a wall on your right from something constructed in the middle of the platform, one was possibly another escalator and it is very scary if you have luggage to pass by there with the tracks close by on your left. Especially if you are not completely sure footed. I am going to have to pay for assistance next time. It is a poor design. I never had that issue at Penn Station. I take subways and busses and walk in NYC with luggage, but this was too difficult to navigate. Luckily someone helped with my main suitcase, but I was terrified.


Agree. I liked it at first but the more I use it the more apparent the design flaws become. The distance from the waiting hall to the trains is longer than the old one. In that sense the old station is much more functional. And that is saying a lot about the new station.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 20, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Agree. I liked it at first but the more I use it the more apparent the design flaws become. The distance from the waiting hall to the trains is longer than the old one. In that sense the old station is much more functional. And that is saying a lot about the new station.


There was really no alternative to the design, because tearing down Madison Square Garden and the office tower was just not an option. Of course the old station is more functional, because that's what it was built for. Moynihan is located in the old post office, and the access to the platforms is to where they used to have the mail cars when trains had mail cars. I personally don't find Moynihan to be too much of a problem. When I travel in a sleeper or and Acela (or northeast Regional business class) it's really not so important to be first on the platform, as the seats and rooms are pre assigned anyway. (The crowds and lines might be a good reason for Amtrak to start advance assignment of seats seats in coach, however.) Also, there's a perfectly good waiting area in the old Penn Station that can be used by ticketed Amtrak passengers if walking down the platform is too difficult. Plus there are redcaps who can help.


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## lordsigma (Aug 20, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Agree. I liked it at first but the more I use it the more apparent the design flaws become. The distance from the waiting hall to the trains is longer than the old one. In that sense the old station is much more functional. And that is saying a lot about the new station.



Which is why the old place is still accessible - and if you prefer it by all means use it. The idea of Moynihan isn’t to replace Penn station it’s to provide some overflow as well as a nicer and more uplifting place for Amtrak passengers to wait/connect for those that are looking for that as that is a common complaint about Penn - and it accomplishes both goals. For those simply looking for the fastest path to the train - you don’t have to use it. For those in which a longer walk is a problem the old waiting area or red caps again are available. But most I’ve talked to at Moynihan are just happy to not be in the dungeon and have a nicer place to wait. For me I don’t really care about the extra walk - there are other stations which have an even longer walk that you can’t avoid by using a different access point - Washington Union station anyone? At the end of the day - it’s really not a big deal especially given the availability of red caps for those that need it. If the Penn waiting area eventually becomes unavailable for reconstruction - no big deal spot the trains a little more to the west on the platform and have all the red caps out of Moynihan.

To me the extra walk is worth the lounge, nicer facility, and some daylight. To others maybe not and that’s fine. And again you can have both - red caps are available and will get you down there before the masses so you have a better choice at seat.


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## joelkfla (Aug 20, 2022)

Questions: Are Red Caps available at the old waiting room? Are there still an open ticket counter and TVM's at Penn?


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## Palmland (Aug 20, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> The distance from the waiting hall to the trains is longer than the old one. In that sense the old station is much more functional.


I wonder if it makes a difference which train you’re boarding. I remember when we took the Pennsylvanian that we just went down the steps and our train was there which was easier than running the gauntlet from the old waiting room.


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## lordsigma (Aug 20, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Questions: Are Red Caps available at the old waiting room? Are there still an open ticket counter and TVM's at Penn?


I know they were at least at first…whether they still are I don’t know. They may still have Kiosks down there haven’t been down in a while - ticket counter definitely not - it’s Moynihan if you want a staffed ticket counter. In fact there are plans within Amtrak to repurpose the old ticket counter and ClubAcela spaces as leased retail. How this meshes with the larger redevelopment project I don’t know.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 20, 2022)

Palmland said:


> I wonder if it makes a difference which train you’re boarding. I remember when we took the Pennsylvanian that we just went down the steps and our train was there which was easier than running the gauntlet from the old waiting room.


Same thing with some Southbound Acelas, I've boarded several times straight from the Escalator onto my Train!


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## west point (Aug 22, 2022)

Why wouldn't all trains pull to the west end just short of of the exit block signal? There is one reason that goes way back and I have no idea if it still appplies The crew check in check out lounge was located at one time on the lower level of the old station between tracks 13 and 14 behind ttttthe desk just west of the concourse steps leading down to the track platforms. Maybe the engineers are stopping more at the middle of the platform instead of the west end so they have a closer walk to that crew lounge. If that lounge is still there then that may be the why some trains are not being stopped at the west end ????.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 22, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Same thing with some Southbound Acelas, I've boarded several times straight from the Escalator onto my Train!


Because the Moynihan escalators are at the extreme west end of the platform, and because all Acela first class cars are at the extreme west end of the train, Acela first class passengers will always find their car right at the bottom of the escalator.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 22, 2022)

Boarding question at Penn/Moynihan:

I am pretty familiar with Penn Station but not there frequently (only a few times a year).

I have upcoming travel on a Regional that originates at New York and would like to avoid the line at Moynihan. Do the escalators in the West End concourse, the old Amtrak concourse, or the LIRR level run down for a departing Amtrak train. What is best alternative boarding point. In my ignorance, I am leaning towards the West End Concourse, since I have a lounge pass and will likely be in Moynihan's Metopolitan Lounge.

Thanks!


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## Amtrak25 (Aug 22, 2022)

Amtrak trains are announced and can be boarded in their upper level legacy location in Penn Station.

If trying to use a lower level concourse, such as West End, Central, LIRR, or NJT, all bets are off as to which way the escalators will run. Use regular stairs or find the elevators.

Departure monitors for Amtrak are in the Central (Arrival) concourse. I don't know about the West End. LIRR and NJT concourses do not post Amtrak.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 22, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Boarding question at Penn/Moynihan:
> 
> I am pretty familiar with Penn Station but not there frequently (only a few times a year).
> 
> ...


Since you'll be in the Metro Lounge @ Moynihan, using a Red Cap( tell the Desk Clerk when you enter the Lounge) to board your Train ahead of the Thundering Herd is worth a $5 Tip.


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## UserNameRequired (Aug 22, 2022)

I was thinking that the west end concourse was generically either manual stairs or elevator only trying to get down.

I am thinking about having to drag two + 50lb suitcases .8 miles and whether to do the stairs or elevator. I am guessing the west end concourse elevators are either up to Moynihan or down to the tracks, so it may fill up in Moynihan on the way down, so press up and down buttons and board on the way up, it fills, then ride down to tracks. Or, walk a little further east down the Connecting Concourse and use the Exit concourse or Central Concourse elevators (and check the escalator there too).

There is an escalator for sure on the NE corner of Moynihan to at least get to the concourse.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 23, 2022)

Just to clarify things, it is a day trip to Philly and I won't have any luggage. I always use Red Caps if I am in coach with luggage. I guess I am looking for the best way to beat the herd without Red Caps.


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## jcastallack (Aug 23, 2022)

If you are sitting near the exit and have no luggage, you may very well reach the west end concourse ahead of the upstairs lines. Trains are announced early but only a minute or two and you're crossing the entire station. OTOH, there will often be a wait for the rope to be removed whereas downstairs you can board immediately. 

For me, it's either the lounge or beating the herd, not both (I only board at Moynihan when I have an assigned seat), but I recognize that for people not there often, the lounge is worth it.


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## rs9 (Oct 12, 2022)

I have an upcoming trip NYP - CHI on the LSL. As a solo traveler I'd prefer a window seat. It sounds like from the previous posts here, the best way to get a choice of seat might be to avoid the escalator line-up and to escort myself to the West End Concourse and the signage denoting Tracks 17-21, and finding the appropriate track from there.

A couple points of clarification. Is the West End Concourse in Moynihan itself, or is that referring to Penn Station? Second, am I going to miss any pertinent information like what car to board? Is that info given at the escalator or by OBS as you reach the train itself?


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

rs9 said:


> I have an upcoming trip NYP - CHI on the LSL. As a solo traveler I'd prefer a window seat. It sounds like from the previous posts here, the best way to get a choice of seat might be to avoid the escalator line-up and to escort myself to the West End Concourse and the signage denoting Tracks 17-21, and finding the appropriate track from there.
> 
> A couple points of clarification. Is the West End Concourse in Moynihan itself, or is that referring to Penn Station? Second, am I going to miss any pertinent information like what car to board? Is that info given at the escalator or by OBS as you reach the train itself?


The West End Concourse and Moynihan are separate, though both are west of 8th Ave. I think the best description is it is between Penn and Moynihan. Physically it is pretty much underneath the Post Office steps fronting 8th Ave on the same level as the LIRR concourses. The West End concourse is accessible from Moynihan (and Penn) but is entirely separate from Moynihan's gates.

The Penn Station complex as a whole (Moynihan Train Hall, old Amtrak concourse, LIRR concourses, NJT concourse and West End concourse) is a maze.

The best way to get a choice seat is to get a Red Cap. Speaking if which, anyone know where the Red Cap podium is in Moynihan (if there is one)? I know where it was in Penn.


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## Amtrak25 (Oct 12, 2022)

Any train headed upstate NY leaves from Track 5 thru 8. There are no amenities or personnel in the West End Concouse. Go to Moynihan Concourse. There is nothing but LIRR trains on track 17 - 21.


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## MontanaJim (Oct 13, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> One more thing about the Met Lounge:
> 
> View attachment 21751
> 
> ...


ive been in plenty of train, bus, plane lounges that had other tv networks on that i didnt like and i just dealt with it.


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 13, 2022)

I appreciate the info about NYP/MTH. Can it be confirmed that I can buy a day pass for the Metropolitan Lounge for either $50 or 1500 Rewards points?

I’ll be arriving around 2AM this Saturday so I’ll find my way to the NYP side where I think there’s a 24/7 Dunkin. I hope there is seating??? MHT opens around 5AM and the ML at 7AM. My train, the Crescent is at 2PM. I’m loooking forward to my trip through the South and to three nights in NOLA ... then on to LA/CHI/DC/NYP/BOS/M*aine*


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## UserNameRequired (Oct 13, 2022)

rs9 said:


> I have an upcoming trip NYP - CHI on the LSL. As a solo traveler I'd prefer a window seat. It sounds like from the previous posts here, the best way to get a choice of seat might be to avoid the escalator line-up and to escort myself to the West End Concourse and the signage denoting Tracks 17-21, and finding the appropriate track from there.
> 
> A couple points of clarification. Is the West End Concourse in Moynihan itself, or is that referring to Penn Station? Second, am I going to miss any pertinent information like what car to board? Is that info given at the escalator or by OBS as you reach the train itself?


I view the West End Concourse as right beside and below, in a way. I suspect the problem for a coach non-Metro Lounge rider the problem is finding out early which track to go to and I don't know the answer to that? If you did want to try this, once you do know which track, I would suggest depending on how much luggage you have and whether you can navigate non-escalator stairs, heading to the escalator on the north-east side of Moynihan or the elevator 5&6 on the SE side. Go down one level to the West End Concourse. Then walk to the correct track and walk down one more flight of stairs and you are there. Or, if you have to take an elevator, go to the correct track elevator and push the up and down button, get on either going up or down and head down to the tracks. The idea being catch it going up in case there is a line in Moynihan to get on it you will have established your place on it already and ride it back down to the tracks.


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## Amtrak25 (Oct 13, 2022)

Moynihan does not open until 5am. You will be in a rather creepy legacy NY Penn Station until then with a disgusting mens room with homeless indiviudals.


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## fdaley (Oct 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Speaking if which, anyone know where the Red Cap podium is in Moynihan (if there is one)? I know where it was in Penn.



The red caps work from a counter in the new coach passenger waiting area on the west side of the Moynihan concourse. If you request one at the Metropolitan Lounge, they get sent up from there.


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## joelkfla (Oct 13, 2022)

Rambling Robert said:


> I appreciate the info about NYP/MTH. Can it be confirmed that I can buy a day pass for the Metropolitan Lounge for either $50 or 1500 Rewards points?


The website says purchasing is limited to Business Class passengers:
Purchasing Day Passes​Business Class passengers can buy day passes for the lounges at Philadelphia - William H Gray III 30th Street Station and Boston - South Station for $35 per day, or $50 per day at New York - Moynihan Train Hall.​​... but it looks like redeeming points is open to all:
Redeem Points for Lounge Passes​Enhance your next trip with a visit to an Amtrak lounge. Redeem for a Single-Visit Lounge Pass for only 1,500 points.​​Each pass provides access at any Amtrak Metropolitan Lounge℠ or First Class lounge. Enjoy a refreshment or catch up on work at our lounges before your departure.​


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## MARC Rider (Oct 13, 2022)

MontanaJim said:


> ive been in plenty of train, bus, plane lounges that had other tv networks on that i didnt like and i just dealt with it.


I find the public TV, especially cable news, whatever the channel, to be annoying. The lounge in Washington has 2 TVs, one usually with CNN, the other with a variety of other channels, and they are placed so that you can't avoid hearing them wherever you sit. (There are a few exceptions.) Having to listen to annoying background noise sort of negates the advantage of being able to sit in in a first-class lounge. That's why I was pleasantly surprised the Moynihan Lounge has a separate TV viewing area, which leaves most of the rest of the lounge blessedly free of the TV distraction.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 13, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> I find the public TV, especially cable news, whatever the channel, to be annoying. The lounge in Washington has 2 TVs, one usually with CNN, the other with a variety of other channels, and they are placed so that you can't avoid hearing them wherever you sit. (There are a few exceptions.) Having to listen to annoying background noise sort of negates the advantage of being able to sit in in a first-class lounge. That's why I was pleasantly surprised the Moynihan Lounge has a separate TV viewing area, which leaves most of the rest of the lounge blessedly free of the TV distraction.



I agree completely. I don’t have a TV at home and only watch it for baseball games if I happen to be in a hotel or dog-sitting at a friend’s house, so the noise of a public TV is jarring.

PHL isn’t bad—since the TV is at the very end of the lounge, and they don’t have it blaring, it can be avoided.


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## SNJRider (Oct 20, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> The website says purchasing is limited to Business Class passengers:
> Purchasing Day Passes​Business Class passengers can buy day passes for the lounges at Philadelphia - William H Gray III 30th Street Station and Boston - South Station for $35 per day, or $50 per day at New York - Moynihan Train Hall.​​... but it looks like redeeming points is open to all:
> Redeem Points for Lounge Passes​Enhance your next trip with a visit to an Amtrak lounge. Redeem for a Single-Visit Lounge Pass for only 1,500 points.​​Each pass provides access at any Amtrak Metropolitan Lounge℠ or First Class lounge. Enjoy a refreshment or catch up on work at our lounges before your departure.​


Did the Moynihan pricing change recently? I remember it being $35 previously.


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## IndyLions (Oct 20, 2022)

I recently had a chance to use the Moynihan facility for the first time. Very much impressed - the Metropolitan Lounge was especially nice. I liked the layout and the number and style of booths that it featured.

It was also my first time sampling the particular brand of glass-bottled soda that they offered. A nice treat!


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 20, 2022)

At Moynihan the AGR points did not work for the ML because they had to be done during the week calling customer service. But I still don’t know whether a ML day pass - if 1500 points is correct. Although I was not business class I got admission to the Monahan Metropolitan Lounge for $50. It was very nice. 

I did go up to the south station metropolitan lounge and it was empty and the staff person allowed me to sit pretty much as long as I wanted - nicer

I’m on the nine segment trip so maybe that had something to do with it.

Train #1 about 6-7 hours late. They’re handing out the stew now.


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 20, 2022)

The MOYNIHAN ML was worth $50 - the cold brew iced coffee was excellent as were the small panini sandwiches. Boylan soft drinks, beer and wine. Drinks at a separate. Bar were sold. In the seven hours In the ML I consumed about $40 in food and the comfort level was worth it.

The advance on your track number was a gas. I was fourth in line BUT IT WAS ASSIGNED SEATING. I had 50 and the most beautiful,, kind, open young woman was seated in 49 next to me ... and much. Into our seven hour conversation to Charlottesville she mentioned being married to someone heavily into recording and playing backup to the Dave Matthews band.

So. $50 - Yeah.


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## NYP2NFL01 (Oct 21, 2022)

IndyLions said:


> I recently had a chance to use the Moynihan facility for the first time. Very much impressed - the Metropolitan Lounge was especially nice. I liked the layout and the number and style of booths that it featured.
> 
> It was also my first time sampling the particular brand of glass-bottled soda that they offered. A nice treat!


We always sit on the terrace overlooking the train hall. It’s fun to do people-watching from up there. I love all the light coming in from the glass ceiling.


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## Sidney (Oct 21, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> We always sit on the terrace overlooking the train hall. It’s fun to do people-watching from up there. I love all the light coming in from the glass ceiling.


By far,the nicest lounge in Amtrak's system and the best selection of food and drink. As far as food and drink,no other lounge even comes close.


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## Amtrak709 (Oct 21, 2022)

Sidney said:


> By far,the nicest lounge in Amtrak's system and the best selection of food and drink. As far as food and drink,no other lounge even comes close.


I fully agree with the assessment of Moynihan--it is truly magnificent with amenities. I made a special trip ATN-NYP-ATN just to see it in June 2021 just after it opened. I must say that I am still very partial to Washington Union Station Metropolitan Lounge--seems it has a quiet closed ambience (usually) if not as luxurious. While WAS has TV monitors operating continuously, this has never seems offensive or distracting. This opinion probably comes from the hundreds of hours I have spent in the WAS lounge since it opened in I think 1988.


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## BalmyZephyr (Oct 26, 2022)

We're going to NYC tomorrow for the day, KIN-NYP and NYP-KIN, to see the Becher photography show at the Met. Our first time to detrain at Moynihan. Speaking of Lounge Passes, I just redeemed the 1500 points, and it showed that I was getting a pass, but there is no pass. It did not come by email, and does not show up under my account. Will they let me in if I just show that I redeemed the points today? (I'm guessing not.) Where else should I look for the pass?



Rambling Robert said:


> At Moynihan the AGR points did not work for the ML because they had to be done during the week calling customer service. But I still don’t know whether a ML day pass - if 1500 points is correct. Although I was not business class I got admission to the Monahan Metropolitan Lounge for $50. It was very nice.
> 
> I did go up to the south station metropolitan lounge and it was empty and the staff person allowed me to sit pretty much as long as I wanted - nicer
> 
> ...



What are AGR points, the regular points? I'm trying to get a pass for tomorrow and the system took my points (1500) but didn't give me a pass. Is that a Moynihan issue? Didn't see any warning about that on the website. My husband is a bit disabled so I'm trying to get comfortable waiting places for him. And iced coffee.


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## BalmyZephyr (Oct 27, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> We're going to NYC tomorrow for the day, KIN-NYP and NYP-KIN, to see the Becher photography show at the Met. Our first time to detrain at Moynihan. Speaking of Lounge Passes, I just redeemed the 1500 points, and it showed that I was getting a pass, but there is no pass. It did not come by email, and does not show up under my account. Will they let me in if I just show that I redeemed the points today? (I'm guessing not.) Where else should I look for the pass?
> 
> 
> 
> What are AGR points, the regular points? I'm trying to get a pass for tomorrow and the system took my points (1500) but didn't give me a pass. Is that a Moynihan issue? Didn't see any warning about that on the website. My husband is a bit disabled so I'm trying to get comfortable waiting places for him. And iced coffee.



Never mind, the QR pass finally showed up on my Account page. Took a few hours! Never did it get it by email as they implied, but all is good now.


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## Rambling Robert (Oct 27, 2022)

Sorry - no internet - SWC !!!

-

1. Hopefully a phone call and ask to speak to Customer Relation/AGR will help resolve the problem (BETWEEN 8AM - 8PM).. I’m told 1500 Amtrak Guest Reward points will admit one person to the ML at MTH.
Amtrak
1 (800) 872-7245
Amtrak Guedt Rewards
1 (800) 307-5000

2. At the top of the escalator to the MTH ML I found a gentleman in an Amtrak blue blazer. He looked at my nine segment ticket and approved my $50 payment to use the Metropolitan Lounge.

3. My backup plan was to use the Moynihan passenger Waiting Area (ticket access). There are plenty of shops (below)

4. When you get on in KINSTON tell your conductor whether you need an elevator or escalator access to Moynihan. Avoid having to cross 8th Avenue crom the old BNYP to Moynihan

BACK UP PLAN - use passenger waiting area and huge selection of MTH coffee and awesome hall!


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## joelkfla (Tuesday at 12:33 PM)

High Line extension to Moynihan:


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## danasgoodstuff (Tuesday at 3:13 PM)

joelkfla said:


> High Line extension to Moynihan:



That's interesting, was there a rail line going more or less that way at some point or is this The High Line Park is now its own thing and not tied to where the rails went?


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## jis (Tuesday at 3:16 PM)

danasgoodstuff said:


> That's interesting, was there a rail line going more or less that way at some point or is this The High Line Park is now its own thing and not tied to where the rails went?


The elevated structure carried a freight siding towards downtown at one time.


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## danasgoodstuff (Tuesday at 4:05 PM)

jis said:


> The elevated structure carried a freight siding towards downtown at one time.


I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I know the general history of the High Line, I meant this new extension - was there rail going this way towards Moynihan/Penn Station, or is this bit completely new?


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## jis (Tuesday at 4:12 PM)

danasgoodstuff said:


> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I know the general history of the High Line, I meant this new extension - was there rail going this way towards Moynihan/Penn Station, or is this bit completely new?


The new section never carried any rail. The rail carrying portion curves towards the river and then runs along 30th St.


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## Amtrak25 (Tuesday at 5:27 PM)

The Amtrak West Side line and the High Line were once continuous and one in the same, but had nothing to do with Penn Station.


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