# Old Tunnels



## SarahZ

This is from the "secret library" topic. I wrote this response to CHamilton but didn't want to derail the thread.



CHamilton said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> part of me was hoping they'd discovered an old library that had been bricked-up and hidden within the walls, with lots of antique books, letters, and journals.
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably thinking of the Beach subway, or maybe City Hall station....
Click to expand...

Don't even get me started on old tunnels and subway stations. I love that stuff. 

Chicago is full of old, sealed-off messenger/delivery tunnels that flooded back in... 1988? Something like that. They were used during Prohibition too.

Doesn't Seattle have a bunch of old tunnels? I read something about a tour a long time ago.



Anyone else know about cities with abandoned tunnels? I have all kinds of stories about psychiatric hospital tunnels around Michigan.  I'll have to dig up some pictures.


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## AmtrakBlue

DIG up some pictures of TUNNELS? :lol:


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## CHamilton

SarahZ said:


> Doesn't Seattle have a bunch of old tunnels? I read something about a tour a long time ago.


There's a whole section of Seattle that was raised a floor (12 feet or so), leaving an "underground" area below Pioneer Square. You can take a tour the next time you're here.


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## CHamilton

SarahZ said:


> Anyone else know about cities with abandoned tunnels?


Check out the abandoned trolley tunnels under Dupont Circle in DC. And the Cleveland subway.


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## PerRock

One of the Ohio cities has an abandoned subway tunnels of a system that war never finished.

The Chicago tunnels were used for hauling freight on a 2 ft ng railway. The bulk of the tunnels are still there and are used for utilities lines only a few areas where it crosses beneath the river are flooded.

There are some separate prohibition tunnels on the south side that only connect a few buildings and have larger rooms and such used and made for the prohibition.

London has a whole show off various abandoned tunnels and such most of which were made for the tube and were converted into various facilities for the war, and are now mainly abandoned or used for basic storage.

Peter

Edit: here is a good site on London's abandoned stations (and tunnels) http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk


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## SarahZ

AmtrakBlue said:


> DIG up some pictures of TUNNELS? :lol:


And DERAIL the thread. 

I swear I didn't type any of that intentionally.

Thanks for the links, guys. I love urban exploration, especially abandoned hospitals. Tunnels are fun, but I'm claustrophobic, so I don't enjoy actual tunneling or caving. As long as I can stand mostly upright and have a good flashlight, I'm all for it.


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## CHamilton

You might enjoy _Labyrinths of Iron, a History of the World's Subways_ by Benson Bobrick. It's been out of print since the 1980s, but it's not hard to find online. That book is where I first learned about the Beach subway and some of the other ones mentioned here.


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## SarahZ

Thanks! I'll add it to my Amazon list.


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## PerRock

SarahZ said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> 
> DIG up some pictures of TUNNELS? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> And DERAIL the thread.
> 
> I swear I didn't type any of that intentionally.
> 
> Thanks for the links, guys. I love urban exploration, especially abandoned hospitals. Tunnels are fun, but I'm claustrophobic, so I don't enjoy actual tunneling or caving. As long as I can stand mostly upright and have a good flashlight, I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

Spelunking (or Caving) is a weird one for me, I like the idea of it, but get cold feet when down there, but once I'm heading out I don't want to leave. 

peter


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## oregon pioneer

Even Pendleton Oregon (a pretty small town) has an underground tour!

http://www.pendletonundergroundtours.org/main/index.htm

And regarding caving, I did just a little "real" caving in college. I get terribly claustrophobic unless I'm walking on a path in a national park cave with lights on all the fascinating stuff, LOL!


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## NorthShore

SarahZ said:


> -
> 
> Thanks for the links, guys. I love urban exploration, especially abandoned hospitals. Tunnels are fun, but I'm claustrophobic, so I don't enjoy actual tunneling or caving. As long as I can stand mostly upright and have a good flashlight, I'm all for it.


There's an abandoned hospital on the north side of Chicago where people were breaking in, graffiti-ing and (it was discovered) tons of old medical records were left behind. Court petitions had to be filed recently to authorize the removal and destruction of the records.


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## NorthShore

In St. Paul, on the hill where the cathedral stands, there is an abandoned portal which I once noticed and have wondered to what it led or what sort of line served it. Speculation I heard from locals was that it may have been for coal service to the cathedral. But, even if this is so, via a regular railroad or streetcar service or just what?


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## Carolyn Jane

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Main_Page

Check out History, and under Maps and Stations, Abandoned stations. CJ


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## SarahZ

Carolyn Jane said:


> http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Main_Page
> 
> Check out History, and under Maps and Stations, Abandoned stations. CJ


I was just cruising around there. I think it was Alan who linked it in the subway library thread.  I love this site! I've never been to NYC, but I'm hoping to go within the next year or so. I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.


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## AlanB

SarahZ said:


> I've never been to NYC, but I'm hoping to go within the next year or so. I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.


Please don't hesitate to contact me via PM if you have questions or need help plotting out how to get around.


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## SarahZ

AlanB said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been to NYC, but I'm hoping to go within the next year or so. I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't hesitate to contact me via PM if you have questions or need help plotting out how to get around.
Click to expand...

I just noticed your location!  We'll talk at the Gathering, for sure.


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## Trainmans daughter

A few years ago, I stumbled upon an old iron door in a cliff at the foot of the Presidio in San Francisco. While I was poking around, a GG Park worker came by and I asked him what was in there. He told me it was a cave used for ammunition storage during WWII, or perhaps the Civil War. He didn't really know much about the history of the place, but did say he thought there had once been tracks going to the door. I WILL go back and do some more exploring one of these days. I couldn't find anything on Google about it.


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## SarahZ

Trainmans daughter said:


> A few years ago, I stumbled upon an old iron door in a cliff at the foot of the Presidio in San Francisco. While I was poking around, a GG Park worker came by and I asked him what was in there. He told me it was a cave used for ammunition storage during WWII, or perhaps the Civil War. He didn't really know much about the history of the place, but did say he thought there had once been tracks going to the door. I WILL go back and do some more exploring one of these days. I couldn't find anything on Google about it.


Oh man. We did so much driving around the Presidio while we were there. I couldn't get over how quiet and creepy that area was at night. I always thought the GG Bridge "emptied" onto the edge of the city itself, so it surprised me to see this dark, quiet area with just a few houses and lots of trees. It reminded me of the Mackinac Bridge (same style), with nothing but the sound of water and traffic at night. Even the smell was the same. I told Brent it felt like home, and I couldn't believe I was feeling northern Michigan in the middle of a large city.

When we go back, I really want to see GG Park and more of the Presidio. We'll have to rent bikes or something. Being in the car just wasn't the same, even though exploring was a lot of fun. And we'll definitely get in touch with you so we can have lunch. 

It's sort of a pity we aren't going to move there after all, but we did a lot of soul-searching, and we really are Chicagoans at heart. I'm just going to have to make it a point to visit SF as often as possible. I love the California "vibe"; I'm always really happy when I go to LA or SF. Seeing things like "The Presidio" and other nostalgic phrases and photos really tugs at me, but we knew we'd feel a much harder tug if we moved out there and saw pictures of Chicago or heard sound bytes from the L.


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## Trainmans daughter

Maybe when you are out here on a visit, we could meet up and do some exploration. I think I could find the old rusty door again, although it was pretty well hidden. It sure would be fun trying!


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## SarahZ

Trainmans daughter said:


> Maybe when you are out here on a visit, we could meet up and do some exploration. I think I could find the old rusty door again, although it was pretty well hidden. It sure would be fun trying!


That sounds like a Nancy Drew novel.


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## Trainmans daughter

SarahZ said:


> Trainmans daughter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe when you are out here on a visit, we could meet up and do some exploration. I think I could find the old rusty door again, although it was pretty well hidden. It sure would be fun trying!
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a Nancy Drew novel.
Click to expand...

Ooh, and maybe we could find a secret clock, a hidden staircase, or a mysterious letter!


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## NW cannonball

NorthShore said:


> In St. Paul, on the hill where the cathedral stands, there is an abandoned portal which I once noticed and have wondered to what it led or what sort of line served it. Speculation I heard from locals was that it may have been for coal service to the cathedral. But, even if this is so, via a regular railroad or streetcar service or just what?


The portal directly below the cathedral was part of a streetcar line that ran uphill through the tunnel and emerged on Selby a bit west of the Cathedral. The upper opening was closed off decades ago, but the lower end of the tunnel was used by homeless until it, too, was closed and covered.

There was another portal below J J Hill's mansion not far from the cathedral, but that was for his private business car -- he could call for a locomotive and take an elevator down to board his personal train.


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## CHamilton

NW cannonball said:


> There was another portal below J J Hill's mansion not far from the cathedral, but that was for his private business car -- he could call for a locomotive and take an elevator down to board his personal train.


I want that... 

I know that both Franklin Roosevelt and August Belmont had private tracks for their own trains. Anyone else?



> Belmont holds the distinction of owning the world's only purpose built private subway car. Named Mineola, it was used by Belmont to give tours of the IRT.


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## NorthShore

NW cannonball said:


> NorthShore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In St. Paul, on the hill where the cathedral stands, there is an abandoned portal which I once noticed and have wondered to what it led or what sort of line served it. Speculation I heard from locals was that it may have been for coal service to the cathedral. But, even if this is so, via a regular railroad or streetcar service or just what?
> 
> 
> 
> The portal directly below the cathedral was part of a streetcar line that ran uphill through the tunnel and emerged on Selby a bit west of the Cathedral. The upper opening was closed off decades ago, but the lower end of the tunnel was used by homeless until it, too, was closed and covered.
> 
> There was another portal below J J Hill's mansion not far from the cathedral, but that was for his private business car -- he could call for a locomotive and take an elevator down to board his personal train.
Click to expand...


THANK YOU!!!! Mystery finally solved.

Perhaps part of what perplexes me is that the area is now bordered by the interstate, so it is a bit difficult to visualize just how some of the ROW may have originally approached.


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## Bob Dylan

SarahZ said:


> This is from the "secret library" topic. I wrote this response to CHamilton but didn't want to derail the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> part of me was hoping they'd discovered an old library that had been bricked-up and hidden within the walls, with lots of antique books, letters, and journals.
> 
> 
> 
> You're probably thinking of the Beach subway, or maybe City Hall station....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't even get me started on old tunnels and subway stations. I love that stuff.
> 
> Chicago is full of old, sealed-off messenger/delivery tunnels that flooded back in... 1988? Something like that. They were used during Prohibition too.
> 
> Doesn't Seattle have a bunch of old tunnels? I read something about a tour a long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else know about cities with abandoned tunnels? I have all kinds of stories about psychiatric hospital tunnels around Michigan.  I'll have to dig up some pictures.
Click to expand...

Washington, D.C has Lots of Tunnels besides the Metro! Mostly they are Old "Secret" Connections between Buildings! The White House has Tunnels that Connect with other Government Buildings! One of the "Secrets" that was kept for Years about Presidents was a Tunnel that was used to Sneak the Various Presidential Mistresses In and Out of the White House and a Way for Presidentts to Slip In and Out without being seen by the Media!! h34r:


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## vabiker23518

http://thesquiresview.blogspot.com/2009/02/195-worlds-most-fascinating-history.html

Interesting story of a steam locomotive buried in a 1925 tunnel collapse in Richmond, VA. If recall correctly, a few years ago an attempt was made to reopen the tunnel but after land started to settle above, it was again abandoned.


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## George Harris

The ex-Southern Pacific main into San Francisco has 4 tunnels in the city built when a direct line was built into the city. All are double track. Tunnels 1,3, & 4 have portals on the west side for parallel tunnels that have never been built. Tunnel 2 has the second tunnel in place. It has never been used. It was built by cut and cover since it is not very deep. Most subway tunnels built cut and cover have a box shape, in other words square/rectangular in shape, but this one does not. It is built with the arch shape, in this case, double arch, that is normal for bored tunnels.

Washington DC: At the time that WMATA being built in DC the plan sets had sheet for existing conditions that included ALL underground facilities. The ones for the lines near the White House included those between the WH and adjacent buildings. There were several. You could go for several blocks without seeing daylight. There was one run in particular was referred to as having a "revolving door" for Kennedy's multiple short term female companions.


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## Ispolkom

NorthShore said:


> In St. Paul, on the hill where the cathedral stands, there is an abandoned portal which I once noticed and have wondered to what it led or what sort of line served it. Speculation I heard from locals was that it may have been for coal service to the cathedral. But, even if this is so, via a regular railroad or streetcar service or just what?


It was a tunnel for the Selby Avenue streetcar line. The other entrance was near Nina Street, apparently.


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## RampWidget

CHamilton said:


> I know that both Franklin Roosevelt and August Belmont had private tracks for their own trains. Anyone else?


Henry Flagler (Builder of the Florida East Coast Rwy., hotelier, and financier), had tracks for his private car _Rambler _at both Miami & Key West.

Edit: clarity


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## RampWidget

SarahZ said:


> Anyone else know about cities with abandoned tunnels? I have all kinds of stories about psychiatric hospital tunnels around Michigan.  I'll have to dig up some pictures.


It isn't really a city tunnel, but there was/is an abandoned railroad tunnel in Northwest Georgia in the town of Tunnel Hill (naturally!)

The original tunnel was constructed by CSX predecessor Western & Atlantic RR in 1840. It is 1477 feet long and tunnels through the base of Cheetoogeta Mountain. It played a part in the strategic Civil War Battle of Tunnel Hill, and then was abandoned in 1928 when a larger tunnel was constructed nearby. The old tunnel sat abandoned and empty for many decades until very recently when it was turned into a historical site.


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## Bob Dylan

In the same vein as the Georgia RR Tunnel, in the Hill Country of Central Texas on the Old SP Spur between San Antonio and Fredriksburg, there is an Old Rail Tunnel, circa 1880s (the Line had the Tracks removed in 1968!!) that Now serves as the Seasonal Home of a Colony of a Million+ Mexican Free Tail Bats! it is the second Biggest Bat Colony in Texas after the one in Austin under the Ann Richards/Congress Avenue Bridge and attracts Droves of Hikers and Campers during the ^ 8 Months they are there! (March-Oct.)


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## SarahZ

I love bats!


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## GG-1

SarahZ said:


> I love bats!


Aloha

Most of us have a few in our belfry :giggle:


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## JoeSF

PerRock said:


> One of the Ohio cities has an abandoned subway tunnels of a system that war never finished.


Cincinnati started construction of a subway in the 1920's and finished several miles of tunnel and stations before the project was abandoned after the Stock Market crash in 1929. The tunnels still exist and there apparently was a proposal to run light rail through them but failed in the polls. Here is a link to Wikipedia's article about it; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Subway

In Marin County north of San Francisco, an old tunnel used by the Northwestern Pacific but abandoned for many decades was recently reopened as part of a multi-use route that includes a bike lane; eventually it may be used by the new SMART(Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit) commuter rail line. Another link: http://www.traillink.com/trail/cal-park-hill-tunnel.aspx.


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## PerRock

JoeSF said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the Ohio cities has an abandoned subway tunnels of a system that war never finished.
> 
> 
> 
> Cincinnati started construction of a subway in the 1920's and finished several miles of tunnel and stations before the project was abandoned after the Stock Market crash in 1929. The tunnels still exist and there apparently was a proposal to run light rail through them but failed in the polls. Here is a link to Wikipedia's article about it; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Subway
> 
> In Marin County north of San Francisco, an old tunnel used by the Northwestern Pacific but abandoned for many decades was recently reopened as part of a multi-use route that includes a bike lane; eventually it may be used by the new SMART(Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit) commuter rail line. Another link: http://www.traillink.com/trail/cal-park-hill-tunnel.aspx.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I couldn't remember if it was Cincinnati or Cleveland.

peter


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## Ispolkom

Trainmans daughter said:


> A few years ago, I stumbled upon an old iron door in a cliff at the foot of the Presidio in San Francisco. While I was poking around, a GG Park worker came by and I asked him what was in there. He told me it was a cave used for ammunition storage during WWII, or perhaps the Civil War. He didn't really know much about the history of the place, but did say he thought there had once been tracks going to the door. I WILL go back and do some more exploring one of these days. I couldn't find anything on Google about it.


Here's a nice article about the coastal defenses of the Golden Gate. San Francisco is a coastal fortifications lover's paradise, with 18th century Spanish batteries right near Cold War era antiaircraft defenses.

On a trip to San Francisco early in our marriage, I attempted to see a few too many sites. Eventually, Mrs. Ispolkom wouldn't even get out of the car. She maintained that there were more interesting things to do in San Francisco other than look at disappearing gun emplacements. We now prenegotiate any visits to coastal cities.


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## CHamilton

Abandoned Subways in Cincinnati, Rochester, Chicago, New York (PHOTOS)


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## CHamilton

Okay, this is a crazy one.

The Lost Cow Tunnels of New York City


> Like every other major metropolis, New York City has tunnels for people, tunnels for cars, and lots of tunnels for trains. But it also has something rather more unique: tunnels for cows. Or does it? This is the story of New York’s lost, forgotten, or perhaps just mythical subterranean meat infrastructure....


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## the_traveler

PerRock said:


> Spelunking (or Caving) is a weird one for me, I like the idea of it, but get *cold feet*


Wear warm boots!


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## jis

CHamilton said:


> Okay, this is a crazy one.
> 
> The Lost Cow Tunnels of New York City
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like every other major metropolis, New York City has tunnels for people, tunnels for cars, and lots of tunnels for trains. But it also has something rather more unique: tunnels for cows. Or does it? This is the story of New York’s lost, forgotten, or perhaps just mythical subterranean meat infrastructure....
Click to expand...

But the most enormous tunnels under New York, and also some of the deepest are for the life preserving critical item - water! Just a few weeks back a brand spanking new segment of Water Tunnel 3 was put into service. Eventually upon its completion, Water Tunnel 1 will be taken out of service for maintenance.


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## CHamilton

You Could Be the Proud Owner of These 19th-Century British Tunnels


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## CHamilton

Why are there so many tunnels under London?


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## JeffW

CHamilton said:


> Abandoned Subways in Cincinnati, Rochester, Chicago, New York (PHOTOS)


I was a bit surprised that nobody had mentioned the Rochester NY tunnels. It was quite a system at one time, though parts were recently filled in. Every mayor has a different plan for them, nobody ever does anything. I've had a lot of friends make it down into the tunnels, but I haven't made it in yet (after living here over 5 years!). Here's more info on them if you're interested:

http://rocwiki.org/Abandoned_Subway


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## TinCan782

I'll chime in for Los Angeles...

http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/la-as-subject/lost-tunnels-of-downtown-la.html

and...

http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-los-angeles-abandoned-subway-2013-2


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## CHamilton

13 Abandoned Stations & Disused Platforms of the London Underground

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2013/11/13-abandoned-stations-disused-platforms-london-underground/


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## FriskyFL

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knox%E2%80%93Henderson_Station

The Dallas DART "subway" has a ghost station, the proposed Knox-Henderson station which was excavated but never completed.


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## CHamilton

Visiting The Secret Train Platform Beneath The Waldorf-Astoria


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## CHamilton

Lost Tunnels of Downtown L.A.


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## reefgeek

This is minor but cool. Newark had a very small subway, the "City Subway" or as we called it "The Jolly Trolley." it used old Public Service trolley type cars and was sometimes in bad repair. When the put in the very successful light rail they have now, they reused part but not all of the subway tunnels. When they were working they opened a tunnel that had been bricked up since I think the '50s, and found there was an underground front entrance to the old JJ Newberry's department store, with all the 50's sale signs still hanging, and a rail snowplow rusted to the tracks!


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## CHamilton

Ride London’s abandoned underground “Mail Rail”



> An underground railway that was formerly used to transport post across London is to be converted into a ride for members of the public.
> 
> The Post Office Underground Railway—AKA the Mail Rail—was the world's first driverless electric railway. It launched in 1927 and was used to transport tons of post from one side of London to another, with stops at large railway hubs such as Liverpool Street and Paddington Station, where post could be collected and offloaded for transportation around the rest of the country....
> 
> The idea is to create special battery-powered passenger carriages to take people from the car depot and some of the tunnels in a one-kilometer loop. Visitors will be taken 70-feet underground, through Mount Pleasant Station, and will stop to view audiovisual displays recounting the history of the network and what it was like to work down there.
> 
> In addition to seeing impressive feats of industrial age engineering such as thick metal flood doors, visitors will be able to see snippets of history spanning a century....
> 
> The railways have a 61cm gauge (the width of the track), on top of which small carriages traveled without drivers thanks to electric live rails. In the stations there are two tracks, with carriages going in each direction.
> 
> The service continued to operate until 2003, when it was closed down—it had become much cheaper to transport mail by road.
> 
> Since then, the trains and the tunnels have remained in place, but the goal is to turn a portion of the network into this public ride as part of plans to build a new National Postal Museum, which have just been approved by Islington Council....
> 
> Some of the most wonderful items in the collection include sick notes for horses (in Victorian times, Post Office animals had to be signed off sick) and employment records for cats, which were brought in to ward off mice.
> 
> There are also a couple of cars from the pneumatic railway—a Hyperloop-esque post transmission system that was powered by pneumatic air pressure—and a five-wheeled Victorian bicycle called a pentacycle that was another experiment that never took off.
> 
> "It goes to show how bureaucratic the Post Office was in late Victorian times. They needed cats to handle the mice problem, and they ended up 'hiring' them and giving them employee numbers. The cats were given a salary and pensioned off when they retired," Huskisson explains. The last active cat employee came out of service in the 1970s; "Tibbs the Great" (see gallery) served for 15 years.


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## SarahZ

Annnnnnnnnd that's going on the list.


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## trainman74

Excited to hear this -- I have a copy of this book, "London's Secret Tubes," and it discusses the Mail Rail (among many others). I might be in London for a couple of days later this year, but it looks like they won't have the Mail Rail open to the public yet at that point; guess I'll have to content myself with the non-secret tubes.


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## SarahZ

I'm hoping to go to London next year. I hope the cars aren't as enclosed as they look on that website. My claustrophobia kicked in just looking at the picture.


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## gwschenk

Local rumor has it that at one time there were tunnels connecting Torrance, Calif. with Fort MacArthur in San Pedro, and supposedly you could still drive them.


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## CHamilton

The Eerie Abandoned Railway That Could Become Philly's Next Park





> When the Reading Viaduct opened in 1893, Philadelphia was a booming industrial city; the elevated railway quickly became an essential artery in the beating heart of manufacturing on the East Coast. Now, advocates want to turn it into a park that will wind its way through the city.
> 
> But as a short documentary from PBS illustrates, transforming the industrial icon into a usable public space will be a serious challenge. In the video, landscape gardner Paul VanMeter, who passed away this spring, gives us a tour of the rail line, which is at turns covered in weeds, debris, or homeless encampments. ...
> 
> Head over to Friends of the Rail Yard to find out more.


http://vimeo.com/96593704


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## CHamilton

The Abandoned Subway Level Below Times Square Port Authority


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## CHamilton

Crazy station’s 290 steps from gate to platform make it the deepest and spookiest in Niigata


> Tsutsuishi Station... platform is located at the bottom of a stairwell that descends 40 meters (131 feet) into the earth.



Yikes!


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## PerRock

It's mainly on the surface but does have a few tunnels, Paris's Abandoned 'Belt Railway'

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2012/04/chemin-de-fer-de-petite-ceinture-abandoned-belt-railway-loops-around-paris/

There are a few segments on the line which is still used.

I'm also surprised no one has mentioned (including myself) the Chicago Tunnel Company tunnels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company

Someone photographed a tour 'recently' (ie 5-10 years ago) of the tunnels now, but I cannot seem to find the website.

Chicago also has a few streetcar tunnels here & there which are now abandoned. Most aren't really that interesting (going under a few roads, etc) but you can still find their remnants on the surface. You can see one of the 'ramps' here (on washington st, underneath oligive) it isn't much, but that black line in the road is a rubber gasket bordering a concrete pad covering the hole.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.883188,-87.639901,3a,37.5y,219.92h,71.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shIjcIXHog0e4xh_6S40T_A!2e0

And while not RR, but still in the Windy City, there are a vast tunnel network built up outside of the loop for the mob to use during their alcohol smuggling.

Back internationally, and a footnote about the London Postal subway, they are planning on opening up the subway (or part of it) for tourists to ride on.

peter

PS One more: Detroit started construction many moons ago on a subway system. Rumour has it that there are some tunnels & station-like area underneath the city for the subway. But it never got anywhere near completion. The other rumour is that there are some testing/bore tunnels, not ever designed for usage, and nothing else. There are some places where you can see the remains, such as concrete pads where station entrances would have been.


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## CHamilton

This history of the Hotel New Yorker (still open) includes photos of the tunnel leading between the hotel and Penn Station.

Exploring the Forgotten Art Deco Artifacts of the New Yorker Hotel


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## Bob Dylan

Very interesting Charlie!

Like lots of people, I've known about the New Yorker but never stayed there or even went inside!

Wonder if they'll ever reopen the tunnel to Penn Station and the subway?

It seems like it would help attract travelers to stay in the hotel that ride the rails to/from Penn Station!


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## SarahZ

CHamilton said:


> This history of the Hotel New Yorker (still open) includes photos of the tunnel leading between the hotel and Penn Station.
> 
> Exploring the Forgotten Art Deco Artifacts of the New Yorker Hotel


The photographs on that page are everything. Soooooo much art deco... sooooo much fashion...

I think I saved just about every one of them.


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## HARHBG

Anyone know anything about the light-rail tunnels under Rochester, NY??


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## NorthShore

PerRock said:


> I'm also surprised no one has mentioned (including myself) the Chicago Tunnel Company tunnels:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company
> 
> Someone photographed a tour 'recently' (ie 5-10 years ago) of the tunnels now, but I cannot seem to find the website.
> 
> Chicago also has a few streetcar tunnels here & there which are now abandoned. Most aren't really that interesting (going under a few roads, etc) but you can still find their remnants on the surface. You can see one of the 'ramps' here (on washington st, underneath oligive) it isn't much, but that black line in the road is a rubber gasket bordering a concrete pad covering the hole.
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/@41.883188,-87.639901,3a,37.5y,219.92h,71.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shIjcIXHog0e4xh_6S40T_A!2e0


The streetcar tunnels were three or four (total) under the river.



> And while not RR, but still in the Windy City, there are a vast tunnel network built up outside of the loop for the mob to use during their alcohol smuggling.


Who are you? Geraldo?

What existed (and to some limited extent still exists here and there) were vaults in the sidewalks with elevators for product delivery (sometimes alcohol, sometime other products.) While there may be passageway connecting up a building or two from particular vaults, the idea that they were covert liquor running passages or any sort of extensively connected network is an overblown, romanticized idea.


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## CHamilton

One of D.C.’s Most Contentious Pieces of Real Estate is 25 Feet Underground



> It isn’t the first attempt to repurpose the area below Dupont Circle. The twin tunnels were debuted in the late 1940s to relieve traffic on the busy Connecticut Avenue commuter trolley line. By the time the Dupont tunnels opened, streetcars, threatened by the rising popularity of cars, were already in decline. The station was only in operation for a little more than a decade until streetcar service, replaced by buses, ended in January 1962.


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