# Stretch/Smoke Stop List



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jan 24, 2018)

Blue Water/Wolverine:

Battle Creek, MI*

California Zephyr:

Sacramento, CA

Reno, NV

Winnemucca, NV

Salt Lake City, UT

Grand Junction, CO

Glenwood Springs, CO

Fraser-Winter Park, CO

Denver, CO

Omaha, NE

Ottumwa, IA

Galesburg, IL

Capitol Limited:

Toledo, OH

Cleveland, OH

Pittsburgh, PA

Cumberland, MD

Cardinal:

Indianapolis, IN

Cincinnati, OH

Huntington, WV

Charlottesville, VA

Washington, DC

Cascades:

Portland, OR*

Seattle, WA*

City of New Orleans:

Jackson, MS*

Greenwood, MS*

Memphis, TN*

Carbondale, IL*

Champaign/Urbana, IL*

Coast Starlight:

Santa Barbara, CA

San Luis Obispo, CA

Salinas, CA

San Jose, CA (no smoking)

Oakland, CA

Sacramento, CA

Klamath Falls, OR

Eugene, OR

Portland, OR

Crescent:

Meridian, MS*

Birmingham, AL*

Atlanta, GA

Greenville, SC

Charlotte, NC

Charlottesville, VA

Washington, DC

Empire Builder:

Wishram, WA (Portland branch only)*

Pasco, WA (Portland branch only)*

Wenatchee, WA (Seattle branch only)

Spokane, WA

Whitefish, MT

Shelby, MT

Havre, MT

Williston, ND

Minot, ND*

St. Paul/Minneapolis, MN

Winona, MN

Milwaukee, WI (no smoking)

Heartland Flyer:

Ardmore, OK*

Lake Shore Limited:

Toledo, OH

Cleveland, OH

Buffalo/Depew, NY

Rochester, NY

Syracuse, NY

Albany/Rensselaer, NY

Springfield, MA (Boston branch only)

Maple Leaf

Niagara Falls, ON (Westbound only)*

Niagara Falls, NY (Eastbound only)*

Buffalo/Depew, NY*

Rochester, NY*

Syracuse, NY*

Utica, NY*

Albany/Rensselaer, NY*

Missouri River Runner:

Jefferson City, MO*

Northeast Regional #65/66/67:

Richmond, VA*

Washington, DC*

Baltimore, MD*

Wilmington, DE*

Philadelphia, PA*

New York, NY (no smoking on platform)

New Haven, CT

Providence, RI*

Pennsylvanian:

Harrisburg, PA

Philadelphia, PA

Silver Meteor:

Orlando, FL

Jacksonville, FL

Savannah, GA

Florence, SC

Richmond, VA

Washington, DC

Silver Star:

Tampa, FL

Orlando, FL

Jacksonville, FL

Savannah, GA

Columbia, SC

Raleigh, NC

Richmond, VA

Washington, DC

Southwest Chief:

Kingman, AZ*

Flagstaff, AZ*

Gallup, NM*

Albuquerque, NM*

Raton, NM*

La Junta, CO*

Kansas City, MO*

Fort Madison, IA*

Sunset Limited:

Houston, TX*

San Antonio, TX*

Alpine, TX*

El Paso, TX*

Tucson, AZ*

Texas Eagle

Austin, TX*

Temple, TX*

Fort Worth, TX*

Dallas, TX*

Longview, TX*

Texarkana, AR/TX*

Little Rock, AR*

St. Louis, MO*

Springfield, IL*

Note: These are the stretch stops on the trips I have been on, but they may vary slightly by trip. I excluded stops which I have been able to get out at but were clearly not normal stretch stops. If you have information on the trains I have yet to ride or revisions to the trains I have posted please contribute.

Other members' contributions marked with a *.


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## BuffaloBoy (Jan 25, 2018)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> California Zephyr:
> 
> Sacramento, CA
> 
> ...


One subtraction you should make is the Zephyr stop at Winterpark-Fraser. I have never been able to get off there for a fresh-air Marlboro Light, and I have traveled through there at 12 or 13 times.


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## Palmetto (Jan 25, 2018)

I guess smokers just abstain between Boston and Washington? New York could be tricky, unless you know how to get street side.


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## JayPea (Jan 25, 2018)

BuffaloBoy said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > California Zephyr:
> ...


YMMV. I have been ridden the CZ numerous times and have never known it not to be a smoke break.


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## KleShreen (Jan 25, 2018)

Thank you for this!


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## Palmetto (Jan 25, 2018)

And the Vermonter?


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## Big Iron (Jan 25, 2018)

As of last week I was told by the Conductors that Cumberland is no longer a stretch/smoke stop for the CL. This was the case both east and west bound.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jan 25, 2018)

Big Iron said:


> As of last week I was told by the Conductors that Cumberland is no longer a stretch/smoke stop for the CL. This was the case both east and west bound.


The last time I rode was eastbound on January 6th. We were about two hours late and Cumberland was a stretch stop, although very brief. In the past I remember the stop being longer. It is possible it is now crew discretion as to whether passengers are let out or not.


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## Maglev (Jan 25, 2018)

Two _Cascades _trains in each direction have a stretch/smoke stop. Trains 500 and 505 between Seattle and Eugene have a stretch/smoke stop in Portland, and trains 517 and 518 between Vancouver, BC, and Portland have a stretch/smoke stop in Seattle.


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## ehbowen (Jan 25, 2018)

I was once on a _Sunset Limited_ which was 12 minutes early into Sanderson, Texas. The conductor opened the doors and made it a smoke stop!


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## TinCan782 (Jan 25, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> I was once on a _Sunset Limited_ which was 12 minutes early into Sanderson, Texas. The conductor opened the doors and made it a smoke stop!


We once had a 45 minute stop at Alpine, TX on #2/422. Way ahead of schedule!


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## Asher (Jan 26, 2018)

Smoke and stretch at those stops. Fresh air,

I doubt it.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jan 26, 2018)

anumberone said:


> Smoke and stretch at those stops. Fresh air,
> 
> I doubt it.


Depending on where you are you can get far enough away from the smokers.

I'm a non smoker and I usually do find these to be refreshing and useful just to get out of the train and literally get fresh air and depending on the time of day, sunshine. I found getting water bottles at Albany to be useful and the general store at Grand Junction, CO useful.


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## Steve4031 (Jan 26, 2018)

Maglev said:


> Two _Cascades _trains in each direction have a stretch/smoke stop. Trains 500 and 505 between Seattle and Eugene have a stretch/smoke stop in Portland, and trains 517 and 518 between Vancouver, BC, and Portland have a stretch/smoke stop in Seattle.



Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Railroad Bill (Jan 26, 2018)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Big Iron said:
> 
> 
> > As of last week I was told by the Conductors that Cumberland is no longer a stretch/smoke stop for the CL. This was the case both east and west bound.
> ...


Because the stop can be a double spot situation, there is usually little time to let people off for a smoke. If the train eastbound is on time or early there is a chance, but one time I got off in sleeper up front and then waited until they spotted the coach on the rear and hopped on there. But when they only spot for the coach, everyone had to move to the coach past the SSL to get off and that left really no time for any smoking or stretching. They may now have decided to do away with these hassles and just keep non transcients on the train.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 26, 2018)

Posts not specific to smoking/fresh air stops removed.


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## pennyk (Jan 26, 2018)

Thank you to the OP for maintaining a master list. Thank you to members for your additional contributions. In order to attempt to maintain a "clean" and informative thread, we have removed the posts that have suggested additions after the OP has added them to his master list.


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## Thirdrail7 (Jan 27, 2018)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Big Iron said:
> 
> 
> > As of last week I was told by the Conductors that Cumberland is no longer a stretch/smoke stop for the CL. This was the case both east and west bound.
> ...


That's the problem with a list like this. ALL fresh air stops are based upon scheduled dwell. Anything outside of that is at crew discretion. By the same token, any stop that have a significant dwell can be made into a fresh air stop at the discretion of the crew. An example is around the major holidays, when freight traffic is low. Plenty of stops became fresh air stops.

The funny thing is New York is listed under 66 and you're not allowed to smoke on the platform.


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## dogbert617 (Feb 6, 2018)

The Lake Shore Limited smoke stops listed above are correct, since I rode that train once from New York back home to Chicago. In fact, I recall one of the conductors on that trip clearly announced that South Bend was NOT a smoking stop, and he said it in a funny N-O-T way. I think I once heard from someone else that Meridian, MS is supposedly a smoke stop on the Crescent, south of Atlanta. Birmingham supposedly was one too, but I don't know if it'll still be called as one now that this station was just renovated. Maybe someone else could update about the smoke stop status, of Birmingham?

Jefferson City has been sometimes called as a smoke stop for Missouri River Runner trains, but I don't know if it's always called as one. Ditto with Battle Creek, for Michigan service trains. And for the City of New Orleans(hadn't ridden in forever, though):

Champaign-Urbana(dunno if this one has changed)

Carbondale(if you're up late at night)

Memphis

Greenwood(this is a crew change point)

Jackson

If there are any errors I made with where the CONO smoke stops are nowadays, feel free to correct.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Feb 6, 2018)

dogbert617 said:


> The Lake Shore Limited smoke stops listed above are correct, since I rode that train once from New York back home to Chicago. In fact, I recall one of the conductors on that trip clearly announced that South Bend was NOT a smoking stop, and he said it in a funny N-O-T way. I think I once heard from someone else that Meridian, MS is supposedly a smoke stop on the Crescent, south of Atlanta. Birmingham supposedly was one too, but I don't know if it'll still be called as one now that this station was just renovated. Maybe someone else could update about the smoke stop status, of Birmingham?
> 
> Jefferson City has been sometimes called as a smoke stop for Missouri River Runner trains, but I don't know if it's always called as one. Ditto with Battle Creek, for Michigan service trains. And for the City of New Orleans(hadn't ridden in forever, though):
> 
> ...


I have edited the post to reflect your information. While I have never been on that segment of the Crescent, I doubt Birmingham's status as a stretch stop has changed with the new station as the platform itself is still the same.


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## Pere Flyer (Feb 25, 2018)

Ardmore, OK, is the lone smoke stop for the Heartland Flyer.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## me_little_me (Mar 14, 2018)

And the Sunset Limited?


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## williamn (Mar 23, 2018)

Maple Leaf

Niagara Falls, ON (Northbound)

Niagara Falls, NY (Southbound)


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Mar 23, 2018)

williamn said:


> Maple Leaf
> 
> Niagara Falls, ON (Northbound)
> 
> Niagara Falls, NY (Southbound)


Do you know if there are any others? I would think Albany-Rensselaer would be a stretch stop as well, if not Syracuse, Rochester, and/or Buffalo-Depew.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 23, 2018)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> williamn said:
> 
> 
> > Maple Leaf
> ...


This is correct and sometimes you can also get off in Utica if on time!


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 23, 2018)

me_little_me said:


> And the Sunset Limited?


Houston,San Antonio,Alpine,El Paso and Tucson.


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## dogbert617 (Jun 2, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > williamn said:
> ...


I didn't realize Utica can sometimes be called as a smoke/stretch stop, IF the train is on time going through there on Lake Shore Limited, Maple Leaf, and etc. Interesting to learn. When I took the Lake Shore Limited a few years ago going back from NYC to Chicago, Utica wasn't called as such a stop for passengers going through there to later destinations to briefly get off to stretch/smoke/etc.


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## Palmetto (Jun 3, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > And the Sunset Limited?
> ...


I believe those are engine crew change points.


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## JRR (Jul 2, 2018)

I found it interesting to note the stops on the Meteor between Savanah and Washington DC.

I’ve always been asleep and missed them and am usually eating breakfast during the DC stop.


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## cpotisch (Jul 2, 2018)

Palmetto said:


> Bob Dylan said:
> 
> 
> > me_little_me said:
> ...


I haven't been through Houston on the Sunset Limited, but San Antonio Alpine, El Paso, and Tucson were all smoke stops when I rode #2/#422 earlier this year.


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## Railroad Bill (Jul 2, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Dylan said:
> ...


Already stated by Bob Dylan (Jim) yesterday.


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## cpotisch (Jul 2, 2018)

Railroad Bill said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Palmetto said:
> ...


Where? I didn't see.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 2, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


Look in this quote....


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## cpotisch (Jul 3, 2018)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Look in this quote....


Oh, I saw _that_ post. My post was responding to Palmetto, who had corrected Jim that those stops were engine crew change points, and not smoke stops. So I was responding that they _were_ smoke stops when I rode it.


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## the_traveler (Jul 4, 2018)

That quote is YOUR quote that YOU yourself posted!


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## cpotisch (Jul 4, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> That quote is YOUR quote that YOU yourself posted!


This one is (obviously) mine...



cpotisch said:


> I haven't been through Houston on the Sunset Limited, but San Antonio Alpine, El Paso, and Tucson were all smoke stops when I rode #2/#422 earlier this year.


...but I was talking about to (and I think AmtrakBlue was as well) this post by Bob Dylan:



Bob Dylan said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > And the Sunset Limited?
> ...


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## the_traveler (Jul 5, 2018)

Note your own post (#51), and the 2nd quoted post entry by Bob Dylan.


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## cpotisch (Jul 5, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Note your own post (#51), and the 2nd quoted post entry by Bob Dylan.


At this point I'm probably just hallucinating, but I don't see a post #51 anywhere, and only see one post by Bob Dylan, which was quoted and responded to by Palmetto, who I responded to. I'm totally derailing this thread at this point, though.


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## bmjhagen9426 (Jul 10, 2018)

At Portland, OR, you can't smoke on the platform, and you need to go out the building to smoke, per memo by the City of Portland.

Also, I heard that smoking is prohibited at Sacramento Valley Rail Station platform and building. Can anyone verify or refute my claims on Sacramento being a non-smoking stop?


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## texline (Jul 11, 2018)

I have seen passengers smoking on the platform in Sacramento. I also had a morning when the Zephyr and Capitol Corridor met and the CZ passengers were smoking. A guy came off the CC, looked at the smokers at the end of the platform then ran to an SCA and started insisting on his conductor. A conductor showed up, listened to the guy rant and then walked down to the smokers. They finished up and walked away. I heard later that smoking was not allowed but it wasn’t an enforced rule. So as of a month ago, people smoked on the end of the platform but I have no idea if it is official not allowed.


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## dogbert617 (Jul 12, 2018)

texline said:


> I have seen passengers smoking on the platform in Sacramento. I also had a morning when the Zephyr and Capitol Corridor met and the CZ passengers were smoking. A guy came off the CC, looked at the smokers at the end of the platform then ran to an SCA and started insisting on his conductor. A conductor showed up, listened to the guy rant and then walked down to the smokers. They finished up and walked away. I heard later that smoking was not allowed but it wasn’t an enforced rule. So as of a month ago, people smoked on the end of the platform but I have no idea if it is official not allowed.


Never have ridden Coast Starlight(Seattle-LA), but I believe I've supposedly heard from others who've ridden that train that the Sacramento platform is non-smoking. I'll guess that rule isn't enforced, just as I'd suspect....


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## bmjhagen9426 (Jul 12, 2018)

texline said:


> I have seen passengers smoking on the platform in Sacramento. I also had a morning when the Zephyr and Capitol Corridor met and the CZ passengers were smoking. A guy came off the CC, looked at the smokers at the end of the platform then ran to an SCA and started insisting on his conductor. A conductor showed up, listened to the guy rant and then walked down to the smokers. They finished up and walked away. I heard later that smoking was not allowed but it wasn’t an enforced rule. So as of a month ago, people smoked on the end of the platform but I have no idea if it is official not allowed.


I have been to Sac multiple times. Once every so many minutes, this announcement will show up that the TTS announcer will say:



> ...smoking is prohibited in and around the platform...


And of course, I have yet to see someone busted there for smoking.


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## saxman (Jul 23, 2018)

Grand Forks, ND is not a smoke stop. It's usually blocking a crossing while there.


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## dogbert617 (Aug 17, 2018)

saxman said:


> Grand Forks, ND is not a smoke stop. It's usually blocking a crossing while there.


I just looked over arrival and departure times, and I think you're right that it isn't a smoke stop unlike what I thought for the Empire Builder. I am starting to think Winnemucca, NV might be a smoke stop for the California Zephyr, looking at its arrival and departure times from that station on most days.


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## Siegmund (Dec 20, 2018)

I move to strike Wishram from 27/28's list of smoking stops. Pasco, yes, if you're awake in the middle of the night... but if you are on time, Wishram is a 30 second pause.


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## basketmaker (May 2, 2019)

BuffaloBoy said:


> One subtraction you should make is the Zephyr stop at Winterpark-Fraser. I have never been able to get off there for a fresh-air Marlboro Light, and I have traveled through there at 12 or 13 times.


Really the many times I've gone thru (both directions) I had a chance to burn at least one or two each time. Last trip I stood there chatting with the Conductor while he knocked one out! Also, was time at the old Winter Park stop at Depot Road (if memory serves me right) not the current Winter Park stop used only for the Winter Park Express.


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## basketmaker (May 2, 2019)

dogbert617 said:


> I just looked over arrival and departure times, and I think you're right that it isn't a smoke stop unlike what I thought for the Empire Builder. I am starting to think Winnemucca, NV might be a smoke stop for the California Zephyr, looking at its arrival and departure times from that station on most days.


Winnemucca was a smoke stop last westbound trip.


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## Asher (May 4, 2019)

Smoke em if ya got em, field strip when finished.


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## F900ElCapitan (May 6, 2019)

Watching the VRF cam it appears that Barstow is a smoke stop for at least the Eastbound SWC. Westbound is typically very early in the morning, so I don’t know if they offer it then.


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## dogbert617 (Jun 4, 2019)

basketmaker said:


> Winnemucca was a smoke stop last westbound trip.



I later found this map that shows Winnemucca is a crew change point(at http://trn.trains.com/~/media/files/pdf/map-of-the-month/trn-m0506_a.pdf ), so I'd say that for sure would be a smoke/stretch stop.



anumberone said:


> Smoke em if ya got em, field strip when finished.



I always have fieldstripped my cigs, that's for sure! Hate that too many smokers still litter, ugh.


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## drdumont (Jun 7, 2019)

Interesting thread. Since I just got my 4th stent and finished my 3rd Widowmaker, that is behind me, it seems. But on the Texas Eagle, ISTR Austin, Temple, FTW, Dallas, Mineolaor Marshall, sometimes Texarkana (since that is next to a prison, they're a little cranky about getting off the train. I'm usually asleep till STL.
Hope this helps...


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## dogbert617 (Jul 9, 2019)

drdumont said:


> Interesting thread. Since I just got my 4th stent and finished my 3rd Widowmaker, that is behind me, it seems. But on the Texas Eagle, ISTR Austin, Temple, FTW, Dallas, Mineolaor Marshall, sometimes Texarkana (since that is next to a prison, they're a little cranky about getting off the train. I'm usually asleep till STL.
> Hope this helps...



So for Mineola and/or Marshall, are those only called as smoke/stretch stops if the train is on time? I know on a different Amtrak long distance train(Empire Builder), that I got the impression Williston, ND seems to only sometimes be called as a brief smoke/stretch stop ONLY IF the train is running on time. I didn't get off the train to briefly look at Williston's platform a little closer going west, and as the Amtrak employees going east on #8/28 announced Williston wouldn't be a stretch stop going east, I was a tad disappointed about that. Reason being that I didn't get off at Williston going west, and looking back I wish I had stepped off briefly to take a very fast look from that platform. Ah well, next time am crossing my fingers I'll get to check out Williston's station during a smoke/stretch stop passing through there, provided it is called again as such a stretch stop if I pass through there again on the EB on a later trip. As for Texas Eagle, I've heard Little Rock is a smoke/stretch stop, IF you're up that late/early when the train gets to Little Rock.

Never did figure out if Grand Forks and/or Fargo are ever allowable smoke/stretch stops if one is oddly up that darned late, but next time I ride the EB, I'll ask an Amtrak train employee this question. The Havre, MT one was interesting, as it's long enough to allow someone a quick walk south to US Hwy. 2 to look at that street and make it back for some quick pictures, before the train leaves. It's too bad at Shelby, MT the platform is on the north side of the station(and not south), since I would've liked a quick look at Shelby's downtown. Although since I discovered there is a local shuttle one can ride(and surprisingly for free) between Shelby and Great Falls( https://northern.rural-transit.com/green-route-shelby-great-falls/ ), maybe I'll try riding that shuttle someday? I almost wonder if I should one way fly into Great Falls, then take that shuttle either north/south to Shelby, then do Amtrak's Empire Builder one way? I wish one still could take a train between Havre and Great Falls, like how I noticed passenger train service was obviously once available(and ran by Great Northern Railroad) in the pre-Amtrak days.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 9, 2019)

Neither Marshall ( Crew Change Point/ Now a Very Nice Unmanned Station with a Museum!) nor Mineola is a Smoke/ Fresh Air Stop.

If the Eagle is on time Texarkana is one ( brief/ stay Trainside) and Little Rock is @ O-Dark-Thirty. 

Going West Dallas is your first brief opportunirty( stay Trainside) after Texarkana and of course Ft Worth is a Long Stop.( #21 more so than #22).


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## dogbert617 (Jul 9, 2019)

Bob Dylan said:


> Neither Marshall ( Crew Change Point/ Now a Very Nice Unmanned Station with a Museum!) nor Mineola is a Smoke/ Fresh Air Stop.
> 
> If the Eagle is on time Texarkana is one ( brief/ stay Trainside) and Little Rock is @ O-Dark-Thirty.
> 
> Going West Dallas is your first brief opportunirty( stay Trainside) after Texarkana and of course Ft Worth is a Long Stop.( #21 more so than #22).



Thanks for clarifying, about Marshall and Mineola. Thought Texarkana was a smoke/stretch stop, but wasn't sure. I assumed Dallas and Fort Worth were such a stop too, but wasn't sure.


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## drdumont (Jul 10, 2019)

ISTR they will cut the "normal" stop time, and leave as soon as their station work is complete if the train is running late. The operating crews really would prefer to do away with them altogether, I'm sure. They have enough to do without herding cats. Most riders don't understand that they are fighting not just the clock, but freight movements and more in the multiple unknown equations of running a train.


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## dogbert617 (Jul 11, 2019)

drdumont said:


> ISTR they will cut the "normal" stop time, and leave as soon as their station work is complete if the train is running late. The operating crews really would prefer to do away with them altogether, I'm sure. They have enough to do without herding cats. Most riders don't understand that they are fighting not just the clock, but freight movements and more in the multiple unknown equations of running a train.



Doesn't bother me, if the train crews sometimes have to shorten or eliminate the shorter smoke/stretch stops on trains, at times. I.e. Williston, ND on the train I took going east, where looking back on that trip I should've briefly stepped off for a look going west, as it unfortunately wasn't a brief stop going east. My opinion is that I'm glad Amtrak allows passengers to have those brief smoke/stretch stops, but hey I could see how a few Amtrak employees may quietly not care(but for whatever reason don't express that opinion out loud, much) for the tradition of allowing passengers smoke/stretch stops.

Was only simply saying that part of myself quietly wishes I had gotten off the train at Williston going west on 7/27(as this wasn't a called stretch stop on 8/28 going back for me), to take a brief look on that platform and inside the station building. Like I did at the other stops(i.e. Shelby, Havre, Minot, etc). That's okay, since I have no doubt in the future I'll do another EB trip beyond Williston.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 12, 2019)

I don't seem to be able to edit the original post anymore, but Barstow, CA is now a regular smoke stop on the SWC. Kingman, AZ was not going westbound, although the train was severely delayed and I was not awake to check if it was eastbound. Also, Dodge City, KS was a smoke stop westbound, although it seemed to be a one time thing as something needed to be reset in the locomotive. I haven't ridden the route to know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dodge City is similar to Savannah and Columbia on the SS in that it is a middle of the night stop that can be used as a smoke stop at the crew's discretion.


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## dogbert617 (Jul 12, 2019)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I don't seem to be able to edit the original post anymore, but Barstow, CA is now a regular smoke stop on the SWC. Kingman, AZ was not going westbound, although the train was severely delayed and I was not awake to check if it was eastbound. Also, Dodge City, KS was a smoke stop westbound, although it seemed to be a one time thing as something needed to be reset in the locomotive. I haven't ridden the route to know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dodge City is similar to Savannah and Columbia on the SS in that it is a middle of the night stop that can be used as a smoke stop at the crew's discretion.



Interesting info to mention about the SW Chief, and thanks for mentioning that about Barstow and Dodge City. Also funny you mention about something in the locomotive needing to be reset, since I suspect that's what also occurred in Shelby, MT, when I rode the Empire Builder ultimately to Glacier NP last week. Due to positive train control/PTC requiring that for one of the 2 locomotives, per talking to an Amtrak employee.

I get the impression from the schedule that Shelby is typically only a very short smoke/stretch stop (5 minutes both ways), but that the locomotive issue relating to I assume PTC on one of the 2 locos, made it longer than usual. Like for I guess 10-15 minutes both ways?

And as for Williston, ND on EB, that I get the sense it's ONLY an optional smoke stop called at the discretion of the train crew, IF that train is running on time. As like I said it was a brief smoke stop going west, but wasn't a smoke stop going east. Similarly I get the sense that Shelby on certain EB trains may not be called as a smoke stop, if the train is running late. But funny enough in both directions Shelby somehow ended up as a longer than usual stop, due to the fact one of the 2 locomotives had to download info relating to positive train control that slowed the departure of the EB from Shelby, the 2 different days I rode through that town.


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## Lisa Pellegrino (Aug 26, 2019)

Hello @brianpmcdonnell17, and thank you for this list. Who at Amtrak might I speak with to ask about how we can get these sites to implement TerraCycle's free Cigarette Recycling Program?


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## me_little_me (Sep 3, 2019)

If Greenville, SC is a smoke stop on the Crescent, it's news to me. I've taken many trips from and to there and the train stops, people get off and on immediately and the train leaves.

Now it may be that when they had baggage service, one had enough time to get off and back on but no longer. And since it's always late northbound, they don't want to lose any more time.


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## dogbert617 (Sep 12, 2019)

me_little_me said:


> If Greenville, SC is a smoke stop on the Crescent, it's news to me. I've taken many trips from and to there and the train stops, people get off and on immediately and the train leaves.
> 
> Now it may be that when they had baggage service, one had enough time to get off and back on but no longer. And since it's always late northbound, they don't want to lose any more time.



Good question. That is a middle of the night/very early morning stop, so not sure on that one. I would guess Charlotte would be a longer stop, IF you're still up that late when the Crescent arrives into there. And I believe Greensboro, NC is supposed to also be a stretch stop? Am asking this, since soon I'll likely take the Crescent to do a short trip to Atlanta for a few days.

Anyway, I will take it that Greensboro and Greenville are shorter smoke stops that sometimes the crew will shorten or eliminate if the Crescent is running late, and that Charlotte is the main stretch stop north of Atlanta. A la what I noticed about Williston, on the Empire Builder. That Williston was called as a brief stretch stop when going west on the #7/27 Empire Builder, but wasn't on the eastbound #8/28 train due to it running late, and the crew wanting to make up time. Which I totally understood! I just only wish I had gotten off while the EB was in Williston going west, so I could've gotten a brief closer look at that station. No worries, since I have no doubt that one day, I'll again ride the EB west of North Dakota!


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## Seaboard92 (Sep 28, 2019)

Here is the Canadian’s stretch stop list. 
-Kamloops
-Jasper
-Edmonton 
-Biggar
-Saskatoon
-Melville
-Winnipeg
-Sioux Lookout
-Hornepayne 
-Capreol


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## dogbert617 (Oct 11, 2019)

Seaboard92 said:


> Here is the Canadian’s stretch stop list.
> -Kamloops
> -Jasper
> -Edmonton
> ...



When I was browsing VIA Rail's website, I have to say I like how one of the pages on their site mentions the stations that are smoke stops. Since Amtrak's schedule unfortunately doesn't mention the stations that are smoke stops or crew change points(which often end up being brief smoke/stretch stops), at all. At least thanks to this message board, I have picked up on all the stations that usually are such a stop, on long distance trains.

And of course to the average rider, the only smoke/stretch stops that seem obvious are ones with a separate arrival and departure time shown, on the schedule in the middle of a route(i.e.Toledo, Cleveland, Havre, MT, Whitefish, MT, Jacksonville, etc).


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jan 17, 2020)

Vermonter: 
Springfield, MA
New Haven, CT
New York, NY (Stretch stop only, non smoking)

There didn't seem to be an official policy enforced as none were announced and I only found out about these three by looking at the schedule and asking employees. New Haven seemed to be well-known as a stretch stop by other passengers, but I didn't see anyone else get off to stretch or smoke at Springfield or New York. Both trains I was on were delayed, so given the lack of official policy I wouldn't be surprised if the crew allowed other stops as well if the train was on schedule/early.


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## drdumont (Jan 17, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Neither Marshall ( Crew Change Point/ Now a Very Nice Unmanned Station with a Museum!) nor Mineola is a Smoke/ Fresh Air Stop.



Ft. Worth is a crew change, service stop, and can last up to an hour. However, comma, the fine folks at the Ft. Worth Intercontinental Multimodal Transportation Center and Otherwise Center of the Universe and Arbiter of All Things get highly urinified if you light up anywhere near the train. There is a 4 lane bus lane trackside, and you can stand in the middle of the road and light up, but I have had both "official" and civilians give me a ration.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 1, 2021)

On recent trips since my last post, I noticed a few more deviations from the stations listed here that I think are worth mentioning.

On a recent Sunset Limited trip, Lafayette, LA and Beaumont, TX were both stretch stops despite the train being multiple hours late.

On the Missouri River Runner, Sedalia, MO was used as a stretch stop instead of Jefferson City, MO when traveling westbound, but Jefferson City was the stretch stop when traveling eastbound.

On the Texas Eagle, Normal, IL was a stretch stop instead of Springfield, IL. However, the train was significantly early into Normal and Springfield was announced earlier as a stretch stop, so that may not be the normal procedure.

On recent trips, I have also noticed that the following stations were not used as stretch stops. Some or all of them likely continue to be used sometimes depending on delays and other factors:
Carbondale, IL
Milwaukee, WI
Greenville, SC
Columbia, SC
Rochester, NY


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## basketmaker (Nov 4, 2021)

BuffaloBoy said:


> One subtraction you should make is the Zephyr stop at Winterpark-Fraser. I have never been able to get off there for a fresh-air Marlboro Light, and I have traveled through there at 12 or 13 times.


Hmmm.... Done westbound 5 times and always had a nice break at Fraser. Even Winter Park back in the day. Done eastbound twice and I know one wasn't a smoke break as we were picking up about 350 pax standing in blizzard and required 4 spots. The other one I don't remember.


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## Maglev (Dec 19, 2021)

It is now possible to see the duration of stops on trains. Many stations with layovers did not show arrival and departure times in the old timetables. Now, on the Amtrak reservations page, with a "pretend" booking, one can click on "Details" and see arrival and departure times at all intermediate stations. Here is a listing for the Westbound _California Zephyr:_

Omaha 10:55p-11:05p
LIncoln 12:08a-12:14a
Denver 7:15a-8:05a
Glenwood Springs 1:46p-1:53p
Grand Junction 3:57p-4:10p
Salt Lake City 11:05p-11:30p
(Elko 3:01a-3:03a) probably can't get off here
Reno 8:25a-8:36a
(Roseville 12:55p-12:57p) ditto
Sacramento 2:13p-2:35p
(Davis 2:44p-2:46p) ditto
Martinez 3:26p-3:32p (maybe can't get off here)


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## basketmaker (Dec 19, 2021)

Maglev said:


> It is now possible to see the duration of stops on trains. Many stations with layovers did not show arrival and departure times in the old timetables. Now, on the Amtrak reservations page, with a "pretend" booking, one can click on "Details" and see arrival and departure times at all intermediate stations. Here is a listing for the Westbound _California Zephyr:_
> 
> Omaha 10:55p-11:05p
> LIncoln 12:08a-12:14a
> ...


I know every time I've done #5 there has always been an extended stop at the Fraser platform. 10-20 minutes each time? And usually the train empties for some mountain air.


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## Ziv (Dec 19, 2021)

I was riding the EB several years ago during the winter, and when we stopped at Havre it was so cold I asked the guy working at the station for a large Baltika #9 beer and a half kilo of smoked omul. He didn't find my request amusing.


Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Depending on where you are you can get far enough away from the smokers.
> 
> I'm a non smoker and I usually do find these to be refreshing and useful just to get out of the train and literally get fresh air and depending on the time of day, sunshine. I found getting water bottles at Albany to be useful and the general store at Grand Junction, CO useful.


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## danasgoodstuff (Dec 20, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Here is the Canadian’s stretch stop list.
> -Kamloops
> -Jasper
> -Edmonton
> ...


Weird that Biggar is the stretch stop between Edmonton and Saskatoon, it's quite close to Saskatoon.


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## GregL (Dec 20, 2021)

Maglev said:


> It is now possible to see the duration of stops on trains. Many stations with layovers did not show arrival and departure times in the old timetables. Now, on the Amtrak reservations page, with a "pretend" booking, one can click on "Details" and see arrival and departure times at all intermediate stations. Here is a listing for the Westbound _California Zephyr:_
> 
> Omaha 10:55p-11:05p
> LIncoln 12:08a-12:14a
> ...


Galesburg usually has about 5 minutes if the train is close to on time.


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## Acela150 (Dec 22, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Empire Builder:
> 
> Wishram, WA (Portland branch only)*
> 
> ...



I can't speak for 27/28, however. Williston, ND is at the discretion of the Conductor. Going west there is a few minutes of padding between Stanley and Williston. Milwaukee is no longer a stop where you can step off stretch your legs, grab some fresh air, smoke a cigarette or anything in between as I like to say. Going to Chicago we discharge and go.


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## Barb Stout (Dec 23, 2021)

Acela150 said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Empire Builder:
> ...


What do the asterisks signify?


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## basketmaker (Dec 24, 2021)

Here is a list of Stretch/Smoke Stops than I have gleaned from various sources for while. Not sure how up-to-date is these days.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 25, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> Here is a list of Stretch/Smoke Stops than I have gleaned from various sources for while. Not sure how up-to-date is these days. View attachment 26437


Add Beaumont,TX which is a Crew Change point for the Sunset Ltd.

If the Texas Eaglete is running Late, which it mostly is now Days, Texarkana is not a Smoke/Fresh Air Stop


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## basketmaker (Dec 25, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Add Beaumont,TX which is a Crew Change point for the Sunset Ltd.
> 
> If the Texas Eaglete is running Late, which it mostly is now Days, Texarkana is not a Smoke/Fresh Air Stop


Thanx for the update. I have seen many "long stops" are all dependent on delays and crews. Sometimes yes-sometimes no.


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## Maglev (Dec 25, 2021)

So I tried to look up the dwell time at Beaumont, Texas, and the "Details" function isn't working. For the _Sunset Limited _only, I at least get the start and end points. But when I click on "Details" for a switch to the _Texas Eagle _($5 less in a Roomette!), it shows no city names at all.


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## hlcteacher (Dec 25, 2021)

thank you


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## Cal (Dec 25, 2021)

Maglev said:


> So I tried to look up the dwell time at Beaumont, Texas, and the "Details" function isn't working. For the _Sunset Limited _only, I at least get the start and end points. But when I click on "Details" for a switch to the _Texas Eagle _($5 less in a Roomette!), it shows no city names at all.View attachment 26449
> View attachment 26450
> View attachment 26450


Center of Excellence once again showing it's excellence.


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## Tlcooper93 (Dec 27, 2021)

BuffaloBoy said:


> One subtraction you should make is the Zephyr stop at Winterpark-Fraser. I have never been able to get off there for a fresh-air Marlboro Light, and I have traveled through there at 12 or 13 times.


I’ve gotten off here. It was a smoke stop in 2020


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 19, 2022)

Fraser/Winter Park Colorado depends on how heavy the load is getting on or off, and is at the discretion of the crew. I've had one there and I had enough time to go all the way up to the lead locomotive and back.


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