# New AGR - will it be worthwhile?



## Puzzled (Oct 13, 2015)

There is a very large volume of discussion of the new AGR system both here and on FlyerTalk. It is difficult for me to understand financial matters at such deep levels with so many conflicting viewpoints on so many of the finer points.

Would someone knowlegeable please describe the new system, without regard to comparison to the old one, regarding what the advantages might be to an ocasional traveler - in coach and/or sleeper - using the new BOA credit card and/or purchasing points. Will it be worthwhile to be a member, or better to simply pay for tickets with the hope of getting low bucket prices whenever possible?

By occasional I mean maybe one coast to cost round-trip every year to 18 months, and one NEC trip BOS-Florida per year. Sleeper preferred, coach settled for some of the time.


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## jebr (Oct 13, 2015)

Under the new system you'll want to find low bucket as much as possible. Point redemption is based on the cost of the ticket, about 35 points per dollar.


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## Johanna (Oct 13, 2015)

Under the new system, points are worth approximately 2.9 cents each for most trips. The BOA credit card gives you 1 point per dollar for most spending, equivalent to a 2.9% rebate. That's better than most rewards credit cards out there - provided that you travel enough to use all the points that you accrue, which it sounds like you do. I'd say it's well worth it for you to join AGR and get one of the credit cards.


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## BCL (Oct 13, 2015)

It's a bit difficult to explain the benefits of the new system without at least some understanding of the quirks of the old system. However, the system makes sense to someone who understands a price based rewards system like most airlines have these days.

The points and cash system might help a bit to just get some discount off of travel. Also, this system might promote the use of points for short trips.


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## rrdude (Oct 13, 2015)

There is no reason NOT to join AGR. "Eventually" you will likely accumulate enough points for an overnight trip, in sleeper class. IMHO, the only REAL DEBATE with AGR 2.0 will be if it makes sense to "Buy" points, to use for redemption.

THAT will be a bit tricky, as the bucket prices (for buying) will always be fluctuating, so you may find a GREAT (buy) fare, find yourself 2,000 points "short", buy the points to top off, then 2 minutes later, come back to the reservations page, and find the bucket price has gone up......... it could happen.

Happens all the time on other sites with dynamic pricing.


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## jis (Oct 13, 2015)

Then again the price might come down again three days later. Things just become a little more unpredictable.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 13, 2015)

jis said:


> Then again the price might come down again three days later. Things just become a little more unpredictable.


But, unlike now, there will be a 10% Point Penalty if you Modify or Cancel an AGR Rez and 20% if less than 14 Days before Departure. ( Select Exec Exempt)


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## NW cannonball (Oct 14, 2015)

Puzzled said:


> There is a very large volume of discussion of the new AGR system both here and on FlyerTalk. It is difficult for me to understand financial matters at such deep levels with so many conflicting viewpoints on so many of the finer points.
> 
> Would someone knowlegeable please describe the new system, without regard to comparison to the old one, regarding what the advantages might be to an ocasional traveler - in coach and/or sleeper - using the new BOA credit card and/or purchasing points. Will it be worthwhile to be a member, or better to simply pay for tickets with the hope of getting low bucket prices whenever possible?
> 
> By occasional I mean maybe one coast to cost round-trip every year to 18 months, and one NEC trip BOS-Florida per year. Sleeper preferred, coach settled for some of the time.


 From all I can figure, the new points system is a pretty good deal. Sign up for sure, you get 2 points per dollar for spending on Amtrak, If you spend on Amtrak every year or two, the points won't expire. If or when you redeem points, they are worth more than a penny/dollar - some say 3 cents more or less. So that's a 6 pennies rebate. At whatever the Amtrak ticket price is when you redeem. Not bad, and signing up costs nothing, maybe there's a few hundred point bonus just for signing up, which is free.

And, if you never get enough points for a major free travel award, you can apply the points to reduce the cash cost of a trip. Sounds good?

If you get the BOA credit card, if you want it and qualify, which isn't difficult (or could be, depending),

then - your points never expire as long as you hold the card and pay on time, you get another 2-3 points on top of the 2 points/dollar you get from the basic program. (and various promotions and bonuses for buying from whatever retailers pay BOA to encourage their sales)

Signing up for the AGR points is a no-brainer. For the credit card? meh - depends on your financial situation.

Redeeming "points"? the estimated 3 cents per point is very good compared to other programs.

(There's a bunch of old-timers on here that used to get 6 or 8 cents per point on the old system, if they took the longest trip, wherever it went, Ignore that)

PS <edit>

Purchasing points is often a loser, depends -- wait until you have some points and figure it then.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 14, 2015)

Merely signing up for AGR is a no-brainer, even now. The issue worth debating is just how much effort you should put into accruing points. In the past AGR 1 was my primary means of booking travel with Amtrak. Today's AGR 2 is little more than a 2-3% rebate on paid travel. It's still there for the rare occasion when it helps, but for the most part I don't worry about it. Think of it as earning a free trip after thirty odd paid trips.


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## jis (Oct 14, 2015)

Dunno. Even in AGR 1 I did not earn most of the free trips from paid trips. They were mostly earned through the use of the credit card. It will be no different in AGR 2. On the Florida - Northeast trips mostly they come out even or better on redemption in AGR 2 for me, so not much changes there. It is the major multi day free adventures out west that will now require greater use of the credit card than before.


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## not quite so puzzled (Oct 14, 2015)

Thanks all for the useful replies. I didn't say in the op, but I have been an AGR member for some time and have got the new card.

I guess the gist is, it will still be a useful program if i don't carry any cc balance, but will need more attention to buckets.


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## me_little_me (Oct 15, 2015)

To me the biggest "advantages" to the new system are:

Trips that cross the old zone boundaries that did not involve much more than overnight travel were wasteful under the old system (e.g. Room from Prince, WV to Chicago) which cost 20K or 40K depending on whether it was roomette or BR). Under the new system, one doesn't "waste" as many points.

For those that haven't saved enough points for the dream trip, part can be used on points and part by cash (even without the future feature) by buying two tickets. For those that will never gain enough points for a dream trip, their points, even if small, can be used to partially offset cash price.

Under the old system, you worked to maximize your points by picking the longest 1 or 2 zone trip and paid cash to reach or from a zone boundary to your destination or from your starting point. Now you maximize your points by finding the cheapest day or route or class of service for the sections you can downgrade to coach to save a buck.

Overall, the new system is disadvantageous to me but one can mitigate some of those disadvantages with proper (and possibly tedious) planning.


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## BCL (Oct 15, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> Under the old system, you worked to maximize your points by picking the longest 1 or 2 zone trip and paid cash to reach or from a zone boundary to your destination or from your starting point. Now you maximize your points by finding the cheapest day or route or class of service for the sections you can downgrade to coach to save a buck.


That's the thing about the current way that AGR works. There's not much incentive to use points for a short trip through a single zone. Perhaps there are the special routes, but even then there exists an incentive to maximize the length of a redemption. For instance, I could redeem 1500 points on a short trip (maybe $18) similar to my commute trip, or I could try and get down to Southern California with a bus/train/bus combo that is priced at about $60.


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## NW cannonball (Oct 16, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> Overall, the new system is disadvantageous to me but one can mitigate some of those disadvantages with proper (and possibly tedious) planning.


<edit> I mistakenly referred to "upthread" discussions. that was wrong. the AGR subgroup is where you will see discussions on "tedious planning" on how to maximize benefits on AGR both new and old versions. There's a lot of details there. In any case, sign up for free and get a few percent rebate.

"Possibly tedious planning"

Right, like on any "rewards program". On any " rewards program" the deal is rigged against the buyer -- you need to do tedious planning to break better than even. Sheesh, that's "Marketing 101" (most signups never redeem, most "points" are devalued sooner or later)

(see S&H greenstamps for a half-century old example)

How much of the ancient up-thread discussion here was all about "tedious planning" on the *old *program?

Say* 99.5% - ? *

How much of the future discussion here will be about "tedious planning" to get the best deal on the new system? *About 99% *After the transition losers quit whining.


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## PaulM (Nov 14, 2015)

NW cannonball said:


> "Possibly tedious planning"
> 
> Right, like on any "rewards program". On any " rewards program" the deal is rigged against the buyer -- you need to do tedious planning to break better than even. Sheesh, that's "Marketing 101" (most signups never redeem, most "points" are devalued sooner or later)
> 
> ...


The only tedious planning with the new system will be the same as planning for a paid trip under the old or new system. If I'm flexible, what is the best date to go? If not flexible, can I afford it or is it worth it?

Under the new system, there's no planning to maximize points and no deciding whether to spend points or save them for something bigger. A point is worth approximately 2.9 cents whether you use it today or next year, for a short trip or a rail fan excursion. According to the time value of money (such as it is with 0% savings rates), a point would be move valuable today than next year.


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## dlagrua (Nov 28, 2015)

Its worth joining AGR and having the BOA CC. The new system does cut down on value but as stated previously it is advantaegous for shorter trips that pass over the old zone lines.


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## neroden (Nov 30, 2015)

You'll have to decide for yourself whether the "free points" from the BOA card are worth the potential hassle of dealing with BOA.

It's definitely a good deal to join AGR -- even if you just spend the points as fast as you get them.


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