# Menu Changes (October 2017)



## seat38a (Oct 2, 2017)

Not sure if I'm late to the party but it seems the menu's have changed. I'm really liking the new dessert options! Pecan tart, pumpkin cheesecake, chocolate raspberry tart, and a cheese plate.


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## pennyk (Oct 2, 2017)

There were 4 of us at the table for lunch and we all had the raspberry chocolate tart. I believe that we all cleaned our plates.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 2, 2017)

Anything pumpkin is good! And the tart sounds lovely! 

Does anyone have a link to the new menus? (Amtrak's list of menus still seems to have the old one as of now.)


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## Steve4031 (Oct 2, 2017)

Penny, do they still have those chicken enchiladas or whatever that was at lunch?

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## seat38a (Oct 2, 2017)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Anything pumpkin is good! And the tart sounds lovely!
> 
> Does anyone have a link to the new menus? (Amtrak's list of menus still seems to have the old one as of now.)


I got the info through http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/Some of the main dishes such as shrimp biryani sounds interesting.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 2, 2017)

Thanks! (I'm back now--I was over at the food facts page for a while staring in fascination at how pretty that chocolate raspberry tart looks!  )


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## pennyk (Oct 2, 2017)

Steve4031 said:


> Penny, do they still have those chicken enchiladas or whatever that was at lunch?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


Unfortunately, they do not have the chicken quesidillas for lunch any more. They have mussels, which I do not eat. I had a burger for lunch today.


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## pennyk (Oct 2, 2017)

The pumpkin dessert is seasonal and it was not available on our train today.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 2, 2017)

Thx penny. I’ll skip mussels too.

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## LookingGlassTie (Oct 2, 2017)

I'm a member of a few Amtrak Facebook groups and on one of them, somebody posted a photo of the updated menu and said that it's for all routes. Is that true?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 2, 2017)

LookingGlassTie said:


> I'm a member of a few Amtrak Facebook groups and on one of them, somebody posted a photo of the updated menu and said that it's for all routes. Is that true?


Unfortunately yes, as most trains now share a standardized menu. But at least on paper the newest offerings look interesting....


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## tommylicious (Oct 3, 2017)

Pictures people!


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2017)

The Chilaquiles for Lunch sounds interesting, as does the Salmon being back for Dinner.

The dinner specials might be worth a try for diversity on traveler type trips!


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 3, 2017)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> LookingGlassTie said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody posted a photo of the updated menu and said that it's for all routes. Is that true?
> ...


At this point nearly every route and direction has the same generic menu with little thought or concern for repeat travelers. When it comes to breakfast and lunch there's literally nothing I find appealing or appetizing anymore. Really disappointing to anyone who isn't big on scrambled eggs and precooked frozen burger patties. I've visited tiny food trucks with more options and higher quality food than this. Salads are fine if they're big and plentiful, but these smaller examples with cold proteins are nothing to get excited about.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 3, 2017)

Mussels in white wine is my catnip.


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## seat38a (Oct 3, 2017)

With the new fruit nuts and cheese plate, I do hope they offer it for sale during PPC wine tasting event. It looks 100 times better than the boxed stuff sold in the cafe car.


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## texline (Oct 3, 2017)

From Facebook

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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 3, 2017)

This menu looks really good actually. Perhaps they listened to customers? The dinner menu offers a great seafood choice (salmon), plus a pasta that can be served with or without meat, plus a vegan friendly pasta.

(I'm not vegan but I eat mostly a pescitarian diet and appreciate when various diets are considered).

It seems odd that Quesadillas would be offered for breakfast and not lunch though.


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## keelhauled (Oct 3, 2017)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It seems odd that Quesadillas would be offered for breakfast and not lunch though.


I expect the breakfast ones are a pre-made package with the eggs and sauce. Can't really separate it apart for lunch.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 3, 2017)

crescent-zephyr said:


> This menu looks really good actually. Perhaps they listened to customers? The dinner menu offers a great seafood choice (salmon), plus a pasta that can be served with or without meat, plus a vegan friendly pasta. (I'm not vegan but I eat mostly a pescitarian diet and appreciate when various diets are considered). It seems odd that Quesadillas would be offered for breakfast and not lunch though.


On the one hand I think they're honestly trying to do the best they can with what they have available to them, at least in the case of the dinner menu. On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I saw a $40 surf & turf entree that featured a shredded seafood cake as the surf. I also don't see where the pasta is ever offered with actual meat; looks to be a vegan only plate for some reason. Where I come from it seems odd to call tortillas and cheese a quesadilla unless it's made with _pico de gallo,_ but I suppose that's probably beyond Amtrak's practical abilities at this point.


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## igor (Oct 3, 2017)

You can now get the continental breakfast for lunch? That's odd.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 3, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > This menu looks really good actually. Perhaps they listened to customers? The dinner menu offers a great seafood choice (salmon), plus a pasta that can be served with or without meat, plus a vegan friendly pasta. (I'm not vegan but I eat mostly a pescitarian diet and appreciate when various diets are considered). It seems odd that Quesadillas would be offered for breakfast and not lunch though.
> ...


Sorry.. I read the menu pretty quick and thought the Butternut Squash Risotto was a pasta dish.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 3, 2017)

igor said:


> You can now get the continental breakfast for lunch? That's odd.


I'll be willing to bet that most crews won't serve it at lunch time anyways.


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## PVD (Oct 3, 2017)

That's the express lunch, not the regular lunch. I believe that is unique to the CL heading towards DC


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 3, 2017)

Some interesting cooking notes from the Amtrak Food Facts -

Dinner -

Steak - "Cooked to Order"

Salmon Filet - "single packed & ready to thaw and cook, served with a side sauce. Note that some diners may request their salmon to be cooked medium rare or medium. When that is the passenger request, the salmon should be cooked to their preference, otherwise the salmon should be cooked to medium/medium well – not to exceed 145 degree

Butternut Squash Risotto - "it is produced by Carla’s pasta, who has adapted the classic recipe to steam bag technology with great results"

Chicken Breast - "Skin on thyme scented fully cooked (via sous-vide) chicken breast, seasoned with salt & pepper, cooked via Sous-vide technology"

Lunch -

Mussels - " steam, vacuum packed & blast frozen in a single serve 16 oz pouch. Ultra-convenient with extraordinary texture & flavor should make this a passenger & crew favorite. Do not thaw, cook from frozen to order only!"

Romaine Salad with Goat Cheese - "A fresh, made on board entrée salad"

Breakfast -

Scrambled Eggs - " scrambled to order"

Pancakes - "griddled to order"

Omelet - "A freshly made pasteurized cage-free, three egg omelet "


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## PVD (Oct 3, 2017)

I actually like the new selections, but was a bit surprised ( I know I shouldn't be) by the sodium content, even on some of the lower calorie/lower fat entrees.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 3, 2017)

I’ll be on 6 Saturday morning. I’ll take a picture of that menu and post it to this thread if nobody else has done it before then.

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## jannie (Oct 3, 2017)

It seems like the french toast selection - for breakfast is gone - I really liked that one. and I will NOT be trying the Mussels had them once at a restaurant - one time too many!

Hope they bring back the french toast for breakfast


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2017)

jannie said:


> It seems like the french toast selection - for breakfast is gone - I really liked that one. and I will NOT be trying the Mussels had them once at a restaurant - one time too many!
> 
> Hope they bring back the french toast for breakfast


Amtrak rotates the Menu between French Toast and Pancakes. IMO neither is particularly good, but OK with Butter and Syrup. ( the French Toast Sticks served on the Cardinal are pretty bad in most people's opinion.)


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## PVD (Oct 3, 2017)

CL, LSL, SWC, and Card show French Toast not Pancakes. They claim to be a new improved version, but I'll withhold judgement until I try them next month.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 3, 2017)

Bob Dylan said:


> jannie said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like the french toast selection - for breakfast is gone - I really liked that one. and I will NOT be trying the Mussels had them once at a restaurant - one time too many! Hope they bring back the french toast for breakfast
> ...


There was a time when the French Toast was actually pretty good. Since then it has varied from okay to bad and back again. I've never found the pancakes to be appetizing, with or without butter/syrup/jam. Maybe pancakes simply don't mix with train kitchens?


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## PVD (Oct 3, 2017)

I'll report on the "new version" when I travel next month. I do carry a tiny bottle of real maple syrup when I travel the real deal always helps.....


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## Tennessee Traveler (Oct 3, 2017)

I am traveling the Southwest Chief tomorrow. According to the menus on Amtrak.com, the SWC menu has not been updated. I'll see if this is just a misprint or if they have the updated menu tomorrow.


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## PVD (Oct 3, 2017)

It looks like newer menus have made it to "food facts" but not the menu page..... but awaiting your report with the actual story


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## Maverickstation (Oct 4, 2017)

PVD said:


> I actually like the new selections, but was a bit surprised ( I know I shouldn't be) by the sodium content, even on some of the lower calorie/lower fat entrees.


Yes sodium counts are very high, in particular with the entrees that are pre-made and then reheated on board.

As someone who has to watch sodium in take like a hawk, I have to chose very carefully.

The short ribs dinner special packs in at 100% of your recommended sodium in take for a full day.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-39.pdf

Ken


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## PVD (Oct 4, 2017)

There are items that are going to be high in sodium where you expect it. When it is over the top in an item that could probably be prepared with considerably less, that's what bothers me.


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## desertflyer (Oct 4, 2017)

I just took the TE DAL-LAX and the Starlight LAX-OAK. On Each train, it was the crew's first trip preparing the menu.

I liked the Chilaquiles. They were pretty spicy one time, but just medium heat the other time. A bit chewy, but the flavors were pretty good for Amtrak.

The salmon was really overcooked.

The sea & land is now a crab cake and steak. I liked it okay, although it reminds me of something you'd get at an Applebee's (I imagine, never been to one). It's almost too much food to consume in a single sitting.

The risotto was just so-so. Without the chicken it would be a small serving.

A seatmate had the mussels and said they were really good. I think it needs another side or something since it's just a big bowl of mussels with sauce.

The desserts were good. The chocolate and raspberry was really rich. No dining car had the pumpkin version of the cheesecake, unfortunately. The pecan tart is also so rich that you could share it between two people. I had a lemon tart which was only offered in the PPC and it was very tart - I really enjoyed it, probably my favorite dessert of the trip. Only in the PPC did they bother to plate the cheesecake and it made the dish much more appealing. I wish they'd bring back some fruit sauce for the cheesecake. Now there is also a dab of whip cream on every dessert (depending on the crew).

Please excuse my while I go for a long bike ride to work off all of those calories.


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## seat38a (Oct 4, 2017)

desertflyer said:


> I just took the TE DAL-LAX and the Starlight LAX-OAK. On Each train, it was the crew's first trip preparing the menu.
> 
> I liked the Chilaquiles. They were pretty spicy one time, but just medium heat the other time. A bit chewy, but the flavors were pretty good for Amtrak.
> 
> ...


Hopefully you will have a trip report with pictures coming


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## willem (Oct 4, 2017)

PVD said:


> There are items that are going to be high in sodium where you expect it. When it is over the top in an item that could probably be prepared with considerably less, that's what bothers me.


It is simple for someone who wants a saltier taste to add salt. In any practical sense, it is impossible for someone to remove salt from a prepared meal. It seems obvious that meals should be prepared with no added salt at all.


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## PVD (Oct 4, 2017)

Some items don't cook properly without some salt, adding it later doesn't cut it, it isn't just about saltier taste. Cooking without any added salt will not work. A bigger problem are the items that don't taste salty but have lots of salt. Some foods have fairly high salt content by themselves without adding it.


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## desertflyer (Oct 5, 2017)

seat38a said:


> Hopefully you will have a trip report with pictures coming


Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures this last trip. I'm sure someone else will deliver.


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## ABQFloridian (Oct 6, 2017)

desertflyer said:


> A seatmate had the mussels and said they were really good. I think it needs another side or something since it's just a big bowl of mussels with sauce.


Was there NOT warm bread?! Amtrak food facts mentioned warm bread in the description, and I was already imagining my glorious satiation as I sopped up ounce upon ounce of golden, garlicky broth with piles of warm crusty bread.

Well maybe not piles, because it's Amtrak, but maybe a couple of pieces.

I'll be heartbroken if there was no bread.


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## seat38a (Oct 6, 2017)

ABQFloridian said:


> desertflyer said:
> 
> 
> > A seatmate had the mussels and said they were really good. I think it needs another side or something since it's just a big bowl of mussels with sauce.
> ...


Most likely just the standard dinner rolls they serve on the train.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 6, 2017)

ABQFloridian said:


> desertflyer said:
> 
> 
> > A seatmate had the mussels and said they were really good. I think it needs another side or something since it's just a big bowl of mussels with sauce.
> ...


I like the cut of your jib. :lol:


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## willem (Oct 6, 2017)

PVD said:


> Some items don't cook properly without some salt, adding it later doesn't cut it, it isn't just about saltier taste. Cooking without any added salt will not work.


I did not know that. Thanks for the education.

With no evidence to support my conclusion, I still believe there is way more salt than necessary in most foods.


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## willem (Oct 6, 2017)

ABQFloridian said:


> Was there NOT warm bread?!


On some trains, there is warm bread with supper, but it has been years since I've had a warm dinner roll on the Empire Builder. It always surprises me that the dining car staff does not warm the bread before bringing it to the table.


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## PVD (Oct 6, 2017)

There is plenty of evidence to support the notion that there is too much salt in many prepared foods. When companies have put there minds to it, major reductions in sodium have been achieved without killing taste. Not always possible, but certainly achievable in many cases. People who need to avoid sodium content absolutely need to read labels, lots of foods don't taste salty at all, but are loaded with it.


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## neroden (Oct 6, 2017)

I guess it's time for me to send that certified letter to Mr. Anderson about Amtrak's lack of ingredients lists. All this "new food", still no idea whether I can eat any of it.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 7, 2017)

As promised, photos of all sections of the menu on amtrak 6 Emy-chi departing 10/7. 





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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 7, 2017)

Anyone have the new Parlor Car lunch menu? Or is it somewhere here and I missed it? Thanks  .


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## illinoisandy (Oct 7, 2017)

Just a one riders insight into new menu experience, I rode 421 the other day with the new menu on both Eagle and Sunset.

The Romaine Salad was refreshing and good in my experience, only problem was our chef didn't thaw the "little pucks" of goat cheese! When talking to him about this, he explained they would get mushy if thawed. Then on Sunset it looked like the chef had thawed and cut up the cheese into small slices.

One followed the rules and it didn't work, one bent the rules and it looked to work, he'll probably get written up for doing it right.

The Breakfast Special #1 scrambled eggs on a quesadillas was decedent for Amtrak, par for the real world.

The Dinner special #2 Shrimp Biryani was a reasonable quality and taste frozen dinner with a good kick to it, which is better than a bland low quality frozen dinner but is still a frozen dinner at heart. I'm not sure based on the demographic of the dinning car it will work but I give them credit for trying this.

The Raspberry Tart with real whip cream, was the goods, had it both nights with dinner, best dessert I've had on Amtrak in a long time.

I have always thought the menu was too bland, so it was refreshing to see some new items with some kick. With the more recent cuts the menu had just become bad, this is a small but good step in the right direction.


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## zepherdude (Oct 7, 2017)

PVD said:


> There is plenty of evidence to support the notion that there is too much salt in many prepared foods. When companies have put there minds to it, major reductions in sodium have been achieved without killing taste. Not always possible, but certainly achievable in many cases. People who need to avoid sodium content absolutely need to read labels, lots of foods don't taste salty at all, but are loaded with it.


I am a survivor of 2 heart attacks, death and a heart transplant. The first thing they teach one in heart healthy nutrition school, is not to eat prepared frozen meals. Loaded with salt. TV dinners, frozen chicken, Hungry Man, Amtrak Dinners, heavy with salt. Salisbury steak was mentioned too. My freezer is all but empty as I only do fresh and free range and very little red meat. More work, but hey, I am alive. I cut out the carbs too and lost 110 pounds. I do know that few Amtrak entrees are not made on board.


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## Dovecote (Oct 7, 2017)

Although a bit of topic, I was on the LSL a few weeks ago. I was surprised that the side garden salad was discontinued and plastic utensils are now used for the meals. How long has this been going on?


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 7, 2017)

Dovecote said:


> Although a bit of topic, I was on the LSL a few weeks ago. I was surprised that the side garden salad was discontinued and plastic utensils are now used for the meals. How long has this been going on?


Maybe because the LSL has the diner lite? The side salad was on at least one of the 3 trains I was on the past 1-1/2 weeks (though I declined it). And we had metal utensils for at least some of the meals.


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## pennyk (Oct 7, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Dovecote said:
> 
> 
> > Although a bit of topic, I was on the LSL a few weeks ago. I was surprised that the side garden salad was discontinued and plastic utensils are now used for the meals. How long has this been going on?
> ...


I was on the LSL a couple of weeks ago and there was no side salad and plastic utensils. As Betty mentioned, I believe the lack of salad and use of plastic utensils is due to the fact that the LSL does not currently have a full diner. I have been on 5 other LD trains (with full diners) in the last couple of weeks and side salads were always offered and plastic utensils were not.


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## Anderson (Oct 9, 2017)

The new Land & Sea item does not do anything for me. The "straight" steak and shrimp item was good, but the idea of a "miscellaneous seafood cake" doesn't do anything for me (whereas I'd have happily gone for a straight crabcake).

With that being said, the Shrimp Briyani (sp?), salmon, and risotto all look like they're worth a look...but with respect to whomever pulled this together? As a regular sleeper passenger, you've just _downsold_ me by $20/trip.


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## Maverickstation (Oct 9, 2017)

I gave the mussels an A for creativity, but they have to be handled very carefully, and this case the instructions are pretty clear that the pre-cooked, package has be

"cooked" from frozen, I would assume that "cooking" means a water bath.

I like the note about this lunch entree becoming a passenger and crew favorite. Does the dining car staff have a "family meal" before the start of service ??

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-17.pdf

Ken


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## dlagrua (Oct 10, 2017)

As for the food choices, we were on four Amtrak LD trips last year and not one had the "ACAT Inspired Special" . We always took the first dinner seating and still no specials. Has anyone here ever been served one of these dishes or is the addition of it to the menu just taking up space? It says "limited availability" but is was so limited it wasn't available.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 10, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> As for the food choices, we were on four Amtrak LD trips last year and not one had the "ACAT Inspired Special" . We always took the first dinner seating and still no specials. Has anyone here ever been served one of these dishes or is the addition of it to the menu just taking up space? It says "limited availability" but is was so limited it wasn't available.


I had the same expierence, they were always "out" of the specials or they had been "discontinued" according to the LSA.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 10, 2017)

I wonder what the staff has for dinner?


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 10, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I wonder what the staff has for dinner?


I was thinking the exact same thing. :lol:


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## TinCan782 (Oct 10, 2017)

Bob Dylan said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > As for the food choices, we were on four Amtrak LD trips last year and not one had the "ACAT Inspired Special" . We always took the first dinner seating and still no specials. Has anyone here ever been served one of these dishes or is the addition of it to the menu just taking up space? It says "limited availability" but is was so limited it wasn't available.
> ...


Last July on the Coast Starlight, Empire Builder and Calif Zephyr they had one of the three at the most, quite often none of the three. Was told they rotate among the three.


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## Ryan (Oct 10, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what the staff has for dinner?
> ...


The specials.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 11, 2017)

Anderson said:


> The new Land & Sea item does not do anything for me. The "straight" steak and shrimp item was good, but the idea of a "miscellaneous seafood cake" doesn't do anything for me (whereas I'd have happily gone for a straight crabcake).
> 
> With that being said, the Shrimp Briyani (sp?), salmon, and risotto all look like they're worth a look...but with respect to whomever pulled this together? As a regular sleeper passenger, you've just _downsold_ me by $20/trip.


"miscellaneous seafood cake" = CAT FOOD!


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 11, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I wonder what the staff has for dinner?


On the EB, I saw one of the SCA eating Macaroni and Cheese. The food looked good.


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## niemi24s (Oct 11, 2017)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> "miscellaneous seafood cake" = CAT FOOD!


Have you actually put any in your mouth, or are you just running off at the same?

Redacted - please delete.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 13, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > "miscellaneous seafood cake" = CAT FOOD!
> ...


I HAVE had the crab cakes before' so retract your smart ass remark!


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## Ryan (Oct 13, 2017)

In other words, “no, I haven’t had the seafood cake”.


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## benale (Oct 13, 2017)

The burger for lunch is almost $13 and is very average For that price you should have a choice of how you want it done. Way overpriced. Had the mussels yesterday. Just a bowl of mussels. Not even any bread or sides. Again at $14 overpriced. Unless I am in a sleeper I don't eat in the dining car,except for breakfast. Still more than what you would pay in a regular restaurant but decent.

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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 13, 2017)

You have unreasonable pricing expectations.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 13, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> You have unreasonable pricing expectations.


Amtrak doesn't have to lower their prices to make people happy. They can simply serve a burger that is _actually worth_ $13. Instead they sell a precooked frozen reheated hockey puck for $13. I've visited sports stadiums that did a better job of offering value for money than Amtrak's dining car.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 13, 2017)

Point taken.


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## benale (Oct 13, 2017)

Not really. If you are going to pay $13 for a basic hamburger,ar least they could cook it to order. On the other hand the steak is delicious and is always done the way you like it. Of course prices will be higher on Amteak,but with the higher prices better quality is expected.

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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 13, 2017)

I think the breakfast and dinner choices are good, but there's nothing I like on the new lunch menu. I asked for the kids' menu items twice and was given them with no quarrel. The mac and cheese was blah (basic children's food out a box), but the hot dog was quite good.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Oct 13, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > You have unreasonable pricing expectations.
> ...


If a burger is worth $13, Amtrak will charge you at least $20. You're on a train and a captive audience. It's simple economics. Expecting good value for the price on a train is idiotic. Why should they? What are you going to do, take another company's train? Oh wait. Take Greyhound? Have their food. Oh wait.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 13, 2017)

I think the diner veggie burger is pretty good for the price. I can't speak for the regular burger.


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## niemi24s (Oct 13, 2017)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> niemi24s said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


Consider it done. Glad to hear your assessment was based on actual tasting.


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## jebr (Oct 13, 2017)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13. There's a lot of restaurants that sell a decent $6-$8 burger at a static location (Five Guys, Smashburger, etc.) The burger in the diner tastes pretty much the same as the burger in the cafe car, in my opinion. The cafe car burger is obviously a heat and eat, and if the diner car burger tastes the same...

And if the food is poor enough without options, people will drive, take the bus, or fly and not have to worry about on-board food. The number of people who will only take a train, while not zero, is quite small, and Amtrak isn't going to grow just with that truly captive audience. I don't think most people are expecting an amazing value for the money, but people want to be able to eat something more than heat-and-eat for their hamburger in a diner car that tries to push itself as a somewhat nice place to eat in.


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## benale (Oct 13, 2017)

I remember when the burger in the dining car was quite good. I was disappointed in the burger I had yesterday. Burger Kings Whopper tasted better at nine dollars less. As mentioned,if you are going to charge $13 for a hamburger in the dining car on Amtrak, a great dining experience,at least make the

burger one step above fast food

Judging by the burger I had yesterday it was on the same level as McDonalds,Burger King,Wendys,etc.

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## pennyk (Oct 13, 2017)

benale said:


> I remember when the burger in the dining car was quite good. I was disappointed in the burger I had yesterday. Burger Kings Whopper tasted better at nine dollars less. As mentioned,if you are going to charge $13 for a hamburger in the dining car on Amtrak, a great dining experience,at least make the
> 
> burger one step above fast food
> 
> ...


I may be easier to please. The burger I had a lunch today in the dining car was perfectly fine, and much better than what one could get at a fast food restaurnt. My tablemate thought the same.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 13, 2017)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I think the breakfast and dinner choices are good, but there's nothing I like on the new lunch menu. I asked for the kids' menu items twice and was given them with no quarrel. The mac and cheese was blah (basic children's food out a box), but the hot dog was quite good.


I've not had the opportunity to try the new menus, but I agree with your opinion about both the Breakfast and Dinner Menus then as well as with the new published ones. Plenty of enjoyable choices for me, but the Lunch menu then--and still with the new menu--is lacking as far as I am concerned. I had the burger both days during my EB trip and I was pleased with what I was served. I'd appreciate something more "creative" than "Kettle Chips", however. I had considered ordering the Mac & Cheese once, but didn't.


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## tommylicious (Oct 13, 2017)

OK now...what exactly is a "griddle seared shellfish cake" ? Ground up shrimp eyes and tails mixed in with various Monsanto-engineered synthetic bonding agents? Why not just the damn shrimp like before ?!?! Big Food killing the population.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 13, 2017)

The burger I had on 6 last Saturday was missing something. Not sure what it was but it was not as good as ones I had even a year or two back. I am also a bit bored by the burger to. I like the bacon and cheese quesadillas on the last menu. The mussels on this menu. The hot dog looked good when another pax ordered it. The bun was toasted.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Ryan (Oct 13, 2017)

jebr said:


> Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13.


One could argue the alternative - by definition, the burger is worth $13 for as long as people to continue to pay for it.

All this burger talk is making we wish that I'd grabbed a second In-n-Out while I was there for lunch. Would go nicely as I sit in the barren wasteland that is ONT airport.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 13, 2017)

Ryan said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > Except the burger arguably isn't worth an inflated $13.
> ...


That's the problem with gauging the genuine desires of a captive audience. There's not much opportunity for meaningful choices or actionable feedback so the ability to draw useful conclusions is limited.

If you travel in a sleeper then in most cases you're out the money either way so I'd imagine many people figure they might as well order something, even if when it's not what they really want. Some people may view the sleeper meals as a credit rather than a debit but the emotional response to the meal clock is likely to be the same. Either you use it or lose it.

If we ignore kids meals and breakfast options, then burgers and salads now represent 80% of the available lunch meals on the standardized national menu. In the case of the limited express menu, burgers and salad now represent a full 100% of the non-breakfast lunch meals for adults. We're talking (nearly) every long distance train, every single day, in both directions, for months on end. It's almost like Amtrak is daring us to stop eating.

Some people would probably put up with almost any food just for the experience and atmosphere. Others have mentioned they still enjoy the meals exactly as offered. But for me the Amtrak dining experience generally begins to fall apart the moment I start paying attention to whatever I'm actually eating.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Oct 13, 2017)

niemi24s said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > niemi24s said:
> ...


Thank you  I found them to be way to "fishy" and coarse in texture; no where near a good Maryland Crab Cake.


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## SarahZ (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm kind of interested in the salad offered at lunch. Breakfast is always so heavy that I'm usually not in the mood to shove a burger or meatballs down on top of that, so having a salad (with chicken) is a good compromise.

I'll report back after my trip.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Oct 14, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > jebr said:
> ...


And this is why I as a single person am priced out of sleepers. I'm essentially paying for two people's meals. Roomettes are really priced for couples not for single people.


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## Ryan (Oct 14, 2017)

I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 14, 2017)

Lets remember that the fully allocated cost of that burger to Amtrak is ~ $10; that includes your well paid (please dont turn this into a union bashing thread!) railroad employees, dining car maintenance, and costs of pulling the car.

Its a bit of a misleading pricing arguement to base decisions on fully allocated costs, but if that burger does cost $10 to put on your plate, does that really mean Amtrak is gouging you?

Five Guys sucks, but there are good burger restaurants who can put a decent burger on your plate for $8. But that is a stationary restaurant, not requiring FRA inspections, vehicle maintenance, Federal food scrutiny from the FDA, union railroad employees, and wear and tear on the cooking equipment due to it not being stationary.

We need to consider that boost in costs, as well as a basic fair price premium for captivity. Proper business practice means charging what you can while producing satisfied customers- granting that this discussion suggests that the latter is not fully being met.


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## George K (Oct 14, 2017)

Are any of the menus available with Amtrak's new and improved website? I can't seem to find them.


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## jimmrl (Oct 14, 2017)

tommylicious said:


> OK now...what exactly is a "griddle seared shellfish cake" ? Ground up shrimp eyes and tails mixed in with various Monsanto-engineered synthetic bonding agents? Why not just the damn shrimp like before ?!?! Big Food killing the population.


They were the best seafood cakes I have ever had. They are the only seafood cakes I have ever had. Did they hold up to a really good crab cake, no, but I have had crab cakes worse than the seafood cake Amtrak served me last night.

Overall three people at my table had them and we were all surprised by them. Mostly because we expected them to be bad and they were not.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## zephyr17 (Oct 16, 2017)

Ryan said:


> I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.


Well, speaking as one who was present when they first started this in the 80's, you could really see it then. When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.

I also understand at least part of the reason it was done was to ensure more steady cash flow for the diners to reduce some of the diner losses.

Before, I usually did not eat three full meals in the diner. After I always do, especially because I know I am paying for them twice.


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## AmtrakLKL (Oct 16, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Lets remember that the fully allocated cost of that burger to Amtrak is ~ $10; that includes your well paid (please dont turn this into a union bashing thread!) railroad employees, dining car maintenance, and costs of pulling the car.


I'm fairly certain the fully allocated cost of that burger significantly exceeds $13 when you factor in the well paid railroad employees, dining car maintenance and overhaul, commissary costs (employees, warehouses and food), fuel and mileage costs.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 16, 2017)

It doesnt, actually. I did the math somewhere else on this forum, years ago. Its right around $8 for everything but the food per meal, of the car is used at 85% capacity with a one hour meal throughput, based on- oh hell, I dont remember the precise assumptions for service length and so on, but I remember most of the more knowledgeable agreeing with my premises, and I did really extensive research to come up with the number. $2 should cover that burger, bun, and the potatoe chips. When I did the numbers, salad was still included, as was iced tea, but that stuff had de minimus costing.


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## willem (Oct 17, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> [...] the included meals (they are NOT complementary)[...]


I suppose others might disagree, but I consider the included meals to be complementary. What they are not is complimentary.


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## Ryan (Oct 17, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I’m not sure why you harbor the mistaken belief that a price on the menu has anything to do with the price of a sleeper ticket.
> ...


That’s my point. The 80’s were a long time ago. Fares are set based on what the market will bear. Internal funds transfers don’t have anything to do with how much is charged for a ticket.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 17, 2017)

Ryan said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Fares are set based on internal variables and algorithms that are hidden to us. It would take a substantial amount of time and money to determine how close Amtrak prices match what the market can actually bear. Rather than trying to extrapolate today's pricing from 1980's decisions or making claims about opaque pricing systems we have no way of verifying, why not simply compare and contrast the Silver Star and Silver Meteor today? It may not be perfect but it would seem to give us our best guess as to what Amtrak considers their dining car meals to actually be worth today.


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## KmH (Oct 17, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.


I agree the dining car meals are not complimentary.

It seems obvious that sleeper passengers pay for dining car meals in advance, as part of the price for a sleeper berth.

It also seems those that travel in a Roomette _by themselves_ are paying in advance for meals for 2 people too.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 17, 2017)

KmH said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > When the introduced the included meals (they are NOT complementary), they increased the prices for the sleepers by almost exactly the amount that would cover meals for 2 for the duration of the trip. How that has played out since, I can't speak to, but when they first did it, it was glaringly obvious to anyone doing the arithmetic.
> ...


I know this has been debated back and forth a few times here, but are the number of means included now the typical number of occupants, or the max number of occupants? For example, is a Roomette meals for 2, or meals for 3? Bedroom meals for 4?

For max, I would take that to mean seating capacity, not sleeping, and for younger people, not full size grown up people. That's because regardless of age, they are offered an adult meal in the dinning car.


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## Chey (Oct 17, 2017)

George K said:


> Are any of the menus available with Amtrak's new and improved website? I can't seem to find them.


If you're still looking for them:

home page > Destinations > See All Routes > (Select the route you're interested in) > scroll down to Features & Amenities

Menu will be in the list on the left


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## Ryan (Oct 17, 2017)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I know this has been debated back and forth a few times here, but are the number of means included now the typical number of occupants, or the max number of occupants? For example, is a Roomette meals for 2, or meals for 3? Bedroom meals for 4?
> 
> For max, I would take that to mean seating capacity, not sleeping, and for younger people, not full size grown up people. That's because regardless of age, they are offered an adult meal in the dinning car.


It is now and always has been up to the max occupancy of the room.


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## SarahZ (Oct 17, 2017)

I was on the Southwest Chief a few days ago and tried a couple of different things.

The steak comes with a Bearnaise sauce now, which I prefer to the mushroom sauce they used to serve. I wanted to put that Bearnaise sauce on _everything_. It was so good I had it both nights, even though I was tempted to try the salmon.

They ran out of chilaquiles, so I had the veggie burger for lunch. While that isn't a new item, it was new to me. I added cheddar cheese to it, and it was delicious! It's become one of my favorite Amtrak food items. The black beans, corn, and seasoning made it taste sort of like I was eating a burrito, but with a bun instead of a tortilla. It was also quite filling. I could hardly finish the entire thing, and I felt full for several hours. (I'm glad I picked the last dinner reservation slot.)


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 18, 2017)

Ryan said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > I know this has been debated back and forth a few times here, but are the number of means included now the typical number of occupants, or the max number of occupants? For example, is a Roomette meals for 2, or meals for 3? Bedroom meals for 4?
> ...


My point though being, is on the issue mentioned of paying for meals that aren't being used. Though, it could be worse than was first given as an example.

If a roomette can get a max of 3 sets of meals, then when only one person books a roomette, they aren't "wasting" just one set of meals, they are "wasting" two sets of meals. If only two people book a roomette (the typical occupancy?), they are still "wasting" one set of meals.

Same for a bedroom. Unless you are using up the max of four sets of meals, you are paying for some meals you aren't using.


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2017)

you can't extrapolate directly, since each added person pays a rail fare that contributes to the revenue for that space, even though they are not occupying additional space.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 18, 2017)

I honestly dont understand people that search for every possible excuse in the world to try and label something a bad value. It is absolutely infuriating. If you want to travel from NY to Chicago as one person in a Roomette, and the price is $350 one way, (I am pulling the price out of my bum, I havent kept track) it is your job to figure out whether it is worth it to you. Kvetching that in some strange way you are wasting a meal is annoying and Quixotic. If it is, it is, if it is not, it is not. If Amtrak is running their sleeping cars at close to capacity most of the time, and they certainly are on most trains- especially factoring in seasonal variation- than there is absolutely nothing wrong with their pricing on their end.

I remember a long debate with a friend of mine some years ago- a guy with a legitimate tax ID, corporate information, and a willingness to take a appropriately Pay to the order check came into my store and offered me a container (20 ft, standard shipping style) of high quality, cotton feel (hi-Viz shirts have to be poly) class 2 hi-viz t-shirts in normal sizes made for 3M, certainly genuine. The item sells in Home Depot for $19.95-24.95 depending, wholesales for between $10 and $15 depending on order size. I was offered it for $3 a unit, minimum 3 gross. I took the whole container, naturally.

And then I put it up for sale in my store for $9.99 S-XL, $12.99 2XL-4XL. And offered bulk discounts I dont actually remember, but with that much RTM, and that much supply, I am sure I was generous. Is me selling it for half price a rip off because I got them for $3? Or charging an extra $3 for larger sizes a rip off because I didnt pay the premium most stores do?


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2017)

Well said.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 18, 2017)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Cho Cho Charlie said:
> ...


Maybe the room charge “includes” the cost of ONE meal and if there are 2 or more people in the room, theirs are bonuses/free?

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Ryan (Oct 18, 2017)

Or, there is no connection between room prices and food costs. You’re not “paying for” anything other than a room that also will give you meals for whoever is in there with you. The cost of that room is based on what the market will bear.

The fact that money in between internal Amtrak accounts is transferred behind the scenes is completely irrelevant to what the customer pays and not germane to this discussion.


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2017)

Does that mean if I travel alone at high bucket I should get Dom Perignon but if 2 travel at low bucket they get Andre?

(These days everyone is a "victim")


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## tommylicious (Oct 19, 2017)

Re: miscellaneous shellfish cake (shrimp eyes and tails?), there is a post on to from a seasoned member saying it, and the steak, were the worst he's ever had on Trak. This was from the CZ.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 19, 2017)

Im pleased we are dealing with such a large sample size here.


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## Railroad Bill (Oct 19, 2017)

We just returned from ABQ on the SW Chief and found the food was excellent. I had the surf and turf meal twice and both the seafood cake and steak were very good. Amburgers at lunch are consistently good. Cheesecake dessert is a little better than the former one. Wife had the pecan dessert and also high praise. The best thing was Merrill who was a great and funny guy server, steward who kept the train in stitches. "Here's your milk..from a real cow" He loves his job and it shows.


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## keelhauled (Oct 19, 2017)

tommylicious said:


> Re: miscellaneous shellfish cake (shrimp eyes and tails?), there is a post on to from a seasoned member saying it, and the steak, were the worst he's ever had on Trak. This was from the CZ.


I can't help but notice how you omitted the part from the same post where he said that the same meal on a different train was "very tasty for Amtrak."


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 19, 2017)

No need to bash eyes and tails. The very best soup in the world, ต้มยำกุ้ง (tom-yum-goong), contains the eyes and tails (and head) of the giant tiger prawn. Simply put, it's beyond amazing.


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## SarahZ (Oct 19, 2017)

It's not a "miscellaneous shellfish cake" packed with mystery ingredients. The menu calls it a "premium crab, shrimp, and scallop cake".


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 19, 2017)

Honestly the difference is semantic.


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## SarahZ (Oct 19, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Honestly the difference is semantic.


Perhaps, in the case of "miscellaneous", but it's not quite the "tails and eyes" other people have been ranting about.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 20, 2017)

People are stupid, ranted doubly so. Its like lunchtime, an illusion. You shouldve ignore them.


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## IndyLions (Nov 6, 2017)

Food Report...LSL Eastbound Thu Nov 2 departure.

I’ll admit I had low expectations, and I’ve had much better food before (many moons ago when it was freshly prepared) on Amtrak - but the food was pretty good. I definitely didn’t go hungry - that’s for sure.

Breakfast -

French Toast (B+). Not fresh made, but prepared properly and very tasty. Chicken/Apple sausage was a nice option. Bacon was just ok.

Continental (B). A lot of food and a decent value. Oatmeal with raisins & brown sugar, a croissant, yogurt and fresh fruit.

Lunch -

Cheeseburger (B-). I enjoyed it, but it was missing something. I should have been more adventurous.

Romaine/Feta/Walnut Salad (B). Assembled onboard, greens were good and fresh. They fumbled the dressing choices - they only had ranch.

Dinner (Boston Section) - these were the only two choices

Beef with Mashed Potatoes and green beans (B+). My wife raved about the flavor of the beef dish.

Pasta Vegetarian option (B+). The flavor was really good! Not a mild choice at all. I could have sworn the vegetarian sausage was meat. The bread was properly warmed.

Desserts - lunch & dinner

Chocolate tart with strawberries (B+).

Yogurt Cheesecake with strawberries (B+). A good lower cal (<400) choice.

Chocolate Chunk Cookie (B+).

All the desserts were worth the calories, in my opinion. The crew even got creative and offered the cheesecake as the “a la mode” on top of the cookie at dinner!

One other note: the crew was outstanding on this trip - my best experience in several years. Especially the Boston Section crew - Mary (sleeper) and Rachael (lounge) absolutely went the extra mile and deserve an A+! As a whole - the entire LSL crew showed that even without a diner - if you do your job well you can deliver enjoyable food and a really nice onboard experience.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 6, 2017)

Sounds like that Crew really made the Dinerless LSL a great trip like it should be every trip considering the popularity of this,train and the prices charged!

Hopefully you tipped accordingly and let Amtrak know about the great OBS staff, they dont get lots of compliments, just lots of complaints. ( sadly most are justified)


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## abcnews (Nov 6, 2017)

We really enjoyed the new menu on our recent Silver Meteor trip. I had the Land & Sea, and my wife had the Salmon. It was really good. And we dined in style in a sparkling new Viewliner diner. What an amazing dinning car. Especially at dinner - just before sunset.


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## IndyLions (Nov 11, 2017)

Bob Dylan said:


> Sounds like that Crew really made the Dinerless LSL a great trip like it should be every trip considering the popularity of this,train and the prices charged!
> 
> Hopefully you tipped accordingly and let Amtrak know about the great OBS staff, they dont get lots of compliments, just lots of complaints. ( sadly most are justified[emoji21])


We definitely tipped appropriately...they deserved it.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Shortline (Dec 29, 2017)

Was glad to see new menu items. Who's had them? Almost went with the Shrimp Biryani on the Zephyr last week but server advised avajnst it. Thankfully he did, table across had it, and it looked terrible, watery goup. Guy didn't eat it.,,,,I assume it's a "add boiling water to cook" dish and too much water was thrown in.

Especially interested in the new lunch, was never a fan of the burgers day after day. Anyone had the Chiliquilea or steamed mussels? Would have thought the mussels would have been a better dinner offering.

I did have the seafood cake with steak last week, and it wasn't too bad. I was not a fan of their take on a bernaise sauce, it was just salt and fat in a cup, and didn't really resemble its namesake sauce at all. The lemon was a nice touch for the seafood, would have been lacking that acid without it.


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## PaulM (Dec 29, 2017)

Shortline said:


> Was glad to see new menu items. Who's had them? Almost went with the Shrimp Biryani on the Zephyr last week but server advised avajnst it. Thankfully he did, table across had it, and it looked terrible, watery goup. Guy didn't eat it.,,,,I assume it's a "add boiling water to cook" dish and too much water was thrown in.
> 
> Especially interested in the new lunch, was never a fan of the burgers day after day. Anyone had the Chiliquilea or steamed mussels? Would have thought the mussels would have been a better dinner offering.


Just goes to show you; I had the Biryani on the SWC at Thanksgiving and I thought it too dry (not that I know what it's supposed to be). On the return trip I had it again and it was moister. The real issue is whether or not you like things very hot, as in spicy.

I've had the mussels twice and thought they were great, the only problem being that no sides come with it. We solved it by my ordering the mussels and my wife ordering the lunch salad and sharing. That solved the problem.


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## Shortline (Dec 29, 2017)

Good, thanks. Was hoping the mussels were good. And i do like spicy, very very spicy food. But what I saw looked terrible, it was literally biryani soup. I have 4 nights in a row coming up soon, I think I'll give it a try just to break things up. I despise salmon (lived in Alaska for 5 years and fished a lot. Ate it smoked, grilled, broiled, stuffed, and any other way, I can't even stand the smell of it anymore! Will only have one lunch, so will be a toss up, mussels or chiliquilles. Breakfast will bbe coffee. And real food during my two layovers


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## Anderson (Dec 29, 2017)

The chiliquilles were good when I had them.


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## JRR (Dec 29, 2017)

The mussels are good but if you want them to be great, buy a glass of Chardonnay and add some to the mussels.

Really good. They are nice big mussels. The server advised they come frozen.

If you want more, then sharing works.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## niemi24s (Dec 29, 2017)

JRR said:


> If you want more, then sharing works.


You mean they won't let you_ buy_ more mussels?


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## JRR (Dec 29, 2017)

I’m sure you could.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Anderson (Dec 30, 2017)

I got to try the seafood cake this past week. Not going to lie, it does _not_ work for me.


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## JRR (Dec 31, 2017)

I had the cake last night and it wasn’t bad. Not a Baltimore crab cake by any stretch but they had somehow made it crispy so it was much better than when I had it before.

They also did a great job on the steak as it was much better than usual.

Must make a difference who is preparing the food!

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 31, 2017)

Anderson said:


> I got to try the seafood cake this past week. Not going to lie, it does _not_ work for me.


Ditto!


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