# Auto Train Mysterious Death



## pennyk (Sep 10, 2010)

I just heard on the local Orlando news that a Central Florida woman who was traveling on the Southbound Auto Train yesterday (I think) was reported missing by her husband. Her body was found near the tracks in Jesup, GA. It was reported that a window was open in an emergency exit (I am not sure what they were referring to). It was also reported that the woman had $1,000 in cash with her and it is missing. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is looking into cause of death, how she got off the train, etc. If anyone has heard anything more or different, please post.


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## GaSteve (Sep 10, 2010)

I believe they have recovered her. The investigation is ongoing.


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## battalion51 (Sep 10, 2010)

Found a story here from the Daytona Beach news.


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## the_traveler (Sep 10, 2010)

The only "window" that she could have fallen or be thrown from - is the central boarding door on either side of the Superliner! And nobody saw one opened?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 10, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> The only "window" that she could have fallen or be thrown from - is the central boarding door on either side of the Superliner! And nobody saw one opened?


Most of the windows can be removed by using the emergency handle, so it is possible she was thrown out a window, although it is more likely the door. If they did pull the window out, you'd think someone would notice and it would be in the news story, too.


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## The Chief (Sep 10, 2010)

Here's the CNN link, updated Friday eve.

Mentions "emergency window" which would be the standard FRA design in each sleeper and coach.

The plot thickens,,,especially intriguing is the fact that *Auto Train* is non-stop. Pretty alert *CSX* traincrew that spotted the body.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 10, 2010)

This is one of those mysteries that come up all the time. If she was unable to jump off the train, per the story, and the local law considers it a homicide that means there was a murderer on the train! Usually the husband is suspect number #1 in suspect spousal deaths,

but the missing $1,000 (why would someone have that much $$$ on a train?)and the fact that her purse was with the body makes it even more weird! Since she had to have somehow gotten off the moving train, and according to the story probably was in coach (the story says the husband checked her row), you would think that someone on the train heard or saw something? :help:

Im sure the media will keep track of this one, just hope that they report the story factually which seems to be a problem when it comes to trains!(Was the conductor driving the train? There is also the possibility that she went to the restroom and opened the wrong door and fell out. Also possible is suicide? A sad situation for sure.


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## MattW (Sep 10, 2010)

This is getting into conspiracy territory here, but is anyone forgetting about the guy found in Montana?


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## the_traveler (Sep 10, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> Was the conductor driving the train?


Of course not!



Everyone knows the conductor rides in the caboose!


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 10, 2010)

If she took a header from the lower level, which is really the only way to get out, the door would still be open as obviously she couldn't close it behind her. So that means someone opened the door, "helped" her out and then closed the door and went on their way. And the empty purse is more reason to suspect foul play. Book and movie right anyone?


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## A.J. (Sep 10, 2010)

MattW said:


> This is getting into conspiracy territory here, but is anyone forgetting about the guy found in Montana?


I had not heard about this, so I googled it. That's pretty bizarre! The most recent articles I found only indicated that his death was mysterious in how it came about. Has anyone heard an update? I would think this sort of thing is fairly rare and it seems very bizarre to me. I feel badly for this fellow, and now the poor lady in Georgia, as well as her family.


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## Joe (Sep 11, 2010)

Agatha Christie, where are you when we need you?


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## pennyk (Sep 11, 2010)

This story is all over the local news here in Orlando and everyone seems to be talking about it. Because most of my friends know that I ride Amtrak often, people are asking me what I think (as if this happens on Amtrak regularly). All I can say is that the circumstances are very strange. :wacko:


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## Moses (Sep 11, 2010)

Here is a the Montana Story for those interested.

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_da5c2a38-ae6d-11df-a839-001cc4c03286.html



> Lincoln County Sheriff's detectives in Montana are trying to uncover how and why a La Crosse man fell from an Amtrak car and died Wednesday morning. The body of 51-year-old Agostinho Carlos Sadi was found next to the railroad tracks west of Troy, about a quarter-mile from the old depot and near the city's disposal plant, said Lincoln County Sheriff Daryl Anderson.
> Although the incident remains under investigation, initial findings show no foul play was involved, Anderson said.
> 
> "The autopsy results indicate Sadi died from injuries sustained during a fall from the train," Anderson said. "Falling out of the train was the cause of death."
> ...


How high are you if you fall out? Or How high is the empire builder windows? h34r:

Its the creepy ghost from Glacier maybe they should add a safer train threw Missoula, Montana! :help:


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## DET63 (Sep 11, 2010)

It would seem that a train, bus or plane would be a bad place to murder someone, since the number of potential suspects (fellow passengers and crew) would be rather low. But that didn't stop that guy up in Canada from getting his head lopped off on a Greyhound.


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## George Harris (Sep 11, 2010)

Moses said:


> How high are you if you fall out? Or How high is the empire builder windows? h34r:


How high is insignificant unless the train is near stopped. It is the speed of the train and what you hit when you land that does you in.


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## The Chief (Sep 11, 2010)

Here's the *Empire Builder* body story, a couple of days newer than the *Moses* post above, yet still from August 2010.

It has the great quote from Lincoln County (Montana) Sheriff's Detective Bill White:

“How do you accidentally fall off a train? Either someone pushed him or he jumped… He could have been disoriented, but we don’t know yet.”

In a _Missoulian_ article, also from 24 August and carried by _AP_, Det. White said the investigation was wrapped up unless someone came forward with a lead.


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## pennyk (Sep 12, 2010)

Here is a portion of the latest story from OrlandoSentinel.com.



> Georgia Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Mike McDaniel said Saturday that investigators have begun looking for passengers who rode the Amtrak Auto Train the day a New Smyrna Beach woman went missing and was found dead near the tracks.
> In the time since, an autopsy has been conducted — as of Saturday evening, the results had not been released — and authorities have begun investigating what they've called a "suspicious" death.
> 
> McDaniel confirmed Saturday that Arteta's purse was found with her body. The woman's family said Friday that the purse was found without $1,000 that Arteta had been carrying, but McDaniel would not comment on that.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 12, 2010)

A very unfortunate situation for the family. After celebrating the birth of a new child, the family must immediately deal with the death of a mother/grandmother. 

Based on the observations by previous posters, it would seem unlikely that someone in coach did not notice the lady getting out of her seat, either by herself or with the "help" of someone else? :huh:

And of course she would have had to go down the stairway (this assumes they were riding on the upper level as opposed to downstairs??

Why would her purse be found beside her on the ground? Why would any spouse have their mate carry $1,000 in cash when they had some severe disabilities such as Parkinsons? 

If it was a "stranger on the train", how would they know the lady had large sums of money on her? (Assuming she did??) Why would the thief/murderer attempt to move the lady downstairs, open the window and throw her off the train and throw her purse out at the same time? And it would land at the site of the body?

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has an interesting case here, but one might suspect that the hubby might be looking for a means to end the future "suffering" for both of them 

I hope this is not true, but I also hope this story doesnt sour people on riding Amtrak. Just a lot of unanswered questions that hopefully will eventually shed the truth and light on the subject.


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## Ryan (Sep 12, 2010)

Here's the link:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-12/news/os-amtrak-auto-train-barbara-arteta-20100911_1_auto-train-amtrak-engineer-passengers

Penny, you need to edit all but a short bit of the article out of your post so the site doesn't get caught up in a copyright violation.


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## pennyk (Sep 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Here's the link:
> 
> http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-12/news/os-amtrak-auto-train-barbara-arteta-20100911_1_auto-train-amtrak-engineer-passengers
> 
> Penny, you need to edit all but a short bit of the article out of your post so the site doesn't get caught up in a copyright violation.



Thanks. (I can figure out how to edit). :lol:


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Here's the link:
> 
> http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-12/news/os-amtrak-auto-train-barbara-arteta-20100911_1_auto-train-amtrak-engineer-passengers
> 
> Penny, you need to edit all but a short bit of the article out of your post so the site doesn't get caught up in a copyright violation.


what over 3 lines? its not the whole article.


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## Ryan (Sep 12, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the link:
> ...


It was the whole article before she edited it.


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## leemell (Sep 12, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> Im sure the media will keep track of this one, just hope that they report the story factually which seems to be a problem when it comes to trains!(Was the conductor driving the train? There is also the possibility that she went to the restroom and opened the wrong door and fell out. Also possible is suicide? A sad situation for sure.


It is not just trains; try planes (the Cessna "Piper Cub"), firearms (the revolver "safety", the semi-auto "machine gun", spacecraft (deep space "satellite", law enforcement (broke into home and "robbed" it), and on and on almost infinitium. In most cases reporters notoriously have very little knowledge on what they are reporting, not all, just most. So don't hold much hope of accuracy about trains, it's just not their "thing".


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## AlanB (Sep 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


And I cut it down even more and put it in quotes.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


The post didn't show the edited by part when i posted that.


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## dlagrua (Sep 12, 2010)

This whole story sounds fishy. If the F.B.I. does its work properly they should find the killer. Since the AutoTrain is a "sealed" train going to only one destination the killers name would have to be on the passenger manifest or among the crew. If they question everyone in a room with a hidden voice stress analyzer they will find their man. I hope that the culprit is apprehended, tried, and put in prison as soon as possible.


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## Ryan (Sep 12, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> The post didn't show the edited by part when i posted that.


That's because when a mod does an edit, it doesn't have to have the tag.


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## Michelle (Sep 13, 2010)

I think it's very odd that her husband claims his wife had $1,000.00 in cash in her purse. My mother and aunts are all in the same age group women in their 50's-60's and they "never" carry that much cash. Check cards or credit cards maybe $40-$50 in cash that's it. My mother gets upset when I carry just $200.00 in cash and what moron husband would not carry the cash in his wallet? Says he left her in their seats to stretch out elsewhere on the train to sleep, when she has Parkinson's disease? Are you kidding me? I don't buy his story....PERIOD!!


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## A.J. (Sep 13, 2010)

Michelle said:


> I think it's very odd that her husband claims his wife had $1,000.00 in cash in her purse. My mother and aunts are all in the same age group women in their 50's-60's and they "never" carry that much cash. Check cards or credit cards maybe $40-$50 in cash that's it. My mother gets upset when I carry just $200.00 in cash and what moron husband would not carry the cash in his wallet? Says he left her in their seats to stretch out elsewhere on the train to sleep, when she has Parkinson's disease? Are you kidding me? I don't buy his story....PERIOD!!


I have to politely disagree. I don't think it is at all out of the realm of possibility that this unfortunate woman had that much cash on her. For every older person who has a computer and an atm card, there is another older person who still writes letters and writes checks. My point is that not all old people are the same. I happen to know an older lady who refuses to use a debit card, doesn't even have an atm card, and will only use cash or checks. That means that on certain occasions she does have large amounts of cash in her purse (such as when going on a trip). It doesn't occur to her that that might not be the best thing to do or that it could be stolen. I don't think it's odd that the husband says she had that much cash. Also, just because she has Parkinson's doesn't mean she was a complete invalid. The first news reports indicated that it wasn't just that he wanted her to be able to stretch out, but that her shaking kept him from sleeping. Moving to a spare row nearby would be a logical thing to do and it's possible that the nearest empty row was not immediately adjacent to where his wife was. Having said all that, I've definitely read The Postman Always Rings Twice enough to know that the husband is definitely a suspect. Isn't the spouse usually the first suspect? So while I might disagree with some of what you said, I do agree that it is at least a distinct possibility that the husband was involved. If he was not, I have nothing but sympathy for him and his family.


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## dlagrua (Sep 13, 2010)

If we think about this one why would a criminal pick on an old sick lady as a victim? This group typically carries little cash so if the death was the result of a robbery the killer had to be very deranged. Also was her ring or jewelry taken? Maybe this was a quick mugging and then out the door but its hard to believe that a criminal that would have to go back to his seat, would choose an Amtrak train for a mugging and murder. I am guessing a new member of the crew might be the culprit.


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## the_traveler (Sep 13, 2010)

A.J. said:


> cash or checks


What are these things - cash and checks?




I think I read about them in history books!


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## Ryan (Sep 13, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I am guessing a new member of the crew might be the culprit.


Based on?


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## rrdude (Sep 13, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> If we think about this one why would a criminal pick on an old sick lady as a victim? This group typically carries little cash so if the death was the result of a robbery the killer had to be very deranged. Also was her ring or jewelry taken? Maybe this was a quick mugging and then out the door but its hard to believe that a criminal that would have to go back to his seat, would choose an Amtrak train for a mugging and murder. I am guessing a new member of the crew might be the culprit.



Nah, it's gonna be the husband, as some OP pointed out, killers are usually known to their victim. Can also claim $1,000 loss on insurance claim, maybe. Hubby was tired of having to deal with wife's condition, and he just snapped. So sad.

Of course, after watching the movie Fargo together, my wife will *not let me rent * a chipper-shredder either. Did I type that?


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## George Harris (Sep 13, 2010)

I would go with he possibility that the woman really could have had that much cash. My parents NEVER used a credit card in their lives. They had some department store charge cards that my father treated as a debt every time they charged anything despite knowing that he would pay it in full promptly when the bill arrived. He also had Parkinsons for about 15 years before his death, and it did not keep him from traveling and do many other things that could be managed with control of fine motor skills.


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## Trainmans daughter (Sep 13, 2010)

I can't speculate how she fell from the train, but I bet the money was still in the purse at that time and stolen from her as she lay alongside the track. Why would someone on the train steal her money, hand her back her purse ("Here, hold this."), and then throw her off?


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## haolerider (Sep 13, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> If we think about this one why would a criminal pick on an old sick lady as a victim? This group typically carries little cash so if the death was the result of a robbery the killer had to be very deranged. Also was her ring or jewelry taken? Maybe this was a quick mugging and then out the door but its hard to believe that a criminal that would have to go back to his seat, would choose an Amtrak train for a mugging and murder. I am guessing a new member of the crew might be the culprit.


What in the world would make you think a new member of the crew is responsible? The crew members have to go back to work on the same train, so based on your earlier comment about a criminal having to go back to their seat, your comment makes no sense.


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## The Chief (Sep 13, 2010)

The investigation continues as the plot thickens.

This FOX-Atlanta article of Mon 13 Sept  mentions GBI focus on passengers in cars 5310, 5311, 5312, and 5313, and the lounge.

Thanks to *Donctor* his system consist sheet shows this:

*AUTO TRAIN*
— 2 sets


 


----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Diner


----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Diner


----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Lounge


5213|5313 —— Superliner Coach


5212|5312 —— Superliner Coach


5211|5311 —— Superliner Coach


5210|5310 —— Superliner Coach


5244|5344 —— Superliner Sleeper


5242|5342 —— Superliner Sleeper


5240|5340 —— Superliner Deluxe Sleeper


----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Diner


----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Lounge


5241|5341 —— Superliner Deluxe Sleeper


5243|5343 —— Superliner Sleeper


5245|5345 —— Superliner Sleeper


----|---- —— Superliner Trans-Dorm


CBS Atlanta article 13 Sept noted autopsy results indicate victim died of "multiple injuries including a broken neck."

*rrdude*, that was funny about the wood chipper-shredder. A great Coen Brothers scene,,,

And I've waited a bit to postulate one theory: Maybe a passenger could be disoriented at night, after rising from sleep, going downstairs, looking for the head (restroom) in unfamiliar surroundings and noises, and accidentally open the vestibule door and take a header out the "Dutch"-style door,,,

And here's our *Amtrak Unlimited* PSA, the GBI tip line at (800) 597-8477, in case any pax or others may view this thread,,,


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 13, 2010)

Maybe her shaking somehow forced the door open and she fell out. Or maybe she had a another medical condition and thought the door was a restroom and out she went or It is a possibility the crew didn't close and latch the door correctly.


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## MattW (Sep 13, 2010)

One thing that's bugging me slightly is the media saying she exited through an "emergency window." I'm wondering if in fact, it was the standard boarding door she left through, but our hyper-cautious media refuses to believe that a big door like that can be opened as simply as it can.


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## VentureForth (Sep 13, 2010)

Doesn't the door require two latches to open? Maybe not... But it does take a bit of extra strength than opening a bathroom door. The speculation about an emergency exit being removed is plausible, - and much easier. But how could it not have been noticed - especially in Coach? I suppose with no stops, it's possible that all coach pax were asleep at the same time. Perhaps a sleeping gas was introduced into the cabin and all the passengers were in a deep sleep when the culprit came aboard.

It was a dark and stormy night. Suddenly, a window popped out.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 13, 2010)

Moses said:


> > Although the incident remains under investigation, *initial findings show no foul play was involved*, Anderson said. "The autopsy results indicate Sadi died from injuries sustained during a fall from the train," Anderson said. "Falling out of the train was the cause of death."


The moral of that story is "Don't die of mysterious causes in Montana." If you do they'll look for the flimsiest possible reasoning to stop investigating.


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## A.J. (Sep 13, 2010)

has anyone here ever read the agatha christie novel "4:50 From Paddington"? Someone mentioned Christie earlier, but I just remembered that in that particular novel, a woman is killed on the train, her body dumped off of it, while moving. hmmm. regardless, I feel badly for that poor old lady. that's not a pleasant way to go.


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## rrdude (Sep 13, 2010)

VentureForth said:


> Doesn't the door require two latches to open? Maybe not... But it does take a bit of extra strength than opening a bathroom door. The speculation about an emergency exit being removed is plausible, - and much easier. But how could it not have been noticed - especially in Coach? I suppose with no stops, it's possible that all coach pax were asleep at the same time. Perhaps a sleeping gas was introduced into the cabin and all the passengers were in a deep sleep when the culprit came aboard.
> 
> It was a dark and stormy night. Suddenly, a window popped out.



"IF" it was in coach, there is *no possible way* an emergency window could have been popped out, and no one noticed, unless the coach car was virtually empty, and the only pax were at the extreme other end of the car. The wind noise alone, let alone the wind itself, and the sound of the horn....?

Papa took her down to the lower level, said "let's open the dutch door like we used to honey, smell that fresh Georgia air.......Step a little closer"....*PUSH*...... close door and dog the latches,.............."Good nite hon......"


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## pennyk (Sep 13, 2010)

A.J. said:


> I feel badly for that poor old lady. that's not a pleasant way to go.



I think the woman was 63 - and that hardly makes her an "old lady." :wacko: At least I hope not.

I saw an Orlando tv news report this evening in which the woman's son was interviewed. He stated that the family is upset that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation is not keeping them posted as to how the investigation is going.


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## A.J. (Sep 13, 2010)

pennyk said:


> A.J. said:
> 
> 
> > I feel badly for that poor old lady. that's not a pleasant way to go.
> ...


I think I must have misread the news the first time around...I thought she was a good deal older than early 60s, which is definitely not "old" in my book!


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

I agree with the speculations by Railroad Bill. I wonder when the woman went missing (guess I can find that in the news articles). The autotrain runs on a pretty tight schedule, and would pass each town including Jesup, Ga at approximately the same time each day. The train crew probably has record of when they passed each particular town or landmark. The authorities should know what time the body left the train. They need to do a full investigation and bring justice for the deceased woman.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 13, 2010)

There have been videos on youtube that show a superliner train at full speed doors open. Maybe she was trying to be a good citizan and close the door but got sucked out or something


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## NE933 (Sep 14, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> There have been videos on youtube that show a superliner train at full speed doors open. Maybe she was trying to be a good citizan and close the door but got sucked out or something


No, that can't be. Why would the doors be wide open at full speed? Sometimes conductors do this 5 miles in advance of the next stop to save dwell time but this is Auto Train. Circumstantially: she just happended to walk past a set of doors on the lower floor of a Superliner, and then a few feet over to where the open door was, just to what? Catch some fresh air? I hope God's vengeance takes the perpetrator down. This injustice is sickening and disgusting, a poor older woman with Parkinson's disease is thrown out like garbage?!!


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 14, 2010)

I keep forgetting this is the auto train and no stops except for a service stop and no passengers get on or off. If it was a emergency window it would have to be in a sleeper since like said if in coach the noise and the fact there is wind should get some attention.


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## GaSteve (Sep 14, 2010)

pennyk said:


> A.J. said:
> 
> 
> > I feel badly for that poor old lady. that's not a pleasant way to go.
> ...


The GBI still considers this a criminal investigation until proved otherwise. Such things are always kept close to the vest to avoid compromising the investigation. This is not to say by any means that any of the family are suspects, but it would be standard procedure.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 14, 2010)

The CNN article says the husband got up around 3 - 3:15am and then noticed her missing around 5:45am. That's a short time period for that to happen. Plus, sleeping in coach is NOT easy so someone would have had to have noticed her get up. But I'm still not understanding the $1,000 cash - especially since it says they were on their way HOME. If they were just beginning their vacation, maybe, but who would need to take that much cash when you're on a non-stop train going home?


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## passenger (Sep 14, 2010)

Guest said:


> I agree with the speculations by Railroad Bill. I wonder when the woman went missing (guess I can find that in the news articles). The autotrain runs on a pretty tight schedule, and would pass each town including Jesup, Ga at approximately the same time each day. The train crew probably has record of when they passed each particular town or landmark. The authorities should know what time the body left the train. They need to do a full investigation and bring justice for the deceased woman.


They say between 3:00 and 3:30 a.m. The train arrived in Sanford an hour early that morning. I was in one of the Coach cars and awake most of the night. I can't imagine a window being removed and not hearing noise or wind. There have to be other passengers who know something.


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## pennyk (Sep 14, 2010)

passenger said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with the speculations by Railroad Bill. I wonder when the woman went missing (guess I can find that in the news articles). The autotrain runs on a pretty tight schedule, and would pass each town including Jesup, Ga at approximately the same time each day. The train crew probably has record of when they passed each particular town or landmark. The authorities should know what time the body left the train. They need to do a full investigation and bring justice for the deceased woman.
> ...


Were you in one of the coach cars where the passengers are being interviewed by the GBI?


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## Dovecote (Sep 14, 2010)

rrdude said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't the door require two latches to open? Maybe not... But it does take a bit of extra strength than opening a bathroom door. The speculation about an emergency exit being removed is plausible, - and much easier. But how could it not have been noticed - especially in Coach? I suppose with no stops, it's possible that all coach pax were asleep at the same time. Perhaps a sleeping gas was introduced into the cabin and all the passengers were in a deep sleep when the culprit came aboard.
> ...


Actually it is possible for one of the coach cars to be completely empty especially if the passenger load is very light. I witnessed such an occurence on Thanksgiving Day last year. My location on the train was in the sleeper car adjacent to coach car 5310. Due to the light load this car did not have any passengers. Our SCA mentioned that this is done when the passenger load is very light to have a buffer zone between the coach and sleeping cars. If this situation existed for this trip than it is possible for this dastardly deed to take place either in an empty or near empty car without anyone hearing the door open.


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## VentureForth (Sep 14, 2010)

GBI's involvement is interesting particularly because GBI really doesn't have the skill set. Even though the crime literally happened in Georgia, the passengers were on a closed vessel between Virginia and Florida. GBI should handle the autopsy and crime scene, but the investigation needs to be be Florida and Virginia's.

Or the FBI.

Special Agent Lynch, I know a great deal of folk have made fun of you on this board, but if you still lurk out there, what do you think?


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## Dale (Sep 14, 2010)

My friend was on this train and had dinner with this couple. It would seem to me that an assisted suicide pact would be better performed at home with a surplus of pills. Getting thrown from a train is a pretty painful and gruesome way to exit life and one could not be certain that death would result from the fall, no?

If she did have help leaving that train, isn't it strange that no one saw or heard anything even in the early morning? They weren't in the sleeper section-they were upstairs in the coach recliner seats trying to sleep. Train was probably half full of people nodding in and out of sleep in their chairs. The train apparently stops 5 times during the 17 hours from Maryland to Florida.

Advanced Parkinson's can really contort a living person's body into some wild uncontrollable movements. She might have gotten up to go to the bathroom (hence taking her purse with her) and hit the wrong button. Would be interesting to know if those doors close automatically after opening or with the movement of the train.


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## GaSteve (Sep 14, 2010)

Dale said:


> My friend was on this train and had dinner with this couple. It would seem to me that an assisted suicide pact would be better performed at home with a surplus of pills. Getting thrown from a train is a pretty painful and gruesome way to exit life and one could not be certain that death would result from the fall, no?
> 
> If she did have help leaving that train, isn't it strange that no one saw or heard anything even in the early morning? They weren't in the sleeper section-they were upstairs in the coach recliner seats trying to sleep. Train was probably half full of people nodding in and out of sleep in their chairs. The train apparently stops 5 times during the 17 hours from Maryland to Florida.
> 
> Advanced Parkinson's can really contort a living person's body into some wild uncontrollable movements. She might have gotten up to go to the bathroom (hence taking her purse with her) and hit the wrong button. Would be interesting to know if those doors close automatically after opening or with the movement of the train.


I would assume that you friend has volunteered his/her information to the GBI.


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## GaSteve (Sep 14, 2010)

VentureForth said:


> GBI's involvement is interesting particularly because GBI really doesn't have the skill set. Even though the crime literally happened in Georgia, the passengers were on a closed vessel between Virginia and Florida. GBI should handle the autopsy and crime scene, but the investigation needs to be be Florida and Virginia's.
> 
> Or the FBI.
> 
> Special Agent Lynch, I know a great deal of folk have made fun of you on this board, but if you still lurk out there, what do you think?


I don't understand why the Florida or Virginia authorities would have any more expertise than the GBI. The incident, whatever it was, occurred in Georgia, hence it is the GBI's case unless and until they ask the FBI for assistance.


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 14, 2010)

Dale said:


> My friend was on this train and had dinner with this couple. It would seem to me that an assisted suicide pact would be better performed at home with a surplus of pills. Getting thrown from a train is a pretty painful and gruesome way to exit life and one could not be certain that death would result from the fall, no?
> 
> If she did have help leaving that train, isn't it strange that no one saw or heard anything even in the early morning? They weren't in the sleeper section-they were upstairs in the coach recliner seats trying to sleep. Train was probably half full of people nodding in and out of sleep in their chairs. The train apparently stops 5 times during the 17 hours from Maryland to Florida.
> 
> Advanced Parkinson's can really contort a living person's body into some wild uncontrollable movements. She might have gotten up to go to the bathroom (hence taking her purse with her) and hit the wrong button. Would be interesting to know if those doors close automatically after opening or with the movement of the train.


I would think her exit from the train was on the lower level of the Superliner coach. Opening an emergency window on the top level of the coach would certainly be noticed by the other passengers. She could have gone downstairs to use the washroom, became confused and opened the exit door. I supposed she could have opened the top of the dutch door and fell out (or the bottom half, for that matter). The missing money, of course, leads to the suspicion of foul play. It could have been anybody on the train. You would think the incident would have been witnessed by people riding in the lower level coach section, but everyone could have been asleep.

Very mysterious, the stuff of novels and movies. As far as the incident being investigated by Georgia, the crime (if it was one) happened in Georgia, so it falls under that state's jurisdiction. Virginia and Florida would have no reason to be involved. Of course, the FBI could be called in on the investigation since it happened on an interstate train.

As far as pushing buttons, that would be for doors between the cars. The exit doors on the Superliners are opened by hand.


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## NE933 (Sep 14, 2010)

Many older folks, like my grandparents, are from an older generation in which large sums of money would be stashed throughout the house so that it can be immediately available should there be a financial collapse, or simply just to avoid reporting it to IRS or the housing development which would mean certain tax and/or rent hikes. Also, there is some security in knowing the presence of a 'little pot of extra money' on hand, ready in a second, if you need it.

That being said, when a senior citizen decided to take a few hundred for vacation or other trip, they carry the object holding the money everywhere. A woman with a 'loaded' handbag will feel uncomfortable just leaving it on the chair while they go to the bathroom, especially in coach. This poor woman had her thousand dollars next to her because she was the only security, not because she tried to get out of the moving train in the middle of the night to start a new life, and not to commit suicide. If suicide by jumping from a train was the plan she would have left the bag, and money, in her seat.

This is a tragic story of a passenger getting up to go to the bathroom, and either some random cruel ******* gets his or her kicks, or more likely, someone who knows her well had premeditated the plan and the inevitable moment came to answer nature's call. The latches of the door are unopened, a wind is generated, who cares, if there was a struggle well she had Parkison's and sometimes the patients can can make incomprehensible sounds.

Any elderly passenger, Parkisons or not, while walking through a moving train of 70mph: the only thing they are interested in is where's something to hold on to. They are not going to walk over to a door and play with the latches. The only one who used the latches is the murderer.


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## boxcar479 (Sep 14, 2010)

You know I was thinking that maybe someone who sat near or even with her at one of her meals, could have seen her wad of cash when she payed for her meal. What do you think GUEST_ Dale? hhmmmm


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## AlanB (Sep 14, 2010)

Dale said:


> The train apparently stops 5 times during the 17 hours from Maryland to Florida.


The Auto Train makes 1 stop between Virginia and Florida to refuel in the middle of the night. Any other stops would have been because of opposing train traffic and most likely brief. But except for the scheduled refueling stop, no doors would be opened. At any other stops for meets with other trains, the doors would remain closed as no one would be boarding or disembarking.

And the Auto Train doesn't go to Maryland. It ends/starts in Lorton, Virginia about 20 or 30 miles south of DC.


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## dlagrua (Sep 15, 2010)

boxcar817 said:


> You know I was thinking that maybe someone who sat near or even with her at one of her meals, could have seen her wad of cash when she payed for her meal. What do you think GUEST_ Dale? hhmmmm



Meals are included on all tickets on the AutoTrain.

What is also sad about this is that the edlerly lady murdered who was riding in coach was suffering with advanced parkinsons disease. If the woman had $1000 in cash with her they could have probably afforded the upgrade. If that was my wife at 67 and in ill health she would be traveling in a bedroom.


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2010)

It's still possible that someone saw the money when she was leaving with a tip.

And having $1000 in cash is not an indicator of someone's ability to pay for a bedroom, so lose your attitude about coach. Are you ever going to get around to substantiating your acquisition of a crew member, or are you just hoping that it'll quietly be forgotten?


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## rrdude (Sep 15, 2010)

The *CONDUCTOR* did it!

I have no proof, I have no motive, I have no idea. It just sounds good, like "The Butler did it!"






I'm putting $5.00 in the AU kitty, that the husband did it.


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## VentureForth (Sep 15, 2010)

Ryan said:


> And having $1000 in cash is not an indicator of someone's ability to pay for a bedroom, so lose your attitude about coach. Are you ever going to get around to substantiating your acquisition of a crew member, or are you just hoping that it'll quietly be forgotten?


If she was in a bedroom, Amtrak would have the $1000 and it wouldn't be in her purse. (Oh, and I think you meant "accusation" of a crew member. The GBI had an aquisition of of a corpse. 

What I want to know - and this seems to be the most troubling to me - is that there was a report that an emergency window was missing. Don't know if this was extrainformational reporting or what, but I want to know where that missing emergency window was.

Another botched opportunity is when they all detrained. Cops should have been on the scene, and they should have sequestered the passengers when they arrived in Sanford.


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## Greg (Sep 15, 2010)

rrdude said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't the door require two latches to open? Maybe not... But it does take a bit of extra strength than opening a bathroom door. The speculation about an emergency exit being removed is plausible, - and much easier. But how could it not have been noticed - especially in Coach? I suppose with no stops, it's possible that all coach pax were asleep at the same time. Perhaps a sleeping gas was introduced into the cabin and all the passengers were in a deep sleep when the culprit came aboard.
> ...



Don't some of the older Superliner sleepers have an upstairs bathroom with a frosted window in it? It is possible that the perp and the woman could make it to the sleeper in the middle of the night to one of those restrooms, pop out the emergency window (if they're so equipped, and I think I remember that they are) shove her out, exit the restroom, close the door and people might not notice for a while.


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## Big Iron (Sep 15, 2010)

Ryan said:


> It's still possible that someone saw the money when she was leaving with a tip.
> 
> And having $1000 in cash is not an indicator of someone's ability to pay for a bedroom, so lose your attitude about coach. Are you ever going to get around to substantiating your acquisition of a crew member, or are you just hoping that it'll quietly be forgotten?


Having $1,000.00 CLEARLY demonstrates the ability to buy a bedroom but does not demonstrate the willingness to buy a bedroom so drop the attitude with the other poster. You must still be sore from the whuppin the JMU Dukes put on the Hokies last Saturday.


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## haolerider (Sep 15, 2010)

Greg said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > VentureForth said:
> ...


It is really quite amazing to me to read all of the hypothetical analysis of what could have happened, what might have happened, who did it, who didn't do it, etc., etc. I am also amazed that all this discussion has taken place based on a reporters story of the event. I think we all know that most reporters don't know the difference between the front of the train and the back of the train - let alone a term like "emergency window". So far as the guilty party,we have the husband, a thief on the train, someone who saw the victim with the alleged $1,000 in her purse and even someone who foolishly thinks a new employee on the train was the guilty party. Someone even suggested that because of the victim's Parkinson tremors, she mistakenly touched a door handle and while her hands were shaking, she somehow opened the door and fell out - somehow managing to close the door on her way out!!

At some point the police or GBI will determine what happened and then we can all sit back and see who was correct and who was not. Until then, continue to speculate. It is entertaining as hell!!


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2010)

Big Iron said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > It's still possible that someone saw the money when she was leaving with a tip.
> ...


No, it doesn't. Doesn't even come close. You've got no idea what she was carrying that money for and the insistence that this is some kind of an indicator that they could have afforded a bedroom is rediculous. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on being ignorant of dlagura's attitude wrt to the kind of people that ride in coach on the rest.


> You must still be sore from the whuppin the JMU Dukes put on the Hokies last Saturday.


I fail to see the relevance of the results of a football game to just about anything, other than trying to get a rise out of me. Reported.


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## rrdude (Sep 15, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Big Iron said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


"Reported"? To who, and why? I got the joke Ryan. R U serious?


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## haolerider (Sep 15, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Big Iron said:
> ...


"Wait until Dad gets home - you all will be sorry!"


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## Big Iron (Sep 15, 2010)

In its simplest form a bedroom on the Auto Train does not cost $1,000.00 so having that amount in her possession is indicative of her being able to afford a bedroom should she have desired. You, as I, have no idea what her intentions were for the money so we'll never know if she desired a bedroom or not. Since she was travelling in coach, if its safe to assume, she decided her money was best spent elsewhere. Simply stating, with the facts known to us, that she did have the "ability" to purchase a bedroom.

I'll graciously accept your benefit of the doubt regarding coach passengers since, in my prior post, I made no mention of coach passengers, or coach travel in general.


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## Big Iron (Sep 15, 2010)

haolerider said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...



IM SORRY IM SORRRY. My poor Dad, put in a hard days work, coming home to be with his loving wife and kids only to be met at the door with a Mom that is mad as a hornet and three kids huddled in the corner waiting for the inevitible. Fond memories, thanks for the laugh!!!!!!!


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2010)

rrdude said:


> "Reported"? To who, and why? I got the joke Ryan. R U serious?


To the moderators. There's no reason to take a personal shot at someone because you disagree with a post that they make. That kind of personal nit-picking has no place here.


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## amamba (Sep 15, 2010)

Big Iron said:


> In its simplest form a bedroom on the Auto Train does not cost $1,000.00 so having that amount in her possession is indicative of her being able to afford a bedroom should she have desired. You, as I, have no idea what her intentions were for the money so we'll never know if she desired a bedroom or not. Since she was travelling in coach, if its safe to assume, she decided her money was best spent elsewhere. Simply stating, with the facts known to us, that she did have the "ability" to purchase a bedroom.
> 
> I'll graciously accept your benefit of the doubt regarding coach passengers since, in my prior post, I made no mention of coach passengers, or coach travel in general.


I completely disagree that having $1000 in cash means that she could afford a bedroom. Just because she had $1,000 cash available on her, that day, does not indicate in any way that she could afford it.

From dictionary.com

af·ford

   /əˈfɔrd, əˈfoʊrd/ Show Spelled[uh-fawrd, uh-fohrd] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)

1.

to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect

2.

to be able to meet the expense of; have or be able to spare the price of.

Since we have no knowledge of what the money was intended for, we have no idea if spending it on a bedroom would have "serious consequences or adverse effects."

And I completely agree with Ryan.


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## YaBut (Sep 15, 2010)

My husband and I ride the train all over the place. Someone could have easily shoved her into an unoccupied bedroom and threw her out of the emergency window.

I agree just because she had $1000 on her does NOT mean she could have afforded or wanted to pay for a 1st class ticket or a bedroom ticket.

I do know whomever threw her off the train is definitely a complete scumbag and when caught should be tied and dragged behind the Auto train  

No way the husband did it!


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## dlagrua (Sep 15, 2010)

Ryan said:


> It's still possible that someone saw the money when she was leaving with a tip.
> 
> And having $1000 in cash is not an indicator of someone's ability to pay for a bedroom, so lose your attitude about coach. Are you ever going to get around to substantiating your acquisition of a crew member, or are you just hoping that it'll quietly be forgotten?


1. Someone committed a murder. I speculate that a NEW crew member MIGHT be the culprit. Its an opinion right or wrong that I have every right to have. You are not the only one who is entitled to an OPINION. There is only discussion and theory at this point. If I could prove who did it the case would be solved.

2. Someone who is as sick as this woman was should be riding in a sleeper. You can get a roomette aboard the AT for about $225.00 or get the Handicapped room for the same money. If your wife had parkinsons disease would you not insist that she lie down in a bed for the night? Isn't this the compassionate thing to do? or do we just let terribly sick persons ride in coach to save a few bucks? If my wife was that sick she would be riding in a bedroom, even if I had to borrow the money.

3. Your hostile and adversarial response seems to indicate that you have a low tolerance for views other than your own.


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## nferr (Sep 15, 2010)

I hear Inspector Poirot is now interviewing all the passengers and train crew. Very mysterious.

I feel sorry for the woman. If someone is responsible I sure hope they catch whomever it is.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 15, 2010)

OK back on topic. We don't know just how she fell out of the train. The article says emergency exit. That could be anything since most news reporters are ignorant when it comes to passenger trains and will make things up so it sounds good and people will read it. She could have been shoved out of the side door or a emergency window in a sleeper though how do you get past the dining car staff and sleeper attendant when you don't belong in a sleeper? They are good at keeping coach passengers out. Robbery wasn't the motive since she was found with $1000 cash on her.


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > It's still possible that someone saw the money when she was leaving with a tip.
> ...


1. What's so special about a new crew member? Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to accuse someone of murder, you damn well better have something better than "it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it". It's a pretty obvious conclusion to draw that you're basing it on your OPINION that crew members are of a lower class than you are, but we'll get to that later. Sure, you're welcome to express that opinion, just as I'm free to express my opinion that you're full of it. You're no better than the guy who rides coach because that's all he can afford, or the car attendant that comes in and turns your bed down at night.

2. Some people don't have that much money to throw at a bedroom. Since you've long made it known that you consider the people that ride in coach to be in the same lower class as crew members, this is just a continuation of your "I'm better than everyone else, because I spend my money to ride in a sleeper" theme that couldn't be further off base. Sure, if my wife were in that position, I'd opt for the sleeper. If I couldn't afford it, I'd likely forgo the trip (as I suspect that you would do as well). However, I'm not so self centered as to be unable to recognize that some people don't have the same priorities and thus make different decisions (and so am not as quick to judge as you seem to be).

3. Since you make an issue of it, I have no problem with people whose views differ from my own. I do have an issue with people like you that put themselves up on a pedestal and think that they're better that others because of the job that they have, how much money they have, or the class of transport that they choose to undertake. I find that elitist, "I'm better than you" attitude abhorrent, and I'm going to challenge you on it every time that you post it here.


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## rrdude (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm better than all of you, especially Ryan! I have no evidence, (other than my superior intellect) and I say "The Husband did it!".

I'm upping my bet to $10.00, or a one-class upgrade voucher!

I stand on my principals, as I cannot find a pedestal. (And it's hard to balance on their heads)

I am ready to be reported for contributing NOTHING to this post, and insulting EVERYONE. "Bailiff, whack his #$%$%"


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## AlanB (Sep 16, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> She could have been shoved out of the side door or a emergency window in a sleeper though how do you get past the dining car staff and sleeper attendant when you don't belong in a sleeper? They are good at keeping coach passengers out.


At the hour that this poor women left the train, the dining car attendants as well as the sleeping car attendants would have been fast asleep in their own beds. So they wouldn't have been stopping anyone. Additionally, there is no dining car separating the coach cars from the sleeping cars on this train. The dining car for sleeper passengers is in the middle of the 5 or 6 sleepers. That leaves one sleeper attached directly to a coach.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

I always thought it interesting that the Auto Train was set up this way, rather than having the coach diners sit between the sleepers and coach. For example (north to south):

Sleepers

Sleeper diner/lounge

Sleepers

Coach diner/lounge

Coaches


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## rrdude (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I always thought it interesting that the Auto Train was set up this way, rather than having the coach diners sit between the sleepers and coach. For example (north to south):
> 
> Sleepers
> 
> ...


I'm not following Ryan, why is that different, or interesting?


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

The current consist swaps the coaches and the coach diners/lounge, so you can walk straight from a coach car into a sleeper. Like this:

Sleepers

Sleeper diner/lounge

Sleepers

*Coaches*

*Coach diner/lounge*

It's be a relatively simple swap to put a buffer car between the coaches and sleepers like they do on all the other trains (with the exception of sleepers that are added/cut en route like the Portland sleeper on the EB).


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## VentureForth (Sep 16, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> ...Robbery wasn't the motive since she was found with $1000 cash on her.





Any News Source said:


> According to family members, the $1,000 Arteta had been carrying was missing from the purse when it was found.


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## pennyk (Sep 16, 2010)

There was just an update on a local Orlando television news station stating that investigators have been interviewing passengers on the subject Auto Train, but it is unknown whether they have any more clues. Hopefully they will be able to resolve this mystery.


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## AlanB (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> I always thought it interesting that the Auto Train was set up this way, rather than having the coach diners sit between the sleepers and coach. For example (north to south):
> 
> Sleepers
> 
> ...


Actually years ago it was setup more like you suggest, although I seem to recall that it was just one of the coach dining cars that separated the sleepers from the coaches. I'll have to see if I can't find an old consist listing when I get home to see just what was in between the coach & sleeper section. I believe that the coach "support" cars were all moved to the end of the train shortly after that trip in an effort to minimize the walk for coach passengers between the station and the cars.


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## rrdude (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> The current consist swaps the coaches and the coach diners/lounge, so you can walk straight from a coach car into a sleeper. Like this:
> 
> Sleepers
> 
> ...


As always, "late to the party". Gotcha.


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## passenger (Sep 16, 2010)

passenger said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > passenger said:
> ...


Yes, saw them in Lorton, but not on train. I heard nothing and was awake most of the night.


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## dlagrua (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


An answer like this offers nothing constructive and as such is not worthy of a reply.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

Yet you did! It can only be constructive if you take a minute to look inward and see what caused it to be written - your choice.


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## pennyk (Sep 16, 2010)

passenger said:


> passenger said:
> 
> 
> > pennyk said:
> ...


Were you interviewed by GBI? Our news story mentioned that GBI stated that passengers had been very cooperative.


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## haolerider (Sep 16, 2010)

haolerider said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


This whole discussion has gotten completely out of hand. None of you know anything concrete about the incident and yet you are accusing people of murder! Get a grip. There is no such thing as a "coach person" nor is there any such thing as a "sleeper person". Stereotypes are easy to fall into, but hard to get out of.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

For the record, I've accused (nor acqused!) anyone of murder.


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## dlagrua (Sep 16, 2010)

haolerider said:


> haolerider said:
> 
> 
> > dlagrua said:
> ...


The open exchange of ideas and opinions is not an accusation. Neither is a theory an accusation. Read the dictionary and compare the meaning of the words. They all have totally different meanings. To define them the same as an accusation is to show a lack of a basic understanding of the English language. Also when you preface a sentence with might or could have it simply defines a possibility.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> The open exchange of ideas and opinions is not an accusation. Neither is a theory an accusation. Read the dictionary and compare the meaning of the words. They all have totally different meanings. To define them the same as an accusation is to show a lack of a basic understanding of the English language. Also when you preface a sentence with might or could have it simply defines a possibility.


You must be a politician with all of those weasel words, complete with the personal attacks on the people that you disagree with.


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## JAChooChoo (Sep 16, 2010)

Known facts: Couple boards 53 in LOR. Wife suffers from potentially burdensome disease.

Train arrives in Sanford Husband then reports wife as missing with $1,000 (uncorroberated)

At 1515 CSX crew finds body which suffered multiple injuries including a broken neck.

The authorities are trying to interview all coach passengers.

So, lets drop the conspiracy theories and slander of Amtrak personnel.


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## George Harris (Sep 17, 2010)

Maybe this has been said. One of the posts commented negatively on the GBI with the thought that the investigation should be turned over to FDLE or its Virginia equivalent. While I have some knowledge of an FDLE investigation that was very positive, they would have no jurisdiction over the case no matter how good or how bad they are. The agencies that would have any right to be involved would be:

1. GBI, since it was in Georgia

2. Sheriff's Department or local police department of whatever county or city, if any, in which it occurred.

3. FBI since it involved interstate transport

4. Amtrak police since it was on their train

5. CSX police since it was on their property.

Among themselves they can figure out or fight out who does what.

Anyone else would at best be an uninvited observer.

Some of the speculations in this thread are downright silly.


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## lthanlon (Sep 17, 2010)

George Harris said:


> Some of the speculations in this thread are downright silly.


Not only that, most of these folks can be called upon to serve on juries.


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## rrdude (Sep 17, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Some of the speculations in this thread are downright silly.
> ...



Not if I keep posting like I have been...... I'll have a good case of claiming "insanity".


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## pennyk (Sep 17, 2010)

Update from Orlando television news: The GBI has interviewed 80% of the passengers on the train, but they would not say whether they have learned anything significant.


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## boxcar479 (Sep 17, 2010)

FINALLY!!! something solid :wacko: Thanks PennyK


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## George Harris (Sep 17, 2010)

lthanlon said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Some of the speculations in this thread are downright silly.
> ...


And they can vote and even reproduce


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## The Chief (Sep 17, 2010)

Regarding questions/observations on what agencies are involved investigating, per reports, GBI is the lead. FBI could be involved.

GBI spokesman John Bankhead said Thursday other agencies were handling the analysis of the train itself (think forensics, this could be FBI, or destination agencies, on an assist). <-- New fact, multiple agency involvement.

Bankhead said investigators had conducted phone interviews with "many" of the more than 260 passengers. <-- That's a new fact, the PAX count.

Mrs. Arteta's funeral Mass was Friday. Her obit indicates she was involved as a community giver-backer and a good baker.

She sounds like she would have been an interesting table companion in the *Dining Car*.

BTW *rrdude* I liked the *Cheech and Chong* reference,,,so that's a bit of a contribution to the thread.


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## pennyk (Sep 18, 2010)

Update from Orlando news television station: the son of the deceased woman is telling the press that he is frustrated with Amtrak, and he would like more cooperation between Amtrak and GBI. He said he could not elaborate because of the ongoing investigation. :wacko:


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## jimhudson (Sep 18, 2010)

Sounds like a lawyer's advice, :lol: I can't really say anything right now but I demand attention!

He needs to understand that once law enforcement becomes involved there has to be some secrecy and discretion involved and Amtrak doesnt have anything they can do right now, they have already turned over everything they have, seems like the FBI needs to help out the GBI,wonder if they have been invited in?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 18, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> Sounds like a lawyer's advice, :lol: I can't really say anything right now but I demand attention! He needs to understand that once law enforcement becomes involved there has to be some secrecy and discretion involved and Amtrak doesnt have anything they can do right now, they have already turned over everything they have, seems like the FBI needs to help out the GBI,wonder if they have been invited in?


Despite the cavalier attitude of this thread I would suggest that there's absolutely nothing funny about losing your mother to suspicious circumstances. In all my years of posting I have yet to find another forum where the general membership is so universally indifferent to the suffering of individuals or so completely trusting of convoluted bureaucracies. As George Harris said this is all about jurisdiction, not justice. Any other interests would be nothing more than uninvited observers. I suppose that includes those who actually lost something in this tragedy. But hey, maybe the kid will get lucky and our Rube Goldberg legal system will inadvertently stumble upon the answers while doing its best to get hamstrung on bureaucratic formalities.


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## jimhudson (Sep 18, 2010)

Think you misunderstood bro, the smiley face is in reference to the LAWYER that posted just before me, what I said about Amtrak and police agencies is true, actually the FBI should be helping out on this as I said, but the GBI has jurisdiction and as with all investigations is proceeding per the law! What else can they do, tell the kid your father is the number #1 suspect which is the case in most of these murders,  thats a fact! I fail to see how my attitude is Caviler, I hope whoever did it spends the rest of their miserable life locked up inside a hell hole we call prisons since I dont think the death penalty does anygood, two wrongs dont make a right! This one will be solved as long as politicans and lawyers dont turn it into a media circus! To each his own, your opinion is as valid as mine or anyone elses!


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 18, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> To each his own, your opinion is as valid as mine or anyone elses!


I have yet to give any opinion as to what actually happened to this lady precisely because I honestly have no idea what happened. Others seem to think they know enough to start naming suspects and conducting interviews. Which is fine, I suppose, but there's no reason to mock the concerns of those who are actually involved in the process. If the son thinks there's not enough cooperation then he has every right to say so. If he has to cut himself short that's not his fault. All too often I've seen folks do the wrong thing because they didn't want to risk any trouble for doing the right thing, even by their own admission. Hopefully that's not the case here. I'll take you at your word that you were intending to the refer to the lawyer exclusively but even in that case I don't have the same anti-lawyer views that most people seem to have. Not all lawyers are great folks, and some are absolutely disgusting people, but trying to receive a just and reasonable outcome without one can be much harder than many people seem to realize. Just my two centavos and I'll let y'all get back to your game of Clue.


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## pennyk (Sep 18, 2010)

daxomni said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > To each his own, your opinion is as valid as mine or anyone elses!
> ...


I am the lawyer Jim was poking fun of. He did it as a joke and I did not take offense.


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## VentureForth (Sep 20, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> Sounds like a lawyer's advice, :lol: I can't really say anything right now but I demand attention!
> 
> He needs to understand that once law enforcement becomes involved there has to be some secrecy and discretion involved and Amtrak doesnt have anything they can do right now, they have already turned over everything they have, seems like the FBI needs to help out the GBI,wonder if they have been invited in?


That was sort of my point earlier. Yes, I know that the crime occurred in Georgia, therefore GBI is taking the lead. But given that none of the suspects nor the victim had anything to do with Georgia other than passing through, the FBI should certainly be very much involved. In other words, all the evidence that GBI will have to investigate other than the body is outside of Georgia.


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## Hanno (Sep 21, 2010)

Here is the latest on this case. According to this article it appears as though robbery was not the motive as all the money in her purse (the $1,000) has been accounted for.

This may end up as unsolved just as the case of the man who fell/was pushed out of the Empire Builder about a month ago. Kind of wierd that we have had two such incidents in such a short period of time. I don't remember of any such incidents in recent history! Have there been any other than these two?


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## The Chief (Sep 21, 2010)

*F*rom today's (Tue 21 Sep) _Jacksonville The Florida Times-Union_ online edition:

“It could end up as an undetermined death. Unless we get some credible witnesses and credible evidence, it will have to be undetermined,” GBI's John Bankhead said.
*A*lso, the money was found:

The investigation showed Arteta had about $1,000 at one point in the trip, but spent or gave away all but about $400 cash. That remaining money was found inside her purse, which was with her body when it was found, Bankhead said.
GBI tip line: 800 597-8477


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## boxcar479 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hanno said:


> Here is the latest on this case. According to this article it appears as though robbery was not the motive as all the money in her purse (the $1,000) has been accounted for.
> 
> This may end up as unsolved just as the case of the man who fell/was pushed out of the Empire Builder about a month ago. Kind of wierd that we have had two such incidents in such a short period of time. I don't remember of any such incidents in recent history! Have there been any other than these two?


Has anyone contacted the GBI concerning the earlier death on the Empire Builder. Remember the movie with Danny Glover as a serial killer that rode trains.I'm just sayin'.......


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## Trainmans daughter (Sep 21, 2010)

Wasn't it about a year ago that an elderly gentleman with alzheimers fell out of a train and was discovered dead on the tracks sometime later? I think he was a retired train employee, so some of you suggested that he would know how to open the door and maybe had confused it with the bathroom door. To my knowledge, that was never resolved, either.


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## caravanman (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi,

I haven't read all the posts here, so this point may already have been covered.. My question is simply: Is it real easy for an elderly passenger to open a train door and fall or jump out? If so, Amtrak might need to re-design their safety features. Similarly, I thought most of the windows were non opening? I know there is a window in the door that can be opened, but it would take a determined person to leave by that route..

Discovering how the person left the train would be the first task. We are so used to all these high tech CSI programmes, I guess the reality is a bit different. I would have thought looking around all doors or windows for fingerprints or tissue samples would be high on a CSI list of items to check.

I might pass this case on to my friend, Sheer-Luck Holmes to look at, it's beyond me to solve.

Ed.:cool


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## zephyr17 (Sep 21, 2010)

caravanman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I haven't read all the posts here, so this point may already have been covered.. My question is simply: Is it real easy for an elderly passenger to open a train door and fall or jump out? If so, Amtrak might need to re-design their safety features. Similarly, I thought most of the windows were non opening? I know there is a window in the door that can be opened, but it would take a determined person to leave by that route..
> 
> ...


On Superliners for the exterior door you have to un-dog two latches at the bottom and top of the door, then open it. It is not something you can really do by accident. You have to WANT to get that door open. With that said, it isn't at all hard to do, and is fairly obvious, but it does require deliberate action.


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## Pastor Dave (Sep 27, 2010)

Trainmans daughter said:


> Wasn't it about a year ago that an elderly gentleman with alzheimers fell out of a train and was discovered dead on the tracks sometime later? I think he was a retired train employee, so some of you suggested that he would know how to open the door and maybe had confused it with the bathroom door. To my knowledge, that was never resolved, either.


This story is familiar, although I cannot find anything about it on the web.


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## ISOTT (Sep 29, 2010)

There was no missing money. The family claims that she was found with her money.


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## Ryan (Sep 29, 2010)

Noted, several posts (and over a week) ago.


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## GaSteve (Mar 29, 2011)

"GBI: No foul play in Amtrak passenger death"

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-03-29/story/gbi-no-foul-play-amtrak-passenger-death


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## pennyk (Mar 29, 2011)

GaSteve said:


> "GBI: No foul play in Amtrak passenger death"
> 
> http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-03-29/story/gbi-no-foul-play-amtrak-passenger-death


Thanks for posting the article. Still a mystery in my mind.


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## MrFSS (Mar 29, 2011)

pennyk said:


> GaSteve said:
> 
> 
> > "GBI: No foul play in Amtrak passenger death"
> ...


Maybe there is a TV Show/Movie in there somewhere.


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## Dave (Apr 24, 2012)

There was another similar case along the Empire Builder 3 to five weeks ago, according to Empire Builder list. Found body the next morning along the tracks about 20 minutes from where the passenger should have boarded. Officials could not find any evidence on how passenger left the train. Only way I know to leave train between stations without leaving a window or door open is to be ejected and someone then locks the door or window. I suppose they could make their way to the baggage card and jump out, but I doubt it.

Funny thing - we went out EB about two weeks ago. Returned on Zephyr. There was a strange character we ate lunch with on the Zephyr. A couple of times he made a reference to "those killings", completely out of context because we weren't talking about that topic. He travels extensively by rail throughout Canada, US, and Mexico, he said. If we hear about one on the AMTRAK going up to Michigan day before yesterday, it might be a lead.



pennyk said:


> I just heard on the local Orlando news that a Central Florida woman who was traveling on the Southbound Auto Train yesterday (I think) was reported missing by her husband. Her body was found near the tracks in Jesup, GA. It was reported that a window was open in an emergency exit (I am not sure what they were referring to). It was also reported that the woman had $1,000 in cash with her and it is missing. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is looking into cause of death, how she got off the train, etc. If anyone has heard anything more or different, please post.


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## NE933 (Apr 24, 2012)

So then do we have a serial killer on our trains?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 24, 2012)

Dave said:


> There was a strange character we ate lunch with on the Zephyr. A couple of times he made a reference to "those killings", completely out of context because we weren't talking about that topic. He travels extensively by rail throughout Canada, US, and Mexico, he said. If we hear about one on the AMTRAK going up to Michigan day before yesterday, it might be a lead.


What sort of "lead" would that be?

_Stay on the lookout for a 'strange character' eating food on an Amtrak train. Height Unknown. Weight Unknown. Complexion Unknown. Hair Unknown. Distinguishing Characteristics Unknown. Method Unknown. Motive Unknown. Evidence Unknown. As reported by a random guest post._

Thanks for the "tip" Dave. Now, will you please stop talking about "those killings?" You're kind of freaking me out. :help:


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## Henry Kisor (Apr 24, 2012)

These incidents are not uncommon. Back in the early '90s a Zephyr train chief told a sad story about an elderly woman, presumably an Alzheimer's sufferer, he found trying to open a sleeper vestibule door while the train was at speed. She said she wanted to go out to her patio. He found her husband and asked him to keep an eye on her. The husband, however, appeared to be an alcoholic, so the train chief decided to lock the vestibule doors although in an emergency that might cause a problem. The chief reported the incident to his superior. A week later the Indiana state police contacted him. The woman had been riding the Capitol Limited or Lake Shore Limited, don't remember which, when she at last succeeded in going out to her patio.


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## pennyk (Apr 24, 2012)

Henry Kisor said:


> These incidents are not uncommon. Back in the early '90s a Zephyr train chief told a sad story about an elderly woman, presumably an Alzheimer's sufferer, he found trying to open a sleeper vestibule door while the train was at speed. She said she wanted to go out to her patio. He found her husband and asked him to keep an eye on her. The husband, however, appeared to be an alcoholic, so the train chief decided to lock the vestibule doors although in an emergency that might cause a problem. The chief reported the incident to his superior. A week later the Indiana state police contacted him. The woman had been riding the Capitol Limited or Lake Shore Limited, don't remember which, when she at last succeeded in going out to her patio.


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## me_little_me (Apr 24, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Dave said:
> 
> 
> > There was a strange character we ate lunch with on the Zephyr. A couple of times he made a reference to "those killings", completely out of context because we weren't talking about that topic. He travels extensively by rail throughout Canada, US, and Mexico, he said. If we hear about one on the AMTRAK going up to Michigan day before yesterday, it might be a lead.
> ...


Doesn't Biden take the train a lot?


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## VentureForth (Apr 24, 2012)

me_little_me said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > Dave said:
> ...


Sheesh.

Edit: Either the mods or me little me deleted the post which this post quoted which was to a hateful Republican jab - not about Biden using the train.


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## Ocala Mike (Apr 24, 2012)

I thought the Empire Builder tragedy was no longer a mystery. Seems to me I read, possibly at another site, that the man was intoxicated and had fallen off the train through a superliner door that he opened himself, either accidentally or on purpose.


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## PaulM (Apr 25, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Dave said:
> 
> 
> > There was a strange character we ate lunch with on the Zephyr. A couple of times he made a reference to "those killings", completely out of context because we weren't talking about that topic. He travels extensively by rail throughout Canada, US, and *Mexico*, he said. If we hear about one on the AMTRAK going up to Michigan day before yesterday, it might be a lead.
> ...


But you missed the biggest clue. He also rides freights. As far as I know, the only passenger service in Mexico is a commuter line in Mexico City.


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## VentureForth (Apr 26, 2012)

This thread was resurrected from 2010/11. The EB case thread actually refers back to this one...


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