# 22 Texas Eagle or 422 Texas Eagle? Quick answer?



## Austruck (Oct 2, 2018)

Hey, howdy again!

I'm in the middle of a reservation here and I have a choice of the 22 or the 422 TE. Everything else looks the same, including price.

Is there a difference? Do you guys prefer one over the other?? ACK, didn't expect THIS in the middle of booking this trip!


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 2, 2018)

Grab either. They are the same train.


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## Austruck (Oct 2, 2018)

Thanks! That certainly makes it easy. (Going from Pittsburgh to Houston and back.)


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## TinCan782 (Oct 2, 2018)

Austruck said:


> Thanks! That certainly makes it easy. (Going from Pittsburgh to Houston and back.)


Wait! Either 21/22 or 421/422 Texas Eagle will take you between Chicago and San Antonio. If you are going to *Houston, you will need train #1/2 the Sunset Limited* from San Antonio.

Did I miss something? Perhaps your original question was specifically the Chicago San Antonio portion


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## bratkinson (Oct 3, 2018)

In the dozen or more times I've ridden the TE on #421 or #422, I've been in the sleeper to LAX. It's at the rear of the train STL-SAS (with the thru coach ahead of that), and 2nd from the rear CHI-STL as the single coach train #321 is put behind the LAX sleeper and dropped/added at STL. The 'regular' TE (#21/22) sleepers are in the front, and with the removal of the baggage car, the dorm/sleeper is adjacent to the locomotive and the full sleeper directly behind.

So, book #421/422 if you prefer a quiet night away from the horn.


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## nshvlcat (Oct 3, 2018)

If your endpoint destination is Houston, take 421.


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## jis (Oct 3, 2018)

nshvlcat said:


> If your endpoint destination is Houston, take 421.


Why? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## ehbowen (Oct 3, 2018)

Because austruck will probably be using the Thruway bus connection direct between Longview and Houston to catch her train, as opposed to detouring west through San Antonio. So between Longview and Chicago, it makes no difference. They are in fact the same train; the only difference is whether you ride towards the front (21/22) or rear (421/422) of the train.

With that said, pick 421 and 422 (especially if you're in a sleeper)...it puts you that much farther from the often-annoying locomotive horn noise.


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## cpotisch (Oct 3, 2018)

Here we go again. Between Chicago and San Antonio, it's the same train. 421/422 refers to the through coach and sleeper that continue to and from Los Angeles three days a week, as part of the Sunset Limited. The Eagle usually consists of a Trans-Dorm, a full sleeper, and two coaches (and of course the SSL and CCC). On the days that 421/422 is not running, 21/22 refers to the entire train (except for the #322 STL-CHI coach). When 421/422 is running, 21/22 refers to the non-through coach and the Trans-Dorm. This is why when 421 is running, 21 only offers coach and roomettes. You need to book 421 to get the H room, full Bedroom, or Family Bedroom.

But put simply, when traveling exclusively east of San Antonio, it doesn't make a difference. If you're traveling at all west of San Antonio, you need 421/422.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2018)

On #421 Days from CHI the #21 Sleeper is the Transdorm with Crew ( No Bedrooms) and the #421 Sleeper is the Regular Revenue Sleeper,with Both Sleepers on the front between CHI and San Antonio.

As was said, there is a Bus Bridge between

Longview and Houston.

Since its the same price Id book the #421.

The good news is that there still is a Diner that serves Real Food.( I just rode #21 Monday/Tues to Austin and the Land and Sea andSalmon was Excellent!)


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## cpotisch (Oct 3, 2018)

bratkinson said:


> In the dozen or more times I've ridden the TE on #421 or #422, I've been in the sleeper to LAX. It's at the rear of the train STL-SAS (with the thru coach ahead of that)


Actually the through-sleeper is usually between the Trans-Dorm and the diner (CCC). Sometimes it gets put in the back, but not usually.



bratkinson said:


> The 'regular' TE (#21/22) sleepers are in the front, and with the removal of the baggage car, the dorm/sleeper is adjacent to the locomotive and the full sleeper directly behind.
> 
> So, book #421/422 if you prefer a quiet night away from the horn.


The baggage car is still on the TE. You're thinking of the Sunset.


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## ehbowen (Oct 3, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Actually the through-sleeper is usually between the Trans-Dorm and the diner (CCC). Sometimes it gets put in the back, but not usually.


I'm not saying it's never there (between transdorm and diner), but I've never seen it there (at least on 421/422). It's always been at the rear. Every single time I've taken it (which, I admit, is something like .02% of all scheduled departures).


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## Austruck (Oct 3, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> Because austruck will probably be using the Thruway bus connection direct between Longview and Houston to catch her train, as opposed to detouring west through San Antonio. So between Longview and Chicago, it makes no difference. They are in fact the same train; the only difference is whether you ride towards the front (21/22) or rear (421/422) of the train.
> 
> With that said, pick 421 and 422 (especially if you're in a sleeper)...it puts you that much farther from the often-annoying locomotive horn noise.


Sorry I didn't offer more information. I didn't realize I should have! YES, I'm using the thruway bus connection from Longview in both directions. A friend's picking me up there.


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## Austruck (Oct 3, 2018)

I've booked the #21 heading from PGH/CHI to HOUSTON (via Longview bus) and the #422 coming back (also via Longview). I have roomettes on all legs.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2018)

Austruck said:


> I've booked the #21 heading from PGH/CHI to HOUSTON (via Longview bus) and the #422 coming back (also via Longview). I have roomettes on all legs.


Outstanding!
Hopefully you'll be in the Sleeper that's on the Front of the Train on #422 instead of on the rear so you are close to the Diner(CCC) and Sightseer Lounge instead of having to schlep through several Coaches to eat and Sightsee.( Arkansas and Missouri will mostly be in the Dark if on time.)

The Thruway Buses to Shrevport and Houston park @ the West end of the Station on the Street. I suggest you NOT check your Bags so you can go straight to the Bus and get a good seat on the Bus.( your Bags go under the Bus, you can carry on small items).

There will be a Lunch stop between Longview and Houston in Nachodoches @ a Truck Stop with Fast Food Choices. You'll have eaten Breakfast before the Longview stop on #21.


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## cpotisch (Oct 3, 2018)

Austruck said:


> I've booked the #21 heading from PGH/CHI to HOUSTON (via Longview bus) and the #422 coming back (also via Longview). I have roomettes on all legs.


Sorry, so you're booked on the Capitol Limited from Pittsburgh to Chicago, and then TE #21 from Chicago to Longview? 'Cause from the way you phrased that it sounds to me like you think you'll be on the TE the whole way...


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2018)

Yep,you'll be on #29 the Cap Ltd. PGH-CHI leaving @ O-Dark-Thirty and get the Fresh and Contemporary Boxed Breakfast.

Take Advantage of the Nice,New Metro Lounge during the Layover in Chicago.( the Less said about the PGH Dungeon the better)

Also I suggest you use a RedCap to get to/from the Platform if you're not familiar with Union Station.Best $5 you can spend while visiting Large,Busy Stations.


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## penguinflies (Dec 26, 2018)

Quick added question. Is the Longview to Houston bus a full sized bus?  Riding in February, hoping it's a long distance bus with facilities.


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## frequentflyer (Dec 26, 2018)

penguinflies said:


> Quick added question. Is the Longview to Houston bus a full sized bus?  Riding in February, hoping it's a long distance bus with facilities.


Good question. If its like the Killeen-Temple shuttle it will be a 16 pax van. However thats a long drive between Longview and Houston, I hope it is a motor coach.

Per the OP, this has to close to the top in the most asked question here. Is it 421/422 in the computer system because its only three days a week?


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## SanAntonioClyde (Dec 26, 2018)

currently your plan to take dedicated Amtrak bus is best plan, since you would have up to 10 hour middle of night layover here in San Antonio.  not the best. if a few years when high speed rail is completed then you will have another option.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 26, 2018)

The Longview to Houston /Galveston Shuttle is a full sized  Charter Bus. The Shrevport-Longview Shuttle is mostly a Van, but depending on the Passenger Load can be a Bus.

And the 421/422 Trains are indeed a 3 times a week Cutout  Coach and Sleeper between Chicago and LA that are switched to the Sunset Ltd(421)/Texas Eagle(422) in San Antonio.


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## TinCan782 (Dec 26, 2018)

frequentflyer said:


> Per the OP, this has to close to the top in the most asked question here. Is it 421/422 in the computer system because its only three days a week?


I don't see "three days a week" being the reason. Besides being only three days a week, 421/422 describes the LAX/CHI "through" cars on both the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle. I believe that is the reason for 421/422.


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## ehbowen (Dec 26, 2018)

penguinflies said:


> Quick added question. Is the Longview to Houston bus a full sized bus?  Riding in February, hoping it's a long distance bus with facilities.


It's a full-sized bus with restroom, but the driver will probably tell you to use the restroom only in a dire emergency since (as he said) it's directly over the engine compartment and can generate the most unpleasant odors...

These buses (in recent experience) have at-seat electrical outlets and on-board WI-fi. The WI-fi is slow and spotty; I had better coverage from my T-mobile unlimited data plan. But, at least it's there. A 20-minute stop is made at a truck stop in Nacogdoches both northbound and southbound; you can stretch your legs, use a real restroom, and grab a snack. You can eat it on board but be sure to dispose of your garbage and leftovers properly; the drivers are very particular about this (which is good).


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## the_traveler (Dec 26, 2018)

I am still confused when you say book either 421 or 422. :wacko:

Since they’re the same train as 21 or 22, and both stop in Longview, why should someone take 421 or 422 specifically? Many times 421/422 costs more than 21/22. My recommendation is to choose the one with the lower fare.

If the fare on 421 is $309, but on 21 it’s only $234, why do you say to take 421 only? :huh:


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## cpotisch (Dec 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> I am still confused when you say book either 421 or 422. :wacko:
> 
> Since they’re the same train as 21 or 22, and both stop in Longview, why should someone take 421 or 422 specifically? Many times 421/422 costs more than 21/22. My recommendation is to choose the one with the lower fare.
> 
> If the fare on 421 is $309, but on 21 it’s only $234, why do you say to take 421 only? :huh:


Most people seemed to be suggesting 421/422 because it’s further away from the engine and horn. 21/22 is the Trans-Dorm (second car, after the baggage car) between San Antonio and Chicago, while 421/422 is the full sleeper (third car). And I guess some people may or may not prefer the Trans-Dorm itself, so that’s another factor.


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## cpotisch (Dec 26, 2018)

frequentflyer said:


> Per the OP, this has to close to the top in the most asked question here. Is it 421/422 in the computer system because its only three days a week?


It’s just to distinguish the CHI-LAX Eagle/Sunset through-service from the standard CHI-SAS Eagle. I don’t think that it simply being thrice-weekly would necessitate its own numbering.


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## the_traveler (Dec 26, 2018)

Actually it does.

On the days that the TE operates to/from LAX, the full sleeper is 421/422 and the trans-dorm is 21/22. On the other 4 days, both are 21/22 only.


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## cpotisch (Dec 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Actually it does.
> 
> On the days that the TE operates to/from LAX, the full sleeper is 421/422 and the trans-dorm is 21/22. On the other 4 days, both are 21/22 only.


I know that. But in and of itself, the fact that you can only go west of SAS three days a week, wouldn’t not necessitate its own numbering. It’s the fact that it’s a special through-car situation that necessitates different numbering.


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## the_traveler (Dec 26, 2018)

It does, because 4 days a week there is no train 421/422. Thus you can not book a room on 421/422 on those 4 days at all.


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## cpotisch (Dec 26, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> It does, because 4 days a week there is no train 421/422. Thus you can not book a room on 421/422 on those 4 days at all.


You’re using circular logic. If it was just that three days a week the TE continues on to LAX as its _own full train_ (which it is not), then there would be no need for the 421/422 numbering on top of the standard 21/22. It’s the fact that only certain cars continue past SAS as part of the Sunset, that requires having 21/22 AND 421/422.


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## the_traveler (Dec 26, 2018)

Try to make a res from CHI to DAL on Sunday 1/27 (a day the TE goes to LAX). It gives options for both 21 and 421. (In fact, 21 is available but 421 is sold out.) Now try Monday 1/28 (where it just goes to SAS) - it only gives 21(because “train 421” does not operate that day).


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## ehbowen (Dec 26, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> You’re using circular logic. If it was just that three days a week the TE continues on to LAX as its _own full train_ (which it is not), then there would be no need for the 421/422 numbering on top of the standard 21/22. It’s the fact that only certain cars continue past SAS as part of the Sunset, that requires having 21/22 AND 421/422.


I have to agree with cpotisch. If the _Sunset Limited_ was moved to a daily schedule NOL-LAX (Oh, to dream!) and the current situation with the through cars to Chicago via SAS and D-FW continued unchanged, the _Texas Eagle_ would still have to operate as Trains 21/421 and 22/422 to distinguish between the cars which operated differing itineraries. Think about it: The extra coach which operates CHI-STL runs 7 days a week, and it has its own "train number" (321/322).


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## bratkinson (Dec 27, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I know that. But in and of itself, the fact that you can only go west of SAS three days a week, wouldn’t not necessitate its own numbering. It’s the fact that it’s a special through-car situation that necessitates different numbering.


I think there's actually 2 big reasons the through cars are treated as a separate train...and they hold true for 27/28 and 448/449, too:

1.  For passengers going through to destinations not on the 'base' train number, it guarantees they are in the correct car(s) when they board and thus, will not have to change cars in the middle of the night or anywhere along the way.  A one-seat ride is preferable to move all your stuff enroute for passengers.

2.  As I understand it, the Amtrak reservation system is based on ARROW, which they purchased or licensed from an airline.  Airplanes cannot have two terminating cities for the same flight, nor can they have intermediate stops available to some passengers only (such as Springfield MA on train 48/49 to/from NYP if it were all one flight/train number).  Put another way, the antique by todays' standards computer system is 'too dumb' (eg, not programmed) to handle such situations.  As a former author and marketer of licensed software, the customer/licensee NEVER gets a copy of the source code unless they really want to pay through the nose.  The same is true for professional photographers NEVER providing all their shots nor their RAW files, either.


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## cpotisch (Dec 27, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> Try to make a res from CHI to DAL on Sunday 1/27 (a day the TE goes to LAX). It gives options for both 21 and 421. (In fact, 21 is available but 421 is sold out.) Now try Monday 1/28 (where it just goes to SAS) - it only gives 21(because “train 421” does not operate that day).


I’m not at all arguing with that, Dave, and I never was. I’m just saying that the fact that that it goes to LAX three days a week in and of itself would not require the separate 421/422 numbering. It is the fact that it is a through-car service that necessitates a 421/422.


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## cpotisch (Dec 27, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > On 12/26/2018 at 7:24 PM, cpotisch said:
> ...


This!!! Thank you for translating what I was _trying_ to say! Thank you!


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## John Santos (Dec 27, 2018)

I don't think the limitations of the booking software has much if anything to do with the fact that some trains have multiple numbers for the same physical train.  Someone very recently posted copies of the current CONO schedule and the schedule from 1947 in a different thread.  The 1947 schedule had about 4 different train numbers for the cars that went from CHI to NOL, and the cars originating or separating for different starting points or destinations, such as St Louis.  The main train was 1/2 and the other cars were 201/202. 301/302, etc.  So the numbering scheme originated long before computerized ticketing.

I want to call the different pieces of the train "sections" (e.g. the SAS section of the TE and the LAX section),  but at least in the distant past, the term "section" referred to to a whole separate train following immediately after the first train with the same route, stops and destinations, used when the first train was full.  I read somewhere that 2nd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th sections were not uncommon on busy trains like the 20th Century Limited.

Also, in the past, splitting or joining trains at intermediate stations was far more common than it is today.  AMTRAK only has 3 such trains (that I know of), the LSL, EB and TE/SL.   I don't know if for the few trains where some of the coaches don't go all the way, they use separate numbers for the non-through coaches, or if they just tell people which car to board based on their destinations, and then announce that if you are continuing on, you need to move all your self and your carry-ons to another car as  you approach the station where they are about to detach a car.


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## bratkinson (Dec 27, 2018)

John Santos said:


> Also, in the past, splitting or joining trains at intermediate stations was far more common than it is today.  AMTRAK only has 3 such trains (that I know of), the LSL, EB and TE/SL.   I don't know if for the few trains where some of the coaches don't go all the way, they use separate numbers for the non-through coaches, or if they just tell people which car to board based on their destinations, and then announce that if you are continuing on, you need to move all your self and your carry-ons to another car as  you approach the station where they are about to detach a car.


If I recall correctly, both the Silver Star and Silver Meteor would split/join sections in Florida...one to MIA and the other to TPA/St Pete/Clearwater.  I think the Floridian split as well.  Some splits occurred at JAX, others in the middle of nowhere at Auburndale.  I think the reason the Auburndale splits ended was the switch to HEP that  was beyond the conductor/assistant conductor job descriptions.  Then they gave up the splits entirely in JAX maybe 10-15 years ago.  Perhaps it was even longer considering the road-railer games at JAX back then.

As far as dropping/adding cars along the way, I know train 321/322 is the CHI-STL coach dropped/added at STL.  I've witnessed that multiple times at STL.  There's sometimes a CHI-MSP coach behind 27/28, summer only, I think.  I don't know what train numbers they use for that car, though.


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## cpotisch (Dec 27, 2018)

John Santos said:


> I don't know if for the few trains where some of the coaches don't go all the way, they use separate numbers for the non-through coaches, or if they just tell people which car to board based on their destinations, and then announce that if you are continuing on, you need to move all your self and your carry-ons to another car as  you approach the station where they are about to detach a car.


There are two cases in the Amtrak system of short turned cars having their own numbering: the year round 321/322 STL-CHI coach on the Texas Eagle, and the peak season 807/808 MSP-CHI coach on the Empire Builder.

There are also multiple cases in the Amtrak system of cars without their own train number being short turned to serve high demand segments, but I can only think of two off the top of my head. There are the NYP-WAS coaches that run every day on the Palmetto, and the _occasional_ CHI-KCY extra coach on the Southwest Chief.


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 28, 2018)

bratkinson said:


> I think there's actually 2 big reasons the through cars are treated as a separate train...and they hold true for 27/28 and 448/449, too:
> 
> 1.  For passengers going through to destinations not on the 'base' train number, it guarantees they are in the correct car(s) when they board and thus, will not have to change cars in the middle of the night or anywhere along the way.  A one-seat ride is preferable to move all your stuff enroute for passengers.


There is truth to this...assuming they were in those cars to begin with. You can ride another section of the same train and move to the appropriate section at another point.



bratkinson said:


> 2.  As I understand it, the Amtrak reservation system is based on ARROW, which they purchased or licensed from an airline.  Airplanes cannot have two terminating cities for the same flight, nor can they have intermediate stops available to some passengers only (such as Springfield MA on train 48/49 to/from NYP if it were all one flight/train number).  Put another way, the antique by todays' standards computer system is 'too dumb' (eg, not programmed) to handle such situations.  As a former author and marketer of licensed software, the customer/licensee NEVER gets a copy of the source code unless they really want to pay through the nose.  The same is true for professional photographers NEVER providing all their shots nor their RAW files, either.


I'm not sure this has a valid application. While that may be true, they had the same system in place and there plenty of unreserved trains that split. They also had through numbers. I'm specifically thinking of the  SPG shuttles, which used to split/combine with their main train NHV. 

At any rate, I believe John Santos has the closest application. It is left over from when trains ran into different sections. While it isn't really as necessary these days, there are "probably"  sections of trains that are listed with different numbers strictly from an accounting point of view....whether you can see them or not.

The NHV cutoff comes to mind.  it is numberless in the timetable. During the outage in NYP, 89 originally had a separate number for 51's connecting passengers.

I think we're straying though.


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