# I want to take a trip using points



## Bigval109 (Dec 4, 2008)

I live in zone one nec Richmond VA. We want to go to LA in a sleeper. So We want to use my points from the start of zone 2 to LA round trip. The trouble is since I live in NEC I will need to buy 2 tickets to the beginning of zone 2. Will the conductor let us into the sleeper if I give him both tickets or will he come and get me in the middle of the night to go to the sleeper? Or could I possibly upgrade on board to the sleeper I will be in?


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## the_traveler (Dec 4, 2008)

Maybe, maybe and yes.

Another h34r: idea - if a coach ticket is cheaper than a ticket to the zone border you are thinking about (and you love extra train time :lol: ) - is to buy a ticket from your station to Atlanta, GA!  ATL happens to be a border city. Thus, it is in the Midwest zone.

From ATL, it is a 2 zone award to LAX! However due to the routing of the Crescent, you must travel via either CVS or WAS to head west! B) And if you have a sleeper award, *ALL* nights (including on the Crescent) are in a sleeper! B) And as a bonus, you may even take the infamous loophole trip (via PDX) from ATL to LAX! 

*EDIT* - Or by getting a coach award from your station to ATL and then a 2 zone sleeper award ATL-LAX, the total point cost for 1 person drops from 35K/50K for a 3 zone sleeper award to 25.5K/35.5K for 3+ zones!


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## ralfp (Dec 5, 2008)

Bigval109 said:


> I live in zone one nec Richmond VA. We want to go to LA in a sleeper. So We want to use my points from the start of zone 2 to LA round trip. The trouble is since I live in NEC I will need to buy 2 tickets to the beginning of zone 2.


If you mean per person, that's wrong. If you mean total, that's correct. A 1 zone ticket will get you to the border of zone 2. The problem is two coach 1 zone tickets total 11,000 points. You might as well get a roomette for 4000 more.



Bigval109 said:


> Will the conductor let us into the sleeper if I give him both tickets or will he come and get me in the middle of the night to go to the sleeper? Or could I possibly upgrade on board to the sleeper I will be in?


If you try this trick, do it on the Cardinal, as it crosses the zone border in Cincinnati at 1AM (versus 5AM for the CL or LSL).


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 8, 2008)

Another option, the big "2-zone loophole" from Atlanta to LA. It connects in DC.

It would be possible to get from DC to LA and back just using TWO 2-zone awards.

Just do not use the ticket from DC-ATL & ATL-DC

This is assuming it would be allowed. I know the airlines really hate this practice.

Years ago, flights to LA were much cheaper then flights to Houston, even though the LA flight connects in houston. So, I would just not reboard in Houston.

However, these days, the airline will void the return ticket if you did that.


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## the_traveler (Dec 8, 2008)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> Another option, the big "2-zone loophole" from Atlanta to LA. It connects in DC.
> Just do not use the ticket from DC-ATL & ATL-DC
> 
> This is assuming it would be allowed.


Although Amtrak would not just void the trip (because it takes a few days for the tickets to get processed), I wouldn't be surprised to find another 15,000 points removed from your account because you boarded in zone 1 instead of zone 2! Or worse yet, they could *CLOSE* the loophole and move the border along the Crescent line to NOL!  (That would ruin it for all of us! :angry: )

I personally would rather spend 5,500 for a coach reward, have a few extra miles and a few extra nights on the train - and save ~10K points!


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 8, 2008)

The_Traveler said:


> Another option, the big "2-zone loophole" from Atlanta to LA. It connects in DC.
> (That would ruin it for all of us! :angry: )
> 
> I personally would rather spend 5,500 for a coach reward, have a few extra miles and a few extra nights on the train - and save ~10K points!



Just wondering how long has the loophole been there and how long do you count on it lasting?


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## the_traveler (Dec 8, 2008)

Long Train Runnin said:


> Just wondering how long has the loophole been there and how long do you count on it lasting?


It's been around a few years. At one time, the border between the East and Midwest zones was the CONO with CHI, MEM, NOL and in fact all CONO station in both the East and Midwest zones! Then they revised the borders to TOL, CIN and ATL. But that left the stations between ATL and SDL with the loophole!

How long will it last? Who knows! But *I* would not to be the one who caused it to be closed - because I booked from ATL to get a 2 zone award but got on in WAS instead!

There was a time also that you could get a 100 point minimum per segment (even on the same train). But I think it was abused royally, and that loophole was closed, and is now only for different number trains. And recently, it got restricted more to no more than 4 segments per day!


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## AlanB (Dec 8, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
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> > Just wondering how long has the loophole been there and how long do you count on it lasting?
> ...


I've been in AGR since it was created, joined within the first week in fact, and I don't recall the zones ever being different than they are today. The only real changes to awards, beyond increases in certain categories, was the creation of the Northeast zone and the 1,000 point special trains.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 8, 2008)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
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So that means Amtrak has figured it out right :blink: and even if they do will they care and close it up or just let it go. I mean I guess it hurts them when people end up on the EB and then the CS lol but does it really matter in the grand scheme of amtrak things?


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## the_traveler (Dec 8, 2008)

AlanB said:


> I've been in AGR since it was created, joined within the first week in fact, and I don't recall the zones ever being different than they are today. The only real changes to awards, beyond increases in certain categories, was the creation of the Northeast zone and the 1,000 point special trains.


It was before I joined AGR, but I clearly recall seeing a zone chart showing


the East zone to include cities like BOS, WAS, ORL, CHI, MEM and NOL

the Midwest zone to include CHI, MEM, NOL, ELP, ABQ, DEN and WPT

the West zone to include WPT, DEN, ABQ, ELP. LAX, EMY, PDX and SEA


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## sechs (Dec 9, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > I've been in AGR since it was created, joined within the first week in fact, and I don't recall the zones ever being different than they are today. The only real changes to awards, beyond increases in certain categories, was the creation of the Northeast zone and the 1,000 point special trains.
> ...


Back in March of 2001:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010405142714/...&CATEGORY=T

The redemption chart and zones look remarkably as today....


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## the_traveler (Dec 9, 2008)

So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years. I'm sure that AGR must know about it then. As long as it's not abused (like booking from ATL but boarding in WAS), *I* hope it will stay! (I'm sure that I'm not the only one either.)


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## saxman (Dec 9, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years. I'm sure that AGR must know about it then. As long as it's not abused (like booking from ATL but boarding in WAS), *I* hope it will stay! (I'm sure that I'm not the only one either.)


I'm about to try and book a loophole trip as well. I want to end up in Seattle from Slidell. And when I type it in to the reservation system, it gives me a choice of via LAX on the SWC, then the Starlight. I'm trying to get it to go on the Zephyr though.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 9, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years. I'm sure that AGR must know about it then.


I agree- I think its a matter of simple logistics.

The current "zone" method is an extremely simple way to administrate a "Frequent Rider Program". The AGR staff does not even need to understand rail, or amtrak, or anything. They just use the same system we use, and basically BUY our tickets for us.

Plus, while the Slidell to LA is a "loophole" for some, for someone who wants to go from DC to Chicago the 2-zone trip seems much less cost effecient. I'm sure AGR just looks at it as it all balances in the end.

(Granted, you could do DC-Chicago as a one zone by doing DC-Port Huron, but anyway)

For me, I could take a 2-Zone trip from Portland, Maine to El Paso, Texas. No "loophole" but almost the same amount of time in a train as the Slidell-LA one. Cost is about the same as well.


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## sechs (Dec 9, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years.


How long has there been no connections in New Orleans?


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## the_traveler (Dec 10, 2008)

sechs said:


> the_traveler said:
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> > So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years.
> ...


Except for the Sunset East, there never (as far as Amtrak) were any same day connections in NOL between the Crescent, CONO and SL.


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## sechs (Dec 10, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> sechs said:
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Same day? The Sunset Limited didn't even connect with itself same-day!


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## the_traveler (Dec 11, 2008)

sechs said:


> the_traveler said:
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> > Except for the Sunset East, there never (as far as Amtrak) were any same day connections in NOL between the Crescent, CONO and SL.
> ...


If you were lucky, you could connect from the southbound CONO (mid afternoon) to the Sunset East (late evening) in NOL. With luck, I think you might also have connected from the southbound Crescent to the Sunset East. And with a lot of luck, the Sunset West and Sunset East ran through and connected!


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## Bigval109 (Jan 22, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> So the "loophole" has been around for a number of years. I'm sure that AGR must know about it then. As long as it's not abused (like booking from ATL but boarding in WAS), *I* hope it will stay! (I'm sure that I'm not the only one either.)


 The agr lady told me that my trip would be cancelled if I tried to use that path atl to okj and get on in was. She did tell me I could use it on the way back and get off the train in was if I wanted. So I used your ideas for my trip by booking from lax back to atl with points but I will get off in was on my way home.then take a train to ric from was home. What I want to know is what do I do with the ticket from was to atl. And would it help if I cancelled that segment of my trip when I get to washington?


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## the_traveler (Jan 22, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> What I want to know is what do I do with the ticket from was to atl. And would it help if I cancelled that segment of my trip when I get to washington?


*DO NOT (UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES) CANCEL YOUR WAS-ATL SEGMENT!* If you do so, you will have taken a 3-zone award trip (LAX-WAS) - and you will be charged for a 3-zone award!


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## Bigval109 (Jan 22, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> Bigval109 said:
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> > What I want to know is what do I do with the ticket from was to atl. And would it help if I cancelled that segment of my trip when I get to washington?
> ...


So what should I do. Will there be any problem for me not getting on the was to atl train? I have purchased a ticket from was to ric inorder to get home.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 22, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> the_traveler said:
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Don't cancel the WAS-ATL segment. Just no-show and don't use it. Take your WAS-RIC (actually RVR is Amtrak-speak) home. After you no-show, Amtrak might put the hidden-city two and two together after the fact, but I doubt it. However, if you call and cancel, you will have done the math for them. It's too bad that they system is set up in such a way that this has to be done, but it is.


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## Bigval109 (Jan 23, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> Bigval109 said:
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> > the_traveler said:
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So I just keep the was to atl tickets as a souvineer. Then take the was to rvr train on home. Is that correct? Will this come back to haunt me the next agr trip I take? Thanks for all your help. With all this stuff going on in the world I need a train ride to get my nerves together.


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## the_traveler (Jan 23, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> So I just keep the was to atl tickets as a souvineer. Then take the was to rvr train on home. Is that correct? Will this come back to haunt me the next agr trip I take?


Yes, yes and it shouldn't.


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## Bigval109 (Feb 27, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> Bigval109 said:
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> > So I just keep the was to atl tickets as a souvineer. Then take the was to rvr train on home. Is that correct? Will this come back to haunt me the next agr trip I take?
> ...


Well I'm all set just waiting for MAY  The way things are going right now in the country I really need a train ride to get my nerves together. Pray for our country.


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## nferr (Mar 2, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > I've been in AGR since it was created, joined within the first week in fact, and I don't recall the zones ever being different than they are today. The only real changes to awards, beyond increases in certain categories, was the creation of the Northeast zone and the 1,000 point special trains.
> ...


I believe that was the old "All Aboard America" fare zones. There was discounted fares for one, two, or three zones with a 30 day travel limt. You were allowed one stopover in each direction too. Sleepers of course were extra. I used these quite a few times.


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## the_traveler (Mar 2, 2009)

nferr said:


> the_traveler said:
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I think you are right! (My mistake!  ) I used them too!


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## Bigval109 (Nov 22, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> the_traveler said:
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well it's that time of year again when I start to work on my may vacation. Have things changed any since you help me put together my last two zone trip? This time I'm planning to go to OKJ using the 2 zone reward starting in cin and using the atlanta loophole to get back to was from lax. Are there anythings I should be on the lookout for?


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## the_traveler (Nov 22, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> well it's that time of year again when I start to work on my may vacation. Have things changed any since you help me put together my last two zone trip? This time I'm planning to go to OKJ using the 2 zone reward starting in cin and using the atlanta loophole to get back to was from lax. Are there anythings I should be on the lookout for?


No, it should be the same.

One suggestion, if you have the time, is to go via BUF. You mentioned going via CIN - would that be in coach to get there? :huh: CIN is the middle of the night, and I'm not sure if you will get a room to get there. You can go RVR-BUF for 3,000 points in coach. Then you can buy a cheap coach ticket (IIRC <$20) to TOL, and start your 2 zone award there!


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## Bigval109 (Nov 23, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> Bigval109 said:
> 
> 
> > well it's that time of year again when I start to work on my may vacation. Have things changed any since you help me put together my last two zone trip? This time I'm planning to go to OKJ using the 2 zone reward starting in cin and using the atlanta loophole to get back to was from lax. Are there anythings I should be on the lookout for?
> ...


Yes we will be going coach to cin. It was cheaper than going to tol. Plus we will also be on the same train when our reward trip kicks in. This will be my sister's first LD trip by train. Plus I'm hoping the attendant will let us in the room earlier if it is not occupied. not looking for a free meal or anything.


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2009)

One thing I didn't mention is on the RVR-BUF routing, you can also use it on the LSL (I did  ) so at midnight, you would be on the same train going to TOL!  And the chances of an empty room may be better. (The LSL is daily, and carries 3 sleepers. The Cardinal runs only 3 times a week - and only carries 1 sleeper and part of that is also used by the crew!)


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