# Uber vs. a regular taxicab



## MARC Rider

I did my first Uber ride a few weeks ago. Here are my impressions:

UBER

Pros:

Cars were available right around the corner from where I was standing.

I knew the exact fare before I boarded.

The ride was prepaid, so when I got to my destination, all I had to do was hop out and not have to fumble with money, credit card, tec.

Cons:

Driver was to talkative, asking all kinds of personal questions about my business that were none of his business.

The exact location of where I was picked up and dropped off is now sitting in Uber's database, and no doubt already sold to other marketers. Fortunately I'm not paranoid, but if I ever end up in some sort of court case, and counsel for either side starts asking why I was at such and such a location at such and such a date and time, I will be.

There were lots of cars near my location because I was downtown in a major city at the tail end of rush hour. That may not always be true in every place at every time.

The fare, while not excessive, was not the super bargain that some people make it out to be.

STANDARD TAXI

Pros:

If you are arriving at an airport of train station, there's always a line of them waiting for you -- no need to wait.

Drivers will usually shut up if they see you don't want to talk.

Cons:

Unless you negotiate a fixed fare, you are never sure what the final fare will be, and you have to fumble with money or credit card at the end of the ride to pay.

It may be a little more expensive than Uber.

In general, I would see no point in fumbling with a smartphone to hail an Uber when arriving at an airport or train station where there are many cabs lined up ready to go. Also, for those 5 AM rides to the airport of train station from my home in a quiet residential neighborhood, I see no difference between calling an Uber or calling my local cab company to pick me up at a certain time.

In fact, the only advantage I see that Uber gives is having the exact fare prepaid before you board. I seems to me that conventional can companies could do the same, so in general I don't plan to be a regular Uber customer, though I may use it on occasion if I can't find a cab.


----------



## PerRock

There is a lot of variance between cities for Uber/Lyft vs Taxi.

Some things to consider: Not all stations & airports are going to have taxi ranks, or even have a taxi waiting. The Ann Arbor station for instance has a taxi rank, but there isn't always a cab there when the train arrives. This is especially true for when trains are late. Chances are if the train is late the cabs aren't going to be sitting there waiting for it to rive & will go find a fare elsewhere. Additionally some airports now are banning Uber/Lyft pickups from their property. Conversely some cities ban cab from picking up people in non-taxi rank areas, but an Uber/Lyft can.

Cost comparison of fares is going to vary a ton from city to city. The City of Ann Arbor sets a rate that all taxis use within the city with curbside pickup, Uber/Lyft aren't confined to that rate & so can be cheaper. In A2 if you call ahead you now are using a "limousine service" and so the cab doesn't have to follow the city's rate (they should tell you the rate/amount ahead of time). Additionally if you leave the city limits other rates may apply & a taxi might not tell you; with Uber/Lyft you won't get any surprises.

Most cabs & limos have gps systems on board, which I'm pretty certain track your route as well; they probably won't sell that data, but it's sitting there on a server. If you pay by CC or pre-order you're name & such will be attached to that trip.

Personally I use Lyft somewhat regularly when coming home from the bars, I've yet to try it from an Airport or Train Station but usually when at the bar I "hail" a Lyft as we're signing our checks. This gives the car a few mins to get to the specific bar we're at as they may be a block or two away. With Lyft you can add a not to the hail, usually reserved for "complex" instructions (which building or entrance, etc) but you could note that you're arriving on the train, and the driver _should_ wait (although if I were a driver and someone asked to be picked up from the train station, I'd presume their getting off a train...)

Locally I find Lyft rates to be cheaper then taxis around town here, although often not by much. But my real preferance locally to taking a Lyft over a Cab is actually safety. I've seen in & ridden in enough cabs here that do outright dangerous and illegal things (running red lights, swerving in and out of pedestrain-heavy traffic, driving off while people are still getting in, to name a few) that I really don't want to use them. Alternatively I've had very few safety complaints for Lyft.

peter


----------



## crabby_appleton1950

I've taken over 200 Uber rides in the past 2 years. It's now my main type of transportation for shopping, doctors, pharmacy, etc.

Never had I had a driver ask personal questions or be too talkative.

If I'm talkative, they usually respond in kind. Same as when I'm quiet.

Never have I had my pick up and drop off info used in any marketing, or in any way.

Uber usually shows up in about 6 minutes. Uber is cheaper than a cab.

In the past I've waited up to 90 minutes for a taxi. The last taxi I called took 45 minutes to arrive.

And no, I don't drive for Uber. I'm a 70 year old disabled guy.


----------



## hermit

Uber all the way! You know the price in advance and you don't get driven in circles for a bigger fare!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

MARC Rider said:


> UBER Pros: Cars were available right around the corner from where I was standing. I knew the exact fare before I boarded. The ride was prepaid, so when I got to my destination, all I had to do was hop out and not have to fumble with money, credit card, tec.


Just to be clear the fare you see at pickup is an estimate. The final fare can still change after you depart due to congestion, construction, rerouting, etc.



MARC Rider said:


> Driver was to talkative, asking all kinds of personal questions about my business that were none of his business.


My experience has been the exact opposite. Probably because of the rating system. You can give nosy Uber drivers a negative rating. If they get too many negative ratings they can be denied access to Uber requests. Can't do that with a taxi driver no matter what they say or do.



MARC Rider said:


> The exact location of where I was picked up and dropped off is now sitting in Uber's database, and no doubt already sold to other marketers. Fortunately I'm not paranoid, but if I ever end up in some sort of court case, and counsel for either side starts asking why I was at such and such a location at such and such a date and time, I will be.


Uber has this in their database and so do taxi companies. Chances are your trip will be tracked, mapped, and recorded regardless of which service you choose. Even if you pay by cash there is a video record of your face entering and exiting your taxi.



MARC Rider said:


> The fare, while not excessive, was not the super bargain that some people make it out to be.


I tend to save around 30-50% when using Uber X over a conventional taxi. Uber Black is every bit as expensive as a taxi, if not more so, but is also much newer, nicer, cleaner, and more dependable.



MARC Rider said:


> STANDARD TAXI Pros: If you are arriving at an airport of train station, there's always a line of them waiting for you -- no need to wait.


I've waited for taxis at airports and train stations in cities throughout the country and around the world. The taxis queue up in their line and the passengers queue up in their line. It's pretty rare that there is no wait unless you're arriving at Bumblefork Non-international Airport in the middle of Cracker Barrel County.



MARC Rider said:


> Cons: Unless you negotiate a fixed fare, you are never sure what the final fare will be, and you have to fumble with money or credit card at the end of the ride to pay. It may be a little more expensive than Uber.


In my experience the vast majority of taxi drivers will claim their card reader has mysteriously failed in a manner which is impossible to fix and will either refuse to call in the charge by phone or will sabotage the attempt with nonsense. That is a major problem late at night after a long international trip when all you want to do is get home and all the taxi driver cares about is hiding his income from the government.



MARC Rider said:


> In general, I would see no point in fumbling with a smartphone to hail an Uber when arriving at an airport or train station where there are many cabs lined up ready to go.


Here at my own hometown airport there is a designated area for ride sharing vehicles. You initiate the ride when you disembark your aircraft and by the time you reach the curb your Uber or Lyft vehicle is already waiting for you. That's kind of the final nail in the taxi coffin, at least in my view.



MARC Rider said:


> In fact, the only advantage I see that Uber gives is having the exact fare prepaid before you board. I seems to me that conventional can companies could do the same, so in general I don't plan to be a regular Uber customer, though I may use it on occasion if I can't find a cab.


Another thing you either left out or didn't ride enough to notice is that Uber/Lyft drivers are far less likely to ignore your directions or pad the route with extra mileage.


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

Devil's Advocate said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> UBER Pros: Cars were available right around the corner from where I was standing. I knew the exact fare before I boarded. The ride was prepaid, so when I got to my destination, all I had to do was hop out and not have to fumble with money, credit card, tec.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear the fare you see at pickup is an estimate. The final fare can still change after you depart due to congestion, construction, rerouting, etc.
Click to expand...


Not true anymore with UberPOOL they will guarantee your fare at the time you request the ride. So the price you see when you request is what you will be charged.


----------



## jebr

Long Train Runnin' said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> UBER Pros: Cars were available right around the corner from where I was standing. I knew the exact fare before I boarded. The ride was prepaid, so when I got to my destination, all I had to do was hop out and not have to fumble with money, credit card, tec.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear the fare you see at pickup is an estimate. The final fare can still change after you depart due to congestion, construction, rerouting, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true anymore with UberPOOL they will guarantee your fare at the time you request the ride. So the price you see when you request is what you will be charged.
Click to expand...

They've even started doing it with UberX now, at least here in MSP. The amount shown on the request screen is an exact amount that won't change, at least in my experience and what Uber is claiming under the new system. Lyft can still vary in price, although with the GPS tracking it's easy to dispute if a driver takes a longer-than-needed route.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jebr said:


> Long Train Runnin' said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> UBER Pros: Cars were available right around the corner from where I was standing. I knew the exact fare before I boarded. The ride was prepaid, so when I got to my destination, all I had to do was hop out and not have to fumble with money, credit card, tec.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear the fare you see at pickup is an estimate. The final fare can still change after you depart due to congestion, construction, rerouting, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true anymore with UberPOOL they will guarantee your fare at the time you request the ride. So the price you see when you request is what you will be charged.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They've even started doing it with UberX now, at least here in MSP. The amount shown on the request screen is an exact amount that won't change, at least in my experience and what Uber is claiming under the new system. Lyft can still vary in price, although with the GPS tracking it's easy to dispute if a driver takes a longer-than-needed route.
Click to expand...

That's great to know for future use among established Uber users, but I don't think most people are thinking of UberPOOL when they're talking about being picked up from a random airport outside of the 13 cities currently accepting UberPOOL requests. As for UberX requests, my rides still show an estimated charge. For purposes of new or irregular travelers I think it's important not to over-promise something that Uber/Lyft might under-deliver on their next ride.


----------



## MARC Rider

hermit said:


> Uber all the way! You know the price in advance and you don't get driven in circles for a bigger fare!


Well, yes you do know the fare in advance, but I guess I'm lucky, in all my years riding cabs I've never been "taken for a ride" around in circles by a cabbie.


----------



## snvboy

I've never been in an Uber that smells of the accumulation of seven years of vomit.

I've never had a cab company be able to tell me exactly where my cab is and when it will arrive. This conversation begins will calling dispatch an hour or more ahead of when I need a cab, dispatch says "It's on it's way" and abruptly hangs up. Call them back thirty minutes later: "It's been dispatched, it will be there in 15 minutes." Repeat that a few times until the cab eventually shows about about 30 minutes after you wanted it.

Granted, the Uber business model is built around screwing their drivers in a variety of ways, but the cab companies have has YEARS of opportunities to improve. And haven't. I'll enjoy this Uber ride while it lasts.


----------



## saxman

A few cab companies have made apps for requesting a ride. The problem is that the company is local only to the city they are in while Uber is almost universal. I've even seen UberTaxi on the app now in some cities. I've had all the bad experiences in cabs before. I've had them refuse to take me because I was only going about 2 miles. Another complain I didn't tip him enough, etc. So I will usually take Uber when I can. The only thing I don't like about Uber is their "macho" attitude in some instances. The city of Austin wanted drivers to have fingerprinting done on drivers. Instead of complying, it went to vote, Uber and Lyft completely pulled out of the city. Over all the concept of hailing and paying for a ride on your smartphone is an amazing one, and with technology it will only get better. Hopefully taxi cab companies can adapt.


----------



## City of Miami

I agree with MARC Rider that in many cases using the Uber app is a much bigger pain than just hailing a cab. For example, exiting the Chicago opera Monday night = I had planned to use the Uber app but there were dozens of taxis right front of me. The fare was $25 rather than the 13-17 an independent Uber estimator gave.


----------



## crabby_appleton1950

saxman said:


> A few cab companies have made apps for requesting a ride. The problem is that the company is local only to the city they are in while Uber is almost universal. I've even seen UberTaxi on the app now in some cities. I've had all the bad experiences in cabs before. I've had them refuse to take me because I was only going about 2 miles. Another complain I didn't tip him enough, etc. So I will usually take Uber when I can. The only thing I don't like about Uber is their "macho" attitude in some instances. The city of Austin wanted drivers to have fingerprinting done on drivers. Instead of complying, it went to vote, Uber and Lyft completely pulled out of the city. Over all the concept of hailing and paying for a ride on your smartphone is an amazing one, and with technology it will only get better. Hopefully taxi cab companies can adapt.


I think I've read that they have returned?


----------



## crabby_appleton1950

snvboy said:


> I've never been in an Uber that smells of the accumulation of seven years of vomit.
> 
> I've never had a cab company be able to tell me exactly where my cab is and when it will arrive. This conversation begins will calling dispatch an hour or more ahead of when I need a cab, dispatch says "It's on it's way" and abruptly hangs up. Call them back thirty minutes later: "It's been dispatched, it will be there in 15 minutes." Repeat that a few times until the cab eventually shows about about 30 minutes after you wanted it.
> 
> Granted, the Uber business model is built around screwing their drivers in a variety of ways, but the cab companies have has YEARS of opportunities to improve. And haven't. I'll enjoy this Uber ride while it lasts.


Your cab experience is similar to mine. Plus you can watch the Uber car enroute on the Uber app, so you know where it is and that it really is on the way, unlike just having to take the cab company's word for it.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Uber and Lyft have Not returned to Austin, but Six other Ride Share Companies have started up plus a New Driver owned Cab Co-op to go with the Three Franchised Cab Companies.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

MARC Rider said:


> In all my years riding cabs I've never been "taken for a ride" around in circles by a cabbie.


Are you saying you've never once been driven any further than absolutely necessary? Because that is an extremely rare claim for a routine taxi passenger to make. Not just in the US but across North America and around the world. Rather than bolster your previous claims this post risks unwinding them like a stray bit of string caught in a potential fallacy. Does someone among your family or friends drive for a taxi service?


----------



## SarahZ

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's pretty rare that there is no wait unless you're arriving at *Bumblefork Non-international Airport in the middle of Cracker Barrel County*.


This is one of the best things I've read all week.


----------



## Palmetto

SarahZ said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty rare that there is no wait unless you're arriving at *Bumblefork Non-international Airport in the middle of Cracker Barrel County*.
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the best things I've read all week.
Click to expand...

That could be a description of KBRO!


----------



## John Bredin

Devil's Advocate said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all my years riding cabs I've never been "taken for a ride" around in circles by a cabbie.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you've never once been driven any further than absolutely necessary? Because that is an extremely rare claim for a routine taxi passenger to make. Not just in the US but across North America and around the world. Rather than bolster your previous claims this post risks unwinding them like a stray bit of string caught in a potential fallacy. Does someone among your family or friends drive for a taxi service?
Click to expand...

I'm not *MARC Rider* (obviously) but I've had plenty of experience taking taxis and Ubers. IMHO, "never once been driven any further than absolutely necessary" is not remotely the same as "never been 'taken for a ride.' " Not every taxi driver has The Knowledge* of their city, and honest mistakes can be made where one-way, dead-end, or multi-level streets (Wacker Drive, Michigan Avenue, etc.) prevail. Your response seems to make absolutely** no room for honest mistakes.

Personally, I've suspected shenanigans more than once in a taxi, but have also been fairly certain on other occasions that the cabbie took the non-optimum route by mistake. Also, I've found more than once that the non-optimum route on a map was the optimum route time-wise*** in light of traffic on the optimum route. Conversely, I've had several Uber drivers take the non-optimum route, and they have no incentive for shenanigans since the app fixed my payment before I ever entered the car. If Uber drivers do it by mistake, has the possibility entered your mind that sometimes cabbies also do it by mistake? And before you ask me as you asked *MARC Rider*, neither I nor anybody I know is a cabbie. 

*London (UK) cabbies have to essentially memorize London and its environs, not just every street but all destinations (hotels, theaters, department stores, _etc._). :blink: Passing a test of The Knowledge is prerequisite for a London cabbie license.

**There's that word again. :giggle:

***Which is the measure of taxi, Uber, etc. efficiency from the passenger's point of view. We're not burning gasoline by distance, the driver is. We want to get where we're going as fast as possible, or we'd be taking a bus or walking.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

John Bredin said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all my years riding cabs I've never been "taken for a ride" around in circles by a cabbie.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you've never once been driven any further than absolutely necessary? Because that is an extremely rare claim for a routine taxi passenger to make. Not just in the US but across North America and around the world. Rather than bolster your previous claims this post risks unwinding them like a stray bit of string caught in a potential fallacy. Does someone among your family or friends drive for a taxi service?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not *MARC Rider* (obviously) but I've had plenty of experience taking taxis and Ubers. IMHO, "never once been driven any further than absolutely necessary" is not remotely the same as "never been 'taken for a ride.' "
Click to expand...

Indeed it is not the same, which is why I asked it in the form of a question. It's exceedingly rare for taxis to drive someone around in actual circles. Nothing gets the attention of your passengers quicker than making four right or left turns in a row. Even Ma and Pa Kettle are going notice something as obvious as that. Ignoring instructions, driving recklessly, questionable routings, passing through unnecessary congestion, entering avoidable long term construction zones, wasting time at intermediate stops, arriving at unusable drop-off points, and unnecessary backtracking are far more common and realistic complaints than MARC Rider's straw man example.



John Bredin said:


> Your response seems to make absolutely** no room for honest mistakes. Not every taxi driver has The Knowledge* of their city, and honest mistakes can be made where one-way, dead-end, or multi-level streets (Wacker Drive, Michigan Avenue, etc.) prevail. Your response seems to make absolutely** no room for honest mistakes.


I don't expect perfection from taxi drivers. I merely expect them to focus on the road, drive as quickly and efficiently as reasonably possible, have enough fuel and bladder control to complete the journey, follow my instructions as given, avoid obvious traps and pitfalls, and charge my card without any silly games or theatrics. I've had both good and bad taxi drivers over the years but so far my average ride sharing experience has been much better than my average taxi experience.



John Bredin said:


> If Uber drivers do it by mistake, has the possibility entered your mind that sometimes cabbies also do it by mistake?


Absolutely. That being said, is it an honest mistake to agree to my instructions upon pickup only to casually dismiss them later in the ride? Is it an honest mistake to drive like a maniac or ignore multiple sets of day-glow DETOUR signs as you head toward a multi-year construction zone? Is it an honest mistake to delay my arrival with an unrequested stop at a petrol station or convenience store in the middle of a trip? Is it an honest mistake to accept a card payment inquiry at pickup only to claim the payment device hasn't been working for weeks at drop-off? Or is it just a symptom of an industry model that comes with no repercussions for poor service? I've yet to have any Uber/Lyft drivers pull any of that crap on me. Ride sharing services are not perfect, and sometimes their personalties are not the best match, but the annoyances and inconveniences are so minor compared to the belligerent taxi mafia that it's easy for me to ignore it and get on with my trip.


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few cab companies have made apps for requesting a ride. The problem is that the company is local only to the city they are in while Uber is almost universal. I've even seen UberTaxi on the app now in some cities. I've had all the bad experiences in cabs before. I've had them refuse to take me because I was only going about 2 miles. Another complain I didn't tip him enough, etc. So I will usually take Uber when I can. The only thing I don't like about Uber is their "macho" attitude in some instances. The city of Austin wanted drivers to have fingerprinting done on drivers. Instead of complying, it went to vote, Uber and Lyft completely pulled out of the city. Over all the concept of hailing and paying for a ride on your smartphone is an amazing one, and with technology it will only get better. Hopefully taxi cab companies can adapt.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I've read that they have returned?
Click to expand...


I was in Austin two weeks ago. Uber and Lyft were still not picking up inside Austin city limits. The new local favorite was called Fasten.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

SarahZ said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty rare that there is no wait unless you're arriving at *Bumblefork Non-international Airport in the middle of Cracker Barrel County*.
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the best things I've read all week.
Click to expand...

A bit of an exaggeration. I had 0 wait for a taxi on my latest Amtrak adventures when arriving at Anaheim CA, Seattle WA, and Indianapolis IN.

In Anaheim, Uber was 8 minutes away (all were circling Disneyland) and the taxis were right there. Cost of the Cab was double the estimated Uber.

In Seattle, I didn't even check Uber, the cab was there, I got in. (Seattle has lower taxi rates than other cities, usually it's comparable to Uber).

In Indianapolis, I checked Uber, they were 2 minutes out, the taxi was right there, 2 minutes is longer than I wanted to stand with my nice luggage in the lovely Indianapolis Amtrak homeless shelter at 11:50 at night.. place gives me the creeps! (But I love the Hoosier State train!). Uber was about 1/2 the taxi price and probably would not have reeked of cigarette smoke.

I've found the trick is to ask about credit cards BEFORE entering the Cab... Even than many Cab drivers will say "Oh Cash is much easier, Credit Cards take a long time to process" I just say "I can wait."

I much prefer the Uber experience, and will always call an Uber before calling a cab since I can track the GPS and know where they are and when they will arrive. But if it's late at night and I can just hop in a cab rather than waiting a few minutes, I usually will.


----------



## Train2104

Where cabs are plentiful and hailable (NYC, DC, etc), I see little value in using Uber, as small savings isn't worth the longer wait. The only exception is if the savings add up because the trip is extremely long...at that point it's likely way cheaper to take transit to a closer point and catch a cab/Uber from there.

In smaller cities, less-dense areas, and at odd hours of the night, where the only way to get a cab is to call the cab company, the convenience and trackability of Uber means the cabs have no chance of competing for my business.

That said, I try to use transit whenever possible, unless location, hours of operation, or luggage mean it's not possible.


----------



## Anderson

I've basically given up on taxis, all else being equal. Too many mediocre-to-bad cab experiences over time (particularly being utterly sick of taxis that have those stupid "entertainment" screens in the back that the taxi commissions have often forced on them). In general I'll usually default to a mix of Uber and public transit (the latter depending on availability and convenience) unless there's a decent-cost "black car" service at the airport.


----------



## caravanman

I thought this BBC item on Uber was interesting, and looks at a different aspect of the long term costs...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38252405

Ed.


----------



## willem

Thanks for that link, *caravanman*. It's an interesting article.


----------



## cirdan

maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.

Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.

I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.

At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.

As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.


----------



## cirdan

caravanman said:


> I thought this BBC item on Uber was interesting, and looks at a different aspect of the long term costs...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38252405
> 
> Ed.


I'm not sure about the type of statment that says Uber cars could replace city buses.

People carrying crude oil in jars and bottles might some day replace pipelines and tanker trucks, but I don't think so somehow.

There is a reason that eficiency scales.


----------



## jebr

The Naked Capitalism article linked in the BBC article (and the three preceding articles in that series) are very interesting. It argues that Uber simply won't be sustainable unless they find a way to raise rates, probably by creating a monopoly. I do think the one caveat is that if they're able to develop autonomous vehicle technology very rapidly to the point where human drivers are not required, they may be able to find some way to use their scale to reduce costs, but right now they don't have a lot of decreased costs due to scale.

Uber will almost certainly never replace high-ridership transit routes. Even if somehow the cost lowers to a point with autonomous cars that it can be competitive with the cost of running buses, the space needed to run individual cars is much larger per person than what is needed on a bus or subway car. While I don't think that it's a terrible idea to use it to replace general public dial a ride service or even some low-usage bus routes, a backup plan needs to be in place if they're relying on Uber to replace services (and making sure that the math will still work out if they have to fall back to a taxi company, otherwise having plans in place to quickly ramp up bus service again as needed.)


----------



## saxman

I've found Uber to be perfect for that "last mile" when taking transit. When I have to take transit to the outer suburbs and bus service is either poor to non-existant, or very pedestrian unfriendly. In fact, Uber has marketed themselves for this very thing. They were a big proponent of Seattle's transit ballot initiative that passed in the last election. Where taxi cab companies and their unions have fought hard against transit, Uber/Lyft have realized transit has actually increased their usability. New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.


----------



## PerRock

cirdan said:


> maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.
> 
> Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.
> 
> I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.
> 
> At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.
> 
> As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.


That sounds like a bit much for any one app to do. Thousands of aiports & stations each with their own timings, etc. And what about if you decided to grab a cup of coffee or use the restroom?

However on Lyft, and I believe Uber, you can set a different pick-up point from where your GPS is. So if you're 5-10mins out from the station you can tell Lyft to send a car to the station & it should be there. You can also add a pickup note in Lyft so you can say "I'm on Train #" and the driver will hopefully wait. Of course the driver could just cancel the fare and move on, but that's a different situation.

peter


----------



## Devil's Advocate

cirdan said:


> At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly. As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.


At my hometown airport you can initiate an Uber/Lyft ride while still inside the airport and meet them at a designated ride sharing curb area as you exit. I don't check luggage so I simply initialized the pickup as I disembarked my aircraft. By the time I reached the curb my ride was waiting for me. Just as easy as catching the next cab in my view.


----------



## cirdan

saxman said:


> New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.


Is this so?

I've heard on the contrary that the airports gets cash for every taxi that drives onto their land, and that it's the airports that don't want people to use transit.


----------



## cirdan

PerRock said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe this already exists but i haven't seen it yet.
> 
> Where I think Uber is missng a trick is when you tell them where you are now.
> 
> I don't want to call an Uber on the app when I'm already at a station. I want to to tell them I'm on this or that train and leave it to the Uber system to work out when i will be at destination (including any late running that may occur between now and my arrivals time) so the Uber car will be there to pick me up.
> 
> At airports a GPS system could even track my precise location so the driver knows, now I'm picking up my luggage, now I'm walking towards the pick up point etc, so they can coordinate their position to pick me up seamslessly.
> 
> As long as Uber can't work that stuff out, it's just easier for me to walk to the front of a row of waiting taxis.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a bit much for any one app to do. Thousands of aiports & stations each with their own timings, etc. And what about if you decided to grab a cup of coffee or use the restroom?
Click to expand...

Uber wouldn't need to know the precise layout and timings of every airport. What they can do is aggregate data. They tend to pick up lots of people at airports so could have a lot of data to do statistics with. Then they could say, on average it takes 10 minutes from picking up luggage to reaching the pick up point.


----------



## saxman

cirdan said:


> saxman said:
> 
> 
> 
> New York airports would have been connected by rail decades ago if it weren't for the taxi's fighting against it.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this so?
> 
> I've heard on the contrary that the airports gets cash for every taxi that drives onto their land, and that it's the airports that don't want people to use transit.
Click to expand...

I don't know the exact details but yes, but a transit was proposed in the 70's or 80's to go from JFK to La Guardia and on into Manhattan.

And why would JFK and Newark be connected by rail now if they didn't want it? I agree that paying the $5 surcharge to ride the Airtrain is a little much, but thats the Port Authority for you. LGA will be getting a rail connection to LIRR and the Subway at some point with the new terminals being redone.


----------



## Anderson

On JFK/LGA, it's possible that there was a round of pushback which abated (and/or was part of a larger, more complicated situation).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).

I agree that Uber won't replace high-capacity lines. What they _do_ fill in is gaps in places like Newport News, where transit basically doesn't exist. I think the buses here run about every hour at best, for example, and transfers are utterly inane. I checked one time and it would literally have probably been faster to _walk_ several miles than to take the bus, per the agency's own calculator, not to mention more expensive than driving. The main question will be agencies getting Uber to commit to a certain service level alongside the subsidies (e.g. "You need to make sure you have drivers 'on the clock' in this area without surge fares"). However, in places where the bus runs less than every 30 minutes outside of rush hour, subsidizing Uber _probably _makes more sense as long as you're able to somehow also provide subsidies for passengers for whom Uber gets expensive quickly.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Anderson said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).


You can say it as much as you like but I think you'll be waiting just shy of forever to see that. Taxi companies wouldn't have been able to codify absurd rules or demand exorbitant rates and nullify the threat of price competition without the help of the local councils.


----------



## Anderson

Devil's Advocate said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm waiting for a major showdown between a taxi group and Uber to happen and the taxis to end up being the ones thrown out in a "kill the king" approach (e.g. a city council deciding that the politically rational move is obliterating the taxi drivers as a political force before an election four years hence).
> 
> 
> 
> You can say it as much as you like but I think you'll be waiting just shy of forever to see that. Taxi companies wouldn't have been able to codify absurd rules or demand exorbitant rates and nullify the threat of price competition without the help of the local councils.
Click to expand...

I really think you presume too much. Though it varies based on jurisdiction, there's solid evidence that the taxis' situation is sliding fast. The best evidence of this is the price of an NYC taxi medallion dropping by about 50% over the last few years. Moreover, there are plenty of places which are _not_ New York or San Francisco and where the taxi lobby is hardly going to be as strong...and frankly in some places I suspect the number of Uber drivers is likely to substantially exceed the number of taxi drivers.


----------



## ScouseAndy

For my political views I wont use Uber, I have looked into it closely (UK Uber - other nations may vary) - and I found many drivers had been ripped off and had been paid less than the UK nationally minumum wage (in some instances even before their costs of fuel let alone deprication) so morally couldnt never use them. However prior to my research after trying to use them in both Liverpool & Manchester (admittedly after major supporting events) the costs they where charging where exhorbiant to say least (after a RL international match they wanted 15x the standard fare from Liverpool FC's anfield to the train station) and the stories in left wing Uk media about drivers not getting paid etc it left a very sour taste in my mouth


----------



## Long Train Runnin'

I will say over the past couple weeks I took a couple ubers that were simply "too cheap". I used Uber for a ride from the airport in Manilla to my hotel it was about 25 minutes each way. Both fares were under 3USD in newer model mini vans. I really was scratching my head at how that would even be possible. I am no stranger to labor rates in Southeast Asia, but I almost felt guilty. Both rides there went smoothly, and since I was only in town for one night it made it so much easier then worrying about converting currency and all that. While there was no common language between the driver and myself I have to say it was quite a painless procedure to simply slide in the back of the car, and end up where I needed to be in a foreign country.

Last weekend I took advantage of Uber in San Jose Costa Rica, and I spent over an hour in the car on arrival. Drive spoke excellent English as she used to work for a Western software company. I figured that ride was going to cost me a pretty penny. It converted to about 17 dollars. On the return the driver didn't speak any English and my very poor Spanish was just enough to work everything out. We actually stopped for fuel, which was certainly a new experience for me in an Uber. That ride ran me about 15 dollars.

I have to say that is getting pretty slick when you start to visit parts of the world, and can get by totally cashless. With some many 0% foreign transaction fee credit cards it really takes a hassle out of travel. The strangest place I managed to get by without cash this year after visiting 30 countries? Longyearbyen in Svalbard, Norway. Even the shuttle that runs between the hotels from the worlds most Northern airport accepted credit cards. I mean sure you are technically in Europe, but I couldn't believe there really was no need for paper NOK up there.


----------



## Shortline

I'm a recent convert, but am an Uber fan. In my limited experience with Uber, it's cleaner, faster, safer, and more convenient. Used I extnsively in Chicago, Birmingham, and OKC so far. Love it. Have not yet tried Lyft, probably should. Heck, just the simple fact that Austin bans it, tells me it's probably a better product at a lower price. Austin just hates capitalistic free market enterprise.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Shortline said:


> Heck, just the simple fact that Austin bans it, tells me it's probably a better product at a lower price. Austin just hates capitalistic free market enterprise.


Austin never banned Uber or Lyft. In fact Uber and Lfyt can still return to Austin and probably will again in the future. Uber and Lyft didn't agree with Austin's new rules about more invasive background checks for drivers and took their concerns to the voters. Rightly or wrongly when the votes were counted Uber and Lyft had lost. Rather than comply with the new rules they simply picked up and left town. Which is their right of course, but all things considered it sounds as though the bulk of your disagreement is with the concept of democracy rather than with the city of Austin.


----------



## Shortline

Exactly. The city of Austin demographics chased it out, due to unnecessary and overly burdensome regulations on a business model that provided more efficient service at lower cost. Follow the money-Why was this issue brought for a vote in the first place? Austin is quickly becoming the California of Texas. But, you're exactly right, democracy in action. Surprises me frankly, as progressive as Austin is, I really expected the younger demographic to embrace the new model, and technology. But that's cool, smelly cabs, and a commuter train that only runs part time is fine for them. So be it.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

The vast majority of anti-Uber/Lyft pushback across the country and the rest of the world has come not from concerned voters but from city councils honoring the wishes of representatives of conventional taxi interests. Following the money leads you to taxi companies which stand to lose lots of entrenched council-sanctioned revenue by being augmented or replaced by competition from ride sharing services. Voters didn't make a single dime from refusing to reverse the new driver security rules.

The ride sharing services made the erroneous assumption that Austin would be a good place to make their big stand and reverse the trend of increasing security regulation in response to rapes and other violent behavior. That turned out to be an erroneous assessment of the situation. Austin residents used and enjoyed ride sharing services but they weren't married to a specific company and were willing to risk angering or even losing Uber and Lyft in order to ensure stronger background checks from other ride sharing services in the future.

Your claim that a major city which has only known capitalism simultaneously hates capitalism is both illogical and irrational. In fact most of the people I know who live in or around Austin are only slightly less enthusiastic than the rest of the hyper-capitalistic state in which they reside. When singing the praises of free markets you might want to keep in mind that some of the freest markets in the world are located in places like Nigeria and Somalia. If that's the kind of market you favor over Austin then I honestly don't know what to say.


----------



## Shortline

If nothing else, you're still amusing.


----------



## jis

Shortline said:


> If nothing else, you're still amusing.


Ran out of arguments, eh?


----------



## Bob Dylan

Shortline:

There are now Six Ride Share Companies and Four Chartered Taxi Companies serving Austin ( the Home of Alex Jones!) and Uber and Lyft are operating in the Metro Area around Austin.

Thus it seems that there is plenty of money to be made in the People's Republic of Austin which now has the highest per capita income in Texas and governments that are strongly pro business.

Amusing even if it doesn't fit the Right Wing/Fox Model that equates Austin with California and Cuba eh?!!!


----------



## GBNorman

This is a very interesting topic that I only discovered today.

I last set foot in a for hire vehicle this past August in Linz, Austria. Having already walked about five miles that day, and with "threatening" skies, I hopped into a taxicab at a stand, said one word - Hauptbahnhof - and was on my way with no apparent tour of the city.

I have been in one Uber in this life, going out to Dinner with a friend and his "squeeze" in Atlanta this past April, we intended to use the hotel's at which I was staying - Crowne Plaza Perimeter- Courtesy Van to a restaurant - Capital Grille - within its two mile "range". But out we go and there goes the van - and our reservation is in twenty minutes. I'm of the "I'll get my car from the Valet" mindset (they were staying at another hotel in Buckhead). He says "no need" and he is tapping on his phone. About five minutes later a late model Ford Explorer pulls up and he leads the way in. I didn't know what was going on other than that we were at the restaurant on time and without incident for our reservation. I said to him "who was that guy?" "An Uber driver". "Well, I guess I've now been in an Uber".

But for one who has little occasion to use for hire transport - Mr. Shank and Miss Mare still work pretty well - there is always a first for this 77yo.


----------



## jis

Bob Dylan said:


> Shortline:
> 
> There are now Six Ride Share Companies and Four Chartered Taxi Companies serving Austin ( the Home of Alex Jones!) and Uber and Lyft are operating in the Metro Area around Austin.
> 
> Thus it seems that there is plenty of money to be made in the People's Republic of Austin which now has the highest per capita income in Texas and governments that are strongly pro business.
> 
> Amusing even if it doesn't fit the Right Wing/Fox Model that equates Austin with California and Cuba eh?!!!


Inevitably the the People's Republics in the US tend to have higher income levels than the destitute homes of laissez-faire. Some of the latter are totally at the bottom of the economic pile these days and digging deeper.


----------



## CrazyTrain

I haven't read through every single argument on here, so I'm just going to respond to the OP since my recent experiences were quite the opposite. I took the train to Chicago and therefore had to rely on public transportation and Uber/Lyft to get around. I used Uber to get from the train station to the hotel. Not long to wait at all. The driver was silent the whole time. I went to Wrigley Field that same day and my friend and I got an Uber and he dropped us off at two separate locations. Again, nothing was said except between my friend and I. When I wanted to go to the Museum of Science and industry, I did a lot of price comparisons. I asked the doormen on two different occasions how much a taxi fare would be. First guy told me $10-12; second guy said $12-15. When I looked at both Uber and Lyft, the price was around $14, so I figured that was comparable to a taxi, so I took a taxi. Taxi was $18.75. I took a Lyft back to the hotel and saved $5 on the fare because the MSI offered a code for such.

I'm sure there are plenty of instances where a taxi would make more sense than Uber or Lyft and vice versa. At no time were any of the Uber or Lyft drivers overly talkative, but then again I'm not the kind of person who minded. The taxi driver, on the other hand, chattered practically the whole way there. I don't see anything wrong with Uber and Lyft bringing the competition. I feel all three options, as well as regular city bus transportation, have something to offer different people. Variety is what we need. Not a singular mode of transportation.


----------



## VAtrainfan

I don't know how it works in other multi-city metro areas, but here in Hampton Roads taxis can only pick up fares in the city where their company is based. Which means the rates double when you cross city lines so they can make up for having to drive back to their own city empty. A taxi from Portsmouth is free to carry a fare from Portsmouth to Norfolk but cannot then pick up a fare in Norfolk to drive back to Portsmouth. Uber/Lyft aren't bound by this rule.


----------



## jis

I have pretty much given up on the traditional Taxi industry and presume that they will eventually either become like Uber/Lyft or die the death of a dinosaur. This impression is from observing developments in diverse places ranging from American cities to European and Indian cities and even suburban and rural areas to some extent. The Taxi industry appears to be incapable of adjusting to the new realities.


----------



## jebr

I'm no fan of the Uber/Lyft model of building their business on the backs of the drivers (classifying them as independent contractors so they don't have to worry about labor laws, etc.) That said, most taxi companies, from what I've heard, weren't much better in that regard, especially with them often leasing out taxis to drivers and the drivers would have to figure out how to make their money from there (often making barely minimum wage after expenses are factored in.) To me, that's basically a net neutral.

Taxi companies, however, can't seem to figure out how to build a remotely usable ride-hail app, at least when I last tried a year or two ago. The couple of times I tried the ride wouldn't confirm even after waiting 5ish minutes, or it would claim it was booked but the ETA would keep climbing and the car in the app wouldn't show movement at all. This was during afternoon rush in an inner-ring suburb, which shouldn't have issues finding a driver. When Uber and Lyft can provide confirmation of a ride heading your way in seconds, maybe a minute or two at most, not being able to confirm that ride and actually have the driver head your way if/when it does confirm seems like a major oversight. They very much seem to be stuck in the mindset of a 30 minute to an hour wait before getting a taxi dispatched is okay; when the competition can do it in minutes (with confirmation in seconds) that doesn't hold up.


----------

