# Los Angeles Metrolink Crash



## radsmom (Jan 26, 2005)

This occured near my folk's house. My son and I have been commuting to visit them a lot (they have been in the hospital) and going via Amtrak Surfliner and Metrolink. I know these two trains well as we were just on one!

Very sad news and still a lot of confusion about what has happened here this morning. Our local news has given so many conflicting reports it's hard to tell what went on.

Metrolink news story


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## Trogdor (Jan 26, 2005)

Based what I've been able to piece together from various photos and news reports, it seems that one train hit a parked UP locomotive, and it must have been at a time when another train was passing in the opposite direction. The fallout of the first collision must have caused cars to derail and hit the next train.


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## musher (Jan 26, 2005)

From what I can tell, the derail of the first commuter train was caused when it struck a "vehicle". It derailed and sideswiped another commuter train, and one of the those trains also struck a UP locomotive parked on a side track.


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## AlanB (Jan 26, 2005)

> A California sheriff says it appears a vehicle was deliberately placed on railroad tracks in Glendale, causing this morning's derailment that killed as many as nine people and injured about 200.


Further details can be found at NBC News.


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## AlanB (Jan 26, 2005)

> "This is a complete outrage as far as transportation safety is concerned," Los Angeles sheriff Lee Baca said. "The people riding these trains deserve better," he said angrily, speculating the person who left the car on the tracks knew the trains were coming.


Still another more detailed story from Fox News.


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## tp49 (Jan 26, 2005)

Supposedly the train hit an SUV left on the tracks by a suicidal person who had second thoughts. Here is a story from CBS 2 in Los Angeles.


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## gswager (Jan 26, 2005)

That's so tragic! I've rode on that line on Metrolink (serving both Antelope and Ventura) and Coast Starlight (so is Pacific Surfliner as Radsmom typed.)

I believe that line is the highest rate for crossing accidents for Metrolink system and Metrolink is actively building overcrossings.

My condolescence to them.

Wondering if they have shortage of cars since the accident because it leased the Sounder train?


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## battalion51 (Jan 26, 2005)

Someone tell me if I'm wrong. But in the NBC Slideshow does it appear to anyone else that a signal bridge landed on one of the trains? It also looks like the Cab Car got creamed in the incident, I really hope the crew had time to get out.


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## Arkarch (Jan 26, 2005)

KNBC-4's website had a live video feed that dwelled for a good while over the crash site.

Yes, that does appear to be a signal tower laying over the furthest train. The base is leaning against a car, with the crossbar partially on the car and more pieces along the other side of the track.

The Cab Car suffered extensive damage to both ends, looks like a good 10-15 feet obliterated on the front end which struck the UP Engine. The UP Engine is laying on its side, with a following blue-colored diesel remaining on the tracks. Could not tell if this there were freight cars behind. Certainly it was a powerful collision.

The second train (with the dropped signal tower) has serious damage along one side.. certainly a side-swipe. One of the train cars is split off and resting in the dirt behind the first train.

Crash with the SUV, Derail, Crash side-wise into the other commuter train, then head-in to the UP freight.. that had to be an intense.

Why does someone who wants to commit suicide have to endanger (and kill) so many lives?

Nobody has indicated what size SUV, which could be car-like at the typical 3000-4000 lbs, or larger in the 6000-7000lb class, or something very heavier.


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## AlanB (Jan 26, 2005)

battalion51 said:


> Someone tell me if I'm wrong. But in the NBC Slideshow does it appear to anyone else that a signal bridge landed on one of the trains? It also looks like the Cab Car got creamed in the incident, I really hope the crew had time to get out.


I've just seen video footage of the crash scene, and you are correct, that is indeed a signal bridge laying on top of one of the cars.

As for the engineer, my guess is that he may have had time to get out of the cab, but even then considering the damage to the head car it's anyones guess as to how well the crew might have fared if indeed they did make it out of the cab.


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## jccollins (Jan 26, 2005)

gswager said:


> Wondering if they have shortage of cars since the accident because it leased the Sounder train?


Yes, Metrolink does not have enough equipment to meet their demand. They have new equipment or order, but it will be a couple years before it arrives. Until then their capacity will continue to shrink, as has just happened, unless they can lease more equipment from somewhere else but equipment seems to be short everywhere.


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## EmpireBuilderFan (Jan 26, 2005)

Arkarch said:


> Nobody has indicated what size SUV, which could be car-like at the typical 3000-4000 lbs, or larger in the 6000-7000lb class, or something very heavier.


I've been seeing reports that the SUV was a Grand Cherokee, which is one of the larger trucks. My prayers go out to those who have been hurt, and the family and friends of those who died as a result of one man's death wish. It sounds like they've already charged him with 10 counts of murder, but we'll see if that sticks.


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## Allen Dee (Jan 26, 2005)

From what I have seen and read, this tragedy was caused by a deranged individual who was distraught over the separation from his wife. It is my belief that he staged several fake suicide attempts to draw the attention from his estranged wife.

As long he is not declared not guilty by reason of insanity, he will be convicted of multiple counts of homicide.

As far as I know, this is the only incident in recent history where a person attempting suicide-by-train took a bunch of other lives.

Had the other two trains, the second Metrolink and the UP freight on the siding, not been in such close proximity, this most probably would have resulted in a simple derailment with minimal injuries and no deaths.


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## tp49 (Jan 27, 2005)

I do remember looking at a copy of the California Penal Code recently and noticed that train wercking is not only a felony but it is a crime punishible via the death penalty, attempting suicide is also a felony in California (as odd as that seems.) I could see murder charges (felony murder might have issues with the degree) but it would be involuntary manslaughter at the very least.


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## AlanB (Jan 27, 2005)

> The suicidal man who authorities say caused the chain-reaction train derailment that killed 11 people has been charged with multiple counts of murder and could face the death penalty, the district attorney said Thursday.


The full story from MSNBC News.


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## Save Our Trains Michigan (Jan 27, 2005)

1 of the dead is a conductor.

Railfan.net :angry:


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## steve_relei (Jan 27, 2005)

Fortunately, the Coast Starlight is still not going all the way into and out of LAUPT. The train is terminating/originating at Emeryville until at least Jan 31--due to the slides, etc. along the Coast line. Still it is tragic. I, too would like to see locomotives at each end of the train; not only is it more appealing visually, but it is safer. On the Talgo trains used on the Cascades in the Pacific Northwest, the trains are push/pull operations. From Seattle-Portland-Eugene, for example, an F59PHI pulls the train and is where the engineer sits at the controls. An F40 (with power removed, but with controls) is at the rear of the train and carries the rear markers. The next day when the train returns to Portland and Seattle, the F40 becomes the front of the train, where the engineer sits at the controls, while the F59 pushes the train. There have been no problems or derailments with these trains. I suggest such an arrangement for other passenger trains normally used in the pusyh/pull mode.


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## Trogdor (Jan 27, 2005)

steve_relei said:


> I, too would like to see locomotives at each end of the train;


Engines ain't cheap. The Metrolink cars involved were three-car trains. Three cars and two engines it a lot of wasted power (and money).

The "cabbage" (former F-40) cars ride like junk, just ask anyone that has to work on them (at least in the midwest, don't know if the Pacific Northwest ones have been modified to ride better).


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## AlanB (Jan 27, 2005)

steve_relei said:


> On the Talgo trains used on the Cascades in the Pacific Northwest, the trains are push/pull operations. From Seattle-Portland-Eugene, for example, an F59PHI pulls the train and is where the engineer sits at the controls. An F40 (with power removed, but with controls) is at the rear of the train and carries the rear markers. The next day when the train returns to Portland and Seattle, the F40 becomes the front of the train, where the engineer sits at the controls, while the F59 pushes the train. There have been no problems or derailments with these trains. I suggest such an arrangement for other passenger trains normally used in the pusyh/pull mode.


A de-motored F40 might have helped minimize some of the damage, injuries, and fatalities. However I suspect that with weight lost due to the loss of the prime mover, it still would have derailed. Especially since all reports are saying the SUV was actually not just parked on the tracks, it was stuck, wedged in between the ties apparently.

So had a de-motored F40 been at the head end, it probably would have still gone off the tracks. Even a functioning engine probably would have derailed.

Again injuries overall would have gone down, since the first car would not have been a passenger car, but I think that a derailment was inevitable.

This of course also opens up Pandora’s box, as what does one do with all the MU’s in use in the NY area, since they are also prone to the same problem.


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## Viewliner (Jan 27, 2005)

BNSF_1088 said:


> 1 of the dead is a conductor.Railfan.net :angry:


Its very unfortunate, the conductor was an Amtrak employee (Amtrak crews Metrolink trains). I read in todays trains newswire that another was a railfan that enjoyed riding in the cab when the train was in push mode and built a model of one of the Metrolink Stations. I've heard two scenarios on the derailment, one which the car caused the derailment, another that cars usually don't derail the train, rather it caused it to sway and hit the oncoming northbound.


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## AlanB (Jan 27, 2005)

Viewliner said:


> I've heard two scenarios on the derailment, one which the car caused the derailment, another that cars usually don't derail the train, rather it caused it to sway and hit the oncoming northbound.


The later scenario doesn't work, since only the rear car on the northbound was hit and derailed and the freight engine was hit first.

I saw a computer reenactment last night on the news. It clearly showed the hit on the car first. That caused the cabcar to jump the rails and hit the freight engine. That of course halted all forward movement on the train causing the next two cars to accordion. One of those cars then hit the last car of the northbound train derailing it and knocking it onto its side.


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## AlanB (Jan 27, 2005)

> SURVIVAL A MATTER OF CHANCE
> They rode the southbound train in the predawn darkness, some napping, some reading, some chatting with the friends they had made over the years.


The above from a very informative article from the LA Times. Also included along the right side, are links to various graphics that show the sequence of events, much like I tired to describe above.


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## battalion51 (Jan 27, 2005)

> Fortunately, the Coast Starlight is still not going all the way into and out of LAUPT. The train is terminating/originating at Emeryville until at least Jan 31--due to the slides, etc. along the Coast line. Still it is tragic. I, too would like to see locomotives at each end of the train; not only is it more appealing visually, but it is safer. On the Talgo trains used on the Cascades in the Pacific Northwest, the trains are push/pull operations. From Seattle-Portland-Eugene, for example, an F59PHI pulls the train and is where the engineer sits at the controls. An F40 (with power removed, but with controls) is at the rear of the train and carries the rear markers. The next day when the train returns to Portland and Seattle, the F40 becomes the front of the train, where the engineer sits at the controls, while the F59 pushes the train. There have been no problems or derailments with these trains. I suggest such an arrangement for other passenger trains normally used in the pusyh/pull mode.


I'm with Alan and Rob on this one. I do think the concept behind the Cabbage is a great concept, and it works since some trains require a baggage room, and this is an efficient way to get it to those trains, while still providing a cab. But the economics behind running two engines on every train just is not sensible. Take the Vermonter for example (one of the few in the entire system with an engine on either end). While the train does enjoy quick load times, it has a host of problems. An Engineer I am close to says they often have problems with the MU connection (the engines not communicating well, where one engine loads quickly while the other drags or is slamming into the rear), and have poor train handling as a result. The train also has high fuel costs since they cannot isolate one of the engines due to the hills through Mass and Vermont. As for the failed cab car experiment it occured due to a lack of cab cars and the necessity to wye the train nightly so the engine led through Vermont (due to the need for a Fireman to copy Track Warrant). The cab cars aren't foolproof, as this incident has shown. But, they are cost efficient, and serve their purpose. Even if the engine had been leading in this situation there could've been a death with the Engineer since it is possible the engine could've gone over and caught fire (similar to the wreck in Bourbonais), which could've made the situation even stickier.


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2005)

As posted elsewhere on the net:

A photographer who works for a fiber optic company was allowed into the crash site to check for damage to cables in the area. He took some very dramatic and telling pictures of the cars. There are also some shots of them starting to rerail the cars. The damage to some of the cars is just amazing, even the UP engine is heavily damaged. 

The photos can be found here.


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## gswager (Jan 30, 2005)

Man! That's incredible about a shot of a unrecognizable jeep, sitting on edge of the parking lot. Looks like it went under the train.


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## efin98 (Jan 30, 2005)

Sets things in perspective of how a small vehicle in relation to locomotive and commuter trains can cause such havoc... Science run amok there, worst fears realized for many...


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2005)

Well just look at the damage that the cab car did to the UP loco. That also is very telling. One wouldn't have figured that a cab car could caused that much damage to the loco.


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## AMTRAK-P42 (Jan 30, 2005)

Those were some amazing photographs. The photo with the horns lying alone on the ground was kind of ominous as well.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2005)

The news last night said the investigators now believe this was intentional, not a botched suicide attempt. Premeditated derailing of a train... Sad


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## AlanB (Feb 19, 2005)

Guest said:


> The news last night said the investigators now believe this was intentional, not a botched suicide attempt. Premeditated derailing of a train... Sad


Yup, I saw that on the news too. If it's true, then they really need to put this idiot away for a very, very long time. :angry:


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## tp49 (Feb 22, 2005)

If it was not a suicide attempt but a premeditated act I would not at all be surprised if the DA goes ahead with a death penalty prosecution.


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