# Capitol Limited Consist



## Guest_Shotgun7_* (Nov 8, 2007)

I've been wandering why the Capitol Limited usually pulls a conist including three locomotives. If the train usually only hauls 8 cars (1 heritage baggage, 7 Superliners) and traverses terrain not nearly as rough as that of most of the other Superliners, why would Amtrak waste extra power on it when the Silver trains for example down here in Florida sometimes only run with one engine and have been subject to frequent power failures?? It just seems odd to see a fifty car freight train and a light eight car passenger train with equal power.


----------



## George Harris (Nov 8, 2007)

Guest_Shotgun7_* said:


> I've been wandering why the Capitol Limited usually pulls a conist including three locomotives. If the train usually only hauls 8 cars (1 heritage baggage, 7 Superliners) and traverses terrain not nearly as rough as that of most of the other Superliners,


Which other superliner trains? Only the Southwest Chief goes over steeper grades. The California Zephyr does the most in long climbs, mainlin the Sierra coming east out of Sacramento and west out of Denver, but they are no steeper than the Appalachian grades faced by the Capitol Ltd. (2.2%)


----------



## had8ley (Nov 8, 2007)

George Harris said:


> Guest_Shotgun7_* said:
> 
> 
> > I've been wandering why the Capitol Limited usually pulls a conist including three locomotives. If the train usually only hauls 8 cars (1 heritage baggage, 7 Superliners) and traverses terrain not nearly as rough as that of most of the other Superliners,
> ...


George;

Just out of curiosity what is the top gradient for the Sunset and just where is it?

Jay


----------



## AlanB (Nov 8, 2007)

Guest_Shotgun7_* said:


> I've been wandering why the Capitol Limited usually pulls a conist including three locomotives. If the train usually only hauls 8 cars (1 heritage baggage, 7 Superliners) and traverses terrain not nearly as rough as that of most of the other Superliners, why would Amtrak waste extra power on it when the Silver trains for example down here in Florida sometimes only run with one engine and have been subject to frequent power failures?? It just seems odd to see a fifty car freight train and a light eight car passenger train with equal power.


Hmm, everytime I've ever been on the Cap its only had two locos. My last trip on the Cap back in October, we were ever hauling a PV on the bottom, and still only had two locos.


----------



## Terry434 (Nov 8, 2007)

The Capitol Limited has two engines most of the time.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=158144

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=149627

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=146373

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=139732

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=124706

Terry Tabb


----------



## Sam Damon (Nov 9, 2007)

While I have no independent way to verify this, I believe the times when #29/30 have three locomotives on the point are when locomotives need to make a run to Beech Grove (via Chicago, of course), or for a power balancing move.


----------



## battalion51 (Nov 12, 2007)

Power moves are the most likely reason. CHI is home base for all of the Intercity (IC) P-42s. If there is a problem with an engine and Ivy City can't repair the unit (because it doesn't have the people or parts) it has to be taken to CHI for the work to be done. Since that unit is running dead, it's just tacked on with the normal power. The only time power really heads to Beech Grove is when it is in need of heavy maintenance. CHI handles most of the problems the IC units have.


----------



## Joshua Clark (Jul 21, 2008)

battalion51 said:


> Power moves are the most likely reason. CHI is home base for all of the Intercity (IC) P-42s. If there is a problem with an engine and Ivy City can't repair the unit (because it doesn't have the people or parts) it has to be taken to CHI for the work to be done. Since that unit is running dead, it's just tacked on with the normal power. The only time power really heads to Beech Grove is when it is in need of heavy maintenance. CHI handles most of the problems the IC units have.



we can't always explain why amtrak does certain things.. Like have three locomotives powered up and powering the Capitol Limited:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?...240&nseq=23


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 21, 2008)

Joshua Clark, thanks for that link, there's a ton of photos there.


----------



## ray828 (Jul 21, 2008)

Joshua Clark said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > Power moves are the most likely reason. CHI is home base for all of the Intercity (IC) P-42s. If there is a problem with an engine and Ivy City can't repair the unit (because it doesn't have the people or parts) it has to be taken to CHI for the work to be done. Since that unit is running dead, it's just tacked on with the normal power. The only time power really heads to Beech Grove is when it is in need of heavy maintenance. CHI handles most of the problems the IC units have.
> ...



Very true, I asked my sleeping car attendant why the texas eagle only has one engine when it is pulling 8 superliners, no baggage car, and is sold out with summer time crowds. She said the main reason is to save money and that a baggage car adds weight which leads to more fuel costs but if the engine dies we are just stuck and do not have a back up engine. So my question is why would amtrak be putting 3 locomotives on a train which usually has two if they want to save money. But what ever, most people don't understand amtrak's thinking process either.


----------



## GB Bari (Nov 21, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> Power moves are the most likely reason. CHI is home base for all of the Intercity (IC) P-42s. If there is a problem with an engine and Ivy City can't repair the unit (because it doesn't have the people or parts) it has to be taken to CHI for the work to be done. Since that unit is running dead, it's just tacked on with the normal power. The only time power really heads to Beech Grove is when it is in need of heavy maintenance. CHI handles most of the problems the IC units have.


Having worked years ago in the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad's Baltimore Division Chief Dispatcher's Office (in Camden Station in Baltimore) I had first-hand witness to the logistics of managing motive power to meet the ever-changing requirements across just a single division. The reasons mentioned above are accurate and are not always 100% predictable. Power is often dead-headed across a division or even further to meet the power demands of consists that are made up daily at the origination points (classification yards) or where additional power may be required to assist unusually heavy consists over grades.

In the case of passenger trains, the consists of most trains do not vary significantly from one day to the next. But the shallowness of Amtrak's operational motive power inventory due to insufficient funding from Congress complicates the logistics of providing usable power where and when it is needed. Small problems create large ripples when there isn't much backup inventory available.

I suggest not trying to second guess why Amtrak would run any particular consist on any day. Unless we are aware of all the facts as to what is operational and where it is located, it would be difficult to understand their decisions.


----------



## battalion51 (Nov 21, 2009)

Wow, this is going back a little bit. But whatever.

I do not pretend to know why every decision is made, but rather try to decipher why certain decisions are made based on the limited knowledge we as outsiders have to a specific situation. There is no way any of us can say why a specific decision is made for a particular run unless we have inside knowledge with respect to that specific train. In large part there is a lot of conjecture here and we try to make sense out of things given vague information that we have.


----------



## Rob_C (Nov 22, 2009)

On the Capitol Limited, which sleeper is #3000 in the consist?


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Nov 22, 2009)

Rob_C said:


> On the Capitol Limited, which sleeper is #3000 in the consist?


The Sleeper directly behind the diner.


----------



## Ryan (Nov 22, 2009)

Behind or in front?


----------



## Big Iron (Nov 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> Behind or in front?


On the CAP the sleepers are typically in front of the dining car.


----------



## Ryan (Nov 22, 2009)

That's what I thought.


----------



## Big Iron (Nov 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> That's what I thought.


Sorry about the off topic........Go Hokies!!! My son is a frosh at VT in the Engineering School.


----------



## Ryan (Nov 22, 2009)

Positive statements about the Hokies are always on topic in my book.


----------



## Big Iron (Nov 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> Positive statements about the Hokies are always on topic in my book.


LOL, very well. I'll be on the CAP in early January, car #3000, I'll report back the car location then.

Edit: Actually car 2900 as I'll be going westbound. Still the same orientatin within the train though.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 22, 2009)

Big Iron said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > Positive statements about the Hokies are always on topic in my book.
> ...


The CL has had her sleepers at the front and will continue to have them at the front. All Superliner trains are _currently_ like this so there is easy access to the transdorm sleepers. (Exceptions being, of course, trains like the EB which have multiple sections.)The diner provides a buffer zone between coach and sleeper, the SAs can generally keep coach pax from sneaking in--it also means that sleepers don't have to walk through coach to get to the diner.


----------



## abcnews (Nov 22, 2009)

Are those two sleepers (2900 & 3000) identical? If we plan a trip on that train is there a preferred sleeper?

BTW - Do they have the family BR on the Capital Limited?


----------



## Bob Dylan (Nov 23, 2009)

abcnews said:


> Are those two sleepers (2900 & 3000) identical? If we plan a trip on that train is there a preferred sleeper?
> 
> BTW - Do they have the family BR on the Capital Limited?


Thats just the placement on the train number, the actual car might be different but it will be the closest one to the diner!

Since its a Superliner train Yes the Family Bedroom is on these trains!


----------



## abcnews (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks Jim!

BTW - If I use Amtrak Guest Rewards to travel one direction on the Capital Limited.... And I use the 20,000 award (one zone) for deluxe BR.... If it is my wife and I - how many kids (if any?) are allowed on the free ticket, with meals, etc, if we opt for the Family BR? Also - I just looked, may need the 2nd zone award anyway - depending on destination from DC.

*And forgive me - if I am out of line for bringing this up, (off topic). I'm a little bit new here..


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 23, 2009)

abcnews said:


> Thanks Jim!
> BTW - If I use Amtrak Guest Rewards to travel one direction on the Capital Limited.... And I use the 20,000 award (one zone) for deluxe BR.... If it is my wife and I - how many kids are allowed on the free ticket, with meals, etc, if we opt for the Family BR?
> 
> *And forgive me - if I am out of line for bringing this up, (off topic). I'm a little bit new here..


The CL uses Superliner IIs by the way-- they are a bit more modern than the older Superliner Is, but not as "nice" as the refurbed Superliner Is.

Depends on the kid's age, they generally don't allow three adults to share the bedroom-- a tot would be no problem. The Family Bedroom can have two kids at no additional charge.

Also to CL from CHI-WAS is a TWO zone reward. The zone border is TOL, so in order to redeem a one-zone reward it must be between WAS and TOL or TOL and CHI.


----------



## abcnews (Nov 23, 2009)

The 2nd zone for that award really bumps up the amount of points needed (30,000), so I guess we either pay the difference from TOL to say Chicago, or else we just plan a trip further out and get our "points worth" - like Denver or somewhere out on the edge of zone ll.


----------



## Ryan (Nov 23, 2009)

Pay from WAS-TOL - it's usually dirt cheap (relatively speaking) and then reedeem a 1 zone to go anywhere Central or 2 zone to go anywhere in the West.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 23, 2009)

abcnews said:


> The 2nd zone for that award really bumps up the amount of points needed (30,000), so I guess we either pay the difference from TOL to say Chicago, or else we just plan a trip further out and get our "points worth" - like Denver or somewhere out on the edge of zone ll.


If you're heading East you can go to basically anywhere between Ohio and Florida, the longest trip East to Toledo would be to Miami....

In any event going East what you need to do is redeem a reward from TOL- your destination. Most likely your room won't be sold between CHI-TOL so you can then call the regular Amtrak ticket agent, explain what is going on, and book the exact same room you're given by the AGR agent. This means you don't have to switch rooms mid-trip and you also get to earn AGR points for that ticket.

This principle works going West too. Redeem TOL-CHI and wherever in the Central zone you wanted to go-- after you get your assigned room TOL-CHI get transferred to a regular booking agent, tell them what car/room AGR put you in TOL-CHI and book it from WAS-TOL. _However_ it may be better to buy the WAS-TOL segment first and redeem the AGR award next. This is because it is more likely that somebody will purchase the same room WAS-TOL than TOL-CHI, so you run the risk of getting sold out. If all ten bedrooms on the CL are booked between WAS-TOL, you won't be able to purchase one for that segment.

(There's probably a sparknotes version of this somewhere).

If you're going West you can then go to any number of places on the same reward. Remember that your reward stays the same even if you transfer trains. By redeeming a bedroom you'll have bedrooms the entire way (or BC seating on non-sleeper trains). You could head to NOL, DEN, Texas, ect. Anywhere in the Central region.

If you knew where you were starting and where you were planning on going, this would be a lot easier to tailor to your individual needs.


----------



## abcnews (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks so much for the help. I just learned that I had about 16,000 points on GR and really was not aware it was as valuable as it is. I figured maybe "half off" on a coach fare or a free BC upgrade. Anyway, I had the account for several years and it had not done too much - inactivity, etc... and we had just recently responded to the Chase CC offer (5,000 mile bonus). So now I have a quick 16,000 and then discovered you can also purchase points (10,000 per calendar year).

So we would like to do a nice off season trip this winter. But there are few Superliner options in zone one (I guess - Capital Limited and Auto Train?). But we have always really enjoyed the Viewliner trips on the Cardinal. Loved the Cardinal when it had Superliners (Sightseer car). But with a large family - it seems like the Family Bedroom is our best value (with Amtrak free rewards).


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 23, 2009)

The Auto Train is kind of "special" in the eyes of Amtrak. In order to get on the Auto Train you need a separate reward.

I agree about the family bedroom-- however besides the CL there are no options for you to transfer to another Superliner on the Eastern zone, you'll have to go West.


----------

