# Toronto-Havelock, Ontario train service moves forward



## CHamilton (Jun 5, 2014)

Passenger rail plans on track: MP



> Peterborough MP Dean Del Mastro says plans to run a new passenger train from Havelock to Toronto are still on track.
> 
> Del Mastro told Peterborough County council Wednesday that an important engineering study is done and will be delivered soon to both the federal and provincial governments.
> 
> ...


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## fairviewroad (Jun 5, 2014)

Wow, that seems like a project with quite a few details to iron out. They don't even know where in Toronto the train will terminate? And yet they're still projecting it to be immediately profitable with no cost to taxpayers?

Uh, yeah.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 5, 2014)

Del Mastro has been pushing this one for years. Peterborough is just at the limit of commuter territory and it would make much more sense as a GO Train service not VIA…….just like Niagara Falls


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## Anderson (Jun 12, 2014)

Yes, but VIA has the Rens laying around and GO is probably short on equipment. At the same time, the "outer edge of commuter territory" also describes several Amtrak routes.

2500/day would require what? At least 4-8 round trips depending on whether VIA runs short consists of 4 cars or can run longer sets for a change?

Edit: Peterborough is 86 miles from Toronto. New Haven is 81 miles from New York. Poughkeepsie is 82 miles from New York. And any service past Peterborough is going to get up into the 100+ mile range (Havelock is 116 miles out, which would come close to a tie with Montauk for distance covered by a commuter run). This probably belongs with VIA, not GO Transit.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 13, 2014)

Anderson said:


> Yes, but VIA has the Rens laying around and GO is probably short on equipment. At the same time, the "outer edge of commuter territory" also describes several Amtrak routes.
> 
> 2500/day would require what? At least 4-8 round trips depending on whether VIA runs short consists of 4 cars or can run longer sets for a change?
> 
> Edit: Peterborough is 86 miles from Toronto. New Haven is 81 miles from New York. Poughkeepsie is 82 miles from New York. And any service past Peterborough is going to get up into the 100+ mile range (Havelock is 116 miles out, which would come close to a tie with Montauk for distance covered by a commuter run). This probably belongs with VIA, not GO Transit.


[SIZE=10.5pt]I would have to disagree. Peterborough to Toronto is 86 miles……about the same as Niagara Falls to Toronto at 82 miles. (I believe Havelock (pop 1,500) is only in the equation as it’s a railway servicing/layover point)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Peterborough currently has frequent GO service with buses connecting to GO Trains at Oshawa.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/PDF/Timetables/CurrentBoard/Table88.pdf [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]On the Niagara Falls route, when GO Transit added all-day bus service connecting to trains in Burlington, passengers abandoned the morning VIA train into Toronto and the evening return service in favor of the cheaper and almost hourly bus-train combination even if they had to change in Burlington. The remaining joint VIA/Amtrak Maple Leaf has also seen a drop in local passengers between Niagara Falls and Toronto. There are also through summer weekend GO Trains to Niagara Falls. Regular fares to NF: VIA $40. GO Bus $17. GO Train $20 (you can get an advance purchase fare on VIA for $20 with restrictions)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I could be wrong, but in the same scenario, I can’t see passengers abandoning the frequent and cheaper GO service for a new VIA Peterborough train even if it offers a one-seat ride to Union Station in numbers to justify establishing the service. Makes more sense for an eventual through GO Train. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Same thing happened when GO extended train service to Kitchener, passengers abandoned VIA for the more frequent and cheaper GO service, even if some runs involved a bus to train connection.[/SIZE]


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