# Security procedure invasiveness?



## first_time_amtrak (Jan 29, 2013)

Hello all,

We are used to riding trains overseas, and we're wondering how invasive the "Random passenger and carry-on baggage screening and inspection*" are? We no longer fly in the US because it's so unpleasant, and we're wondering if trains are a viable alternative, or we only have driving left for moving around the country. We are thinking of getting a sleeper car on a WPB->CYN->WPB trip later this year. I'm not sure if the security differs per station? I've read through a lot of postings here, but there's not much mention about whether we should expect radiation and groping, or merely metal detectors, questions, and dogs. Thanks for any advice!


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## SarahZ (Jan 29, 2013)

I've been on Amtrak countless times, as in 100 or more trips, and I've only had my purse "searched" once. I say "searched" with quotation marks because they just shined a flashlight in it and didn't even rummage around. I had a ton of stuff in my purse too.

I've never been patted down or had my luggage searched. The stations don't have x-rays or metal detectors either.

It's as easy as getting on a bus.

Chicago Union Station does have a drug/bomb dog that wanders around, but that's it. She's really cute.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks Sorcha, that's very reassuring. We don't mind what happens to our luggage, just our persons, and we're dog people too.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Jan 29, 2013)

Amtrak is not like the airports. You dont have to worry about groping and xrays and such. At worst, you may have to deal with a bag search here and there, but nothing overly harsh.

If you happen to be on a train and Border Patrol gets on, you may have to deal with the routine Are you a citizen question.

Otherwise, sit back, relax, and enjoy your trip.


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## TinCan782 (Jan 29, 2013)

In El Paso, the Border Patrol routinely walks the train asking the "Are you a citizen question". However, they didn't contact the passengers on the platform who stepped off the train for fresh air or a smoke!


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## benjibear (Jan 29, 2013)

The security is really tight and they will search you everytime.  (answered for any would be terrorists reading the forum)


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## the_traveler (Jan 29, 2013)

In all my travels by Amtrak, I have never been searched, asked for ID or otherwise questioned. The closest to being questioned has been when the Border Patrol asks me my citizenship. As soon as I said "US", they moved on! Nothing intrusive like at airports.

I'll take the way Amtrak does it over the way airports do it. Whenever I can (unless I had to be there "yesterday"), I fly Amtrak!


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## Ispolkom (Jan 29, 2013)

On a recent 5-day trip I encountered TSA personnel at Houston and Los Angeles carefully not interacting with passengers. I'm not sure why they were there, but no harm, no foul. In Portland two young men seem to have attracted the attention of 1) a plain-clothes policeman, 2) a uniformed policeman, and 3) Sniffy the Police Dog. All three law enforcement officers seemed very curious about the Big Dufflebag of Dope the two young men had. Especially Sniffy. He was one excited dog.

So as long as you're not carrying a BDD, you'll not have much interaction.

This shows the basic realization that there are hundreds of thousands of grade crossings in the US, and just about every day some nonterrorist driver manages to ram a train at one of them. What's the point of searching passengers while ignoring grade crossings?


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## RRrich (Jan 29, 2013)

We just completed a ten day train trip to Canada and back. No unpleasentness from Customs/Border Patrol/TSA personell.

As Ispolkom points out with all the grade crossings and all the rail running near highways if you want to mess it up why go to the expense of buying a ticket?


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## Amtrak Cajun (Jan 29, 2013)

I bet those two guys in PDX got free bracelets and a free ride to the Grey Bar Hotel.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jan 29, 2013)

I bring pointy knives, food, and huge water bottles on the train, just because I can.


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## BCL (Jan 30, 2013)

I've seen a couple of Amtrak Police K-9 officers come through the car I was riding in. Not sure if they were trained to sniff for contraband though.


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## Trainmans daughter (Jan 30, 2013)

D.P. Roberts said:


> I bring pointy knives, food, and huge water bottles on the train, just because I can.


As you wish!


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## George Harris (Jan 30, 2013)

If you have been used to riding trains overseas there will be a few differences. What these differences will be depend upon what things were like where you were. I have been used to "reserved" equals having a car number and seat number on your ticket, but did not have your name on it. That is not the way in the US. In the US, "Reserved" simply means the number of tickets sold does not exceed the number of seats available. Also, you will be asked for identification when you buy and pick up your ticket, and your ticket will have your name on it.

Also, with the exception of some of the major stations there is no control of access to platforms, much less any sort of security checking.

If you are used to "set your watch by it" schedule keeping, forget that. Generally there is quite a bit of fat in the scheduled times, particularly in the last segment before a terminal. For some of the long distance trains this can be as much as an hour. This is in consideration that most US lines are single track, and many of those that are multiple track are very heavily trafficed so that it is common for faster trains to catch up with slower ones and having to run quite a few miles at much lower speeds before passing.

Ride quality is likely to be much rougher than you are used to. Just remember that comfort is way inside safety. There are legally defined track safety standards that are strongly enforced. But the point is that these are *Safety *standards. The railroad companies are under no obligation to maintain to a higher standard and, since passenger trains are for the most part a side show, they do not maintain higher than the level that makes economic sense, not public relations sense.


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## SarahZ (Jan 30, 2013)

Guest said:


> Thanks Sorcha, that's very reassuring. We don't mind what happens to our luggage, just our persons, and we're dog people too.


I should add that the dog is a K9 unit and can't be pet (booo), but she's fun to watch. She's always with her assigned officer, and they wander around the public waiting area near the gates.


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## jsreeves (Jan 30, 2013)

Stumbled across this yesterday about a random TSA search in Austin.

Don't really see the point as any search is purely voluntary.


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## BCL (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Sorcha, that's very reassuring. We don't mind what happens to our luggage, just our persons, and we're dog people too.
> ...


You're not supposed to pet working dogs, but for the most part they are dogs and generally like people. They're not likely to bite someone simply for reaching out. That would be a huge liability issue if they did.

I remember playing a pickup game at a local park with a sheriff's deputy. He brought the dog he was training to try to socialize it. That dog really liked people, and the deputy had no problem when kids were showing up and trying to pet it. However, the joke going around was "don't run".


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## Ted Bell (Jan 30, 2013)

Lack of TSA instrusion is a huge reason I enjoy travel to Northern California from Utah on Amtrak. It is difficult to explain to friends and family why I prefer a 14 hour train ride versus a 2 hour flight. But after a reasonable conversation describing the process which incudes expensive long-term parking, arriving at least an hour early, going through security, hoping the plane leaves on time, the cramped space on the plane, etc., they seem to understand why I prefer the train.


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## chrsjrcj (Jan 30, 2013)

jsreeves said:


> Stumbled across this yesterday about a random TSA search in Austin.Don't really see the point as any search is purely voluntary.



Those checkpoints are voluntary, until you refuse, then you're detained with your items searched for being suspicious. Gotta love it.


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## Ted Bell (Jan 30, 2013)

If one is detained after refusing a "voluntary" search, it isn't voluntary.


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## dlagrua (Jan 30, 2013)

All this TSA search nonsense is worhless. Billions of dollars later, not a single terrorist has been caught since the creation of the DHS and TSA. All thats needed at any station or airport are bomb sniffing dogs. They have them at NYP and CHI and I don't mind seeing them there as they are non-intrusive. They are very efficient and accurate when sniffing for explosives.


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## jsreeves (Jan 30, 2013)

chrsjrcj said:


> Stumbled across this yesterday about a random TSA search in Austin.Don't really see the point as any search is purely voluntary.



So you actually have proof of this ever happening?

Please do share.


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## jsreeves (Jan 30, 2013)

Of course, there is this if you do object, I guess (from the Amtrak website):

"Amtrak, along with the Amtrak Police Department, has a range of behind-the-scenes and front-line security measures in place to ensure passenger rail security.

Among these security measures, some of which are conducted on an unpredictable or random basis, passengers may notice any of the following in stations or onboard trains:


Uniformed police officers and Special Operations Units
Random passenger and carry-on baggage screening and inspection*
K-9 units
Checked baggage screening
Onboard security checks
Identification checks
*With due respect to passengers' privacy, the random screening and inspection of passengers and their personal items will be completed as quickly as possible - usually in less than a minute. *Passengers failing to consent to security procedures will be denied access to trains and refused carriage, and a refund will be offered.*"


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 30, 2013)

Did anyone see the Video of the HLS Secretary testifying to Congress about Immigration Reform? She had a Detail of Uniformed hLS Agents/Bodyguards with her and sitting right behind her was a Guy that is a Spokesman for Immigration Reform and is here from the phillipines ILLEGALLY! <_< Keystone Cops comes to Mind, and this from the Agency with the Largest Budget and Number of Employees in Washington!

Maybe they should be out putting on Dog and Pony Shows @ Amtrak Stations on the NEC!! :angry:


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## JoeBas (Jan 30, 2013)

*Passengers failing to consent to security procedures will be denied access to trains and refused carriage, and a refund will be offered.*"

Whelp, no offense, but if my choice is "Comply or we'll give you your money back", I know which one I'm picking.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the feedback, and thanks jsreeves for the video. We don't mind dogs sniffing us or our luggage, but I would not react well if someone scanned or touched our daughter, badge or not, so I try to avoid those situations. Sounds like the trains in the US are still a viable option for us for now.


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## the_traveler (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree. "Voluntary" to me does not mean "Comply or here's your money back, but you can not travel". At least to me the word voluntary means you have a choice to comply or not.

In prison, you have to do what you're told, even if the guards say please. I would not call that "voluntary". I may be wrong, but the choice is "Comply or go back to your cell". I doubt it means "You don't have to do this, and if you chose not to, you can go into town tonight"!


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## George Harris (Jan 31, 2013)

The rationale behind the whole TSA thing started as a protection of the passenger by protecting the planes and passengers from those that would do them damage. Remember it is relatively easy to blow a plane out of the sky and get to the cockpit and therefore the pilot. Over time this has morphed into we need to know who you are and what you are carrying and various other things as their whims dictate.

The basic reason does not apply to trains at all. It takes a lot of explosive to do any real damage to a train. The engineer is generally inaccessible, and it is somewhat difficult to get a train to follow any path other than straight down the rails, to say the least. Therefore, we are left with only the "we need to know what you are up to" aspects, in other words, the control portions which should not be any part of the government's business in a free country.

I can accept the idea of the drug sniffing dog. I can accept the concept that the train crew can have a trouble maker put of the trains into the welcoming arms of some law enforcement agency, but this whole "guilty until proven innocent" aspect of the current search and inspection operation in airports and now sneaking into other transportation modes is simply turning what should be our country's legal system unside down.

So far as I am concerned, the government has no business knowing why and where I am traveling, what I am carrying unless it is harmful to those around me, or even who I am when I am traveling. It is an invasion of privacy to demand an answer to these things.


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## BCL (Jan 31, 2013)

George Harris said:


> So far as I am concerned, the government has no business knowing why and where I am traveling, what I am carrying unless it is harmful to those around me, or even who I am when I am traveling. It is an invasion of privacy to demand an answer to these things.


Then definitely don't leave the country. Some government employee will ask upon return.
Heck - even with domestic travel there are different inspection. I had a USDA inspection of a carryon bag when I left Hawaii. Upon entering California there may be border inspection stations. It's considered voluntary, but failure to comply can result in a vehicle being denied entry. The system has been in place since the 1920s and has survived Constitutional muster.


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## JayPea (Jan 31, 2013)

BCL said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > So far as I am concerned, the government has no business knowing why and where I am traveling, what I am carrying unless it is harmful to those around me, or even who I am when I am traveling. It is an invasion of privacy to demand an answer to these things.
> ...



One time, and one time only, while on a SWC trip from Chicago to Los Angeles (and then to Seattle on the CS), I was asked my name, where I was going, etc. This was at Albuquerque, and the "interviewer" in question was a plain-clothes Albuquerque cop. I didn't see the reason then nor do I now of asking such questions, but I'm sure to the dismay of those who think answering such questions amounts to being a "sheeple", I did answer them. I suppose the alternative would have been a huge hassle, culminated by being escorted from the train. Not worth it, in my book. Luckily I was going to Los Angeles and then on to Seattle; I don't know what would have happened if I'd been headed to Chemult or Wishram or some other equally obscure outpost. :wacko:

The most invasive interrogation I've ever had was, ironically, on a road trip, and, even more ironically, pre 9-11. I took a day trip into Canada, to enjoy the sights and to take some photos, and, on my return back to the U.S. was greeted by a very surly young woman who absolutely did not seem to believe one thing I said. :angry: She didn't believe I'd come into Canada just for the heck of it (the border is only a few hours away from me so it's not like I drove days to get there), refused to believe me when I told her where I worked, even though I was wearing a jacket with my employer's name and logo on it, and got angrier every time I didn't give here the answer she wanted. :angry: She ended by insisting on a hand search through the trunk of my car and through my fishing tackle box. The interrogation only ended when, in the pursuit of God knows what, got a handful of fish hooks for her trouble. Just what you'd expect to get while rummaging around a tackle box, especially with dusk setting in! She was madder than ever at that point, but decided to cut her losses (after cutting her hand :lol: ) and let me go.


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## George Harris (Jan 31, 2013)

BCL said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > So far as I am concerned, the government has no business knowing why and where I am traveling, what I am carrying unless it is harmful to those around me, or even who I am when I am traveling. It is an invasion of privacy to demand an answer to these things.
> ...


Since I spent the most part of 17 years working outside the country, I had noticed that. During that time, I was in and out between once and twice a year, and had probably about the same number of boder crossing between other countries, except for one period of two years where on average I made a round trip between Hong Kong and Taiwan on average about every 3 weeks. And, in that time, I will have to say that the least professional, least consistent, and in many ways also the least proficient customs inspection has been that of the US. One of my high points in silly questions was once coming in through Seattle, I think it was, being asked by they guy who was holding my US passport in hand, "Why are you entering the United States?" I am thinking, what is the trick here? while giving him the straight and simple answer.

Since the Hawaii - California inspections are related to plant diseases and parisites, I tend to regard these as legitimate. After all, the point is to control the movement of pests, not of persons. You dump the non-allowed substances and you are on your way.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jan 31, 2013)

Personally, I don't care what the government knows about me. I don't see privacy as a constitutional right. So, they can search me and my bags. It starts to bother me when I'm restricted from doing things that aren't harmful - like bringing a drink, knitting needles, or a sandwich onboard. In my opinion, if the TSA can't tell the difference between a sandwich and a bomb, they need to either A) prohibit air travel altogether, or B) warn everyone of the risks and let them get on with life.


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## BCL (Jan 31, 2013)

George Harris said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > George Harris said:
> ...


I wouldn't disagree that US Customs agents aren't less than proficient. However, their *raison d'être* is to discover contraband and to find stuff that they can levy duties with. Maybe they ask stupid questions, but I do think there's a method to it. A lot of times nervous people bringing in contraband or hiding something expensive they bought overseas do get tripped up over simple questions.


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## amamba (Feb 1, 2013)

I would like to add that the amtrak police routinely sets up in the PVD station and they swab the bags of all passengers boarding amtrak trains. This is the only station that I have seem they do this. Although they haven't done it for the past couple of months.

But I think it is incorrect to say that the OP won't run into any security or searches on a train trip. There surely is a likelihood that it won't happen, but it might. I have also been asked for ID on trains before, too, by the conductor.


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## George Harris (Feb 1, 2013)

BCL said:


> I wouldn't disagree that US Customs agents aren't less than proficient. However, their *raison d'être* is to discover contraband and to find stuff that they can levy duties with. Maybe they ask stupid questions, but I do think there's a method to it. A lot of times nervous people bringing in contraband or hiding something expensive they bought overseas do get tripped up over simple questions.


Since my usual return to the US was some 15 to 20 hours after walking out of my door on the Asian end after being up for much of the night before if a "day" flight or a full day work plus if a "night" flight, I was usually considerably less than coherent by the time I went through customs. I am a citizen, You looked to see that I am bringing in nothing illegal. There is no need for anything else. As to the foreigner, there is very little difference: I have a visa, You looked to see that I am bringing in nothing illegal. There is no need for anything else. That for the foreigner's visa, particularly for the hoops you have to jump through to get a visa. We have seen friends that wanted to come for a visit turned down because "Your English is too good. Prove you will not become an illegal immigrant." How do you prove you are not going to do something?


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## BCL (Feb 1, 2013)

George Harris said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't disagree that US Customs agents aren't less than proficient. However, their *raison d'être* is to discover contraband and to find stuff that they can levy duties with. Maybe they ask stupid questions, but I do think there's a method to it. A lot of times nervous people bringing in contraband or hiding something expensive they bought overseas do get tripped up over simple questions.
> ...


Again, it's more than just contraband they're looking for. They're supposed to assess duties on items purchased overseas beyond the limit of $800 per person.

And you'd be surprised at some of the things I've seen. Once I brought some abalone. It was a gift at the airport although we didn't have Ziploc bag and actually carried it wet on some napkins. I figured it was worth declaring rather than getting in trouble. The customs agent took one look at it and said that was fine. I also had Vegemite (actually extras from an attendant on a dining car in Australia). I didn't know how to describe it, so I said "yeast extract". He kind of scratched his head and asked to see it. Once I showed it to him, it was "Oh - Vegemite - that's OK".

The weirdest thing I ever saw was the woman in front of me in the US citizen/pemanent resident line. She filled her form and the Customs agent actually waved her through after looking over the form. Then he changed his mind and told her to stop. He wanted to find someone who spoke Mandarin to ask her if she knew what the heck she was doing, because apparently what she put down didn't make that much sense. I'm guessing she might have been a naturalized US citizen whose ability to understand English was actually pretty poor (I've known a few in my day).


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## the_traveler (Feb 1, 2013)

amamba said:


> I would like to add that the amtrak police routinely sets up in the PVD station and they swab the bags of all passengers boarding amtrak trains. This is the only station that I have seem they do this.


I was at MKA (the airport train station) a few years back, taking a MKE bound train. During the wait, there was a CHI bound train due. TSA set up a table and swabbed all passengers bags. After the CHI bound train had left, the TSA agents also left to return to the airport.

There was no webbing of bags for MKE bound passengers.


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## JoeBas (Feb 2, 2013)

D.P. Roberts said:


> Personally, I don't care what the government knows about me.


Says the man in the black mask... h34r: 



D.P. Roberts said:


> I don't see privacy as a constitutional right. So, they can search me and my bags.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, *shall not be violated*, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." -- Some Really Smart Old Dudes.

I've read this time and again. I've even read it in an original copy. And nowhere in it do I see anything in parentheses that says "Unless you're really, *REALLY* scared". I've looked time and again and again for the little asterisk leading to the fine print at the bottom that says "Unless some scary brown people attack us, in which case all bets are off".

What part of "Shall not be" do people have such a hard time understanding? :blink: :huh:


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## trainman74 (Feb 2, 2013)

JoeBas said:


> "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, *shall not be violated*, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." -- Some Really Smart Old Dudes.


Of course, one person's "unreasonable" search is another person's "perfectly reasonable" search. That, among other reasons, is why we have the judicial system, to interpret such things.

(Note: I am not personally opining that TSA searches of Amtrak passengers are "perfectly reasonable.")


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## winterskigirl (Feb 4, 2013)

Since when does the TSA do "voluntary searches" ??? Crap!! The last option for freedom in traveling America is going away.


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## BCL (Feb 4, 2013)

winterskigirl said:


> Since when does the TSA do "voluntary searches" ??? Crap!! The last option for freedom in traveling America is going away.


Technically TSA only does "voluntary searches". If you don't consent to their procedures you can be denied boarding, etc. At any time you can walk away from a TSA search. You may have some place you're trying to get to, but legally there's no "civil right" to transportation.

An "involuntary search" would be something like police searching a vehicle or person because they have probable cause, or if a search warrant is issued. One can't simply walk away from that.


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## JoeBas (Feb 4, 2013)

Of course, if you try to walk away from an airport TSA screening once it's started, they'll threaten you with an $11,000 civil fine.

But that's still voluntary... in their world.


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## white rabbitt (Feb 5, 2013)

George Harris said:


> Since the Hawaii - California inspections are related to plant diseases and parisites, I tend to regard these as legitimate. After all, the point is to control the movement of pests, not of persons.


there are a whole lot of human pests lol lol lol lol :giggle:


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## janet something (Mar 13, 2014)

I have never been searched on the amtrak and I have taken it across country more than 5 times.. from coast to coast.. Not even at the big station in Chicago, although I heard there was a drug sniffing dog that walked around, I have never seen it. Maybe it is because i was always in a sleeper and when you have a sleeper, you have access to the special room for 1st class ticket holders where they have "luggage valet", free drinks, snacks, wi-fi, plug in's, etc.. You board the train from that room, don't have to go into the terminal (unless you smoke and wanna go outside), but your luggage stays inside in a separate room with a handler. Now, the Greyhound, on the other hand, in Cleveland OHIO, we were searched by agents while standing in line to board the bus going to baltimore. No dog though, but 2 agents going through your bags.. (I suppose the 2nd agent was looking for anything the 1st agent might have missed).. People had to throw away knives, nail clippers, anything with a point, etc.. (and that was at 4 in the morning)..


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## iggy (Mar 13, 2014)

There is more than just a "cute dog" at Union Station Chicago. Actually on many recent trips I haven't even seen the dogs. Granted on most of those trips I was in Metropolitan Lounge. The TSA has had their hooks in Chicago Union Station for awhile. Announcements are made that random passengers will be selected for inspection. The only invasive I have seen is privacy being violated - by TSA rummaging through your belongings. 

Only once have I had to deal with this = years ago catching an Amtrak booked Greyhound to Las Vegas out of Salt Lake City Utah - TSA employee actually damaged a few things in my bathroom bag - but process didn't get touchy feely or invasive.


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## SarahZ (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't mind the random purse check, since I do that when I go to concerts, baseball games, and other public events as well. Purse checks are not limited to transportation alone. Anyway, I don't get an X-ray or a pat-down, and I don't have to take half of my clothing off and send it through a machine. So, really, the random purse checks at CUS are not a big deal in my mind.

I've never seen an actual TSA officer there. I'm not saying they don't exist; I've just never seen them in all the times I've been there. Maybe they aren't wearing blue gloves? /shrug I don't pay that much attention.


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## oldtimer (Mar 13, 2014)

iggy said:


> There is more than just a "cute dog" at Union Station Chicago. Actually on many recent trips I haven't even seen the dogs. Granted on most of those trips I was in Metropolitan Lounge. The TSA has had their hooks in Chicago Union Station for awhile. Announcements are made that random passengers will be selected for inspection. The only invasive I have seen is privacy being violated - by TSA rummaging through your belongings.
> 
> Only once have I had to deal with this = years ago catching an Amtrak booked Greyhound to Las Vegas out of Salt Lake City Utah - TSA employee actually damaged a few things in my bathroom bag - but process didn't get touchy feely or invasive.


I know that the TSA not the Amtrak PD were out in full force on February 28, 2014. They seemed to be chatting up people while the dog was randomly sniffing the person's bag. I don't know if they were following a profile or not. The TSA was definitely in charge as there was even an agent of the TSA sitting at the Amtrak Police Department desk.


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## BCL (Mar 13, 2014)

Maybe not train related, but I saw a bunch of DHS Police at the Ferry Building in San Francisco as I was waiting to take an Amtrak bus. They were walking around in uniform and were mostly waiting for the ferries to board and offload passengers. I was talking to the Amtrak staffer at the station building, and he said they sometimes look at what's happening with the Amtrak passengers.

Sounds like they have wide discretion to monitor all forms of transportation.


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## Anderson (Mar 13, 2014)

I've had my bags swabbed at CUS. Only time that ever happened (notwithstanding border crossings). Other than that, I've seen some "cute dogs" at WAS and NYP. There's some "show of force" military security at NYP as well, but they don't seem to _do_ anything and I've never seen them interact with anyone but the occasionally horribly lost person randomly asking them for directions (which I _have_ seen at least once).

Edit: Besides that, the only time I've seen DHS was at Orlando once when I was getting off the _Meteor_. That's the only time I've seen DHS show up, and given a mix of reputations I sometimes wonder if their presence on the Florida routes isn't actually drug-related more than anything.


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## SarahZ (Mar 13, 2014)

Why does everyone keep putting "cute dogs" in quotes like that? In my original post, which was ages ago, I said they are drug dogs and then added, later, that they are cute and I wish I could pet them. I wasn't trying to diminish the service they provide or sound like a dopey preteen. My apologies (and embarrassment) if it came off that way. :blush:


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## Anderson (Mar 13, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> Why does everyone keep putting "cute dogs" in quotes like that? In my original post, which was ages ago, I said they are drug dogs and then added, later, that they are cute and I wish I could pet them. I wasn't trying to diminish the service they provide or sound like a dopey preteen. My apologies (and embarrassment) if it came off that way. :blush:


Honestly, I find it an amusing way to describe them...not to mention finding a certain irony in it. Oh, and the fact that my best friend will see one and shout "It's a puppy!" to me doesn't hurt, either. (Don't worry...he's military, he knows not to approach them or pet them, but he still makes the comments)


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## Trainmans daughter (Mar 13, 2014)

This is Atlas, and he was indeed adorable. We met him onthe CS between Seattle and Portland in 2010. He seemed to love his job, but really wanted to play with my granddaughter!


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## SarahZ (Mar 13, 2014)

Anderson said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Why does everyone keep putting "cute dogs" in quotes like that? In my original post, which was ages ago, I said they are drug dogs and then added, later, that they are cute and I wish I could pet them. I wasn't trying to diminish the service they provide or sound like a dopey preteen. My apologies (and embarrassment) if it came off that way. :blush:
> ...


Oh, ok. I thought people were making fun of me.


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## The Whistler (Mar 13, 2014)

When traveling by rail security must be realistic. There are thousands of miles of tracks that run coast to coast and hundreds of station stops that are not manned. Passengers board and depart all along every route ( except the A/T). Big brother cannot screen everything. It is up to the people to become citizen observers so that we can all play a part in protecting our railroad system. If everyone keeps their eyes and ears open; combined with the bomb sniffing dogs at the big stations, the Amtrak police etc., trains should remain a safe environment for travel.


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## Ryan (Mar 13, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> Anderson said:
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Boy am I glad we dredged up a year-old thread to clear that up!


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## the_traveler (Mar 13, 2014)

The only time I have been searched (quick luggage check) and had my bags swabbed by TSA was when boarding at MKA (the airport station). I was taking a point run and rode to MKE before returning south. They only checked the passengers boarding the southbound train. As soon as it departed, they packed op and left. (The northbound had not arrived yet.)

The only time I've seen the dog was while waiting at BOS.


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## Everydaymatters (Mar 13, 2014)

I've seen the dog(s) several times at CUS. One of the times was when a group of AUers was waiting the Metropolitan Lounge before going to Boston. I have also seen a dog go through the train, I think it might have been in Kansas City. Another time in WV everyone in the lounge car was told by DHS to return to their seats. After everyone had their ID's checked, we were allowed to return to the lounge car. At that time, the DHS boarded at one stop, did their check, and detrained at the next stop. Coming back from the Gathering in Seattle, almost everyone got off the train at Havre. I was deep into an interesting book, so I stayed. I was asked if I was a citizen of the United States. I replied "Yes, I am" and he went on his way.

Based on my experiences, to not have seen the dogs, or to not have been checked, is an exception, rather than a rule.


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## SubwayNut (Mar 13, 2014)

I've only seen dogs actually aboard trains on Acela in particular in two places:

1) Riding from Boston South to Boston Back Bay

2) Walking the train during the 10 minute service stop in NYP on through trips.

Once I was boarding a NE Regional (in December 2012) for a New York to Newark points run (one of my usual add-ons to a trip up the Adirondack) and first tried to board at the exit concourse to be screamed off by an Amtrak employee. I even said "I always board down here" The response was "It's not allowed NEVER do it again" (I've done it on most of my trips since and never had a problem). To make matters worse, I go upstairs, join the regular line and get my tiny bag searched and checked for explosives. I don't think there was any communication between the levels but think I was profiled for it.


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## BCL (Mar 13, 2014)

I've seen dogs on Amtrak once riding Capitol Corridor. They were Amtrak Police - a pair of officers with a pair of dogs.

As for "cute dogs" - that's often my thinking when I see a police dog. It may be a working dog, but when it gets home with the handler it's usually treated as a family pet. I remember having a rescue dog sniff me like I was a friend of the handler. I've played with a police dog before when the handler (a sheriff's deputy training this dog) was playing a pickup game I was participating in. I petted a bomb sniffer once at some meet and greet event and it just wanted to play.

That's the real reason why people are advised to not approach working police dogs. They'll never get any work done if they're distracted. They're dogs that have to be socialized with people, and they usually like being around people.


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## SarahZ (Mar 13, 2014)

RyanS said:


> SarahZ said:
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My response didn't resurrect the thread...


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## jis (Mar 13, 2014)

I actually have seen Amtrak K9 folks so often on Acelas and NE Regionals that I don;t even pay any attention to them anymore.


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## Ryan (Mar 13, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> RyanS said:
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Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that you did.


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## 7deuceman (Mar 13, 2014)

I once made the mistake of being too friendly and speaking to an Amtrak police dog while seated in the (SSL) lounge car. During a stop, the dog and his officer boarded the train and were walking thru the train. When they came into the lounge car everyone was pleased to see the dog and he was quite friendly with everyone. 

When the dog came near me, seated by the window, I naturally turned toward him and made a few of those stupid "kissy noises" that we make to our dogs when we are petting and talking to them. The dog came much closer and began to sniff me and nuzzle my face a few times, which made a bunch nearby kids laugh quite loudly. 

Of course the officer was not pleased with me and after a moment he and the dog continued on to the remaining cars of the train, before jumping off onto the platform before we began to roll. Needless to say we arrived at our destination safely and on time wishing that the police dog could have joined us the entire trip.

I have wondered how the police dogs react while going through the diner. Do they get excited with all the food on the tables, right near their nose?


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## MrFSS (Mar 13, 2014)

7deuceman said:


> I have wondered how the police dogs react while going through the diner. Do they get excited with all the food on the tables, right near their nose?


Boy - I know I do! :lol: :lol:


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## gwschenk (Mar 13, 2014)

Last month on the Southwest Chief a kid was arrested at Albuqueruqe for smuggling a block of cocaine in his luggage. Our luggage was examined and another young man in our sleeper car was frisked and his room and luggage searched.

I asked the sleeping car attendant how he was caught and was told, "Oh, we watch."

Later that day, a person was escorted off the train and arrested in Raton for smoking on the train.


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## VentureForth (Mar 13, 2014)

7deuceman said:


> I once made the mistake of being too friendly and speaking to an Amtrak police dog while seated in the (SSL) lounge car. During a stop, the dog and his officer boarded the train and were walking thru the train. When they came into the lounge car everyone was pleased to see the dog and he was quite friendly with everyone.
> 
> When the dog came near me, seated by the window, I naturally turned toward him and made a few of those stupid "kissy noises" that we make to our dogs when we are petting and talking to them. The dog came much closer and began to sniff me and nuzzle my face a few times, which made a bunch nearby kids laugh quite loudly.
> 
> ...


 With the latest cuts in service, the dogs can't tell the difference between the dining car and the baggage car.


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## trainman74 (Mar 13, 2014)

VentureForth said:


> With the latest cuts in service, the dogs can't tell the difference between the dining car and the baggage car.


At least we don't have to worry about the dogs getting hold of any chocolate squares!


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## leemell (Mar 13, 2014)

BCL said:


> Maybe not train related, but I saw a bunch of DHS Police at the Ferry Building in San Francisco as I was waiting to take an Amtrak bus. They were walking around in uniform and were mostly waiting for the ferries to board and offload passengers. I was talking to the Amtrak staffer at the station building, and he said they sometimes look at what's happening with the Amtrak passengers.
> 
> Sounds like they have wide discretion to monitor all forms of transportation.


Pretty wide indeed for Federal property.. Here is the DHS responsibilities:

(a) * In General.— * To the extent provided for by transfers made pursuant to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, the Secretary of Homeland Security (in this section referred to as the “Secretary”) shall protect the buildings, grounds, and property that are owned, occupied, or secured by the Federal Government (including any agency, instrumentality, or wholly owned or mixed-ownership corporation thereof) and the persons on the property.


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