# No ticket scanning, again...



## AC4400 (Apr 22, 2013)

I took #14 Coast Starlight from TAC to SEA and the conductor let me board without scanning the ticket! This is the second time I experience this. He said the scanner was turned off already.

In this case, how could I get points for this trip?


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## Acela150 (Apr 22, 2013)

Well since this is the second time it's happened to you, my suggestion ride the Cascade service. They'll scan your ticket for sure.


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## June the Coach Rider (Apr 22, 2013)

If this happens to you, this is happening to others, I would contact Amtrak Customer Service and let them know about this. Too many people allow things to happen to them repeatedly just because. Speak up and ensure that your ticket is scanned. what if you were an elderly lady traveling on thru to Texas from Seattle, the remaining tickets would be cancelled for a no show because the conductor did not want to scan your ticket. The least he could have done was scan it when you were close to TAC, he would have to scan new people getting on I would think. I would have stayed vigilant and made him scan it.


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## Ryan (Apr 22, 2013)

Is it possible that he lifted your ticket without scanning?

Did you get the points the first time?


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## SubwayNut (Apr 22, 2013)

That was my solution when the Keystone conductor on a NWK-NYP reservation on a MET-NWK-NYP-NRO-NHV-SPG itinerary wasn't wanting to scan my ticket. I stood right by the conductor demanding him to scan my ticket after he didn't come by. When we got to Penn Station he turned his scanner on and finally did. This was after he explained that I would just get a refund for the trip instead (I explained no, it would cancel my entire trip).


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## yarrow (Apr 22, 2013)

we didn't get scanned on a recent cs trip either but our points posted fine. i dunno


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## jis (Apr 22, 2013)

When traveling by sleeper there have been couple of cases when my e-Ticket was not scanned. They probably marked me as checked based on the SCA provided information about the accommodation having been occupied by me. I was also checked as on when I was the only one that boarded at a station. The conductor had talked to me when I boarded and knew that it was me that boarded. This was on a Keystone.


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## AC4400 (Apr 22, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Is it possible that he lifted your ticket without scanning?
> Did you get the points the first time?


Nope. I didn't get the points, but got a no-show voucher the next day in my email.

This means Amtrak lost $$ while I lost points.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 22, 2013)

Seems to be a Conductor thing, they are either to Lazy or Stubborn to do it Correctly and we can't count on Conductors validating our e-ticket when we board even when we are the only one boarding and/or the Conductor knows us! Always Ask the Conductor when you Board is the Way to Go!!! (On my Point Run Trips on the Eagle the Conductors all know me but I still make sure they have scanned my ticket to/from Taylor!)


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## BCL (Apr 22, 2013)

Last weekend my kid and I were on a short trip and one of the reasons for doing it was to collect points. Before we got on board, a conductor asked if I was going to a particular station (wasn't the end of the line). I never saw the conductor inside the train and flagged him down at the destination. The other thing I was worried about was that maybe, just maybe my reserved thruway bus trip gets cancelled. He said that he already pulled my ticket. I think we were the only passengers to board that train at that particular station. I think the scanner's program has a list of passengers expected to board, and he asked the question to see if he should pull the ticket without having to track me down. After I got on the Amtrak bus, I checked my reservation on the Amtrak app, and it said "Paper Ticket Required" - which usually means that all segments have been used.

It was the San Joaquin, and we were only going RIC-EMY-SFC. It was also the first time I took the thruway bus to San Francisco. Our train was behind schedule about 15 minutes, and by the time we got there we saw about four different buses at Emeryville going to San Francisco. It was a mess because a lot of people didn't check their tickets for the bus number and lined up for the wrong bus.

So I should get 100 points for each segment? With a AAA discount, my fare was only $9. I specifically took the San Joaquin because I'd never taken it before and because it was cheaper than Capitol Corridor. I don't get the pricing either. RIC-EMY is $8.50 for both Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin. RIC-EMY-SFC is $10 on San Joaquin but $12 on Capitol Corridor. The buses look the same and go to the same places, so that can't be it.


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## jis (Apr 22, 2013)

On the NEC, finding a conductor while boarding may be a bit if a chore when the 9 car long train stops for a minute and the conductor and the flag are both four cars away in different directions. The only choice then is to chase them down inside the train, which I have done from time to time on my Metropark to philly runs. I have never had a problem tog et them to lift my ticket either byscanning or keying my name in or whatever method they choose.


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## AC4400 (Apr 22, 2013)

BCL said:


> Last weekend my kid and I were on a short trip and one of the reasons for doing it was to collect points. Before we got on board, a conductor asked if I was going to a particular station (wasn't the end of the line). I never saw the conductor inside the train and flagged him down at the destination. The other thing I was worried about was that maybe, just maybe my reserved thruway bus trip gets cancelled. He said that he already pulled my ticket. I think we were the only passengers to board that train at that particular station. I think the scanner's program has a list of passengers expected to board, and he asked the question to see if he should pull the ticket without having to track me down. After I got on the Amtrak bus, I checked my reservation on the Amtrak app, and it said "Paper Ticket Required" - which usually means that all segments have been used.
> It was the San Joaquin, and we were only going RIC-EMY-SFC. It was also the first time I took the thruway bus to San Francisco. Our train was behind schedule about 15 minutes, and by the time we got there we saw about four different buses at Emeryville going to San Francisco. It was a mess because a lot of people didn't check their tickets for the bus number and lined up for the wrong bus.
> 
> So I should get 100 points for each segment? With a AAA discount, my fare was only $9. I specifically took the San Joaquin because I'd never taken it before and because it was cheaper than Capitol Corridor. I don't get the pricing either. RIC-EMY is $8.50 for both Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin. RIC-EMY-SFC is $10 on San Joaquin but $12 on Capitol Corridor. The buses look the same and go to the same places, so that can't be it.


I think for a reservation that includes a thruway bus, a traditional paper ticket is issued. The conductor just collects the stub without scanning.


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## BCL (Apr 22, 2013)

AC4400 said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Last weekend my kid and I were on a short trip and one of the reasons for doing it was to collect points. Before we got on board, a conductor asked if I was going to a particular station (wasn't the end of the line). I never saw the conductor inside the train and flagged him down at the destination. The other thing I was worried about was that maybe, just maybe my reserved thruway bus trip gets cancelled. He said that he already pulled my ticket. I think we were the only passengers to board that train at that particular station. I think the scanner's program has a list of passengers expected to board, and he asked the question to see if he should pull the ticket without having to track me down. After I got on the Amtrak bus, I checked my reservation on the Amtrak app, and it said "Paper Ticket Required" - which usually means that all segments have been used.
> ...


Not with the Amtrak California buses. The driver was outside the door with a scanner just like the one that Amtrak conductors use. The bus segment was on the same eTicket with both segments on the same page. I had it available in several forms - Quik-Trak eTicket, print at home eTicket, iPhone app, and iOS Passbook. The only form I didn't have was an eTicket from a ticket window. The one at the ticket window still use 1D barcodes.

http://www.amtrak.com/eticketing-your-ride-is-just-a-barcode-away



> By early 2013, eTicketing will be enabled on all of the California Thruway buses.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 22, 2013)

I would think if a Conductor is not scanning all the tickets then Amtrak's books are going askew showing fewer passengers than there actually are, not to mention the accounting and auditing nightmares that opens up.


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## calwatch (Apr 22, 2013)

But sometimes it is physically impossible for a conductor to get through the train in the time allotted between stops, especially on corridor trains. This is why the auto cancel algorithm has a buffer built into it, which also makes trips like Bakersfield-SoCal via Thurway bus through purchase of a ticket from Wasco possible.


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## jis (Apr 22, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I would think if a Conductor is not scanning all the tickets then Amtrak's books are going askew showing fewer passengers than there actually are, not to mention the accounting and auditing nightmares that opens up.


Accounting and auditing nightmares? How so? Those not scanned simply get accounted for as if they are no shows. What's so nightmarish about that?


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## Blackwolf (Apr 22, 2013)

Would it not become obvious to managers if a particular conductor was not lifting tickets correctly over time, since this data is being transmitted and recorded instantly to Amtrak HQ? Are the scanners assigned to particular individuals, or does an employee have to log in to a device at the beginning of their shift, for accountability of lifted tickets and reservation changes (since these devices are also Point Of Sale capable for on-board upgrades/ticketing and are equipped with a magnetic credit card reader?)

If so, since Amtrak would be able to track a trend where a lot of e-Vouchering is occurring due to "no-show" reservations on a particular run/time-slot (and not to mention Customer Relations having to reopen auto-cancelled reservations as well as issue Service Recovery Vouchers,) it would appear to be quite easy for establishing corrective action against an employee regularly not fulfilling their duties.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 22, 2013)

jis said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > I would think if a Conductor is not scanning all the tickets then Amtrak's books are going askew showing fewer passengers than there actually are, not to mention the accounting and auditing nightmares that opens up.
> ...


Total fare collected does not match pax count. It is basic accounting.


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## BCL (Apr 22, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


Still - how is it a nightmare? If a ticket isn't lifted it simply goes into another category where it's credited. It might reduce the passenger count, but the fare itself isn't accounted for until it's either lifted or refunded.

I would think it's not much different than a retail business accounting for losses due to shoplifting, spoilage, or breakage. It's just another thing to worry about, but far from a nightmare.


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## AlanB (Apr 22, 2013)

jis said:


> Those not scanned simply get accounted for as if they are no shows.


Well that's not exactly correct either.

Depending on various circumstances, Amtrak can auto-recognize revenue. That means that all tickets will show as collected, even if one actually did miss the train. When that does happen, and you've missed the train for some reason, it can make things a lot of fun trying to get your refund or credit to new reservation.


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## AlanB (Apr 22, 2013)

AC4400 said:


> He said the scanner was turned off already.


What nonsense. It's an iPhone; takes less than a minute to turn it back on, if that. And frankly, it shouldn't even be turned off while the conductor is on duty.


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## Ryan (Apr 23, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


Still not seeing the problem. If you pay your fare and don't get marked "present", you're assumed to be a no show and sent a voucher.


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## jis (Apr 23, 2013)

AlanB said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Those not scanned simply get accounted for as if they are no shows.
> ...


My comment was about the situation where the ticket is not llifted at all, which was the case that started this discussion, since the person did not get the points for that journey. Yes there will be a different set of problems if the tickets are marked lifted without actually verifying that the passenger is on board.


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## jis (Apr 23, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


And how would the pax count recorded be different from the number of tickets recorded as lifted by whatever means? Issues of basic counting seems to come into play first  
Unlike on planes where an actual pax count is done independant of boarding cards scanned, I have never seen an independant count done on a train, unless there was some sort of survey of ridership going on. And that too usually happens on Commuter trains where there is no other way to actually know how many people are on a particular train.


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## VentureForth (Apr 23, 2013)

I DO know that the conductor can see a list of names on his iPhone. On my last trip, he had trouble scanning my QR code on my phone (slightly dirty screen) and he asked my name. He scrolled through the list of boarding passengers, found my name, and marked me present. Got my points. No problemo.

I suspect that if there is a station with only a couple of boarding passengers, he'll assume that you match the couple of boarding passengers on his iPhone and mark them present without necessarily talking to the pax. Not best practice by any means, but if there is a path of least resistance....


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## AC4400 (Apr 23, 2013)

AlanB said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Those not scanned simply get accounted for as if they are no shows.
> ...


Quick question: Shall I still get refund if I missed the train and I purchased the eticket from the station agent? How could Amtrak find me?


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## BCL (Apr 23, 2013)

AC4400 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


You can get an eVoucher for any unused ticket as long as you have the confirmation or ticket number. I'm thinking it might even be possible to look this up via name and train number with date/time. However, if you don't leave an email address or AGR number when you buy the ticket, there's no way for them to find you. You'd have to affirmatively seek the eVoucher.


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## Shanghai (Apr 24, 2013)

I have traveled on two trains (LSL & TE) recently where my ticket was not scanned.

I stopped the Conductor in the dining car and asked if he wanted to scan my ticket.

He looked at me and said you are in room 5? I responded yes and he said he had

already processed my ticket although he had not scanned it. There must be some

way they can record your boarding other than scanning.


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## pennyk (Apr 24, 2013)

Shanghai said:


> I have traveled on two trains (LSL & TE) recently where my ticket was not scanned.I stopped the Conductor in the dining car and asked if he wanted to scan my ticket.
> 
> He looked at me and said you are in room 5? I responded yes and he said he had
> 
> ...


That, too, has happened to me the last couple of times I was traveling in a sleeper.


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2013)

Shanghai said:


> I have traveled on two trains (LSL & TE) recently where my ticket was not scanned.I stopped the Conductor in the dining car and asked if he wanted to scan my ticket.
> 
> He looked at me and said you are in room 5? I responded yes and he said he had
> 
> ...


There is; the conductor can pull up the manifest on his phone in alpha order and check people in by last name. And in the case of the sleepers, he can figure out who is in what room and simply check you in that way.

Most don't do that, since it's still easier to scan the barcode and hit the button, but again it can be done manually.


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## BCL (Apr 24, 2013)

Shanghai said:


> I have traveled on two trains (LSL & TE) recently where my ticket was not scanned.I stopped the Conductor in the dining car and asked if he wanted to scan my ticket.
> 
> He looked at me and said you are in room 5? I responded yes and he said he had
> 
> ...


Several ways to do it. It can be done by guessing that a passenger on the manifest showed up, as has been mentioned. It can be looked up by name, reservation number, or ticket number.


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## leemell (Apr 25, 2013)

I was next tot he CS recently and saw the conductor call out the names and destinations of the passengers getting, no scanning.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 25, 2013)

In Sleeper (or Business) Class, my experience has been the conductor confirming our name and checking us in without even looking at our ticket or scanning it.

Last year on the Pacific Surfliner (Business class), the AC I believe, came through the car and wrote our reservation numbers on a piece of paper. Never got recorded and I got no points. Our ticket was purchased before eTicket and used after eTicket implemented. When I called AGR she was surprised I still had the entire ticket in my hand! I did get the points.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Apr 26, 2013)

When I rode the SL recently, he looked at my phone. He then asked me if I was Anthony, and then said, You are good to go, welcome aboard.


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## winterskigirl (Jun 26, 2013)

In May I traveled on the CS # 14 from Klamath Falls, OR to Seattle, WA and my eticket wasn't scanned. I was flagged as a "no show" and issued a voucher. Later called AGR and they credited me for the points and canceled the voucher. I didn't realize at the time that I needed my eticket scanned in order to get AGR points but it makes sense. Whenever I've had trouble getting points I've earned I have always called AGR and gotten results. No problem.


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## Acela150 (Jun 26, 2013)

winterskigirl said:


> I didn't realize at the time that I needed my eticket scanned in order to get AGR points but it makes sense.


How else would you get the points?? :wacko:


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## TinCan782 (Jun 27, 2013)

Acela150 said:


> winterskigirl said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't realize at the time that I needed my eticket scanned in order to get AGR points but it makes sense.
> ...


The AGR rules specifically state that you have to actually take the trip, not only buy a ticket.


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## Ryan (Jun 27, 2013)

That was kind of his point.


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