# GA Study Backs HSR Network



## Anderson (Jun 22, 2012)

And a bit of a bombshell came out of Georgia recently...

Courtesy of Rail and Reason. Quick summary: A feasibility study on three HSR lines emanating from Atlanta (to Birmingham, Savannah-Jacksonville, and the biggest shocker, Chattanooga-Nashville-Louisville). The cost estimates seem reasonably workable (ATL-BHM comes in around $3-8bn, or about $16-54m/mile; ATL-SAV-JAX is a bit cheaper per mile but much longer, and Atlanta-Louisville is _far_ more expensive because of the terrain involved).

Important bits:

1) The study does show the potential for the system to operate in the black.

2) There's no indication of the speeds or fuel sources being shot for (i.e. 125 MPH diesel operations versus anything electric and/or anything faster than 125 MPH).

3) A connection to All Aboard Florida at Jacksonville seems to be envisioned, potentially allowing for some interesting run-through options assuming that there's compatible equipment (i.e. that nothing more than an engine change is required).

4) TN looked at Chattanooga-Nashville-Louisville some years ago, but the project foundered because of a pile of problems (it was likely to be isolated once the Kentucky Cardinal went away, the Atlanta link got tangled up with that maglev dead end since nobody wanted to have conflicting projects, etc.).

5) As commented on Rail and Reason, it seems easily envisionable that the project could be linked to the Midwest HSR project, making for a potential revival of the Floridian in some form or another.

5a) There also seems to be another possibility, with this linking to SEHSR in Charlotte (per the previous study).

On the flipside:

1) It's Georgia. Enough said.

2) Good Lord, I hate those EISes. A third of this project is spent on environmental impact work (i.e. not even engineering work; it's _really_ a pity that those two sections couldn't be consolidated and sped up a bit).


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## johnny.menhennet (Jun 22, 2012)

Anderson said:


> 1) It's Georgia. Enough said.


Very true.

I see this as a good step though. Didn't read the link just what you posted - who by chance commissioned the study?

When you say good chance to connect to Midwest Network, this would probably be at Louisville, right?

Even though the cheapest, is it safe to say that the Birmingham route needs it the least? It should seem fair to say that north/south demand is higher here.

While demand to Chat and Nashville may be high, would it really be worth the cost of extending it to Louisville with the emptiness and harshness of the terrain involved?


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## Anderson (Jun 22, 2012)

johnny.menhennet said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > 1) It's Georgia. Enough said.
> ...


From what I am gathering, the state DOT commissioned the study (probably as a follow-up to the Atlanta-Charlotte study that has advanced to the environmental phase, IIRC).

The Louisville line is likely in there because of a hope to link to Chicago (and yes, I suspect that Louisville would be where they would hope to link to the Midwest network, even if they go through some strange jog over to Cincinnati). As to the Birmingham line, I do _not_ see that as a standalone operation under any circumstances. That is likely at _least_ seen as an extension of the line coming in from Charlotte.

Also of import: Note the presence in there of an "Atlanta H-JAIA" station. I'm going to take a random swing here: Delta (and potentially others) may be looking to dump as many short-hop feeders as they can to preserve air capacity at Hartsfield (much like the situation out in CA). This is an increasing theme because even if you improve the ATC systems, there are a number of places where you simply can't turn planes fast enough to clear up additional gate space. Birmingham-Atlanta or Savannah-Atlanta just aren't profitable runs anymore, and I suspect that there may be a move afoot to start dumping some of these shorter routes or cutting back service on them (such as we've recently seen with Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) so you can switch slots at some of the major airports over to the profitable international/transcontinental routes.

Actually, Atlanta nets three stations: Hartsfield, the MMPT, and "Cumberland Galleria" out in the suburbs in Cobb County.

Finally, the notes on Rail and Reason suggest something: If (and it is indeed a big if) this project, AAF, and SEHSR start getting some momentum and ridership keeps increasing on existing lines, there does seem to be a chance that a faction of the GOP may well get out of the way and/or at _least_ push for RRIF funding for some of these projects.


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## George Harris (Jun 22, 2012)

Anderson said:


> I hate those EISes. A third of this project is spent on environmental impact work (i.e. not even engineering work;


Welcome to the world of reality for anyone trying to get anything built anywhere in the USA.



> While demand to Chat and Nashville may be high, would it really be worth the cost of extending it to Louisville with the emptiness and harshness of the terrain involved?


Better take another look at the map both for population and topo. The worst of going cross-grain to the south end of the Appalachian Chain is between Atlanta and Nashville. The first 40 miles north out of Atlanta is almost continuous curves at around 35 mph. Chattanooga to Nashville is about 110 mph in a straight line, 130 miles by road and 150 miles by rail. To go from Chattanooga to Atlanta you leave the city going northeast by rail. To go from Chattanooga to Nashville, you leave the city going southwest by both rail and interstate highway. Once you get past nashville, getting to Louisville is relatively easy.


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## Trogdor (Jun 22, 2012)

This study and $6.30 will buy the sandwich I just had for lunch.


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## jis (Jun 22, 2012)

I must admit it left me shaking my head in bemused astonishment. After retiring I think I will get into the rail corridor study business


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## jphjaxfl (Jun 25, 2012)

I was in Atlanta in 4/1995. GA was studying Athens to Atlanta commuter trains for the 1996weekend Olympics. I moved to Atlanta in 4/1996. No funding was made available for Athens to Atlanta even though Olympic funds would have available. Then a study was done on the ATL Airport -.. Chattanooga high speed maglev train

. Locals were excited about it, but no funding. Then a study was done on Macon - Atlanta commuter trains. No funding for anything other than studies. Study recommended service Griffin to Atlanta first extended to Macon later. Special commuter buses were started, no definite funding or plans for trains. I moved from Atlanta to Jacksonville in 2003. Train service was still status quo from 1996. I was in Atlanta 6/14 to 6/17. I passed the Atlanta to Macon commuter buses on a very congested I75. Atlanta traffic only gets more chaotic. Never believe any study from Georgia on improved passenger train service until you are able to board the actual train and travel some place.


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