# Last week was probably our last LD trip on Amtrak



## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

First of all, this is not an "I hate Amtrak!" rant. We're both railfans, we love LD train travel and what Amtrak _tries_ to be, but it's becoming clearer train travel in its current incarnation doesn't love us back.

After our experiences last week are taken in combination with numerous similar trips over the past several years, I'd say the odds of our taking another cross-country trip on Amtrak are slim. Not zero, but still unlikely. In a way, it's about Amtrak service, but mostly in relation with how it fits with how we live our lives. There are two issues, really. And a contributing third problem.

First issue is that the sleeper bunks are fairly uncomfortable. I hadn't previously processed just how uncomfortable they were until we got back home and I crashed on our sofa - which is _also_ too short and narrow for me to stretch out - but I slept really well given the softer, thicker cushions. It's that simple. At any rate, neither of us were sleeping well on the train and by the end of three days we were both tired and grouchy (and therefore my sleeping on the sofa!). My wife commented that the sleeper beds are just shy of a sleeping bag. I disagreed, but probably only because she's never experienced a sleeping bag on rocks without an air mattress.

But the second issue is likely the biggest one - the regimented dining car schedule, and the officious and surly DCA who enforces it. We don't eat three big meals a day on a strict timetable, and, being retired, we sure as hell don't get up at 6:00am just so we don't miss the breakfast service. By day two we feel bloated and lethargic, and no amount of walking the length of the train at service and crew-change stops mitigates it. Uncomfortable, again. I know we can't change the dining car management culture, but, rather, if the sleeping car passenger had the option of using their pre-paid meal allowance in the lounge car for lighter meals on their schedule, not the DCA's, I'm sure we would have a much more enjoyable experience. Or, offer discounted sleeping accommodations without meals (but that would break their system, too).

Third, and well-documented on AU, the new points redemption system sucks for the LD customer. At least twice as many points for the same trips, and that's after shopping around for fare "buckets". It's still sort of a deal, but we are having serious conversations over breakfast over how good a deal it really is considering the time it takes for us to recover from each leg of a trip.

So... it looks like we're returning to car trips for our annual West Coast outings. Not happy about that, either, because it takes more time and is still very stressful and tiring, but in different ways. We were hoping the train would be a relaxing way to get from here to there and back, but after multiple tries it's just not working out that way.

[sigh]


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Mar 14, 2016)

Quote:

“the sleeper bunks are fairly uncomfortable ... also too short and narrow for me to stretch out”

Just speaking for myself, I'm a BIG guy at 6' 2". The _roomette_ 'berth' for me was large enough for me to lay full length,

and wide enough for me to _flip_ over from side to side (not _roll_ over).

I see on the Amtrak website that the length of the lower ‘bunk’ is 6' 6“ and the upper is 6' 2“.
They are narrow, so you can’t _spread out_. But then, you are riding on a train.
https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241210576173

I actually commented several times to friends I was visiting in San Diego how impressed I was with comfort of the roomette bunk bed.

Again, just my experience and opinion.


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## StriderGDM (Mar 14, 2016)

One thing that might help on the meal front is inform the Sleeper car attendant that you want your meal in your room. This may give you a little more control over when (or less, depending on how on top of things they are.)


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## chakk (Mar 14, 2016)

While I would agree that the AGR points required for TWO people to travel LD in a sleeper may have increased substantially this year, I have found so far that ALL of my trips in a sleeper traveling alone have required FEWER points in the 2.0 system than they did in prior years.


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## tommylicious (Mar 14, 2016)

Yeah I'm 6'3, slim build, and I fit fine. How tall/big are you that you don't fit? If you don't fit on those bunks, there is no train system in the world, save for a private car which has a king size bed, in which you can sleep.


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

StriderGDM said:


> One thing that might help on the meal front is inform the Sleeper car attendant that you want your meal in your room. This may give you a little more control over when (or less, depending on how on top of things they are.)


Considered that, but the issue is the limited service hours, and then the heaviness of the fare. Given the limited resources on the train, I'm completely sympathetic that the dining car crew can't be open-ended on either menu or hours. Plus we try to be as small a burden to the SCA as possible, especially this last trip with a lot of particularly "needy" folks pressing the call button constantly.

Anyway, on a "normal" day for us whether at home or traveling, we awaken 7-8 a.m., dawdle over coffee and tea, and have a light-to-medium breakfast around 9 or so. We break for lunch at 2-3, then catch a very light nosh mid-evening. _None_ of that fits with dining car hours, nor does the menu.

That the evening selections are consistently (OMG!) heavy doesn't help. Tasty, yes, most of the time, but still really heavy. Once we figured out this was part of our gastric discomfort problem, it was a real feat convincing the server that all we wanted was salad, something to drink and then a light dessert. That the lunch full salad is not served for dinner was annoying, plus one supper I wanted "just a hamburger" (supposedly a lunch item available for dinner) and was rebuffed that they weren't doing burgers that evening. Crimeny!

I guess the meal plan is OK for a single overnighter. An overindulgent dinner later than we normally eat, a hearty if too early breakfast, and then resuming our life out in the real world would work. But two nights and three days on the train, this gets to be a bit much. I wish there were lighter meal options, but I'm not ready yet to spend extra cash on lounge car snacks as meals when we've already paid the equivalent of $200 or so (Amtrak prices) for full sit-down meal service.

Crabby, you must sleep on plywood at home.  As much as I will the bedroom bunks to be tolerable when we're riding, the contrast on getting into a real bed at our destinations (either hotel or home) was really apparent this time around. BTW, I'm not that tall, so bed length is not the issue. It's the narrowness that bothers me, even in the lower bunk in a bedroom, which is the largest bed available.


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## StriderGDM (Mar 14, 2016)

I do agree that 2-3 days on the train you'll be eating hearty.

And yeah, I'd be very annoyed by the lack of a burger (btw, for lunch, the veggie burger is delicious!)

As for the bunks, I don't mind them (though 90% of the time it's just me and I get them to put both mattresses on one bunk so it's even better) but I can see that.

I think a bit thicker wouldn't be too bad.


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## bobnjulie (Mar 14, 2016)

We always find the crew very accomdating.... sorry you ran in to a surly LSA but when I was recovering from my nightmare flu, they were really great. They served me only rice with ginger ale.... they even said " You're first class.... you can order whatever you want." We also enjoyed the Parlour Car, which seems to serve a lighter menu....

While my husband prefers the bunks on Via, we both love train travel and the leisurely pace... and naps.... and we definitely don't miss those long car trips although since I would like to go to Monument Valley, we will probably have to rent or borrow a motor home... but I know how much more work it will be - with the worries, the traffic.....the parking....


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## Manny T (Mar 14, 2016)

Hey OP what I relate to most in your posts is having to relax AFTER a LD trip. For sure almost always the case for me. Ironic how Amtrak promotes train travel as a relaxing way to go. Not much mention of rocking side to side, noisy halls and neighbors, train whistles, and announcements starting at 6 AM. And this is in a sleeper. (I realize for some, none of the above are a problem.)

Where I part company is on the dining front. Working with Amtrak menus and limited hours of service, I still find there are lots of techniques for customizing and personalizing what is offered. You always have the option of ordering less than what is offered. I have never ordered sausage or meat with my breakfast, although it is invariably offered. For lunch, a salad is always an option. For dinner, one could have a salad as well (admittedly, a small one.) Think about the steak dinner without the steak--you have a vegetarian meal of salad, baked potato and veggies. I've often wondered why Amtrak doesn't offer this as an official option.

The same applies to time of meals. I often ask for breakfast to be delivered to my roomette during "last call for breakfast" and then eat it an hour later when I get up. With dinner, I might have it delivered early and eat it whenever I'm hungry. I found the majority of attendants I've encountered to be good on all these points. And my LD trips are better this way.


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## RSG (Mar 15, 2016)

To the OP---please don't misinterpret my comments as negating or minimizing your issues, but i do have some thoughts.

As to the meal issue, I agree with *Manny T*; I attempt to customize my meals in the dining car as much as possible. I also try to replicate what I would eat off the train. I avoid white flour and white rice and so don't have any pasta items and forego the dinner rolls and the buns that come with the burgers. I notice that many people make the observation about how stuffed they are after dinner, often after eating one or more rolls, as if they have to partake of whatever is served and how it is served. I usually have the steak, but usually with the rice pilaf, and never a baked potato. In addition to ordering a steakless steak dinner, another option might be to forgo the starch altogether and just have it served with the vegetables. All in all, it sounds like what you're really asking for is a "senior menu" (which would be a rather easy task to accomplish, if mix-and-matched from existing menu items).

When at home, I tend to eat a light breakfast (a protein/nutrition bar & coffee) and then a large dinner plus a snack or two during the day. I also tend to wake up late and have breakfast (and consequently dinner) late. Though I try to make all the dining car meals offered, at times I have missed one simply because I'm already full from the previous one (usually that would be lunch). I've observed quite a few people who say that they either skipped lunch or breakfast because they weren't up and/or hungry. Since I prefer to eat late meals, I usually make last call for lunch and attempt to get the latest dinner reservation possible (usually it works okay, since I tend to board trains in the middle of their runs, save for departing from Chicago). I consider the onboard meal service somewhat of a treat, since there is no way I would eat three meals of that nature at home, or even once I've reached my travel destination, as I'm usually busy doing other things.

As for the sleeping issue, I've found that I really don't sleep well at all on trains---3-4 hours, at most; with a couple of naps during the day if on the same train. But I no longer sleep well on airplanes, either; compared to when I was younger and could fall asleep even before the beverage cart rolled around. However, I also don't sleep as well--or for as long as periods--at home as I once did. I chalk it up to officially having reached middle age. I do agree with those who use the double-mattress system. I've realized that I prefer sleeping on the upper bunk of a roomette, and so will often just use the bottom bunk mattress on top of the upper bunk, as long as I have an SCA who isn't too anal about things. I've also found that this creates an upslope towards the inside of the car, so there is not as much fear about falling off or hanging outside the bunk. This also enables me to take an after-breakfast nap, as I find I'm usually awake even before the time the sun comes up and so I take advantage of the lightly-populated dining car around the time of first service. (For those who are bothered by the train noises including the announcements by apparently frustrated DJs, I have one word of advice: earplugs!)

It seems the best solution to your rail travails (aside from the automotive [SIZE=11pt]alternative[/SIZE]) would be to schedule in a layover of a night (or possibly more) for each overnight on a train. This is one of the frequently mentioned tips in both the rail travel guides, as well as some of the AU traveler tips. I have yet to spend more than two consecutive nights on a train, but am not sure I would want to do that, either. It's kind of a stimulus overload in more ways than one; not unlike spending several days in a Vegas casino.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Mar 15, 2016)

I view train travel as an adventure. One that I enjoy. It's not comparable to a hotel stay.

Similarly, when I fly, I just accept that I'll be packed in like a sardine. ^_^


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## willem (Mar 15, 2016)

Sleeping in the upper bunk of a Superliner roomette is already cramped. Even if the mattress for the lower bunk is only an inch thick, that is an inch of vertical space that I would hate to give up. In a Viewliner, I have done it.

I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones when it comes to AGR redemptions. With no records to back me up, I would guess that over 15% of the itineraries that I check have a redemption rate requiring more than 34.5 points per dollar. I am remembering to calculate the ratio using the adult fare rather than a discounted fare, and that is not including the minimum points per leg issue that wreaks havoc on journeys that include a bus leg. Combined with the lack of any bonus points for sleeping accommodations (compared to business class), paying for the second passenger, the minimum points per leg, and basing the points on the Adult fare rather than the cash fare for which the passenger is otherwise eligible, I am sure feeling the depreciation of AGR 2.

Train travel, at least for me, is not about collecting points, so AGR 2 is a disappointment but not a reason to stop riding Amtrak. The reduction of menu choices and the standardization of the menu on long distance trains do represent a loss of Amtrak's competitive advantage. Also, the reduction of amenities, such as the removal of Pepsi products from the sleepers, indicate a trend that is not good. I mentioned the Pepsi products because I did drink them. Of less concern to me personally but indicating a declining experience are the (erratic) limitation on water bottles, the reduced availability of coffee and juice, and the removal of pillows (and blankets?) from coach.

Still, I'm not quite ready to abandon Amtrak. But I do recognize the problems that C855B mentioned at the start of the thread, and I expect that my average miles per year will not be what I would have anticipated just a few years ago.


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## neroden (Mar 15, 2016)

I like the bunks myself, but I have also had serious problems with the dining cars; I now can't eat anything but the eggs and the salad, due to lack of documentation of ingredients. Amtrak really needs to get the dining cars straightened out.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2016)

I noticed on the new menus it no longer says "Lunch / Dinner" - I guess Amtrak gave up offering the lunch items for dinner since the crews were inconsistent about it? That's a real shame, having the burger, Veggie Burger, and Entree Salad available at dinner offered simple and picky eaters a few more choices.

Can anyone here confirm if the burgers are ever offered for dinner anymore?


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## neroden (Mar 15, 2016)

Multiple crews refused to implement the change. I don't think much of the dining car crews as a whole at this point... I've seen some good ones, but I've seen so many terrible ones...


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## andersone (Mar 15, 2016)

I have still had 457 more bad trips on airlines than I have on Amtrak,,,,,,gonna take a while to even out,,, sorry you had a bad experience, life is like a pendulum, yours just swung the wrong way


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## jis (Mar 15, 2016)

Amtrak needs to be good irrespective of what airlines do. And frankly in the last six months I have not had a single bad experience in First Class in airline, which I get into rather frequently due to status based complementary upgrades, something unheard of at Amtrak. So YMMV as Bob Dylan would say.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2016)

neroden said:


> Multiple crews refused to implement the change. I don't think much of the dining car crews as a whole at this point... I've seen some good ones, but I've seen so many terrible ones...


The underlying problem seems to be Amtrak makes a change for the better (in this case making menu changes that give passengers more options for dinner) and the crews refuse, so Amtrak just changes it back and says "That didn't work." No.... Amtrak announces mystery riders or spot checks by management and if a crew is not serving the menu as instructed the LSA gets in serious trouble. The Amtrak train managers need to be out doing their jobs and insisting on a certain level of consistency. Of course knowing Amtrak that would backfire and the good LSA's would get in trouble for giving someone an extra can of Pepsi or something.

That being said... I've been very happy with most of the dining car crews I've encountered in the last couple of years. The good ones are out there, if you can be lucky enough to avoid the bad ones.


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## niemi24s (Mar 15, 2016)

This thread reminds me of the old retort to a young GI's complaint - "Go tell the Chaplain and get your TS card punched!"


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## Bierboy (Mar 15, 2016)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> I view train travel as an adventure. One that I enjoy. It's not comparable to a hotel stay.
> 
> Similarly, when I fly, I just accept that I'll be packed in like a sardine. ^_^


I'm with you, Crabby. Our train travel is the focal point of any vacation we take.


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## tim49424 (Mar 15, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> crabby_appleton1950 said:
> 
> 
> > I view train travel as an adventure. One that I enjoy. It's not comparable to a hotel stay.
> ...



Same here. OP, you can drive, I'll take your spot on the train!


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## RSG (Mar 15, 2016)

tim49424 said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > crabby_appleton1950 said:
> ...


I'm totally with you guys. Travel is an adventure, and rail travel is a part of that. Oftentimes it's good, sometimes it's mediocre, and occasionally it's bad (though I find, in retrospect, that my attitude is a fair part of the negative experiences). Also, after decades of driving (and having to do so in order to get anywhere locally), I like to limit my road trips to the distance it takes to get to the most convenient Amtrak station!


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## Sauve850 (Mar 15, 2016)

I agree with RSG that attitude plays a big part. Sometimes a cross country or any Amtrak trip is a head game. I have learned over the years to compromise and adjust as need be. I don't travel as much as some but do cross country every summer back to Florida and shorter overnight trips here and there. When I do travel I'm fortunate to get a bedroom each time and traveling single I avoid neighbor noise by being in bedroom A in superliners. It works for me. Noise? I use ear plugs if necessary. I sleep with four pillows and an extra blanket. I stay up at night with curtains open and watch it all go by till I'm tired and manage to usually get decent nights sleep. I find the bed to be just fine. I am a little over 6 feet tall.

I don't usually eat three meals a day on the train. I'm usually up for breakfast 730-800 ish and have a good size one. A snack for lunch and then dinner. Ive done the steak less dinner and a dessert to go. Ive also skipped breakfast and went to café car for something small and had a lunch and dinner. On trains Ive taken that leave 6-7pm like the Cap out of Chicago I bring my dinner on the train, have my bed made when the sca introduces him/herself and I don't have to worry about a late dinner.

So for me its been a series of adjustments over the years. And I enjoy the adventure like others.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 15, 2016)

C855B said:


> First issue is that the sleeper bunks are fairly uncomfortable. I hadn't previously processed just how uncomfortable they were until we got back home and I crashed on our sofa - which is _also_ too short and narrow for me to stretch out - but I slept really well given the softer, thicker cushions.


Now we just need to find a way to merge Amtrak with a sofa. Hmm.









StriderGDM said:


> One thing that might help on the meal front is inform the Sleeper car attendant that you want your meal in your room. This may give you a little more control over when (or less, depending on how on top of things they are.)


This is the most relevant and most helpful advice in the thread, at least in my view. I can confirm that using your SCA can improve your dining experience dramatically. SCA's tend to be less regimented and more accommodating than the dining staff. They still have to work within the broader limitations of the chef's options, but at least they try to honor reasonable requests without much trouble. Or at least that's been my experience.



bobnjulie said:


> We always find the crew very accomdating.... sorry you ran in to a surly LSA but when I was recovering from my nightmare flu, they were really great. They served me only rice with ginger ale.... they even said " You're first class.... you can order whatever you want." We also enjoyed the Parlour Car, which seems to serve a lighter menu.


 That really hasn't been my experience at all. In fact the majority of my disappointment with Amtrak has come from interacting with the dining car crews and especially seeing how they chose to treat new passengers who weren't aware of that specific crew's expectations and idiosyncrasies. Amtrak's dining car crews can be amazingly bossy to customers and yet extremely sloppy at managing their own tasks. That kind of blind hypocrisy really grates on my nerves. I'm generally satisfied with my experience at conventional restaurants but Amtrak dining disappoints me on a regular basis. Even In-N-Out Burger's silly "secret menu" offers more meaningful modifications than anything I've seen on Amtrak. I think it's more honest to say that compared to virtually any other restaurant Amtrak doesn't really support any changes besides trivial "hold the pickle" type alterations.



RSG said:


> I don't have any pasta items and forego the dinner rolls and the buns that come with the burgers. I usually have the steak, but with the rice pilaf and never a baked potato. In addition to ordering a steakless steak dinner, another option might be to forgo the starch altogether and just have it served with the vegetables.


 I think this thread officially jumped the shark when folks started advocating for a "steakless steak dinner" as some sort of improvement. There are so many tasty meals out there that don't require massive carbs and calorie counts but Amtrak either isn't aware of them or simply doesn't care to explore such options. At least during the "Chef Inspired" phase the meals were tasty and interesting enough to make the empty calorie count less of an issue.



niemi24s said:


> This thread reminds me of the old retort to a young GI's complaint - "Go tell the Chaplain and get your TS card punched!"


 If riding an Amtrak sleeper compartment with fares in the hundreds or even thousands of dollars reminds you of being paid to work as a grunt in the armed forces then maybe that says more about Amtrak than it does about the passengers.


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## Asher (Mar 16, 2016)

Try sleeping on the floor for a few nights before a train trip and that roomette bunk will feel pretty good. As far as feeling stuffed from too much food try cutting back a tad. ☺


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## niemi24s (Mar 16, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> niemi24s said:
> 
> 
> > This thread reminds me of the old retort to a young GI's complaint - "Go tell the Chaplain and get your TS card punched!"
> ...


Maybe it does to you, but not to me.


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## jis (Mar 16, 2016)

niemi24s said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > niemi24s said:
> ...


I thought DA's characterization was a good and valid one, and I did get a chuckle out of it.


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## MnMotherMary (Mar 16, 2016)

We just got back from a Great trip on the Zephyr & the staff going out was superb and the staff on our return trip were sub par. Especially when we just had the best possible crew on the trip out.

Anyways, yes the mattresses are rock hard compared to our sleep number bed set at 25. We just deal with it for the 2 sleeps on our trip compared to the fantastic views and relaxation of the train instead of driving.

I solve the food problem of feeling lethargic with all the food you CAN order & make it work for me. I had pancakes for breakfast right before last call. Just a salad for lunch & the steak dinner at 1st seating with no steak. Just baked potato & vegetables with the side salad to start.


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## the_traveler (Mar 16, 2016)

Here's an idea as far as the meals:

If you don't want to eat until 9 am, why not ask your SCA (the night before) to bring your breakfast to your room about 9 am? :huh: And you can get your coffee when you want in your car. Problem solved.

If you only want a salad, drink and desert for dinner, why not order a salad, the smallest meal, a drink and then desert in the DiningCar? :huh: Then when it comes, do not eat much (or any) of the main meal? Or does the server stand next to you with a gun to your head and refuse to bring you anything more until you clean your plate?

Most times, I leave much of my burger and chips at lunch, but they still give me my drink and desert!

I am 6' and never had a problem in a roomettes.


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## glomor (Mar 16, 2016)

I know it would be a bit pricey, but have you considered getting two roomettes? The one trip I took sharing a roomette with my husband was a nightmare. I could not sleep in the top bunk--felt like I was in a coffin. And it was difficult getting up and down! If we ever travel together again, it will definitely be two roomettes! I often travel alone and I am intrigued by the idea of doubling up the mattress. I never thought of asking. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## HARHBG (Mar 16, 2016)

Perhaps it's time to get rid of the dining car as it exists today and go to a buffet/cafeteria style food service. No arguments/fussing with LSA/SCA's about what comes with what. Take what you want. Find a table, sit down.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 16, 2016)

HARHBG said:


> Perhaps it's time to get rid of the dining car as it exists today and go to a buffet/cafeteria style food service. No arguments/fussing with LSA/SCA's about what comes with what. Take what you want. Find a table, sit down.


Amtrak has tried that... for what it's worth Amtrak has actually tried alot of things. It's a little bit harder than some of us pretend it is to please everyone. (including congress). That's not me saying that amtrak is perfect of course.

It was many many years ago when I saw the Amtrak Cafeteria car in operation... I don't remember being particularly impressed with it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 16, 2016)

Many of the complaints the OP had are actually complaints about train train in general and not specific to Amtrak.

He would have the same complaints on VIA Rail's Canadian -

Size of Beds - The Roomette and Bedroom Beds are the same dimensions as Superliner Beds . (More comfortable, with better quality bedding and a real mattress yes, but the size is the same.).

Meal Times - Same as Amtrak... Come to Breakfast during Breakfast hours, come to Lunch and Dinner at your reservation time. You can't go to the cafe for free snacks, those will cost extra. Yes even if you skip a meal in the dining car, the snacks will still cost money.

Size of Meals - Pretty much the same. Actually meals are larger, I remember Lunch and DInner both starting with a choice of salad or soup. (Of course the food is much better so perhaps you'll actually WANT to eat that much at a time?).

The OP is of course entitled to their opinion...Train travel is not for everyone! Personally I enjoy taking a road trip across a country as well. I eat quite different than on an Amtrak trip, I try to find Whole Foods, or similar healthy markets with good salad / hot bar to choose from. Then I can walk around the store and grab some snacks for the next part of the drive. I can plan stops to see random sites along the route, and yes I sleep much better in a Hampton Inn Bed than on a train!

But I enjoy train travel alot.... There is a certain feeling about going to sleep in a private room on a moving train that is literally traveling across the country. And to wake up, walk into the next train car and be served a scrambled egg breakfast and coffee while watching the country wake up.... It's a unique experience for sure.


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## the_traveler (Mar 16, 2016)

HARHBG said:


> Perhaps it's time to get rid of the dining car as it exists today and go to a buffet/cafeteria style food service. No arguments/fussing with LSA/SCA's about what comes with what. Take what you want. Find a table, sit down.


I didn't like them either!  
I remember the buffet cars Amtrak had on the Silvers in the 1970's or 1980's. I hated them! You walked along the buffet line to chose your food, luckily employees carried the plates to your table for you.

If you think it's hard to walk on the train, try standing in line and choosing your hot food while holding onto plates of that hot food!


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 16, 2016)

I remember the Buffet Cars also! I agree, they suck!

A Long Distance Train isn't the place for a Cafeteria or an all you can eat joint!

Amtrak needs to upgrade the Cafe Menus, go with a POS System and return to what was happening in the Diners up to a couple of years ago with Chef inspired meals!

Whether or not this means Contracting out the food and drink service is above my pay grade, but is worth a look!


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## boxcarsyix (Mar 16, 2016)

MnMotherMary said:


> Anyways, yes the mattresses are rock hard compared to our sleep number bed set at 25. We just deal with it for the 2 sleeps on our trip compared to the fantastic views and relaxation of the train instead of driving.


Mine is set at 85. I find the lower berth on the superliner to be a little on the soft side.


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## niemi24s (Mar 16, 2016)

jis said:


> niemi24s said:
> 
> 
> > Devil said:
> ...


I'm tickled pink you're pleased with yourself. As for me, all I have to add is...uh...<yawn>


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## zepherdude (Mar 17, 2016)

If this post here makes you feel good, so be it. Amtrak will just get others to replace you and you guys will miss out on a cross country train trip. Threats never help anyone or any issues. Write the Railroad and vent your issues to them. Nothing will happen butt, that will make you feel better too!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Mar 17, 2016)

zepherdude said:


> If this post here makes you feel good, so be it. Amtrak will just get others to replace you and you guys will miss out on a cross country train trip. Threats never help anyone or any issues. Write the Railroad and vent your issues to them. Nothing will happen butt, that will make you feel better too!


Or the original poster will drive cross country one or two times and will be back on the train(s). I am assuming he/she refuses to or is afraid to fly and buses are even worse than trains when it comes to sleeping and eating schedules. Again the problem is Amtrak has a monopoly on intercity train travel. If they had real competition like the airlines or even Greyhound (Megabus) they might worry more about losing passengers.


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## andersone (Mar 17, 2016)

I always take the top bunk in a roomette for the comfort of She Who Must Be Obeyed,,,, it is a camped and coffin like for sure but beats trying to sleep in coach,,,,life is full of compromises, this is just one of them


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## tricia (Mar 17, 2016)

glomor said:


> I know it would be a bit pricey, but have you considered getting two roomettes? The one trip I took sharing a roomette with my husband was a nightmare. I could not sleep in the top bunk--felt like I was in a coffin. And it was difficult getting up and down! If we ever travel together again, it will definitely be two roomettes! I often travel alone and I am intrigued by the idea of doubling up the mattress. I never thought of asking. Thanks for the suggestion!


Two roomettes are often less expensive than one bedroom. If you're OK with a toilet down the hall, two roomettes across the hall from each other is a more comfortable arrangement for two people than a bedroom, in my opinion.


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## willem (Mar 17, 2016)

Plus, with the two roomettes, you can look out either side of the train.


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## rrdude (Mar 17, 2016)

While not everyone imbibes, I find *no problem* sleeping on Amtrak's woefully uncomfortable "mattresses", after a cocktail, or three.

Let's not forget that the OP *is* a fan of rail travel, so saying, "._..Train travel is not for everyone! ...._" is not, IMHO, a valid excuse.

I for one generally agree with virtually everything the OP wrote. In summary, Amtrak's service and on-board dining options are no longer a reason to take the train. In fact, the *only reason*, I take an Amtrak LD anymore, is for the scenery and camaraderie. Sure, you'll run into a dynamite crew once in a while, but they are hamstrung on what they can serve in the diner. It's a pure joy to have a kick-ass TA-S, but it should be the *norm*, not the exception. Equipment age is also becoming an issue. Hard to believe that I worked for Amtrak when the Superliners were being rolled out, and in nearly 40 years, nothing has been done, yet, to replace them.

For me the single biggest loss is the "experience" of pretty-close-to-fine-dining on the rails. The Superliner kitchens were _designed _to serve a full service menu: Dishwashers, storage for china plates, dry storage, cold storage, toasters, ovens, microzappers, convection, flattop grills, we even had a special place in the reefers upstairs for the bud vases and carnations....I'm not an old fart, (well I am...) just lamenting about "how it used to be". I'm saying, MOSTLY WITH TRAINING, it *could be stellar.*

I don't really recommend Amtrak LD travel to folks who have , how shall i say this, "higher expectations". Why? I've been burned too many, *way* too many times, after friends took a trip, and _hated_ it. Been saying it for years, when you have to "Be everything to everybody" you end up pleasing no one. That's Amtrak.

We can ***** about budget cuts all we want, and state that everything would be better if Amtrak had a dedicated source of funding. BS. It's management. It's training. It's Top-Down attitude. More money would be great, but as we all know from our personal lives, it "don't fix stupid".

My last LD was set for this summer, unfortunately, I got "bumped" from the Cali-Chi-Baltimore "Bedrooms-All-The-Way" trip, by my wife, who is *no fan* of Amtrak. (I made the last two trips X country with my boys, she wants a "girls trip" with our youngest daughter)

But ya know what? I don't care. I just have couple of months to lower their expectations....


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 17, 2016)

Excellent summation rrdude!


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## willem (Mar 17, 2016)

Well stated, rrdude! And to answer the question in your "Interests" item, it does seem to be too much to ask (especially clean windows), but it shouldn't be.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 17, 2016)

tim49424 said:


> Same here. OP, you can drive, I'll take your spot on the train!


How many points based medical surveys does it take to book a cross country trip in a sleeper?



crescent-zephyr said:


> Many of the complaints the OP had are actually complaints about train train in general and not specific to Amtrak.


Most passenger trains don't take several days to reach their final destination. It's much easier to overlook a problem that only lasts a few hours verses one that lasts several days in a row.



crescent-zephyr said:


> He would have the same complaints on VIA Rail's Canadian


In my experience the beds on the Canadian were surprisingly comfy with far better mattresses, sheets, blankets, and pillows than anything I've seen on Amtrak. I slept like a baby on those beds. The meals I ate on the Canadian were fresher, tastier, healthier, and more varied than what I've seen on Amtrak. They also had free snacks in the Park car. I never felt hungry or stuffed. In other words, the Canadian was a completely different experience that bore little resemblance to Amtrak.



zepherdude said:


> If this post here makes you feel good, so be it. Amtrak will just get others to replace you and you guys will miss out on a cross country train trip. Threats never help anyone or any issues. Write the Railroad and vent your issues to them. Nothing will happen butt, that will make you feel better too!


The OP's post didn't look like a threat so much as an explanation and clarification. The OP never said anyone else should follow his lead. We don't normally accuse positive trip reports with "threatening" to ride Amtrak again so why should we harp on folks who've decided they've simply had enough?


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## C855B (Mar 17, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Or the original poster will drive cross country one or two times and will be back on the train(s). I am assuming he/she refuses to or is afraid to fly and buses are even worse than trains when it comes to sleeping and eating schedules. Again the problem is Amtrak has a monopoly on intercity train travel. If they had real competition like the airlines or even Greyhound (Megabus) they might worry more about losing passengers.


Your conclusion is doubtful. We know how to drive cross-country and have done so many times, including coast-to-coast. The #1 rule is to avoid the dense, truck-laden Interstates whenever possible or reasonable, a/k/a "shun-piking". We have several efficient non-interstate routings to get us between, say, Ohio and Colorado. Granted, it always takes longer since we make our own adventure out of it and limit driving to no more than 9-10 hours a day, but we honestly enjoy it. Plus it takes only two days to "recover" from a driving trip, versus the train, where in both recent experience and past hindsight it can be as much as a week before our bodies and dispositions finally un-kink.

We are formulating a compromise plan for future excursions - an overnight train ride to get out of our "local" area, then rent a car and do mid-level to high-end hotels for the remainder of the trip, reversing the pattern when we're done. This limits the on-train meal situation to a dinner and a breakfast, and two isolated single nights of RV-quality bedding. It's also cheaper.

It's all about managing stressors. All travel has stress, our objective is to manage the degree and aggregate total. By addressing the _cumulative_ stressors of LD train travel, we can still enjoy the train when we're in the mood, get to where we're going... and not have to take a recovery vacation after the vacation.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 17, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > He would have the same complaints on VIA Rail's Canadian
> ...


DA... I actually like your posts, and usually agree with them MORE than the posts that praise amtrak constantly. But I do wonder did you read all of my post? Or did you just find a sentence that you could argue with and go from there. In my post I clearly state that VIA beds are more comfortable and the food is better. The snacks offered in the Park Car are hardly worth mentioning, but yes their is fruit and pre-packaged cookies and crackers in the Park Car, and at times the attendant will put out some fancy hors d'oeuvres. If anyone wants to have that in place of a meal.... ok. (The OP made the point that they can not purchase items in the lounge, instead of eating in the dining car on amtrak. I was stating this is the same on VIA rail.)


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 17, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > crescent-zephyr said:
> ...


I read your whole post but to be perfectly honest it was rather confusing to me. I'm still not entirely sure what you were actually trying to say. Your opening premise seemed clear and concise but was also repeatedly undermined by several parenthetical asides that seemed to openly contradict your primary position. Back when Amtrak still had "chef inspired" meals and "premium service" routes the distinction wasn't quite as obvious, but today there is really no comparison in my opinion. That's not to say the Canadian is perfect. I certainly didn't find VIA rail staff to be nearly as helpful or polished as the cost would indicate. If Amtrak ever gets around to taking staff training and service expectations seriously they could potentially compete with VIA. Unfortunately at this moment they're just too far behind the curve to see this as a reasonable comparison. At least in my view.


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## jis (Mar 17, 2016)

As far as cross country train trips go, when after dozens of trips one comes to a situation where one can almost qualify for the route, at least for me it starts getting boring. That together with the fact there is so much more to explore in the rest of the world even in terms of rail routes elsewhere, and of course the numerous non rail reachable places even stateside, life being short, and funds limited, one has to de-emphasize Amtrak travel and redirect the funds to other adventures. That is the situation I am finding myself in more and more these days.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 17, 2016)

My post was specific to the complaints the OP made. Sorry it got confusing.

I wasn't trying to knock VIA, the Roomette bed on VIA is by far the best bed I've ever had on a train. And of course the food and presentation is better.

All of the new hires I've encountered lately on Amtrak seem to be very focused on customer service. So I think Amtrak is taking it serious... it's the old, grouchy LSA's they need to get rid of, as no amount of re-training could possibly help them. (in my opinion at least).


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## Anderson (Mar 17, 2016)

jis said:


> As far as cross country train trips go, when after dozens of trips one comes to a situation where one can almost qualify for the route, at least for me it starts getting boring. That together with the fact there is so much more to explore in the rest of the world even in terms of rail routes elsewhere, and of course the numerous non rail reachable places even stateside, life being short, and funds limited, one has to de-emphasize Amtrak travel and redirect the funds to other adventures. That is the situation I am finding myself in more and more these days.


I probably _could_ qualify on the RF&P. I can't count how many times I've dozed off, woken up, looked out and been able to tell where I was from the _trees_...

Anyhow, I know what you're saying. I'm close enough to DC that to me, the system east of Chicago/New Orleans is functional transportation (and the local airline service is pretty craptacular out of PHF, which is basically a "third wheel" airport...and if I have to drive to RIC, why wouldn't I just go to RVR instead and enjoy the ride?), _especially_ with wifi on the Silvers. Better to take the train and have a nice supper en route than to fly and be miserable. Montreal also stands out as being "trainable" due to the sheer cost of flights to/from YUL (there's an old story I have where I saved money doing Acela-Adirondack vis-a-vis flying).

Aside from that, though, my experiences on the western long-hauls have gotten a bit exhausting. Realistically I might use them once in a blue moon if I have time to kill, for variety, or if it's a case where flying the whole way would be impolitic (e.g. a NARP meeting) but I've done the Chief a _ton_ of times. I'm really down to trying to "clear up" a handful of routes I haven't done, some rare mileage collection...and taking the train in the East where it still makes sense for me.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 17, 2016)

I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.


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## me_little_me (Mar 17, 2016)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.


I beg to differ. I find dining room service at restaurants from Burger King (as little in the way of service as anything could be) to airline food when offered in coach to comparably priced restaurants re Amtrak to fine dining ones is far more consistent with a far higher average than Amtrak. And that includes Denny's.

Similarly, I find hotel service people to average much better than Amtrak.

In both cases, I put the blame squarely on management. Anywhere but Amtrak, in my opinion, local management makes sure that things are done right and offers instant "compensation" of some sort when it wasn't. When that doesn't happen, it doesn't take too many complaints to corporate to find that the local manager's position is open to applicants.

Even the military was better. When the local family temporary housing manager refused to do anything about our lack of room heat, a simple call to his boss got me the statement "You will get heat or a new room with heat" and a fix within an hour. It's not that there is someone you can complain to. It's that the problem gets fixed because management is interested in fixing it.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Mar 17, 2016)

me_little_me said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
> 
> 
> > I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.
> ...


Once again, Amtrak has no competition.

And technically Amtrak management is Congress. Do you really think they care much if Amtrak succeeds? If Amtrak goes under they won't have to pay for it anymore.


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## jis (Mar 17, 2016)

The more local issue is that Amtrak LD trains do not have an on board service manager, the ludicrous reason for that is too convoluted to go through here. In other words, the establishment manager that loses his/her job due to bad service elsewhere simply does not exist at Amtrak.


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## JayPea (Mar 17, 2016)

I think there is too much of a tendency on the forum to get defensive when anyone dares to say that train travel is not for them. So be it. We all have our likes and dislikes, after all. The world would be one boring mess if we all thought alike.

As for me, I enjoy Amtrak travel even though I have been on most of the routes multiple times. I fall into the category of those who look upon train travel as the vacation itself as opposed to the ultimate destination. I have four weeks of vacation per year and a good portion of that is dedicated to Amtrak travel. One of my more enjoyable vacations, however, is a road trip I took last year from my home here in eastern Washington to the Black Hills in South Dakota, the focal points being a visit to Mt. Rushmore and a ride on the 1880's steam train. I can say I have ridden the rails in South Dakota now; something you have never been able to say riding Amtrak!  I agree with the point that there is so much to see in places Amtrak can't take you to.


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## RSG (Mar 17, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> Here's an idea as far as the meals:
> 
> If you don't want to eat until 9 am, why not ask your SCA (the night before) to bring your breakfast to your room about 9 am? :huh: And you can get your coffee when you want in your car. Problem solved.
> 
> ...


Perhaps it's the result of growing up with parents who grew up in the Great Depression, but the idea of food waste bothers me to no end. If you're not that hungry, don't order more than you can eat. Everything that is produced and served requires resources from production to end result. Food that is prepared and not consumed just adds to the overall costs of service operation. In most instances, Amtrak service stops are in medium-to-large cities. Many cities are mandating recycling and composting efforts, not only (or even primarily) for 'green'/environmental concerns, but because waste solutions are increasingly expensive. When the locales that are service stops start charging for non-separated waste and/or per pound of waste deposited, the bean counters (if no one else) will notice and start ordering reductions in meal service and portion sizes. That won't be pleasant for anyone, save the municipal drones who don't want to have to deal with the issue in the first place.


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## RSG (Mar 17, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> I remember the buffet cars Amtrak had on the Silvers in the 1970's or 1980's. I hated them! You walked along the buffet line to chose your food, luckily employees carried the plates to your table for you.
> 
> If you think it's hard to walk on the train, try standing in line and choosing your hot food while holding onto plates of that hot food!


Isn't this still the type of food service on the _Auto Train_? It seems that would be reason enough as to why it's not been expanded/exported to other trains.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 17, 2016)

me_little_me said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
> 
> 
> > I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.
> ...


In my experience traveling this big country.. I 100% disagree with you. Denny's, Ihop, and Waffle House are all 3 ridiculously inconsistent. Way more so than my experiences on Amtrak. (Which I fully admit are also inconsistent regarding service). Some of the higher end chains like a Long Horn or Outback provide something pretty consistent, but even the mid-level chains like Applebees and Ruby Tuesdays have their big ups and downs.

I'm not arguing with you, it could be you have had very consistent experiences at Denny's... but I know I haven't.


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## willem (Mar 18, 2016)

RSG said:


> Perhaps it's the result of growing up with parents who grew up in the Great Depression, but the idea of food waste bothers me to no end.


Yes. I recall a sign in an all-you-can-eat buffet. "Take all you want, but eat all you take." It made sense then and now.


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## Chey (Mar 18, 2016)

chakk said:


> While I would agree that the AGR points required for TWO people to travel LD in a sleeper may have increased substantially this year, I have found so far that ALL of my trips in a sleeper traveling alone have required FEWER points in the 2.0 system than they did in prior years.


Unfortunately the trip I'm thinking of taking is now 50% more points than it would have been before, Strangely, it is slightly less in dollars than a trip I recently took that was half the distance, but that's probably a function of the day I've picked to go.

As to the other complaints the original poster had, the only trouble I have sleeping is when the train makes a stop. It doesn't help that I have to sit up at that point and see what's going on, I just can't stand to miss anything,,, As far as the heavy meals, I can't tolerate a lot of carbs so I ask the DCA to leave off the potato or the hamburger bun or the chips. If they bring them, I don't eat them, as much as I hate to waste food. I bring my own breakfast of protein bars or jerky.

As has been said, train travel isn't for everyone. Neither is long distance car travel or airplane - that definitely describes me, which is why I take the train whenever possible.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> All of the new hires I've encountered lately on Amtrak seem to be very focused on customer service. So I think Amtrak is taking it serious... it's the old, grouchy LSA's they need to get rid of, as no amount of re-training could possibly help them. (in my opinion at least).


This matches my experience as well. Apparently the hiring managers got the memo about customer service being a priority. Hopefully the tide is turning on the operations side as well.



crescent-zephyr said:


> In my experience traveling this big country.. I 100% disagree with you. Denny's, Ihop, and Waffle House are all 3 ridiculously inconsistent. Way more so than my experiences on Amtrak. (Which I fully admit are also inconsistent regarding service). Some of the higher end chains like a Long Horn or Outback provide something pretty consistent, but even the mid-level chains like Applebees and Ruby Tuesdays have their big ups and downs. I'm not arguing with you, it could be you have had very consistent experiences at Denny's... but I know I haven't.


Perhaps it's a matter of once you find a good chain location it tends to be dependable for as long as the management remains intact, whereas on Amtrak every time you ride you're forced to play service roulette, even if it's the same route over and over again. On the other hand Amtrak menus are becoming so generic these days that it's starting to get tedious just to avoid eating the exact same meals over and over again, even with carefully timed schedules that seem to be setup to serve as few meals as possible. So I guess in that sense the food itself can be amazingly consistent.


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## benale (Mar 19, 2016)

The title of this thread is about the OP's last long distance trip. I have a great trip planned for next month. LAX to FTL in a roomette..actually ELP to FTL and coach from LAX to ELP. This will probably be my last LD trip in a sleeper for quite some time. Reason is because I got this trip on points using the old system. 20,000 points for a two zone roomette. I took the longest way possible. Under AGR 2.0 there is no way I can get enough points for another big trip. I relied on that 100 minimum to achieve points quickly. Being semi retired with limited funds, there is no way I can afford sleeper prices.

I've taken many cross country LD trips over the last twenty five years. Most of these trips were just to take the train. I've always considered the train to BE the vacation. My last several trips in sleepers was with my wife and I always ended up taking the upper bunk. I feel claustrophobic up there and last time I felt dizzy. It was not a pleasant experience. Another problem is having to use the bathroom. It is quite an ordeal just attempting to get up and go. This time around I'm going alone and I'll be quite content having my bottom bunk back and spending four nights in a roomette.

The train ride is always an adventure. If i don't sleep all through the night, thats fine. I love listening to the sound of the train,and the wonderful feeling of being in a moving hotel.I go to all the meals and I have no complaints about the comfort of the mattress. Being this will be my last big trip on points, I wanted to go out with a bang. I've always taken each trip with a great sense of adventure and whatever minor obstacle I encounter, I can always overcome it.

Yeah,this is my last long distance sleeper trip. Unlike the original poster, it's because of the devaluation of AGR, not because I'm unhappy with the service.


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## Manny T (Mar 19, 2016)

I have what is probably a peculiar reaction to the above post for someone on AU. I applaud Amtrak for AGR 2.0. I think we know that the U.S. passenger rail system is faltering. There are innumerable reasons for this, not a single cause by any means. No one person, nor one set of practices, is responsible for revenue not keeping pace with expenses. But when I read about people who "rely" on point minimums to amass points, and then when they "earn" an award "take the longest route possible," I think about the way Amtrak earns revenue and the way Amtrak loses revenue--and if AGR 2.0 makes it more likely that Amtrak will earn rather than lose in future, I'm all for it. That AGR's prior rules permitted x, y and z to happen is not the point; those days are over--that is the point.


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## WoodyinNYC (Mar 19, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> zepherdude said:
> 
> 
> > If this post here makes you feel good, so be it. Amtrak will just get others to replace you . . .
> ...


I'd list the monopoly status as almost the last of the problems.

Fundamentally, the problem is that Amtrak works for Congress, in much the same way Cinderella worked for her wicked step-mother.

Every aspect of the operations -- from the amount of advertising to the well-worn condition of the equipment fleet and even more so the acute shortage of equipment in any working condition to the several large gaps in the national system to the very bad State of Good Repair on the Northeast Corridor to once-a-day trains (never mind 3-per-week trains) where there need to be two frequencies ands on and on and on -- every aspect is harmed by the crippling lack of funding because of haters in Congress and often enuff haters in the various Presidential Administrations (the current one being the only exception to the rule).

C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?

No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.


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## RSG (Mar 20, 2016)

Manny T said:


> I have what is probably a peculiar reaction to the above post for someone on AU. I applaud Amtrak for AGR 2.0. I think we know that the U.S. passenger rail system is faltering. There are innumerable reasons for this, not a single cause by any means. No one person, nor one set of practices, is responsible for revenue not keeping pace with expenses. But when I read about people who "rely" on point minimums to amass points, and then when they "earn" an award "take the longest route possible," I think about the way Amtrak earns revenue and the way Amtrak loses revenue--and if AGR 2.0 makes it more likely that Amtrak will earn rather than lose in future, I'm all for it. That AGR's prior rules permitted x, y and z to happen is not the point; those days are over--that is the point.


I would generally agree with you. While I sympathize with _benale_ and others who use AGR points as their primary means of having a comfortable experience, I see them as simply a reward for existing travel (and maybe a few purchases). It's been quite awhile since anyone flew the airlines just to accumulate frequent flyer miles or used miles for anything other than to reduce a large ticket tab or get amenities which used to be free. So it is that the nation's passenger rail system should follow suit.


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## RSG (Mar 20, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.


That is a vast oversimplification of the issue. The biggest problem in the current way of doing business is that there are some operations--notably transportation--which function best on a five-to-ten year horizon. Yet, the US federal government has only done annual budgeting (and in recent years, no budget at all). My senior US Senator is attempting to have Congress go to biennial budgeting, much as my state legislature does. Though I suspect he will be dead before that actually occurs, at least it's a start. Presumably a five-year window for transportation planning (and thus, Amtrak funding) would be a little more realistic under a biennial system than planning for five years of operations and signing a reverse IOU each year after the first year.
A compounding issue is the lack of awareness of transportation issues not only among the general public but among congrescritters as well. I would bet that the average congressperson outside of the NEC and the few hot rail corridors (IL, MI, CA, etc) is even aware of the scope of Amtrak or why it exists and why it continues to exist. I've met fellow passengers who were unaware before their trip that the government essentially owns Amtrak. My junior US Senator loves to brag about how he only works in Washington but lives at home. In reality, he spends most of his time at airports (two in particular) and in airplanes and in vehicles driving to and from his 'home' airport (which is usually in another state). Amtrak, to him, is probably his view of what the short bus of transportation looks like. When referencing transportation options, the only two that most travelers mention are "fly or drive", yet this is as incomplete as contemplating chicken or fish for dinner (or chicken or beef, in my part of the country). That there may be a viable third option (aside from intercity bus) is akin to saying that people actually do win the large prizes in the state lotteries: it's rumored to exist, but no one they know actually has. When you have that level of unawareness of a method of travel which has existed for 40+ years, then any type of support for same--particularly financial--is going to be a tough sell.


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## caravanman (Mar 20, 2016)

It seems to me that we each have our diverse reasons for continuing to ride Amtrak, or giving up the trains... After a trip with duff staff, or a cold roomette, I wonder why I am doing it. A while later, l start to get itchy feet, and forgive the last upsets and set off again with fresh enjoyment of the rides ahead. Age is unkind, it makes life awkward, with top bunks, nocturnal bathroom visits, and dietary and mobility problems. If train rides are our hobby, a fun way to get around, then we try to overcome and tolerate these issues... There will come a point for most of us where either we, or Amtrak will have changed so much that we have to call a halt. How and why will be different for all, but each will be valid for ourselves.

I wish Benale all the very best for his last big AGR trip, enjoy that bottom bunk!

Presumably Amtrak got overall financial benefit from the old AGR system, they weren't just giving out "free trips" because one carried a credit card with their name on it ? As train ridership increases, and more seats/berths could be sold at the full price, it is understandable that they would cut back on the "perks", I guess. Anyway, we need to stop buying stuff we don't need, just to ride the trains, it is bad for the planet!

(I will just ignore the fumes from the diesel train locos being bad for the planet...  )

Ed.


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## NW cannonball (Mar 20, 2016)

caravanman said:


> It seems to me that we each have our diverse reasons for continuing to ride Amtrak, or giving up the trains... After a trip with duff staff, or a cold roomette, I wonder why I am doing it. A while later, l start to get itchy feet, and forgive the last upsets and set off again with fresh enjoyment of the rides ahead. Age is unkind, it makes life awkward, with top bunks, nocturnal bathroom visits, and dietary and mobility problems. If train rides are our hobby, a fun way to get around, then we try to overcome and tolerate these issues... There will come a point for most of us where either we, or Amtrak will have changed so much that we have to call a halt. How and why will be different for all, but each will be valid for ourselves.
> 
> I wish Benale all the very best for his last big AGR trip, enjoy that bottom bunk!
> 
> ...


Concur.

I don't ride Amtrak because of the "points". I ride because Amtrak gets me where I want to be at a reasonable price, and I get to see places, and meet people I otherwise never would have met. (some of those people are **oles, but most of us are **oles sometimes).

MSP to Pismo Beach, for example. Loved the ride, loved the destination, flying or driving or both would be outside my pay scale.

If this thread goes to "I coulda had a free trip from "A" to "B" and that's gone, damn Amtrak." Redirect to "Guest Rewards 'with a reference to "green stamps" and "Frequent Flyers" -- or maybe to /dev/null

Take it like it is -- Amtrak has a lot going for it, but it depends on where and when you go, and personal preference, and budget.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Mar 20, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?


And where do you suggest that four or five billion to come from? You know who's going to pay for it if it happens.


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## WoodyinNYC (Mar 20, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> WoodyinNYC said:
> 
> 
> > C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?
> ...


One less war in the Middle East would pay for a lousy $4 or $5 Billion within a month. You can figure out what to do with the rest of the money saved.

Or one less super duper aircraft carrier would cover 3 years of investment:



> Senator John McCain said huge cost overruns on a new class of aircraft carriers built by Huntington Ingalls Industries made it "one of the most spectacular acquisition debacles" in recent years, and the Navy needed different options for the future.
> 
> *The USS Gerald R. Ford, the first of three new nuclear-powered, city-sized aircraft carriers, is expected to cost $12.9 billion, *or $2.4 billion more than originally expected, McCain told a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee he chairs. The second ship, the USS John F. Kennedy, is $2.5 billion over budget at $11.5 billion, and five years behind schedule.
> 
> McCain blamed the problems on unrealistic plans and poor cost estimates, and said Congress and the Navy should examine a return to smaller, cheaper aircraft carriers that could attract new competitors.


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## Alexandria Nick (Mar 20, 2016)

RSG said:


> WoodyinNYC said:
> 
> 
> > No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.
> ...


Indeed, NASA also has the same complaint. The objectives, to say nothing of the actual money, practically change with every new Congress and president. How are you supposed to plan anything if you don't know what you'll be expected to do tomorrow? One commentator once said it was akin to the Navy having to ask for ships every year. Not new ships, mind you, ships in the first place.



WoodyinNYC said:


> Philly Amtrak Fan said:
> 
> 
> > WoodyinNYC said:
> ...


Doesn't work that way. That $13 billion for the USS Ford is spread over nine years. There's no $4 billion a year to use to cover something else because even the carrier isn't getting $4 billion a year.


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## neroden (Mar 20, 2016)

Yes, it DOES work that way. The Navy is being given ships it doesn't even WANT. There's a graveyard of brand new tanks for the Army which it doesn't want.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/9/lawmakers-force-pentagon-to-buy-tanks-keep-ships-a/?page=all

Even if the Navy does want the supercarriers... they're militarily useless! Garbage. Tens of billions of dollars in floating coffins. The Navy still thinks it's fighting the 1945 war.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-future-of-the-us-navy-2015-10

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-navy-s-big-mistake-building-tons-of-supercarriers-79cb42029b8#.2ec6bcs8j

Military history and strategy is a hobby of mine, which I don't usually talk about. The reason I don't usually talk about it is that it's obvious to any student of the field that the US has been bungling continuously since the 1950s -- and people don't want to hear about it.

The military budget is consuming roughly $1 trillion / year, and it seems to be completely wasted, since every military intervention the US has staged since the end of the Kosovo campaign has *worsened* our geopolitical position. It seems to me that the military isn't being operated for national defense -- it's being operated for some other purpose. Some combination of pork barrel spending and grifting by military contractors, perhaps.

$1 trillion per year is $1,000 billion per year. We could cut 1% off of it -- and the waste is obviously much larger than that -- and have $10 billion a year.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 20, 2016)

Let's compromise. We'll continue to fund the military, airlines and Amtrak. However, lets combine our efforts. Here's a look at our new Bomber fleet:







Military pilots will fly the plane, with first and second class passengers (now known as business class) in the plane. Third class passengers looking for a cheap rate will have to earn their keep. The price will be lower but they will man the Amfleet-2 and drop precision bombs out of the window of AM-2 door.

I think this will be my platform for office! Write in Thirdail7 on the ballot!


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## neroden (Mar 20, 2016)

Heh!

This is the US military:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-pentagon-literally-tossed-millions-of-dollars-into-the-trash-ce32489184a6#.bah8wjwh2

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pentagon-waste-specialreport-idUSBRE9AH0LQ20131118

From the Reuters report, it becomes clear that we could literally pull $5 billion a year out of the *accounting fraud* committed by the Pentagon.


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## Paul CHI (Mar 21, 2016)

As restaurant owners learn quickly, it takes very little to create a situation in which first time clients vow never to return. We talked friends into joining us for a first trip on the SWC from CHI to ABQ several years ago. We used roomettes; ours was fine, but they had a woman across the aisle who refused to close her door (wanted "air") and spent most of the trip yelling on her cell phone. We've suggested another trip, but the friends are absolutely not interested.

My wife and I took a Vancouver - Toronto trip on Via in January of 2014 and found it so far above Amtrak in all respects that we have not tried an Amtrak trip since then. Now that the nice memories are fading, we might try it again, but the comments above about inconsistent service definitely revive memories of previous Amtrak trips - primarily in the dining car for us. We tend to be self-sufficient in the roomette.


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## neroden (Mar 21, 2016)

Paul CHI said:


> As restaurant owners learn quickly, it takes very little to create a situation in which first time clients vow never to return.


True. It's particularly acute with restaurants, since there are always *so many* alternatives.

It cuts both ways on transportation. I've had multiple experiences on airlines which caused me to swear off US airline travel outside of genuine emergencies. I've also sworn off three different bus lines. Unlike those situations, Amtrak has never threatened my physical safety, so Amtrak wins my patronage.


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## Alexandria Nick (Mar 21, 2016)

neroden said:


> Yes, it DOES work that way. The Navy is being given ships it doesn't even WANT. There's a graveyard of brand new tanks for the Army which it doesn't want.
> 
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/9/lawmakers-force-pentagon-to-buy-tanks-keep-ships-a/?page=all
> 
> ...


I'm not arguing anything about the utility of a defense system. I'm talking about the straight budgeting of the system. All I'm saying is its not like they cut a check for $12 billion and put "aircraft carrier" down on the "for" line. You couldn't cancel the the Ford to get "three years" of $4 billion for _anything_ because the Ford doesn't have that money in the first place.

It requires a much more elaborate plan than just "Cancel X, Get Money for Y."


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## WoodyinNYC (Mar 21, 2016)

Alexandria Nick said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it DOES work that way. The Navy is being given ships it doesn't even WANT. There's a graveyard of brand new tanks for the Army which it doesn't want.
> ...


My plan will remain refreshingly simple. Start with the Pentagon Budget -- Obama is asking for $622 Billion, not counting Veterans' costs, foreign aid to foreign militaries, spooks, etc. -- and reduce it by $5 Billion a year. If the right people in power want it to be cut, it could be cut, and the money spent on trains.

That would mean CongressCritters would have to stop mandating the purchase of unneeded war materiel made in their home districts. So my plan might be impossible to execute.

But my plan does demonstrate that *there is plenty of money to be spent* on whatever citizens want it to be spent on. The public likes Amtrak . . . but sadly, a dark shadow falls between what the public wants and what the war profiteers want.


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## StriderGDM (Mar 21, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> Alexandria Nick said:
> 
> 
> > neroden said:
> ...


OMG WoodyinNYC do you want us all to die? Why do you hate America? We have to spend more than all other nations combined on defense lest something bad will happen to us! I mean the threat from terrorism is so great that last year more people were killed by toddlers with guns than terrorists!

How will we stop ISIS if we don't modernize our nuclear triad?

Honestly, while I agree with you, it's political suicide for politicians to try to reign in defense spending.

And neroden, I have to agere, we're making so many mistakes with our military planning. A key example is every time they try to kill the A-10, they find lo and behold that a low and slow, rugged, cheap tank killer works so much better than say a F-35. But damn the F-35 is sexier.

Want to look into how much money is being spent, I'd start with the F-35.


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## willem (Mar 21, 2016)

I'm something of a babe in the woods when it comes to politics, but I'll speculate that the rich people who contribute to campaigns own stock in companies that build guns and delivery systems rather than in companies that build railroad car components.


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## neroden (Mar 22, 2016)

Alexandria Nick said:


> All I'm saying is its not like they cut a check for $12 billion and put "aircraft carrier" down on the "for" line.


No, indeed, it's actually much worse than that. At the DOD they write checks and issue electronic transfers to various people. They then later go "Huh, we have no idea where that money went" (maybe it was simply stolen) and make up fake accounting entries called "plugs" -- which they then sign off on, knowing that they're committing fraud -- in order to get the Treasury to reimburse their account...Did you read the Reuters article? There's a reason they can't pass an audit. It's frankly outrageous that $1 trillion a year is being given to an organization which can't pass an audit and routinely engages in accounting fraud in order to get reimbursed. It's *crazy*.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 22, 2016)

neroden said:


> Alexandria Nick said:
> 
> 
> > All I'm saying is its not like they cut a check for $12 billion and put "aircraft carrier" down on the "for" line.
> ...


*^ LIKE ^*


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 22, 2016)

Give one of my early sings a listen, especially as sung by BONO of U-2:

It's called "Masters of War".


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## andersone (Mar 22, 2016)

And Uncle Ike Sang

"Beware the military industrial complex"

we never learned the second verse


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## tricia (Mar 22, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> That would mean CongressCritters would have to stop mandating the purchase of unneeded war materiel made in their home districts. So my plan might be impossible to execute.
> 
> But my plan does demonstrate that *there is plenty of money to be spent* on whatever citizens want it to be spent on. The public likes Amtrak . . . but sadly, a dark shadow falls between what the public wants and what the war profiteers want.


A modest proposal: Might manufacture and provision of Amtrak equipment and supplies be arranged to fall into as many Congressional districts as possible? To maximize the number of Congress members who have Amtrak-related contracts in their home districts.


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## willem (Mar 22, 2016)

tricia said:


> A modest proposal: Might manufacture and provision of Amtrak equipment and supplies be arranged to fall into as many Congressional districts as possible? To maximize the number of Congress members who have Amtrak-related contracts in their home districts.


I don't doubt that such a strategy would improve the chances of getting new equipment, but it would really surprise me if it did not result in higher prices.

It reminds me of the story of some weapons system (an aircraft, I believe) that one proponent said was invulnerable to enemy action. He meant enemies in the US, because every house district provided at least one component. No word on how it fared in war.

I recognize the advantage of having new equipment at a premium over what it should cost over having no new equipment at all.


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## JoeBas (Mar 22, 2016)

We just need to start making the argument that Amtrak is vital to National Defense, and get it rolled in under the Defense Department.

Troop Trains! Post-9/11 transport! Robust terror-proof infrastructure! Murica!!!


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## StriderGDM (Mar 22, 2016)

tricia said:


> WoodyinNYC said:
> 
> 
> > That would mean CongressCritters would have to stop mandating the purchase of unneeded war materiel made in their home districts. So my plan might be impossible to execute.
> ...


You realize this already happens and Amtrak makes a point in its reports to Congress of how many jobs it's responsible for in each district.

And it's really the only reason Amtrak survives. The NEC needs it, but the states there can't get the votes without supporting the LD network.

It's all politics.


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## andersone (Mar 22, 2016)

and all politics are local


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## Jen G (Apr 7, 2016)

benale said:


> The title of this thread is about the OP's last long distance trip. I have a great trip planned for next month. LAX to FTL in a roomette..actually ELP to FTL and coach from LAX to ELP. This will probably be my last LD trip in a sleeper for quite some time. Reason is because I got this trip on points using the old system. 20,000 points for a two zone roomette. I took the longest way possible. Under AGR 2.0 there is no way I can get enough points for another big trip. I relied on that 100 minimum to achieve points quickly. Being semi retired with limited funds, there is no way I can afford sleeper prices.
> 
> I've taken many cross country LD trips over the last twenty five years. Most of these trips were just to take the train. I've always considered the train to BE the vacation. My last several trips in sleepers was with my wife and I always ended up taking the upper bunk. I feel claustrophobic up there and last time I felt dizzy. It was not a pleasant experience. Another problem is having to use the bathroom. It is quite an ordeal just attempting to get up and go. This time around I'm going alone and I'll be quite content having my bottom bunk back and spending four nights in a roomette.
> 
> ...


Benale,

I have 2383 points currently...I wont be using them. Since I no longer have the guest rewards credit card, the points will eventually expire. I'm not sure I'm allowed to do this, but if you want the points, I'd be happy to gift them to you! It's not much but maybe all hope is not gone for another Amtrak trip for you and your wife!

Your post reminded me of how magical train travel is!

JenG

JenG


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## TylerP42 (Apr 7, 2016)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> Quote:
> 
> “the sleeper bunks are fairly uncomfortable ... also too short and narrow for me to stretch out”
> 
> ...


The beds are pretty big for me... Then again, I'm 5'4".


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## chakk (Apr 9, 2016)

Best train bed I've ever slept on by far was a section on VIA's Canadian.

Extra thick and much wider than Amtrak. Truly great for sleeping -- 4 nights from Vancouver to Toronto


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 9, 2016)

chakk said:


> Best train bed I've ever slept on by far was a section on VIA's Canadian.
> 
> Extra thick and much wider than Amtrak. Truly great for sleeping -- 4 nights from Vancouver to Toronto


This!


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## tricia (Apr 10, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > Best train bed I've ever slept on by far was a section on VIA's Canadian.
> ...


Yes! Even the upper berth of VIA's cabin for two is luxuriously comfortable.


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## Walt (Apr 10, 2016)

C855B said:


> But the second issue is likely the biggest one - the regimented dining car schedule, and the officious and surly DCA who enforces it. We don't eat three big meals a day on a strict timetable, and, being retired, we sure as hell don't get up at 6:00am just so we don't miss the breakfast service. By day two we feel bloated and lethargic, and no amount of walking the length of the train at service and crew-change stops mitigates it. Uncomfortable, again. I know we can't change the dining car management culture, but, rather, if the sleeping car passenger had the option of using their pre-paid meal allowance in the lounge car for lighter meals on their schedule, not the DCA's, I'm sure we would have a much more enjoyable experience. Or, offer discounted sleeping accommodations without meals (but that would break their system, too).


Sounds pretty similar to a cruise. You _try_ to eat three *big* meals a day, because, well, you paid for them in your fare. There are options, like having "room service" for breakfast, if getting up at 6:00am and going to the MDR, isn't your thing (to confess, I am a morning person even when on vacation). Of course, "room service" costs you the tip. If you skip breakfast completely (sleep in?), there is always self-serve coffee.

Cruises, at last use to, have regimented evening dinner times. There was a 6:00pm seating, or a 8:00pm seating, and if you're late with your request, you get one assigned to you.


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## loconut2b (Apr 10, 2016)

As an inexperienced Amtrak rider (previously only been on CONO from Memphis to NO several years ago), we are taking all these comments with a grain of salt. We do this because we know everybody's experiences are different as well as their expectations. We are traveling in the EB to Seattle from Chicago in June. We have a roomette (a first). While in Seattle we are going on a cruise to Alaska and then flying back home. While the cruise is something to look forward to, I am most excited about the train trip! We live in an area where there isn't any trains (closest depot for Amtrak is 2-3 hours away) so we are making this trip as part of our bucket list. We plan on eating in the diner car for all meals so we can have the experience. We won't care if we are full. We may stay up all night just wandering the train. We won't care if the beds are too hard. We are just going to enjoy the trip! As a previous poster said "the train trip is our vacation!" We are definitely getting some good information from this site. We will use some of the suggestions.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 10, 2016)

chakk said:


> Best train bed I've ever slept on by far was a section on VIA's Canadian.
> 
> Extra thick and much wider than Amtrak. Truly great for sleeping -- 4 nights from Vancouver to Toronto


Agreed. I've only had the narrow Roomette on VIA (same dimensions as Amtrak I believe) but that was by far the most comfortable. Even more than the Iowa Pacific Pullman Bedrooms!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 10, 2016)

loconut2b said:


> As an inexperienced Amtrak rider (previously only been on CONO from Memphis to NO several years ago), we are taking all these comments with a grain of salt. We do this because we know everybody's experiences are different as well as their expectations. We are traveling in the EB to Seattle from Chicago in June. We have a roomette (a first). While in Seattle we are going on a cruise to Alaska and then flying back home. While the cruise is something to look forward to, I am most excited about the train trip! We live in an area where there isn't any trains (closest depot for Amtrak is 2-3 hours away) so we are making this trip as part of our bucket list. We plan on eating in the diner car for all meals so we can have the experience. We won't care if we are full. We may stay up all night just wandering the train. We won't care if the beds are too hard. We are just going to enjoy the trip! As a previous poster said "the train trip is our vacation!" We are definitely getting some good information from this site. We will use some of the suggestions.


You haven't done much traveling on Amtrak, and you've already given them an A+ before the trip even started, so take your comments with a grain of salt?

Got it.


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## loconut2b (Apr 10, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> loconut2b said:
> 
> 
> > As an inexperienced Amtrak rider (previously only been on CONO from Memphis to NO several years ago), we are taking all these comments with a grain of salt. We do this because we know everybody's experiences are different as well as their expectations. We are traveling in the EB to Seattle from Chicago in June. We have a roomette (a first). While in Seattle we are going on a cruise to Alaska and then flying back home. While the cruise is something to look forward to, I am most excited about the train trip! We live in an area where there isn't any trains (closest depot for Amtrak is 2-3 hours away) so we are making this trip as part of our bucket list. We plan on eating in the diner car for all meals so we can have the experience. We won't care if we are full. We may stay up all night just wandering the train. We won't care if the beds are too hard. We are just going to enjoy the trip! As a previous poster said "the train trip is our vacation!" We are definitely getting some good information from this site. We will use some of the suggestions.
> ...


We haven't given any grade yet and I'm not sure where you got that idea. I think you missed the point of my post. I didn't say YOU take my comments with a grain of salt, I said WE. If this is the kind of response I can expect in this forum then I think I will not be back. Thanks a lot.


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## keelhauled (Apr 10, 2016)

loconut2b said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > loconut2b said:
> ...


You said you are going to enjoy the trip before stepping foot on the train. With Amtrak, disappointment is always a distinct possibility and it seems foolish to pronounce yourself satisfied without even having started the trip.


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## niemi24s (Apr 10, 2016)

Loconut2b has what is generally referred to as a positive attitude. Those afflicted with that malady are usually seen as cheerful and somewhat upbeat - as opposed to _some_ members of this forum who suffer from optical rectitis.


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## Alice (Apr 10, 2016)

keelhauled said:


> loconut2b said:
> 
> 
> > Devil said:
> ...


I'm with loconut2be. The "worst" trips are the most interesting. Why take the trip if you are planning to be miserable? The times I really wish I hadn't taken the train are because I'm traveling with someone who I wish would take their attitude someplace else. About that hard bed? I've slept on the Superliner H-room floor more than once because my travel companion was too weak to climb to the upper berth. Late trains? My first long-distance trip was a day-and-a-half late.


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## keelhauled (Apr 11, 2016)

Alice said:


> I'm with loconut2be. The "worst" trips are the most interesting. Why take the trip if you are planning to be miserable? The times I really wish I hadn't taken the train are because I'm traveling with someone who I wish would take their attitude someplace else. About that hard bed? I've slept on the Superliner H-room floor more than once because my travel companion was too weak to climb to the upper berth. Late trains? My first long-distance trip was a day-and-a-half late.


I never expect to be miserable anywhere, but sometimes it happens anyway. In fairness to Amtrak, I have also been miserable on planes, buses, and even my own truck, but just because other modes of transportation have failed me on occasion does not mean Amtrak gets a free pass.

It has been my experience that there are two fundamental types of Amtrak travelers--those who take the train because they need to go somewhere and those who take the train just because it's there. The expectations of the latter seem to be far lower than the former. I suppose if you're on a train for a joyride then an extra day and a half is just a better value for your money, but if you actually expected to get somewhere reliably it's an unmitigated disaster.

Amtrak is very rarely budget travel, so the acceptance of bad experiences as part of the adventure is baffling to me. I have been on trains where the heater wouldn't turn off and trains where it never turned on, trains that leaked water on the windowsill during every curve, trains that ran out of food, and trains with toilets that didn't work. And from what I've heard, I haven't even experienced the worst that Amtrak has to offer yet. The fact that people happily spend thousands of dollars on trips that are like as not to include some of these trials baffles me.

I don't mean to condemn Amtrak entirely, because in general they have served my needs well enough. And the vast majority of passengers I dare say are not on trains that the locomotive quits during or that see their promised sleeper car bad-ordered with no replacement. But the inconsistency in service is absolutely maddening and entirely within Amtrak's control, and I do not believe for a second that it should be excused as making the trip more of an adventure or exciting or interesting, as I have seen so many people say.


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## Alice (Apr 11, 2016)

I don't disagree with anything you said. Having a good time no matter how badly Amtrak performs is totally compatible with holding Amtrak responsible. Although I personally do not know how to hold them responsible other than phoning or writing later, or speaking up at the time if it is an issue that can be fixed right then.


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## RSG (Apr 11, 2016)

niemi24s said:


> [...] as opposed to _some_ members of this forum who suffer from optical rectitis.


And/or general misanthropy.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 11, 2016)

niemi24s said:


> Loconut2b has what is generally referred to as a positive attitude.


I thought it was referred to as blind hypocrisy. I shall take _your_ well traveled posts with a grain of salt but heaven forfend you treat _my_ naive lack of exposure with same attitude. :lol:



RSG said:


> niemi24s said:
> 
> 
> > [...] as opposed to _some_ members of this forum who suffer from optical rectitis.
> ...


Not all of humanity. Just one particularly disappointing tribe. -_-


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## Mystic River Dragon (Apr 11, 2016)

Loconut2b--I hope you're still here on the forum! Some of us are optimists, and there is always room for another one!  Plus, we hope you will write a travelogue/trip report for us so we know how it turns out!


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## Orangesaint (Apr 13, 2016)

I had the kind of experience on 49 (12) today that definitely would have me saying "never again" to Amtrak, due to poor service from the SCA (though saying poor service implies there was service to begin with, and there was not) and cleanliness issues. Fortunately, I have taken so many trips on the train that I know today was an exception. I won't get into it here, I'll save that for Customer Relations to hear; but sometimes it is best to forgive and forget, and hope for better.


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## Asher (Apr 14, 2016)

I'm still waiting for my first miserable trip. So fari don't have anything to snivel about.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 14, 2016)

anumberone said:


> I'm still waiting for my first miserable trip. So fari don't have anything to snivel about.


Have you had any disappointing trips or ever disembarked feeling the cost was unjustified? I've had a few doozies here and there but most of my trips work out fine. Between this forum and my personal experiences I already know about most of the potential pitfalls so there's not a lot that can surprise me anymore. That being said I have completed several trips that left me feeling my business wasn't respected or appreciated. I've also seen many new or infrequent travelers treated with indifference or even overt rudeness. I think a lot of the issues I have with Amtrak service levels could be improved by having customer service representatives riding on the trains themselves. The only time I've ever seen that sort of thing in action was the Coast Starlight. It honestly felt great to be able to give feedback directly to someone who cared enough to come looking for it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 14, 2016)

DA makes a very good point. I've had alot of "Good" to "Excellent" trips personally. But I know the system. If you travel enough to be Select each year (how do you Select Plus guys do it!? What's the secret?) you know the ropes. You know what's expected when you enter the diner, you know the lounge will be closed throughout the day, you know that you will have to sit with strangers even when their are plenty of empty tables, etc. etc. Generally once you learn all this.. the worst that can really happen is I have to put my own bed up in the morning if the SCA is missing in action. Or I have to eat at an inconvenient time because the LSA makes silly rules. Only once in recent years did the dining car staff make the meal so unpleasant that I dreaded going in for the last meal on the train. Usually... it's passable for me. Kinda like that "local" diner. You know the waitress is gonna be sassy... you know they have silly no cell phone rules, but it's just part of the experience. Us "regulars" at the diner can get used to it... but Amtrak is not a "local diner." They should have much higher standards, and better consistency.


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## ScouseAndy (Apr 15, 2016)

Human nature dicates that we are quicker to complain then to praise and will remember the bad experiences far more vidly than the good experiences.

If you have travelled thousands of miles on Amtrak then you will by the laws of averages had some bad experiences but you need to put it in to perspective.

As a one off trip on the basis of probability Loconut will have a good experience as these outweigh the bad experiences.

But if any one goes into a trip expecting a bad experience with an uncomfy beds with rude staff then you will have such a trip because your mindset is wrong and you will subconsciously be looking for and finding fault in everything simply to prove yourself right to yourself.


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## tricia (Apr 15, 2016)

ScouseAndy said:


> .... if any one goes into a trip expecting a bad experience with an uncomfy beds with rude staff then you will have such a trip because your mindset is wrong and you will subconsciously be looking for and finding fault in everything simply to prove yourself right to yourself.


Keeping an open mind and hoping for the best with staff is reasonable, but expecting anything but an "uncomfy bed" on Amtrak is just setting yourself up for disappointment. The staff isn't always surly; the beds are always less-than-comfy.


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## dlagrua (Apr 15, 2016)

I guess that this thread all comes down to the glass being half empty as opposed to being half full. We travel LD each year (this year to DEN again) and it can certainly be said that the sleeper and meal services can be better. Might be a true statement but we are dealing with an old, underfunded passenger rail service that rents track rights from the private railroads. In view of what Amtrak has to deal with; they are doing a credible job.

It is said that happiness and friendship is contagious, so we make it a point to be courteous to the on-board staff. Please, thank you and I'm sorry seem to go along way. Point is that if you extend the hand of friendship, it always comes back to you. About 90% of our encounters with Amtrak employees have been of a positive nature and that alone makes the trip tolerable and in most cases enjoyable.

As for the OP's comments on the new AGR system; I must agree that we were shortchanged on that deal.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 15, 2016)

tricia said:


> ScouseAndy said:
> 
> 
> > .... if any one goes into a trip expecting a bad experience with an uncomfy beds with rude staff then you will have such a trip because your mindset is wrong and you will subconsciously be looking for and finding fault in everything simply to prove yourself right to yourself.
> ...


For you maybe, and others, but the beds have been comfortable for me.If everyone didn't have different comfort levels, there wouldn't be so many mattresses out there to choose from and we wouldn't have sleep number beds.


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## rrdude (Apr 15, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> I guess that this thread all* comes down to the glass being half empty as opposed to being half full.* We travel LD each year (this year to DEN again) and it can certainly be said that the sleeper and meal services can be better. Might be a true statement but we are dealing with an old, underfunded passenger rail service that rents track rights from the private railroads. In view of what Amtrak has to deal with; they are doing a credible job.
> 
> It is said that happiness and friendship is contagious, so we make it a point to be courteous to the on-board staff. Please, thank you and I'm sorry seem to go along way. Point is that if you extend the hand of friendship, it always comes back to you. About 90% of our encounters with Amtrak employees have been of a positive nature and that alone makes the trip tolerable and in most cases enjoyable.
> 
> As for the OP's comments on the new AGR system; I must agree that we were shortchanged on that deal.


I don't think so. There is a proper way/method/style to provide premium service and products, and then there is everything below that. I guess if that's how you look at, fine, but if you took your car in to have a dent repaired, and they only fixed the dent, but didn't paint it to match the rest of the car, would you say, "Well, at least they fixed the dent?..." ) Glass Half Full.


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## erierail (Apr 15, 2016)

Its not just in sleepers that issue occur or with equipment or under funding. I was on the platform waiting on a later train in BWI, when an Acela train came to a stop. A very friendly first time passenger ask the trainmen a newbie type question . his answer was so off handed and rude, that the lady ask him three times to get a civil response she understood. That basic customer service and a training issue. Geez I thought I was boarding a Penn central train. Amtrak Has issues it can not control, but this was simple customer service on the best equipment and trackage they own. Simply no excuse. On the other hand the lounge attendant was outstanding. This is a people business, both passengers and employees, training and consistency is a must.


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## fillyjonk (Apr 15, 2016)

I had a miserable trip - during flooding about 10 years ago, I was bused from STL to MIN. 18 hours on a city bus (not even a motor coach, I guess things were too much of a cluster at that point for motor coaches). It was loud, cramped, and uncomfortable.

I was also on a train where there was damage that happened to the sleeper (minor derailment) and the sleeper pax were unceremoniously shifted to find what seating we could in the all-but-full coach (at 2 am).

So, it takes more than a grumpy SCA to make me "miserable."

That said: I wish Amtrak had more consistently-good service. I've had some wonderful SCAs down through the years (and let management know about them) and I've had some kind-of-blah ones (not bad enough to be worth letting management know about them). And I've had the classic rude-rushed dining car crew, but other times have had friendly gracious people. It would be nice to know what to expect and whether I will have to "pack my patience" or gird my loins to be a bit more assertive about getting what I need (e.g., getting help putting my bed down at night). I don't like being pushy but sometimes you have to be a little pushy with Amtrak.

Sometimes I find that being extra polite helps with service, other times it does not. The inconsistency is the problem.

The roommette beds are not that comfortable but in my opinion they're better than a coach seat where I can't stretch out properly and I'm too tall to curl up in it. And also I'm not getting elbowed by a seatmate or pushed-past by someone who needs a restroom every couple hours.


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## tim49424 (Apr 15, 2016)

anumberone said:


> I'm still waiting for my first miserable trip. So fari don't have anything to snivel about.



Same here.

I don't like being bused anywhere and I've had more than my share of bustitutions but I've never experienced any unprofessional service and all in all am 100% satisfied with my travel on Amtrak over the past 9 1/2 years and 40,000+ miles. I suppose I'm luckier than most.


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## erierail (Apr 18, 2016)

I feel the same way, I am not easily upset. I just wish the level of service was more consistent.

I try to treat every person I deal with in a respectful manner. How ever I don't think I need to go above and beyond to be treated correctly by any body in customer service field. Treating people right ( both as passenger and Amtrak rep ) can make even a bad Amtrak day better.


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