# Viewliner vs Superliner Roomettes



## BigRedEO (Aug 25, 2010)

I finally took my first cross country trip on Amtrak last December, Cleveland to L.A. on the Lakeshore Ltd connecting to the Zephyr. I've taken lots of trips out of Cleveland to Chicago, NYC and Washington, DC, but finally got to do my trip home to L.A. It was also my first time in a Superliner Roomette, versus a Viewliner Roomette. I have to say, I really didn't like it and had wished I'd gotten a Bedroom. Once the bed was down, I could not turn around in the approximately 1' x 2' space next to the berth, which made changing clothes VERY difficult to say the least (keep in mind I am 6' 2"). While having a toilet in the room is very nice on the Viewliner, it wasn't absolutely necessary to me. But I notice on the Amtrak website it claims that both Viewliner and Superliner Roomettes are 3' 6" wide. This is NOT possible since it also says the lower berths in both cars are 2' 4" wide. In the Viewliner, I have room to turn around when standing next to the berth, because the toilet is at least a foot and a 1/2 wide, while the Superliner had a MUCH narrower little shelf where the toilet would be in the Viewliner, which made for a much narrower space next to the berth. When I asked the SCA why there are no Viewliners on the Western routes, he said he thought it had to do with the tunnels, but the Viewliner is single level, whereas the Superliner is two levels, so how could that be?

Anyone else notice the difference in space? (perhaps I'll have to bring a tape measure when I take the SC home this year!)


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## Rail Freak (Aug 25, 2010)

I like having the window for the top bunk in the Viewliner!


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## BigRedEO (Aug 25, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> I like having the window for the top bunk in the Viewliner!


I remember someone telling me when he takes the Viewliner, he always sleeps in the top bunk because the view is a little better from up there and he likes to wake up and watch the world go by while still under the covers!


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 25, 2010)

I took a ride on the Silver Star back in 2007 in a viewliner roomette. While they are nice, I really hate having the toilet in the room, especially out in the open and next to your bed. So when it comes down to it I prefer superliner rooomettes.


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## hippyman (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm taking my first trip in a viewliner roomette, here in a few weeks. I've only had superliner bedrooms before, the roomettes on those just looked too small. How much larger are the viewliner rooms, in comparison?


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRed,

The difference is that the Viewliner beds taper at the foot end to clear the toilet, whereas the Superliner beds are 2'4" for their entire length. That taper gives you more room to manuver, both when changing and when climbing up to the upper bed. And since one needs less room for the legs & feet, than the upper body does, the taper works well.

And the reason that you don't find Viewliner on the Western trains is because Superliners will fit through those tunnels, but not on the east coast. So Amtrak needed to keep single level cars in use for the east coast trains. All other trains they went with Superliners to increase carrying capacity.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

hippyman said:


> I'm taking my first trip in a viewliner roomette, here in a few weeks. I've only had superliner bedrooms before, the roomettes on those just looked too small. How much larger are the viewliner rooms, in comparison?


The Viewliner roomette is the same length & width as the Superliner roomette. The only difference is that the Viewliner roomette is taller, ie. the ceiling is much higher. This gives the illusion that the room is bigger.


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## BigRedEO (Aug 25, 2010)

hippyman said:


> I'm taking my first trip in a viewliner roomette, here in a few weeks. I've only had superliner bedrooms before, the roomettes on those just looked too small. How much larger are the viewliner rooms, in comparison?


I like the Viewliner much more. You have more turnaround room. While the previous commenter mentioned having the toilet next to the berth, there is a nice heavy lid that completely covers it - very nice to have since I always have to go at least once during the night. You also have a nice big space to put your suitcase in a cubby up above - big enough to fit my duffel bag sized suitcase - no having to go downstairs to search for your luggage to get things out. And you have the extra windows on the upper berth. The higher ceilings and wider space makes all the difference. Oh, one other trick - if you're in the room alone, ask the attendant if you can also have the mattress from the one berth put on top of or under the other one before it's made up. Makes it even nicer!


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > I like having the window for the top bunk in the Viewliner!
> ...


That is indeed a nice perk.

However, when I'm traveling solo, the bigger reason that I prefer the upper bunk is that in the morning I climb down and then just push the upper bed up out of my way. Now my seats are already up and I have plenty of floor space to get dressed.

If I sleep down below, then either I have to toss the mattress up and reset the seats, or I struggle through changing and then get the attendant to do it.

It's just so much easier to grab that handle and push the bed up.


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## BigRedEO (Aug 25, 2010)

AlanB said:


> BigRed,
> 
> The difference is that the Viewliner beds taper at the foot end to clear the toilet, whereas the Superliner beds are 2'4" for their entire length. That taper gives you more room to manuver, both when changing and when climbing up to the upper bed. And since one needs less room for the legs & feet, than the upper body does, the taper works well.
> 
> And the reason that you don't find Viewliner on the Western trains is because Superliners will fit through those tunnels, but not on the east coast. So Amtrak needed to keep single level cars in use for the east coast trains. All other trains they went with Superliners to increase carrying capacity.


Now that you mention the taper, that probably explains it and I seem to remember that. If only they could do the same with the Superliners - put in toilets, add the taper and it will just seem so much roomier. Not being able to turn around made me feel a bit trapped.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > BigRed,
> ...


While it wouldn't happen to the existing Superliners, it's just too expensive to retrofit, there is no reason that they cannot build new Superliner's with that taper without regard to whether or not there is a toilet in the room.

And regarding that toilet, unless the plans have changed very recently, the new Viewliners that Amtrak just ordered will not have that toilet in the roomette. It's being eliminated. Therefore it's unlikely that any new Superliners that might be brought in the future will have a toilet in the roomette.


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## BigRedEO (Aug 25, 2010)

> While it wouldn't happen to the existing Superliners, it's just too expensive to retrofit, there is no reason that they cannot build new Superliner's with that taper without regard to whether or not there is a toilet in the room.
> 
> And regarding that toilet, unless the plans have changed very recently, the new Viewliners that Amtrak just ordered will not have that toilet in the roomette. It's being eliminated. Therefore it's unlikely that any new Superliners that might be brought in the future will have a toilet in the roomette.


Hmmm. Wonder if the taper will be gone along with the toilet?


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## jis (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > I like having the window for the top bunk in the Viewliner!
> ...


That remark resembles me


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> > While it wouldn't happen to the existing Superliners, it's just too expensive to retrofit, there is no reason that they cannot build new Superliner's with that taper without regard to whether or not there is a toilet in the room.
> >
> > And regarding that toilet, unless the plans have changed very recently, the new Viewliners that Amtrak just ordered will not have that toilet in the roomette. It's being eliminated. Therefore it's unlikely that any new Superliners that might be brought in the future will have a toilet in the roomette.
> 
> ...


AFAIK the taper will remain.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2010)

AlanB said:


> BigRedEO said:
> 
> 
> > > While it wouldn't happen to the existing Superliners, it's just too expensive to retrofit, there is no reason that they cannot build new Superliner's with that taper without regard to whether or not there is a toilet in the room.
> ...


I think the taper still needs to be there in order to allow larger cases to be placed in the storage cubby-hole over the corridor


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 25, 2010)

AlanB said:


> hippyman said:
> 
> 
> > I'm taking my first trip in a viewliner roomette, here in a few weeks. I've only had superliner bedrooms before, the roomettes on those just looked too small. How much larger are the viewliner rooms, in comparison?
> ...


I noticed that there are about 3 different closet arrangements in the Superliner roomette; no closet, closet space with no door (IIRC), and closet with door. I like the no closet best, gives a little more elbow room when sitting, and my carry on bag fits there better than with a closet.


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## colobok (Aug 25, 2010)

I have to say that both Viewliners and Superliners are bad design (I compare to European trains).

Who needs toilets in the Roommette? It's a stupid idea. Do you like sleeping with the toilet next to your head?

And the most important thing - instead of showers in the Bedroom they would better put 4 people in the Bedroom

like in European trains.

First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.

For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?

Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.

Do you really think somebody will buy 2 rooms to split the family and pay huge cost? Of course, people will prefer to drive or to fly.

If they did Bedrooms for 4 people instead of Bedrooms with showers - that would be a completely different story.

Plus they already have a public shower in Viewliner cars, so I don't understand why they are wasting space for 3 extra showers instead of extra passengers.


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## -Jamie- (Aug 25, 2010)

I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.

And on the topic of viewliner vs superliner, I'd also like to mention that in addition to the window, the upper bunks in the viewliners also have more head room. You can actually sit up and read or work on your computer. Something you can't do in the superliners.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 25, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.
> 
> And on the topic of viewliner vs superliner, I'd also like to mention that in addition to the window, the upper bunks in the viewliners also have more head room. You can actually sit up and read or work on your computer. Something you can't do in the superliners.



I'd need a helping hand to find my way down stairs in a Viewliner,LOL. No offense intended!


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## spacecadet (Aug 25, 2010)

colobok said:


> I have to say that both Viewliners and Superliners are bad design (I compare to European trains).


The European and US markets are different with regard to passenger expectations. I don't think just transplanting European style sleeping accommodations would work here. That doesn't mean Amtrak's sleeping cars are perfect either, though.

As for Viewliner vs. Superliner roomettes, I prefer the Viewliners just for the extra window and the height. I don't think I'd really want to travel with two people in a Superliner roomette, just because one person's going to get stuck with that top bunk that has no window and is right by the ceiling. Actually, traveling alone I once tried that bunk out just for the heck of it, and I didn't mind it so much, but that might have been only because I knew I could switch to the bottom bunk at any time. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I felt I *had* to sleep up there because the person I was with took the bottom bunk.

I do dislike the toilet in the Viewliner roomettes, though, now that I typically travel with my wife. I wouldn't mind it if I was by myself. (In fact, the slumbercoaches used to have this, and I liked not having to worry about a bathroom being occupied or somebody else having fouled it up if I needed to use it.) It's too bad there is not really a good compromise that Amtrak can come up with. I still feel they should bring back slumbercoaches, for true single-occupancy sleeper travel, and then they can have toilets in the rooms again.

Also, it's been a while since I rode in a Superliner roomette but I remember liking the decor better than the Viewliners. The Viewliner decor is *very* utilitarian, and plasticky. It's like a rolling hospital room. I remember Superliners as having some carpeted surfaces and faux-wood, which at least warmed things up a little bit even if it is fake.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

PetalumaLoco said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > hippyman said:
> ...


That was a closet with a broken door. There are only two variables, closet or no closet. And it's the Superliner I's that have the closet.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

colobok said:


> And the most important thing - instead of showers in the Bedroom they would better put 4 people in the Bedroom
> 
> like in European trains.


Taking out the shower wouldn't give you any more room. You'd have to take out the shower, toilet, & sink to gain enough room for 2 more beds, and then just barely. Additionally, it would then prevent you from opening the connecting door to the next room to create a Bedroom Suite.



colobok said:


> First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?
> 
> Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.
> 
> Do you really think somebody will buy 2 rooms to split the family and pay huge cost? Of course, people will prefer to drive or to fly.


It would only be marginally cheaper, as Amtrak would simply charge you more for a 4 bedded room, just like they do know with a family room.

In fact, there are times that it's actually cheaper to book 2 roomettes over a family room.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 25, 2010)

AlanB said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Thanks Alan, I was wondering if I was right about that one.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.


Currently in the Viewliner, there are in effect 14 roomettes. Roomettes 1 - 12 are sold to the public. Roomette #13 is given over to the shower and roomette #14 is the sleeping car attendants room.

Under the new design, the attendant will be moved to room #12, the shower remains in #13, and room #14 will be split in half to provide 2 public restrooms. There will only be 11 rooms available for sale to the public with this configuration.


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## -Jamie- (Aug 25, 2010)

Rail Freak said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.
> ...


I, of course, was refering to the lack of these items in the superliner roomette, forcing everyone to go downstairs to find restrooms.



AlanB said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.
> ...


Thanks Alan. I do fear with only 2 restrooms though, that lines might be a problem at times.


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Aug 25, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> I, of course, was refering to the lack of these items in the superliner roomette, forcing everyone to go downstairs to find restrooms.


There is a restroom upstairs


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## Big Iron (Aug 25, 2010)

Since Viewliner runs are shorter another configuration would be to leave the toilets in the rooms and convert the shower to a public restroom. Just me personally, I've only done East Coast runs in sleepers and have never used the shower in the VL's or SL's. A quick bird bath in the sink generally does the trick.

I rode the Slumbercaoches numerous times with my wife and liked the fact the car had a public restroom.

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.


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## colobok (Aug 25, 2010)

AlanB said:


> colobok said:
> 
> 
> > And the most important thing - instead of showers in the Bedroom they would better put 4 people in the Bedroom
> ...


Bedroom room is the same size as the standard room for 4 people in Europe so remove shower with sink and 4 people will perfectly fit.



AlanB said:


> colobok said:
> 
> 
> > First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?
> ...


Not really. 1 bedroom (not family bedroom!) is cheaper than 2 roommettes both in money and in AGR costs.

Plus I don't really want to split the family.

Family bedroom is so expensive because there is only 1 family bedroom on the train.


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## LA Resident (Aug 25, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> I finally took my first cross country trip on Amtrak last December, Cleveland to L.A. on the Lakeshore Ltd connecting to the Zephyr. I've taken lots of trips out of Cleveland to Chicago, NYC and Washington, DC, but finally got to do my trip home to L.A. It was also my first time in a Superliner Roomette, versus a Viewliner Roomette. I have to say, I really didn't like it and had wished I'd gotten a Bedroom. Once the bed was down, I could not turn around in the approximately 1' x 2' space next to the berth, which made changing clothes VERY difficult to say the least (keep in mind I am 6' 2"). While having a toilet in the room is very nice on the Viewliner, it wasn't absolutely necessary to me. But I notice on the Amtrak website it claims that both Viewliner and Superliner Roomettes are 3' 6" wide. This is NOT possible since it also says the lower berths in both cars are 2' 4" wide. In the Viewliner, I have room to turn around when standing next to the berth, because the toilet is at least a foot and a 1/2 wide, while the Superliner had a MUCH narrower little shelf where the toilet would be in the Viewliner, which made for a much narrower space next to the berth. When I asked the SCA why there are no Viewliners on the Western routes, he said he thought it had to do with the tunnels, but the Viewliner is single level, whereas the Superliner is two levels, so how could that be?
> 
> Anyone else notice the difference in space? (perhaps I'll have to bring a tape measure when I take the SC home this year!)


In a pre-Amtrak roomette, there was a sink and toilet. I remember them from many rides as a youngster on the Super Chief and the City of Los Angeles. You could use the sink any time. At night, the bed came out from one end of the room and fit over the toilet lid. If you needed to use the bathroom at night, you would have to raise the bed. Inconvenient, but still a better set-up perhaps than the present roomette with no sink and no toilet.

I suppose Amtrak eliminated both in the Superliner roomettes because it saved on a lot of plumbing work and allowed for more sellable spaces. But Pullman had the better idea, IMHO.


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## nferr (Aug 25, 2010)

IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.


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## MattW (Aug 25, 2010)

More plumbing means more points of failure. Having 4 toilets and sinks in the car has GOT to be easier to maintain than what? 12? 14?


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## spacecadet (Aug 25, 2010)

Big Iron said:


> The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.


That doesn't seem right, as the shower is an advertised feature of the sleeping car accommodations on trains that have them.

I do use the shower when I ride in Viewliners.


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > -Jamie- said:
> ...


In the Superliner currently there is a maximum of 7.75 people per bathroom; in the new Viewliner that will climb to 11.5 people per bathroom. Not great, but not horrible. Consider a Superliner coach where there are 18.75 or an Amfleet I coach where there are 35 people per bathroom.


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2010)

colobok said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > colobok said:
> ...


But again, if Amtrak were to design such a room as what you're describing, they won't keep the price the same. They're going to charge more for a room that can hold 4 people, if for no other reason than it will cost them more in food. They might not charge what a Bedroom Suite might cost, but I'm sure that it will be more than what they currently charge and probably more than 2 roomettes.

Regarding the family room, most trains have 2 and some have more. Get the first family room and it's often cheaper than 2 roomettes, and certainly cheaper than 2 Bedrooms.


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2010)

nferr said:


> IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.


I believe that Amtrak has had far more negative feed back from people not likely the un-enclosed toilet than they have had supporting the idea. Hence the reason for the change and reinventing the wheel. Amtrak is simply responding to what the majority of passengers are demanding.

Yes, it probably doesn't hurt either that they'll save some money on plumbing and cleaning too; but this is more about the negative reaction of far too many passengers to the un-enclosed toilet.

Even I have a mixed reaction, love it when I'm soloing, but hate it when my mom is riding with me.


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2010)

spacecadet said:


> Big Iron said:
> 
> 
> > The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.
> ...


It happens because too many passenger can't follow the luggage rules and bring foot locker sized luggage on board, instead of checking it. With limited space, the attendant's don't have many choice, it's pretty much either the shower or the vestibule. Neither is an ideal choice.

However, anytime I've ever found luggage in the shower, I simply let the attendant know that I would like to take a shower and they move it temporarily. Typically they'll put it in their own room for the time being, something not exactly fair to them either, but again the choices are limited.


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## -Jamie- (Aug 26, 2010)

NorthCoastHiawatha said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > I, of course, was refering to the lack of these items in the superliner roomette, forcing everyone to go downstairs to find restrooms.
> ...


Yes, but out of courtesy I never use that one if I know I'm going to be longer than a couple of minutes.


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## -Jamie- (Aug 26, 2010)

nferr said:


> IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.


I wouldn't mind the loss of toilet, but I agree with you on the sink issue for the same reason. If there's only 2 restrooms, I'm going to feel really bad hogging 1 of them for 15 minutes while I get ready in the morning.


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## daveyb99 (Aug 26, 2010)

Viewliners: Boo. Might seem a little larger, but ditch that toilet and the 'plastic wrap' feel. also too noisy.

Superliners: Yea. Might seem a little smaller, but are cozy and despite the worn look to the wall carpeting, far better than the plastic cocoon in the Viewliner.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 26, 2010)

While I have yet to ride in a Viewliner, it has never bothered me to leave my Superliner roomette and walk to either the middle of the car or downstairs to use the toilet. And I don't know if that is something I would want to do right in my "nesting area." Same for the shower, where I prefer one with some turning around room. Now a small sink in the Roomette I wouldn't mind.


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## Marina (Aug 26, 2010)

colobok said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > colobok said:
> ...


For Dec 24 Empire Builder

2 roommettes - $526

family room $1005

We will go with 2 roommettes, we have 2 boys, one will sleap with me, the other with my husband.

And i don't mind to separate them, will be less noise this way


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## alanh (Aug 26, 2010)

The main issue with a 4 person room is that unless a party of 4 is going to book it, the room will be underutilized or empty. Unlike European trains, I don't see Amtrak mixing parties in a single room.


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## spacecadet (Aug 26, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> While I have yet to ride in a Viewliner, it has never bothered me to leave my Superliner roomette and walk to either the middle of the car or downstairs to use the toilet. And I don't know if that is something I would want to do right in my "nesting area."


Just having a toilet there is not as big a deal as you'd think. I wouldn't want a full size regular toilet right next to me either. But the ones in the Viewliners are small and very well disguised and they are "enclosed"; not with walls but it's like they're contained within what's basically a separate box built into the wall. You don't actually feel like you're sitting right next to a toilet unless you have the cover open.

It's just using it that's a problem if you have two people in the room.


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 26, 2010)

We have ridden all the western trains with Superliners and the Crescent with the Viewliner sleepers. Even with the advantages mentioned regarding window on the upper bunk and the storage space for luggage above the aisle area, we both agreed that the toilet in the room is a negative.

With sometimes four bathrooms available on the Superliner sleepers, there has never been a time when we had to wait to use the facilities. 

The shower is nice to have next to the bathrooms downstairs on the Superliners. The shower on the Viewliners is more convenient but a bit less private when people are marching by all the time passing between the cars. 

In the case of the Crescent, if you are traveling from NOL to NYP as we were, I would hate to not have access to a shower. I agree that some of the shorter Eastern trains may not need shower facilities, but the Star trains and Crescent sure need them. 

Overall, we look forward to riding in the new Viewliners without the toilets. Just will need to time those "quiet session breaks" a little better


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## A.J. (Aug 26, 2010)

I have always found the Viewliner roommettes to be a lot noisier, which is not great when you're trying to sleep. I pretty much stopped taking the LSL to Chicago because of it. I don't want to start a cross-country trip with a lack of sleep and the crankiness that goes with it. Am I the only one who finds it noisier? Or is it that that route is a rougher ride?


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## Gord (Aug 26, 2010)

-Jamie- said:


> I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.
> 
> And on the topic of viewliner vs superliner, I'd also like to mention that in addition to the window, the upper bunks in the viewliners also have more head room. You can actually sit up and read or work on your computer. Something you can't do in the superliners.


I agree, I prefer the Viewliner roomette, with toilet. Very convenient, especially when travelling alone. I don't like Superliner roomettes at all and neither does my wife. They remind me of the old upper and lower berths but with a sliding door instead of curtains.

Gord


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## Big Iron (Aug 26, 2010)

AlanB said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > Big Iron said:
> ...


Now that all of the LD trains have baggage cars what would be the problems with the SCA "gate checking" extra luggage that will not fit in a room to the bag car after a pax has baorded? It seems to work with the airlines.


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## me_little_me (Aug 26, 2010)

colobok said:


> For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?
> 
> Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.


In the olden days (the days of wooden trains and iron men), we took our two kids on overnight trips to Los Angeles from both Albuquerque and El Paso as well as from Albuquerque to Chicago.

She and I fit in the lower berth and the kids went in the upper. Yup! We could both fit - a little tight but we did it.

These days there is no way! Too much standing on subway trains made me a little short and a LOT wider.


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2010)

Big Iron said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > spacecadet said:
> ...


AFAIK, Amtrak has never offered that option. And on a Superliner equiped train, it's probably not necessary. I'm not sure why it's not an option for the single level trains, other than perhaps the need for having all the possible tags available and the idea of not wanting multiple people handling baggage in the car. That said, it is not uncommon for the attendant in the sleeper closest to the baggage car to just slip larger bags just inside the baggage car's door.


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## BillyJo (Aug 26, 2010)

I just got back home today from a trip on the LSL and CZ from NY to San Francisco (trip report to follow in more detail - in short, it was GREAT).

We took roomettes the entire way, so I can give a comparison on the differences between the two types of rooms. There were four of us: my wife and I, plus my teenaged sister-in-law and wanna-be teen daughter. We managed to book rooms across from one another on both legs. This was the SIL's first long-distance trip, but the rest of us had been in roomettes before on the CL.

Before we left, and as we were booking the train, I was really worried about having the toilet in the room, since I thought it would stink and the room would be, um, messy. Overall, though, I think I enjoyed the viewliner more than the superliner for the reasons others mentioned:

-Window in the top bunk

-Room to move around when the beds were down

-Ability to sit up in the top bunk, and ease of getting to the top bunk

-That large cubby hole in the top to house larger bags.

The shower facilities were much better on the CZ, but I don't think there is a big demand for it on the LSL... I didn't really notice the noise being much different in either car, and I didn't notice the decour in the viewliner. Since it didn't make an impression, I don't think either was that bad.

As for the bathroom, it was nowhere near as bad as I expected. We generally just left the room while the other person was using it. The sink was nice, although the way the water came out made it so a lot of water ended up on the rim of the sink, which could cause a problem with draining. I started this trip thinking that superliner roomettes were vastly superior to the viewliners. Having ridden in both, I'd have to give a slight edge to the Viewliner, although I'm not sure how much I would have liked being in there for a trip as long as some of those Chicago-west coast hauls.


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## PaulM (Aug 27, 2010)

spacecadet said:


> The European and US markets are different with regard to passenger expectations. I don't think just transplanting European style sleeping accommodations would work here.


Sounds like you are talking about couchettes, which are like a bunk house, not sleeping cars.


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## spacecadet (Aug 27, 2010)

PaulM said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > The European and US markets are different with regard to passenger expectations. I don't think just transplanting European style sleeping accommodations would work here.
> ...


No, I was talking about what the original poster that I was answering was talking about. I didn't feel I needed to go into a lot of detail because to me it's self-evident that different markets and cultures have different requirements. But others did go into detail after my post, and covered all of the main points.


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## CHANGEATJAMAICA (Aug 27, 2010)

Caveat: When traveling alone I book a roomette. When traveling with the bride of some 46 years (and counting) we book a bedroom. That said: I prefer a Viewliner roomette to a Superliner. I prefer to sleep in the upper and there is beau coup vertical room between the mattress and the ceiling in the Viewliner. In a Superliner I get claustophobic. And I enjoy having the toilet in the Viewliner roomette. For those who don't want the toilet next to their faces may I suggest sleeping with your feet at that end of the lower berth.

As to the bedroom on Viewliner vs Superliner; the drawback of the Supeliner is the same as that noted in the roomette; i.e. limited vertical room in the upper berth between the mattress and the ceiling. Trying to get to and then down the ladder with very little vertical room to maneuver for this septagenarian is difficult. The positive side of the Superliner over the Viewliner in both categories is the luggage space downstairs.

And as some wise sage once intoned: That's one man's opinion.

Best regards,

Rodger


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## hello (Aug 27, 2010)

BillyJo, thank you for the comparisons of the 2 roomettes on your recent trip.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2010)

CHANGEATJAMAICA said:


> And I enjoy having the toilet in the Viewliner roomette. For those who don't want the toilet next to their faces may I suggest sleeping with your feet at that end of the lower berth.


Actually the bed is tapered at the toilet end such that only your feet actually comfortably fit at that end of the bed. The beds are always made/setup with the head at the far end from the toilet.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2010)

AlanB said:


> CHANGEATJAMAICA said:
> 
> 
> > And I enjoy having the toilet in the Viewliner roomette. For those who don't want the toilet next to their faces may I suggest sleeping with your feet at that end of the lower berth.
> ...


Alan is correct about the Viewliner roomettes but if you are bothered by the toliet sleeping up top is even better, it actually has more room and with the windows it's like your own mini-lounge! Im pretty sure the new Viewliners wont have the toliets but the sinks are nice IMO!!


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## colobok (Aug 27, 2010)

Marina said:


> colobok said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


Price will be different on any different date, depending on how many rooms are sold, so you can't simply compare.

Sometimes roommettes are more expensive than bedrooms!

If you compare AGR costs - family bedroom is 20000 points, 2 roommettes - 30000 points (50% more!).


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## the_traveler (Aug 27, 2010)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > CHANGEATJAMAICA said:
> ...


The above 2 posters answered it exactly correct. The sheets on the (pre-made) mattress *ALWAYS* are made with the open end of the sheet/blanket *AWAY* from the toilet. The only ways that you could have your head next to the toilet is if you take off all the sheets and blankets and then remake the bed, or if you sleep on top of the blankets with your head next to the toilet!


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## guest etiquette (Aug 27, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


To do so sounds like you'd have to be pretty dumb or out-of-it, almost as if you had your head up your...well, let's not go there! hboy:


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## Chatter163 (Aug 28, 2010)

I STRONGLY prefer having the toilets in the roomettes. I take a roomette when traveling alone, and a bedroom when with my wife. Therefore I appreciate it when I need the bathroom for more than a moment; there is no issue with trying to rush because someone else is waiting. I am amazed by comments about having the toilet next to one's head; they seem to be made by people who do not frequent the Viewliners, because as has been pointed out, one really does not even notice that it is there, with the heavy boxtop lid on it, and the bed is made up the opposite way. I find that most people unfamiliar with the roomette accomodations do not even immediately realize that there is a toilet under there. I always travel with air freshener spray and Lysol wipes, anyway.

As for oversized bags, I wish the bags could be gate-checked, as people should not be so thoughtless about that issue. However, other than service stops and points of origin, most station stops simply are not long enough to facilitate that sort of unexpected activity. Then there is the issue of luggage tags marking the luggage's destination, and being placed in the correct location to ensure that the luggage is unloaded where it should be.


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## dlagrua (Aug 29, 2010)

We normally travel in a bedroom on the overnight LD runs. My wife is 6' tall and I'm 5'11" so we are not small people and enjoy the extra space. If we could not find a bedroom our preference would be the Viewliner Roomette for the higher ceiling, extra baggage space, the convenince of a sink and toilet (especially for those middle of the night piddle breaks!) and for the windows for the person in the top bunk. If I were traveling alone I would definitely go in a roomette but thats never the issue. My wife loves to ride the trains and is as against air travel as I am. I won't get into why as thats outlined very passionately in another thread-LOL.


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## teresa_a (Aug 29, 2010)

I am new to train travel and have yet to take my first trip.

In another thread I was asking tons of questions about accommodations and somehow the

subject of toilets came up; roomettes or bedroom.

THEN I happened to read some posts of dirty hall toilets: one of the genders is not that neat....just a fact.

And I see that most of the posters in favor of hall toilets and roomettes with a 'bedside commode' are men.

Women of a certain age like myself want a bedroom with a separate area for a toilet I would dare to say.

I must confess it gives me the shudders to think of sleeping next to a toilet(covered though it may be) or being locked in

such a small area with a covered pot looking me in the face for hours while reading a book or munching a small carry-on snack at the table next to the thing?. ( Just think of the floor area or area next to the bunk near the toilet from previous travelers...a mopping isn't all that thorough)

Would YOU take a box of popcorn or cheez-its into a stall in the movies and feel comfortable eating next to a toilet even if you were the first user for the day? Not too many women would, I dare say.

In considering my first long Amtrak trip I would definitely go for a Bedroom with an enclosed shower/toilet area .

My conclusion from reading this forum in general?: Roomettes are a 'GUY THING'.

(don't shoot .....JMO)

For those like me yet to choose and book the trip: watch these 2 videos by travelers in their rooms.

Roomette


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## NETrainfan (Sep 12, 2010)

This is a very helpful thread. We will be in a Viewliner roomette for the first time soon and appreciate all of the comparisons and opinions.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Sep 12, 2010)

I prefer the Viewliner design over the Superliner. I always end up in the top bunk, which is quite tight for me at 6' 2" and 200 pounds. The Viewliner gives me more space and I can still look out the window


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## retired teacher (Sep 12, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> I finally took my first cross country trip on Amtrak last December, Cleveland to L.A. on the Lakeshore Ltd connecting to the Zephyr. I've taken lots of trips out of Cleveland to Chicago, NYC and Washington, DC, but finally got to do my trip home to L.A. It was also my first time in a Superliner Roomette, versus a Viewliner Roomette. I have to say, I really didn't like it and had wished I'd gotten a Bedroom. Once the bed was down, I could not turn around in the approximately 1' x 2' space next to the berth, which made changing clothes VERY difficult to say the least (keep in mind I am 6' 2"). While having a toilet in the room is very nice on the Viewliner, it wasn't absolutely necessary to me. But I notice on the Amtrak website it claims that both Viewliner and Superliner Roomettes are 3' 6" wide. This is NOT possible since it also says the lower berths in both cars are 2' 4" wide. In the Viewliner, I have room to turn around when standing next to the berth, because the toilet is at least a foot and a 1/2 wide, while the Superliner had a MUCH narrower little shelf where the toilet would be in the Viewliner, which made for a much narrower space next to the berth. When I asked the SCA why there are no Viewliners on the Western routes, he said he thought it had to do with the tunnels, but the Viewliner is single level, whereas the Superliner is two levels, so how could that be?
> 
> Anyone else notice the difference in space? (perhaps I'll have to bring a tape measure when I take the SC home this year!)


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## retired teacher (Sep 12, 2010)

Hello,

I am taking the LSL and SWC cross country to SanDiego later this month. I had to get a roomette on both trains. I to find the roomette very very uncomfortable and when the bed is down you are right there is no room to change. I have been deperately trying to get a room on the Southwest Chief for my Sept. 28th trip from Chicago but they say they are all booked and I am next to be called for one.

It doesn't seem to promising. I would rather just sit in the coach seat, but my wife wants a room. For the money the roomette is in my opinion not worth it, except meals are included.


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## NETrainfan (Sep 12, 2010)

We will be taking the same trains in a few months. Look forward to your review.

What is your opinion of the seating in the roomettes?



retired teacher said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am taking the LSL and SWC cross country to SanDiego later this month. I had to get a roomette on both trains. I to find the roomette very very uncomfortable and when the bed is down you are right there is no room to change. I have been deperately trying to get a room on the Southwest Chief for my Sept. 28th trip from Chicago but they say they are all booked and I am next to be called for one.
> 
> It doesn't seem to promising. I would rather just sit in the coach seat, but my wife wants a room. For the money the roomette is in my opinion not worth it, except meals are included.


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## BillyJo (Sep 12, 2010)

Long Train Runnin said:


> I prefer the Viewliner design over the Superliner. I always end up in the top bunk, which is quite tight for me at 6' 2" and 200 pounds. The Viewliner gives me more space and I can still look out the window


I'm 5'7", 150 and had a tough time getting in to the upper bunk in the Superliner roomette! Once I was able to lay down, it was fine, but it was quite strange getting stuck trying to get in to bed. Plenty of room in the viewliner top bunk, though.


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## dlagrua (Sep 12, 2010)

Although we always travel in bedrooms, I would prefer the Viewliner roomette over the Superliner Rommette. Viewliner sleepers are noiser though as they are closer to the tracks than the Superliner bedrooms are. On the Superliner you sleep on the second story that is farther from the wheels and tracks so there is less noise.

As for the reason for the Viewliners; they cannot run Superliners on the Eastern routes as the height would not clear the overhead gantry power cables that run the electric locomotives on the NE corridor. However, NJT and MARC are running double decker commuter cars on it but I believe that the lower level on these cars runs very close to the tracks to provide more clearance for the upper level. Its a good question on how they can run one double decker passenger car design while not being able to run the other.


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## Ryan (Sep 12, 2010)

How is it "a good question" when you answered it in the previous sentence?

Superliner height:16'2"

MARC K-car height: 15'6.5"


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## MattW (Sep 12, 2010)

Just for the record, they do run Superliners under wire at least a bit. The Capitol Limited uses Superliner equipment and I think all revenue tracks at WAS are under wire. Which begs the question though, do the Superliners fit under neath the Capitol (1st street) tunnels, or do cars coming from the Autotrain have to take a different route to Ivy City, or do they even go to Ivy City?


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## Ryan (Sep 12, 2010)

Not all revenue tracks are under the wire (7-9 are unpowered, I think), but the tracks that the Cap usually uses (16 departing and low 20's arriving) are under the wire. I'm pretty sure that Superliners will fit through the 1st street tunnel, but they won't fit through Baltimore.


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## jis (Sep 12, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Not all revenue tracks are under the wire (7-9 are unpowered, I think), but the tracks that the Cap usually uses (16 departing and low 20's arriving) are under the wire. I'm pretty sure that Superliners will fit through the 1st street tunnel, but they won't fit through Baltimore.


Yes, Supers fit through 1st St. Tunnel. The Cardinal in Superliner form used to run through there. Wire gantries have nothing to do with Superliners not being able to run on NEC. It is a popular railfan urban legend. Indeed even double stacks and triple auto racks can run under the wire in some parts of NEC. Nominally, lacking other vertical restrictions, NEC catenary is at 21' above rail, which is high enough to clear Plate H and Plate K. The problem areas are Baltimore tunnels New York tunnels and a few other stations like Philadelphia, Newark, and a few overpasses say in Trenton for example.

The NJT and LIRR multi-levels are much less tall compared to Superliners. Superliners are around 16'. The LIRR and NJT ones are 14'6". The lower level in all of them is at about the same height above rails. Incidentally Plate H and Plate K are around 20'.


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## TVRM610 (Sep 12, 2010)

Regardless of weather the toilets should or should not be in the roomettes, I firmly believe the Viewliner cars need a public restroom, if i wake up in the middle of the night and I'm traveling with ANYONE, I'm not going to use the restroom in the room. ha. When your in the FIRST sleeper on the LSL or the Silver Meteor and you must walk out of your car, through 2 more sleepers, through the diner, then through the lounge into the first coach (which always has occupied restrooms due to Murphy) in the middle of the night, you begin to think "maybe coach would have been a good idea" - joking of course. But I've had to that... and it's not fun. So i'm all for a public restroom in the new design!


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## AlanB (Sep 12, 2010)

MattW said:


> Which begs the question though, do the Superliners fit under neath the Capitol (1st street) tunnels, or do cars coming from the Autotrain have to take a different route to Ivy City, or do they even go to Ivy City?


Auto Train cars are serviced in Sanford, which can handle most tasks. They never go to Ivy City. If Sanford can't handle something, then the car goes to Beech Grove. That might mean that the car sits in Ivy City awaiting the Cardinal, but otherwise that's it. In fact, Sanford can do things that Ivy City can't when it comes to the Superliners.


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## dlagrua (Sep 13, 2010)

I would not worry about the small well covered toilet in the Viewliner. Toilets have been in roomettes, slumbercoaches and duplex sleepers since the 1940's. If you need to go in the middle of the night you will appreciate the convenience. Most of the time its just for a piddle so its no big deal even if your wife or husband are in there with you. I would assume that your spouse has seen you in the buff before so if they get a peak you won't die from it. Most of the time they will be sleeping anyway and their head will be on the other side of the roomette. If you are very modest and your partner is awake just ask them to pull the covers over their head for a moment. Now if your event has a smell associated with it, then that's vacate time.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Sep 13, 2010)

BillyJo said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer the Viewliner design over the Superliner. I always end up in the top bunk, which is quite tight for me at 6' 2" and 200 pounds. The Viewliner gives me more space and I can still look out the window
> ...


Its a lot easier to get in if you take down the safety net. Then when you get settled you can reattach it.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 14, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Although we always travel in bedrooms, I would prefer the Viewliner roomette over the Superliner Rommette. Viewliner sleepers are noiser though as they are closer to the tracks than the Superliner bedrooms are. On the Superliner you sleep on the second story that is farther from the wheels and tracks so there is less noise.
> 
> As for the reason for the Viewliners; they cannot run Superliners on the Eastern routes as the height would not clear the overhead gantry power cables that run the electric locomotives on the NE corridor. However, NJT and MARC are running double decker commuter cars on it but I believe that the lower level on these cars runs very close to the tracks to provide more clearance for the upper level. Its a good question on how they can run one double decker passenger car design while not being able to run the other.


Interestingly, I find the noise on the Viewliners somehow comforting and it puts me to sleep faster!!


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