# 120V Outlets



## SarahZ (Nov 30, 2013)

So, I notice the outlets say "Razor Only". I have no idea what my flat iron's voltage is.

Am I going to destroy the train in my quest to tame my hair, or will it be okay? (It's just a flat iron, not a hair dryer combo.)


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## the_traveler (Nov 30, 2013)

As long as the amperage is not excessive, it should be OK. Remember, those cars were built 30+ years ago. If built today, it might say, "Cell Phones & Laptops Only"!


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## PRR 60 (Nov 30, 2013)

I think the intent of the "razor only" notice is to warn against the use high wattage appliances like hair dryers. An electric razor pulls 100 Watts or so (about 1 Amp), and that is about what a laptop charger pulls. A hair dryer can pull 1600 Watts (14 Amps). A flat iron, about 1200 Watts (10 Amps), is closer to a hair dryer than a razor. You probably would be OK if you are the only one using a high Wattage appliance like a flat iron, but if a car had several plugged in at once, it might trip a circuit breaker.


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## gmushial (Nov 30, 2013)

Sarah - I think somebody posted a couple months ago - might be able to find the thread via search - that the limit per outlet was either 60 or 100 watts... and as the_traveler posted - the outlet doesn't know nor care what the load actually is, as long as the load is within what it can handle, so be it.


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## SarahZ (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks, everyone.

PRR - that's helpful. I'll just forgo it for now. I'm not vain enough to risk it.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 30, 2013)

Don't film any Pepsi commercials, you'll regret it.


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## chakk (Dec 1, 2013)

Definitely don't want to be plugging hair dryers or flat irons into outlets labelled "razors only". Same goes for those metal rods that boil water in tea cups. In case the circuit breaker is faulty, the wiring probably does not have the ampacity to safely pull that 10 amps plus of electrical current, so it could become a fire hazard.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2013)

chakk said:


> Definitely don't want to be plugging hair dryers or flat irons into outlets labelled "razors only". Same goes for those metal rods that boil water in tea cups. In case the circuit breaker is faulty, the wiring probably does not have the ampacity to safely pull that 10 amps plus of electrical current, so it could become a fire hazard.


Agreed.

Please do not plug in any heated hair care devices into any onboard outlet. Seriously.

In some cars, which I believe includes the refurbished SL1 series, they specifically include heating irons in the warning message just in case it's not absolutely clear. After having suffered through multiple long distance travels with no in-room electricity I'm very sensitive to other passengers being careless with what they plug in.

Best case you flip a breaker or blow a fuse and eventually power is restored later in the trip. Medium case the breaker box or wiring gets fried and nobody has power until the car is cycled out of the fleet for maintenance weeks or months later. Worst case the high wattage device shorts out something critical near something flammable and there goes another million dollar's worth of passenger car.

It's just not worth in my view.

If you want to know what will work in an Amtrak outlet here's a easy rule of thumb.

If a given device can run on batteries alone (such as a laptop, phone, GPS, scanner, portable DVD player, etc) then by all means plug it into Amtrak's power outlets. If a device always requires 120v power to operate (desktop computers, heaters, hair care device, electric teapots etc.) then do not plug it in while riding the train.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Please do not plug in any heated hair care devices into any onboard outlet. Seriously.


I regularly dry my hair after taking a shower. Yea, nowadays, I only have to run it for a minutes or two.

And I don't remember any "razor only" label on the sink outlet in my Viewliner roomette. Does anyone have a pic of such, to prove such a label actually exists?


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## SarahZ (Dec 1, 2013)

Guest said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > Please do not plug in any heated hair care devices into any onboard outlet. Seriously.
> ...


I took this 30 seconds ago. I'm in a Superliner.






Sorry it's flipped. I'll fix it at some point. It's vertical in my phone's storage, so... /shrug


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## benjibear (Dec 1, 2013)

I just looked at my wife's flat iron and it is only 35 watts. That is nowhere near her hair dryer which is 1500 watts. If your flat iron is in the same range under a 100 watts, you shouldn't have any problem. Look at your iron and it should be marked somewhere what the wattage is.

Now if there is an issue with an overload, the circuit breaker should trip. Anything more major than that, the car should be fixed because it is a safety issue.


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## SANSR (Dec 1, 2013)

Darn it. I was going to bring my combination Ronco toaster oven-coffee percolator-egg scrambler All-In One Breakfast Device on my next trip. Guess I had better rethink that plan..........


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2013)

Guest said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Please do not plug in any heated hair care devices into any onboard outlet. Seriously.
> ...


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## buddy559 (Dec 1, 2013)

Will an iPad charger fit the outlet?


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2013)

buddy559 said:


> Will an iPad charger fit the outlet?


In my experience it will.

However, after running into problems with other adapters I would suggest always carrying a travel sized NA/JP spec outlet strip with you.





Monster MP OTG400 BK Outlets To Go Outlet Travel Power Strip (Black)


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## Peter KG6LSE (Dec 1, 2013)

Ikea has a Very nice 2 USD short strip that is Ideal as a break out for 3 devices and it has a 8 inch cord .

Infact EVERY LD trip I took for many years I leave one with the LSA as a ( pass it on ) gift to the crew ........ Granted now that the cafe has a outlet bar near the seats not just the never used Wet bar ......... I dont do this any more ........


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## roomette (Dec 1, 2013)

SANSR said:


> Darn it. I was going to bring my combination Ronco toaster oven-coffee percolator-egg scrambler All-In One Breakfast Device on my next trip. Guess I had better rethink that plan..........


And a comedy career. :giggle:


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## Peter KG6LSE (Dec 1, 2013)

As I am watching Ron White !

Per NEC NFPA . the breaker is sized to protect the wires and the outlet .

I want to know the wire size . 12 GA can easy handle 15 Amps .

So Really unless they are running 20 Gauge speaker wire I don't see a Huge issue per NEC with a few hundred watts ....... IF and this is a IF they Follow the LAW . the NEC does weed its way in to many 120V places . So keep that in mind

No EE worth there salt would use less then 14Ga or so wire from a physical strength stand point . and 14 Ga can do 10 A

or 1200 W ((( 120V * 10A))) . the issue is like in a house the entire SIDE of a upper deck superlner may be on a 15A breaker ..

so LIke in a college dorm . If every one runs a hair dryer and a heater you are gonna pop the breaker .

Peter


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## Trainmans daughter (Dec 2, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> buddy559 said:
> 
> 
> > Will an iPad charger fit the outlet?
> ...


Thanks for posting this, Devil. I clicked on the link and one click later had purchased it. It arrives Wednesday so I'll have it for my trip in 3 weeks.


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## benjibear (Dec 2, 2013)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> As I am watching Ron White !
> 
> Per NEC NFPA . the breaker is sized to protect the wires and the outlet .
> 
> ...



#14 is good for 15A

#12 is good for 20A

Of course this assumes the length of the circuit and the load do not cause voltage drop issues. Recomended practice is 5% voltage drop from service to utilization equipment with branch circuits being 3% and feeders being 2%.

I am not sure if railroads need to follow the NEC. The NEC is a prescriptive based code and even the building codes have language for performance based standards under engineering supervision. Amtrak or rail car builders may look at it this way to design things that the NEC was never really written for.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Devil's Advocate said:
> ...


OK, that must be the best proof you have of such. So I guess the truth is no, there is no such restriction on the Viewliner outlets. And your claim of such on every outlet, is therefore wrong.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2013)

Calm down princess. I mainly ride the Superliner fleet with the occasional Amfleet or Acela trip. I've never set foot in a Boxliner so feel free to plug whatever you want into those cars.


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## the_traveler (Dec 2, 2013)

Trainmans daughter said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > buddy559 said:
> ...


For the times the plug is not "extended out" far enough to make a connection for the plug, I just went to the hardware store and bought a 1/2" to 1" extension plug for less than $1 that I carry with me.


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## gmushial (Dec 2, 2013)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> As I am watching Ron White !
> 
> Per NEC NFPA . the breaker is sized to protect the wires and the outlet .
> 
> ...





benjibear said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > As I am watching Ron White !
> ...


Though the operative point being: one is sharing the circuit with several/multiple others, ie, if two people plug in their 1500w irons, then the breaker for the circuit opens and everyone on that circuit is without. Now, if one is sharing the circuit with only oneself, then clearly what one can plug in is limited by the circuit/wiring/breaker.


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## fredevad (Dec 2, 2013)

Personally, I have a 6 foot extension cord I keep for Roomette travel which I plug in and run in between the window and the center table as soon as I move in. That way I have multiple outlets that are easily accessible by both myself and any traveling companion.


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## SarahZ (Dec 2, 2013)

Guest said:


> OK, that must be the best proof you have of such. So I guess the truth is no, there is no such restriction on the Viewliner outlets. And your claim of such on every outlet, is therefore wrong.


Just because they may not say "Razor Only" does not mean the outlets are not 120V. I just checked the specifications on several websites, and they all confirm it.

I found some images, and you can see there's some writing under the outlet, but they aren't clear enough to read. It may say "120 volts"; it may not. The fact remains, they are 120 volt outlets, and you really shouldn't use a hair dryer.

For what it's worth, I didn't use my flat iron on the train, but I did check it when I got to the hotel. It's pretty high, which is probably why it heats up so quickly. So, I'm glad I listened to everyone when I posted the thread a couple days ago.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Dec 2, 2013)

gmushial said:


> Though the operative point being: one is sharing the circuit with several/multiple others, ie, if two people plug in their 1500w irons, then the breaker for the circuit opens and everyone on that circuit is without. Now, if one is sharing the circuit with only oneself, then clearly what one can plug in is limited by the circuit/wiring/breaker.


THIS IS what I was getting at ...........



benjibear said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > As I am watching Ron White !
> ...


Notice I did not put down the exact amp rating as I dont know if trains are THHN or what temp they are in Ect.

I Over rated the wire a ( Over built ) ( under stated teh max current ) due to this ..

The point is .a razor can be ran on darn near 24Ga wire Unless some one was Really trying to save weight I ll bet its at the VERY least 16 Ga in that train ......

I My self no matter How low the current use at the least 16 GA in all motive apps to reduce physical stress on the wire and its parts .

Best way to Know the real awnser is

FInd the size breaker . and then the size wire and its type and figure out the rest .

IMO If I was building a train with Low amp rated outets I would have GFIs in the bathroom and have some push to reset breaker some where ON that one outlet behind a panel with a train Key semi hidden

The same PUsh to reset thermal breakaer as in a normal surge strip .

at the very least its a Local trip and woud not effect the other outlets on the bathroom circuit .

Peter


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## gmushial (Dec 2, 2013)

<snip>

Peter

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OT but BTW: on the CZ one of the things that I did notice in the bathrooms was: GFI outlets


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## X (Dec 2, 2013)

The NEC does not apply.

The convience outlets are generally split between two or three 15 or 20A breakers.

All convience outlets are GFCI protected.

There are also cleaning outlets, these are lower to the floor and on their own breaker(s).

Exane is the wire of choice.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Dec 2, 2013)

I know the NEC does not apply but It is a good guide to follow as its got some years behind it .( some days I HATE HATE HATE it )

and thank you for the 15A -20A

so assuming the guest is right ......

have at it ladys and gents ... Fire up your small devices and If you want to use a larger one check with your neighbors to see what they are powering .

One neat toy for handy power draw is the KILL O WATTS meter ...... every person needs one .

it can do Power factor too and that is VERY handy with non resistive loads .


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## rickycourtney (Dec 14, 2013)

So here's the definitive answer from Amtrak...

I was in a refurbished Superliner I sleeping car last week. When they installed the new panels by the headrests the "no razors" warning was replaced with "no hair dryer or curling iron".


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## SarahZ (Dec 14, 2013)

When I was in a hotel last weekend, I noticed the outlets in the bedroom said "household items only", and then the bathroom had a surge-protected outlet (or whatever it's called) like the one we have in our bathroom at home.


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## Ispolkom (Dec 14, 2013)

rickycourtney said:


> So here's the definitive answer from Amtrak...
> 
> I was in a refurbished Superliner I sleeping car last week. When they installed the new panels by the headrests the "no razors" warning was replaced with "no hair dryer or curling iron".
> 
> ...


So that means *SarahZ*'s flat iron is OK?

(ducks)

ETA: I had no idea that flat iron now connotes a hair-straightening implement, rather than an item for smoothing wrinkles from clothes. Of course this comes with having flat hair to begin with (and increasing little of it).


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## gmushial (Dec 14, 2013)

Ispolkom said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> > So here's the definitive answer from Amtrak...
> ...


Makes two of us... I guess time moves on: Didn't realize that a flat iron required electricity... still don't understand how for 150 years they thought they were using them without... maybe they were bought in the anticipation of getting electricity in the future... though don't know where or how they'd plug in... ;-) x100

Flat Iron =


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