# March 2022 Greyhound cuts



## Willbridge (Feb 23, 2022)

From their website today...

*Effective March 1, 2022*

Please be advised that effective March 1st, Greyhound will discontinue trips 4692 and 4691 that operate between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, PA. This will reduce frequency from 2 trips per day to 1 trip per day on this route.

Affected locations: Greensburg, Latrobe, Johnstown, Ebensburg, Altoona, Tyrone, State College, and Lewistown

Please be advised that effective March 1st, Greyhound will discontinue trips 7955 and 7956 that operate between Philadelphia and Scranton, PA. This will reduce frequency from 2 trips per day to 1 trip per day on this route.

Affected locations: Doylestown, Allentown, Easton, Stroudsburg, Mt Pocono.

*
Effective March 9, 2022 *

Service between Mobile, AL and Birmingham, AL (schedule numbers *9700*, *9701*, *9707 *and *9708*) are discontinued.
Service between Birmingham, AL and Chattanooga, TN (schedule numbers *9705* and *0705*) are discontinued.
Service between Birmingham, AL and Florence, SC will be modified. We will no longer stop in the following locations: Abbeville, Alexandria, Andalusia, Childersburg, Cullman/Good Hope, Creola, Demopolis North, Enterprise, Falkville, Ft. Payne, Grove Hill, Jackson, Mt Vernon, Pell City, Thomasville.
Service will also be reduced to Birmingham, Dothan, Tuscaloosa, Evergreen and Mobile.
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## daybeers (Feb 23, 2022)

Sad!! Thanks for posting @Willbridge, where'd you find it on the Greyhound website?


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## Willbridge (Feb 23, 2022)

daybeers said:


> Sad!! Thanks for posting @Willbridge, where'd you find it on the Greyhound website?


It's a little orange tab on the right side of the PC screen below the "Search" button. I usually catch these by checking the bulletins to station personnel but decided to look at the snowstorm. It's "Travel Alerts" and the snowstorm disruptions were in there, but so were the cutbacks.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 25, 2022)

This may deserve a separate thread - do we need an "AmBus" in this country to preserve what little is left of our intercity bus operations? 

I know there are places where intercity bus operators seem to be holding on, such as Concord Coach in my own state of Maine, although I don't know how well things are for them after the effects of the COVID shutdowns and loss of business travel.


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## NorthShore (Feb 26, 2022)

And, with Megabus having abandoned almost everything out of Chicago, it's starting to seem like you can't get ANYWHERE anymore, over the road, sans car.


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## Willbridge (Feb 26, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> And, with Megabus having abandoned almost everything out of Chicago, it's starting to seem like you can't get ANYWHERE anymore, over the road, sans car.


Flixbus has started up out of Chicago, operating from 355 S Canal St.


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## NorthShore (Feb 26, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> Flixbus has started up out of Chicago, operating from 355 S Canal St.



One route: St. Paul. Same as Mega now, which used to have Chicago as a significant hub of frequent operations to many cities. So much that Greyhound sent a representative out, daily, to count their competitor's passengers.


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## Willbridge (Feb 26, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> One route: St. Paul. Same as Mega now, which used to have Chicago as a significant hub of frequent operations to many cities. So much that Greyhound sent a representative out, daily, to count their competitor's passengers.


Flixbus is building up. They're showing Chicago <> Columbus via Indianapolis, too. One characteristic that can be annoying is that they often start a route with no midweek service. That's the case with Chicago <> Columbus.

It'll be interesting to watch this and Amtrak regional routes in light of higher gas prices.


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## NorthShore (Feb 26, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> Flixbus is building up. They're showing Chicago <> Columbus via Indianapolis, too. One characteristic that can be annoying is that they often start a route with no midweek service. That's the case with Chicago <> Columbus.
> 
> It'll be interesting to watch this and Amtrak regional routes in light of higher gas prices.



I'd like to see them center service around college towns, where they'll find plenty of students commuting from Chicago.


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## slasher-fun (Feb 27, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> It's a little orange tab on the right side of the PC screen below the "Search" button. I usually catch these by checking the bulletins to station personnel but decided to look at the snowstorm. It's "Travel Alerts" and the snowstorm disruptions were in there, but so were the cutbacks.


It's easier to look at Greyhound Lines Inc. - System Timetable


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## Willbridge (Feb 27, 2022)

slasher-fun said:


> It's easier to look at Greyhound Lines Inc. - System Timetable


I agree and as I wrote, that's usually what I do. However, the bulletins to employees are not always inclusive. There is evidence that they're done in a rush at times.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 28, 2022)

I was rethinking my AmBus idea and perhaps a better approach would be for the government to subsidize important runs where Greyhound or other operators are losing money and want to abandon - similar to the concept of Essential Air Services for airlines.


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## jebr (Feb 28, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I was rethinking my AmBus idea and perhaps a better approach would be for the government to subsidize important runs where Greyhound or other operators are losing money and want to abandon - similar to the concept of Essential Air Services for airlines.



The 5311(f) Intercity Bus Program does some of this already. There's a slideshow from the Federal Transit Administration linked here, and some details from MnDOT here (it's a federal program, but the MnDOT result comes up right after the FTA one for me, presumably because I'm in MN.)


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## jiml (Feb 28, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I was rethinking my AmBus idea and perhaps a better approach would be for the government to subsidize important runs where Greyhound or other operators are losing money and want to abandon - similar to the concept of Essential Air Services for airlines.


Canada tried this, but it didn't stop Greyhound from closing up shop - just delayed it by a few years. The focus has shifted to regional carriers rather than a country-wide network.


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## jebr (Feb 28, 2022)

jiml said:


> Canada tried this, but it didn't stop Greyhound from closing up shop - just delayed it by a few years. The focus has shifted to regional carriers rather than a country-wide network.



I think the best place for government's role, outside of supporting certain routes, is to provide a standard platform for searching, booking, and making connections between bus schedules and services. That seems to exist to some extent in the US with the NABT, but it doesn't appear that there's an equivalent currently in Canada. Having that system, along with fare settlement across agencies, standard booking policies (including luggage and refundability rules,) and guaranteed connections with some sort of standard protection would be helpful in tying together what's often disparate bus networks.


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## Willbridge (Feb 28, 2022)

jebr said:


> I think the best place for government's role, outside of supporting certain routes, is to provide a standard platform for searching, booking, and making connections between bus schedules and services. That seems to exist to some extent in the US with the NABT, but it doesn't appear that there's an equivalent currently in Canada. Having that system, along with fare settlement across agencies, standard booking policies (including luggage and refundability rules,) and guaranteed connections with some sort of standard protection would be helpful in tying together what's often disparate bus networks.


Canada, as is often the case, looks like the U.S. in some situations, but followed a different path. Its bus traffic associations, which worked to establish standards and coordinate services were divided into western and Ontario and Quebec and Eastern organizations. My copy of the Aug 74 _Official Bus Guide _shows that it achieved that status with the Western Canadian Bus Traffic Association in 1935, five years after the U.S. National Bus Traffic Association endorsed the Guide. 

In the November 1943 Guide, Greyhound Lines of Canada did not exist. Its predecessors were listed: B.C. Greyhound Lines, Toronto Greyhound Lines (subsidiary of U.S. Central Greyhound Lines) and Western Canadian Greyhound Lines (Calgary subsidiary of Greyhound Lines). As the bus industry depended on the governments building highways, there was no transcontinental bus route.

Eventually, with Greyhound Lines of Canada consolidated and having become a "branch plant" of the U.S. firm, the U.S. National Bus Traffic Association served the Canadian carriers.

1a03-01-09(sec-dq).pdf (greyhound.com)

Today, of course, Canada is back to the pre-GLC era of Balkanized regional networks.

Given deregulation, only government could establish a nationwide booking system due to the churning of carriers. At present the two U.S. networks are Amtrak's website and Greyhound's website. If the VIA Rail of 1981 was still around, it could have done the same for Canada.


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## west point (Mar 1, 2022)

Thruway services subsidized by FTA funds has any possibilities. A big one would be SE Chief Connecting at Albuquerque - Amarillo - Connecting back to the SW Chief at maybe Newton. That way many new passengers could connect to and from the SW chief. 

However, there is another possibility. The bus could go to Oklahoma City, pick up any northbound passengers off the Heartland Flyer, then to Newton. Once Heartland Flyer extends to Newton then thruway can stop at OKC and then Heartland to / from Newton.

Only problem would be those few days of ice and snow on highway.
EDIT: Many days 2 or more thruways would be needed.


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## Willbridge (Mar 1, 2022)

One point to keep in mind regarding the current federal 5311f funding is that it is rigged to favor Greyhound connections. As I understand it, there's nothing wrong with making Amtrak connections, also, but not without Greyhound.


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## NES28 (Mar 1, 2022)

A few points to note:

- Flixbus bought Greyhound a few months ago, for a bargain price. They have chosen to keep the brands separate.

- While there's no Ambus, many states are subsidizing intercity bus routes using Federal FTA-funding, including some of Greyhound's. Most try to stay in the background but some have adopted state branding: Colorado Bustang and Virginia Breeze.

- California, which has a huge Amtrak Thruway bus operation, has removed the requirement for usage to be linked to thru trips with rail on most routes. 

- DePaul University's Chaddick Center monitors the intercity bus industry, publishing insightful reports and holding interesting web meetings every few months; the next one is set for April 14. Their reports highlight interesting industry trends. A major one currently is for first class bus service, generally with 2+1 seating and often with snacks and beverages (no subsidies are involved in these!).


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## jebr (Mar 1, 2022)

NES28 said:


> - Flixbus bought Greyhound a few months ago, for a bargain price. They have chosen to keep the brands separate.



Have they "officially" said that they don't intend to merge the brands? I've seen basically no press since the initial announcement, where in the FAQ they basically say "for now" the brands are separate. I don't interpret their current inaction in merging the brands as an indication that they don't intend to in the next couple of years - even just traveling with Greyhound it seems as though there's a _lot_ of manual processes still involved and a fair amount of "we've always done it this way why change" even if that way differs from station to station.


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## Willbridge (Mar 2, 2022)

jebr said:


> even if that way differs from station to station.



A big problem is that the Greyhound model since the 1930's and regulation is to have stations and to make connections in them. Now in places like Portland, Oregon, Greyhound is without a station. At Stanfield, Oregon (the Hinkle of intercity bus networks) the connections take place on the edge of a truck stop with no curb. Flix in the U.S. is a curbside operator, although in Europe they don't seem to have a problem with using municipal bus terminals. (Berlin's overburdened muni terminal below.)







My theory is that the new owners are trying to figure out what to do. While some sectors of society have a negative reaction to the Greyhound brand there are others who think of them immediately. When the immigrant flood hit Deming, NM they were selling out departures at demand-based pricing higher than Amtrak's between the same points. All the difference was the Greyhound brand and a local commissioned agent.


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