# Amtrak in Florida



## JWM (Jul 25, 2022)

Ok, I am thinking positive and Brightline will be profitable and grow. Amtrak could learn from Brightline. Customer service, equipment, catering, etc. A rational reorganization of Amtrak Florida service would add the long ago discontinued "Silver Comet" (yes, I know it went to Birmingham under SAL over fifty years ago) to St. Petersburg via Tampa using the former SAL tracks from Tampa over to Pinellas County. The "Silver Star" could be spilt at Jacksonville with the Florida west coast section as above and the east coast down to Miami on the FEC. The "Silver Meteor" would be a NYP-MIA train only and the "cream of the crop" also down the FEC to Miami. Brightline would eventually take care of the cross Florida traffic. Dreaming? Yes, perhaps, but I think it would certainly work.


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## joelkfla (Jul 25, 2022)

JWM said:


> Ok, I am thinking positive and Brightline will be profitable and grow. Amtrak could learn from Brightline. Customer service, equipment, catering, etc. A rational reorganization of Amtrak Florida service would add the long ago discontinued "Silver Comet" (yes, I know it went to Birmingham under SAL over fifty years ago) to St. Petersburg via Tampa using the former SAL tracks from Tampa over to Pinellas County. The "Silver Star" could be spilt at Jacksonville with the Florida west coast section as above and the east coast down to Miami on the FEC. The "Silver Meteor" would be a NYP-MIA train only and the "cream of the crop" also down the FEC to Miami. Brightline would eventually take care of the cross Florida traffic. Dreaming? Yes, perhaps, but I think it would certainly work.


So you think Orlando, which served the highest number (19%) of non-Auto Train passengers in 2019, should be abandoned by Amtrak? (And that percentage doesn't include the other 2 Orlando metro area stations: Kissimmee & Winter Park.)


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## Qapla (Jul 25, 2022)

I guess if we are going to call Amtrak "Welfare Transportation" - we should extend that term to the Interstate Highway System ... since it is free to drive on it.

As for Brightline and/or Amtrak expanding further north in Florida - why not add a daily Jacksonville/Tallahassee train - as long as there is a way to turn a train in Tallahassee (There is in JAX)


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## JWM (Jul 25, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> So you think Orlando, which served the highest number (19%) of non-Auto Train passengers in 2019, should be abandoned by Amtrak? (And that percentage doesn't include the other 2 Orlando metro area stations: Kissimmee & Winter Park.)
> 
> View attachment 28974





joelkfla said:


> So you think Orlando, which served the highest number (19%) of non-Auto Train passengers in 2019, should be abandoned by Amtrak? (And that percentage doesn't include the other 2 Orlando metro area stations: Kissimmee & Winter Park.)
> 
> View attachment 28974


Ok, should have clarified. The Gulf Coast portion split at Jacksonville should go via Orlando, of course. I am not discounting the passenger potential for that route nor the attraction of Orlando. In my plan they would get to long distance trains a day each way to New York. The "Star" and the "Comet".


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## joelkfla (Jul 25, 2022)

JWM said:


> Ok, should have clarified. The Gulf Coast portion split at Jacksonville should go via Orlando, of course. I am not discounting the passenger potential for that route nor the attraction of Orlando. In my plan they would get to long distance trains a day each way to New York. The "Star" and the "Comet".


Oh, when you said Seaboard, I thought you were advocating for the line through Waldo & Ocala.


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## Qapla (Jul 25, 2022)

There's nothing wrong with both the Star and the Meteor going through Orlando, even if a third train (Comet) also served Orlando. It would be nice if one of the Silvers (Star or Meteor) would go through Ocala/Waldo on the way to JAX instead of both going through PAK.

I know, contract restrictions/agreements are in place that don't allow this - but it would be nice if those restrictions could be removed. After all, the tracks are still there (unlike the track through Gainesville) since the Silvers and the Auto Train were diverted to that route after the AT derailment a couple years ago.


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## jiml (Jul 26, 2022)

What really shocked me reading the ridership numbers above is where Tampa ranked with only one train in 2019. You'd think they would look at sending a separate section of the Meteor there when it resumes.


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## jis (Jul 26, 2022)

FDOT is actually in very preliminary exploratory talks with Amtrak regarding two intra Florida service akin to the Silver Palm v1.0. Essentially a MIA-JAX service via Tampa or some variation of that theme. This is using FRA funding to start it up and then gradually take the funding over as stipulated in the Infrastructure Bill.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 26, 2022)

I'm finding the Tampa and Orlando ridership numbers quite interesting - is there dominance in the numbers due to Miami area ridership due to that region having multiple stations?


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## west point (Jul 26, 2022)

yes I have observed a large number of passengers off and on at Orlando for south Florida. The reports about Tampa is that Star has more passengers off and on to south Florida. If Brightline ever gets to Tampa they will get a lot of passengers to south Florida especially cruise passengers as Star does not meet cruise ships. It leaves Mia before arrivals of cruis and arrives Mia after cruise departures.


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## Siegmund (Jul 26, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I'm finding the Tampa and Orlando ridership numbers quite interesting - is there dominance in the numbers due to Miami area ridership due to that region having multiple stations?


I think a good part of that is caused by the Tampa backtrack rather than having two sections: service to Miami is 3+ hours slower than it should be, and has created a sizable incentive for passengers to/from southern FL to get off in the Orlando area rather than waiting, and probably driven away whatever Miami-Jacksonville local traffic there once was.


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## Amtrak709 (Jul 26, 2022)

Three offhand comments from a former Florida resident (I lived there for 34 years before moving back to Georgia):

1. The Silver Comet was a SAL New York-Richmond-Atlanta-Birmingham train and should be remembered that way. It should never go to Florida. Bring back The Silver Palm if you have to.
2. The Silver Meteor had for several decades two sections--one to Miami and one to Tampa--and was, I believe, very a successful operation in that incarnation. It had that very interesting (and probably very expensive) split and make-up in Auburndale FL which I drove to many days just to watch.
3. Some of these new wished-for changes have about as much chance in my lifetime (admittedly I am 74) as Amtrak operating south from Jacksonville to Miami on the FEC; or a train from Atlanta to Florida. Of course I said that once about a train NOL-JAX-MIA and was proven wrong--at least for a little while.

Again, just an offhand observation and totally in my opinion.


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## NES28 (Jul 26, 2022)

The FRA analysis is based on building an entirely new railroad for most of the distance on routes that can be operated at a profit. My analysis is that this would be something in excess of 6000 route miles nationwide. This is nothing like the 24,000 plus miles that China has built to date.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 26, 2022)

NES28 said:


> The FRA analysis is based on building an entirely new railroad for most of the distance on routes that can be operated at a profit. My analysis is that this would be something in excess of 6000 route miles nationwide. This is nothing like the 24,000 plus miles that China has built to date.


Despite being a larger nation size wise, China's huge population probably requires that. 

My take on the route from Chicago to the SE is it would be busy enough with the right routing since it would be serving some large potential population centers and the intermediate markets. 

This is probably getting off topic now, but how has rail fared with the blackouts in China?


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## blueman271 (Jul 30, 2022)

west point said:


> yes I have observed a large number of passengers off and on at Orlando for south Florida. The reports about Tampa is that Star has more passengers off and on to south Florida. If Brightline ever gets to Tampa they will get a lot of passengers to south Florida especially cruise passengers as Star does not meet cruise ships. It leaves Mia before arrivals of cruis and arrives Mia after cruise departures.


Hopefully nobody uses Amtrak to make same day cruise connections. Flying in the morning of a cruise is risky, trying that on Amtrak is a great way to guarantee missing the boat.


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## blueman271 (Jul 30, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Three offhand comments from a former Florida resident (I lived there for 34 years before moving back to Georgia):
> 
> 1. The Silver Comet was a SAL New York-Richmond-Atlanta-Birmingham train and should be remembered that way. It should never go to Florida. Bring back The Silver Palm if you have to.
> 2. The Silver Meteor had for several decades two sections--one to Miami and one to Tampa--and was, I believe, very a successful operation in that incarnation. It had that very interesting (and probably very expensive) split and make-up in Auburndale FL which I drove to many days just to watch.
> ...


I believe the split Florida service lasted until 1995 or 1996 when the Silver Palm was reintroduced as a NYP-MIA train. If memory serves, the Palm was the first Silver departure from NYP and the last from Miami and traveled via Wildwood and Ocala between Tampa and Jacksonville. 

After Amtrak ended the Auburndale operation they split and combined trains in Jacksonville for a few years before the Silver Palm came along. There is a really cool video on YouTube showing the Auburndale split.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 30, 2022)

This YouTube video?


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## blueman271 (Jul 30, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> This YouTube video?





I meant this one, but that one is great too.


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## Asher (Jul 31, 2022)

blueman271 said:


> Hopefully nobody uses Amtrak to make same day cruise connections. Flying in the morning of a cruise is risky, trying that on Amtrak is a great way to guarantee missing the boat.


The boat leaves on schedule, Amtrak often times arrives whenever.


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## Amtrak709 (Aug 1, 2022)

blueman271 said:


> I believe the split Florida service lasted until 1995 or 1996 when the Silver Palm was reintroduced as a NYP-MIA train. If memory serves, the Palm was the first Silver departure from NYP and the last from Miami and traveled via Wildwood and Ocala between Tampa and Jacksonville.
> 
> After Amtrak ended the Auburndale operation they split and combined trains in Jacksonville for a few years before the Silver Palm came along. There is a really cool video on YouTube showing the Auburndale split.


blueman271: You know what I considered the best thing about the Silver Palm service was it offered a guaranteed connection to a bus to the Keys at the Amtrak MIA station. We did the trip I think 3 times SAV to Key Largo (we liked Key Largo). The arrival and departure times in SAV were a bit brutal, but it was a good trip.


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