# Editorial on locations for Northstar rail stations in St. Cloud



## jebr (Nov 24, 2013)

> The front-page Times news report Monday about residential and other development near Northstar commuter rail stations raises an interesting question for the future of the St. Cloud area: Where should its Northstar station be located?
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> Even though the station is years away, the answer seems clear: Follow the established plan to build the station at the current Northstar Link park-and-ride lot off U.S. Highway 10 in southeast St. Cloud. The rail line is adjacent to the lot.


Full article

It also raises an interesting question for those of us liking to speculate on this board: would it make sense to move the Amtrak station to the Link lot, should Northstar have its station there?

*Please note that there are no immediate plans to build a Northstar station in St. Cloud right now, but the Northstar plan does extend to St. Cloud at some (undetermined) point.*


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## MattW (Nov 24, 2013)

Regardless of where the station ends up, I personally feel that the outermost commuter rail station along an Amtrak route should also be an Amtrak station. Something like San Bernadino Metrolink, Manassas and Fredericksburg on VRE.

In terms of the situation at hand, I don't know the exact demographics or area so I'm going off of Google Maps imagery. Based on this, putting both stations at the park and ride lot doesn't look too bad. It's already roughly en-route for people heading toward the twin cities. But development like they want isn't going to spring up for the peak-oriented schedule Northstar has now. I'm not saying they need LIRR-level service, but a few reverse-peak, a few off-peak and a few evening trains would be beneficial. Ideally, they could put a station closer to downtown, but that A. takes the Northstar trains off of Amtrak's route, and B. there doesn't appear to be enough room.


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## jebr (Nov 24, 2013)

MattW said:


> Regardless of where the station ends up, I personally feel that the outermost commuter rail station along an Amtrak route should also be an Amtrak station. Something like San Bernadino Metrolink, Manassas and Fredericksburg on VRE.
> 
> In terms of the situation at hand, I don't know the exact demographics or area so I'm going off of Google Maps imagery. Based on this, putting both stations at the park and ride lot doesn't look too bad. It's already roughly en-route for people heading toward the twin cities. But development like they want isn't going to spring up for the peak-oriented schedule Northstar has now. I'm not saying they need LIRR-level service, but a few reverse-peak, a few off-peak and a few evening trains would be beneficial. Ideally, they could put a station closer to downtown, but that A. takes the Northstar trains off of Amtrak's route, and B. there doesn't appear to be enough room.


Yeah, there's no good place to put a station downtown. In my dream world it'd be nice to get a station out near the interstate, but I don't think the tracks are in any condition to support that. Until that happens, I may continue to go to Big Lake or a station that doesn't require going through all of St. Cloud, even when they do eventually get it to St. Cloud. (I'd probably take Becker or Clear Lake, though.)


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## SubwayNut (Nov 24, 2013)

Is there any talk of Amtrak starting to stop at a current Northstar station (with excess parking capacity) to become a Park & Ride suburban station on the Empire Builder for the twin cities to satisfy Empire Builder customers who want to drive to the train and will lose the perk of free parking once the move from Midway Station (with its free parking) to downtown St. Paul?


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## jebr (Nov 24, 2013)

SubwayNut said:


> Is there any talk of Amtrak starting to stop at a current Northstar station (with excess parking capacity) to become a Park & Ride suburban station on the Empire Builder for the twin cities to satisfy Empire Builder customers who want to drive to the train and will lose the perk of free parking once the move from Midway Station (with its free parking) to downtown St. Paul?


Nothing that I've heard. I think it would be a good idea, though the Builder's eastbound schedule would have a stop during rush hour for the Northstar, which would be problematic for commuters.


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## Nathanael (Nov 25, 2013)

I don't think there's a reasonable place to stop the Builder between St. Paul and St. Cloud right now. Coon Rapids Foley Boulevard would make sense if it were ever built, as would Northeast Minneapolis (even less likely to be built). Fridley might make sense but the platform would probably have to be lengthened. BNSF doesn't want the EB blocking its mainline in that area while making multiple stops on a short platform.

Regarding the St. Cloud station location, my instinct is for something on 3rd St. SE, with great expressway access *and* walking distance of downtown. This would require buying some buildings, though.


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## fairviewroad (Nov 25, 2013)

jebr said:


> Nothing that I've heard. I think it would be a good idea, though the Builder's eastbound schedule would have a stop during rush hour for the Northstar, which would be problematic for commuters.


Happily (cough, cough) this would not appear to be a conflict on most days.



> Amtrak train status history - Check on time performance and Amtrak delays	Status for train 8 arriving into SCD2013-11-25: Scheduled: 5:14 am Actual: 10:56 am Delay: 348 minutes
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> 2013-11-24: Scheduled: 5:14 am Actual: 8:15 am Delay: 187 minutes
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> ...


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## jebr (Nov 25, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> I don't think there's a reasonable place to stop the Builder between St. Paul and St. Cloud right now. Coon Rapids Foley Boulevard would make sense if it were ever built, as would Northeast Minneapolis (even less likely to be built). Fridley might make sense but the platform would probably have to be lengthened. BNSF doesn't want the EB blocking its mainline in that area while making multiple stops on a short platform.
> 
> Regarding the St. Cloud station location, my instinct is for something on 3rd St. SE, with great expressway access *and* walking distance of downtown. This would require buying some buildings, though.


US 10 already has good access with the current location, so you're basically gaining the walking distance to downtown benefit. This might just be better served by a bus; if anything, finding a way to get it closer to SCSU would be better, though I don't think that's possible.

I'm looking more at access from the west on 94, but to do that you have to go off the mainline and onto feeder tracks that probably aren't kept up to spec. Anyone coming from western Stearns County (or west of St. Cloud in general) would not want to drive through St. Cloud just to catch the train to Minneapolis. They'll either go to a station much easier to access from 94 (say, Becker or Big Lake) or just drive down.

As for Foley Blvd., even if the station is built there parking will be an issue. That parking lot fills up on weekdays with commuters, and I highly doubt Metro Transit wants 60-100 Amtrak patrons taking up spots there. Fridley makes more sense from that standpoint, as there's plenty of excess parking capacity there. Whether BNSF will take it or not is another story. Any other stations "gut check" in my mind to be too far north to be of benefit to most people in the Cities, though it's not really that much worse.



fairviewroad said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing that I've heard. I think it would be a good idea, though the Builder's eastbound schedule would have a stop during rush hour for the Northstar, which would be problematic for commuters.
> ...


If only Amtrak could allow it through based on the fact they're running so late. 

Hopefully within the next couple years, though, Amtrak should be running relatively on-time. When that happens, they'll be clashing with the Northstars coming in. Assuming an hour between SCD and Fridley, you're looking at 6:14am in Fridley, which hits just before the 6:24am Northstar. There's also a 6:54, 7:24, and 7:54am Northstar they'd contend with, so even if they're running an hour late they'd have to go in between them, and I'm not sure where BNSF would hold the Builder at to let a Northstar pass.

While I think it makes sense to have a Fridley stop, it seems easier to find a way for Amtrak to validate parking at SPUD, and might even be cheaper overall. For now, I think Amtrak expects passengers who want free parking to use SCD or RDW.


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