# Iraq's Baghdad-Samarra Express



## WhoozOn1st (May 15, 2009)

Reporter Nic Robertson says some of the rolling stock is taken from Saddam Hussein's personal train. In one shot it looks like the locomotive would give an old Alco a run for its money, smokewise.

Iraqi train offers hope

Video may begin with a commercial.


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## PetalumaLoco (May 15, 2009)

Iraqtrak!


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## PetalumaLoco (May 15, 2009)

WhoozOn1st said:


> Reporter Nic Robertson says some of the rolling stock is taken from Saddam Hussein's personal train. In one shot it looks like the locomotive would give an old Alco a run for its money, smokewise.
> Iraqi train offers hope
> 
> Video may begin with a commercial.


I like the guy waving the train thru the crossing; guess it makes him feel important.


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## WhoozOn1st (May 15, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Iraqtrak!


Formerly SaddAmtrak.


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## PetalumaLoco (May 15, 2009)

WhoozOn1st said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > Iraqtrak!
> ...


Nice one. You get the cookie.


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## jis (May 16, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Iraqtrak!


The official name is _Iraq Republic Railway (__*IRR*__)_. So perhaps _Itrak_ or _Irtrak_ might be more in keeping with the spirit of _Amtrak_


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## Sam31452 (May 16, 2009)

However, I can't get to Baghdad by train from Western Europe anymore. :angry:

Istanbul-Teheran is still possible, Istanbul-Damascus too.

Western-Europe-Moscow-Beijing-Ho Chi Minh City is possible with just 2 changes (in Moscow and Beijing), Lisbon-HoChiMinhCity is probably the longest stretch one can travel by train.

And frankly speaking: to name another railway after Amtrak is quite a weird idea, as Amtrak is not what I would call a model.


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## PetalumaLoco (May 17, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> However, I can't get to Baghdad by train from Western Europe anymore. :angry: Istanbul-Teheran is still possible, Istanbul-Damascus too.
> 
> Western-Europe-Moscow-Beijing-Ho Chi Minh City is possible with just 2 changes (in Moscow and Beijing), Lisbon-HoChiMinhCity is probably the longest stretch one can travel by train.
> 
> And frankly speaking: to name another railway after Amtrak is quite a weird idea, as Amtrak is not what I would call a model.


Shirley you can't be taking us seriously... :blink:


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## Sam31452 (May 17, 2009)

> Shirley you can't be taking us seriously...


I'm sorry, I do. If you want to get something done railway-wise, then Amtrak isn't the way to go.

There is a huge difference between the swiss, the german, the austrian, the swedish, the finnish, the norwegian (etc.) railways and Amtrak.

Amtrak does the best it can do with the resoucres it gets. But even Switzerland and Austria are spending more money on public transport than Amtrak gets. And due to the lack of infrastructure funding Amtrak will never make money with it's trains. But these are the obvious problems we all know.

Compare that to the german railways.

And yes, when going to China, I would take the train.


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## jis (May 17, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> And yes, when going to China, I would take the train.


All the way from the US to China? :lol:


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## Sam31452 (May 17, 2009)

> All the way from the US to China?


Nope, I live in Europe.

But yes, if there was a railway line crossing the Bering Strait I would surely use it!


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## jis (May 17, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> Nope, I live in Europe.But yes, if there was a railway line crossing the Bering Strait I would surely use it!


Ah yes, it would be a wonderful experience to travel from Europe to China by rail I would like to do it someday. So you will be heading to Moskva and then take the Trans-Mongolian from there? Or are you planning to go via Shenyang? I am jealous! h34r:


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## PetalumaLoco (May 17, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > Shirley you can't be taking us seriously...
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I do. If you want to get something done railway-wise, then Amtrak isn't the way to go.
> ...


You don't get that we're kidding about the names. As if we would foist Amtrak on someone else... get real.


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## jis (May 17, 2009)

It occurs to me that Baghdad to Samarrah would essentially be a short regional run. When Baghdad - Basrah and Baghdad - Mosul service is restored that will be worth writing home about  . Baghdad - Mosul is part of the route of the earstwhile Taurus Express which connected Baghdad to Istanbul.

Trying to get past this apparently extremely contentious issue of whether someone is trying to foist Amtrak on someone else or not, while reading the OP I got curious and looked up IRR in Wikipedia and was surprised to find the amount of construction of new international connections to IRR that is going on.

According to the article there are connections being constructed both to Iran and potentially to Syria. If and when the political situation stabilizes there will open up additional trans-border travel possibilities by train. The one most advanced is the connection between IRR and RAI (Rah-e-Ahan Iran) or IRIR (Islamic Republic of Iran Railways) connecting Basrah with Khorramshahr in Iran. Of course Khorramshahr is connected to Tehran via Ahvaz. There is a second link between Baghdad and Khorramshahr that is also under construction.


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## George Harris_* (May 17, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> Western-Europe-Moscow-Beijing-Ho Chi Minh City is possible with just 2 changes (in Moscow and Beijing), Lisbon-HoChiMinhCity is probably the longest stretch one can travel by train.


This can't be right. I know that you can get Moscow - Beijing through because they have coaches built so the wheelsets can be changed at the China-Mongolia border. Russia being 5 feet gauge and China "standard" 4'-8.5" gauge, but you are not riding through from Beijing to HoChiMinh, as south of Hanoi the railroad is one meter gauge. Therefore, at least one more change.

Also, Lisbon - Moscow? That crosses two changes of track gauge, from the Iberian Peninsula's 5'-3" (I think but have not checked) to Continental European standard, to the Russian 5 foot gauge. I think Paris to Moscow is possible, but is there really through equipment all the way between Moscow and Lisbon?

I would say at least four changes of trains - MINIMUM - without solid evidence to the contrary.


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## jis (May 18, 2009)

George Harris_* said:


> his can't be right. I know that you can get Moscow - Beijing through because they have coaches built so the wheelsets can be changed at the China-Mongolia border. Russia being 5 feet gauge and China "standard" 4'-8.5" gauge, but you are not riding through from Beijing to HoChiMinh, as south of Hanoi the railroad is one meter gauge. Therefore, at least one more change.


Actually, unless something has changed in the last 12 months, according to my trusted Thomas Cook World Edition from mid 2008, the gauge change from Standard to Meter happens near the China-Viet Nam border at Dong Dang. There is a through car Pingxiang - Dong Dang - Hanoi, which apparently undergoes gauge change at the border. Hanoi is definitely all meter gauge. It is possible to get a single seat ride from Beijing to Dong Dang



> Also, Lisbon - Moscow? That crosses two changes of track gauge, from the Iberian Peninsula's 5'-3" (I think but have not checked) to Continental European standard, to the Russian 5 foot gauge. I think Paris to Moscow is possible, but is there really through equipment all the way between Moscow and Lisbon?


I am not sure that there is the through Paris - Moscow car anymore. I believe there still is an Amsterdam - Moscow through car though. There certainly is no through car Lisbon - Moscow, or for that matter Lisbon - Amsterdam AFAIK.



> I would say at least four changes of trains - MINIMUM - without solid evidence to the contrary.


Sounds about right.


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## Sam31452 (May 18, 2009)

=> When I mentioned 2 changes from Western Europe, I thought about Berlin and Vienna, of course from Lisbon it takes at least 2 more changes (Hendaye and Paris). Unfortunately the timetable for the Beijing-Hanoi train is no longer available on : Vietnam Railways So I have to admit that it's Hanoi and not Ho Chi Minh City where you could get to a (at least a few years ago) from Vienna or Berlin with just 2 changes.



> It occurs to me that Baghdad to Samarrah would essentially be a short regional run. When Baghdad - Basrah and Baghdad - Mosul service is restored that will be worth writing home about . Baghdad - Mosul is part of the route of the earstwhile Taurus Express which connected Baghdad to Istanbul.


I know the story from Bosnia-Hercegovina. There was once a really extensive (think about Colorado) narrow gauge network. Then in 1968 they shut down the entire system and replaced it by a few standard gauge lines. Then war came in in 1991, and railway service never recovered entirely. Although the Sarajevo-Ploce line is among the most scenic in Europe and connects two larger cities (Sarajevo and Mostar) there are only 2 trains a day nowadays. I fear the same thing to happen in Iraq.



> As if we would foist Amtrak on someone else... get real.


Well if one desn't know anything else than Amtrak, then one could easily come to the idea that this is the way railways work nowadays.

If european railways get as much attention in the US as american railways get in Europe (from non-professionals) this would be quite certain.


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## jis (May 18, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > It occurs to me that Baghdad to Samarrah would essentially be a short regional run. When Baghdad - Basrah and Baghdad - Mosul service is restored that will be worth writing home about . Baghdad - Mosul is part of the route of the earstwhile Taurus Express which connected Baghdad to Istanbul.
> 
> 
> I know the story from Bosnia-Hercegovina. There was once a really extensive (think about Colorado) narrow gauge network. Then in 1968 they shut down the entire system and replaced it by a few standard gauge lines. Then war came in in 1991, and railway service never recovered entirely. Although the Sarajevo-Ploce line is among the most scenic in Europe and connects two larger cities (Sarajevo and Mostar) there are only 2 trains a day nowadays. I fear the same thing to happen in Iraq.


Indeed it could and it probably will if Iraq depends on the US to restore its infrastructure. Fortunately, they do have other alternatives that they could consider. Only time will tell. In times before Saddam developed his megalomania Iraq used to buy quite a lot of railroad related stuff from India for example.



> > As if we would foist Amtrak on someone else... get real.
> 
> 
> Well if one desn't know anything else than Amtrak, then one could easily come to the idea that this is the way railways work nowadays.
> ...


As you might have noticed, at least a few of us are quite knowledgeable about operations other than Amtrak from various parts of the world, and we would not dream of exporting many of Amtrak's foibles to the rest of the world. So I think you can rest assured that in this case it was all in a jest.


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## PetalumaLoco (May 18, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> => When I mentioned 2 changes from Western Europe, I thought about Berlin and Vienna, of course from Lisbon it takes at least 2 more changes (Hendaye and Paris). Unfortunately the timetable for the Beijing-Hanoi train is no longer available on : Vietnam Railways So I have to admit that it's Hanoi and not Ho Chi Minh City where you could get to a (at least a few years ago) from Vienna or Berlin with just 2 changes.
> 
> 
> > It occurs to me that Baghdad to Samarrah would essentially be a short regional run. When Baghdad - Basrah and Baghdad - Mosul service is restored that will be worth writing home about . Baghdad - Mosul is part of the route of the earstwhile Taurus Express which connected Baghdad to Istanbul.
> ...


You assume too much, I have ridden European rail. We're not all ignorant of the world here. And like I said this was all in fun, not to be taken seriously.


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## Sam31452 (May 18, 2009)

> You assume too much, I have ridden European rail. We're not all ignorant of the world here. And like I said this was all in fun, not to be taken seriously.


It wasn't excatly my goal to insult you, but if you feel so, i'm sorry.

Still I have to admit that general knowledge about US railways is very limited in Europe.


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## George Harris (May 18, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > You assume too much, I have ridden European rail. We're not all ignorant of the world here. And like I said this was all in fun, not to be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> It wasn't excatly my goal to insult you, but if you feel so, i'm sorry.
> ...


now, that last sentence is one of the greatest *understatements* I have seen or heard in a long time.


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## Sam31452 (May 18, 2009)

> now, that last sentence is one of the greatest understatements I have seen or heard in a long time.


I'm including all the railways of the US and I include general european public, not only railfans.

If you want to try this: ask somebody in Europe what or who the Bailey Yard could be.

But we're going very off-topic now, I propose to end this discussion.


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## jis (May 18, 2009)

Sam,

Going back to your proposed trip to Beijing or something like that, were you going to share with us what you plan to do? As I said I was already feeling jealous


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