# New Equipment?



## CSXfoamer1997 (Apr 18, 2016)

Are there any plans for VIA Rail to purchase new equipment to replace the aging F40's and streamlined passenger cars?


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## Palmetto (Apr 18, 2016)

There's some discussion of new corridor equipment on the Canadian Rail Yahoo group.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> Are there any plans for VIA Rail to purchase new equipment to replace the aging F40's and streamlined passenger cars?


Not that I'm aware of. Since they recently rebuilt the Park Cars and other "Prestige Class" Sleepers it seems they plan to keep them around.

Is there really a need for new car bodies ever? Properly refurbished vintage cars seem to do the job just fine. VIA Rail, Iowa Pacific, Piedmont Trains, etc.

I'm not sure what Amtrak is paying for the new Viewliner Diners but it would be interesting to compare the costs with a total refurbishment of the existing heritage diners.


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## Amfleeter (Apr 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> CSXfoamer1997 said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any plans for VIA Rail to purchase new equipment to replace the aging F40's and streamlined passenger cars?
> ...


The problem is that's a very poor comparison - VIA and IP's diners are in _far _better condition than Amtrak's - Amtrak has run its diners far harder than VIA or IP ever have or will run their Budd diners - many of Amtrak's diners are literally becoming unsafe, even if refurbished, because the frames are literally that worn out. Some of the baggages were at risk of breaking their own backs if run too much more.

VIA can afford to continuously refurbish their equipment for years primarily because they've historically been better cared for, and because VIA can more afford to pull a diner out of rotation on the Canadian or Churchill train., on top of the fact that VIA's diners are younger than most of Amtrak's. Most of Amtrak's diners suffered during the budget issues of the 80s, and Amtrak can far less afford to pull a diner out of the pool. The Canadian also has several stops where minor maintenance can be conducted during its trip, notably the stop at Winnipeg, where there's a repair facility that specializes in the Budd cars, and where a diner can be switched out if need be (I've actually had that almost happen on one trip, however, they managed to repair the issue with the diner, which was broken A/C)


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## NS VIA Fan (Apr 18, 2016)

VIA recently completely rebuilt their F40 fleet so they're good for a few more years.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/capital-investment/media-gallery/f40-overhaul

The units now have an independent HEP Generator that required reconstructing and enclosing the platform with a raised roof at the rear of the units. You can see it in these photos.

















......and as originally constructed with a rear platform:


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

Amfleeter said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > CSXfoamer1997 said:
> ...


Nothing in the world is a perfect comparison. But I can't imagine a closer comparison than Amtrak and VIA. Yes the apple tree is farther north, and the farmer may treat the apple tree better up there (although that may be an opinion... I'm not sure VIA is known for their amazing maintenance) but we are talking about Apples and Apples here, not Apples and Oranges.

Do you have any source that their are frame issues with the Amtrak Diners? And even if that is the case... can you fix those issues?

What do you mean by "amtrak has run its diners far harder" - does that mean they have more mileage? have been handled poorly in the yard?

And that's why i said "total refurbishment" that would fix any issues with the heritage diners and bring them up to like new standards.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

In case my post above came out wrong... I'm not claiming Amtrak Diners could or should have been refurbished with plans to run them another few decades. I'm just wondering if that was even considered, and if it would have been more cost effective.


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## MikefromCrete (Apr 18, 2016)

Amtark's diners are old and tired. They need to go. Amtrak's diner fleet is constantly on the move, every day of the week, running at 79 mph and above.

VIA's diners on the Canadian run two or three times a week on a leisurely schedule. They also all came from the same fleet, CP's, and were built at the same time. So parts are interchangeable, if not easy to find. Amtrak's came from a variety of fleets built at different times. Each one is almost unique. A time comes for everything to come to an end. Even VIA will eventually have to reequip the Canadian. In the meantime, it seems replacement of VIA's corridor equipment is much more important.


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

Your math doesn't add up. The fact that via runs the Canadian 3 times a week doesn't mean the diners aren't used daily (or as close to daily as Amtraks diners). Also the average speed of the Canadian is about the same as Amtrak outside of the corridor.

What I was suggesting was a total refurbishment which would take the frames of the heritage diners, and make them a brand new matching fleet. Similar to what NC did with the Piedmont heritage cars.


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## CCC1007 (Apr 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Your math doesn't add up. The fact that via runs the Canadian 3 times a week doesn't mean the diners aren't used daily (or as close to daily as Amtraks diners). Also the average speed of the Canadian is about the same as Amtrak outside of the corridor.
> 
> What I was suggesting was a total refurbishment which would take the frames of the heritage diners, and make them a brand new matching fleet. Similar to what NC did with the Piedmont heritage cars.


Probably easier to start from scratch.The cars for the Canadian have a full day or more on each end for a layover.


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## railiner (Apr 18, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> VIA recently completely rebuilt their F40 fleet so they're good for a few more years.
> 
> http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/capital-investment/media-gallery/f40-overhaul
> 
> ...


Very interesting! I wasn't aware of this. I wonder how much HP that CAT genset produces? The concept harkens back to when Amtrak replaced the original steam generators on the SDP40F's with Detroit Diesel HEP generators for the new HEP equipment...The newer GE 'Pooches' came already set up with auxiliary gensets...


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 18, 2016)

Think of it this way...

Amtrak payed an average of 2.29 Million per car for the new Viewliners (Obviously a diner costs more than a baggage car but I'm using the average. Source - http://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/welcoming-the-next-generation-viewliner-II).

I think 1 million per car could have gotten them in great shape again.

On the other hand.... It probably didn't come down to 2.29 million per car. So it probably made perfect sense to order the new diners along with the new viewliner sleepers, which were obviously needed.

Anyways... back to VIA. I don't think there Budd cars are going anywhere for a while!


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