# Traveling with newly expired Drivers license



## Rachel (May 17, 2015)

My drivers license expired three days ago, and I am traveling Amtrak on May 19th. On the back of my license it says I have a 14 day grace period so I am wondering if I will be okay or which other identification documents would be best to bring. I would really rather not bring my passport. I have a student id, my social security card, a health insurance card, and a few credit cards including one with my picture on it. Thanks for the help.


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## Eris (May 17, 2015)

In most cases you won't even be asked for your ID, but if you are, I'm going to bet you'll have no trouble with your slightly-expired Driver License, especially in combination with your other wallet cards (but leave that Social Security card home).

Oh, actually, your student ID is probably fine:

From http://www.amtrak.com/passenger-identification



> What is a Valid ID?To be valid, your identification must be current and in-force. The following forms of identification are acceptable for persons 18 and older:
> 
> 
> One piece of photo identification issued by a government authority, or
> ...


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## amamba (May 17, 2015)

Bring your driver's license and your student ID. Definitely leave the Social security card at home. That is even more important to leave at home than your passport IMO!. That should always be kept in a safe location and never carried on your person.

Good luck!


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## saxman (May 17, 2015)

I've seen agents turn away people that had an expired license. I'd bring your passport, just in case. I always have my passport with my anyways.


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## zepherdude (May 17, 2015)

An expired license is not a legal form of ID. You might be in more trouble by showing it. I vote for student ID and passport. IDs these days are nothing to mess with when traveling. I never travel without my passport.


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## TinCan782 (May 17, 2015)

"On the back of my license it says I have a 14 day grace period"

That is probably for renewal without penalty after expiration. 

The "perception" of the validy of an expired license is in the eyes of the beholder...the official examining the license. YMMV


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## Cina (May 17, 2015)

If you run down to the DMV to renew, they'll probably give you a paper temporary drivers license that's perfectly legit (for like a month until they send you your new one)... at least that's what they do here. Sometimes you can also renew online, not sure if they give you a temporary one, though, in that instance.


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## GregL (May 17, 2015)

Iowa residents have a grace period of thirty days before and thirty days after their birthday on the expiring year.


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## Guest-Thomas (May 17, 2015)

I was once almsot denied passage on Amtrak when the Conductor asked to see ID and it had expired within a week. She would not accept the ID but finally let me ride since I had another photo id (was a theme park annual pass, was surprised she accepted that).

I now carry a valid State ID and a Passport card in my wallet, and my passport book in my luggage. Better safe than watching the train leave me! ha.


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## rusty spike (May 17, 2015)

According to Chapter 8 Section 1of the Amtrak Service Standards Manual, a current Student Photo iD is a valid as a government issued ID.

_United States Residents – Examples of
Government-Issued Photo Identification (One
required)
• State-issued driver’s license
• State-issued identification card issued by the
same agency that issues driver’s licenses
• U.S. Passport
• U.S. Resident Alien Card
• University, college or middle/high school
photo identification – public or private
• United States Armed Forces military
identification
• Job Corps photo identification
• Veterans Access Card issued by the U.S.
Department of Veterans Affairs
• Tribal identification (Native American/First
Nations, etc.)
• Law enforcement (police, etc.) photo
identification
• Amtrak employee photo identification
• Federal, state, county or local government_

However, unless you are checking luggage, you probably are not going to need ID, I doubt you wil be ask for any ID on board the train. I would leave my passport and I would definitely leave my SS card at home.


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## Rachel (May 17, 2015)

Thanks for all the responses. I'm not checking any luggage, I already have my ticket printed and ready to go. I was hoping my college ID would work but the only info on the id card is my birth date and my college id number, no validity or expiration dates listed, so that's very inconvenient. I was hoping to not take my passport or birth certificate just because I will be staying with friends in Baltimore, in not necessarily the safest location and don't want that extra thing to worry about, but I do want to get the train... So I'll bring what I have to bring.


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## Peter KG6LSE (May 17, 2015)

Jeeez how nutty can amtrak get . Lets be real .

every uni I went to had IDs with photos. .... whose to say they cant be faked? they are as far from the Enhanced ID that your friends at the DHS want you to carry as, papers please ..

Yet a hologramed barely expired ID from a state has some how less value then a laminated over prized library card from a random college.

/rant/

IMO take the passport and Yes leave the SSnumber paper wad at home

* for the record . WHY is such a important number on PLAIN paper. at 20 USD bill has more cotton in it and lasts longer .


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## jis (May 18, 2015)

Interestingly neither the US Passport Card, nor the US Globa Entry Id Card, both of which are acceptable Ids for crossing a terrestrial border into the US, are listed in Amtrak's list, expkicitly, but as Federal Government issued card I suppose they should be acceptable. Hey! TSA has no problem with accepting either  I guess I will have to give my Global Entry a try on Amtrak and see what happens 

Don't even get me started..... Oh well, I guess too late, already did  ...

The US Social Security Card related rules are beyond insane. When I got my SS Card it was a cardboard card with the SS# typed on it using a typewriter. Heck I could have created myself one in my lab if I was inclined to do so. There were no anti-forgery features on it at all! Anyway, It said that it must not be laminated. So of course the first thing I did with it was laminate it so that it would not fall apart.  Since then I have used it officially several times and no one has complained about the lamination. It has lasted in its original form with lamination now for 38 years.

A young whipper snapper of an agent who was born a decade after my SS card was issued to me, who interviewed me for the first round of GOES, sat there wondering how I managed to get an SS Card before I got a work permit. I suggested that he go and read up on the history of when SS cards started requiring a work permit. It was way after '77. He mistakenly thought that I was paying SS tax when I was not allowed to work, just because I had an SS card. A quick reference to my SS tax collection record disabused him of that. Sheesh! I wish they'd actually educate these characters a bit about the history of things that they have to deal with, before sending 'em off to the field. Of course it is also possible that the whole thing was a put up act too


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## me_little_me (May 18, 2015)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> Jeeez how nutty can amtrak get . Lets be real .
> 
> every uni I went to had IDs with photos. .... whose to say they cant be faked? they are as far from the Enhanced ID that your friends at the DHS want you to carry as, papers please ..
> 
> ...


I agree. There are only 50 states so anyone regularly checking IDs from people all over the country should be able to recognize them. With thousands of colleges and zillions of high schools, anyone can fake an ID from _Podunk College of Terrorism and Jihad_ and nobody except the dean would know it was a fake.


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## andersone (May 18, 2015)

I carried my draft card from 1968 until three years ago when it disintegrated. Hope they don't want to call my number anyore


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## Headache (May 18, 2015)

As a former truck driver I can definitely state that since 9/11 everything changed regarding travel, shipping, IDs, etc. Where we used to be able to get away with a freshly expired ID of some form it's rarely the case now. Even more importantly is keeping ON TOP of your IDs and expiration dates because of identity theft. I had a friend that went in to renew her drivers license only to find out that it already had been by someone else. I would do everything possible to renew it before I left.


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## Guest (May 18, 2015)

Would an expired driver's license really be an invalid form of ID? I mean, while you could not legally drive, its not like your ID itself expired (you cease to exist as a person).

I know that an expired passport can still be used for ID and such, just not for customs/international traveling.


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## Guest (May 18, 2015)

andersone said:


> I carried my draft card from 1968 until three years ago when it disintegrated. Hope they don't want to call my number anyore


I still carry mine. 

It says I must, until I am notified that I no longer have to, and I have never received any such formal notice. Otherwise, face a $10,000 fine, and/or 5 years in prison. I am not about to take such a risk.


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## Bob Dylan (May 18, 2015)

Good story jis! When my late wife first came to the US from Canada on her temporary non-resident "alien" visa ,( guess the Govt thought Canadians were from Mars! LOL)she was able to get a drivers license and Social Security # before she got her temporary Green Card!( they actually used to be green!)

She was then allowed allowed to work but couldn't leave the US without permission for a year!! When her father became seriously ill that first year, and passed away, she was allowed to travel to/ from Canada and used her Canadian passport @ the Airports in Austin, Houston and Toronto. They wouldn't take her temporary Green Card and written permission letter!!! ( it was actually typed and notorized on an official US Govt. INS Form!!)

After 3 years, she was issued her permanent Green Card and was then eligible to apply for US Citizenship!

I know the procedures depended on what country of origin was involved and changed several times, especially after 911 and the creation of the Giant Octupus, the DOHS! Just curious if it was the same for you back in the day??


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## jis (May 18, 2015)

Andersone, maybe just for the heck of it you should apply for a replacement draft card since yours fell apart and see what happens 

Jim, back in '77 they did not bother with so called ITIN for those that did not have work permits. They just gave you an SS card, and with no special annotation on it about anything either. My sequence was F-1 Student (no work permit but allows one to work under certain circumstances like one year training at a job after completion of degree program, and collect scholarship, fellowship, teaching and research assistantship and such, and not eligible to pay SS tax), H-1 Alien Employee (allows one to be employed and pay SS tax), Green Card (which then used to be grey in color and no concept of temporary card when you got it on Third Preference. Once you got I-155 authorization you just received a card for life). That was in 1985. And finally Naturalization in 1990 or 91, I forget exactly which year off the top of my head.

Incidentally, when my Dad came as a student back in 1946, he was directly given a Resident Alien Visa (unlimited number of entries with no expiry date!) stamped in his Passport. That was what Green Card looked like back then. Since he went back after graduating, no one in our family has ever had a problem getting a non-resident visa to visit the US. The American Consular Service keep extremely good records. They (The Consular Section in the US Embassy in New Delhi) knew my Dad's history when I applied for my F-1, and even before that when my Dad applied for J-1 and J-2 for us to visit in 1965.


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## Headache (May 18, 2015)

If a drivers license has expired it is considered invalid for anything in some states. Check your state regulations to be sure. Since I carry a CDL I'm under tighter rules.

Also, the regulation that required one to carry their draft card was removed in the 70s and has not been reinstated since removal. The removal of the law also removed the requirement to notify you that you don't have to carry it.

http://www.sss.gov/FSdraftcd.htm



> Selective Service Regulations required each registrant to have his card in his possession at all times. This requirement was removed from the regulations in late 1974, shortly before registration was suspended, and it has not been reinstituted.


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## Braniff747SP (May 18, 2015)

You'll be fine -- even if they ask for it, you're unlikely to run into someone anal enough to care.

I always carry around a driver's license and a passport card... Good for situations like these, I guess.


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## andersone (May 18, 2015)

I actually complied with something for more than twenty years longer than I was supposed to> Mother would be shocked - and thanks for the good read JIS


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## Headache (May 19, 2015)

When I made my reservation the agent brought up randomly being subject to an inspection. She said it happens to about 30% of the passengers and I'd need a current form of ID in case of that as well as when I check in for initial boarding. YMMV


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## JoeBas (May 19, 2015)

If you're checking bags, you'll likely get your ID checked.

If your ID is no good, there's a small but nonzero chance that the person checking it will be bored, or a drone, or having a bad day, or just generally an a-hole, and deny you a ticket/boarding.

Last summer, there was a woman at HOS who had come from NOL on an expired ID, only to be told when she went to pick up her return ticket at HOS that she was SOL (and I don't mean the station). She was... less than thrilled.


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## jis (May 19, 2015)

That is why you should try to arrange things in such a way that you are least likely to have to deal with a human agent. They are more or less unpredictable in their behavior.


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## Headache (May 19, 2015)

I'm not checking bags. From the way she described it(scripted I'm sure) passengers can be pulled at random for bag and ID inspections. I do agree that it depends on the agent you have to deal with and what kind of day they are having. That's true for everything.


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## fairviewroad (May 19, 2015)

jis said:


> That is why you should try to arrange things in such a way that you are least likely to have to deal with a human agent. They are more or less unpredictable;e in their behavior.


Sadly, this is true in so many travel situations, not just Amtrak.

To the OP: Please check back and let us know how it went.


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## SubwayNut (May 19, 2015)

I've told this story here before:

I lost my Drivers Licensee in the middle of an Amtrak trip once a couple of years ago. No idea how it happened. I tried to buy a beer with my dinner in Flagstaff waiting for the train and found that it wasn't in my wallet. The bar man actually took sympathy on me as I dug through my wallet saying "I've seen you in here before." (totally not true). My form of government ID was a copy of my passport's photo page, that I decided having the original document fed-Exed to me would be unnecessary.

Managed to complete my trip, a 3 segment great circle AGR award redemption to MSP with an additional 9 segments in total including a few points runs wandering around Chicago. I was staying with friends except for one night in Chicago when I managed to convince the HI (I called a few days before, the Getaway Hostel I called first said no we can't accept guests without IDs) to let me stay on my then printed scanned copy of my passport. I'm relatively young and managed to drink my way through the various 'champaign' and wine tastings on the Starlight and Empire Builder. I just avoided talking to any agents.

I will say on my very next Amtrak trip after I had gotten a replacement ID, I got the "I need to see your ID Sir?" question and gladly complied as I joked with the conductor about how I won the lottery.

In terms of expired IDs, bars even can be sticklers for them. I've been kicked out of a couple a few times because of friends with expired IDs a couple of times (in Colorado and Seattle). One memorable night in Colorado involved showing up to grab a drinks after midnight with someone the morning after technically their 21st Birthday. The first bar we tried wouldn't serve a classmate because his Colorado license had literally expired at just hours before midnight 20 days after he had turned 21 (Colorado requires you go in person to renew your license within 20 days of turning 21), the person who just turned 21's New York State ID had just expired on her birthday at midnight but the barman didn't notice the finer print on the NYS license. We left that establishment and went to a different bar where the bouncer let us in not checking expiration dates. In Seattle for a graduate school conference they were real sticklers a couple of classmates had expired NYS licenses and clearly used them fine in New York but were denited drinks with them in Seattle. They both grabbed their passports later (that they had brought on the trip for flying out).

My brother doesn't drive and uses his passport card exclusively and has had issues with bars a few times because they don't recognize the document.

Do renew your license but I wouldn't fully worry about and just avoid any Amtrak personal interaction especially in stations.


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## CoachSlumber (May 19, 2015)

GregL said:


> Iowa residents have a grace period of thirty days before and thirty days after their birthday on the expiring year.


But again, that is in regard to the fee and eligibility to renew. It does not mean the agency requiring ID has to honor an expired ID.


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## caravanman (May 19, 2015)

Let's be fair, what is the purpose of I.D. ? To prove who you are... so an official document which has recently expired should have as much validity as a current one. After all, you are the same person you were a few days ago.

I am not saying that anyone has to accept an expired ID, just saying how mad it is to not accept it at face value, if you will pardon the pun!

Ed.


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## rusty spike (May 19, 2015)

Regarding on-board random ID verification:

The conductor's scanner (eMD) device is programmed to prompt, at random, 10% of all tickets sold on that train for I.D verification. He is then required to match the name, date of birth, and photo of the ticket holder. Then he taps the button "ID verified" and moves on. If he has suspicion about a ticket holder, he can request ID. With the variety of different typles of ID's offered, he may not notice an expired one. But why risk it?

The station agent, however, is not random. It's 100% if purchasing a ticket or checking luggage.

YMMV.

edted for a bunch of typos.


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## peconicstation (May 20, 2015)

Whatever you can do, get that DL renewed, it's one thing for your home state to have a "grace" period, but DMV laws vary greatly from one state/commonwelath to another.

As an exmaple, New Hampshire is one of the only states that allows experienced drivers, who own their cars free and clear, to not carry auto insurance.

That said, it's only for intra-state travel, once you drive across a state line, you are in serious violation of their laws and are subject to an inpound.

My point being why have the cloud hanging over you while you travel.

Ken


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## AlanB (May 20, 2015)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> Jeeez how nutty can amtrak get . Lets be real .
> 
> every uni I went to had IDs with photos. .... whose to say they cant be faked? they are as far from the Enhanced ID that your friends at the DHS want you to carry as, papers please ..
> 
> ...


Remember that this whole ID thing isn't just Amtrak's doing. It's part of the deal that Amtrak made to keep the TSA as far away as possible from Amtrak.

Even I had to laugh back when this ID check thing happened at the ludicrous nature of the rules. At that time trained US Customs agents were having trouble spotting fake driver licenses and so that choice was eliminated. Now here comes the TSA saying that untrained (in spotting fake documents) conductors were somehow going to do better than the customs agents at spotting them.

But again, it keeps TSA interference to a minimum!


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## Peter KG6LSE (May 20, 2015)

I understand its a DHS/TSA thing .

I am amazed college IDs are used at all?! they are so simple .

I would hold those Credit cards with the embedded photos to be more of a proper vetted ID then some college print shop.


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## jis (May 20, 2015)

The whole thing seems to be a bot of a charade anyway.


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## fairviewroad (May 20, 2015)

rusty spike said:


> He is then required to match the name, date of birth, and photo of the ticket holder.


If this is truly the case, then the expiration date is irrelevant. I mean, you wouldn't want to use an expired

passport from 45 years ago, but a newly expired drivers license would still have all of that info. The conductor

isn't checking your eligibility to drive. But as others have stated, you just cannot take the "human" factor into

account and ultimately the conductor may remove you from the train if s/he feels like it.


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## rusty spike (May 20, 2015)

fairviewroad said:


> rusty spike said:
> 
> 
> > He is then required to match the name, date of birth, and photo of the ticket holder.
> ...


Of course it's relevant. The ID must be* valid* (current and in-force). Your two examples are *in*valid no matter whether they expired yesterday or 45 years ago.


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## fairviewroad (May 20, 2015)

rusty spike said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > rusty spike said:
> ...


I understand that Amtrak's policy does say ID must be current and in-force. I was simply responding to your assertion that conductors

are "required to match the name, date of birth, and photo of the ticket holder." If this is truly what they are trained to do, then they

would not automatically check the expiration date. Since the expiration date of the ID is not a matchable field, then it's quite likely that

most conductors don't even look...especially when they have a train-car full of other people to check. [Anyhow, some of the accepted

forms of ID don't even have DOB on it.]


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## rusty spike (May 20, 2015)

Step One would be to check the validity of the ID and that the photo is that of the ticketholder. If it is expired it is not valid. Period. TSA rules. If valid,then match name on ID to his mainfest. I believe DOB is used only to verify that someone traveling with a senior discount qualifies.

Having said that, conductors are multi-tasking and may not notice a DL that expired 5 days ago. But the OP's concern was that if ID were required, would a recently expired DL suffice. The short answer is no. That's why a valid student ID was suggested.

In the inconsistant and imperfect world of Amtrak we offer the disclaimer: "YMMV"


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## Sauve850 (May 20, 2015)

Ive never been asked for an ID. 20 yrs or more. Hmm.


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## rusty spike (May 20, 2015)

On board the train--me neither!


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## TinCan782 (May 20, 2015)

rusty spike said:


> On board the train--me neither!


The only time was when checking a bag. Boarding and while onboard, never.


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## Bob Dylan (May 20, 2015)

The Conductors in Austin, while scanning tickets, check everyone's ID that's boarding the 2 daily trains.

I've been spot checked where tickets are scanned/pulled aboard the train!

I've Always had to show ID on the trains to Canada and when buying tickets or checking luggage!


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## TinCan782 (May 20, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> The Conductors in Austin, while scanning tickets, check everyone's ID that's boarding the 2 daily trains.
> 
> I've been spot checked where tickets are scanned/pulled aboard the train!
> 
> I've Always had to show ID on the trains to Canada and when buying tickets or checking luggage!


Austin must be a "point of interest". Both times I've been northbound through there on 422, I've seen "police activity" on the platform!


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## Bob Dylan (May 20, 2015)

FrensicPic said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > The Conductors in Austin, while scanning tickets, check everyone's ID that's boarding the 2 daily trains.
> ...


Lots of tourists and drugs here! The Airport has lots of LE, that's where the DEA and HLS that come to the Amtrak Station come from!

The Austin Amtrak agents tell me it's a pretty regular thing with no set schedule!

Personally I've never seen them do anything but hang out, walk around with dogs, drink coffee and talk on cell phones.


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## fairviewroad (May 21, 2015)

jis said:


> That is why you should try to arrange things in such a way that you are least likely to have to deal with a human agent. They are more or less unpredictable in their behavior.


This is somewhat unrelated, but I was reminded of this comment while reading a USA Today article on the future of the airline industry. Specifically,

this section:

_Airlines plan to invest heavily in automation because travelers want self-service at the airport, unlike 20 years ago when check-in kiosks were criticized as dehumanizing the travel experience. "Now the demand is, 'Can you give me more self-service so I can actually manage my own flow through the airport, onto the plane?' " United's Wilson said._

You can count me among those who initially resisted the idea of kiosks and other self-service elements of travel. Now, I cringe when I have to stand in line to talk to an agent. Fortunately, that's becoming less and less common. [That said, airlines and Amtrak DO need to have assistance available for those times when self-service technology isn't sufficient or has a technical glitch.]


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## Cina (May 21, 2015)

I sure I'm in the minority, but I prefer talking to a real person and transacting that way. I prefer to book Amtrak trips by calling a real agent. When I have a question about a service I'm paying for, I prefer to call and talk about it instead of emailing. (The exception being time warner cable, since even the local numbers transfer me to an overseas call center) Talking to a real person gives me a feeling of accountability on the businesses' part.

That being said, I can see how automation could make boarding processes more smooth.


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## Headache (May 26, 2015)

I'm with you on this Cina, including Comcasts terribad 3rd party customer service. Then again I'm a special needs traveler and trying to get things done through an automated service is a test of patience and of not breaking whatever electronic device I'm using until I can get a real person on the other end.


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