# Northern Ontario bridge closure halts cross-Canada road traffic



## CHamilton (Jan 10, 2016)

Northern Ontario bridge closure halts cross-Canada traffic


> Damage to the newly constructed Nipigon River Bridge in Northwestern Ontario could have a serious impact on Canadian travel.
> 
> Located near Red Rock east of Thunder Bay on Highway 17, an expansion joint on the bridge has failed due to recent cold snap, closing the highway in both directions at its western intersection with Highway 11.
> 
> ...


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 11, 2016)

A very long road detour is available by crossing into the US at Sault St. Marie.....then along the south shore of Lake Superior through Duluth and into Thunder Bay. Other than that.....there are no roads between Ontario and western Canada. The CPR transcontinental mainline is on an adjacent bridge and the CN mainline is to the north


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 11, 2016)

One lane has reopened with pilot vehicles:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/nipigon-bridge-transcanada-update-1.3398207

Certainly shows how vulnerable we are when there is only this one road bridge at the Nipigon River plus CPR and CNR mainlines that connects eastern and western Canada.

There are no other roads….not even a gravel road or dirt logging road.


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## willem (Jan 11, 2016)

Northwest Ontario? It looks like south central Ontario on Google Maps. It must be a population-weighted direction rather than an area-weighted direction.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 11, 2016)

willem said:


> Northwest Ontario? It looks like south central Ontario on Google Maps. It must be a population-weighted direction rather than an area-weighted direction.


No.....the bridge is in northwestern Ontario about 120km NE of Thunder Bay on the Trans Canada Highway.

Northern Ontario - Southern Ontario is divided roughly at a line passing through Sudbury

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/


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## willem (Jan 11, 2016)

As I said, a division based on population rather than area.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 12, 2016)

willem said:


> As I said, a division based on population rather than area.


Then please explain how you arrived at the definition of this area as being in south central Ontario when looking at a map?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 12, 2016)

It looks south central to me also on Googles maps. What are we missing?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nipigon+River+Bridge,+Nipigon,+ON+P0T,+Canada/@49.9993801,-82.7957603,4.83z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4d5c15525dcc685f:0xc7cc51f8d181c772


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 12, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It looks south central to me also on Googles maps. What are we missing?
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nipigon+River+Bridge,+Nipigon,+ON+P0T,+Canada/@49.9993801,-82.7957603,4.83z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4d5c15525dcc685f:0xc7cc51f8d181c772


Then how would you describe Windsor (across from Detroit) approx. 700 km south of Nipigon? I realize Ontario is certainly irregularly shaped but the portion of VIA's corridor west of Toronto to London and Windsor is in Southwestern Ontario.


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## willem (Jan 12, 2016)

Thanks, Betty. Since you chimed in when I was challenged, I'll try to handle the question addressed to you.

If I'm stepping on your toes, NS VIA Fan, I apologize. You seem to be imbued with a near-religious fervor in your discussion of directions, and I'm only describing what I see on the map. Ontario is a big province, and the north-south dividing line seems to be at about 50° N, which is north of the bridge under discussion. You assert that the dividing line is at Sudbury, which is more in line with my comment that the directions are based on population rather than geography. It is not surprising that a highway map would focus on populated areas, but that does not change geographic areas.

To answer your question, if I had reason to describe the location of Windsor, which I will accept is about 700 km south of Nipigon, I would say it is across from Detroit. Again, I don't mean to offend, but that is my south-of-the-border take on it. If I was restricted to reference points in Ontario, I might say it is at the northwest end of a population peninsula that is at the south end of a population peninsula in the southeast of Ontario. Yes, that is tedious.

I'm not a local. If locals want to distort geographic directions, and they understand what they mean when they do, that's great. When locals tell non-locals that a place south of the geographic center and just barely west of a line parallel to the north-south borders is in the northwest of the province, the locals should expect non-locals to raise an eyebrow.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 12, 2016)

Well I hope you're never lost is the Nipigon area and say you're in South Central Ontario......they'd be looking for you in the Toronto area.


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## jis (Jan 12, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Well I hope you're never lost is the Nipigon area and say you're in South Central Ontario......they'd be looking for you in the Toronto area.


That is exactly what I was thinking. No amount of arguing here is going to change common usage in Canada to describe or refer to various parts of Ontario. It is what it is.


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## Ryan (Jan 12, 2016)

I don't see population having anything to do with it. Looking at a map, there is a narrow spot in what I would call the middle of Ontario, on a line running NNE/SSW running through North Bay.

I'd call anything north of that line northern Ontario, but that's just me.


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## willem (Jan 12, 2016)

De gustibus. I would tend to use the approximate center. For the contiguous United States, there is a narrow spot from Lake Erie to Chesapeake Bay. I wouldn't call everything west of that western US, but I recognize some people do think that way.


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## railiner (Jan 13, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Certainly shows how vulnerable we are when there is only this one road bridge at the Nipigon River plus CPR and CNR mainlines that connects eastern and western Canada.
> 
> There are no other roads….not even a gravel road or dirt logging road.


A situation like this can help elevate the importance of maintaining the railways as an alternate means of transportation....

If the highway bridge had suffered a worse mishap that might have taken it out entirely, all sorts of scenario's come to mind....

Such as running a shuttle passenger train to maintain a vital link....or perhaps some sort of emergency "auto or truck train" that would ferry vehicles across the river gap, until such time as a highway bridge could be restored....


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## greatcats (Jan 13, 2016)

Impressive Statistic Dept: In line with the previous discussion of directions and sections of Ontario, do you realize that province on top of the US extends from New York State to Minnesota ?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 14, 2016)

greatcats said:


> Impressive Statistic Dept: In line with the previous discussion of directions and sections of Ontario, do you realize that province on top of the US extends from New York State....


.....at almost the Vermont line.

It will take about 36 hours to cross Ontario by train....a VIA corridor run to Toronto and then the Canadian.

>>>>>

Pelee Island is about as far south as Dunsmuir, California....extending north to Hudson Bay at the latitude of Wrangell, Alaska.

Ontario Northland Railways Polar Bar Express will get you to Moosonee but dont expect to see Polar Bears (youll have to take VIA to Churchill, Manitoba)

http://www.ontarionorthland.ca/en/train-schedules-and-fares


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## fairviewroad (Jan 14, 2016)

railiner said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Certainly shows how vulnerable we are when there is only this one road bridge at the Nipigon River plus CPR and CNR mainlines that connects eastern and western Canada.
> ...


Or an actual ferry across the river, depending on time of year and river levels. I realize this would require a suitable boarding location on either side, but then so would a train-shuttle. I suspect none of this would happen, though. The most realistic option might be a pedestrian ferry for locals...while cross-country traffic would simply have to divert through the US.


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## neroden (Jan 16, 2016)

It is often forgotten that Manitoba and the western & northern part of Ontario are less populated and have more wilderness than British Columbia, Alberta, or Saskatchewan, and have fewer roads than the Yukon.

I don't know why, honestly. It's a little odd. There must be some history there.

The route through Nipigon is the CP mainline, sponsored by the government to unify Canada (there was actual fear that British Columbia would secede). It's disgraceful that later governments allowed it to lose passenger service.


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## CHamilton (Jan 17, 2016)

neroden said:


> The route through Nipigon is the CP mainline, sponsored by the government to unify Canada (there was actual fear that British Columbia would secede).





> Vancouver Island and British Columbia had been promised a rail link as a precondition of their entry into confederation in 1871....In 1874, British Columbia threatened to withdraw from Confederation. Queen Victoria was petitioned by Premier Walkem for relief from failure to delivery the promise of a railroad to Victoria. Carnarvon Terms


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