# Summer rental car rates



## Michigan Mom

Is anyone else noticing that car rental rates are unusually high this summer... whether it's a one way rental or returning to same location, I'm getting $100 a day for the smallest vehicle.  
Yes, there's not a train option to consider.


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## TheVig

Yep. They are high. Pent up demand. Also many rental agencies dumped a lot of their fleet last year during the pandemic, creating shortages.

A coworker last week spent almost $200 a day on a Toyota Yaris. It was a business trip, so luckily he gets reimbursed for it.

A couple of weeks back, another coworker landed at the airport, and they didn’t have the car he was supposed to get. Only thing available was a small box truck. LOL. Told them to go pound sand and used Uber and Lyft instead.


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## JayPea

Michigan Mom said:


> Is anyone else noticing that car rental rates are unusually high this summer... whether it's a one way rental or returning to same location, I'm getting $100 a day for the smallest vehicle.
> Yes, there's not a train option to consider.


I took a combo Amtrak/rental car trip last week (Spokane to East Glacier Park round trip via Amtrak and rental car at East Glacier so I could spend 3 or 4 days exploring Montana) and it was $130/day. Fortunately that was with unlimited mileage; I put about 1600 miles on the rental car. At what would have been 25 cents/mile, that would have been a huge chunk of change.


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## railiner

Sounds to me, like it might be more cost-effective to just buy (and then resell), an old "beater" to get around in, for extended stays...
But then, the prices of those have also risen dramatically, of late.....


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## Rasputin

This sounds like a great year to plan a trip to places where you do not need to rent a car. But with prices going up all around, maybe it is just a good year to stay home also (for the second year in a row).


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## MARC Rider

Rasputin said:


> This sounds like a great year to plan a trip to places where you do not need to rent a car. But with prices going up all around, maybe it is just a good year to stay home also (for the second year in a row).


I'm not staying home, but it's another road trip year for us. Fortunately I got all the hotel reservations lined up before the prices started spiking. (Though hotels in the northeast are disgustingly expensive every summer, I actually snagged a couple with decent prices.) And we're spending the week up in the cabin in Maine, which doesn't cost us anything.


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## jiml

I need a car rental in September and it's not only the high prices but the lack of selection. One vendor had 3 or 4 options where there previously would have been a dozen or more - and all at high daily rates _before airport fees and taxes_. The smartest thing to do seems to book but not pre-pay, locking in availability and rate in hopes both improve before the date.


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## willem

jiml said:


> The smartest thing to do seems to book but not pre-pay, locking in availability and rate in hopes both improve before the date.


Some posters on FlyerTalk have complained that rental agencies are not honoring reservations, but telling customers the price has gone up when the customer arrives to rent the car.


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## jiml

Heard the same thing. I somehow can't see a major name at an airport doing this, but it's a jungle right now. I wonder if using an external agent (e.g. Expedia) would provide some protection. I made a reservation with Hertz - paying a little more but have status, so hoping for the best.


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## Ziv

I priced my car rental for 3 days in Greenville SC early last week and they were all starting at $375, for 3 days! Ouch. I knew that the car rental companies had deferred purchasing newer cars due to low demand and now that demand was rising, supply was short so prices went up. So the supply/demand equation in action. Irritating but understandable.
I went back and booked it today with Hertz (not a budget car rental agency but I get points on my United card) and the total charge is $279 including taxes, fees but no collision insurance.
So maybe, just maybe, the rental car shortage is easing a bit. In one location. Possibly. 
LOL!


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## Anderson

railiner said:


> Sounds to me, like it might be more cost-effective to just buy (and then resell), an old "beater" to get around in, for extended stays...
> But then, the prices of those have also risen dramatically, of late.....


I think someone did this (and got some publicity for it) in the UK a few years back, when train tickets there got stupidly expensive. The biggest issue is dealing with registering it.

Depending on the timeframe involved, I half-expect to hear stories before too long of someone buying a beater under a fake name, driving it for a few days on the old plates and a bill of sale, and then just dumping it at a salvage yard (or leaving it at the airport on the way out) without ever registering the sale. To be clear, I am _not _suggesting that anyone do this (not least because of possible liability issues, to say nothing of illegality), but I can _easily_ see someone doing that rather than fork over $1000+ for a rental or deal with all of the paperwork with buying the car.



willem said:


> Some posters on FlyerTalk have complained that rental agencies are not honoring reservations, but telling customers the price has gone up when the customer arrives to rent the car.


I sense this is going to end in a class-action suit or two (e.g. rich lawyers and _probably_ vouchers for the affected folks). This is a lousy position for folks to be in on the receiving end, but it reeks of fraud.

One suggestion has been to prepay for the rental, on the grounds that the rental company is probably far more likely to try and get you a car rather than do a refund.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

Bluntly, this is a part (albeit _only_ a part) of why I've been driving rather than taking the train (let alone flying). It occurs to me that an airline could probably grab some business if they were able to guarantee your rental car when you get there.


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## Anderson

Ziv said:


> I priced my car rental for 3 days in Greenville SC early last week and they were all starting at $375, for 3 days! Ouch. I knew that the car rental companies had deferred purchasing newer cars due to low demand and now that demand was rising, supply was short so prices went up. So the supply/demand equation in action. Irritating but understandable.
> I went back and booked it today with Hertz (not a budget car rental agency but I get points on my United card) and the total charge is $279 including taxes, fees but no collision insurance.
> So maybe, just maybe, the rental car shortage is easing a bit. In one location. Possibly.
> LOL!


My guess is that it's more that the computer's demand model got a little bit froggy trying to milk the situation and they ended up with more availability. Don't forget that Amtrak's roomettes used to come down close to the last minute; with prices in the stratosphere I wouldn't be surprised if rental car companies are doing some of this (raising the price in advance, in an attempt to ration demand, and then cutting the price if the cars don't move at the jacked-up rates).


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## MikefromCrete

Rent a car companies are the worst. They ask your preference for the type of car you want, but there's no guarantee they'll actually have that type of car available when you arrive at the office -- and this is in the best of times. A friend of mine reserved a "large size car" for a trip from his home in Texas to Florida. When he arrived at the Enterprise office, he was told no large size cars were available and was offered a pick up truck! Now this did happen in Texas so maybe they felt it was an upgrade. The Enterprise employee suggested he stop at Enterprise offices along his route to see if they had the desired large car. He eventually got a Jeep SUV, but really why do rent a car companies make a big deal about choosing a type of car when they frequently can't accommodate the request.


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## Bob Dylan

I have a friend that works for Hertz @ the Austin Airport, and he told me that after Hertz Sold off most of their Cars last year,once demand started increasing as travel resumed, they jacked up their rates which is Supply and Demand" in action.

Now that Austin is once again setting records @ our too small airport( TSA warms travelers to be @ the Airport 3-4 Hours before your Flight!), Rental Car Rates are as much as $200 a day, Gasoline Prices are rising Daily, and lots of travelers with Reservations are arriving only to be told, sorry, No Cars like you booked are available, but we can "Upgrade" you for X amount of $$$.

Sounds like what Amtrak is doing on the Western Trains, while Southwest Airlines is filling their Flights with "Deals".( I just booked AUS-SFO for $159 and AUS-CHI for $109 on their 50% off Deal/ RTs!!!)

I understand Supply and Demand, but Amtrak is leaving $$$ on the table by refusing to add Cars to their Western LD Trains which are mostly running 90-100% Full.The current Bucket for 1 in a Roomette AUS-CHI is $772( when available) and AUS-EMY is $1762!!!! OUCH!!!


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## Devil's Advocate

Michigan Mom said:


> Is anyone else noticing that car rental rates are unusually high this summer...


$100+ per day for a subcompact is the going rate in my experience, and that assumes they actually have a car ready when you show up. Reports of dirty interiors, delayed maintenance, and empty lots are rather common at the moment. You'd think at least one chain would have been in better shape but last I checked Avis owned Budget, Hertz owned Dollar and Thrifty, Enterprise owned Alamo and National, and the others had a distinctly gray market feel to them.



railiner said:


> Sounds to me, like it might be more cost-effective to just buy (and then resell), an old "beater" to get around in, for extended stays...


I've seen this done on television shows like _Top Gear_ but I'm unenthusiastic about spending my vacation hours looking for a used car of unknown dependability and getting it inspected, registered, insured, plated, and stickered in my name. Since I don't have a staff of fixers it seems like an excessive level of risk to me.


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## Brian Battuello

As has been reported extensive elsewhere, it takes ridiculously long to get new railroad cars built, and a handful are out for refurbishing. I doubt Amtrak has many sleepers just sitting around in yards.


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## Asher

I booked a car from a small town in Indiana,( Newcastle). I was driving to Ashville Ohio. When I went to pickup the car they bring out a real beater Crown Vic. I had no choice but to hit the highway with it and it actually turned out to be a great car for the trip.


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## Bob Dylan

Brian Battuello said:


> As has been reported extensive elsewhere, it takes ridiculously long to get new railroad cars built, and a handful are out for refurbishing. I doubt Amtrak has many sleepers just sitting around in yards.


Too bad Amtrak didn't have any time to rehab,fix Rail Cars during the past year since Rail Travel was @ record levels and they ran the Trains day and Night Non-Stop, No wait-----


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## Bob Dylan

anumberone said:


> I booked a car from a small town in Indiana,( Newcastle). I was driving to Ashville Ohio. When I went to pickup the car they bring out a real beater Crown Vic. I had no choice but to hit the highway with it and it actually turned out to be a great car for the trip.


Alpine,TX ( Sunset Ltd)Mom and Pop Rentals are Beaters, but they run and the Price is Right!


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## Michigan Mom

really appreciate the replies. So that's where things are this are this summer with rentals. I'm not smart enough to know how to buy a Beater and make that work.


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## jiml

anumberone said:


> I booked a car from a small town in Indiana,( Newcastle). I was driving to Ashville Ohio. When I went to pickup the car they bring out a real beater Crown Vic. I had no choice but to hit the highway with it and it actually turned out to be a great car for the trip.


And if it was any dark color or plain white, a lot of people slowed down when they saw you coming.


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## jiml

Michigan Mom said:


> really appreciate the replies. So that's where things are this are this summer with rentals. I'm not smart enough to know how to buy a Beater and make that work.


If you're a Costco member, check their rates. For a couple of the major rental companies they were better than the companies themselves were offering (Enterprise and Avis IIRC). I was able to leverage a preferred rate and discount code with Hertz for a slight saving over all of them, but still paying over $400 for a 3-day rental in September.


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## Deni

I have not been getting bad rates in Chicago at National Car Rental. I've usually been able to get a car for about $50-60/day. I've got a reservation for a 7-passenger van for a road trip later this summer that I'll have for just under $400/week including taxes. Used a suburban location to reserve that one, using the airport or the downtown Enterprise locations would have been a lot more.


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## jiml

Deni said:


> I've got a reservation for a 7-passenger van for a road trip later this summer that I'll have for just under $400/week including taxes. Used a suburban location to reserve that one, using the airport or the downtown Enterprise locations would have been a lot more.


That's a really good rate! Minivans showed in a couple of my recent searches at $400 a day or more (not that I needed one). Obviously there's a huge regional disparity.


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## Dakota 400

Summer, 2019, needing to rent a car in Anchorage for several days. Much research was done. A "loyalty" member of Hertz included in the pricing. Hertz was the most expensive of them all.

Surprising to me, Avis had the best price for the size of car that I wanted: a Buick Verano (or its like). Arriving at ANC, no such model/make was available, but, for the same price, I was given a brand new Ford Focus with less than 2000 miles. This was my first SUV that I have ever driven. Never thought that I would like such a car. But, after several hundred of miles, I liked it. I was in the market for a new car and had been very disappointed with what I was finding. That Ford Focus gave me a several hundred miles test drive for such a vehicle. My experience led me to buying my 2020 Buick Envision with which I am quite pleased. 

I must say that I was quite impressed with my experience with Avis at ANC. I need to rent a car infrequently. But, their service, friendliness, the condition of the car, ease of pick-up and return: I'll be back!


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## Night Ranger

anumberone said:


> I booked a car from a small town in Indiana,( Newcastle). I was driving to Ashville Ohio. When I went to pickup the car they bring out a real beater Crown Vic. I had no choice but to hit the highway with it and it actually turned out to be a great car for the trip.


One of the absolute best travel vehicles we have ever owned was a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis, the Crown Vic's cousin. The other one was my beloved 1972 VW Type II Westphalia but that's an entirely different story. 

Those land yachts were built for taking long trips with their smooth ride and plenty of horsepower. Body on frame construction was great for road dampening and gas mileage was not that bad. We had reached that stage in our lives where we enjoyed our creature comforts especially on long road trips. Parking and tight traffic were different issues but we'd still have one if Ford had not discontinued them years ago. As long as your rented Crown Vic started, ran, and stopped you were good to go.


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## Night Ranger

jiml said:


> And if it was any dark color or plain white, a lot of people slowed down when they saw you coming.


True that. Our older son owned a 1998 Crown Vic with the police interceptor package that he bought cheap at an auto auction. It was white, had both spotlights and a push bar on the front, and screamed COP CAR. As a joke I popped the plugs for the antenna holes and installed some junk CB radio antennas. Until you saw his license plate you would swear it was a cop car. "Cop motor, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks, . . ." If you've seen The Blues Brothers you know the lines even if their car was a Dodge.


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## MARC Rider

Dakota 400 said:


> Arriving at ANC, no such model/make was available, but, for the same price, I was given a brand new Ford Focus with less than 2000 miles. This was my first SUV that I have ever driven.



Do you mean a Ford Escape? I own a Ford Focus, and while it's a perfectly good car, I would not consider it an SUV by any stretch of the imagination. By the way, Ford doesn't sell the Focus in the US any more, but they were still selling a few back in 2019.


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## MARC Rider

In all of my years of renting cars, I don't think I've ever been able to specify the make and model of a rental. In fact, I consider myself lucky if I get within one category of what I order. Fortunately, this usually means an upgrade. My favorites are from the Enterprise in South Boston, where I call a day or two before and remind them that I want my compact SUV with 4WD or all-wheel drive. When I get there, instead of getting the RAV4 type "compact" SUV, I've gotten a Mercedes one time, and a Range-Rover the other at no extra charge. But I'm picky on the 4WD because they once rented me an SUV with 2 wheel drive that got stuck at the bottom of a slope on an icy driveway. 

On the other hand, when I rented for official travel, we had to order the cheapest smallest car unless there were a lot of people in the party. And while the rental agencies sometimes gave us upgrades for free, usually, they obliged us. Thus, I was once stuck driving from Baltimore to Ohio in the absolute smallest roller skate sold by Chevrolet, and this over the Pennsylvania Turnpike through a thunderstorm and some pretty windy weather.


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## Bob Dylan

MARC Rider said:


> In all of my years of renting cars, I don't think I've ever been able to specify the make and model of a rental. In fact, I consider myself lucky if I get within one category of what I order. Fortunately, this usually means an upgrade. My favorites are from the Enterprise in South Boston, where I call a day or two before and remind them that I want my compact SUV with 4WD or all-wheel drive. When I get there, instead of getting the RAV4 type "compact" SUV, I've gotten a Mercedes one time, and a Range-Rover the other at no extra charge. But I'm picky on the 4WD because they once rented me an SUV with 2 wheel drive that got stuck at the bottom of a slope on an icy driveway.
> 
> On the other hand, when I rented for official travel, we had to order the cheapest smallest car unless there were a lot of people in the party. And while the rental agencies sometimes gave us upgrades for free, usually, they obliged us. Thus, I was once stuck driving from Baltimore to Ohio in the absolute smallest roller skate sold by Chevrolet, and this over the Pennsylvania Turnpike through a thunderstorm and some pretty windy weather.


As a retired Government hand also, this sure rings True!


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## flitcraft

We rented a car at National Airport from Hertz and prepaid. Yesterday we arrived post CL trip and picked it up no problem. Their garage was close to empty, though, and we were told to pick either available car from the President's Circle area, although we are not PC members.. I had been advised to prepay in advance, since the car rental companies hate having to refund customers and will save their cars for high level elite customers, which we are not, and prepayers. Worked for us...


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## Michigan Mom

I wonder how they (the car companies) feel about third party discounters like Priceline, Hotwire, Kayak, Expedia etc. That's where I'm seeing the lowest rates. On Priceline, you have to put in credit card info to reserve, and supposedly not charged until pickup.


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## Dakota 400

MARC Rider said:


> Do you mean a Ford Escape?



Yes. Thanks for correcting me.


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## west point

2 items. 
1. If possible do not rent at airport and save those franchise fees. Find locations that do not have franchise fees.
2. Do what my daughter did. Had a very long trip for 1 month. Decided to buy a good used car. Transferred insurance to car and stored regular car. Drove all over for 5 weeks and then sold car for $200 less than purchase. That saved 12,000+ miles on her regular car. Only one minor problem for rental substitute.


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## Bob Dylan

I've never rented a Car with an Amtrak Package( Ticket/ Car/Hotel) but have rented from Hertz to get Amtrak Bonus AGR Points during " Deals".

Wondering if anyone is getting cheaper prices on their car rental by doing this?( usually Hotels were Cheaper when booked thru a Travel Site or Directly with the Hotel)


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## Rasputin

My daughter had a good friend who worked for Hertz. He would get us wonderful deals on cars. Maybe that is why they went bankrupt.


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## Brian Battuello

FWIW, IBM had an amazingly sweet deal with Hertz, and employees could go in on it for personal use as long as they used the right code.


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## Devil's Advocate

Brian Battuello said:


> IBM had an amazingly sweet deal with Hertz, and employees could go in on it for personal use as long as they used the right code.


If you have a corporate travel account that is definitely the way to go right now. Prices range from half to a third as much thanks to negotiated rates.


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## Michigan Mom

Update for this thread. Hertz left us high and dry, as the saying goes. Booked a few weeks in advance, called to confirm, called again to reconfirm the day before, on the actual day, no cars available anywhere in SE Michigan. 
Travel is really unpredictable right now.


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## Bob Dylan

Michigan Mom said:


> Update for this thread. Hertz left us high and dry, as the saying goes. Booked a few weeks in advance, called to confirm, called again to reconfirm the day before, on the actual day, no cars available anywhere in SE Michigan.
> Travel is really unpredictable right now.


Wonder if they're renting them.out to the first arrivals and leaving later arrivals SOL like yall?

I have a friend that works for Hertz @ the Austin Airport, and he says that all their cars are booked Daily, and people with reservations are landing and finding No Cars to be had! 

We have horrible Public Transit here!


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## Michigan Mom

Well, I think what they are doing is accepting reservations for cars they know they don't have. I mean you're offered a choice of vehicles, which is cute. When it gets to day of travel, they parcel out what stock they have to whoever paid the most, and everyone else is SOL. I've emailed their Customer Service twice and been ignored. This is basically fraud, no, let me restate, it is completely and totally fraud. It's a phantom reservation and will likely not be honored. Tell your friend that works at Hertz that they are messing with peoples' lives and I will never do business with that company again. Not ever, ever, ever. Hertz declared bankruptcy during the pandemic and has apparently emerged in a strong financial position, so spare me any tales of woe, Hertz, about selling off cars or laying off employees. You were supposed to use PPP funds to retain employees. Customers and employees get screwed, some execs probably got bonuses.


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## Bob Dylan

Michigan Mom said:


> Well, I think what they are doing is accepting reservations for cars they know they don't have. I mean you're offered a choice of vehicles, which is cute. When it gets to day of travel, they parcel out what stock they have to whoever paid the most, and everyone else is SOL. I've emailed their Customer Service twice and been ignored. This is basically fraud, no, let me restate, it is completely and totally fraud. It's a phantom reservation and will likely not be honored. Tell your friend that works at Hertz that they are messing with peoples' lives and I will never do business with that company again. Not ever, ever, ever. Hertz declared bankruptcy during the pandemic and has apparently emerged in a strong financial position, so spare me any tales of woe, Hertz, about selling off cars or laying off employees. You were supposed to use PPP funds to retain employees. Customers and employees get screwed, some execs probably got bonuses.


Are there any Lawyers interested in a Class Action Lawsuit advertising?


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## flitcraft

Bob Dylan said:


> Are there any Lawyers interested in a Class Action Lawsuit advertising?


Sadly, a class action lawsuit is unlikely to work for this situation. In cases where the damages are relatively low--under a thousand dollars per victim--the main benefit of class actions are to prevent that particular bad behavior from occurring in the future. (Which is why I am in favor of class actions even when class members get small compensation. As the old saying goes, steal a million dollars from someone and you go to jail, steal ten dollars from a million people, and it's just business...)

Here, Hertz will claim that the pandemic caused unforeseeable problems for them--the lockdown drove down car rentals to a tiny trickle, but used car prices skyrocketed since nobody wanted to use public transit. Naturally, given a cash flow from rentals of about zero, Hertz shed its cars into the booming used car market with the intent to buy new ones when things improved. But by then, there was a computer chip shortage making many new cars unobtainable. So...this is why the rental car garages are ghost towns and only very gradually filling back up.

Should they have still continued to have reservations that appeared to be available online? Of course not. That was and is indefensible. But a class action suit can't award appropriate damages to individuals, since each person's out of pocket expenses will differ due to their circumstances--and class action suits are only allowable when damages are consistent across the class members.

A better solution for individuals being screwed by companies like Hertz is to take them to small claims court in your jurisdiction. Easy, cheap, you don't need (and usually can't even have) a lawyer. Argue fraud and breach of contract, have receipts if possible for expenses, and add a claim for money for lost opportunity, vacation days that got wasted, etc. I'd ask for a thousand dollars over provable expenses. Hertz will likely default and not bother to show up, you'll probably get your judgment then automatically.


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## me_little_me

flitcraft said:


> Should they have still continued to have reservations that appeared to be available online? Of course not. That was and is indefensible. But a class action suit can't award appropriate damages to individuals, since each person's out of pocket expenses will differ due to their circumstances--and class action suits are only allowable when damages are consistent across the class members.


Not true about consistent across class members. Look at stock class actions. Each person has to list the shares they bought and sold (along with price and dates) of the stock of the sued company and what they get is their portion of their "loss" based on how many people file and what the total payout is.


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## flitcraft

Without blundering too far into Class Action Forum territory, determining the damages in stock class actions is a simple matter of arithmetic. What a class action suit against a rental car company would have to show to get a class certified is that common questions of law and fact predominate over individual questions, and in addition that the class action procedure is the most efficient way to resolve the dispute in question. Given the high hurdles to class certification erected by the US Supreme Court, I still think that the damages questions would be fatal to class certification. The consequences of not having a car available would differ for each plaintiff--did they miss a funeral, or a wedding, or a graduation, or a family picnic, or a business meeting, or a job interview, or a non-refundable flight, or a trip through Glacier National Park, etc etc etc. Was an alternative vehicle or date offered, and why was it insufficient in this case? Those damages questions would all turn on the specific facts of each case. So, again, I am skeptical that a class action would even get certified let alone prevail.

But there is another reason that I think that small claims court would be a better route to pursue. Federal court judges as a group have become increasingly conservative and pro-business in recent years. On the other hand, state trial judges and magistrates that regularly hear small claims cases are more likely to understand that what might objectively seem like 'small potatoes' cases affect people's lives and deserve justice just as much as the big-bucks cases. Not only that, but the delay in getting a class action certified, then through discovery, then onto a trial date and a potential appeal, means that compensation, even if it comes, isn't coming for years. Small claims courts will issue the mandate for a judgment in a matter of weeks when you win.


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## Michigan Mom

Flitcraft, thanks for posting the excellent advice as maybe others could benefit... this is an extremely stressful time which is partly why I needed a rental in the first place. Would love to stick it to them for $1000 and the sense of satisfaction but I just plain don't have the time. No, Hertz escapes cleanly. I will hate them for the rest of my life.



flitcraft said:


> Sadly, a class action lawsuit is unlikely to work for this situation. In cases where the damages are relatively low--under a thousand dollars per victim--the main benefit of class actions are to prevent that particular bad behavior from occurring in the future. (Which is why I am in favor of class actions even when class members get small compensation. As the old saying goes, steal a million dollars from someone and you go to jail, steal ten dollars from a million people, and it's just business...)
> 
> Here, Hertz will claim that the pandemic caused unforeseeable problems for them--the lockdown drove down car rentals to a tiny trickle, but used car prices skyrocketed since nobody wanted to use public transit. Naturally, given a cash flow from rentals of about zero, Hertz shed its cars into the booming used car market with the intent to buy new ones when things improved. But by then, there was a computer chip shortage making many new cars unobtainable. So...this is why the rental car garages are ghost towns and only very gradually filling back up.
> 
> Should they have still continued to have reservations that appeared to be available online? Of course not. That was and is indefensible. But a class action suit can't award appropriate damages to individuals, since each person's out of pocket expenses will differ due to their circumstances--and class action suits are only allowable when damages are consistent across the class members.
> 
> A better solution for individuals being screwed by companies like Hertz is to take them to small claims court in your jurisdiction. Easy, cheap, you don't need (and usually can't even have) a lawyer. Argue fraud and breach of contract, have receipts if possible for expenses, and add a claim for money for lost opportunity, vacation days that got wasted, etc. I'd ask for a thousand dollars over provable expenses. Hertz will likely default and not bother to show up, you'll probably get your judgment then automatically.


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## OBS

Michigan Mom said:


> Flitcraft, thanks for posting the excellent advice as maybe others could benefit... this is an extremely stressful time which is partly why I needed a rental in the first place. Would love to stick it to them for $1000 and the sense of satisfaction but I just plain don't have the time. No, Hertz escapes cleanly. I will hate them for the rest of my life.


Sorry about your Hertz experience, but wishing you all the best with your challenges...


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## willem

flitcraft said:


> [...] Hertz will likely default and not bother to show up, you'll probably get your judgment then automatically.


But how does one then collect? If the Hertz franchise in Tucson (for example) doesn't have a car for me, do I need to go back to Tucson for a small claims action, or can I go after the franchise in my area? If I need to go back to Tucson, and I do so, won't the Hertz representatives who didn't bother to show up just tell me to leave if I walk into the office?

Thank you for the thoughtful discussion.


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## flitcraft

willem said:


> But how does one then collect? If the Hertz franchise in Tucson (for example) doesn't have a car for me, do I need to go back to Tucson for a small claims action, or can I go after the franchise in my area? If I need to go back to Tucson, and I do so, won't the Hertz representatives who didn't bother to show up just tell me to leave if I walk into the office?
> 
> Thank you for the thoughtful discussion.



You can sue in small claims court in your own jurisdiction, no matter where the car rental issue occurred, because you made your reservation while in your home jurisdiction. And, because Hertz does business in your jurisdiction (either has live offices there or accepts reservations there) Hertz cannot argue that you need to sue somewhere else. Your local small claims court will almost certainly have the information you need about how to serve the defendant--Hertz in our example. This information will likely be online these days, but may also be in the form of an information pamphlet. Because lawyers aren't allowed in most small claims courts (unless a lawyer happens to be the person suing or being sued!) the small claims courts provide plenty of advice and assistance to consumers using them. 

And I wouldn't worry about Hertz refusing to do business with you again. The cost of keeping track of the folks who they screw over who get compensation as a result exceed the 'revenge' factor, I'm pretty sure. Plus, if you decide to do business with them later on, they will probably be happy to make a profit from you as with any other customer.


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## willem

Thank you, *flitcraft*. Since you answered a question I didn't ask, I worry that I didn't phrase correctly the question I meant to ask.

If someone sues Hertz in small claims court and gets a default judgement, how does that someone collect? My question about visiting a Hertz location and being told to leave was not related to renting again, it was related to collecting the judgement. Why wouldn't the same Hertz representative who declined to appear in court just tell me to go away?

And now I have another question. I live near the border between two states. The larger city in the area is in the other state. If I make a reservation in my state but the nearest small claims court is in the other state, can I sue in that other state?


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## Just-Thinking-51

My local community has a court room. You can use the closest one to you, in the state that you live. So town or county is where you file. Of course read your term of service it might require mediation so that even easier to do. Fun fact once you file (fee needed) the other side has to pay a fee right there and then too. Most companies are hope you are like Michigan Mom and too busy to do it. It’s really easy the second time.


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## SwedeC

Brian Battuello said:


> FWIW, IBM had an amazingly sweet deal with Hertz, and employees could go in on it for personal use as long as they used the right code.


Still exists for employees and retirees, but not as good a deal as in the past. Must return car to renting location.


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## Abe26

AFAIK, you caanot sue a car rental company for not having a car available after you made a reservation, unless you prepaid


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## flitcraft

Abe26 said:


> AFAIK, you caanot sue a car rental company for not having a car available after you made a reservation, unless you prepaid



Well, it's easier if you prepaid--that would make the transaction clearly a contract. But even if you didn't, I would argue consumer expectation--since they ask you what kind of car you want and collect your credit card information upfront, a reasonable consumer would expect that a car in that class ought to be present at the site where you indicated you would pick it up. Again, in small claims court, judges are much more sympathetic to consumer expectation arguments than to technical contract claims. Especially given the huge inconvenience of turning up somewhere expected a car to be there for them. In fact, I would add a claim for promissory estoppel, now that I think of it--a promise was made by the rental company which was intended to and did reasonably result in consumer reliance, and justice requires enforcement of the promise by the rental car company even if technically no contract resulted.


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## flitcraft

willem said:


> If someone sues Hertz in small claims court and gets a default judgement, how does that someone collect?


I can't answer that question in the abstract; it would depend on the processes in your particular jurisdiction. But, as I noted, there should be information online regarding small claims court procedures, including enforcement of judgments. 

I should note that some years ago, I got a judgment in small claims court against Bank of America--I was thinking about whether I should file a lien against their skyscraper in Seattle--and call the local media to watch the fun--but in the end, they paid the default judgment under the local rules. Not as much fun, but more efficient.


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## me_little_me

flitcraft said:


> I can't answer that question in the abstract; it would depend on the processes in your particular jurisdiction. But, as I noted, there should be information online regarding small claims court procedures, including enforcement of judgments.
> 
> I should note that some years ago, I got a judgment in small claims court against Bank of America--I was thinking about whether I should file a lien against their skyscraper in Seattle--and call the local media to watch the fun--but in the end, they paid the default judgment under the local rules. Not as much fun, but more efficient.


There was an issue in California years ago where someone won a small claims court judgement from AT&T back before they broke up, I think. They didn't pay so the sheriff deputy seized their building. It was quickly settled. Made all the news media.

I think all big companies now have arbitration agreements in the contract and on their web pages.


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## Asher

What kind of compensation can you receive after suing a car rental company that compensates for the difficulties you have endured when told, no cars available.


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## flitcraft

anumberone said:


> What kind of compensation can you receive after suing a car rental company that compensates for the difficulties you have endured when told, no cars available.


First off, any money that you were out because of the lack of car provided. Cost of taxis, ubers, etc. Forfeited hotel or plane reservations. Those kind of damages would likely require receipts. But there are also the intangible harms--events missed, days of vacation time wasted, etc. Like pain and suffering, those intangible harms can and must be reduced to a monetary sum--depending on the circumstances and what you can persuade a small claims court judge to award given them.

It doesn't matter that it might not be Hertz' 'fault' that they didn't have a car available. They knew that they were having serious car shortages and continued to take and confirm reservations that people relied on, and their reliance on the confirmed reservation caused them harm. The rental companies could easily have changed their websites to reflect the situation that they fully understood, but customers did not. That's why they should lose.

As for any arbitration agreement in the relationship with Hertz, there may be two reasons why it won't bar recovery for victims. First, it's an affirmative defense to the complaint which has to be raised in small claims court by Hertz, which means they'd have to appear in person to raise it. And they probably won't and will simply default. Second, for it to bind the consumer, the consumer has to have notice of it at the time that they make the reservation. Is the existence of an arbitration requirement provided at the time of the reservation? (I'm too lazy this morning to make a pretend rental to find out, but I don't recall seeing one in previous rental reservations.) My guess is that the arbitration clause, if it does exist, is in the fine print in the form the consumer gets when checking out the car. Since that won't happen when you don't get the car, it can't be enforced in the case of non-delivery of a vehicle.

So as not to hijack this thread any more than I have, let me just say, in my final word on this, that I am a real believer in small claims courts as a mechanism for speedy justice. Depending on the jurisdiction, the amount claimed can be substantial--up to $10,000 in my state of Washington. Too many people simply feel forced to walk away from situations where someone else wronged them because of the time and expense of filing a lawsuit, so the wrongdoer gets away with it. Small claims court was designed to provide a way to get legal redress without the delay and legal expenses of ordinary liltigation.


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## willem

Thank you, *flitcraft*, for your thoughtful contributions to this thread.


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