# VIP Tour of the Boeing Everett Plant



## jis (Dec 18, 2018)

Last week I was out in Seattle at a International Software Standards meeting where I have been chairing a subcommittee for many years. In an idle conversation in the hallway I learned of a small group that was arranging to visit the Boeing Everett Plant as invited guests of Boeing. Needless to say, I found the leader of the group and managed to get myself attached to it. The group was of 7 people which included three non-US citizens, which placed a restriction on our group keeping us from visiting certain parts of the plant doing work for the USAF Tanker Program.

Interestingly, the hotel where the standards meeting was and where we were staying was right next door to the Boeing Renton Plant which assembles 737s. The fuselage is actually manufactured in Wichita KS, and is transported by rail to Renton to be integrated with the wing and other part, which are manufactured at Renton. Outside the window of the meeting rooms we could see lines of 737s awaiting engines or other work parked there in their green protective skin. Upon flight certification they flew out from Renton to Boeing Field for painting a delivery. Every day a few would fly out. Anyway, they do not do tours of that factory VIP or otherwise, hence the trip to Everett an hour away.

Bright and early on Thursday morning our little group assembled in the hotel lobby and was met by the gentleman from Boeing who was hosting the tour. We boarded a Boeing Shuttle Van and headed off to Everett. Upon arrival the first stop was at the Security counter where each of us was checked for identity, citizenship, then photographed for badge and given a genuine Boeing visitor badge with a nice color photo on it. Also, safety instructions and a stricture about no photography whatsoever once security gate is crossed was given. Security cleared we piled into the Van and headed off to our first destination. Naturally each badge was checked at the gate to the compound. The first building we visited was the manufacturing center for the Carbon Fiber Wing for the 777-X.

We were met by our expert tour guide April at the gate and escorted inside. The 777-X wing is different from the 787 wing. The 787 wing is made in sections and then joined together by fastners. The 777-X wing is built as a single unit in two steps. First the two Spars are made by laying out CF (Carbon Fiber) tapes upto two inch thickness on shaping mandrels, one for the front spar and another for the rear spar. The tapes are precision layered out and pasted in place with heat by enormous robots. The CF tapes have to be kept at specific low temperature in refrigerated containers until they are used, and the entire enormous factory is a clean room to avoid contaminating the CF curing process. The employees in the room wear clean room gowns, gloves and such.

Once the mandrels are ready and fully taped up, the two mandrels are moved into this enormous autoclave which is big enough to hold the entire fuselage of a 737. They are baked there for 8 hours, after which out comes the two spars stronger and lighter than Aluminum. At this point the necessary holes are drilled and edges shaped. We saw this process, each step as they were taking place and the final outcome. A similar process is used to fabricate the CF skin of the wing and the stringers. We did not see that part. Once all parts are ready, in the second step, the parts of the wing are put together in its final shape and held in a jig, and this entire assembly goes back into the autoclave to bond all the parts together. At the end of it comes out a wing, left or right, depending on which one was assembled. After full curing thee wings are shipped off to the assembly plant in a different building.

We got to see parts of this process from viewing galleries. Since the factory floor is a clean room we were not taken there. Next we piled back into the Van and were off to the main manufacturing and assembly building which is the largest enclosed single structure in the world, overall 1 km long and half km wide. We entered it through building 40-21, where 747-8 parts are assembled. This is where we got on two Golf Carts and started our tour of the factory floor. We quickly moved on to the 747-8 final assembly, and saw a 747-8F destined for UPS in final assembly a close range, like standing right under its right wing. Our tour guide, April, took a group photo of the group with the 747-8 in the background before we moved on.

Next was the 767 assembly area. Because some of the 767-2C's being manufactured there were destined for the USAF as tankers and we had non-US citizens in our group we were not allowed to get close to anything. We just got to see them from afar.

The assembly bay for the classic 777 (300s) followed, and we got to see the stations soup to nuts. A lot of loud noise of robots riveting parts together.

The following bay that we visited was the one where 777-X prototypes were being put together, and this is a moving station assembly line with nothing bolted down to the floor. We saw the integration of the wings that we saw being manufactured (well not exactly the ones that we saw, but similar ones), being integrated with the mid section, and then the front and the rear fuselage and horizontal and vertical stabs all added together to get the whole plane. The high point was seeing the 12.5' foldable wingtips both in the folded and deployed state. At this point the Director of Manufacturing Floor Logistics, who is in charge of setting up the manufacturing floor stopped by to chat with us.

There were 4 or 5 777-Xs in the process at present, which included the first test flight unit, which we got to see. This is something that has not been seen by anyone outside that building yet in photos or otherwise. There were two static units, one for systems unit testing and other for test to destruction. Turns out that for the 787, even when 155% design load was placed on the wing they were unable to break it so they gave up. Their requirement is to test to 150%. The fourth one is also a flight test unit. They will go through a year long testing process before they are certified and deployed to customers.

Finally we moved onto the 787 assembly bay, and again, another moving station bay with planes in different stages of integration as they move forward in line. There were planes for LOT Polish, Gulf and ANA in final stages of completion. 787s are manufactured in Everett and Charleston, eventually moving mostly to Charleston. This is mostly an assembly line with most parts manufactured by partners and shipped to the plant here for integration.

Well that was pretty much the end of the tour. Took over three hours in all, and was very informative, and dare I say thrilling. We said good bye to April and our host escorted us to the Van and then back to our hotel. All in all it was quite a morning.

On the way back as we were approaching our hotel, BNSF was delivering two 737 fuselages to the Renton plant, which was kind of nice bracket to the end of the tour.


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## PVD (Dec 18, 2018)

back in 2014 a BNSF derail in Montana sent a bunch (3 I think) of 737 fuselages coming from Wichita onto the bank  of the Clark Fork River..lots of great pictures available online...


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## GBNorman (Dec 18, 2018)

A few notes to jishnu's report.

The spur from the BNSF main up to the pkantvis reported to have one of, if not the, steepest grade of any actively used rail line.

Secondly, the 777-300 to my eyes. is the most beautifully proportioned aircraft God and Mr. Boeing's successors ever built. The 747 looks like "a whale with a bump on his head", the 787 looks like a shark (maybe I'm jealous because I don't know when, or if, I'll ever fly on one). A 767 is an aircraft that looks "stubby" and belongs to domestic routes (even if I have four flights overseas on them). My "bubbabro" (good friend from Atlanta) has flown a 757 EWR-DUB; all he said to me was "I'm flying this model plane overseas?".

The "latter day" 737's are nicely proportioned as well, but I do hope "my company" (long BA) can address the flight control issues with the 739.


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## railiner (Dec 18, 2018)

Great report, jis, thanks for posting.   I took a 'public' tour of the Everett plant, when they first started them back in the seventies...


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## ehbowen (Dec 18, 2018)

GBNorman said:


> A few notes to jishnu's report.
> 
> The spur from the BNSF main up to the pkantvis reported to have one of, if not the, steepest grade of any actively used rail line.
> 
> ...


I'm really partial to the 727-200, but of course it's been out of production for almost 35 years. Still and all, it was still in regular service when I worked at Hobby Airport (and earned my private pilot's license) in the late '90s. I got to see them close up, at a distance, head on, profile, dead astern, on the ground, in the air...there's not a bad line anywhere on the entire airframe.

I know this, if I had "fun money" of a few spare $million and the promise of more coming in after having already acquired a short line railroad and PV equipment, I'd be on the line to a used aircraft broker and customizer....


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## jis (Dec 18, 2018)

railiner said:


> Great report, jis, thanks for posting.   I took a 'public' tour of the Everett plant, when they first started them back in the seventies...


Thanks. I have been on the general tour several times, the last time about five years back. But this was an entirely different thing. And of course even in those five years the shop floor technology and of course the manufacturing technology has moved along. I was absolutely floored with all the CF stuff. It is amazing. At the beginning of the tour we were introduced to the various Boeing models and the Everett site in a conference room. There on display were two sample skins of planes, one Aluminum and the other CF of equal physical size. We were allowed to pick them up to get a feel of them. Literally, the CF part felt like it was half the weight of the Aluminum part! Amazing.



ehbowen said:


> I'm really partial to the 727-200, but of course it's been out of production for almost 35 years. Still and all, it was still in regular service when I worked at Hobby Airport (and earned my private pilot's license) in the late '90s. I got to see them close up, at a distance, head on, profile, dead astern, on the ground, in the air...there's not a bad line anywhere on the entire airframe.
> 
> I know this, if I had "fun money" of a few spare $million and the promise of more coming in after having already acquired a short line railroad and PV equipment, I'd be on the line to a used aircraft broker and customizer....


My favorite always has been the 707, though I like the 727 a lot too. Both have the same double tube body cross section. They were of course all manufactured in Renton.

I do like the 777-300 and the 747-8 as far as proportions go. If they had ever built the full out proposed 747-600 that would probably have been even more attractive than the -8. The 777-X is a unique beautiful plane. With its wingtips folded up, it looks like something out of a Sci-Fi story. When it comes out commercially I think it will be called 777-9. And then there will be a stubbier 777-8


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## Maglev (Dec 18, 2018)

Thank you for the report, Jis!  It is surprising how ubiquitous "trains on planes" are here in the Northwest--I saw one last week when we were walking along the Seattle waterfront, and three of them passed us at King Street Station as we were waiting aboard the _Coast Starlight _to depart in May.


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## PRR 60 (Dec 18, 2018)

Great tour and report. Envious!


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## PRR 60 (Dec 18, 2018)

Here are a couple of 737 fuselages passing through Billings MT en route to Renton in 2012.


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## PVD (Dec 18, 2018)

By the middle of next year the 737 line will likely be above 55 a month. The fuselages all come up by train from Spirit in Wichita, so that is not uncommon at all.


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## Dakota 400 (Dec 18, 2018)

What a magnificent and informative report!  I also have done the "general tourist tour" of that Boeing plant and was impressed with what I saw as well as with the Boeing employees whom I met.  As a Boeing shareholder, my faith in the Company was reinforced.

I do prefer to fly on Boeing-made planes rather than Airbus-made planes.  But, I will admit that the A 330 on which I flew from Buenos Aires to Atlanta was a bit more comfortable in Business Class than the 767 on which I flew from Atlanta to Santiago.


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## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

GBNorman said:


> A few notes to jishnu's report.
> 
> The spur from the BNSF main up to the pkantvis reported to have one of, if not the, steepest grade of any actively used rail line.
> 
> ...


I disagree. While the 777s definitely do look nice, I think that the 747 and even 787 are pretty beautiful. The 757 and 767 are indeed ugly as **** though.


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## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

ehbowen said:


> GBNorman said:
> 
> 
> > A few notes to jishnu's report.
> ...


This! The 727 is in my opinion the prettiest airplane Boeing ever built. There’s just something about that particular fuselage and having that engine in the tail - it’s an absolutely stunning plane. It’s a shame I think I’ve only seen one in person in my entire life.

Interestingly, you can actually buy an early model 727 for as low as $600K. It might require some maintenance and refurbishment, but still, that’s not that far above what many PVs go fort.


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## jis (Dec 19, 2018)

GBNorman said:


> A few notes to jishnu's report.
> 
> The spur from the BNSF main up to the pkantvis reported to have one of, if not the, steepest grade of any actively used rail line.


That is the spur to the Everett Plant, right? In the map below, the spur from Mukilteo Sounder Station to the Boeing Everett Facility, along the creek running through the forested area between the two.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Paine+Field/@47.9358525,-122.2866263,3452m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x54900159b82b97fd:0x4e3571c12e342514!8m2!3d47.9075768!4d-122.2808529


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## railiner (Dec 19, 2018)

Wide loads, indeed... 

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9499033,-122.2947602,3a,15y,94.11h,86.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVMqGM201VmvOhVwaAQuJ_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


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## Dakota 400 (Dec 19, 2018)

In my opinion, the 727 was a more roomy plane in Coach than the newer models of Boeing planes.


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## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

jis said:


> When﻿﻿ it comes out commercially I think it will be called 777-9. And then there will be a stubbier 777-8


Yep, they’re going to start off production with the -8 and -9, though I imagine the latter will be much more popular. But it’s highly likely that they will later release a 777-10 “mini-jumbo”, which may be able to carry as much as 500 passengers, and could compete with the A380.


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## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> In my opinion, the 727 was a more roomy plane in Coach than the newer models of Boeing planes.


I imagine that that was just an example of airlines being more comfortable and luxurious back then, rather than an example of the equipment itself being more comfortable.


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## GBNorman (Dec 19, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> In my opinion, the 727 was a more roomy plane in Coach than the newer models of Boeing planes.


But lest we note, the "majors" had largely retired the 727 by, say, '01, which is about when the "Main Cabin" space per passenger started to be "compacted".


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## jis (Dec 19, 2018)

GBNorman said:


> But lest we note, the "majors" had largely retired the 727 by, say, '01, which is about when the "Main Cabin" space per passenger started to be "compacted".


 Yeah. 6 abreast in 727 would be exactly as narrow seats as 6 abreast in 737s since their cabin width is the same, both as the 707. Originally the 707s came out with 5 or 6 abreast, with the quoted capacity based on 6 abreast, but many airlines opted for 5 abreast.It is the 5 abreast in the past that made them seem roomier. However, most 727s had been converted to 6 abreast well before they  were retired. The competion between the 737s and the A320s was based on 6 abreast and that predates the withdrawal of the 727s by many years.

But then again, the further back something is in time the better it looks, since somehow the bad parts seem to fade faster from one memory and nostalgia than the good parts.



cpotisch said:


> Yep, they’re going to start off production with the -8 and -9, though I imagine the latter will be much more popular. But it’s highly likely that they will later release a 777-10 “mini-jumbo”, which may be able to carry as much as 500 passengers, and could compete with the A380.


 The first 777-X version that is coming on the market is the 777-9. That is what all the test aircraft are, and that is what we saw a completed example of. The -8 will follow a few years later. Currently there are no concrete plans for -10, since Boeing probably does not really believe that they need to compete with the A380 anyway..One little factoid I forgot to mention, the diameter of the engine intake for the 777-X engine is a couple of feet larger than that on the current 777s. So a 737 fuselage can actually fit inside the intake, rather than just being equal diameter to the intake.


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## Dakota 400 (Dec 19, 2018)

My first flight was on an American Airlines 727 in Coach, next to the last row of the plane.  It was a 3-3 configuration.  A dinner flight from DAY-LGA (if you can imagine that these days).  I remember not feeling crowded being in the middle seat, leg room was good, and plenty of room to enjoy my dinner which, was also good, as I recall.  Obviously. it was a memorable trip for me.


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## Dakota 400 (Dec 19, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> But it’s highly likely that they will later release a 777-10 “mini-jumbo”, which may be able to carry as much as 500 passengers, and could compete with the A380.




I don't recall for certain which airlines, but some, I have read,  that fly the A380 are less than happy with them and are replacing them with other aircraft


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## railiner (Dec 20, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> I don't recall for certain which airlines, but some, I have read,  that fly the A380 are less than happy with them and are replacing them with other aircraft


Looks like Boeing made the right decision, in not trying to get into a "who's the biggest" race with Airbus....


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## cpotisch (Dec 20, 2018)

The A380 is very good at a very specific kind of job: high capacity flights to and from airports with a limited _number_ of gates, but that have the _type_ of gate that can serve an enormous double decker plane like that. Unfortunately, there aren’t all that many of those kinds of flights. :unsure:


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## jis (Dec 20, 2018)

As far as I can tell Emirates is single handedly keeping the A380 alive. If they had not placed the recent follow on order, the A380 would have seen its production terminated. Somehow the notion of a 380 freighter appears to not have caught anyone's fancy that much either.

Incidentally, Emirates is now the largest customer for the 777-9.

As for the 777-10 Boeing has said it is technically feasible, but has not done much else about it, other than to also say if there is sufficient interest they will look into it. Perhaps a hint to Emirates that if they're really want it, an order of a hundred or so could get it going. 

Most of the action on the Airbus side is on the 330neo and 350, and not the 380, and Boeing know that they have to beat the 350, and they do not need to bother with the 380. Hence the attention to 787-10, 777-8 and 777-9.

BTW, it is rumored that Boeing will reveal its new mid-range offering to replace high end 737s, 757s, and low end 767s, below what 787s can effectively address, at Farnborough Air Show in 2019.


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## cpotisch (Dec 20, 2018)

jis said:


> As far as I can tell Emirates is single handedly keeping the A380 alive. If they had not placed the recent follow on order, the A380 would have seen its production terminated. Somehow the notion of a 380 freighter appears to not have caught anyone's fancy that much either﻿﻿.


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## cpotisch (Dec 21, 2018)

jis said:


> BTW﻿, it is rumor﻿ed that Boeing will reveal ﻿its new mid-range offering to replace high end 737s, 757s, and low end 767s, below what 787s can effectively address, at Farnborough Air Show in 2019.﻿


That’s rumored to be the 797, right?


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## PVD (Dec 21, 2018)

Yes


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## JRR (Dec 22, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> This! The 727 is in my opinion the prettiest airplane Boeing ever built. There’s just something about that particular fuselage and having that engine in the tail - it’s an absolutely stunning plane. It’s a shame I think I’ve only seen one in person in my entire life.
> Interestingly, you can actually buy an early model 727 for as low as $600K. It might require some maintenance and refurbishment, but still, that’s not that far above what many PVs go fort.


Plus, you can always jump out the back door of it with a briefcase full of money!

DBC


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## PVD (Dec 22, 2018)

There are still about 40 in the air, just about all as freighters.  UPS, DHL, FedEx had large numbers of them, Some 100s were re engined w/RR Tays which alowed them to meet tighter noise regs that the original P&W couldn't meet.. The ventral stair was modified so it wouldn't lower in flight after that legendary case.....


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