# Bike stuff



## Bjartmarr (Jul 25, 2016)

Two things:

(1) On my recent trips on the EB and CS, each train had a coach-baggage car with six bike racks. The baggage area remained empty throughout the trip, and I still had to box my bike. I wish Amtrak would let us use the racks, as boxing a bike is a pain.

(2) In SEA, I found a dumpster full of perfectly good used bike boxes which had all been cut in half. I expressed my disappointment to the baggage guy; he said that they used to leave the used boxes out for reuse, but word came down that they were to destroy the used boxes so that we would have to keep buying new ones. This is nickel-and-diming at its worst. Taking a bike on Amtrak is difficult enough already; Amtrak should not destroy resources and degrade the rider experience just to scrape up a few short-term dollars. They will lose far more money when riders figure out that megabus is faster, cheaper, and less hassle.


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 25, 2016)

I like Amtrak, but some of their policies leave me scratching my head... destroy bike boxes? Surely by the time they pay for them AND ship them to the station, they are losing money on them, so why destroy ones that don't cost anything?


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 25, 2016)

Yep, cut off your nose to spite your face as the old saying goes! 

Wonder which MBA issued this order while driving their desk?


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 25, 2016)

Does anyone know if folding bikes have to be carried in a bike box (or the available bike travel case)? The one I am looking at folds up to the size of a walker, and I've certainly seem those carried on without a box...


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 25, 2016)

So I guess U-Haul should go around grabbing used moving boxes from the dumpsters behind apartment buildings, and re-sell them to the next guy who's moving. And McD's should sort thru their trash, pick out the tossed fries, and re-sell them too.

Amtrak sells a bike box. What that guy does with the box afterwards, is up to him. It isn't Amtrak's box anymore, to even give away to someone else.


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## daybeers (Jul 25, 2016)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> So I guess U-Haul should go around grabbing used moving boxes from the dumpsters behind apartment buildings, and re-sell them to the next guy who's moving. And McD's should sort thru their trash, pick out the tossed fries, and re-sell them too.
> 
> Amtrak sells a bike box. What that guy does with the box afterwards, is up to him. It isn't Amtrak's box anymore, to even give away to someone else.


I think the issue being discussed is when a passenger with a bike box decides to give the box back to Amtrak, they just cut it up and recycle it instead of reusing it for another passenger with a bike.


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## BCL (Jul 25, 2016)

oregon pioneer said:


> Does anyone know if folding bikes have to be carried in a bike box (or the available bike travel case)? The one I am looking at folds up to the size of a walker, and I've certainly seem those carried on without a box...


Nothing about requiring a box or carrier. The basic rule is that it must fold to no more than 34"x14"x48", and substitutes for a piece of carry-on. It's supposed to go into end storage racks and not overheads. I've personally stored them between bikes at bike racks, but I guess that's kind of a gray area. I could store one unfolded in a regular bike space, but I'd rather leave them for passengers with non folding bikes.

https://www.amtrak.com/bring-your-bicycle-onboard


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## PaulM (Jul 25, 2016)

I've had my folder put just about everywhere imaginable: luggage rack, space at end of horizon cars, empty handicap room, conductor's lounge in transdorm, ski locker, and even one conductor had me put in in the overhead luggage rack, against the rules of course.

The only problem you might have is on viewliner sleepers - no luggage rack or space of any kind. The time I did a round trip on the LSL, I sneaked it into the coach luggage area.


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## daybeers (Jul 25, 2016)

Bjartmarr said:


> Two things:
> 
> (1) On my recent trips on the EB and CS, each train had a coach-baggage car with six bike racks. The baggage area remained empty throughout the trip, and I still had to box my bike. I wish Amtrak would let us use the racks, as boxing a bike is a pain.


Why won't Amtrak let passengers use the bike racks? I heard there were some flaws with them a couple months ago. Is that the reason?


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## PaulM (Jul 25, 2016)

Bjartmarr said:


> Two things:
> 
> (1) On my recent trips on the EB and CS, each train had a coach-baggage car with six bike racks. The baggage area remained empty throughout the trip, and I still had to box my bike. I wish Amtrak would let us use the racks, as boxing a bike is a pain.


This is hard to believe, not the pain part. Coach baggage cars were retrofitted with 7 bike racks, plus straps for an 8th, for use on the Capitol Limited. If they retrofitted more coach bags, I can't understand not using them. The CL service has been well received by cyclists, as you can imagine. Even the conductors I talked to were very up beat about it.

Supposedly, the new viewliner II bike racks are being used on some of the eastern trains. I would suspect it would be more difficult to lift the bikes up to the baggage cars than almost roll them into the coach baggage area. So why not use the western ones?


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## Bjartmarr (Jul 25, 2016)

daybeers said:


> I think the issue being discussed is when a passenger with a bike box decides to give the box back to Amtrak, they just cut it up and recycle it instead of reusing it for another passenger with a bike.


Well, almost. The passengers would leave the boxes in usable condition by the dumpster at the side of the building and others would take and reuse them. Then Corporate decided that this practice was cutting into new box sales, and ordered station staff to make sure they were destroyed.


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## daybeers (Jul 25, 2016)

Bjartmarr said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > I think the issue being discussed is when a passenger with a bike box decides to give the box back to Amtrak, they just cut it up and recycle it instead of reusing it for another passenger with a bike.
> ...


Wow, that's pretty ridiculous. At the very least they could take the boxes and resell them!


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## PaulM (Jul 25, 2016)

daybeers said:


> Bjartmarr said:
> 
> 
> > Two things:
> ...


The OP is talking about coach baggage cars on western superliner trains. I'm sure the rumor about flawed bike racks involved the VL II's on eastern trains. The racks on the Capitol Limited are just a hook hanging from the ceiling with a cable for locking the bike if you wish. No rocket science here.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 25, 2016)

PaulM said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > Bjartmarr said:
> ...


Don't most of the western trains now have the VLII baggage cars?


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## Bjartmarr (Jul 25, 2016)

The CS that I am on now has a V2 bag. The EB had a heritage bag. But I was referring to a Superliner coach-bag, which has (presumably functional) bike racks of the hang-it-on-the-wall variety.


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## TiBike (Jul 25, 2016)

There was a V2 bag and a coach-bag on the CS? Or are you referring to just the racks in the V2? Those racks work, too -- as mentioned above racking a bike ain't rocket science. It's past the point of there being any valid reason.


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## CCC1007 (Jul 25, 2016)

TiBike said:


> There was a V2 bag and a coach-bag on the CS? Or are you referring to just the racks in the V2? Those racks work, too -- as mentioned above racking a bike ain't rocket science. It's past the point of there being any valid reason.


there is really only one train that I'm aware of that currently is guaranteed to have at least one coach baggage car is the Portland section (27/28).


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## Bjartmarr (Jul 25, 2016)

TiBike said:


> There was a V2 bag and a coach-bag on the CS? Or are you referring to just the racks in the V2? Those racks work, too -- as mentioned above racking a bike ain't rocket science. It's past the point of there being any valid reason.


There is a v2 bag and a coach-bag on the 11(24) Coast Starlight, yes. I am referring to the racks in the coach-bag. Honestly, it's true. I'd post a pic if I could figure out how from my phone. Also, I probably couldn't get them in the same frame, so no pic anyways.

(Also, an extra SSL instead of the PPC. And a dash8 instead of the second p42. And the coach-bag is 1113 instead of 1114 where I usually see it.)


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## BCL (Jul 25, 2016)

Bjartmarr said:


> TiBike said:
> 
> 
> > There was a V2 bag and a coach-bag on the CS? Or are you referring to just the racks in the V2? Those racks work, too -- as mentioned above racking a bike ain't rocket science. It's past the point of there being any valid reason.
> ...


Last time I took the CS there was a Dash 8 as the second locomotive. However, nobody has to sit in it. Has anyone ever seen one as the lead in a recent two locomotive setup?


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## kmock (Jul 26, 2016)

On the upside, be glad you can even get a bike on the train. We are unable to do so on the Keystone Line (at least between HAR and PHL).


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 26, 2016)

I ordered my folding bike yesterday (from Bike Friday). I talked with Buck, who said he takes Amtrak from Eugene (where the company is based) to PDX all the time. I said, so you must be taking the Cascades? He answered that yes, usually, but sometimes he ends up hopping on the Coast Starlight and it's no different. He has a soft case the company sells, and when the bike is folded and packed in the soft case, it's just another piece of carry-on luggage to them.

I've ridden these bikes before, because my sister has THREE of them (including one of the cargo model). Because of the smaller wheels, they are a little more responsive than bikes with bigger wheels, but otherwise ride just like a full-sized bike. I've watched my sister and her husband (who has a different brand of folding bike) fold their bikes up and pack them onto the Boston commuter rail cars (any time except rush hour). They take them on cycling vacations around the world. I've ridden one around Boston. Highly recommended.


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## BCL (Jul 26, 2016)

oregon pioneer said:


> I ordered my folding bike yesterday (from Bike Friday). I talked with Buck, who said he takes Amtrak from Eugene (where the company is based) to PDX all the time. I said, so you must be taking the Cascades? He answered that yes, usually, but sometimes he ends up hopping on the Coast Starlight and it's no different. He has a soft case the company sells, and when the bike is folded and packed in the soft case, it's just another piece of carry-on luggage to them.
> 
> I've ridden these bikes before, because my sister has THREE of them (including one of the cargo model). Because of the smaller wheels, they are a little more responsive than bikes with bigger wheels, but otherwise ride just like a full-sized bike. I've watched my sister and her husband (who has a different brand of folding bike) fold their bikes up and pack them onto the Boston commuter rail cars (any time except rush hour). They take them on cycling vacations around the world. I've ridden one around Boston. Highly recommended.


Really depends. Smaller wheels have their own issues. The gearing has to be different to adjust for that.

The big issue is that folding bikes tend to be heavy. There are some ultralight foding bikes, but the prices are crazy. I saw someone folding up a Brompton, which has a really elegant folding mechanism. They cost about $1500 and up. I spent about $450 for a Giant folding bike.


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## TiBike (Jul 26, 2016)

I have a Friday I use for heavy (camping) touring and occasional plane trips. It's 16 years old and not as user-friendly as the newer models, but the quick fold plus the carrying bag is a good compromise for LD trains. It does handle a little differently, but you get used to it -- after a few minutes it's fine.

Any ideas as to why there's a coach bag on the Starlight? If it became a permanent feature, that would be the ideal bike solution -- roll it on and rack it yourself.


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## BCL (Jul 26, 2016)

TiBike said:


> I have a Friday I use for heavy (camping) touring and occasional plane trips. It's 16 years old and not as user-friendly as the newer models, but the quick fold plus the carrying bag is a good compromise for LD trains. It does handle a little differently, but you get used to it -- after a few minutes it's fine.
> 
> Any ideas as to why there's a coach bag on the Starlight? If it became a permanent feature, that would be the ideal bike solution -- roll it on and rack it yourself.


I've learned to live with the limitations of a folding bike. Everything is really a compromise in terms of cost, quality, weight, comfort, and handling. For myself, I mainly used it to bridge the short distance between the station and work. Public transportation schedules didn't line up well. I tried using my full sized bike, but then figured that a folder worked better for transporting in my car and dealing with full bike racks.


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## PaulM (Jul 26, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> There is really only one train that I'm aware of that currently is guaranteed to have at least one coach baggage car is the Portland section (27/28).


You can add the Capitol Limited to the list since they sell bike space in the coach baggage car.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 27, 2016)

daybeers said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak sells a bike box. What that guy does with the box afterwards, is up to him. It isn't Amtrak's box anymore, to even give away to someone else.
> ...


I think an important part of this discussion is the fact that once Amtrak sells the box to someone, it isn't theirs anymore.

If you have "beef" with the owner of box, you need to take it up with them, not Amtrak.

I guess you could always require the owner of the box to stand outside by the curb, waiting, hoping, for some other bike owner to whom they could then give/sell their box.


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## mulveyr (Aug 9, 2016)

daybeers said:


> Bjartmarr said:
> 
> 
> > daybeers said:
> ...


Interesting--my son and transported our boxed bikes from ALB to ROC just yesterday. In previous trips ( last one a couple of years ago ), the baggage guys just gave us used boxes; some of them had clearly been reused a LOT, but were perfectly fine. When we went to pick ours up this morning, they immediately cut and folded them before throwing them into the trash. We wondered if it was because of a space issue at the ROC station ( which is being rebuilt--they basically just have a glorified shed at the moment. )


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## PVD (Aug 9, 2016)

Maybe someone got caught reselling a box and pocketing it, maybe someone complained about paying for a used box, lots of possibilities.........


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## chakk (Aug 10, 2016)

Haven't seen a Dash-8 in the lead on the CS in many a year.


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Aug 11, 2016)

PaulM said:


> I've had my folder put just about everywhere imaginable: luggage rack, space at end of horizon cars, empty handicap room, conductor's lounge in transdorm, ski locker, and even one conductor had me put in in the overhead luggage rack, against the rules of course.
> 
> The only problem you might have is on viewliner sleepers - no luggage rack or space of any kind. The time I did a round trip on the LSL, I sneaked it into the coach luggage area.


 in a Viewliner roomette, there is a small luggaga space that is over the aisle, but only accessible from the roomette, you can stand on the toilet to access it.


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## MSP_Train_Hopper (Aug 28, 2016)

I just noticed that the new Empire Builder schedule (8/1) has a new footnote saying that there are now bike racks available. It says a reservation and fee are needed and the passenger mush handle their own bike to and from the baggage car. Doesn't say how much the fee is, if it is only available at checked baggage stations or anything else. Beyond this, I didn't see anything on the Empire Builder webpage or the Bikes on Board page. Has anyone else heard anything further?


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## PaulM (Aug 28, 2016)

MSP_Train_Hopper said:


> I just noticed that the new Empire Builder schedule (8/1) has a new footnote saying that there are now bike racks available. It says a reservation and fee are needed and the passenger mush handle their own bike to and from the baggage car. Doesn't say how much the fee is, if it is only available at checked baggage stations or anything else. Beyond this, I didn't see anything on the Empire Builder webpage or the Bikes on Board page. Has anyone else heard anything further?


Where did you see this footnote? If a train carries bikes and a reservation is needed, the "Add a Bike" icon will appear on the reservation query results. One hasn't appeared yet (8/28).


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## River Cities (Aug 28, 2016)

PaulM said:


> Where did you see this footnote? If a train carries bikes and a reservation is needed, the "Add a Bike" icon will appear on the reservation query results. One hasn't appeared yet (8/28).


 It shows up in the "Service on the Empire Builder®" section of this schedule. Would be nice if it were really true!


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 3, 2016)

MSP_Train_Hopper said:


> I just noticed that the new Empire Builder schedule (8/1) has a new footnote saying that there are now bike racks available. It says a reservation and fee are needed and the passenger mush handle their own bike to and from the baggage car. Doesn't say how much the fee is, if it is only available at checked baggage stations or anything else. Beyond this, I didn't see anything on the Empire Builder webpage or the Bikes on Board page. Has anyone else heard anything further?


Unless something changes, there should be an announcement for this train (and others) in the next few weeks.


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## Bjartmarr (Sep 3, 2016)

Letting us use the racks on the CS would simplify my LAX-SJC travel plans significantly.

Although if they're charging $25, that's significantly more money than taking the San Joaquin, where I can take a bike for free.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 13, 2016)

Btw, who remembers this song?


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## TiBike (Sep 13, 2016)

That's a tantalising post!


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## TiBike (Sep 14, 2016)

I'm moving this reply over from the new system schedule thread...



PaulM said:


> I'm confused regarding the Coast Starlight. Are you saying that you could take an unboxed bike to and from anywhere between Seattle and Eugene for $5, or between San Luis Obispo and San Diego for free? But anywhere else you would need to box it, which requires the originating and arrival stations to have baggage service?


No, that's not what it's looking like, although it's not impossible.

What I'm really saying is that the new system schedule is confusing - unlike any of the other LD routes, there's no verbiage in the CS section regarding bikes. But when you look at the compilation time tables – all coastal California service and all Oregon/Washington service – the CS listing has the same bike icon at the top as the corridor trains. There's no explanation of what that means on the California Coastal table, but there's a note on the Oregon/Washington table that says:



> Unboxed Bicycles: Amtrak Cascades trains are equipped with a limited number of bicycle racks for carrying unboxed bicycles. Reservations are required; passengers must lift the bicycle to shoulder height to put it into and pick it up from the baggage car. Bicycles in a bicycle box may also be checked on the Amtrak Cascades and the Coast Starlight between stations that offer checked baggage service; nominal fees also apply.


I'm worried that my confusion is just misplaced hope that the CS isn't being singled out as the only LD route without roll up/roll on bike service. Because that's what it's reading like, at least in the northwest.

Link to the new system schedule: https://www.amtrak.c...able-090916.pdf



PaulM said:


> TiBike said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, the Coast Starlight-specific section makes no mention of bikes but the Amtrak Cascades and California Coastal compilations have a bike icon at the top of the CS column, consistent with the corridor routes.
> ...


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 15, 2016)

TiBike said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > TiBike said:
> ...


Unless something changes, every station on this route with checked baggage will offer walk up bike service. California is only free where it overlaps with the Pacific Surfliner services, it is $5 where it overlaps with the Cascades. Otherwise, it is $20.


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## TiBike (Sep 15, 2016)

So $20 where it overlaps with the Capitol Corridor/San Joaquin too?


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## neroden (Sep 15, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> MSP_Train_Hopper said:
> 
> 
> > I just noticed that the new Empire Builder schedule (8/1) has a new footnote saying that there are now bike racks available. It says a reservation and fee are needed and the passenger mush handle their own bike to and from the baggage car. Doesn't say how much the fee is, if it is only available at checked baggage stations or anything else. Beyond this, I didn't see anything on the Empire Builder webpage or the Bikes on Board page. Has anyone else heard anything further?
> ...


Woo hoo! Do you think you could give a vague coded hint regarding whether this announcement will apply to the bikes travelling in a car with a VIEW?


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 15, 2016)

TiBike said:


> So $20 where it overlaps with the Capitol Corridor/San Joaquin too?




Since there are specific cities mentioned and I'm not familiar with those routes or policies, I prefer to wait for the official announcement or the internal leak to come out. I'm sure they are forthcoming....particularly the leak. 



neroden said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > MSP_Train_Hopper said:
> ...


Yes....and there is a backup plan in case a room with a view is not available. I'm very interested in seeing what the members of this board think of the plan. Unless something changes, I'm thinking some are not going to like it, particularly when it comes to transfers.

We'll find out soon enough, I suppose.


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## Ryan (Sep 18, 2016)

Saying that folks here aren't going to like something Amtrak does is about a bold a prediction as saying the sun is going to rise in the east this morning.


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## PaulM (Sep 18, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> I'm very interested in seeing what the members of this board think of the plan. Unless something changes, I'm thinking some are not going to like it, particularly when it comes to transfers.


I wouldn't want to disappoint Ryan.

If I understand the cryptic posts, I can see why many are not going to like it. I'm sure the main complaint will be that It ignores the fact that the vast majority of stations don't have baggage service, in which there is not much new here. As an aside, I just noticed that checked unboxed bikes on certain eastern single level trains is limited to "staffed stations", which is close but not the same as stations with baggage service. So again, not much new.

Cost wise, assuming we aren't in the $5 Cascade or $0 Surfliner category, the new system will cost $20 vs. the old $25 (15 for box + 10 handling) or $10 if you supply your own box. I presume you are referring to the fact that each time you transfer, you get hit with $20 again, whereas you pay the box and handling charge only once, no matter how many times you transfer.

Since traveling without a bike is normally a show stopper for me, I'm happy to pay whatever Amtrak wants to charge. But as far as I'm concerned, only Capitol Limited style service where you can bring a bike on board at any station, checked or otherwise, represents any improvement.


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## TiBike (Sep 18, 2016)

PaulM said:


> But as far as I'm concerned, only Capitol Limited style service where you can bring a bike on board at any station, checked or otherwise, represents any improvement.


I agree with you, about 95%. As I'm understanding it, it would be an improvement for stations that have baggage service but aren't fortunate to fall under state jurisdiction. Like my home station, Salinas. It would put us on a par with every station, save one, between Sacramento and San Diego. On the other hand, it would be a massive eff-you to Paso Robles, which would still be the only station south of Chico where you can't get a bike on board any way, any how. So okay, I'm back up to 100%. :huh:


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

Amtrak apparently made the big announcement this morning in St. Paul...


http://www.startribune.com/amtrak-announces-easier-bike-storage-for-cyclists-traveling-by-train/393986671/

No real details in the story, just that:

"Bicyclists will be able to hand their bike up to a conductor at the baggage car before boarding. For a $25 fee, your bicycle will be tagged and kept in a new baggage car bike rack until you leave the train."

That's probably not 100% accurate 

Still looking for the official press release and/or other details...


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

More promises about better service mañana...



> While the new bicycle accommodations were announced Monday, the service is not yet available to all Amtrak stops, James said. Generally, he said, the station needs to have working staff on hand to assist cyclists in loading and unloading their bicycles. Currently, the only stop between the Twin Cities and Chicago that will take bicycles is La Crosse, he said. The plan is that Red Wing and Winona will be added over the next year.
> 
> 
> 
> "We want to roll it out and make sure we get it right," he said, adding that the service is also available at Amtrak's stop in Glacier National Park.



Amtrak's website says East Glacier Park station is staffed, with baggage service. On the August Empire Builder pdf schedule, though, there's no baggage icon next to it.


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

The "add bike to trip" button is showing up as a booking option for the Empire Builder and the California Zephyr, but not the Coast Starlight yet.


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## PaulM (Sep 19, 2016)

TiBike said:


> "Bicyclists will be able to hand their bike up to a conductor at the baggage car before boarding. For a $25 fee, your bicycle will be tagged and kept in a new baggage car bike rack until you leave the train."
> 
> That's probably not 100% accurate


And from the linked article



> Generally, he said, the station needs to have working staff on hand to assist cyclists in loading and unloading their bicycles. Currently, the only stop between the Twin Cities and Chicago that will take bicycles is La Crosse, he said. The plan is that Red Wing and Winona will be added over the next year.


As I said, nothing new here.

I guess we really should wait for the official announcement. But if this is true, it just adds to the confusion. Does this mean that over the next year, Amtrak will staff RW and Winona, or that it will discover that the cyclist plus conductor will be able to load the 15 to 30 pound bike without further assistance?

As a side note, prior to the introduction of the Capitol Limited service, the media was reporting the cost would be $25. It turned out to be $20. Also, there was or still is confusion about the capacity. First it was 8 racks,, then 7. Based on my most recent experience, both numbers may be correct. There are 7 racks hanging from the ceiling. When I boarded in Cumberland (with a bike ticket of course), all 7 racks were full. But there was plenty of space along a wall with hooks and cables to secure an 8th bike; and the conductor saw me do it without comment.


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

PaulM said:


> There are 7 racks hanging from the ceiling. When I boarded in Cumberland (with a bike ticket of course), all 7 racks were full. But there was plenty of space along a wall with hooks and cables to secure an 8th bike; and the conductor saw me do it without comment.


That's the way it works on the Capitol Corridor, too. If a cyclist gets on a car and the racks are full, he/she stands and waits for a stop or two, and a rack will open up. Or will carry the bike up the stairs, through the coach, to another car, and then down the stairs. No drama.

The folks in Texas and Oklahoma seem to have figured it out. From the Heartland Flyer page:



> "You must have a travel document (ticket) for your bike. You must also complete a baggage ID tag and attach it to your bike. If you are boarding at the Fort Worth station, you can obtain baggage ID tags at the ticket office. Passengers boarding at unstaffed stations will obtain bike tags from the onboard train crew."
> 
> "You must be physically capable of lifting your bike up to a station employee standing on a baggage cart or to the train crew at the baggage car door. Once in the baggage car, Amtrak personnel will store and secure your bike in the bike racks."



No need for station staff to assist, or be involved at all. This is not rocket science.


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

The info is starting to go up on the Amtrak website:



> Empire Builder (WIN, GPK and WGL are unstaffed but will offer bike service)
> 
> California Zephyr (WIP is unstaffed but will offer bike service)


No Coast Starlight.

Lots of other routes, though – maybe all the other LD routes? – with most limited to 6 bikes per train and "Select Stations" and cost at $20 or "$20 or less".


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 19, 2016)

TiBike said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > There are 7 racks hanging from the ceiling. When I boarded in Cumberland (with a bike ticket of course), all 7 racks were full. But there was plenty of space along a wall with hooks and cables to secure an 8th bike; and the conductor saw me do it without comment.
> ...



There are a number of things that people that aren't involved in operations never consider. First, is a train to train comparison it not wise since different trains utilize different equipment. As examples The Capitol Limited and the Vermonter use a modified bike coach, while the Heartland Flyer and the Downeasters use a cabbage (something that TX and OK _may_ eliminate to save costs). Meanwhile, the newly added trains will all use the modified bike racks on the LDSL fleet. This naturally allows for different capacities.

Additionally, there are different operating parameters to consider. The vast majority of these trains traverse railroads that belong to other companies. It is easy to praise the ease of the Heartland Flyer. It is normally a *2* car train. On same occasions, it is a 3 car train. This allows the train to fit on even the tiniest platforms without increasing dwell since you can spot the cabbage and a coach on the platform simultaneously. When the train is operation normally, you can not do that with the 13 car Lake Shore Limited, with baggage cars on both ends (which is why 448/449 is not involved in bike service just yet). At stops like Erie PA (as an example) the baggage cars are nowhere near the platform. Same goes for a train such as the Coast Starlight, which can have up to twelve cars under normal operation. At a great deal of stations along the route, the baggage car is not on the platform. Therefore, to accommodate bikes at stops that don't have existing baggage service, depending on platform length and surroundings (is there a safe way to get passengers train side to get the bikes) you have to increase the dwell to allow a double or (possibly) triple stop. There are some stations where this is feasible but not optimal and in some cases, the host railroads wouldn't even allow it because of dwell.

That is why different trains have different options. Everything from dwell, recovery time, platform length, loading plans and train length has to be considered. It is a work in progress. As platforms are modified (there are plans to lengthen some over time), consists are adjusted and actual bike usage is monitored, I fully expect the plan to change. However, you have to start somewhere.



TiBike said:


> The info is starting to go up on the Amtrak website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If all goes according to plan, the Coast Starlight begins next week.


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## TiBike (Sep 19, 2016)

Good news re the Coast Starlight. I suppose I'm allowed to dream that some or all of the delay is due to Caltrans insisting that the same bike rules apply on every train at every station in California. Would be a wonderful world.

Roll up bike loading/unloading is being allowed at three unstaffed stations on the Empire Builder and one on the California Zephyr. So there's no inherent problem doing that with a Viewliner 2.

I get that a long train won't completely fit every platform. Double spotting isn't the only solution, but it is a solution in many cases. It's also simple to unload a bike at a station prior to one with a short platform, and temporarily hold it, say, in the lower level of a coach. Any place that's able to accommodate a wheelchair can accommodate a bicycle too -- it's a solution you see every day on transit buses and commuter lines. And yes, there might be times when half the passengers show up with a bike and the other half in wheelchairs, and someone is going to have to step a couple of feet out of his or her comfort zone. But it works.

You don't need to rebuild stations or reinvent trains in order to accommodate bikes.


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## PaulM (Sep 21, 2016)

Platform length, i.e., platforms too short for the baggage car to stop at it without double spotting, does have some logic to it. But that doesn't explain Ottumwa, IA. It's platforms can easily handle even the extended CZ summer consist. Besides, it is usually a smoke stop, so dwell shouldn't be a problem.


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## afigg (Sep 22, 2016)

Amtrak posted a news release yesterday announcing the expansion of the trainside checked bicycle program to a number of trains.

AMTRAK EXPANDS BICYCLE PROGRAM FOR TRAVEL ON NATIONAL ROUTES



> WASHINGTON – Amtrak is offering customers the opportunity to travel with their bicycles on more routes to different regions throughout the U.S. Trainside checked bicycle service is a new amenity available on the Cardinal, Sunset Limited, California Zephyr, Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, City of New Orleans, Lake Shore Limited and Texas Eagle. This service is also new for Northeast Regional trains with baggage service – trains 65, 66 and 67 – for travel between Boston and Newport News, Va.
> 
> Customers will be able to hand their standard full-size bicycle to an Amtrak crew member, who will then hang the item on a rack in the baggage car. This enhanced service is available at staffed stations that offer checked baggage.


The Coast Starlight is not in the list though.


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## TiBike (Sep 26, 2016)

The Coast Starlight is now listed as accepting roll up bikes. The info on the website still needs work – it says there's limited service available at CEN, which is Centralia, Illinois. I assume they mean CTL, which is Centralia, Washington. Not sure what limited service means, though – it's listed as a stop with baggage.

Amtrak is charging $20 for bikes between Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin stations, but $0 between stations on the Surfliner route. It's also $20 if you go from a non-Surfliner to a Surfliner station, and vice versa. The charge between Northwest corridor stations is $5, but $20 if you go to or arrive from further south.

None of the stations without baggage service are allowing roll up bicycles.

I supposed I should be happy that I can now roll up a bicycle in Salinas. And I am, but only to that extent. Overall, Amtrak's handling of this is a disappointment.


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## TiBike (Sep 26, 2016)

More insanity: the bike charge is per segment, and if you travel roundtrip, you have to pay for the bike in both directions, whether you're taking it or not.

Example: a Reno-Klamath Falls roundtrip (Zephyr-Starlight) cost $132 for the days I priced it ($66 each way). Adding a bike is $80 ($40 each way), for a total of $212. Even if you only have the bike with you going in one direction or another.

You can get around it by booking it as two oneway trips, which is easy to figure out if you're used to dealing with Amtrak, but not so obvious if you're a casual tourist. Not only will the tourist be doubly ripped off, but a bike rack slot will be taken out of service needlessly.

Another problem: the "add a bike" button doesn't make it clear that you're booking a space for an unboxed bike. If, for example, you're on a trip that combines airline and Amtrak travel and you have a (necessarily) boxed bike, you could end up clicking the add a bike button and be charged $20 or more for what should be $10. And a bike rack slot will be needlessly removed from inventory.

Completely nuts.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 26, 2016)

TiBike said:


> The Coast Starlight is now listed as accepting roll up bikes. The info on the website still needs work – it says there's limited service available at CEN, which is Centralia, Illinois. I assume they mean CTL, which is Centralia, Washington. Not sure what limited service means, though – it's listed as a stop with baggage.


Limited service means only 11 will accept bikes until further notice.



TiBike said:


> More insanity: the bike charge is per segment, and if you travel roundtrip, you have to pay for the bike in both directions, whether you're taking it or not.
> 
> Example: a Reno-Klamath Falls roundtrip (Zephyr-Starlight) cost $132 for the days I priced it ($66 each way). Adding a bike is $80 ($40 each way), for a total of $212. Even if you only have the bike with you going in one direction or another.
> 
> You can get around it by booking it as two oneway trips, which is easy to figure out if you're used to dealing with Amtrak, but not so obvious if you're a casual tourist. Not only will the tourist be doubly ripped off, but a bike rack slot will be taken out of service needlessly.


Thank you for pointing that out. I had the same problem when I used the online reservation system even though I purposely didn't click on ADD BIKE TO THIS TRIP, but it must be a website issue. However, it didn't happen on the res system. This will be "leaked" to someone, I'm sure. h34r:

So, TBIKE, I noticed you didn't complain about the transfer charge. I'm guessing you're not thrilled, but you're taking an "it is what it is" attitude?


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## TiBike (Sep 27, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> So, TBIKE, I noticed you didn't complain about the transfer charge. I'm guessing you're not thrilled, but you're taking an "it is what it is" attitude?


Taken by itself, charging $40 for a service that requires less work than a similar, included service (i.e. a 50 pound checked bag) is a ripoff. According to the website, the passenger is responsible for the transfer – taking it off one train, wheeling it over to the next one, and handing it up. Amtrak will allow passengers to store bikes in baggage areas during lengthy transfers, when those areas are available, but handling the bike is the passenger's job (and it should be – I want to have full responsibility for my bike). So log that as my formal complaint.

But on my long list of complaints about the program, it's near the bottom. The $20 fee is a bigger issue, because it will affect far more people – I gotta believe single segment trips are far more common than double segments, particularly for cyclists who use the train to bridge ride segments, or to come home from a one way ride. It's essentially the same complaint: it involves less work by Amtrak staff than checking a bag in one station and picking it up in another, and far less than the convoluted routing that sometimes happens when bags and passengers end up on different trains. It should be viewed as a way to increase ridership, and therefore overall revenue, rather than an opportunity to gouge riders because there's no other choice.

The problem is compounded by the haphazard way it's implemented. If I go from SLO to LA, the bike is included in my fare. If I go from SLO to San Jose, it's $20 extra. Same train, same amount of work and associated costs for Amtrak.

Personally, it doesn't really matter – I can afford an extra $20 or $40. Maybe I'd skip a business class upgrade or BYOB, maybe not. Depends on the total cost. It annoys me, but I'll get over it. Having a bike with me is much more important. That's not the case with all cyclists, though – more people use bikes for transportation out of necessity than by choice. If you doubt that, come spend an hour on the Monterey bike path during commute times.

But for someone like me who rides for pleasure, even, or maybe particularly, when I'm riding somewhere I have to go to anyway, the biggest problem with the program is the lack of access to stations. From a transportation point of view, the lack of access of the CZ to the Richmond BART connection and the CS to convenient and inexpensive hotels and car rentals (and kinder riding conditions) at Burbank is a much likelier deal breaker. Shutting out popular cycling destinations like Paso Robles and Truckee is money out of Amtrak's pocket, as well as frustrating for would be passengers – completely counter-productive to the ostensible goals of the program.

To round out the list, implementation appears to be crude. The round trip policy on the website is one example, the possible confusion over boxed/unboxed bikes is another. I fear it goes deeper. A hypothesis: if six people book bikes from LA to Salinas, then those six slots are dead for the entire run to Seattle. True or false? I don't know what the IT people would say, but given the otherwise poor implementation, I wouldn't believe them unless I tested it myself.

From my perspective, this program is designed to minimise impact on staff rather than maximise both Amtrak's revenue and the benefit to potential customers.


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## Train2104 (Sep 29, 2016)

Some unstaffed stations seem to be offering the bike service too. WIP is one of them.


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## neroden (Sep 29, 2016)

The limit of 6 bikes is not appropriate long term for the Viewliner cars. IIRC, the design allows for every luggage rack to be converted to a bike rack. Proper yield management would notice when the 6 slots are taken.... and open up another 6 slots, with a note to the conductor about this.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 30, 2016)

TiBike said:


> Taken by itself, charging $40 for a service that requires less work than a similar, included service (i.e. a 50 pound checked bag) is a ripoff. According to the website, the passenger is responsible for the transfer – taking it off one train, wheeling it over to the next one, and handing it up. Amtrak will allow passengers to store bikes in baggage areas during lengthy transfers, when those areas are available, but handling the bike is the passenger's job (and it should be – I want to have full responsibility for my bike). So log that as my formal complaint.


Noted and I agree. I thought it would be one charge for a logical trip.



> I fear it goes deeper. A hypothesis: if six people book bikes from LA to Salinas, then those six slots are dead for the entire run to Seattle. True or false? I don't know what the IT people would say, but given the otherwise poor implementation, I wouldn't believe them unless I tested it myself.


In the current form of this program, you would be correct. Let's say you 5 passengers book from LAX-SNS. Then, two passengers attempt to book from SLO-OKJ. Only one passenger would be able to used the walk-up service. The other passenger would have to use the boxed bicycle option as long as they are traveling to a station that has checked baggage.



neroden said:


> The limit of 6 bikes is not appropriate long term for the Viewliner cars. IIRC, the design allows for every luggage rack to be converted to a bike rack. Proper yield management would notice when the 6 slots are taken.... and open up another 6 slots, with a note to the conductor about this.


I don't believe every rack converts to a bike rack at this point. I believe the racks are mounted between the actual luggage racks. That would only leave room for maybe a dozen bikes? I'll try to take a look the next time I get near one.


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## TiBike (Sep 30, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> I don't believe every rack converts to a bike rack at this point. I believe the racks are mounted between the actual luggage racks. That would only leave room for maybe a dozen bikes? I'll try to take a look the next time I get near one.


From the pictures below, it looks like it's set up so that two bikes will take up two shelves (an upper and a lower), and that the bike racks are not installed on every set of shelves. In looking at what online pictures I could find, I think there probably is only six bike racks installed per car. There's room to add a lot more bike racks, but it becomes a question of how many luggage shelves do you want to give up.

Waiting for Amtrak to install more bike racks is a losing game, though. What's important now is effectively managing the bike racks that are there. That's about 50% competent data base coding, and 50% on board flexibility – e.g. occasionally make do with bungee cords or whatever to briefly accomodate an extra bike or two, like Amtrak already does on corridor routes. That's also one of several solutions for accomodating bikes at stations without baggage service.


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## neroden (Oct 1, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> > I fear it goes deeper. A hypothesis: if six people book bikes from LA to Salinas, then those six slots are dead for the entire run to Seattle. True or false? I don't know what the IT people would say, but given the otherwise poor implementation, I wouldn't believe them unless I tested it myself.
> 
> 
> In the current form of this program, you would be correct. Let's say you 5 passengers book from LAX-SNS. Then, two passengers attempt to book from SLO-OKJ. Only one passenger would be able to used the walk-up service. The other passenger would have to use the boxed bicycle option as long as they are traveling to a station that has checked baggage.


Well, this is OK, because it's the same algorithm used for seating: SLO-SNS is filled up at 6 bikes. The key question is this: if 6 passengers book from LAX-SNS, can 6 passengers book from SNS-OKJ? If not, it means Amtrak has reached the limits of ARROW's power, and needs to replace ARROW ASAP.

Now, as I said before, management should allow the "opening up" of an extra 2 bike slots from SLO-SNS if it seems appropriate (looking at passenger load, and thus expected checked baggage load, to see whether it's OK to reduce checked bagagge capacity)


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## TiBike (Oct 1, 2016)

Is the seat management algorithm that precise? Good if it is, but I wouldn't assume so -- don't know, just wondering. On some routes - I'm betting the Coast Starlight will be one - bike capacity usage as a percentage could soon be higher than seat loading. Some sloppiness in tracking seats might, for example, be cost effective, but wouldn't work for a much more limited resource like bike racks.


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## TiBike (Oct 9, 2016)

I used the new roll up bike service on the Coast Starlight last night, Salinas to Emeryville. Worked fine.

I walked into the station and the agent asked me if I had a ticket for the bike. I said yep, she gave a baggage tag and claim check, I attached it and waited for the train. When the train arrived, I walked the bike up to the baggage car, handed it up to the agent on the baggage cart, who handed it up to the conductor. Then I walked back to the coach section.

When the other conductor scanned my ticket, she asked me where the other passenger was. I told her I was the only passenger, she said no, I had two tickets. Turns out the bike technically had a ticket -- that's apparently how Amtrak is accounting for the bike slots.

Only glitch came when I got off in Emeryville. When I started walking up towards the baggage car, the coach attendant stopped me and told me to go the other way, into the station. I said I was picking up my bike. She said they'd bring it to me and adamently told me I couldn't go up to the baggage car. I was just as adament and she said fine and I went up and got my bike, which had been unloaded and was nicely leaning against a pole. No problem for me, but it would have been for someone who didn't know the program and/or was less assertive. But it worked it for me.

It's a night and day difference with the old system. It's more convoluted than just rolling it on and hanging it yourself, but it's easy enough to deal with. I would have never have gone through the hassle of boxing and unboxing a bike for such a short train ride and, more importantly, such short bike ride on the other end.

Huge improvement.


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## Bjartmarr (Oct 10, 2016)

It's a huge improvement, yes. And I can easily see using it on rare occasions.

But I just priced LAX->SJC with a bike, 10 hours on the CS is $79. BoltBus is 7 hours and costs $31. I love the train, but I wish it were at least somewhat competitive price-wise; $48 is a hefty premium to pay.


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## TiBike (Oct 11, 2016)

Bjartmarr said:


> It's a huge improvement, yes. And I can easily see using it on rare occasions.
> 
> But I just priced LAX->SJC with a bike, 10 hours on the CS is $79. BoltBus is 7 hours and costs $31. I love the train, but I wish it were at least somewhat competitive price-wise; $48 is a hefty premium to pay.


Amen. My ticket from SNS to EMY was $22, the bike's ticket was $20, total of $42. Could have done it by bus/BART for half that.

I skipped the business class upgrade - $67 for a $22 ride was taking it too far. Which meant that Amtrak also missed out on my parlour car bar tab. Shortsighted, IMHO.


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## justinslot (Oct 13, 2016)

So I'm thinking about bringing my folding bike (Dahon Vitesse, 20" wheels, about 25 pounds) on a trip to Florida (PHL to ORL.) And I'm trying to decide if it'll be too big a hassle or not. The policy says you are allowed to bring on a folding bike as carry on, but the Viewliners don't have the dedicated cargo space that Superliners have, so how does that work? I can't imagine jamming a folding bike in a roomette with me.

Or--I can I check a folded bike as is or would I have to put it in something? (Do we know the dimensions of the bike box? I would think I would be able to just fold my pedals up to fit it in a bike box, versus taking them off.) Or do I just not fold it, treat it like a regular bike and hand it to baggage car staff as part of the walk up bike service?

(I suppose I'm just soliciting opinions before I call Amtrak myself, given that not all Amtrak staffers are equally aware of all Amtrak policy.)


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## Ryan (Oct 13, 2016)

Roomette or Bedroom?


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## justinslot (Oct 13, 2016)

Ryan said:


> Roomette or Bedroom?


Roomette.


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## Ryan (Oct 13, 2016)

Less space, but a small cubby above the hallway in your room.

Bedrooms have a massive amount of space above the hallway and restroom.


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## justinslot (Oct 13, 2016)

Ryan said:


> Less space, but a small cubby above the hallway in your room.
> 
> Bedrooms have a massive amount of space above the hallway and restroom.


I know...my post assumes putting a folding bike inside a roomette is suboptimal, if not impossible.


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## PVD (Oct 14, 2016)

A viewliner upper makes a good storage shelf for a single traveler, not so practical in a SL.


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## oregon pioneer (Oct 14, 2016)

PVD said:


> A viewliner upper makes a good storage shelf for a single traveler, not so practical in a SL.


Do you have a tote bag for it? I am going to make one out of recycled blue jeans for my new Bike Friday (just arrived this week, green gear green, woohoo!!). Not much protection, but I figure it will make it easier to tote, and easier to put on a seat or bunk. I don't think it would fit very well in a Viewliner roomette storage cubby, but certainly on the upper bunk, maybe even on the backwards facing seat (if you are traveling alone, and depending which seat is facing backwards).


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## PaulM (Oct 14, 2016)

justinslot said:


> So I'm thinking about bringing my folding bike (Dahon Vitesse, 20" wheels, about 25 pounds) on a trip to Florida (PHL to ORL.) And I'm trying to decide if it'll be too big a hassle or not. The policy says you are allowed to bring on a folding bike as carry on, but the Viewliners don't have the dedicated cargo space that Superliners have, so how does that work? I can't imagine jamming a folding bike in a roomette with me.
> 
> Or--I can I check a folded bike as is or would I have to put it in something? (Do we know the dimensions of the bike box? I would think I would be able to just fold my pedals up to fit it in a bike box, versus taking them off.) Or do I just not fold it, treat it like a regular bike and hand it to baggage car staff as part of the walk up bike service?
> 
> (I suppose I'm just soliciting opinions before I call Amtrak myself, given that not all Amtrak staffers are equally aware of all Amtrak policy.)


I frequently travel with a Dahon MU P8. I agree that it wouldn't fit very well in VL room if there are two people (I've never traveled alone in one). What I did once was sneak the bike onto a coach where there was ample luggage space. I did this successfully departing CHI on the LSL and returning from Albany after biking the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany.

Several times when traveling to Florida, I packed it in an airline legal suitcase; and the station agents were kind enough to store the suitcase until I returned. But I wouldn't count on that. Another time we manage to carry the suitcases to our motel.







A 20" Dahon would get lost in an Amtrak box; and I doubt you would have to remove the pedals. Since your origin and destination has walk up bike service, I would go that route. I don't see why you would have to fold it (nothing in the rules indicating that a clown bike  is not acceptable). I doubt Amtrak will have thought through the question of whether walk up bike service for a folder works better folded or not.


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## justinslot (Oct 23, 2016)

Thanks PaulM. Yeah, I think my best options are either checking it in a suitcase, or using the walk up bike service.


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## justinslot (Oct 28, 2016)

Update: after talking with a CSR it appears the attendant will place the folded bike in the baggage car. So I am going to take my chances tomorrow with just bringing my bike to the station, sans suitcase or bike reservation. Wish me luck.


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## TiBike (Oct 28, 2016)

Good luck -- let us know how it goes!


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## justinslot (Oct 29, 2016)

I had no issues carrying it on, and the SCA took it to the baggage car after asking the conductor if it was okay to leave it there.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 31, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> There are a number of things that people that aren't involved in operations never consider. First, is a train to train comparison it not wise since different trains utilize different equipment. As examples The Capitol Limited and the Vermonter use a modified bike coach, while the Heartland Flyer and the Downeasters use a cabbage (something that TX and OK may eliminate to save costs).


Unless something changes, I think this song is appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT1uxJb2ci8

Happy New Year! h34r:


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## TiBike (May 8, 2017)

So we're well into the new year and summer is coming up fast. It seems no one at Amtrak is breaking a sweat over implementing roll-up bicycle service. It's stuck at where it was seven months ago.

They've finally gotten around to including the correct information in the California Zephyr and Empire Builder schedules, but that's about it. The Coast Starlight schedule doesn't even mention bikes, on both the standalone version (published January 2016) and the version in the systemwide timetable. The coastal California schedule in the systemwide version, on the other hand, makes it look like bike service is available at every station on the route. The correct info is available on website pages, but you have to dig around to find it.

The ticketing system is still messed up. If you buy a bike slot on a round trip and book a bike in one direction, the system automatically adds it to the other direction. That's true whether you book the bike just on the outbound or just on the return. And it still adds the $20 upcharge on a per segment basis, whether you take a bike on both segments or not. To use an extreme example, if I want to travel from Reno to Klamath Falls and back, but just want to take my bike as far as Sacramento on the outbound leg and leave it there, it'll cost me $80.

One workaround is to book one-way tickets. Booking single segment tickets isn't much of a solution: you still end up paying more for the journey – in one scenario I tried it was more than the $20 phantom bike charge – and you lose any protection you might have for a missed connection. But not everyone is going to figure it out, nor should they have to. It's just typical Amtrak sloppiness, but it's also grounds for a consumer fraud complaint if someone gets tagged with unnecessary extra charges.

No one has bothered to figure out how to deal with bikes at most unstaffed stations, either. The two unstaffed stations on the EB and the one on the CZ still take roll ups, so it's solvable. And the staff at Centralia, Washington still hasn't figured out how to load/unload bikes in both directions.

After seven months of accepting bikes – and two years of trying to figure out how to operate the bike racks on the new baggage cars – what might have been reasonable start-up glitches have become standard operating procedure.

Pathetic.



Thirdrail7 said:


> Unless something changes, I think this song is appropriate.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT1uxJb2ci8
> 
> Happy New Year! h34r:


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## Thirdrail7 (May 18, 2018)

Train side bike check is now available on trains 67/65 and 66 at Richmond Main Street station (RVM.) That makes 6 out of 9 stations that offer train side bike check on the WAS-NPN section of this train.

I don't have a lot of hope for the other three but I didn't have a lot of hope for RVM.


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## Thirdrail7 (Aug 11, 2018)

According to the Amtrak website, the Hoosier State will allow carry on bicycles. It takes effect on 8/20.


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## IndyLions (Aug 11, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> According to the Amtrak website, the Hoosier State will allow carry on bicycles. It takes effect on 8/20.


I think there is a trip to CHI with my bike in the future. Will CRF support them?


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## Thirdrail7 (Aug 15, 2018)

Hammond (HMD), Meridian(MEI), Tuscaloosa(TCL) offer train side bicycle check.


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## dogbert617 (Aug 16, 2018)

IndyLions said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > According to the Amtrak website, the Hoosier State will allow carry on bicycles. It takes effect on 8/20.
> ...


I did a test booking on the website of Crawfordsville to Chicago on one of the days Cardinal doesn't run, and it appears the fee is $10 to bring a bike on board with the carry on bike program for the Hoosier State train. Oddly enough, the carry on bicycle website Amtrak page hadn't yet been updated to show this, but it shows the thrice weekly Cardinal charges $20 for a carry on bike(ouch, when I assumed most such fees were $10 or less). https://www.amtrak.com/bring-your-bicycle-onboard


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## TiBike (Nov 5, 2018)

Moving this from the carry-on policy thread -- there are plenty of bicycle solutions, on and off Amtrak, that don't involve fancy bike racks and/or dedicated space. These pictures are from my trip to LA. Didn't get pics at the Salinas station, where the agent was extremely helpful, offering to store my bike while I got lunch and then rolling it up to the baggage car himself (no other checked baggage, and 11 was 2 hours late – he took the initiative and sped things up for everyone).




Onboard the Catalina ferry. The bike racks were full, so the crewman told me to lean it up against the bulkhead. No bungee cord needed, worked fine.




On the Metro Blue Line, from Long Beach to downtown LA. I hooked my handlebar over the railing (it's shared space with wheelchairs), the next guy on bungeed his bike to a post, guy #3 held onto his. No drama.




In the LA Union Station Metro Lounge. The attendant smiled when I came in and said "put it over there".




On board the Surfliner, heading to Santa Barbara. The bike racks are minimal – just a velcro strap to hold the rear wheel. Works fine. Notice the hooks and other hardware for wheelchairs – the primary wheelchair space is next to the bike area, but it's designed to be flexibly shared if needed.




Underneath the Thruway, from Santa Barbara to Salinas. The driver had me slide it in on top of the wheelchair lift.

No problem transporting a bike anywhere. Everyone – staff and fellow passengers – was gracious. The bike racks in the Viewliner 2 baggage cars are nice, but not particularly necessary. Attitude is what matters.


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## AG1 (Nov 5, 2018)

Nice report and  photos on the transport of bicycles on Amtrak. Do you have insurance on your titanium bike ? I would be apprehensive leaving it out of my sight ! (off train)


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## TiBike (Nov 5, 2018)

I don't have special insurance for my bikes, just whatever coverage I might have on my homeowners' policy.

Yes, I worry about it too. The bike area on the Surfliner was full this trip, and bikes needed to be moved around, so I didn't lock it. If I can, I do, but I don't worry about it so much on the Surfliner or Capitol Corridor. Anywhere else, unless it's checked, I keep it in sight – I'll stand next to it or sit in a jump seat if necessary. At stations, I'll put it in a bike locker – Bike Link is well established in the Bay Area, and a few other places in California. Secure bicycle parking is also becoming more common, particularly around train stations and transit hubs. When I'm in a hotel, I always bring it in the room with me – never leave it in their so called bicycle parking areas.


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 29, 2018)

Ottumwa,La Junta, Fort Madison,  and Topeka will offer train side bike service.  Check the website for details, possible fees,etc.


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## TiBike (Nov 30, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Ottumwa,La Junta, Fort Madison,  and Topeka will offer train side bike service.  Check the website for details, possible fees,etc.


Thanks! That's great news. They're figuring it out, and deserve credit for it. [emoji3]


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## PaulM (Nov 30, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Ottumwa,La Junta, Fort Madison,  and Topeka will offer train side bike service.  Check the website for details, possible fees,etc.


You can add Mt. Pleasant, IA to the list.

I do have a question about MTP.  It is one of those stations that lost its agent in the latest downsizing.  Recently at train time someone was performing agent duties, filling out baggage claim checks, including bikes; letting people know when the train is approaching, which side of the double track to stand on, and where the coaches and sleepers were located;wheeling checked baggage out to the baggage car; and in general making like an agent.  After checking my bike ticket, he took it from me and did the rest.

Is it possible that Amtrak is hiring someone just to help out at train time?  Agents may not be selling as many ticket anymore; but there services are sure needed at train time at places like MTP.


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 30, 2018)

The title is "caretaker." They open/close the station and assist passengers. A lot of the unstaffed stations have them.  I've heard they are volunteers or work for the city that provides them.


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## TiBike (Mar 21, 2019)

Here's a picture of a bike (not mine) loaded into the baggage car on the Starlight on a recent trip. There were three bikes, including mine, getting off at the same station and the conductor just leaned them up against the baggage shelves when he loaded them on at various stations as the train came up from LA. No bike rack, no bungee cord, no problem. It's a good way to load bikes in – see my post above for an example of doing it the same way on a ferry boat.

It tells me a couple of things: 1. the conductor knew what he was doing and made a smart and efficient choice, and 2. you don't need a whole baggage car with fancy bike racks to transport bicycles.

I'm glad that at least some people at Amtrak have figured out that bicycles are not radioactive. There's no good reason not to take roll on/roll up bikes at any station on any train.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 21, 2019)

I'm glad you're condoning all of the violations that this conductor committed. It is equally gratifying that you're posting it for any manager or supervisor that may frequent this board to see.


Why don't you finish the job by sending this into Amtrak and gush about what a great, efficient rule violator he is? Even better, submit the crew name and date of travel? That will save them the trouble of sending spotters or causing local management to hide and scout out the actions of other crews.


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## TiBike (Mar 21, 2019)

Yes, to the extremely limited extent it matters to the universe, I am condoning any and all violations, and offering gushing praise about what I saw. If an employee acts rationally, or at least fails to succumb to what others have accurately described as bicycle derangement syndrome, and that causes Amtrak managers' blood vessels to pop, then the problem is with Amtrak management. This is an example of the way it can be done – it's a method that can be used to improve customer service and make long distance trains more attractive to more people. Maybe not make a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

Given the volume of comments on this board about employee rule violations that diminish the quality of service offered to Amtrak customers that don't seem to result in massive undercover operations to find the offenders, I'm not going to feel guilty about mentioning one that can actually improve it.


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## tricia (Mar 21, 2019)

Possible problem suggested by the photo in post #95: One bike is taking up space that might be needed by a whole lot of other baggage. There's gotta be a better way...


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 21, 2019)

Perfect....this is what I actually wanted:



TiBike said:


> Given the volume of comments on this board about employee rule violations that diminish the quality of service offered to Amtrak customers that don't seem to result in massive undercover operations to find the offenders, I'm not going to feel guilty about mentioning one that can actually improve it.



Rule and safety violations (that the FRA requested Amtrak implement even though they don't restrict other railroads) are cool and you're all for employees breaking rules...as long as it helps you or works to your favor.

I suspected as much. Thanks for the confirmation.


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## TiBike (Mar 21, 2019)

Thanks for the snark. Sometimes the problem is an employee breaking the rules, sometimes it's the rule itself. I'm inclined to believe it's the latter, although you don't actually cite a rule that's being violated. So exactly which FRA rule is being violated? Where do I find an FRA rule regarding bicycles?


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 21, 2019)

Well, the service standards book that floats around has the Amtrak violations, which largely revolve around securing. As for the FRA, it is likely contained in the same memorandum of implementation (or possibly understanding)that also contains why only Amtrak trains must have have a passenger manifest (in case of an accident..because commuter trains NEVER get in accidents), is currently exempt from the PTC speed restrictions on the NEC (because what could possibly go wrong there), must carry air test results on the equipment (which is a freight rule, not a passenger rule) and a host of other things that seemingly only apply to Amtrak.

High speed bungee cords, anyone? Oh wait...not allowed to use bungee cords.


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## Barb Stout (Mar 22, 2019)

TiBiker, an outsider like myself would assume the rule about securing bikes is to prevent damage to the bikes. Is there something wrong with my reasoning?


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## jis (Mar 22, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> ... only Amtrak trains ... is currently exempt from the PTC speed restrictions on the NEC (because what could possibly go wrong there), ...


What's that all about?


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## TiBike (Mar 22, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Well, the service standards book that floats around has the Amtrak violations, which largely revolve around securing. As for the FRA, it is likely contained in the same memorandum of implementation (or possibly understanding)that also contains why only Amtrak trains must have have a passenger manifest (in case of an accident..because commuter trains NEVER get in accidents), is currently exempt from the PTC speed restrictions on the NEC (because what could possibly go wrong there), must carry air test results on the equipment (which is a freight rule, not a passenger rule) and a host of other things that seemingly only apply to Amtrak.
> 
> High speed bungee cords, anyone? Oh wait...not allowed to use bungee cords.



OK, so there's no rule that specifically applies to bicycles that you know of, just general rules that involve securing items in the baggage car? The bike in the picture, and the other two bikes I observed were no more or less secured than any other baggage. If it weren't contraband, a bungee cord would have been a good precaution, but the bikes were stable as they were. I've seen similar on another Amtrak route (I won't mention which one, because I'd hate to spark yet another undercover jihad) when bike racks were full. But it was passengers who were doing the leaning, so maybe that's allowed.

BTW, I don't recall complaining on this forum about Amtrak employees not following rules as such. I've kvetched about actions that others have said were against rules, and about inconsistent behaviour, which relates to rules, but not about actual rule breaking. I could be wrong about that – I don't recall every post I've made. If I have, I'll take a mea culpa for it. On the other hand, I've admitted rulebreaking (see posts about onboard booze), praised other actions that I'd guess were contrary to rules (e.g. business class attendant getting passengers into the PPC and a station agent handing a roll up bicycle up to a train), and advocated gaming rules (e.g. 750 mile rule).

Some rules are necessary for safety and good service, but a lot of Amtrak rules work to prevent good service. On a recent trip, the train was an hour and a half late arriving at the station where I boarded. I waited by the baggage car for the conductor to finish doing whatever else she needed to do, while half a dozen or so other staff stood around doing nothing for at least ten minutes (there weren't many passengers to board). The conductor couldn't get to me until the passenger cars were closed up (except the very last coach) and the train was otherwise ready to go. She had to walk up most of the length of the train and then had trouble with the door, but finally took my bike. I then had to go the length of the train to the last coach. That all took about another ten minutes. So a train that was already late ended up at least ten minutes later because only one person could do the necessary work.

Some Amtrak rules are counterproductive. If someone acts contrary to the rules and produces a better result, I have no problem at all with it.


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## TiBike (Mar 22, 2019)

Barb Stout said:


> TiBiker, an outsider like myself would assume the rule about securing bikes is to prevent damage to the bikes. Is there something wrong with my reasoning?



I don't know what the rules are. Securing a bike with a bungee cord, or even just hooking the handbars over something (like the folded shelves in the picture) is a good precaution, but not strictly necessary in this case. My original point was that Amtrak's restrictions on bikes on long distance trains are unnecessary and counterproductive, and that rational, customer-focused policy will result in better service.


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## Barb Stout (Mar 23, 2019)

I couldn't tell from the picture that the bicycle handles were hooked over anything. I thought it was just leaning against the car wall. Hooking like this seems reasonable to me.


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## TiBike (Mar 23, 2019)

You're right -- it's not hooked. What I was trying to say is that it would have been a good idea to hook the handlebars over the folded shelves. It's actually pretty stable as you see it in the picture, and there didn't seem to be a problem with any of the bikes. I'm guessing it wasn't the conductor's first rodeo. I would have hooked the handlebars out of habit, though.


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## TiBike (May 12, 2019)

The Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority approved its latest business plan last month. Lots of bicycle upgrades in progress, including this:

"Designing an onboard bicycle storage solution for the Superliner cars, which are leased from Amtrak for operations in the Capitol Corridor system."

There is $230K in the budget for the design and installation work for the Superliner cars and for a similar redesign of bike racks in cab cars. It would be a wonderful thing if Amtrak accepts this gift from California taxpayers and replicates the solution across its fleet. Or maybe California will be able to take over running all the trains here, and solve the (very simple) problem of roll on bikes itself.

The last numbers I saw, from 2016, showed that 13.5% of Capitol Corridor trips involve a bicycle, although not necessarily on the train (i.e. to/from stations too). That number has increased, although I don't know by how much. But the Capitol Corridor JPA is spending money trying to keep up:



> • Installed bike storage racks in all Northern California Coach Cars to store three bicycles on the lower level of the car.
> • Retrofitted 14 first generation California Cab Cars (8300-series) in FY 2013-14 to hold 13 bicycles as opposed to seven bicycles.
> • Configured five Surfliner Cab Cars (6000-series) with storage space for up to 13 bicycles in the lower level baggage area.
> • Adding former California baggage cars (8200-series) to the Capitol Corridor fleet as second bike cars on select Capitol Corridor trains.
> ...


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## Thirdrail7 (May 12, 2019)

jis said:


> What's that all about?



Trains without PTC are still allowed to operate at speeds above 79mph despite the law that was postponed until 12/31/18. I suppose the law was postponed with the PTC extension but other railroads are enforcing the 79mph.



TiBike said:


> OK, so there's no rule that specifically applies to bicycles that you know of, just general rules that involve securing items in the baggage car? The bike in the picture, and the other two bikes I observed were no more or less secured than any other baggage. If it weren't contraband, a bungee cord would have been a good precaution, but the bikes were stable as they were. I've seen similar on another Amtrak route (I won't mention which one, because I'd hate to spark yet another undercover jihad) when bike racks were full. But it was passengers who were doing the leaning, so maybe that's allowed.
> .



There are specific rules about securing bicycles and general rules about securing other items. 



Barb Stout said:


> TiBiker, an outsider like myself would assume the rule about securing bikes is to prevent damage to the bikes. Is there something wrong with my reasoning?





TiBike said:


> I don't know what the rules are. Securing a bike with a bungee cord, or even just hooking the handbars over something (like the folded shelves in the picture) is a good precaution, but not strictly necessary in this case. My original point was that Amtrak's restrictions on bikes on long distance trains are unnecessary and counterproductive, and that rational, customer-focused policy will result in better service.



Again, it wasn't Amtrak that wanted this. As I've stated to you various times in the past, I'm not sure why certain railroads are restricted to certain levels while other are not. The only thing I can think of is it it based upon the regulations governing certain types of operations (e.g. Tier 1, Tier II, Long Distance Intercity, Short Distance Intercity, Commuter Service,etc). However, the bottom line is additional security was demanded since there is concern that these bikes would become flying, handled projectiles in a derailment. That is the major concern. NJT had to install bike mounting areas and they have to be secured. Meanwhile, MARC has bike mounting areas that do not require supplemental restraints....and the operate up to 125mph!! Perhaps it has something to do with the actual mounting system. 

At any rate, leaning an unsecured bike or throwing it in the vestibule is not allowed...whether you agree with it or not...and that goes for many different that have different policies. 

Which reminds me of one of the videos that showed up on another board. Two passengers showed up on a NJT train with their bikes....outside of the hours allowed. NJT has additional restrictions, indicating that the crews may also limit bikes if crowding exists, so the hours mean very little since the crew has the final say.

The passengers, wouldn't take no for an answer, the police were summoned who cited them for delaying public transportation and chaos ensues...because they have their bikes and it is their right to travel with their bikes because as the young lady states "we ARE public transportation."



What occurs at one agency does not reflect how things operate at other agencies. BTW,I strongly advise against biting police officers. I never thought it was a good idea. After watching this video, I'm now sure it isn't a good idea.



TiBike said:


> T
> 
> There is $230K in the budget for the design and installation work for the Superliner cars and for a similar redesign of bike racks in cab cars. It would be a wonderful thing if Amtrak accepts this gift from California taxpayers and replicates the solution across its fleet. Or maybe California will be able to take over running all the trains here, and solve the (very simple) problem of roll on bikes itself.



As you posted, those cars are leased to CA and they can do what they wish with them. Again, those cars are part of a dedicated fleet assigned to what is basically intrastate travel, or commuter service.

In other words, you won't see those cars on the Auto Train or the Sunset Limited. You won't see them on the Heartland Flyer nor should you see them subbing for the Horizon cars on Pere Marquette. You will see them in CA. 

So, it would probably not be a wonderful thing to remove seats from a car that may travel to other areas that are suffering from capacity constraints (remember, some people were outraged over the removal of NON REVENUE seating to accommodate a few bikes) and reduce available revenue seating to cars that may interchange throughout the United States...and to trains with dedicated baggage cars.


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## TiBike (May 12, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Again, it wasn't Amtrak that wanted this. As I've stated to you various times in the past, I'm not sure why certain railroads are restricted to certain levels while other are not. The only thing I can think of is it it based upon the regulations governing certain types of operations (e.g. Tier 1, Tier II, Long Distance Intercity, Short Distance Intercity, Commuter Service,etc). However, the bottom line is additional security was demanded since there is concern that these bikes would become flying, handled projectiles in a derailment. That is the major concern...At any rate, leaning an unsecured bike or throwing it in the vestibule is not allowed...whether you agree with it or not...and that goes for many different that have different policies.



Okay, you convinced me. I'm not advocating for unsecured bikes, particularly. As I said, I would have hooked the handlebar over the rack. And I would have felt better tying it down.

I don't doubt you when you say some rules are different for say, long distance trains and commuter lines. I'm not convinced that federally mandated, bicycle-specific rules, if such exist, differ significantly, but I've never seen FRA rules and I should cure that ignorance. I would say, though, that what are often perceived as differences in rules (of any kind) are actually differences in interpretation, which lead to differences in policy.



Thirdrail7 said:


> The passengers, wouldn't take no for an answer, the police were summoned who cited them for delaying public transportation and chaos ensues...because they have their bikes and it is their right to travel with their bikes because as the young lady states "we ARE public transportation."



Breaking rules can lead to unpleasant consequences. No argument there. I've never claimed cyclists are invariably pleasant people. I wouldn't even make that claim about myself . There's a difference between being properly assertive and being an a**h***. They were way over the line. That wasn't even a righteous case of civil disobedience. There are ways about going about that, including accepting – welcoming, even – the consequences.



Thirdrail7 said:


> As you posted, those cars are leased to CA and they can do what they wish with them. Again, those cars are part of a dedicated fleet assigned to what is basically intrastate travel, or commuter service.
> 
> In other words, you won't see those cars on the Auto Train or the Sunset Limited. You won't see them on the Heartland Flyer nor should you see them subbing for the Horizon cars on Pere Marquette. You will see them in CA.
> 
> So, it would probably not be a wonderful thing to remove seats from a car that may travel to other areas that are suffering from capacity constraints (remember, some people were outraged over the removal of NON REVENUE seating to accommodate a few bikes) and reduce available revenue seating to cars that may interchange throughout the United States...and to trains with dedicated baggage cars.



The gift is the design and, presumably, any validation and/or certification work that might be necessary. I never assumed California will give those cars back anytime soon. I'm hoping CCJPA comes up with a creative solution that works on any Superliner, without having to remove seats. That said, I've seen plenty of Superliner coaches on LD trains with seats removed, to one degree or another, on the lower level. Mechanically, it might turn out to be easier to implement the solution on an LD train. Might. We'll have to wait and see. The bigger issue is cultural: California transit agencies embrace bikes as a natural part of the ecosystem; Amtrak does not. There's no mechanical fix for that.


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## PaulM (May 16, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Ottumwa,La Junta, Fort Madison, and Topeka will offer train side bike service. Check the website for details, possible fees,etc.



Has Ottumwa changed? I did a test booking on several different days from OTM to DEN; and the "add bike" section said "sold out" on each day. On one of these days I tried Galesburg to Denver; and it allowed me to book the bike. 

For those not familiar with the route OTM is in between GBB and DEN. So it appears that sold out bike space could, in rare instances, mean actually sold out; but mainly means no such service provided.


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## Thirdrail7 (May 18, 2019)

There is nothing indicating things have changed at OTM....except for the fact you can not seem to check bikes on the website.

At any rate, the baggage car equipped long distance trains that ply the NEC will now except bikes for NEC travel.


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## Pere Flyer (May 18, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> At any rate, the baggage car equipped long distance trains that ply the NEC will now except bikes for NEC travel.



That’s a wonderful development. Unfortunately it means those of us north of NYP still can only load our vélos on 65/66/67 to reach destinations on the corridor.


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## TiBike (May 19, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> At any rate, the baggage car equipped long distance trains that ply the NEC will now except bikes for NEC travel.



Is that outside of the usual checked baggage process? I'm not very familiar with the NEC. I looked at some of the PDF long distance schedules – I see there's no baggage service at Trenton, for example. Does this mean I'd be able to load/unload a bike at Trenton? Or is it something else?


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## TiBike (Aug 3, 2019)

spinnaker said:


> No reason at all why every Amtrak train should not have the same service. The Pennsylvanian has nothing at all. I have been wanting to take it to ride a bike trail out east but my only option is to pick another mode of transport or ship the bike ahead.



(Moving my reply to this thread).

I brought back one of these from Japan:



Packed like that, it's not immediately obvious to a non-cyclist that it's a bicycle (assuming you're not wearing a helmet and spandex ). It doesn't look more obnoxious than the supersized luggage, let alone the garbage bags and cardboard boxes full of stuff, that other passengers carry onboard. This kind of "rinko" bag is used to transport bikes on trains in Japan – even on the Shinkansen, which doesn't have much more extra room than an airliner.

I'm thinking a good test would be to ride down to Paso Robles, and see if I can get back to Salinas with it on the Starlight. I'd be placing myself at the mercy of whatever rules the crew wants to make up on the spot, but that's always the case on Amtrak. Plan B would be catching the later Thruway, which, being a bus, has soooo much more room for luggage than a ten car train.


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## IndyLions (Aug 3, 2019)

Dumb question: doesn’t the Starlight allow Roll-up service like I just experienced on the Capitol Limited?

Or is the issue the fact that the stop(s) you want to use don’t support baggage service?


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## TiBike (Aug 3, 2019)

Not a dumb question – Amtrak's bicycle policy and procedures are all over the map. The Starlight has roll up service: check it in at a staffed station, then walk it to the baggage car and hand it up to the conductor. But only at staffed stations with baggage service, and Paso Robles isn't staffed (Salinas is, though). There's great riding in the Paso Robles area (also in Truckee and Chico, two other big bike destinations Amtrak stiffs). From where I live it's either a long, hard one day or easy two day ride.


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## IndyLions (Aug 4, 2019)

TiBike said:


> Not a dumb question – Amtrak's bicycle policy and procedures are all over the map. The Starlight has roll up service: check it in at a staffed station, then walk it to the baggage car and hand it up to the conductor. But only at staffed stations with baggage service, and Paso Robles isn't staffed (Salinas is, though). There's great riding in the Paso Robles area (also in Truckee and Chico, two other big bike destinations Amtrak stiffs). From where I live it's either a long, hard one day or easy two day ride.



So if the States dictate it - they’ll allow bike roll-on service without any special equipment (racks, etc) in the cars.

But if it’s up to them alone (no states involved) - no roll-on without special equipment - ala that ridiculous setup where they removed half the booths from the lounge car for the most inefficient bike storage imaginable. Which had the side effect (more like collateral damage) of removing a significant benefit (booth space) from all passengers - including the bicyclists.

Since it doesn’t appear to be a state or legislative issue - who do we lobby at Amtrak to get that fixed?

It can’t be a “rules” issue - otherwise the states’ mandate wouldn’t matter.


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## TiBike (Aug 4, 2019)

There's been a claim that federal regulations regarding bicycles are different for long distance and corridor service, but no citation was given and I can't find any evidence of it. So yeah, until someone can point to an actual federal regulation that distinguishes between the two, it's fair to call BS on it. What does seem to be happening is that Amtrak runs in silos, where each little fiefdom has its own rules, which seem to be crafted to maximise employee comfort and convenience. Unless someone, like a state agency that writes the checks, intervenes.

Who to contact? Good question. With all that's going on, I doubt that anyone in congress or Amtrak's C-suite is going to get excited about it. All that's likely to happen is that it'll get conflated with the cooked-to-order steak dinner lobby. Better to break Amtrak up into corridors and let states, which pay at least some attention to the public, run the show.


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## IndyLions (Aug 7, 2019)

TiBike said:


> Better to break Amtrak up into corridors and let states, which pay at least some attention to the public, run the show.



Unless you live in IN like I do, and the state would rather pave 3 miles of road rather than pay for train service...


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## PaulM (Aug 7, 2019)

I'm planning a trip on the Silver Star, boarding in DC. Has anyone ever traveled in a a Viewliner sleeper with a folder? 

The only time I did it was on the LSL and I stored it in a coach luggage rack. Would an attendant in DC get an attack of bicycle derangement syndrome?


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## IndyLions (Sep 1, 2019)

*Another Great Chicago Day Trip...Way to Go Amtrak!*
Despite the demise of the Hoosier State - I managed to have another great experience this year on what (hopefully) is becoming an annual day trip to Chicago to ride my bike around the Windy City. In 2018, I took the Hoosier State after reading a press release stating that Amtrak had started allowing bicycles on board. Since the Hoosier State is now but a memory - I decided to give it a go on the Cardinal. After researching on Amtrak.com, I was surprised to learn that the Cardinal was a "roll-on" train for bicycles - and that I wouldn't have to get on-board the Cardinal in the hell hole that is the Indianapolis Bus-Train station - my closest station with Baggage Service. The Crawfordsville IN Amshack is my station of choice - and I would be able to roll my bike onboard just like I did on the Hoosier State last year.

Northbound - I was too late to acquire a Business Class ticket - so I sat in coach. They had me store the bike in the open area behind the last row of the Coach. It looked like they were ready for me - as the space was wide open and waiting. Because I held a Business Class ticket for the return - I had access to the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago - allowing me to change into my riding attire there. Surprisingly - when I asked the Met Lounge attendant if I could temporarily store my bike in the lounge during the change - he agreed to let me put it in the lounge's self-service baggage storage area. I was told later by a more senior attendant that his permission was in error - but I'll get to that later. So after a quick 10 minute change in the Met Lounge - I headed off for a spectacular day of riding the famous Lakeshore Trail - and this year on to Evanston IL to take a self-guided rolling tour of Northwestern University.

When I reached the Met Lounge several hours and 42 miles later - I was greeted by a more senior attendant who made it clear that there was no way he was letting the bicycle in the lounge. To his credit, however - he personally walked me to the Public Baggage Storage area and helped me stow my bicycle there at no charge. I then headed back to the lounge and once again availed myself of the shower facilities - which are excellent. Then an hour before departure - I went back and retrieved my bike. I parked myself (and my bike) outside the exit door of the Met Lounge so I could join the procession of Sleeper / BC passengers heading off to early boarding of the Cardinal when that time came.

When I got to the train - the Sleeper attendant was boarding the BC/First Class Passengers - and she was convinced that my bike needed to go in the Baggage Car. I was equally convinced it should not - and went and found the conductor at the other end of the train. He assured me that he'd send one of his colleagues my way and help me stow the bike onboard. He was good to his word - and the other conductor actually helped me get the bike on board (which he didn't have to do - my understanding is that I'm solely responsible for getting it onboard). He then pointed me to a location I didn't expect - a bike rack installed at the front of the BC Lounge. From a bicyclists perspective it's a great place to have your bike. From a rider's perspective in general it's not great - because they removed two booths from the BC lounge area to accommodate the bikes. I will say, however - that the remaining booths in the BC lounge area were never close to capacity during the trip south - so maybe it is not as inconvenient spot to BC passengers as I initially thought.

Other than a small amount of drama in the Met Lounge and in rebounding - I have nothing but kudos to Amtrak for their policy on the Cardinal and for the cooperation of the employees. Even the sleeping car attendant sought me out later to apologize that she was mistaken on the bike policy for the train. We shared a nice laugh over that.

Here are some photos of the trip...


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## IndyLions (Sep 1, 2019)

IndyLions said:


> ...ala that ridiculous setup where they removed half the booths from the lounge car for the most inefficient bike storage imaginable. Which had the side effect (more like collateral damage) of removing a significant benefit (booth space) from all passengers - including the bicyclists.



I'm amending my original position on taking the booths out for bike storage. If the booths removed are in the _BC lounge_ section of the train - my first hand experience is that those booths are lightly enough used that few if any passengers are being inconvenienced. I still think it is a lousy idea for the _regular Cafe Lounge_ which we all know is heavily used on nearly every long-distance train.

I'd still prefer a different approach - but this one worked for me and the other passengers on this recent trip on the Cardinal.


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## Pere Flyer (Sep 1, 2019)

Great report and photos, and glad you and your bike had a good experience!


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 17, 2019)

Starting next month, the Pennsylvanian will operate with a baggage car. Walk up bike service/baggage lite will be available at some of the stations.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 18, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Starting next month, the Pennsylvanian will operate with a baggage car. Walk up bike service/baggage lite will be available at some of the stations.


Now if they would add thru Cars to/from PGH for the Cap Ltd to/from CHI/PHL/NYP.


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