# Meals in the room?



## Wisconsinthunder (Jul 21, 2019)

Hello,

I have a Texas Eagle Superliner Roomette out of Los Angeles. 

I'd like to eat my included meals in my room. All of them. I plan to tell my attendant this when I get the chance. Is this acceptable? Also, I plan to just tp $1 to $2 after each meal. Maybe $5 for the last meal if it's been a satisfactory journey. I can't really afford more, unfortunately.

Is all this okay? I somehow worry about pushback or judgment for eating all my meals in my room.


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## pennyk (Jul 21, 2019)

In my opinion, it is OK to eat meals in your room, however, I would tip more than $1-2 for each meal. I would tip more than $5 per meal. The attendant is taking your order, delivering your order to the dining car, walking back to pick up the meal to deliver to you, then cleaning up.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 21, 2019)

pennyk said:


> In my opinion, it is OK to eat meals in your room, however, I would tip more than $1-2 for each meal. I would tip more than $5 per meal. The attendant is taking your order, delivering your order to the dining car, walking back to pick up the meal to deliver to you, then cleaning up.


And typically, tipping for meals is in addition to a tip just for the sleeping car attendant (if warranted) taking care your room and your requests.


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## spinnaker (Jul 21, 2019)

FrensicPic said:


> And typically, tipping for meals is in addition to a tip just for the sleeping car attendant (if warranted) taking care your room and your requests.




I really don't see what difference it makes as long as you consider the fact that you got special treatment with meal delivery when you tip at the end of the trip. That is what I do.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 21, 2019)

spinnaker said:


> I really don't see what difference it makes as long as you consider the fact that you got special treatment with meal delivery when you tip at the end of the trip. That is what I do.


If I ask my SCA to bring meals, I add a tip for the meals on top of (added to) the the regular per-person, per-night tip I would do anyway before the end of trip.
If I go to the diner for my meals, I tip at the table for each meal as in a restaurant but still tip the SCA his/her services for the sleeper service. 
You will find a lot of opinion here on AU regarding tipping so, I'll let go at that.


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## Sauve850 (Jul 21, 2019)

If i have a meal in my room and all is good i tip at that time. $1.00-$2.00 does not seem sufficient to me.


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## AG1 (Jul 21, 2019)

Wisconsinthunder, just a few facts mentioned in many threads here about tipping. 
Amtrak literature states that tipping is not required, but you may tip, if you want, for exceptional service. 
Amtrak literature also instructs employees not to solicit tips and to give full service to every customer. 
Amtrak customer service employees are well paid union members with great benefits for the service workers industry.They knowingly work the long hours for the compensation they receive. 
It is your decision how to spend your money , not the members of this forum.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 22, 2019)

Wisconsinthunder said:


> Hello, I have a Texas Eagle Superliner Roomette out of Los Angeles. I'd like to eat my included meals in my room. All of them. I plan to tell my attendant this when I get the chance. Is this acceptable? Also, I plan to just tp $1 to $2 after each meal. Maybe $5 for the last meal if it's been a satisfactory journey. I can't really afford more, unfortunately. Is all this okay? I somehow worry about pushback or judgment for eating all my meals in my room.


If all you have is $1-$2 dollars to tip then that's all you have. No amount of handwringing about social etiquette is going to put more money in your pocket.



pennyk said:


> In my opinion, it is OK to eat meals in your room, however, I would tip more than $1-2 for each meal. I would tip more than $5 per meal. The attendant is taking your order, delivering your order to the dining car, walking back to pick up the meal to deliver to you, then cleaning up.


If there were a way for a customer with limited funds to order and collect a takeaway meal on their own I might agree with you. Since Amtrak rules require the SCA to get involved with in-room dining, regardless of the customer's abilities or expectations, it becomes a bit of a gray area.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 22, 2019)

I don’t think I would tip $1 at a time for a service. Although I give a $1 to the redcap for literally putting a tag on my bag and rolling it into a closet and somehow I still feel cheap.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 22, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> If all you have is $1-$2 dollars to tip then that's all you have. No amount of handwringing about social etiquette is going to put more money in your pocket.



I don't think there is any good solution here to avoid tipping. Not having the cash to tip, does not by itself, give one permission to stiff the person of their due tip. In this case, whether you eat in your room or eat in the dining car, you still need to tip someone (either the SCA or the waitstaff serving you). Its part of the cost of going on the trip in Sleeper class.

It would be like going into a restaurant and enjoying a $50 meal. When the check comes, you only have $50 in your pocket, so its OK to not leave a tip? That's wrong. If you had only $50, you should have only had a $42 meal, and therefore, had enough to also leave a tip.


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## jebr (Jul 22, 2019)

Honestly, given that they can't really afford much more than a couple bucks for a tip per meal, I wonder if it'd be better to simply leave a bit larger tip at the end when detraining. A $20 tip at the end may look better than some $2 tips here and there with a $5 tip at the end.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 22, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I don't think there is any good solution here to avoid tipping. Not having the cash to tip, does not by itself, give one permission to stiff the person of their due tip. In this case, whether you eat in your room or eat in the dining car, you still need to tip someone (either the SCA or the waitstaff serving you). Its part of the cost of going on the trip in Sleeper class. It would be like going into a restaurant and enjoying a $50 meal. When the check comes, you only have $50 in your pocket, so its OK to not leave a tip? That's wrong. If you had only $50, you should have only had a $42 meal, and therefore, had enough to also leave a tip.


No permission is needed because a gratuity is always at the customer's discretion. Amtrak's position is that no tip should be expected or solicited and unlike a conventional restaurant they do pay a living wage and provide excellent benefits.



jebr said:


> Honestly, given that they can't really afford much more than a couple bucks for a tip per meal, I wonder if it'd be better to simply leave a bit larger tip at the end when detraining. A $20 tip at the end may look better than some $2 tips here and there with a $5 tip at the end.


Agreed, and if concerned about the reaction it would be fine to mention this plan when ordering the first meal.


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## Manny T (Jul 22, 2019)

Totally agree, it is better to tip at the end for all services received from the SCA during the course of the trip. Services will of course vary, depending on needs and per requests. Some meals delivered, some not. This should be reflected in the final tip. 

Tipping the SCA after every meal seems excessive. I think it's better to build a relationship with the SCA during the course of a trip, and then acknowledge all services performed at the end with your tip.


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## iliketrains (Jul 22, 2019)

Just book coach if you can not afford to tip both the attendant and the dining car staff. You will save a lot of money, I just looked at a possible trip. The sleeper fare was $534 but the coach fare was $174. And no tipping involved! You can take plenty of affordable delicious food onboard probably for less than $30. With the money saved you can add more fun activities for where you are going. Also if you book very far in advance the roomettes are super low and surprisingly not much higher than coach fares. With the lower cost you could tip the staff a higher amount. I suggest you wait until you can afford it if you absolutely must ride in a sleeper. Otherwise coach is a fantastic alternative.


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## AG1 (Jul 22, 2019)

iliketrains, Amtrak, just like the airlines, does not require tipping. Perhaps you did not know that. Do a search on the Amtrak site for the official answer if you don't believe it. You are free to tip all you want, but why are you telling the original poster to not book a sleeper if he "can not afford to tip both the attendant and dining staff".


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## TravelingGal (Jul 22, 2019)

A $5 tip should be sufficient for all meals. I think $1 or $2 is very cheapo. Better yet, just take coach and bring your own snacks. I''m a germophobe so I don't like eating out and you can never be sure about the cleanliness of food preparation when you eat out of someone else's kitchen, I like the peace of mind knowing that I prepared my own meals.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 22, 2019)

There is no requirement to tip on Amtrak. I don't think I've ever seen anyone tip an airline attendant and they are providing a similar service and are paid good.

As others have said.. just let the attendant know that you would like your meals in your room, and that you plan to tip them at the end for all their services and let that be that.


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## pennyk (Jul 22, 2019)

As has been stated previously, tipping is not required. However, it is customary. There have been many threads on AU on the topic of tipping and many differing opinions. Wisconsinthunder, in this thread, you are receiving the opinions of members (including mine). There is no right answer and there is no wrong answer with regard to tipping. The decision on how much to tip is entirely up to you.

Here are a few old threads of the hundreds on the topic of tipping (a few of which pertain to meals brought to one's room):
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-when-brought-meals.69697/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-sca-for-bringing-meal-to-room.44630/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-etiquette-for-food-brought-to-your-room.65892/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping.72386/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-suggestions.71278/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-protocol.67292/
https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/tipping-for-service.70061/


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## Asher (Jul 23, 2019)

After tipping $1.00 for breakfast you may not see the SCA for the rest of the day. Maybe best to tell the person you will catch up upon departing and then whatever you can afford will have to do.


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## iliketrains (Jul 23, 2019)

AG1 said:


> iliketrains, Amtrak, just like the airlines, does not require tipping. Perhaps you did not know that. Do a search on the Amtrak site for the official answer if you don't believe it. You are free to tip all you want, but why are you telling the original poster to not book a sleeper if he "can not afford to tip both the attendant and dining staff".



My apologies to the original poster.


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## AG1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Iliketrains, thanks for your response !


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## cruisegary (Jul 23, 2019)

pennyk said:


> ...The decision on how much to tip is entirely up to you.
> ...



In tipping threads here (and many other non-train boards) often ends up with this sort of statement. I find it of very little help for those trying to understand what they should tip. What that statement says is that no tip is totally okay. Many people do not have a clue what would be normal in various situations and ask to better understand. The above type of statement does not help these people at all, and encourages those of the non-tipping culture or persuasion that no tip is perfectly fine - even in places where people make a living off tips - wait staff in a restaurant for example.


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## AG1 (Jul 23, 2019)

pennyk said, " ----tipping is not required. However, it is customary". (post #18)

Yes, It was customary in the 1930-60s during the golden age of railroads with low paid mostly minorities as service employees.
However, today we have (reportedly) high paid union employees with great benefits that exceed the median income of the country.
I don't understand the justification of paying tips to employees who are well paid to do their assigned tasks as stated to the public in Amtrak literature just because, "it is customary"

Remember, some people can't give up smoking because it is customary !


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## jis (Jul 23, 2019)

The rule of thumb that I use for tipping on Amtrak are:

SCA - $0 - $10 per night

In the Diner
Breakfast - $0 - $3
Lunch - $0 - $4
Dinner - $0 - $5

In the Lounge
something like 10% of the purchase price if served with a smile. $0 otherwise.

I have never had food delivered to my room, so I do not have a personal record of what I have done.

There may be additional for exceptional service provided well above and beyond reasonable expectations. I am afraid $0 is not that uncommon an amount of tip actually given. Admittedly, I am not as generous based on "it is customary" as some others are here. Perhaps that is because I am not very good at sticking to customs in general.

So to the lady/gentleman who could afford to give only $2 as tips, it is absolutely fine. Ignore those who are getting on your case about it. Penny is right. You do not have to give a tip.


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## PerRock (Jul 23, 2019)

cruisegary said:


> In tipping threads here (and many other non-train boards) often ends up with this sort of statement. I find it of very little help for those trying to understand what they should tip. What that statement says is that no tip is totally okay. Many people do not have a clue what would be normal in various situations and ask to better understand. The above type of statement does not help these people at all, and encourages those of the non-tipping culture or persuasion that no tip is perfectly fine - even in places where people make a living off tips - wait staff in a restaurant for example.



I conducted a survey a few years ago on tipping with Amtrak. Here are the results from it:
Tipping Results


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## AG1 (Jul 23, 2019)

cruisegary, people here are being informed of their options on Amtrak not the local restaurant. The options include no tip (perfectly okay as officially not required by Amtrak just like the airlines) or tip ( perfectly fine, amount up to you).
That is a 100% free choice of the rider and should be understandable to most people .


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 23, 2019)

cruisegary said:


> Many people do not have a clue what would be normal in various situations and ask to better understand. The above type of statement does not help these people at all, and encourages those of the non-tipping culture or persuasion that no tip is perfectly fine - even in places where people make a living off tips - wait staff in a restaurant for example.


Saying the decision is up to you is a simple statement of fact. Several data points have been included in this thread and there are hundreds more included in the other threads she linked.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 23, 2019)

pennyk said:


> As has been stated previously, tipping is not required. However, it is customary.



True that one is never required to tip anyone; be it the LSA, the SCA, the red cap, the cabbie, the waitstaff, the bell hop, and so on.

To me, it is that the OP is looking for validation from us (me?) to go ahead and stiff people who provide them a personal service. Sorry, folks, but I am certainly doing to provide such general/global validation and I think it is irresponsible to do so.

I don't buy, the "am rich enough to travel sleeper class, but too poor to appropriately tip anyone".


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## cruisegary (Jul 23, 2019)

So, maybe we should tip the engineer too?


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 23, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> To me, it is that the OP is looking for validation from us (me?) to go ahead and stiff people who provide them a personal service. Sorry, folks, but I am certainly doing to provide such general/global validation and I think it is irresponsible to do so. I don't buy, the "am rich enough to travel sleeper class, but too poor to appropriately tip anyone".


Aren't you the same person who complained about customers insulting your daughter by handing over tips in the form of dollar coins and $2 bills?

Yep, looks like I found it...



Cho Cho Charlie said:


> My kid is now in the restaurant business, and I can tell you that leaving something really odd like a $2 bill is definitely not appreciated. The reality is they can't do anything with such, and because of it, the $2 bill will just get tossed into a drawer or box. Leaving a $2 bill, or a $1 coin, is worse than leaving no tip at all, and writing "FU" on the check. You'll be badly remembered by the table help, if you should ever dare to return.


Reading obnoxiously entitled posts such as these doesn't make me want to tip more money.


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## Chey (Jul 23, 2019)

I am not financially well-endowed. I therefore ride the rails - in sleeping accommodations (roomette) - every 2-3 years. I budget for the ride, including tips. The tips I leave at the diner car are half what I leave if the SCA brings my meal to my room. I really don't care how well the employee who serviced me is compensated. What I care about is the service I receive, that's how I tip.


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## SarahZ (Jul 23, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> To me, it is that the OP is looking for validation from us (me?) to go ahead and stiff people who provide them a personal service.



The OP is not "stiffing" the car attendant simply because the amount they plan to tip is beneath what you deem socially acceptable. Stiffing would be not leaving a tip at all.

Additionally, as DA stated, the car attendants are paid quite well for their service. This isn't the local Applebee's where a server isn't going to be able to pay their rent if I don't tip 15-20%. As such, tipping $2 per meal instead of $5 is _completely_ acceptable.

Also, those of you ripping into the OP for booking a sleeper when they can't afford to tip as much as you would:

- How do you know they don't have a condition that would make traveling in coach extremely difficult?
- How do you know a family member or friend didn't pay for the room?
- How do you know this room wasn't booked with points?
- How does tipping $2 instead of $5 for a few meals magically turn someone into a cretin who should be shunned from a service they are *100% entitled to*? (I mean, for crying out loud. I'll send the person $20 to make up the difference if it will get you off their back, because _come on now_.)

OP - I hope you have a LOVELY trip full of wonderful memories and grand adventures.


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## PerRock (Jul 23, 2019)

SarahZ said:


> The OP is not "stiffing" the car attendant simply because the amount they plan to tip is beneath what you deem socially acceptable. Stiffing would be not leaving a tip at all.



Having worked in the tip-based industry in my passed; getting small change we often felt was worse than getting nothing. I was a valet, we averaged $2-5/car; I would much rather be not given anything than to have someone just toss me a hand full of pennies & nickels. 

That being said, we almost fought over the $2 bills & $1 coins. 

peter


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## Wisconsinthunder (Jul 24, 2019)

OP here. Thank you everyone for your responses.

I ended up just eating in the dining car and tipping the wait staff there. I actually had no interaction at all with my sleeping car attendant. Frankly, I was put off by not knowing how to tip so I didn't ask for anything. Then, I saw a coach attendant getting ice and drinks for their passengers without receiving any tips. Ha, go figure.

I will say that I always tip at restaurants and that interaction makes sense to me. Also, I've ridden coach all my life and this was my first sleeper/Roomette trip. I loved it, and will be a repeat customer. The trip has been incredibly comfortable and pleasant.


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## AG1 (Jul 24, 2019)

Wisconsinthunder, glad you enjoyed your trip ! Could you give us your feelings about tipping Amtrak waiters making $25 an hour versus restaurants paying wait staff minimum wage $7.75 an hour plus shared tips.


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## Wisconsinthunder (Jul 24, 2019)

Ha! Well, that's more than I make, which absolutely puts things in perspective. I definitely appreciate everyone who stuck up for my question and my right to ride in a Roomette.

I will say that there were times on this trip when I would've asked for help if I'd known it was okay to do so without tipping. And, there were meals in the dining car that I tipped after even though service was poor. That said, some of my other tips I feel good about having given because my order came quickly and accurately. 

I hope to take another sleeper car trip in December and after this trip and reading everyone's input I will be more confident in my ability to choose when to tip or not.


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## caravanman (Jul 24, 2019)

AG1 said:


> Wisconsinthunder, glad you enjoyed your trip ! Could you give us your feelings about tipping Amtrak waiters making $25 an hour versus restaurants paying wait staff minimum wage $7.75 an hour plus shared tips.



Is it that you begrudge Amtrak employees earning a good wage for their many hours away from home, or are you annoyed that some Americans have to work for $7.75 an hour in the richest country in the world? 

I will say that as a foreigner, the "tipping culture" in the US is annoying, although restaurant staff expect tips this side of the pond too. Bar tenders not at all. The way "tax" is added to so many prices, after the cost is advertised is often a nasty surprise too!
Ed


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 24, 2019)

If a waiter is earning minimum wage, that is equal to other, non-tipped employees like at a fast food restaurant. Most servers make LESS than minimum wage because they are supppsed to make up for it in tips. A terrible practice that is thankfully ending in some areas of the USA but not all.


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## Rasputin (Jul 24, 2019)

Wisconsinthunder,

Glad to hear you had a great trip and enjoyed your roomette. I don't believe you are under any obligation to explain or defend how you spent your money on this trip. (Well at least if it was your money. If you robbed a bank or stole money from your grandmother, you might have some explaining to do, but otherwise no.)


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## seat38a (Jul 24, 2019)

crescent-zephyr said:


> If a waiter is earning minimum wage, that is equal to other, non-tipped employees like at a fast food restaurant. Most servers make LESS than minimum wage because they are supppsed to make up for it in tips. A terrible practice that is thankfully ending in some areas of the USA but not all.



California does not have this nonsense. I don't know if it ever did, but waitstaff must all get minimum wage regardless of tips. When my friends and I were waiting tables while in college, we all raked in lots of tips which were all paid out at the end of each shift in cash. Paychecks itself were tiny like $20 dollars or less because that is where all of the taxes were deducted from. So I guess in theory in states that do not require minimum wage for waitstaff, they would still owe the government??


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## PerRock (Jul 24, 2019)

seat38a said:


> California does not have this nonsense. I don't know if it ever did, but waitstaff must all get minimum wage regardless of tips. When my friends and I were waiting tables while in college, we all raked in lots of tips which were all paid out at the end of each shift in cash. Paychecks itself were tiny like $20 dollars or less because that is where all of the taxes were deducted from. So I guess in theory in states that do not require minimum wage for waitstaff, they would still owe the government??



You're supposed to pay taxes on almost all income; wages, or tips it doesn't really matter to the government.

peter


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## seat38a (Jul 24, 2019)

PerRock said:


> You're supposed to pay taxes on almost all income; wages, or tips it doesn't really matter to the government.
> 
> peter


Well thats a given. Let me clarify my question. Do employers with tipped employees in states without minimum wage for them, collect from the employees things like FICA and etc. directly from their tips or do the employees reconcile it themselves with the government like self employeed do quarterly if their paycheck isn't enough to cover all of the taxes owed? I ask because there is an underpayment penalty the IRS/States imposes which would suck if the employee got hit with it.


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## greatwestern (Jul 24, 2019)

Like caravanman, as another "foreigner" I too find the US tipping culture annoying. Just because someone is doing their job properly should not mean that a tip should be customary.

The service given by the cafe car attendant on Amtrak is *to me* not a lot different to the service given at a McDonalds counter (I usually receive polite and pleasant attention in both situations). So why is it customary to tip one but not the other ?

Despite these comments, I do tend to tip on Amtrak, but I do have a job reconciling my rationale - probably just wanting to fit in with local culture !!


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## PerRock (Jul 24, 2019)

seat38a said:


> Well thats a given. Let me clarify my question. Do employers with tipped employees in states without minimum wage for them, collect from the employees things like FICA and etc. directly from their tips or do the employees reconcile it themselves with the government like self employeed do quarterly if their paycheck isn't enough to cover all of the taxes owed? I ask because there is an underpayment penalty the IRS/States imposes which would suck if the employee got hit with it.



Different states & different companies are different. The company I worked for, when I worked for tips, you were supposed to report all your tips to them & they'd take the required amount out of your paycheck. That being said in practice the vast majority of my coworkers reported no tips to the company & didn't claim them on their taxes either.

I believe in most cases you report your tip earnings to your employer & go down that route. This is usually because the company has to be able to prove that their employees are making up the remaining of the gap to minimum wage in tips.

peter


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## JayPea (Jul 24, 2019)

Rasputin said:


> Wisconsinthunder,
> 
> Glad to hear you had a great trip and enjoyed your roomette. I don't believe you are under any obligation to explain or defend how you spent your money on this trip. (Well at least if it was your money. If you robbed a bank or stole money from your grandmother, you might have some explaining to do, but otherwise no.)



I agree. It's nobody's business how you spend your money. If I want to tip I'm going to tip, regardless of the wage that is paid to the person I'm tipping. I have never understood why that should be anyone's business but mine.


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## seat38a (Jul 24, 2019)

JayPea said:


> I agree. It's nobody's business how you spend your money. If I want to tip I'm going to tip, regardless of the wage that is paid to the person I'm tipping. I have never understood why that should be anyone's business but mine.


Well the OP did make it our business by starting this post and asked the question which I quote:
"Is all this okay?"
If its not our business then maybe the OP shouldn't ask the forum for either validation or diapproval in the first place.


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## caravanman (Jul 24, 2019)

I am not up to speed about whether tips are taxed the same as wages or not. I assume the way some hotels add a massive "resort fee" to a low hotel rate means that the "resort fee" is not taxed? 
Ed.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 24, 2019)

JayPea said:


> I agree. It's nobody's business how you spend your money. If I want to tip I'm going to tip, regardless of the wage that is paid to the person I'm tipping. I have never understood why that should be anyone's business but mine.


Did you read the opening post? The OP laid out their plans and then asked for feedback. The OP didn't do anything wrong and neither did the members who responded. The only way your personal tipping habits will become anybody else's business is if you _choose_ to bring them up.



caravanman said:


> I am not up to speed about whether tips are taxed the same as wages or not. I assume the way some hotels add a massive "resort fee" to a low hotel rate means that the "resort fee" is not taxed? Ed.


A resort fee is a surcharge. It has nothing to do with income tax law.


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## caravanman (Jul 25, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> A resort fee is a surcharge. It has nothing to do with income tax law.



I just wonder why it is a surcharge? It is not an optional item, one is obliged to pay a resort fee when booking certain hotels, there must be some advantage to the hotel to split the fee in this way? Maybe not for income tax, but maybe for some other room tax advantage to themselves?

Ed


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## jebr (Jul 25, 2019)

caravanman said:


> I just wonder why it is a surcharge? It is not an optional item, one is obliged to pay a resort fee when booking certain hotels, there must be some advantage to the hotel to split the fee in this way? Maybe not for income tax, but maybe for some other room tax advantage to themselves?
> 
> Ed



It's mainly to show a cheaper price on third party hotel websites. They can advertise that their hotel is "Only $49/night!" but still get $70+/night in revenue (assuming a $30+/night hotel resort fee.)


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## spinnaker (Jul 25, 2019)

caravanman said:


> I am not up to speed about whether tips are taxed the same as wages or not. I assume the way some hotels add a massive "resort fee" to a low hotel rate means that the "resort fee" is not taxed?
> Ed.




Of course tips are taxed. In fact some states force servers to pay taxes on 15% of their receipts, if they get a tip or not.

Kind of unfair but I guess it also discourages cheating.


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## TravelingGal (Jul 25, 2019)

A few years ago I walked into a consignment shop in Charleston, SC and they had a tip jar on the counter. Why would a consignment shop have a tip jar? Tip jars/tipping has gotten out of hand so I can sort of understand why many people are turned off by it. When I stay at a hotel, I tip the housekeeper. They get about 20-25 bucks per hour but they work hard. I will probably never be in a position to be on roomette in an Amtrak but if I were then I would probably feel pressured to tip.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 25, 2019)

TravelingGal said:


> A few years ago I walked into a consignment shop in Charleston, SC and they had a tip jar on the counter. Why would a consignment shop have a tip jar? Tip jars/tipping has gotten out of hand so I can sort of understand why many people are turned off by it. When I stay at a hotel, I tip the housekeeper. They get about 20-25 bucks per hour but they work hard. I will probably never be in a position to be on roomette in an Amtrak but if I were then I would probably feel pressured to tip.


Where in the US do Hotel Housekeepers get $20-$25 an Hour? We all need to have a job there if Wages are that good!

Mostly Housekeepers make Minimim Wage or Less in most places, and I've always tipped them also!


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## ehbowen (Jul 25, 2019)

Bob Dylan said:


> Where in the US do Hotel Housekeepers get $20-$25 an Hour? We all need to have a job there if Wages are that good!
> 
> Mostly Housekeepers make Minimim Wage or Less in most places, and I've always tipped them also!



I work in a hotel as a licensed stationary engineer (boiler/HVAC systems operator), which is one of the higher paid non-management positions, and I don't even make $25 an hour!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 25, 2019)

caravanman said:


> I just wonder why it is a surcharge? It is not an optional item, one is obliged to pay a resort fee when booking certain hotels, there must be some advantage to the hotel to split the fee in this way? Maybe not for income tax, but maybe for some other room tax advantage to themselves?


As mentioned resort fees allow hotels to advertise lower prices at booking before collecting higher prices at check-out, although this is by no means limited to aggregate sales sites. Resort fees can also be to used to claw back lost revenue on reward stays and as leverage when dealing with disputes. Waiving a supplementary resort fee gives hotels the flexibility to appear contrite without giving back the room rate. A reference to resort fees is supposed to be mentioned during the booking process but in my experience that's not always the case. Even when the fee is mentioned it's often handled in vague terms with small text that is likely to be missed unless you take the time to go looking for it.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 25, 2019)

spinnaker said:


> Of course tips are taxed. In fact some states force servers to pay taxes on 15% of their receipts, if they get a tip or not.
> 
> Kind of unfair but I guess it also discourages cheating.


Jeez, which states do that? That's terrible.


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## Asher (Jul 25, 2019)

Wisconsinthunder said:


> OP here. Thank you everyone for your responses.
> 
> I ended up just eating in the dining car and tipping the wait staff there. I actually had no interaction at all with my sleeping car attendant. Frankly, I was put off by not knowing how to tip so I didn't ask for anything. Then, I saw a coach attendant getting ice and drinks for their passengers without receiving any tips. Ha, go figure.
> 
> I will say that I always tip at restaurants and that interaction makes sense to me. Also, I've ridden coach all my life and this was my first sleeper/Roomette trip. I loved it, and will be a repeat customer. The trip has been incredibly comfortable and pleasant.


And a good time was had by all!


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## seat38a (Jul 25, 2019)

spinnaker said:


> Of course tips are taxed. In fact some states force servers to pay taxes on 15% of their receipts, if they get a tip or not.
> 
> Kind of unfair but I guess it also discourages cheating.



Which State is that? Even the IRS isn't that cruel. They only require 8%(When I worked) of sales.


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## ehbowen (Jul 26, 2019)

I last worked as a waiter twenty years ago, in 1999. I was paid $2.20 an hour, and I had to pay the restaurant 3.5% of my gross sales which they used to pay busboys, cooks, and bartenders. They called it "tip pooling"; basically, it meant that they didn't have to pay anyone. Essentially I was working for tips alone and the restaurant was supposed to make up the difference if I didn't make minimum wage...but I got stiffed more than once and they never did.


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## seat38a (Jul 26, 2019)

ehbowen said:


> I last worked as a waiter twenty years ago, in 1999. I was paid $2.20 an hour, and I had to pay the restaurant 3.5% of my gross sales which they used to pay busboys, cooks, and bartenders. They called it "tip pooling"; basically, it meant that they didn't have to pay anyone. Essentially I was working for tips alone and the restaurant was supposed to make up the difference if I didn't make minimum wage...but I got stiffed more than once and they never did.



Ah yes, the good ole getting stiffed. My friends and I who worked in the industry used to despise summers since thats when foreign tourists would flock into town culturally ignorant to our customs. Due to this same issue, pretty much anywhere in South Florida was automatically slapping tips onto the check last time I was there. 

Couple years ago, when I was eating in San Francisco Chinatown, the owner's wife, who was also the server had no qualms about chasing down a group of French Tourists and sternly explaining, "We tip in this country!" The owner of the restaurant that I was working at wasn't that bold.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 26, 2019)

seat38a said:


> My friends and I who worked in the industry used to despise summers since thats when foreign tourists would flock into town culturally ignorant to our customs.


The cultural custom of blaming customers for punitive employment rules?



seat38a said:


> Couple years ago, when I was eating in San Francisco Chinatown, the owner's wife, who was also the server had no qualms about chasing down a group of French Tourists and sternly explaining, "We tip in this country!" The owner of the restaurant that I was working at wasn't that bold.


So she was bold enough to run after people demanding a gratuity but not bold enough to simply raise prices to fair market value?


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## Qapla (Jul 26, 2019)

The interesting thing is, in the US, since tipping is "permitted" to be included as part of a persons "pay rate" towards "minimum wage"- most businesses will do that when setting servers pay rate. The thing is, there is nothing that says tips "have" to be part of the minimum you can pay your servers. If a place of business paid their servers a "professional wage" the servers would not need to "rely" on tips as part of their wage ... it would truly be "extra money" as it is supposed to be.


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## AG1 (Jul 26, 2019)

The OP asked about Amtrak meals in room and tipping. The OP finished his trip and reported back to the forum.
Why are people going off track and continuing on irrelevant low wage restaurant tipping ? 
Moderators ?


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> The interesting thing is, in the US, since tipping is "permitted" to be included as part of a persons "pay rate" towards "minimum wage"- most businesses will do that when setting servers pay rate. The thing is, there is nothing that says tips "have" to be part of the minimum you can pay your servers. If a place of business paid their servers a "professional wage" the servers would not need to "rely" on tips as part of their wage ... it would truly be "extra money" as it is supposed to be.


That's the way I would like it to work, but under the current rules an employer who agrees to a base wage at minimum wage level can also choose to simply confiscate all tips since the employer's wage obligations are already met. The rules and particulars vary by state but so long as these terms are included in the hiring process and so long as a written advisory is located in a customer facing area it's perfectly legal to simply seize all service related gratuities provided to front line staff. That was one of the complaints lodged against the infamous Amy's Baking Company featured on Kitchen Nightmares.


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## flitcraft (Jul 26, 2019)

spinnaker said:


> Of course tips are taxed. In fact some states force servers to pay taxes on 15% of their receipts, if they get a tip or not.



Actually, this is true nationally. The IRS has implemented specific rules for those businesses where tips are expected. (Note that casinos have their own IRS rules--these just apply to non-gambling industries where tips often occur like restaurants, beauty salons, hotels, cabs, etc. )

Employers in these industries have two options--a Tip Rate Determination Agreement, where the IRS and the employer work out an imputed tip rate for their employees based on employer past experience with tipping in that industry. Employees where there is a TRDA must report that rate on their income taxes, or a higher amount if that is what they receive. Of course, this has implications for the employer as well, since they are assessed Social Security and Medicare taxes on the imputed rate as a base rate, and a higher rate if it turns out the the TRDA under-estimates actual tips. 

The second option is that the employer can develop a Tip Reporting Alternative Commitment, whereby the employer must develop a procedure to accurately determine employee tips and must train employees about their obligation to accurately report them as income. 

While small mom-and-pop outfits may fly below the IRS radar, I can't imagine that Amtrak doesn't have either a TRDA or a TRAC. My guess would be the former, since it is the easiest for the employer. So, while individuals at any establishment can choose to tip or not without a risk that they'll be chased down for non-payment, it is not accurate to say that the employee who has not received a tip doesn't get penalized at tax time.


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## Qapla (Jul 26, 2019)

The fact remains ... just because the employer and the employee agrees to work under a system that includes tips as part of the employees wage does NOT put the customer under "compulsion" to tip when they have paid the actual bill in full.

Now, if you eat at or use the services of a business that states clearly they add a "gratuity" to the bill - by using that service you have agreed to pay the additional fee (tip). There is not anything in your ticket agreement that "requires" you to tip an Amtrak employee. If you want to tip one, that should be your choice - not something you need to do to get the service they are supposed to give based on their wage ... think about it, how many people head to the train engine to tip the engineer for getting you to your stop - especially when they get you there safely and on-time?


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> If you eat at or use the services of a business that states clearly they add a "gratuity" to the bill - by using that service you have agreed to pay the additional fee (tip).


So far as I am aware, the customer is never obligated to pay a gratuity. Even in a situation where an establishment chooses to assign a gratuity ahead of time, and prints this policy as a warning on the menu, the gratuity itself must remain reversible if the customer insists. That being said, in the context of a social contract I would agree a customer who orders off such a menu has accepted an _expectation_ to pay.



Qapla said:


> How many people head to the train engine to tip the engineer for getting you to your stop - especially when they get you there safely and on-time?


I did try to tip an Amtrak conductor once, mainly as thanks for something he had done to resolve a problem, but he refused. At first I was surprised but then I remembered that I'd feel pretty weird if someone tried to tip me at work. Even in jobs where tipping is customary it's still an odd dynamic. One time I was at a bar watching a game and the customer next to me left a tip of $100 on $40 worth of cocktails. It looked they probably wanted something more than another drink but the bartender simply smiled and took the money before pouring the next one like it was any other day.


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## ehbowen (Jul 27, 2019)

seat38a said:


> Couple years ago, when I was eating in San Francisco Chinatown, the owner's wife, who was also the server had no qualms about chasing down a group of French Tourists and sternly explaining, "We tip in this country!" The owner of the restaurant that I was working at wasn't that bold.



I would never do something like that. I believe in being professional, even when customers are taking advantage of you. Not saying that I like it, but I do it.

True story: The first time I worked as a waiter was back in 1981, in the days where you paid at the register and if there wasn't a tip on the table, then there wasn't a tip. I was hosting a large birthday party for several children, with hot dogs and ice cream sundaes and all the trimmings. When the party left to pay, there was no tip left behind. One of the other servers suggested that I go up to the father before he left and make an insulting remark. I wouldn't do it. It was only later that I found out that, since it was a large party, he had made arrangements in advance to pay by personal check and had included a very generous tip in the total amount. If I had followed my co-worker's suggestion and said something cutting I would have insulted the customer and put myself in a lot of trouble. It may not be easy to be professional...but it's always the right thing to do.


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## Asher (Jul 27, 2019)

I try to make it a point to never discuss money. From this day forward I'm including tips.


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## Georgie (Sep 26, 2020)

Do you tip your flight attendants? They are low income union workers too. As someone with decades in customer service/hospitality/airlines industries in several countries, I used to be great console-tipper. However, after my experiences on Amtrak ... only if someone goes above the expectations of their job will I tip. I feel a little bad, but I am not going to reward poor service.  Who agrees?


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## Maglev (Sep 26, 2020)

I gave a $20 tip to an SCA who gave poor service. The look of shock on his face was priceless!


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## crescent-zephyr (Sep 26, 2020)

In the past, I have tipped in Amtrak Dining Cars for poor service in hopes of receiving better service on future meals. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Now it doesn't matter of course (and no I will not tip an LSA for handing me a yogurt at breakfast.)


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## Sidney (Sep 26, 2020)

Tipping these days with the flex dining is not quite the same as tipping when full service dining was available


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## MARC Rider (Sep 26, 2020)

AG1 said:


> Yes, It was customary in the 1930-60s during the golden age of railroads with low paid mostly minorities as service employees.
> However, today we have (reportedly) high paid union employees with great benefits that exceed the median income of the country.


After the Wagner Act of the 1930's, the low paid mostly minority service workers on the railroads rapidly unionized and got collective bargaining agreements, so by the 1960s, they were probably being paid more. And back then, even ununionized food service employees were being paid enough to live on, yet it was still customary to tip them. Tips were an expression of appreciation for the service, not a way to have the customer subsidize a living wage that the employer should be providing in the first place.

As far as Amtrak employee compensation, according to Glassdoor, Average wage of an Amtrak service attendant is $22/hr, or about $44,000 annualized (assuming they have full-time hours). While this is above the median individual income of the country, it's not that much above it, and I'd hate to have to live on a $44,000 annual salary, even with the other employment benefits. Maybe if I was in my 20s, and I knew that there was a career ladder that would have me earning a lot more than that...


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## pennyk (Sep 26, 2020)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please keep in mind that this thread was started in July 2019 with a question about the Texas Eagle, which train was serving traditional dining meals at that time. Now, in September 2020, meals are very different.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 26, 2020)

caravanman said:


> I am not up to speed about whether tips are taxed the same as wages or not. I assume the way some hotels add a massive "resort fee" to a low hotel rate means that the "resort fee" is not taxed?
> Ed.


Well, of course it's not taxed. The "resort fee" goes to the corporation operating the hotel, and corporations have all kinds of ways to keep from paying taxes.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 26, 2020)

jebr said:


> It's mainly to show a cheaper price on third party hotel websites. They can advertise that their hotel is "Only $49/night!" but still get $70+/night in revenue (assuming a $30+/night hotel resort fee.)


$49/night!!?? or even $70+/night!!?? How long ago was the last time you booked a hotel room?


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## crescent-zephyr (Sep 26, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> $49/night!!?? or even $70+/night!!?? How long ago was the last time you booked a hotel room?



Those prices are common in Las Vegas. I paid $35 a night for the Linq (Owned by harrahs, nice modern casino right on the strip). That was July 4th week, 2019 when it was quite crowded. Of course the resort fees are steep!


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## toddinde (Sep 27, 2020)

OK, if you don’t tip, you’re a cheap skate. Dining cars, when they come back, 20% of the price of the meal if you had paid for it. The fact that it was included doesn’t mean you can leave a buck. Service attendant, $20. Just because workers are in a Union doesn’t mean you don’t tip. Try that in Vegas or New York where they’re all in the hotel and restaurant workers union. Yes, you tip!


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## toddinde (Sep 27, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> After the Wagner Act of the 1930's, the low paid mostly minority service workers on the railroads rapidly unionized and got collective bargaining agreements, so by the 1960s, they were probably being paid more. And back then, even ununionized food service employees were being paid enough to live on, yet it was still customary to tip them. Tips were an expression of appreciation for the service, not a way to have the customer subsidize a living wage that the employer should be providing in the first place.
> 
> As far as Amtrak employee compensation, according to Glassdoor, Average wage of an Amtrak service attendant is $22/hr, or about $44,000 annualized (assuming they have full-time hours). While this is above the median individual income of the country, it's not that much above it, and I'd hate to have to live on a $44,000 annual salary, even with the other employment benefits. Maybe if I was in my 20s, and I knew that there was a career ladder that would have me earning a lot more than that...


And be gone from your family for days at a time, and working at least twelve hour days. Plus, you have lots of people who think it’s the 20th Century Limited. Those folks should fly sometime. Even in first class, the service is spotty. For some reason, Amtrak is held to an unrealistic standard. I was on the Deutsche Bahn one time, and the waitress snatched the menu from my hand and stormed off because my German wasn’t very good. Amtrak’s pretty good.


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## jiml (Sep 27, 2020)

toddinde said:


> I was on the Deutsche Bahn one time, and the waitress snatched the menu from my hand and stormed off because my German wasn’t very good.


Wow, I've taken a number of trips on DB and find that surprising. First, because their service is pretty good, and secondly because they take the trouble to make on-board announcements in both German and English (+ Dutch if traversing the Netherlands), so obviously realize some of their clientele might not speak German. I'm not sure I'd take one experience with an employee having an "off" day there any more seriously than on Amtrak or anywhere else.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 27, 2020)

Actually, I tipped in the traditional -service dining car, but not as much as I'd tip a server who works in some place where they're on the reduced tipped minimum wage. If the service were exceptional, I'd tip the usual 15% cash, 18% on credit card. If I ever had a meal delivered to my room, I'd add the tip to the total tip I give the SCA at the end of the trip. Again, the amount would depend on the quality of service, and the amount for routine service might be a bot less. I'm not sure how I came up with this scheme, I'd really prefer our culture to change to strict "no tipping," and higher wages for the service people, even if it means higher prices on the consumer end. (We're paying the higher prices already, anyway and calculating and dealing with tips is a pain in the neck.)

Anyway, that's just how I handle it. As has been mentioned, no tipping at all is required, per Amtrak policy.


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## Nick Farr (Sep 27, 2020)

jiml said:


> Wow, I've taken a number of trips on DB and find that surprising.



Same here. I've had surly older DB staff in the former East Germany (i.e. around Leipzig), for sure. However, having roughly the same mileage on DB as Amtrak in my life (albeit on much shorter trips in Europe) the service on DB is much more courteous and consistent on the whole.

I've never had a DB staff member bark at me for doing something wrong. I have had Amtrak OBS bark at me for not waiting for them at the end of the dining car, then bark at me for not coming to the middle of the car to speak to them for my table assignment on the same trip.


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## Dakota 400 (Sep 27, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> I'd really prefer our culture to change to strict "no tipping,"



Many years ago, Holland America Line had a "No Tipping Required" policy. There was debate about that policy among the guests then with some guests--if not many guests--providing gratuities to our Cabin Stewards and Dining Room Stewards. I did and I witnessed others doing so as well. 

It's my understanding that the 5 and 5+ Star luxury cruise lines currently have that policy. I wonder, though, what percentage of their guests still provide a gratuity to those who serve them.


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## crescent-zephyr (Sep 27, 2020)

Amtrak has a “no tipping required” policy as well. As do the airlines.


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## hlcteacher (Sep 27, 2020)

how is anyone ever "due" a tip, do your job for the pay agreed upon when you took the job


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## niemi24s (Sep 27, 2020)

Oh goody. Another thread degenerated into the subject of tipping.


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## railiner (Sep 27, 2020)

niemi24s said:


> Oh goody. Another thread degenerated into the subject of tipping.


Reminds me of Cruise Critic's....
The "hot button" subjects there are: tipping, dress code, 'chair hogs', and smoking policies...discussed over and over thru the years, and regurgitated whenever a new member brings up the subject...


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## crescent-zephyr (Sep 27, 2020)

railiner said:


> Reminds me of Cruise Critic's....
> The "hot button" subjects there are: tipping, dress code, 'chair hogs', and smoking policies...discussed over and over thru the years, and regurgitated whenever a new member brings up the subject...



That reminds me we haven’t had a good “Lounge lizard” or “don’t wear hats in the diner” debate for a while now!


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## MARC Rider (Sep 28, 2020)

hlcteacher said:


> how is anyone ever "due" a tip, do your job for the pay agreed upon when you took the job


When the "agreed-upon pay" is so inadequate that receiving tips is required fr the service worker to make a reasonable wage for the job. After all, service workers (most workers, in fact) don't really have enough power to insist on a proper wage, and, further, most of them don't have enough wealth that they can afford to not take jobs that are offered.

Maybe Amtrak OBS are paid well enough that they don't "deserve" tips to supplement their wages, but that's our culture, and perhaps getting a supplement for above average service is worthwhile to encourage above-average service.


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## Noble724 (Sep 28, 2020)

toddinde said:


> OK, if you don’t tip, you’re a cheap skate. Dining cars, when they come back, 20% of the price of the meal if you had paid for it. The fact that it was included doesn’t mean you can leave a buck. Service attendant, $20. Just because workers are in a Union doesn’t mean you don’t tip. Try that in Vegas or New York where they’re all in the hotel and restaurant workers union. Yes, you tip!





toddinde said:


> OK, if you don’t tip, you’re a cheap skate. Dining cars, when they come back, 20% of the price of the meal if you had paid for it. The fact that it was included doesn’t mean you can leave a buck. Service attendant, $20. Just because workers are in a Union doesn’t mean you don’t tip. Try that in Vegas or New York where they’re all in the hotel and restaurant workers union. Yes, you tip!


I tip for good service. I'm hesitant to tip for the mere presence of a person.


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## PaulM (Sep 29, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> If there were a way for a customer with limited funds to order and collect a takeaway meal on their own I might agree with you. Since Amtrak rules require the SCA to get involved with in-room dining, regardless of the customer's abilities or expectations, it becomes a bit of a gray area.


Based on a recent CZ trip, I would say that the virus has temporarily, at least, rescinded the rule you site. While we were sitting at a table waiting for our food, the attendant handed out quite of few large, filled paper bags to passengers, who proceeded to take them back to the sleepers.


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## crescent-zephyr (Sep 29, 2020)

PaulM said:


> Based on a recent CZ trip, I would say that the virus has temporarily, at least, rescinded the rule you site. While we were sitting at a table waiting for our food, the attendant handed out quite of few large, filled paper bags to passengers, who proceeded to take them back to the sleepers.



As usual, it seems like every crew is making up their own system. My understanding (which may or may not be correct) is that you are supposed to order your food to be delivered to your room by the SCA, OR you can choose to pick up the food and eat in the diner.

At least that’s how it was explained to me on the silver meteor.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 29, 2020)

I was on the CZ last week, CHI-DEN and DEN-CHI. I had dinner in the diner on #1105 and the LSA brought the meals to our tables. The SCAs delivered the "in room" meals. I did not have dinner on #6 because I had had a late lunch, so don't know how dinner was handled by that crew.

The Cardinal, in both directions, did not allow us to eat in the diner-lite. The SCAs on a both of my trips brought us our food. 

On both the CZ and the Cardinal, I went to the diner to get my milk for breakfast since I had packed my own hard boiled eggs. I ate breakfast in my room on both trains.


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## toddinde (Sep 30, 2020)

jiml said:


> Wow, I've taken a number of trips on DB and find that surprising. First, because their service is pretty good, and secondly because they take the trouble to make on-board announcements in both German and English (+ Dutch if traversing the Netherlands), so obviously realize some of their clientele might not speak German. I'm not sure I'd take one experience with an employee having an "off" day there any more seriously than on Amtrak or anywhere else.


I lived in Germany for awhile, and the service was usually very good. My German friends thought she might have been from the Deutschereichsbahn.


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## jiml (Sep 30, 2020)

toddinde said:


> I lived in Germany for awhile, and the service was usually very good. My German friends thought she might have been from the Deutschereichsbahn.


Makes sense, and in fairness we have not eaten _in_ the dining/cafe car. If not already at the seats, menus were brought to FC by the car attendants. Many fond memories, including Bitburger on tap in icy goblets while zipping down the Rhine. Food was pretty good too, although not included in the ticket price. They even had some healthy stuff!


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## MilwaukeeRoadLover (Sep 30, 2020)

On the final day of our recent westbound EM trip to Whitefish, the dining card closed just before our assigned dining time. No explanations were given. But the SCAs, automatically banded together, came to the cars, took the dinner orders, and delivered them in paper bags. Because our SCA had so many rooms, another SCA delivered our food. We never did find the reason for the closing.


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## Willbridge (Sep 30, 2020)

toddinde said:


> I lived in Germany for awhile, and the service was usually very good. My German friends thought she might have been from the Deutsche Reichsbahn.


East German dining and sleeping cars were operated by Mitropa, carrying on the name of the pre-WWII company. They were taken over by the DB in "die Wende" (the merger changes) and then shut down. If the layoffs and position changes were not enough there also was an effort to find service jobs for the Ministry for State Security redundant staff (as illustrated in the closing scenes in the film 'The Lives of Others"). I had a nice chat in a railway museum dining car with a genuine embittered ex-Mitropa employee who did not take it out on his guests, but there may have been others out there who do. I tipped him though service is included.

I also have had some of the most wonderful service from DSG (the old West German counterpart to Mitropa) and enjoyed the hilarious reaction on a DB Bistro car when I noticed the attendant's surname was Merkel, so I asked in tourist English if she got the job by being a relative of the Chancellor. I tipped her though service is included.

Here's a Mitropa lunch favorite: Königsberger Klopse.


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## Palmland (Oct 1, 2020)

Not sure which foodie thread this belongs in, but Trains.com reported this today:
*Amtrak offering sleeping car passengers option of choosing meals in advance*
Amtrak has begun offering an option for sleeping car passengers to choose their meals in advance on some routes. Customers holding reservations for private rooms on the Capitol Limited, Cardinal, City of New Orleans, and Lake Shore Limited are now offered the chance to view menus and pre-select meals. An Amtrak spokeswoman reports the service is expected to be available on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor “in the coming weeks.”


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## jiml (Oct 2, 2020)

Further to discussion earlier about DB on-board food service, here's their latest cafe menu (in German and English). On ICE trains FC passengers would have the option of going to the food-service car for table service or being served at their seats. We found the latter to be a particularly nice option if you have a compartment or a pair of seats facing across a table.


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## Maglev (Oct 2, 2020)

Regarding the DB menu, I see French Fries. Didn't Amtrak at one time serve French Fries?


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## OBS (Oct 2, 2020)

Palmland said:


> Not sure which foodie thread this belongs in, but Trains.com reported this today:
> *Amtrak offering sleeping car passengers option of choosing meals in advance*
> Amtrak has begun offering an option for sleeping car passengers to choose their meals in advance on some routes. Customers holding reservations for private rooms on the Capitol Limited, Cardinal, City of New Orleans, and Lake Shore Limited are now offered the chance to view menus and pre-select meals. An Amtrak spokeswoman reports the service is expected to be available on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor “in the coming weeks.”


I'm not sure what it is intended to accomplish, but we rode #49 on Monday out of NYP. We had preordered a couple days before. When we went to dinner, we were given menus and asked what we would like....No reference to if we had preordered, and my partner actually ordered something different based on the attendant's recommendations. Maybe it is just used to judge how many of each meal, because the attendant didn't seem to have any awareness or concern regarding the preorder.

Fwiw, I had the beef, very little flavor even with the high sodium level, and my partner switched from the pasta to the shrimp based on Attendant recommendation and he actually enjoyed it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 2, 2020)

OBS said:


> I'm not sure what it is intended to accomplish, but we rode #49 on Monday out of NYP. We had preordered a couple days before. When we went to dinner, we were given menus and asked what we would like....No reference to if we had preordered, and my partner actually ordered something different based on the attendant's recommendations. Maybe it is just used to judge how many of each meal, because the attendant didn't seem to have any awareness or concern regarding the preorder.
> 
> Fwiw, I had the beef, very little flavor even with the high sodium level, and my partner switched from the pasta to the shrimp based on Attendant recommendation and he actually enjoyed it.



Lol. You can’t make it up. Thanks for sharing.


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## Palmland (Oct 2, 2020)

If nothing else, I would think it would help Amtrak better manage the meal inventory for each train. That should result in less waste and not running out of something the passenger wants. That of course that assumes the passengers don’t change their mind.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 2, 2020)

Palmland said:


> If nothing else, I would think it would help Amtrak better manage the meal inventory for each train. That should result in less waste and not running out of something the passenger wants. That of course that assumes the passengers don’t change their mind.


Does Amtrak even let you change your mind? I never use the preorder option on airlines for the simple reason that I have no way of knowing what sort of meal I'll want to eat days, weeks, or months in advance. I guess the idea is that it doesn't matter since it will all taste like reheated casserole no matter what you order.


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## jiml (Oct 3, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Does Amtrak even let you change your mind? I never use the preorder option on airlines for the simple reason that I have no way of knowing what sort of meal I'll want to eat days, weeks, or months in advance. I guess the idea is that it doesn't matter since it will all taste like reheated casserole no matter what you order.


Speaking as an AA flyer, the only advantage of pre-ordering is improving the odds of getting something you may want, as opposed to something you definitely don't or are allergic to or have dietary/religious restrictions, etc. (I realize special meals are also available, but thinking where everything on the menu is fine save one item and it's the only thing left when they get to you.)


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## toddinde (Oct 10, 2020)

Willbridge said:


> East German dining and sleeping cars were operated by Mitropa, carrying on the name of the pre-WWII company. They were taken over by the DB in "die Wende" (the merger changes) and then shut down. If the layoffs and position changes were not enough there also was an effort to find service jobs for the Ministry for State Security redundant staff (as illustrated in the closing scenes in the film 'The Lives of Others"). I had a nice chat in a railway museum dining car with a genuine embittered ex-Mitropa employee who did not take it out on his guests, but there may have been others out there who do. I tipped him though service is included.
> 
> I also have had some of the most wonderful service from DSG (the old West German counterpart to Mitropa) and enjoyed the hilarious reaction on a DB Bistro car when I noticed the attendant's surname was Merkel, so I asked in tourist English if she got the job by being a relative of the Chancellor. I tipped her though service is included.
> 
> ...


Love the pictures, the story and the information! Thanks. Beautiful Germany! Can’t wait to get back


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## lordsigma (Oct 13, 2020)

For those riding the eastern trains - i rode the star this past weekend - if you think you may want to eat in the diner make sure you make that clear to your attendant when they take your order That you’d rather collect your meal from the diner instead of room service as they are assuming most people want room service right now due to Covid. If you opt to pick up in the diner you can still bring it back to your room if you change your mind. I told her outright for lunch that I want to eat in the diner but that I wasn’t sure for dinner. I never saw her again to tell her I’d probably go to the diner again for dinner so she just assumed room service and I literally ran into my SCA in the hall bringing me my meal as I was working toward the diner. For breakfast they do things a little different - your SCA doesn’t come around the same way to take orders as they don’t do set meal times for breakfast so you just either walk to the diner and order if you want breakfast or you tell your SCA youd like to order breakfast and have it brought to you. 

I believe on the auto train room service is mandatory due to the larger amount of passengers and the difference in the food preparation.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 13, 2020)

On the Cardinal they’re only doing room service because they don’t have a diner, just the combined diner/cafe car.


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## hlcteacher (Oct 13, 2020)

Maglev said:


> Regarding the DB menu, I see French Fries. Didn't Amtrak at one time serve French Fries?


i seem to remember my lil one (no with lil one of his own) having fries for lunch.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 13, 2020)

hlcteacher said:


> i seem to remember my lil one (no with lil one of his own) having fries for lunch.



I remember salads (which is what my kid preferred), chips, and mashed potatoes, but never fries on the DC kid's menu.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 13, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> I've never had a DB staff member bark at me for doing something wrong. I have had Amtrak OBS bark at me for not waiting for them at the end of the dining car, then bark at me for not coming to the middle of the car to speak to them for my table assignment on the same trip.



I had one OBS bark at me for waiting in the end of the dining car. I replied that I had a 6pm reservation and it was 6pm. She replied that it isn't 6pm until she announces it is 6pm over the PA.

I walked away mumbling that the PA system in the sleepers wasn't even working, and isn't knowing that part of her job?


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## hlcteacher (Oct 13, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I remember salads (which is what my kid preferred), chips, and mashed potatoes, but never fries on the DC kid's menu.


eb, cs, sm, ss, swc perhaps? he never a a kids menu for anything


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 13, 2020)

hlcteacher said:


> eb, cs, sm, ss, swc perhaps? he never a a kids menu for anything



Could be, but I don't recall fries ever on the Dining Car's menu offered as the side on the kid's menu.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 13, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I had one OBS bark at me for waiting in the end of the dining car. I replied that I had a 6pm reservation and it was 6pm. She replied that it isn't 6pm until she announces it is 6pm over the PA.
> 
> I walked away mumbling that the PA system in the sleepers wasn't even working, and isn't knowing that part of her job?



Pretty sure I had that LSA once! As I’ve mentioned before I was also scolded for waiting at the end of a via diner on the Canadian. I was told that it was proper etiquette to announce ones arrival. ??? Dining Cars are just weird lol. 

On both Amtrak and VIA I try to follow other guests into the car and let them take the wrath of the lsa / steward. Ha.


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## snaebyllej (Oct 13, 2020)

hlcteacher said:


> i seem to remember my lil one (no with lil one of his own) having fries for lunch.


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## tgstubbs1 (Oct 13, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Could be, but I don't recall fries ever on the Dining Car's menu offered as the side on the kid's menu.


I seem to remember somebody telling me the danger of a deep fryer full of hot oil could be a safety risk. 
A hot air fryer is almost as good for frozen stuff, if you ask me.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 13, 2020)

tgstubbs1 said:


> I seem to remember somebody telling me the danger of a deep fryer full of hot oil could be a safety risk.
> A hot air fryer is almost as good for frozen stuff, if you ask me.



It would be a safety risk. But I’m sure there are good quality pre-cooked fries available from Aramark. Now I want some potato wedges!


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## hlcteacher (Oct 14, 2020)

snaebyllej said:


> View attachment 19307


thank you (although i do not remember him having a kids meal, i do (and he does) remember fries, thanks for the validation


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 14, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Now I want some potato wedges!



But, not Roasted Potato Wedges, please. Nearly all that I have ever been served in any restaurant anywhere have been so overcooked and dry that they are nearly inedible--in my opinion.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 14, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I had one OBS bark at me for waiting in the end of the dining car.



I have not been barked at but have been asked to wait in the Lounge Car until my seating was called. The PA was working in the Lounge Car; it was not working in my Sleeper than the crew member did not know that.


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## lake_wannabees (Apr 6, 2021)

toddinde said:


> OK, if you don’t tip, you’re a cheap skate. Dining cars, when they come back, 20% of the price of the meal if you had paid for it. The fact that it was included doesn’t mean you can leave a buck. Service attendant, $20. Just because workers are in a Union doesn’t mean you don’t tip. Try that in Vegas or New York where they’re all in the hotel and restaurant workers union. Yes, you tip!




Planning first trip on Amtrak so Is it suggested $20/night or trip for the service attendant?


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## crescent-zephyr (Apr 6, 2021)

lake_wannabees said:


> Planning first trip on Amtrak so Is it suggested $20/night or trip for the service attendant?



I usually do $10 a night for my sleeping car attendant and go up to $20 a night for excellent service.

On my most recent trip I tipped $20 for one night because my sca was excellent and she also took my orders and delivered my meals. 

I did not tip the LSA for handing me a yogurt and a coffee in the morning.


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## lake_wannabees (Apr 6, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I usually do $10 a night for my sleeping car attendant and go up to $20 a night for excellent service.
> 
> On my most recent trip I tipped $20 for one night because my sca was excellent and she also took my orders and delivered my meals.
> 
> I did not tip the LSA for handing me a yogurt and a coffee in the morning.


 Thanks so much for the information.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 6, 2021)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I don't think there is any good solution here to avoid tipping. Not having the cash to tip, does not by itself, give one permission to stiff the person of their due tip. In this case, whether you eat in your room or eat in the dining car, you still need to tip someone (either the SCA or the waitstaff serving you). Its part of the cost of going on the trip in Sleeper class.
> 
> It would be like going into a restaurant and enjoying a $50 meal. When the check comes, you only have $50 in your pocket, so its OK to not leave a tip? That's wrong. If you had only $50, you should have only had a $42 meal, and therefore, had enough to also leave a tip.


As has been pointed out, tips are not required. Also, as has been pointed out, Amtrak OBS are not like most service workers in that they are relatively well paid. Thus, one should not feel like you are "stiffing" anyone by not tipping. That said, if you've just paid 100s of dollars for a sleeping car ticket, you probably have enough money to afford another $20 - $30 in tips to service workers you encounter along the way. If you're taking a long train trip, you should remember to bring the extra cash, and in small bills, too. Of course, if the service is substandard, there's nothing wrong with not tipping, especially because the service workers earn a decent wage. 

I personally tip OBS. I tip the SCA $5 -$10 a night, depending on the quality of the service. For traditional full-service dining, if it ever comes back, I estimate that the Dinners are around $25 -$30, so I will tip $3 -$5, which is about a 15% tip. Breakfasts and lunches are priced at about $10, so I tip $1.50 - $2.00. On the trip when I did flex dining, I didn't tip on the Capitol when I had to line up, pick up my tray and take it to my seat and then put it in the trash myself, but I did tip the attendant on the Cardinal, who served me my flex dinner as if it were a real dining car meal.


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## jis (Apr 7, 2021)

I have consistently used the 2-3-5 rule in full service Diner. $2 for Breakfast, $3 for Lunch and $5 for Dinner, as the norm. There can be variations depending on remarkably good or bad service. There have been cases where I have tipped $10 for dinner with wine and there have been cases where I have tipped $0 after being treated like s*it, which unfortunately happens more often than one would expect if it were just random.


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## tricia (Apr 7, 2021)

I'll probably be an outlier about this, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

I don't feel obliged to tip on Amtrak unless staff does something beyond just doing their job. Amtrak staff are paid a very decent wage and benefits package that IMHO is fair compensation for "just doing their job." (Yes, I understand they work long hours away from home--that's been extensively noted, and re-noted in various threads on tipping in this forum. Before y'all pile that on again here, please consider simply posting a link to one or more of those threads.)

I DO feel obliged to tip in a land-based restaurant unless the server is actively rude or completely incompetent, since in many states (most? certainly my home state) the server often isn't paid even the standard minimum wage, let alone a proper living wage, so refusing a tip for even the most minimal level of service means that worker's not getting paid nearly enough for "just doing their job." So I'll tip the standard percentage for "just doing their job," plus a REAL tip for going above and beyond.

Sorry if this starts the same old arguments about tipping all over again. I thought the person who revived this thread yesterday might want to know that at least some of us consider tipping on Amtrak to be optional.


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## flitcraft (Apr 7, 2021)

I unfortunately have personal experience that not all folks tip in land-based restaurants. My elderly parents used to go to a Denny's every Wednesday night with another older couple after evening church service and they'd order a small soup each, with extra crackers, and dawdle over the meal for an hour or so chatting. On one of my visits, I discovered to my horror that they never tipped. At all. So...I went up and asked the head waitstaff if tips were shared. They were. So I gave her all the bills I had in my wallet--probably a little over a hundred buck--and said, That's this year's tips from the foursome at table 5 for the rest of the year. Of course, I never told my parents--didn't want to embarass them. 

But my dad reported that their usual waitress started spontaneously bringing them cracker refills...


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## MARC Rider (Apr 7, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> As has been pointed out, tips are not required. Also, as has been pointed out, Amtrak OBS are not like most service workers in that they are relatively well paid. Thus, one should not feel like you are "stiffing" anyone by not tipping. That said, if you've just paid 100s of dollars for a sleeping car ticket, you probably have enough money to afford another $20 - $30 in tips to service workers you encounter along the way. If you're taking a long train trip, you should remember to bring the extra cash, and in small bills, too. Of course, if the service is substandard, there's nothing wrong with not tipping, especially because the service workers earn a decent wage.
> 
> I personally tip OBS. I tip the SCA $5 -$10 a night, depending on the quality of the service. For traditional full-service dining, if it ever comes back, I estimate that the Dinners are around $25 -$30, so I will tip $3 -$5, which is about a 15% tip. Breakfasts and lunches are priced at about $10, so I tip $1.50 - $2.00. On the trip when I did flex dining, I didn't tip on the Capitol when I had to line up, pick up my tray and take it to my seat and then put it in the trash myself, but I did tip the attendant on the Cardinal, who served me my flex dinner as if it were a real dining car meal.


I should point out that in my opinion, in an ideal world tipping should be prohibited, or, more precisely, it shouldn't even enter anybody's mind to do it or expect it. I think it's a horrible custom that debases the relation between the service worker and their customer. Nobody tips their doctor for saving their life, or their lawyer for writing their will, or the salesclerk who rings up their grocery order, or the plumber who keeps disgusting drainage from backing up into their house, and so forth. You just pay the price quoted and that's that. To rely on tips makes the transaction more like some kind of master-servant relationship, and it's bad enough being a servant of only one master, but to be a servant of a large number of demanding masters is clearly humiliating and shouldn't be tolerated in an enlightened society.

That said, I can't change our culture, so I tip service workers, especially those who rely on the tips to earn a decent living.


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## Dakota 400 (Apr 7, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> so I tip service workers, especially those who rely on the tips to earn a decent living.



As do I. During this pandemic, when I am picking up a curb delivery of a restaurant meal or even at a drive-through pick-up like KFC, I try to remember to include a tip for those service folks.


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## Eric in East County (Apr 7, 2021)

For our last few trips, we’ve eaten most of our meals in our bedroom. (Those times when we did eat in the dining car, we followed the 2-3-5 rule for tipping.) For our trip this coming summer, we plan to eat ALL our meals in our bedroom even though, by then, we will have been inoculated against COVID-19.

Over the years we had the good fortune to be seated with some interesting people in the dining car, and we treasure the memories the conversations we had with them. Social distancing aside however, we have now become spoiled by the option of being able to eat our meals in private and at our leisure, without being rushed or feeling guilty at lingering over our desserts while other people are waiting to be seated.

We tip our Sleeping Car Attendants when we reach our destination. Sometimes they’ll stop by our bedroom before we arrive at the station, and we tip them then. Otherwise, we tip them when we detrain. If they delivered meals to us in our bedroom, we tip them extra. Our tips to our SCAs are always quite generous anyhow. These generous tips serve as a powerful affirmation that we have more than enough to meet our needs and can afford to share our good fortune with those who have been looking after us on our journey. 

Eric & Pat


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## Manny T (Apr 7, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Nobody tips their doctor for saving their life, or their lawyer for writing their will, or the salesclerk



Well, once I was given a very nice pen by a client for writing their will. Also, working at a garage sale or flea market, I've been tipped more than once by someone who enjoyed the interaction and didn't want their change.

Tipping is a form of gift giving and stems from the impulse towards generosity, which many people possess in abundance, and some not at all.

People can rationalize not tipping for a million different reasons -- it debases the relationship, the donee earns a nice living and has nice benefits, it isn't required, I'm paying enough without the tip, it's only in America etc. etc. But nothing will deter a generous person from making a free-will offering as a thank you to someone who has treated him or her well.


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## T2jk (Apr 7, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> I unfortunately have personal experience that not all folks tip in land-based restaurants. My elderly parents used to go to a Denny's every Wednesday night with another older couple after evening church service and they'd order a small soup each, with extra crackers, and dawdle over the meal for an hour or so chatting. On one of my visits, I discovered to my horror that they never tipped. At all. So...I went up and asked the head waitstaff if tips were shared. They were. So I gave her all the bills I had in my wallet--probably a little over a hundred buck--and said, That's this year's tips from the foursome at table 5 for the rest of the year. Of course, I never told my parents--didn't want to embarass them.
> 
> But my dad reported that their usual waitress started spontaneously bringing them cracker refills...



Thankfully people like you exist. One of those situations where “it’s all good”


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## flitcraft (Apr 8, 2021)

My attitude towards tipping comes out of my personal life experiences. When I was working during my college years at a local 'family restaurant' where all the entrees came with fries and cole slaw, I recall lots of nights where a table of six or more would insist on multiple iced tea refills, another fork since somebody dropped one, complaints about the tartar sauce, etc.--all of which I smilingly handled--and then leave me a dollar tip. (Okay...it was a while back, but a dollar? Really?) So now I'm on salary and I have the financial means to tip, so I do. I know what it's like to work a hard job, expect tips, and still get nada. I've never forgotten my gratitude at the generosity of some when I was working a full time shift and going to school, too. Now I feel like I can and should pay it back. 

I'll grant that tipping culture in the US is fairly idiosyncratic. I had a student once from Nigeria who was completely confused about our tipping culture. He asked me, "Do you tip a taxi driver?" "Yes." "What about a bus driver?" "No." "Someone who cuts your hair?" "Sure." "Someone who cleans your teeth at the dentist's office?" "Nope." "Your professor?" "(long silent pause)...Actually, no..."


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## caravanman (Apr 8, 2021)

In my view, tipping benefits the employer most, so they can get away with paying a lower wage.
Folk often say "Amtrak staff are paid a very decent wage". I have no idea what their wages are? 
Most folk just want to "fit in", go along with what is usual in the situation, and leaving a tip is pretty usuall with Amtrak dining. No one has to tip, but it is the norm, in my experience.


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## Asher (Apr 8, 2021)

Do I really have to tip, what can I get by with? Age old question!


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## hlcteacher (Apr 8, 2021)

the 2-3-5 is my formula, also


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## Georgie (Apr 8, 2021)

I have NEVER received ’good enough service’ on Amtrak that the typical 15-20+% tipping that regular $2-4/hour services workers earn. Let me ask you this, do you tip your flight attendants, because they are within the same salary range.

For a rail-service agent with a menial attitude to drop off a paper bag of microwave food... $1-$2 tip is generous. (If they greet you with a smile, warmth, positive attitude, everything is on-time or justly explained; they assist with luggage and travel information; and you do not feel you are asking too much of them at any time within reason, and overall your journey is a great experience - then that’s a different story!!)

As a service industry worker myself, I ‘karmically’ over-tip. But there needs to be some HUGE changes in Amtrak customer service attitude and cleanliness to deserve the 15-20%+ that regular $2-4/hour workers earn. *I wonder that those in this forum who are tip-shaming are probably disgruntled Amtrak employees.


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## Georgie (Apr 8, 2021)

lake_wannabees said:


> Planning first trip on Amtrak so Is it suggested $20/night or trip for the service attendant?


For excellent customer service experience? Sure! (For anything less ... no)


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## tricia (Apr 8, 2021)

Georgie said:


> I have NEVER received ’good enough service’ on Amtrak that the typical 15-20+% tipping that regular $2-4/hour services workers earn. Let me ask you this, do you tip your flight attendants, because they are within the same salary range.
> 
> For a rail-service agent with a menial attitude to drop off a paper bag of microwave food... $1-$2 tip is generous. (If they greet you with a smile, warmth, positive attitude, everything is on-time or justly explained; they assist with luggage and travel information; and you do not feel you are asking too much of them at any time within reason, and overall your journey is a great experience - then that’s a different story!!)
> 
> As a service industry worker myself, I ‘karmically’ over-tip. But there needs to be some HUGE changes in Amtrak customer service attitude and cleanliness to deserve the 15-20%+ that regular $2-4/hour workers earn. *I wonder that those in this forum who are tip-shaming are probably disgruntled Amtrak employees.



I wouldn't say "NEVER," but it's been rare in my experience.

And that "like" I gave your post doesn't apply to its last sentence, which I think is uncalled for.


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## jis (Apr 8, 2021)

Georgie said:


> As a service industry worker myself, I ‘karmically’ over-tip. But there needs to be some HUGE changes in Amtrak customer service attitude and cleanliness to deserve the 15-20%+ that regular $2-4/hour workers earn. *I wonder that those in this forum who are tip-shaming are probably disgruntled Amtrak employees.


I am not sure how much of the tip shamers here are Amtrak employees, but for sure on various Facebook pages there is significant tip shaming carried out by Amtrak employees that I have noticed, including getting summarily roasted by a bunch of Acela First Class LSAs. So yeah, it happens, but not sure if it happen in this AU forum as much.


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## Eric in East County (Apr 8, 2021)

Of much more practical value to an AMTRAK employee is for a customer to contact AMTRAK and leave positive feedback about them. We’ve done this for a few of our SCAs who provided us with exceptionally good service, and we’d like to think that this was worth more to them in the long run than the tip we gave them. For those of who are concerned about how much you can afford to tip remember, it doesn’t cost you anything to contact AMTRAK and praise an employee who provided you with good service.

Eric & Pat


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## MARC Rider (Apr 8, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> I'll grant that tipping culture in the US is fairly idiosyncratic. I had a student once from Nigeria who was completely confused about our tipping culture. He asked me, "Do you tip a taxi driver?" "Yes." "What about a bus driver?" "No." "Someone who cuts your hair?" "Sure." "Someone who cleans your teeth at the dentist's office?" "Nope." "Your professor?" "(long silent pause)...Actually, no..."



No kidding. How about tipping that nice clerk at City Hall so that my application for a building permit gets expedited? As a government worker, we had all kinds of rules limiting who we could get gifts from and the amounts thereof. I had to actually be a little short with my project officer from our contractor who kept trying to buy me lunch when I was visiting to review the work he was doing for us. Imagine a waiter yelling at you not to tip them. (I didn't yell at him, but I did get a little frustrated. He did enough government work to know he can't buy me lunch. Of course, we were on salary, but you can imagine how many people would still like to show their appreciation for us making an Agency decision to their liking.


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## Willbridge (Apr 9, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> My attitude towards tipping comes out of my personal life experiences. When I was working during my college years at a local 'family restaurant' where all the entrees came with fries and cole slaw, I recall lots of nights where a table of six or more would insist on multiple iced tea refills, another fork since somebody dropped one, complaints about the tartar sauce, etc.--all of which I smilingly handled--and then leave me a dollar tip. (Okay...it was a while back, but a dollar? Really?) So now I'm on salary and I have the financial means to tip, so I do. I know what it's like to work a hard job, expect tips, and still get nada. I've never forgotten my gratitude at the generosity of some when I was working a full time shift and going to school, too. Now I feel like I can and should pay it back.
> 
> I'll grant that tipping culture in the US is fairly idiosyncratic. I had a student once from Nigeria who was completely confused about our tipping culture. He asked me, "Do you tip a taxi driver?" "Yes." "What about a bus driver?" "No." "Someone who cuts your hair?" "Sure." "Someone who cleans your teeth at the dentist's office?" "Nope." "Your professor?" "(long silent pause)...Actually, no..."


There's an exception on tipping bus drivers. On a tour it may be appropriate but not on a regular route. Then there are "all gratuities included" tours where the escort tips the driver.


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## Georgie (Apr 9, 2021)

tricia said:


> I wouldn't say "NEVER," but it's been rare in my experience.
> 
> And that "like" I gave your post doesn't apply to its last sentence, which I think is uncalled for.



Well, you have a point. However my reasoning for this is that despite only having ridden the Starlight (x4), the Empire builder (x2) and the Zephyr (x2) in the last 12 months, I saw uber senior (unfurloughed) employees apparently working roles ‘beneath them’ - and it was evident, and that should never be a reason to treat customers poorly. With 30 years experience in customer service industries worldwide, and on both sides of the counter so to speak; I am fair in saying that the service on Amtrak has been sub-par. 
Your experience is otherwise justified as are others who may have travelled on the service for much longer and been able to experience better standards than I have. I took 8 journeys on Amtrak in 12 months - and the service and food (and surprisingly, the cleanliness during the Covid pandemic) was basically awful. Thank God for America and her diverse terrain through the window! It’s a terrible shame that Amtrak hasn’t grasped the market for quality services and standards (especially for our international guests). They own the monopoly, and they just let us all down.


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## Willbridge (Apr 9, 2021)

Georgie said:


> Well, you have a point. However my reasoning for this is that despite only having ridden the Starlight (x4), the Empire builder (x2) and the Zephyr (x2) in the last 12 months, I saw uber senior (unfurloughed) employees apparently working roles ‘beneath them’ - and it was evident, and that should never be a reason to treat customers poorly. With 30 years experience in customer service industries worldwide, and on both sides of the counter so to speak; I am fair in saying that the service on Amtrak has been sub-par.
> Your experience is otherwise justified as are others who may have travelled on the service for much longer and been able to experience better standards than I have. I took 8 journeys on Amtrak in 12 months - and the service and food (and surprisingly, the cleanliness during the Covid pandemic) was basically awful. Thank God for America and her diverse terrain through the window! It’s a terrible shame that Amtrak hasn’t grasped the market for quality services and standards (especially for our international guests). They own the monopoly, and they just let us all down.


I have been reminded of the second half of the 1960's on several lines, notably in my part of the country on the SP. It's not logical to take it out on the customers when cutbacks have someone working a job that they thought they had left years before. BUT, it seems to be a standard reaction in a downward spiraling organization.

There are exceptions, usually when some union leader or lower-level management employee rallies others to sabotage the axe-wielders at the top by doing outstanding jobs. I've written here and in _RTN_ about some people like that.


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## railiner (Apr 9, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> There's an exception on tipping bus drivers. On a tour it may be appropriate but not on a regular route. Then there are "all gratuities included" tours where the escort tips the driver.


But you usually tip the escort, and they share with the driver. That's how it was done when my company handled the prestigious Tauck New England/Maritime Tours....


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## Willbridge (Apr 10, 2021)

railiner said:


> But you usually tip the escort, and they share with the driver. That's how it was done when my company handled the prestigious Tauck New England/Maritime Tours....


Cartan Tours (Hilton Carte Blanche) had a tips inclusive policy and the escort tipped the driver $50 (in 1973 dollars). I remember it vividly because I had a run-in with 'Rocky' - the #2 seniority driver at the Gray Line of Portland. He discovered that I had put one of our PSU summer temp drivers on a Columbia Gorge tour instead of him. I had assigned Rocky to a run that paid more per the Teamsters agreement. My boss, an old-time CB&Q sales rep, defended my decision, which had followed the letter of the agreement. And--- he shut down Rocky by pointing out that he never shared tips with the dispatcher or the shop guys.


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## railiner (Apr 11, 2021)

Shared tips with the dispatcher or shop guys? That's an 'eye-opener' to me...not saying it wasn't done, but as a dispatcher, I would consider it a 'bribe', and never would accept it...


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 11, 2021)

railiner said:


> Shared tips with the dispatcher or shop guys? That's an 'eye-opener' to me...not saying it wasn't done, but as a dispatcher, I would consider it a 'bribe', and never would accept it...


Are you sure you lived and worked in New York where " tips" and "sharing" off the books is a way of life?


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## Willbridge (Apr 11, 2021)

railiner said:


> Shared tips with the dispatcher or shop guys? That's an 'eye-opener' to me...not saying it wasn't done, but as a dispatcher, I would consider it a 'bribe', and never would accept it...


My boss was a wheeler-dealer. He knew I assigned the work strictly by the contract and he never pressured me to do otherwise. But if there was a chance for some side deal he would have taken it. I enjoyed his stories about his CB&Q days in Chicago.


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## Georgie (Jun 6, 2021)

Sauve850 said:


> If i have a meal in my room and all is good i tip at that time. $1.00-$2.00 does not seem sufficient to me.


How much do you tip your flight attendants?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 6, 2021)

Georgie said:


> How much do you tip your flight attendants?


Flight attendants have a cart. Flight attendants don’t have to walk through several cars rocking & rolling while carrying the food. Flight attendants don’t have to make up beds.


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## Georgie (Jun 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Flight attendants have a cart. Flight attendants don’t have to walk through several cars rocking & rolling while carrying the food. Flight attendants don’t have to make up beds.


Flight attendants hand deliver 3+ course meals to each guest (and yes, sometimes the dessert is on a cart); Amtrak workers sling a bag of awful microwaved food at you - sometime on time; flight attendants are also running back and forth up to 16 hours with multiple food, beverage and amenity requests. Flight attendants are often injured during turbulent conditions and continue to serve through mild to moderate turbulence. Flight attendants DO make up beds - sometimes in the dark; and they hold your babies, and clean your mess in the bathrooms; and provide lifesaving CPR and first aid.
But if you are thinking of flight attendants with a cart in the economy section … well, I’ve never seen a cart in economy on Amtrak. You have to get your own rocking and rolling butt to the cafe cart. I WIN!! 

Hey, if I get exemplary service on the train, I’ll tip - especially if they carry my bags (that happened once). But they are not minimum wage restaurant workers where I should be guilted into subsidizing their income with an undeserved tip. I’ve never received quality customer service on Amtrak. They behave like we owe them something … and they have a fairly decent and reasonably well paid careers.


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## jis (Jun 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Flight attendants have a cart. Flight attendants don’t have to walk through several cars rocking & rolling while carrying the food. Flight attendants don’t have to make up beds.


I don't think a cogent argument can be made based on what they have to do, in favor of tipping Amtrak SCAs. The tipping certain groups of service providers while not others often has more to do with carrying on traditions rather than any other logic to it.



Bob Dylan said:


> Are you sure you lived and worked in New York where " tips" and "sharing" off the books is a way of life?


There is always a fine line between a tip and a bribe ("bakhsheesh" vs. "ghoos" are the term used in India, though the first term is used as an euphemism for the second quite often). Even around here a few people have argued for tipping as soon as they get on the train with the expectation that as a result of their action they would get better service. That in my view falls on the "bribe" side of the "tip" - "bribe" continuum.


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## Georgie (Jun 6, 2021)

jis said:


> … tipping certain groups of service providers while not others often has more to do with *carrying on traditions* rather than any other logic to it.
> 
> There is always a fine line between a tip and a bribe ("bakhsheesh" is the term used in India for both). That in my view falls on the "bribe" side of the "tip" - "bribe" continuum.


Great reply Bob Dylan ~ no bakhsheesh paid forth! 
✔Old tradition is an Interesting perspective - there must be some great stories from those days. Employees must have been more eager to provide a positive experience back in the day; (dare I ask, pre-unionization? Ugh, sorry no, pre-capitalistic self-servitude ~ it dribbles down resentfully).

My great-grandfather was a conductor in the early 1900’s. I WISH I had more to share on his career and experiences of early rail travel.

I know customer service, and have worked in it world wide all my life. I can say as an expert … Amtrak fails miserably. I tip well for great service, nothing less … it’s a good practice for society and the future of service based industries…while we still have them.


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## PVD (Jun 6, 2021)

In this country, we generally tip categories of workers. Redcaps, bellpersons at hotels, barbers/hairdressers, masseuse, food delivery people, waitpersons... T&E on trains, airline crews, and many others, no. We don't use a means test, or income criteria. That has been the longstanding custom here. I don't know why so many people try to find reasons beyond the sensible one (poor service by that person) to avoid tipping.


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## Georgie (Jun 6, 2021)

Sauve850 said:


> If i have a meal in my room and all is good i tip at that time. $1.00-$2.00 does not seem sufficient to me.


I apologize with my “do you tip flight attendants“ response - although it is absolutely valid. If the CSA helped carry bags at boarding, introduced themselves and the sleeper compartment; offered answers to questions and trip information; answered call-light request within a reasonable amount of time and all done with a positive and helpful demeanor… a few dollars for food delivery should say, “Hey, Thanks” … and if the whole experience was undoubtedly wonderful, slip him/her an additional $$+/- when you disembark.

At the end of the day: it’s totally up to you.


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## Willbridge (Jun 6, 2021)

I've received good service on Amtrak in all classes of service and in dining cars. When that happens I'll tip regardless of the facts of their pay and benefits. I've also received perfunctory or miserable service, so no tip, knowing that they're still receiving their pay and benefits.

One of the things that keeps the _Pioneer _in discussion has turned out to be recollections of good service on that train from the Seattle-based personnel.


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## me_little_me (Jun 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> In this country, we generally tip categories of workers. Redcaps, bellpersons at hotels, barbers/hairdressers, masseuse, food delivery people, waitpersons... T&E on trains, airline crews, and many others, no. We don't use a means test, or income criteria. That has been the longstanding custom here. I don't know why so many people try to find reasons beyond the sensible one (poor service by that person) to avoid tipping.


But, unfortunately, the definition of "service" has deteriorated. Everyone wants tips. Does someone who just scoops ice cream in a cone deserve a tip for doing that? What about the clerk at the bakery who just grabs the pastry you wanted and puts it in the bag? Or someone who hands you the boxed pizza that someone else cooked and boxed? All those places that now have tip containers continue to amaze me!

Those are not a long standing custom. That's just a "get in on the action" for employees who are in positions that don't deserve tipping but whose employers are just plain cheap!

We have a local ice cream place that apparently pays their employees decently so the tip box is donated 100% to charity. Kudos to the boss and kudos to the employees. They probably do that because we have so many people that think dropping a dollar in a box is a good alternative to making real donations to charity and pushing for living wages - so they want to assuage their consciences.


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