# NY Penn Help



## printman2000 (May 24, 2009)

Planning our trip to NY next month. Need some help with Penn...

Penn has two subway stops, one for A-C-E and one for 1-2-3 lines. They look to be about a block apart. Can someone tell me which is more convenient for NJT?


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## AlanB (May 24, 2009)

Both.

It really doesn't matter which line you use to arrive/depart Penn Station, both are directly connected to Penn. The 7th Avenue lines (1,2,3) are technically closest to the official NJT section of Penn, however because of how they are connected, again it really doesn't matter. I would pick my line based upon where you needed to go or were returning from.


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## printman2000 (May 24, 2009)

Thanks Alan.

We will be returning from Yankee Stadium. We have to make a train change and can come in on either line, and since it will be later in the evening, thought I would try and save time.


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## AlanB (May 24, 2009)

From Yankee Statdium, catch a southbound D train to 125th Street. Switch there to a southbound A train to 34th Street.

That'll be the fastest and least amount of walking.


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## printman2000 (May 24, 2009)

The trip planner gave the option of going to 59 street, then taking either D or a 1-2-3 train (forget which number)


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## AlanB (May 24, 2009)

Yes, you could also go to 59th Street too. In fact at 59th you could switch to the A train there as well as the 1,2,3 trains. However, why go up and down stairs to get to the 1,2,3 when you can just step off the D train and stand right there to await the very next train that should be an A train?

My reason for suggesting that you switch at 125th is that the D train will probably be packed leaving the stadium, whereas the A would be less full. Technically you could even switch one stop earlier at 145th Street, but there you're going to have to negotiate stairs once again as the A is on a different level than the D.


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## printman2000 (May 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Yes, you could also go to 59th Street too. In fact at 59th you could switch to the A train there as well as the 1,2,3 trains. However, why go up and down stairs to get to the 1,2,3 when you can just step off the D train and stand right there to await the very next train that should be an A train?
> My reason for suggesting that you switch at 125th is that the D train will probably be packed leaving the stadium, whereas the A would be less full. Technically you could even switch one stop earlier at 145th Street, but there you're going to have to negotiate stairs once again as the A is on a different level than the D.


Is there a way to tell (online) which stations are multi level and which are single?


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## AlanB (May 24, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Is there a way to tell (online) which stations are multi level and which are single?


The only way that I know of would be to use the online track maps. Or you can ask me, since I know most of them by heart anyhow. :lol:


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## printman2000 (May 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> From Yankee Statdium, catch a southbound D train to 125th Street. Switch there to a southbound A train to 34th Street.
> That'll be the fastest and least amount of walking.


Okay, still trying to figure this subway system out. How come you said catch a A train and not a A OR C train? Is there something about the C line that would not work?


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## AlanB (May 25, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > From Yankee Statdium, catch a southbound D train to 125th Street. Switch there to a southbound A train to 34th Street.
> ...


The C train would also work for you, however it's a local train whereas the A is an express. Get on the C at 125 and you'll make 11 stops along the way compared to the A which runs express to 59th Street and then makes its next stop at 42nd St, followed by 34th.


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## printman2000 (May 25, 2009)

AlanB said:


> The C train would also work for you, however it's a local train whereas the A is an express. Get on the C at 125 and you'll make 11 stops along the way compared to the A which runs express to 59th Street and then makes its next stop at 42nd St, followed by 34th.


I think the express vs local is confusing me the most. Some trains seem to be locals AND express depending where they are. Guess I will figure it all out before we get there.

Thanks!


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## AlanB (May 25, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The C train would also work for you, however it's a local train whereas the A is an express. Get on the C at 125 and you'll make 11 stops along the way compared to the A which runs express to 59th Street and then makes its next stop at 42nd St, followed by 34th.
> ...


Hah! :lol:

There are people living in NY who still haven't figured that one out.  Granted they're not rail fans, but still.

Here's a quick rundown:

A - Express in Manhattan south of 168th Street and Brooklyn, local elsewhere.

B - Express in Manhattan south of 50th Street and through most of Brooklyn. Doesn't run on weekends or late at night.

C - Local

D - Express in the Peak direction in the Bronx, Express in Manhattan, express in Brooklyn to 36th Street, local elsewhere.

E - Express in Queens, local in Manhattan.

F - Express in Queens, local elsewhere.

G - Local

J - Express in peak direction in Brooklyn Myrtle Ave to Marcy, local elsewhere.

L - Local

M - Local

N - Express in Manhattan south of 57th and Brooklyn to 59th Street, local elsewhere.

Q - Express in Manhattan, local elsewhere.

R - Local

S (shutles) - Local

V - Local

W - Local

Z - Local (skip stop service)

1 - Local

2 - Express in Manhattan, local elsewhere.

3 - Express in Manhattan, local elsewhere.

4 - Express in Manhattan and Brooklyn, local in Bronx.

5 - Express in Manhattan and Brooklyn, express peak direction in the Bronx otherwise local in the off peak and in the opposite direction from the peak direction.

6 - Local (some peak trains do run express in the Bronx in the peak direction.)

7 - Express & local in the peak direction, local in the opposite direction and on weekends and late nights. Every other train is an express train. They also run special express service for Mets games.


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 26, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The C train would also work for you, however it's a local train whereas the A is an express. Get on the C at 125 and you'll make 11 stops along the way compared to the A which runs express to 59th Street and then makes its next stop at 42nd St, followed by 34th.
> ...


I agree with you on that one I have no idea when it comes to express and local. Some times the "Express" doesn't skip any stops so I'm like how is this faster? Overall though its not to bad at least its flat rate to ride where ever you want to go.


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## printman2000 (May 26, 2009)

AlanB said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I am printing that list to take!

What I cannot believe is there is nothing like that on MTA's website (that I have found).


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## AlanB (May 26, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> I am printing that list to take!
> What I cannot believe is there is nothing like that on MTA's website (that I have found).


Well it's not short and sweet like my list, and frankly it can be a bit confusing, but if you look in the bottom right hand corner of this subway map you will find a table that identifies what each line does.


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## printman2000 (May 26, 2009)

Do any of the signs for trains actually use the last station stop to denote direction? Or is it all uptown/downtown/boroughs?


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## printman2000 (May 26, 2009)

Another question...

This is listed on the trip planner...



> From 5TH AV - 59TH ST STATION
> Take the DITMARS BLVD-ASTORIA bound
> 
> 
> ...


Notice the (UPTOWN) and (DOWNTN) references. That is the first time I have seen that on the MTA trip planner. Does that mean two seperate stations? Will we have to come above ground, then go back down?


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 26, 2009)

Alan will have the true information on this but Uptown and downtown are the direction traveled. They are either on other sides of the platforms usually you have to take stairs down under the tracks in that case or sometimes they will be on different levels


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## AlanB (May 26, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Do any of the signs for trains actually use the last station stop to denote direction? Or is it all uptown/downtown/boroughs?


With the way you've worded this question, there are two possible answers, so I'll give you both.

Signs on the trains themselves will indicate the last stop to help denote direction.

Signs within the stations will typically just indicate uptown/downtown or a borough.


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## AlanB (May 26, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Notice the (UPTOWN) and (DOWNTN) references. That is the first time I have seen that on the MTA trip planner. Does that mean two seperate stations? Will we have to come above ground, then go back down?


It's not really two seperate stations but there are two platforms. One is for uptown trains and the other for downtown trains. You have to walk through a mid-level area for people only to move between the N train platform (which is center island), and the two plaforms below the N train level. The 59th Street station really has technically 4 levels. At the lowest level is the Lexington Avenue Express (#4, #5)tracks running north/south. One level above that is the aforementioned pedestrian corridor. The next level up is the east/west running Broadway (yellow) line that carried the N. And the final level up is the Lexington Avenue local trains (#6) running north/south.

Now, all that said, if I were standing on 59th Street and 5th Ave and wanting to go to High Street Brooklyn, I'd probably just walk over to 6th Avenue and 57th Street. There you can board the downtown F train. Take that to West 4th Street and walk up the stairs to the A train and board it there. It's a slightly longer walk on the surface, but instead of having to make two confusing transfers to/from the Lexington Avenue line, you'll have one very simple transfer at West 4th Street.

And it you thought my instructions about the transfer at Lexington/59th were confusing, I don't even want to tell you what you might have to go through down at Fulton Street. Especially since there is a lot of construction going on down there right now while they rebuild that very complex station and link it into the WTC also. So passageways keep chaging as they move things around and reubild.


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## tp49 (May 26, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Now, all that said, if I were standing on 59th Street and 5th Ave and wanting to go to High Street Brooklyn, I'd probably just walk over to 6th Avenue and 57th Street. There you can board the downtown F train. Take that to West 4th Street and walk up the stairs to the A train and board it there. It's a slightly longer walk on the surface, but instead of having to make two confusing transfers to/from the Lexington Avenue line, you'll have one very simple transfer at West 4th Street.


If I were standing at the same corner I'd just walk the three blocks over to Columbus Circle at 59th and 8th Avenue and take the A train to High Street in Brooklyn. One seat no transfer and a walk of probably similar distance.


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## AlanB (May 26, 2009)

tp49 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Now, all that said, if I were standing on 59th Street and 5th Ave and wanting to go to High Street Brooklyn, I'd probably just walk over to 6th Avenue and 57th Street. There you can board the downtown F train. Take that to West 4th Street and walk up the stairs to the A train and board it there. It's a slightly longer walk on the surface, but instead of having to make two confusing transfers to/from the Lexington Avenue line, you'll have one very simple transfer at West 4th Street.
> ...


No, the rule of thumb is walking from one avenue to the next is the same as walking 3 streets down an avenue. So your route would be 9 blocks, while mine is 5. Or if you prefer real distances, it's 430 yards to the F train from 5th Ave, compared to 880 yards to the A train at Columbus Circle and 8th Avenue.


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## George Harris (May 26, 2009)

Unless you are a New Yorker, their system borders on the incomprehensible. I have had easier times finding my way in cities in foreign countries where I can not even read most of the signs than I have had in NYC.


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## PRR 60 (May 26, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> ...Notice the (UPTOWN) and (DOWNTN) references. That is the first time I have seen that on the MTA trip planner. Does that mean two seperate stations? Will we have to come above ground, then go back down?


In some cases the Uptown and Downtown platforms do not have a mezzanine above connecting the two. In those cases, the entrances at the street level are marked Uptown or Downtown. When you see that signage at the street entrance, it signifies that you can only access that platform from that entrance. You might have to cross the street to get to the other direction. If the street entrance only shows the line and not a direction, then you will be able to access both directions.


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## PRR 60 (May 26, 2009)

George Harris said:


> Unless you are a New Yorker, their system borders on the incomprehensible. I have had easier times finding my way in cities in foreign countries where I can not even read most of the signs than I have had in NYC.


George, I have to say that I find the NYC Subway system pretty easy to negociate. The lines and directions are reasonably well marked and color and shape coded.
I had the chance to ride one of the new R160 trains two weeks ago. Those cars have really slick computerized route maps and station annoucements. The best I ever experienced anywhere. And, unlike the advertising message board on Acela that occasionaly flash the next station info, the R160 boards wher showing the correct stations. I don't think I've been on an Acela yet where that board was right.


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## printman2000 (May 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Do any of the signs for trains actually use the last station stop to denote direction? Or is it all uptown/downtown/boroughs?
> ...


That is helpful. The trip planner always refers to the last stop and not uptown/downtown/borough.


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## printman2000 (May 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Now, all that said, if I were standing on 59th Street and 5th Ave and wanting to go to High Street Brooklyn, I'd probably just walk over to 6th Avenue and 57th Street. There you can board the downtown F train. Take that to West 4th Street and walk up the stairs to the A train and board it there. It's a slightly longer walk on the surface, but instead of having to make two confusing transfers to/from the Lexington Avenue line, you'll have one very simple transfer at West 4th Street.


Course, the trip planner did not give that option. Thanks, I will use yours!


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## p&sr (May 27, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> In some cases the Uptown and Downtown platforms do not have a mezzanine above connecting the two. In those cases, the entrances at the street level are marked Uptown or Downtown.


Here's another hint. I think Uptown means "North" and Downtown means "South". At least that's how it looks from California.


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## AlanB (May 27, 2009)

p&sr said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > In some cases the Uptown and Downtown platforms do not have a mezzanine above connecting the two. In those cases, the entrances at the street level are marked Uptown or Downtown.
> ...


You are correct. At least as far as the average lay person is concerned.

If however one is motorman for the subway, that's not always true. For example someone operating the J train across the Williamsburg bridge into Manhattan headed for Chambers Street and the southern tip of Manhattan is actually going north.  At least according to RR direction.


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## railiner (Jun 21, 2009)

AlanB said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > PRR 60 said:
> ...


Is North and South the only timetable directions on the subway? If so what direction are Manhattan bound 7 and L trains operating?

I suppose the 42 street shuttle is Northbound towards Time Square as a segment of when it ran throught from City Hall to Harlem?


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## AlanB (Jun 21, 2009)

railiner said:


> Is North and South the only timetable directions on the subway?


Yes.



railiner said:


> If so what direction are Manhattan bound 7 and L trains operating?


A #7 headed to Flushing is running north and an L running towards Manhattan is running north.



railiner said:


> I suppose the 42 street shuttle is Northbound towards Time Square as a segment of when it ran throught from City Hall to Harlem?


Correct.


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## railiner (Jun 21, 2009)

AlanB said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Is North and South the only timetable directions on the subway?
> ...


So if you're going from Grand Central to Times Square on the 7, and your friend is doing it on the S, you're going in opposite directions?! :lol: :blink:


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## AlanB (Jun 21, 2009)

railiner said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...


Yes, that would be true.

However, I still think it even odder that someone riding the M train from Brooklyn to Manhattan is going south.


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## railiner (Jun 21, 2009)

That wins the prize!!!


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## railiner (Jun 21, 2009)

This reminds me of the Coast Starlight. From Portland to Oakland it's running West and then from Oakland to Los Angeles it's running East and vice-versa for going the other way. The employee TT uses train numbers 12 and 13 between Oakland and Los Angeles. On the old SP, everything going to San Francisco was going west.


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