# Buying 2 coach seats for 1 person?



## Blackshirt Husker (Jan 12, 2011)

Has anyone ever done this? Is it even allowed by Amtrak? I have an in-law who wants to travel from Spokane to Minneapolis and wants to brave coach the entire way, but she's worried about the randomness of who might end up next to her (and isn't buying into my "meeting new people is part of Amtrak's charm" pep talk). Appreciate your replies in advance- thanks!


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## zephyr17 (Jan 12, 2011)

Dwight K. Schrute said:


> Has anyone ever done this? Is it even allowed by Amtrak? I have an in-law who wants to travel from Spokane to Minneapolis and wants to brave coach the entire way, but she's worried about the randomness of who might end up next to her (and isn't buying into my "meeting new people is part of Amtrak's charm" pep talk). Appreciate your replies in advance- thanks!


I don't know if the reservation system would support this, but even if it did, on a long trip, a downline conductor or the car attendant is likely to seat someone in the next seat if the train if full. Don't know for sure, but do not think it will work.

If she feels that strongly, she should get a roomette. That is guaranteed to be hers and hers alone.


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## Eris (Jan 12, 2011)

What is more important to her, 'braving' coach, or the fear of a sucktastic seatmate? If it's the latter, she should just get a roomette.


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## the_traveler (Jan 12, 2011)

Even if she buys "2 seats", that is what she is purchasing - 2 seats on the train! It is not necessarily seats # 1 & #2 in the same car - it could be seat # 16 in the 2nd car and seat # 37 in the 3rd car!




If they need a seat to put a single traveler to keep a family or group together, there is nothing that says they could not put another passenger in the unoccupied seat next to her!

I agree with the earlier advice to buy a roomette, if she doesn't want anybody next to her! It may even be less than buying 2 coach tickets - plus all meals in the Dining Car would be included!



Plus there is a free wine tasting offered only to sleeper passengers on the EB!


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## Blackshirt Husker (Jan 12, 2011)

Eris said:


> What is more important to her, 'braving' coach, or the fear of a sucktastic seatmate? If it's the latter, she should just get a roomette.


Agreed, especially when you consider that Amtrak's coach is a million times more comfortable than an airline's version of coach (and is arguably competitive with an airline's first class in terms of comfort). Thanks to all for the quick replies.


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## guest (Jan 12, 2011)

It's called double booking, and as far as I know, it's strictly forbidden.


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

guest said:


> It's called double booking, and as far as I know, it's strictly forbidden.


I don't think it's strictly forbidden. I'm sure Amtrak would gladly sell you 2 tickets, if one was for "Sue" and one was for "Jane".

But as said, if there was an unoccupied seat next to her, and they needed that seat (especially for someone boarding in the middle of the night), there is nothing to stop them from seating someone there! (I have gone to sleep with an empty seat next to me, and woke up the following morning to find it occupied by somebody who boarded during the night. I have also been on the other side.)


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jan 13, 2011)

Amtrak will allow it, and Conductors will make a point to honor it-- even begrudgingly.


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## LA Resident (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > It's called double booking, and as far as I know, it's strictly forbidden.
> ...


I did this once on a flight from New York to Tokyo and had the middle and window seat on the plane--far less expensive than buying business class. It provided me the extra leg room to somehow sleep fitfully, and it allowed both myself, and the lucky freeloader in the aisle seat, a spare seat and tray table to pile things on.

Admittedly, because individual seats are assigned on airplanes, I could do this (essentially the same thing that some airlines now require very, very fat people to do).

It's a good point to raise that on Amtrak, you would be buying two seats on the train, not specific seat assignments. Nevertheless, I would expect that coach car attendants would give you two adjoining seats, and the necessary seat checks, if you presented two separate tickets. Since the system is not supposed to oversell the train, there would always be a seat somewhere else on the train for a new passenger, even someone boarding late at night.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 13, 2011)

Amtrak's bizarre assumption that we all want to be extremely close to our neighbors without even so much as an armrest between us is the issue IMO. Just because I may enjoy meeting new people doesn't mean I enjoy being in routine physical contact with them for hours on end. Although there are a few helpful posts here and there this thread still suffers from the same knee-jerk reaction as most other coach-related threads on AU. Namely, everyone just assumes that sleeper compartments are _always_ the answer for _everyone_ with _any_ concern about traveling in coach. Never mind that sometimes sleepers sell out or can be substantially more than two coach seats. To the OP, I suggest she go ahead and buy the two tickets and ask for two destination slips to put above her seats when boarding. So long as she keeps her stubs with her she should receive two adjoining seats for her to use as she pleases. Although I have not yet done this myself I see no reason why Amtrak would not honor it if both seats are paid for.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2011)

Dwight K. Schrute said:


> ..., but she's worried about the randomness of who might end up next to her...


As noted, no one in coach has a specific assigned seat. When you buy a "reserved" coach ticket, you are simply buying somewhere seat sit, somewhere on the train.

So, while she can buy two seats, she would not be buying the seat next to hers.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 13, 2011)

Guest said:


> As noted, no one in coach has a specific assigned seat. When you buy a "reserved" coach ticket, you are simply buying somewhere seat sit, somewhere on the train. So, while she can buy two seats, she would not be buying the seat next to hers.


What possible reason would Amtrak have for selling the same customer two seats to the same destination in two completely different areas of the train if _*nobody*_ has been promised any specific coach seat in advance? So long as the seats are paid for and are active for the same travel segment they should be together. There may be extremely rare situations where this somehow isn't possible, but under standard operating procedure this should be fairly easy to accommodate, even for Amtrak.


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## Rafi (Jan 13, 2011)

I've actually done this. It's not a formal amtrak policy, but almost all conductors will honor both tickets. Finding 2 seats together is up to the passenger or a helpful coach attendant or conductor--it is not guaranteed. You may have to wait for two seats to open up side by side. But once they do, I have yet to find a conductor who will not keep them clear for you. I've even gone so far as to purchase four tickets as part of an AGR redemption and to take a four-seater on a surfliner for a wide open, clear workspace (and I used every inch of it). The conductor gladly honored it and kept it clear for me.

Rafi


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## grounded flyboy (Jan 13, 2011)

I think daxomni is onto something. It probably isn't written anywhere in the Rules of the Rails bible for conductors how to handle this situation but two destination slips over your head carry a lot of weight. For example, I have set next to people who stay in their seat long enough to get their ticket punched, then off to the lounge for hours. As other people board, no one is given that seat next to me as long as the destination slip is active. Also, it has been my experience that if proximity seats are needed for a family, the conductor will rearrange using passengers that are physically present.

My bet is that 99 out of 100 times the two seats would start together and remain together for the trip. If not, and it were me, I'd speak up and defend my two tickets... both are paid for and have the same rights to unassigned seating as any other paid passenger.


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## abcnews (Jan 13, 2011)

You should really be able to purchase a child's ticket at half price. Then just say you have an "imaginary friend". I'm sure they would keep you two together, and far away from the other passengers..... Hmmn


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## RRrich (Jan 13, 2011)

She should buy a 'cello and then buy two tickets - one for her and one for the 'cello.


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## Tumbleweed (Jan 13, 2011)

abcnews said:


> You should really be able to purchase a child's ticket at half price. Then just say you have an "imaginary friend". I'm sure they would keep you two together, and far away from the other passengers..... Hmmn


:giggle:


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## guest (Jan 13, 2011)

RRrich said:


> She should buy a 'cello and then buy two tickets - one for her and one for the 'cello.


Maybe it's cheaper just not to shower for a week before the trip, wear clothes that haven't been washed for a month, and then dare anyone to sit next to you!

Given the obsession that some people responding on the "trains in the old days" have about showering every hour on the hour, the OP won't need to worry about a seatmate plopping down!

(Of course,the OP will have to be able to stand himself!! Or herself!!)


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

daxomni said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > As noted, no one in coach has a specific assigned seat. When you buy a "reserved" coach ticket, you are simply buying somewhere seat sit, somewhere on the train. So, while she can buy two seats, she would not be buying the seat next to hers.
> ...


While that is true, if a family boards (say a mother and her 3 year old daughter), and all other seats are full but there are 2 seats occupied by single travelers in seats #56 and #12, would you rather split the family up, or move the single traveler so the mother and her daughter can sit together?



Especially if they are boarding at 1 AM!


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> While that is true, if a family boards (say a mother and her 3 year old daughter), and all other seats are full but there are 2 seats occupied by single travelers in seats #56 and #12, would you rather split the family up, or move the single traveler so the mother and her daughter can sit together?
> 
> 
> 
> Especially if they are boarding at 1 AM!


Why? My kid and I have been split up, because there are no two seats next to each other when we first boarded. Seems a lot of single travelers like to grab a "window seat", leaving many isle seats empty.

And I have never seen the car attendant or conductor come thru the car and force 1/2 the single travelers move to an isle seat. Possibly, these single travelers are "regulars" who they don't want to upset?


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

Guest said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > While that is true, if a family boards (say a mother and her 3 year old daughter), and all other seats are full but there are 2 seats occupied by single travelers in seats #56 and #12, would you rather split the family up, or move the single traveler so the mother and her daughter can sit together?
> ...


I've been *asked* many time if I would mind moving so a family could sit together. And I've had others *asked* if they would mind moving too.

Maybe I'm not like you, but if I were *asked* to move so a mother and her young child could sit together, I would have no problem doing so!



It's one thing for a father and his 16 year old son to be split up, but another for a mother and her 2 year old daughter to be split up!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> While that is true, if a family boards (say a mother and her 3 year old daughter), and all other seats are full...


Why would _all_ other seats be full? I haven't seen Amtrak overselling the trains I ride, but even if they did why wouldn't they simply follow the traditional model where whoever arrives first gets their seats as purchased and whoever arrives last gets to deal with the consequences? In general I don't think most (LD) trains are going out with every single seat taken but if they are there is still plenty of precedent for how to deal with it objectively and without arbitrarily penalizing single travelers.



the_traveler said:


> I've been *asked* many time if I would mind moving so a family could sit together. And I've had others *asked* if they would mind moving too.


If neither you or anyone else you saw moved had purchased *two* seats for *one* individual then your examples do *not* apply to the situation we're presently discussing. I'm tempted to go buy two tickets on the next train out just to see what would happen but I've never been on a train that left SAS completely full to the _very last seat_. Sometimes we don't need to fully define every possible situation before we can give out general advice.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2011)

I think a call to Amtrak is really the only way to get a correct answer on this question.

However, especially if the traveler is flexible with dates, I would suggest pricing two in coach and one in a roomette and see what you come up with. Depending on the travel dates, the roomette option may not be much more (or could be the same or less) than two coach tickets and would include all meals in the diner. When there is high demand for coach because of groups, etc., you may be suprised as to the price difference. I always check both coach and sleeper prices before booking and many times can get a sleeper for the same price if traveling with two people.


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

daxomni said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > While that is true, if a family boards (say a mother and her 3 year old daughter), and all other seats are full...
> ...


At every station, they do not always open every door, so they try to seat people by destination whenever possible. A family could board, a certain car, and find that ever row has 1 person only in each row at the window seat. But there are rows of 2 available 3 cars back. Should they lug all their luggage thru 3 cars just so they can sit together?



And if that same (first) car is the only one where they open the door at the destination, should they lug all their bags thru the same 3 cars again?


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## DET63 (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > It's called double booking, and as far as I know, it's strictly forbidden.
> ...


Why do I get the feeling that something similar has happened to the_traveler even when he wasn't on a train?


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

DET63 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > (I have gone to sleep with an empty seat next to me, and woke up the following morning to find it occupied by somebody who boarded during the night. I have also been on the other side.)
> ...


But usually it's somebody I meet first!


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## Ispolkom (Jan 13, 2011)

Guest said:


> And I have never seen the car attendant or conductor come thru the car and force 1/2 the single travelers move to an isle seat. Possibly, these single travelers are "regulars" who they don't want to upset?


On the Empire Builder the front part of each coach is usually reserved for parties of two or more traveling together, and I've seen coach attendants enforce it. For that matter, I've asked a singleton traveling in that part of the coach to move so that Mrs. Ispolkom and I could sit together.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> At every station, they do not always open every door, so they try to seat people by destination whenever possible.


Maybe this time that's simply not possible. Maybe this time they'll simply open a _different_ door and put the family in _another_ car. Problem solved and imaginary crisis averted. If I had the means and the will to buy _every single seat_ and compartment on a given train should I not be able to travel on that train completely alone? Should I be forced to let in whoever shows up at the station looking for a ride even though I've already bought out the whole train? If not then why should I be forced to let them into my paid car, my paid row, or the single paid seat next to me?


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## Pastor Dave (Jan 13, 2011)

I checked rates out for a month from now. Coach seat would be $122.00 and roomette another $133.00. So two coach seats would be $244.00 and one fare and roomette $355.00. I'd spring for the extra $100.00 not have to worry about who is sitting next to me for the next 1461 miles and 28 hours. Maybe you can convince her it's worth a few more dollars for the privacy, showers and free meals.


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## IowaGirl (Jan 13, 2011)

Pastor Dave said:


> I checked rates out for a month from now. Coach seat would be $122.00 and roomette another $133.00. So two coach seats would be $244.00 and one fare and roomette $355.00. I'd spring for the extra $100.00 not have to worry about who is sitting next to me for the next 1461 miles and 28 hours. Maybe you can convince her it's worth a few more dollars for the privacy, showers and free meals.


 Are you sure on that math? Wouldn't a coach/roomette be $255? <BR><BR>edited to add:  I looked on the AMTRAK site -coach was $122,  the roomette was an additional $233 - so that would be about what you quoted.


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## Pastor Dave (Jan 13, 2011)

IowaGirl said:


> Pastor Dave said:
> 
> 
> > I checked rates out for a month from now. Coach seat would be $122.00 and roomette another $133.00. So two coach seats would be $244.00 and one fare and roomette $355.00. I'd spring for the extra $100.00 not have to worry about who is sitting next to me for the next 1461 miles and 28 hours. Maybe you can convince her it's worth a few more dollars for the privacy, showers and free meals.
> ...


Correct. Accomodation fee was $233 on top of the $122.00 fare. Total would be $355 for a roomette opposed to $244 for two coach seats.


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

daxomni said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > At every station, they do not always open every door, so they try to seat people by destination whenever possible.
> ...


Many stops are just long enough to board passengers (like under 1 minute). Many times, by the time I put my luggage in the rack and get upstairs, the train is already moving. So the family gets upstairs and then finds that the only seats are on opposite ends of the car, and that *YOU* do not want to move - are they supposed to stop the train, call dispatch to get authorization to back up, have the Conductor position himself or herself at the back door, and then back up to the station - just so they can open another door?





Remember that you did not purchase 2 seats next to each other (unless you *SPECIFICALLY* requested seats #1 and #2), which Amtrak does not do! You only reserved 2 seats on that certain train, but there is nothing that says they must be together!



Why should 1 person be allowed to take 2 seats next to other at the expense of a family that wants to sit together?





Part of traveling on Amtrak is meeting and taking to other people! I supposed you are one that also demands to be seated in the Dining Car booth alone - restricting 3 other passengers from having a meal?


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## Pastor Dave (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Being seated alone for dinner is usually reserved only for premeire travelers, like the_traveler. We who reside with the hoi-polloi are usually seated with others....  Or, worse yet, our own relatives... (the_traveler - I hope you will take this as a compliment on your high status on the rails...)


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

Pastor Dave said:


> Being seated alone for dinner is usually reserved only for premeire travelers, like the_traveler. We who reside with the hoi-polloi are usually seated with others....  Or, worse yet, our own relatives... (the_traveler - I hope you will take this as a compliment on your high status on the rails...)


Usually I take my meals in the penthouse suite, served by my staff!


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## Pastor Dave (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Pastor Dave said:
> 
> 
> > Being seated alone for dinner is usually reserved only for premeire travelers, like the_traveler. We who reside with the hoi-polloi are usually seated with others....  Or, worse yet, our own relatives... (the_traveler - I hope you will take this as a compliment on your high status on the rails...)
> ...


I stand corrected-and penitent for my assumption


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Many times, by the time I put my luggage in the rack and get upstairs, the train is already moving. So the family gets upstairs and then finds that the only seats are on opposite ends of the car, and that *YOU* do not want to move - are they supposed to stop the train, call dispatch to get authorization to back up, have the Conductor position himself or herself at the back door, and then back up to the station - just so they can open another door?


Maybe this mythical family shouldn't be riding the train if they can't even manage to make it to the next coach car. Or maybe it's time you dropped this contrived attempt to pit implausibly abusive single travelers against impossibly fragile families?



the_traveler said:


> Remember that you did not purchase 2 seats next to each other (unless you *SPECIFICALLY* requested seats #1 and #2), which Amtrak does not do! You only reserved 2 seats on that certain train, but there is nothing that says they must be together!


Wouldn't that point apply equally to your mythical fainting family as well?



the_traveler said:


> I supposed you are one that also demands to be seated in the Dining Car booth alone - restricting 3 other passengers from having a meal?


It's funny you would say this since I tend to avoid the diner but if I was willing to buy four meals at once, sure, why not? :lol:


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## EB_OBS (Jan 13, 2011)

A couple of things, first, I don't know what Amtrak's policy is in this regard. I am checking into it though because I'm curious. I can say that as far as I'm concerned, and I think most conductors too, if you paid for two seats, then most Amtrak staff would not object to you having two seats together. I do not believe most would be jerks and give you two seats at opposite ends of the car.

That being said, Amtrak does try, and Train Attendants should too, to sit couples and families together. This occasionally means asking a single traveler to change seats. It certainly is easier when the TA is good and experienced at managing their cars and don't let every single traveler spread out to where there aren't any double seats available.

You also are not supposed to move to another car other than the one you were boarded on. Passengers are boarded based upon final destination and the passengers already on board going to the same destination. If there aren't seats available together ask the TA for assistance. If your final destination is a major stop where ALL doors open then ask the attendant or conductor about moving to another car.

One final note regarding a single passenger purchasing two seats. As I said, myself and I believe most conductors and attendants would have no problem if you paid for it. There is one caveat though, Amtrak can and does overbook trains by a percentage. If it comes to this and the train is oversold, I'm going to give that seat to a live passenger who otherwise would be standing or having to sit in the lounge. I'd happily return the ticket and call customer service to advise that you are due a refund.


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## amamba (Jan 13, 2011)

I hate to disagree with the_traveler, but I am just not seeing why this hypothetical family, who bought two seats, is somehow taking priority over a single person who *bought two seats. *Sure, amtrak does not guarantee two seats together, so why should the family assume that they get to sit together over the person who bought two seats?

Now, what about a legitimate person of size who might need two sizes? I realize one would need to be very large to require two seats on amtrak, but those people are out there and probably not flying, either. Shouldn't they be able to buy two seats for the comfort of everyone involved?


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## guest (Jan 13, 2011)

Maybe I should try this on the Cardinal next month. Low-bucket fares are down to $57 CVS-CHI.


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## LA Resident (Jan 13, 2011)

amamba said:


> I hate to disagree with the_traveler, but I am just not seeing why this hypothetical family, who bought two seats, is somehow taking priority over a single person who *bought two seats. *Sure, amtrak does not guarantee two seats together, so why should the family assume that they get to sit together over the person who bought two seats?
> 
> Now, what about a legitimate person of size who might need two sizes? I realize one would need to be very large to require two seats on amtrak, but those people are out there and probably not flying, either. Shouldn't they be able to buy two seats for the comfort of everyone involved?


Good point about Supersized individuals. To add to that, I as a single passenger would be less than happy if the conductor or coach attendant directed me to take a seat next to such a person who had purchased two seats. You'd be ending up with half-a-seat, at best!

All of this boils down to common sense and courtesy. EB_OBS has got it right: unless there was some extreme case of standing passengers, personnel would use good judgment and give you the two seats together.

And all of this also raises another hypothetical for the Traveler to chew on: why not allow Amtrak to sell the upper bunk in a roomette only occupied by one person, in cases where rooms are sold out? Actually, it's not a hypothetical in Europe, it's the reality. That's what they do in Europe. I bought both sleeper spaces in rooms on trains in the Czech Republic and on the German City Nite train in order to make sure I didn't end up with a stranger sleeping with me.


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## the_traveler (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm just going to say this final things, and agree to disagree.

True, the single traveler has the same right to take 2 seats that (s)he paid for as the family. I'm not saying all (or any) train travelers are child molesters, but would you prefer your 3 year old daughter to be sitting and sleeping next to a man on the opposite end of the car as her parent, or next to her parent after a single traveler was asked to move so 2 seats next to each other could be used?





I have heard of "a person of size" on some airline (I forget which) that was required to buy 2 seats. The airline assigned him something like seats 15-C and 23-D!


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## Pastor Dave (Jan 13, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I have heard of "a person of size" on some airline (I forget which) that was required to buy 2 seats. The airline assigned him something like seats 15-C and 23-D!


Whoever that is might want to start skipping desserts....


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## ButFli (Jan 14, 2011)

So um... I heard that Amtrak cancels a ticket if the ticketholder does not board the train at their station. Even if two seats are booked in the same name there will only be one person by that name boarding the train. Doesn't that mean the other ticket would/could be cancelled?


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 14, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I'm not saying all (or any) train travelers are child molesters, but would you prefer your 3 year old daughter to be sitting and sleeping next to a man on the opposite end of the car as her parent, or next to her parent after a single traveler was asked to move so 2 seats next to each other could be used?


What on earth are you even talking about anymore? First you accuse single travelers of being antisocial by trying to avoid being paired up with other strangers. Then you turn around and accuse them of plotting to get closer to children. Or forcing children to be paired up with _other_ strangers? It's hard to know what exactly you're worried about because it's utterly bizarre and incomprehensible as written. Nothing you've said explains how you ever developed these concerns or came to these conclusions. It's just mind boggling to see such a simple topic get twisted into such a confusing discussion for no obvious reason or benefit.



the_traveler said:


> I have heard of "a person of size" on some airline (I forget which) that was required to buy 2 seats. The airline assigned him something like seats 15-C and 23-D!


Maybe you just forgot the part where the obese person wasn't actually cut into two pieces and was instead allowed to sit in two adjoining seats regardless of what the reservation said?


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## hhswami (Jan 14, 2011)

I've boarded the southbound Meteor #97 at Richmond, VA before to find the train oversold, and needed to wait around an hour before being assigned a coach seat. If I'd bought two coach seats for that journey in the same manner the OP suggests, it would most likely have been a huge hassle and disappointment. Instead, I was treated to a wait in the Club Car talking to a group on their way to a family reunion in Savannah. The interaction with them was a highlight of the evening.

I dare say IMHO the in-law seems a bit too paranoid for coach travel, and instead should book a roomette if they are that unwilling to take a chance on who sits beside them. Given the nature of Amtrak reservations, booking two coach seats on an LD train and expecting the crew to make sure both of your seats would be side-by-side seems impractical.

As a quick test, I tried costing a coach seat SPK-MSP a week from now. A roomette added on the #8 Empire Builder was $9 more that the cost of the coach fare. Another option was a #28 roomette (same Empire Builder, correct?) for $80 above coach fare!

Book a seat on either #8 or #28 = $153. Two seats same/either Builder $306. Roomette on #8 = $315. Roomette on #28 = $386. Whaddup wid dis?!


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## Ryan (Jan 14, 2011)

daxomni said:


> First you accuse single travelers of being antisocial by trying to avoid being paired up with other strangers. Then you turn around and accuse them of plotting to get closer to children.


You're making stuff up again, I've seen Dave say neither of these things. Stop constructing strawmen.


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## the_traveler (Jan 14, 2011)

hhswami said:


> Book a seat on either #8 or #28 = $153. Two seats same/either Builder $306. Roomette on #8 = $315. Roomette on #28 = $386. Whaddup wid dis?!


Train #8 and #28 do in fact operate as one train between Spokane and Chicago, but because of a limitation of Arrow (the computer reservation system), each "train" must be sold (and priced) separately! The only difference is #8 has 2-3 sleepers and comes from Seattle. and #28 has 1 sleeper and comes from Portland. So #8 has 2-3 times more rooms than #28, so usually the fares are lower on #8!


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## the_traveler (Jan 14, 2011)

Thank you, Ryan! No I never said either thing.


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## chandj (Jan 14, 2011)

I defer to those more knowledgeable as to Amtrak's policy on buying 2 seats and using 1, but I should think that if the train is crowded, the OP's relative might feel some pressure from other passengers looking for seats. I went to Harrisburg from Greensburg and back just a few days before Christmas with a 2 year old. Business class was busy, but I found us 2 seats together. Pretty soon, the car was PACKED and a few of the boarding passengers would think the seat beside me was empty until they got there and saw it was occupied by a child. I got some dirty looks and one person went to the attendant to see if she would ask me to hold the child on my lap so an adult could sit. She didn't ask me, but I could hear the conversation. It did make me a bit uncomfortable (but not as uncomfortable as having my 37 pound child sit on me for 4 hours!) BTW, coming back I couldn't find us 2 seats together so I was sitting holding my little guy on my lap when the attendant moved the stuff of a single-traveling passenger from the window seat (while he was in the snack car) to an aisle seat so I could have 2 seats together. I didn't ask her to but I didn't say no. I felt bad and offered to buy the guy a drink when he came back, but he wasn't too happy.


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## hhswami (Jan 14, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> hhswami said:
> 
> 
> > Book a seat on either #8 or #28 = $153. Two seats same/either Builder $306. Roomette on #8 = $315. Roomette on #28 = $386. Whaddup wid dis?!
> ...


Thanks for the explanation, traveler. Seems then if two coach tickets were purchased, one could end up at a higher bucket price. Would the reserved seating be assigned to the specific cars in the same manner?


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## Ryan (Jan 14, 2011)

Going west, absolutely - if you were assigned to the wrong coach and were headed to PDX, you could end up in Seattle!

Going east, if you board after Spokane, I'm not sure that it matters...


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## Ispolkom (Jan 14, 2011)

East of Spokane, you're boarded by destination, regardless of what train number your ticket has. For instance, if I'm traveling from St. Paul to Minot, I'll usually be assigned to a Portland coach, even if I've bought a ticket on #7. Another example: a ticket on #808 between St. Paul and Milwaukee is often cheaper than on #8 or #28, but I've never been assigned to the extra St. Paul-Chicago coach when I've had a ticket on #808 to Milwaukee.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I have heard of "a person of size" on some airline (I forget which) that was required to buy 2 seats. The airline assigned him something like seats 15-C and 23-D!


In the last episode of BBC's new mockumentary "Come Fly With Me" they poke fun at just that situation. I am sure some of the plane haters out there would love this show.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 16, 2011)

Ryan said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > First you accuse single travelers of being antisocial by trying to avoid being paired up with other strangers. Then you turn around and accuse them of plotting to get closer to children.
> ...


I'm just trying to understand what Dave's problem is. Apparently nobody knows. Including Dave.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jan 16, 2011)

daxomni said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni said:
> ...


Oh shove off Dave already, pick on someone your own size Dax.


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## Ryan (Jan 16, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Indeed. Looks like Dave's only problem is you trying to pick a fight with him.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 16, 2011)

I didn't even know internet users had a "size."


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jan 16, 2011)

Only their egos...


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## PennCentralFan (Jan 16, 2011)

If someone buys two seats they are entitled to the space of two seats. Now I don't think there has to be a promise that the seats are together. Since amtrak does not assign specific seats you can't complain if you get two seats that are apart. From what I've seen if you're that anti-social you should get a roomette since it appears the price is cheaper or not that much more expensive when you consider the meals.

What really bothers me are people who buy one seat and then put their bag in the other seat so they can have a seat next to themselves and to discourage people from sitting next to them. That is plain rude.


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## chandj (Jan 17, 2011)

PennCentralFan said:


> What really bothers me are people who buy one seat and then put their bag in the other seat so they can have a seat next to themselves and to discourage people from sitting next to them. That is plain rude.


Me too--I see this frequently and it is really, really rude.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2011)

PennCentralFan said:


> Now I don't think there has to be a promise that the seats are together. Since amtrak does not assign specific seats you can't complain if you get two seats that are apart.


What nobody has been able to explain to me is how Amtrak *benefits* from giving the same person two seats in completely different areas. Why would Amtrak do that? Why shouldn't anyone complain about this if they did? It's true that most domestic airlines do allow specific seat reservations and yet there is still no _guarantee_ that you'll get the seat you're ticketed in. Nonetheless I still get that seat 99.9% of the time even without the guarantee. I presume this is because there is *no obvious benefit* for the airline to intentionally screw with us, just as there would be no obvious benefit for Amtrak to screw with someone willing to pay for multiple seats. Worst case for Amtrak is that they have to take a minute or two of asking people to move around and suddenly the two or more seats are together. Its like this thread is being fielded by people who can't comprehend that Amtrak has *nothing to gain* from screwing with their best coach customers just because they can.



PennCentralFan said:


> From what I've seen if you're that anti-social you should get a roomette since it appears the price is cheaper or not that much more expensive when you consider the meals.


What if I buy two seats and then invite someone with good hygiene and an interesting personality to come sit with me, does that still mean I'm being anti-social since I bought two seats just for me? Some of us love to chat with strangers or new found friends, but we also like to weed out the uneducated/smelly/boring types first. We don't expect Amtrak to do that for us; we just want the ability to do it for ourselves with our own money. The very basis of capitalism in action, I would think.



PennCentralFan said:


> What really bothers me are people who buy one seat and then put their bag in the other seat so they can have a seat next to themselves and to discourage people from sitting next to them. That is plain rude.


If _this_ is what really bothers you then why aren't you thrilled that Amtrak would offer these folks the chance to pay for both seats? It seems as though you're bashing both the root of the problem and the most reasonable solution to said problem. I think we all know that not every roomette will be as cheap as two coach seats, nor will there be a roomette at any price for every single coach customer who doesn't want to sit or sleep hip-to-hip for hours on end with a total stranger.


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## LA Resident (Jan 17, 2011)

chandj said:


> PennCentralFan said:
> 
> 
> > What really bothers me are people who buy one seat and then put their bag in the other seat so they can have a seat next to themselves and to discourage people from sitting next to them. That is plain rude.
> ...


You both would not be surprised to know that this happens on a daily basis on the afternoon Surfliners south from LA to San Diego, as many commuters board two departures in particular (and Metrolink monthly pass holders can take the Amtrak as well).

While it galls me to no end, I always count to 10, then ask politely if the seat is taken. I've gotten a few dismayed looks, but no one has ever said that their briefcase, or Starbucks cup, or whatever, takes precedence. For sure, they don't want someone calling the conductor over. I guess it's just human nature. I don't usually chat with these people; we both just sit there separately and do business, or nap, or eat. Now if Amtrak offered all passengers the chance to buy two seats and put anything they wanted in the second seat, they probably could make some money off of it because there are some incredibly unsocial people around--or people who think they need a five-feet buffer between them and their fellow human beings or believe their "stuff" is better than "people." hboy:


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## Ispolkom (Jan 17, 2011)

Is there any public transportation system where this doesn't happen? As a large and intimidating man, I feel it's my duty to always choose to sit next to some one who has placed his stuff on a seat. I haven't gotten shanked yet.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> Is there any public transportation system where this doesn't happen?


Those that have assigned seating? Seems like Amtrak could offer it if they really had a problem with this.



Ispolkom said:


> As a large and intimidating man, I feel it's my duty to always choose to sit next to some one who has placed his stuff on a seat. I haven't gotten shanked yet.


That explains so much.


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## AlanB (Jan 19, 2011)

ButFli said:


> So um... I heard that Amtrak cancels a ticket if the ticketholder does not board the train at their station. Even if two seats are booked in the same name there will only be one person by that name boarding the train. Doesn't that mean the other ticket would/could be cancelled?


I'm not sure where you heard that, but it is most certainly not true. At least at present, things may change when Amtrak finally gets e-tickets, Amtrak has no way of knowing if someone showed up to board the train in coach. In a sleeper, it is easier for them to know, since the attendant keeps track of who boards and informs the conductor that a passenger no-showed. In that case the sleeper can be resold.

But again, in coach, Amtrak has no way of knowing that someone no showed while the train is in transit.

However, in the scenario being talked about here, the passenger with two tickets would have to turn both in to the conductor to have any hope of keeping both seats. Therefore, even though the second ticket is for a non-person, they still didn't no show as far as Amtrak is concerned. Amtrak collected both tickets and got the revenue for them so even if they did know who had showed up, and again they don't, as far as Amtrak is concerned both people did show up.


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## wyo_nat (Mar 22, 2011)

Hi there....FYI - I did try to purchase two tickets last year, and was quickly shot down by Amtrak. Unfortunately, I have stopped taking the train because of this. If they change their policy to allow folks to occupy as many seats as they purchase, I'd come back.

Here's an email thread between me and Amtrak that occurred when I asked customer support why they would not allow this:

WARNING - LONG

---------------

Dear XXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us.

We will not, book two seats for a passenger simply

because he or she does not want anyone sitting next to him

or her. If the train is full it is very hard to explain to

someone who is standing why that empty seat cannot be used.

Such a passenger has other options which in many cases may

be cheaper: day use of a sleeping car room, first class

seating (and sit in a single seat), travel during a time

when ridership is light, etc.

We hope that this information will assist you.

Sincerely,

Diane

Amtrak Customer Service

Amtrak.com | Stations | Routes | Deals | Plan a Trip | Help

Amtrak is a registered service mark of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation.

--Original Message--

From: XXXXXXX

Date: 6/4/2010 9:54:35 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: New Reservation Questions

Message:

Hi there, I am planning to take the train from Cary, NC to Fort Myers, FL on 07/16/10 and 07/20/10. I'll be traveling alone on the Silver Star, and wanted to purchase two coach class seats to give me a little more room to stretch out and sleep during the long trip. When I purchased the ticket at the Durham Station, I was told that one person could not purchase/occupy two seats...that it was against policy. I guess I'm curious why Amtrak would refuse the extra revenue offered by a customer that is willing to pay extra for the guarantee to have two seats. If there is no such policy, please let me know, so I can purchase the extra seat for my upcoming trip. Alternatively, if there is indeed a one person/one seat policy please explain why such a policy is in place, because it makes no sense to me, a customer who is willing to pay extra for a little more comfort. I've ridden the train many times before in the past, and have seen folks "pretend" to be sound asleep in order not to be bothered into giving up a second seat, and I'm willing to actually pay extra. I really enjoy taking the train, and often purchase sleeper accommodations. However, it can be cost prohibitive to always take a sleeper (especially when I also have the option of air travel). Please explain the one person/one seat policy to me, or let me know if it's okay to purchase the second seat. Thanks,


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 22, 2011)

wyo_nat said:


> We will not, book two seats for a passenger simply because he or she does not want anyone sitting next to him or her. If the train is full it is very hard to explain to someone who is standing why that empty seat cannot be used.


It's hard to say "he bought two tickets?"

The truly hard part is trying to understand how Diane thinks buying a half-day's worth of a sleeper compartment helps when there are no compartments left. Or how your daytime compartment would help keep a complete stranger from snuggling up to you and slobbering on your shoulder while you sleep with nothing between you all night. Or why she apparently thinks people who want to sit alone are supposed to just know which cars of which trains will eventually fill up and which ones will not at booking time.

Basically Amtrak has substituted a series of barely comprehensible platitudes where a single policy change would be both easy and simple to understand.

*AMTRAK* *FAIL*


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## amamba (Mar 22, 2011)

I thought amtrak didn't oversell their trains like planes do? It seriously makes no sense that one is not able to purchase two coach seats if one doesn't want to have a companion next to them. I really do think amtrak should revise this policy so that is it more in line with the airlines. Southwest will let ANYONE - a "customer of size" or just any person - purchase two seats in order to have the seat next to them available. And since southwest doesn't have assigned seating, it sounds just like amtrak in the coaches to me.


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## dlagrua (Mar 25, 2011)

Here is the concern in a nutshell. All seats on the train are taken and there is an individual sitting next to an empty seat. Someone standing wants to sit and asks for the seat. The guy that purchased the two seats then refuses the passenger the seat. The passenger becomes incensed by the refusal and a heated exchange of words ultimately results in a fist fight.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 25, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Here is the concern in a nutshell. All seats on the train are taken and there is an individual sitting next to an empty seat. Someone standing wants to sit and asks for the seat. The guy that purchased the two seats then refuses the passenger the seat. The passenger becomes incensed by the refusal and a heated exchange of words ultimately results in a fist fight.


I have no idea about how things work on the NEC, but out here on the LD network I was under the impression that Amtrak does not oversell their tickets to the point that there is standing room only? I don't think most folks would be upset if they continue to refuse to sell/honor multiple tickets on a commuter run but why would they refuse to sell/honor them on a 1:1 ratio LD trip? That's the part I still don't understand and nothing posted in this thread seems to explain their reasoning in that context.


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## chandj (Mar 25, 2011)

I have enjoyed this thread. I do hope the OP gets back on and tells us what happened with his in-law. Did she buy the two seats, take a roomette, stay home?? Inquiring minds want to know. I saw above that Wyo-nat documented an unsuccessful attempt to purchase 2 seats for 1 person--but with Amtrak if I don't like the first answer I call back and try with someone else, so I'm still not sure the 2 tickets for one person can't be done. I should think Amtrak would give a falling fig less if one pax wants to buy 2 seats as long as he/she knows they are not guaranteed to be available side-by-side. Sometimes I would like to keep the seat next to me open by purchasing it, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the nerve to hang on to my empty seat if other passengers looking for seats were giving me the evil eye.


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## AlanB (Mar 25, 2011)

daxomni said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the concern in a nutshell. All seats on the train are taken and there is an individual sitting next to an empty seat. Someone standing wants to sit and asks for the seat. The guy that purchased the two seats then refuses the passenger the seat. The passenger becomes incensed by the refusal and a heated exchange of words ultimately results in a fist fight.
> ...


Dax,

I don't understand either. Amtrak isn't supposed to be overselling the LD's, so I agree it really shouldn't matter if someone wants to buy two seats. In fact, Amtrak would even be saving a tiny bit on fuel, with less weight on the train to haul. Probably not measurable, but still.

Now in the case of problems where somehow the train does get overloaded, then the conductor simply says "I'm sorry, but I have to have that seat and I'll arrange a refund for you."

Frankly about the only reason that I can think of for such a rule is that Amtrak doesn't want to have to try to explain to other passengers why so and so still has an empty seat next to them when every other seat on the train is taken; and that's a rather lame excuse IMHO, but I'm throwing it out there anyhow.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 25, 2011)

Only time Ive seen a LD Train Over Sold as to Coach Seats was on the CONO from CHI-NOL where the Conductor sold Tickets for a few pax to hang out in the Club Car part of the CCC where they proceeded to drink Beer from the Cafe. The Conductor did seem to know these folks, they got on South of Memphis somewhere in the Delta and rode to New Orleans.  Of course there was one mix-up where someone was in my Roomette when I boarded the Eagle in San Marcos (they got on in SAS) but all ended well, I was upgraded to Bedroom E for Free with help of a very good SCA and friendly Conductor!, so did I complain, actually Hell No! Good tip for the SCA for sure!


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## dlagrua (Mar 25, 2011)

During the heavy snow storms here this winter the NEC Regionals and Acela trains were vastly oversold. People were standing everywhere. I've even taken the regional from PHL to WAS in good weather on a Saturday when all seats in the cafe car were taken and there were quite a few people standing in the coaches as well. It would seem that Amtrak oversells on the day( several hour) routes but not the the LD routes. I cannot imaging anyone traveling on the EB, CZ, SM, CL or any other long route standing.


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## sttsxm (Mar 25, 2011)

The conductor on 67 at o-dark-thirty this AM said to get up and stop laying across the seats but, if you wanted to he would be willing to sell people another ticket so they could have 2 seats....that train was packed, but 67 a couple days ago from BOS to WAS had MAYBE 6 people in the quiet car the whole way......at least the conductors didn't say the train was full when it wasn't.


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## EB_OBS (Mar 25, 2011)

Just FYI, I've been told before that Amtrak DOES oversell LD trains by up to 4% during peak season. In my experience working the Empire Builder during the summer months, it does happen that passengers sit in the lounge occasionally until a seat in a coach is available for them.


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## Chuu (Mar 5, 2015)

Hello all. I am a "person of size" and was researching this topic because I absolutely need two seats to ride coach. This thread is the number one link on google regarding buying two sears, so I wanted to add my information. Just so it stands out for my fellow searchers I'm going to make it big and bold:

The official policy is you can buy two seats for one person under two specific circumstances (medical disability, obesity) -- else it is explicitly disallowed.

This is covered in the Amtrak Service Standards manual, section J4. You can find a copy of the entire 700+ page manual here: http://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf. It was obtained via a FOIA request, and is not publicly avaliable on Amtrak's site.

Below is the relevant section. Note that all bold/italics is present in the original document, and is not my emphasis.

4. Coach
a)* Each Coach seat reservation entitles passengers to* occupy only one seat per person.
b) *An additional seat may be reserved for a Service Assistance Animal* accompanying a blind, deaf or mobility-impaired person at no charge.
c) *A passenger who requires two seats due to a disability*, including obesity caused by a disability, a leg in a cast, a hip operation, may book two seats and pay only one fare.
d) *A passenger who requires two seats due to size alone*, not caused by a disability, may book two seats but must pay the lowest applicable fare for both seats.
e) *A passenger cannot book two seats* simply because they do not want anyone sitting next to them. _If the train is full, it is very hard to explain to standing passengers why that empty seat cannot be used._
f)* A passenger cannot book a Coach seat and a Sleeping Car accommodation*, just so they can move back and forth between the two spaces

That being said, _almost zero people at amtrak seem to know this is the official __policy_.


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## Chuu (Mar 5, 2015)

In the post above, it should be noted that is not the latest version of the Manual, however on another forum someone with access stated that the relevant parts haven't changed.


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## Ryan (Mar 6, 2015)

That is correct.


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## seat38a (Mar 6, 2015)

amamba said:


> I thought amtrak didn't oversell their trains like planes do? It seriously makes no sense that one is not able to purchase two coach seats if one doesn't want to have a companion next to them. I really do think amtrak should revise this policy so that is it more in line with the airlines. Southwest will let ANYONE - a "customer of size" or just any person - purchase two seats in order to have the seat next to them available. And since southwest doesn't have assigned seating, it sounds just like amtrak in the coaches to me.


No they don't but nothing stops people from boarding the wrong train. Happens all the time on the Surfliner. Business class is reserved, but people will hop on a different train and now it oversold. The conductors won't throw them off the train and now you have a oversold train.


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## IowaGirl (Mar 6, 2015)

I bought 16 tickets a few years ago. 2 of us sat next to each other. We were spread out over a couple cars. We had younger kids (10 - 12) and had to work very hard to get them at least close to one of the adults.

It was late at night when we boarded, but it was VERY difficult to get people to sit up and share their seat space. The conductor was no help. I had to go and wake people up and get them to move over so we could share the seats. It was THE single worst train experience we have ever had.

CZ. Boarded in Omaha.


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## leacrane (Mar 9, 2015)

It's been a few years but I used to do it on the way north from Florida on silver meteor. Not only do you not get some stranger next to you, you can sleep across 2 seats. I had no problem with personnel not honoring right to both seats. It was less $ than a sleeper . of course now I only travel ld routes by sleeper. AGR points help.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2015)

IowaGirl said:


> I bought 16 tickets a few years ago. 2 of us sat next to each other. We were spread out over a couple cars. We had younger kids (10 - 12) and had to work very hard to get them at least close to one of the adults.
> 
> It was late at night when we boarded, but it was VERY difficult to get people to sit up and share their seat space. The conductor was no help. I had to go and wake people up and get them to move over so we could share the seats. It was THE single worst train experience we have ever had.
> 
> CZ. Boarded in Omaha.


If you have 16 people traveling together you need to make sure that is on your PNR (reservation record). That way it will be on the manifest which the crew does read. They won't know you have a group of 16 unless you do that. The coach attendent can then save seats together.


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## IowaGirl (Mar 9, 2015)

> If you have 16 people traveling together you need to make sure that is on your PNR (reservation record)


Oh I did. I tried everything to make sure we were seated together or at least some of us together. I was told unless I had a party of 20 there was nothing they could do.

I even called the day before we boarded (someone from AMTRAK had told me to do that. When we boarded the train we were told there was nothing they could do about it... we had to be a party of 20 or more and they didn't save seats. And we needed to find our seats and be quick about it and not wake people up...

But the return trip home was a different story - happy to report. They greeted us at the station and said we have seats ready for your group. It was a night and day difference (literally - lol!)


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