# Empire Builder - Food in Dining Car



## wintersummer (May 28, 2007)

I'd like to know what sort of food to except on the Empire Builder. I've been reading other posts and saw a reference that the autotrain and the EB were "exempt from SDS procedures" and that food that is provided is different from that detailed on Amtrak web site. How is the food different?

I'll be booking a bedroom, so I know meals are included. (but am I right on that one?). Are meal times set? Do you make reservations for your main meals or is it on first come basis?

What if I want an afternoon snack? What if I would like a cup of very early morning coffee? What are my options?

Are there any EB riders out there who could tell me what to expect? Thanks!


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## yarrow (May 28, 2007)

first, depending a little on your attendant, there is most always complimentary coffee available in your sleeping car.

the differences in the food on the eb compared to sds are mostly that you can have grilled food(steaks, pancakes)on the eb. also real dishes and cutlery.

as far as afternoon snacks, i think you will be so full from the regular meals that won't be a problem although there is a wine cheese event in the diner the afternoon the train is in the middle of montana.

breakfast and lunch are first come, first served(at least when we have ridden which is in the off season). dinner is by reservation and the lsa from the diner will come and take your reservation after lunch time.

they announce calls for the meals but your attendant can tell you the times.

we are booked on the eb again this november and can't wait. hope you have a great trip


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## MrFSS (May 28, 2007)

wintersummer said:


> I'd like to know what sort of food to except on the Empire Builder. I've been reading other posts and saw a reference that the autotrain and the EB were "exempt from SDS procedures" and that food that is provided is different from that detailed on Amtrak web site. How is the food different?
> I'll be booking a bedroom, so I know meals are included. (but am I right on that one?). Are meal times set? Do you make reservations for your main meals or is it on first come basis?
> 
> What if I want an afternoon snack? What if I would like a cup of very early morning coffee? What are my options?
> ...


EB food today is as it has been for a number of years and better than what the rest of the LD trains have, though they have gotten better. You won't experience what you would get on a private rail car, but very good. Usually the service is good, too. Have you searched this board under trip reports for EB trips others have taken? That is a good way to learn what is going on.
Yes - meals are included with the bedroom. Breakfast and lunch are usually first come first served. Sometimes they may take lunch reservations. Diner is most always by reservation. One of the food service staff comes through the cars and takes reservations.

During non-meal times, the Sightseer Lounge car has a snack are in the lower level where you can purchase (this area isn't free to sleeper car passengers) a variety of snack items and drinks.

The sleeping car attendant should have coffee made in a large pot near the stairs. I have seen that out and ready by 5:30-6:00 AM. There is also OJ and water in bottles available there most of the day.

Don't know if you have booked, yet, or when your trip is, but the earlier you book the better a price you are likely to obtain. Don't wait too long.

This forum is here to help. Ask away with questions you have, but I do suggest searching the trip reports section for what others have had to say.


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## RailFanLNK (May 28, 2007)

Alot of good tips on rail travel is at on-track-on-line. I learned a gob of stuff with that website as well as this site as well. Also a real good book to get "used" at Amazon or elsewhere is "All Aboard" . I have loaned that book to my girlfriend so I don't know the authors name. Its "Jim" something. That book has alot of useful tidbits in it as well. The more research you do on rail travel the more pleasent experience you will have. Enjoy!


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## D.P. Roberts (May 28, 2007)

rail rookie said:


> Alot of good tips on rail travel is at on-track-on-line. I learned a gob of stuff with that website as well as this site as well. Also a real good book to get "used" at Amazon or elsewhere is "All Aboard" . I have loaned that book to my girlfriend so I don't know the authors name. Its "Jim" something. That book has alot of useful tidbits in it as well. The more research you do on rail travel the more pleasent experience you will have. Enjoy!


The author is Jim Loomis, and the title is All Aboard! The Complete North American Train Travel Guide. It's available used at Barnes & Noble or Amazon.

I just finished it myself, and I'd highly recommend it.


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## sechs (May 30, 2007)

From my experience on the Empire Builder, except for being able to get things made to order and the dishes, there's no major difference with other trains' services.


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## D.P. Roberts (May 30, 2007)

I don't get why Amtrak doesn't post the EB's menu online. They have three SDS menus on the Amtrak site, but no EB. Why go out of your way to have special food on a special menu, and then not tell anyone what it is?


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## wintersummer (May 30, 2007)

What does SDS stand for? I see these words used associated with Amtrak food, and have no idea what they mean. Thanks.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (May 30, 2007)

wintersummer said:


> What does SDS stand for? I see these words used associated with Amtrak food, and have no idea what they mean. Thanks.


SDS means Simplified Dining Service


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## Larry H. (May 30, 2007)

If you read my recent travelog post for May 6th Empire builder I also discuss the trip..

You will find the dinner to be quite busy. Meals were served in about four settings.. Starting at 5pm and 5:30, then 6:30 and 7. That could vary by crew, and maybe they served a bit later than that? The food while reasonably good, was served somewhat rushed as in precooked, (onboard)?, then served quickly, too quickly for me.. But over all in the westward direction the service and food was better than what I had experienced on the train for a while.. However as amtrak can be spotty, the food car returning had several issues including no chef, (with any ability to cook), and no dishwasher, thus plastic plates the whole trip. I must admit they have done an excellent job making the plastic cups and plates to look nearly like china so it wasn't all that bad. The deserts were all quite good and we tried most of them.

As far as snacks go we had at times a chocolate chip cookie in our rooms at bedtime, and during the day one attendant served little bags of snacks that were quite good. On the way up we had coffee in the sleeper on in the morning. On the way back all day.. Depends on the attendant. You could request it, then he would probably make some.

Most surprising was that the pre made meals I had dreaded on the City of New Orleans were actually a step above the Empire Builder where the normal chef was absent. They weren't rushed as the EB and the salad was larger, cooler and service was good. Same deserts as well. Overall a big improvement. I can see now how some say the food isn't all that different..


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## frj1983 (May 30, 2007)

D.P. Roberts said:


> I don't get why Amtrak doesn't post the EB's menu online. They have three SDS menus on the Amtrak site, but no EB. Why go out of your way to have special food on a special menu, and then not tell anyone what it is?


Probably an oversight,

but I do get the feeling sometimes that their website is managed by committee!

(I'll put my piece in and you put yours in....). Either that, or their webmaster does not review the pages often enough.


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## Sam31452 (Apr 24, 2009)

How is EBs food service nowadays?

Does anybody have any recent experiences or even a picture of the menu?

=> I will ride in Coach, so I have to decide for every meal whether to go to the diner or leave it.


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## Shawn (Apr 24, 2009)

I ride the EB and CS alot, and I notice NO difference between the 2. And the EB's menu matches all the other LD trains that don't have a CCC.

So, nothing to get excited about.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

Shawn said:


> I ride the EB and CS alot, and I notice NO difference between the 2. And the EB's menu matches all the other LD trains that don't have a CCC.
> So, nothing to get excited about.


Well they actually rotate menus so yes it does "match" but from what I've heard and noticed the specials will resemble local dishes just like other LD trains attempt to introduce bits of local cuisine. Crab cakes on the Silvers, and the CONO's jambalaya. The CS also has the PPC which helps too...

The EB food always seemed to me to be a bit more fresh tasting and carefully prepared. It is superior to other trains and most certainly the diner-lites which, well... enough said.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 24, 2009)

wintersummer said:


> I'd like to know what sort of food to except on the Empire Builder. I've been reading other posts and saw a reference that the autotrain and the EB were "exempt from SDS procedures" and that food that is provided is different from that detailed on Amtrak web site. How is the food different?
> I'll be booking a bedroom, so I know meals are included. (but am I right on that one?). Are meal times set? Do you make reservations for your main meals or is it on first come basis?
> 
> What if I want an afternoon snack? What if I would like a cup of very early morning coffee? What are my options?
> ...


My experience with dinner on the EB has been quite good. Breakfast and lunch are filling and adequately prepared, but nothing special. As others have said, you can get microwave burgers & pizzas and other snacks in the snack car if you get hungry between meals or miss a scheduled meal. The more I travel in sleepers long distance, the more forethought I have given to what snacks I can carry on board. There is no reason to pay Amtrak retail prices for chips, cookies, muffins, and sodas that you can buy at the grocery store cheaper and pack in your carry on.


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## amtrakwolverine (Apr 24, 2009)

remember the EB is one of only 2 trains that have a real cook on board and cook real food. its not frozen food like you find at a fast food joint.


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## Shawn (Apr 24, 2009)

Seems to me all Amtrak food tastes the same. Never noticed a difference. And yes, occasionally you have some "local specials" but overall...it's the same.



ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Shawn said:
> 
> 
> > I ride the EB and CS alot, and I notice NO difference between the 2. And the EB's menu matches all the other LD trains that don't have a CCC.
> ...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

Shawn said:


> Seems to me all Amtrak food tastes the same. Never noticed a difference. And yes, occasionally you have some "local specials" but overall...it's the same.
> 
> 
> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


Yeah, maybe you're just so used to it that you don't notice the difference or something. Aramark may supply the food but at least its cooked on board. Try and order a steak medium rare on the CL.... you're lucky to get it done to your liking and if it's not you're even luckier if they'll take it back and downright REAL lucky if your new steak isn't exactly the same...


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## Larry H. (Apr 24, 2009)

I thought that last year or so the Empire Builder adapted the same basic food service as the rest of the trains? At least that is what I recall hearing?


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I thought that last year or so the Empire Builder adapted the same basic food service as the rest of the trains? At least that is what I recall hearing?


The menu is largely the same Larry, but the EB still retains the full crew in the dining car, as well as cloth table cloths, real china plates, and so forth. The full crew usually means better service, a few more things cooked fresh and those that are pre-plated tend to get a bit more TLC than they do on other trains.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I thought that last year or so the Empire Builder adapted the same basic food service as the rest of the trains? At least that is what I recall hearing?


No, the EB still does not use SDS. They still have the china, the extra crew in the diner, and food is still 70-80% cooked on board from fresh or raw (or after minimal preparation).


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> remember the EB is one of only 2 trains that have a real cook on board and cook real food. its not frozen food like you find at a fast food joint.


I think that the "real cooks" employeed by Amtrak on it's other trains would beg to differ and would probably even be insulted by that comment. Some of those real cooks are the reason that SDS was modified to allow for steaks, omlettes, and other things to once again return to being cooked fresh on the other trains.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> KISS_ALIVE said:
> 
> 
> > remember the EB is one of only 2 trains that have a real cook on board and cook real food. its not frozen food like you find at a fast food joint.
> ...


The problem lies in the diner being understaffed on other trains doesn't it? These guys would love to prepare "better" or more fresh food but they simply can't gook 60 meals in a few hours without another guy helping out.


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## the_traveler (Apr 24, 2009)

One thing that I do like about the EB is that even though it is the same menu choices, it taste better IMHO because it is mostly cooked on board - and also served on real china (not plastic plates)! And the coffee is served in real (heavy) mugs (not those plastic cups)! And juice is served in real glasses (not plastic "drink cups")!


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > KISS_ALIVE said:
> ...


Precisely.

There might be a few cooks who are happy with the present way of doing things, but I suspect that most are not thrilled with SDS. Perhaps maybe they're a bit more comfortable with the newest menu, which is a huge improvement over the last 2 or 3 years, but still I don't believe for a minute that most are really happy with things.

One has to remember that for years Amtrak went to culinary schools to recruit the chefs on their trains. Only someone who is truly lazy could ever be happy with the idea of taking a dish out of the fridge, sliding it into a convection oven, slapping some veggies and a starch onto the plate, and sending it out to be served. And most of the chefs employeed by Amtrak aren't lazy, because if they were, even with SDS you would be waiting forever to get your food.


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## amtrakwolverine (Apr 24, 2009)

the AT and EB and food prepared on board not microwaved or cooked before being loaded on the train so you need a real cheif to do that. anyone can re-heat food in a microwave. the reason you don't have food prepared on the other trains is cause Amtrak needed to cut the food budget thanks to congress.


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## trainfan (Apr 24, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > I thought that last year or so the Empire Builder adapted the same basic food service as the rest of the trains? At least that is what I recall hearing?
> ...


I rode the E B back in March and on the East bound they were useing SDS , all paper table cloths plates and cups

but I think they still had 2 cooks,

Trainfan


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

trainfan said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Larry H. said:
> ...


Sometimes the dishwasher can break down and they have to use the SDS standard backups.

I know this from a lot of experience with Aramark-- not that they wash dishes, but when a cafeteria breaks down at school or in a cafeteria they always have paper backups standing by.

The latest EB Magazine says they use real china, and they give that to all sleepers (so I am told) when they board. It is effective like the TT, a new issue will be released in a few weeks.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I have friends who went to great culinary schools only to become line cooks at a Dennys or Bob Evans-- they're a depressed lot. They wish they really could make something special, something amazing and yet they're hands are tied by the system.


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> the AT and EB and food prepared on board not microwaved or cooked before being loaded on the train so you need a real cheif to do that. anyone can re-heat food in a microwave. the reason you don't have food prepared on the other trains is cause Amtrak needed to cut the food budget thanks to congress.


The AT is in a world of its own, so no point in comparing that to the rest of the system.

On the EB, if you order chicken, I'm sorry to tell you that you've just ordered a dish that was pre-plated and heated in a convection oven. Order the fish special and it's probably cooked fresh, order the fish on the menu and it's pre-plated and warmed in a convection oven.

And for the record, they don't reheat the food in the dining cars in a microwave, they use convection ovens which are some what different in that they use heated air that is circulated with considerable force to ensure even heating of the food.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> KISS_ALIVE said:
> 
> 
> > the AT and EB and food prepared on board not microwaved or cooked before being loaded on the train so you need a real cheif to do that. anyone can re-heat food in a microwave. the reason you don't have food prepared on the other trains is cause Amtrak needed to cut the food budget thanks to congress.
> ...


I always knew it was like 70% cooked semi-fresh. I heard the steaks are cooked fresh... is that true? Same with the eggs, cooked to order even...

What is NOT cooked to order on the EB? That's 30% there?


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## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I have friends who went to great culinary schools only to become line cooks at a Dennys or Bob Evans-- they're a depressed lot. They wish they really could make something special, something amazing and yet they're hands are tied by the system.


And trust me, that is how many of the chefs in Amtrak's dining cars feel today. Again, I won't deny that there are probably a few who are happy with things as they are right now. But most are not. We've even had one on here who posted about that very fact.

And there was a new story back a few years ago, shortly after SDS was implimented, where a chef was interviewed and he was talking about how he and other's were pushing Amtrak for permission to cook the omlettes fresh, rather than reheating them. They assured Amtrak that doing so wouldn't hurt their ability to deliver the food in a timely matter, or cost more.

Amtrak listened, tried it, and the chefs were proved right. Since that point Amtrak has gradually expanded what is cooked fresh and to order, to the point we're at today. Just how much was Amtrak's doing vs. how much was the chefs' pushing Amtrak to do it, I can't say.

But that doesn't change the fact that many of the cooks really do want to cook and do try their best to provide the best food that they can provide to the passengers. Another example that I've noticed as a French Toast lover, is that some chefs will start the rewarming process in the convection oven, and then toss it onto the grill to finish the process. Makes a big and noticable difference in how the French Toast tastes and its consistancy.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

> But that doesn't change the fact that many of the cooks really do want to cook and do try their best to provide the best food that they can provide to the passengers. Another example that I've noticed as a French Toast lover, is that some chefs will start the rewarming process in the convection oven, and then toss it onto the grill to finish the process. Makes a big and noticable difference in how the French Toast tastes and its consistancy.


I have noticed that too... some of my french toast was like chewing tires... some of it has been proper. Guess it depends who is down in the kitchen.

The CL I have noticed with the different crew rotations, has one GREAT chef and one who is probably in that "satisfied with SDS" group. I know which I am getting by which conductor gets me on board. If its *insert name* then I know to avoid breakfast the next morning, if it is *insert other name* I know its a sure bet!


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## AlanB (Apr 25, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I always knew it was like 70% cooked semi-fresh. I heard the steaks are cooked fresh... is that true? Same with the eggs, cooked to order even...
> What is NOT cooked to order on the EB? That's 30% there?


The steaks are cooked fresh on all trains, except for those using Diner-Lite cars. Same with omelets, but only the EB still cooks eggs to order. Many trains however that do fresh omelets will allow you to order the omelet without the various added ingredients, in effect allowing you to have scrambled eggs.

I'm not sure just what else is not cooked fresh on the EB, but I'm sure that there are things that aren't beyond what I mentioned.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 25, 2009)

AlanB said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I always knew it was like 70% cooked semi-fresh. I heard the steaks are cooked fresh... is that true? Same with the eggs, cooked to order even...
> ...


I know the seafood special _usually_ is... last time I rode they had trout in an attempt to show off the rivers that just washed out their bridges. I love trout and I can tell which is days old and which one was just opened up... these were fresh.


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## sechs (Apr 25, 2009)

I don't care what other people think: A well-prepared "not fresh" meal is always better than a badly prepared "fresh" meal.

If everyone along the line does their job well, the food comes out well, no matter which path it takes.


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