# Amtrak Drug Testing



## Jason (Jan 16, 2015)

Does Amtrak require an observed drug test


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## KmH (Jan 16, 2015)

Amtrak, and other transportation entities, are authorized by the feds to do an observed drug test only after certain conditions are met:

http://www.dot.gov/odapc/dot-direct-observation-procedures


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## Acela150 (Jan 16, 2015)

They will take urine and hair. Hair shows the past 90 days if anything was used.


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## haolerider (Jan 16, 2015)

I for one am glad they have the strict testing! If you are thinking of joining Amtrak and worked about testing,perhaps you should re-think your career choice or your choice of recreation!


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## jnismith (Jan 16, 2015)

I would rather have my engine driven by someone who had smoked pot 30 days ago than someone who had been very drunk 2 days ago


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 16, 2015)

jnismith said:


> I would rather have my engine driven by someone who had smoked pot 30 days ago than someone who had been very drunk 2 days ago


Id rather have an engineer that did neither! Not as a moral issue, but for Safety reasons!

With Pot becoming legal in so many places,( and eventually everywhere except maybe Utah!)the issue of Drug testing will eventually have to be reworked especially for public employees, transportation workers and athletes!


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## neroden (Jan 16, 2015)

What people do when they're on vacation or off duty for 96 hours is really none of the employer's business. There are very few drugs which last THAT long (LSD maybe). But we've still got these crazy 1980s-era testing policies which don't really determine whether someone is fit to work *now*, just whether they were fit to work in the past (when they weren't working, of course). Someone could have a nice clean hair test and go get stinking drunk just before going to work.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2015)

Never trust a bald, clean shaven Amtrak employee?


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## oldtimer (Jan 17, 2015)

Guest said:


> Never trust a bald, clean shaven Amtrak employee?


Trust me, Amtrak will test hair from other places if there is none on the head! :giggle:  :wacko:


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## Acela150 (Jan 17, 2015)

neroden said:


> What people do when they're on vacation or off duty for 96 hours is really none of the employer's business. There are very few drugs which last THAT long (LSD maybe). But we've still got these crazy 1980s-era testing policies which don't really determine whether someone is fit to work *now*, just whether they were fit to work in the past (when they weren't working, of course). Someone could have a nice clean hair test and go get stinking drunk just before going to work.


I can agree with part of this statement.. What someone does while on vacation isn't anyone else's business, to an extent.. Sure a few adult beverages are ok. Any illegal drugs though.. That's where I have an issue.

When I had my Physical and Drug test performed. They took hair and urine from me. And I didn't have 2-3 inches of hair on my head so they took hair from my underarms.

Yeah sure someone could get a random test and then goto work later and be wasted on alcohol. But I can almost guarantee that if anyone who worked for a railroad showed up wasted after downing a 12 pack of Dogfish IPA would be fired on the spot as soon as they showed up to work. It's a major issue!

But just because some drugs don't have a "long lasting effect" doesn't mean it wouldn't show up on a Hair test. If one gets tested 67 days after they used, it will show up on the hair.


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## Bus Nut (Jan 17, 2015)

If Amtrak also has mandatory employment physicals like the trucking industry does, alcoholism will show up in your blood tests. Depends on how much the employer gets all up in your business.

CDL drivers can't take a drink less than 4hrs before reporting for duty. If you get caught ... go ahead and try grieving that ... because you can kiss that job goodbye. Google "reasonable suspicion testing".

In some cases DOT mandates an observed urine test for bus/truck drivers and, yes, I've seen people lose their jobs over this. (It certainly is not required in all circumstances--the regs are quite specific.)

There is such a thing as marijuana impaired driving, but most would question whether someone who smoked on vacation, say, is still impaired two weeks later. The metabolites can show up in urine up to 30 days later. Many drivers have lost their jobs for this since the 1980s.

Ironically, many, many employers allow employees to drive while SICK or FATIGUED*, both of which can make you as impaired as someone who is DUI ALCOHOL**. But observe how much the transportation industry squeals like stuck pigs when the government attempts to restrict hours of service, or when local governments propose mandatory paid sick leave!

Life would be so much simpler if all "human error" collisions were attributable to the demon weed, at least for management. No hard thinking or sacrifice--hire a two-bit drug test outfit and call it a day!

*-we know this from accident reports

**-research that came out recently--look it up! But you might have to sift, lots of fatigue/sleep research coming out these days.


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## FormerOBS (Jan 17, 2015)

Hypothetical question:

Now that marijuana use is legal in many locations, is it possible that a person could test positive

after being in the presence of a user, and inadvertently inhaling some second-hand smoke?

Tom


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## Paulus (Jan 17, 2015)

FormerOBS said:


> Hypothetical question:
> 
> Now that marijuana use is legal in many locations, is it possible that a person could test positive
> 
> ...


No.


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## neroden (Jan 17, 2015)

Bus Nut said:


> There is such a thing as marijuana impaired driving, but most would question whether someone who smoked on vacation, say, is still impaired two weeks later. The metabolites can show up in urine up to 30 days later. Many drivers have lost their jobs for this since the 1980s.


This is the part of the drug testing which I think is... poorly thought out. A "fitness for work" check upon arrival at work would make the most sense.



> Ironically, many, many employers allow employees to drive while SICK or FATIGUED*, both of which can make you as impaired as someone who is DUI ALCOHOL**. But observe how much the transportation industry squeals like stuck pigs when the government attempts to restrict hours of service, or when local governments propose mandatory paid sick leave!


Yeah, that really upsets me. Distracted & fatigued driving is really, really dangerous, and it's not taken seriously.


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## saxman (Jan 17, 2015)

Didn't realize Amtrak would do a test on hair. Even the airlines only do a urine test for pre-employment. After that it's random, along with the FAA mandated 8 hour bottle to throttle rule. Some airlines require longer, such as 10 or 12 hours.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2015)

saxman said:


> Didn't realize Amtrak would do a test on hair. Even the airlines only do a urine test for pre-employment. After that it's random, along with the FAA mandated 8 hour bottle to throttle rule. Some airlines require longer, such as 10 or 12 hours.


Amtrak does not do the hair at random tests for Train and Engine service. Only a breathalyzer test and a urine test (not observed). At the physicals required to maintain certification they do a urine test (not observed).


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## Motorcar (Jan 17, 2015)

Amtrak engine service drug tests; pre-employment, annual at time of physical, random, probable cause, return to work after extended absence, random monthly after Rule G violation bypass.


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## mrhouse (Sep 30, 2016)

I hate to revive an old thread, but does anyone know if Amtrak does hair follicle testing for non union (or non customer facing) jobs? Let's say customer service or sales or office type jobs.

Thanks!


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## ScouseAndy (Sep 30, 2016)

Paulus said:


> FormerOBS said:
> 
> 
> > Hypothetical question:
> ...


Yes - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3080518/Second-hand-smoke-make-FAIL-drug-test-Stronger-strains-marijuana-damaging-non-smokers-claims-study.html


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## PVD (Sep 30, 2016)

The legalization of marijuana for recreational or medicinal use on a state level does not change its status on the federal level where it is still illegal. If you are in a job that is covered by federal requirements, you are bound by them. No one knows what the future will hold, but that's the way it is right now.


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## Acela150 (Sep 30, 2016)

mrhouse said:


> I hate to revive an old thread, but does anyone know if Amtrak does hair follicle testing for non union (or non customer facing) jobs? Let's say customer service or sales or office type jobs.
> 
> Thanks!


No. Office jobs aren't goverend by FRA... I'm sure they'd do a urine test, but T&E, MOW are the jobs that require Hair and Urine. As they are safety sensitve jobs. Answering phones at a call center isn't a safety sensitive job.


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## SarahZ (Sep 30, 2016)

I work in the office/call center of a production plant. As such, they tested my hair, as that is company policy. I also had to have a physical, even though I sit at a desk all day.

So, even if Amtrak's call center and some of the customer service jobs aren't governed by FRA, you might want to check. Drug tests and physicals sometimes have more to do with insurance requirements, such as in the case of my physical, than the type of job you're performing.

If they do a hair test, be sure to let the nurse/technician know if you've taken any prescription drugs recently. Some, such as amoxicillin, can produce a false positive. My nurse asked me to list all medications, even OTC, that I'd taken during the past six months. Additionally, decongestants can cause slightly elevated blood pressure, so if you have to have a physical, lay off the DayQuil for a couple days.


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## PVD (Sep 30, 2016)

Of course, even in organizations that do not do routine drug testing, it may be required to work on specific sites or client contracts. I worked for a company that did not do testing, but certain locations where we did work the customers required various types of background checks and drug testing on the workers assigned before they could work there. A worker that did not wish to be screened for any reason could do that, but could not work at those locations.


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## Hal (Sep 30, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> mrhouse said:
> 
> 
> > I hate to revive an old thread, but does anyone know if Amtrak does hair follicle testing for non union (or non customer facing) jobs? Let's say customer service or sales or office type jobs.
> ...


Yes, but railroad employers can set their own rules that are more stringent than the FRA. Amtrak does drug test job applicants for positions that are not DOT jobs. Not only job applicants......to maintain a drug free workplace. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PVD (Sep 30, 2016)

Pre hire testing is different than post hire. Where not mandated by law/gov't regulation, drug testing of already hired would be a negotiable item in a collective bargaining agreement if one applies.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 30, 2016)

Most workers don't have collecting bargaining rights nor belong to a Union.

They serve as at will employees and under Right to Work Laws basically have to do what the Company dictates.


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## PVD (Sep 30, 2016)

True, but since we were focusing on rail, that's a little less common. As a general rule, American workers have less rights and benefits than most of the industrialized world, they just haven't woken up and figured it out yet.


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## Acela150 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hal said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > mrhouse said:
> ...


Very true.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 30, 2016)

I believe they swab you these days.


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## FormerOBS (Oct 1, 2016)

I believe it's safe to say that Amtrak employees are required to be drug free at all times, no matter where they work and no matter what their job description. Even if FRA doesn't regulate it, Amtrak can and does. You can get hurt in an office, too, and Amtrak isn't interested in having an environment where that can happen. The Company also has an obvious interest in having employees who can focus on doing their jobs properly.

Tom


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## Acela150 (Oct 1, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> I believe they swab you these days.


I may regret asking this. But what kind of swab?


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 1, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe they swab you these days.
> ...


My guess is a mouth swab


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## Ryan (Oct 1, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe they swab you these days.
> ...


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## DevalDragon (Oct 1, 2016)

Hair and swab tests are not sanctioned by the FRA and are an Amtrak preference.

The FRA will only recognize the typical "pee in a cup" test.


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## PVD (Oct 1, 2016)

There are certain circumstances where blood and breath testing is also done.


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## neroden (Oct 2, 2016)

FormerOBS said:


> I believe it's safe to say that Amtrak employees are required to be drug free at all times, no matter where they work and no matter what their job description.


This is of course false since I've watched plenty of Amtrak employees abusing nicotine, using caffeine, and I'm pretty sure they allow employees to use alcohol outside work hours. You probably just mean the arbitrary list of drugs which are currently illegal, though.


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## Acela150 (Oct 2, 2016)

neroden said:


> FormerOBS said:
> 
> 
> > I believe it's safe to say that Amtrak employees are required to be drug free at all times, no matter where they work and no matter what their job description.
> ...


Abusing nicotine. So smoking and or chewing tabacco. Which many railroaders do. Caffeine, who doesn't use caffeine??? Do you drink coffee, soda, tea? The fact that you even brought these up is humorous.


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## FormerOBS (Oct 2, 2016)

neroden said:


> FormerOBS said:
> 
> 
> > I believe it's safe to say that Amtrak employees are required to be drug free at all times, no matter where they work and no matter what their job description.
> ...


I hope your comments are tongue in cheek. To be clear, they are prohibited from using illegal substances, and they are prohibited from working under the influence. This means that I was allowed to have a beer with my meal when I was off duty, on my own time. I could not have that beer just before going on duty. Employees aren't supposed to smoke in the presence of passengers, but nicotine and caffeine are legal. In fact, I'd rather let an all-night employee have access to coffee or tea so they can stay alert. Any disagreement there?

Tom


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 2, 2016)

As usual you make it Crystal Clear Tom!

One thing I wonder about is how do OBS smoke out of the presence of Passengers since Smoking is strictly prohibited on the train and during "Smoke or Fresh Air" stops, the passengers are on the platform?

Ive seen them smoke in the Kitchen and Transdorm downstairs with the window open and before locked Bag Cars they smoked there too!


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## Ryan (Oct 2, 2016)

It's entertaining seeing Nathaniel's point sail over everyone's head.

Nobody is drug free at any time, saying that the requirement is to be "drug free at all times" is a gross oversimplification, and the current divide between legal and illegal drugs is a bit nonsensical and arbitrary.


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## FormerOBS (Oct 2, 2016)

Ryan, you say "The current divide between legal and illegal drugs is a bit nonsensical and arbitrary".

You may disagree with the current laws, and feel that they aren't appropriate when judged according to the real or perceived dangers of specific substances. You have that right. But whatever your position on the issue, the fact is that the laws are specific, and not arbitrary. If it's illegal, it's not permitted. Whether it SHOULD BE illegal is another question, but Amtrak doesn't pass laws. That's the Legislative Branch's job. If it's legal, it's allowed, within certain limits.

Bob Dylan: Smoking out of view of passengers? You should know better than to expect me to reveal all of our secrets, or to rat out my old co workers. I quit smoking a little over 10 years ago, but smoked for several years as an employee. We had our ways, and we did it without getting caught. Now I'm glad I quit, and my new awareness of the offensiveness of the smoke makes me wonder how we were not discovered more often.

"I'm shocked. SHOCKED! There's smoking in this (choose one) kitchen, crew car, rest room, etc."

Tom


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## neroden (Oct 3, 2016)

FormerOBS said:


> To be clear, they are prohibited from using illegal substances, and they are prohibited from working under the influence.
> 
> Tom


I was really just gently poking you to write more carefully. I don't like it when people say "drugs" and mean "illegal drugs". 'Cause it's misleading.
I happen to be violently allergic to cigarette smoke, I hate dealing with drunk people, and a friend of mine knew someone who actually overdosed on caffeine. If I'd been around in the 19th century, I probably would have supported Prohibition. Except, to my terrible disappointment, Prohibition didn't work.


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