# Main Hurricane Discussion Thread



## henryj (Aug 22, 2011)

According to the latest forecasts, Irene will skirt the eastern coast of Florida and make landfall somewhere around Charleston about Friday. When will Amtrak start making announcements about service suspensions?


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## jis (Aug 22, 2011)

henryj said:


> According to the latest forecasts, Irene will skirt the eastern coast of Florida and make landfall somewhere around Charleston about Friday. When will Amtrak start making announcements about service suspensions?


As soon as CSX tells them so I presume. It is not Amtrak's call to make.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 22, 2011)

henryj said:


> According to the latest forecasts, Irene will skirt the eastern coast of Florida and make landfall somewhere around Charleston about Friday. When will Amtrak start making announcements about service suspensions?


When there is less uncertianty about the path Irene takes.

To quote the National Hurricane Center:



> DO NOT TO FOCUS ON THE EXACT FORECAST TRACK...ESPECIALLY AT DAYS 4TO 5...SINCE THE MOST RECENT 5-YEAR AVERAGE ERRORS AT THOSE
> 
> FORECAST TIMES ARE 200 AND 250 MILES...RESPECTIVELY.


So that means it is likely at least a couple of days before anything is decided.


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## me_little_me (Aug 22, 2011)

henryj said:


> According to the latest forecasts, Irene will skirt the eastern coast of Florida and make landfall somewhere around Charleston about Friday. When will Amtrak start making announcements about service suspensions?


Likely when and if there are any suspensions. How many times have you seen hurricane reports that changed by the minute? As a Red Cross volunteer, I was to be sent on one hurricane to Houston, then Florida west coast, then Florida east cost and ended up in Charleston. We were sent home after a day because the hurricane was a bust. Others actually went out to Houston and were moved over and over.

Don't sweat it. Think "I might not only have a train trip but a free ocean cruise thrown in!"


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## jis (Aug 22, 2011)

me_little_me said:


> Don't sweat it. Think "I might not only have a train trip but a free ocean cruise thrown in!"


Last time I had a run in with a hurricane on a planned Amtrak trip, it turned into a plane trip one way. And the darned plane ticket was cheaper than the Amtrak sleeper ticket, so you win some and you lose some. I would have preferred it to remain a train trip, but such was not to be, courtesy CSX. Of course the storm did not quite materialize as CSX had feared. But prudence is probably a good thing under such circumstances.


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## boxcar479 (Aug 22, 2011)

I hope this isn't the beginning of another never ending thread? When will the Silvers ever be reinstated!


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 22, 2011)

jis said:


> But prudence is probably a good thing under such circumstances.


Yeah, the 1935 Labor Day Hurricane comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_Labor_Day_hurricane


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## henryj (Aug 23, 2011)

Airlines are already cancelling flights to Miami. The storm is now 100mph winds and intensifying. Predictions are a cat 3 later this week. Looks like it will scrape the coast all the way from Miami to Charleston. It may go inland there or turn and go out to sea.


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## henryj (Aug 24, 2011)

This storm is really ramping up now. 120mph winds. It has shifted a little east then back west to where it looks like it will make land fall in New York, possibly over Long Island. It could scrape along the NEC all the way from DC to New York and even New England. Unless it starts to shift out to sea you guys are in for a big hit.


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## antmisfit (Aug 24, 2011)

Hi. Newbie Amtrak passenger here. Earlier this month I booked my first trip (from Newark Penn Station, NJ to Miami, FL) for this Sunday. Unfortunately, that will be the day Hurricane Irene whips through NJ. I haven't seen any service alerts concerning Irene(yet), but I've noticed this message when looking at ticket availability:



> *Problem with Availability:* At least one portion of your trip is unavailable. Revise your travel dates and times so we may search for other available options. [Error ID: 578S]


 Both trains that day appear as sold out(Same for Friday and Saturday).
So here's my question: Is it genuinely sold out, possibly due to plane travelers facing imminent cancellations/serious delays and choosing the train as an alternative, or has Amtrak stopped taking reservations for those specific trips out of caution due to the weather?


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## Ryan (Aug 24, 2011)

antmisfit said:


> or has Amtrak stopped taking reservations for those specific trips out of caution due to the weather?


This.

Amtrak will be at the mercy of CSX, since they own the tracks. Crossing gates are usually removed in advance of a storm, as they make excellent missiles when the wind whips. No crossing gates, no trains.

If it's possible, I'd look at delaying your trip until Monday. Don't cancel your existing reservation in case the train runs, though.


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## afigg (Aug 24, 2011)

You should call Amtrak. Odds are that the train will be canceled. Even if CSX tracks are open south of DC, nothing may be heading out of NYC and from Sunnyside Yard in Queens on Sunday. There is stong possibility that a category 2-3 hurricane will sweep up the coast and slam into Long Island on Sunday. A hurricane can cause wind damage with trees down over a huge area which means tracks will be fouled and power out. Possibly for days in some area. Sorry, your timing is not good.


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## antmisfit (Aug 24, 2011)

afigg said:


> You should call Amtrak. Odds are that the train will be canceled. Even if CSX tracks are open south of DC, nothing may be heading out of NYC and from Sunnyside Yard in Queens on Sunday. There is stong possibility that a category 2-3 hurricane will sweep up the coast and slam into Long Island on Sunday. A hurricane can cause wind damage with trees down over a huge area which means tracks will be fouled and power out. Possibly for days in some area. Sorry, your timing is not good.


This is what I'm afraid of. The last two evenings I have called Amtrak, only getting an automated customer service system instead of a live agent, and there was no indication of the trip being cancelled. It's quite frustrating. I'll call again in the morning to possibly reschedule for Monday, but that really cuts into my vacation time.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2011)

antmisfit said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > You should call Amtrak. Odds are that the train will be canceled. Even if CSX tracks are open south of DC, nothing may be heading out of NYC and from Sunnyside Yard in Queens on Sunday. There is stong possibility that a category 2-3 hurricane will sweep up the coast and slam into Long Island on Sunday. A hurricane can cause wind damage with trees down over a huge area which means tracks will be fouled and power out. Possibly for days in some area. Sorry, your timing is not good.
> ...


I suspect that many other people are also doing the same, that is to say picking up the phone to call Amtrak and find out what's going to happen with trains up & down the east coast this weekend. No doubt that is adding to the call volume.

When you do get Julie to answer, just say "agent" to speak with a live person and to see what if any info they have. But be prepared to hold for a while as again I'm sure call volumes will be high tomorrow. If at all possible, call very early in the morning or late in the evening (east coast times that is) to try and avoid some of the volume.


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## antmisfit (Aug 25, 2011)

AlanB said:


> When you do get Julie to answer, just say "agent" to speak with a live person and to see what if any info they have. But be prepared to hold for a while as again I'm sure call volumes will be high tomorrow. If at all possible, call very early in the morning or late in the evening (east coast times that is) to try and avoid some of the volume.


Thanks for the info. Will be doing that early in the morning.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

henryj said:


> This storm is really ramping up now. 120mph winds. It has shifted a little east then back west to where it looks like it will make land fall in New York, possibly over Long Island. It could scrape along the NEC all the way from DC to New York and even New England. Unless it starts to shift out to sea you guys are in for a big hit.


At present predictions are that Jersey Shore and parts of Long Island might see wind speeds upto 85mph. Where I live predictions are 50 to 70mph. NEC in NJ falls mostly in that range. The bigger worry is Storm Surge up through the Varrazano Narrows into New York Harbor. There is some serious prep going on to evacuate ares that would get inundated should a 10+' surge materialize. You can bet that Hoboken station will look like a lake with even much less.

Here are the current projection pictures as of 2am EDT 0600Zulu:

Ensemble path:







Wind speeds:






The eye will be abeam of New York around 80 hours into the chart, but the damaging winds arrive ahead of the eye.

There will be considerable flooding caused just by an additional dump of rain on ground that is essentially completely saturated already.


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## henryj (Aug 25, 2011)

If service is suspended on the NEC does this mean Amtrak will take six years to restore service as in the Sunset east? If Sunyside is affected doesn't this also suspend all trains to Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta as well as the Florida trains? If all those trains are suspended, Amtrak could even turn a profit this year.


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## Amber (Aug 25, 2011)

Leaving from Lorto, Va to Sanford, FL on the Autotrain on Sunday -- I'm wondering about the status of my trip too...any input appreciated.


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## afigg (Aug 25, 2011)

At this point, it is safe to say that Irene will have a considerable impact on Amtrak operations in NC, Virginia, the NEC, the Empire corridor to Albany, and in New England. *If* Irene makes landfall as a hurricane near NYC or western end of Long Island, people should be prepared for NEC operations to be disrupted for days. Since it has been a long time since a hurricane has hit near NYC or New England for that matter, I suspect a lot of people - despite all the warning from officials and serious over-dosage of wall to wall coverage on the Weather Channel and the cable news channels - in the NYC region and southern New England will think the storm will be like a Nor'easter. No, it won't. It will be a Nor'easter times 10 with a storm surge. If Irene hits at hurricane strength, the storm surge, heavy rain, and possible tornadoes being spun off, will do a lot of damage.

I'm wondering what Amtrak plans are in case a hurricane threatens to hit the Queens area and Sunnyside Yard. Would Amtrak move the extra Amfleet and Heritage cars on a dead head equipment move to Philadelphia, Harrisburg, or even Albany? Maybe move some Acelas to Philadelphia? If Sunnyside Yard gets flooded or hit by high winds, they may want to limit the amount of equipment in the path of the storm. This could lead to Amtrak canceling a lot of service on the NEC on Saturday ahead of the storm to move equipment out of the way.

Website for detailed hurricane tracking info for those interested:

National Hurricane Center: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

Weather Underground with maps showing the projected tracks of the different models: http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at201109_model.html

To the Moderator: perhaps we should have one main Irene thread and rename this one "Irene headed to the Northeast".


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## afigg (Aug 25, 2011)

Amber said:


> Leaving from Lorto, Va to Sanford, FL on the Autotrain on Sunday -- I'm wondering about the status of my trip too...any input appreciated.


CSX may be shutting down operations on their tracks in North Carolina and eastern Virginia over the weekend. As posted above, call Amtrak.

Irene will be disrupting travel along the eastern seaboard. I would expect the airlines are also making plans to cancel many, if not all flights out of the airports on a broad sweep from DC to Boston on late Saturday, Sunday and into Monday.


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## antmisfit (Aug 25, 2011)

Amber said:


> Leaving from Lorto, Va to Sanford, FL on the Autotrain on Sunday -- I'm wondering about the status of my trip too...any input appreciated.


Most likely it will be cancelled or seriously delayed. I've noticed now on Amtrak's site that reservations are listed as "sold out" from Friday all the way to Wednesday next week. I've canceled my reservation for Sunday, because it's become quite clear that it's going to get too dangerous on the tracks this weekend to risk going anywhere. I'm quite peeved about it, though. I won't be able to go on vacation again until next year, and I was really looking forward to Miami next week.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

henryj said:


> If service is suspended on the NEC does this mean Amtrak will take six years to restore service as in the Sunset east? If Sunyside is affected doesn't this also suspend all trains to Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta as well as the Florida trains? If all those trains are suspended, Amtrak could even turn a profit this year.


Smoked some strong stuff last night eh? :giggle:


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

So far projections appear to be that Irene will be a borderline hurricane at best by the time it gets to New York, in which case it will really be more like a Noreaster. But it is really too early to tell. We will have a much better projection in another 24 to 36 hours.


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## Tracktwentynine (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm supposed to be going to New York City this weekend. Now, with predictions of coastal and urban flooding, high winds, and power outages, I'm wondering whether I should cancel.

I'm also worried about my return trip (on Monday) from NYP to NCR. If the NEC is severely impacted on Sunday, how big a chance will there be that service has not been restored by Monday afternoon?


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## Amber (Aug 25, 2011)

Autotrain Lorton-Sanford canceled Friday, Saturday and Sunday so far -- just got off the phone with Amtrak.


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## Ryan (Aug 25, 2011)

I wouldn't cancel any plans just yet, but if Irene continues on her present track I would plan on not going. The models this morning bring her track more west, which is just bad news all the way around.

I have a vacation planned for Duck, NC (northern outer banks) for the week of 4-11 Sep and I'm already looking at contingency plans.


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## Ryan (Aug 25, 2011)

The 11:00 update shifts the track a little further west. Bad for everyone all the way up the east coast.


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## Shanghai (Aug 25, 2011)

jis said:


> So far projections appear to be that Irene will be a borderline hurricane at best by the time it gets to New York, in which case it will really be more like a Noreaster. But it is really too early to tell. We will have a much better projection in another 24 to 36 hours.



I hope Irene stays to the East!! I'm about 3 miles West of Jis, so he will get the storm seconds before

it reaches my house!! I am about 250 feet above sea level on a hill, so I don't expect any flood damage.

The wind is another story. My wife has moved her flowers from the patio into the laundry room and the

cars are in the garage. We are having thunderstorms right now. Irene is due to hit here early on Sunday

morning.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I hope Irene stays to the East!! I'm about 3 miles West of Jis, so he will get the storm seconds before
> 
> it reaches my house!! I am about 250 feet above sea level on a hill, so I don't expect any flood damage.
> 
> The wind is another story.


Yeah, I am also high on a hill in Short Hills, just by the NJT Morris and Essex Line, so no worries about floods. Bigger worry is about trees toppling over in the forests surrounding this area. Yes, car will be in garage by the time storm arrives. But there is a trip to Albany to take care of before that to say hello to the Amtrak 40th Anniversary train again, and of course for any chance meetings with folks from this Board that show up there.


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## pennyk (Aug 25, 2011)

Here in Florida, we had rain this morning. They are predicting beach erosion and rip currents on the coast. Florida is much more used to hurricanes than the northeast. I feel very bad for the folks who will be experiencing an earthquake and hurricane within the same week. 

Some hurricane tips: make sure your car has a full tank of gas before the storm because gas stations might lose power; do not wait until the last minute to buy batteries, bottled water, toilet paper, etc. because stores run out. Bring inside all lawn furniture or other things that might get blown away and cause damage during high winds. (My guess is that all you northeasterns know this since you get snow storms in the winter).

Take care and be safe.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 25, 2011)

:hi: I second what Penny said! Hope all our Yankee (and Sawk Nation too!) brothers and sisters and their pets come out OK from this nasty storm! Just don't expect to ride Trains this weekend or possibly even early next week! 

Defintion of a Yankee: Anyone who lives North of you! :lol:


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

The last time I had a hurricane related cancellation 98 was cancelled one hour before departure from NYP. I was at NYP when the cancellation was announced. I got on the phone and booked me a flight on Continental out of Newark departing that afternoon, and made it to Florida by the time 98 would have made it to Richmond. Naturally the cancellation happened many many hours before there was even a whiff of the storm in the new York area. Amtrak of course refunded the fare for the trip on 98. I retained my return reservation and ticket on 91 couple of days later, and came back by 91, which is the one that first destroyed a car in Winter Park and then sat in JAX for 7 hours while DHS and local police dicked around looking for a non-existent bomb.


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## MrFSS (Aug 25, 2011)

I have renamed this topic (kept the original topic title in the second line) so we can have *ALL* Hurricane Irene discussion in one place.

Please use this thread for all discussion and new information.


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## Tracktwentynine (Aug 25, 2011)

Am on the phone (hold) with Amtrak right now to cancel my NCR-NYP roundtrip for Friday departure, Monday return. My hotel made an exception to their no refunds policy.

Even if the storm isn't as bad as predicted, who wants to be vacationing in New York in this weather? Also, I was worried I'd get stuck at NYP on Monday.

It sucks, since this was my redemption of the free roundtrip I earned in their Spring Ahead promotion (buy 2 get one free). Better safe than sorry, though.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

So LD trains south of Washington DC appear to be indeed canceled from Friday to Sunday.

The following cancellations have been made for origination dates of Friday, Aug. 26, Saturday, Aug. 27 and Sunday, Aug. 28:

• Auto Train Trains 52 and 53 (Sanford, Fla. - Lorton, Va.)

• Silver Star Trains 91 and 92 (New York -Tampa - Miami), canceled New York to Jacksonville; train will operate between Jacksonville and Miami

• Silver Meteor Trains 97 and 98 (New York - Miami)

• Palmetto Train 89 (New York - Savannah)

The following cancellations have been made for origination dates of Saturday, Aug. 27 and Sunday, Aug. 28:

• Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 (New York - Cary, N.C.)

• Palmetto Train 90 (New York - Savannah)


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## Ryan (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks, Tom. This makes things MUCH easier to stay on top of.

Edit:

Just came across this great article that lays out the current situation, possible impacts and comparisons to other storm events that the NE has gone through. Of note:



> Irene's storm surge may flood New York City's subway systemThe floodwalls protecting Manhattan are only five feet above mean sea level. During the December 12, 1992 Nor'easter, powerful winds from the 990 mb storm drove an 8-foot storm surge into the Battery Park on the south end of Manhattan. The ocean poured over the city's seawall for several hours, flooding the NYC subway and the Port Authority Trans-Hudson Corporation (PATH) train systems in Hoboken New Jersey. FDR Drive in lower Manhattan was flooded with 4 feet of water, which stranded more than 50 cars and required scuba divers to rescue some of the drivers. Mass transit between New Jersey and New York was down for ten days, and the storm did hundreds of millions in damage to the city. Tropical Storm Floyd of 1999 generated a storm surge just over 3 feet at the Battery, but the surge came at low tide, and did not flood Manhattan. The highest water level recorded at the Battery in the past century came in September 1960 during Hurricane Donna, which brought a storm surge of 8.36 feet to the Battery and flooded lower Manhattan to West and Cortland Streets. However, the highest storm surge on record in New York City occurred during the September 3, 1821 hurricane, the only hurricane ever to make a direct hit on the city. The water rose 13 feet in just one hour at the Battery, and flooded lower Manhattan as far north as Canal Street, an area that now has the nation's financial center. The total surge is unknown from this greatest New York City hurricane, which was probably a Category 2 storm with 110 mph winds. NOAA's SLOSH model predicts that a mid-strength Category 2 hurricane with 100-mph winds could drive a 15 - 20 foot storm surge to Manhattan, Queens, Kings, and up the Hudson River. JFK airport could be swamped, southern Manhattan would flood north to Canal Street, and a surge traveling westwards down Long Island Sound might breach the sea walls that protect La Guardia Airport. Many of the power plants that supply the city with electricity might be knocked out, or their docks to supply them with fuel destroyed. The more likely case of a Category 1 hurricane hitting at high tide would still be plenty dangerous, with waters reaching 8 - 12 feet above ground level in Lower Manhattan. Given the spread in the models, I predict a 20% chance that New York City will experience a storm surge in excess of 8 feet that will over-top the flood walls in Manhattan and flood the subway system. This would most likely occur near 8 pm Sunday night, when high tide will occur and Irene should be near its point of closest approach. Such a storm surge could occur even if Irene weakens to a tropical storm on its closest approach to New York City.


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## GaSteve (Aug 25, 2011)

OK, I thought that, since it was directly from Amtrak, was new info, and involved a lot more that Charleston, it deserved a new topic. But, here it is again:

AMTRAK PREPARES FOR HURRICANE IRENE

by Amtrak on Thursday, August 25, 2011 at 11:32am

Trains operating south of Washington canceled in anticipation of hurricane

As Hurricane Irene continues to progress, Amtrak is canceling train service for Friday, Saturday and Sunday operating south of Washington. Additional cancellations may be necessary in the coming days as the major storm moves north. Currently, service on the Northeast Corridor is not affected.

The following cancellations have been made for origination dates of Friday, Aug. 26, Saturday, Aug. 27 and Sunday, Aug. 28:

Auto Train Trains 52 and 53 (Sanford, Fla. - Lorton, Va.)

Silver Star Trains 91 and 92 (New York -Tampa - Miami), canceled New York to Jacksonville; train will operate between Jacksonville and Miami

Silver Meteor Trains 97 and 98 (New York - Miami)

Palmetto Train 89 (New York - Savannah)

The following cancellations have been made for origination dates of Saturday, Aug. 27 and Sunday, Aug. 28:

Carolinian Trains 79 and 80 (New York - Cary, N.C.)

Palmetto Train 90 (New York - Savannah)

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## Tracktwentynine (Aug 25, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Thanks, Tom. This makes things MUCH easier to stay on top of.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ryan. Now I feel even more confident that I made the right decision about canceling my trip to NYC. Although it will postpone my passing 15,000 lifetime miles on Amtrak (I'm only 11 miles short!).


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

Now can we also merge the "Irene headed for Charleston" thread with this one and have truly a single Irene thread? Or at least close that one down for further additions and point it to this one? Please, pretty please?


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## MrFSS (Aug 25, 2011)

jis said:


> Now can we also merge the "Irene headed for Charleston" thread with this one and have truly a single Irene thread? Or at least close that one down for further additions and point it to this one? Please, pretty please?



Already done, Jis - I had it done before you wrote.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

MrFSS said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Now can we also merge the "Irene headed for Charleston" thread with this one and have truly a single Irene thread? Or at least close that one down for further additions and point it to this one? Please, pretty please?
> ...


Thank you kind Sir!


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## amamba (Aug 25, 2011)

Yikes. I don't even have any place inside to put my patio furniture - I just put a cover on it in the winter.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

amamba said:


> Yikes. I don't even have any place inside to put my patio furniture - I just put a cover on it in the winter.


Fortunately, if it shifts any further west, it will be traveling up over land and will weken way more than if it tracked up over water. So let's see what happens in the next 24 hours.


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## AlanB (Aug 25, 2011)

afigg said:


> I'm wondering what Amtrak plans are in case a hurricane threatens to hit the Queens area and Sunnyside Yard. Would Amtrak move the extra Amfleet and Heritage cars on a dead head equipment move to Philadelphia, Harrisburg, or even Albany? Maybe move some Acelas to Philadelphia? If Sunnyside Yard gets flooded or hit by high winds, they may want to limit the amount of equipment in the path of the storm. This could lead to Amtrak canceling a lot of service on the NEC on Saturday ahead of the storm to move equipment out of the way.


I'm sure that Amtrak is monitoring the situation carefully and probably will try to draw down the level of equipment at least a bit in Sunnyside no matter what happens. It should be noted that except on Weekends, Acela's almost never sit in Sunnyside. They'll run through, maybe stop for a cleaning, but it very unusual to see Acela's sitting in the yard on a weekday. On a weekend, depending on the time of day you might see 1 or 2 Acela sets in the yard and I'll bet that they'll deadhead at least one out, if not all, once the Saturday runs are completed to Philly.

As for the yard itself, the western approaches and therefore the tunnels under the East River are vulnerable to flooding due to storm surge from a direct hit from a Category 2 or stronger storm. It will take a direct hit from a Cat 3 or higher storm for the surge to take out the actual yard. This is not to suggest that getting a foot of rain in 24 hours couldn't cause problems in its own right within the yard. Although it is possible that the currently under construction East Side Access tunnels might actually & accidentally help to drain away some of that water. Good for the yard, not so good for the tunnel project.


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## Train2104 (Aug 25, 2011)

The MTA has said that they're ready to shut down the system if necessary.


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## tp49 (Aug 25, 2011)

My parents live on the South Shore of Long Island and they're saying that there is talk of mandatory evacuations happening on the coast. They haven't had a glance from a hurricane since Bob back in '91 (which of course I was at boy scout camp in Rhode Island for) and Gloria back in '85 which I remember. Even though the impact will probably be similar to a bad nor'easter still not anything fun to deal with. I'm sure the LIRR will shut down at least on the Babylon branch at some point.


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## Linda T (Aug 25, 2011)

Anyone know about the Cardinal? Can it run out of CHI to anywhere in VA (like CVS)? I'm sitting in Richmond thinking I can get to CVS, if it can go between CHI and CVS. I've been sitting on the phone on hold with Amtrak. Figured you guys could tell me faster. 

BTW, Richmond is not even on the tropical storm watch, at this time.


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## jis (Aug 25, 2011)

It is now being reported that LIRR wil shut down operations at 1pm on Saturday to start preparing for the storm. They will have to take down all crossing gates and move trains to safe locations. Sounds like they will move everything to Hillside and Ronkonkoma, and away from South Shore.


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## abcnews (Aug 25, 2011)

The storm is really looking bad. May be turning inland -more than they expected.


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## George B (Aug 25, 2011)

jis said:


> So far projections appear to be that Irene will be a borderline hurricane at best by the time it gets to New York, in which case it will really be more like a Noreaster.


Although similar in most ways, hurricanes pose a much greater storm surge threat than a Nor’easter. That is the main concern right now with the large-population centers near the coast. It takes a long time for that wave and surface water energy to dissipate, even if the hurricane sees a drastic reduction in wind speed. Also, the storm’s forward speed will accelerate as it moves north, which has to be added back to the overall energy of the storm.


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## GG-1 (Aug 25, 2011)

Aloha

It looks to me that Irene may be at Penni's back door about now I hope she and our other Amtrak Friends are safe!


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## henryj (Aug 25, 2011)

This for everyone in the path. Here are some tips that you may or may not nave thought of. When hurricane Rita hit the Houston area in 2005 it didn't bother me as I am in Katy and thought I was inland far enough to not be affected. However this was right after the Katrina disaster. I had to go into Houston that evening for a family friends 90th bd. On the way in there was just a sea of cars exiting Houston. So when I returned later that evening I hopped off the freeway early and took back roads to my house. On the way I just decided to take a look at the freeway a couple of blocks away. It was a parking lot and those cars were there for two nights.

The panic was so complete that of the twenty or so houses on my street only three of us were still there to ride it out. The hurricane turned east of Houston so we hardly got any rain out of it. Yet all the stores were closed, all the eating places, even fast food, were closed. Every gas station was closed. So if you didn't have any food or water in the house or a full gas tank you could have starved anyway. 100's of miles from Houston people were getting into fights over gas as they tried to fill up. People ran out of gas just parked on the freeways. It was a nightmare and the storm did not even impact us. I needed some dog food. I had anticipated the mess and gone to the store earlier. But I forgot the dogs. So when I went back a day later it was too late. People were streaming out of the store with two and three carts of food and water. They were buying gallons of water by the case. It was a screaming mess. In case the power goes out I use kerosene lamps rather than candles as it's safer. I always keep a gallon of kerosene in the house as well as a few gallons of water.

So after that fiasco, when hurricane Ike come ashore a few years later, no one left and dozens died on the Bolivar pennisular which has no seawall. Galveston was devasted. My back yard was a mess with limbs and leaves everywhere. The pool was so full of debris it took me two days to clean it out. Katy is probably 80 miles from the Gulf, yet the wind tore through here at over 70mph. I was lucky as the power was only out for about 8 hours. My brother who lives in Houston had no power for two weeks.

The morale of the story is be prepared. The storm may fizzle out or it may be a monster. You just can't tell. Hope everyone comes through it ok.


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## pennyk (Aug 25, 2011)

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> 
> I looks to me that Irene may be at Penni's back door about now I hope she and our other Amtrak Friends are safe!


Irene is pretty far off shore and I am 50 miles inland. We have had feeder bands of rain, but not much wind. We are much better off in Florida than everyone in the mid Atlantic, northeast and New England.


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## jis (Aug 26, 2011)

NJTransit t&e folks are saying in the rr.net board that they have been given instructions and letters on how to inform local authorities that they are authorized to travel to work locations under emergency directives, and have been given official letters to certify such. Emergency has already been declared in New Jersey, New York and Connecticut, mobilizing the National Guard and setting in place procedures for evacuations. New York City is evacuating several hospitals in low lying areas already.

NJTransit is planning to park loaded hopper car trains on all bridges close to the shore to stabilize them should a storm surge hit them. This means that it is pretty much guaranteed that service will be discontinued on NJCL starting sometime late Saturday. And of course there will be the usual removal of crossing gates making service impossible anyway. But so far no specific advisories from NJT yet.

Folks in Hoboken are being advised to evacuate. See this article to get a feel for how much of Hoboken may be under water. This would mean of course that most of Hoboken Division of NJT will be out.

Hurricane Warning is now in place along the entire length of NJ. Hurricane Watch is in effect covering New York City, all of Long Island and surrounding islands, and the Long Island Sound shore of Connecticut. It is projected that half a million or more people may land up with no power and it could take 3 to 6 days to fix.

Now they are saying that the eye will hit land somewhere in the Cape May - Atlantic City area and possibly at strength 2. An evacuation has been ordered starting this afternoon along Jersey Shore all the way from Cape May to Sandy Hook. This could involve over a million people. Toll booths are being taken off line on the Garden State Parkway to facilitate the evacuation. The eye will, according to current projection, eventually pass almost directly over Manhattan. This is serious folks!

It seems very likely that NEC will be shut down a significant part of Sunday and there is an outside chance that it may be down even a bit of late Saturday.


----------



## afigg (Aug 26, 2011)

jis said:


> It seems very likely that NEC will be shut down at least for a period on Saturday.


Depending on the path, I would suspect the NEC will be shut down for the whole day on Sunday or in split halves. First, WAS to NYP, then NYP to BOS. With people canceling travel plans, even if Amtrak were to operate on Sunday, they may only need a few trains to handle the passenger traffic.

Reading posts on the railroad forums and elsewhere, my take away is a lot of people in Northeast - or those north, say of MD, do not understand what a Category 2 or 3 hurricane means. Hurricanes hitting at hurricane levels that far north is an infrequent event and those who have not been through a hurricane do not understand just how widespread the damage from downed trees, flooding, and some tornadoes getting spun off can be. The coastal and further inland regions from NC to Long Island are likely to get clobbered.


----------



## GaSteve (Aug 26, 2011)

George B said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > So far projections appear to be that Irene will be a borderline hurricane at best by the time it gets to New York, in which case it will really be more like a Noreaster.
> ...


Another point is that, unlike most Nor'easters, the leaves are on the trees and therefore the trees will probably be subject to more wind damage, likely producing more downed trees on power lines and structures.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 26, 2011)

Agreed on all counts. In addition, the ground is already well saturated, and the high tides are the highest with the new moon this weekend. Also worth noting is that unlike the sandy soil with plants that are more suitable to life in the tropics (bend, don't break), the flora of the NE hasn't evolved to deal with these kinds of winds. This storm has the capability to do far more damage as it comes ashore in the NE than it would if it were to come ashore in the tropics.


----------



## jis (Aug 26, 2011)

afigg said:


> Reading posts on the railroad forums and elsewhere, my take away is a lot of people in Northeast - or those north, say of MD, do not understand what a Category 2 or 3 hurricane means. Hurricanes hitting at hurricane levels that far north is an infrequent event and those who have not been through a hurricane do not understand just how widespread the damage from downed trees, flooding, and some tornadoes getting spun off can be. The coastal and further inland regions from NC to Long Island are likely to get clobbered.


We who have lived through Gloria remember, and that was a smaller and faster mover. Thus one is a lumbering behemoth moving along relatively slowly with 12+ inches of rain forecast. The surge height also depends as much on the size of the circulation area (which is huge for this one) as the strength of the eye. Unless something really unpredictably good happens, a lot of people are in for a shock.


----------



## GaSteve (Aug 26, 2011)

jis said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > Reading posts on the railroad forums and elsewhere, my take away is a lot of people in Northeast - or those north, say of MD, do not understand what a Category 2 or 3 hurricane means. Hurricanes hitting at hurricane levels that far north is an infrequent event and those who have not been through a hurricane do not understand just how widespread the damage from downed trees, flooding, and some tornadoes getting spun off can be. The coastal and further inland regions from NC to Long Island are likely to get clobbered.
> ...


Anyone who doubts what a hurricane can do needs to get out their archive and go back to Katrina.


----------



## Anderson (Aug 26, 2011)

GaSteve said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > afigg said:
> ...


Well, there are hurricanes and there are hurricanes. Katrina was a Category 5 monster (yes, I know it weakened a bit at landfall), while it seems that this is going to be coming in at Category 1 or 2, depending on where you are. Mind you, the surge is likely to be a bit worse because of the size of the storm...so file it as a category 2-3, maybe low-end 4 storm surge in places. It's going to be hell on the coast, but it's likely to be less of a wind event.

Other than storm surge, though, the big story is likely to be flooding from all the rain...I've seen a chart suggesting up to a foot in parts of NC, and over 6 inches in most places along the storm's track up to CT...on top of a very wet August so far. So definitely do expect all sorts of flooding to accompany this storm.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2011)

The storm surge will be the worst on Long Island, CT, RI and Cape Cod - there is no place for waves to go further north, due to the geography and the land turning east. But at an elevation of 67 feet (per GPS), I shouldn't be affected by the storm surge. Wind and rain - that's another story!


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## jis (Aug 26, 2011)

Governor Christie just announced that all NJTransit rail service will be suspended starting noon Saturday until further notice.


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## GaSteve (Aug 26, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> The storm surge will be the worst on Long Island, CT, RI and Cape Cod - there is no place for waves to go further north, due to the geography and the land turning east. But at an elevation of 67 feet (per GPS), I shouldn't be affected by the storm surge. Wind and rain - that's another story!


I saw earlier that there was discussion of surge washing up the East River and possible flooding of LaGuardia.


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## jis (Aug 26, 2011)

GaSteve said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > The storm surge will be the worst on Long Island, CT, RI and Cape Cod - there is no place for waves to go further north, due to the geography and the land turning east. But at an elevation of 67 feet (per GPS), I shouldn't be affected by the storm surge. Wind and rain - that's another story!
> ...


The entire area occupied by Newark Airport is also within the surge flood zone for a category 1 and 2 hurricane.


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## NY Penn (Aug 26, 2011)

IIRC JFK might suffer flooding too (the runways at least).


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 26, 2011)

I saw a report that if the storm surge happens at high tide, there will be several feet of water on many of the streets in lower Manhattan. Though, that I assume was a worse case scenario. 

"_Water would be pushed into lower Manhattan, steadily rising. Seawater would pour through the Holland and Brooklyn Battery tunnels._

_ _

_JFK airport would go under an astounding 20 feet of water. The famous Fulton Ferry boat landing in Brooklyn, a popular spot for young couples to take wedding pictures, could also end up under water. Wall Street could find itself in deep water - about 7 feet. The subway system could also be knocked out._" :help:


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## NY Penn (Aug 26, 2011)

Yes, that's actually a possibility, as high tide was supposed to happen at the same time as the hurricane.





I'm also guessing that because of the hurricane, guest posting will be a bit slower, as AlanB and the_traveler might both be subject to power outages.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2011)

the_traveler is probably using this opportunity to jump on a westbound train right this minute...any excuse to take the train. :giggle:


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## GG-1 (Aug 26, 2011)

NY Penn said:


> I'm also guessing that because of the hurricane, guest posting will be a bit slower, as AlanB and the_traveler might both be subject to power outages.


Aloha

Anthony is also in Irene's path. Tom and I are in different zones. Let's hope that there are no difficulties for them.


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## the_traveler (Aug 26, 2011)

Not this time! I have a broken ankle in a cast and will ride it out at home.





And it's not just Alan and myself who will be affected. PRR60 is in NJ and Anthony is in WIL. They also will be in the midst of Irene!


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 26, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Not this time! I have a broken ankle in a cast and will ride it out at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about the ankle :angry: Personally I was hoping you were going to hop on the penthouse suite and pick up those of us to the south that are in harm's way!


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## NY Penn (Aug 26, 2011)

BREAKING NEWS!

NY Mayor Bloomberg orders a MANDATORY EVACUATION for 'Zone A' residents!


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## GG-1 (Aug 26, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Not this time! I have a broken ankle in a cast and will ride it out at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, I forgot PRR60 is also a target in Jersey.

Aloha


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## Train2104 (Aug 26, 2011)

Apparently:


NYC Subway, New Jersey Transit, LIRR, Metro-North will SHUT DOWN at noon tomorrow.
Amtrak will SHUT DOWN and DE-ENERGIZE the Northeast Corridor and Keystone at 5 PM tomorrow.
SEPTA will close lines that operate on Amtrak when catenary is de-energized, the rest of the system will SHUT DOWN at 12:30 AM Sunday.


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## afigg (Aug 26, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> Apparently:
> 
> 
> NYC Subway, New Jersey Transit, LIRR, Metro-North will SHUT DOWN at noon tomorrow.
> ...


Checked the MTA website, the NYC Subway will BEGIN to shut down at noon on Saturday. "The MTA will begin an incremental suspension of its subway, bus, and Long Island Rail Road, and Metro-North Railroad service beginning approximately eight hours prior to sustained 39 mph winds reaching the area. Subway and bus lines will begin shutting down after 12 noon tomorrow." Presumably means the last trains will start their run by noon so everyone better get home.

Total transit shutdown across the NYC metro region and for the entire NEC. Not something you see happen very often.

Unfortunately with the NEC shut down, Amtrak won't be able to take advantage of it and do catenary replacement and track repair. On the other hand, they may end up having to replace some of the catenary afterwards. The stimulus funded work that was done over the past several years to clear the NEC right of way of nearby trees may pay some dividends with fewer trees and branches taking out the catenary or fouling the tracks than there would have been the case 2 years ago.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2011)

"The Executive Order includes the *MANDATORY *evacuation of the southeast section of Wilmington beginning at 6 p.m. Saturday." This includes the WIL station.

Article


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## Anderson (Aug 26, 2011)

*blinks*

So if I'm reading this right, a bad scenario could temporarily (as in, beyond the storm itself) knock out all three NYC airports? Has that happened in the last few decades? How long might that shutdown last?

Also, assuming the subway gets flooded, how long would it take to get the Hudson tunnels working again?


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## Ryan (Aug 26, 2011)

Depends on how much water they fill with.


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## Anderson (Aug 26, 2011)

Another thought (since I'm having login issues), but if some of the lines have to remain out for a day or two next week (after the storm passes), could Amtrak scramble some additional work in while the line is shut down?


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## jis (Aug 26, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Another thought (since I'm having login issues), but if some of the lines have to remain out for a day or two next week (after the storm passes), could Amtrak scramble some additional work in while the line is shut down?


I sus[ect the maintenance folks will all be busy getting the system back up, to be able to spare any time doing anything else.AFAIK no work other than recovery is planned at the present time. All other scheduled work has been canceled for the time being.


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## George Harris (Aug 26, 2011)

jis said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Another thought (since I'm having login issues), but if some of the lines have to remain out for a day or two next week (after the storm passes), could Amtrak scramble some additional work in while the line is shut down?
> ...


Exactly as Jis is saying. Based on what happened in the past with any of the hurricanes that hit the south. How do you think CSX got their line east out of New Orleans back in service as fast as they did? Every maintenance guy adn piece of equipment they could spare was down there. Track material intended for other locations went down there. For a specific: The company that had done the precast segments for the bridge superstructure for the concrete trestle at Bay St. Louis was called upon to pull out the plans for the original set and start casting new ones as quick as he could. Improvements planned for elsewhere just had to wait.


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## HotlantaAl (Aug 26, 2011)

The Crescent now has been cancelled this weekend and early next week. So now I have to fly Delta to get to New Orleans. Delta put me in a center seat for the trip down, grrrrrrr.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2011)

NY Penn said:


> BREAKING NEWS!
> 
> NY Mayor Bloomberg orders a MANDATORY EVACUATION for 'Zone A' residents!


This was expected. Really more a formality, than a surprise. The only way it wasn't coming is if Irene had gone east of the twin forks on LI.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2011)

afigg said:


> Total transit shutdown across the NYC metro region and for the entire NEC. Not something you see happen very often.


It's not something that anyone has ever seen happen before.

This is the first time in the NYC Subway's entire 107 year history that the entire system has been deliberately shut down. It has never happened before.

Yes, there have been a few total shutdowns forced on the subway, thanks to power blackouts. But again, never has there been a deliberate & planned shutdown of the entire system.


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## guest (Aug 27, 2011)

AlanB said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > Total transit shutdown across the NYC metro region and for the entire NEC. Not something you see happen very often.
> ...


I'm sure everyone who looks at this forum wishes you and everyone in the path of Irene to be safe and free from harm during a rough weekend.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2011)

Anderson said:


> *blinks*
> 
> So if I'm reading this right, a bad scenario could temporarily (as in, beyond the storm itself) knock out all three NYC airports? Has that happened in the last few decades? How long might that shutdown last?


All 3 airports are scheduled to shut down at Noon on Saturday. How long they'll be out of service is anyones guess.



Anderson said:


> Also, assuming the subway gets flooded, how long would it take to get the Hudson tunnels working again?


Flooding in the subway tunnels would have no impact on Amtrak's North River tunnels (aka Hudson). They aren't connected in any way.

And the flooding would have to be extraordinarilly bad to engulf the North River tunnels.

Of greater worry would be potential flooding in Queens at Hunters Point where the East River tunnels to Penn start. They are in the zone 2 area, which was not ordered to be evacuated as flooding is not expected to be that severe. But if they've miscalculated things, then access to Boston & Sunnyside Yard would be cutoff until they were pumped clear and wiring & signals replaced. This would also cut off the LIRR totally.

Amtrak & NJT could probably operate some limited service into Penn from the west, but it would hurt!

As for the subways, if the flooding is bad enough at the southern tip of Manhattan, it could be a very rough week here in NY while crews work to dry things and replace signals & wires. It would be almost as bad as the weeks after 9/11 in terms of subway service, with Brooklyn largely cutoff from Manhattan.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2011)

guest said:


> I'm sure everyone who looks at this forum wishes you and everyone in the path of Irene to be safe and free from harm during a rough weekend.


Thanks! 

My biggest worry should be power. Hopefully it will hold up.


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## oldtimer (Aug 27, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Not this time! I have a broken ankle in a cast and will ride it out at home.
> ...



You have it all wrong, the traveler is going out for dinner at the IHOP!!

hboy: :help: :giggle:

All kidding aside, let's hope and pray that the loss of life and of injuries from this disaster is minimized by the advanced warning that we have been given. I hope that all of our members and their families ride out the storm safely.


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## Shanghai (Aug 27, 2011)

AlanB said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure everyone who looks at this forum wishes you and everyone in the path of Irene to be safe and free from harm during a rough weekend.
> ...


Same for me. I fully expect a power loss, but the spoiled foods can be replaced.

I feel for the people who live in flood prone areas. If they are flooded, it will

be the third time this year that they have been flooded.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 27, 2011)

oldtimer2 said:


> All kidding aside, let's hope and pray that the loss of life and of injuries from this disaster is minimized by the advanced warning that we have been given. I hope that all of our members and their families ride out the storm safely.


Amen to that Brother!

I've got most of my preparations done, with a few left to do. My two biggest concerns are loss of power and the trees around - and over - my house. The very latest forecast here has reduced top wind speeds a tad. I'm hoping that is a sign that the storm is tracking a bit more east than the forecasts last night.

DC's Metro still has no plans to shut down, but they've stopped service on elevated portions during past high wind events, and had flooding recently due to heavy rains, so we'll see what happens.


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## John (Aug 27, 2011)

LSL was cancelled today and tomorrow. Amtrak informed me they are running from CHI to TOL and no further during this time. Monday train from CHI to NYP is sold out.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > guest said:
> ...


I was astounded yesterday at the Supermarket to see people loading up on Ice Cream. Yes Ice Cream, in preparation for a storm. I hope they have large ice boxes at home to keepthem frozen when the power inevitably goes out.

One of the bigger problems in NJ is going to be trees that topple over. The ground is already saturated with water weakening the tree's hold on the ground. Even perfectly healthy trees have been toppling over. And we are expected to get upto 10" of rain on top of this saturated ground with wind blowing at least a tropical storm force and possibly higher, sustained for upto 12 hours. Not a good mix even if you are far far away from flood zones. And guess where trees toppleover fall? On houses and power lines and roads.....

List of NJTransit Last Trains today.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Most upto date Amtrak NEC plan:

CANCELLATIONS:

Acela Express: 2253(27) cancelled *ENTIRELY*; 2250 cancelled NYP-BOS

Regional Svc:

135(27)-57(27)-165(27) cancelled *ENTIRETY*

159(27)-167(27)-169(27)-67(27)-192(27)-158(27)-182(27)-66(27) cancelled in entirety

163(27) cancelled *BOS-NYP* and *PHL-WAS*

99(27)-161(27) cancelled BOS-NYP

67(26) and 99(27) cancelled WAS-NPN

194(27) cancelled NPN-WAS and cancelled NYP-BOS

195(27) cancelled WAS-RVR

87(27) cancelled *PHL*-RVR

147(27) cancelled WAS-LYH

168(27) cancelled NYP-BOS

140(27)-146(27) cancelled NYP-SPG

164(27)-82(27)-88(27) cancelled NYP-BOS

54(27) cancelled NYP-SPG-SAB

Keystone:

671(27)-672(27)-610(27); 669(27) cancelled PHL-HAR; 670(27) cancelled PHL-NYP

Long-Haul Service:

89(27)-79(27)-19(27)-97(27)

98(27)-80(27)-90(27)-50(27)-30(27) cancelled

48/448(27) cancelled TOL-NYP/BOS

50(27) cancelled IND-NYP

91(27) cancelled NYP-JAX; 92(27) cancelled JAX-NYP

Vermonter:

Due to ongoing trackwork trains 54/57 are cancelled between SAB and SPG,

with alternate transportation provided. Also note 57(27) cancelled NYP-WAS.

Empire Service:

63(27) cancelled ALB-NFL; 64(27) cancelled NFL-NYP

69(27) cancelled ALB-MTR

233(27)-283(27)-291(27)-253(27)-241(27)-243(27)-261(27)-238(27)-286(27)-262(27)-

-244(27)-296(27) cancelled entirely

280(27) cancelled ALB-NYP

49/449(27) cancelled NYP/BOS-TOL

Piedmont Service:

73(27)-74(27)-75(27)-76(27) cancelled

ADDED STOPS: 669(27) - Add stops EWR, MET

Remember, after the trains that are not cancelled have operated today NEC is going to be shut down and catenary powered down.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

MTA suspends fares on transit from evac areas:



> * In order to facilitate the mandatory evacuations in New York City and Long Island, the MTA will suspend collection of certain fares and tolls.
> 
> o Tolls are suspended at the Cross Bay Veterans Memorial Bridge and the Marine Parkway-Gil Hodges Memorial Bridge.
> 
> ...


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

List of MNRR and LIRR last trains from the _Wall Street Journal_.


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## Shanghai (Aug 27, 2011)

Regarding Jis' comment about falling trees snapping power lines, that is certainly

true in my town. Where I live, all of the utilities are under ground, but the feed

into my area come by ariel cables. I have some large trees near my house and in

the woods behind my house. They are old and four could hit my house if the fall.

I hope Irene downgrades in intensity and increases in speed to minimize her impact.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Downeaster plan for the weekend:



> *DOWNEASTER SERVICE CANCELLED SUNDAY*, August 28, 2011
> 
> Due to the potential impacts of tropical storm Irene, Amtrak Downeaster service between Portland and Boston is cancelled on Sunday, August 28, 2011 in the interest of public safety. This includes Trains 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698 and 699.
> 
> ...


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 27, 2011)

The Maryland Transportation Administration has decided to suspend light rail service beginning at 6:00PM today and Baltimore Metro and bus service at 9:00PM.


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## John Bredin (Aug 27, 2011)

John said:


> LSL was cancelled today and tomorrow. Amtrak informed me they are running from CHI to TOL and no further during this time. Monday train from CHI to NYP is sold out.


Did Amtrak say why Toledo rather than Cleveland, Erie, or Buffalo?! :wacko: How big is this storm anyhow? 

Chicago-Toledo seems hardly worth running as a train.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2011)

John Bredin said:


> John said:
> 
> 
> > LSL was cancelled today and tomorrow. Amtrak informed me they are running from CHI to TOL and no further during this time. Monday train from CHI to NYP is sold out.
> ...


The storm covers about 300 miles, so it stretches about 150 miles inland.

As for why Toledo, it's off the mainline and Amtrak can turn & clean the train there. Cleveland is right on the mainline so they cannot park a train there for several hours and the same applies in Buffalo. I'm not sure about Erie, I think that is actually off the mainline, but arranging cleaning could be a problem and I'm not sure about the ability to turn the train around to go back to Chicago.

Besides, I'd think that after parking the train that long in Erie, people boarding it for the run back to Chicago might have this really eerie feeling for the entire ride. :lol:


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Now I am hearing that some train consists may be stored on main line trackage on the NEC away from harm's way since some of the major yards can potentially flood if a storm surge of 8' actually materializes.

NJT is going to store stuff that would normally be at Bay Head Yard possibly on the NJCL track between Woodbridge and Rahway, is what is being mentioned by NJT folks on RR.net.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Mayor Bloomberg just said that mass transit will probably not be fully up and running before Monday afternoon.


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## Train2104 (Aug 27, 2011)

NJT rail, LIRR, MNRR, NYCS, NYCB has completed its shutdown, all revenue service trips have ended.

SEPTA begins to pull off the NEC with its last trains:

Wilmington/Newark train #221 departs Suburban Station at 3:34 p.m.

Airport train #3445 departs Suburban Station at 4 p.m.

Trenton train #9724 departs Trenton at 4:01 p.m.

Paoli/Thorndale train #1545 departs Suburban Station at 4:15 p.m. 

Chestnut Hill West train #839 departs Suburban Station at 4:20 p.m. 

Chestnut Hill West train #846 departs Chestnut Hill West at 4:23 p.m. 

Paoli/Thorndale train #562 departs Malvern at at 4:30 p.m.

Wilmington/Newark train #222 departs Wilmington at 4:36 p.m.

Airport train #446 departs airport at 4:39 p.m.

Trenton train #9723 departs Suburban Station at 4:45 p.m.

Note that a set will be stuck in Trenton.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 27, 2011)

Here are some pictures from NYP:





IMG00005-20110827-0941 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr





IMG00010-20110827-1118 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


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## jis (Aug 27, 2011)

Similar Aquadams are going into place inside the subway tunnels that pass through areas below 14th St. I am told that some are double height too.


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## henryj (Aug 27, 2011)

jis said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > If service is suspended on the NEC does this mean Amtrak will take six years to restore service as in the Sunset east? If Sunyside is affected doesn't this also suspend all trains to Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta as well as the Florida trains? If all those trains are suspended, Amtrak could even turn a profit this year.
> ...


As it turned out, it wasn't all that strong was it. I just looked at the Amtrak Status Maps and everything east of the Mississippi is gone.


----------



## JayPea (Aug 27, 2011)

henryj said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > henryj said:
> ...



Yep, all trains east of Indianapolis and Toledo and north of Jacksonville are cancelled through tomorrow. This as of 8:30 PM EDT per Amtrak's website.


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Aug 28, 2011)

The worst seems to be over here in the DC region, but high winds are still forecast for this afternoon, as the beast exits the Mid-Atlantic. So far I still have power, unlike 500,000 of my neighbors, and no downed trees.

Metro seems to have done what it set out to do yesterday, and ran on all lines until the scheduled closing at 3:00AM. I do wonder in the wisdom of this decision, as people were told to stay home after nightfall, and there certainly could not have been many riders.


----------



## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Metro seems to have done what it set out to do yesterday, and ran on all lines until the scheduled closing at 3:00AM. I do wonder in the wisdom of this decision, as people were told to stay home after nightfall, and there certainly could not have been many riders.


I wish Metro would instead run full day services on weekends. That would be damn site more useful IMHO. 

Looks like that in New York, most fortunately the subway flooding that was feared may possibly not happen. However, Holland Tunnel is now closed due to flooding, so things got pretty close. Belt Parkway is flooded out in Brooklyn and is closed. They say that the worst of the surge will be over around 10am. Surge height was generally less than 5' which is not quite as high as was expected and is not high enough to substantially top the protection dam at the south end of Manhattan.


----------



## amamba (Aug 28, 2011)

We are under heavy sustained winds of about 40 mph right now in my area with gusts of up to 60-70 mph. Lots of downed trees in my neighborhood and over 80,000 folks without power in RI. Luckily I still have it but who knows for how long as we have some large trees near the power lines by my house.


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## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

Pictures courtesy of MTA....

Metro North Hudson/Amtrak's Empire Corridor flooded out at Ossining....












And here is Ossining station:


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## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

Picture courtesy of MTA....

Metro North Harlem Line at Valhalla:






An MTA spokesperson was on WCBS explaining how much flooding is there all over the subway system. They cleared out four yards and most of them did flood. So now they have to clear those yards to get trains off of the main lines where they are stored and then complete inspections to re-start the system.


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## pennyk (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> Picture courtesy of MTA....
> 
> Metro North Harlem Line at Valhalla:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update jis. Did you suffer any damage?


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> Picture courtesy of MTA....
> 
> Metro North Harlem Line at Valhalla:
> 
> ...


I'll echo PennyK and say "thanks" for all the information you've been posting on this thread.

From the pics, sure looks like there are some big problems to deal with before MTA gets totally back to normal.

Fortunately I can be a bystander this next week, as it sure looks like it is going to be an 'interesting' one for rail transportation here in the East.


----------



## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

pennyk said:


> Thanks for the update jis. Did you suffer any damage?





The Davy Crockett said:


> I'll echo PennyK and say "thanks" for all the information you've been posting on this thread.


You're most welcome. No damage here. I am far away from any flood zones and far inland and away from the path of the eye. And no trees toppled over around here though many lost a limb or two. Nothing major. We did not lose power or FIOS so that was good too.

We just saw some blue sky and the Sun peeking out!


----------



## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

Photo courtesy of MNRR.....

Mudslide blocking 2 of 4 MNRR Hudson Line tracks near Spuyten Duyvil:


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## afigg (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> Photo courtesy of MNRR.....
> 
> Mudslide blocking 2 of 4 MNRR Hudson Line tracks near Spuyten Duyvil:


Pretty safe to say that it will be several days before Amtrak and Metro-North service resumes over the Hudson line.

Wonder when we will get reports on the state of the NEC?


----------



## AlanB (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> However, Holland Tunnel is now closed due to flooding, so things got pretty close.


Holland Tunnel is reopened.

Here's a photo from the N subway line in Brooklyn.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6088923811/

And here's two of the 145th Street/Lenox Yard.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6088662319/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6088662639/


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## the_traveler (Aug 28, 2011)

No real damage at Chez Traveler East, except for the power going out for about 3 hours!



But I hear that many parts of RI have trees down and beach erosion.


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## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

We just lost power in two of the three phases about two hours back. No estimate on when they will get around to fixing. Apparently a big area is involved. Most traffic lights are out around here too. I still have power in one phase, roughly speaking in One room to play around with.


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## John (Aug 28, 2011)

Florida and Carolina trains are cancelled from New York tomorrow. On Amtrak's Facebook page someone said the water is up to the platform in Trenton, which leads me to believe NEC service will be out tomorrow.


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## Train2104 (Aug 28, 2011)

TRE is flooded out:






Image from Times of Trenton.


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## pennyk (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> We just lost power in two of the three phases about two hours back. No estimate on when they will get around to fixing. Apparently a big area is involved. Most traffic lights are out around here too. I still have power in one phase, roughly speaking in One room to play around with.


I just spoke with Shanghai (on his cell phone). He lives a few miles from Jis and has had no power or land line phone since about 4am. He and his family are ok even though a tree hit his house. He was told it might take up to 5 days to get his power restored.


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## sttsxm (Aug 28, 2011)

Not looking good for Amtrak NEC monday..there is about 1-2 feet of water covering the tracks at TRE...we rode past and they just showed it on TV..the water is covering the wheels and a little of the bottoms of several SEPTA trains that are in/near the station...


----------



## sttsxm (Aug 28, 2011)

John said:


> <br />Florida and Carolina trains are cancelled from New York tomorrow. On Amtrak's Facebook page someone said the water is up to the platform in Trenton, which leads me to believe NEC service will be out tomorrow.<br />


<br /><br /><br />
it is...we rode by and there's a LOT of water....


----------



## henryj (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for all the info and pictures of what is going on. I think, inspite of the flooding and damage, that the northeast really dodged the bullet on this one. The worst flooding Houston every had was from only a tropical storm, Allison in 2001, which dropped over three feet of rain on downtown Houston. Keep the info and pictures coming. Very interesting.


----------



## afigg (Aug 28, 2011)

sttsxm said:


> Not looking good for Amtrak NEC monday..there is about 1-2 feet of water covering the tracks at TRE...we rode past and they just showed it on TV..the water is covering the wheels and a little of the bottoms of several SEPTA trains that are in/near the station...


Tried to book trains on the Amtrak website, there are no trains available on Monday from WAS to NYP. However, trains can be booked for Tuesday. Looks like the NEC will be shut down tomorrow while Amtrak does repairs and checks the tracks with service planned to restart early Tuesday morning - if there is no major damage.


----------



## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

MNRR has no power on New Haven line due to power outage in Connecticut.

SEPTA trains that were parked at Barracks Yard in Trenton have their motors shorted out by water. NJT had managed to move all it's trains to Morrisville Yard.

NJT also managed to move all trains out of Bay Head and Hillburn yards which were both flooded.

On the M&E the story has been one dozens of fallen trees. There has not been even a single X move on it today. Several MoW vehicles have been running up and down removing trees and fixing catenary.

To give you an idea of the general devastation, I went out for a spin after 6pm, and discovered that short of getting on a highway, I could not get any further than two miles from my home without finding the road blocked. There is at present a single ramp to a highway open from this area. Hopefully things will be a bit better tomorrow morning.


----------



## Train2104 (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> MNRR has no power on New Haven line due to power outage in Connecticut.
> 
> SEPTA trains that were parked at Barracks Yard in Trenton have their motors shorted out by water. NJT had managed to move all it's trains to Morrisville Yard.
> 
> ...


Per the governor, NJTRO will be shut down tommorow with the exception of the Atlantic City Line. Hudson-Bergen/River Line will be on weekend schedule. Buses on modified weekday schedule. No mention of NLR.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 28, 2011)

Amtrak just announced on twitter that the NEC will operate from WAS-PHL only tomorrow.


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## sttsxm (Aug 28, 2011)

Amtrak did post updates on their FB and Twitter pages...pretty much everything from PHL to BOS is cancelled tomorrow including the LSL, Auto trains, Silver service,etc etc......

yikes.....

https://www.facebook...150271660301127


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## jis (Aug 28, 2011)

The New York State Thruway is shut down due to flooding between Albany and Nyack ( west end of the Tappan Zee Bridge).

So it will not be easy to get to Albany from New York by any means for a bit.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2011)

jis said:


> The New York State Thruway is shut down due to flooding between Albany and Nyack ( west end of the Tappan Zee Bridge).
> 
> So it will not be easy to get to Albany from New York by any means for a bit.


Probably good if it keeps the Politicians out of Albany! :lol:


----------



## Shawn Ryu (Aug 28, 2011)

A bit off topic but NYC subways will resume running, less frequent service for all lines, but service will resume, Monday morning from 6.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 28, 2011)

It looks like Grand Central is sealed up dark and tight Sunday evening and will reopen Monday morning, even though there will be no Metro-North for the foreseeable future. Station security wouldn't even let a WNBC reporter in to get some B-Roll for the Sunday 11.


----------



## Shanghai (Aug 29, 2011)

pennyk said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > We just lost power in two of the three phases about two hours back. No estimate on when they will get around to fixing. Apparently a big area is involved. Most traffic lights are out around here too. I still have power in one phase, roughly speaking in One room to play around with.
> ...


*I'm back again!! Power came back at 11:30pm last night. Now, to get those trees off my house!!*


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Aug 29, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


Hope the damage is not too bad. :help:


----------



## jis (Aug 29, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> *I'm back again!! Power came back at 11:30pm last night. Now, to get those trees off my house!!*


Good for you! We still have only partial power, and a trickle for water supply with a stricture to boil water before using in any food preparation or drinking.

I went out for a spin last evening and was amazed at how difficult it was to go anywhere, with most roads blocked at various places with fallen trees or flooding. Didn't make it more than two miles from home in any direction, and finally turned back.

BTW, not a single train, not even an X move, has gone by on the Morris and Essex main line by here between Short Hills and Summit yet. The last train that went by here was before the storm related shutdown on Saturday. I wonder when they will start testing and moving equipment into position for service commencement, which possibly will be tomorrow.


----------



## jis (Aug 29, 2011)

And here's Princeton Jct....







Also there are several washouts reported between South Amboy and Hazlet on the NJCL, the biggest one being just south of Matawan station.


----------



## CHamilton (Aug 29, 2011)

MTA has posted some amazing pics on Flickr. It looks like the NY area will be a while before it's back up and running.


----------



## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

Locomotives are being pulled off trains at PHL looks like their being turned at Zoo. Engines are being put on the reverse end of the train. Seems like it's well worked out.


----------



## afigg (Aug 29, 2011)

Amtrak posted an updated service alert late this morning that Keystone service between Philly and Harrisburg will start this afternoon and that they are extending some Regionals down to Richmond. So the Keystone East and WAS to Richmond corridors are open for business.

"Amtrak Keystone Service will resume on Monday, Aug. 29 with Train 647 (3:45 p.m. departure from Philadelphia) and Train 652 (3:20 departure from Harrisburg). In addition, Northeast Regional Train 95 (noon departure from Philadelphia) and Train 83 (3:30 p.m. departure from Philadelphia) will operate from Philadelphia to Richmond."

I also see that the Downeaster is back in service this afternoon.


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## acelafan (Aug 29, 2011)

jis said:


> And here's Princeton Jct....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that's impressive! If someone has a before picture (or an after-it's-dried-out-picture) that would be a neat comparison.


----------



## Shanghai (Aug 29, 2011)

jis said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > *I'm back again!! Power came back at 11:30pm last night. Now, to get those trees off my house!!*
> ...


I drove into town today to get some fresh milk and bread. It is 2 1/2 miles on a main street and I had three detours

before I got to the food store. Mostly trees blocking the street or one lane. It was strange to pass by the train

station (NJT Morris & Essex main) with not one car in the parking lot!!


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 29, 2011)

Wow!  *BIG News!!! *   Per the "Service Alert" issued today - Monday 8/29/11 - The Maple Leaf is now running WAS - TWO!!!  That is great NEWS!!!    :lol:   -_- :huh:

On a much more somber note, looks like Vermont really got slammed with 7+ inches of rain. Hope all the work that has been done has not been undone.


----------



## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

afigg said:


> Amtrak posted an updated service alert late this morning that Keystone service between Philly and Harrisburg will start this afternoon and that they are extending some Regionals down to Richmond. So the Keystone East and WAS to Richmond corridors are open for business.
> 
> "Amtrak Keystone Service will resume on Monday, Aug. 29 with Train 647 (3:45 p.m. departure from Philadelphia) and Train 652 (3:20 departure from Harrisburg). In addition, Northeast Regional Train 95 (noon departure from Philadelphia) and Train 83 (3:30 p.m. departure from Philadelphia) will operate from Philadelphia to Richmond."
> 
> I also see that the Downeaster is back in service this afternoon.


Points runs!! :lol: Not really. Could you imagine trying to do a points run on a day like this! :unsure: Just to clarify it's train 93 that goes to RVR. 83 is Friday only and goes to NPN.


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## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Wow!  *BIG News!!! *   Per the "Service Alert" issued today - Monday 8/29/11 - The Maple Leaf is now running WAS - TWO!!!  That is great NEWS!!!    :lol:   -_- :huh:
> 
> On a much more somber note, looks like Vermont really got slammed with 7+ inches of rain. Hope all the work that has been done has not been undone.


Here it is. He's not kidding!


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 29, 2011)

Acela150 said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!  *BIG News!!! *   Per the "Service Alert" issued today - Monday 8/29/11 - The Maple Leaf is now running WAS - TWO!!!  That is great NEWS!!!    :lol:   -_- :huh:
> ...


Though I'm not as up on the trains as you guys, I did see that and wondered if it was a mistype...or if there's a Washington station in NY?


----------



## AlanB (Aug 29, 2011)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > The Davy Crockett said:
> ...


Someone just screwed things up, the train normally operates Toronto to NY, not Washington. And for the moment, it only operates to Nigara Falls from Toronto.


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## AlanB (Aug 29, 2011)

Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.

Metro North has reopened the New Haven, although they are running on a Sunday schedule today. But I think that has as much to do with lack of crews & riders as it does to do with them trying to finish picking up the pieces.


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## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.
> 
> Metro North has reopened the New Haven, although they are running on a Sunday schedule today. But I think that has as much to do with lack of crews & riders as it does to do with them trying to finish picking up the pieces.


Beat me by 10 minutes Alan! :lol: Saw it on facebook a minute ago.


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## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

Full keystone service tomorrow between PHL and HAR.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 29, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.


That applies to service between Boston and New York only. There is no schedule for resumption south of New York.


----------



## NY Penn (Aug 29, 2011)

AlanB said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


So, in essence, the _Maple Leaf_ is now exclusively a VIA train. However, it operates using exclusively Amtrak equipment.


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## jis (Aug 29, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak just Tweeted that they will restore Acela service to Boston to DC starting tomorrow morning.
> ...


That's correct. Water still on tracks south of Trenton. The rails are above water at Trenton platform. But it will be at least another day before anything can operate through there.

After water goes down they will have to ballast and tamp couple of miles worth of four tracks + platform tracks at the station, filling in a few known washouts. There are places where water flowed across the tracks washing away the ballast from under the track. They will have to replace all switch machines and control cables. And then they'll be ready to roll.

Amtrak's tweet said Boston to New York. There was no mention of DC in the context of Acela in it. OTOH service south of DC is getting restored this afternoon.

NJTransit will be operating service between New Brunswick and New York tomorrow. No service to Trenton yet. SEPTA reportedly will operate Levittown to Philly tomorrow, again no service to Trenton.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 29, 2011)

I just saw an online news article at "Trains" and the word from Vermont is not good. I'll not go into much detail, and I'll use my own words, but it sounds like there is currently no rail service in Vermont. Bridges that have been around since before 1900 have been knocked out of service, and a bridge that the Ethan Allen runs over is unusable because it appears to have moved. :help:


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## NJgirl (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.

Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!

Thanks for the update Jis! That's much more info than I've gotten off the news here. Sounds like we may have a shot at restoration of service by the end of the week then?

Has anyone heard what the CSX tracks are like south of WAS? Not sure if VA and NC had any damage to the route the Palmetto ansd Silver Service trains take...


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## Anderson (Aug 29, 2011)

NJgirl,

I'm currently stuck in Florida because of the washouts up north. This is part of why I've generally supported splitting up super-long operations into shorter segments: You can more easily break a subsection.

By the way, is the reason they can't just restore the Silvers through WAS or PHL Sunnyside? Also, why no Star this weekend? It doesn't list on Amsnag.


----------



## jis (Aug 29, 2011)

Here is what the Port Jervis Line looks like between Sloatsburg and Suffern






it will clearly be a while before service is restored beyond Suffern on the Port Jervis Line.


----------



## jis (Aug 29, 2011)

NJgirl said:


> I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.
> 
> Let's hope they can get service back in Hamilton/Trenton asap!
> 
> ...


You're most welcome NJgirl.

It is very likely that service will be restored through Trenton before the end of the week.

Service has been restored today to Richmond VA from Washington DC. Haven't heard anything that would prevent service to Florida from being restored within a few days. But then again, it is not easy to find out about these things precisely.


----------



## Acela150 (Aug 29, 2011)

jis said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I'll confirm the Septa part. On a Septa Facebook post certain trains are cancelled but trains will terminate at Levittown tomorrow.


----------



## Anderson (Aug 30, 2011)

jis said:


> NJgirl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm supposed to be on the Silver Star on the 6th out of Trenton for my Disney trip. And I've got theater tix for this weekend in NYC.
> ...


The Trenton troubles are likely to be a problem here. They regrettably can't seem to cut the trains at WAS or PHL (and WAS would actually make sense as having a commissary where orders could at least theoretically be increased for a few days) because they need to get into Sunnyside. At least if Amtrak got folks into WAS, a combo of NER trains and the various NJ Transit/SEPTA services (I think there may be some way to make most of the trip off-corridor) or relatively short (if obnoxious) bus rides would get everyone into NYP.

Actually, this raises a question: Why doesn't Amtrak bustitute Trenton out of PHL and just run the Silvers (at least) over another routing? If the problem is strictly south of TRE, running things over into Camden would seem to make sense...and if it's IN Trenton, isn't there some way to hook up West Trenton SEPTA with the Corridor line?


----------



## PRR 60 (Aug 30, 2011)

Anderson said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > NJgirl said:
> ...


The flooding occurred at the Trenton station with water just about up to the elevation of the high level platforms. Any bustitution would have to bypass Trenton entirely. With the volume of service, and it being all electric, there is no way around the problem with trains. It's a matter of the water receding, the flooded tracks and equipment being inspected, and necessary repairs being made.


----------



## eagle628 (Aug 30, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> I just saw an online news article at "Trains" and the word from Vermont is not good. I'll not go into much detail, and I'll use my own words, but it sounds like there is currently no rail service in Vermont. Bridges that have been around since before 1900 have been knocked out of service, and a bridge that the Ethan Allen runs over is unusable because it appears to have moved. :help:



I read the same thing. Two bridges knocked out on the Roxbury and Palmer subdivisions (the Vermonter travels over the Roxbury and part of the Palmer, IIRC), a thousand feet of track gone in Bethel (the tracks follow the White River there through something of a trench below the street level of the town, which makes me think that one of the bridges there probably washed out), and apparently it'll be about a week before everything is reopened, which strikes me as optimistic at best.


----------



## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

Anderson said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > You're most welcome NJgirl.
> ...


Everyone appears to be assuming that the Silver Service is not running because of NEC problems, and it seems to have occurred to no one yet that the Auto Train is also not running, and that surely would not be because of NEC problems?

Even if CSX was in fine shape through the Carolinas, where the heck are you going to find the consists for running the Silvers? Half the consists that are normally used are stuck in Sunnyside. At best they could resume one of them WAS - MIA, but only if CSX is able to run them. If CSX was able to run them, one would imagine that the Auto Train would already be running, which it is not AFAICT.

Secondly there is no service to Trenton by either SEPTA or NJTransit at present. So they cannot provide connectivity to New York from Philly. Besides if they could then Amtrak could run their own trains too. It is the same set of 4 tracks that is used by all.

Any bus bridge scheme appears to be more of a logistical nightmare for very little gain, and considerable additional barbs and complaints from passengers because of how poorly it will perform. Considering that this specific problem will clear out in a day or two anyway, why not concentrate on getting the problem fixed instead of diverting energy to Rube Goldberg schemes?

The fact that the Auto Train is not running suggests that there are other CSX issues that prevents service from resuming at present.

The Trenton troubles will get resolved in two or three days max.



> Actually, this raises a question: Why doesn't Amtrak bustitute Trenton out of PHL and just run the Silvers (at least) over another routing? If the problem is strictly south of TRE, running things over into Camden would seem to make sense...and if it's IN Trenton, isn't there some way to hook up West Trenton SEPTA with the Corridor line?


Because it is impractical. There is no practically feasible route available for running the Silvers. And if bus bridge was really practical for corridor service no one would bother repairing the corridor. They'd just run bus bridge.  So it is fortunate that bus bridge is impractical in some sense.

Now for Camden.... How the heck would anyone run anything into Camden for what I don't understand. Are you looking at a 30 year old map? There is no usable connection from the NEC to the old C&A at Trenton anymore. There is a rickety unmaintained track that connects to Ham but that was under the same 4 feet of water. And where will you go in Camden? Park in the middle of Pavonia Yard? it is not like Camden has a mainline train capable station anymore. The old C&A is now what is called the NJTransit RiverLINE which runs DLRTs at 30min intervals all through the day from Trenton RiverLINE Station to Camden Waterfront. The last few miles over streetcar running tracks, including Walter Rand Center which is where one connects to PATCO.

Oh and once you got to Camden from the north what will you do? A long backup move from Pavonia Yard through Fishhouse, across the Delair Bridge to Shore to Philly? I can see Conrail Shared Assets going bonkers over that one. Never mind that first to get to Camden from the north, if you could get onto the C&A at Ham, you'd have to convince NJT to stop running the RiverLINE for the duration to get FRA mandated temporal separation.

Yes you can get a train from West Trenton to the Corridor through Bound Brook, the old Crusader route. But wait! CSX in Bound Brook is/was under much deeper water, with a washout or too of their own! There is a reason that Bound Brook is referred to as Constricted Creek. The Bound Brook/Manville area is the first to flood in any storm, way before anything happens in Trenton. The NJT track is up and running through Bound Brook today. Don;t know the status of the CSX track towards West Trenton which is at a lower level as it crosses the river.

It is not clear to me why one needs to bend over backwards to run the Florida trains for these few days anyway, Specially when CSX has problems running them even south of Richmond to Florida, or indeed even to Selma, because if they could then the Carolinian could run Washington to Charlotte. Frankly the LD trains even under normal circumstance run at relatively low priority on the NEC, and it is unlikely that they will do any different under emergency conditions.

Just hold on for a day or two and they will all get back to normal.


----------



## NJgirl (Aug 30, 2011)

Amtrak just replied to someone on their Facebook page that they anticipate Auto Train service in both directions to resume tomorrow.


----------



## Anderson (Aug 30, 2011)

Ok, let me make a few points:

1) Two of the sets are in Miami, two in Sunnyside for each of the trains (that's four Miami, four Sunnyside). That's why they can presumably start things

2) Amtrak could, in theory, move the Sunnyside consists out of Sunnyside and down to PHL or WAS through a non-revenue route if they needed to (i.e. some segment of the Hudson tunnels had been rendered unusable on an extended basis).

3) Again, if Trenton was looking to be out for a while (more than on a day-to-day basis), they could also route the LD trains around Trenton and offer passage to PHL/NWK as appropriate. With the Regionals, this might not work, but I'd think there was a way around this for at least the LD trains...even if it was so crass as doing the engine swap at Newark a la the Pennsy's Manhattan Transfer.


----------



## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

NJgirl said:


> Amtrak just replied to someone on their Facebook page that they anticipate Auto Train service in both directions to resume tomorrow.


That's good news indeed. That means at least CSX between Richmond and Florida is good to go tomorrow.

News from Trenton is that they are dumping ballast on the where the washout was. next they bring in tampers to stabilize the track. in parallel they are possibly working the C&S stuff. So if things go well they might have something running by tomorrow or the day after. Again, it is difficult to tell from afar what is exactly going on, but there are reports posted on rr.net by people who are on location about the ballasting work going on today.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 30, 2011)

Good to see our Eastern/Northeastern Brothers and Sisters back on line!  Hopefully the power will be back on soon for everyone, and the damage to the infrastructure can be repaired quickly so everyone can get on with their lives! From what Ive seen Amtrak, the Freight Roads and the other Transit systems are doing a first rate job, looks like Vermont and the middle of New Jersey got it the worst!

On a personal level wondering if Alan and his mom will make it to Canada this weekend, the problem seems to be from NYP-ALB? Thanks to jis and everyone else for the updates, pics etc. Best to all our Northern Brothers and Sisters, Yankees and Sawk Nation! Go Rangers! :lol:


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 30, 2011)

I saw an article that claimed coming budget cuts and related bureaucratic and budgetary wrangling would make repairing and replacing damaged infrastructure much more tedious and time consuming than in years pasts. Considering how long it took (and continues to take?) to get New Orleans up and running again *before* all these budget cuts I hope that's not the case.


----------



## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Ok, let me make a few points:
> 
> 1) Two of the sets are in Miami, two in Sunnyside for each of the trains (that's four Miami, four Sunnyside). That's why they can presumably start things


Because the CSX line between Richmond and JAX was not open for service, even if all consists were available there was not going to be any Silver service. The route becomes available starting tomorrow, and immediately the Auto Train starts running. I expect Palmetto and Carolinian will also start running to DC if they can scrounge together enough equipment. We'll see what, if anything is done with the Silver Service. They could run one of those trains between Washington and Miami with ease given what they have available below Trenton.



> 2) Amtrak could, in theory, move the Sunnyside consists out of Sunnyside and down to PHL or WAS through a non-revenue route if they needed to (i.e. some segment of the Hudson tunnels had been rendered unusable on an extended basis).


Yes that is certainly possible, though given how many routes have breaches now it would be an interesting exercise over the last two days.



> 3) Again, if Trenton was looking to be out for a while (more than on a day-to-day basis), they could also route the LD trains around Trenton and offer passage to PHL/NWK as appropriate. With the Regionals, this might not work, but I'd think there was a way around this for at least the LD trains...even if it was so crass as doing the engine swap at Newark a la the Pennsy's Manhattan Transfer.


I bet neither CSX nor NS would accept routing over their heavily loaded routes for a semi-regular service without extracting a steep price. What other route do you have in mind? Given said steep price, and the enormous amount of additional and unpredictable amount of time it would take, it is simply not practical IMHO.

Interestingly this very discussion comes up repeatedly every three months or so in rr.net and each time it is comprehensively shot down by the freight and Amtrak guys, and still we go through the cycle with utter regularity.  Here for example is an excerpt from a recent message on the subject:



> I do agree .... about being tired of hearing the fairly parallel Trenton line could be used for detours. Its all hypothetical but it will never happen. Amtrak would need to deal with 3 different railroads (septa, csx and CSAO). The Trenton line doesn't have the capacity to deal with the 35 plus freight trains on the line now and then once you arrive to Conrail Shared Assets Lehigh Line, you have both CSX and NS and also NJT Raritan trains to deal with for a stretch. The whole route is significantly slower and who would run these trains? Amtrak crews aren't qualified, septa doesn't have enough crews to run what they have and neither do the freight roads. Its a fantasy of mine to see passenger trains to run the whole length of the line but in terms of detours, it ain't gonna happen. Also diesel hauled trains are not allowed to run thru the CCCT and I don't think the P42s are cleared to run thru it. Someone has mentioned a few alternatives which require reverse moves but they too add to the travel time. Since I do this stuff for a living, I've become a realist.


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## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

From Amtrak posting on Facebook:



> Limited Northeast Regional service between New Haven and Springfield, Limited Empire Service between Albany/Rensselaer and New York, this afternoon, Auto Train between Sanford, Fla. and Lorton, Va., resumes tomorrow
> 
> Amtrak service between New York City and Boston is operating, including all Acela Express trains and most Northeast Regional service. Most Northeast Regional service is operating south of Philadelphia, but no Acela Express, Northeast Regional or other Amtrak trains can operate north of Philadelphia to New York due to flood damage near Trenton, N.J.
> 
> ...


Rumor has it that they may be able to get things started up by tomorrow afternoon, and there is a possibility that at least the Crescent and possibly the Star could run tomorrow. But it looks more likely that they will all be restored day after tomorrow. Stay tuned.


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## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

CSX has a washout near Fonda NY on the Empire Corridor, and a possible bridge damage caused by unsecured barges hitting the bridge near Hoffman's, which possibly is about to be fixed. Explains why the Leaf is running only to NFL and not all the way to ALB.


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## Train2104 (Aug 30, 2011)

Amtrak is saying that TRE and the Corridor will be back in operation tomorrow.

SEPTA is saying they will still turn at Levittown tomorrow.

NJT hasn't said anything yet.


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## deimos (Aug 30, 2011)

Irene induced floods in Vermont...very devastating!

Refer to http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/us/31floods.html

Amtrak apparently suspends Vermont service indefinitely

Sorry about the link...it worked when I accessed it from Google News...

Here's link to Google News that includes referenced article.

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=nn


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## amamba (Aug 30, 2011)

Looks like most NE corridor stuff will be up and running tomorrow!


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## jis (Aug 30, 2011)

Silver Service and Crescent should be running tomorrow too. It looks like anything that gets beyond Richmond later in the day will be running tomorrow. Palmetto and Carolinian not running tomorrow, well Carolinian is running Selma to Charlotte. I suspect they will run the whole route day after unless CSX for some reason has an embargo during the day between Richmond and Selma.

See Amtrak advisory.


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## jis (Aug 31, 2011)

As expected, service has been restored through Trenton and NJTransit has also restored service to Trenton. There are residual delays due to continuing signal problems in the area, which was sort of, to be expected. Should clear up in a day.

Trenton nice and dry and ready for service Tuesday night!


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## Linda T (Aug 31, 2011)

Well, we sat in Richmond last Friday with two tickets, one for Sunday on the Cardinal, and one for Wednesday on the Card (both train 51) we wanted to make sure we could get out. Well... it's been cancelled both days. I just called Amtrak a few minutes ago and they told me 51 from NY to CHI was cancelled today! Wow! I'm glad we got an Avis rental car and drove home just as Irene was pounding on the door of Richmond. :help: It wasn't fun driving in the wind and rain, but it sure beats having spent hotel points for three days only to find we wouldn't have gotten home today either.

Why doesn't Amtrak have the Card on their list of cancelled trains?


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## jis (Aug 31, 2011)

Linda T said:


> Why doesn't Amtrak have the Card on their list of cancelled trains?


It is there in the Amtrak advisory pointed to above. Here is the pertinent section quoted from it:



> *Service remains suspended for these routes or segments:*
> 
> * Northeast Regional trains west of Richmond (Staples Mill) to and from Newport News, Va.
> * Empire Service trains east of Albany/Rensselaer, to and from Buffalo/Niagara Falls
> ...


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## Train2104 (Aug 31, 2011)

SEPTA is bustituting Levittown-Trenton starting tomorrow... wonder what's impeding them.


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## jis (Aug 31, 2011)

Lots more Amtrak trains restored tomorrow. See Amtrak Advisory.


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## eagle628 (Aug 31, 2011)

And the return of Vermonter was delayed a bit...NECR estimates that it'll take six weeks, at the very least, to repair the track north of White River Junction. Two bridges damaged, as well as several sections of a thousand feet or more of track with no roadbed left. Vermonter service was supposed to resume on September 18, it's now been suspended indefinitely. Presumably the bustitution will be extended. (source was a Trains Magazine article behind a paywall)


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 31, 2011)

eagle628 said:


> And the return of Vermonter was delayed a bit...NECR estimates that it'll take six weeks, at the very least, to repair the track north of White River Junction. Two bridges damaged, as well as several sections of a thousand feet or more of track with no roadbed left. Vermonter service was supposed to resume on September 18, it's now been suspended indefinitely. Presumably the bustitution will be extended. (source was a Trains Magazine article behind a paywall)


With quite probably the worst flooding on record in many locations, it is unfortunately, not a surprise. (Do a Google video search on Vermont flooding, to get an idea) It is likely that much of the work done this summer was swept away in no time. I wonder how this will impact the Ethan Allen, both in the short term -as in service restoration - and in the long term - the extension to Burlington.


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## Acela150 (Aug 31, 2011)

Just wondering how many pages is this going be? :giggle: Are we going for the Record? :giggle: :lol:

Anyway, is there a timetable that CSX has for the RVR NPN section?


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## Acela150 (Aug 31, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> SEPTA is bustituting Levittown-Trenton starting tomorrow... wonder what's impeding them.


Wimps.. :lol:

My guess is that they are waiting for some type of interlocking to be fixed.. Just a guess.


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## eagle628 (Aug 31, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> eagle628 said:
> 
> 
> > And the return of Vermonter was delayed a bit...NECR estimates that it'll take six weeks, at the very least, to repair the track north of White River Junction. Two bridges damaged, as well as several sections of a thousand feet or more of track with no roadbed left. Vermonter service was supposed to resume on September 18, it's now been suspended indefinitely. Presumably the bustitution will be extended. (source was a Trains Magazine article behind a paywall)
> ...


Yes, I happen to know that first-hand, I don't need videos.



The Davy Crockett said:


> I wonder how this will impact the Ethan Allen, both in the short term -as in service restoration - and in the long term - the extension to Burlington.


Freight service was supposed to resume Whitehall-Rutland last night, so I imagine the Ethan Allen should resume service along the entire route fairly soon. As for Burlington, the effects of this storm will have been long since cleaned up by the time that's got a decent shot at finally starting.


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## jis (Sep 1, 2011)

Here is a slideshow of NJTransit damage pictures. Has several pictures of Trenton among others.


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## jis (Sep 1, 2011)

Amtrak service advisory for Sept 1..... still no service other than the LSL between ALB and BUF

Service adjustments for Thursday Sept 01

NORTHEAST CORRIDOR:

Normal NEC service restored, all Keystones to operate.

Acela Express 2103(1) and 2126(1) will not stop at Trenton.

Regionals 67(30), 66(1), 95(1), 94(1) cancelled between Washington and Newport News.

LONG DISTANCE:

89(1) and 90(1) cancelled. 89(2) and 90(2) expected to operate.

EMPIRE SERVICE:

232, 280, 284, 281, 283, 241(1) cancelled.

64(1), 63(1) cancelled Niagara Falls-New York.

290(1) and 291(1) will not operate north of Rensselaer, bustitution provided to/from the north.

49/449(1) and 48/448(1) will operate with estimated 3-hour delays between Syracuse and Amsterdam.

NOTE: 448(31) operates Rensselaer-Boston.


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## jis (Sep 1, 2011)

Some news about the Port Jervis Line from trainorders:



> Unbelievable the amount of rumors flying around here. What will happen is: The line will be rebuilt and it will NOT take months to do it either! I am a conductor for NJT and we already officially know that starting Monday or possibly sooner there SHOULD be trains running from Pt. Jervis to Harriman, with a bus bridge to Ramsey rt. 17 station. This is not set in stone but the most likely scenario until the line is completely fixed in approx 4-6 weeks. No one is abandoning anything!!


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2011)

eagle628 said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > eagle628 said:
> ...


Obviously the physical damage to the tracks will be cleaned up soon. I was probably not clear, but I was referring to the fiscal damage to the state, and if there will be state money available to extend the Ethen Allen due to the enormous costs the state has and will incur due to the damage.


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## jis (Sep 1, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> SEPTA is bustituting Levittown-Trenton starting tomorrow... wonder what's impeding them.


What is going on is that Trenton is currently operating with several spiked switches, i.e. they are spiked in one direction, pending replacement of switch machines. Most of these at the west end of Fair interlocking I believe. This forces certain ops to be impossible, among which is getting the SEPTA trains into the side platform. It will get fixed in due time as recovery completes over the next few days.

Meanwhile, apparently NJT is now getting complaints from the Trenton shuffle customers as to why the bustitution of SEPTA is not being announced in New York Penn Station! This suggests that there are really quite a lot of Trenton Shuffle customers that exist. Of course NJT ought to know better than anyone else since they sell most of those shuffle tickets. They might actually start announcing the state of affairs more frequently at Penn Station it seems.

But it is an interesting illustration of traffic patterns that exist that are not fully acknowledged in the primary goals under which outfits like NJT operate.


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## jis (Sep 1, 2011)

MTA is invoking emergency powers to rapidly reconstruct the Port Jervis Line. See:

http://www.mta.info/news/stories/?story=363


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## eagle628 (Sep 1, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Obviously the physical damage to the tracks will be cleaned up soon. I was probably not clear, but I was referring to the fiscal damage to the state, and if there will be state money available to extend the Ethen Allen due to the enormous costs the state has and will incur due to the damage.



The plan has, as far as I know, always been to use federal money for the extension, so I wouldn't think the damage would have a significant impact.

On a more immediate note, it seems the Ethan Allen resumed today, according to this. Although the article does seem to think Rutland is in Connecticutt, not sure about that.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2011)

eagle628 said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously the physical damage to the tracks will be cleaned up soon. I was probably not clear, but I was referring to the fiscal damage to the state, and if there will be state money available to extend the Ethen Allen due to the enormous costs the state has and will incur due to the damage.
> ...


I'm not positive about this, but I think the Federal money would be used to take the tracks up to pax standards. The state will need to contribute a very significant percentage of the $ for the day to day operations, just as they do now for both the Vermonter and the existing Ethan Allen service.


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## CHamilton (Sep 1, 2011)

Posted on Facebook:

*UPDATE: ADDITIONAL AMTRAK SERVICE RESTORED*

by Amtrak on Thursday, September 1, 2011 at 2:07pm*Maple Leaf (New York –Toronto) and Empire Service (New York - Albany/Rensselaer) to operate full schedules on Friday; Full Empire Service (New York - Buffalo/Niagara Falls) to operate on Sunday *

Amtrak will operate full schedules for the _Maple Leaf _(New York to and from Toronto) and _Empire Service_ (New York to and from Albany/Rensselaer) starting Friday, Sept. 2. Additional _Empire Service_ will operate (New York to and from Niagara Falls) on Saturday, Sept. 3, with full _Empire Service_ (New York to and from Buffalo/Niagara Falls) starting Sunday, Sept. 4. Please note, Amtrak will operate a modified Sunday schedule due to the Labor Day holiday.

With the operation of these two services, Amtrak has restored most service to much of the East Coast affected by Hurricane Irene.

The only service segment remains suspended is _Northeast Regional_ trains east of Richmond (Staples Mill) to and from Newport News, Va. This service is anticipated to return to full operation on Saturday, Sept. 3.

Passengers who have paid for travel on canceled trains can contact Amtrak to receive refunds without fee or penalty or can rebook for future travel. If tickets have not yet printed, the refund/rebook can be done on Amtrak.com or the free Amtrak iPhone “app.”

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## afigg (Sep 1, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> eagle628 said:
> 
> 
> > The plan has, as far as I know, always been to use federal money for the extension, so I wouldn't think the damage would have a significant impact.
> ...


The HSIPR fiscal year grants will likely continue to require 20% state matching funds. So VT or the railroad would have to put up some state money, unless the Jefford's earmark funding somehow qualifies as matching funds, if there are future rounds of HSIPR grants. It has been posted the VT is planning to apply for a FY2011 TIGER grant for much of the Rutland to Burlington extension costs as the track upgrades will also benefit freight rail, but I don't know what the rules are for state/other source matching funds are for the FY11 TIGER grants.

Way too early to see how the damage from Irene will affect Vermont finances & economy for transportation projects. VT is eligible for various federal emergency funds and there may even be flood insurance for VSR.

There may have been some small luck in that this storm hit before the Vermonter route upgrades were completed. I figure the track construction equipment and crew is on the scene and available. The Vermonter project also should have a 10% to 20% reserve in the budget as that is standard practice. If track upgrade work completed so far has been on or under budget, well they now have a good reason to use up the reserve.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2011)

eagle628 said:


> On a more immediate note, it seems the Ethan Allen resumed today, according to this. Although the article does seem to think Rutland is in Connecticutt, not sure about that.


Rutland got washed OVER the mountains and all the way down into Connecticut?    DANG! :lol: :lol:


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## gatelouse (Sep 1, 2011)

Considering how much flooding occurred at TRE, it's amazing that service was restored so quickly _and_ that Amtrak is running with minimal delays. A colleague rode WAS-BOS on the NE Regional today and arrived on time. Many of Wednesday's Regional trains didn't fare too badly on timekeeping either, all things considered. A great recovery in my book.


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## miley (Sep 3, 2011)

are trains working leaving from south carolina this week?


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## afigg (Sep 3, 2011)

miley said:


> are trains working leaving from south carolina this week?


Check the Amtrak website for the latest service alerts. All normal Amtrak service in the east will be fully restored as of Sunday, September 4. Well, except for the Vermonter which is likely to remain out of service north of Springfield, MA for some time.

However, for SC, there are the previously planned cancelations for the Palmetto due to CSX track work. Amtrak Service Alert:

"Trains 89 and 90: Tuesday through Thursday Only — September 6 - 8, 2011; Monday through Thursday Only — September 12 - 15*, 2011

On the dates shown above beginning September 6 through September 15, Trains 89 and 90 will be canceled, and alternate transportation will not be provided.

*On September 15, Train 89 will make all scheduled stops from New York to Dillon, but will not operate from Dillon to Savannah."


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