# If a Big If Oscar Munoz Ran Amtrak - Hypothetical



## seat38a (Nov 8, 2019)

It's a given that the vast majority on here despise Anderson. Does anyone think Oscar Munoz would do a better job if he ran Amtrak? He is a former president of CSX before becoming CEO of United so no one can accuse him of not knowing anything about the railroad. Bringing on knowledge from both the railroads and the airlines.


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## LookingGlassTie (Nov 8, 2019)

Hard to say at this point, because even though Munoz has railroad experience, he'll pretty much be in the same boat as Anderson is. That is, doing what the government has mandated. Not saying that he wouldn't have SOME latitude, but I don't think his management of Amtrak would be VASTLY different from Anderson's.

Could be better or could be worse, we just don't know..........


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## dogbert617 (Nov 8, 2019)

From what I've heard about Oscar Munoz, ABSOLUTELY NOT do I think there's any chance he'd be better vs. Richard Anderson. To me, he strikes me as a guy who's very similar to Anderson, IF anything. Also if you google past news with United Airlines, a lot of bad incidents that United Airlines should've prevented but didn't, have occurred under Munoz's time as CEO of that airline. And for whatever reason to me, United(yes, I don't give a f if you are based in Chicago.....) is my least favorite airline I've flown on by far.

Two years ago, while for some it may be weirdly easy to forget things, but to me I'll never forget how wrong this incident was that United allowed to occur just before takeoff of a flight from Chicago to Louisville!

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ited-offers-deepest-apology-for-violent-video

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ragged-passenger-united-ceo-defends-his-crew/

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/04/united-airlines-oscar-munoz

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/united-airlines-customer-jimmy-kimmel-conan-obrien (this article shows how late night talk shows parodied Munoz's initial tone deaf response to this incident, especially Jimmy Kimmel)

https://twitter.com/jimmykimmel/status/851772814965133316?lang=en (speaking of Jimmy Kimmel, this clip is absolutely funny as hell, his monologue against United Airlines. if you have LESS free time, fast forward in this video to just the part between 4:13 to 4:46 in the video(WARNING it uses vulgar language, but it is hilarious as heck), for a hilarious United Airlines 'Capiche?' safety video!. though to me, I loved finding and listening to this entire clip, and thanks to Jimmy Kimmel's Twitter account for preserving this video, since I weirdly couldn't find it on Youtube)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/united...nse-says-passenger-was-belligerent-1491921299 (never mind I know historically I've often had issues reading stories on WSJ's website due to paywalls, but VERY ODDLY enough today, I got this story to fully load up on my computer without any issues. a side note if you have the Google Chrome browser, I've often successfully used Incognito Mode to get around paywalls, in case one comes up when you try to get this link to load on WSJ's website. or try copying and pasting this link into http://web.archive.org/ , as that also has sometimes worked to successfully get around a paywall. at least whenever Web Archive remembered to take a screenshot of that page an article was on, before it disappeared for good)

And here's a different weird story about United flying policies that occurred while Munoz(I assume he's still CEO as of now? correct me if wrong) led United, 2 young women who were stupidly kicked off of a United flight going out of Newark, NJ, all because they both were wearing leggings. What the heck?!?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...d-bans-girls-from-flight-for-wearing-leggings


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## LookingGlassTie (Nov 8, 2019)

Here's another article regarding the leggings incident:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...nes-leggings-incident/6uVTCuQKAiP61KTn5wasKI/

Seems that the flight in question was from Denver to Minneapolis, but the article doesn't clarify whether that flight stopped over in Newark, NJ or not.


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## blueman271 (Nov 8, 2019)

I don’t understand the fascination with getting airline executives to run Amtrak. But since it’s a thing why not just go for the gusto and hire the worst of the worst, Jeff Smisek.


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## jis (Nov 9, 2019)

Don’t overlook Tilton of United if service cut is what you are looking for!

Munoz actually got an unmitigated disaster handed to him by Smisek and he has managed to recreate a credible airline with consistently improving service from it. It still has ways to go in improvement, but by most accounts it is now better than American by a long shot. Smisek had managed to drag it down to the worst, but then I suppose Parker helped fix that problem a bit too. [emoji1]

Coming to think of it, it was a joint effort by Tilton at United and Smisek at Continental, until finally Smisek got pitched out due to some hanky-panky that he did with Chris Christie appointed Commissioner at PANYNJ. Remember, it was Smisek that ended food in domestic Y at Continental to bring it in line with Tilton's United to make it easier to merge. Surprisingly, upon Smisek's departure, Munoz (who was already on the Board, and was then Chairman of CSX as I seem to recall) was brought in and had an immediate heart attack and a Heart Transplant Surgery within several months of his appointment. So in effect he was out for 6 month and a temporary management structure operated United for the duration. He returned to work initially part time in March 2016.

Anyway, the Dr. Dao incident caused a complete change in procedures for last minute bumping of passengers by staff needed for future flights. This practice was stopped, and now it requires early notice for operations to lay claim on a seat on a plane involving bumping of passengers, and removing a passenger already occupying a seat is no longer part of the accepted procedure. This sometimes causes downline delay or cancellation of flights, but that is now an accepted cost of being customer friendly towards those who are already on a plane. Apparently this practice was quite prevalent on United Express contractor's flights, and not so much on main line.

The actual rough handling of the passenger was carried out by three Chicago Aviation Department police officers, one of whom was suspended as a result of the incident.


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## seat38a (Nov 9, 2019)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Hard to say at this point, because even though Munoz has railroad experience, he'll pretty much be in the same boat as Anderson is. That is, doing what the government has mandated. Not saying that he wouldn't have SOME latitude, but I don't think his management of Amtrak would be VASTLY different from Anderson's.
> 
> Could be better or could be worse, we just don't know..........


So it really doesn't matter who runs Amtrak then.


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## seat38a (Nov 9, 2019)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Here's another article regarding the leggings incident:
> 
> https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...nes-leggings-incident/6uVTCuQKAiP61KTn5wasKI/
> 
> Seems that the flight in question was from Denver to Minneapolis, but the article doesn't clarify whether that flight stopped over in Newark, NJ or not.


They were traveling for free on passes. There's been a dress code at the airlines for traveling on passes since the DAWN of flying. Suits and ties were even a requirement at one point. It has always been the responsibility of the employee giving out passes to make sure that their friends or family understood the rules or the employee in question could loose their pass privalleges. When I worked at FedEx, we had a dress code even for jump seating in a cargo plane. There's nothing new here other than making headlines under Oscar's watch.


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## railiner (Nov 9, 2019)

seat38a said:


> They were traveling for free on passes. There's been a dress code at the airlines for traveling on passes since the DAWN of flying. Suits and ties were even a requirement at one point. It has always been the responsibility of the employee giving out passes to make sure that their friends or family understood the rules or the employee in question could loose their pass privalleges. When I worked at FedEx, we had a dress code even for jump seating in a cargo plane. There's nothing new here other than making headlines under Oscar's watch.


Agreed. It is funny how the non-revenue, space available pass travel dress code has changed since I started having those privileges. Basically, a reflection of public dress in general. At one time, you had to have a coat and tie, if you hoped to get into F class. No jeans, or athletic or open toed shoes. Now, you can wear pretty much whatever you wish, except for "provocative", or soiled or torn clothing. They actually would rather you wouldn't wear business attire, on a flight with mostly all leisure traveler's...
The idea is to not "stand out" from other's, and call attention to yourself, as a pass traveler.


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## LookingGlassTie (Nov 9, 2019)

seat38a said:


> So it really doesn't matter who runs Amtrak then.



From my perspective, I don't really know how much it matters, because I became interested in Amtrak just before Anderson became CEO. Thus, I didn't really follow how the railroad was run under his predecessors.


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## neroden (Nov 11, 2019)

What Amtrak really needs is someone who's willing to spend the time, effort, and money to fix its totally bogus accounting system.

It's impossible to get real sustained support from state governments or Congress when you're known for lying about your accounting, which Amtrak is.

I'm not sure who would be a good CEO for this job. Someone with an audit background, maybe.


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## adamj023 (Nov 12, 2019)

seat38a said:


> It's a given that the vast majority on here despise Anderson. Does anyone think Oscar Munoz would do a better job if he ran Amtrak? He is a former president of CSX before becoming CEO of United so no one can accuse him of not knowing anything about the railroad. Bringing on knowledge from both the railroads and the airlines.



Wick Moorman before Anderson was in charge, was at Norfork Southern and then Amtrak. Oscar Munoz is not going to replace Anderson. 

I do not know how long Anderson will stay and who will be his successor but I would assume that is a politically related matter as the outcome of the elections will determine Amtrak’s future direction. 

i don’t expect any significant changes in Amtrak for now.


seat38a said:


> It's a given that the vast majority on here despise Anderson. Does anyone think Oscar Munoz would do a better job if he ran Amtrak? He is a former president of CSX before becoming CEO of United so no one can accuse him of not knowing anything about the railroad. Bringing on knowledge from both the railroads and the airlines.


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## jis (Nov 12, 2019)

I agree. Munoz has absolutely no reason to leave United at this time or in the near future. Kirby (ex-American) and Munoz (ex-CSX, AT&T) make a good team as Chairman and CEO at United.

I also agree that it is quite unlikely that there will be any major change at Amtrak before the 2020 elections. Although it is also true that the Reauthorization Bill will happen before the 2020 election since it needs to be in place for enabling collection of the Federal Gas Tax. I wonder if they can just do a sort of a CR on the Authorization given the turmoil that Congress and the Administration will be in under the most able leadership of the country.


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## seat38a (Dec 5, 2019)

Well Munoz is leaving next year and Kirby is taking over at United. Looks like Munoz is available now.


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## jis (Dec 5, 2019)

Interesting. They almost did a swap. Munoz goes from CEO to Executive Chairman and Kirby goes from President to CEO. Doesn't necessarily mean Munoz is any more available than Kirby was before this though.  It would really be upto Munoz to quit as Executive Chairman before he becomes really available to become CEO of anything else.

It is interesting to read the glowing praise of Oscar while acknowledging the slip up during the Dr. Dao affair, on airliners.net. The consensus seems to be that Oscar has played a seminal role in turning around United's culture and put it on the right path to improvement. My experience causes me to concurs with that assessment, but as usual YMMV. Oscar's legacy though will be Polaris, 77Ws and the new livery, in addition to the sea change in culture.


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## seat38a (Dec 5, 2019)

jis said:


> Interesting. They almost did a swap. Munoz goes from CEO to Executive Chairman and Kirby goes from President to CEO. Doesn't necessarily mean Munoz is any more available than Kirby was before this though.  It would really be upto Munoz to quit as Executive Chairman before he becomes really available to become CEO of anything else.
> 
> It is interesting to read the glowing praise of Oscar while acknowledging the slip up during the Dr. Dao affair, on airliners.net. The consensus seems to be that Oscar has played a seminal role in turning around United's culture and put it on the right path to improvement. My experience causes me to concurs with that assessment, but as usual YMMV. Oscar's legacy though will be Polaris, 77Ws and the new livery, in addition to the sea change in culture.


After years of Jeff Smisek, I think even Doug Parker would have been welcome at United.


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## jis (Dec 5, 2019)

seat38a said:


> After years of Jeff Smisek, I think even Doug Parker would have been welcome at United.


Smisek and Parker are peas of the same pod. Hard to tell if Parker would have been better or worse. My guess is probably worse. But then again Smisek was all told probably better than Tilton whose behavior at United was similar to Anderson's behavior at Amtrak.  On the Continental side it was a huge step down from Bethune to Smisek. Smisek completely trashed on board service in preparation to merge with United.


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## seat38a (Dec 7, 2019)

jis said:


> Smisek and Parker are peas of the same pod. Hard to tell if Parker would have been better or worse. My guess is probably worse. But then again Smisek was all told probably better than Tilton whose behavior at United was similar to Anderson's behavior at Amtrak.  On the Continental side it was a huge step down from Bethune to Smisek. Smisek completely trashed on board service in preparation to merge with United.


Whats your opinion on Kirby? Its funny how the same people who whined that Oscar must go after the Dao incident are now all upset Oscar is going and Kirby is taking over.


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## jis (Dec 7, 2019)

Kirby so far has been doing very well. I understand that he has been gradually taking over the day to day running of United for quite a while now. The changes in title is just making the formal changes to match the evolving actuality.

I actually don’t see too many people in the know complaining about much, since they have known that this was the plan for a while.

Incidentally, Oscar did get marginally punished for the Dao incident in not getting handed the President position. But that worked out better at the end of the day for all at United.


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