# Countdown to Boardman's departure



## NE933 (Jun 5, 2016)

So, we have a little less than 4 long months to go before he retires, when we (I hope) can breathe a collective sigh from his guard over a state at Amtrak that is a mess. If there can be some real leadership to step in, something that resembles promise can be over the horizon. Until then, I'll have to rely on my meds until the end of September, and pray as well.


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## Triley (Jun 5, 2016)

Have we all forgotten the good that he has done, with the resources he's been given?


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## ScouseAndy (Jun 5, 2016)

Have you ever heard the phase "better the devil you know"? The next guy (or lady) could be far far worse


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## jis (Jun 5, 2016)

ScouseAndy said:


> Have you ever heard the phase "better the devil you know"? The next guy (or lady) could be far far worse


That is a very good point worth keeping in mind. 
I also agree with Triley that Boardman has managed to do quite a bit of good with limited resources and has managed to place Amtrak in a financially more stable situation than it has almost ever been. Yeah there are things that are worthy of criticism that he has done. But all in all it is probably slightly to moderately on the positive side in a balanced assessment of his tenure.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 5, 2016)

I agree that overall Joe will be remembered as among Amtrak's best Presidents, but the last couple years has tarnished his legacy since he made foolish promises about doing away with food and beverage losses to the Mica Managers on the Hill, and let the Bean Counters run amok with their nickel and dime cuts on the LD Trains!

Enjoy your retirement Joe, you've earned it!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jun 5, 2016)

Any rumors as to who the next president will be?


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## neroden (Jun 5, 2016)

As long as the next Amtrak President has a better record than Tom Downs, I'll be happy.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 6, 2016)

Triley said:


> Have we all forgotten the good that he has done, with the resources he's been given?


Forgotten what, exactly? What precisely has he done that couldn't have happened without him? Boardman's legacy comes up on AU rather frequently but I'm still waiting for some examples of whatever it is he has specifically accomplished.


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## Thirdrail7 (Jun 6, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > Have we all forgotten the good that he has done, with the resources he's been given?
> ...



There's a difference between what COULD'VE happened and what WOULD'VE happened. Anyone that has been in his position COULD'VE made a stink and attempted to order equipment. Boardman DID order equipment. Previous presidents COULD'VE have settled contracts. Boardman DID settle contracts (much to the chagrin of certain unions, I'd bet). While other presidents COULD'VE fought for more service, Boardman at least fought to protect existing service.

We'll never know what others would have actually done. Would they have taken loans and ordered new electrics or would they have followed the IGs thought process and just modified and/or rebuilt the existing fleet? Would other CEOs have used the grants to rebuild wrecked cars and tackle the infrastructure or use the money to open up some line, that would ultimately crash and burn? Previous CEOs didn't make a concentrated effort to at least attempt to recover the costs associated with grade crossing incidents, like Boardman, but they could have.

He established priorities and pushed his agenda. The agenda of someone else might not have been for new equipment, bike transportation, e-ticketing, or infrastructure repair. I've seen more track work since he took over than ever. That is because instead of deferring maintenance to save money like previous administrations, he prioritized the work. Perhaps another CEO wouldn't have done this, but we know Boardman did.

Then again, we may have better food on the train without him. We could have used a few less miles of concrete ties and all trains equipped with dining cars could have French Toast.

Only time will tell if some of his decisions helped or hurt Amtrak and once we see what the next group does when they arrive, we'll know how well (or) badly Boardman performed.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 6, 2016)

Thirdrail7--

I agree with your assessment. I think we have seen two Joe Boardmans--the one who started his job with energy and a good attitude and did try to do some good, and the one we have now, who has been beaten down by the job and micromanaged by Congress and has a classic case of burnout.


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## jis (Jun 6, 2016)

Thirdrail, a very good and considered response. I agree with it entirely. In addition I think he made a concerted effort to put Amtrak's financial house in order and succeeded to a large extent given the constraints he is working under.


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## WoodyinNYC (Jun 6, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> ... we have seen two Joe Boardmans--the one who started his job with energy and a good attitude and did try to do some good, and the one we have now, who has been beaten down ... and micromanaged by Congress and has a classic case of burnout.


... Maybe we have seen two Joe Boardmans--the one who started his job backed by a supportive Congress that voted to put $12 Billion into higher speed passenger rail, and the one we have now, beaten down by a different Congress that has tried to block his efforts at almost every turn.

Everything that Thirdrail7 said. And more.

Will Boardman be remembered as the Amtrak president who got about 90 wrecks rehabbed and put to work,

who placed the order for 130 Viewliner IIs,

who ordered 70 electric locomotives,

whose team helped develop the specs for new generations of diesel locomotives and passenger cars both single-level and bi-level, ready if a different Congress votes to buy needed equipment,

who worked with Virginia to extend service on two new and popular routes,

who worked with Michigan, Illinois, Washington State, North Carolina, New York and Connecticut to upgrade routes where Amtrak will run much faster trains starting next year,

who has consistently pushed for a State of Good Repair on the NEC along with a bunch of projects to make it faster (campaigning for new bridges in Connecticut, New Jersey and Maryland, for new tunnels in Baltimore and under the Hudson, undercutting to improve the roadbed and new catenary to improve speeds and reliability, etc.),

who has brought the order for new Acelas to this:far from announcement of the contract,

who worked so hard to improve on time performance and farebox recovery,

who has come farther toward restoring Gulf Coast service than we dared hope,

who presided over almost 8 years without any LD trains discontinued (has Amtrak EVER had 8 years straight with no such cutbacks?)

Boardman's biggest disappointments seem well beyond his control:

the cancellations of major corridor expansions in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Florida,

the CAF Viewliner II order so much delayed,

the Nippon Sharyo bi-levels order so much delayed -- postponing the date when Amtrak gets back 80 or 90 Horizons for use elsewhere,

the failure to interest Congress in modernizing, much less expanding, the fleet of equipment.

Probably Boardman's greatest disappointment was the derailment and fatal crash in Philadelphia a year ago, after he'd spent his years emphasizing safety.

Nonetheless, all in all, a record he can be proud of and we should be grateful for.

A few months ago a couple of leaders of the House sent a letter to Amtrak's Board asking that the next president be someone with the vision to transform the company. Boardman had the vision to transform Amtrak, but due to Congress crazies he didn't have the budget to do it.

I fear the House leaders' idea of a transformation of Amtrak is to swing the bloody axe again, chopping off the _Sunset Ltd_ and the _California Zephyr_ to start, then the loss of their connecting passengers will weaken the _Coast Starlight_, the trains at the Chicago hub like the _Cardinal_, and the _Texas Eagle_ at San Antonio. So where will the bloody axe chop next?

I dread that, depending on the election in November, we'll look back at Joe Boardman's term as Amtrak's Golden Age.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 6, 2016)

WoodyinNYC--

A great summary--thank you! (By the way, what were the two Virginia routes? I'm assuming NEC to Lynchburg was one, but can't remember the other one.)

When I mentioned burnout, it occurred to me that, when I was teaching, my fellow teachers who were exhibiting burnout were the ones who had the reputation for having been very good at one time. Then they got discouraged, and the burnout showed up, slowly at first, then obvious to everyone. Your summary makes me think that Boardman fits this category.


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## Ryan (Jun 6, 2016)

Norfolk is the other Virginia route.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 6, 2016)

Oh, of course--I forgot Norfolk. Thanks, Ryan.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jun 6, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> I fear the House leaders' idea of a transformation of Amtrak is to swing the bloody axe again, chopping off the _Sunset Ltd_ and the _California Zephyr_ to start, then the loss of their connecting passengers will weaken the _Coast Starlight_, the trains at the Chicago hub like the _Cardinal_, and the _Texas Eagle_ at San Antonio. So where will the bloody axe chop next?


Isn't the CZ getting an increase in ridership due to cut off cars in Reno? I would want to see if that helps long term. Plus, how would you serve Denver and Salt Lake City without the CZ?

As for the SL, hopefully they can recover from the flooding down there which has caused a lot of problems. They absolutely have to find a way to keep Houston in the Amtrak system somehow.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 6, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> Will Boardman be remembered as the Amtrak president who got about 90 wrecks rehabbed and put to work
> 
> who placed the order for 130 Viewliner IIs,
> 
> who ordered 70 electric locomotives


I honestly thought that was more on Obama for pushing through additional funding rather than on Boardman for spending it.



WoodyinNYC said:


> whose team helped develop the specs for new generations of diesel locomotives and passenger cars both single-level and bi-level, ready if a different Congress votes to buy needed equipment,


The industrialized world already had established specs for modern diesel locomotives and passenger cars that seem to work fine everywhere else. Developing one-off American variants with special change orders just for Amtrak seems like a questionable thing for which to take credit.



WoodyinNYC said:


> who worked with Virginia to extend service on two new and popular routes,
> 
> who worked with Michigan, Illinois, Washington State, North Carolina, New York and Connecticut to upgrade routes where Amtrak will run much faster trains starting next year,
> 
> who has consistently pushed for a State of Good Repair on the NEC along with a bunch of projects to make it faster (campaigning for new bridges in Connecticut, New Jersey and Maryland, for new tunnels in Baltimore and under the Hudson, undercutting to improve the roadbed and new catenary to improve speeds and reliability, etc.),


Perhaps PTC might have been a better focus. Hindsight is 2020 but the improved safety of PTC has been well understood for decades now. It's not perfect obviously, but a major wreck with numerous fatalities and life altering injuries can't be undone by adding a few more MPH here and there. Here on AU we're apt to blame the media for calling Amtrak unsafe but honestly I think Amtrak brought this on themselves by having a solution that hadn't been fully implemented.



WoodyinNYC said:


> who has brought the order for new Acelas to this:far from announcement of the contract,


Out of everything with which Amtrak is involved the absolute last thing I'd ever worry about is continued funding for premium services along the NEC.



WoodyinNYC said:


> who worked so hard to improve on time performance and farebox recovery,


Can you elaborate on whatever it is Boardman himself did to improve on-time performance, keeping in mind that he's also presided over some of the biggest operational meltdowns in Amtrak's history.



WoodyinNYC said:


> who has come farther toward restoring Gulf Coast service than we dared hope,


Farther than we dared hope? From what I could see thousands of people dared to hope for an actual service with an actual train running an actual schedule.



WoodyinNYC said:


> who presided over almost 8 years without any LD trains discontinued (has Amtrak EVER had 8 years straight with no such cutbacks?)


Would Boardman be able to unilaterally discontinue a given LD route even if he wanted to?



WoodyinNYC said:


> Boardman's biggest disappointments seem well beyond his control:
> 
> the cancellations of major corridor expansions in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Florida,
> 
> ...


Why do you believe that none of these are within Boardman's control to improve or correct?



WoodyinNYC said:


> Probably Boardman's greatest disappointment was the derailment and fatal crash in Philadelphia a year ago, after he'd spent his years emphasizing safety.


Or maybe it simply put the lie to his previous claims of being safety focused. Honestly Amtrak's safety culture sounds like it suffers from a severe case of casual cowboy logic at the moment.



WoodyinNYC said:


> Nonetheless, all in all, a record he can be proud of and we should be grateful for.


We should be grateful? I ride Amtrak less today than at virtually any time in the last ten years. The reduced amenities and deteriorating service standards coupled with even worse scheduling are running me off. That's not something for which I feel the need to be grateful.


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## Triley (Jun 6, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> WoodyinNYC--
> 
> A great summary--thank you! (By the way, what were the two Virginia routes? I'm assuming NEC to Lynchburg was one, but can't remember the other one.)


I had heard on Facebook that platform work is starting (or _has_ started) in Roanoke as well, in preparation for that expansion. They've authorized the plans for sure, but this link is all I had time to find at the moment.

http://wsls.com/2016/03/21/new-train-station-coming-to-roanoke/


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jun 6, 2016)

WoodyinNYC said:


> who presided over almost 8 years without any LD trains discontinued (has Amtrak EVER had 8 years straight with no such cutbacks?)


SL East/Three Rivers/truncating Palmetto was 2005 so it's been 11 years running now. I believe between 1981 and 1994 there was nothing cut although there were reroutes of the BL/CL around 1990 away from Ft. Wayne.

To me the better questions would be either a) When will they bring back something they cut? b) ) When will they start a new one? You can say if nothing is added and nothing is cut it's as good as it was but you can also say it's as bad as it was. When was the last time Amtrak added a LD train or improved service on one? The last LD train I know that was started that still exists today is the Capitol Limited but you can argue that was just a reroute or replacement for the Broadway so that doesn't really count as improving the LD system meaningfully.

I don't believe LD travel is dead. Sure more people travel from New York to Philly than to Chicago or Florida but there's still quite a significant ridership long distance as well.


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## Acela150 (Jun 7, 2016)

I honestly have mixed opinions of Joe. Even now having worked with some Amtrak employees engineers and conductors. More so Engineers during qualifying runs.

But I think that he has had enough of the job. He has zero left in the tank and right now, it's nothing but serious fumes. I have talked to many Members off forum and through PM on their opinion of Joe.

One thing another member and I agree on is that he is simply spent and that instead of saying to Moron Hill "NO THIS IS WHAT WE NEED"! It was simply, ok you want a reduction in food cost? Let me cut a diner.

I think that once 188 happened he knew he would never hear the end of issues relating to it. Part of the job is to go to the Capitol and tell them "Hey we need this funded and now!". CNN took a "tour" of the Hudson River tubes and how they are falling apart.. He goes to CNN to make it known to the public. Capitol Hill knows but he's not making it an issue to be addressed as far as I'm concerned.

Now as far as what I've seen from Employees. When 188 happened Joe was noticeably saddened. That was one thing I noticed about him during the press conferences he was at. Talking to employees since the beginning of the year and even more so after the incident with 89, the Employee Morale is low and some have said it's an all time low. Truthfully I'd believe it. When the Unions sent the letter to Boardman regarding the company practices and close call reporting and some other serious things. It brought some things to light to me that showed to me he needs to be replaced.

Where he has my support. He secured 2 major equipment orders in his tenure. 1 being the ACS project which is almost complete. My opinion having ridden in the cab of these units. They are a great piece of equipment that Siemens did a wonderful job on and Amtrak should be proud of this unit. While their are always teething issues, I hope that the ACS units turn out to be just as reliable as the GG1 and AEM-7's.

He also got eTicketing to go systemwide without major issues. From the conductors I've talked to they love the iPhone Scanner. Of course their are some of the older guys who couldn't get use to it without issue simply cause they had the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" opinion.

25% of New Hires are Vets!! I respect that... I always feel that the Vets should get a decent paying job or career. But to the flip side of that if you have applicants that have T&E experience and the job for grabs is T&E and you have 2 jobs open give one to the T&E applicant and the other to the Vet. I have heard that to pass Amtrak Training's for Conductor, you must know your signals Verbatim. If you hire a T&E employee who worked for a Class I they can teach non railroaders coming in the ropes. Signals aren't easy. But I can almost repeat all NORAC signals verbatim.

I think that Amtrak looking for New Hires should have more open houses. And not just for the vets. But extend invitations to the following categories of new hires, "Off the Street" "VETS" "External T&E Employees" "Internal employees". As related to this Amtrak in the past 9 months had 2 "Online Career Fairs" where one could talk to a recruiter for a few minutes. I'd like to see more of those and more of an open house.

I honestly feel like we could be walking into another Warrington-Gunn situation. I hope that whoever is the successor brings back credibility to Amtrak.

I did hear that Joe wanted a hand in picking his successor. IINM the board has told him that will not happen.

Now I'll wait till he actually is out to give a final grade of Joe.

FTR... I wrote this entire post while under the extreme influence of Ambien.. I'll come back to check this post to see if anything is messed up with it in the morning. Night 

Edit: While I did mention I had taken Ambien, which was true.. I don't remember making this post.


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## WoodyinNYC (Jun 7, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> WoodyinNYC said:
> 
> 
> > I fear the House leaders' idea ... is to swing the bloody axe again, chopping off the _Sunset Ltd_ and the _California Zephyr_ to start, then the loss of their connecting passengers will weaken the _Coast Starlight_, the trains at the Chicago hub like the _Cardinal_, and the _Texas Eagle_ at San Antonio. So where will the bloody axe chop next?
> ...


I'm not suggesting that the _Sunset_ or the _Zephyr_ should be cut. (Someone else around here campaigns against certain trains, but not me.)

I am saying that Amtrak's haters come up with hit lists from time to time. The _Sunset_ is usually on these lists. Because of its 3-days-a-week schedule, it has higher costs and low ridership. It ends up with the largest (loss) per passenger. The _Zephyr_ makes the lists because its total operating loss is larger than any other LD train.

I'd keep those trains, and invest to improve them. But the haters would chop them with a bloody axe.


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## neroden (Jun 7, 2016)

I'll repeat that the scenario I want to avoid is a Tom Downs (career history of massive budget overruns and incomplete projects). That's what Amtrak needs to avoid right now. Anything else Amtrak can probably survive...


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## dlagrua (Jun 7, 2016)

Joe Boardman impressed me as another Bush conservative political hack that always did everything that was best for his career. He will best be remembered for his quote "we will make the dining cars profitable" and by sleeper passengers that pay more and no longer see a newspaper, ice, dinner chocolates, a couple of flowers on the table, and a reduced food menu. Twenty cent bottles of water are now rationed out. He was quick to capitulate to congress and lied that he could make the dining cars profitable; a feat that has never been done in the history of railroading! What he should have said is how many federal highways do we have that are making money? Instead of challenging, he surrendered. Now that Joe Boardman is riding it out to retirement, he leaves the mess that he made to the next guy. Hopefully the new appointee will have a better idea how to run Amtrak.


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## Palmetto (Jun 7, 2016)

Challenging the establishment would put his career in jeopardy, don't you think? That's just the way it is these days. He's sorta in the same boat as the career politicians are these days in the public's mind's eye: personae non gratae.


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## jis (Jun 7, 2016)

People have unrealistic romantic ideas about what an Amtrak CEO can do. Even Claytor was not able to really do what some were expecting of Boardman, and the one case of outright defiance of Congress and the Board that is known, actually got unceremoniously dumped by the wayside. So the question to ponder is, is it better to stick around and do the best you can? Or is it better to make such a nuisance of yourself that you are let go and then can have zero influence on what happens next.

A short story from India in the 70s. The Indian Railways is ostensibly run by the Railway Board, the Chairman of which is a Secretary in the Government of India reporting to the Railway Minister, and the one who sort of runs the entire edifice. One Chair decided in the '70s that the Minister was an idiot and he was going to single handedly fix the railways.So without approval from the Minister he went off and published a new timetable for trains and set off in his Saloon to make it happen. Within a few days he found that the new timetable had been rescinded, there was mysteriously no locomotive available to hook his Saloon upto any train, and he was no longer anything on the Railway Board, let alone a Chair.

Moral of the story is, no matter what fancy title you have, a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat, and lives or dies by code of bureaucrats. If you deviate too much you have to go and look for a different job. Amtrak's CEO is a bureaucrat in the US Federal Government structure, and that is not going to change until the chartering articles of Amtrak are modified drastically. The SCOTUS has even made it clear that the appointment of the CEO and Board Members must follow established government bureaucratic procedures. So no amount of moaning is going to make an iota of difference. you can take a pick between relatively mediocre or completely hopeless, by the nature of the being.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jun 7, 2016)

Reason #17 to cheer for privately funded rail in the US to succeed instead of dealing with bureaucrats.


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## Anderson (Jun 7, 2016)

With all of that being said, I think there's a lot of frustration directed at some of the impractical, bordering on false, promises that were made (e.g. food service). It is one thing to "go off and do your own thing"; it's another to more or less lie to your nominal bosses.


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## dlagrua (Jun 7, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Reason #17 to cheer for privately funded rail in the US to succeed instead of dealing with bureaucrats.


First off must agree with JIS on the stranglehold that the establishment has on Amtrak and the bureaucracy that governs it. He's right, it won't change but my point was that Boardman made promises that he knew that he could not possibly keep. Did he stress the importance of the service to the American people well enough to congress? Perhaps without high priced lobbyists that take their marching orders from corporate America and support the politicians, Amtrak will always have limited influence in Washington.

While one can believe in fair enterprise as a solution, the private railroad companies have shown little interest in getting back into the passenger rail transportation business. Where they have, Iowa Pacific and the Burlington div of BNSF now have routes. (both subsidized though).

Boardman is now a lame duck, and will be gone by the end of the year. A new chairman will be appointed by the next president and lets hope that he has better solutions than Boardman did. IMO, Boardman wasn't bad but he wasn't that good. .


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## jis (Jun 7, 2016)

That is the gist of my point. Given the way these top level bureaucrats are hemmed in they cannot really be "good" unless they are exceptionally extraordinary - something that you don;t come across often on a bureaucrat's salary.. They can vary between mediocre and bad.

Now the following is not an attempt to defend what Boardman or Warrington or whoever else did, but an attempt to dig down to see what human motivations may have caused certain actions to unfold, without assigning any value judgement to it.

I do not condone people knowingly lying, and I am not sure that Boardman necessarily lied when he said that he would remove losses on food service. His actions have shown that he was willing to take a crack at it to quite an extent (which if you ask me is the scarier part) Things are typically not that black and white. I also don't know what the exact quid pro quo was for that statement. If it was something like "OK we'll let you run the Diners for now if you promise to reduce the losses to zero in five years". When put on the spot like that (and trust me politicians and top managers are masters at that sort of thing) would you say that you won't do it and thus have all Diner service be shut down immediately. Or resign and leave and leave it upto some other sap to deal with it? Or make some ambiguous promise to keep things going? Simply dropping the ball - How would that help anyone?

Under similar duress Warrington apparently also managed to promise to reduce all Amtrak losses to zero in x number of years, supposedly when the choice was something like shutting half the system down immediately too.

Sometimes it may be worth making a tall but ambiguous promise to not lose everything at a given point in time. Things are not as black and white as we who have not experienced such hard nosed arm twisting think they are or ought to be.

Technically, the new Chairman could be appointed by this President. There is precedent for such, and Amtrak is not so major an issue that the new President immediately changes the Chairman either as we have seen in the past.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 7, 2016)

Oops, duplicate post!


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 7, 2016)

Jis: are you sure you didn't spend a few years in Sodom and Gomorrah on the Potomac?

You've really nailed it in your synopsis of the Dilemma that faces any Amtrak CEO!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 7, 2016)

After reading every post in this thread it sounds like the jury is still out. Which makes sense since Boardman hasn't even left office yet. It should be interesting to see what his successor has to say about Amtrak's state of affairs once Boardman is gone.


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## jis (Jun 7, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Jis: are you sure you didn't spend a few years in Sodom and Gomorrah on the Potomac?
> 
> You've really nailed it in your synopsis of the Dilemma that faces any Amtrak CEO!


This is actually an evidence of sorts that Sodom and Gomorrah is not just on the Potomac and not just in Government either. The large private enterprises are often no better.


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## Eric S (Jun 7, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> While one can believe in fair enterprise as a solution, the private railroad companies have shown little interest in getting back into the passenger rail transportation business. Where they have, Iowa Pacific and the Burlington div of BNSF now have routes. (both subsidized though).


What "Burlington div of BNSF" are you referring to?


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## jis (Jun 7, 2016)

I think he is talking about Metra's Burlington Route to Aurora if I am not mistaken.


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## Eric S (Jun 7, 2016)

I sort of guessed as much, but don't really see how that Metra line is related to privatized intercity passenger rail.


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## jis (Jun 8, 2016)

Eric S said:


> I sort of guessed as much, but don't really see how that Metra line is related to privatized intercity passenger rail.


It is not. Neither is Hoosier State. Both are operating contracts for certain aspects of a passenger service. The Metra contract isa actually a much more all encompassing one with BNSF than the Hoosier State is with InDOT.

Private scheduled operations are for example Saratoga and North Creek or Grand Canyon Railway, and soon to start Brightline in Florida.


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## Eric S (Jun 8, 2016)

jis said:


> Eric S said:
> 
> 
> > I sort of guessed as much, but don't really see how that Metra line is related to privatized intercity passenger rail.
> ...


Right. And good point about Iowa Pacific/Hoosier State.

And Metra BNSF (as well as Metra UP) is not an example of a private railroad getting back into passenger business either.


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## B757Guy (Jun 8, 2016)

Can anyone really fix Amtrak, given the poor funding and overall disdain passenger rail seems to have in government? It's a damn shame, but not sure anyone can make the railroad better


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## Hal (Jun 8, 2016)

B757Guy said:


> Can anyone really fix Amtrak, given the poor funding and overall disdain passenger rail seems to have in government? It's a damn shame, but not sure anyone can make the railroad better


No, they can't really fix it with the poor funding but they can make the railroad worse. 
Whoever it will be has to carry out the policies of the Amtrak Board of Directors. Or be out of a job. Funding and politics will limit that person no matter how wonderful a manager or person they may or may not be.


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## Woodcut60 (Jun 9, 2016)

@Thirdrail7 and WoodyinNYC: Great summaries and assessments. I learned a lot! I think given the resources and a lukewarm, reluctant Congress he's done a nice job.


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## afigg (Jul 24, 2016)

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine posted a column on July 22 with his speculation and opinions on who might replace Boardman: Amtrak: Connect the dots. He may or may not know anything, but simply had a column he has to fill with something. Anyway, something for discussion on Boardman's possible replacement. Starting excerpt:



> Any time now, Amtrak’s directors will elect a new president and chief executive, to replace Joe Boardman, who is retiring. I’ve talked to people who have been approached by the executive recruiting firm looking for this person. The recruiter is telling people Amtrak wants an experienced railroad manager in the top job.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 25, 2016)

Interesting, thanks for posting!

Since this job is a political appointment one would think that President Obama and Amtrak Joe Biden would want to fill the slot with their person,( although technically the Board will appoint the new CEO) not leave it to the next occupant of the White House, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Genghis Trump.

I can think of several persons that would make excellent Amtrak CEOs but they wouldn't consider this No Win job since they are competent persons and are tired of all the Hate and BS in Washington.

No one in their right mind would want this job, but as they say, there are always hacks that lust after these kind of political jobs, so let's hope we don't get one of these but probably will!


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## dlagrua (Jul 25, 2016)

The question is if any Amtrak president can make strides in improving the service? Amtrak is totally dependent on a congress that calls the shots..


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## Braniff747SP (Jul 25, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> Joe Boardman impressed me as another Bush conservative political hack that always did everything that was best for his career. He will best be remembered for his quote "we will make the dining cars profitable" and by sleeper passengers that pay more and no longer see a newspaper, ice, dinner chocolates, a couple of flowers on the table, and a reduced food menu. Twenty cent bottles of water are now rationed out. He was quick to capitulate to congress and lied that he could make the dining cars profitable; a feat that has never been done in the history of railroading! What he should have said is how many federal highways do we have that are making money? Instead of challenging, he surrendered. Now that Joe Boardman is riding it out to retirement, he leaves the mess that he made to the next guy. Hopefully the new appointee will have a better idea how to run Amtrak.


A better idea how to run the railroad by what, exactly? Making sure that there are dinner chocolates? That's absurd.

I know that people on this board don't like hearing it, but there was--and remains--a distinct need to cut costs at Amtrak if it is to survive.



jis said:


> People have unrealistic romantic ideas about what an Amtrak CEO can do.


Exactly - couldn't have said it better myself.

Boardman, in my view, did the best he could in challenging circumstances. He did come a bit short when it came to advocating for the railroad, I think, from a PR standpoint; at times it felt that Amtrak lacked a visible voice on Capitol Hill.


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Jul 25, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> The question is if any Amtrak president can make strides in improving the service? Amtrak is totally dependent on a congress that calls the shots..


 well, not completely, the states help a little


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Jul 25, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Interesting, thanks for posting!
> 
> Since this job is a political appointment one would think that President Obama and Amtrak Joe Biden would want to fill the slot with their person,( although technically the Board will appoint the new CEO) not leave it to the next occupant of the White House, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Genghis Trump.
> 
> ...


 I would like to be the CEO, for all the train rides, I would be happy to deal with all the BS in WAS, and all the haters. Also, I would say: "a dining car would only be profitable if everyone eats, including all the coach passengers.


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## jis (Jul 25, 2016)

Most fortunately you have no chance of becoming the CEO this time around. You don't really appear to have any clue of what is involved.


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## greatcats (Jul 25, 2016)

Stay in school, Henry. I want you to have a bright future. Please don't become a corporate hack!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 25, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> The question is if any Amtrak president can make strides in improving the service? Amtrak is totally dependent on a congress that calls the shots..


Or POTUS for that matter.



Braniff747SP said:


> I know that people on this board don't like hearing it, but there was--and remains--a distinct need to cut costs at Amtrak if it is to survive.


They (Congress) could've made better choices on the particular cuts they made.

Do you know what they call a group of baboons? A congress!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 25, 2016)

I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.

It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.

And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet.


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## me_little_me (Jul 25, 2016)

Who will be the next Amtrak president? Depends on the November elections

The Donald wins - one of his relatives

Hillary wins - a big donor's relative


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## afigg (Jul 25, 2016)

me_little_me said:


> Who will be the next Amtrak president? Depends on the November elections
> 
> The Donald wins - one of his relatives
> 
> Hillary wins - a big donor's relative


No, it does not work that way for Amtrak. The CEO of Amtrak is a not a political plum job by any means. With Boardman retiring in September, his successor will likely be selected by the Amtrak board soon and would start shortly after Boardman departs. Boardman gave the board and US DOT plenty of advance notice, so they have had time to search for a successor.

Remember, Boardman started as CEO in the last year of the Bush administration after a stint as FRA administrator. The Obama administration and the two Secretaries of Transportation during the Obama never replaced Boardman with their own appointee.


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## dlagrua (Jul 25, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.


The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't. As for rich people eating steaks; rich people do not eat the meals let alone the steaks that Amtrak serves.


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## MikefromCrete (Jul 25, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.
> 
> It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.
> 
> And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet.



Who in the heck is going to ride your precious Philly-Chicago train without some kind of food service?


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## Carolina Special (Jul 25, 2016)

Using only cafe cars on LD trains is not going to work. I may be able to survive on microwaved hot dogs for three days, but the average traveler will not find that acceptable.


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## SarahZ (Jul 25, 2016)

I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.

Woohoo! I had no idea!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 25, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.
> 
> Woohoo! I had no idea!


I eat the steaks because I rarely get out (no $$) to restaurants for steak and I don't cook beef at home. Heck, I rarely cook anything.


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## JayPea (Jul 25, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.
> 
> Woohoo! I had no idea!


Me neither!!!! My bank account wouldn't agree, but, hey, someone on this forum said it so it must be true! :lol:


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## tim49424 (Jul 25, 2016)

JayPea said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.
> ...


If that same logic is true, on my next LD trip, I'll have gone from rags (non-train life) to riches (western LD trips) to rags (Cardinal and LSL) in the last few years. What a roller coaster ride it's been! LOL


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 25, 2016)

I used to always have the Steak for Dinner on LD Trains when in Sleepers ( not worth the a la carte charge when in Coach) but with the rising Fares and the Starvation,CONO,Chief and now the Lake Shore not having Steaks, I guess I'm back to being a poor Coach slub eating carry on food or overpriced Mica-food from the cafe!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 25, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't.


I did Philly to California and back and ate only cafe car food and a bag of chips I brought with me. I did not eat one meal in the dining car. Believe me, it's possible.



MikefromCrete said:


> Who in the heck is going to ride your precious Philly-Chicago train without some kind of food service?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Three Rivers never had a dining car. I have ridden the train twice.

2002 ridership on Three Rivers: 124,085

2003 ridership on Three Rivers: 137,234

2004 ridership on Three Rivers: 149,562

That's over 400,000 riders in three years. In 2004, 11.2% of the passengers was PHL-CHI so figure there was about 16,750 passengers. No diner car. We survived. What we can't survive is NO train.


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## BCL (Jul 25, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > The purpose of the dining car and food service has been to attract people to passenger rail. As the quality and availability of food goes down so will the ridership. We will not ride any LD route without food service. I am certain that other people feel the same. Can you imagine going from NY to Seattle without food service? I can't and won't.
> ...


Sure it's possible, but that's not addressing the comment which mentions dining car plus food service. You specifically mentioned food service and not just dining cars in a previous post. You didn't actually go without food service if you went with cafe car food.


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## Eric S (Jul 26, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> I have also said in the past I think some people make too big of a deal about the food service (or lack of). The main goal of Amtrak is transportation. Food service is secondary. If there is food and beverage losses, someone's paying and we know who it is. Is it really fair for the rest of us to pay so some rich travelers can enjoy Amtrak steaks? A lot of people in this country cannot afford the Amtrak steaks or Amtrak in general and a lot of people have bad or even no service. Are you who insist on Amtrak steaks willing to pay $30-$40 a steak for a steak which at Outback costs half that (or pay much higher room charges?) Someone has to pay for you to enjoy your Amtrak steaks at $25. Think about that. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive for better quality of service but people act like Boardman is the worst thing that ever happened to Amtrak because a few trains lost their Amtrak steaks (and that's mainly because of a delayed CAF order). *Meanwhile most of PA would like just a direct train to Chicago and would gladly take cafe car food* (and we had that for about nine years and I didn't hear complaints until we lost it). And there's a lot of people out there who would like any train, period. If I can afford 3-4 more LD routes by making every LD train dinerless and serve more people across the country, I would.
> 
> It all comes down to money. If Congress gave Amtrak $2B a year, you'd see more routes and better service. But with the current subsidy, not everyone is going to get what they want. So there has to be choices made. Everyone (especially me) wants what is best for them personally. But you have to realize that there are two sides to every decision they made. You don't have to like the decisions they made and can be angry with them. But unless you increase the subsidy, something's going to go. If the diner car(s) don't go, what does? And I can pretty much guarantee someone else will complain. Unless a bunch of money falls from the sky to Amtrak, costs go up and things have to go. That's why Amtrak has overall cut service since 1971. Their costs have risen faster than the government subsidy. At least when I say I want something, I'm willing to at least answer what to cut to make up for it. You may not (and don't) agree with my proposal but the only way to increase service somewhere when under budget is to cut something else.
> 
> *And if Amtrak does get the $2B, where's that going to come from? You know what the answer to that will be. Look in the mirror ... or your wallet. *


Somehow I doubt that there is actual evidence that, in terms of rail service, "most of PA" would just like a direct train to Chicago with cafe car service.

And, in terms of funding, such a small increase would be practically unnoticed by your and my wallets. And, so long as it is tied to actual improvements (increases in service), I'm all for it - bring it on.


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## jebr (Jul 26, 2016)

Assuming 150 million taxpayers, that $2B is $13.33. Not even the cost of a meal in an Amtrak diner. My guess is that most people wouldn't even notice it.

There's room to improve and reconsider how Amtrak does dining car service. Frankly, I'd be fine with looking at ways to provide more robust meals from a cafe car-style setup or something that scales better than a full-service diner. It may not be the same experience, but I'll still ride Amtrak trains even without a dining car, as long as on longer trips I can obtain decent meals (moreso than what the cafe car currently serves.)


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## tricia (Jul 26, 2016)

jebr said:


> Assuming 150 million taxpayers, that $2B is $13.33. Not even the cost of a meal in an Amtrak diner. My guess is that most people wouldn't even notice it.
> 
> There's room to improve and reconsider how Amtrak does dining car service. Frankly, I'd be fine with looking at ways to provide more robust meals from a cafe car-style setup or something that scales better than a full-service diner. It may not be the same experience, but I'll still ride Amtrak trains even without a dining car, as long as on longer trips I can obtain decent meals (moreso than what the cafe car currently serves.)


Me, too---IF a) the quality and variety of foods offered in the cafe improved; b) lounge space were available to eat in; and c) sleeper fares dropped if/when meals were no longer bundled with the fare. One possiblity might be to re-fit the dining cars as expanded cafe cars....


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## Seaboard92 (Jul 26, 2016)

Personally while we are talking about lounge cars. I would prefer to go back to the original streamliners and pull their interior design. I really don't like the booth set up at all. It has it's pros for eating but the other is just classier looking and feels more homely.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 31, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > I have the steak for dinner when I travel long-distance. Apparently, this means I'm rich.
> ...


Blue, you realize you are probably paying more $ for that Amtrak steak that you would a similar quality steak at Outback or Longhorn.

Amsnag, PHL/ORL St. Patrick's Day 2017 (3/17/17  ):

Roomette on SS: $201, Roomette on SM: $310

$109 for the steak as well as breakfast (lunch included on 98?). Even if you have a travel companion, that's $54.50 for 2-3 meals. The face value on the Amtrak steak is $24.75 (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/815/302/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-Menu-0416.pdf).

I would call the sleeper passengers the "rich" among Amtrak.

https://www.narprail.org/site/assets/files/1038/trains_2015.pdf

SM: 298,592 coach, 43,407 sleeper. So only about 12.7% of SM passengers use sleepers. The average fare for a sleeper passenger is $278 vs. $87 for a coach passenger (the average distance is 583 miles for coach and 942 miles for sleeper). So the sleeper passenger pays over 3x as much even though they are traveling less than 2x the distance.

LSL: 314,449 coach, 38,555 sleeper, 10.9% of LSL passengers in sleepers, average fare $247 vs. $60, average distance is 443 mi coach/721 mi sleeper). Here, sleepers are 4x the cost of coach even though again less than 2x the distance.

SWC: 299,214 coach, 63,785 sleeper, 17.6% in sleepers, fare: $315 vs. $82, distance: 1382 mi vs. 783 mi)

Clearly there's plenty of people who are out of the sleeper price range and the diner car people act like is the most important thing in the planet serves about 10-20% of the entire train plus coach passengers who are willing to pay the $24.75 for the steak vs. $10 for cafe car food. I think you can say at most only 20-30% of a LD train eats in the diner car at all.

You (and NARP) act like the typical Amtrak LD passenger books a sleeper car and needs to eat fine gourmet food (well Amtrak's definition of dine gourmet food). But the statistics clearly show a majority of LD passengers are not typical and many people either can't afford or choose not to spend the extra money for the Amtrak steaks.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > SarahZ said:
> ...


I pay for the sleeper accommodations if I can afford it, regardless if meals are included or not. Most of my sleeper trips have been with points (during the zone years). If I have the $$ or points to pay for a room, I'll get a room because I'd rather sleep in a bed than in coach. I've skipped included meals in the past, so I guess I threw away good money doing that, uh?

"needs to eat fine gourmet food" - me?? Yeah, right. You certainly don't know me.


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## A Voice (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > SarahZ said:
> ...


You can't just choose a date with the largest price difference and draw meaningful conclusions from it. Just one day later from the same destinations (March 18, 2017), there is only $29 separating the Roomette prices on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor. Most dates for that sample month seem to have either a $29 or $50 price difference. That's very different than over a hundred dollars for two or three meals. However, we're still over seven months out: Those prices are going to vary in the interim, changing the value equation. Further, the Meteor and Star are not a completely direct comparison. They serve slightly different markets; Pricing (and value to passengers) will not be equal even assuming the Silver Star gets the dining car back.


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## SarahZ (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points. Additionally, when my ex-boyfriend and I traveled together, we'd split the cost of the roomette, making it affordable for both of us.

I know people who can afford sleepers who prefer to travel in coach, and I know people who travel in sleepers who couldn't afford them without points. You can't draw a conclusion about someone and their attitude simply by where they happen to be sitting on the train.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 31, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.


How do you accumulate enough points to afford a sleeper? Wouldn't that require a lot of travel = a lot of $ (or maybe your job pays for it)? You may not be filthy rich but if you can get a $201 roommette on just points I know you spent way more than that on travel to get it.



SarahZ said:


> You can't draw a conclusion about someone and their attitude simply by where they happen to be sitting on the train.


And you can't assume that everyone on LD trains will miss the diner car or that the diner car is a necessity for LD travel. Lots of people can deal without it just fine (me included).

I'm actually surprised the SM and SS are so close on some days. Are they pricing it under the assumption that the diner car will be back on the SS by then? Prices between the SM and SS on Thanksgiving Week 2016 are pretty close on some days as well (11/22/16: $239 vs. $251, 11/23/16 (Day before Thanksgiving): $222 vs. $251).


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
> ...


I rack up points using the credit card. Others rack up points using the shopping portal. No, you don't have to travel to get points.


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## SarahZ (Jul 31, 2016)

I use the AGR card for absolutely everything. Plus, I only take one LD trip every 1-2 years, so that gives me time to rack up points.

Stop making asinine assumptions about me and my income.


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## Phager (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
> ...


I can't speak for anyone else, and I realize that the question wasn't directed at me, but in my case our next sleeper car trip was paid for by switching to a different energy provider (10k points) and then points per dollar spent on power. That money would have gone to a power provider one way or another, so might as well accrue points for keeping the lights on.

I would still ride in a sleeper even if meals weren't provided, or we're downgraded further, but to be perfectly honest, watching the sun rise over the San Joaquin Valley while eating french toast with my family was a real highlight of my first trip on the CS and I'm looking forward to doing that this October with my daughter and parents while traversing the Allegheny mountains on the CL.


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## railbuck (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> How do you accumulate enough points to afford a sleeper? Wouldn't that require a lot of travel = a lot of $ (or maybe your job pays for it)? You may not be filthy rich but if you can get a $201 roommette on just points I know you spent way more than that on travel to get it.


$201 is worth, in round numbers, 7000 points. You can earn those points by charging $3500 in travel (any kind of travel, not just Amtrak) or $7000 of anything on the AGR card. Shopping portal purchases, promotions, manufactured spending, and signup bonuses can generate additional points.

The "point" is, it's not difficult to be in a position where you are points-rich and cash-poor.


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## me_little_me (Jul 31, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Philly, some of us use points to book our sleepers. I can't afford to pay for one out of pocket, so I use points.
> ...


I would suggest that since you do not know what you are talking about in this thread, that you refrain from continuing. You are being very insulting. I also travel almost exclusively on points also and would never have enough to travel on them if I only earned them on Amtrak travel.

If you put almost all your spending on your Amtrak card, you'd be surprised at how many points you can gain on things like your cell phone and satellite bills, groceries, gas and many other basics in life. And, note, we have minimal phone and TV plans. We just put everything on the card and pay it off every month.

And our income is mostly from Social Security so it is not high.


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## afigg (Jul 31, 2016)

If I may get this thread back to something at least related to the topic of Boardman's departure and not discussions of the fine dining options on Amtrak or collecting AGR points, Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has posted a short column on a "tidbit" he heard about who might serve as an acting president after Boardman's retirement date.

Amtrak's acting president? Excerpt:



> So this is the tidbit whispered in my ear: that Stephen Gardner, Amtrak’s executive vice president for Northeast Corridor development, may get an interim appointment, as acting president.


Amtrak's Board was given plenty of advance notice to search for Boardman's replacement, so if they have to pick an acting president, that indicates that the search for a new CEO is taking a long time.


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## jis (Jul 31, 2016)

At least Stephen Gardner would be a relatively well known person.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 1, 2016)

jis said:


> At least Stephen Gardner would be a relatively well known person.


Is he any kin to Earl Stanley? ( Perry Mason Author)or Chauncey Gardner? ("Being There")


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## jis (Aug 1, 2016)

He was the one that spoke to the press on location soon after the 188 crash as I seem to recall.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 1, 2016)

afigg said:


> If I may get this thread back to something at least related to the topic of Boardman's departure and not discussions of the fine dining options on Amtrak or collecting AGR points, Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has posted a short column on a "tidbit" he heard about who might serve as an acting president after Boardman's retirement date.
> 
> Amtrak's acting president? Excerpt:
> 
> ...


Acting president can be let go when the wind of change occur with out any fuss. So after the next Federal Election you can determine who is in charge and what direction Amtrak is going, and adjust CEO's if needed.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 1, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > If I may get this thread back to something at least related to the topic of Boardman's departure and not discussions of the fine dining options on Amtrak or collecting AGR points, Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has posted a short column on a "tidbit" he heard about who might serve as an acting president after Boardman's retirement date.
> ...


Plus both Amtrak and Gardner can get a good feel if he's the right person for the job and the job is one he wants.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 1, 2016)

If he is a "lover of trains" (Fred Frailey's words) but also is heavily involved in the Northeast Corridor, the question is: Which path will he take?

Keep the existing national network and try to expand it?

Cut everything except the Northeast?

Or something in between?

Nobody in their right mind wants this job permanently, so even if he is interim, he may have it for years. And, as we've already seen with Joe Boardman, that can have its good side and its bad side.


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## jis (Aug 1, 2016)

No CEO of Amtrak can do much with the LD network except fiddle at the edges unless Congress actually funds the $1 billion for it that it is supposed to according to the Authorization, or find others to cover the difference, like states or private entities. And we know how that might go down for Amtrak.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 1, 2016)

Good point, jis. I am just hoping that whoever is the next CEO won't actively work against the LD network.


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## jis (Aug 1, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Good point, jis. I am just hoping that whoever is the next CEO won't actively work against the LD network.


So ordering new rolling stock for the LD network (self funded in principle using the surplus transfer from the NEC such as it is or is not) is now viewed as working against the LD network? Yeah, some of the actions could be construed as such maybe, but given the financial issues, would you rather that fewer trains were run at a more luxurious level while axing others to consolidate equipment use, or would you rather that the network is maintained, as it was, since once you lose a link it is darned hard to put Humpty Dumpty together again?

It is easy to blame the guy at the top. I frankly have no idea what choices were available to fit things within available resources, so I tend to take such assumptions under advisement so to speak. And yeah I myself have been a loud critic of a few specific actions, including but not limited to the PIPs not being acted upon sooner. But I think overall the jury is still out for a balanced appraisal and we will not get one until a few years have passed.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 1, 2016)

jis,

I wasn't clear in my post--I didn't mean that Boardman worked against the LD network.

I was actually referring to the new CEO if it is someone deeply connected to the NEC (which I do see, rightly or wrongly, as working against the LD network).

And I agree with you completely--we have to keep whatever we have and build on that.


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## jis (Aug 1, 2016)

So now let me point out the most egregious anti-LD acts of Boardman. I think the worst was getting rid of people like Brian Rosenwald, the architect of the enhanced service on the Coast Starlight and the Pacific Parlour Car. The next was getting rid of the PIP team soon after they completed putting together the PIPs indicating clearly that for whatever reason he had no intention of doing anything beyond fulfilling the minimum required by the Congress in that area. That is not a way to win friends in Congress to counter the detractors like Mica.

Then there were mixed bags like the handing of the Gulf Coast service restoration was also similar until the pressure from outside got too much to completely ignore. At which point they enthusiastically put on the Inspection Train and wrote a very credible plan with costing for restoration. In general I think he worked quite hard, sometimes in ways that seemed counter-intuitive to me, to save the current route of LD trains. He did manage to pull it off with the Empire Builder on the Devil's Lake Sub and has apparently pulled off for the SWC on the Raton Sub, and even threw in a stub service proposal to Pueblo as a starter.

His outfit generally threw a hissy-fit each time any contracting out proposal (Indiana) or discontinuance of contract (VRE) came up. This again does not help win friends, OTOH one would expect some of it as a survival mechanism from any organization. But some of the methods used left much to be desired.

Coming back to Mr. Gardner, I have only met him once, very briefly and I frankly don't know much about Gardner. I know some of the people that work for him and my impression is that he is a career manager type of person with no particular emotional attachment to the NEC. So my suspicion is that we will not see much residual NEC-isms from him. The flip side is we won;t probably see a deep emotional drive for the LD BU either. he will probably be a more or less OK manager of the system without making any waves. Sort of Kummant-like perhaps. So in general maintains status quo with no huge gains or losses at least as long as he is interim.

Just my guess based on relatively limited knowledge, so I could be entirely wrong. I am sure folks who have worked closer to him have more passionate views on the matter backed by more personal knowledge..


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## bmjhagen9426 (Aug 1, 2016)

I also agree with Mystic River Dragon regarding the next CEO and the LD network. I would definitely would want someone who is for systemwide improvement, but focusing on improving Long Distance neteworks. As a person who uses LD trains at least 4 times a year, and as many as 8 (current record) to 12 (what I have planned for next year) times a year, I would expect the LD trains get me there when I would need it, in a reliable manner, since I neither fly nor drive when traveling within the Lower 48. I see that making cuts is not the only way out, as it can and usually will drive customers away, and potential revenue will also shrink.



Mystic River Dragon said:


> If he is a "lover of trains" (Fred Frailey's words) but also is heavily involved in the Northeast Corridor, the question is: Which path will he take?
> 
> Keep the existing national network and try to expand it?
> 
> ...


As for your questions regarding which path he will take, I hope he changes his mind and goes with "Keep the existing national network and try to expand it", as I, as mentioned earlier, rely on LD trains for intra-state intercity and interstate travel. The place I live (Klamath Falls) is a bit remote for flights, and I would not bother myself with long security lines and more expensive ticket prices even if they bring back air service here (between Klamath Falls and Portland, it is $70 to $176 RT coachclass, $138 to $222 RT businessclass, while flying it costs like $250 RT just before they discontinued air service), and Dirty Dogs are already out of the question here. I definitely would not want to be stranded and having to bum a ride or to force myself past the long airport lines.


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## Thirdrail7 (Feb 2, 2018)

Some of us were talking about him and more importantly, his regime when this post about Mr. Boardman came into mind:



Thirdrail7 said:


> *Only time will tell if some of his decisions helped or hurt Amtrak and once we see what the next group does when they arrive, we'll know how well (or) badly Boardman performed.*





Devil's Advocate said:


> After reading every post in this thread it sounds like the jury is still out. Which makes sense since Boardman hasn't even left office yet. *It should be interesting to see what his successor has to say about Amtrak's state of affairs once Boardman is gone.*


His successors have had a lot to say about the state of Amtrak. Granted, it wasn't necessarily about him but he and his regime led the agenda. The safety culture has been called weak and non existence. Training has been attacked and this clearly reflects on his regime.

I'm just curious if anyone has a different or updated opinion of his tenure?


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## OBS (Feb 2, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Some of us were talking about him and more importantly, his regime when this post about Mr. Boardman came into mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I think you summed it up well in your paragraph regarding Safety and training... That idiotic safety program he implemented ( I can't even recall the name), where employees stood around and watched a random person work to see if they were working safely, was a total waste of money IMHO.....


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## Palmetto (Feb 2, 2018)

Did that job have a title?


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## jis (Feb 2, 2018)

The Boardman Safety Program was called something bureaucratic like “Safe to Safer” as I recall.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Ryan (Feb 2, 2018)

I think it was actually “Safe 2 Safer”, because all of the c00l kidz are replacing letters w1th numb3rz.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 2, 2018)

Ryan said:


> I think it was actually “Safe 2 Safer”, because all of the c00l kidz are replacing letters w1th numb3rz.


Those look like passwords to me.


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## keelhauled (Feb 2, 2018)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I think it was actually “Safe 2 Safer”, because all of the c00l kidz are replacing letters w1th numb3rz.
> ...


If they were passwords they would show as asterisks. Much like how my password is hunter2...


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## Ryan (Feb 2, 2018)

**! **!


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## OBS (Feb 2, 2018)

Ryan said:


> I think it was actually “Safe 2 Safer”, because all of the c00l kidz are replacing letters w1th numb3rz.


Thanks! All I could think of was the "S.T.O.P." safety program, but that was two or three safety programs ago...


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