# NWA Plane Overshoots Airport by More Than 100 Miles



## MrFSS

*MINNEAPOLIS — Federal officials say a Northwest Airlines jet overflew the Minneapolis airport by 150 miles before crew members discovered their mistake.*

The plane landed safely Wednesday evening, and none of the 147 passengers and crew were injured.

*Full Story*


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## AAARGH!

MrFSS said:


> *MINNEAPOLIS — Federal officials say a Northwest Airlines jet overflew the Minneapolis airport by 150 miles before crew members discovered their mistake.*
> The plane landed safely Wednesday evening, and none of the 147 passengers and crew were injured.
> 
> *Full Story*


OOOOOOPS!! :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

Me thinks somebody(s) fell asleep.


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## PRR 60

AAARGH! said:


> Me thinks somebody(s) fell asleep.


That seems to be the consensus opinion.

The crew's story is that they were in a "heated discussion" on airline policy and lost "situational awareness." Wow. Overshooting your airline's main base, MSP, by 150 miles is not like overshooting Rapid City. It would be like an Acela missing NYP and finally stopping in New Rochelle. Yikes.


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## AAARGH!

PRR 60 said:


> AAARGH! said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me thinks somebody(s) fell asleep.
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the consensus opinion.
> 
> The crew's story is that they were in a "heated discussion" on airline policy and lost "situational awareness." Wow. Overshooting your airline's main base, MSP, by 150 miles is not like overshooting Rapid City. It would be like an Acela missing NYP and finally stopping in New Rochelle. Yikes.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that ATC tried to raise them for an hour. They had to be wearing their headsets during that time.


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## JayPea

Having flown Northwest before, several times, this is one reason I've been known to call them "Northworst". :lol:


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## PetalumaLoco

Delta ain't doing much better;

Delta pilots land on taxi-way in Atlanta


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## PetalumaLoco

Speaking of situational awareness, watch these guys almost collect a hill top.

Close call with terrain.

They all seem to think it's really funny. This may end up like one of those speeding biker videos, where they record the speeding and illegal stunting, then get tracked down via youtube and arrested.


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## Bob Dylan

MrFSS said:


> *MINNEAPOLIS — Federal officials say a Northwest Airlines jet overflew the Minneapolis airport by 150 miles before crew members discovered their mistake.*
> The plane landed safely Wednesday evening, and none of the 147 passengers and crew were injured.
> 
> *Full Story*


As a licensed pilot I find this unbelievable, no excuse what-so-ever for these idiots!! They deserve to not only be grounded but fired and never fly a plane again! The bloggers that made the idiot comments about "there but for the grace of god etc.' are just as bad, and the clowns that landed on the taxi way in Atlanta are just as bad, if not worse! Another reminder of why I dont fly anymore, Amtrak is the way to go!


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## Ryan

PetalumaLoco said:


> Delta ain't doing much better;
> Delta pilots land on taxi-way in Atlanta


Jesus! I was in ATL last weekend and when we left on Sunday morning we taxied all the way down M and then took off on 27R. As we were on the takeoff roll, my stepson and I counted 10 airplanes lined up on M waiting in line to take off.


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## PRR 60

HokieNav said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Delta ain't doing much better;
> Delta pilots land on taxi-way in Atlanta
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus! I was in ATL last weekend and when we left on Sunday morning we taxied all the way down M and then took off on 27R. As we were on the takeoff roll, my stepson and I counted 10 airplanes lined up on M waiting in line to take off.
Click to expand...

I was at ATL yesterday, departed from 9L (27R), and also used M. One would think DL crews would know the layout at ATL. Typically, crews for international routes with heavies are the best of the best. Chilling.


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## PetalumaLoco

I was reading about the 100 mile extension to the trip again this morning in the paper (you know, that flimsy white thing with ink that rubs off on your hands, and finds more use in the bottom of the birdcage... but I digress) and it occurred to me that this wouldn't have happened if I were aboard monitoring progress with my GPS. Oops, that's right, last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane. I didn't want to argue with her as I had things to do after deplaning besides seeing what the inside of SFO's security facilities looked like. h34r:


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## MrFSS

PetalumaLoco said:


> I was reading about the 100 mile extension to the trip again this morning in the paper (you know, that flimsy white thing with ink that rubs off on your hands, and finds more use in the bottom of the birdcage... but I digress) and it occurred to me that this wouldn't have happened if I were aboard monitoring progress with my GPS. Oops, that's right, last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane. I didn't want to argue with her as I had things to do after deplaning besides seeing what the inside of SFO's security facilities looked like. h34r:


I had a flight attendant tell me to stop taking pictures out the window on a flight a few months ago. I wrote the airline and they said she was wrong and they would talk to her. Never heard anything further back from the airline.


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## AAARGH!

PetalumaLoco said:


> I was reading about the 100 mile extension to the trip again this morning in the paper (you know, that flimsy white thing with ink that rubs off on your hands, and finds more use in the bottom of the birdcage... but I digress) and it occurred to me that this wouldn't have happened if I were aboard monitoring progress with my GPS. Oops, that's right, last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane. I didn't want to argue with her as I had things to do after deplaning besides seeing what the inside of SFO's security facilities looked like. h34r:


Some airlines (including Southwest I think) let you use the GPS when above 10,000 feet, so long as it does not SEND radio signals. I don't think they can uless they have Bluetooth capabilities. Anyway, the max speed on my GPS is 600 MPH!

You need to look at the back of the in-flight magazine for a list of approved (or unapproved) devices and go from there.


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## GG-1

AAARGH! said:


> You need to look at the back of the in-flight magazine for a list of approved (or unapproved) devices and go from there.


Aloha

I think the Attendents are just using "If it has battery's, it must be turned off below 10,000 feet. Had to turn off noise reduction Headset


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## Rumpled

I think the only option is those guys being asleep, and very soundly. There had to have been some autopilot warnings as well as traffic control trying to raise them. How come no Air Force jets scrambled like in other cases of unknown aircraft? Or are they OK becasue there transponder is on?

Maybe planes need the 8 second button like on trains.

I'm gueesing the proposal to allow naps will go out the window now.

I don't know my GPS's max speed, but I have recorded 648 mph!


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## AAARGH!

Rumpled said:


> How come no Air Force jets scrambled like in other cases of unknown aircraft? Or are they OK becasue there transponder is on?


They had F-16s on hot standby in Madison, WI. They were able to raise the plane and verify it was not being hijacked before they needed to scramble the jets. Just before.


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## tp49

I wish I could take credit for this because when I read it I found it to be hilarious but someone commenting yesterday on the story in the Minneapolis Star Tribune speculated that the "heated discussion" was not about "airline policy" but in fact about who is the better quarterback Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers. This "distraction" led to an attempt to overfly Lambeau Field in Green Bay.

My bet is they were asleep.


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## GG-1

Aloha

A while back a small commuter plane ona short flight missed the Big Island of Hawaii by sleeping, by time they turned around and got back they were close to being out of fuel. the piolets were required to sleep in the cocpit when away from home base airports.


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## MrFSS

Another longer, more detailed recounting, *here*.


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## PetalumaLoco

MrFSS said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was reading about the 100 mile extension to the trip again this morning in the paper (you know, that flimsy white thing with ink that rubs off on your hands, and finds more use in the bottom of the birdcage... but I digress) and it occurred to me that this wouldn't have happened if I were aboard monitoring progress with my GPS. Oops, that's right, last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane. I didn't want to argue with her as I had things to do after deplaning besides seeing what the inside of SFO's security facilities looked like. h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a flight attendant tell me to stop taking pictures out the window on a flight a few months ago. I wrote the airline and they said she was wrong and they would talk to her. Never heard anything further back from the airline.
Click to expand...

Now that's just freaking ridiculous!


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## PetalumaLoco

AAARGH! said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was reading about the 100 mile extension to the trip again this morning in the paper (you know, that flimsy white thing with ink that rubs off on your hands, and finds more use in the bottom of the birdcage... but I digress) and it occurred to me that this wouldn't have happened if I were aboard monitoring progress with my GPS. Oops, that's right, last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane. I didn't want to argue with her as I had things to do after deplaning besides seeing what the inside of SFO's security facilities looked like. h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> Some airlines (including Southwest I think) let you use the GPS when above 10,000 feet, so long as it does not SEND radio signals. I don't think they can uless they have Bluetooth capabilities. Anyway, the max speed on my GPS is 600 MPH!
> 
> You need to look at the back of the in-flight magazine for a list of approved (or unapproved) devices and go from there.
Click to expand...

I did that, I checked the airline website later, and the TSA website. Not a word said about it. You can't argue with these people in the air, you get grilled on all 4 sides when you land.

By the way, did I say I HATE FLYING?


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## tp49

Someone was probably going to cross-pollinate from the thread on cameras in locomotive cabs here so why not me. Does something like this call for cameras in the cockpit?

I will not advocate either for or against on the subject. Just wondering out loud.


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## PetalumaLoco

tp49 said:


> Someone was probably going to cross-pollinate from the thread on cameras in locomotive cabs here so why not me. Does something like this call for cameras in the cockpit?
> I will not advocate either for or against on the subject. Just wondering out loud.


There are voice recorders now, as part of the Back Box, right?

I heard considerations for video after that Air France plane went missing in the Atlantic. It could help in crash investigations.


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## Bill Haithcoat

Am I missing something here? Why did not the flight attendants notice a problem? Seems like they would have noticed that they were flying past the city lights, or, if not, why are we late all of a sudden?


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## MrFSS

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Am I missing something here? Why did not the flight attendants notice a problem? Seems like they would have noticed that they were flying past the city lights, or, if not, why are we late all of a sudden?



*Here* is more information.

_*The pilots were finally alerted to their situation when a flight attendant called on an intercom from the cabin.*_


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## the_traveler

PetalumaLoco said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> 
> last time I used it on a plane, a very stern attendant told be in no uncertain terms to _*shut it off*_, as it was illegal to receive radio signals on a plane.
> 
> 
> 
> I had a flight attendant tell me to stop taking pictures out the window on a flight a few months ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now that's just freaking ridiculous!
Click to expand...

In March, I was taking pictures of the NY skyline on my cell phone camera while the plane was coming in for a landing at Newark Airport - and the FA told me to turn it off! :angry: (BTW - the cell phone was on airplane mode!)



AAARGH! said:


> the max speed on my GPS is 600 MPH!


I had my GPS read the train was *MOVING* at 748 MPH! 

The problem was - we were stopped at the platform at WAS at the time! :lol:


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## MrFSS

the_traveler said:


> I had my GPS read the train was *MOVING* at 748 MPH!
> The problem was - we were stopped at the platform at WAS at the time! :lol:


You were stopped - Washington was moving!


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## PRR 60

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Am I missing something here? Why did not the flight attendants notice a problem? Seems like they would have noticed that they were flying past the city lights, or, if not, why are we late all of a sudden?


The flight attendants might not think anything is unusual for a while. A flight can get vectored for traffic ("What's our vector, Victor?"), so the fact that they are not descending at the expected time would not raise a flag at first. Also, most flight attendants don't spend much time looking out the window. In the end, it was a flight attendant who felt that something was odd and tipped off the flight deck that they had overshot the station, so to speak.


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## Bob Dylan

Liked the reference to "Airplane", still the funniest movie ever! Guess the next time you go to WAL-MART or a fast food joint you can say hello to these EX-Pilots, maybe they can stay awake while greeting shoppers during the holiday rush!!

("You can tell me, I'm a Doctor!" "We're all counting on you!" "Roger, Roger!" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## PetalumaLoco

Meanwhile, back in the airport control tower...


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## Bill Haithcoat

PRR 60 and Jim Hudson, I too think "Airplane" is the funniest movie ever.

And it continues to be funny every time I see it.

And every time I watch it I think that I notice something I had not seen before.

That makes it, indeed, a classic.


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## jis

PRR 60 said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something here? Why did not the flight attendants notice a problem? Seems like they would have noticed that they were flying past the city lights, or, if not, why are we late all of a sudden?
> 
> 
> 
> The flight attendants might not think anything is unusual for a while. A flight can get vectored for traffic ("What's our vector, Victor?"), so the fact that they are not descending at the expected time would not raise a flag at first. Also, most flight attendants don't spend much time looking out the window. In the end, it was a flight attendant who felt that something was odd and tipped off the flight deck that they had overshot the station, so to speak.
Click to expand...

It would have been even more interesting if this were a United flight and Channel 9 was on and a pesky passenger like you or me would draw the attention of the cabin crew that for some reason our cockpit was not responding to ATC calls.


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## ALC Rail Writer

MrFSS said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something here? Why did not the flight attendants notice a problem? Seems like they would have noticed that they were flying past the city lights, or, if not, why are we late all of a sudden?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Here* is more information.
> 
> _*The pilots were finally alerted to their situation when a flight attendant called on an intercom from the cabin.*_
Click to expand...

If NWA policy is like Delta (who owns them now) the cockpit doors are locked and there is a seperation between the pilots and service crew to the point that the service crews don't talk to the pilots unless there's something wrong.

Between crossing time zones and the dimming sunlight nobody may have noticed any thing. I don't know but given the time the final clue may have been the fact that the sun was going down...



> There are voice recorders now, as part of the Back Box, right?
> I heard considerations for video after that Air France plane went missing in the Atlantic. It could help in crash investigations.


Yes voice recorders have been in the "black" box assembly for some time. A few years ago the FAA mandated that all planes use 2 hour long recorders, however this is an older plane that only had a 30-minute recorder. After 30 minutes it records over itself so that all that is recorded is the final moments of a plane before an accident which is, hypothetically, the most important when it comes to accident investigation.

Since it is only 30 minutes the only people who are witness to the pilots' actions are the pilots themselves-- there is absolutely no evidence and no way to disprove their story. And, bearing in mind they're presumed innocent until proven otherwise, their testimony is going to have to be accepted by the NTSB as the truth unless one of them decides to talk more... honestly...


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## GoldenSpike

A commercial pilots' take from his outsanding blog site *Flight Level 390* which gives a lot of insight into daily ops and dealing with their airline company:

*October 24, 2009*



> [i was working on another post, but decided to comment on the recent ruckus caused by an A320 that apparently overflew it's destination by, allegedly, 150 miles before turning back to the airport.
> Thank you Lord that I was not the captain on that aircraft. Whew! Missed another bullet. I have no idea what happened on that flight deck, nor will I postulate about it. I saw one of the pilots on a mainstream media report (BIG MISTAKE!) denying that they were sleeping or arguing, so that points to a third possibility, I guess.
> 
> To the flying or, for that matter, the non-flying public, this incident surely seems mighty strange, but it has happened many times since the beginning of air carrier operations back in the late 1920s. Airline pilots, also, have landed at the wrong airport many times, landed on taxiways instead of runways hundreds, no, thousands of times, landed on the wrong runway countless times, and the list goes on.
> 
> Any airline pilot who has been at this game long enough has lost contact with ATC numerous times. Usually dispatch contacts the crew by email, or in the days before email, by company frequency.
> 
> To this point in my career, I have not (*knock on wood*) landed at the wrong airport, on the wrong runway, or overflown my destination.
> 
> Unfortunately, this incident will probably lead to more regulations on top of the suffocating layers of regs we currently work under.
> 
> Not wanting to criticize without offering a solution, I fall back on my idea of Ameriflot, an Americanized version of the old Soviet air carrier, Aeroflot. We need a PCO (political correctness officer) sitting behind the comrade captain and an RCO (regulation compliance officer) sitting in the middle jump seat helping the crew navigate the maze of rules and regulations governing every flight.
> 
> Life on the Line continues...


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## PetalumaLoco

GoldenSpike said:


> A commercial pilots' take from his outsanding blog site *Flight Level 390* which gives a lot of insight into daily ops and dealing with their airline company:
> *October 24, 2009*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [i was working on another post, b....Life on the Line continues...
Click to expand...

I read this guy every chance I get!


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## MrFSS

And, here is the answer, perhaps:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Two Northwest Airlines pilots have told federal investigators that they were going over schedules using their laptop computers in violation of company policy while their plane overflew their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles, the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.

The pilots - Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer, and Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain - said in interviews conducted over the weekend that they were not fatigued and didn't fall asleep, the board said in a statement. Instead, Cole and Cheney told investigators that they both had their laptops out while the first officer, who had more experience with scheduling, instructed the captain on monthly flight crew scheduling. The pilots were out of communication with air traffic controllers and their airline for more than an hour and didn't realize their mistake until contacted by a flight attendant, the board said.

*LINK*


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## PetalumaLoco

MrFSS said:


> And, here is the answer, perhaps:
> WASHINGTON (AP) - Two Northwest Airlines pilots have told federal investigators that they were going over schedules using their laptop computers in violation of company policy while their plane overflew their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles, the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.
> 
> The pilots - Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer, and Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain - said in interviews conducted over the weekend that they were not fatigued and didn't fall asleep, the board said in a statement. Instead, Cole and Cheney told investigators that they both had their laptops out while the first officer, who had more experience with scheduling, instructed the captain on monthly flight crew scheduling. The pilots were out of communication with air traffic controllers and their airline for more than an hour and didn't realize their mistake until contacted by a flight attendant, the board said.
> 
> *LINK*


Scheduling my butt! They were RPG-ing!


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## PetalumaLoco

Well I was wrong about them doing RPG;


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## Rumpled

Well, they are not going to have to worry about how to figure out those schedules anytime soon!

They can take their time on the ground to figure out the morning shift as a Mart greeter.


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## ALC Rail Writer

How do you get distracted by your laptop for two hours while flying a freaking jet?

Answer: Well, how do you fall asleep or argue for two hours? It's all the same. You're just dumb.


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## Neil_M

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> How do you get distracted by your laptop for two hours while flying a freaking jet?
> Answer: Well, how do you fall asleep or argue for two hours? It's all the same. You're just dumb.


How long should you sleep to be classified as not dumb?


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## Ryan

Long enough to avoid making double posts?


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## ALC Rail Writer

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get distracted by your laptop for two hours while flying a freaking jet?
> Answer: Well, how do you fall asleep or argue for two hours? It's all the same. You're just dumb.
> 
> 
> 
> How long should you sleep to be classified as not dumb?
Click to expand...

While your flying a "freaking jet"... five seconds? I don't know-- can't be all that much.


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## rrdude

HokieNav said:


> Long enough to avoid making double posts?



hahahahha, thank you, thank you, thank you, opps. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Bob Dylan

PetalumaLoco said:


> Well I was wrong about them doing RPG;


Think you nailed it! These clowns will be great @ Mcdonalds or doing commercials for creditreport.com! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ALC Rail Writer

> WASHINGTON – The Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday revoked the licenses of the two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles.The pilots — Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain, and Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer — told safety investigators they were working on their personal laptop computers and lost track of time and place.


Full story here.

Well, they won't be overflying their destinations any time soon--


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## GoldenSpike

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> WASHINGTON – The Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday revoked the licenses of the two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles.The pilots — Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain, and Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer — told safety investigators they were working on their personal laptop computers and lost track of time and place.
> 
> 
> 
> Full story here.
> 
> Well, they won't be overflying their destinations any time soon--
Click to expand...

Sanity prevails. This was the only way to bring this to an end: Zero Tolerance.


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> It would have been even more interesting if this were a United flight and Channel 9 was on and a pesky passenger like you or me would draw the attention of the cabin crew that for some reason our cockpit was not responding to ATC calls.


Funny, I thought the same thing. Push call button: "Excuse me, but ATC has been trying to contact our flight for the last 15 minutes. Maybe you should call up front and see if they both had the fish for dinner?"


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## AAARGH!

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would have been even more interesting if this were a United flight and Channel 9 was on and a pesky passenger like you or me would draw the attention of the cabin crew that for some reason our cockpit was not responding to ATC calls.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, I thought the same thing. Push call button: "Excuse me, but ATC has been trying to contact our flight for the last 15 minutes. Maybe you should call up front and see of they both had the fish for dinner?"
Click to expand...

So many lines from "Airplane" come to mind. Too many to list here. :lol:


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## Phila 30th St

The Onion mentioned it today:

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/lapto..._to_pilot_error


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## Long Train Runnin'

Phila 30th St said:


> The Onion mentioned it today:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/lapto..._to_pilot_error


further proof its america's finest news source  :lol: :lol:


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## the_traveler

MrFSS said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had my GPS read the train was *MOVING* at 748 MPH!
> The problem was - we were stopped at the platform at WAS at the time! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> You were stopped - Washington was moving!
Click to expand...

We all know that Washington *NEVER* moves *THAT* fast! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## PetalumaLoco

Here (PDF file) is what an FAA notice of revocation looks like.

Pertinent phrase;

"20. You operated NW188 in a reckless manner that endangered the lives and property of others".


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