# Newest Nightjet sleepers from Siemens



## Willbridge (Sep 8, 2022)

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/obb-unveils-new-generation-nightjet-cars/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=34980


----------



## MisterUptempo (Sep 8, 2022)

Read about this the other day.

Luckily, YouTuber *The Man in Seat 61* had the opportunity to get a first hand look at the new NightJet sleepers, and shared a load of photos and a few videos on his Twitter feed. I'll share some here-

Exterior-













Four-berth Couchette (door removed for the event)-








Mini-Suite Berths- 
















The sleeping pod as well as the assigned storage opens with a key card. He shows, as someone who is 6 feet 2 inches tall, he can fit into the pod with no trouble-





MORE TO FOLLOW


----------



## MisterUptempo (Sep 8, 2022)

PART 2

Flip-down seating available in mini-suite sections-




Standard two-berth sleeping compartment-








A neat feature - The table can be lowered and a supplied cushion placed on the table top will turn the single seat and table into a couch-








Deluxe two-berth sleeper compartment-













Each couchette car will contain 3 four-berth couchette compartments and 28 mini-suite pods, for a total of 40 passengers max. The sleeper cars will contain 9 standard and 1 deluxe sleeper compartments, for a total of 20 passengers max. Each new consist will have 3 couchette cars and 2 sleeper cars, as well as a multi-function car with one Couchette compartment for mobility impaired and coach seating as well as coach seating in the cab car.

Video-


----------



## jiml (Sep 8, 2022)

The locomotives would almost fit in with Amtrak's new paint scheme on their Siemens units.


----------



## joelkfla (Sep 8, 2022)

No accessible room?


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Sep 8, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> No accessible room?


There’s a car that has an accessible room and coach seats. It was mentioned in one of the posts. Maybe the post with the Twitter screenshots.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Sep 8, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> No accessible room?


“multi-function car with one Couchette compartment for mobility impaired and coach seating as well as coach seating in the cab car.”


----------



## joelkfla (Sep 8, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> “multi-function car with one Couchette compartment for mobility impaired and coach seating as well as coach seating in the cab car.”


So mobility-impaired are limited to a Couchette. I don't think that would fly with ADA. I know I would not be happy.


----------



## jis (Sep 8, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> So mobility-impaired are limited to a Couchette. I don't think that would fly with ADA. I know I would not be happy.


Suffice it to say that Nightjets are not regulated by American FRA ADA rules 

Anything deployed in the US will almost certainly have very different interior layouts. They will also have very different exterior fittings that will be compliant with FRA regulations.


----------



## Chris I (Sep 9, 2022)

These look amazing. The single-sleeper concept is fantastic. This should be something we look at for Superliner replacement.

I think it's funny that some people are critical of these, citing ADA access. A fully single-level consist like this is so much more accessible than our Superliner fleet. Anyone who can't get up those insanely narrow stairs on a Superliner is stuck on the lower floor of a single car for the entire trip.


----------



## joelkfla (Sep 9, 2022)

Chris I said:


> These look amazing. The single-sleeper concept is fantastic. This should be something we look at for Superliner replacement.
> 
> I think it's funny that some people are critical of these, citing ADA access. A fully single-level consist like this is so much more accessible than our Superliner fleet. Anyone who can't get up those insanely narrow stairs on a Superliner is stuck on the lower floor of a single car for the entire trip.


Being on a single level doesn't help if the hallway is not wide enough for a wheelchair to pass, and if there is not a sleeping compartment with enough room for a wheelchair, let alone a power chair, to maneuver and park.


----------



## jis (Sep 9, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Being on a single level doesn't help if the hallway is not wide enough for a wheelchair to pass, and if there is not a sleeping compartment with enough room for a wheelchair, let alone a power chair, to maneuver and park.


At the cost of some capacity an appropriate floor plan can be created that adequately meets all ADA requirements on a single level platform. Strictly speaking same is true for a bu-level platform too, but it might include things like elevators and such that require maintenance and may be cost prohibitive.

At the end of the day it is just a matter of deciding on a compromise point for cost of operation and facilities that must be provided. The engineering can always be taken care of once the socio-legal issues are resolved.


----------



## dlagrua (Sep 9, 2022)

I view seeing new standard sleepers from Siemens being introduced as a very positive development. We will probably never see Superliners manufactured again so these cars would offer a nice alternative. The question is when will these nice sleepers be offered for sale and would Amtrak buy them?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 9, 2022)

with our buy Amerca policies the only thing same would be car shell, with everthing else provided by Amercan vendors, be it trucks - brakes - windows - HVAC - Doors - seats , iterior modules etc etc


----------



## jis (Sep 9, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> with our buy Amerca policies the only thing same would be car shell, with everthing else provided by Amercan vendors, be it trucks - brakes - windows - HVAC - Doors - seats , iterior modules etc etc


Siemens appears to manufacture its own trucks in the US though. The interior will definitely be produced by possibly the same outfit that produced the Sleeper modules for the Viewliners.


----------



## Chris I (Sep 9, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Being on a single level doesn't help if the hallway is not wide enough for a wheelchair to pass, and if there is not a sleeping compartment with enough room for a wheelchair, let alone a power chair, to maneuver and park.


I don't think I've ever been on a train that would permit someone in a power chair to traverse the entire length. I do recall seeing perhaps one car (usually business class) that has 1+2 seating, a special tie-down area for power chairs, and enlarged bathrooms on Cascades. Amfleet, Horizons, etc coach cars with 2+2 seating don't have aisles that are wide enough, right?


----------



## joelkfla (Sep 9, 2022)

Chris I said:


> I don't think I've ever been on a train that would permit someone in a power chair to traverse the entire length. I do recall seeing perhaps one car (usually business class) that has 1+2 seating, a special tie-down area for power chairs, and enlarged bathrooms on Cascades. Amfleet, Horizons, etc coach cars with 2+2 seating don't have aisles that are wide enough, right?


I don't travel in coach much, but I don't think any pre-Venture Amtrak cars have aisles wide enough for wheelchairs and power chairs in particular. But every current Amtrak coach AFAIK has a wheelchair space that is accessible from the vestibule by a power chair which meets ADA standards. Every sleeper has an accessible bedroom which I believe will accommodate a power chair. Viewliner diners have a table with a wheelchair space which is accessible from the accessible bedroom in the adjacent sleeper.

I believe Brightline Venture coaches are fully accessible through the length of the train. I don't know whether that is also true of Amtrak's new corridor Ventures, but I would assume so.

I'm pretty sure current regulations require every new car to have an accessible accommodation, which would rule out the Nightjet sleepers configured as reported. I don't know whether they require accessibility through the length of the train.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 9, 2022)

jiml said:


> The locomotives would almost fit in with Amtrak's new paint scheme on their Siemens units.


The picture in this thread was of a cab car, but I am not sure what you were referring to.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 9, 2022)

Still not sure about these pods or mini-suite. I am pretty sure that I can’t fit, but what will happen if some straightening out and there feet pressed against that roller doors. Do they pop the door open, or just jam them close?

I see the glass hammer, just not sure if anybody could slip out the windows in a emergency.


----------



## cpl100 (Sep 9, 2022)

I can't see a place to store luggage.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 9, 2022)

cpl100 said:


> I can't see a place to store luggage.


People in Europe seem to travel with much less luggage. Baggage cars disappeared several years ago.

A bigger issue is the lack of bicycle storage.


----------



## Mailliw (Sep 9, 2022)

I imagine you could replace the deluxe bedroom with an accessible bedroom and still have room for 9 standard bedrooms. Here's recording of the press conference dubbed in English.


----------



## Willbridge (Sep 10, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> I imagine you could replace the deluxe bedroom with an accessible bedroom and still have room for 9 standard bedrooms. Here's recording of the press conference dubbed in English.



It was especially enjoyable to hear the Austrian minister speaking. I can't even imagine a federal level politician in North America saying what she said. (I confess that I had already become a Nightjet fan.)


----------



## MisterUptempo (Sep 10, 2022)

I think these new NightJet trainsets are great. Regarding the ability of cars like these to replace current Amtrak sleeper stock, I question whether the couchette berths and mini-suite pods would be useful for anything other than single-night sleeper routes.

When these new trains finally hit the rails in 2023, The only routes they will be assigned to initially will be Vienna to Venice or Milan or Rome, and Munich to Venice or Milan or Rome. This is, in part, because only Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Italy have approved their use. More countries will give approval in the not-too-distant future, I'd imagine.

Doing a quick scan of all NightJet's destination combinations, I believe Vienna-Rome is the _longest_, at least in terms of time spent traveling, 15 hours 20 minutes. That compares to Amtrak's _shortest_ sleeper routes by time spent traveling, the _Palmetto _and _Auto Train_, which both clock in at around 17 hours, and the _Capitol Limited_, at 17 hours 25 minutes.

That said, these new couchette cars have been designed for a system in which every single sleeper route is shorter than any of Amtrak's, with the purpose of getting people from point A to point B efficiently and comfortably overnight, not necessarily provide them with an "experience". I'm good with that. I believe that should be at the heart of Amtrak's mission. I know others here disagree.

Consider, for example, the seating arrangements. With the exception of the flip-down seating, there is no other place for anyone in the couchette cars to sit, except in their berth. The flip-down seats don't appear to have any padding on the seat back, and there are not enough seats to accommodate every passenger in the car. Also, anyone sitting there would have to get up/move to allow others to pass by. 

These seats look like they are designed for utility, not comfort, something passengers might use to put on/take off shoes, maybe sit and eat something ordered from catering on one's lap, and not much else. Perfectly tolerable for a one night trip, probably not so much for passengers on the _Empire Builder_ or the _Southwest Chief_ or the _Texas Eagle_. 

If one booked a mini-suite pod on a long, multi-day Amtrak route to view the scenery, they will likely be disappointed. Yes, there is a window in each pod, but it's hardly conducive to watching the miles roll by. 

Consider there is no diner, lounge, or sightseeing car, likely to keep costs down. But also, with NightJet, the type of passenger they are catering to probably just wants to get into their space, maybe order something to eat in their berth(which, by the looks of the menu, means hot entrees are some form of microwave meal, not included), grab some sleep, and wake up the next morning to a very basic included breakfast and arrive at their destination.

If fares for couchette car accommodations on Amtrak long distance routes can be priced competitively, and Amtrak properly communicates that booking in the couchette car is just a step above coach, _perhaps_ the inconveniences will be overlooked by passengers.

Routes like the _Lake Shore Limited_, the _Capitol Limited_, the_ Palmetto_, and the _CONO_ are shorter trains that could benefit from using the couchette cars, though it would be helpful if incremental improvements along the routes could get run times down.

As far as possible new single night routes that could use the couchette cars, I can think of an overnighter between NYP and Charlotte, either via Crescent or Carolinian route, NYP to Atlanta via the Crescent route. Yes, the Crescent is a night train, but I was thinking of a second overnight train that departed NYP a couple of hours later than the Crescent, terminating in ATL. This is another example of a route one hopes will see improved run times as improvements are made. Also CHI-Twin Cities, CHI-Nashville, CHI-Toronto.

Any thoughts?


----------



## johnmiller (Sep 10, 2022)

The current Nightjet stock, of course, are not at all like this. The outsides are very dirty and the insides are cramped, even when you pay for the "deluxe" room that has an in-room bathroom. Having new stock is good, but the upkeep of them is going to be just as important.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Sep 10, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> But every current Amtrak coach AFAIK has a wheelchair space that is accessible from the vestibule by a power chair which meets ADA standards.


Superliner baggage coaches, and superliner cafe/lounge coaches do not. They are always in a train set with coaches that do have lower level seating though.


----------



## Mailliw (Sep 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> So mobility-impaired are limited to a Couchette. I don't think that would fly with ADA. I know I would not be happy.


Does the accessible couchette have an ensuite toilet? If so then disabled passengers are basically getting a sleeping compartment for the price of a couchette; just like Amtrak prices the ADA bedrooms as roomettes.


----------



## joelkfla (Sep 12, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> Does the accessible couchette have an ensuite toilet? If so then disabled passengers are basically getting a sleeping compartment for the price of a couchette; just like Amtrak prices the ADA bedrooms as roomettes.


I have no idea what an accessible couchette would be. I thought couchettes were bare bones rooms with either 4 or 6 bunks stacked along both walls and nothing else but a small table, usually shared by unrelated parties.


----------

