# inexpensive ideas for Amtrak



## Fred wisconsin (Jan 20, 2016)

So, I do enjoy watching this site. It feeds my need for train travel when I can't just take off and go. And I understand this is not an official site for Amtrak. But sometimes, the posters do go over the edge, complaining about how they want huge projects undertaken for improving Amtrak. Yes, I want these too, but then reality always needs to be considered. So, here is my idea: If you could pitch just one idea to the CEO of Amtrak , AND the idea needs to be under half a million in cost, what would you pitch?

Here is my idea. Take a small number of baggage cars and convert them for hauling motorcycles. A ramp and some type of system for securing them in the car.Then add the cars to western routes for seasonal use. For example: Chicago to somewhere in North Dakota During the big Harley rally held in Sturgis South Dakota. Many middle age bikers love to do rides for events, but don''t want to travel cross country on there bikes. The car would be parked on a siding for unloading. No waiting to unload, for the train pulling the car. This could be done on the Zepher for trips to Yellowstone, The chief for the grand canyon, the Empire builder, for glacier, or the Sturgis rally, and probably others. Maybe rotate during the summer, between these routes. This has the potential of being a money maker, and doesn't require as much infrastructure as creating another auto train. What do you think of this idea, or tell me your idea.


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## rrdude (Jan 20, 2016)

Me thinks your half-million estimate is way to low. I won't go into reasons, but even the mere mundane aspect of dropping off, and picking back up, a "converted bag" would be major. I know it sounds stupid, because in theory, it should be easy.

One other problem is the quantity of bags ava. With the complete CAF order, Amtrak has _just enough bags_ to retire the 40-50-60 year old existing bags, and they ain't coming back.

I think the best use of $500K would be employee training, for on-board, customer facing employees. Give employees courses in HOSPITALITY. Not everyone intuitively knows "how" to deal with the public, _especially_ when things go bad. (late train, crappy food, over-sold, too hot, too cold......)

But again, not sure how far $500K would get you there either.

Other posters here have also heard me rant about Amtrak partnering with major consumer companies, in "sponsoring" selected lounge cars. Get Apple or HP, or Ford, or Garmin, or Bacardi, or the City of Reno, or XYZ, to pay for upgrading the car to a higher level, a la the PPC cars that run on the Starlight. Wrap the damn things, fill with over-stuffed swivel seats, put in an employee ambassador, cover the extra costs of running said car, so there is no "out of pocket" expense to Amtrak, and let the consumer-facing company use it as advertising their brand, kind of like the Goodyear Blimp "advertises Goodyear tires.

Better experience for all passengers who ride Amtrak.........

But, I'll be riding that proposal to the grave I fear.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

Yes, I may have under guessed the number for my idea of the motorcycle idea. Just having fun with an idea. I do like your idea of branding cars. In fact maybe combine our ideas, and have Harley brand the motorcycle car.


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## rrdude (Jan 20, 2016)

Bingo!

Harley pays for the refurbishment, and cost to operate the new "Cycle-Bag-Combine". Downside is, they would need enough to support the entire selected route, PLUS spares, so that this new service could be entered into the reservations system.

Still have the problem of loading and unloading. THAT is not going away, and is BIG.

But the "idea" of Harley (insert any mfg or company) doing that sort of thing, is correct.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Jan 20, 2016)

And if you don't ride a Harley you need go Greyhound? :giggle:


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

rrdude said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Harley pays for the refurbishment, and cost to operate the new "Cycle-Bag-Combine". Downside is, they would need enough to support the entire selected route, PLUS spares, so that this new service could be entered into the reservations system.
> 
> ...


Maybe Harley Davidson, runs it as if it were a "private varnish" car, attached to the back of an Amtrak route. And maybe the chamber of commerce in a tourist town takes on the site infrastructure needed, in an effort to bring more tourists to their town,


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

Also , with motorcycles, unlike autos, a folding ramp could be incorporated into the car, rather than needing permanent structures at each site. I am thinking something similar to the folding stage used on the canadian national christmas train.


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## Randall (Jan 20, 2016)

I would definitely use!


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## pennyk (Jan 20, 2016)

This thread was moved from the Guest Questions forum since it did not involve a question about Amtrak. It was moved to this Forum because it involves a future idea.

(note to guest Fred Wisconsin, who started this thread: please feel free to become a member if you would like to share more of your ideas. Thanks).


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## FormerOBS (Jan 20, 2016)

The idea of dropping off and picking up baggage cars enroute is probably a nonstarter because of the expense of additional switching.

I don't think I can address the possibility that baggage cars could be outfitted for the purpose.

Tom


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## PaulM (Jan 20, 2016)

jis said:


> DoB said:
> 
> 
> > C&O RR said:
> ...



Don't laugh, but I was waiting for a train early one morning in Kufstein, Austria, when a train passed through the station heading for Germany. A bunch of rough looking passengers were dangling beer cans out the window; and at the end of the train were several auto-racks full of motorcycles. Probably a special heading home from a Teutonic version of Stergis.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 21, 2016)

Don't forget Amtrak has in the past run biker trains. Both to Florida, and Datoka. The bikes were transport in a standard baggage car. They were on two wooded pallets with a 2x4 on each side to keep them attached together.

The bikes were strapped down, and a forklift loaded/unloaded them. The trip was put together by a (bike dealer?) from (Boston?).

One knows pallets with 2x4 do not cost 500,000 usd.

Don't recall why this service was stopped. However I do recall talk about lack of sleeping cars, with some "we don't like this crowd" talk. Of course the financial risk was all on the trips sponsor, and not on Amtrak.

Think it was a Trains Story as the source.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 21, 2016)

Well to veer this topic more back to the original topic. What about converting the Amfleet I business class cars from 2-2 seating to 2-1. Especially a small number for trains that operate with A2 coaches as they aren't as comfortable as A2s. It would lower the seat count but I think consumer satisfaction would go up.


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## Eric308 (Jan 21, 2016)

I go to Sturgis almost every year from Wisconsin and RIDE my cycle the entire way...unlike poseurs who trailer their bikes 20 miles east of Stugis, don their new leathers and ride on in. I'm 70 now and used to do it in a day..it's about 800 miles or so. The closest Amtrak stop to Sturgis is probably Williston, ND which has to be 300 miles . Not in the cards for this guy.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 21, 2016)

One of the times they ran to Sturgis, Amtrak ran on short line railroad to get close, 30 miles or so. The dinning car open one night during the event and all the town folks at this community had dinner on a parked Amtrak train.

That what I remembered, don't forget these biker were coming in from Boston so there travel time was a bit longer.


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## Fred Wis. (Jan 22, 2016)

Interesting stories of Europe making it work, and private business finding a way to make motorcycle excursion work. Probably would need a Harley and an Iowa Pacific type partnership to innovate an idea like this. Thanks everyone for adding to the discussion. On the 1-1 seating , could Amtrak charge more for this seating? As for me, i generally travel with spouse, so that wouldn't be the preferred option.


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## Fred Wis. (Jan 22, 2016)

Oops, my bad, I re read the post about seating on amfleet business class and the poster said 2-1 seating , not 1-1. that makes more sense.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 22, 2016)

What's really interesting auto train wise in Germany is the Sylt Shuttle. You should look that up. You drive your car on and stay in your car. I would have zero faith in ip right now


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## neroden (Jan 23, 2016)

Fred wisconsin said:


> So, here is my idea: If you could pitch just one idea to the CEO of Amtrak , AND the idea needs to be under half a million in cost, what would you pitch?


To beat a dead horse, I'd move heaven and earth to get a daily Cardinal, which would *generate* over $5 million/year (net over current operations) to pay for capital costs or for other projects.
If you let me do a second project, I'd do the Capitol Limited-Broadway through cars, which are also profitable.

If you let me do a third project, I'd publish the ingredients of the dining car food on the website. This can't cost more than, say, $10,000 in labor costs, and that seems like a high estimate.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 23, 2016)

neroden said:


> To beat a dead horse, I'd move heaven and earth to get a daily Cardinal, which would *generate* over $5 million/year (net over current operations) to pay for capital costs or for other projects.
> 
> If you let me do a second project, I'd do the Capitol Limited-Broadway through cars, which are also profitable.
> 
> If you let me do a third project, I'd publish the ingredients of the dining car food on the website. This can't cost more than, say, $10,000 in labor costs, and that seems like a high estimate.


1st idea New CEO coming soon.

2nd idea New CEO coming soon.

3rd idea is a contract kitchen thing. Better QC with required ingredients list will address this one. Not the current do something like this, at the cheapest cost.


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## neroden (Jan 27, 2016)

I'd also make new overtures to UP about a daily Sunset Limited (or Sunset-Eagle combo or whatever) since it should be worth about $4 million per year in reduced operating subsidy requirements, and the "don't ask us" period expired years ago.

And I'd pay some accountants to actually report the PRIIA-requested "profit/loss based strictly on only short-term-avoidable costs" for the train routes, which would demonstrate that nearly all of them are profitable now. (This is a relatively recent development.) It's useful thing politically to be able to point out that Congress is really only subsidizing the national system overhead, the cost of *having* a train system *at all* -- the equivalent of Air Traffic Control -- while nearly all the individual trains are paying for themselves.


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