# Empire Builder and the Souris River



## anir dendroica

The Empire Builder disruption has been variously estimated to last from two weeks up to a month or more. The exact time span will depend on how much damage is caused by the flooding. It looks pretty likely to me that the Souris River bridges at Minot will be washed out if the water rises another 8-9 feet as predicted.

Here are some photos from BNSF taken yesterday. Water just starting to cross the tracks.

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-22.pdf

I'll post photos, news articles, and updates from BNSF/Amtrak here as they become available, and I encourage others to do the same. Please don't hijack this topic for discussions or complaints about cancellations; there are plenty of other topics for that.

Mark


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## jb64

Thanks for posting this and starting this thread. I won't hijack it but will be watching closely since I am supposed to be on the EB westbound from CHI to WGL on July 23rd.


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## QueenCC

Hi,

I was planning on taking the train on 7/1 from Ohio (Lake Shore Limited to Chicago then changing to Empire Builder) to Washington State... But last night at around 8pm I get a phone call to tell me that my train from Chicago to Washington was cxl do to flooding, in SD & MT..... So after 2 hrs on the phone with Amtrak I was able to get rerouted... I'm now going via the Southwest Chief to California, then the Coast Starlight to Washington. Has anyone been on the SWC or CS? Amtrak still has me scheduled to take the Empire Builder home on 7/9, so what do you think the chances of my return getting cxl as well?

CC


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## Rider

I assume hijacking means altering the original topic which I won't do either.

But thanks for posting this and those photos give a very clear view of why some trains have been cancelled, and more will be. Thanks for posting. I am hoping I can access that BNSF site for more updates.


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## Railroad Bill

I think you will enjoy the SW Chief ride through the Raton Pass and across the deserts of NM & AZ. And you really will like the Coast Starlight. Beautiful scenery and the Pacific Parlour Car if you are a sleeper passenger. These routes will take longer for you to get to Washington, but its well worth the time.

If your eastbound EB is cancelled, you might opt for a Coast Starlight and California Zephyr ride from Sacramento to Chicago via the Rocky Mts. Another very scenic ride.

Have a great trip.


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## eagle628

anir dendroica said:


> Here are some photos from BNSF taken yesterday. Water just starting to cross the tracks.
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/.../2011-06-22.pdf


Uh oh...


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## Bruce-C

Here is a real good local CBS affiliate in Minot. http://www.kxnet.com/


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## QueenCC

Railroad Bill said:


> I think you will enjoy the SW Chief ride through the Raton Pass and across the deserts of NM & AZ. And you really will like the Coast Starlight. Beautiful scenery and the Pacific Parlour Car if you are a sleeper passenger. These routes will take longer for you to get to Washington, but its well worth the time.
> 
> If your eastbound EB is cancelled, you might opt for a Coast Starlight and California Zephyr ride from Sacramento to Chicago via the Rocky Mts. Another very scenic ride.
> 
> Have a great trip.



I think it will be beautiful... This is my first LD train ride.... My friend and I went with coach.... We thought about getting a sleeper but didn't want to pay like an extra 500. I'm not to worried about sleeping in coach though, because if I can sleep in a car on the LD drive across country I can sleep on a train!


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## Ispolkom

I just drove over the BNSF tracks in Minot an hour ago (in a tow truck -- a long story the moral of which is that these fancy electronic keys in rental cars are for the birds). The Mouse River is overtopping the BNSF tracks right now, and the river is going to rise several (5-8) feet in the next day. Given how fast the river is rising and how fast it's flowing, I'd hardly be surprised if several bridges were taken out.

Given that the same flood is going to take out homes for thousands of Minot's citizens, the Hi Line's problems are hardly the worst thing happening this weekend. We're just hoping that my mother's house (it's her 84th birthday today) gets nothing worse than water in the basement. Lots of other people we know are going to simply lose their houses.


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## George B

anir dendroica said:


> The Empire Builder disruption has been variously estimated to last from two weeks up to a month or more. The exact time span will depend on how much damage is caused by the flooding. It looks pretty likely to me that the Souris River bridges at Minot will be washed out if the water rises another 8-9 feet as predicted.
> 
> Here are some photos from BNSF taken yesterday. Water just starting to cross the tracks.
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-22.pdf
> 
> I'll post photos, news articles, and updates from BNSF/Amtrak here as they become available, and I encourage others to do the same. Please don't hijack this topic for discussions or complaints about cancellations; there are plenty of other topics for that.
> 
> Mark


There is only about a 35% chance of the lines being open in Minot on July 15th, according to a friend who works for BNSF.


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## sechs

I recall the news saying that it would more than a month just for the waters to recede. I expect that it'll be a couple of feet over the rails before this is all over.


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## kathy

Hello, Yes, those people all need our prayers first of all. Secondly, I have a reservation from Cleveland, Ohio to Chicago and then from Chicago to Whitefish, Montana on July 15th and 16th. I am wondering if it would be best to get another reservation for August and cancel this one...my one in a lifetime trip to see my brother out in W.Glacier!

Doe anyone think that timing would be better than the July date??

Thanks!!


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## QueenCC

So, I just got off the phone with amtrak again.... And so far they haven't cxl my train back for 7/9 yet *keeps fingers crossed everything will be ok*

CC


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## Aurora1101

Kathy:

I would definitely cancel your July reservation and get another one in August or better yet in September. It looks like a Minimum of a month, or maybe two months to get things back to normal out there. Even though the track may be open, there will be a HUGE HUGE backlog of freights that will have to pass through that region. I have a reservation for September, and I am worried about that being canceled. From the long range forecasts, it looks like it will be wetter than average through September.

Otherwise, if you have the time, take the Zephyr to San Francisco, the coast starlight to Seattle, and the Stub EB to Whitefish.

Good luck!! and reiterate that the people out there need our prayers.



kathy said:


> Hello, Yes, those people all need our prayers first of all. Secondly, I have a reservation from Cleveland, Ohio to Chicago and then from Chicago to Whitefish, Montana on July 15th and 16th. I am wondering if it would be best to get another reservation for August and cancel this one...my one in a lifetime trip to see my brother out in W.Glacier!
> 
> Doe anyone think that timing would be better than the July date??
> 
> Thanks!!


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## Aurora1101

From the long range outlooks from the NOAA climate prediction center, it does not look good at all for the northern plains.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/30day/off14_prcp.gif

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/long_range/lead01/off01_prcp.gif


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## Jeff

Thanks for the pictures! I have a reservation for MSP-SEA on Aug. 1. Won't be surprised if it ends up being cancelled.


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## going to the sun sue

Aurora1101 said:


> Kathy:
> 
> I would definitely cancel your July reservation and get another one in August or better yet in September. It looks like a Minimum of a month, or maybe two months to get things back to normal out there. Even though the track may be open, there will be a HUGE HUGE backlog of freights that will have to pass through that region. I have a reservation for September, and I am worried about that being canceled. From the long range forecasts, it looks like it will be wetter than average through September.
> 
> Otherwise, if you have the time, take the Zephyr to San Francisco, the coast starlight to Seattle, and the Stub EB to Whitefish.
> 
> Good luck!! and reiterate that the people out there need our prayers.
> 
> 
> 
> kathy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, Yes, those people all need our prayers first of all. Secondly, I have a reservation from Cleveland, Ohio to Chicago and then from Chicago to Whitefish, Montana on July 15th and 16th. I am wondering if it would be best to get another reservation for August and cancel this one...my one in a lifetime trip to see my brother out in W.Glacier!
> 
> Doe anyone think that timing would be better than the July date??
> 
> Thanks!!
Click to expand...


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## The Davy Crockett

WOW... Amazing pics and videos. And the long range precip. forecast looks pretty ominous too. I was through Minot on #7/27 last month and the river was high then, but NOTHING like it is now. We sat in Minot for about one and a half hours, waitng for our next engine crew to become legal, and I got to talking to some of the locals. They were concerned about how high the Souris was then. They've had one tough stretch. My thoughts, prayers and condolences go out to them all.


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## mwmnp

Here are some recent screencaps from the KXMC-TV live stream. They have had a cameraman on the roof of one of the buildings south of the Amtrak station for the last couple days.


























Officially, the track closest to the platform at the station is still in service. BNSF ran trains, all eastbound, throughout the day on Thursday and early this morning through Minot. The last plan I heard was to keep the track open until water reached the top of the rails on the Souris River bridge. Another eastbound is expected to attempt the journey through Minot around noon, though with the water rising rapidly above the rails near the Amtrak station, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets held back west of the city. The other track has been out-of-service since Tuesday.

Edit: the remaining track was taken out-of-service around 10:45 Central Time. The empty grain train expected in around noon will be turned around west of Minot.


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## lisadinpa

So if I'm scheduled to be on the Empire Builder from Chicago to PDX on July 25 with a return to PA (starting) on July 31, I should look for alternates now?

Thanks for the pix. Prayers/good thoughts to the residents of the Minot area and points south on the river systems.


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## Rail Freak

anir dendroica said:


> The Empire Builder disruption has been variously estimated to last from two weeks up to a month or more. The exact time span will depend on how much damage is caused by the flooding. It looks pretty likely to me that the Souris River bridges at Minot will be washed out if the water rises another 8-9 feet as predicted.
> 
> Here are some photos from BNSF taken yesterday. Water just starting to cross the tracks.
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/.../2011-06-22.pdf
> 
> I'll post photos, news articles, and updates from BNSF/Amtrak here as they become available, and I encourage others to do the same. Please don't hijack this topic for discussions or complaints about cancellations; there are plenty of other topics for that.
> 
> Mark


My God, I had no idea! Thanx for the photos!!!


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## frugalist

I've been watching the webcast of the Minot TV station since last night. The tops of the rails are now under water at the Minot Amtrak station. That levy surrounding the depot must be close to 10 feet high.

I hope all the residents in the region stay safe. I can't imagine what they're going through. Changing our vacation itinerary is such small stuff compared to their problems.


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## Bruce-C

Bruce-C said:


> Here is a real good local CBS affiliate in Minot. http://www.kxnet.com/


from kxnet.com:

At 1:00pm 6/24 Minot time, the flood level is at 1558.52. Water is rising at a rate close to 1/2' per hour!!

Photos of the railroad bridge shows two tracks almost underwater, the third track has about 1' before it too is underwater.

Water flows currently in Minot are 17,000sfc. Upstream Lk. Darling dam has been releasing water at a rate of 26,000cfs. since 10pm. Thurs., Water flows of 29,000cfs. can be possible in Minot on 6/25.

The flood is now predicted to crest sometime late Sat.6/25 at 1564.5' and remain close to that level for the predictable future (about several days).


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## rick

It seems anybody who has reservations on the Builder through the rest of the summer should probably change them as soon as possible. I can't rememeber when a train has been this plagued. Only problem is that July and August are peak travel months for Amtrak and I wonder if any sleeper space is even available.

We took 27 from Chicago to Portland last month and we were actually early into PDX. We made these reservations last September, and it was touch and go whether the train would be running at all. As it turned out,we were quite lucky,because the train was cancelled about a week after we got back,and it's been touch and go since.

I feel sorry for the passengers who booked travel on the EB this summer. Who would expect all these fiascos? When we took the EB through North Dakota last month we were amazed the train made it through. The water was high then. i can only imagine how bad it is now.


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## mwmnp

The Mouse River bridge this afternoon. This bridge is under 24 hour supervision by personnel in the BNSF structures department:






A view from yesterday of the railroad overpass slightly west of the Amtrak station:





Minot Flood Ops 6-23 - 21 by NDNG, on Flickr

The same overpass this evening:


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## anir dendroica

Today's update from BNSF:

http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-consumer/0C291843FEDC995A862578B900664B85?Open



> To: All BNSF Intermodal Customers06/24/2011
> 
> Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding
> 
> As stated in the Service Advisory dated Wednesday, June 22, 2011, BNSF reported plans to close the Minot, North Dakota area to rail traffic due to main track flooding.
> 
> - Main track one was removed from service 12:00 p.m. CT on June 22, 2011.
> 
> - Main track two was removed from service 10:00 a.m. CT on June 24, 2011.
> 
> BNSF began proactively moving intermodal trains departing from the Pacific Northwest and from Chicago over established reroutes on the evening of June 22 in order to minimize the impact to our customer’s freight. Due to the Minot mainline outage customers may experience additional transit time of 36 to 48 hours on shipments moving via the reroutes.
> 
> Based on hydrological forecasts the Minot outage is currently estimated to last 10 to 14 day. BNSF will continue to update customers on actual conditions


Souris River hydrograph at Minot:

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=bis&gage=mion8&view=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1%22

The EB actually crosses the Souris River twice: at Minot and at Towner on the Devils Lake sub. I suspect the crossing at Towner will be damaged as well. The KO sub crosses the Souris at Verendrye on what looks to be a pretty high bridge.

For those worried about a freight backlog, that shouldn't be a problem in this case. BNSF is currently sending all freight via alternate routes; there should be no trains parked waiting for the line to reopen.

Mark


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## Bob Dylan

So with the EB being Shutdown for a Month (or More!  ) Why Not Have a Plan to Run the Builder on the Freight Lines that BNSF is Using like they Do whenever the High Line is Shutdown? Of Course it would be Slower, Require Pilots/Freight Engines Yadda! Yadda! but this Beats NO Trains for a Month Not to mention the Millions of Dollars Amtrak will have to refund or Lose in Revenue on this Route! Stub Trains To/From CHI-Minnesota and SEA/PDX (a Bus in this Case!  )to Montana is Not Going to Fill these Trains, Only Lose even More Money! This Doesnt Even Include the People Out in the Boondocks that Depend on the EB for Transportation to Civilization!! Henry had a question on this Subject Last Month Asking What About Thinking Outside the Box Amtrak? What About It?????? :help: :help: :help:


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## jb64

Mark's prior post indicates that BNSF is predicting an outage of 10-14 days WITHOUT a big backlog of freight. If that is the case, EB should be running again before a month's time. We can hope, anyway.


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## Trogdor

jimhudson said:


> So with the EB being Shutdown for a Month (or More!  ) Why Not Have a Plan to Run the Builder on the Freight Lines that BNSF is Using like they Do whenever the High Line is Shutdown? Of Course it would be Slower, Require Pilots/Freight Engines Yadda! Yadda! but this Beats NO Trains for a Month Not to mention the Millions of Dollars Amtrak will have to refund or Lose in Revenue on this Route! Stub Trains To/From CHI-Minnesota and SEA/PDX (a Bus in this Case!  )to Montana is Not Going to Fill these Trains, Only Lose even More Money! This Doesnt Even Include the People Out in the Boondocks that Depend on the EB for Transportation to Civilization!! Henry had a question on this Subject Last Month Asking What About Thinking Outside the Box Amtrak? What About It?????? :help: :help: :help:


This question is asked every time, and the answer doesn't change:

The costs associated with this kind of a reroute would far exceed the potential revenue. These slower reroutes would require more equipment (due to the much slower speeds resulting in longer travel times), and trains would be delayed significantly. Further, you'd be missing so much of the route that you'd still have to cancel/refund many people's reservations (including those that live "out in the boondocks" as you say, as that's the area that would be largely skipped by such a reroute, and reroutes generally do not have any passenger facilities to serve people along the route).

That doesn't even count the fact that these freight lines are probably very congested now, with more traffic than they normally handle, and you'd suffer even greater delay.

Now, I don't know the details of this, but someone told me that a number of years ago, they tried doing this very thing, by rerouting some train over some obscure detour because of weather, and due to some problem or another (maybe the weather closure eventually got to the reroute trackage), they had a trainload of passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere with no staff within hundreds of miles to assist with getting people off the train and onto buses. Since then, Amtrak has tended to stick to a handful of standard detours that are in relatively good shape and won't cause too significant of a delay.

Just looking at a rail atlas and connecting the dots isn't a way to plan a detour with a passenger train.


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## PRR 60

I was watching a press conference from Minot yesterday, and the Mayor had some less than kind words for BNSF. Consistent with the BNSF release, the railroad kept one track open through Minot until yesterday (6/24). Answering a question about the continued rail activity and who had the authority to stop the trains, local officials said they had asked BNSF to curtail service so the tracks could be accessed for dike building and other emergency work. These same officials indicate the railroad did not respond to the request and the active track hindered their efforts.

I don't discount the possibility that the local officials in Minot are frustrated by a horrific situation that is out of their control, and in a small way, took it out on a convenient target. However, it shocked me that BNSF actually ran trains through Minot yesterday with flood water literally lapping at the rail (and a live feed showed one rolling through). I'd hate to think that moving one more train was more important to BNSF than helping people who are fighting to save their homes and businesses.


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## NJCoastExp

It has to be bad out there if my local news feed (Cablevision in NJ) has flooding in ND as second leading story in the lineup.


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## QueenCC

I spoke with Amtrak again this morning, and they still have trains scheduled for the week of July 9th... I can't believe they haven't cxl those yet..... Even if the water stops in the next day or so, it's going to take a while for it to all go back down, and once it does, one would think Amtrak would like to make sure the tracks are safe.... I hate being in limbo, because I can't change my plans for my return home from Washington in till I know what Amtrak is going to do....

I feel deeply for everyone living in the flooded area, and I wish them all the best in their recovery once this is over.....


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## Bob Dylan

PRR 60 said:


> I was watching a press conference from Minot yesterday, and the Mayor had some less than kind words for BNSF. Consistent with the BNSF release, the railroad kept one track open through Minot until yesterday (6/24). Answering a question about the continued rail activity and who had the authority to stop the trains, local officials said they had asked BNSF to curtail service so the tracks could be accessed for dike building and other emergency work. These same officials indicate the railroad did not respond to the request and the active track hindered their efforts.
> 
> I don't discount the possibility that the local officials in Minot are frustrated by a horrific situation that is out of their control, and in a small way, took it out on a convenient target. However, it shocked me that BNSF actually ran trains through Minot yesterday with flood water literally lapping at the rail (and a live feed showed one rolling through). I'd hate to think that moving one more train was more important to BNSF than helping people who are fighting to save their homes and businesses.


There's a Word for this: Greed!! :angry2:


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## sttsxm

thanks for posting this...i have family scheduled to take this eastbound later in July....I advised them to make a back up plan now...just in case.....easier than trying to scramble at the last minute.....

Hope everyone in the affected area is doing well..and again, thanks for all the links and photos....wow!


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## TraneMan

Looks like good news in a way, the river looks like it may be dropping down slowly after Sunday.


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## mwmnp

Amtrak station from what I suspect was Friday evening. The platform and tracks are behind the building.





Aerial photo of station





AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast

From Friday





Copyright: cu.minotdailynews.com

The BNSF mouse river bridges on Friday afternoon.





Copyright: cu.minotdailynews.com

Airboating above the tracks in front of the BNSF crew office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgK9X5rOkQw


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## Gingee

Oh that is awful. We came through there last month. I know as we came on the Empire Builder, there was water close to the track then and that was around May 24-25th. We have sure had a lousy summer so far. Rain every day and we don't even live up north. Feel for them.


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## albertaborn

First time train travellers - we're booked from Shelby MT to Seattle Aug. 12, return on Aug. 20. I've been following the flooding and am assuming our bookings are o.k. and shouldn't be affected - am I right? Haven't called Amtrak - yet - figure they're busy enough right now. In the opinion of those who have more knowledge/experience, will Amtrak continue with the service west from Havre to Seattle as long as there are issues in ND? Really, really looking forward to experiencing the train!

BTW, love this forum - lots of good info and knowledgeable advice! Thanks to all of you!


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## NY Penn

NY Times is reporting that the river has stopped rising.

NY Times Article


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## EB_OBS

albertaborn said:


> First time train travellers - we're booked from Shelby MT to Seattle Aug. 12, return on Aug. 20. I've been following the flooding and am assuming our bookings are o.k. and shouldn't be affected - am I right? Haven't called Amtrak - yet - figure they're busy enough right now. In the opinion of those who have more knowledge/experience, will Amtrak continue with the service west from Havre to Seattle as long as there are issues in ND? Really, really looking forward to experiencing the train!
> 
> BTW, love this forum - lots of good info and knowledgeable advice! Thanks to all of you!


Without making any promises of course, I'm gonna say you should be fine. Amtrak is currently operating a train between Havre, Mt and Seattle and passengers going to Portland can transfer to a bus in Spokane. By most accounts it's probable that the train will be making the entire route again by August 12th. Let's hope so.


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## mwmnp

anir dendroica said:


> BNSF washouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No mention of where this is, but I might guess the Devils Lake sub near Towner, ND.
> 
> Mark


You have to be a paying member of Trainorders to see the image you linked to, but taking a peek at a thumbnail and having watched the news story referenced, I am all but certain that that particular footage is from the washouts BNSF experienced last month in southeastern Montana. I know the CP tracks around Minot have at least one big washout, but I have not heard of any washouts along the BNSF tracks and really can't think of any flooded areas susceptible to one except for the Towner area. However, the tracks are still fine out in that area, as BNSF operated a few trains between Minot and Rugby this weekend.


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## MrFSS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFut_o6i9K8&feature=player_embedded#at=37


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## Ispolkom

For those not familiar with Minot, here's the rail bits:

At 2:58 you can see the Amtrak Depot surrounded by white sandbags (and water). Both BNSF and CP tracks are underwater in that area. The Depot just finished a long and extensive restoration.

4:25 to 4:40 those are CP tracks west of downtown

5:05 That's the CP line again heading west

6:19 Again the CP line


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## mwmnp

mwmnp said:


> However, the tracks are still fine out in that area, as BNSF operated a few trains between Minot and Rugby this weekend.


Not fine anymore. BNSF closed the Devils Lake Sub down near Towner today because of the extraordinarily high water now flowing that way from the Minot area. Due to the terrain in the Towner area, the Mouse River there tends to spread out and flow relatively slowly, ensuring the water will stay very high for several weeks or, perhaps, months.

BNSF suffered a bridge failure and a washout in the Towner area in April 2009 when the water reached 56.30 ft. The current level is 58 ft and is expected to rise to 61.5 feet on Wednesday. Prior to this year, the highest level ever recorded at Towner was 56.70 ft in 1976.


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## anir dendroica

mwmnp said:


> mwmnp said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, the tracks are still fine out in that area, as BNSF operated a few trains between Minot and Rugby this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> Not fine anymore. BNSF closed the Devils Lake Sub down near Towner today because of the extraordinarily high water now flowing that way from the Minot area. Due to the terrain in the Towner area, the Mouse River there tends to spread out and flow relatively slowly, ensuring the water will stay very high for several weeks or, perhaps, months.
> 
> BNSF suffered a bridge failure and a washout in the Towner area in April 2009 when the water reached 56.30 ft. The current level is 58 ft and is expected to rise to 61.5 feet on Wednesday. Prior to this year, the highest level ever recorded at Towner was 56.70 ft in 1976.
Click to expand...

Is the crossing on the KO at Verendrye high enough to stay out of trouble?


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## mwmnp

anir dendroica said:


> Is the crossing on the KO at Verendrye high enough to stay out of trouble?


I think so. The tracks in that area were engineered to have as small of a gradient as possible through the river valley, so there was a lot of fill put in on either side of the river to elevate the roadbed as well as a pretty high bridge constructed over the river. As I recall from visiting the historical monument to explorer David Thompson to the northeast, the bridge is perhaps 30 feet or more higher than the normal level of the river.


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## anir dendroica

33 pictures from BNSF today:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-27.pdf

My heart goes out to all those folks with homes on page 6 of that PDF.

Amazingly, the bridges in Minot look to be still in place beneath the flood, though whether they will be structurally sound is another matter. The Verendrye crossing is plenty high, though the water is above the concrete portion of the piers and BNSF has imposed a 10 mph slow order across it. The Devils Lake sub is within a foot or two of being overtopped, and with the water there having risen 2.5 feet since yesterday it may be under now.

Here's a map of the area for those unfamiliar. BNSF tracks are in red. The yellow and green highlighted areas are flooding.






Given that Towner is far downstream of Minot, I expect that the KO sub will reopen first. Then Amtrak will have to decide whether to run the EB over the KO sub (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or to wait for the Devils Lake line to reopen.

Mark


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## David

Thanks Mark!

We are taking the EB west bound on July 20th. Trying to figuure out when we need to make a decision about taking the Califironia Zephyr. We are limited and can only leave on July 20th. We have not taken a train before and trying to take a sightseeing train ride.

Has anyone been on the Cal Zephyr and Empire Builder? Would either be a great trip? We have a roomette.

Thanks - (this is my first post and just found these pages)

David


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## Altygrae

From what I'm reading on this and other forums, seeing on TV, and hearing on webcasts you should be fine on the Empire Builder. Both are great routes for sight seeing.


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## anir dendroica

David said:


> Thanks Mark!
> 
> We are taking the EB west bound on July 20th. Trying to figuure out when we need to make a decision about taking the Califironia Zephyr. We are limited and can only leave on July 20th. We have not taken a train before and trying to take a sightseeing train ride.
> 
> Has anyone been on the Cal Zephyr and Empire Builder? Would either be a great trip? We have a roomette.
> 
> Thanks - (this is my first post and just found these pages)
> 
> David


I don't think anyone knows if the EB will be running by the 20th - it all depends on the amount of damage to track and bridges once the waters recede. The Cal Zephyr is also less than certain - the Missouri River is forecast to remain near record flood stage through July. BNSF has so far managed to protect their tracks with levees and track raises, but I wouldn't be too surprised if that line closes.

Overall, on July 20, I'd say you have a 95% chance of success (i.e. no cancellations) with the Southwest Chief, 80% with the Cal Zephyr, and about 50% with the Empire Builder. Those are just my guesses based on past performance of the trains and examining the flood data. Others may have different estimates.

I just rescheduled my June 25 EB trip for July 29, with an option to reschedule for August 27 in the event that the trains aren't running yet.

Mark


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## EB_OBS

I just got the word that "Trains 7/27 - 8/28 Service adjustment now extended through/including July 12th."

This is hot off the presses so it may take a short while to filter down to stations, ticket agents, customer service and reservations.


----------



## CMH David

Been checking Amtrak site every now and then and it is now showing the July 20 sold out I think I need to think about other routes. Begining to lean towards SC any thoughts on it over CZ as far as more to see?


----------



## CMH David

My bad it is sold out on the 19th not the 20th yet


----------



## anir dendroica

New photos from BNSF:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-28.pdf

Looking at pp. 17-24, it appears that the river crossing near Towner will be out of service for some time after the water recedes.

Mark


----------



## QueenCC

So, I Just got off the phone with Amtrak about my return trip home on July 9th from Washington, and they told me that the 9th is the first day they should have the EB back running....


----------



## Dr. Sandi

I just called Amtrak about my July 15 reservation from Seattle to Milwaukee on the EB. I was told that the Jul 15 train hasn't yet been officially canceled, but that it's not looking very good. She could not guarantee that the train would run, so I very sadly canceled the reservation.

A look at the Amtrak reservation website shows "Travel Advisory" and "Sold Out" for the EB from Seattle through July 22, so I'm assuming they've got a pretty good idea that it's going to be a long outage.


----------



## CMH David

Just saw on AMTRAK facebook page the EB is temporarily suspended until further notice......link.... http://www.facebook....150223056176127


----------



## Ispolkom

Another picture of the Mouse River flooding, this one from space.


----------



## QueenCC

Just got a phone call from Amtrak that my return train on July 9th was cxl.... I spoke with a very nice lady on the phone and she rerouted me to another train to come home.. I'm now taking the Train: 11 Coast Starlight from Seattle to Sacramento, and the 6 California Zephyr from Sacramento to Chicago


----------



## anir dendroica

Rumor on the Trainorders board is that BNSF hopes to have the line open by July 17.


----------



## had8ley

anir dendroica said:


> 33 pictures from BNSF today:
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-27.pdf
> 
> My heart goes out to all those folks with homes on page 6 of that PDF.
> 
> Amazingly, the bridges in Minot look to be still in place beneath the flood, though whether they will be structurally sound is another matter. The Verendrye crossing is plenty high, though the water is above the concrete portion of the piers and BNSF has imposed a 10 mph slow order across it. The Devils Lake sub is within a foot or two of being overtopped, and with the water there having risen 2.5 feet since yesterday it may be under now.
> 
> Here's a map of the area for those unfamiliar. BNSF tracks are in red. The yellow and green highlighted areas are flooding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given that Towner is far downstream of Minot, I expect that the KO sub will reopen first. Then Amtrak will have to decide whether to run the EB over the KO sub (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or to wait for the Devils Lake line to reopen.
> 
> Mark


Hey Mark; nice piece of reporting. Only thing that wll save Amtrak service in this area is BNSF's desire to run freight trains...just hope there's room for a Builder in each direction !


----------



## anir dendroica

More flood photos from BNSF:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-06-30.pdf


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## CMH David

We decided to change our July 20th EB to the SWC - got the last roomette and had to book a flight to get to Vancouver on time for our cruise. Since we haven't been on a train before we won't know what we are missing on the EB. I'm sure that if our experience is good will want to do it sometime. Amtrak moved us no charge but didn't get "anything extra" should we have asked for something because of the inconivence and having to pay $300 for flights to get us where the EB was going to get us?


----------



## Eric308

CMH David said:


> We decided to change our July 20th EB to the SWC - got the last roomette and had to book a flight to get to Vancouver on time for our cruise. Since we haven't been on a train before we won't know what we are missing on the EB. I'm sure that if our experience is good will want to do it sometime. Amtrak moved us no charge but didn't get "anything extra" should we have asked for something because of the inconivence and having to pay $300 for flights to get us where the EB was going to get us?


Probably shouldn't expect anything for the inconvenience, BUT...it never hurts to ask. All the trains are great. Do the EB and the CZ some other time. I have a 9/21 EB ticket to PDX. Starting to even worry a bit about that. Good to have found this forum!


----------



## AlanB

CMH David said:


> Amtrak moved us no charge but didn't get "anything extra" should we have asked for something because of the inconivence and having to pay $300 for flights to get us where the EB was going to get us?


While I can understand that you didn't want the uncertainty of waiting, the fact that you were proactive in making the change before Amtrak officially cancelled the train, pretty much kills your getting anything extra. In fact, Amtrak could have charged you the going rate for rooms on the Zephyr, instead of honoring the same price you had for the Builder.

Of course waiting for them to cancel could have found you with no options, as things could well have been sold out on the other trains by then.


----------



## anir dendroica

BNSF has posted more photos of "Minot flooding." However most (or maybe all) of them are *NOT FROM MINOT* but were taken in Iowa (and not even on BNSF tracks) last year. Maybe BNSF is trying to impress on customers just how bad things are, but it seems more than a little disingenuous to post old photos from somewhere else as current photos from Minot.

Mark

Edit: Photos removed by BNSF


----------



## Altygrae

I prefer to think someone got the wrong file when uploading from Minot. The other set from the same day for Devils Lake look correct.

However being reminded of what it was like for Cedar Rapids Iowa in 2008 is not a bad thing for everyone experiencing flooding this year. CR had virtually no warning that the river was going to go as high as it did so had no time to throw up levees to keep the river even somewhat contained.

I'm hoping BNSF corrects the error (or maybe it was a hacker) soon.


----------



## Bruce-C

CMH David said:


> We decided to change our July 20th EB to the SWC - got the last roomette and had to book a flight to get to Vancouver on time for our cruise. Since we haven't been on a train before we won't know what we are missing on the EB. I'm sure that if our experience is good will want to do it sometime. Amtrak moved us no charge but didn't get "anything extra" should we have asked for something because of the inconivence and having to pay $300 for flights to get us where the EB was going to get us?


I'm assuming you have a July 23rd. sailing, right??

The only thing I would have done differently would have offered to make a July 19th. departure from Chicago. While reminding the agent of your sailing date, you might have gotten a smoking deal on a SWC and CS ticket.


----------



## anir dendroica

Devils Lake sub pictures:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-07-01a.pdf

Bridges look good, but lots of washed out track to fix.

Mark


----------



## Rail Freak

CMH David said:


> We decided to change our July 20th EB to the SWC - got the last roomette and had to book a flight to get to Vancouver on time for our cruise. Since we haven't been on a train before we won't know what we are missing on the EB. I'm sure that if our experience is good will want to do it sometime. Amtrak moved us no charge but didn't get "anything extra" should we have asked for something because of the inconivence and having to pay $300 for flights to get us where the EB was going to get us?


You're all set now! I know your pain & frustration!! Just keep in mind that not even Amtrak can control Mother Nature!!! AND, your 1st train ride is gonna be great !!!!

Have Fun


----------



## nybatt

Thanks to finding/reading this forum I acted on my July 11th EB tickets from CHI to SEA.

I was holding out hoping that the line would be open ten days from now, OR that amtrak would find a route to get past the flooded area. Viewing the pics posted in this thread two days ago prompted me to pick up the phone and make moves. I agree with many who believe these tracks are WEEKS away from any amtrak service.

It took over 90 minutes but I was able to work with an amtrak CSR and make my way to SEA via the CZ and CS in Sacramento. Amtrak was very helpful working with me and I believe I got the last couple of sleepers available! Regardless of price differences, Amtrak washed everything and I did not owe any extra.

I love the EB and have taken it from CHI to SEA before. While I am disappointed I will not be taking it next week (on my honeymoon, by the way) i am thrilled that I will not be flying any stretch of my travels.

So, thank you to this forum for the information and thank you to amtrak for working with me through a grueling process!!

DB

Wilmington, DEL.


----------



## Bob Dylan

:hi: Congrats on the CZ/CS Snag and the Honeymoon! Weve had a Couple of Members that had their Honeymoons on Amtrak including Ryan from WAS to the NW! You can Google up the Trip Reports, Ryan does Excellent Reports and Pics! IMO the CZ/CS :wub: is a Better Route than the Empire Builder, Best of Luck to You and your Fiancee!


----------



## Eric308

Just talked to a lovely Amtrak agent named Veronica re: the EB. I plan on leaving CBS on 9/21 and headed to PDX. She seemed to think that the continuous route would be up and running by 7/20 and surely by 8/1. She emphasized that after the water has subsided they have to allow enough time for the track bed to dry out for proper repairs if needed. Does this timeline make any sense to anyone else, or should I start make alternate travel plans?


----------



## nybatt

jimhudson said:


> :hi: Congrats on the CZ/CS Snag and the Honeymoon! Weve had a Couple of Members that had their Honeymoons on Amtrak including Ryan from WAS to the NW! You can Google up the Trip Reports, Ryan does Excellent Reports and Pics! IMO the CZ/CS :wub: is a Better Route than the Empire Builder, Best of Luck to You and your Fiancee!



thanks for the well-wishes jim!! we took the EB to Seattle a couple years ago, after that trip I knew she was a keeper!! our only regret on this trip is that we will go west and come back east following the same routes. That being said, I don't mind two trips through the rockies and the Pacific coast on the CS!!


----------



## anir dendroica

Eric308 said:


> Just talked to a lovely Amtrak agent named Veronica re: the EB. I plan on leaving CBS on 9/21 and headed to PDX. She seemed to think that the continuous route would be up and running by 7/20 and surely by 8/1. She emphasized that after the water has subsided they have to allow enough time for the track bed to dry out for proper repairs if needed. Does this timeline make any sense to anyone else, or should I start make alternate travel plans?


I can't think of any scenario, short of another flood, that would keep the line out of service past 8/10 or so. Little or no additional rain is predicted. Floodwaters should be below track level by around 7/7, might take a week after that for things to dry out. Track bed repairs are fast. Could be another couple of weeks if they need to repair/replace bridges. BNSF has a strong incentive to get the line open, so things should go pretty fast once the water recedes.

Mark


----------



## anir dendroica

From BNSF today:



> 07/01/2011
> Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding
> 
> As stated in the Service Advisory dated Friday, June 24, 2011, BNSF reported that both main tracks at Minot, North Dakota were closed to rail traffic due to flooding.
> 
> Main track one was removed from service 12:00 p.m. CT on June 22, 2011.
> 
> Main track two was removed from service 10:00 a.m. CT on June 24, 2011.
> 
> Based on current hydrological forecasts, BNSF estimates that water levels will recede to levels allowing main track two to be repaired and returned to service early the week of July 4th, 2011.
> 
> In anticipation of the opening of main track two, we will begin to route some trains over our north lines through Minot, North Dakota over this weekend; while some traffic will continue to run over the established reroutes.
> 
> Customers will continue experience 24-48 hours delays on traffic over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.
> 
> Please see bnsf.com/customers/weather-interruptions for maps and additional information. If you have any questions, please contact BNSF Customer Support at 1-888-428-2673 option 4, option 3.


I still don't expect to see Amtrak running before the 12th, but the situation is improving. The question will be whether Amtrak decides to resume service on the KO subdivision or whether they wait for the Devils Lake sub to reopen, which could be another 2-3 weeks.

Mark


----------



## Altygrae

Considering how full the EB tends to run at this time of year I would expect Amtrak will try and get trains running even if it is over an alternate route. That's what they did a couple of years ago when there was flooding on the Red river in Grand Forks.


----------



## SBee

I was booked on the EB from Portland to Chicago (then on to NY) on 6/15 and had backup refundable plane ticket. I was very happy that the train ran that day, but wasn't that stressed out since I knew I'd make my trip either way. The ride was LOVELY and the train fun - my first LD trip. I suggest making backup plans, just in case. Good luck!


----------



## Eric308

Just checked online with Amtrak for my CBS-PDX trip. First date with train up and running is now 7/20. My question is that why did the one-way coach fare go from $156 to $347? I thought only sleeper fares increased as the departure time got closer.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Eric308 said:


> Just checked online with Amtrak for my CBS-PDX trip. First date with train up and running is now 7/20. My question is that why did the one-way coach fare go from $156 to $347? I thought only sleeper fares increased as the departure time got closer.


Lots of people don't realize that Coach fares have Buckets also, the Fuller the Train, the Higher the Rail Fare! You only get the Low Bucket Rail Fare when you Book a Sleeper! This also applies to Rail Passes, there only only a Certain Number??? of Low Buket Coach Fares Available on Each Train! :help:


----------



## anir dendroica

Eric308 said:


> Just checked online with Amtrak for my CBS-PDX trip. First date with train up and running is now 7/20. My question is that why did the one-way coach fare go from $156 to $347? I thought only sleeper fares increased as the departure time got closer.


Coach fares have at least three buckets, possibly four. Getting a low-bucket price on the EB in the summer is almost impossible.


----------



## Eric308

jimhudson said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checked online with Amtrak for my CBS-PDX trip. First date with train up and running is now 7/20. My question is that why did the one-way coach fare go from $156 to $347? I thought only sleeper fares increased as the departure time got closer.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of people don't realize that Coach fares have Buckets also, the Fuller the Train, the Higher the Rail Fare! You only get the Low Bucket Rail Fare when you Book a Sleeper! This also applies to Rail Passes, there only only a Certain Number??? of Low Buket Coach Fares Available on Each Train! :help:
Click to expand...

Gotcha...but does that still apply even if there is no sleeper available? Man, that would mean that my r/t would be almost $700 coach if I booked today. So glad that I booked months ago and am not paying much more than that WITH a roomette. Hey, Jim....thanks for the clarification. As you can obviously tell I'm still in a learning phase here.


----------



## AlanB

anir dendroica said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checked online with Amtrak for my CBS-PDX trip. First date with train up and running is now 7/20. My question is that why did the one-way coach fare go from $156 to $347? I thought only sleeper fares increased as the departure time got closer.
> 
> 
> 
> Coach fares have at least three buckets, possibly four. Getting a low-bucket price on the EB in the summer is almost impossible.
Click to expand...

Coach has 4 buckets, sleepers have 5.


----------



## mwmnp

Maintenance crews on Friday started busily working at getting the tracks through Minot back into operable condition. Per a BNSF employee at Minot, BNSF tentatively plans to have one track open through Minot by tomorrow (*July 3rd*) afternoon.


----------



## Trogdor

Eric308 said:


> Gotcha...but does that still apply even if there is no sleeper available? Man, that would mean that my r/t would be almost $700 coach if I booked today. So glad that I booked months ago and am not paying much more than that WITH a roomette. Hey, Jim....thanks for the clarification. As you can obviously tell I'm still in a learning phase here.



Coach and sleeper buckets work independently of each other.

If you're in coach, you pay whatever the prevailing coach bucket rate is. If you're in a sleeper, you pay whatever the prevailing sleeper accommodation charge bucket is, plus a rail fare per person equivalent to the lowest coach bucket for that segment.


----------



## Eric308

Trogdor said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotcha...but does that still apply even if there is no sleeper available? Man, that would mean that my r/t would be almost $700 coach if I booked today. So glad that I booked months ago and am not paying much more than that WITH a roomette. Hey, Jim....thanks for the clarification. As you can obviously tell I'm still in a learning phase here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coach and sleeper buckets work independently of each other.
> 
> If you're in coach, you pay whatever the prevailing coach bucket rate is. If you're in a sleeper, you pay whatever the prevailing sleeper accommodation charge bucket is, plus a rail fare per person equivalent to the lowest coach bucket for that segment.
Click to expand...

Thanks! How come sometimes the family bedroom is cheaper than a roomette?


----------



## Trogdor

Eric308 said:


> How come sometimes the family bedroom is cheaper than a roomette?


Each type of sleeper accommodation works separately for buckets, as well. The lower buckets of a family room may be cheaper than the high buckets of a roomette for a given city pair.


----------



## mwmnp

mwmnp said:


> Maintenance crews on Friday started busily working at getting the tracks through Minot back into operable condition. Per a BNSF employee at Minot, BNSF tentatively plans to have one track open through Minot by tomorrow (*July 3rd*) afternoon.


Turns out that was too optimistic of a plan and the tracks remain closed. Nevertheless, BNSF and contractors are working very hard on raising the track and getting the subgrade dry in order to run trains through Minot again. From what I heard, BNSF seems to be so committed to getting at least one track open as quick as possible that trains may be running with water still high enough to touch the ties. Several trains are already waiting on either side of the flooded area in anticipation of the reopening.

Picture of the Mouse River bridges on Friday, when work began in earnest to reopen one of the tracks.





Copyright: cu.minotdailynews.com


----------



## anir dendroica

I would hate to be the engineer of the first train across that bridge. I suppose they will push some loaded cars across it first as a makeshift "inspection".

Mark


----------



## js

Planning to travel East on the EB leaving July 14th. So far I am 'reassured' by Amtrak that all is good. Any on the ground updates as to the track status and repair progress?


----------



## Shanghai

From various photos I have seen, it is going to take a great deal of work and time

to restore the tracks for passenger service.


----------



## jb64

Can you tell me what requirements differ for passenger service as opposed to freight? I honestly don't know and am curious. If BNSF thinks they can have trains moving by the end of this week, what more will need to be done to get Amtrak moving across these lines? I have an upcoming trip on the EB and therefore have an interest as to whether we will be going via alternate transportation.

Thanks,


----------



## jmbgeg

Trogdor said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How come sometimes the family bedroom is cheaper than a roomette?
> 
> 
> 
> Each type of sleeper accommodation works separately for buckets, as well. The lower buckets of a family room may be cheaper than the high buckets of a roomette for a given city pair.
Click to expand...

I have found family bedrooms below deluxe bedrooms with like regularity.


----------



## anir dendroica

jb64 said:


> Can you tell me what requirements differ for passenger service as opposed to freight? I honestly don't know and am curious. If BNSF thinks they can have trains moving by the end of this week, what more will need to be done to get Amtrak moving across these lines? I have an upcoming trip on the EB and therefore have an interest as to whether we will be going via alternate transportation.
> 
> Thanks,


I imagine that BNSF will want to do a more careful inspection of the bridges before letting Amtrak across. But with the river dropping steadily, that should be complete by the end of the week. The next question is whether Amtrak will re-start service using the direct route from Minot to Fargo (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or whether they will wait for the line through Devils Lake to reopen. The Devils Lake line crosses the Souris River near Towner, and the track in that area is in pretty bad shape. Furthermore, since Towner is about 60 miles downstream of Minot, it will take longer for the river to recede there.

Photos taken near Towner on June 30:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-07-01a.pdf

Mark


----------



## bretton88

Well, Amtrak has the train sold out until the 19th, thats probably a bad sign for travel beforehand.


----------



## Amtrak George

PASSENGER TRAINS AND HIGH WATER: The line will be okay for freight for _at least_ several days before it is opened for passenger. It is okay as a calculated risk to tiptoe through high water with cargo, but running a trainload of passengers through track that you can barely see and that may be undermined is too dangerous for BNSF to take a risk. In addition, there will be so many slow orders, and soft track, as well as a bunch of freights that are taking forever to traverse their runs. This line is already running at capacity when it is dry. With Amtrak's equipment shortage and long crew districts, they can't afford to literally run a day late. That said, I'm still hoping things get better ASAP!


----------



## Eric308

bretton88 said:


> Well, Amtrak has the train sold out until the 19th, thats probably a bad sign for travel beforehand.


I find that to be a strange coincidence...I think they are just saying "sold out" and don't actually plan on running until then.


----------



## Carol

Thank you all so much, for sharing the information that you have.

When I first became aware of the probable impact of the flooding on a July 9 EB trip, I used Google and found this thread. By reading it, and the online Minot newspaper, I was able to decide that I'd better make alternate travel plans. By the time the call came from Amtrak cancelling my train I had decided to drive the 1400 miles instead and had taken the steps to make that happen. My daughter and I have taken the EB the last couple of summers - Seattle to Fargo. We loved it and will miss this year's trip. We'll hope that next year will bring no flooding.


----------



## Bruce-C

anir dendroica said:


> jb64 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me what requirements differ for passenger service as opposed to freight? I honestly don't know and am curious. If BNSF thinks they can have trains moving by the end of this week, what more will need to be done to get Amtrak moving across these lines? I have an upcoming trip on the EB and therefore have an interest as to whether we will be going via alternate transportation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine that BNSF will want to do a more careful inspection of the bridges before letting Amtrak across. But with the river dropping steadily, that should be complete by the end of the week. The next question is whether Amtrak will re-start service using the direct route from Minot to Fargo (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or whether they will wait for the line through Devils Lake to reopen. The Devils Lake line crosses the Souris River near Towner, and the track in that area is in pretty bad shape. Furthermore, since Towner is about 60 miles downstream of Minot, it will take longer for the river to recede there.
> 
> Photos taken near Towner on June 30:
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/...2011-07-01a.pdf
> 
> Mark
Click to expand...

I would have to think that the Corp of Engineers would have something to say about the bridge inspections and declaring them OK for any use. The last thing anyone needs is a freight car in the drink.


----------



## mwmnp

After nearly 10 and a half days of being out of service, one of the tracks through Minot was reopened at around 9:00 PM Central Time on Monday, July 4. Since then, a continuous fleet of freight trains has traversed the still-soggy tracks through the city. The trains are being asked to go 10 mph east of the Mouse River bridge and at a walking speed west of the bridge. So far, so good.


----------



## Eric308

mwmnp said:


> After nearly 10 and a half days of being out of service, one of the tracks through Minot was reopened at around 9:00 PM Central Time on Monday, July 4. Since then, a continuous fleet of freight trains has traversed the still-soggy tracks through the city. The trains are being asked to go 10 mph east of the Mouse River bridge and at a walking speed west of the bridge. So far, so good.


That's excellent news and we appreciate the updates. Are you actually there in Minot?


----------



## Nickrapak

anir dendroica said:


> I imagine that BNSF will want to do a more careful inspection of the bridges before letting Amtrak across. But with the river dropping steadily, that should be complete by the end of the week. The next question is whether Amtrak will re-start service using the direct route from Minot to Fargo (bypassing Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks) or whether they will wait for the line through Devils Lake to reopen. The Devils Lake line crosses the Souris River near Towner, and the track in that area is in pretty bad shape. Furthermore, since Towner is about 60 miles downstream of Minot, it will take longer for the river to recede there.
> 
> Photos taken near Towner on June 30:
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-07-01a.pdf
> 
> Mark


Those photos look really bad. There is probably several million dollars worth of damage there, and since it's not a priority route for BNSF, it might take a while before it gets repaired. We will probably be seeing the Minot-Fargo bypass operating for a long time.


----------



## anir dendroica

From BNSF today:



> 07/05/2011
> Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding
> 
> To: All Impacted Customers July 5, 2011
> 
> Update Report: Minot, North Dakota Area Flooding
> 
> As stated in the Service Advisory issued Friday, June 24, 2011, BNSF reported that both main tracks at Minot, North Dakota were closed to rail traffic due to flooding.
> 
> - Main track two returned to service 9:00 p.m. CT on July 4, 2011
> 
> - Main track one is estimated to return to service at midweek
> 
> Customers will continue experience 24-48 hours delays on traffic over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.
> 
> Please see bnsf.com/customers/weather-interruptions for maps and additional information. If you have any questions, please contact BNSF Customer Support at 1-888-428-2673 option 4, option 3.


----------



## mwmnp

Eric308 said:


> mwmnp said:
> 
> 
> 
> After nearly 10 and a half days of being out of service, one of the tracks through Minot was reopened at around 9:00 PM Central Time on Monday, July 4. Since then, a continuous fleet of freight trains has traversed the still-soggy tracks through the city. The trains are being asked to go 10 mph east of the Mouse River bridge and at a walking speed west of the bridge. So far, so good.
> 
> 
> 
> That's excellent news and we appreciate the updates. Are you actually there in Minot?
Click to expand...

No, I've actually been following along using an online audio feed and updates from a BNSF employee I know in Minot.


----------



## CMH David

I do hope the EB is up and running soon but we did decide to change our plans for July 20th. Since our cruise leaves from Vancouver on July 23rd and we couldn't leave before 20th we decided to take the Southwest Chief on July 20th. We got the last roomette. We seriously considered the CZ but plane flights, price and timing worked out best to take the SC and end our train trip in Los Angeles and then catch a flight to Vancouver. When I called Amtrak they did not charge us any extra due to the travel disruption. So while the EB might be back running on July 20th I didn't want to take the chance that it would not being running and not find out until all the roomettes were gone on other trains and flights would have been too pricy becasue of it being less than two weeks out.

Since this is our first train trip are we suppose to tip the SCA and if so how much?


----------



## Eric308

CMH David said:


> I do hope the EB is up and running soon but we did decide to change our plans for July 20th. Since our cruise leaves from Vancouver on July 23rd and we couldn't leave before 20th we decided to take the Southwest Chief on July 20th. We got the last roomette. We seriously considered the CZ but plane flights, price and timing worked out best to take the SC and end our train trip in Los Angeles and then catch a flight to Vancouver. When I called Amtrak they did not charge us any extra due to the travel disruption. So while the EB might be back running on July 20th I didn't want to take the chance that it would not being running and not find out until all the roomettes were gone on other trains and flights would have been too pricy becasue of it being less than two weeks out.
> 
> Since this is our first train trip are we suppose to tip the SCA and if so how much?


I really don't know the guidelines....I usually slip them $20 from CBS (Columbus, WI) to PDX (two nights), and the same on the return leg. However, if the service is exemplary like it was my last return trip from Seattle, I tip more. She was so great I gave her $40. Some folks suggest paying up front for better service, but to me, that's not a tip. What if you get a real slouch regardless?


----------



## mwmnp

The first train through the flood zone was a test train of sorts containing approximately 50 cars loaded with rock (ballast). Here is a picture:





Minot, ND by kodachrome9319, on Flickr

The Amtrak station is visible in the background. Previous aerial photos taken during the worst of the flood showed that some water had breached the levee and started flooding the station. I have not seen a confirmation of how bad the damage is, but rumor is it came up about 4 inches on the ground level and presumably swamped the entire basement. This is particularly disappointing, since an extensive exterior and interior renovation that took 7 or so years to turn into a reality was completed just last year. The facility is owned by BNSF.

The Minot Daily News recognized the BNSF tracks reopening in an article in the Tuesday newspaper.

On an entirely different subject, but not exactly surprising since any good news on the Northern Transcon seems to have to be matched this year by bad news, 10 cars on a corn train derailed east of Havre on Tuesday afternoon. According to local media, the tracks will likely be shut down for 24 hours, which will only worsen the backlog of trains on the line.


----------



## js

This looks rather daunting! Still hoping to travel eastbound on the EB, leaving PDX on July 14th. Am I dreaming? I HATE to cancel and fly instead. The Amtrak site has nothing new posted as of this evening. Any advice from those in the know?


----------



## Eric308

js said:


> This looks rather daunting! Still hoping to travel eastbound on the EB, leaving PDX on July 14th. Am I dreaming? I HATE to cancel and fly instead. The Amtrak site has nothing new posted as of this evening. Any advice from those in the know?


I would call Amtrak...ask for Veronica. She has been EXTREMELY helpful and patient.


----------



## anir dendroica

Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.

Mark


----------



## Eric308

anir dendroica said:


> Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.
> 
> Mark


Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.


----------



## zephyr17

Eric308 said:


> anir dendroica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.


----------



## Eric308

zephyr17 said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anir dendroica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.


----------



## NY Penn

The tremendous backup of freight trains in the area would probably add more delays than any detour or shortcut possibly could.


----------



## Ryan

Eric308 said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anir dendroica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per a BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group, BNSF expects the Devils Lake sub to return to service July 13.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Mark...please explain what that means. Is it re-routing or what? What are the towns? Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.
Click to expand...

The Devil's Lake sub is the usual route of the Empire Builder, so it won't add any time (outside of all the time that will be lost because of slow orders).


----------



## AlanB

Eric308 said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.
Click to expand...

No, the Souris River after impacting Minot actually swings around and head back north to Canada. In doing so it impacted the Devils Lake sub causing major issues. If you look at one of the sets of photos linked to earlier in this topic, I think it was the ones from the 18th, you can see major flooding over the tracks near Towner.

That's on top of the ongoing problems with Devils Lake and its continued rise affecting the tracks.


----------



## Eric308

AlanB said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Devil's Lake Sub is a secondary line that Amtrak uses to serve Rugby, Devil's Lake and Grand Forks. The mainline is the Surrey, or KO, sub that cuts diagonally between Minot and Fargo through New Rockford.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks...I just found a ND railroad map and see exactly. Any idea how much time that would add? I had thought that the only problem was in the Minot area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the Souris River after impacting Minot actually swings around and head back north to Canada. In doing so it impacted the Devils Lake sub causing major issues. If you look at one of the sets of photos linked to earlier in this topic, I think it was the ones from the 18th, you can see major flooding over the tracks near Towner.
> 
> That's on top of the ongoing problems with Devils Lake and its continued rise affecting the tracks.
Click to expand...

Thanks again. Finally figuring this all out. Now I know the Mouse and the Souris are one in the same. That really had me confused for awhile. If nothing else, I found a great site and am breathing a little easier re: my 9/21 trip to PDX/SEA and return on the EB.


----------



## michael Moffitt

Looks like BNSF is getting back to some sense of more normal ops thru Minot:

As stated in the Service Advisory issued Friday, July 5, 2011, BNSF reported that main track one at Minot, North Dakota remained closed to rail traffic due to flooding.

·	Main track two returned to service at 9:00 p.m. CT on July 4, 2011

·	Main track one was returned to service at 6:30 p.m. CT on July 6, 2011

Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.


----------



## Kyeperk

Just spoke with Amtrak Customer service tonight for the EB trip from Seattle to Chicago leaving 7/21. They didn't have a lot of info, but the woman I spoke to said it was iffy. Don

't know how much credence to put into what I heard. The forums here seem to be more on top of everything. At least that is what I hope.


----------



## Paul

Spoke to Amtrak rep today- EB canceled until the 13th. Amtrak will decide on the12th if additional cancelations are required.


----------



## GlobalistPotato

michael Moffitt said:


> Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.


Amtrak is one of those "customers", and they don't want to send in the Empire Builder just to see it get super-delayed.


----------



## Altygrae

GlobalistPotato said:


> michael Moffitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Customers will continue to experience 12-24 hour traffic delays over the next week as crews and equipment are returned to balance, and congestion from the track outage is alleviated.
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak is one of those "customers", and they don't want to send in the Empire Builder just to see it get super-delayed.
Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense but if it only takes about a week then the resumption of EB on the 14th is a reasonable guess.

I'll keep watching these sites to see who finally reports a successful through trip in either direction. Hoping we can get through on the 23rd of this month.


----------



## CyBorg

I am hoping to leave the 15th from LaCrosse, WI for Williston.


----------



## js

I cancelled the eastbound portion of our trip on the EB (from PDX to MKE) as we were scheduled to depart on July 14th and it didn't look likely. I had NO problem with the refund. We are still holding on to our return ticket (scheduled for July 28th) and I sincerely hope that things are worked out by then.

If anyone makes it through on the EB please post re: your experience. Thanks!


----------



## Eric308

js said:


> I cancelled the eastbound portion of our trip on the EB (from PDX to MKE) as we were scheduled to depart on July 14th and it didn't look likely. I had NO problem with the refund. We are still holding on to our return ticket (scheduled for July 28th) and I sincerely hope that things are worked out by then.
> 
> If anyone makes it through on the EB please post re: your experience. Thanks!


According to the schedule, the first EB from PDX to CHI is on 7/15/11 and is "sold out". Any before that are routed on the CS/CZ. We shall see. I can't wait to hear from the first EB complete trip passenger.


----------



## CyBorg

That wil be me! I got stuck in Montana one time and on the way back to LaCrosse, WI everybody, their brother and dog must have got stuck in Seattle.


----------



## bretton88

How official is this July 14th date? I would love to know as a friend is booked on July 16th MSP-PDX.


----------



## Eric308

bretton88 said:


> How official is this July 14th date? I would love to know as a friend is booked on July 16th MSP-PDX.


There is no departure listed from MSP on 7/14....when you plug it in, it bumps it to 7/15. 7/16 is scheduled with a sold out train.


----------



## Altygrae

What I'm wondering is if the train is really sold out or is that just Amtrak's way of dealing with not selling any more seats on a train the will in all probability be cancelled. The short leg where the EB splits show available seats but not the long haul until July 20.


----------



## CyBorg

I am getting that the train status past MSP won't go past the 14th.


----------



## CyBorg

Crap!


----------



## Eric308

Altygrae said:


> What I'm wondering is if the train is really sold out or is that just Amtrak's way of dealing with not selling any more seats on a train the will in all probability be cancelled. The short leg where the EB splits show available seats but not the long haul until July 20.


That's exactly what I mentioned a bunch of posts back.(#97)


----------



## mp-44

just got off the phone with Amtrak as I have a reservation for the 23rd westbound 7 they tell me they are taking reservations for that day so it seem they plan to run but also told me they would call me if plans change.


----------



## Lorne

mp-44 said:


> just got off the phone with Amtrak as I have a reservation for the 23rd westbound 7 they tell me they are taking reservations for that day so it seem they plan to run but also told me they would call me if plans change.


I received a call from Amtrak today canceling my July 15 reservation from Shelby, MT to Grand Forks, ND. They said they hoped to be back in operation around July 21

Lorne


----------



## Brucie Bonus

There is nothing shown now on the Amtrak website re delays or cancellations on the Empire Builder, so now assume all is back to normal.


----------



## CyBorg

I called Amtak this morning. They are scheduled to run from LaCrosse WI to Williston, ND the 15th but to call the night before to confirm for sure.


----------



## Al Wussler

The wife and I are flying to Portland on July 12th to see a nephew, then take the Cascades to SEA on the 13th to meet our daughter and son-in-law for a trip on the EB to MSP. However, we have a 3 day stopover planned at Glacier NP so will not be (hopefully) boarding the EB for the eastbound trip through the problem area until July 17th a.m. I called Amtrak on Saturday and they told me service is cancelled through the 14th. We will call them that day from Izaak Walton Inn to see if the service has actually resumed. If not, we will probably go Essex to Havre, then get back on the train for the westbound trip back to Seattle. We'll have to change our airline reservations and are hoping there are still four seats on a late night Delta flight to Atlanta out of Seattle on July 18th if we have to "turn back" from Essex/Havre. Mole Chaser.


----------



## Eric308

Al Wussler said:


> The wife and I are flying to Portland on July 12th to see a nephew, then take the Cascades to SEA on the 13th to meet our daughter and son-in-law for a trip on the EB to MSP. However, we have a 3 day stopover planned at Glacier NP so will not be (hopefully) boarding the EB for the eastbound trip through the problem area until July 17th a.m. I called Amtrak on Saturday and they told me service is cancelled through the 14th. We will call them that day from Izaak Walton Inn to see if the service has actually resumed. If not, we will probably go Essex to Havre, then get back on the train for the westbound trip back to Seattle. We'll have to change our airline reservations and are hoping there are still four seats on a late night Delta flight to Atlanta out of Seattle on July 18th if we have to "turn back" from Essex/Havre. Mole Chaser.


Wow...that sounds like a logistical nightmare. Hope it is up and running to eliminate the "turn back" scenario. I'm going to PDX in September on the EB (hopefully), visiting my daughter (student at Lewis&Clark), then also doing the Cascades to SEA. Very coincidentally, I'm stopping over in Whitefish for two days before continuing home to Wisconsin (Madison). Please keep us posted as to the outcome of your trip. Hope it all works out.


----------



## Eric308

Brucie Bonus said:


> There is nothing shown now on the Amtrak website re delays or cancellations on the Empire Builder, so now assume all is back to normal.


Better check again...


----------



## Ispolkom

Looking at Amsnag, I'll bet that right now Amtrak isn't expecting to run trains between St. Paul and Havre until July 20, since they aren't selling sleeper space on the westbound Empire Builder until then. FWIW, I know that a group of private cars headed for the Rock Island Train Fest are supposed to be on July 19th's stub train between St. Paul and Chicago.

Of course, everything is subject to change without notice, and I'll gladly admit that the agents at Amtrak might know more than I do.


----------



## Bruce-C

Brucie Bonus said:


> There is nothing shown now on the Amtrak website re delays or cancellations on the Empire Builder, so now assume all is back to normal.


This is from the Amtrak site 7/12. http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1237608335997

The notice is unchanged.


----------



## jshand

I'm really stuck on what I should do. My fiance and I booked a train from Grand Forks, ND, to Portland, OR, then all the flooding hit. Our train is supposed to leave July 21st, which seems to be the earliest day the EB might get going again.

We're thinking that our options may be to drive from Winnipeg, MB to Havre, MT, and then catch the train from there, or, just reschedule. The problem with that is we're worried that the hotel might not let us cancel/re-book for a later date. Who knows, the trains for a later date may even be sold out.

Thoughts/suggestions? Is there even somewhere I can park my car for 10 days in Havre?


----------



## Eric308

jshand said:


> I'm really stuck on what I should do. My fiance and I booked a train from Grand Forks, ND, to Portland, OR, then all the flooding hit. Our train is supposed to leave July 21st, which seems to be the earliest day the EB might get going again.
> 
> We're thinking that our options may be to drive from Winnipeg, MB to Havre, MT, and then catch the train from there, or, just reschedule. The problem with that is we're worried that the hotel might not let us cancel/re-book for a later date. Who knows, the trains for a later date may even be sold out.
> 
> Thoughts/suggestions? Is there even somewhere I can park my car for 10 days in Havre?


I would call Amtrak and try to get something more concrete. I'm also sure you could park your car in Havre. Here's the station number. Most Amtrak stations have "long term parking". 1-406-265-5381


----------



## jshand

Eric308 said:


> jshand said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really stuck on what I should do. My fiance and I booked a train from Grand Forks, ND, to Portland, OR, then all the flooding hit. Our train is supposed to leave July 21st, which seems to be the earliest day the EB might get going again.
> 
> We're thinking that our options may be to drive from Winnipeg, MB to Havre, MT, and then catch the train from there, or, just reschedule. The problem with that is we're worried that the hotel might not let us cancel/re-book for a later date. Who knows, the trains for a later date may even be sold out.
> 
> Thoughts/suggestions? Is there even somewhere I can park my car for 10 days in Havre?
> 
> 
> 
> I would call Amtrak and try to get something more concrete. I'm also sure you could park your car in Havre. Here's the station number. Most Amtrak stations have "long term parking". 1-406-265-5381
Click to expand...

Thanks! I just got off the phone with Amtrak, and the lady checked and told me they're expecting it to possibly start running again this Friday, and that the 21st looks like a very good possibility. I'll call them back on Friday and see if the train did run.


----------



## Eric308

jshand said:


> Eric308 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jshand said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really stuck on what I should do. My fiance and I booked a train from Grand Forks, ND, to Portland, OR, then all the flooding hit. Our train is supposed to leave July 21st, which seems to be the earliest day the EB might get going again.
> 
> We're thinking that our options may be to drive from Winnipeg, MB to Havre, MT, and then catch the train from there, or, just reschedule. The problem with that is we're worried that the hotel might not let us cancel/re-book for a later date. Who knows, the trains for a later date may even be sold out.
> 
> Thoughts/suggestions? Is there even somewhere I can park my car for 10 days in Havre?
> 
> 
> 
> I would call Amtrak and try to get something more concrete. I'm also sure you could park your car in Havre. Here's the station number. Most Amtrak stations have "long term parking". 1-406-265-5381
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks! I just got off the phone with Amtrak, and the lady checked and told me they're expecting it to possibly start running again this Friday, and that the 21st looks like a very good possibility. I'll call them back on Friday and see if the train did run.
Click to expand...

Great! Happy for you. Post up something if you get an update if it ran Friday.


----------



## Jeff

I was just at the St. Paul Amtrak station--they say Amtrak will make a determination on the 17th. I was also told they will not run on the KO line--so the Devils Lake route is going to have to be open before they will run.


----------



## michael Moffitt

I do believe the rail traffic is getting back to normal on the hi-line now. My BNSF contacts in MT say that BNSF freight traffic is almost back to normal scheduling now, that the water levels along the Souris River are coming down to below major flood stage (to be at moderate or minor by this weekend) and that even the Towner area is drying out. Not sure whether BNSF asked Amtrak to delay the restart of the EB due to the amount of freight that had been bottled up or if Amtrak just decided to wait longer to minimize the inevitable delays after the restart. I know the folks in MT have lost a huge amount of tourist $$$ by not having the thru EB from Chicago.


----------



## anir dendroica

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/209481/

"several more days"...

They're definitely waiting for the Devils Lake line to reopen before restarting service. I hope that Amtrak will be willing to use the KO detour during the 6+ months required to raise the track near Devils Lake. If not, that will be a very long service suspension 

Mark


----------



## anir dendroica

Recent post on the EB Yahoo Group:



> Nothing new on the Amtrak website, but the expected opening date for the Devils
> 
> Lake subdivision at Towner, between Minot and Rugby is Sunday, July 17.
> 
> Evidently, Amtrak doesn't want to start running the train all the way until it
> 
> can use this route.
> 
> This is perplexing because BNSF is no longer detouring any trains away from
> 
> Minot. I assumed that there would be some delay in getting back to the full
> 
> traffic pattern (if for no other reason that some of the operating people lost
> 
> their homes to the flood), but that wasn't the case. In fact, BNSF has even
> 
> hosted a CP detour train from Minneapolis to Minot.
> 
> So, it's odd that Amtrak considers the KO unworthy to host the train. Besides,
> 
> it's not like the route through Devils Lake will be without slow track....
> 
> Very sad....
> 
> --Mark M.


----------



## Steve

As of tonight Amtrak is telling me that EB is running from SEA but they are still using buses from PDX to Spokane. Anyone know what is going on? If the line in open through Minot why would Amtrak be operating the SEA leg but not the PDX one?


----------



## Altygrae

anir dendroica said:


> http://www.grandfork...icle/id/209481/
> 
> "several more days"...
> 
> They're definitely waiting for the Devils Lake line to reopen before restarting service. I hope that Amtrak will be willing to use the KO detour during the 6+ months required to raise the track near Devils Lake. If not, that will be a very long service suspension
> 
> Mark


They may be waiting for the Devils Lake sub to reopen but I shouldn't think it would take 6 months more like 6 days. Here's what the BNSF website said about "Proactive Measures":

Creston subdivision - BNSF has raised two mainline tracks up to 8 feet in order to remain in service. Levees have been built to 6 feet above top of rail along both sides of the track and portions of the roadbed have been armored with rip rap (boulder-size rock.) BNSF has filled 160,000 sandbags to be used on the levees if needed.

Glasgow subdivision - BNSF has raised track a total of 5 feet in order to remain in service. Over 300 cars of ballast and rip rap were used to raise and fortify the track.

This didn't take months to complete as the Missouri came up almost as fast as the Souris/Mouse river. Still hoping that the EB is running on the 20th as that means it will probably be running on our start date of the 23rd of this month.

There is also something in the works that sounds like they (BNSF and Amtrak) plan to totally rebuild the tracks along this flood prone stretch.


----------



## JayPea

Steve said:


> As of tonight Amtrak is telling me that EB is running from SEA but they are still using buses from PDX to Spokane. Anyone know what is going on? If the line in open through Minot why would Amtrak be operating the SEA leg but not the PDX one?



Amtrak is not running the EB through from Chicago to Seattle yet. It's still running Seattle-Havre(and back) on the west end and Chicago-Minneapolis/St. Paul (and back) on the east. They will have to do this until the EB is restarted in full due to lack of equipment.


----------



## PRR 60

Altygrae said:


> anir dendroica said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.grandfork...icle/id/209481/
> 
> "several more days"...
> 
> They're definitely waiting for the Devils Lake line to reopen before restarting service. I hope that Amtrak will be willing to use the KO detour during the 6+ months required to raise the track near Devils Lake. If not, that will be a very long service suspension
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> They may be waiting for the Devils Lake sub to reopen but I shouldn't think it would take 6 months more like 6 days. Here's what the BNSF website said about "Proactive Measures":
Click to expand...

The six month job is the $100 million project to permanently raise the line, including bridges. BNSF and Amtrak have each pledged 1/3 of the cost. The last 1/3 is waiting for someone to step up (state, fed, Bill Gates, etc.).


----------



## chamilton

I just spoke with Amtrak about the EB from CHI-SEA on the 19th, and they said that it is "definitely not running."


----------



## Steve

I just spoke to Amtrak again. It not lack of equipment. As of today sleeper service is running out of SEA and they are running a stub train out of PDX. They have the cars here in Portland but are not running the sleepers to Spokane only because there aren't enough passengers.

She seems pretty shoddy to me. We booked and paid for a sleeper but they are not going to provide sleeper service even though they have the ability to do so. Its purely a cost saving decision.

This was directly from the Amtrak agent.


----------



## DC

I sure hope the EB is running for my CHI-East Glacier trip in early September. What do you suppose the chances are that I will need to find an alternate way to Montana?


----------



## jshand

The myriad dates they seem to be giving out regarding the re-start of the EB in North Dakota and Montana is crazy. I would love it if we heard the same "possible running date" from various agents.


----------



## mp-44

they are selling tickets on their website for the 20th on and no service alert flag so I don't know. I am suppose to be on the 23rd from CHI to ESM I might still drive from VA. TAKE 3 DAYS


----------



## michael Moffitt

The Devil's Lake Sub is definitely still out--and BNSF is working on repairs--not a large area that needs fixing, but still it has knocked out the entire sub according to my BNSF contact in Montana. They wouldn't give me a firm estimate, but did say that the water levels had receded sufficiently for them to commence repairs several days ago. What puzzles me is that BNSF had offered the option to Amtrak to use the Surrey Cutoff and apparently Amtrak said no thanks--looks like they are holding the entire route hostage to fixing the mess around Devil's lake, which according to BNSF is indeed a huge, long term fix that will require many months (the $100 million dollar figure is low according to the BNSF folks).

Sad to see the politics of this mess getting in the way of providing service to the people.


----------



## michael Moffitt

DC said:


> I sure hope the EB is running for my CHI-East Glacier trip in early September. What do you suppose the chances are that I will need to find an alternate way to Montana?


Just so you are aware--The Park plans on closing the Going to the Sun Road (Alpine Section) in mid-september this year for re-construction efforts. Logan Pass will not be accessible via a vehicle after that


----------



## Dan1221

michael Moffitt said:


> DC said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope the EB is running for my CHI-East Glacier trip in early September. What do you suppose the chances are that I will need to find an alternate way to Montana?
> 
> 
> 
> Just so you are aware--The Park plans on closing the Going to the Sun Road (Alpine Section) in mid-september this year for re-construction efforts. Logan Pass will not be accessible via a vehicle after that
Click to expand...


Thanks... I'll be in the park September 5-7, so I'm guessing it will still be open. Crossing my fingers for the EB though, a one-way rental car from Chicago would be a budget buster.


----------



## anir dendroica

Photos of BNSF repair operations near Towner, east on Minot:

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/weather/2011-07-13.pdf

Track estimated to reopen July 17, per a BNSF employee.

Mark


----------



## jb64

anir dendroica said:


> Photos of BNSF repair operations near Towner, east on Minot:
> 
> http://www.bnsf.com/.../2011-07-13.pdf
> 
> Track estimated to reopen July 17, per a BNSF employee.
> 
> Mark


Thanks for keeping us updated, Mark!


----------



## EB_OBS

This just in.. EB to resume almost full service between Seattle, Portland and Chicago on July 17th and 18th.

Trains 8 & 28 will depart Sunday, July 17th to Chicago. Trains 7 & 27 will depart Chicago on Monday July 18th.

Unfortunately, there will be NO SERVICE to or from Minot, ND for the time being. It's tentatively out of service until July 31st. That might even be a bit optimistic. Apparently even some of the concrete platform washed away.


----------



## Dan1221

EB_OBS said:


> This just in.. EB to resume almost full service between Seattle, Portland and Chicago on July 17th and 18th.
> 
> Trains 8 & 28 will depart Sunday, July 17th to Chicago. Trains 7 & 27 will depart Chicago on Monday July 18th.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be NO SERVICE to or from Minot, ND for the time being. It's tentatively out of service until July 31st. That might even be a bit optimistic. Apparently even some of the concrete platform washed away.



Thank you! This is excellent news for me, not for anyone traveling to or from Minot though.


----------



## jb64

EB_OBS said:


> This just in.. EB to resume almost full service between Seattle, Portland and Chicago on July 17th and 18th.
> 
> Trains 8 & 28 will depart Sunday, July 17th to Chicago. Trains 7 & 27 will depart Chicago on Monday July 18th.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be NO SERVICE to or from Minot, ND for the time being. It's tentatively out of service until July 31st. That might even be a bit optimistic. Apparently even some of the concrete platform washed away.



Thanks for the update EB OBS. I'll be on 7/27 on 7/23 from Chi to WGL. Hope to see you!


----------



## mp-44

well that sounds like good news I still have a rental car waiting in the wings just in case by By the way who else is on this 23rd trip Sleeper or coach


----------



## jb64

mp-44 said:


> well that sounds like good news I still have a rental car waiting in the wings just in case by By the way who else is on this 23rd trip Sleeper or coach



I am. I'll be in the Portland sleeper.


----------



## brucie Bonus

Bruce-C said:


> Brucie Bonus said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing shown now on the Amtrak website re delays or cancellations on the Empire Builder, so now assume all is back to normal.
> 
> 
> 
> This is from the Amtrak site 7/12. http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1237608335997
> 
> The notice is unchanged.
Click to expand...

On the day I made the statement about the Amtrak website there was nothing there about the disruptions.


----------



## jshand

EB_OBS said:


> This just in.. EB to resume almost full service between Seattle, Portland and Chicago on July 17th and 18th.
> 
> Trains 8 & 28 will depart Sunday, July 17th to Chicago. Trains 7 & 27 will depart Chicago on Monday July 18th.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be NO SERVICE to or from Minot, ND for the time being. It's tentatively out of service until July 31st. That might even be a bit optimistic. Apparently even some of the concrete platform washed away.


This is great news! Is there a way to verify this with Amtrak? Or do you have a contact there? I'm really trying to find out if I need to reschedule my July 21st departure from Grand Forks.


----------



## jb64

I believe EB_OBS is really an OBS on the EB, so an Amtrak employee. Probably more verification than you will get from a ticket agent or Julie.


----------



## mp-44

I will be traveling with my grandson in 0731 #6 I am fulfilling a promise I made 5 years ago when we were at Glacier that when he graduated from high school I would take him back there. I keep my promises Will come into CHI on the CAP Sat AM.


----------



## jb64

mp-44 said:


> I will be traveling with my grandson in 0731 #6 I am fulfilling a promise I made 5 years ago when we were at Glacier that when he graduated from high school I would take him back there. I keep my promises Will come into CHI on the CAP Sat AM.


We are traveling together on both trains (29 and 7) then. I'll board in Was and will exit the EB at Glacier. (WGL) Taking my son and traveling with a friend and her son (both boys 13)


----------



## mp-44

grea I will be coming into Was on the VA.Regional from MSS The 2901 #2


----------



## Ryan

jb64 said:


> I believe EB_OBS is really an OBS on the EB, so an Amtrak employee. Probably more verification than you will get from a ticket agent or Julie.


I'm pretty sure that he's a manager of some type.


----------



## Oldsmoboi

Couldn't they just go to Lowes and buy up a bunch of dehumidifiers and place them next to the tracks?


----------



## Altygrae

EB_OBS said:


> This just in.. EB to resume almost full service between Seattle, Portland and Chicago on July 17th and 18th.
> 
> Trains 8 & 28 will depart Sunday, July 17th to Chicago. Trains 7 & 27 will depart Chicago on Monday July 18th.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be NO SERVICE to or from Minot, ND for the time being. It's tentatively out of service until July 31st. That might even be a bit optimistic. Apparently even some of the concrete platform washed away.


Thank you so much for passing this along. We're scheduled to head out of CHI to PDX on the 23rd so this is great news. I was pretty sure it would get open again soon but not sure if it would be soon enough for my trip.


----------



## westwardbound2011

Good the hear about EB. I'm going out to PDX from CHI on the 26th.


----------



## brucie Bonus

I have been following the saga of the Empire Builder with great interest as we are due to travel from Boston to Seattle in September and return in October. From what I read it seemed that there was a lack of solid information being issued about the track repairs etc. which obviously affected the timetable of Amtrak. As there is several companies involved I would have thought that 'somebody' could have issued joint statements as to exactly what was happening. This would have kept passengers informed and put their minds at ease. Communications seem to be the growth industry of the century, except in this case. I sincerely hope that from now on everybody gets to ride the Empire Builder as booked and travels on time.


----------



## Eric308

brucie Bonus said:


> I have been following the saga of the Empire Builder with great interest as we are due to travel from Boston to Seattle in September and return in October. From what I read it seemed that there was a lack of solid information being issued about the track repairs etc. which obviously affected the timetable of Amtrak. As there is several companies involved I would have thought that 'somebody' could have issued joint statements as to exactly what was happening. This would have kept passengers informed and put their minds at ease. Communications seem to be the growth industry of the century, except in this case. I sincerely hope that from now on everybody gets to ride the Empire Builder as booked and travels on time.


Well said. IMHO, this whole thing has been a cluster ___ since June 21. I also apologize for sounding like an armchair quarterback. However, it looks like we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## CHamilton

I just spoke with Amtrak, and they think the EB will be running CHI-SEA on the date of my reservation, July 19 -- but they advised me to keep a backup reservation in case the cancellation is continued. I'm to call again Friday or Saturday to confirm.


----------



## j83

Well, We are booked for the 28th, taking the capital limited from Toledo - Chicago, then onto Seattle on the Empire Builder! We were first booked June 2nd, then June 23rd, then July 8th.... We re-booked again this morning, it seems like we will finally be making it this time!! Fingers crossed!


----------



## jshand

Cool: http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20110714/NEWS01/110714008/Amtrak-restore-full-Empire-Builder-route-after-flooding


----------



## zephyr17

j83 said:


> Well, We are booked for the 28th, taking the capital limited from Toledo - Chicago, then onto Seattle on the Empire Builder! We were first booked June 2nd, then June 23rd, then July 8th.... We re-booked again this morning, it seems like we will finally be making it this time!! Fingers crossed!


According to a news release from Amtrak, the eastbound Builder departing Seattle and Portland this Sunday (7/17) will be the first through eastbound, and the westbound Builder departing Chicago this Monday(7/18) will be the first through westbound.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2015612727_webamtrak14.html


----------



## CHamilton

The Service Alert re the EB has now disappeared from the Amtrak website, so I called and cancelled my backup reservation (CHI-LAX-SEA). Looks like I'll be leaving CHI for SEA via #7 on Tuesday the 19th. Thanks to everyone at AU for all the updates while this was going on. Amtrak could learn from you about how to keep customers notified!


----------



## Eric308

CHamilton said:


> The Service Alert re the EB has now disappeared from the Amtrak website, so I called and cancelled my backup reservation (CHI-LAX-SEA). Looks like I'll be leaving CHI for SEA via #7 on Tuesday the 19th. Thanks to everyone at AU for all the updates while this was going on. Amtrak could learn from you about how to keep customers notified!


FYI....it seems that the earliest you can get to Minot now is 9/1.http://www.omaha.com/article/20110715/AP/707159870


----------



## DET63

Eric308 said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Service Alert re the EB has now disappeared from the Amtrak website, so I called and cancelled my backup reservation (CHI-LAX-SEA). Looks like I'll be leaving CHI for SEA via #7 on Tuesday the 19th. Thanks to everyone at AU for all the updates while this was going on. Amtrak could learn from you about how to keep customers notified!
> 
> 
> 
> FYI....it seems that the earliest you can get to Minot now is 9/1.http://www.omaha.com/article/20110715/AP/707159870
Click to expand...

From the article linked by Eric:



> Some good news arrived Thursday: The full eastbound Empire Builder route will re-open Sunday, after more than a month of service suspensions. Westbound trains will leave Chicago for Portland and Washington starting Monday.


I assume by "Washington" the writer of the article means "Seattle."



> Flooding around the Empire Builder line forced a 1,000-mile stretch of track to close between St. Paul, Minn., and north-central Montana. The full line runs from Chicago to Washington, then forks into Seattle and Portland. Without the Empire Builder, any passenger wanting to ride from Illinois to Montana would get rerouted — through California.


Here, presumably, "Washington" means "Spokane."


----------



## mwmnp

The latest disaster to affect the Empire Builder's route happened this morning slightly north of Minneapolis, where flash flooding from unusually heavy rainfall caused a bridge to collapse and overturn 17 loaded cars and 2 locomotives of a corn train. Though there are two main tracks and two separate bridges in this area, no trains are being allowed through until the derailed cars and leaking fuel from the locomotives can be cleaned up. The bridge that is still standing is also being carefully inspected to make sure it doesn't meet the same fate as the one next to it.

Here is a link to a news article, complete with photos and a video:

http://minnesota.cbs...ils-in-fridley/

Note that, if necessary, the Empire Builder can successfully detour around this site by taking a line that reaches Fargo by way of Willmar. The stops at St. Cloud, Staples, and Detroit Lakes would be bypassed by doing this, however. The detour route also necessitates the use of two BNSF pilots and includes well over 100 miles of 40 mph track.


----------



## Eric308

mwmnp said:


> The latest disaster to affect the Empire Builder's route happened this morning slightly north of Minneapolis, where flash flooding from unusually heavy rainfall caused a bridge to collapse and overturn 17 loaded cars and 2 locomotives of a corn train. Though there are two main tracks and two separate bridges in this area, no trains are being allowed through until the derailed cars and leaking fuel from the locomotives can be cleaned up. The bridge that is still standing is also being carefully inspected to make sure it doesn't meet the same fate as the one next to it.
> 
> Here is a link to a news article, complete with a photo of one of the derailed locomotives:
> 
> http://minnesota.cbs...ils-in-fridley/
> 
> Note that, if necessary, the Empire Builder can successfully detour around this site by taking a line that reaches Fargo by way of Willmar. The stops at St. Cloud, Staples, and Detroit Lakes would be bypassed by doing this, however. The detour route also necessitates the use of two BNSF pilots and includes well over 100 miles of 40 mph track.


Man, what a mess! There is no way anything is going through there for quite sometime.


----------



## xtwarrior

Ok, this is not good news. What kind of delays are expected? I am set to go through there on the Empire Builder the 22nd and I MUST be in Seattle for a cruise by 11AM on Saturday morning. My train was scheduled to come in around 10:25am Friday morning and my cruise ship leave Saturday morning.

Please let me know what to expect. Is there going to be that big of a delay to cause an issue? Will there be provisions to get around this? I've had tickets fro this trip for months, and this is my first time dealing with a trip like this let alone trains.

Thanks.


----------



## xtwarrior

xtwarrior said:


> Ok, this is not good news. What kind of delays are expected? I am set to go through there on the Empire Builder the 22nd and I MUST be in Seattle for a cruise by 11AM on Saturday morning. My train was scheduled to come in around 10:25am Friday morning and my cruise ship leave Saturday morning.
> 
> Please let me know what to expect. Is there going to be that big of a delay to cause an issue? Will there be provisions to get around this? I've had tickets fro this trip for months, and this is my first time dealing with a trip like this let alone trains.
> 
> Thanks.



UPDATE:

Called Amtrak and spoke to a representative. The scoop she gave me is this:

The bridge that collapsed is only to affect Amtrak trains 50 and 51.

My train (#7) is supposedly not affected by this at all. Which is great news because I was beginning to hyperventilate 

Figured I would just update this for those who would be interested.


----------



## AlanB

xtwarrior said:


> xtwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, this is not good news. What kind of delays are expected? I am set to go through there on the Empire Builder the 22nd and I MUST be in Seattle for a cruise by 11AM on Saturday morning. My train was scheduled to come in around 10:25am Friday morning and my cruise ship leave Saturday morning.
> 
> Please let me know what to expect. Is there going to be that big of a delay to cause an issue? Will there be provisions to get around this? I've had tickets fro this trip for months, and this is my first time dealing with a trip like this let alone trains.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> Called Amtrak and spoke to a representative. The scoop she gave me is this:
> 
> The bridge that collapsed is only to affect Amtrak trains 50 and 51.
> 
> My train (#7) is supposedly not affected by this at all. Which is great news because I was beginning to hyperventilate
> 
> Figured I would just update this for those who would be interested.
Click to expand...

Unfortnately the representative is incorrect. She's correct that Amtrak is also having problems with trains 50 & 51 do to a bridge problem by Indianapolis. That's an old problem that has now been going on for well over a week.

This problem with the Empire Builder is brand new and I suspect that Amtrak is still talking with their host RR BNSF, on just what is going to happen. Stay tunned for news, but unfortunately you are not yet out of the woods. Sorry!


----------



## xtwarrior

AlanB said:


> xtwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xtwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, this is not good news. What kind of delays are expected? I am set to go through there on the Empire Builder the 22nd and I MUST be in Seattle for a cruise by 11AM on Saturday morning. My train was scheduled to come in around 10:25am Friday morning and my cruise ship leave Saturday morning.
> 
> Please let me know what to expect. Is there going to be that big of a delay to cause an issue? Will there be provisions to get around this? I've had tickets fro this trip for months, and this is my first time dealing with a trip like this let alone trains.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> Called Amtrak and spoke to a representative. The scoop she gave me is this:
> 
> The bridge that collapsed is only to affect Amtrak trains 50 and 51.
> 
> My train (#7) is supposedly not affected by this at all. Which is great news because I was beginning to hyperventilate
> 
> Figured I would just update this for those who would be interested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortnately the representative is incorrect. She's correct that Amtrak is also having problems with trains 50 & 51 do to a bridge problem by Indianapolis. That's an old problem that has now been going on for well over a week.
> 
> This problem with the Empire Builder is brand new and I suspect that Amtrak is still talking with their host RR BNSF, on just what is going to happen. Stay tunned for news, but unfortunately you are not yet out of the woods. Sorry!
Click to expand...

Do you know if they would provide a reasonable alternative? I did state it was about the Fridley issue this morning but maybe that got last when she put me on hold and asked about the issue. I have a 1 day buffer and I want to make sure I do not exceed that limit and prepare accordingly.

Thanks for your help and let me know if you find something out asap!


----------



## westwardbound2011

mwmnp said:


> The latest disaster to affect the Empire Builder's route happened this morning slightly north of Minneapolis, where flash flooding from unusually heavy rainfall caused a bridge to collapse and overturn 17 loaded cars and 2 locomotives of a corn train. Though there are two main tracks and two separate bridges in this area, no trains are being allowed through until the derailed cars and leaking fuel from the locomotives can be cleaned up. The bridge that is still standing is also being carefully inspected to make sure it doesn't meet the same fate as the one next to it.
> 
> Here is a link to a news article, complete with photos and a video:
> 
> http://minnesota.cbs...ils-in-fridley/
> 
> Note that, if necessary, the Empire Builder can successfully detour around this site by taking a line that reaches Fargo by way of Willmar. The stops at St. Cloud, Staples, and Detroit Lakes would be bypassed by doing this, however. The detour route also necessitates the use of two BNSF pilots and includes well over 100 miles of 40 mph track.



Is that true about the detour? if so, does that mean my trip west on the EB leaving the 26th should be okay?


----------



## xtwarrior

westwardbound2011 said:


> mwmnp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The latest disaster to affect the Empire Builder's route happened this morning slightly north of Minneapolis, where flash flooding from unusually heavy rainfall caused a bridge to collapse and overturn 17 loaded cars and 2 locomotives of a corn train. Though there are two main tracks and two separate bridges in this area, no trains are being allowed through until the derailed cars and leaking fuel from the locomotives can be cleaned up. The bridge that is still standing is also being carefully inspected to make sure it doesn't meet the same fate as the one next to it.
> 
> Here is a link to a news article, complete with photos and a video:
> 
> http://minnesota.cbs...ils-in-fridley/
> 
> Note that, if necessary, the Empire Builder can successfully detour around this site by taking a line that reaches Fargo by way of Willmar. The stops at St. Cloud, Staples, and Detroit Lakes would be bypassed by doing this, however. The detour route also necessitates the use of two BNSF pilots and includes well over 100 miles of 40 mph track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true about the detour? if so, does that mean my trip west on the EB leaving the 26th should be okay?
Click to expand...

I am wondering about this as well.

So, after Alan replied to my Q and subsequent answer, I called Amtrak again and spoke to a different rep. I made sure to stress to her that the incident from this morning was not the issue affecting trains 50 & 51, and that I wanted to know the status of train number 7 and she said it is still listed as running. However, Amtrak's website said it cannot give times/status for the #7 train so I'm just as confused as before


----------



## A.J.

you might want to look into alternative ways of getting to seattle, at least as a backup. that way as things progress you can have an alternative plan at the ready if needed. it's not nearly as much fun to fly but if the EB continues to be delayed a plane will at least get you there. what are your travel plans after the cruise? if you have any flexibility, maybe you could try to take the train then, eastbound.


----------



## anir dendroica

Shouldn't be an issue for EB service restart - from BNSF:



> 07/16/2011
> Update Report: Derailment in Minneapolis, Minnesota
> 
> As stated in the Service Advisory issued July 16, 2011, Grain train G-NUMINB9-15 derailed in Minneapolis, Minnesota near our Northtown rail yard.
> 
> Main track two is estimated to return to service Monday, July 18 at approximately 12:00 p.m. CT with Main one estimated to return to service at 0830 a.m. Tuesday, July 19th.


----------



## westwardbound2011

A.J. said:


> you might want to look into alternative ways of getting to seattle, at least as a backup. that way as things progress you can have an alternative plan at the ready if needed. it's not nearly as much fun to fly but if the EB continues to be delayed a plane will at least get you there. what are your travel plans after the cruise? if you have any flexibility, maybe you could try to take the train then, eastbound.


As for myself, I cannot fly....I have claustrophobic issues with being in a plane. I would have to try and find a spot and sleeper on the CZ or the other train that runs to Cali then back up to Portland if EB shuts down...it will really be a drain for the added costs if that happens.

crossing my fingers I am still able to make the family wedding I am going to, esp since I am IN the wedding!


----------



## mwmnp

westwardbound2011 said:


> mwmnp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note that, if necessary, the Empire Builder can successfully detour around this site by taking a line that reaches Fargo by way of Willmar. The stops at St. Cloud, Staples, and Detroit Lakes would be bypassed by doing this, however. The detour route also necessitates the use of two BNSF pilots and includes well over 100 miles of 40 mph track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true about the detour? if so, does that mean my trip west on the EB leaving the 26th should be okay?
Click to expand...

I just know that Amtrak _can_ detour the train (and has during previous derailments between Minneapolis-Fargo), but I don't know that Amtrak will do that. In any event, I wouldn't worry at all about this affecting travel on the 26th. One of the tracks will have long since reopened by that time.


----------



## CMH David

Because of the service disruption there should be no additional charge to change your ticket - it just becomes a matter of the room type being availalbe.

From what I see you will need to leave on Tuesday (from Chicago) to get into Seattle Friday night so you will be there in time for Saturdays activities if you take either the CZ or SWC.

We were scheduled on the EB but changed our reseervation at no charge because of the service interruptions we got a roomette but right now are scheduled in one for part of the trip and another for another part of the trip, which we would not have found if not for a very helpful res agent.

Seems like if anything can go wrong for Amtrak this year it is going wrong.

Good luck.


----------



## AlanB

xtwarrior said:


> westwardbound2011 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that true about the detour? if so, does that mean my trip west on the EB leaving the 26th should be okay?
> 
> 
> 
> I am wondering about this as well.
> 
> So, after Alan replied to my Q and subsequent answer, I called Amtrak again and spoke to a different rep. I made sure to stress to her that the incident from this morning was not the issue affecting trains 50 & 51, and that I wanted to know the status of train number 7 and she said it is still listed as running. However, Amtrak's website said it cannot give times/status for the #7 train so I'm just as confused as before
Click to expand...

Well if you checked the status for today, you got nothing because the westbound train hasn't run in a month due to the flooding in Minot. The very first westbound train will leave Chicago tomorrow. The very first eastbound left the westcoast today.

If you checked the status for the date you want to actually travel, then you'd get nothing since the train hasn't left the first station yet.

Now based upon the notice from BNSF that Anir posted, it sounds like BNSF will have things back in service by the time the first trains get there. So baring and further problems, you should be ok.


----------



## CMH David

Not sure on the dates you are talking about? Do you need to be in Seattle this coming Friday, July 22nd or the following week? If your looking at the following week everything should be fine by then. This week it should be okay but I suspest you would get in a few hours late but I am only guessing.


----------



## xtwarrior

Sorry for the confusion David, it is the 22nd I am set to be in by. I don't mind a few hours as long as I get there for the cruise ship. Thanks for the info and help guys


----------



## TraneMan

Looks like 8 and 28 is showing up on the status map! :excl:


----------



## brucie Bonus

It would be fun to read reports from the passengers on the Empire Builder travelling east and west now that the service has restarted. Which parts of the journey should I stay awake to view the scenery etc?

I have found that this discussion forum very useful and thanks to all who participated.


----------



## Donald M

Tried to check the status of the EB departing Seattle on the 17th on the Amtrak site and it will not show anything. Does anyone know whether it is actually running on to Chicago?


----------



## Ispolkom

Donald M said:


> Tried to check the status of the EB departing Seattle on the 17th on the Amtrak site and it will not show anything. Does anyone know whether it is actually running on to Chicago?


It's running, pretty much on time. You couldn't find it on the 17th because the first departure was yesterday, July 18.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Checking Amtrak.com for today,Mon 07/18, it shows Seats Coach Seats Only Available on #7/#27,High Bucket Rooms on the CZ#5/Coach Seats only on the CS#14 in SAC to PDX/SEA and High Bucket Rooms on the SWC#3/CS#14 to PDX/SEA! So if youre going today and have the $$$ or Points you CAN get there on a Train if the good lords willing and the creeks don't rise Again! :help: (guess the Layover in SAC wont be so long with the Zephyr running so Late! Be interesting to see if the Builder can have a better OTP than the Zephyr and the Eagles also??  )


----------



## Trogdor

Ispolkom said:


> Donald M said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to check the status of the EB departing Seattle on the 17th on the Amtrak site and it will not show anything. Does anyone know whether it is actually running on to Chicago?
> 
> 
> 
> It's running, pretty much on time. You couldn't find it on the 17th because the first departure was yesterday, July 18.
Click to expand...

Today is July 18.


----------



## Ispolkom

Trogdor said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald M said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to check the status of the EB departing Seattle on the 17th on the Amtrak site and it will not show anything. Does anyone know whether it is actually running on to Chicago?
> 
> 
> 
> It's running, pretty much on time. You couldn't find it on the 17th because the first departure was yesterday, July 18.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Today is July 18.
Click to expand...

Man, the government shuts down and I lose track of the days. Yesterday sure enough was the 17th.


----------



## EB_OBS

Just an FYI, the train is to run on the detour route between Minot & Fargo, ND. The stops at Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks will be bypassed.


----------



## Rail Freak

Ispolkom said:


> I'll gladly admit that the agents at Amtrak might know more than I do.


LOL :giggle: !!!


----------



## Altygrae

EB_OBS said:


> Just an FYI, the train is to run on the detour route between Minot & Fargo, ND. The stops at Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks will be bypassed.


But they're selling tickets to Devils Lake. Admittedly I was checking tomorrow's departure because of timing but there was no service notice flag.


----------



## anir dendroica

EB_OBS said:


> Just an FYI, the train is to run on the detour route between Minot & Fargo, ND. The stops at Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks will be bypassed.


So they decide to wait until the Devils Lake line reopens, then they decide not to use it? More wave-action trouble on the lake crossing?

Mark


----------



## EB_OBS

anir dendroica said:


> EB_OBS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just an FYI, the train is to run on the detour route between Minot & Fargo, ND. The stops at Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks will be bypassed.
> 
> 
> 
> So they decide to wait until the Devils Lake line reopens, then they decide not to use it? More wave-action trouble on the lake crossing?
> 
> Mark
Click to expand...

Well, another example of one end of Amtrak not knowing what the other end is doing. Turns out, as I had earlier believed, the Devils Lake sub is indeed open and there is no detour.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Sure looks Nice to see #7 and #8 on the High Line and Running On Time!  Hopefully they will be joined by todays #8 and #28 and that the rest of the Western trains can get out of the Red ASAP! Amtrak could use some Good Karma, it's been a tough year all over!


----------



## Donald M

Anyone know if the westbound EB got away from Chicago today?


----------



## anir dendroica

It's on the map as departing Milwaukee on time:

http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/scripts/getmap.pl?mapname=West

The BNSF tracks are still closed north of Minneapolis due to a derailment last Saturday that destroyed a bridge. BNSF expects one track to reopen this evening, which should be just in time for #7. I wouldn't be surprised to see several hours of delays due to lingering freight congestion, although if #7 is one of the first trains through it should have smooth sailing on the other side.

Mark


----------



## TraneMan

Donald M said:


> Anyone know if the westbound EB got away from Chicago today?


Yes, it is running today.


----------



## Tom

I am hearing reports in my official capacity that the 5-day forecast includes rains and increased flooding again. Any new updates from up that way?


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## anir dendroica

Precip outlooks here:

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/day1-5.shtml

Looks OK for Minot and the Souris basin. Might be bad for Devils Lake - about two inches predicted there. Minnesota doesn't need more rain, but I don't think three inches there will disrupt BNSF/Amtrak.

Looking at recent EB status, it actually isn't losing that much time on the slow orders between Devils Lake and Rugby. Consistently losing an hour between Williston and Malta (slow orders due to Missouri River and recent track raise?) and between Grand Forks and Fargo (still slow orders left from spring flooding?). Most trains are on time until ND/eastern MT and +/- 3 hours late when they leave that region.

Mark


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## anir dendroica

Video on BNSF flooding and response posted here (7-20-11):

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/weather-interruptions/


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## CHamilton

Some photos from yesterday's train #7 showing the flooding in North Dakota.


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## michael Moffitt

What happened to train #8 for 8-24--Amtrak just said an interruption of service? Was this because 7 got into SEA sooooo late that they just couldn't make the turnaround? That's a lot of people to try to accommodate.

:-(


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## PRR 60

michael Moffitt said:


> What happened to train #8 for 8-24--Amtrak just said an interruption of service? Was this because 7 got into SEA sooooo late that they just couldn't make the turnaround? That's a lot of people to try to accommodate.
> 
> :-(


It appears the westbound EB due to arrive today (7/24) was terminated at Spokane since it was running over four hours late. When that happens, the passengers from Seattle and Portland due to leave on this afternoon's Builder are bused to Spokane, and the train status shows a disruption.


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