# Paris to Muhouse by TGV Lyria



## jis (Oct 29, 2011)

Last weekend I took a trip on Sunday from Paris Gare de l'Est to Mulhouse, via Strasbourg on a TGV Lyria Paris - Zurich train. This is a short report on that trip.

First some background for those not familiar with the route. Paris to Strasbourg is part of an old classic route which carried famous trains like the Orient Express. Recently a new LGV (Ligne Grande Vitesse - High Speed Line) has been built from just outside of Paris to a place called Baudrecourt near Metz. This was the first 200mph (320kph)commercial speed line in France and the speed record of 359mph (574kph), for steel wheel on steel rail, was also set on this line just before its inauguration. The rest of the way from Baudrecourt to Strasbourg is currently covered on the old classic line upgraded for upto 125mph (200kph) wherever possible, but mostly 100mph (160kph) or less. A new LGV from Baudrecourt to Vandenheim, just outside Strasbourg is currently under construction, scheduled to go into service in 2014. Currently Paris to Strasbourg non-stop time is 2hrs and 20 mins. Upon completion of the new LGV that will get cut down to 1hr and 50 mins. The distance is around 250 miles (400km). The current LGV cover about 185 miles (295km) of that.

Beyond Strasbourg, the route to Zurich is along the upgraded Rhine Valley line through Colmar, Mulhouse and Basel, with speeds upto 140mph - sort of Acela-like speeds only. Eventually an LGV will be built there too, but not for a while. The next LGV that is going into service is the LGV Rhine-Rhone which connects Mulhouse to Dijon via Besancon.

Anyway now for the trip..... I had gotten myself a First Class reservation for a window seat on the single side (First Class is 2 - 1 seating), so I just had to pick up the ticket from a ticket machine at Gare de l'Est that morning - morning of the 23rd of October. I got to the station about 30 mins before departure by a Metro 4 from Montparnasse where my hotel was. Found a ticket machine and coaxed it into English mode, and then obtained my ticket. The ticket machines can be coaxed into one of several languages main ones being French (default), English and German. There were several TGV consists parked at several platforms, some two unit trains a few single unit trains and a few Dupleix (double-deckers) too. I looked for one with Lyria branding, but there weren't any. Apparently all the Lyria branded trains are in the Sud-Est depot in Bercy outside Gare de Lyon, and apparently there are very few POS (Paris-Ostfrankreich-Süddeutschland or Paris-Eastern France-Southern Germany) sets in that branding yet assigned to Est depot in Pantin just outside Gare de l'Est.

Anyway, about 15 mins before departure track was posted on the departure board and a whole crowd, which was only a small part of the overall crowd milling around various departure boards, started moving towards the platform - no gates, no checks, no barriers or hindrances. The posting on the board said it is the second train on the platform. Turns out that we were on a two unit train, the first unit was deadheading to Zurich for the Monday morning rush hour train which will be the full two units in service. For this Sunday service the second unit farther from the gate was open. Previously I had checked the train consist chart so I knew exactly where my assigned car would be and hence leisurely walked over and got my seat. The real rush to board started at 5 mins before departure which is when apparently most seasoned travelers in France arrive at the station. By the time we were ready to leave the train was entirely full. The consist was 2 POS sets coupled together, one closed and one open. Each set had (from rear to front) Powerhead, 4x Second Class, 1x Cafe/Bar, 3x First Class, Power Head. I was in the First Class adjacent to the Cafe/Bar the third car of the train behind the Power Head.

At the appointed departure time, the traditional Paris Metro style buzzer sounded and the doors closed and we were off smoothly, slowly at first as we passed through the throat of Gare de l'Est then upto about 60mph (100kph) as we passed Pantin and the East European Technical Center with lines of dozens of TGVs parked there, and a couple of ICEs too, which run a Paris - Frankfurt service. Soon we were upto 100 mph (160kph) and then 125 mph (200kph), and then we branched off onto the LGV at Vaire-sur-Marne, and the speed rapidly increased through 140mph (225kph) - 155mph (250kph) - 180mph (290kph) and then close to 200mph 9320kph). And we pretty much stayed between 180mph (290kph) and 200mph (320kph) all the way to Baudrecourt.

There are three stations on the way to Baudrecourt, but we were a Paris Strasbourg non-stop, so we zipped though all of them at full speed. We got the Buadrecourt in a little over an hour - 180 miles (290km) in an hour is not bad in my books, and branched off from the LGV to the Metz - Strasbourg classic line and immediately got stuck behind a slower train. See, it happens in France too  But at the first opportunity we were allowed to overtake a Regional train. Turns out we got stuck behind it because we were running a tad bit ahead of schedule at that point.

I recorded part of the trip on GPS. Here are some pictures:

A small map and summary of speed performance.

More detailed summary.

And a 1 minute video of running along at ~200mph (~320kph). The windows could be a little cleaner, though the dirt is more visible because I was on the Sun side of the train.

Anyway, once the overtaking was done we settled down to a modest 80 to 125mph with many many slower spots due to sharp curves. The super-elevation on the curves in Europe though are impressive compared to what we have in the US. And finally we crawled into Strasbourg, still a few minutes ahead of schedule.

Almost half the train emptied out at Strasbourg, and about a quarter refilled, and we were off in under 5 mins. Now on the very nicely upgraded Classic line we clipped along at 125mph (200kph) - 140mph (225kph), and soon arrived at Colmar where there was again a large exodus. Another 20 minutes and we were in Mulhouse and time for me to say goodbye to this wonderful ride.

One thing that I have to comment on is the smoothness of the ride even at top speed. I have no idea why we cannot get such smoothness in the US. You can barely feel the train moving if you just close your eyes. OTOH, there are two things that you do feel, smooth transitions in and out of curves - horizontal and vertical. Grades of 5% is not that uncommon apparently and you do feel it when you go into one or out of one, sort of a bit like in an airplane. But the random jerking and vibrations that we experience so often even on the Acela seem to be totally absent.

While the seats on TGV are not necessarily as good as the ones on the Acela, I must say that the slight difference there has never bothered me. Oh and First Class does not include food service either. But still it runs pretty full. In general, the fares appear to be lower by about a third than the Acela fares for corresponding distances. Either way, the overall technology is just way impressive.

BTW, LGV Est is equipped with two separate but interconnected PTC systems. It has the French TVM-430, and the European standard ERTMS, both operational. TGVs generally use the TVM-430 while the ICEs uses ERTMS, though the TGV-POS sets are capable of using either system, since they do operate into Germany and Switzerland where they deal with ERTMS and even other more classical systems. The system is built for 350kph (220mph), but at present operates at 320kph (200mph).

For all HSR enthusiasts, if you get a chance ride the TGV before forming any opinions about what true HSR should be like. And think about what aspects of it can easily be adopted in the US instead of vague theories about population density and what not. Just note that the area between Nancy/Metz and Strasbourg is pretty sparsely populated, and is more like going across western PA than along the NEC.


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## como (Oct 29, 2011)

jis said:


> Last weekend I took a trip on Sunday from Paris Gare de l'Est to Mulhouse, via Strasbourg on a TGV Lyria Paris - Zurich train. This is a short report on that trip.
> 
> First some background for those not familiar with the route. Paris to Strasbourg is part of an old classic route which carried famous trains like the Orient Express. Recently a new LGV (Ligne Grande Vitesse - high Speed Line) has been built from just outside of Paris to a place called Baudrecourt near Metz. This was the first 200mph commercial speed line in France and the speed record of 357mph, for steel wheel on steel rail, was also set on this line just before its inauguration. The rest of the way from Baudrecourt to Strasbourg is currently covered on the old classic line upgraded for upto 125mph wherever possible. A new LGV from Baudrecourt to Vandenheim, just outside Strasbourg is currently under construction, scheduled to go into service in 2014. Currently Paris to Strasbourg non-stop time is 2hrs and 20 mins. Upon completion of the new LGV that will get cut down to 1hr and 50 mins. The distance is around 250 miles. The current LGV cover about 185 miles of that.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting report. I had the chance to ride the Shikansen service between Tokyo and Nagoya last year and it sound somewhat like the TGV. I appreciated your comment about the differences in visions about high speed rail.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 29, 2011)

Enjoyed it jis. Thanks


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## train person (Oct 30, 2011)

I hope during your time in Mulhouse you visited the 'Cite du Train' museum... Quite a fine French railroading history establishment!


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## PerRock (Oct 30, 2011)

nice read. reminds me of my trip to Interlaken on the TGV (Lyra I believe). We started out as two trains coupled together, I was actually late finding the platform as the station I was at had all the TGV trains in an separate building joining the main station. The staff let me board the 1st set (and sit in 1st class, even though I was a 2nd class ticket holder) while I waited for the 1st stop where I had to run forward to the other part of the train and get my actual seat there.

Pics: https://picasaweb.google.com/PFreeman008/ParisToInterlaken?authuser=0&feat=directlink

peter


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## jis (Oct 30, 2011)

train person said:


> I hope during your time in Mulhouse you visited the 'Cite du Train' museum... Quite a fine French railroading history establishment!


That was my primary mission, and indeed I spent most of the afternoon there. It is one of the best setup and maintained collection I have seen in a while. Quite delightful. And then I rode the entire Tram and Tram-Train system before catching a Mulhouse originating TGV back to Paris. This train started as a single unit at Mulhouse and was joined by a Strasbourg originating second unit at Strasbourg and ran as a two unit train nonstop from Strasbourg to Paris, arriving into Paris on time after sitting between Pantin and Gare de l'Est for 10 mins having arrived there too early.


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## jis (Oct 30, 2011)

PerRock said:


> nice read. reminds me of my trip to Interlaken on the TGV (Lyra I believe). We started out as two trains coupled together, I was actually late finding the platform as the station I was at had all the TGV trains in an separate building joining the main station. The staff let me board the 1st set (and sit in 1st class, even though I was a 2nd class ticket holder) while I waited for the 1st stop where I had to run forward to the other part of the train and get my actual seat there.
> 
> Pics: https://picasaweb.google.com/PFreeman008/ParisToInterlaken?authuser=0&feat=directlink
> 
> peter


Depends on what year you did this trip. Before LGV Est went into service in late 2007, the Interlaken service used to depart from Gare de Lyon and run via Bellegarde Lausanne on the classic Cisalpin route. The Geneva and Lausanne/Brig service still runs out of Gare de Lyon.

Oddly enough starting early next year, (at least some of) the Zurich service will probably move to Gare de Lyon and run via Dijon Mulhouse on the new LGV Rhine-Rhone which goes into service on the 11th December, since the total running time Paris - Mulhouse will be shorter via that routing than via Strasbourg!


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## train person (Oct 30, 2011)

jis said:


> train person said:
> 
> 
> > I hope during your time in Mulhouse you visited the 'Cite du Train' museum... Quite a fine French railroading history establishment!
> ...


Good man! I finally got there earlier this year, spent several hours wandering about there. It has had a major rework in recent years, plus the opening of the tram network has made it a lot easier to get there, before that it was a bit of a slog.


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## PerRock (Oct 30, 2011)

It was 2009. The TGV actually went to Lausanne I believe where I then transferred to an ICE train for the final stretch.

peter


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## jis (Oct 30, 2011)

train person said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > train person said:
> ...


Yup. It is a short walk from the Musees station on Tram-Train line 3 which goes in tram mode to Lutterbach, and then becomes a train to go on to Thann. Fascinating in and of itself.

It was a delight to see the electric engines that ran at close to 300kph many many years before TGVs came by!


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## Train person (Oct 31, 2011)

A rather tasty video of one of the speed record runs in 1955....

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcHWjelxe_MU&ei=JJCuTofTOZPb8QPggbWlCw&usg=AFQjCNHN-7VyQscVv4CAXF1zLYk4e5T3nw


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## jis (Oct 31, 2011)

Train person said:


> A rather tasty video of one of the speed record runs in 1955....
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCEQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcHWjelxe_MU&ei=JJCuTofTOZPb8QPggbWlCw&usg=AFQjCNHN-7VyQscVv4CAXF1zLYk4e5T3nw


Yeah, that's neat! Amazing how early they had broken 200kph (125mph), which was the nominal operating speed of the first Japanese Shinkansen in the 60s. And 50 years later we are still struggling to get past that. Sigh....


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## jis (Nov 17, 2011)

Just uploaded my collection of pictures from the French National Railway Museum in Mulhouse, which was the primary reason for the ride on the TGV/Lyria to get there. You can see the photos at:


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