# Zone policy change



## darien-l (Jul 7, 2010)

Hello all,

I've been reviewing some threads on here, particularly those pertaining to zones and "loopholes", and found references to policy changes and the closing of loopholes. Just to clarify that I'm understanding this correctly:

Not too long ago, only the origin and destination zone mattered for calculating the number of points. For example, if one traveled from one city in zone A to another city in zone A, but crossed into zone B enroute, it would be considered a one-zone award. Now, it would be considered a two-zone award. Is this correct?

To use a more practical example:

I want to book an award from Bigmingham, AL (BHM) to CHI. Both are in Central zone, but the only routings amtrak.com presents me with involve crossing into the Eastern zone for a transfer to either Capitol Limited or the Cardinal. This used to be a one-zone award but is now a two-zone award, right?


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## rrdude (Jul 7, 2010)

darien-l said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've been reviewing some threads on here, particularly those pertaining to zones and "loopholes", and found references to policy changes and the closing of loopholes. Just to clarify that I'm understanding this correctly:
> 
> ...


I'd call and find out on that one. "Technically" yes, but it's worth a call.

BTW, why can't you get it booked on the Crescent to NOL, then due north on the City of NOL? Oh wait, the "layover". Drat. That would be two AGR awards......


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## darien-l (Jul 7, 2010)

rrdude said:


> I'd call and find out on that one. "Technically" yes, but it's worth a call.
> 
> BTW, why can't you get it booked on the Crescent to NOL, then due north on the City of NOL?


My understanding is that (with a few exceptions) only the routings presented on amtrak.com are valid for awards. In particular, overnights are allowed only if there is no other option. I doubt that AGR is going to let me overnight in NOL if there are other routings available that do not involve an overnight.


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## rrdude (Jul 7, 2010)

darien-l said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > I'd call and find out on that one. "Technically" yes, but it's worth a call.
> ...


No they won't let you overnight, you'd have to burn two AGR awards, and the Cardinal / Cap is gonna cost you two zones, unless you luck out and get an AGR agent who either isn't paying attention, or something....


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## Bigval109 (Jul 7, 2010)

So does that mean atl to sea is no longer a 2 zone reward? :unsure:


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## yarrow (Jul 8, 2010)

Bigval109 said:


> So does that mean atl to sea is no longer a 2 zone reward? :unsure:


we booked that trip a few weeks ago as a 2-zone award but instead of routing us through a third zone it was booked- atl-nol-overnight in nol then nol-chi and chi-sea


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## Bigval109 (Jul 8, 2010)

yarrow said:


> Bigval109 said:
> 
> 
> > So does that mean atl to sea is no longer a 2 zone reward? :unsure:
> ...


how is that possible? I thought there was no direct connection between atl and chi. Who pays for your overnite on nol?


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2010)

Bigval109 said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > Bigval109 said:
> ...


It's on your nickel, this seems to be the last of the loopholes left if the agent didnt make a mistake??Others have made reservations for X amount of points, been called later telling them the agent made a mistake and the correct amount is XY points! Doesnt sound fair but it's in the rules, it's their points as someone said in a previous thread about AGR!


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## Bigval109 (Jul 9, 2010)

This whole thing of crossing zones to get to your destination seems *grossly unfair*. :angry: Amtrak's computer routes you a certain way and we have to pay for the routing that it gives us. :mellow: Just because the routing they give you strays into another zone to get you where you are going is not our fault. I find it *grossly unfair* to charge an extra 15,000 points penatiy when you didn't do anything wrong. With many of the old routes gone we have little choice but to use what is available. This zone policy change stinks like last weeks diaper. :wacko: Exceptions need to be made to this policy when there is no other way to get to your destination. Points are not easy to come by for some of us and with the cap on buy points you can't even buy the difference you may need as the result of the policy change. The whole change thing sucks. :excl:


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## the_traveler (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree!.




Why should *WE* be penalized when going from ATL, BHM or SDL - either by extra points or an overnight in NOL on our dime, when the only route given takes us to another zone?



Even on a airline reward from PDX-PVD, I was given a choice of going PDX directly to ORD then to PVD or PDX to SFO to ORD to PVD. Both were the same number of points!


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## Ispolkom (Jul 9, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> Even on a airline reward from PDX-PVD, I was given a choice of going PDX directly to ORD then to PVD or PDX to SFO to ORD to PVD. Both were the same number of points!


But the airline probably doesn't encounter lots of passengers that want to take circuitous routings, and in any case you were in coach, right? On Amtrak you would have been occupying a more expensive and rarer sleeper accommodation. Also, consider that Amtrak still offers alternate routings, as long as they don't cross zone boundaries. To quote one AGR expert:



> Your going MKE-SEA, it may show
> •MKE-SEA (on the EB)
> 
> •MKE-PDX-SEA (on the EB and Cascades - and remember it will be BC on the Cascades)
> ...


I don't think "fair" is a very useful term. Was it fair that CHI-WAS is 2 zones, but CHI-WAS-ATL was one zone? Is it fair that MOT-ESM (a day trip) is two zones, but MOT-CHI-NOL (2 nights) is one zone? Is it fair that Wolf Point, Montana is the most strategically located city in the AGR network? (Okay, maybe that is fair, since Wolf Point doesn't have that much else going for it.)

Is it fair that the rules aren't actually published, and that changes are never publicized? Think of all those AGR members who don't read this forum, and didn't know the finer points of award booking because they aren't officially published anywhere.

And let's be honest. It isn't as though a large portion of this forum's members live in Slidell, Birmingham, or Columbus, Wisconsin. Last fall I drove from Savannah to Atlanta purely because the cost of travel from Atlanta to Minot was 20k points, while from Savannah it was 30k. Those of us who booked "loophole" trips were taking advantage of the ramshackle nature of both the Amtrak network and the AGR rules for long-distance train redemptions. Can we really blame AGR for tightening those rules?

I'm not going to complain about AGR, since given their reasonable rates and lack of capacity controls and, for that matter, willingness to allow indirect routings, they are still the best frequent-traveler system I belong to.

Of course I have booked more than my fair share of loophole trips, so perhaps this is one of those cases where where you stand on the issue depends on where you sit on the train. (Bedroom E, in my case.)


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## Rail Freak (Jul 9, 2010)

As many of you know I'm fairly new to train travel. But, I caught on fairly quickly to the AGR Program & have taken some nice long AGR Trips. At times, I find myself thinking " Wait a minute, that's not right or that's not fair". Then I think "What if Amtrak decided they were causing too much chaos with AGR & did away with it entirely!!!" I believe I'll just keep quiet & count my points.

RF


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2010)

A reminder to us all to not put off until tomorrow what we can do today! I too was one of the lucky ones that got to do several "loophole" AGR trips in the past 2 years, they are all,sadly, now gone! Of course today is all there is, noone is promised tomorrow so if you have the points, take the trips while you can! As JFK said: "Life is unfair, but it beats the alternative!"


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## alanh (Jul 9, 2010)

The other big issue AGR had to deal with is what the airlines call hidden city ticketing. If you were travelling to/from WAS, you could turn a 2 or 3 zone trip into a 1 or 2 zone by tacking on an ATL leg and throwing that ticket away. Airlines will cancel the remainder of your trip, but Amtrak doesn't have online ticket access.


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## Bigval109 (Jul 12, 2010)

alanh said:


> The other big issue AGR had to deal with is what the airlines call hidden city ticketing. If you were travelling to/from WAS, you could turn a 2 or 3 zone trip into a 1 or 2 zone by tacking on an ATL leg and throwing that ticket away. Airlines will cancel the remainder of your trip, but Amtrak doesn't have online ticket access.


I talked with the sleeper attendant and he told me that the hidden ticket had become a big problem. On paper he would have a sold out sleeper car but in reality there may have only been 3 or 4 sleeper occupied. He also told me there had been a meeting regarding this problem. As for me , I enjoyed riding down to atl and taking the viewliner back at the beginning of my vacation. Now I have to buy a ticket to cin to begin my reward trip. The only problem with that is it is 1 am  before they let you in the sleeper and I'm already worn out by then and only want to sleep. -_- But never the less I still enjoy my reward trips after I wake up on the way to chi and points beyond.


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