# Point Runs



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 6, 2014)

Hi All,

I'm planning on shooting for Select status this year, and I expect to do a few point runs (most likely on the Shuttle service between NHV and SPG). Does anyone have any tips for point runs- stuff like layovers, delays, etc? Just wondering since I've never done a points run before.

Thanks!


----------



## amamba (Jan 6, 2014)

While in NHV, visit Pepe's pizza!!!! YUM.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 6, 2014)

On a point run, unless you have a specific reason to go somewhere (like a destination or to make a connection), an inexpensive trip under $50 ow gives the same amount of AGR points as a longer and more expensive trip under $50! Example - SPG to Windsor gives 100 AGR points as does SPG-NHV, yet one costs less!


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 6, 2014)

What about breaking up a trip? Such as:

WAB-HFD on the Vermonter

HFD-NHV on a Regional/Shuttle

NHV-NYP on a later regional

Would this earn 100 or 300 points? I can book it as the same price as going direct WAB-NYP


----------



## BCL (Jan 6, 2014)

I was less than 600 points shy of making Select on the last weekend. I've got my own little trips that I can take, and sometimes I take my kid along. Sometimes I turn my commute ride into a multi-city trip and that doubles the points for the same price. Of course that requires something to occupy the time. Mine is the Depot Cafe at FMT. Last weekend I got 400 points with the RIC-EMY-SFC-EMY-RIC round trip that takes less than 2-1/2 hours. There's supposedly a 30 minute stopover, but with typical weekend traffic it's more like 50 minutes to spend at the Ferry Building.

RIC-EMY-SFC is $12 one-way, with a combination train and bus. BKY-EMY-SFC is $10.50, but that train portion is so short that the ticket might not be lifted. The bus portions are easy because the driver scans every passenger individually while boarding. There's also currently a 50% off discount for weekends with a 3-day advance purchase. Of course when I take the kid, there's no additional discount. By myself it compares favorably to taking BART, which is about $8 round trip. But with the kid it doubles.

The special on weekends would look like this:



> Saturday, January 11, 2014
> Richmond to Emeryville
> 
> 7:05 am - 7:18 am
> ...


----------



## Ryan (Jan 6, 2014)

Done on 3 separate reservations, that's 300 points.

Keep in mind that you're only allowed to earn one 4 trains per day, so you couldn't do a round trip and get 600 in a day.

First 4 to post get the points if you do more, which can be problematic if one leg is expensive and posts last.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 6, 2014)

The important thing is, no matter how many reservations you have, the trains must have a different train number.

Not specifically in your case, but you could take the EB from CHI to Staples. If you take train 807 from CHI to CBS, train 7 from CBS to MSP and train 27 from MSP to Staples, you traveled on 3 separate trains. You would receive points for each train, the greater of 100 points or 2/$!


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 6, 2014)

One of the better round-trips I've found is the Empire Service:

Saturday schedule- New York to Croton-Harmon for $15.30 each way (w/ Student Advantage)

#233 NYP-YNY

#283 YNY-CRT

#284 CRT-YNY

#292 YNY-NYP

That would be easier (and cheaper) than having to go from NYP to NHV to do Shuttle runs


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 6, 2014)

Also breaking up my trips to/from home and college:

#55 Vermonter WAB-HFD

#465 Shuttle HFD-NHV

#165 Regional NHV-NYP

Though I'd be a little nervous making the connection from the Vermonter given the recent delays


----------



## SubwayNut (Jan 7, 2014)

FreeskierInVT said:


> Also breaking up my trips to/from home and college:
> 
> #55 Vermonter WAB-HFD
> 
> ...


I am a huge user of points runs by breaking up trips I'm already making using the less than 24 hour stopover rule and this step is the main thing I do to earn extra Amtrak points. I just re-qualified for Select+ this year although my travel was down much less. It's also the main way my website SubwayNut.com has so many Amtrak Stations on it!

I would add NYP-NWK (find the conductor when on-board)-MET (perhaps 100 points for $6 more) to your proposed ride and if it was me take the trip the next day. I've been adding NYP-NWK for an extra 100 points for less than an hour time and $2 extra (PATH fare) to many of my trips this year to cheep churning out those TQP points and keep my ClubAcela access. This now feels almost routine on my trips that are usually to upstate New York. I've also taken day trips to Philly (free on tickets from the Adirondack, about $10 more on Empire Service tickets) for an excuse to get more SEPTA for my website along with extra points (supplemented by a 300 point DOW-PHL points run on a separate ticket for $6.50) and do NWK-NYP or NYP-YNY (Yonkers, another trip of mine I live in Northern Manhattan and its an easy Subway to Bee-Line ride just for a MetroCard Swipe or free if an Unlimited is in my wallet) 'holding' segments before/after to avoid the mini-trip a day before/after my main trip, especially if I'm coming home to do something and then have a free day the next day! On those day trips to Philly I generally just plop $5 or $10 down for MegaBus or BoltBus, I find the ride short enough (and faster and cheeper than NJT to SEPTA) that I don't mind it so much.

New York City unfortunately doesn't have the same cheep tickets for points runs like other places have such as Philly with $6.50 PHL to DOW tickets that can be broken down into 4 total segments for 400 points in theory during PM rush hours with just hour layovers in EXT, PAO, and ARD (going towards Philadelphia by taking SEPTA out during the PM rush hour) or New Haven with the $4.50 WAL-NHV Shuttle runs. Northern California with the super cheep fares (compared to the Northeast) and connecting bus segments. If I lived in those places re-qualification would be easy! The Midwest from Chicago also has some under $10 runs (I did the Illinois Zephyr inbound from La Grange Road on my last trip for $6.50, one of these trips I'll get CHI-SMT for $3 and ride a CTA bus out of it).


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 7, 2014)

MegaBus to Philly to do point runs on the Keystone is a great idea. I had brushed that aside because of the ridiculous fares Amtrak has for NYP-PHL (which I paid to get to PHL on time for the Autumn Express in November)

Breaking up travel segments will likely be my primary means for extra points, since the fare on the LIRR from Stony Brook or Ronkonkoma to get to NYP in $12.75 each way. But a $3 or $5 Megabus fare seems reasonable.

I probably wouldn't continue onwards to NWK or MET if I have a lot of luggage heading back to college (I go to Stony Brook on Long Island), but I'll certainly keep it in mind! Thanks for the ideas!


----------



## BCL (Jan 7, 2014)

SubwayNut said:


> Northern California with the super cheep fares (compared to the Northeast) and connecting bus segments. If I lived in those places re-qualification would be easy! The Midwest from Chicago also has some under $10 runs (I did the Illinois Zephyr inbound from La Grange Road on my last trip for $6.50, one of these trips I'll get CHI-SMT for $3 and ride a CTA bus out of it).


There are some fairly cheap runs around here, but some of the runs are a bit boring. That RIC-EMY-SFC-EMY-RIC one is nice that on a weekend it can be done (if nothing breaks down) in a scheduled 2 hours and 12 minutes, with a stopover in a nice place and a half off special.

Another possibility around here is to use Megabus. The San Francisco to Sacramento route is right at two Amtrak stops. Megabus must have moved from Old Sac to the SAC train station. In San Francisco they stop across from the Caltrain station at a curb reserved for bus coaches. The normal Amtrak fare is $32, but I mentioned the half price special. Megabus varies, but the one time I took it I paid $5.50 including the reservation fee. I actually paid $4 to take AC Transit to get to SF from Emeryville where I parked, and took Capitol Corridor back to Emeryville.

I rather like Berkeley as a stop. It's near the 4th Street shopping district and now the Sierra Nevada Torpedo Room is a half block from the BRK station. However, to maximize segments it would make sense to connect to San Francisco, which means going through Emeryville. It's less than 2 miles and it might not even be enough time for the conductor to find you.


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm curious about what happens if there's a significant delay and you miss a train.

For example: (I'm referencing one of the examples above)

Say I'm on the southbound Vermonter on a Sunday to Hartford (HFD), scheduled to arrive at 3:26p. I have a ticket for Shuttle 465 scheduled to depart HFD at 4:47p, connecting to Regional 165 in New Haven (NHV) at 5:39p. What would happen if the Vermonter was super late (which has been happening quite often recently) and I missed 465? Would I be allowed to stay on the Vermonter through to NHV or NYP (my final destination), or would I be out of luck, having to pay the high bucket for a later train?


----------



## SubwayNut (Jan 8, 2014)

With all my connections (a few in PHL have been tight, like 10 minutes) I've never actually miss-connected a segment. One time I booked a YNY-NWK connection for 200 points run and my Empire Service train just missed my connecting train in this case the Station staff at Penn Station rebooked me on the next train that I decided not to take and managed to get the $12.13 cost of my NYP-NWK segment (the last of the trip) back since I was on a tight schedule at that point and didn't feel like the points run (full report on my blog) If you realize your going to miss the layover connection, mention something to the conductor and also consider calling Amtrak and speaking to an agent. I bet they will work something out (its not your fault) if your going to miss-connect.

If worse comes to worse, remember that Metro-North runs hourly or better from New Haven to New York and the HFD to NHV fare is only $12 (and you will at least be entitled to a refund for the segments after the stopover you didn't connect to).

The closest was when I was taking a joyride (tickets were too expensive to call it a proper points run) on the Downeaster that was running about a half-hour late. I realized I was going to miss an MBTA Commuter Rail Train I was planning to get off in Haverhill (the next commuter train wasn't until 2+ hours later) and catch and wanted to extend my trip to Boston. I told the conductor this and called up the priority number and managed to change my ticket (still low-bucket) paying the difference in fare and losing my NARP discount.


----------



## benale (Jan 8, 2014)

One of the cheapest point runs I do frequently during double days is Elizabethtown Pa to Harrisburg or Lancaster on the Keystones. $11.05 round trip senior fare. 400 points. This past fall and in the spring I did this route once a week and racked up many points. As far as Megabus, I would take that to Philly from Harrisburg and back for $2 and then do Amtrak from Philly to Paoli for $11.05 round trip. Megabus revised their schedule by leaving at 12:30 instead of 10:30. so there is not enough time for an Amtrak run. Elizabethtown has free parking,as well, unlike Harrisburg or Lancaster.

During the Double days promotion this past fall I racked up over 4,000 points just by doing these short,inexpensive runs


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 8, 2014)

That makes me feel a bit better about changing my reservation for later in the month to the 57-465-165 scenario. Right now I'm booked straight to NYP on 57 and I'd rather get 200 extra points!

I'm also planning a few runs on the Vermonter before I head back to school (not necessary for points), taking advantage of the $12 fare for traveling within Vermont. It's 2.5 hours from WAB to BRA, for the less than WAB-RPH or WRJ! Too bad it's a daily train otherwise I'd turn it into points runs.


----------



## BCL (Jan 8, 2014)

SubwayNut said:


> With all my connections (a few in PHL have been tight, like 10 minutes) I've never actually miss-connected a segment. One time I booked a YNY-NWK connection for 200 points run and my Empire Service train just missed my connecting train in this case the Station staff at Penn Station rebooked me on the next train that I decided not to take and managed to get the $12.13 cost of my NYP-NWK segment (the last of the trip) back since I was on a tight schedule at that point and didn't feel like the points run (full report on my blog) If you realize your going to miss the layover connection, mention something to the conductor and also consider calling Amtrak and speaking to an agent. I bet they will work something out (its not your fault) if your going to miss-connect.


At least with the Capitol Corridor trips, we're dealing with unreserved routes where there is immediate flexibility to take an earlier or later train/bus. My last 200 points to make Select came when I took BART into San Francisco. My intent was to take the 6626 bus (SFC-EMY) and then the 526 train (EMY-RIC). I was talking to the station agent before heading out, and outside I got a call (I think he guessed my name and he had my phone in the reservation info) telling me that the bus broke down. Later I got back in and he was on the phone with the bus operator and they couldn't get another bus there for a half hour. It wouldn't have made sense since the associated train would have already left. So we just waited for the next bus.

I also have a little bit of flexibility in that unreserved Capitol Corridor tickets between Oakland-Jack London and Martinez are valid on the otherwise reserved San Joaquin line. It's also supposed to work on the associated buses, but I'm not sure if the drivers are used to dealing with it. I'd heard about it but never tried it out. My eTicket scanned just fine on the train and it posted to AGR in 3 days.

It really helps that the bus segments count for the minimum 100 points, and the additional fare is only about $1-2.


----------



## SubwayNut (Jan 8, 2014)

If I lived in Northern California (or just Philly) earning S+ would be easy and much less of a game!

Ya I know I'm going to be basically passing through California in a week (Leaving Trukee Friday night on the last AmBus, taking the Sunset Limited to Tucson), I really wish I had three days to do stuff (and get three days, not just two quafecta 400 point days!) partially to start the 2014 AGR points quest. If only the Sunset ran daily...


----------



## BCL (Jan 8, 2014)

SubwayNut said:


> If I lived in Northern California (or just Philly) earning S+ would be easy and much less of a game!
> 
> Ya I know I'm going to be basically passing through California in a week (Leaving Trukee Friday night on the last AmBus, taking the Sunset Limited to Tucson), I really wish I had three days to do stuff (and get three days, not just two quafecta 400 point days!) partially to start the 2014 AGR points quest. If only the Sunset ran daily...


I was looking it up, and it would be possible to get to 10,000 points through 25 RIC-SFC-RIC round trips. $12 for each 400 points with the current weekend promotional fare. There's enough Saturdays and Sundays to do this before the promotion expires on April 27.

http://www.amtrak.com/50-off-weekend-travel-capitol-corridor-train

Of course my wife would either royally kick my ass or suspect me of something if I did this. She was questioning why I did this just once at the end of the year.

So of course there are the really short segments, but then there's the issue of tracking down a conductor. I've broken down tickets into a FMT-GAC segment, and sometimes I've sought out a conductor because I wanted to be recorded for AGR points.


----------



## SubwayNut (Jan 8, 2014)

I do "find the conductor" all the time on my NWK-NYP legs that are one of my point runs specialties that I add on to nearly every trip. The bigger issue is that if the conductors don't bother to turn on there scanners and log in to the Amtrak scanning App before you leave Penn Station they can't do any scanning until your nearly half-way through the trip leaving the North River Tunnels since the scanning app requires cell service to turn on (if its already on service doesn't matter)

The worst was once getting on a train to go just NWK-NYP that was terminating there. I flashed my ticket at the door. He said "I'll come find you!" He didn't and I went and found him just as we entered the tunnels. He had already turned his phone off, logged out of the app and I spent the ride through the tunnels explaining why I needed my ticket scanned because otherwise the rest of my trip would be in jeopardy! He finally logged back in and scanned me as I got off at Penn Station.


----------



## BCL (Jan 8, 2014)

SubwayNut said:


> I do "find the conductor" all the time on my NWK-NYP legs that are one of my point runs specialties that I add on to nearly every trip. The bigger issue is that if the conductors don't bother to turn on there scanners and log in to the Amtrak scanning App before you leave Penn Station they can't do any scanning until your nearly half-way through the trip leaving the North River Tunnels since the scanning app requires cell service to turn on (if its already on service doesn't matter)
> 
> The worst was once getting on a train to go just NWK-NYP that was terminating there. I flashed my ticket at the door. He said "I'll come find you!" He didn't and I went and found him just as we entered the tunnels. He had already turned his phone off, logged out of the app and I spent the ride through the tunnels explaining why I needed my ticket scanned because otherwise the rest of my trip would be in jeopardy! He finally logged back in and scanned me as I got off at Penn Station.


Emeryville to Berkeley is under 2 miles and takes about 3 minutes. I'm not sure, but it may be among the two closest stations on the same line anywhere on Amtrak. SKN-SKT is actually less than a mile in a straight line, but that's only served by a bus connector to connect ACE passengers to Amtrak. Now if I was only concerned about traveling I probably wouldn't care too much that my ticket didn't get pulled. However, for points runs I prefer Emeryville-Richmond because it takes about 12 minutes and I usually can track down a conductor.


----------



## FreeskierInVT (Jan 8, 2014)

Do the conductors say anything about getting your tickets scanned for points runs? Another thing I'm kinda curious about. Once on a trip from NLC-NHV the conductor was curious about why I took Amtrak for such a short trip. I was connecting to the Vermonter and wasn't doing it for points, rather the Shore Line East didn't have convenient times


----------



## BCL (Jan 8, 2014)

FreeskierInVT said:


> Do the conductors say anything about getting your tickets scanned for points runs? Another thing I'm kinda curious about. Once on a trip from NLC-NHV the conductor was curious about why I took Amtrak for such a short trip. I was connecting to the Vermonter and wasn't doing it for points, rather the Shore Line East didn't have convenient times


Usually when I'm in a hurry I tell the conductor I want the points. I've had cases where my reservation number was written down or where I tracked down the conductor who told me my ticket was already lifted on the San Joauin from Richmond to Emeryville. I always got the points. Where the conductor lifted my ticket, I was heading RIC-EMY-SFC. At Richmond I looked about a car length down where the conductor exited the train and he yelled out "GOING TO EMERYVILLE?" I nodded and he yelled back "GET ON!" When I tracked him down exiting at Emeryville, he said my kid and I were the only passengers he showed boarding at Richmond and that he simply pulled our tickets without looking anything else up.

I did do a few points runs where I threw in a stop at FMT from my BRK-GAC or OAC-GAC run. FMT-GAC is about 15 minutes and there are some people who make this trip, although ACE is cheaper. But as a one hour stopover it doesn't cost extra. One time the conductor looked at my complete ticket and specifically asked if I was doing it to get extra points (which I was).


----------

