# Twilight Rail?



## Exvalley (Dec 11, 2020)

Has anyone heard of this? I can't tell if it is serious or not, since half of the website is not even complete.









Twilight Rail







twilightrail.com


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## joelkfla (Dec 11, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> Has anyone heard of this? I can't tell if it is serious or not, since half of the website is not even complete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems suspicious that the address and phone number at the bottom are obviously template defaults.


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## jiml (Dec 11, 2020)

There's a lot of inconsistencies on the website, including a random language switch on the Q&A page. Someone has certainly gone to a lot of trouble though and have access to some interesting rolling stock - at least for pictures.


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## me_little_me (Dec 11, 2020)

It should be renamed TwilightZone.com


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## railiner (Dec 11, 2020)

I wonder if Amtrak knows that some of its cars and employees photos are being used in this “scheme”?


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 12, 2020)

It looks like a fantastic way to travel!

All they need is auto transport cars and a pet lounge car to make it complete!


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 12, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> Has anyone heard of this? I can't tell if it is serious or not, since half of the website is not even complete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 oh... just daydreaming...


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 12, 2020)

Dome cars. Can Amtrak bring them back?


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## Mailliw (Dec 13, 2020)

This sounds _way_ to good to be true.


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## bms (Dec 13, 2020)

Nothing but buzzwords. I'm trying to put together a presentation to start a small passenger railroad right now, and investors want to see information on how their investment could return real money. I doubt this company does anything other than put up that snazzy site.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 13, 2020)

tgstubbs1 said:


> Dome cars. Can Amtrak bring them back?


What's the point of a dome car for an overnight trip between LA and San Francisco?


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## railiner (Dec 14, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> What's the point of a dome car for an overnight trip between LA and San Francisco?


In this particular case, not so much, other than as a sales aid. 
That said,, back when short domes were in use, as long as the crew dimmed the lights at night, you had a surprisingly good view out, especially if you enjoyed watching the headlight play along the scenery, and watching the signals ahead...
On a bright moonlit night, you could see the scenery pretty well. The B&O used them on its Washington/Chicago overnight trains, and even equipped them with floodlights angled to light up the trackside scenery of the Allegheny's.


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## jiml (Dec 14, 2020)

railiner said:


> That said,, back when short domes were in use, as long as the crew dimmed the lights at night, you had a surprisingly good view out, especially if you enjoyed watching the headlight play along the scenery, and watching the signals ahead...
> On a bright moonlit night, you could see the scenery pretty well. The B&O used them on its Washington/Chicago overnight trains, and even equipped them with floodlights angled to light up the trackside scenery of the Allegheny's.


It's the same reason VIA had them on the Ocean. The scenery is pleasant enough, but not "dome-worthy" in the mountain sense. However, watching the route ahead at night as you've said or seeing the sun rise with your morning coffee/tea in the dome car are two of the great experiences of rail travel.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 14, 2020)

Sounds like fun to me.


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 14, 2020)

Just California Dreamin' - but as long as we are doing just that, make it a daytime run and enjoy the dome car! 'Warning' that this vid requires an investment in time... 14:48 minutes; but... if you have the time... c'mon along!


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## railiner (Dec 14, 2020)

Very nice...what do they charge for the one way trip?


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 14, 2020)

railiner said:


> Very nice...what do they charge for the one way trip?


A lot! Amtrak charges an arm and a leg to tow in compliance cars... and then there is all the expenses of crew, car, and et. So this is what they charge... A lot! BTW... all this is in past tense. Those days are probably gone forever.


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## NS VIA Fan (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> It's the same reason VIA had them on the Ocean. The scenery is pleasant enough, but not "dome-worthy" in the mountain sense. However, watching the route ahead at night as you've said or seeing the sun rise with your morning coffee/tea in the dome car are two of the great experiences of rail travel.



It's 9am and we're heading to Montreal on the _Ocean_ on a sunny and cold morning......but it warm and cozy up in the Dome and complementary coffee is available. You'd think the Dome would be full but it's wide open! And it was no different the previous day. The obvious railfans had staked out the front seats but most others would just wander up for a few minutes then return to their accommodations.


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## railiner (Dec 15, 2020)

It’s good to see dome cars are still alive and well, in regular service. Thanks for posting!


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## NS VIA Fan (Dec 15, 2020)

railiner said:


> It’s good to see dome cars are still alive and well, in regular service. Thanks for posting!



Regular Service ? .....The Ocean hasn't run since last March  and it's not clear if a Dome will return when the Ocean resumes in it's new 'Hybrid' configuration.


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## railiner (Dec 15, 2020)

I meant “regular” as opposed to “special” 
as in a private car, or an excursion train...


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Regular Service ? .....The Ocean hasn't run since last March  and it's not clear if a Dome will return when the Ocean resumes in it's new 'Hybrid' configuration.


Yeah, nice view of the locomotive from the bullet lounge.


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## Exvalley (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> Yeah, nice view of the locomotive from the bullet lounge.


And the smell of fresh diesel fumes.


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

I wonder if there's a dome currently on the Canadian restart out west, considering there's no Prestige Park, no lounge access and no movement from one's space except to the diner for breakfast and dinner. Coach passengers are getting at-seat service and sleeper passengers must eat lunch in their rooms. Would it make sense to tow cars that serve no revenue purpose?


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

NS VIA Fan said:


> It's 9am and we're heading to Montreal on the _Ocean_ on a sunny and cold morning......but it warm and cozy up in the Dome and complementary coffee is available. You'd think the Dome would be full but it's wide open! And it was no different the previous day. The obvious railfans had staked out the front seats but most others would just wander up for a few minutes then return to their accommodations.


Brought back memories...


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## NS VIA Fan (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> I wonder if there's a dome currently on the Canadian restart out west, considering there's no Prestige Park, no lounge access and no movement from one's space except to the diner for breakfast and dinner. Coach passengers are getting at-seat service and sleeper passengers must eat lunch in their rooms. Would it make sense to tow cars that serve no revenue purpose?



The first _Canadian_.....eastbound #2 from Vancouver to Winnipeg on Dec 11 did have a Park as well as a Skyline. Here's the consist reported on the CanPassRail Forum 

6428 F40
6454 F40
8600 Baggage
8102 Coach
8109 Coach
8517 Skyline
Acadian Diner
Drummond Manor 
Fraser Manor 
Chateau Levis 
Laurentide Park


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

NS VIA Fan said:


> The first _Canadian_.....eastbound #2 from Vancouver to Winnipeg on Dec 11 did have a Park as well as a Skyline. Here's the consist reported on the CanPassRail Forum
> 
> 6428 F40
> 6454 F40
> ...


That's seems odd. Since VIA's own website states no access to either why bother? It's like the recent Hudson Bay review though - the train had a sleeper for staff only.
VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver train trip


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## John Bredin (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver train trip


As a sidenote, I've never before today seen the hybrid A/E they're using to deal with _Canadian_ vs. _Canadien_. Does anyone know if this is Via's idiosyncrasy or something more broadly used?


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> As a sidenote, I've never before today seen the hybrid A/E they're using to deal with _Canadian_ vs. _Canadien_. Does anyone know if this is Via's idiosyncrasy or something more broadly used?


That's the only place I've ever seen it and frankly thought they were just trying to make the A look like a track. On the French side they do this:








VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver en train


Le train Toronto-Vancouver (le Canadien), dont les principaux arrêts sont à Winnipeg, Edmonton et Jasper, traverse les montagnes Rocheuses, les prairies canadiennes et le nord de l’Ontario.




www.viarail.ca


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## John Bredin (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> That's the only place I've ever seen it and frankly thought they were just trying to make the A look like a track. On the French side they do this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, as the funky A there is an "a" in both Canadian and Canadien. So VIA's affectation it is.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 15, 2020)

jiml said:


> That's seems odd. Since VIA's own website states no access to either why bother? It's like the recent Hudson Bay review though - the train had a sleeper for staff only.
> VIA Rail Canada: Toronto & Vancouver train trip


What a rip, theres a Skyline Dome and a Park Car and Passengers cant use them??!!( Guess the Crew is using the Park Car rooms?)


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## jiml (Dec 15, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> What a rip, theres a Skyline Dome and a Park Car and Passengers cant use them??!!( Guess the Crew is using the Park Car rooms?)


Interestingly, on my last Ocean trip (pre-Covid) we were the only revenue passengers in the Park car in both directions. Of the other rooms occupied they were by staff.


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 15, 2020)

"What? Woah! There are empty seats in the dome car this morning... and I can grab a hot coffee and go up there... I'm in!"

We just don't appreciate what we had... until it's gone.


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## NS VIA Fan (Dec 15, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> What a rip, theres a Skyline Dome and a Park Car and Passengers cant use them??!!( Guess the Crew is using the Park Car rooms?)


No...it's not a rip. It's for your safety in these Covid times. Don't think I'd want to be sitting in the confined space of a Dome.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 15, 2020)

NS VIA Fan said:


> No...it's not a rip. It's for your safety in these Covid times. Don't think I'd want to be sitting in the confined space of a Dome.


If you're wearing a Mask I don't see any difference between a Dome or the Park Car Lounge than any other Car in the consist, especially the Diner and Coaches.


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## bms (Dec 16, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> If you're wearing a Mask I don't see any difference between a Dome or the Park Car Lounge than any other Car in the consist, especially the Diner and Coaches.



The problem I've experienced is that I would never be in a car where everyone is properly wearing a mask. It didn't bother me as much in the summer when cases weren't as rampant, but it caused me to postpone my last 6 train trips.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 16, 2020)

railiner said:


> In this particular case, not so much, other than as a sales aid.
> That said,, back when short domes were in use, as long as the crew dimmed the lights at night, you had a surprisingly good view out, especially if you enjoyed watching the headlight play along the scenery, and watching the signals ahead...
> On a bright moonlit night, you could see the scenery pretty well. The B&O used them on its Washington/Chicago overnight trains, and even equipped them with floodlights angled to light up the trackside scenery of the Allegheny's.


Oh yeas, I enjoyed riding in the dome car of the Denver Zephyr at night. Any my wife and I once spent the whole night in the dome of the Capitol Limited, mostly because the people sitting next to us in coach were behaving obnoxiously (and we had bulkhead seats with poor window views.)

But the Capitol Limited is a 17 hour ride, and especially eastbound, there are a lot of scenic mountain views to be seen in daylight. On the other hand, the Oakland/Emeryville to LA ride takes about 12 hours (or at least that's the current schedule of the Coast Starlight), so an overnight run is not going to have a lot of scenery in daylight.

A Bay area to LA train would thus be a little lie the old Night Owl, or today's NER 65/66/67, it's a way to avoid paying for a night in a hotel, that's about it, with maybe some commuter traffic in and out of the end points. There's really no need for fancy cruise-train type service. All they really need is overnight coaches, sleepers, and a cafe/bar car. This service would be competing with SleepBus, not the Wagon Lits Orient Express of yore.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 16, 2020)

Do they turn off all of the lights? 

The lounge cars I rode in didn't always have the clearest windows. I guess the plexiglass fogs.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 16, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> What a rip, theres a Skyline Dome and a Park Car and Passengers cant use them??!!( Guess the Crew is using the Park Car rooms?)


The guy who made the video about the Via Churchill train also noted that the sleepers were closed off. In terms of Covid safety, I'm not sure that's necessary. In fact, news articles here in the states are quoting medical experts who say that booking a sleeper might be safer than riding in coach. I suspect that Via may not be selling sleeper space (especially on that train) because the anticipate that the revenue will be less than the costs of the attendant and whatever else is needed to operate the sleeper. But a 48-hour ride, sitting in coach! Even if you have most of the seats to yourself, that's an endurance ride!

I suspect that a lot of the "Covid" cutbacks we're seeing in all kinds of services are being done for financial reasons, not strictly medical reasons.


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 16, 2020)

When it's raining... like it is here... the dome car is the only place to be... snuggled up with coat and scarf as the heavens pour down... and paint a wet messy kaleidoscope of the cold out there...


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## jiml (Dec 16, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> I suspect that a lot of the "Covid" cutbacks we're seeing in all kinds of services are being done for financial reasons, not strictly medical reasons.


Exactly.


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## Willbridge (Dec 16, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> When it's raining... like it is here... the dome car is the only place to be... snuggled up with coat and scarf as the heavens pour down... and paint a wet messy kaleidoscope of the cold out there...



Now you're making me recall meals in the dome diners of the UP, always in the rain PDX <> SEA or PDX>THD. When we were kids we loved to watch the raindrops streaking along the windows. Our parents found this to be a reasonably priced way to teach us fine dining manners with enough distractions to keep small boys interested.

"No, you don't drink out of the finger bowl..." and "that's a butter knife and it belongs above the dinner plate."

And on my one dome diner lunch to THD for the dedication of the Dalles Dam my dad got to explain CTC as we passed a freight without a pause, both moving fast. Imagine trying to explain any off this to contemporary delayed diners.


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## railiner (Dec 17, 2020)

tgstubbs1 said:


> Do they turn off all of the lights?
> 
> The lounge cars I rode in didn't always have the clearest windows. I guess the plexiglass fogs.


They turned off the ceiling lights, once the train departed its terminal. Until about 10 PM, when they were turned off, the ceiling lights from the main level came into the dome somewhat, and some reflections. When they were turned down, it vastly improved the night visibility. Finally, there were alsle night lights on some of the seat supports. There were also night lights on some lucite stairway railings. Some of us would take our seat checks, or other cardboard material and attempt to cover those up, to further improve the view...

I believe they used glass, somewhat tinted, in the domes. Could possibly be thermopane type, and when the seals got old, moisture would get trapped between the layers. The front and rear center windows had a second window, that was part of the air conditioning duct to the ceiling. This could be opened to clean the glass inside.


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