# Seat assignments (Acela pilot Feb 2018)



## benale

MODERATOR NOTE: a 2018 thread regarding seat assignments on Acela was merged with this existing thread

This is always a sore subject. Last week I took the Capitol Limited to Pittsburgh from Chicago. Of course I was hoping for two seats to myself or an attractive friendly woman as a seatmate,but both of these never seem to happen. My seatmate was a rather gross individual with significant body odor. It was obvious he had been drinking. First thing he does is hit me up for money and then wants to engage in loud conversation. You know the type. I just put on my headsets and made the best of a bad situation. Of course everybody in my car was going to Pittsburgh,so there was no break.

My question is..I understand the different coaches for different destinations. Especially,when Pittsburgh arrives at 5AM,it's good to have all the Pittsburgh bound travelers in one car. Why can't we just pick our own seats in the assigned car? Yes, i know there are a few arranged for two or more people traveling together,but possibly they can be designated "couples only" before we leave? It would be nice to pick your own seat, and if worst comes to worst,you'll have my situation.

When traveling by plane, you really don't mind because it's rarely more than a five hour flight,but on a cross country train in coach you could be sitting next to someone for three days! At least, the Capitol Limited has The sightseer car to escape to, No such luck on the other Eastern trains.

I did survive the night having spent most of it in the Sightseer Car.


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## BCL

Depends on the train. I wasn't able to take a planned EMY-RNO trip due to the entire family coming down with illness, but I understand that's typically where the car is assigned but the seat is not early on. Then they probably start writing down seat numbers and shift passengers as cars begin to fill. However, I've heard what happens is often a matter of the preference of the crew.


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## SubwayNut

The crew as a matter of "Unofficial" policy tries to avoid seating unrelated members of the opposite sexes next to each other when they do seat assignments.

Two examples:

-Getting seat assignments for the Sunset Limited at the obnoxious information window in coach. I noticed the agent marking (M) or (W) on the adjoining seats for the second person to get their seat assignment.

-I got on the Southwest Chief once for a quick overnight ride from KCY to La Junta. I boarded right at the end (the ticket agent was furious for reclaiming my left-luggage only about 20 minutes before departure) and the conductors and train attended were completely overwelmed by boy scouts. I and a girl I was talking to getting on were directed to the sightseerer lounge and had a seat there after leaving my backpack in the lower-level baggage area of the Coach/Baggage Car. The attendant soon came and at first pointed out an aisle seat next to a tiny women who was fast asleep and I thought I might be able to get some sleep here. I went back to grab my luggage and bring it upstairs to the attendant saying "Girls need to Sleep next to girls" and assigning the other women to the seat. I instead got stuck next to a perfectly nice man with the big problem of the seat directly across from the stairs (meaning tons of light). I ended up being a Lounge lizard that night sprawling across 3 seats.


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## capltd29

One of the worst seating assignment processes I ever went through was when the conductor (or attendant, I don't remember) handed out seat numbers at the gate (at CHI) that were sequential. So it turned out no matter where you were in line you had a 50% chance of getting an Aisle seat next. I think Amtrak should be able to do advance seating at least on longer distance trains. It would really suck for example to be stuck in the Aisle next to a sleeping person for a cross-country journey. Certainly, I think depending on the situation discussing the problem with the conductor in the event that a seatmate is really bad (a thief, belligerent, really smelly or drunk) can be worthwhile.

Even charging $10-15 might be worthwhile for passengers who really want a window seat and could make the difference for them in the future when considering traveling.


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## Bob Dylan

Excellent idea! ( one of the few where Amtrak would do well to follow the airlines model)

It would be an excellent source of revenue and allow passengers that prefer certain seats to reserve said seats in advance! ( ie, avoiding the Seats across from the Stairs on a Supetliner Coach and by the end doors is worth a surcharge)

A $5-$10 fee for this would be OK IMHO!


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## A Voice

capltd29 said:


> Even charging $10-15 might be worthwhile for passengers who really want a window seat and could make the difference for them in the future when considering traveling.


Indeed, this is a good idea and would produce badly needed additional revenue (MegaBus uses a similar pricing model). However, you would have to be aware of how many "guaranteed window seats" could be sold; For each one sold you also need a single traveler (or one member of an odd-numbered party) to occupy the aisle seat, else you would displace parties of two from being able to sit together (maybe also offer guaranteed aisle seats, or seats near the restroom, etc.).


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## chakk

Tipping the coach attendant has sometimes worked for me in getting a nice seat for an overnight trip on the CZ when I joined the train halfway into its trip.


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## seat38a

Couple months ago, on Swiss Rail, they offer guaranteed seat assignment for 5 Francs which is about 5 USD. You can select your own seat and when you board, there is a small LCD sign above your seat, same location that Amtrak puts those colored seat checks, that says it is "Reserved." In the UK, there was no extra charge for reserving an assigned seat but what they do is put a "reserved" seat check with starting and ending destination on your seat.

I'd love to see something like this on the corridor services as well. It can be a big source of extra revenue per train especially busy ones. The current hurry up and wait system just makes the system less pleasing.


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## KmH

chakk said:


> Tipping the coach attendant has sometimes worked for me in getting a nice seat for an overnight trip on the CZ when I joined the train halfway into its trip.


Yep.


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## jis

This is the reason that I have promised myself that I will,never travel overnight by Amtrak Coach ever again. I stick to this rule for myself so firmly that when due to misconnect in Chicago Amtrak proposed to put me on Coach the next day, I arm wrestled them into refunding me the cash for that portion (not voucher) and flew that segment.

For a relatively short day ride it is fine. Worst case I can be a lounge lizard. But overnight - forget about it.


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## Train2104

Seat assignments are supposedly coming within the next couple years. But whether that includes LD's or just Regionals remains to be seen.

As to Megabus's model - it doesn't work too well unattended. I bought one of those premium seats once. There were plaques next to the seat that explain the situation, but nobody knew about it and people just took the seat anyway.


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## jis

In the US I have found that almost any rule can be broken feigning ignorance without fear of any significant consequences.


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## seat38a

jis said:


> In the US I have found that almost any rule can be broken feigning ignorance without fear of any significant consequences.


I do like the German / Swiss model much better. You pay the fine and hope you learned your lessen. Ignorance is fined and hope you don't do it next time.


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## Thirdrail7

Train2104 said:


> Seat assignments are supposedly coming within the next couple years. But whether that includes LD's or just Regionals remains to be seen.


You can count on the latter and the premium trains. The rest are still up in the air. I guarantee there will be issues.


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## neroden

Well, seat assignments would certainly help make sure I can get a pair of seats together. (I am rarely travelling alone.) It would save the attendants a lot of effort. And it would help me get in the *car I want*, i.e. next to the cafe when possible.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan

benale said:


> This is always a sore subject. Last week I took the Capitol Limited to Pittsburgh from Chicago. Of course I was hoping for two seats to myself or an attractive friendly woman as a seatmate,but both of these never seem to happen.


Good. I thought I was the only one with this fantasy.



SubwayNut said:


> The crew as a matter of "Unofficial" policy tries to avoid seating unrelated members of the opposite sexes next to each other when they do seat assignments.
> 
> Two examples:
> 
> -Getting seat assignments for the Sunset Limited at the obnoxious information window in coach. I noticed the agent marking (M) or (W) on the adjoining seats for the second person to get their seat assignment.
> 
> -I got on the Southwest Chief once for a quick overnight ride from KCY to La Junta. I boarded right at the end (the ticket agent was furious for reclaiming my left-luggage only about 20 minutes before departure) and the conductors and train attended were completely overwelmed by boy scouts. I and a girl I was talking to getting on were directed to the sightseerer lounge and had a seat there after leaving my backpack in the lower-level baggage area of the Coach/Baggage Car. The attendant soon came and at first pointed out an aisle seat next to a tiny women who was fast asleep and I thought I might be able to get some sleep here. I went back to grab my luggage and bring it upstairs to the attendant saying "Girls need to Sleep next to girls" and assigning the other women to the seat. I instead got stuck next to a perfectly nice man with the big problem of the seat directly across from the stairs (meaning tons of light). I ended up being a Lounge lizard that night sprawling across 3 seats.


I don't think I've ever had the guts to do it myself but if you're at least somewhat attractive to women you can always find an attractive woman waiting in line and try to talk to her and suggest if the two of you can sit together for the train (assuming you are going to the same location).

I believe many of my LD experiences they have assigned seating although some did not. I do like the idea as to saving some seats to couples in each car and letting the others pick their own seats. They ought to be able to figure out roughly what percentage of passengers are couples or even numbered traveling parties. Or assigned seating like the planes. I believe at least from an LD perspective people would be more likely to plan ahead. Honestly the way Amtrak assigns seats is a turnoff.


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## xyzzy

Advance seat assignments are available on many UK trains too, and elsewhere in Europe aside from short-haul, commuter, suburban trains etc.

The German implementation is especially nice because ICE cars have a small computer display above each seat that shows the cities between which the seat is reserved. When you board without a reservation, you know not to sit in a seat that is reserved between those cities. The displays are refreshed when there is seat turnover. UK trains with reserved seating depend on printed cards to mark reserved seats.

Boarding a European train at peak travel without a seat reservation means you may have to stand for long periods... like Amtrak NEC in the U.S. before it went all-reserved. Deutsche Bahn now includes a seat reservation in the price of each first-class ticket, but in second-class a ticket and a seat reservation remain separate.


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## A Voice

seat38a said:


> Couple months ago, on Swiss Rail, they offer guaranteed seat assignment for 5 Francs which is about 5 USD. You can select your own seat and when you board, there is a small LCD sign above your seat, same location that Amtrak puts those colored seat checks, that says it is "Reserved." In the UK, there was no extra charge for reserving an assigned seat but what they do is put a "reserved" seat check with starting and ending destination on your seat.
> 
> I'd love to see something like this on the corridor services as well. It can be a big source of extra revenue per train especially busy ones. The current hurry up and wait system just makes the system less pleasing.


While the idea of _seat assignments_ has merit, actually permitting passengers to _select their own seats_ won't work on Amtrak without (perhaps severely) reducing the capacity of the train. There is far too much traffic to/from intermediate points for this to ever be practical; You would end up with situations where there are plenty of empty seats available, but no one single seat for the entire duration of the passengers' trip. Of course, you could permit people to make a 'forced choice' of several available seats, taking into consideration already existing reservations


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## jis

One can always use a quota system to make self-selection seat inventories available. After the quota runs out one would have to go through an agent. This seems to work everywhere else in the world with lots of intermediate traffic. No reason it wouldn't work in the US with relatively low usage of trains.


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## mfastx

Train2104 said:


> Seat assignments are supposedly coming within the next couple years. But whether that includes LD's or just Regionals remains to be seen.
> 
> As to Megabus's model - it doesn't work too well unattended. I bought one of those premium seats once. There were plaques next to the seat that explain the situation, but nobody knew about it and people just took the seat anyway.


Wait what? Can you link me on this? That'd be amazing and frankly, long overdue.

I have no idea why I can't pick my seat when making a reservation online.


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## seat38a

A Voice said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> 
> Couple months ago, on Swiss Rail, they offer guaranteed seat assignment for 5 Francs which is about 5 USD. You can select your own seat and when you board, there is a small LCD sign above your seat, same location that Amtrak puts those colored seat checks, that says it is "Reserved." In the UK, there was no extra charge for reserving an assigned seat but what they do is put a "reserved" seat check with starting and ending destination on your seat.
> 
> I'd love to see something like this on the corridor services as well. It can be a big source of extra revenue per train especially busy ones. The current hurry up and wait system just makes the system less pleasing.
> 
> 
> 
> While the idea of _seat assignments_ has merit, actually permitting passengers to _select their own seats_ won't work on Amtrak without (perhaps severely) reducing the capacity of the train. There is far too much traffic to/from intermediate points for this to ever be practical; You would end up with situations where there are plenty of empty seats available, but no one single seat for the entire duration of the passengers' trip. Of course, you could permit people to make a 'forced choice' of several available seats, taking into consideration already existing reservations
Click to expand...

Not understanding how it won't work? The majority of the trains already have reserved coach seating. Unless they are overselling, which is Amtrak's problem, in theory your guaranteed a seat, meaning there is a seat already somewhere on the train designated for you. Even if you buy a ticket somewhere intermediate, in theory they are only selling you a ticket for an available seat between where you are getting on and the final destination.


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## Ryan

Consider an oversimplification and a three seat, three stop train with four potential riders.

Today: Rider AC1 buys a ticket. Rider AB buys a ticket. Rider BC buys a ticket. When AC2 comes along, he is able to buy a ticket.

In an alternate universe:

AC1 buys a ticket for seat 1.

AB buys a ticket for seat 2.

BC buys a ticket for seat 3.

What happens to AC2? There are no seats available for his desired grip from A to C.

Obviously, there are workarounds, like presenting him or her with the seat but forcing them to change seats.

It gets a lot more complicated, but that's the gist of it.


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## Bob Dylan

jis said:


> One can always use a quota system to make self-selection seat inventories available. After the quota runs out one would have to go through an agent. This seems to work everywhere else in the world with lots of intermediate traffic. No reason it wouldn't work in the US with relatively low usage of trains.


Post of the Day! Ditto!


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## PeeweeTM

BC is offered to 'chose' seat 2.

AC2 is offered to pick seat 3.

Full house! ;-)


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## SarahZ

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> benale said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is always a sore subject. Last week I took the Capitol Limited to Pittsburgh from Chicago. Of course I was hoping for two seats to myself or an* attractive friendly woman as a seatmate*,but both of these never seem to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. I thought I was the only one with this *fantasy*.
Click to expand...

You aren't, and this is one of the reasons why 1) some women prefer to sit next to other women and 2) some car attendants will seat women with other women.

I'm not a prude by any means, but I also don't like sleeping hip-to-hip with a strange man; it is outside of my comfort limits. The one time I was seated next to a man, I spent the entire night (awake) in the lounge car because it was a sold out train and I couldn't move to another seat.

He was a nice gentleman, and we had a wonderful chat about the southwest states, but I still didn't want to sleep practically snuggled up to him.


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## northnorthwest

Amtrak should have it set up so you choose your seat in advance. End of story. It would simplify everything. Even on the NEC it is absurd how everyone gets on and then wanders aimlessly trying to find 2 open seats, etc. Way too much unnecessary commotion and waste of time. You should have an assigned car and seat, and then you can wait on the platform by that car in advance and board and go right to your open seat. The end. If they can do it in Europe and Korea and other places, there's no reason why they can't do it here.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan

SarahZ said:


> Philly Amtrak Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benale said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is always a sore subject. Last week I took the Capitol Limited to Pittsburgh from Chicago. Of course I was hoping for two seats to myself or an* attractive friendly woman as a seatmate*,but both of these never seem to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. I thought I was the only one with this *fantasy*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You aren't, and this is one of the reasons why 1) some women prefer to sit next to other women and 2) some car attendants will seat women with other women.
> 
> I'm not a prude by any means, but I also don't like sleeping hip-to-hip with a strange man; it is outside of my comfort limits. The one time I was seated next to a man, I spent the entire night (awake) in the lounge car because it was a sold out train and I couldn't move to another seat.
> 
> He was a nice gentleman, and we had a wonderful chat about the southwest states, but I still didn't want to sleep practically snuggled up to him.
Click to expand...

You make it sound like men who want to sit next to women are perverts who at best want to cuddle and well I don't even want to think about the worst. Are there people like that? Hopefully not but if Amtrak car attendants have to separate women they probably are. I do not have these intentions and don't think a lot of men who want to sit next to women have these intentions either. I would guess there are also single women who would prefer to sit next to men. I think two people of opposite sexes can enjoy a trip together without physical contact or the fear of such.


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## Ryan

If you fantasize about getting next to sit next to a girl, that is in fact pretty creepy. Doubly so when you're talking about Amtrak coach, which is potentially an overnight situation on a tiny loveseat without an armrest.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan

Fantasy was a poor choice of words. I apologize.


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## jis

Can't you guys get close to women in less confined setting than train seats? Sheesh! 

A special problem in Amtrak LD coach is the total absence of an armrest between the two seats. Who dreamed up that idea I wonder!


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## Bob Dylan

To paraphrase the late and great Nelson Rockefeller: "I never want to sleep with anyone that I'm not on most intimate terms with!"

Unfortunately Philly the world is full of creepy guys that give the rest of us a bad name! 

As men we have to put up with the crap that these pervs inflict on

Women!

Pretty much all of us that have ridden overnight in Coach prefer to have two seats to ourselves, but of course Sleepers are the way to roll!


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## benale

I guess it's a male thing(straight males) that two strange men usually don't want to spend the night in coach in the same seat. Guess it doesn't matter as much with women.. I would prefer sitting next to a woman than a man in coach,but of course, the best is getting two seats to yourself,which rarely happens. Of course sleepers are the obvious option,but a lot of people can't afford them. They have really gone up in price.

Several times I have met nice woman on line, struck up a conversation and asked if she wouldn't mind sitting together. Other times I've met women after we boarded and ended up sitting next to them. I've taken many cross country coach trips,so the odds of this happening is not bad. A few relationships also blossomed,but they were short lived.

If worst comes to worst and the train is full and you are sitting next to an undesirable person(drunk,smells,etc) there is always the option of the Sightseer Car. A little tougher on the viewliners,where all you have is the cafe car.


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## R30A

I've slept next to men and women on the train. I've had pleasant and unpleasant neighbors of both genders. My real preference is generally that the person regardless of gender be small. Makes it easier to get around them without disturbing them on a LD coach.


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## BCL

benale said:


> I guess it's a male thing(straight males) that two strange men usually don't want to spend the night in coach in the same seat. Guess it doesn't matter as much with women.. I would prefer sitting next to a woman than a man in coach,but of course, the best is getting two seats to yourself,which rarely happens. Of course sleepers are the obvious option,but a lot of people can't afford them. They have really gone up in price.


On a redeye or transoceanic flight you probably have little choice. Heck - there was a day when staying at a boarding house or dormitory meant two to a bed, with each man sleeping in an opposite direction. The first time I saw a bed like that I thought it was odd. It was at an historic US Army installation. On the CS I was seated next to a guy. We managed to coexist for the entire ride without saying a single word to each other. I had the window and he had the aisle. If I had to come in I would just bob my head in the direction of my seat and he would tuck his feet in. I was planning on telling him that he forgot his USB power adapter and cable, but he was already at the door when we got to EMY, and I couldn't get through the line of off boarding passengers (and I was getting off there too).



R30A said:


> I've slept next to men and women on the train. I've had pleasant and unpleasant neighbors of both genders. My real preference is generally that the person regardless of gender be small. Makes it easier to get around them without disturbing them on a LD coach.


I'm not sure what Amtrak attendants are thinking. I suppose each one has a different idea of what someone's comfort level might be. I have been in a situation where I was about to be seated next to an obese man on a plane, and there were only two seats across. I took another seat and the flight attendants didn't complain. Even if someone is small, they might still use the leg and foot rests. That might get a little bit tricky once they're asleep.


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## StriderGDM

I've always taken the window seat when taking coach overnight. In part to look out the window, in part to have easier access to the outlet.

But I think one of these times I'll try the aisle so I can get up and out easier.


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## Ryan

Window seat is all about having the wall to lean up against and sleep (in addition to the benefits you mention).


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## wdscott

Found this in the version 8 service manual:

_TAC – Upon Departure and En Route Responsibilities
a) Receiving Passengers
• Wipe all hand railings and grab irons.
• Place the step box securely on the platform
whenever the distance from the lower car step
is 12 inches or more.
• As passengers approach the car, call out the
destination of the train, and the destinations
assigned to the car.
• Assist passengers with the boarding process.
• Assist passengers with luggage.
• Remain on the ground until the Conductor
signals the train is ready to depart.
• Late boarding passengers will be allowed to
board at any opening and then escorted to
their car.
REV. No. 1 10-30-14
Service Standards Manual No. 8
6-77• Ensure that the vestibule doors and outside
windows are properly closed and secured.
• Continually update seating diagram for
boarding and detraining passengers.
• Update the seating diagram as the Conductor
makes the ticket lift.
• Verify this information periodically with the
Conductor.
• Notify the Conductor of any ticketing problems.
• Direct the passenger to their seat.
• Make every effort to seat families and groups
together.
• Coordinate group seating with the Conductor._

The train car attendant (TAC) is the only role I could find with responsibilities specific to seating. Of course we know many trains don't have a TAC, or better stated, not all cars have a TAC. I'm sure most us would recognize that (Assitant) Conductors play this role, too.

No mention of gender separation or any other such requirements.

For whatever that's worth!

--Bill


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## Seaboard92

I'll be honest I prefer to sit next to someone who is older then me. I find them more mature. Or to sit next to a women again my age and older. As I find the women act more mature then the guys do. And if I have to sit with you I prefer someone I can get along with. For whatever reason in life I've done better with female friends then males.


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## Asher

Size matters.


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## HP_Lovecraft

northnorthwest said:


> Amtrak should have it set up so you choose your seat in advance. End of story. It would simplify everything.


For me, I like to bring my kids on trips. Sometimes 2 kids. Sometimes even 5 kids. Its always important to me to make sure we are all sitting together. Sure, "choosing a seat in advance" may solve that problem, but it also might mean that by the time I go to pick the seats, there will be nothing left but random aisle seats.

I don't count on the conductor to "let groups with children board first" since that almost never happens. I try to board at terminal points, and be first in line.


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## Hal

HP_Lovecraft said:


> northnorthwest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak should have it set up so you choose your seat in advance. End of story. It would simplify everything.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, I like to bring my kids on trips. Sometimes 2 kids. Sometimes even 5 kids. Its always important to me to make sure we are all sitting together. Sure, "choosing a seat in advance" may solve that problem, but it also might mean that by the time I go to pick the seats, there will be nothing left but random aisle seats.
> 
> I don't count on the conductor to "let groups with children board first" since that almost never happens. I try to board at terminal points, and be first in line.
Click to expand...

The best thing to do if you have 2 kids or 5 kids is have a Red Cap pre board your family group.

I don't think seat assignments will simplify everything. It will just create a different set of isues for people to whine about.


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## jis

But if you happen to book early to get low fares you will get your five seats together with seat assignment, and once you have them they are guaranteed to remain so. I know the rest of the stupid world has figured it out. It might take the geniuses in the exceptional US of A, who have taken a world class passenger railroad system and basically run it into the ground over half a century or more a while yet to rediscover the obvious.


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## SarahZ

jis said:


> But if you happen to book early to get low fares you will get your five seats together with seat assignment, and once you have them they are guaranteed to remain so. I know the rest of the stupid world has figured it out. It might take the geniuses in the exceptional US of A, who have taken a world class passenger railroad system and basically run it into the ground over half a century or more a while yet to rediscover the obvious.


Seriously. This is no different than families who wait until the last minute to book airline tickets. You either deal with being split up, or you ask strangers if they would be so kind as to switch seats so you can sit together.


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## Thirdrail7

Hal said:


> HP_Lovecraft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> northnorthwest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak should have it set up so you choose your seat in advance. End of story. It would simplify everything.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, I like to bring my kids on trips. Sometimes 2 kids. Sometimes even 5 kids. Its always important to me to make sure we are all sitting together. Sure, "choosing a seat in advance" may solve that problem, but it also might mean that by the time I go to pick the seats, there will be nothing left but random aisle seats.
> 
> I don't count on the conductor to "let groups with children board first" since that almost never happens. I try to board at terminal points, and be first in line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The best thing to do if you have 2 kids or 5 kids is have a Red Cap pre board your family group.
> 
> I don't think seat assignments will simplify everything. It will just create a different set of isues for people to whine about.
Click to expand...


Indeed. This is one of the reasons it wasn't implemented. If you recall, the Acela sets were supposed to have assigned seating. After the passengers started rebelling, it was quickly shelved. Same goes for a few "medium" long distance trains. People didn't like being assigned to seats. A great deal of passengers consider open seating to be one of the marketable differences between the airlines and the rails.

When it comes up again, it will be for specific reason..which I obviously can't get into on this board.


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## Ryan

Thirdrail7 said:


> When it comes up again, it will be for specific reason..which I obviously can't get into on this board.


ZOMG, Amtrak is going to start charging a premium for window seats!


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## jis

There is no conflict between open seating and reserved assigned seating if the British or Japanese model is followed. A fixed number of seats in specific reserved assigned seating cars are offered for assigned seat reservation, sometimes even for an extra nominal reservation surcharge, thus making the car sort of a Premium car, where you pay the premium to get into it and get an assigned seat, and you don;t get into it if you have not paid the premium. There are other cars with open seating. They go so far as to make the open seating cars really open, i.e. no reservation of any kind and if you luck is not good, you get to stand. The Japanese do this even on their Shinkansen, even on the higher speed Hikaris. only the ecclusive highest speed Nozomis are all all reserved. The French will happily sell you a reserved ticket on a TGV with no seat assignment, which usually means you get to sit on one of the drop down seats by the doors if the train is full. The Germans do not insist on any reservations on the ICE trains, but often, if you want to actually have a seat on a heavily booked train, it is better to have a reservation. ICE trains at heavy travel hours carry many standees.

But there are other case, though uncommon, of reserved open seating too, where you have to have a reservation to get in a particular car, but can sit wherever in that car.

If we wish to find a solution there is one. OTOH, if we just want to make up excuses for not doing something. There are many of those too.


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## Thirdrail7

jis said:


> If we wish to find a solution there is one. OTOH, if we just want to make up excuses for not doing something. There are many of those too.


Of course, there are plenty of people with solutions to problems that don't really exist.


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## jis

Whether a problem exists or not is a matter of opinion. Just dismissing something by a wave a hand saying it does not exist is not a reasonable way to treat a possible problem that is being raised by some, unless of course one just wants to use ones imprimatur to force ones opinion on others  That does happen a lot when people think they are in a position of unassailable power all over the world, so it is not at all out of the ordinary. Indeed, it is almost expected from many.


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## Thirdrail7

jis said:


> Whether a problem exists or not is a matter of opinion. Just dismissing something by a wave a hand saying it does not exist is not a reasonable way to treat a possible problem that is being raised by some, unless of course one just wants to use ones imprimatur to force ones opinion on others  That does happen a lot when people think they are in a position of unassailable power all over the world, so it is not at all out of the ordinary. Indeed, it is almost expected from many.


Indeed. That is what makes this thread and board entertaining. Problems are often subjective. So are the "solutions," since they can often have unintended consequences for others since most people are concerned about 'their" point of view.

Some say assigned seating. Some say unreserved seating, Some say open seating. Some say no seating. The car is too hot, the car is too cold. The ride is too rough, the ride is just fine.

And the beat goes on.


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## Trollopian

If I recall, on German and Austrian trains, a seat reservation (which you purchase separately from your travel reservation) is a "sitzplatz." Pretty easy to translate.


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## neroden

Thirdrail7 said:


> Indeed. This is one of the reasons it wasn't implemented. If you recall, the Acela sets were supposed to have assigned seating. After the passengers started rebelling, it was quickly shelved. Same goes for a few "medium" long distance trains. People didn't like being assigned to seats. A great deal of passengers consider open seating to be one of the marketable differences between the airlines and the rails.


There's something confused about this statement.

Nobody likes "being assigned to seats" by an arbitrary, unaccountable bureaucracy. Which is one form of assigned seating.

Everyone likes *picking their own seat*. Which is another form of assigned seating. This is what many airlines have done for a long time, with neat little diagrams of the airliner layout, so you can pick the exact seats you want. It incidentally encourages people to book earlier -- you get more choice of seats!

I would absolutely advise Amtrak to go with the *second* form of assigned seating. The first form is unwise.


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## HP_Lovecraft

neroden said:


> I would absolutely advise Amtrak to go with the *second* form of assigned seating. The first form is unwise.


But assigned seating tends to have the effect of making harder for groups of 2 or more to sit together. and it also introduces a way for rail companies to charge extra for something. and since trains have stops en route, you can not simple have an assigned seating system, it has to be a tiered system, which makes a simple operation very complicated.

In all the times I travelled on european trains, I never picked my own seats.


----------



## Hal

neroden said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. This is one of the reasons it wasn't implemented. If you recall, the Acela sets were supposed to have assigned seating. After the passengers started rebelling, it was quickly shelved. Same goes for a few "medium" long distance trains. People didn't like being assigned to seats. A great deal of passengers consider open seating to be one of the marketable differences between the airlines and the rails.
> 
> 
> 
> There's something confused about this statement.
> Nobody likes "being assigned to seats" by an arbitrary, unaccountable bureaucracy. Which is one form of assigned seating.
> 
> Everyone likes *picking their own seat*. Which is another form of assigned seating. This is what many airlines have done for a long time, with neat little diagrams of the airliner layout, so you can pick the exact seats you want. It incidentally encourages people to book earlier -- you get more choice of seats!
> 
> I would absolutely advise Amtrak to go with the *second* form of assigned seating. The first form is unwise.
Click to expand...

I am waiting at the airport right now for a flight and there is no assigned seating. I get to pick my own seat on the plane. Southwest seems to do quite well with their system. And I never see any unfilled seats.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BCL

neroden said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. This is one of the reasons it wasn't implemented. If you recall, the Acela sets were supposed to have assigned seating. After the passengers started rebelling, it was quickly shelved. Same goes for a few "medium" long distance trains. People didn't like being assigned to seats. A great deal of passengers consider open seating to be one of the marketable differences between the airlines and the rails.
> 
> 
> 
> There's something confused about this statement.
> 
> Nobody likes "being assigned to seats" by an arbitrary, unaccountable bureaucracy. Which is one form of assigned seating.
> 
> Everyone likes *picking their own seat*. Which is another form of assigned seating. This is what many airlines have done for a long time, with neat little diagrams of the airliner layout, so you can pick the exact seats you want. It incidentally encourages people to book earlier -- you get more choice of seats!
> 
> I would absolutely advise Amtrak to go with the *second* form of assigned seating. The first form is unwise.
Click to expand...

The airlines have also unnecessarily complicated things by charging a premium for window/aisle/exit-row seats. It gets to the point where people start asking for trades with others who paid a premium to secure their seats.

Of course that's a matter of airlines having three seats across. I wouldn't expect that Amtrak would charge a premium, although perhaps a charge for a selection.


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## Cho Cho Charlie

neroden said:


> Everyone likes *picking their own seat*. Which is another form of assigned seating. This is what many airlines have done for a long time, with neat little diagrams of the airliner layout, so you can pick the exact seats you want. It incidentally encourages people to book earlier -- you get more choice of seats!


Are all of these suggestions simply moving the coach seating problem around?

Plan "A" has the conductor assign people to seats upon boarding. Plan "B" has the ticket agent assign people to seats upon sale. Plan "A" and plan "B" do nothing but change the location of seat assignment; they are still being assigned. If a passenger is unhappy because they need 8 seats all together, they simply have a different person to blame or argue with.

Plan "X" has the passenger choose their seats from those still available from a diagram upon booking. Plan "Y" has the passenger choose their seats from those still available upon entering the train. Plan "X" and plan "Y" do nothing to create additional available seats (in clumps of 8?) for the passenger who is unhappy because they need 8 seats together and such isn't currently available. Yea, with plan "X" they can book early, before others, but with plan "Y" they can arrive at the station early, before the others, too. Same problem just changing the time/when of seat assignment/selection.


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## neroden

Most people accept that the early reservation gets priority, which is why plan "X" creates the least complaint. All the others involve early reservation holders potentially getting shafted in favor of later reservers.


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## PVD

Neroden is correct. Most reservation systems allow selection based on earlier gets first choice. Sometimes priority levels or fees apply to certain locations. That is their business model. Even open seating airlines like Southwest allow you to pay a fee to be in an earlier boarding group. And airlines have plans in place to deal with plane swaps, the aviation equivalent of swapping for a bad ordered car. Was on a twin aisle 767 that returned to airport after takeoff, substituted a single aisle 757. Life went on.


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## PVD

It is not the job of a transportation carrier to make everyone happy. Every system will have some scenario where one group or another is put out. The trick is to minimize the inconvenience as often as possible, recognizing that it is not reasonable to think you can please everyone all the time. If you show up at the last minute with a group of 4-5, don't expect the other 50 people in a car to be pleased with getting re arranged to accomodate. Now you may be pleased, but someone else is not, even if they begrudgingly accept it and don't speak out and tolerate it.


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## Seaboard92

In my experience as a private car attendant. One of which was a former LD coach. I think it's better for the TA-C to do the assignments. We get our manifest in the morning and we can best assign our seats that way. Like we had two 8 person groups. Then a two and then two singles. In our dome. And downstairs we had three six groups several fours and almost no singles. And everyone wanted a window seat. But we're able to manage it better


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## BCL

PVD said:


> Neroden is correct. Most reservation systems allow selection based on earlier gets first choice. Sometimes priority levels or fees apply to certain locations. That is their business model. Even open seating airlines like Southwest allow you to pay a fee to be in an earlier boarding group. And airlines have plans in place to deal with plane swaps, the aviation equivalent of swapping for a bad ordered car. Was on a twin aisle 767 that returned to airport after takeoff, substituted a single aisle 757. Life went on.


While that's the case now, I've flown international where many airlines charge extra for seat selection. The result is that most passengers don't get seats until checkin. I've also been on the same plane as large student group, and it's crazy with 60 kids and chaperones on a 747.

The traditional airline model was that one got a seat assignment at checkin, and of course that was before online or even automated kiosk options were available. If you wanted a better selection, you showed up at the airport early. That's not much different than some trains if you board at the origin. I got in line early for the CS and was one of the to get assigned a seat in my assigned car.


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## Steve4031

Singles will always get the shaft if it's left up to the assignments being done onboard the train. If I am organized enough to get online and select and book my window seat early, then I'm happy. If I am traveling at the last minute, and see that my preferred choices are not available I can change dates or trains to get what I want. If that's still not possible, I am going to go with the flow. The same applies to dealing with a reservation agent or ticket agent ahead of time.

Nothing aggravates me more as a single than when I get to the station early, I am near the front of the line, spend 30 minutes standing and then get to door of the car and am assigned an aisle seat so the attendant can placate groups when there is a large selection of window seats. The same applies to talgo services where the conductor assigns seats. They do the same thing.


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## BCL

Steve4031 said:


> Singles will always get the shaft if it's left up to the assignments being done onboard the train. If I am organized enough to get online and select and book my window seat early, then I'm happy. If I am traveling at the last minute, and see that my preferred choices are not available I can change dates or trains to get what I want. If that's still not possible, I am going to go with the flow. The same applies to dealing with a reservation agent or ticket agent ahead of time.
> 
> Nothing aggravates me more as a single than when I get to the station early, I am near the front of the line, spend 30 minutes standing and then get to door of the car and am assigned an aisle seat so the attendant can placate groups when there is a large selection of window seats. The same applies to talgo services where the conductor assigns seats. They do the same thing.


However, you're not dealing with a large group of unhappy passengers. They're not making the assignments for your benefit but to make their jobs easier. They have a much different philosophy.


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## seat38a

HP_Lovecraft said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would absolutely advise Amtrak to go with the *second* form of assigned seating. The first form is unwise.
> 
> 
> 
> But assigned seating tends to have the effect of making harder for groups of 2 or more to sit together. and it also introduces a way for rail companies to charge extra for something. and since trains have stops en route, you can not simple have an assigned seating system, it has to be a tiered system, which makes a simple operation very complicated.
> 
> In all the times I travelled on european trains, I never picked my own seats.
Click to expand...

Ok, so how is it harder for a group to sit together? You login in see the seat map pick the two seats next to each other, reserve it, show up and sit in those seats. I was in Europe in September, and on all reserved trains, I was given a seat map, got to pick the seats in the car I wanted and had the car and the seat numbers printed on my ticket. We were a group of four so we picked and reserved a table. Did this in England, France and Switzerland. On some of the trains, it even showed the direction of travel so people who have a problem sitting backwards pick the correct seat.


----------



## jis

It seems to me that many proffering opinions here may have relatively limited experience actually using various systems that allow either self-assigned seats or seats selected with the help of an agent at the time of reservation or at some point between the ticket purchase and the actual journey. Travel companies that have implemented such have generally not faced the corner cases brought up here all that often because they have work arounds in place. In general they apparently have reasonably happy customers since apparently a vast majority of them now allow such. Of course we know that the US is exceptional, and this may be another example of such specially for intercity trains in the US.

As I write this I am traveling by Virgin Trains on one of its Edinburgh - Euston service in a specific seat reserved with the help of a nice lady agent at Euston station a couple of days back for no charge using a Britrail Pass. There is a group of six and many couples some even boarding en route who all are sitting together in seats they reserved with the help of agents or on the web. They knew exactly which car they were in and where that car platforms at each station so no mad rush after the train arrives. They were allowed to be on the platform way before the train arrived. On the whole an amazingly different and better experience than on Amtrak any day.

Actually overall I find Virgin Trains to be better than Amtrak on day trains in almost every way, even more so in first class.


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## seat38a

jis said:


> It seems to me that many proffering opinions here may have relatively limited experience actually using various systems that allow either self-assigned seats or seats selected with the help of an agent at the time of reservation or at some point between the ticket purchase and the actual journey. Travel companies that have implemented such have generally not faced the corner cases brought up here all that often because they have work arounds in place. In general they apparently have reasonably happy customers since apparently a vast majority of them now allow such. Of course we know that the US is exceptional, and this may be another example of such specially for intercity trains in the US.
> 
> As I write this I am traveling by Virgin Trains on one of its Edinburgh - Euston service in a specific seat reserved with the help of a nice lady agent at Euston station a couple of days back for no charge using a Britrail Pass. There is a group of six and many couples some even boarding en route who all are sitting together in seats they reserved with the help of agents or on the web. They knew exactly which car they were in and where that car platforms at each station so no mad rush after the train arrives. They were allowed to be on the platform way before the train arrived. On the whole an amazingly different and better experience than on Amtrak any day.
> 
> Actually overall I find Virgin Trains to be better than Amtrak on day trains in almost every way, even more so in first class.


Did they have those pre printed "reserved" tags sticking out of the head rest when you boarded? I thought it was much "classier" than the Amtrak, folds, tears, punches or whatever other combination they use with the colored seat checks.


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## BCL

seat38a said:


> Ok, so how is it harder for a group to sit together? You login in see the seat map pick the two seats next to each other, reserve it, show up and sit in those seats. I was in Europe in September, and on all reserved trains, I was given a seat map, got to pick the seats in the car I wanted and had the car and the seat numbers printed on my ticket. We were a group of four so we picked and reserved a table. Did this in England, France and Switzerland. On some of the trains, it even showed the direction of travel so people who have a problem sitting backwards pick the correct seat.


No doubt it's possible from a technical standpoint, but then again it might get interesting if Arrow could handle it. I'm pretty sure that adding seat selection to airline websites required a lot of work.

Of course you could end up with the same issue as other carriers, which may include charges for seat selection as well as a premium for certain seat types. Add on top of that the discretion to force people out of seats that they paid extra to "secure", such as when families with small children are split up.

Be careful what you ask for, since you might just get it.


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## jis

Anybody can create a poor set of policies. Fear of such should not prevent us from enabling good set of policies. So yeah, I have no fear of asking for a good set of policies and kibitzing about bad ones.

Seat38, this is on a Virgin Pendolino. They have electronic displays on top of each seat showing what stations they are reserved upto and where they are free. I am told this detail is not on all trains yet though. In the older system it simply identifies a seat as reserved or free. As long as a reserved seat is actually not occupied by someone holding a reservation ticket for it, it is fair game. So no seat goes to waste in case of no shows either.


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## seat38a

jis said:


> Anybody can create a poor set of policies. Fear of such should not prevent us from enabling good set of policies. So yeah, I have no fear of asking for a good set of policies and kibitzing about bad ones.
> 
> Seat38, this is on a Virgin Pendolino. They have electronic displays on top of each seat showing what stations they are reserved upto and where they are free. I am told this detail is not on all trains yet though. In the older system it simply identifies a seat as reserved or free. As long as a reserved seat is actually not occupied by someone holding a reservation ticket for it, it is fair game. So no seat goes to waste in case of no shows either.


Got it. I was on a Intercity 125 of First Great Western and used the tag on the headrest method. In Switzerland they used the electronic display on the Zentralbahn trains.


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## BCL

A Voice said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> 
> Couple months ago, on Swiss Rail, they offer guaranteed seat assignment for 5 Francs which is about 5 USD. You can select your own seat and when you board, there is a small LCD sign above your seat, same location that Amtrak puts those colored seat checks, that says it is "Reserved." In the UK, there was no extra charge for reserving an assigned seat but what they do is put a "reserved" seat check with starting and ending destination on your seat.
> 
> I'd love to see something like this on the corridor services as well. It can be a big source of extra revenue per train especially busy ones. The current hurry up and wait system just makes the system less pleasing.
> 
> 
> 
> While the idea of _seat assignments_ has merit, actually permitting passengers to _select their own seats_ won't work on Amtrak without (perhaps severely) reducing the capacity of the train. There is far too much traffic to/from intermediate points for this to ever be practical; You would end up with situations where there are plenty of empty seats available, but no one single seat for the entire duration of the passengers' trip. Of course, you could permit people to make a 'forced choice' of several available seats, taking into consideration already existing reservations
Click to expand...

I may be possible. It's not necessarily the same thing, but hotels manage to book guests to stays with varying and overlapping dates. To some degree that's the same as having many intermediate stops. I've even stayed at some hotels or B&Bs where the specific room has to be selected. I suppose what Amtrak's reservation system does is to make sure that there is capacity but without necessarily assuming that everyone would stay in the same seat for the duration of their trip without moving.

Of course I've ended up with a suite at no extra cost because someone messed up giving the last regular room, and I came in late.


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## jis

And somehow a mix of pre-assigned seats with passengers' consent and unreserved seats works on the train that I am on which has 16 stops on its route from Edinburgh Waverley to London Euston and there are many runs per day, even more so on weekdays with bigger crowds.

I am not suggesting that Amtrak in its present state can handle it, evidently not. But to claim it is impossible is plain BS. I just need to provide one counter example and there are many that can be produced.


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## PVD

Adding seat selection to the airline websites wasn't that bad because the seat selection process already existed within their reservation systems. It used to be accessed primarily by travel agent or internal reservation systems, so the front ending needed to be created, but the functionality pre dated web access. What has made things more complex, but certainly not overwhelming to program, are the matching of fare types, prority levels and fee payers, to the appropriate inventories. And the time and date where certain inventories like exit rows open..


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## mfastx

The main benefit of choosing your seats when you book online is that you and any travelers with you can ensure that you sit together. It's a hassle getting on a crowded train and scrambling to find more than one seat available together.

Seat assignments work just fine in Europe, there's no reason why Amtrak can't do it.


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## Hal

jis said:


> And somehow a mix of pre-assigned seats with passengers' consent and unreserved seats works on the train that I am on which has 16 stops on its route from Edinburgh Waverley to London Euston and there are many runs per day, even more so on weekdays with bigger crowds.
> 
> I am not suggesting that Amtrak in its present state can handle it, evidently not. But to claim it is impossible is plain BS. I just need to provide one counter example and there are many that can be produced.


There are not assigned seats because Amtrak has not wanted to assign seats. Certainly Amtrak could assign seats if they wanted to. They have not wanted to. That does not mean they won't change that in the future.

As far as the diagrams like the airlines I think that is likely beyond the capabilities of Arrow, but that should be a capability of the next reservation system.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PVD

Arrow can assign reserved space to a reservation, it already does it for sleeping cars. Whether or not it should be extended to seats and what issues that might bring about has been the source of some healthy discussion.


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## neroden

BCL said:


> No doubt it's possible from a technical standpoint, but then again it might get interesting if Arrow could handle it.


ARROW has to be replaced anyway. The replacement will undoubtedly be able to handle self-assigned seats with diagrams like the airlines (unless idiots are involved in the design).

The replacement of ARROW is... taking a while and costing a lot of money. They are doing it the right way, biting off the elephant one piece at a time. But any time you're replacing a non-modular system written in assembly language, and you *can't afford to shut the system down* for a month, it's going to be horribly slow and expensive.

ARROW could keep track of assigned seats, but I bet it would risk running up against hardcoded system limitations in the data storage. The sort of thing which new systems don't have.

So IMHO Amtrak isn't going to change seat assignment procedure until the associated modules of ARROW are replaced.


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## neroden

Seaboard92 said:


> In my experience as a private car attendant. One of which was a former LD coach. I think it's better for the TA-C to do the assignments. We get our manifest in the morning and we can best assign our seats that way. Like we had two 8 person groups. Then a two and then two singles. In our dome. And downstairs we had three six groups several fours and almost no singles. And everyone wanted a window seat. But we're able to manage it better


Well, there are situations where I'd raise holy hell about that sort of seat assignment. I often get motion sick if I don't have a window seat, so if you didn't know that and assigned an aisle seat, I might throw up in my neighbor's lap.
I'd rather handle this myself at reservation time without having to mention my motion sickness. Bluntly, self-assignment is better. It's always possible to ask for your needs to be accomodated, but frankly, we shouldn't have to be doing this constantly; it's an actual valuable perk to *not* have to ask.


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## sitzplatz17

Trollopian said:


> If I recall, on German and Austrian trains, a seat reservation (which you purchase separately from your travel reservation) is a "sitzplatz." Pretty easy to translate.


I feel like I should comment on this thread simply due to my username. 

I do agree that it would be nice to be able to select seats ahead of time.

Usually when I get assigned a seat I don't like I'm pretty vocal about asking for a different one.

Of course, The beauty of train travel is that if I'm told "no" there's always the cafe car!


----------



## BCL

neroden said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt it's possible from a technical standpoint, but then again it might get interesting if Arrow could handle it.
> 
> 
> 
> ARROW has to be replaced anyway. The replacement will undoubtedly be able to handle self-assigned seats with diagrams like the airlines (unless idiots are involved in the design).The replacement of ARROW is... taking a while and costing a lot of money. They are doing it the right way, biting off the elephant one piece at a time. But any time you're replacing a non-modular system written in assembly language, and you *can't afford to shut the system down* for a month, it's going to be horribly slow and expensive.ARROW could keep track of assigned seats, but I bet it would risk running up against hardcoded system limitations in the data storage. The sort of thing which new systems don't have.So IMHO Amtrak isn't going to change seat assignment procedure until the associated modules of ARROW are replaced.
Click to expand...

I would have thought it was written in COBOL.


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## xyzzy

Arrow runs on TPF, a specialty OS for IBM mainframes and their descendants. Traditionally TPF apps were written only in 370 assembler. Coders were trying to squeeze every ounce of power from the mainframe, and COBOL would have been a disaster from the perspective of performance. Also, TPF has a unique set of OS interfaces. As far as I know there has never been a COBOL compiler (or a PL/I compiler, etc) that generated object code for TPF, nor is there a shim layer that maps OS/MVS calls into TPF calls in a high-volume context. Now TPF apps can be written in C, and that's what I assume the replacement of Arrow is being written in.


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## PRR 60

Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.

There are several reasons given for the discontinuance. One, passengers who were used to boarding and selecting any available seat did not accept the concept of reserved seats and caused crew issues when they were asked to move. A second was that the electronic interface between Arrow and the Acela trainsets that was supposed to illuminate a sign above the seat identifying that the seat was reserved (including, I believe, the name of the passenger) never worked properly requiring the crew to identify the reserved seats. Take your pick, or maybe a bit of both.

The people who think that seat assignments is no bid deal are often from train endpoints where they can board an empty train and grab whichever seat they want. For us poor slobs at a mid-point station, the situation is much different. If my wife and I want to travel from Philadelphia to New York or Boston, getting seats together can be a matter of luck, or worse would involve a beg-a-thon to try to find a kind stranger to swap seats. Given the cost to ride Amtrak, and especially Acela, that is not acceptable. For New York travel, we drive to NJT Hamilton station and board a nearly empty transit train at a fare that is a small fraction of Amtrak's cost. In exchange for saving a hundred dollars or more, we'll "rough it" for an hour or so. For Boston, we fly - with seat assignments - also at a fare much lower than Acela, and often even lower than Regional.


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## Hal

PRR 60 said:


> Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.


Any seat map would have a directional issue. You could think you are picking a forward facing seat and be facing backward. Europeans don't seem to mind riding backwards but Americans think it will make them sick. As it is the trainset could be turned either way. It is noted in Arrow which way but that is not known for sure until the train is near departure.


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## neroden

xyzzy said:


> Arrow runs on TPF, a specialty OS for IBM mainframes and their descendants. Traditionally TPF apps were written only in 370 assembler. Coders were trying to squeeze every ounce of power from the mainframe, and COBOL would have been a disaster from the perspective of performance. Also, TPF has a unique set of OS interfaces. As far as I know there has never been a COBOL compiler (or a PL/I compiler, etc) that generated object code for TPF, nor is there a shim layer that maps OS/MVS calls into TPF calls in a high-volume context. Now TPF apps can be written in C, and that's what I assume the replacement of Arrow is being written in.


I seem to remember something in the Inspector General's report which indicated that C++ was being used as well as C. Of course you can use C++ anywhere you can use C.


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## PVD

Maybe longterm, something that forces trains to be "made up" predictably, and crews to flip seats if required wouldn't be a bad thing. Obviously, there will be swaps for bad ordered cars, or substitutions for late arriving sets, but that happens in all transportation modes.


----------



## Hal

PVD said:


> Maybe longterm, something that forces trains to be "made up" predictably, and crews to flip seats if required wouldn't be a bad thing. Obviously, there will be swaps for bad ordered cars, or substitutions for late arriving sets, but that happens in all transportation modes.


On both Acela and Regional trains there are seats that can't be turned. More on Acela.


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## R30A

There are very few seats on Amfleets which cannot be turned. 

On the Metroliner cabs, I don't believe ANY can be turned.


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## jis

Hal said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.
> 
> 
> 
> Any seat map would have a directional issue. You could think you are picking a forward facing seat and be facing backward. Europeans don't seem to mind riding backwards but Americans think it will make them sick. As it is the trainset could be turned either way. It is noted in Arrow which way but that is not known for sure until the train is near departure.
Click to expand...

Just the other day at London Euston while making a reservation on a Virgin Pendolino, I asked the nice lady to give me a forward facing window seat that actually has a window next to it and not a blank wall. She pulled out a seat chart and assigned me a seat that met those exact requirements. If she could not find a forward facing seat she would have asked me whether I wanted a forward facing aisle seat or would I rather have a backward facing window seat etc. I can't understand why this should so much more difficult on Amtrak.

Yes, I understand that there would be the Irregular Operations IRROPs) situation, where the assigned seat may not be available or it may be facing the wrong way. But that should be only very occasionally the case since afterall it is IRROPs. OTOH if a railroad claims that all its ops are IRROPs, or a majority are such, and they have no clue what will be on their train facing which way, I start developing a certain level of lack of confidence in the outfit providing that service. May be just me, but that's the way it is.


----------



## CCC1007

jis said:


> Hal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.
> 
> 
> 
> Any seat map would have a directional issue. You could think you are picking a forward facing seat and be facing backward. Europeans don't seem to mind riding backwards but Americans think it will make them sick. As it is the trainset could be turned either way. It is noted in Arrow which way but that is not known for sure until the train is near departure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just the other day at London Euston while making a reservation on a Virgin Pendolino, I asked the nice lady to give me a forward facing window seat that actually has a window next to it and not a blank wall. She pulled out a seat chart and assigned me a seat that met those exact requirements. If she could not find a forward facing seat she would have asked me whether I wanted a forward facing aisle seat or would I rather have a backward facing window seat etc. I can't understand why this should so much more difficult on Amtrak.
> Yes, I understand that there would be the Irregular Operations IRROPs) situation, where the assigned seat may not be available or it may be facing the wrong way. But that should be only very occasionally the case since afterall it is IRROPs. OTOH if a railroad claims that all its ops are IRROPs, or a majority are such, and they have no clue what will be on their train facing which way, I start developing a certain level of lack of confidence in the outfit providing that service. May be just me, but that's the way it is.
Click to expand...

 doesn't virgin have all of their pendilinos set up to stay facing a certain way each time, no need to turn the sets at either end?


----------



## Hal

jis said:


> Just the other day at London Euston while making a reservation on a Virgin Pendolino, I asked the nice lady to give me a forward facing window seat that actually has a window next to it and not a blank wall. She pulled out a seat chart and assigned me a seat that met those exact requirements. If she could not find a forward facing seat she would have asked me whether I wanted a forward facing aisle seat or would I rather have a backward facing window seat etc. I can't understand why this should so much more difficult on Amtrak.
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand that there would be the Irregular Operations IRROPs) situation, where the assigned seat may not be available or it may be facing the wrong way. But that should be only very occasionally the case since afterall it is IRROPs. OTOH if a railroad claims that all its ops are IRROPs, or a majority are such, and they have no clue what will be on their train facing which way, I start developing a certain level of lack of confidence in the outfit providing that service. May be just me, but that's the way it is.


Sorry to inform you of what you should already know but all Amtrak operations on the NEC are irregular. Equipment substitutions, last minute Acela turns, changing which trainset or consist is used, last minute moves from the shop are the norm. That is what happens when the railroad is cashed starved and equipment starved.


----------



## PVD

On the Acela, you have the table foursomes, in those clusters, someone must be 180 degrees off.


----------



## jis

Hal said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the other day at London Euston while making a reservation on a Virgin Pendolino, I asked the nice lady to give me a forward facing window seat that actually has a window next to it and not a blank wall. She pulled out a seat chart and assigned me a seat that met those exact requirements. If she could not find a forward facing seat she would have asked me whether I wanted a forward facing aisle seat or would I rather have a backward facing window seat etc. I can't understand why this should so much more difficult on Amtrak.
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand that there would be the Irregular Operations IRROPs) situation, where the assigned seat may not be available or it may be facing the wrong way. But that should be only very occasionally the case since afterall it is IRROPs. OTOH if a railroad claims that all its ops are IRROPs, or a majority are such, and they have no clue what will be on their train facing which way, I start developing a certain level of lack of confidence in the outfit providing that service. May be just me, but that's the way it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to inform you of what you should already know but all Amtrak operations on the NEC are irregular. Equipment substitutions, last minute Acela turns, changing which trainset or consist is used, last minute moves from the shop are the norm. That is what happens when the railroad is cashed starved and equipment starved.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a problem indeed!


----------



## sitzplatz17

Hal said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.
> 
> 
> 
> Any seat map would have a directional issue. You could think you are picking a forward facing seat and be facing backward. Europeans don't seem to mind riding backwards but Americans think it will make them sick. As it is the trainset could be turned either way. It is noted in Arrow which way but that is not known for sure until the train is near departure.
Click to expand...

I took the heartland flyer very recently and half the seats are facing backwards and the other forwards. Many people grabbed the rearward facing seats and didn't seem to mind. So it is possible in America....


----------



## seat38a

sitzplatz17 said:


> Hal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arrow has the capability to assign seats. When Acela was launched in late 2000, First Class seat assignment were available at booking, including an airline-style seat map of the car showing availability. That was nearly 15 years ago. The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well. Instead, Amtrak went to Plan B and discontinued all seat assignments within a few months of launch.
> 
> 
> 
> Any seat map would have a directional issue. You could think you are picking a forward facing seat and be facing backward. Europeans don't seem to mind riding backwards but Americans think it will make them sick. As it is the trainset could be turned either way. It is noted in Arrow which way but that is not known for sure until the train is near departure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I took the heartland flyer very recently and half the seats are facing backwards and the other forwards. Many people grabbed the rearward facing seats and didn't seem to mind. So it is possible in America....
Click to expand...

This type of arrangement is common on Amtrak's corridor service trains. Seats are not flipped around after each trip and probably is not very cost effective time and labor wise to do so. Generally, half the seats are facing one direction and half the other with the middle with table seating.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Thirdrail7 said:


> Johanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some thoughts from someone who may or may not know what she is talking about:
> 
> Assigning seats at the time of reservation could alleviate a lot of other problems too. In stations like WAS you have people lining up an hour before their departure time so they can be the first to board the train and get the best pick of seats. All the long, sprawling lines detract from the usability of the station. If all those people had their seats assigned in advance, they could spend most of that hour in the food court (or elsewhere in the station, or at home), then stroll onto the train 10-15 minutes before departure and take their seats.
> 
> On the long-distance trains, I appreciate the efforts taken to segregate passengers who will be disembarking at daytime versus nighttime stops. But surely that can be taken into account when you're offered your pick of seats (i.e., you can't choose from any seat on the train - just from those in the car designated for nighttime destinations, so the passengers in the daytime-destination car don't have to listen to you shuffling around to collect your stuff right before your stop).
> 
> If none of this would work for some reason, I wonder if Amtrak could keep separate inventories of window versus aisle seats, and sell them at different prices if necessary? The system is already set up to do that with upper and lower level seats, so it should be possible. That way, people who really want a view out the window don't have to stress out about whether they'll get one, and the people who just want to get where they're going may be able to save a few dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone recalls, they started this service with the Acela and passengers hated it. It also didn't work correctly. Different trains have different loading plans. Some of them are based upon the train size, service requirements, host requirements and station size. Some stations may need certain cars on the platform to accommodate baggage work. There may be a group getting on and they need the seats for late. They may want the person that is getting off first on the aisle because some people sleep like to relax during the day as well.
> 
> What works on one train may not work on another train because operating profiles are completely different.
> 
> To that end, they were supposedly working on some system that will do exactly what Johanna stated. It would show the consist, the car diagram, the seating chart, the direction of the seats etc. It is part of a massive overhaul of the operations system. Some of it has already been completed. It may help but I'm not in favor of charging people for window seats, forward facing seats (etc.)
Click to expand...





Keep your eyes on the website over the next couple of weeks, specifically the NEC.


----------



## daybeers

> Keep your eyes on the website over the next couple of weeks, specifically the NEC.


Oh boy oh boy! What are your thoughts, Thirdrail?



> On the Metroliner cabs, I don't believe ANY can be turned. -R30A


Is this true? Can a Keystone rider confirm this, as all the cab cars are ex-Metroliners. The New Haven–Hartford–Springfield Shuttle usually has one Amfleet I and one cab car, with both cars having half the seats facing forwards and half backwards.


----------



## Thirdrail7

daybeers said:


> Keep your eyes on the website over the next couple of weeks, specifically the NEC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy oh boy! What are your thoughts, Thirdrail?
> 
> I
Click to expand...

We'll have to see if they corrected the various problems they had last time and if they didn't, we'll have to see if the passengers actually care.



daybeers said:


> On the Metroliner cabs, I don't believe ANY can be turned. -R30A
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? Can a Keystone rider confirm this, as all the cab cars are ex-Metroliners. The New Haven–Hartford–Springfield Shuttle usually has one Amfleet I and one cab car, with both cars having half the seats facing forwards and half backwards.
Click to expand...

They can be turned.

At any rate, if anyone wants to play, the first crash test dummies are locked and loaded on the website:

*Acela Express First Class Offers Assigned Seating*

*There's nothing you need to do. Seats on the following trains will be assigned automatically once you continue with this reservation. You'll be able to view and change your assigned seat(s) once your reservation has been made.*

*Acela Express 2190*

*If you don't want an assigned seat, select 'No Thanks' to go back and choose Business Class on this train, or choose a different train.*

The Saturday version will feature assigned first class seating as well. The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...after you've completed your purchase.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Thirdrail7 said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep your eyes on the website over the next couple of weeks, specifically the NEC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy oh boy! What are your thoughts, Thirdrail?I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We'll have to see if they corrected the various problems they had last time and if they didn't, we'll have to see if the passengers actually care.
> 
> 
> 
> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the Metroliner cabs, I don't believe ANY can be turned. -R30A
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this true? Can a Keystone rider confirm this, as all the cab cars are ex-Metroliners. The New HavenHartfordSpringfield Shuttle usually has one Amfleet I and one cab car, with both cars having half the seats facing forwards and half backwards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They can be turned.
> 
> At any rate, if anyone wants to play, the first crash test dummies are locked and loaded on the website:
> 
> *Acela Express First Class Offers Assigned Seating*
> 
> There's nothing you need to do. Seats on the following trains will be assigned automatically once you continue with this reservation. You'll be able to view and change your assigned seat(s) once your reservation has been made.
> 
> Acela Express 2190
> 
> If you don't want an assigned seat, select 'No Thanks' to go back and choose Business Class on this train, or choose a different train.
> 
> The Saturday version will feature assigned first class seating as well. The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...after you've completed your purchase.
Click to expand...

Now that we know the website has the functionality, hopefully this will be expanded to more trains in the future. I don't mind choosing my own seat upon boarding, but find it very annoying when the crew assigns me a seat that has no window.


----------



## Palmetto

I wonder if SeatGuru.com will expand their offerings to rail?


----------



## jis

It will be easier for SeatGuru to handle fixed regular consists like those found on Brightline trains or Amtrak Acelas, than in randomly variable consists like on non-Acela Amtrak trains.


----------



## Thirdrail7

jis said:


> It will be easier for SeatGuru to handle fixed regular consists like those found on Brightline trains or Amtrak Acelas, *than in randomly variable consists like on non-Acela Amtrak trains.*


And *THAT *was a major issue last time....and depending on how it is set up, may be an issue this time. Hopefully not though. They were wise to ramp down the roll out and test on low impact, easily controlled trains such as the Acela first class. Phase II won't hurt any feelings. Phase III will ramp things up a bit and then they'll evaluate what they see and see how and if this can be expanded.

You've got plenty of time before you have to think about picking coach seating on LD trains as an example.

Maybe someone with guest rewards or something will put in their information as a test.


----------



## daybeers

Thirdrail7 said:


> The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...*after you've completed your purchase.*


Wow, that sucks.


----------



## Thirdrail7

daybeers said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...*after you've completed your purchase.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that sucks.
Click to expand...

I was at the point of accepting the charges and the diagram still hadn't appeared. I didn't want to tangle with the refund policy and the charge. I wasn't that curious!






Which makes me wonder....what happens if you don't see the seat you want?


----------



## daybeers

Thirdrail7 said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...*after you've completed your purchase.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that sucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was at the point of accepting the charges and the diagram still hadn't appeared. I didn't want to tangle with the refund policy and the charge. I wasn't that curious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes me wonder....what happens if you don't see the seat you want?
Click to expand...

Right, that's exactly what I was thinking. Wishful thinking that Amtrak will eventually change this on their website.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Thirdrail7 said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The website will allow you to pick your seat from a diagram...*after you've completed your purchase.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that sucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was at the point of accepting the charges and the diagram still hadn't appeared. I didn't want to tangle with the refund policy and the charge. I wasn't that curious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes me wonder....what happens if you don't see the seat you want?
Click to expand...

Sounds like one of the hotels I inquired to about how to book an accessible room. Was told to select a room and then the option would appear - if there were any left. Told them that was not user friendly. I want to see what rooms are available before I select.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## daybeers

If this goes well and they expand to other Acelas in FC, I wonder if they will also do this when one uses an AGR upgrade coupon. I intend to do that from WAS–BOS in June.


----------



## Blackwolf

Will be interesting to see if this gets rolled out for Sleeping Car accommodations ahead of Coach on a LD route.

Maybe a 3-a-week train with reliable consist scheduling that routes down the NEC...


----------



## John Bobinyec

So how's that supposed to work on the train? There you are, having arrived at your seat, and there's already somebody sitting in it. So you go get the conductor to settle the issue. Will the conductor have the seat assignments on their phone?

jb


----------



## SarahZ

John Bobinyec said:


> So how's that supposed to work on the train? There you are, having arrived at your seat, and there's already somebody sitting in it. So you go get the conductor to settle the issue. Will the conductor have the seat assignments on their phone?
> 
> jb


I imagine it would be displayed on your e-ticket, just like the room assignments.


----------



## keelhauled

It will go just like it goes for hundreds of thousands of people a day on airplanes I would think. Thus far I have not experienced anarchy at the boarding gate, and I wouldn't expect any on the platform or train either. Although if y'all want to pay for my ticket I could be convinced to take one for the team and go on a first class joyride to report back first hand.


----------



## Acela150

Folks,

Effective this Saturday the 3rd a pilot program will be put in place to Assign seats in *First Class ONLY* on the following trains only!:

2290 Saturday's only NYP-BOS

2190 M-F NYP-BOS

These two trains will be testing the program to see how this goes. I know the initial rollout of Acela saw this go over like gangbusters.

The pilot program is intended to attempt to reduce the rush to the train and hang ups in NYP.

No word on how long the pilot program will last.

Any questions I'll see if I can get answers.

Steve

MODERATOR NOTE: The thread started by Acela150 regarding the seat assignment pilot on the Acela was merged with the older existing thread regarding seat assignments.


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Folks,
> 
> Effective this Saturday the 3rd a pilot program will be put in place to Assign seats in *First Class ONLY* on the following trains only!:
> 
> 2290 Saturday's only NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190 M-F NYP-BOS
> 
> These two trains will be testing the program to see how this goes. I know the initial rollout of Acela saw this go over like gangbusters.
> 
> The pilot program is intended to attempt to reduce the rush to the train and hang ups in NYP.
> 
> No word on how long the pilot program will last.
> 
> Any questions I'll see if I can get answers.
> 
> Steve


My wonder is if they're going to use the displays above the seats to show if the seat is occupied/who it belongs to. Do those displays even work anymore?
And as an employee, I won't comment on how the pilot will go, but I'm hoping they hold the seats closet to the galley for when the car starts to sell out. We prefer to sit closest to the galley, as most feel it's inappropriate to be seen sitting while on duty

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


----------



## Lonestar648

I hope this pilot works. it would be great to choose seats and rooms. I am sure there will be software glitches, but best to work them out on just one train.


----------



## the_traveler

Without looking at the schedules, are these NYP- BOS trains only?





If not, what happens to those who travel from WAS-NHV or PHL-PVD? Are they kicked out of their seat at NYP?


----------



## Lonestar648

2290 leaves at 8:00 AM NYP to BOS


----------



## the_traveler

However, most flights board only at PHL and everyone deplanes at ATL. Very few flights have everyone board at PHL, some of them get off at BWI, some others board at WAS, some more get on at ALX, etc..., etc..., before getting to ATL!


----------



## Lonestar648

I would think that the computer will need to hold back a certain number of end to end seating to avoid not having the same seat for travel NYP to BOS.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Lonestar648 said:


> I would think that the computer will need to hold back a certain number of end to end seating to avoid not having the same seat for travel NYP to BOS.


That may be why the seats are initially automatically assigned. The number of people who choose to go back and change their seats is likely minimal so will have little impact.


----------



## Palmetto

I believe seats are not automatically assigned. In Thirdrail's test, he mentioned that he could not choose a seat until after payment. On American Airlines, you can see available seats prior to payment, but you pick a specific seat only after paying, IIRC. And there's a disclaimer about not all seats may be available at the time of booking. A delay in ticketing for 24 hours with an option to cancel might help.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Thirdrail7 said:


> *Acela Express First Class Offers Assigned Seating*
> 
> There's nothing you need to do. Seats on the following trains will be assigned automatically once you continue with this reservation. You'll be able to view and change your assigned seat(s) once your reservation has been made.
> 
> Acela Express 2190
> 
> If you don't want an assigned seat, select 'No Thanks' to go back and choose Business Class on this train, or choose a different train.





Palmetto said:


> I believe seats are not automatically assigned. In Thirdrail's test, he mentioned that he could not choose a seat until after payment. On American Airlines, you can see available seats prior to payment, but you pick a specific seat only after paying, IIRC. And there's a disclaimer about not all seats may be available at the time of booking. A delay in ticketing for 24 hours with an option to cancel might help.


Per TR7's post, the seats will be assigned then, once you pay, you can change the seat assignment.


----------



## PRR 60

Palmetto said:


> I believe seats are not automatically assigned. In Thirdrail's test, he mentioned that he could not choose a seat until after payment. On American Airlines, you can see available seats prior to payment, but you pick a specific seat only after paying, IIRC. And there's a disclaimer about not all seats may be available at the time of booking. A delay in ticketing for 24 hours with an option to cancel might help.


With AA and other domestic legacies, you pick seats prior to purchase. If you skip seat assignment, seats are not assigned until check in. With this Amtrak trial run, the system assigns seats, but you have the opportunity to view a seat map and make changes after the fact.

Acela F is fully refundable up to scheduled departure. If for some reason someone does not like their assigned seat and does not see any acceptable seats available, they can try another train or cancel with no risk.


----------



## Acela150

Lonestar648 said:


> I hope this pilot works. it would be great to choose seats and rooms. I am sure there will be software glitches, but best to work them out on just one train.


You won’t be able to choose. The computer will choose for you currently but you will be able to pick a seat.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## jis

I wonder if the introduction of reserved assigned seats by Brightline hastened this move by Amtrak after all these years, or it is just a mere coincidence, with the triggering event being Anderson..


----------



## Lonestar648

The time it takes to write a program as complex as Amtrak's seating will be, has to be many months and a lot of trail and error before ever getting to an initial pilot. I suspect this has been in the works for a while. I suspect additional hardware had to be part of the plan as well to support the additional memory and interactive processing.


----------



## jis

Lonestar648 said:


> The time it takes to write a program as complex as Amtrak's seating will be, has to be many months and a lot of trail and error before ever getting to an initial pilot. I suspect this has been in the works for a while. I suspect additional hardware had to be part of the plan as well to support the additional memory and interactive processing.


Actually I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do this sort of stuff since I have been peripherally involved in similar projects, most closely with the system used by United Airlines (SHARES). Also have followed the work of the folks who did the system used by Indian Railways, which by the way has assigned accommodation for all reserved accommodation, which if anything is way more complex and massive compared to anything that Amtrak could conceivably dream of, in terms of number of stations served, number of trains operated, number of seats/berths per train and number of passengers carried in reserved accommodation. It really is not as spectacularly difficult as is made out by folks here, and is not really rocket science either.

The Amtrak system actually had the capability and has presumably had it in the back end since the time Acelas were introduced, which was used for a brief period when Acela service was introduced. Did they actually take the trouble to remove the capability, rather than simply disabling it? I wonder why they'd do that.


----------



## sitzplatz17

I really hope this works out not only for the Acela, but gets expanded to the system as a whole.

A couple days ago I had to make a number of ticket bookings for train travel through Germany and was pleasantly surprised that I could now select not only which seat I wanted to sit in, but even which coach.

Which is nice, because I was actually able to select "seat 17" in the first coach on one of the InterCity Express trains (my screen name and favorite seat on any train).



jis said:


> Actually I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do this sort of stuff since I have been peripherally involved in similar projects, most closely with the system used by United Airlines (SHARES). Also have followed the work of the folks who did the system used by Indian Railways, which by the way has assigned accommodation for all reserved accommodation, which if anything is way more complex and massive compared to anything that Amtrak could conceivably dream of, in terms of number of stations served, number of trains operated, number of seats/berths per train and number of passengers carried in reserved accommodation. It really is not as spectacularly difficult as is made out by folks here, and is not really rocket science either.


I agree with jis that if a country like Germany or India with much more complex routes and diverse rolling stock can figure it out, then it shouldn't be all that hard for Amtrak to do.

Perhaps a good way to go about funding this would be to do as the Deutsche Bahn (German railways) does, where you have to pay 4.50EUR (about $5.75) to reserve a seat?


----------



## Seaboard92

sitzplatz17 said:


> I really hope this works out not only for the Acela, but gets expanded to the system as a whole.
> 
> A couple days ago I had to make a number of ticket bookings for train travel through Germany and was pleasantly surprised that I could now select not only which seat I wanted to sit in, but even which coach.
> 
> Which is nice, because I was actually able to select "seat 17" in the first coach on one of the InterCity Express trains (my screen name and favorite seat on any train).
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do this sort of stuff since I have been peripherally involved in similar projects, most closely with the system used by United Airlines (SHARES). Also have followed the work of the folks who did the system used by Indian Railways, which by the way has assigned accommodation for all reserved accommodation, which if anything is way more complex and massive compared to anything that Amtrak could conceivably dream of, in terms of number of stations served, number of trains operated, number of seats/berths per train and number of passengers carried in reserved accommodation. It really is not as spectacularly difficult as is made out by folks here, and is not really rocket science either.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with jis that if a country like Germany or India with much more complex routes and diverse rolling stock can figure it out, then it shouldn't be all that hard for Amtrak to do.
> 
> Perhaps a good way to go about funding this would be to do as the Deutsche Bahn (German railways) does, where you have to pay 4.50EUR (about $5.75) to reserve a seat?
Click to expand...

One reason DBAG can offer that reservation charge is because the ICE and IC trains are not reservation compulsory trains such as everything Amtrak runs minus a few corridors.

I'm interested if maybe the cascades will be one of the next tests. It is a fixed consist.


----------



## Lonestar648

With all the stops Amtrak makes, the Program/Project Managers with Amtrak must determine all the what if scenarios, what to allow, what to prohibit totally, and what requires an override. What is the decision making process the computer must run before displaying available seats/rooms. Also, are they going to show seats/rooms available to choose for an upgrade fee like the airlines. If Europe has a great system, why can't Amtrak obtain all or part of it to cut some of the problem solving time.


----------



## PVD

The problem with basing things on systems that work in foreign countries is that American rules, culture and acceptances/expectations are different. It is a viable starting point, but not a complete answer for anything.


----------



## Lonestar648

Maybe Amtrak will show some seats unavailable like the airlines do except for special assignment or a couple weeks out. Amtrak might block some seats out except for end to end purchases, then release them closer to departure. The airlines do it without any issues.


----------



## seat38a

Makes sense. The LOSSAN business plan mentioned the ability to pick and choose your seat in Business Class for the Pacific Surfliner for couple of years now. Not sure if LOSSAN forced Amtrak's hand or if Amtrak decided to implement and LOSSAN is following along.


----------



## wwchi

Business class should certainly be able to offer this as it's only 1 car and not dependent on where your destination is. I agree it would keep people from lining up early, and if you are someone like me who is a regular rider and books early, I'd like to be able to just pick my seat and then show up just in time to board.


----------



## Thirdrail7

seat38a said:


> Makes sense. The LOSSAN business plan mentioned the ability to pick and choose your seat in Business Class for the Pacific Surfliner for couple of years now. Not sure if LOSSAN forced Amtrak's hand or if Amtrak decided to implement and LOSSAN is following along.






jis said:


> I wonder if the introduction of reserved assigned seats by Brightline hastened this move by Amtrak after all these years, or it is just a mere coincidence, with the triggering event being Anderson..


If you scroll back, you'll see that this has been in the works for quite some time. It has nothing to do with Brightline, it has nothing to do with Lossan. It is being slightly expedited and possibly expanded under the new CEO.

There are a lot of little things to analyze and it will take time. Who knows if it will even go the distance?


----------



## PVD

A NER with 300+ passengers getting on and off with only a Conductor and A/C seating issues would be difficult to handle if passengers don't cooperate. Perhaps BC only on that type of route? A 300 seat aircraft would have minimum 6 attendants (1 per 50 seats even if empty)


----------



## Blackwolf

PVD said:


> A NER with 300+ passengers getting on and off with only a Conductor and A/C seating issues would be difficult to handle if passengers don't cooperate. Perhaps BC only on that type of route? A 300 seat aircraft would have minimum 6 attendants (1 per 50 seats even if empty)


Fair use quote from RPA:



> Amtrak also said that the seat assignments process is part of a larger rollout that will include adding seat assignments to First class on additional Acela Express trains, then later adding it to Business class on select Northeast Regional and long-distance trains.


It sounds like they're doing exactly that. Acela First, Business on select Regionals and Long Distance trains.

Acela Business and system-wide Coach is still left to their own seat-finding once aboard.


----------



## Lonestar648

I wonder if they plan to include the Sleepers?


----------



## mfastx

God I hope they eventually extend this to business class and coach on the Regionals. I'd love to be able to show up at the station 10 min before departure and not worry about getting a good seat. Now I show up 30 min early just so I be towards the front of the line smh.


----------



## PVD

BC would probably be doable, maybe even "quiet car" where you would click an acknowledgement of the rules, coaches would be tough, but no reason not to hope.....


----------



## wwchi

Sounds like only NE Regionals for now - I take BC regularly but out of Chicago on the Michigan trains. And agree would be nice to show up 10 minutes earlier and just go to my seat!


----------



## jis

Lonestar648 said:


> I wonder if they plan to include the Sleepers?


Sleepers already have assigned accommodation. 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## Ryan

But you can’t change your room online if you don’t like what is assigned.


----------



## jis

I think there are two separable things that we tend to conflate together in our discussions and thus confuse ourselves:

1. Reserved assigned accommodation. This has existed before there was any online anything. Amtrak does have this in Sleeper and generally does not have it anywhere else.

2. Online selection of accommodation by customers. Some railroads have this in addition to assigned accommodations. Most that have assigned accommodation don’t provide this facility. Most allow reassignment or specific assignment request through a conversation with an agent, though some major ones don’t.

Amtrak is trying to do both at the same time which of course doubles the risk of hitting snags. We’ll see how it goes. Brightline has managed to do both together spectacularly well.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## PaulM

> The problem with basing things on systems that work in foreign countries is that American rules, culture and acceptances/expectations are different.


I thought what could be un-American about a system that lets you not select a seat, or select one for a very nominal charge. That is until



> A NER with 300+ passengers getting on and off with only a Conductor and A/C seating issues would be difficult to handle if passengers don't cooperate.


reminded me that any red blooded American would think it an assault on his manhood not to try to beat the system.


----------



## Thirdrail7

jis said:


> I think there are two separable things that we tend to conflate together in our discussions and thus confuse ourselves:
> 
> 1. Reserved assigned accommodation. This has existed before there was any online anything. Amtrak does have this in Sleeper and generally does not have it anywhere else.
> 
> 2. Online selection of accommodation by customers. Some railroads have this in addition to assigned accommodations. Most that have assigned accommodation don’t provide this facility. Most allow reassignment or specific assignment request through a conversation with an agent, though some major ones don’t.
> 
> Amtrak is trying to do both at the same time which of course doubles the risk of hitting snags. We’ll see how it goes. Brightline has managed to do both together spectacularly well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


Once phase III of the pilot is completed, perhaps Amtrak will pick one way...or the other. Additionally, at this point, Brightline currently functions much like an airline. If I am not mistaken, it currently operates between FTL and WPB. It's pretty easy to control thing when everyone boards at one stop and disembarks at the next stop. It is quite another thing to do this with a train that makes 40 stops over the course of 3 days.

That is why it was wise of them to back off their initial plan and test this on business class and Acela first class first...although that eliminates one of the problems coach passengers may have.


----------



## Dank

Ok, I know there is no assigned seating in coach, but I'm a very huge opponent of assigned seating. A few years back my wife and I were traveling on the NER from Philadelphia to BWI. We showed up to 30th St. Station over an hour early and there were already over 100 people waiting to go down trackside. When we boarded the train we had to go all the way to the back of the last car to find two seats together. How hard would it be to assign seats so something like this does not happen to people traveling together. At one point, I thought we were going to have stand all the way back to BWI.


----------



## SarahZ

Dank said:


> Ok, I know there is no assigned seating in coach, but I'm a very huge *opponent* of assigned seating. A few years back my wife and I were traveling on the NER from Philadelphia to BWI. We showed up to 30th St. Station over an hour early and there were already over 100 people waiting to go down trackside. When we boarded the train we had to go all the way to the back of the last car to find two seats together. How hard would it be to assign seats so something like this does not happen to people traveling together. At one point, I thought we were going to have stand all the way back to BWI.


Did you mean proponent? It sounds like you're for assigned seating, not against.


----------



## Bex

If they end up doing it for NER coach, what happens to people with 10-rides or monthlies?


----------



## jis

Bex said:


> If they end up doing it for NER coach, what happens to people with 10-rides or monthlies?


They get to ride in the Cafe Car if the train is sold out. They technically do not have first dibs on seats anyway.


----------



## Palmetto

SarahZ said:


> Dank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I know there is no assigned seating in coach, but I'm a very huge *opponent* of assigned seating. A few years back my wife and I were traveling on the NER from Philadelphia to BWI. We showed up to 30th St. Station over an hour early and there were already over 100 people waiting to go down trackside. When we boarded the train we had to go all the way to the back of the last car to find two seats together. How hard would it be to assign seats so something like this does not happen to people traveling together. At one point, I thought we were going to have stand all the way back to BWI.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you mean proponent? It sounds like you're for assigned seating, not against.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that's what he meant.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Dank said:


> Ok, I know there is no assigned seating in coach, but I'm a very huge opponent of assigned seating. A few years back my wife and I were traveling on the NER from Philadelphia to BWI. We showed up to 30th St. Station over an hour early and there were already over 100 people waiting to go down trackside. When we boarded the train we had to go all the way to the back of the last car to find two seats together. How hard would it be to assign seats so something like this does not happen to people traveling together. At one point, I thought we were going to have stand all the way back to BWI.



Even with passenger selected seating, you may have that problem...particularly if you're one of the last to book your reservation. That is why this is not a slam dunk with coach,


----------



## daybeers

Thirdrail7 said:


> Dank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I know there is no assigned seating in coach, but I'm a very huge opponent of assigned seating. A few years back my wife and I were traveling on the NER from Philadelphia to BWI. We showed up to 30th St. Station over an hour early and there were already over 100 people waiting to go down trackside. When we boarded the train we had to go all the way to the back of the last car to find two seats together. How hard would it be to assign seats so something like this does not happen to people traveling together. At one point, I thought we were going to have stand all the way back to BWI.
> 
> 
> 
> Even with passenger selected seating, you may have that problem...particularly if you're one of the last to book your reservation. That is why this is not a slam dunk with coach.
Click to expand...

You mean trying to get two seats together? Isn't that a problem on every assigned seating system if one books last minute?


----------



## Bex

jis said:


> Bex said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they end up doing it for NER coach, what happens to people with 10-rides or monthlies?
> 
> 
> 
> They get to ride in the Cafe Car if the train is sold out. They technically do not have first dibs on seats anyway.
Click to expand...

I've never been asked to do that, although I'm always conscious that it's a possibility. If this happened it would definitely push me more towards buying tickets for specific trains, though. And I'd be delighted to only have people in the quiet car who meant to be there!


----------



## AmtrakLKL

The next phase of assigned seats in Acela First Class is coming. Reservations with seat assignments have already begun for service beginning on the following dates and trains:

WAS - NYP

Apr 28 - 2208

Apr 29 - 2228

Apr 30 - 2128

NYP-WAS

May 19 - 2203

May 20 - 2205

May 21 - 2103


----------



## Lonestar648

Any feedback about issues Amtrak is encountering? With any project as complex as this, I am sure they are resolving a long list of "pop up" issues.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Lonestar648 said:


> Any feedback about issues Amtrak is encountering? With any project as complex as this, I am sure they are resolving a long list of "pop up" issues.


The usual issues that were encountered the last time this was tried. However, more people are accepting. Hell, even movie theaters have seat selection. Besides, the Acela's aren't the real test. When it hits phase III in a few months, we'll see what we're up against.


----------



## keelhauled

keelhauled said:


> Although if y'all want to pay for my ticket I could be convinced to take one for the team and go on a first class joyride to report back first hand.


My offer still stands. Just saying...


----------



## Tennessee Traveler

I just made a reservation for Acela 2155 First Class NYP to WAS and was not offered the opportunity to select a seat nor was there an assigned seat on my e-ticket. So is the test still going only for the NYP to BOS one or two Acela First Class. The AGR agent who made my reservation allowed me to choose my roomette number on the connecting Capitol Limited WAS to CHI.


----------



## PVD

about 4 posts back is a list of trains added to the pilot. 2155 is not one of them.....


----------



## mfastx

Since trains are not quite like airplanes and have many intermediate stops where a few people get on and off at each stop, seat assignments should be tweaked to allow for that.

One idea would be give people the opportunity to pay extra to select a seat before hand (similar to how it's done in Europe). If you don't pay extra, the system automatically assigns an optimal seat based on your origin/destination to maximize capacity.


----------



## Lonestar648

There are quite a few what ifs that have to be programmed into the logic code. Blocking a certain number seats for end to end travel, focus seat selection for mid-route boarding and departure so seats can be filled as much as possible. How will seat changing by the passengers without the Conductor be handled? Special Needs customers seating. I am sure the Project Manager for this has had many brain stoirming sessions with various departments to determine as many scenarios as possible. Only multiple levels of live testing will reveal the issues no one has thought of. I have been through many new software products coming to the field, (in house field testing, Alpha field test, Beta field test, and First out delivery testing). It appears Amtrak is still running Beta tests. Next I would expect all Acelas, then another train, maybe limited testing with sleepers.


----------



## zephyr17

Sleepers are already assigned at reservation time and always have been.


----------



## PVD

There is a marketing "challenge" The people who (generally) pay the highest fares have the least to choose from in a strictly "choose at time of ticketing/reservation" system. Also, accommodations for couples, parents with children and special needs will need to be dealt with. It is not as simple as many make it out as.


----------



## Lonestar648

The Passenger does not get to choose their sleeper room on line. Yes, the system assigns one, but you have no choices.


----------



## daybeers

What I don't get is why you can't see what seats are available or choose one before you commit to paying! As of now, you can only choose a seat after the reservation has been paid and confirmed.


----------



## Lonestar648

Remember this Application is in the testing phase. Though some airlines will display a non active screen of the available seats, they caution that between viewing this screen and purchasing your ticket and then selecting your seats, the availability can change.

Right now I am sure they want to limit the number of accesses to only those people who have purchased a ticket on a qualified train, this way when or if there are database issues, this keeps the number of attempts on the database limited.

Once the coding is determined to be correct, having access to available seats on a view only query, is not complicated to set up.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

This is not an unheard of concept... red coach in florida (a regional bus line) offers passenger selected, reserved seating. They have passengers getting on and off en route. And they have 2 different types of busses... A 1st class bus with 2x1 seating, and a more traditional 2x2 seating. They seem to have been able to make it work.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Mega Bus has the same feature, but you pay extra to pick "Premium" Seats, sort of like the Airlines and something Amtrak should offer PDQ!!!


----------



## Thirdrail7

I'm not a Mega Bus rider but does it typically make 25+ stops on a single journey? Along a route with a high number of stops, a few well placed intermediate stop to intermediate stop selections can seriously curtail through ridership to selected points.

That was one of the problems with passenger selected seat assignments last time and something they've noticed this time. You have to make sure you do this in a way that does not impact through ridership and revenue and doesn't require anyone to move at some point during the trip. Currently, the reservations system controls this function automatically. If it see a room being reserved for a portion of the trip, when it see another reservation for another portion of the trip, it will assign the same room to leave as much through space as possible. The same goes for coach seating. It calculates the space based upon maximums along the route between each pair. Without assigned seating, it calculates the "pure space." With assigned seating, you can only hope that intermediate trips come later or you can sell space to that intermediate pair...unless you only set aside certain seats for certain pairs. If that is the case, I don't really consider that "genuine seat selection." You are merely letting the passengers select from a pool of seats that has been offered to them.

That is why I'm betting all eyes are on 2103.


----------



## PaulM

daybeers said:


> What I don't get is why you can't see what seats are available or choose one before you commit to paying! As of now, you can only choose a seat after the reservation has been paid and confirmed.


I'm guessing that it is to prevent the following scenario: passenger X books room A CHI-DEN and passenger Y books room B DEN-EMY. Now two rooms are not available for CHI-EMY, or Fort Morgan to Fraser for that matter.

The computer would assign room A to passenger Y, making room B available.


----------



## Lonestar648

I would expect Amtrak is trying to measure revenue and overall trip capacity comparing this to non online seat assignment measurements. It doesn't make good business sense to loose money by having a seat selection application for customers. Also, Conductors have tried to group passengers on LD trains by city or over night stops.so it is easier to make sure people get off at the right stop. Does the system ignore this or limit selection to a certain car on say a three Coach LD train.


----------



## AcrossTheOcean

sitzplatz17 said:


> I really hope this works out not only for the Acela, but gets expanded to the system as a whole.
> 
> A couple days ago I had to make a number of ticket bookings for train travel through Germany and was pleasantly surprised that I could now select not only which seat I wanted to sit in, but even which coach.
> 
> Which is nice, because I was actually able to select "seat 17" in the first coach on one of the InterCity Express trains (my screen name and favorite seat on any train).
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do this sort of stuff since I have been peripherally involved in similar projects, most closely with the system used by United Airlines (SHARES). Also have followed the work of the folks who did the system used by Indian Railways, which by the way has assigned accommodation for all reserved accommodation, which if anything is way more complex and massive compared to anything that Amtrak could conceivably dream of, in terms of number of stations served, number of trains operated, number of seats/berths per train and number of passengers carried in reserved accommodation. It really is not as spectacularly difficult as is made out by folks here, and is not really rocket science either.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with jis that if a country like Germany or India with much more complex routes and diverse rolling stock can figure it out, then it shouldn't be all that hard for Amtrak to do.
> 
> Perhaps a good way to go about funding this would be to do as the Deutsche Bahn (German railways) does, where you have to pay 4.50EUR (about $5.75) to reserve a seat?
Click to expand...

When did the opportunity to pick your actual seat(s) on the ICE (not just to guarantee a certain type of seats) start? Any idea if that is just first class, or does it apply to second class, too? It has been several years since I rode an ICE far enough to make reserved seating worthwhile.


----------



## Lonestar648

The initial test was just first class on just a few specific trains, not all. Again this is a test to work out the bugs in the software, so do not expect perfection.


----------



## Acela150

Any updates on how the pilot program is going with the few selected trains?


----------



## Acela150

I just did a test booking for 2160 in Mid-October from PHL-RTE for a personal trip and Seats are being assigned in FC for that train. I'll play around with other trains shortly.


----------



## Acela150

After playing around. It seems like 2160 is the only train being added for now.


----------



## cocojacoby

Thirdrail7 said:


> I'm not a Mega Bus rider but does it typically make 25+ stops on a single journey?


My wife and I took it a few years ago from Boston to New York. Non stop and $1 each! Yes $2 total for both of us.


----------



## cpotisch

cocojacoby said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a Mega Bus rider but does it typically make 25+ stops on a single journey?
> 
> 
> 
> My wife and I took it a few years ago from Boston to New York. Non stop and $1 each! Yes $2 total for both of us.
Click to expand...

So if Amtrak gets rid off all their services and amenities, will they still be 60 times as good as Megabus, as their pricing indicates?


----------



## jebr

cpotisch said:


> So if Amtrak gets rid off all their services and amenities, will they still be 60 times as good as Megabus, as their pricing indicates?


Megabus typically only sells a couple seats at the bargain basement $1 fare. (There's also a $2.50/purchase fee for ticketing, at least when buying online.) Megabus' typical fares for that route seem to be $5-$20, with each Friday and Sunday often going quickly to $20 once one or two $1 tickets are sold. Last minute tickets and popular times/days can also get higher than $20.

On the Northeast Corridor, I'm not aware of anything Amtrak has outright cut, and they've recently improved cafe car offerings and refurbished the interiors of the trains. Megabus has a lot tighter and narrower seating, no food offerings at all, wifi that seems to work less well than even Amtrak's offering, and power outlets that usually work. I'd also much rather use an Amtrak bathroom than a Megabus bathroom.

There's certainly some instances where I'd take Megabus, but if money allows I'd certainly take Amtrak over Megabus in the NEC.


----------



## MARC Rider

jebr said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if Amtrak gets rid off all their services and amenities, will they still be 60 times as good as Megabus, as their pricing indicates?
> 
> 
> 
> Megabus typically only sells a couple seats at the bargain basement $1 fare. (There's also a $2.50/purchase fee for ticketing, at least when buying online.) Megabus' typical fares for that route seem to be $5-$20, with each Friday and Sunday often going quickly to $20 once one or two $1 tickets are sold. Last minute tickets and popular times/days can also get higher than $20.
> 
> On the Northeast Corridor, I'm not aware of anything Amtrak has outright cut, and they've recently improved cafe car offerings and refurbished the interiors of the trains. Megabus has a lot tighter and narrower seating, no food offerings at all, wifi that seems to work less well than even Amtrak's offering, and power outlets that usually work. I'd also much rather use an Amtrak bathroom than a Megabus bathroom.
> 
> There's certainly some instances where I'd take Megabus, but if money allows I'd certainly take Amtrak over Megabus in the NEC.
Click to expand...

If you ride Megabus, or any other bus between Washington and New York, you will be riding, or possibly sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the New Jersey Turnpike and Lincoln Tunnel. While that would be better than driving the same route, I'd rather be on the train, even with trackwork delays.

Also, Baltimore to New York is a 4 hour drive, I don't care what Google maps says, whereas even the current trackwork-slowed NER time is 2:45. NEC service is a quantum leap over competing bus service, and the prices reflect that.


----------



## sitzplatz17

AcrossTheOcean said:


> sitzplatz17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope this works out not only for the Acela, but gets expanded to the system as a whole.
> 
> A couple days ago I had to make a number of ticket bookings for train travel through Germany and was pleasantly surprised that I could now select not only which seat I wanted to sit in, but even which coach.
> 
> Which is nice, because I was actually able to select "seat 17" in the first coach on one of the InterCity Express trains (my screen name and favorite seat on any train).
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do this sort of stuff since I have been peripherally involved in similar projects, most closely with the system used by United Airlines (SHARES). Also have followed the work of the folks who did the system used by Indian Railways, which by the way has assigned accommodation for all reserved accommodation, which if anything is way more complex and massive compared to anything that Amtrak could conceivably dream of, in terms of number of stations served, number of trains operated, number of seats/berths per train and number of passengers carried in reserved accommodation. It really is not as spectacularly difficult as is made out by folks here, and is not really rocket science either.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with jis that if a country like Germany or India with much more complex routes and diverse rolling stock can figure it out, then it shouldn't be all that hard for Amtrak to do.
> 
> Perhaps a good way to go about funding this would be to do as the Deutsche Bahn (German railways) does, where you have to pay 4.50EUR (about $5.75) to reserve a seat?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did the opportunity to pick your actual seat(s) on the ICE (not just to guarantee a certain type of seats) start? Any idea if that is just first class, or does it apply to second class, too? It has been several years since I rode an ICE far enough to make reserved seating worthwhile.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure when it showed up exactly, but I'd say it's been around for over a year at this point. It seems to be available for both 1st and 2nd class. The only key difference being that you have to pay for the seat reservation in 2nd class.


----------



## Jersey Jeff

I didn't book Megabus, but I recently traveled Peter Pan Bus from Providence to NYC because I needed a last minute ride and Amtrak was charging $100+. Bus fare was $35. Seating was cramped, no wifi and my power outlet didn't work. Took 6 hours to travel 200 miles because of typical lousy I-95 Sunday traffic.


----------



## cpotisch

I'm currently on Peter Pan from Port Authority Bus Terminal to Boston South Station. The bus is actually owned and operated by "Villani", but they're doing business as Peter Pan. I'm telling you, this is the worst bus I've ever been on. There's no WiFi (which was promised), no 120V outlets (which were promised), and not only are the seats tiny with no legroom or arm room, there also also idiotically bent backward in the middle, which is murdering my spine. We didn't take Amtrak because it was four times the price, but in retrospect I think there's no doubt it would have been worth it.


----------



## Acela150

I only ride on a tour bus once a year. That's on a private charter to Penn State University. Those buses are great. When I was forced to a bus 2 years ago when I was on the Cap from CHI to DC the bus was terrible.


----------



## railiner

cpotisch said:


> I'm currently on Peter Pan from Port Authority Bus Terminal to Boston South Station. The bus is actually owned and operated by "Villani", but they're doing business as Peter Pan. I'm telling you, this is the worst bus I've ever been on. There's no WiFi (which was promised), no 120V outlets (which were promised), and not only are the seats tiny with no legroom or arm room, there also also idiotically bent backward in the middle, which is murdering my spine. We didn't take Amtrak because it was four times the price, but in retrospect I think there's no doubt it would have been worth it.


Sounds like you are on a "rental" bus....a bus that Peter Pan chartered to supplement their own fleet for the busy holiday weekend. A common practice in the industry. Usually, they try to choose rental's that are up to their own standard's or better, but doesn't always work out that way....sorry for your experience...


----------



## KnightRail

Acela150 said:


> After playing around. It seems like 2160 is the only train being added for now.


This month, four additional Acelas are being activated each week.

For the time period you were looking, you should now also see 2150.


----------



## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After playing around. It seems like 2160 is the only train being added for now.
> 
> 
> 
> This month, four additional Acelas are being activated each week.
> 
> For the time period you were looking, you should now also see 2150.
Click to expand...

Thanks. What other trains were added??


----------



## KnightRail

Acela150 said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After playing around. It seems like 2160 is the only train being added for now.
> 
> 
> 
> This month, four additional Acelas are being activated each week.For the time period you were looking, you should now also see 2150.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. What other trains were added??
Click to expand...

Todays other three activations were WAS-NYP trips, one weekday and two weekend. Four additional a week from today, and so on for the next three weeks at least. None of those additional twelve are a WAS-BOS weekday trip though.


----------



## Acela150

Thanks for the info.


----------



## cpotisch

railiner said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm currently on Peter Pan from Port Authority Bus Terminal to Boston South Station. The bus is actually owned and operated by "Villani", but they're doing business as Peter Pan. I'm telling you, this is the worst bus I've ever been on. There's no WiFi (which was promised), no 120V outlets (which were promised), and not only are the seats tiny with no legroom or arm room, there also also idiotically bent backward in the middle, which is murdering my spine. We didn't take Amtrak because it was four times the price, but in retrospect I think there's no doubt it would have been worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are on a "rental" bus....a bus that Peter Pan chartered to supplement their own fleet for the busy holiday weekend. A common practice in the industry. Usually, they try to choose rental's that are up to their own standard's or better, but doesn't always work out that way....sorry for your experience...
Click to expand...

Yeah, it became pretty clear once we boarded that the bus was chartered from and operated by a different company. Fortunately it didn't end up being too bad. I took a blanket and crammed it in the weird seat cavity, so while it certainly wasn't ideal, it wasn't total misery.


----------



## Acela150

Post Updated on 11/7/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.

Link to a seating chart on Amtrak.com thanks to Bratkinson.

https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/onboard-accommodations-for-all-your-needs/seating-accommodations/first-class.html

As of 10/19/18 All weekday Northbound trains have assigned seating.

As of 11/7/18 the roll out is complete effective 11/12/18 

I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.

WAS-NYP

2100

2103

2104

2107 

2109 

2110

2117

2119 

2121 

2122

2124

2126

2128

2203

2205

2208

2213

2215

2220

2222

2224

2228

WAS-BOS

2150

*2151 NEW*

*2153 NEW*

2154

*2155 NEW*

2158

*2159 NEW*

2160

2163

2164

2165

2166

2167

2168

2170

2171

2172

*2173 NEW*

*2175 NEW*

2248

2249

2250
2251

2252

2253

2254

2255

2256

*2257 NEW*

2258

2259

2260

2261

2275

NYP-BOS

2190

2290

I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


----------



## Acela150

Giving this a bump for those who are interested.


----------



## MARC Rider

Acela150 said:


> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)


----------



## cocojacoby

So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.

Update: I guess you have to log in first.


----------



## looshi

You have to book first and then you can modify it afterwards. Unless something has changed.


----------



## Acela150

MARC Rider said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.
> 
> 
> 
> When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)
Click to expand...

It’s effective as soon as it was put into ARROW. If you’re riding in First Class call Amtrak to get an assigned seat.



cocojacoby said:


> So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Update: I guess you have to have to log in first.


Once you’ve purchased your tickets then you can choose a seat. That’s how it’s been explained.


----------



## cpotisch

Acela150 said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.
> 
> 
> 
> When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s effective as soon as it was put into ARROW. If you’re riding in First Class call Amtrak to get an assigned seat.
> 
> 
> 
> cocojacoby said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Update: I guess you have to have to log in first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once you’ve purchased your tickets then you can choose a seat. That’s how it’s been explained.
Click to expand...

If you have to choose your seats after you've booked then how do you know which trains offer this? Are the specific trains with seat assignments listed somewhere else?


----------



## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.
> 
> 
> 
> When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s effective as soon as it was put into ARROW. If you’re riding in First Class call Amtrak to get an assigned seat.
> 
> 
> cocojacoby said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Update: I guess you have to have to log in first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once you’ve purchased your tickets then you can choose a seat. That’s how it’s been explained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you have to choose your seats after you've booked then how do you know which trains offer this? Are the specific trains with seat assignments listed somewhere else?
Click to expand...

I just want to clear on your question. Are you asking if the seat assignment program is in effect AFTER you booked and how to know which trains are in the program?


----------



## cpotisch

Acela150 said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.
> 
> 
> 
> When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s effective as soon as it was put into ARROW. If you’re riding in First Class call Amtrak to get an assigned seat.
> 
> 
> cocojacoby said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Update: I guess you have to have to log in first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once you’ve purchased your tickets then you can choose a seat. That’s how it’s been explained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you have to choose your seats after you've booked then how do you know which trains offer this? Are the specific trains with seat assignments listed somewhere else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just want to clear on your question. Are you asking if the seat assignment program is in effect AFTER you booked and how to know which trains are in the program?
Click to expand...

Yep.


----------



## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Updated on 9/26/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2122 NEW*
> 
> *2124 NEW*
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> *2215 NEW*
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> *2256 NEW*
> 
> *2258 NEW*
> 
> *2259 NEW*
> 
> 2260
> 
> *2261 NEW*
> 
> *2275 NEW*
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.
> 
> 
> 
> When is this effective? I'm taking 2124 tomorrow. (9/27)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s effective as soon as it was put into ARROW. If you’re riding in First Class call Amtrak to get an assigned seat.
> 
> 
> cocojacoby said:
> 
> 
> 
> So does Amtrak supply a diagram so you can see where the seats are located? I tried to book 2190 just to see how you do it and couldn't find anything.
> 
> Update: I guess you have to have to log in first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once you’ve purchased your tickets then you can choose a seat. That’s how it’s been explained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you have to choose your seats after you've booked then how do you know which trains offer this? Are the specific trains with seat assignments listed somewhere else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just want to clear on your question. Are you asking if the seat assignment program is in effect AFTER you booked and how to know which trains are in the program?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep.
Click to expand...

The only way outside of this post to know if your train has assigned seating is to do a test booking or call Amtrak. Outside of that no one knows. And I’ve heard some stories of people who have assigned seats and people are already sitting in them and give them a hard time for taking “their seat”.


----------



## Anderson

Well, and if someone booked a seat before a given train got assigned seats and Amtrak isn't cluing them in about it, I can totally see that being a problem. Then again, IIRC this happened the first time they tried this...


----------



## MARC Rider

Anderson said:


> Well, and if someone booked a seat before a given train got assigned seats and Amtrak isn't cluing them in about it, I can totally see that being a problem. Then again, IIRC this happened the first time they tried this...


This was exactly my question. I booked my trip some time ago and havent received any notice from Amtrak that I've been assigned a seat. If they're assigning seats to walk-ups today without informing us, that's a pretty messed up rollout of the system.

Oh well, I guess I'll check at the Club Acela this morning when I get into DC.


----------



## Acela150

A reliable source has stated that ALL Acela trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating in First Class.

Also the rollout is now at 4 trains a week until the rollout is complete.


----------



## MARC Rider

MARC Rider said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, and if someone booked a seat before a given train got assigned seats and Amtrak isn't cluing them in about it, I can totally see that being a problem. Then again, IIRC this happened the first time they tried this...
> 
> 
> 
> This was exactly my question. I booked my trip some time ago and havent received any notice from Amtrak that I've been assigned a seat. If they're assigning seats to walk-ups today without informing us, that's a pretty messed up rollout of the system.
> Oh well, I guess I'll check at the Club Acela this morning when I get into DC.
Click to expand...

When I checked with the agent at the Club Acela this morning, he checked and said that there was no assigned seating in tonight's 2124.


----------



## MARC Rider

MARC Rider said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, and if someone booked a seat before a given train got assigned seats and Amtrak isn't cluing them in about it, I can totally see that being a problem. Then again, IIRC this happened the first time they tried this...
> 
> 
> 
> This was exactly my question. I booked my trip some time ago and havent received any notice from Amtrak that I've been assigned a seat. If they're assigning seats to walk-ups today without informing us, that's a pretty messed up rollout of the system.
> Oh well, I guess I'll check at the Club Acela this morning when I get into DC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I checked with the agent at the Club Acela this morning, he checked and said that there was no assigned seating in tonight's 2124.
Click to expand...

I did a test booking for today's 2124 (by the way, the 1st class fare one way is $450), and there was no seat assignment. I did one for next week's 2124 (Oct 4), and seats were being assigned. But you cant see what seat you're getting untill you fork over the $$$ for the ticket.


----------



## daybeers

MARC Rider said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, and if someone booked a seat before a given train got assigned seats and Amtrak isn't cluing them in about it, I can totally see that being a problem. Then again, IIRC this happened the first time they tried this...
> 
> 
> 
> This was exactly my question. I booked my trip some time ago and havent received any notice from Amtrak that I've been assigned a seat. If they're assigning seats to walk-ups today without informing us, that's a pretty messed up rollout of the system.
> Oh well, I guess I'll check at the Club Acela this morning when I get into DC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I checked with the agent at the Club Acela this morning, he checked and said that there was no assigned seating in tonight's 2124.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did a test booking for today's 2124 (by the way, the 1st class fare one way is $450), and there was no seat assignment. I did one for next week's 2124 (Oct 4), and seats were being assigned. But you cant see what seat you're getting untill you fork over the $$$ for the ticket.
Click to expand...

That's what I think is the stupid part. What if you only want to pay for FC if you're going to get a seat by yourself instead of next to another one?


----------



## J-1 3235

Call Amtrak and ask which seats are available, then make your reservation with the agent.


----------



## daybeers

But if a customer is paying as much as an FC ticket is, they shouldn't have to call to make a seat reservation.


----------



## Acela150

Folks remember that you can choose your seat after your purchase your First Class ticket.


----------



## daybeers

Acela150 said:


> Folks remember that you can choose your seat after your purchase your First Class ticket.


But you don't know the availability beforehand though. Say you're traveling with someone else, and you want to be seated next to each other. There's only one FC car in the whole train, so you'd like to know if you can sit together before dropping a bunch of money on tickets, because what if you would want to save the money if you couldn't sit next to each other? Same situation if you are traveling alone and only want to pay for FC if you get a single.


----------



## J-1 3235

Make the reservation. If the available seats are unacceptable, go back in and modify your trip to a different train, or just cancel. First class is fully refundable, to a voucher or back to your credit card.

I would to see the availability beforehand, too. I'm just suggesting a way around this issue.

Mike


----------



## wwchi

agree you should be able to see seat availability FIRST...if I am looking at flying I want to see what seats are available - if only middle seats are available I might choose a different flight. Also agree with the person who wants to book 2 seats together - should be able to know that first!


----------



## Acela150

Since a few feel that the seat display should be before your purchase. I would talk to Amtrak about such a thing. If they get enough comments about it they might change it.




As Jim Hudson say's YMMV.


----------



## KnightRail

The next five coming soon: 2164, 2166, 2168, 2170, 2172


----------



## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> The next five coming soon: 2164, 2166, 2168, 2170, 2172


Roger that. I’ll keep an eye out.


----------



## Acela150

Acela150 said:


> Post Updated on 10/3/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> 2122
> 
> 2124
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> 2215
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2160
> 
> *2164 NEW*
> 
> *2166 NEW*
> 
> *2168 NEW*
> 
> *2170 NEW*
> 
> *2172 NEW*
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2251
> 
> 2255
> 
> 2256
> 
> 2258
> 
> 2259
> 
> 2260
> 
> 2261
> 
> 2275
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


Bumping this back up.


----------



## bratkinson

In assuring my 'gonna make it' target range to get to Select Executive for the first time ever, I changed my reservation from tomorrows' 148 NYP-WNL to 2172/412, choosing first class for the extra 50% points (regular and TQPs). After discovering that the 'change reservation' routine 'enter payment' screen, (why couldn't they simply have a 'use same credit card as original reservation option?), finding it very frustrating having to 'next' my way through all the CC billing info, I was surprised there was NOT a 'choose your seat' popup!! Maybe doing it on my Android phone is a problem? I even went back to the changed reservation, clicked on the 'modify' for train 2172 and it only took me to 'change departure', etc. No thanks! I'm not going to risk getting charged an extra $141 for the upgrade from 148 business class.

Maybe it'll let me choose a seat tomorrow....


----------



## KnightRail

bratkinson said:


> In assuring my 'gonna make it' target range to get to Select Executive for the first time ever, I changed my reservation from tomorrows' 148 NYP-WNL to 2172/412, choosing first class for the extra 50% points (regular and TQPs). After discovering that the 'change reservation' routine 'enter payment' screen, (why couldn't they simply have a 'use same credit card as original reservation option?), finding it very frustrating having to 'next' my way through all the CC billing info, I was surprised there was NOT a 'choose your seat' popup!! Maybe doing it on my Android phone is a problem? I even went back to the changed reservation, clicked on the 'modify' for train 2172 and it only took me to 'change departure', etc. No thanks! I'm not going to risk getting charged an extra $141 for the upgrade from 148 business class.
> 
> Maybe it'll let me choose a seat tomorrow....


2172 and the other four new additions are visible now for travel after October 15th.


----------



## Acela150

Acela150 said:


> Post Updated on 10/19/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> Link to a seating chart on Amtrak.com thanks to Bratkinson.
> 
> https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/onboard-accommodations-for-all-your-needs/seating-accommodations/first-class.html
> 
> As of 10/19/18 All weekday Northbound trains have assigned seating.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> 2122
> 
> 2124
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> 2215
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> *2154 NEW*
> 
> *2158 NEW*
> 
> 2160
> 
> *2163 NEW*
> 
> 2164
> 
> *2165 NEW*
> 
> 2166
> 
> *2167 NEW*
> 
> 2168
> 
> 2170
> 
> *2171 NEW*
> 
> 2172
> 
> *2248 NEW*
> 
> 2249
> 
> *2250 NEW*
> 
> 2251
> 
> *2253 NEW*
> 
> *2254 NEW*
> 
> 2255
> 
> 2256
> 
> 2258
> 
> 2259
> 
> 2260
> 
> 2261
> 
> 2275
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


Bumping it back up.


----------



## bratkinson

At least Amtrak has finally posted the Acela FC seating chart on their website https://www.amtrak.com/first-class-seat I got a reminder email about my assigned seat in this coming Monday's 2172 which had a link to their seating chart.


----------



## Acela150

bratkinson said:


> At least Amtrak has finally posted the Acela FC seating chart on their website https://www.amtrak.com/first-class-seat I got a reminder email about my assigned seat in this coming Monday's 2172 which had a link to their seating chart.


Thanks for posting that in the guest forums.


----------



## railiner

bratkinson said:


> At least Amtrak has finally posted the Acela FC seating chart on their website https://www.amtrak.com/first-class-seat I got a reminder email about my assigned seat in this coming Monday's 2172 which had a link to their seating chart.


Interesting....two and one seating, with them designated 'A, C, and F'.... someone really likes to copy airliner practice, even though no Amtrak cars have six seats across...


----------



## bratkinson

railiner said:


> someone really likes to copy airliner practice, even though no Amtrak cars have six seats across...


As most travelers have flown enough to know most non-widebody planes have A-F seats, Amtrak simply keeps that practice in First Class. I haven't ridden an Acela in so long I don't know if they carried that through to the business class cars.

Or...maybe Mr Anderson has plans on narrowing the seats and moving them closer together????


----------



## jis

Remember where the Amtrak reservation system came from. Hint: it predates Anderson by many decades. [emoji57]


----------



## cpotisch

bratkinson said:


> Or...maybe Mr Anderson has plans on narrowing the seats and moving them closer together????


Oh definitely. I'm "sure" that seats being lettered A, C, and F must mean that Anderson is about to cram twice the seats into each row of Acela First Class.





You know, I'm definitely not a fan of Anderson, but it frustrates me that it seems like so many people are so prune to assume that every little anything is a sign that he's about to do something terrible just to destroy Amtrak. Making these kinds of assumptions can pretty easily delegitimize the real issues we have to discuss and communicate. I think it's best to focus on the big problems we know are there and focus on trying to make those better, not to come up with random theories about how the Amtrak-pocalypse is coming.


----------



## Acela150

Let’s remember that the Acela trainsets were introduced into service long before Anderson was in charge of Amtrak.


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Let’s remember that the Acela trainsets were introduced into service long before Anderson was in charge of Amtrak.


And that the seats have already been lettered A/C/D/F.
Also, I'm curious if they block row 16 until the car is almost full.


----------



## railiner

When I made my observation, it wasn't with the intent to insinuate that Anderson had anything to do with it...I'm sure that he doesn't "micro-manage" such trivia.

I just don't see why whomever made the decision to copy the airline practice of skipping some letter's would think passenger's would find that more logical than a simple, "A,B, and C"...

And if they thought otherwise, they should perhaps have used "A, C, and D" since Amtrak does not have anything with more than 4 rows across...


----------



## Triley

railiner said:


> When I made my observation, it wasn't with the intent to insinuate that Anderson had anything to do with it...I'm sure that he doesn't "micro-manage" such trivia.
> 
> I just don't see why whomever made the decision to copy the airline practice of skipping some letter's would think passenger's would find that more logical than a simple, "A,B, and C"...
> 
> And if they thought otherwise, they should perhaps have used "A, C, and D" since Amtrak does not have anything with more than 4 rows across...


Except it's 4 rows wide in First Class, so you'd need to tack on another letter.
I don't really get what the big deal is, though. Has anyone made a big deal about a 4 seat wide plane not being labeled A/B/C/D (though I have seen a few)?

The Acela is in direct competition with the airlines (first class, luggage bins, etc), so why not continue with that theme and follow the airlines' direction with seat numbers?


----------



## MARC Rider

bratkinson said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone really likes to copy airliner practice, even though no Amtrak cars have six seats across...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As most travelers have flown enough to know most non-widebody planes have A-F seats, Amtrak simply keeps that practice in First Class. I haven't ridden an Acela in so long I don't know if they carried that through to the business class cars.
> 
> Or...maybe Mr Anderson has plans on narrowing the seats and moving them closer together????
Click to expand...

I spent one winter semi-regularly flying (as a passenger) on MD80s. They had 5 across seating, 2 on one side of the aisle, 3 on the other. I recall that the seat numbers went AB on one side and DEF on the other.


----------



## bratkinson

MARC Rider said:


> bratkinson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone really likes to copy airliner practice, even though no Amtrak cars have six seats across...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As most travelers have flown enough to know most non-widebody planes have A-F seats, Amtrak simply keeps that practice in First Class. I haven't ridden an Acela in so long I don't know if they carried that through to the business class cars.
> 
> Or...maybe Mr Anderson has plans on narrowing the seats and moving them closer together????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I spent one winter semi-regularly flying (as a passenger) on MD80s. They had 5 across seating, 2 on one side of the aisle, 3 on the other. I recall that the seat numbers went AB on one side and DEF on the other.
Click to expand...

My flying days of yore also recalls the AB-DEF airplane seating. And in Midwest Express DC-9s and later MD-80s, I think it was simply AB-CD. But not having flown anywhere in the past 12 years or so, I really don't care at all WHAT airline seating is.

As for my remark regarding Andersons' possible plans, that was just my way of being laughably facetious. I guess it fizzled.


----------



## jis

So we are spending a page worth of comments (which of course are priceless [emoji57]) for discussing something that no one really cares about? [emoji51]


----------



## Acela150

jis said:


> So we are spending a page worth of comments (which of course are priceless [emoji57]) for discussing something that no one really cares about? [emoji51]


Welcome to AU!


----------



## OBS

bratkinson said:


> MARC Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bratkinson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone really likes to copy airliner practice, even though no Amtrak cars have six seats across...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As most travelers have flown enough to know most non-widebody planes have A-F seats, Amtrak simply keeps that practice in First Class. I haven't ridden an Acela in so long I don't know if they carried that through to the business class cars.
> 
> Or...maybe Mr Anderson has plans on narrowing the seats and moving them closer together????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I spent one winter semi-regularly flying (as a passenger) on MD80s. They had 5 across seating, 2 on one side of the aisle, 3 on the other. I recall that the seat numbers went AB on one side and DEF on the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My flying days of yore also recalls the AB-DEF airplane seating. And in Midwest Express DC-9s and later MD-80s, I think it was simply AB-CD. But not having flown anywhere in the past 12 years or so, I really don't care at all WHAT airline seating is.
> 
> As for my remark regarding Andersons' possible plans, that was just my way of being laughably facetious. I guess it fizzled.
Click to expand...

Sorry to continue off topic, but used to LOVE Midwest Express Airlines!


----------



## bratkinson

I'm riding Acela 2172 FC from WAS as I write this. It would seem that Amtrak could use a small lesson in 'doing what they say/advertise'. When I boarded, the 'guaranteed forward facing single seats 4F-7F weren't.

i remarked to a backwards facing passenger as I was walking to my seat about it. Somebody must've flipped them in the 20 minutes since we left WAS. I had my head looking at my laptop screen.

PS...As a Milwaukee resident until '95, Midwest Express was practically the only airline I flew. I can still taste the great meals and fresh baked cookies!


----------



## cpotisch

bratkinson said:


> I'm riding Acela 2172 FC from WAS as I write this. It would seem that Amtrak could use a small lesson in 'doing what they say/advertise'. When I boarded, the 'guaranteed forward facing single seats 4F-7F weren't.
> 
> i remarked to a backwards facing passenger as I was walking to my seat about it. Somebody must've flipped them in the 20 minutes since we left WAS. I had my head looking at my laptop screen.
> 
> PS...As a Milwaukee resident until '95, Midwest Express was practically the only airline I flew. I can still taste the great meals and fresh baked cookies!


I guess they just forgot to flip them. Typical of Amtrak to go out of their way to guarantee something and specifically forget to do that thing.


----------



## Anderson

Given that I've heard a rumbling that Amtrak is looking at trying to charge for single seats in Acela First (probably alongside reducing the "base" fare while raising revenue by a bit), if they can't guarantee a seat direction they're /begging/ for chargeback fights.

Actually, as it stands they're sort-of begging for partial chargebacks as things stand...but this actually tells me why they put seat selection after purchase: If they put seat selection before purchase, you could say "I purchased seat X, which was supposed to be a forward-facing single and it wasn't!" An intermediate-boarding passenger who got wind of the train being "backwards" (e.g. boarding at BAL) could conceivably attempt to "force" their way onto the next train without paying an upfare. You could also get a fight if someone boarded and their seat were taken (e.g. if I paid an extra $20 for a single and got plopped in an opposing-side window with a seatmate, I would not be a happy camper). Resolving such disputes would be at the mercy of the credit card company, and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least a few cases go against Amtrak if you can make a case that the seat guarantee was part of the "accommodation" you paid for.

However, with seat selection/assignment /after/ purchase, it is probably harder to argue that it is part of the contract (you're guaranteed /a/ seat, not /that/ seat; your guarantee of /a/ seat just "happens" to correspond to /that/ seat).

As to the use of A through F, my guess is that they wanted to keep the door open to 3-2 seating if they ever wound up with an appropriate commuter contract (remember, MNRR and the LIRR use 3-2 seating) so there was no reason to change the system.


----------



## Heading North

I could be wrong, but I recall the seat lettering starting with the Acela and crossing over into the Northeast Regional and Amfleet trains (or Acela Regional as they were briefly called) as a marketing pitch to compete with airlines and show that there are no middle seats. Whenever Ive traveled on a Superliner or a long-distance Amfleet (II) the seats have always been numbered sequentially with no letters, seat 1 to 59 or whatever.


----------



## KnightRail

November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.


----------



## PVD

Flew Midwest Exp to the Frozen Four the year it was in Milwaukee (also caught an amazing exhibit of Vatican Art that was in the US at the time) 717 with 88 nice leather seats and baked on board choc chip coolies, going home was a more conventional 5 across md-80.


----------



## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.


I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what you’re seeing?


----------



## KnightRail

Acela150 said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what youre seeing?
Click to expand...

That is correct about the Thanksgiving period, those should already be turned on in availability. November 19th is the day the launch of the Acela First class program should be completed and in full force.


----------



## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what youre seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct about the Thanksgiving period, those should already be turned on in availability. November 19th is the day the launch of the Acela First class program should be completed and in full force.
Click to expand...

Roger that. And thank you for your info.


----------



## PRR 60

Acela150 said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what youre seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct about the Thanksgiving period, those should already be turned on in availability. November 19th is the day the launch of the Acela First class program should be completed and in full force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roger that. And thank you for your info.
Click to expand...

When you say "all Acela trains," do you mean Business and First Class?


----------



## cpotisch

PRR 60 said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what youre seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct about the Thanksgiving period, those should already be turned on in availability. November 19th is the day the launch of the Acela First class program should be completed and in full force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roger that. And thank you for your info.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say "all Acela trains," do you mean Business and First Class?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he's saying that all Acela trains will have assigned seating in First Class starting 11/19.


----------



## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> November 19th should be the first day where 100% of Acela trains will have assigned first class seating.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been informed by someone that all Acela Trains during the Thanksgiving period will have assigned seating. Perhaps this is what youre seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is correct about the Thanksgiving period, those should already be turned on in availability. November 19th is the day the launch of the Acela First class program should be completed and in full force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roger that. And thank you for your info.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say "all Acela trains," do you mean Business and First Class?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure he's saying that all Acela trains will have assigned seating in First Class starting 11/19.
Click to expand...

Correct. First Class is getting the assigned seating for now. I believe that the entire train will come out with the new trainsets. And IMO this makes things more of a challenge if one wants to sit in the quiet car. Unless they make booking for the Quiet Car an option.

The only way that booking for BC seats will be made easy is if cars are given a number like Sleeping Cars. So for instance Car 1-6. And then make those car numbers permanent. Since the train turns in station. But I can honestly see that slowing boarding. But time will tell.


----------



## Acela150

Acela150 said:


> Post Updated on 10/30/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> Link to a seating chart on Amtrak.com thanks to Bratkinson.
> 
> https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/onboard-accommodations-for-all-your-needs/seating-accommodations/first-class.html
> 
> As of 10/19/18 All weekday Northbound trains have assigned seating.
> 
> As of 10/30/18 7 trains remain to get the assigned seating. 6 weekday and 1 weekend.
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> *2107 NEW*
> 
> *2109 NEW*
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> *2119 NEW*
> 
> *2121 NEW*
> 
> 2122
> 
> 2124
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> 2215
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> 2154
> 
> 2158
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2163
> 
> 2164
> 
> 2165
> 
> 2166
> 
> 2167
> 
> 2168
> 
> 2170
> 
> 2171
> 
> 2172
> 
> 2248
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2250
> 
> 2251
> 
> *2252 NEW *
> 
> 2253
> 
> 2254
> 
> 2255
> 
> 2256
> 
> 2258
> 
> 2259
> 
> 2260
> 
> 2261
> 
> 2275
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


Bump, Bump, Bump, Bump it up!


----------



## Acela150

Acela150 said:


> Post Updated on 11/7/18 to reflect new trains with Assigned Seating. New trains in *RED*.
> 
> Link to a seating chart on Amtrak.com thanks to Bratkinson.
> 
> https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/onboard-accommodations-for-all-your-needs/seating-accommodations/first-class.html
> 
> As of 10/19/18 All weekday Northbound trains have assigned seating.
> 
> As of 11/7/18 the roll out is complete effective 11/12/18
> 
> I've done a check of trains that have assigned seating.
> 
> WAS-NYP
> 
> 2100
> 
> 2103
> 
> 2104
> 
> 2107
> 
> 2109
> 
> 2110
> 
> 2117
> 
> 2119
> 
> 2121
> 
> 2122
> 
> 2124
> 
> 2126
> 
> 2128
> 
> 2203
> 
> 2205
> 
> 2208
> 
> 2213
> 
> 2215
> 
> 2220
> 
> 2222
> 
> 2224
> 
> 2228
> 
> WAS-BOS
> 
> 2150
> 
> *2151 NEW*
> 
> *2153 NEW*
> 
> 2154
> 
> *2155 NEW*
> 
> 2158
> 
> *2159 NEW*
> 
> 2160
> 
> 2163
> 
> 2164
> 
> 2165
> 
> 2166
> 
> 2167
> 
> 2168
> 
> 2170
> 
> 2171
> 
> 2172
> 
> *2173 NEW*
> 
> *2175 NEW*
> 
> 2248
> 
> 2249
> 
> 2250
> 2251
> 
> 2252
> 
> 2253
> 
> 2254
> 
> 2255
> 
> 2256
> 
> *2257 NEW*
> 
> 2258
> 
> 2259
> 
> 2260
> 
> 2261
> 
> 2275
> 
> NYP-BOS
> 
> 2190
> 
> 2290
> 
> I'll try my best to keep this up to date.


As of 11/7/17 *ALL* Acela trains now have assigned seating in First Class.  

I will be riding 2154 next Friday and hope that my Upgrade Coupons can be used and will give a report on the Assigned Seating.


----------



## bratkinson

Acela150 said:


> As of 11/7/17 *ALL* Acela trains now have assigned seating in First Class.
> 
> I will be riding 2154 next Friday and hope that my Upgrade Coupons can be used and will give a report on the Assigned Seating.


When I upgraded Sunday afternoon for todays' trains (AGR Select Plus gets 48 hour upgrade coupons, vs 12 hr for AGR Select and BofA credit card anniversary upgrade coupons), I was completely surprised to find that #2153 was NOT assigned seats.  Not being reserved, I couldn't 'see' online (modify seat assignment screen) how many seats were taken.   Upon boarding, ALL the single seats were filled as were all forward facing double seats.  Now I know why it 'appears' to many that the Acela makes money! (above the rail).  So I settled for seat 16F against the front bulkhead and had it all to myself all the way to WAS.

And #2172?  There were maybe 20 seats available Sunday afternoon when I upgraded.  All the single-seat choices were taken, both front- and rear-facing, so I became the first one at a 4-person table that I could face forward.  While waiting in the WAS ClubAcela, I decided to see 'how full is it?', and there was only ONE seat available!  And most of the seats that were vacated at any stop were immediately refillled by boarding passengers.  After NYP, the BC was maybe 30% full.


----------



## Acela150

I'm taking a guess that most of the First Class seats are open until the 48 hour upgrades are available to be used. Simply cause First Class is very pricey.


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> I'm taking a guess that most of the First Class seats are open until the 48 hour upgrades are available to be used. Simply cause First Class is very pricey.


If you only knew how many regulars had tickets paid for (even if only the business class portion) paid for by their employer...


----------



## bratkinson

Acela150 said:


> I'm taking a guess that most of the First Class seats are open until the 48 hour upgrades are available to be used. Simply cause First Class is very pricey.


I have to agree.  Seeing how in less than 48 hours, almost all the available seats got taken, I'd have to say the 'upgraders' got the seats.  Those with 12 hour upgrade coupons probably got some of those seats, simply because there are fewer Select Plus/Executive riders than Select only.  Could be some of those 12-hour coupons for BofA card anniversaries got used as well.


----------



## Acela150

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm taking a guess that most of the First Class seats are open until the 48 hour upgrades are available to be used. Simply cause First Class is very pricey.
> 
> 
> 
> If you only knew how many regulars had tickets paid for (even if only the business class portion) paid for by their employer...
Click to expand...

Actually having worked in the Call Center in Philly I have quite a good idea.


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Actually having worked in the Call Center in Philly I have quite a good idea. [emoji6]


But I actually worked onboard with them and would physically see the corporate Amex platinum cards all day in the cafe.


----------



## pennyk

I just upgraded to FC my Acela ticket for Saturday with an upgrade coupon.  I phoned and spoke to an agent.  I guess the system assigned me a seat, which was a double.  I requested a single seat facing forward and the agent changed for me.  I will be curious to see if the seat is really facing forward.  This will be my first experience with assigned seating.


----------



## cpotisch

bratkinson said:


> I have to agree.  Seeing how in less than 48 hours, almost all the available seats got taken, I'd have to say the 'upgraders' got the seats.  Those with 12 hour upgrade coupons probably got some of those seats, simply because there are fewer Select Plus/Executive riders than Select only.  Could be some of those 12-hour coupons for BofA card anniversaries got used as well.


Wait, there are 12 hour coupons and 48 hour coupons? We got an upgrade coupon with the AGR BOA card - is that 12 hour or 48 hour?


----------



## Acela150

Triley said:


> But I actually worked onboard with them and would physically see the corporate Amex platinum cards all day in the cafe.


Show off!   



pennyk said:


> I just upgraded to FC my Acela ticket for Saturday with an upgrade coupon.  I phoned and spoke to an agent.  I guess the system assigned me a seat, which was a double.  I requested a single seat facing forward and the agent changed for me.  I will be curious to see if the seat is really facing forward.  This will be my first experience with assigned seating.


I'm glad to know that I can ask the agent to change the seats. I'll be calling Wednesday to upgrade.   



cpotisch said:


> Wait, there are 12 hour coupons and 48 hour coupons? We got an upgrade coupon with the AGR BOA card - is that 12 hour or 48 hour?


Yes. 12 hour coupons are for Select Members and the members that buy upgrades with points. 48 hour upgrades are for select plus and select executive members.


----------



## cpotisch

Acela150 said:


> Show off!
> 
> I'm glad to know that I can ask the agent to change the seats. I'll be calling Wednesday to upgrade.
> 
> Yes. 12 hour coupons are for Select Members and the members that buy upgrades with points. 48 hour upgrades are for select plus and select executive members.


Sorry so is mine 48 hour or 12 hour?


----------



## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> Sorry so is mine 48 hour or 12 hour?


On the AGR site click exclusive benefits, click view all coupons, that will show you if it's 12 hours or 48 hours.


----------



## pennyk

cpotisch said:


> Sorry so is mine 48 hour or 12 hour?


I believe the coupon with the credit card is a 12 hour coupon.


----------



## cpotisch

pennyk said:


> I believe the coupon with the credit card is a 12 hour coupon.


Argh. And can it work for two people on the same ticket, or is it just one passenger per coupon?


----------



## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> Argh. And can it work for two people on the same ticket, or is it just one passenger per coupon?


One coupon per passenger. AFAIK it's never been one coupon for two passengers.


----------



## bratkinson

Here's the exact text copied from my as yet unused 12 hr upgrade coupon from BofA credit card anniversary:


Coupon Restrictions:



Coupon valid for one (1) space-available, one-way, One-Class Upgrade. Valid only from Coach class to Business class, or from Acela® Business class to Acela First class, on a single travel segment or leg.

Not valid for upgrade to sleeping car accommodations.

Not eligible for use with 10-trip, monthly or other multiride tickets.

Subject to availability; upgrade not available on all trains at all times.

Upgrade may be combined with corporate discount, but is not combinable with any other discount, coupon or Amtrak Guest Rewards® redemption travel.

Travel blackout dates apply.


Offer is not valid on the following services: Adirondack®, Auto Train®, California Zephyr®, Capitol Limited®, City of New Orleans®, Crescent®, Empire Builder®, Keystone Service®, Silver Meteor®, Silver Star®, Southwest Chief®, Sunset Limited®, Texas Eagle®, and train/Thruway series 7000 – 8999.

This Coupon# is unique to your coupon and valid for one use only. Buying or selling this coupon is prohibited and will invalidate the coupon. Coupon may be transferred to a family member or friend.

Other restrictions may apply.


----------



## cpotisch

bratkinson said:


> Here's the exact text copied from my as yet unused 12 hr upgrade coupon from BofA credit card anniversary:
> 
> 
> Coupon﻿ Restrictions:
> 
> 
> 
> Coupon valid for one (1) space-available, one﻿-way, One-Class Upgrade. Valid only from Coach class to Business class, or from Acela® Business class to Acela First class, on a single travel segment or leg.
> 
> Not valid for upgrade to sleeping car accommodations.
> 
> Not eligible for use with 10-trip, monthly or other multiride tickets.
> 
> Subject to availability; upgrade not available on all trains at all times.
> 
> Upgrade may be combined with corporate discount, but is not combinable with any other discount, coupon or Amtrak Guest Rewards® redemption travel.
> 
> Travel blackout dates apply.
> 
> 
> ﻿ Offer is not valid on the following services: Adirondack®, Auto Train﻿®, California Zephyr®, Capitol Limited®, City of New Orleans®, Crescent®, Empire Builder®, Keystone Service®, Silver Meteor®, Silver Star®, Southwest Chief®, Sunset Limited®, Texas Eagle®, and train/Thruway series 7000 – 8999.
> 
> This Coupon# is unique to your coupon and valid for one use only. Buying or selling this coupon is prohibited and will invalidate the coupon. Coupon may be transferred to a family member or friend.
> 
> Other restrictions may apply.


Thanks. This is obviously a pretty irrelevant point, but I am sort of surprised that they had to spell out all the routes it can't be used on due them not having business class or first class seating to upgrade to. I mean if you already say that it's only valid for upgrades from Coach to Business or Acela Business to Acela First, why is that necessary? Just me being nit-picky there.


----------



## bratkinson

cpotisch said:


> Thanks. This is obviously a pretty irrelevant point, but I am sort of surprised that they had to spell out all the routes it can't be used on due them not having business class or first class seating to upgrade to. I mean if you already say that it's only valid for upgrades from Coach to Business or Acela Business to Acela First, why is that necessary? Just me being nit-picky there.


I suspect some lawyer types out there 'required' Amtrak to state specific exclusions, train by train.  Otherwise, some jerk may want to use their upgrade coupon on one of those trains and then become beligerant with the Amtrak reservations person or station ticket clerk when they are refused the upgrade.  They might even think it was some kind of discrimination based on just about anything. 

I was politely refused my 48hr upgrades for this past Tuesdays' Acelas when I called on Saturday!  The kind lady had to repeat my reservation was a Tuesday train a couple times before I 'got it', not a Monday train as I had been thinking/telling her all along.  I apologized for proving I'm a senile citizen these days.  This old geezer brain of mine is getting worse by the day!  I have to remind myself every morning when I get out of bed what day of the week it is.  One of the many joys of being retired, I guess.   

At least Amtrak didn't use the jargon I've seen in too many contracts..."Including, but not limited to...", I've even written that into a couple of contracts of my own  in years gone by!  The 'other restrictions may apply' clause essentially provides an 'easy out' for any legitimate reason an upgrade can't be used...like...the train is sold out, or, it's the Sunday after Thanksgiving...duh!!!


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## pennyk

pennyk said:


> I just upgraded to FC my Acela ticket for Saturday with an upgrade coupon.  I phoned and spoke to an agent.  I guess the system assigned me a seat, which was a double.  I requested a single seat facing forward and the agent changed for me.  I will be curious to see if the seat is really facing forward.  This will be my first experience with assigned seating.


My seat on the Acela was facing forward and it was a great seat.  It appeared that a good number of passengers in my car were in the wrong seats.  I was sitting just forward of midcar.  The conductor starting scanning tickets in the rear and I could hear many conversations (and some arguments).  I saw many people changing seats.  One man ended up changing seats twice because he sat in the wrong seat twice.  One's seat number is on the e-ticket AND I received an email reminder about the assigned seats.


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## Acela150

People are clearly still getting used to the concept.


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## Triley

Acela150 said:


> People are clearly still getting used to the concept.


If only the occupied/empty sign above the seats actually worked, and display a first of last name...


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## AmtrakBlue

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are clearly still getting used to the concept.
> 
> 
> 
> If only the occupied/empty sign above the seats actually worked, and display a first of last name...
Click to expand...

But who looks above the seats?      I know I tend to forget to check for seat checks when I'm riding the regionals.  And if I were a regular Acela rider and didn't keep up with things on AU, I probably might not notice I've been assigned a seat.


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## Triley

AmtrakBlue said:


> But who looks above the seats?  [emoji6]   I know I tend to forget to check for seat checks when I'm riding the regionals.  And if I were a regular Acela rider and didn't keep up with things on AU, I probably might not notice I've been assigned a seat.


Understood, but I would use it as a final reminder, to perhaps settle squabbles. First the seat assignment is emailed to you. Then it's on your updated e-ticket. I don't know if there's any signage in the stations, but hopefully crews are making announcements about assignments. At that point the sign above the seat shouldn't even be necessary, other than to confirm one found their seat.


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## Acela150

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are clearly still getting used to the concept.
> 
> 
> 
> If only the occupied/empty sign above the seats actually worked, and display a first of last name...
Click to expand...

Ask me there is a simple fix to that.. 

Give the LSA's the FC manifest and they put names on seats. 

That's too easy though.


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## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Ask me there is a simple fix to that..
> Give the LSA's the FC manifest and they put names on seats.
> That's too easy though.


That would just add to the list of things we need to handle when there's a large amount of passenger changeover.


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## Acela150

Triley said:


> That would just add to the list of things we need to handle when there's a large amount of passenger changeover.


Sorry what I should have said was at origin points. Such as BOS, NYP, WAS. And maybe have name tags ready for places like PHL. But then again I'm a multitasker and a half.


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## bratkinson

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are clearly still getting used to the concept.
> 
> 
> 
> If only the occupied/empty sign above the seats actually worked, and display a first of last name...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the electronic 'taken' seat check/system fell into disuse shortly after the Acelas' started running as it was 'buggy' and the conductors had/have been using paper seat checks for eons.  So, they ended up sewing on small seat check holders on the top of each seat.

What's needed is clear, easy to read row and seat numbers, akin to what's on an airplane.  The couple of times I rode Acela FC in the past month or so I had to really 'look hard' to find the row number, much less seat number.  I think once upon a time they may have been back lit, but those bulbs must have long since burned out on all of them!  Even peel-and-stick row/seat numbers near the bottom of the always-hit-my-head-on-them overhead bin doors would be a big step in alleviating the wrong-seat problem.


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## Acela150

Welp,

I just upgraded my reservation for Friday. And of course us Philly people get the shaft. Not one single seat available. Not one two person table available. So Mom and I will be in 4 and 5 C. Which is a four person table. And sadly no window seat. BUT at least it's on the correct side for Long Island Sound.   But it seems like to me people boarding at a place other the DC, NY, or BOS. You should dare I say.. PAY for your seat selection.


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## bratkinson

Acela150 said:


> Welp,
> 
> I just upgraded my reservation for Friday. And of course us Philly people get the shaft. Not one single seat available. Not one two person table available. So Mom and I will be in 4 and 5 C. Which is a four person table. And sadly no window seat. BUT at least it's on the correct side for Long Island Sound.   But it seems like to me people boarding at a place other the DC, NY, or BOS. You should dare I say.. PAY for your seat selection.


When I used my 48 hr upgrades a couple weeks ago to Acela FC, I encountered the same thing.  By 48 hrs prior to departure, the Acela FC gets pretty much filled with those actually paying for FC. 

Based on my experience of actually buying/paying for Acela FC about 2 months prior to departure, I was the first person to purchase a FC seat on that train as everything else was available.  So, it would seem, that Amtrak really IS capturing the business market more than the leisure market for the Acelas.  Unfortunately, I can't  confirm that by looking at how many Acela business class seats have been sold, and the 'only x seats left at this price' isn't much of a help unless one has figured out which bucket has only the handful of seats left.


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## cpotisch

So if we were booked on Acela from NYP to BOS or vice versa, how good would our odds likely be at getting two or three decent seats together 48 hours out?


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## Acela150

cpotisch said:


> So if we were booked on Acela from NYP to BOS or vice versa, how good would our odds likely be at getting two or three decent seats together 48 hours out?


I'd say decent. Even more so BOS. There is always a large turnover at NYP and BOS is the origin point.


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## bratkinson

cpotisch said:


> So if we were booked on Acela from NYP to BOS or vice versa, how good would our odds likely be at getting two or three decent seats together 48 hours out?


Based on what I observed, you'll end up at one of the 4-person tables as those appear to 'go' last. 

When I  used a pair of 48 hr upgrades, I managed to find a 'double' seat to myself against bulkhead facing backwards on #2153 from NHV as all single seats were taken.  Not bad.  On #2172 from WAS, I was the first one at a 4-seat table...probably because I called 47 hrs 50 minutes prior to departure.  Upon departure, I had a table mate diagonally across from me (on the aisle).  At BAL, I got a woman next to me.  Spot #4, opposite me at the window and traveling backwards, never had a passenger.

So, to get a couple seats together 48 hrs out...call as close as possible to 48 hrs to upgrade.  For what it's worth, I couldn't apply the upgrade using Firefox or Internet Explorer on my computer, nor could I do it on my Android phone.  Apparently, Amtrak has some IT issues or they intentionally, but silently, discourage people from upgrading into Acela first class.  So...when calling, have the seating diagram in front of you Acela First Class Seating. You'll have to figure out which direction the train is going though, and choose first/last car appropriately.


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## Acela150

Ok here's my story. 

From PHL-NYP the FC Car was sold out we ended up sitting next to two business travelers who had their stuff spread out on our seats who promptly moved their stuff when they saw our arrival. 

Mom and I sat across from each other. When we got to NYP the seat next to my Mom was empty. The conductor told us that the guy who had that seat was "at the bar" and I could sit there. So from just after passing New Rochelle to Route 128 I was able to sit next to my Mom. So it appears that passengers who use upgrade coupons are best off boarding at WAS, NYP, RTE, BBY, or BOS.


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## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Ok here's my story.
> From PHL-NYP the FC Car was sold out we ended up sitting next to two business travelers who had their stuff spread out on our seats who promptly moved their stuff when they saw our arrival.
> Mom and I sat across from each other. When we got to NYP the seat next to my Mom was empty. The conductor told us that the guy who had that seat was "at the bar" and I could sit there. So from just after passing New Rochelle to Route 128 I was able to sit next to my Mom. So it appears that passengers who use upgrade coupons are best off boarding at WAS, NYP, RTE, BBY, or BOS.


Once again, this is what bewildered me working that car.

(Presumably) his company bought him a first class ticket, which includes alcohol, but he went to the cafe as paid for it.

Oh well, more for the rest of the passengers in the car.


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## Acela150

I just booked a trip in FC for January on 2160. I just looked at the seat choices on my phone. Everything is open except for the 4 seats I booked and 1F. ARROW originally gave me on my first reservation 3A and 3C. I asked for 8A and 8C. I was booking with companion coupons that were given to me from another AU'er. When I booked the other 2 it assigned 3A and 3C again. I picked 9A and 9C for those seats. Which is a four seater table. So it appears that seats are assigned from the rear end of the car. Rear end being designated as the end where FC passengers enter.


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## bratkinson

Acela150 said:


> I just booked a trip in FC for January on 2160. I just looked at the seat choices on my phone. Everything is open except for the 4 seats I booked and 1F. ARROW originally gave me on my first reservation 3A and 3C. I asked for 8A and 8C. I was booking with companion coupons that were given to me from another AU'er. When I booked the other 2 it assigned 3A and 3C again. I picked 9A and 9C for those seats. Which is a four seater table. So it appears that seats are assigned from the rear end of the car. Rear end being designated as the end where FC passengers enter.


My guess is that the computer always assigns the lowest number rows first, similar to how roomettes and bedrooms are filled.  

I'm surprised the companion coupons 'work' in Acela FC.  I know sleeping accomodations are exempted.  I learn something new every day!


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## bratkinson

Acela150 said:


> So it appears that passengers who use upgrade coupons are best off boarding at WAS, NYP, RTE, BBY, or BOS.


From what I've witnessed in quite a few trips along the NEC, NYP-PHL has the most passengers.  Northbound, I've witnessed standing room only in business class on #148 about 2 years ago because at PHL, a 'mob' boarded BC, including me.  I always position myself on the platform to board at the rear of the car at PHL and other cities as most passengers board from the front.  That gives me a better chance of getting a window seat before they 'work their way down' towards the rear.


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## Acela150

bratkinson said:


> My guess is that the computer always assigns the lowest number rows first, similar to how roomettes and bedrooms are filled.
> 
> I'm surprised the companion coupons 'work' in Acela FC.  I know sleeping accomodations are exempted.  I learn something new every day!


If one reads the Terms and Conditions of the coupon, one has to pay for the upgrade.   Something I had know about.



bratkinson said:


> From what I've witnessed in quite a few trips along the NEC, NYP-PHL has the most passengers.  Northbound, I've witnessed standing room only in business class on #148 about 2 years ago because at PHL, a 'mob' boarded BC, including me.  I always position myself on the platform to board at the rear of the car at PHL and other cities as most passengers board from the front.  That gives me a better chance of getting a window seat before they 'work their way down' towards the rear.


NYP is where the largest turnover is on any train that goes to or from Boston. PHL is a hit and miss station for each train. Sometimes it's large, sometimes not so much.


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## amamba

I traveled PVD - NYP FC two weeks ago. On my way south,  I was on the super early Saturday Acela. We left PVD before 7 am. When I boarded the car was dark and no one instructed me to sit in my assigned seat and there wee only a handful of ppl in the car. I sat in what I thought was my seat but I was one row off. The car remained no more than 20% occupied during the trip and at one point the conductor told two strangers sitting across from each other at a single table they could spread out. 

On my way home, I was on the 4 pm out of NYP on Sunday (2254?). It was sold out. Everyone was instructed to sit in their seat and it looked like everyone complied. I had a single seat again but then again I ensured I did at the time of booking.


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## Acela150

So I booked a FC trip and paid for the seat for a trip in May. Every seat on my return trip except one is open. When I went to chose my seat on both trips something stuck out to me. My northbound trip is on 2168. 2168 turns from 2151. Normally FC is on the front of 2168. The interesting thing is on Amtrak.com when I went to change my seat is the diagram shows FC would be on the rear. So I made my seat choice based on FC being on the front. I'm taking 2165 south to Philly. 2165 is a toss up with FC Car location. But as of late it's been on the rear. But Amtrak.com shows the car as on the front. 

SO... With that being said I'm going to take a guess at something. Amtrak.com shows the FC car on the rear for Northbound trains and the front for Southbound trains. That's nothing short of a guess.


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## KnightRail

PRR 60 said:


> The plan was to expand the system to include Acela Business Class as well.


...August 3, 2020


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## AmtrakBlue

KnightRail said:


> ...August 3, 2020


I booked two Acela trips yesterday for August 5th. I just looked at the tickets and don’t see a seat assignment. The trips are only between WIL & BAL.


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## Acela150

AmtrakBlue said:


> I booked two Acela trips yesterday for August 5th. I just looked at the tickets and don’t see a seat assignment. The trips are only between WIL & BAL.



A guess says that they will be doing what they did with FC, Introducing it slowly and in increments.


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## KnightRail

AmtrakBlue said:


> I booked two Acela trips yesterday for August 5th. I just looked at the tickets and don’t see a seat assignment. The trips are only between WIL & BAL.



Not turned on yet, only going live five days prior. Quick launch if schedule is maintained.


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## 20th Century Rider

benale said:


> MODERATOR NOTE: a 2018 thread regarding seat assignments on Acela was merged with this existing thread
> 
> This is always a sore subject. Last week I took the Capitol Limited to Pittsburgh from Chicago. Of course I was hoping for two seats to myself or an attractive friendly woman as a seatmate,but both of these never seem to happen. My seatmate was a rather gross individual with significant body odor. It was obvious he had been drinking. First thing he does is hit me up for money and then wants to engage in loud conversation. You know the type. I just put on my headsets and made the best of a bad situation. Of course everybody in my car was going to Pittsburgh,so there was no break.
> 
> My question is..I understand the different coaches for different destinations. Especially,when Pittsburgh arrives at 5AM,it's good to have all the Pittsburgh bound travelers in one car. Why can't we just pick our own seats in the assigned car? Yes, i know there are a few arranged for two or more people traveling together,but possibly they can be designated "couples only" before we leave? It would be nice to pick your own seat, and if worst comes to worst,you'll have my situation.
> 
> When traveling by plane, you really don't mind because it's rarely more than a five hour flight,but on a cross country train in coach you could be sitting next to someone for three days! At least, the Capitol Limited has The sightseer car to escape to, No such luck on the other Eastern trains.
> 
> I did survive the night having spent most of it in the Sightseer Car.


This is indeed sore point! I had upgraded to business class on the Surfliner and was sitting next to a window... seats unassigned. Then along came a couple that wanted to sit together so I was told I would have to find another seat. I do understand the couple wanting to sit together but the everything was full and the only remaining seat was an aisle downstairs. My gripe... why cant passengers have the right to pre choose seats like the airlines? Certainly the technology exists; as for the situation described above... my sympathies go out to anyone who sits next to someone who doesn't present themselves responsibly when traveling!


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## KnightRail

For future reference, booking, and seat selection:
Power Car
CAR 1: 1st Class Car
CAR 2: Quiet Business Class Car
CAR 3: Business Class Car
CAR 4: Cafe Car
CAR 6: Business Class Car
CAR 6: Business Class Car
Power Car

“CAR #“ decals are being/have been applied both on the interiors and exteriors of the trainsets.


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## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> For future reference, booking, and seat selection:
> Power Car
> CAR 1: 1st Class Car
> CAR 2: Quiet Business Class Car
> CAR 3: Business Class Car
> CAR 4: Cafe Car
> CAR 6: Business Class Car
> CAR 6: Business Class Car
> Power Car
> 
> “CAR #“ decals are being/have been applied both on the interiors and exteriors of the trainsets.



Thanks for the intel. Much appreciated. I'd say I'd take shotgun in the lead power car.  But I've done that a few times, so I'm good on that front.


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## Anderson

And, as before, it seems that Amtrak slaps a seat assignment in your hand without asking or letting you see the map.

(The fact that all seating is _de facto _1-1 for now does help with this, at least marginally. I still wish them nothing but the worst with this.)


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## MARC Rider

Anderson said:


> And, as before, it seems that Amtrak slaps a seat assignment in your hand without asking or letting you see the map.
> 
> (The fact that all seating is _de facto _1-1 for now does help with this, at least marginally. I still wish them nothing but the worst with this.)


It's really not so bad, although they do need to tweak the app a bit to make it easier to change your seat, if you desire it. When I used it last month, after you saw the seat map, it wasn't clear how to apply your desired change. Anyway, I would guess that the vast majority of Amtrak passengers are buying a train ticket to travel from point A to Point B, not to sit in a specific seat. Since they started seat assignments in Acela First, I've had to tolerate one or two less desirable seats, but usually it works out pretty well. In any event, whatever seat you sit in, the train arrives at its destination at the same time. I would guess that if a passenger wants a specific seat, they need to make their reservations early. If a passenger doesn't want seatmates, they need to travel at non-peak times. The more successful Amtrak is, the greater the chance that you're going to have a seatmate. And for those who want more passenger rail, that's a good thing.


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## Anderson

I mean, my main complaint down in Virginia has generally been this: After booking, and ONLY after booking, I can tell which seats have a seatmate *at some point in the trip*. However, for a NPN/NFK-WAS trip (one I have made many times) or even NPN-BAL, there is a MAJOR difference between "I have a seatmate all the way" and "I have a seatmate for 20 minutes between ALX and WAS" (or "I have a seatmate between WAS and BAL"). This gets particularly annoying because...well, I think I once got plopped next to another passenger in an otherwise-empty car (it was 5 of 62 seats taken in BC at that point; I think we got up to like 15 seats or 20 seats taken by the time we got to WAS) by the app.

On the Acela, the analogue would be a WAS-NYP ticket: Do I have that seatmate between WAS and NYP? WAS and BAL? NWK and NYP (because they're going NWK-PVD)? (For that matter, do I have an aisle seat where my window-seat seatmate changes three times? This isn't relevant _right now _but it applies under normal circumstances.)

As I think I mentioned before, this is a _major _difference versus almost all airlines (where even on a "tag" flight you'll have at most one occasion for a passenger shuffle...for example, FRA on the JFK-FRA-SIN flight Singapore runs, or MAN on IAH-MAN-SIN).

Basically, it's a bad implementation of a dubious change that I think a bunch of us expect to be used to jack us for more money down the road.


----------



## PeeweeTM

If you wanted to take a train from Germany Cologne to Frankfurt half an hour from taking the screenshot below, you can still reserve a seat in a ICE-train.




This train started in Bruxelles.


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## AmtrakBlue

Just got my modified eTickets for my Acela trips next week - showing car # and seat.


----------



## mfastx

So happy this is being implemented, this is long overdue. Nice for us to catch up to the rest of the civilized world where you can choose your seat on trains. 

Of course there are some difference between trains and planes regarding assigned seating. I wonder if people may be restricted on where they can sit based on their O/D pair. We'll see how it works out and how they can make sure that all seats are used in an efficient way.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

From an email I just received:



> There is no fee to reserve or change your seat and you may do so at any time, even when you are onboard and your train has departed.
> 
> To allow for physical distancing between customers, only window seats will be available to reserve. If you are traveling in a group of two or more, you will each be designated window seats in separate rows but may sit next to one another onboard if you choose.


----------



## Acela150

I was on 2154 today from PHL to RTE. At PHL they had markers on the ground indicating where each car would be. Each car has a logo next to the exterior doors and in the cars as well that shows the "car number".


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## KnightRail

Effort will be made to try to keep the Acela trainsets oriented the same with Car 1 on the South/West end closest to Washington and Car 6 on the North/East end closest to Boston ergo on an odd numbered train the first class *should* be at the front and on an even numbered train first class will *should* be at the rear.

Boston
CAR 6: Business Class
CAR 5: Business Class
CAR 4: Cafe
CAR 3: Business Class
CAR 2: Quiet Business Class
CAR 1: First Class
Washington


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## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> Effort will be made to try to keep the Acela trainsets oriented the same with Car 1 on the South/West end closest to Washington and Car 6 on the North/East end closest to Boston ergo on an odd numbered train the first class *should* be at the front and on an even numbered train first class will *should* be at the rear.



They've done a fairly good job at it recently and before the Covid-19 crisis at least from what I've seen.


----------



## Palmetto

This "fixed consist" idea implies that they will not loop the train in Southampton Yard [Boston]. The consist will have to go back to South Station as a "back-up" move, if you can call it that. When there's a cab at each end, there's really no backing up, I guess.


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## IndyLions

I have an upcoming trip BOS-NYP in Acela Business after helping my daughter move back to college in a couple of weeks.

I received an email (and a voice mail) regarding seat selection and took the opportunity to use the web site to select a seat. I found the user interface fairly reasonable.

As it turned out, they had pre-assigned me one of the 4 person table areas - and the other 3 seats were blocked out so no one else could select them. Since I will be working, there's no way I could really improve on that - so I didn't change my seat. I WAS surprised that they selected one of those 4 person areas for a single traveler. But that just shows how committed they are to the spacing on the Acela trains.


----------

