# Argue me out of a trip on the Canadian, OK?



## HenryK (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm thinking about taking the Mrs. on the following trip in mid-January:

Plane from Chicago to Toronto

Toronto to Vancouver on The Canadian

Vancouver to Seattle either train or bus

Seattle to Chicago on the Empire Builder

The rate of exchange of CAN$.0.75=US$1 is awfully good. A CAN$2400 ticket for two in an open section, upper and lower, runs about US$1850. The Seattle-Chicago run would be paid for with Guest Rewards points.

I rode the old Canadian in the 1980s before it was moved from the Canadian Pacific to the Canadian National. The Mrs. and I rode the latter-day Canadian four years ago, in October.

Is there a downside to this trip?


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## Kat314159 (Sep 1, 2015)

Ummm.... Frostbite? Sounds quite nice, I've been thinking of taking a similar trip myself.


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## pennyk (Sep 1, 2015)

Go For It!!!!!

I took the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver in December 2010 (I think). Although the days were short, the snow made everything beautiful. I am a life long Floridian, and the snow and cold made the adventure even more exciting. I got to experience "below zero" temperatures (in Winnipeg) for the first time ever.

I lucked into an "express deal" which was about a 75% discount, so the fare was terrific. Everything about the trip was great, even though there was a freight derailment on the tracks ahead of us and we had to sit for ten hours. Many of us occupied ourselves in the Park Car with yoga and wine.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 1, 2015)

No downsides Henry! Seeing Canada as a Winter Wonderland from a warm train, especially a Dome, is a real trip, as the saying goes!

But expect significant delays into Vancouver as Penny said, so I suggest booking a Hotel ( good deals in the Winter) and spending the night ( two even better) in, as you know, Beautiful,, Vancouver to de-compress before heading ON THE TRAIN, not the Bus, to Seattle!

The beds and linens will make you think you're sleeping in Buckingham Palace, and the Food,Service and Scenery will make you ask why it can't still be like this on Amtrak LD Trains??.!!!

This train should be on everyone's Bucket List, it would even convert the mica-managers in Congress to Rail fans if they rode it!


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2015)

I did a very similar trip this past winter, flying to Toronto, Canadian to Vancouver, Cascades to Seattle, Empire Builder to St. Paul, flying home, It was a great trip.

The only two things I'd "argue" are:

1) Give yourself plenty of time to make your connections. I spent a couple of nights in Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle and Minneapolis so that their was absolutely no stress in making my connections.

2) Reverse the direction! The Canadian is a better ride eastbound, IMHO, and you will 'step up' to the Canadian from the Builder, instead of 'coming down' on the Builder. The difference is jarring going from the Canadian to the Builder and as Don Phillips once said in TRAINS, "you will need to give yourself a little talking to when getting on Amtrak after riding the Canadian," and he wrote this BEFORE the slash and burn at Amtrak.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 1, 2015)

The only negatives I can think of are Canada's border crossing and The Canadian's boarding process. Once you're *in* Canada and once you're *on* the train everything is fine.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2015)

DA,

What is 'funny' about my experiences getting over the 'Great White North Wall' is that when I fly in and tell them my reason for being is to ride the rails, I don't have as many problems compared to when I'm on the train crossing the border and telling them the same thing. :blink: :blink: But, YMMV.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 1, 2015)

What is it about the Canadian boarding process that bothers you Chris? I know about your expierences with the less than friendly to you Border Guards!


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 1, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> What is it about the Canadian boarding process that bothers you Chris? I know about your expierences with the less than friendly to you Border Guards!


In my case the premium lounge in Vancouver was devoid of amenities and was used like a pen to hold all of the sleeper passengers back until the last of the coach passengers had boarded and then we had to rush to our rooms as the on board staff were closing the doors. I was moving much faster than the majority of sleeper passengers and even I had to ask the staff in my car to reopen the door they were closing in my face.

It was clear that this was no accident or oversight as the sour station staff stopped any sleeper passenger who tried to exit the pen ahead of time and waved off any questions. Can anyone explain why sleeper passengers need to wait for coach passengers before being allowed to board. Seems like they could all board at once to me. That way nobody has to wait and nobody has to rush. Instead VIA found a way to create a needlessly stressful situation for no obvious reason or benefit.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 1, 2015)

Wow, I've always been fortunate enough to have had pleasant, professional staff in the VIA Panorama Lounges, ( in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver) so perhaps you got Canada's version of the old Chicago Metro Lounge Crew?

Last time I rode from Vancouver ( last Feb) there was a Large Group of Railroaders from the US and Canada riding,including a Trains Magazine Crew, so the consist was more like the Summer one, ie 25 Cars etc) and the Lounge was crowded, but we are allowed priority boarding and even given wine and cheese in the Lounge instead of having to wait for the Park Car Reception! Lucky me I guess!??


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## zephyr17 (Sep 1, 2015)

I agree with the comment to reverse the trip. Going eastbound on the Canadian, you will see the Rockies, westbound if the train is late, and it almost always is, you will miss them, especially in January when the days are short. I've traveled both ways on it, and I highly recommend going eastbound, not westbound.

I've traveled on The Canadian from Vancouver a couple of times, and never had an issue or a problem with how the Panorama Lounge staff handles the deparature procedure. They do keep you back until they are ready for boarding, and if you are in traveling in the summer, the Lounge does get very crowded. When I traveled in March, no worries, there were only about 30 sleeper passengers.


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## XHRTSP (Sep 1, 2015)

HenryK said:


> Is there a downside to this trip?


You never offered to buy me a ticket so I can come with you two.


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## gaspeamtrak (Sep 1, 2015)

I would say going "eastbound" is preferred direction. BUT as far as know there is no "spare set" of equipment in Toronto, God help you if the "Canadian " is LATE into Toronto!

I don't think there are any more "Express Deals" there is something called "discount Tuesdays sales from about 07:30 till midnight and is available "online only"!!! The downside of this is you can't specify the sleeper you want!!! This means you maybe along way from the "rear dome".

Other than that go for it!!!

There is also a rumour going around that "The Canadian" maybe rerouted onto CP route from Toronto to Winnipeg which would be GREAT!    This may happen next year...


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 1, 2015)

Good point about Toronto. When #2 is really late, #1 can be really late departing Toronto. For example, due to a late arriving #2, this past Saturday's #1 left Toronto at 12:45 Sunday morning and didn't get to Washago until 5:37 in the morning! There are times when I've seen #1 delayed 24 hours when things get really late.

The winter consist is usually pretty short, and I would not worry too much about being far away from the Park Car, so if you can get a discounted fare, go for it!

BTW, the new Prestige Service won't be running in the winter, and that is now another plus for winter trips.

PS: And yeah... where is my ticket!


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## rrdude (Sep 1, 2015)

After the Canadian, I think the EB will be the only "Downside"


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## HenryK (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm taking the advice to go west to east and ride the Builder first. (Flying back to Chicago from Toronto is unavoidable.) Also there will be an overnight in a Seattle hotel and one in Toronto. Many thanks to all.


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## Kat314159 (Sep 2, 2015)

You could take VIA Toronto to Windsor, take the tunnel bus to Detroit and then Wolverine back from there but that's an extra day of travel to avoid maybe an hour flight?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 2, 2015)

Excellent plan Henry!

The Canadian is sure to be late into Toronto, and after almost a week on the train, a layover in Toronto will be welcome.

I'd take the Cascades ( early am)to Vancouver from SEA as opposed to the later bus.

This gives y'all a day to ride the Sky Train ( Senior Day Pass),sight see, and have Lunch and Dinner in a very foody city! The friendly VIA agent @ Pacific Central Station will keep your luggage for free.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 2, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> The friendly VIA agent @ Pacific Central Station will keep your luggage for free.


Yeah, but what if you want it back again? :lol:


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## zephyr17 (Sep 2, 2015)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Good point about Toronto. When #2 is really late, #1 can be really late departing Toronto. For example, due to a late arriving #2, this past Saturday's #1 left Toronto at 12:45 Sunday morning and didn't get to Washago until 5:37 in the morning! There are times when I've seen #1 delayed 24 hours when things get really late.
> 
> The winter consist is usually pretty short, and I would not worry too much about being far away from the Park Car, so if you can get a discounted fare, go for it!
> 
> ...


I was checking VIA's website planning for another possible trip this March for myself, and the Prestige accomodations are in inventory. When I read this, March could be considered "shoulder" so I checked January just for the heck of it, and there are Prestige accomodations in inventory then, too. Maybe it's that they aren't running the Prestige Chateau in the winter, but they are still running the Prestige Park car and are selling the acommodations in that.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 2, 2015)

zephyr17,

This is news to me, as I remember that there was controversy over the fact that just plain ol' sleeping car passengers are getting booted from the Park Car from time to time so that the (I'll type this with a snotty, nose in the air attitude  ) "_PRESTIGE CLASS" _ have time in the Park Car without those of us in _'the unwashed masses_.' My understanding was that this would not be the case in winter, but I guess that was only last winter, as on reading your post I called VIA and was told that "_PRESTIGE CLASS_" hboy: is running all winter and with Chateau cars. 

Thanks for ruining my day! 

Seriously, I'm bummed to find this out. The news and trends for LD sleeping car passengers just keeps on getting better and better. :angry2:


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## jebr (Sep 2, 2015)

If it helps, I did not have that experience when I took the Canadian in May. Had a lower berth and could walk back to the Park Car whenever I desired and never got booted out.

That being said, I always stayed in the lower "bullet lounge" type area. It was always full in the dome, but the bullet lounge area was rarely completely full.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks jebr! :hi:

It does help.

Maybe I will need to book a trip this winter and find out myself!


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## Palmetto (Sep 4, 2015)

And if the eastbound arrival is very late--which is often the case--the westbound doesn't get out of the station sometimes until 1 or 2 in the morning.

I did the eastbound in early June and we arrive in Toronto 8 1/2 hours late. I figured this might happen, pre-booked myself at the Best Western at the airport, and flew home the next morning. Much less stressful!


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## HenryK (Sep 6, 2015)

I emailed VIA Customer Relations yesterday and asked if ordinary Sleeper Plus passengers ever got booted out of the Park car to give Prestige class passengers more room to play. The response was that the Park car is for ALL sleeping car passengers but if it got crowded and other sleeper passengers were waiting to use the Park car, the staff might ask people to move. Doesn't seem that Prestige passengers get dibs over everybody else.

I doubt this musical-chairs thing will happen with the short consists in January.


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## HenryK (Sep 6, 2015)

Kat, thanks for the suggestion to take VIA Toronto-Windsor, bus or cab to Detroit, then Amtrak Detroit-Chicago. I have thought about that for quite some time, and I know it's doable, but on this trip I will be taking along not only the Mrs. but also possibly a new service dog. That'd be a handful. Better to swallow hard and fly Toronto-Chicago instead.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 6, 2015)

Good news about the Park Car Henry! Thanks for posting!

And that's a prudent choice to not do the Toronto-Windsor-Detroit-CHI shuffle with the Ms. and your new best friend!


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 6, 2015)

That is good news about the Park Car. It was certainly something that had 'concerned' folks. VIA had originally said that certain events in the Park Car were going to be for Prestige Class only, but it seems they backed off on that threat.

BTW, #1 left Toronto at 9:00 this morning - 10 hours late! -after #2 arrived at 8:30 PM yesterday, 11 hours late!


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## HenryK (Oct 10, 2015)

Pulled the plug on the tickets—right now, through Oct. 16, VIA is offering 25 per cent off the standard Sleeper Plus class fare.

Here is how it broke down (figures rounded off)

Standard Sleeper Plus class for 2 seniors: $3005 CAN

Applying 25 per cent discount: $2320 CAN

Applying CAN to U.S. rate of exchange of 77 cents CAN$=US$1: $1750 US.

I bought when the rate was CAN $0.75 = US$1. The rate of exchange has gone up slightly to CAN $0.77.

This means the cost has gone from Godawful Expensive to Not Too Bad.

A comparable long-distance trip in a bedroom on the Empire Bulider (3 1/2 days, 4 nights, a round trip) on the same days would cost $2015 if booked now.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 10, 2015)

Nice snag Henry! Look forward to your trip report! We're envious!


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## HenryK (Oct 11, 2015)

We're in Car 210. Is that the first sleeper after the dining car in a short winter Canadian consist?


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