# AmSnag Oddity/Status



## niemi24s (Jan 29, 2020)

While doing AmSnag searches for TE trips from CHI to TUS over the past several days, the search occasionally returned results for all consecutive days in the search just as if the SAS to TUS leg on the SL was a daily train:



But clicking on the dates (days) when the train _doesn't_ run from CHI to TUS the Amtrak website still reports service not available on those days.

Then, after a while, AmSnag will go back to normal and give results for only the correct dates (days). When I first saw this seemingly daily train result I started to hyperventilate but soon figured out it was just a glitch in something - like a square electron in Paul's server.


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## the_traveler (Jan 30, 2020)

Maybe the “odd” days was via a connection at LAX to the eastbound SL from the SWC?


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## niemi24s (Jan 30, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> Maybe the “odd” days was via a connection at LAX to the eastbound SL from the SWC?


I don't think so for two reasons. The connection choice page display after the search is completed just shows 21 - 1 and 421 for choices. And when choosing 421 on that page, the fares displayed on the odd/erroneous departure days from CHI are valid fares for 421 from CHI to TUS and not any different ones for a connection at LAX.

[Image in Post #1 modified with odd/erroneous dates shaded in red.]

I recall noticing the time for AmSnag to complete the fare search with odd/erroneous data was much, _much_ longer than normal. Excruciatingly slow.


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## niemi24s (Jan 30, 2020)

Just discovered there are two different URL's for AmSnag:

• The slow one providing the odd/erroneous data is https://biketrain.net/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php
• The faster unsecure one providing correct data is http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php


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## Barb Stout (Mar 19, 2020)

I had problems for several days in a row trying to use the 1st Amsnag you listed for dates in December 2020 and January 2021. It would inform me that there were no train services on day 7 or 12 or 3 etc on daily trains. Searched the this forum for a possible answer and found this, so thanks! The 2nd link is so much faster and didn't say there were no train services on day x.


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## niemi24s (Mar 19, 2020)

I suspect the the second link given in Post #4 (. . . AmSnag Verson 2.02 . . .) is nothing more than the latest version of AmSnag. I've simply deleted the first one given as well as one other from a few years ago.

However, I'm not sure whether the Fare Watch feature of the _x10.mx_ AmSnag is still in operation. Remember its author saying he'd lost interest in keeping it running a year or so ago. 

Q: Anybody know if AmSnags Fare Watch feature still works?


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## willem (Mar 20, 2020)

niemi24s said:


> Q: Anybody know if AmSnags Fare Watch feature still works?



A few months ago, I went to the Fare Watch page and clicked on something that caused it to update. Immediately, I received email messages with new fare information. I concluded that automatic checking and notification no longer works.


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## niemi24s (Mar 20, 2020)

willem said:


> A few months ago, I went to the Fare Watch page and clicked on something that caused it to update. Immediately, I received email messages with new fare information. I concluded that automatic checking and notification no longer works.


Thanks. If it still compiles change data for a trip and makes it available upon request, then it still has a _little_ usefulness - for me a t least.


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## PaulM (Mar 23, 2020)

I don't remember saying that I lost interest in keeping Amsnag running a year or so ago. I do remember saying I had lost interest in following Amtrak because of all the depressing changes.

I've had noticed that AmSnag Verson 2.02 was much slower than http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php. I now see that the former has become extremely erratic. But no, the latter is not a later version. It is simply a backup that I used if the primary hosting service were to go down. The code should be the same. When I get some time I will try to find out what is going on. Right now I am in the midst of automating our church's food pantry which serves over 1000 households. They had been managing it with spread sheets, a fate worse than death.

Regarding the original post, the backup version does right by the Chicago-Tuscon query.

Regarding the fare watch program, a while back the email feature started spamming users; and I couldn't determine the cause. So I scratched the email feature. Instead, I wrote a script that checks fares and displays an alert if a price has dropped. The script is automatically triggered by the Windows task scheduler. If anyone is interested in the details, please PM me.


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## tricia (Mar 23, 2020)

PaulM said:


> I don't remember saying that I lost interest in keeping Amsnag running a year or so ago. I do remember saying I had lost interest in following Amtrak because of all the depressing changes.
> 
> I've had noticed that AmSnag Verson 2.02 was much slower than http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php. I now see that the former has become extremely erratic. But no, the latter is not a later version. It is simply a backup that I used if the primary hosting service were to go down. The code should be the same. When I get some time I will try to find out what is going on. Right now I am in the midst of automating our church's food pantry which serves over 1000 households. They had been managing it with spread sheets, a fate worse than death.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the work you do on Amsnag, PaulM. It's such a huge help to so many people.


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## Barb Stout (Mar 23, 2020)

PaulM said:


> I've had noticed that AmSnag Verson 2.02 was much slower than http://biketrain.x10.mx/amsnag2.0/amSnag.php. I now see that the former has become extremely erratic. But no, the latter is not a later version. It is simply a backup that I used if the primary hosting service were to go down. The code should be the same. When I get some time I will try to find out what is going on. Right now I am in the midst of automating our church's food pantry which serves over 1000 households. They had been managing it with spread sheets, a fate worse than death.


Church food pantry effectiveness is definitely more important than Amsnag at this time. Thank you for both.


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## PaulM (Mar 24, 2020)

The error message you may have seen using the original site was due to the fact that the fare page was not retrieved correctly for all of the dates. So I've redirected Amsnag to AmSnag Verson 2.02. Hopefully, the problem doesn't reoccur.


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## niemi24s (Mar 24, 2020)

Thanks Paul. I'm sure all of us here appreciate your work on AmSnag. I think it's the bee's knees!


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## niemi24s (Mar 25, 2020)

FWIW, those making 30 day searches using AmSnag are cautioned that (at the present time for the CZ, SWC and CONO) the search may not include fares for all 30 days. I've noticed as many as 4 days missing but those dates are still bookable using the Amtrak website. Don't know if this occurs with searches of less than 30 days or other routes. I did notice that the number of missing days can change with time when making repetitive searches 5 to 10 minutes apart using the same search parameters.

If your search for low bucket fares comes up empty, look for missing dates on the AmSnag display and check Amtrak. There may be a low bucket fare lurking that doesn't appear in your AmSnag search. It's easy to see if there's one missing in a short search, but not so easy in a max 30 day search.


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## PaulM (Mar 27, 2020)

niemi24s said:


> FWIW, those making 30 day searches using AmSnag are cautioned that (at the present time for the CZ, SWC and CONO) the search may not include fares for all 30 days. I've noticed as many as 4 days missing but those dates are still bookable using the Amtrak website. Don't know if this occurs with searches of less than 30 days or other routes. I did notice that the number of missing days can change with time when making repetitive searches 5 to 10 minutes apart using the same search parameters.



As I mentioned a few post above, the original version was not retrieving the correct fare page for random dates. Originally, I just threw out an error message and quit. Recently, when the problem was called to my attention, I changed it to bypass the bad date. 

I now see the backup version is doing the same thing - not surprising since it's the same code producing the same Amtrak URL. I tried CHI-DEN for 12 days and 2 days were missing. I tried again and only 1 was missing. Random errors like this are hard to track down, especially for an amateur like me. But I'll keep at it


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## niemi24s (Mar 27, 2020)

Well, don't lose any sleep over it Paul. The important thing is knowing that some days _may_ be missing and if so check with Arrow to see what the missing fares are. That's still much, much easier than making 30 consecutive dummy bookings on Arrow.

After discovering this the other day, I made a paper "ruler" marked from 0 to 30 to the scale of my PC display. Only takes a few seconds to measure the number of days displayed - much easier than counting them in 1, 2, 3, . . fashion.

Best regards.


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## PaulM (Mar 28, 2020)

Fixed, hopefully for a while. As always, the free QC testing is appreciated


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## niemi24s (Mar 28, 2020)

Did eight different 30 day searches. Works slicker'n snail snot! Thanx Paul!!


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## Ferroequinologist (Aug 28, 2020)

I cannot get Amsnag to work lately. Has anyone else been having problems?


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## Palmetto (Aug 28, 2020)

There are posts on another thread from folks having the same problem.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 28, 2020)

Ferroequinologist said:


> I cannot get Amsnag to work lately. Has anyone else been having problems?


Yes, been noticing that too for the past week.


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## PaulM (Aug 28, 2020)

I noticed that what I referred to as the backup was unable to retrieve fares; but at least the slower, original one was working. But now it hanging.

I have time; and I will see if I can figure out the problem. Recently Amtrak's fair finder webpage was changed, the second time during amsnag's lifetime (I recall several AU threads complaining about it). As I mentioned, the original version was still working for a while; and if you clicked through to Amtrak, you got the prior version's page with the search results.

It's possible that Amtrak pulled down the prior version, which would kill amsnag and require starting from scratch.


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## niemi24s (Aug 28, 2020)

PaulM said:


> It's possible that Amtrak pulled down the prior version, which would kill amsnag and require starting from scratch.


I, for one, am hoping for a simple fix. But if it's really a goner, many thanks for all your work over the years.


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## Locobill (Sep 2, 2020)

I went to look up pricing on Amsnag last night and I got a page that said it’s under construction?! What happened to Amsnag?


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## tricia (Sep 2, 2020)

IIRC, it stopped working when Amtrak implemented its 3-a-week scheduling, due to start in October. I think it's "under construction" to make it work with the consequent revisions to Amtrak's reservations system.

Amsnag is a HUGE help to many of us that takes a lot of work to keep up and running--and I for one sure appreciate that.  Hope we'll see it again soon.


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## joelkfla (Sep 2, 2020)

See here ==> AmSnag Oddity

MODERATOR NOTE: the two threads were merged


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## justinslot (Sep 3, 2020)

Just logged in here to see if this had been noticed yet, and it has.

Curious if there is that much of a price difference between days in the COVID era...I just tried a weeks worth of ORL->PHL and PHL->ORL and they were all the same price, both directions.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 3, 2020)

I hope the owner of Amsnag is ok and that the message on the site is not an ominous sign that he is not ok.


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## niemi24s (Sep 3, 2020)

Keep on looking and let us know if you find any differences (other than the customary 20% drop in Coach fares from low bucket to Saver at the fortnight point).


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## John Bobinyec (Sep 3, 2020)

The owner of Amsnag is fine. He's working through some technical difficulties right now.

jb


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 3, 2020)

John Bobinyec said:


> The owner of Amsnag is fine. He's working through some technical difficulties right now.
> 
> jb


Good to hear - that he's fine, not that he's having technical difficulties.


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## PaulM (Sep 7, 2020)

John Bobinyec said:


> The owner of Amsnag is fine. He's working through some technical difficulties right now.
> 
> jb


I was about to jump in; but you beat me to it. Whether I find a solution is questionable at this time.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 7, 2020)

PaulM said:


> I was about to jump in; but you beat me to it. Whether I find a solution is questionable at this time.


We always appreciate what you do for us on AU Paul !


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## BLNT (Sep 13, 2020)

Best of luck !!


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## piedpiper (Sep 22, 2020)

Has Amsnag been kicked off of MacOS?? I keep geeting URL not found


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## me_little_me (Sep 22, 2020)

piedpiper said:


> Has Amsnag been kicked off of MacOS?? I keep geeting URL not found


Apple has no control of what sites one visits when using a browser on any of their devices. No site can be "kicked off" MacOS.


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## Batavian (Oct 24, 2020)

Has anyone had any luck on getting the desktop version to work?


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 24, 2020)

Batavian said:


> Has anyone had any luck on getting the desktop version to work?


Read post #32 above


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## acelafan (Oct 25, 2020)

Batavian said:


> Has anyone had any luck on getting the desktop version to work?


I looked into this, too, and it's a challenge. I made some coding progress but it wasn't really clear it would work reliably so I had to put it down for now. The Amtrak website essentially does a very effective job of blocking automated queries.


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## niemi24s (Oct 25, 2020)

I've a hunch Amtrak is hurting itself by making it so hard to shop for low fares. Southwest Airlines sort of has its own AmSnag built in and it only takes about six seconds and two clicks to find the lowest fare for the next day:


And half of that time is taken up by switching the Sort By from Departure Time over to Price. But if one could maintain that pace of 6 seconds/day, it would take 3 minutes to scour the Southwest site for 30 days worth of fares. 

While this is certainly not as convenient nor as fast as AmSnag was, methinks it's a lot faster than plodding through 30 searches using Arrow. It takes me about 15 seconds to find the next days fares using Arrow and a few more seconds to see the prices for the other sleepers not initially displayed for a total of maybe 9 minutes to find 30 days worth of fares.

I wonder how badly Southwest business is hurt by making it so easy to search for low fares?


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## me_little_me (Oct 25, 2020)

niemi24s said:


> I wonder how badly Southwest business is hurt by making it so easy to search for low fares?


No harder than, say, Marriott, for its hotels where you can not only select a discount (e.g. AAA, Senior) but show all the days of any month in a few seconds for any hotel.


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## WWW (Oct 26, 2020)

If you have been around a while and traveled by air - the gem was the OFFICIAL AIRLINE GUIDE (OAG) a telephone directory size volume
with every possible connection AND FARE between two north american points. Return with us now to the thrilling days of yesteryear the
method today is computer mayhem to the "Nth" degree trying to replicate the same !


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## Hans627 (Nov 5, 2020)

Any updates on the status of AmSnag.

Thanks!


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## John Bobinyec (Nov 5, 2020)

Some of us have pitched in to help Paul with this - to no avail.

jb


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## fixj (Nov 27, 2020)

Is there any hope that Amsnag will return someday. It was such a great tool and I really miss it.


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## dlagrua (Jan 3, 2021)

Tried using Amsnag today and the links that I had on Amsnag 2.0 were dead. Anyone have success using it?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 3, 2021)

It went "down" when the schedules were change to tri-weekly.

Read post #32 above


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## dlagrua (Jan 4, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It went "down" when the schedules were change to tri-weekly.
> 
> Read post #32 above


Thank you. I do not go on this site daily but I now understand the issue. Amnag really helped many plan trips and its unfortunate that such a valuable resource is missing.


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## RickIronton (Jan 13, 2021)

What a shame.
Here's hoping Amsnag can adjust the algorithm and, again, offer this valuable service.


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## acelafan (Jan 13, 2021)

Hello, it's not the algorithm. Amtrak makes it very difficult to scrape their website using automated software. We have tried multiple ways of extracting the fare info in a reliable and consistent manner, which has not worked despite many hours of trying. Maybe someone should write Congress and ask Amtrak to implement a calendar view of various fares by date?


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## RickIronton (Feb 19, 2021)

Here it is Feb 19th and still no luck with Amsnag,.... any suggestions?


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## IndyLions (Feb 19, 2021)

The only suggestion I have is determination, perseverance and several hours of free time on the standard Amtrak site with a spreadsheet. Of course, you would have to do that every single day – which sounds like a nightmare.

With the current reduced schedule, the first step is to figure out which days are even possible for you to get the trains that you need. If you’re making a connection, the number of days that will work will probably go down significantly.

In my case, I was looking for a round trip itinerary from the Midwest to Florida at some point during the month of March. After about 75 minutes on Amtrak.com, I figured out that there were exactly 4 days southbound, and four days northbound that would work at all.

That resulted in 4 potential round trip itineraries to compare. Because March is coming up, there wasn’t a whole lot of difference in pricing between the four. So I ended up picking out the one that was a little bit cheaper but by far the most convenient date wise.

I don’t know the specific itinerary you are looking for nor the timeframe in which you’d like to travel. But unfortunately there’s not a shortcut that I can offer you. Amsnag was a terrific tool. Our only hope is that Amtrak will reverse course on their anti-scraping efforts, or bring their website into modern times with a useful search tool for travelers with flexibility looking for lower fares.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 19, 2021)

RickIronton said:


> Here it is Feb 19th and still no luck with Amsnag,.... any suggestions?


As it has been stated earlier in the thread, the programmers have unable to get the data from Amtrak since the routes went to 3 days a week. Everyone is hopeful that it will be back up and running when full service is reinstated.


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## Sidney (Feb 19, 2021)

I know the low buckets on the routes I normally take. I have never paid more than low bucket. Being retired,I have the luxury of choosing my dates. If there are no low bucket fares on the train I want I'll check other dates and trains
Booked 421 for May Chi-Lax. It is now well over $1000 for a senior roomette for one.


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## niemi24s (Feb 19, 2021)

Just in case you didn't know, the Roomette buckets on 421 between CHI and LAX for one adult are $623, 766, 899, 1042 and 1185. With the senior discount, they'd be $23.20 less. Fares are the same on the SWC.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 3, 2021)

PaulM said:


> I was about to jump in; but you beat me to it. Whether I find a solution is questionable at this time.


Amsnag was an incredibly useful tool that saved money and helped further or settle fare related discussions. Are there any potential avenues for future solutions? Would it make sense to start a crowd funding option? I'd be happy to make the first donation.


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## Railspike (May 3, 2021)

Any rumblings that AmSnag might return when daily service returns?


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## niemi24s (May 3, 2021)

None that I've heard.


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## zephyr17 (May 3, 2021)

While I am not, and I don't know, the developer, my opinion is that the latest redesign of the Amtrak website makes Amsnag's screen(HTML) scraping method of collecting the data very challenging. I am not optimistic Ansnag will return, unless Amtrak exposes a public or semi-public API which is extremely doubtful. I'd expect a multi day fare search tool from Amtrak itself, like many airlines have, before a public API.

Many thanks to the developer for a very useful too while it lasted.


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## acelafan (May 3, 2021)

I think this is just a tough nut to crack - I do know the data can almost certainly be gathered since it appears in the web browser, but making it automated, reliable and decently fast is another matter. 

Too bad Amtrak just won't change their web display to show a fare calendar view like the airlines. It might actually work to their advantage.


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## PaTrainFan (May 3, 2021)

acelafan said:


> I think this is just a tough nut to crack - I do know the data can almost certainly be gathered since it appears in the web browser, but making it automated, reliable and decently fast is another matter.
> 
> Too bad Amtrak just won't change their web display to show a fare calendar view like the airlines. It might actually work to their advantage.



I can't recall where I read it now, but I know I saw somewhere in either the 5 year plan or the budget request that Amtrak has aspirations to bulk up the online fare and reservations systems to allow a seven day window in searches.


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## Bob Dylan (May 3, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> While I am not, and I don't know, the developer, my opinion is that the latest redesign of the Amtrak website makes Amsnag's screen(HTML) scraping method of collecting the data very challenging. I am not optimistic Ansnag will return, unless Amtrak exposes a public or semi-public API which is extremely doubtful. I'd expect a multi day fare search tool from Amtrak itself, like many airlines have, before a public API.
> 
> Many thanks to the developer for a very useful too while it lasted.


One of our Members was the Major Figure behind this great tool!


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## PaulM (May 3, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> While I am not, and I don't know, the developer, my opinion is that the latest redesign of the Amtrak website makes Amsnag's screen(HTML) scraping method of collecting the data very challenging.


Yes, I'm certain it was the redesign of the website which, coincidentally or not, happened at the same time as the three day a week, that caused the program to fail. So don't hope for good news if and when they go back to daily.

The first version of the fare page that I worked with contained the information needed in plain old text; so it was possible to scrape. The second version a few years later contained the information in javascript functions and was much more complicated; but I was able to scrape it with the help of an AUer. But latest version is above my pay grade. Searching the result page, I can't find the train number, train name, coach price, or departing or arriving station.


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## zephyr17 (May 3, 2021)

Agreed. For many years the website just presented pretty static HTML in response to answered prompts. Now it appears to have gone to an AJAX style where much more of the process is done in the browser. As a result, it is more interactive and has more navigation paths. The increase in options and paths exponentially increases the complexity of creating a program that essentially has to imitate a human user, recursively. Let alone parsing the data results Also, the data presented is more opaque, even to human users. Just try and find the breakout between rail fare and accommodation charge now. It can be done, but it isn't easy.

That and supposedly they've changed their security so it is looking for rapid repeated queries, which makes sense from a security standpoint, but also adds to Amsnag's woes.


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## railiner (May 4, 2021)

The whole thing makes me wonder if Amsnag "got in someone's craw" at Amtrak, and they purposely took steps to thwart its use.
As #acelafan noted, it might even work to Amtrak's advantage to have a fare calendar available...


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## Railspike (May 4, 2021)

PaTrainFan said:


> I can't recall where I read it now, but I know I saw somewhere in either the 5 year plan or the budget request that Amtrak has aspirations to bulk up the online fare and reservations systems to allow a seven day window in searches.



A seven-day window doesn't do much for long-term planning (i.e. for low fares). Maybe that's their goal.


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## AmtrakBlue (May 4, 2021)

Railspike said:


> A seven-day window doesn't do much for long-term planning (i.e. for low fares). Maybe that's their goal.


Maybe it’s 7 days based on the date you provide.


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## PaTrainFan (May 4, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Maybe it’s 7 days based on the date you provide.



That was my interpretation.


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## PaTrainFan (May 4, 2021)

From the Five Year Plan:

The next major enhancement, slated for release in early 2021, expands on the existing search result experience by presenting a seven-day calendar of available fares: those of the requested date as well as the lowest fare up to three days prior and three days forward. In addition to
offering customers more—and potentially lower—fare options with a single search, this solution will provide a better path for long distance customers to find available travel dates on trains operating less than daily.


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## bryher (Jul 18, 2021)

I found this thread by Googling "biketrain amsnag not working". First Paul nice to meet you- you're a bit of a legend with me and my son. We love(ed) your site. 

My son and I are also teaching ourselves html, css and Java. I'm wondering if this might be a good "final project" to work towards? Sounds like it's may be possible just really tedious to building something to scrape the current amtrak site? If so maybe we'll give it a go.


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## acelafan (Jul 19, 2021)

bryher said:


> I found this thread by Googling "biketrain amsnag not working". First Paul nice to meet you- you're a bit of a legend with me and my son. We love(ed) your site.
> 
> My son and I are also teaching ourselves html, css and Java. I'm wondering if this might be a good "final project" to work towards? Sounds like it's may be possible just really tedious to building something to scrape the current amtrak site? If so maybe we'll give it a go.


If you can get it going, all power to you! It would be great if you can play around with it and get it working again.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 19, 2021)

acelafan said:


> If you can get it going, all power to you! It would be great if you can play around with it and get it working again.


AUs own Paul M., who developed Amsnag, has pretty much indicated that this is a Cluster Flub that in reality isn't possible, thanks to Amtraks "Crack" IT system changes.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 19, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> AUs own Paul M., who developed Amsnag, has pretty much indicated that this is a Cluster Flub that in reality isn't possible, thanks to Amtraks "Crack" IT system changes.


 I don't think enough investigatory research has been done to establish the potential suitability of alternative mechanisms. It sounds like future solutions will be slower and more tedious thanks to Amtrak's increasingly clumsy website but implying a usable solution is nearly impossible seems premature at this point.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 19, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I don't think enough investigatory research has been done to establish the potential suitability of alternative mechanisms. It sounds like future solutions will be slower and more tedious thanks to Amtrak's increasingly clumsy website but implying a usable solution is nearly impossible seems premature at this point.


Thanks for the update from a Pro Chris!

This Luddite knows nothing about IT stuff, just that the Wizards that do it get the Big Bucks!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 19, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> AUs own Paul M., who developed Amsnag, has pretty much indicated that this is a Cluster Flub that in reality isn't possible, thanks to Amtraks "Crack" IT system changes.


And acelafan is the one who developed the status map/archive websites which use Amtrak data. He has also tried to help Paul with Amsnag. He’s well aware of the issues.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 19, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> And acelafan is the one who developed the status map/archive websites which use Amtrak data. He has also tried to help Paul with Amsnag. He’s well aware of the issues.


Thanks Betty, he deserves recognition too!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 19, 2021)

The main problem with creating a new solution is that Amtrak has a track record of repeatedly invalidating prior efforts and employing sledgehammer request filtering. In a rational world Amtrak would provide live pricing data to search engines and publish an approved API for properly configured hobbyist solutions.


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## me_little_me (Jul 19, 2021)

Amtrak has made it hard even for those of us who are manually looking for a trip. Here's my experience:

Select a train between two points on a specific date. Select a room. See price. Write it down. Then use the Amtrak "Back" button. Change the date then repeat. Do this about 6 times (as if you are trying to find a date with lowest price). At around the 6th time, the page just freezes and you have to sit and wait a few minutes until it allows you to continue. This is DELIBERATE. To prove it, go into a private window or tab which will have no knowledge of previous attempts and do the same search for the same date as the one that froze. It gives you an instant response.


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## acelafan (Jul 20, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> Amtrak has made it hard even for those of us who are manually looking for a trip. Here's my experience:
> 
> Select a train between two points on a specific date. Select a room. See price. Write it down. Then use the Amtrak "Back" button. Change the date then repeat. Do this about 6 times (as if you are trying to find a date with lowest price). At around the 6th time, the page just freezes and you have to sit and wait a few minutes until it allows you to continue. This is DELIBERATE. To prove it, go into a private window or tab which will have no knowledge of previous attempts and do the same search for the same date as the one that froze. It gives you an instant response.


Correct. That is the problem I kept running into with mechanized searches. I also worked with Dixieland's status maps expert and we both got blocked or stumped with this effort.


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## me_little_me (Jul 21, 2021)

acelafan said:


> Correct. That is the problem I kept running into with mechanized searches. I also worked with Dixieland's status maps expert and we both got blocked or stumped with this effort.


So would it be possible to remove the information (i.e. cookies) that Amtrak apparently replies on to see that multiple requests have already come from that site? In a Firefox browser, I simply use a different private tab to hide those cookies or I manually clear them. Either way means I have to initiate a new browser connection i.e. put in cities, dates, passenger number and type, etc. when doing so but this can be automated.


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## acelafan (Jul 21, 2021)

I'm sure with enough time on someone's hands it could be done, and work reliably, for a period of time. I just have other things I want to do with my free time, like ride my Canyon road bike. 

Once it's working, Amtrak will come along and change something to break it once again. They have more resources to obfuscate the data than we (probably) have to keep working around it. 

This is just my opinion of course. Anyone is welcome to take a crack at it. Python with a selenium toolkit is probably the way to go.


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## bryher (Jul 21, 2021)

Ok good feedback. Much more intimidating than I had hoped but am still going to give it a try. I'm amazed they block after 6 attempts or so. I'm not convinced they have their act together enough to worry about the Amsnag user base. It could simply be anti spam protection. All those hits to their server takes a toll. I could see them employing something to stop many hits over a certain period of time.


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## neroden (Jul 21, 2021)

I have spoken to a few people inside Amtrak -- not the *right* people, but it's a start -- about how Amtrak's IT has a record of being hostile to customers, and using the deliberate obstruction of third-party tools as an example. I think the marketing department may care about this, even if IT doesn't.


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## F900ElCapitan (Jul 22, 2021)

I’ve also seen the locking up issue. What I found is when the search locks up, re-enter both origination and destination, then hit the pull down for the number of pax and the description (Adult, Senior, etc.) don’t change anything but hit DONE at the bottom of the tab, then re-select the same date and do the search again. This works most of the time. If not, clear your history/cookies for the last hour, start from the home page, and try it again. This tactic seems to work pretty well for me on an iPad.
Good luck.


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## me_little_me (Jul 22, 2021)

bryher said:


> Ok good feedback. Much more intimidating than I had hoped but am still going to give it a try. I'm amazed they block after 6 attempts or so. I'm not convinced they have their act together enough to worry about the Amsnag user base. It could simply be anti spam protection. All those hits to their server takes a toll. I could see them employing something to stop many hits over a certain period of time.


To make it clear, they didn't actually block - they just froze the page partially loaded. It cleared up in a few minutes but who is going to wait? I did because I knew to open another private tab and continued doing more searches. By that time, the original tab finished the page load.

This was not a one-time thing but if someone else wants to try it, just repeatedly do a search, select a room (but don't have to hit "add to cart") and look at price, then use Back button to change date and do the same thing over and over.


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