# First time traveler:Penn Station Qs



## Beatlover (Mar 30, 2008)

Hello!

I am going to be taking the train by myself in the middle of April from Fredericksburg, VA to Albany, NY. As you all probably know this requires me to have a layover in Penn Station in NYC. I have never traveled on my own before :unsure: (I’m a 19 year old female) and I have never been on a train so I am very nervous. However, most of my nervousness is surrounding the time I have to spend in Penn Station.

1.How safe is it for me to be at this station by myself, or I guess traveling by train by myself in general?

2.Is Penn Station it fairly easy to navigate?

3.Are the Quik-Trak kiosks in the Amtrak area of the station or will I have to go looking for them?

4.When I get off my train at Penn Station to wait for my connecting train do I stay in the same area of the station?

I know Penn Station is rather large and more than one story and I really just want to give myself peace of mind by knowing what to expect. So ANY info that you can give me about Penn Station (even if I didn’t ask the specific question) would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much!


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## darien-l (Mar 30, 2008)

Personally, Penn Station is probably my least favorite place in the entire Amtrak system. It's basically a large ugly concrete box that's crowded, noisy, and hard to navigate. It's now well-policed and reasonably safe, but you may encounter panhandlers (don't fall for the "I have starving children at home" pitch!) and other questionable individuals. If you're there during rush hours on weekdays, the place is a total madhouse. It's somewhat more relaxed on evenings and weekends, although it can get a bit sketchy late in the evening. In any case, I generally wouldn't spend any more time in Penn Station than I have to. If your layover is longer than two hours, my suggestion would be to go out and explore the city instead of hanging around the station. The regular (non-club, non-Acela) waiting area is not that great. The boarding procedure at Penn Station is usually something like this: hundreds of people crowd into the huge central hall, intently watching the giant screen above their heads. As soon as the track number is announced (often only 10 minutes before departure or so), there is a massive stampede down to the platform. As my parents can attest, missing a train at Penn Station is easy if you're not paying attention.

The Quik-Trak kiosks are indeed in the Amtrak area of the station, near the ticket counters.

Some may feel that I'm being too negative about Penn Station, but it's probably best if you're prepared for possible unpleasantness there. The rest of your trip should be great, though - the stretch between New York and Albany is very scenic, and trains between your stations have an excellent on-time record. Trains themselves are very, very safe, so you shouldn't have any problems there. Have a great trip!


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## AlanB (Mar 30, 2008)

You should be safe in Penn station, just make sure that you pay attention to your luggage and your surroundings. I would suggest making sure that you go to the bathroom on the train though, prior to arrival into NY. The train's bathroom may not be very exciting by that time, but the odds are that it will still be better than the public bathroom in Penn. And your luggage can become a target in the bathroom if you're not careful.

Penn is unfortunately difficult to navigate to those who have never been there. And upon arrival there is simply no easy way for you to know if you're going up the escalator to the upper Amtrak/NJT level or to the lower Long Island RR level. But if you see only signs for the LIRR, then you do need to go up one more level to reach the Amtrak level.

There are Quik-Trak machines on either side of the waiting areas. And if your layover is more than a hour, I would recommend using the waiting area. It's still better than standing in the main hall.

You are however free to walk around the station, get food, visit the city if you've got time. Just make sure to be back in the main hall at least 15 minutes prior to the departure time. Trains are never announced more than 10 minutes before departure, but you don't want to miscalculate either.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm a little confused about why you would need the Quik-Trak kiosks in Penn Station. When I've booked a round trip and used a Quik-Trak machine to print my tickets, the machine prints out all the tickets for the trip at once. You do want to book each one way trip in such a way that you have a guaranteed connection, so that if your train going to NYP is late, Amtrak will take care of getting you to your final destination, and I think if you do that there is no way to avoid getting the tickets for both legs when you get the ticket for the first leg.


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## AlanB (Mar 31, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> I'm a little confused about why you would need the Quik-Trak kiosks in Penn Station. When I've booked a round trip and used a Quik-Trak machine to print my tickets, the machine prints out all the tickets for the trip at once. You do want to book each one way trip in such a way that you have a guaranteed connection, so that if your train going to NYP is late, Amtrak will take care of getting you to your final destination, and I think if you do that there is no way to avoid getting the tickets for both legs when you get the ticket for the first leg.


No ticket agent or Quik-Trak machines in Fredricksburg. I'm guessing that she either was able to get those tickets mailed, or will pick them up on board the train. I can only assume that she booked the Albany leg seperately, so those tickets won't be mailed for free.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 31, 2008)

Penn Station is... the most bizarre place I know. Its one of my favourite places to engage in my hobby of people watching. It is the busiest train station in the US. Yet it is also merely the basement of Madison Square Garden and One Penn Plaza. It has hallways going every which way, escalators and staircases, and about 4 distinct levels, none of which are intuitively interconnected. There are about 5 additional sub-levels.

Ask for help! New Yorkers, for all their gruff reputation, are, once approached, usually very friendly and very helpful. Police especially!

Penn Station, if you are aware of your possessions, is, at times, the safest public place in New York, simply because of the sheer volume of people there, all night long. Trains run 24 hours a day. And there are always huge, massive, gigantic crowds. During the day, they are mainly commuters and travelers. During the night time, Penn Station becomes its other self, an unofficial homeless shelter. And there is, thus, a mass of sleeping bums. At times, when I get in late from places, you could see me sleeping among them.

The City, which is a surprisingly homeless tolerant city, responds to this by leaving them alone- but placing police around to keep order. So its perfectly safe, assuming you don't leave your possessions in a place where someone can easily grab them. For a southern lady like you, it will certainly be an experience, not to mention a culture shock. But it should be a fun one, assuming you have a good amount of time to catch your next train.


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## GG-1 (Mar 31, 2008)

Beatlover said:


> Hello!I am going to be taking the train by myself in the middle of April from Fredericksburg, VA to Albany, NY. As you all probably know this requires me to have a layover in Penn Station in NYC. I have never traveled on my own before :unsure: (I’m a 19 year old female) and I have never been on a train so I am very nervous. However, most of my nervousness is surrounding the time I have to spend in Penn Station.
> 
> 1.How safe is it for me to be at this station by myself, or I guess traveling by train by myself in general?
> 
> ...


Aloha

It is 13 years since I was last in Penn Station NY. So the others answers are fresher. We may be better able to help If we knew the approximate times.

I get the feeling from your questions that you are a sharp young woman, so as long as you conduct yourself like you do at home in your city, you will be fine. But do pay attention and remain calm It is the timid that get noticed.

Maybe because it has been so long but I don't remember navigating the station.

Eric


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## Beatlover (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks so much! I've tried asking people I know but I live way down in VA at the border and attend school up in Fredericksburg so nobody around here has much experience with NYC. And yes, I have to have my first ticket mailed to me because you can't get them at the train station here. I really appreciate you all letting me know what to expect it makes me feel more at ease. I purchased my tickets about an hour ago!


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## opaque (Apr 4, 2008)

Nice info on Penn Station. Especially the bit about track numbers not being called out until 10 minutes before boarding. Just the same as in Victoria and Kings Cross tube stations in the UK then 

I have to get my tickets from the ticket office (booked through an agency, not with my own cc so no Quik-Track kiosk for me), are they easy to find?


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## darien-l (Apr 4, 2008)

opaque said:


> Nice info on Penn Station. Especially the bit about track numbers not being called out until 10 minutes before boarding. Just the same as in Victoria and Kings Cross tube stations in the UK then


That's 10 minutes before departure, not 10 minutes before boarding.



> I have to get my tickets from the ticket office (booked through an agency, not with my own cc so no Quik-Track kiosk for me), are they easy to find?


The ticket windows are easy to find: look for big signs that say "Amtrak Tickets" in the Amtrak part of the station. Here are a couple of photos of the ticket area:












Note that the ticket windows often have long lines (15-20 minute wait times are common), so I suggest you try a Quik-Trak machine first anyway: if your reservation was booked using a credit card other than your own, you can just swipe any of your credit cards and then enter your reservation number for verification.

Here are a few more photos inside Penn Station:

Entrance to ClubAcela and escalator down to track 8:






Another view of the central hall and the big screen:


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## darien-l (Apr 4, 2008)

Here's a close-up of the screen above:






Note that it's 6:12, train 137 is scheduled to depart at 6:20 (and is running on time), and there is still no track number. The track number was announced moments after I took this photo, and was swiftly followed by a mass exodus.


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## GG-1 (Apr 4, 2008)

opaque said:


> I have to get my tickets from the ticket office (booked through an agency, not with my own cc so no Quik-Track kiosk for me), are they easy to find?


Aloha

The pictures provided by darien-l are excellent, the area seems much better than I remember from 13 years ago. My question/comment, Why isn't your agent providing all your tickets? Since my Agent isn't to familiar with Amtrak I provide all the information But they print every thing for me, no matter where or combination of travel for the trip.


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## AlanB (Apr 4, 2008)

First, I agree with Eric (aka. GG-1), why isn't your agent providing the tickets?

Second, I concur with Darien, it doesn't matter what credit card one swipes in the machine to activate it. If you know the reservation number, once the machine is activated, even if you use a different credit card you can type in the reservation number and the Quick-Trak will spit out your tickets. And there will be no additional charges to your credit card, since the tickets are pre-paid.


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## opaque (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks for those photos, they are great 

You're right about the 10 minutes to boarding on most trains, but at those two stations the trains I want are only put up 5-10 minutes before departure!

Interesting that you can use any credit card to claim your tickets. That'll make it all so much quicker thanks 

Why can't my agent provide the tickets? Well I don't really know. I don't see why Amtrak couldn't send the tickets in the post to the UK*. What Amtrak have done is send Trailfinders an email with my reservation number and departure/arrivals on it.

Ah it says. "Your reservation has been advanced paid through Amtrak RailAgent. You will need to obtain the actual tickets before you travel." Does mention using your credit card to use the Quik-Trackl machines but doesn't say that you can use any card. Bit vague that.

*National Park Service sent me my Washington Monument tickets in the post.


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## had8ley (Apr 5, 2008)

Just one thing to add. The Penn Station you are going to is not the original Penn Station. It was torn down years ago to make room for Madison Square Garden which was on 50th Street. The railroads had to contend with ever increasing passenger loads in the basement of the original station. They have done as best as possible but I would not want to be a slow mover and expect to make any train, especially NJT, which changes tracks at the drop of a hat. Take notice of what everyone has said~ it is a big place with tons of people coming and going. Try to navigate your way through and you'll do just fine. Good luck. Oh, BTW, Macy's is right down the street as is the Empire State building if you have time to sightsee. The Empire State can have long lines so I would not suggest getting a ticket to the top.


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## AlanB (Apr 5, 2008)

opaque said:


> I don't see why Amtrak couldn't send the tickets in the post to the UK*.


Amtrak doesn't even mail tickets to people living in the US, unless they are boarding from a station that has no agent and no Quik-Trak machine. So England is definately not on their radar screen.

Even when Amtrak did still mail tickets upon request for free, England wasn't on the list.


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## AlanB (Apr 5, 2008)

had8ley said:


> The Penn Station you are going to is not the original Penn Station. It was torn down years ago to make room for Madison Square Garden which was on 50th Street.


What they failed to notice though when building things is that Madison "Square" Garden is really Madison "Round" Garden. I'm not sure how the architechs didn't notice the lack of right angles, but somehow they did.



had8ley said:


> The railroads had to contend with ever increasing passenger loads in the basement of the original station. They have done as best as possible but I would not want to be a slow mover and expect to make any train, especially NJT, which changes tracks at the drop of a hat.


NJT isn't that bad and actually has no control over their fate, since Amtrak and the LIRR do the dispatching. But things change at the drop of a hat all the time, since almost invariably at least one train per day ends up having a problem. And it doesn't much matter if the problem child is NJT, the LIRR, or Amtrak. Loose one track for even 10 minutes during rush hour and there are going to be major problems.

But as long as one is in the correct boarding area, 10 minutes should be more than enough time to get to the correct gate and board the train.



had8ley said:


> Oh, BTW, Macy's is right down the street as is the Empire State building if you have time to sightsee. The Empire State can have long lines so I would not suggest getting a ticket to the top.


Actually the Empire State sells a premium ticket that allows you to skip the lines. It costs almost double the normal ticket, but it does speed things up. On the other hand, one can also buy a ticket to the Top of the Rock for I believe $24 and never stand in a line. They automatically assign you a time, you show up at that time, step on the elevator and are whisked to the top.


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## had8ley (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > The Penn Station you are going to is not the original Penn Station. It was torn down years ago to make room for Madison Square Garden which was on 50th Street.
> ...


Alan;

Last time I stayed in Newark they changed three of the four NJT train tracks AFTER posting a track~ they must have known I was coming. Top of The Rock sounds good but this would be taking her 15 blocks plus away from the station in the big city.


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## opaque (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> opaque said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see why Amtrak couldn't send the tickets in the post to the UK*.
> ...


Ah so it was just people misunderstanding the term agent and not knowing that I'm in the UK as well then


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## Tygercat (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> You should be safe in Penn station, just make sure that you pay attention to your luggage and your surroundings. I would suggest making sure that you go to the bathroom on the train though, prior to arrival into NY. The train's bathroom may not be very exciting by that time, but the odds are that it will still be better than the public bathroom in Penn. And your luggage can become a target in the bathroom if you're not careful.


Hello,

I would recommend ignoring the ladies restrooms in Penn itself, and instead heading over to the Borders Bookstore just outside MSG. Nice, clean small rooms on the second floor, and usually uncrowded. Go around the Amtrak area to the bank of "up" escalators, go up, across the "street" and thru the doors. Borders and a Dunkin Donuts are on the left. Backtrack to return. Don't try this with a short layover in case you get disoriented, it's really easy there! Once back, you can wait in the Amtrak waiting area, it's quite safe if not the most comfortable place around. Try to get a seat close enough to the monitors so you can see them, and move to the area near the big board when you have about 15 minutes before scheduled boarding no matter what the monitors say. Have a safe trip!


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## AlanB (Apr 5, 2008)

opaque said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > opaque said:
> ...


Not in my case. There are travel agents in England who are allowed to issue Amtrak tickets, so I was surprised that who ever you went through didn't do that for you.

Mind you, it might actually be better not to have the tickets in hand when leaving home, so as to not accidentally loose them while in transit.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 5, 2008)

I don't see a problem with the Penn restrooms. Given the population and volume of people who use them (not just train riders- bums, too) they are pretty darn clean.


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## the_traveler (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> What they failed to notice though when building things is that Madison "Square" Garden is really Madison "Round" Garden. I'm not sure how the architechs didn't notice the lack of right angles, but somehow they did.


It was probably from lack of sleep - in "*the City that never sleeps*"! :lol:


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## opaque (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> There are travel agents in England who are allowed to issue Amtrak tickets, so I was surprised that who ever you went through didn't do that for you.
> Mind you, it might actually be better not to have the tickets in hand when leaving home, so as to not accidentally loose them while in transit.


Definately!

Trailfinders are one of the few agents in the UK who are registered Amtrak sellers so maybe none of them actually send tickets anymore?


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## GG-1 (Apr 5, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > The Penn Station you are going to is not the original Penn Station. It was torn down years ago to make room for Madison Square Garden which was on 50th Street.
> ...


Now I am surprised  that Alan doesn't know the first Madison Square Garden wasn't even in Manhattan. I vaguely remember that this one is the 4th. I lived in Manhattan while they built this Arena, without delaying a single passenger train. Later I was crew on a show (1976 Ice Capades) there. The Garden on 50th street IFIRC correctly became the Johny Carson TV theater.

Aloha

ps: did a Google on the garden



> History of Madison Square Garden
> The current Madison Square Garden is actually the 4th building to be called Madison Square Garden. The opening event was held on February 11, 1968 with a gala salute to the USO starring Bing Crosby and Bob Hope. Over the last 4 decades, MSG has hosted tens of thousands of world-class events. For more information on the history of The Garden and to revisit great moments in MSG's history please visit our History page. Of course, the best way to learn more about Madison Square Garden is by taking the All Access Tour.


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## AlanB (Apr 5, 2008)

GG-1 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


I know of four different Gardens, the first was built at Madison Ave. & 26th St, opening on May 31, 1879. The second at the same adress, opened in 1890. The third at 50th & 8th, opened in 1925. The fourth of course being the current location, which opened in 1968. But I've never heard of a fifth one, much less one that wasn't in Manhattan.

Now the company that owns Madison Square Garden did build something called the Maidson Square Garden Bowl in Queens back in 1932, but that shouldn't be confused with the 4 MSG arenas mentioned above.


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## Hamhock (Apr 6, 2008)

AlanB said:


> I know of four different Gardens, the first was built at Madison Ave. & 26th St, opening on May 31, 1879. The second at the same address, opened in 1890.


You mean at the northern edge of Madison Square Park? Hmm, I wonder where Madison Square Garden got its name from?


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## AlanB (Apr 6, 2008)

Hamhock said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > I know of four different Gardens, the first was built at Madison Ave. & 26th St, opening on May 31, 1879. The second at the same address, opened in 1890.
> ...


Precisely.


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## Beatlover (Apr 17, 2008)

Thanks again for all the info! They mailed me all of the tickets, so no worries about picking up my other tickets at Penn Station. I am all packed and ready to leave tomorrow after my class! I'll be sure to write about my trip in the other section of the forum when I return so you guys can see how lost (or un-lost *fingers crossed*) I got.


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## GG-1 (Apr 17, 2008)

Beatlover said:


> Thanks again for all the info! They mailed me all of the tickets, so no worries about picking up my other tickets at Penn Station. I am all packed and ready to leave tomorrow after my class! I'll be sure to write about my trip in the other section of the forum when I return so you guys can see how lost (or un-lost *fingers crossed*) I got.


Well you may not see this , but enjoy your trip, We will be waiting for the report, 

Aloha

Eric


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