# Share a Coke with...Amtrak



## KnightRail (Oct 23, 2019)

Goodbye Pepsi Co., hello Coke. All of the beverages will be changing from the Pepsi family to the Coke family of products. That’s not all, the adult grape juice will also be refreshed. New offerings to wash down those fabulous flexible meals or whatever you choose from the AmCafe!


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## VentureForth (Oct 23, 2019)

Finally some good news out of DC!


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## Qapla (Oct 23, 2019)

First they downgraded the food - and now they are downgrading the soda


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## Rail Freak (Oct 23, 2019)

VentureForth said:


> Finally some good news out of DC!


LOL!!!


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## cocojacoby (Oct 23, 2019)

Coke Zero please. When Diet Pepsi changed their sweetener from aspartame that did it for us. The new Diet Pepsi was terrible.


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## flitcraft (Oct 23, 2019)

Any word on the wine changes? Will they just affect the cafe cars or will they also affect choices in the dining car? The OP sounded optimistic, but I am worried--the recent changes have not inspired confidence that these will be upgrades.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 23, 2019)

flitcraft said:


> Any word on the wine changes? Will they just affect the cafe cars or will they also affect choices in the dining car? The OP sounded optimistic, but I am worried--the recent changes have not inspired confidence that these will be upgrades.


The OP is someone "in the know".


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 23, 2019)

As a Pepsico shareholder, this is not good news. With all of the dining changes, maybe Amtrak does no longer want my long distance business when I need to go out of my way to arrange for such travel.


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## Acela150 (Oct 23, 2019)

If they give me Dr. Pepper I'm happy!  

But considering that I've had to switch to Diet or "Zero Sugar" sodas it would be nice to see Coke Zero Sugar added and additional Diet soda products.


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## pennyk (Oct 23, 2019)

I hope they continue serving Lipton Pure Leaf Unsweetened Ice Tea. I do not drink soda or tea with sugar or artificial sweetener added. I think the best thing I can say for flex dining is that I can have as many ice teas as I want (and I had 2 the last trip on the Meteor).


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## Railroad Bill (Oct 23, 2019)

I also do not drink soda (or Pop, if you are from Ohio). Wish they could have some lemonade or HI C products instead of offering only water as a choice


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## OBS (Oct 23, 2019)

pennyk said:


> I hope they continue serving Lipton Pure Leaf Unsweetened Ice Tea. I do not drink soda or tea with sugar or artificial sweetener added. I think the best thing I can say for flex dining is that I can have as many ice teas as I want (and I had 2 the last trip on the Meteor).


They won't. Maybe something comparable, but Lipton is a Pepsi product.


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## VentureForth (Oct 23, 2019)

Acela150 said:


> If they give me Dr. Pepper I'm happy!
> 
> But considering that I've had to switch to Diet or "Zero Sugar" sodas it would be nice to see Coke Zero Sugar added and additional Diet soda products.


Ah... Dr pepper. The great unifier. Found in Pepsi places and Coke places. The ultimate independent.


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## ehbowen (Oct 23, 2019)

VentureForth said:


> Ah... Dr pepper. The great unifier. Found in Pepsi places and Coke places. The ultimate independent.


Coke will probably push their "Mr. Pibb" brand. If Amtrak has any sense they will push back. I'm not optimistic. 

On the other hand, some Minute Maid lemonade would be a great addition to the inventory...even if canned.


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## tim49424 (Oct 23, 2019)

When is this change to Coke supposed to happen? I was on the Empire Builder and Pere Marquette a week ago and they were still offering Pepsi products. Being I’m partial to Coke, I’m anxious for the change!


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2019)

In certain regions (NY as an example) Coke distributes Dr Pepper. I actually prefer Pure Leaf to the Coke distributed Gold Peak (both unsweetened versions) the PL tastes a bit stronger, and has a higher caffeine content.


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## pennyk (Oct 23, 2019)

PVD said:


> I actually prefer Pure Leaf to the Coke distributed Gold Peak (both unsweetened versions) the PL tastes a bit stronger, and has a higher caffeine content.



I, too, like Pure Leaf better. I did not realize it has a higher caffeine content. Thanks for the info.


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## Rasputin (Oct 23, 2019)

All this soda talk is just a distraction from the meal downgrades. Perhaps soda is the new opiate of the masses.


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2019)

and PL is an 18.5 oz bottle vs 16.9 GP


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## StriderGDM (Oct 23, 2019)

I'll admit, I'm in the minority, but I'm a Pepsi fan.

That said, I think I'll survive this change.


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## Qapla (Oct 23, 2019)

StriderGDM said:


> I'll admit, I'm in the minority, but I'm a Pepsi fan.



Look at it this way ... if all the complaining about the meals makes headway ... if [when] they restore "good food" they may look at the soda as part of the downgrade (which, of course, Coke is) and restore the Pepsi with the better food - hey, we can hope


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## drdumont (Oct 24, 2019)

My condolences to Pepsi people. It is finally Our turn. I don't often drink bellywash on AMTRAK, but it will be nice to have the choice. Since I bring my own particular brand of corn squeezings, it is just nice to see sanity prevail (!).
I don't eschew Amtrak simply because they serve Pepsi derivatives, I just don't order Pepsi products, no matter where I am. the fact that I have a bunch of Coca cola stock really doesn't enter into the equation. I don't drink Tropicana because it is a Pepsi product, but Simply Orange/Lime/Lemon tastes better IMHO.
I ride Amtrak because it is better than Greyhound, and an Helluva lot
more fun than buses, flying or even driving.
Although the Tropicana Train is an interesting phenomenon.


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## Anderson (Oct 24, 2019)

I'm pleased by this change (though I'm waiting on when the changeover happens). Of course, the changeover probably won't be good for my health...train trips were often a time I would "take a break" from soda.


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## NS VIA Fan (Oct 24, 2019)

On the Maple Leaf at the Border everyday,…the Pepsi comes off anyway and is replaced by Coke when VIA restocks the café. Now I guess the American Coke will come off and it will still be replaced by Canadian Coke!


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## ms garrison (Oct 24, 2019)

Used to drink Pepsi , never Coke, but gave some serious thought to my family history of diabetes and switched to water. However, if I was traveling and wanted a treat I would love to have a cold bottle of Sprechers root beer. Those of you who live in the mid west or are from Milwaukee know what I mean.


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## Qapla (Oct 24, 2019)

Since the mandate is to raise profits ... perhaps they should have changed to RC Cola products ... or even a generic brand instead of exchanging one "name brand" for another.


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## PVD (Oct 24, 2019)

I carry a couple of little packs that add to a 16.9 oz water bottle. There are plenty of brands and flavors, I use the ones sweetened with stevia rather than aspartame so I can get some flavor without a heavy calorie count or aspartame. The Dollar Tree near me has them in boxes of 5 for a dollar (aspartame brands they carry are mostly 10 or 8 in the box)


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 24, 2019)

Years ago, I would have been right in the middle of this discussion. I loved Diet Coke, drank three or four a day when I working. But a few years ago, my cardiologist told me to cut out cafeine. So, it's been mostly water or lemonade since then, with a Sprite or a Sierra Mist or ginger ale as an occasional treat. And quite frankly, there's not much of a difference between Sprite and Sierra Mist to get worked up about.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 24, 2019)

MikefromCrete said:


> Years ago, I would have been right in the middle of this discussion. I loved Diet Coke, drank three or four a day when I working. But a few years ago, my cardiologist told me to cut out cafeine. So, it's been mostly water or lemonade since then, with a Sprite or a Sierra Mist or ginger ale as an occasional treat. And quite frankly, there's not much of a difference between Sprite and Sierra Mist to get worked up about.



I’m still waiting for Coke to put its Caffeine free cola in smaller bottles. I’ve only seen it in the 64 oz bottles.


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## PVD (Oct 24, 2019)

It is available in 12 oz cans, although I can not say that every Coke regional bottler is shipping it. It is shown on the coke website.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 24, 2019)

PVD said:


> It is available in 12 oz cans, although I can not say that every Coke regional bottler is shipping it. It is shown on the coke website.



I don’t like canned sodas. Taste and the fact that I don’t always drink that much soda at one time, unless maybe with a meal. I like bottles because I can close them and if I can keep it cold I can drink it later.


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## JayPea (Oct 25, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I’m still waiting for Coke to put its Caffeine free cola in smaller bottles. I’ve only seen it in the 64 oz bottles.



We have had Coke products, including caffeine free diet Coke, available in 6 packs of 1/2 liter bottles for a few years now at the grocery store where I work, here in the hinterlands of the Land Where the Empire Builder Joins and Splits. That doesn't do much for you on the opposite side of the country,  but perhaps it will be available in your area some day. Ironically, we sell any kind of Coke product imaginable in the 2 liter bottles--except caffeine free. I remember when we first started carrying the 6 packs, there was a promotional offer of $0.99/6 pack on them. As you can imagine, those sold well. I bought seven of them myself, and that lasted me a couple of months.

Personally I am glad to see this change. I much prefer diet Coke to diet Pepsi. And my uncle who is my traveling companion on many of my trips will like it even more. He usually buys a couple of 6 packs of the bottles and carries them with him on his trips. As I say, I much prefer diet Coke...but not THAT much.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 25, 2019)

Ok, guess I wasn’t specific enough. [emoji57]

I’d like to see Caffeine Free Coke Classic in the 12 oz & 16.9oz bottles in my area.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 25, 2019)

C'mon Sprite Zero!!


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## PVD (Oct 25, 2019)

I've never seen it in a small bottle, which I agree is better than a can. Just the ability to drink half and put the cap back on so it doesn't go flat is a big plus. I see caffeine free diet coke in 16.9 bottles all the time but that's a different product.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 25, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I don’t like canned sodas. Taste and the fact that I don’t always drink that much soda at one time, unless maybe with a meal.


I'd agree that glass bottles taste better than cans, but I honestly can't taste a difference between plastic bottles and plastic coated aluminum.




Dakota 400 said:


> As a Pepsico shareholder, this is not good news.


I try to judge a company by how it treats the rest of the world, rather than judge the world by how it treats my favorite companies.



ehbowen said:


> Coke will probably push their "Mr. Pibb" brand. If Amtrak has any sense they will push back. I'm not optimistic. Minute Maid lemonade would be a great addition to the inventory...even if canned.


I can't even remember the last time I saw Mr. Pibb. My guess is that it's either Dr. Pepper or nothing. As for Minute Maid "Lemonade" they can keep the measly 3% juice content.


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## RichardWSnow (Oct 25, 2019)

I feel sorry for the folks who run the little convenience store in Grand Junction CO. They sell Coke products. When the California Zephyr arrives, there is typically a rush of Coke lovers eager to make a purchase.


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## RSG (Oct 25, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> As for Minute Maid "Lemonade" they can keep the measly 3% juice content.
> View attachment 15372


Not that I drink packaged lemonade anyway, but I'd rather they leave any amount of juice in the product and keep the "glycerol ester of rosin" and similar ingredients which sound more at home in a chemistry lab than a grocery or foodservice operation.




RichardWSnow said:


> I feel sorry for the folks who run the little convenience store in Grand Junction CO. They sell Coke products. When the California Zephyr arrives, there is typically a rush of Coke lovers eager to make a purchase.


Sounds like it might be soon be time for them to contact the Pepsi vendor in town and make a deal.


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## Qapla (Oct 25, 2019)

In all honesty ...

I like Cherry Coke better than Cherry Pepsi - but, I like Pepsi better that Coke

With the change to Coke products, I hope they offer Cherry Coke


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## KnightRail (Oct 25, 2019)

Coke/Diet, Sprite, Seagrams, Dasani Sparkling, Powerade, Minute Maid, Gold Peak, & adult grape juices Barefoot and Line39 all before Thanksgiving, nationwide. There will be state-supported exceptions.


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## PVD (Oct 25, 2019)

Because of the bottling agreements covering certain regions, Mr Pibb is not nationwide, and in many areas Dr Pepper is distributed by Coca Cola. So it will likely be an issue of which regional Coke bottler supplies a commissary.


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## RSG (Oct 25, 2019)

KnightRail said:


> Coke/Diet, Sprite, Seagrams, Dasani Sparkling, Powerade, Minute Maid, Gold Peak, & adult grape juices Barefoot and Line39 all before Thanksgiving, nationwide. There will be state-supported exceptions.


Say goodbye to Schweppervescence and Tropicana---and most likely Starbucks bottled beverages (since that is a partnership between Pepsico and Starbucks).

Barefoot is an interesting choice; that tells me they are catering more to the younger and "wine mom" demographic.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 25, 2019)

RSG said:


> Say goodbye to Schweppervescence and Tropicana---and most likely Starbucks bottled beverages (since that is a partnership betwee



Isn't Coke's OJ brand Minute Maid? 

Minute Maid is #3 of my preference for OJ brands with Tropicana being #2 and Florida's Natural being #1.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 25, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> Isn't Coke's OJ brand Minute Maid? Minute Maid is #3 of my preference for OJ brands with Tropicana being #2 and Florida's Natural being #1.



I'm also a fan of Florida's Natural and have seen it exported as far as the Asia-Pacific region. Tropicana Pure Premium is pretty tasty (but poor value) and I'd put the taste of Minute Maid above generic non-premium Tropicana. Coke owns Minute Maid, Odwalla, and Simply Orange for starters. If you want the full list of Coke products it stretches into* hundreds of brands and territories...*


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## RSG (Oct 25, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> Isn't Coke's OJ brand Minute Maid?
> 
> Minute Maid is #3 of my preference for OJ brands with Tropicana being #2 and Florida's Natural being #1.


Yes...the Coca-Cola Company has owned Minute Maid since 1960, hence the rollout of that label with the other products in the corporate family.

I would share your ranking of OJ brands. I didn't realize that Simply Orange, a competitor to Florida's Natural, is actually a Coca-Cola created product. So perhaps that may be a menu item stocked at some point in the future. (I could see it being featured on the Acela.)


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 25, 2019)

I doubt we'll see Simply Orange on Amtrak's LD network, in much the same way that we never saw Tropicana Pure Premium, possibly due to the fact that it requires constant refrigeration.


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## PVD (Oct 25, 2019)

Minute Maid (Coca Cola) wanted to compete in the "not from concentrated" market segment, and felt a separate identity would be the best way to do it....


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## RSG (Oct 25, 2019)

PVD said:


> Minute Maid (Coca Cola) wanted to compete in the "not from concentrated" market segment, and felt a separate identity would be the best way to do it....


That was a smart move, marketing-wise. Particularly for those of us who grew up with frozen OJ and likely would associate Minute Maid with reconstituted juice, no matter what it said on the label.


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## juanee (Oct 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> Since the mandate is to raise profits ... perhaps they should have changed to RC Cola products ... or even a generic brand instead of exchanging one "name brand" for another.



That is exactly what I was thinking...


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 26, 2019)

juanee said:


> That is exactly what I was thinking...



Might that reduce sales if people avoid drinking generic sodas?


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## Qapla (Oct 26, 2019)

When in a captive environment ... people tend to use/buy what is available - just like many Coke drinkers have been doing with Pepsi currently being sold and what Pepsi drinkers will do when Coke starts being sold.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 26, 2019)

pennyk said:


> I hope they continue serving Lipton Pure Leaf Unsweetened Ice Tea. I do not drink soda or tea with sugar or artificial sweetener added. I think the best thing I can say for flex dining is that I can have as many ice teas as I want (and I had 2 the last trip on the Meteor).


I discovered that on the Lake Shore Limited and Crescent last week! Pure Leaf is my favorite!


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 26, 2019)

Thirdrail7 said:


> C'mon Sprite Zero!!


 
That's hard to find in a full service restaurant, let alone on a train where supplies will be limited.


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> Since the mandate is to raise profits ... perhaps they should have changed to RC Cola products ... or even a generic brand instead of exchanging one "name brand" for another.



I think the big guys like Coke and Pepsi can cut a better deal for a national contract rather than supplier firms like RC. A generic brand will turn off purchasers.


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## RSG (Oct 26, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Might that reduce sales if people avoid drinking generic sodas?





MikefromCrete said:


> I think the big guys like Coke and Pepsi can cut a better deal for a national contract rather than supplier firms like RC. A generic brand will turn off purchasers.


This is precisely what would happen. There's no one who's going to care if Canada Dry has replaced Schweppes or if Sprite or Sierra Mist replaces 7-Up (except perhaps me). 

But cola drinkers are notoriously finicky (as evidenced by the very existence of this thread), and though a non-cola drinker myself, I personally know people who will not. Drink. Pepsi [or Coca-Cola]. And they certainly won't drink a generic cola. 

Then there's the perception that Amtrak is a third-rate operation by not going with a major brand. This is the same reason that airlines and restaurants stumble over themselves to "proudly serve Starbucks", even though most of their brewed coffee customers would probably prefer Dunkin' Donuts or another brand.

As for reducing costs by featuring allegedly cheaper brands, this usually doesn't work in foodservice, since the cost of the product is built into the selling price. Amtrak wouldn't make any more 'profit' by selling RC Cola at $2.25 than Coke or Pepsi. (And as mentioned, would likely lose money due to reduced sales.)


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## PVD (Oct 26, 2019)

Many of the second and third tier brands do not have national distribution reach with their own distribution networks. Also, at that scale, the cost differences are not a great as one might think, there is an element of marketing and advertising in this type of deal, part of it is to enhance peoples' likelihood of purchasing that family of products in the more profitable avenues, ie: fountain syrup used at fast food restaurants.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 26, 2019)

How come the vote choices don't include...

*7up/Dr Pepper* (includes A&W, Canada Dry, Crush, Snapple,YooHoo, etc)
Don't really care, I can make due with Coke or Pepsi for a single meal
Don't like any soft drinks


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 26, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> How come the vote choices don't include...
> 
> *7up/Dr Pepper* (includes A&W, Canada Dry, Crush, Snapple,YooHoo, etc)
> Don't really care, I can make due with Coke or Pepsi for a single meal
> Don't like any soft drinks


I do prefer 7-Up over Sprite or Sierra Mist. I prefer Canada Dry for my ginger ale and A&W for my root beer. If I could find Hires Root Beer, I'd buy that over A&W.

Growing up and visiting my grand-parents, my Grand-Father enjoyed Royal Crown Cola and I got to drink that which I like. I don't really recall what cola we drank at home.


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## Qapla (Oct 26, 2019)

There have been quite a number of posts in this thread that seem to include "I don't drink soda" or "I don't like soda" and the like ... so, for those who don't drink it, what difference does it make what brand Amtrak serves?

And, for those of us who have a preference, will the change really stop you from having one? I know that, even though I prefer Pepsi, when I am eating out (and I would consider being on Amtrak as "out"), if I want to drink soda, I drink the brand they serve and make the best of it.

I really don't think the change of soda brands is going to have an impact on ticket sales near as much, if at all, as the change in the food!


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## pennyk (Oct 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> There have been quite a number of posts in this thread that seem to include "I don't drink soda" or "I don't like soda" and the like ... so, for those who don't drink it, what difference does it make what brand Amtrak serves?



Although some of us do not drink soda, some drink ice tea or orange juice. Thus, the change may make a difference to non-soda drinkers.

I am guessing that, based on the complaints I have heard over the years, more passengers will be happier with Coke products overall than with Pepsi products, but it may be close.


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## RSG (Oct 26, 2019)

Qapla said:


> And, for those of us who have a preference, will the change really stop you from having one? I know that, even though I prefer Pepsi, when I am eating out (and I would consider being on Amtrak as "out"), if I want to drink soda, I drink the brand they serve and make the best of it.


As mentioned earlier, most cola drinkers are very brand aware; not unlike beer drinkers. Some, like yourself, are not; but that's a minority. That's why it's a big deal for those who do have a preference.

One of the most memorable episodes of _All In The Family_ for me was the one where Mike Stivic assured Archie & Gloria that he could tell the difference between the three major brands of cola. After Archie belittled him for his dumb assertion, Gloria & Edith setup a blind taste test and he correctly identified Coke-Pepsi-Royal Crown Cola. Though a fictional portrayal, it demonstrated how cola preferences were a thing even 40 years ago---enough to get written into a television show.



_[Edited to correct typographical error.]_


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## Anderson (Oct 26, 2019)

At least speaking personally, I'll generally pass on Pepsi. On Amtrak, I'm sort-of stuck because my backup option (sweet tea) isn't available, either, so I've often stuck to milk.


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## Qapla (Oct 26, 2019)

I never said I could not tell the difference. I never said or indicated that I am not "brand aware". I prefer Pepsi! I think I did say that ... however, I do not "refuse" to drink other brands.

Penny has a good point since both brands offer non-soda beverages.

I still do not think the beverage brand change will have the same impact the meal change is having.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 26, 2019)

Anderson said:


> At least speaking personally, I'll generally pass on Pepsi. On Amtrak, I'm sort-of stuck because my backup option (sweet tea) isn't available, either, so I've often stuck to milk.


Milk is good  My preference for dinners is milk. I prefer Coke because it's not as sweet as Pepsi, but I won't turn it down at restaurants.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 26, 2019)

RSG said:


> As mentioned earlier, most cola drinkers are very brand aware; not unlike beer drinkers. Some, like yourself, are not; but that's a minority. That's why it's a big deal for those who do have a preference.



When I owned Anheuser-Busch shares prior to the acquisition of the company by the Belgium company, I purchased ONLY AB brand products for two reasons: I enjoyed Michelob and Budweiser more than I did other domestic beers and I was supporting MY company.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Oct 26, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> If I could find Hires Root Beer, I'd buy that over A&W.



Just to note that 7up/DrPepper markets their root beer under both the A&W and the Hires brand names, as well as the Stewart's and IBC brand names too.


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## neroden (Oct 26, 2019)

RSG said:


> Then there's the perception that Amtrak is a third-rate operation


Well... it is. 

I don't think serving "Coke products" or "Pepsi products" is going to help with that perception when everything else is so third-rate.

Hopefully unsweetened iced tea will remain available.



> As for reducing costs by featuring allegedly cheaper brands, this usually doesn't work in foodservice


This is true. Can someone tell that to whichever joker at Amtrak made up the inedible sugar breakfast menu for the Eastern trains? 

While I understand wanting to fire unionized staff (I don't agree with it but I understand it), cutting food quality just cuts revenue, it doesn't cut costs meaningfully.


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## juanee (Oct 27, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Might that reduce sales if people avoid drinking generic sodas?



Interesting question, perhaps. I guess the important question would be "is Amtrak currently selling Pepsi products at a loss?"


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## Anderson (Oct 27, 2019)

juanee said:


> Interesting question, perhaps. I guess the important question would be "is Amtrak currently selling Pepsi products at a loss?"


Versus direct acquisition costs? I kind-of doubt it (I'd be hard-pressed to see the sodas cost them more than $1.00 each even under unfavorable circumstances). After you load them with all the overhead Amtrak can throw at them? That's the Mica-burger problem.


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## RSG (Oct 27, 2019)

Anderson said:


> Versus direct acquisition costs? I kind-of doubt it (I'd be hard-pressed to see the sodas cost them more than $1.00 each even under unfavorable circumstances). After you load them with all the overhead Amtrak can throw at them? That's the Mica-burger problem.


The general rule for food & beverage pricing is to sell at triple the cost of product. Thus, an item which costs 33 cents would retail at a dollar (or $0.99 for marketing purposes) and an entree that costs $5.00 would retail at $15.00. 

That's just a rule of thumb, and there are menu items in various establishments that are sold below that cost recovery point and others that are sold above it. (The best example of the latter is fountain drinks which have an obscene profit margin.) Amtrak, with its sole source provider of commissary items, operates a bit differently.

The general going rate for restaurant carbonated beverages is around $2.30-$2.80. (More for exclusive places like bars and nightclubs as well as locales with a higher cost-of-living.) Many establishments have a 'bottomless glass' policy featuring free refills. These places serve fountain drinks, which are extremely cheap as a cost factor. That sets a price expectation in the minds of customers. Amtrak serves only prepackaged beverages which have a fixed cost, but which many would claim is a higher quality. I would guess they probably split the difference and chose $2.25 as a retail price which customers would expect to pay while realizing that it's a single item price, much as any other menu item.

As to profit, that's a little like the claim that Amtrak's overall operations in certain sectors are profitable "above the rails". It all depends on how one looks at the accounting. I would think a better way to look at it is in terms of cost recovery. Do they recover the amount in product cost and basic overhead? I would say they probably do. That's not to say that every item they sell makes them money, but when everything is factored in, the sales of items from a specific company, be it PepsiCo or Coca-Cola probably net a return on the "investment" in the product.


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## Anderson (Oct 27, 2019)

RSG said:


> The general rule for food & beverage pricing is to sell at triple the cost of product. Thus, an item which costs 33 cents would retail at a dollar (or $0.99 for marketing purposes) and an entree that costs $5.00 would retail at $15.00.
> 
> That's just a rule of thumb, and there are menu items in various establishments that are sold below that cost recovery point and others that are sold above it. (The best example of the latter is fountain drinks which have an obscene profit margin.) Amtrak, with its sole source provider of commissary items, operates a bit differently.
> 
> ...


Well, and Pepsi probably has a lower shrinkage rate than, say, salads...so that should help the item in question. But it sounds like as long as Amtrak is sourcing their sodas for $0.75, they should be doing just fine...and given prices at places like Sam's, they _should _be able to manage that.


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## dlagrua (Oct 27, 2019)

I'd like to see some healthy drink options added like those made by Naked Juice. This way you can enjoy a sweet drink without all that added sugar. The whole contemporary dining menu is very unhealthy. Its loaded with fats, sugar and chemical additives. It is so bad that last trip we brought our own food aboard. Now trying figuring out a way to reheat it in the room. Maybe some heat tape applied around the box would work.


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## RSG (Oct 27, 2019)

Anderson said:


> Well, and Pepsi probably has a lower shrinkage rate than, say, salads...so that should help the item in question. But it sounds like as long as Amtrak is sourcing their sodas for $0.75, they should be doing just fine...and given prices at places like Sam's, they _should _be able to manage that.


Absolutely...I wasn't even thinking of shrink, which is huge in the foodservice and grocery biz. There will be an occasional leaky can or broken bottle, but that should be rare.

The warehouse pricing model is probably a pretty good indicator of cost of item. The profit on soda sold at Sam's Club/Costco/BJs is most likely very thin so that's about as close to cost-of-product that an outsider can observe. (Unlike supermarkets, where promotional pricing and advertising reimbursement obscure the true cost of packaged beverages.)


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## jiml (Oct 27, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Just to note that 7up/DrPepper markets their root beer under both the A&W and the Hires brand names, as well as the Stewart's and IBC brand names too.


This is an interesting observation with regional variations. For example, in Canada A&W is still owned by A&W restaurants - not Dr. Pepper as in the US, and it has always been bottled for them by Coca-Cola. Hires was until recently bottled by Pepsi for Keurig Dr. Pepper, but they sold it to Canada Dry, which in turn is bottled by - you guessed it - Coke.

VIA Rail used to serve Pepsi, but has been Coke for the last several years. Amtrak has flipped twice that I know of.


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## JRR (Oct 27, 2019)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Just to note that 7up/DrPepper markets their root beer under both the A&W and the Hires brand names, as well as the Stewart's and IBC brand names too.



I like Barq’s Root Beer!


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 27, 2019)

jiml said:


> This is an interesting observation with regional variations. For example, in Canada A&W is still owned by A&W restaurants - not Dr. Pepper as in the US, and it has always been bottled for them by Coca-Cola. Hires was until recently bottled by Pepsi for Keurig Dr. Pepper, but they sold it to Canada Dry, which in turn is bottled by - you guessed it - Coke.


Now my curiosity is piqued. I need to buy some A&W and see if it tastes like what my memory recalls about Hires.


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## jiml (Oct 27, 2019)

Dakota 400 said:


> Now my curiosity is piqued. I need to buy some A&W and see if it tastes like what my memory recalls about Hires.


What you really need to do is go north of the border to an actual A&W where, if you eat in, your root beer is still served ice-cold in a frosty glass mug!


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 27, 2019)

jiml said:


> What you really need to do is go north of the border to an actual A&W where, if you eat in, your root beer is still served ice-cold in a frosty glass mug!
> View attachment 15385


Brings back Childhood Memories @ the A&W Stand!


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## PVD (Oct 27, 2019)

There's one in Austin, is it any good?


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 27, 2019)

PVD said:


> There's one in Austin, is it any good?


Not like the original Frosted Mugs in the old days! I dont think the Rootbeer is the same!


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## PVD (Oct 27, 2019)

Very few sodas in the US are the same as they used to be,or the same as they are in other parts of the world for that matter. US soda bottlers usually substitute HFCS for most cane sugar in their formulations. The debate about the effect that has and the political and economic rationale for US sugar and corn policy are (or should be) out of this forum.


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## lordsigma (Oct 27, 2019)

FrensicPic said:


> I discovered that on the Lake Shore Limited and Crescent last week! Pure Leaf is my favorite!



I would expect Lipton to go (the Lipton iced tea bottles are made by Pepsi) and be replaced by Gold Peak which is Coke’s product.

Additionally Tropicana will probably go to MinuteMade, Gatorade will go to Powerade, and Aquafina water and Lacroix Seltzer probably will go to Dasani which is both Cokes regular water and their Seltzer product. 

Additionally, word on the street is that they are swapping wine distributors as part of this change.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 27, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> Additionally, word on the street is that they are swapping wine distributors as part of this change.



Surely not good news from my experience with the ships of Holland America Lines! The distributor for wines were changed and my long time favorite offered New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc was no longer available. It's substitute was palatable, but surprise not, at a higher price per bottle or per glass.


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## RSG (Oct 27, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> I would expect Lipton to go (the Lipton iced tea bottles are made by Pepsi) and be replaced by Gold Peak which is Coke’s product.
> 
> Additionally Tropicana will probably go to MinuteMade, Gatorade will go to Powerade, and Aquafina water and Lacroix Seltzer probably will go to Dasani which is both Cokes regular water and their Seltzer product.
> 
> Additionally, word on the street is that they are swapping wine distributors as part of this change.


There's an earlier post from the past couple of days from someone in the know which highlights these exact changes. One of the new wines is Barefoot.


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## Anderson (Oct 27, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> I would expect Lipton to go (the Lipton iced tea bottles are made by Pepsi) and be replaced by Gold Peak which is Coke’s product.
> 
> Additionally Tropicana will probably go to MinuteMade, Gatorade will go to Powerade, and Aquafina water and Lacroix Seltzer probably will go to Dasani which is both Cokes regular water and their Seltzer product.
> 
> Additionally, word on the street is that they are swapping wine distributors as part of this change.


Speaking personally:
-The Gatorade/Powerade swap would be a negative if they had anything but the lime-flavored stuff most of the time.
-I'm not sorry to see LaCroix go away.
-Lipton/Gold Peak will probably come down to the flavor(s) offered. If they have _anything_ that is non-lemon sweet tea I'll be an infinitely happier camper on that front. Force choke...er...lemon flavored tea is not something that works for me.


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## keymusic (Oct 28, 2019)

When I drank soda, I liked Coke products. Now I just drink water, seltzer water (Spindthrift is my choice), or unsweet iced and hot teas. I don't like Gold Peak since it's not strong enough. Oh well.


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## neroden (Oct 28, 2019)

dlagrua said:


> The whole contemporary dining menu is very unhealthy. Its loaded with fats, sugar and chemical additives. It is so bad that last trip we brought our own food aboard.



This is the underlying problem with the so-called "contemporary dining" menu, which might have been considered "contemporary" in 1955 when plastics were considered cool. It's really not about table service or on-board cooking, it's about the incredibly unhealthy food selection which is actually inedible for many people with dietary restrictions. They could do better, cheaply.

I'm also hauling my own food. It's very inconvenient for breakfast. It's one thing on the first leg of a trip, but on the last leg where I have to rush out to stock food at Chicago between trains, it is super obnoxious.


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## FunNut (Oct 29, 2019)

I didn't read the entire thread, so apologize if this has been covered. I don't like Pepsi, so I'm glad to hear about the switch. I'm wary of the "new dining," it sounds unhealthy and yucky. What I've always done when riding in a sleeper is bring an eBags Crew Cooler. I pack several Diet Dr. Peppers and some snacks, but never needed the snacks with the "old" dining car options. I highly recommend the Crew Cooler but only the larger one as the small one doesn't hold enough. The Crew Cooler comes in a number of colors, mine is "Blue Yonder." I also have the small one but hardly ever use it.


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## lordsigma (Oct 29, 2019)

RSG said:


> There's an earlier post from the past couple of days from someone in the know which highlights these exact changes. One of the new wines is Barefoot.


Barefoot and Line 39 are the brand names I saw. They are switching to a single distributor, AMI wines for all wine.


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## drdumont (Oct 29, 2019)

Anything would seem an improvement over the Chateau du Plonque'
July 2019 they served on my last trip, according to my daughter. I don't drink the stuff - preferring my Jaques Daniel - but she said it 
was pretty bad.


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## RSG (Oct 29, 2019)

drdumont said:


> Anything would seem an improvement over the Chateau du Plonque'
> July 2019 they served on my last trip, according to my daughter. I don't drink the stuff - preferring my Jaques Daniel - but she said it
> was pretty bad.


At least they're not serving Franzia out of a box just yet...


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## KnightRail (Nov 13, 2019)

ACS-64 #606 has been wrapped, and will be through the holiday season, sporting a big polar bear and “Share the Magic on Amtrak” - launching the new contract with Coke.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 13, 2019)

KnightRail said:


> ACS-64 #606 has been wrapped, and will be through the holiday season, sporting a big polar bear and “Share the Magic on Amtrak” - launching the new contract with Coke.



I saw it on FB this morning. Love it.


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## railiner (Nov 13, 2019)

As a (mostly), non-soda drinker, I find it amusing how passionate partisans are for their favorite brand’s...I doubt if I could even tell the difference...


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## niemi24s (Nov 13, 2019)

drdumont said:


> Anything would seem an improvement over the Chateau du Plonque' . . .


Ever have any Boogie Down?


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 13, 2019)

KnightRail said:


> ACS-64 #606 has been wrapped, and will be through the holiday season, sporting a big polar bear and “Share the Magic on Amtrak” - launching the new contract with Coke.


It's comforting to realize this wholesome logo will still be around long after all the real polar bears are dead.

Link #1: https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/polar-bear-still-sell-coca-cola
Link #2: https://old.reddit.com/r/HailCorporate/


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## Acela150 (Nov 13, 2019)

KnightRail said:


> ACS-64 #606 has been wrapped, and will be through the holiday season, sporting a big polar bear and “Share the Magic on Amtrak” - launching the new contract with Coke.



You mean something else is now more important then 642? LOL!


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 13, 2019)

Acela150 said:


> You mean something else is now more important then 642? LOL!



That & the NJT PRR unit.


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## Acela150 (Nov 13, 2019)

railiner said:


> As a (mostly), non-soda drinker, I find it amusing how passionate partisans are for their favorite brand’s...I doubt if I could even tell the difference...



I think you'd be able to tell. But that's my opinion. 

But it is extremely interesting to see the "divide" of soda drinkers.


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## PaTrainFan (Nov 13, 2019)

Shhhh...truth is, you can't. 



railiner said:


> As a (mostly), non-soda drinker, I find it amusing how passionate partisans are for their favorite brand’s...I doubt if I could even tell the difference...


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 13, 2019)

Blind taste tests have proven over and over that most tasters cant tell the difference.

The same is true of the same types of American Beer. (which generally is yellow water!)


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## ehbowen (Nov 13, 2019)

PaTrainFan said:


> Shhhh...truth is, you can't.





Bob Dylan said:


> Blind taste tests have proven over and over that most tasters cant tell the difference.
> 
> The same is true of the same types of American Beer. (which generally is yellow water!)



I took the "Pepsi Challenge" in the '70s. I had no trouble distinguishing which tasted best...and it was Coca-Cola (PRIOR to the switch to HFCS), hands down. They hustled me away from that kiosk and quick!

As a matter of fact, I earned a small measure of fame when I was working (briefly) at Mickey D's in 1979-80. I could tell, from taste alone, when the post-mix machine mix setting was off by five percent. The manager confirmed it with the cup tester and couldn't believe it!

(Now beer, OTOH...I wouldn't know the good stuff from the bad!)


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## PVD (Nov 13, 2019)

Funny, I was teaching about testing specific gravity in storage batteries the other night, and someone asked about other examples of testing for specific gravity. I talked about when I was working at a roller rink (1972) and we expanded the snack bar. Calibrating the soda fountains (post mix/5 gal stainless tanks, not the bag in a box stuff that is common today) Syrup to water ratio was verified with a refractometer (prism based specific gravity measuring tool) similar to checking grape juice sugar content for winemaking...


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## railiner (Nov 13, 2019)

ehbowen said:


> I took the "Pepsi Challenge" in the '70s. I had no trouble distinguishing which tasted best...and it was Coca-Cola (PRIOR to the switch to HFCS), hands down. They hustled me away from that kiosk and quick!
> 
> As a matter of fact, I earned a small measure of fame when I was working (briefly) at Mickey D's in 1979-80. I could tell, from taste alone, when the post-mix machine mix setting was off by five percent. The manager confirmed it with the cup tester and couldn't believe it!
> 
> (Now beer, OTOH...I wouldn't know the good stuff from the bad!)


Maybe you missed your calling....
Don’t perfume manufacturers pay big bucks for those with sensitive noses or tongues?


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## lordsigma (Nov 14, 2019)

On 449 today. First day of coke on this train. According to the cafe attendant they made a couple food related changes too.


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## pennyk (Nov 14, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> On 449 today. First day of coke on this train. According to the cafe attendant they made a couple food related changes too.


Did you notice whether the bottled ice tea brand was also different?


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## lordsigma (Nov 14, 2019)

pennyk said:


> Did you notice whether the bottled ice tea brand was also different?


Gold peak which is Coke's brand.


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## pennyk (Nov 14, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> Gold peak which is Coke's brand.


Thanks. Did you notice if the unsweetened variety was offered?


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## lordsigma (Nov 14, 2019)

pennyk said:


> Thanks. Did you notice if the unsweetened variety was offered?



Sorry I did not and am off the train now otherwise I’d go check.


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## pennyk (Nov 14, 2019)

lordsigma said:


> Sorry I did not and am off the train now otherwise I’d go check.


Thanks anyway. I will find out soon enough when I travel in a few weeks.


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## lordsigma (Nov 14, 2019)

pennyk said:


> Thanks anyway. I will find out soon enough when I travel in a few weeks.



I would assume that every Pepsi product the cafe had before was replaced with the equivalent product. So it there was an unsweetened Lipton before I’m sure they have a gold peak one. But then again this is Amtrak so who knows.


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## Qapla (Nov 14, 2019)

Tuesday we took a day-trip from PAK to KIS and back. We rode the SM down and the SS back ... we went coach both ways and never went to the cafe car so I have no idea what they had with the new food arrangements. I should have gone to see just to find out but didn't really think of it.


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## keelhauled (Nov 14, 2019)

They have updated the menus online. The NEC menu says it offers both sweetened and unsweetened iced tea. The national menu doesn't specify, but does price it $0.50 less. And the flexible dining menu says unsweetened only. So who knows.


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## Anderson (Nov 15, 2019)

Oh, thank Zeus on the sweet tea! Now I just hope it's not the "with lemon" stuff (AKA Force Choke flavor).

The menus are currently a jumble:
-The Acela is still showing Pepsi and Lipton (link: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...cuments/menus/routes/Acela-Cafe-Menu-0617.pdf )
-The Midwest is listing Gold Peak but just generic "soft drinks" (which is reasonable to do in lieu of listing them all).
-The Surfliner is generic on the tea but explicit on the Pepsi (link: http://www.octa.net/pdf/LOSSAN_2017_7_PacificSurfliner_Menu_Scrolling.pdf )

On the LD trains:
-I wouldn't be surprised if they're playing it safe for a few weeks as stock gets turned over. I think most distribution agreements generally let the old supplies get used, and I remember that after one of the previous menu changeovers the _Capitol Limited_ was still on the old dessert menu for _forever_. "Is it Coke or Pepsi this week?" might be a bit of a game ;-)
-They're probably just not going to bother updating the Flex Dining menu until they run through the current stock of them. Again, can't blame them...I think they ran those off well before Oct. 1, and given how much of a mess everything else is on that front I don't see this as a management priority.

(Of course, I'm going to be a mite peeved if I'm told that it's Pepsi in the sleepers and Coke in the cafe..._that_ will get a polite complaint.)


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## Rasputin (Nov 15, 2019)

Acela was serving Pepsi on our trip on Tuesday, Nov. 12th.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 15, 2019)

Rasputin said:


> Acela was serving Pepsi on our trip on Tuesday, Nov. 12th.



The official change over was the 13th.


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## Rasputin (Nov 15, 2019)

AmtrakBlue said:


> The official change over was the 13th.


I guess I should have had a Pepsi instead of a beer.

This will no doubt go down as Anderson's most important contribution to Amtrak and will be remembered for years to come. There will probably be parades in San Francisco and Washington over this.


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## Qapla (Nov 15, 2019)

Perhaps ... but those in the Pepsi Generation won't be in those parades


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## railiner (Nov 15, 2019)

This reminds me of the “cola war” lyric, in Billy Joels, “We Didn’t Start The Fire”...


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## Anderson (Nov 15, 2019)

Rasputin said:


> I guess I should have had a Pepsi instead of a beer.
> 
> This will no doubt go down as Anderson's most important contribution to Amtrak and will be remembered for years to come. There will probably be parades in San Francisco and Washington over this.


It is strictly a matter of opinion, I know, but to my eyes it is one of only only two net-positive changes he has delivered (the other is the Acela Nonstop).


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