# New Consist Arrangement forSilver Service and the Crescent



## Guest_Rick_* (Apr 18, 2009)

FYI

From AMTRAK

Silver Service and Crescent train consists will be re-organized so that all consists will be arranged in the same order.

Making these consist changes will also move the Sleeping Cars away from engine noise while bracketing the Heritage Dining Cars (which do not have vestibules, only side doors) with the vestibules of the adjoining Lounge and Sleeper Cars, which could be valuable in an emergency situation.

Beginning on 04-22-2009, trains 19 & 20 between NYP-NOL and trains, 91, 92, 97 & 98 NYP-MIA will have the new consist order. The remaining train sets will be arranged over the next few days.

The new order will be:

Locomotives

Baggage Car

Coaches (vestibules rear)

Lounge Car (vestibule rear)

Dining Car (tables facing Sleeping Cars/kitchen facing Lounge Car)

Sleeper Cars (vestibules forward)

Rick


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## Joel N. Weber II (Apr 18, 2009)

Guest_Rick_* said:


> bracketing the Heritage Dining Cars (which do not have vestibules, only side doors) with the vestibules of the adjoining Lounge and Sleeper Cars, which could be valuable in an emergency situation.


I don't understand this. Is the point that there are cases where being in a vestibule is useful but being in the interior of the next car isn't?



Guest_Rick_* said:


> Dining Car (tables facing Sleeping Cars/kitchen facing Lounge Car)Sleeper Cars (vestibules forward)


Does this mean the passengers in the accessible bedroom in the front sleeping car can get into the dining car?


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## MattW (Apr 18, 2009)

Ugh...uglier trains...just what we need. The Cardinal with its big sleeper on the rear is quite ugly, now three other routes will have TWO sleepers on the rear. And couldn't the heritages still be bracketed with the sleepers where they are now?


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## Sam31452 (Apr 18, 2009)

> Ugh...uglier trains...just what we need. The Cardinal with its big sleeper on the rear is quite ugly, now three other routes will have TWO sleepers on the rear. And couldn't the heritages still be bracketed with the sleepers where they are now?


Well as I'm taking the Crescent and the Silver Meteor in summer, I'm quite happy to get a roomette which is as far as possible from the engine.


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## Grandma B (Apr 18, 2009)

Taking the Silver Meteor #97 & #98 from NYP - WPB in July. Does this mean that the Viewliner sleepers are now at the rear of the train??? :unsure: So, we'll now be walking forward to get to the diner instead of walking to the back? How many Viewliners to they usually run in July? Thanks for any info.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Apr 18, 2009)

It's about time! This had been talked about on several occasions over the last few years. There has long been a safety issue existing with having no vestibule exit at one end of the dining car. I, for what it is worth, believe this is in the best interest of safety, and it will allow the sleepers to placed in their rightful place in the consist. The first class passengers should be placed in the area away from the locos as they have paid a higher cost.

OBS gone freight...


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## Grandma B (Apr 18, 2009)

It's dumb "senior" questions: :blink: Will we still hear the sound of the horn as we pass by all those "out of the way" country crossings down south? Also, how is the ride at the end of the train vs the front besides being quieter??


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## Upstate (Apr 18, 2009)

So now that the sleepers are on the back my dreams of a first class lounge car with a open balcony at the end are one step closer to reality.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2009)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> It's about time! This had been talked about on several occasions over the last few years. There has long been a safety issue existing with having no vestibule exit at one end of the dining car. I, for what it is worth, believe this is in the best interest of safety, and it will allow the sleepers to placed in their rightful place in the consist. The first class passengers should be placed in the area away from the locos as they have paid a higher cost.
> OBS gone freight...


Well all they really needed to do was to flip the Viewliner attached to the diner so as to have the bedroom side with the vestibule next to the diner. Don't really need to reorganize the entire consist to accomplish that.

As for the horn issue, that's a matter of preference. Some like it, some don't.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> Taking the Silver Meteor #97 & #98 from NYP - WPB in July. Does this mean that the Viewliner sleepers are now at the rear of the train??? :unsure: So, we'll now be walking forward to get to the diner instead of walking to the back? How many Viewliners to they usually run in July? Thanks for any info.


Correct, you'll walk forward to reach the diner now. And the train should have 3 sleepers, so the walk will be the same regardless. This won't increase how far you have to walk to reach the diner.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> It's dumb "senior" questions: :blink: Will we still hear the sound of the horn as we pass by all those "out of the way" country crossings down south? Also, how is the ride at the end of the train vs the front besides being quieter??


You'll probably only hear it when the train is on a curve and the sound carries better.

As for the ride, if you're in the very last sleeping car, then it could be a bit rougher than it would have been had Amtrak not changed things.


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## MattW (Apr 18, 2009)

I know this isn't Amtrak on generic freight rails and not the heavier Viewliner strung behind lighterweight Amcans, but one summer we rode METRA into and out of Chicago two days in a row. First day, we got stuck in the last car outbound on the express to Naperville. I've had less jolts in those inflatable kiddie jumpers! Then next day we were right behind the F40s on a similar train and it was MUCH smoother.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Apr 18, 2009)

Count me as wanting to hear the horn. Guess I will have to buy a recording and play it in

my room.....


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## Palmland (Apr 18, 2009)

Another good move by Amtrak. Sleeping cars belong on the rear (where they were for most trains throughout the 20th century - yes there were exceptions).

In the 'old days' this facilitated the switching of sleepers that were added/removed at intermediate points throughout the trip. It also got first class passengers away from all the commotion of baggage and mail activity on the head end. And at terminals where the trains departed from stub end tracks (like DC, Miami, GCT. LA, Chicagco, New Orleans) the first class passengers did not have to walk as far to get to their car.

Today, this will help the noise issue (which certainly doesn't bother me) for those in sleepers next to the engine. More selfishly, it is great for standing at the rear of the sleeper and seeing the track unfold behind you. Wish they would do this for the western trains, but not likely with the Transition-sleeper that provides crew access to single level baggage cars.


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## Grandma B (Apr 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Grandma B said:
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> > It's dumb "senior" questions: :blink: Will we still hear the sound of the horn as we pass by all those "out of the way" country crossings down south? Also, how is the ride at the end of the train vs the front besides being quieter??
> ...


Thanks Alan!  The horn never bothered me....I enjoy hearing it! At least it made me feel like I was on a train. It just amazed me how many crossings there were down south. As for the rougher ride, I'd better stock up on sleeping pills now! Since we booked our reservations in Feb for July, what are the chances that we won't be the very last sleeping car????


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## Grandma B (Apr 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Grandma B said:
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> > Taking the Silver Meteor #97 & #98 from NYP - WPB in July. Does this mean that the Viewliner sleepers are now at the rear of the train??? :unsure: So, we'll now be walking forward to get to the diner instead of walking to the back? How many Viewliners to they usually run in July? Thanks for any info.
> ...


The walk doesn't bother us, we just wanted to make sure we were walking the right way!  The Meteor runs 3 sleepers in the summer?? I thought it was only during the winter months.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> AlanB said:
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Well just follow the smell of food!


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## J-1 3235 (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> Since we booked our reservations in Feb for July, what are the chances that we won't be the very last sleeping car????


Your reservation states which car you are in, for example 9720, or 9810, and also your room number.

The lower the car number, xx10, xx20, etc. the closer you are to the diner. The highest number is the last car on the train.

Hope this helps 

Mike


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 18, 2009)

Not only do I enjoy listening to the horn, but at night when it's quiet, I enjoy hearing the "throttle up" of the engines. And I do not even need to be on the train to hear these, as the BNSF is only about a mile away from the house


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## Grandma B (Apr 18, 2009)

J-1 3235 said:


> Grandma B said:
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> > Since we booked our reservations in Feb for July, what are the chances that we won't be the very last sleeping car????
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Mike, we've got the following reservations: I guess we won't know till we get to NYP, since we don't know the other car numbers that will be in the consist.

NYP - WPB Car 9710 - Room 001 (Roomette)

WPB - NYP Car 9811 - Room 001 ( " " " )


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> AlanB said:
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AFAIK the Meteor always runs with three sleepers, it's the Star that used to vary between 3 in the winter and 2 in the summer.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> J-1 3235 said:
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Going south you'll be in the sleeping car closest to the dining car. Coming back north, you'll be one sleeper removed from the dining car. And unless there has been some change that takes the third sleeper off the Meteor, you won't be the last car in either direction.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Apr 18, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:
> 
> 
> > It's about time! This had been talked about on several occasions over the last few years. There has long been a safety issue existing with having no vestibule exit at one end of the dining car. I, for what it is worth, believe this is in the best interest of safety, and it will allow the sleepers to placed in their rightful place in the consist. The first class passengers should be placed in the area away from the locos as they have paid a higher cost.
> ...


Yes, that would have accomplished having a vestibule at both ends of the diner, however, we still would have two places where there was no vestibule side door between two cars (currently between the lounge and the first coach and the diner and the first sleeper). Switching one Viewliner around would place a vestibule door next to the front of the diner as well, but then we would still have two Viewliners coupled together with no vestibule door to exit between.

Assuming the cars will be placed as listed in the first posting (with all the coaches and lounge and their vestibule doors towards the rear and the Viewliners doors facing forwards), this will allow for a entrance/exit available at both ends of each car (with no gaps per se) with the exception of the first coach and baggage care (which a door there really wouldn't be necessary). So therefore, this is a really good move in the name of safety!

The only thing that I am a little concerned about is the potential ride quality of the Viewliners being on the rear of the train. They are not as heavy as the old streamliner sleepers (10-6 etc), and may ride a little rougher on the rear of the train. But with that said there shouldn't be any weight issues as far as consist placement with the Amfleet coaches placed closer to the locos.

OBS gone freight...


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## Crescent ATN & TCL (Apr 18, 2009)

I know the Crescent and the Silvers interlined in the past, are they going to start this back?


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## guestlsa (Apr 18, 2009)

Guest_Rick_* said:


> FYIFrom AMTRAK
> 
> Silver Service and Crescent train consists will be re-organized so that all consists will be arranged in the same order.
> 
> ...


I wonder why the sudden change. I guess I have to find out on wednesday morning .


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## had8ley (Apr 19, 2009)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> AlanB said:
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OBS;

I agree with you on the weight factor of the Viewliners. The Southern had a dome parlor that used to ride between Atlanta and New Orleans~ the view was terrific but being on the tail end and a lightweight car it shook your fillings out. Before the CONO went Superliner it had a dome coach that rode nicely mid-train. I'm sure you've met a few trains that were traveling at track speed and noticed empty hoppers jumping from side to side. I have a feeling no matter where they put the sleepers there will be opinions on both sides of the track. BTW, the coaches first out might lend credence to the rumor that the Crescent is going to set out/pick up the two deadhead coaches in Atlanta that its been dragging around between Atlanta and New Orleans for years.


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## Grandma B (Apr 19, 2009)

AlanB said:


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Thank you Alan for the info.


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## battalion51 (Apr 19, 2009)

Yay for more dumb ideas! :angry: Amtrak continues to fail to realize the way these trains are worked. The Conductor or AC will work the baggage car and the sleepers, while his counterpart will work the coaches. This means that the person working the baggage and sleepers will have to be walking the length of the train A LOT. Just like when they had the baggage on the rear of the Star/Crescent (essentially the opposite of this plan) it DIDN'T work. The baggage car needs to be next to the sleepers. Period.


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## Roy (Apr 19, 2009)

Does the Crescent have two or three sleepers?


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## ExtonFlyer (Apr 19, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> The baggage car needs to be next to the sleepers. Period.


What about the possibility of putting the baggage car at the end of the train? This would at least make the sleepers one car further from the rear (to address ride quality) and also position the sleepers and baggage car next to each other (to address battalion51's point in the quoted post). Feasible?


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## battalion51 (Apr 19, 2009)

It would be the ideal situation in my mind. Just make that 43 car the car you do with all your shorts, and you probably won't hear too many complaints from the PAXs.


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## SUNSETLIMITED01 (Apr 19, 2009)

So the Silver Service and Crescent will look kind of like this right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_7fCGP0O0


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## AlanB (Apr 19, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> Yay for more dumb ideas! :angry: Amtrak continues to fail to realize the way these trains are worked. The Conductor or AC will work the baggage car and the sleepers, while his counterpart will work the coaches. This means that the person working the baggage and sleepers will have to be walking the length of the train A LOT. Just like when they had the baggage on the rear of the Star/Crescent (essentially the opposite of this plan) it DIDN'T work. The baggage car needs to be next to the sleepers. Period.


Or the person working the coaches could just work the baggage car too.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 19, 2009)

AlanB said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > Yay for more dumb ideas! :angry: Amtrak continues to fail to realize the way these trains are worked. The Conductor or AC will work the baggage car and the sleepers, while his counterpart will work the coaches. This means that the person working the baggage and sleepers will have to be walking the length of the train A LOT. Just like when they had the baggage on the rear of the Star/Crescent (essentially the opposite of this plan) it DIDN'T work. The baggage car needs to be next to the sleepers. Period.
> ...


Sounds perfectly reasonable to me...


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## Joel N. Weber II (Apr 19, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Or the person working the coaches could just work the baggage car too.


But aren't there more sleeper attendants per passenger (and thus probably less work for the conductor on that end of the train) than coach attendants per passenger?


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2009)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> AlanB said:
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> > Or the person working the coaches could just work the baggage car too.
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Conductors don't do the work of coach attendants and sleeping car attendants, so I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs.


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## jis (Apr 20, 2009)

What does a coach attendant or sleeper attendant have to do with baggage car handling? At least on the Lake Shore Limited yesterday the sleeper attendants didn't get anywhere near the baggage car. It was the baggage handler from the station who did the baggage handling in the baggage car. The conductor occasionally came down to yell at them when they were taking too much time. But that was about it. I suspect that is why there is baggage service only at a few stations. It is not like Greyhound where the driver just pops open the baggage hold and provides baggage service at each stop.


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## had8ley (Apr 20, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Joel N. Weber II said:
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Silver Service and the Crescent rarely exceed 12 cars~try telling a freight conductor that has to walk an 8,000 foot train back and forth that the A/C has too much walking to do to work bags. VIA has the second engineer working the baggage car.


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## Tony (Apr 20, 2009)

Honestly, I haven't noticed the sleepers being any more noisier with the ol' dorm car gone. Now writing that, I have to (with apologies to Alan) wonder if the sleepers will indeed be noticeably quieter at night. I mean, the Silvers aren't anywhere near the AT in overall length so the sleepers aren't going to all that far from the engine.

The only thing I can think of, is this will eliminate the crew walking thru the sleeperr cars.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2009)

IMHO, the reason behind this change is that there are number of wreaked Superliners, now being rebuilt. By putting the Viewliners on the rear of the train, this will increase the possibility of them being "totalled" in a rear collision, and therefore, become eligible to be rebuilt with Stimulus money.


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## SUNSETLIMITED01 (Apr 20, 2009)

That video is possibly the closest the exapmle to what's going to happen this wedenesday with th exception of a couple of things.


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## guestlsa (Apr 20, 2009)

Tony said:


> Honestly, I haven't noticed the sleepers being any more noisier with the ol' dorm car gone. Now writing that, I have to (with apologies to Alan) wonder if the sleepers will indeed be noticeably quieter at night. I mean, the Silvers aren't anywhere near the AT in overall length so the sleepers aren't going to all that far from the engine.
> The only thing I can think of, is this will eliminate the crew walking thru the sleeperr cars.


first of all the crew (well those who sleep in the 10 car will fartherest from the diner) but I still will have walk though to take resvertions(sorry 4 typo) and I just only will have to walk backwards. The only thing i can really think is that coming into New Orleans we back into the station


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## Larry H. (Apr 20, 2009)

I for one would welcome a return of All sleepers to the rear which is the place most commonly used previous to amtrak. Yes it is quieter there and for another that diesel smell in the sleeper is very irritating on trains like the City of New Orleans where there is no baggage ahead of the sleepers any longer.

I love the idea of a lounge once again for lst class passengers only which also used to be very common and helped to make your extra payment worth it. One thing no sleeping on the floor coach passengers to deal with. I doubt we will ever see that, but we can hope.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I for one would welcome a return of All sleepers to the rear which is the place most commonly used previous to amtrak. Yes it is quieter there and for another that diesel smell in the sleeper is very irritating on trains like the City of New Orleans where there is no baggage ahead of the sleepers any longer. I love the idea of a lounge once again for lst class passengers only which also used to be very common and helped to make your extra payment worth it. One thing no sleeping on the floor coach passengers to deal with. I doubt we will ever see that, but we can hope.


Yes, I remember that the sleepers were the last cars on the SSL during Big Bayou Canot were at the rear of the train and was the coach pax who ended in the drink...

When did Amtrak start putting sleepers at the front of trains?


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## ourlouisiana (Apr 20, 2009)

We just returned from our trip on the Crescent Saturday night. There were 2 sleepers in front, diner, lounge, and 4 coaches. We like the front locatin of the sleepers because we are riding a train, and WANT to hear the horn.

We had the same trainset southbound #19 on the 17-18, as we had northbound #20 on the 11 - 12.


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> Yes it is quieter there and for another that diesel smell in the sleeper is very irritating on trains like the City of New Orleans where there is no baggage ahead of the sleepers any longer.


Actually that has more to do with the lack of a Trans/Dorm, than it does with the lack of a bag. It's the Trans/Dorm, with its head end door that connects to single level cars that keeps the exhaust out of the Superliner cars. With a single level consist, everything is below the stack level of the P42 so you don't have any problems. But with the Superliners in general, the "front door", if you will, is right at the stack level.

Without a Trans/Dorm's lower level "front door", you have a problem. I've been in a Superliner with a bag between me and the engine, and no Trans/Dorm, and the exhaust was still a problem.


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## ourlouisiana (Apr 20, 2009)

Only benefit that we can see to putting the sleepers at the rear ..... leaving NOL, it's a long walk up the 4 coaches, lounge and diner to get to the sleeper !!!!! The same thing with any "terminal" station.


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## TEREB (Apr 20, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Grandma B said:
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> > It's dumb "senior" questions: :blink: Will we still hear the sound of the horn as we pass by all those "out of the way" country crossings down south? Also, how is the ride at the end of the train vs the front besides being quieter??
> ...


We just came back from 97/98 and thought the engine noise/horn was not at all that bad.

The bouncing on the return home, however, was another story. It was terrible. We had to fold the in room magazine in quarters to stick between the connecting door to keep it from rattling. We also stuffed the closet, cabinet, entry doors, and placed towels on the ladder to stop that noise. Can the ride in the rear be much worse that that??

On train 97, we were in the "b" bedroom in the car closest to the baggage car. The bouncing was not quite so bad in this car.

We bounced so hard coming home (we were late 1 1/2 hrs) that I continued to rock for the next full day :blink: . On train 98 we were in the "a" bedroom next to the diner.

BTW, I had the crab cakes and thought they were delicious.


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## Larry H. (Apr 20, 2009)

I know there are all kinds of other things that can go wrong, but I still sleep sounder at the rear. I have brought up previously the old Pullman signs that bragged how many years no one had been killed in a sleeping car. The main reason for that was the avoidance of the cars becoming severely mangled in a head end derailment or crash. It may be that the rear end could be hit also, but my guess is that most fatalities occur up front in a bad train accident. I can't think of too many fatal rear end crashes involving a passenger train in many years. But I can living down the line recall all the deaths in the City of New Orleans due to the sleepers being up front. I don't wish injury on anyone, but most times the rear cars are still sitting upright on the tracks while havoc can occur up front.


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## wayman (Apr 20, 2009)

TEREB said:


> BTW, I had the crab cakes and thought they were delicious.


The new menus are out already? I thought that wasn't until summer!...


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 21, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Larry H. said:
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Are you suggesting the CONO runs without a trans/dorm? Cuz I know it runs with one.


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## cpamtfan (Apr 21, 2009)

wayman said:


> TEREB said:
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No, the current menu for the Meteor includes Crab Cakes. Although I can't wait to see the summer menu change!

cpamtfan-Peter


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## cpamtfan (Apr 21, 2009)

I'll be down at NYP tonight to see the last sleeper-diner-lounge-coaches Silver Star. They've had this set-up since the Viewliners arrive on the property.

cpamtfan-Peter


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## AlanB (Apr 21, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> AlanB said:
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Yes, at least on occasion. I've seen several reports where a regular sleeper pinch hit for a Trans/Dorm.


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## wayman (Apr 21, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> wayman said:
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Wow--I didn't know the Silvers had different menus! I'll be taking them in May. How different are their menus from the rest of the system? Or is it just the Meteor, and the Star has the same menu as the rest?


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## printman2000 (Apr 21, 2009)

AlanB said:


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Like the SWC we were all on on the way to LA last October.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 21, 2009)

wayman said:


> TEREB said:
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Some of the dishes like the crab cakes have already appeared on trains. We had them on the Capitol Limited at Xmas time and they were delicious. Lots of crab and not so much binder. Here's an article about the new menu items from October. I notice that the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle have beef barbecue. I wonder how it is.


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## wayman (Apr 21, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> wayman said:
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Yum! And I'll have slightly different crab cakes--different preparations/sauces on the Capitol and the Silvers. I'll let y'all know how the green chile tomatillo sauce is


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## jis (Apr 21, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> AlanB said:
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Same happened to me on the Texas Eagle, the only time I was hoping to experience a Transdorm. Got a regular Superliner Sleeper instead.


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## Philzy (Apr 21, 2009)

Well this should make things easier to organize in Charlottesville, VA (CVS). When riding the Crescent Northbound it's always a pain cuz everyone (the past three times i've been on it, it's been an average of about +50 people) bunches up around underneath the bridge and then simultaniously makes a mad dash to be the first on the train... it never works out as planned. it would be nice to have people more "spread out" on the platform, and it'll mean a shorter walk for the sleeper car customers as well... but a long ass hike down the platform for us traveling in steerage :-D


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## cpamtfan (Apr 22, 2009)

Saw the Star leaving for Synnyside last night. Can't wait to see how the new consist looks!

cpamtfan-Peter


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## MattW (Apr 22, 2009)

Saw the good ol' Crescent this morning with Viewliners properly up front for the last time.  She sure was a pretty train. Just won't be the same with those Amcans just behind the baggage now.

BTW-wouldn't putting the Amcans right behind the baggage actually decrease security for the baggage car? It's one thing with sleepers where there is sort of a checkpoint at the diner, but not with the Amcans.


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## printman2000 (Apr 22, 2009)

MattW said:


> BTW-wouldn't putting the Amcans right behind the baggage actually decrease security for the baggage car? It's one thing with sleepers where there is sort of a checkpoint at the diner, but not with the Amcans.


I don't see why. Other than more people are right next to the baggage. If there was not a security problem with the sleepers being next to it, there should not be one with the coaches next to it.

Do they lock the end door on the baggage cars?


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## AlanB (Apr 22, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> MattW said:
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> > BTW-wouldn't putting the Amcans right behind the baggage actually decrease security for the baggage car? It's one thing with sleepers where there is sort of a checkpoint at the diner, but not with the Amcans.
> ...


No lock, and no key to a lock.

The advantage to the sleepers being next to the bag were that the sleeping car attendants pretty much controlled access, so it would have been rather hard to get into the bag to steal anything. Having the bag close at hand also allowed a sleeping car attendant the ability to stick a few bags inside the baggage car when passengers brought more luggage than would fit in their rooms.

On the other hand, with the coaches you have more people staring at you, should you try to go into the bag. And of course one needs to know how to drop the bar that bars access, and probably undog the door.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 22, 2009)

AlanB said:


> printman2000 said:
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> > MattW said:
> ...


That would be rather difficult with sixty people watching you since all the seats face forward. I suppose it would be possible at night and everybody assumed you were the train crew. That, and the people within eyeshot could hypothetically watch the train crew get into the bag and figure out how to deal with the bar and dogs--

Sure there is greater risk, but it still seems like kind of a stupid idea to sneak into the bag to steal from luggage. There are much simpler ways-- the racks I suppose, esp in the Superliners when nobody is down there watching. I have always wondered about the Coach/Bag Superliners... the door to one seemed to operate like any other door on the train. I pressed it, and got access once by accident thinking it was LL seating.


----------



## Greg (Apr 22, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Saw the Star leaving for Synnyside last night. Can't wait to see how the new consist looks!
> cpamtfan-Peter



I found it fascinating that the onboard crew would use the transdorms for access to the baggage car inroute to let favored sleeper passengers go there and smoke!!


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 22, 2009)

Greg said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > Saw the Star leaving for Synnyside last night. Can't wait to see how the new consist looks!
> ...


What are you talking about? Firstly I don't know how many Amtrak regs and probably a few FRA regs that breaks--

Secondly, we're not talking about transdorms.


----------



## Greg (Apr 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > cpamtfan said:
> ...


I'm sorry if I offended you ALC. I meant to quote another article. I am so sorry.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 22, 2009)

Greg said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Greg said:
> ...


You didn't offend me, I just fail to understand what your point is. The new consist arrangements are for the single-level trains which don't use the Superliner Transdorms, for obvious reasons... Not to mention I have never heard of that behavior-- an employee would get thrown off the train (figuratively) for such a transgression.


----------



## gaspeamtrak (Apr 22, 2009)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> It's about time! This had been talked about on several occasions over the last few years. There has long been a safety issue existing with having no vestibule exit at one end of the dining car. I, for what it is worth, believe this is in the best interest of safety, and it will allow the sleepers to placed in their rightful place in the consist. The first class passengers should be placed in the area away from the locos as they have paid a higher cost.
> OBS gone freight...


I just rode the Lakeshore on 4/8/09 and had the Boston sleeper up front going to Chicago and heard the horn all night.

I rode back to Buffalo on 4/09/09 and had the last New York City sleeper with the baggage car behind us. I definately like the sleeper at the back of the train, plus it's a nice short walk for the NYC sleeping car passengers leaving Chicago!!  Just my opinion.


----------



## had8ley (Apr 22, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Yes it is quieter there and for another that diesel smell in the sleeper is very irritating on trains like the City of New Orleans where there is no baggage ahead of the sleepers any longer.
> ...


I'll second that...seems like I posted a very similar experience in the past and no one agreed.


----------



## battalion51 (Apr 23, 2009)

AlanB said:


> No lock, and no key to a lock.


I'm going to argue that point Alan. You can most definitely close the bulkhead door and lock it using a coach key. The rear door of the train is typically locked using this mechanism to prevent someone from tucking and rolling or messing around with the backup hose (or typically if there is a deadhead car on the bottom). Are they likely going to start using the bulkhead with the key? No. I can almost guarantee that bulkhead door will be closed though.


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## printman2000 (Apr 23, 2009)

Saw on another board (reported as an unusual sighting) of one of the silver trains with the sleepers on the rear. Won't be unusual for long.


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie (Apr 23, 2009)

I wonder how this is going to affect stations like Orlando?

The north half of the platform is open, and works well for the informal/casual loading of sleeper passengers. The south half of the platform is set up with a queuing maze for loading of coach passengers.

Now, the sleepers will be in front of the queuing maze, and coach will be in front of the open area. 

BTW, I am referring to northbound trains at the station, and I think for Orlando, most departing passengers are heading north.


----------



## AlanB (Apr 23, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > No lock, and no key to a lock.
> ...


Yes, that's true. But that's a door on the coach car, not a door on the baggage car.


----------



## battalion51 (Apr 23, 2009)

True. But the effect is the same either way.


----------



## printman2000 (Apr 24, 2009)

Video of the newly arranged Crescent...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX4032-mP8c


----------



## Bill Haithcoat (Apr 24, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Video of the newly arranged Crescent...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX4032-mP8c


Neat. Who took that? Where?


----------



## AlanB (Apr 24, 2009)

Don't know who took it, but the where is Bessemer, Alabama.


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## MattW (Apr 24, 2009)

And the what is UGLY!

Larger cars belong up front, not tacked onto the rear unless it's a deadhead. Even then I'd rather see Viewliner-Baggage-Viewliner-remainder than the Viewliner tacked on back.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

MattW said:


> And the what is UGLY! Larger cars belong up front, not tacked onto the rear unless it's a deadhead. Even then I'd rather see Viewliner-Baggage-Viewliner-remainder than the Viewliner tacked on back.


I don't see what's so ugly about it...


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## cpamtfan (Apr 24, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > And the what is UGLY! Larger cars belong up front, not tacked onto the rear unless it's a deadhead. Even then I'd rather see Viewliner-Baggage-Viewliner-remainder than the Viewliner tacked on back.
> ...



Its just the fact that the Heritage cars and Viewliners were close in height, making the train look more formal. Now, the baggage is huge compared to the Amfleet 2 coaches, so the train doesn't look as formal.

cpamtfan-Peter


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## jis (Apr 24, 2009)

I think it looks just fine, or as fine as it can with three different shaped cars and a locomotive that does not match any of them. :unsure:


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## Bill Haithcoat (Apr 24, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Don't know who took it, but the where is Bessemer, Alabama.


OK. I got it....I just not look at the video long enough to see that.

Now, should anybody wonder where Bessemer is, since it is not a stop, I do know it to be a suburb south of Birmingham.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 24, 2009)

jis said:


> I think it looks just fine, or as fine as it can with three different shaped cars and a locomotive that does not match any of them. :unsure:


I thought that the Penny looks ugly with the AFII's behind it directly, but the bag kind of tapers it all together so its not a great shock. Same thing with the Heritage diner, it tapers up to the sleepers.

I'm sorry Amtrak doesn't have the money to make perfectly matching consists, but compared to what you saw in 1972, this is LIGHTYEARS worth of improvement.


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## TampAGS (Apr 27, 2009)

*Here's a video from over the weekend of the **SILVER STAR,** both #91 and #92, sporting the new consist.*

 

*
*


 

If you're not a fan of the new arrangement, watch the train in Tampa as it travels in reverse! For a while it resembles the old consist.


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## MattW (Apr 27, 2009)

Good Video! Ugly consist, but Good Video!! The logo was strangely appropriate. The B in Backtrack made the word look sort of like the consist (but the logo was great! Not saying the logo was ugly, as having something of a digital media background I can really appreciate that logo and the creativity behind it)

BTW-Do the Viewliners have a horn of some sort, or is that something the conductor holds, or the doppler-compression of the P42's K5LA?


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## Shanghai (Apr 27, 2009)

I thought the train looked fine. I have taken the Silver Star on several occasions and always enjoyed my trip.

The Tampa station has been improved and looks very nice too.


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## TampAGS (Apr 27, 2009)

MattW said:


> BTW-Do the Viewliners have a horn of some sort, or is that something the conductor holds, or the doppler-compression of the P42's K5LA?


There was a similar sound made when the Amfleet coaches were bringing up the rear. Not the same pitch, but still a higher register than the horn from the engines. You can hear an example in another video, "An Amtrak Afternoon: Part 1 (Falling Star)". It's in the playlist mentioned in my signature banner. Just click on it and it links you to the playlist page. You can find the video there. There's a series of "toots" from the front and the rear of the train... I assume some means of signal or communication between the engineer and conductor.

 

I'm not exactly sure of the nature of the noise. I haven't noticed any device being held by the conductors, but it isn't plainly visible where or what they are activating to make the sound.


----------



## JAChooChoo (Apr 27, 2009)

TampAGS said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > BTW-Do the Viewliners have a horn of some sort, or is that something the conductor holds, or the doppler-compression of the P42's K5LA?
> ...


Its a backup hose, required for occupied reverse moves, which is attatched to the end of the air brake line and allows the the crew member to dump the air and stop the train. A part of the device is an air whistle.


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## VentureForth (Apr 28, 2009)

Saw the consist for the first time today and I hope to post the almost-too-dark video on youtube sometime. I think it looks a lot better. Before, you had tall P42, short baggage, tall Viewliners, medium Diner, short Amcans.

Now, you get the P42 in the lead, followed by Baggage, Amcans, diner, and Viewliners. It actually seems to make a lot more sense, and unless you're paying real close attention, you may not notice the height difference as quickly as you would in the previous consist lineup.


----------



## battalion51 (Apr 28, 2009)

Backup hose, as seen on the Sunset Limited. It's hooked to the bar and you can see it snake down toward the coupler.







All freight railroads require Amtrak trains to have a backup hose on them, unless an NPCU or cab car is leading (although some roads may require it on the cab car because I believe I've seen them on California Cars before, but I know on CSX if you have a cab car no backup hose is needed). However, on Amtrak's own rails, i.e. NEC, no backup hose required. Never got an explanation on why. But that's how it is.


----------



## had8ley (Apr 28, 2009)

Also known as a "monkey's tail" in the train yards.


----------



## AlanB (Apr 28, 2009)

Here's another shot of a backup hose being held by a conductor as the Twilight Shoreliner backs into Newport News many moons ago.


----------



## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

TampAGS said:


> *Here's a video from over the weekend of the **SILVER STAR,** both #91 and #92, sporting the new consist.*
> 
> *
> *



I am not a fan of the new arrangement because I still don't agree that it results in the Viewliner sleeping passengers no longer being disturbed by the engine's horn. In that video, I can clearly hear the horn even before the very first Viewliner passes by the camera (traveling in reverse).

This is just another example of Amtrak wasting time and energy on a "fix" that doesn't fix anything (like successfully eliminating engine horn noise for Viewliner passengers).


----------



## AlanB (Apr 28, 2009)

Guest said:


> This is just another example of Amtrak wasting time and energy on a "fix" that doesn't fix anything (like successfully eliminating engine horn noise for Viewliner passengers).


Did you actually read the first post in this topic? :unsure:

This wasn't done to eliminate engine horn noise for sleeping car pax, if it was they'd be doing it on the western trains too. It was done to solve a safety issue associated with the single level dining cars that have no external doors that can be used to evacuate passengers in an emergency.


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## battalion51 (Apr 28, 2009)

Wouldn't it just have been easier to turn the sleepers around so the vestibules were towards the rear of the train? Back in the day the B-end of the lounge was always towards the diner, so that seems like it'd be a simpler fix. Wait, that's the problem. It's simple.


----------



## AlanB (Apr 28, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> Wouldn't it just have been easier to turn the sleepers around so the vestibules were towards the rear of the train? Back in the day the B-end of the lounge was always towards the diner, so that seems like it'd be a simpler fix. Wait, that's the problem. It's simple.


As noted by OBS back on page two, that only solves half the problem. One still had the issue of either no exit at the cafe end of the diner, or you ended up with no exit at the end of the lounge and the first coach.

Of course Amtrak could have also turned all the coaches around, in addition to the Viewliners. Or they could take the easy way out and just swap the coaches and the Viewliners and not need to go looking for wye's and loops to accomplish the task. Not to mention that they do actually solve something that many do complain about in the process, the whistle noise.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 28, 2009)

AlanB said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it just have been easier to turn the sleepers around so the vestibules were towards the rear of the train? Back in the day the B-end of the lounge was always towards the diner, so that seems like it'd be a simpler fix. Wait, that's the problem. It's simple.
> ...


Two birds with one stone.

And, actually, its quite a simple solution. So more power to Amtrak for actually not having to go through pencil pushers to figure out how to solve a safety issue.


----------



## VentureForth (Apr 28, 2009)

Here's my crappy video as shot in the waning sun with my crappy Blackberry video....


----------



## Guest (Apr 28, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Did you actually read the first post in this topic? :unsure:
> This wasn't done to eliminate engine horn noise for sleeping car pax, if it was they'd be doing it on the western trains too. It was done to solve a safety issue associated with the single level dining cars that have no external doors that can be used to evacuate passengers in an emergency.


Actually, I read one of your own initial posts. 



AlanB said:


> You'll probably only hear it when the train is on a curve and the sound carries better.
> As for the ride, if you're in the very last sleeping car, then it could be a bit rougher than it would have been had Amtrak not changed things.


----------



## AlanB (Apr 28, 2009)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Did you actually read the first post in this topic? :unsure:
> ...


Yes, but nowhere in that post did I state that the horn noise was the reason for moving the sleepers to the rear. All I did was answer a question about whether one would hear the horn thanks to the switch.


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## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.


Please discuss this topic here.


----------



## pennyk (Jul 22, 2009)

I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.

If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.


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## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

pennyk said:


> I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.
> If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.


What is the safety issue? :huh:


----------



## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Grandma B said:
> 
> 
> > Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.
> ...


The reason I didn't post to that thread was the last post on there is April 28th. The most recent thread on the issue was "closed" as of 9:31 A.M this morning.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.
> ...


Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.

If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.

Think of it this way-- if a train derailed and the one end was on fire then you want the other end to have an exit to the train. If you have no exits, you're in bad shape. If you have one exit you better hope that one exit is on the side of the train that isn't on fire. With exits on both sides it gives the best option in case of emergency.

All of this has been discussed here.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Grandma B said:
> ...


It's okay to bring up the issue in an old thread if you have something to add-- it happens all the time. The mods will come along and merge topics together, but keeping all discussions of an issue in one thread you keep all information in one place for easy reference.


----------



## MrFSS (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Grandma B said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


They are now merged.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks


----------



## MattW (Jul 22, 2009)

What would be the problem with putting the baggage behind the Viewliners then the locomotives behind that, then flipping the seats in the Amfleets (so it would actually be in front of the Viewliners but whatever)? The vestibule arrangement doesn't change, and Viewliners are back up front.


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## Ryan (Jul 22, 2009)

Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?

You'd need cab cars for the front!

I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?
> You'd need cab cars for the front!
> 
> I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.


He's being sardonic.


----------



## printman2000 (Jul 22, 2009)

Seems the issue of where vestibules are is really a non factor with this. They did not have to move the sleepers to the back to get the vestibule alignment they wanted.

If I am thinking straight here, it would seem you could flip the entire consist (less the baggage) from how it is now, have the sleepers up front and still have the vestibules how they want them.


----------



## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?


----------



## cpamtfan (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Grandma B said:
> 
> 
> > pennyk said:
> ...



Both Amfleet II and Horizon lounges/dinettes have vestibules, its just that the Heritage Diners don't have any doors or exits. Maybe if CSX would take better care of their tracks, then the ride would be better. The ride may also differ by car, some cars might have new trucks or wheels, why another might have flatspots, etc.

cpamtfan-Peter


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?


Here you go:



OBS_Gone_Freight said:


> Ok, I wanna here from you how a conductor (put yourself in his/her shoes) should handle this issue. As a T&E railroader by profession, I already know what the solution should be, here (even though I am concerned mostly with freight railroading). I have already observed my passenger T&E peers implementing the proper solutions to this issue.
> I don't disagree with you in the respect with the help situation, however. Prior to Amtrak switching the consists to the "wrong way" about ten years ago, we had three T&E crew members in the back instead of just the two as we do now. So it would be nice for that third assistant conductor/flagman to be brought back into service. But it would also be nice if Amtrak would restore the dining car and lounge car to the staffing levels of yesteryear as well!
> 
> But the bottom line is, it is what it is! And there has been no further safety issue created here. It merely changes the the way the crew must work the train. So let's hear from you why you believe this is a safety issue when in fact safety for the passengers and crew has been increased with the solution Amtrak has implemented!
> ...


----------



## printman2000 (Jul 22, 2009)

Grandma B said:


> May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?


Besides the Silvers, the Crescent, Cardinal and Lake Shore Limited are the only Viewliner trains. The Crescent got the change along with the Silvers. The Cardinal has always had the sleeper on the rear (at least for a long time). The LSL had them on the front until the Boston through sleeper. It now has one sleeper up front (Boston) and two on the rear (NY).


----------



## MattW (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?
> ...


Um no...Notice I said "then it'd actually be the front" indicating the locomotives would be the front. I only said it the way I did to make sure it was clearly solving the problem instead of just the old broken record of "just put the Viewliners back."


----------



## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Grandma B said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?
> ...


Thanks for the insight.


----------



## Grandma B (Jul 22, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Grandma B said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?
> ...


Thank you for your reply about which trains run the Viewliners.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

MattW said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > HokieNav said:
> ...


Except it doesn't clearly solve the problem... While on the surface it seems to work, most of the railroad employees on this board deny that it would work and have praised Amtrak for this decision. I trust them.


----------



## printman2000 (Jul 22, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.
> If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.


I thought the dining car was next to the sleepers, not the lounge?

If lounge cars and dining cars do not have vestibules, there is no way all cars can have an exit on each end. I am just not following the "vestibule" argument.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.
> ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhVxI4IZWBc

I may have been fooled by the shape-- that's the new diner right there, notice there are no doors.

Watch the consist:

P42

P42

Bag

Coach-door

Coach-door

Coach-door

Coach-door

Lounge-door

Diner

door- Sleeper

door- Sleeper

The last sleeper doesn't need a second door because the last door is the exit in and of itself... the same applies to the front coach which can access the bag with very big side doors.


----------



## Ryan (Jul 22, 2009)

MattW said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > HokieNav said:
> ...


I'm still utterly incapable of visualizing the consist that you're describing.

OK, I think that I get it. From the "old way" with the sleepers up front, you're just talking about turning the amfleets around so that they run with the vestibules forward?


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## Donctor (Jul 22, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Seems the issue of where vestibules are is really a non factor with this. They did not have to move the sleepers to the back to get the vestibule alignment they wanted.
> If I am thinking straight here, it would seem you could flip the entire consist (less the baggage) from how it is now, have the sleepers up front and still have the vestibules how they want them.



But they wanted the Viewliners to face forward. If they don't, all of the roomette passengers face backwards.


----------



## ALC Rail Writer (Jul 22, 2009)

Amtking said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems the issue of where vestibules are is really a non factor with this. They did not have to move the sleepers to the back to get the vestibule alignment they wanted.
> ...


The coach pax too-- all of the seats would need rotated.


----------



## Donctor (Jul 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> OK, I think that I get it. From the "old way" with the sleepers up front, you're just talking about turning the amfleets around so that they run with the vestibules forward?



That still doesn't eliminate the problem of the diner's lack of access to vestibules.

I happened to get video of the LSL every day during the week they were eliminating the diners. For a couple days, one consist had the diner backwards, with the tables at the rear. According to people at Amtrak, this was a test to see if the Viewliners could be kept at the front of the train.

Just for the record, I like the sleepers being at the rear of the train. The extra "sway" helped put me to sleep.


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## printman2000 (Jul 23, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


Right, so if you reverse the consist...

P42

P42

Bag

Sleeper-door

Sleeper-door

Dining

Door-Lounge

Door-Coach

Door-Coach

Door-Coach

Door-Coach

I am not arguing against/for anything. I am just saying the door alignment can be done while leaving the sleepers at the front.


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## printman2000 (Jul 23, 2009)

Amtking said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Seems the issue of where vestibules are is really a non factor with this. They did not have to move the sleepers to the back to get the vestibule alignment they wanted.
> ...


There is no forward or backwards in sleeper compartments.


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## printman2000 (Jul 23, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Amtking said:
> 
> 
> > printman2000 said:
> ...


Just once. I assume the Amfleet seats turn just like the Superliners.


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## Ryan (Jul 23, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Amtking said:
> 
> 
> > printman2000 said:
> ...


I've never been in one, but don't all the couches in the viewliner bedrooms face the same direction?


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## printman2000 (Jul 23, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Amtking said:
> ...


No, the are opposite so that they can open the partition between them and make a "suite".


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 23, 2009)

MattW said:


> What would be the problem with putting the baggage behind the Viewliners then the locomotives behind that, then flipping the seats in the Amfleets (so it would actually be in front of the Viewliners but whatever)? The vestibule arrangement doesn't change, and Viewliners are back up front.


Actually, if you did it that way, then the sleeper would be without an exit at one end due to the fact that the baggage car would prevent you from using the end door as an exit.


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## MattW (Jul 23, 2009)

Which is what happens now in coach with the baggage up front. Either one of the coaches is without an exit, the diner is without an exit, or the sleepers are without an exit. My vote is for the sleepers to not. Simply for the reason there will likely be less people trying to get out that one exit except at night when it's the sleepers that are full and the Diner that is empty. During the day, the people would tend to spread out. Can you imagine 60 or 80 coach passengers all trying to get to the back of the car at once in a panic because the train derailed or is on fire or something?


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## printman2000 (Jul 23, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > What would be the problem with putting the baggage behind the Viewliners then the locomotives behind that, then flipping the seats in the Amfleets (so it would actually be in front of the Viewliners but whatever)? The vestibule arrangement doesn't change, and Viewliners are back up front.
> ...


No matter what, some car is going to be next to the baggage car and none of them have vestibules on both ends. The first coach now does not have a vestibule next to the baggage.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 23, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > MattW said:
> ...


But you can fix that by putting an Amfleet I for SD passengers between the lounge and the first coach.


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## printman2000 (Jul 24, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


Yup, that would work. However, I seriously doubt that will happen.


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## gaspeamtrak (Jul 24, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...




Great video!!!

I'm from Canada and I think its and excellent practice that Amtrak engineers usually give two blast of the horn when they get the highball from the Conductor.Was this or is it a RULE???

I know in Canada we don't do this hardly at all but it's so professional.

Maybe the FAT CATS at Via's head quarters in montreal think that Via is to high and mighty for this practice?

Gotta love AMTRAK


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## frj1983 (Jul 24, 2009)

Hot Coffee in the Morning!

I can't believe this discussion is still going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :unsure:

Not that I'm adverse to discussion, but wow over 130 responses!!


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## MrFSS (Jul 24, 2009)

frj1983 said:


> Hot Coffee in the Morning!
> I can't believe this discussion is still going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :unsure:
> 
> Not that I'm adverse to discussion, but wow over 130 responses!!


We did merge some threads and that made it longer. At least its not about TP!


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