# Fire impacts Coast Starlight (6/29/21)



## coalman

Hi I'm on CS in Klamath Falls, Oregon. Train stopped and turning back to Portland. Fire burned bridge south of here. Wish you were here for trip of life time or just the new normal.


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## Danib62

uh oh... I'm planning a CS trip next month, I hope this isn't a major outage.


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## GiantsFan

Oh wow!! Glad you guys were stopped and not caught in that!


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## Brian Battuello

Amtrak alert:

SERVICE DISRUPTION: Coast Starlight Train 11 which departed SEA on 6/28 will terminate at Klamath Falls (KFS) due to wildfires south of Klamath Falls. Train will return back to origination providing drop-off only.


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## AmtrakBlue

Brian Battuello said:


> Amtrak alert:
> 
> SERVICE DISRUPTION: Coast Starlight Train 11 which departed SEA on 6/28 will terminate at Klamath Falls (KFS) due to wildfires south of Klamath Falls. Train will return back to origination providing drop-off only.


And the same for the Train 14 that left LAX yesterday.


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## Brian Battuello

Couldn't find anything in the news specifically about a bridge, just fires in the area. If true could be a major problem. Any pointers?

Not actual photo....


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## MARC Rider

They're having a heat wave and a drought out there, aren't they? It's going to be a pretty nasty fire season, I guess.


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## joelkfla

MARC Rider said:


> They're having a heat wave and a drought out there, aren't they? It's going to be a pretty nasty fire season, I guess.


All-time record temps in WA & OR, but temps expected to fall starting today.


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## Way2Kewl

Looks like the fire will affect todays 11/14 too

*SERVICE DISRUPTION: Coast Starlight Train 14, departing Los Angeles on 6/29 through 7/1, will operate as a bus bridge between Sacramento (SAC) and Klamath Falls (KFS) due to wildfires on the route. Customers scheduled at intermediate stations, please call or text 1-800-USA- RAIL.

*SERVICE DISRUPTION: Coast Starlight Train 11, departing SEA on 6/29 through 7/1, will operate as a bus bridge between Klamath Falls (KFS) and Sacramento (SAC) due to wildfires on the route. Customers scheduled at intermediate stations, please call or text 1-800-USA-RAIL.

Sorry for the folks in route...


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## MikefromCrete

Brian Battuello said:


> Couldn't find anything in the news specifically about a bridge, just fires in the area. If true could be a major problem. Any pointers?
> 
> Not actual photo....
> 
> View attachment 23256





wow, for a moment, I thought that was the actual bridge on fire. The actual bridge may or may not have suffered damage that may cut off service for months. so I don't see the purpose of publishing some random trestle fire that has nothing to do with the problems on the UP.


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## Cal

I'm going on the Starlight in August, hopefully nothing bad happens!


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## oregon pioneer

A friend who lives in Mt. Shasta mentioned this fire yesterday: Lava Information - InciWeb the Incident Information System
I suspect this is the fire, but I can't find anything about Amtrak involvement in the news, even knowing it's the Lava Fire. This article merely mentions that it "crossed a railroad." Lots of good photos.


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## Danib62

Given that we have absolutely no indication that a bridge was in fact burned can we take it out of the title? It's pretty misleading...


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## AmtrakBlue

Danib62 said:


> Given that we have absolutely no indication that a bridge was in fact burned can we take it out of the title? It's pretty misleading...


Just because the news hasn't covered it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm assuming the OP heard it from an Amtrak employee on the train s/he's on.

Per someone on FB this is the bridge that the fire crossed (we do know that the fire crossed US 97). What we don't know is the extent of damage and how quickly UP can get there - because there's an active fire - to inspect and repair it.








Union Pacific - Hotlum Trestle · California 96094


★★★★★ · Railroad company




www.google.com


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## Danib62

Hearsay from an Amtrak employee is always super reliable...


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## Way2Kewl

Fingers crossed the bridge is fine.
Amtrak may be bypassing the area out of precaution due to any burning of the farms around the town of Weed just to the Southwest in the fire map image you provided. A train full of loaded old folks.  (disclaimer – not serious)


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## Cal

The bridge is not fine.


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## MikefromCrete

Cal said:


> View attachment 23269
> View attachment 23270
> 
> 
> The bridge is not fine.



Is this an actual photo of the bridge or some other file photo?


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## Cal

MikefromCrete said:


> Is this an actual photo of the bridge or some other file photo?


According to a friend both of the actual bridge, almost certain that the right photo is an actual photo. Either way,it is not fine.


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## Bob Dylan

Cal said:


> View attachment 23269
> View attachment 23270
> 
> 
> The bridge is not fine.


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## desertflyer

All of these photos have been posted on Twitter. Not sure of the source but they look legitimate.


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## Brian Battuello

That's almost as bad as my hypothetical picture! Haven't found any news stories yet, but I'm sure they have plenty of other things to deal with right now.

Those pictures look a lot like the file photos of the Hotlum Trestle, so probably the real thing. Not good. This could set the UP back years. Maybe if we're lucky it is just the wooden top structure, but I wouldn't want to put any bets on the integrity of the steel.

Nice YouTube of the Coast Starlight crossing the trestle, which is apparently also known as the Dry Creek Trestle. Check out all the fuel underneath...


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## desertflyer

In better times.


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## Cal

desertflyer said:


> In better times.



Is the Hotlum and Dry Creek Trestles the same?


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## Brian Battuello

Great minds search alike 

It appears to be the same.


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## AmtrakBlue

Interruptions Impacting Rail Operations


Union Pacific Customer Announcement



www.up.com







> The fire burning in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest near Weed, California, is impacting rail operations between Redding, California and Eugene, Oregon. Our Engineering team is currently assessing the extent of the damage to our rail infrastructure including the Dry Canyon bridge near Hotlum, California. A reroute plan is in place to move traffic around the impacted area. As a result of the alternate routing, customers may experience delays in excess of 72 hours.


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## Danib62

So much for my honeymoon


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## zephyr17

Well, at least they're in there evaluating it. That's the first step.

Wonder if UP will detour trains over the Inside Gateway or just run everything through Odgen?

My guess is Ogden.


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## Cal

How long until the bridge can be repaired?


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## desertflyer

Some fire fighters reported that it was mostly the ties that burned. I wonder if it's possible that the bridge itself is structurally sound despite the terrible looking photos?


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## AmtrakBlue

Cal said:


> How long until the bridge can be repaired?


Depends on the damage. 
UP will want to get it repaired as soon as possible.


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## Brian Battuello

Hot fires aren't good for steel.


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## coalman

desertflyer said:


> Some fire fighters reported that it was mostly the ties that burned. I wonder if it's possible that the bridge itself is structurally sound despite the terrible looking photos?


where are the photos of bridge?


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## Brian Battuello

Previous page, response #17


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## coalman

coalman said:


> Hi I'm on CS in Klamath Falls, Oregon. Train stopped and turning back to Portland. Fire burned bridge south of here. Wish you were here for trip of life time or just the new normal.


I just got back to Portland. I was on this train. A customer service rep spoke with each of us on the train. He said BN had 2 fire trains there. They were working on Southside but could not get to Northside of the bridge is what he heard on their morning briefing before coming to meet our train. We were told last night on our train that Burlington Northern shut down the tracks.


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## zephyr17

Um, the fire was on the Union Pacific (ex-SP) portion of the Coast Starlight, route. The train only runs on BNSF between Seattle and Portland.

Sounds like something got lost in translation. Burlington Northern (which no longer exists, having merged with the Santa Fe in 1996 to form BNSF) would not have been involved except maybe to lend equipment and/or workers to UP if UP asked.

With that aside, what was the customer service representative offering for reaccommodation/compensation?


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## danasgoodstuff

I just Google Earthed this and it would appear that the trestle in question is after the split with the branch that goes over Siskiyou Summit, but there's probably fire damage there too. It would be something though if they ran passengers that way for the first time in decades, maybe since pre-WWII.


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## Cal

It should be back in service by mid August, right?


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## danasgoodstuff

Maybe not if they have to do major repairs to that trestle and can't use the alternate route either.


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## zephyr17

danasgoodstuff said:


> I just Google Earthed this and it would appear that the trestle in question is after the split with the branch that goes over Siskiyou Summit, but there's probably fire damage there too. It would be something though if they ran passengers that way for the first time in decades, maybe since pre-WWII.


Seriously doubt they'd detour over CORP's Siskiyou Line. Much of it is 10 mph. It would take a very long time.

SP ran local passenger trains over the line until the late 1950s. There were two, one ran from Black Butte junction to Medford, the other Eugene-Medford. One was named _Rogue River, _forget the name of the other one.

Sometime in the 1990s I think ODOT ran a demonstration train from Eugene as far as Roseburg, maybe even to Medford. It didn't go over Siskiyou Summit, though.


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## zephyr17

Cal said:


> It should be back in service by mid August, right?


It all depends if the steel structure was significantly weakened. If it is structurally sound, they need to redo the bridge deck and relay the tracks. They can do that pretty quickly. If they have do major repairs to the bridge structure, that is different matter.


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## danasgoodstuff

zephyr17 said:


> Seriously doubt they'd detour over CORP's Siskiyou Line. Much of it is 10 mph. It would take a very long time.
> 
> SP ran local passenger trains over the line until the late 1950s. There were two, one ran from Black Butte junction to Medford, the other Eugene-Medford. One was named _Rogue River, _forget the name of the other one.
> 
> Sometime in the 1990s I think ODOT ran a demonstration train from Eugene as far as Roseburg, maybe even to Medford. It didn't go over Siskiyou Summit, though.


I've seen time tables from earlier when they ran alternate routes Ptld to SF, thru Ashland was 2 hours slower than thru K Falls, even though it's shorter, IIRC.


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## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> Seriously doubt they'd detour over CORP's Siskiyou Line. Much of it is 10 mph. It would take a very long time.


Hows the scenery on the route?


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## coalman

desertflyer said:


> In better times.





zephyr17 said:


> Um, the fire was on the Union Pacific (ex-SP) portion of the Coast Starlight, route. The train only runs on BNSF between Seattle and Portland.
> 
> Sounds like something got lost in translation. Burlington Northern (which no longer exists, having merged with the Santa Fe in 1996 to form BNSF) would not have been involved except maybe to lend equipment and/or workers to UP if UP asked.
> 
> With that aside, what was the customer service representative offering for reaccommodation/compensation?


thanks for the accurate information. He was working on trip continuation. They were paying for overnight hotel stays and Uber. I don't know what they were doing for connecting transportation like flights. They said customer service would contact us in a couple of days about trip compensation for what we paid.


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## zephyr17

danasgoodstuff said:


> I've seen time tables from earlier when they ran alternate routes Ptld to SF, thru Ashland was 2 hours slower than thru K Falls, even though it's shorter, IIRC.


The Cascade Line ("Natron Cutoff") was opened in the 1920s because it was faster and far better engineered than the 1870s Siskiyou Line even if it was a bit longer.

The Siskiyou line would be a lot slower now, because a lot of what had been 25/30 mph line is now 10 mph.

Finally, Siskiyou Tunnel has really restricted clearance. Am not at all sure it would clear Superliners.


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## zephyr17

Cal said:


> Hows the scenery on the route?


It would be really good, with plenty of time to enjoy it.


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## danasgoodstuff

coalman said:


> thanks for the accurate information. He was working on trip continuation. They were paying for overnight hotel stays and Uber. I don't know what they were doing for connecting transportation like flights. They said customer service would contact us in a couple of days about trip compensation for what we paid.


We hit someone racing the train for the crossing on the Cascades a few years ago and I missed my connection to VIA in Vancouver even though I told them about it and they could've gotten my there in time so I had a hotel stay and flew to SK the next day at my own expense. They did jack for me. Thought I had trip insurance but couldn't find it. Just ate hundreds extra.


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## danasgoodstuff

danasgoodstuff said:


> We hit someone racing the train for the crossing on the Cascades a few years ago and I missed my connection to VIA in Vancouver even though I told them about it and they could've gotten my there in time so I had a hotel stay and flew to SK the next day at my own expense. They did jack for me. Thought I had trip insurance but couldn't find it. Just ate hundreds extra.


I got to my brother's wedding in SK (sooner, 'cause I flew) and I wasn't in front of the train, so it worked out. And I got to ride VIA back to Van.


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## Steve4031

I’m staying in Mt. Shasta. The smoke the fire is visible from miles away. So far no evacuation discussion for Mt. Shasta. Only Weed.


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## Cal

Steve4031 said:


> I’m staying in Mt. Shasta. The smoke the fire is visible from miles away. So far no evacuation discussion for Mt. Shasta. Only Weed.


Stay safe!


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## Willbridge

zephyr17 said:


> Seriously doubt they'd detour over CORP's Siskiyou Line. Much of it is 10 mph. It would take a very long time.
> 
> SP ran local passenger trains over the line until the late 1950s. There were two, one ran from Black Butte junction to Medford, the other Eugene-Medford. One was named _Rogue River, _forget the name of the other one.
> 
> Sometime in the 1990s I think ODOT ran a demonstration train from Eugene as far as Roseburg, maybe even to Medford. It didn't go over Siskiyou Summit, though.


I was asked to study use of the Siskiyou Line in 1974 when it was still owned by the SP. It would have taken five hours longer than the Cascade Line and it's probably slower now.

The last SP passenger train over the Siskiyou Summit, running Dunsmuir<>Grants Pass, had no name. It was replaced with a Pacific Greyhound (SP) bus connection in 1952. The _Rogue River, _running Portland<>Ashland ran till February 1955.

In earlier years, Amtrak used the Inside Gateway line for detours but I don't know of them using the Sacramento<>Klamath Falls segment since the UP got control of the WP.


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## nendee

Yes, this is certainly not good for that line.


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## AmtrakBlue

A friend sent this to me last night. Said it’s estimated to take several months to repair.


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## Steve4031

Cal said:


> Stay safe!



I will. I monitor weather forecasts.


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## railiner

Willbridge said:


> I was asked to study use of the Siskiyou Line in 1974 when it was still owned by the SP. It would have taken five hours longer than the Cascade Line and it's probably slower now.
> 
> The last SP passenger train over the Siskiyou Summit, running Dunsmuir<>Grants Pass, had no name. It was replaced with a Pacific Greyhound (SP) bus connection in 1952. The _Rogue River, _running Portland<>Ashland ran till February 1955.
> 
> In earlier years, Amtrak used the Inside Gateway line for detours but I don't know of them using the Sacramento<>Klamath Falls segment since the UP got control of the WP.


If anyone hears of the Coast Starlight being sent on a detour route, such as the Inside Gateway, please tip us off here. I'd jump on a chance to ride that "rare mileage"....


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## AmtrakBlue

railiner said:


> If anyone hears of the Coast Starlight being sent on a detour route, such as the Inside Gateway, please tip us off here. I'd jump on a chance to ride that "rare mileage"....


People on FB say are saying a reroute is highly unlikely. Most likely scenario will be a bus bridge between Sacramento & Klamath


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## railiner

AmtrakBlue said:


> People on FB say are saying a reroute is highly unlikely. Most likely scenario will be a bus bridge between Sacramento & Klamath


Yeah...that's what I figured, and what they do usually, now. The detour adds too much time to make it a viable solution.


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## Barb Stout

Danib62 said:


> So much for my honeymoon


Where were you going to go for your honeymoon?


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## Danib62

We're travelling down the pacific coast from Seattle to San Diego doing a mix of train and driving. We were going to take the CS from PDX to EMY but I guess we'll have to make alternate plans now...


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## Palmetto

I wonder if any trains could detour up to Eugene using the Southern Pacific's [ now CORP] Siskyou Line. In its heyday, that was the only route available. It would definitely cause a sizeable delay to Amtrak trains though. Klamath Falls and Chemult would be missed stops. Probably a bus bridge will happen for Amtrak.


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## IowaRails

Any thoughts on when UP will get a crew out there? Are there any freight forums to monitor?


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## IowaRails

AmtrakBlue said:


> A friend sent this to me last night. Said it’s estimated to take several months to repair.
> 
> View attachment 23284


Is that the Hotlum Trestle?


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## TinCan782

I would think if UP was "detouring", Amtrak would not be part of that detour. 
They would have more than enough freight traffic to handle and keep running.


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## jis

Palmetto said:


> I wonder if any trains could detour up to Eugene using the Southern Pacific's [ now CORP] Siskyou Line. In its heyday, that was the only route available. It would definitely cause a sizeable delay to Amtrak trains though. Klamath Falls and Chemult would be missed stops. Probably a bus bridge will happen for Amtrak.


I understand that the Siskyou Line is now a 10mph line(as mentioned in a post above). It is unlikely to see any detours, specially of the Amtrak variety.


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## Danib62

As of now Amtrak is still just saying service disrupted through 7/1 which seems like a super optimistic outlook given the photos shared here...


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## AmtrakBlue

IowaRails said:


> Is that the Hotlum Trestle?


Yes


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## Asher

AmtrakBlue said:


> A friend sent this to me last night. Said it’s estimated to take several months to repair.
> 
> Wow, that is substantial damage.
> You also mentioned bus from Sacramento to Klamath Falls. That’s probably not the worst situation as it’s at night.
> View attachment 23284


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## Danib62

Another data point is it seems that Amtrak will not sell you a ticket on the CS until July 6th at the earliest. Everything earlier returns no available service.


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## Just-Thinking-51

This is Union Pacific Track. The bridge will be inspected once it safe to enter the area. Then repair in days, maybe a week. This company may have issues, resources to rebuild a fire damage bridges is not one.


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## SwedeC

Lava Fire photos: see the desolation left behind


See the aftermath: photos taken from the railroad tracks east of Highway 97 show the desolation left behind after the Lava Fire raged through on June 27, 2021.




www.mtshastanews.com





Pictures of "Lava Fire" desolation in Mt Shasta (CA) news, as of 8am 6/30/2021.


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## danasgoodstuff

Now that I've found a decent map of the BNSF 'Inside Gateway' line to K Falls (it's well to the east of the UP line most of the way), that's probably a better detour choice since it avoids the tortuously slow Siskiyou Summit line. It would probably still add some to trip times, but maybe not since it would miss several N Cal stops entirely. No idea how heavily used it is. But if the UP can really restore service in a couple of weeks, it's probably not worth doing the work it would take to make a rail detour work.


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## danasgoodstuff

danasgoodstuff said:


> We hit someone racing the train for the crossing on the Cascades a few years ago and I missed my connection to VIA in Vancouver even though I told them about it and they could've gotten my there in time so I had a hotel stay and flew to SK the next day at my own expense. They did jack for me. Thought I had trip insurance but couldn't find it. Just ate hundreds extra.


It is sad, especially if there's a passenger, but I don't know how many times or ways it can be said - don't race or otherwise mess with a train, you're going to lose in a big way.


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## Cal

I have reservations on 14 and 11 in mid August, personally I want it to be detoured simply so I can see scenery that very few people see. Doesn't the BNSF "Inside Gateway" go through the Keddie Wye? Oh, how it would be amazing to go over that, even at night. 

Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.


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## MikefromCrete

Cal said:


> I have reservations on 14 and 11 in mid August, personally I want it to be detoured simply so I can see scenery that very few people see. Doesn't the BNSF "Inside Gateway" go through the Keddie Wye? Oh, how it would be amazing to go over that, even at night.
> 
> Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.


 I wouldn't count on it. That detour would take the train way out of the way and would add many hours to the trip. The former SP line which is nearby is not fit for passenger service, so a bus bridge is the most likely solution.


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## Cal

MikefromCrete said:


> I wouldn't count on it. That detour would take the train way out of the way and would add many hours to the trip. The former SP line which is nearby is not fit for passenger service, so a bus bridge is the most likely solution.


Yep. I can dream.


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## west point

Amtrak now cancelled thru July 14rh. Any one with link to the inside gateway map. What would even be better if someone could come up with an ETT.


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## danasgoodstuff

west point said:


> Amtrak now cancelled thru July 14rh. Any one with link to the inside gateway map. What would even be better if someone could come up with an ETT.




As you can see, the BNSF line in question diverges from the UP(SP) route pretty early, so you'd miss a lot of stops. A bus bridge would avoid that issue.


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## Brian Battuello

I've been checking google news for anything about the dry canyon/hotlum trestle/bridge, and not much pops up. I hope that's a good sign. I saw the picture from the side posted in #53 above, hard to believe there could be so much damage to one section without affecting the strength of the remaining bridge. 

I guess a more detailed report will come along eventually.


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## Danib62

Yea it’s weird this hasn’t had any real mainstream press coverage…


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## Barb Stout

Danib62 said:


> Yea it’s weird this hasn’t had any real mainstream press coverage…


Maybe the press is preoccupied with the Surfside condo disaster.


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## Danib62

I think the local press out in Northern California can walk and chew gum.


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## Danib62

Not looking good


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## AmtrakBlue

When I posted the picture of the damage I said it was expected to take several months to repair. My source was told this by a RR professional.


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## Brian Battuello

Again, disrupted isn't cancelled. Amtrak will decide if they want to run a bus bridge or simply not provide service north of Sacramento. Could go either way. Not that bus bridges are much fun, either for sleepers, coaches or food service. 

I'm sure any RR expert would say that it will be at least several months, but until they do a detailed analysis of every beam, we won't know if it is months or years. I wouldn't want to ride over steel exposed to 1000+ heat!


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## Danib62

Someone once told me that jet fuel can’t melt steel and you expect me to believe some burning trees did /sarcasm


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## Brian Battuello

Melt it, no. Weaken it, yes. And dry trees burn very very hot. Try sticking an old Christmas tree in a fireplace and see what happens.

I'm no structural engineer or even metallurgist. But I've seen car fires collapse freeways, and freeway beams are a lot bigger than the carefully designed thin web of steel that railroad bridges are made of. 

Take a look at the collapsed beams in the picture. There was no train weight on them, they stopped supporting the bridge weight and buckled on their own. Forget passengers, I wouldn't want to be the first lumber train over the bridge.

But this is all speculation. At some point UP will make a more detailed announcement.


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## DennisInGeorgia

Brian Battuello said:


> I've been checking google news for anything about the dry canyon/hotlum trestle/bridge, and not much pops up. I hope that's a good sign. I saw the picture from the side posted in #53 above, hard to believe there could be so much damage to one section without affecting the strength of the remaining bridge.
> 
> I guess a more detailed report will come along eventually.


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## jiml

Danib62 said:


> Not looking good View attachment 23340


August 15th? Wow.


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## mlanoue

I see on Transitdocs and Amtrak's Track-a-Train that #14 is heading toward Eugene only 33 minutes late. Several stops in California have no data. So, they must be already running the bus bridge. Or a detour. I didn't check it out earlier to see the route.


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## AmtrakBlue

mlanoue said:


> I see on Transitdocs and Amtrak's Track-a-Train that #14 is heading toward Eugene only 33 minutes late. Several stops in California have no data. So, they must be already running the bus bridge. Or a detour. I didn't check it out earlier to see the route.


Bus bridges were announced to run through today. Whether or not they continue is unknown (unless an updated service alert has been posted).


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## Danib62

Anyone think I'll be able to convince Amtrak to reroute my PDX-EMY trip through CHI by taking the EB to CZ?


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## AmtrakBlue

Danib62 said:


> Anyone think I'll be able to convince Amtrak to reroute my PDX-EMY trip through CHI by taking the EB to CZ?


Sure but it will cost you $$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Bob Dylan

Amtrak.com is now showing a Bus Bridge between Sacramento and Klammath Falls effective 6/29-TBD for #11 and #14, which is good news since the Trains,aren't cancelled.

The Bad News is that the Overnight will be on a Bus, not in your Room or on the Train.

No word on whether Sleeping Car Charges will be reworked or Refunds issued to already Booked Passengers!


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## Willbridge

AmtrakBlue said:


> Bus bridges were announced to run through today. Whether or not they continue is unknown (unless an updated service alert has been posted).


I just tiptoed through the reservation system and it shows Train 11 cancelled through Bastille Day, July 14th, from Seattle to Portland. It's an appropriate date, as in recent years they've been eager to cancel huge portions of long-distance trains, then been attacked in local media and by the state and national RPA's and finally run part of the route with a bus bridge where possible.

I'm sure my congresswoman's staff in Denver will appreciate spending time getting Amtrak to run trains. First, they'll have to be briefed that there are multiple choices of solutions that are all better than what they have set up. Eugene's congressman is working on delivering a billion dollars to Amtrak; he'll have to mention to Gardner that a train can be turned in Eugene or Klamath Falls.

If they can't set up a SAC<>KFS bus bridge to protect my reservation I might as well make another trip to DC.



(Photo from visiting to save _SWC _from being cleaved in two.)


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## zephyr17

Bob Dylan said:


> Amtrak.com is now showing a Bus Bridge between Sacramento and Klammath Falls effective 6/29-TBD for #11 and #14, which is good news since the Trains,aren't cancelled.
> 
> The Bad News is that the Overnight will be on a Bus, not in your Room or on the Train.
> 
> No word on whether Sleeping Car Charges will be reworked or Refunds issued to already Booked Passengers!


Where on Amtrak.com did you see that the bus bridge was open ended? I just looked after seeing your post and the service advisory still says 6/29-7/1.

"Effective June 29, 2021
Coast Starlight Train 14, departing Los Angeles on 6/29 through 7/1, will operate as a bus bridge between Sacramento (SAC) and Klamath Falls (KFS) due to wildfires on the route."

And phantom reservation attempts still come up with it being cancelled. Schedules tab now does, too


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## Cal

On the Amtrak App at Service Alerts and Notices it says that "Coast Starlight Disrupted Due to Wildfires, Effective Jun 29th - August 15th'. When you click it it says through July 1st, however it's July 1st and the bridge is definitely not repaired. 


I have a reservation on the Starlight in August, during the time the bus bridge is in place. I'm deciding not to cancel as I'm young, and have never experienced a bus bridge before so might as well knock it off the list (an Amtrak bingo night would be great). And I'd like to ride along the Puget Sound before it's re-routed.


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## zephyr17

I do not think the bus bridge is continuing past today.

On the Schedules tab, the whole route shows today:



and shows as cancelled tomorrow 



Also, a bit ago, before the train got to Portland, I checked and 11 was bookable PDX-KFS today. It isn't tomorrow, also showing as cancelled on the reservation page.

The train is again bookable for the entire route starting again on July 15th. I agree you should wait to take any action until at least July 15th and see what the status is then.


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## oregon pioneer

Hubby and I had tickets on the CS and TE for a trip to Texas two days after the big Oakridge slide. When the slide happened and took out the tracks through the Cascades, Amtrak contacted us and offered a bus bridge to SAC. But they also said that ALL service would be cancelled after a few days, and our return trip was not guaranteed beyond SAC (translate: we were on our own to get home from there). No bus brisge, no nothing. The train was entirely cancelled. It actually took over three months to get the tracks back in service. They did have to wait for the snow to melt, so perhaps this repair will be quicker.

We opted to cancel the trip entirely, and received a full refund.


----------



## zephyr17

The Oakridge slide was a much bigger deal that this trestle. It was huge and on reverse curves so it actually took out two levels of track. It was a huge job to stabilize what was most of a mountain and reconstruct the railroad.


----------



## Trogdor

The train is bookable on the south end (LAX-SAC), but not the north end.


----------



## Willbridge

Trogdor said:


> The train is bookable on the south end (LAX-SAC), but not the north end.


That's why my squawk and the recollections of the Oakridge slide are posted above. They tried to discontinue the route north of Sacramento before, a la the _Sunset_ east of NOL. It took political pressure to restore the service with a KFS<>EUG bus bridge if I recall correctly.


----------



## zephyr17

That isn't my recollection. Amtrak restored service pretty quickly after UP physically restored the line. I do not recall any question that service would be resumed once a seriously devastated piece of railroad was reconstructed.


----------



## railiner

Makes me wonder what the UP would do today, if there ever was a repeat of the Thistle, Utah slide, that closed the then D&RGW for a few months in 1983. I doubt they would go to the length's to reopen it that they did back then. The CZ would probably be permanently rerouted thru Wyoming. Maybe, Amtrak or the state would run a Denver-Grand Junction local or tourist train....


----------



## Keith1951

Brian Battuello said:


> I've been checking google news for anything about the dry canyon/hotlum trestle/bridge, and not much pops up. I hope that's a good sign. I saw the picture from the side posted in #53 above, hard to believe there could be so much damage to one section without affecting the strength of the remaining bridge.
> 
> I guess a more detailed report will come along eventually.


I just googled it and got many results.


----------



## Danib62

Here is the latest official word from Amtrak:



> Amtrak Coast Starlight Trains Canceled
> 
> Between Seattle and Sacramento until mid-July
> 
> Amtrak Cascades Trains Provide Substitute Transportation Seattle-Eugene
> 
> 
> 
> Trains 11 & 14 are unable to operate between Seattle and Sacramento due to a temporary track closure by the Union Pacific Railroad. Until on or about July 14, these Amtrak Coast Starlight trains will operate only between Los Angeles and Sacramento.
> 
> Customers booked between Seattle and Eugene are welcomed aboard Amtrak Cascades trains. No other substitute transportation is available. Refunds are being provided.


----------



## zephyr17

railiner said:


> Makes me wonder what the UP would do today, if there ever was a repeat of the Thistle, Utah slide, that closed the then D&RGW for a few months in 1983. I doubt they would go to the length's to reopen it that they did back then. The CZ would probably be permanently rerouted thru Wyoming. Maybe, Amtrak or the state would run a Denver-Grand Junction local or tourist train....


Have to agree there. In 1983 the line was D&RGW's one and only mainline. They had to restore it to have a railroad, and they also had heavy coal traffic from on line sources.

Today the line is effectively redundant for UP. One thing that get little notice here is there is almost no traffic west of Grand Junction. Amtrak and a BNSF trackage rights freight is all. It is so lightly trafficked PTC isn't required for passenger service. It has quietly become another Raton.

If anything major happened, especially something on the scale of the Thistle slide which required construction of some miles of brand new railroad, there is no question in my mind that UP would embargo or abandon the line.

I think it is in some danger even just sitting there fully intact and operational because it is hosting no UP traffic at all. The only reason I can think of that UP has not already at least embargoed it is they don't to want give BNSF the opportunity to grab it.


----------



## Cal

Danib62 said:


> Here is the latest official word from Amtrak:


Good. Won't effect my travel (other than the bus bridge)


----------



## George Harris

Danib62 said:


> Someone once told me that jet fuel can’t melt steel and you expect me to believe some burning trees did /sarcasm


It doesn't have to actually melt it, but it can get it hot enough to lose its strength. Years ago I saw a set of steel frame supported wood bleacher stadium and roof after it had burned at many of the steel beams looked like they had become wet spaghetti. To go to the horse's mouth for some information, from the AISC (American Institute of Steel Construction) web site,
"The strength of steel remains essentially unchanged until about 600°F. The steel retains about 50% of its strength at 1100°F. The steel loses all of its capacity when it melts at about 2700°F. However, for design purposes, it is usually assumed that all capacity is lost at about 2200°F."
. . . .
A general rule of thumb reads: “If it is still straight after exposure to fire – the steel is OK”. Straightening techniques are also available for steel members that have been misaligned after fire exposure."

From Fire Engineering: "_At approximately 1,100 °F, steel will start to fail. At this temperature, the steel begins to expand and twist."_

Another site says, "The lack of deformation in a loaded condition is a visual clue that the steel was not heated to a temperature sufficient to result in the formation of martensite during the fire, and as a result, the steel's mechanical properties were probably not altered by the fire."
. . . .
And yes, forest fires can get hot enough to reach temperatures that can result in deformation of the steel, in other words above 1100F. Yes, there are inconsistencies in answers between sources. The twisted deck beams shown in the picture are really possible. The still straight column might or might not still be safe, but I would not trust them without cutting out samples for testing.


----------



## Asher

Those photos Cal and D Flyer posted show exactly how hot that fire was to buckle the rails and completely burn away the ties in that one area. Sort of looks like all the movement on top is what caused all the distortion down below the rails.


----------



## MARC Rider

zephyr17 said:


> Have to agree there. In 1983 the line was D&RGW's one and only mainline. They had to restore it to have a railroad, and they also had heavy coal traffic from on line sources.
> 
> Today the line is effectively redundant for UP. One thing that get little notice here is there is almost no traffic west of Grand Junction. Amtrak and a BNSF trackage rights freight is all. It is so lightly trafficked PTC isn't required for passenger service. It has quietly become another Raton.
> 
> If anything major happened, especially something on the scale of the Thistle slide which required construction of some miles of brand new railroad, there is no question in my mind that UP would embargo or abandon the line.
> 
> I think it is in some danger even just sitting there fully intact and operational because it is hosting no UP traffic at all. The only reason I can think of that UP has not already at least embargoed it is they don't to want give BNSF the opportunity to grab it.


Maybe it's time for state and local interests to make an offer to buy the line and have it run by a shortline who's interested in providing service to the region rather than a bunch of MBAs who want to manipulate the manipulate company's value on the stock exchange.


----------



## zephyr17

Since the "endangered" part of the line is mostly in Utah, it would have to come from Utah.

Note that I've not heard any rumblings about UP actually doing something. It is just that the traffic level is so low.

I do think BNSF would grab it if UP tried to embargo it.


----------



## Willbridge

zephyr17 said:


> That isn't my recollection. Amtrak restored service pretty quickly after UP physically restored the line. I do not recall any question that service would be resumed once a seriously devastated piece of railroad was reconstructed.


The issue was that during that project they started out by turning the train at Sacramento. They only went as far north as Klamath Falls and put on a bus bridge after protests. And my dad was at a meeting at which an Amtrak staffer claimed in a condescending manner that it wasn't possible to run a passenger train on the Inside Gateway from Klamath Falls to Portland. As he (and I) had ridden that line and as Amtrak had used that detour before, her answer stuck in his memory.

Given the protests that they got I'm sure that they understood the need to reopen as soon as the work was safely completed. The temporary Katrina shutdown showed what happens if people don't get on something right away.


----------



## Triley

Willbridge said:


> I just tiptoed through the reservation system and it shows Train 11 cancelled through Bastille Day, July 14th, from Seattle to Portland. It's an appropriate date, as in recent years they've been eager to cancel huge portions of long-distance trains, then been attacked in local media and by the state and national RPA's and finally run part of the route with a bus bridge where possible.
> 
> I'm sure my congresswoman's staff in Denver will appreciate spending time getting Amtrak to run trains. First, they'll have to be briefed that there are multiple choices of solutions that are all better than what they have set up. Eugene's congressman is working on delivering a billion dollars to Amtrak;* he'll have to mention to Gardner that a train can be turned in Eugene or Klamath Falls.*



Part of the issue with doing a bus bridge is the fact that SEA is so short staffed, we can barely crew the Builder, even with giving the coach jobs to CHI crew base for the time being. (Getting new hires in SEA is hard these days...) So unless they fly LAX crews to/from SEA to work the train, there won't be anyone to work it.

I do agree a bus bridge is the best solution, or convincing WDOT/ODOT to run an additional Cascades train to at least Eugene in its place, but ultimately...I don't know what will happen. Will be interesting to see.


----------



## Triley

Danib62 said:


> Here is the latest official word from Amtrak:



Just to clarify the alert, passengers are welcome aboard the two existing Cascades trains servicing SEA/EUG. No replacement train is being offered.


----------



## Cal

Triley said:


> Part of the issue with doing a bus bridge is the fact that SEA is so short staffed, we can barely crew the Builder, even with giving the coach jobs to CHI crew base for the time being. (Getting new hires in SEA is hard these days...) So unless they fly LAX crews to/from SEA to work the train, there won't be anyone to work it.


I used to think that the EB was crewed in Chicago, and honestly I think that might be easier. Having one central crew base instead of many (as I've said before on here).


----------



## zephyr17

Especially given the situation with the Starlight, WashDOT and ODOT should start working to resume the full Cascades schedule south of Seattle as soon as possible.


----------



## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> Especially given the situation with the Starlight, WashDOT and ODOT should start working to resume the full Cascades schedule south of Seattle as soon as possible.


Do they have enough sets since selling the Talgo 6's?


----------



## zephyr17

Cal said:


> I used to think that the EB was crewed in Chicago, and honestly I think that might be easier. Having one central crew base instead of many (as I've said before on here).


Please God, not Chicago. While individuals vary, my experience with Chicago based crews is they often, shall we say, lack a customer service orientation. There is something about the culture of the Chicago base that seems to just be off.


----------



## zephyr17

Cal said:


> Do they have enough sets since selling the Talgo 6's?


Not sure. That's part of why I said start working towards. They might have to work with Amtrak to get more Horizons. In any case, I hope they are working towards restoring full service as soon as it is physically possible.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Triley said:


> Part of the issue with doing a bus bridge is the fact that SEA is so short staffed, we can barely crew the Builder, even with giving the coach jobs to CHI crew base for the time being. (Getting new hires in SEA is hard these days...) So unless they fly LAX crews to/from SEA to work the train, there won't be anyone to work it.
> 
> I do agree a bus bridge is the best solution, or convincing WDOT/ODOT to run an additional Cascades train to at least Eugene in its place, but ultimately...I don't know what will happen. Will be interesting to see.


Every time I've ridden the Portland Section( #28) of the Builder, the Sleeper was Crewed by a Chicago based SCA, not sure about the Coaches?

AFAIK, the Rest of the Crew was Seattle Based on the #8 Section!

Are there plenty of other good jobs in Seattle so that no-one wants the Amtrak OBS jobs???( With 6 Long Distance Trains to/from LAX I think that Crew Base should have enough OBS and T&E Employees to man those Trains)


----------



## Cal

Bob Dylan said:


> AFAIK, the Rest of the Crew was Seattle Based on the #8 Section!


I have no idea about my SCA last October on #28, all I know is that he was friendly. 



Bob Dylan said:


> Are there plenty of other good jobs in Seattle so that no-one wants the Amtrak OBS jobs???( With 6 Long Distance Trains to/from LAX I think that Crew Base should have enough OBS and T&E Employees to man those Trains)


6 LD trains to/from LAX?


----------



## railiner

zephyr17 said:


> I think it is in some danger even just sitting there fully intact and operational because it is hosting no UP traffic at all. The only reason I can think of that UP has not already at least embargoed it is they don't to want give BNSF the opportunity to grab it.


If I understand the agreement that granted BNSF those trackage rights, as a condition to allow the UP to buy the SP-D&RGW, if the D&RGW line wasn't maintained, then the UP would have to let the BNSF run their trackage rights trains over the Overland Route mainline, which I'm sure the UP definitely wouldn't want. I believe the BNSF would be thrilled if that ever happened, much more so than being given the chance to buy the former Rio Grande line, and have to maintain it...


----------



## zephyr17

Bob Dylan said:


> Every time I've ridden the Portland Section( #28) of the Builder, the Sleeper was Crewed by a Chicago based SCA, not sure about the Coaches?
> 
> AFAIK, the Rest of the Crew was Seattle Based on the #8 Section!
> 
> Are there plenty of other good jobs in Seattle so that no-one wants the Amtrak OBS jobs???( With 6 Long Distance Trains to/from LAX I think that Crew Base should have enough OBS and T&E Employees to man those Trains)


Yeah, the whole Portland section is staffed out of the Chicago crew base, and the Seattle section is staffed out of the Seattle crew base (Portland has no OBS crew base).

So the dining car LSA is from Seattle and the lounge car LSA is from Chicago.

The Starlight's OBS crews are based out the LA crewbase, not Seattle.


----------



## zephyr17

railiner said:


> If I understand the agreement that granted BNSF those trackage rights, as a condition to allow the UP to buy the SP-D&RGW, if the D&RGW line wasn't maintained, then the UP would have to let the BNSF run their trackage rights trains over the Overland Route mainline, which I'm sure the UP definitely wouldn't want. I believe the BNSF would be thrilled if that ever happened, much more so than being given the chance to buy the former Rio Grande line, and have to maintain it...


I didn't know the details other than them having trackage rights over the former D&RGW. But, boy howdy, I agree that BNSF would be thrilled to get on the Overland Route. If UP really wanted out from under the former D&RGW, I think they'd basically have to give it to BNSF gratis (and maybe throw in a few years of maintenance) for BNSF to even consider releasing their rights to run the Overland Route.


----------



## Triley

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, the whole Portland section is staffed out of the Chicago crew base, and the Seattle section is staffed out of the Seattle crew base (Portland has no OBS crew base).
> 
> So the dining car LSA is from Seattle and the lounge car LSA is from Chicago.
> 
> The Starlight's OBS crews are based out the LA crewbase, not Seattle.



Sort of...



Bob Dylan said:


> Every time I've ridden the Portland Section( #28) of the Builder, the Sleeper was Crewed by a Chicago based SCA, not sure about the Coaches?
> 
> AFAIK, the Rest of the Crew was Seattle Based on the #8 Section!
> 
> Are there plenty of other good jobs in Seattle so that no-one wants the Amtrak OBS jobs???( With 6 Long Distance Trains to/from LAX I think that Crew Base should have enough OBS and T&E Employees to man those Trains)



Because of being so short staffed right now in Seattle, we gave up the coach car on 27/28 to be crewed by Chicago as well. The sleepers, coaches, and lounge on 27/28 are still crewed by Chicago. The sleepers and diner on 7/8 are still crewed by Seattle, but that coach is crewed by Chicago. Freed up 11 regularly scheduled jobs, and we're still struggling.

With the minimum wage being so high in Washington, and specifically the Seattle area, it's harder to financially convince people to be away for so long. We get paid well, but when you factor in all the unpaid time that we have onboard + at the hotel, our wage drops really close to minimum wage. In fact, I would say that train attendants and food specialists make below minimum wage, if you average in the unpaid hours they're away from home. LSAs and Chefs are a few dollars over.

It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.


----------



## zephyr17

Wonder if the staffing issue is why there is still only one Seattle coach when the second sleeper got restored recently.

And, yeah, as one of the two early adopters of full recreational legalization (it's been legal here for nine years now) the dreaded weed has pretty much entirely lost any stigma. I am having to be tested in order to volunteer down at the Nevada Northern.


----------



## Triley

zephyr17 said:


> Especially given the situation with the Starlight, WashDOT and ODOT should start working to resume the full Cascades schedule south of Seattle as soon as possible.



Actually, there's already more SEA/EUG service than before Covid. There use to be 501 (SEA-PDX) at 7:25am, and 511 (PDX-EUG) at 9:30am. Now, 503 runs in place of 501, but runs to EUG. So I guess technically there's just _better_ service going down that way, since there's two direct SEA/EUG Cascades trains.

Next train to come back should be 517/518! We really need to service north of Everett again, for you.


----------



## Triley

zephyr17 said:


> Wonder if the staffing issue is why there is still only one Seattle coach when the second sleeper got restored recently.
> 
> And, yeah, as one of the two early adopters of full recreational legalization (it's been legal here for nine years now) the dreaded weed has pretty much entirely lost any stigma. I am having to be tested in order to volunteer down at the Nevada Northern.



Honestly, I'm not sure what the hold up has been. 1 coach attendant can work 2 coach cars. And when we only had the sleeper + dorm, we had the dorm staffed like a regular sleeper, because we were selling a _lot_ of rooms in there. Like double what we would usually sell.

The only thing I can think of, is the trackage rights. Since there is a cost paid to the freights per car run over the territory.


----------



## zephyr17

Yeah, I wish. But WashDOT has been very consistent and very firm that they won't restore rail service north of Seattle until the Canadian border opens and Canada seems very reticent, although there is definitely pressure building. The continued closure is getting quite a bit of coverage now, including the NY Times yesterday, and the coverage doesn't have a generally favorable slant towards the closure. I am hoping for July 21st, but pessimistically I am still really not expecting it until September.

Also, on that webinar Wednesday that Cal and I both attended, the All Aboard Washington guy said when it does resume it will only be one train initially.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Triley said:


> Sort of...
> 
> 
> 
> Because of being so short staffed right now in Seattle, we gave up the coach car on 27/28 to be crewed by Chicago as well. The sleepers, coaches, and lounge on 27/28 are still crewed by Chicago. The sleepers and diner on 7/8 are still crewed by Seattle, but that coach is crewed by Chicago. Freed up 11 regularly scheduled jobs, and we're still struggling.
> 
> With the minimum wage being so high in Washington, and specifically the Seattle area, it's harder to financially convince people to be away for so long. We get paid well, but when you factor in all the unpaid time that we have onboard + at the hotel, our wage drops really close to minimum wage. In fact, I would say that train attendants and food specialists make below minimum wage, if you average in the unpaid hours they're away from home. LSAs and Chefs are a few dollars over.
> 
> It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.


Got it, thanks! 

And with Seattle being so expensive now to live in, probably not many New Hires want to live there!( and as you said, Locals probably can't pass the drug tests!)


----------



## Bob Dylan

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, I wish. But WashDOT has been very consistent and very firm that they won't restore rail service north of Seattle until the Canadian border opens and Canada seems very reticent, although there is definitely pressure building. The continued closure is getting quite a bit of coverage now, including the NY Times yesterday, and the coverage doesn't have a generally favorable slant towards the closure. I am hoping for July 21st, but pessimistically I am still really not expecting it until September.
> 
> Also, on that webinar Wednesday that Cal and I both attended, the All Aboard Washington guy said when it does resume it will only be one train initially.


I don't look for the Canadian Border to reopen till 2022, especially if Canada can't get the Vaccines out faster,and if we have New Waves in the Fall and Winter, which is Highly Likely according to the Scientists and Medical people not till Summer!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Cal said:


> I have no idea about my SCA last October on #28, all I know is that he was friendly.
> 
> 
> 6 LD trains to/from LAX?


3 each way to/from NOL( SL/TE only 3 times a Week),SEA( CS) and CHI(SWC)= 6


----------



## TheMalahat

Bob Dylan said:


> I don't look for the Canadian Border to reopen till 2022, especially if Canada can't get the Vaccines out faster,and if we have New Waves in the Fall and Winter, which is Highly Likely according to the Scientists and Medical people not till Summer!



On the day I'm writing this, as a function of population, 10% more Americans are fully vaccinated than Canadians. But 25% more Canadians have a single dose (which means 50% more Canadians have received a vaccination), and with a vaccination rate of almost 2% of the population per day, Canada will likely exceed double vaccination by Wednesday or so. 

I really think the Canadian government is more nervous about large parts parts of the American population that are unvaccinated, and are likely to remain unvaccinated. That opens up a significant risk at the beginning of Covid mitigation to reintroduce into the pockets of Canada that aren't at high vaccination rates but have relatively speaking stamped out transmission. 

I have no idea what the right answer is, but hopefully the incredible positive progress we've seen throughout the US and Canada in the last few weeks progresses.


----------



## zephyr17

Canada is catching up on vaccinations after a slow start. 65% with the first dose and 19% both as of June 19th per the New York Times article on June 29th. Trudeau himself said 75% first dose, 20% second for opening, so they are not that far away and there appears to less vaccine resistance up there. I think they'll be open before year end, there is going to be some political pressure and some probably some pretty heavy diplomatic pressure from the US once they reach goals Trudeau himself set. I think they're probably going to require evidence of vaccination to enter, although the only evidence available to US residents is pretty flimsy and easily forged.


----------



## Triley

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, I wish. But WashDOT has been very consistent and very firm that they won't restore rail service north of Seattle until the Canadian border opens and Canada seems very reticent, although there is definitely pressure building. The continued closure is getting quite a bit of coverage now, including the NY Times yesterday, and the coverage doesn't have a generally favorable slant towards the closure. I am hoping for July 21st, but pessimistically I am still really not expecting it until September.
> 
> Also, on that webinar Wednesday that Cal and I both attended, the All Aboard Washington guy said when it does resume it will only be one train initially.



Yup, I know. I'm going to seem like "the guy who thinks he knows everything". Haha Although I work out of Seattle, I live in Vancouver, Canada. So the border closure is extremely important to me, and I'm always trying to stay in the loop.

30 days after the border opens to leisure travel, is about when the first train north will roll. I know it'll only be one train each way for the time being, and they will supposedly be 517/518.

Not to be a negative Nancy, but the quarantine requirement for Canadian citizens and residents returning from abroad hasn't even been lifted yet, that's coming July 5th. Heck, there are some provinces that even domestic travellers need to quarantine upon entering. Like I'm talking, police checkpoints at the border to ensure even entering is documented. So until the provinces lightened the restrictions, there was really no sense in the federal government relaxing the restrictions. But, both Canadian and American media conveniently left that info out of the news.



zephyr17 said:


> Canada is catching up on vaccinations after a slow start. 65% with the first dose and 19% both as of June 19th per the New York Times article on June 29th. Trudeau himself said 75% first dose, 20% second for opening, so they are not that far away and there appears to less vaccine resistance up there. I think they'll be open before year end, there is going to be some political pressure and some probably some pretty heavy diplomatic pressure from the US once they reach goals Trudeau himself set. I think they're probably going to require evidence of vaccination to enter, although the only evidence available to US residents is pretty flimsy and easily forged.



The good news here is, like you've mentioned, there are numbers set, and we are rapidly approaching them. Vaccines have really started becoming more readily available in recent week, but it's still been tough going. I received my first dose on March 26th, and was quoted July 26th for my second. I ended up getting moved up, and was able to go in on June 8th. My husband, who also works in the food industry (on a college campus, mind you), was finally able to get his _first,_ on May 29th. So it's still slow going, but it's progressing.

Regarding vaccination records, keep in mind how strict Canada is on entry requirements. If someone is caught with forged documents, it would incur a hefty (likely up to $10,000CAD) fine, as well as possible jail time, and being barred entry from Canada for a number of years. I wouldn't be shocked if Canada strikes a way to tie in to US medical records to have access to vaccination records. Canada has already made it clear that it's a fan of a so called "vaccine passport", and knowing that the US (which supplies that vast majority of foreign tourists to Canada) will not be participating in a similar program, will not settle well.


----------



## Steve Panzik

The Dry Creek Trestle was not damaged just by trees burning below it. The trestle had a ballast deck that would have a solid wood floor that held the ballast and track structure.
Once these creosote timbers caught fire and with air readily available to feed the fire like flogs on a grate, it would burn extremely hot.
A UP Track Foreman confirmed this


----------



## zephyr17

I think the issue is in the US, the vaccine records are held by state governments and not federally. Even if a voluntary vaccine passport standard were developed, there are some states that would not participate and would not allow any access to their immunization registries for it. Luckily, I doubt Washington would be one of those.

So if Canada were to require something beyond the CDC card, there would be issues. Although Canada may just be in the position to force the issue.


----------



## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> Also, on that webinar Wednesday that Cal and I both attended,


Are you referring to me?


----------



## Cal

Heres a video of the trestle a while back


----------



## zephyr17

Cal said:


> Are you referring to me?


Yeah, read a post of yours in one of the threads you were in that RPA webinar on Wednesday.


----------



## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, read a post of yours in one of the threads you were in that RPA webinar on Wednesday.


I'm afraid I was unclear, I didn't attend the RPA webinar. Were you talking about the post I sent in Amtrak Dining?


----------



## jiml

Triley said:


> Not to be a negative Nancy, but the quarantine requirement for Canadian citizens and residents returning from abroad hasn't even been lifted yet, that's coming July 5th. Heck, there are some provinces that even domestic travellers need to quarantine upon entering. Like I'm talking, police checkpoints at the border to ensure even entering is documented. So until the provinces lightened the restrictions, there was really no sense in the federal government relaxing the restrictions. *But, both Canadian and American media conveniently left that info out of the news.*
> 
> The good news here is, like you've mentioned, there are numbers set, and we are rapidly approaching them. Vaccines have really started becoming more readily available in recent week, but it's still been tough going. I received my first dose on March 26th, and was quoted July 26th for my second. I ended up getting moved up, and was able to go in on June 8th. My husband, who also works in the food industry (on a college campus, mind you), was finally able to get his _first,_ on May 29th. So it's still slow going, but it's progressing.
> 
> Regarding vaccination records, keep in mind how strict Canada is on entry requirements. If someone is caught with forged documents, it would incur a hefty (likely up to $10,000CAD) fine, as well as possible jail time, and being barred entry from Canada for a number of years. I wouldn't be shocked if Canada strikes a way to tie in to US medical records to have access to vaccination records. Canada has already made it clear that it's a fan of a so called "vaccine passport", and knowing that the US (which supplies that vast majority of foreign tourists to Canada) will not be participating in a similar program, will not settle well.


Thank you for pointing this out - particularly the portion highlighted above. Sometimes it is difficult to "buck the trend" when the media has everyone convinced how great a "one dose summer" is going to be. One day they quote medical experts in favor of maintaining lockdowns and the next how lockdowns are ruining businesses. It's like a tug-of-war on the evening news every night.


----------



## MARC Rider

Triley said:


> It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.



This is seems like it will be a growing problem as more states legalize recreational cannabis. I mean, the narrowing of the applicant pool. Seems to me like it can't be solved until (1) the Federal government legalizes cannabis, or at least leaves it up to the states explicitly, and (2) they can develop a test that shows current cannabis intoxication, just like a breathalyzer shows current alcohol intoxication. A positive on the current drug test just shows that you've used the stuff some time in the recent past; you may be perfectly sober when the test is administered. Cannabis use should be treated like alcohol use -- occasional use off the job should be OK, but, of course, being intoxicated while on the job is a no-no.


----------



## Cal

Apparently UP is completely re-building the bridge. Can anyone confirm/deny this? 

Heard about in on Instagram.


----------



## daybeers

MARC Rider said:


> This is seems like it will be a growing problem as more states legalize recreational cannabis. I mean, the narrowing of the applicant pool. Seems to me like it can't be solved until (1) the Federal government legalizes cannabis, or at least leaves it up to the states explicitly, and (2) they can develop a test that shows current cannabis intoxication, just like a breathalyzer shows current alcohol intoxication. A positive on the current drug test just shows that you've used the stuff some time in the recent past; you may be perfectly sober when the test is administered. Cannabis use should be treated like alcohol use -- occasional use off the job should be OK, but, of course, being intoxicated while on the job is a no-no.


Problem is, railroads are federally regulated. Even if it's legalized at the federal level, there will still need to be testing to make sure someone is not intoxicated while on the job. That's why #2 is so incredibly important. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to enjoy cannabis after a long day of work like they would alcohol. Also, it's sadly too easy to be a functioning alcoholic working a safety-intensive job and never get caught, but you'll get fired and probably not work another day in the transportation industry if you fail a test because of that joint you shared with your friend a month ago. It's also a DUI issue as well, as in some states that have legalized cannabis, the smell of it alone cannot be used as probable cause to search a vehicle.


----------



## Nleprohn

Triley said:


> Sort of...
> 
> 
> 
> Because of being so short staffed right now in Seattle, we gave up the coach car on 27/28 to be crewed by Chicago as well. The sleepers, coaches, and lounge on 27/28 are still crewed by Chicago. The sleepers and diner on 7/8 are still crewed by Seattle, but that coach is crewed by Chicago. Freed up 11 regularly scheduled jobs, and we're still struggling.
> 
> With the minimum wage being so high in Washington, and specifically the Seattle area, it's harder to financially convince people to be away for so long. We get paid well, but when you factor in all the unpaid time that we have onboard + at the hotel, our wage drops really close to minimum wage. In fact, I would say that train attendants and food specialists make below minimum wage, if you average in the unpaid hours they're away from home. LSAs and Chefs are a few dollars over.
> 
> It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.


Helpful info. As a Seattle resident, I'll add that it has gotten increasingly expensive to live in Seattle. Many employers have a difficult time recruiting anyone from outside Seattle to move here due to high cost of living.


----------



## daybeers

Nleprohn said:


> Helpful info. As a Seattle resident, I'll add that it has gotten increasingly expensive to live in Seattle. Many employers have a difficult time recruiting anyone from outside Seattle to move here due to high cost of living.


How has it changed since covid?


----------



## me_little_me

Cal said:


> Do they have enough sets since selling the Talgo 6's?


There should be some CS cars that are not being used with the canceled trains. Perhaps Amtrak can rent them out. Hey, WashDOT can run some shortline sleepers!


----------



## me_little_me

Triley said:


> It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.


I understand that when people in Washington are asked to take a drug test, they will say "I'll pass on that" and that is accepted as passing the test.


----------



## Asher

Steve Panzik said:


> The Dry Creek Trestle was not damaged just by trees burning below it. The trestle had a ballast deck that would have a solid wood floor that held the ballast and track structure.
> Once these creosote timbers caught fire and with air readily available to feed the fire like flogs on a grate, it would burn extremely hot.
> A UP Track Foreman confirmed this



As I mentioned in an earlier post, all that heat caused distortion to the rails that put tremendous side load on the upright structure below.


----------



## George Harris

If the picture in post 53 is of the damaged bridge, it does not to appear to have been ballasted deck. Regardless, whether wood floor under the ballast plus ties, or just timber ties, all wood has obviously been consumed. I disagree completely with the distortion in the steel structure being due to force applied by the rail. The distortion of the steel in the structure was a direct result of the heat from the fire.


----------



## Willbridge

jiml said:


> Thank you for pointing this out - particularly the portion highlighted above. Sometimes it is difficult to "buck the trend" when the media has everyone convinced how great a "one dose summer" is going to be. One day they quote medical experts in favor of maintaining lockdowns and the next how lockdowns are ruining businesses. It's like a tug-of-war on the evening news every night.


It's actually a replay of the arguments around the 1918-19 "Spanish" flu pandemic. The same conflicting interests. People argued with streetcar conductors when Portland Traction Company's predecessor was ordered to run with windows open in the winter. So the company nailed the doors open (one advantage of wooden carbodies). The same arguments occurred in Berlin, according to _Berliner Zeitung._

edited


----------



## Nleprohn

daybeers said:


> How has it changed since covid?


Not 100% sure but I'd say it is still hard for employers to hire. I retired in Nov. but I know several people at my old job who moved out of Seattle as we were all WFH since March 2020.


----------



## MARC Rider

Triley said:


> It's also not a wage thing, but...drugs. Working on the rails, for obvious reasons we have to pass a drug to test to be hired (and are subject to random tests throughout our employment). In Washington, this unfortunately narrows down the prospective applicant pool considerably.



Recreational cannabis is also legal in California, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, Virginia, and DC (sort of), among others. Is this narrowing the applicant pool at the Los Angeles, Emeryville, Chicago, Boston, and Washington crew centers?


----------



## daybeers

MARC Rider said:


> Recreational cannabis is also legal in California, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, Virginia, and DC (sort of), among others. Is this narrowing the applicant pool at the Los Angeles, Emeryville, Chicago, Boston, and Washington crew centers?


New Haven, CT too as of a few days ago.


----------



## west point

Latest Amtrak notice cancelled thru July 14th SAC - SEA. No bus bridge.
*Coast Starlight Trains Canceled Between Seattle and Sacramento until mid-July*
Friday, July 2, 2021 1:30 PM EDT* 
Amtrak Cascades Trains Provide Substitute Transportation Seattle-Eugene*

Trains 11 & 14 are unable to operate between Seattle and Sacramento due to a temporary track closure by the Union Pacific Railroad. Until on or about July 14, these Amtrak Coast Starlight trains will operate only between Los Angeles and Sacramento.

Customers booked between Seattle and Eugene are welcomed aboard Amtrak Cascades trains. No other substitute transportation is available. Refunds are being provided.

Customers with reservations on trains that are being modified will typically be accommodated on trains with similar departure times or another day. Amtrak will waive additional charges for customers looking to change their reservation during the modified schedule by calling our reservation center at 1-800-USA-RAIL.
The most up-to-date train status is availble on Amtrak.com and in the free mobile app.
Follow us on Twitter for real-time service information:

@AmtrakNECAlerts for service information in the Northeast Corridor (Acela, Northeast Regional and other corridor services).
@AmtrakAlerts for service information outside the Northeast Corridor.
Subscribe at Amtrak.com/DelayAlerts to receive automated email or text message notifications if Amtrak trains are behind schedule at specific stations.
This information is correct as of the time and date above. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.


----------



## flitcraft

daybeers said:


> How has [the cost of living in Seattle] changed since covid?



Well, without attributing direct COVID causation to the increased cost of living in Seattle, property prices are up nearly 20% in the past year, with predictable knockoff impact on rents. Gasoline is high due in part to transport, in part to gas taxes--I just filled up yesterday for $4.19 a gallon. Food prices, likewise due to transportation costs, are significantly higher than most other places--we're just a long ways out from where most food is grown! And even keeping local farms in business is expensive, since the housing inflation means higher tax valuations, leading to increased pressure on local farms to sell their land to housing developments. I buy milk from a local dairy for 6 dollars a gallon and eggs at the farmer's market for 5 dollars a dozen. (I could save by buying from supermarkets--but staples there are still priced higher than national averages.) Sales tax is over 10%, including state and local sales taxes. 

Our grad students can take out student loans for living expenses, which this year for housing, utilities, medical insurance, and food have been set at 3700 a month--which supports a definitely non-lavish lifestyle! I can't see Amtrak wages being sufficient to live in the metro area here--a person would likely have to live at least a 90 minute drive from King St Station in order to make ends meet.


----------



## Bob Dylan

flitcraft said:


> Well, without attributing direct COVID causation to the increased cost of living in Seattle, property prices are up nearly 20% in the past year, with predictable knockoff impact on rents. Gasoline is high due in part to transport, in part to gas taxes--I just filled up yesterday for $4.19 a gallon. Food prices, likewise due to transportation costs, are significantly higher than most other places--we're just a long ways out from where most food is grown! And even keeping local farms in business is expensive, since the housing inflation means higher tax valuations, leading to increased pressure on local farms to sell their land to housing developments. I buy milk from a local dairy for 6 dollars a gallon and eggs at the farmer's market for 5 dollars a dozen. (I could save by buying from supermarkets--but staples there are still priced higher than national averages.) Sales tax is over 10%, including state and local sales taxes.
> 
> Our grad students can take out student loans for living expenses, which this year for housing, utilities, medical insurance, and food have been set at 3700 a month--which supports a definitely non-lavish lifestyle! I can't see Amtrak wages being sufficient to live in the metro area here--a person would likely have to live at least a 90 minute drive from King St Station in order to make ends meet.


Wow, and we think Austin is Expensive! 

This is San Francisco and New York City type Prices!!


----------



## Asher

flitcraft said:


> Well, without attributing direct COVID causation to the increased cost of living in Seattle, property prices are up nearly 20% in the past year, with predictable knockoff impact on rents. Gasoline is high due in part to transport, in part to gas taxes--I just filled up yesterday for $4.19 a gallon. Food prices, likewise due to transportation costs, are significantly higher than most other places--we're just a long ways out from where most food is grown! And even keeping local farms in business is expensive, since the housing inflation means higher tax valuations, leading to increased pressure on local farms to sell their land to housing developments. I buy milk from a local dairy for 6 dollars a gallon and eggs at the farmer's market for 5 dollars a dozen. (I could save by buying from supermarkets--but staples there are still priced higher than national averages.) Sales tax is over 10%, including state and local sales taxes.
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Seattle used to be a great destination for a CSL trip, but it was never very convenient for renting cars because of the rentals hours of operation.The downtown area has lots of things to do and Uber makes it all easily available, but lodging is through the roof.


----------



## flitcraft

Seattle is today what the Bay Area was ten years ago. My daughter and son-in-law would love to move out here, but it would mean never being in a position to buy a house, at least till we are pushing up daisies... I love the Pacific Northwest so much, but the influx of other folks with high-paying tech jobs are Californic*ting it.


----------



## Bob Dylan

flitcraft said:


> Seattle is today what the Bay Area was ten years ago. My daughter and son-in-law would love to move out here, but it would mean never being in a position to buy a house, at least till we are pushing up daisies... I love the Pacific Northwest so much, but the influx of other folks with high-paying tech jobs are Californic*ting it.


Ditto for Austin and Central Texas!


----------



## Cal

west point said:


> Latest Amtrak notice cancelled thru July 14th SAC - SEA. No bus bridge.
> *Coast Starlight Trains Canceled Between Seattle and Sacramento until mid-July*
> Friday, July 2, 2021 1:30 PM EDT*
> Amtrak Cascades Trains Provide Substitute Transportation Seattle-Eugene*
> 
> Trains 11 & 14 are unable to operate between Seattle and Sacramento due to a temporary track closure by the Union Pacific Railroad. Until on or about July 14, these Amtrak Coast Starlight trains will operate only between Los Angeles and Sacramento.
> 
> Customers booked between Seattle and Eugene are welcomed aboard Amtrak Cascades trains. No other substitute transportation is available. Refunds are being provided.
> 
> Customers with reservations on trains that are being modified will typically be accommodated on trains with similar departure times or another day. Amtrak will waive additional charges for customers looking to change their reservation during the modified schedule by calling our reservation center at 1-800-USA-RAIL.
> The most up-to-date train status is availble on Amtrak.com and in the free mobile app.
> Follow us on Twitter for real-time service information:
> 
> @AmtrakNECAlerts for service information in the Northeast Corridor (Acela, Northeast Regional and other corridor services).
> @AmtrakAlerts for service information outside the Northeast Corridor.
> Subscribe at Amtrak.com/DelayAlerts to receive automated email or text message notifications if Amtrak trains are behind schedule at specific stations.
> This information is correct as of the time and date above. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.


This has been shown above.


----------



## danasgoodstuff

The sad irony here is that what may ultimately save passenger trains is an economic and demographic shift that is otherwise largely unfortunate in its results.


----------



## SanDiegan

Bob Dylan said:


> Ditto for Austin and Central Texas!



This Californian is considering West Virgina !


----------



## Bob Dylan

SanDiegan said:


> This Californian is considering West Virgina !


Buy some Overalls and Work Shirts and a Shotgun!


----------



## jiml

flitcraft said:


> Well, without attributing direct COVID causation to the increased cost of living in Seattle, property prices are up nearly 20% in the past year, with predictable knockoff impact on rents. Gasoline is high due in part to transport, in part to gas taxes--I just filled up yesterday for $4.19 a gallon. Food prices, likewise due to transportation costs, are significantly higher than most other places--we're just a long ways out from where most food is grown! And even keeping local farms in business is expensive, since the housing inflation means higher tax valuations, leading to increased pressure on local farms to sell their land to housing developments. I buy milk from a local dairy for 6 dollars a gallon and eggs at the farmer's market for 5 dollars a dozen. (I could save by buying from supermarkets--but staples there are still priced higher than national averages.) Sales tax is over 10%, including state and local sales taxes.
> 
> Our grad students can take out student loans for living expenses, which this year for housing, utilities, medical insurance, and food have been set at 3700 a month--which supports a definitely non-lavish lifestyle! I can't see Amtrak wages being sufficient to live in the metro area here--a person would likely have to live at least a 90 minute drive from King St Station in order to make ends meet.


Wow, if I didn't know where you lived I'd swear by your summary that you live north of the border. Those are close to BC prices, except for the gas which is currently over $6 a gallon. There are a handful of communities across North America which are becoming unaffordable and your area has obviously joined the list!


----------



## flitcraft

jiml said:


> Wow, if I didn't know where you lived I'd swear by your summary that you live north of the border. Those are close to BC prices, except for the gas which is currently over $6 a gallon.


Well, what with the exchange rate, maybe the gas is a rounding error.  And I'd cheerfully trade our somewhat cheaper gas for your health insurance system! In fact, if there was a vote to redraw the border and move it, say, 150-200 miles to the south, I'd be enthusiastic. 

But seriously, the unaffordability of a growing number of metro areas spells serious trouble long-term. We already are polarized enough without having cities where only the old who bought their homes decades ago and the wealthy can live comfortably. And, for the obligatory Amtrak tie-in, I'd be able to afford more Amtrak travel if I wasn't paying so much in basic living expenses. (That enough??)


----------



## Bob Dylan

flitcraft said:


> Well, what with the exchange rate, maybe the gas is a rounding error.  And I'd cheerfully trade our somewhat cheaper gas for your health insurance system! In fact, if there was a vote to redraw the border and move it, say, 150-200 miles to the south, I'd be enthusiastic.
> 
> But seriously, the unaffordability of a growing number of metro areas spells serious trouble long-term. We already are polarized enough without having cities where only the old who bought their homes decades ago and the wealthy can live comfortably. And, for the obligatory Amtrak tie-in, I'd be able to afford more Amtrak travel if I wasn't paying so much in basic living expenses. (That enough??)


Great synopsis of what's going on here, and why we need National Health too!


----------



## Eric in East County

Back on June 11, 2004, while waiting in the San Diego _Santa Fe Depot_ to catch _Pacific Surfliner _#763 to Santa Barbara, we overheard a conversation about a recent fire north of Santa Barbara that had damaged a trestle and closed the route to all rail traffic.

Since we would be taking the _Coast Starlight_ from Santa Barbara to Emeryville on June 13th, we asked a conductor about the damaged trestle and were told that it was in the Gaviota area, just north of Santa Barbara. The steel trestle was OK, but the wooden deck had been damaged. As a result, _Coast Starlight_ passengers were being bused between L.A. and San Luis Obispo. 

When we boarded the _Coast Starlight_ in Santa Barbara on June 13th, we heard the conductor announce that ours was the first northbound _Coast Starlight_ to cross the trestle since the fire.

Eric & Pat


----------



## oregon pioneer

Eric in East County said:


> Back on June 11, 2004...
> 
> When we boarded the _Coast Starlight_ in Santa Barbara on June 13th, we heard the conductor announce that ours was the first northbound _Coast Starlight_ to cross the trestle since the fire.



That was fast!
My friends who live in the area of the fire expect the trestle to be fixed within the three-week projection. They don't think UP will waste any time.


----------



## Cal

oregon pioneer said:


> That was fast!
> My friends who live in the area of the fire expect the trestle to be fixed within the three-week projection. They don't think UP will waste any time.


I sure hope that happens. If it does, I'll be able to enjoy views of Mount Shasta from the train, and not a bus!


----------



## Brian Battuello

I'm impressed. Amtrak alerts still say the route is closed, but that's not surprising. Can someone confirm that the CS is running normally?


----------



## Cal

Brian Battuello said:


> I'm impressed. Amtrak alerts still say the route is closed, but that's not surprising. Can someone confirm that the CS is running normally?


I think you misunderstood. @Eric in East County shared his experience from *2004 *that is similar to todays. '

The Hotlum Trestle that was damaged recently might be getting replaced entirely, but @oregon pioneer is saying that UP will probably want it done ASAP and so it might be finished quicker than estimated.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Brian Battuello said:


> I'm impressed. Amtrak alerts still say the route is closed, but that's not surprising. Can someone confirm that the CS is running normally?


It's only running between LAX to SAC


----------



## Brian Battuello

Sorry, reading too fast. In any case hoping for the best...


----------



## Eric in East County

Cal said:


> I think you misunderstood. @Eric in East County shared his experience from *2004 *that is similar to todays. '
> 
> The Hotlum Trestle that was damaged recently might be getting replaced entirely, but @oregon pioneer is saying that UP will probably want it done ASAP and so it might be finished quicker than estimated.


Cal,

Thank you for clarifying that we were talking about something that happened in 2004.

E & P


----------



## Willbridge

Cal said:


> I sure hope that happens. If it does, I'll be able to enjoy views of Mount Shasta from the train, and not a bus!


Greyhound's top fare category is refundable. Their prices have jumped up once since July 4th. I'm hoping to ride the train but we'll see. PDX<>SEA corridor fares on trains closest to the slots of missing Trains 11/14 are increasing faster than other corridor trains.

I made a discovery that I wasn't looking for while researching the annulled segment (SAC<>SEA). The SAC<>RDD daylight Thruway bus disappeared. There is a text reference and map in the current on-line Capitol Corridor pdf schedule but it didn't come up in Amtrak's reservation system. The junky San Joaquin website doesn't even show that. Its home page displays a rail-only map.

Was this a pandemic cutback or was it discontinued a while ago?


----------



## Blackwolf

Willbridge said:


> Greyhound's top fare category is refundable. Their prices have jumped up once since July 4th. I'm hoping to ride the train but we'll see. PDX<>SEA corridor fares on trains closest to the slots of missing Trains 11/14 are increasing faster than other corridor trains.
> 
> I made a discovery that I wasn't looking for while researching the annulled segment (SAC<>SEA). The SAC<>RDD daylight Thruway bus disappeared. There is a text reference and map in the current on-line Capitol Corridor pdf schedule but it didn't come up in Amtrak's reservation system. The junky San Joaquin website doesn't even show that. Its home page displays a rail-only map.
> 
> Was this a pandemic cutback or was it discontinued a while ago?



The bus is still running, as I see it regularly driving through Chico twice a day.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Willbridge said:


> Greyhound's top fare category is refundable. Their prices have jumped up once since July 4th. I'm hoping to ride the train but we'll see. PDX<>SEA corridor fares on trains closest to the slots of missing Trains 11/14 are increasing faster than other corridor trains.
> 
> I made a discovery that I wasn't looking for while researching the annulled segment (SAC<>SEA). The SAC<>RDD daylight Thruway bus disappeared. There is a text reference and map in the current on-line Capitol Corridor pdf schedule but it didn't come up in Amtrak's reservation system. The junky San Joaquin website doesn't even show that. Its home page displays a rail-only map.
> 
> Was this a pandemic cutback or was it discontinued a while ago?


Maybe the roads were/are closed, due to fires, where it travels??


----------



## Willbridge

AmtrakBlue said:


> Maybe the roads were/are closed, due to fires, where it travels??


As best as I can tell from media and knowledge of the area the fires are north of Redding so far. Given Blackwolf's info, this may be yet another Amtrak IT failure. I'll give it a try again. ("The definition of insanity is trying Amtrak reservations repeatedly.")


----------



## Brian Battuello

Willbridge said:


> "The definition of insanity is trying Amtrak reservations repeatedly."



Took me all afternoon, but I finally got the system to complete my Covid pre-check for my train tomorrow. Insanity indeed.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Brian Battuello said:


> Took me all afternoon, but I finally got the system to complete my Covid pre-check for my train tomorrow. Insanity indeed.


I have NOT had to do a COVID pre-check on any of my 7 Amtrak Trips since April( AUS-DAL-AUS/AUS-ALP-AUS/NYP-BWI and AUS-TPL-AUS.

All trips were booked on Line except the AUS-DAL-AUS trip where I used AGR Points.


----------



## Brian Battuello

Got a text message from Amtrak around noon reminding me that I hadn't done it. 




Pretty simple, once I got to the right page.


----------



## Cal

Bob Dylan said:


> I have NOT had to do a COVID pre-check on any of my 7 Amtrak Trips since April( AUS-DAL-AUS/AUS-ALP-AUS/NYP-BWI and AUS-TPL-AUS.
> 
> All trips were booked on Line except the AUS-DAL-AUS trip where I used AGR Points.


I had to do one for my Surfline trip. Although I don't think they would've done anything if I didn't do it


----------



## Willbridge

Following up on the disappearance of Redding Thruway service:

I found this in the San Joaquins website.

*RT 3 – Stockton – Sacramento – Chico – Redding – 2 Round-Trips Between Stockton-Sacramento-Chico-Redding and 1 Round-Trip Between Stockton-Sacramento-Chico***

Bus Numbers Still Operating: 3710, 3810, 3712, 3812, 3716, 3816, 3718*, *3711, 3811, 3713, 3813, 3865, 3715, 3815, 3646, 3819
Of course without public timetables it's hard to tell which trips those are. Following up on Blackwolf's observation I tried OKJ and EMY to Chico. The Amtrak website worked fine for that. Then I tried OKJ and EMY to RDD again and only the canceled Train 14 showed. And the Alert still shows no alternatives north of Sacramento, except for EUG<>SEA.

I checked southbound with similar results. One of our cities is missing!


----------



## Jeffreymg

Hoping the rails get fixed I l am taking the CS on 8/5 from Emeryville to Portland

JeffG


----------



## Bob Dylan

Jeffreymg said:


> Hoping the rails get fixed I l am taking the CS on 8/5 from Emeryville to Portland
> 
> JeffG


Be ready with Plan B!!!


----------



## Willbridge

With some outside help for me, here's the way to find Redding's Thruway buses.

If one types in "Redding" the Amtrak website shows RDD first-- the train side of the station area. Thruway buses (and Greyhound) are found at the second listing. If instead one types in RDR the bus side comes up.

And there is an attractive pdf schedule. To find it:

Amtrak Train Stations & Schedules, CA | Amtrak San Joaquins

One would think that would show schedules, but there's another step. Look for the small grey box that says "Amtrak San Joaquins Timetables" to get the pdf OR click on the top line heading that reads "Stations and Schedules" and then click on "Thruway Bus Routes". That path leads to individual bus route timetables formatted for mobile displays.

It would have helped if Amtrak's travel alert specified where Thruway buses are available at stops on the Coast Starlight route.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Union Pacific tracks heavily damaged in Lava Fire


SISKIYOU COUNTY, Calif. - The Lava Fire in Siskiyou County has caused 25,000 acres of destruction at the base of Mount Shasta. Timber, grass, brush, are just some of the burned vegetation in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest. So far, vegetation is not the only property damaged by the fire. The high




www.klamathfallsnews.org


----------



## Cal

UP closes railroad line through northern California until Lava Fire damage is repaired 

Heres another article with pictures


----------



## Brian Battuello

Ouch. From the pictures, looks like they have removed a significant section of the bridge.


----------



## TinCan782

Link previously posted in #189.


----------



## Cal

FrensicPic said:


> From the Klamath Falls News, not looking good for re-opening the line soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Union Pacific tracks heavily damaged in Lava Fire
> 
> 
> SISKIYOU COUNTY, Calif. - The Lava Fire in Siskiyou County has caused 25,000 acres of destruction at the base of Mount Shasta. Timber, grass, brush, are just some of the burned vegetation in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest. So far, vegetation is not the only property damaged by the fire. The high
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.klamathfallsnews.org


This was posted above in post 189


----------



## SouthwestDude

Outage will extend into some or all of August…









Amtrak won't reach Klamath Falls after fire damages tracks


The Lava Fire, still burning near Mount Shasta in Northern California, damaged a portion of the Union Pacific Railroad on the Shasta-Trinity National Forest. The damage has forced freight traffic




www.heraldandnews.com


----------



## Danib62

> “We are certain the outage will extend into some or all of August and are looking at what is the best option for the next several weeks,” Marc Magliari, public relations manager for Amtrak government affairs and corporate communications said in an announcement Thursday.



Is it too much to ask that they keep their passengers with reservations in the loop with what’s going on? Says this to the press but they’ll still sell tickets on the assumption of a July 14th restoration.


----------



## Ryan

No they won't. If you try to book LAX-SEA after the 14th but before the end of the month, it offers you the CS to SAC, a bus to KFS, and then a train the rest of the way. Sounds like they recognize a reality of the situation and have made arraignments for a bus bridge to be in place for as long as is necessary.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Danib62 said:


> Is it too much to ask that they keep their passengers with reservations in the loop with what’s going on? Says this to the press but they’ll still sell tickets on the assumption of a July 14th restoration.


I’m sure they’ll let the pax know when they know. All they told the media is that they’re looking into options.


----------



## Danib62

Well seems like the shoe dropped. Still haven't heard anything from Amtrak but if you try to book from PDX-EMY it’s bussing you from KFS to SAC… time to book a flight and a hotel and pester Amtrak for my points back.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

UP is replacing the whole bridge.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Ryan said:


> No they won't. If you try to book LAX-SEA after the 14th but before the end of the month, it offers you the CS to SAC, a bus to KFS, and then a train the rest of the way. Sounds like they recognize a reality of the situation and have made arraignments for a bus bridge to be in place for as long as is necessary.


This.


----------



## Danib62

Ryan said:


> No they won't. If you try to book LAX-SEA after the 14th but before the end of the month, it offers you the CS to SAC, a bus to KFS, and then a train the rest of the way. Sounds like they recognize a reality of the situation and have made arraignments for a bus bridge to be in place for as long as is necessary.





Bob Dylan said:


> This.


Ok when I posted they hadn't yet updated it in their system. Seems they finally have... though they haven't reached out to customers who already have reservations. Mine's just completely disappeared from the app and if you try to access it from the website it just gives you an error when you click on it.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Danib62 said:


> Ok when I posted they hadn't yet updated it in their system. Seems they finally have... though they haven't reached out to customers who already have reservations. Mine's just completely disappeared from the app and if you try to access it from the website it just gives you an error when you click on it.


Get on the horn and call so Amtrak can send you an Update with a pdf of your rez!


----------



## Danib62

Sitting on a bus for the overnight portion of the trip as appealing as that sounds is not for me, I’ll be asking for my points back.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Danib62 said:


> Sitting on a bus for the overnight portion of the trip as appealing as that sounds is not for me, I’ll be asking for my points back.


That bus sounds better than what the riders of the SWC are getting today. They have a 7+ hour bus ride between Kansas City and Chicago due to a freight derailment. And it certainly sounds better than being stuck in an airplane on the ground for hours, which has happened to people. Be glad Amtrak is easier to deal with than airlines as for getting your money/points back.


----------



## zephyr17

I just checked Amtrak's dynamic Schedules feature (yes, I prefer timetables, too, but this is coming in handy right now) and it is showing a bus bridge until Tuesday, September 7th, with the train resuming running the entire route on Wednesday, September 8th.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

AmtrakBlue said:


> That bus sounds better than what the riders of the SWC are getting today. They have a 7+ hour bus ride between Kansas City and Chicago due to a freight derailment. And it certainly sounds better than being stuck in an airplane on the ground for hours, which has happened to people. Be glad Amtrak is easier to deal with than airlines as for getting your money/points back.


Edit: Just checked the CS schedule and I see the bus bridge is 7 hours also


----------



## Brian Battuello

I think their guess is as good as ours.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Brian Battuello said:


> I think their guess is as good as ours.


I think their guess is better than ours as they are certainly in touch with UP.


----------



## Brian Battuello

Can't argue with that. Sure haven't seen anything in the press or from UP. Last I saw they were removing pieces of the bridge with a crane. Perhaps they've done the structural analysis needed.


----------



## zephyr17

AmtrakBlue said:


> Edit: Just checked the CS schedule and I see the bus bridge is 7 hours also


Looks like the bus will be making stops at Dunsmuir, Redding and Chico. Google maps shows a trip time of 1:33 between Chico Amtrak and Sacramento Valley station. With a Chico departure of 2:50 am, that should put the bus at Sacramento station 4:20- 4:30 ish.

Hope they open the train for boarding when the bus gets there.


----------



## JayPea

zephyr17 said:


> Looks like the bus will be making stops at Dunsmuir, Redding and Chico. Google maps shows a trip time of 1:33 between Chico Amtrak and Sacramento Valley station. With a Chico departure of 2:50 am, that should put the bus at Sacramento station 4:20- 4:30 ish.
> 
> Hope they open the train for boarding when the bus gets there.




I would hope they do too. I'm scheduled to ride the CS starting from Seattle on Oct. 1st and going the full length of the route to LA. I'd think the repairs would be completed before then, but if not, then a bustitution it is. I'm just glad that Amtrak will reinstate the bus bridge.


----------



## minnrider

zephyr17 said:


> I just checked Amtrak's dynamic Schedules feature (yes, I prefer timetables, too, but this is coming in handy right now) and it is showing a bus bridge until Tuesday, September 7th, with the train resuming running the entire route on Wednesday, September 8th.


I have a reservation for a roomette on the Starlight on August 23 from Seattle to Santa Barbara. I just checked Amtrak's website and that date now shows a bus bridge from Klamath Falls (departing 10:00pm) to Sacramento (arriving 5:30am). Obviously, not pleasant for a sleeper passenger with nearly the entire overnight portion of the trip on a bus. I used points for this trip. If I decide to go ahead, how does Amtrak calculate a partial refund of points? Or, if I decide to cancel, do I get a full refund of my points?


----------



## WWW

AmtrakBlue said:


> View attachment 23528
> 
> UP is replacing the whole bridge.


Probably need only to replace the deck structure leaving the foundation supports in place.
Photo does not show the B-I-G whole picture.
Shows a couple of cranes - - -
Shows the decking removed from the left side of the photo

Amazed with the speed of restoring rail lines due to crashes derailments and the slings and pains of outrageous unfortunate accidents !


----------



## jruff001

AmtrakBlue said:


> I think their guess is better than ours as they are certainly in touch with UP.


Do you think UP really knows how long it is going to take either?

They are just best-guessing too and of course are trying to sound optimistic for their customers.

I'd plan on it being until at least Labor Day.


----------



## zephyr17

minnrider said:


> I have a reservation for a roomette on the Starlight on August 23 from Seattle to Santa Barbara. I just checked Amtrak's website and that date now shows a bus bridge from Klamath Falls (departing 10:00pm) to Sacramento (arriving 5:30am). Obviously, not pleasant for a sleeper passenger with nearly the entire overnight portion of the trip on a bus. I used points for this trip. If I decide to go ahead, how does Amtrak calculate a partial refund of points? Or, if I decide to cancel, do I get a full refund of my points?


Amtrak had traditionally allowed full points refunds if you cancel in situations like this.

If you still plan to go through with it, I'd call them up and see what they'll offer. They'll probably give you a partial refund anyway, but better to be proactive.

If it were me, I'd bag it. I would not do an overnight bus, period.


----------



## Ryan

jruff001 said:


> Do you think UP really knows how long it is going to take either?


After two weeks, yes. Plenty of time to conduct a damage assessment and formulate a reasonably accurate plan.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

WWW said:


> Probably need only to replace the deck structure leaving the foundation supports in place.
> Photo does not show the B-I-G whole picture.
> Shows a couple of cranes - - -
> Shows the decking removed from the left side of the photo
> 
> Amazed with the speed of restoring rail lines due to crashes derailments and the slings and pains of outrageous unfortunate accidents !


I did not say that based on a picture. I was “quoting” what someone on another forum had said about replacing the whole bridge.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

UP hopes to have the bridge opened by Sept 1









Northern California Bridge Outage Update


Union Pacific Customer Announcement



www.up.com


----------



## Sidney

I'll be on the CS on Sept 12 from Sea to Sac. At least there will be bustitution starting soon. The Sea to Sac leg is part of my rail pass. Without that route,I'd have a lot of rearranging to do.


----------



## railiner

AmtrakBlue said:


> That bus sounds better than what the riders of the SWC are getting today. They have a 7+ hour bus ride between Kansas City and Chicago due to a freight derailment. And it certainly sounds better than being stuck in an airplane on the ground for hours, which has happened to people. Be glad Amtrak is easier to deal with than airlines as for getting your money/points back.


Where is this derailment? Seems like they have more alternate rail routes available in this case, including an Amtrak route (via St. Louis), so why the bus (except for intermediate stop passengers)?


----------



## OBS

AmtrakBlue said:


> UP hopes to have the bridge opened by Sept 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Northern California Bridge Outage Update
> 
> 
> Union Pacific Customer Announcement
> 
> 
> 
> www.up.com


UP told Amtrak it will be 2-3 months to get the bridge replaced.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

railiner said:


> Where is this derailment? Seems like they have more alternate rail routes available in this case, including an Amtrak route (via St. Louis), so why the bus (except for intermediate stop passengers)?


"Derailment in Marceline, MO blocking both mains."


----------



## railiner

AmtrakBlue said:


> "Derailment in Marceline, MO blocking both mains."


Seems like they could have used the former BN route via Brookfield to get around it...they've used that route in the past all the way to Galesburg, but there seems to be an interchange at Bucklin, too....




__





Missouri/Railroads - OpenStreetMap Wiki







wiki.openstreetmap.org


----------



## AmtrakBlue

railiner said:


> Seems like they could have used the former BN route via Brookfield to get around it...they've used that route in the past all the way to Galesburg, but there seems to be an interchange at Bucklin, too....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missouri/Railroads - OpenStreetMap Wiki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wiki.openstreetmap.org


Maybe they did not have time to arrange it with the host RR(s).


----------



## west point

A question. With all the construction going on how is UP going to get the needed specialty steel ? The statement by UP of fixing tracks means what ? Wooden ties, rail, switches, signals, signal bungalows ??? They might cannibalize other improvements but signal bungalows are another matter.,
equipment from other locations are different. Ground conductivity, block distances, resistance, impedance. All in all a very difficult engineering feat. Just thought if satellite equipment destroyed can the carrier provide replacement equipment quickly ?


----------



## Willbridge

I'm glad that they're taking some action. Besides the long-distance traffic and local access stations between SAC and KFS, Trains 11/14 are integrated with the EUG<>SEA and PDX<>SEA corridor schedule. Other trains' fares in the corridors were creeping up or selling out. Some of that happens with fixed consists anyway but it would be a shame to think that passengers were paying more for less.

This is much better news than the alternatives that I had to research for a family reunion trip that is not an excursion.

One tip for people who have not tried sleeping in an intercity bus (which I've done on Greyhound, Trailways and Amtrak bus bridges) is bring along a stuffed neck brace. And, a bonus if the bus is new enough to have seat belts, use them! Aside from the safety aspect, you'll sleep better.


----------



## WWW

Willbridge - congrats 1000 posts status Conductor !


----------



## Railspike

Here's some info on the Marceline derailment:





__





3 dozen train cars derail just outside Marceline






www.msn.com













Marceline Police Chief Says Mechanical Issue Caused Train Derailment; No Injuries Reported - Central Mo Info


A section of a westbound train derailed north of Marceline to the city limits late Thursday. Marceline...




www.centralmoinfo.com


----------



## Willbridge

WWW said:


> Willbridge - congrats 1000 posts status Conductor !


Thanx!


----------



## Skimmy

So, thanks to this group I've gotten a lot of good information about the 2nd leg of my western trip. I'm looking at options for leg 2 (SF) Emeryville to Portland on Sunday July 18th. Train leaves Emeryville-Sacramento scheduled 10:04 PM arriving 11:59 PM. I see the bridge(bus) from Sacramento leaves 12:15 AM arriving Klamath Falls 6:45 AM. Train travel to continue at 8:17 AM. arriving POrtland 3:32 PM. My question is: Is this still the Coast Starlight and do I keep my Roomette? or will this be a 'fill in' train cobbled together?

Thanks to all in this somewhat stressful time. (Looked at getting a rental car from SF to Klamath Falls.......No luck)

Kim


----------



## sitzplatz17

Skimmy said:


> So, thanks to this group I've gotten a lot of good information about the 2nd leg of my western trip. I'm looking at options for leg 2 (SF) Emeryville to Portland on Sunday July 18th. Train leaves Emeryville-Sacramento scheduled 10:04 PM arriving 11:59 PM. I see the bridge(bus) from Sacramento leaves 12:15 AM arriving Klamath Falls 6:45 AM. Train travel to continue at 8:17 AM. arriving POrtland 3:32 PM. My question is: Is this still the Coast Starlight and do I keep my Roomette? or will this be a 'fill in' train cobbled together?
> 
> Thanks to all in this somewhat stressful time. (Looked at getting a rental car from SF to Klamath Falls.......No luck)
> 
> Kim



From my understanding this will be a "fill in" train. Not sure what the consist is but I'll try and take a look at what leaves King Street Station once the 9:45am SEA-EUG section starts running again later this week and report back. Looking on Amtrak.com it's showing rooms as "sold out" so that would indicate to me that it'll be a stub version of the usual consist.


----------



## WWW

The Coast Starlight trains going each direction should be the same consist i.e. 2 locomotives a baggage car and xx number of sleepers and a cafe car.
How Amtrak wyes the train consist to get the direction of travel figured out - I don't know - - -
If the train consist is not wyed there could be a locomotive (push-pull) a both ends of the trains.
(At Klamath Falls a mile or so south of the city is a wye over Lake Ewauna)

BUT

When you get off the Emeryville to Sacramento segment - you should expect to be boarding the Klamath Falls Portland segment in the same roomette
car location - the only think I can think of is Amtrak not having the same number of cars in the consist of either train (space to wye the train) or the
volume number of passengers is reduced who have selected other means of travel between the points.
That failing you should at least be guaranteed a roomette accommodation somewhere on that 2nd leg segment.
Perhaps the answer will come from the conductor or his representative at Klamath Falls - - - - - or a hammock in the baggage car LOL !


----------



## Willbridge

WWW said:


> The Coast Starlight trains going each direction should be the same consist i.e. 2 locomotives a baggage car and xx number of sleepers and a cafe car.
> How Amtrak wyes the train consist to get the direction of travel figured out - I don't know - - -
> If the train consist is not wyed there could be a locomotive (push-pull) a both ends of the trains.
> (At Klamath Falls a mile or so south of the city is a wye over Lake Ewauna)
> 
> BUT
> 
> When you get off the Emeryville to Sacramento segment - you should expect to be boarding the Klamath Falls Portland segment in the same roomette
> car location - the only think I can think of is Amtrak not having the same number of cars in the consist of either train (space to wye the train) or the
> volume number of passengers is reduced who have selected other means of travel between the points.
> That failing you should at least be guaranteed a roomette accommodation somewhere on that 2nd leg segment.
> Perhaps the answer will come from the conductor or his representative at Klamath Falls - - - - - or a hammock in the baggage car LOL !


I don't think there will be sleepers. They were blocked out in the reservation system and that way they can also omit the dining car.

They did re-issue my Business Class ticket for each side of the bus bridge.

The "amenities" list in the website does not mention food.


----------



## zephyr17

Willbridge said:


> I don't think there will be sleepers. They were blocked out in the reservation system and that way they can also omit the dining car.
> 
> They did re-issue my Business Class ticket for each side of the bus bridge.
> 
> The "amenities" list in the website does not mention food.


Yeah, the amenities don't list any food service, but the schedules tab still shows all the sleeping accommodations. Although they apparently aren't bookable.

I would hesitate come to any conclusion about what is going to be offered on the stub trains starting tomorrow. The website info is pretty contradictory.

I guess we'll have to see what the ground truth is tomorrow.


----------



## sitzplatz17

Just observed 11 depart King Street station and it looked like it had the full consist. Couldn’t tell if anyone was in the sleepers but it definitely wasn’t an abbreviated consist.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Seen on FB. And someone commented that he received an email from Amtrak letting him know that they will have a room on the other "side" of the bus bridge.


----------



## Oreius

I’m going on the Starlight on September 15 from SEA to LA. What is the current status of this? I am not doing a “bus bridge” that is just too hard for me and my family. Has this this been fixed?


----------



## Danib62

Exact restoration is TBD but they’re shooting for early September so you might be ok but you also might not be. I’d have alternate plans ready.


----------



## TinCan782

AmtrakBlue said:


> Seen on FB. And someone commented that he received an email from Amtrak letting him know that they will have a room on the other "side" of the bus bridge.
> 
> View attachment 23551


"Limited to two pieces of luggage per per person" - in addition to the normal "carry on"?
Glad I cancelled and bailed out a couple of weeks ago...made other arrangements.


----------



## Oreius

Danib62 said:


> Exact restoration is TBD but they’re shooting for early September so you might be ok but you also might not be. I’d have alternate plans ready.



Will Amtrak refund all money and points? This was supposed to be my parent’s first overnight train trip! I made the reservation back in January. I booked a Bedroom with points and cash for a Roomette..


----------



## zephyr17

Oreius said:


> I’m going on the Starlight on September 15 from SEA to LA. What is the current status of this? I am not doing a “bus bridge” that is just too hard for me and my family. Has this this been fixed?


UP is shooting for 9/1 to have the bridge repaired/replaced. It is a big bridge and the damage is severe. I've seen pictures where they have all the spans off now, leaving just the towers. At least one of the towers had steel deformed by the heat, so they might have to demolish the rest and start over. So no, it is not fixed.

Amtrak is supposed to resume 9/7, a week after UP finishes.

I don't think anyone knows for sure right now if they'll make the dates. It is a big job.


----------



## Danib62

I just saw #11 go past the VRF cam in Chehalis, WA. Looked like a full consist with diner, SSL, and two sleepers. Unknown if the sleepers were occupied though.


----------



## Oreius

Can’t Amtrak reroute the train seen as how this will be at least a two month disruption?


----------



## Danib62

Apparently not.


----------



## zephyr17

Oreius said:


> Can’t Amtrak reroute the train seen as how this will be at least a two month disruption?


BNSF is allowing just 2 UP freight detours a day over their Inside Gateway line, that's all. I do not know if Amtrak asked, but if they did, BNSF would almost certainly refuse.

The CORP Siskiyou Line through Medford is mostly 10 mph and at least one tunnel won't clear Superliners in any case.

The main UP detour, through Ogden, UT is simply too long, even if UP allowed it, and would miss all Starlight points south of Portland if they used the most direct route through Las Vegas. If they didn't, they could make it even longer by coming back through Reno.

That exhausts all rail alternatives, leaving California 99, Interstate 5, US 97 and a bus.


----------



## west point

Definitely Amtrak now says Sept 7 That is thru Sept 7th.

SERVICE ALERT: Coast Starlight Train 14 departing Los Angeles (LAX) on 7/15- 9/7 will operate as a bus between Sacramento (SAC) & Klamath Falls (KFS) due to a track closure. All intermediate stops will be made. For reservation assistance please call or text 1-800-USA-RAIL.


----------



## zephyr17

Still depends on UP getting the bridge fixed/replaced on their projected 9/1 completion date, though.

The 9/7 date is almost certainly the result of consultation with UP, but a project that big and that rushed might slip. Considering the whole picture, I wouldn't treat that date as totally firm if I had travel plans within a couple weeks of that date. While I wouldn't cancel it, I'd certainly be thinking of what to do as a Plan B now.

In 2019, I had tickets on the Maple Leaf east to New York then west to Toronto a week later. The Whirlpool Bridge at Niagara Falls had scheduled maintenance that was supposed to end 3 weeks before. Shortly before I left, the completion date was extended 2 weeks, and the train was bustituted Toronto-NF. While I was in New York, it was extended again so I was again bustituted NF-Toronto.

Now it was only 2 hours and the bustitution was no big deal, unlike this midnight ride SAC-KFS, my point it was a major construction project and it slipped, twice, at the last minute. Plus, it was long planned maintenance, not repairing/replacing a major structure severely damaged in a natural disaster an emergency rush. So at this point, I'd take any completion dates with a grain of salt until the project progresses further.


----------



## DennisInGeorgia

9/7 is the last day of the bus bridge? I’m on the NEXT train south, on 9/8 out of Portland. This ought to be enough to make me feel relieved. So why don’t I? Is it because there’s enough in the fine print to allow Amtrak to change things whenever and however? I’m hoping someone can make feel me safer about getting to spend the night in a Coast Starlight bedroom.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

DennisInGeorgia said:


> 9/7 is the last day of the bus bridge? I’m on the NEXT train south, on 9/8 out of Portland. This ought to be enough to make me feel relieved. So why don’t I? Is it because there’s enough in the fine print to allow Amtrak to change things whenever and however? I’m hoping someone can make feel me safer about getting to spend the night in a Coast Starlight bedroom.


It's up to UP as to when Amtrak can cross the bridge.


----------



## zephyr17

Well, it really isn't Amtrak. It is whether UP finishes the bridge that is out, and that bridge was taken out in a pretty spectacular fashion. Amtrak can't run a train over a bridge that is out.

As I pointed out in the post above yours, the issue is whether UP can get that bridge repaired/replaced, along with about 10 miles of fire damaged line, by or within days of their projected completion date of 9/1. Big, rushed construction projects can slip. UP wants their line back in service as soon as they can and is doing everything they can to do it, but sh*t happens.

Not saying it will, but not saying it won't. It is early. But if I were you traveling the very next day, I'd start thinking about Plan B


----------



## John Santos

Does anyone know how many freight trains UP runs over the line every day? Rerouting those trains is just as difficult as rerouting the CS. (Except commodities are a little more tolerant of 10mph detours than people are.) Since this appears to be the only viable north-south rail route on the West coast, there are probably many millions of dollars at stake every day the line is closed, which is I'm sure a huge motivation for UP to repair it as quickly as possible. Once rebuilt, will there be a huge freight backlog that will interfere with restoring passenger service?


----------



## Bob Dylan

AmtrakBlue said:


> I’m sure they’ll let the pax know when they know. All they told the media is that they’re looking into options.


Redacted.


----------



## zephyr17

John Santos said:


> Does anyone know how many freight trains UP runs over the line every day? Rerouting those trains is just as difficult as rerouting the CS. (Except commodities are a little more tolerant of 10mph detours than people are.) Since this appears to be the only viable north-south rail route on the West coast, there are probably many millions of dollars at stake every day the line is closed, which is I'm sure a huge motivation for UP to repair it as quickly as possible. Once rebuilt, will there be a huge freight backlog that will interfere with restoring passenger service?


Per info at Trainorders and Altamont Press, UP runs about 8 trains a day over the line. 2 a day are being permitted to detour over the Inside Gateway by BNSF, the rest of the traffic is being detoured via Ogden, UT.

Nothing appears to be being detoured over the very slow (10 mph), clearance-restricted CORP Siskiyou Line.

Perhaps clearing backups is the reason why UP projects the line will reopen on 9/1 per their website but Amtrak isn't restarting until a week later on 9/8?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

zephyr17 said:


> Per info at Trainorders and Altamont Press, UP runs about 8 trains a day over the line. 2 a day are being permitted to detour over the Inside Gateway by BNSF, the rest of the traffic is being detoured via Ogden, UT.
> 
> Nothing appears to be being detoured over the very slow (10 mph), clearance-restricted CORP Siskiyou Line.
> 
> *Perhaps clearing backups is the reason why UP projects the line will reopen on 9/1 per their website but Amtrak isn't restarting until a week later on 9/8?*


My guess is making sure trains pass over it safely ... rather lose cargo than people if the bridge collapses.


----------



## zephyr17

AmtrakBlue said:


> My guess is making sure trains pass over it safely ... rather lose cargo than people if the bridge collapses.


Well, maybe, but clearing a freight backlog without having to allow for Amtrak is a nice side benefit that I am sure UP wouldn't mind.


----------



## Willbridge

This situation is a reminder that the railway image of reliability in all sorts of situations was established when there were more alternative routings. Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line could have handled some diverted freight traffic as could the Modoc Line. Now it's either the Cascade Line or squeezing into the Inside Gateway or hundreds of extra miles through Idaho.

Note that this map inset also shows the OC&E line that served an area east of US97 now on fire.


----------



## Irelandvegas65

I’ve been reading along and have mild concerns. Honestly not sure if I should or not at this point: my train departs Seattle oct 4th to EMY. It’s the second leg of Empire/CS/Zephyr back to Chicago. We have bedrooms in each segment. My alternatives would be to fly? Suck it up , ride the bus bridge? Reschedule? I think for now I will wait it out. What do you all think?


----------



## Danib62

I think by October it seems like you should be fine. Definitely take a wait and see approach.


----------



## Ryan

Concur. We'll have a better idea of what 10/4 will look like in a few weeks.


----------



## jis

Irelandvegas65 said:


> I’ve been reading along and have mild concerns. Honestly not sure if I should or not at this point: my train departs Seattle oct 4th to EMY. It’s the second leg of Empire/CS/Zephyr back to Chicago. We have bedrooms in each segment. My alternatives would be to fly? Suck it up , ride the bus bridge? Reschedule? I think for now I will wait it out. What do you all think?


I would wait it out at least past Sept 8, the currently announced resume date.

If I was doing this, all in all, if push comes to shove and a bus bridge is available I would opt for that. All the normally daytime run scenic part are elsewhere and are worth enjoying. The price one pays is one night of discomfort. But then again I will choose as much rail as possible given a choice.

But of course flying is always an alternative option, but involves one hotel night at EMY. Not bad overall if flying does not phase you.

I suppose you could reschedule, but there is no guarantee that something else will not crop up at the new scheduled date(s).


----------



## Irelandvegas65

I appreciate the enouragement for me and the rest of us who have a trip planned on CS between now and this Fall. For me, im am glad I am not one of the ones much closer to the announced "in service" date of the bridge, best wishes to everyone! For what its worth, my itinerary is: EB from Chicago, two nights in Seattle, CS to EMY, Two Nights in San Francisco, CZ to Glenwood, Two nights in Aspen, then back to CHI. Back when planning, the routes were not everyday, and its a good pace with stops in cities along the way. Only other ride on Amtrak was back in high school CHI to Dallas, coach. I am excited about my Bedroom. Ive got lots of questions but those are for another forum!


----------



## George Harris

Willbridge said:


> This situation is a reminder that the railway image of reliability in all sorts of situations was established when there were more alternative routings. Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line could have handled some diverted freight traffic as could the Modoc Line. Now it's either the Cascade Line or squeezing into the Inside Gateway or hundreds of extra miles through Idaho.


Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line had no more clearance than it does now. It may have had faster speed limits, but that would be all. Operative word here is "some" diverted freight traffic. If your traffic was limited to maximum size "Plate C" freight cars and single level passenger cars no problem. Piggyback and autoracks would not have made it even then and would have to take one of the long detours. Now that much of freight is in double stacks, autoracks and hi-cube cars most freight would have to detour. Throw the low speeds, and track quality that goes with it, simply forget the Siskiyou line is even there for this issue.


----------



## Willbridge

jis said:


> I would wait it out at least past Sept 8, the currently announced resume date.
> 
> If I was doing this, all in all, if push comes to shove and a bus bridge is available I would opt for that. All the normally daytime run scenic part are elsewhere and are worth enjoying. The price one pays is one night of discomfort. But then again I will choose as much rail as possible given a choice.
> 
> But of course flying is always an alternative option, but involves one hotel night at EMY. Not bad overall if flying does not phase you.
> 
> I suppose you could reschedule, but there is no guarantee that something else will not crop up at the new scheduled date(s).


Not guaranteed with global warming but October at Sea-Tac marks the start of the fog season. Our Gray Line of Portland drivers paid by mileage loved it -- high pay and easy work. Airline employees load the bus at Portland International with surly and tired air passengers, announce that smoking is prohibited anywhere on the bus in Oregon, minutes later you're on the Interstate Bridge, "forget" to announce that smoking was okay in Washington, 70-75 mph on I-5 in the night with passengers half-asleep, airline employees unload the bus. Reverse process back to Portland.

If planning to fly in the fog season out of Portland or Seattle the best flights are in the morning from cities where the plane arrived the night before.

After the fog season come the winter storms. I have fond memories of the Army flying me on a Seattle>San Francisco flight in January which went out over the ocean to try to avoid bad weather. The businessman next to me let me eat his dinner because he was afraid he'd lose it. I was willing to chance that by eating his and mine. In those days airline food was better than army chow.


----------



## neroden

George Harris said:


> Fifty years ago the Siskiyou Line had no more clearance than it does now. It may have had faster speed limits, but that would be all. Operative word here is "some" diverted freight traffic. If your traffic was limited to maximum size "Plate C" freight cars and single level passenger cars no problem.



Sigh...it's still a better passenger route than the current line, because Medford and Ashland are both *much* larger and attract *far* more visitors than Klamath Falls. Unfortunately it was allowed to deteriorate far below passenger speeds. If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.


----------



## danasgoodstuff

neroden said:


> Sigh...it's still a better passenger route than the current line, because Medford and Ashland are both *much* larger and attract *far* more visitors than Klamath Falls. Unfortunately it was allowed to deteriorate far below passenger speeds. If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.


Even when passenger trains ran this way, they were far slower than going through K Falls. Siskiyou Summit is going to be a bear for any train. But ideally, sure route one train this way and another thru K Falls and Bend... Next to Medford, Bend is probably the biggest should have service location in OR. Unless you think there should be service to the coast, but that's a different can of worms.


----------



## zephyr17

Even if they brought the track condition up, the line would still be very circuitous and slow with its 1870s alignment through constant hills. There is a reason why the SP opened the much straighter and faster Cascade Line in the 1920s. The Siskiyou Line may look like it parallels I5, but it actually wanders off into a bunch of side canyons to keep the gradient down.

To be really be competitive, a whole new alignment would need to be built through Southern Oregon reaching the same points, Roseburg, Grants Pass, Medford and Ashland.

And even if Oregon subsidized the building of such a new passenger line, they might not see the need to continue it past Ashland over difficult Siskiyou Summit into California.


----------



## danasgoodstuff

zephyr17 said:


> Even if they brought the track condition up, the line would still be very circuitous and slow with its 1870s alignment through constant hills. There is a reason why the SP opened the much straighter and faster Cascade Line in the 1920s. The Siskiyou Line may look like it parallels I5, but it actually wanders off into a bunch of side canyons to keep the gradient down.
> 
> To be really be competitive, a whole new alignment would need to be built through Southern Oregon reaching the same points, Roseburg, Grants Pass, Medford and Ashland.
> 
> And even if Oregon subsidized the building of such a new passenger line, they might not see the need to continue it past Ashland over difficult Siskiyou Summit into California.


If it just went as far as Ashland it could be themed to Elizabethan theatre! Running a railway inside a railway...


----------



## Cal

Willbridge said:


> I don't think there will be sleepers. They were blocked out in the reservation system and that way they can also omit the dining car.
> 
> They did re-issue my Business Class ticket for each side of the bus bridge.
> 
> The "amenities" list in the website does not mention food.


If this is the case I want to cancel my August trip. If anyone can confirm/deny that’d be nice


----------



## west point

There are many variables in the rebuilding. Weather and any additional fires are the prime and the most unknown. Either one could cause evacuations of the work site. And hopefully no fire would damage the work equipment especially the cranes. A work accident is another slight possibility. Reconstruction material and the supply chain could also be impacted. Just imagine for example that availability of enough class 10 bolts is a problem. Supply chain problems are all over without rhyme or reason. 

Then again everything might come in under schedule and UP finishes in mid August.

IMO Amtrak is using the 9/07 date to prepare passengers for possible UP not finishing until 9/07. By mid August we may see that date change. A possibility of any restart date might be without notice if UP says at a morning meeting that Amtrak can run Starlight thru tonight. That might give Amtrak enough time to notify C&R crews to report.


----------



## TinCan782

west point said:


> Then again everything might come in under schedule and UP finishes in mid August.
> 
> IMO Amtrak is using the 9/07 date to prepare passengers for possible UP not finishing until 9/07. By mid August we may see that date change. A possibility of any restart date might be without notice if UP says at a morning meeting that Amtrak can run Starlight thru tonight. That might give Amtrak enough time to notify C&R crews to report.


Regardless of actual completion date, I would expect that UP would not allow passenger trains until there has been some amount of freight traffic run over the bridge. Hence, UP opening the bridge on September 1 and Amtrak resuming service on September 8.


----------



## jruff001

neroden said:


> If Oregon, Washington, and California ever became serious about promoting train travel between California and the Pacific Northwest, (or for that matter if Oregon got serious about providing ways to get to Medford) it would make sense to rehabilitate it as the main passenger route. There is no sign of that sort of political will yet, though.


Why would there be? There are dozens of flights per day between CA and the PNW that only take around two hours.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Cal said:


> If this is the case I want to cancel my August trip. If anyone can confirm/deny that’d be nice


I saw at least one post on FB where it was confirmed that sleeper pax will have rooms on both sides of the bus bridge.


----------



## Oreius

I know this sounds sordid, but I’m actually doing personal “Train Prayers.” My Coast Starlight trip in mid-September is THE pinnacle of a 16-day Alaska and West Coast Vacation for me and my parents. I bought my parents their own Bedroom with my AGR points and paid cash for my own Roomette. This is to be their first overnight train trip. At least twice a week, I hold evening “Train Talks” with my parents to get them psyched and to also know what to expect. (I drive them nuts, though) I got them their own Bedroom so they have their own private potty and shower. We’re spending a few days in Alaska, including 2 days at a cabin in the boondocks at the base of Mount McKinley. Then, we’re flying back to Seattle for a couple days to sightsee and visit my cousin. Then, it’s on the Starlight. Once we get to Los Angeles, we’re spending the remainder of the trip at Anaheim and Disneyland. Remember, I have said in previous posts that my parents are jealous because I travel First-Class like Snoopy. So, I’m saying prayers that this train trip is not cancelled!!


----------



## WWW

Post to be posted - Deleted - - - Moving on.

On another note:
*Oreius *hope your Alaska travels have some portion on the Alaska RR in GOLD STAR class in the bi-level dome cars - - -


----------



## TrackWalker

Location of UP bridge.
Siskiyou line heads off to the Northwest from Weed, CA.




UP Update 7/12


----------



## daybeers

TrackWalker said:


> Location of UP bridge.
> Siskiyou line heads off to the Northwest from Weed, CA.
> 
> View attachment 23596
> 
> 
> UP Update 7/12


Thanks for that UP update; those tankers converted into their "Fire Car Fleet" are really cool!


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

Try to book anything on the CS this summer and it’s either listed as sold out or “no service offered” as of yesterday. These guys are unbelievable. They finally got 2 prime corridors thrown in their lap and don’t even want to run them. Lax-smf and Sea-KFS. I can’t book my lax sjc trip I wanted to do.


----------



## Cal

A trestle has been damaged beyond repair and so a bus bridge is in between Sacramento and Klamath Falls which is why it’s showing train 1011 and no service for your Seattle search. There’s already a thread about it which has many replies. Unfortunately I’m on mobile and it’s hard to link it, I’ll try.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

Look at what I posted. You can’t book ANYTHING at all as of yesterday. Lax to San Jose or Sacramento or anything isn’t for sale all summer. These have nothing to do with the bus bridge. The stub trains aren’t bookable.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Try to book anything on the CS this summer and it’s either listed as sold out or “no service offered” as of yesterday. These guys are unbelievable. They finally got 2 prime corridors thrown in their lap and don’t even want to run them. Lax-smf and Sea-KFS. I can’t book my lax sjc trip I wanted to do.


Did you try calling to book? The trains are running, but they may not be selling additional seats, at least online, at this time due to the service distruption.
It's also possible that they haven't updated the computer system with the new train/bus numbers. Their computer system is really old....


----------



## Oreius

WWW said:


> On another note:
> *Oreius *hope your Alaska travels have some portion on the Alaska RR in GOLD STAR class in the bi-level dome cars - - -



Unfortunately, we’re not planning on taking the Alaska RR. I could ask my parents if they want to take it to Seward through that big-ass road/rail tunnel…


----------



## Ryan

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Look at what I posted. You can’t book ANYTHING at all as of yesterday. Lax to San Jose or Sacramento or anything isn’t for sale all summer. These have nothing to do with the bus bridge. The stub trains aren’t bookable.


They were bookable a few days ago. Have some patience.


----------



## zephyr17

Ryan said:


> They were bookable a few days ago. Have some patience.


They are not bookable today even though they show up on the Schedules tab.

The Center of Excellence continues its sterling track record of customer service.


----------



## Alice

TrackWalker said:


> Location of UP bridge.
> Siskiyou line heads off to the Northwest from Weed, CA.
> 
> View attachment 23596
> 
> 
> UP Update 7/12


UP now also has a fire train in the Feather River Canyon helping with the Dixie Fire. As an aside, when this fire was still small, they had to cancel air support two different times on account of drones. Various local vigilante types would very much like to get ahold of those pilots.


----------



## WWW

Cal said:


> *A trestle has been damaged beyond repair* - - -



Photo (copy) from post #199




Any updated progress ?
Last I heard (read-viewed) was the bridge deck had been removed and the foundation structure was still standing
That has to be a plus not having to lay a new foundation and build from scratch


----------



## Danib62

Well I got tired of waiting to what Amtrak was going to do with my reservation that was only a week away so I called up and cancelled. Got my AGR points credited back to my account, no questions. Super disappointed this trip didn't work out, it was supposed to be part of our honeymoon but instead of we're spending an extra night in PDX and flying to SFO.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

‘Starlight’ saga: Sales stopped while previous reservation holders are contacted - Trains


LOS ANGELES — Amtrak’s Coast Starlight began operating as Los Angeles-Sacramento, Calif., and Seattle-Klamath Falls, Ore., sections linked by an overnight bus ride as of Friday, July 16, but travelers haven’t been able to make new reservations, even on the unaffected parts of the route. The...




www.trains.com





Confirmed Amtrak not selling seats on Starlight. Running full service trains that can’t be booked cost some $$$. How long is temporary? Only management knows. How is it possible they don’t know if there’s rooms or seats from Lax to SJC? Or the other 50ish city pairs affected?

“Keeping revenue off the books and passengers off the train is temporary, according to Amtrak spokeswoman Olivia Irvin. She says, “To ensure prioritization for customers who have had their reservation impacted by this change in service, sales on some segments of the _Coast Starlight _have been paused while the re-accommodation process is completed. This includes all itineraries on the overnight segment that will be served by a bus. We are not able to share a projected completion timeline at this time.”


----------



## Bob Dylan

Danib62 said:


> Well I got tired of waiting to what Amtrak was going to do with my reservation that was only a week away so I called up and cancelled. Got my AGR points credited back to my account, no questions. Super disappointed this trip didn't work out, it was supposed to be part of our honeymoon but instead of we're spending an extra night in PDX and flying to SFO.


Have a Wonderful Honeymoon anyway!


----------



## Danib62

Thanks! With this one I could spend the entire 15 days stuck in a boxcar on a siding and it would still be great!


----------



## Jean Maunder

Can anyone help me know how the bussing around the bridge trestle affected by the Lava Fire is impacting the arrival times of the Coast Starlight Train 11? I have friends with reservations leaving September 4 from Portland at 1425. We understand they will be bussed from Klamath Falls and then put back on the train in Sacramento. This is an overnight journey for them to Emeryville (Oakland), ordinarily predicted to arrive at 0800 on Sept 5. They have a flight home to Europe from San Francisco Airport that same day, departing at 1910. Will they be able to make their airplane connection? 
Thanks.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Jean Maunder said:


> Can anyone help me know how the bussing around the bridge trestle affected by the Lava Fire is impacting the arrival times of the Coast Starlight Train 11? I have friends with reservations leaving September 4 from Portland at 1425. We understand they will be bussed from Klamath Falls and then put back on the train in Sacramento. This is an overnight journey for them to Emeryville (Oakland), ordinarily predicted to arrive at 0800 on Sept 5. They have a flight home to Europe from San Francisco Airport that same day, departing at 1910. Will they be able to make their airplane connection?
> Thanks.


I'm guessing that the train won't leave Sacramento until the busses arrive. If that is the case, then you can keep track of the on-time performance of the train here (use 1011 for train # and EMY for station): 






ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Train History Search


ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps History and Archive



juckins.net


----------



## zephyr17

The buses should actually be faster than the train, so there shouldn't be a problem with leaving Sacramento on time.

PS it is generally a bad idea to schedule a transfer to a different carrier on same day as the arrival of any North American long distance train. Especially such a critical one as an international flight.


----------



## WWW

zephyr17 said:


> The buses should actually be faster than the train, so there shouldn't be a problem with leaving Sacramento on time.
> 
> PS *it is generally a bad idea to schedule a transfer to a different carrier on same day as the arrival of any North American long distance train.* Especially such a critical one as an international flight.



Connections be they train to train or train to plane or whatever floats your boat should not be taken for granted -
A sufficient cushion of connection time should be factored in - - -
That train to plane connection is compounded by the train ending on the Oakland side of the Bay and the plane connection on the opposite side.
You don't have a simple A connects to B - you have an A (train) to Bart or Bus connection and thence to a C and even then a shuttle from the
Bart Bus stop to the airport terminal. An another alternative an expensive taxi ride/fare.
At least you don't have the Phileas Fogg (Around the World in 80 Days) factor and have a date line to cross.

It is no doubt too late to think about making that international connection at Seattle instead of San Francisco as an alternative.

Don't cha just love us Monday morning quarterbacks - shoulda coulda woulda hada better idea timely connection without that MISSED connect ?

Fortunately that Bus Bridge operation is a blessing - a painful one getting on and off one transport to another during sleepy time hours - but it works.

Good Luck !


----------



## Trogdor

Jean Maunder said:


> Can anyone help me know how the bussing around the bridge trestle affected by the Lava Fire is impacting the arrival times of the Coast Starlight Train 11? I have friends with reservations leaving September 4 from Portland at 1425. We understand they will be bussed from Klamath Falls and then put back on the train in Sacramento. This is an overnight journey for them to Emeryville (Oakland), ordinarily predicted to arrive at 0800 on Sept 5. They have a flight home to Europe from San Francisco Airport that same day, departing at 1910. Will they be able to make their airplane connection?
> Thanks.



Despite all the doom-and-gloom, I think the connection will be more than safe, provided the buses actually make it through (and I have not heard of any problems with that, but in theory another fire could spark and shut down all travel again, including roads).

If the bus arrives anywhere in the neighborhood of on time, they should be fine. They could also try asking to use their ticket to board the Capitol Corridor in Sacramento, which runs every hour or two. That will take them to Oakland, Emeryville (Emeryville has the connecting Amtrak buses to downtown San Francisco), or Richmond. If they got off at Richmond, they could take the BART Red Line, then transfer to the Yellow Line at pretty much any stop between downtown Oakland and Daly City in San Francisco. The Yellow Line goes directly to SFO Airport. (If they were planning on taking BART anyway, they should note that the Amtrak stations in Emeryville and Oakland aren’t really that close to BART; if they are planning on taking the Amtrak bus to San Francisco, from the north those typically leave from Emeryville).


----------



## Trogdor

WWW said:


> and even then a shuttle from the
> Bart Bus stop to the airport terminal.



I don’t know what “Bart Bus” they will be taking, but the BART train stops directly at the international terminal at SFO. I’ve gotten off BART and walked directly into the terminal numerous times. Granted, it can be a hike to get over to the domestic terminals, but if they’re going to Europe, the international terminal is where they’re probably going anyway.


----------



## joelkfla

Trogdor said:


> If they got off at Richmond, they could take the BART Red Line, then transfer to the Yellow Line at pretty much any stop between downtown Oakland and Daly City in San Francisco. The Yellow Line goes directly to SFO Airport.


It's a Sunday, so they would need to board a Berryessa train and transfer at MacArthur. Trains run every 30 minutes, so the whole trip could take up to 2 hours.


Trogdor said:


> If they were planning on taking BART anyway, they should note that the Amtrak stations in Emeryville and Oakland aren’t really that close to BART


But if they get off at Emeryville, and walk the bridge across the tracks, the free Emery-Go-Round circulator bus goes to the MacArthur station, where they could board a BART directly to SFO. But it's a 30-minute bus ride, so it would probably all come out about the same.


----------



## Skimmy

So, just did the Coastal Starlight from San Francisco to Portland then Empire builder to Pasco. First, unbelievable that the bus stop in SF is on the darkened street in front of the Chase Bank. 555 Mission. I travelled alone and was not/did not feel threatened, but I'd not want my daughter or wife to do this trip at 9PM at night like i did. (Last train to Emeryville for the 10:04 Coastal to Sacramento) I got dropped off at Salesforce looking for the Amtrak sign; nicely lit up, security guard......finally asked the guard where AMtrak picked up and she directed me to Mission street. Walked up there not believing it could be where she said, but there was an Amtrak sign on a sign post. I was the only one there for 10-15 minutes. A security guard came by and I verified that I was in the right place. He said yes and we both shook our heads.
Train trip to Sacramento uneventful; attendants were good. Getting on the bus everyone was directed. 5 buses as there were different buses for the individual destinations that the starlight normally went to along the way. Thought this was a smart thing to do. Crew came with us. The not so good- Bus left after midnight but AMtrak didn't want the buses at Klamath falls for 2 hours before anyone got there (I think the train was there 10PMish the night before). So we would bus for an hour and a half then stop at a truck stop for an hour......get out and stretch, get something to eat then back in for another 1.5 hours and stop again at a truckstop for an hour. Then in to Klamath falls Amtrak. 7:15 AM. Not much moving and I believe the staff did everything they could to make things go as smoothly as possible. vendor outside at a table set up coffee and donuts for people that wanted. Took quite a bit of time to get into our sleeper car. I think we were the last one to get in. Ticket said 1431, the car said a different # that I can't remember now....The conductor came by and told us it was our car.
Finally got into the car. Issues with locomotives taking a while to load computer and getting administrative permission to move. Then dispatch permission to switch off the siding and get on the main track. All understandably took time. Room attendant and all staff were good. AMtrak did offer breakfast sandwiches to all travellers after Starlight got going in the observation car. 
We ran behind and at one point didn't think I was going to make my Pasco/Empire builder connection, but conductor said they would wait for us and they did. Had switched to coach seats Portland to Pasco and found the seats really comfortable and spacious. All in all, staff did all the right things with the natural disaster handed to them. 7 hours on a bus though made sightseeing the next day less enjoyable and I had the bed turned down and slept until 1PM. The 'Allnighter' did me in. Scenery good, don't know what I might have missed Scenery on The builder from Portland along the river is really good. Just a note on the Portland-Pasco section: No diner car until Spokane. (Is what I heard as I was now Coach) snack bar open in observation car.


----------



## Skimmy

zephyr17 said:


> The buses should actually be faster than the train, so there shouldn't be a problem with leaving Sacramento on time.
> 
> PS it is generally a bad idea to schedule a transfer to a different carrier on same day as the arrival of any North American long distance train. Especially such a critical one as an international flight.


Just a note: The reverse direction has the buses 'holding up' at truck stops twice for an hour so they don't get to Klamath Falls too soon (Before 7:15 AM). Just did this. It appeared to me that starting up a 'cold train' takes more time than you might think and hopefully staff the night before left the cars in good shape. While we were late getting into POrtland, The Empire waited.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

Update as of today still no bookings allowed all summer on these full service diner, sleeper equipped trains from LAX to SMF a 14 hour trip, or SEA to KFS a 12 hour trip. Not to mention you can’t book LAX to SEA with the bus bridge If you were so inclined.

I don’t understand why there is no outrage that they are at this point deliberately ”keeping revenue off the books and passengers off the trains” in the busy summer season (Amtraks words not mine, from the memo). They know what bookings were and how many seats/rooms were available from lax to oak or any other city pair before the bridge burned. I just remember Coscias letter to me a couple years ago the gist was, “we have to be good stewards of federal funds”. I guess it’s only if it serves their purpose.


----------



## Cal

What if they’re actually sold out though?


----------



## Ryan

Impossible. Doesn't fit the narrative that Amtrak is simultaneously evil and incompetent.


----------



## Willbridge

At least it exists. Here's the current status of the _California Zephyr:_

*We don't have train service matching your request.*


----------



## Cal

Willbridge said:


> At least it exists. Here's the current status of the _California Zephyr:_
> 
> *We don't have train service matching your request.*


I think this deserves its own thread…


----------



## Ryan

You're going to have to be more specific about where you're seeing that:


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

Cal said:


> What if they’re actually sold out though?




Im the article I posted a few replies up Amtrak admits they have stopped sales. They are “working on“ allowing customers to book trips. It’s the same theme everywhere. “We‘re working on allowing coach customers to eat in diner”, “We’re working on new bedding“, “we’re working on retrofitting diners”, Now it’s we’re working on allowing customers to buy tickets???? Really?

This should have nothing to do with the bridge burn out. Eliminating sales on the coastline from LAX-SMF and all points in between during summer peak is insane. More so considering they are running a full service train. They know what bookings were. Same goes for KFS to SEA. These aren’t short trips.









‘Starlight’ saga: Sales stopped while previous reservation holders are contacted - Trains


LOS ANGELES — Amtrak’s Coast Starlight began operating as Los Angeles-Sacramento, Calif., and Seattle-Klamath Falls, Ore., sections linked by an overnight bus ride as of Friday, July 16, but travelers haven’t been able to make new reservations, even on the unaffected parts of the route. The...




www.trains.com





From article:

“Yet during the past week, those attempting to book the train at Amtrak.com between any two city pairs are either greeted with a “sold-out” message (where there are other Amtrak train or bus alternatives), or are told, “we don’t have train service matching your request” (where the _Starlight_ is the only option).

Keeping revenue off the books and passengers off the train is temporary, according to Amtrak spokeswoman Olivia Irvin.”


----------



## joelkfla

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Im the article I posted a few replies up Amtrak admits they have stopped sales. They are “working on“ allowing customers to book trips. It’s the same theme everywhere. “We‘re working on allowing coach customers to eat in diner”, “We’re working on new bedding“, “we’re working on retrofitting diners”, Now it’s we’re working on allowing customers to buy tickets???? Really?


You left out timetables.


----------



## jis

The ticketing saga merely strengthens the case in favor of the conjecture that the current crew maintaining and updating the Reservation and Ticketing System is driving partially blind by trial and error, and minimal testing before launching stuff off to the customer.


----------



## zephyr17

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Eliminating sales on the coastline from LAX-SMF and all points in between during summer peak is insane.


Amtrak does not serve Sacramento International Airport (SMF) even when bridges are intact and ticket sales are open.

Amtrak station code for Sacramento is SAC. While Amtrak uses 3 position codes for its stations, and some are common with airline codes, many are not (ORL not MCO, SFC not SFO, VAC not YVR as examples, as well as SAC). Amtrak station codes are a separate and distinct codeset.

I do agree that not selling space on the Starlight from points south to Sacramento is insane, though.


----------



## Trogdor

Starlight is open for sale, but only a few days at a time. When I checked earlier, it was available through the end of this weekend but not beyond that.

Fine for walk-up sales, but not for anyone who does any kind of advance planning.


----------



## Oreius

It’s been about a month since the wildfire destroyed the trestle in Northern California. Can anyone provide a status update on repairs? 51 days until my trip…


----------



## Cal

Oreius said:


> It’s been about a month since the wildfire destroyed the trestle in Northern California. Can anyone provide a status update on repairs? 51 days until my trip…


Should be done by early September


----------



## DennisInGeorgia

Cal said:


> Should be done by early September


Please define “early September” I’m booked on 11 PDX-SAC and really nervous.


----------



## jis

DennisInGeorgia said:


> Please define “early September” I’m booked on 11 PDX-SAC and really nervous.


Currently Amtrak allows one to book a ticket from Emeryville to Portland, so they believe that the train will be running on September 11. That is about the most that one can learn, since no one can guess for sure what will actually happen beyond that.


----------



## Blackwolf

DennisInGeorgia said:


> Please define “early September” I’m booked on 11 PDX-SAC and really nervous.


Since both UP and BNSF are both heavily impacted by the Siskiyou, Gateway and Feather River lines suffering substantial vegetation fire damage, you can be assured by one thing.

The Siskiyou line is the only one of the three major routes that is no longer on fire (the other two are physically still burning, and will be for many days to come as the Dixie Fire continues to grow). This makes it priority #1 for Omaha to rebuild... Out of the -entire- UP system network. It will be done in September, Wall Street demands it. The better question is when will the traffic backlog get to the point that UP allows Amtrak back on it's line again.


----------



## Sidney

jis said:


> Currently Amtrak allows one to book a ticket from Emeryville to Portland, so they believe that the train will be running on September 11. That is about the most that one can learn, since no one can guess for sure what will actually happen beyond that.


I'm booked from Sea-Sac on Sept 12. It's part of a railpass,so if I have to be bustituted it will just be an inconvenience. If I had a sleeper I 'd be a bit annoyed


----------



## Brian Battuello

I've been away for a week, so apologize if this has already been posted:









Union Pacific’s Fire Car Fleet Provided Critical Assist in Lava Fire


The first time a Union Pacific fire-fighting crew tried to reach the Dry Canyon Bridge in Northern California, they had to turn back. The risk of being trapped by the Lava Fire sweeping across the Shasta-Trinity National Forest was too high.



www.up.com





An interesting summary by UP about the damage to the bridge and their repair efforts.


----------



## zephyr17

UP announced they now expect to have the Dry Canyon Trestle back in service in early August.

While it doesn't mention Amtrak at all, I wouldn't get my hopes up for an early resumption of Amtrak service. I am sure UP would be happy to not have to deal with Amtrak for 5 or 6 weeks while they clear backlogged trains and unscrew their traffic patterns. Since they have an announced date with Amtrak, September 8th, they really have no reason to move that up and every reason not to.









Dry Canyon Bridge and Dixie Fire Update


Union Pacific Customer Announcement



www.up.com


----------



## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> UP announced they now expect to have the Dry Canyon Trestle back in service in early August.
> 
> While it doesn't mention Amtrak at all, I wouldn't get my hopes up for an early resumption of Amtrak service. I am sure UP would be happy to not have to deal with Amtrak for 5 or 6 weeks while they clear backlogged trains and unscrew their traffic patterns. Since they have an announced date with Amtrak, September 8th, they really have no reason to move that up and every reason not to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dry Canyon Bridge and Dixie Fire Update
> 
> 
> Union Pacific Customer Announcement
> 
> 
> 
> www.up.com


Well I’m holding off officially canceling my trip anyway.


----------



## oregon pioneer

Update forwarded today by my friend who lives in Mt. Shasta:


----------



## Cal

Praying that my trip can still happen. Thanks for the update


----------



## zephyr17

That is consistent with the info posted on Trainorders.com. First UP train through likely Monday or Tuesday.




__





A real freight train in Dunsmuir Yard this morning






www.trainorders.com





I wouldn't get my hopes up for the Starlight to resume early for a couple of reasons:
- Amtrak already announced annulment of the Starlight 8/8-8/23 for bridge work on the Coast Line. That bridge work is going forward in any case, and I don't think Amtrak and UP would replace it with a Tehachapi detour at this late date, when the service advisories have been published already and presumably passengers notified .
- I just don't think UP will want to resume Starlight service any earlier than they have to. They have a 9/8 date arranged with Amtrak already and don't have much reason to change it. This way they have lots of time to clear their freight backlogs and get their traffic patterns normalized. Also, they may be hosting BNSF detours since now the Inside Gateway's closed.
- Given the general inflexibility of Amtrak, it may be they just want to stick to their plans and not fiddle around with their inflexible systems any more. Shows the great deal of faith I have in Amtrak's competence.

I think the most optimistic view I would have is Amtrak might resume after the Coast Line bridge work is done on 8/23. That gives UP a few weeks to clear things up, and Amtrak time to adjust their reservations. Also means they don't have to keep paying for charter buses. I am not betting on that though. I think they'll stick to 9/8, but I hope I am wrong.


----------



## moosejunky99

this was only thing i saw on the amtrak twitter feed...


----------



## Cal

moosejunky99 said:


> this was only thing i saw on the amtrak twitter feed...


This has already been posted


----------



## moosejunky99

My fault.. didn't notice it was 13 pages deep when i was on page 1 still reading... you guys are good resource of info.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

TrackWalker said:


> Location of UP bridge.
> Siskiyou line heads off to the Northwest from Weed, CA.
> 
> View attachment 23596
> 
> 
> UP Update 7/12


The environment did it... and... We did it to the environment!


----------



## oregon pioneer

Latest update from my contact in Mt. Shasta: Here come the trains: UP finished repairs to bridge damaged by Lava Fire ahead of schedule



> Dry Canyon Bridge, which was damaged July 28 in the Lava Fire, reopened Sunday after repairs to the structure progressed faster than Union Pacific first expected.
> 
> Originally, UP said it would take until the end of the month for the bridge – located about five miles northeast of Weed – to be serviceable, said Robynn Tysver, a communications manager for the railroad. Freight trains had been diverted over Donner Pass.
> 
> In an announcement Monday, UP commended its engineering and operating teams, "who have been working around the clock to restore service."
> 
> "We expect to see continued transit delays over the next few weeks as we reposition resources," UP said in the statement.



Of course, I have no idea what this means for Amtrak, and they don't say in the article.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

UP has to clear a backlog of traffic... but this is certainly good news for the CS... will be watching the Amtrak bulletins for updates... the last update on the CS was July 15... but things have certainly changed since then.


----------



## PaTrainFan

Isn't it amazing how quickly corporate America can get things done when profits are being held in the balance?


----------



## flitcraft

PaTrainFan said:


> Isn't it amazing how quickly corporate America can get things done when profits are being held in the balance?


Too true, too true. But that ought to go for Amtrak, too, since the summer is clearly their busiest time for LD trains, especially the lucrative sleepers. I would presume that they will push to get the CS back as soon as practicable. Cancelled bookings won't be made up in the fall and winter, for the most part.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

flitcraft said:


> Too true, too true. But that ought to go for Amtrak, too, since the summer is clearly their busiest time for LD trains, especially the lucrative sleepers. I would presume that they will push to get the CS back as soon as practicable. Cancelled bookings won't be made up in the fall and winter, for the most part.


We gotta hope for the best that Amtrak and UP will now get it all together! And the little engine said, "I think I can, I think I can!"

That said... 'You and Me and We' all have to do our fair share for the environment to stop the global warming crisis!


----------



## Oreius

There were “Angels On The Trestle!”


----------



## Cal

Amtrak called us today saying our trip for August 11 was cancelled.


----------



## Barb Stout

Cal said:


> Amtrak called us today saying our trip for August 11 was cancelled.


Why?


----------



## Bob Dylan

Barb Stout said:


> Why?


Even though the Dry Canyon Bridge is now open and UP is running Freight Trains,there is Track Work going on between Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo.

He didn't indicate if there was Alternate Transportation offered, ie a Bus Bridge on 101.


----------



## jis

Bob Dylan said:


> Even though the Dry Canyon Bridge is now open and UP is running Freight Trains,there is Track Work going on between Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo.
> 
> He didn't indicate if there was Alternate Transportation offered, ie a Bus Bridge on 101.


For the LAX - EMY segment presumably the Thruway + San Joaquin alternative is available, no? Also I presume the Thruway buses are still running to San louis Obispo from the south continue to run.


----------



## Bob Dylan

jis said:


> For the LAX - EMY segment presumably the Thruway + San Joaquin alternative is available, no? Also I presume the Thruway buses are still running to San louis Obispo from the south continue to run.


I'm pretty sure those alternatives are available, but since I know Cal, who lives in SOCAL, I'm certain he doesn't want to ride a Bus!


----------



## jis

Bob Dylan said:


> I'm pretty sure those alternatives are available, but since I know Cal, who lives in SOCAL, I'm certain he doesn't want to ride a Bus!


But then even a bus bridge is a bus. You were wondering if there is a bus bridge and I was pointing out that there are plenty of pre-existing bridges, thus precluding the necessity of additional bus bridges.


----------



## Cal

Bob Dylan said:


> He didn't indicate if there was Alternate Transportation offered, ie a Bus Bridge on 101.


Amtrak said no alternate transportation would be offered (not that I want to ride a bus anyway), I think you'd have to book an entire new reservation to get put on a bus/San Joaquin pair. 


Amtrak called again about my return trip on August 13, but instead of saying cancelled they said it's been delayed. Currently on hold waiting for an agent...


----------



## jis

I get the impression that Amtrak has progressively gotten more haphazard and disorganized in handling IROPs. This may be due to brain drain and the fresh ones being inexperienced/poorly trained.

I would have imagined that in the days of yore, Amtrak would have automatically offered a San Joaquin alternative to anyone traveling through that wanted to partake. But then again, if they are not running EMY/OKJ to PDX/SEA either, it might be somewhat pointless. But still, those traveling only to the Bay area should have been offered the alternative. I think all this comes partly from certain characters in the executive suites of Amtrak not believing that they are actually charged with running a real transportation service rather than a large HO set for hobby.


----------



## Cal

Amtrak is saying we have three months to keep the 50 dollar rate we got, unfortunately our schedule makes it impossible for that to happen, and the tracks aren't even open till September 7th (one of those three months). I'm curious, you think there's any chance a different agent would allow for that period to be extended?


----------



## OBS

Cal said:


> Amtrak is saying we have three months to keep the 50 dollar rate we got, unfortunately our schedule makes it impossible for that to happen, and the tracks aren't even open till September 7th (one of those three months). I'm curious, you think there's any chance a different agent would allow for that period to be extended?


I would wait about two months, then call and plead your case...


----------



## Cal

Spoke to a different agent, switch tripped to mid December, no extra charge (so I got to keep the 50 dollar rate)! Maybe coach will be able to eat in the diner by then too.


----------



## Brian Battuello

Good work!


----------



## YourFoodSherpa

Cal said:


> Amtrak called us today saying our trip for August 11 was cancelled.


You got a call? I got an email saying that my 8/23 PDX-LAX leg was canceled, and no alternative provided. I had understood that I would be routed from PDX-KFS by train, and then KFS-SAC via bus, to connect to a train SAC-LAX. Now, I'm in a pickle, because this is part of a much bigger trip, and I need to figure out how I'm going to get from Portland to LA.


----------



## zephyr17

YourFoodSherpa said:


> You got a call? I got an email saying that my 8/23 PDX-LAX leg was canceled, and no alternative provided. I had understood that I would be routed from PDX-KFS by train, and then KFS-SAC via bus, to connect to a train SAC-LAX. Now, I'm in a pickle, because this is part of a much bigger trip, and I need to figure out how I'm going to get from Portland to LA.


Can you push back one day to the 24th? 8/23 is the last day of the service cancellation due to Coast Line bridge work. On the 24th, they are back to the KFS-SAC bus bridge.

I don't know if Amtrak will rebook you since they aren't really selling space on the train-bus-train Starlight (which is messed up all by itself) but my opinion is they should since you already had a reservation.

Of course, there is always Alaska Airlines, which has a lot of PDX-LAX service. Personally, despite my love of train travel, I'd fly Alaska over an overnight bus ride any time.


----------



## YourFoodSherpa

zephyr17 said:


> Can you push back one day to the 24th? 8/23 is the last day of the service cancellation due to Coast Line bridge work. On the 24th, they are back to the KFS-SAC bus bridge.
> 
> I don't know if Amtrak will rebook you since they aren't really selling space on the train-bus-train Starlight (which is messed up all by itself) but my opinion is they should since you already had a reservation.
> 
> Of course, there is always Alaska Airlines, which has a lot of PDX-LAX service. Personally, despite my love of train travel, I'd fly Alaska over an overnight bus ride any time.


The bigger issue with the flight is the added expense. I booked this trip because it was affordable. I have searched flights from PDX-LAX and from PDX-SMF, hoping that I could just transfer to the train in Sacramento. The negative is the added expense that is just not convenient at this time.


----------



## zephyr17

YourFoodSherpa said:


> The bigger issue with the flight is the added expense. I booked this trip because it was affordable. I have searched flights from PDX-LAX and from PDX-SMF, hoping that I could just transfer to the train in Sacramento. The negative is the added expense that is just not convenient at this time.


Well, SMF wouldn't work anyway because the train is annulled south of Sacramento. The reason for the outright cancellation 8/9 to 8/23 is bridge work on the Coast Line south of San Luis Obispo. Although the southern Starlight stub wouldn't be running, you could patch together a San Joaquin/Bakersfield bus or Capitol Corridor/Thruway bus/Surfliner alternative from Sac, though.

Your best bet then is to contact Amtrak and see if they'll rebook you the next day on 8/24 when the train/bus/train service officially resumes (and maybe all rail service if Amtrak can get UP to authorize early resumption since the Dry Creek Trestle is now repaired and back in service). Amtrak usually is pretty reasonable in situations like this if you contact them.


----------



## YourFoodSherpa

zephyr17 said:


> Well, SMF wouldn't work anyway because the train is annulled south of Sacramento. The reason for the outright cancellation 8/9 to 8/23 is bridge work on the Coast Line south of San Luis Obispo. Although the southern Starlight stub wouldn't be running, you could patch together a San Joaquin/Bakersfield bus or Capitol Corridor/Thruway bus/Surfliner alternative from Sac, though.
> 
> Your best bet then is to contact Amtrak and see if they'll rebook you the next day on 8/24 when the train/bus/train service officially resumes (and maybe all rail service if Amtrak can get UP to authorize early resumption since the Dry Creek Trestle is now repaired and back in service). Amtrak usually is pretty reasonable in situations like this if you contact them.


I put a call in. I'm in the call-back queue now.


----------



## zephyr17

YourFoodSherpa said:


> I put a call in. I'm in the call-back queue now.


Good luck.


----------



## Chris I

I can't imagine that this bus bridge and train turn plan is more cost-effective than just running the trains from SEA-EMY with onward bus connections to LAX during the track work north of LA. I understand that UP repaired this bridge a month ahead of schedule, but you would think Amtrak would be able to respond quickly and restore this important service. Cancelling a full month's worth of trains in the overnight section during the busy summer travel season when the track is now open just looks bad.


----------



## jis

Chris I said:


> I can't imagine that this bus bridge and train turn plan is more cost-effective than just running the trains from SEA-EMY with onward bus connections to LAX during the track work north of LA. I understand that UP repaired this bridge a month ahead of schedule, but you would think Amtrak would be able to respond quickly and restore this important service. Cancelling a full month's worth of trains in the overnight section during the busy summer travel season when the track is now open just looks bad.


Then again, none of us know what UP has chosen to do or allow yet. Amtrak is not in a position to respond any faster than what UP permits it to do.


----------



## zephyr17

jis said:


> Then again, none of us know what UP has chosen to do or allow yet. Amtrak is not in a position to respond any faster than what UP permits it to do.


And UP is not known for being Amtrak friendly.

I said it before, UP and Amtrak set a service resumption date of 9/8. Even though 9/8 was based on a completion date of 9/1, UP has no reason to change it and every reason not to in order to clear their backlog and normalize their traffic patterns without having to account for Amtrak. UP did not spend millions and mount an all hands on deck effort to restore the line for Amtrak's benefit, but rather to move their own freight. Amtrak would have to lean pretty hard on them to have any chance of changing the date. It is not clear Amtrak even wants to, and in any case, Amtrak has little leverage.

Early restoration depends on UP being "nice". UP does not have a history of being nice.


----------



## Oreius

Why can’t they just reroute the Starlight over the Central Valley? I’ve read they have done that during track work on its normal route south of Oakland.


----------



## zephyr17

Oreius said:


> Why can’t they just reroute the Starlight over the Central Valley? I’ve read they have done that during track work on its normal route south of Oakland.


They could have. I have heard that was the initial plan for this planned maintenance work until the suspension of service between Sac and K Falls due to the Dry Creek Trestle damage.

Apparently they thought it wasn't worth it once the Starlight got stubbed to Sacramento. The Tehachapi detour, as it is usually done, misses all stops between Oakland and LA, as well as missing the run along the Coast.

I was lucky enough to catch a detour a few years ago due to Metrolink work on Tunnel 26 near Chatsworth, and there were very few people on the train between Oakland and LA.

Ironically, with the Dry Creek Trestle back in service, the Sacramento truncation is no longer physically necessary.

Tehachapi detours are usually require a lot of advance planning with UP, and UP is always reticent about it. Tehachapi is an extremely busy mountain railroad, much of it single track. They didn't allow it all for decades, and only started to allow them in the last few years.

Neither Amtrak nor UP finalized such a detour before the service truncation, and with plans now firmed up, and with traffic patterns generally snarled on both UP and BNSF (a tenant on Tehachapi) by fires, there is no way UP will let them on now.


----------



## west point

A thought. It may be that both Amtrak and UP are concerned about fires both in progress and future ones. A bus bridge over the route can be cut by any of road or UP route. Not saying that is what is going on but maybe ??? That might even be a reason UP will not allow Cal Z to go thru Wyoming due to possible more freight detours.??


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Rising from the Ashes: Dry Canyon Bridge Rebuilt in One Month


----------



## Oreius

The “Trestle Angels!”


----------



## WWW

AmtrakBlue said:


> Rising from the Ashes: Dry Canyon Bridge Rebuilt in One Month


As noted this was all done on UP's dime - no government funding "YET" !


----------



## MARC Rider

WWW said:


> As noted this was all done on UP's dime - no government funding "YET" !


I would find the process of how this happened to be interesting. 

First there's the issue of the corporate decision to swiftly switch allocation of corporate funds toward this project. As we all know, the Union Pacific is not run on democratic principles, so if the top leadership is convinced that a swiftly emerging project is essential to the health of the company, they can almost instantaneously decide to fund that project. No endless discussion with board members, shareholders, management stakeholders with other priorities, and the public, nor are there endless discussions in social media and the press about whether the company should do this and how they should do it.

Second, once the decision is made, staff has to procure the services of contractors and obtain the needed materials for the project. I'm not sure what the corporate bureaucracy in UP is like with regard to this, but they must have some interest in ensuring that they get contractors who do good work at a fair price, the latter being a rather sensitive topic, given this company's history in this matter.  

Given that they have been apparently able to rebuild this ahead of schedule (they don't say whether it was under budget or not), maybe there are some best practices about decision making and procurement that could be adopted by the public operators of infrastructure.


----------



## CACharger262

For those still keeping tabs, the Dry Canyon Bridge at Hotlum was approved for passenger train travel yesterday. Pending UP approval, the CS could get a weeks worth of reroute through the San Joaquin Valley and Tehachapi loop starting next Monday the 16th. Once the Narlon bridge work is completed, full service with no reroutes or bus bridges Seattle to Los Angeles would resume on or around the 23rd


----------



## AmtrakBlue

I saw this earlier on FB from someone I believe works for Amtrak and is in a position to know.



> Hot off the press folks; Coast starlight will begin normal operations effective 8-23. That’s right.


----------



## zephyr17

AmtrakBlue said:


> I saw this earlier on FB from someone I believe works for Amtrak and is in a position to know.


The "Schedules" tab does now show the train running through starting 8/23. No more 3 segment 11/3011/1011 stuff.

It shows "No trains matching your request" on the Booking tab, though. My take is the train will be running through, but Amtrak's ace IT team hasn't gotten it straightened out in Arrow yet.


----------



## oregon pioneer

AmtrakBlue said:


> I saw this earlier on FB from someone I believe works for Amtrak and is in a position to know.



Seeing the same notification from my friend in Mt. Shasta:


----------



## Cal

So will they begin operations prior to the 23 over Tehachapi? Or are they just gonna resume completely normal operations on the 23rd.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Cal said:


> So will they begin operations prior to the 23 over Tehachapi? Or are they just gonna resume completely normal operations on the 23rd.


TBD, it has to be worked out with UP!


----------



## zephyr17

Cal said:


> So will they begin operations prior to the 23 over Tehachapi? Or are they just gonna resume completely normal operations on the 23rd.


The Schedules tab shows no service until 8/23, then through service.

Amtrak having cancelled the train entirely starting this last Monday, I doubt they would start it back up suddenly, having cancelled the reservations. They have already driven off the passengers.


----------



## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> The Schedules tab shows no service until 8/23, then through service.
> 
> Amtrak having cancelled the train entirely starting this last Monday, I doubt they would start it back up suddenly, having cancelled the reservations. They have already driven off the passengers.


Makes sense, I myself had to change my reservation all the way till December.


----------



## zephyr17

Amtrak.com service alert has now been modified to show service south of K Falls only cancelled through 8/22.

Still not bookable until 9/8.


----------



## TheTuck

The SAC to KFS segment has been available to Amtrak for 3 days now, yet Amtrak is unable (unwilling) to operate south of KFS due to the Narlon Bridge project in Central California. The Starlight could be operating between Seattle and Northern California but this would require 3 sets of equipment. The needed third set is currently stuck in LA with no route available to Northern California. I said Amtrak is unwilling because there is ample equipment elsewhere in the system and a simple transfer of equipment from LAX to CHI to SEA or OAK should've already occured and allowed for resumption of service by now. By waiting until August 23, Amtrak shows us how unimaginative they are and unwilling to do anything other than the status quo.


----------



## Cal

TheTuck said:


> The SAC to KFS segment has been available to Amtrak for 3 days now, yet Amtrak is unable (unwilling) to operate south of KFS due to the Narlon Bridge project in Central California. The Starlight could be operating between Seattle and Northern California but this would require 3 sets of equipment. The needed third set is currently stuck in LA with no route available to Northern California. I said Amtrak is unwilling because there is ample equipment elsewhere in the system and a simple transfer of equipment from LAX to CHI to SEA or OAK should've already occured and allowed for resumption of service by now. By waiting until August 23, Amtrak shows us how unimaginative they are and unwilling to do anything other than the status quo.


I doubt UP is letting them resume normal service with their backlog


----------



## TheTuck

Cal said:


> I doubt UP is letting them resume normal service with their backlog


That's exactly what Amtrak would make you believe


----------



## Cal

TheTuck said:


> That's exactly what Amtrak would make you believe


And also something that is very plausible.


----------



## CACharger262

Last I heard, UP told Amtrak no re-route through the valley and loop. Now they are currently negotiating a deadhead equipment move from LA to Oakland so they may run EMY to SEA. No word yet if the UP will at least agree to that


----------



## Rasputin

Amtrak is sort of like your little brother. Patiently sitting on a bench at the side of the game, waiting for the big boys to either get tired or finish their game so it will finally be his chance to play.


----------



## WillyGonmyway

Service from Seattle to Los Angeles will be open AUG 24th, 2021 according to AMTRAK this morning. YEAH!!!


----------



## zephyr17

WillyGonmyway said:


> Service from Seattle to Los Angeles will be open AUG 24th, 2021 according to AMTRAK this morning. YEAH!!!


It is still screwed up in the reservation system, though.

It now shows up from 8/23 - 8/26 in the website booking page, but with coach and business class "sold out" and only rooms available.

From 8/26 to 9/7 the website booking engine shows no service.

From 9/8 on it appears normally.

Got to hand it to Amtrak IT. UP could fix a huge burned out and twisted bridge a month ahead of schedule, but Amtrak cannot get a train to show in its reservation system correctly after they publically announced resumption of service. You would think that would be the easy part.


----------



## jis

Interestingly the only thing I seem to get for 8/28 is "unknown error"!

Clearly years of neglect and underfunding of the IT system has made Amtrak now the proud owner of the most dysfunctional IT system of all the major passenger railroad systems of the world. Hopefully there is at least a few loose pennies around i the billions of dollars to buy shiny other stuff in the works. The entire system needs to be torn out and replaced from the ground up.


----------



## zephyr17

jis said:


> Interestingly the only thing I seem to get for 8/28 is "unknown error"!
> 
> Clearly years of neglect and underfunding of the IT system has made Amtrak now the proud owner of the ost dysfunctional IT system of all the major passenger railroad systems of the world. Hopefully there is at least a few loose pennies around i the billions of dollars to buy shiny other stuff in the works. The entire system needs to be torn out and replaced from the ground up.


They appear to be actively working it. 8/28 is now in the system and 8/23-8/26 now shows normal availability in all classes of service (and a $300 drop in room prices).


----------



## Triley

TheTuck said:


> That's exactly what Amtrak would make you believe



If you were out working in the area, you would know how believable this is.... Between the backlog of freight traffic, and the heat restrictions this week, trains have been getting dogged left and right between Portland and Eugene all week. On one day in particular I was ~2 hours late just between Eugene and Portland, with probably 1.5 hours of it being caused by traffic. Out of 4 trains south of Portland this week, the closest I came to being on-time was ~45 minutes late, at a time of day when there's not as much other rail traffic around. The Starlight runs during prime time when in the effected areas.


----------



## Anthony V

The good news is that this is not going to be another Sunset East situation. (Using a major disaster as an excuse to truncate an underperforming route).


----------



## Ryan

Triley said:


> If you were out working in the area, you would know how believable this is.... Between the backlog of freight traffic, and the heat restrictions this week, trains have been getting dogged left and right between Portland and Eugene all week. On one day in particular I was ~2 hours late just between Eugene and Portland, with probably 1.5 hours of it being caused by traffic. Out of 4 trains south of Portland this week, the closest I came to being on-time was ~45 minutes late, at a time of day when there's not as much other rail traffic around. The Starlight runs during prime time when in the effected areas.


Don't be confusing the issue with all your fancy logic and facts. Everyone Knows that Amtrak is evil and incompetent and trying to do everything they can to fail. They're so bad at that they've even managed to fail at failing, Producers-style for 50 years.


----------



## JayPea

Ryan said:


> Don't be confusing the issue with all your fancy logic and facts. Everyone Knows that Amtrak is evil and incompetent and trying to do everything they can to fail. They're so bad at that they've even managed to fail at failing, Producers-style for 50 years.


The upgrades on the long distance routes are an example of how bad Amtrak is at failing. Return to daily service, upgrade the food on the Western routes that was a step above pre-Covid levels, eventually returning upgraded dining to the Eastern routes, and completely refurbishing cars. We all know Amtrak is trying to discourage long distance service. What an incompetent and backwards way of doing it!


----------



## PaTrainFan

JayPea said:


> ....eventually returning upgraded dining to the Eastern routes, and completely refurbishing cars.



On the dining, we'll believe it when we see it. Amtrak has earned our skepticism here. And it is very generous to say they have "completely refurbished cars." A superficial refresh is more accurate.


----------



## zephyr17

JayPea said:


> The upgrades on the long distance routes are an example of how bad Amtrak is at failing. Return to daily service, upgrade the food on the Western routes that was a step above pre-Covid levels, eventually returning upgraded dining to the Eastern routes, and completely refurbishing cars. We all know Amtrak is trying to discourage long distance service. What an incompetent and backwards way of doing it!


Well, I am not sure how much credit I give them for partly undoing the damage they did all by themselves in the case of dining.

If they weren't incompetent and backwards they might have kept up with maintenance so they could run full consists in this busy period. For example, where is the second Seattle coach on Builder? Why isn't there a Sightseer on the Eagle?

And then there's the state of their IT, a beacon of competence.

Sorry, it still seems like grand tradition of incompetent Amtrak upper management is alive and well.


----------



## Oreius

That means my trip is going to happen!!


----------



## JayPea

On the subject of their IT issues, I would agree that's a total mess.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Yes... but that's the way the government does things!

Stop complaining about Amtrak's 1970's reservation technology...


----------



## lordsigma

actually the “glitches” are by design and are not a glitch at all. They are blocking out certain dates in certain classes on arrow to give them a chance to re-accommodate and re-book affected passengers. They will open it up to general bookings when that process of reaching out to people is complete so for a while it will be screwy.


----------



## TheTuck

Triley said:


> If you were out working in the area, you would know how believable this is.... Between the backlog of freight traffic, and the heat restrictions this week, trains have been getting dogged left and right between Portland and Eugene all week. On one day in particular I was ~2 hours late just between Eugene and Portland, with probably 1.5 hours of it being caused by traffic. Out of 4 trains south of Portland this week, the closest I came to being on-time was ~45 minutes late, at a time of day when there's not as much other rail traffic around. The Starlight runs during prime time when in the effected areas.


Despite these current conditions, the route between KFS and SAC has been available to Amtrak for 5 days now, yet still no passenger trains.


JayPea said:


> The upgrades on the long distance routes are an example of how bad Amtrak is at failing. Return to daily service, upgrade the food on the Western routes that was a step above pre-Covid levels, eventually returning upgraded dining to the Eastern routes, and completely refurbishing cars. We all know Amtrak is trying to discourage long distance service. What an incompetent and backwards way of doing it!


Despite your sarcasm, I still don't see things as rosy as you do. Daily service has returned but at reduced consists and capacity. The food on western trains has been upgraded yes, but is still only available to first class sleeping car passengers. Promises of future improvements and refurbished equipment make for nice marketing, but don't help with day to day operations.


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## Cal

TheTuck said:


> Despite these current conditions, the route between KFS and SAC has been available to Amtrak for 5 days now, yet still no passenger trains.


Again, UP has a large backlog of freight, I doubt they want Amtrak on their tracks. And second, Amtrak already negotiated and announced service to be stopped until September. They had to re-negotiate with possibly stubborn UP for the date on the 23rd. When the original deal was negotiated, Amtrak wasn't going to be allowed on till September 7th when the bridge completion date was set for (correct me if I am wrong) the first. It is possible that some of it is due to Amtrak, but I personally believe it's mostly, if not all UP's fault. 



TheTuck said:


> Despite your sarcasm, I still don't see things as rosy as you do. Daily service has returned but at reduced consists and capacity. The food on western trains has been upgraded yes, but is still only available to first class sleeping car passengers. Promises of future improvements and refurbished equipment make for nice marketing, but don't help with day to day operations.


Reduced consists are to catch up on maintenance (totally their fault as far as I'm concerned, could've done it last year) and refresh superliner interiors (which will result in hopefully better comfort). And isn't them actually refreshing superliners showing that they *somewhat* care about long distance and have some competency in them?


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## John Santos

20th Century Rider said:


> Yes... but that's the way the government does things!
> 
> Stop complaining about Amtrak's 1970's reservation technology...
> 
> View attachment 23925


Hey, that's RT11! I know it well. On a DEC PDP-11, displayed on a DEC VT100, the archetypical character-cell terminal from which all others (mostly) were derived.


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## 20th Century Rider

John Santos said:


> Hey, that's RT11! I know it well. On a DEC PDP-11, displayed on a DEC VT100, the archetypical character-cell terminal from which all others (mostly) were derived.


Truly cutting edge stuff! Leave it to the experts at the Amtrak IT dept!


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## F900ElCapitan

So is there any way to know if rooms are blocked or if they are actually occupied? My wife and I are currently booked in the 1140 car on Sept 11 and they have officially cancelled that car. Amtrak is saying ALL other rooms are booked and my choice is to move to business and get a refund. Personally, I’m not interested in having to wear a mask all night AND not have access to the diner. I am really curious if some of the rooms are blocked due to this trains previous issues. I’ve asked 3 agents so far that claim the rooms occupied, but the last one admitted they may be blocked, but he couldn’t say for sure. So I’m debating making a drastic routing change due to part of this is connecting to the Texas Eagle in LAX and we can‘t be flexible with our schedule, but would rather stick with our original plan.

Thoughts?


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## chakk

I had a VT-132 compatible dumb terminal for my Internet connections at work before my department received the FIRST IBM PC-XT purchased by the division. Included a monochrome AND a color monitor, a dot matrix AND a typewriter-like printer, an internal 10 megabyte hard drive AND an external 10 megabyte Davong hard drive (the size of a bread box) AND 512 megabytes of RAM. We used a sign-up sheet to share the PC with the other 30 folks in our division. Life was good!


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## Willbridge

As I posted in the August travel plans forum, I was booked on Train 14 for OKJ to PDX on August 5th. I never got that far because Train 5 from DEN on August 1st was canceled and so I went by bus from DEN to PDX instead.

My return from PDX on Train 11 of August 12th to DAV was altered by the bridge fire into PDX>KFS, KFS-SAC, SAC-DAV. That made sense and then that was canceled with no substitute.

*With last-minute fares on other routes/modes at overheated summer prices I turned to the carrier of last resort and booked PDX>RDR on Greyhound (which had recently added a second trip on that route). RDR>SAC was on Amtrak Thruway and SAC>DAV was on the *_*Capitol Corridor.* _Here are some notes on the trip:




*Thursday, August 12* – Greyhound agent in their Portland storefront office confirmed that they would be running the entire Seattle<>Los Angeles route. She hadn’t heard yet whether it would arrive from Seattle on time. My brother drove me over to the boarding point north of the Union Station and the bus had arrived. It was a recycled BOLT bus still painted in that color scheme.

We departed about on time at 6:45 p.m. with a close to full load. At Salem the passengers boarding offset those alighting; at Corvallis the load began to lighten and from Eugene-Springfield I had a seat to myself. That was aided by the tv monitor that hung over the adjacent seat; boarding passengers scouting for seats avoided it. At Roseburg we made a double-stop – downtown first and then the truck/food stop – and a guy in the back of the bus who had ignored the driver’s announcement started shouting obscenities about his impression that the driver had missed the truck/food stop.

*Friday, August 13* – From Medford to Redding across Siskiyou Summit and the state line in the middle of the night there was a single seat for anyone who wanted it.

At Weed there was an uproar that woke about everyone. A man who had just been released from the hospital lost feeling in his legs and had to have help reaching and using the bathroom. He had trouble speaking. The driver was about to put him off but two young men offered to help him down the aisle and into the bathroom. I didn’t get a complete picture of most of this because I was on the other end of the bus but we lost over 40 minutes. He felt embarrassed and apologized to other passengers but the only comments were supportive. I was reminded of my observations that Greyhound passengers are often helpful to each other, more so than airline passengers.

It sounds terrible to say it, but this actually helped me by reducing the time for my connection in Redding’s intermodal center to less than an hour. The Amtrak Thruway gate was only about 150 feet from the Greyhound bus. Not much was happening there but I dragged my suitcase to the bench and watched the arriving Greyhound passengers disperse and early birds for the Thruway bus arrive. The air was warm and smoky. During the Greyhound rest stop and driver change a drug courier, nervously eyeing me, met a local purchaser at the next further gate for the “last mile” distribution. Then the courier returned to the Los Angeles-bound bus.

At 6:05 a.m. the Thruway bus to Sacramento and Stockton via the former Southern Pacific East Side line’s Sacramento Valley points departed on time. There were about half a dozen passengers starting out but by the time we arrived in Sacramento the bus was contributing about two dozen passengers to train connections. Amtrak ran some of us to the waiting _Capitol Corridor _in an electric cart and the train was on its way.

In Davis I rolled my suitcase the short distance to the renovated Hilton Garden Inn, expecting to drop off my baggage and to their credit they volunteered that they had a room available for an early check-in. That pleasant surprise characterized much of my visit to the college town. It was also more comfortable than expected. A cool breeze in evenings took the edge off of afternoon high temperatures and pushed out the smoke.

I checked with the Amtrak agent and their computer showed that Train 6 was expected to be operated on the 17th. For a few days it had been flagged on the reservation web page as canceled without an alternative. Given my experience with the revisions to westbound cancellations I would not have been surprised.

The eastbound _California Zephyr _turned out to be a further string of experiences, to be reported in some other thread.


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## Danib62

Willbridge said:


> At Weed there was an uproar that woke about everyone. A man who had just been released from the hospital lost feeling in his legs and had to have help reaching and using the bathroom. He had trouble speaking. The driver was about to put him off but two young men offered to help him down the aisle and into the bathroom. I didn’t get a complete picture of most of this because I was on the other end of the bus but we lost over 40 minutes. He felt embarrassed and apologized to other passengers but the only comments were supportive. I was reminded of my observations that Greyhound passengers are often helpful to each other, more so than airline passengers.


That sounds like it should merit a call to 9-1-1...


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## Danib62

Great news: my Allianz travel insurance policy is going to cover my trip interruption due to the CS cancellation. They're reimbursing me the cost of my flight from PDX-SFO as well as the cost of the hotel room I had to get. Now I kind of wish I had stayed at a nicer hotel...


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## YourFoodSherpa

Turns out that I was on the first train-only pass of the Coast Starlight, which departed Seattle yesterday. They're running a little late, but successfully navigated the stretch that had been turned into a bus route.


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## Cal

Uh oh...?


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## Cal

Thank god


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## Oreius

According to Amtrak, #11 was almost 4 hours late getting into LA yesterday due to mechanical issues and freight train interference near the Mount Shasta area. I’m keeping an eye on this train’s daily progress in preparation for my mid-September trip.


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## AmtrakBlue

Oreius said:


> According to Amtrak, #11 was almost 4 hours late getting into LA yesterday due to mechanical issues and freight train interference near the Mount Shasta area. I’m keeping an eye on this train’s daily progress in preparation for my mid-September trip.


The was a derailment near Dunsmore


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## Cal

AmtrakBlue said:


> The was a derailment near Dunsmore


Did you mean Dunsmuir?


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## zephyr17

Yeah, apparently a freight stringlined on the Cantara Loop. No pesticide dumped in the Sacramento River this time, though.


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## Cal

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, apparently a freight stringlined on the Cantara Loop. No pesticide dumped in the Sacramento River this time, though.


Yikes...


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## Alice

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, apparently a freight stringlined on the Cantara Loop. No pesticide dumped in the Sacramento River this time, though.


I thought after the pesticide business UP had to assemble their trains differently (locomotives not all in front) in order to prevent this??


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## jis

MODERATOR'S NOTE: All the posts pertaining to the 2022 Fire along the Coast Starlight route have been moved to its own thread to avoid further confusion. The new thread is:






Fires affecting the Coast Starlight in 2022


It’s been over a year since that trestle in Siskiyou County, CA was damaged by the Lava wildfire. As a result, my Coast Starlight trip that took place last September was in jeopardy. However, the saints of UP miraculously were able to repair the bridge and burnt track a month ahead of schedule...




www.amtraktrains.com





Thank you for your thoughtful suggestion, understanding and participation


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