# Transportation-Grand Forks ND to Winnipeg MB?



## JudyH (Mar 10, 2011)

Hello all,

We're going to be taking Amtrak Empire Builder in May, arriving in Grand Forks and after presumably staying overnight there, we need to get to Winnipeg, where we'll be staying for a week.

Our complete trip is from Langley, BC (Canada) to Winnipeg and back. I've booked the Seattle - Grand Forks rail portion and now need to fill in the rest. We can either drive or bus to Seattle to catch the train. After arrival at Grand Forks, things are up in the air.

The Jefferson Lines bus is no longer running between Grand Forks and Winnipeg. We need to rent a car for our week in Winnipeg. Our options:

1. take Amtrak back from GF to Seattle, get a one-week car rental in GF.

2. get the rental car in Grand Forks, pay the one way fee, and fly back to BC from Winnipeg.

3. get a bus or shuttle in Grand Forks to Winnipeg, rental car in Wpg, and fly back to BC from Wpg.

4. get a rental car in Grand Forks, return to GF, then fly from there back to Seattle.

Our preferred option is 3. but I can't find a shuttle or bus between GF and Wpg. Any ideas?

The other options are pretty expensive - one way car rental is $300-400 extra, flying GF - Seattle is more expensive and awkward than flying Winnipeg-Vancouver, and Amtrak's bedrooms are mostly full already for the dates we can travel.

We're a couple with two young children, greatly looking forward to our first big N. American rail trip.

Any ideas/thoughts would be much appreciated!

Regards,

Judy


----------



## TransitGeek (Mar 10, 2011)

Grand Forks' convention and visitor bureau site has a few phone numbers on it. I can't find any info on Triangle Transportation- maybe they're worth a call?

You also might want to look in to taking Via's _Canadian_, which would provide direct service from Vancouver-Winnipeg. As I understand it, she's a pretty nice train, too. It didn't sound like you had a particular penchant for being in Grand Forks.


----------



## Tumbleweed (Mar 10, 2011)

I hate to bring this up, but it may be well to keep an eye on this situation also.... click here


----------



## fairviewroad (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Judy --

I've done the Grand Forks-Winnipeg shuffle a number of times. You are right, Jefferson Bus Lines no longer runs to Winnipeg. But you wouldn't have wanted that option

anyhow since the bus schedule was in no way synced with the train schedule. You'd have had to wait most of the day in Grand Forks, plus take a cab from the GFK Amtrak

station to the Jefferson Bus Lines station downtown. (Grand Forks public transit does not serve the Amtrak station). Coming back was the same...a most-of-the-day layover

in Grand Forks. (In fact, the Amtrak schedule recommended Fargo as a connection point between the Empire Builder and Jefferson Bus Lines...but that simply meant a shorter

layover...it didn't shorten the overall trip).

AFAIK, there is no scheduled transportation currently between Grand Forks and Winnipeg. So you would need to rent a car in Grand Forks. Problem: Your train from

Seattle will arrive in Grand Forks at 1 o'clock in the morning, unless it's late--which is frequently the case. Most of the rental car agencies, including those at the airport, don't really open until 7 or 8 in the morning. So you'd have to hang out in the Grand Forks train station, then get a cab to the car rental (unless you can convince Enterprise to drive out to the Amtrak station to pick you up). Or, you could cab it to a hotel, keeping in mind that the train may arrive very late so your hotel room might only be a place for you to spend a few hours...then cab it to a car rental (or get Enterprise to pick you up). And this assumes the rental car places are OK with taking the car into Canada...you'd have to check on that.

But when you return the car to Grand Forks, keep in mind that your westbound train leaves GFK at 5 a.m. So you'd have to drop your car off the evening before, then cab it to

a hotel, then cab it to the train station in the middle of the night. (The GFK station only opens at midnight, so crashing overnight at the station is not the best option...but it's a pretty

drab place anyhow. ) Or, you could do an after hours drop off in the middle of the night, then try to find a cab driver at that hour to take you to the train station.

Bottom line is, there's just no good option for getting from Amtrak in Grand Forks to Winnipeg. I've managed by, um, bribing friends/relatives for rides.


----------



## railiner (Mar 10, 2011)

I've been looking for a solution, and to my dismay, it seems that there are no cross-border scheduled buses at any point from Blaine, Wa. (near Seattle), all the way until Detroit! Amazing!

There used to be a lot more in years past. The only thing I see in-between now is reference to an expensive limo on-call between St. Ignace and Sault Ste. Marie.


----------



## Mackensen (Mar 10, 2011)

railiner said:


> I've been looking for a solution, and to my dismay, it seems that there are no cross-border scheduled buses at any point from Blaine, Wa. (near Seattle), all the way until Detroit! Amazing!
> 
> There used to be a lot more in years past. The only thing I see in-between now is reference to an expensive limo on-call between St. Ignace and Sault Ste. Marie.


I forget the name but there's a cab company which will take you from Port Huron to Sarnia, but it's something like fifty bucks. Price wise you're probably better off just hopping the Maple Leaf...


----------



## Eric S (Mar 10, 2011)

Mackensen said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I've been looking for a solution, and to my dismay, it seems that there are no cross-border scheduled buses at any point from Blaine, Wa. (near Seattle), all the way until Detroit! Amazing!
> ...


Except that the _Maple Leaf_ will not really help anyone trying to get from Port Huron, MI to Sarnia, ON. The _International_ would, if it was still running between Chicago and Toronto, though.


----------



## bretton88 (Mar 10, 2011)

If you really need to get to Winnipeg, there is scheduled bus service from Fargo.


----------



## PRR 60 (Mar 10, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> If you really need to get to Winnipeg, there is scheduled bus service from Fargo.


Do you have a web link, carrier name or something?


----------



## bretton88 (Mar 10, 2011)

It's according to Greyhounds route map. But my apologies, when I try to book it, it sends me through michigan and Ontario. Ouch. So much for that route map.


----------



## Eric S (Mar 10, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> It's according to Greyhounds route map. But my apologies, when I try to book it, it sends me through michigan and Ontario. Ouch. So much for that route map.


Last time I looked at the route map on the Greyhound webpage, it was rather old and had not been updated to reflect some rather significant service changes (dropped routes) in recent years.


----------



## bretton88 (Mar 10, 2011)

What I find interesting is that it's still priced (48$) like a simple direct route, even though it's a two day nightmare.


----------



## fairviewroad (Mar 11, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> It's according to Greyhounds route map. But my apologies, when I try to book it, it sends me through michigan and Ontario. Ouch. So much for that route map.


Probably the route map hasn't been updated to reflect the fact that Jefferson Bus Lines, as noted above, stopped serving

that route last fall.


----------



## railiner (Mar 11, 2011)

It's not really relevant to the issue, but years ago, when Greyhound ran that route, there would often be Greyhound and other drivers riding that schedule to Pembina near the border, to pick up brand new MCI buses manufactured there (Greyhound owned MCI at the time).

Nowadays, MCI provides transportation from the Grand Forks or Winnipeg airports for that purpose.


----------



## Cascadia (Mar 11, 2011)

Dang I am sorry to hear there is no longer bus service to Winnipeg. I did that before, and was hoping to do it again sometime.

This is what I think you should do, you should buy a cheap boat and float up the Red River to Winnipeg.

Maybe I should move to Fargo and start a boat ferry service between Fargo and Winnipeg.

Or I thought before that I could buy a cheap canoe, float to Winnipeg (would that take a week? lol) sell it there and take the bus back (no paddling upstream!)

Can you imagine how bad the mosquitoes must be on the Red River?

Would be better off cross country skiiing on it when it's frozen I think.


----------



## greatcats (Mar 12, 2011)

In the late 60's when I was a teenager, my parents and I were driving with our house trailer from New Jersey to Banff, Alberta. We stopped for lunch in front of the MCI bus factory. As we were stopped that day, I recall seeing a southbound Northern Pacific Budd car train of one or two cars stop at Pembina. I believe those disappeared with Amtrak. Nowadays I drive ( usually ) a 1982 MCI in Ketchikan, Alaska for the cruise ship tours.


----------



## railiner (Mar 12, 2011)

greatcats said:


> In the late 60's when I was a teenager, my parents and I were driving with our house trailer from New Jersey to Banff, Alberta. We stopped for lunch in front of the MCI bus factory. As we were stopped that day, I recall seeing a southbound Northern Pacific Budd car train of one or two cars stop at Pembina. I believe those disappeared with Amtrak. Nowadays I drive ( usually ) a 1982 MCI in Ketchikan, Alaska for the cruise ship tours.


Very interesting!

But isn't it about time to replace that MC-9 with something a little newer? 

I was thinking of applying to Gray Line of Alaska to drive up there for the cruise ship season when I retire in a couple of years. They told me that you get employee benfits on Holland America and Princess cruises. Sounds like a nice five month a year retirement job...


----------



## greatcats (Mar 12, 2011)

railiner said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > In the late 60's when I was a teenager, my parents and I were driving with our house trailer from New Jersey to Banff, Alberta. We stopped for lunch in front of the MCI bus factory. As we were stopped that day, I recall seeing a southbound Northern Pacific Budd car train of one or two cars stop at Pembina. I believe those disappeared with Amtrak. Nowadays I drive ( usually ) a 1982 MCI in Ketchikan, Alaska for the cruise ship tours.
> ...



We have mostly very old buses in Ketchikan, including GMC commuter buses from the 70's, which lack power steering. Since we can't go further than 18 miles from downtown Ketchikan, the old fleet serves the purpose pretty well. I just came from a bus refresher training class in Phoenix. Yes, we do get cruise benefits and I will be on one in two weeks. But I goofed up the booking and thought I was doing the proper thing to book at the employee rate, but mistakenly booked full fare. The campany is refusing to change it, a matter of $1000. I wrote a letter to the president of Princess. I am not through discussing this with them, but may have to accept my error and reserve the benefit for a future cruise. I bet Amtrak would have taken care of this better - as someone said in another thread, when one talks to Amtrak Customer Service, they usually do everything possible to make matters right.


----------



## railiner (Mar 13, 2011)

greatcats said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > greatcats said:
> ...


Sorry about your problem. Seems kind of unreasonalble for them not to correct your error. Perhaps they figure you took away space from a "full-revenue" passenger, when you should have booked some kind of "space-available" booking? I don't know the details of your benefit, but that would be the only thing that I can think of that would justify their position.

Personally, I would prefer to drive out of Anchorage or Fairbanks to do longer cruise tours. I have always wanted to drive the Dalton Highway to Prudhoe Bay, especially since seeing the TV show "Ice Road Truckers". I have ridden as a passenger on the Alcan Highway back in 1970 when Coachways ran schedules over it with Western Flyer "brucks".


----------



## greatcats (Mar 13, 2011)

railiner said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...



From what I have heard from some other employees, this kind of situation invites abuse of the company - not sure how. You idea has merit. I made a mistake and the matter of the money is not so important, but it irks me that they will not listen to reason, but the matter is not finished yet. I am kind of looking forward to returning to Ketchikan on May 1. My car and i will be on the two night ferry from Bellingham, a non plush cruise in its own right, on the 1963 Malaspina, one of the Alaska Ferry's originals. I like it - the cabins are fairly nice, but otherwise rather old looking, with classic ship's lines.


----------



## fairviewroad (Mar 14, 2011)

Wow, can you say "off topic"? :huh:


----------



## judy (Mar 14, 2011)

Hi all,

Thank you for the all of the advice. An update with what I've found so far since my original posting:

1. Canadian residents CANNOT take a US (or Cdn?) rental car from the US into Canada so we can't rent a car in Grand Forks and drive ourselves. Apparently it's a new Cdn govt rule. I called Canada Customs at Emerson MB and they confirmed it - they would turn us back.

2. The reverse is not true - Enterprise RAC in Winnipeg said that we Canadians could get a rental car in Wpg and leave it at GFK, so note for future trips (we do this trip every year) - plan to fly Vanc-Wpg, then rent a car and leave it at GFK, then Amtrak back to SEA.

3. Re travelling on ViaRail in Canada instead of Amtrak - I'd considered this in past years but it is absurdly expensive, 2-10x the cost of either air in Canada or Amtrak in the US. The base fare can be not too bad but the sleeper add-on is ridiculous - something that on Amtrak was $328 would be $1000 on Via.

As an example, on March 10 or so I priced a trip for Sat May 21. From Grand Forks-Seattle on Amtrak was about $1091 and from Winnipeg to Vancouver on ViaRail was $1683 (2 adults, 1 child, 1 infant, with sleepers). On Air Canada, a three hour flight on May 21 from Winnipeg to Vancouver was $721

for all 4 of us.

Or, for a typically stupidly outrageous Via Rail price - today I checked for a departure date of Tues Sept 27. From Seattle to Grand Forks on Amtrak was $722.50 and from Vancouver to Winnipeg on ViaRail was $4,216.80! (2 adults, 1 child, 1 infant, with sleepers - Via's "cabin for 3", Amtrak's "family bedroom"). Without sleepers: Via's economy supersaver tickets $963.20 (2ad, 1ch, 1inf); Amtrak's 3 reserved coach seats: $387.50 (2ad, 1ch, 1inf).

4. Re rising lake levels - good point. I'll contact Amtrak before we travel and see if they're bussing passengers for Minot-GF. If so, I'll see if we can stay on the train to Fargo instead (to not spend the night on a bus!!).

5. Possibly good news on the ground transport front: I spoke to Jefferson Lines in Fargo, and their former Fargo-Grand Forks-Winnipeg service may restart in the spring - they're discussing it now. Their Fargo office says they stopped because the highway was closed so much for bad weather over the winter. Yes, the connection times still suck, but the alternative is to cancel the train trip entirely, something I really don't want to do.

6. Found a company, Winnipeg Shuttle (in Wpg) that will pick us up by car in GF & take us to Wpg, for $400. (a 3-hr drive each way) This could be our fall-back position if Jefferson doesn't restart by May 15 and if this is cheaper than buying a flight and cancelling Amtrak.

7. Greyhound definitely doesn't do a direct Fargo/Grand Forks to Winnipeg trip. It goes by Minneapolis or Chicago or somesuch, and takes 3 days! I could walk it faster than that.

8. To the poster with the boat idea - I'd love it! Sign us up  Uh, is that during the flood time?? Should be a fast trip 

Thanks again,

Judy


----------



## railiner (Mar 14, 2011)

fairviewroad said:


> Wow, can you say "off topic"? :huh:


You are correct, sorry about that...I've since used the private comm feature.


----------



## railiner (Mar 14, 2011)

judy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thank you for the all of the advice. An update with what I've found so far since my original posting:
> 
> ...


Wow, that shuttle service does seem steep. Makes me wonder if you could just get a taxi to transport you for less than that. Perhaps a taxi wouldn't be permitted to cross border?

Going all the way by Greyhound takes so long because it would require going through Sault Ste. Marie via Indian Trails and a limo connection. And it looks like they've even truncated some of those routes where you now have to go all the way through Chicago to get there, instead of around the north end of Lake Michigan.

Let's hope Jefferson does resume service.

It would be nice if Amtrak and Via could jointly sponsor a thruway bus on that route, if not.


----------



## greatcats (Mar 14, 2011)

fairviewroad said:


> Wow, can you say "off topic"? :huh:




Relapse - er - relax! :giggle: Rail Liner and I have now continued our discussion of these " off topics " to Email. :lol:


----------



## bretton88 (Mar 14, 2011)

Btw, greyhound tickets for all bus systems in the nation. So if Jefferson Lines offers the route again, Greyhound will route you on it.


----------



## fairviewroad (Mar 15, 2011)

judy said:


> Thanks again,
> 
> Judy


Thanks for sharing the results of your research here! I've heard that law about Canadians not being able to take a U-S rental

car into Canada, but forgot about it since it doesn't apply to me... 

BTW if Jefferson thinks winter is the only time the road from GFK to Winnipeg is closed...they'll be in for a rude shock during

flood season. In fact, I'd guess Hwy 75 has probably lost more days to flooding over the past 10 years than it has due to snowstorms.

A blizzard closure can often be measured in hours...a flood closure can last days or weeks (though there's generally a detour, albeit

a lengthy one.)


----------



## Munchkinguy (Sep 10, 2011)

You can shuttle from Winnipeg to Grand Forks for $145 CAD on Ridebooker.com. And the shuttle gets to Grand Forks at 9:30 PM. The Empire Builder departs from Grand Forks at 12:57 AM, so it's only a 3.5 hour wait.


----------



## Kit (Nov 1, 2011)

I travel Amtrak to GFK and also need to get to Winnipeg. I found Red, White and Blue taxi to be an excellent choice. I overnight in Grand Forks and leave the next morning to catch the train from Winnipeg. Taxi charges me about $170 and I give a $50 tip. Red,White and Blue Taxi has been SUPERB in picking me up and getting me across the border. I can't say enough about them - I also make a reservation for them to get me at the train station and bring me to my hotel. They have great drivers and great service.... just another suggestion until someone runs a bus....


----------



## fairviewroad (Nov 2, 2011)

Munchkinguy said:


> You can shuttle from Winnipeg to Grand Forks for $145 CAD on Ridebooker.com. And the shuttle gets to Grand Forks at 9:30 PM. The Empire Builder departs from Grand Forks at 12:57 AM, so it's only a 3.5 hour wait.


Well, that's a service I was previously unaware of. Definitely some plusses and minuses.

On the plus side it looks like they will drop you off/pick you up at the GFK train station.

On the down side...that shuttle that gets you to Grand Forks at 9:30 p.m....well, the train station doesn't open until midnight,

so have fun waiting around in the cold until then...unless you get dropped off somewhere else in town (a 24-hour McDonald's?)

and get a taxi out to the train station later, which adds to the cost and hassle of this transfer. And of course if you want to head

westbound the train doesn't leave until 5 a.m. which really makes this an inconvenient transfer.

Returning to Winnipeg, if you are coming off the #8 you will have about a 5 hour wait, but at least you can stay in the train station,

as unpleasant of a place as that is (NO food or beverages available, but at least it's heated with a bathroom). If you're coming off

the #7, then theoretically you only have a 1 hour wait but given the reliability of the EB this is an iffy proposition. If you miss the shuttle

you get to spend the day in Grand Forks, I guess since the next departure isn't until 6 p.m.

And another HUGE downside to this...this footnote:



> This is a minimum occupancy service. The service operates only when there are at least 4 people confirmed. Decision on whether or not the service operates is made 48 hours before departure. If the service doesn't operate all guests receive a 100% refund.


Depending on where you are coming from, you may already be _en route_ to Grand Forks/Winnipeg by the time your shuttle is canceled (unless you are traveling in

a party of 4 or more, in which case your shuttle trip is guaranteed.)

So this is better than Jefferson in some ways, but it still pales in comparison to what this segment really needs: a dedicated Amtrak Thruway connection.


----------



## Mbguy (Mar 2, 2012)

My thought is tht the best way about this is to find someone from Winnipeg an catch a ride with them, many people from Winnipeg use the airport in Grand Forks or just go down to shop.

That said You mentioned doing this trip every year and in 2012 I'm considering doing the reverse trip (Winnipeg to Seattle) and would consider driving if someone was able to drive my car back.


----------

