# Trans Siberian Railroad



## dan Gossett (Oct 8, 2007)

I am seriously thinking of taking the trip from Moscow to Beijing, and have spend a few days in Ulaanbaatar. Has anyone ever taken a trip like this? It also does not seem easy to get a Russian visa, any tips?

Thanks


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## Anthony (Oct 8, 2007)

I haven't taken that trip yet, although it's on my list for the next couple of years. Apparently the Russian visa isn't too bad - you just need a letter of invitation from your hotel or a travel agency in Russia. Check out www.seat61.com and click on the Trans-Siberian section link. He's got a lot of good info over there.


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## darien-l (Oct 9, 2007)

dan Gossett said:


> It also does not seem easy to get a Russian visa, any tips?


I travel to Russia almost every year, and my favorite way of getting a Russian visa is through Russian travel agencies in NYC (Brighton Beach, to be more precise). They charge about $60 per visa for the service, but it's SO worth it, as it removes all the bureaucracy. All you have to do is bring your passport, and they take care of the rest. They'll snap your photo, ask a few questions for the visa application (they know exactly what "bare minimum" needs to be filled out), take your passport, and then you'll get a visa in the mail in a couple of weeks. The whole process takes maybe 10 minutes. They take care of all the "visa support" BS - it all happens behind the scenes. You don't need to reserve a hotel or anything, and are free to stay anywhere you want. Just make sure you stay at least one night at a major hotel during your first three days in Russia to get your visa registered. So if you live near a major city with a Russian neighborhood, I suggest you head to one of their travel agencies to get your visa, as they're likely to know all the ins and outs.

On a side note, I recently got a visa to Belarus through the "proper channels" - making a hotel reservation through a Belarussian travel agency, getting them to send me visa support, then forwarding that visa support to the Belarus Embassy in Washington along with an application, passport, money order, photos, self-address Express Mail envelope, etc. It was something of a pain, and cost more than going through travel agency - BelarusTourService charged $15 for visa support, $30 to get it mailed from Belarus, and then there is the cost of Express Mail to the Belarus Embassy and back - about $30.


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## darien-l (Oct 9, 2007)

dan Gossett said:


> I am seriously thinking of taking the trip from Moscow to Beijing, and have spend a few days in Ulaanbaatar. Has anyone ever taken a trip like this?


My wife and I did the Trans-Siberian a few years back and it was awesome. Click here’s an overview of our trip.

We only went as far as lake Baikal, and we stopped at Novosibirsk, Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk and Irkutsk along the way. All were interesting places and definitely worth a stop of a day or two. Lake Baikal, though, was definitely the highlight of the trip, so if you can only make one stop, let this be the one. We visited the villages of Listvyanka and Bolshiye Koty, and hiked the Cirumbaikal Railway. Our biggest regret was missing the train on the Circumbaikal Railway (my fault – I misread the schedule!) and having to hoof it. There are now several tourist trains running on the line, like the Circumbaikal Express: The website for the company that operates the Circumbaikal Express (and rail buses in the winter) is here, but it’s Russian-only, as far as I can tell.

Another railfan highlight of the trip was spending the night at a hotel on top of Novosibirsk's railway station. Check out this view of the interior of the station - the hotel rooms are on the top floor.We had a great view of the trains below. I stayed up half the night watching the trains coming and going, and listening to the train announcements!


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## Dan (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your pictures, it looks like fun! Im going to try and catch the train in Beijing, stop in Ulaan Bator, and then go up thru Russia. Do people on the train speak any english? How was safety- like should I keep a good eye on my stuff?

And thanks for the visa info, I will look into that


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## darien-l (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan said:


> Do people on the train speak any english?


That really depends on the class of service and type of train you're riding. Here's a quick introduction to Russian long distance trains:

First of all, all LD trains are sleepers. Unlike Amtrak, Russian Railways figured out long ago that on a multi-day journey a bed to sleep in is not a luxury, it's a necessity. There are three classes of sleepers: SV (1st class, 2-person compartment), kupe (2nd class, 4-person compartment), and platskart (3rd class, dorm-style open configuration). On our trip, we rode both SV (click here, here, here, here, and here for examples) and platskart (click here and here for examples). In addition, there are three general categories of LD trains: firmenniy ("brand-name", top of the line, makes few stops, most expensive), skoriy ("express" or "limited", basically a no-frills firmenniy, often a good budget option), and passazhirskiy ("passenger", generally doesn't have first class, slow, makes a lot of stops, usually not a good option to cover large distances).

So to answer your question, the chances of people speaking English on your train vary approximately as follows (from most likely to least likely):

1) SV on a firmenniy train - You will typically encounter a lot of foreigners (up to 50% on some trains), often older travelers who booked the train trip through a travel agency in their home country at an exorbitant price. English seems to be the most common language besides Russian. Service attendants are used to the foreigners and usually speak at least some English.

2) SV on a skoriy train - Still a lot of foreigners, but more of the younger, independent traveler variety.

3) Kupe on a firmenniy train - A popular option for foreigners traveling in large groups.

4) Kupe on a skoriy train

5) Kupe on a passzhirskiy train

6) Platskart on a firmenniy train - Foreigners tend to avoid platskart like a plague, but occasionally some adventurous souls will ride it on a firmenniy train to get the "Russian experience." English generally uncommon.

7) Platskart on a skoriy train

8) Platskart on a passzhirskiy train - Foreigners extremely rare. Chances are, not a single passenger or train worker in your car will speak any English.



> How was safety- like should I keep a good eye on my stuff?


Generally speaking, train safety has improved tremendously since the chaotic mid-90s, partly due to security improvements. If you ride in a compartment, you can lock it from inside before you go to bed, with a locking device that makes the door impossible to open even with a master key. Few people bother nowadays, though, as reports of gassings/robberies in the middle of the night are virtually unheard of now. Train attendants are much better trained to spot any suspicious activity and quickly report it. We generally left all our stuff (except passports and wallets) in our compartment when we went to the dining car, etc., and haven't had any problems.

That said, there are a couple of "gotchas" that you should be aware of. All tickets are sold per seat, not per compartment. So if you buy one first-class ticket, you'll likely find yourself sharing the compartment with a complete stranger. Note that the compartments are not gender-segregated, either. You can buy out the compartment by buying both seats (or 4 seats in a kupe), but it gets to be an expensive proposition if you're traveling by yourself. If you're traveling with a companion, SV is a great option, but I would avoid the kupe, which you'll have to share with strangers. 90% of the time it's fine, you'll make some friends and have a great time, but you run the risk of sharing your compartment with thieves, drunks, or ultranationalist nutcases on occasion. If you're traveling by yourself and are on a budget, platskart is actually a good option, despite anything you may have heard. It tends to be very safe because 1) there is typically little of value to steal, as the people traveling platskart are ordinary Russians, and 2) people generally watch out for each other wouldn't allow an obvious crime to take place.


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## MrFSS (Oct 20, 2007)

Would you ever see a private car hooked on the end of a Russian train as happens on Amtrak?


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## darien-l (Oct 20, 2007)

MrFSS said:


> Would you ever see a private car hooked on the end of a Russian train as happens on Amtrak?


Up until only a few years ago this was virtually unheard of. Now this practice became very popular on the busy Moscow - St. Petersburg line, which has about 20 daily trains in each direction. There are both private cars and private trains nowadays, which supposedly offer "true luxury" and are significantly more expensive than anything offered by Russian Railways. One example of a company that offers both private cars and private trains is the Grand Express.

On the Trans-Siberian, however, private cars and private trains are still a rarity but are becoming increasingly more common as the demand for luxury travel across Siberia goes up.


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## George Harris (Oct 30, 2007)

Not the Trans-Siberian and about 10 years old, but . .

In China the long distance trains tend to be based on the Russian ways, and I was told at that time the classes were likewise based on the Russian system. Since then there have been more luxurious trains and equipment, but I have no first hand experience of it.

At that time, 1996, most long distance trains had either 3 or 4 classes of occomodation which were:

"Soft Sleeper" 4 bunk compartments - as noted, each bunk sold individually so you would be in with strangers. Usually there would only be one of these per train and it was the refuge of the rich. Whether you wanted it or not that is usually the only thing they would sell to a foreignor.

"Hard Sleeper" Open bunks three high mounted crossways to the car with a passageway on one side. Set facing, so effectively an open end 6 bunk compartment. The middle bunk was the best to have because everybody felt free to sit on the bottom bunk in the daytime. Despite the name bedding was provided. The term goes back to a time when no bedding was provided and basically you were given a flat board you could lie down on.

"Soft Coach" relatively nice seats, normally reclining, but maybe facing in pairs with a table between them.

"Hard Coach" cheap, usually non reclining. Not normally found on top trains. The only thing operated on locals.

There were also reclining seat coach trains on shorter distance runs, such as Kowloon to Guangzhou (Canton)

Two (of many) peculiarities in riding a Beijing to Shenzhen express: As we pulled out of a station, the car attendants stood in the doorway holding a salute until the train cleared the platform. When they left the doorway, they locked the door with a key.


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## dan (Oct 31, 2007)

well, im hoping to book the trip here in the next few days and i will be sure to keep you all posted


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## darien-l (Oct 31, 2007)

dan said:


> well, im hoping to book the trip here in the next few days and i will be sure to keep you all posted


By the way, the cheapest way to book tickets is directly at a train station or a Russian Railways ticket office. The second cheapest is through a Russian travel agency such as avantix.ru. They charge a service fee and a delivery charge on top of the normal Russian Railways fare. By far the most expensive way to book tickets is through a travel agency in the United States. I've seen some absolutely insane prices quoted! I suggest going to http://www.avantix.ru/services/booking/railway/ to check actual Russian Railways prices to make sure you're not being ripped off. The website is in Russian, but is simple to operate. Just select your origin and destination from a menu, enter a date, hit enter.

Also note you can only book tickets a maximum of 45 days before departure with Russian Railways. The price does not change whether the ticket is booked 45 days before departure, 3 days before departure, or at the train station an hour before. You do run a risk of the class that you want on the train that you want being sold out, but SV on the Trans-Siberian routes hardly ever gets sold out, in my experience.


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