# Road Trip Discussion



## MARC Rider (Jul 27, 2020)

IndyLions said:


> Public restrooms aren’t suddenly going to go the way of the pay phone...



Just having returned from a road trip, I have to second this statement. 
I think the risks of infections from public restrooms have been overstated by many. Even in the northeastern states where they're taking Covid very seriously, all the highway rest stop public restrooms that I visited (well, with the exception of a rest stop on I-91 in Bradford Vermont) are open for business. Plus at convenience stores, drugstores, etc. I don't even want to think of what the world would be like if public restrooms were all closed.

Wear a mask, wash your hands, and keep your face 6 feet for other people's faces. That's about what's needed.

MODERATOR NOTE: this comment together with the several following it were split from the Viewliner Sleeper Restroom thread in the Amtrak Discussion forum


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## Exvalley (Jul 27, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Even in the northeastern states where they're taking Covid very seriously, all the highway rest stop public restrooms that I visited (well, with the exception of a rest stop on I-91 in Bradford Vermont) are open for business.


Even Vermont is now re-opening it’s rest areas. And what the heck were you doing in Bradford, Vermont heading north? Canada is closed unless you’re a trucker or essential worker!


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## Barb Stout (Jul 28, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Just having returned from a road trip, I have to second this statement.
> I think the risks of infections from public restrooms have been overstated by many. Even in the northeastern states where they're taking Covid very seriously, all the highway rest stop public restrooms that I visited (well, with the exception of a rest stop on I-91 in Bradford Vermont) are open for business. Plus at convenience stores, drugstores, etc. I don't even want to think of what the world would be like if public restrooms were all closed.


We know what the world would be like when public restrooms are closed because of what happened at various national and state parks when they were shut down recently: people pooped and peed everywhere, but particularly right outside the locked restrooms. When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 28, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> Even Vermont is now re-opening it’s rest areas. And what the heck were you doing in Bradford, Vermont heading north? Canada is closed unless you’re a trucker or essential worker!


We were heading for the family cabin-on-the-lake in Rangeley, Maine. Our route takes us up I-91 to St. Johnsbury, then over to Lanacaster, Groveton, and Errol. A lot less traffic than taking I-95 up through Portland.

This was a week ago. The rest area was open, but the building with the toilets was closed. They had Port-a-potties that were in unspeakable condition. On our return trip, this past Sunday, the southbound rest area in Hartford was open, though you had to enter and leave pretty quickly, and there was pretty much no hanging around to get tourist information. (They had a few maps and brochures on a rack outside.)


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## Exvalley (Jul 28, 2020)

I see that the Bradford rest area is not on the list of ones that have reopened. Pro tip: Get off at the next exit and use the restroom at P&H Truck Stop.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 28, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> We know what the world would be like when public restrooms are closed because of what happened at various national and state parks when they were shut down recently: people pooped and peed everywhere, but particularly right outside the locked restrooms. When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.


Oh, yes, I roll my eyes a little at this. I've seen the closed toilets in our local parks, but so far, I haven't noticed any foul or disgusting conditions. On the other hand, ever since the Heat Dome has descended on us, I haven't gone outdoors as much as I did earlier in the spring.

I would think if the parks are open, then the authorities need to provide toilet facilities. In some of our local parks, they closed the restrooms and put out port-a-potties. I'm not sure if this is actually lowers any sort of risk or not. I would have liked to have attended the staff meetings where the park agencies made the decision to close the toilets. I'm not sure what their justification was.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 29, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Oh, yes, I roll my eyes a little at this. I've seen the closed toilets in our local parks, but so far, I haven't noticed any foul or disgusting conditions. On the other hand, ever since the Heat Dome has descended on us, I haven't gone outdoors as much as I did earlier in the spring.
> 
> I would think if the parks are open, then the authorities need to provide toilet facilities. In some of our local parks, they closed the restrooms and put out port-a-potties. I'm not sure if this is actually lowers any sort of risk or not. I would have liked to have attended the staff meetings where the park agencies made the decision to close the toilets. I'm not sure what their justification was.


I believe the parks were NOT open, but people came anyway. The parks are not sealed by a block wall and people have legs. And a lot of parks have highways that run through them.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 29, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> I believe the parks were NOT open, but people came anyway. The parks are not sealed by a block wall and people have legs. And a lot of parks have highways that run through them.


Oh no, our parks are definitely open, it's just the restrooms that are closed, (although a few replaced the real restrooms with Port-a-potties.) Not just state and local parks, even Catoctin National Park is open, with closed restrooms, and if they wanted to close that, they could have easily closed the park roads to traffic. Of course, in the more remote backcountry, people can still use the woods, like they always do, practicing proper backcountry sanitation practices.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 29, 2020)

I recently had to take a bio break out on the open road and considered the threat level as I pulled into a rest area. Here in TX lots of people don't take masks or self-reporting seriously so that's a concern, but our rest areas generally have plenty of ventilation so I figured it was probably workable so long as I kept my wits about me. This particular location was under construction but the workers were in another area and the only other visitor was leaving as I was arriving. In the end I saw no issues and everything worked out fine. If it was closed then I guess I would have had to come up something a bit less than ideal.


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## jiml (Jul 29, 2020)

I guess it varies by jurisdiction, but restrooms here seem to have been an afterthought in re-opening. We have yet to "dine-in" at a restaurant since that became an option a few weeks ago, but most take-out places still have their restrooms reserved for staff and essential workers. That was the case in KFC yesterday and the McD near here has porta-potties in the parking lot for the general public.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 29, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> I would think if the parks are open, then the authorities need to provide toilet facilities. In some of our local parks, they closed the restrooms and put out port-a-potties. I'm not sure if this is actually lowers any sort of risk or not. I would have liked to have attended the staff meetings where the park agencies made the decision to close the toilets. I'm not sure what their justification was.


Delaware had closed the state parks bathrooms and my county had removed the port-a-johns in the county parks for a while, but they've been back for a few weeks. The small city near me, where I go for my walk next to the NEC tracks, kept their port-a-johns open at the city parks.

I made lots of visits to Wawa (convenience store/gas station) during those weeks the park bathrooms were closed or missing when I went out for my daily walks.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 29, 2020)

Austin and Texas have pretty much followed the same pattern as Delaware, plus they have Strict Limits on the Number of people than can use Parks and Trails,with Reservations required to get in.

Park Rangers,LE and Code Compliance people enforce the rules.


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## Barb Stout (Jul 30, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I recently had to take a bio break out on the open road and


I love the term bio break. I chuckled for about 20 seconds. When I was young and our family traveled in the Dakotas in the '60s and '70s, we took our bio breaks in the corn fields. Cover, relief, and fertilizer all at the same time.


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## gwolfdog (Jul 30, 2020)

I also love this term. Is this more PC? When you're too late it has to be Bio-Hazard?


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## John Santos (Aug 1, 2020)

gwolfdog said:


> I also love this term. Is this more PC? When you're too late it has to be Bio-Hazard?


I have often heard this term used while listening in on space walks on the ISS and the Hubble repair space shuttle missions.


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## tgstubbs1 (Aug 1, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I recently had to take a bio break out on the open road and considered the threat level as I pulled into a rest area. Here in TX lots of people don't take masks or self-reporting seriously so that's a concern, but our rest areas generally have plenty of ventilation so I figured it was probably workable so long as I kept my wits about me. This particular location was under construction but the workers were in another area and the only other visitor was leaving as I was arriving. In the end I saw no issues and everything worked out fine. If it was closed then I guess I would have had to come up something a bit less than ideal.


It's a good thing about the ventilation. It's looking like that might be the most important issue because of transmission by aerosol. Getting corona-virus from a toilet seat seems pretty unlikely to me. 
There have been a number of cases when all the standard precautions were taken ( hand washing, mask, 6 ft separation) didn't prevent the spread. Someone was spewing aerosol virus and the surgical type mask didn 't filter effectively enough.


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## Asher (Aug 2, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> I love the term bio break. I chuckled for about 20 seconds. When I was young and our family traveled in the Dakotas in the '60s and '70s, we took our bio breaks in the corn fields. Cover, relief, and fertilizer all at the same time.


I'm glad you left out TP


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 2, 2020)

tgstubbs1 said:


> It's a good thing about the ventilation. It's looking like that might be the most important issue because of transmission by aerosol. Getting corona-virus from a toilet seat seems pretty unlikely to me.
> There have been a number of cases when all the standard precautions were taken ( hand washing, mask, 6 ft separation) didn't prevent the spread. Someone was spewing aerosol virus and the surgical type mask didn 't filter effectively enough.


Our wearing of masks is to keep our aerosol from reaching others, not to keep an unmasked person's aerosol from reaching us. Though it's better than not have a mask if near an anti-masker. I will be wearing a mask with a filter when I go to Baltimore on Wednesday to protect others and myself. Otherwise I just wear neck gaiters or non-filtered cloth masks.


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## jiml (Aug 2, 2020)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Our wearing of masks is to keep our aerosol from reaching others, not to keep an unmasked person's aerosol from reaching us.


This fact gets lost to people on both sides of the mask argument.


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## Barb Stout (Aug 2, 2020)

anumberone said:


> I'm glad you left out TP


Hmm, good point. I don't remember what we used, but quite possibly the corn "leaves".


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## Asher (Aug 2, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> Hmm, good point. I don't remember what we used, but quite possibly the corn "leaves".


You're a good sport


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 14, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> The biggest problem is the fact that I have meetings all day on Monday and Tuesday in Chicago. This means that I have to take the Friday Lake Shore Limited to Chicago. My employer doesn't really monitor my time off, but I am not comfortable being out on Friday as a travel day (for a Monday meeting) since I am taking three days off the following week to visit New Orleans. I'm prefer not to be out of the office for more than one week without a better reason. It's a self-imposed rule, but my employer is gracious enough to give me carte blanche for days off and I would rather not make them rethink that.
> 
> The other choice is that I scrap my meetings in Chicago and do them remotely another time. That would allow me to take the Lake Shore Limited on Sunday and connect to the CONO on Monday, putting me into New Orleans on Tuesday. It would give me an extra day in New Orleans, which isn't a bad thing - but it would also mean that I would be taking the whole week off of work since I would no longer be conducting business on Monday and Tuesday.
> 
> I think that I will just sit tight right now and pray that Congress comes through.


Taking the train means taking a risk. That's just not right. Most reliable transportation? Your car. 

My most reliable transportation asset is an old Camry... I keep the engine tuned and the tires are always the best money can buy. The door locks and air conditioning systems don't work... but it gets me to where I need to go. With the advent of Amtrak's decline and the pandemic and my passion for travel... the spector of a car trip motivates me to keep dreaming.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 15, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> You might not want to come to the Southwest where Daily Temps are running 100-125!!!


Hope you are doing ok in all the heat... I wouldn't think of traveling when it gets this hot... Do whatever is necessary to keep the air conditioning in your home running ok. Right now I am not even considering a car trip. I used to live in St. Louis years ago where there were reports of deaths due to the heat... and I'm sure this summer with covid and global warming it is worse. The lines at world famous Ted Drews Ice Cream where stretched around the block. Stay home, stay cool, and stay safe!


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 15, 2020)

Qapla said:


> I would much rather ride relaxed on the train ... that's why the service reductions and lack of service is so heartbreaking


Feel the exact same as you. 

I will be turning 73 and want to do what I can for as long as possible. What I like about car trips is the complete freedom to wander... because roads go almost everywhere. I drive slow and don't go far in a day... enjoying stopping at parks and scenic views along the way... taking out a folding chair and lingering. While riding I have my tape deck and play tapes that have recorded personal memories in the music.

Prefer mom and pop strip motels where you get out of the car and go into your room. Put that chair out at the door and sip a drink... and make friends with other travelers. Food from grocery stores and occasional fast food places. 

Of course the disadvantage is... as you said... you're at the wheel and can't just sit back and relax. The two types of travel have always been a tug-o-war as to what type of freedom and spontaneous traveling adventure.


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## railiner (Aug 15, 2020)

I'm older now (72), but still love road trips. I used to drive professionally, so marathon drives are no problem...
Now I 'commute' occasionally between my Florida home and my Queens apartment. I am researching purchasing a motor home now, as it looks like train travel and cruises may be years away...


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 15, 2020)

railiner said:


> I'm older now (72), but still love road trips. I used to drive professionally, so marathon drives are no problem...
> Now I 'commute' occasionally between my Florida home and my Queens apartment. I am researching purchasing a motor home now, as it looks like train travel and cruises may be years away...


It's always been a dream of mine to own a motor home. I go back and forth with the pros and cons. You do have complete freedom to go just about anywhere... including off the trail and 'boon-dock.' VS the car trip where one needs to find lodging for the night. And there are sometimes issues with noisy neighbors, uncleaned rooms, etc. Whereas with your own home on wheels it's all set to go the way you want it. Just go back there and you're 'home.'

Motor homes are expensive, and require more gas, repair, set up and take down... insurance, maintenance, storage, etc. I'm 72 also... and would like to know more about your thoughts regarding a motor home. 

BTW... between FLA and NYC can be a beautiful drive with detours to and through the Appalachian Mts. Also very historic. Also your home on wheels is freedom from pandemic concerns. That is a big edge in favor of mobile home consideration.

Because everyone else feels the same way, pricing and availability are effected. Wishing you the best on your travel plans!


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## Qapla (Aug 15, 2020)

Something to keep in mind with motorhomes 

Some of them have "slide outs" to give you more room. They are nice while stopped, as long as you have time and weather to set them up. However, some of them make using the RV with them pulled in rather difficult while traveling. Some of the RV's with slide outs are virtually unusable with them retracted.


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## railiner (Aug 15, 2020)

While I would love to own a luxury Prevost 45 footer, since I drove them for a living at one time, they are out of my league, financially. I could buy an old one, but the cost of maintenance and fuel would also be very high.
My use of an RV would be more for comfortable travel, rather than camping out for extended periods, so I am leaning towards a Class B, or B+. Some of the Sprinter's supposedly yield close to 20 mpg, which would be great. I would not consider a slide-out, since the possibility of trouble with retracting them, is not something I would want to deal with. Not to mention possible leaks or other ailments.


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## Alice (Aug 16, 2020)

I still like road trips, especially since a long distance train is not that much fun in a wheelchair. A couple of years ago I bought a very small trailer (no commode, which isn't any worse than road trips with just the car). Very easy to pull (with minivan) and back, can park in many lots, fits in underground garages and drive-throughs. I no longer have to set up a tent or move everything so I can unfold the bed in the car. I chose one sized so my car and trailer will fit in most BLM camp sites with space all around.

I have a few friends who upgraded from trailers like mine to Sprinters and similar and they absolutely love them, but miss some of the limits on where they can go. One woman in particular didn't think enough about her electrical system, so she cannot camp without hookups for more than a few days. More battery capacity and solar are in her future when her budget works out right. She got a composting toilet that she really loves, no need to deal with a black water tank. She got good insulation but no heater, and now is deciding between sticking to parks where she can plug in and use a 110v space heater, or getting an expensive propane heater, or just starting the car for a few minutes for heat and AC. That last would be easier with a remote starter, which she was looking to see if she can get aftermarket last time I camped with her. I guess my points are (1) research first, (2) spec well. If you are handy, a DIY conversions could be a good choice.

I went to a number of RV shows before deciding what I wanted, then rented one for a 10 day test drive including all driving and camping conditions I might do. After I purchased, I went to a gathering with around 130 or so trailers like mine, but I should have gone first. Although maybe not, one very beautiful and well-appointed wood one was for sale cheap; I have no business owning wood because I camp all year round, no winter downtime when I could spiff up its varnish.


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## me_little_me (Aug 16, 2020)

We had an RV for nearly 10 years that we bought used. When you add in the cost of operation and the depreciation, we could have stayed in a LOT of nice hotels for a LOT of years and, as my wife says, could have avoided all the cooking and cleaning while on VACATION!
The worst thing is that we used it when we should have left it home because "we need to get our money's worth out of it".


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 16, 2020)

railiner said:


> While I would love to own a luxury Prevost 45 footer, since I drove them for a living at one time, they are out of my league, financially. I could buy an old one, but the cost of maintenance and fuel would also be very high.
> My use of an RV would be more for comfortable travel, rather than camping out for extended periods, so I am leaning towards a Class B, or B+. Some of the Sprinter's supposedly yield close to 20 mpg, which would be great. I would not consider a slide-out, since the possibility of trouble with retracting them, is not something I would want to deal with. Not to mention possible leaks or other ailments.


Hey there Railiner... if I may ask, did you drive for motorcoach tours by any chance??? I used to be a tour director for AAA Motorcoach Tours out of St. Louis in my younger and more 'eager' days. AAA would hire those beautiful Prevost motorcoaches and it was a thrill not only to ride in them... but to be a tour director... although it was hard work for low pay and the day lasted endlessly. As a tour director my pay was meager and reliant upon tips which were also meager... but I was a public school teacher at the time and it was a fun way to spend my summers. I also grew to appreciate what a wonderful culture is the backbone of America. So here's a toast for 'rolling wheels' whether they be on the highway or the rails!


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## railiner (Aug 17, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> Hey there Railiner... if I may ask, did you drive for motorcoach tours by any chance??? I used to be a tour director for AAA Motorcoach Tours out of St. Louis in my younger and more 'eager' days. AAA would hire those beautiful Prevost motorcoaches and it was a thrill not only to ride in them... but to be a tour director... although it was hard work for low pay and the day lasted endlessly. As a tour director my pay was meager and reliant upon tips which were also meager... but I was a public school teacher at the time and it was a fun way to spend my summers. I also grew to appreciate what a wonderful culture is the backbone of America. So here's a toast for 'rolling wheels' whether they be on the highway or the rails!


I drove them on line runs for Adirondack Trailways. They were great to drive, but the LeMirage XL-II model's were even better, from a driver's standpoint. Especially in strong crosswinds....


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 17, 2020)

railiner said:


> I drove them on line runs for Adirondack Trailways. They were great to drive, but the LeMirage XL-II model's were even better, from a driver's standpoint. Especially in strong crosswinds....


If I remember, they were all beautiful coaches... smooth ride! Upstate New York has some Beautiful scenery!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 17, 2020)

gwolfdog said:


> I also love this term. Is this more PC? When you're too late it has to be Bio-Hazard?





John Santos said:


> I have often heard this term used while listening in on space walks on the ISS and the Hubble repair space shuttle missions.


I've been working in offices for many years and it grew on me over time. If you're in the company of friends nobody cares what terms anyone uses but I tend to lean on euphemisms when talking about bodily functions to strangers, coworkers, acquaintances, etc. I just never saw the point of going into more detail and this has served me well in the era of collateral career damage. Better safe than sloppy.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 22, 2020)

jiml said:


> I guess it varies by jurisdiction, but restrooms here seem to have been an afterthought in re-opening. We have yet to "dine-in" at a restaurant since that became an option a few weeks ago, but most take-out places still have their restrooms reserved for staff and essential workers. That was the case in KFC yesterday and the McD near here has porta-potties in the parking lot for the general public.


The McDonald's in Lancaster, NH had restrooms open to the public. In fact, in my quadrant of the country, I haven't seen a fast-food or convenience store that's open to the public that doesn't have restrooms open.

Also over the past week I was a two Maryland state parks in which the restrooms/changing rooms were open as usual. So I don't know why the restroom at the other park is closed.


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