# Caledonian Sleeper Mark 5's



## CSXfoamer1997 (Jul 29, 2016)

The Caledonian Sleeper is ordering 75 British Rail Mk 5 coaches with 5 different types. 11 of them being spares. However, what are the 5 types of cars CS is ordering?

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/caf-signs-caledonian-sleeper-coach-contract.html


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 29, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> The Caledonian Sleeper is ordering 75 British Rail Mk 5 coaches with 5 different types. 11 of them being spares. However, what are the 5 types of cars CS is ordering?


A paragraph from your link:

"The order covers four 16-coach rakes each comprising five types of coach, plus 11 spare vehicles. Future operator Serco says the cars will provide a mixture of travel options including first class en-suite berths, standard berths, cradle seats for standard class guests and pod flat-beds for affordable comfort. There will also be a luxurious new brasserie club car, and improved accessibility. Edinburgh-based designer Ian Smith is responsible for creating a contemporary style for the coaches."

Sorry gave up on my British Railroad magazine subscription. However your link states 4 type of overnight spaces and one type of lounge. So maybe...


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 29, 2016)

"Specifically, the new fleet features First and Second Class Cars, Lounge Car and Sleeper Cars. First Class Cars are provided with aircraft type seats for high passenger comfort. In addition, these new cars feature passenger accessibility enhancements."

From the CAF website. No pictures.

http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=277


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## ScouseAndy (Jul 30, 2016)

British Rail mark 5 coaches?

1) British Rail ceased to exist in the 90's

2)BR Mark 5 coaches where designed to be ran in conjunction with the Class 93 on the West Coast Main line between London and Scotland, neither projects got off the ground following the axe of the WCML improvements in 1991.

Rail Magazine decided to reuse this name for the Serco ordered coaches but this is certainly not their official designation.

On a side note these are certainly not the 1st UK sleeper cars built since the Mark 3's in the 1980's as some magazines/news outlets have reported. As in the 1990's British Rail ordered around 140 "nightstar" sleeper coaches based on the BR Mark 4 coaches of which I think 50 where completed. These never ran in revenue service as the trains these were expected to run was axed before a wheel was turned when it was decided there was no market for sleeper services between the UK and main land Europe and most where sold to Via rail at a massive lost to UK tax payers.


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## PerRock (Jul 30, 2016)

Here are some photos:

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2016/06/29/first-glimpse-of-brand-new-scottish-mk-5-sleeper-coaches

peter


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 30, 2016)

> On a side note these are certainly not the 1st UK sleeper cars built since the Mark 3's in the 1980's as some magazines/news outlets have reported. As in the 1990's British Rail ordered around 140 "nightstar" sleeper coaches based on the BR Mark 4 coaches of which I think 50 where completed. These never ran in revenue service as the trains these were expected to run was axed before a wheel was turned when it was decided there was no market for sleeper services between the UK and main land Europe and most where sold to Via rail at a massive lost to UK tax payers.


In service today on VIA's _OCEAN_ between Montreal and Halifax







Note the BR Logo on the Ocean's Lounge Car Microwave


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Jul 30, 2016)

NS VIA Fan said:


> > On a side note these are certainly not the 1st UK sleeper cars built since the Mark 3's in the 1980's as some magazines/news outlets have reported. As in the 1990's British Rail ordered around 140 "nightstar" sleeper coaches based on the BR Mark 4 coaches of which I think 50 where completed. These never ran in revenue service as the trains these were expected to run was axed before a wheel was turned when it was decided there was no market for sleeper services between the UK and main land Europe and most where sold to Via rail at a massive lost to UK tax payers.
> 
> 
> In service today on VIA's _OCEAN_ between Montreal and Halifax
> ...


I thought those were originally Mk4's, not 5's.


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## PerRock (Jul 30, 2016)

No one is saying that they aren't. For (regular) British-used sleeping cars; there are the now-VIA Mark 4 cars that are pictured and were for the Nightstar service. Caledonia & Night Riviera both currently use Mark 3 sleepers. Then there are a handful of 'excursion' sleeper trains, like the luxurious Flying Scotsman.

Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western) is in the process of rebranding & refurbishing themselves. The Man in Seat 61 has a nice collection of information & photos of the service; although the pictures are of the old livery.

http://www.seat61.com/Cornwall-sleeper.htm

Serco's Caledonia sleeper still currently uses Mark 3s, Their cars were recently repainted, but the interiors were left in First Group's style as their getting new cars. again from The Man in Seat 61: http://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm

peter


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Jul 31, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> CSXfoamer1997 said:
> 
> 
> > The Caledonian Sleeper is ordering 75 British Rail Mk 5 coaches with 5 different types. 11 of them being spares. However, what are the 5 types of cars CS is ordering?
> ...


Oops! I must've missed that part.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 31, 2016)

No I don't think you miss any point. It seem at the time a idea. However it now look like two type of coaches, one lounge, one class of sleepers. Still miss one type of car.

Suprise there not more info out there.


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## CCC1007 (Jul 31, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> No I don't think you miss any point. It seem at the time a idea. However it now look like two type of coaches, one lounge, one class of sleepers. Still miss one type of car.
> 
> Suprise there not more info out there.


Could it be the service car that some other orders have included? It would basically be a baggage and supply car...


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## PerRock (Jul 31, 2016)

Edit: Misread a post.


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## jamesontheroad (Aug 1, 2016)

There has been an additional order not mentioned in this thread. There will be thirteen rakes of five 'mark 5' carriages, ordered for trans-Pennine routes between Liverpool and Newcastle. (Link) They'll be hauled by Class 68 locomotives.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 8, 2016)

From the Man in seat 61.

"It's not 5 car types, it's 4 accommodation types plus brasserie car.

Deluxe sleepers with 1/2 berths and shower/toilet.

Standard sleepers with washbasin

Individual flat-bed pod seats

Recling seats

Brasserie car.

I don't yet know how these 4 types will be spread over cars. Obviously, you don't want to have to have 5 spare cars, one of each type, where one or two with mixed accommodations types will do, and only 2 cars go through London-Ft William so somehow need 3 berth types in 2 cars."

Seem that the type and amount of cars are classified Top Secret.

CAF should get them build in next 30 years or so. Then we can travel to Scotland and see for ourself. 

www.seat61.com

Add web site.


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