# P42DC Conversion to AC?



## CSXfoamer1997 (May 8, 2016)

Before Amtrak goes to replacing the P42DC's, wouldn't any of you think that they should be converted to P42AC's? From what I hear, AC locos are more powerful than DC locos, and AC motors require less maintenance than DC motors. And in theory, it could probably improve tractive effort and acceleration.


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## jis (May 8, 2016)

By your own admission you like to do research, right? Here is a small project for you to undertake.... Go and research how much it costs to convert the entire electrical transmission packs and motors and then come back with a suggestion on where that money should be found. 

Remember, you would not want to covnert just a few, since it just creates yet another subclass and adds to maintenance and inventory cost. So find the amount needed for the entire lot. The ask yourself, would that money be better spent in funding acquisition of a new locomotive batch rather than creating a small batch of possibly dead end locomotives, specially in a situation where new locomotives are available off the shelf, whereas this whole conversion thing has to be funded for design and execution for a limited number of units..


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## CSXfoamer1997 (May 8, 2016)

jis said:


> By your own admission you like to do research, right? Here is a small project for you to undertake.... Go and research how much it costs to convert the entire electrical transmission packs and motors and then come back with a suggestion on where that money should be found.
> 
> Remember, you would not want to covnert just a few, since it just creates yet another subclass and adds to maintenance and inventory cost. So find the amount needed for the entire lot. The ask yourself, would that money be better spent in funding acquisition of a new locomotive batch rather than creating a small batch of possibly dead end locomotives, specially in a situation where new locomotives are available off the shelf, whereas this whole conversion thing has to be funded for design and execution for a limited number of units..


Also, aside from that, I did also hear from other railfans it's cheaper to rebuild than to buy new locos.


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## CCC1007 (May 8, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > By your own admission you like to do research, right? Here is a small project for you to undertake.... Go and research how much it costs to convert the entire electrical transmission packs and motors and then come back with a suggestion on where that money should be found.
> ...


Only in some cases, such as a minor upgrade to some subsystems, such as from -2 to -3 electronics. The MRL rebuilds I told you about earlier were aimed at reliability, and they didn't gut the entire electrical system and start again.


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## west point (May 8, 2016)

The frame wear on the locos will limit the P-42s and -40s. A important problem that has to be considered are the loco trucks. Converting to AC might mean a new truck that has not even been designed much less built. If you read the Amtrak monthly performance reports, mechanical report, you will find that Amtrak cannot get enough trucks and reports a continuing shortage. It appears that acquiring two axel trucks is very difficult.


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## PerRock (May 8, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > By your own admission you like to do research, right? Here is a small project for you to undertake.... Go and research how much it costs to convert the entire electrical transmission packs and motors and then come back with a suggestion on where that money should be found.
> ...


I also wouldn't put too much faith in what "railfans" tell you. If you want to know the ins & outs of technical stuff, talk to the people who's job it is to know such stuff.

peter


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## Acela150 (May 8, 2016)

I can tell you that NS is in process of converting some DC units to AC. From what I understand it's a very costly project. But it is extending lives of some units. IINM, they are using AC Gevo components for the project. Not entirely sure on this.. I honestly think that the P42 units are beyond the point being able to undergo a conversion. I can say that AC units do have a better job then DC units. On the oil trains that I would be called for, they would use primarily 2 ES44AC units, 2 SD70ACe, or 1 of each in most cases. If neither of those were on the head end it would be led by Three DC units. Normally Dash 9 junk. I would gladly take an AC unit over anything DC. Many crews I've worked with, being Locomotive Engineer Trainees, Engineers, and even Conductor Trainees prefer the AC units. I would gladly take a SD70ACe over a Gevo cause of the cab layout.


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## CSXfoamer1997 (May 8, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> I can tell you that NS is in process of converting some DC units to AC. From what I understand it's a very costly project. But it is extending lives of some units. IINM, they are using AC Gevo components for the project. Not entirely sure on this.. I honestly think that the P42 units are beyond the point being able to undergo a conversion. I can say that AC units do have a better job then DC units. On the oil trains that I would be called for, they would use primarily 2 ES44AC units, 2 SD70ACe, or 1 of each in most cases. If neither of those were on the head end it would be led by Three DC units. Normally Dash 9 junk. I would gladly take an AC unit over anything DC. Many crews I've worked with, being Locomotive Engineer Trainees, Engineers, and even Conductor Trainees prefer the AC units. I would gladly take a SD70ACe over a Gevo cause of the cab layout.


Yeah. Compare 3 ES40DC's with 3 ES44AC's, or AH's for that matter, with a 150-car mixed freight.


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## Acela150 (May 8, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that NS is in process of converting some DC units to AC. From what I understand it's a very costly project. But it is extending lives of some units. IINM, they are using AC Gevo components for the project. Not entirely sure on this.. I honestly think that the P42 units are beyond the point being able to undergo a conversion. I can say that AC units do have a better job then DC units. On the oil trains that I would be called for, they would use primarily 2 ES44AC units, 2 SD70ACe, or 1 of each in most cases. If neither of those were on the head end it would be led by Three DC units. Normally Dash 9 junk. I would gladly take an AC unit over anything DC. Many crews I've worked with, being Locomotive Engineer Trainees, Engineers, and even Conductor Trainees prefer the AC units. I would gladly take a SD70ACe over a Gevo cause of the cab layout.
> ...


Well to give you an idea on the difference between AC's and DC's with oil trains.. The oil trains are routinely 110-120 cars in length and total tonnage comes to around 10,000 tons plus. It takes 3 DC units on these trains and 2 AC units. NS doesn't have the ES44AH what ever the difference is.. That's a Crash Smash eXplode unit.. We have the ES44AC and soon we will be getting 47 ET44AC's.. Or Tier 4 AC units. Kinda hope I can get a ride on one before things start over for me..


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## CSXfoamer1997 (May 9, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> CSXfoamer1997 said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


AH's are a little bit of the same as the AC units, only heavier. The H stands for heavy. UP also has C45AH's and ET44AH's.

The ES44AC's normally weigh 415,000 lbs, whereas the ES44AH's weigh 432,000 lbs.


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