# Canadian berths



## Neil_M

In the VIA rail blurb, I assume that a berth for 1 is much the same as a roomette? Whats the deal with the some of the berths you have to step up to? How does that work, as I assume the sleepers are not double deckers?


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## Bob Dylan

Neil_M said:


> In the VIA rail blurb, I assume that a berth for 1 is much the same as a roomette? Whats the deal with the some of the berths you have to step up to? How does that work, as I assume the sleepers are not double deckers?


Correct me if Im wrong but I believe you are refering to a section with the old upper and lower berths that serve as facing seats during the day and are made up with the lower folded down like a roomette and the upper berth folded down from the cieling! The roomettes and deluxe bedrooms are more like what we are used to on our Amtrak sleepers! Curtains are used to section off the beds hence the use of section instead of roomette! :unsure: Being old Heritage cars they are single level!


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## Neil_M

jimhudson said:


> Neil_M said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the VIA rail blurb, I assume that a berth for 1 is much the same as a roomette? Whats the deal with the some of the berths you have to step up to? How does that work, as I assume the sleepers are not double deckers?
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if Im wrong but I believe you are refering to a section with the old upper and lower berths that serve as facing seats during the day and are made up with the lower folded down like a roomette and the upper berth folded down from the cieling! The roomettes and deluxe bedrooms are more like what we are used to on our Amtrak sleepers! Curtains are used to section off the beds hence the use of section instead of roomette! :unsure: Being old Heritage cars they are single level!
Click to expand...

No I understand the upper and lower berths, in the write up for a cabin for one it says "There are two types of cabins for one:

Upper: requires the passenger to step up into the sleeping compartment, from the main floor of the car

Lower: on the same level as the rest of the sleeping car"

Just trying to visualise how that works.


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## Bill Haithcoat

jimhudson said:


> Neil_M said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the VIA rail blurb, I assume that a berth for 1 is much the same as a roomette? Whats the deal with the some of the berths you have to step up to? How does that work, as I assume the sleepers are not double deckers?
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if Im wrong but I believe you are refering to a section with the old upper and lower berths that serve as facing seats during the day and are made up with the lower folded down like a roomette and the upper berth folded down from the cieling! The roomettes and deluxe bedrooms are more like what we are used to on our Amtrak sleepers! Curtains are used to section off the beds hence the use of section instead of roomette! :unsure: Being old Heritage cars they are single level!
Click to expand...


Jim, you are correct. The sections have no toiletries, so you have to go to a restroom to shave and change clothes,etc. There is a step ladder to get you into the cheaper upper berth.

The sections bed has the distinction of being one of the widest beds on a train precisely because there is nothing else in the space.

Sections kinda sorta went out with the steam engine but not completely. As streamlined diesel powered trains began to be built many were built without sections.The pre-Amtrak roomettes kind of replaced them. But they stayed on some lines mainly for military movements, the government wants to move the service people as economically as possible.


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## MrFSS

If you are talking about sections, this is what they look like on The Canadian. The lower two facing seats become one bed and the upper drops down from the ceiling area. It is the curved looking thing in the upper right of the picture. Each section has a curtain only with no solid wall or door. The person who has paid for the lower has first choice on which of the two seats to have during the daytime.


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## Bill Haithcoat

Neil in re-reading your post very carefully I have begun to suspect you are not talking about sections.

Instead, I think you are talking about duplex roomettes. These are roomettes which are staggered. It is the staggering which causes you to step up into some and floor level for others. I guess they can fit more in this way.

I hope nobody confuses this with slumbercoaches, which the Canadian definately does not have, but also are staggrered at one end of the car.


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## Green Maned Lion

Neil, if you are talking sections,

Imagine a Superliner Roomette, but make the seats full width of the room. Now remove the door and wall to the corridor. You now have a section.


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## Neil_M

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Neil in re-reading your post very carefully I have begun to suspect you are not talking about sections.
> Instead, I think you are talking about duplex roomettes. These are roomettes which are staggered. It is the staggering which causes you to step up into some and floor level for others. I guess they can fit more in this way.
> 
> I hope nobody confuses this with slumbercoaches, which the Canadian definately does not have, but also are staggrered at one end of the car.


Correct Bill, I understand the sections setup, but its the roomettes/cabin for one set up that confuses me, as I cant see how the staggering gives more space. I suppose its obvious if you see it in the flesh.

Its the last few lines in this description that I can't work out how it works.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/cabin-one

Are there any online plans of the VR sleepers anywhere? (not the ones on the VR website)


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## Bill Haithcoat

Neil_M said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neil in re-reading your post very carefully I have begun to suspect you are not talking about sections.
> Instead, I think you are talking about duplex roomettes. These are roomettes which are staggered. It is the staggering which causes you to step up into some and floor level for others. I guess they can fit more in this way.
> 
> I hope nobody confuses this with slumbercoaches, which the Canadian definately does not have, but also are staggrered at one end of the car.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct Bill, I understand the sections setup, but its the roomettes/cabin for one set up that confuses me, as I cant see how the staggering gives more space. I suppose its obvious if you see it in the flesh.
> 
> Its the last few lines in this description that I can't work out how it works.
> 
> http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/cabin-one
> 
> Are there any online plans of the VR sleepers anywhere? (not the ones on the VR website)
Click to expand...


Neil, we have hit common ground and you are exactly correct when you say it is obvious if you see it in the flesh. I do not have the words to describe it adequately.

Hopefully someone will step forward with brochures from the past which illustrate duplex roomettes. And maybe I am wrong about it opening up additional space but I think not. Cannot imagine any other reason for it. Anyone who has access to slumbercoach photos can get the same idea for their smaller rooms,they, too, were staggered.

You can look at the Empire Builder on a video in this same section, and it shows a staggered window slumbercoach a few cars back on the train. It is a post about multiple engines from years past.

Googling The Canadian itself, which might show older perhaps preVIA diagrams, or even googling the words duplex roomette might help. Or google slumbercoach, just hoping nobody confuses the two.


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## MrFSS

Here is a not so good picture of the duplex end of a sleeper.

As I understand it, the person who looks out the bottom window, when their bed is made up has a little cave like area under the floor of the person who looks out the top window. They are in two separate distinct rooms that "overlap" each other in the night time configuration. The feet of one person go over/under the head of the other person and vice versa. During the day, there is one seat area about the size of 1/2 of todays roomette. Very small area at night where your feet go into in the little cave area. Very hard to explain, but if you saw one you would understand.


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## Neil_M

MrFSS said:


> Here is a not so good picture of the duplex end of a sleeper.
> As I understand it, the person who looks out the bottom window, when their bed is made up has a little cave like area under the floor of the person who looks out the top window. They are in two separate distinct rooms that "overlap" each other in the night time configuration. The feet of one person go over/under the head of the other person and vice versa. During the day, there is one seat area about the size of 1/2 of todays roomette. Very small area at night where your feet go into in the little cave area. Very hard to explain, but if you saw one you would understand.


Google brings up this thread http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/lofiversio....php/t8117.html includes a photo from some guy called MrFSS and makes it a lot clearer!!

Certainly looks smaller than a Amtrak roomette, was looking at doing a trip on the Canadian next year sometime, maybe a bedroom is the way to go, 3 nights in there might be a bit poor.....


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## MrFSS

Neil_M said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a not so good picture of the duplex end of a sleeper.
> As I understand it, the person who looks out the bottom window, when their bed is made up has a little cave like area under the floor of the person who looks out the top window. They are in two separate distinct rooms that "overlap" each other in the night time configuration. The feet of one person go over/under the head of the other person and vice versa. During the day, there is one seat area about the size of 1/2 of todays roomette. Very small area at night where your feet go into in the little cave area. Very hard to explain, but if you saw one you would understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Google brings up this thread http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/lofiversio....php/t8117.html includes a photo from some guy called MrFSS and makes it a lot clearer!!
> 
> Certainly looks smaller than a Amtrak roomette, was looking at doing a trip on the Canadian next year sometime, maybe a bedroom is the way to go, 3 nights in there might be a bit poor.....
Click to expand...

I had forgotten about that photo I took a number of years ago.

Here it is to include in this thread. Thanks, Neil, for "finding" it.






I think the bed over there on the right pulls out over the comode and chair.


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## Neil_M

MrFSS said:


> I think the bed over there on the right pulls out over the comode and chair.


Hmm, bit hopeless if you have a "need" during the night and the bed is over the pan! :blink:


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## Bill Haithcoat

Neil_M said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the bed over there on the right pulls out over the comode and chair.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, bit hopeless if you have a "need" during the night and the bed is over the pan! :blink:
Click to expand...

I cannot speak for the duplex roomette as I never rode in one.

But I can assure you in a regular pre-Amtrak roomette, the bed was very easy to negotiate at night and in fact we passengers were expected to raise and lower our own bed, not because the attendants were so lazy but because it was so easy to do.

Using the "pan" at night was not such a chore. I speak from lots of experience, though do not neesssarily want to describe those experiences. :lol:

Roomettes had a curtain as well as a door. The curtain was needed to ""protect" your rear end if you needed to open the door to back into the hallway to raise and lower the bed. There was a newer design of roomette called cut-a-way in which the foot side of the bed narrowed and gave some people room to raise and lower the bed without extending into the hall. I am pleased to report that some of my "very own' Southeastern railroads created that design.

Still, for a trip all the way across Canada I strongly recommend the bedroom.

Again not really sure about the duplex roomette bed.


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## Long Train Runnin'

Wow a very informative thread!

I didn't realize there were still sections on the Canadian. Of course regardless of what berth you bought I wouldn't be sitting in my seat! There's a dome car!


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## Bill Haithcoat

Long Train Runnin said:


> Wow a very informative thread!
> I didn't realize there were still sections on the Canadian. Of course regardless of what berth you bought I wouldn't be sitting in my seat! There's a dome car!



Lots of domes!!

It was so neat, my last "Canadian" trip, about 2004. On return the train was thirty cars long (3 of them deadheads). Imagine a thirty car roof to look over as it curves and curves and curves and curves........and curves.

I took a bedroom.

But my first trip, 30 plus years ago, I went out on the Super Continental, which was four nights, and back on the Canadian which was three nights,as I recall. Both ways in a normal standard roomette. But I was a lot younger and somewhat (not a lot) smaller.


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## MrFSS

Great views like this:


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## NS VIA FAN

Neil_M said:


> In the VIA rail blurb, I assume that a berth for 1 is much the same as a roomette? Whats the deal with the some of the berths you have to step up to? How does that work, as I assume the sleepers are not double deckers?


Scroll about half-way through this document and you will find a very good diagram of a Duplex Roomette set up for both daytime and night.

http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html

(PS: A few key words and Google will find just about anything in a split second!)


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## jis

Neil_M said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the bed over there on the right pulls out over the comode and chair.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, bit hopeless if you have a "need" during the night and the bed is over the pan! :blink:
Click to expand...

You have that problem even in the single rooms in the manor cars, which do not overlap like in the Chateau cars. You do have to push the bed up into the wall to get to the commode.


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## DET63

MrFSS said:


> Here is a not so good picture of the duplex end of a sleeper.
> As I understand it, the person who looks out the bottom window, when their bed is made up has a little cave like area under the floor of the person who looks out the top window. They are in two separate distinct rooms that "overlap" each other in the night time configuration. The feet of one person go over/under the head of the other person and vice versa. During the day, there is one seat area about the size of 1/2 of todays roomette. Very small area at night where your feet go into in the little cave area. Very hard to explain, but if you saw one you would understand.


That resembles a Slumbercoach:


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## Bill Haithcoat

DET63 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a not so good picture of the duplex end of a sleeper.
> As I understand it, the person who looks out the bottom window, when their bed is made up has a little cave like area under the floor of the person who looks out the top window. They are in two separate distinct rooms that "overlap" each other in the night time configuration. The feet of one person go over/under the head of the other person and vice versa. During the day, there is one seat area about the size of 1/2 of todays roomette. Very small area at night where your feet go into in the little cave area. Very hard to explain, but if you saw one you would understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That resembles a Slumbercoach:
Click to expand...

Yep DET63 it does resemble a slumbercoach. Check back on post #6 and you will see that I anticipated the the possible confusion. It is interesting the types of rooms which used to exist and the numerous floor plans.

I repeated my hope that nobody would confuse the two in post number nine.


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## DET63

I noticed that on the Slumbercoach, the line formed by bottoms of the upper windows were above the line formed by the bottoms of the lower windows. Also, in the Slumbercoach, the side doors were at the opposite end of the car from the staggered windows, whereas in the other car, the staggered windows were at the same end as the doors. But I don't know how useful such details would be in distinguishing the cars; they might have simply reflected the original purchasers' respective preferences at the time.


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