# "If you try to board a train without a ticket, you will be arrest



## darien-l (Mar 10, 2008)

Thought I'd share this exciting Amtrak experience from the spring of '06 when I was threatened with an arrest by an Amtrak employee:

One day I decided to surprise my wife with a two-day getaway to Old Orchard Beach from Boston. We drove to North Station (because we couldn't figure out where to return the rental car -- long story), and hit absolutely horrendous traffic approaching North Station, where we sat for almost an hour, effectively missing our train. When we finally got to North Station, everyone was funneled towards the parking garage, and the parking attendant wanted to charge us $50 or something to park for the evening. Apparently, there was a big game going on in the Garden that shares the building with North Station. When we refused to pay, the parking attendant got annoyed, but eventually found a way for us to leave the sea of cars. I eventually parked semi-illegally some distance away from the station, left my wife in the car, and went inside.

When I tried retrieving our tickets from a QuikTrak machine it said "Error -- see agent," probably because we missed our train. I went to the ticket window, but it was closed and the agent was nowhere to be found. At that point I just noted the departure time of the next train (the last of the day), and decided to return later.

When we returned to the station several hours later, it was sheer chaos. Apparently, the game had just ended, and the station was filled to the gills with people. The QuikTrak machine gave the same error, and the ticket agent was still nowhere to be found. I finally called Amtrak (I know, I should've done it earlier), and was curtly told that the next train was sold out and that we should go home and return tomorrow morning. This would've meant the loss of a pre-paid hotel room in Old Orchard and half of our vacation, so I was desperate for alternatives. I asked whether I could maybe get onboard and work something out with the train conductor, and this is when the agent said, with utmost seriousness: "Sir, if you try to board that train without a ticket, YOU WILL BE ARRESTED."

That did scare me... for about 5 minutes. Then I thought about it, decided it was BS, got onboard the train, found the conductor, and politely requested if there was any space at all. His reply -- "no problem, I can sell you tickets, as long as you don't mind standing or sitting on the floor until the first stop, where someone is bound to get off." So in the end, it all turned out all right: we just sat on the floor for a bit, which was actually pretty spacious (see photo below), and after about 20 minutes the conductor found us seats.

Anyway, this story got me thinking today -- are there any Amtrak trains where you can't buy a ticket from a conductor? Why on Earth would the Amtrak agent think that getting on a train without a ticket would result in an arrest? Do the conductors generally sell standing-room space on sold out trains, or was our guy just extra-nice to us?

Photo: Sitting on the floor wasn't that bad...


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## AlanB (Mar 10, 2008)

Technically it is considered theft of services to board without a valid ticket. So if the conductor really wanted to cause you trouble, he/she could have you arrested. Most however would probably never go to those lengths, unless you gave them a reason. Like actually trying to hide in the bathroom or walking back and forth so as to avoid sitting and having your ticket collected.

But if you're polite, calm, and seek them out, most are not going to have you arrested. Most as a worst case scenario would just put you off at the next stop or best case scenario will sell you a ticket.

Certainly next time, call Amtrak and have them fix things for you, such that you can get your newly reserved train tickets from the machine.

Now all that said, on a corridor train, the conductor is not allowed to sell you a ticket. That rule was put into place after 9/11 in part to ease the work load on the conductors, in part for security reasons, and probably in part to cut down on the potential for theft by the conductor.

I would say that your conductor was being a bit nicer than he had to, since technically on a sold out train he doesn't have to sell you a ticket.


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## darien-l (Mar 10, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Technically it is considered theft of services to board without a valid ticket.


I didn't know that. Can you provide a reference? Perhaps it's only true for certain trains? I lived in Hayward, CA, for a few years, and that station didn't have a QuikTrak machine or a ticket agent -- I always just boarded Capitol Corridor without a ticket and got one onboard from a conductor. I got used to it and thought it was normal procedure. Was I stealing services and didn't know it?


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## AlanB (Mar 10, 2008)

darien-l said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Technically it is considered theft of services to board without a valid ticket.
> ...


I guess that I should have been clearer, and said "to board without a valid ticket or any intention of obtaining one." In stations where there is no Quik Trak or agent, and the train is unreserved, then it is permissible to board and buy the ticket from the conductor. On reserved trains, you must have a valid reservation number, even if you don't have a ticket before boarding. If you don't have a reservation #, then I would highly recommed speaking first with the conductor before you board a reserved train.


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## darien-l (Mar 10, 2008)

Just looked it up -- you can still board without a ticket and purchase a ticket from a conductor on Capitol Corridor:

http://www.amtrakcapitols.com/aboard_the_train/policies.php

("Adult passengers must have valid photo identification to purchase tickets from conductors.")


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## darien-l (Mar 10, 2008)

AlanB said:


> If you don't have a reservation #, then I would highly recommed speaking first with the conductor before you board a reserved train.


That was basically my intention. The problem is, the conductor doesn't always hang out outside; sometimes you have to step onboard the train to find him. As long as I don't actually DEPART on the train without talking to a conductor first it should be OK, right?


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## AlanB (Mar 10, 2008)

darien-l said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't have a reservation #, then I would highly recommed speaking first with the conductor before you board a reserved train.
> ...


Just make sure that you have enough time before departure to find him/her. Also know that they have to step off or at least look out of a doorway before they can depart the station.

The key is to be proactive, find them and let them know what's going on. Don't wait for them to find you, or worse try to hide from them. The later will be far more likely to get you into trouble and potentially arrested or at least thrown off the train at the next stop.

Although in this day and age where most everyone has a cell phone, there really is no reason to be boarding a reserved train without at least a reservation number.


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## Walt (Mar 10, 2008)

AlanB said:


> I guess that I should have been clearer, and said "to board without a valid ticket or any intention of obtaining one."


I just assumed that is what you meant. When the conductor asks for your ticket, you must either provide it or buy one. It is doing neither, that is illegal, and yes, "theft of services".

Though, I can say, that my experiences are that I can't even get onto the train, without showing the attendant at the car's door my ticket.


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## Sam Damon (Mar 10, 2008)

Of course, this thread brings up my favorite pet peeve about Amtrak: why Amtrak cannot figure out how to give you a coach seat number on a "reserved" train. Rmadison and I have gone around the block a number of times discussing this issue.

Even so, I submit this: If DB can figure it out with a considerably higher number of trains, Amtrak should be able to as well. Better still, let people walk up and buy a ticket.


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## mikerd5522 (Mar 10, 2008)

Actually, it would only be considered a theft of service if you attempted to deceive Amtrak - that is hide in the bathroom or try to allude the conductor (or like that guy who pretended to be a state trooper to get free rides on the Downeaster). If you board the train without a ticket and attempt to buy a ticket, or ask the conductor for assistance, it is not theft of service since you have no intention of deceiving the conductor. The worst they could do is deny you boarding, ask you to leave, or kick you out at the next stop. What the Amtrak agent was probably assuming was that you knew the train was sold out and you couldn't buy a ticket (no seats left) so you would try to sneak on without being noticed - that is theft of service.

I'm not a law school student, but that is my interpretation of the law. Its a slippy slope no matter how you look at it (since you had contacted Amtrak first) but I'm fairly certain that it would be ok as long as you made a valid attempt to pay for the fare.


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## had8ley (Mar 10, 2008)

Brings back some memories; years ago my grandfather was riding the D,L&W (Lackawanna) from Hoboken from a football game in NYC. The wicker seats would flip so you could have seats opposing one another. The gang had a few brewskis before boarding and decided that they didn't have enough fare for all five of them. So one character said, "I'm small, I'll hide in the middle of the seats and you guys just put your coats on top of me. When the conductor came to lift the tickets between Hoboken and Newark he asked,"Why are you giving me five tickets when there are only four of you?" "Oh, the fifth one is for the guy hiding between the seats." My grandfather said the guy wouldn't talk to any of them for a month.


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## darien-l (Mar 10, 2008)

mikerd5522 said:


> What the Amtrak agent was probably assuming was that you knew the train was sold out and you couldn't buy a ticket (no seats left) so you would try to sneak on without being noticed - that is theft of service.


I think that's basically right, I just didn't appreciate being treated like a criminal just because I asked if I could buy tickets from a conductor. I think what the agent should've said was something like "You still have 20 minutes before departure, so you're welcome to find the conductor and see if anything can be done. Just be sure not to depart on the train without a ticket."


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## mikerd5522 (Mar 10, 2008)

darien-l said:


> I think that's basically right, I just didn't appreciate being treated like a criminal just because I asked if I could buy tickets from a conductor. I think what the agent should've said was something like "You still have 20 minutes before departure, so you're welcome to find the conductor and see if anything can be done. Just be sure not to depart on the train without a ticket."


Oh, I agree with you 100% - the agent displayed poor judgement with those remarks. Who trains these people - Walmart? Seriously, I've heard story after story of poor customer service skills by ticket agents at Amtrak, but I think this one may be the top. But, just for example, I guess if its someone's first time on Amtrak, and the train is four hours late, a side of attitude from an Amtrak employee is to be expected and rewarded.

I would have loved to snapped back at the agent, but then again I'd probably be so shocked at what was said and be at a loss for words.

Have you thought of calling customer service and filling a complaint? You never know, they may compensate you for your troubles.


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