# The Ocean: Less Motion?



## The Davy Crockett

I just got back from riding Via's #14 (The eastbound Ocean) and the word from the crew is that more cuts are certainly coming to the Ocean. They don't know what exactly that means - could be reduced service to once or twice a week, or no service. My understanding is that there was a leak to the media that cuts are coming, but just exactly what that means was not disclosed.

If you ever wanted to ride it, I'd suggest doing it before the beginning of July, when the section of track CN wants to abandon could see its last train if no solution is found. There could be a reroute to save the Ocean, there could be a solution to the proposed abandonment, or the Ocean could go the way that the train to Gaspe went, which is to say no more.

Will the Ocean see its 111th Birthday? :unsure:


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## NW cannonball

I'd better get cracking on plans for Halifax - Montreal -- eh?


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## Swadian Hardcore

VIA Rail is just cutting more and more huh? I guess airline competition is one thing, another would be the service quality on the Ocean. That train used to have a full-service diner with meals cooked on board, like the Canadian, but was cut and cut to this point today. The mixed reviews of Ren cars, combined with unreliability, isn't helping either.


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## Bob Dylan

It's almost like Amtrak is trying to follow VIAs lead in cutting service and amenities! Less is Not More!


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## railiner

What a shame if VIA is reduced to nothing more than the Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City corridor services. It sure looks like that is the way they are headed...perhaps the Canadian could be saved somewhat by being taken over companies like the Rocky Mountaineer....

If just the 'corridor' survives, at least it's better than Mexico.....


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## NS VIA Fan

The Davy Crockett said:


> I just got back from riding Via's #14 (The eastbound Ocean) and the word from the crew is that more cuts are certainly coming to the Ocean. They don't know what exactly that means - could be reduced service to once or twice a week, or no service. My understanding is that there was a leak to the media that cuts are coming, but just exactly what that means was not disclosed.


Yes….recently news was spreading that the Tuesday train was being cut the end of May….and yes it was but nobody checked to see what was really happening.

Effective May 28, the Ocean will now depart Halifax on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday instead of Tuesdays. Still three trains a week each way. 

Also in early March, VIA placed several cars in the Halifax Station for a week and a half for crew training. Besides the usual Ren equipment there was also a Chateau Sleeper that is normally in the consist for the summer. VIA has also been hiring in the Halifax area.

[SIZE=11pt]Perhaps I’m just optimistic but[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] I also take solace now that Lisa Raitt, the Federal Transport Minister (and member of Harper’s Cabinet) has said that VIA’s service to the Maritimes would not cease “because they have another route” available.[/SIZE]


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## neroden

railiner said:


> What a shame if VIA is reduced to nothing more than the Windsor-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City corridor services.


And watch out for Windsor services, which were cut back in 2012. That really got my goat.


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## NS VIA Fan

neroden said:


> And watch out for Windsor services, which were cut back in 2012. That really got my goat.


[SIZE=10.5pt]VIA cut one roundtrip but there’s still four trains a day each way plus an additional 3 each way from the mid-point city of London (on two routes). Most of these trains provide a First Class option (called Business Class on VIA but closer to what Amtrak offers as Acela First Class)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Compare this to what Amtrak offers in a very similar market just over the river in Detroit: There’s three trains to Chicago plus an additional one from Battle Creek. [/SIZE]


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## Guest

Sorry to be blunt, but there are many Cassandras on this forum predicting the imminent demise of Via without much grounding in fact or context.

The bigger picture is this: After very reluctantly implementing massive fiscal stimulus in 2008 following the worldwide recession, the fiscally-conservative Canadian Conservative government has been trimming spending across the board to get the books back into the black. This certainly has affected Via Rail , and has resulted in service reductions. But as NS Via Fan has correctly pointed out, the reductions have been fairly marginal. In fact on the Toronto to Windsor run the only change was the elimination of the last train of the evening west of London ON on weekends.

Despite the cutbacks the overall rate of inter city passenger train usage remains higher in Canada than in the US. NS VIA Fan compares VIA's SW Ontario service with Amtrak's Michigan services. Another interesting comparison would be the VIA Corridor services with Amtrak California. There is approximately the same density of train service in both, but the population of the Canadian corridor is a little over half the state of California.

What about the future? The federal government will be in surplus in the coming fiscal year and there will be a federal election in 2015. This is not the environment in which governments cut spending. To be sure, VIA is subject to a reduction in grant for fiscal year 2014-15, along with virtually every other federal program, but given the Supplementary Estimates process this does not necessarily translate into actual spending cuts.


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## railiner

Okay, you have made valid points. And I certainly hope that things stay as they are, or hopefully even improve.

Unfortunately, the history of Via Rail, taken as a whole, is not very encouraging, as far as expansion or retraction goes.....


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## NS VIA Fan

Swadian Hardcore said:


> VIA Rail is just cutting more and more huh? I guess airline competition is one thing, another would be the service quality on the Ocean. That train used to have a full-service diner with meals cooked on board, like the Canadian, but was cut and cut to this point today. The mixed reviews of Ren cars, combined with unreliability, isn't helping either.


The Renaissance Diners were introduced on the Ocean over ten years ago. Since then, Budd Diners have only filled in occasionally when a Ren consist was out of service for modifications usually during the winter, but since the Ocean has gone tri-weekly......that has been even rarer. 

Here’s a brochure for the Renaissance Diners when they first entered service (Easterly Class is now Sleeper Plus Class) Meals are not re-heated Microwave TV dinners! This brochure shows the re-plating of meals that are heated in convection ovens (not microwaves) in the adjacent service-car galleys. (the foil containers shown just wouldn’t make it through a microwave!)

I’ve had many meals in Ren Diners since their introduction and have found the meals just as good or better than a first-class airline meal which would be heated in a similar fashion. Granted.....you won’t get that cooked-from-scratch Bacon & Eggs Breakfast (and I miss that too).....but the hot Lunch and Evening Dinners are fine!

It’s usually the railfans still looking for that classic Budd Stainless Steel Streamliner experience who are giving the Ren Diners the mixed reviews. To most others, the meals are just fine.


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> Perhaps I’m just optimistic but...


For as long as I've been a member on the forum there hasn't been a single VIA cutback or setback you couldn't spin into harmless irrelevance. Bravo.


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## NS VIA Fan

> For as long as I've been a member on the forum there hasn't been a single VIA cutback or setback you couldn't spin into harmless irrelevance. Bravo.


Yes, optimistic when a member of Harpers Cabinet says the service will not cease!.....and the Transport Minister at that!

On another front.....several NDP MPs boarded the Ocean in Halifax today to head back to Ottawa in support of the continuation of the Ocean.(wonder if they regularly travel between the Maritimes and Ottawa on VIA? or are they usually on the 75 minute AC or Porter flight!)

http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/ndp-politicians-taking-train-ride-to-promote-passenger-rail-in-maritimes-1.1741800

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/via-rail-supporters-push-for-maritime-line-to-be-saved-1.2583326


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## neroden

Guest said:


> Sorry to be blunt, but there are many Cassandras on this forum predicting the imminent demise of Via without much grounding in fact or context.
> 
> The bigger picture is this: After very reluctantly implementing massive fiscal stimulus in 2008 following the worldwide recession, the fiscally-conservative Canadian Conservative government has been trimming spending across the board to get the books back into the black. This certainly has affected Via Rail , and has resulted in service reductions. But as NS Via Fan has correctly pointed out, the reductions have been fairly marginal.


Tell it to Niagara Falls or Sarnia, who disagree.



> In fact on the Toronto to Windsor run the only change was the elimination of the last train of the evening west of London ON on weekends.


Which breaks the ability to stay late in town. Span of service matters.


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## neroden

Guest said:


> What about the future? The federal government will be in surplus in the coming fiscal year and there will be a federal election in 2015. This is not the environment in which governments cut spending. To be sure, VIA is subject to a reduction in grant for fiscal year 2014-15, along with virtually every other federal program, but given the Supplementary Estimates process this does not necessarily translate into actual spending cuts.


Hope you're right about that.


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## NS VIA Fan

> Tell it to Niagara Falls or Sarnia, who disagree


.
Niagara Falls? Really? Here it was the passengers who abandoned VIA.....not the other way around! Sure there were some that continued to ride VIA for the convenience of the one seat ride but once GO started the all day (every 1 to 2 hours) bus from NF to Burlington connecting to the GO Train into Toronto (plus the summer weekend train service) most deserted VIA for the more frequent and cheaper GO service.

Same thing happened when GO extended train service to Kitchener, passengers abandoned VIA for the more frequent and cheaper GO service, even if some runs involved a bus to train connection.

And if people were still riding the London-Sarnia portion of that run......perhaps there would still be a train service.


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## Guest

It is very difficult to argue that Niagara Falls is under served by public transportation. There are approximately 25 daily inter city coach departures between Toronto and Niagara Falls on Greyhound Canada and Megabus, a dozen combined train/bus services on Go Transit, dedicated weekend all rail services on Go Transit during the summer tourist season, frequent scheduled shuttles to Pearson Airport on Niagara Airbus and Jewell of Niagara, plus the _Maple Leaf_. Apart from the 80 mile journey being on the low end for intercity rail but and the high end for commuter rail, there is the infrastructure issue of the Welland Canal bridge, which must be raised for shipping traffic reducing reliability on the rail line.

In short it is difficult for rail to compete under current conditons. A few billion dollars might fix the problem, but I suspect there are more pressing places to spend that sort of money.

Sarnia is a different matter, and arguably it is underserved by public transit in general and rail in particular. One reason is that it is an easy drive of less than an hour along a 4 lane divide highway to London.

Since VIA cut back its second daily departure, it has established a through ticketing arrangement with Robert Q, which runs the airport shuttles to and from London. With that change there are several VIA departures to and from Sarnia via London daily, albeit most of which involve a "thruway"-style connection. Not ideal, but certainly no worse than the situation between Lynchburg and Roanoke, for example.

As far as the comment regarding evening service from Toronto to Windsor is concerned, I would agree that a full day span of departures would be desirable. VIA has cutback on evening trains, even while adding frequencies in the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto portion of the corridor. The reason is that ridership is light for evening services. Cutting services from 4 to 3 per day between London and Windsor on Friday and Saturday nights only is consist with this overall practice.


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## railiner

Niagara Falls to Toronto counts would pick up easily, if there were an overnite Amtrak train from New York feeding it or running thru, opposite the Maple Leaf's schedule. Same thing going the other way......

And the same thing at Sarnia....if only Amtrak and VIA would restore the International....


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## NS VIA Fan

railiner said:


> Niagara Falls to Toronto counts would pick up easily, if there were an overnite Amtrak train from New York feeding it or running thru, opposite the Maple Leaf's schedule. Same thing going the other way......


Perhaps they might……but it was this schedules running opposite to the Maple Leaf that passengers recently abandoned VIA for and started riding the more frequent and cheaper GO service.

This was also the schedule that Amtrak’s overnight Niagara Rainbow connected into……a weekend only service for a couple of years in the mid 90’s.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19950611n&item=0010

I rode the Niagara Rainbow a couple of times in ‘94/’95 but it didn’t appeared to be particularly busy.

Perhaps Amtrak could coordinate schedules at the border with the GO summer weekend service now.


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## neroden

Well, it does seem that VIA can't compete well with *much cheaper* alternatives from GO. But this price differential is almost entirely due to differences in subsidy levels -- it's not as if GO is a for-profit operation. This points to biases in subsidization, and if these biases continue, VIA is a goner.

If that means regular GO train services to Niagara Falls, Windsor, Sarnia, etc., then I wouldn't complain -- to some extent, one train operator is as good as another. But if it means buses caught in traffic on the QEW, bleah.

Having driven London to Sarnia, it is fairly uncrowded, though the drive is not what I'd call pleasant in the winter.

Unfortunately, thinking about it, the decision by US and Canadian Customs to delay and obstruct trains -- and to delay pedestrians and cars too -- has probably curtailed the market on all three of the southern Ontario routes (Sarnia, Windsor, and Niagara Falls). All three of these should be through routes crossing the border, based on population patterns and history. But given Customs's treatment of the Maple Leaf, it seems impossible.


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## NS VIA Fan

> Well, it does seem that VIA can't compete well with *much cheaper* alternatives from GO.


At Niagara Falls....probably not. At 82 miles its marginal if it should even be considered inter-city and not commuter territory. Wasnt there a similar dividing line when Amtrak was created?.......and thats why there were still some long-haul Penn Central and Reading passenger trains operating after May 1/71.

Perhaps VIA should be out of the Niagara Falls market altogether with GO handling the operation of the Maple Leaf on the Canadian side.

But London, Windsor and Sarnia are definitely Inter-city and should continue as VIA operated.


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## The Davy Crockett

NS VIA Fan said:


> I’ve had many meals in Ren Diners since their introduction and have found the meals just as good or better than a first-class airline meal which would be heated in a similar fashion. Granted.....you won’t get that cooked-from-scratch Bacon & Eggs Breakfast (and I miss that too).....but the hot Lunch and Evening Dinners are fine!
> 
> It’s usually the railfans still looking for that classic Budd Stainless Steel Streamliner experience who are giving the Ren Diners the mixed reviews. To most others, the meals are just fine.


Having just eaten in one of these diners, here is my take.

First, let me say that I was looking forward to riding on the 'Ren' cars for the first time, and 'sentimentality' for other equipment has nothing to do with my opinions on the 'Rens.'

The dining car was comfortable, nicely appointed, and had real dinnerware. The staff was attentive, friendly and did a great job at all meals.

The food, however, was not that good. In fact, while the coffee was definately better than that served in Amtrak diners, my breakfast was one of the worst meals I've ever had in a dining car.  The omlette was worse than the ones served on Amtrak's Cardinal, and it came with potatoes that were okay, but the portion was tiny. The two pieces of toast that came with the omlette were nothing special, but was the best part of the meal, IMHO.

Lunch was not bad, but then I only had a salad. While it was better than most Amtrak salads, it was small and no roll, bread, or starch of any stripe, came with it.

For dinner, on the advise of a non-dining car crew member, I had the Hungarian chicken instead of the fish. Portions at dinner were small compared to what one gets on Amtrak or The Canadian. The chicken was okay - a somewhat bland boneless, skinless breast that was served on a bed of a paprika rice pilaf that was also blandish, plus there were vegies on the side which tasted better than Amtrak vegies, but that was tough to tell, as the portion was tiny - one small broccoli crown and one small cauliflower crown. An inoffensive, but boring to the tastebuds meal, that satisfied my appetite, but would leave big eaters still hungry. (Maybe that is why it is called 'Hungarian' chicken?  )

The preprepared hot meals use to have the starch, the veggie and the protien heated separately, but now they are heated as one and then the whole hot meal is just 'flipped' onto a plate or salad style bowl together and - poof- a gourmet dinning experience. :unsure:

In fact, one crew member I talked to who does not work in the diner told me they left being a server in the diner and switched to a different job because they were too ashamed to face diners with these premade meals.

##############################################​​The 'Ren' sleepers had issues. My in-room 'couch' had a spring in the seat that was 'sprung,' plus the whole thing felt like it was leaning forward. A fellow passenger asked our SCA if the seats were adjustable due to the feeling that one was sliding off the seat due to its slope and was told that they unfortunately were not, and that more and more seats in the 'Ren' sleepers are doing this as the cars age. With the bed down I had the feeling like I was sliding off towards the floor all night. Due to the unavailability of replacement parts, when things break in these cars it is very difficult and/or expensive to replace things. For example the nice pull down window shade in my room had broken and just like in a number of other rooms it had been replaced with a flimsy cloth curtain held to the window frame with velcro. Also, for some unkown reason when they built these cars they made it so the bathroom light NEVER goes out, which was so annoying at night I finally took the comforter off the upper bunk in my room and wedged it between the bathroom door and the door frame to block the light steaming through. The best unique feature the room has is the ability to lock it. My SCA implored to everyone to make sure they left their room key behind because replacements are basically impossible to come by, short of custom creating new ones. The ensuite toilet in its own little room was a nice feature too.


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## The Davy Crockett

I hope it is true that the Ocean will not see any further reductions in service and that the rumors swirling through the train when I rode it are just rumors. I can see where the news that the train would no longer run on a certain day could make folks jump to the wrong assumptions. However, if it is the case that no further reductions in service are in the works, I think the conclusions reached by the crew are very telling. They would show a complete lack of trust and confidence in VIA management on the part of its employees. Even the training of new crew can easily be explained by the belief stated to me by a crew member that VIA's right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. I had one long time crew member say to me that VIA has pretty much done everything it can do to screw over the Ocean.

BTW, this lack of trust in management was evident on the Canadian in February too.

I do need to add that I think It is a credit to the professionalism of the crews I've had on VIA that they take pride in their work and do their best to provide top level service despite the uncertiany and issues they face in their workplace.

My advice for people to ride now comes from the fact that I had a chance to ride the train to Gapse and passed on it. When do the folks here who are so certain the Ocean is safe think I'll get a chance to ride to Gaspe? After all, Via says at its website that the service is only temporarily suspended. That is not what I heard from Via employees 'in the trenches.'


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## rrdude

Can I trade in AGR points for VIA points, just to ride the Ocean "one more time". Meh, maybe I dunna wanna ride the Ren cars after reading, Davy's report.

But it sure was a treat about five years ago, in winter, with the Budd consist, domes, sleepers, and diner, said the "Gumpy and crotchety old man..............." hahahahhaaa


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## NS VIA Fan

> Can I trade in AGR points for VIA points, just to ride the Ocean "one more time". Meh, maybe I dunna wanna ride the Ren cars after reading, Davy's report


After several trips in a old Budd Chateau (Shake! Rattle! Vibrate!) when they were filling in for the Rens a couple of winters ago.........Ill still take a Ren anyday!


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## Swadian Hardcore

NS VIA Fan said:


> Can I trade in AGR points for VIA points, just to ride the Ocean "one more time". Meh, maybe I dunna wanna ride the Ren cars after reading, Davy's report
> 
> 
> 
> After several trips in a old Budd Chateau (Shake! Rattle! Vibrate!) when they were filling in for the Rens a couple of winters ago.........Ill still take a Ren anyday!
Click to expand...

Hmm, but Budds are reportedly the most reliable and cheapest-to-operate cars in VIA Rail's fleet, while the Ren cars are reported and widely-known as lemons. OK, maybe the Budds rattle a lot but maybe it was just that the "filler" consist was sitting in storage and out of shape. Maybe they rattle a bit or vibrate, but downright shaking? How do people make all that smooth filming in Budd cars? Can you descride what it actually felt like to ride in those?


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## NS VIA Fan

> Can you descride what it actually felt like to ride in those?


Shake.....Rattle......Vibrate......One particular offender was Chateau LaSalle. It was in the consist for one winter season then back again the following without much or any improvement.

I have yet to have an uncomfortable ride in a Ren. Perhaps my next ride in a couple of weeks will be one with the seat problem described above but I'm used to the light on all night in the annex so don't really notice it now. It's such a small crack at the door frame.


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## AlanB

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Hmm, but Budds are reportedly the most reliable and cheapest-to-operate cars in VIA Rail's fleet, while the Ren cars are reported and widely-known as lemons.


I'd love to know where you got that information. I for one find it hard to believe that cars that require parts to be manufactured from scratch cost less to operate than the newest cars in the fleet.


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## Swadian Hardcore

AlanB said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, but Budds are reportedly the most reliable and cheapest-to-operate cars in VIA Rail's fleet, while the Ren cars are reported and widely-known as lemons.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to know where you got that information. I for one find it hard to believe that cars that require parts to be manufactured from scratch cost less to operate than the newest cars in the fleet.
Click to expand...

 VIA Rail official reports on Budd cars, incidentaly sent to me by NS VIA Fan, attached below unaltered. It's in one of them or possibly multiple ones of them. Not sure which, you'll have to sift through them. But remember, NS VIA Fan said that they are unstable, not that they are expensive to operate. Maybe Chateau LaSalle was just sitting in storage too long and needed some maintainence.


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## NS VIA Fan

Swadian Hardcore said:


> .......................But remember, NS VIA Fan said that they are unstable, not that they are expensive to operate. Maybe Chateau LaSalle was just sitting in storage too long and needed some maintainence.


I did Not say the cars were unstable but did say they shake, rattle and vibrate when compared to the smooth riding Rens. When riding the Canadian last December, I found the folding partion between the bedrooms constantly shaking and very annoying.


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## Swadian Hardcore

NS VIA Fan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......................But remember, NS VIA Fan said that they are unstable, not that they are expensive to operate. Maybe Chateau LaSalle was just sitting in storage too long and needed some maintainence.
> 
> 
> 
> I did Not say the cars were unstable but did say they shake, rattle and vibrate when compared to the smooth riding Rens. When riding the Canadian last December, I found the folding partion between the bedrooms constantly shaking and very annoying.
Click to expand...

They need an overhaul for sure. This seems like small mechanical problems, nothing a good fix can't resolve.


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## Guest

The HEP I cars were rebuilt from the ground up in the early1990s including the complete replacement of their electrical and mechanical systems, and the installation of computerized systems monitoring. Although the car bodies date from the 1950s these major systems are actually more up to date than those Amtrak's Superliner I's, which have mostly been refurbished, but without replacing the 1970s electrical and air conditioning

Most but not all of he HEP fleet, including all of the Manors sleepers and diners and most of the Skylines and Park cars, have had a major overall within the last few years, including new décor, but not the upgrading of major systems, except in the diners. The Chateaus and coaches have not been part of the latest rebuilding program.

The Renaissance cars have proved to be more difficult and costly to maintain and operate than anticipated, and are now mostly gone form the corridor. Their are certainly issues with respect to the suitability for operating during the winter and there were costly mandated modifications for accessibility. However, from my experience it is fair to say that they ride better than most North American rolling stock; that is characteristic of British undercarriages. On the other hand the tight loading gauges severely limit the room inside, e.g. in the sleeper corridors, and the fit and finish of the interiors is not particularly suitable for North American operating conditions, e.g. the use of wood panel trim the sleeping car rooms..

In my experience the food in the Renaissance diners is acceptable for pre-catered food. The presentation is excellent, as normally is the service. Some dishes lend themselves to reheating, while others do not, notably omelets. (My worst omelet on a train was on the Montrealer many years ago when the food service had been relegated to a café, and the reheating was in a microwave not a convection oven.)

But given the realities of the cost of on-train catering, the Ocean's meal service isn't too bad. Prior to introducing the Renaissance equipment the diner offered a pretty limited range, though the menu did include a grilled to order steak. It is interesting that the review from the Davie Crockett focuses as much the portion size as it does on the food itself.

In any case the claims made about cook-from-scratch train food is a bit of a red herring. Nowhere (not even on the Canadian) are meals truly made from scratch these days. The best train foods are finished on the grill, which you can't do on a Renaissance diner, Via Business Class car, Acela First Class, or the diner lite on the Cardinal. But the technology preparing food in a central commisionary is such that one should be able to get a decent meal on a train just like one can in a chain restaurant or the front cabin on a plane..

Finally, I am, not at all surprised to hear that the onboard staff is unhappy VIA management these days,. Remember that they were legislated back to work a couple of years ago and there were significant job losses due to the post-2012 cutbacks.


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## Swadian Hardcore

I think the portions of food are equally important as the quality. You can have great food in tiny amounts, and people on the train will still be going hungry. Or you can have disgusting meat patties in huge numbers, but people will get all kinds of sick. Sick passngers and hungry passengers are both very bad for company image, especially when meals are supposed to be included in the fare.

As for the Budds, now I understand why Chateau LaSalle was such a bad sleeper. They should overhaul the Chateaus now, don't have to rebuild them, but just overhaul them. I believe this should stop the rattling.

How do the Budd Coaches perform in service? According to "guest" post 32, they haven't been overhauled either, but since they don't seem as complicated as the Chateaus, maybe they're not too bad. The Chateaus have those staggered rooms which probably increase rattling unless they get overhauled. Do the ex-CP coaches run better or the ex-Amtrak ones?


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## The Davy Crockett

I just got my copy of the June 2014 issue of Trains magazine. On page 22 is an article entitled "Tides Turn on the 'Ocean'" which very much echos my posts in this thread. For starters, the article states that the service may end as early as July of this year.

The article talks of all the various changes made to the Ocean's schedule to make it "...less relevant to public moblilty...." This is exactly the kind of thing the crew was talking about when they said VIA has "...pretty much done everything it can do to screw over the Ocean."

Writing about the food in the dining car, the author, Bob Johnson writes: "...the menu offered only a few overpriced microwave choices at each meal, including perhaps the worst omelet ever served in a dining car." Hmmm, this sounds familiar from somewhere...

Little optimism is given for a reroute over the NTR:



> Facing service challenges... ...on its primary corridor and reduced government funding, VIA management has little incentive to negotiate with CN to reroute the Ocean.



The article has the Canadian Minister of Transport saying that "...VIA Rail, as an independent crown corporation..." was on its own on this matter and that the Feds have no intention of buying the 44 mile section which is proposed to be abandioned.

The article concludes with this:



> VIA spokeswoman Mylene Berlanger told TRAINS, "If the section is abandoned, we will look into the commercial viability of all other alternativesfor connecting between Halifax and Montreal before adopting another route.


As I said before, want to ever ride the Ocean? :excl: Do it now. :excl:

...Unless you don't mind riding a bus for at least part of the way. :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:


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## NS VIA Fan

Federal Transport Minister Lisa Raitt is scheduled to visit Ridings in northern New Brunswick shortly along the route of the Ocean and there is speculation it will be to announce the retention of the section of track that's subject to abandonment.

She also met with the Mayors in those communities recently and they said they were satisfied with the meeting.

The Minister would probably not visit a Riding to announce the discontinuance of a train especially with a Federal election on the horizon.........just like the Minister’s announcement a couple of weeks ago in Sault Ste Marie regarding the new funding to continue the Algoma Central train the Hearst.

Again.....I'm optimistic the Ocean will survive and more so now along it's current route.


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## railiner

Let's hope so....the loss of the Ocean would be a terrible one... I feel somewhat guilty in making that statement, in that although I visit Halifax every autumn on a cruise, and always enjoy walking over to the station to see the train, if it happens to be there that day, I have not actually supported it by riding it....

But I guess I am like many that take for granted that certain trains are like an 'institution', that 'will always be there'.....

This is another wake-up call to ride it, 'while you can'.....


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## manchacrr

I am currently booked on the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax on Wednesday, July 16, and returning from Halifax to Montreal on Friday, July 18. I'm optimistic that the train will at least run through July as they let me book a ticket on the Ocean (3 weeks ago) and are still selling tickets for the train in July. I have tickets in Sleeper Plus Class with access to the Park Car. On my email confirmation, it states that VIA Rail guarantees transportation between Halifax and Montreal for my dates booked.


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## Devil's Advocate

manchacrr said:


> I am currently booked on the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax on Wednesday, July 16, and returning from Halifax to Montreal on Friday, July 18. I'm optimistic that the train will at least run through July as they let me book a ticket on the Ocean (3 weeks ago) and are still selling tickets for the train in July. I have tickets in Sleeper Plus Class with access to the Park Car. On my email confirmation, it states that VIA Rail guarantees transportation between Halifax and Montreal for my dates booked.


Chances are they could put you on a bus or refund your money and still not run afoul of the contract that *they* wrote.


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## manchacrr

Devil's Advocate said:


> manchacrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am currently booked on the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax on Wednesday, July 16, and returning from Halifax to Montreal on Friday, July 18. I'm optimistic that the train will at least run through July as they let me book a ticket on the Ocean (3 weeks ago) and are still selling tickets for the train in July. I have tickets in Sleeper Plus Class with access to the Park Car. On my email confirmation, it states that VIA Rail guarantees transportation between Halifax and Montreal for my dates booked.
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are they could put you on a bus or refund your money and still not run afoul of the contract that *they* wrote.
Click to expand...

Technically they could, but as of yet, VIA has not contacted me to tell me that the train is no longer running. Until they say otherwise, I'm assuming that I will be on a train.


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## NS VIA Fan

manchacrr said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manchacrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am currently booked on the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax on Wednesday, July 16, and returning from Halifax to Montreal on Friday, July 18. I'm optimistic that the train will at least run through July as they let me book a ticket on the Ocean (3 weeks ago) and are still selling tickets for the train in July. I have tickets in Sleeper Plus Class with access to the Park Car. On my email confirmation, it states that VIA Rail guarantees transportation between Halifax and Montreal for my dates booked.
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are they could put you on a bus or refund your money and still not run afoul of the contract that *they* wrote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Technically they could, but as of yet, VIA has not contacted me to tell me that the train is no longer running. Until they say otherwise, I'm assuming that I will be on a train.
Click to expand...

As I stated a couple of posts above, I’m quite optimistic about the Ocean. The Minister of Transport is scheduled to visit the riding in northern New Brunswick and I’m sure it’s not going to be to announce the trains discontinuance……she’d do that as far away as possible!

Besides……VIA has recently hired new onboard crews in the Halifax area and has had a set of equipment at the station there for crew training.


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## railiner

NS VIA Fan said:


> manchacrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manchacrr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am currently booked on the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax on Wednesday, July 16, and returning from Halifax to Montreal on Friday, July 18. I'm optimistic that the train will at least run through July as they let me book a ticket on the Ocean (3 weeks ago) and are still selling tickets for the train in July. I have tickets in Sleeper Plus Class with access to the Park Car. On my email confirmation, it states that VIA Rail guarantees transportation between Halifax and Montreal for my dates booked.
> 
> 
> 
> Chances are they could put you on a bus or refund your money and still not run afoul of the contract that *they* wrote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Technically they could, but as of yet, VIA has not contacted me to tell me that the train is no longer running. Until they say otherwise, I'm assuming that I will be on a train.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I stated a couple of posts above, I’m quite optimistic about the Ocean. The Minister of Transport is scheduled to visit the riding in northern New Brunswick and I’m sure it’s not going to be to announce the trains discontinuance……she’d do that as far away as possible!
> 
> Besides……VIA has recently hired new onboard crews in the Halifax area and has had a set of equipment at the station there for crew training.
Click to expand...

That does sound promising.

Curious about them hiring OBS crews based in Halifax....it would seem more logical to have them all Montreal based, so that they could be used on other routes, and if the Ocean did discontinue, the crew's would not be left "high and dry".....

I suppose politics dictate that some of the Ocean's crew be from Nova Scotia.....


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## NS VIA Fan

railiner said:


> That does sound promising.
> 
> Curious about them hiring OBS crews based in Halifax....it would seem more logical to have them all Montreal based, so that they could be used on other routes, and if the Ocean did discontinue, the crew's would not be left "high and dry".....
> 
> I suppose politics dictate that some of the Ocean's crew be from Nova Scotia.....


[SIZE=11pt]Might have something to do with the tri-weekly schedule and the need to possibly have to lay-over at the away terminal for a couple of days[/SIZE]


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## NS VIA Fan

The Ocean's route is saved!

Announcement will be made Monday in Fredericton by Transport Minister Lisa Raitt with the Premier and local Mayors in attendance:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/feds-to-fund-repairs-to-n-b-via-rail-link-1.2638146


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## OBS

Thanks for the GREAT news!


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## railiner

Yes! Thanks!


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## The Davy Crockett

NS VIA Fan said:


> The Ocean's route is saved!
> 
> Announcement will be made Monday in Fredericton by Transport Minister Lisa Raitt with the Premier and local Mayors in attendance:
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/feds-to-fund-repairs-to-n-b-via-rail-link-1.2638146


I was just going to post this...

I heard about this while riding a 7 hour late #2 into TWO yesterday.

Hip, hip hooray... 

For this...

... and my $400 credit. :lol:


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## NS VIA Fan

Caught #15 at Truro yesterday afternoon with an expanded consist for the Victoria Day holiday weekend.......including an extra Ren Coach, Ren Sleeper and a Chateau just ahead of the Park.

The extra Ren Coach and Ren Sleeper will probably remain in the consist now with additional Ren Sleepers added when Sleeper Plus class begins in mid-June for the summer season.


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## The Davy Crockett

NS VIA Fan said:


> Caught #15 at Truro yesterday afternoon with an expanded consist for the Victoria Day holiday weekend.......including an extra Ren Coach, Ren Sleeper and a Chateau just ahead of the Park.
> 
> The extra Ren Coach and Ren Sleeper will probably remain in the consist now with additional Ren Sleepers added when Sleeper Plus class begins in mid-June for the summer season.


Great Pics! Thanks for sharing! Now that the uncertainty of whether the The Ocean will be running past July has been cleared up, hopefully ticket sales will do well.

Long Live The Ocean! I hope its around for another 110 years!


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## railiner

Ditto, thanks for the photo's!

It must feel weird passing from those classic Budd cars into the diminutive Ren cars....but probably most passenger's will not notice the difference....


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