# Have new AGR rules killed my fav points run?



## Cristobal (Nov 17, 2010)

I just got off the phone with an AGR rep about missing points from a points run that I took on 10/24.

GAC to MTZ

MTZ to OKJ

1 1/2 hr layover to get some lunch and do a walk-about

OKJ to GAC

It's always been counted as three trips in the past. However, after about 10 minutes on hold the rep comes back and says that MTZ back to GAC is counted as one trip (even though it's on two different trains). I tell him that I've done the some itinerary many times before and always been given points for each 'leg'. He understands all that but then goes on to tell me that many things are changing as to how they award points. He did say that he would forward my query for review but he didn't offer much encouragement towards a happy resolution.


----------



## sechs (Nov 17, 2010)

Did you do this all on the Capitol Corridor, or did you take the MTZ-OKJ segment on the San Joaquins?


----------



## Ryan (Nov 17, 2010)

Are GAC-MTZ and MTZ-OKJ on the same reservation? I wonder if having two separate reservations would help?


----------



## PRR 60 (Nov 17, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Are GAC-MTZ and MTZ-OKJ on the same reservation? I wonder if having two separate reservations would help?


If you put the two segments on separate reservations, the fare is the total of the two one-way fares. That is usually higher than the multi-city option for a same-day trip. Multi-city, same day trips with an intermediate stop-over prices the two segments at the end-to-end one way fare.

Either AGR is making some major modifications to the points earning rules, or the new Amtrak-based AGR agents were dozing during their training classes (if they had any). There seem to be multiple stories of the new agents not understanding how AGR works. I hope that is the case here and not that Amtrak is tightening the screws on how points are earned.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 17, 2010)

I'd start with a different agent first. However, failing that, any rules change must be reflected in their rules on their website. Currently that is not reflected on the website, so they cannot enforce a rule change that has not happened.

Here is rule #4:



> Except as provided in this Section, Members who provide their Membership Number at the time of ticket purchase will earn 2 Points for every $1 spent on Amtrak travel, a minimum of 100 Points for each trip. A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per member, per day will be allowed to earn points under the 100 point minimum per trip rule. Any trips subsequent to the maximum of two roundtrips or four one-ways, per member, per day will receive 2 Points for every $1 if the trips point value exceeds 100 points. The definition of a trip is the entirety of a Member's travel in a given day, on the same train number. That is, Members may earn Points for one train ticket used on a single train or individual train number on a single day. Multiple tickets for the same train or individual train number, on the same day, will not earn Points.


So your run qualifies. He's wrong!

Make sure that you take a screen shot of the T&C and save that to your computer. You may even want to email it to yourself and a friend, that way you have date & time stamps that show what the rules were at the time of the trip.

If you get no where with a second agent, then head over to Flyertalk and send a PM to AGRInsider and ask for their help.


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 18, 2010)

To answer a few of your questions it was a multi-city trip on a single reservation all on Capitol Corridor trains (#724, #729, & #733). I've done this same 'points run' at least a half a dozen times before but this was the first one since the transition.

I hope that AlanB is right and it is simply due to some confusion/misunderstanding at the AGR end and not actually a rules change. I will give it a few days to play out as the rep I spoke to said that he would "forward it for review" and that I should get some sort of email response within a few days. If nothing becomes of that I will call back during the day shift to see if I can get a better response from a different rep and/or supervisor.

<fingers crossed>


----------



## sechs (Nov 18, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> If you put the two segments on separate reservations, the fare is the total of the two one-way fares. That is usually higher than the multi-city option for a same-day trip. Multi-city, same day trips with an intermediate stop-over prices the two segments at the end-to-end one way fare.


This isn't how it works with the Capitol Corridor. They have a set fare for each city pair, and it doesn't change based upon stop-overs. In general, the sum of the two segment fares is higher than through.
If I'm not mistaken, GAC-MTZ and MTZ-GAC cost exactly the same; but MTZ-OKJ-GAC costs a couple bucks more.


----------



## Cristobal (Nov 29, 2010)

After calling again today, AGR remains adamant that the 'new rules' only pay points for every trip and that MTZ-OKJ-GAC is now counted as a single trip. 

Looking back over the rule that AlanB posted it is kind of ambiguous, especially since I don't know exactly how it was worded in the past.

I wonder what GAC-MTZ, MTZ-OKJ, OKJ-SJC, SJC-GAC would do to their 'system'? :blink:


----------



## the_traveler (Nov 29, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> After calling again today, AGR remains adamant that the 'new rules' only pay points for every trip


I book KIN-PVD and PVD-BOS and then BOS-PVD and PVD-KIN (all different trains) and get 100 points for each! I consider "a trip" to be "a ticketed segment". I would not consider KIN-PVD-BOS on 2 trains as 1 trip, the same as I would not consider WAS-CHI-LAX to count as 1 trip!




(I have yet to see *one ticket* say "depart WAS on #29 and arrive LAX on #3"!



I've only have seen *two separate* tickets! So why should that count as "1 trip?



)


----------



## AlanB (Nov 29, 2010)

Cristobal said:


> After calling again today, AGR remains adamant that the 'new rules' only pay points for every trip and that MTZ-OKJ-GAC is now counted as a single trip.
> 
> Looking back over the rule that AlanB posted it is kind of ambiguous, especially since I don't know exactly how it was worded in the past.
> 
> I wonder what GAC-MTZ, MTZ-OKJ, OKJ-SJC, SJC-GAC would do to their 'system'? :blink:


Head over to Flyertalk and appeal to AGR Insider. That would be the final authority on things.


----------



## PRR 60 (Nov 30, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Cristobal said:
> 
> 
> > After calling again today, AGR remains adamant that the 'new rules' only pay points for every trip and that MTZ-OKJ-GAC is now counted as a single trip.
> ...


Is Flyertalk the only way to get to anyone at AGR who can provide authoritative information? Sadly, it seems to be (and, AGR Insider has been missing there lately). You can e-mail AGR using the "Contact Us" link, but they will never answer any questions. They respond to every e-mailed question with a canned response to call AGR CS. I really love the times when the phone agent says to e-mail the question, then the e-mail response says to phone. Classic.

On a related note, does anyone else feel that the quality of AGR customer service had declined since brought in-house by Amtrak? The extended hours are great, but the agents and even the supervision seem baffled by the program policies.


----------



## jis (Nov 30, 2010)

I had the forever optimistic hope that Amtrak bringing AGR inhouse would actually improve things. I guess not.


----------



## AlanB (Nov 30, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Is Flyertalk the only way to get to anyone at AGR who can provide authoritative information? Sadly, it seems to be (and, AGR Insider has been missing there lately). You can e-mail AGR using the "Contact Us" link, but they will never answer any questions. They respond to every e-mailed question with a canned response to call AGR CS. I really love the times when the phone agent says to e-mail the question, then the e-mail response says to phone. Classic.
> 
> On a related note, does anyone else feel that the quality of AGR customer service had declined since brought in-house by Amtrak? The extended hours are great, but the agents and even the supervision seem baffled by the program policies.


Alas, at the moment, yes that seems to be the best way to get a problem fixed. And while Vicki hasn't been as active as she was before the move, no doubt due to the issues related to the move, she did answer my post about the issue with agents claiming that trips that saw a spend of less than $40 did not qualify for double points.

And shortly after that, I as well as several other people found that their accounts had been adjusted to reflect the correct interpretation of the rules for our Gathering trips on the MORR.

Personally I think that AGR just needs some more time to sort things out and get people up to speed. You know as well as I do that Amtrak typically leaves things to the last minute, which invariably means chaos and confusion initially. Yes it won't be easy to get everyone on the same page, just like we have great attendants and crappy ones, but I have confidence that Senior Director Michael Blakey will do everything within his power to get things fixed as much as he possibly can within the contraints of Amtrak and its government masters.

Michael has banged his head against the wall of Amtrak management for the last 10 years trying to get a better program and even more so to get cooperation from the other departments to help him promote AGR and offer things to loyal AGR members. I don't see him giving up now!


----------



## chuljin (Dec 7, 2010)

I think the computer and the agent were mistaken, to the OP's unluck.

Trips on different train numbers in the same direction on the same service/corridor still all work for me.

eg on 11/20 (after the original post), I did 774 GDL-LAX, 578 LAX-FUL, 580 FUL-SNA, 582 SNA-IRV, and got points for all.


----------



## Cristobal (Dec 9, 2010)

chuljin said:


> I think the computer and the agent were mistaken, to the OP's unluck.
> 
> Trips on different train numbers in the same direction on the same service/corridor still all work for me.
> 
> eg on 11/20 (after the original post), I did 774 GDL-LAX, 578 LAX-FUL, 580 FUL-SNA, 582 SNA-IRV, and got points for all.


The difference may be that my itinerary was a r/t and yours was not. At least that was the way it was explained to me. The return leg counted as a single 'trip' regardless of the number of different trains involved. It's not worth my time and effort to continue to press this issue. I'll just ride fewer trains. I am curious though what might happen if I were to book multi-city SJC-MTZ, MTZ-OKJ, OKJ-GAC and then simply board the out-bound at GAC instead of SJC. It would then not be a r/t per se so it may stump the system. Oh well, we may never know.

In the meantime, I'll simply go r/t GAC-EMY for some breakfast this weekend.


----------



## Cristobal (Jan 3, 2011)

I think that this topic deserves an update...

Sometime in the last few weeks (it's been a while since I checked my AGR balance) I was credited points for the trip in question. I have no way of knowing if it was the phone calls or some sort of audit that brought it about but I'm happy nonetheless.


----------

