# Megabus



## Kenneth (Aug 25, 2013)

I see ads for $1 fares. What is the catch? That fair won't cover fuel. Let alone the rest of the business costs.


----------



## PRR 60 (Aug 25, 2013)

Kenneth said:


> I see ads for $1 fares. What is the catch? That fair won't cover fuel. Let alone the rest of the business costs.


It's what is called a "loss leader." It gets people to the website. There may be just one or two $1 seats on each bus, so they lose money on those seats. But, it increases traffic at the website and likely sells additional seats at profitable fares. The loss on the $1 fares is considered an advertising cost that generates greater overall revenue and profit.


----------



## Texan Eagle (Aug 25, 2013)

Kenneth said:


> I see ads for $1 fares. What is the catch? That fair won't cover fuel. Let alone the rest of the business costs.


There is no catch. They indeed do sell a few seats on all routes for $1 ($1.50 actually, since there is a 50 cents booking fee if that makes a big difference to you). If you're lucky and flexible with dates/times, you can travel hundreds of miles for $1.50. I have done it more than once.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 25, 2013)

The reasons Megabus is so cheap includes that they don't have stations, that they use cheap Van Hool double-deckers buses which look appealing but are actually very dangerous, that those buses also carry more passenger-miles per gallon, and that they pay employees lower wages than Greyhound. Even though Megabus would not make a profit on all $1.50 fares, they sell one ticket at that and everything else higher.

Of course it's very foolish to ride them because you just need to ask any driver if he wants to drive for Megabus. Any good commercial driver would say No. They don't pay well, they use those terrible Van Hools, and their mechanics often maintain the buses poorly.

I am sure that most or all other bus fans would also avert from riding Megabus. Bus noobs can go ahead, but if you know anything about buses, you'll know that anything's better than a Van Hool, yes, even a Dina.


----------



## jebr (Aug 25, 2013)

There's no specific catch, but Megabus does usually only have 1 or 2 tickets on each bus sold at $1.

Honestly, other than the station situation, Megabus, from a passenger's perspective, is no better or worse than other major bus companies. They're owned by Coach USA, so they're not as fly-by-night as some of the lesser-known bus companies, and I've taken them numerous times with no more than average problems (one missed connection in which, since it wasn't important, I just had them book me on a bus back, which they did at no charge; and another where the AC broke down on the bus. This is out of over 20+ legs on Megabus, so overall it's par for the course.)

I know, not exactly a "stellar" recommendation, but I usually will take them over Greyhound if the schedule allows. It's pretty inexpensive, I don't mind waiting outside, and personally I've had better luck overall with Megabus than Greyhound. I'm not a "bus fan," per se, so I don't worry about Van Hool versus MCI versus other bus companies. Megabus just has had less overall issues for me than Greyhound has.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 25, 2013)

jebr said:


> There's no specific catch, but Megabus does usually only have 1 or 2 tickets on each bus sold at $1.
> Honestly, other than the station situation, Megabus, from a passenger's perspective, is no better or worse than other major bus companies. They're owned by Coach USA, so they're not as fly-by-night as some of the lesser-known bus companies, and I've taken them numerous times with no more than average problems (one missed connection in which, since it wasn't important, I just had them book me on a bus back, which they did at no charge; and another where the AC broke down on the bus. This is out of over 20+ legs on Megabus, so overall it's par for the course.)
> 
> I know, not exactly a "stellar" recommendation, but I usually will take them over Greyhound if the schedule allows. It's pretty inexpensive, I don't mind waiting outside, and personally I've had better luck overall with Megabus than Greyhound. I'm not a "bus fan," per se, so I don't worry about Van Hool versus MCI versus other bus companies. Megabus just has had less overall issues for me than Greyhound has.


If you know anything about Van Hool vs MCI vs Prevost and the others, you probably won't even think about taking Megabus again. I would never ride Megabus again after a few tries of their Van Hool. Do want you want, ride Megabus at your own risk. At this point, I just hope that you won't get crushed in an accident.

And long Greyhound rides are often better than short ones because of the driver and equipment assignments, etc. But Greyhound dosen't even go to St. Cloud, so it dosen't matter for you anyway.


----------



## Kenneth (Aug 26, 2013)

I was just interested. I travel by train, or do my own driving. I did see them loading along the street in Chicago while I was looking around outside Union Station waiting on the train. Looked pretty un clean to me. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Trogdor (Aug 26, 2013)

If you have proof that Megabus's VanHool fleet is "very dangerous", then perhaps you should be writing to the DoT to get them shut down.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 26, 2013)

Trogdor said:


> If you have proof that Megabus's VanHool fleet is "very dangerous", then perhaps you should be writing to the DoT to get them shut down.


Prehaps I will, but for solid evidience I need to get into the Van Hool garages, and I don't think's they'll let known haters into the garage. But the vast majority of recent bus accidents have involved Van Hools, and this combined with lots of malfunctions and lots of driver-hate have amounted to a pile of circumstantial evidence.

Also, note that drivers and riders who hated Van Hools were able to convince AC Transit to stop buying them. The new AC Transit president switched to buying Gillig LFs. Worth a try to lobby and team up with others to continue the fight against these terrible imported buses until they are totally banned from the US. I think if we can get Alex Cook and some other professionals to finnaly unearth the lethal problems in the Van Hool, then the fight will be ours.


----------



## Trogdor (Aug 26, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I think if we can get Alex Cook and some other professionals to finnaly unearth the lethal problems in the Van Hool, then the fight will be ours.


You do that. Let me know how it works out.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 26, 2013)

Trogdor said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > I think if we can get Alex Cook and some other professionals to finnaly unearth the lethal problems in the Van Hool, then the fight will be ours.
> ...


The problem right now is that we need professionals to check the Van Hool garages and publicize their findings. But Megabus probably isn't going to let Greyhound engineers like Alex Cook into their garage without some jumps through hoops. Greyhound itself is also testing Van Hool demonstrators, which could lead to a disaster for the company like the G4500 did over a dozen years ago. We fans are hoping the pros can unearth problems in these units, block any Greyhound orders, and submit a request to the FMCSA for a total removal of all Van Hools.

Megabus/Coach USA engineers themselves obviously won't go against the bus type because their company has built its customer base around the double-decker ones.

It's very hard for a mere enthusiast like me to do much direct action myself, especially with my own job to worry about. The best I can do right now is to encourage all the Van Hool drivers and mechanics to band together against the bus because they are the ones who know the most about them. These guys can provide the solid evidence needed to oust the Van Hools. Then more problems arise, because a lot of Van Hool problems get blamed on the operator instead of the manufacturer. The employees who worked against the Van Hools would lose their jobs if their operators were to go bust.

So this is not easy. It worked with AC Transit partially because that is a governement agency and it won't get shut down, only to have the Van Hools removed over time. They'll need a lot of Gilligs to replace all the Van Hools, and Gillig dosen't make artics either. AC might need to look at New Flyer to buy some artics.


----------



## jebr (Aug 27, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > There's no specific catch, but Megabus does usually only have 1 or 2 tickets on each bus sold at $1.
> ...


From a purely consumer point of view (not knowing the differences between Van Hool and MCI, etc.) I've had better luck with Megabus than Greyhound. (I'll often make the drive to MSP to catch one or the other, since it's a lot cheaper than taking JL from St. Cloud.)

Plus, the only time I was able to get from MSP to Chicago on Greyhound Express (the other time they cancelled due to a driver, but didn't call me and earlier in the day stated the trip was on, since there were weather issues earlier) I was stuck on a Van Hool on the way down anyways, and it smelled like someone forgot to drain the sewage tank. (They had one bus that was the standard Express bus, but they oversold and had a second bus that was...bad.) The only advantage that Greyhound currently has is their late-night schedule that I can catch after my late shift at work if I want to go down on a weekend.

But if I were to choose between Greyhound and Megabus as a consumer, Megabus wins, hands down. But that has little to do with the buses they use.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 27, 2013)

jebr said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > jebr said:
> ...


Again, this proves why Van Hools are so much worse than MCI. If you had actually been able to take a Greyhound MCI Express, that might have chnaged your opinion entirely.

But again, equiment is important and so are drivers. Megabus pays a lot less than Greyhound, and many their drivers are less experienced too. The old drivers are from other Coach USA companies, not Megabus original hires.


----------



## Ispolkom (Aug 27, 2013)

jebr said:


> Honestly, other than the station situation, Megabus, from a passenger's perspective, is no better or worse than other major bus companies.


Even the station issue is really the fault of the cities involved. If a city cares to, it can force Megabus to use a terminal, as happens in Buffalo, Toronto, Washington, and other cities. I'm willing enough to ride Megabus when the price is right and the trip falls within the time limits of my bus endurance (3.5-4 hours). I personally don't like the double-decker buses, but that's because of the low ceilings. As far as safety goes, I'm sure I'm safer on a bus than in a car, and I've yet to see any data on relative safety between bus companies.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 27, 2013)

Here in Texas its the Mexican bus companies (and commercial trucks) that can't drive worth a damn or even maintain what they drive. Clueless and illiterate operators driving broken hardware like there's no tomorrow. On any given day you can see these folks driving over the limit, tailgating, and meandering across lanes. Only to end up out of commission on the side of the road when their broken hardware gives up. I guess we have NAFTA to thank for that.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 27, 2013)

Mexican operators like Tornado are known for using Van Hool and Dinas, so they're all in the same bunch with Megabus. Tornado has bought a lot of Van Hool double-deckers, while the other companies use mostly Dinas, which are made in Mexico. Dina was the same company that built the G4500s.


----------



## jamesontheroad (Aug 28, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> The reasons Megabus is so cheap includes that they don't have stations, that they use cheap Van Hool double-deckers buses which look appealing but are actually very dangerous,



Sixteen posts into this thread, and I've yet to find any evidence or suggestion of evidence for this claim. If a Megabus or Van Hool lawyer was to read this thread s/he could find grounds for defamation in these remarks.

I don't defend Megabus, although as an occasional passenger in the UK and USA I respect what they've done to shake up the market for cheap bus travel by providing cheap, safe and reliable bus service that complies with the all the relevant jurisdictions they operate in.



Swadian Hardcore said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > If you have proof that Megabus's VanHool fleet is "very dangerous", then perhaps you should be writing to the DoT to get them shut down.
> ...



I'm sorry, but your claim of "circumstantial evidence" if dangerous buses smells of jingoism to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but you sound to me like a Greyhound fan who doesn't like a British company running Belgian buses on American roads.

Drawing on the (unscientific but well referenced) list of "incidents and accidents" relating to Megabus in the USA on Wikipedia (link), let's take a look at Megabus' notable accidents. Wikipedia has all the original references.


September 1, 2008: no injuries, drunk driver, arrested and suspended from employment at Coach USA.
December 10, 2009: eight injured. Poor visibility, blowing snow, high winds combined with an unsafe lane change attributed to bus coming off the road.
February 23, 2010: pedestrian killed in Chicago, Il. Driver receives citations for failing to yield the right of way to a pedestrian in a crosswalk and reckless driving.
September 11, 2010: four upper deck passengers killed, 17 injured, when the driver went off route.
October 21, 2011: no injuries, driver arrested for drunk driving (no information on subsequent suspension from employment).
August 2, 2012: one passenger killed when bus hit a concrete bridge pillar near Litchfield, Il. "Probably" caused by a tire blow-out (link)
August 7, 2012: pedestrian killed in Chicago, Il. Driver receives citations for failing to yield the right of way to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
August 8, 2012: bus catches fire near Lavonia, Ga. All passengers evacuated without injuries._)

Of these, all but two have been attributed to driver error or misdemeanour.

Of the two others, the August 2, 2012 accident was clearly the most serious and most troubling. But had the blowout happened to an American-designed bus, would there have been no casualties? The assumption here is that an American single deck bus would have been safer because passengers don't ride at the very front of the bus. While the one death was an unforgivable tragedy, it could be argued that as a result of the additional structural members in the upper deck floor actually reduced the vehicle's deformation compared to an equivalent single deck bus, thereby limiting injuries. Would all passengers on an MCI have survived a similar head on collision with a bridge pillar without injury?

As for the crash in Salina, when the Toronto-bound bus went off route? Check the clearance of that bridge. A single deck coach would also have lost its roof, and given the speed of the collision it's highly likely that there would have been fatalities.

And regarding the August 8 bus fire (note: no casualties) - have American-designed buses never caught fire (hint, hint and hint)?



Swadian Hardcore said:


> Worth a try to lobby and team up with others to continue the fight against these terrible imported buses until they are totally banned from the US. I think if we can get Alex Cook and some other professionals to finnaly unearth the lethal problems in the Van Hool, then the fight will be ours.



Nothing in this thread or in any incident I've seen above suggests that Van Hools are dangerous vehicles. The only areas of concern for me are repeated driver error, which has nothing to do with where the buses are designed and built, or poor maintenance - which _might_ have contributed to the blow-out in Litchfield, Il.

If you're so confident of your circumstantial evidence, the DoT has duty to investigate. But since Megabus operates within the letter of the law, I suggest you're wasting your time blaming the vehicles. The quest for safer public transit doesn't lie in banning imported equipment, but in raising the minimum standards for drivers and maintenance for all operators, not just the ones using (brand new) foreign equipment.

Just my two cents. I'll go put the oven gloves on for inevitable flaming I'm going to receive. :help:


----------



## nightrider (Aug 28, 2013)

No flaming. Much of what you say is valid. I will point out that Greyhound is actually now another British company (FirstGroup), running Canadian, Mexican, and Belgian buses as well. In fact Greyhound has not purchased a truly American built bus since they purchased their last General Motors PD4107 back in 1966. GMC left the coach business in 1980, and sold off their transit bus business several years later. Motor Coach Industries started out as a Canadian company. Greyhound bought them out, and later started buying buses from them after the US government forced Greyhound to end their exclusive relationship with GM due to antitrust issues. To circumvent US import tariffs, MCI built a 'finishing plant, in Pembina, North Dakota. Partially built coaches were built in the main MCI plant in Winnipeg, then flatbed trucked on down the road to Pembina to have final assembly.

This satisfied the government to call them 'American Made'. Greyhound no longer owns any part of MCI, but still purchases some coaches from them, as well as Prevost, another Canadian manufacturer, and even a few VanHool's of late. The MCI 'G' series, which Greyhound has several of, were built by DINA, a Mexican manufacturer, that for a brief period, actually owned MCI.

I believe a couple of the buses in those video's were the 'G' models.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 28, 2013)

You should know that I am not an American "super-patriot." I know well that Greyhound is owned by First Group, that they operate foreign buses, all that stuff you said. I was there when I heard that The Greyhound Corportation had sold it's lines to Fred Currey, when they sold MCI, who they bought Continental Trailways etc.

I've studied Greyhound history for many years. I know when Trauman forced his MCI subsidiary to paint their buses red and blue instead of gold and blue by manuevering around Harry Zoltak and asking the buses to be painted in Greyhound's own garages. I know that G4500s were built by Dina in Sahagun, Mexico, I read that on National Bus Trader. I know when GMC last built their H8H-649 in 1980.

I am not the person you all make me to be, I am not a stupid over-patriotic bus noob trying to pretend knowledgable about buses. Don't point the finger at _me_ saying that my posts about buses are all nonsense.

My dislike against Van Hools is fueled by my own poor rides in them combined with lots of driver and mechanic complaints I have received on bus fan boards. In addition, if you search up recent news articles about US bus accidents, almost all of them involved Van Hools. In fact, two recent Greyhound accidents both involved the small number of demonstrator Van Hools in their fleet.

Also, MCI buses have much more durable frames that allow them to take much more damage. A Burlington Trialways D4505 once crashed into a heavy truck with no casulties. Nasty crash, but no deaths: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/06/passengers-say-driver-may-have-been-on-phone-during-bus-crash/.

Same thing with a Greyhound Lines 102DL3 that rear-ended a truck in Pennsylvania with no casulties. Dozens injured, zero dead: http://www.firehouse.com/photostory/10856655/dozens-injured-in-pa-bus-crash

Or the other Greyhound 'DL3 that flipped over in Pennsylvania with no deaths: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/08/14-injured-when-greyhound-bus-overturns-in-penn.html

Now to address the three other accidents quoted by James Brown. The bus fire in Florida started when the tires on the tag axle ruptured. This is not attributable to a MCI deisgn flaw though, because many buses have tag axle fires. The paint was burned off, but the steel panel underneath remained intact, so no passneger were killed. The fire in Moles Lake, Washington involved a G4500, which was made by Dina in Mexico, not MCI, and is known to be a bad product. The fire on I-40 also involved a G4500. G4500 fires are caused by a variety of reasons, including engine overheats, electrical problems, and tag axle fires.

I actually like First Group a lot for their HSTs which are trains that I admire. I also like many German railcars and locomotives, like the Baureihe 103 or Baureihe 218. So please don't come accusing me of striking out against all foreign products.


----------



## railiner (Aug 28, 2013)

Motor Coach Industries, is now a US headquartered corporation, whose home office is in Schaumburg, Illinois.

Prevost is a Canadian company, however it is now a subsidiary of Volvo Group, headquartered in Gothenburg, Sweden.

Another problem with the double-deckers aside excess height oveall, and low headroom on both decks, is the excess weight. If every seat was occupied with an average weight person, along with baggage, the bus would exceed the legal load limit per axle on its three axle design. I believe Megabus can not sell all 81 seats as a result......


----------

