# Sleeping car attendant duties...



## Guest_Meme_* (Jul 10, 2008)

Is it becoming the norm for sleeper car passengers to set up their own beds?

We recently traveled on the Empire Builder from Chicago - Portland, in a roomette. Our attendant dropped early by early on to introduce himself and to acquaint us with features of the roomette and to tell us about location of the shower, toilets, dining car, etc., etc. He didn't mention the bed set-up, nor did we think to ask at the time - we assumed that he would come around later and ask when we wanted the service.

Well ... as time marched on, and 10:45 rolled around, we finally took looked at the instructions and did it ourselves. (My DH, a card-carryin' liberal Dem, is uncomfortable calling for a personal service if he's capable of handling it, which is why we didn't call the attendant. Had the attendant offered the service up front, we would have arranged the time with him -- which is what we did on another leg of our cross-country trip. But I digress.)

It wasn't a big deal, since Amtrak provides the instructions for doing the set-up. And since they do, I wondered whether it represented a general move toward less individualized service all the 'way round. Our attendant did keep the coffee urn filled, provide a filled ice chest near the urn (but didn't indicate it was for passenger use, so we weren't sure at first), put cartons of juice near the coffee station, and other such tasks (towels in shower, etc.). But we didn't see much of him except at the beginning and end of the trip.

This is a long story about a small deal - but I'm just curious about others' experiences and opinions on this. (And yes, we did tip him at the end for the things he took care of, but less than we would have otherwise.) What do others think about this?


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## AlanB (Jul 10, 2008)

Amtrak AFAIK is not moving towards a practice where upon it is the passenger's responsability to put down their own beds. That is still one of the primary duties of a sleeping car attendant. I'm not sure why he didn't come by, and you guys should have either pushed the call button or went looking for him. I would certainly have decreased, if not eliminated his tip for that lack of service.

He's also responsible for putting the beds back up and changing the sheets and blanket before the train arrives at its ultimate destination.

Now that said, I've done the beds myself on occasions just becuase I know how to do them and can do so quite easily. But that's just my preference sometimes as I often go to sleep late.

But again, your attendant was responsible for putting those beds down. Next time hit that call button! And take names and report them if they don't do it and don't offer to do it.


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## Konrad (Jul 10, 2008)

Guest_Meme_* said:


> Is it becoming the norm for sleeper car passengers to set up their own beds?
> We recently traveled on the Empire Builder from Chicago - Portland, in a roomette. Our attendant dropped early by early on to introduce himself and to acquaint us with features of the roomette and to tell us about location of the shower, toilets, dining car, etc., etc. He didn't mention the bed set-up, nor did we think to ask at the time - we assumed that he would come around later and ask when we wanted the service.
> 
> Well ... as time marched on, and 10:45 rolled around, we finally took looked at the instructions and did it ourselves. (My DH, a card-carryin' liberal Dem, is uncomfortable calling for a personal service if he's capable of handling it, which is why we didn't call the attendant. Had the attendant offered the service up front, we would have arranged the time with him -- which is what we did on another leg of our cross-country trip. But I digress.)
> ...


On my return trip on the Zephyr San Francisco - Chicago in March I had to make up my bedroom on three of the four nights. I like to turn in early on a train as there isn't much to do after sunset and the current practice of having the sleeping car attendant work in the diner is a real problem if you like to turn in during meal times. From the repeated ringing of call bells I suspect that I wasn't the only one waiting for service.

Being a practical type (no instructions in the bedrooms) I was able to work out how to convert my room myself. At the end of both trips I tipped accordingly - which is unfortunate for the staff because they didn't create the staffing arrangements.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't think the SCAs would want to have Amtrak encourage that anyway. They wouldn't enforce the policy. Why? Well, if they don't, then you don't need an attendant in every car (its questionable in some peoples minds already) and you can consolidate the work force. Meaning, they get canned.

I've made up my share of sleepers, usually because I often go to sleep very very late (2 AM and later) and I don't want to bother the attendant during one of his few opportunities to take a nap to do something I am quite capable of doing. But usually they ask, and I tell them not to bother. Or, since I now travel with Audrey, I have them do it when I go to dinner, and don't go back to my room until I waddle, stumble, and try really hard not to bang against anyone's walls as I drunkenly stagger back to my room. I think I've mastered the concept of being drunk on a moving train, but I'm not sure.


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## WhoozOn1st (Jul 11, 2008)

Once had a sleeper attendant - won't mention name or train - who I considered an extremely lazy worker. Almost never around, and almost never to be found. Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9." "Fine, then do it now, please." Never seen such grudging behavior on the part of a sleeper attendant before or since. No tip for that dude. Almost always a good tipper, but that kinda crap just doesn't fly.


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## Konrad (Jul 11, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I don't think the SCAs would want to have Amtrak encourage that anyway. They wouldn't enforce the policy. Why? Well, if they don't, then you don't need an attendant in every car (its questionable in some peoples minds already) and you can consolidate the work force. Meaning, they get canned.
> I've made up my share of sleepers, usually because I often go to sleep very very late (2 AM and later) and I don't want to bother the attendant during one of his few opportunities to take a nap to do something I am quite capable of doing. But usually they ask, and I tell them not to bother. Or, since I now travel with Audrey, I have them do it when I go to dinner, and don't go back to my room until I waddle, stumble, and try really hard not to bang against anyone's walls as I drunkenly stagger back to my room. I think I've mastered the concept of being drunk on a moving train, but I'm not sure.


I find alcohol actually aids movement around the train - just go with the roll.


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## Walt (Jul 11, 2008)

From my experience, the attendant usually converts the room to nighttime while you are at dinner, and converts the room back to daytime while you are at breakfast.

I guess if your attendant is busy, and doesn't notice you leaving to eat, this might not happen. Though, a quick stop at the attendant's room while going to the dining car, could help this to happen more smoothly.

While the attendant is indeed responsible for this service, the passenger does have to be reasonable, and by that, let him know "when". The attendant doesn't have ESP.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

My experience: long distance trains during daylight.

Some attendants ask when you get on the train or at least once. This might be because it IS the sleeper car.

One asked approximately every hour and I finally asked him, "and exactly where would I sit". Silence.

_"But again, your attendant was responsible for putting those beds down. Next time hit that call button! And take names and report them if they don't do it and don't offer to do it."_

Alan, do you ever vary that standard based on circumstances? I disagree with you on the "report it", _for a bed_.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 11, 2008)

My experiences have been rather uniform.

I have never had an attendant balk about bringing the bed down.

And I always have a 6 a.m. wake up call, so they tend to know that I have left my room for braakfast. Thus, 99.99% of the time the bed is made up when I return from the diner. I usually try to say "hello" to them so they will see me walking off to the diner for sure.

The only beds I have ever brought down myself were the old-style roomettes in the "old" cars which Amtrak later came to call "heritage". That bed was so simple they actually sort of expected you to do it yourself after they showed you how. At that, though , they still normally had the room made up again when I returned from breakfast.

I've had my share of sorry, sorry attendants, but never on that particular score.


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## Larry H. (Jul 11, 2008)

I would say that of the Sleepers I have been in the past two years that most have had pretty good service. One on the Empire Builder had a trainee which seemed to give the regular attendant an excuse to disappear the whole trip. I am afraid its just a sign of the times that service is no longer considered a fact of life with first class or sleeper travel. Considering the way people today avoid doing anything they don't want too, it seems that the majority of sleeping car attendants give it a pretty good try. I will say that the ones that give anything resembling old fashioned Pullman type service is a real rarity. Normally you get bare bones service.. Making the bed, some keeping the coffee urn filled. Its a rare attendant that offers you something or ask if you want something any more. I get particularly aggravated at those that take the stack of morning papers and just toss them on top of the trash can in the hall. Some will put it on your seat as they indeed should, or if they don't have too, its a least a slight feeling of someone trying to do some token bit of service. That seems to be about it now. Gone is the shoe shine which used to happen every night in the old days: Taking charge of your luggage boarding and detraining: Asking if you wished something from the diner such as soda brought to your room; Seeing that the restrooms and and car remained spotless; Brushing off you off, literally on detraining; and just plain acting like they are there to be of service should you wish some.. Usually after the beds are made most attendants seem to disappear!


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## had8ley (Jul 11, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> My experiences have been rather uniform.
> I have never had an attendant balk about bringing the bed down.
> 
> And I always have a 6 a.m. wake up call, so they tend to know that I have left my room for braakfast. Thus, 99.99% of the time the bed is made up when I return from the diner. I usually try to say "hello" to them so they will see me walking off to the diner for sure.
> ...


Bill;

Unfortunately I've witnessed first hand an attendant telling an 85 year old lady that it was his meal period and he would get to her when he returned. I walked across the hall and made the bed. Surprisingly, the attendant must have had espn, or something like that, because he never returned to check on her (she told me no one knocked on her door at breakfast the next morning and she had all the shades drawn.) I would think that there would be a liability issue here Bill if you got your hand or arm stuck letting down the upper bunk. I would like to know Amtrak's written policy~ perhaps OBS gone freight can fill us in.


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## Rafi (Jul 11, 2008)

Last September I met the best Sleeping Car attendant I've ever had, hands-down. His attention to detail, his candor, professionalism, and service were and have been unparalleled in my time on Amtrak LD services. Heck, I don't even mind mentioning his name—it was Dan, and he was in the Portland sleeper on the Empire Builder.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because he was ADAMANT that his guests (and yes, he called us and treated us as paying guests) not touch the beds for both liability reasons and because he wanted to make sure to bring extra pillows and blankets upon request. He was also adamant that we use the call button to summon him at any point and to not yell down the corridor. The guy is a class act.

-Rafi


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Quick poll

My experiences are almost 180 from most of yours.

Are you tipping (and adequately) when you first get on so that they know you're expecting a little higher service? I do, EVERY time. AND, since they're not mind readers and my mood or expectations may vary, I let them know upon _first_ encounter what I'd like during the trip. To one, I said, "I'm low maintenance, if I need you I'll come get you". In return I usually get frequent checks (depending on number of other passengers), luggage help, delivery of newspapers, conversational visits, ice refills, "can I get you anything" questions. They also inform about their "out of service" times and locate me within the diner to tell me how close to my stop the train is.I also believe that if I needed help with appearances, I'd get it. There's not a uniformity in their offerings but it suits me.

Try upping your tip and spelling out your expectations, up front.


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## had8ley (Jul 11, 2008)

Rafi said:


> Last September I met the best Sleeping Car attendant I've ever had, hands-down. His attention to detail, his candor, professionalism, and service were and have been unparalleled in my time on Amtrak LD services. Heck, I don't even mind mentioning his name—it was Dan, and he was in the Portland sleeper on the Empire Builder.
> Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because he was ADAMANT that his guests (and yes, he called us and treated us as paying guests) not touch the beds for both liability reasons and because he wanted to make sure to bring extra pillows and blankets upon request. He was also adamant that we use the call button to summon him at any point and to not yell down the corridor. The guy is a class act.
> 
> -Rafi


I had Dan and it was certainly a treat to be handled with kid gloves. Poor Dan~ I had him westbound (I got off in MSP)and the BN had a derailment west of Minot. They turned the train (actually ran around it) so that the engines were right next to the Portland sleeper heading back to Chicago. Poor Dan was almost by himself as the smoke from the engines was almost unbearable and the pax either camped out in the Sightseer lounge or made long meal periods in the diner. I went back to see Dan as I wasn't (fortunately) in his car eastbound and could barely stand the fumes. Like a real trooper Dan said, "At least we'll be getting home earlier."


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## Ed (Jul 11, 2008)

I had Dan a few weeks ago Westbound on the EB. He made the attendant I had Eastbound look like he was a rookie. Dan was truely a class act. The differences between Dan and the Eastbound attendant were night and day. And he always was so calm and relaxed. He made our trip (first ever on AMTRAK) a great experience. He was tipped accordingly.


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## Brahmama (Jul 11, 2008)

Ed said:


> I had Dan a few weeks ago Westbound on the EB. He made the attendant I had Eastbound look like he was a rookie. Dan was truely a class act. The differences between Dan and the Eastbound attendant were night and day. And he always was so calm and relaxed. He made our trip (first ever on AMTRAK) a great experience. He was tipped accordingly.


Wow! What good experiences with Dan. Maybe he'll get transfered to the Texas Eagle, Capitol Limited, or the Crescent in September so I can enjoy his attentions as well! I need to pull up my old trip reports and see if I had him on the EB way back when. We had some good experiences as well, anyway I can't remember any bad ones. Well, one, I had a wee bit too much wine on the Coast Starlight (?) at a wine and cheese function and left the purchased playing cards and some other items in the Lounge car and just plain forgot about them until we detrained in Seattle. But that was *my* fault and nothing to do with an attendant.

hmm, I'll insert a question here to save making another post.

We always carry wine with us onboard to enjoy in our sleeper. Does Amtrak provide wine glasses or should we bring our own?


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## wayman (Jul 11, 2008)

Rafi said:


> Last September I met the best Sleeping Car attendant I've ever had, hands-down. His attention to detail, his candor, professionalism, and service were and have been unparalleled in my time on Amtrak LD services.


Call me crazy, but I think it would actually make for a very enjoyable job to be a sleeping car attendant and "do it right". Do things the old fashioned way as much as possible, and should think many passengers would notice and be delighted. Yes, it's more work, but I should think the smiles would be worth it. But I don't think most people think that way.


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## wayman (Jul 11, 2008)

Brahmama said:


> We always carry wine with us onboard to enjoy in our sleeper. Does Amtrak provide wine glasses or should we bring our own?


On the SWC last fall, I ordered a half-bottle of wine for my first dinner, and didn't come close to finishing it by myself. The dining car steward actually offered to put it in the fridge, labeled with my name on a luggage tag around the bottle neck! And then I had more of it at lunch the next day. Fantastic service, definitely above and beyond the norm.

On another trip, I asked if I could take the rest of the bottle from the diner back to my seat in coach and was told I could and even given a glass to take with me! Making friends with the steward is always a good thing, in my experience.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 11, 2008)

So much about Dan----I think I just might remember a really good guy from Portland ot CHI a few years ago and he might be this "Dan".

Tell me, somebody, is Dan a thin red-headed guy?

In any case, whomever the thin red headed guy was, HE was the best I ever had, and I sort of think his name was Dan.

Anybody care to describe him?

I recall this guy lived in Milwaukee. He made a quick escape to catch a Milwaukee bound train after our on time Builder arrival. We had already stopped in Milwaukee on the trip.


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## RailFanLNK (Jul 11, 2008)

I had a coach attendent that kicked *** and his name was Dan and was from Milwaukee. He was Irish American and noticed my "Ireland" sweatshirt I had on. He was a GREAT coach attendent and even brought back a pamphlet talking about the Irish Festival in Milwaukee. I ended up giving him one of my Irish Voice newspapers and I have never seen him since. He was excellent! I believe I tipped him and I haven't tipped a whole lot of coach attendents if I don't see them much.

Also, when I travel Amtrak I always carry "thank you" cards with me and put the sleeper attendents tip in that and I tip at the end of the trip. "We" hand write out our thank you and tell them what we liked the best about the service. I know one of my cards on my last trip said, "Amtrak employees attitudes can make or break a family vacation....thanks so much for making our vacation instead of breaking our vacation!" To the point don't you think?!?


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## Rafi (Jul 11, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Tell me, somebody, is Dan a thin red-headed guy?


Not the Dan I had. I hope it's okay to post this, but if not, I won't be offended if one of the moderators wants to take it down, but here's a picture of Dan and myself reviewing the manifest and preparing to board the Empire Builder in Chicago:


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## Larry H. (Jul 11, 2008)

Its a bit odd here how were trying to get some "service" out of a trip we probably paid upwards of several thousand dollars for!! Of course never having made a large salary myself, it started to feel a bit odd having to pay extra to someone who was making at least twice to three times a year than I did. I realize that isn't the norm for many of our more seasoned travelers.. But having to "bribe" someone in advance for doing the most basic services that should be included with a trip of this length and cost is a concept that seems misplaced. A fair gratuity for a helpful attendant is a nice gesture but even without it they should be doing there Job.

I worked all my life in customer service positions and never got a nickel from a "guest", and never would have expected it.


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Brahmama said:


> We always carry wine with us onboard to enjoy in our sleeper. Does Amtrak provide wine glasses or should we bring our own?


Only if you want plastic ones.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 11, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Brahmama said:
> 
> 
> > We always carry wine with us onboard to enjoy in our sleeper. Does Amtrak provide wine glasses or should we bring our own?
> ...


I understand< if you real nice they'll give you thier finest wine ware, Dixie Cups!

 :lol:


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> _"But again, your attendant was responsible for putting those beds down. Next time hit that call button! And take names and report them if they don't do it and don't offer to do it."_
> Alan, do you ever vary that standard based on circumstances? I disagree with you on the "report it", _for a bed_.


Well first off just to be clear, I personally would never report an attendant because I put down my bed. Unless I've had an attendant specifically tell me that he/she wants me to push my call button when I'm ready (and I have had attendants tell me that), I'll usually just take a wander around the car when I'm ready for bed to see if they are around. That assumes that they aren't coming by regularly to check on me as many do.

If I don't see them during my quick tour and my trips to the facilities to hit the head and brush my teeth, then I'll just do it myself rather than wait.

Now that said, however the primary responsability of a sleeping car attendant is the safety of his/her passengers. The second responsability is to ensure that they get on and off at the correct stop. Their next most important job is to put the beds up and down. If an attendant never at any point asks when you want the beds down, can't be found, and doesn't respond to the call button being pushed two times with a reasonable amount of time in between pushes on the button, as well as another reasonable 5 to 10 minutes after the last push, then yes the attendant deserves to be written up.

If you push the button and they don't come running in the first 30 seconds, when then that's being unreasonable and there should be no letter. If you're trying to get your beds down before 9:00 PM when it is possible that the attendant is still getting meals for those who want to eat in their rooms, then one needs to allow some extra time for them to respond to the call button.

But if you can't find your attendant by wandering around the car, you've pushed the call button more than once, and say more than 25 to 30 minutes has elapsed since the first time you pushed the call button, then yes I think that it's letter writing time. They are getting paid to put those beds down and if some passenger were to be injured doing so, they'd probably be looking for a new job.



Guest said:


> Are you tipping (and adequately) when you first get on so that they know you're expecting a little higher service? I do, EVERY time. AND, since they're not mind readers and my mood or expectations may vary, I let them know upon _first_ encounter what I'd like during the trip. To one, I said, "I'm low maintenance, if I need you I'll come get you". In return I usually get frequent checks (depending on number of other passengers), luggage help, delivery of newspapers, conversational visits, ice refills, "can I get you anything" questions. They also inform about their "out of service" times and locate me within the diner to tell me how close to my stop the train is.I also believe that if I needed help with appearances, I'd get it. There's not a uniformity in their offerings but it suits me.
> Try upping your tip and spelling out your expectations, up front.


I'm sorry while it might get you better service, IMHO one should not be paying upfront for something that the attendant is supposed to be doing in the first place. One tips because one gets good service, not because one hopes to get good service. One day you're going to get burned doing that, you'll have given away your money and the attendant will be laughing in his room about their good fortune.

Now I don't disagree with stating what you expect. There are many attendant that I will do that with, I'll tell them that I don't require much and some take me at my word. Others still seem to come by a few times just to make sure that I haven't changed my mind. But I do think it's helpful to them to know that they don't have to worry about me if they've got a lot of people requesting meals in their rooms.


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> I would say that of the Sleepers I have been in the past two years that most have had pretty good service. One on the Empire Builder had a trainee which seemed to give the regular attendant an excuse to disappear the whole trip. I am afraid its just a sign of the times that service is no longer considered a fact of life with first class or sleeper travel. Considering the way people today avoid doing anything they don't want too, it seems that the majority of sleeping car attendants give it a pretty good try. I will say that the ones that give anything resembling old fashioned Pullman type service is a real rarity. Normally you get bare bones service.. Making the bed, some keeping the coffee urn filled. Its a rare attendant that offers you something or ask if you want something any more. I get particularly aggravated at those that take the stack of morning papers and just toss them on top of the trash can in the hall. Some will put it on your seat as they indeed should, or if they don't have too, its a least a slight feeling of someone trying to do some token bit of service. That seems to be about it now. Gone is the shoe shine which used to happen every night in the old days: Taking charge of your luggage boarding and detraining: Asking if you wished something from the diner such as soda brought to your room; Seeing that the restrooms and and car remained spotless; Brushing off you off, literally on detraining; and just plain acting like they are there to be of service should you wish some.. Usually after the beds are made most attendants seem to disappear!


My experiences seem to differ a bit with yours, including on my most recent trip on the CL and the LSL. On both trips the attendants brought my suitcase to the door prior to arriving at the final stop and then off loaded them first, before letting the passengers detrain. On the Capitol LTD, I did see the attendant cleaning one bathroom and I have to say that the other's at no time ever looked terrible. The shower on the LSL was quite clean, and I could tell that other's had used it, as there were plenty of dirty towels in the bag. Oddly enough though on the CL the shower must have been missed by the attendant as there were almost a dozen used bars of soap in the shower.

And on the LSL, where food isn't available after ALB, my attendant brought everyone in our car a plate full of grapes left over from the wine tasting the night before. I don't know if the other two attendants did that, or even if the crew in the Diner-Lite car did the prep work, but I thought that was a very nice touch and it helped keep the hunger pangs at bay for a bit longer.

Papers on both trains were slid under my door very early in the morning.

Now again, I'm not suggesting that all of the attendants out there are angels, there are clearly some that need to be retrained and some that just need to be let go. But there are many really good ones out there riding the rails.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Its a bit odd here how were trying to get some "service" out of a trip we probably paid upwards of several thousand dollars for!! Of course never having made a large salary myself, it started to feel a bit odd having to pay extra to someone who was making at least twice to three times a year than I did. I realize that isn't the norm for many of our more seasoned travelers.. But having to "bribe" someone in advance for doing the most basic services that should be included with a trip of this length and cost is a concept that seems misplaced. A fair gratuity for a helpful attendant is a nice gesture but even without it they should be doing there Job. I worked all my life in customer service positions and never got a nickel from a "guest", and never would have expected it.


I even tip and bring drinks to my letter carrier and garbage collectors. They honk if my can isn't at the street, wait for me, etc. Guys, you have to watch your attitudes, be a class act yourself regardless of your stature in life and make your expectations known from the getgo. The attendant may not have a clue what you paid for your trip. He does care what your attitude is towards him/her. I'm getting these services on trips that cost far less than yours. You can make yourself a pleasure to wait on or you can be a p.i.t.a.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

_"One day you're going to get burned doing that, you'll have given away your money and the attendant will be laughing in his room about their good fortune"_

It'll work out in the end.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Alan,

Why don't you get one on here to be the other side of this discourse?


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## darien-l (Jul 11, 2008)

WhoozOn1st said:


> Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9."


On a trip from Emeryville to Denver a few months ago, I received the exact same reply from the car attendant when I asked her to make up the bed around 10 pm -- "I don't do anything after 9." Is it in their contract somewhere that they don't have to help passengers after 9 pm?


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> Alan, Why don't you get one on here to be the other side of this discourse?


Huh? :unsure:


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## Rafi (Jul 11, 2008)

darien-l said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> > Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9."
> ...


Hardly, as far as I'm aware. After all, they're required to meet boarding passengers throughout the night.

Rafi


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

darien-l said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> > Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9."
> ...


Absolutely not. They are esentially on duty from the time the train leaves the originating station till it arrives at the terminating station. IIRC, I believe that they are guaranteed 4 or 5 hours of downtime at night. What some do is to trade off with the other attendant, such that one sleeps most of the night on the outbound run while the other works, and then they swap for the inbound run.

But if a supervisor ever heard an attendant tell a passenger that they don't do beds or anything for that matter after 9:00 PM, that employee would find themselves in a retraining program very quickly.

An employee can try to encourage their passengers to do everything before 9 or 10 PM so that they can try to go to bed early if no one is getting on or off the train during the night, but they can't force anyone to do so.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 11, 2008)

darien-l said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> > Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9."
> ...


If on my trip, say the EB or the CZ, where I'm on for two days with an attendant that gave me an answer like that, UUUHHH

That would not be a pleasent trip for either one of us. AND his/her tip wouldn't be the kind you could Spend!!!!

B)


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## haolerider (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Its a bit odd here how were trying to get some "service" out of a trip we probably paid upwards of several thousand dollars for!! Of course never having made a large salary myself, it started to feel a bit odd having to pay extra to someone who was making at least twice to three times a year than I did. I realize that isn't the norm for many of our more seasoned travelers.. But having to "bribe" someone in advance for doing the most basic services that should be included with a trip of this length and cost is a concept that seems misplaced. A fair gratuity for a helpful attendant is a nice gesture but even without it they should be doing there Job. I worked all my life in customer service positions and never got a nickel from a "guest", and never would have expected it.
> ...


You certainly don't have to tip ahead of time to be a class act, you just have to be a civil person, who treats people nicely. Personally, I think you are wasitng your money by tipping mail carriers and garbage men.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Jul 11, 2008)

RailFanLNK said:


> I had a coach attendent that kicked *** and his name was Dan and was from Milwaukee. He was Irish American and noticed my "Ireland" sweatshirt I had on. He was a GREAT coach attendent and even brought back a pamphlet talking about the Irish Festival in Milwaukee. I ended up giving him one of my Irish Voice newspapers and I have never seen him since. He was excellent! I believe I tipped him and I haven't tipped a whole lot of coach attendents if I don't see them much.
> Also, when I travel Amtrak I always carry "thank you" cards with me and put the sleeper attendents tip in that and I tip at the end of the trip. "We" hand write out our thank you and tell them what we liked the best about the service. I know one of my cards on my last trip said, "Amtrak employees attitudes can make or break a family vacation....thanks so much for making our vacation instead of breaking our vacation!" To the point don't you think?!?


Was he thin and red headed?

And, yes, tipping coch attendant is extremely rare, so he must have been very good, as my guy years ago was.


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## wayman (Jul 11, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> And, yes, tipping coch attendant is extremely rare, so he must have been very good, as my guy years ago was.


My favorite coach attendant--who got a nice tip--was Joseph on the SWC. I do know his last name too, and I wonder: is there a way to get a note to him through Amtrak somehow? Now that I will be living near the SWC's route and probably occasionally riding it just to get to ride a train, out and back to LA perhaps, it would be nice to be able to figure out which dates he's scheduled for 3 and 4 and try to travel then. But I have no idea how easy that sort of thing is to figure out, even knowing his full name.

I also remember the fantastic dining car steward's (somewhat unique) first name from that train--Moses. Oddly, he and Joseph work different schedules, as Moses is always on the SWC and Joseph does a 4, 3, 14, 11 cycle based out of LA! So despite their clearly having a good sense of humor around each other and working well together (Joseph took a shift in the diner), they must not be on the same train all that often. I left a thank-you note for Moses, scrawled on the back of my last meal receipt, with a separate tip from the server's on my last meal. Someone's idea above of bringing stationary for that purpose was a good one--I'll do that next time.

Not that I have any objection to taking the SWC with other crews, as I'm sure many of the crew are wonderful. I just remember those two quite fondly.


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## had8ley (Jul 11, 2008)

It's amazing the replies that I have gotten after paper clipping a 20 or better to a business card.


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## had8ley (Jul 11, 2008)

Rafi said:


> darien-l said:
> 
> 
> > WhoozOn1st said:
> ...


This guy and gal sure get around unless it is some sort of Amtrak virus.


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## rogers55 (Jul 11, 2008)

We have never had to set up or take down our own beds.

I would expect it is a liability issue anyone straining their back

or slipping and falling would be likely to sue.

Even the one and only one car attendant that I didn't tip made the bed.

It was on the LSL going from CHI, she made the bed and we never saw her again.

On the return trip it was just the opposite, the attendant got off the train at the SDY platform and called to

us by name. She had even made up name tags for each compartment and baked us cookies.

She got the other persons tip.


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## Rail Freak (Jul 11, 2008)

rogers55 said:


> We have never had to set up or take down our own beds.I would expect it is a liability issue anyone straining their back
> 
> or slipping and falling would be likely to sue.
> 
> ...


WOW, I hope all the stories don't put my expectations out of reach! However, I'm trying to keep my expectations low, but I truely appreciate the difference in OBS attitudes & efforts to do thier job.


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## WhoozOn1st (Jul 11, 2008)

haolerider said:


> You certainly don't have to tip ahead of time to be a class act, you just have to be a civil person, who treats people nicely.


Haolerider's got something here, and I really think this is the best approach to attendants. I try to establish a friendly, working relationship. Doesn't always work, as noted above, but usually does. As a recent example I'll cite Lindsay, from the Tehachapi ride. A rookie, yeah, but also earnest, great attitude, good sense of humor, and professional all around. Helped make a great trip even better.


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## Conductor Passing Thru... (Jul 11, 2008)

wayman said:


> My favorite coach attendant--who got a nice tip--was Joseph on the SWC. I do know his last name too, and I wonder: is there a way to get a note to him through Amtrak somehow?


Sure...

Joseph XXXXXXX

Amtrak LAX Crew OBS

810 N Alameda St

Los Angeles, CA 90012

It's common that passengers send thank you cards, letters, photos, drawings from the kids, etc.

As far as his upcoming schedule, unless he tells you himself, it's next to impossible to obtain.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> But having to "bribe" someone in advance for doing the most basic services that should be included with a trip of this length and cost is a concept that seems misplaced. A fair gratuity for a helpful attendant is a nice gesture but even without it they should be doing there Job.


Wow, you must be a real favorite customer at all your local restaurants!


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## Tony (Jul 11, 2008)

Interesting that the best sleeping car attandant we ever had, and we actually had him for several trips, was named Joseph too. He worked on the Silvers.

I haven't seen him for a while, but I think that's because he retired.

Michelle was the best Dining Car supervisor, but that's before Amtrak vendored them out.


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Tony said:


> Michelle was the best Dining Car supervisor, but that's before Amtrak vendored them out.


There are no vendors working in Amtrak dining cars at either the waiter level or supervisor level, they are all Amtrak employees.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Alan, Why don't you get one on here to be the other side of this discourse?
> ...


Alan,

Get a sleeper car attendant (not the OBS lady gone freight who posts here, but a live working one) to tell you the other side of this issue. I'm sure you guys would probably get humbled.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

haolerider said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Larry H. said:
> ...



I get better service and my trip doesn't get extended through written gripes to headquarters wherever that's located and your's truly is not only frugal, I wrote my first complaint letter in my teens. That worked but as years have gone by I see that there are easier ways to get what you want/need and have seen what good people skills do for your life. As for Postal workers, you would be very surprised what a tip (within the guidelines of the Hatch (?) Act) at the holidays does for your mail service and how frequently they are given. She (letter carrier) also gets cold drinks in the summer. The paper carrier gets tipped as well. If you read these group's publications you'll find that they are instructed to report things they see to social services, frequently find lost children, report crime, help diabetics or others they discover in shock or seizures and rescue elderly who have fallen with strokes, etc., etc. Bet you didn't know that. If you work in a professional office dealing with the public as many years as I have, between Thanksgiving and Christmas the chocolate, wine, liquor, gifts and other palm greasers flow heavily. Even the payroll services show up with quarterly lunches from the best delis around.

Don't be so stingy!


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


Well first let's start with the fact that OBS_Gone-Freight hasn't been gone from Amtrak for all that long and things haven't changed all that much in the two years or so that he's been gone. So his thoughts on this matter are still quite relevant IMHO. And AFAIK he's a he, not a she, although it is possible that I've missed something.

As for the other side of things, not to brag but I think that I've got a pretty good handle on just how hard that job is when one is doing it right. That's why I'll often put down my own bed and not bother the attendant. That's why I'll usually tip an attendant even if I have put down my own bed. I tend to pay attention to things, I've always been that way, and I can tell when my attendant is really busy or really lazy. My curtains are never closed unless I'm actually asleep, so I see how many times they walk by. When I'm in the diner I note how many times they come in to get food for someone.

I'm quite probably one of the biggest supporters of sleeping car attendants, especially when I see people post that they get paid to much and therefore shouldn't be tipped. This forum is littered with posts where I've almost pounced on people who make that assumption that the job is comparable to that of a hotel maid.

That's why in my other post I stated that one needs to allow time for the attendant to respond to the call button. I would never expect an attendant to show up at my room within seconds of my having pushed the button, although there are people that do expect that and will start ringing the bell incessantly if they don't show up within a minute or two. But an attendant who can't find a few seconds within a 30 minute time period to at least quickly run by a room where the bell has been rung to say "I'll be back to you as soon as I can, but I'm in the middle of ______ " IMHO isn't doing his/her job.

All that said, if you know of "a real live working attendant" please encourage them to join up. For that matter, please consider signing up yourself, it's quite painless I assure you.  But since I don't work for Amtrak and never have, I can't order an employee to come here and post his/her thoughts on this matter. I suspect however that OBS_Gone-Freight will chime in here sooner or later, even if you don't value his opinion on this matter.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

_"I can't order an employee "_

... only someone with unrealistic expectations would think they could "order an employee" or think in those terms.

FYI, I have never pushed the button and would have to do a look around to notice which one it is.

I understand that the standard they're to use (from reading somewhere) is to treat passengers as though they were guests in their homes. If some of you were my guests, I would feign a headache to get away from you.... drunk in the hallways... pushing the button multiple times... complaining about the food...etc. Think of it from that perspective for a moment.


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## Tony (Jul 11, 2008)

AlanB said:


> There are no vendors working in Amtrak dining cars at either the waiter level or supervisor level, they are all Amtrak employees.


Then what changed just a few years ago?

Did Amtrak simply fire all the union employees, and replace them all with non-union, but still Amtrak, ones?


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> _"I can't order an employee "_
> ... only someone with unrealistic expectations would think they could "order an employee" or think in those terms.


Excuse me! :angry: You were the one who stated that I should "get a sleeping car attendant" to come here and tell it like it is. As if I had some power to make it happen. I was simply responding to your post when I stated that I have no such power. And it was you who dismissed Amtrak_OBS opinion before it was even offered as inconsequential since he no longer works for Amtrak. As if he’s forgotten what it’s like to be an attendant in just two short years. Maybe if he had left 10 years ago you might have some basis for that comment.

But the duties, the cars, and the expectations haven’t changed in just two years. Things are the same at Amtrak now as they were when he worked there, with the possible exception that perhaps the cars are a bit more full all year now.

Quite frankly I probably have lower expectations than many people who post here, and certainly lower than many people who ride Amtrak. Fact, I've never pushed the call button unless the attendant actually told me to do so. I'm loath to push that button. If I really need something, I either go and get it or do it myself, or I go looking for the attendant if I can't deal with it. Fact, I've actually helped teach a few new attendants how to deal with things. Fact, I've searched out attendants to inform them that they may have a problem with a toilet and have actually stayed to assist them. Fact, I put my own bed down many times rather than take up an attendant's time. Fact, I always wipe down the sink and mirror area when I'm done with the bathroom, regardless of whether I made the mess or whether it was already there. Fact, I've never asked for a meal to be delivered to me because I refuse to place that burden on an attendant. Fact, I've helped attendants fix things in the car with my tools that I carry in my computer bag and I've even taped up a garbage bin that had no bin with my own duct tape to assist an attendant. Heck, I've even tipped a sleeping car attendant who wasn't my attendant, simply because I was impressed that she took it upon herself to help out in an understaffed dining car that was way too busy.

Again, I urge you to actually go and do some reading of the old posts here before you go making assumptions and casting aspersions. I'm one of the most supportive people around for sleeping car attendant's that are at least trying to do their jobs. But I won't tolerate an attendant who is clearly not trying to do their job. And an attendant, who never asked when someone wanted their bed down, can't be found, doesn't respond to a pushed call button after 30 minutes, is an attendant who shouldn't be working for Amtrak!



Guest said:


> FYI, I have never pushed the button and would have to do a look around to notice which one it is.


You'd have to be blind not to notice it since it's the only yellow button in a Superliner sleeper and the only red button in a Viewliner sleeper.

In over 80,000 miles on Amtrak, I think that maybe I’ve pushed the button twice and both times I did it because the attendant told me to push the button when I went to breakfast so that he would know that I was out of the room and he could return things to the daytime configuration. Let me urge you to read that last sentence carefully, *I pushed the button because I was told to do so!*



Guest said:


> I understand that the standard they're to use (from reading somewhere) is to treat passengers as though they were guests in their homes. If some of you were my guests, I would feign a headache to get away from you.... drunk in the hallways... pushing the button multiple times... complaining about the food...etc. Think of it from that perspective for a moment.


And again, if you think that I'm a tough customer, then you better not ever venture into the Amtrak world or for that matter any customer service role because I'm one of the most lenient and tolerant people out there. A real customer will blow you out of the water by comparison to me.


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## ThayerATM (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> Quick poll
> My experiences are almost 180 from most of yours.
> 
> Are you tipping (and adequately) when you first get on so that they know you're expecting a little higher service? I do, EVERY time. AND, since they're not mind readers and my mood or expectations may vary, I let them know upon _first_ encounter what I'd like during the trip. To one, I said, "I'm low maintenance, if I need you I'll come get you". In return I usually get frequent checks (depending on number of other passengers), luggage help, delivery of newspapers, conversational visits, ice refills, "can I get you anything" questions. They also inform about their "out of service" times and locate me within the diner to tell me how close to my stop the train is.I also believe that if I needed help with appearances, I'd get it. There's not a uniformity in their offerings but it suits me.
> ...


This is exactly what my wife and I have done. Tip them well as you enter the room upon boarding, explain your plans, and generally let them know what we will be doing, and when. That includes letting the attendant know that we planned on stepping off for a smoke at every chance.  We've gotten excellent service, and they never missed a chance to do it right the first time. They generally track us down and tell us about short stops, and all the meal calls are there, as are the newspapers, room makeovers, etc.


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## AlanB (Jul 11, 2008)

Tony said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > There are no vendors working in Amtrak dining cars at either the waiter level or supervisor level, they are all Amtrak employees.
> ...


Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, the position of Onboard Service Chief was eliminated in part to save money, in part because some weren't doing their jobs anyhow. There has been no equivalent replacement to that position since that time. Amtrak does still have supervisors that ride the trains, but there isn't one on every single train like there was with the OSC.

The LSA still remains in charge of the dining car and the cafe car, and now essentially assumes authority over the sleeping car attendants and coach attendants too.

Beyond that, the only other change to OBS staff in the dining car has been SDS, implemented about two years ago now, which eliminated the assistant cook position and killed two waiter or SA positions. Because of that elimination, the LSA now also performs some SA duties in addition to their many other duties. On busier trains, and assuming that Amtrak actually scheduled properly, there are two SA's, which does help to ease the burden on the LSA a bit.


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## PRR 60 (Jul 11, 2008)

Guest said:


> ...I understand that the standard they're to use (from reading somewhere) is to treat passengers as though they were guests in their homes. If some of you were my guests, I would feign a headache to get away from you.... drunk in the hallways... pushing the button multiple times... complaining about the food...etc. Think of it from that perspective for a moment.


The standard is for Amtrak attendants to treat passengers like they are customers who paid a pretty hefty price for the services they are there to provide. I am not their guest in their home. I'm a customer at their place of business who has paid for their services.

Amtrak attendants have a pretty tough job, and get paid pretty well to do it (both monetarily and with days off). Plus they get tips over and above that. So, if their job is to make up my bed for sleeping at night and then return it to day mode the next morning, then that is what they should do. I'm a nice guy, most of the time, but people expect me to do my job, and if I don't, I'll get called on it. I expect others to do their job. And if they don't, then there they are slackers and should find another line of work.


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## Konrad (Jul 11, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


On my last two LD trips I observed my Sleeping Car Attendant serving in the diner at dinner and breakfast. I assumed that this was part of SDS and the reason my bed wasn't made up in the evenings and seemed to take ages to be stowed in the mornings.

And speaking of great staff - Epram on the SWC has to be absolutely the best (he got all our American currency when we left the train - next stop Sydney!).


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 12, 2008)

Guest said:


> Alan,Get a sleeper car attendant (not the OBS lady gone freight who posts here, but a live working one) to tell you the other side of this issue. I'm sure you guys would probably get humbled.


Amtrak OBS Gone Freight is a male, first of all. Second of all, he usually has the best insights on "other side" perspectives on OBS of anyone here. If you wish to feel his opinions to be invalid, thats your own business. But I would say the man is a pretty nice guy and definitely qualified to respond to your request.



Guest said:


> Don't be so stingy!


I can be a stingy man when it comes to buying things. I like to save my money. However, people who know me will tell you I'm a very generous tipper. I enjoy fine service very much, its such a rare thing these days. I am willing to pay top dollar if I receive it. But I do not wish to bribe it out of someone.

We give our garbagemen a christmas gift every year. In our town, they come right down to your garage to pick up up to two garbage cans, and they do a right good, neat job of it. So we put a nice sized hunk of cash into an envelope the last pick up before christmas, and tape it to a garbage can. Thanks for the good work this year, guys.

I tip large if I receive good service, whether I can afford to or not. If a waitress does her job, she gets 15%. If she runs around like a madwoman making sure I am happy, I give more. I've given as much as 30% if I think its called for. I don't walk into a restaurant asking for good service out loud or with a promise of a good tip. I expect it, damnit. If I get it, you will receive a token of my appreciation.

If a sleeping car attendant, because the wish to do a good job, because they are a good worker, and because they are a genuinely nice person, do a good job, I will tip them accordingly. I can bribe anyone into putting on their plastic smile and treating me like a king, or atleast most people. (It wouldn't swing me, but I really have very little desire to make a lot of money.) I don't want that. I travel Amtrak to avoid it, because its pandemic on airlines.

If an attendant does there job, I'll give them $5/person/night. If they make a point of doing a good job, I give way more. $10/person/night is done. I've given more in the past. I'd rather not tip, as a general rule. I'll live with mediocre/poor service, and find that a perfectly acceptable reason to save me $10. If its really bad, I might write Amtrak. If someone earns there tip, I pay it.

But hell will freeze over before I give someone their tip in an effort to make them do their specified job, especially one I am quite capable of doing myself!


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

"Second of all, he usually has the best insights on "other side" perspectives on OBS of anyone here. "

I challenge you to find his/her earlier (years) posts on here when he/she was trying to make it on Amtrak and note the stress in his/her writing. Amtrak only carries passengers. It wasn't freight causing the stress, it had to have been a combo of passengers, management and/or other unspecified. That person now has the stress of dealing with freight, but freight doesn't write management to nitpick about insignificant (in the grand scheme) issues, seemingly to almost guarantee a voucher that costs Amtrak monies. So, Alan, in _your_ travels you should have made some great friends among the sleeper attendants by this point. Ask one, _currently_ handling passengers, to provide the opposite side of these conversations.

2nd

And, yes, I do have one's telephone # and email but believe that person has the ability to influence in another area of life that is far more significant than teaching many of you how to behave on a public form of transportation.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

_"The standard is for Amtrak attendants _"

If you wish to change the standard, get a job in Amtrak management.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

Just FYI, the pre-tip idea came from another forum on train travel and I tried it. I tip about 1/4 to 1/2 of the total tip up front when my bags are handled and introductions made, "can I get you anything talk" and the departing tip is the one for quality of service. You can sometimes read what's going to happen in those first few moments (as they probably can with you). It's (the end tip) the one that varies. I've read stories of people who will push the button to get the attendant to turn on the light or change the flow of ventilation when they can jolly well do this themselves and after repeated trips down the hall, stiff the attendant in the end. I want him/her to know in advance that they are going to be treated equitably for delivering good service and to let them know if there are any special circumstances. And, personally, I'd rather they be getting their sleep so that they're fully functioning in the unlikely event of an accident.


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## Alice (Jul 12, 2008)

I've been following this discussion to be sure I tip appropriately on a trip next week.

1. I've always gotten good service on Amtrak, and sometimes get great service. This may be because I learned a long time ago that people are easily manipulated by frequently smiling at them and saying thank you often.

2. There are other ways to get across the idea that you are a tipper besides pre-tipping. For instance, when boarding or shortly thereafter: ask to break a 5 or 10 into ones "for the dining car" (often they refer me to someone else).

3. Service can be improved enroute by how you treat people, all of the people, on the train. You want everyone to be friendly and in a good mood, so all staff members are enjoying the trip, so they give everyone good service, so all the passengers are in a good mood, so all the staff members are enjoying the trip, you get the idea. Many years ago I had a game: how many people could I get to smile back if I smiled at them? The goal was to increase it each time. It was a good game anyplace children weren't really welcome.


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## AlanB (Jul 12, 2008)

Guest said:


> "Second of all, he usually has the best insights on "other side" perspectives on OBS of anyone here. "
> I challenge you to find his/her earlier (years) posts on here when he/she was trying to make it on Amtrak and note the stress in his/her writing. Amtrak only carries passengers. It wasn't freight causing the stress, it had to have been a combo of passengers, management and/or other unspecified. That person now has the stress of dealing with freight, but freight doesn't write management to nitpick about insignificant (in the grand scheme) issues, seemingly to almost guarantee a voucher that costs Amtrak monies. So, Alan, in _your_ travels you should have made some great friends among the sleeper attendants by this point. Ask one, _currently_ handling passengers, to provide the opposite side of these conversations.


First, if you think that you have a point to prove, then do the research yourself. Don't look for other's to prove you right by doing the research for you.

Second, had you done the research you would have quickly realized that you have confused two different people. You are referring to WindyCityLSA who is indeed female and did indeed leave Amtrak due to the stress of the job. However, by her own admission, she felt that it was she herself that couldn't handle the rigors of the job. And she wasn't unhappy with all aspects of the job either. And she didn't leave to go work at a freight RR.

So you've invalidated Amtrak_OBS_Gone_Freight’s (AOGF) opinion and publicly insulted him here without doing your research. AOGF does know what he's talking about and he didn't leave Amtrak because he couldn't handle the job. He loved the job! He left because thanks to SDS which cut staffing in the dining car, he couldn't hold a job with his lower seniority than others, so he got furloughed. He took a job with a freight company because he felt that he actually needed to pay his bills. Not because freight doesn't write complaints.

Although freight does have it's own pressures too, like needing to be far more aware of his own personal safety and other's now, like getting the job done on time such that the freight is delivered on time and the company doesn't get penalized for a late delivery.

And no in all my travels I've never given out my info to some attendant hoping that he/she would stay in contact with me. Frankly I feel like I'm bragging to say "I run an Amtrak website, so please come visit", so I don't do that. I will also say that in all my travels, I don't think that I've ever actually bumped into the same sleeping car attendant twice. There are attendants on Acela who do know me though and recognize me on sight. In fact one of the best is a guy named Wilson who not only remembers me, he even remembers what kind of wine I drink. Even after not having seen him for almost two years, he still remembered that I drink white. Of course it's also quite likely that he also remembers that I tip very well too.



Guest said:


> 2ndAnd, yes, I do have one's telephone # and email but believe that person has the ability to influence in another area of life that is far more significant than teaching many of you how to behave on a public form of transportation.


I'm pretty sure that I know how to behave on public transportation. Do you know how? :unsure:

And if someone is so important that they can influence others in any area of life, then surely they can spare 5 minutes to come and teach the unwashed masses that you seem to think we are. Maybe you should first try asking that person rather than assuming.

After all if I can hold down a full time job running my company where I teach people to use their computers and setup networks and can still find time to volunteer my time to help run this site, as well as On Track On Line, and moderate on a few other sites, it can't be that hard. And I have influenced many people by answering their questions here, questions that they couldn't find answers to elsewhere, even from Amtrak.



Guest said:


> _"The standard is for Amtrak attendants _"
> If you wish to change the standard, get a job in Amtrak management.


He never said he wanted to change the standard, never even implied it. He only said that he expects the attendants to live up to the standards put out by Amtrak.

I urge you to please start reading carefully what people are saying and to stop putting words into their mouths or translating things to your advantage. Again, if you had done any research on this site and a few others, you'd find that I'm one of the biggest supporters of the OBS crews when they are at least doing their jobs. I'm not talking about them being stellar and outstanding; I'm just talking about doing what they are paid to do.



Guest said:


> And, personally, I'd rather they be getting their sleep so that they're fully functioning in the unlikely event of an accident.


And with that one statement you've now made it quite clear that you don't really have any understanding of an attendant's duties, as they are almost never going to get much sleep since they are responsible for ensuring that passengers get on and off the train at the correct stop, even if said stop is in the middle of the night.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

_"I've never given out my info to some attendant hoping that he/she would stay in contact with me."_

I didn't give out MY info. He gave out the info. The subject was for a mutual hobby.

" biggest supporters of the OBS crews "

You sound like your 1st instinct is to call/write Amtrak at the drop of a hat instead of looking at the whole picture and considering that maybe the writer's expectations are a little overboard (do you think they're going to tell you on this board that they were hung over, in a bad mood, pmsing or whatever) for what essentially IS a transportation sleeping car (not a cruise line) with an attendant. Haven't I read that Amtrack doesn't use the word, "First Class Sleeper" but "sleeper class" on some cars? Have you considered that maybe the attendant got a bad case of the flu or worse, onboard, from dealing with passengers and perhaps there's a shortage and that individual has to take a break... or any number of scenarios. It's not like there's a replacement hiding out on the train, just in case. These people ARE human. Getting by on little sleep makes me a tad cranky too and while I'm accustomed to being "nice" under stressful circumstances and delivering difficult news, there are times when they, too, are sitting there smelling the toilet fumes for far longer than I, suffering along with you and perhaps need a good puke but have to put on a happy face to the tune of some passenger who likes to see how many times he/she can make the attendant jump up and down. I don't count their number of passes, BTW, nor do I keep up with what they are doing. It's none of my business.

Re: the previous post about the identification by name of an attendant when only one side is presented. Whoever gave up the California address (in this thread) knew exactly who was being discussed. Don't you think that same situation would apply to that post awhile back naming an employee. One of my attendants talked about several other attendants that I had had. I've had one 3 times. Theirs is a much smaller world that you think. Don't they have some board with all of the names on it that shows who's next (don't know what it's called) for their route? When these employees are written about, perhaps sometimes unjustly, they may be then called to defend themselves in front of management (that keeps being referred to as shortsighted). They may have to drag in their union and get "put on the street". The conductor on the northeastern train (Vermonter?) comes to mind as another example of someone who said, "enough is enough".

_"they are almost never going to get much sleep since they are responsible for ensuring that passengers get on .."_

How many times on here has it been written that they trade off to get some semblance of sleep by covering another car? I don't want to disturb what they are getting.

Alan, your block says you live in NY. If you're like the 2 (former) NYC neighbors that live nearby I can see the difference we'd have in agreeing on this point. I cringe when I see one older lady stand on one corner, point to the other and loudly call them, "NY Hillbillies" for all of the neighborhood to hear. One likes odd statues in the front and the other likes a golf course lawn.

Add some balance by getting the other side of the story. You appear to be around more attendants than the rest of us. _You_ make a contact that has the inclination to handle this.

_"I'm pretty sure that I know how to behave on public transportation. Do you know how? _"

Low blow, Alan. It's transportation. I treat it like such and not my personal party car. I don't hover around the lounge. If they (attendants) come by to talk, we talk. I usually try to find older couples to chat and eat with if I'm by myself. Think of Whooz and his most recent sociable attendant. Whooz treated her with decency and received it in return and probably got a great deal of gratitude for showing his ability to be human.

"_standards put out by Amtrak.."_

... which don't seem to be totally clear or public but do have a subjective element that is translated by both the whims of the passenger and the employee. That poster did not say what those standards were (we believe that putting down the bed is one, we don't know if there's a "by what time" requirement. My point, is communicate up front what you want. A complete listing of "the" standards do not appear to be available to us. They cannot read your mind. See if what you want is possible. I've walked on and said, "I'm very tired and am going to sleep.." ..still got checked on. I've initially tipped, had my luggage handled and had the attendant let me know his out of service time (when he was going to the diner to chitchat with his fellow employees). Got checked on later. Always a newspaper somewhere.

"And if someone is so important that they can influence others in any area of life"

I think more highly of this individual that this group would. It's "an" area, not "any". I wouldn't doubt that those who ride the impressive attendant's train also keep that information to themselves.


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## AlanB (Jul 12, 2008)

Guest said:


> " biggest supporters of the OBS crews "
> You sound like your 1st instinct is to call/write Amtrak at the drop of a hat instead of looking at the whole picture and considering that maybe the writer's expectations are a little overboard (do you think they're going to tell you on this board that they were hung over, in a bad mood, pmsing or whatever) for what essentially IS a transportation sleeping car (not a cruise line) with an attendant. Haven't I read that Amtrack doesn't use the word, "First Class Sleeper" but "sleeper class" on some cars? Have you considered that maybe the attendant got a bad case of the flu or worse, onboard, from dealing with passengers and perhaps there's a shortage and that individual has to take a break... or any number of scenarios. It's not like there's a replacement hiding out on the train, just in case. These people ARE human. Getting by on little sleep makes me a tad cranky too and while I'm accustomed to being "nice" under stressful circumstances and delivering difficult news, there are times when they, too, are sitting there smelling the toilet fumes for far longer than I, suffering along with you and perhaps need a good puke but have to put on a happy face to the tune of some passenger who likes to see how many times he/she can make the attendant jump up and down. I don't count their number of passes, BTW, nor do I keep up with what they are doing. It's none of my business.


Hmm, first time I’ve been accused of that. Usually people accuse me of not being supportive enough of a poster’s bad tale, criticizing me for not believing a word of their story. This is the first time I’ve ever been accused of calling Amtrak at the drop of a hat.

And just for the record, telling someone that they should push the call button once, wait 10 to 15 minutes before pushing it a second time and once again waiting another 10 to 15 minutes, and then still not getting any results is hardly the drop of a hat. Whether you like it or not, their job is passenger service. If an attendant can’t find 30 seconds just to run by a passenger’s room to tell them that he/she will be with them shortly over the course of 30 minutes, then they aren’t doing their job and deserve to be reported.

An attendant telling someone that he doesn’t do beds after 9:00 PM is an attendant who isn’t doing his job. Would I ever ask an attendant to put down my bed after 11:00 PM? No. But that doesn’t change the fact that technically I do have that right. I for one certainly wouldn’t report them for refusing such an outrageous request either.

In fact, in all my years of riding, I’ve never reported bad service to Amtrak. I have reported good service, but I’ve never reported bad service even though I probably should have.

If they really are sick, then it is up to the rest of the crew to try to cover for them to the best of their ability and to inform the passengers that their attendant is sick. That last point is critical, they don’t have to tell us just what is wrong, but they do need to inform people that there is a problem such that people can understand why service is suffering and their needs aren’t being met.

For the record, I don’t sit in my room counting how many times an attendant walks by, but I do notice the difference between an attendant that I see many times and one that I hardly ever see.



Guest said:


> Re: the previous post about the identification by name of an attendant when only one side is presented. Whoever gave up the California address (in this thread) knew exactly who was being discussed. Don't you think that same situation would apply to that post awhile back naming an employee. One of my attendants talked about several other attendants that I had had. I've had one 3 times. Theirs is a much smaller world that you think. Don't they have some board with all of the names on it that shows who's next (don't know what it's called) for their route? When these employees are written about, perhaps sometimes unjustly, they may be then called to defend themselves in front of management (that keeps being referred to as shortsighted). They may have to drag in their union and get "put on the street". The conductor on the northeastern train (Vermonter?) comes to mind as another example of someone who said, "enough is enough".


Hmm, funny that you seem to remember that topic on the Vermonter but seem to have conveniently forgotten that I was the first one to defend the crew. Let me jog your memory. I’ve highlighted the most important part for you.



AlanB said:


> How certain are you that it was the same conductor? You don't say how where you got on and off, much less where the blind lady did. That train I believe sees 4 sets of conductors and engineers. So it is possible that she told the first conductor who got off many stops before she did. Now I'm not suggesting that it wasn't irresponsible of that first conductor to make sure that he informed the second conductor and so on as needed, but occasionally communication do break down.
> We also don't know if the conductor at that point in time wasn't otherwise distracted by some other problem, emergency, or perhaps even someone else with a handicap that required even more attention from him, than did the blind lady.
> 
> *Clearly something went wrong, but I do think that we need a bit more evidence in this situation before we condemn the crew.*


Yes, without a doubt good people do get reported from time to time. Either because they were having a bad day or the passenger was having a bad day or simply making unreasonable requests. But a good employee will usually have a few good reports in his jacket to counteract the occasional bad one. And in most cases, Amtrak management can usually figure out from how a complaint was worded as to whether the complaint was warranted or not.



Guest said:


> _"they are almost never going to get much sleep since they are responsible for ensuring that passengers get on .."_
> How many times on here has it been written that they trade off to get some semblance of sleep by covering another car? I don't want to disturb what they are getting.


Many do trade off, but not all can do so and in some cases I’ve seen where two attendants don’t play nicely with one another and therefore refuse to trade off. However even with trading off, they still really don’t get all that much sleep. And of course one never know if it’s your attendant’s night to sleep or not, unless they happen to tell you.



Guest said:


> Alan, your block says you live in NY. If you're like the 2 (former) NYC neighbors that live nearby I can see the difference we'd have in agreeing on this point. I cringe when I see one older lady stand on one corner, point to the other and loudly call them, "NY Hillbillies" for all of the neighborhood to hear. One likes odd statues in the front and the other likes a golf course lawn.


Frankly I’m not quite sure what to make of that, except that you’ve once again insulted me.



Guest said:


> Add some balance by getting the other side of the story. You appear to be around more attendants than the rest of us. _You_ make a contact that has the inclination to handle this.


Again I fail to see why it’s my job to make the contact. First, you’ve already got one. Get him or her to sacrifice 5 minutes of their life to come and explain things to us. Second, we’ve already got a contact on here Amtrak_OBS. Someone whom you’ve dismissed as inconsequential.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen him post a reply telling someone to report an employee, both when he was still working at Amtrak and since he left.



Guest said:


> _"I'm pretty sure that I know how to behave on public transportation. Do you know how? _"
> Low blow, Alan. It's transportation. I treat it like such and not my personal party car. I don't hover around the lounge. If they (attendants) come by to talk, we talk. I usually try to find older couples to chat and eat with if I'm by myself. Think of Whooz and his most recent sociable attendant. Whooz treated her with decency and received it in return and probably got a great deal of gratitude for showing his ability to be human.


Well you’ve come on here without registering, insulted me, put words in my mouth, and accused me of things that I never have done or would do. Did you not expect me to fight back? In fact, had you said the things that you did against any other member here, your post would have been deleted by me for insulting them. It’s only because you’ve attacked me and I prefer to not appear to be using my powers that your posts are even still here and this conversation continues.

And I’m always polite, human, and decent. I thank waiters just for refilling my glass of water, not to mention anything else they might bring me. On my last trip this past weekend on the LSL, not only did I thank James an SA in the Diner-Lite car each time he refilled my glass with wine at the wine tasting, I made sure to tip him a few bucks as I left.

He ran after me to shake my hand and thank me for the tip. He told me that I was the only person that evening in a full car that had bothered to leave a tip. Maybe I was a fool for leaving a couple of bucks, but he had provided me with good service and a smile each time he refilled my glass.

He also shook my hand the next morning after breakfast and after lunch, once again thanking me each time for my tip and for how I had treated him.

I don’t walk around like I own the train or with a chip on my shoulder, but I do expect people to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Note, I said the best of their ability. That means that I look at and consider all factors. If I’m in a dining car with two tables of passengers and I’m getting terrible service, I’m probably going to be a bit upset. If I’m in a packed dining car and getting terrible service, I’m not going to be very upset if I can see that they are clearly trying to get to everyone in a timely matter.

So please stop making assumptions about me and what I would or wouldn’t do when you’ve already made it quite clear that you can’t keep who did what and who didn’t straight.



Guest said:


> "_standards put out by Amtrak.."_
> ... which don't seem to be totally clear or public but do have a subjective element that is translated by both the whims of the passenger and the employee. That poster did not say what those standards were (we believe that putting down the bed is one, we don't know if there's a "by what time" requirement. My point, is communicate up front what you want. A complete listing of "the" standards do not appear to be available to us. They cannot read your mind. See if what you want is possible. I've walked on and said, "I'm very tired and am going to sleep.." ..still got checked on. I've initially tipped, had my luggage handled and had the attendant let me know his out of service time (when he was going to the diner to chitchat with his fellow employees). Got checked on later. Always a newspaper somewhere.


Actually many of the standards are quite clear on Amtrak’s website.



> Sleeping car passengers are entitled to a range of hotel-like amenities, including fresh linen and towel service, complimentary bottled water and daily newspapers.


Hotel-like amenities would include making up and putting away the beds. If an employee fails to put down the beds, then how could he/she possible have provided fresh linen to the passenger? And I’m quite certain that even if they aren’t available to us, that Amtrak has exacting standards that the employees are well aware of.

I’m certain of that, because I’ve seen the manual of exacting standards that are supposed to be adhered to in the dining cars under SDS. I haven’t seen the manual for sleeping cars, but I’m sure that it’s every bit as detailed.

And to return to the original poster who started this thread, he was never asked what time he wanted the beds down. This has nothing to do with the employee being a mind reader. This is a question that they are supposed to ask when they come to your room just after the trains departure from the station to give you an orientation of the room, answer questions, and introduce themselves. They are also supposed to ask three questions. One, when do you want your beds down? Two, do you want a wake up call? Three, do you have any questions for me?

No clairvoyance is needed if they perform that part of their job.



Guest said:


> "And if someone is so important that they can influence others in any area of life"
> I think more highly of this individual that this group would. It's "an" area, not "any". I wouldn't doubt that those who ride the impressive attendant's train also keep that information to themselves.


What you think of this individual or what anyone here might think of them is irrelevant with regard to their sharing their views of their job. If he/she is a sleeping car attendant ask them nicely to come on here and support your views. We’re not asking them to provide their home telephone number so that we can call them up or to provide us with their schedule. Of course they’d probably have to either provide some form of proof either publicly or to one of the Administrators here on the board.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 12, 2008)

Guest said:


> "Second of all, he usually has the best insights on "other side" perspectives on OBS of anyone here. "
> I challenge you to find his/her earlier (years) posts on here when he/she was trying to make it on Amtrak and note the stress in his/her writing. Amtrak only carries passengers. It wasn't freight causing the stress, it had to have been a combo of passengers, management and/or other unspecified. That person now has the stress of dealing with freight, but freight doesn't write management to nitpick about insignificant (in the grand scheme) issues, seemingly to almost guarantee a voucher that costs Amtrak monies. So, Alan, in _your_ travels you should have made some great friends among the sleeper attendants by this point. Ask one, _currently_ handling passengers, to provide the opposite side of these conversations.
> 
> 2nd
> ...


Dude, Amtrak OBS Gone Freight is a friend of mine, and I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop insulting him, as a personal favour. And as a favour from me to you, I'd also suggest you refrain from insulting him, Alan, and anyone else you seem to think you are fit to insult. It makes you seem like a five year old child in kindergarden recess, and your level of apparent intellect suggests you aren't. My minor descriptive jibe aside, I think I can continue this discussion without insulting you. I'm sure Alan is capable of the same, as are most other board members. Can you give it a shot?

In a company as large as Amtrak, I am sure things go wrong and good employees get fired. With the exception of cost cutting layoffs, though, I think this is relatively rare. I have been in business for myself and I know full well good employees don't grow on trees. Believe me, I know. Working as a manager at an amusement park concessionaire, I could spend half a day figuring out ways to fire lazy, obnoxious, rude, and inept employees in a union environment. Its difficult. And I'm talking about fools who botched every job, cursed and insulted customers, and spent so much time doing absolutely nothing, I'd cut their salary in half if I was being fair. The one time one of the few good employees I had under me told me they were thinking of quitting, I all but got down on my knees begging them to stay.

I got complaints from rude, obnoxious, lazy, and inept customers about some of my better employees. "Yes m'am, sorry m'am, thats unfortunate m'am. I wish I could give you a refund, but I can't. Sorry, M'am." and round file the complaint about them not being waited on hand, foot, and mouth. Amtrak, given its beaurucracy, isn't going to round-file complaints, but they know enough to ignore them. One "This employee is exceptional" counters out five "This employee wouldn't immediately get me 2 lbs of complimentary caviar and a bottle of Tattinger '63!" easily. "Our attendant, Harry, wouldn't come to adjust the temperature in my room at 2AM, after I shrilly called his name down the hall five times, forcing me to annoy other passengers! Then another passenger came out of his room and threatened to shove the vent down my throat if I didn't shut up, so Harry was causing both of us problems!" Amtrak's management will take a look at that complaint, try hard not to laugh, fail, and put in the file, forgetting about it.

When it comes to firing employees, Amtrak is only going to go through the considerable effort if it is actually warranted.


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## wayman (Jul 13, 2008)

To correct another completely faulty statement by our guest,



Guest said:


> Re: the previous post about the identification by name of an attendant when only one side is presented. Whoever gave up the California address (in this thread) knew exactly who was being discussed.


I am quite sure the guest poster who supplied that address (whose guest-handle suggested they may have been a conductor) had no idea who the attendant I asked about was. I said I knew the attendant was based in Los Angeles. The address given, which anyone working for Amtrak would have easy access to, was the address of the Amtrak crew office at Los Angeles Union Station.


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## PetalumaLoco (Jul 13, 2008)

Wayman

Yes, I thought that was a little weird too.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Jul 13, 2008)

Guest_Meme_* said:


> Is it becoming the norm for sleeper car passengers to set up their own beds?
> We recently traveled on the Empire Builder from Chicago - Portland, in a roomette. Our attendant dropped early by early on to introduce himself and to acquaint us with features of the roomette and to tell us about location of the shower, toilets, dining car, etc., etc. He didn't mention the bed set-up, nor did we think to ask at the time - we assumed that he would come around later and ask when we wanted the service.
> 
> Well ... as time marched on, and 10:45 rolled around, we finally took looked at the instructions and did it ourselves. (My DH, a card-carryin' liberal Dem, is uncomfortable calling for a personal service if he's capable of handling it, which is why we didn't call the attendant. Had the attendant offered the service up front, we would have arranged the time with him -- which is what we did on another leg of our cross-country trip. But I digress.)
> ...


WOW!!! This has most definitely turned out to be a very interesting topic! I will just reply to the original poster in this first posting!

Anyway, you should not have had to make your own beds unless that was actually your choice. "Turn down service" is one of the many services which are available to a sleeping car passenger. If you chose to turn/place your bed down on your own, then that is your own doing. Amtrak's policy states that the attendant should provide that service mainly because it is a service which is supposed to be provided, but also due to the fact sometimes the beds can be difficult raise and lower (especially the lower beds which are made by collapsing the two seats flat) thus creating a safety issue. It appears to me that you handled the situation accordingly. As a customer, I would have handled the issue in the same fashion by just cutting an amount off of the tip that I had originally intended for the attendant (just as you had done). If the issue was a huge deal, then you would need to at least write a letter of complaint and then go from there. Being it is not a huge deal, I would just continue to leave it alone. But at least you know how you'll handle future trips/situations which could be similar.

I can only think of a few things to explain why you did not recieve the service. First, the Superliner sleepers are very difficult to work with just one person as the attendant in that car. But with a good system in place it can be done. There are roughly fourty four beds in the Superliners compared to the thirty beds in the Viewliner sleepers, which can get overwhelming especially if each bed is used! So if the employee was a newer employee, it is possible that he just may not have his "system" tweaked out well enough yet to work the Superliner sleeper properly! That's one possible scenario. Second could be a simple act of the attendant "forgetting about you." That has happened to me a couple of times myself while I was at Amtrak, though not with "turn down" service. And third maybe your attendant was one of those attendants who is only "gonna do the minimum amount" of work needed to get through the trip! The fact that you rode from Chicago to Portland (which is end to end) leads me to believe that the "third scenario" may apply in your case. But I wasn't there, so I can't really make a judgement call here as I am not aware of the actual situation with the train as well as the OBS crew itself. There are other possible scenarios, too. But we'll stop here with these for now.

If this happens to you again, then just go to the diner and find the LSA (or find another attendant) and either ask them to help you or find your attendant. Unless your actual attendant is on his/her downtime, then they should be available to assist you as you are the paying customer! If you can't find any OBS personel then you should seek assistance from a conductor who will find an attendant for you. Once in a while there is an Operations supervisor on board, but at night they tend to be in bed as well. Anyway it goes, don't be afraid to ask for assistance while onboard. That is what the OBS people are there for! The T&E folks (conductors and engineers) are responsible for operating the train, and the OBS folks are responsible for providing the bulk of the customer services in order to allow the T&E folks to focus on the train's operation.

OBS gone freight...


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Jul 13, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> The standard is for Amtrak attendants to treat passengers like they are customers who paid a pretty hefty price for the services they are there to provide. I am not their guest in their home. I'm a customer at their place of business who has paid for their services.
> Amtrak attendants have a pretty tough job, and get paid pretty well to do it (both monetarily and with days off). Plus they get tips over and above that. So, if their job is to make up my bed for sleeping at night and then return it to day mode the next morning, then that is what they should do. I'm a nice guy, most of the time, but people expect me to do my job, and if I don't, I'll get called on it. I expect others to do their job. And if they don't, then there they are slackers and should find another line of work.



Aright PRR 60,

Thanks. That pretty much sums it all up on my end! And that is how I performed my job duties at Amtrak and how I do now at my current job as well!

OBS gone freight...


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks Lion (and you too Alan) for coming to my defense. I am not going to respond to that person, as y'all have pretty much taken care of that for me. They appeared to be a little mis-informed, and I think you pegged it with mixing me up with Windy City LSA. And yes, I am a guy and she is a gal. And for the record, she left Amtrak because she was furloughed, too.

Anyway, I don't do this much as I tend to ramble but here goes...

ABOUT OBS SERVICES AT AMTRAK...

OBS is the customer service component in place for "the customers" in order to provide them with a comfortable trip. That is all of the OBS dept primary responsibilty! They have very little to do with the actual operation of the train! That component is the responsibilty of the T&E dept (conductors and engineers). OBS personel are also responsible for ensuring they maintain a safe enviroment both for their own work areas as well as the public areas. They are also in charge of ensuring that the traveling paying passenger is aware and strictly follows the safety rules which apply to them! That is one area the customer will not have much leeway! Amtrak OBS, T&E, management, etc folks will not put up with a passenger/customer who will not follow the safety rules which apply to them. And it is the responsibilty of the entire crew (T&E and OBS) to see to it that the passengers are aware of those rules (safety, emergency evacuation procedures, ect) first and foremost. That does not give any member of the crew a license to "power trip," but those issues must be made in a firm manner sometimes. After that, OBS folks are supposed to advise the passengers of what is available to them (basic services such as food, restrooms, smoke stops, etc), and to make other anouncements as well.

The train crew should actively keep in communication with the passengers the best they can do so at all times. That is one of the points I always tried to focus on as when I kept the passengers "in the loop" so to say, on board business always flowed smoothly for the most part at least in my work area. On then other hand, passengers should be sure to "listen" when announcements are made, and ask questions when they are unsure of anything! I can't stand it when folks (either employees or passengers) assume! It gets us all in trouble almost everytime!

ABOUT SLEEPING CAR SERVICES - OBS dept responsibilty

If you are traveling as a sleeping car passenger on any full service Amtrak train you can expect....

1) to be greeted and welcomed aboard

2) to be informed of your responsibilties regarding safety and emergency evacuation procedures, and where the attendant can be found (except in downtime)

3) to be informed of your room's features, location of the dining car and lounge car, locations of shower and public restroom facilities, train OT status, etc

4) to be informed of the location of bottle water, coffee, ice, juice, etc.

5) to be provided with turn down service (have your beds lowered/made)

6) to be provided with wake up service and a morning newspaper when it is available

7) to be provided with room make up service (raise the beds usually while you go to breakfast)

8) to be provide with any other reasonable request for service (such as in room meal service, extra linen, etc)

9) to be treated with respect as a paying customer, and overall provided with proper customer service for the duration of your trip

The OBS employee (sleeper attendant) should expect... (with a reasonable approach)

1) that the passenger will observe all safety rules which apply to them

2) that the passenger will communicate with them of what their needs are as much as possible

3) that the passenger should be reasonable in their requests for service and the timing of that service

4) that the passenger may or may not provide the customary gratuity (which is only customary and NOT required by Amtrak)

The OBS crew in most cases is on duty from the beginning of the train's journey till the endpoint (terminating station). Only the engineers and conductors (T&E dept) switch out crews due to the FRA hours of service laws. There are a few occasions where there are OBS personel who work what are called "swing jobs" which board at one station, detrain at another, and swing back home on another train.

At night... the service attendants and LSAs are on their downtime usually between the hours of 2200 and 0530 (2300 or 2400 and 0530 for lounge LSA usually), but they get no less than four hours of undisturbed rest (by union agreement) in the case of time zone changes. The train attendants in both the sleepers and the coaches are entitled to (by union agreement) no less than four hours of undisturbed rest in a company provided location (usually a roomette) for each night on board the train. However, this is not "supposed" to shortchange the paying customer of service at anytime! Downtimes are supposed to be staggered so that an attendant will be available should a passenger need service. If a passenger cannot find an attendant, then they should locate a conductor (or LSA if one is still awake). Attendants who are on duty are supposed to monitor their work areas every thirty to fourty minutes or so (if we want to be technical with the rules).

About tipping....

Tipping at Amtrak is soley up to the passenger. It is not required at all, and it should not be implied that it is by any crew member! However OTH in my opinion, the passenger should tip accordingly for outstanding service. And that is service that is above and beyond the call of duty. If you want to stick to the old customs, then do so on your own perogative. Back in the old days, the sleeping car porters (the old attendants) relied almost soley on their tips similar to waiters in restaraunts now. They were employed mostly by the Pullman corporation, and made very little if any base pay. They had to "hustle" for their pay, and most took pride and did good work. It was the same in the dining and lounge cars in those days, too. Today the OBS dept employees are payed a competitive union wage, and we do not rely on tips. They are nice to have, but the OBS folks should be OK with it if the passenger decides not to. It is not customary to tip the T&E dept employees (conductors, etc)

If you like to tip then here are some decent guidelines....

Sleeper...

1) $5-$10 per night for great service

2) 15%-20% per meal (whether in diner or additional to TA for in room meal service)

3) $1-$2 for each bag handled (if TA provides complete bag service to the door... or to the redcap if they provide it)

Dining car...

self explanatory...

Lounge car...

self explanatory (though I really wonder about the tip cup being there is no waiter staff in there unless the LSA is just really cool)

Coach...

1) $1-$2 per bag (if TA provides full bag service to door... or to the redcap if they provide it)

2) 15%-20% for at seat meal service

General.... anything passenger decides. Just remember tipping is not required by Amtrak. No one should have to bribe their way for better service, but if it works for you then no one should tell you not to.

That's all... I am tired and going to bed...

OBS gone freight...


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## jackal (Jul 13, 2008)

wayman said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > And, yes, tipping coch attendant is extremely rare, so he must have been very good, as my guy years ago was.
> ...


Sure. If you can find out where the SWC crews are based (it's either LAX or CHI, and I'm sure someone on here knows), send a letter or package to Amtrak's offices in that city, c/o the employee's name, and it should make its way there.

I had a great conductor who took me up to the cab on an Acela run between BOS and NYP (I've linked to the pics here before). He was quite interested in Alaska, and the engineer had lived in Alaska in a previous life, too. In fact, they were the two guys that inspired me to check into the Alaska Railroad's job listings, and I got hired on as a brakeman a couple of months after that trip.

As a thank you, I sent a couple of Alaska Railroad coffee mugs (one for him and one for the engineer) in a package to Amtrak, South Station, Boston, MA, c/o Conductor [name], along with a note and my contact info. I received an email a few weeks later from the conductor, and we've had a couple of back-and-forths over the years.

It's not a guarantee, but it should work.

Edit: didn't notice the second page until after my reply. Looks like Guest_Conductor Passing_Thru covered what you need in post #43.


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## AlanB (Jul 13, 2008)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> First, the Superliner sleepers are very difficult to work with just one person as the attendant in that car. But with a good system in place it can be done. There are roughly eighty seven beds in the Superliners compared to the thirty beds in the Viewliner sleepers, which can get overwhelming especially if each bed is used!


Actually I've got to correct you here OBS, there aren't 87 beds in a Superliner car. There are 14 roomettes, one of which is the attendant's room, 5 bedrooms, 1 accessible and 1 family. So that's 14 * 2 = 28; 5 * 2 = 10; 2; and 4. Grand total 44 beds.

But that's still quite a handful of beds to be made up and taken down.


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## PetalumaLoco (Jul 13, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:
> 
> 
> > First, the Superliner sleepers are very difficult to work with just one person as the attendant in that car. But with a good system in place it can be done. There are roughly eighty seven beds in the Superliners compared to the thirty beds in the Viewliner sleepers, which can get overwhelming especially if each bed is used!
> ...


Maybe it _seems_ like 87 beds...


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Jul 13, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:
> 
> 
> > First, the Superliner sleepers are very difficult to work with just one person as the attendant in that car. But with a good system in place it can be done. There are roughly eighty seven beds in the Superliners compared to the thirty beds in the Viewliner sleepers, which can get overwhelming especially if each bed is used!
> ...



Ooops... that is one big typo! I have no idea where I came up with that one. I know better than that! I guess that is not too bad for not proof reading the posting at all. I edited for some spelling, but thanks for pointing that one out, Alan. I guess I should just go along with the person above me here who says, "it sure does feel like 87 beds" when you have all of those 44 beds to make up (especially when you have room re-sells en-route)! Because it really does feel like it!

OBS gone freight...


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## Meme (Jul 14, 2008)

.......

_I can only think of a few things to explain why you did not recieve the service. First, the Superliner sleepers are very difficult to work with just one person as the attendant in that car. But with a good system in place it can be done. There are roughly eighty seven beds in the Superliners compared to the thirty beds in the Viewliner sleepers, which can get overwhelming especially if each bed is used! So if the employee was a newer employee, it is possible that he just may not have his "system" tweaked out well enough yet to work the Superliner sleeper properly! That's one possible scenario. Second could be a simple act of the attendant "forgetting about you." That has happened to me a couple of times myself while I was at Amtrak, though not with "turn down" service. And third maybe your attendant was one of those attendants who is only "gonna do the minimum amount" of work needed to get through the trip! The fact that you rode from Chicago to Portland (which is end to end) leads me to believe that the "third scenario" may apply in your case. But I wasn't there, so I can't really make a judgement call here as I am not aware of the actual situation with the train as well as the OBS crew itself. There are other possible scenarios, too. But we'll stop here with these for now._

........

Well, I really seem to have opened a can of worms with this topic -- it's been fascinating to read the replies (but a little irritating to read the snarky attacks by a guest--bad form, and a slap on the wrist to you!)

Thanks, OBS, for your lengthy and thoughtful response above. I think the third option is the case. We were / are civil, respectful travelers, not hung-over or in a bad mood, as one poster suggested might have been the case. (In fact, we were thrilled to be taking our first coast-to-coast RT trip, and we had a wonderful time--what awesome countryside the EB took us through--twice  ). But we truly got the impression that this attendant preferred to do the minimum (or perhaps less than). He wasn't rude, he just simply didn't seem all that interested in his passengers.

It's done now, and it didn't affect our overall positive impression of Amtrak in the slightest. Thanks to all who posted helpful & informative replies.


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## VentureForth (Jul 14, 2008)

Guest said:


> Quick poll
> My experiences are almost 180 from most of yours.
> 
> Are you tipping (and adequately) when you first get on so that they know you're expecting a little higher service? I do, EVERY time. AND, since they're not mind readers and my mood or expectations may vary, I let them know upon _first_ encounter what I'd like during the trip. To one, I said, "I'm low maintenance, if I need you I'll come get you". In return I usually get frequent checks (depending on number of other passengers), luggage help, delivery of newspapers, conversational visits, ice refills, "can I get you anything" questions. They also inform about their "out of service" times and locate me within the diner to tell me how close to my stop the train is.I also believe that if I needed help with appearances, I'd get it. There's not a uniformity in their offerings but it suits me.
> ...


Woah woah WOAH! This is bassackwards. First class treatment is the EXPECTED level of service when paying for a first class ticket (everything points to the fact that sleeper accomodations are, in fact, first class).

What we seem to be forgetting here is that tipping is a gratuity; A "THANK YOU" for performing at or above your expectations. It should never be compulsory, and it should always be earned.

Do you turn down your own bed at a $200 per night hotel?

I get real sick of employees who think that they are entitled to their job and only have to show up to get their check.

PS: Sorry for coming late to this party. Haven't even gone through the whole thread yet, but this comment sorta chapped my hiney.


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## VentureForth (Jul 14, 2008)

darien-l said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> > Finally located the guy, and asked if he would do the bed thing around 9:30 p.m. "I don't do anything after 9."
> ...


Is there anyone you can report this behavior to onboard? Does the conductor care? I know he's more concerned with the operation of the train and the revenue, but who would you complain to about poor service?


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## Tony (Jul 14, 2008)

AlanB said:


> And just for the record, telling someone that they should push the call button once, wait 10 to 15 minutes before pushing it a second time and once again waiting another 10 to 15 minutes, and then still not getting any results is hardly the drop of a hat. Whether you like it or not, their job is passenger service. If an attendant can’t find 30 seconds just to run by a passenger’s room to tell them that he/she will be with them shortly over the course of 30 minutes, then they aren’t doing their job and deserve to be reported.


The Call Buttons still work? :lol:

Honestly, if I pressed the button, and the attendant didn't show up, my first thoughts would be that the Call Button is broken, not that the attendant is goofing off. At that point, I would get up and go looking for him/her.

To me, that is a "plus" since I look for any reason to get up, and walk around.


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## Tony (Jul 14, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> Do you turn down your own bed at a $200 per night hotel?


Why, yes I do.

To me, it is more of a negative to have a "stranger" wandering into my room just to do something I can easily do for myself. Gee, do I have to stay dressed and "presentable" for an evening visit by the maid?


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## Rail Freak (Jul 14, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Quick poll
> ...


OH YEAH? Tighten your safety belt!!!


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## GG-1 (Jul 14, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> I get real sick of employees who think that they are entitled to their job and only have to show up to get their check.
> PS: Sorry for coming late to this party. Haven't even gone through the whole thread yet, but this comment sorta chapped my hiney.


Aloha

I am a union Steward and unfortunately this kind of attitude does the most damage and causes more lost work opportunities than anything else.


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## GAT (Jul 14, 2008)

Amtrak OBS-Gone -Freight's summary a few posts back is an excellent primer. May I suggest that the Administrator post it on the Amtrak FAQs and First-Time-Rider Info page?

I agree with him that pre-tipping is definitely a person's choice and should not be dismissed out-of-hand. To me, it's all about stating your expectations and then backing that up with a show of sincerity. I don't think it's bribery if done with sensitivity; rather, it's a show of respect for the person and his/her job.

At the risk of being flamed for telling too many nostalgia stories on this site, here's one more. I visited a wealthy uncle in England in 1967 prior to embarking on a 40-day steamer trip to East Africa. He advised me to give my cabin steward and bath steward 50% of their tips at the beginning, to tell them I was expecting a memorable voyage, and that I was sure they might want some pocket cash for their shore trips along the way. Well, every evening, my wife was first to be escorted to the bath, and every morning, flowers and a bowl of fresh fruit appeared in our stateroom. Friends would ask, "How come you get fresh fruit and flowers? We don't!"

I realize pre-tipping won't necessarily be as effective on a two-night trip, but I also don't see how it will do any harm. It's simply a partial thank-you in advance.


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## VentureForth (Jul 14, 2008)

GG-1 said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > I get real sick of employees who think that they are entitled to their job and only have to show up to get their check.
> ...


I'm sorry, GG-1. I mean no disrespect. Please understand the context of my note. I don't have a problem with union workers - know plenty of them and most are hard workers. But unfortunately, some unions offer such a hedge of protection to the point where _some_ employees literally can sit back and collect a paycheck with minimal work. As a Steward, I'm sure that you would agree that outside of indiscriminate furloughing, the dismissal of a union employee is very very difficult for almost any reason.

When I worked at Wal Disney World, a bus driver was dismissed for sleeping on the job. The union got his job back claiming that he was praying. Honestly, it takes a huge personnel file to lose a job. There is no constitutional protection or guarantee for anyone to have a job. Many states have made it as close to an entitlement as legally permissible.

I'm all for representation for fair wages and fair working conditions. But I'm also very much in favor of personal responsibility and expecting employees to work to the level of expectation required of them.

I work hard and could be terminated without cause at any time. I keep my chin up and will try to keep my employer from having a reason to terminate me. It is beyond reasonable for a coach attendant to stop servicing those whom their job exists for at an arbitrary 9 PM. But that person will not be terminated any time soon.

Mahalo...


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## GG-1 (Jul 14, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> GG-1 said:
> 
> 
> > VentureForth said:
> ...


Not for an instant was i upset with you. I was referring to the lazy worker, that creates the problems I must fix somehow. And how such lazy worker harms everyone in the craft unit with the black eye such slackers make.

Small world, I worked in Disneyland to pay for College.

Aloha

Eric


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

_"I agree with him that pre-tipping is definitely a person's choice and should not be dismissed out-of-hand. To me, it's all about stating your expectations and then backing that up with a show of sincerity. I don't think it's bribery if done with sensitivity; rather, it's a show of respect for the person and his/her job."_

Thank you, George, for stating this. You expressed the intent, well. I don't make a show of it (which is why I try to avoid changing out bills on a train- instead come on prepared). They bring my bags in from the platform and stow them. I slip money into their hand before they turn around. They say, thanks, and leave, checking back later. If the car is crowded or they may be tied up with more strenous passengers I do the final tip when they have the bags at the door, same way, no fanfare. I tip both coming off and on the coach car- usually for the luggage assistance. The attendant who helps embark may not be the one helping on the debark (?). In Charlotte, an attendant from a train going in the opposite direction in the middle of the night walked over to do the baggage lift (and I travel light- 2 medium size rollers).... Let me add to the list of presents from my services to others: museum shop gifts, expensive flowers, nice lunches, English scarf, notes to my employers (never a complaint!). As a 16 year old grocery store clerk there were patrons who made a point of slipping cash to each of us at the holidays.... Let's journey to another country's rr. We get great service in Paris as well. (My spouse practices good relational skills with service workers.)


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 16, 2008)

Guest said:


> (My spouse practices good relational skills with service workers.)


:huh: :blink: :unsure:


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## jackal (Jul 17, 2008)

Umm, I think GML was being silly. We sorta do that around here. (Actually, most forums I participate in have a lighthearted sense of humor like that--it's pretty normal online.) I think you took it a bit too seriously. I got a little chuckle out of it, anyway...


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## PRR 60 (Jul 17, 2008)

Our Lion friend is OK. A little irritating at times, but my kids are a little irritating at times, and I still like them. He has a lot to say, and he's even right once in a great while.


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## Tony (Jul 17, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Our Lion friend is OK.


Yep, he is. 

GML did accurately quote. Yea, possibly taken out of context it could be read as being a bit insulting. But then again, the spouse of a unnamed anonymous poster, isn't really attacking anyone specifically. I mean, if the ID of the poster is completely unknown, their spouse must be even more unidentifiable.


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## printman2000 (Jul 17, 2008)

Okay, I get up early on the train and would like to convert my room back to seating from bedding. However, I never know if I should do this or not. Every train I have been on has only been one night on that train so I know the attendant will have to change the sheets. I feel like if I put it all up, they will have to put it all back in sleep mode to change out the sheets. I do not want to create more work for them, so what should I do? Just to continue to lay on my bed (even thought I would prefer it be a seat) until the "normal" times for themn to change them?


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## Tony (Jul 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Okay, I get up early on the train and would like to convert my room back to seating from bedding. However, I never know if I should do this or not.


On the Viewliner, I always do my own "converting". I drop the top bunk down soon after we board, as my kid uses it as a play area ("tree fort"). That evening, after he goes to sleep, I finally convert the lower area into my own bed.

In the morning, I convert my area back to two seats, and we leave the top bunk down until we disembark.

Not one Attendant ever said a word to me.


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## Tony (Jul 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Just to continue to lay on my bed (even thought I would prefer it be a seat) until the "normal" times for themn to change them?


The "normal" times are when you are at diner, and when you are at breakfast.

If that is great for you, then I would make sure the Attendant knows when you are going to the dinner car ("please change my room now").

If that is not a good time for you, then I would again make sure that the Attendant knows that, when you are going to the dinner car ("please leave my room alone").


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## printman2000 (Jul 17, 2008)

Tony said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Just to continue to lay on my bed (even thought I would prefer it be a seat) until the "normal" times for themn to change them?
> ...


Well, I am really only asking about the conversion back to seating. Should I do it myself when I am up early(possibly creating more work for the attendant) or just wait till he does it (usually while at breakfast).


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## AlanB (Jul 17, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > printman2000 said:
> ...


Most attendants don't put the seats back down to change the sheets and blanket. Most will make up the upper bed (if necessary) first, then they'll put the lower bed's mattress up on the upper bed and proceed to put the new sheets and blanket on the mattress while it's on the upper bunk. This is easier than making up the mattress down below and then having to throw the thing up top without making a mess of it.

So that said, you may still find that some attendants will be a bit upset with you if you do return the room to its daytime configuration, but most won't.

Of course it still is their job to do it, so you kind of are making their job easier when you're the paying customer. But if you really can't wait to have your seats back and don't want to find the attendant, I'm not sure that there is a good reason for you not to convert back to daytime mode.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 17, 2008)

jackal said:


> Umm, I think GML was being silly. We sorta do that around here. (Actually, most forums I participate in have a lighthearted sense of humor like that--it's pretty normal online.) I think you took it a bit too seriously. I got a little chuckle out of it, anyway...





PRR 60 said:


> Our Lion friend is OK. A little irritating at times, but my kids are a little irritating at times, and I still like them. He has a lot to say, and he's even right once in a great while.





Tony said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > Our Lion friend is OK.
> ...


Based on the following quotes (and thanks for the defense, guys  ), I am going to assume that our Guest derived more insult from my.. uh, symbolism... than I meant him to.

Guest, I have never met your wife, and if I have insulted her, then I am very sorry. I was intending to get a laugh. It was an oddly worded statement that was quite conducive to the pot shot I took. It was intended to make you giggle, roll your eyes, laugh, groan, or some or all of the above. So as I said, I'm sorry if it was taken the wrong way.


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