# NARP's 50th Anniversary



## jis (Aug 7, 2017)

NARP is throwing a big party for its 50th anniversary, in Chicago early in November (Nov 2 - 5)

See https://www.narprail.org/events/rail-nation-chicago/

I was looking forward to it, until I started calculating the cost that is. Turns out that I can pretty much do a round trip to India in Coach for the cost of the Hotel, Registration, Gala Dinner etc. etc. all put together, even before I add in the cost of transport to get there and back. Which is now giving me a bit of a pause. What are the rest of y'all involved with NARP planning to do?

I might still make it there, staying at a cheaper hotel or some such. We'll See. But wow! It was a bit of a shock!


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## pennyk (Aug 7, 2017)

I looked at the price of the gala dinner and was taken aback. I am only semi-seriously thinking about going.


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## the_traveler (Aug 7, 2017)

I could not believe the cost of the dinner  unless it includes at least 5 lobsters!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 7, 2017)

Old saying from JP Morgan:

"If you have to ask how much something costs you can't afford it!"


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## RSG (Aug 8, 2017)

The dinner cost was off-putting to me as well, and it made me wonder--aside from the five lobsters which it surely must include in the price--if the expected attire is equally as snazzy. If so, this means packing additional clothes to wear essentially once, or, in the extreme, renting formal wear. So I've booked passage (to Union Station instead of India) and preliminary hotel reservations an an ORD-area hotel in my price comfort range, but have yet to tie up the $200+ in non-refundable registration fees. Since I'm obviously not alone in the breathtaking reaction to the Gala Anniversary Dinner cost, I'm comfortable in skipping it when it comes time to pull the trigger on registration. Obviously there could be a fair number of people doing the same in which to arrange "anti-banquet" dinner plans with.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to it!


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## keelhauled (Aug 9, 2017)

$225 registration fee?


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## RSG (Aug 10, 2017)

The registration fee in and of itself isn't so outlandish; I attend several conferences a year and $200-275 is about average, I would say. Another conference every other year which I attend is about $100 more than that. That is without ticketed events, such as meals and non-sponsored receptions. All of the above events operate on a cost-recovery basis in one of the top 25 cities in the US (including Chicago). I would imagine that the RailNation event is operating on a similar basis. Another organization I belong to actually uses their annual conference as a fundraising event, with a fee of around $75-85 (without meals), though in much smaller venues than places like Chicago. From what I've seen, ultra-professional conferences, where most of the attendees will have an advanced or terminal degree (such as the American Medical Association or American Bar Association) are in the neighborhood of $500 or so.

Where NARP probably could do a better job is in communicating the value received for the cost of registration (as well as that of the Gala Anniversary Dinner). There's a preliminary schedule out, but it's not hugely specific other than the standard "fun for the whole family". Contrast that to two of the conferences I've attended where the opening keynote at one was Anderson Cooper and the closing session at another was Hillary Clinton, both included in the registration fee. Granted, not every conference or event can have a marquee name (or does), but if you know in advance that the odds are good of having a worthwhile event or speaker, it generates both interest and a willingness to overlook what might otherwise be considered steep costs.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 10, 2017)

I tried to look up the registration page and was denied access to the site by my computer, so I know where I rate. I will sit on the RiverWalk and wait for you all to bring me free snacks  .

I'm not clear who is sponsoring this--is Rail Nation a group of its own, and NARP members are just going for fun?

Or is it NARP itself charging those amounts?

If the first, that's fine. If the second, in my opinion, that does not give NARP a good reputation for including everyone--it reinforces the stereotype that advocates (in general) are rich people who have lots of money and free time and don't connect with the real working world.


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## jis (Aug 10, 2017)

It is NARP's 50th Anniversary shindig which is being sponsored exclusively by NARP, under a banner name of their choosing. It is being run by a convention organizing outfit, I forget their name, under contract from NARP

I have no idea why you can;t get to the registration page, since I can without identifying myself as anything to do with NARP.


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## jebr (Aug 10, 2017)

The link is blocked by my company's firewall due to a potential security threat. I'm not sure if it's an overzealous firewall or what, but it's using the OpenDNS technology.

I do think the price is a bit too high for what's being advertised, especially since it doesn't seem to be especially geared towards industry professionals. If they want grassroots advocates to attend, my gut instinct is that the price needs to drop down quite a bit (maybe down to $99 with a $39 or $49 one day pass) in order to entice people, and/or show that there's a fair amount of "big names" giving talks/seminars during the conference. The gala dinner also seems to be really, really expensive. I honestly wonder how many people have decided to register for it. Maybe it's a fundraiser, but it still seems too high even in that context.

I could easily take the Builder or a flight down to it, but I highly doubt I'll go despite the largest expense being the registration cost. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.


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## bretton88 (Aug 10, 2017)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I tried to look up the registration page and was denied access to the site by my computer, so I know where I rate. I will sit on the RiverWalk and wait for you all to bring me free snacks  .
> 
> I'm not clear who is sponsoring this--is Rail Nation a group of its own, and NARP members are just going for fun?
> 
> ...


Judging by the discounted rates for NARP members, my guess would be NARP of setting these rates.
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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 10, 2017)

I'm at work, so it's my company's firewall blocking it, just like jebr's.

I agree with the idea of the one-day passes.

I went to a Gala dinner once years and years ago at an editing conference, and it was the low point of the whole few days--long, boring speech and impossible to leave early without being rude. Much more fun to just go out on the town with your friends.


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## jis (Aug 10, 2017)

I am hoping that if I register late enough there will be no decision left to be made regarding the Gala Dinner


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## RSG (Aug 10, 2017)

bretton88 said:


> Judging by the discounted rates for NARP members, my guess would be NARP of setting these rates.


Without knowing any of the behind-the-scenes organizing of the event (disclaimer), I'm guessing that the contract with the event planning company [WorldTek Events] includes a flat fee plus a 'cut of the door', ie, a percentage of each individual registration. That contract presumably went by the green shades types in the organization and then they determined the registration cost. I'm sure someone somewhere said "There's no way we're losing money on this!" and then that factored into the eventual cost.

The problem arises in knowing the total costs versus the total number of attendees. So in effect, it's the old shopkeeper's dilemma: how many units of _X_ can I sell at what price/s in order to make a profit (or in this case, presumably, break even)? There are ways to estimate that, but at the end of the day it's still a guess. I'm betting that the powers that be were being pessimistic on the number of attendees and the costs and thus the eventual registration fee amount.


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## RSG (Aug 10, 2017)

jebr said:


> The gala dinner also seems to be really, really expensive. I honestly wonder how many people have decided to register for it. Maybe it's a fundraiser, but it still seems too high even in that context.





Mystic River Dragon said:


> I went to a Gala dinner once years and years ago at an editing conference, and it was the low point of the whole few days--long, boring speech and impossible to leave early without being rude. Much more fun to just go out on the town with your friends.


The gala dinner *is* really, really expensive. That's what piqued my curiously about the expected attire. For the conferences I usually attend, banquet tickets for plated meals served at-table are in the $85-95 range. That may even include an overhead for a scholarship fund or some other fundraising effort. This includes venues such as the take-it-or-leave-it captive audience pricing of McCormick Place as well as other Loop hotels like The Palmer House. I will allow that those prices may actually include a sponsor subsidy, but there's no reason NARP couldn't have done something similar ("The 50th Anniversary Gala Dinner, sponsored by Siemens").

As for the contents of the dinner, well, lobster fans will probably be disappointed, but it will be a decent meal and presumably, in addition to the speaker/s, there will be entertainment of some sort, such as a swing or jazz band and a cash bar (and yes, for that price, one would expect an open bar). I think it will be a fun event, just not $179 worth of fun.


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## jis (Aug 10, 2017)

I am still debating between going to the thing at all, or going to the meeting but skipping the dinner extravaganza.

BTW, do we get AG points for the money spent? Or is that just for the membership fee?


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## RSG (Aug 10, 2017)

jebr said:


> I do think the price is a bit too high for what's being advertised, especially since it doesn't seem to be especially geared towards industry professionals. If they want grassroots advocates to attend, my gut instinct is that the price needs to drop down quite a bit (maybe down to $99 with a $39 or $49 one day pass) in order to entice people, and/or show that there's a fair amount of "big names" giving talks/seminars during the conference.


 Right. I've not attended a conference in the past 20 years that did not have tiered pricing of some sort. It boggles my mind to figure out how many attendees they are expecting. In my view, you can't really determine what the final registration cost should be until you can somewhat gauge the number of attendees. One way to do that is to offer an Early Early Bird discount. So in this instance, using the $225 base registration fee, a super early bird fee might be $99 before May 31st. It would be non-refundable, but transferable before a certain point in time. This would be a preliminary gauge of interest in the event and would get your die hard base to commit ("It's only a hundred bucks, plus if I find out I can't get off work that weekend, I'll give my ticket to Jeb."). Once you knew that your base was interested, you could start planning on other arrangements and things like the size of the venue needed for the opening reception. [To that end, a discounted reception ticket could also be offered.]

Building on the above, the regular early bird registration would span from June 1st to August 31st and be around $150 for members. This would give people the summer to think about it and possibly commit, thus giving another rough body count. By this time, the details of the event should be lined up so more info can be offered to potential registrants and be used to further promote the event ("Friday Highlight: Amtrak President & CEO Wick Moorman"). From September 1st on, the regular price would apply until say, October 31st. Events involving separately priced meals would close earlier, since most venues want a final count ten days prior to the event. I would make the early bird and regular registrations refundable (with a 20-25% penalty fee) up until October 15th and all registrations transferable once until November 1st. This gives a comfort level in committing to registering without feeling they've completely flushed money down the toilet if they are unable to attend for whatever reason.

Once the early registrations come in, then breakdown pricing can be offered. I would go $50 for a day pass and say, $90 for a two-day pass (registrant's choice of days). This would be offered in advance and on-site. Exhibits-only pass would be $25 for the entire weekend. Kiddos 12 & under would be admitted free to the expo when accompanied by paying adult. Other events not capacity-controlled would be offered as a walk-up admission fee on a cost-recovery basis. Cross-promotion (has anyone even thought of this?) would start around October 1-10 with a rented display in CUS and perhaps heavily-trafficked METRA venues like Ogilvie Transportation Center.

I'd also either raise the non-member registration fee, or further discount the member registration. In the two conferences for a single organization I attend each year, the non-member registration is a hefty $150-175 above the member rate. It doesn't pay to attend the conference without being a member (which is a base rate of $65 or so). I would also make membership an option during the registration process.

Having helped organize events and conferences before, as well as attending my fair share, I realize that it's not easy and is more often an art rather than a science. Still, you can do things which reward your existing membership, increase your membership base, and overall create enthusiasm for the event as well as the organization and the mission. Based on the early information provided for the RailNation event, there is certainly room for improvement.


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 10, 2017)

i've been thinking about attending this event since I won't need a hotel room, just a Metra ticket, but the details are rather vague. I'll probably wait until specific speakers, programs and guided tours are announced before actually putting down my money. This could be a very exciting, very informative event, but I just don't know yet. I also don't think I'll be plucking down $150 for the banquet, no matter who the speaker is.


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## Eric S (Aug 15, 2017)

RSG said:


> Where NARP probably could do a better job is in communicating the value received for the cost of registration (as well as that of the Gala Anniversary Dinner). There's a preliminary schedule out, but it's not hugely specific other than the standard "fun for the whole family". Contrast that to two of the conferences I've attended where the opening keynote at one was Anderson Cooper and the closing session at another was Hillary Clinton, both included in the registration fee. Granted, not every conference or event can have a marquee name (or does), but if you know in advance that the odds are good of having a worthwhile event or speaker, it generates both interest and a willingness to overlook what might otherwise be considered steep costs.


Yep. I have been tentatively planning to attend but will not make any definitive plans until I see a more detailed schedule.


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## CHamilton (Aug 15, 2017)

I'm as anxious as everyone else to see more details. I understand we should be getting more information in the next couple of weeks.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 15, 2017)

Did NARP just win some big infrastructure improvements or HSR funding? Because this is the sort of lofty exuberance I'd expect to see at the height of a professional organization's activity and influence. It's not what I'd expect to see from a relatively small and scattered organization of volunteers with modest means and limited influence focused on niche goals that are still struggling to find meaningful traction in today's political landscape.


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## CHamilton (Aug 26, 2017)

Join us in Chicago to celebrate 50 years of passenger rail advocacy! Details are being updated frequently at the NARP website. https://www.narprail.org/events/rail-nation-chicago/


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## RSG (Aug 26, 2017)

Thanks for the nudge to check out the schedule update, CH! Nice to finally see some substance to the schedule...


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 27, 2017)

Not really helpful.

Just a list of people they asked to stop by.

"CONFIRMED & INVITED SPEAKERS/PRESENTERS"

Let see some names of people who are going to be there. Very pricey event.


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## RSG (Aug 27, 2017)

I would think that the named persons are the "confirmed" presenters and the "invited" ones are the generic representatives from Brightline, Texas Central, FRA, etc. I would be surprised if that was not the case, as when planning events the rule is _not_ to overpromise and underdeliver, but rather the opposite if at all possible.


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## jis (Sep 2, 2017)

After careful consideration I have arrived at the conclusion that I don't see adequate ROI commensurate with the expense. So I am bailing. Hotel reservation is being canceled and transport ticket is going into voucher for future use for something more productive.


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## bretton88 (Sep 4, 2017)

jis said:


> After careful consideration I have arrived at the conclusion that I don't see adequate ROI commensurate with the expense. So I am bailing. Hotel reservation is being canceled and transport ticket is going into voucher for future use for something more productive.


If you're cancelling, then the ROI must be really bad [emoji1] 
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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 5, 2017)

bretton88 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > After careful consideration I have arrived at the conclusion that I don't see adequate ROI commensurate with the expense. So I am bailing. Hotel reservation is being canceled and transport ticket is going into voucher for future use for something more productive.
> ...


In addition to a low ROI this event also seems to have some rather questionable optics. What exactly are we celebrating? Decades of reductions in service and aging hardware? Budget battles that are as tedious and contentious as they've ever been? The simple passage of time? Why don't we save the really big celebrations for really big wins rather than focusing on some arbitrary window of time?


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## jis (Sep 5, 2017)

bretton88 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > After careful consideration I have arrived at the conclusion that I don't see adequate ROI commensurate with the expense. So I am bailing. Hotel reservation is being canceled and transport ticket is going into voucher for future use for something more productive.
> ...


Each individual has their own factors to determine their ROI. For me it just isn't there. That does not necessarily mean that is the case for everyone.


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## bretton88 (Sep 7, 2017)

jis said:


> bretton88 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


Right, it was not meant as a criticism. More pointing out that if one of our more knowledgeable and involved AU members has decided the event is not worth it, then it's a huge red flag that the event is definitely not worth it for the more casual members here.
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## jebr (Sep 7, 2017)

I'm still a bit confused as to why it's significantly cheaper for a government employee to attend this than it is for a NARP member to attend. If it's supposed to be a NARP celebration/conference, why not make the most attractive offers to NARP members - the people who support the organization month to month (or year to year?) While there's certainly people in government that are trying to advance the same items NARP is trying to advance, it's not as universal as those who are NARP members and have already given money to the organization.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 7, 2017)

I agree Jeb.

But as a Retired Govt. Employee who attended many events on Uncle Sam's Dime,almost all such Programs,including Travel, offer Special Governnment Rates.

Government per diem isn't much, you certainly don't live the Life of Riley on the Road as a Civil Servant. ( Officials are another Story!)


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 7, 2017)

jebr said:


> I'm still a bit confused as to why it's significantly cheaper for a government employee to attend this than it is for a NARP member to attend. If it's supposed to be a NARP celebration/conference, why not make the most attractive offers to NARP members - the people who support the organization month to month (or year to year?) While there's certainly people in government that are trying to advance the same items NARP is trying to advance, it's not as universal as those who are NARP members and have already given money to the organization.


Not only is it more expensive for you, the fact that you're paying your own way is being advertised to the people who actually matter (corporate sponsors)...



> Who Will Be Attending Rail Nation?
> 
> Officials from state & regional Departments of Transportation
> 
> ...





> Why Participate in Rail Nation?
> 
> Be an active part of the citizen advocacy movement advancing high speed
> 
> ...


Paying serious money to put myself in a position where I'm the one being lobbied makes little sense to me.


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## neroden (Sep 14, 2017)

jis said:


> NARP is throwing a big party for its 50th anniversary, in Chicago early in November (Nov 2 - 5)
> 
> See https://www.narprail.org/events/rail-nation-chicago/
> 
> ...


Well, I'm going, but my stocks have been doing *very well* this year (well enough to pay for an extension on my house), so it's not feeling expensive to me this year.

(Flying to India isn't an option for me since we don't fly, and this is still a lot cheaper than a round trip on the Queen Mary 2. And I have to stay in fancy hotels anyway in order to get cotton sheets, and go to everything-made-from-scratch restaurants to get food without guar gum. So it's ending up comparable to the price of a typical trip to Chicago for me. Unfortunately, that's my life with allergies. In addition, I have plenty of other reasons to visit Chicago.)

Also, if they're going to try to lobby *me*... well, I've got some very definite opinions about the publication of ingredients lists which I would love to share with Amtrak's management before I have to hire a lawyer to sue Amtrak. Which I may do in 2018 (I'm quite busy this year).

From what I know of gala dinners at conventions, they're always really expensive and intended to some extent as a fundraiser. Always. There's a reason they're broken out separately. So honestly, unless you're feeling flush this year, skip that.

Regarding the convention price... maybe someone should ask Jim Matthews why they don't have different prices depending on how early people registered. It's a good question.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2017)

Yup my portfolio performance will be able to fund this, a trip to India, a trip to the UK and then some. The issue was finding enough vacation days or taking days off without pay. Turns out that through a turn of fate two days that were unavailable for this has become available, so chances are looking better. But I will hold off on registering till later since there is no point in unnecessarily tying up money for months for no reason.

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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2017)

Richard Anderson now confirmed for 2 November...

https://narp.z2systems.com/np/clients/narp/viewOnlineEmail.jsp?emailId=0087aa7ade363f9070bbfb592477b2f20m613943008&secureIdCustomer=1&


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 15, 2017)

Ryan said:


> Richard Anderson now confirmed for 2 November...


Which sadly show the list of people that we have seen were invited and not confirmed.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 15, 2017)

> *Opps...We got a little ahead of oursleves in our previous message!*
> 
> *Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson's participation in RailNation Chicago is still being finalized.*
> 
> ...


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 15, 2017)

It just gets better....


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## NorthShore (Sep 17, 2017)

So dinner is at Alinea?


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 22, 2017)

I have no idea what they are celebrating, besides perhaps the ditching of Capon- which is worthy of such, I suppose.


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## CHamilton (Oct 4, 2017)

NARP is now offering a reduced "students and young advocates" registration rate for the RailNation Chicago event. Please tell your friends. https://www.narprail.org/events/rail-nation-chicago/


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## the_traveler (Oct 18, 2017)

I was just looking at the site, and I think they must like the price of $149. The gala dinner is $149. The daytime trip to Milwaukee in a dome car is $149. The later trip to Milwaukee is $149.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2017)

So many $149 that I won't be spending


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## neroden (Oct 23, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I have no idea what they are celebrating, besides perhaps the ditching of Capon- which is worthy of such, I suppose.


Heh. They'd never say that out loud, but uh... the number of people I saw at the Denver NARP meeting and the ESPA meetings congratuating Jim Matthews for replacing Capon was very large. The organization has become quite evidently more effective (specifically at deploying lobbying power toward Congress) since Matthews took over.


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## rtabern (Oct 26, 2017)

We were just asked to narrate the afternoon private car trip on the Hiawatha on Saturday, November 4th... and then the optional trip to South Bend on the South Shore on Sunday, November 5th. Hope some people off the Forum are riding and will come out and say hello to us! This is part of the 501( C)(3) non-profit that we manage, the APRHF Rail Rangers.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Oct 26, 2017)

Good for you.

9 days before event, nice that your able to respond positively to the short notice request.


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## CHamilton (Nov 3, 2017)

Lots of good content in Chicago. One important message: It’s about local support. https://youtu.be/2AVXnc_t9UI


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 3, 2017)

An important message is that it's about local support. Unfortunately NARP chose to draw attention to grassroots support with a $375 speaking engagement and gala dinner, a cost most of our membership would struggle to rationalize, and a mindset which might explain why NARP is sometimes accused of being comically tone deaf.


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## jis (Nov 4, 2017)

A non-Amtrak person from the press who has inside knowledge shared the insight that once all the Diners are delivered all single level LD trains will have Diners. There may be some difference in the actual food service in the Diners based on trains they are on. This was in an answer to a specific question regarding Diners on the Silver Star.

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## Bob Dylan (Nov 4, 2017)

Thanks jis! Good news!The Silver Starvation will turn back into the Star and the Lake Shore and Cardinal will get Diners!

Does this mean that Amtrak be moving away from the National Menu and perhaps go back to having "Specials" that are route specific?

Or will this mean Express/Limited Menus for some of the Viewliner Trains like some of the Superliner Trains have?


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## jis (Nov 4, 2017)

Unknown at present. The only thing that was stated in no uncertain terms is - No more service cutbacks. It is counter-productive.

BTW I really liked the menu that I saw and the new item that I had for lunch on the Southwest Chief today. Things are starting to look up I think.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 4, 2017)

What wonderful news: diners on all LD trains and no more service cutbacks! Hope it comes true!




Did they mean only overnight trains, though, or LD daytime ones like the Carolinian as well?

jis--what did you have for lunch?

I loved the new menus that started in October--I had salmon whenever I could on the Gathering trip, and I loved the Railroad French toast.


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## jis (Nov 4, 2017)

Carolinian is not an LD train. It is a State Supported Train. Palmetto technically is the only daytime LD train in the Amtrak system, but it won’t be getting a Diner.

I had the new Mexican dish, the one with Tortillas. I forget its official name.

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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 6, 2017)

oh, I see--thanks, jis. I am constantly learning--I had assumed that any train that went a long way, even if not overnight, was an LD train. Why would the Palmetto qualify as an LD train? Run by Amtrak and not state supported? Or another reason?

If the Silver Star gets its diner back, I will be happy--that was my favorite eastern train til they removed the diner.


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## jis (Nov 6, 2017)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> oh, I see--thanks, jis. I am constantly learning--I had assumed that any train that went a long way, even if not overnight, was an LD train. Why would the Palmetto qualify as an LD train? Run by Amtrak and not state supported? Or another reason?


I guess primarily because the Palmetto runs more than 750 miles. Actually Palmetto has a longer run than the Capitol Limited!!


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Nov 6, 2017)

They probably chose 750 for the CL (780) and to exclude the Carolinian (704). The Palmetto conveniently fell over the CL.


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## railiner (Nov 8, 2017)

I don't see why the Palmetto should not have a diner....just because it doesn't have a sleeper?

If it did have a diner, it would be a more efficient use than the overnight trains....the Palmetto schedule pretty much covers all three meal periods in a day, while the overnight trains cover only two...

Also, it would only require two diner's...

And there would be no need for dorm space, the crew would overnite in a hotel...


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## jis (Nov 8, 2017)

As soon as the options are exercised for getting more Diners I suppose [emoji57]

But frankly this has little to do with the NARP meeting and I acknowledge that I was partly responsible for derailing this thread. So could we please stop further discourse on Diner allocation on this thread please?

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## dlagrua (Nov 8, 2017)

After reading every post in this thread; except for the mention of the diners returning to the Eastern trains, I still have absolutely no idea what was achieved and accomplished at the NARP 50th anniversary conference. So far it all sounds like gibberish. If the purpose was to disseminate info, what were the benefits derived and how is this of use to the rail passenger community?


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 8, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> After reading every post in this thread; except for the mention of the diners returning to the Eastern trains, I still have absolutely no idea what was achieved and accomplished at the NARP 50th anniversary conference. So far it all sounds like gibberish. If the purpose was to disseminate info, what were the benefits derived and how is this of use to the rail passenger community?


This!


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 8, 2017)

Bob Dylan said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > After reading every post in this thread; except for the mention of the diners returning to the Eastern trains, I still have absolutely no idea what was achieved and accomplished at the NARP 50th anniversary conference. So far it all sounds like gibberish. If the purpose was to disseminate info, what were the benefits derived and how is this of use to the rail passenger community?
> ...


Where I come from grassroots organizations rarely host extravagant shindigs under adversarial administrations or during defensive lean year organizing. Then again I'm not a paid lobbyist or a member of the gala attending donor class, so maybe that's why it makes little sense to me.


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## jis (Nov 9, 2017)

The official dissemination will happen in this week’s RPA Hotline I presume.

There is a bit about Anderson’s speech in last week’s Hotline which can be found at:

https://www.narprail.org/news/hotline/hotline-1-040-railnation-chicago-begins-amtrak-service-in-roanoke-returns-hsr-from-seattle-to-vancouver-to-attract-1.8-million/

Frankly I will not be able to find time to write up a full report of my own to post here till after Thanksgiving given what is currently on my plate. But I will be happy to post pointers to any other reports I chance across.

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## neroden (Nov 9, 2017)

OK, so here's MY report.

-- Anderson's speech / interview showed that he seemed to understand most (if not quite all) of the issues facing Amtrak -- and he specified that he wasn't letting Wick Moorman leave any time soon! They have a double-sided business card.

-- Anderson took the Capitol Limited to the meeting. He specifically stated that the equipment going out on the road broken has to end (referring to specific defects in his sleeper). He commented that the overnight sleeper on the Capitol Limited would be a great way to attend business meetings in Chicago... if the freights were not delaying it. Asked about on-time performance he basically indicated that his impulse was to fight the freights because they're breaking the law.

-- Amtrak is actively, and quite successfully, eliminating initial terminal delays so that the freight railroads have no excuses for their delays. I heard some extensive details about what's been done to do this in the dispatching tour, but I'm not sure whether any of that is "confidential".

-- The dispatchers in Chicago would really love to get rid of 21st St. Lift Bridge -- or amend the Coast Guard law which says it must open on demand for any pleasure craft.

-- I inquired at the OTP panel (which was mostly lawyers) whether Amtrak could sue on its own behalf directly under the 1973 "preference at junctions" law over specific instances of preference violation. They didn't know. I think they will be looking that up. 

-- I managed to make a direct complaint to the individuals in management directly responsible for providing (or not) ingredients lists in the dining car.

-- There is active chatter about improving Rail Passengers Association internal structure. The "seats per state" system is leaving permanently vacant seats from low population states while having low representation from high-population states, and this is recognized as a problem.


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## dlagrua (Nov 9, 2017)

neroden said:


> OK, so here's MY report.
> 
> -- Anderson's speech / interview showed that he seemed to understand most (if not quite all) of the issues facing Amtrak -- and he specified that he wasn't letting Wick Moorman leave any time soon! They have a double-sided business card.
> 
> ...


Good start. At least you got something for your money! The interesting thing about Amtrak 2017, is that for the first time we have two people with business experience at the helm instead of a Washington political hack.. Maybe some good things will really get done. I can relate to the comment about the lack of maintenance. .


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## bretton88 (Nov 9, 2017)

Am Amtrak CEO who rode the actual product (in this case a revenue sleeper)? I'm impressed. Great way to get a grasp of some of the problems facing Amtrak.

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## jis (Nov 9, 2017)

This happened to be his first ride on an Amtrak LD train. he said he plans to do some more riding.

His customer focus was quite apparent in his presentation.

He did talk a lot about his concerns regarding the Superliner fleet, but did not disclose any specific plans on any plans. He did say that Amtrak will do a comprehensive fleet planning exercise and then proceed from there. In a private conversation he acknowledged that at the present time, if the money can be found, it will be easier to get single level cars delivered quite rapidly. Getting any multi-level cars will take more time.


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## bretton88 (Nov 9, 2017)

jis said:


> This happened to be his first ride on an Amtrak LD train. he said he plans to do some more riding.
> 
> His customer focus was quite apparent in his presentation.
> 
> He did talk a lot about his concerns regarding the Superliner fleet, but did not disclose any specific plans on any plans. He did say that Amtrak will do a comprehensive fleet planning exercise and then proceed from there. In a private conversation he acknowledged that at the present time, if the money can be found, it will be easier to get single level cars delivered quite rapidly. Getting any multi-level cars will take more time.


Sounds like he might be leaning towards replacing the single level fleet, and possibly heavily refurbishing the Superliners, since that's what funding would support. Does anyone manufacture bi level sleepers anymore? New Superliner Sleepers might have to be a custom product ($$).
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## jis (Nov 9, 2017)

There are manufacturers of European and Russian track and loading gauge bi-levels including Sleepers. Nothing at present specific to US loading gauges or other FRA standards AFAIK. US Superliner style bi-levels have always been special manufacturing runs for single order. This was true of Superliners too, both I and II, as well as two different tranches of California bi-levels.

There are other bi or multi levels for the US market that have had multiple entities order the same design thus defraying cost of development among multiple customers a little bit better.


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