# Wish list for next few years (TC Hiawatha)



## norfolkwesternhenry (Jul 17, 2016)

Here is my wish list for the next few years on the MSP-CHI corridor (probably not going to happen)

1. Hiawatha's 329, 330, 333, & 336 extended to MSP, add café for food service (Jan 2017)

2. Improve yard tracks just east/south of St. Paul 40->79 MPH (Jan 2017)

3. start track work on Mississippi River to 90 MPH (Mar 2017)

4. secure more funding for La Crosse to MKE track work 79->90/110 MPH (Mar 2017)

5. start track work La Crosse to MKE (June 2017)

6. improve stations with Wi-Fi, quik track kiosks lounge/waiting area and staff (June 2017)

7. Electrify CHI-MKE, 60/79->110/125 MPH (July 2017)

8. extend Hiawatha 339 & 340 to MSP (Dec 2017)

9. finish CHI-MKE electrification (Aug 2018)

10. acquire hybrid locomotives (pantograph/diesel) for extended Hiawatha service (P52?) (Aug 2018)

11. upgrade Mississippi river track 90->110 (Sep 2018)

12. finish La Crosse-MKE track work (Dec 2018)

13. finish Mississippi river track work (June 2019)

14. electrify MKE-MSP 110->125/200 MPH (July 2019)

15. improve CHI-MKE corridor 110/125->125-200 MPH (July 2019)

16. acquire HS train sets (max 200 MPH) (Aug 2019)

17. acquire more ACS-64/ N. S. Bi-Levels

18. finish improvements on CHI-MKE corridor (Dec 2019)

19. finish electrification MKE-MSP (Jan 2020)

20. introduce hourly local/express service CHI-MKE-MSP (Jan 2020)

21. give me free rides!  (all the time)


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## CCC1007 (Jul 17, 2016)

Very ambitious, that said, no chance in hell of almost any of these happening in this timeline.


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Jul 17, 2016)

agreed, that's why it is a wish list, and not a fact sheet


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## afigg (Jul 17, 2016)

norfolkwesternhenry said:


> Here is my wish list for the next few years on the MSP-CHI corridor (probably not going to happen)
> 
> ....


Your schedule of upgrades could not be remotely met even if multiple billions of dollars fell out of the sky for a MSP-MKE-CHI corridor service. But why propose electrification and upgrades to a 125 mph corridor followed in only a couple of years to a 200 mph corridor? Not an efficient use of funds.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 17, 2016)

Is there a realistic chance that at least one Hiawatha will be extended to MSP in the near future? If the train could stay on schedule you could have it run the reverse of the current EB and do a same day return to Chicago.

Leave CHI: 7 AM

Arrive MSP: 2:30 PM

Leave MSP: 3:30 PM

Arrive CHI: 11 PM

With the new equipment arriving Amtrak could keep some of the Horizons for routes like this. This would be much better times for someone in Chicago wanting a long weekend in MSP. It would also be nice if fares could be reduced to compete with the Lincoln Service. That is usually $25 so I think $35 or $40 would be fair for MSP. Right now it is about $55 to $60.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jul 17, 2016)

Doubt any help will come from Wisconsin while Walker is in charge. But Minnesota is studying it...

http://www.startribune.com/second-amtrak-train-from-st-paul-to-chicago-would-be-popular-new-study-says/311615131/

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerrail/pdfs/2nd-train-feasibility-report%20.pdf


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 17, 2016)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Doubt any help will come from Wisconsin while Walker is in charge. But Minnesota is studying it...
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/second-amtrak-train-from-st-paul-to-chicago-would-be-popular-new-study-says/311615131/
> 
> http://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerrail/pdfs/2nd-train-feasibility-report%20.pdf


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Jul 17, 2016)

$54 CHI-MSP (date:1/13/17, random date) 418 miles, 7H 48M

$27 CHI-STL (same date) 284 miles, 5H 20M


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 17, 2016)

Stations and equipment are in place. Minnesota could probably pay for it themselves relatively easily if there is space on the tracks. It would also be nice if they routed it as a through service to Duluth when that opens.


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## WoodyinNYC (Jul 17, 2016)

A few complications. One is sort of nice. A private group is trying to cost out a proposal for a high speed stub train from Minneapolis-St Paul (Airport) to Rochester (Mayo Clinic). If somehow the group gathers up a few Billions to get serious, it would become the first leg out of St Paul heading south, then east to Wisconsin.

I think it's vaporware, but out of respect for one of the minor gods of the cult, no one with clout will speak ill of it. Instead, we must wait while it plays out before getting real about the other alternatives.

Meanwhile, this study has been prepared. Never enuff studies.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerrail/mn-chicago-study.html

I read my way deep into this document last summer. I came to the section that said the train could not be routed thru Madison. Of course not, as the representatives of Wisconsin had explained to Minnesota's people, there was no connection between Madison and the Chicago-St Paul route.

Well, of course not. Gov Scott Walker hates the libtards in Madison. He made sure they got no train out of the Stimulus funds, and he intends that they shall never get a train if he can stop it.

So the proposal studies all the major population centers -- CHI-Milwaukee-St Paul. If a stop in nearby Madison would collect a lot of riders, Walker doesn't want to hear it. If you want Wisconsin's help on a train to St Paul, leave Madison out of it. Well, I stopped reading at that point.


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## Fred Wis. (Jul 18, 2016)

While I agree an extension to MSP would be great, be aware that the road builders association is running non stop radio, and even some tv spots, in Wisconsin, in favor of more money for highways. The budget for transportation is tight already( borrowing money to fund projects already.) Politicians are swayed by lobbying efforts.

A single run, opposite the Empire builders run, would be most effective in enlightening folks to the possibilities of using the train. But no one will take pie in the sky proposals seriously. ( I do understand the poster was just dreaming of "what if..." for the fun of it . As far as going to Madison, without huge sums of money for track work, this is not going to happen. And making it a milk run, by stopping in Madison, will not please those that want to get to MSP or CHI timely. A single run to MSP is the way to start.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Jul 18, 2016)

There's a lot of grade separation needed between Chicago and Milwaukee for speeds that high - I coincidentally had a late lunch in Glenview yesterday watching Empire Builders (In and out bound) as well as Hiawatha's and a few Metra's come through - or at least that's the impression I have.

I think an additional direct train Chicago-MSP via Iowa would be useful, eventually routed through Rochester, along with more MKE-MSP trains (and replacement of Thruway bus service with rail).


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## Eric S (Jul 18, 2016)

There is also an ongoing WisDOT study looking at additional trains CHI-MKE (as well as the MnDOT study looking at adding another CHI-MKE-MSP train). There hasn't been much news from WisDOT about this study in quite some time - supposedly there "will be" meetings in Spring/Summer 2016 - I suppose late summer still counts as spring/summer, so they could still meet that schedules.

At any rate, here's the website - http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/rail-chi-mil/default.aspx

The main goal of the study has been to look at what it would take to bump up the schedule from 7 trains/day to 10 trains/day. With the schedules they've proposed, this would require additional equipment. Also, CP Rail has stated that they would require a second platform at MKA station before any additional frequencies could be added.

If the bilevel car program ever gets things straightened out, I'd hope WI would consider purchasing such equipment, both to expand capacity and also to speed loading and unloading at stations.

I wish they'd look at shifting to a clockface/memory schedule of trains every 2 hours, running perhaps 8 or 9 trains/day, as an initial goal. That would not necessarily require additional equipment. I also wish they'd consider beefing up Thruway services that connect to Hiawatha trains, as a relatively inexpensive way of growing ridership and extending the reach of the corridor - although, you know, that might grow demand for rail service to be extended toward Green Bay or Madison and, oh, we can't have that, can we? Oh well.


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## bretton88 (Jul 18, 2016)

A delay is a bad sign. Often that means things came in over budget predictions and they're trying to figure out how to spin it.


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## neroden (Jul 31, 2016)

WisDOT will do nothing whatsoever for passenger trains until that criminal Scott Walker leaves office.


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## Anthony V (Aug 3, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Stations and equipment are in place. Minnesota could probably pay for it themselves relatively easily if there is space on the tracks. It would also be nice if they routed it as a through service to Duluth when that opens.


Essentially restoring the North Star? Or, in other words, extending the Northern Lights Express proposal to Chicago?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Aug 3, 2016)

Anthony V said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Stations and equipment are in place. Minnesota could probably pay for it themselves relatively easily if there is space on the tracks. It would also be nice if they routed it as a through service to Duluth when that opens.
> ...


Yes. The Northern Lights proposal has 4 frequencies proposed, it would be nice to have at least 2 continue to Chicago.

Duluth. ---- 11 AM. 8 PM

St Paul 8 AM. 2 PM. 11 PM

Chicago 4 PM. 10 PM. 7 AM

Chicago 8 AM. 2 PM. 11 PM

St Paul 4 PM. 10 PM. 7 AM

Duluth. 7 PM. ----- 10 AM


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Sep 21, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Stations and equipment are in place. Minnesota could probably pay for it themselves relatively easily if there is space on the tracks. It would also be nice if they routed it as a through service to Duluth when that opens.


 how can we get MN to think they should pay for it, and WI doesn't need to?


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## railiner (Sep 22, 2016)

Hey!.....here's a thought...persuade NBC, (I think it was them), to bring back an updated version of "Supertrain" 

It could do for Amtrak, what "The Love Boat" did for the cruise business... 

Edit:

Umm...somehow I posted this in the wrong thread (using my phone)...I meant it as a reply in the promoting Amtrak thread...


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## jis (Sep 22, 2016)

norfolkwesternhenry said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Stations and equipment are in place. Minnesota could probably pay for it themselves relatively easily if there is space on the tracks. It would also be nice if they routed it as a through service to Duluth when that opens.
> ...


Follow the original route of the Empire builder. Avoid the hassle of dealing with CP and Wisconsin - well you still travel partly through Wisconsin but there is not much there to slow you down. Of course you miss Milwaukee and Wisconsin Dells. But hey, you can;t have it all.... Basically it will be Minnesota's train to Chicago with no Wisconsin to interfere in any of it, and of course it still would not pay for it.


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## jebr (Sep 22, 2016)

Honestly, the best way to get a little support for it from WI would be to see if you could run it as one of the Hiawatha frequencies. Might require a longer than desired padding at MKE, though.


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Sep 22, 2016)

jis said:


> norfolkwesternhenry said:
> 
> 
> > brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> ...


 is that BNSF's CHI-MSP mainline? Assuming ex GN/BN


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## CCC1007 (Sep 23, 2016)

norfolkwesternhenry said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > norfolkwesternhenry said:
> ...


Actually ex CB&Q


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## Metra Electric Rider (Sep 23, 2016)

railiner said:


> Hey!.....here's a thought...persuade NBC, (I think it was them), to bring back an updated version of "Supertrain"
> 
> It could do for Amtrak, what "The Love Boat" did for the cruise business...
> 
> ...


Too bad Weezie isn't around any longer to be in the upcoming Pilot (but I think it'd be like Amazon or a cable network).


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## neroden (Sep 27, 2016)

jebr said:


> Honestly, the best way to get a little support for it from WI would be to


...elect a governor who isn't Scott Walker. WI was a consistent train-supporting state under both parties prior to that criminal Walker. Soon as he's out they'll probably support trains again.
Reminds me of Rob Ford, the crack-smoking mayor of Toronto, who prevented public transit policy from happening during his term.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Sep 28, 2016)

neroden said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, the best way to get a little support for it from WI would be to
> ...


And Paul Ryan - just drove through his district two weeks ago - the roads there have gone to pot too. It's sad when Illinois roads are better than Wisconsin's - time was when Wisconsin took care of their infrastructure. I-43 in particular was just miles of rough pavement.


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## norfolkwesternhenry (Oct 19, 2016)

check out the street that I take, I have gotten flat tires from the tubes on my bike exploding from the impact of all the potholes. I have also gotten several pinch flats (where the tube gets pinched between the rim and tire) on 16th Ave, S, MPLS, between 46th and 40th street. That road is terrible. It's the Penn Central road!


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