# TSA apologizes after family told wheelchair-bound daughter would get p



## amtrakwolverine (Feb 21, 2013)

> The Transportation Security Administration has apologized after the family of a wheelchair-bound 3-year-old girl with spina bifida was pulled aside and told she would receive a pat-down.


http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/tsa-apologizes-after-family-told-wheelchair-bound-daughter-would-get-1C8481122


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

You got to be kidding me......

-3 years old

-going to Disney for the first time

-Military vet father

This story brings tears to my eyes thinking of what that poor girl went through. Thing is, TSA will keep being TSA. Nothing's going to change.


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## Steel City Don (Feb 22, 2013)

Sorry, I agree with it. I am an airport employee and get searched everyday. These people are no different. Lets not forget, terrorists, will use anything to get there work done.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

Unless you're implying a terrorist put a bomb in her wheelchair when the family wasn't looking. Does that family look like a terrorist at all?


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 22, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Unless you're implying a terrorist put a bomb in her wheelchair when the family wasn't looking. Does that family look like a terrorist at all?


Are you reverse profiling?


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

This isn't the first time a wheelchair bound perfer has flown. Those metal detects detect the specific metal and location as it passes through. If it was the earrings it would have shown to not come the wheelchair location or her lap area.


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## Steel City Don (Feb 22, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Unless you're implying a terrorist put a bomb in her wheelchair when the family wasn't looking. Does that family look like a terrorist at all?


Never know, I'd rather be safe then sorry, they don't like it, try Amtrak or Greyhound. HOWEVER, I will say flight crews/attendants should not be exempt from random checks, but that is a whole new topic..


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 22, 2013)

I was referring to your "Does that family look like a terrorist at all?", not the wheelchair.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

I know you were. And they chose to be stupid about it.


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## jis (Feb 22, 2013)

Without taking any specific position on what TSA does or does not do.... as you know I have issues with a few of their misadventures.... I would like to point out that very often Terrorists don't look like a stereotypical Terrorist. Looks can be deceptive and completely innocent people can inadvertently become part of an instrument of terror too.


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## The Davy Crockett (Feb 22, 2013)

jis said:


> Looks can be deceptive and completely innocent people can inadvertently become part of an instrument of terror too.


Which is why the TSA Pre Check program makes no sense to me. Sure the people themselves are low risk, but...
EDIT: Not that I think the TSA security theater does a lot of good, as it is mostly a deterrent that keeps honest people honest.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 22, 2013)

I wonder, how exactly would the TSA have prevented 9/11? So far as I can remember none of the previous airport security missed anything that was banned at that time. Also, even if we presume that the TSA is 100% successful at preventing harm in an airport or on an airplane what is there to stop today's terrorists from shooting up our schools, our theaters, our universities, our shops, and our offices? Just curious how the pro-TSA side sees this.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

And when has an innocent looking person been an instrument of terror?


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 22, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> And when has an innocent looking person been an instrument of terror?


Ever hear of toddlers? :giggle:


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 22, 2013)

Point taken...I have a 4 year old sister.


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## Ryan (Feb 22, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> And when has an innocent looking person been an instrument of terror?


Define "innocent looking".


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## jis (Feb 22, 2013)

In my experience my Israeli friends tell me that the bombings that went on before the fence was built involved many pretty innocent looking people, specially women carrying body bombs and blowing themselves up in restaurants and such places in and around Tel Aviv. But I must admit, I have never been a personal witness to any. Then again, I have not been a first hand witness to any act of terrorism from a distance of less than at least a few hundred miles either. I am no expert at this, but I have noticed that each time I check in for an international flight abroad I am always asked in detail whether I have been given anyting to carry by someone else or not, presumably because there have beenc cases where that was a vector for introduction of dangerous stuff via unsuspecting well meaning and otherwise innocent individuals.

While TSA going overboard is a problem, I doubt that the total absence of any security check at airports is going to be a terribly good idea either. Memories of massive number of hijackings back in the late 60s and early 70s come to mind.

For example the sort of incident described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson%27s_Field_hijackings would be much much harder to pull off today, though admittedly not impossible, and therefore one can surmiase that such are prevented by the presence of airport security checks to a large extent.


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## jis (Feb 23, 2013)

Thought y'all would enjoy this one  courtesy The Liberal Page's:


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 23, 2013)

That pic would be so much worse if the passenger was turned around.


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## chakk (Feb 23, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I wonder, how exactly would the TSA have prevented 9/11? So far as I can remember none of the previous airport security missed anything that was banned at that time. Also, even if we presume that the TSA is 100% successful at preventing harm in an airport or on an airplane what is there to stop today's terrorists from shooting up our schools, our theaters, our universities, our shops, and our offices? Just curious how the pro-TSA side sees this.


And the Lockerbie bombers, I believe, checked their bomb in luggage of the American fiancee of one of the evil-doers. He was quite willing to sacrifice the love of his life to take out certain individuals on the plane (I've heard that some US government agents traveling on the flight were the specific targets). So, yes, the point is EXACTLY that someone might have been able to slip a bomb into the personal effects of the three-year old. And unless the TSA checks out carefully any "hits" that their detection system gets on the initial searches, then there is no safety.

The process could be done in an enclosed area away from the prying eyes of the general public, but it can (and should) be done.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 23, 2013)

chakk said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder, how exactly would the TSA have prevented 9/11? So far as I can remember none of the previous airport security missed anything that was banned at that time. Also, even if we presume that the TSA is 100% successful at preventing harm in an airport or on an airplane what is there to stop today's terrorists from shooting up our schools, our theaters, our universities, our shops, and our offices? Just curious how the pro-TSA side sees this.
> ...


You can't compare a stranger putting something in your baggage to be the same thing as your partner doing it. Your partner can touch your bag all they want in front of your face without you giving it another look.


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## Aaron (Feb 24, 2013)

chakk said:


> And the Lockerbie bombers, I believe, checked their bomb in luggage of the American fiancee of one of the evil-doers. He was quite willing to sacrifice the love of his life to take out certain individuals on the plane (I've heard that some US government agents traveling on the flight were the specific targets).


Source? The official investigation concluded that the suitcase with the bomb in it originated in Malta on a different airline and was transferred unaccompanied onto Pan Am 103 at Heathrow. Where does the fiancee come into play? Passenger on the flight from Malta?


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I wonder, how exactly would the TSA have prevented 9/11?


It wouldn't have. All of the hijackers had essentially clean records and none of them would have shown up on "no-fly lists", not even if the lists were constructed using the ethnic profiling popular in the government at the time. (As opposed to the ethnic profiling popular now -- always fighting the last war....)

Right now, if you want to hijack an airplane, just get some people who look and sound like Timothy McVeigh together and you'll be able to do almost everything the 9/11 hijackers did. There's one difference, which has nothing to do with the TSA: because people now know about the "flying planes into buildings" tactic, any attempt to hijack a plane would have a "United Flight 93" response from the passengers. In 2001, people were trained to cooperate with hijackers.

As for Lockerbie, the current methods of scanning checked luggage still wouldn't prevent a Lockerbie-type bomb from being checked on a passenger plane. Meanwhile, checks on air cargo are nonexistent, and air cargo does run on passenger planes, so that's the "reliable" way of blowing up an airliner with a bomb.

Practically everything introduced since 9/11 is security theater, decorative shows designed to make people think they're safer, but not actually making people safer. Everything except for the locked cockpit doors.

Actually, given standards of hiring at the TSA, one way for a terrorist to bomb a plane would be to get a TSA job.


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## June the Coach Rider (Mar 13, 2013)

Sitting in CHI for so many hours waiting for the LSL recently, I cannot tell you how many times I heard the safety recording. Do not take anything onto the train given to you by someone else. This is just common sense, but people can be convinced to take something onto a plane for someone else? I would hope people would not do that on planes either.

It is sad that the girl in the chair had to be patted down, but as has been said, terrorists have used children in the past to get bombs thru and lets not forget all the drugs that are smuggled in baby carriages or diaper bags. The criminal will hide their evil in anything and on anyone they think it can get past TSA with.


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## KrazyKoala (Mar 13, 2013)

June said:


> Sitting in CHI for so many hours waiting for the LSL recently, I cannot tell you how many times I heard the safety recording. Do not take anything onto the train given to you by someone else. This is just common sense, but people can be convinced to take something onto a plane for someone else? I would hope people would not do that on planes either.
> It is sad that the girl in the chair had to be patted down, but as has been said, terrorists have used children in the past to get bombs thru and lets not forget all the drugs that are smuggled in baby carriages or diaper bags. The criminal will hide their evil in anything and on anyone they think it can get past TSA with.


I like the one in STL



> Do not leave your baggage unattended. Unattended baggage will be taken and destroyed without warning.


There's so many other places that have less harsh policies in place like WAS and NYP


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## Ryan (Mar 15, 2013)

Try leaving an unattended bag in WAS and see what happens.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2013)

Couple of years back I watched in utter astonishment what happens when you leave a bag unattended at Gare du Nord in Paris (where the Eurostar to London and TGVs to North of France and Thalys to Holland, Belgium and Germany originate). I was waiting for a Eurostar upstairs and looked down on the main concourse. Saw a platoon of Police come in, clear and cordon off an area about 30' in diameter, then a curious looking robot rolled in, rolled upto the bag and blew it up in place. Within minutes everything was cleared including the junk left from the bag, and life was back to normal. I was impressed with the efficiency of it all!


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## KrazyKoala (Mar 15, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Try leaving an unattended bag in WAS and see what happens.


Nothing happens. The police roll their eyes and say "Not this **** again." then poke around with whatever they were going for 5-10 more minutes before actually getting up and looking into it.


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## SarahZ (Mar 15, 2013)

June said:


> Sitting in CHI for so many hours waiting for the LSL recently, I cannot tell you how many times I heard the safety recording. Do not take anything onto the train given to you by someone else. This is just common sense, but people can be convinced to take something onto a plane for someone else? I would hope people would not do that on planes either.


Unfortunately, it could be pretty easy if you found the right person.

For example: I could wrap an Ace bandage around my wrist/hand and put my arm in a sling. Then, I could stand in the boarding line with my laptop bag, suitcase, and purse. I'd make sure I was near a person who looked super gullible and willing to help anyone at any time. Feigning pain/exhaustion and "struggling" with my bags, I would ask them if they wouldn't mind carrying my laptop bag, as I've been carrying this stuff all day and my wrist hurts SO badly. "Sure," they say, since I'm in line right behind them and it seems completely harmless (especially since I'm a white girl in a college sweatshirt, probably on her way home to visit her parents for Christmas).

A couple moments later, I could fake getting a phone call and say, "Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. I have to take this. I'll be right back." Then I'd step away from the line and hang out long enough for them to get to the front. Now they have a dilemma. They can either be mean to the injured college student and leave my laptop bag near the gate, which is doubly complex since now it looks like they're abandoning a random bag and someone might alert security about them, or they can carry the laptop bag onto the plane and wait for me. They'd glance at me, and I'd nod and give them the "be there in a sec" gesture, prompting them to carry it onto the plane and wait for me to board, which I never do. As soon as they walked into the jetway, I left the gate area, which means the gate agents won't be signaling for me to hurry up and board either. Wouldn't want that kind of attention, right?

Yeah, it's pretty sick that I could come up with that, and I promise I would never, ever do something like that. I guess I've just read too many crime books.


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## Anderson (Mar 15, 2013)

Well, the "easy way out" on that would be for the person holding your bag to make a very loud point that this is _her_ bag that they're giving you a hand with and wait for a few minutes (or to simply step aside in line, let others board, while patiently waiting for you to get off your phone call...and indeed, eventually politely nagging you to cut off the **** call because you'll miss your flight, which to me would actually be the polite thing to do since you're clearly an airheaded college student who's losing track of time while talking to a friend). Basically, I ignore your "be there in a sec" nod if not get out of line entirely.

And for what it's worth, I've got friends who can do far, far worse.


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## SarahZ (Mar 15, 2013)

Anderson said:


> Well, the "easy way out" on that would be for the person holding your bag to make a very loud point that this is _her_ bag that they're giving you a hand with and wait for a few minutes (or to simply step aside in line, let others board, while patiently waiting for you to get off your phone call...and indeed, eventually politely nagging you to cut off the **** call because you'll miss your flight, which to me would actually be the polite thing to do since you're clearly an airheaded college student who's losing track of time while talking to a friend). Basically, I ignore your "be there in a sec" nod if not get out of line entirely.
> And for what it's worth, I've got friends who can do far, far worse.


Yeah, but somebody like my mom would rather get on the plane with it than cause a fuss or make me hold it again. That's what I meant by gullible and overly-nice.  (I don't mean that as a slam against my mom; her sweet nature is endearing.)

Anyway, it was just an example and a lot of fun to write.


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