# Gander International Terminal on Endangered List



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 26, 2014)

The International Departures Lounge at the Gander Airport is now on the Heritage Canada - National Trust Top Ten Endangered Places for 2014. Its listed as the 'the most important Modernist Room in Canada' and could be demolished as the airport authority downsizes to a terminal that reflects the current traffic levels....regional flights on CRJs, B1900s, E190s and '737s.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/gander-airport-lounge-named-an-endangered-canadian-space-1.2711544

http://www.ganderairport.com/

A few shots from July 1976:


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 26, 2014)

……and today:





















Other than winter flights to sun destinations, the last scheduled International flight….a Air Canada L1011 to Heathrow was transferred to YYT (St. John's) in the late '80s.

There's so much history in that Terminal.....and sadly, opening in 1959, it probably never saw its full potential. This was right at the dawn of the jet age with the new '707s and DC-8s now capable of overflying Gander on transatlantic flights. But go back just a couple of years before and all the majors were there with their Constellations, DC-4s, DC-6s etc......TWA, Pan Am, TCA, BOAC, El Al, Air France, Alitalia, Sabena, SAS, Swissair etc. Most had extensive operations there with crew bases, dispatch etc.

Even Aeroflot, Interflug (East Germany) CSA-Czechoslovak and Cubana stopped for fuel on their way to and from Cuba and many travelers got their first taste of freedom there when they defected during the stopover in the Gander Terminal.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-04-11/news/8501210193_1_rcmp-officer-refueling-lounge

All the infrastructure is still there and probably will be even if the terminal is downsized to handle refueling or diversions just like it did on 9-11…..that fateful day when nearly 10,000 people just dropped in...nearly doubling the town’s population and they all had to be housed and fed for several days (watch NBC’s Tom Brokaw Gander piece here):

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/1335538/gander_brokaw_piece


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks for providing that info. I recall hearing about the extraordinary hospitality that airport, and the local citizenry provided to transatlantic traveller's in the aftermath of 9-11...

As for that decor...I seem to be 'lost' in that era, as I still consider it to be 'modern'....

I stopped for lunch there, when driving across Newfoundland in 1990, in my brand-new Grand Marquis. I believe that the DRL daily cross-island bus still has its lunch stop at the terminal restaurant, as well.

Prior to Gander, nearby Botwood served as the midway refueling point. Pan Am's Boeing 314 Clipper's, were among the regular's there.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 26, 2014)

railiner said:


> Prior to Gander, nearby Botwood served as the midway refueling point. Pan Am's Boeing 314 Clipper's, were among the regular's there.


Yes.....the original Pan Am Terminal at Botwood is still there. It's now a museum:


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 26, 2014)

railiner said:


> I stopped for lunch there, when driving across Newfoundland in 1990, in my brand-new Grand Marquis. I believe that the DRL daily cross-island bus still has its lunch stop at the terminal restaurant, as well.


Yes.....DRL (formerly CN Roadcruiser) still stops at the airport:

http://drl-lr.com/schedule-and-fares/


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

I had a pree-mo-nition you would respond to my post with some photo's 

Thanks, for not disappointing me.... 

By the way, if you want to enjoy a great read, I would highly recommend Ken Follett's novel, "Night Over Water", set aboard a Clipper flight, with a stop at Botwood.

And for Gander, the James Stewart film, "No Highway In The Sky"....although not sure if the famous scene where he lifts the landing gear of the parked "Rainbow" was actually filmed there, or in Hollywood....


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

NS VIA Fan said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I stopped for lunch there, when driving across Newfoundland in 1990, in my brand-new Grand Marquis. I believe that the DRL daily cross-island bus still has its lunch stop at the terminal restaurant, as well.
> ...


The schedule shows only one time there, so not sure if that is the meal stop.....

edit...based on the running times on the prior and subsequent stops, I guess it still is....


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## MrFSS (Jul 26, 2014)

railiner said:


> And for Gander, the James Stewart film, "No Highway In The Sky"....although not sure if the famous scene where he drops the landing gear of the parked "Rainbow" was actually filmed there, or in Hollywood....


That is a great movie - I dig it out ever so often and watch it again!


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

I wish they would do a film version of this...http://ken-follett.com/bibliography/night_over_water/

Fantastic detail of the way the steward's made up the berth's for sleeping...took a lot more work than Pullman Porter's had to do. And those steward's also cooked and served the meals on board....great detail considering the author did not benefit from seeing a preserved Clipper (there are none, unfortunately)....

edit...there is a replica, apparently....http://www.flyingboatmuseum.com/aviation-museum/b314/


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## fairviewroad (Jul 29, 2014)

> "The best way to preserve a heritage structure is to find a sustainable new use for it," said Severs.


This is a key point. It's not a responsible use of funds for the local airport authority to continue to maintain

what is essentially a white elephant building at this point. The preservationists need to find a way to make

it financially sustainable and to their credit, it sounds like they understand this point.

This building may be "important" but if no one ever sees it, then it's all for naught. And the Catch-22 is that

the reason it's in danger of being lost is the fact that no one ever sees it. (i.e. it's no longer needed for the

purpose it was built for)

I certainly have an untrained eye for these things but that terminal doesn't look any more special than dozens

of other mid-20-th century public infrastructure projects that exist all over the US and Canada. What makes this

place special is what it was used for...it's a nostalgic throwback to an earlier era when intercontinental air travel was not

routine. But the building itself...yawn.


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## railiner (Jul 29, 2014)

Another thing that makes it 'special' besides its history, is the fact that most of the other examples surviving that period, have been extensively altered from their original design, with new furnishings, lighting, etc., that sometimes covers up all or most traces of their origin's....

The terminal may not be viable in today's operation, but it certainly is good to have as a 'reserve' diversion airport, in the event of some other catastrophic event like 9-11 ever occurs again. And they way the world is going these days, who knows?

Perhaps the IATA member airlines that could be benefited should contribute some appropriate support to keep it as a reserve for that purpose.....


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## fairviewroad (Jul 30, 2014)

railiner said:


> The terminal may not be viable in today's operation, but it certainly is good to have as a 'reserve' diversion airport, in the event of some other catastrophic event like 9-11 ever occurs again. And they way the world is going these days, who knows?
> 
> Perhaps the IATA member airlines that could be benefited should contribute some appropriate support to keep it as a reserve for that purpose.....


Honest question: Are the existing international air terminals in the region not sufficient for this purpose? YYT and YHZ, specifically. I know that after 9-11

a lot of aircraft DID divert to Gander, but how much of that was simply out of, well, habit. (Everyone "knows" you divert to Gander). (I know that some

aircraft also diverted to YHZ...not sure about YYT).


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 30, 2014)

[SIZE=11pt]AFAIK it’s just the terminal at Gander that may be downsized……. runways and ramps will remain and could be available to handle any mass diversions that might happen again in the future. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]But to handle an influx of 10,000 passengers within the space of a couple of hours like Gander did on 9-11……they would need a much larger terminal then what’s there now anyway. I think it was over a day before all passengers were deplaned and processed through the terminal. And I remember it was a very thorough process as authorities didn’t know if they were dealing with more terrorists on the diverted flights.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Halifax YHZ – got about 7,000 passengers…….here’s the chronology of the events there:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]http://hiaa.ca/airport-authority/airport-history/september-11-2001/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]....and photos of the aircraft.....wingtip to wingtip[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]http://hiaa.ca/airport-authority/airport-history/september-11-2001/airfield-photos/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Moncton - YQM, being a bilingual city, received several Air France diversions along with other flight.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]YYT (St. John’s) got several Delta flights and other also went to airports at Goose Bay and the former USAF Harmon Field at Stephenville, NFLD. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]There were several Lufthansa diversions and in recognition, Lufthansa named one of their new A340s “Gander-Halifax” [/SIZE]


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## jamesontheroad (Jul 31, 2014)

Gander is not alone. On the other side of the Atlantic is Glasgow Prestwick Airport. Like Gander, it flourished during the early days of the jet age, when most trans-Atlantic flights stopped to refuel. For that reason it is, reputedly, the only place in the UK that Elvis Presley ever set foot. Prestwick boasts a 9800ft runway and (owing to the particular geographic situation) almost 365 fog-free days a year. The terminal has a large glazed check-in hall and a half-subterranean pier, designed in the nineteen-sixties so that the jet blast from departing planes didn't disturb passengers in the terminal.

Today, Ryanair is the only passenger airline serving the spacious terminal - which is a double irony as Ryanair have done more than any European airline to dispense with the need for traditional ticket desks, check-in desks, business class lounges, etc. They also, reputedly, have the airport management over a barrel in terms of passenger charges. With trans-Atlantic flights now served by more efficient long haul jets that can fly non-stop to their destinations, the remaining flights and airlines have gradually moved up the road to Glasgow International Airport, just outside the city itself.

The airport was recently bought by the Scottish government, its previous owners having failed to find a buyer. The airport has a modest operation supporting cargo and military flights.

The second photo below is a few years old - and hopelessly optimistic today. There will be as few as three or four flights departing every day this winter.


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## jis (Jul 31, 2014)

The name of Prestwick though lives on in the name of the Oceanic Control Center at the UK end, which is named Shanwick, a combination of Shannon and Prestwick. The corresponding Oceanic Control Center on the American end is Gander.


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## fairviewroad (Jul 31, 2014)

At least in the case of Prestwick, it's only the specific airport that's outlived its usefulness. The city itself remains a reasonably strong presence in the international air travel grid. Prestwick is simply enjoying the same fate as many other airports that have been demoted to second-tier status by newer, larger airports down the road.

Perhaps a more similar comparison to Gander on the European side of the Atlantic would be Shannon Airport in Ireland. While it's doing fairly well in terms of intra-Europe travel, it's a mere shell of its former self as a Trans-Atlantic gateway. It's a combination of political and operational reasons that have relegated SNN to a handful of TATL flights, most of which are seasonal. Almost all are on narrow body aircraft. The airport even has a US Customs pre-clearance station that gets little use outside the summer months. SNN is a far cry from the days when it was the first port-of-call for all Ireland-bound flights, and was used as a re-fueling point for many other TATL flights.

Ironically, unlike Gander, SNN still enjoys a daily visit from one flight that needs fuel...a British Airways biz-class only A318 on its way from LCY to JFK. The stop is only made westbound, and one cannot purchase a ticket solely from SNN to JFK...and the flight doesn't even stop there going back east to LCY. However, JFK-bound pax do get to use the pre-clearance facilities, which is a perk over clearing customs at JFK.


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## railiner (Aug 1, 2014)

Since I earlier mentioned Botwood, Newfoundland as the precursor to Gander, I think it is also appropriate to mention Foynes, Ireland as the flying boat stop prior to Shannon, when landplanes took over the service. The Flying Boat Museum, with its replica Boeing 314 is located there.....


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## jamesontheroad (Aug 1, 2014)

fairviewroad said:


> Ironically, unlike Gander, SNN still enjoys a daily visit from one flight that needs fuel...a British Airways biz-class only A318 on its way from LCY to JFK. The stop is only made westbound, and one cannot purchase a ticket solely from SNN to JFK...and the flight doesn't even stop there going back east to LCY. However, JFK-bound pax do get to use the pre-clearance facilities, which is a perk over clearing customs at JFK.


SNN is indeed a better example. There are, incidentally, now two weekday flights from LCY-JFK, but only one offers US pre clearance in SNN because the USCBP have scaled back opening hours to reflect the lower traffic levels. Although stopping one way and not the other seems odd, it has a double benefit - passengers arrive as domestic passengers at JFK (and can be curb side far quicker) and the plane gets refuelled. The eastbound journey benefits from the prevailing winds and so doesn't need the fuel stop. LCY is a much smaller airport, so arrival customs there are rarely an issue.


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## jis (Aug 1, 2014)

In addition to the issue with jet stream westbound, LCY runway is also so short that it does not make it possible for the JFK flight to depart with full fuel tanks. That more than anything else is what requires the SNN stop. Without that restriction the aircraft used is more than capable of flying LCY to JFK even with jetstream and all. Of course in the opposite direction that is a non-issue together with favorable winds, since JFK has about one of the longest commercial runways that one can get in the US.


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## xyzzy (Aug 1, 2014)

Correct, LCY runway is 4,900 ft... short even for an airport at sea level.

The terminal design at YQX looks very expensive to heat in the winter. Not surprised that they want to raze it.


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## railiner (Aug 1, 2014)

I wonder if they could find some creative marketing company to promote it as an interesting venue for parties, wedding's, period movie shoot's, etc.... although there isn't much of a market nearby to draw from.....they would have to somehow come up with something that would draw from far and wide, probably not possible....


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 10, 2014)

railiner said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...


I was in Gander last Friday evening just as the eastbound DRL bus arrived at the airport from Port aux Basques for a meal stop. It had covered about 2/3 of its 900 km run across Newfoundland.













There was also a USAF flight in for fuel (& maybe a meal too)


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 10, 2014)

Just down by the shore of Gander Lake.....off the end of runway 03/21 there’s a memorial to the US troops killed on Dec 12, 1985 when an chartered Arrow Air DC-8 crashed after refueling on its way to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. All 256 on board lost their lives.


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## railiner (Sep 10, 2014)

Great photo's, as usual....thanks so much for posting! 

I wonder if it would have been better, if DRL took over the former Acadian routes, instead of what we have....... :huh:


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 11, 2014)

railiner said:


> I wonder if it would have been better, if DRL took over the former Acadian routes, instead of what we have....... :huh:


DRL did operate the Yarmouth-Halifax route after MacKenzie Lines abandoned it.

But I’ve taken Maritime Bus to the Airport and Halifax several times now since Acadian quite.......also to Moncton on days the Ocean wasn’t running and their service was just fine.


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## railiner (Sep 11, 2014)

NS VIA Fan said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if it would have been better, if DRL took over the former Acadian routes, instead of what we have....... :huh:
> ...


I haven't followed the latest commentary over on the CPTB in a while, but I remember they seemed to have gotten off to a shaky start. I am not a fan of those body-on-chassis buses that I believe they utilize somewhat, either.....

But if they can bring service up to the level that Acadian used to provide, then I am glad to hear it....


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