# Airplanes, trains, goats, France, oh my!



## oregon pioneer (May 24, 2015)

I didn't really know what category to put this discussion in, but I guess more of my questions have to do with air travel than with rail or random disucssion, so here goes:

Advice from seasoned international travelers is eagerly sought. I have been invited to participate in a "chick trip" this August, where the ultimate destination for us three sixty-something women is a week of volunteer work on an organic goat dairy farm in France (long story, but my sister's friend knows the dairy farmer, and wanted to help her get a much-needed vacation). I have many rural-living skills, and I've milked a goat exactly once, so I guess that makes me at least as qualified as the friend who volunteered us.

Getting to the farm involves almost 20 hours on planes: RDM (in Oregon), to SLC, to BOS then an overnight flight to Paris/CDG, all on Delta. Then, without any additional sleep, we'll be boarding a local or regional train for another 4 hours or so. Now, I have not been to Europe since about 1983, and I know a _lot _has changed since then. Here are just a few of my questions (I am sure I will think of more later):


What do you wear on the plane these days? I seem to remember someone being denied boarding on an international flight, oh, a long time ago, for "inappropriate attire" (sweat suits). I know things have changed, and on such a long trip, comfort is my absolute first priority. It could also be hot, but airports should be air-conditioned, right? And planes fly at nice, cold altitides. I was thinking of capri leggings, or at least loose khakis, and a t-shirt, with an extra layer or two in case the air-conditioning gets overly enthusiastic. How about shoes? I'm not sure sandals are smart, but they are comfortable and I can kick them off.
It looks like I will be carrying-on my bags as far as Boston, then checking one for the flight to Paris. What items do you keep in your onboard tote so you can access them during the trip? What items absolutely should be put in your checked bag, instead of your carry-on?
Phones: Mine will be useless as soon as we take off from BOS, but I know I need to have it with me for this side of the pond, then it gets put away. Can you buy a prepaid phone easily in Europe? How much should I expect a simple "dumb" phone (are they even available any more?) to cost?
Flying there is just something I have to do in order to *be* there. The first part of the journey that I actually look forward to is the train from Paris to Vesoul. Friend-who-knows-farmer will be letting us know whether it's more practical to take the local train to Vesoul, or the regional to Dijon and the local back a couple stops. Can't wait to see how that, and the rest of the trip work out!


----------



## AmtrakBlue (May 24, 2015)

As far as clothing on planes. You capris and t-shirts should be fine. I just did a cross-country trip by planes and wore lightweight comfortable jeans and t-shirts and a light-weight hoody. I also wore my sneakers and just untied them during the flights. It's best to wear tie shoes in case your feet swell during the flight, you can just loosen them up.


----------



## Bob Dylan (May 24, 2015)

Outstanding! Look forward to your trip reports on this adventure!

Betty is right, dress comfortably in old clothes ( nothing new!) that are a little loose, and sneakers are excellent travel footwear! I like Levi 501s myself, wore them all over the world as my travel uniform!

Sorry I can't help with your other questions,I haven't crossed the pond in 25 years!


----------



## jis (May 24, 2015)

I would also recommend a tied shoe that you can easily take off once you get to high enough altitude, just in case of any emergency at low altitude.

I generally carry just basic reading material, headphones, camera, critical documents, laptop and any other pensive gadgetry with me in hand baggage. On international flights I usually carry on simple change of clothing with me in hand baggage too. The rest gets checked in.

If you have an unlocked GSM phone, which being an American telephone customer you most likely don't (can't easily have such freedoms that work against the interest of large corporations in the land of the free  ), you can easily buy a local SIM. If you have a locked GSM phone you can get you company here to sell you a roaming pack for some ridiculous price. But best is to buy a pay as you go phone there. They are not that expensive. Only the second choice will retain your current number. Others will require some form of forwarding, or just using a different number.

If you would like to experience the TGV take one to Dijon and take a local back to your destination, it will cost a bit more.


----------



## CHamilton (May 24, 2015)

Also, check to make sure that your working on a French farm won't cause issues on your return. IIRC, the Americans do ask if you've been on a farm during your travels.


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 24, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Betty is right, dress comfortably in old clothes ( nothing new!) that are a little loose, and sneakers are excellent travel footwear!


OK, sneakers it is, I was thinking of the safety issues already. Old clothes? I shop at thrift stores for anything I don't already have, does that count? :giggle:

I scored a lovely salmon-pink Patagonia t-shirt for $6.99 at Goodwill in Bend the other day. :wub:



jis said:


> If you have an unlocked GSM phone...
> 
> If you would like to experience the TGV take one to Dijon and take a local back to your destination, it will cost a bit more.


I don't know what GSM is, but I do know that my old-tech "dumb" phone does not have a chance of qualifying for foreign use. I do appreciate the thought, though. I will look for a pay-as-you-go phone. I'll probably only need it for making connections in case we get separated.

Oh, and the TGV, ooh-la-la! It's not my decision to make (I'm the junior partner in this), but I certainly will suggest it!



CHamilton said:


> Also, check to make sure that your working on a French farm won't cause issues on your return. IIRC, the Americans do ask if you've been on a farm during your travels.


Oo, had not thought of that. :blink: Will do some checking into it. Thanks for the tip, Charlie!


----------



## Bob Dylan (May 24, 2015)

"..How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm,

Once they've seen Paree?.."

Charlie is right, it is a question that HLS asks upon entry into the US! Have no idea why???

Edited out the G Word per request, it only applies to the corrupt DEA which evidently some of our members haven't had to deal with in their travels, and HLS= Homeland Security/(DEA)


----------



## AmtrakBlue (May 24, 2015)

Jim, I'm not surprised. Farms can be very germy and we don't need farm germs from other countries invading our farms.

PRR 60 and Jis gave much better explanations than I came up with.


----------



## PRR 60 (May 24, 2015)

Because someone who has visited a farm overseas may be carrying disease that may not be in this country and could be harmful. The typical result is that the those who answer yes may be asked to have shoes disinfected.


----------



## jis (May 24, 2015)

Their concern used to be hoof and mouth disease brought in in farm soil on ones shoes. Don't know what the current worry is.

BTW, I think the danger of bringing in non native diseases that can devastate the farm stock is legitimate and has not much to do with the G-word in any way. Also, I believe that the U.S. customs folks have a very legitimate role to play which is very distinct from anything that the G-word folks were responsible for, and the U.S. Customs generally do a very good job too.

BTW who is HLS? The farm and food import inspection is mostly a Department of Agriculture thing for protecting from import of infections that may affect agriculture. There is rudimentary agricultural inspection involved even on visits to Alaska or Hawaii, which is usually not very noticeable.


----------



## gswager (May 24, 2015)

The reason why they ask if they did on farms is to prevent spread of disease, esp. with Mad Cow Disease, or BSE.


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 24, 2015)

Took a while, and lots of attempts at finding the right search terms, but I found it:



> On the customs declaration form for returning to the U.S., you'll have to indicate whether or not you visited a farm or were in close proximity to livestock on your trip. Check "yes," and you'll be pulled aside for a separate screening and usually have your shoes (the ones you wore on the farm) sprayed with a disinfectant. This is to avoid the spread of foot-and-mouth disease, but it may cost you extra time and make getting through customs a hassle. The upside? Sometimes the agricultural inspection line is shorter than the general customs line, so you may get through quickly even if you have to spend some time getting your shoes cleaned. While this delay might cost you a bit of time, we'd never recommend lying about where you've been on your trip.


Some other good advice, as well, in this 2013 article. But for me, they key points are: clean up shoes before departing France. Answer question truthfully. Expect a short delay.


----------



## jis (May 24, 2015)

Ah! So it is still Foot and Mouth disease that is the main concern!


----------



## Bob Dylan (May 25, 2015)

jis said:


> Ah! So it is still Foot and Mouth disease that is the main concern!


"Foot" and Mouth Disease? LOL!! 
I thought in Europe it was Mad Cow Disease!


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 25, 2015)

This story, and the other most recent one I could find, date from 2013. I will do a little more research and see if it's a current concern anywhere.


----------



## railbuck (May 25, 2015)

oregon pioneer said:


> It looks like I will be carrying-on my bags as far as Boston, then checking one for the flight to Paris. What items do you keep in your onboard tote so you can access them during the trip? What items absolutely should be put in your checked bag, instead of your carry-on?


Why check the bag in BOS? Either check it all the way through from RDM, or carry it all the way and avoid CDG baggage claim (recommended). If checking, make sure not to put medications or electronics in the checked bag.



oregon pioneer said:


> Oh, and the TGV, ooh-la-la! It's not my decision to make (I'm the junior partner in this), but I certainly will suggest it!


While the TGV would be fun, there's two strikes against it in practical terms on this itinerary. First, it departs from Gare de Lyon, which looks like a pain to get to from the airport, especially jet-lagged with luggage. The Intercites train departing from Paris Est is a much easier transfer from the RER at Paris Nord (still a couple blocks walk, but you'll want the exercise at that point). Second, both bahn.de and SNCF route you to Besancon on the TGV and then a 45 minute ride on a bus. And I doubt that bus will be luggage-friendly. I'd recommend saving the TGV for another time.


----------



## jis (May 25, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Ah! So it is still Foot and Mouth disease that is the main concern!
> ...


Read up a bit more and you will see that for Mad Cow there is nothing to check other than infected livestock or produce from such at the border, and there is no test to detect tainted produce. It is contracted by eating such. Consequently food import in general is looked down upon anyway, and checked for. You cannot contract Mad Cow disease or its infecting agent my merely hanging out in farms. Foot and mouth disease OTOH is transmitted through organisms in soil.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (May 25, 2015)

Jennifer, I would also suggest knee high socks or support socks for the planes.

http://www.webmd.com/dvt/news/20050616/compression-stockings-cut-in-flight-clot-risk


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 25, 2015)

OK, sounds like the decider in our group will probably not choose the TGV. Walking and/or toting luggage is not an issue for us (we are all in good shape and will be packing light), but we will end up going the most efficient way, and it sounds like the local from Paris Est is probably it.

Hmm, not having done this in such a long, long time (and having flown direct from Seattle last time), I assumed I might have to claim my bag in Boston anyway for the transfer. If I can indeed check it all the way from RDM to CDG, I will do it. My personal carry-on is a messenger bag, so I can easiy fit anything I need for the flight in it.

I see that goats are in the class of animals that can get foot and mouth disease. Here's the form that everyoine has to fill out on entry to the US: http://www.immihelp.com/immigration/sample-us-customs-form-6059b.html. I will have to answer affirmatively to questions 11(d) and 12. Since I will be handling (milking) the animals, it may be more comlicated than shoe-cleaning, but I am sure it is something that happens every day at customs.


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 25, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Jennifer, I would also suggest knee high socks or support socks for the planes.
> 
> http://www.webmd.com/dvt/news/20050616/compression-stockings-cut-in-flight-clot-risk


Yup, going to look at them at our local drugstore tomorrow. I'm a squirmer, and not too worried that I can sit still long enough to have isses, LOL, but I've heard enough good things about them that I want to do it anyway.


----------



## tp49 (May 25, 2015)

Yes on the compression socks. I had my ankles swell up like no other on a trans pac and have worn them ever since. Noise canceling headphones are also a must to dim the cabin noise. I bought a pair before my first Europe trip a couple years back and wondered how I ever did trans pacs without them. The difference is night and day.

One thing to look into is Delta offers a non-stop to CDG from SLC which if the tickets haven't been purchased yet might be more palatable. Also, the more connections increases the risk of your luggage misconnecting and not arriving with you which I experienced a couple of years ago. One connection is my max as two connections made my luggage reappear a couple days after arrival. I'd use my checked bag to bring back my maximum allotment of French wine.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (May 25, 2015)

I get antsy sitting on a plane for long periods of time, so my recent trip was 3 planes out to CA and 2 planes back to CHI and then a train home. I had a checked bag and it made it to both destinations fine (well, it was wet when it got to ORD - I guess PHX doesn't know how to handle luggage in pouring rain.   )


----------



## railbuck (May 25, 2015)

oregon pioneer said:


> Hmm, not having done this in such a long, long time (and having flown direct from Seattle last time), I assumed I might have to claim my bag in Boston anyway for the transfer. If I can indeed check it all the way from RDM to CDG, I will do it. My personal carry-on is a messenger bag, so I can easiy fit anything I need for the flight in it.


The only reason you'd have to claim the checked bag in BOS on the eastbound flights is if you had a very long (such as overnight) layover. Otherwise you check the bag in RDM and (with luck) will see it again at CDG.

However, on the way back, you will have to claim the checked luggage at your first stop in the US, take it through customs, and drop it off again with Delta before clearing security for your connecting flight. If it's already tagged through to RDM when you check in at CDG, it's just a matter of putting it on the belt. It may be possible (depending on the airport and the bag's contents) to change a bag from checked to carry-on or from carry-on to checked at this point, but I wouldn't advise it unless there's a good reason.


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 25, 2015)

I'm with Betty on the three planes. Boston breaks up the "long sit" better, and besides, it's where my sister will board (and traveling with Sis trumps a shorter trip, in my book).

Railbuck, thanks for the good info on checking bags re: direction of travel. So, they don't care what I take out of the country, but they really *do* care what I bring back in, eh? It just so happens that the schedule works better on the return trip to have an overnight in Boston, and the side bennies (seeing the rest of Sis's family, including my twin grand-nevvies, for the evening) are also unbeatable. So I will be reclaiming my bag in Boston, and probably carry-on from there.


----------



## jis (May 27, 2015)

It is more like they don't care if you leave the country but they want to make absolutely sure that you are eligible for entering the country. The bags just incidentally go for the ride attached to you, and sometimes they care to check what you are bringing in, but that is usually quite rare. Just your little declaration on a form that you are not being naughty is enough to satisfy them.


----------



## oregon pioneer (May 27, 2015)

jis said:


> It is more like they don't care if you leave the country but they want to make absolutely sure that you are eligible for entering the country. The bags just incidentally go for the ride attached to you, and sometimes they care to check what you are bringing in, but that is usually quite rare. Just your little declaration on a form that you are not being naughty is enough to satisfy them.


:giggle:

I think they will be way more worried about any germs I am bringing from the farm, than about anything I might buy (I certainly can't afford much). I did some more research about the farm animal questions, and it will probably satisfy them that I am not going from a farm in France to a farm in the US. They will, of course, want to see my shoes and probably disinfect them. I wonder what kind of solution they use.


----------



## oregon pioneer (Aug 21, 2015)

As promised, I am reporting back on the trip. I had a great time, posted my photos (including a few train photos) to facebook. Didn't get to take the TGV this time. The regional train was just so much more direct, and had only three stops. Here's the public link: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10200669530656499&type=1&l=4dcf936bbb (you do not need to be on facebook to see photos with this link).

I did wear the compression socks, and my feet felt much better than after other long flights I had done in the past. No swelling or achiness. I also used a butt-cushion (made like a backpack mattress, but smaller) on any seat that felt hard. This made sleeping (which I did at every opportunity) much easier.

The last photo in the album is me throwing away my shoes before leaving the farm. When I went through customs, with my declaration form honestly filled out, they steered me to the USDA inspection station. There I assured them that the only shoes I was bringing back in were my "tourist sandals" as the farm ones had been thrown away. The agent (who was friendly and efficient) also queried me about whether I lived in a rural area "with cows and sheep." I answered that I did, but I only had cats and chickens at my place. That satisfied her, and I was allowed to proceed with all my stuff intact (including the bag of stone-ground organic bread flour from the local market, which did not seem to interest them at all).


----------

