# Keystone Service, Pennsylvania...



## HARHBG (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm asking the membership's help with this one. So many of you have an in-depth understanding of the operations of Amtrak that someone out there might know who i can ask for further info.

Keystone Service in Pennsylvania is funded by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. To what degree it is funded I don't know. Due to the current "Budget Crisis" here in PA I want to know if this train could be suddenly cancelled. I have reservations for this train extending out to early December, '15.

I've sent Amtrak 2 e-mails. Answers are non-committal No plans to cancel service at this time...blah, blah....

Sent e-mails to Commonwealth Reps..............no replies, not surprising....

Just returned from Amtrak Station, Harrisburg, spoke with Amtrak Agent, agent told me it could stop tomorrow, no notice. No clear info as to whether Amtrak will continue to "carry" Keystone Service until budget is passed or????

A number of other states have local Amtrak service funded by those states. What has happened in those states when there is a problem with the State funding and any ideas as to who to contact at Amtrak .......going past the Amtrak e-mail...... for any possible info?


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## niemi24s (Oct 3, 2015)

I suspect the answer to your question must come from Pennsylvania and not Amtrak. Specifically you need to find out when the current funding obligation by the State expires and if there are any measures in the works to either renew or extend it. And call your State Representatives - emails may be a waste of time.


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## neroden (Oct 3, 2015)

In practice, Illinois state-funded trains are still running even though Illinois has the budget crisis from hell, with no budget many months into the fiscal year, state employees not getting paid, and the governor actively threatening to cut the train service.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/09/30/3707115/illinois-budget-impasse/

Governor Rauner is a genuine monster, a sick parody of humanity, willing to hold the entire state hostage in order to ram through his anti-union bills. Apparently there aren't quite enough votes in the state legislature to impeach him yet.

Apparently Amtrak is willing to extend credit to Illinois even under these circumstances.

Pennsylvania is in a much better situation: support for Keystone Service and Pennsylvanian is bipartisan at this point and nobody is seriously threatening to cut it. Whatever budget eventually gets passed will almost certainly fund it.

As a result, Amtrak will almost certainly extend credit to Pennsylvania and keep operating the train for many months if the budget is delayed. Don't worry about it.


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 3, 2015)

Don't the Keystone trains (also with SEPTA and Pittsburgh's PAT and local transit agencies) now have some kind of dedicated funding? In any case, Amtrak probably has a contract to run the trains through the next fiscal year, so, despite what the ticket agent told you, there would be plenty of notice before any discontinuance of service. As Neorden noted, Illinois doesn't even have a budget and the trains are running with no notice of discontinuance. You seem to worry about a lot of stuff. Just sit back and relax.


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 3, 2015)

When all is said and done, these routes lose very, very small amounts of money. Maybe $10 or $20 or even $50 million a year are small figures in state budgets of many Billions. And the trend lines are pretty good for both the _Keystone _and the _Lincoln Service_ (St Louis-Chicago).

A little work has been on-going along the _Keystone_ route -- eliminating a grade crossing, rebuilding a station, some track work, or the like. As service improves, operating losses will probably not grow at all in the near future, but stay flat or decrease. Planning work continues to use some of that dedicated funding for more serious upgrades -- after some of SEPTA's more urgent projects get fixed -- that would bring operating surpluses.

In Illinois, the problem is fanaticism.

Estimates suggest that the _Lincoln Service_ breaks even or makes a modest operating surplus. Any such surplus gets soaked up by the trains from Chicago south to Carbondale, or west to Galesburg and Quincy, but even those losses are no big thing.

Meanwhile the St Louis-Chicago route is benefiting from a $1 Billion investment to bring almost 75% of the line up to 110-mph service by Sept 2017 (or possibly sooner). The Stimulus funded project should cut travel times by 30 or 40 minutes, and provide shiny new bi-level cars to carry 30% more passengers. When the new faster trains go to work, with greater capacity and no doubt slightly higher fares, the route will throw off a much larger operating surplus. The losses from the Carbondale or Quincy routes will be covered by the surplus on the main line, and the state will pay no passenger rail subsidy at all.

Under the previous Governor, the plan was to add more trains, to the Quad Cities and to Rockford, so a subsidy would have continued, but benefiting passengers on new trains serving more of the state.

The current Governor set out to undermine the effort to expand passenger rail saying it was because of the forecast subsidies needed. And he effectively ended one smallish project. But he can't be crazy enuff to cancel the _Lincoln Service_ that will be showing fat surpluses starting next year or the next.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 3, 2015)

I wouldn't be the house on any Politician doing the sensible thing now a days, especially when it comes to Passenger Rail!


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## ronkstevens (Oct 3, 2015)

I wouldn't worry. First, even when the Federal government shuts down due to budget bickering Amtrak continues to run. As others have stated, Pennsylvania has strong bipartisan support for rail (although the amount and level of dedication vary). Any budget would not slash funds to cancel service. Also the _Keystone_ is a good performer for Amtrak, and there would be quite an uproar from those that utilize that train that any smart politician would back down. With the schedule change going into effect on Monday (600/609 now terminating/originating at NYP) I think it's safe to say that the Keystone isn't going away.


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## neroden (Oct 4, 2015)

WoodyinNYC said:


> The current Governor set out to undermine the effort to expand passenger rail saying it was because of the forecast subsidies needed. And he effectively ended one smallish project. But he can't be crazy enuff to cancel the _Lincoln Service_ that will be showing fat surpluses starting next year or the next.


I actually expect the Quad Cities extension to get built anyway. It's federal money and I think Illinois knows that they shouldn't pull a Scott Walker or a Rick Scott by giving it back. Furthermore, most of the engineering and some of the construction (the BNSF portion) has been done already, and the cities along the line -- particularly Moline -- are very, very eager for it. Moline's already building the train station out of its own pocket and will be *mad* if they don't get their train. Finally, given the enormous population of the Quad Cities and how many people from Iowa visit Chicago, it's going to be one of the best-perfoming lines out of Chicago.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 5, 2015)

I think the Keystone will be fine. Remember, at one end of the line, you have corporate types from NYC; at the other end, you have Harrisburg politicians. Some of them take that train (almost like a commuter train), so they won't want any train that they take cancelled.


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## afigg (Oct 5, 2015)

neroden said:


> I actually expect the Quad Cities extension to get built anyway. It's federal money and I think Illinois knows that they shouldn't pull a Scott Walker or a Rick Scott by giving it back. Furthermore, most of the engineering and some of the construction (the BNSF portion) has been done already, and the cities along the line -- particularly Moline -- are very, very eager for it. Moline's already building the train station out of its own pocket and will be *mad* if they don't get their train. Finally, given the enormous population of the Quad Cities and how many people from Iowa visit Chicago, it's going to be one of the best-perfoming lines out of Chicago.


The Quad Cities extension is almost all funded by federal money as I recall. If the Governor were to kill the project now, besides getting Moline and the other towns on the route mad, the state would be on the hook to repay the federal government all the federal funds spent to date on the project. Don't know how much that is, but it is likely to a be fair amount this far into the project. I expect the Quad Cities extension will happen. It is the fate of the Chicago to Dubuque corridor service that I don't know about one way or the other.
As for the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services, despite the state government budget standoff, pretty sure they are quite safe. That might be because of the state transportation funding and gas tax increase deal of several years ago. Don't know how the revenue and outlay accounts are structured, but PennDOT is still collecting the increased gas tax revenue, despite a budget standoff. PennDOT's spending of their revenue may have a degree of protection from the annual budget process.


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