# Could Transmashholding expand to North America?



## NeueAmtrakCalifornia (Mar 4, 2020)

With Bombardier to sell its rail equipment to Alstom, its factory in Plattsburgh, NY is very likely not going to be retained by Alstom as they already have a factory in Hornell, NY. This would lead to Alstom having to sell it to someone else. The other railcar manufacturers either have a location in the state (Kawasaki, CAF) or are already content with having a factory as is (Stadler, CRRC, Siemens, Hitachi). This leaves a new player in town as the only choice. Currently, there appears to be only one company who might choose to establish a presence in North America: the Russian-based Transmashholding. Transmashholding has started expanding beyond Russia, the CIS and Eastern Europe, such as into Africa by acquiring the DCD Rolling Stock plant in Boksburg, South Africa, with the intent of manufacturing rolling stock for Africa. With Bombardier's Plattsburgh, NY plant potentially to go into sale once Alstom completes the final outstanding orders from that factory, Transmashholding could make a big to acquire the location, thus establishing a presence in the US.


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## jis (Mar 4, 2020)

Factories can and do get shut down and abandoned too [emoji57]


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## NeueAmtrakCalifornia (Mar 4, 2020)

jis said:


> Factories can and do get shut down and abandoned too [emoji57]



But given that Plattsburgh NY pretty likely does not want to suffer a loss in jobs...


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## jis (Mar 4, 2020)

NeueAmtrakCalifornia said:


> But given that Plattsburgh NY pretty likely does not want to suffer a loss in jobs...



Even then, factories do close and cities/regions do lose jobs. Factories also get repurposed. Just because a factory produces rail equipment today does not mean it has to do so tomorrow.


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## dlagrua (Mar 5, 2020)

As Jis has said, factories close irrespective of the needs of the citizens in that area. The political process controls where the jobs go. Have you been to Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore or New Jersey lately? The are are thousands of acres and hundreds of abandoned factories where Americans once made a living.


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## jis (Mar 5, 2020)

dlagrua said:


> As Jis has said, factories close irrespective of the needs of the citizens in that area. The political process controls where the jobs go. Have you been to Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore or New Jersey lately? The are are thousands of acres and hundreds of abandoned factories where Americans once made a living.


So true. Though for reasons that are not at all obvious to me, NJ seems to have done a much better job of reclaiming and repurposing old factory property into new residential and commercial developments than both Philly and Baltimore. What used to be horribly blighted areas of Newark around the NEC and NJT are now mostly new residential or commercial areas, or even just park land in some cases. But still the factories are mostly gone for good, barring a few exceptions, like pharma.


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## Anderson (Mar 5, 2020)

jis said:


> So true. Though for reasons that are not at all obvious to me, NJ seems to have done a much better job of reclaiming and repurposing old factory property into new residential and commercial developments than both Philly and Baltimore. What used to be horribly blighted areas of Newark around the NEC and NJT are now mostly new residential or commercial areas, or even just park land in some cases. But still the factories are mostly gone for good, barring a few exceptions, like pharma.


I think at least part of that has to do with raw demand in the neighborhood: NJ is ripe for "spillover" from NYS (partly tax reasons) while the same thing doesn't apply to Baltimore (though Baltimore _is_ doing better in this respect than it was). I think Baltimore is hurt by the fact that plenty of folks from DC will opt to go to Fredericksburg or elsewhere in VA instead of heading north.


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## sttom (Mar 10, 2020)

Given how hysteric the government is about Russia, I wouldn't expect them to be winning many contracts even if they tried.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 11, 2020)

Russian made products are, generally speaking, well made, high quality, and very inexpensive for what they are. Since I discovered this in the late 90s importing Poljot (Pawl-yoat) I have been involved in a number of ventures importing watches (Poljot, Vostok, Slava, and Raketa) as well as winter clothing, tools, cameras, and boots. I am currently toying with the idea of trying Russian power tools, god knows why.

Selling Russian goods in the US is... frankly a fools errand. They are good products generally, if a bit over-built and low-tech- way better than cheap Chinese stuff. But almost all Americans assume they are complete garbage, and you have to overcome that incorrect assumption before you even get to the messy politics of it. Transmash has a good reputation, but add “government contract” to that mix and like in Brooklyn, fuhgeddaboudit.


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## me_little_me (Mar 13, 2020)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I am currently toying with the idea of trying Russian power tools, god knows why.


I heard Putin has put in election-hacking chips in electric drills! Read it on the internet so it must be true.


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## jis (Mar 13, 2020)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I am currently toying with the idea of trying Russian power tools, god knows why.


You always had an adventurous streak in you


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## NeueAmtrakCalifornia (Mar 13, 2020)

Forgot to mention this but there's also the possibility of Transmashholding establishing base in Mexico by acquiring Bombardier's Ciudad Sahagún plant if Alstom chooses not to retain it. Given the Mexican government's attempts in re-establishing passenger rail (so far it's just been the Mexico City-Toluca train but they can revive a Mexico City-Santiago de Querétaro line as a 200 km/h train by re-energizing the tracks after the botched HSR attempt with the Chinese) and TMH's willingness in investing in other countries' railways (South Africa and Argentina), TMH could also see Mexico as an opportunity to enter the North American rail network by modernizing at least the Mexico City-Santiago de Querétaro line and building new railway tracks.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 13, 2020)

I've mentioned this before, but when I was in Mexico City last year (almost a year ago, ahhh) the airport had big posters touting the coming high-speed rail system that was either in planning or just starting construction (or just, you know, wished for). 

The corporate saga reminds me of VW's purchase of NSU. NSU made the first wankel engined cars (even before Mazda) and with the Ro80 also designed a stunning car to go with it, from engineering to design. But the problems with the seals on the rotors - and being a smaller auto maker - caused too much financial stress, hence it's sale. It looks strangely like a lot of Audi's over the years, which is exactly what they were - designed and engineered by the NSU designers who VW got with the purchase as they reintroduced the Audi name (there was also a VW version of the Ro80, the K70 iirc).


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## NeueAmtrakCalifornia (Mar 14, 2020)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I've mentioned this before, but when I was in Mexico City last year (almost a year ago, ahhh) the airport had big posters touting the coming high-speed rail system that was either in planning or just starting construction (or just, you know, wished for).



There is one rail line in construction: The Mexico City-Toluca train, and it's not really high speed since it will run at 160 km/h. Also it will terminate at Metro Observatario, which is west of Buenavista (I can imagine it would increase the costs a lot by building a tunnel link to that station as it would have to deal with the metro lines it crosses), though it would enable through-running and integration with the Tren Suburbano system.


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## Willbridge (Mar 15, 2020)

Note that the Oregon and Colorado steel mills are subsidiaries of a Russian steel firm. The smoother new segments of the SWC route use Pueblo steel. Parts of the Denver rail transit network roll on Pueblo steel, including -- if one looks closely -- segments cast when they melted up the old Mile High Stadium.


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## NeueAmtrakCalifornia (Mar 19, 2020)

A little food for thought: The CAF plant in Elmira was formerly used by Sumirail (Sumitomo Rail) (1986-1989), ABB and later ADTranz (early 1990s-2000). After ADTranz completed their final order for SEPTA's Market-Frankford line, with no new work on the horizon, they were going to close it down, and Bombardier wasn't going to save it as they had their own facility in Plattsburgh NY. Then CAF purchased the site and it remained more-or-less dormant until Amtrak's Viewlier II order in the early 2010s. Now Bombardier's Plattsburgh NY plant is going to be on the receiving end by Alstom.


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## Asher (Mar 21, 2020)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Russian made products are, generally speaking, well made, high quality, and very inexpensive for what they are. Since I discovered this in the late 90s importing Poljot (Pawl-yoat) I have been involved in a number of ventures importing watches (Poljot, Vostok, Slava, and Raketa) as well as winter clothing, tools, cameras, and boots. I am currently toying with the idea of trying Russian power tools, god knows why.
> 
> Selling Russian goods in the US is... frankly a fools errand. They are good products generally, if a bit over-built and low-tech- way better than cheap Chinese stuff. But almost all Americans assume they are complete garbage, and you have to overcome that incorrect assumption before you even get to the messy politics of it. Transmash has a good reputation, but add “government contract” to that mix and like in Brooklyn, fuhgeddaboudit.


Would you buy a Russian car, would it be for performance, style, durability?


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## jiml (Mar 22, 2020)

anumberone said:


> Would you buy a Russian car, would it be for performance, style, durability?


On that subject, was the Lada ever sold in the US?


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## v v (Mar 22, 2020)

anumberone said:


> Would you buy a Russian car, would it be for performance, style, durability?



Yes, a Zil


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 22, 2020)

Да 

I would buy any Russian product. It’s generally significantly cheaper, and significantly more durable. It’s designed so that when it breaks it can easily be fixed. 

I also think I’m one of the few Russian speakers on this board.


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## v v (Mar 22, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> Да
> 
> I would buy any Russian product. It’s generally significantly cheaper, and significantly more durable. It’s designed so that when it breaks it can easily be fixed.
> 
> *I also think I’m one of the few Russian speakers on this board*.



What!


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## MARC Rider (Mar 22, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> I also think I’m one of the few Russian speakers on this board.



I took a year of Russian in college (40 years ago), but I don't remember much other than the Cyrillic alphabet and stuff like "Comrade Volkov works at a collective farm," and "_Ya nichevo nye znayoo"_ ("I don't know anything.")


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 22, 2020)

jiml said:


> On that subject, was the Lada ever sold in the US?


Dont believe so but it was sold in Canada!


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 22, 2020)

v v said:


> What!



Yes I’ve had a lot of time over the years and I’ve taught myself Russian. And I communicate with friends in Russia almost everyday in Russian. It’s not a super hard language once you get passed the alphabet.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 22, 2020)

v v said:


> What!


Most of the Russian stuff I've seen has been old technology,poorly built and breaks down often with parts hard to impossible to get. YMMV


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## Asher (Mar 22, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> I took a year of Russian in college (40 years ago), but I don't remember much other than the Cyrillic alphabet and stuff like "Comrade Volkov works at a collective farm," and "_Ya nichevo nye znayoo"_ ("I don't know anything.")


I'm adding that " Ya nichevo nye znayoo" to my repertoire for handling panhandlers.


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## jiml (Mar 23, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Most of the Russian stuff I've seen has been old technology,poorly built and breaks down often with parts hard to impossible to get. YMMV


Couldn't agree more. You were correct that they sold Ladas here for a couple of years and everything you said was true - old tech, poorly built and no parts. There weren't many days in my commuting life back then that you wouldn't see one broken down roadside somewhere. I guess they were cheap though.


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## Asher (Mar 23, 2020)

The Rooskies probably don't want to take credit for the Wonder Car YUGO. ( One had to wonder who would buy it and where it would break down. ). They were running the show back then.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 23, 2020)

jiml said:


> Couldn't agree more. You were correct that they sold Ladas here for a couple of years and everything you said was true - old tech, poorly built and no parts. There weren't many days in my commuting life back then that you wouldn't see one broken down roadside somewhere. I guess they were cheap though.


Sort of like all of the Foriegn Cars into the US when First Sold here ( including Japan,France,England,Italy and Korea)except Volvo,Saab, VW and the other German makes!


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## MARC Rider (Mar 23, 2020)

anumberone said:


> The Rooskies probably don't want to take credit for the Wonder Car YUGO. ( One had to wonder who would buy it and where it would break down. ). They were running the show back then.


I don't think the Russians had much to do with the Yugo, or even communist Yugoslavia. For those who don't remember the Cold War, look up "Tito." (as in Josip Broz, not the vodka brand made in Texas.)


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 23, 2020)

The Yugo was based on an Italian Fiat which was a Piece of Junk, even before it was produced in the Soviet Block!

Except for the First Korean Cars and the Pinto , probably the worst piece of crapola ever sold as a "Car!"


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## toddinde (Mar 24, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> The Yugo was based on an Italian Fiat which was a Piece of Junk, even before it was produced in the Soviet Block!
> 
> Except for the First Korean Cars and the Pinto , probably the worst piece of crapola ever sold as a "Car!"


Yugoslavia was not the Soviet block. Tito was communist, but went his own way.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 24, 2020)

toddinde said:


> Yugoslavia was not the Soviet block. Tito was communist, but went his own way.


Technically neither was Poland,Hungary and East Germany! Iron Curtain Countries were NOT under Soviet Control if you believe Gerald Ford in his 1976 debates with Jimmy Carter!
NOT!!!


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 24, 2020)

Yes I would buy a Russian car, and durability primarily. Different nations tend to have different standards for what something has to hold up to; Russian made stuff is generally designed to be capable of handling several times the required operating specification, on the premise that all maintenance is performed by a simpleton, and the original assembly was done by a drunk.

That is not an example of my sense of humor, by the way. That really is how they are built.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 24, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Technically neither was Poland,Hungary and East Germany! Iron Curtain Countries were NOT under Soviet Control if you believe Gerald Ford in his 1976 debates with Jimmy Carter!
> NOT!!!


Actually, Yugoslavia was not a member of the Warsaw Pact, and after 1948 it did not consider itself part of the "Soviet Bloc." It was communist, but Tito's version of Communism. Thus, you really can't consider it part of the "Soviet Bloc."

Fun fact: Every country outside of Russia that used to be in the Warsaw Pact (plus the Baltic states, Slovenia, and Croatia) is now a member of NATO.


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## toddinde (Mar 26, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Technically neither was Poland,Hungary and East Germany! Iron Curtain Countries were NOT under Soviet Control if you believe Gerald Ford in his 1976 debates with Jimmy Carter!
> NOT!!!


Completely different. Those countries were in the Soviet block. Yugoslavia was not. Those countries were in the Warsaw Pact. Yugoslavia was not. Yugoslavia was a communist party, but that doesn’t mean it was in the Soviet block. And Ford was an idiot for saying that.


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