# What is the Longest 2-Zone Loophole?



## AAARGH! (May 26, 2009)

I know this has been discussed several time before, but I am going to ask again to try to conglomerate the possible answers into one place.

What is the _maximum_ time that can be spent on the train using a 2-zone reward?

I have a 6-day / 5 night itinerary: Starting in SLO --> Pacific Surfliner --> Texas Eagle --> Cardinal --> Crescent --> ending in Slidell, LA.

What other 6-day / 5 night loopholes are there OR are there any that are 6 nights?

Are there any that include the Coast Starlight for a longer distance (longer than PDX to SEA for instance)?

I don't really care if it is East to West or the reverse.

Thanks.


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## the_traveler (May 26, 2009)

As if you need to ask me! 

Another 4 night trip would be SDL-SEA via the Crescent-CL-CZ and the CS from SAC. You leave SDL @ 8:02 AM on day 1 and arrive SEA @ 8:45 PM on day 5.

Now if you want a *LONG* 1 zone award, how about ELP-SDL That will leave ELP @ 9 AM on day 1, go to CHI and WAS via the TE and CL before getting to SDL on the Crescent on day 5!

Give me a minute - and I'll find more!


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## GoldenSpike (May 26, 2009)

Just out of curiosity I plugged in VAN (b/t SEA and near PDX)-ELP to see what the cost would be. I get this error message:

*Problem Finding Service: Sorry, we cannot find train service matching your request. Please try alternate stations/cities. *

*To learn more about trains available at a particular station, please click on the 'Stations' tab above.*

Say what? CS goes to LAX. From there one can go to ELP. Arrow can't be that confused can it?


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## JayPea (May 26, 2009)

I believe Arrow considers that a multi-city trip, as that particular trip requires an overnight stay in Los Angeles. The CS arrives in Los Angeles at 9PM and the SL/TE doesn't depart LA for points east until 2:30PM the next day. It worked when I plugged it in as a multi-city trip.


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## AlanB (May 27, 2009)

One cannot book AGR trips online that require connections. Going from VAN to ELP is a connecting trip, and therefore cannot be booked online. Such a trip can only be booked via an AGR agent.

The overnight doesn't help matters either, but the real key is that you cannot book connecting trains via the online AGR system, unlike the normal Amtrak paid site. You also cannot book sleepers via the online system. That also requires a phone call.


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## GoldenSpike (May 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> One cannot book AGR trips online that require connections. Going from VAN to ELP is a connecting trip, and therefore cannot be booked online. Such a trip can only be booked via an AGR agent.
> The overnight doesn't help matters either, but the real key is that you cannot book connecting trains via the online AGR system, unlike the normal Amtrak paid site. You also cannot book sleepers via the online system. That also requires a phone call.


Thanks Alan. It wasn't meant to be an AGR. I simply did a plain vanilla cost test, so the overnight factor as you both mention is the culprit.


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 27, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> Now if you want a *LONG* 1 zone award, how about ELP-SDL That will leave ELP @ 9 AM on day 1, go to CHI and WAS via the TE and CL before getting to SDL on the Crescent on day 5!


Can you expand on this one? I'm not seeing how that works :lol:


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## HP_Lovecraft (May 27, 2009)

ELP-CHI 9am mon - 2pm tue

CHI-WAS 7pm tue - 1pm Thu

WAS-SLD 7pm thu - 6pm Fri

Thats pretty impressive for a 1-zone. You also get pretty a nice 5 hour layover in Chicago and DC. Plenty of time for some basic sightseeing.

Still, I really dislike flying. I end up with painfull ear popping. The furthest 1 zone from Maine appears to be Miami, or SDL.

Though, I guess for myself, I could take Maine to SDL (1 zone), then do the loop above, then SDL back. That might be the longest AGR trip I can get without flying?


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## Cascadia (May 27, 2009)

You wanted a 2 zone award so I hope my mentioning my best scenario 1 zone reward isn't committing "thread drift".

Wolf Point Montana, to Seattle on the Empire Builder

Seattle to (Emeryville?) on the Coast Starlight

(Emeryville?) to Denver on the California Zephyr

Sorry I am not sure the connecting point between the CS and the CZ, but I know I have made a pretend booking of this and the connections can work.

Wouldn't that be fun?


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## Upstate (May 27, 2009)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> ELP-CHI 9am mon - 2pm tueCHI-WAS 7pm tue - 1pm Thu
> 
> WAS-SLD 7pm thu - 6pm Fri
> 
> ...


Maine to SDL is a 2 zone trip. The border is Atlanta.


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## Long Train Runnin' (May 27, 2009)

Cascadia said:


> You wanted a 2 zone award so I hope my mentioning my best scenario 1 zone reward isn't committing "thread drift".
> Wolf Point Montana, to Seattle on the Empire Builder
> 
> Seattle to (Emeryville?) on the Coast Starlight
> ...


The switch between the CZ and CS happens at SAC


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## yarrow (May 27, 2009)

Cascadia said:


> You wanted a 2 zone award so I hope my mentioning my best scenario 1 zone reward isn't committing "thread drift".
> Wolf Point Montana, to Seattle on the Empire Builder
> 
> Seattle to (Emeryville?) on the Coast Starlight
> ...


we have done a 1 zone award spokane to denver (it would be even better to start from wolf point, i agree) but our longest 1 zone redemption was this past january spk-abq. you could go as far past abq as trinidad,co in 1 zone which we did consider


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## Rail Freak (May 27, 2009)

Cascadia said:


> You wanted a 2 zone award so I hope my mentioning my best scenario 1 zone reward isn't committing "thread drift".
> Wolf Point Montana, to Seattle on the Empire Builder
> 
> Seattle to (Emeryville?) on the Coast Starlight
> ...


That was part of my x-country trip last year & it was beautiful!!!


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## AAARGH! (May 27, 2009)

Cascadia said:


> You wanted a 2 zone award so I hope my mentioning my best scenario 1 zone reward isn't committing "thread drift".


I don't mind. It's all interesting to me.  I have considered the long 1-zone Maine to Miami thing. I have even considered my hometown of Cleveland to Miami.

That being said, does anyone have thoughts on my original 2-zone question?


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## makai1976 (May 27, 2009)

It's hardly unique and someone mentioned something similar, but it was nice because it was a trip between someplace I was, and someplace I needed to get to:

Coast Starlight PDX-SAC (1 night)

Zephyr SAC-CHI (2 nights)

Cardinal CHI-CVS (1 night)

Crescent CVS-ATL (1 night)

Six days, five nights, and nice layovers in Sacramento, Chicago, and Charlottesville. The one in Charlottesville was especially nice, a short walk into downtown CVS where there is a big pedestrian zone with cafes and restaurants. Cardinal arrived around 3pm and CRescent left around 9pm.


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## the_traveler (May 27, 2009)

makai1976 said:


> Coast Starlight PDX-SAC (1 night)Zephyr SAC-CHI (2 nights)
> 
> Cardinal CHI-CVS (1 night)
> 
> ...


I did just that in March - except I didn't end in ATL! I ended in *NOL*!  And a 2 zone roomette cost me 20,000 points!


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## GoldenSpike (May 29, 2009)

Yarrow:



> we have done a 1 zone award spokane to denver (it would be even better to start from wolf point, i agree) but our longest 1 zone redemption was this past january spk-abq. you could go as far past abq as trinidad,co in 1 zone which we did consider


How did you do it? Experimented with same and gets rejected.

Or is it a matter of calling AGW to route you that way considering the over night requirement.


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## GoldenSpike (May 29, 2009)

I'm just discovering routing is date-sensitive.

For example SDL - SEA on 6.29: Crescent-CL-SWC-CS

But on 10.6: Crescent-CL-EB-Cascade

Trying to figure out their logic of not keeping one on the EB directly to Seattle.

Instead they divert you off to PDX, then up to Seattle. Granted one gets 100+ more miles on free trip which is a good thing.


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## yarrow (May 29, 2009)

GoldenSpike said:


> Yarrow:
> 
> 
> > we have done a 1 zone award spokane to denver (it would be even better to start from wolf point, i agree) but our longest 1 zone redemption was this past january spk-abq. you could go as far past abq as trinidad,co in 1 zone which we did consider
> ...


we have done trip as an agr award twice (spk-abq) with the overnight in la each time for a single redemption. you need to call agr to get it and it may depend on what agent you talk to. i was surprised the first time as i assumed they would put us on a bus at sacramento, san joaquins to bakersfield and bus to la for a same day connection but they booked it eb to pdx, cs to la (overnight in la at my expense), and swc to abq. the second time i asked for that routing and got it without problem. interestingly, on the return i asked to be booked abq-lax-sea-spk with an overnight in seattle at my expense and they had no problem with that either


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## AlanB (May 29, 2009)

GoldenSpike said:


> I'm just discovering routing is date-sensitive.
> For example SDL - SEA on 6.29: Crescent-CL-SWC-CS
> 
> But on 10.6: Crescent-CL-EB-Cascade
> ...


Routings are both date and time sensative, changing anything can affect what results you see.

However, that doesn't mean that what you see is all of the options. Amtrak.com can only display the first page of results that it gets from ARROW. ARROW on the other hand may very well have two or even three pages of possible combinations. Which is why changing anything can see one option dropping off the list you see. For example, f you're looking at some routing that the three day a week Cardinal could be an option, and you choose a time before 6:00 PM, you may find that trains that you saw on a day that the Cardinal doesn't run, suddenly disaper on a day that the Cardinal does run.

That doesn't mean that the option went away, it's just that Amtrak.com can't show it to you because the Cardinal took a slot on the first page of data from ARROW.

So you often have to manipulate things to try to find the train combination that you want. Failing that. speak with an agent who can see all the possible combinations.


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## GoldenSpike (May 29, 2009)

AlanB said:


> GoldenSpike said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just discovering routing is date-sensitive.
> ...


Thanks Alan. How true as revealed moments ago. Yesterday the 'long' route SDL - CMO (Chemult, OR) showed going

SDL-WAS-CHI-SAC-CMO.

Minutes ago I tried to bring that back up and the only 'long' route SDL - CMO had you on the SWC to LAX then north

to CMO.

Interestingly on my planned awards October trip, on a fare basis having a bedroom the entire trip w/discount via SAC is 4641 mi. @ $3042.

To CMO via LAX w/bedroom it is 457 mi. longer but $391 cheaper.


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