# Why so hard to earn and redeem points now?



## Guest (Jun 5, 2012)

I can not find any double point promotions? I remember they used to offer these all the time and even had some quadruple point promotions. Also the points needed to redeem tickets has gone up 50%. Anyone know the logic behind this drastic watering down of the loyalty program?


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## Exiled in Express (Jun 5, 2012)

One of the pitfalls of a revenue based scheme like AGR is that through inflation and increased demand the earn to burn ratio is sweetened for the particpant at the loss of the sponsor. It now takes less paid trips to reach the award travel level, this is a problem the airlines/mileage based programs don't have as Chicago to New York remains a fixed distance.

Amtrak could either reduce earnings or raise redemptions. As a midwesterner already limited in earnings (and Amtrak travel opportunities) raising the redeption price on some of the more lucrative awards barely impacted me. As to bonus points we just had 2 months of universial double/triple points and after a 3 week break are back into a targeted double point promotion.

The biggest issue I have with my AGR account is hoarding the points and convincing myself to spend them on something other than a long haul western train.


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## AlanB (Jun 5, 2012)

They just finished up a double/triple point promotion on May 12th of last month.

As for the awards, it really depends on just what redemption you are looking at. Some have gone up, but others like roomettes have stayed the same since the programs inception, still at 15,000 for one zone, 20K for 2, 30K for 3 zone.


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## the_traveler (Jun 5, 2012)

Correction Alan, a 3 zone roomette is 35K!


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## amamba (Jun 5, 2012)

Guest said:


> I can not find any double point promotions? I remember they used to offer these all the time and even had some quadruple point promotions. Also the points needed to redeem tickets has gone up 50%. Anyone know the logic behind this drastic watering down of the loyalty program?


What math are you using? 1 zone bedroom used to be 20,000; now its 25,000 points. 5000 pts is a 25% increase.

While I am certainly not thrilled about the increase, these things happen over time, especially in a program like AGR where points are tied to dollars spent. As the prices go up on the train routes, we are given more points for the same transactions. So its actually that the points are getting inflated, rather than the loyalty program is being watered down, IMO.


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## gatelouse (Jun 5, 2012)

Sounds like the OP is referring to 1000 point special routes awards, which are now 1500. As for the double points promos, they'll be back once the summer crowds thin out a bit.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 6, 2012)

Exiled in Express said:


> It now takes less paid trips to reach the award travel level, this is a problem the airlines/mileage based programs don't have as Chicago to New York remains a fixed distance.


I don't follow your reasoning. If a Chicago-New York trip cost, say $300 and earned 600 AGR points and now costs $400 and earns 800 AGR points, it still costs the same amount to earn each point. If anything, rising costs mean that each point earned for travel costs more, as the 100-point minimum for short trips becomes less relevant. After all, even with mileage-based airline programs, the efficiency of mileage runs is determined by how many cents each earned mile costs, not how many miles were traveled for each mile earned.

I'm sure that we're seeing fewer double and triple points promotions because Amtrak's passenger load has risen. In general, I'm seeing fewer and less generous promotions from most airlines and hotel chains.


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## amamba (Jun 6, 2012)

Ispolkom said:


> Exiled in Express said:
> 
> 
> > It now takes less paid trips to reach the award travel level, this is a problem the airlines/mileage based programs don't have as Chicago to New York remains a fixed distance.
> ...


I get what Exiled is saying. For the airlines, where your miles are earned based on distance traveled, one will always earn the same amount of miles from NY to Chicago.

However, on amtrak, if the price of travel from NYP to Chicago rises to $400 from $300, one has now earned 800 points instead of 600 points. Thus the points are becoming inflated in that one has more points for the same distance trip than they did before. Thus there are more points available in the system, so amtrak decides to raise the redemption values to allow for that.


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## AlanB (Jun 6, 2012)

Ispolkom said:


> I'm sure that we're seeing fewer double and triple points promotions because Amtrak's passenger load has risen. In general, I'm seeing fewer and less generous promotions from most airlines and hotel chains.


AGR has always done two double/triple point promos and then two other promos, typically buy 2 RT's and get 1.

They had in the past done some targeted double point promos for those who hadn't taken a ride in a while, but otherwise the amount of promos has remained constant for many years now.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 6, 2012)

AlanB said:


> They had in the past done some targeted double point promos for those who hadn't taken a ride in a while, but otherwise the amount of promos has remained constant for many years now.


Really? I would have sworn that there was a year (2009, 2010?) where there was a double or triple points promotion for something like nine months of the year.


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## Michigan Mom (Jun 6, 2012)

The "purchase points" 30% bonus is a good deal... one going on right now.

It's more cost effective to do this as opposed to the "points run" although that has the added benefit of the rail excursion.


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## AlanB (Jun 6, 2012)

Ispolkom said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > They had in the past done some targeted double point promos for those who hadn't taken a ride in a while, but otherwise the amount of promos has remained constant for many years now.
> ...


Nope!

Not unless you got lucky and got one of those "I didn't ride in a while" offers that bridged the gap between the normal spring & fall double point promos.


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## Acela150 (Jun 7, 2012)

Michigan Mom said:


> The "purchase points" 30% bonus is a good deal... one going on right now.
> 
> It's more cost effective to do this as opposed to the "points run" although that has the added benefit of the rail excursion.


Last year they offered this promotion and a lot of AU members jumped on it. In the fall they raised it to 50% and they were kicking themselves. So hold off.


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## amamba (Jun 7, 2012)

Acela150 said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > The "purchase points" 30% bonus is a good deal... one going on right now.
> ...


Last year was the only time they did a 50% bonus. I don't know that we can assume that they will do one again.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 7, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


You're right. I was remembering the promotions in fall 2009 and spring 2010, while forgetting the gaps between them.


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## dlagrua (Jun 10, 2012)

Amtrak ridership is only up about 3.7% compared to the last fiscal year. That should not have a large impact on AGR policy. Amtrak just adjusted the redemption point requirements in April of this year. Anymore upward adjustment in points required for travel will make the AGR program worthless.


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