# AEM7 Retirement



## ronkstevens

Are there any plans to "celebrate" the retirement of the AEM7's after their long service history? I think it would be nice to put one in Phase III paint and run it for awhile, and give it a nice farewell, similar to what was done with the GG1's when they were retired from service. (and more recently, the old SEPTA Silverliner II and III EMUs)


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## NE933

I know many younger and modern fans will disagree, retiring the AEM7's is something of sadness; what we celebrate is the arrival of the ACS-64.

For a good deal of their lives, they were great machines, and still are, they are malfunctioning because of their age, hard wear and tear, and no money to fix what's broken anymore. They handled 125mph operations for over three decades, powerful and reliable. Many were doubtful after their debut, of whether they would be good enough to replace the GG1's and keep the NE Corridor fluid. Well, they did that and much more. Along with their diesel brothers, the F40's, they were the railroad's molecule of life, along with the Amfleets and Superliners. Like I said, many detractors write on here and other sites of how much they are breaking down, and it's true -- they are, but it's because they have arrived at the end, and there's really no more to be expected of them. It is time for these engines to pass on to locomotive paradise, which hopefully is the same Paradise we can get to, if we're 'good'.

Mark my words: the Corridor, it will look awfully strange after the last few units are gone, for as a person in my upper 40's, AEM7's made the route tick. And forget, of course, today's bland horror that is their Phase 5 paint scheme, in the beginning, their stripes SHINED. I mean, they rocked, and they wore the face of hope of American passenger railroading. AEM7's bridged the chasm from the ruins of post automobile rail, to the future of what was to come and what can be. These 7,000 horsepower locomotives embarassed arogant air shuttles by enabling trains to compete with them, and it gave train travelers a trump card in which to argue. And while their domain was in the Northeast only, it gave bulk to the visions of people like W. Graham Jr., whose infant designs of electrified routes in California and the mid-West, had they actually been given money, would have had trains powered by either an AEM7 or derivative successor.

The engines were moving, even while not in motion. To see a double headed 13 car Amfleet consist waiting for take off was like waiting in the Roman Coluseum for the lion to pounce on its doomed target, I mean, the way they sounded -- that hum and whine during acceleration, the air hiss while stopped, was a life chapter of awe. If possible, try to overlook what they've become, and see -- remember -- the dream of what they were not long ago even.

ACS64 has big shoes to fill, as do we. We can gripe about various things about Amtrak, but that requires the bold question: what do we want, and what can we expect, of the American passenger train? And what kind of work are we willing to expend to get it?

- Robert (NE933)


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## Ryan

I'm definitely going to miss them. Need to spend a lot more time trackside, I've got a goal of getting pictures of all of them before they go away.

I love looking at pictures of old rolling stock and am thankful for the people that took the time to preserve them. Hopefully I'll feel the same about my pictures 20 years down the line.


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## ronkstevens

Very well put, Robert


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## MattW

I only hope someone with more skills than I puts together an AEM-7 tribute video with nice, sadish music ("You Raise Me Up" would be a good choice? That is what they did, raised up the NEC)

[EDIT]

I spoke too soon:



I still hope to find one with slow, sad kind of music though.


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## amtkstn

Great video. For us born in the late seventies. We grew with these fine locomotives. They have truly earned their retirement.


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## bgiaquin

A few AEM-7s need to be preserved! They are worthy of it in so many ways. They were ( and for now still are ) the workhorses of Amtrak's most important rail line for 34 years, and, considering the fact that they have been nearly run into the ground for the past few years, it is amazing they are still going strong. I say we give a good toast to the toasters.


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## gmushial

What type of retirement are the AEM-7s likely to see: sell them off for use on some other smaller lines? Sold as scrap for the metal and parts? Used as backups for the -64, just in case? Or, make no decision and simply park them in a rust-yard? Though have to agree: they for many are the signature of the NEC.


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## NE933

Chatter on other forums suggests appropriately, the Railroad Museum of PA, in Strasburg and near Lancaster, will get one or two. Which ones I will surrender that debate to the rest of the other members, because my namesake #933 is burned up and scrapped, and #903 died long ago in the Chase, MD disaster.

Well, I take it back: I vote for either 904, 902, or 901. 904 is like a cat with many lives: in 1988, as part of the northbound Night Owl, crashed into work train equipment in the middle of the night, overturned, and slid perfectly in the middle, through a bridge. A few inches off and the thing would've been shredded.


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## afigg

gmushial said:


> What type of retirement are the AEM-7s likely to see: sell them off for use on some other smaller lines? Sold as scrap for the metal and parts? Used as backups for the -64, just in case? Or, make no decision and simply park them in a rust-yard? Though have to agree: they for many are the signature of the NEC.


There is probably no viable resale market for the AEM-7s. Too many miles and years on them. Also configured for the NEC, other than a NE commuter agency who could use them? With their additional state funding, SEPTA has announced that it is planning to replace their AEM-7s with a RFP going out this year. Since there is a rather short list of vendors who have an active production line building electric locomotives to US requirements and suitable for NEC operations, pretty easy to guess who is likely to win that contract (with deliveries starting in early 2016).

Now Amtrak could lend or lease some AEM-7s to SEPTA or MARC on a short term basis if the agencies needed units to tie them over until new locomotives come in. But the AEM-7s are likely be gone entirely from the Northeast in 3-4 years.

One or two AEM-7s will probably go to museums, the rest to storage until the ACS-64s are all in and working. I could see Amtrak keeping a set of the AEM-7ACs around for a few years as insurance, but the rest would be candidates to get scrapped. I wonder how many pounds of copper are in an AEM-7DC? The copper would have good scrap value.


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## NE933

If any of you know any of the rail magazine publishers and editors (ex. RailPace, Trains, etc.), ask them to please not run any photos of scrapping. A short blurb will do. Thanks.


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## benjibear

I think at least one will get preserved in a museum. Probably the Railroad Museum of PA would be one of the primary candidates. I think most will be scrapped within the next 10 years.

Any word on how they will phase in the new locomotives? Will we see them on the Keystone or will we see the older locomotives for awhile yet.


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## Acela150

Even at 22 years old my first memorable train ride was on train #172 behind toasters 923 and 935. Before the shore line was electrified. This was in 1997 and I was 6!  I was thrilled! Those two units will have special meaning to me. Even though 923 seems to stalk me now a days.. Ever since that day I've never ridden behind 935.. A few years ago I rode behind 923 and 928 on my first double header since that day in April 1997. They will always be something special to me. I'm rather sad to see them go. But IMO it's not the same as when AE came on line. With ACS-64's I'm still sitting in an Amfleet. With AE that changed. Riding new equipment was a treat and still is.


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## edjbox

Anyone know which units will be retired first and when will they start going offline?


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## gmushial

ON

Wonder if the neighbors would object (too strongly) if one parked one in their front yard... after all: what's move unique/distinctive, having a mundane green lawn, or a waxed and polished AEM7...

hey... maybe Amtrak won't be able to find bidders for all of them... imagine the fun one could have on a $1 bid... ;-)

 OFF


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## Blackwolf

gmushial said:


> ON
> 
> Wonder if the neighbors would object (too strongly) if one parked one in their front yard... after all: what's move unique/distinctive, having a mundane green lawn, or a waxed and *FOAMED* AEM7...
> 
> hey... maybe Amtrak won't be able to find bidders for all of them... imagine the fun one could have on a $1 bid... ;-)
> 
> OFF


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## gmushial

ON

Hey... it's just a toaster - I'm waiting for the electrical hookup for it in the kitchen.... ... it should be only be another day or two...

 OFF


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## bgiaquin

edjbox said:


> Anyone know which units will be retired first and when will they start going offline?


The unrebuilt AEM-7DCs will go first. Those are #s 902, 906, 907, 909, 910, 912, 931, 932, 937, 945, 947, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953. They will be gone by this fall. Next is rebuilt AEM-7ACS. Those are 901, 904, 905, 908, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 934, 935, 936, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 946, 948. Those will be gone by spring 2015. The other AEM-7s (900, 903, 911, 913, 922, 930, 933) are already gone. 900 and 903 were destroyed in the famous Chase, MD wreck in 1987. 911, 913, 922, 930 , and 933 were retired due to fire damage.


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## Acela150

RyanS said:


> I'm definitely going to miss them. Need to spend a lot more time trackside, I've got a goal of getting pictures of all of them before they go away.


I got one up on you Ryan.. I have photos of every AEM-7 except 900 and 903.. I managed to get a photo of 913 years ago.. 911 and 933 I got a few months before they were toast.. 922 I some how got.. I also have photos of every Acela PC. Although for years 2021 and 2024 eluded me. One Thanksgiving Sunday we had just packed up and I was starting to walk away from trackside and there she went.. 6 months later I got her at BWI. Then again 2 months later.


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## Ryan

Nice!


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## gmushial

Acela150 said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm definitely going to miss them. Need to spend a lot more time trackside, I've got a goal of getting pictures of all of them before they go away.
> 
> 
> 
> I got one up on you Ryan.. I have photos of every AEM-7 except 900 and 903.. I managed to get a photo of 913 years ago.. 911 and 933 I got a few months before they were toast.. 922 I some how got.. I also have photos of every Acela PC. Although for years 2021 and 2024 eluded me. One Thanksgiving Sunday we had just packed up and I was starting to walk away from trackside and there she went.. 6 months later I got her at BWI. Then again 2 months later.
Click to expand...

Impressive


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## cirdan

NE933 said:


> Chatter on other forums suggests appropriately, the Railroad Museum of PA, in Strasburg and near Lancaster, will get one or two.


Yes, they will probably want one, although I daresay they are running out of space and all of the equipment parked outside and rusting in the rain is not a pretty sight.

I hope other locations will also want to preserve one, as happened with the GG1s.

But I guess the chances of one getting preserved as a working machine are slim? As far as I am aware there isn't a precedent for this, other than some of the freight railroads having F-Units to pull director's trains. But I have difficulty seeing that in an NEC context.


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## Nathanael

cirdan said:


> But I guess the chances of one getting preserved as a working machine are slim?


Electric railroading preservation is a problematic area, because there are so few museums with live electrification. There are a number of trolley museums with overhead DC, and some which have enough juice to power interurbans.

But the only third rail example I know of (worldwide) is the NYC Transit Museum, which is actually part of the MTA.

And I know of *no* examples of live AC overhead electrification at *any* museum.

Having an *operating* AEM-7 would be a bit like having an operating GG-1 -- you need a track to run it on! If some museum is connected to one of the AC electrified railway lines, it might be viable to set the preserved electrics on an electrified siding with the possibility of excursion trips. But I'm not aware of such a museum. Perhaps New Jersey or Pennsylvania, with their multitude of electrified branches, would be the best places to set one up.

It might be possible for one of the museums with a really large budget to set up its own museum track electrified with overhead AC, but that would probably be even harder.


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## Nathanael

OK, I did a little research. Perhaps the best possibility would be for a "museum" AEM-7 to be stationed in Harrisburg, next to the non-working GG1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_4859 Apparently there are enough spare tracks there to just leave a museum exhibit sitting there... and the tracks are electrified. Some museum would have to sponsor this, of course.

(This also seems like the best place for a restoration project to get a working GG-1.)


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## railiner

The Strasburg Rail Road, which connects the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania with the Keystone Line at Leaman Place, would be an ideal place for this...There was at least one occasion when they 'rescued' GG-1's, needing wheel repacement at their drop-table equipped shop....


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## PerRock

IRM (outside Chicago) has an overhead electric system, however I don't know the capabilities of it. They normally run interurban and streetcars on it, but they do own some regular electric engines (including a GG1). I don't know if they can actually run the regular electric engines on their system. It looks fairly light, but then they don't have much distance to travel, so you aren't going to see speeds requiring a high-tension system.

peter


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## ronkstevens

Nathanael said:


> OK, I did a little research. Perhaps the best possibility would be for a "museum" AEM-7 to be stationed in Harrisburg, next to the non-working GG1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_4859 Apparently there are enough spare tracks there to just leave a museum exhibit sitting there... and the tracks are electrified. Some museum would have to sponsor this, of course.
> 
> (This also seems like the best place for a restoration project to get a working GG-1.)


The last I had heard Amtrak would like to get rid of the GG-1 at Harrisburg. Unfortunately if it would leave there it would most likely head to Strasburg. But they already have 2 GG-1's there, with one needing restoring.

Preserved locomotives that are not used in any kind of dedicated excursion service really have no need or use as a "working" model, simply due to the costs involved. It is similar to having a "working" Concorde, but no where to fly it.


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## benjibear

I can't see one ever being operated at a museum. I don't think there are any museums that have that capability.

While I would love to see one remain operation, I think the most we will see is a static display. Some of the copper and metal may be salvaged out as well and it will never operate again. I think the Railroad Museum of PA as being a perfect location for one.

I would think Amtrak, would try to preserve at least one example. However, with the political climate, Amtrak may want to get every penny the can from them.


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## jis

There has been occasional talk about converting some of them into Cabbages.


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## bgiaquin

PerRock said:


> IRM (outside Chicago) has an overhead electric system, however I don't know the capabilities of it. They normally run interurban and streetcars on it, but they do own some regular electric engines (including a GG1). I don't know if they can actually run the regular electric engines on their system. It looks fairly light, but then they don't have much distance to travel, so you aren't going to see speeds requiring a high-tension system.
> 
> peter


I think it is 750 volts DC. They run some electric engines sometimes but there is no way that they could run an AEM7.


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## Nathanael

PerRock said:


> IRM (outside Chicago) has an overhead electric system, however I don't know the capabilities of it. They normally run interurban and streetcars on it, but they do own some regular electric engines (including a GG1). I don't know if they can actually run the regular electric engines on their system. It looks fairly light, but then they don't have much distance to travel, so you aren't going to see speeds requiring a high-tension system.
> 
> peter


IRM has DC overhead, suitable for running both trolleys, interurbans, and (for light loads) the locomotives of nearly all the former electrified railroads in the Midwest. Remember that Metra Electric and the South Shore Line *still* use DC overhead. So does the Iowa Traction Railway. (I don't think IRM has any of the pre-1926 South Shore Line AC equipment -- I'm not sure any of it survives, actually.)

This makes sense for an Illinois railroad museum. Most locomotives can handle some changes in voltage with relatively little work, so the ones designed for higher DC voltages (3000V or 1500V) can often be adapted to run on lower voltages (750V or 600V) for low-speed museum operations.

Museums are generally afraid to run third rail DC because of worries about people stepping on it. (There is one group in England which is really trying to figure out how to set up a third rail museum line, but it seems particularly difficult!) However, DC third rail vehicles can often be jerry-rigged to run off of DC overhead at low speeds without too much trouble or damage to historic fabric. Or, for short distances, they can be run off "battery cars".

By contrast, the difference between AC power and DC power systems is quite substantial. No museum has AC overhead, and converting an AC locomotive to run on DC would basically strip large portions of the innards (at least the main rectifiers, and quite possibly more depending on the design), which is very undesirable from a historic preservation point of view. Furthermore many of the parts of an AC locomotive may rely on the very high power supply from 12500V or 25000V, which is a big difference from the 750V usually supplied for streetcars or interurbans.

Probably eventually for the benefit of railroad preservation, *some* museum *somewhere* should set up an AC overhead line, just as *some* museum should have third rail. There's probably only room in the world for one of each given the difficulty involved in either. I suppose Germany, where practically every line is electrified with AC overhead, might be the best bet for a museum with overhead AC electrification. (Heck, maybe they have such a museum, and I just haven't found it due to my poor grasp of technical German.)


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## PerRock

So I'm not to familiar with RR electric systems. I know there are AEM-7DCs and AEM-7ACs; but I don't really know the difference between them (I know the ACs are refurbished DCs) Is there something that could be done with the DCs?

peter


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## jis

PerRock said:


> So I'm not to familiar with RR electric systems. I know there are AEM-7DCs and AEM-7ACs; but I don't really know the difference between them (I know the ACs are refurbished DCs) Is there something that could be done with the DCs?
> 
> peter


Just to confuse you a bit more, both the AEM-7DC and AEM-7AC are AC locomotives in the sense that term is used by Nathaniel above. He is referring to the type of power that is fed to the engine from the catenary, and not what kind of motors it has.
So no. nothing can be done with the DCs relative to the type of catenary power it uses, which is AC, without essentially gutting the innards and rebuilding it as a DC engine.


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## Nathanael

Yeah, it's a bit confusing, isn't it?

The AEM-7DC picks up fixed-frequency AC power from overhead, rectifies it into DC, and then feeds it to DC-powered motors. (There's a whole bunch of different types of motors. Traditional "brush and commutator" DC motors have been used heavily since the 1890s. Brush motors actually have little moving brushes which wear out and create dust. There are also a number of types of "brushless DC" motors. I'm not sure which sort the original AEM-7DC uses, but I think they're the old-school brush motors.)

The AEM-7AC picks up fixed-frequency AC power from overhead, rectifies it into DC, and then uses the DC to generate *variable-frequency* AC, which is what's used for "AC induction motors", which are the favorite modern motor because they have one moving part and no wear parts.

(This is basically the same as how my electric automobile works -- it takes fixed-frequency AC from the wall, and converts it to DC to feed the batteries. Then it takes DC from the batteries and converts it to *variable-frequency* AC for the induction motor. All the tech was already in use in trains when the Tesla Model S was designed -- not new stuff.)

The "AC induction motor" is actually a very old design, invented by Nikola Tesla, but it used to be extremely difficult to generate variable-frequency AC current, which is why they weren't used much until the last few decades. (In this type of motor, the frequency variation is what determines the speed of the motor, so until variable-frequency AC could be reliably generated, the induction motor could only be used for single-speed applications.) Recent developments in electronics made it possible to generate the necessary variable-frequency AC current relatively easily. (The device most commonly used to do so in locomotives is called an "IGBT".)

I find all this stuff terribly interesting.

Anyway, to explain the point I was making. AC current can actually be distributed through a single wire, known as the "hot" wire in home electrical work. (The second wire, the "neutral", is there for safety and to reduce resistance. *You don't actually need it*, and at some location it's tied to the ground wire.) DC current, by contrast, requires a complete loop where the current comes in one wire and goes out the other.

An AC-powered locomotive will therefore have a big pantograph to pick up the AC from the wire, and a relatively weak system "grounding" it to the rails. Since it picks up high-voltage / low-current electricity it can be wired with relatively thin wires. Then it needs a large "rectifier" to convert the AC to DC to power the motors. (There may also be transformers involved).

A DC locomotive picks up the DC from a wire and returns it through the rails, and it's returning a *lot* of power through the rails, so it needs a much heftier return system. Since it's low-voltage, high-current, it has to be wired with very thick wires. Then it needs DC-to-DC transformers (not rectifiers) to transform the DC to lower-voltage DC to operate the equipment.

So the wiring and equipment which come between the electrical pickup and the motor controller are extremely different for an "AC overhead" locomotive and a "DC overhead" locomotive. You could actually keep the same motors, but you'd have to rewire nearly everything else in the electrical system to do a conversion. This might make sense commercially (for instance, when France converts overhead-DC railway lines to overhead-AC railway lines), but makes no sense if you're doing preservation!


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## jis

Nathanael said:


> An AC-powered locomotive will therefore have a big pantograph to pick up the AC from the wire, and a relatively weak system "grounding" it to the rails. Since it picks up high-voltage / low-current electricity it can be wired with relatively thin wires. Then it needs a large "rectifier" to convert the AC to DC to power the motors. (There may also be transformers involved).


Shhhh! Don't tell that to the maintenance geniuses at NJT's MMC. They had already decided once that the return straps to the axles were not that important afterall and forgot to maintain them until they wore out and disintegrated in an EMU. Then return power started flowing through the bearings destroying one eventually causing a derailment near Secaucus Junction when a wheel with its axle literally fell off the train!
After that they spent weeks replacing all the worn out straps on all the Arrows. Allegedly FRA made them do it before they'd allow any Arrows back in service. Yet another curious crisis brought upon itself by its own incompetence.


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## Nathanael

jis said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> An AC-powered locomotive will therefore have a big pantograph to pick up the AC from the wire, and a relatively weak system "grounding" it to the rails. Since it picks up high-voltage / low-current electricity it can be wired with relatively thin wires. Then it needs a large "rectifier" to convert the AC to DC to power the motors. (There may also be transformers involved).
> 
> 
> 
> Shhhh! Don't tell that to the maintenance geniuses at NJT's MMC. They had already decided once that the return straps to the axles were not that important afterall and forgot to maintain them until they wore out and disintegrated in an EMU. Then return power started flowing through the bearings destroying one eventually causing a derailment near Secaucus Junction when a wheel with its axle literally fell off the train!
Click to expand...

Eek! When I said "relatively weak", I meant that they don't have to be the sort of giant, beefy cables you need to use for high-current DC. You still want to ground the system properly -- stray currents anywhere can wreak havoc!


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## Nathanael

The key difference between AC and DC is this.

In DC, the electrons are actually flowing around in a loop. So you have to make a complete circuit. (Or... if you don't... the electrons spray out one end. This is actually used for Cathode Ray Tubes and a few other applications, but it's usually a bad idea.)

With AC, you're not really moving the electrons much. At the power plant, you push them down the wire... then you pull them back... then you push them... then you pull them again. Each electron remains pretty much right where it is and bounces back and forth a little. The "frequency" of the AC is how fast you bounce them back and forth.

As you can see, there's no actual need for a "return" route with AC. But whatever you put at the far end of the wire has to have something able to deal with all of this back-and-forth pressure. It will wear out and damage delicate parts (like bearings) if they're in the way. It's usually easiest and safest to attach it to the Earth (grounding), but there are other alternatives (they're something like capacitors conceptually) which are used in specialized applications.


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## Thirdrail7

And then there were two:












With the retirement of the 926, the last two Amtrak DC AEM-7s that remain in service are scheduled for a few non revenue test trains and then they will be retired together since they are "pair only" units.

The end.


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## adamj023

Wait, they phased out all the AES including the rebuilds already? Wow, the cars really came in at a fast clip if this is accurate. I thought theh weren't going to be phased out till later on as 3 a month were arriving of the Sprinters.

Can anyone else confirm this? Great news for Amtrak and customers since it means cheaper costs, improved efficiency and more reliable service and perhaps faster speeds somewhat and better safety standards.


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## adamj023

Oh wait you said DC and not rebuilds. I misread the post but is still excellent news as the rebuilds are a lot better than the non rebuilds which were causing fires, and were unreliable and had antiquated electronics. The rebuilds are a lot more capable and will be able to handle the service till the rest of the Sprinters finally come in.


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## Al Smith

Man, retiring these AEM-7 locomotives makes me feel old! I was working at the Transportation Test Center (what it was called at the time of testing) near Pueblo when Amtrak sent one locomotive to see how they would work at 110mph. One night, I was in the cab as we went around the RTT (Railroad Test Track) at speed. At that time, it was a beautiful, state-of-the art motor! I vividly remember when it was time to disembark. After going 110 mph for several laps, we slowed to 65mph, and it seemed like a crawl. When I thought it was time to open the cab door and swing out on the ladder to "land", I checked the speedo. I'm glad I did, because we were still going 40mph, so I delayed! I had misjudged the speed that much.

Riding that night in an AEM-7 at that speed was one of those lucky memories that I truly cherish!


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## NE933

Yes, Al Smith, many who call them names for catching fire don't realize that they are old; at one time, they were among a class of locomotives that helped save Amtrak, along with its diesel cousin, the F40.

AEM7 handled Amtrak's fastest trains for almost three decades, had amazing capabilities with its acceleration and longevity. Heads turned when these machines started rolling out in 1981 or so. And they looked handsome! I absolutely hate their last design scheme, and if the Strasburg Rail Museum does get one, pray that they'll restore the original phase-3 painting. A lot of tears will spill when the last one hands the torch over completely to the ACS.


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## adamj023

Well the good thing is that the old cars had electronics failing and got phased out just in time and maintaining them would be cost inefficient. The rebuilds are perfect to tide over till all the new cars are in.

Agree on the cars back then but the newer cars are far superior.


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## neroden

HHP-8s gone, AEM-7 DCs gone. How many AEM-7ACs are left?


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## VentureForth

I'll celebrate with some toast for breakfast this morning.


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## jis

VentureForth said:


> I'll celebrate with some toast for breakfast this morning.


Very appropriate for celebrating the Toasters!


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## Ziv

These mentions of the GG1's early on kind of surprised me. Were they around in general use after around 1970? Did they change the look of them later in their careers because they look WAY old school.

I thought the old Great Northern F7's looked dated with the engineer, brakeman and the fireman climbing what looked to be a 20 foot tall wall of locomotive to get into it. (I was a good deal shorter back in the late 1960's so it might not have QUITE been 20 feet to the entryway...)

But the GG1's look and are much older than the F7's. Hard to believe they may have still been around and in relatively common use in the late 70's.


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## chakk

Celebrate with a buffet dinner, serving swedish meatballs.


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## jis

Ziv said:


> These mentions of the GG1's early on kind of surprised me. Were they around in general use after around 1970? Did they change the look of them later in their careers because they look WAY old school.
> 
> I thought the old Great Northern F7's looked dated with the engineer, brakeman and the fireman climbing what looked to be a 20 foot tall wall of locomotive to get into it. (I was a good deal shorter back in the late 1960's so it might not have QUITE been 20 feet to the entryway...)
> 
> But the GG1's look and are much older than the F7's. Hard to believe they may have still been around and in relatively common use in the late 70's.


GG-1s were quite common in both Amtrak and NJTransit (various random liveries) through the 1970s. They ran early Amfleet equipped trains with special USArmy Kitchen Cars converted to HEP generators to supply power to the train.


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## Devil's Advocate

The GG1's were a sad loss to me. Beautiful and powerful and sexy. By comparison the AEM7's look like a powered boxcar from Soviet Russia. All function and no form. Or at least that's how they looked to me. I can't imagine missing it in the future.


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## Acela150

neroden said:


> HHP-8s gone, AEM-7 DCs gone. How many AEM-7ACs are left?


All except 901.


----------



## neroden

The GG1s lasted a long, long time. They actually only got retired when the technology became obsolete and they started to be considered an environmental hazard (they were full of PCBs, among other things). That's an impressive run.

To be fair, the AEM-7-DCs have also lasted well beyond the point when they were obsolete, and the AEM-7-ACs are also obsolete technology (have been ever since regenerative braking became standard), and the P42s are also obsolete (don't meet current emissions standards, or even the emissions standards three rounds back, and again, no regenerative braking).

But this is an interesting contrast to locomotives being retired because the individual locomotive has worn out. The Heritage dining cars and baggage cars are being retired due to structural and component failures, not due to design obsolescence.


----------



## cirdan

bgiaquin said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> 
> IRM (outside Chicago) has an overhead electric system, however I don't know the capabilities of it. They normally run interurban and streetcars on it, but they do own some regular electric engines (including a GG1). I don't know if they can actually run the regular electric engines on their system. It looks fairly light, but then they don't have much distance to travel, so you aren't going to see speeds requiring a high-tension system.
> 
> peter
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is 750 volts DC. They run some electric engines sometimes but there is no way that they could run an AEM7.
Click to expand...

The UK has several preserved and operational AC locomotives, but no museum with working AC electrification. These locomotives are used on excursion trains on the main line. Interestingly some have even been hired for regular train work to cover temporary locomotive shortages.

I don't think we're likely to see any museum with working AC any time soon. AC electrification is far more complex than DC and due to the higher voltages, the safety standards are far more exacting


----------



## NW cannonball

chakk said:


> Celebrate with a buffet dinner, serving swedish meatballs.


----------



## Acela150

931 and 945 are now retired. ALL AEM-7DC units are OOS.


----------



## jis

neroden said:


> The GG1s lasted a long, long time. They actually only got retired when the technology became obsolete and they started to be considered an environmental hazard (they were full of PCBs, among other things). That's an impressive run.


Not to mention when their frames started cracking making them not worth the cost to repair anymore too.


----------



## pvd

For regenerative braking (versus dynamic) the power has to be returned to the grid, used to supplement HEP generation, or stored (think batteries in a hybrid car). The emissions standards have certainly tightened since the P42's came on the property, but regen braking in a road diesel (as opposed to an electric) would probably not make sense.


----------



## Caesar La Rock

jis said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> 
> The GG1s lasted a long, long time. They actually only got retired when the technology became obsolete and they started to be considered an environmental hazard (they were full of PCBs, among other things). That's an impressive run.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention when their frames started cracking making them not worth the cost to repair anymore too.
Click to expand...

It's unfortunate one will never run under their own power again. The preserved A/C MP54s though (if any are still in decent condition) might have a chance, since they didn't use PCBs.


----------



## neroden

pvd said:


> For regenerative braking (versus dynamic) the power has to be returned to the grid, used to supplement HEP generation, or stored (think batteries in a hybrid car). The emissions standards have certainly tightened since the P42's came on the property, but regen braking in a road diesel (as opposed to an electric) would probably not make sense.


It's being used for HEP in new designs; also the batteries tend to be significantly beefed up relative to older designs.


----------



## cirdan

pvd said:


> For regenerative braking (versus dynamic) the power has to be returned to the grid, used to supplement HEP generation, or stored (think batteries in a hybrid car). The emissions standards have certainly tightened since the P42's came on the property, but regen braking in a road diesel (as opposed to an electric) would probably not make sense.


It's not only about energy saved.

Regenerate braking means less energy converted to heat and this can be an issue in temperature control on the locomotive as well as wear on brake blocks.


----------



## pvd

I probably should have spelled that out more carefully. The heat dissipation in dynamic braking is a significant issue, and its impact cannot be ignored. Any energy released by the combustion of fuel that is used to run the train (or its services) instead of becoming waste heat is a plus. The new Siemens Chargers will do some regen during dynamic braking which will augment HEP. What I really didn't state (and should have) is that the greatest advantages of regen are seen when large quantities of power can be returned to the grid (like ACS-64), or in a d/e where acceleration and deceleration occur most frequently which would probably be in commuter or short haul rather than long haul.


----------



## Ziv

pvd, your comment reminded me of the time Seattle bought several hundred hybrid buses and then used most of them on suburban routes with primarily highway miles. Oddly enough, the hybrid buses didn't get much better mpg than the conventional diesel buses. Regen doesn't do you much good if you only start and stop a couple times a trip.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/transportation/article/Hybrid-buses-fuel-economy-promises-don-t-1161842.php



pvd said:


> I probably should have spelled that out more carefully. The heat dissipation in dynamic braking is a significant issue, and its impact cannot be ignored. Any energy released by the combustion of fuel that is used to run the train (or its services) instead of becoming waste heat is a plus. The new Siemens Chargers will do some regen during dynamic braking which will augment HEP. What I really didn't state (and should have) is that the greatest advantages of regen are seen when large quantities of power can be returned to the grid (like ACS-64), or in a d/e where acceleration and deceleration occur most frequently which would probably be in commuter or short haul rather than long haul.


----------



## pvd

In NYC we have exactly that issue. Orion Hybrids with BAE drives (we have lots of them) turn in decent numbers in congested areas with lots of starts and stops, but in areas with freer flowing traffic and less stops, they do much worse. To the point that they have considered re powering a large batch to clean diesel at midlife overhaul. (considered, not moved ahead on) Of course the MDBF numbers aren't great on them regardless. Supposedly, the Allison hybrids are more suitable for better moving traffic, but I don't know the numbers.


----------



## Guest

Acela150 said:


> 931 and 945 are now retired. ALL AEM-7DC units are OOS.


Celebration  Just need another Sprinter or two to weed out a car or two of the weakest rebuilds so another month 3 Sprinters should arrive. Good for Amtrak and customers alike. The AEM-7DC lasted too long considering much better technologies have emerged and the AEM rebuilds are older but are very capable locomotives. Makes the northeastern corridor vastly better from the locomotive side.


----------



## neroden

The killer app for battery-electric haulage is extreme start-stop situations; city buses which stop every block and are in heavy traffic, switching locomotives, etc. Zero idling + regenerative braking, works out a lot better than fuel burning.

For long steady hauls, fuel burning is still fairly efficient.


----------



## Guest

Guest said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 931 and 945 are now retired. ALL AEM-7DC units are OOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Celebration  Just need another Sprinter or two to weed out a car or two of the weakest rebuilds so another month 3 Sprinters should arrive. Good for Amtrak and customers alike. The AEM-7DC lasted too long considering much better technologies have emerged and the AEM rebuilds are older but are very capable locomotives. Makes the northeastern corridor vastly better from the locomotive side.
Click to expand...

The Sprinters break down more than would be expected from new motors. That is not good for Amtrak or customers.


----------



## Guest

I doubt that the Sprinters are performing badly. If they need some tweaks, Siemens should be able to handle them quickly across the fleet. Plus they will have AEM7 rebuilds as fallbacks in case repairs are needed. The Non rebuilds really had to go.


----------



## H. Bitler

915 & 926 are AEM-DCs Only 29 locos were remanufactured to AC

rumor is that 915 will go to the Strasburg Rail Road.


----------



## MikefromCrete

H. Bitler said:


> 915 & 926 are AEM-DCs Only 29 locos were remanufactured to AC
> 
> rumor is that 915 will go to the Strasburg Rail Road.


what would Strasburg want with a modern electric motor? They aim at a turn of the century (19th into 20th) atmosphere with steam locomotives. I believe a Toaster will go to the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum, which is across the street from the Strasburg.


----------



## Thirdrail7

The 901 is still sitting in Wilmington even though it lacks pantographs. Perhaps that is the lucky unit.


----------



## Dutchrailnut

not Strasbourg railroad but Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasbourg, two very different things.


----------



## benjibear

Dutchrailnut said:


> not Strasbourg railroad but Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasbourg, two very different things.



People get this confused all the time. There are two separate entities in Strasburg. Strasburg Railroad is a passenger excursion tourist railroad and they do haul freight (often with a steam locomotive). Across the street is the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania which is a museum operated by the Pennsylvania Historic and Museum Commission. Many people call the museum Pennsylvania Railroad museum. While the collection started out as the collection of historic locomotives from the Pennsylvania Railroad that they preserved, the museums goal is to preserve and interpret anything railroad in Pennsylvania.


----------



## Acela150

Dutchrailnut said:


> not Strasbourg railroad but Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasbourg, two very different things.


What's this Strasbourg place?? Never heard of it. Strasburg, I've heard of.


----------



## Seaboard92

An interesting train will be when the AEM7 goes to RRPA. It will get pulled on the Strasburg Railroad. Maybe even a steam engine will take it. That would be a good photo. Steam engine with an electric trailing


----------



## Acela150

Eassssssssy now. Let's not draw up to much speculation. We don't want to spread bad info.


----------



## afigg

It is being reported on other rr forum sites that AEM-7 #915 was moved to Strasburg, PA on June 11 to be turned over to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. Source.


----------



## Ryan

Pictures all over the place in the NEC Railfans Facebook Group too.


----------



## Triley

Seems like they're being retired a little quick. I heard a rumor earlier about four certain engines being put back out on the road. I won't say any more on that for the time being however.


----------



## Hal

Triley said:


> Seems like they're being retired a little quick. I heard a rumor earlier about four certain engines being put back out on the road. I won't say any more on that for the time being however.


Four of the HHP-8. They are being mothballed, not scrapped because they are leased, so they can reduce the shortage by bringing them back.


----------



## Acela150

Hal said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like they're being retired a little quick. I heard a rumor earlier about four certain engines being put back out on the road. I won't say any more on that for the time being however.
> 
> 
> 
> Four of the HHP-8. They are being mothballed, not scrapped because they are leased, so they can reduce the shortage by bringing them back.
Click to expand...

The HHP's are stored at Bear. They will only bring back AEM-7AC's. That's if they have too. Last I heard only 2 or 3 AC's are OOS. 901, 936, and 943. 901 has been OOS for quite some time though.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

I don't know my engines, except the Sprinter (because they're new), but do know there's usually an old engine on #85 as I see it everyday as I walk towards WIL after work.


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Hal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like they're being retired a little quick. I heard a rumor earlier about four certain engines being put back out on the road. I won't say any more on that for the time being however.
> 
> 
> 
> Four of the HHP-8. They are being mothballed, not scrapped because they are leased, so they can reduce the shortage by bringing them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The HHP's are stored at Bear. They will only bring back AEM-7AC's. That's if they have too. Last I heard only 2 or 3 AC's are OOS. 901, 936, and 943. 901 has been OOS for quite some time though.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you're wrong, and Hal is right. Much to the chagrin of every engineer on the corridor.


----------



## gephoto

Sitting in the diner at the Red Caboose Motel I see one or two AEM-7s at Strasburg RR. When I looked again they had moved them. I'll try to post photos of them today and see what they have planned for them.

*LINK*


----------



## OBS

HHP 654 was parked at Wilmington shops yesterday, when I cruised by..........or 684.....or 694.....didn't pay close attention...LOL


----------



## neroden

At some point, I saw the lease expiration dates for the individual HHP-8s. I strongly suspect they'll be retired exactly when the leases expire.


----------



## neroden

On another topic, I really hope that at least one AEM-7-DC gets saved for the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania or whereever. There is a serious chance that they'll all get scrapped, which would be a bad result historically....

....and I see that gephoto has linked to a press release alleviating my worries. 

#915 saved for history. Awesome.

I hope RR Museum of Pennsylvania can also get some spare parts from the other AEM-7s being retired.


----------



## R30A

As one AEM7DC arrived at the Railroad Museum of PA yesterday, I do not share your worry that all will be scrapped


----------



## Acela150

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like they're being retired a little quick. I heard a rumor earlier about four certain engines being put back out on the road. I won't say any more on that for the time being however.
> 
> 
> 
> Four of the HHP-8. They are being mothballed, not scrapped because they are leased, so they can reduce the shortage by bringing them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The HHP's are stored at Bear. They will only bring back AEM-7AC's. That's if they have too. Last I heard only 2 or 3 AC's are OOS. 901, 936, and 943. 901 has been OOS for quite some time though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm afraid you're wrong, and Hal is right. Much to the chagrin of every engineer on the corridor.
Click to expand...

Per several Amtrak Enginners on the NEC Facebook page, the HHP's are NOT returning to service. They must undergo the 92 day inspection which is performed at WIL shops. On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.


----------



## neroden

Acela150 said:


> On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.


Oooh. An interesting renumbering decision. This requires going back and repainting the numbers on all of them to add 30. (5->8, 6->9). It also leaves room for only 10 potential option purchases on the ACS-64s (including #666)... I don't know why but I was expecting them to be renumbered at the hundreds digit. Maybe all those series are being saved for the Chargers.


----------



## MikefromCrete

neroden said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh. An interesting renumbering decision. This requires going back and repainting the numbers on all of them to add 30. (5->8, 6->9). It also leaves room for only 10 potential option purchases on the ACS-64s (including #666)... I don't know why but I was expecting them to be renumbered at the hundreds digit. Maybe all those series are being saved for the Chargers.
Click to expand...

Those HHP's will be off the roster long before there are new ACS-64s. Since they're just sitting in a yard right now, I doubt if they will even be repainted into their new numbers. They'll never see service again and will be sent back to Bombardier as soon as the lease is up.


----------



## neroden

MikefromCrete said:


> Those HHP's will be off the roster long before there are new ACS-64s. Since they're just sitting in a yard right now, I doubt if they will even be repainted into their new numbers. They'll never see service again and will be sent back to Bombardier as soon as the lease is up.


If I remember anything about railroad regulations, I think they have to have the new numbers painted on in order to move 'em. I wouldn't expect a nice job to be done of it.


----------



## Dutchrailnut

they can be moved under their own numbers they will just get Bombardier reporting marks BBRX added to them , they willl not run for Amtrak again.

as for spares if Amtrak wanted to put engines back in service they have AEM-7ac's sitting around and will keep spares.


----------



## gephoto

Is there a way to post a photo here?


----------



## Triley

Acela150 said:


> Per several Amtrak Enginners on the NEC Facebook page, the HHP's are NOT returning to service. They must undergo the 92 day inspection which is performed at WIL shops. On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.


And per the Amtrak Employee Facebook page, there are four returning to service, and I saw no corrections on that post. So, I guess we'll have to see.


----------



## gephoto

Is there a way to post a photo here?


----------



## Acela150

Triley said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per several Amtrak Enginners on the NEC Facebook page, the HHP's are NOT returning to service. They must undergo the 92 day inspection which is performed at WIL shops. On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.
> 
> 
> 
> And per the Amtrak Employee Facebook page, there are four returning to service, and I saw no corrections on that post. So, I guess we'll have to see.
Click to expand...

The engineers who post on the NEC page are exclusive to the NEC and don't give out bad info. One even mentioned that they are running more ACS units then AEM-7's. I trust him. I would try to find out where that employee is getting their info. If they're based anywhere outside of the NEC don't believe it.


----------



## Fan Railer

gephoto said:


> Is there a way to post a photo here?


Yes... in the tool bar, there is an "image" button, which opens up a sub-window in which you paste the link of the photo you're trying to post.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Fan Railer said:


> gephoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a way to post a photo here?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes... in the tool bar, there is an "image" button, which opens up a sub-window in which you paste the link of the photo you're trying to post.
Click to expand...

Or go to More Reply Options and attach a photo from your computer


----------



## Hal

Acela150 said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Per several Amtrak Enginners on the NEC Facebook page, the HHP's are NOT returning to service. They must undergo the 92 day inspection which is performed at WIL shops. On top of that a bulletin put out several weeks ago states HHP's are now numbered 680-694.
> 
> 
> 
> And per the Amtrak Employee Facebook page, there are four returning to service, and I saw no corrections on that post. So, I guess we'll have to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The engineers who post on the NEC page are exclusive to the NEC and don't give out bad info. One even mentioned that they are running more ACS units then AEM-7's. I trust him. I would try to find out where that employee is getting their info. If they're based anywhere outside of the NEC don't believe it.
Click to expand...

It is a rumor going around the NEC. Of course the rumor is from engineers based on the NEC. Why would any other engineers care? They don't have to run them. We shall see if it goes from rumor to fact.


----------



## gephoto

Oops.. Hit post too quickly.


----------



## Ryan

Nice shot, yours?

The 603 looks like crap. Hopefully the 915 doesn't suffer the same fate.


----------



## ronkstevens

Ryan said:


> Nice shot, yours?
> 
> The 603 looks like crap. Hopefully the 915 doesn't suffer the same fate.


It would be nice to see 603 returned to its original Phase II paint scheme and number, and 915 to its original Phase III


----------



## gephoto

Yes. Shot it this morning after the ns f9 pair arrived with an exhibit car for an event at the museum today.


----------



## Ryan

That's awesome, thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Caesar La Rock

Hopefully they repaint the AEM-7 and E60 into their original paint scheme. Thanks for posting the picture and it's great to see more Amtrak pieces being preserved.


----------



## Acela150

Ryan said:


> Nice shot, yours?
> 
> The 603 looks like crap. Hopefully the 915 doesn't suffer the same fate.


I'm going to burst that bubble and say that it most likely will.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Acela150 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shot, yours?
> 
> The 603 looks like crap. Hopefully the 915 doesn't suffer the same fate.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to burst that bubble and say that it most likely will.
Click to expand...


Good gravy. Look at the 603!! If that's the way they intend to treat the 915, just cut it up now!


----------



## gephoto

Fingers crossed the stainless steel holds up well but one of the staff said the air there seems to be especially rough on metal.

I'll post a couple more pics later.

They found torpedoes in both cabs after it was delivered.


----------



## MattW

Now that just looks good! I am so glad at least one of the venerable toasters has been preserved!


----------



## Acela150

Thirdrail7 said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shot, yours?
> 
> The 603 looks like crap. Hopefully the 915 doesn't suffer the same fate.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to burst that bubble and say that it most likely will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good gravy. Look at the 603!! If that's the way they intend to treat the 915, just cut it up now!
Click to expand...

The RRPA just doesn't have the money to keep stuff looking pretty. It's just how it is.  My father had a membership there, but My Mom and I agreed to let the membership expire after his passing last year. The last time I was in the facility there was well over 10 years ago!


----------



## TylerP42

Isn't that NS Train a passenger car special?


----------



## Acela150

Yes. NS loaned the RRPA the F's for RRPA's NS Days.


----------



## TylerP42

Ah, I saw it go through Toledo the other day.


----------



## Thirdrail7

I was looking at something and noticed Amtrak on has 18 out of 29 remans in service. Grab the pictures while you can.


----------



## Seaboard92

On my recent trip WAS-NYP as part of the Star and Meteor. I can say I saw several out and running


----------



## Thirdrail7

There now 14 Amtrak AEM-7s left in active service. I'm thinking the number will be 10 in less than 3 weeks.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon

I saw 908 a few days ago at TRE. It had the honor of leading an LD train (the Silver Meteor) as far as WAS. I am really going to miss the AEM-7s, and I can't seem to take to the new ACS-64s.  Maybe in time.

Also, SEPTA has something that looks like an AEM-7, with old passenger cars attached, sitting at TRE. I think it might be there to provide power for the SEPTA trains? I will look for the number and research it (unless jis or Ryan already knows the answer and beats me to it!  )


----------



## keelhauled

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I saw 908 a few days ago at TRE. It had the honor of leading an LD train (the Silver Meteor) as far as WAS. I am really going to miss the AEM-7s, and I can't seem to take to the new ACS-64s.  Maybe in time.
> 
> Also, SEPTA has something that looks like an AEM-7, with old passenger cars attached, sitting at TRE. I think it might be there to provide power for the SEPTA trains? I will look for the number and research it (unless jis or Ryan already knows the answer and beats me to it!  )


SEPTA operates AEM-7s. They will be replaced by ACS-64s later this decade.


----------



## Thirdrail7

The remans are still holding at 10.


----------



## jis

Doesn't SEPTA have a number of AEM-7s and one ALP-44 as I recall? They acquired the ALP-44 as penalty payment for a Bombardier goof up on some other contract as I seem to remember.


----------



## Acela150

jis said:


> Doesn't SEPTA have a number of AEM-7s and one ALP-44 as I recall? They acquired the ALP-44 as penalty payment for a Bombardier goof up on some other contract as I seem to remember.


Right on! It's 7 or 8 toasters and a single ALP. That was a "Fix it" for the Norristown Trolleys..


----------



## Andrew

jis said:


> Doesn't SEPTA have a number of AEM-7s and one ALP-44 as I recall? They acquired the ALP-44 as penalty payment for a Bombardier goof up on some other contract as I seem to remember.


When was the Notice to Proceed issued for the new Sprinter Locomotives?


----------



## jis

Andrew said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't SEPTA have a number of AEM-7s and one ALP-44 as I recall? They acquired the ALP-44 as penalty payment for a Bombardier goof up on some other contract as I seem to remember.
> 
> 
> 
> When was the Notice to Proceed issued for the new Sprinter Locomotives?
Click to expand...

I don't know. What on earth does that have to do with how many AEM-7s and ALP-44s SEPTA has, completely beats me though.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Acela150 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't SEPTA have a number of AEM-7s and one ALP-44 as I recall? They acquired the ALP-44 as penalty payment for a Bombardier goof up on some other contract as I seem to remember.
> 
> 
> 
> Right on! It's 7 or 8 toasters and a single ALP. That was a "Fix it" for the Norristown Trolleys..
Click to expand...

They have 7 DCs and one ALP44-M. The Amtrak count is down to 9 remans that remain active. By active, that means they have yet to be stored or decommissioned. It doesn't mean they are necessarily operating.


----------



## Thirdrail7

There are 5 remaining in service.


----------



## Thirdrail7

How quickly five became three.


----------



## CSXfoamer1997

Welp, with only 3 in service now, it won't be too long now.

How many ACS-64's are in service now?


----------



## Ryan

Looks like the last we'll see if them is on MARC duty. I need to get out and get some last shots.


----------



## PRR 60

Ryan said:


> Looks like the last we'll see if them is on MARC duty. I need to get out and get some last shots.


I think SEPTA's AEM7's may outlast MARC's by about a year. SEPTA expects their ACS-64's in 2018-19.


----------



## Ryan

Sorry, I meant Amtrak's AEM's. MARC's are already toast.


----------



## Acela150

Ryan said:


> Sorry, I meant Amtrak's AEM's. MARC's are already toast.


It is a site to see Amtrak toasters on a set of MARC K cars..


----------



## Ryan

It means I get a 125 MPH ride to work, so I'm a fan.


----------



## edjbox

Anyone knows which Amtrak trains will have aem-7s this weekend? Please post when you find out


----------



## Thirdrail7

If nothing changes, it is likely 89(20) and 19(20) will have AEM-7s.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Ryan said:


> Sorry, I meant Amtrak's AEM's. MARC's are already toast.


Actually, the MARC units still exist. They are in the north end of Ivy City. They have not been decommissioned.


----------



## Ryan

Thanks, that's interesting, haven't seen them running in quite some time. Love to see them once more.

Is 4901 still sitting up in Riverside, or did they bring her back?


----------



## Thirdrail7

edjbox said:


> Anyone knows which Amtrak trains will have aem-7s this weekend? Please post when you find out



156(20) will have an AEM-7 and 19(20) is still scheduled to have an AEM-7.



Ryan said:


> Thanks, that's interesting, haven't seen them running in quite some time. Love to see them once more.
> 
> Is 4901 still sitting up in Riverside, or did they bring her back?


The 4901 is officially retired. It flashed over quite some time ago. The rest of the MARC AEM-7s are in the north end of Ivy City. You can see them from the right of way if you look to your left departing WAS. They are just north of the new substation. The last time I passed through the area, two of them had their pantographs up, one had it down.

It looks like MARC has the last of everything except the ALP-44s!


----------



## Thirdrail7

I really wonder if the 917 is retired. It is due inspection and the last two units were put back in service. It would make sense to have more than two units available for MARC, who seems to be using two at a clip.


----------



## edjbox

Anyone know the date of the AEM-7s final run?


----------



## edjbox

any updates?


----------



## Acela150

917 has been retired. And there are only 3 left. 927, 942, and 946.


----------



## Ryan

942 working it in MARC service this morning:


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## Acela150

And now she's on her way to Boston on 94.


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## edjbox

heard #942 broke down at NYP and was replaced by an ACS-64


----------



## Triley

edjbox said:


> heard #942 broke down at NYP and was replaced by an ACS-64


While trying to figure out what train it could have been (173 I'm guessing? Also, what in the world is going on that's delaying everything between WIL and BAL tonight? It's causing 66 to still be sitting in WAS, after sitting there for an hour and 40 minutes currently), I noticed that 173 did a time warp today. It arrived in to NYP at 4:38pm, and departed at 4:35pm. Another whacky day on the rails I guess.


----------



## Amtrak505&8306

I have signed a petition to preserve AEM7AC 929. Check it out on Change.org here's the link: https://www.change.org/p/amtrak-preserve-aem-7ac-929


----------



## Ryan

Triley said:


> edjbox said:
> 
> 
> 
> heard #942 broke down at NYP and was replaced by an ACS-64
> 
> 
> 
> While trying to figure out what train it could have been (173 I'm guessing? Also, what in the world is going on that's delaying everything between WIL and BAL tonight? It's causing 66 to still be sitting in WAS, after sitting there for an hour and 40 minutes currently), I noticed that 173 did a time warp today. It arrived in to NYP at 4:38pm, and departed at 4:35pm. Another whacky day on the rails I guess.
Click to expand...

Flooding just north of WAS. The same place there was a fire that temporarily shut things down in the morning. Sometimes it's just one of those days...
MARC has another AEM, its pushing me to WAS now. Try to get the number and a picture when we arrive.

Edit: 927 is pulling MARC duty...


----------



## CSXfoamer1997

Welp, I just read that the last 3 AC units on Amtrak have now been retired. The AEM-7's have now been officially retired from Amtrak service.

Now would be the time to do something to bid farewell to those good old reliable workhorses!


----------



## CCC1007

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> Welp, I just read that the last 3 AC units on Amtrak have now been retired. The AEM-7's have now been officially retired from Amtrak service.
> 
> Now would be the time to do something to bid farewell to those good old reliable workhorses!


Source please. I would like to be able to get independent confirmation as well.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

CCC1007 said:


> CSXfoamer1997 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Welp, I just read that the last 3 AC units on Amtrak have now been retired. The AEM-7's have now been officially retired from Amtrak service.
> 
> Now would be the time to do something to bid farewell to those good old reliable workhorses!
> 
> 
> 
> Source please. I would like to be able to get independent confirmation as well.
Click to expand...

If he read it on FB or Wiki, then he read erroneous information. Apparently some foamer was messing with Wiki and someone posted it on FB.


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## AmtrakBlue

I have a reliable source that says at least one it going out on a run today.


----------



## Acela150

Amtrak505&8306 said:


> I have signed a petition to preserve AEM7AC 929. Check it out on Change.org here's the link: https://www.change.org/p/amtrak-preserve-aem-7ac-929


Take this BS back to Facebook..



CSXfoamer1997 said:


> Welp, I just read that the last 3 AC units on Amtrak have now been retired. The AEM-7's have now been officially retired from Amtrak service.
> 
> Now would be the time to do something to bid farewell to those good old reliable workhorses!


You really need to get better sources.. Cause everytime you post something that you just "read something" or "heard somewhere" that this that and the other thing happened it turns out to be complete non sense.. Your sources are absolutely horrible..


----------



## R30A

I reverted wikipedia to the prior entry. 

Wow! I unretired the AEM7s!!!


----------



## CSXfoamer1997

AmtrakBlue said:


> CCC1007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CSXfoamer1997 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Welp, I just read that the last 3 AC units on Amtrak have now been retired. The AEM-7's have now been officially retired from Amtrak service.
> 
> Now would be the time to do something to bid farewell to those good old reliable workhorses!
> 
> 
> 
> Source please. I would like to be able to get independent confirmation as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If he read it on FB or Wiki, then he read erroneous information. Apparently some foamer was messing with Wiki and someone posted it on FB.
Click to expand...

List of Amtrak rolling stock from Wikipedia.


----------



## Ryan

Well that explains that.


----------



## MikefromCrete

CSX, you need to get better sources.


----------



## CCC1007

AMTK 927 reported as operating on the Vermonter southbound today


----------



## Ryan

Unpossible, Facebook says they are done.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Ryan said:


> Unpossible, Facebook says they are done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1456776392.017940.jpg


Ryan, Ryan, Ryan. You know better than to believe everything you read on FB. I mean, I'm always seeing you Like The Onion on FB.


----------



## A Voice

Ryan said:


> Unpossible, Facebook says they are done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1456776392.017940.jpg


Can we please just retire Facebook itself? The world would be so much better off...


----------



## jis

A Voice said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unpossible, Facebook says they are done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1456776392.017940.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can we please just retire Facebook itself? The world would be so much better off...
Click to expand...

I disagree, but then everyone is entitled to an opinion


----------



## AmtrakBlue

jis said:


> A Voice said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unpossible, Facebook says they are done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1456776392.017940.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Can we please just retire Facebook itself? The world would be so much better off...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree, but then everyone is entitled to an opinion
Click to expand...

I'm with Jis. There's a lot of good, accurate info on FB that I would not otherwise be aware of.

And because I'm FB friends with a diverse group of people, I see many sides to stories - more than I would watching my favorite TV news program.


----------



## Ryan

I'm with those people as well.


----------



## CCC1007

That post has been deleted


----------



## Ryan

There are a great many others.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

CCC1007 said:


> That post has been deleted


And an apology from Altoona Works was just posted on FB


----------



## Acela150

Altoona Works is usually reliable.. But they will delete any comments that will correct their info unless it comes in waves. Like it did with the AEM-7's..


----------



## Agent

Is it odd that this thread is reminding me of this?


----------



## CCC1007

Like I've been saying over on Facebook, "Like I said earlier, don't have the Viking burial at sea until you have official confirmation of death."


----------



## AmtrakBlue

CCC1007 said:


> Like I've been saying over on Facebook, "Like I said earlier, don't have the Viking burial at sea until you have official confirmation of death."


Now I know (or remember from chat) your real name.


----------



## Seaboard92

Csx, here is how I would do your research from now on. Do it like you are doing a high school or better yet college essay that requires a works cited. Wikipedia and Facebook would get you a failing grade so don't use them. You can use secondary sources like the NY Times, Washington Post, Trains Magazine, Railway Gazette, etc... As for them to post something it is considered credible information as they likely have their sources. Primary sources are ok when they are coming from a person. So let's say with my business if you ask me about it and I talk about it I'm a primary source. But then when you tell someone else about what I said it becomes a secondary source. Which aren't the best to use but can be used if your primary is credible. I tend to be someone whom won't believe it till I see it from a primary source. Or a reliable secondary source. That's just my tip on how to minimize confusion. And to help make you look better. Just my two cents.


----------



## neroden

Rule of thumb for a journalist is get two independent sources (i.e. they're not getting their information from each other or from the same primary source.)


----------



## Thirdrail7

You may want to go out and take a picture of the 946 on train 95(2). This may be the last run on an Amtrak train. 942 is with the MARC AEM-7s (which haven't budged in quite some time) and they decommissioned the 927 when it arrived off 141(1).


----------



## edjbox

what does a decommissioned AEM-7 look like in Washington compared to one just sitting there waiting for its next assignment?


----------



## CCC1007

Pantograph down is one way of guessing.


----------



## keelhauled

CCC1007 said:


> Pantograph dozen is one way of guessing.


Pantograph down?


----------



## CCC1007

Yep, sorry


----------



## edjbox

I've heard though that sometimes after they put the pantograph down they later put it back up. I've heard about this with other AEM-7s in the past few weeks and I've seen it with a MARC HHP-8 with its pantograph down one day then later seeing that unit back in service.


----------



## CCC1007

Hence why I said "guessing"


----------



## Thirdrail7

edjbox said:


> what does a decommissioned AEM-7 look like in Washington compared to one just sitting there waiting for its next assignment?


Very simple...a decommissioned unit wouldn't be in Washington. They ship it to WIL, like the 927.


----------



## edjbox

Now any AEM-7s left?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

edjbox said:


> Now any AEM-7s left?


I think there's still 2 left.


----------



## Acela150

942 and 946


----------



## edjbox

which trains did 942 and 946 run today or will run tomorrow?


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## Acela150

946 was shopped for an A/C cover that was falling off or had fallen off. 942 was reported in MARC service as of late.


----------



## Thirdrail7

edjbox said:


> which trains did 942 and 946 run today or will run tomorrow?


Neither engine operated as they were shopped. I wonder if they will head to MARC service again. We'll find out soon enough.


----------



## west point

Third rail: Any idea of what MARC would rather do ? Operate their hippos or park them and use the Amtrak AEM-7ACs ? As well what would Amtrak rather do as far as maintenance and operations ? Has any MARC trains have had an ACS-64 yet ?


----------



## neroden

So SEPTA's still operating AEM-7s... and poor MARC is still operating both AEM-7s and the benighted HHP-8s? I wonder if MARC has considered leasing some of the ex-Amtrak AEM-7s for a year or two in order to avoid maintaining the HHP-8s, which apparently *nobody* likes maintaining.


----------



## TylerP42

neroden said:


> So SEPTA's still operating AEM-7s... and poor MARC is still operating both AEM-7s and the benighted HHP-8s? I wonder if MARC has considered leasing some of the ex-Amtrak AEM-7s for a year or two in order to avoid maintaining the HHP-8s, which apparently *nobody* likes maintaining.


Don't they have to be shopped/sent to maintenence every 14 days?


----------



## Ryan

neroden said:


> So SEPTA's still operating AEM-7s... and poor MARC is still operating both AEM-7s and the benighted HHP-8s? I wonder if MARC has considered leasing some of the ex-Amtrak AEM-7s for a year or two in order to avoid maintaining the HHP-8s, which apparently *nobody* likes maintaining.


That wouldn't really be on MARC, singe they contract to Amtrak for maintenance. If Amtrak wanted to propose that to MARC management, they could.


----------



## Thirdrail7

west point said:


> Third rail: Any idea of what MARC would rather do ? Operate their hippos or park them and use the Amtrak AEM-7ACs ? As well what would Amtrak rather do as far as maintenance and operations ? Has any MARC trains have had an ACS-64 yet ?


It seems as though MARC has a grip on a few AEM-7s to protect the HHP-8s and diesels. They used the 946 today. MARC hasn't touched an ACS at this point.


----------



## edjbox

the same two (942 and 946) are still in Washington, in fact 942 was in MARC service this morning


----------



## Thirdrail7

edjbox said:


> the same two (942 and 946) are still in Washington, in fact 942 was in MARC service this morning


The 942 must find retirement boring. It went out and found a new job! It is taking a joyride with the 928 to the FRA test facility. I believe they want to test some sort of voltage....catenary....difference...meters.....changeover...resistance....resistors??

Ok, I'm not sure what they are doing because the explanation made no sense to me since it was laced with jargon and enthusiasm. However, I remember those words as my eyes glazed over and I went down for the third time. :help:

Hopefully, KnightRider will see this and fill in the blanks.


----------



## KnightRail

Breadcrumbs in the HHP retirement thread.


----------



## KnightRail

29(11) 78, 146, 942, 928 all of course subject to good behavior.


----------



## JohannFarley

I can currently see 947 and 928 sitting in the Chicago yard. I saw another earlier being pulled into one of the buildings, but didn't get a number.


----------



## amtraknortheast1

KnightRail said:


> 29(11) 78, 146, 942, 928 all of course subject to good behavior.


As stated, Cap Limited #29 had AC unit 942 and DC unit 928 trailing behind the road power on July 11th. According to STB recordations filed in June at latest and some filed earlier, the FRA may be in control of up to 19 AEM-7s now. This includes 7 AC units and 12 DC units. The rest that have not been scrapped or are under FRA control have been handed over to Wells Fargo. Unconfirmed reports of sales to the southwestern electrified coal railroads (BMLP, Navajo, Deseret...). So basically, they are almost all "off the roster" (in terms of control).


----------



## amtraknortheast1

JohannFarley said:


> I can currently see 947 and 928 sitting in the Chicago yard. I saw another earlier being pulled into one of the buildings, but didn't get a number.


You sure that's 947 and not 942?


----------



## JohannFarley

amtraknortheast1 said:


> JohannFarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can currently see 947 and 928 sitting in the Chicago yard. I saw another earlier being pulled into one of the buildings, but didn't get a number.
> 
> 
> 
> You sure that's 947 and not 942?
Click to expand...

It could be, im viewing from pretty far away.


----------



## KnightRail

They are not staying in town for long. 300p tomorrow they are off to LAJ.


----------



## Acela150

amtraknortheast1 said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> 
> 29(11) 78, 146, 942, 928 all of course subject to good behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> As stated, Cap Limited #29 had AC unit 942 and DC unit 928 trailing behind the road power on July 11th.
Click to expand...

Both units are AC propulsion.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Here are some videos of the hard working AEM7 number 945 as it heads to its retirement job at the Illinois Railway Museum. It sure beats heading under the scrapping torch.


----------



## Ryan

Amazing how small that looks between a P42 and a Superliner.


----------



## DSS&A

I saw AEM-7 945 parked in Amtrak's Chicago Canal Street yard early this afternoon as my train passed the yard.


----------



## Dutchrailnut

rumored to be heading to IRM.


----------



## Ryan

Is heading to IRM.


----------



## KnightRail

At some point today two AEM7s were moved from within the Wilmington facility to one of the tracks adjacent to the mainline tracks, usually where equipment slated for imminent further movement is placed...


----------



## Acela150

KnightRail said:


> At some point today two AEM7s were moved from within the Wilmington facility to one of the tracks adjacent to the mainline tracks, usually where equipment slated for imminent further movement is placed...


A guess says it's going to Bear for storage.


----------



## Ryan

I thought they got sold and are heading west...


----------



## KnightRail

929 & 938 with all Amtrak markings spray paint patched over, a step that would be unlikely to be simply stored at Bear...


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

They're probably going to San Jose to become test equipment for Caltrain. As of November, Caltrain was expecting to recieve two in February. If that is the case, I will try to get pictures when they pass through Chicago.


----------



## Thirdrail7

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> They're probably going to San Jose to become test equipment for Caltrain.


They are definitely the aforementioned Caltrain units.


----------



## GiantsFan

Thirdrail7 said:


> They are definitely the aforementioned Caltrain units.


Oh nice! I’ll have to go check em out once they’re here! Things are progressing pretty rapidly on the electrification here.


----------



## Agent

What train would they take from Chicago (if that's definitive and publicly releasable information)?


----------



## Acela150

Agent said:


> What train would they take from Chicago (if that's definitive and publicly releasable information)?


I would guess and take this with a grain of salt please. The CZ. As for when? Perhaps an insider could enlighten us.


----------



## KnightRail

*Cough*


----------



## AmtrakBlue

KnightRail said:


> *Cough*


Born again Baptism by flood?


----------



## Ryan

They left WAS today.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Ryan said:


> They left WAS today.


You beat me to it. Just saw the FB post from 1 hour ago.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Here they are crossing the Chicago River on 29.


----------



## Agent

Here are 929 and 938 riding behind the P42s as Amtrak #5(05) slowly came through Agency, Iowa last night about two hours late. Are these two still traveling with AMTK reporting marks, or do they have new ones now?


----------



## Thirdrail7

Some AEM-7s may move to RI earlier next month. Someone has their eye on them. Keep a sharp watch and an ear to the ground.


----------



## Thirdrail7

15 AEM-7s have moved into position in WIL. They will move to NJ this weekend and to CT in two batches, From there, they will go to their new owners in RI. I believe this only leaves the 901 on the property.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Thirdrail7 said:


> 15 AEM-7s have moved into position in WIL. They will move to NJ this weekend and to CT in two batches, From there, they will go to their new owners in RI. I believe this only leaves the 901 on the property.



Saw pics of them (15, I think)on FB leaving Bear the other day. And pics of 917 & 942 in Wilmington.


----------



## NTL1991

Have we heard who the new owners in RI are?

I've heard the State of Rhode Island and Keolis/MBTA being thrown around as possibilities.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

NTL1991 said:


> Have we heard who the new owners in RI are?
> 
> I've heard the State of Rhode Island and Keolis/MBTA being thrown around as possibilities.


----------



## Dutchrailnut

From Amtrak Employee on other forum : Additionally, I think the talk about RIDOT and MBTA may be premature. They're just being stored in Quonset Point for the outfit from the left coast that bought them. I don't know if the new owners will ultimately end up selling/leasing them to the T but I suppose it could happen.


----------



## cocojacoby

Other threads mention testing on the MBTA. The T has said they are very serious about electrifying the commuter rail system. The Attleboro Line is the only one with catenary at this time.


----------



## Thirdrail7

NTL1991 said:


> Have we heard who the new owners in RI are?
> 
> I've heard the State of Rhode Island and Keolis/MBTA being thrown around as possibilities.



They belong to an outfit in California and they are being stored in Quonset Point on their behalf.

Here is a video of the move from WIL to Hudson:


----------



## AG1

Interesting that the headlight on the rear engine was put on and off as it passed by, possibly signaling the videographer.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

AG1 said:


> Interesting that the headlight on the rear engine was put on and off as it passed by, possibly signaling the videographer.



I heard that they were doing that for the rail fans/photographers


----------



## rickycourtney

Thirdrail7 said:


> They belong to an outfit in California


Do we have any idea who this outfit in California is?

Caltrain seems like the only “railroad” that would have any use for them.

Of course, “outfit” doesn’t mean railroad, and just because they’re in California doesn’t mean they need to be used in the Golden State.


----------



## Thirdrail7

rickycourtney said:


> Do we have any idea who this outfit in California is?




Yes, we do...but I don't know if they want it broadcasted since they are supposed to be silent partners. 



rickycourtney said:


> Do w
> Of course, “outfit” doesn’t mean railroad, and just because they’re in California doesn’t mean they need to be used in the Golden State.




Yes, that is extremely likely.


----------



## Asher

This is a link you can copy and paste. Video of where EM7's are going


----------



## Acela150

Only 2 AEM-7's went to Caltrain.


----------



## gswager

Testing the Caltrain canary?


----------



## Dutchrailnut




----------



## gswager

Darn! Got an "F" on spelling!

It should be *Catenary.*


----------

