# Zones



## rile42 (Sep 21, 2011)

I know this has probably been handled to death lately, but I just can't seem to get it figured out. I have always redeemed one-zone trips. I lost out on the loophole trips when they were taken out. Now is when my confusion reigns. After the loopholes were "corrected" I thought if you started in one zone, traveled into another zone, then returned to the zone from which you started, it was a three zone trip.

I recently read a post concerning that very type of trip and it was stated that type of trip is currently considered a two-zone trip. Is that now the case? If so, what are some of the longest trips that can be taken under that scenario?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 21, 2011)

rile42 said:


> After the loopholes were "corrected" I thought if you started in one zone, traveled into another zone, then returned to the zone from which you started, it was a three zone trip.


Yup.



rile42 said:


> I recently read a post concerning that very type of trip and it was stated that type of trip is currently considered a two-zone trip. Is that now the case?


I'm not sure how to answer that without seeing the post in question or at least listing the endpoints.


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## Shanghai (Sep 21, 2011)

It is my understanding that the zone count is based on the number of zones you enter.

For example, you can go from Toledo, OH to Seattle, WA on a two zone trip.

You may also go Cincinnati, OH to Los Angeles for two zones.

Atlanta or Miami to San Diego or Denver would also be two zones.


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## jdcnosse (Sep 21, 2011)

So, for example...would it be possible to go CHI to LAX (via SWC) then up to EMY and back to CHI (via CZ) and only have to pay for one zone?


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## rile42 (Sep 21, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> rile42 said:
> 
> 
> > After the loopholes were "corrected" I thought if you started in one zone, traveled into another zone, then returned to the zone from which you started, it was a three zone trip.
> ...


I was reading a thread called "One more probably answered before" where the_traveler among others made the post concerning the two-zone trip as I described.


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> rile42 said:
> 
> 
> > After the loopholes were "corrected" I thought if you started in one zone, traveled into another zone, then returned to the zone from which you started, it was a three zone trip.
> ...


Nope!




KCY-LAX-PDX-CBS is counted as 2 zones!

They count the number of zones you travel thru. In this case, you would travel thru the midwest and western zones. You do travel thru the midwest zone again, but that was already counted once.

And you can not start and end the same award from the same city. That would require 2 awards.


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## Rail Freak (Sep 21, 2011)

Once again, I'm confused! :blink: I thought you added another zone each time you crossed a zone border!?!?


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2011)

Basically, that is the way it happens. But if you are forced to go out of the zone due to the routing, you are not penalized for re-entering that same zone.

If you were, the "old" Slidell loophole would now be 4 zones - because you are in the midwest zone twice. But as you know, there is not a 4 zone AGR award level!


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## Rail Freak (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Basically, that is the way it happens. But if you are forced to go out of the zone due to the routing, you are not penalized for re-entering that same zone.



Give me an example, please!


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> They count the number of zones you travel thru. In this case, you would travel thru the midwest and western zones. You do travel thru the midwest zone again, but that was already counted once. And you can not start and end the same award from the same city. That would require 2 awards.


Then what was all that talk of *yours* about the new "four-zone" points charge?! If they're not counting each zone _crossing_ then how can you reach a four zone charge?!

Edit: I see above you're no longer claiming that a four-zone charge is possible, but several posts of yours claimed otherwise previously.

I'm not sure what has changed since then. Can you elaborate?

I've had Amtrak AGR staff tell me point blank that crossing between two zones repeatedly incurs a new zone charge and for that reason I have avoided doing so. Is there something either of us is missing in this equation?


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2011)

One example is above. Another is from SDL or BHM to MSP. If you go via NOL (and pay for the room overnight) and continue to CHI and MSP, it would be 1 zone, since you are remaining in the midwest zone. However if you go SDL (or BHM) to WAS, and then WAS-CHI-MSP, it would be 2 zones (not 3) since you had to cross into the eastern zone!

I don't think it would be fair for any passengers who love between ATL and NOL that they are the only ones that have to redeem a 4 zone AGR award. Do you?


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Edit: I see above you're no longer claiming that a four-zone charge is possible, but several posts of yours claimed otherwise previously.
> 
> I'm not sure what has changed since then. Can you elaborate?
> 
> I've had Amtrak AGR staff tell me point blank that crossing between two zones repeatedly incurs a new zone charge and for that reason I have avoided doing so. Is there something either of us is missing in this equation?


Before the change was announced, many (including me) questioned if it would be 4 zones. I was wrong (and glad to admit it)!





Ask any of the many AU members who have taken the KCY-LAX-PDX-CBS trip if they redeemed 2 zones or 3 zones?



I've read many posts saying it's still a great deal for 20K (a 2 zone roomette) or 30K (a 2 zone bedroom)!


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## rile42 (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: I see above you're no longer claiming that a four-zone charge is possible, but several posts of yours claimed otherwise previously.
> ...


Is that the longest two-zone trip possible in terms of time traveling?


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## Ispolkom (Sep 21, 2011)

I refuse to believe that AGR rules for circuitious routes are so cut and dried as *The Traveler* thinks.

How many zones is ABQ-LAX-PDX-MSP? I'd say 2, but *FlyingBoat* has booked it as a one-zone award twice, and it wouldn't surprise me if another attempt got the answer that it was a three-zone award.

The same is true with overnight layovers. I've never managed to convince AGR to let me overnight in Chicago when transferring between 2 western trains, but someone (*yarrow* perhaps?) has managed an overnight in Los Angeles between the Coast Starlight and the Sunset Limited.

I don't know that the rules about circuitous routes are actually written down. If the rules are codified, they aren't available to us, and subject to change without notice at any time.

Because of that, I don't believe you can make definite claims about any loopholes, just what your experience has been.


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## fairviewroad (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> ... for any passengers who love between ATL and NOL



Hey, let's not have any discussions of what goes on behind closed doors! -_-


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Before the change was announced, many (including me) questioned if it would be 4 zones. I was wrong (and glad to admit it)!


I have not tried the specific routing you're referring to but I have asked about other possible routings and received the zone-crossing explanation for the additional "mandatory" points fee. After a while I simply stopped bringing it up. Perhaps I need to give it another try and see if anything has changed.



rile42 said:


> Is that the longest two-zone trip possible in terms of time traveling?


Another long one that counts as two-zone award is SAS-SEA/VAC at roughly four and a half days. Not everyone's cup of tea but at least it's already programmed into the system so you don't need argue with anyone to get it. Well, so long as there are no floods, fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, distracted/exhausted truck drivers or clueless industrial cranes fouling the mainline. -_-


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## Rail Freak (Sep 21, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I don't think it would be fair for any passengers who love between ATL and NOL that they are the only ones that have to redeem a 4 zone AGR award. Do you?


Hey, just asking!!!


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## Ryan (Sep 21, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> I don't know that the rules about circuitous routes are actually written down. If the rules are codified, they aren't available to us, and subject to change without notice at any time.
> Because of that, I don't believe you can make definite claims about any loopholes, just what your experience has been.


This, a thousand times over. And one of the most frustrating things about AGR.


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## Ispolkom (Sep 21, 2011)

Ryan said:


> And one of the most frustrating things about AGR.


I think it's the most endearing aspect of AGR. Whenever I call with some sort of hare-brained scheme I always have hope that *this time * I'll put one over on them.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 21, 2011)

Norman OK to SEA works as a nice 2 Zone trip. You get there via the _*Texas Eagle/Sunset*__* Limited*_ connecting with the _*Coast Starlight*_ and return with the _*Coast Starlight*_ connecting to the *Cal Zephyr* at Sacramento which bus bridges to the _*Texas Eagle*_ at Galesburg. And, of course the little but very dependable _*Heartland Flyer*_ gets the trip started and finished. Be ready to spend 7 nights in Sleeper and add about 5 pounds from all the Diner chow


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## Henry Kisor (Sep 28, 2011)

It's my dream to take No. 3 from Chicago to Los Angeles, then No. 11 from Los Angeles to Seattle, all in one trip, no layovers. Would this be considered a two-zone trip? If so, could I persuade Amtrak that 30,000 AGR points would get me CHI-LAX-SEA in a bedroom (not a roomette)?


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## AlanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Henry,

You should have no trouble getting that trip for 30K in a Bedroom. Several people going to the Gathering are doing exactly that. Another is going on the CZ and then connecting with the Starlight on a single award.


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