# 2 numbers on front of engine



## Guest (Jan 16, 2010)

On here I just saw an engine with two number placards (same number over each window) above the engine windows. Each said 4901 for, I guess, the train's number. I saw this on a pic the other day of a freight.

Question: Since these seem to face forward why does the number have to be duplicated? One is over each of the front windows.


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## battalion51 (Jan 16, 2010)

You mean something like this?







This is really a stylistic piece. On motors that are originally designed for freight use it's very common to have two number boards, and even on many passenger units like the F40. It is important that number boards be visible on the motor because this is how work crews, signal maintainers, towers, etc. track the trains. The train symbol is rarely visible on a train, so it's imperative that they have a method to be able to identify the train.


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes, these are the engine number. They are also painted on both sides of the unit. There is a certain amount of angle to these number boards so that they are visible from the side to a certain extent. As noted, trains are normally identified by their engine number. Even, as in with scheduled trains, if there is a train number the train will be identified by both, usually in the form of "train number 123, engine number 4567"


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## Guest_Dutchrailnut_* (Jan 16, 2010)

battalion51 said:


> You mean something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dutchrailnut (Jan 16, 2010)

The number is engine number, its not the train number.


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## Ryan (Jan 16, 2010)

Everyone else nailed it, but here's another engine #4901:


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## PetalumaLoco (Jan 16, 2010)




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## battalion51 (Jan 17, 2010)

Dutchrailnut said:


> The number is engine number, its not the train number.


That's exactly what I was saying Dutch. Very rarely is the train number displayed on the front end of the train. On some commuter roads it is though, as seen below:


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## DET63 (Jan 17, 2010)

I believe the Caltrain commuter trains have the last two digits of the three-digit train number displayed on or near the mirrors of the locomotive (maybe the cab-car, too; I'm not sure).


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 19, 2010)

Usually, on the radio, it is also identified by the engine number. I assume it varies road to road, but it might be division to division, or dispatch to dispatch. Sometimes I hear things like "Amtrak [engine number] Proceed WXY Point N to Mile WXZ Point M under restriction 30, over." responded with "Amtrak [Train number] led [engine number] reads proceed WXY point N to WXZ point M restricted 30, please confirm", and "Amtrak [engine number] WXY point N to WXZ point M restricted 30", "Thank you, sir, Amtrak [engine number] out."

(Obviously, its the dispatcher telling the train of that number, pulled by that engine, that they have authorization between mileposts WXY.N to WXZ.M, but there is a restriction of 30 miles per hour.)


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## PetalumaLoco (Jan 19, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Usually, on the radio, it is also identified by the engine number. I assume it varies road to road, but it might be division to division, or dispatch to dispatch. Sometimes I hear things like "Amtrak [engine number] Proceed WXY Point N to Mile WXZ Point M under restriction 30, over." responded with "Amtrak [Train number] led [engine number] reads proceed WXY point N to WXZ point M restricted 30, please confirm", and "Amtrak [engine number] WXY point N to WXZ point M restricted 30", "Thank you, sir, Amtrak [engine number] out."
> (Obviously, its the dispatcher telling the train of that number, pulled by that engine, that they have authorization between mileposts WXY.N to WXZ.M, but there is a restriction of 30 miles per hour.)


I've always heard the LD trains referred to by dispatchers as the Amtrak train #.


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## battalion51 (Jan 20, 2010)

As GML pointed out it all depends on the road you're on and the area you are in. If you're in signaled territory generally the train symbol is the primary means of identification with the engine number being a secondary means. However in dark territory the engine number is the main identifier on most roads. For RailAmerica roads using GCOR (which is what they primarily use) there isn't even a slot on the track warrant for the train number, just the engine number. Other forms like CSX's Form D have a slot for both.


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## DET63 (Jan 20, 2010)

This brings up a question: if, due to a power-pool arrangement or the like, two freight engines with the same number are leading two different trains in the same area, how do dispatchers and engineers make sure they are giving instructions or authorizations to the right train? Or do railroads go out of their way to make sure something like this doesn't happen?


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## battalion51 (Jan 20, 2010)

Well when you're in an area that's identifying itself by engine number the company it belongs to is ALWAYS used. So for example:

"This will be track warrant ROXB 324 (3-2-4) to the Amtrak 51 dated January the 20th 2010, check box 2 (t-w-o) proceed from Windsor (W-i-n-d-s-o-r) to milepost 75 (7-5), check box 16 (s-i-x-t-e-e-n) track bulletin in effect is 20 (t-w-e-n-t-y), this track warrant contains 2 (t-w-o) boxes checked, they are 2 (t-w-o) and 16 (s-i-x-t-e-e-n)."

In signaled territory it's commonly used when calling signals:

"CSXT Q120 BNSF 4479 North Limited Clear Downtown Hilliard track 1 to 2"


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

These are awesome pictures. I'm rethinking what kitchen art should be.

I think I was missing the angle on the nose. Each number points in a different direction?. They just looked like a duplication on the front. And perhaps the little piece jutting out over the windows actually affords them a little more protection.

Closet Train Lover


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

And, on the MTA 4901 (above) what are the 5 blue circles above the middle lights between the number plates?


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## Ryan (Jan 21, 2010)

That's the horn.

On the MARC 4901 they are on a slight angle - I think I have a better picture of it kicking around somewhere.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 22, 2010)

Its worth noting that not all locomotives have the number on both sides. NJ Transits ALP-46s only have 1 number plate.


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## battalion51 (Jan 23, 2010)

Guest said:


> These are awesome pictures. I'm rethinking what kitchen art should be.
> I think I was missing the angle on the nose. Each number points in a different direction?. They just looked like a duplication on the front. And perhaps the little piece jutting out over the windows actually affords them a little more protection.
> 
> And, on the MTA 4901 (above) what are the 5 blue circles above the middle lights between the number plates?
> ...


Generally there is a slight angle. It's more noticeable on some engines than on others. This is a poor timing shot on my part but it demonstrates the angle on some engines pretty well.






On some though, like cab cars it seems to be more stylistic than anything else. It might look odd to just have a single number board that was off center so they went with the classic two board style as seen below.






On the MARC picture, those five little circles look like the horn to me, unless I'm missing what you're talking about.


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