# MBTA issues



## Fenway

The MBTA on Thursday disclosed yet another problem in the troubled rollout of its new subway cars, saying it is taking its new-model Orange Line cars — 64 in all — out of service after a brake unit in one car malfunctioned.









MBTA Removes New Trains Over Mechanical Issue


All new trains on the Orange Line and Red Line are currently out of service as a precaution after one vehicle suffered a breaking issue.




www.nbcboston.com







I'm beginning to think most of the problems stem from the MBTA, not CRRC.


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## west point

One of two items. Either it is CRRC and the ability to cut corners. Maybe it is MBTA not taking the cars thru a rigorous testing program. Did any of the cars go to Pueblo?


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## Fenway

west point said:


> One of two items. Either it is CRRC and the ability to cut corners. Maybe it is MBTA not taking the cars thru a rigorous testing program. Did any of the cars go to Pueblo?


I believe only the first trainset in the order that was fully assembled in China went to Colorado. Since then the shells of the cars are made in China and sent to Springfield, MA for assembly and then sent to Boston. 

The T has a legacy of being burnt by the low bidders on procurement contracts. 

The CRRC cars just seem cheap compared to new cars I have ridden in Chicago, Montreal, and Toronto, and 20 years from now Boston may be forced to replace these cars.


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## daybeers

Fenway said:


> The T has a legacy of being burnt by the low bidders on procurement contracts.


No, they have a history of burning themselves on low bidders of procurement contracts.


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## Dutchrailnut

back already, New Orange line trains back in service after MBTA identifies braking problem


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## MARC Rider

Dutchrailnut said:


> back already, New Orange line trains back in service after MBTA identifies braking problem


I hope they fixed the problem before they put the cars back in service.


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## Dutchrailnut

New Orange line trains back in service after MBTA identifies braking problem


Preliminary findings indicate that one bolt in one of the car’s eight braking units had not been properly installed at the manufacturing plant.




www.wcvb.com





read and find out.


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## west point

Speculation: Someone forgot to torque the first or last bolt?


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## Dutchrailnut

nope wrong bolt.


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## Fenway

The Federal Transit Administration on Wednesday issued a preliminary report concerning safety issues on the T. One stunning revelation is that dispatchers are working 20-hour shifts, off for 4, and then work another 20 hours. Link to the FTA directives below. 

=





FTA Special Directive 22-8 | FTA


FTA issues Special Directive 22-8 to require the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities (DPU) to oversee the implementation of the four Special Directives issued to the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) that address immediate safety issues based on interim findings made duri




www.transit.dot.gov





2 local news reports 



​


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## Bob Dylan

Fenway said:


> The Federal Transit Administration on Wednesday issued a preliminary report concerning safety issues on the T. One stunning revelation is that dispatchers are working 20-hour shifts, off for 4, and then work another 20 hours. Link to the FTA directives below.
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> FTA Special Directive 22-8 | FTA
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> FTA issues Special Directive 22-8 to require the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities (DPU) to oversee the implementation of the four Special Directives issued to the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) that address immediate safety issues based on interim findings made duri
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> www.transit.dot.gov
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> 2 local news reports
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Is this Legal?


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## Fenway

That didn't take long 






Work to Accelerate Green Line Safety Improvements Begins Monday | News | MBTA


Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.




www.mbta.com


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> That didn't take long
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> Work to Accelerate Green Line Safety Improvements Begins Monday | News | MBTA
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> Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
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> www.mbta.com



That work including the train protection system had been planned for some time.


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## Fenway

The T announced on Friday that starting Monday that the 3 heavy rail lines will reduce weekday service to a Saturday schedule because of a shortage of dispatchers.






Subway Service Changes Take Effect Monday, June 20 | News | MBTA


Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.




www.mbta.com


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## Fenway

Fenway said:


> The T announced on Friday that starting Monday that the 3 heavy rail lines will reduce weekday service to a Saturday schedule because of a shortage of dispatchers.
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> Subway Service Changes Take Effect Monday, June 20 | News | MBTA
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> Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
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> www.mbta.com



It is not playing well on local media











MBTA Slashing Service on 3 T Lines All Summer Amid MBTA Safety Probe


Facing subway dispatcher staffing challenges, the MBTA is cutting service on the Red, Orange and Blue lines all summer starting Monday, the embattled agency said Friday. Those three lines will run on a Saturday schedule during the week — except on July 4, when there will be regular weekday...




www.nbcboston.com













MBTA adjusting schedules for summer due to staff shortage


BOSTON (WHDH) - Weekday service changes for the Red, Orange, and Blue lines will take effect on June 20, the MBTA announced Friday.The changes, set...




whdh.com













MBTA alert: ‘Staffing challenges’ leading to changes in subway service starting on Monday


A heads up for thousands of riders of the MBTA subway. The agency says “staffing challenges among the ranks of subway dispatchers” will lead to changes in service, effective Monday, June 20, and continue through the summer.




www.boston25news.com





It has taken decades of mismanagement to get to this point and back in 2009, the Commonwealth decided the best way to address and change the culture was to create a new Department of Transportation.






Massachusetts Department of Transportation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Restoring commuter rail on the Old Colony Lines in 1997 and Greenbush in 2007 was expensive and the inner city service was neglected. Not including a North-South commuter rail connection when the Big Dig was built was a horrific misjudgment by the Dukakis administration which he candidly admits. 

The T's main union for rank and file workers to this day buys commercial time on Boston TV 



The madding thing is logical infrastructure improvements such as extending the Blue Line to Charles-MGH to connect with the Red Line which the major employer in the area wants keeps getting deferred. 




It is frustrating


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> back in 2009, the Commonwealth decided the best way to address and change the culture was to create a new Department of Transportation.


Because adding a new layer of bureaucracy always makes things run better


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## Fenway

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Because adding a new layer of bureaucracy always makes things run better



You look back at the history since the end of WWII and when the MTA took over from BERy in 1947 it was designed to protect transit in all of the suburbs adjacent to Boston with the exception of Winthrop.

The MTA got some things right most noticeably the extension of heavy rail to Wonderland and the light rail line to Riverside.

The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.







However, when the Boston & Maine RR started to float the idea to eliminate commuter service to the north suburbs the legislature reacted and the MBTA was created in 1964.

There were missed opportunities 40/50 years ago

The Blue Line should have been extended to Lynn
The Red Line should have been extended to Lexington but Arlington wanted no part of it.
The Orange Line should have been extended to RTE to the south and Wakefield to the North.

I don't see any easy fix


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## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> You look back at the history since the end of WWII and when the MTA took over from BERy in 1947 it was designed to protect transit in all of the suburbs adjacent to Boston with the exception of Winthrop.
> 
> The MTA got some things right most noticeably the extension of heavy rail to Wonderland and the light rail line to Riverside.
> 
> The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.
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> However, when the Boston & Maine RR started to float the idea to eliminate commuter service to the north suburbs the legislature reacted and the MBTA was created in 1964.
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> There were missed opportunities 40/50 years ago
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> The Blue Line should have been extended to Lynn
> The Red Line should have been extended to Lexington but Arlington wanted no part of it.
> The Orange Line should have been extended to RTE to the south and Wakefield to the North.
> 
> I don't see any easy fix


As an aside, I love the composition of that front page, with staggered photos and a prominent editorial cartoon. It's a layout editor's work of art. They don't make 'em like that anymore.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> The first hint of trouble came in 1959 when the Southeast Expressway opened and the New Haven RR closed down the Old Colony Division a week later. The state legislature yawned.


As early as 1945 the Coolidge Commission had proposed replacing the Old Colony service with an extension of what is today the Red Line. THis finally came about in the late 1960s. There were ambitious proposals to go as far as Brockton but eventually Braintree became the furthest south extension.

The same commission also proposed some of the other extensions mentioned above such as Blue Line to Lynn which did not happen for the usual reasons i.e. money. 

The Orange Line extension to the North was supposed to go all the way to Reading and the Hawker Siddley cars even had provision for adding pantographs as the extension would have used overhead a la the Blue Line. At the time (1960s - 1970s) commuter rail was considered on its way out and rapid transit extensions were the way to go. At some point this thinking became more practical and the realization that heavy rail was not a one size fits all solution to suburban commuting.


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## Tlcooper93

To me, Boston is a fascinating example of a catastrophe avoided.
The city was really set up to be a disaster due to Urban Renewal, and a slew of highways planned to replace rail lines, and to cut straight through the most vibrant neighbourhoods. Its a miracle so much of this was prevented. To think we almost lost the NEC/Orange Line, to be replaced by a planned i-695 is unthinkable today; but that was the reality back then.

The MBTA obviously is starved of cash, and it won't be improved until people start to recognize this. Otherwise, the ridership death spiral, exacerbated by covid, will continue.


AmtrakMaineiac said:


> The Orange Line extension to the North was supposed to go all the way to Reading and the Hawker Siddley cars even had provision for adding pantographs as the extension would have used overhead a la the Blue Line. At the time (1960s - 1970s) commuter rail was considered on its way out and rapid transit extensions were the way to go. At some point this thinking became more practical and the realization that heavy rail was not a one size fits all solution to suburban commuting.


That said, switching the purple line to an electrified regional rail approach with lighter EMU rolling stock could produce much the same results as rapid transit, with the added benefit of LD capabilities.


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## Fenway

Exclusive Video: Runaway Red Line Train Rolls Through Braintree Station


Video obtained by the NBC10 Investigators shows a runaway Red Line train rolling through an MBTA station in Braintree, Massachusetts, with no passengers on board and no operator at the helm. The train eventually came to a stop on its own after traveling roughly a half mile. According to the...




www.nbcboston.com





The Red Line was the crown jewel of MBTA heavy rail.

The Pullman-Standard cars need to be retired NOW - They have served the community well and actually have outlasted the orginal cars that ran from 1912 to 1963 which were replaced by the the Pullman-Standard Bluebirds that were retired in 1994 after 31 years.





Red Line Fleet _(226 cars + 242 on order)_​
*Series*​*Car type*​*Built By*​*Electrical*​*Year
Built*​*Year
Rebuilt*​*Carbody
Material*​*Width*​*Length*​*Seats*​*Cars
Active*​*Out of Service*​01500-01523​#1 Red Line​Pullman-Standard​Westinghouse​1969-70​1985-88​Aluminum​122”​69’06”​63​24​0​01600-01651​#1 Red Line​Pullman-Standard​Westinghouse​1969-70​1985-88​Aluminum​122”​69’06”​64​44​6​01700-01757​#2 Red Line​UTDC​Westinghouse​1987-89​2011-2016​Aluminum​120”​69’09”​62​56​2​01800-01885​#3 Red Line​Bombardier​General Electric​1993-94​​Stainless-Steel​120”​69’06”​50​82​2​1900-2151​#4 Red Line​CRRC​MELCO​2019-2024​​Stainless-Steel​120”​69’06”​43 A-car/ 50 B-car​10​242 on order​


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## Fenway

When it rains it pours 









New Orange Line, Red Line Trains Pulled From Service Again


For the second time in just over a month, the MBTA has taken its new Orange Line and Red Line trains off the tracks. This time, the cars were pulled due to a “battery failure,” the MBTA said in a statement Monday. The trains in question were last removed from service on May 19 over a braking...




www.nbcboston.com





Honestly, it seems as though the T is broken beyond repair with the exception of bus service. 

An elderly woman in my building told me today that the paratransit service 'The Ride' was supposed to take her this morning for 2 medical appointments and they never showed up and now she has to wait until September to see those doctors.


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## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> An elderly woman in my building told me today that the paratransit service 'The Ride' was supposed to take her this morning for 2 medical appointments and they never showed up and now she has to wait until September to see those doctors.


I've heard similar complaints in Orlando, NYC, & SF. It seems like paratransit doesn't work well anywhere. I think it's usually contracted out to a low bidder who doesn't pay enough to get reliable drivers.


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## Fenway

joelkfla said:


> I've heard similar complaints in Orlando, NYC, & SF. It seems like paratransit doesn't work well anywhere. I think it's usually contracted out to a low bidder who doesn't pay enough to get reliable drivers.


In Boston the core issue is scheduling


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## daybeers

Tlcooper93 said:


> The MBTA obviously is starved of cash, and it won't be improved until people start to recognize this.


It's also incredibly mismanaged.


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## Caesar La Rock

Fenway said:


> Exclusive Video: Runaway Red Line Train Rolls Through Braintree Station
> 
> 
> Video obtained by the NBC10 Investigators shows a runaway Red Line train rolling through an MBTA station in Braintree, Massachusetts, with no passengers on board and no operator at the helm. The train eventually came to a stop on its own after traveling roughly a half mile. According to the...
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> www.nbcboston.com
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> The Red Line was the crown jewel of MBTA heavy rail.
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> The Pullman-Standard cars need to be retired NOW - They have served the community well and actually have outlasted the orginal cars that ran from 1912 to 1963 which were replaced by the the Pullman-Standard Bluebirds that were retired in 1994 after 31 years.
> 
> 
> ​



Glad no one got hurt in the runaway and the train was brought to a stop. Seems like everyday, its something new with the MBTA. Derailments, new trains taken out of service, cancellations, etc. Nothing new in the world, but when it happens day after day, you have to ask what's going on? As for the CRRC cars to replace the fleet, gotta be patient.


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## Fenway

Caesar La Rock said:


> Glad no one got hurt in the runaway and the train was brought to a stop. Seems like everyday, its something new with the MBTA. Derailments, new trains taken out of service, cancellations, etc. Nothing new in the world, but when it happens day after day, you have to ask what's going on? *As for the CRRC cars to replace the fleet, gotta be patient.*



CRRC Springfield is also assembling cars for the LA Metro and I am not aware of any issues with that contract and as far as I know, the CRRC plant in Chicago has not seen any major issues with the CTA contract. 

CRRC delivers cars to Boston........  

The MBTA has dodged what could have been catastrophic accidents like this fiasco in 1975 - THREE trains colliding boggles the mind. 







There was a horrfic streetcar accident in 1916 that is all but forgotten 




There is a culture at the T that has been passed on from the BERy, MTA and now MBTA for over a century and nobody is accountable. 

A lifelong friend was an operator on the Red Line for 35 years and he lamented the elimination of block signals for ATC 1.0 circa 1980. He missed the visual green, yellow and red signals and vividly remembers ATC giving him a go at the blind curve between Kendall and Central but he held back and there was indeed a train at Central - he simply said I just knew.


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## west point

Maybe it is time for the FTA to initiate a direct reporting system to the FTA. That would enable various employees to report problems including safety without going thru MBTA management. This much like air plane ASARS.


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## joelkfla

Caesar La Rock said:


> Glad no one got hurt in the runaway and the train was brought to a stop. Seems like everyday, its something new with the MBTA. Derailments, new trains taken out of service, cancellations, etc. Nothing new in the world, but when it happens day after day, you have to ask what's going on? As for the CRRC cars to replace the fleet, gotta be patient.


The reporter says the train wasn't brought to a stop, it stopped on it's own. Probably reached a valley.

I'm thinking maybe the workers didn't bother to reattach the air line, or attached it but left the valve closed. Otherwise, wouldn't the brakes be applied when the hose separated?


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## jis

More MBTA issues that was referred to in an earlier post, now being reported by Trains Magazine:









MBTA pulls newest cars from service over battery issue - Trains


BOSTON — In the latest setback for its newest rapid-transit equipment, the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority has pulled its new Orange and Red Line cars from service after what officials called a “battery failure” on one of the cars. Meanwhile, the agency — hit last week by a series of...




www.trains.com


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## west point

Wonder if CRRC expected vendors to engage in good quality control? As well what of CRRC's quality control.


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## Fenway

and it continues 









‘It’s so frustrating’: Officials blast MBTA after escalator reversal is latest safety breakdown


BOSTON (WHDH) - A second escalator reversing at an Orange Line station has officials outraged over another safety concern at the MBTA, with legislators planning...




whdh.com


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## MARC Rider

Fenway said:


> and it continues
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> ‘It’s so frustrating’: Officials blast MBTA after escalator reversal is latest safety breakdown
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> BOSTON (WHDH) - A second escalator reversing at an Orange Line station has officials outraged over another safety concern at the MBTA, with legislators planning...
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> whdh.com


These "officials" who are blasting the MBTA include state legislators. It would be interesting to see these legislators' records regarding funding of transit vs. funding of highways.  I mean, the state legislature does have the power of the purse, though I suspect that only a minority of them represent Boston and its inner suburbs which are served by these MBTA lines. So maybe paying proper attention to funding transportation in Boston and its inner suburbs isn't the highest priority of the majority of the state legislature.


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## Tlcooper93

daybeers said:


> It's also incredibly mismanaged.


It’s very difficult to manage just about anything that is historically and chronically underfunded.

No one goes to their job every morning thinking “I’m planning on doing a terrible job.” Not that there aren’t things needing change, but I feel like this statement is the classic American issue:

Screaming “mismanagement,” therefore giving fuel to those who believe that anything mismanaged isn’t worth funding, further feeding the transit death spiral.


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## MARC Rider

MARC Rider said:


> These "officials" who are blasting the MBTA include state legislators. It would be interesting to see these legislators' records regarding funding of transit vs. funding of highways.


It would also be more helpful if journalists would take the effort to dig up these legislators' records regarding transit funding rather than taking the lazy way out and simply be a stenographer simply quoting the legislator.

I really hate it when the media use valuable airtime (or column inches) to simply record the bloviating of an elected official, thus letting these guys control the narrative. That's one reason I like listening to the BBC World Service, as they do that a lot less than American media outlets and are usually content to simply paraphrase the essence of what the politician said, and in a lot fewer words than the politician uses.

Unfortunately, the BBC World Service doesn't usually report on transit funding issues in American cities, but maybe the MBTA stuff is unique enough in that so many bad things are happening one right after the other that it might be newsworthy to an international audience.


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## Fenway

MARC Rider said:


> These "officials" who are blasting the MBTA include state legislators. It would be interesting to see these legislators' records regarding funding of transit vs. funding of highways.  I mean, the state legislature does have the power of the purse, though I suspect that only a minority of them represent Boston and its inner suburbs which are served by these MBTA lines. So maybe paying proper attention to funding transportation in Boston and its inner suburbs isn't the highest priority of the majority of the state legislature.



Current legislators are not to blame - this has evolved over decades. 

As per Section 25, Chapter 161B of the Massachusetts General Laws, regional transit authorities in Massachusetts are not permitted to directly operate their service, but must instead contract with other entities to operate the buses WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE MBTA. 

The legislature did not want to anger the Carmen's Union in Boston but they also made sure that no other RTA in Mass had that problem. 



One other historical note. From 1978 - 1996 the most powerful politician in Massachusetts was Senate President William Bulger and all hiring at the T went through him with the exception of bus and train operators which was done by a racial and gender-based weighted lottery but he found a workaround to keep control. Nobody messed with Senator Bulger as his brother was a ruthless gangster.

In the 70s when the aging PCC cars on the Green Line needed to be replaced the US Government insisted the MBTA and MUNI in San Francisco order replacement cars made by Boeing. 




It became obvious that the Boeing cars were a disaster and the T was impressed by UTDC cars from Canada which passengers loved but....




The T has done some things right this century starting with countdown displays in stations and providing accurate real-time data to third-party transit apps. Boston has done a good job in making subway stations ADA compliant - Boylston a major exception. 

The procurement of rolling stock has been an issue for decades and always to the low bidder which hasn't worked well in most cases.


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> It became obvious that the Boeing cars were a disaster and the T was impressed by UTDC cars from Canada which passengers loved but....


It did influence the procurement of the Type 7s from Kinki Sharyo which was one of the bright spots in MBTA procurement in the last few decades.
Unfortunately they followed that up with the Type 8's where they reverted to form.

Admittedly the heavy rail procurements have generally been good - the Hawker Siddley cars on the Blue and Orange lines and the Siemens Blue Line cars all seem to have worked out OK. I hear mixed things about the Red Line Bombardier 1800 cars as needing more maintenance than the older cars.


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## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> The T has done some things right this century starting with countdown displays in stations and providing accurate real-time data to third-party transit apps. Boston has done a good job in making subway stations ADA compliant - Boylston a major exception.


Isn't Boylston one of the oldest subway stations in the U.S. (if not the world), and located in a highly congested area with a lot of ancient infrastructure?


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## MARC Rider

joelkfla said:


> Isn't Boylston one of the oldest subway stations in the U.S. (if not the world), and located in a highly congested area with a lot of ancient infrastructure?


No, that's Park St., which is ADA compliant, although a bit of a maze to find the elevators that get you where you want to go. When I pass through, I feel like a rat in a psychology experiment.


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## Tlcooper93

joelkfla said:


> Isn't Boylston one of the oldest subway stations in the U.S. (if not the world), and located in a highly congested area with a lot of ancient infrastructure?


Park st is the oldest, but Boylston also fits your description. Any MBTA project at that station would be a massive undertaking.


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## Fenway

Can't blame the T for this 









‘Severely Deteriorated' Support Columns Impact Service on MBTA's Green, Orange Lines


The MBTA says the Green Line is being replaced by shuttle buses between Government Center and Lechmere and the Orange Line is suspended between North Station and Back Bay due to a “structural issue” with the Government Center garage on Thursday afternoon. The MBTA says service is expected to be...




www.nbcboston.com


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## MARC Rider

Fenway said:


> Can't blame the T for this
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> ‘Severely Deteriorated' Support Columns Impact Service on MBTA's Green, Orange Lines
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Oh great. In less than 2 weeks, I'm coming down from Maine on the Downeaster and spending the night near North Station, and then catching an Acela the next day at South Station. This ride involves either the Orange Line or the Green Line. I hope they get the tunnels stabilized by then, or it's Uber for me.


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## Fenway

MARC Rider said:


> Oh great. In less than 2 weeks, I'm coming down from Maine on the Downeaster and spending the night near North Station, and then catching an Acela the next day at South Station. This ride involves either the Orange Line or the Green Line. I hope they get the tunnels stabilized by then, or it's Uber for me.


Hopefully it will be addressed before your trip


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## Fenway

joelkfla said:


> Isn't Boylston one of the oldest subway stations in the U.S. (if not the world), and located in a highly congested area with a lot of ancient infrastructure?


Boylston opened the same day as Park Street with Haymarket, Scollay (Government Center), and Adams (closed 1963) opening a year later.









Boylston station - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Boylston has changed very little in 125 years, it is a true time warp. 



has


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## AmtrakMaineiac

It's strange that (according to the alerts I have received) they suspended the Green line between Park and Lechmere. Why they can't run from Union Sq. to North station? Maybe the arrangement of crossovers doesn't allow reversing trains coming from the North side. Amusingly the alert for the Orange Line (which is suspended between Back Bay and North Station) says to use the Green Line instead 

I suspect Boylston, being one of the lesser used downtown stations, is lower on the priority for ADA compliance than other stations.

The T is having a perfect storm right now between this tunnel problem and the withdrawal of the CRRC cars yet again due to battery problems.


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## Tlcooper93

MARC Rider said:


> Oh great. In less than 2 weeks, I'm coming down from Maine on the Downeaster and spending the night near North Station, and then catching an Acela the next day at South Station. This ride involves either the Orange Line or the Green Line. I hope they get the tunnels stabilized by then, or it's Uber for me.


Honestly, Uber is the better option to begin with if you ask me. It’s $12 for an Uber, which to me is well worth it compared to the Orange Line to Back Bay station, especially if you’re carrying stuff.


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## jis

Tlcooper93 said:


> Honestly, Uber is the better option to begin with if you ask me. It’s $12 for an Uber, which to me is well worth it compared to the Orange Line to Back Bay station, especially if you’re carrying stuff.


I agree. With significant baggage getting from North Station to South Station is definitely not a really viable option unless you are Popeye the Sailor Man on several cans of Spinach. Back Bay Station is just manageable as it is a straight shot on the Orange line, but yes, at my age I would opt for Uber.


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## Fenway

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I suspect Boylston, being one of the lesser used downtown stations, is lower on the priority for ADA compliance than other stations.


The last ridership numbers (2019) show Boylston with an average of 5,265-weekday entries into the system.









Average Weekday Gated Entries FY19


Ordered list of 63 gated station usage by average weekday gate entries. Averages are from FY 19. These numbers are not adjusted for non-interaction or times when gates were not functioning.



mbta-massdot.opendata.arcgis.com






Oak Grove6,637Broadway6,020Tufts Medical Center5,976Chinatown5,747Andrew5,721Lechmere5,697Massachusetts Avenue5,627Jackson Square5,284*Boylston**5,265*Aquarium5,130Fields Corner4,948Quincy Adams4,665Roxbury Crossing4,501Braintree4,473

Emerson College moved its dormitories to that neighborhood and it is also the closest station to MBTA HQs.

Boylston has never had even a modest renovation in 125 years.


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## MARC Rider

jis said:


> I agree. With significant baggage getting from North Station to South Station is definitely not a really viable option unless you are Popeye the Sailor Man on several cans of Spinach. Back Bay Station is just manageable as it is a straight shot on the Orange line, but yes, at my age I would opt for Uber.


First, I would never want to have to wait for a southbound NEC train at Back Bay. I'd rather be sitting in the Club Acela at South Station.

Second, when I did this last March, I rode from North Station to South Station using the Green Line and Red Line. I was pulling a roller bag and carrying a small backpack. It was really no problem, even for an aging geezer like myself. All the stations involved are ADA compliant, so I made use of the elevators provided. The Red Line, and even many of the cars on the Green Line, have level boarding. The only challenge is finding the correct elevator to use at Park St. to make the connection. As arriving the day before, I'll probably by a 24 hour day pass, so I'd like to be able to use the T to get to South Station for essentially free and thus save myself $12 on an Uber ride.


----------



## Fenway

MBTA Red Line Train Derails at Boston Train Yard


An out-of-service MBTA Red Line train derailed when it hit a metal grate at a train yard in Boston Thursday night, officials said. An agency spokesperson said it happened at Cabot yard on Dorchester Avenue around 8:45 p.m. The train was moving out of the carhouse at the yard when it struck the...




www.nbcboston.com





At some point you have to think they're doing it on purpose.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> The last ridership numbers (2019) show Boylston with an average of 5,265-weekday entries into the system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Average Weekday Gated Entries FY19
> 
> 
> Ordered list of 63 gated station usage by average weekday gate entries. Averages are from FY 19. These numbers are not adjusted for non-interaction or times when gates were not functioning.
> 
> 
> 
> mbta-massdot.opendata.arcgis.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oak Grove6,637Broadway6,020Tufts Medical Center5,976Chinatown5,747Andrew5,721Lechmere5,697Massachusetts Avenue5,627Jackson Square5,284*Boylston**5,265*Aquarium5,130Fields Corner4,948Quincy Adams4,665Roxbury Crossing4,501Braintree4,473
> 
> Emerson College moved its dormitories to that neighborhood and it is also the closest station to MBTA HQs.
> 
> Boylston has never had even a modest renovation in 125 years.


Interesting. Even more passengers than my old home station Fields Corner that I used when I lived in Dorchester and was always very busy with many bus connections. In that case I don't understand why Boylston is treated as a red headed stepchild by the T.


----------



## Tlcooper93

Fenway said:


> MBTA Red Line Train Derails at Boston Train Yard
> 
> 
> An out-of-service MBTA Red Line train derailed when it hit a metal grate at a train yard in Boston Thursday night, officials said. An agency spokesperson said it happened at Cabot yard on Dorchester Avenue around 8:45 p.m. The train was moving out of the carhouse at the yard when it struck the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcboston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At some point you have to think they're doing it on purpose.


What will be the endgame of all this trouble? A turning point or a breaking point?


----------



## Fenway

Fenway said:


> MBTA Red Line Train Derails at Boston Train Yard
> 
> 
> An out-of-service MBTA Red Line train derailed when it hit a metal grate at a train yard in Boston Thursday night, officials said. An agency spokesperson said it happened at Cabot yard on Dorchester Avenue around 8:45 p.m. The train was moving out of the carhouse at the yard when it struck the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcboston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At some point you have to think they're doing it on purpose.





AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Interesting. Even more passengers than my old home station Fields Corner that I used when I lived in Dorchester and was always very busy with many bus connections. In that case I don't understand why Boylston is treated as a red headed stepchild by the T.


I suspect the station being a National Historic Landmark complicates things 



https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/GetAsset/NHLS/66000788_text


----------



## MARC Rider

Fenway said:


> I suspect the station being a National Historic Landmark complicates things
> 
> 
> 
> https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/GetAsset/NHLS/66000788_text


How did Park St. escape that fate?


----------



## Fenway

MARC Rider said:


> How did Park St. escape that fate?


Park St was altered in 1912 when the current Red Line was built 

If my memory is correct Park Street got a double elevator in 1979 on Tremont across the street from the main headhouse. 

You could take the elevator from Tremont to fare collection and then have access to the Green Line towards Lechmere, access to the Orange Line walkway, or take a second elevator to the Red Line. 

Boylston never changed


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Late yesterday the tunnels under the GC garage were inspected and everything is ok so service on the Green and Orange lines restored through downtown.


----------



## Fenway

Hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Fenway




----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

As if things couldn't get any worse. This won't do much for public perception of the T. A train catches fire on the Mystic River Bridge and passengers have to be evacuated. One person panicked and jumped into the river and swam to shore.  

Fire on Orange Line train


----------



## daybeers

Seems the FTA oversight isn't making things any better.

These incidents are getting worse and worse and will result in fatalities if nothing is done.


----------



## Fenway




----------



## Fenway

At first, the T tried to downplay the situation 



This patron sums it up best


----------



## Fenway

This is ALL on Governor Charlie Baker and former Governor Deval Patrick.

EIGHT years ago Patrick decided buying new trains from China for the Orange Line was the way to go.....and Baker then added the Red Line to the order.

BUT that same Chinese company is providing new subway cars for Chicago and Los Angeles with no major issues so something the T is doing when they get the new cars looks like the problem.

Baker then gave the paratransit dispatch contract to Uber and the T after 18 months went back to the old system and had to pay millions to Uber to break the contract.



Under Baker they entered into a contract with Cubic for upgraded fare collection equipment that has already cost more than what Chicago and New York City paid Cubic COMBINED and now might be ready in 2024.



98 years ago Boston converted what is now the Blue Line from streetcar to heavy rail which required a third-rail and raised platforms to be installed and it required a suspension of service to do the conversion in the Boston Harbor tunnel connecting Bowdoin to Maverick Square. *IT WAS DONE in 50 1/2 HOURS.* How long would that take if done in 2022?






nycsubway.org: East Boston Tunnel News (1923-1928)







www.nycsubway.org





The T has been hampered that the 3 heavy rail lines have different specifications.

RED LINE: Cars are 69 feet long and 10 feet 3 inches wide; station height is 4 feet 1 inch from rails to the platform.

BLUE LINE: Cars are 48 feet long and 9 feet 3 inches wide; station height is 3 feet 5 ½ inches from rails to the platform.

ORANGE LINE: Cars are 65 feet long and 9 feet 3 inches wide; station height is3 feet 9 inches from rails to the platform.

GREEN LINE uses trolleys, not heavy rail subway cars.

The core issue is the MBTA was born in 1964 to save commuter rail but the focus was on the Boston & Maine lines into North Sation - no attempt was made to resuscitate the Old Colony Lines that the New Haven closed down in 1959 and was finally restored in 1997/2007 at a huge cost which in turn meant less money for the subway lines.

I have serious doubts the culture of the T can be changed.


----------



## Chris I

Fenway said:


> This is ALL on Governor Charlie Baker and former Governor Deval Patrick.
> 
> EIGHT years ago Patrick decided buying new trains from China for the Orange Line was the way to go.....and Baker then added the Red Line to the order.
> 
> BUT that same Chinese company is providing new subway cars for Chicago and Los Angeles with no major issues so something the T is doing when they get the new cars looks like the problem.
> 
> Baker then gave the paratransit dispatch contract to Uber and the T after 18 months went back to the old system and had to pay millions to Uber to break the contract.
> 
> 
> 
> Under Baker they entered into a contract with Cubic for upgraded fare collection equipment that has already cost more than what Chicago and New York City paid Cubic COMBINED and now might be ready in 2024.
> 
> 
> 
> 98 years ago Boston converted what is now the Blue Line from streetcar to heavy rail which required a third-rail and raised platforms to be installed and it required a suspension of service to do the conversion in the Boston Harbor tunnel connecting Bowdoin to Maverick Square. *IT WAS DONE in 50 1/2 HOURS.* How long would that take if done in 2022?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nycsubway.org: East Boston Tunnel News (1923-1928)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nycsubway.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The T has been hampered that the 3 heavy rail lines have different specifications.
> 
> RED LINE: Cars are 69 feet long and 10 feet 3 inches wide; station height is 4 feet 1 inch from rails to the platform.
> 
> BLUE LINE: Cars are 48 feet long and 9 feet 3 inches wide; station height is 3 feet 5 ½ inches from rails to the platform.
> 
> ORANGE LINE: Cars are 65 feet long and 9 feet 3 inches wide; station height is3 feet 9 inches from rails to the platform.
> 
> GREEN LINE uses trolleys, not heavy rail subway cars.
> 
> The core issue is the MBTA was born in 1964 to save commuter rail but the focus was on the Boston & Maine lines into North Sation - no attempt was made to resuscitate the Old Colony Lines that the New Haven closed down in 1959 and was finally restored in 1997/2007 at a huge cost which in turn meant less money for the subway lines.
> 
> I have serious doubts the culture of the T can be changed.



The blue line also switches from overhead catenary to 3rd rail at the airport station, before heading under the harbor (pronounced "hah-baa"). It's pretty cool to see when you get off the train, but add that to the list of complications.


----------



## Fenway

The Mayor of Boston is now open to a shutdown and rebuild starting with the Orange Line. 









Mayor Wu Calls for ‘Drastic Action' to Address MBTA Safety Issues


Boston Mayor Michelle Wu called for “drastic action” Monday to address safety issues with the MBTA, including a potential complete shutdown of the system until improvements can be made. During an appearance on WBUR’s “Radio Boston,” Wu was asked about a series of recent problems on the T, most...




www.nbcboston.com


----------



## Tlcooper93

Boston is now becoming the poster child of a system historically void of adequate funding.

Perhaps shutting down parts of the system for expanded periods of time will make people wake up to how crucial transit is.

I can’t imagine the nightmare traffic situation that will unfold with this drastic but increasingly necessary action.


----------



## Fenway

Tlcooper93 said:


> Boston is now becoming the poster child of a system historically void of adequate funding.
> 
> Perhaps shutting down parts of the system for expanded periods of time will make people wake up to how crucial transit is.
> 
> I can’t imagine the nightmare traffic situation that will unfold with this drastic but increasingly necessary action.











Wu calls for 'large-scale' safety upgrades to the T


Boston Mayor Michelle Wu joins us for our monthly "Mondays with the Mayor." Mayor Wu discusses everything from transportation, to white supremacy, to David Ortiz.




www.wbur.org





Shutting down the T would have been a hard sell but now most would accept it. 

A woman who was on the Orange Line last week posted this this morning 


_Transportation/mental health update: I am currently in an "Uber Green" on my way to work. I was curious about it since it was a cheaper option. It’s very bumpy and apparently has no air-conditioning. Still better than the T.






_


----------



## west point

Another incident on the Orange line IMO will shut down that line. As for the whole system???


----------



## Fenway

west point said:


> Another incident on the Orange line IMO will shut down that line. As for the whole system???


Red Line is right there...

One would think after last month it couldn't possibly happen again but 









This morning's massive Red Line delays caused by yet another train just rolling out of the Braintree yard


A two-car Red Line train came out of the Braintree yard when it wasn't supposed to around 5:30 a.m. and then didn't stop until it got about 800 feet north of the station, the MBTA reports. Read more.




www.universalhub.com


----------



## west point

Redline another possible bvrake failure? Brings up question. How are maintenance personnel assigned to various locations? At managements discression? Or a rigid union type assignment or even grandfarthered at each location?


----------



## Fenway

west point said:


> Redline another possible bvrake failure? Brings up question. How are maintenance personnel assigned to various locations? At managements discression? Or a rigid union type assignment or even grandfarthered at each location?



The entire culture is broken - Killing the MBTA and making it part of MassDOT would only make it worse.


----------



## daybeers

Fenway said:


> The Mayor of Boston is now open to a shutdown and rebuild starting with the Orange Line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mayor Wu Calls for ‘Drastic Action' to Address MBTA Safety Issues
> 
> 
> Boston Mayor Michelle Wu called for “drastic action” Monday to address safety issues with the MBTA, including a potential complete shutdown of the system until improvements can be made. During an appearance on WBUR’s “Radio Boston,” Wu was asked about a series of recent problems on the T, most...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcboston.com


Sounds like the completely ineffective "SafeTrack" and then "Back2Good" with WMATA.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Last time I was in Boston the blue line was shut down and I had to rush to the airport via green, red and silver, luckily made my flight. 

Didn't Boston get stuck with the LRV by Boeing (or was that SF that did)?


----------



## Tlcooper93

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Last time I was in Boston the blue line was shut down and I had to rush to the airport via green, red and silver, luckily made my flight.
> 
> Didn't Boston get stuck with the LRV by Boeing (or was that SF that did)?


That was indeed the Boston green line


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Tlcooper93 said:


> That was indeed the Boston green line


Thanks!


----------



## Fenway

Local media is just piling on now


----------



## Fenway

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Last time I was in Boston the blue line was shut down and I had to rush to the airport via green, red and silver, luckily made my flight.
> 
> Didn't Boston get stuck with the LRV by Boeing (or was that SF that did)?


----------



## MARC Rider

daybeers said:


> Sounds like the completely ineffective "SafeTrack" and then "Back2Good" with WMATA.


The suggestions about how to handle this situation seem to me to be roughly analogous to a sports team that's not doing very well, and everyone yelling to fire the coach, without acknowledging that the players, the team owner, the school administrators, whatever, also play a role in the poor performance. After all, one can fire the coach, but there's not guarantee that the new coach will be any better, or that the team will improve. Are there any examples where a totally dysfunctional operation has been turned around?


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

MARC Rider said:


> The suggestions about how to handle this situation seem to me to be roughly analogous to a sports team that's not doing very well, and everyone yelling to fire the coach, without acknowledging that the players, the team owner, the school administrators, whatever, also play a role in the poor performance. After all, one can fire the coach, but there's not guarantee that the new coach will be any better, or that the team will improve. Are there any examples where a totally dysfunctional operation has been turned around?


I'm sure there are examples (can't think of any right now) - though I generally agree with you, how would you replace a huge work force at the moment with the labor shortages going on at the moment?


----------



## Fenway

MBTA reschedules upcoming Orange Line work


BOSTON (WHDH) - Orange Line work previously set to begin July 29 and last for a month has been rescheduled, according to the MBTA. They...




whdh.com





No explanation given for the change


----------



## Trollopian

From a _Washington Post_ interview with Randy Clarke, the new head of regional transit authority WMATA. Yeah, safety is something we should be able to take for granted. But don't.

"Unlike his predecessor, Clarke said, the public will not hear him stressing safety as publicly as Wiedefeld did. The former general manager’s unofficial mantra and mission for Metro was to put 'safety first.' Clarke, *who served as the chief safety officer for Boston’s transit system*, said safety will be intrinsic."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/07/28/metro-wmata-rail-service/ (paywall but anyone can read a limited number of free articles)


----------



## Fenway

The FTA has seen enough


----------



## Fenway




----------



## joelkfla

What exactly is a "Safety Standdown"?

In the 1st clip, the pretty but dumb newsreader says the "Federal Trade Administration" (I suppose one FTA is as good as another) has "slammed" the MBTA, and then the reporter describes the training requirement but says the MBTA thinks it won't affect service.

In the 2nd clip, the reporter says the Red line will be shut down every evening for a while, but that seems to be not directly related to the FTA order.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Yowsa, that's harsh but pointed language.


----------



## PerRock

joelkfla said:


> What exactly is a "Safety Standdown"?



It's a standard thing whenever there is a safety incident in a facility that handles large things, like maintenance or manufacturing facilities... not just the rail industry. Essentially it's a mandatory meeting that all employees that would have any connection to the safety incident (including being allowed to just walk thru the area) must attend. They usually go over what the incident was, and what steps are being done to keep it from happening again; and can include additional training days/meetings if warranted.

Peter


----------



## Fenway

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Yowsa, that's harsh but pointed language.


As I pointed out in an earlier post Boston has dodged a major transit disaster since 1916 ( not counting commuter rail )






MBTA issues


https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/exclusive-video-runaway-red-line-train-rolls-through-braintree-station/2752294/?_osource=newltr_v2_station_Hdlines_WBTS The Red Line was the crown jewel of MBTA heavy rail. The Pullman-Standard cars need to be retired NOW - They have served the...




www.amtraktrains.com





My retired motorman friend worries the most about the Bombardier 1800 series cars that went into service in 1993-94 as they were computer enhanced using equipment from DEC (Digital) which no longer exists. The Pullman 1500-1600 cars from 1969-71 have served the system well but it's time. 

He believes the track between South Station and Broadway is ripe for a disaster because of speed. 

It's just frustrating to watch.


----------



## Tlcooper93

I’m surprised the FTA wasn’t harsher.
Also can’t really understand how this system, flush was so much cash, existing in a state flush with cash, has not released a broader plan to make things better. Doesn’t really seem like enough to me.

Seems like until the FTA stepped in, the MBTA was just content to let things slide time after time.


----------



## west point

Tlcooper93 said:


> Seems like until the FTA stepped in, the MBTA was just content to let things slide time after time.


Wonder if the hiding of these safety problems was that officials at MBTA were worried that if disclosed would have their heads on a platter? If I had been a high official there would have been a worry that the state legislature might have taken very harsh steps?

Now there will be Pols looking to score points with hearings and probably firings. May try to claw back any parachutes.


----------



## blueman271

MARC Rider said:


> The suggestions about how to handle this situation seem to me to be roughly analogous to a sports team that's not doing very well, and everyone yelling to fire the coach, without acknowledging that the players, the team owner, the school administrators, whatever, also play a role in the poor performance. After all, one can fire the coach, but there's not guarantee that the new coach will be any better, or that the team will improve. Are there any examples where a totally dysfunctional operation has been turned around?


Of course there are examples, teams don’t remain irrelevant forever. The Buffalo Bills and Cincinnati Bengals are 2 very recent examples. And the same thing can happen to public agencies when new leadership is brought in. I believe David Gunn has a history of leading successful turnarounds at numerous organizations, both city and federal.


----------



## Fenway

A new month but.....









Commuter Rail passengers escape broken-down train, scale fence


The MBTA says the train was stopped due to a mechanical issue, as passengers decided to escape on their own due to hot conditions inside.




www.wcvb.com


----------



## joelkfla

The T is looking like 3rd world rail.


----------



## Tlcooper93

One question is why now? (All of it boiled over rather suddenly and quickly) Did pandemic and all related issues break at the T? (Or draw that broke the camels back rather)?


----------



## Fenway

and today 









Red Line construction equipment derails, causing shuttle buses to replace service


QUINCY, MASS. (WHDH) - A piece of construction equipment derailed on the Red Line overnight, damaging its third rail and causing existing shuttle bus service...




whdh.com


----------



## west point

Fenway said:


> and today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Line construction equipment derails, causing shuttle buses to replace service
> 
> 
> QUINCY, MASS. (WHDH) - A piece of construction equipment derailed on the Red Line overnight, damaging its third rail and causing existing shuttle bus service...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whdh.com


Something certainly was not maintained properly. Less likely track. Maybe wheels out of guage. traveling too fast if so anothe r safety violation.?


----------



## MARC Rider

joelkfla said:


> The T is looking like 3rd world rail.


That's not being fair to third world rail, which is often better than here, because people actually rely on it for transportation.


----------



## Fenway

Official announcement expected tomorrow (Wednesday 8/3)









MBTA Expected to Shut Down Orange Line for 30 Days, Sources Say


UPDATE (Wednesday, Aug. 3): The shutdown was announced for 30 days from August to September. Get details from Gov. Baker’s announcement here. The MBTA will shut down the Orange Line for 30 days to work on long overdue maintenance, sources tell NBC10 Boston. The Boston Globe first reported that...




www.nbcboston.com















BREAKING: 30-day Orange Line shutdown coming as MBTA plans for overdue maintenance, per sources


MEDFORD, MASS. (WHDH) - A 30-day shutdown of the Orange Line is expected to be announced Wednesday, according to 7NEWS sources.Rail service would be replaced...




whdh.com


----------



## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> View attachment 29036
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official announcement expected tomorrow (Wednesday 8/3)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MBTA Expected to Shut Down Orange Line for 30 Days, Sources Say
> 
> 
> UPDATE (Wednesday, Aug. 3): The shutdown was announced for 30 days from August to September. Get details from Gov. Baker’s announcement here. The MBTA will shut down the Orange Line for 30 days to work on long overdue maintenance, sources tell NBC10 Boston. The Boston Globe first reported that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcboston.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKING: 30-day Orange Line shutdown coming as MBTA plans for overdue maintenance, per sources
> 
> 
> MEDFORD, MASS. (WHDH) - A 30-day shutdown of the Orange Line is expected to be announced Wednesday, according to 7NEWS sources.Rail service would be replaced...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whdh.com



Actually, this sounds like a good thing. No pain, no gain.


----------



## Fenway

joelkfla said:


> Actually, this sounds like a good thing. No pain, no gain.



It needs to be done and the same applies to the Red Line. 

The Haymarket-North line opened in 1975 and was flawed from Day 1 and has aged badly. - The SW Corridor opened in 1987 and was far better designed. The Washington St tunnel opened in 1908 and has held up well. 

I fear things will get worse in the future.


----------



## Fenway

If you listen carefully to the Governor he hints the Feds ordered the shutdown.


----------



## Fenway

MBTA to Shut Down New Green Line Extension for 4 Weeks, Opening Date for Medford Branch Delayed


The MBTA announced Friday that it will be shutting down the new Green Line Extension for four weeks and that the opening date for the Medford Branch has been delayed from late summer to November of 2022. The diversion in service is necessary to allow for continued work at the Government Center...




www.nbcboston.com


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Sheesh, Boston is really falling apart (granted, Chicago shut down our Green Line for a renovation project, but it wasn't nearly in such dire circumstances as Boston and it's mostly paralleled by other lines and was planned in advance).


----------



## John Santos

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Sheesh, Boston is really falling apart (granted, Chicago shut down our Green Line for a renovation project, but it wasn't nearly in such dire circumstances as Boston and it's mostly paralleled by other lines and was planned in advance).


Planning? What's "Planning"?


----------



## Bob Dylan

Fenway said:


> If you listen carefully to the Governor he hints the Feds ordered the shutdown.



One of the oldest Political ploys, Blame Washington!


----------



## Bob Dylan

John Santos said:


> Planning? What's "Planning"?


Failure to Plan is Planning to Fail!


----------



## west point

Speculation " Geen line postpone is so the persons scheduled to green line can transfer to the Orange line work?


----------



## Tlcooper93

Not rail related but….


----------



## Fenway

The MBTA releases the plan for when the Orange Line shuts down next week 

Click on image


----------



## Fenway

It never ends



About 300 Green Line passengers were forced to get off their trains and walk along the tracks because of a power problem during the evening commute Friday.

The MBTA says three trains got stuck in the tunnels between the Hynes and Kenmore stops in Back Bay by Fenway Park.

No injuries were reported.


----------



## Fenway

The local news media has yet to look at the Achilles heel which is North Station because the Green Line will be closed at the same time.

I don't envy people from Maine taking the Downeaster who most likely will be unaware that trying to get to either South Station or Back Bay to continue on Amtrak will be a gigantic headache. Haymarket being closed is another major chokepoint. The other unknown is Lyft and Uber surge pricing. 





This twitter video has gone viral and sums up the apprehension of the next month.


----------



## Tlcooper93

I know Anna Seda and those musicians.
They honestly had no idea it would blow up like this.

The next months in Boston are going to be a ****show. Probably the biggest transport disaster in the country atm.


----------



## JoshP

I didn't know about this until just moments ago since I was planning a 30 day travel in east coast and doing some filming of public transit for my youtube channel so now I think I'll have to avoid Boston for now. This is really shame. Maybe the T should learn how MTA done like weekend shutdown only and it works well, no problems.


----------



## Fenway

Tlcooper93 said:


> I know Anna Seda and those musicians.
> They honestly had no idea it would blow up like this.
> 
> The next months in Boston are going to be a ****show. Probably the biggest transport disaster in the country atm.



@Tlcooper93 

What boggles the mind is the core tunnels downtown are all over 100 years old and they are fine. 

The MTA did a decent job with extending the Blue Line to Revere and the Green Line to Riverside in the 50s. 

But in 1964 the MTA was morphed into the MBTA that was designed to save commuter rail. 

The MBTA cut corners on the Red Line extension to Quincy in 1971 and the replacement of the Charlestown Elevated in 1975 and that is the core of the issues today. The tunnel from Harvard to Alewife that was completed in 1985 has also aged badly. The replacement of the Washington Street elevated in 1987 has aged better.


----------



## Fenway

2 days to go and the T is changing the plan after strong pushback


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

It's weird how over the past few years several major cities have had to shut down their systems, at least in part/some lines, because the deferred maintenance or workforce was so bad that it impacted safety.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Metra Electric Rider said:


> It's weird how over the past few years several major cities have had to shut down their systems, at least in part/some lines, because the deferred maintenance or workforce was so bad that it impacted safety.


Hmm, sounds familiar. And here I thought only Amtrak had that issue.


----------



## MARC Rider

AmtrakBlue said:


> Hmm, sounds familiar. And here I thought only Amtrak had that issue.


I wonder if and/or when this problem will be hitting the airlines, trucking, and freight rail industry.


----------



## daybeers

MARC Rider said:


> I wonder if and/or when this problem will be hitting the airlines, trucking, and freight rail industry.


Where are you getting the idea this isn't already happening?



Metra Electric Rider said:


> It's weird how over the past few years several major cities have had to shut down their systems, at least in part/some lines, because the deferred maintenance or workforce was so bad that it impacted safety.


Not weird IMO considering the way we fund and manage our infrastructure.


----------



## Fenway

Metra Electric Rider said:


> It's weird how over the past few years several major cities have had to shut down their systems, at least in part/some lines, because the deferred maintenance or workforce was so bad that it impacted safety.



In Boston, you can trace everything back to the 'Big Dig' 









Big Dig - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





The T in 1985 was in decent shape except for the Green Line which was hampered by the Boeing LRV debacle.











What Led to MBTA's Decline? Weld Defends Against Criticism of Administration


It’s hard to imagine the MBTA of the 1980s as described by Fred Salvucci. “The service was really customer-oriented,” said Salvucci, who served as secretary of transportation in both Dukakis administrations. “The infrastructure was in very good shape because we put a lot of money into...




www.nbcboston.com





Meanwhile, the T was restoring the Old Colony commuter rail south of Boston that the New Haven RR killed in 1959, which became another money pit. 

30 years ago I used to commute into Boston with a Zone 6 monthly pass that cost $112 - today it costs $340 but using the Federal Reserve inflation tracker it should cost $235. 

The T and its predecessors have been inconsistent in updating the rolling stock on the heavy rail lines 

Orange Line - The 1100s were retired after only 24 years in 1981. Red Line - The 1400s were retired after 31 years. In both cases, the MTA went with a Pullman-Standard concept that a PCC design could work with heavy rail. 

The Orange Line should have been included with the Blue Line contract with Siemens in 2008 but..................

The Red Line needs to see the 1500s and 1600s be condemned now. They have served the community well but they are 52 years old.


----------



## Tlcooper93




----------



## Tlcooper93

Redacted


----------



## joelkfla

This page has links to PDFs of the full 90-page report and special directives:





Safety Management Inspection: Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority and the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities | FTA


FTA released its Safety Management Inspection report of the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority and the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities after a 2 1/2-month inspection that began in mi




www.transit.dot.gov


----------



## Fenway

The report did not mince words thankfully



The person who is almost certain to be the next Governor has already pledged she will clean house at the T in her first day of office.


----------



## Tlcooper93

Fenway said:


> The report did not mince words thankfully
> 
> 
> 
> The person who is almost certain to be the next Governor has already pledged she will clean house at the T in her first day of office.



I won’t hold my breath.


----------



## MARC Rider

joelkfla said:


> This page has links to PDFs of the full 90-page report and special directives:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Safety Management Inspection: Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority and the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities | FTA
> 
> 
> FTA released its Safety Management Inspection report of the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority and the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities after a 2 1/2-month inspection that began in mi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.transit.dot.gov


From a quick read of the Safety Management Inspection report, it seems the main problem is that they don't have enough workers to handle both the regular operations and maintenance work and all the new capital projects they're doing. They have the money budgeted for the additional workers, but they're having trouble hiring them. It seems like there are some structural reasons for the shortage, such as a too-large contingent of their workforce being at or near retirement age. There may also be some cultural or management issues with the way they handle new hires, such as a preference to hire from within, and a system where new workers are essentially part-time trainees for two years or so working at a totally inadequate rate of pay for a city as expensive as Boston. This might tend to discourage people from applying for the available jobs.

I would think that a lot of the ultimate cause of the problem is political -- The report says that MBTA appropriations were cut a few years ago, which I suspect means that hiring was curtailed, and staffing levels declined due to attrition. Then they've all of a sudden got a big influx of cash which includes the capital projects, but they can't spend it effectively fast enough. The politicians who appropriate the money like to see the capital projects, heck, they like to come to the opening ceremonies and take credit for the shiny new toy, but regular operations and needed maintenance aren't as glamorous. And, of course, given then diverse interests of people across the state, even a small one like Massachusetts, the politics of spending priorities can change from year to year, which might explain why MBTA was starved of cash one year, and then dumped on with more than they could spend the next.


----------



## Fenway

The T says Orange Line work is 50% done 



and then announced they have approved the purchase of 102 new Green Line 'supercars' to be made by CAF USA Inc.






https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2022-08/RFP%20No%20367F-19%20Type%2010%20Supercar%20Update%20and%20Procurement%20AwardNP%20%28002%29.pdf


----------



## PaTrainFan

Fenway said:


> and then announced they have approved the purchase of 102 new Green Line 'supercars' to be made by CAF USA Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2022-08/RFP%20No%20367F-19%20Type%2010%20Supercar%20Update%20and%20Procurement%20AwardNP%20%28002%29.pdf



My goodness those are ugly.


----------



## Trollopian

PaTrainFan said:


> My goodness those are ugly.



Am I the only one who thought of the Very Hungry Caterpillar?


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

I have heard mixed reviews of the CAF built Type 9s I hope these Type 10s will be better.


----------



## Fenway

The Orange Line WILL reopen tomorrow (9/19)


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Trollopian said:


> Am I the only one who thought of the Very Hungry Caterpillar?


Hahahaha, I just learned about Codzilla - maybe there could be cod themed LRT vehicles?


----------



## Fenway

Tuesday's evening rush hour didn't go well. 

A new Orange Line train was pulled out of service Tuesday night, just one day after the entire line reopened after a 30-day shutdown.


----------



## Tlcooper93

Usually, public complaints are best ignored as they don’t really convey truth because they are often too tainted with politics, personal feelings and other like things.

But it seems the MBTA is having real trouble making good on promises and actually running decent service.


----------



## Fenway

Tlcooper93 said:


> Usually, public complaints are best ignored as they don’t really convey truth because they are often too tainted with politics, personal feelings and other like things.
> 
> But it seems the MBTA is having real trouble making good on promises and actually running decent service.



It seems obvious they have effectively retired the Hawker Siddeley cars built between 1979-1981 and are just using the 74 CRRC cars they currently have available and they are blaming longer headway times on the dispatcher shortage. 

My hunch is the feds told them the cars numbered 01200 – 01319 were done. 

The CBS Boston website offers more info than the video 









The Orange Line Shutdown: Was it worth it? Riders say commute is no faster


Two weeks after the reopening of the Orange Line, reviews are mixed.




www.cbsnews.com





Everybody knows the new Governor is going to clean house at the MBTA on January 1st - She appears to be more transit-friendly as she has done photo ops at transit stations in South Attleboro, Springfield, and Lynn in the past month but can't really do anything until formally elected in November which appears to be a certainty.


----------



## GDRRiley

the car issues they have having are 100% on CRRC, LA metro canceled their order from then after a few months back the confirmed 0 options.


----------



## Fenway

GDRRiley said:


> the car issues they have having are 100% on CRRC, LA metro canceled their order from then after a few months back the confirmed 0 options.





GDRRiley said:


> the car issues they have having are 100% on CRRC, LA metro canceled their order from then after a few months back the confirmed 0 options.


I can't find any link that the order was canceled 









LACMTA HR4000 Heavy Rail Vehicle Project - CRRC


In December 2016, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s (Metro) awarded a contract to CRRC MA to design and manufacture 64 new subway cars for the Red and Purple Lines with a consideration for an additional 218 subway cars totaling $647m. CRRC had the overall best value...




www.crrcma.com





The MBTA's rolling stock is to be kind fragile. 

The Red Line in particular has been neglected over decades which defies logic given the political clout the line should have had in South Boston, Dorchester and Cambridge. 





http://roster.transithistory.org/


Orange Line Fleet (174 cars + 76 on order)​
*Series*​*Car type*​*Built By*​*Electrical*​*Year Built*​*Width*​*Length*​*Seats*​*Cars Active*​*Cars Out of Service*​01200-01319​#12 Main Line​Hawker-Siddeley​General Electric​1979-81111”​65’​58​66​32​1400-1551​#14 Orange​CRRC​MELCO​2018-2023111”​65’​44 A-car/ 50 B-car​74​2+76 additional on order​


Red Line Fleet _(226 cars + 242 on order)_​
*Series*​*Car type*​*Built By*​*Electrical*​*Year
Built*​*Year
Rebuilt*​*Carbody
Material*​*Width*​*Length*​*Seats*​*Cars
Active*​*Out of Service*​01500-01523​#1 Red Line​Pullman-Standard​Westinghouse​1969-70​1985-88​Aluminum​122”​69’06”​63​24​0​01600-01651​#1 Red Line​Pullman-Standard​Westinghouse​1969-70​1985-88​Aluminum​122”​69’06”​64​44​6​01700-01757​#2 Red Line​UTDC​Westinghouse​1987-89​2011-2016​Aluminum​120”​69’09”​62​56​2​01800-01885​#3 Red Line​Bombardier​General Electric​1993-94​​Stainless-Steel​120”​69’06”​50​82​2​1900-2151​#4 Red Line​CRRC​MELCO​2019-2024​​Stainless-Steel​120”​69’06”​43 A-car/ 50 B-car​10​242 on order​

Blue Line Fleet _(94 cars)_​
*Series*​*Car type*​*Built By*​*Electrical*​*Year Built*​*Width*​*Length*​*Seats*​*Cars Active*​*Cars Out of Service*​0700-0793​#5 East Boston​Siemens​Siemens​2007-2009111”​48’06”​35​94​0​

Green Line (Riverside, Reservoir, and Inner Belt Carhouses) and Mattapan-Ashmont Line (Mattapan Yard)​Green Line Fleet (221 Green Line cars + 10 cars for Mattapan-Ashmont)​
*Series*​*Car type*​*Built By*​*Electrical*​*Year Built*​*Width*​*Length*​*Seats*​*Cars Active*​*Out of
Service*​3072-3096,
3222-3271​PCC (“Wartime” class)​Pullman-Standard​Westinghouse​1945-46 (rebuilt 1978-83 and again 1999-2005)100”​46’​41​4​4​3234, 3265​PCC
(“Wartime” class)​Pullman-Standard​Brookville Equipment​1945-1946 (rebuilt 2021-2024)​100’​46’​41​1​1​3600-3699​Type 7​Kinki-Sharyo​Westinghouse​3600-3649: 1986-87
3650-3699:1987-88
Overhauled Alstom 2015-2019​104”​72’​46​82​4​3700-3719​Type 7​Kinki-Sharyo​Adtranz​1997
Overhauled Alstom 2018-2019​104”​72’​46​14​3​3800-3894​Type 8​Breda​Adtranz/Bombardier​1999-2007​104”​74’​44​81​13​3900-3923​Type 9​CAF​MELCO​2018-2020​104”​74”​44​24​0​


----------



## Fenway

On Friday, October 14th current T management was grilled by 2 US senators 



These managers all know the next Governor will fire them. 

I wonder why the T didn't extend the shutdown for another 2 weeks when it became apparent more work needed to be done. 



The Red Line needs an overhaul between Alewife and Harvard and JFK/Umass to Braintree. The core line from Harvard to Andrew seems fine as does the original extension to Ashmont. 

The Orange Line 'Haymarket North' line was built on the cheap back in the 70s and we are paying for it today.


----------



## Tlcooper93

Fenway said:


> On Friday, October 14th current T management was grilled by 2 US senators
> 
> 
> 
> These managers all know the next Governor will fire them.
> 
> I wonder why the T didn't extend the shutdown for another 2 weeks when it became apparent more work needed to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> The Red Line needs an overhaul between Alewife and Harvard and JFK/Umass to Braintree. The core line from Harvard to Andrew seems fine as does the original extension to Ashmont.
> 
> The Orange Line 'Haymarket North' line was built on the cheap back in the 70s and we are paying for it today.



You mention the next governor cleaning house at the T a lot. Your faith in the next governor and in her ability to “fix” the T, in my opinion, is misplaced. I think the T’s problems go beyond political leadership and management. That said, I do hope I’m wrong , and that we do get meaningful change.

Secondly, everyone always mentions the ride between Alewife and Harvard being in need of overhaul. What about it needs to change? Thats one of the sections of the Red Line I ride regularly as I live a short walk from Alewife. It always seems fast and reliable to me, but of course, I do hear this a lot.


----------



## Fenway

Tlcooper93 said:


> You mention the next governor cleaning house at the T a lot. Your faith in the next governor and in her ability to “fix” the T, in my opinion, is misplaced. I think the T’s problems go beyond political leadership and management. That said, I do hope I’m wrong , and that we do get meaningful change.
> 
> Secondly, everyone always mentions the ride between Alewife and Harvard being in need of overhaul. What about it needs to change? Thats one of the sections of the Red Line I ride regularly as I live a short walk from Alewife. It always seems fast and reliable to me, but of course, I do hear this a lot.


I don't think my faith in Maura Healy is misplaced as she lives in the city of Boston. 

Harvard/Alewife after 40 years has seen a lot of water damage, by comparison, Harvard/Kendall built 110 years ago is dry as a bone.

Media is finally looking hard at CRRC MA - What nobody in Boston media has been able to pin down is how CRRC MA is doing with the LA Metro contract. 









More delays for new Orange and Red line cars - CommonWealth Magazine


STATE HOUSE NEWS SERVICE THE OUTLOOK FOR the already-delayed transition to entirely new Orange and Red line fleets continues to grow worse. After previously delaying the project’s targeted end date by at least a year, Chinese firm CRRC now expects it will need several more months to finish...




commonwealthmagazine.org





CRRC IL seems to be producing cars to the CTA's satisfaction.


----------



## Rambling Robert

The female T EMPLOYEE WAS RUDE and grabbed my phone from me because the QR code didn’t work at the new fare validation gates at North Station. She was one of very few gate attendants. After all they can’t lose money / or more money on another T debacle- but I think it’s another loss.

She could see the QR. and that I was on the DownEaster. She did not over ride the gate and I asked for my hone back. After about a minute I got the QR to work.

Imagine if the gate attendant had dropped and cracked my iPhone screen. Not a fun way to start a nine segment trip.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Tlcooper93 said:


> You mention the next governor cleaning house at the T a lot. Your faith in the next governor and in her ability to “fix” the T, in my opinion, is misplaced. I think the T’s problems go beyond political leadership and management. That said, I do hope I’m wrong , and that we do get meaningful change.


Changing the management is like appointing a new captain for the Titanic to prevent the ship from sinking. The underlying problem is the fact that the state will not fund the T adequately and saddled it with the Big Dig debt. Nothing will be resolved until this is addressed


----------



## Fenway

I have been told by friends at the T that since the reopening of the Orange Line they have been told they can not run Hawker-Siddeley cars in revenue service unless it is absolutely necessary and they are using the 74 available CRRC cars. They are still waiting for 78 cars. 

The Red Line needs to retire the 68 Pullman-Standard cars that are 50 years old but can't as they only have 10 CRRC cars available. 

The scuttlebutt is the next Governor has decided on making Rick Leary currently running the TTC in Toronto to become the next transit czar in Massachusetts.


----------



## UserNameRequired

Rambling Robert said:


> The female T EMPLOYEE WAS RUDE and grabbed my phone from me because the QR code didn’t work at the new fare validation gates at North Station. She was one of very few gate attendants. After all they can’t lose money / or more money on another T debacle- but I think it’s another loss.
> 
> She could see the QR. and that I was on the DownEaster. She did not over ride the gate and I asked for my hone back. After about a minute I got the QR to work.
> 
> Imagine if the gate attendant had dropped and cracked my iPhone screen. Not a fun way to start a nine segment trip.


Do you use dark mode? I have had dark mode change colors enough that QR codes had trouble getting read from the screen (for other purpose, not MBTA related).


----------



## GDRRiley

Fenway said:


> Media is finally looking hard at CRRC MA - What nobody in Boston media has been able to pin down is how CRRC MA is doing with the LA Metro contract.


cars are extremely late and LA metro isn't happy. so far all additional orders have been canceled. whats not cleared based on some recent language is if LA metro outright canceled them all.
That would leave LA metro extremely short cars and the quickest supplier would be Hitachi as they already are making compatible cars for Miami and Baltimore


----------



## Tlcooper93

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Changing the management is like appointing a new captain for the Titanic to prevent the ship from sinking. The underlying problem is the fact that the state will not fund the T adequately and saddled it with the Big Dig debt. Nothing will be resolved until this is addressed


Summed up very nicely.

Does the governor have the power to unburden the T of Big Dig debt? If so, then I will be more of board with this "new governor, new T" business.


Fenway said:


> The scuttlebutt is the next Governor has decided on making Rick Leary currently running the TTC in Toronto to become the next transit czar in Massachusetts.





Fenway said:


> I don't think my faith in Maura Healy is misplaced as she lives in the city of Boston.


Someone living in Boston is the only prerequisite for ability to fix the T? Sorry, you're going to have to explain that one.

Didn't Rick Leary get naturalized as a canadian citizen in 2019, and his position was made permanent in 2018?
That said, he is promising to me. Given he's lived in Boston extensively, and he did especially good work for Toronto, I am more sold by that than any of this Maura Healy stuff.


----------



## Fenway

The MBTA's GM announced his resignation today


----------



## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> The MBTA's GM announced his resignation today


Does "mixed emotions" mean "Thank G I'm outta here!"?


----------



## Brian Battuello

Interesting timing. Resigning now gives Gov Baker a chance to pick the new leader before leaving office. I don't know if Baker really cares, or if he will let the new administration do the search. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't already have someone in mind. 

I just hope he doesn't pull an Udoka and turn up as the head of the MTA. Google Udoka if you don't keep up on east coast basketball news...


----------



## Fenway

Boston's Channel 5 sent a reporter to Philadelphia to see if SEPTA had similar issues. 









Can MBTA learn lessons from Philadelphia's transit system?


It's a sports-crazed city in the Northeast, home to universities and rich with history. And they have really old transit systems.




www.wcvb.com





_5 Investigates visited the city of Brotherly Love for two days last month to see how SEPTA runs its system. The similarities are clear:
_

_SEPTA is the sixth-largest transit system in the country, similar to the T, which is the 5th largest_
_SEPTA's infrastructure dates to the early 1900s; the T dates back to 1897_


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> Boston's Channel 5 sent a reporter to Philadelphia to see if SEPTA had similar issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can MBTA learn lessons from Philadelphia's transit system?
> 
> 
> It's a sports-crazed city in the Northeast, home to universities and rich with history. And they have really old transit systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wcvb.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _5 Investigates visited the city of Brotherly Love for two days last month to see how SEPTA runs its system. The similarities are clear:_
> 
> 
> _SEPTA is the sixth-largest transit system in the country, similar to the T, which is the 5th largest_
> _SEPTA's infrastructure dates to the early 1900s; the T dates back to 1897_


Having lived and used transit in both cities, I think the report glossed over some issues with SEPTA and made it seem better than it really is. Of course it is true SEPTA has not had some of the glaring problems that MBTA has had recently such as Orange Line trains catching fire, etc. 

However I think the systems are different in a number of ways which makes it a bit more of an apples to oranges comparison. 

For one thing Philadelphia is a much bigger city than Boston yet the rapid transit portion of the system (Broad St Subway, Market Frankford El, subway surface trolley tunnel, and PATCO line) is if anything smaller than Boston's equivalent. One might even question whether the subway surface trolleys can be called rapid transit since the surface portions are conventional streetcars running in the street with traffic whereas the majority of Boston's Green Line is separated from traffic (except the extreme end of the E line). Another factor somewhat glossed over in the report was the perception of crime on the SEPTA transit system. I know when I lived there a lot of people would not even go on the Broad St. line even in the daytime. I never saw this kind of attitude in Boston.

On the other hand SEPTA has an extensive electrified Regional Rail system much more extensive and with better service frequency than Boston's commuter rail, which seems more oriented towards bringing commuters into the city. SEPTA also has the tunnel so that trips can be made suburb to suburb from the western to the Northern suburbs which is more difficult in Boston due to the lack of the North South Rail Link.

I would summarize by saying for a suburban commuter SEPTA is superior but for someone living in the city Boston probably has the better system even with its well publicized problems.


----------



## Fenway

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Having lived and used transit in both cities, I think the report glossed over some issues with SEPTA and made it seem better than it really is. Of course it is true SEPTA has not had some of the glaring problems that MBTA has had recently such as Orange Line trains catching fire, etc.
> 
> However I think the systems are different in a number of ways which makes it a bit more of an apples to oranges comparison.
> 
> For one thing Philadelphia is a much bigger city than Boston yet the rapid transit portion of the system (Broad St Subway, Market Frankford El, subway surface trolley tunnel, and PATCO line) is if anything smaller than Boston's equivalent. One might even question whether the subway surface trolleys can be called rapid transit since the surface portions are conventional streetcars running in the street with traffic whereas the majority of Boston's Green Line is separated from traffic (except the extreme end of the E line). Another factor somewhat glossed over in the report was the perception of crime on the SEPTA transit system. I know when I lived there a lot of people would not even go on the Broad St. line even in the daytime. I never saw this kind of attitude in Boston.
> 
> On the other hand SEPTA has an extensive electrified Regional Rail system much more extensive and with better service frequency than Boston's commuter rail, which seems more oriented towards bringing commuters into the city. SEPTA also has the tunnel so that trips can be made suburb to suburb from the western to the Northern suburbs which is more difficult in Boston due to the lack of the North South Rail Link.
> 
> I would summarize by saying for a suburban commuter SEPTA is superior but for someone living in the city Boston probably has the better system even with its well publicized problems.



@AmtrakMaineiac 

That is a fair assessment as the Center City Tunnel which while being constructed was considered a boondoggle 40 years ago transformed downtown, especially Lower Market St. 

The BSL is what it is..... and nobody has an answer for the Broad–Ridge Spur.


----------



## Fenway

A Chicago friend is visiting Boston this weekend and marveled how efficiently the T was going from Logan to her hotel near Haymarket. Her minor complaint was State Street station could use a rehab. 

The only thing she doesn't like is the Green Line cars with the stairs

The Achilles heel of the T is the commuter rail 

50+ years later the culture of the old B&M, Boston & Albany division, and the New Haven still exists. The T commuter rail needs a 21st Century answer to the Budd Rail Diesel Car.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> 50+ years later the culture of the old B&M, Boston & Albany division, and the New Haven still exists. The T commuter rail needs a 21st Century answer to the Budd Rail Diesel Car.


Or electrification and EMU's like Philly's SEPTA Regional Rail.


----------



## Tlcooper93

Fenway said:


> A Chicago friend is visiting Boston this weekend and marveled how efficiently the T was going from Logan to her hotel near Haymarket. Her minor complaint was State Street station could use a rehab.
> 
> The only thing she doesn't like is the Green Line cars with the stairs
> 
> The Achilles heel of the T is the commuter rail
> 
> 50+ years later the culture of the old B&M, Boston & Albany division, and the New Haven still exists. The T commuter rail needs a 21st Century answer to the Budd Rail Diesel Car.


Completely agree.
Many of my European musician friends find themselves in Boston from time to time. And my wife is from Hong Kong.
While my wife is privy (through me) to many of the woes of American public transit, they all agree that in general, the purple line is by far the most lacking part of the MBTA. When the Orange, Red, and Blue lines work (which in pre-pandemic times, they did most of the time), they are excellent. They provide very fast, frequent and crucial services to Boston. The Green Line a little less so, but also very convenient and crucial when working well.

The purple line, IMO, needs to resemble the Red line a little more. It needs electrification, and preferably EMU's (though DMU's could suffice in the mean time). The station stops for many of the lines are not very far apart, and if service were every 15 minutes, it would be a game changer, and traffic would be significantly reduced in and around the Boston area. The lines with station stops further apart (Providence, Haverhill, Lowell, etc.) could retain their coaches, and have normal single power unit trains. Again, preferably electric.

One of my gripes with the Fitchburg Line (and I'm sure this applies to other lines) is that the ROW is horrendously under-utilized. There could easily be more frequent service for the stations inside R-128, utilizing DMU's now, and then have the normal hourly service covering the further flung suburbs beyond with normal current fleet trains.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

Tlcooper93 said:


> One of my gripes with the Fitchburg Line (and I'm sure this applies to other lines) is that the ROW is horrendously under-utilized. There could easily be more frequent service for the stations inside R-128, utilizing DMU's now, and then have the normal hourly service covering the further flung suburbs beyond with normal current fleet trains.


Completely agree. Frequent service inside of rte 128 would be a game changer. Fitchburg line as far as Waltham, the entire Fairmount line ( one could make a case for making this a branch of the Red Line if the central subway could handle the frequency), Worcester line as far as the Newton's,and so on, using DMUs ot electrifying those portions.


----------



## Fenway

The T is blameless on this one 

Maserati vs Green Line trolley


----------



## dwebarts

Fenway said:


> Maserati vs Green Line trolley.


Money is wasted on/by the stupid.


----------



## Bostontoallpoints

Lower ridership is costing the MBTA: Fare revenue down 48% from 2019


Ridership continues to lag far behind pre-pandemic levels, a trend that left the MBTA with a $28 million loss in projected fare revenue for the first quarter of its fiscal year 2023 budget.




www.bostonherald.com





Ridership continues to lag far behind pre-pandemic levels, a trend that left the MBTA with a $28 million loss in projected fare revenue for the first quarter of its fiscal year 2023 budget.

The lower-than-budgeted fare revenue of $89.3 million represents a 24% decrease from the $117.4 million that the T expected to take in for the first three months of this fiscal year, Chief Financial Officer Mary Ann O’Hara said Thursday.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

They are supposed to be opening the Green Line extension to Medford in a few weeks which should help with ridership numbers.


----------



## Fenway

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> They are supposed to be opening the Green Line extension to Medford in a few weeks which should help with ridership numbers.


Yes and No 

Most of the Medford Branch GLX riders will be former bus riders to Lechmere. The bigger issue is workers returning to downtown and Boston is far alone in that. 

All the major commuter rails in the US and in other countries will have to reinvent themselves which will not come easy given the culture.


----------



## Fenway

The T has decided to retire the 'Voice of the T' in favor of a new voice-to-text system.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

No sound on the video for some reason


----------



## jis

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> No sound on the video for some reason


I can hear sound. Must be some local problem with your setup.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

jis said:


> i Can hear sound. Must be some local problem with your setup.


Strange because I get sound on other videos, such as the one on the GLX opening. 
I even tried copying the URL to another browser tab and it still won't work.


----------



## joelkfla

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Strange because I get sound on other videos, such as the one on the GLX opening.
> I even tried copying the URL to another browser tab and it still won't work.


Did you try clicking "Watch on YouTube"? You might also try clicking the settings icon and changing the resolution; for some reason it defaulted to 460p for me, even though the video is recorded at 1080p.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

joelkfla said:


> Did you try clicking "Watch on YouTube"? You might also try clicking the settings icon and changing the resolution; for some reason it defaulted to 460p for me, even though the video is recorded at 1080p.


Tried all that. No joy.


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## Fenway

The Boston Sunday Globe today just hammers the T on why the 1969 Pullman-Standard Silverbirds are still in service. 

The story is behind the Globe's paywall 









Robinson Lalin was killed by a faulty Red Line car. It should have been off the tracks decades ago. - The Boston Globe


Experts warned that the MBTA’s oldest cars were increasingly unsafe — just one mechanical failure away from tragedy.




www.bostonglobe.com





This much I can share under fair use guidelines



*The Red Line “Silverbird” cars got a midlife rebuild in 1985. The project ran over six months late. The cars in the South Boston warehouse (pictured) were fitted with new parts in order for them to last another 10 years.*

Nothing in the story is shocking to us that follows the T except they really knew and didn't care. They had to buy new cars in 1993 to replace the 1963 vintage Pullman-Standard 'Bluebirds' which were nothing more than 1950s PCC cars modified for heavy rail and were in rough shape after 20 years. 

The Globe story also has a graphic saying the oldest cars running in North America are on the PATCO line connecting Philadelphia and New Jersey. 













It boggles the mind that the MBTA never learns from past mistakes.


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## joelkfla

Fenway said:


> The Boston Sunday Globe today just hammers the T on why the 1969 Pullman-Standard Silverbirds are still in service.
> 
> The story is behind the Globe's paywall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robinson Lalin was killed by a faulty Red Line car. It should have been off the tracks decades ago. - The Boston Globe
> 
> 
> Experts warned that the MBTA’s oldest cars were increasingly unsafe — just one mechanical failure away from tragedy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bostonglobe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This much I can share under fair use guidelines
> 
> View attachment 30746
> 
> *The Red Line “Silverbird” cars got a midlife rebuild in 1985. The project ran over six months late. The cars in the South Boston warehouse (pictured) were fitted with new parts in order for them to last another 10 years.*
> 
> Nothing in the story is shocking to us that follows the T except they really knew and didn't care. They had to buy new cars in 1993 to replace the 1963 vintage Pullman-Standard 'Bluebirds' which were nothing more than 1950s PCC cars modified for heavy rail and were in rough shape after 20 years.
> 
> The Globe story also has a graphic saying the oldest cars running in North America are on the PATCO line connecting Philadelphia and New Jersey.
> 
> View attachment 30747
> 
> 
> View attachment 30748
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 30749
> 
> 
> It boggles the mind that the MBTA never learns from past mistakes.


Great read.

I signed up for the 26 weeks subscription for $1.00.


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## MARC Rider

Fenway said:


> View attachment 30749
> 
> 
> It boggles the mind that the MBTA never learns from past mistakes.


Of course, you realize that if they had selected Bombardier, they would have been blasted by the press and politicians for "wasting" $514 million of the taxpayers money when they could have selected the "bargain" CNR bid. Even if they had selected Kawasaki, they would have been slammed for "wasting" $200 million.


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## Metra Electric Rider

Does the MBTA have a low-bidder requirement (I assume, one assumes, that they have an RFQ process that vets who can bid to start with?)?


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## Fenway

The Orange Line finishes 2022 with a thud


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Fenway said:


> The Orange Line finishes 2022 with a thud



I'm surprised they didn't put any of the 1200 (Hawker Siddley) trains back in service to replace the new trains with the power cable problems. Are they that far gone that the T would rather have 20 minute headways?


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## Bostontoallpoints

New Year, same T: MBTA service disruptions coming on Orange, Green, and Red lines


The MBTA has announced a slate of upcoming service disruptions on the Orange, Green, and Red lines due to the demolition of the Government Center Garage, emergency repair work on water lines, and r…




www.bostonherald.com





New Year, same T: MBTA service disruptions coming on Orange, Green, and Red lines


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## Tlcooper93

Bostontoallpoints said:


> New Year, same T: MBTA service disruptions coming on Orange, Green, and Red lines
> 
> 
> The MBTA has announced a slate of upcoming service disruptions on the Orange, Green, and Red lines due to the demolition of the Government Center Garage, emergency repair work on water lines, and r…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bostonherald.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Year, same T: MBTA service disruptions coming on Orange, Green, and Red lines


To be fair, these disruptions seem rather mundane and routine, and not have too much to do with the T in and of itself.


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## daybeers

Tlcooper93 said:


> To be fair, these disruptions seem rather mundane and routine, and not have too much to do with the T in and of itself.


Really? A brand-new branch bustituted? Multiple lines down at the same time for scheduled work, when it could otherwise be spread over time to reduce inconvenience?


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## Fenway

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I'm surprised they didn't put any of the 1200 (Hawker Siddley) trains back in service to replace the new trains with the power cable problems. Are they that far gone that the T would rather have 20 minute headways?



My friends at the T have told me the Feds said enough on the 1200s after the fire. 

The ticking timebomb is the Red Line 1500-1600 Pullman-Standard cars that still have 66 cars active and only 10 CRRCs available. 

I do not envy the new Governor trying to turn this around.


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