# New L.A. Line STILL Won't Get To Airport



## WhoozOn1st (Aug 12, 2013)

Even if a current proposal gets built, a one-seat ride on rails between the LAXes appears to be a pipe dream...

Newest train to LAX will still come up short, at least at first - http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-train-to-lax-20130812,0,7060571.story

"The $2.06-billion north-south Crenshaw Line will connect the Mid-City Expo Line with the South Bay's Green Line. When it opens, now slated for 2019, it will pass 1.5 miles east of the LAX terminals, with a stop at Century and Aviation boulevards. It will not have an LAX connection, other than shuttles, for up to nine more years, depending on how a series of design and financing issues are resolved.

"Los Angeles World Airports and Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials are considering a direct extension of the light-rail system or a separate people-mover system that would circulate inside the airport. A decision on a route and the type of system that will be built is expected late next year. If extra money can be secured and environmental reviews finished quickly, officials say, the light-rail extension could open as soon as 2020.

"But many basic questions remain unanswered, including how many people would use it and how ridership would be affected by the various options.

"'People often tell us, "Just build it, already,"' said Roderick Diaz, project director for the Airport Metro Connector. 'But they all disagree on what "it" is. It's not a simple thing to do.'"




On the right of this Green Line train departing Aviation Blvd. station is the stub of an unbuilt link to LAX the airport, which is 2.5 miles away by shuttle bus (WhoozPhoto, 7-17-09).​


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## Nathanael (Aug 12, 2013)

LAWA has seemed allergic to actually providing rail transport to the airport. Whatcha gonna do.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 12, 2013)

What are the odds that Lots and Lots of people would use it since LAX is one of the busiest Airports around and even though the Airport Express Bus is nice a system similar to Philadelphias' would be "Spot on"!! Vegas wouldn't Book this one, it's a Lock!!


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## fairviewroad (Aug 12, 2013)

The airport doesn't need it since they're, you know, LAX International Airport and people will use it no matter what.

Just look at LGA and JFK in NYC. Not exactly the most transit friendly but I don't see either of those airports

suffering. When you get down to it, this is really about transportation and airport planners not having the political

will to make the commute easier for low-wage airport employees. The traveling public will use the airport either way.


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## AlanB (Aug 12, 2013)

fairviewroad said:


> The airport doesn't need it since they're, you know, LAX International Airport and people will use it no matter what.Just look at LGA and JFK in NYC. Not exactly the most transit friendly but I don't see either of those airports
> 
> suffering.


Actually JFK does have rail transportation now; only LGA doesn't have any.



fairviewroad said:


> When you get down to it, this is really about transportation and airport planners not having the politicalwill to make the commute easier for low-wage airport employees. The traveling public will use the airport either way.


This is as much about airport planners not wanting to give up their lucrative parking fees and the taxi lobby not wanting to give up their lucrative fares.


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## ozbuc (Aug 12, 2013)

Hotels are in this mix as well. When I travel to a city that has an airport mass transit connection I look for hotels within walking distance to that transit line.


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## xyzzy (Aug 12, 2013)

AlanB said:


> This is as much about airport planners not wanting to give up their lucrative parking fees and the taxi lobby not wanting to give up their lucrative fares.


Ding ding ding. Same can be said in Raleigh-Durham, where the RDU Airport Authority has been cool about adding RDU to a forthcoming rail transit service. Or in Atlanta, where the people running Hartsfield in the 1980s were in no hurry to see Marta rail reach that far (it finally happened in 1988).


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## the_traveler (Aug 12, 2013)

Just look at how many years TF Green (PVD) airport took to build it's rail station. And that's only 1/4 mile away. I started coming to this area in the early 1990's and there were talks about it then. The station opened within the last year or two, and is only served by MBTA.

Amtrak "may" stop there "sometime" in the future, but they say that (especially) Acela will ether stop at the airport or downtown PVD - but not both!


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## me_little_me (Aug 12, 2013)

xyzzy said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > This is as much about airport planners not wanting to give up their lucrative parking fees and the taxi lobby not wanting to give up their lucrative fares.
> ...


Or Denver building that zillion dollar airport with nary a thought to mass transit for it.


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## MattW (Aug 12, 2013)

Denver at least is correcting its mistake with the construction of of a commuter rail line to it. Incidentally, I believe it will be the only commuter rail line to be electrified west of Chicago.


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## WhoozOn1st (Aug 12, 2013)

MattW said:


> Denver at least is correcting its mistake with the construction of of a commuter rail line to it. Incidentally, I believe it will be the only commuter rail line to be electrified east of Chicago.


Denver is about 1,000 miles WEST of Chicago. Will Denver's line be operational before Caltrain (ALSO west of Chicago, for the geographically challenged) goes electric?

Additionally, though the Mile High City may have built the new airfield "with nary a thought to mass transit for it," (I don't know that that's true) the situation is in the process of being corrected. LAX has been there how long without direct rail service? Since forever. And the linked article says still nothing doing "_for up to nine more years._" (emphasis added) I'm skeptical that there'll be anything at the end of nine years. Probably more accurate to say at LEAST nine more years.


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## MattW (Aug 12, 2013)

Lol, whoops! Right idea, wrong direction  Thanks for catching, I fixed it. But I'm pretty sure we'll see Denver EMUs running back and forth long before Caltrain, mostly because there are already videos online of the vehicles being tested.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 12, 2013)

DEN airport is OK. At least it was when I flew out of there. Not that hard to reach it by road on the freeway branch by car or SkyRide.

But LAX is a different situation. LAX will soon have two rail lines passing close to it, but bypassing the airport. If you're gonna bypass the airport, might as well not even build the line.

And LAX dosen't have any highway or other road leading from Downtown to the airport. You have to make a big detour.


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## fairviewroad (Aug 13, 2013)

AlanB said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > The airport doesn't need it since they're, you know, LAX International Airport and people will use it no matter what.
> ...


I didn't say it didn't have rail transportation, only that it wasn't the most transit-friendly. It's still

a multi-seat ride to get pretty much anywhere. The AirTrain is an improvement, to be sure, but the actual

rail service isn't any closer to JFK than it will be to the new LAX line.



AlanB said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > When you get down to it, this is really about transportation and airport planners not having the political
> ...


I agree, those are factors as well.


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## calwatch (Aug 13, 2013)

This is not much different than the Boston Airport situation with a shuttle to rail. The existing LAWA Green Line station runs very infrequently - once every 20-30 minutes in the evening. If they ran it every 10 minutes at all hours, and during the peak had buses leaving the Green Line Station once they got full, then that would help increase perceptions dramatically. Right now, for some trips, it is actually faster to walk over to Sepulveda to catch a local bus rather than wait for a shuttle. At least the local buses are on Nextbus and you can actually get moving.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 13, 2013)

The "New " Austin (Motto: Two Cars in every Garage!) Airport is located where the Old Bergstrom Air Force Base was since WWII! With the exception of Four a Day "Airport Flyer Buses" to/ from the university of Texas and Downtown, there is No Public Transportation for the Workers or Passengers resulting in a Full Parking Garage (another is going to be Built) and Huge City Owned and Off Airport Parking Lots which are Full most times! Cap Metro built the Red Line Commuter Rail from Leander 25 miles NW of Austin to Downtown @ a Cost of over $1 Billion Dollars! Now the City is "discussing" building Lite Rail or a Trolley System to the Airport from Downtown which would cost another Billion Dollars and run on some of the Busiest Roads in Austin (mostly Creep and Crawl Traffic Day and Nght!) or else make the Airport "Express Way" a Toll Road! Visionary Planning isnt our strong suit here in River City, too bad they can't hire the People responsible for the Expanding Dallas/Ft. Worth Public Transportation System which is now really First Rate! ("You've come a Long Way Baby!)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 14, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> The "New " Austin (Motto: Two Cars in every Garage!) Airport is located where the Old Bergstrom Air Force Base was since WWII! With the exception of Four a Day "Airport Flyer Buses" to/ from the university of Texas and Downtown, there is No Public Transportation for the Workers or Passengers resulting in a Full Parking Garage (another is going to be Built) and Huge City Owned and Off Airport Parking Lots which are Full most times! Cap Metro built the Red Line Commuter Rail from Leander 25 miles NW of Austin to Downtown @ a Cost of over $1 Billion Dollars! Now the City is "discussing" building Lite Rail or a Trolley System to the Airport from Downtown which would cost another Billion Dollars and run on some of the Busiest Roads in Austin (mostly Creep and Crawl Traffic Day and Nght!) or else make the Airport "Express Way" a Toll Road! Visionary Planning isnt our strong suit here in River City, too bad they can't hire the People responsible for the Expanding Dallas/Ft. Worth Public Transportation System which is now really First Rate! ("You've come a Long Way Baby!)


At least Austin dosen't have a major airport. This would be mcuh worse at DFW or IAH. Dallas does have a great system now, lots of light rail, RTS buses, and a HUGE Greyhound hub with their headquaters base!



calwatch said:


> This is not much different than the Boston Airport situation with a shuttle to rail. The existing LAWA Green Line station runs very infrequently - once every 20-30 minutes in the evening. If they ran it every 10 minutes at all hours, and during the peak had buses leaving the Green Line Station once they got full, then that would help increase perceptions dramatically. Right now, for some trips, it is actually faster to walk over to Sepulveda to catch a local bus rather than wait for a shuttle. At least the local buses are on Nextbus and you can actually get moving.


Considering that the Green Line dosen't even go to Downtown, you might as well ride the 111 or 102 to LAX Bus Center, or the Culver 6.


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## cirdan (Aug 14, 2013)

WhoozOn1st said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Denver at least is correcting its mistake with the construction of of a commuter rail line to it. Incidentally, I believe it will be the only commuter rail line to be electrified east of Chicago.
> ...


Don't you consider BART to be electric commuter rail? It was west of Denver last time I checked.


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 14, 2013)

cirdan said:


> WhoozOn1st said:
> 
> 
> > MattW said:
> ...


BART is a heavy rail, subway-type operation. It is not connected to the national rail network. As a matter of fact, it's not even standard gauge. So, BART is not commuter rail.


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## George Harris (Aug 14, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > WhoozOn1st said:
> ...


And, thanks to the airport not wanting to lose parking fees, the taxi lobby and pressure from everybody else except those that use it, the BART fare to the airport is way more expensive than the BART fare for any equivalent distance elsewhere on the system.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 15, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > WhoozOn1st said:
> ...


Agreed. They're not the same thing. Even the name implies: Bay Area *Rapid Transit*. If Caltrain goes electric, can Amtrak run into the Caltrain station in SFD?


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