# Rocky Mountaineer New Equipment



## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 15, 2019)

_Goldleaf Bi-level Glass domed Coaches
Rocky Mountaineer
In May 2015, Stadler received an order for the development and construction of 10 bespoke luxurious GoldLeaf bi-level glass domed coaches for the fleet of Canadian rail travel company Rocky Mountaineer. Deliveries of the new vehicles will commence in 2018. The GoldLeaf coaches will be in operation for tourist services in the Canadian Rocky Mountains.
The upper decks of the double-decker carriages feature large, electrically darkening panoramic windows to offer passengers the ultimate in luxury and make travelling through the breathtaking scenery an unforgettable experience._

*So did the Stadler equipment show up yet? *

I know the Rock Mountaineer is sending equipment to be refurbished, but have not see anything about the new equipment.  Any updates?


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 15, 2019)

Edited: Those cars look sweet. 

Imagine if Amtrak was allowed to manage and market their long distance service as an experience to remember rather than a common carrier to forget.


----------



## PerRock (Jan 15, 2019)

Looks like they've gotten some. Without any serious comparisons, they look the same as the CRC Gold Leaf Domes. Here is one being unloaded from a boat for RMR:


----------



## cpotisch (Jan 15, 2019)

Looks like a somewhat newer and prettier SSL, with a small open vestibule. Why not go for an actual panoramic dome design where you can see straight ahead and behind? Seems like a missed opportunity...


----------



## PerRock (Jan 15, 2019)

cpotisch said:


> Looks like a somewhat newer and prettier SSL, with a small open vestibule. Why not go for an actual panoramic dome design where you can see straight ahead and behind? Seems like a missed opportunity...


You can:






(Pictured is the older Colorado Rail Car Ultradome, by the looks of it in the second picture above I posted, the new Stadler ones have the windows as well)

peter


----------



## cpotisch (Jan 15, 2019)

PerRock said:


> You can:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But those windows are pretty tiny, and aren't really _panoramic_, per se.


----------



## jis (Jan 15, 2019)

Actually they are way bigger than the front facing Great Dome windows [emoji6]


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 16, 2019)

If there running a bunch of cars together, nothing to see but the car in front of you.  With the ten new cars arriving, one in 14 chances to see out the front windows?  Your odds are not in your favor.


----------



## PerRock (Jan 16, 2019)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> If there running a bunch of cars together, nothing to see but the car in front of you.  With the ten new cars arriving, one in 14 chances to see out the front windows?  Your odds are not in your favor.


I'd think that actually because of the design of those cars,  and the fact that the windows essentially butt up against each other on the ends, you'd still be able to see somewhat, by looking thru your end window, the next car's end window, and then the next car's side windows. But you'd still have a similarly restricted view if you ran a series of older Superdomes in tandem.

peter


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 16, 2019)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> If there running a bunch of cars together, nothing to see but the car in front of you.  With the ten new cars arriving, one in 14 chances to see out the front windows?  Your odds are not in your favor.


I wonder if it would be possible to install slanted windows at the ends of low tunnel clearing double height passenger cars.


----------



## VentureForth (Jan 16, 2019)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> If there running a bunch of cars together, nothing to see but the car in front of you.  With the ten new cars arriving, one in 14 chances to see out the front windows?  Your odds are not in your favor.


How do you ever see through the person in front of you?


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jan 16, 2019)

VentureForth said:


> How do you ever see through the person in front of you?


Because they have the disappearing railroad blues





That's one thing I hate about a lot of my fellow excursion operators. They bunch up six and seven dome cars together. Back in the olden days some railroads had rules that one must run one flat roof car (single level) between domes.


----------



## railiner (Jan 16, 2019)

That’s why I consider the short Vista-Domes to be the best for sightseeing.

The original CZ ran the coach domes together, and there was sufficient distance between the domes for a decent forward (and rearward) view.  And having only six rows meant not being very far from the ends.

When I rode the ARR “Gold Service” Ultra Dome from Anchorage to Seward in August of 2017, I made sure I was assigned seat 1A in ‘car A’,  yielding the best view on the train, this side of the engineer.  Looked out high over baggage car and locomotives.


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jan 17, 2019)

I believe the Alaska Railroad has ex Union Pacific AC&F vista domes for the adventure class passengers.


----------



## railiner (Jan 17, 2019)

Seaboard92 said:


> I believe the Alaska Railroad has ex Union Pacific AC&F vista domes for the adventure class passengers.


Yes...but only one to be “shared” by passengers in that car, and other flat top coaches on the train.   Gold service, everyone sits in Ultra Dome.   There is a single level  panoramic lounge with glass top on some trains...


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jan 17, 2019)

I think I'll go do it in the regular dome from the UP. They apparently allow open vestibules as well. So between open vestibule and a vista dome I'm good.


----------



## JRR (Jan 17, 2019)

Seaboard92 said:


> I think I'll go do it in the regular dome from the UP. They apparently allow open vestibules as well. So between open vestibule and a vista dome I'm good.


The Rocky Mountaineer has an open vestibule where you can stand. The domes however, don’t allow the forward view.

The Canadian, however, has the vista domes ( not sure that’s the correct terminology) and at least one car between.


----------



## cocojacoby (Jan 17, 2019)

Holland America designed their "Ultra Domes" to be as close to a traditional dome as possible. 




One of the advantages of the other style is you can have a pass-through on any level.  These only allow pass-through on the bottom level.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2019)

cocojacoby said:


> Holland America designed their "Ultra Domes" to be as close to a traditional dome as possible.


That doesn't look anything like a traditional dome to me.  A real dome gives you a 360-degree view of everything around you.  I'm not aware of any rule or regulation that prevents building a true dome car today.


----------



## cocojacoby (Jan 17, 2019)

And how does this design not allow a 360 degree view?


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2019)

cocojacoby said:


> And how does this design not allow a 360 degree view?


Yes, if the car is sitting alone on a vacant track the view will be 360 degrees.  If it's part of an actual train the view will be blocked in the front and/or back of the car.


----------



## PerRock (Jan 17, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Yes, if the car is sitting alone on a vacant track the view will be 360 degrees.  If it's part of an actual train the view will be blocked in the front and/or back of the car.


As would a regular full dome if you put a couple of them together.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2019)

PerRock said:


> As would a regular full dome if you put a couple of them together.


The very concept of a "full dome" is bordering on oxymoron territory.  The original dome design allowed for a full wraparound view precisely because the dome itself did not run the full length of the car.  Newer full length domes only provide a full view if they're separated by shorter cars in between.  Stretching the dome from end to end and then butting them up against other domes largely defeats the original purpose.


----------



## PerRock (Jan 17, 2019)

Here are two "full domes" (or more properly "Super Domes") coupled together on an excursion run. Now I wasn't on that train, but can tell that you don't get a full 360* view becuase there is another dome car right there.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 17, 2019)

PerRock said:


> Here are two "full domes" (or more properly "Super Domes") coupled together on an excursion run. Now I wasn't on that train, but can tell that you don't get a full 360* view becuase there is another dome car right there.


I feel like we're both saying almost the same thing at this point but one of us doesn't realize it yet?  ^_^

By my way of thinking these are proper domes...






^ These examples happen to be separated with shorter cars in between, but even if they were connected directly to each other you'd still get a pretty good view all around.


----------



## cpotisch (Jan 17, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I feel like we're both saying almost the same thing at this point but one of us doesn't realize it yet?  ^_^
> 
> By my way of thinking these are proper domes...
> 
> ...


That the Canadian?


----------



## railiner (Jan 17, 2019)

PerRock said:


> Here are two "full domes" (or more properly "Super Domes") coupled together on an excursion run. Now I wasn't on that train, but can tell that you don't get a full 360* view becuase there is another dome car right there.


The car on the left is a Pullman-Standard built “Superdome”.  The one on the right is a. Budd built “Big Dome” or “Great Dome”, depending on if it was a former ATSF or GN...


----------



## Seaboard92 (Jan 18, 2019)

That's an ATSF dome. You can tell by the fluting. The GN car is slab sided. And yes Cpotisch that is the Canadian in one of the pictures. Vista Domes domes are the true domes. The CRC domes are an abomination of dome cars in my opinion.


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jan 18, 2019)

Here's an exMilwaukee  'Superdome' ....CN 'Sceneramic' on the Super Continental at Winnipeg in 1975. Seats were placed too low for goods views forward or rear compared to a Budd Dome (Photo 3 & 4 below)


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Jan 18, 2019)

CN eventually modified the 'Sceneramic' dome interiors from conventional coach style seating to a bar and lounge. (But you certainly couldn't beat that rear view from the exMilwaukee 'Skytop' CN 'Skyview' cars used on the Ocean Limited!)


----------

