# Questions about Guest Reward MasterCard



## deafrailfan (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello I am member of AGR... and I see a faster way to earn points thru Chase credit card. I have not applied online for processing, but I have a question and concern about the sensitive personal information such as SSN.

Have any of you have problems apply for the credit card? I have not applied online and am wary of the identity theft and fraud out there. I just wanted to play safe and ask if any of you have problems applying there.

Thanks in advance.


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## Ryan (Jun 18, 2010)

Chase is a megabank and has all the appropriate security in place. I've got it and haven't had any issues.


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## Ozark Southern (Jun 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Chase is a megabank and has all the appropriate security in place. I've got it and haven't had any issues.


Yes, Chase is one of the U.S.'s largest banks. Don't worry; your information is perfectly safe with them. Their customer service is quite good, too; I've had some bad luck with Bank of America and Citibank regarding customer service, but never with Chase. When I saw that the AGR MasterCard was through them, I jumped at the chance. I regard the company very highly (and that's really saying something, given my experience with banks).


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 18, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Chase is a megabank and has all the appropriate security in place.





Ozark Southern said:


> Yes, Chase is one of the U.S.'s largest banks. Don't worry; your information is perfectly safe with them.


I'll keep that in mind the next time I read about the latest incident of a "megabank" being caught losing personal details on unencrypted data tapes being sent through unsecured delivery services. It's happened enough times that I'm honestly surprised people still think like this. Just to be clear, I'm not saying Chase specifically is unsafe with your data, I'm saying that their status as a huge American bank is no reason to assume they're any safer than anyone else. History has shown that large American banks can be extremely careless with their customers' personal data and will face only minor penalties for refusing to implent even the most rudimentary security protocols. Every time you open a new account you're increasing the risk that your data may eventually be compromised, so it's only natural and healthy to be concerned with how much of your personal data is sitting around just waiting for someone to happen upon it. At this point it's hard to say which banks are more secure than others because there is absolutely no explicit expectation, no transparency, and no rating systems for us to use in our decision.


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## the_traveler (Jun 18, 2010)

As long as you see "hppt*s*" in the address, and a "closed lock" on the screen, that means the transaction is secure!  I would not worry nearly as much about giving information to Chase. I worry more (although I still do it) about giving my credit card to the waiter at a restaurant - where he goes into the back room! And I would not open an account with "Joe's 16th International Bank"!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 18, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> As long as you see "hppt*s*" in the address, and a "closed lock" on the screen, that means the transaction is secure!  I would not worry nearly as much about giving information to Chase. I worry more (although I still do it) about giving my credit card to the waiter at a restaurant - where he goes into the back room! And I would not open an account with "Joe's 16th International Bank"!


On its own _http__*s*_ doesn't mean nearly as much as many consumers seem to think it means. All it means is that there is an encrypted TLS link (or tunnel) between you and some other computer. It could be to the bank's server or it could be any number of other computers anywhere in the world. There are certificates and authorities that are supposed to help ensure that you've ended up where you expected to be, but the system is only as strong as its weakest link and there are more weak links in the system than most consumers seem to realize. TLS certificates can be purchased for almost nothing, including from trusted root authorities. They can also be crafted on their own in some cases. TLS would be more useful if consumers understood more about how it actually works, but as-is they aren't likely to know which certificate popup messages are important and which are not. There is also the matter of what happens to the data once it's beeing received by the other system. TLS has nothing to do with how the data is stored or processed by the bank once they have it. Historically it's been insecure storage and transmission between bank servers and backup and recovery storage areas that has been the easiest to compromise and posed the most obvious risk. Intercepting a website transaction can only get you as many details as the people reaching your fake site are willing and able to provide. Grabbing whole tables with millions of records directly from unencrypted backup tapes would presumably be far more destructive and lucrative. As for smaller, less known banks the benefit of choosing them is that they're still covered by their own payments into the FDIC system but they will not be able to run to the federal government demanding your tax dollars to bail them out when they get drunk on power and lose half of their worth at the international loan casino. Recovering from a malicious charge against your credit card is far easier than bailing out a runaway megabank with our national treasury. Just some food for thought.


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## lthanlon (Jun 18, 2010)

I had no problems at all applying for the card.


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## Sue in KY (Jun 18, 2010)

Ummmm ....

I don't know if this has anything to do with Chase and/or the AGR account specifically, but our identity has been compromised and our account has had to be closed and another opened with a different number, *twice* now in the two years we've had an AGR account -- both times right before we were leaving on an Amtrak trip! The first time, in December 2009, only our Chase AGR account was involved; the second time, in April 2010, the damage spread to our retirement accounts and our bank accounts. That was a real nightmare!

And this sort of thing has never before happened to us with any other credit card account, yet we've been using the Internet almost exclusively for all our purchases and banking, almost ever since there's been a publically used Internet (the late 1980s, for us)!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 19, 2010)

Sue in KY said:


> [O]ur identity has been compromised and our account has had to be closed and another opened with a different number, *twice* now in the two years we've had an AGR account.


Egad! That does sound like a real nightmare. What a mess.



Sue in KY said:


> [W]e've been using the Internet almost exclusively for all our purchases and banking, almost ever since there's been a publically used Internet (the late 1980s, for us)!


In late 1980's the Internet still didn't sport graphical interfaces. Which makes sense as most folks were probably on a 2,400 bps modem anyway. Many operations handled by the browser today still required access to a UNIX shell back then. The idea that you were exclusively using such a rudimentary system for purchases and banking seems a little, well, odd. Hyperlinks, graphical browsing, and flexible branching were still in their gooey embryonic stages back then, relegated to localized and limited predecessors like HyperCard. Online stores were still extremely simplistic and very few banks allowed substantial access to consumer accounts online. It wasn't until at least the mid-1990's that we had anything resembling the Internet we know today, and even then it was extremely ugly and slow. Just sayin'.


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## Sue in KY (Jun 20, 2010)

daxomni said:


> Sue in KY said:
> 
> 
> > [O]ur identity has been compromised and our account has had to be closed and another opened with a different number, *twice* now in the two years we've had an AGR account.
> ...


Daxomni --

Yeah, you're right about the non-graphical interface -- we were pioneers, in a way! (I was a beta tester for Netscape from Version 0.2 or so, and had been a BBSer when they were all text-based.) And we weren't banking -- USBank didn't even get its online operation going until just a few years ago. But we WERE buying books, from an outfit even before Amazon.com that I think was simply called Books.com or something similar. They had lists of books, and you had to know the name of what you wanted (it helped that we received Book of the Month and Literary Guild catalogs back then). Then TWA went online, and that was the airline we were frequent flyers on ... and it all mushroomed from there.


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## sechs (Jun 21, 2010)

Ozark Southern said:


> Their customer service is quite good, too; I've had some bad luck with Bank of America and Citibank regarding customer service, but never with Chase.


Obviously, you haven't had enough experience with them.


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## Ozark Southern (Jun 21, 2010)

sechs said:


> Ozark Southern said:
> 
> 
> > Their customer service is quite good, too; I've had some bad luck with Bank of America and Citibank regarding customer service, but never with Chase.
> ...


LOL! Maybe it is just a matter of time.


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## Trogdor (Jun 21, 2010)

The reality of the situation is, there's nothing special/specific about the AGR Mastercard that makes it any more or less secure than any other credit card out there.

If you're worried about your SSN getting out there, or if you're worried about credit card fraud or identity theft, then don't sign up for any credit card at all.

In fact, you probably shouldn't have a regular bank account, either, because they are just as susceptible to the same types of fraud (especially with ATM/check cards). In fact, if you're a victim of stolen account information, you'd be worse off if it was your bank account vs. your credit card. With a credit card, you can put a freeze on the account, owe nothing for the fraudulent charges made, and have a new card in a few days. With a bank, they have your money, and even though you'll get it back (banks will generally put any stolen money back in your account), it may take some time for them to process the paperwork to do so. All the while, your money isn't available to you (this happened to me once).


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jun 21, 2010)

deafrailfan said:


> ..., but I have a question and concern about the sensitive personal information such as SSN.


I don't think there is any way for someone to apply for a credit card, or any type of credit, without providing their SSN.

While true, once that bank has your SSN, you are at the mercy of their security and how they protect your info. However, I think that would be true no matter how you applied, in person, on the phone, or on the web.

IMHO, tax people are potentially worse, because they put the taxpayer's SSN onto everything, and some of those things travel in pretty unsecured ways (a cancelled check, for example).


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 21, 2010)

Trogdor said:


> If you're worried about your SSN getting out there, or if you're worried about credit card fraud or identity theft, then don't sign up for any credit card at all. In fact, you probably shouldn't have a regular bank account, either, because they are just as susceptible to the same types of fraud (especially with ATM/check cards).


The point isn't that people shouldn't have access to bank accounts and credit cards. The point is that every additional site that has your personal information is yet another vector through which fraudulent activity can find you. When people say "It's a huge bank, you're safe." that's not a very logical way to look at it. Huge banks represent huge targets and their level of security has proven to be just as bad as the neighborhood tax lady who works out of her home office. Huge banks also suck up huge taxpayer windfalls, the likes of which your neighborhood tax lady can't even fathom.

Here's my practical advice soapbox for people with American financial accounts...

1. Always watch your accounts closely. Check them periodically to make sure nothing weird is coming down the pipe. In some cases you must notify your bank of any suspect behavior in 48 hours or less. In general, it's YOUR responsibility to catch and report fraud, not your bank's.

2. Try to keep as few active accounts as possible. Approach each personal information form with heightened scrutiny. Ask yourself if they really need all that information. If you can't figure out why they need it then don't give it.

3. Close accounts that have little or no activity. In the case of banking or investing accounts this needs to be done carefully, over a period of time, to avoid hurting your credit record. Spread out your closures so that they're not occurring in rapid succession. Also consider requesting a raise in available credit for accounts you intend to remain open to offset the loss of available credit from the account you're closing.

4. If you don't like working under an opaque system that expects you to pick a bank with no way of verifying that they're safe then make those feelings known to your Senators and your Congressperson. Seriously.

5. Review and research any advice you receive online, including in this very post. Don't just blindly follow what this or that person says. Develop a healthy level of personal responsibility and act on it. Take what you read here and elsewhere and go on a fact finding mission on your own to either confirm or discredit it. Then post what you find and let others return the favor.

OK, off my soapbox for a bit. ;-)


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## frugalist (Jun 21, 2010)

daxomni said:


> 3. Close accounts that have little or no activity. In the case of banking or investing accounts this needs to be done carefully, over a period of time, to avoid hurting your credit record. Spread out your closures so that they're not occurring in rapid succession. Also consider requesting a raise in available credit for accounts you intend to remain open to offset the loss of available credit from the account you're closing.
> 5. Review and research any advice you receive online, including in this very post. Don't just blindly follow what this or that person says. Develop a healthy level of personal responsibility and act on it. Take what you read here and elsewhere and go on a fact finding mission on your own to either confirm or discredit it. Then post what you find and let others return the favor.


In the spirit of #5, I have a question about #3. How does closing a checking account (or even several checking accounts in rapid succession) affect your credit score? I understand how closing credit card accounts affects your credit score. If for no other reason, your utilization ratio goes up. But this is the first I've heard of a checking account closure affecting your credit score. Would you please ellaborate? Thanks.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 21, 2010)

frugalist said:


> In the spirit of #5, I have a question about #3. How does closing a checking account (or even several checking accounts in rapid succession) affect your credit score? I understand how closing credit card accounts affects your credit score. If for no other reason, your utilization ratio goes up. But this is the first I've heard of a checking account closure affecting your credit score. Would you please ellaborate? Thanks.


I do not have specific information on how much or how little closing a checking account that is not tied to any credit card impacts your credit report. However, I would presume that changes to anything that can result in a potential liability (unpaid check or debit, etc) can harm your credit report if not handled carefully. For instance, moving all bills that may be collected or debited from such an account and then leaving it unused for a full quarter and verifying nothing else comes in before closing it out. Also, you might want to sign up for credit monitoring service as the "free" version mandated by the government only allows annual checks, by which time far more damage can have occurred than if you checked once a month or so. The crux of the problem is that there is no publicly available formula any of us has or ever will have access to that allows us to how our actions impact our credit scores. It's a fixed and opaque system but it won't ever get better until we start voting for and demanding better protections.


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