# Defibulators on Amtrak, horrible food and the worst SCA ever....



## JackieTakestheTrain (Aug 24, 2015)

Hi:

I am back from my mega New York-Atlanta-Charlottesville-Cincinnati-NewYork Amtrak trip.

Somewhere on both ends of that I traveled from Boston to NYC on a bus.

To say my trip was eventful is an understatement.

I want to stay on topic so I will start with the biggest event: A young man nearly died on the Atlanta train platform. He was a heart transplant recipient whose heart just gave out. He was technically dead but revived at the hospital. I know a lot of you like to split hairs on here but can you just trust me on this one -- I was there.

I am leaving out the part where I just spent the prior hour chatting with his mom, physically challenged like me with a cane, and he and his teenage sister in the tiny Amtrak Atlanta train station. I am leaving out the part where I had been marveling how this single mom with her own issues was keeping her family together. I am leaving out how I had watched her son who was facing me and laughing with us as we waited and waited on the train. He had a toothy, sweet, lopsided grin and once he morphed into a man he would break all the women's hearts with that smile. We enjoying the good company.

I am leaving out the part about what happened as soon as I was settled into the room once I got on the train. There I heard the girl's cries like a knife in my ears and my heart. Looking out the window, I saw her running down the platform and begging anyone to help her brother. She said he wasn't moving. I am leaving out the part where I could, if I leaned just right, see the the bottom of his shoes as he laid face down on the platform right near the next car. This same boy whom I just spoken to only a few minutes prior.

I am also leaving out the part about the pretty nurse in the roomette across from me who was in the middle of telling me this was her first Amtrak train trip and she was excited. She was going to New York to see a play on Broadway. She was turning 50. When I explained to her what I was seeing and hearing outside, she went down to see if she could be assistance while the Amtrak personnel waited for the medics. I am also leaving out the part where when she came back she told me the young man was deceased. His lifeless body did not respond to the CPR she gave him.

I watched the medics use a syringe to try to revive him. I watched them put his body on a stretcher and continue to give him CPR. All outside my dirty Roomette window. I am leaving out the part where someone went to get his mom from coach. I could see them transporting her in a wheelchair to the fire truck that was going to the follow the ambulance that had already left. Someone had brought her some oxygen but she was sobbing ..and moaning. Her daughter trailed behind her looking lost and confused.

I am also leaving out that my SCA (the good one not my worst one!) was a mess. He had been the first one to tend to the young man and stayed until the paramedics came. I am also leaving out the part where he kept apologizing to me the entire trip because he was not able to tend to me as he had wished. He apologized 5 times. He didn't need to apologize at all.

Did I mention I was crying off and on during all of this? And praying aloud. I was.

I am leaving out the part where about midnight, after I was trying to wrap my brain out everything, that I heard a knock on the door. It was the nurse across the hall. Good news: The boy was breathing on his own. She couldn't sleep either and she had called all the local hospitals to try to find out something -- anything. She finally found him and she thought I would want to know that he was breathing on his own. And I was thankful to know.

But, what I really wanted to know was why didn't Amtrak have a defibulator? I asked her. She said they only had a first aid kit.

So, I am asking all of you: Does Amtrak have defibulators and if not, who can I write to, call or scream at immediately to campaign to change that?

-jg

p.s. I will write about my horrible food and worst SCA elsewhere....


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 24, 2015)

Sad news indeed Jackie! IINM there is supposed to be a Defibulator in the Diner (CCC) or Cafe Car on all Amtrak Trains?

Sounds like your SCA and the Nurse Neighbor are the kind of folks we wish everyone was!

Glad to hear the young man is alive, look forward to your next trip report even if parts of it sound like one of those trips from hell we've all had!


----------



## Ryan (Aug 24, 2015)

IIRC, they're in the cafe car.

Edit: yep, with bi-annual training for all train crew (operating and OBS)


----------



## Ryan (Aug 24, 2015)




----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 24, 2015)

Should have a defibrillator on the train. The crew should of been train in both location and use of.

Defib is 3k. New, the problem is it does get stolen.

CPR class Adult and Child with Defib at American Red Cross is now mostly on-line, with a 4 hour classroom at night or weekend.

Sorry but sudden death cardiac arrest is just that sudden. CPR must start ASAP, 4 min after your heart stop, you lose brain matter. Sounds like the system work. Witness event, CPR into the paramedic arrived than Advance Cardiac Life Support to the hospital.

How to deal with the PTSD? When you figured it out tell me. I am still dealing with the stuff from my days as a paramedic.

Best advise is get trained to do CPR. You feel much better if your cover in sweat when the paramedics take the patient away.

(helped vs watched). Sorry I think the OP did right by getting the nurse to respond, but when your covered in sweat you will know that everything you could do was done.


----------



## George K (Aug 24, 2015)

First of all, it’s _defibrillator_.


Secondly, if the young man collapsed on the platform, it may have been impossible to get the AED (Automatic External Defibrillator) to him. I would be surprised if in a place like Atlanta, there wasn’t one more readily available in the station itself.

Next, do you know for a fact that the AED was not used, if indeed it was retrieved from the station. It sounds to me like he got some pretty good and effective CPR from the people who were in attendance.

I don’t know what you mean when you say “I watched the medics use a syringe to try to revive him.” Sounds to me like they were tending to his problem with appropriate medications.

Lastly, a defibrillator will not, repeat NOT, get someone’s heart going unless it is in a lethal type of irregular rhythm, called Ventricular Fibrillation. If the hear has stopped, with no rhythm at all, defibrillation is ineffective.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 24, 2015)

Some good info from those who know!

As a trained and certified EMT/Firefighter from years past, I know I'm not up on the latest methods and equipment, that's why re-training and practice is so important!

Sounds like to me the poor guy received excellent and prompt care, but the OBS should have known where the Defibrillator was located and how to use it, along with CPR of course!


----------



## zepherdude (Aug 24, 2015)

It sounds to me as though everyone was doing all they could. EMS arrived and was tending to the problems. More of an EMS issue than Station Employes. What is important is the boy lived and everyone involved did all they could.

Screaming at people never does any good. It gets your heart and blood pressure all out of wack and sounds very unpleasant. The person on the other end of the screaming will most likely hang up,so what have you accomplished? Nothing!

The boy is alive and we are all thankful for that.


----------



## Peter KG6LSE (Aug 24, 2015)

George K said:


> Lastly, a defibrillator will not, repeat NOT, get someone’s heart going unless it is in a lethal type of irregular rhythm, called Ventricular Fibrillation. If the hear has stopped, with no rhythm at all, defibrillation is ineffective.


soo many folks sadly dont know this ..

I read the man many months ago and I also noted the AED policy. It really suck in my head.

I am a bit supprized the FRA does not * mandate * AEDs . Of all the stuff they ache about a AED is a drop in the bucket for a little box to save some lives.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain (Aug 24, 2015)

Thanks for moving the post (sincerely) and correcting my spelling (not as sincerely).

On a serious note, would it do any good to report the incident? Not to get anyone in trouble, but it seems odd to me that if there had been a defibrillator someone would have brought it to the nurse. She had no reason to lie about one not bring available, but on the other hand, she may have not thought they had one. I was certainly not going to quiz her about it!


----------



## Hal (Aug 24, 2015)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Thanks for moving the post (sincerely) and correcting my spelling (not as sincerely).
> 
> On a serious note, would it do any good to report the incident? Not to get anyone in trouble, but it seems odd to me that if there had been a defibrillator someone would have brought it to the nurse. She had no reason to lie about one not bring available, but on the other hand, she may have not thought they had one. I was certainly not going to quiz her about it!


Defibrillators are located in the lounge car. If for some reason it is missing it is not mandated. Someone would report it missing but the train can be dispatched without. It probably won't be replaced until the next 180 day inspection. But I expect it was there. Likely there were defibrillators in the station too. Did the nurse ask for one? As for reporting the incident, since EMS was called Amtrak would know about the incident.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain (Aug 24, 2015)

Hal said:


> JackieTakestheTrain said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for moving the post (sincerely) and correcting my spelling (not as sincerely).
> ...


Hal, thank you, of course, Amtrak, will look into it. And as I stated I did not ask her. I didn't think that was appropriate because clearly she was still rattled too.

In fact, by the time I got up, she had already left the train clearly before NYC.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Aug 24, 2015)

I came for a story about horrible food and the worst SCA ever but instead all I found was a story about defibrillators.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 24, 2015)

I wonder how long it would have been if all the parts left out would have been included.


----------



## City of Miami (Aug 24, 2015)

Friends, if I have a cardiac event in your presence please do not resuscitate, please please do not apply AED. Let me go. I am 68, not a boy. I have read stories of regrets.


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 24, 2015)

George's explanation is spot-on. I was hoping he'd chime in, considering his career.

The trained medical professionals did exactly what they were trained to do. I would not contact Amtrak, as the crew did not do anything wrong. There was a nurse on-scene, and if she had needed the AED, she would have asked for it (from either the station or the train). The EMTs would have had one with them as well.

I get nervous about AEDs being present in public areas, such as restaurants, because so many people watch medical dramas on TV and think they're supposed to be used for any cardiac event. If I pass out from an asthma attack, please don't assume it's my heart and electrocute me.  It won't do any good.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 24, 2015)

Ditto for me on what City of Miami said, ( I'm 71 going on 100) and also to Sarah, George and the other posters good information!

Sometimes untrained person's attempts to help in emergency situations causes more much more harm than the good intentions!


----------



## caravanman (Aug 24, 2015)

Pretty harrowing experience to go through, seeing someone collapse and stop breathing on the platform.

I am imagining the injection given might be ephidrine. Let's hope the person recovers...

I have to congratulate Devils Advocate and Ryan for both winning my "crass comments" badge. Sheesh...

Ed


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 24, 2015)

An Automatic Defibrillator can not be used incorrectly. Open case, remove pads apply to patient, turn it on. The unit will tell you what to do. You can not "shock" someone unless the unit determines it is needed, and then you still have to press the button. If the unit is apply to a telephone pole it will not shock, if apply to a asthma victim it will not "shock". It is fool proof.

The defibrillator unit in a hospital, and in Paramedic units are manual, and can be used wrong. The automatic defibrillator are designed for people with very little knowledge and have the directions clearly on the machine. Which is good, as each brand of machine works just a bit different.

Take the adult and child CPR class its fast and easy, and you get to play with a training model.

Your love one might just fall over one of these days, it better to help, then watch, and wait for the ambulance.


----------



## SarahZ (Aug 24, 2015)

Interesting. I didn't know it could do all of that.


----------



## George K (Aug 24, 2015)

A defibrillator is a dangerous piece of equipment. If discharged at the wrong moment, on somebody who doesn't need defibrillation, it can be lethal. There are cases of people who wanted to "play doctor" using defibrillators inappropriately - with sad results.

That's why the "A" in AED stands for "Automatic."

Let it do its job, and you won't go wrong.

That said, we have no way of knowing whether defibrillation at the Atlanta incident was called for (either by the Paramagics or the AED) or delivered.

As has been said in several posts - learn CPR. It'll buy time until the pros arrive, and in a place like Hotlanta, that's only minutes.


----------



## JackieTakestheTrain (Aug 25, 2015)

Moving on....

The rest of my trip was really uneventful, mostly, but I did want to comment on the food part of my trip.

I rode on the Crescent and the Cardinal for part of my journey. In each instance, I rode in a sleeper. I somewhat follow the threads on here so I know this won't be any revelation here about the differences in dining cars. What I couldn't get over, however,was awful the food on the Cardinal has become!

On the Crescent, I had what I thought was pretty decent food and decent choices. I opted for the chicken at dinner and the scrambled eggs and chicken sausage for breakfast. On my return, I had some salmon for dinner and again the eggs for breakfast.

But the Cardinal..I had the cheeseburger for lunch and for dinner something called short-ribs with mixed veggies and polenta. It was OK...marginally...but I was amazed at what they would charge for that meal if I rode in coach! I can't imagine that anyone would pay $20-plus for that meal! Don't get me started on the extra fee for the salad.

Breakfast on the Cardinal was really disgusting: The only options left were the omelet and french toast. I opted for the eggs given my previous experience on the Crescent. What was served to me however was awful. The eggs were OK, but the potatoes and green peppers (which I had declined but was served anyway) looked like someone had already chewed them up and put them back on my plate. Really. It was that bad. I didn't eat them.

Lunch and dinner were the still uninspired choices. I actually decided to skip the dinner entree and got a small pizza from the Cafe Car to go with my dinner salad.

I think Amtrak needs to work on consistency with the food (and yes, I understand about the different types of dining cars and equipment), but what I am really talking about is consistency. If they can't make a decent meal that doesn't look appealing or taste great when served, why bother?

My husband and I are traveling over the holidays on the Cardinal and I am seriously worried that there will be nothing on the menu, as it stands today, that he will eat and there is something that bugs me about paying for the sleeper and then still paying for food.

I really wished I had taken a picture of the breakfast. I would have loved to heard your comments.

Oh and my SCA: He was just a jerk....he never told me his name plus was flat-out mean.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 25, 2015)

As we always say, hopefully you will let Customer Relations know about the good and the bad!

Calling is best, but you may want to Snail mail Smiling Joes office and cc your Senators and House Reps offices also! ( if they aren't Hostile or uninterested in Amtrak and passenger rail).


----------



## crabby_appleton1950 (Aug 25, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I came for a story about horrible food and the worst SCA ever but instead all I found was a story about defibrillators.


Same here. But we did get a spelling lesson too. :unsure:


----------



## crabby_appleton1950 (Aug 25, 2015)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> Moving on....
> 
> I did want to comment on the food part of my trip.I was amazed at what they would charge for that meal if I rode in coach! I can't imagine that anyone would pay $20-plus for that meal!
> 
> ...


I did a round trip Albuquerque to San Diego this past May, so rode the Southwest Chief to and from Los Angeles.

Neither SCA told me their names, and when I asked they mumbled some response, so as they were both female I just called them “Ma’am”.

Going to L.A. I had the stuffed shells for dinner. I’ve had much better in a frozen dinner out of a grocery store. I decided to eat breakfast at Union Station, L.A.

On my return trip I brought sandwiches and snacks for the overnight ride, and ate lunch at home.

I plan another trip May 2016 and hope for a better experience.


----------

