# Bedroom downgraded to Coach a week before departure



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 1, 2022)

Hello all,

I just received a phone call and email from Amtrak stating that my round-trip reservation on the Southwest Chief next week has been downgraded from bedroom to coach accommodations both ways due to what was described as an equipment shortage. I was issued a refund in the amount of the difference between coach seats and bedrooms. Has anybody heard anything else like this? I was told that they removed a sleeping car from the Southwest Chief in both directions every day at least that week, and as far as I know, the Southwest Chief has been down to one sleeping car other than the Transdorm lately anyway.

I was not given any explanation, and I was wondering if anybody here has heard anything on the matter. I'm considering trying to book another train trip somewhere, but skeptical at this point, as I don't know if whatever train I book would have its sleepers removed too, not to mention lack of availability a week from now.


----------



## bratkinson (Jun 1, 2022)

I'd cancel the entire trip and find some other means to get there, or reschedule the entire trip at some future date. 

However, the reschedule must be done the first time you call and hopefully you could demand to get the same price tickets as you paid...regardless of the fare buckets, etc. You would likely have to talk with a supervisor. 

Alternatively, cancel the entire trip and contact Amtrak service <whatever> with a flaming email. And if you don't get a response in a week or so, another flaming email.

In short, I don't take kindly to getting screwed.


----------



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 1, 2022)

Thank you for your reply. The trip was intended as a vacation for my brother and me. We didn't so much care about going to Los Angeles, we just wanted to take the Chief for the experience of the train trip. I'm not sure that I can reschedule anytime this year due to my work schedule. Now with it being a week away, I'm stuck with trying to figure out if I can find a sleeper on a train somewhere else.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 1, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Thank you for your reply. The trip was intended as a vacation for my brother and me. We didn't so much care about going to Los Angeles, we just wanted to take the Chief for the experience of the train trip. I'm not sure that I can reschedule anytime this year due to my work schedule. Now with it being a week away, I'm stuck with trying to figure out if I can find a sleeper on a train somewhere else.


I am sorry to hear that your trip has been messed up. If I were you, I would try to book on the California Zephyr or the Empire Builder. Both are great routes. Don't try the Texas Eagle because it has no dining car or sightseer lounge car. One thing is certain, a long trip by coach is not a vacation.


----------



## Sidney (Jun 1, 2022)

bratkinson said:


> I'd cancel the entire trip and find some other means to get there, or reschedule the entire trip at some future date.
> 
> However, the reschedule must be done the first time you call and hopefully you could demand to get the same price tickets as you paid...regardless of the fare buckets, etc. You would likely have to talk with a supervisor.
> 
> ...


Totally unacceptable. How can this happen? No way would I downgrade to Coach on a two day trip. Demand DOUBLE your money back for this major inconvenience. What crap!yourmonbackQUOTE="Rasputin, post: 960688, member: 14855"]
I am sorry to hear that your trip has been messed up. If I were you, I would try to book on the California Zephyr or the Empire Builder. Both are great routes. Don't try the Texas Eagle because it has no dining car or sightseer lounge car. One thing is certain, a long trip by coach is not a vacation.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 1, 2022)

Question: in deciding who to downgrade from sleeper to coach, does Amtrak take into consideration when the reservations were made? (In a perfectly ordered world, someone who made their reservations 6 months in advance shouldn't lose their sleeper to someone who made their reservations 2 months in advance.)


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 1, 2022)

bratkinson said:


> I'd cancel the entire trip and find some other means to get there, or reschedule the entire trip at some future date.
> 
> However, the reschedule must be done the first time you call and hopefully you could demand to get the same price tickets as you paid...regardless of the fare buckets, etc. You would likely have to talk with a supervisor.
> 
> ...


In a situation like this, is calling CUSTOMER RELATIONS a better option than calling Customer Service to request a full refund or to rebook a round trip bedroom at some future date without having to pay more?


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Jun 1, 2022)

One week notice, that special even for Amtrak.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 1, 2022)

Stephen Gardner strikes again! This is an s show, and it isn't just happening on the SW Chief, it is happening on the Builder, too, at least.

That clown needs to canned ASAP.


----------



## yarrow (Jun 1, 2022)

call 1-800-usarail phone number and when you get an agent immediately ask for customer relations. believe they have limited hours but the agent should know what they are


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 1, 2022)

Customer Relations is there normal business hours, Eastern Time, Monday-Friday


----------



## greatwestern (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I just received a phone call and email from Amtrak stating that my round-trip reservation on the Southwest Chief next week has been downgraded from bedroom to coach accommodations both ways due to what was described as an equipment shortage. I was issued a refund in the amount of the difference between coach seats and bedrooms. Has anybody heard anything else like this? I was told that they removed a sleeping car from the Southwest Chief in both directions every day at least that week, and as far as I know, the Southwest Chief has been down to one sleeping car other than the Transdorm lately anyway.
> 
> I was not given any explanation, and I was wondering if anybody here has heard anything on the matter. I'm considering trying to book another train trip somewhere, but skeptical at this point, as I don't know if whatever train I book would have its sleepers removed too, not to mention lack of availability a week from now.


At least the OP received a phone call, all I received at 9pm (UK time) was an emailed sales receipt re my SWC trip LA to CHI on 12th June showing me that I was being given a refund. The attached pdf ticket showed that I was now booked coach, not Bedroom as originally ticketed in Sept last year.

On my dime I ended up speaking to an Amtrak agent who explained the changed consist situation and was going to pass me onto Customer Relations. I explained that my journey was originating in Emeryville anyway and that (whilst I was on hold) I saw there was accommodation available on the Zephyr for my date. He ended up booking me from EMY to CHI in a roomette on the CZ (transdorm) with me still retaining the refund for the SWC accommodation, so I in effect am only paying coach fare as "it was Amtrak's problem".

Not what I had planned and booked for, (I wanted to use different routes out and back), but, for me, better than the coach option.


----------



## greatwestern (Jun 2, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> Question: in deciding who to downgrade from sleeper to coach, does Amtrak take into consideration when the reservations were made? (In a perfectly ordered world, someone who made their reservations 6 months in advance shouldn't lose their sleeper to someone who made their reservations 2 months in advance.)


Don't think many would have booked before me.

I booked 22nd September 2021 for Bedroom travel on 12th June 2022 and I have been dumped !


----------



## NYP2NFL01 (Jun 2, 2022)

Just curious: has this type of downgrade happened on east coast overnight routes? From what I'm reading, this seems limited to west coast routes, so far!


----------



## amtrakp42 (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I just received a phone call and email from Amtrak stating that my round-trip reservation on the Southwest Chief next week has been downgraded from bedroom to coach accommodations both ways due to what was described as an equipment shortage. I was issued a refund in the amount of the difference between coach seats and bedrooms. Has anybody heard anything else like this? I was told that they removed a sleeping car from the Southwest Chief in both directions every day at least that week, and as far as I know, the Southwest Chief has been down to one sleeping car other than the Transdorm lately anyway.
> 
> I was not given any explanation, and I was wondering if anybody here has heard anything on the matter. I'm considering trying to book another train trip somewhere, but skeptical at this point, as I don't know if whatever train I book would have its sleepers removed too, not to mention lack of availability a week from now.


Most of western long distance sleepers are sold out. I got a trip bought in April at the lowest bucket on Zephyr Chi to Sac then on to Seattle. I checked for 2 months going thru every day on the app as Amsnag is gone. It takes a while but saved $1,000 on small bedroom compared to highest bucket.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 2, 2022)

amtrakp42 said:


> Most of western long distance sleepers are sold out.


Calling them sold out implies they are in revenue service, which seems doubtful with today's tiny trains.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 2, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Just curious: has this type of downgrade happened on east coast overnight routes? From what I'm reading, this seems limited to west coast routes, so far!



I am curious (and concerned, too) since I’m taking the CL both ways in a couple of weeks. I sprung for the luxury of a bedroom both ways since I hurt my leg and am using a cane right now and wanted my own bathroom.

If I’m told at the last minute that I have to sleep in coach, that throws the whole trip off and probably cancels it. I’m traveling with a friend on a long-awaited trip together, and would hate to not do it.

I am leery of booking anything on Amtrak anymore except the regionals, because there are always other options on this crowded east coast.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 2, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Just curious: has this type of downgrade happened on east coast overnight routes? From what I'm reading, this seems limited to west coast routes, so far!


This used to happen on 448 and 449 during the collosol multi-year Albany yard reconstruction. I had about four or five Boston - Chicago roomette reservations over several years cancelled sometimes on short notice when a stub train was operated between Albany and Boston. Fortunately, at that time the Boston sleeper was in the New York section and at least I was in a roomette between Albany and Chicago. And fortunately, I was never bustituted during any of those trips.


----------



## Steve4031 (Jun 2, 2022)

This happened to me on the CZ last summer from EMY to Chicago. GF and myself were rebooked two days later. Notified two days ahead of time. I was mad as hell and called Amtrak and ranted and raved and got nowhere. Did not even get a voucher. 

Call, but be prepared to walk away. This is really lousy for you. Sorry this happened.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jun 2, 2022)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Just curious: has this type of downgrade happened on east coast overnight routes? From what I'm reading, this seems limited to west coast routes, so far!


Another thread on this forum talks about this happening on the Cardinal as well.


----------



## TheCrescent (Jun 2, 2022)

Did you get a refund between the price you paid minus a coach ticket price on the date when you bought the ticket?

Or is the difference between the price you paid minus a coach ticket price now (likely a smaller refund)?

Airlines do the latter and it really ticks me off.


----------



## Sidney (Jun 2, 2022)

We booked a roomette on the CZ next month back in January from Chi-Sac.This trip is an integral part of a train,auto and fly two week trip. In all my years of Amtrak travel and hundreds of trips a cancelation like this has never happened. We will NOT do Coach. With the way things are at Amtrak,who knows.

All I know is I will be livid if they cancel my sleeper a week before our trip.


----------



## greatwestern (Jun 2, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Did you get a refund between the price you paid minus a coach ticket price on the date when you bought the ticket?
> 
> Or is the difference between the price you paid minus a coach ticket price now (likely a smaller refund)?
> 
> Airlines do the latter and it really ticks me off.


My original receipt showed the accommodation charge and the rail fare as individual items. I was refunded the total accommodation element as shown on that original receipt.


----------



## saxpower (Jun 2, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Another thread on this forum talks about this happening on the Cardinal as well.


Though I believe the conclusion of posters in that thread was the downgrade had to do with the loss of a Roomette with the switch from V I to V II


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 2, 2022)

greatwestern said:


> My original receipt showed the accommodation charge and the rail fare as individual items. I was refunded the total accommodation element as shown on that original receipt.


That seems reasonable. If Amtrak looked after coach passengers the way they do sleeper passengers it might not matter as much, but I find the Amtrak coach experience extremely unappealing on long trips. Too many potential headaches with a staff that tends to treat coach passengers like a burden anytime they ask for something.


----------



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 2, 2022)

I have submitted a complaint email to Amtrak, for what it's worth... not that I expect anything out of it. After doing some thinking, I don't think I'll be able to reschedule any time soon, so I may try to book another trip so the vacation is not a total bust. The only train that seems to have sleeper availability for that time frame seems to be the Capitol Limited. I'm tempted to give that a shot, because like other members have stated, I am not willing to take a cross-country trip in coach.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 2, 2022)

Before sending an angry email consider seeing if the Zephyr/Coast Starlight is available - I heard reports of some other people successfully rebooking to that for no additional charge though things are starting to fill up so may not be available on those dates.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> I have submitted a complaint email to Amtrak, for what it's worth... not that I expect anything out of it. After doing some thinking, I don't think I'll be able to reschedule any time soon, so I may try to book another trip so the vacation is not a total bust. The only train that seems to have sleeper availability for that time frame seems to be the Capitol Limited. I'm tempted to give that a shot, because like other members have stated, I am not willing to take a cross-country trip in coach.


It's aggravating to hear how the rug was pulled out so close to departure. I cannot excuse what has already happened but I do hope you can find another trip that works for you. I've never gotten anywhere with emails but you might want to call Customer Relations to calmly explain how this last minute change has thrown your plans into disarray and give them a chance to offer a retention voucher toward future travel. It's not ideal but it might help defray the cost of your next trip.


----------



## west point (Jun 2, 2022)

Write persons above Amtrak management. Got nice email from one. Speculation: It may be Amtrak is concentrating on Superliner returns. If running gear and COT&S will get SL cars back in service, the larger capacity SLX vs. single levels might be the thinking? Western trains appear to have a higher revenue yield. But this is all speculation. It does take 6 cars to fill out most SL trains vs 4 for east coast trains except LSL and Cardinal.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jun 2, 2022)

saxpower said:


> Though I believe the conclusion of posters in that thread was the downgrade had to do with the loss of a Roomette with the switch from V I to V II


Correct. But the question was “is this happenig on trains in the east” and the answer is yes. 

This = having your sleeper reservation cancelled by amtrak.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> I have submitted a complaint email to Amtrak, for what it's worth... not that I expect anything out of it. After doing some thinking, I don't think I'll be able to reschedule any time soon, so I may try to book another trip so the vacation is not a total bust. The only train that seems to have sleeper availability for that time frame seems to be the Capitol Limited. I'm tempted to give that a shot, because like other members have stated, I am not willing to take a cross-country trip in coach.


Do you know if this is just a sudden cancellation or is it due to the consist shift that begin a couple weeks ago and you just never got notified.


----------



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 2, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Do you know if this is just a sudden cancellation or is it due to the consist shift that begin a couple weeks ago and you just never got notified.


I'm not sure. The only information anybody could give me was that it was due to an equipment shortage, and that the car I was in (331 and 431) was unavailable.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 2, 2022)

Has this happened to anyone with less than a week’s notice?

I’m thinking of a backup plan—booking the same nights I would be in Chicago at a hotel (different chain so no conflict) in Fredericksburg, VA.

That way, if Amtrak says it’s cancelling my WAS-CHI trip, I would just go to FBG and enjoy those days there. If the trip to Chicago is on, I’d cancel the hotel reservation.

But if I won’t know til less than 24 hours ahead, I’d lose the hotel down payment.

I am possibly one of the least adventurous posters on here. I do not like surprises, and I like to have contingency plans for everything.

To have to start wondering if Amtrak is going to run a sleeper I’ve booked is ridiculous.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 2, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Before sending an angry email consider seeing if the Zephyr/Coast Starlight is available - I heard reports of some other people successfully rebooking to that for no additional charge though things are starting to fill up so may not be available on those dates.


Send the angry email even if you do rebook something. They pulled the rug out from under you at the last minute. The fact that they messed up equipment allocation, were running without enough protection equipment, or oversold was an Amtrak management failure and not yours. This kind of thing never happened prior to COVID, and they have over a year to adjust to the situation.

While you are at it write your Senators and Representatives. The clown show that is Amtrak's current executive management team have got to go.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> I'm not sure. The only information anybody could give me was that it was due to an equipment shortage, and that the car I was in (331 and 431) was unavailable.


When was your hoped for travel.


----------



## tricia (Jun 2, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Has this happened to anyone with less than a week’s notice?
> 
> I’m thinking of a backup plan—booking the same nights I would be in Chicago at a hotel (different chain so no conflict) in Fredericksburg, VA.
> 
> ...



Me too, on those last two sentences. This might be a last straw for me.


----------



## toddinde (Jun 2, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I just received a phone call and email from Amtrak stating that my round-trip reservation on the Southwest Chief next week has been downgraded from bedroom to coach accommodations both ways due to what was described as an equipment shortage. I was issued a refund in the amount of the difference between coach seats and bedrooms. Has anybody heard anything else like this? I was told that they removed a sleeping car from the Southwest Chief in both directions every day at least that week, and as far as I know, the Southwest Chief has been down to one sleeping car other than the Transdorm lately anyway.
> 
> I was not given any explanation, and I was wondering if anybody here has heard anything on the matter. I'm considering trying to book another train trip somewhere, but skeptical at this point, as I don't know if whatever train I book would have its sleepers removed too, not to mention lack of availability a week from now.


This has been happening on other trains around the system. I know it’s happened on the Capitol Limited. There really is no excuse for it.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 2, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> When was your hoped for travel.


In a post yesterday afternoon, the OP said he had just received a call from Amtrak canceling his round trip sleeper reservation on the Southwest Chief next week.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 2, 2022)

Gardner is accomplishing the impossible.

He is making Anderson look good.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 2, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> In a post yesterday afternoon, the OP said he had just received a call from Amtrak canceling his round trip sleeper reservation on the Southwest Chief next week.


Meant specific dates.


----------



## Rambling Robert (Jun 3, 2022)

I’ve had results with registered snail/mail signed return receipt. I always start with thank you / then what the problem is. Then the 2nd paragraph should be the resolution in about two sentences. Then another thank you.

In this case I’d write it to the VP of Amtrak marketing. cc Walsh and DOT Sec Pete.

I’d go for an airline bump., Reschedule the pair of tickets now as bedrooms PLUS Two future bedroom trips.

Going from purchasing two bedroom trips and getting Coach is like getting a phone call from the car dealer “Very sorry we are all out of Mercedes like you ordered but we’re going put you into a nice 26” Schwin bicycle.


----------



## JP1822 (Jun 3, 2022)

Amtrak removed the second sleeper from the Southwest Chief for the summer season, and replaced it with a Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper. At the time they made this inventory change, one would have hoped that they would have contacted folks booked in the second sleeper and got as many re-accommodated in the Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper (even though its just roomette space and reduced capacity overall). The Coast Starlight, notably, got an additional full Superliner sleeper for the summer season. Presumably the Southwest Chief's sleepers that it lost, The Capitol Limited also got a second full Superliner sleeper, likely from the Auto Train. Not sure if there's starting to be a net "gain" in the system, or just a "re-arranging of the deck chairs" from various trains.


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 3, 2022)

JP1822 said:


> Amtrak removed the second sleeper from the Southwest Chief for the summer season, and replaced it with a Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper. At the time they made this inventory change, one would have hoped that they would have contacted folks booked in the second sleeper and got as many re-accommodated in the Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper (even though its just roomette space and reduced capacity overall). The Coast Starlight, notably, got an additional full Superliner sleeper for the summer season. Presumably the Southwest Chief's sleepers that it lost, The Capitol Limited also got a second full Superliner sleeper, likely from the Auto Train. Not sure if there's starting to be a net "gain" in the system, or just a "re-arranging of the deck chairs" from various trains.


Last fall when they dropped the 1132/1432 car/ line numbers from the starlight they gave me a call in August (my travel date was in November) to let me know they would be switching my room into a valid car. 

I would assume staffing issues might be part of the reason pax aren’t communicated to sooner. Either way, I’d be disappointed as well if I was in a bedroom and was given no choice but coach.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 3, 2022)

Who should those with bedroom reservations call to confirm that that their reservations haven't been changed due to "equipment shortages?"


----------



## Bonser (Jun 3, 2022)

JP1822 said:


> Amtrak removed the second sleeper from the Southwest Chief for the summer season, and replaced it with a Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper. At the time they made this inventory change, one would have hoped that they would have contacted folks booked in the second sleeper and got as many re-accommodated in the Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper (even though its just roomette space and reduced capacity overall). The Coast Starlight, notably, got an additional full Superliner sleeper for the summer season. Presumably the Southwest Chief's sleepers that it lost, The Capitol Limited also got a second full Superliner sleeper, likely from the Auto Train. Not sure if there's starting to be a net "gain" in the system, or just a "re-arranging of the deck chairs" from various trains.


Sounds like Amtrak is trying to give the shaft to the SW again.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 3, 2022)

Amtrak but all they'll say is don't worry be happy. The call center won't know about removing cars from a consist any sooner than the passengers getting notified.

Best guidance is if you are in the 30 car on any Western LD (31 on CZ), you are probably safe. If you are in the 31 car (32 on the CZ), watch out!


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 3, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Sounds like Amtrak is trying to give the shaft to the SW again.


Happened on the Builder, too.


----------



## ShiningTimeStL (Jun 3, 2022)

I just searched on YouTube, and it looks like as of two days ago trains 3 and 4 are back to standard capacity with seven superliners and even a bag. Only ten days ago they were running with just six cars, no bag. They had a number of private cars come on and off during that time, at one point even having three in tow. Did they take off a sleeper just to accommodate for all the private varnish? I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there was a motive power or engineer shortage to answer for that. At least it looks like thing may be looking up again. The Chief _appears _to be back in pre-pandemic condition. Fingers crossed.


----------



## F900ElCapitan (Jun 3, 2022)

This happened to me on the CS late last summer. We were in the transdorm 40 car and it was removed. After they blocked all of the rooms needed for the crew in the remaining two sleepers, there were no more rooms left. They never did call and I didn’t find out until I called to verify when my reservation couldn’t be seen about two weeks prior. They were happy to put me in coach or business, but wouldn’t budge on the room. I then asked if they’d simply reroute me, but they wouldn’t even do that for what I paid or at a similar bucket level and instead charged me the going rate, which of course was high bucket. I was not happy!


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 3, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Amtrak but all they'll say is don't worry be happy. The call center won't know about removing cars from a consist any sooner than the passengers getting notified.
> 
> Best guidance is if you are in the 30 car on any Western LD (31 on CZ), you are probably safe. If you are in the 31 car (32 on the CZ), watch out!


Doesn’t the zephyr normally run with the 40 (crew dorm), 31 and 32 cars normally?


----------



## F900ElCapitan (Jun 3, 2022)

ShiningTimeStL said:


> I just searched on YouTube, and it looks like as of two days ago trains 3 and 4 are back to standard capacity with seven superliners and even a bag. Only ten days ago they were running with just six cars, no bag. They had a number of private cars come on and off during that time, at one point even having three in tow. Did they take off a sleeper just to accommodate for all the private varnish? I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there was a motive power or engineer shortage to answer for that. At least it looks like thing may be looking up again. The Chief _appears _to be back in pre-pandemic condition. Fingers crossed.


Sort of, they traded a full sleeper for the transdorm and added a coach, which is why the OP is having this issue. Pre-Covid, they ran the transdorm AND two full sleepers.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 3, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Doesn’t the zephyr normally run with the 40 (crew dorm), 31 and 32 cars normally?


Yeah, but the lowest sleeper and the transdorm appear to be relatively safe. It is the second sleeper line they seem to be removing when they have to pull a sleeper fairly consistently, which is why I said 31 (32 on the CZ) is the endangered one. I hesitated to call out 40 as the universal number for the transdorm, as they tend to use 32 for it on the Builder, though the Starlight and SW Chief it is 40 (when those trains have those. The transdorm assignments seem all over the place these days).


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 3, 2022)

F900ElCapitan said:


> Sort of, they traded a full sleeper for the transdorm and added a coach, which is why the OP is having this issue. Pre-Covid, they ran the transdorm AND two full sleepers.


Confirm that. I just looked at You Tube and 11 days ago at Buena Park it was 2 standard sleepers, diner, lounge, coach and coach/bag. Someone bagged it this morning at Fullerton and it was baggage, transdorm, standard sleeper, diner, lounge, 3 standard coaches.

Wonder how many roomettes they put into revenue service in the transdorm to re-accommodate passengers in and why the OP could not have been downgraded at least to a roomette. I know the usual is 4, but there are always lots of empty rooms in the transdorms. Of course, they could not intrude on the soil sacred to the crew no matter how empty roomettes there are!


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 3, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Confirm that. I just looked at You Tube and 11 days ago at Buena Park it was 2 standard sleepers, diner, lounge, coach and coach/bag. Someone bagged it this morning at Fullerton and it was baggage, transdorm, standard sleeper, diner, lounge, 3 standard coaches.
> 
> Wonder how many roomettes they put into revenue service in the transdorm to re-accommodate passengers in and why the OP could not have been downgraded at least to a roomette. I know the usual is 4, but there are always lots of empty rooms in the transdorms. Of course, they could not intrude on the soil sacred to the crew no matter how empty roomettes there are!


Trans dorms have two more roomettes than a regular sleeper - and the replaced sleeper housed the crew so it would be either the same amount of roomettes or one or two extra depending on whether they kept the second SCA and if the third coach and full baggage comes with an extra coach attendant. Basically the loss of inventory is the bedroom inventory for the replaced car. I have heard of them re-accommodating displaced bedroom passengers in roomettes if available and I've also heard of them giving people doing CHI-LAX a combination of the Zephyr to the Starlight in bedrooms for no additional cost. But of course it depends on availability.

Sounds like in this case the IT side didn't send an immediate notification out to everyone when the change occurred in the system for the summer consist and by the time the OP got notified everything is basically sold out. I think at the end of the day the major faux pax here is the IT side - they need to get a better system in place to notify people immediately...though perhaps one reason they haven't yet is to avoid the call center getting slammed all at once for a summer long change. The app can be helpful as you'll get a "Cancelled" in the app immediately which can give you advanced notice to contact the call center and give you a better chance to snag a change. I'm guessing they are only notifying this in groups of a week or so out to avoid the call center getting slammed - but people who saw it in the app immediately would have been able to call in and get it changed.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 4, 2022)

There would have been 6 to 8 OBS crew on that train, excluding the SCA who has room 1 in the 30 car, depending on whether or not there was a cooks helper and/or a second diner service attendant or not. That leaves 8 to 10 roomettes, ignoring the mid-car Sacred Territory boundary.

The OP was automatically re-accommodated, although in coach. A cancellation is different than re-accommodation, I know, both have happened to me. They generally do not cancel then re-accommodate, they do one or the other. Yeah, if they cancel you these days you have to call to get it straightened away and get back on a train, and it is best to call early, but as I said, it is either one or the other. Your premise is the roomette passengers in the 31 car actually got first crack at the sleeper before a bedroom passenger in the re-accommodation list. Since the train was not running a transdorm before, there were likely no passengers at all manifested in the "40" when the swap took place. And there would have been roomettes enough to accommodate all of the bedroom passengers and then some, with at least 8 roomettes in the transdorm not needed by the crew and 5 bedrooms in the 31. So, yes, there may have been an IT problem and did like for like (roomette to roomette) before they did the much more expensive bedrooms, which I would consider a pretty serious oversight, but Amtrak IT is a clown car so I can readily believe that. They also could have just limited the number of revenue pax in transdorm to the traditional 4 roomettes and the OP drew the short straw for the 5th bedroom. Ignoring the fact that there are 8 roomettes in the rear end of the car, and even if there were 10 crew roomettes needed, with 2 required in the aft end, there still would have been 6 available. Unless Amtrak prevents the horror of a crew member being booked next door to a revenue passenger.

Maximum coach attendent staffing these days is one per 1 1/2 Superliner coaches. The T&E crew generally handles whatever needs to be done on the train side for the baggage car.


----------



## amtrakp42 (Jun 4, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Trans dorms have two more roomettes than a regular sleeper - and the replaced sleeper housed the crew so it would be either the same amount of roomettes or one or two extra depending on whether they kept the second SCA and if the third coach and full baggage comes with an extra coach attendant. Basically the loss of inventory is the bedroom inventory for the replaced car. I have heard of them re-accommodating displaced bedroom passengers in roomettes if available and I've also heard of them giving people doing CHI-LAX a combination of the Zephyr to the Starlight in bedrooms for no additional cost. But of course it depends on availability.
> 
> Sounds like in this case the IT side didn't send an immediate notification out to everyone when the change occurred in the system for the summer consist and by the time the OP got notified everything is basically sold out. I think at the end of the day the major faux pax here is the IT side - they need to get a better system in place to notify people immediately...though perhaps one reason they haven't yet is to avoid the call center getting slammed all at once for a summer long change. The app can be helpful as you'll get a "Cancelled" in the app immediately which can give you advanced notice to contact the call center and give you a better chance to snag a change. I'm guessing they are only notifying this in groups of a week or so out to avoid the call center getting slammed - but people who saw it in the app immediately would have been able to call in and get it changed.


Won't be much changing to Zephyr as lots of days are sold sleeper and coach on the app this summer. I just checked every day now thru September on Zephyr Chi r
To Sacramento.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 4, 2022)

We have bedroom reservations on the SWC car 431 the week of 6/27 with a return on SWC car 331 the week of 7/11. (For what it’s worth, these reservations were made in December 2021.) So far, we have not been notified that our bedroom reservations have been downgraded. Rather than wait until two weeks before we are to leave to be notified, who should we contact now to find out if we’ll still have bedrooms for our travel dates?


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 4, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> We have bedroom reservations on the SWC car 431 the week of 6/27 with a return on SWC car 331 the week of 7/11. (For what it’s worth, these reservations were made in December 2021.) So far, we have not been notified that our bedroom reservations have been downgraded. Rather than wait until two weeks before we are to leave to be notified, who should we contact now to find out if we’ll still have bedrooms for our travel dates?


The consist could change again in the fall.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 4, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> We have bedroom reservations on the SWC car 431 the week of 6/27 with a return on SWC car 331 the week of 7/11. (For what it’s worth, these reservations were made in December 2021.) So far, we have not been notified that our bedroom reservations have been downgraded. Rather than wait until two weeks before we are to leave to be notified, who should we contact now to find out if we’ll still have bedrooms for our travel dates?


Do you have the Amtrak app? If you’ve been affected it will probably show up on that. Call 1-800-USA-RAIL and they can check for you.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 4, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> There would have been 6 to 8 OBS crew on that train, excluding the SCA who has room 1 in the 30 car, depending on whether or not there was a cooks helper and/or a second diner service attendant or not. That leaves 8 to 10 roomettes, ignoring the mid-car Sacred Territory boundary.
> 
> The OP was automatically re-accommodated, although in coach. A cancellation is different than re-accommodation, I know, both have happened to me. They generally do not cancel then re-accommodate, they do one or the other. Yeah, if they cancel you these days you have to call to get it straightened away and get back on a train, and it is best to call early, but as I said, it is either one or the other. Your premise is the roomette passengers in the 31 car actually got first crack at the sleeper before a bedroom passenger in the re-accommodation list. Since the train was not running a transdorm before, there were likely no passengers at all manifested in the "40" when the swap took place. And there would have been roomettes enough to accommodate all of the bedroom passengers and then some, with at least 8 roomettes in the transdorm not needed by the crew and 5 bedrooms in the 31. So, yes, there may have been an IT problem and did like for like (roomette to roomette) before they did the much more expensive bedrooms, which I would consider a pretty serious oversight, but Amtrak IT is a clown car so I can readily believe that. They also could have just limited the number of revenue pax in transdorm to the traditional 4 roomettes and the OP drew the short straw for the 5th bedroom. Ignoring the fact that there are 8 roomettes in the rear end of the car, and even if there were 10 crew roomettes needed, with 2 required in the aft end, there still would have been 6 available. Unless Amtrak prevents the horror of a crew member being booked next door to a revenue passenger.
> 
> Maximum coach attendent staffing these days is one per 1 1/2 Superliner coaches. The T&E crew generally handles whatever needs to be done on the train side for the baggage car.


So they went from 1 coach and 1 bag coach to 3 full coaches so I suspect they added a coach attendent. If so that means the switch to a transdorm means either the train had the same number roomettes as the previous consist or one extra. The latter would spend on whether the transdorm has a separate SCA or if one SCA is handling both. Almost positive they are selling every roomette in the trans dorm not occupied by crew. Most of the misplaced people I have heard about have been in the axed bedrooms so I suspect the “like accommodation” got booked first roomette to roomette and then if there were some left then they offered those to displaced bedroom occupants. What I don’t know is what the original intended summer consist was - IE did they book for a transdorm AND two sleepers or just two sleepers and then decided to sub the transdorm.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 4, 2022)

They have not staffed one attendant per coach in many years on the western LDs. The ratio is 1 attendant to 1.5 to 2 coaches. Two attendants for 3 coaches would be normal and that is the figure I used.

As for like to like, I agree that is highly possible, but a bad idea. The passengers in the much more expensive bedrooms should get first crack at remaining sleeper accommodations.

As to what their intended equipment plan was, who can say. But from all indications, whatever plan they had turned into melted down cluster.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 4, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Do you have the Amtrak app? If you’ve been affected it will probably show up on that. Call 1-800-USA-RAIL and they can check for you.


We called the Amtrak number and “Julie” confirmed that our SWC bedroom reservations are still in the system as originally made: departing LAX in car 431 during the week of June 27th and departing CHI in car 331 during the week of July 11th.

After listening to “Julie’s” confirmation, we didn’t bother to ask to speak to a live agent since the agent would only repeat the same information that “Julie” had. Unless there is someone in higher authority we could contact to verify whether or not our reservations are subject to being downgraded between now and the last week of June, we are going on the assumption that we’ll have the bedrooms we requested.

We will continue to provide updates regarding any communications we receive from Amtrak about our reservations being downgraded.

Eric & Pat


----------



## F900ElCapitan (Jun 4, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> We called the Amtrak number and “Julie” confirmed that our SWC bedroom reservations are still in the system as originally made: departing LAX in car 431 during the week of June 27th and departing CHI in car 331 during the week of July 11th.
> 
> After listening to “Julie’s” confirmation, we didn’t bother to ask to speak to a live agent since the agent would only repeat the same information that “Julie” had. Unless there is someone in higher authority we could contact to verify whether or not our reservations are subject to being downgraded between now and the last week of June, we are going on the assumption that we’ll have the bedrooms we requested.
> 
> ...


The consist can definitely change between now and your travel date…but if it were me and knowing the current consist, I’d be worried enough to call the highest 800 number you can (AGR or priority are best). It won’t hurt to talk to an agent and confirm your reservation.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 4, 2022)

We will be traveling less than a week before the 4th of July. We traveled at this same time last year while COVID was still keeping a lot of people from riding Amtrak. Even so, No. 4 was sold out when it left LAX. Ditto from Kansas City to Chicago. We expect it to be even more crowded this year what with the mask mandates lifted and gas prices where they are.


----------



## Jay Aitchsee (Jun 4, 2022)

In March, I booked a room on the Cardinal from CIN to CHI on June 2nd. On May 28, I was downgraded to coach and the room fee was refunded. I kept watching the reservations and a room for the 2nd opened on May 31. I called and booked it for the original price I had paid.
I discovered the downgrade when I checked the mobile app and it was flagged with "service unavailable" and the QR was removed. I received no other notification. When I called, the staff had no clue, but decided in conference that this was due to an "equipment change." I thought perhaps it was due to checking the app in the midst of an equipment change, but I don't know.


----------



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 4, 2022)

Well, I ended up booking a trip on the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington DC, for better or worse, so my brother and I can have some sort of summer train trip. Due to him being in college and me not being able to reschedule a vacation from work very easily, next week is about our only opportunity for vacation. Fingers crossed I'll be able to do another solo trip on something west-coast either this fall or sometime next year. It won't be the same, with the CL not having traditional dining, and no lounge-OBS car, but oh well. Hopefully they don't decide to kick a sleeper off the Capitol Limited next.

I still haven't heard any response from Amtrak after submitting the complaint letter, although I'm not really expecting one. For those wondering, the scheduled SWC trips that got affected for me were a departure from Chicago on June 8, and a LAX departure back to Chicago on June 10. I was informed that this equipment shortage affected all SWC trains both directions for at least that week, although I wasn't told anything other than that. I would second what others have said about periodically calling to confirm your upcoming reservations.


----------



## amtrakp42 (Jun 5, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Do you have the Amtrak app? If you’ve been affected it will probably show up on that. Call 1-800-USA-RAIL and they can check for you.


If a rewards member, that phone number usually works much better. It seems they may be the more experienced.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 5, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Well, I ended up booking a trip on the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington DC, for better or worse, so my brother and I can have some sort of summer train trip.


I am glad to hear that you and your brother were able to put together a trip after all. It has been disappointing to read of multiple instances of Amtrak canceling reservations. Hope you have a great trip and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Trollopian (Jun 5, 2022)

hoosierrailfan said:


> Well, I ended up booking a trip on the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington DC, for better or worse, so my brother and I can have some sort of summer train trip. Due to him being in college and me not being able to reschedule a vacation from work very easily, next week is about our only opportunity for vacation. Fingers crossed I'll be able to do another solo trip on something west-coast either this fall or sometime next year. It won't be the same, with the CL not having traditional dining, and no lounge-OBS car, but oh well. Hopefully they don't decide to kick a sleeper off the Capitol Limited next.



The Capitol Limited is an underrated route, not spectacular like the Western trains but extraordinarily beautiful between Pittsburgh and Harper's Ferry. You'll have lots of daylight to see the sun rise over the faded industrial glory of the Monongahela Valley and then slip into remarkably unspoiled ride next to the Youghiogheny. (The Mon and the Yough, to locals.) Chicago and Washington are both interesting and I'd lobby for a 24-hour stopover in Pittsburgh too. See post at https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/survey-the-10-most-beautiful-cities-in-the-us.80585/post-934702. Yeah, we Yinzers never get tired of boosting our town.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 5, 2022)

IMPORTANT UPDATE

We called Amtrak again this morning (Sunday, June 5th) and this time asked to speak to an agent. (To do so, we had to request a “call back,” which we received in about 15 minutes.) We spoke with “James” who initially told us that, yes, there had been some changes made to the Southwest Chief sleeping cars, but our bedroom reservations were still good as we’d been transferred to a different car. We thanked him and ended the call. Then a few minutes later “James” called back to say that that the sleeper on SWC No. 4 that we’d been reassigned to had been removed from the train on the date we’d planned to travel, and that Amtrak couldn’t downgrade us because the train was sold out! Needless to say, we had no choice but to cancel our trip. (At least we didn’t have to wait until two weeks before our departure date to learn that Amtrak couldn’t honor the reservations that we’d made and paid for last December!)

So far, we have not been contacted by Amtrak to acknowledge that our reservations were cancelled, to apologize for the inconvenience we were caused, or to let us know if and when we can expect to receive a full refund for the cancelled reservations. (But since this is a Sunday, they might not have a full staff on hand, so we probably won’t hear anything until tomorrow.)

Our connecting trains had been paid for using travel points, so we are now trying to get through to the Guest Rewards agent to cancel those reservations, too. We’ll also have to cancel our hotel and rental car reservations.

We’re now looking to reschedule our trip in the Fall, depending upon the availability of SWC bedrooms. In the meantime, we plan to write some letters to make our dissatisfaction known and possibly obtain special consideration for future Amtrak travel.

We’ll provide updates on how we make out.

Eric & Pat


----------



## alpha3 (Jun 5, 2022)

God-dammme. I love trains but Amtrak is getting more and more mickey-mouse. Who is doing their IT? High school seniors? Is upper management now composed of college interns conducting wild experiments?

What a shame all of this is.


----------



## greatwestern (Jun 5, 2022)

Whatever the reason for not being able to honour reservations (and as I said in an earlier post mine was booked on 22nd Sept 2021 for travel on 12th June 2022) I can see no reason why passengers are being advised so close to their departure dates.

I have seen for some weeks now that the SWC consist had not included 2 normal sleepers and this seems to be why I lost my accommodation. Despite this I got notified just 11 days before I was due to travel and even then the manner in which I was advised (an emailed amended receipt and a revised ticket) was totally unacceptable. Nowhere was there any explanation and I literally had to dig through the document to notice that I had been downgraded to coach.

My bookings were integral to a holiday where there is little to no scope for flexibility - I would imagine that most people booking from overseas would be in a similar position. In effect I could have been left in a situation where I would have had to book replacement (expensive) flights and hotels (abandoning the real purpose of my holiday) if I had not been able to set up an alternative (but not 100% acceptable) plan by phoning an agent from the UK.

I got lucky, within a few hours even the alternative that I "negotiated" would not have been available. (Hopefully I am not speaking too soon - there is still time for that to be scuppered).


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 5, 2022)

alpha3 said:


> God-dammme. I love trains but Amtrak is getting more and more mickey-mouse. Who is doing their IT? High school seniors? Is upper management now composed of college interns conducting wild experiments?
> 
> What a shame all of this is.


I love to travel by train. I have done so since the 1950s. I have had many enjoyable trips on Amtrak and VIA and pre-Amtrak and pre-VIA. Some, when there has been a disruption, have turned out to be real adventures. But in recent years I have come not to love Amtrak. It is merely the gauntlet that I have to pass through in order to travel by train.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 5, 2022)

Very sorry to hear that. Up until recently, this kind of thing almost never happened, now it is suddenly common.

When you call tomorrow, call during east coast business hours and ask for Customer Relations. They can do the most for you.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 5, 2022)

greatwestern said:


> I love to travel by train. I have done so since the 1950s. I have had many enjoyable trips on Amtrak and VIA and pre-Amtrak and pre-VIA. But in recent years I have come not to love Amtrak. It is merely the gauntlet that I have to pass through in order to travel by train.





zephyr17 said:


> Up until recently, this kind of thing almost never happened, now it is suddenly common.



Yesterday, a friend told me she was thinking of taking a long-distance Amtrak trip and what did I think. For the first time ever, I said don’t take Amtrak right now except for short distances in the northeast. I told her they’re downgrading or cancelling people's reservations with hardly any notice, and the whole thing seems to be falling apart. I told her not to take Amtrak til it has a new CEO.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 5, 2022)

We got through to Guest Rewards and were able to cancel our two reservations made with travel points without penalty. Also, we received refund receipts via e-mail within minutes. We're still waiting for a refund receipt from our LD reservations. (This might take longer because there is cash involved.)


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 5, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> IMPORTANT UPDATE
> 
> We called _Amtrak_ again this morning (Sunday, June 5th) and this time asked to speak to an agent. (To do so, we had to request a “call back,” which we received in about 15 minutes.) We spoke with “James” who initially told us that, yes, there had been some changes made to the _Southwest Chief _sleeping cars, but our bedroom reservations were still good as we’d been transferred to a different car. We thanked him and ended the call. Then a few minutes later “James” called back to say that that the sleeper on _SWC No. 4_ that we’d been reassigned to had been removed from the train on the date we’d planned to travel, and that *Amtrak couldn’t downgrade us because the train was sold out!* Needless to say, we had no choice but to cancel our trip. (At least we didn’t have to wait until two weeks before our departure date to learn that Amtrak couldn’t honor the reservations that we’d made and paid for last December!)
> 
> ...


Well, Thank God that you called. I will admit that initially, I thought that you were being a bit paranoid about this but I did not realize just how far downhill things had gone. I wonder when you would have received notice from Amtrak had you not taken the initiative to call them. Perhaps by the time you would have heard from them, some of your other trip reservations would have become non-refundable creating some further problems to untangle.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Jun 6, 2022)

Well the SWC train that left Sunday night, the 5th of June from Dodge City to Chicago. Was late of course, left Monday morning due to delays. This train did have a full baggage car, crew dorm, one sleeper, dinner, lounge, two coaches, one baggage coach.

Interestingly the crew dorm was a new rebuild.

I do recall two full sleepers a few weeks back and no baggage car.

So the why the OP lost his bedroom is known.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 6, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Well, Thank God that you called. I will admit that initially, I thought that you were being a bit paranoid about this but I did not realize just how far downhill things had gone. I wonder when you would have received notice from Amtrak had you not taken the initiative to call them. Perhaps by the time you would have heard from them, some of your other trip reservations would have become non-refundable creating some further problems to untangle.



The reservations system side of the business definitely needs to be an area of focus for improvement. Obviously the operational decisions to alter the consist are what they are and these type of things have to be expected to a certain point and I suppose they did what they did in order to be able to resume daily service. Having said all that there has to be a better way to notify people and give them opportunities to make other arrangements far earlier than one week. I can understand the desire not to overwhelm the call center by not notifying everyone for the entire summer at the same time immediately when the change is made but perhaps do it in larger waves so people have at least 3-4 weeks notice. And obviously the more experienced riders that notice it in the app are all going to call immediately and address it even if the change is 2 months away. And newer riders who may not know the system as well are put at a major disadvantage in securing an alternate slot that may be open.


----------



## hoosierrailfan (Jun 6, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> The reservations system side of the business definitely needs to be an area of focus for improvement. Obviously the operational decisions to alter the consist are what they are and these type of things have to be expected to a certain point and I suppose they did what they did in order to be able to resume daily service. Having said all that there has to be a better way to notify people and give them opportunities to make other arrangements far earlier than one week. I can understand the desire not to overwhelm the call center by not notifying everyone for the entire summer at the same time immediately when the change is made but perhaps do it in larger waves so people have at least 3-4 weeks notice. And obviously the more experienced riders that notice it in the app are all going to call immediately and address it even if the change is 2 months away. And newer riders who may not know the system as well are put at a major disadvantage in securing an alternate slot that may be open.


I completely agree. The biggest issue I had with this ordeal was the fact that I was only given a week's notice. Had I been notified earlier, I may have been able to book something on another train to LA a few days earlier or later. Speaking for myself, I don't have the app, but haven't really made a habit of double-checking reservations very much, having never experienced something like this with Amtrak before. I usually just print the e-ticket when I make the reservation and take it with me on the day that I travel. It makes me wonder if anybody will show up at the station on their departure date expecting a room and end up being told that they have been downgraded to a coach seat.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 6, 2022)

I am ready to pull my hair out! I’ve been trying to book a room from the west coast to Galesburg in mid December. We normally travel Fullerton to Gbb and I had a room booked twice this afternoon at $1576 12/15 and 12/13. I got all the way to credit card verification with my Amex card. I typed in the code Amex texted me, the Amtrak site went into the processing mode and came back with “a part of your reservation is no longer available”. Upon re entering all my dates one of the days the fare went up $300 and another time the website wanted me to buy 2 bedrooms at over $5000. I didn’t think to take screen shots.

We‘re flexible so I thought let’s try the Zephyr, we have family in the Bay Area so fly up the day before see them and than take the train through the Rockies home. The exact same thing happened !!!

Dec 18th had an OK fare of $1473 from EMY to GBB. I typed in all 4 of our names and info again for the 4th time and it said “ a part of your reservation is no longer available“ I redid it again and it suggested 2 bedrooms for us at $4643. I took screen shots this time. I’m ticked I’ve spent 2 hours trying to give Amtrak $1500 plus with no luck.

Thinking about it, it seems everything is in order until the actual ticket and room number is about to be issued then system crashes. Maybe these trains will only run with one family room in December. Frustrating I’ve never seen it this bad.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 6, 2022)

Probably they do only have one Family room available on each train. There is only one per standard sleeper and none in transdorms. Since the trains are likely only running one standard sleeper, that means just one family bedroom.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 6, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Yesterday, a friend told me she was thinking of taking a long-distance Amtrak trip and what did I think. For the first time ever, I said don’t take Amtrak right now except for short distances in the northeast. I told her they’re downgrading or cancelling people's reservations with hardly any notice, and the whole thing seems to be falling apart. I told her not to take Amtrak til it has a new CEO.



I think better times are on the way - but will take a little more time to get there. I think this is largely still getting out of the pandemic hell. Unfortunately I think the reservation system side of the company is not well setup for these types of changes like swapping a regular sleeper to a transition - they need to come up with a better way to deal with this type of thing - or limit the available inventory to begin with until they know what the consist is going to be able to be.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 6, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I am ready to pull my hair out! I’ve been trying to book a room from the west coast to Galesburg in mid December. We normally travel Fullerton to Gbb and I had a room booked twice this afternoon at $1576 12/15 and 12/13. I got all the way to credit card verification with my Amex card. I typed in the code Amex texted me, the Amtrak site went into the processing mode and came back with “a part of your reservation is no longer available”. Upon re entering all my dates one of the days the fare went up $300 and another time the website wanted me to buy 2 bedrooms at over $5000. I didn’t think to take screen shots.
> 
> We‘re flexible so I thought let’s try the Zephyr, we have family in the Bay Area so fly up the day before see them and than take the train through the Rockies home. The exact same thing happened !!!
> 
> ...


Yeah the website is a mess - I usually go to my local station when I want to make a reservation that doesn’t involve points. Of course that only works when you have. A station nearby.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 6, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> I think better times are on the way - but will take a little more time to get there.


Are Amtrak brass saying a full length Chief will return soon? Are they saying repaired rolling stock is about to be released? I hope you are right but everything seems to be getting worse at the moment.



lordsigma said:


> Yeah the website is a mess - I usually go to my local station when I want to make a reservation that doesn’t involve points. Of course that only works when you have. A station nearby.


I have a nearby station but it is only open at night in an area with no parking and no public transportation during the hours of operation. So even for people like me this is not a valid solution.


----------



## John Bredin (Jun 7, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Are Amtrak brass saying a full length Chief will return soon? Are they saying repaired rolling stock is about to be released? I hope you are right but everything seems to be getting worse at the moment.


The lengths of most long distance trains can be seen on railcams, including free ones on YouTube. Of late, the Capitol Ltd. has had three coaches (including a baggage car AND a baggage-coach), the combined Lake Shore Limited has had five coaches, and the Southwest Chief has had three coaches. There's cars coming from somewhere.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 7, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Are Amtrak brass saying a full length Chief will return soon? Are they saying repaired rolling stock is about to be released? I hope you are right but everything seems to be getting worse at the moment.


For the most part it seems that Amtrak brass hardly ever says anything. Unless there is some site that I have not found yet, we have to guess what they are thinking and what their intentions are. We end up having to ascribe motives and intentions to them.


----------



## jis (Jun 7, 2022)

John Bredin said:


> The lengths of most long distance trains can be seen on railcams, including free ones on YouTube. Of late, the Capitol Ltd. has had three coaches (including a baggage car AND a baggage-coach), the combined Lake Shore Limited has had five coaches, and the Southwest Chief has had three coaches. There's cars coming from somewhere.


The Cap should be getting another Sleeper too for a total of two Sleepers, if it has not already got it.


----------



## tomfuller (Jun 7, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I am ready to pull my hair out! I’ve been trying to book a room from the west coast to Galesburg in mid December. We normally travel Fullerton to Gbb and I had a room booked twice this afternoon at $1576 12/15 and 12/13. I got all the way to credit card verification with my Amex card. I typed in the code Amex texted me, the Amtrak site went into the processing mode and came back with “a part of your reservation is no longer available”. Upon re entering all my dates one of the days the fare went up $300 and another time the website wanted me to buy 2 bedrooms at over $5000. I didn’t think to take screen shots.
> 
> We‘re flexible so I thought let’s try the Zephyr, we have family in the Bay Area so fly up the day before see them and than take the train through the Rockies home. The exact same thing happened !!!
> 
> ...


One trick that you might try would be to book the sleeper of your choice from EMY to Omaha and then move to coach for the remainder of the trip to GBB.
The eastbound Zephyr is in Omaha about dawn and is in Galesburg about noon.


----------



## TheCrescent (Jun 7, 2022)

in Amtrak’s defense (as infuriating as downgrades are):

1. Airlines switch planes and downgrade people. And I have been downgraded a few times on airlines from paid first class to coach, with only a pittance of a refund.

2. I took Amtrak on an overnight trip in the 1980s and our sleeping car wasn’t attached to the train, so we were downgraded. We found out when the train arrived at our station.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 7, 2022)

With a 4 and 2 year old we’re trying to get the room all the way, but that’s a great idea. Same thing is happening this morning. Family room shows on website but then I pay for it and system figures out theres no room to assign. 5 different dates on both SWC and the CZ. I even called Amex to see if issue was on their side, they said no card has not been declined.

If Amtrak didn’t have a zero refund policy on sleepers I’d try to buy a bogus ticket tomorrow just to see if anything works at this point then cancel it. I know there’s work arounds and I could voucher it out but what a pain. How much is Amtrak loosing with normal customers who causally will look and move on after dealing with something like this.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 7, 2022)

jis said:


> The Cap should be getting another Sleeper too for a total of two Sleepers, if it has not already got it.





TheCrescent said:


> ...we were downgraded. We found out when the train arrived at our station.



My Capitol Limited sleeper car numbers for my trip in a couple of weeks are 2901 and 3001.

Are they in the consist yet? Or should I just assume Amtrak will try to dump me in coach with a bad leg and a cane overnight?

I have booked an ALX hotel as a backup and would have to give up the trip and just extend a stay in ALX. Not the worst thing—I love ALX—but a bit hot in the summer.

However, if the sleeper is there, I need to cancel the hotel before 24 hours to not lose the deposit.

I am checking my upcoming trips in my AGR account every day, and I did find the well-hidden place where it shows you the accommodation, and so far it still shows I’m in the the sleepers.

But has anyone recently (the post above was talking about in the 1980s, when you’d think they would have been more efficient than now) had them cancel the sleeper that same day?


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 7, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> 1. Airlines switch planes and downgrade people. And I have been downgraded a few times on airlines from paid first class to coach, with only a pittance of a refund.


I've been downgraded on paid first class as well but two or three hours in coach is a lot less annoying than two or three days in coach. If I was downgraded for an intercontinental flight I would be just as annoyed and would expect to be rerouted in the same cabin or put up in a hotel at the absolute minimum.


----------



## fillyjonk (Jun 7, 2022)

yeah, the website is a mess. I just purchased my Thanksgiving tickets (figured I'd better if I wanted a shot at a roomette, seeing as I travel on the miniEagle that only has one sleeping car). Had to reboot the site after entering my login info because it hung up on the animated "loading" page for 10 minutes.

also finding stuff can be difficult, and it's not always clear "oh you're missing required information" when it just won't let you advance.

at least I got my roommette for literally the only times convenient for me to travel for turkey day


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 7, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> yeah, the website is a mess. I just purchased my Thanksgiving tickets (figured I'd better if I wanted a shot at a roomette, seeing as I travel on the miniEagle that only has one sleeping car). Had to reboot the site after entering my login info because it hung up on the animated "loading" page for 10 minutes.
> 
> also finding stuff can be difficult, and it's not always clear "oh you're missing required information" when it just won't let you advance.
> 
> at least I got my roommette for literally the only times convenient for me to travel for turkey day


Hope the Eaglete at least has Traditional Dining and it's Sightseer Lounge back by then, but wouldn't bet the House on it!


----------



## fillyjonk (Jun 7, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Hope the Eaglete at least has Traditional Dining and it's Sightseer Lounge back by then, but wouldn't bet the House on it!


at this point I don't really care as long as my roomette doesn't get "downgraded" to coach like the OP experienced.


----------



## Stremba (Jun 7, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> With a 4 and 2 year old we’re trying to get the room all the way, but that’s a great idea. Same thing is happening this morning. Family room shows on website but then I pay for it and system figures out theres no room to assign. 5 different dates on both SWC and the CZ. I even called Amex to see if issue was on their side, they said no card has not been declined.
> 
> If Amtrak didn’t have a zero refund policy on sleepers I’d try to buy a bogus ticket tomorrow just to see if anything works at this point then cancel it. I know there’s work arounds and I could voucher it out but what a pain. How much is Amtrak loosing with normal customers who causally will look and move on after dealing with something like this.


While I understand that the family bedroom is the best accommodation for your situation, you might also consider booking two roomettes. Two roomettes actually work pretty well if you have two adults with two small children. Each adult can share a roomette with a child. (Children seem to like the upper bunk much better than adults do as well - at least my son did when he was that age). It may not be that much more costly than the family room would be if you could have booked it. If available the system typically will give you roomettes across the hallway from each other (I have booked two roomettes on several trips and have not gotten ones across from each other only once). 

It may be less than ideal, but it would have to be better than coach if you cannot get the family room.


----------



## alpha3 (Jun 7, 2022)

What Amtrak needs is to modernize their res and booking systems, with some GOOD automated functions. Then a lot of this crap will go away - if they do. That, and staff-up. But staffing seems to be the bane of all businesses right now, not just transportation. The airlines are taking it up the keester too, with pilot and ground staff shortages. But I think a bit of THAT problem is due to today's lack of work ethic. I've had two projects at my house, for example, one electrical and one just replacing some guttering and soffits. The roofing/soffit guy told me they had a long lead time, they hired guys but ''these kids don't want to work, they just want to get paid. We pay top dollar, good benefits, but no one wants to put in the time.'' Electrician company also said they kept having to let people go because they wouldn't show up for work on time (or at all) , wanted extra time off, etc. 

Crazy world now.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 7, 2022)

Ive been hearing “these kids don’t want to work my entire adult life”. It’s different this time. No leadership or accountability on any level. Amtrak fits into that mold.

Following up on Dec trip. I called reservations, got my call back and explained the situation. After a painful 15 minutes of getting the right train and family room in her computer she said she could book it for $2200+. I told her im looking at it on the Amtrak website for $1473. She said “book it”, online prices are cheaper then calling us. I reminded her thats the reason Im calling, I can’t book it online. She said sorry I cant help but I‘ll transfer you to Guest Relations. Got in the queue there and received a callback 30 mins later. Explained the situation once, the lady said “got it“. Looked it up on the general website and said, yes I see the $1473. I’ll make it work for you. She had everything booked within 10 mins and had me email her screen shots of the error codes I was receiving. I did get the dreaded 32 car so I hope they have 3 sleepers in December. I’m happy though.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 7, 2022)

alpha3 said:


> We pay top dollar, good benefits, but no one wants to put in the time.


How much is left from this "top dollar" job after subtracting the cost of paying for a car, gas, food, insurance, retirement, and rent?



Amtrakfflyer said:


> Ive been hearing “these kids don’t want to work my entire adult life”. It’s different this time.


I agree that it's different this time. People are done working themselves into a grave for the privilege of keeping a mediocre job.


----------



## jiml (Jun 7, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Airlines switch planes and downgrade people. And I have been downgraded a few times on airlines from paid first class to coach, with only a pittance of a refund.


Yes, and (depending on the airline) you may get nothing if you booked a discounted First/Business fare and the cost of coach has met or exceeded that price at the time of the downgrade.


----------



## ShiningTimeStL (Jun 7, 2022)

I just watched a video from two days ago of 51 rolling into Chicago with two P42s, a Viewliner, a Viewliner bag, and two Superliners all deadheading in front of the usual Cardinal consist. So yes, more cars are coming from Beech Grove. I will rejoice with great adulation if I see more cars on the Eagle. I will scream in delight if it gets another sleeper. Please save my poor dear train.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 7, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I hope you are right but everything seems to be getting worse at the moment.



I wouldn’t agree that everything is getting worse. The handling of this situation related to inventory reductions for the summer is certainly an issue right now and a legitimate debate could certainly be had about whether they should have sold the inventory they sold for the summer due to uncertainties related to equipment. But it’s not all bad - trains are back to daily, and even with the Chief it is a mixed bag - it did receive an extra coach which it did not so last year and they seem to continue to work to accommodate the scouts which are an important customer in the summer. Some other trains have also gotten additions like the Capitol and Coast Starlight.


----------



## n3rdg1rl (Jun 8, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> But has anyone recently (the post above was talking about in the 1980s, when you’d think they would have been more efficient than now) had them cancel the sleeper that same day?


I've been seeing it on Reddit A LOT. It's been quite a few times in the past two weeks where riders have gotten to the train only to be told they are no longer in sleepers.

I'm holding off on my fall trip until this crap passes. I keep reading that it's happening over and over. I don't care too much for myself, but my husband hates to travel to begin with and has never taken the train with me before. If we were stuck in coach for 2 days, he may never leave Ohio with me again.

....then again.....LOL!!!!


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 8, 2022)

n3rdg1rl said:


> I've been seeing it on Reddit A LOT. It's been quite a few times in the past two weeks where riders have gotten to the train only to be told they are no longer in sleepers.



Thank you so much for the update. Is it mostly trains out west? Or did they mention the Capitol Limited?


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 8, 2022)

n3rdg1rl said:


> I've been seeing it on Reddit A LOT. It's been quite a few times in the past two weeks where riders have gotten to the train only to be told they are no longer in sleepers.


So this seems to be a problem that appears to be much more widespread and impactful than at first glance. Great publicity for Amtrak. At least more people must now know that Amtrak operates sleeping cars but unfortunately they now know not to include them in their travel plans.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 8, 2022)

My two calls to Amtrak after my website issues yesterday left me this impression. A) The website obviously needs to be updated. B) The general reservations number is just as bad. “I’d like to book the CA Zephyr from Emeryville to Galesburg December 18th”. Gales where? GBB, oh ok. We have 3 trains that day.….The CA Zypher, please? I don’t know that, do you have a train number? Like I said yesterday it was painful. The lady wasn’t rude but if Amtrak expects people to be spending upwards of $2000 for sleeper travel the general agents need to be trained. They really need dedicated agents for sleeper travel only.

My second call to Guest Relations was amazing. She had my problem fixed and trip booked in 5 mins than went on to ask if I had any questions, wanted to know if we had been in the family sleeper before. She ended by saying can you check your email to make sure the ticket looks right? The whole call took maybe 7 minutes. Night and day difference.

Amtrak needs to be able to publicize its services and perks to make its own publicity starting with its call centers. At the same time they should be able to do damage control by reaching out to customers as soon as they know a train or car is canceled.


----------



## alpha3 (Jun 8, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> How much is left from this "top dollar" job after subtracting the cost of paying for a car, gas, food, insurance, retirement, and rent?


Probably a decent amount, these are union shop jobs. I know especially the plumbers and electricians make a lot.


Devil's Advocate said:


> I agree that it's different this time. People are done working themselves into a grave for the privilege of keeping a mediocre job.


That's not completely true. Maybe some are mediocre, yes; but many businesses are now advertising wages AND benefits, where they wouldn't provide benefits like medical before but are doing so now. Those have to be calculated into the total earnings value. Plus, the sign-on bonuses can be quite a lot.
That still leaves a lot of working-age folks that don't want to, or prefer working from home.


----------



## saxpower (Jun 8, 2022)

While a long time ago (late 70s/80s), these remind me of my prior experiences on LD trains. 

At the time of these was in late middle/early high school (like I said, quite a while ago. High School was "a few" years ago).
[For some reason on both of these trips we only did the return trip was by train- other way was by bus or plane]

Late 70's, North Carolina to Wilmington DE. This was in the days before a coach ticket meant a coach _seat. _After trapsing through the train (with all our luggage) several times we ended up in the smoking car, sitting in chairs mounted sideways to the movement of the train. OBS was entirely unsympathetic to the situation. (Not sure what kind of car it was- I'm assuming heritage of some sort. I have odd memory the smoking area was on the second floor of the car, but that doesn't make sense in a train which was going to go up the NEC).

Early 80s. Greenville, SC to Wilmington DE. Just my mom and I. My mom had booked 2 rooms (the rooms would not have been enough for both of us, so it wasn't a roomette- again, probably heritage). As we got on the train we were told there was only one room. The seat in the room was too small for both of us and I ended up sitting on the cover to the in-room toilet. Good news was they did "make it right" and I ended up in a crew member's quarters (with private enclosed commode)- you can guess where my mom and I spent the trip. 

Obviously, a long time ago. The move to reserved coach seats takes care of the first problem (of course, there would not be a smoking car). I'm assuming the second was some overbooking issue- and with non-refundable fares there should no longer be a reason for that. As to the removal of planned rolling stock after people make reservations- obviously a car can be damaged/malfunction at the last minute and there are only so many cars that can be held in reserve [and they may not be in a location where they can be added to a train at the last moment]. However, this should occur extremely rarely, and doesn't appear to be the problem for the recent occurrences. Changes in accomodations being offered should not occur once reservations are made. 

Have my fingers crossed for my July trip on the Cardinal. (I should day I ride Amtrak to NYC a few times a year and found the service to be good).


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 8, 2022)

saxpower said:


> Have my fingers crossed for my July trip on the Cardinal. (I should day I ride Amtrak to NYC a few times a year and found the service to be good).


The summer consists are basically set now so provided you are booked into the car that's running you should be fine absent some crazy bad order where there's no protect available on the day of.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 8, 2022)

Also, if they remove your sleeper and chuck you into coach, is it possible to still use the lounges at either end by showing a printout of your original ticket and explaining what happened? 

Anyone try this yet?


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 8, 2022)

I’m sure it would work since they just “look” at it vs scanning it. I wouldn’t mention anything though.


----------



## Willbridge (Jun 8, 2022)

As a veteran coach passenger following this thread, my main fear for July-August travel that I have booked is that I'll have to sit next to a downgraded First Class passenger and hear how bad everything is. My second fear is that I'll be sitting next to an upgraded Greyhound passenger who will complain that the food on Greyhound is better than in Amtrak Coach.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 9, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> As a veteran coach passenger following this thread, my main fear for July-August travel that I have booked is that I'll have to sit next to a downgraded First Class passenger and hear how bad everything is.



I realize I must sound like a complete prima donna from some of my remarks here.

I’m really not—I commuted on NJ Transit for many years, and that made Amtrak coach look like the Orient Express.

Normally, if I were changed to coach from a sleeper, I would treat it as an adventure.

The reason I’m so concerned this time is that I have a shin splint, and, although it’s getting better, the absolute worst position for my leg is sitting with it out diagonally. Ten minutes in a friend’s car going to a restaurant is fine, but not 8 hours in a coach seat.

Plus I can barely walk through a moving train without stumbling when everything is fine, so with a cane and wonky leg I don’t know how I’d manage the bathroom. That’s why I splurged for the bedroom —I would never, ever do that normally for this short a trip—bit I wanted the long seat so I could put my leg up whenever I wanted, plus the bathroom in the room so I wouldn’t have to go down the hall.

Just wanted to clarify that I’m not as spoiled as I must have come across.

I just don’t want the leg to get worse and then have to go to the orthopedic guys and be told “No more train trips for you for a while”!


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 9, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Thank you so much for the update. Is it mostly trains out west? Or did they mention the Capitol Limited?


It's been out west - Empire Builder and Southwest Chief is what I have heard where they originally sold an additional sleeper and couldn't deliver. Haven't heard about that happening with the Zephyr or Coast Starlight.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 9, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I realize I must sound like a complete prima donna from some of my remarks here.
> 
> I’m really not—I commuted on NJ Transit for many years, and that made Amtrak coach look like the Orient Express.
> 
> ...


You might consider renting a wheelchair that has the extendable leg support and getting an accessible seat. The accessible seats are close to the bathrooms on Amfleet coaches. I'm not familiar with the location on Superliners, but they can't be more than half a car-length away.


----------



## tricia (Jun 9, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I realize I must sound like a complete prima donna from some of my remarks here.
> 
> I’m really not—I commuted on NJ Transit for many years, and that made Amtrak coach look like the Orient Express.
> 
> ...



You don't sound at all like a prima donna. 

I think for many of us, booking a lie-flat roomette or bedroom is what makes overnight train travel physically possible. That was certainly the case when I was traveling with my elderly father. And the older I get, the less doable overnight in coach is for me, too: Overnight sitting up wouldn't put me in a hospital, but would result in debilitating aches and pains for at least a day or two. Not a good scenario for getting off the train the next day, carrying baggage, and trying to enjoy a vacation or be productive at work. 

That Amtrak recently has apparently been inflicting downgrades to overnight coach on passengers with less-than-soonest notice is a real deterrent to me booking overnight train travel right now---especially travel with other elements (hotel, plane tickets...) that can't be cancelled without penalty.


----------



## n3rdg1rl (Jun 9, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Thank you so much for the update. Is it mostly trains out west? Or did they mention the Capitol Limited?


Southwest Chief (x3), Empire Builder, Sunset Limited...that's in the past week, or at least posted in the past week.


----------



## billosborn (Jun 11, 2022)

It seems as though the Zephyr has consistently run with three sleepers, so it seems to be unaffected by the shortages on the Chief and others.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jun 12, 2022)

I don't think anyone sounds like a prima donna. It's a legitimate gripe and people make major travel decisions based on what they're paying for.


----------



## Maglev (Jun 12, 2022)

billosborn said:


> It seems as though the Zephyr has consistently run with three sleepers, so it seems to be unaffected by the shortages on the Chief and others.


A video I saw on Facebook today showed the _Zephyr _with two Sleepers and a Trans-Dorm. The _Starlight _has been running with three sleepers but no Trans-Dorm.


----------



## jis (Jun 12, 2022)

Maglev said:


> A video I saw on Facebook today showed the _Zephyr _with two Sleepers and a Trans-Dorm. The _Starlight _has been running with three sleepers but no Trans-Dorm.


Yup. The CZ has generally been running with 2 Sleepers and 1 Trans-Dorm, while the CS got a third Sleeper starting mid May, and it has no Trans-Dorm.


----------



## dcipjr (Jun 14, 2022)

Thanks to all for the information here. I had heard the reports of people being bumped from sleepers on Reddit, so I figured I'd pop by and see if the community here had any knowledge of what was going on.

I was a bit concerned because we have a trip planned (2 adults, 1 child) cross-country for December, to spend Christmas with family—the first time we will have spent the holidays with them since 2019, due to the pandemic.

If Amtrak were to pull the rug out from under us on that trip, I would be rather...unhappy.

But, based on what I'm reading here, it sounds as if we were bumped already:

We booked our trip (PHL-WAS-CHI-LAX) back on 2/15, with a family bedroom on the Capitol Limited, and two roomettes on the Chief.

On 4/30, I got a new and unexpected "eTicket and Receipt" email from Amtrak for the reservation, and noticed we had been bounced from the family bedroom into two roomettes.

I was meaning to call and ask Amtrak about the change and hadn't yet—but now it makes sense. Looking at the original eTicket, our family bedroom was in the 2901 car, and the new ticket has us in two roomettes in the 2900 car.

Our Southwest Chief reservation was in the 330 car, and that didn't get changed.

Sounds like it's possible that they're planning on shortened consists in the winter as well.

I suppose we'll be fine as long as the train goes with a sleeper, but honestly Amtrak sounds a bit of a mess right now. Weren't they supposed to be getting a ton of funding from the federal government as part of the infrastructure bill? I kind of expected that things would be getting better, not worse.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 14, 2022)

You are in the "base" sleepers on both trains now, so I wouldn't worry about it further.

Amtrak's problem right now is lack of management competency.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 14, 2022)

dcipjr said:


> I suppose we'll be fine as long as the train goes with a sleeper, but honestly Amtrak sounds a bit of a mess right now. Weren't they supposed to be getting a ton of funding from the federal government as part of the infrastructure bill? I kind of expected that things would be getting better, not worse.



It should be noted the infrastructure bill funding is largely for long term deferred projects and rolling stock replacement not day to day operations or even shorter term Capitol projects - and while I totally understand the bad optics of the situation given the money they got it actually is somewhat irrelevant. The current Amtrak issues of consists, staffing, rolling stock is all dealt with out of the normal appropriations Amtrak gets yearly from Congress. While there is certainly some criticism to be had on Amtrak’s handling of various issues - these issues are not unprecedented across transportation or really the whole economy right now. We can certainly criticize various decisions made - chiefly in my opinion the short sighted downsizing decisions they made in late 2020 which was the biggest blunder. At the end of the day however the pandemic and it’s consequences remains largely the core of Amtrak’s problems - and even if there was a management shuffle these problems would remain.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 14, 2022)

By the spring of 2022 neither COVID nor staffing and equipment shortages were in any way surprising. Yet Amtrak offered inventory on trains they ultimately could not provide. Worse yet, they did not notify passengers holding confirmed reservations when the decisions were made and inventory withdrawn, but rather elected to delay informing them until relatively shortly before departure, increasing the impact of disrupted travel plans.

If that is not a management failure, I do not know what is. The staffing and equipment issues have been apparent for quite awhile now. Given the _known _situation, the proper course of action would have been to release minimum inventory for sale this summer, then add inventory when they knew they could support it. Instead they appear to have adopted an approach based, well, what would appear to be somebody's wildly over optimistic projection. Wishful thinking is not the basis for sound decisions.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 14, 2022)

dcipjr said:


> Thanks to all for the information here. I had heard the reports of people being bumped from sleepers on Reddit, so I figured I'd pop by and see if the community here had any knowledge of what was going on.
> 
> I was a bit concerned because we have a trip planned (2 adults, 1 child) cross-country for December, to spend Christmas with family—the first time we will have spent the holidays with them since 2019, due to the pandemic.
> 
> ...


Are the Roomettes opposite one another? That would be one odd-numbered, and the other the next higher sequential number (e.g. 3 & 4, or 5 & 6). If not, you might call and ask if two opposites are available, but they might not be if the train has been downsized.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> By the spring of 2022 neither COVID nor staffing and equipment shortages were in any way surprising. Yet Amtrak offered inventory on trains they ultimately could not provide. Worse yet, they did not notify passengers holding confirmed reservations when the decisions were made and inventory withdrawn, but rather elected to delay informing them until relatively shortly before departure, increasing the impact of disrupted travel plans.


I wonder how many passengers have had their sleeping car reservations canceled in this debacle. I don't think this has happened to only a few dozen passengers but probably the number affected is much higher.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 14, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I wonder how many passengers have had their sleeping car reservations canceled in this debacle. I don't think this has happened to only a few dozen passengers but probably the number affected is much higher.


Given that the ones we know about are those posting here and on FB are probably a tiny minority of riders. Probably at least a 10 to 1 ratio of those that it happened to versus those we know about


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> By the spring of 2022 neither COVID nor staffing and equipment shortages were in any way surprising. Yet Amtrak offered inventory on trains they ultimately could not provide.


I think the slow communications is ultimately the real problem - I totally agree they need to get their act together on the reservations side of things and that's a problem that should be less time consuming and complex to solve and they need to solve it and would be my biggest beef. I wouldn’t really be that offended by the optimistic overbooking of sleepers if they gave sufficient notice so people could make other arrangements - not being able to honor flights and what not certainly also happens in the airline industry. Obviously it's going to hurt Amtrak more on a one a day train given the limited capacity and limited ability to re-accommodate during the busy season and the lower in general threshold people are going to have for "never again" on trains vs planes. But overbooking isn’t a uniquely Amtrak thing nor is disruptions in capacity (it just takes the form of flight cancellations with airlines.) I think we realistically have to expect at least another year of operational challenges - but Amtrak can certainly mitigate this by improving how passengers are notified - and promptly cancelling or downgrading the reservations well in advance or a week before.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 15, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> I think the slow communications is ultimately the real problem - I totally agree they need to get their act together on the reservations side of things and that's a problem that should be less time consuming and complex to solve and they need to solve it and would be my biggest beef. I wouldn’t really be that offended by the optimistic overbooking of sleepers if they gave sufficient notice so people could make other arrangements - not being able to honor flights and what not certainly also happens in the airline industry. Obviously it's going to hurt Amtrak more on a one a day train given the limited capacity and limited ability to re-accommodate during the busy season and the lower in general threshold people are going to have for "never again" on trains vs planes. But overbooking isn’t a uniquely Amtrak thing nor is disruptions in capacity (it just takes the form of flight cancellations with airlines.) I think we realistically have to expect at least another year of operational challenges - but Amtrak can certainly mitigate this by improving how passengers are notified - and promptly cancelling or downgrading the reservations well in advance or a week before.


And, with regard to sleepers, Amtrak had never, ever overbooked sleepers.

Until this clown car arrived.

PS, "slow communications" is an issue of management competency.  Or incompetentcy. Which COVID does not explain or provide an excuse for.


----------



## dcipjr (Jun 15, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Are the Roomettes opposite one another? That would be one odd-numbered, and the other the next higher sequential number (e.g. 3 & 4, or 5 & 6). If not, you might call and ask if two opposites are available, but they might not be if the train has been downsized.



They are for the Capitol Limited, which got the downgrade. 

They aren't for the Chief, but that was the case even when we booked. The roomettes are relatively close together so it should be fine.

I may call..I'd almost rather not push my luck...


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> And, with regard to sleepers, Amtrak had never, ever overbooked sleepers.
> 
> Until this clown car arrived.
> 
> PS, "slow communications" is an issue of management competency. Or incompetentcy. Which COVID does not explain or provide an excuse for.


All true - and overbooking sleepers isn't something that should become a normal part of the business. But in this case it's very much a continuation of the disruptions that began with reducing service to 5 days a week - while this is a lousy situation on the two trains it's affecting getting back to daily is at least somewhat progress. But I totally agree the way they are handling the communications is something advocates should be hitting management on.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 15, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I realize I must sound like a complete prima donna from some of my remarks here.
> 
> I’m really not—I commuted on NJ Transit for many years, and that made Amtrak coach look like the Orient Express.
> 
> ...



And after all of that, Mother Nature is having the final say. Just cancelled the trip. It’s going to be high 90s to 100° the days we would be in Chicago and meeting a friend in a nearby town.

Rebooking for the early fall.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Until this clown car arrived.


A clown car with bookable chefs to ensure the top clowns never have to eat their own clown chow.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jun 15, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> And after all of that, Mother Nature is having the final say. Just cancelled the trip. It’s going to be high 90s to 100° the days we would be in Chicago and meeting a friend in a nearby town.
> 
> Rebooking for the early fall.


Excellent idea Patty!Chicago is Nice in the Fall, and hopefully Amtrak will have its act somewhat together by then including Traditional Dining on the Eastern Trains, enough Sleepers to meet the demand, and enough Employees to Crew the Trains anx the Stations!


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 15, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Excellent idea Patty!Chicago is Nice in the Fall, and hopefully Amtrak will have its act somewhat together by then including Traditional Dining on the Eastern Trains, enough Sleepers to meet the demand, and enough Employees to Crew the Trains anx the Stations!



Thanks, Jim! All things to look forward to. But if I had to pick one, it would be comfortable weather.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 15, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> All true - and overbooking sleepers isn't something that should become a normal part of the business. But in this case it's very much a continuation of the disruptions that began with reducing service to 5 days a week - while this is a lousy situation on the two trains it's affecting getting back to daily is at least somewhat progress. But I totally agree the way they are handling the communications is something advocates should be hitting management on.


Disruptions that by late 2021, early 2022 were very much in evidence and well known. Yet the inventory stayed on the books until late spring. Hmm, I still do not see evidence of a valid excuse for Amtrak's management here.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 15, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> And after all of that, Mother Nature is having the final say. Just cancelled the trip. It’s going to be high 90s to 100° the days we would be in Chicago and meeting a friend in a nearby town.
> 
> Rebooking for the early fall.


I've decided not to book any trips before September, with the awful weather around the country, and the lousy connections without the Silver Meteor.


----------



## PaTrainFan (Jun 15, 2022)

Any idea why I would get a new receipt and eticket, three weeks after making the inital reservation for a trip planned in September, but one that has no changes? I'm ticketed in a bedroom on the EB from PDX to MSP using AGR points. My immediate thought when I saw the email was, uh oh, they are involuntarily downgrading me. But no such thing, not even a change in cars or rooms. Curious.

Edit: Now I see why. Schedule change.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 15, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Any idea why I would get a new receipt and eticket, three weeks after making the inital reservation for a trip planned in September, but one that has no changes? I'm ticketed in a bedroom on the EB from PDX to MSP using AGR points. My immediate thought when I saw the email was, uh oh, they are involuntarily downgrading me. But no such thing, not even a change in cars or rooms. Curious.


They changed the schedule today effective July 11th. The PDX departure time didn't change, but your arrival time in MSP will have been moved back from 7:43 am to 8:33 am.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Disruptions that by late 2021, early 2022 were very much in evidence and well known. Yet the inventory stayed on the books until late spring. Hmm, I still do not see evidence of a valid excuse for Amtrak's management here.


I don’t really think we have a disagreement here - I agree with you. An earlier communication/canceling out of the inventory would have increased the chances of those affected getting moved to an open slot. The moment they suspected they wouldn’t be able to make summer consists they should have canceled it out for everyone to give people opportunities to secure an open spot before things sell out - which is what happens when you do it a week out.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 15, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> I don’t really think we have a disagreement here - I agree with you. An earlier communication/canceling out of the inventory would have increased the chances of those affected getting moved to an open slot. The moment they suspected they wouldn’t be able to make summer consists they should have canceled it out for everyone to give people opportunities to secure an open spot before things sell out - which is what happens when you do it a week out.


I think it may be only a matter of degree that there is any disagreement. Personally, I think they should have seen it coming as early as late last year, and started planning and selecting trains for minimal consists in daily service then. COVID was already a factor, they knew their HR department was short staffed and unable to handle the needed ramp up in personnel, they knew the lead times required to train mechanical, OBS, and T&E personnel, and they knew the Great Resignation was well underway. Also, legal weed, often cited for Amtrak's hiring woes, was a known factor. Heck, it has been legal in Washington since like 2012. They should have made a worst possible case projection, because it was _already_ a perfect storm that was plainly visible, and set their equipment and staffing plans, which drive inventory, based on that. If they exceeded them, capacity could be added if firmer projections based on actual hiring, training, and equipment recommissioning allowed it. Granted, they might not have been able to get high bucket for a car added only 4 months out, but that is preferable to yanking the rug out from someone paying thousands of dollars, and with major associated plans, some likely non-refundable, at the last minute.

As it stands, my understanding is, for the Builder, they initially set daily service with a full consist to start in May, they pushed it back to July in like late March or early April, then ditched it entirely in May sometime. My contention is they should have allowed for it and reduced inventory by January or February _at the latest because it had become predictable by then. _Yes, that would have booted early bookers out of some rooms, but with a lot of lead time, and prevented some other bookings entirely. It would have lead to a lot of wailing and moaning here about high bucket prices and lack of inventory. If Amtrak had a competent IT department, those having been kicked out their rooms by an early inventory reduction, could have been put on some sort of waitlist and offered rooms back at the original fares if inventory was subsequently re-added. Even without that, the right thing to do was to have been conservative in their projections, and therefore inventory, based on the knowledge and facts clearly available early this year.

Where we most heartily agree is the delay in notification, regardless of when the decision to remove inventory was made, is frankly unforgiveable. We talk here often about "Never agains" due to a bad initial Amtrak experience due to extreme lateness, surly OBS, poor food, or all of the above. The current management team has managed to create some "Never agains" without them ever even having stepped onboard a train.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 16, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> IMPORTANT UPDATE
> 
> We called Amtrak again this morning (Sunday, June 5th) and this time asked to speak to an agent. (To do so, we had to request a “call back,” which we received in about 15 minutes.) We spoke with “James” who initially told us that, yes, there had been some changes made to the Southwest Chief sleeping cars, but our bedroom reservations were still good as we’d been transferred to a different car. We thanked him and ended the call. Then a few minutes later “James” called back to say that that the sleeper on SWC No. 4 that we’d been reassigned to had been removed from the train on the date we’d planned to travel, and that Amtrak couldn’t downgrade us because the train was sold out! Needless to say, we had no choice but to cancel our trip. (At least we didn’t have to wait until two weeks before our departure date to learn that Amtrak couldn’t honor the reservations that we’d made and paid for last December!)
> 
> ...


On September 7th, we made new reservations for late September – same trains and accommodations – and ended up paying $600 more than for the reservations made in December.

This morning we called Amtrak Customer Relations to see about a $600 courtesy refund, seeing as how Amtrak was to blame for our having to make the new reservations. Since we'd already received a refund for the reservations we had to cancel, the best they could do for us was issue a $300 credit voucher which was applied to our new reservations and which will result in a $300 refund to our credit card. We can live with this.


----------



## jacket94 (Jun 17, 2022)

Booked last September for the Empire Builder CHI-SEA this coming Thursday (June 23). In April of this year, Amtrak moved my reservation from the regular sleeper to an added transition sleeper (I did not ask or want this; it just showed up in my email one day). Reservation was just downgraded one week in advance. Amtrak says the car has been removed from the train, and customer relations just shrugs their shoulders (and suggested that I take the trip in 4-5 months at a higher fare!). I asked why I (who booked when the train was 10% full and sleepers were offered for at least 6 months after I booked) was downgraded while others who booked after me were left alone - including the people they moved into my previously assigned room. Dead silence, followed by "You can still go in coach."

I have always been a proponent of rail, but I'm of the opinion that Amtrak is no longer the way to make it ever happen in the US.


----------



## Rasputin (Jun 17, 2022)

When customers are screwed over by a company for the company's own purposes or due to the company's incompetence, you would think that any company that wished to be reasonably successful would pull out all stops to try to correct or rectify the situation by overcompensating if necessary those customers who have been screwed over. Merely giving people their money back for the non-service and perhaps some paltry lunch money besides that just doesn't cut it. 

This is especially true when the customers being screwed are Amtrak's highest paying customers. 

Personally, I am just glad that I have no travel plans this year (except maybe another Acela trip). It seems to be a time of high anxiety.


----------



## jacket94 (Jun 17, 2022)

jacket94 said:


> Booked last September for the Empire Builder CHI-SEA this coming Thursday (June 23). In April of this year, Amtrak moved my reservation from the regular sleeper to an added transition sleeper (I did not ask or want this; it just showed up in my email one day). Reservation was just downgraded one week in advance. Amtrak says the car has been removed from the train, and customer relations just shrugs their shoulders (and suggested that I take the trip in 4-5 months at a higher fare!). I asked why I (who booked when the train was 10% full and sleepers were offered for at least 6 months after I booked) was downgraded while others who booked after me were left alone - including the people they moved into my previously assigned room. Dead silence, followed by "You can still go in coach."
> 
> I have always been a proponent of rail, but I'm of the opinion that Amtrak is no longer the way to make it ever happen in the US.


Update: Sometimes it pays to hang up/call back as well as be a bit vulnerable. I called back and waited about an hour and a half for customer relations. I started the call by explaining how angry and upset I was. Agent replied that he would also be livid in the same situation, how unfair it is to everyone being impacted (so there are lots of people!), and how someone "in Washington" is making random decisions while leaving the frontline people to clean up the mess. All very true. After emphasizing again how unfair this situation is, we started to work together for any solution other than a refund. The end result is a train two days earlier, but an upgrade from a roomette to a standard bedroom. Refund of my connecting train from Indy, but I need to fly to Chicago.

I have lots of other issues to work out and I am still a little out of pocket, but it was good to find someone in customer relations that was willing to work with me. I'll call this a win.


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 17, 2022)

I’m worried about my Dec 18th trip in the family room I talked about earlier. I called and asked to get out of 32 car but couldn’t as 30 and 31 car the family room is sold out. The CZ as of now doesn’t have a 32 car and guest relations said to check back for updates. She insinuated something bigger is at play here and expects service to go back to 5 or possibly 3 days a week after summer due to lack of personnel and equipment coming from “the top”. If anyone has tickets more then 6 weeks out I’d highly suggest checking your reservation online weekly to check for changes.

As Jacket94 pointed out, these are not isolated issues. They are getting angry calls all day long about changes.


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I’m worried about my Dec 18th trip in the family room I talked about earlier. I called and asked to get out of 32 car but couldn’t as 30 and 31 car the family room is sold out. The CZ as of now doesn’t have a 32 car and guest relations said to check back for updates. She insinuated something bigger is at play here and expects service to go back to 5 or possibly 3 days a week after summer due to lack of personnel and equipment coming from “the top”. If anyone has tickets more then 6 weeks out I’d highly suggest checking your reservation online weekly to check for changes.
> 
> As Jacket94 pointed out, these are not isolated issues. They are getting angry calls all day long about changes.


I believe the CZ has a 32 car for the summer. Is your reservation for later on in the year when that car might not be running?


----------



## Amtrakfflyer (Jun 17, 2022)

Dec 18th. As of recently it’s been 3 sleepers but one of them is a transition. Who knows. It’s always been fun planning out a train trip, until now, now its just a headache


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Dec 18th


Riding the CZ this summer and I am booked in the 32 car. From what I can tell (railcams, videos on YouTube, etc) they are still running it for now. Although it still worries me a little considering everything else that’s going on.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I’m worried about my Dec 18th trip in the family room I talked about earlier. I called and asked to get out of 32 car but couldn’t as 30 and 31 car the family room is sold out. The CZ as of now doesn’t have a 32 car and guest relations said to check back for updates. She insinuated something bigger is at play here and expects service to go back to 5 or possibly 3 days a week after summer due to lack of personnel and equipment coming from “the top”. If anyone has tickets more then 6 weeks out I’d highly suggest checking your reservation online weekly to check for changes.
> 
> As Jacket94 pointed out, these are not isolated issues. They are getting angry calls all day long about changes.


Sorry not to be able to offer words reassurance, but in your position I'd be worried, too. It does appear that the CZ wasn't hit by the inventory withdrawals the SW Chief and the Builder were. But if Amtrak is as competent in planning for the Christmas season as they were for the summer and plays another round of Sleeper Roulette due to shortages and bad planning, who knows what train will wind up with the loaded chamber?

Just keep checking your reservation on the app regularly on the app to see if your reservation starts showing the dreaded no QR.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I’m worried about my Dec 18th trip in the family room I talked about earlier. I called and asked to get out of 32 car but couldn’t as 30 and 31 car the family room is sold out. The CZ as of now doesn’t have a 32 car and guest relations said to check back for updates. She insinuated something bigger is at play here and expects service to go back to 5 or possibly 3 days a week after summer due to lack of personnel and equipment coming from “the top”. If anyone has tickets more then 6 weeks out I’d highly suggest checking your reservation online weekly to check for changes.
> 
> As Jacket94 pointed out, these are not isolated issues. They are getting angry calls all day long about changes.


Question: if the Southwest Chief goes back to 5 or possibly 3 days a week after summer, on what days will it be departing from Los Angeles and from Chicago?


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 17, 2022)

I’ll be honest I have some concerns. Amtrak is continuing to have a hard time hiring and they are reportedly losing people faster than the hiring process. There are some rumblings on other forums that they may have to again reduce service to 5 days or even 3 days a week in the fall. I think they may need to rethink how OBS is operated on the western routes. People do not want to be away from family - perhaps not send people the whole way and establish intermediate turning points. That may help with hiring.


----------



## 20th Century Rider (Jun 17, 2022)

With rail enthusiasts I guess Amtrak management feels they have a captive audience they can do with what they want without showing respect or appreciation to you and me... the customer. Does your hard earned money mean anything? Can they just steal your fare out of your pocket by downgrading you and then it becomes your responsibility to book that sleeper when they have the space at a much higher fare??? Not ethical by any stretch of the imagination.

IMO they are responsible for rebooking you without charging anything additional... and... providing you with an additional discount for your inconvenience or some kind of fare voucher. This is rationally correct and should be expected.

So my question to the dedicated rail traveler is why are you putting up with such customer abuse... which it clearly is!?!

As for me... I am planning some road trips next fall with my jalopy which is falling apart but has good wheels and engine. Certainly I hope to travel again by train but will require customer respect from Amtrak and will not do so until it is what it should be. !!! 

After all, as I remember from riding the 20th Century Limited decades ago, it's all about customer service!!!


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 17, 2022)

20th Century Rider brings up an interesting point which I’d never considered before and which, if done intentionally, is despicable: Amtrak canceling out a confirmed bedroom reservation made 6 to 12 months earlier so that that bedroom can be sold to someone else for a higher price. In our case, we just had to pay $600 more to remake the same reservations we’d originally made last December. Even now, we have no guarantee that Amtrak will be able to honor these new reservations, particularly if, after the summer season is over, they decide to limit the Southwest Chief to only 5 or 3 departures a week. (If they already know that they are going to do this, and continue to sell reservations for trains they know won’t be running, that is doubly despicable!)


----------



## 20th Century Rider (Jun 18, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> 20th Century Rider brings up an interesting point which I’d never considered before and which, if done intentionally, is despicable: Amtrak canceling out a confirmed bedroom reservation made 6 to 12 months earlier so that that bedroom can be sold to someone else for a higher price. In our case, we just had to pay $600 more to remake the same reservations we’d originally made last December. Even now, we have no guarantee that Amtrak will be able to honor these new reservations, particularly if, after the summer season is over, they decide to limit the Southwest Chief to only 5 or 3 departures a week. (If they already know that they are going to do this, and continue to sell reservations for trains they know won’t be running, that is doubly despicable!)


Just think of what you could do with the $600 being lost due to Amtrak caused res xcl's that could be better spent somewhere else. You may want to actually consider a car trip even with high gas prices... next fall. At $6 per gallon, a car getting 30 miles per gallon could go 3000 miles on $600... a decent length for a car trip. [$600/6mpg = 100 gallons x 30 mpg = 3000 mi. Figure out $150 per night for moderate hotels x 10 nights is another $1500; another $400 for food over and above what you would normally spend anyway. [I shop out of super markets opposed to fast food for health reasons] so you get a car trip to wherever you want to go for $2500. Stop anywhere, go anywhere, eat when and where you want and make your adventure whatever you fancy.

Much has been discussed on AU regarding road trip vs Amtrak. I'm not saying it can replace the experience... but personally and at this point in my life I do find a car trip to be a great travel alternative that provides access to the backroads of America and some unique historical sights, scenery, and etc. If you're lucky enough to own an old jalopy with a tape deck, you're all set. With a car trip one is in more control of the travel experience.

With Amtrak these days, it's a roll of the dice.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 18, 2022)

20th Century Rider said:


> Much has been discussed on AU regarding road trip vs Amtrak. I'm not saying it can replace the experience... but personally and at this point in my life I do find a car trip to be a great travel alternative that provides access to the backroads of America and some unique historical sights, scenery, and etc. If you're lucky enough to own an old jalopy with a tape deck, you're all set. With a car trip one is in more control of the travel experience.


But some of us have physical limitations which make spending 8 hours in a driver's seat difficult. The freedom to stretch out and change position from time to time is essential.


----------



## jis (Jun 18, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please let us not turn this thread into yet another car vs. Amtrak thread. We know already that for some the Car is a better choice. No point in repeating that ad infinitum. Back to downgrades or cancellations close to departure date initiated by Amtrak and how they handle such and what choices one has to recover from such. Recognizing that one could be left with dirving as the only choice in some cases, let us broaden the discussion to other viable alternatives.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 18, 2022)

We don’t take the train just for the fun of riding the train. Our big long-distance trip for the year is made specifically to visit family members living in Ohio. (It is difficult for them to travel to California so we must go to them.) Being seniors, we’re no longer up to driving to Ohio, and for various reasons, we no longer fly. Taking the train is really our only option for long distance travel and even this is dependent upon being able to obtain bedroom accommodations for the dates we want. This is why we make our reservations 6 months in advance.

As someone else has already pointed out, a confirmed Amtrak reservation was once about as reliable as anything could be, barring some crisis occasioned by the weather or generated by human or structural failure. This does not appear to be the case at the moment. Let us hope that this is just a temporary condition and not just another example of a time-honored tradition that has been overwhelmed in the tidal surge of mediocrity that passes for progress.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jun 18, 2022)

Yes, this is disturbing, if that is what is happening; low bucket fares booked far in advance being downgraded in favor of higher rates they can sell today. I have encountered this among hotels a couple of times, and whether it's a train, hotel or other travel vendor, it's obviously unethical. There have to be laws on the books already, they need to be enforced, if there are loopholes they need to be closed.
Edit: Amtrak is aggressively marketing sleeper travel. Fine, charge what you can today, if people are willing to pay it. Do not sacrifice existing customers who found a deal and booked it long before you decided this was a way to boost the bottom line.


----------



## Sidney (Jun 18, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Yes, this is disturbing, if that is what is happening; low bucket fares booked far in advance being downgraded in favor of higher rates they can sell today. I have encountered this among hotels a couple of times, and whether it's a train, hotel or other travel vendor, it's obviously unethical. There have to be laws on the books already, they need to be enforced, if there are loopholes they need to be closed.
> Edit: Amtrak is aggressively marketing sleeper travel. Fine, charge what you can today, if people are willing to pay it. Do not sacrifice existing customers who found a deal and booked it long before you decided this was a way to boost the bottom line.


We booked a sleeper on the Zephyr months ago at low bucket. Our trip from CHI-SAC is three weeks away. I have taken a hundred or more Amtrak LD trips in sleepers over the years. I have never encountered a problem. I ve been reading these horror stories about passengers being downgraded to Coach with very little notice.. No way in hell would we do that.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 18, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Yes, this is disturbing, if that is what is happening; low bucket fares booked far in advance being downgraded in favor of higher rates they can sell today. I have encountered this among hotels a couple of times, and whether it's a train, hotel or other travel vendor, it's obviously unethical. There have to be laws on the books already, they need to be enforced, if there are loopholes they need to be closed.
> Edit: Amtrak is aggressively marketing sleeper travel. Fine, charge what you can today, if people are willing to pay it. Do not sacrifice existing customers who found a deal and booked it long before you decided this was a way to boost the bottom line.


I don't think I've seen anything saying that that's an actual strategy. They're not canceling reservations and then reselling them at a higher price, are they?

My understanding is that they're eliminating inventory that's already been sold, and canceling the reservations of those unlucky enough to be in the cars that have been cut, without regard to fare level or date booked.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 18, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I don't think I've seen anything saying that that's an actual strategy. They're not canceling reservations and then reselling them at a higher price, are they?
> 
> My understanding is that they're eliminating inventory that's already been sold, and canceling the reservations of those unlucky enough to be in the cars that have been cut, without regard to fare level or date booked.


Agree it is a straightforward cancelling/downgrading passengers unlucky enough booked in the dropped car. They don't appear to be doing any shuffling of passengers around based on date booked, price paid, or anything else.

I doubt it is a strategy. It's just a s show that they're bumbling through.

Making sure I am in the 30/00/11/whatever "base" sleeper car on any trains until this hurricane of incompetence is over.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jun 18, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I don't think I've seen anything saying that that's an actual strategy. They're not canceling reservations and then reselling them at a higher price, are they?
> 
> My understanding is that they're eliminating inventory that's already been sold, and canceling the reservations of those unlucky enough to be in the cars that have been cut, without regard to fare level or date booked.


well, I'm sure your understanding is more accurate, and I'm certainly not sure about this being an intentional strategy. But from the perspective of the consumer, they are impacted regardless of why it happened. And this is a lot harder to explain to buyers than say a hurricane, flood, pandemic, etc. Also. When it comes to managing which customers are re-accommodated and who are not... the amount paid is going to factor into that, no matter what anyone admits to.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 18, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> When it comes to managing which customers are re-accommodated and who are not... the amount paid is going to factor into that, no matter what anyone admits to.


They aren't that smart. The people getting downgraded/cancelled are the ones booked into the dropped car, irrespective of what bucket their ticket was in. Likewise, the ones booked into the operating car get to keep theirs, irrespective of fare bucket.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 18, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> They aren't that smart. The people getting downgraded/cancelled are the ones booked into the dropped car, irrespective of what bucket their ticket was in. Likewise, the ones booked into the operating car get to keep theirs, irrespective of fare bucket.


We tend to agree with this opinion. (To think otherwise is to credit Amtrak management with coming up with stratagem worthy of a Borgia!) This whole sorry situation most likely came about through the ineptitude that seems to be the special genius of Amtrak in these last few years.


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 19, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> We tend to agree with this opinion. (To think otherwise is to credit Amtrak management with coming up with stratagem worthy of a Borgia!) This whole sorry situation most likely came about through the ineptitude that seems to be the special genius of Amtrak in these last few years.


Amtrak! We can't find our butts with both hands!


----------



## Trollopian (Jun 19, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> They aren't that smart. The people getting downgraded/cancelled are the ones booked into the dropped car, irrespective of what bucket their ticket was in. Likewise, the ones booked into the operating car get to keep theirs, irrespective of fare bucket.



Hanlon's razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


----------



## PaTrainFan (Jun 19, 2022)

Let's hope our friends at RPA are on this, not only directly with Amtrak but through their contacts and Amtrak's allies on Capitol Hill. Maybe that can squeeze this in between appeals for money from its members.


----------



## Eric in East County (Jun 19, 2022)

We just read an Associated Press article dated June 18 with the headline CANCELED FLIGHTS RISE ACROSS U.S. AS SUMMER TRAVEL HEATS UP. The article attributes these widespread cancellations to bad weather and shortages of workers, especially pilots. Perhaps we should solace ourselves with the reflection that things are just as bad for airline passengers.


----------



## jis (Jun 19, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> We just read an Associated Press article dated June 18 with the headline CANCELED FLIGHTS RISE ACROSS U.S. AS SUMMER TRAVEL HEATS UP. The article attributes these widespread cancellations to bad weather and shortages of workers, especially pilots. Perhaps we should solace ourselves with the reflection that things are just as bad for airline passengers.


These problems are pretty much across the board in the transportation industry, freight or passenger.

Airlines are also facing the problems of last minute cancellations and change of equipment leading to downgrades or bumping. The thing that the airlines have going for them though is that most routes have multiple frequencies during the day providing greater flexibility for accommodating people sooner, but still a delay of a day or two are not unheard of.

Al in all it is an ongoing mess.


----------



## Ryan (Jun 19, 2022)

If sleepers are being downgraded to coach because of a lack of cars/staff, the notion without evidence that they're booting people then reselling the space at a higher price is utterly absurd. But hey, anything that feeds the "AmtRAk MAnaGeMEnT SuckS!!!" narrative, right?


----------



## tricia (Jun 19, 2022)

Ryan said:


> If sleepers are being downgraded to coach because of a lack of cars/staff, the notion without evidence that they're booting people then reselling the space at a higher price is utterly absurd. But hey, anything that feeds the "AmtRAk MAnaGeMEnT SuckS!!!" narrative, right?


IIRC, there's a post or series of posts up above here somewhere detailing someone's experience with having their room cancelled, then having to pay more to re-book at a later date. That doesn't have to be an intentional revenue-enhancing strategy for the customer to feel abused by it.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jun 19, 2022)

The explanation of having one car removed and subsequent downgrade of the passengers in that car (regardless of fare paid) makes sense. Especially given some of the apparent antiquities in the booking system. But to say that it's "absurd" to think that paying more for an accommodation might result in differential treatment, is ignoring things that really, truly do happen in other transportation sectors. I've had the fun experience of hotel room downgrades twice after having booked in advance, loyalty be damned, and the hotels in question did not even deny it when I asked. In both cases it resulted in a modest credit which was... better than nothing, not enough that I'd ever rebook there. In the airline world, where I had personal work experience in another life... oh I could tell you a few things but not on an online forum.


----------



## cpl100 (Jun 21, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Agree it is a straightforward cancelling/downgrading passengers unlucky enough booked in the dropped car. They don't appear to be doing any shuffling of passengers around based on date booked, price paid, or anything else.
> 
> I doubt it is a strategy. It's just a s show that they're bumbling through.
> 
> Making sure I am in the 30/00/11/whatever "base" sleeper car on any trains until this hurricane of incompetence is over.


How do you ensure that at time of booking please?


----------



## Ryan (Jun 21, 2022)

Call and ask for a specific car.


----------



## cpl100 (Jun 21, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Call and ask for a specific car.


Thank you. If I ask for the base sleeper car, will that be enough information? This will be my first booking in sleeper car so unfamiliar with it all.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Jun 21, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Call and ask for a specific car.


What specific car should we ask for?

Should it be the responsibility of the customer to know that some cars could be taken off “cause we felt like it” ?


----------



## trimetbusfan (Jun 21, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> What specific car should we ask for?
> 
> Should it be the responsibility of the customer to know that some cars could be taken off “cause we felt like it” ?


Depends on the route. Usually the ‘30’ car is the base sleeper on most superliner routes. 

For viewliner routes, it’s ‘00’ or ‘10’


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 21, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> What specific car should we ask for?
> 
> Should it be the responsibility of the customer to know that some cars could be taken off “cause we felt like it” ?


No, but like many things with Amtrak, like the 5 yield management fare buckets to the size of room A, some knowledge goes a long way and sharing such useful info is one of the primary benefits of this board.

30 car on western Superliner trains, except the CZ, which is 31.

00 on the Capitol Limited

10 on most Viewliners, except the LSL where 10 is the Boston sleeper and 11 is the base New York one.

The call center won't know what a "base" sleeper is. I made up the term on the spot when I remembered what I almost wrote, the "30 car", while used on the many trains and the ones I ride the most, isn't universal and I reached for a term. "Minimum consist sleeper" seemed
awkward and I felt "base" would be intuitive to most here.


----------



## jis (Jun 21, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> 10 on most Viewliners, except the LSL where 10 is the Boston sleeper and 11 is the base New York one.


The Boston Sleeper used to be 20. When did that change?


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 21, 2022)

jis said:


> The Boston Sleeper used to be 20. When did that change?


It was that way in my November 2021 trip. The New York section had 11 & 12 and the Boston section 10, though I am not absolutely sure of the Boston section's sleeper car line number. I was in the 11 both directions and it was the sleeper closest to Viewliner diner, the 12 was trailing it (and was a V2). I never walked forward inside the train and only walked by the Boston sleeper at Albany when I walked back from watching them combine the sections (I watched the split from the footbridge heading east). I glanced at the car line number of the Boston sleeper, but I am not positive now it was 10, like I am 11 & 12 for the NY sleepers. I recall being a bit surprised when 11 was the first NY sleeper.

Perhaps someone in Massachusetts or upstate New York could verify? I don't get back there much, though I'll be riding the LSL again in November and will try to remember to check it then.


----------



## cpl100 (Jun 21, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Depends on the route. Usually the ‘30’ car is the base sleeper on most superliner routes.
> 
> For viewliner routes, it’s ‘00’ or ‘10’





zephyr17 said:


> It was that way in my November 2021 trip. The New York section had 11 & 12 and the Boston section 10, though I am not absolutely sure of the Boston section's sleeper car line number. I was in the 11 both directions and it was the sleeper closest to Viewliner diner, the 12 was trailing it (and was a V2). I never walked forward inside the train and only walked by the Boston sleeper at Albany when I walked back from watching them combine the sections (I watched the split from the footbridge heading east). I glanced at the car line number of the Boston sleeper, but I am not positive now it was 10, like I am 11 & 12 for the NY sleepers. I recall being a bit surprised when 11 was the first NY sleeper.
> 
> Perhaps someone in Massachusetts or upstate New York could verify? I don't get back there much, though I'll be riding the LSL again in November and will try to remember to check it then.



Does anyone know what it would be for the Auto Train please?


----------



## zephyr17 (Jun 21, 2022)

cpl100 said:


> Does anyone know what it would be for the Auto Train please?


I wouldn't worry too much about them dropping already booked sleepers from the Auto Train very much. It's always been somebody's baby at Amtrak, and it has its own pool of Superliners that it doesn't share with the national pool of all other Superliner trains and also has somewhat independent maintenance (big jobs still have to go to Beech Grove). I doubt this massive cluster coitus is going to affect it.


----------



## joelkfla (Jun 21, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about them dropping already booked sleepers from the Auto Train very much. It's always been somebody's baby at Amtrak, and it has its own pool of Superliners that it doesn't share with the national pool of all other Superliner trains and also has somewhat independent maintenance (big jobs still have to go to Beech Grove). I doubt this massive cluster coitus is going to affect it.


And it has a large number of sleepers, like 7 on today's southbound. The number of cars varies day to day.


----------



## Ryan (Jun 21, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Should it be the responsibility of the customer to know that some cars could be taken off “cause we felt like it” ?


It shouldn't, since that isn't what's happening.


----------



## lordsigma (Jun 21, 2022)

Auto Train is understaffed like everywhere though I'm not sure it had quite as many furloughed staff given the train continued daily thru early COVID. But despite that it's still understaffed I'm guessing from retirements and resignations.


----------

