# sandals?



## SeeBuyFly (Aug 20, 2013)

I understand there are some footwear rules on Amtrak but I can't find the exact language. I don't normally wear closed shoes in the summer and so don't want to carry them. I fully realize that flip-flops would be dangerous; what I would wear is 'hiking' sandals. The soles are at least as solid as those of shoes, but of course they are open-toed. Is this a problem?

I guess I'm not so much asking whether any posters disapprove, but whether the rules require closed-toe shoes for crossing from one coach to the other, and whether such rules are enforced.

Many thanks,


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## Steve4031 (Aug 20, 2013)

I don't know what the rule requires, but IMHO a closed toed shoe would be safer. How much do you value your toes?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 20, 2013)

SeeBuyFly said:


> I understand there are some footwear rules on Amtrak but I can't find the exact language. I don't normally wear closed shoes in the summer and so don't want to carry them. I fully realize that flip-flops would be dangerous; what I would wear is 'hiking' sandals. The soles are at least as solid as those of shoes, but of course they are open-toed. Is this a problem? I guess I'm not so much asking whether any posters disapprove, but whether the rules require closed-toe shoes for crossing from one coach to the other, and whether such rules are enforced. Many thanks,


I wear Nike or Reebok All Condition Gear Sandals while on Trains and have never had any problems nor had any OBS or Conductor tell me not to wear them! They do make constant announcements about not going Barefoot, nor wearing Flip Flops when you pass between Cars since the Plates in the Vestibules can Bite!  Just be sure and watch your step when walking on a train! If its Cold wear Sneakers, thats my Winter Go To Footwear!


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## Ted Bell (Aug 20, 2013)

Just arrived home this morning on the California Zephyr with my daughters. It never crossed my mind that wearing flip-flops wasn't a good idea but I can see what you mean, it probably wasn't a good choice of footwear for them. Is it simply a suggestion or an actual rule not to wear open-toed shoes on the train? If it is actually a rule I didn't see or hear any enforcement.


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## roomette (Aug 20, 2013)

I once searched for any evidence of someone losing a toe because they weren't wearing closed toe shoes on Amtrtak.

To no avail. I wear flip flops and carefully watch my step between cars. No one ever said I couldn't wear them and plenty of staff saw them on my feet.


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## ozbuc (Aug 20, 2013)

Before our last trip on the CS I remember reading something about open toe shoes not being allowed. I wore sandals any way as I always have. I bring flip flops for going to the head at night.


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## leemell (Aug 20, 2013)

ozbuc said:


> Before our last trip on the CS I remember reading something about open toe shoes not being allowed. I wore sandals any way as I always have. I bring flip flops for going to the head at night.


From the Amtrak OBS Handbook:

When moving about the train, hold on to the overhead luggage
rack and the seatbacks for stability. When passing through the
vestibules between cars, please use the handrails and when
moving about the train, shoes must be worn at all times.


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## Michael061282 (Aug 20, 2013)

but what constitutes a shoe?

I've never been told anything about sandals, I usually wear them on the train, unless I'm going to dinner. Its a lot easier to just slip sandals on in the middle of the night for a quick bathroom or snack run.


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 20, 2013)

Flip flops should only be worn at the beach or public showers. At least that's my opinion. Hate me if you must.


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## SarahZ (Aug 20, 2013)

Per the TSA, flip-flops are "shoes". I had to take mine off when going through security. 

Anyway, I wouldn't wear flip-flops when walking between cars, but I do wear them at night when walking just a few steps to the restroom on the top level of the sleepers. If I'm going between cars or going downstairs, I wear flats, which are easy to slip on and off but protect my toes and stay on my feet a lot more securely.


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## roomette (Aug 20, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> Flip flops should only be worn at the beach or public showers. At least that's my opinion. Hate me if you must.


On time I wore flip flops in my living room. I hate you, I must.


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## trainman74 (Aug 20, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> Flip flops should only be worn at the beach or public showers. At least that's my opinion. Hate me if you must.


What about for the walk between my Superliner roomette and the public shower?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 20, 2013)

One time I was wearing a pair of hard soled Moccasins and when I passed through the Diner, one of the servers said I couldn't wear socks! Immediately the LSA jumped in her face and said those are proper Moccasins and he can wear them anywhere he wants (she had seen them earlier and was curious where to get a pair). The server immediately disappeared into the ghosts of the former Espee passengers who enjoyed that Diner many years back.


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## the_traveler (Aug 20, 2013)

The shoes that I normally wear everyday are slip-ons, closed toed and they have a tread on the sole. They are much easier to slip on quickly than the slippers I sometimes wear around the house.

To the other poster's question regarding moving about in the same car, no problem. But if moving between cars, I myself would rather have a closed toe shoe. I have 5 toes per foot when I board and would like to have 5 toes per foot when I get off.

My 2¢ worth.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 20, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> The shoes that I normally wear everyday are slip-ons, closed toed and they have a tread on the sole. They are much easier to slip on quickly than the slippers I sometimes wear around the house.
> To the other poster's question regarding moving about in the same car, no problem. But if moving between cars, I myself would rather have a closed toe shoe. I have 5 toes per foot when I board and would like to have 5 toes per foot when I get off.
> 
> My 2¢ worth.


I agree! Anything closed-toed is fine for the train. It can be open-heeled slip-ons as long as you walk carefully. But anything with open toes can be very dangerous and should not be worn on the train. Maybe OK for going to the lavatory, but no good if you're walking betweens cars. Not only could your toes get stuck or cut off, you would eaily slip and fall, or someone _else_ could bump into you and stomp a mighty pain into your foot. No good for the train ride.

Again, I know that most Amtrak crews don't care, but for your own good, just don't do it!


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## caravanman (Aug 21, 2013)

I always wear open toe sandals, and never had a problem on Amtrak... I don't think you should worry too much!

Ed


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## MrMattyMatt (Aug 21, 2013)

I wore flip-flops on my last trip - no issues.


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## SeeBuyFly (Aug 21, 2013)

Many thanks for the replies!

I will try to keep clear of the reputed toe-chopping machine, but in many years of train travel in other countries, I have never seen one. Maybe it was specially designed for Amtrak.


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## tonys96 (Aug 21, 2013)

I wear sandals all the time. Velcro closures on the top of the foot...not slip ons or flip flops.

Our CSA on EB last week said he saw a lady get a toe hung a few months ago.


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## Phil S (Aug 21, 2013)

Flip-flops work fine if you're reasonably well coordinated and careful. But do take a moment and look at how the toe-chopping machine works!

The most dangerous places are IMO the transitions into and out of the Pacific Parlour cars because of the difference in height.


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## roomette (Aug 21, 2013)

WellTrained said:


> Flip-flops work fine if you're reasonably well coordinated and careful. But do take a moment and look at how the toe-chopping machine works!
> The most dangerous places are IMO the transitions into and out of the Pacific Parlour cars because of the difference in height.


One might assume those against flip flops are not reasonably well coordinated. Also, what the heck is a "Toe Hung"?


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## fillyjonk (Aug 21, 2013)

I wear Birkenstock sandals all the time when riding Amtrak and no one's said boo to me. Of course, they do have fairly thick and rigid soles (at least, compared to flip flops).

I'm guessing hiking sandals would be just fine.


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## zepherdude (Aug 21, 2013)

I see many of you folks saying Flip Flops are ok for me, or, I know how to walk. But what if you mistepped or got your toe misplaced just once. Well, you would almost loose your toe, want to sue everyone for not tellings you its NOT ok to walk around in flip flops. All it takes is one mistep and your dead meat. I imagine a toe between 2 cars at 79 MPH does not feel too good.

I was in a station that had AMR Turbo Prop airplanes. The Nbr. 2 engine was rotatating and (co pilots side) not fast, just for ground power. A young lady, who was a ramper for American Eagle was joking around and walked into the engine blade. You can imagine what happened.

Why tickle fate? Just wear shoes when crossing car to car, just do what is asked of you and arrive with 2 good feet.


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## the Other Mike (Aug 21, 2013)

*I like waffles*


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## SarahZ (Aug 21, 2013)

If I wore flip-flops while walking between cars and got my toe chopped off, I wouldn't sue Amtrak. It would be my own dumb fault for stepping too close to the sliding plates.

On the occasions I do wear flip-flops when walking around the train, I give the toe chopper a wide step. I've never had issues walking in flip-flops, and I always hang onto the candy canes, so I'm not concerned. I wear boots most of the time; the flip-flops are for nighttime when I'm in pajamas and don't feel like putting my boots on.


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## roomette (Aug 21, 2013)

*I like turtles. *

And I also suspect if you got your toe misplaced just once, a thin layer of leather or plastic would provide little protection in the 'chopping off' process.


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## zepherdude (Aug 21, 2013)

Well, look at it this way, if you followed the rules and wore shoes, then you might have a case for a lawsuit. No chance with open toes shoes.


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## SeeBuyFly (Aug 21, 2013)

I have not yet been on Amtrak , but every other train I've ever seen has two metal plates, one attached to each coach , one resting on the other. Sure, they slide against each other as the train moves. Anyone with half a brain takes a bigger than usual step to avoid the area where the plates meet. Is this a big deal? Is it less safe than driving? I don't think so.

There is some level of obsession in this country with eliminating infinitesimal risks while leaving the big risks intact.

If you lose a toe, should you sue Amtrak or sue your parents?


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## roomette (Aug 21, 2013)

Exactly! And, it only takes 1/2 a brain!


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## amamba (Aug 21, 2013)

I almost always wear a variation of these (in black) as my go-to summer sandal, and no one has ever told me not to wear them on the train.

The horror - open toed and high heeled! :help:


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## the_traveler (Aug 21, 2013)

That's part of the problem - too many people have less than half a brain. And many people (and many lawyers) are lawsuit happy. 

Have you noticed when there is some kind of accident (car, train, plane, etc...), the following are sued:

The manufacturer of the car/train/plane

The airline/Amtrak

The city/town/village of _____

If a plane crash, the airport of ______

The state of ______

The driver/engineer/pilot

Etc..., Etc...

What do most of these have to do with the accident? :huh: And if you fall (like on the street, in the train or on the plane), it certainly is NEVER your fault - it is someone else! So they must be sued!


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## ScottRu (Aug 21, 2013)

Kneen sandals (easy to take off and put on, hard plate to protect the toes) work fine for me. But I agree with whomever noted that very few shoes, short of combat boots, would protect toes if they really get caught between metal plates between cars.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 21, 2013)

amamba said:


> I almost always wear a variation of these (in black) as my go-to summer sandal, and no one has ever told me not to wear them on the train.
> The horror - open toed and high heeled! :help:


Wow! Summer must be pretty Hot in RI!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 21, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> I wear sandals all the time. Velcro closures on the top of the foot...not slip ons or flip flops.
> Our CSA on EB last week said he saw a lady get a toe hung a few months ago.


That accident is a great reward for stupidity!



zepherdude said:


> I see many of you folks saying Flip Flops are ok for me, or, I know how to walk. But what if you mistepped or got your toe misplaced just once. Well, you would almost loose your toe, want to sue everyone for not tellings you its NOT ok to walk around in flip flops. All it takes is one mistep and your dead meat. I imagine a toe between 2 cars at 79 MPH does not feel too good.
> I was in a station that had AMR Turbo Prop airplanes. The Nbr. 2 engine was rotatating and (co pilots side) not fast, just for ground power. A young lady, who was a ramper for American Eagle was joking around and walked into the engine blade. You can imagine what happened.
> 
> Why tickle fate? Just wear shoes when crossing car to car, just do what is asked of you and arrive with 2 good feet.


Agreed! Don't mess around on a train, as I said before, don't wear light-duty footwear on heavy-duty equipment!



the_traveler said:


> That's part of the problem - too many people have less than half a brain. And many people (and many lawyers) are lawsuit happy.
> Have you noticed when there is some kind of accident (car, train, plane, etc...), the following are sued:
> 
> The manufacturer of the car/train/plane
> ...


I know, right? The same thing happens with Greyhound, when people sue them just to sqeeze money out! Just becasue you won't sue Amtrak for losing a toe dosen't mean you should wear anything open-toed on the big heavy steel train!


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## BCL (Aug 21, 2013)

I'm just thinking, wow.

I can't think of any situation where "shoes" are required by some sort of health code that sandals, flip-flops, etc don't qualify. In any case, such ordinances are rare. Most requirements for customers to wear shirts and shoes are instituted by a business and not by law. Amtrak is a business. Their requirements to wear shoes are in that spirit of a business requiring shoes for aesthetic reasons. This guy researched cities that had requirements for shoes in places that served food. A lot were in Massachusetts.

http://www.ahcuah.com/bf/govshoe.htm

Short of steel-toed boots (and I own a pair) nothing is going to protect one's toes if there's anything that could lop off a toe. I wear running shoes all the time, and they're hardly any protection against toe injury.

Now Fort Lauderdale apparently has a law that requires that footwear we worn at city owned stadium (used for Spring training) - sufficient to protect from broken glass.


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## SarahZ (Aug 21, 2013)

Exactly. Closed-toed shoes don't mean you won't lose a toe or foot. Sure, they can help prevent that, but I really don't feel like lacing up my boots over my bare feet to walk six feet to the bathroom. I'll take my chances with my flip-flops or slippers.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 21, 2013)

The key to safely transiting between cars is to be _*FULLY*_ aware of what you are doing. When the first door opens I grab the Candy Cane Bar and push off being careful to make sure my feet are nowhere near the Striker Plate Boundary when they cross. At the same time I am grabbing the Candy Cane of the next car and pulling myself across as the door opens. Those bars are clearly marked for a purpose and good Conductors regularly remind folks to use them. Safe, smooth and easy.


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## GG-1 (Aug 21, 2013)

Aloha

I volunteer at the Nevada Southern Railway Museum. Our track was built in 1931 for freight. Out top speed in maybe 20 mph, and we only travel 3.5 miles and return. Our cars range in age from about 50 to 103 years old. I explain this because the equipment and track is not smooth.

On one trip a "mother" was encouraging her approximately 6 year old son to stand on the 2 moving plates.  when after I threatened her that I was going to notify the conductor (which I did) if they didn't return to their seat she complained to him that I was picking on her. He informed her that if they got blood on his train they would have to clean it up.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 21, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> Exactly. Closed-toed shoes don't mean you won't lose a toe or foot. Sure, they can help prevent that, but I really don't feel like lacing up my boots over my bare feet to walk six feet to the bathroom. I'll take my chances with my flip-flops or slippers.


Even if you don't get your toes cut off, it's still a lot easier to have an accident with open-toed rather then closed-toed shoes. What if you get bumped into or stepped on?


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## Alice (Aug 22, 2013)

I don't think recommendations against sandals are to keep toes from being sliced off. I think it is to keep people from tripping on loose shoes that fall off easily or get caught on uneven moving surfaces. That doesn't apply to OP's hiking sandals, and also doesn't apply to Sorcha's 6 feet to the bathroom.

Wearing headphones or talking on a cell phone while walking through the cars is probably more dangerous anyway ... from lack of attention!

(A sandal wearer)


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## the Other Mike (Aug 22, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> Flip flops should only be worn at the beach or public showers. At least that's my opinion. Hate me if you must.


I hate you but I never wear flip flops because my toes are, UGLY


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## oldtimer (Aug 22, 2013)

If there is an accident with a passenger and the car end plates the conductor is put on the spot:

He must decide whether to call an ambulance or a tow truck!


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## roomette (Aug 22, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> If there is an accident with a passenger and the car end plates the conductor is put on the spot:He must decide whether to call an ambulance or a tow truck!


Can anyone cite one instance where something like this did in fact actually happen? I can't find anything, anywhere on the Internet. I'm jonesing for some medical documentation and images!


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## train_person (Aug 22, 2013)

SeeBuyFly said:


> Many thanks for the replies!
> I will try to keep clear of the reputed toe-chopping machine, but in many years of train travel in other countries, I have never seen one. Maybe it was specially designed for Amtrak.


I doubt you would. It seems to be a USA only paranoia about leaving the train with less toes than when you got on.


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## roomette (Aug 22, 2013)




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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 23, 2013)

Two metal plate are in motion, while losing a toe might be a stretch, stepping on (across) the two plate with out foot gear can cause you to lose a bit of skin as it will suck in some and rip it off your foot. Yes that going to hurt, and there will be blood.

Good advise given above on how to cross. Just adding not to hang out in that area. I have see way too much daylight coming in when the train bounces around in a curve.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 23, 2013)

Just avoid all the stress and don't wear open-toed shoes on the train! Or bus, plane, or car for that matter. What's the big deal? Just don't do it!


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## NW cannonball (Aug 24, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Just avoid all the stress and don't wear open-toed shoes on the train! Or bus, plane, or car for that matter. What's the big deal? Just don't do it!


Prudent advice -- even though crossing between cars isn't dangerous to feet * if and only if *you watch your step really carefully and use the grab irons (those hand-holds with the red-and-white stripes)

And - going wildly off-topic here - even if your sandals were the ancient Roman combat boots it would be prudent to use more secure footwear when traveling.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 24, 2013)

NW cannonball said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Just avoid all the stress and don't wear open-toed shoes on the train! Or bus, plane, or car for that matter. What's the big deal? Just don't do it!
> ...


And not just that, but you could slip and fall in the aisles and stairs, etc. I'm sure no one wants to get bumped, stepped on, then fall off the stairs!


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## junebug (Aug 24, 2013)

I wear Birkenstock sandals on the train usually. I like to be able to take them off easily. I think flip flops might be pushing it a little, just my opinion. I'd be afraid of slipping; the bottoms of flip flops get pretty slick after awhile.


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## junebug (Aug 24, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> If there is an accident with a passenger and the car end plates the conductor is put on the spot:He must decide whether to call an ambulance or a tow truck!


A toe truck? :huh:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 24, 2013)

junebug said:


> I wear Birkenstock sandals on the train usually. I like to be able to take them off easily. I think flip flops might be pushing it a little, just my opinion. I'd be afraid of slipping; the bottoms of flip flops get pretty slick after awhile.


No offence, but it really isn't that smart wear sandals in the train. Something that can be taken off easily is too light and undependable for use on the train. Anything good enough to not slip while walking would be quite heavy and hard to take off.

Plus, most sandals don't offer arch support and are poor for foot health due to the constant urge to grip onto the sandal. So they're not a good idea anywhere, but even worse on the train.


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## CHamilton (Aug 24, 2013)

junebug said:


> A toe truck? :huh:









http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Quid-pro-toe-Truck-Bon-signs-to-get-a-new-life-1165630.php


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## junebug (Aug 24, 2013)

HAHA, love the toe trucks!

Birkenstocks have a lot of support, have you seen them, Swadian? And they have rubber tire-like tread on them -- no problems going from car to car. Even if I kicked my foot really high, they would not fly off. The only danger I could see is from something dropping on my foot.

Birkenstocks have worked for my past three cross country train trips. Jeez, I am going on a long trip next week - now you are making me thing about getting hard shoes which I don't even have! Unless you count my Nikes and New Balance shoes, but they are not particularly hard.


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## CHamilton (Aug 25, 2013)

junebug said:


> The only danger I could see is from something dropping on my foot.


Or someone stepping on your toes. I did that to some poor lady on the Canadian -- not on purpose, of course, but because the train jerked just as I was walking past her -- and since I'm a big guy and she was in sandals, I'm sure that she had bruises as a result. I ended up being seated across from her at the next meal, and she just barely talked to me. So I would encourage everyone to wear protective footwear!


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> junebug said:
> 
> 
> > The only danger I could see is from something dropping on my foot.
> ...


Oy vey, Ch. I guess I have to bring real shoes. Gosh darn it! I've gotten away with sandals and no real shoes since May. *Sniff* That means I can't show off my painted toesie nails on the train. *Sniff*

And gym shoes will look mighty clunky with the cute dress I was going to wear. Double *sniff*.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 25, 2013)

junebug said:


> HAHA, love the toe trucks!
> Birkenstocks have a lot of support, have you seen them, Swadian? And they have rubber tire-like tread on them -- no problems going from car to car. Even if I kicked my foot really high, they would not fly off. The only danger I could see is from something dropping on my foot.
> 
> Birkenstocks have worked for my past three cross country train trips. Jeez, I am going on a long trip next week - now you are making me thing about getting hard shoes which I don't even have! Unless you count my Nikes and New Balance shoes, but they are not particularly hard.


You should probably but some hard shoes anyway. It's always useful to have some more durable shows hanging out in case you need it.



CHamilton said:


> junebug said:
> 
> 
> > The only danger I could see is from something dropping on my foot.
> ...


Plus, things like this happen a lot, too. On a train that's rocking and rolling, it's easy to get stepped on for a mojor injury. I also hate those traps on the top, they feel hard and uncomfortable when you walk around in them, so I rarely ever wear open-toed shoes at all.

Personally, I just save myself the trouble and wear sneakers on the train. Versatile shoes, especially for hiking around. Same thing on the bus.


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm a slouch I guess. Even when my son and I have gone to Yosemite, Big Sur, Sonoma, Ashland, Oregon (side trips from where he lives in the Bay Area) I have worn sandals. :blush:


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

HOWEVER,



roomette said:


>


!!!!!!!


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## zepherdude (Aug 25, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> Flip flops should only be worn at the beach or public showers. At least that's my opinion. Hate me if you must.


I Agree! I don't hate you! There is so much hate already, why hate on a guy that hates on flip flops. I hate hate anyways, Mike, don't you? PS, I hate flip flops too! Flip Flops on a train, in a plane, in church, at dinner, proly at the MTV Awards tonight, in an office (yuk), at the store, through the door, flip flop, flip flop on the floor.


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

Let's go back to the 50's where people dressed up to travel. And white gloves for the ladies


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## GG-1 (Aug 25, 2013)

junebug said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> > junebug said:
> ...


Well Glass Slippers would look nice and afford more protection, NOT :lol:


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

Okay, Engineer, it's decided then. I'm wearing my glass high heels


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## Shortline (Aug 25, 2013)

While I'm a huge believer in the "Salt Life" philosophy of keep it cool, and chill, and rarely ware anything other than flip flops when not at work, or otherwise forced to dress in something resembling decency, I do wear decent footwear when travelling. Not because of the car end plates, or because someone might step on me-I can avoid one, and live through the other-But in my work, I spend a ton of time travelling, by plane, train, and even ship once. Could I have worn flip flops? Sure. Did I? No way. Not for the reasons one might think, but for the reasons no one likes to think about-Accidents and incidents. If I am on a plane, or train, or car, and there is an emergency-A derailment, crash landing, or other accident, I really don't want to be evacuating a railcar, plane, or any other vehicle wearing flip flops. There will be shart metal. There will be broken glass. There will be rocks, hot pavement, etc. I want to be able to get away, without having to tip toe. Having spent 8 years flying in the Air Force, and having to make 3 or 4 ground evacuations from the aircraft due to real-world emergencies, I make a point to always travel in pants and shoes I can run in and not lose them in an impact. The pants in lieu of shorts (especially while flying) are to protect against flash fires common in crashes. While I don't wear nomex flame retardant suits, I do consider what I'm wearing, from a safety perspective-I want to ensure I have every available advantage, should an incident occur. Yes, it's highly unlikely I will ever have to exit a buring aircraft, train on it's side, etc, but if I do, I know I have good shoes on to run, clothing to provide a reasonable level of protection, and a pin flashlight at a minimum, to help me get out. Color me paranoid, but as often as I travel, the odds that I'll be involved in some serious survival situation, are very low, but still very much greater than someone who travels once or twice a year. When I book hotel rooms, I request the 2nd floor when available, off the street level to avoid someone coming into the window, but low enough to get out if I had to, easily. If I end up higher, I typically have a plan to get out from high up as well. I'm not paranoid, but I am prepared!


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

Shortline said:


> While I'm a huge believer in the "Salt Life" philosophy of keep it cool, and chill, and rarely ware anything other than flip flops when not at work, or otherwise forced to dress in something resembling decency, I do wear decent footwear when travelling. Not because of the car end plates, or because someone might step on me-I can avoid one, and live through the other-But in my work, I spend a ton of time travelling, by plane, train, and even ship once. Could I have worn flip flops? Sure. Did I? No way. Not for the reasons one might think, but for the reasons no one likes to think about-Accidents and incidents. If I am on a plane, or train, or car, and there is an emergency-A derailment, crash landing, or other accident, I really don't want to be evacuating a railcar, plane, or any other vehicle wearing flip flops. There will be shart metal. There will be broken glass. There will be rocks, hot pavement, etc. I want to be able to get away, without having to tip toe. Having spent 8 years flying in the Air Force, and having to make 3 or 4 ground evacuations from the aircraft due to real-world emergencies, I make a point to always travel in pants and shoes I can run in and not lose them in an impact. The pants in lieu of shorts (especially while flying) are to protect against flash fires common in crashes. While I don't wear nomex flame retardant suits, I do consider what I'm wearing, from a safety perspective-I want to ensure I have every available advantage, should an incident occur. Yes, it's highly unlikely I will ever have to exit a buring aircraft, train on it's side, etc, but if I do, I know I have good shoes on to run, clothing to provide a reasonable level of protection, and a pin flashlight at a minimum, to help me get out. Color me paranoid, but as often as I travel, the odds that I'll be involved in some serious survival situation, are very low, but still very much greater than someone who travels once or twice a year. When I book hotel rooms, I request the 2nd floor when available, off the street level to avoid someone coming into the window, but low enough to get out if I had to, easily. If I end up higher, I typically have a plan to get out from high up as well. I'm not paranoid, but I am prepared!


Excellent explanation! And so true.


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## MooCow (Aug 25, 2013)

Shortline said:


> Yes, it's highly unlikely I will ever have to exit a buring aircraft, train on it's side, etc, but if I do, I know I have good shoes on to run, clothing to provide a reasonable level of protection, and a pin flashlight at a minimum, to help me get out.


It is highly unlikely that I will win the Nobel Peace Prize, but just in case I do and there are photographers at the next stop, I always wear my dress shoes.


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## SarahZ (Aug 25, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. Closed-toed shoes don't mean you won't lose a toe or foot. Sure, they can help prevent that, but I really don't feel like lacing up my boots over my bare feet to walk six feet to the bathroom. I'll take my chances with my flip-flops or slippers.
> ...


In those six feet between my roomette and the bathroom at 3:00 AM?

Not worried.


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Sorcha said:
> ...


Oh gosh, Sorcha, I wear my jammy bottoms and a t-shirt to the bathroom at 3 a.m. With my Birkenstocks


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## junebug (Aug 25, 2013)

MooCow said:


> Shortline said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it's highly unlikely I will ever have to exit a buring aircraft, train on it's side, etc, but if I do, I know I have good shoes on to run, clothing to provide a reasonable level of protection, and a pin flashlight at a minimum, to help me get out.
> ...


You never know! There might be photographers. I suggest a suit and tie.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 25, 2013)

Shortline said:


> While I'm a huge believer in the "Salt Life" philosophy of keep it cool, and chill, and rarely ware anything other than flip flops when not at work, or otherwise forced to dress in something resembling decency, I do wear decent footwear when travelling. Not because of the car end plates, or because someone might step on me-I can avoid one, and live through the other-But in my work, I spend a ton of time travelling, by plane, train, and even ship once. Could I have worn flip flops? Sure. Did I? No way. Not for the reasons one might think, but for the reasons no one likes to think about-Accidents and incidents. If I am on a plane, or train, or car, and there is an emergency-A derailment, crash landing, or other accident, I really don't want to be evacuating a railcar, plane, or any other vehicle wearing flip flops. There will be shart metal. There will be broken glass. There will be rocks, hot pavement, etc. I want to be able to get away, without having to tip toe. Having spent 8 years flying in the Air Force, and having to make 3 or 4 ground evacuations from the aircraft due to real-world emergencies, I make a point to always travel in pants and shoes I can run in and not lose them in an impact. The pants in lieu of shorts (especially while flying) are to protect against flash fires common in crashes. While I don't wear nomex flame retardant suits, I do consider what I'm wearing, from a safety perspective-I want to ensure I have every available advantage, should an incident occur. Yes, it's highly unlikely I will ever have to exit a buring aircraft, train on it's side, etc, but if I do, I know I have good shoes on to run, clothing to provide a reasonable level of protection, and a pin flashlight at a minimum, to help me get out. Color me paranoid, but as often as I travel, the odds that I'll be involved in some serious survival situation, are very low, but still very much greater than someone who travels once or twice a year. When I book hotel rooms, I request the 2nd floor when available, off the street level to avoid someone coming into the window, but low enough to get out if I had to, easily. If I end up higher, I typically have a plan to get out from high up as well. I'm not paranoid, but I am prepared!


 Bravo! Especially when I look at those fool who wear "cute" and "stylish" clothing and footwear on the dangerous Megabus, it's gonna send a bunch more degradation piling on to Megabus riders. Sure, people think we Greyhound riders are dirty and suspicous, but we at least know to take safety over appearence.

Junebug, there's already too many people wearing "cute dresses" and open-toed shoes on the Megabus, don't make the issues on Amtrak! Sneakers won't land you the same problems.


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## junebug (Aug 26, 2013)

We really need a "like" button around here


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 26, 2013)

junebug said:


> We really need a "like" button around here


Hmm, used to be that, but got removed presumably because people were misusing it..... :wub:


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## AlanB (Aug 26, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> junebug said:
> 
> 
> > We really need a "like" button around here
> ...


Nope, we've never had a "like" button on here.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 27, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > junebug said:
> ...


Oh, sorry. Made a mistake. I thought I heard about something like it somewhere.


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## junebug (Aug 27, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > junebug said:
> ...


I *like* that!

Who abused the "like" button, that's what I want to know. For shame! 

Okay I need to be packing for tomorrow's Amazing Amtrak Adventure... What am I doing here?


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## Alec (Feb 24, 2014)

On a plane, I always wear flip flops. They're so much more comfortable, and they make getting through the checkpoint significantly smoother. In the unlikely event that the plane crashed, I have a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't be concerned about my footwear. Mostly because there's a pretty safe bet that I'd be dead. On the even more unlikely event that I survived, I still think that my footwear would be the least of my concerns at that point.

As for Trains, I've never really thought about it too much. I've tended to opt for comfort and go sandals/flip flops there, too, but I'm much more open to the arguments and concerns raised re: flip flops on a train as opposed to on a plane.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 24, 2014)

Alec said:


> On a plane, I always wear flip flops. They're so much more comfortable, and they make getting through the checkpoint significantly smoother. In the unlikely event that the plane crashed, I have a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't be concerned about my footwear. *Mostly because there's a pretty safe bet that I'd be dead*. On the even more unlikely event that I survived, *I still think that my footwear would be the least of my concerns at that point*.
> 
> As for Trains, I've never really thought about it too much. I've tended to opt for comfort and go sandals/flip flops there, too, but I'm much more open to the arguments and concerns raised re: flip flops on a train as opposed to on a plane.


1st bold: Really? Seems to me that a lot of people survive plane crashes. How many survived the one at SFO. And two that didn't were not killed by the crash, but by accident when they were covered by the foam and a truck ran over them.

2nd bold: Don't suppose there'd be hot and/or sharp objects to step on after a crash. Hmm?


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## TinCan782 (Feb 24, 2014)

There is a foot injury danger when stepping between cars

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## SarahZ (Feb 24, 2014)

FrensicPic said:


> There is a foot injury danger when stepping between cars


Correct. Alec, it's easy for a sandal or flip-flip to get caught between the sliding plates. Personally, I step over the plates, even if I'm wearing sturdy shoes, if only because it's more stable. Still, that's one of the big reasons, along with things like the automated doors, luggage falling, how easy it is to trip in sandals when the train lurches, etc.

Now, with all that said, I do wear slip-on shoes at night when walking a few feet from my room to the restroom, so I'm not the best spokesperson. Do as I say, not as I do, so to speak.  When I'm actually walking around the train or up/down stairs, though, I wear boots or shoes.


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## Nathanael (Feb 24, 2014)

I suggest steel-toed boots. 

Seriously, Birkenstocks are fine.

Flip-flops, I would avoid on the train. I'd also avoid spike heels, and I'd particularly avoid mules.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 24, 2014)

Nathanael said:


> I suggest steel-toed boots.
> 
> Seriously, Birkenstocks are fine.
> 
> Flip-flops, I would avoid on the train. I'd also avoid spike heels, and I'd particularly avoid mules.


What if someone steps on you by accident? Or what if something gets stuck in that open toe slit?

Sorry, I still think anything open-toe is NOT acceptable on the train. I never wear them when travelling, and I rarely wear them at all anywhere.


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## Nathanael (Feb 24, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest steel-toed boots.
> ...


You're screwed without steel-toed boots. I've been stepped on in sneakers.


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## roomette (Feb 24, 2014)

Conversely, I'd rather be stepped on by a flip flop rather than a steel toed boot. :lol:


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## Thevoxpopper (Feb 24, 2014)

I am all for the freedom of passengers choosing to wear the footwear of their choice. As long as they understand the potential risk, its their feet and their business. We don't need big brother dictating tous what shoes are allowed on Amtrak. Amtrak should just post a notice or sign informing of the potential problem with open toe shoes and leave it at that.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 24, 2014)

"Don't wear Sandals, you can't afford the Scandals!"-- Bob Dylan

As was said be careful passing between Cars and going up/down Stairs! Id save the flip Flops for the Shower and Room! Most Crew Members make Announcements about wearing Shoes on the train and being careful when walking between and through the cars!

As for a Dress Code: The LSA in the Diner will usually make Folks return to their Room/Seat and put on Clothes if they show up in Pajamas or Night Clothes! Same for Bedroom Slippers, they want you to wear Shoes or at least Sandals! ^_^


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## andersone (Feb 25, 2014)

My sainted mother, god rest her soul, would cringe if you told a lady not to wear heels,,,


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 25, 2014)

roomette said:


> Conversely, I'd rather be stepped on by a flip flop rather than a steel toed boot. :lol:


That's why sneakers are the best compromise, if you're in sneakers and get stepped on by sneakers, it won't hurt as bad as wearing sandals, while if you step on someone by accident, he's not going to hust that much either.


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## Alexandria Nick (Feb 25, 2014)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Alec said:
> 
> 
> > On a plane, I always wear flip flops. They're so much more comfortable, and they make getting through the checkpoint significantly smoother. In the unlikely event that the plane crashed, I have a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't be concerned about my footwear. *Mostly because there's a pretty safe bet that I'd be dead*. On the even more unlikely event that I survived, *I still think that my footwear would be the least of my concerns at that point*.
> ...


The Asiana crash was an extreme outlier. Of all the hull loss incidents I can think of in the last 15 years in the US (12), I can think of three that had survivors (Comair in Lexington, US Airways in NYC, and Asiana in SFO) and two that had more than one or two survivors (one survivor in the Comair one).


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## EB_OBS (Feb 25, 2014)

Amtrak requires that shoes be worn in the food service cars because it is an FDA requirement and for sanitary reasons, common sense.

Amtrak policy is that you wear shoes when moving about the train because, one, we'd like that our passengers travel safely and are not injured during the journey, and two, because when you are injured because you didn't follow the policy you will still find a lawyer and sue Amtrak hoping to win $50 million.


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## roomette (Feb 25, 2014)

EB_OBS said:


> Amtrak requires that shoes be worn in the food service cars because it is an FDA requirement and for sanitary reasons, common sense.


No kidding I'm so tired of people eating with their feet. :lol:


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## junebug (Feb 25, 2014)

I wore Birkenstocks on my last cross country Amtrak trip too. Works for me every trip, although nobody dropped anything on my foot. On the other hand, even if I had shoes on, it would hurt like hell. If I were traveling by train in the winter, I would wear sneakers.


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## junebug (Feb 25, 2014)

You're tired of people eating with their feet?I like that one!


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## Ispolkom (Feb 25, 2014)

Alexandria Nick said:


> The Asiana crash was an extreme outlier. Of all the hull loss incidents I can think of in the last 15 years in the US (12), I can think of three that had survivors (Comair in Lexington, US Airways in NYC, and Asiana in SFO) and two that had more than one or two survivors (one survivor in the Comair one).


That's hull loss incidents in the United States. There are other incidents that involve evacuations that didn't result in hull losses, or involve flights that start here and crash elsewhere, for which I'd like to be

wearing proper shoes.

Examples: Continental Flight 1404, American Airlines 331, those Southwest flights that lost cabin pressure, etc.

Heck, I can't count the number of connections I have had to run to catch, and I don't run well in sandals. But go ahead, do what you want.

My particular favorite reason to dress properly is from an Amtrak trip from Minneapolis to Minot in early November. An early blizzard had closed the Minot airport, and dozens of airline passengers whose flights were canceled had to take the overnight Empire Builder to get home. There is nothing that makes me feel warmer than watching a man walk through 8 inches of snow in 10 degree weather in shorts, no coat, and flipflops, when I have on a winter parka, gloves, hat, and proper boots. I'm sure that he didn't see the point of dressing properly either, because he was expecting to be met at the Minot airport.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 26, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> Alexandria Nick said:
> 
> 
> > The Asiana crash was an extreme outlier. Of all the hull loss incidents I can think of in the last 15 years in the US (12), I can think of three that had survivors (Comair in Lexington, US Airways in NYC, and Asiana in SFO) and two that had more than one or two survivors (one survivor in the Comair one).
> ...


I fully agree with Ispolkom on this. That man lived in the north, yet made such a poor desicion for clothes on a blizzard day.


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## neroden (Feb 26, 2014)

FWIW, around here you used to see a lot of Birkenstocks worn with heavy wool socks. Well, it *is* Ithaca.


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## andersone (Feb 26, 2014)

I once got caught in MSP when they had their largest single day snowfall of 30" in October. The warmest clothing I had was my HS letter sweater - and I had no socks. A buddy lent me a pair of socks, and when I got to the station I used the old hobo trick of crumpling up newspaper (traps air and insulates) while waiting the nine hours for EB to arrive. Wasn't much for dress for success (never been my problem anyway) but I was warm in the drafty station.

Now I wear Crocs most of the time. The winter insulated ones are actually pretty warm.


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## rrdude (Feb 26, 2014)

Crocs. The shoe of choice whenever I travel. Rail. Air. Sea. Backpacking.

EZ on EZ off for TSA. Super lightweight, closed-toe, ugly-as-sin, so no one tends to mess with you, go great with any fashion.

Kick-em off (i usually wear socks, so don't go ballistic) while at 35K feet, so swelling a non-issue. Only problem is snow.

Snow is a No-Go for Crocs. Mine are Lime Green, and Hot Pink.

Just learned that the last pair of pink Crocs I had "lost", were in fact "covertly disposed of" by my wife.

She is no longer talking to her friend whose "loose lips sunk her ship....." The ruse lasted almost a year. Of course her plan was doomed from the start, as I PROMPTLY went out and bought a replacement pair that next weekend!

Crocs. Crocs. Crocs. Gawd how I luv those fugly shoes.


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## Ispolkom (Feb 26, 2014)

andersone said:


> Now I wear Crocs most of the time. The winter insulated ones are actually pretty warm.


There are winter insulated ones? Goodness...


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## andersone (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh yes, they are not just hippie sandals anymore. I actually have a pair of their golf shoes (imitation Ecco's)

Check out their "Fuzz and Lined" For summer and fall the "Specialist" can't be beat for $30.


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## jis (Feb 26, 2014)

I still wear my usual sneakers while traveling whether by train or plane, even though I don;t have to take them off for the TSA anymore.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 26, 2014)

When I travel I take Three kinds of Footware: Rebok Sneakers and Sport Sandals and Flip Flops for the Shower! I usually mostly wear the Sport Sandals on the Train and where the Weather is Warm! Works for me!


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## Tom (Feb 26, 2014)

For onboard employees, there are strict definitions for suitable shoe. They must be leather (I.E., not fabric); they must have a solid, enclosed toe; they must have something that secures them on the foot (laces, straps & buckles; Velcro; etc.), and they must have a definite heel, rather than having a flat bottom surface. However, in my 20+ years with Amtrak, I have never heard a definition of passengers' shoes. It has always been understood that bare feet or socks alone are not shoes, and we have always told passengers gently but firmly that they would have to wear shoes whenever they are away from their seats or sleeper accommodations. We wince when we see sandals, flip-flops, or soft shoes, but we can't really tell the passenger that he or she is violating a rule. I would try to gently suggest they be careful & hope they get the message.


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## roomette (Feb 26, 2014)

Tom said:


> For onboard employees, there are strict definitions for suitable shoe. They must be leather (I.E., not fabric); they must have a solid, enclosed toe; they must have something that secures them on the foot (laces, straps & buckles; Velcro; etc.), and they must have a definite heel, rather than having a flat bottom surface. However, in my 20+ years with Amtrak, I have never heard a definition of passengers' shoes. It has always been understood that bare feet or socks alone are not shoes, and we have always told passengers gently but firmly that they would have to wear shoes whenever they are away from their seats or sleeper accommodations. We wince when we see sandals, flip-flops, or soft shoes, but we can't really tell the passenger that he or she is violating a rule. I would try to gently suggest they be careful & hope they get the message.


Hey, Twenty Years with Amtrak Tom!

In all those 20 years ever see anyone loose a toe between cars as a result of unsuitable footwear?

Thanks!


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## Alexandria Nick (Feb 26, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> Alexandria Nick said:
> 
> 
> > The Asiana crash was an extreme outlier. Of all the hull loss incidents I can think of in the last 15 years in the US (12), I can think of three that had survivors (Comair in Lexington, US Airways in NYC, and Asiana in SFO) and two that had more than one or two survivors (one survivor in the Comair one).
> ...


Well...yeah that's US because I don't (can't) keep track of the rest of the world in my head. I'[d wager "crash" in most people's minds means "airliner destroyed." That's why I went with hull loss.

Also, I'm pretty sure that SWA one that lost some of its floor out the hole is still in service!

I don't worry too much about evacuating in flip flops or whatever. I mean, I'm not even wearing socks now and ten seconds from now I might have to run out of a burning apartment building. Who knows what the neighbors are up to!


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 26, 2014)

Well, crash seems to be anything that is not a normal landing. It bothers me that they referred to the plane "landing" on the Hudson as a crash. I think of it as a perfect landing on an unusual surface & one that pilots are trained for, not a crash.


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## FormerOBS (Feb 26, 2014)

Have I ever seen anybody lose a toe? No, but I've seen close calls and I will GUARANTEE you that it is possible. The worst offenders are children. No, strike that. The worst offenders are their parents who allow them to go barefoot or, in many cases, wander about the train without supervision. Would anybody in his/her right mind take their little kid to Chicago and let him wander? Small feet with little toes would be highly vulnerable. A couple years ago a family of 3 entered our dining car. They paused at the door to be directed to a table, and their cute little daughter (maybe 3 years old) proceeded to bend down and move her hand towards the area where the buffer plates come together. I saw it and shouted to stop her. It upset decorum in the diner, but the little girl eventually got off the train with her hand intact.


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## FormerOBS (Feb 26, 2014)

My first post was under the name "Tom", in case there's confusion. As I said, I'm new at this


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## Phil S (Feb 27, 2014)

Wow. I said what I had to say last August. A lot of water under the bridge since then.

Unfortunately I can't wear street shoes. Something to do with sural nerve. I do have a pair of climbing boots that I can still wear. Maybe I'll bring them along next trip. Then again maybe not.

I was impressed walking one day behind a conductor (wearing, presumably, steel toed shoes) as he concienciously grabbed the hand bar on the next car before stepping across. Takes NO extra time and can't possibly hurt. Seems like a much more effective precaution than worrying about what kind of shoes you wear.

But that's just MHO. .


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