# Bustitution/Forced into Coach During Reward Travel



## William W. (Oct 30, 2014)

I have a trip from CHI-LAX via PDX (EB connecting to CS) booked for early January. I redeemed points for a two-zone bedroom.

If at some point during the trip I'm either bustituted, or forced into coach, will I receive a full refund of my points, or will they change the redemption to a two-zone coach reward?

The reason I ask is because I've noticed that the EB has been occasionally bustituted mid-trip recently. In addition, if the EB misses the connection with the CS at PDX, there's a chance that the sleeping accommodations will be sold out (I could also foresee a downgrade to a roomette. Not the end of the world, obviously, but still a downgrade from what I redeemed).

Any insights?


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## the_traveler (Oct 30, 2014)

You wiłl NOT be reimbursed for the points in full. However, if that does happen, you are entitled to the difference in the fare between what you purchased (redeemed) and received. If you paid cash, this could be done easily with a refund/credit. Being points, you may get some back. However that is unlikely. (It never happened to me, but I've heard it had to others.) More than likely, you'll receive a voucher. (This has happened to me many times.)

It also requires you to contact Customer Relations to ask for it. This is not automatically issued.


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## PRR 60 (Oct 30, 2014)

I believe the way an award travel downgrade is handled is to have Amtrak provide an appropriate dollar voucher toward future travel. AGR typically does not refund points for service issues that result in downgrades.


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## Ispolkom (Oct 30, 2014)

You can always ask Customer Relations for a voucher, and see what they offer. This holds true for any perceived Amtrak failure. Me, the only time I was bustituted on the Empire Builder (Whitefish to Shelby, because of a BNSF derailment in Marias Pass) I didn't ask for compensation, because I didn't think that it was Amtrak's fault. I'd agree with *PRR 60* that you're not likely to get points back, but it has happened.


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## Shortline (Oct 30, 2014)

I had that happen not too long ago, LAX-OKC, tracks washed out somewhere in Texas, when we got to El Paso, they said we would be bussed to San Antonio, to connect to the next days train. Busses were 5-7 hours away (this was around 1 PM), then another 6-7 hours ON the bus into the early morning/overnight, before another 12 hours on the train again....we passed, got off the train, taxied to the airport, rented a car, and were home that night. Tried to get the points back, was a no-go, but they did give me a $400 voucher. (electronic, apparently to use it I have to call and get transferred to customer relations to use it....tried twice, was on hold so long I gave up both times...maybe I'll get to use it eventually before the year is up....)


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## jis (Oct 30, 2014)

When the Lake Shore limited was bustituted around a CSX collision last year I was traveling on it on points in Sleeper. They issued me a voucher for downgrade of accommodation between New York and Albany (to Coach) and Albany to Buffalo Depew (to bus). We finally got to be in our Sleepers a little after 2am.


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## amamba (Oct 30, 2014)

When I was bustituted after a derailment on the EB while on a bedroom redemption I did receive a generous voucher. No points refund though.

I was supposed to be on a scheduled bustitution on the CS on reward travel (track work) but I just rescheduled my trip to avoid it.


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## Ozman (Nov 2, 2014)

when I was on EB last summer hit a bulldozer 15 hour delay trip cost was $2,200 used 35,000 AGR points was pretty pissed that they only gave us $350 voucher IE 1-1 ratio. Sent it back with a very strongly worded letter only got $400 Voucher in return instead of something more of $1,000 voucher (amtrak can go after the bulldozer company lawsuit on safety). ouch.


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## Ispolkom (Nov 2, 2014)

Ozman said:


> when I was on EB last summer hit a bulldozer 15 hour delay trip cost was $2,200 used 35,000 AGR points was pretty pissed that they only gave us $350 voucher IE 1-1 ratio. Sent it back with a very strongly worded letter only got $400 Voucher in return instead of something more of $1,000 voucher (amtrak can go after the bulldozer company lawsuit on safety). ouch.


Umm, wasn't there a driver on that bulldozer? I'm sorry about your delay, but...


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## amamba (Nov 3, 2014)

Ozman said:


> when I was on EB last summer hit a bulldozer 15 hour delay trip cost was $2,200 used 35,000 AGR points was pretty pissed that they only gave us $350 voucher IE 1-1 ratio. Sent it back with a very strongly worded letter only got $400 Voucher in return instead of something more of $1,000 voucher (amtrak can go after the bulldozer company lawsuit on safety). ouch.


$400 seems pretty good for only a 15 hour delay.


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## jis (Nov 3, 2014)

There needs to be a railroad passenger's bill of rights which lays down certain thresholds of delay beyond which it should be required to refund the entire fare. Just IMHO of course.


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## William W. (Nov 3, 2014)

I'd only expect a full refund if I was forcibly downgraded from a sleeper to coach/a bus. I wouldn't mind a reasonable voucher if the train is extremely late, but that's something to be expected these days, especially if taking the EB.

If I use 40,000 points on a two-zone bedroom, and don't receive what I paid for, I'd expect either a full points refund, or a voucher for a large part of the actual dollar value of the ticket. That seems pretty reasonable, at least to me.


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## the_traveler (Nov 3, 2014)

William W. said:


> I'd only expect a full refund if I was forcibly downgraded from a sleeper to coach/a bus. I wouldn't mind a reasonable voucher if the train is extremely late, but that's something to be expected these days, especially if taking the EB.
> 
> If I use 40,000 points on a two-zone bedroom, and don't receive what I paid for, I'd expect either a full points refund, or a voucher for a large part of the actual dollar value of the ticket. That seems pretty reasonable, at least to me.


If you had a 2 zone award from say JAX to ELP (via WAS and CHI) and you were downgraded from a bedroom to a roomette on the SM only but had a bedroom on both the CL and TE, would you still want the full 40,000 points refunded? :huh: You received a bedroom from WAS to ELP - a 2 zone award costing 40,000 points! :unsure: Or did you expect to be transported for free? :huh:


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 3, 2014)

I'd say that a middle ground would be a proper solution to this problem. In the case of accomodation downgrades and missed meals, a partial points refund would seem fair! Bustitutions and forced layovers should have travel vouchers issued up to and including a full refund depending on the time and distance involved!

Jis has a good idea ( he usually does!) about a rail passengers bill of rights!

Anthony might have some ideas on this, as we know he's pretty sharp!!


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## William W. (Nov 3, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> William W. said:
> 
> 
> > I'd only expect a full refund if I was forcibly downgraded from a sleeper to coach/a bus. I wouldn't mind a reasonable voucher if the train is extremely late, but that's something to be expected these days, especially if taking the EB.
> ...


My post only referred to being downgraded to coach/being bustituted. I obviously wouldn't expect a large refund if I was downgraded from a bedroom to a roomette (that would be silly).

I don't expect free travel, but having to ride in coach when a sleeper was originally booked, and paid for, is a HUGE reduction in service (especially on multi-night trains).

-No showers

-No included meals

-No privacy

-No flat bed

Not to mention the massive difference in cost between a coach ticket, and a sleeper ticket, especially on the western LD trains.


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## PaulM (Nov 19, 2014)

jis said:


> There needs to be a railroad passenger's bill of rights which lays down certain thresholds of delay beyond which it should be required to refund the entire fare. Just IMHO of course.


You didn't specify what "it" refers to. To be fair, it would have to include BNSF, NS, etc. :giggle:


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