# 3 people in a roomette?



## sproksch (May 31, 2008)

My wife, 2 year old son, and I will be traveling on the Auto Train in the fall. They wouldn't let us book a roomette for the 3 of us because our son is just over 2 years old so we had to buy an extra coach seat. So we booked my wife and son in the roomette and put myself in coach (I really couldn’t see booking a full bedroom for two adults and one toddler). The agent on the phone said that the coach passenger wouldn't be allowed in the sleeper, but I was wondering if that's just the official rules or if they'll give us a break on the train.

I took several trips with roomette accommodations back in the 90's and I remember my old man, brother and me would travel in a roomette (one booked with a coach ticket) and they never hassled us on the train when we would all be in the roomette together.

It’s been about 10 years now since I’ve traveled with sleeper accommodations and wonder if anything has changed over the years or if the crew is strict on not allowing coach folk into the sleepers? Should I talk to the porter to make sure it’s cool? If nothing else I’ll try and play the “cranky toddler” card.

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## caravanman (May 31, 2008)

Hi,

It is rather hard to generalise.. I saw one guy arrested by the Sherrif for smoking aboard train, another train stank of cigarette smoke and nothing was said!

I suggest that if you are upfront with the crew, they might help you out. There are safety rules, and any employee who gives you the "go ahead" is taking their own risks in assisting you..

I think the rules are tighter these days, but if you just stay in the roomette "as a guest of the ticket holder" and don't try to get the free meals, etc, that might work?

Others will have advice, but my feeling is it all depends on the crew, and your ability to "charm" them!

Ed B)


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## gswager (May 31, 2008)

Is there a family room on Autotrain?


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## AlanB (May 31, 2008)

I'd call Amtrak back and ask to speak with a supervisor. There is no reason that you can't book three people into a roomette when one of them is a child. Amtrak allows this every day on all of it's other routes, so I can't imagine that this is an Auto Train thing.


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## Joel N. Weber II (May 31, 2008)

gswager said:


> Is there a family room on Autotrain?


Most of the sleepers on the Autotrain are just standard Superliner Sleepers, which have one Family Bedroom per car.

I'm not sure how the Superliner Deluxe Sleepers are configured wrt Family Bedrooms.


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## AlanB (May 31, 2008)

gswager said:


> Is there a family room on Autotrain?


Yes, usually 5 or 6 of them depending on just how many sleepers they put on the train.

And to sproksch, the Family room is something else to consider. Usually they are cheaper than a bedroom, but more expensive than a roomette. However, that room has 4 beds in it, two adult sized and two child sized. There would also be a bit more room for your two year old to play in the family room when compared to the roomette.


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## AlanB (May 31, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> gswager said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a family room on Autotrain?
> ...


Typically the AT runs with 2 Deluxe sleepers per train, on occasion I've seen 3, but that was before one was wrecked a few years ago. Deluxe sleepers have the same configuration downstairs as any regular sleeper, it's only the upper level that is different.

And then there are usually 3 to 4 regular sleepers on the train. Hence the 5 to 6 family rooms per train that I mentioned in my post above that I was writing even as you were making this post.


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## the_traveler (May 31, 2008)

You said your son is "just over 2 years old". I don't know if that is "2 years 11 months" or "2 years and 1 week". Personally, I would have "not told the whole truth" and said that he is just under 2 years old! (I don't think they do ID checks or proof him.) That way you could have saved the extra fare.

You do know that the beds in the roomette are small. I don't know his size, but it may be tight for 2 people in the same bed. (A roomette has only an upper berth and a lower berth.)

And welcome to the forum!


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## yarrow (May 31, 2008)

don't know specifically about roomettes but in march amtrak tightened up their occupancy rules in general. for example, you can no longer book 3 adults and a child in a family bedroom and if you want two adults and a child in a standard bedroom you can't book it online but have to call.

also, the op referred to a "porter". the correct term is sleeping car attendant and were you to call him/her a porter it would be a mistake


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## -Jamie- (May 31, 2008)

yarrow said:


> don't know specifically about roomettes but in march amtrak tightened up their occupancy rules in general. for example, you can no longer book 3 adults and a child in a family bedroom and if you want two adults and a child in a standard bedroom you can't book it online but have to call.also, the op referred to a "porter". the correct term is sleeping car attendant and were you to call him/her a porter it would be a mistake


For our last trip, we booked 3 adults in a standard bedroom online and had no problem. Why would 2 adults/1 child cause a booking issue?


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## had8ley (May 31, 2008)

-Jamie- said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > don't know specifically about roomettes but in march amtrak tightened up their occupancy rules in general. for example, you can no longer book 3 adults and a child in a family bedroom and if you want two adults and a child in a standard bedroom you can't book it online but have to call.also, the op referred to a "porter". the correct term is sleeping car attendant and were you to call him/her a porter it would be a mistake
> ...


Because it's in a roomette and the child is technically needing to be ticketed. Personally, I find just two adults having adequate room let alone a playful two year old to go along with the rest of the limited space. I would say he/she is having his second birthday NEXT month...the term porter went the way of George Pullman~ into the history books.


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## Tony (May 31, 2008)

I have traveled in the Viewliner roomettes many times. I don't think overall size and layout is much different from the roomettes on the Autotrain.

While sleeping will be pretty tight, during the day what you can do, is lower the top bunk. There is still plenty of headroom for two adults to sit comfortably in the seats, while the kid uses the top bunk as a play area (tree fort). I have seen many parents do this, enough to say it is not at all uncommon.

I have even seen two adults and a teenager in a roomette. The sleeping car attendant ever made a single comment about it.


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## -Jamie- (May 31, 2008)

had8ley said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > yarrow said:
> ...


A booking issue for the roommette, yes, but yarrow said it was a booking issue for the bedroom. Personally, I think 2 adults and a 2-yr-old in a roommette would be more uncomfortable that attempting to sleep in coach.


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## Tony (May 31, 2008)

-Jamie- said:


> Personally, I think 2 adults and a 2-yr-old in a roommette would be more uncomfortable that attempting to sleep in coach.


It has been a while since I had to deal with a 2-yr-old, but the privacy of a roomette would mean the parents would not have to be constantly "dealing" with the typical noise and activity level of a 2-yr-old. I mean, in coach, it would be pretty difficult keeping a toddler from constantly bothering everyone else around.

Constantly dealing with a 2-yr-old on a long trip can be very stressful, and traveling on Amtrak is suppose to be stress free.


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## -Jamie- (May 31, 2008)

Tony said:


> -Jamie- said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I think 2 adults and a 2-yr-old in a roommette would be more uncomfortable that attempting to sleep in coach.
> ...


Even in the sleeper it's quite possible to bother the passengers around you. You just don't see their disapproving looks if you're in a sleeper. I know on one of our trips there was a family that upgraded from coach to a bedroom and they had a small child that kept yelling and with all doors closed, we could still hear them loud and clear at the other end of the car. Thankfully they got off a few hours later and we only had to deal with it for the afternoon. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that all small children will cause a problem with other passengers. I've known some that are perfect angels. Just saying that is possible to bother people in the sleeper almost as easily as it is in coach.


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## p&sr (May 31, 2008)

Tony said:


> There is still plenty of headroom for two adults to sit comfortably in the seats...


Assuming neither of them is very tall...



Tony said:


> while the kid uses the top bunk as a play area (tree fort). I have seen many parents do this, enough to say it is not at all uncommon.


Sounds like fun. Does the kid ever go flying when the Train bounces on a sharp curve?


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## p&sr (May 31, 2008)

Tony said:


> I mean, in coach, it would be pretty difficult keeping a toddler from constantly bothering everyone else around.


But the Toddler is Perfectly within his Rights to bother people. He paid his fare, the seat is rightfully his, and he cannot be expected to cease being his own natural self.

For a break, either the Toddler or the ones he is bothering can go to the Lounge Car (and bother a different crowd for a while, to keep things interesting), or walk around downstairs and look at the Luggage Racks. Just don't show them how the Door Handles work!


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## Tony (May 31, 2008)

p&sr said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > There is still plenty of headroom for two adults to sit comfortably in the seats...
> ...


True. If you are a professional basketball player, you might find it a problem.

However, for everyone else, it is fine.



p&sr said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > while the kid uses the top bunk as a play area (tree fort). I have seen many parents do this, enough to say it is not at all uncommon.
> ...


Never even close.

The top bunk has those side barrier straps, and when we put the top bunk down, we make sure to connect them.

BTW, why would that be more of a problem using the top bunk during the day, than at night?


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## Tony (May 31, 2008)

-Jamie- said:


> Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that all small children will cause a problem with other passengers. I've known some that are perfect angels. Just saying that is possible to bother people in the sleeper almost as easily as it is in coach.





p&sr said:


> But the Toddler is Perfectly within his Rights to bother people. He paid his fare, the seat is rightfully his, and he cannot be expected to cease being his own natural self.


Even a toddler who is generally well behaved, can't maintain that for 20+ hours of a long overnight train ride.

Even on sort rides in coach, I remember my kid dropping the snack tray down, and then slamming it back up. Dropping the snack tray down and then slamming it back up. Dropping the snack tray down and then slamming it back up. Dropping the snack tray down and then slamming it back up.

I wish _p&sr_ was there to explain to the passenger in front of us, that the kid is "is Perfectly within his Rights to bother people" like that, and of course, force that passenger to accept it. :huh:

Of course, in a roomette, such a problem can't easily happen.


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## Walt (May 31, 2008)

p&sr said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > There is still plenty of headroom for two adults to sit comfortably in the seats...
> ...


If I remember right, I think there is still around 5' of head room under the bunk in the Viewliner roomette. That is more headroom than one finds even in an SUV, and tall people seem to fit, seated, in an SUV.


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## sproksch (May 31, 2008)

Thanks to all for the advice! It sounds like we'll be alright.

And thanks for heads-up on the 'sleeping car attendent / porter' terminology - I've been reading alot of railroad history books lately.

Thanks,


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## AlanB (May 31, 2008)

sproksch said:


> Thanks to all for the advice! It sounds like we'll be alright.
> And thanks for heads-up on the 'sleeping car attendent / porter' terminology - I've been reading alot of railroad history books lately.
> 
> Thanks,


Sproksch, please don't take the chance that you hit a crew that wants to follow the rules. Call up Amtrak again, and ask for a supervisor. The supervisor should be able to book all three of you into the roomette without issue.

If you don't do that then two things happen. One, you are at the mercy of the crew to let you into the sleeper. Yes, the odds are that they will, but there are no guarantees. Second, you will find yourself holding a dinner reservation for the coach dining car and your family holding a reservation for the sleeper dining car. And in this case it is quite possible that the crew will not only not accomodate you in the sleeping dining car to join your family, they may not be able to. On the AutoTrain everyone gets dinner, but most times all seatings get sold out for each of the two respective dining cars. So just because you happen to get a 5:30 dining time for the coach dining car, doesn't mean that the 5:30 seating in the sleeping dining car isn't sold out.

That would leave you dining seperately from your family!

I highly recommend dropping the dime to call Amtrak back and speak with a supervisor to get yourself reticketed properly so that you can join your family in the sleeper.


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## p&sr (Jun 1, 2008)

Tony said:


> Even on short rides in coach, I remember my kid dropping the snack tray down, and then slamming it back up.
> I wish _p&sr_ was there to explain...


Yeah, I do a certain amount of that myself. Playing with the tray, that is. Or using it for drum practice. Or making funny noises with the footrest. Or re-adjusting the back of my seat all the time.

Mostly, though, it's up & down, up & down all day. Grabbing my luggage, searching for a particular map, & putting the luggage back up on the overhead rack. Then getting it down again and searching for a specific schedule, & putting it back up again. Then remembering something else I wanted to check, but not remembering where in the luggage I stashed it, so semi-unpacking on my seat then re-arranging and putting it back up again.

Then it's usually time to take a walk. Up to the front of the car, down to the back, three round trips. Maybe every 20 minutes or so. (It only gets tricky at night, when people's legs [or heads] are sticking out into the aisle all over the place.)

Good thing I'm not hyper-active or something, anyway.

The one time I had a problem with kids being TOO noisy was when they brought electronic noise-makers. The kids would push buttons and spin dials, then the machine makes a LOUD random animal sound, or rings a bell or toots a horn, or makes noises like automobile crashes or motorcycles revving up. Their poor mother just sat there complacently in a perpetual state of utter exhaustion.

Just before we (the rest of us in that car) were about ready to seize or smash the offending device... the Batteries died. Halleluja!


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## Walt (Jun 1, 2008)

Kind-of going back to the original question, if the choice is between having two adults and a toddler in coach, vs two adults and a toddler in a roomette, I thought I would mention this.

In coach, you all would have to sleep sitting up. In a roomette, you could give the toddler the upper bunk, and the two adults could still attempt to sleep sitting up in the two chairs. There is no requirement that you turn the two chairs into one bed, at night.

I also remember as a parent, that if your kid is comfortable, it makes the trip much more relaxing even if you yourself aren't as comfortable. Basically, a happy kid makes for happy parents.

While we mentioned here that a roomette would keep your kid away from bothering the other passengers. It is equally true that a roomette would keep the other passengers away from bothering your kid, possibly allowing him/her a better chance of getting to sleep on time, and sleeping thru the night.


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## had8ley (Jun 1, 2008)

Walt said:


> Kind-of going back to the original question, if the choice is between having two adults and a toddler in coach, vs two adults and a toddler in a roomette, I thought I would mention this.
> In coach, you all would have to sleep sitting up. In a roomette, you could give the toddler the upper bunk, and the two adults could still attempt to sleep sitting up in the two chairs. There is no requirement that you turn the two chairs into one bed, at night.
> 
> I also remember as a parent, that if your kid is comfortable, it makes the trip much more relaxing even if you yourself aren't as comfortable. Basically, a happy kid makes for happy parents.


Many a trip my wife rode in the upper bunk with our grand daughter. The safety harness kept her contained and I was able to help her down if need be. Sleeping upright when you have the ability to have two beds sounds a little tough on the parents. The toddler might awake refreshed but mommy and daddy might not be in the most jovial of moods.


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## Eris (Jun 1, 2008)

The lower bunk of a roomette is plenty big enough for a small-to-medium-large sized adult to sleep with a two year old. I've done it (five year old slept up top).

It does sound like Amtrak is in a stickler phase with the room numbers, which is unfortunate for me since with the Family Bedroom lowest bucket price increase I've seen, the roomette is probably my only chance to take the train (as an adult with two small kids). It's looking like our summer trip to Los Angeles will be by air.


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## Tony (Jun 1, 2008)

Eris said:


> The lower bunk of a roomette is plenty big enough for a small-to-medium-large sized adult to sleep with a two year old. I've done it (five year old slept up top).


At least on the Viewliner, the top and bottom bed/bunk in the roomette are the exact same size. They both use the exact same size mattress.

I am not that big, but I can't imagine sharing a bed that is narrower than a cot from summer camp.


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## AlanB (Jun 1, 2008)

Tony said:


> Eris said:
> 
> 
> > The lower bunk of a roomette is plenty big enough for a small-to-medium-large sized adult to sleep with a two year old. I've done it (five year old slept up top).
> ...


They are the same width, but they are not the same length. The lower bed is 4 inches longer than the upper bunk.


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## AlanB (Jun 1, 2008)

Eris said:


> It does sound like Amtrak is in a stickler phase with the room numbers, which is unfortunate for me since with the Family Bedroom lowest bucket price increase I've seen, the roomette is probably my only chance to take the train (as an adult with two small kids). It's looking like our summer trip to Los Angeles will be by air.


Amtrak has gone round and round a few times recently on the maximum occupancy rules. But AFAIK there have been no recent changes. That therefore means that an experienced agent or a supervisor can still put three people into a roomette, provided that at least one is a child. They are supposed to warn you that Amtrak does not recommend this, and that things will be tight both in terms of sitting and sleeping. But as long as you understand that and agree that you are willing to deal with those issues, they will book three into a roomette.

Now if you get a new inexperienced agent, or a lazy one, then you may well get told that you can't put three into a roomette like the OP was told.


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## Radparker (Jun 1, 2008)

Walt said:


> p&sr said:
> 
> 
> > Tony said:
> ...


I am 6'1" tall and it was perfectly possible to sit in the chairs while the upper bunk was down. Girlfriend wanted to take a nap during the day, so we pulled it down. I stayed in my seat underneath, and even went to the snack car and back. Sitting underneath the bunk wasn't really a problem. (Except for the attendant, who was loudly irritated about having to remake the bed. I tipped a bit extra to smooth that over.)


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 1, 2008)

Children are to be (rarely) seen and preferably not heard. If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down.

Child control sickens me these days. Parents either don't seem to care, or attach them with those inhumane dog-leash type harnesses. It is perfectly possible for a child to sit down and be quiet. It involves something known as "reward and punishment". But parents don't seem to know that, these days.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jun 1, 2008)

I guess you could go up to the parents, introduce yourself as a taxidermist and say that several of the other passengers had suggested that the child was in need of your professional services.........


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## PRR 60 (Jun 1, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Children are to be (rarely) seen and preferably not heard. If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down.
> Child control sickens me these days. Parents either don't seem to care, or attach them with those inhumane dog-leash type harnesses. It is perfectly possible for a child to sit down and be quiet. It involves something known as "reward and punishment". But parents don't seem to know that, these days.


These days? Why do you think it has changed over the last 100 years. And I assume you were always a perfect child?


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## MrFSS (Jun 1, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Children are to be (rarely) seen and preferably not heard. If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down.
> Child control sickens me these days. Parents either don't seem to care, or attach them with those inhumane dog-leash type harnesses. It is perfectly possible for a child to sit down and be quiet. It involves something known as "reward and punishment". But parents don't seem to know that, these days.





AmtrakWPK said:


> I guess you could go up to the parents, introduce yourself as a taxidermist and say that several of the other passengers had suggested that the child was in need of your professional services.........





PRR 60 said:


> These days? Why do you think it has changed over the last 100 years. And I assume you were always a perfect child?


_*Moderator Hat Off*_

Sir - you have no clue about children and shouldn't be making the type of statement you make. I'm a father and also have 5 grandchildren. At 67 I don't come close to knowing all about them and how to control them in different situations. I'm sure you, and other childless folks of your young age range think you know it all, but you don't and I think I speak for many on this board, as evidenced by the type of comments above, who are upset about these type comments you continually make. Stop it! I'm sure others will add to this.

_*Moderator Hat Back On*_


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## had8ley (Jun 1, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Eris said:
> 
> 
> > It does sound like Amtrak is in a stickler phase with the room numbers, which is unfortunate for me since with the Family Bedroom lowest bucket price increase I've seen, the roomette is probably my only chance to take the train (as an adult with two small kids). It's looking like our summer trip to Los Angeles will be by air.
> ...


Alan;

Let's go one step further..what is the meal allowance for a three person roomette?


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## guest (Jun 1, 2008)

"If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down."

I find this comment to be extremely offensive. How does threatening a small child with violence positively contribute to this discussion or message board? This is not the first time that this poster has made a similar content. Moderators, please remove it and lets get back to talking about Amtrak!


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## the_traveler (Jun 1, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Children are to be (rarely) seen and preferably not heard. If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down.
> Child control sickens me these days. Parents either don't seem to care, or attach them with those inhumane dog-leash type harnesses. It is perfectly possible for a child to sit down and be quiet. It involves something known as "reward and punishment". But parents don't seem to know that, these days.


I too like for it to be quiet, but I also find these types of comments highly offensive. I am as bothered (if not more) by the guy talking loudly on his cell phone at 1 AM, the drunk (but not sloshed) person a few rows up (who only had 2 beers), the college group going to spring break or the person snoring in the car than I am by the kid going on his 1st train trip.

Who knows - that "*bad*" kid may post to AU in a few years!


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## p&sr (Jun 1, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> ...he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train...


That pretty well catches MY feelings about so-called "adults" who perpetually spout Nonsense, respect Nobody else, and refuse to calm down when properly warned.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jun 1, 2008)

(1) - Tom - the taxidermist comment was a joke, for pete's sake. Chill a little.

(2) - There IS more than a little truth to the idea that today's kids are NOT as well disciplined as we were back in "the day". I am absolutely sure that if I, as a child traveling with my parents, had been on a train and had been repeatedly smacking the tray table up and down, etc., harassing my fellow passengers, especially the person sitting in the seat attached to that tray table, I'd have been told to knock it off and behave, and if I hadn't, I would have got my bottom smacked smartly and THAT would have stopped the tray-table nonsense. That behavior would have been an acute embarrassment to my parents.

I am personally convinced that it is the "enlightened" parenting "never hit the child" etc., without an effective and efficacious substitute being applied, that results in what we are seeing and some of what has been complained of. There is a difference between acting like a child and physically harassing a fellow traveler - essentially becoming a public nuisance, and I think I can guarantee that my parents would NOT have allowed the latter to continue.

As somebody who has spent a considerable number of hours as a professional working in the juvenile court system, I have seen, up close and personal, what is a very very serious evaporation of the parenting and appropriate disciplining abilities (indeed, almost ANY disciplining abilities, or even an awareness that the NEED for it exists in their children) of a frightening percentage of parents, and, worse, I have seen the results, in the increasing numbers of children committing adult crimes and becoming career criminals as teenagers, or even earlier. We are sacrificing their very lives on the altar of "don't you dare discipline that child by smacking his/her bottom when he/she desperately needs it". I see the results of that in the court system.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 1, 2008)

I think Postel's law of "be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others" might have some application to being in coach on Amtrak.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jun 1, 2008)

guest said:


> "If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down."
> I find this comment to be extremely offensive. How does threatening a small child with violence positively contribute to this discussion or message board? This is not the first time that this poster has made a similar content. Moderators, please remove it and lets get back to talking about Amtrak!


I agree completely. This thread was going along nicely, and then GML had to butt in with his personal views on a non-Amtrak related subject, offending half of the people here.

Green Maned Lion, would you _please_ refrain from these off-tangent social rants? This is a forum about AMTRAK. If you really feel it necessary to post your views about parenting, the government, or whatever else, I'm sure there's another forum out there for them. These comments only serve to incense the people who disagree with you and take the threads off in useless directions!

Moderators - in the last few years I've been on this board, I've found the level of conversations on this forum to be some of the best anywhere. However, I now find it extremely frustrating to see so many threads veering off topic. I try to check up on this forum at least once or twice per day, & generally I only read the threads about subjects, routes, etc. that interest me. I usually re-read the last page or two to catch up with how the conversation is going, & eagerly look forward to reading the replies on subjects I'd like to learn more about. It's frequently turning into a waste of my time, as there's now no reason to assume that the current posts are discussing the thread's main topic, or even Amtrak itself. It's really beginning to detract from the quality & usefulness of this board.


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## Gingee (Jun 1, 2008)

I work with two year olds and I have had three of my own children. How long are you going to be on the train? It is pretty squishy for three people but if your child is a small two year old, one of you may be able to sleep in one of the beds with the child and the other one gets to sleep by themselves.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 1, 2008)

You fail to notice the nature of my comment in that I wasn't suggesting that I'd throw the child out of a moving train. I am, first and foremost, a verbal person. I'd give the child a verbal chewing out (and more pointedly, their parent) for allowing and committing such nonsense, and if it continued, I'd tell the conductor. My girlfriend has issues that involve children, and anything else that annoys her.

I have never raised a child, and I doubt I ever will. Why? Raising a child is an incredible responsibility, and a full time job. A family where two parents work or only one parent exists and works, but can not afford full-time, personal, devoted, and caring help, can not afford to have a child. I am not being sexist- I'm not sexist at all. It can just as easily be the father as the mother. A child needs strong parental - or parental adult- guidance to grow up well, just as I have had- despite the fact that my parents encountered financial hardship at times providing it. Realizing that she'd have to go back to work was a heart wrenching decision for my mother, when I was about 9 years old. Even so, she hired an exceptionally caring and devoted woman (almost a second mother to me) to care for me and my sister.

Having children means devoting about ten years of one parents life to absolutely nothing else besides maintaining home and child. And another ten years to extensively devoting yourself to little else. And the rest of your life to being there for your child. I don't have the patience, the time, the devotion, or the inclination to raise a child, so I'm not going to have one. I find too many people in todays day and age who have children, but fail to bother being the child's parent. If you need a bloody leash to keep your child on, you shouldn't have one. If you can't manage to control your child from certain levels of unruliness, you shouldn't have one. Period, end of discussion. I wasn't an easy child. My mother made sure, however, that I behaved myself in public, regardless of whether I wanted to or not.

I'm not talking about babies crying here. Babies cry. They can't easily be controlled. It is considerate to do what you can to stop the crying child and minimize the impact on those around you, but the actual crying is not expected to be stopped easily. I'm talking about the child who annoys the stuffing out of someone, but the parent can't even be bothered to take the child's hand and lead them back to their seat. The ones that do simplify their lives by simply pulling on the child's leash. No need to get up out of their seat or something so hard of that nature.

Unruly children bother me. The parent who can't be bothered to spend time keeping their child appropriately reared and teaching them how to behave in public (this is, of course, the JOB of said parent just as much as safe operation of a train is the JOB of a conductor!) pisses me off to no end. I'd be more likely to toss the parent out of the train than the child. Look around you, parent or not. Look at how much attention parents pay to their children. How much they try. How much they really seem to even CARE.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 1, 2008)

D.P. Roberts said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > "If your tray-table slamming toddler were sitting next to my girlfriend, he'd find himself flying down the NEC without the enclosing train, probably before I could stop her and calm her down."
> ...


I was replying with regard to distinct posts earlier in the thread, if you care to read them.

But whatever, it seems more people then not would rather I not post around here. If that's the case, maybe I shouldn't.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jun 1, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I was replying with regard to distinct posts earlier in the thread, if you care to read them.
> But whatever, it seems more people then not would rather I not post around here. If that's the case, maybe I shouldn't.


No, you were NOT replying to a distinct post. The bulk of the thread dealt with small children in a roomette, & how to keep them safe and occupied. Looking at the situation from the other point of view- the passengers who are getting annoyed by unruly small children - could be considered a valid part of that topic.

You then stepped in and mentioned THROWING CHILDREN OFF THE MOVING TRAIN. This is not a valid strategy for dealing with unruly children, from the point of view of the passenger or the parent. It is, in fact, a felony. If something you or your companions want to do is a felony, don't bother posting it.

Amtrak is funded and overseen by the federal government. As such, some threads about the government are to be expected. Obviously, posters on this board come from a variety of political leanings, & are going to have different views about the government & its functions. It would behoove you (and everyone else) to keep your views to yourself in areas that don't involve Amtrak.

No one is asking you to leave. As a very wise person once said, politics and religion are not discussed in polite company. And with good reason - if any threads in this forum are going to stay on topic and keep from offending people, we should stick to Amtrak-related topics ONLY. Is that so hard?


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

GML,

Post on. These boards have individuals of every age group and background which is healthy. I always take your age into consideration when reading your posts and recall what I was like at the same age. Age changes perceptions. I agree in principal with your belief that out of control children are generally a product of poor parenting and my **** would have been whupped by my parents with a tree branch of my choosing. But parents are afraid to do that now. It is probably not wise to suggest that they be winged off of the train and it is not easy to read. Your girlfriend would be in trouble up to her eyeballs if she ever acted on that thought, so it's probably best not to entertain the thoughts, lest actions follow. Do consider that if a potential rider happened upon this board and saw a diatribe against children they might think the whole group felt that way when, in fact, most here probably welcome a new generation being introduced to train travel.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 2, 2008)

To be quite honest with you, Mr. Roberts, for me it is quite hard. I find it very hard to discuss subjects without bringing in relevant adjacent aspects of that subject. It is preposterous in my mind to limit my discussion of politics strictly and completely to one aspect because it eliminates far too much of my perspective and thus requires my contribution to be taken fully out of context. Since far too many people already quote what I say and respond out of context to my in-context statement, I really don't care to allow them for a double-out of contextation of my points of view. Everybody is entitled to their own point of view. I'll tell you why I disagree with it if you mention it, and I'll debate with you if you counterpoint, but I will never deny you the right to hold it, or suggest that you don't have such a right.

Secondly, for the purpose of adding a tiny bit of humour to serious comments, I tend to exaggerate certain aspects to the point of absurdity. I would _NEVER_ throw a child off a train. Heck, not even a child. I don't throw anyone off trains who isn't under 26 years old, man! <--- if you can't see this as an example of humour in a serious comment, I suggest you convince yourself it is- because it is!

Life is too short to rush, I often say. It is also too short to spend time being diplomatic, and I don't. And it is definitely too short not to add humour to everything.

Take me and accept me for what I am, for that is all I am ever going to be. But in order to do that, you have to recognize that I see the world from a very different point of view than most people I know. I sometimes express my deeper inner thoughts, the ones the "sanity control" section of my brain toss out 5 microseconds after generation, because I find them amusing. I also ramble. I'm not sorry for it, but I am sorry that it seems to upset you. Upsetting this board as a group is not something I desire to do, and if it is the main accomplisment of my nearly 1550 posts here, I'm not sure I want to continue doing it.


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## Walt (Jun 2, 2008)

Gosh, I didn't find _GML_ any more offensive than _p&sr_, if "offensive" is even the right word. They both expressed an opinion that I felt were very opposite extremes. But it is still their opinion, and honestly, probably a good example of the extremes one might find with other passengers onboard a train.

Yes, I use to expect my kid to act well in public. I now expect my grandkids to do the same. However, the reality is, even the best kid can't do it constantly. The longer the "outing" (ie, train journey), the more likely they will do _something_ that will bother others. From slamming the tray, to kicking the seat in front of them (either on purpose or accidentally), to whining about something.

Amtrak has those "quiet" coaches on some trains. Maybe Amtrak needs a "family only" coach were the kids can run wild and free, and if anything, only bother other kids and parents. However, I don't think Amtrak has such, yet.

That is why I suggest, from my own years of experience, for someone with a young kid to strongly consider a roomette over coach for long overnight journeys.


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## guest (Jun 2, 2008)

Moderators- Hello? Anyone out there? Please lock this thread for the good of the discussion board and lets get back to talking about what we all love- Amtrak!


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## AlanB (Jun 2, 2008)

guest said:


> Moderators- Hello? Anyone out there? Please lock this thread for the good of the discussion board and lets get back to talking about what we all love- Amtrak!


No, I'm not going to lock the thread just in case the OP comes back with further questions or an update to his issue. However, what will happen going forward from this point is that any post about throwing kids and GML, both for and against, will be deleted without comment or fanfare by either myself or one of the other moderators; who are hereby instructed to do just that.

And now I return you to your regularly scheduled program, putting three people into a roomette.


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## p&sr (Jun 2, 2008)

Walt said:


> Gosh, I didn't find (name omitted) any more offensive than _p&sr_, if "offensive" is even the right word. They both expressed an opinion that I felt were very opposite extremes. But it is still their opinion, and honestly, probably a good example of the extremes one might find with other passengers onboard a train.


Thank you for your Vote of Confidence. I try not to be too offensive while riding, and I try not to deliberately provoke little ones into making trouble. One of the most interesting things about Rail Travel is the great variety of different people one encounters on board.

I remember one time when I was bothered by kids on board. There was a school-aged Soccer Team returning home from a Tournament out-of-state. All the kids were in the Lounge car, playing cards. One of them was screaming wildly after every play. After the first 40 minutes or so, this got a little wearying. I tried some gentle "shushing" gestures, to no avail. Then my wife gently advised the child, "Use your Indoor Voice...".

At this, the kid's Dad stood up. Way down at the other end of the lounge, weighing 350 pounds and all muscle, accompanying three other guys from the group with the same build. In a Thunderous Voice he declared, "You got an issue with My Kid, You talk to ME about it, Understand?"

So I explained to him, Your child does not actually have to constantly Scream like a Banshee while playing cards, perhaps you could have him tone it down a bit?

He replied in his Thunderous Voice, "You got an issue with My Kid, You talk to ME about it, Understand?"

So I explained that I was doing exactly that, and could the child kindly be a bit quieter while playing cards?

At this, he was absolutely dumbstruck. He sat down, muttering to his pals that "some people don't think the Lounge Car is for Having Fun."

Remarkably, the kid sensed his lack of ongoing support for rowdiness, and played quietly for another ten minutes before going back to his room without comment.

So the moral of the story is, You meet all kinds, and then you do what you can with it.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 2, 2008)

p&sr said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, I didn't find (name omitted) any more offensive than _p&sr_, if "offensive" is even the right word. They both expressed an opinion that I felt were very opposite extremes. But it is still their opinion, and honestly, probably a good example of the extremes one might find with other passengers onboard a train.
> ...


OK, now, can I or can't I fit two women with me in my roomette??????


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## MStrain (Jun 2, 2008)

Rail Freak,

I think that as long as you pick companions up en route, you may place them in your compartment as you wish. The movie "Silver Streak" comes to mind! 

But, without wanting to add further derailment to this at one time valid discussion----is there actually room for 3 in a roomette (in the daytime configuration????) One adult in each seat, and possibly a child in a lap? Can't imagine that would be too comfortable for too long.


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## Walt (Jun 2, 2008)

MStrain said:


> One adult in each seat, and possibly a child in a lap? Can't imagine that would be too comfortable for too long.


Again, I would think the adult(s) in the seat(s), and the child up in the upper bunk. Even during the day, the upper bunk makes a great play area/"tree fort".


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 2, 2008)

The toilet seat cover of the Viewliner is upholstered sorta. You can have someone sit there.


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## RailFanLNK (Jun 2, 2008)

On my travels, 3 in a roomette will be pretty tight, but defiantely doable. On unruly kids....I have been bothered more by adults on Amtrak than kids, and I'm not a "small kid fan" and I don't have children. Seems like kids think the train is pretty cool so hopefully your small child will be in awe of Amtrak.


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## Eris (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm not huge, but neither am I tiny, and I can fit fine sharing a roomette seat with either my 3 or my 6 year old (fortunately, since we're two kids and an adult rather than two adults and a kid, the two kids can share the seat very comfortably. Also I make them take the rearfacing seat because I am mean).


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## AlanB (Jun 2, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> The toilet seat cover of the Viewliner is upholstered sorta. You can have someone sit there.


The toilet seat cover in the Viewliner roomette is hard plastic, fine for sitting for many 15 to 20 minutes. But I sure wouldn't want to sit on it for several hours.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 2, 2008)

I think after driving a German car for so many years, I must have a different definition of hard than most 

But hey, small kids can sit on school floors cross-legged, so who knows?


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## AlanB (Jun 3, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I think after driving a German car for so many years, I must have a different definition of hard than most


:lol: :lol:



Green Maned Lion said:


> But hey, small kids can sit on school floors cross-legged, so who knows?


Quite right! And perhaps has a small kid I too wouldn't have minded sitting on that toilet lid. As an adult I can promise you that I wouldn't want to though.


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