# Best of the Lounge Lizards



## Meat Puppet (Jun 9, 2013)

Coach passengers Sleeping all night in the sightseer lounges is way out of control. I dont mind if someone falls asleep for a few hours but these pics show train 4/21 on 6/4 at 10pm. Coach descended on the lounge beginning at 9:30 pillows and blankets in hand. By 10:30 people had 2 3 and 4 seats all for them selves not one open for other passengers. Maybe if we log the train time and date with the pictures amtrak will correct these lazy conductors. Post your best Lounge Lizard pics here, maybe we will even find a repeat offender.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8998557692/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8998557912/


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 9, 2013)

The guy in the first picture, to his credit, at least took his shoes off.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 9, 2013)

I say plant your butt right on top of them.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 9, 2013)

If they keep them out of the diner they can keep them out of the lounge...


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## Me (Jun 9, 2013)

OP should post these on Amtrak's FB page.


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## the Other Mike (Jun 9, 2013)

I guess I'm guilty of "trying" to lay down one night.

On the CONO I hung out in the Lounge to be near the" penalty box" . AT about 3 am I tried to lay down for a few minutes but I'll be damned if I could.( and I was the only person in the lounge) Those seats were hard as a rock and the configuration was horrible for sleeping.

That was the last time I traveled overnight without a sleeper.

I do like the idea of posting those pictures. I've been lucky on both the Sunset and the CONO to never experience anything as shown above.

However, in the old days of dome cars, if you didn't get to the dome with pillow and blanket as you were leaving the terminal, you were screwed.


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## Texan Eagle (Jun 9, 2013)

You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.


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## Alexandria Nick (Jun 9, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. .... Deal with it.


Perhaps you should take your own advice?


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## PerRock (Jun 9, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.


I have to say I agree with Texan Eagle. Amtrak really needs more affordable sleeper accommodations.

But I have to say as a regualr Coach user (I can't afford a sleeper, only been in one twice; once when Amtrak overbooked, and gave us a free upgrade, and once to as a 'tour' by the attendant). The SSL is often the best place to sleep, I've done it a number of times. But then generally how many people are using the lounge as a lounge at 12am? 2am? (I will admit that 9pm is too early for sleeping in the lounge, I'd start heading there around 11-11:30p, and would really "settle in" until around midnight, or whenever everyone left). I was actually encouraged to sleep in the lounge on one trip by the conductor. I'll also admit I've never seen it as bad as pictured, the most I've seen were 5 people.

Additionally I was under the understanding that a "Lounge Lizard" was more of a day-time thing.

peter


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## dlagrua (Jun 9, 2013)

We always travel by sleeper but almost every time that we have tried to enter the sightseer lounge the inconsiderate creeps from coach hog all of the seats for the entire trip. We pay more money to travel than they do and we should certainly have a right to sit in the SSL for an hour or two. Instead you have those inconsiderate creeps using it as a sleeper car.

The rule should be one hours of use at a time for everyone. The SSL is not just for coach passengers that are too stingy to buy a roomette and too dam inconsiderate to let anyone but themselves use the car. I am writing a letter to customer service to voice my discontent. We must get the lounge lizards ejected from that car after an hour or two and open it up to all passengers.


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 9, 2013)

PerRock said:


> Additionally I was under the understanding that a "Lounge Lizard" was more of a day-time thing.


From Urban Dictionary (So you know it must be right  ):



> 1. lounge lizardA ladies-man that frequents night spots where drinks are served. May be part of the live music set, but usually the lizard is at the bar chatting up rich women. Most often seen in a suit that was a fashion statement in the 80s.



Draw your own conclusions. :lol:


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## calwatch (Jun 9, 2013)

There are people that crawl on the floor too. Now, I admit I am one of those people that ruin people's sleep there, since I often make conversation with other night owls in the sightseer lounge. But as long as there are not people trying to use those seats then that is fine. Just clear them before sunrise.


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## winterskigirl (Jun 9, 2013)

The Conductor could give them a ticket for overuse of the lounge :giggle:


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## the_traveler (Jun 10, 2013)

Many times I have woken up early (like at 4 or 5 am) and have gone into the lounge car - and not found a place to sit because "people" are sleeping there overnight. How can I tell they just didn't fall asleep a short time before? Many times they have pillows, blankets and/or sleeping bags! And most times they take up 2-4 seats.

I'm sorry, but I'm not "holier than thou". Even when I go coach, like when I transfer early (such as in SPK, SAC or PGH and it doesn't make sense to pay for a room), I sleep in my seat in coach. I see 2 choices for buying a seat: 1) Reserved coach and 2) Lower Level coach. NOWHERE have I seen it say you can buy a seat in the Sightseer Lounge - so what makes those "people" think that they are "holier than thou" than people that have to sleep in their coach seats?


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## Me (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't fault the sleeping passengers. I do fault the staff for allowing it.


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 10, 2013)

Resident lounge lizard here. Define out of control.


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## tricia (Jun 10, 2013)

the_traveler and Calwatch's posts touch on a key function of the SSL, or any lounge on long-distance trains:

It's where people can go to socialize without disturbing other folks in coach, or disturbing their companions back in a sleeping car, who might be reading, working, or sleeping. Not doable if the SSL is fully occupied with folks bedded down for the night as early as 9 PMish.

Like the traveler, I too enjoy going to the SSL in the early AM--sometimes with a cup of coffee that I'd like to sip while looking out a window while my roomette companion sleeps later in the lower bunk.

That said, I fully agree that more, and lower-cost sleeping options are much needed. And that meanwhile Amtrak needs to manage SSL use better than this, with both posted guidelines and onboard staff enforcement of them.


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## Ryan (Jun 10, 2013)

Is there an actual rule against sleeping in the lounge?

Or is it a "rule" that offends some people that think things should be done a different way?

I agree Amtrak needs cheaper sleeping accommodations, but Amtrak needs a LOT of things that it's completely unfunded to provide.


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm an early riser. One of the things I do early on when traveling alone is to call Mrs. Crockett. I go to the SSL to call her so as to not disturb my fellow passengers. If folks are passed out in the SSL I'll get away from them if possible, which is usually doable at the table end of things. If not, tough, the SSL is the place to go in such a situation and I'll try to be considerate, but...


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## FriskyFL (Jun 10, 2013)

Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.


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## PaulM (Jun 10, 2013)

dlagrua said:


> We always travel by sleeper but almost every time that we have tried to enter the sightseer lounge the inconsiderate creeps from coach hog all of the seats for the entire trip. We pay more money to travel than they do and we should certainly have a right to sit in the SSL for an hour or two. Instead you have those inconsiderate creeps using it as a sleeper car. The rule should be one hours of use at a time for everyone. The SSL is not just for coach passengers that are too stingy to buy a roomette and too dam inconsiderate to let anyone but themselves use the car. I am writing a letter to customer service to voice my discontent. We must get the lounge lizards ejected from that car after an hour or two and open it up to all passengers.


Wow! This post almost makes me ashamed to be a sleeping car passenger. First of all, in my experience, the SSL is rarely full - climbing the Rockies out of Denver maybe. Secondly, if it is full and someone is occupying more than one seat, simply ask them if it is taken. Nine times out of 10, not only will they free up a seat, but they will leave altogether knowing they have been caught. If they don't free up the seat, then it's time to speak to the authorities.

A complaint to customer service worded like this would only make it harder to get them to address real customer service problems.

By the way, thanks to the OP for the photos. I always enjoy lounge lizard threads; but I never seem to be able to stay awke late enough to catch the action.


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## JayPea (Jun 10, 2013)

The only time I generally use the SSL is in the middle of the night and have no problem with passengers sleeping there. Oftentimes I'm the only one awake in the SSL at thos hours. I have seen the conductor wake up those sleeping in the SSL promptly at 6AM; otherwise in my experience they leave them alone. And I sadly agree with with Paul regarding the post above his. Too bad some sleeping car passengers have that attitude concerning those folks in coach.


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## tonys96 (Jun 10, 2013)

I travel in coach when I travel alone, and sometimes for one night trips, with the g/f. We are visitors to the SSL, (two hours max at any time) and we usually sit at a table. We are always glad to share it, ala the diner, to meet new folks. My gripes are those who sit in SSL at tables two to a table, and refuse to share it for long periods of time. As for sleeping there, I am on the fence....I, too, am one who like to rise early and go sit in the SSL with a cup of coffee, and if there are no places because sleeping folks have taken them all, wwell....that kinda negates the SightSeer part of the name and use of the car, doesn't it?

Here is the difficulty: If it is allowed at all, then it is allowed everywhere/all the time. Why would it be allowed to take up 3/4 seats sleeping at 2:00 am, and not at 2:00 pm?

But it doesn't matter, accouding to some posters in another thread, the conductors are too busy operating the train to "discipline" either pax or employees. :wacko:


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## Ryan (Jun 10, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> But it doesn't matter, accouding to some posters in another thread, the conductors are too busy operating the train to "discipline" either pax or employees. :wacko:


False.
I said no such thing.

In fact, I said the exactly opposite.

But we should probably keep that discussion in it's own thread rather than spawn sub-discussions of it all over the site.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jun 10, 2013)

How was this "problem" handled by the various railroads pre-Amtrak?


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## tonys96 (Jun 10, 2013)

Ryan said:


> tonys96 said:
> 
> 
> > But it doesn't matter, accouding to some posters in another thread, the conductors are too busy operating the train to "discipline" either pax or employees. :wacko:
> ...


Touched an exposed nerve?


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## Train Rider (Jun 10, 2013)

Mass transportation brings three types of people:

Those who take liberties with the facilities and either don't know or don't care how it impacts others.

Those who's sensibilities offend easily and want to make a rule so they can avoid talking to people in group one.

Everyone else (vast majority)

In my experience, it's the folks in group #2 that are the biggest pains in the butt for they are the ones who get rules made that Group 1 does not bother to follow and make life annoying for Group 3.


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## Joeker (Jun 10, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> How was this "problem" handled by the various railroads pre-Amtrak?


For one, most railroads that operated first class service that is Pullman cars, (Santa Fe, UP, California Zephyr, Southern, NP and GN B&O PRR NYC ACL Seaboard) also operated separate first class lounge cars, either end of train observation cars or separate high level dome cars.

There was very little "mingling" between coach and first class as there was even a first class diner on board some trains.


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## Ryan (Jun 10, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > tonys96 said:
> ...


Yeah, I tend to get a little bent out of shape when people claim that I've said something when I've clearly said the exact opposite thing.

Repeatedly.

But hey, maybe I'm funny like that.


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## MiRider (Jun 10, 2013)

JayPea said:


> The only time I generally use the SSL is in the middle of the night and have no problem with passengers sleeping there. Oftentimes I'm the only one awake in the SSL at thos hours. I have seen the conductor wake up those sleeping in the SSL promptly at 6AM; otherwise in my experience they leave them alone. And I sadly agree with with Paul regarding the post above his. Too bad some sleeping car passengers have that attitude concerning those folks in coach.


Just posting to agree with all of the above.


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## June the Coach Rider (Jun 10, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.


Thank you, this is exactly what I was thinking but knew that I would be attacked by the sleeper crowd. If you have a sleeper, then why are you worried about the SSL during the night? If these people are there when there is something to see, as in when it is light out, then complain, but at night, what besides darkness and lights are you needing the SSL for?


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## VentureForth (Jun 10, 2013)

I love hanging out in the SSL to actually SIGHT SEE at night. I enjoy going through sleepy little towns, and even the Mojave Dessert with a full moon can be pretty cool. I can't figure out how anyone from coach can actually find it more comfortable to sleep in the SSL than in their coach seat unless they are on the floor...


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## tonys96 (Jun 10, 2013)

Ryan said:


> tonys96 said:
> 
> 
> > But it doesn't matter, accouding to some posters in another thread, the conductors are too busy operating the train to "discipline" either pax or employees. :wacko:
> ...





Ryan said:


> "But the conductor has far more on his place."- (sic)


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## VentureForth (Jun 10, 2013)

Sounds like we need a conductor on this thread.


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## amamba (Jun 10, 2013)

I have no problem with folks sleeping there late at night. I have compassion for those that don't have the resources to afford a sleeper rather than disdain like some other posters.

Kindness and empathy can go a long way in this world.


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## JayPea (Jun 10, 2013)

I have no problem with folks sleeping in the lounge either, as I stated earlier. I couldn't do it, though, especially sleeping on the floor. I could never get comfortable doing so. I'm much better off sleeping in coach seats. I'm just at the beginning of that age where hard floors don't do it for me any more.


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## tonys96 (Jun 10, 2013)

amamba said:


> I have no problem with folks sleeping there late at night. I have compassion for those that don't have the resources to afford a sleeper rather than disdain like some other posters.
> Kindness and empathy can go a long way in this world.


I do not think it ia a lack of compassion situation. I am sad some see it that way. I travel in coach when I am traveling alone, and like to sit in the SSL at times. Sometimed early in the morning. Should I be denied the option to sit at a table in the lounge and watch the sun rise, so others can sleep in it instead?

I would go for allowing the penalty box seats be used, but not the tables. Leave at least half of the SSL for it's intended use all the time.

The problem would be enforcing such a deal.


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## the_traveler (Jun 10, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> I love hanging out in the SSL to actually SIGHT SEE at night. I enjoy going through sleepy little towns, and even the Mojave Dessert with a full moon can be pretty cool. I can't figure out how anyone from coach can actually find it more comfortable to sleep in the SSL than in their coach seat unless they are on the floor...


The same here. On both counts.

I enjoy the night views on a night with a full moon. And I also do not see how it's more comfortable sleeping in a hard seat and bright full lights in the SSL vs a soft reclining seat and dimmed lights in coach? (As I've said before I've traveled many overnight in coach.)


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## amamba (Jun 10, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > I have no problem with folks sleeping there late at night. I have compassion for those that don't have the resources to afford a sleeper rather than disdain like some other posters.
> ...


Have you ever asked anyone to move if they are where you would like to sit? I didn't see photos of people sleeping at the booths in the tables, either, but then I have never gone down to the SSL during the time periods that folks are talking about.

I guess it seems like there must be a way for everyone to co-exist in the SSL in these late night/early morning hours.

I have never traveled in LD coach, but personally I am not comfortable at all sleeping next to a stranger, nor can I sleep in a recliner. If I couldn't afford sleeper, I would absolutely be attempting to sleep in the LSL. And at 5 feet tall I would probably fit a little better than some of the taller men with their feet hanging off the edge of the seats. 

And my compassion and kindness was directed at one particular poster who likes to make nasty comments about coach pax, some of which are little more than lightly veiled insults.


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 10, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> And I also do not see how it's more comfortable sleeping in a hard seat and bright full lights in the SSL vs a soft reclining seat and dimmed lights in coach? (As I've said before I've traveled many overnight in coach.)


I'm not really in favor of the SSL being taken over and turned into makeshift berths, but I can see where if one had a loud, heavyset snorer, who had not bathed in several days, nor brushed their teeth after eating garlic, bean and cheese burritos brought from home and left to ripen for several days before being consumed, one might find the SSL more comfortable.


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## the_traveler (Jun 10, 2013)

Yes, I have asked quite a few of the sleeping lizards if they would move so I can sit down. Because this is a public site seen by many, I'll keep their response clean, and just say they weren't too happy to be woken up in "their" seat(s).


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 10, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > And I also do not see how it's more comfortable sleeping in a hard seat and bright full lights in the SSL vs a soft reclining seat and dimmed lights in coach? (As I've said before I've traveled many overnight in coach.)
> ...


I had the same thought. How many of them were chased into the SSL due to the "neighbors" in coach. Heck, some of them might be sleeper passengers getting away from their traveling companion for the same or other reasons. Ever hear of men sleeping on the couch?


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## PerRock (Jun 10, 2013)

In response to a few posts here...

While it would be nice that the people wanting to socialize at 3am do so in the SSL, this is not always the case, I've been awake in many a coach car at some ungodly hour because some folks near by me want to be chatty. Whereas (sadly) the SSL is a fair bit quieter.

For those who can't fathom getting a good nights sleep on the floor or the harder seats. Some folks (myself included) can't get a good nights sleep in a sitting-up position (including the reclined-ness of the coach seats). I basically don't sleep at all on airlines. And for me sleeping on the hard ground is much preferable then sitting up all night in a seat. I find it isn't much different, comfortably wise, then camping.

In the few trips I've taken overnight with an SSL on the train, the crew usually dim the lights in there as well as the coaches. However it's been a few years since I've been in an SSL at night so they may have changed this.

Have any of you high & mighty sleeper passengers who think the SSL is for you tried asking a person sleeping in the SSL to move? Or all of you just ranting online?

peter


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 10, 2013)

:hi: Nice pics of the Lounge Lizards! O Some LD Trains the Conductors run off people whom are Racked out on the Couches and Seats in the SSL but Ive Never seen them make People Sleeping on the Floor go Back to Coach!

A couple of Better places to Rack out are Downstairs in the Cafe/SightseerLounge on the Bench of the Long Table ( ATrashCan or Sign may say its Closed but I've slept there with No Problem Several Times/Dark, Quiet, Comfortable and Flat!) Also the Area Behind the Last Rows of Seats in a Coach if Nothing is Stored there makes a Good Sleeping Area! If the Downstairs Coach Seating Area is not Fyull it also makes a Good Place to stretch out and Catch some Zs!! ^_^


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## pennyk (Jun 10, 2013)

A long time ago, when I was married and traveled (in a roomette) with a loudly snoring husband, in the middle of the night, I would go to the Viewliner cafe car and attempt to sleep (sitting up) or read. The cafe car is much less comfortable than the superliner lounge. I cannot remember any other passengers in the cafe car. Of course, crew was in and out.

As to Superliner lounge cars, I generally only frequent the lounge car during the day and rarely have had problems finding a seat. The one time I spent a considerable amount of time in the lounge at night was on the CZ from Denver westbound. I had befriended a very cute 30 year old (coach passenger) in the Denver station who interacted with me as if I was his age.    That evening a group of "young people" hung out in the lounge (eating, drinking, chatting, etc.) until well after midnight. I "partied" with them until about 11pm (which made this middle-aged woman feel very young). I do not think their presence in the lounge prevented any other passengers from enjoying the view.


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## roomette (Jun 10, 2013)

You Party Animal!


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## Ocala Mike (Jun 10, 2013)

Well, I don't know if something like this is up to the conductor or not, but I remember one of my trips on the Meteor or Star where the conductor announced that the cafe car would be closed for "cleanup" at 2:00 am and not open again until 6:00 am. He cleaned everyone out too, as I recall.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 10, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > And I also do not see how it's more comfortable sleeping in a hard seat and bright full lights in the SSL vs a soft reclining seat and dimmed lights in coach? (As I've said before I've traveled many overnight in coach.)
> ...


Was that you next to me???

Seriously though, once I was on a CL trip with a very crowded SSL & asked a guy if the seat next to him was taken ( jacket on the seat). He said yes, it was his daughter's seat, who was in their room taking a nap!!! :wacko: I said " Well, thanx I'll get up when she gets back! He didnt say a word to me the entire time I was sitting there ( about 1 & 1/2 hours )!!!! Some people have no consideration for other's!!!

As far as the night time sleepers in the SSL, it's a hard call for me! I cant sleep in coach, that's why I'll only travel in a sleeper overnight, other wise I dont take the train!!!


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## Eyegor (Jun 10, 2013)

I have to admit, after looking at those photos, I would be more comfortable sleeping in my Coach seat. I've done it many times and so far have not experienced a totally impossible seat mate. My first ride on a SSL consist is coming up in a couple weeks, (I'm an Easterner), and I'll have to scope it out. Maybe not as bad as it looks. I've got a sleeper but I'm a night owl too so only time can tell.


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 10, 2013)

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FriskyFL" data-cid="447153" data-time="1370872370"><p>

Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.</p></blockquote> yea so they are occupying one seat at a time


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 10, 2013)

Rail Freak said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Sorry I grossed you out and you had to move h34r: , but those burritos were _mi sobroso_! :wub:

:lol:


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## PerRock (at work) (Jun 10, 2013)

Ocala Mike said:


> Well, I don't know if something like this is up to the conductor or not, but I remember one of my trips on the Meteor or Star where the conductor announced that the cafe car would be closed for "cleanup" at 2:00 am and not open again until 6:00 am. He cleaned everyone out too, as I recall.


They often close the lower level of the SSL periodically thru ought the day for cleanup and to give the staff a break (mainly meals). But the upper level stays open. Even when the SL Cafe cars are closed for whatever reason you are usually allowed to pass thru them (if needed), and often (depends on the crew) you can still hang out in the car, you just have to be aware that the crew may have you move around some as the clean. I spent the night once on the LSL hanging out in the cafe playing cards with some folks. When the crew started to clean up we had to switch tables to allow them to clean where we were, but that was all really.

peter


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 10, 2013)

I honestly do not get the complaint. There are no more than few lounge lizards at most and they are all usually up by 7 when people come back to the lounge.


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## VentureForth (Jun 10, 2013)

PerRock said:


> Have any of you high & mighty sleeper passengers who think the SSL is for you tried asking a person sleeping in the SSL to move? Or all of you just ranting online?
> peter


Two posts above yours:



the_traveler said:


> Yes, I have asked quite a few of the sleeping lizards if they would move so I can sit down. Because this is a public site seen by many, I'll keep their response clean, and just say they weren't too happy to be woken up in "their" seat(s).


But seriously, "High and mighty sleeper passengers?" Seriously? Are they not entitled to lounge in the SSL and socialize with other guests?

It's bad enough that some conductors close the downstairs at night (Anyone got a blue book precident for this?). This is really the ONLY place on the train in the middle of the night where folks can chat and enjoy the company of others. I've had many enjoyable times in the middle of the night in the SSL.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 10, 2013)

Shawn Ryu said:


> <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FriskyFL" data-cid="447153" data-time="1370872370"><p>Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.</p></blockquote> yea so they are occupying one seat at a time


Only problem with this is the Night Owls, including those in Sleepers, need a Place to go during "Quiet Hours" (Generally 10PM-7AM) on LD Trains! In fact Announcmens are made @ 10PM that those wanting to Chat, Use Cell Phones etc. should take themselves to the Siight Seer Lounge or the Cafe/Lounge on Single Level Trains! The Diner or CCC is where the Conductors hang out during the Night on most Trains and Ive enjoyed hanging out there also when the Lounge was Full or Rowdy because of Party Animals like Penny and her Teenage Friends! :giggle:


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 10, 2013)

But they are all generally gone by 1 am


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## FriskyFL (Jun 10, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Shawn Ryu said:
> 
> 
> > <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FriskyFL" data-cid="447153" data-time="1370872370"><p>Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.</p></blockquote> yea so they are occupying one seat at a time
> ...


Agreed, that's the best way to deal with the lounge vagrants - have a loud, rowdy party, interrupt their beauty sleep so they have to slink back to their coaches. Barring that, leave the lights on all night. Or pump in Celine Dion music. Or charge them double, since they're in essence occupying two seats.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jun 10, 2013)

I will admit I have slept in the _*Pacific Parlour Car*_ on the *Coast Starlight*  Not all night of course but maybe for an hour or so as a nap before going to bed. Nothing is more relaxing than getting a Bloody Mary or a good Beer right at last call and kicking back in one of the swivel chairs to unwind from a good train day. Of course that leaves me wide open for a nap attack, but that is nothing new as falling asleep in front of the TV at home is an almost nightly ritual.


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## Sealink (Jun 10, 2013)

The things people will do to get a good seat in the lounge! h34r:


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## Bus Nut (Jun 10, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.


Wow, almost sounds like there IS demand for the slumbercoach (hostel on wheels--see "Some Like It Hot"). How many times have we heard there is no demand for 2nd class sleeper?

Personally, when I rode CZ in coach I was very comfortable in my seat. Cant imagine getting any rest in a SSL! ymmv


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## Shawn Ryu (Jun 10, 2013)

I think slumbercoach should experimented on busy routes. I woluld like a bed but i am not paying for two.


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## Samantha (Jun 10, 2013)

My first Amtrak trip this summer and I will be doing long distance in coach on the CL. Glad I read this! Don't want my picture plastered on here with a lounge lizard tag. I'll suffer sleeping in coach if it kills me...which by some accounts, it may come close to doing.


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## Ryan (Jun 10, 2013)

I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 11, 2013)

Similar situation on VIA Dome Cars:

A “Park Car” was added early to the Ocean this year and it’s been open to all passengers including coach. Previously the Park ran only from mid-June to mid-October when Sleeper Plus Class was offered.

When restricted to sleeper passengers, the dome lights have always been off at night and the dome and observation were available 24 hs/day. Now to keep passengers from “camping-out” they leave the lights on and the car closes from 10pm to 7am.

Sleeper-Plus Class returns to the Ocean this week and the Dome will be restricted to those passengers only once again……..and hopefully back to no lights and a 24 hr operation!


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## VentureForth (Jun 11, 2013)

The argument against slumber coaches has generally been a matter of finding the money to build and maintain yet another category of railcar. However, I have been chided for my suggestion that something like the Auto Train should be an all sleeper train where ALL passengers travel ALL night and NONE get on or off in between.

Slumber coaches, as I have seen here in the US, carry much fewer passengers than a standard coach. AND, they have pretty lousy daytime configurations. Basically, it may be hard to generate not only the revenue to match that of coach, but to also cover the washing of linens, additional maintenance, etc.

I would LOVE to see a 2nd class sleeper with no dining or Metro Lounge/Club Acela benefits. As little as 10 years ago, it would be EASY to get a roomette for under $100 - heck, I was called and offered one once from ABQ to LAX. I've been able to get onboard upgrades between St. Louis and Dallas for $35. It would be very difficult to offer a specific service to cater to those in between prices. But those days are gone. I think that there is now a demand. But you have to be careful - you offer a 2nd class sleeper and you'll lose a LOT of folks from what is offered today. It would almost have to be priced right at the roomette price minus the meals, minus maybe 10% for privacy.


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## Ryan (Jun 11, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> However, I have been chided for my suggestion that something like the Auto Train should be an all sleeper train where ALL passengers travel ALL night and NONE get on or off in between.


Much like the wanting a second class sleeper, we should be pushing for more options for travelers, not less. Coach is all some people can afford. Rather than force them into driving or flying, I think that it's excellent that Amtrak give them an alternative. I'd love for them to have 2 alternatives (first and second class sleepers), but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


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## VentureForth (Jun 11, 2013)

Well, that's exactly why in my All-Sleeper Auto Train suggestion, I suggested multiple classes of sleeper. I agree that there is no way that everyone who wants to ride the Auto Train today would pay for a Roomette or Bedroom. But I also can guess that just about everyone in coach would love to sleep horizontally.


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## the_traveler (Jun 11, 2013)

My first overnight in a sleeper on Amtrak was in a slumber coach on one of the silvers from NYP-TPA back in the 1970's. as (mainly) a single traveler, I would love to see something similar offered.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jun 11, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> But I also can guess that just about everyone in coach would love to sleep horizontally.


I agree with this. I don't think it's a matter of Amtrak needing to offer a more reasonable class of sleeper. Sure, there may be a demand for that, but there will always be a demand for coach too. So, as long as there are coach cars, there will be people wanting to get out of coach & sleep somewhere else.

Here's are two extremely easy solutions, both of which will increase Amtrak revenue:

1) Charge for lounge access. Possibly give sleeper pax free access, but make it available as an upgrade for coach pax. Then, if coach pax have paid for their upgrade and feel like sleeping there, more power to 'em.

2) Sell lounge car seats as a fare. I know they're uncomfortable long term, but perhaps if Amtrak sold them, they could use some of the revenue to refurbish them a bit.

Long term, I don't see how Amtrak justifies this free lounge space. As airlines do, they're going to have to monetize everything.

Secondly, I still think that the reason sleepers cost more is because of demand, not because they're inherently so much "better" than coach. A superliner coach can seat 62 people upstairs. Theoretically, you could fit 20 roomettes with 40 people in that space. So, if Amtrak was literally charging for the amount of space it sold, a roomette should only cost 50% more than a coach seat.

Of course, that doesn't happen, because supply & demand drive the price up, just as they do with Business Class and First Class on an airplane. So, even if some kind of slumbercoach did exist, and there was a demand for it, that same demand would drive the price above what many people in coach could pay, thus leading them to sleep on the floor of the SSL again.

And to me, the floor sleeping is the real issue. I tried to traverse the SSL one night & nearly tripped over sleeping people many times. That can't possibly be safe, either for the passengers or the crew trying to walk through - especially in the dark at night. They can let people sleep on the seats, but they shouldn't allow safety violations.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 11, 2013)

My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.


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## roomette (Jun 11, 2013)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.


Like the car in the I Love Lucy episode.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 11, 2013)

roomette said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.
> ...


I've seen every episode but not in years, if you got a clip I'd watch it.


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## PerRock (Jun 11, 2013)

I've always like the European design for 2nd class sleepers, or Couchettes. The description from Seat 61:



> Couchettes are basic, inexpensive sleeping accommodation, with 6 bunks per compartment. On many routes you can also choose to travel in a less-crowded 4-berth compartment, for only a few euros more. By day, a couchette compartment is an ordinary seating compartment, with three-a-side bench seats facing each other (the picture of the French couchette below shows the middle bunk lowered to form the seat back in daytime mode). At night, the seats convert to bunks. Each bunk is basically a padded ledge supplied with pillow, sheet and blanket which you arrange yourself. Each berth has its own reading light. Washrooms and toilets are available at the end of the corridor. The sexes are normally mixed in couchettes, as you do not normally fully undress, but on many routes women can ask for a berth in a ladies-only compartment. Couchette cars come in many different designs, all based on the same format.


Basically 4-6 people share a compartment, with 2 benches in the day time & then converts to beds for the night. If Amtrak were to do them, I would suggest not including the meals, or have a meal-option upgrade that would give the people who paid for the upgrade a voucher for their meals.

peter


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## crescent2 (Jun 11, 2013)

DP: I agree with most of your post, but if passengers had _paid _for lounge access (or it was advertised as included with sleeper fare) and they arrived to find it taken by people sprawled all over the seats sleeping, I think they'd be madder about it than some of them are now.

Re the lizards-- I think the objection is that the lounge's purpose, other than for sightseeing, is to be a place where people can socialize and talk (a lounge). It's not advertised as an alternate first come, first served sleeping accommodation, so that upsets (some of) the people who go there expecting to be able to use it as a lounge.

Although I'm a night owl, I doubt that I'd ever make use of the lounge during the night, so the lizards don't affect me. However, I can also understand that others might want to use it. There's no other place to talk later at night without disturbing the sleep of those nearby. I do understand, though, why coach passengers would want a place to lie down, especially if it was totally empty when they arrived there.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Jun 11, 2013)

The first time I was on a train I boarded the CL in ALC around 3AM, I went to the lounge until we got to PGH. When I board in ALC I am typically too excited to sleep for awhile, and sitting quietly in a coach full of sleeping people doesn't appeal to me. In recent years I've found it impossible to find a free seat in the lounge on most trains out of ALC. I usually get somebody to move, and if they don't I ask the conductor who usually excuses a couple people from a table. After I sit down most times I am joined by another coach pax who also wants to stretch their legs and sit up and chat. Sometimes the lizards get annoyed, others will complain when I start a quiet conversation... I remind them that the sleeping cars are forward...


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## NW cannonball (Jun 12, 2013)

Some kind of cheaper sleeping accommodation would be welcome to me - the no-meals cramped Slumbercoach was good for my needs way back when.

People sprawling on the SSL seats and on the floor don't bother me as long as there is a free seat or two to just sit in and maybe talk quietly. But the floor-and-seat-sleeping ones better not arrive before 2300 and be gone by 05:30

*And *not blocking the aisles.

Last coach trip, unusually, couldn't sleep in my seat - went downstairs and slept on the floor in the baggage part of the coach-baggage - very little baggage there and the carpet was not too gross. When I woke up at 05:30 and went back to my seat there were a few more people sleeping there.

I understand that on the very few remaining JR overnight trains there is an option to pay a bit extra for floor space - but that's in Japan.


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## VentureForth (Jun 12, 2013)

Unfortunately in Japan, the rail system is so efficient and the country is so small, they have to actually run the train slow to make a viable overnight train. And these are on par with major first class operations around the world - ie: the train cruises in Austrailia or India. I think there are only one or two 'blue trains' left. I doubt I'll ever get to experience them. My favorite trains to ride in Japan are the Limited Express. They are slower than the Shinkansen, cover longer distances than the commuters, and trolley-food service is offered. My favorite was the Azusa before it was rerouted. I was only in 10th grade or so the last time I rode it. But there was one point where it had to get a helper engine added to make the climb through the mountains. Now, a tunnel has eliminated the need for the helper. And more scenery is lost to miles of underground track... The country is just too small, though, for Rocky Mountaineer or even Empire Builder-esque type trains though there are several sightseeing day trains.


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## PaulM (Jun 12, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.


Sure, the real reason has to do with availability of equipment, standardization of parts, etc. But you have to admit that AU'ers have claimed that most Americans would find 2nd class sleepers beneath their dignity, a cultural thing. But then they probably were confusing slumber coaches (slightly smaller roomettes) with couchettes (European hostel type open bunks).


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## amamba (Jun 12, 2013)

PaulM said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.
> ...


There is absolutely no way, at this point in my life, that I would share a couchette type sleeper with a stranger.

It was fine when I was 20 and broke, though.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm a Fan of Slumber Coaches, they worked fine when i used to ride the Crescent from WAS-ATL Overnight! It really wouldnt cost that much to convert a few of the Amfleet Coaches to Slumber Coaches and once the New Viewliners are in Service possibly even have a few spots available in the Regular Sleepers (sans Meals)@ a Price between Coach and First class when they not Sold Out, this would replace the old Low Bucket Upgrade On-Board that Amtrak used to have ! Why not Raise revenue in an Empty Room??

Since I stay in Hostels so much ,and have made so many International Trips including riding in Very Crowded Third World Trains and Busses, I have no problem in sharing with Strangers when Traveling but I'm not a Female and I don't have a Privacy Fear! id be all in favor of Couchettes on our Trains, especially the Western 2 Night ones! YMMV


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## Mark Del Monte (Jun 14, 2013)

PerRock said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.
> ...


I have to agree with Peter and Texas Eagle. When I was a kid even the cost of sleeper was outrageous for even 1980's and 90's standards. It actually has come down in price imho. Yet I stil can't afford a sleeper. When I was a kid me and my dad were both as you would call us "Lounge Lizzards". However we used the etiquette of arrive by 12 be gone and out before 6 when the lounge re opens. In fact the LSA on one of our CZ trips was nice enough to tap us on the shoulder and tell us she would be opening in 10 min and already had the coffee going. I am still miffed that Amtrak did not try to copy the seats on the old Santa Fe Hi Level cars. They went back so far that you did not need to sleep in the lounge. Todays Amtrak seats barely recline making the leg rest almost useless for comfort. The real answer would be Amtrak installing seats similar to airline international business. This could be a new class of coach with semi lie flat seats but no meals included or other amenities.


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2013)

> ... when the lounge reopens ..."


Huh????? The Sightseer Lounge is open 24 hours a day - it doesn't close! So there goes that argument! (Yea, the CAFÉ does close, but the Lounge {Car} is open all night. So if you think you're sleeping in a closed car, you're wrong!)


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## roomette (Jun 14, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> there goes that argument!


He was arguing?


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## Mark Del Monte (Jun 14, 2013)

No I'm not saying that it is a closed car at any point in a trip. Diner yes Lounge no. However as you said the food service portion does close overnight. When I have slept in the lounge car I have always slept downstairs and never have blocked an aisle or displaced someone from finding an open seat. However on the trains I have done it on there weren't exactly hundreds of people trying to sleep in there. Maybe me, my father, and a few others. All in all like I said at one time the older hi levels and the Heritage cars had extremely comfortable coach seats that were almost lie flat. In the early 90's even the superliners had more recline. I could get at least a few hours of shut eye in my coach seat. The last few times I have ridden a Superliner or Superliner II the recline seemed just slightly more than coach on an airliner. I get that a few more seats in coach equals more revenue but I think the permanent solution is a coach class with those nearly lie flat seats like you would find on an international flight in business class. You could have it where there are no extra perks above coach except for the seat. Price it between coach and sleeper.


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2013)

roomette said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > there goes that argument!
> ...


Argument = a reason given in proof or rebuttal, discourse intended to persuade (Merriam-Webster dictionary)


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## roomette (Jun 14, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> roomette said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Thank you. I still don't think he was making an argument.


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## JayPea (Jun 14, 2013)

roomette said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > roomette said:
> ...


With apologies to Daddy Dewdrop :lol: don't ya jes' love it??? An argument over what constitutes an argument!!!!


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## roomette (Jun 14, 2013)

You should be allowed to sleep in the SSL if you are a paying coach customer. But, not if you are using AGR.


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## Aaron (Jun 14, 2013)

Mark Del Monte said:


> I am still miffed that Amtrak did not try to copy the seats on the old Santa Fe Hi Level cars. They went back so far that you did not need to sleep in the lounge. Todays Amtrak seats barely recline making the leg rest almost useless for comfort.


Yeah, why is this? There's enough seat pitch (legroom distance) to park a small car, yet the seats themselves hardly recline any more than airline seats. When my kids ride in coach, that legrest folds up to combine with the seat bottom to make a nice bed for them, but I have a really tough time sleeping in coach because the seats still feel like they're almost straight up. Even just a few more degrees of recline would make a huge difference.


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## the_traveler (Jun 14, 2013)

The seats are straight up, and almost like a plane? In a LD Superliner or an Amfleet II? That I don't believe! In an Amfleet I, the California Cars and some Corridor Cars, but not on LD trains I don't.


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## JayPea (Jun 14, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> The seats are straight up, and almost like a plane? In a LD Superliner or an Amfleet II? That I don't believe! In an Amfleet I, the California Cars and some Corridor Cars, but not on LD trains I don't.


I don't recall encountering any Superliner where the seats didn't recline much more than in a plane.


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## roomette (Jun 14, 2013)

I never saw an airline seat go back that far


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## Aaron (Jun 14, 2013)

roomette said:


> I never saw an airline seat go back that far


I can't say how representative that is of the Superliner LD seats I've ridden in. I don't know if there are multiple types or models. I do know that the angle of the picture seems to accentuate the recline. Here are a few airplane pictures that seem to show a similar degree of recline:
















Whether or not these pictures are representative, what I know is that when I ride in coach, the seats _feel_ like they hardly recline any more than airplane seats. What the seat feels like is probably the main determinant in whether or not I can sleep, not what it looks like in a picture.


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## Interested (Jun 14, 2013)

Anyone ever see any "lounge lizards" on the Lake Shore Limited - or other single level trains?


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## Alexandria Nick (Jun 14, 2013)

I almost exclusively ride in Superliners and their seat pitch is incredible compared to any airliner that's not, like, Emirates


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## June the Coach Rider (Jun 14, 2013)

roomette said:


> I never saw an airline seat go back that far


This is exactly what they do, I actually keep the leg rest up one more notch so it is straight out from the seat. and my feet rest on the foot rest at the level like the window seat.


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## crescent2 (Jun 14, 2013)

roomette said:


> I never saw an airline seat go back that far


Me either. I WISH!!

The airline coach seats I've used "feel" like they barely go back two inches at the top. I'm sure it's more than that, but they don't feel like they recline much at all. Maybe that's just a perception.


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## benjibear (Jun 14, 2013)

It should be simple that a person is allowed only one seat in the lounge. If somebody wants to use one of those seats the conductor should make them move. Very similar to when you are in coach. You can stretch out between two seats but if the train is full, you need to allow somebody to sit in the next seat.

I was just on the CL and got up at the crack of dawn and needed to stretch. I did go to the lounge and there was one guy sleeping in there but the car was mostly empty. It was a good experiance to be rolling through the towns and farms while most of the people slept and it was light enough to see.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 15, 2013)

Interested said:


> Anyone ever see any "lounge lizards" on the Lake Shore Limited - or other single level trains?


Generally the Conductor hangs out in the Lounge @ Night on the Single Level Trains! I see Night Owls @ the Tables on these Trains but don't recall ever seeing any Lounge Lizards Sleeping there! Maybe the fact that there are no Couches or Chairs, only Tables has Something to do with it, plus the Lights aren't Lowered like on a Superliner Lounge! :unsure:

And it's been Years since I flew in Coach on an Airliner that Reclined as much as the Coach Seats in a Superliner! (Excellent Picture of the Coach Seat Reclined/the One with the Guys Knees Scrunched-up seems Current in Today's Airline Coach Seating!)) BC and First of Course are a Different Matter, but Amtrak doesn't charge $10,000 for Business or First Class Seats either!


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## Bus Nut (Jun 16, 2013)

Mark Del Monte said:


> I get that a few more seats in coach equals more revenue but I think the permanent solution is a coach class with those nearly lie flat seats like you would find on an international flight in business class. You could have it where there are no extra perks above coach except for the seat. Price it between coach and sleeper.


I know Amtrak sees this differently (per the latest PIP), but I agree. On a train like CZ, you need comfy seats that recline all the way or practically all the way to get a good night's sleep in coach. If they keep reducing seat pitch I could see this turning into a perpetual lounge headache for patrons and crew. Not sure it's really worth it for an extra row of seats.

If you want to sleep upright and put a crick in your neck for less there's always Greyhound.

I wonder if the PIP team tried sleeping in coach as part of their study before making these "wonderful" recommendations. I wonder if they considered where the time out of the crews' day is going to come from to keep bathrooms non-nasty for even more people per car? Like it or not, Amtrak does turn people away by having nasty cars. Who wants sewer smell for 12 hours, a la Greyhound?


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## cpamtfan (Jun 16, 2013)

I agree with Mike Del Monte, I think the future is just like he described to bridge the gap between coach and sleeper. The only issue that having these cars would be making consists longer/changing the balance. I think anything more than 12 cars (excluding the LSL/EB) are really pushing it as far as platforming flexability, among other things.


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## berkyo (Aug 20, 2013)

Ok, i have read half of these and have to chime in. At first I was totally ok with people sleeping in the lounge. As long as they realize that they do not have a RIGHT to that spot/s and that is the problem. As I am reading I am thinking so , anyone can sleep there, but what if everyone wants to sleep there? first come first served? If you are a night owl or early riser then you have the right to ask people to move if there is no seat available. It is a common area for use by the whole train. There are valid reasons for people to try to sleep there. Health, questionable seat mates etc. But they do not have the right to sleep there. Thinking this over, Amtrak should make a ruling and enforce no sleeping there. You have a seat that you paid for or a room and that's where you should be. But I have seen people sleeping there on the floor by the windows and I was not offended. I had morning coffee and watched the sunrise. When it began to be noisy they got up and left. But to avoid problems it should be be sleeping there.


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## Sarah Kirschbaum (Aug 20, 2013)

berkyo said:


> Ok, i have read half of these and have to chime in. At first I was totally ok with people sleeping in the lounge. As long as they realize that they do not have a RIGHT to that spot/s and that is the problem. As I am reading I am thinking so , anyone can sleep there, but what if everyone wants to sleep there? first come first served? If you are a night owl or early riser then you have the right to ask people to move if there is no seat available. It is a common area for use by the whole train. There are valid reasons for people to try to sleep there. Health, questionable seat mates etc. But they do not have the right to sleep there. Thinking this over, Amtrak should make a ruling and enforce no sleeping there. You have a seat that you paid for or a room and that's where you should be. But I have seen people sleeping there on the floor by the windows and I was not offended. I had morning coffee and watched the sunrise. When it began to be noisy they got up and left. But to avoid problems it should be be sleeping there.


I have only been on Amtrak twice. On the most recent trip(22 hours), I made 4 trips to the SSL during the day. All 4 times, I was not able to find a seat, so I just kind of stood there. After a while, I got tired and went back to my room. The SSL was packed and had limited seating.... I noticed some people just sit there and read, talk on cell phones, or chat with each other. They were not using the SSL for sightseeing.  Shouldn't there be a time limit on how long each passenger is allowed to sit there?


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## roomette (Aug 20, 2013)

Sarah Kirschbaum said:


> I noticed some people just sit there and read, talk on cell phones, or chat with each other.


OMG, really!! That's horrible! Did you see a doctor? I'm so sorry you had to endure that!


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## rrdude (Aug 20, 2013)

Common courtesy is all we can ask for, and I often see one pax taking up two or three seats. That NEVER stops me from asking "Is that set taken....?"


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## Ziv (Aug 20, 2013)

I agree with TE, Amtrak would be well served to figure out a way to add as inexpensively as possible, a midgrade sleeper option between coach price and roomette price. I would travel more but although coach seats are long they are a pain to sleep in. Lay flat at an angle would be best but maybe vertically staggered single passenger roomettes where there is an upper and lower level on both sides of the train. Didnt Via Rail used to have cars like that? But the problem, as always, is there is no money to do it.

And a rule that you cant use more than one seat in the SSL except between 11pm and 5 am or false dawn, whichever is later, would be nice as well.

Unrepenetent Lounge Lizard Ziv



Texan Eagle said:


> You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.


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## calwatch (Aug 20, 2013)

They had one, called the slumbercoach. It didn't do that well. One thing that would help is a drop down armrest in the middle of the two seats. The open arrangement is great if a couple wants to cuddle, but uncomfortable when sitting next to a stranger. Even airlines have armrests.


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## SarahZ (Aug 20, 2013)

An armrest really doesn't mean much to me when it comes to sitting next to and sleeping next to a stranger. They're still just a few inches away from me.


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## the_traveler (Aug 20, 2013)

This is being posted by one AU member to another. Can we please agree to disagree?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 21, 2013)

The thing is, the Amtrak Roomette is really pushing the sleeping capacity in a railcar. They have packed a double berth into the smallest space possible. Maybe a "discount Roomette" in an all-Roomette car with no meals provided would be a better alternative to triple-tier sleepers.


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## billthebarn (Aug 22, 2013)

Meat Puppet,

I'm sorry I started a "Lounge Lizards" thread....i hadn't noticed yours.

I think the term "lounge lizard" is hilarious. So are the pictures and charactictures. The people who admit to being "a proud lizard"... well it doesn't get much funnier.

The "lizards" don't bother me as much as Amtrak not having a uniform way of dealing with them...A Lounge Lizard Policy. After all the discourse on the forum, we still don't know if the lizards are allowed in the SSL and, if they are, during which hours.

I'm going to talk to some people I know (My father once owned two railroads) about rigging up a freight car for the lizards. It could travel on the rear of LD trains. We're even considering adding a water tank so the lizards can be 'hosed down" (some of these people haven't showered for days. This could be the solution to the need for low cost sleepers.


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## Shawn Ryu (Aug 22, 2013)

berkyo said:


> Ok, i have read half of these and have to chime in. At first I was totally ok with people sleeping in the lounge. As long as they realize that they do not have a RIGHT to that spot/s and that is the problem. As I am reading I am thinking so , anyone can sleep there, but what if everyone wants to sleep there? first come first served? If you are a night owl or early riser then you have the right to ask people to move if there is no seat available. It is a common area for use by the whole train. There are valid reasons for people to try to sleep there. Health, questionable seat mates etc. But they do not have the right to sleep there. Thinking this over, Amtrak should make a ruling and enforce no sleeping there. You have a seat that you paid for or a room and that's where you should be. But I have seen people sleeping there on the floor by the windows and I was not offended. I had morning coffee and watched the sunrise. When it began to be noisy they got up and left. But to avoid problems it should be be sleeping there.


That NEVER happens. Believe me. People most of them go back to their seats.


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## bgiaquin (Aug 27, 2013)

PerRock said:


> Amtrak really needs more affordable sleeper accommodations.


Amen to that! Do not get me wrong, I love riding Amtrak and I do understand that they have to make money, but a lot of the prices just seem flat out ridiculous.


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## gmushial (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm wondering if this isn't route specific... I was on the CZ #5 last week, and since I had things on my mind (mulling over a job offer), I didn't sleep well... and one of the things I did at 230am was to go wander... and I didn't find a single person sleeping in the SSL. There were people talking, there were people with tablets and laptops, there were people talking on their cellphones, but nobody horizontal. Maybe the crew didn't allow such to happen, or maybe the people riding the CZ weren't inclined to do such... don't know. But, just an observation.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 28, 2013)

gmushial said:


> I'm wondering if this isn't route specific... I was on the CZ #5 last week, and since I had things on my mind (mulling over a job offer), I didn't sleep well... and one of the things I did at 230am was to go wander... and I didn't find a single person sleeping in the SSL. There were people talking, there were people with tablets and laptops, there were people talking on their cellphones, but nobody horizontal. Maybe the crew didn't allow such to happen, or maybe the people riding the CZ weren't inclined to do such... don't know. But, just an observation.


I have seen Lounge Lizards in the CZ Sightseer. It must have been this specific crew that did not allow it to happen. Still surprising to find people hanging out there at 2:30am without sleeping. They must be night-shifters or something like that.


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## SarahZ (Aug 28, 2013)

It really just depends. On the SWC, I've seen 1-2 people sleeping on the floor (between the seats and the windows), and sometimes I don't see anyone, even at 3:00 AM or so.


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## gmushial (Aug 28, 2013)

Sorcha said:


> It really just depends. On the SWC,* I've seen 1-2 people sleeping on the floor (between the seats and the windows*), and sometimes I don't see anyone, even at 3:00 AM or so.


Makes for an interesting image - must have been hardcore/experienced travelers to think of such and to be comfortable doing such. ;-)


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## getbent (Aug 28, 2013)

We were on the CZ last week and the lounge car attendant has to repeatedly announce that the "Amtrak Slumber Party was over" and if you'd like to continue sleeping, please go back to your seat. That didn't stop people from sleeping there all day.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 28, 2013)

getbent said:


> We were on the CZ last week and the lounge car attendant has to repeatedly announce that the "Amtrak Slumber Party was over" and if you'd like to continue sleeping, please go back to your seat. That didn't stop people from sleeping there all day.


That's when its time to turn it into a real party! :giggle: That way, if folks want to sleep, they will go back to their seat. 

I was on #5 one time and this couple put a book on one of the double seats to 'reserve' it while they went to lunch - this after doing the same thing before breakfast in Denver. While they were at lunch I moved the book to the 'window trough' and sat there. They came back from lunch about the same time a member of the OBS was coming through the SSL. The OBS said to me "Oh, did someone forget a book when they left that seat?" I said "Yes, it was just sitting here." Without saying a word, the couple took a different, less prime seat, and then after a while, discretely picked up the book from the trough.


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## calwatch (Aug 28, 2013)

If you have a loud conversation on the CZ, then that will drive away the sleepers. On the CONO the conductor ejected a bratty kid and his mom to the lounge car. He was acting like a brat there, which is fine since we were all awake and chatting away, and not bothering people trying to sleep.


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## roomette (Aug 28, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> getbent said:
> 
> 
> > We were on the CZ last week and the lounge car attendant has to repeatedly announce that the "Amtrak Slumber Party was over" and if you'd like to continue sleeping, please go back to your seat. That didn't stop people from sleeping there all day.
> ...


Just curious, would you do the same thing with a purse or electronic device?


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 28, 2013)

roomette said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > getbent said:
> ...


No, definately not. :excl:

I'd give/notify a crew member about those. :mellow:


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## mjaynes288 (Aug 28, 2013)

I just had my worst Amtrak experience ever. I got on the CS at MTZ and went to the SSL. I could not sleep so I started a conversation with the guy in the booth across from me. He knew a lot about trains. A woman sleeping on one of the 3 combo seats tells us to keep it down. I tell her this is the car designated for conversations and if she wants quiet to go to another car. She grumbled and my conversation partner decided to leave.

Later two other passengers were talking at a booth. At one point they asked me what I was doing. I said, "Sudoku" and held up the book. 5 minutes later the complainer starts ranting about how we are yelling across the car. I pointed out the two people who were talking were sitting in the same booth and I was quietly completing my puzzle. She continued to scream that we were the rudest people on earth, couldn't we see people were trying to sleep. I informed her the SSL is for conversation at night, if she wanted quiet she should sleep in a quiet car which is any car on the train but the SSL. I refused to be bullied into silence. The other passengers sleeping there started to yell "shut up" and "If you don't shut up I will come over there and beat you." One of the people who was talking left and thing went quiet.

My first conversation partner returned. I asked him to sit with me so we could talk. He did but he also whispered so I could not hear him over the train noise. He kept glancing nervously at the complainer and after he figured out there was no way to have a quiet conversation he left again.

An hour after the outburst an Amtrak employee walked through I complained. He quietly announced, "The SSL is for convesation," and walked away. This was the same employee that the first time I slept in the SSL woke everyone up when he came on and 20 minutes before each stop to ask their destination.

The threat of assault triggered my PTSD. I find this situation totally unacceptable. Something needs to be done!


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## Peggy (Aug 28, 2013)

Well crap. 

I dunno how to label myself.

A holier than thou sleeper person or a lowly coacher..... :unsure:

My first LD trip is in a couple of weeks and I have a sleeper for the two 24 hours legs and am coaching it on the two 16 hour ones.

As a lowly bookseller, I've saved up to afford the sleepers partly for privacy and partly for some rest.

For the coach part, I plan on bringing my eye mask and ear plugs.

I guess I can pretend to be Elizabeth Taylor from Fort worth to Chicago and Elly Mae Clampett from Chicago to Albany.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 28, 2013)

Peggy said:


> Well crap.  I dunno how to label myself.
> 
> A holier than thou sleeper person or a lowly coacher..... :unsure:
> 
> ...


:giggle:

I'll tell you what you'll be. An Amtrak passenger who has paid (with $ or points) to ride the train, just like everyone else on the train (excluding the crew).


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## Peggy (Aug 28, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Peggy said:
> 
> 
> > Well crap.  I dunno how to label myself.
> ...


That's pretty much my thinkin' on it!!!


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## Braniff747SP (Aug 28, 2013)

Agreed that it'd be nice if Amtrak had cheaper sleeping accommodations (a la Europe, maybe, rooms being shared with four?).

On the topic, I can't see how sleeping in the SSL can be more comfortable than the coach seats, but I'm not using the car at 2AM, so I could care less.

Curiously, on the _Starlight_, I have seen people in sleeping bags sleeping in the arcade. Not a bad idea if you come prepared with a sleeping bad and mat.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 28, 2013)

During the Chicago Town Hall meeting, Mr. Boardman did have a talk about rules, and not been a big fan of more rules. It was a few years back, and we (the town) were talking about some other pax issue.

Personal I don't hang out in the lounge, just not my thing. On my last trip LSL + TE never made it to the lounge once.

I have see the homeless shelter on the City of New Orleans. The crew had a door open, so only half the lounge had sleepers. The other side near the open door had to much noise for them.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 28, 2013)

mjaynes288 said:


> I just had my worst Amtrak experience ever. I got on the CS at MTZ and went to the SSL. I could not sleep so I started a conversation with the guy in the booth across from me. He knew a lot about trains. A woman sleeping on one of the 3 combo seats tells us to keep it down. I tell her this is the car designated for conversations and if she wants quiet to go to another car. She grumbled and my conversation partner decided to leave.
> Later two other passengers were talking at a booth. At one point they asked me what I was doing. I said, "Sudoku" and held up the book. 5 minutes later the complainer starts ranting about how we are yelling across the car. I pointed out the two people who were talking were sitting in the same booth and I was quietly completing my puzzle. She continued to scream that we were the rudest people on earth, couldn't we see people were trying to sleep. I informed her the SSL is for conversation at night, if she wanted quiet she should sleep in a quiet car which is any car on the train but the SSL. I refused to be bullied into silence. The other passengers sleeping there started to yell "shut up" and "If you don't shut up I will come over there and beat you." One of the people who was talking left and thing went quiet.
> 
> My first conversation partner returned. I asked him to sit with me so we could talk. He did but he also whispered so I could not hear him over the train noise. He kept glancing nervously at the complainer and after he figured out there was no way to have a quiet conversation he left again.
> ...


I've also found an increasing amount of arrogant passengers on Amtrak. Some don't believe me, but now you see what I'm talking about. Ranting, degrading, and other outrageous behaviour done by passenger.


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## gmushial (Aug 28, 2013)

getbent said:


> We were on the CZ last week and the lounge car attendant has to repeatedly announce that the "Amtrak Slumber Party was over" and if you'd like to continue sleeping, please go back to your seat. That didn't stop people from sleeping there all day.


Almost sounds like the behavior varies per the crowd. I was on the CZ #5 (19th). Luck of the draw, or maybe just how the crew runs the show. I have nothing but good to say about the Chicago crew we had: friendly, useful, got stuff done, never MIA, and ran a tight ship (so it seems).


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## benjibear (Aug 28, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> mjaynes288 said:
> 
> 
> > I just had my worst Amtrak experience ever. I got on the CS at MTZ and went to the SSL. I could not sleep so I started a conversation with the guy in the booth across from me. He knew a lot about trains. A woman sleeping on one of the 3 combo seats tells us to keep it down. I tell her this is the car designated for conversations and if she wants quiet to go to another car. She grumbled and my conversation partner decided to leave.
> ...



I think you can say that about everywhere and everything.


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## gmushial (Aug 28, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> mjaynes288 said:
> 
> 
> > I just had my worst Amtrak experience ever. I got on the CS at MTZ and went to the SSL. I could not sleep so I started a conversation with the guy in the booth across from me. He knew a lot about trains. A woman sleeping on one of the 3 combo seats tells us to keep it down. I tell her this is the car designated for conversations and if she wants quiet to go to another car. She grumbled and my conversation partner decided to leave.
> ...


Maybe related to the time of the year, ie, during the summer one gets the "take Amtrak because it's cheaper crowd," but the rest of the year one finds more serious train people. That would more or less match what I saw in May on the CZ, vs this last week - the crowd in May was a delight; last week there were too many "bozos on this bus."


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## JayPea (Aug 28, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Peggy said:
> 
> 
> > Well crap.  I dunno how to label myself.
> ...


EX-ACT-LY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't for the life of me figure out why we have to label folks from either coaches OR sleepers. I realize most of the antagonism toward sleeper passengers is in response to a few misguided individuals who seem to think all coach riders are scum-sucking slimeballs, which to me is repugnant. Still, why label anyone anything? As for me, I travel both. I'm not going to pay for a sleeper from my "home" station, Spokane, when I'm only traveling to Portland, Seattle, or Glacier Park. On the other hand, I'm not going to ride in coach on a long-distance train, if I can help it. I had to one time when a long-distance trip on the CZ from Chicago to Sacramento was cancelled, and the only alternative was coach to Los Angeles on the SWC and bedroom to Sacramento (and eventually Seattle). I survived, and the experience really wasn't bad, but I prefer the privacy and comfort of a sleeper. And NOT because I'm some stuck-up hoity-toity. My sleeper trips are courtesy of AGR. Since I travel coach for day trips and sleeper on overnight (or several overnights) I guess that makes me a flip-flopper, hypocrite, or a syncophant.  I really think we ought to be able to travel on Amtrak in our preferred accomodations without the busybodies minding our business for us. :angry:

Oh, and as for the lounge issue: I, like Just-Thinking, don't really use the lounge car much. Not even the PPC on the Coast Starlight, really. I'm too antisocial for that. I prefer the solitude of my room in a sleeper, or my seat in coach, though make an exception for that in the diner, where I really enjoy getting to meet people from all walks of life and from other countries


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## henryj (Aug 28, 2013)

I always travel in a sleeper so I haven't encountered these types as by the time they drift to the lounge car I am asleep in my nice private room. As for the slumber coach people.........the superliners and viewliners roomettes are better than a slumber coach. They are actually upper and lower berths with a door instead of a curtain. The luxury accommodations are the bedrooms. If you want slumber coach prices then plan to share your roomette with a stranger as they do in Europe.


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## Peggy (Aug 28, 2013)

JayPea said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Peggy said:
> ...


Yep. Some of us are loners, or even shy maybe in some cases. I've traveled a zillion miles alone on 4 and 2 wheels, don't feel much different about on rails.

Plus I work retail and I've had about all of the public I can stand, I don't want to spend too much of my vacation with it!! 

The people who trash the bathrooms on trains are the same ones who trash my bookstore


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## roomette (Aug 28, 2013)

Braniff747SP said:


> Curiously, on the _Starlight_, I have seen people in sleeping bags sleeping in the arcade. Not a bad idea if you come prepared with a sleeping bad and mat.


Nice tip! Much larger than a roomette or bedroom and a much cheaper upgrade. $0.00!


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## Ryan (Aug 28, 2013)

henryj said:


> If you want slumber coach prices then plan to share your roomette with a stranger as they do in Europe.


Easier said than done...


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## rrdude (Aug 28, 2013)

Ryan said:


> henryj said:
> 
> 
> > If you want slumber coach prices then plan to share your roomette with a stranger as they do in Europe.
> ...


However, the "Ride-Sharing" thread, or maybe it was just a comment, makes sense. I logged on to the site, and plugged in all future trips I had booked on Amtrak, (Even the one that Davy Crockett was kind enough to share with me, hey, if I had to roll him under the bus, err, train, I would in a heartbeat, sorry Davy) and I got NO TAKERS.

Now, not a lot of people would be willing to share a bedroom, let alone a roomette, with strangers, but some would. After all, the only thing I do in the sleeper is, well, "sleep". Most (no, ALL, of my other time, I am taking up space as a charter member of the AU "SSL Lounge-Lizards-Club". (not applicable on Cardinal, LSL, Silvers, or ANY other LD route that doesn't have a "true" lounge)


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## SarahZ (Aug 28, 2013)

Braniff747SP said:


> Agreed that it'd be nice if Amtrak had cheaper sleeping accommodations (a la Europe, maybe, rooms being shared with four?).
> On the topic, *I can't see how sleeping in the SSL can be more comfortable than the coach seats*, but I'm not using the car at 2AM, so I could care less.
> 
> Curiously, on the _Starlight_, I have seen people in sleeping bags sleeping in the arcade. Not a bad idea if you come prepared with a sleeping bad and mat.


Some people (like me) can't sleep on their backs and/or can't sleep in a reclined position, so they sack out on the floor in the SSL (there's enough space between the seats and the windows if you sleep on your side like me) or hope to get one of the seats at the front of the row so they can sleep on the floor.

I've never slept in the SSL because I simply cannot fall asleep around strangers, but I can see how it would be tempting.


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## Ryan (Aug 28, 2013)

Hey, you look just like Sorcha!


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## roomette (Aug 29, 2013)




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## Phil S (Aug 29, 2013)

Back up a minute? Can we agree that leaving your belongings in a dome car for hours and hours w/o returning is unacceptable? This happened on CS a few months ago. I just pushed all the stuff onto the floor. We sat there for a while, Then I offered the spot to some other folks. I never did see the owners return far as I can tell. Should I have notified the crew?

As for sleepers, yes , I'm annoyed when I come into the dome car early ( say 7 AM) and there's no place to sit because of people sacked out in the chairs. Thoughts? .


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## eblkheart (Aug 29, 2013)

I was on the CZ 14-15 From Denver to Chicago. I saw this a lot and my seat mate was one of them. Once he got to his seat, he stashed his backpack away and said he was going to find a spot in the lounge. I thought it was just going to be for an hour or two. Little did I know that I didn't expect it all night. In the middle of the night and in the middle of Nebraska (which there wasn't much to see anyways), I walked into the lounge, he was passed out and 3/4 of the seats were taken from people passed out. I didn't expect to see any of that. I know when we departed Denver, an employee notified the conductor that there was someone that was going to do crash out in the lounge due to "some old ladies" that wouldn't give them the room to sit in his seat. She sighed and walked off. Not sure what happened but it sounded like this was a common occurrence. That being said, it kinda disturbed me that this was going on. I'm not sure what it was like on the way back earlier this week. I never had a seat mate due to the seat was having issues I was assigned so he let me have the other and made sure no one had the other seat. I never ventured to the the lounge since I didn't need to. Sidenote: Over all, the trips weren't bad. Had an issue with the handicap bathroom on the first part of the trip on how bad it was and notified the conductor. It was resolved rather quickly. Oh, I did get the comfy pack. I used the eye shade and brought my own ear plugs. Slept okay, but not great. My 2 cents. /side note.


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## VentureForth (Aug 29, 2013)

WellTrained said:


> Back up a minute? Can we agree that leaving your belongings in a dome car for hours and hours w/o returning is unacceptable? This happened on CS a few months ago. I just pushed all the stuff onto the floor. We sat there for a while, Then I offered the spot to some other folks. I never did see the owners return far as I can tell. Should I have notified the crew?
> As for sleepers, yes , I'm annoyed when I come into the dome car early ( say 7 AM) and there's no place to sit because of people sacked out in the chairs. Thoughts? .


 See Something, Say Something! It's on all the literature...


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## VentureForth (Aug 29, 2013)

The Comfort Pack should include Breath Rite Nasal Strips - maybe it would curb snoring.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 29, 2013)

rrdude said:


> However, the "Ride-Sharing" thread, or maybe it was just a comment, makes sense. I logged on to the site, and plugged in all future trips I had booked on Amtrak, (Even the one that Davy Crockett was kind enough to share with me, hey, if I had to roll him under the bus, err, train, I would in a heartbeat, sorry Davy) and I got NO TAKERS.


Now THAT'S going to make me sleep better.


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## Henry Kisor (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm envious of overnight coach passengers. I'm old and have a bad back and so must fork over big bucks for a sleeper room instead of enjoying a bargain coach seat or flaking out in the lounge car. You young and healthy guys and gals just don't know how good you've got it. :giggle:


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## SarahZ (Aug 29, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Hey, you look just like Sorcha!


h34r:

Decided to change my name so it doesn't get weird at the Gathering. I'm sure some people will call me Sorcha anyway, but I'd prefer to go by Sarah.  Otherwise, I might not acknowledge them (out of confusion).

"Sarah" was already taken.


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## calwatch (Aug 29, 2013)

The other place for crashing is the old lower level bar car, used for luggage stashing.


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## Meat Puppet (Aug 30, 2013)

Although they are highly elusive creatures I managed to capture a lounge lizard pic at LAUS in the early am. I think they were planning to take over starlight lounge later that day. Note that the seats have the triple wood barrier between seats to keep the lizards from using more than one seat.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 30, 2013)

That picture almost turns the large, spacious, well-furnished LAX lounge into a bus terminal! I try no to fall asleep at any station or airport in case I miss my departure.


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## SarahZ (Aug 30, 2013)

roomette said:


>


You know, my feelings on the subject aside, this picture makes me laugh every time I see it.

Well played.


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## Ryan (Aug 30, 2013)

Agreed.

I'm thinking that Amtrak promotional photos with funny captions would be a hell of a good thread.


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## tp49 (Aug 31, 2013)

Every time I see this thread pop up I totally expect to see a video of guys in sunglasses and maroon tuxedos crooning Sinatra songs or a picture of an album cover.

If only I had photoshop skills...or photoshop.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 31, 2013)

tp49 said:


> Every time I see this thread pop up I totally expect to see a video of guys in sunglasses and maroon tuxedos crooning Sinatra songs or a picture of an album cover.
> If only I had photoshop skills...or photoshop.


Frank Sinatra?! :giggle:


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## rainyday6 (Aug 31, 2013)

I'd sneak in there and gently roll them out of their little nests, like cow tipping. Fun activity for the kids, too.


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## SarahZ (Aug 31, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Agreed.
> I'm thinking that Amtrak promotional photos with funny captions would be a hell of a good thread.


Me too! /goes off in search of stock photos


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## Meat Puppet (Jun 4, 2014)

Lizards were way out of control last night on the SL from San Antonio to LAX. They started setting up shop with blankets and pillows about 9:30pm and every triple lounge seat was full. They had to resort to using the booths which is rare because lizards prefer the 3 seater over a booth. You can probably see the overcapacity of the lizards in the background of this pic.


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## seat38a (Jun 5, 2014)

IMG_0152 by seat38a, on Flickr

This is the picture I took of the lounge that I took the first day after breakfast on the Sunset Limited. We wondered into the lounge after eating breakfast in the dining car. If I took this same picture the next day, it would be EXACTLY the same with only a different scenery out the window (Expect the people on the right. They were from our sleeper). Once the seats were staked out, no one moved, and at night they were sprawled out on the the seats or the floor with sleeping bags and all.


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## seat38a (Jun 5, 2014)

Meat Puppet said:


> Although they are highly elusive creatures I managed to capture a lounge lizard pic at LAUS in the early am. I think they were planning to take over starlight lounge later that day. Note that the seats have the triple wood barrier between seats to keep the lizards from using more than one seat.


They actually started to crack down on the sleeping. Half the seats are for ticketed Amtrak passengers and the other half for Metrolink passengers with a time limit and security patrol. All the seating areas are now roped off with limited designated entrances.



P1000025 by seat38a, on Flickr


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