# Viewliner Diner



## rtabern (Jul 31, 2011)

A pretty reliable source of mine who works at Amtrak told me that the proto-type Viewliner Diner "Indianapolis" was finished on Friday... the last step being the set of curtains over the second set of windows... and is going to be making a run upto Chicago to show some Amtrak officials. This is supposed to take place SOMETIME this week... probably on Wednesday's Hoosier State or Cardinal. Keep an eye out if you live along the route -- I hope someone can snag some photos! :blink: I guess the official announcement is supposed to come from Washington about the diner being done next week -- so AMTK is going to try and keep this move somewhat hush-hush and make sure the car isn't open to the public... it will just be deadheading on the "hospital train".


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## Ryan (Jul 31, 2011)

Awesome! Can't wait for a ride in it!

I'm also glad to see that they're naming it, hopefully this trend will continue.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 31, 2011)

And it's going on the Cardinal to replace the Diner Lite right??


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## rtabern (Jul 31, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> And it's going on the Cardinal to replace the Diner Lite right??


My best guess is that they will first replace the Heritage Diners on the Lake Shore Limited, Crescent, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, etc. first... and then if there are enough around replace the Diner-lite on the Cardinal. I think the urgency is the fact Amtrak is still running 1940's and 1950's diners on most of the east coast trains. As much as I love them and feel like bad they're going, I guess they need to be replaced.


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## Acela150 (Jul 31, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> And it's going on the Cardinal to replace the Diner Lite right??


We can only hope! :giggle: It's good to see a diner being released!


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 1, 2011)

rtabern said:


> As much as I love them and feel like bad they're going, I guess they need to be replaced.


I can see it now, they will end up in Canada where VIA will rehab them and keep them in well-maintained condition... and they will prove reliable for another 60+ years. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## RCrierie (Aug 1, 2011)

Supposedly according to railroad.net (http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=66784&start=90)

The Lake Shore Limited 48/49 will get it.


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## AlanB (Aug 1, 2011)

The original plans from way back were that the LSL would get the prototype.


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## Donctor (Aug 1, 2011)

AlanB said:


> The original plans from way back were that the LSL would get the prototype.


Isn't the LSL also supposed to get the first cars of the new order? Or am I misremembering?


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## jis (Aug 1, 2011)

Donctor said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The original plans from way back were that the LSL would get the prototype.
> ...


Yes. So we were told by the Amtrak spokesperson at the ESPA annual meeting in Schenectady earlier this year.


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## abcnews (Aug 1, 2011)

One more reason to get out and ride those Eastern single level trains - I love the Heritage dinners, and I really hate to see them go. A bit of a vintage moment when you have a meal in one of those classic dinners. However, the Viewliner sleepers seems so nice, I can't wait to see the new Viewliner diner.

How soon until they will have one or two in operation?

**Also - are they going to have a new Viewliner (Sightseer style ) Lounge?


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## Ryan (Aug 1, 2011)

Hopefully one day, but no plans for that at the present time. The order for new Viewliners consists of sleepers, diners, bag/dorms and bags.


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## abcnews (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks to all for the info - good stuff to know...


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## had8ley (Aug 1, 2011)

Maybe, just maybe, they'll shuffle the LSL's diner to the Cardinal in the interim while they wait on a Viewliner...


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## AlanB (Aug 1, 2011)

had8ley said:


> Maybe, just maybe, they'll shuffle the LSL's diner to the Cardinal in the interim while they wait on a Viewliner...


That won't happen!

Amtrak can't afford to put a diner on the Cardinal until the new Viewliner dorm/bags are online. Putting a full diner on the Card would mean that available roomettes would drop from the current 8 down by at least another 1 or 2. Little point of putting on a diner for only 6 roomettes & 2 bedrooms.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 1, 2011)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe, just maybe, they'll shuffle the LSL's diner to the Cardinal in the interim while they wait on a Viewliner...
> ...


Because of staff???


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## abcnews (Aug 1, 2011)

I guess once they have 3 diners available - and 3 new baggage/dorm cars, then the Cardinal would be likely to see an upgrade. And the addition of the baggage dorms would free up several Roomettes, making it a more profitable train to operate, and that, perhaps combined with an extra coach car, could help to cut the losses associated with the current Cardinal.

When will they have the first few baggage dorm cars?


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## AlanB (Aug 1, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> AlanB said:
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> 
> > had8ley said:
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One single level dining car can easily handle two full sleepers and when fully staffed, 3 sleepers. Putting on a full dining car to handle 6 roomettes, 2 bedrooms, and 1 H-room is a waste of a dining car. And it's a costly expense for Amtrak that won't pay dividends via other ways.

Until Amtrak can get the crew out of the regular sleeper, and potentially have at least 30 patrons for the diner, there is no point in wasting a diner on the Card when they're in short supply to begin with. They need a spare more than the Card needs a diner to serve potentially 18 people.

I know that sounds harsh, but economics do have to intrude at least a bit into these decisions. Sometimes Amtrak goes too far, but this is not one of those cases. Besides, the Card would need 2 diners and Amtrak is only adding one dining car with the release of the proto-type.

Once all the new Viewliner II's are in service, then we can talk about and hope for a real diner on the Card; but not now.


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## AlanB (Aug 1, 2011)

abcnews said:


> I guess once they have 3 diners available - and 3 new baggage/dorm cars, then the Cardinal would be likely to see an upgrade. And the addition of the baggage dorms would free up several Roomettes, making it a more profitable train to operate, and that, perhaps combined with an extra coach car, could help to cut the losses associated with the current Cardinal.


Very unlikely. I'd expect and hope that they'll wait until most of the new cars are delivered before they'll think about changes to the Card. In fact, I'm hoping that they can find the money to first blitz all of the Viewliner I cars with a major overhaul as the new cars come online, before looking at any new services or changes to the existing services.



abcnews said:


> When will they have the first few baggage dorm cars?


I've not see any delivery timetables yet. The first new cars are expected at the end of next year, but no word on what types of cars might be the first to roll out. It wouldn't however surprise me to see baggage cars first, since they require the least amount of interior work.


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## had8ley (Aug 1, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Rail Freak said:
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> 
> > AlanB said:
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But we're not taking into account the coach pax who may want to eat in the diner plus the OBS has to eat also (yes, I know, they already do.)Right now I wouldn't buy a tix based on the horror stories of packed premises for meal periods and lack of decent menu items for lack of a grill.If I want steam table I'll go to a Chinese buffet... :lol:


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## eagle628 (Aug 1, 2011)

had8ley said:


> But we're not taking into account the coach pax who may want to eat in the diner plus the OBS has to eat also (yes, I know, they already do.)Right now I wouldn't buy a tix based on the horror stories of packed premises for meal periods and lack of decent menu items for lack of a grill.If I want steam table I'll go to a Chinese buffet... :lol:



Yes, well, on the Cardinal you have three coaches/one sleeper worth of people and on the Lake Shore Limited you have five or six (I think) coaches and three (maybe four?) sleepers. Shouldn't priority be given to the train that has more demand, on the basis that for the same amount of money you can serve more people by focusing on the LSL?


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## jis (Aug 1, 2011)

had8ley said:


> But we're not taking into account the coach pax who may want to eat in the diner plus the OBS has to eat also (yes, I know, they already do.)Right now I wouldn't buy a tix based on the horror stories of packed premises for meal periods and lack of decent menu items for lack of a grill.If I want steam table I'll go to a Chinese buffet... :lol:


OTOH since they appear to be selling all seats and rooms on that train at relatively high prices, it probably does not matter a hill of beans what you'll do   . Incidentally, the dinner on the Cardinal has never been bad each time I traveled. The Salmon dish was pretty good the last time. Could it be better? of course! Is it unacceptably horrible? I don't think so.

LSL is one of the most heavily patronized single level trains and rightfully it should get attention first.


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## NE933 (Aug 1, 2011)

Luv this news!!

Now, some mention of the Viewliner I sleeper overhauls, namely those with the slightly lowered stripes on the outside, plus the removal of the individual 'view' names. While occupying these cars three months ago, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference. In fact, alot of the issues plaguing Viewliners (need to jam towels to keep doors from vibrating, use of duct tape, and shower doors requiring velcro to close) were still present. Can anyone elaborate why these overhauls weren't so good?


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## had8ley (Aug 1, 2011)

jis said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > But we're not taking into account the coach pax who may want to eat in the diner plus the OBS has to eat also (yes, I know, they already do.)Right now I wouldn't buy a tix based on the horror stories of packed premises for meal periods and lack of decent menu items for lack of a grill.If I want steam table I'll go to a Chinese buffet... :lol:
> ...


Jis...I think everybody is missing my point. If the LSL gets the new Viewliner diners all I propose is for the Cardinal to get the hand me down Heritage diners.


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## NY Penn (Aug 1, 2011)

had8ley said:


> jis said:
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> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


That's still a waste for the Cardinal.

I like the new Viewdiners. :lol:


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## afigg (Aug 1, 2011)

had8ley said:


> Jis...I think everybody is missing my point. If the LSL gets the new Viewliner diners all I propose is for the Cardinal to get the hand me down Heritage diners.


Maybe on an interim basis, if the plans are to put Viewliner diners on an expanded Cardinal once all 25 diners have been delivered. But Amtrak has indicated that they don't plan to keep the Heritage equipment in service once the Viewliner IIs have been delivered. A major goal is to reduce maintenance costs, not only with new equipment, but a single car type for the baggage, single level baggage dorms, diners, and sleepers. Fewer different spare parts to stock.

I would expect the Heritage baggage and diner cars that are in better condition will go into reserve storage. But the rest will probably be put up for sale or sold for scrap after a time. Don't know how much interest there would be from private buyers in buying seriously high mileage diner cars.


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## Donctor (Aug 1, 2011)

NE933 said:


> Luv this news!!
> 
> Now, some mention of the Viewliner I sleeper overhauls, namely those with the slightly lowered stripes on the outside, plus the removal of the individual 'view' names. While occupying these cars three months ago, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference. In fact, alot of the issues plaguing Viewliners (need to jam towels to keep doors from vibrating, use of duct tape, and shower doors requiring velcro to close) were still present. Can anyone elaborate why these overhauls weren't so good?


Doesn't sound like they were actual overhauls. That could be the reason.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 1, 2011)

Donctor said:


> NE933 said:
> 
> 
> > Luv this news!!
> ...



Even the refurbished Superliner 1 sleeper I was in had duct tape keeping the door closed in the bedroom.

The Viewliner's design doesn't really allow for an overhaul at the moment. I don't think they will ever look as nice as the S1 Sleepers because of their design.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 1, 2011)

afigg said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Jis...I think everybody is missing my point. If the LSL gets the new Viewliner diners all I propose is for the Cardinal to get the hand me down Heritage diners.
> ...


Bet that's what suits @ Amtrak said when VIA bought the Heritage equipment that they are rehabing and still running on the Canadian and Ocean Trains! The poor Card really does need a good Diner AND Decent Cafe/lounge car! :excl: :excl: :excl: Considering the Route, the length of the trip, the Pax Numbers and the High Bucket Prices that's not too much to ask! The OBS do the best they can with Food Service, as jis said it's OK, but the Cafe/Lounge Car sucks big time! :angry: Move the Dome out of California full time, does anyone know why it's only sent back East in the Fall during Leaf Peeper Season??? :wacko:


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## abcnews (Aug 1, 2011)

The Cardinal really should have a dome - I've heard that Amtrak could buy an older one at a very low price on the used market. Then the other issues are not so bad. Riders could hang out in the dome and just leave the Cafe car alone. Then a loaded Cardinal would not feel so packed. Once the Viewliner ll cars arrive, just sell the dome. Just a nice short term fix.

They only need to buy one - or lease it. They have the other dome in CA. Two domes - done!


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## jis (Aug 1, 2011)

IMHO, the Cardinal will be lucky not to get chopped in the obvious upcoming budget shenanigans.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 2, 2011)

jis said:


> IMHO, the Cardinal will be lucky not to get chopped in the obvious upcoming budget shenanigans.


Agreed. That is why I booked a trip on it in October. I only hope it is still running then!


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## NE933 (Aug 2, 2011)

cpamtfan said:


> The Viewliner's design doesn't really allow for an overhaul at the moment.


Now what does that mean exactly? That its design won't allow for overhauls? Do you mean that it's difficult to overhaul them because of some characteristic unique or inherent in Viewliners? Then that would have to be the modular stuff because that's the only thing i know of that set's them apart. But that would'nt make sense because the modular rooms were cited up down east and west as making maintenance, and it follows: overhauls (which is a form of maintenance), easy and quick. Slide out the worn components, slide in better ones. Please articulate what you mean in a narrative.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 2, 2011)

NE933 said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > The Viewliner's design doesn't really allow for an overhaul at the moment.
> ...


I'm not sure what was done to it but I was on #20 out of NOL 7/29 and I noticed the Viewliner next to mine - 62034 "Seaview" was a TIGER car. I looked at it superficially and it seemed like it had been 'spruced up' but, at the same time did not seem like a complete overhaul.


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## jis (Aug 2, 2011)

Viewliners are not quite old enough to really require a full overhaul yet.


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## AlanB (Aug 2, 2011)

NE933 said:


> cpamtfan said:
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> 
> > The Viewliner's design doesn't really allow for an overhaul at the moment.
> ...


And that is exactly what many of us hope for and I believe has at least been talked about by Amtrak. That is, trying to find enough money to buy enough modules not only for the new cars, but also for the old Viewliner I sleepers. Then you send them to Beech Grove a few at a time and while one crew slides out the old rooms and replaces them with the new rooms, another crew can tune up the AC units and other undercarriage support stuff.

Not sure that will actually happen, but it would be a great way to refurbish and prolong the life of the current Viewliner sleepers. And the refurb of one car could probably be done in a month of less as opposed to the more than 3 months per car spent on the Superlner I's.


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## Ryan (Aug 2, 2011)

jis said:


> IMHO, the Cardinal will be lucky not to get chopped in the obvious upcoming budget shenanigans.


I doubt it - they're going to need to make big number changes, and Amtrak just isn't a big enough budget driver to waste the time one (I hope, at least).

In that line of thought, how much money has the Fed pissed away by not collecting taxes through the FAA during that mess, and how does it compare to Amtrak's budget? Reason being, if that small amount of money can't even motivate them to find the time and get that passed, then Amtrak's budget should be equally invisible. (again, I hope)


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## afigg (Aug 2, 2011)

Ryan said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, the Cardinal will be lucky not to get chopped in the obvious upcoming budget shenanigans.
> ...


No, Amtrak and HSR is definitely in the cross hairs of a number of tea party activists who hate public transit and direct government subsidies for transportation. While, of course, blithely ignoring the huge subsidies - direct, indirect, and hidden - at the federal, state, and local level for roads, highways, air travel, and oil. The question is how much of a fight will the more mainstream House Republicans, House members from districts with Amtrak service, Senate Democrats, and the Obama put up for Amtrak, passenger rail, HSR, and transit. They will put up a fight, but how it will play out is anyone's guess.

I hope Amtrak can keep all the LD trains running for the next 2 years until after the 2012 elections. In the long run, I think we will see a major resurgence in passenger rail - corridor, HSR, and LD - as oil prices climb & oil availability drops forcing people to use more energy efficiency travel. The more I look at the world's oil production and reserve amount trends, the more I become convinced that the next 10-20 years will be a lot bumpier on a national and global scale than the last 20 as we exit the long era of cheap oil. But this is getting way OT from the Viewliner Diner. :lol:

Oops, left out that according to news articles, the FAA is losing about $200 million a week in taxes during the shutdown due the loss of the authority to charge ticket taxes to cover FAA programs and projects.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 2, 2011)

Ryan said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, the Cardinal will be lucky not to get chopped in the obvious upcoming budget shenanigans.
> ...


I do hope you are right, but when did logic and reason ever have much sway over politicians when there are perceived 'points' to be made? And judging from some of the rhetoric in the last while, there are those who seem to think Amtrak makes an easy target.


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## eagle628 (Aug 2, 2011)

The Davy Crockett said:


> And judging from some of the rhetoric in the last while, there are those who seem to think Amtrak makes an easy target.



It is an easy target. Not by any means the best target, not even close to it, but Amtrak and other little things are easy targets for politicians to cut funding for and say "look, we're doing something" because honestly, fewer people care about the little things than the big ones. Eliminating Amtrak (or on the other hand, EAS) completely would be far easier than trying to get through meaningful cuts to defense/medicare/social security budgets.


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## AlanB (Aug 2, 2011)

eagle628 said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > And judging from some of the rhetoric in the last while, there are those who seem to think Amtrak makes an easy target.
> ...


While it is an easy target, it is also a useless target. With the contraints set by the bill passed today, cutting Amtrak funding is like pouring a cup of water on the island of Manhattan trying to put out a fire engulfing the entire island of Manhattan.

It does nothing to help meet the goals that have to be met.


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## jis (Aug 3, 2011)

It is indeed rationally a useless target, but when the objection is more religious than rational the only way to deal with is political in nature, that is ideally to have a champion to protect it. Unfortunately the very fact that it is insignificant also makes it a danger since in the bigger scheme of things when push comes to shove it might fall through the cracks. And that is where we as indivudals come in. Make sure to keep writing to you Senators, your Congressman and the President pointing out that Amtrak needs to be funded at full level perhaps with some equitable across the board reduction so as to contribute to the deficit reduction. But it should not be allowed to be singled out for extraordinary cuts.


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## had8ley (Aug 3, 2011)

AlanB said:


> eagle628 said:
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> 
> > The Davy Crockett said:
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Yes, but to Mr. Micah he will try to make it look like New year's Eve in Times Square and has said so many times. His latest is a list of small airports that are federally subsidized~ eack pax tix costs over $3,000...and he worries about land cruises where the worse, IIRC, is the Sunset which runs at a $400 loss per pax.


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## MattW (Aug 3, 2011)

Spotted at Chicago Union station today!!!

Video is not mine.

 (12 minute video, Hoosier State? with 8400 appears at 5:54)


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## Acela150 (Aug 3, 2011)

MattW said:


> Spotted at Chicago Union station today!!!
> 
> Video is not mine.



Darn you beat me too it! :lol: I love the Phase III baggage car!


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## The Journalist (Aug 4, 2011)

Random question: What's the train at the beginning in push mode with three Superliners and nothing else?

Am I the only one who thinks that the Viewdiner looks better in this paint scheme than anything else does, or is it just newly painted and shiny?


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## Acela150 (Aug 4, 2011)

The Journalist said:


> Random question: What's the train at the beginning in push mode with three Superliners and nothing else?
> 
> *Most likely the Pere Marquette *
> 
> ...


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 4, 2011)

MattW said:


> Spotted at Chicago Union station today!!!
> 
> Video is not mine.
> 
> (12 minute video, Hoosier State? with 8400 appears at 5:54)


IMHO, the Viewliner diner would like better adjacent to some Viewliner sleepers. :giggle:


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## Shanghai (Aug 4, 2011)

I was surprized to see the upper windows on the Indianapolis car.

It looks like a sleeper. Do current Viewliner Diners have upper windows?


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## Ryan (Aug 4, 2011)

That's the only Viewliner Diner in the world. (So "yes" I think is the correct answer)


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## abcnews (Aug 4, 2011)

It looked at first glance like a Superliner, and it reminded me more of a Superliner than an Eastern Viewliner car.

With the added ceiling height, and the second set of windows - it will give patrons and especially first time riders a more upscale, "Atrium" feeling about the dining car.

Could you imagine if they had one of these on about every train in the east that travelled over 6 or 7 hours All the Boston to DC trains, the Adirondack, Palmetto, Carolinian, Pennsy, Cardinal, etc... You could eat a slow lunch or dinner - order a 2nd glass of wine and really enjoy the ride - especially on an Amfleet l train.

Just wishful thinking...


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## Ryan (Aug 4, 2011)

Not really, the VLII order contains diners just like this one, so all of the trains that have Heritage diners will eventually have VLII diners.


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## SCrails (Aug 4, 2011)

Can someone post a photo or screen shot? I'm blocked from viewing video during the day...also blocked from flickr, so an embedded pic would be nice!


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 4, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Not really, the VLII order contains diners just like this one, so all of the trains that have Heritage diners will eventually have VLII diners.


Is that order still fully a "go" ???


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## jis (Aug 4, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Not really, the VLII order contains diners just like this one, so all of the trains that have Heritage diners will eventually have VLII diners.
> ...


Yes. It is funded by an RRIF loan AFAIR.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 4, 2011)

Sweet! Car looks great!

BTW the Phase 3 car between the Horizon Coach and Superliner Diner was a buffer coach, formerly a baggage car.


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## jis (Aug 4, 2011)

Amtrak appears to have a slight shortage of serviceable Baggage cars at present. One of the consists of 66/67 is running around sans Baggage car. Checked baggage is getting piled into a corner of the Cafe car.

Yesterday 67 was a five car train, four Coaches and one Cafe+BC. It was pulled by a pair of P42s from Boston to New Haven and then by an AEM-7 (909) from thence to Washington DC. It is amazing how much more quickly the train accelerated behind the AEM-7 even though in sheer amount of HP the pair of P42s had more. But still they did stick to 105 to 110mph with the diesels on the faster segments of track. Since there was no baggage car in the consist, the AEM-7 made quite a dash at 125 mph between Linden and Iselin and swept into Metropark 3 mins or so ahead of schedule.

BTW, I also got living proof of how Amtrak Status does not always have the actual time of arrival reported in it. 67 actually arrived into NYP at 2am. I looked up Amtrak Status on that train at 2:09 am, when it reported that the train has arrived at 2:15 am!!! Go figure! Looks like they designate a single platform for 66 and 67. It happened to be tracks 7 and 8 yesterday. That way they just have to guard one platform from the incursion of riff-raffs instead of two.

It would be sweet if this train were to regain a Viewliner Sleeper upon the completion of delivery of Viewliner II Sleepers.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 4, 2011)

As usual jis provides accurate, on the scene, info!Thanks! (maybe Fox News needs to hire you! :lol: )Wonder if the pax complain about luggage being in the cafe car? Also, if theres too much, since only #66/#67 have checked baggage on the Regionals, wonder if it would be delayed in some instances and not show up till the next day/night or even put on Acelas or other Regionals on an emergency basis???? :unsure:

As to the OTP being off on the computer, could this be like the recorded announcements in BWI etc. where they say "Train #____ now arriving on track #___" and it hasnt even left WAS or WIL yet?? :lol: Dave and I experienced this alot in BAL and BWI during our "layovers' during the NTD weekend waiting on Late Regionals??? :help:


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## had8ley (Aug 4, 2011)

jis said:


> Yesterday 67 was a five car train, four Coaches and one Cafe+BC. It was pulled by a pair of P42s from Boston to New Haven and then by an AEM-7 (909) from thence to Washington DC. It is amazing how much more quickly the train accelerated behind the AEM-7 even though in sheer amount of HP the pair of P42s had more. But still they did stick to 105 to 110mph with the diesels on the faster segments of track. Since there was no baggage car in the consist, the ARM-7 made quite a dash at 125 mph between Linden and Iselin and swept into Metropark 3 mins or so ahead of schedule.
> 
> It would be sweet if this train were to regain a Viewliner Sleeper upon the completion of delivery of Viewliner II Sleepers.


GE's have NEVER been known for their acceleration....if anything their claim to fame is spending more shop time than most other locomotives. I still contend that there has to be F-40's floating around Amtrak back tracks without prime movers. All you need is the traction motors and add/re-furbish a HEP power plant and you'll have four more axles for acceleration~ no need for mega-million grants/loans/begging and people on one unit trains (yeah Jim that's you and me :help: ) won't die of heat exhaustion in the middle of bum diddely.


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## Ryan (Aug 4, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> As to the OTP being off on the computer, could this be like the recorded announcements in BWI etc. where they say "Train #____ now arriving on track #___" and it hasnt even left WAS or WIL yet?? :lol: Dave and I experienced this alot in BAL and BWI during our "layovers' during the NTD weekend waiting on Late Regionals??? :help:


That must have been a brief experiment, as I've never heard an automated announcement at BWI before.


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## afigg (Aug 4, 2011)

jis said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


The recent $592 million RRIF loan grant to Amtrak was only for the 70 ACS-64 locomotives. The Viewliner II order is less expensive at $298 million. I thought it was stated that Amtrak covered the first year out of revenue and was prepared to do so for the 2011 payments. I suspect Amtrak will end up taking out a billion or two in RRIF loans in the next few years to pay for equipment purchases while waiting for friendlier times in Congress.


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## Train2104 (Aug 4, 2011)

The Journalist said:


> Random question: What's the train at the beginning in push mode with three Superliners and nothing else?
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that the Viewdiner looks better in this paint scheme than anything else does, or is it just newly painted and shiny?


Since when are Superliners being used on Midwest corridor routes? I thought the consist of those trains was NPCU, 1 amfleet, Horizons, and a P42.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 4, 2011)

jis said:


> ...BTW, I also got living proof of how Amtrak Status does not always have the actual time of arrival reported in it. 67 actually arrived into NYP at 2am. I looked up Amtrak Status on that train at 2:09 am, when it reported that the train has arrived at 2:15 am!!! Go figure! Looks like they designate a single platform for 66 and 67. It happened to be tracks 7 and 8 yesterday. That way they just have to guard one platform from the incursion of riff-raffs instead of two.
> 
> It would be sweet if this train were to regain a Viewliner Sleeper upon the completion of delivery of Viewliner II Sleepers.


They must have corrected the NYP arrival for 67(04) in Arrow. It is now reported as 1:59am.

From Amtrak Status Maps achieves:


```
* Train 67 of 08/03/2011.
*
* +---------------- Station code
* |    +----------- Schedule Arrival Day  
* |    |  +-------- Schedule Arrival time
* |    |  |     +----- Schedule Departure Day
* |    |  |     |  +-- Schedule Departure Time 
* |    |  |     |  |     +------------- Actual Arrival Time
* |    |  |     |  |     |     +------- Actual Departure Time
* |    |  |     |  |     |     |     +- Comments
* V    V  V     V  V     V     V     V
* NYP  2  220A  2  300A  159A  300A  Departed:  on time.
```


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## Donctor (Aug 4, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> Wonder if the pax complain about luggage being in the cafe car? Also, if theres too much, since only #66/#67 have checked baggage on the Regionals, wonder if it would be delayed in some instances and not show up till the next day/night or even put on Acelas or other Regionals on an emergency basis???? :unsure:


You have to do what you have to do. I've seen an Amfleet I coach used as a baggage car on the Crescent before.

I imagine most of the baggage would fit in that part of the café. Between WAS and NYP, oversized stuff (such as large express shipments) would maybe go on LDs, though I don't know if this stuff typically gets sent between those two points on the overnight run to begin with.

When I enquired at 30th Street as to what would happen in such an instance for larger stuff to/from BOS, I was told that it have to be held for the next day's train.


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## NE933 (Aug 4, 2011)

_Kicked Around Gem of the Rails May Resurrect Once More_, by Robert J. Evans Jr.

Reported from signal outlet L-R Head Trans Assoc.

Christened the 'Viewliner Diner Indianapolis', it started life as a bold experiment to lure and keep travelers riding the resurgence of Amtrak, circa 1987. A rail renessance had already begun after a sympathetic Congress gave the railroad what it needed: massive infusions of capital funding over a ten year period that would ultimately see over a thousand new railcars and 400 locomotives in electric and diesel versions to power them. Bad tracks were torn out and replaced with welded ribbon rail, on concrete ties reinforced with steel rods. The public took notice of the bilevel Superliners, high speed Metroliners, and the tubular Amfleet cars of many varieties. And since the U.S. had just come out of a oil crisis, the observing souls were legion. America really was getting back into training, and helping this noble purpose were advertising campaigns that made you remember. Catchy, whimsical, and daring. Who can forget the airplane hanger man guiding the pilot, or so we thought. This was no plane; instead, a brand new train emerges, full of comfort, power, homeliness, and unlike anything anyone had seen before.

Older 'Heritage' cars were stripped down and given new life as Diners, Sleepers, Lounges, and Coach too. But there came a time when Amtrak knew this fleet will one day simply be to worn to keep fixing. A committee team designed, then built, three next generation Viewliners. The two sleepers and one diner were to be tested extensively and provide experience for refining the details for a three hundred plus, car purchase. But it was too late: Washington leadership had grown either apethetic or downright hostile, and the Viewliner project, as many call it, stopped in its tracks. Sure, a severely curtailed fleet of a mere 50 sleepers eventually got through, but it unsuprisingly was inadequate to handle the patronage the old Heritage fleet used to, and so the dark ages began. The three test vehicles eventually got parked on yard tracks out of everyone's way and forgetten about. Those who didn't forget were flagellated for dreaming.

And then the right forces congealled, rescued the lone Viewliner Diner, and took it for a stroll to the wizards and magicians of Beech Grove. Badly designed components and error prone construction meant that everything had to go, except for the shell. The stainless steel hulk and chassis remained, looking as if had emerged from the Pullman plant of old. Hard work, genious, and yes, perhaps a sorcery of some kind, namely of the care and passion that comes when a team of minds come together to pull off the impossible. A shell that sat in some way or form, for 25 years waiting for a large fleet of new railcars that would keep the renessance building, a fleet never to be built. It was and still is the only Viewliner Diner in the world. But when Amtrak released No. 8400 on 8/4, August 4th, it was a truer first entry than the 1987 one. Not in sixty years has a new full service restaurant style Dining Car for the East Coast been born. Still a prototype, but a now a real one, since it shall herald the first Dining Car fleet since the days of The 20th Century Limited. The few that have seen the interior call it "spectacular", with the second row of top windows matching their Sleeper brethren, and giving the interior an aura that will rival and amaze the expectations. Improvements in the kitchen galley, to give chefs, food handlers, and attendants space and acoutrements with more touhgtful planning than before. How it will actually come together will be revealed very shortly, as word goes around the Eastbound Lake Shore Limited to New York will be testing grounds for this Cadillac on rails, followed by the Florida trains and the New Orleans bound Crescent.

A shop employee choosing to be anonymous blithely states of the foolhardyness that has been at DC for too long, referring to the mandates to drop the food and sleeper servies, "People need to eat. If they travel overnight or even across two zones, that's two full days. What are they supposed to do, bring on cans of tuna fish? This is how it should be. I think once the 8400 gets around and the people see it, they'll talk to their travel agents, their church groups, friends." This employee believes if Amtrak proactively markets this well, and doesn't mess up with customer service, namely the few staff who are rude, or deaf by choice, such as when you ask for a glass of water 20 minutes ago and still don't have it, it can be parlayed into a fresh new draw that travelers will respond to. "Run the staff though the Acela program, changing it a little to match the long distance nature of the train as opposed to high speed corridor. The discipline was fantastic, and everyone was happy, as long as you know you're doing it for a common good and everyone cares to help out.", he says.

God willing, this version of Indianapolis will roll across the country and greet many towns, welcome throngs of travelers desiring to be reunited, or maybe to vacation somewhere they've never been. Business travel? Why not! An executive on the Silver Star on his way to the Carolinas can fit in very comfortably, winding down on one of the Amfleet II coaches, watching one of her movies, answering some emails. And then it's dinner time. What a surprise that it's not the cafe microwave cuisine long the chant for Amtrak to change. Not this time. Now, he or she learns of a full restaurant on board, and after walking in, becomes a kid again for a few minutes. An attendant welcomes this visitor in, totally woo-ed by the spaciousness, and the choice of fresh food. On actual dishes. Conversations with strangers, or friends. Perhaps the folks at Beech Grove can rightfully claim their Noble Peace Prize.

NE933


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## rrdude (Aug 5, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> The Journalist said:
> 
> 
> > Random question: What's the train at the beginning in push mode with three Superliners and nothing else?
> ...


Since pretty much forever, I last worked for Amtrak right after the Superliners were new, and ran them to Carbondale, and on the Michigan Service. Back then they were usually used in emergency use, and as an LSA, they gave us coolers, and a board to act as a counter, and we set up in the lower level, in the coach area to serve from..........


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 5, 2011)

Use of Superliners on the Michigan trains during the winter is pretty much standard operating procedure, since the Horizon cars have an adversity to snow and cold! Looks like the Superliners now run year-round on the Pere Marquette.


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## MiRider (Aug 12, 2011)

RCrierie said:


> Supposedly according to railroad.net (http://www.railroad....=66784&start=90)
> 
> The Lake Shore Limited 48/49 will get it.


Did the LSL get it?

Has anyone been on it?

I'm excited because I finally talked my husband into a trip from CHI-NYP and we're going next month.

He's a little high maintenance :giggle: and I want him to have the best time so that we can do this together on a regular basis.


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## jis (Aug 12, 2011)

Even if the LSL gets it you will at best have a one in three chances of atually being on an LSL that has the Viewliner Diner on it.


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## MiRider (Aug 12, 2011)

jis said:


> Even if the LSL gets it you will at best have a one in three chances of atually being on an LSL that has the Viewliner Diner on it.


Thanks, jis... I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Hopefully we'll have a diner that works and no bustitution.


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## Trogdor (Aug 13, 2011)

It's supposed to go into service next month.


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