# Sleeper Car Attendent Tips



## jmbgeg (Nov 17, 2008)

I have been traveling by train for several years but do not yet have a good sense of what fair sleeper car attendent tips are. My most frequent trips are overnights from Spokane that leave at 2:15 and 2:45 a.m. and arrive in Seattle or Portland about 10:00 a.m. with return legs leaving about 4:45 p.m. returning after midnight. On these trips the attendent's service that I utilize is often limited to putting the bed down and back up. Next month I will travel again on the Empire Builder Eastbond which is about a 35 hour trip on a single train. A comparable travel time train that I take is Portland to L.A. on the Coast Starlight. My tipping to date has generally been $10 to $20 flat (never $10 on the long trips). I am interested in comments on what prevailing tip ranges are for 8 hour overnights and for longer trips like trains like 7 & 8 and 11 & 14.


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## NativeSon5859 (Nov 17, 2008)

Generally, if I'm traveling alone, I'll tip $5 per night. If the service was excellent, I'll do a few $$$ more. Just use your judgement. I have been traveling NOL-ATL-NOL mostly these days and while not overnight, it's still basically a 12 hour ride in each direction, so I usually tip $5 at the end of the ride as a courtesy.


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## Montanan (Nov 17, 2008)

There are several threads on this topic already, I think ...

And opinions vary, but I personally tip between $5 and $10 a night, depending on the level of service. If an attendant is basically invisible for much of the trip -- which seems to happen fairly often -- I have no qualms about not tipping at all.


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## jmbgeg (Nov 17, 2008)

Montanan said:


> There are several threads on this topic already, I think ...
> And opinions vary, but I personally tip between $5 and $10 a night, depending on the level of service. If an attendant is basically invisible for much of the trip -- which seems to happen fairly often -- I have no qualms about not tipping at all.


I should have thought of the search function. Thanks for your feedback.


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## Tony (Nov 17, 2008)

I will tip $5 if the attendant does nothing at all, and that is basically for cleaning the room and supplying it with clean towels, sheets, etc. I guess if not even that was true (the cubby had an inch of dust/dirt in it?  ), I would tip nothing, but that has never happened to me.

I go to the dining car for all my meals, so there is no personal delivery. I put down the upper bunk myself, so there is no personal service.


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## AlanB (Nov 17, 2008)

Tony said:


> I will tip $5 if the attendant does nothing at all, and that is basically for cleaning the room and supplying it with clean towels, sheets, etc. I guess if not even that was true (the cubby had an inch of dust/dirt in it?  ), I would tip nothing, but that has never happened to me.


Except that it's not the attendant’s job to seriously clean your room, that honor belongs to the cleaning crew in the yard or station. The attendant's job is to provide clean towels and washcloths, soap, sheets, blankets, & pillows, coffee, juice, water, newspaper, wake up calls, freshening up the public restrooms, a light cleaning if the room is turning over during the trip, meals delivered when requested, ensure that you get off at your destination, and your general safety.

Now that's not to say that when the attendant boards the train in the yard that if he/she sees a mess on the floor of your room that they shouldn't request a last minute cleaning, or try to do their best to remedy the situation if there is no time for a cleaning person. But otherwise they are not responsible for actually cleaning the room thoroughly.


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## AAARGH! (Nov 17, 2008)

jmbgeg said:


> I have been traveling by train for several years but do not yet have a good sense of what fair sleeper car attendent tips are. My most frequent trips are overnights from Spokane that leave at 2:15 and 2:45 a.m. and arrive in Seattle or Portland about 10:00 a.m. with return legs leaving about 4:45 p.m. returning after midnight. On these trips the attendent's service that I utilize is often limited to putting the bed down and back up. Next month I will travel again on the Empire Builder Eastbond which is about a 35 hour trip on a single train. A comparable travel time train that I take is Portland to L.A. on the Coast Starlight. My tipping to date has generally been $10 to $20 flat (never $10 on the long trips). I am interested in comments on what prevailing tip ranges are for 8 hour overnights and for longer trips like trains like 7 & 8 and 11 & 14.


On my recent trip, I tipped $10/night (a total of $20 for the EB) and $5 for a day trip (no overnight). I thought it to be rude not to tip, even if they didn't ever make up the room. This was for reasonable service. I would have no qualms about stiffing them if the service was poor.

It wouldn't matter to me if the roomette has one or two people.


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## spacecadet (Nov 17, 2008)

I think $5-$10 per night is the reasonable range. I think I usually do $10, and will go down to $5 if the attendant is one of those people that's obviously trying to do the minimum required to collect a paycheck. I've never had an attendant that really did nothing, though, so I've never not wanted to tip anything at all.

I've seen people in other threads who say they will tip up to $20 per night, which I think is a little unreasonable. It's a tip, it's extra. $20 per night is actually paying them a decent hourly wage for the amount of work they do per room, and that's not what a tip is supposed to be for. Their wages are already being paid.

I will obviously tip extra for extra service that they wouldn't otherwise do, like meal delivery.


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## Tony (Nov 17, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Except that it's not the attendant’s job to seriously clean your room, that honor belongs to the cleaning crew in the yard or station. The attendant's job is to provide clean towels and washcloths, soap, sheets, blankets, & pillows, coffee, juice, water, newspaper, wake up calls, freshening up the public restrooms, a light cleaning if the room is turning over during the trip, meals delivered when requested, ensure that you get off at your destination, and your general safety.


OK, let me clarify.

My base $5 tip is for "clean towels and washcloths, soap, sheets, blankets, pillows, coffee, juice, water, newspaper".

I tip $10 if I made use of (but in actuality I rarely do) "wake up calls, freshening up the public restrooms, ensure that you get off at your destination, day/night conversion of room".

I would tip $20 if I ever requested "meals delivered" (that's a waitstaff tip and a delivery tip rolled into one).


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## access bob (Nov 17, 2008)

jmbgeg said:


> I have been traveling by train for several years but do not yet have a good sense of what fair sleeper car attendent tips are. My most frequent trips are overnights from Spokane that leave at 2:15 and 2:45 a.m. and arrive in Seattle or Portland about 10:00 a.m. with return legs leaving about 4:45 p.m. returning after midnight. On these trips the attendent's service that I utilize is often limited to putting the bed down and back up. Next month I will travel again on the Empire Builder Eastbond which is about a 35 hour trip on a single train. A comparable travel time train that I take is Portland to L.A. on the Coast Starlight. My tipping to date has generally been $10 to $20 flat (never $10 on the long trips). I am interested in comments on what prevailing tip ranges are for 8 hour overnights and for longer trips like trains like 7 & 8 and 11 & 14.


My base is $10 per night, and adjust up or down based on service.

I have given as little as nothing for a couple nights of hell.

and as high as $35 for one night when service was over and above the highest level expected.

Bob


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## rogers55 (Nov 17, 2008)

I like to keep things simple.

Redcaps get $5, Sleeping card attendants $20 (except for THAT ONE who got nothing).

Dining car same as any other restaurant.


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## Tony (Nov 17, 2008)

rogers55 said:


> Dining car same as any other restaurant.


Now that is an interesting tangent.

Do people leave, say, a flat $4 to $5 per person, or do they actually calculate what the bill would have been (if the meal wasn't included with their accommodation), and leave 15% to 20% of that number?


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## AlanB (Nov 17, 2008)

Tony said:


> rogers55 said:
> 
> 
> > Dining car same as any other restaurant.
> ...


Many people do just drop 5 bucks or so for dinner as that's easier. But there are those who do their best to actually calculate the value of what they ate and tip accordingly.


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## spacecadet (Nov 17, 2008)

It used to be tradition in the dining car that you would leave $1-$2 regardless of the meal price. I believe this was because most meals were paid for as part of the fare, so you weren't really charged anything.

I'm talking 20 years ago, though, so $5 would probably be more reasonable now. But it is not *traditionally* like a regular restaurant where you calculate 15-20% of the bill. I'm sure some people do that, but you don't have to feel obligated to.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 18, 2008)

Consider nothing for no service, $5 per person/per night for decent service, and the sky's the limit above that. If you feel the man has earned more than any of us have ever tipped here, then thats what you should give him.

Conversely, sleeping car attendants make a decent living. They do nothing, they should get nothing. Its not like a diner waitress who is going to be out on the street if she gets no tips. No compassion here. If they want to do worse then perfunctory service (and a few do), they shouldn't get a tip for that.

My dad once gave a $50 tip to a hotel doorman who helped us with a broken down rental car. (Providing us with warm towels after we had walked through a quarter mile of rain, called the rental car company for us, and so on and so forth) Someone goes out of their way, and their job description, to make your life better, it is fair to do something to make their life better.


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## AAARGH! (Nov 18, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> It used to be tradition in the dining car that you would leave $1-$2 regardless of the meal price. I believe this was because most meals were paid for as part of the fare, so you weren't really charged anything.
> I'm talking 20 years ago, though, so $5 would probably be more reasonable now. But it is not *traditionally* like a regular restaurant where you calculate 15-20% of the bill. I'm sure some people do that, but you don't have to feel obligated to.


Based on the tradition, on my recent trip I tipped the dining car server a flat $2/person for lunch and dinner, and $1/person for breakfast. I even used $2 bills to be remembered by.

I believe the Amtrak menu prices to be *highly* overinflated. The Flat Iron steak is not worth anywhere near $22. Given I am captive and don't have the choice to go somewhere else for a full meal (like when off the train), I believe that tipping 15% of the full menu price to be too much. That is, when off the train, if I believe the prices are too high for what is served, I can go somewhere else. I know this 'adjustment of true value' I have implemented may not be fair to what the servers expect, but I do believe what I am tipping to be fair for the service/value rendered.

I arrived at my decision based on searches of this forum last year, so I am not alone.


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## spacecadet (Nov 18, 2008)

aaargh said:


> I believe the Amtrak menu prices to be *highly* overinflated. The Flat Iron steak is not worth anywhere near $22.


That's probably true in terms of raw food costs, as this is one of the cheapest cuts of meat out there (a 1/2lb. steak is about $3, even in New York City).

Still, though, you *could* use the same logic for any restaurant. I live in NYC and I occasionally go out to ridiculously expensive restaurants (for anniversaries and whatnot), and I know going in that a couple of little pieces of sushi are not really worth $70. Part of what you're paying for is the overall experience. That furniture, the decorations, the rent, the wait staff, the chef, all that costs money. Same is true of Amtrak. They're still not covering costs in the dining car even with the inflated prices. So it's arguable whether they really are inflated or not.

I'm not saying I think they *should* have to cover costs in the dining car (this is the rationale for the diner lite), but if their stated goal is to do so, then I guess they've got to charge some realistic prices for their food.


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## Hamhock (Nov 18, 2008)

The difference on $22 steak between tipping your server 10% ($2.20) or 15% ($3.30) is basically a buck. Don't be a cheapskate.


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## Montanan (Nov 18, 2008)

Hamhock said:


> The difference on $22 steak between tipping your server 10% ($2.20) or 15% ($3.30) is basically a buck. Don't be a cheapskate.


Absolutely agreed. While I also tend to think that many of Amtrak's meals aren't particularly good value, that's certainly not the fault of the dining car staff ... don't take your frustrations out on them.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 18, 2008)

Keep in mind, in a Superliner Diner, you got one LSA and one SA attempting to serve up to 72 people at 18 tables. And we all know some of them actually try to fill the dining car. No waiter in a restaurant works that hard, let alone while rocking along at 80 mph and being kept away from home for a week at a time. The ones that do their job well deserve a decent tip for their effort.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Keep in mind, in a Superliner Diner, you got one LSA and one SA attempting to serve up to 72 people at 18 tables. And we all know some of them actually try to fill the dining car. No waiter in a restaurant works that hard, let alone while rocking along at 80 mph and being kept away from home for a week at a time. The ones that do their job well deserve a decent tip for their effort.


Not under SDS, except for breakfast and even then it's unlikely that all arrive at the same time. But other than breakfast, that no longer happens where they fill up all 72 seats at once under the SDS plan. Under SDS 8 people are seated at 15 minute intervals, skipping every third 15 minute block.

If the passenger load is high enough, then generally Amtrak adds another SA and/or another cook. In that case, under SDS they can now seat 12 people every 15 minutes following the above scenario.

Now I'm not sure if the overall SDS plan has since been revised from what I saw originally, but in the cases where a CCC is being used solely as a diner, the plan seems to be to seat every half hour and I believe that they seat 14 (2 - 3 seaters and 2- 4 seaters) at one time, assuming one LSA and one SA.

All that said, most of these guys and gals do work very hard. Very few waiters/waitresses in a regular resturant work three meals in a row, in a resturant that shakes and rolls while you're trying do your job. And your average waiter/waitress goes home at night to sleep in their own bed.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 18, 2008)

They are still often filled to capacity, if not all at once. And we all know that some of them pay only lip service to SDS rules.


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## haolerider (Nov 18, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> They are still often filled to capacity, if not all at once. And we all know that some of them pay only lip service to SDS rules.


Those that fill the dining car at one time put the passenger in the "no customer service" mode. They simply cannot deal with that many people and the chef cannot keep up with the demand, therefore complaints come in saying the diner is the problem, when in fact it is the crew.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> And we all know that some of them pay only lip service to SDS rules.


A problem that Amtrak is working to fix.


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## AAARGH! (Nov 18, 2008)

Hamhock said:


> The difference on $22 steak between tipping your server 10% ($2.20) or 15% ($3.30) is basically a buck. Don't be a cheapskate.


On a nine day trip (20+ meals times two people), it's much more than a buck. BUT in principal, I do agree. I was basing my tipping on the 'traditional' model discussed at length on this board last year. However, if the prevailing custom has changed, I am certainly willing to tip accordingly. I am typically a 18% - 20% tipper at non-train restaurants. I do not consider myself cheap in that department. (On clothes, that's a different story :blink: ).

Unfortunately, during my nine day (5 train) trip, I saw many who stiffed their servers completley. I guess they think a free meal (part of the ticket) included everything. This is a disgrace. On the flip side, I did see some, though not many, who did tip 15% or more. Most tipped like me, $2 per person per meal for lunch and dinner.


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## Alice (Nov 18, 2008)

aaargh said:


> Unfortunately, during my nine day (5 train) trip, I saw many who stiffed their servers completley. I guess they think a free meal (part of the ticket) included everything. This is a disgrace. On the flip side, I did see some, though not many, who did tip 15% or more. Most tipped like me, $2 per person per meal for lunch and dinner.


I've also noticed this. It is particularly striking on less busy trains when coach and sleeper passengers eat together, and some coach passengers, obviously financially challenged, work out on paper how much to tip and count it out to the penny.

I sometimes tip a little early if I suspect my table-sharers are non-tippers. Often they'll then ask about it.


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## Latisha (Nov 18, 2008)

Tipping isn't required or even suggested by Amtrak so I don't do it. Crusie ships suggest it, so I do. If the company doesn't say it's proper I figure they know best. I do always say thank you, for good service no matter what.


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## PRR 60 (Nov 18, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Tipping isn't required or even suggested by Amtrak so I don't do it. Crusie ships suggest it, so I do. If the company doesn't say it's proper I figure they know best. I do always say thank you, for good service no matter what.


Very interesting point. As far as I can see, Amtrak does not indicate that tips are expected for on board service people. Regular riders know that, but how would someone riding Amtrak for the first time know that tips are expected? If their prior experience is with airlines and flight attendants (who cannot accept tips), they likely would have no clue about tipping service people on Amtrak.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Tipping isn't required or even suggested by Amtrak so I don't do it. Crusie ships suggest it, so I do. If the company doesn't say it's proper I figure they know best. I do always say thank you, for good service no matter what.


So does that mean that you don't tip in restaurants either? They don't suggest it or require it either, unless maybe you're with a party of 8 or more. Most hotels don’t suggest that you tip the bellman or the concierge, yet people do. What about cab drivers? Their companies don't suggest it or require it. And then there are the pizza delivery people or other food deliveries, their companies don't suggest it either, yet most people do tip the delivery person. I've also never seen the US Postal service suggest or require tipping, yet many people give their postman a Christmas bonus, which is still a form of a tip for good service.

Cruise ships suggest it because they know that by doing so they can underpay their employees. They'll tell you that it's to motivate them, and yes that's part of it. But that's not the real reason that they promote the idea. Just like your hotel telling you that by putting your towel back on the rack is the green thing to do. Sure it is a green thing, but their real motivation is saving money. They have to buy less soap, they need less hot water and water in general, and they need less people working in the laundry room. Every time you don't drop that towel on the floor, you're saving that hotel money.

With respect, just because the company didn't tell you to do it or suggest it, doesn't mean that it's right or wrong.


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## Tony (Nov 19, 2008)

aaargh said:


> Unfortunately, during my nine day (5 train) trip, I saw many who stiffed their servers completley. I guess they think a free meal (part of the ticket) included everything. This is a disgrace.


Maybe Sleeper passengers should still get a "bill", that they sign but do not pay? At least this way, they have a grand total value of their meal(s) right in their face, and therefore, have a gauge as to how much of a tip should be left.

I have noticed lately, that a lot of restaurant coupons state right on them, that the customer should tip on the full value of their meal(s), and not on the after-coupon amount. Just because the restaurant is offering a free meal (one per table?), doesn't mean the waitstaff isn't working just as hard for that one meal/person.

I too have seen people get up in the diner car and leave (including those sharing a table with us), without leaving a tip. I don't think they are "cheap" but simply unaware that a tip would be expected.


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## jmbgeg (Nov 19, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Latisha said:
> 
> 
> > Tipping isn't required or even suggested by Amtrak so I don't do it. Crusie ships suggest it, so I do. If the company doesn't say it's proper I figure they know best. I do always say thank you, for good service no matter what.
> ...


This thread has evolved from my original question about sleeping car attendent tips (answered well) to a major discussion of dining car attendent tips. There, I tend to tip $2 minimum and in general, 10-15% of the menu price for the ordered items; depending on service quality. If service has not only been poor, but accompanied by a bad attitude, I tip no more than $2 and sometimes zero. Although it does not make it right, one thing to think about in the service industry that the you are sometimes affected by the events leading up to their contact with you. They are only human and if a prior customer(s) has been in their face, it is sometimes hard to get back on track and smile for the subsequent customers. Think of gate agents at airports (who don't get tips ever) who have to deal with customers after a flight delay or cancellation. Sometimes they are treated very unreasonably by customers. Certainly there can be bad service provided by incompetent employees, but others times as a customer you are just at the wrong place at the wrong time, and I try to have empathy for that.


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## Rail Freak (Nov 19, 2008)

On my x-country trip ( my only sleeper train trip), I, traveling alone, tipped between $5 & $10 per night because that was suggested on one discussion on this forum. I'm now wondering why a tip was expected for the service I received. The attendant turns your bed down & puts it up, has coffee in the morning, opens & closes the door at stops & sometimes has a news paper. If every sleeper tips like I did, the attendant makes a pretty good buck when adding & $20.00 an hr. pay. I'm not complaining but, from the attendants I had, I'd have to say they were over paid and over tipped. There were 2 attendants out of 7 that were deserving,IMO!


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## Greg (Nov 19, 2008)

I had a troubling experience on the Silver Service one trip. I was in the smoking car (when there was a smoking car) and I overheard a coach passenger tell someone that she took all the tip money off the table after everyone left the meal. She stated that she was broke and need the money more than the wait staff in the dining car needed it. From a humanistic standpoint, I've been troubled by that experience since, but I also now hand the tip to the serving staff directly rather than leave it on the table.


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## RRrich (Nov 19, 2008)

Greg said:


> I had a troubling experience on the Silver Service one trip. I was in the smoking car (when there was a smoking car) and I overheard a coach passenger tell someone that she took all the tip money off the table after everyone left the meal. She stated that she was broke and need the money more than the wait staff in the dining car needed it. From a humanistic standpoint, I've been troubled by that experience since, but I also now hand the tip to the serving staff directly rather than leave it on the table.


Sounds like simple theft to me. I have trouble with the whole idea of tips, but that is irrelevant - taking the money off the table is STEALING!!


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 19, 2008)

aaargh said:


> Hamhock said:
> 
> 
> > The difference on $22 steak between tipping your server 10% ($2.20) or 15% ($3.30) is basically a buck. Don't be a cheapskate.
> ...


On my LSL last May, tipping the sleeper attendants $5/night and tipping the servers in the pretend dining car based on the menu prices and what I would tip in a non-moving restaurant ended up with the total tips for the trip being somewhere around 2-3% of the cost of the railfare and accomodation charges. 2-3% hardly struck me as a large amount of money that would be worth worrying about. If Massachusetts found a way to collect their 5% sales tax on the trip, I'm sure that wouldn't have prevented me from taking the trip...


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## AAARGH! (Nov 19, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> aaargh said:
> 
> 
> > Hamhock said:
> ...


True enough. If I had tipped the full 15%, that would have been roughly 4% of the fare/room. As it was, I tipped about 2.5%. Again, I am NOT opposed to tipping the appropriate amount. What I beleived to be appropriate may have been in error I now realize. It was ignorance, not being a cheapskate.


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## Hamhock (Nov 19, 2008)

aaargh said:


> True enough. If I had tipped the full 15%, that would have been roughly 4% of the fare/room. As it was, I tipped about 2.5%. Again, I am NOT opposed to tipping the appropriate amount. What I beleived to be appropriate may have been in error I now realize. It was ignorance, not being a cheapskate.


My use of "don't be a cheapskate" was meant to be a general admonishment, not a specific one to you. I'm not interested in singling out anyone for condemnation. I can see from my use of the aforementioned $22 steak that it could come across so, but I was just using it as a handy example. My apologies if it seemed like I was directly dissing.


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## AAARGH! (Nov 19, 2008)

Hamhock said:


> aaargh said:
> 
> 
> > True enough. If I had tipped the full 15%, that would have been roughly 4% of the fare/room. As it was, I tipped about 2.5%. Again, I am NOT opposed to tipping the appropriate amount. What I beleived to be appropriate may have been in error I now realize. It was ignorance, not being a cheapskate.
> ...


I didn't take it a such, though now that I re-read the thread, I see how it appears as if I do. I do sound a bit defensive. :unsure:

No worries.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Tipping isn't required or even suggested by Amtrak so I don't do it. Crusie ships suggest it, so I do. If the company doesn't say it's proper I figure they know best. I do always say thank you, for good service no matter what.


Look, why don't you not take the train, since you apparently don't care to do the clearly appropriate thing. The rationalizations people use to save themselves a buck in tipping are fascinating sociologically, but otherwise just irritating.

I mean, dude. I've made maybe $4000 this year, and I've probably spent $2500 of it on rail trips. And I tip. I am so cash strapped it hurts, and I tip people. Either I can afford to tip the wait people, or I can't afford to eat in the diner. I can afford to tip my sleeping car attendant, or I have no business riding in a sleeping car.

I eat out at restaurants, too. The price of the meal I figure before going in includes my estimate of the tip. It should be the same on Amtrak. If they lose themselves a tip, and some do, thats a boost to your bottom line. Better to overestimate cost anyways.


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## Latisha (Nov 19, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Look, why don't you not take the train, since you apparently don't care to do the clearly appropriate thing.



Look, why don't you just not tell me what to do? It's not against the law not to tip.

I would never tip a City Council Member or even a Meter Maid. It's not an appropriate thing to do.

I simply don't believe in tipping government employees. That's just my opinion. I'm allowed to have one of those.

Thank you


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 19, 2008)

Amtrak employees are not government employees. They are Amtrak employees, a private corporation that happens to be largely (although not entirely) owned by the U.S. Government.

I will be happy to continue sharing my opinions with you on this forum, considering a forum is a free exchange of opinions.


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## AAARGH! (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Look, why don't you just not tell me what to do? It's not against the law not to tip.
> I would never tip a City Council Member or even a Meter Maid. It's not an appropriate thing to do.
> 
> I simply don't believe in tipping government employees. That's just my opinion. I'm allowed to have one of those.
> ...


Why does being a government employee have anything to do with it? They are servers at a restaurant. I don't tip my council member becuse the custom is not to do so. It's the job, not the employer.

I find your rationalization (and this is what is is) to be perplexing at best.

You are entitled to your opinion. But you will find that it is in the vast minority.

Also, I don't believe Amtrak employees are government employees. Amtrak is subsidised by the governement, but I believe it is not an agency. I may be wrong, so somebody correct me if i am.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2008)

aaargh said:


> Also, I don't believe Amtrak employees are government employees. Amtrak is subsidised by the governement, but I believe it is not an agency. I may be wrong, so somebody correct me if i am.


You are correct, Amtrak employees are not government employees. They won't get a government pension when they retire, and they don't get a paycheck from the US treasury, which would be the ultimate definitions of a government employee IMHO.

And only about 1/3 of Amtrak's total budget comes from the Federal Government. The rest is raised through fares charged for travel, payments from states for services, real estate, and a few other sources.


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## Hamhock (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> I simply don't believe in tipping government employees. That's just my opinion. I'm allowed to have one of those.


You're allowed to have an opinion, and others are allowed to find it asinine. A discussion forum is a conduit for exchange, not edict.


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## Latisha (Nov 19, 2008)

All of Amtrak's preferred stock is owned by the U.S. federal government. The members of its board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.

Close enough for government work.


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## Rail Freak (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> All of Amtrak's preferred stock is owned by the U.S. federal government. The members of its board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.
> Close enough for government work.



& close enough for attendents tips


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> All of Amtrak's preferred stock is owned by the U.S. federal government. The members of its board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.
> Close enough for government work.


Sorry I must respectfully disagree. As I mentioned above, if Amtrak workers were getting Government pay checks and government pensions, then I'd be inclined to agree. But Amtrak workers don't get those things. Who owns the stock has nothing to do with wether or not the worker's are government workers or not.


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## Latisha (Nov 19, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> Latisha said:
> 
> 
> > All of Amtrak's preferred stock is owned by the U.S. federal government. The members of its board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.
> ...



Hey, spelling counts and I still don't have to tip if i choose not to. Thank you.


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## JayPea (Nov 19, 2008)

I figure that if I'm paying a decent amount for the privilege using a sleeper car, what's a few more dollars for a tip? I usually tip $3/meal in the diner and $5/night for sleeping car attendants. The last long distance trip I took, last fall on the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago, the sleeping car attendant really didn't do much besides sit in his room and read the newspaper. No ice and we (my uncle and I traveled together) did the beds ourselves. However, he was such a nice and pleasant man that I gave him 10 bucks anyway. I guess I was feeling charitable. :lol:


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Latisha said:
> ...


That is correct, you don't have to tip if you don't want to, although you may not get good service because of it.

But please don't fool yourself into thinking that it's ok not to tip because they're government employees. They are not! And therefore it's not a valid reason not to tip.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2008)

AlanB said:


> But please don't fool yourself into thinking that it's ok not to tip because they're government employees. They are not! And therefore it's not a valid reason not to tip.


Wrong. I. Do. Not. Need. ANY. Reason. Not. To. Tip.


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## the Other Mike (Nov 19, 2008)

My dad had traveled a good bit by train overnight in the 50's and 60's. When I was taking my first overnight train trip in the 70's, he told me "insure a great trip by tipping the attendant when you board". I did not know until he explained it to me that was a standard routine on the Panama and had done wonders for him on the Broadway.

I followed his advice and have NEVER had a less than superior service. Sure, you take the risk of tipping someone who won't deserve it but I've never experienced that.

None of my sleeper trips have been more that two days and one night, but in recent times I slip the attendant a twenty when boarding ( telling them I want to make sure they get it in case I don't see them when getting off ) and ask them to come by after they have gotten everyone settled in for my meal times etc.

That $20 is the best money I ever spend. You would swear it's still the pullmen agency of the 50's.

I do everything possible to treat them with respect and express my love for trains. I even tell them not to worry about the bed and that I will do it myself. The more I say I will do, the more they TRY to do FOR me. They have always remembered that I like to eat late when they are not so rushed, I'm usually shown where extra supplies of everything is located etc. I've even found extra snacks and beverages in my room at night. And, as a smoker, they are great about knocking lightly and saying "smoke stop in 10 minutes" just loud enough so that if I'm awake I'll hear it but if sleeping it won't wake me up.

Some trips have been so wonderful that I tip them again when getting off the train and I slip the attendants in the diner a few bucks. when the cook used to be on the same level on the heritage equipment I've tipped the cook after a great meal and some good conversation about the old days and was treated the next morning to one of the best breakfasts I've ever had delivered to my room.

As a teacher, I'm by no means rich, but I can afford to tip more now than when I was in my 20's.

If someone doesn't want to tip the car attendant, thats a shame, but thanks for allowing them a reason to spend more time pampering me.........................

Last year on the Sunset my car cleared out at one stop and the older woman attendant was rushing to get a bunch of rooms ready for some boarding passengers. I helped her change sheets and reset a few rooms and take the trash out. She didn't want me to, but what the heck, I'm a train freak and enjoyed doing it. I may be a pompous, arrogant a$$ in normal life but on the train I'm like a 5 year old having a great time. I want to experience the BEST rail travel has to offer, not just statis quo.

< stepping off the soapbox>

Sorry for the rant :unsure:


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## MrEd (Nov 19, 2008)

$25 per day and additional $10 per meal.


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## AlanB (Nov 19, 2008)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But please don't fool yourself into thinking that it's ok not to tip because they're government employees. They are not! And therefore it's not a valid reason not to tip.
> ...


And if you had fully read my post, you would have seen that I did agree with you that you don't need a reason not to tip.

But you seemed to believe that the fact that Amtrak's employees are government workers is a valid reason for you not to tip. You said that, not I.

I'm merely pointing out that Amtrak workers are *not* government employees. If you don't want to tip, fine, don't tip. But please don't rationalize that it's ok not to tip because Amtrak workers are government employees. They aren’t.

I’m not trying to pick a fight with you or anything else. You have the right to tip or not to tip and you have the right to enjoy or not enjoy the service rendered because you did or didn’t tip.


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## sky12065 (Nov 19, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Latisha said:
> 
> 
> > Rail Freak said:
> ...


Alan, I totally agree with you! There have been times that we have sat with others (non-Amtrak) and they stiffed our server. I felt totally embarrased by their total lack of consideration. One time I even checked with the owner of the restaurant to see if someone I highly suspected to be the stiffing type left a tip or not and I was told they left nothing, nada! I gave our waitress an extra 5 bucks even though I was told by the owner that it was alright, I didn't have to do that! I believe that your waiter should be treated as you would want to be treated; if one does real swell, then do tip them well,  but if service is down, tip to give them a frown! 

Also, before my son Mike entered college he was working at a local restaurant. He was hired as a bartender, but a couple of weeks after he started, he was permitted to spend a night as a waiter. By his very first customers ever, he was told after he gave the couple their check that they were not giving him a tip because they didn't like the way the chef presented his dishes. They further told him that he did an ok job but were not going to leave a tip anyway.

My son was so angered over that first experienced that he never waited tables again or ever want's to, and just because someone had to be such an arrogant cheapskate! There was some poetic justice though. The man left his credit card on the table when he left and had to later drive back to pick it up! My son was real tempted to toss the card in the garbage but took the high road and didn't!


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 19, 2008)

Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But please don't fool yourself into thinking that it's ok not to tip because they're government employees. They are not! And therefore it's not a valid reason not to tip.
> ...


Then why come up with lame excuses?


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## PRR 60 (Nov 19, 2008)

Wow, there is nothing like a good "tip or no-tip" thread to stir things up around here. Very lively!

Tippers tip and non-tippers don't. That is a fact of life for everyone in the service business. There is no law either way, so to each his or her own. I do think it would be helpful to new riders if Amtrak mentioned that tipping room and dining service people is customary. Since many new Amtrak riders equate a train to a plane, I'm sure many have no clue that tips are often given to people that seem, at least superficially, to be like flight attendants. Of course they could stop by AU for help in the midst of one or our tipping-storms. Then they would really be confused.


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## jmbgeg (Nov 19, 2008)

the Other Mike said:


> My dad had traveled a good bit by train overnight in the 50's and 60's. When I was taking my first overnight train trip in the 70's, he told me "insure a great trip by tipping the attendant when you board". I did not know until he explained it to me that was a standard routine on the Panama and had done wonders for him on the Broadway.
> I followed his advice and have NEVER had a less than superior service. Sure, you take the risk of tipping someone who won't deserve it but I've never experienced that.
> 
> None of my sleeper trips have been more that two days and one night, but in recent times I slip the attendant a twenty when boarding ( telling them I want to make sure they get it in case I don't see them when getting off ) and ask them to come by after they have gotten everyone settled in for my meal times etc.
> ...


I agree with the merits of tipping when you board or soon after, on long trips. Often for me it is when I request a bucket of ice for my sleeper. I tip for the first night and it sets a good tone in the attendent/passenger relationship .


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## Tony (Nov 20, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Since many new Amtrak riders equate a train to a plane, I'm sure many have no clue that tips are often given to people that seem, at least superficially, to be like flight attendants.


Wow, you opened my eyes! :blink:

I have never once tipped a flight attendant and I have never once seen anyone else do it (well, except possibly for their tenth "hard" drink). However, I didn't hesitate to tip on the train even on my first journey.

I now wonder if many first-time train riders don't realize that tipping is part of the journey? I mean, as someone pointed out, no where does Amtrak ever mention that "tipping is optional".


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## Rail Freak (Nov 20, 2008)

Latisha said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > Latisha said:
> ...


 how,what,huh,oh, :unsure:

Better?


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## Neil_M (Nov 20, 2008)

When I travelled on the EB from Essex to Chicago last Thursday, my sleeper attendant was Louis and he had a trainee, Annie. They were really really excellent, plenty of Mimosas coming my way and Louis was very helpful in other more 'railfan' style directions....

I was only aboard 1 night but I thought $20 was a fair thank you.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 20, 2008)

Latisha said:


> All of Amtrak's preferred stock is owned by the U.S. federal government. The members of its board of directors are appointed by the President of the United States and are subject to confirmation by the United States Senate.
> Close enough for government work.


The rest of it is owned by private freight railroads. Government ownership does not make a government employee. Conrail was government owned. The government sold them. If the government privatized Amtrak, would you start tipping?



Guest said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > But please don't fool yourself into thinking that it's ok not to tip because they're government employees. They are not! And therefore it's not a valid reason not to tip.
> ...


You need no reason at all not to tip. Correct! Very good.

You also need no reason to not post your opinion up onto a forum. By doing so, you are opening your opinion up to scrutiny by its members.

I have a problem with your not tipping- I feel it is philosophically wrong. I have a bigger problem with you basing your justification on a load of poppycock. I call that rationalizing, and I find it sickening.


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## syntaxfactory (Nov 20, 2008)

_I have a problem with your not tipping- I feel it is philosophically wrong. I have a bigger problem with you basing your justification on a load of poppycock. I call that rationalizing, and I find it sickening._

Amen!


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## syntaxfactory (Nov 20, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> On my x-country trip ( my only sleeper train trip), I, traveling alone, tipped between $5 & $10 per night because that was suggested on one discussion on this forum. I'm now wondering why a tip was expected for the service I received. The attendant turns your bed down & puts it up, has coffee in the morning, opens & closes the door at stops & sometimes has a news paper. If every sleeper tips like I did, the attendant makes a pretty good buck when adding & $20.00 an hr. pay. I'm not complaining but, from the attendants I had, I'd have to say they were over paid and over tipped. There were 2 attendants out of 7 that were deserving,IMO!


Clearly, you have never had Gul!

db


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## syntaxfactory (Nov 20, 2008)

_I now wonder if many first-time train riders don't realize that tipping is part of the journey? I mean, as someone pointed out, no where does Amtrak ever mention that "tipping is optional"._

The first time, I tipped because the other couple at our table did. I might have left without tipping that first time, because "it's all included in the sleeper fare."

But all you have to do is open your eyes and you see that it is customary to tip.


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## Carl (Jan 2, 2009)

Any thoughts on when to tip the sleeping car attendant? At the beginning of the trip? At the end? Day to day?

--chh


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## Tony (Jan 2, 2009)

Carl said:


> Any thoughts on when to tip the sleeping car attendant? At the beginning of the trip? At the end? Day to day?


If the attendant successfully handles a special request, I would tip the attendant right then for that. For example, if I request to be fed in my room, I would tip him/her a "waitstaff table" tip, plus a "room service" tip.

If the attendant just did the basic services, I would tip at the end. Usually, they are right at the exit door when I am departing and I can easily slip him/her a $10 (or $20).


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## Tiger (Jan 2, 2009)

> For example, if I request to be fed in my room, I would tip him/her a "waitstaff table" tip, plus a "room service" tip.



I have never requested that an attendant actually feed me. But, if I did I would tip really really well for that service!


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## ruudkeulers (Jan 3, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> The ones that do their job well deserve a decent tip for their effort.



Maybe this sounds too european, but why on earth should you tip anyone for doing his/her job well? Isn't that what they're hired for? I never ever in my life got a tip for doing my job well as a journalist...


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## yarrow (Jan 3, 2009)

ruudkeulers said:


> Maybe this sounds too european, but why on earth should you tip anyone for doing his/her job well? Isn't that what they're hired for? I never ever in my life got a tip for doing my job well as a journalist...


i pretty much agree. part of the situation is that a lot of american service companies underpay their employees and expect the tips the employee recieves to bring them up to a livable wage. in my job, tipping isn't a part either


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## ruudkeulers (Jan 3, 2009)

yarrow said:


> ruudkeulers said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe this sounds too european, but why on earth should you tip anyone for doing his/her job well? Isn't that what they're hired for? I never ever in my life got a tip for doing my job well as a journalist...
> ...


In my country we have labour unions to bring employees to a livable wage instead of train passengers! Always thought those kind of unions existed in the States as well...


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## GG-1 (Jan 4, 2009)

ruudkeulers said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > ruudkeulers said:
> ...


Aloha

Tipping is not wage connected, whether the worker is union or not, (in a perfect world) but remember Tipping is a "gratuity" for something (service) you receive above and beyond the "duty to perform" from his employer. Remember as Smokey the Bear say's "only you can ..."  decide that. Even if most of us have developed standards. If you did the same thing for someone else, what would you expect?


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## Tony (Jan 4, 2009)

GG-1 said:


> Tipping is not wage connected, whether the worker is union or not, (in a perfect world) but remember Tipping is a "gratuity" for something (service) you receive above and beyond the "duty to perform" from his employer.


Except for waitstaff because their employers are legally allowed to pay them below, far below, minimum wage. I think it is still below $2/hr. Tough, for Amtrak SA's, I agree, they are paid full wages.


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## TVRM610 (Jan 4, 2009)

A little tipping goes a long way on amtrak... trust me. Feel free to argue weather its right or wrong to tip, weather amtrak employees are "government" or not or whatever else you want to say but know this... If you tip you will get better service on amtrak. I guarantee it.


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## sky12065 (Jan 4, 2009)

GG-1 said:


> Tipping is not wage connected, whether the worker is union or not, (in a perfect world) but remember Tipping is a "gratuity" for something (service) you receive above and beyond the "duty to perform" from his employer. *Remember as Smokey the Bear say's "only you can ..." *  * decide that.* Even if most of us have developed standards. If you did the same thing for someone else, what would you expect?


Very true.... until you're in a party of X or more in some restaurants! Thanks to the dead beats that have brought it on by totally inappreciative tipping practices, your going to be gratuitive weither you like it or not when the establishment mandates it by writing X% gratutity into your check! <_<


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## Hamhock (Jan 4, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> Very true.... until you're in a party of X or more in some restaurants! Thanks to the dead beats that have brought it on by totally inappreciative tipping practices, your going to be gratuitive weither you like it or not when the establishment mandates it by writing X% gratutity into your check! <_<


Back in my table-waiting college days, that "tag the check for parties of 5 or more" policy was greatly appreciated by me. I also like it as a patron; in a larger group of people, there's invariably one or two tightwads who throw off the bill by not kicking in for their fair share of tax and tip. The auto-gratuity protects the other members of the party.

We also practiced discriminate "tagging" of the check for smaller parties based on certain factors. For example: the British! Not accustomed to tipping for alcohol? You certainly would be at my table.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jan 4, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> Very true.... until you're in a party of X or more in some restaurants! Thanks to the dead beats that have brought it on by totally inappreciative tipping practices, your going to be gratuitive weither you like it or not when the establishment mandates it by writing X% gratutity into your check! <_<


I've also encountered at least one person who said he would have left a larger tip than what was mandated if only it hadn't been mandated for large parties.


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## AlanB (Jan 4, 2009)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > Very true.... until you're in a party of X or more in some restaurants! Thanks to the dead beats that have brought it on by totally inappreciative tipping practices, your going to be gratuitive weither you like it or not when the establishment mandates it by writing X% gratutity into your check! <_<
> ...


Now you know two people like that Joel.  I'm that way.

In fact there was a Hibachi resturant that my wife and I used to go to all the time up until a few years ago. They instituted a mandatory tip for all parties, regardless of size. The bulk of their clientel were notoriously bad tippers, even though most had the money to do it and then some.

However, because the manager knew us and knew what I would normally tip, he'd always override the computer for our check to stop the manadatory tip. Then maybe two or three months before we stopped going to that resturant, it was too far away and a decent one finally opened up much closer to where we live, they finally got smart. They reprogrammed their system to not only include the mandatory tip, but also a blank line where one could write in an additional tip above and beyond the mandatory one.


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## sky12065 (Jan 4, 2009)

Hamhock said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > Very true.... until you're in a party of X or more in some restaurants! Thanks to the dead beats that have brought it on by totally inappreciative tipping practices, your going to be gratuitive weither you like it or not when the establishment mandates it by writing X% gratutity into your check! <_<
> ...


Reminds me of when back several years ago I brought in a group of about 20 people to my favorite dinner following a wake.

I suspected the two people that I was _(sarcism on)_ lucky enough to have sit next to me _(sarcism off)_ would not bother to leave any tip. After everyone left I asked the owner if they left a tip on their credit card since they left none at the table. He checked and sure enough he said no! I took out a $5 bill and told him to give that to the waitress who definitely deserved no to be stiffed. He told me I didn't have to do that, but I insisted!

My offer was sincere without any thought of personal gain from it, but since he has offered me free banana nut, pumpkin or zuccini breads about 3 or 4 times a year since. Sometimes you get back plus for what you give!


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## AlanB (Jan 4, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> My offer was sincere without any thought of personal gain from it, but since he has offered me free banana nut, pumpkin or zuccini breads about 3 or 4 times a year since. Sometimes you get back plus for what you give!


That's very true. Two of the resturants that my wife and I frequent often slip us a drink on the house.


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## Neil_M (Jan 4, 2009)

AlanB said:


> They reprogrammed their system to not only include the mandatory tip, but also a blank line where one could write in an additional tip above and beyond the mandatory one.


That's just a rip off.... How much tip do you need to give?

If you have a mandatory tip you may as well just include it in the menu prices.


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## sky12065 (Jan 4, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > They reprogrammed their system to not only include the mandatory tip, but also a blank line where one could write in an additional tip above and beyond the mandatory one.
> ...


Like it or not, doesn't the term "full disclosure" have some bearing here?


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