# Need help from old time train buffs



## Jstanovic (Feb 14, 2013)

I am 60... But I remember riding the train with my mother from Cleveland ohio to NYC to viit my aunts during Christmas when I was 5.

Would anyone know what train line that would have been? Any of the history?

Thanks!


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## the_traveler (Feb 14, 2013)

Could have been the 20th Century Limited, but I'm not sure if it stopped in Cleveland.


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 14, 2013)

Probably the New York Central.


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## zephyr17 (Feb 14, 2013)

Cleveland to NYC was almost certainly the New York Central, but they ran multiple trains on that route in the 50s and early 60s, the best of which was the 20th Century Limited. The 20th made very, very few intermediate stops and even if it stopped in the Cleveland area, I don't think it was routed into Cleveland Union Terminal because of timing. I have a 1961 Official Guide and could look it up there, but unfortunately it is buried in a box I haven't gotten to yet.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 14, 2013)

Some of the New York Central trains were the Knickerbocker, Empire State Express, Lake Shore Limited, Southwestern Limited, North Star Cleveland Limited,the Chicagoan, the Irquois. It is true that the 20-th Century Limited did not stop at Cleveland--at least not in its glory days..

The New York Central had at least two routes from Chicago to New York, one which went via Detroit and one via Toledo and Cleveland.

The Pennsylvania also had some service as did the smaller Nickel Plate and the Erie Lackawana.

The NYC timetable I skirted through is dated 1955 My apology if I overlooked anything. Usually the further back, the more trains.


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## Jstanovic (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks for all of your help! I appreciate it!


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## ScottRu (Feb 15, 2013)

While we are asking for help -- my grandfather used work for the railroad that serviced the steel mills in Gary, Indiana. Any guesses as to which railroad that would have been?

Thanks.


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## zephyr17 (Feb 15, 2013)

There are a lot of options on that one. NYC, Nickel Plate and Pennsy come immediately to mind. There are a LOT of railroads through Gary.


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## ScottRu (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks, Zepher. I have his old RR Watch.. I suspect that will tell me! (I remember him taking me to the Chicago yard and watching "the hump" in action. I'm 72, so this was a long time ago! But the memory of it is still quite vivid for me.)

Off on a trip from New York to New Orleans on the Crescent on the 2/25.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 15, 2013)

This discussion reminds me. My great-grandfather worked on the RR in Columbia, PA. In fact he was killed on the job. Not sure when this was but sometime late 1890's or early 1900's (my mom was born in 1912). Guess I have some railroad blood in me after all.


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 15, 2013)

Lots of New York Central Timetables to browse through here from the 1870s to the 1960s:

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ptt/timetables.htm


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## rrdude (Feb 17, 2013)

I'd suggest this LINK ABOVE be added to the Amtrak Timetables pages, very useful for comparing.


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## The Davy Crockett (Feb 17, 2013)

rrdude said:


> I'd suggest this LINK ABOVE be added to the Amtrak Timetables pages, very useful for comparing.


"I second this suggestion! :excl: It is a great resource." Said train nerd of other train nerds post. :lol:


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## railiner (Feb 17, 2013)

ScottRu said:


> While we are asking for help -- my grandfather used work for the railroad that serviced the steel mills in Gary, Indiana. Any guesses as to which railroad that would have been?
> Thanks.


To add to what others listed, I would say likely the old Elgin, Joliet, and Eastern. Another possibility, the Indiana Harbor Belt.........


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## railiner (Feb 17, 2013)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Some of the New York Central trains were the Knickerbocker, Empire State Express, Lake Shore Limited, Southwestern Limited, North Star Cleveland Limited,the Chicagoan, the Irquois. It is true that the 20-th Century Limited did not stop at Cleveland--at least not in its glory days..
> The New York Central had at least two routes from Chicago to New York, one which went via Detroit and one via Toledo and Cleveland.
> 
> The Pennsylvania also had some service as did the smaller Nickel Plate and the Erie Lackawana.
> ...


Since the OP indicated it was 55 years ago (1958), that was prior to the Erie Lackawanna merger. So it could have been Erie all the way, or Nickel Plate-Lackawanna thru cars. Could have also been B&O, but not sure if they still went to Cleveland at that time, I think they stopped service east of Baltimore that year, so not likely....

And since only the Pennsy and NYC ran all the way directly into New York, it was most likely one of those two, and as mentioned previously, it was more likely to be the Central, since it was on their main line with multiple trains to choose from.


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## George Harris (Feb 18, 2013)

When mentioning a train ride that was well into the pre-Amtrak past, it seems that the first thing that comes to mind to many people.is the Twentieth Centruy Limited or whatever the premier train was on whatever route that is under discussion. Ladies and Gentlemen, for these routes that had multiple trains per day, unless you happened to be in the 1% or at most the 5%, the chance that the trip was whatever the premier train was is nil. Most of these top trains catered to the wealthy and famous or at the lowest to the expense account business traveler. If you were traveling on your own nickel, that is not what you would be riding. Look for the work a day trains that made more stops, had slower schedules, and had reasonably convenient schedules for the beginning and ending point of the trip that is in your memory.

The exception to this statement would be the routes, and there were many, that had only 2 to 3 or so trains per day.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 18, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suggest this LINK ABOVE be added to the Amtrak Timetables pages, very useful for comparing.
> ...


I also like the 1954 PRR timetable on a PRR fansite. I forgot the link, though.



George Harris said:


> When mentioning a train ride that was well into the pre-Amtrak past, it seems that the first thing that comes to mind to many people.is the Twentieth Centruy Limited or whatever the premier train was on whatever route that is under discussion. Ladies and Gentlemen, for these routes that had multiple trains per day, unless you happened to be in the 1% or at most the 5%, the chance that the trip was whatever the premier train was is nil. Most of these top trains catered to the wealthy and famous or at the lowest to the expense account business traveler. If you were traveling on your own nickel, that is not what you would be riding. Look for the work a day trains that made more stops, had slower schedules, and had reasonably convenient schedules for the beginning and ending point of the trip that is in your memory.
> The exception to this statement would be the routes, and there were many, that had only 2 to 3 or so trains per day.


For this route, very few would have taken the 20th Century, but on other routes, especially in the West, the premier train often carried a huge amount of passengers. Take note the SL, EB, or the UP Cities.


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## railiner (Feb 19, 2013)

George Harris said:


> When mentioning a train ride that was well into the pre-Amtrak past, it seems that the first thing that comes to mind to many people.is the Twentieth Centruy Limited or whatever the premier train was on whatever route that is under discussion. Ladies and Gentlemen, for these routes that had multiple trains per day, unless you happened to be in the 1% or at most the 5%, the chance that the trip was whatever the premier train was is nil. Most of these top trains catered to the wealthy and famous or at the lowest to the expense account business traveler. If you were traveling on your own nickel, that is not what you would be riding. Look for the work a day trains that made more stops, had slower schedules, and had reasonably convenient schedules for the beginning and ending point of the trip that is in your memory.
> The exception to this statement would be the routes, and there were many, that had only 2 to 3 or so trains per day.


IIRC, the Century did not stop at Cleveland's station, but made a 'technical' or service stop at the freight yard on the lakefront, In fact at various times in its history, the Century would only receive passengers at New York who were destined to Englewood or LaSalle Street stations in Chicago. Only stops for crew change or train servicing occured along the way--such as change from electric to steam or diesel at Croton-Harmon. Even with this traffic restriction, the Century ran with as many as SEVEN sections. Incredible! And as far as catering to the 'carriage trade', the Century added a hefty extra fare to the regular and Pullman fares.


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## Anderson (Feb 20, 2013)

Jstanovic said:


> I am 60... But I remember riding the train with my mother from Cleveland ohio to NYC to viit my aunts during Christmas when I was 5.
> Would anyone know what train line that would have been? Any of the history?
> 
> Thanks!


Do you by any chance remember what time of day you left Cleveland or arrived in New York (i.e. morning vs. evening)? I know it was long ago, but some stuff like that can help narrow down the train(s) you might have taken.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 20, 2013)

Anderson said:


> Jstanovic said:
> 
> 
> > I am 60... But I remember riding the train with my mother from Cleveland ohio to NYC to viit my aunts during Christmas when I was 5.
> ...


To take this thought a bit further, any chance you remember whether you went coach or sleeper? That could help narrow it down as to whether a day trip or night trip.. But most of all, might there be any family scrapbooks where perhaps the ticket stub or reservation slip was kept as a souvenir?


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## jphjaxfl (Feb 22, 2013)

My Dad was an agent for the New York Central so we did take the 20th Century a couple of times I in the early 1950s. Out of Chicago LaSalle, the train stopped at Englewood ( south Chicago 63rd street), flag at Gary, non stop to Buffalo Union Terminal which was an operating stop for crew change, then non stop to Albany and a flag at Croton Harmon where it had to stop for locomotive change, then on to Grand Central. New York Central had a 4 track main and all other trains gave right of way to the Century. The PRR did the same for the Broadway. Nothing like that in 2013.


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## railiner (Feb 22, 2013)

jphjaxfl said:


> My Dad was an agent for the New York Central so we did take the 20th Century a couple of times I in the early 1950s. Out of Chicago LaSalle, the train stopped at Englewood ( south Chicago 63rd street), flag at Gary, non stop to Buffalo Union Terminal which was an operating stop for crew change, then non stop to Albany and a flag at Croton Harmon where it had to stop for locomotive change, then on to Grand Central. New York Central had a 4 track main and all other trains gave right of way to the Century. The PRR did the same for the Broadway. Nothing like that in 2013.


Yes sir!

Woe unto anybody, be it another train crew, a block operator, a dispatcher, a section gang---whatever....if you were unfortunate enough to be responsible to cause a minute's delay to those two flagships........that's when you were 'called in on the carpet' to face the 'old man' (the division superintendent) to explain. :huh:


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