# First refunds, now baggage



## Train2104 (Aug 8, 2012)

http://www.amtrak.com/baggage-policy

Effective Sept 10:

-2 free bags and 2 paid bags per passenger ($20 fee)

-Size reduction...76 linear inches free, up to 100 for $20 a bag

-45 min checkin deadline, instead of 30min

-Storage fee increase

-No more tandem bikes or kayaks


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## the_traveler (Aug 8, 2012)

It's getting more like the airlines!




At least you get 2 bags free, not $25 (or whatever it is) for the first bag!



And I don't like going from 6 bags down to 4 bags - it makes moving harder!


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## Acela150 (Aug 8, 2012)

Why are they going from 3 to 2.. That's BS.. And 75 Linear inches???? Someone like myself doesn't know what that means along with half of the passengers. I'll take a gander and say it means total inches..


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## the_traveler (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes - 32x32x10 would be 74 Linear inches. 35x35x8 is 78 Linear inches - throw the bum out!


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## TraneMan (Aug 8, 2012)

How is this going to work for non-staffed stations? Not like they going to hold the train while to collect money before they board the train.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm impressed. I think that they decreased every parameter, and increased each charge.

You can check fewer bags, but smaller ones, with a cut-off time that's increased.

Is there any aspect of checked luggage that has escaped Amtrak's baleful gaze?


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## the_traveler (Aug 8, 2012)

TraneMan said:


> 1344478240[/url]' post='385937']How is this going to work for non-staffed stations? Not like they going to hold the train while to collect money before they board the train.


How are you going to check bags at a non-staffed station anyway?


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## EB_OBS (Aug 8, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> TraneMan said:
> 
> 
> > 1344478240[/url]' post='385937']How is this going to work for non-staffed stations? Not like they going to hold the train while to collect money before they board the train.
> ...


You can't check bags at an unstaffed station and the usual carry-on policy still applies.


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## EB_OBS (Aug 8, 2012)

Train2104 said:


> http://www.amtrak.com/baggage-policy
> 
> Effective Sept 10:
> 
> ...


This is the first I've heard of this. I work with station and baggage personnel most nights and I'm not sure they're aware of this policy change either. It's still more then a month away though. I'm sure Amtrak will receive lots and lots of feedback about it. Possibly it'll change a little.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Aug 8, 2012)

I just called and asked about

the line . NO PLASTIC LUGGAGE .

What a bunch of fools .... OK so ANY hard Based case is not gonna be kosher .

I guess my $600 in pelican cases are now banned OH and yea so is half the rolling Samsonite is banned . :help:

the 1st person I called at USARAIL confirms this .. I am gonna call again and see outta 4 calls what percent is able to think with both halfs of there brain . .

#1 said " no ,more plastic of any kind .I am not gonna quibble with you " .........

#2 "kenny " just said "" as long as its is Really real luggage and not a Rubbermaid box then its OK .

#3 Very nice lady .. she was unaware of the new 2 and 20 rule.. she was thanking ME for alerting her to the new gig "	the plastic was to keep people from useing "totes" for boxes" . " this rule has been in effect for years"

I am on hold with the lady and LOVE TRAIN comes on the hold music ! ( :wub: )

( at least they have some music taist )

While she was looking at the website.

She just came back on and was SO happy once Again that I called .

She said " Ill bet the week of Sept 10 Ill get a memo the night of" :giggle:

I am not gonna bother with a 4th call... but this goes to show how things need to be updated ..

Peter...


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## TraneMan (Aug 8, 2012)

Guess I was thinking the rule will apply to carry on as well like a long trips where a person will have 3 bags.


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## Train2104 (Aug 8, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> it makes moving harder!


That may be one of the motives behind this policy, to drive moving boxes to Amtrak Express.


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## afigg (Aug 9, 2012)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> I just called and asked about
> 
> the line . NO PLASTIC LUGGAGE .
> 
> ...


Pelican cases or other hard shell carry cases with handles are obviously ok. Relax. The new policy - which will undoubtedly be refined on the phrasing states:

"Each bag checked must be packed within a suitable container; plastic/rubber storage containers are prohibited."

A Pelican is not a "plastic storage container". Pelican sells carrying and shipping cases. Seems clear to me what Amtrak wants is to avoid a rubbermaid or cheap storage container wrapped in bungee cords or a rope to keep it closed.


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## Acela150 (Aug 9, 2012)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> I just called


With all due respect. I'm kind of curious to know why everyone calls about new policies once they are posted. That was most likely posted today or yesterday. So they most likely don't know much. I've yet to call about the new refund policy. I will call after work today. Give the poor people a chance to learn about the policy. I would be annoyed to no end if people kept calling me about something I just learned about or hadn't heard about.


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## EMDF9A (Aug 9, 2012)

Acela150 said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > I just called
> ...


Well, perhaps it is because AMTRAK is notorious for not knowing policy.. old or new... but most companies provide in-service and training for their front line staff BEFORE implementing a policy and letting the general public know. AMTRAK doesnt seem to follow the conventional wisdom.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2012)

On the one hand Amtrak seems to be shooting themselves in the foot with more and more focus on fees and restrictions such as these changes to their baggage policy. I travel light. One carry-on and I'm done. And yet even I find these new rules of questionable benefit in the grande scheme of things. Was Amtrak really hurting as a result of their luggage services? On the other hand Amtrak is under more and more political scrutiny by the day and are at risk of losing more and more funding as the anti-rail chorus continues to grow in size and power. I guess when your back is against the wall you have to look for additional revenue whenever and wherever you can manage to find it. It sucks to think that the fees and restrictions will probably only increase further over time as Amtrak is forced to follow the US airline model for cost recovery.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 9, 2012)

Even if the worst-case guesses for the actual meaning of this policy are correct - and at this point it's all just guesses - AMTK staff hasn't been briefed yet --

Even if -- So what? Amtrak has to keep up with the competition -- if that competition is air -- then rail has a natural cost advantage -- because on rail the weight of baggage costs very little to carry - don't have to lift the 120 pound/per pax 5-6 miles high.

So two free checked bags seems like a very rational answer to what the airlines have been doing. The rail passenger gets for free what the airlines now take $50 for -- makes the rail advantage clearer to passengers with lots of luggage who are just now getting used to all those airline add-on fees.

And having the policy does something to defuse the anti-amtrak congress-critturs -- "So - the airlines have been raising baggage fees - we'll put in a cost-based and really competitive fee structure that will cost 95% of our current passengers nothing, zero -- and will look like a real good deal to those people who are accustomed to flying but are considering alternatives.

Looks like a very reasonable policy to me. -- But -- yeah -- nobody knows yet what it really means


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## Anderson (Aug 9, 2012)

Ok, I get the checked bag fees going up. I don't think there had been an increase on that front in a while (at _least_ since 2008, probably before), so I'll concede that a bump there was likely in order just to cover inflation. I can also get reducing the checked baggage allowance from 3 to 2 to at least some extent, though I don't like where that's going. What has me scratching my head is reducing the "payable" allowance from 3 to 2 as well.


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## Aaron (Aug 9, 2012)

Anderson said:


> What has me scratching my head is reducing the "payable" allowance from 3 to 2 as well.


I wonder if it's possible that the combined effect of these changes would reduce baggage load down to the point where some routes could drop the dedicated baggage cars and switch to coach/baggage cars? Even if that's not the primary motivation behind making the changes, I wonder if that could have influenced it?

Pure wild speculation on my part, of course.


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## Anderson (Aug 9, 2012)

Aaron said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > What has me scratching my head is reducing the "payable" allowance from 3 to 2 as well.
> ...


That I could believe, though I don't know how they are on capacity versus demand. It's also plausible that there's been a serious enough uptick in LD traffic over the last five years that "nudging" the limits down is becoming desirable. The Silver Service (Star, Meteor, _and_ Palmetto) and CONO have both seen ridership increases in the 33% range since 2006, and a few others have seen ridership jump by around 20% as of FY11.

Your thought actually makes me wonder why they didn't order more bag-dorms and less full baggage cars; absent actual information on checked baggage loads, I can't help but wonder if a few Superliner trains (Sunset Limited, Texas Eagle, and CONO in particular) couldn't "make do" with a bag-dorm to free up space in the Transdorm for another 8-10 roomette passengers. The same actually applies to the Twilight Shoreliner IMHO (though that might require altering the bed situation in the bag-dorm or selling "single occupancy roomettes"...revenue space is revenue space, after all.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Aug 9, 2012)

afigg said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > I just called and asked about
> ...


I am aware of this .. I own 4 cases  its All I use !

what is clear to a you and me ( and yes any reasonable person would agree with you ))

is as I Just proved by caling NOT 100% clear to "them "( staff) so far I would say 30% (#2)Really were aware of said rule and was aware how to properly use it ...

#1 was clearly Aware of the new policy and still Mis-understood it .. sattistics are a big part of my life.

If i have just One bad apple in 3 then its not looking good... ( yea I really IF was doing a Real study call 100 times .)

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> Even if the worst-case guesses for the actual meaning of this policy are correct - and at this point it's all just guesses - AMTK staff hasn't been briefed yet --


NW cannonball

I disagree ...

Any well ran company will tell there staff way ahead of any Public release .

perhaps I need to be a policy writer As I am aware of SO many things that most Wont catch .

: no totes or containers that are obviously not real luggage will be permitted .

* then list examples of a YES and a NO

Oh Yeeeeaaa the Airlines do this ! with pritty photos ! so any fool-on-the-hill can understand them .

not some poorly wrote one liner .


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## VentureForth (Aug 9, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> It's getting more like the airlines!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I swear - some of the points brought up here are flat out silly. the_traveller, I know you like to use Amtrak a lot. I know you like to travel. But if you are moving frequently and using Amtrak for your moves, I still think you'll find a bargain in their new policy vs what everyone else charges to move your stuff - even the cheapest U Haul trailer....

So long as they can remain competitive, I'm all for revenue generation - especially when it comes to value-added options. I used to love checking just a small duffle bag on an airline because then I could roam around the airport unencumbered. But now, I travel with a carry on only - even if the company is paying for the trip - because the fees are ridiculous and I can manage without the service.

Adapt, or choose to pay.


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## MattW (Aug 9, 2012)

Baggage isn't the only thing they've altered. They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2: It seems Amtrak was the last sane holdout aside from intercity buses.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> So long as they can remain competitive, I'm all for revenue generation - especially when it comes to value-added options. I used to love checking just a small duffle bag on an airline because then I could roam around the airport unencumbered. But now, I travel with a carry on only - even if the company is paying for the trip - because the fees are ridiculous and I can manage without the service.


My guess is that this change will create only the most minor of revenue benefits for Amtrak as most folks will follow your lead and simply carry aboard most of their luggage as they become more familiar with the airline-like policies Amtrak is implementing. In theory Amtrak could use the extra room for additional freight revenue, but without multiple daily services along their LD network I would not expect much in the way of new interest from conventional shippers.



MattW said:


> Baggage isn't the only thing they've altered. They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2: It seems Amtrak was the last sane holdout aside from intercity buses.


The TSA is already on record as stating they want to get more and more involved with passenger rail and bus transit. How much do you want to bet this is a precursor to additional TSA involvement and standardization? These changes have been in the cards for years now. We can run from the TSA all we want but they'll simply follow us wherever we go. Until and unless we demand our freedoms back they'll just keep on chipping away at them.


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## E Runs (Aug 9, 2012)

I understand the first inclination to any change is to complain but really, I'm skeptical that 95% of people need more than 2 full size suitcases and 1 carry on for their trip. The updated policy seems very fair.

The refund policy hasn't changed, it's finally being enforced as written.


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## yarrow (Aug 9, 2012)

MattW said:


> They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2:


so, i'm not supposed to take my leatherman tool to make repairs on loose and rattling parts of my roomette anymore?


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2012)

E Runs said:


> I understand the first inclination to any change is to complain but really, I'm skeptical that 95% of people need more than 2 full size suitcases and 1 carry on for their trip. The updated policy seems very fair.


I realize that to you this change is of no concern, but that's exactly how it started with the airlines as well. A reasonably sounding limit was eventually replaced with a slightly less reasonable limit and on and on until finally _every single bag_ came with a charge.



E Runs said:


> The refund policy hasn't changed, it's finally being enforced as written.


Where was it previously written that refunds for sleeper tickets require fifteen days advance notice prior to departure?


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## Peter KG6LSE (Aug 9, 2012)

Texas Sunset .

The chipping away at bags

And the chipping away of rights by TSA .

Sounds like a pattern to me

Ill bet legroom goes next !



E Runs said:


> I understand the first inclination to any change is to complain but really, I'm skeptical that 95% of people need more than 2 full size suitcases and 1 carry on for their trip.


Perhaps, but to those whom for Years relied on those relaxed bag limits Its gonna be a shocker !.

I have Yet to hear of a full bag car .


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 9, 2012)

E Runs said:


> I understand the first inclination to any change is to complain but really, I'm skeptical that 95% of people need more than 2 full size suitcases and 1 carry on for their trip. The updated policy seems very fair.
> 
> The refund policy hasn't changed, it's finally being enforced as written.


Good point! My policy when I travel by common carrier is to limit what I need to 2 carry ons and in the case of Amtrak, perhaps an additional very small "snack sack" that will diminish as the trip progresses. I do not like to be held hostage by luggage and want to be able to comfortably carry everything without assistance.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 9, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> E Runs said:
> 
> 
> > The refund policy hasn't changed, it's finally being enforced as written.
> ...


And that Acela Business Class and reserved coach reservations require 24 hour notice prior to departure.

I'm sure Amtrak thinks it is just enforcing a previously unenforced policy as well, but enough other stuff has changed to make that position invalid.


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## E Runs (Aug 9, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Where was it previously written that refunds for sleeper tickets require fifteen days advance notice prior to departure?


I sit corrected on that, as well as the stipulations PRR 60 mentioned.

Peter KG6LSE, I agree those who have benefited from the "old" baggage policy will have some "sticker shock", but again I wonder what percentage of passangers that is? If only 10-50% of available baggage car space is used I'd hope Amtrak would look at replacing that dead non-revenue space with a coach/baggage.


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## jb64 (Aug 9, 2012)

yarrow said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2:
> ...



LOL!!!!


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2012)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> I have Yet to hear of a full bag car .


That is what I wonder about. If the baggage cars weren't full why did they decrease the max from 6 to 4? They could just charge the $20/each for bags 5 and 6 and bring in more revenue.


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## Donctor (Aug 9, 2012)

MattW said:


> Baggage isn't the only thing they've altered. They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2: It seems Amtrak was the last sane holdout aside from intercity buses.


Needing to bring knives doesn't seem like the sanest thing to me :lol:


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## NW cannonball (Aug 9, 2012)

Donctor said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Baggage isn't the only thing they've altered. They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2: It seems Amtrak was the last sane holdout aside from intercity buses.
> ...


But my daughter -- one of the reasons she takes the train is she can have knitting needles on the train. To pass the time.

Where she works knives over 5 inches are considered to be weapons -- shorter are tools and exempt. That's US Navy policy.

When I fly I (obviously) don't carry any sharp instrument. But a paring knife is useful on many voyages.


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## jis (Aug 9, 2012)

Donctor said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Baggage isn't the only thing they've altered. They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2: It seems Amtrak was the last sane holdout aside from intercity buses.
> ...


Without a knife how would one eat ones brownbagged steak from Morton's Steakhouse? :lol:


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## NW cannonball (Aug 9, 2012)

jis said:


> Donctor said:
> 
> 
> > MattW said:
> ...


Yeah - them some really tough steaks


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## MattW (Aug 9, 2012)

Leatherman is kind of what I was thinking of too. It could be infinitely useful. But the new policy if enforced would block people from having them at their end destination entirely when using corridor trains. Now admittedly, Amtrak doesn't have metal detectors (yet) and even the random bag inspections don't inspect the person but that doesn't mean if someone sees your TOOL, you won't be watching your train's markers from a police car at a grade crossing.


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## the_traveler (Aug 9, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> 1344517377[/url]' post='386000']
> 
> 
> the_traveler said:
> ...


I don't move a lot at all!



But I know some do use Amtrak to move. I was maybe thinking of moving this fall, but it's hard to move much with a limit of 4 bags only!

And every time I've seen the inside of a baggage car or even a bag/coach, it's been mostly empty! Now, I think it will be more empty.

As far as your "U-Haul" comment, I don't think you can check them on Amtrak! As far as I know, you or someone else has to drive it. I (and many others) do not drive. And I'm sure if you poll other AU members, you'll find more than a few who do not drive either.


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## SarahZ (Aug 9, 2012)

Two bags per person (plus a purse/laptop) is still extremely generous. I think they're mostly trying to dissuade people from moving via Amtrak. I honestly cannot imagine a trip that would require us to bring more than four suitcases.

Everyone complains about Amtrak losing money day in and day out. Asking those people who are basically trying to avoid shipping fees to pay a $20 baggage fee for two additional bags isn't a big deal, and it's still cheaper than sending those bags through UPS/etc.

I don't see this as a "gateway" to the TSA or anything of the sort. I honestly think the issue is people who abuse the system (especially since they added the clause about "no plastic totes") and Amtrak trying to recoup some lost revenue. This is one of the easiest ways to do it since raising ticket prices and food prices would cause everyone to freak out. I don't think quite as many people are going to freak out about not being able to bring a third suitcase on a trip.


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## Grandpa D (Aug 9, 2012)

yarrow said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > They also now have a blanket ban on knives, except sheathed in checked baggage. :angry2:
> ...


You'll just have to get by with a roll of Duct Tape. 

(That's what we carry.)


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## fairviewroad (Aug 9, 2012)

MattW said:


> but that doesn't mean if someone sees your TOOL, you won't be watching your train's markers from a police car at a grade crossing.


Must ... resist ... snarky ... off-color ... comment... :giggle:


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## jb64 (Aug 9, 2012)

fairviewroad said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > but that doesn't mean if someone sees your TOOL, you won't be watching your train's markers from a police car at a grade crossing.
> ...



Even funnier!

Seriously, though, I'm with Sorcha in that how many people really check that many bags? I can't see this affecting many people except those using Amtrak to move.


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## E Runs (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Two bags per person (plus a purse/laptop) is still extremely generous. I think they're mostly trying to dissuade people from moving via Amtrak. I honestly cannot imagine a trip that would require us to bring more than four suitcases.
> 
> *Everyone complains about Amtrak losing money day in and day out. Asking those people who are basically trying to avoid shipping fees to pay a $20 baggage fee for two additional bags isn't a big deal, and it's still cheaper than sending those bags through UPS/etc.*
> 
> I don't see this as a "gateway" to the TSA or anything of the sort. I honestly think the issue is people who abuse the system (especially since they added the clause about "no plastic totes") and Amtrak trying to recoup some lost revenue. This is one of the easiest ways to do it since raising ticket prices and food prices would cause everyone to freak out. I don't think quite as many people are going to freak out about not being able to bring a third suitcase on a trip.


Bang on.


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## Anderson (Aug 9, 2012)

E Runs said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > Where was it previously written that refunds for sleeper tickets require fifteen days advance notice prior to departure?
> ...


I tend to agree here. Granted, on most trains it's going to be a bag-dorm instead (since those with checked baggage are often also LD overnight trains), but I agree. As I mentioned in my earlier post...if they're going to do this, they should at least look at altering the Viewliner II order to swap out 10-20 baggage cars for bag-dorms.


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## eagle8421 (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2012)

eagle8421 said:


> I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!


Maybe knife owners just need to form another no-compromise political hatchet group like today's NRA and we'll finally get our multi-functional pocket tools back.  Plus the option of carrying axes, machetes, flails, and morning stars for when the apple decides to fight back.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 9, 2012)

They might be trying to crack down on frivolous lawsuits with luggage. Someone checks a $10 rubbermaid container from wally world and it gets damaged,broken during the trip and they sue amtrak for damaging their luggage.


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## eagle8421 (Aug 9, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> eagle8421 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!
> ...


Well to me a pocket knive is not a weapon. But different country, different laws 

Is this rule already in effect or will it come also on the 10th of september?


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## yarrow (Aug 9, 2012)

eagle8421 said:


> I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!


since the terrorist attacks of 9/11 you haven't been able to carry a pocket knife or multi-tool onto an airplane. i believe the terrorists carried on box cutters. evidently this policy is being extended to amtrak. i don't think many of us think it will be a particularly effective preventive measure.


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## Anderson (Aug 9, 2012)

yarrow said:


> eagle8421 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!
> ...


No, because any terrorist with half a brain cell will simply board at Newark or Metropark instead of New York Penn or Philly 30th Street. Or _maybe_ you'll get lucky and they'll just shoot up a higher-density NJT train or open fire in a Metra gallery car instead.


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## eagle8421 (Aug 9, 2012)

Anderson said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > eagle8421 said:
> ...


That's the point, you can NEVER guarantee 100 percent of security. I just want to citize Benjamin Franklin: They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. But I think, now it gets too much into politics.


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## acelafan (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Two bags per person (plus a purse/laptop) is still extremely generous. I think they're mostly trying to dissuade people from moving via Amtrak. I honestly cannot imagine a trip that would require us to bring more than four suitcases.
> 
> Everyone complains about Amtrak losing money day in and day out. Asking those people who are basically trying to avoid shipping fees to pay a $20 baggage fee for two additional bags isn't a big deal, and it's still cheaper than sending those bags through UPS/etc.
> 
> I don't see this as a "gateway" to the TSA or anything of the sort. I honestly think the issue is people who abuse the system (especially since they added the clause about "no plastic totes") and Amtrak trying to recoup some lost revenue. This is one of the easiest ways to do it since raising ticket prices and food prices would cause everyone to freak out. I don't think quite as many people are going to freak out about not being able to bring a third suitcase on a trip.


I agree with you. Amtrak has to make due with less federal funding for its operating subsidy so they are going to have to rein in a few of their liberal policies and/or start enforcing rules. Boardman has mentioned this on multiple occasions in internal correspondence and in Amtrak Ink.

I don't think the $20 baggage fee for more than 2 bags is *that* bad when you consider what the airlines charge. I have no idea what the baggage limits/charges are on buses.

Yes some people like to move via Amtrak but the reality is, is Amtrak supposed to be a moving company for free of charge? I would argue no....even if the baggage cars are mostly empty. They need to raise money somehow in environment of reduced funding that is probably not going to get any better any time soon. At least they are not charging AGR point redemptions according to the open market price....yet!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2012)

acelafan said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone complains about Amtrak losing money day in and day out. Asking those people who are basically trying to avoid shipping fees to pay a $20 baggage fee for two additional bags isn't a big deal...I don't see this as a "gateway" to the TSA or anything of the sort.
> ...


Maybe these new fees and restrictions will be a revenue goldmine for Amtrak. Or maybe previously growing demand will begin to soften as Amtrak begins to follow the lead of our cherished airlines. Maybe the TSA is just joking when they say they have their eye on surface based mass transit. Or maybe they're not.


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## Paulus (Aug 9, 2012)

The truly weird thing is the 45 minutes required for checked baggage. I'm having a hard time seeing that as really being justified.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Aug 9, 2012)

Guest said:


> Peter KG6LSE said:
> 
> 
> > I have Yet to hear of a full bag car .
> ...


first 3 are free ! make it a service mark! .. then No 4 5 6 charge $30 eatch.

slogan like that would kick South west in the ......... real good .

If they have the room then I say make it more lax then before ..	the Things that they have going for them . Dining , AC in eatch seat . and bags galore should be capitalized on !.

Or heck put a total Lb and Ln Inch limit per person not per bag ..

then you pay per Inch over that

120 Lin inches per pax? 50 Lbs max per box .

Some of the rolling bags I have seen are not gonna fit the new rules ..


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## afigg (Aug 9, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Maybe these new fees and restrictions will be a revenue goldmine for Amtrak. Or maybe previously growing demand will begin to soften as Amtrak begins to follow the lead of our cherished airlines. Maybe the TSA is just joking when they say they have their eye on surface based mass transit. Or maybe they're not.


I doubt if Amtrak will generate much revenue from the increased baggage fees for more than 2 bags per person. Has to be a pretty small percentage of passengers on the trains with baggage cars who check more than 2 bags through. There is nothing I see in the financial statements about the revenue from baggage check fees. The policy change will generate a small amount of additional revenue, but probably more of a small copper mine than a gold mine.

There may have been complaints from the crew and station personnel about the occasional person who checked 6 large bags which slowed down getting to other customers and increased the dwell time at the station. If Amtrak wanted to make more money, they could have stayed with a 5 or 6 bag limit with the first 2 bags free.

Another possibility is that with the baggage-dorms coming with a 1/2 car or less capacity which will also have a bike rack further reducing capacity is a factor in changing the policy to a maximum of 4 bags each.


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## Aaron (Aug 9, 2012)

Now that I think about this some more, I'm _not _thinking that this is a way to limit the number of bags on the train. I'm thinking that the extra fees, the reduction in number of bags, and the change to a 45 minute cutoff is a way to limit what's required of station agents. Between these changes and the switch to e-ticketing, Amtrak can conceivably reach a tipping point in certain stations where they can go from 4 agents down to 3, or from 3 down to 2, or from 2 agents down to a single agent on duty.

In almost any business, your labor is your greatest cost, and I'm betting that the primary reasoning behind this is as one part of an effort to reduce labor costs.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 9, 2012)

I bet REP Mica is the reason behind this.


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## VentureForth (Aug 9, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> I bet REP Mica is the reason behind this.


Ugh.


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## Donctor (Aug 9, 2012)

eagle8421 said:


> I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!


A Leatherman is not a knife. It is a multi-purpose tool.


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## yarrow (Aug 9, 2012)

Donctor said:


> eagle8421 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get the point about the knive. Like others said, a leatherman (or in my case a swiss army knive) can be sometimes be really helpfull: fixing things, cut an apple into two, open a bottle and so on... not everyone who has a knive will use it as a weapon!
> ...


try telling that to the tsa. mine certainly contains a knife blade


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## Donctor (Aug 9, 2012)

yarrow said:


> Donctor said:
> 
> 
> > eagle8421 said:
> ...


That conversation would go well.


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## AlanB (Aug 13, 2012)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> I have Yet to hear of a full bag car .


I've seen more than one full baggage car over the years, and this could become even more of a problem with routes using the baggage/dorm cars which will now have only half the room of a normal baggage car.


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## Tommy (Sep 10, 2012)

Well, I found out about this change today, the hard way. I had to pay $10 special item fee (instead of $5) for my bicycle and they had to put it on the next train since my box wasn't taped and ready 45 min before departure-- missed it by 5 min - within the previous 30 min rule. I wouldn't say I'm furious, but I'd mind the fee less if they'd offer a service that doesn't require me to take the bike apart and put it in a box first.


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## fillyjonk (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm wondering if the "no plastic luggage" is to prevent something I saw on the TE several years back: a family was apparently moving, and tried to insist that a tall plastic trash can (packed full of clothing) counted as one of their carry-ons. It took two of them to lift it and it took a lot of time for them to find a place to stow it.

As always, it's the people who bend the rules out of any reasonable proportion that leads to everyone else getting smacked with tougher rules.

I can't see them starting to do things like search carry-ons for knives and such. I could be wrong on that, but I can't see the money being spent for personnel and x-ray machines at all the stations in the country.

It's also Amtrak is saying these things to placate the TSA, but they won't enforce them heavily.


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