# Not the stereotypical rude subway conductor



## CHamilton (Nov 15, 2013)

Making New Connections On A Trapped Subway Train


> Laura Lane met Paquita Williams, a New York City subway conductor, when their train was stopped underground for two hours. ...
> 
> With the power out, Paquita walked the length of the train, comforting nervous passengers. That made a real impression on Laura.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 15, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> Making New Connections On A Trapped Subway Train
> 
> 
> > Laura Lane met Paquita Williams, a New York City subway conductor, when their train was stopped underground for two hours. ...
> ...


 Bet AU Member and New Subway Motorman Petor would perform in a Similar Manner during an Emergency on his Train!


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## me_little_me (Nov 15, 2013)

I was born and raised in the NYC area and used the subways all the time. I don't remember ever seeing a conductor. Is this something they added? Where did they hide before?


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## the_traveler (Nov 15, 2013)

Remember, this was written by a journalist. Since there are usually 2 employees on a subway with one the "driver", the other must be the "conductor"!


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## fairviewroad (Nov 15, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> Remember, this was written by a journalist. Since there are usually 2 employees on a subway with one the "driver", the other must be the "conductor"!


You may want to check with the MTA before you unleash the snark.



> During off-peak hours, when the subway is less crowded, conductors can hold trains that enter the same station at the same time, and passengers can transfer across the platform.





> Most subway lines have a two-person crew – a train operator and a conductor.





> When you ride during non-rush hours, we suggest you ride in the car with the conductor. The conductor's car is usually in the middle of the train.





> Conductors make announcements so you'll know the next stop along the line.





> You can also go to the train's first car (where the train operator is) or the middle car (where the conductor is usually located).


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 15, 2013)

me_little_me said:


> I was born and raised in the NYC area and used the subways all the time. I don't remember ever seeing a conductor. Is this something they added? Where did they hide before?


One rarely sees the conductor on a NYC subway, rather you hear them making PA announcements. Unless you're looking at the conductor's cab when the train pulls into the station you wouldn't notice them, that's where they stay.


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## MattW (Nov 15, 2013)

Side trivia, but if you're watching when they pull into the station, they are required to literally point at a black and white hash-mark sign hanging in the middle of the platform to ensure they've seen it. After seeing a YouTube video about it, I was pleased to see it happen when I visited NYC the second time back in May. It's actually not as silly as it may sound, I use it in my own life to ensure I haven't forgotten something. My campus has gone to ridiculous hang tags for our parking passes rather than simply staying with a small external sticker. Since I can't drive with it hanging, I have it velcroed to my dash, and every time I hang it up, I point at it just like the NYC subway conductors, partly for piece of mind that I haven't forgotten it and partly to ensure I've actually done it.


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## Blackwolf (Nov 19, 2013)

MattW said:


> Side trivia, but if you're watching when they pull into the station, they are required to literally point at a black and white hash-mark sign hanging in the middle of the platform to ensure they've seen it. After seeing a YouTube video about it, I was pleased to see it happen when I visited NYC the second time back in May. It's actually not as silly as it may sound, I use it in my own life to ensure I haven't forgotten something. My campus has gone to ridiculous hang tags for our parking passes rather than simply staying with a small external sticker. Since I can't drive with it hanging, I have it velcroed to my dash, and every time I hang it up, I point at it just like the NYC subway conductors, partly for piece of mind that I haven't forgotten it and partly to ensure I've actually done it.


I think this is the video you mentioned. If so, it is actually quite funny and nicely done. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M


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## fairviewroad (Nov 20, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> I think this is the video you mentioned. If so, it is actually quite funny and nicely done.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M


Agreed, but after watching it I still don't understand that rule. Wouldn't the process of opening and closing the doors at a station kind of prove, _ipso facto,_ that conductors "are paying attention"? Wouldn't having to point at a sign on the wall/ceiling actually divert their attention away from the train/platform?


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## SubwayNut (Nov 20, 2013)

The idea of the zebra striped boards for the C/R (the Conductor riding in the Middle of the train in MTA lingo) to point up at is as a confirmation from the conductor to make sure that the T/O (Train Operator, Engineer, in MTA Lingo) has actually stopped the train at the correct car marker at the front of the station before the conductor actually opens the doors. The Zebra boards in some stations are longer than others because there is more room for error in those stations. Many also have CCTVs beneath stationed on the platforms for the conductors to be able to see around a curve for example while they close the doors.

A few days after that video went viral on YouTube the MTA went as far as to post this on their website about conductors pointing their way to safety at the Zebra stripes.


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## fairviewroad (Nov 20, 2013)

SubwayNut said:


> The idea of the zebra striped boards for the C/R (the Conductor riding in the Middle of the train in MTA lingo) to point up at is as a confirmation from the conductor to make sure that the T/O (Train Operator, Engineer, in MTA Lingo) has actually stopped the train at the correct car marker at the front of the station before the conductor actually opens the doors. The Zebra boards in some stations are longer than others because there is more room for error in those stations. Many also have CCTVs beneath stationed on the platforms for the conductors to be able to see around a curve for example while they close the doors.
> 
> A few days after that video went viral on YouTube the MTA went as far as to post this on their website about conductors pointing their way to safety at the Zebra stripes.


Thanks, that makes sense. I don't recall seeing these in other subways systems. And in many places there aren't conductors at all on heavy-rail

transit. Why does NYC continue to use them?


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## SubwayNut (Nov 21, 2013)

The main reason is the Transit Workers Union is extremely powerful. There are also still some older cars left mainly the R32s on the C train and the scattering of R42s on the J that don't have full width cabs and aren't compatible with OPTO

OPTO was experimented on full car L trains that is the only line with a modern CBTC signalling system a few years back until the Union managed to have enough of an uproar to get an arbitrator to rule they were illegal.

The only lines in New York are Shuttles (Franklin Avenue and Rockaway Park) that use OPTO at all times, the G train during weekends (could be all the time, trains are only 4 cars) and M Night and Weekend Shuttle Trains. A few other lines that become shuttles during late nights also used OPTO.

The 42 Street Shuttle has an operator at each end that switch off between C/R and T/O duties between every run. The one in the back is the conductor going the direction the employee is stationed back and is the train operator going the direction when there stationed in the front.


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## AlanB (Nov 21, 2013)

While all of the above is correct, one other thing that must be considered here is the fact that NYC subways are longer consists than any other system in the US. No other system runs 10 & 11 car trains. I think that the DC Metro is the next longest with 8 car trains, and I'm not sure if their cars aren't also a bit shorter than the NYC subway cars.

But seeing the rear of an 11 car train from the front cab can be an issue. And there is a certain level of concern regarding the ability of the motorman being able to see the rear cars so as to ensure that no one is being dragged because they got caught in a door. There is also the issue of having more employees on a train that can carry a few thousand people in case of emergency.

Sure, the MTA would love to save the salary costs of all those conductors, but things are never simple.


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## RailRide (Nov 21, 2013)

Before this policy was adopted, I was witness to one of the reasons it's a good idea.

Riding a #2 train uptown in the Bronx, we arrived at a station on the end of a downhill section a bit fast (or braked a little late), the result being the train rolled about a half car length past the platform.

An elevated platform. (Burke Ave, for those familiar with the system)

I know the motorman saw it coming before it happened because he sounded the crew buzzer before the lead car passed the end of the platform. A long buzzer from the motorman is a signal to the conductor not to open the doors. This signal sounds in all the cab compartments on the train, in this case a set of Redbird R29's with a cab on each end of each car.

The conductor failed to acknowledge the signal and opened the doors as soon as the train came to a stop, with the predictable result of the few standees at the front half of the car getting a wide-open view of thin air through the open doors, 30-or-so-feet above the pavement. Luckily no one was leaning on the doors when they opened, or "there might've been a bit of a delay".

The newest generation trains augument this safety procedure by requiring the motorman to unlock the doors before the conductor can open them.

---PCJ


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## Blackwolf (Nov 21, 2013)

AlanB said:


> While all of the above is correct, one other thing that must be considered here is the fact that NYC subways are longer consists than any other system in the US. No other system runs 10 & 11 car trains. I think that the DC Metro is the next longest with 8 car trains, and I'm not sure if their cars aren't also a bit shorter than the NYC subway cars.
> 
> But seeing the rear of an 11 car train from the front cab can be an issue. And there is a certain level of concern regarding the ability of the motorman being able to see the rear cars so as to ensure that no one is being dragged because they got caught in a door. There is also the issue of having more employees on a train that can carry a few thousand people in case of emergency.
> 
> Sure, the MTA would love to save the salary costs of all those conductors, but things are never simple.


Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) runs 10 car trains every single day of the calender year, and has been doing so for the last 4 decades. They can't run longer trains due to platform length; 10 cars fill an entire station platform. Granted, they don't need conductors because the system was designed without them. The trains run on 100% computer-operated central dispatch; the human operator only stands in as a set of eyes and closes the doors after visual inspection (the computer opens the doors automatically.)


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## NW cannonball (Nov 24, 2013)

Compare - Japan Rail East Yamanote line (busiest non-subway line in Tokyo, maybe in world - ??) - run 11-car trains on 240 second headway 04:30-01:10 every day, 150 second headway busy times. They still have employee in last car signal clear before departing any of 30 stations. Daily ridership this one 30km circle connector route 10x all BART routes, 2/3 all New York subways.

Human intervention on automated systems - slowly getting less necessary - think elevators, compare buses. Just thinking.


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## Nathanael (Nov 25, 2013)

The problem of making it possible for the motorman to see the length of the platform and see the back car is an interesting one... which has largely been solved. Look carefully at any London Underground station -- many are sharply curved, on steep slopes, etc. There's a bunch of cameras and mirrors designed to give the motorman the ability to see.

NYC Subway conductors, unfortunately, normally hide in their cabs and are invisible, while doing nothing the motorman couldn't. They really are a piece of union featherbedding at this point. I'm grateful that one of them was helpful in an emergency, but I question whether that was even allowed by the rules, according to the rules I've read...


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## AlanB (Nov 25, 2013)

Nathanael said:


> The problem of making it possible for the motorman to see the length of the platform and see the back car is an interesting one... which has largely been solved. Look carefully at any London Underground station -- many are sharply curved, on steep slopes, etc. There's a bunch of cameras and mirrors designed to give the motorman the ability to see.


This is NY City. We already do have stations with such equipment. And it is often subject to vandalism, unfortunately.



Nathanael said:


> NYC Subway conductors, unfortunately, normally hide in their cabs and are invisible, while doing nothing the motorman couldn't. They really are a piece of union featherbedding at this point.


Actually even in the newer cars they permit something to happen that otherwise couldn't happen; that is for the train to start moving as soon as the doors are closed. If the motorman were closing the doors, there would be a pause as he/she sits down. An even longer pause if they have to walk back across the cab. They also could not stick their head back out the window to make sure that no one is being dragged; as per MTA rules.

And in the older cars, without a conductor there would be no announcements, as you can't keep your hand on the controller and stand up, push the button, and speak into the mike to make an announcement. Not to mention that even if one were able to perform such a trick, your eyes would now be facing the tunnel wall and not the road ahead.


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