# All meals not included (1st 2 pax only) (corrected - post 25)



## Michigan Mom (Jan 19, 2014)

Found out today. while perusing redemption possibilities, that "all" meals are no longer included for AGR sleeper car redemptions. The agent told me this is a new policy. Meals are included for the first two pax only. So if you are a party of 3 or 4 booking a BR or FR, you would be paying for the 3rd and 4th person in the diner. I'm assuming if you booked 2 roomettes instead, since each is a separate redemption, and it was 4 people, all 4 meals would be included. Didn't think to ask for clarification, though. Anyway it's just something to keep in mind, that the meals over 2-3 days would have to be budgeted for, if you were thinking they'd all be included (sans tips).


----------



## SarahZ (Jan 19, 2014)

In the case of the Family Room, they should still include four since the room has four beds and is designed for two adults and two children. I can't imagine they would deny the kids (or parents, or whoever) a meal when that room is clearly designed for four people. The agent was probably mistaken about that one.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

Not true.

Meals are included for everyone ticketed in the room.

The "new" policy is that you can only book AGR tickets up to the "recommended" capacity of the room as found on Amtrak.com, not the max capacity of the room as found in the Blue Book.


----------



## amamba (Jan 19, 2014)

RyanS said:


> Not true.
> 
> Meals are included for everyone ticketed in the room.
> 
> The "new" policy is that you can only book AGR tickets up to the "recommended" capacity of the room as found on Amtrak.com, not the max capacity of the room as found in the Blue Book.


I would like this if I was on the app.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 19, 2014)

Sarah, maybe it was an error, but the agent couldn't have been more clear when she told me that booking an award for 3 people in the Family Bedroom (which is sold for 4 people) would include 2 meals on an AGR redemption. She said this policy is brand new and applies to award bookings only; of course if you pay the fare then meals are included for everyone in the room. We'd have 2 adults, since my son is no longer a half-fare, and one child. So in my situation the adult meals would be included and for my daughter, I would be purchasing whatever her selection was, from the diner menu. I'd be happy if this information is incorrect... but if this is the new policy, I'd rather know going in so I can plan for it.


----------



## SarahZ (Jan 19, 2014)

Michigan Mom said:


> Sarah, maybe it was an error, but the agent couldn't have been more clear when *she told me that booking an award for 3 people in the Family Bedroom (which is sold for 4 people) would include 2 meals on an AGR redemption.* She said this policy is brand new and applies to award bookings only; of course if you pay the fare then meals are included for everyone in the room. We'd have 2 adults, since my son is no longer a half-fare, and one child. So in my situation the adult meals would be included and for my daughter, I would be purchasing whatever her selection was, from the diner menu. I'd be happy if this information is incorrect... but if this is the new policy, I'd rather know going in so I can plan for it.


Then she was probably brand new, because you can't even book the Family Bedroom with AGR points. So, she was doubly wrong.


----------



## Anderson (Jan 19, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah, maybe it was an error, but the agent couldn't have been more clear when *she told me that booking an award for 3 people in the Family Bedroom (which is sold for 4 people) would include 2 meals on an AGR redemption.* She said this policy is brand new and applies to award bookings only; of course if you pay the fare then meals are included for everyone in the room. We'd have 2 adults, since my son is no longer a half-fare, and one child. So in my situation the adult meals would be included and for my daughter, I would be purchasing whatever her selection was, from the diner menu. I'd be happy if this information is incorrect... but if this is the new policy, I'd rather know going in so I can plan for it.
> ...


Also, what are the odds of the OBS actually knowing the policy, let alone enforcing it? Since you don't need to present your ticket in the diner (just know your room/car), the diner has no way of checking except asking (which I _highly_ doubt they're too interested in bothering with at every table). Unless/until the diner gets some far, far better technology for processing this sort of paperwork, this is going to be a functions-on-paper-only policy.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

SarahZ said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah, maybe it was an error, but the agent couldn't have been more clear when *she told me that booking an award for 3 people in the Family Bedroom (which is sold for 4 people) would include 2 meals on an AGR redemption.* She said this policy is brand new and applies to award bookings only; of course if you pay the fare then meals are included for everyone in the room. We'd have 2 adults, since my son is no longer a half-fare, and one child. So in my situation the adult meals would be included and for my daughter, I would be purchasing whatever her selection was, from the diner menu. I'd be happy if this information is incorrect... but if this is the new policy, I'd rather know going in so I can plan for it.
> ...


I'm pretty sure you can book it at the regular bedroom rate.
Still, "A CSR told me" has pretty much nothing to do with actual policy as we've seen time and time again. It's a shame the people in the call center seem to be so clueless.


----------



## SarahZ (Jan 19, 2014)

RyanS said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Michigan Mom said:
> ...


Really? That's interesting (and nice, since that room is pretty big). I wonder why they don't put it on the "Redeem" page? That's where I checked since I wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind.

https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/redeem


----------



## June the Coach Rider (Jan 19, 2014)

There is no way of the dining car staff to know whether you purchased your tickets or are using points. All you do is list your car and room number. I doubt that this can be something that will last for along time as it discriminates against their own reward points and loyal customers. I could understand if it was a bedroom or roomette, but not the family room.


----------



## brentrain17 (Jan 19, 2014)

what is "The Blue Book"?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

The informal name for the Service Standards Manual - "The Rulebook" for what happens onboard.

Here's the relevant passage:


----------



## AlanB (Jan 19, 2014)

Sarah,

The Family room can be booked on points at the Bedroom rates. The H-room is bookable on points at the Roomette rates.

Michigan Mom,

AGR headquarters made it quite clear last year that one could only book awards up to the recommended capacity of the room which as noted by Ryan is different than the maximum; so I can't imagine that they would suddenly change the rules again. This sounds like an agent who isn't informed of the rules.

But the meals go with the room, so you should get 4 meals in the family room.


----------



## SarahZ (Jan 19, 2014)

AlanB said:


> Sarah,
> 
> The Family room can be booked on points at the Bedroom rates. The H-room is bookable on points at the Roomette rates.


Thanks, Alan. I saw the blurb about being able to book the H-room at the roomette rate but couldn't find a blurb about booking the F-room at the bedroom rate.

I stand corrected.


----------



## amamba (Jan 19, 2014)

The AGR Insider did confirm that the family bedroom was still bookable at the bedroom rate when they made this change. Folks, really I love AU but if you continue to have questions, PM the AGR Insider (Anthony) at FlyerTalk.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 19, 2014)

Rest assured that it is possible to book the FR with AGR points. That wasn't a problem. I agree that it doesn't make sense that the FR would only provide meals for 2 and the rest would be paid; even though it sounds like the agent may have confused policies, on the whole the call center has always been more than helpful, informative and polite, so I'm not going to slam them. If we do take this trip, and I find out that this really is a change in policy, I'll report back here, otherwise let's just assume it was wrong information.

Ryan, I'd really appreciate it if you just didn't reply to my posts. I find you exceptionally toxic and I promise to extend you the same courtesy. Ignoring is of limited usefulness since I still have to see your language quoted by other people.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks for admitting to essentially being a stalker.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

I'm not quite sure how replying to posts that you make on a public discussion board makes me a stalker, but whatever.

If you don't like being told you're wrong, maybe The Internet isn't for you.

You'll also note that I told Sarah she was wrong in this very thread and she managed to handle it with grace and class. Perhaps you can do the same.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 19, 2014)

The Internet is definitely for you, since ill mannered cowards frequently hide there. In your limited world, grace and class is defined as someone who doesn't call you out on what a jerk you are. I am calling you out. And since you are so confused, let me explain. You're a stalker because I've repeatedly asked you to leave me alone, and most normal people would respect that. Certainly if anyone here had the honesty to say that to me, I wouldn't be responding to their posts, out of respect for their wishes. I don't expect everyone to like me or agree with me. I do expect that a request to refrain from harrassment would be honored. The fact that it is a "public" forum is irrelevant. It doesn't give you the right to do what you want, and bother who you want. You may think that it does... but in that aspect, you sir, are very wrong. Why don't you just admit that, with grace and class.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

What exactly have I done to draw this kind of fury from you?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 19, 2014)

(Sorry for the guest post, I'm logged into my son's account doing some maintenance)



Michigan Mom said:


> The fact that it is a "public" forum is irrelevant. It doesn't give you the right to do what you want, and bother who you want.


Sorry, but I've got to address this as well. The fact that it is a public forum is very relevant. I'm not sending you private messages or emails, I'm not calling you, I'm not showing up at your house or place of employment. That stuff is stalking.

When you post something on a public forum like this, you're opening yourself up for replies from anyone. I was here years before you, and I'll be here years after you're a distant memory. I've met a great number of the regular posters here and consider them friends, and speak to many of them through other channels. This is my *home*. It is hands down the FINEST Amtrak-related forum on the internet, due to the hard work of the staff here - none of which have expressed any issues with my posts towards you in this thread or any others. If they do, I'll gladly accept any guidance or direction that they give me. It's their playground, and I will always respect them and play by their rules.

If you have a problem with the content of my posts, it is just that. Your problem to deal with. I don't go out of my way to reply to you and more or any less than any other poster here. If you have a question about something, I'll answer it. If you post something that's factually incorrect, I'll correct you. When you post here or any other site, that's what you're signing up for. If you can't handle that, the decision to post lies solely with you.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 20, 2014)

Please let's leave personal feelings off the train, or at least offline. Thank you.


----------



## jis (Jan 20, 2014)

What I am curious about is how Amtrak would implement the alleged new policy. I think they are incapable of enforcing it since the right people do not have the information available to them in normal course of working. Also who would get to choose which two and when? It is this fact and the sense that it seems to be an enormous amount of additional pain for very little gain/savings, that leads me to believe that this might be another case of clueless reservation agent, a not unheard of phenomenon on Amtrak.

But as stated by others, the definitive fact on this can be found by IM-ing AGR Insider on Flyertalk.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 20, 2014)

First of all, thanks to the people who wrote to tell me I am not alone in my reactions. Much appreciated. As for "Ryan", he is not worth getting chest pains over, but if I wanted to, it would be very easy to attack the substance of many of his posts, especially when he ventures into straw man territory. It's enough to know that other people feel the same way. Second, and more on point, I do need to close the original loop and provide updated information. I called AGR back and asked for clarification. As Alan indicated, the change in policy is all about capacity of the rooms. An AGR redemption includes meals up to capacity; so in the example of the Family Room redemption, where the capacity is 2 adults/2 children, that's how many many meals are included. For the people who asked how Amtrak would even enforce the originally asked about policy change, in my opinion that wouldn't be all that difficult; i can envision numerous ways how that would be done. It's a good question, though. My main objective was knowing if all meals were included, so I could plan accordingly. I hope this helps clear things up and I'm truly sorry if my original post caused any concerns; my intent was to share information and obtain clarification.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jan 20, 2014)

What is your problem MM? Ryan replied to your posts as anyone else on AU would have. Why do you think he's stalking you?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 20, 2014)

Actually that's exactly what I said in the third post.



RyanS said:


> Not true.
> 
> Meals are included for everyone ticketed in the room.
> 
> The "new" policy is that you can only book AGR tickets up to the "recommended" capacity of the room as found on Amtrak.com, not the max capacity of the room as found in the Blue Book.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 20, 2014)

Michigan Mom said:


> For the people who asked how Amtrak would even enforce the originally asked about policy change, in my opinion that wouldn't be all that difficult; i can envision numerous ways how that would be done.


Maybe you can explain some of them, since the information needed doesn't appear on the tickets.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 20, 2014)

This thread is locked pending staff review.


----------



## AlanB (Jan 21, 2014)

And now after a bit of cleaning, this topic is once again open for posting. Please let me remind everyone to be civil.


----------



## jis (Jan 21, 2014)

RyanS said:


> Michigan Mom said:
> 
> 
> > For the people who asked how Amtrak would even enforce the originally asked about policy change, in my opinion that wouldn't be all that difficult; i can envision numerous ways how that would be done.
> ...


It would be nice indeed if at least one of the numerous ways envisioned would be described in detail so we can have a technical discussion about the practical feasibility of it. Thanks.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jan 21, 2014)

jis said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> > Michigan Mom said:
> ...


One way I could see is to provide a ticket scanner to the LSA. Arriving passengers from sleepers would show their e-ticket (either paper or display) when being seated. The LSA scan would pull up the PNR and identify the number of people on the reservation. Free meal forms would be left for that number of people.


----------



## jis (Jan 21, 2014)

Yep. It still seems like a lot of additional bureaucracy for very little gain. In effect the cost of some number of children's meals will be recovered, and that too only for AGR travelers. Hopefully it will cover the cost of LSA training additional scanners and all that. 

I wonder if the LSA unions would want to have higher salaries since they'd be required to partake in more skilled tasks? Juuust kidding


----------



## Ryan (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm not sure how that would solve the problem, unless there was a flag on the PNR that this was an AGR redemption to signal the LSA that 2 meals were free, not the 3 or 4 that were ticketed into the room.

MM's initial contention was that there would not be free meals for everyone ticketed in the room, just the first two people. This is only an issue with the family bedroom, where the "recommended capacity" (which is different than the Blue Book Max Capacity) is 2 adults and 2 kids.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 21, 2014)

And how about if there were 2 or 3 on the reservation but only 1 person came to the diner? (Like at breakfast, where one goes at 6:30 while the other sleeps in.) And which one in the party holds the ticket receIpt?


----------



## jis (Jan 21, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> And how about if there were 2 or 3 on the reservation but only 1 person came to the diner? (Like at breakfast, where one goes at 6:30 while the other sleeps in.) And which one in the party holds the ticket receIpt?


Add more field (= number of meals to be served on the trip) in the PNR so the hapless LSA could carefully mark off how many meals have been served on each PNR for each meal  As I imagined the whole idea borders on insanity. Given that we know at least one person involved in AGR, I find it hard to imagine that they'd come up with such a Rube Goldberg scheme.


----------



## jebr (Jan 21, 2014)

Isn't the dining service going to a new computerized POS soon-ish? I imagine that could be used to verify a customer's eligibility for meals - just have it scan the ticket for anyone who is in a sleeper (that way it's tied to the ticket as well and people don't have to remember their car and room number - telling a customer to bring their ticket is easier for the customer than having to remember a car and room number.)

Now what the purpose of limiting it below the number of customers booked in a room via AGR, I'm not sure. Seems like a lot of goodwill lost for not much revenue gain.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 21, 2014)

That's why AGR isn't doing it. 

The real story isn't new, it's the limiting of AGR Bedroom awards to 2 people. That kind of sucks, but it is what it is.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 21, 2014)

Although the warning given in the opening thread is not currently implemented I would not be surprised to see Amtrak moving in the direction of verifying meal allocation with specific allotments, if for no other reason than to prevent even the appearance of unchallenged waste. Amtrak has several very vocal enemies in our government who love to harp on any waste they can find (or simply conjure up) in an effort to portray Amtrak's relatively small portion of the total budget as some sort of enormous tax drain. The honest truth is that fooling the diner staff into providing you a free meal would seem to be ludicrously easy under the current arrangement. Presumably this is tallied and caught after the fact, and hopefully it's not something that results in lots of unnecessary waste, but if I were Amtrak I'd at least consider implementing some sort of verification system beyond the honor system that appears to be in place today.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 21, 2014)

In theory you can be asked to show your ticket stub, but it's never happened to me.


----------



## Ispolkom (Jan 21, 2014)

I also don't see what would stop someone from signing a check in the dining car, listing a random roomette, eating for free, and then leaving the train at the next station. I've never been asked for my ticket in the diner by the LSA. Once when I was at breakfast a conductor asked me for my ticket, as it hadn't been lifted the night before when I boarded the train, but that doesn't count.

It probably wouldn't only work for a meal without reservations, as I have been asked for my reservation slip.

You could try to reconcile meal checks against the manifest, but that wouldn't be a perfect system, unless the manifest was updated in real time. I've booked travel on long-distance trains after the train has left its station of origin, and therefore wasn't on the printed manifest. This caused some confusion in the sleeper, but not the dining car.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 21, 2014)

jebr said:


> telling a customer to bring their ticket is easier for the customer than having to remember a car and room number


I think most passengers can remember that they're in room #4 or #7 and the 2nd sleeper or the Boston sleeper. Even when they were paper tickets, I did not usually carry my tickets with me. And now, I only use an iPad, which I'm not going to carry to the Dining Car each time. (I don't have a data plan on my phone.)


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 21, 2014)

AmtrakBlue said:


> What is your problem MM? Ryan replied to your posts as anyone else on AU would have. Why do you think he's stalking you?


Amtrak Blue? You are sweet to ask, and I've no problem discussing with you in detail but why not send me a PM so we can keep this post on topic. Thanks!


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 21, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Although the warning given in the opening thread is not currently implemented I would not be surprised to see Amtrak moving in the direction of verifying meal allocation with specific allotments, if for no other reason than to prevent even the appearance of unchallenged waste. Amtrak has several very vocal enemies in our government who love to harp on any waste they can find (or simply conjure up) in an effort to portray Amtrak's relatively small portion of the total budget as some sort of enormous tax drain. The honest truth is that fooling the diner staff into providing you a free meal would seem to be ludicrously easy under the current arrangement. Presumably this is tallied and caught after the fact, and hopefully it's not something that results in lots of unnecessary waste, but if I were Amtrak I'd at least consider implementing some sort of verification system beyond the honor system that appears to be in place today.


The ticket scanning system is already in place, so the technology aspect wouldn't be difficult, and to address the above, Amtrak has a lot of incentive to move away from the current honor system PLUS find ways to increase revenues, especially on the LD trains. This is why I wasn't all that surprised when receiving the original incorrect information - in fact, I see it coming eventually in some way, although I hope I'm wrong.... following the lead of airlines who have mostly eradicated the idea of meal provision, and focusing on getting from point A to B.


----------



## jebr (Jan 21, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > telling a customer to bring their ticket is easier for the customer than having to remember a car and room number
> ...


I think most passengers can remember what number of room they're in and what location sleeper they're in (and the number as well.) But for most passengers I think it's slightly easier to just remember to bring their ticket and have it scanned. I'd imagine that they would be able to look up a reservation as well if needed (perhaps by car/room number.) But if we're going to electronic POS anyways, I think migrating to using the ticket would be preferable for verification over a room number.



Michigan Mom said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Although the warning given in the opening thread is not currently implemented I would not be surprised to see Amtrak moving in the direction of verifying meal allocation with specific allotments, if for no other reason than to prevent even the appearance of unchallenged waste. Amtrak has several very vocal enemies in our government who love to harp on any waste they can find (or simply conjure up) in an effort to portray Amtrak's relatively small portion of the total budget as some sort of enormous tax drain. The honest truth is that fooling the diner staff into providing you a free meal would seem to be ludicrously easy under the current arrangement. Presumably this is tallied and caught after the fact, and hopefully it's not something that results in lots of unnecessary waste, but if I were Amtrak I'd at least consider implementing some sort of verification system beyond the honor system that appears to be in place today.
> ...


Except that only the conductors currently have the scanning technology, and it's interfaced in with a system to verify passengers are on the correct train, not to keep a running tally of meals on the train. I believe Amtrak is working to migrate to electronic POS for the dining cars anyways, and those systems should have those checks built in, but they'll likely be separate from the current technology.


----------



## jis (Jan 21, 2014)

Just to set the record straight one more time on the matter of food service.... Most airlines sell food to economy passengers on flights of sufficient length, just like Amtrak does to Coach passengers. Airlines that have domestic First Class generally serve food in First Class gratis, and the food is quite reasonable, just like Amtrak serves food gratis to First Class and Sleeper passengers. So as far as food service goes there is relatively little difference between Amtrak and at least the legacy airlines.


----------



## amamba (Jan 22, 2014)

Michigan Mom said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Although the warning given in the opening thread is not currently implemented I would not be surprised to see Amtrak moving in the direction of verifying meal allocation with specific allotments, if for no other reason than to prevent even the appearance of unchallenged waste. Amtrak has several very vocal enemies in our government who love to harp on any waste they can find (or simply conjure up) in an effort to portray Amtrak's relatively small portion of the total budget as some sort of enormous tax drain. The honest truth is that fooling the diner staff into providing you a free meal would seem to be ludicrously easy under the current arrangement. Presumably this is tallied and caught after the fact, and hopefully it's not something that results in lots of unnecessary waste, but if I were Amtrak I'd at least consider implementing some sort of verification system beyond the honor system that appears to be in place today.
> ...


My understanding is that amtrak added the meals to be included with sleeper tix in an effort to save the dining cars. Someone please correct me if I"m wrong.


----------



## jis (Jan 22, 2014)

amamba said:


> My understanding is that amtrak added the meals to be included with sleeper tix in an effort to save the dining cars. Someone please correct me if I"m wrong.


You are correct. When this was done food was added to the ticket for Sleepers, but not for Slumbercoaches in the eastern trains. In order to avoid the enormous additional food charge I traveled by Slumbercoaches as long as they existed. Of course on the Superliner trains there was no way to get a sleeping berth and avoid the food charges.
Even now I usually do not partake all three meals while traveling by Sleeper. Too much food for me. Naturally I think it would be nice if the food charges were separated out, so that one gets to pay only for the food that one actually consumes, but for saving the Diners I am happy to subsidize it to some extent.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jan 22, 2014)

Ditto! Excellent Post jis!  (I used to ride the Crescent often from WAS-GRV in Slumber Coaches!)


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 22, 2014)

jis said:


> Just to set the record straight one more time on the matter of food service.... Most airlines sell food to economy passengers on flights of sufficient length, just like Amtrak does to Coach passengers. Airlines that have domestic First Class generally serve food in First Class gratis, and the food is quite reasonable, just like Amtrak serves food gratis to First Class and Sleeper passengers. So as far as food service goes there is relatively little difference between Amtrak and at least the legacy airlines.


Sort of. If the airline decides that the flight encompasses a normal meal time, a meal is served. Otherwise, FC gets you larger seats, headphones, first on/off, free alcohol... but there are not meals served on every flight. Though I will say that snack service in FC is often like a meal. Where it is really different is that if your flight is delayed, most of the time your food costs are up to you, where on Amtrak they do seem to make an effort to provide things like meals and hotels to misconnecting passengers, even in the common weather situations where airlines stopped paying for these things, a process that started after deregulation and there was no more CAB.


----------



## tonys96 (Jan 22, 2014)

Just a question for the mods........why was the thread title changed to include "(false)" ? It is my opinion that the OP was just restating what s/he was told, and put it out here on AU to get the real inside skinny. I agree that s/he did not state it very well, but it looks like a better title could include a question mark (?) at the end instead of what it was changed to.

Just my 2¢.


----------



## VentureForth (Jan 23, 2014)

Yeah - I agree that the mods shouldn't change titles - let the readers read. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using the Android Amtrak Forums mobile app


----------



## Ryan (Jan 23, 2014)

The problem comes when someone only reads the title or the first page and thinks that the "policy" is actually real.


----------



## jis (Jan 23, 2014)

Michigan Mom said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Just to set the record straight one more time on the matter of food service.... Most airlines sell food to economy passengers on flights of sufficient length, just like Amtrak does to Coach passengers. Airlines that have domestic First Class generally serve food in First Class gratis, and the food is quite reasonable, just like Amtrak serves food gratis to First Class and Sleeper passengers. So as far as food service goes there is relatively little difference between Amtrak and at least the legacy airlines.
> ...


True. But my observation was strictly regarding on board service. Even Amtrak chooses to not provide any food service for money or otherwise on certain trains that are deemed to be of too short a duration. On some they provide automat service too.
Another thought comes to mind. I think comparing Amtrak premium sleeper service on trips that are typically of long duration with run of the mill airline FC is also an inappropriate comparison. Domestically there are very very few premium sleeper service offerings from airlines. The only ones that come to mind are the likes of JFK - LAX PS of United and similar from American and Delta. And even those are almost like corridor sleeper service in the sense that there are half a dozen departures each day and the trip is of the order of 6 hours or less. To that extent they are sort of like Acela with lie flat beds more than Amtrak LD sleeper.

The only air service that comes close to Amtrak LD sleeper service in nature are to be found on long haul intercontinental service, which is kind of pointless to discuss in the context of domestic service anyway.

So the way I see it, most standard domestic major route air service with FC is like short to medium distance corridor service on Amtrak and generally provide the requisite equivalent level of on board service. There is nothing that is quite equivalent to Amtrak LD Sleeper service domestically by air. The thing that comes closest are services like United PS and equivalent from AA and DL, but even those are more akin to corridor service with lie flat bed than Amtrak LD Sleeper service.

The other observation is that when on board service is compared a consideration of greater importance is the length of the journey in time (not distance), and a related consideration also is frequency of service, since that affects how passengers are treated at each end to some extent too.


----------



## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

Anderson said:


> Since you don't need to present your ticket in the diner (just know your room/car), ...


I have been asked to show our tickets about 50% of the time, and that's with the first seating. After that, I guess they remember our faces and know we're sleeper passengers.


----------



## jis (Jan 23, 2014)

Guest said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Since you don't need to present your ticket in the diner (just know your room/car), ...
> ...


As usual when it involves Amtrak the experience of individuals may be wildly different from each other. I have yet to be asked to show a ticket in the Diner. And I have been doing at least half a dozen Sleeper trips each year over the last decade or so.


----------



## buddy559 (Jan 23, 2014)

RyanS said:


> The problem comes when someone only reads the title or the first page and thinks that the "policy" is actually real.


Perhaps we should do away with the posts here all together and just post headlines. Say limit them to 140 characters, lest someone have to read more than a sentence before making a decision. It could be called "TRAKER"


----------



## jis (Jan 23, 2014)

Y'all can already do that using the hashtag #AmtrakUnlimited on Twitter  Don't need anything special


----------



## SarahZ (Jan 23, 2014)

buddy559 said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> > The problem comes when someone only reads the title or the first page and thinks that the "policy" is actually real.
> ...


You totally missed Ryan's point. He isn't saying we should just have headlines; he's saying some people just skim the headlines or the first couple of posts and don't read the entire thread.

Newspapers operate under this assumption, hence the old journalism rule of covering when, where, what, why, and how in the first sentence of every article. That way, when people pick up the morning paper and skim it during breakfast, they get the jist of the news without having to read every article in-depth. If the first sentence piques their interest, then they can choose to read the entire article. If not, they move on. Same with internet threads.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jan 23, 2014)

tonys96 said:


> Just a question for the mods........why was the thread title changed to include "(false)" ? It is my opinion that the OP was just restating what s/he was told, and put it out here on AU to get the real inside skinny. I agree that s/he did not state it very well, but it looks like a better title could include a question mark (?) at the end instead of what it was changed to.
> 
> Just my 2¢.


There are very, very few occasions when I will change anything written by anyone here. This was one of those occasions.

If the member or guest who started and originally titled a topic later determines that the claim they made in the title was wrong and posts that fact in the topic, then I will go back and add that fact to the title. In that way, the title reflects the current thinking of the member who started the topic and does not mislead and require a reader to drill down through multiple replies to find that the claim in the title was wrong. However, for me to change a topic title in that way, the determination that the title is wrong has to come from the topic starter. If the topic starter does not concede that the title was wrong, then I will not touch the title no matter how strong my or anyone else's opinion may be that it is incorrect.

In this case, adding "false" was not intended to reflect on *Michigan Mom* in any negative way. It was just a means of keeping the original title (mostly) but make it clear that the claim in the title was later found by *Michigan Mom* to be incorrect.


----------



## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> In this case, adding "false" was not intended to reflect on *Michigan Mom* in any negative way. It was just a means of keeping the original title (mostly) but make it clear that the claim in the title was later found by *Michigan Mom* to be incorrect.


Possibly the edit/change should be to suffix "(ans: no)" or "(ans: false)".


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 23, 2014)

Another way to change the title in a neutral fashion would be to add [updated] or [see Post 52]. Just throwing out ideas.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jan 23, 2014)

Good suggestions! Thanks, and done.


----------



## tonys96 (Jan 23, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> Good suggestions! Thanks, and done.


This is why this here forum is one of the best there is! Great Mods! :hi:


----------



## Michigan Mom (Jan 23, 2014)

Yes, indeed, thanks. I didn't like the implications of "FALSE" as though I would intentionally post anything false. As a couple posters stated, it was the information given, and I think people here are intelligent enough to sort through the nuances on their own.

I'd also like to once again thank the people who have written to me privately, every day there is a new PM from a different person.

Just as in life, the playing field is not always level, unfortunately, but sooner or later things have a way of working out.


----------

