# city of new orleans



## rands (Mar 5, 2007)

Rode the Southwest Chief last year from CHI -ABQ . Changed at the last minute cause of family and hurricane damage. Was going on the City.

Has any one got any recent trip reports of the southbound run?


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## had8ley (Mar 15, 2007)

rands said:


> Rode the Southwest Chief last year from CHI -ABQ . Changed at the last minute cause of family and hurricane damage. Was going on the City.Has any one got any recent trip reports of the southbound run?


The City used to be one of Amtrak's prettiest trains when it had heritage equipment and dome cars. It has been downgraded to about as low as you can go for a long distance train. The sleeper is half reserved for the crew and the one engine six car train looks more like a short trip regional train than one that goes from the Gulf Coast all the way to Chicago. Unfortunately, it seems that there are many differing reports on this train. My personal experiences have been less than satisfying. Unfortunately, I rode when the new menu (SDS or whatever you want to call it) first came into effect. The chef was using the microwave instead of the convection oven and everyone was asking why their entrees were still half frozen. They have since realized that people were not going to patronize a ptomaine palace on wheels and straightened out the meal situation. Perhaps one of the faux pas of the 80's was when the IC took up the double main track between New Orleans and Chicago and then made the Greenwood "branch" the main line out of Jackson, MS Many crew have told passengers to be sure and eat before going over the rough tracks on the Greenwood side. As far as on time performance goes the CN seems to slip the little train into New Orleans and Chicago in decent times. I would think it is fairly high in the on time catagory although I do not have the figures. Someone on the site will have them I'm sure. All in all it is not my favorite train; I feel certain that it will one of the first to get the new diner lounges if they are ever implemented. The ridership south of Memphis and Jackson, MS can be spartan at times. Also beware if you are going in the sleeper; it seems that every time I get on one it looks old and worn out although I understand that more and more sleepers are being re-furbished.


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## George Harris (Apr 13, 2007)

had8ley:

There was a point in the late 70's that the train was actually coaches only for a while. I believe that it did have a dinette, but NO SLEEPER! And this was while it was still being called the Panama Limited. What an insult to a train that spent many years as a premier all Pullman train.

The current schedule at 19h35m southbound and 19h15m northbound is also an embarrasment to a line that once fielded two 16.5 hour trains between Chicago and New Orleans. Not only could these trains make the schedule, they could make up some time on it on occasion. Of course they were running a few mph over the speed limit when they did.

About the best thing that can be said for it is that it is faster than the Louisiane, but not by much. (The Louisiane was the secondary through train which ran overnight between Chicago and Memphis and daylight to New Orleans. It took 12 hour north of Memphis and about 8 to 9 hours between there and New Orleans.

The current route between Memphis and Jackson MS through Greenwood and Yazoo City was always the freight route while the passenger trains went through Grenada and Canton MS. The Grenada district was straighter but hillier and had been given little in the way of new material over the last 50 years, so in the constant search of the IC to make do with less, they added signal to the Yazoo District so they could give it a maximum 79 mph speed limit (it got welded rail in the early 80's) and moved Amtrak over. It is about 6 miles longer and has a few more curves, but except for climbing out of the Delta around Yazoo City is almost dead flat. To their credit, they did more to keep the train moving relatively fast than some of the other companies that have closed certain lines.

The single tracking was done in the mid 80's when the company was sold. The new buyer pulled up the second main Chicago to Cairo IL, Fulton KY ot Memphis, and Jackson MS to Hammond LA to sell the material to cover part of his purchase price. This is not a rumor. This is what was publically stated and carried in the trade press. Part of the St. Louis light rail system is running on some of this rail. At the time they did this, they also shut down the ATS that permitted them to run 90 mph is parts of Illinois. Speed on this part had already been dropped from the 100 mph limit that it had in the 50's and early 60's.

(Cairo to Fulton had never been fully double and what was had been singled in the early 60's. Hammond LA south was also singled in the 50's or early 60's. Memphis to Jackson MS via Grenada always was single.)

George


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## Bill Haithcoat (Apr 13, 2007)

Two of my choicest oldie-goldie memories are of the trains described above. The Panama Limited, overnight CHI to NOL and the City of New Orleans, oriignally a fast daytime train. This was when my sister lived in Memphis, late 50's or early 60's. I had not traveled much at that time.

The first time I saw the City of NOL(pre-Amtrak, day train) was standing at that park in downtown Memphis overlooking the water. I was expecting its original seven car consist, so typical of many early streamliners. The train did not have reserved coach seats, thus the timetable did not list the number of coaches(with the number of seats in them). To my surprise it had about 21 beautiful brown and orange matching cars. Probably at the height of the summer season. Quite a scene!

Then at midnight my parents and sister took me to the station to see the northbound Panama Limited. By that time it had leased a Northern Pacific dome-sleeper(re-painted ini Illinois Central colors). It was my first time to see a dome. (but not to ride--that was to be on theTexas Eagle later). The porter(as they were called then) allowed me to go inside into the dome and look around. I remember waving at daddy outside. The Panama Liimtied at that time had a parlor car removed in Memphis, which had come up from NOL. At the same time, they added two or three set-out sleepers, to go MEM to CHI. And all of this with a rounded end observation car at the rear, which had to be factored into all the switching. AND---they accomplished all of this with only a ten minute dwell time at the station as I recall. Quite a feat--and they did it every night.


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## Guest_had8ley_* (Apr 14, 2007)

George Harris said:


> had8ley:
> There was a point in the late 70's that the train was actually coaches only for a while. I believe that it did have a dinette, but NO SLEEPER! And this was while it was still being called the Panama Limited. What an insult to a train that spent many years as a premier all Pullman train.
> 
> The current schedule at 19h35m southbound and 19h15m northbound is also an embarrasment to a line that once fielded two 16.5 hour trains between Chicago and New Orleans. Not only could these trains make the schedule, they could make up some time on it on occasion. Of course they were running a few mph over the speed limit when they did.
> ...


A great analogy George. My fondest memories are the twin unit diner on the Panama and the dome cars when Amtrak took over and added them when they were still running 10 and 6's. The dinette was nothing to write home about~ almost parallels the Cardinal eating disasters that others have posted. The Louisiane was what we called a "Goat" train~ garbage of all terminals. Not only could it be called a main line local but it carried more mail and express cars than it did passenger cars. I don't remember no sleepers on the City but this train has experienced every experiment that Amtrak has ever dreamt up; not the least was last year's dismal entrance of diner lite or SDS or whatever the passengers wanted to call it. I never heard anyone come out of the diner chuckling about how good the food was then. Things sure have changed for the better. Maybe this forum had a small part in twisting Amtrak's arm in changing a dismal experiment.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2007)

George Harris said:


> had8ley:
> , but NO SLEEPER! And this was while it was still being called the Panama Limited. What an insult to a train that spent many years as a premier all Pullman train.


George;

Not to add insult to injury but wasn't the City one of the first, if not the very first, to start selling revenue space in the transistion sleeper when the other one was sold out ?


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## AlanB (Apr 14, 2007)

Guest said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley:
> ...


While I'm not George, I think that it was the Sunset that intitially started selling revenue space into the trans/dorm.

However, I'm not sure why that adds insult to injury. Personally I think that was one of the smartest moves that Amtrak has made in recent years. These cars were designed and brought for that very purpose. For years Amtrak has been paying to haul a half empty car just for the crew, when it could have been making money to help offset the costs of that car. When I think of the millions of dollars of lost revenue over the years that this wasn't being done.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Apr 14, 2007)

AlanB said:


> However, I'm not sure why that adds insult to injury. Personally I think that was one of the smartest moves that Amtrak has made in recent years. These cars were designed and brought for that very purpose. For years Amtrak has been paying to haul a half empty car just for the crew, when it could have been making money to help offset the costs of that car. When I think of the millions of dollars of lost revenue over the years that this wasn't being done.


The only downside is that Amtrak now uses only one attendant for the Transition sleeper and regular sleeper on both the City and the Texas Eagle, so all passengers get a lower quality of service since the attendant has to serve up to 16 more people than usual


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## had8ley (Apr 14, 2007)

AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > However, I'm not sure why that adds insult to injury. Personally I think that was one of the smartest moves that Amtrak has made in recent years. These cars were designed and brought for that very purpose. For years Amtrak has been paying to haul a half empty car just for the crew, when it could have been making money to help offset the costs of that car. When I think of the millions of dollars of lost revenue over the years that this wasn't being done.
> ...


Another negative for some people is the fact that if there is no baggage car you get an earful of whistle the entire trip. Some people like this; personally, I don't. Give me the revenue sleeper on the rear of the City anyday. I don't think George Pullman would be smiling at the thought of hauling the crew around in the same car as revenue passengers. As a footnote~at one time when the transition dorm was on the head end the City used to carry the regular sleeper on the rear. I don't know of too many ambitious car attendants that continuosly walk the length of the train for the entire trip to cover both cars at opposite ends of the train.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Apr 14, 2007)

had8ley said:


> I don't know of too many ambitious car attendants that continuosly walk the length of the train for the entire trip to cover both cars at opposite ends of the train.


When that was the case, the Transition sleeper had its own attendant. tehy moved the regular sleeper to behind the Transdorm so they could use only one attendant


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## AlanB (Apr 14, 2007)

AmtrakCrescent20 said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know of too many ambitious car attendants that continuosly walk the length of the train for the entire trip to cover both cars at opposite ends of the train.
> ...


Actually at that time I believe that the attendant for the trans/dorm was also the cafe attendant.


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## NativeSon5859 (May 15, 2007)

Well, I have ridden the City between Chicago and Louisiana (Hammond and New Orleans) and back a total of five times since 2004, with ride #6 taking place in about twelve days....59 CHI-NOL.

My most recent trip was just about this time last year. I was in one of the new sleeping cars. A great trip overall. Now i'm not sure what they've done between May '06 and May '07 in terms of downgrading the train, but riding on 58/59 you can almost always be guaranteed an on time (or very close to it) arrival and departure on both ends...smooth riding track (I've never really noticed the reported bumpy ride in Mississippi...certainly nothing at all to warn people about in my opinion)...and a friendly crew.

Every trip i've taken there has always been between 70 and 100 passengers getting off the train in New Orleans...not a huge number, but of course the train fills up for Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, sporting events, etc. The cancellation of the NOL-ORL segment of trains 1 and 2 has not helped the ridership to/from NOLA...there were usually a couple to a few dozen connecting passengers (or more) on most days when the connection was available. Also, the city's tourism industry is still suffering quite a bit...once that gets back to where it was pre-K (if it ever does), you'll see business improve. That being said, I was at the NOL station today picking up my tickets for next week, and I asked the attendant about business. He said business has been good overall, with some slow periods and heavy periods just like most markets.

Six cars may be a sort of sad excuse for an overnight train from a railfan's perspective, but it's probably all the route can handle during the slow travel periods....not a lot of big population centers are served on the route, but hey, the City is the classic "small town America" train...gotta love it!


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## creddick (May 15, 2007)

We rode the "City" in 1989 (I think that was the year). Made a big mistake and sat up in coach. I have not done that since. It was heritage equipment at that time. The thing I remember the most was the dining car. Very poor excuse for supper. My son, about 11 at the time, ordered spaghetti off the kids menu. They nuked a can of "Franco-American" and charged me $5 for it. Makes today's meals sound good in comparison.


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## NativeSon5859 (May 15, 2007)

Does anyone remember when the City had its Dining car taken off...around 1990 I think...and they replaced it with a Horizon food service car with tray meals? Talk about a downgrade at the time! Thankfully it still had the Dome coach up until the Superliner transition.


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## had8ley (May 16, 2007)

NativeSon5859 said:


> Does anyone remember when the City had its Dining car taken off...around 1990 I think...and they replaced it with a Horizon food service car with tray meals? Talk about a downgrade at the time! Thankfully it still had the Dome coach up until the Superliner transition.


I think they called it a "dinette" and was a pure insult to even the craziest of microwave food junkies. It was right next to the 10 and 6 sleeper. One of the regular LSA's on the car was a gentleman (and I use the term loosely) that the crew called "Mother Knowles." Mother had a short fuse and an even shorter temper. One day someone kept tapping him on the shoulder as he was counting his money coming into New Orleans. He kept saying "Go away" and added a few four letter words after two or three taps. Unfortunately, Mother Knowles didn't bother to look at who was tapping him on the shoulder. He grabbed a cup of ice water that he had been drinking and threw it behind him at the person tapping his shoulder. Mother Knowles turned around to see who he had given a free bath. It was his Product Line Supervisor...


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## Larry H. (May 17, 2007)

From our recent trip and watching the preformance of the City for months, it appears that unless you luck out as we did, its pretty close to one time most days. And though it is a short train, the lounge and diner were the same as the empire builder. Even had the same flowers on the table. I thought the sleeper was the noisest of the four of our trip. That may have been a fluke.. I looked at those doors that were all banging about, it seems they could have had a more positive closing device. The doors on the Empire Builder shut much more postively. And as mentioned that sliding door inbetween the rooms was banging about and had several pieces of literature folded and stuck in the track. The upper bed was constanly banging in its fitting also. I got a piece of cardboard out of the trash box and forced it into the holding mechanism which finally stopped 90% of the noise. Unfortunately those are the kind of things that should have been well designed from the start and weren't.. Who gets paid for those decisions?

Its sad to the the diner half shut down even though its a full size car. One waiter and the supervisor take care of the passengers. The food was good for the most part. The lounge was a refurbished one in nice shape on our trips. The train is short, but contains the same basic features of the larger ones, and anymore they aren't much larger..


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## George Harris (May 18, 2007)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Two of my choicest oldie-goldie memories are of the trains described above. The Panama Limited, overnight CHI to NOL and the City of New Orleans, oriignally a fast daytime train. This was when my sister lived in Memphis, late 50's or early 60's. I had not traveled much at that time.
> The first time I saw the City of NOL(pre-Amtrak, day train) was standing at that park in downtown Memphis overlooking the water. I was expecting its original seven car consist, so typical of many early streamliners. The train did not have reserved coach seats, thus the timetable did not list the number of coaches(with the number of seats in them). To my surprise it had about 21 beautiful brown and orange matching cars. Probably at the height of the summer season. Quite a scene!
> 
> Then at midnight my parents and sister took me to the station to see the northbound Panama Limited. By that time it had leased a Northern Pacific dome-sleeper(re-painted ini Illinois Central colors). It was my first time to see a dome. (but not to ride--that was to be on theTexas Eagle later). The porter(as they were called then) allowed me to go inside into the dome and look around. I remember waving at daddy outside. The Panama Liimtied at that time had a parlor car removed in Memphis, which had come up from NOL. At the same time, they added two or three set-out sleepers, to go MEM to CHI. And all of this with a rounded end observation car at the rear, which had to be factored into all the switching. AND---they accomplished all of this with only a ten minute dwell time at the station as I recall. Quite a feat--and they did it every night.


Bill:

That is my time frame in Memphis. Usually if I was downtown, I would try to be in the park a couple of minutes after 2:00 pm to catch the northbound City. Up until I was in highschool, my father worked on South Main in a building that backed up to the track. The southbound City was their quitting time whistle, and you could just about set your watch by it.

1962-64 I was at UT Martin in Martin TN. My common return was to take the NB city to Fulton KY and then hitchhike the 10 miles down to Martin. Quite often they would add coaches northbound at Memphis. Sometimes but not always, they would get some of the people going north to board these coaches before the train pulled in. Once, I forget when exactly, but I think it was an Easter Sunday, these were 4 six axle heavyweights, I think two for Chicago and two for St. Louis. We were switdhed into the train, a fourth unit and RPO were added to the front and away we went about 5 minutes late, but got to Fulton on time. The train was over 20 cars, I think 24 but am not really sure.

I rode the Amtrak version a couple of times in 1981 from Memphis south to Jackson MS and at least once all the way to New Orleans. It was not really the same. But I can say that on Sunday nights northbound they were still picking up between 10 and 20 plus passengers at all the "small town" stops on the Grenada line north of Jackson. The ride quality on the beat to death 112 lb rail between Jackson and Memphis at 79 mph was in one word, exciting.

George


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## NativeSon5859 (Jun 3, 2007)

Well, I just got back from another ride on #59 last week. I've put a report of my entire trip up in case anyone is interested. Just a few notes for this thread...

1) It was a typical six car conist, 1 loco, and no baggage car. Mostly full train leaving Chicago...over 25 pax boarded in Homewood...coaches were full until Carbondale. Good crowd got off and on in MEM (about 25 off and on), about fifteen got off in Jackson, about ten got off in Hammond, and 62 got off in NOL...not terrible for a holiday.

2) Dining Car was very busy for dinner (two seatings...9:00pm and 9:30pm) but they only used one half of the car since there were only two employees in the Diner....the Southwest Chief always had 3 employees, for example. Both breakfast and lunch did decent business...obviously no where near as full as dinner, but the crowd sure kept the waiter and the supervisor busy. Most of the passengers for breakfast and lunch were from coach, as the sleeper south of MEM only had about 9 passengers in it.

3) It was an "old" train....my sleeping car still had the old green paneling in the bathrooms and the brown carpet all over the place....the room, although kind of outdated, was fine...everything worked as it should have. The diner was a non-updated Superliner 1 with the high back, brown leather booth seating, and the lounge was a non updated Superliner 1 with the brown seats and walls...and it was sort of dirty for the most part.

4) The track was smooth for the entire trip. I slept better on this train than I did on the Cheif, that's for sure. The reported bad track south of MEM i a thing of the past because there was nary a bump the entire way down to NOL. Very noticeable smooth track.

Nice ride overall.


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## had8ley (Jun 4, 2007)

NativeSon5859 said:


> Well, I just got back from another ride on #59 last week. I've put a report of my entire trip up in case anyone is interested. Just a few notes for this thread...
> 1) It was a typical six car conist, 1 loco, and no baggage car. Mostly full train leaving Chicago...over 25 pax boarded in Homewood...coaches were full until Carbondale. Good crowd got off and on in MEM (about 25 off and on), about fifteen got off in Jackson, about ten got off in Hammond, and 62 got off in NOL...not terrible for a holiday.
> 
> 2) Dining Car was very busy for dinner (two seatings...9:00pm and 9:30pm) but they only used one half of the car since there were only two employees in the Diner....the Southwest Chief always had 3 employees, for example. Both breakfast and lunch did decent business...obviously no where near as full as dinner, but the crowd sure kept the waiter and the supervisor busy. Most of the passengers for breakfast and lunch were from coach, as the sleeper south of MEM only had about 9 passengers in it.
> ...


Nice report and glad to hear our Canadian neighbors (namely Canadian National) did something about the Greenwood "branch" that is now the main line. I'll be on #58 in October and just hope the freight trains haven't done a number on the track by then. I live near Hammond, LA and unfortunately most City's come in looking old and worn out. Only trouble is they are also serving travelers from Chicago to San Antonio when it turns south again as the Texas Eagle.


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## NativeSon5859 (Jun 4, 2007)

had8ley said:


> NativeSon5859 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I just got back from another ride on #59 last week. I've put a report of my entire trip up in case anyone is interested. Just a few notes for this thread...
> ...


Also, they didn't bother changing the car number form "2231" to "5900". Not a big deal for the non-rail buff but it seems that Amtrak doesn't put as much care into 58/59 as they should. No train annoucements were made upon departure from CHI, just the station stop calls and the call for dinner. Not terribly great service.


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## frj1983 (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks for the recent commentary and trip reports everyone!

My Wife and I will be riding the CNOL round trip in September...only 3 months away now and am really looking forward to our first Amtrak trip in 2 years. I'll let you know how it goes!


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