# San Diego to San Francisco via Surfliner/San Joaquin/bus



## thully (Sep 15, 2012)

This weekend, I'm back at it with another Amtrak trip - the first one involving an overnight stay since I moved out to San Diego. The occasion for this week's trip is the Lions-49ers Sunday Night game at Candlestick Park. As such, I'm taking Amtrak to San Francisco - though instead of the Coast Starlight I opted for the train-bus combination via Bakersfield. Had a hard time deciding what route to take, but in the end timing (the Starlight would require me to take the 6am Surfliner, as opposed to the later options via Bakersfield) and AGR point cost (6,000 vs 11,000 round trip for the Starlight - didn't want to pay cash since I had just paid for my SWC roomette for New Years in cash) won over more train time/coastal views. There's always another time for the Starlight - and this way I get to experience the San Joaquin (a new train for me) as well as a medium-length trip on an Amtrak California bus.

It was a little hard getting AGR to book it this way, though - for some strang reason, if you want to go SAN-any SF bus stop, it prefers to give you Surfliner SAN-SBA and a 7 hr bus SBA-SF! Granted, that's less connections (and only 1500 AGR points each way), but it's 8hrs on a bus, compared to under 3 hrs via BFD. However, they do offer all the BFD connections when booking SAN-EMY or LAX-SF, so in the end they just did it as two awards (including the SJ and Surfliner would be two special routes regardless).

With that said, on to the journey!

SAN to LAX

To get to the downtown San Diego station, I simply walked there from where I live. Pretty nice, easy, and fast - it takes me about 10min tops, and I don't have to worry about traffic or when my bus/cab is going to arrive. When I got there, a big line had already congregated for #769 - the train that I ultimately selected to begin my journey (I had originally booked an earlier bus-train-bus combo, but decided I'd rather leave later on Saturday morning). Found my way to the one Superliner in the consist, and got a seat on the side away from the station (where the ocean views would be). As we began the journey, I recognized some areas between SAN and SOL - notably up by UCSD/UTC. Amazing how living here makes you experience the train differently! Also, it was somewhat interested to see the rocky/hilly terrain around Sorrento Valley.

(As a side note, it really seems like Amtrak should add a station between Old Town and Solana Beach - would be nice for the UCSD/UTC/Sorrento Valley/La Jolla area... Maybe even just make a few stops/day at Sorrento Valley COASTER station)

Slightly after passing through the Sorrento Valley COASTER station, the ocean became visible out my window. This is the highlight of the Surfliner, though I think the combination of that and the bilevel equipment/interesting terrain make it a clear candidate for best non-LD train. Quite a few people boarded at SOL (I can't get over that station code), and at OSD - the latter at which Amtrak announced on the PA that they do not accept single-ride Metrolink tickets during boarding (I'm sensing that people boarding with Metrolink tickets is a problem...) At that station, someone boarded the Superliner and wondered if it was business class - I told them it was coach, albeit an LD coach used due to shortage of regular Surfliners. Between OSD and San Clemente Pier we had to stop to let a Metrolink train pass us - and from there it was a long stretch of beaches and great ocean views until about Laguna Niguel when the train tracks veer away from the coast. Figure I'll miss these great views on the SJ - though I definitely think a Starlight trip or Surfliner all the way to SLO will happen in the near future. Currently stopping at San Juan Capistrano - about the halfway point to LA. Figure I'll check back in in a few hours - looking forward to seeing what the Amtrak California bus experience is like...


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 15, 2012)

thully said:


> looking forward to seeing what the Amtrak California bus experience is like...


Spoiler alert: It stinks.


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## stntylr (Sep 15, 2012)

I rode the Surfliner last month between LAX and SAN and the part along the beach was amazing.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2012)

WhoozOn1st said:


> thully said:
> 
> 
> > looking forward to seeing what the Amtrak California bus experience is like...
> ...


Spoken like a Transplanted Native who knows! :giggle: Compared to any Train, True! For a Bus Ride, if you have to ride a Bus, Cali AM Busses aren't too bad, especially the EMY-SFO and the SFO-SBA Routes! Any Bus through the Desert or around LAX or that goes Inland and misses the Ocean Sucks! <_<


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## Shanghai (Sep 15, 2012)

I took the Ambus from SFC to SBA in August. It was a very nice coach with WiFi and a Restroom.

We stopped for an early lunch half way through the trip. I'm taking this trip again in November.


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## thully (Sep 15, 2012)

The rest of the Surfliner ride was uneventful, though it was kind of interesting to pass that Amtrak and Metro yards shortly before we got to Union Station. Saw a SSL sitting there as well as various Metro and Metrolink trains. Arrived basically on time, and then I made my way to get lunch and find the Bakersfield bus.

LAX to BFD:

Arrived at the bus stop fairly early - though a crowd was already congregating at the bus stops. Witnessed someone arguing with Amtrak and security as to whether they were allowed to leave their bags while they picked up their tickets. Eventually two buses pulled up - one in Amtrak California colors and one generic white bus. Both were going to Bakersfield - I opted to take the Amtrak California-painted bus. As it turns out, the bus was reasonably comfortable - not as comfortable as a train, but certainly more comfortable than the average charter bus or the Ann Arbor-Toledo run I've been on for the CL/LSL in Michigan. One downside is that this unfortunately didn't have Wi-Fi (as the Surfliner and San Joaquin do). As far as the ride itself, it was somewhat scenic and interesting - not as good as going down the coast, but still somewhat scenic in the portion going up/down the Grapevine. Of course, a train would be better, though it's definitely nice to have the option to connect to the San Joaquin to go to SF rather than have a 8hr bus ride from SBA or have to leave at 6am to connect to the Coast Starlight. After crossing the Grapevine, it did get rather flat, very unlike the more hilly terrain on the other side. We got to Bakersfield ahead of schedule - 30 minutes before the SJ (waiting on the track) was to depart.

In conclusion: While a bus is a bus, the Amtrak California buses do seem pretty decent. Would do one in the future - perhaps SBA-SFC, or even the overnight bus from SAN to Bakersfield (which is unfortunately the only overnight option from Southern California to SF aside from maybe Greyhound - would be nice to have an LD-type train doing a night run!) Still want to do the Coast Starlight - though returning via bus to SLO/Surfliner is tempting as an option that actually costs less points and gets me the neat coastal parts of the Starlight.

BFD to EMY:

After a brief wait inside the Bakersfield Amtrak station, I found my way to the San Joaquin where there happened to be a Superliner car in the consist. Sat in that car, and waited for the departure. There was some kind of rail travel group who had the front half of the first car (the Superliner, where I was) reserved. On departure, an announcement was made that the dining car was in the middle of the train (note that they said *dining* car, though this was actually a cafe car). They also emphasized that no outside food/drink or luggage could be brought in that car - an announcement I havent heard before on the Surfliner, Wolverine, LD trains, or anything else.

We were quickly on our way, though we did have to stop to let a freight pass briefly soon after leaving. Approching Wasco now - so far the route has been rather nondescript, though it is great to have all these Superliners on California corridor routes (and the California Cars aren't bad either). Sure beats Horizon or Amfleet equipment (though the 2x1 BC on the Wolverine is pretty nice...) Will prob check in again towards the end or in SF - still thinking about whether to do something different for my return trip.


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## johnny.menhennet (Sep 16, 2012)

There are Superliner cars in almost every Amtrak California consist, north or south.I believe California paid for some wrecked Superliners, restored them, and now owns them themselves. It is quite common, and I too, have seen many people mistake the car for Business Class.


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## thully (Sep 16, 2012)

The rest of the trip on the San Joaquin was pretty uneventful - though the scenery was somewhat flat, it got more interesting the further north we went. Certainly no Surfliner (or Coast Starlight), but not completely barren - in all honesty, it reminded me a bit of riding the Wolverine (albeit with far better equipment IMO). It was definitely da change stopping at all the tiny stations like Hanford and Turlock after taking the Surfliner through busy Southern California! They may not be Sanderson, TX - though they're still pretty small.

Around dinner time, I proceeded to the cafe car to get something to eat. To my surprise, the cafe was nothing like that of the Surfliners - it was on the upper level of the car, and it had a unique seating arrangement with round booths and small tables unlike anything I've seen on an Amtrak cafe car before! This may be normal for San Joaquin's and/or Capitol Corridor w/non-Surfliner California Cars, though I wouldn't know since I've never been on either before. In any case, I definitely preferred the arrangement to the standard Amtrak cafe/lounge car (though the Sightseer Lounge still is superior). I also noticed they sold BART tickets in the cafe car (and at a discount too - a $10 ticket for $8) - kind of handy, though Muni would perhaps be more useful to me on this trip. Also, the door carried a warning about no outside food/drink and no luggage in the cafe car - the San Joaquin seems to be as serious about this as the Surfliner is about not accepting daily Metrolink tickets! After watching the sun set, I went back to my seat as we headed towards the Bay Area - hitting station stops at Stockton, Antioch/Pittsburg, Martinez, Richmond (where a connection with BART can be made), and finally Emeryville.

EMY to SFW (Fishermans Wharf)

I detrained at EMY, where I saw the bright glowing "EMERYVILLE" sign on the station, and quickly found the SF-bound bus waiting outside - basically the same type of Amtrak California bus as the one from LA to Bakersfield. A few other passengers (though surprisingly few - probably less than 10 got on the bus, and we quickly departed for SF. In no time at all we were over the Bay Bridge (a neat ride in and of itself) and in San Francisco. Though there may not be an Amtrak train station in San Francisco, I will say that Amtrak makes it pretty convienent to go there - in fact, the multiple bus stops may be more convienent than a single station in SF! Was on the bus for a few stops until I finally got to the Fisherman's Wharf stop, where I set off for the HI-Fishermans Wharf hostel. This proved to be a longer walk than expected - though It seemed like under a mile when I had looked at it, it was actually over - and I was dressed for San Diego weather, not San Francisco weather (it was either dress for warm weather and be a bit cold in SF, or dress for cooler weather and be really hot in SD/LA/Bakersfield - and I chose the former). I may have opted for a cab, but waiting for one, hoping they know where to go/don't take you for a ride, and hoping they don't whine hysterically about paying with a credit card seemed worse than the walk. After a few slight wrong turns, I eventually made it here.

In conclusion - though the SJ may not be the Starlight, it is pretty good as far as corridor routes go (though Amtrak's California equipment certainly helps). leaning towards just taking it back to SAN rather than changing to the SLO bus connection or the CS - it is the quickest route, and it was certainly nice to not have to get up at 5am as I would to make the Starlight! Up tomorrow - explore SF a bit, figure out how to ride Muni (and maybe try some cable cars for fun), football game.


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## thully (Sep 17, 2012)

Anyway, I just wanted to follow up on my SF experience thus far. The hostel I'm staying at (HI-SF/Fisherman's Wharf) is quite interesting - it is part of Fort Mason, a former army base, and was used as barracks back then. Definitely an older building, though with quite an interesting history - and a location near the water that is quite secluded, though not far from the core of SF (and close to Muni buses and Cable cars that will take you there). Definitely an interesting place to stay - would be interesting to come back when I have more time (perhaps a 3 day weekend...) Glad I chose this over downtown-area hostels - quite the interesting place, and still easy to get to things from.

After eating breakfast in the hostel, I walked out to the beginning of the Powell/Hyde cable car line, which was a short walk. I bought a 1-day Muni passport at the booth there and got in line to ride, quickly finding a seat in a car. It was definitely interesting - similar to a trolley/streetcar, but different in the way it operates. Got off at the end of the line (Powell/Market) with the intent of riding it back the other way as far as the Cable Car museum, but quickly changed plans when I saw the insanely long line there. Instead, I walked - and walking up those San Francisco hills proved to be a bit exhausting. In any case, I made it to the Cable Car Museum - it was interesting (saw a bit where they wanted to replace all the cable cars with buses in the 40s/50s - good thing that didn't happen!) After touring the Cable Car Museum, I figured I'd catch a bus to the Caltrain station to see if I could do a loop to and from San Jose. To go there, I boarded the #30 Stockton, which was actually a trolleybus (powered by overhead cable). Thought that was a bit interesting, though the trip was pretty similar to riding a normal bus (though the cable did seem to keep it on a straighter path). Made it there, and by the time I got there it seemed like I'd have to run for the trains and hope there were no delays to make it work.

Scratching that idea, I figured I'd ride one of the Muni Metro lines that stopped outside. Walked up to the N Judah platform, and was greeted with a sign saying that there was no N service this weekend due to construction and instructing riders to "transfer at Church St" to substitute buses. That totally baffled me - no instructions on how to get to Church St, just "no N service, transfer at Church St. for buses". So I figured I'd ride the KT to Embarcadero instead - or at least that's what Google Maps and the online Muni schedule referred to. However, I didn't see any KT service at 4th/King - just T - and by the time I figured out the T went where I wanted, I noticed that I had apparently lost my 1 day Muni pass! At that point I figured I'd just buy and load a Clipper card as I found out that I'd need an extra fare for the Candlestick service regardless. However, there were no actual Clipper Card or even regular ticket vending machines to be found anywhere at 4th/King (either the Muni Metro platforms or in the Caltrain depot). There was a Clipper machine, but I quickly learned that it only reloads existing Clipper cards! Eventually, I figured out that Walgreens sold kipper cards, and bought one there and loaded it with $16 (enough for two Muni rides and the special event service) and just took the #30 Stockton back.

Back at the hostel, I looked up the routing for the Candlestick service to go to/from the game - found out that while the 77x stopped nearby returning from the game, the nearest it came before the game was California and Van Ness. Seemed completely bizarre and arbitrary, which definitely was in line with the rest of my Muni experience today. Ended up taking a regular Van Ness bus down to California/Van Ness and transferring to get to the game, which worked OK (though I still don't see why they don't have the route be the same both ways - either go all the way up Van Ness or don't...). Game was fun, though a bit chilly (and the Lions lost). On the way back, I found the bus waiting area.to be yet another site of confusion - they had several long lines with little indication what bus they were for! I did manage to stumble upon the line for the 77x though, and after a long wait and a standing-room-only bus ride made it back.

Tomorrow I'll be heading back to SAN via Amtrak trains and buses - still tempted to look at going via the Starlight or the SLO Surfliner bus connection, but not too enthused about having to get up earlier, call AGR and change everything early in the morning, and then get over to the Ferry Building to exchange printed tickets (which would require the use of Muni...) All in all an interesting trip, though I must say Muni can be quite confusing and nonsensical (no ticket machines in major stations? A bus that arbitrarily runs a shorter route in one direction?) However, I will say I thought the actual bus service/frequency was really good (buses every few minutes...on a Sunday!) Will definitely be back - maybe a trip on the Starlight will be in order then...


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## thully (Sep 17, 2012)

On my way back now - though I'm lucky that I am on my way and not waiting for the next train! Was planning on leaving the hostel for the Fisherman's Wharf bus stop around 8:30 (bus leaves at 9:15) but got held up a bit and didn't make it out until 8:43. I did make it there before the 9:15 departure to Emeryville, but barely - and the bus actually left the stop a couple minutes early! I hope they make sure all ticketed passengers are present before boarding - I'd be pretty mad if I got to the bus stop on time and it had left before I got there... This bus was a generic charter bus of some variety, as opposed to the Amtrak California buses I was on for other segments of this trip.

In any case, the trip to Emeryville was uneventful - though it was neat going over the Bay Bridge during the day when it is possible to see things. Pulled into EMY 20min or so before the train was to depart - noticed a tour group was apparently waiting for the train. Seems a bit odd that they have large tour groups on the San Joaquin's - wouldn't they want to opt for the Coast Starlight unless they had to go to one of the Central Valley cities (which I somehow doubt...)? As I waited, I saw a long Union Pacific freight passing through the station with empty cars (looked like the type used for intermodal containers). In any case, the consist seemed to be all-California Cars, so I hopped on one - a reasonably new-looking car, but not as good as a Superliner (though still way better than the single-level equipment I've been on). remembering that I didn't actually see a Superliner car in the SJ consist going north, I decided to go up to car 1 (where I sat before) right after the Richmond stop to see if it happened to be a Superliner with a California paint job - and it was! Ended up moving there - didn't know that they were painting Superliners California colors (they definitely aren't painting them Surfliner colors - all the Superliners I've seen in Surfliner consists have been generic Amtrak colors.

After leaving Emeryville, I had some great views of the Bay out my window - which I didn't see on the way up due to it being dark out. Also saw BART on the other side of the Richmond platform - seems like a fairly convenient transfer there, particularly if you want to connect between a train and a plane. Saw more of the bay up until Martinez, where quite a few passengers got on. Currently just outside of MTZ en route to Bakersfield, where I'll board the bus that will get me to my Surfliner connection at LAX.


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## johnny.menhennet (Sep 17, 2012)

While this specific car was in NorCal, you haven't a seen a Superliner painted in Surfliner colors?


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## thully (Sep 17, 2012)

No - I haven't noticed that, but now that you mention that I've probably been on a train with one, though I don't remember it clearly. It seems most of the time the Superliner in the consist has a regular Amtrak paint scheme, though...

With that said, do California corridor trains ever run with multiple Superliners?


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 17, 2012)

Nice trip report, and Im glad that it was a safe trip for you thully.


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## johnny.menhennet (Sep 17, 2012)

thully said:


> No - I haven't noticed that, but now that you mention that I've probably been on a train with one, though I don't remember it clearly. It seems most of the time the Superliner in the consist has a regular Amtrak paint scheme, though...
> 
> With that said, do California corridor trains ever run with multiple Superliners?


I saw one two weeks ago that had 2 Superliners. Both of them were silver rather than Surfliner colors, and I believe this was when the races were still going on so they had the 9-car consist.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 17, 2012)

Im assuming that the reason you wont see them all in Surfliner colors is because they pull a coach or two, or three, or *insert number here* from the yard, *as long as the LD trains wont miss them too much*, and they just insert them as needed into the consists. Also, are all of the ones they have, ones that were bought or wrecked or whatever? Those are the two scenarios I see as being possible.

I do like that one painted in Surfliner colors though, very sweet looking.


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## thully (Sep 18, 2012)

The rest of the trip on the San Joaquin was pretty uneventful - though I did find it funny that on the announcements for some to the short station stops they warned against getting off if that wasn't your station stop i.e. "stay on the train if you don't want to stay in Wasco". Thought that was kind of funny - though I'm sure others have been left behind in such a way (which would be particularly bad with some middle-of-nowhere flag stop on the Cardinal or Sunset Limited...)

Got off in Bakersfield, where the buses were all waiting for us -went to the one that was nonstop to LA (it seemed there was also one going to Glendale and some other stops as well...) Bus driver was kind of serious about everything - stating that if someone didn't secure their luggage and it hit another passenger, he'd throw them off the bus at the next exit ramp - which Wasco may well be preferable to! Bus ride into LA was also fairly noneventful - I did notice he took the 210 instead of 5 for part of the way (perhaps due to traffic?)

After getting something to eat at Union Station, I was quickly boarding the Surfliner - where I had my first encounter with the Dreaded Single-Level Consist. Since there obviously were no Superliner cars to go to, I ended up taking one of the front row seats (which have extra legroom on the Horizons and Amfleets due to the wheelchair area). From there, I was on my way to SAN - but given the consist, I couldn't help but feel like I was on the Wolverine. It wasn't too bad, though - in fact, it was kind of nice feeling like I was back on the Wolverine! There was one other thing that was odd - due to an apparent staff shortage, they announced they were not opening all doors at all station stops. The rest of the ride was uneventful, though - got to SAN basically on time and walked the short distance home.

All in all a good trip - though I will say it became a bit tiring given the length and going from early morning to late night. Though the SJ was interesting, next time I'll probably opt to go all in and take the Coast Starlight or just fly nonstop (at least I'd take BART if I flew..) In all honestly it would be nicer to have an overnight train option - may consider the overnight bus via BFD, though sleeping on that may be tough...


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 18, 2012)

Yeah, Id be pretty tired after that long of a trip too.

The part about the serious bus driver reminds me of some of Greyhounds drivers haha. The part about throwing people off at the next highway exit though, thats pretty mean spirited. I doubt they can actually do that though, due to safety reasons. I understand that luggage has to be secured to avoid injuring passengers, but for someone new to that experience, that sort of statement could easily make someone not want to take that ride again. Just my opinion


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## thully (Sep 19, 2012)

Yeah, I don't know how serious he was about that - in all honesty, I don't see them throwing someone off the bus at a highway exit unless there was an actual violation of state/federal law involved (in which case they'd be handing them over to the local police). I think I've had other bus drivers somewhat like that - I have some vague recollections of that from one of the Ann Arbor-Toledo runs. I've never experienced Greyhound to compare the experience there, though - my intercity bus experience is limited to a few Thruway bus routes and a Megabus from Ann Arbor to Chicago.

Not that I've had any really bad experiences on Amtrak Thruway buses - though I would prefer trains. Figure I may just stick with the LD-type trains (or just fly) when going on journeys more than a few hours, though - it's funny how 10 hrs on a corridor train can feel more exhausting than an overnight trip (even with Superliners on both). Thinking that the dining car and SSL really make a difference...

Probably take a break from the big trips now (though I have one planned for December). I'll definitely do some Surfliner (and perhaps Coaster/Metrolink) day trips though - love that I can do that here...


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 19, 2012)

Yeah, the dining car and lounge on the LD trains do make a big difference to me. Also, the LD coach seats are built more for comfort than the corridor trains. I saw that in a shop tour video on youtube. It was very interesting what the differences were between them.

Yeah, you can make some AGR point runs on the Surfliners and stuff.


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