# Caltrain electrification at risk



## BCL (Feb 6, 2017)

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/UC-has-a-front-runner-to-replace-Cal-s-10909324.php

They need federal funding to do that, and the opposition isn't really to Caltrain or electrification per se. It's mostly trying to stick it to the high-speed rail efforts, where electrification would be required for high-speed rail between San Jose and San Francisco.


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 6, 2017)

Lovely. Who needs technological progress when we have dirty political laundry to wash?

In fact, let's take a step in the other direction- Mr so-called President has spoken about "clean coal" isn't it? Let's bring back the steam engines! #MakeCaltrainRunOnCoalAgain !! I was born too late to see mainline steam action, maybe now is the time for its revival :giggle:


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Feb 6, 2017)

Could you not give Trump any ideas.


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## BCL (Feb 6, 2017)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Could you not give Trump any ideas.


The Republican House members from California are the ones who came up with the idea. They sent a letter to the new Transportation Secretary two weeks ago.


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 7, 2017)

BCL said:


> The Republican House members from California are the ones who came up with the idea. They sent a letter to the new Transportation Secretary two weeks ago.


I believe that was aimed at me, for my bigly tremendous idea- *#MakeCaltrainRunOnCoalAgain*


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## BCL (Feb 7, 2017)

Texan Eagle said:


> BCL said:
> 
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> > The Republican House members from California are the ones who came up with the idea. They sent a letter to the new Transportation Secretary two weeks ago.
> ...


Missed that.

Forget about coal. How about wood?


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 7, 2017)

BCL said:


> Missed that.
> 
> Forget about coal. How about wood?


No wood. You are wood. Low energy. SAD!


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## John Bredin (Feb 7, 2017)

BCL said:


> Texan Eagle said:
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> > BCL said:
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Except Trump didn't make loud and repeated (but vague and utterly unexplained) promises to lumbermen to get their jobs back, he did so to the coal miners. :huh:


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## jis (Feb 7, 2017)

The way to go is with Donkeys and Asses IMHO LOL!


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## BCL (Feb 8, 2017)

John Bredin said:


> BCL said:
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> > Texan Eagle said:
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There's one guy so emboldened by Trump's election that he's talking about massive increases in federal timber harvests in the Pacific NW. He's kind of ignoring that timber from federal land isn't allowed to be exported as raw logs, and the capacity to process logs is fairly limited these days.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 8, 2017)

Oh, just power it with biomass and clydesdales!


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## BCL (Feb 8, 2017)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Oh, just power it with biomass and clydesdales!


Like this?


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 8, 2017)

BCL said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
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> 
> > Oh, just power it with biomass and clydesdales!
> ...


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## BCL (Feb 9, 2017)

The best part is that it would provide employment for the guy who has to pick up the poop.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 9, 2017)

I hate you Wilbur

-Signed, Ed

Yeah, something like that....

But ya know what, we also forgot biodiesel!!!


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## BCL (Feb 9, 2017)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I hate you Wilbur
> 
> -Signed, Ed
> 
> ...


Those horses are actually pretty calm and happy doing that. It's pretty easy duty for a draft horse to pull a trolley on rails over flat ground. They've got Belgian drafts, Percherons, and Clydesdales. They used to have a petting zoo in back, and usually one of the horses would be there.

The Disneyland Railroad did run on B98. It's not running now that they're working on Star Wars Land, but when it comes back online I expect they'll still be running on biodiesel.

I wonder what they do with all that used cooking oil now. I heard that all their waste oil wasn't even enough, and they had to buy some from a supplier.


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## desertflyer (Feb 9, 2017)

Electric or not, CalTrain needs new motive power ASAP. One of their engines caught fire during the evening commute today: https://twitter.com/Caltrain/status/829868584092397569


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## cirdan (Feb 10, 2017)

I have a new idea for renewable energy.

We could grow trees. All they need is sunlight and carbon dioxide. They're pretty ecological and sustainable.

Then we could fossilize the dead trees in a process that takes millions of years.

The we could dig them out and burn them.

Hey presto, we have a method of using and storing solar energy that also keeps the mining companies happy.

I wonder why nobody thought of it before.


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## BCL (Feb 10, 2017)

cirdan said:


> I have a new idea for renewable energy.
> 
> We could grow trees. All they need is sunlight and carbon dioxide. They're pretty ecological and sustainable.
> 
> Then we could fossilize the dead trees in a process that takes millions of years.


Isn't that how they make Scotch?


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 11, 2017)

desertflyer said:


> Electric or not, CalTrain needs new motive power ASAP. One of their engines caught fire during the evening commute today: https://twitter.com/Caltrain/status/829868584092397569


Eh, this is nothing new. "Engine caught fire" is just one of the squares on the famous Caltrain Delay Bingo- 25 Reasons why Caltrain is Late today.


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## me_little_me (Feb 14, 2017)

jis said:


> The way to go is with Donkeys and Asses IMHO LOL!


It's already done that way in D.C. The congressional gravy train is powered by them (although gravy trains are considered freight).


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 15, 2017)

BCL said:


> I wonder what they do with all that used cooking oil now. I heard that all their waste oil wasn't even enough, and they had to buy some from a supplier.


I've heard that too - in fact, I thought I'd read somewhere that the demand for biodiesel outstrips the availability of it (kinda like the situation in Sweden where they burn trash for providing district heating - the Swedes recycle so much that there isn't enough trash and they have to import it from Germany).

LOVE Caltrain bingo!


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## BCL (Feb 15, 2017)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what they do with all that used cooking oil now. I heard that all their waste oil wasn't even enough, and they had to buy some from a supplier.
> ...


Anything running on biodiesel should be able to run on petroleum diesel without issue. I heard that Disney actually buys taxed road diesel and not #2 fuel oil like most railroads use. Untaxed fuel is supposed to be dyed red.

I'm pretty sure incinerator heating can be done with almost any biomass.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 16, 2017)

BCL said:


> I'm pretty sure incinerator heating can be done with almost any biomass.


True, but their plants were set up for garbage with pollution controls, etc, as I understand it. And their plentiful wood is too valuable to burn (getting way off topic, but their 16th century timber shortage led to early energy efficiency -heating moves).


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## BCL (Feb 17, 2017)

The first domino falls.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/17/feds-delay-caltrain-electrification-money/


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## BCL (Feb 23, 2017)

There's a White House petition circulating:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/support-9600-american-jobs-tell-fta-approve-funding-caltrain-electrification


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## jis (Feb 25, 2017)

BCL said:


> There's a White House petition circulating:
> 
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/support-9600-american-jobs-tell-fta-approve-funding-caltrain-electrification


LOL! They'll probably just declare it "fake" and carry on doing whatever they want.


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 27, 2017)

Fake or not, if it reaches 100,000 signatures, White House has to provide an official response to it.

It is sad that this affects 60,000 daily commuters yet there are a measly 9,000 signatures supporting it. We, as rail lovers and transit advocates, should all do our little part in supporting this at least.


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## me_little_me (Feb 27, 2017)

Texan Eagle said:


> It is sad that this affects 60,000 daily commuters yet there are a measly 9,000 signatures supporting it. We, as rail lovers and transit advocates, should all do our little part in supporting this at least.


If the local who use it don't support it, or even the locals who believe in it but are not in a position or location to use it, why should outside train lovers do so? I'd rather the money be spent in my area.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 1, 2017)

Is it well know locally that electrification is at risk? And the advantages even w/o any other, like, oh, say, high speed rail, changes?


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## Texan Eagle (Mar 1, 2017)

me_little_me said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > It is sad that this affects 60,000 daily commuters yet there are a measly 9,000 signatures supporting it. We, as rail lovers and transit advocates, should all do our little part in supporting this at least.
> ...


Is there a rail improvement project in your area that was shovel-ready and had federal funding to it taken away at the last minute? If yes, I will happily sign a petition to support that too. It's not you vs me. It is us aka people who like trains and transit vs those who want to deny funding to it.


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## Texan Eagle (Mar 1, 2017)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Is it well know locally that electrification is at risk? And the advantages even w/o any other, like, oh, say, high speed rail, changes?


Yes. All the local media has talked about it, and Caltrain itself is furiously vocal on social media- Facebook/Twitter about the project, its advantages, what the funding deferral means and so on. From what I am seeing locally, there is enough support within the Bay Area to have it done, but a lot of resistance and brigading coming from Central Valley Republican residents who don't use Caltrain and consider it "waste of money"


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## Anderson (Mar 1, 2017)

I'll be a bit colorful on this...but if funding is pulled then some of that cap-and-trade money CA has should be funneled to this. I'd also like to see a sign attached to those "Your tax dollars hard at work" signs saying "And with no help from the Federal government" (which, to be fair, also belonged on the Norfolk service...that was a 100% state project).

With all of this said, I put no small part of the blame on the former administration for not getting the contracting worked out on the way out the door. It's not like we haven't seen a version of this show before (WI, OH, and FL, oh my!) and the idea that what's-his-face from Southern California (the Congresscritter spearheading attempts to kill CAHSR) would try to lead a charge like this should not be considered the world's greatest shock.


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## Texan Eagle (Mar 1, 2017)

Anderson said:


> With all of this said, I put no small part of the blame on the former administration for not getting the contracting worked out on the way out the door. It's not like we haven't seen a version of this show before (WI, OH, and FL, oh my!) and the idea that what's-his-face from Southern California (the Congresscritter spearheading attempts to kill CAHSR) would try to lead a charge like this should not be considered the world's greatest shock.


One word answer to this- Atherton.

That little pain-in-the-posterior town of whiny millionaires has thrown lawsuit after lawsuit against Caltrain to stop electrification or any improvements from happening in their special snowflake quaint town in the middle of a metro area of 7 million people. The last lawsuit was thrown out by court on Sep 28, 2016. That did not leave much time for the previous administration to jump in and provide the funding.


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## John Bredin (Mar 1, 2017)

me_little_me said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > It is sad that this affects 60,000 daily commuters yet there are a measly 9,000 signatures supporting it. We, as rail lovers and transit advocates, should all do our little part in supporting this at least.
> ...


I don't think that the depth or breadth of support for Caltrain electrification should be measured solely by people's willingness to sign a whitehouse.gov petition. Some may presume such an act pointless or even counterproductive, as *jis* points out humorously.

I signed the petition but now receive White House emails, including four reminders in the last couple of days to watch the King's Speech Presidential address to Congress. The last one bore the vaguely ominous heading "Watch NOW".


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## Texan Eagle (Mar 1, 2017)

John Bredin said:


> me_little_me said:
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Before you submit your signature to the petition, there is an option to uncheck "receive emails from White House" that you conveniently missed. Even then, it is not too late. Each of the 4 emails you got will have an Unsubscribe button at the bottom. It takes one click to stop the spam from ever coming again.


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## John Bredin (Mar 1, 2017)

Texan Eagle said:


> John Bredin said:
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Thanks!


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## PRR 60 (Mar 2, 2017)

When the state tied the Caltrain electrification project to the high speed rail project, they created a situation where questioning the future of the high speed rail project dragged the Caltrain work into the discussion. Essentially, the grant for Caltrain became a grant for high speed rail. As the future of the high speed rail project has become questionable, Caltrain has tried to uncouple itself from the high speed project, but to some extent that is easier said than done.

As long as it is thought that the Caltrain electrification project is in furtherance of the high speed rail project, and that stopping the Caltrain work would effectively stop the high speed project, then this job has a problem. Perhaps the best way for the state to help move the Caltrain project forward would be to announce the suspension of the high speed rail project, and the reallocation of cap and trade revenue to other projects. Then, the Caltrain work could be assessed without carrying the baggage of the high speed rail project.

Then, there is this. On January 18 - two days before the change in the administration - Carolyn Flowers, then acting head of the Federal Transit Administration, announced approval of a $647 million FTA grant for the Caltrain electrification. She left that position two days later when the new administration and DOT secretary took office. Fortunately, she found a new job remarkably fast. On January 31 - 13 days after approving the grant - she was hired by Aecom, a large engineering firm, as head of its North American transit operation. Among the projects within that area: the Caltrain electrification project. She approves the federal grant for the project (later rescinded), then gets a high level job working on that very project within two weeks. Smells a little off.

From the LA Times:



> A top Obama administration executive at the U.S. Department of Transportation approved a $647-million grant for a California rail project in mid-January and less than two weeks later went to work for a Los Angeles-based contractor involved in the project, The Times has learned.


The full article is HERE.


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## seat38a (Mar 2, 2017)

PRR 60 said:


> When the state tied the Caltrain electrification project to the high speed rail project, they created a situation where questioning the future of the high speed rail project dragged the Caltrain work into the discussion. Essentially, the grant for Caltrain became a grant for high speed rail. As the future of the high speed rail project has become questionable, Caltrain has tried to uncouple itself from the high speed project, but to some extent that is easier said than done.
> 
> As long as it is thought that the Caltrain electrification project is in furtherance of the high speed rail project, and that stopping the Caltrain work would effectively stop the high speed project, then this job has a problem. Perhaps the best way for the state to help move the Caltrain project forward would be to announce the suspension of the high speed rail project, and the reallocation of cap and trade revenue to other projects. Then, the Caltrain work could be assessed without carrying the baggage of the high speed rail project.
> 
> ...


Yup, I saw that article as well and fumed. I'm pro CAHSR but seriously, at this point, I wish the CAGOP would get their Shi$ together and put up some meaningful opposition in Sacramento. We can't get one thing built or done that the State touches and gets screwed up.


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## Texan Eagle (Mar 2, 2017)

PRR 60 said:


> Perhaps the best way for the state to help move the Caltrain project forward would be to announce the suspension of the high speed rail project, and the reallocation of cap and trade revenue to other projects. Then, the Caltrain work could be assessed without carrying the baggage of the high speed rail project.


And what happens to all the construction for CAHSR that has already happened? CAHSR is not an on-paper project anymore, there are viaducts built in Central Valley already. Do we just abandon all of that to become a ghost town and eat up the cost?

This exists, and this is not alternative facts-


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## Eric S (Mar 2, 2017)

Agree, this delay (and possibly killing) of federal funding for Caltrain electrification is simply a political stunt - for a "jobs and infrastructure" administration in Washington to kill a project that would create jobs and improve infrastructure and is truly "shovel-ready" is absurd and should give pause to anyone holding out hope that rail and transit projects will fair well in the next few years.


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## ParanoidAndroid (Mar 24, 2017)

Texan Eagle said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > With all of this said, I put no small part of the blame on the former administration for not getting the contracting worked out on the way out the door. It's not like we haven't seen a version of this show before (WI, OH, and FL, oh my!) and the idea that what's-his-face from Southern California (the Congresscritter spearheading attempts to kill CAHSR) would try to lead a charge like this should not be considered the world's greatest shock.
> ...


I agree. This railroad has been there before any of those residents were even born. The fact that they move in near the age-old railway, then proceed to complain about it (not uncommon around the country) is appalling and selfish, IMO, unless the railway is invading their private property directly.


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## BCL (May 22, 2017)

The funding is back on:

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/22/federal-fta-grant-caltrain-electrification/

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Caltrain-electrification-project-back-on-track-11164688.php


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