# How is tipping done in a cash-less Amtrak world?



## flitcraft (Mar 14, 2021)

Now that traditional dining is coming back, are we allowed to leave cash as a tip in the dining car as before? And, if you're in the sleeper, there won't be a bill for the meal, so how can tips be added to a bill you don't get? 

I am assuming that handing cash to the sleeping car attendant on leaving the train would be permitted, right?


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## pennyk (Mar 14, 2021)

cash for tips is OK


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 14, 2021)

pennyk said:


> cash for tips is OK



Which doesn’t really make sense. Does it carry germs or not? But such is life.

I wish that Amtrak staff would switch to tips via PayPal / Venmo so I wouldn’t have to worry about carrying cash at all.


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## me_little_me (Mar 14, 2021)

I offer cash. If it bothers them to take it, then that's their choice but I don't use any form of electronic payment except for credit cards for anything except having personally having payments sent by ACH. It's the only one where I at least have an equal chance to fight in case of a problem. Everywhere else, the big guy has it stacked against you in case of a dispute.


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## Dakota 400 (Mar 14, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> I offer cash. If it bothers them to take it, then that's their choice but I don't use any form of electronic payment except for credit cards for anything except having personally having payments sent by ACH.



That is what I have done and will do as well. If an Amtrak employee chooses not to accept my cash gratuity, that is to my benefit. My net worth increases by whatever I was going to give to another.


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## flitcraft (Mar 15, 2021)

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I didn't want to get anyone in trouble if they weren't allowed to take cash. Many years ago, when I was working at a McDonalds as a teenager, I helped a family clean up a big mess at their table, and the father tried to give me a 5 dollar tip as a thank you. My boss saw it and warned me that I'd get fired if I ever accepted money from a customer!


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## me_little_me (Mar 15, 2021)

Amtrak attendants, IMHO, NEVER turn down a tip. A few, who did as little as possible for you in helping you board even if it was obvious you needed help and did as little as possible onboard, are there offering to help you get down from the train when you leave just to get a tip.
Once, when deboarding, I went over to the attendant from the next car and gave HIM the tip because he did more for my than my own attendant including helping me up onto the train with my luggage while my own attendant just stood there doing nothing.


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## Asher (Mar 15, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> Amtrak attendants, IMHO, NEVER turn down a tip. A few, who did as little as possible for you in helping you board even if it was obvious you needed help and did as little as possible onboard, are there offering to help you get down from the train when you leave just to get a tip.
> Once, when deboarding, I went over to the attendant from the next car and gave HIM the tip because he did more for my than my own attendant including helping me up onto the train with my luggage while my own attendant just stood there doing nothing.


Yeah, I've noticed how paralyzed they can get if it looks like you may struggle with baggage boarding. It takes quite a bit to move them into action. 
As far as cash for tips, it's easy, but I'm not opposed to PayPal. They helped me when I made a serious mistake with a purchasing transaction is Italy. I got refunded without a question.


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## Saddleshoes (Mar 15, 2021)

I suspect a cash tip is preferred by train crew.
A cash tip leaves no record.
A cash tip may not be shared with others.
A cash tip can be spent immediately.
A. cash tip is specific to the relationship between that passenger and that crew memeber.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2021)

I generally carry cash only for emergency use these days, at least in the US. So most of the tipping I do is via credit card for LSAs. There is no convenient way to do that for SCAs so I have to remember to take some extra cash to take care of them.

There are certain other countries that I go to which are primarily cash economies. There I carry wads of cash in the money belt.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 15, 2021)

I usually carry some cash but if I can't break a bill because there is no way to spend it then I'm not going to replace a $5 tip with $50 just because Amtrak has unilaterally restricted my payment options. Nor am I going to swipe a card on an SCA's personal phone or wire money through a third party app. If Amtrak wants to operate like an airline then perhaps we should tip like we're flying.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 15, 2021)

jis said:


> I generally carry cash only for emergency use these days, at least in the US. So most of the tipping I do is via credit card for LSAs. There is no convenient way to do that for SCAs so I have to remember to take some extra cash to take care of them.



Yeah, but if you're traveling by sleeper, the meals are paid for, so no need to use a credit card (unless you're buying wine or beer). Thus, I also bring enough cash for the LSA tips as well as the SCA. And when I collect my emergency cash reserve before the trip, I always make sure to break up at least one big bill into ones and fives for tips. (And the largest bills I carry are 20's.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Nor am I going to swipe a card on an SCA's personal phone or wire money through a third party app.



You don’t use square, swipe, PayPal or Venmo?


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## jis (Mar 15, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Yeah, but if you're traveling by sleeper, the meals are paid for, so no need to use a credit card (unless you're buying wine or beer). Thus, I also bring enough cash for the LSA tips as well as the SCA. And when I collect my emergency cash reserve before the trip, I always make sure to break up at least one big bill into ones and fives for tips. (And the largest bills I carry are 20's.


I usually have at least one alcoholic beverage and pile on the tips for the entire trip on the credit card payment for it . It has been a while even before COVID that I paid a cash tip to an LSA. I have my Alan Memorial Chard every time


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 15, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> You don’t use square, swipe, PayPal or Venmo?


I do not use them as a workaround for tipping when my cash is being refused for everything else.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I do not use them as a workaround for tipping when my cash is being refused for everything else.



Oh I see! I was saying I would prefer they would accept tips that way.

It seems to me, if it’s dangerous to use cash because of covid, it should be prohibited to use it all.

If Amtrak is using covid as an excuse to go cashless that is fine, but just come out and say it.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Oh I see! I was saying I would prefer they would accept tips that way.
> 
> It seems to me, if it’s dangerous to use cash because of covid, it should be prohibited to use it all.
> 
> If Amtrak is using covid as an excuse to go cashless that is fine, but just come out and say it.


Although, since the tip is a private transaction in some sense between two individuals, Amtrak really does not have much control over how it is carried out, unless the money flows through a transaction in which Amtrak is involved, e.g. a credit card transaction through the Amtrak POS terminal.

When I tip an SCA Amtrak has no involvement in that, and for all I and the SCA cares we could do it in Bitcoins or Zlotys too.


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## TrackWalker (Mar 15, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> If Amtrak is using covid as an excuse to go cashless that is fine, but just come out and say it.



Next up will be a processing fee for using that card.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 15, 2021)

jis said:


> and for all I and the SCA cares we could do it in Bitcoins or Zlotys too.



I think the SCA might be a little miffed if he got a tip in Zlotys.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2021)

jis said:


> Although, since the tip is a private transaction in some sense between two individuals, Amtrak really does not have much control over how it is carried out, unless the money flows through a transaction in which Amtrak is involved, e.g. a credit card transaction through the Amtrak POS terminal.



It’s not a private transaction when one of you is on company time and on company property.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It’s not a private transaction when one of you is on company time and on company property.


Whatever  I don't see Amtrak having the capability to enforce such things when they can't even get their SCAs to carry out major functions described in their job description.



MARC Rider said:


> I think the SCA might be a little miffed if he got a tip in Zlotys.


Not if he is about to go on a Polish vacation


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## TheCrescent (Mar 15, 2021)

How about on the Acela, in first class? The on-board staff is great. All I do is get a drink when I board and then I work the rest of the trip; I've had more than my fair share of Flexible Dining on the Crescent so I don't bother with food. And I don't need refills.

Shamefully, I've now taken 3 trips with the same crew and didn't have cash with me any of those times.

Next time, do I just hand each of them a $20 when I get off?

Unless I knew that I should tip based on this board and other online sources, I wouldn't expect to tip (being in the mindset of an airline passenger). But I will gladly tip- I just need to do it right next time.

Thanks.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2021)

Acela First Class is way too much like an airline ride, and I have never tipped an airline cabin crew.,


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## daybeers (Mar 15, 2021)

I think the no cash issue with COVID is BS and an excuse everywhere to not have to deal with heavy coins, different denominations of bills, and paying someone to take and receive cash. Not to mention many who don't have bank accounts or cards.


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## flitcraft (Mar 15, 2021)

I suspect we are going to a cashless economy sooner than later. The airlines have long since gone there. No card, no purchase.

Other countries are much less cash friendly than we are. My last international trip in the Before Times was to Copenhagen, where the cozy little bar across the street from my hotel and the ramen shop nearby were both completely cashless. China is going that way too. Even the little mom and pop vegetable stand in my neighborhood wanted Alipay rather than cash, and a street busker waved away my 50 yuan bill and asked if I could use my phone instead. Of course, there is a downside to a cash based economy, as I found out some years back in China, when my airfare and hotel expenses were reimbursed the day I was returning home with a box containing literally stacks of 100 yuan notes. I was worried that customs coming back to the US was going to profile me as a drug dealer or money launderer...


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 15, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> was worried that customs coming back to the US was going to profile me as a drug dealer or money launderer...



Amtrak police have asked me if I was carrying large amounts of cash before... lucky for me I’m not THAT generous of a tipper!


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## Eric in East County (Mar 15, 2021)

When traveling, we always carry some cash in bills of various denominations ($1, $5, $10, $50) to tip our Red Cap cart drivers, Sleeping Car Attendants, and taxi drivers. If we purchase food items in the Chicago Union Station Food Court, we’ll pay cash. (Several years ago, we bought food items in the Food Court using a credit card. Not long afterwards a fraudulent charge originating from Chicago showed up on our statement which we had to get corrected.) We use our credit card primarily to pay for our hotels, rental cars, for dining in restaurants we know and trust, and for purchasing items from businesses we know and trust.

We’re a little leery of the so-called “cashless society.” A thread posted elsewhere discussed at some length what would happen if a hostile player was able to shut down the internet and/or the power grids for an extended period of time. If this would happen while we’re traveling, our credit cards would be useless.

Eric & Pat


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## pennyk (Mar 15, 2021)

jis said:


> I have my Alan Memorial Chard every time



me too ❤


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## joelkfla (Mar 15, 2021)

daybeers said:


> I think the no cash issue with COVID is BS and an excuse everywhere to not have to deal with heavy coins, different denominations of bills, and paying someone to take and receive cash. Not to mention many who don't have bank accounts or cards.


I assumed that the problem was not the cash itself so much as the close face-to-face contact of the exchange. As opposed to swiping or scanning a card in a machine while the cashier is a safe distance away or behind plexiglass.

So not so much of a problem with a quick handoff of 1 or 2 bills.


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## John Bredin (Mar 16, 2021)

Personally I like going mostly cashless. I have to consciously remember to bring more cash on an overnight trip for cash tips (hotel cleaners as well as sleeping car attendants). But if you like using cash, Germany is the place for you. So many places in an otherwise ultramodern country that don't take credit cards! Unless Covid has finally done it, I don't see Germany ever going cashless. If you're going to Germany, think of how many dollars worth of local currency you usually get for a foreign trip and double it.

And definitely break a few Euros upon arriving to have coins for the nearly ubiquitous pay toilets. They're clean and worth the money, don't get me wrong. Used one in a commuter train station in Munich and it busted my theory that busy train station washrooms are a horror because users are in a particular hurry.


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## lstone19 (Mar 16, 2021)

Tipping on a cashless train today is no different than tipping in today's cashless airline club lounges. For the complementary beverages, I leave a dollar bill on the bar top and not once has it been refused due to them being cashless.  Cashless really means no cash for transactions between you and the business; tips, being between you and the server, are a completely separate matter.


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## Ziv (Mar 16, 2021)

I always carry $100US hidden on me for emergencies. One time when I was in Romania, I spent an extra 2 days in Cluj Napoca and spent my reserve down to $20 because all my friends there told me that ATM's in Belgrade worked fine for their ATM cards. I didn't think about the fact that all my friends in Cluj were Europeans using a different ATM type. (Starlink?)
So I arrived in Belgrade with $20US and none of the ATM's worked for me. I ended up having to buy a $16 bus ticket to Ljubljana to find an ATM that worked for US credit cards. While I was waiting for the bus I stopped into a cafe at the train station and ordered the least expensive sandwich on the menu for $3US. I counted my change to make sure I had enough and the owner of the cafe saw me doing so. He walked up to my table, tore up my check that he had in his hand and said, "Gratis". Then he offered me a little sweet cake for desert. 
Three lessons for me. One, never spend down your reserve unless you really need to. Two, there are very cool people out there and you tend to find them when you are in a bad spot. And, three, never assume when it comes to travel.
And luckily, US ATM cards worked in Slovenia at the time. But I still carry a larger reserve fund when I travel.



jis said:


> I generally carry cash only for emergency use these days, at least in the US. So most of the tipping I do is via credit card for LSAs. There is no convenient way to do that for SCAs so I have to remember to take some extra cash to take care of them.
> 
> There are certain other countries that I go to which are primarily cash economies. There I carry wads of cash in the money belt.


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## TrackWalker (Mar 16, 2021)

As a member of wheresgeorge and whereswilly I have a preference to using cash over cards.


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## AG1 (Mar 16, 2021)

The Amtrak employee manual used to forbid employees from solicitating tips. Does anyone have a recent copy too check that out ?
It really irks me when the FC attendant steps off the train at the door with a hand full of large bills as if five invisible passengers before me had stuffed his hand with the cash on exiting.


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## flitcraft (Mar 16, 2021)

TrackWalker said:


> As a member of wheresgeorge and whereswilly I have a preference to using cash over cards.


I had no idea what you were talking about, so I googled it. Who knew?? I've discovered a possible new hobby to further increase my procrastination with.


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## VAtrainfan (Mar 16, 2021)

So how does cashless work in the areas where a train leaves 4G coverage and can't process a card? Every time I take the Virginia NER, and we lose 4G between Ashland and Fredericksburg, the Cafe Car attendant always insisted on cash only for that half-hour or so when the train has no Internet.


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## tricia (Mar 16, 2021)

VAtrainfan said:


> So how does cashless work in the areas where a train leaves 4G coverage and can't process a card? Every time I take the Virginia NER, and we lose 4G between Ashland and Fredericksburg, the Cafe Car attendant always insisted on cash only for that half-hour or so when the train has no Internet.



Sounds like you already know the answer: It doesn't.

The folks who decided to require onboard purchases to "go cashless" on Amtrak are obviously clueless about the lack of cellphone signals through much of where Amtrak trains actually go.


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## me_little_me (Mar 16, 2021)

tricia said:


> Sounds like you already know the answer: It doesn't.
> 
> The folks who decided to require onboard purchases to "go cashless" on Amtrak are obviously clueless about the lack of cellphone signals through much of where Amtrak trains actually go.


Amtrak would rather lose sales than pay for satellite coverage or negotiate with a provider to put in a tower somewhere. They have never cared about money they never got. Usually it is because they don't put enough on board but sometimes it's "we just don't care"!

I wonder how many people attempt to give them cards that end up being declined? Probably small enough to allow the purchase then process later and just scan the passenger's boarding pass.

But then, I don't have their intelligence when it comes to making money - thank goodness.


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## Trollopian (Mar 16, 2021)

Last spring, in the early throes of COVID terror, I'd put on a mask, go to the nearby farmer's market, pick my produce (which had to be pre-bagged, no pawing through the potatoes), pay with a credit card, get home, wipe the credit card with bleach, wipe the doorknob, strip, and shower.

More recent evidence suggests that surface or "touch" transmission is very rare. You basically have to touch a surface with sufficient viral load, then touch your face. The overwhelming method of transmission is sharing stale air with infected and unmasked people. See Catching COVID from surfaces is very unlikely. So perhaps we can ease up on the disinfecting.

I'm still being very, very careful. (My sister, a cancer survivor, just got home from 10 days in hospital with COVID. Ironically, she had been advised last month not to get the vaccine yet, her white and red blood counts were low.) But I wouldn't hesitate to hand a $20 bill to an SCA. If I were traveling now on Amtrak, which I'm not.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 16, 2021)

When I’ve handled credit cards on trains we just enable “offline” mode when we don’t have a signal. I thought that Amtrak did the same and that was the reason they didn’t accept gift cards.


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## Cal (Mar 16, 2021)

VAtrainfan said:


> So how does cashless work in the areas where a train leaves 4G coverage and can't process a card? Every time I take the Virginia NER, and we lose 4G between Ashland and Fredericksburg, the Cafe Car attendant always insisted on cash only for that half-hour or so when the train has no Internet.


I've ridden the western LD trains, I don't recall any issues about having no coverage and paying. I thought they could still ring it up


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## jis (Mar 16, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> When I’ve handled credit cards on trains we just enable “offline” mode when we don’t have a signal. I thought that Amtrak did the same and that was the reason they didn’t accept gift cards.


I don’t think many people know that for micro charges you don’t require any connection to anything at the time the transaction is carried out. At that point it is just a local journal entry that is reconciled later. The threshold for such is set up as a parameter of the contract between the vendor and the service provider.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 16, 2021)

jis said:


> I don’t think many people know that for micro charges you don’t require any connection to anything at the time the transaction is carried out. At that point it is just a local journal entry that is reconciled later. The threshold for such is set up as a parameter of the contract between the vendor and the service provider.



The way we had it setup, it would automatically try to connect to a cell tower no matter how small the amount, if it didn’t connect we could retry, or “enable offline mode.”


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## OBS (Mar 17, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> The way we had it setup, it would automatically try to connect to a cell tower no matter how small the amount, if it didn’t connect we could retry, or “enable offline mode.”


Correct. Amtrak CC machines have the same technology and use that feature all the time.


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## Duane Witte (Mar 17, 2021)

When I travel I tend to carry more cash then when I am around home due to the fact that I'm usually out away from the major metro areas and sometimes you run into places that do not take credit cards. I suppose I got lucky when I rode the Southwest Chief In October of 2019 because I had 2 very outstanding SCAs and I showed my appreciation in my tip for all their help.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 18, 2021)

Whenever I pay for a meal with the credit card, I always leave cash for a tip (assuming I have the right bills on hand) since that goes immediately to the server without any credit card penalty vigorish taken out. Happy server = superior service next time in.


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## Dakota 400 (Mar 19, 2021)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> without any credit card penalty vigorish taken out.



You are suggesting that the server's tip is reduced by whatever the restaurant has to pay because the guest used a credit card was used to pay the check? If so, I was unaware of that practice.


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## railiner (Mar 19, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> You are suggesting that the server's tip is reduced by whatever the restaurant has to pay because the guest used a credit card was used to pay the check? If so, I was unaware of that practice.


I wasn't sure how that worked...
I used to go to a diner, where you paid your check at the counter, and when I paid and added a tip to the credit card receipt, the cashier/owner would take the cash out of the register, and give it to the server, on the spot. I have gone to a Chinese restaurant, where they asked patrons to pay all tips in cash, and not put on the charge card. But for the vast majority of places, I never learned whether the restaurant deducted the charge fee from the tip they gave the server...


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## Dakota 400 (Mar 19, 2021)

railiner said:


> But for the vast majority of places, I never learned whether the restaurant deducted the charge fee from the tip they gave the server...



Considering the fact most if not all restaurants pay their wait staff a very minimal amount and that the bulk of the wait staffs' income comes from tips, I am not certain the poster to whom I was responding is correct in his/her thinking.


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## me_little_me (Mar 19, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> You are suggesting that the server's tip is reduced by whatever the restaurant has to pay because the guest used a credit card was used to pay the check? If so, I was unaware of that practice.


Any decent restaurant (decent meaning the owner was decent, not the food or service) would pay the staff the full tip and absorb the fee. For a $30 meal where you leave a 20% $6 tip, that would be less than a quarter.

However, we all know some owners are like some corporate CEOs - greed is their prime reason for living.

Only real fix is to dump the tip system entirely and raise the cost to cover staff costs so they get a guaranteed wage. If McD can do it, so can other restaurants - not that McD pays good salaries.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 19, 2021)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Whenever I pay for a meal with the credit card, I always leave cash for a tip (assuming I have the right bills on hand) since that goes immediately to the server without any credit card penalty vigorish taken out. Happy server = superior service next time in.



I tip on credit cards when I can in order to maximize points. I’ve never heard of any servers who give better service to return customers who tip with cash vs. credit card. If a server is that petty than they will most likely be annoyed with me for some other silly reason anyways.


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## joelkfla (Mar 20, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I tip on credit cards when I can in order to maximize points. I’ve never heard of any servers who give better service to return customers who tip with cash vs. credit card. If a server is that petty than they will most likely be annoyed with me for some other silly reason anyways.


Everyone should get the same standard of service, regardless of how or how much they tip.

What you might get, though, is a nice smile and the joy of making someone happy.


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## Ziv (Mar 20, 2021)

Having worked for tips when I was in college, I can fairly safely say, that isn’t how it works. Stiffs (people that tip tip less than 15%) get the base level of care. Known tippers were treated like gold, and servers would tip off their friends when they saw one seated. The hostess usually gave you a heads up when she got hit as well. If there are freebies or comps to be had, the tippers get them more often than not. And we tended to remember their names, and greeted them by name when we saw them. The good ones remembered us by name, too. 


joelkfla said:


> Everyone should get the same standard of service, regardless of how or how much they tip.
> What you might get, though, is a nice smile and the joy of making someone happy.


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## jis (Mar 20, 2021)

I eat out in classy places with hostesses so rarely that at best this discussion is interesting but something that does not affect me much. 

OTOH, I tip generously unless the service provider is a dolt or acts like a dick.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 20, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Having worked for tips when I was in college, I can fairly safely say, that isn’t how it works. Stiffs (people that tip tip less than 15%) get the base level of care. Known tippers were treated like gold, and servers would tip off their friends when they saw one seated. The hostess usually gave you a heads up when she got hit as well. If there are freebies or comps to be had, the tippers get them more often than not. And we tended to remember their names, and greeted them by name when we saw them. The good ones remembered us by name, too.



But did you provide better or worse service if they tipped cash vs. credit card.


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## Ziv (Mar 20, 2021)

As a waiter cash was cool (though rare) but not that much better than on a credit card, but my restaurants all gave servers full value from credit card tips. Some don't, which may be illegal but I have heard of more than a few that dock the tips. 
The card tip removed any temptation to short the busboy, though. LOL!
I only waited tables when the hotel was jammed. I spent more time as a bellman or a doorman, and did so at nicer hotels. I worked at 4 different hotels, each one a bit nicer than the one before. Almost all bell staff tips were cash. And in the real world, that is all pretty much untaxed. Tough to qualify for a mortgage when 75%+ of your income is undeclared, as I found out. 
Bottom line is that in all 3 positions we took pride in being good at what we did and we wanted to do a good job for everyone. But we worked harder to excel for people we knew would tip well and we tried to get them freebies when we could. 
YMMV.


crescent-zephyr said:


> But did you provide better or worse service if they tipped cash vs. credit card.


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## ehbowen (Mar 20, 2021)

Another former waiter here (1999 timeframe), although only short-term. The restaurant (local chain) which I worked in did not deduct the charge fee from credit card tips...BUT, they charged me a commission (2% in training, raised to 3.2% after the first few weeks) on all of my sales! They used this as a "tip pool" so that they didn't have to pay full wages to the busboys and kitchen staff. So, yes, if someone came in and ran up a $50 tab, and didn't leave a tip, it cost me a dollar-sixty out of my own pocket for the privilege of serving that customer. The restaurant was supposed to chip in extra if I didn't earn at least the legal minimum wage, but they never did. I suppose I could have pitched a fit and filed a complaint with the labor board, but I was working my tail off waiting tables (plus doing the extra hour or two of kitchen/back of house labor which the restaurant demanded every day at $2/hr); I didn't have the time to be an unpaid bookkeeper.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 20, 2021)

Ziv said:


> Bottom line is that in all 3 positions we took pride in being good at what we did and we wanted to do a good job for everyone. But we worked harder to excel for people we knew would tip well and we tried to get them freebies when we could.



Oh for sure! Amtrak servers certainly remember who tips and who doesn’t.


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## John Santos (Mar 20, 2021)

ehbowen said:


> ... I suppose I could have pitched a fit and filed a complaint with the labor board, but I was working my tail off waiting tables (plus doing the extra hour or two of kitchen/back of house labor which the restaurant demanded every day at $2/hr); I didn't have the time to be an unpaid bookkeeper.


Non-tipped labor at 1/4 the minimum wage? I'm certain this is illegal.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 20, 2021)

John Santos said:


> Non-tipped labor at 1/4 the minimum wage? I'm certain this is illegal.



Paying any employee below minimum wage should be illegal but here we are.


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## John Santos (Mar 20, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Paying any employee below minimum wage should be illegal but here we are.


The legal minimum wage for tipped employees (such as waiters) is much lower than the minimum for non-tipped employees, but this case has a tipped employee doing work for which they could not possibly receive tips but being paid at the tipped rate. I doubt they've discovered a legal, though reprehensible, loophole, and are just simply stealing their employees' earned wages.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 20, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> I suspect we are going to a cashless economy sooner than later.


The ability to skim up to 5% of standard purchases, 10% of restricted purchases, and 20% of government services as a middleman is just too appealing. If anyone misses a single monthly payment now they owe you loan shark level interest rates on all debt. Merchant account shell games make card related fees invisible to most consumers and even those who know better can be convinced to look the other way with airline and hotel points.


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## ehbowen (Mar 22, 2021)

John Santos said:


> Non-tipped labor at 1/4 the minimum wage? I'm certain this is illegal.


Their position is that we ought to be able to make it up and average minimum wage with the tips we earned when we were waiting tables. So they had us do chores in back such as refilling ketchup bottles, preparing portions of butter, sour cream, etc. for the baked potatoes, receiving deliveries and putting them away in the cooler, and so forth. Also cleaning up after closing time. And it was all done at the tipped employee rate.


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## me_little_me (Mar 22, 2021)

ehbowen said:


> Their position is that we ought to be able to make it up and average minimum wage with the tips we earned when we were waiting tables. So they had us do chores in back such as refilling ketchup bottles, preparing portions of butter, sour cream, etc. for the baked potatoes, receiving deliveries and putting them away in the cooler, and so forth. Also cleaning up after closing time. And it was all done at the tipped employee rate.


That's where staff gets screwed by management. Dump the tips and paying a wage is the only solution. IMHO, it wouldn't hurt the restaurants as they can raise their prices to cover the cost, simplify their accounting, and, since everyone would have to do it, not cause them to lose business to competitors.

Edit:
I loved it on the Alaska ferry. At each table was a sign that said staff were government employees and were prohibited from accepting tips.

That's what Amtrak should do. Pay their onboard staff more and prohibit tipping along with requiring AND ENFORCING standards of service. An alternative is the tipping done on cruise ships. Tips are added to the bill (but could be modified) and are shared. If Amtrak chose this method, sharing should be between the specific car attendant (not between all of them) and the dining staff.


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## Exvalley (Mar 22, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> That's where staff gets screwed by management. Dump the tips and paying a wage is the only solution.


I much prefer the system in many countries where you pay a fair price for your meal and the server gets paid a fair wage without having to rely on tips. Some of the best service I have had has been in countries with no tipping (I'm looking at you, Japan.)

However, it's often the servers that object to an increase in their minimum wage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...inimum-wage-restaurant-workers-didnt-want-it/


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## Dustyroad (Mar 22, 2021)

I haven't been on the train in some time. What is the average tip for each meal in the dining car now? Or for the cabin steward if delivered to my roomette? I know the delivery to roomette will be more work. I want to make sure they get a decent tip, if the service justifies it.


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## Asher (Mar 22, 2021)

This is slightly off topic. but, the other day while thinking about how long it's been since I've enjoyed the services of anyone for any reason that requires a tip, how much money I have saved. It jumbled my mind when I tried to calculate the amount.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 22, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> That's what Amtrak should do. Pay their onboard staff more and prohibit tipping



Well Amtrak does 1/2 of that...



Dustyroad said:


> I haven't been on the train in some time. What is the average tip for each meal in the dining car now? Or for the cabin steward if delivered to my roomette? I know the delivery to roomette will be more work. I want to make sure they get a decent tip, if the service justifies it.



Same as always. Tip as you like. Everyone is paid well. 

I’m not going to tip an LSA for handing me a yogurt from behind a counter. 

I tipped my SCA $20 on the Meteor. A single overnight I’d usually tip $10. She took my orders, brought me my dinner etc.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 22, 2021)

anumberone said:


> This is slightly off topic. but, the other day while thinking about how long it's been since I've enjoyed the services of anyone for any reason that requires a tip, how much money I have saved. It jumbled my mind when I tried to calculate the amount.



That’s Very true... I’m saving $5 a week on coffee shop tips alone. I’d always tip a $1 at my local coffee shop. Now I’m making my coffee at home... I would tip myself but I can’t stand the attitude


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## Exvalley (Mar 22, 2021)

Yesterday I made an order from a takeout-only taco shop. My wife and I got four tacos, one margarita, and one side of guacamole. With tax, the order came to $47. My jaw hit the floor. To add insult to injury, the person asked over the phone if I would like to add a tip. I politely declined. I am almost always a generous tipper, but I do not believe in tipping at at counter service restaurants - especially when they are charging those prices.


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## me_little_me (Mar 22, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> That’s Very true... I’m saving $5 a week on coffee shop tips alone. I’d always tip a $1 at my local coffee shop. Now I’m making my coffee at home... I would tip myself but I can’t stand the attitude


I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldn't tip you either! Your coffee is terrible and when I broke into your place the other day to get a cup, the place was a mess. You want a tip? Unlock your doors; keep your place clean; make better coffee and keep it hot.


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## jis (Mar 22, 2021)

Dustyroad said:


> I haven't been on the train in some time. What is the average tip for each meal in the dining car now? Or for the cabin steward if delivered to my roomette? I know the delivery to roomette will be more work. I want to make sure they get a decent tip, if the service justifies it.


I generally use the 2-3-5 rule of thumb... $2 for Breakfast, $3 for Lunch and $5 for Dinner. As Bob Dylan here would say YMMV.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 22, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldn't tip you either! Your coffee is terrible and when I broke into your place the other day to get a cup, the place was a mess. You want a tip? Unlock your doors; keep your place clean; make better coffee and keep it hot.



Insult me and my messy house... but insult the quality of my coffee and you have crossed the line!!!!! Haha.


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## Dustyroad (Mar 22, 2021)

jis said:


> I generally use the 2-3-5 rule of thumb... $2 for Breakfast, $3 for Lunch and $5 for Dinner. As Bob Dylan here would say YMMV.



Thanks, that's a good rule to go by. And I do tip well to the cabin steward for his hard work in the car and my roomette at the end of the trip. I especially will now with covid and if the restrooms will be '' well '' taken care of and sanitized.


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## Dakota 400 (Mar 22, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> An alternative is the tipping done on cruise ships. Tips are added to the bill (but could be modified) and are shared. If Amtrak chose this method, sharing should be between the specific car attendant (not between all of them) and the dining staff.



On cruise ships, if you take the daily gratuity charge on your bill and divide it among those that receive a portion of that gratuity, the amount each receives has to be a very small amount. That's why, if the service warrants it as it usually does, I will give those service staff who deserve it an additional amount on top of the daily service charge.


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## Chatter163 (Mar 23, 2021)

flitcraft said:


> Now that traditional dining is coming back, are we allowed to leave cash as a tip in the dining car as before? And, if you're in the sleeper, there won't be a bill for the meal, so how can tips be added to a bill you don't get?
> 
> I am assuming that handing cash to the sleeping car attendant on leaving the train would be permitted, right?


So as of what date is traditional dining coming back? Is there a press release on this?


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## Cal (Mar 23, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> So as of what date is traditional dining coming back? Is there a press release on this?


May 24th, no press release that I can tell


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## Chatter163 (Mar 23, 2021)

Cal said:


> May 24th, no press release that I can tell


OK, thanks. So how do we know the date?


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## Cal (Mar 23, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> OK, thanks. So how do we know the date?


On Arrow, beginning May 24th (or sooner), it's showing traditional dining being served on all Western routes.


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## Chatter163 (Mar 23, 2021)

Cal said:


> On Arrow, beginning May 24th (or sooner), it's showing traditional dining being served on all Western routes.


OK, thanks. So for us Easterners, this means that we'll be back to walking to the dining car for our light menu.


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## jis (Mar 23, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> OK, thanks. So for us Easterners, this means that we'll be back to walking to the dining car for our light menu.


Eastern trains will revert to exactly the service they had before the COVID changes, possibly with certain COVID restrictions still in place TBD.


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## Cal (Mar 23, 2021)

jis said:


> Eastern trains will revert to exactly the service they had before the COVID changes, possibly with certain COVID restrictions still in place TBD.


Isn't that just no change?


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## jis (Mar 23, 2021)

Cal said:


> Isn't that just no change?


We don't know what residual COVID restrictions will be there in May/June. Even on the Western trains there may be some residual COVID restrictions so for example there may really not be a sit down in Diner thing. That is YTBD according to the Amtrak announcement.

Similarly, we don't know how the service on Eastern trains might differ due to residual effects of COVID. So the service on those will probably be close to as it is now, and not back to pre-COVID normal yet.


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## Chatter163 (Mar 23, 2021)

Cal said:


> Isn't that just no change?


Having ridden twice during the height of the pandemic, I had the same lite menu that the new dining had brought us in late 2019, just that we had to have the food brought to us in our rooms.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 23, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> Having ridden twice during the height of the pandemic, I had the same lite menu that the new dining had brought us in late 2019, just that we had to have the food brought to us in our rooms.



Which train was that on? I haven’t heard of any trains with diners requiring passengers to eat in their rooms. Only the Cardinal because of the single cafe car setup.


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## Chatter163 (Mar 24, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Which train was that on? I haven’t heard of any trains with diners requiring passengers to eat in their rooms. Only the Cardinal because of the single cafe car setup.


Last summer on the _Crescent _and_ Silver Meteor_. At the time, the Amtrak website stated that all food would have to be consumed at one's seat, or in sleepers. The seating areas of the dining cars were closed. Given the circumstances, surely that shouldn't come as any surprise.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 24, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> Last summer on the _Crescent _and_ Silver Meteor_. At the time, the Amtrak website stated that all food would have to be consumed at one's seat, or in sleepers. The seating areas of the dining cars were closed. Surely that shouldn't come as any surprise.



It does come as a surprise as that’s the first time I’ve read anyone report that was the case on any train operating with a dining car in the consist.


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## Chatter163 (Mar 24, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It does come as a surprise as that’s the first time I’ve read anyone report that was the case on any train operating with a dining car in the consist.


The food had to be prepared somewhere. I'm guessing that is still the case. We were given the dining lite menu to choose from; we didn't eat from the cafe car.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 24, 2021)

Chatter163 said:


> The food had to be prepared somewhere. I'm guessing that is still the case. We were given the dining lite menu to choose from; we didn't eat from the cafe car.



Sorry I said that in a strange way. Basically I meant any train other than the Cardinal. The Cardinal doesn’t carry a diner, only a cafe car.


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## Albi (Mar 25, 2021)

On a side note about the cashless policies onboard: 

all dining car servers and my sleeping car attendant gladly accepted my cash tips on the California Zephyr between Omaha and Emeryville this week.

I didn't purchase anything in the cafe section, I am sure that would have been mandated cashless. But tipping is still welcomed in cash, at least by the recipients! Also the baggage guy at Emeryville Station gladly took it.


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## me_little_me (Mar 25, 2021)

Albi said:


> On a side note about the cashless policies onboard:
> 
> all dining car servers and my sleeping car attendant gladly accepted my cash tips on the California Zephyr between Omaha and Emeryville this week.
> 
> I didn't purchase anything in the cafe section, I am sure that would have been mandated cashless. But tipping is still welcomed in cash, at least by the recipients! Also the baggage guy at Emeryville Station gladly took it.


And I'm sure the bigger the bill you hand them, the less chance it has Covid on it!


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