# which is better? Empire builder or via-rail Canadian?



## s10mk (Sep 13, 2017)

Hello everyone, I'm starting to think about a cross country trip for the spring. And I was wondering, which route is more scenic, the empire builder or the via rail Canadian? I might even consider making a loop on the two trains, westbound empire builder, eastbound Canadian or vice versa.

I'm aware that the equipment is nicer on the Canadian, and also the cost is substantially higher.


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## RPC (Sep 13, 2017)

If you include the _Empire Builder_, I'd vote for eastbound - you'll still traverse Marias Pass in daylight if the train is delayed. Note that everything between East Glacier and Devils Lake is "big sky country," i.e. remarkable primarily for its expanse.

I've never ridden the _Canadian_ nor am I likely to do so until my youngest graduates from college!


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## pennyk (Sep 13, 2017)

I have ridden both, but I rode the Canadian in December, and there was not much to see, other than snow, and more snow. I rode the Canadian back when it was less money than the Empire Builder - and loved it. I am glad I did it at that time. True, the equipment and the food is much better on the Canadian, but I am not sure I would pay today's prices. If you do not need a private room, a lower berth may be more cost effective than a room for one or two.


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## jebr (Sep 13, 2017)

I haven't done the west part of the Builder route yet (will be doing so in less than a month) but VIA's Canadian is "worth it", for me, and if paired with some good discounts (especially with a berth) it could be rather inexpensive (especially compared with a roomette on the Builder.) An option could be to pair it with the Builder with a transfer either in Grand Forks or St. Paul to Jefferson Lines (which runs a route to Winnipeg Airport.) I don't think a same-day transfer is feasible, but you might be able to get it with an overnight. It might wind up costing more after factoring in hotel rooms, though, so check the math on it before going that route.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2017)

The Empire Builder is one of my "home" trains, I use it fairly regularly to head to the east. I also have ridden the Canadian regularly for the last few years. There is no question in my mind that the Canadian is the superior experience. And ride it eastbound.

You spend most of the day in, or close to, the mountains the first full day, as opposed to the Empire Builder where you are done with the mountains by 10:30 am or so.

The prairies through either Saskatchewan and Manitoba or eastern Montana and North Dakota are pretty similar, though I find the long stretches of tangent looking forward in the dome to the next set of grain elevators marking the next little town on kind of hypnotizing.

However, with that said, going as far as Winnipeg gives you the real experience and is a long enough train ride (2 nights). The last full day through boggy northern Ontario is no great shakes. I just like being on that train, so I am ok with miles of swamp.

Be sure and keep an eye on Via "Sleeper Plus" deals page, http://viarail.ca/en/deals. For selected departures, you can quite a good deal if you are flexible, the deals only come up 4 - 8 weeks (at most) in advance. Right now, for instance, you can score Toronto-Vancouver lower berth for the 10/12 departure for $1275 CAD.

Also, if you do go, be sure and sign up for Via Preference. One Toronto-Vancouver trip in a sleeper will give you enough points (spend of $999 CAD) to qualify for the elite (Privilege) tier, which gives you a 50% off coupon you can you use at any time. Note the 50% is computed on high season full fare, but it is still a good deal. It usually beats the deals page, and you can book it on any departure in the inventory that still has availability in the "discount" fare level, so it is not nearly as restrictive as the "deals" and you can plan ahead. Of course, it is kind of passenger railfan crack, as you have to ride at least once a year in order to keep the discount, so they've got me.


I take the train in the off-season, when it is a "normal" train 8 car train full of Canadians instead of the 26 car tourist monster it becomes in the summer. Plus you have all day access to the Park car as a Sleeper Plus passenger in the off season.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 13, 2017)

I agree with the previous posters,good advice!

And booking a Lower Berth in a Section in the "Off Season" as was said, ( ie after Canadian Thanksgiving in October and in the Winter)can save you quite a bit of money, as well as being much less crowded on the Shorter consist!


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## Everydaymatters (Sep 13, 2017)

Your question was which is more scenic. I feel the scenery is better on the Empire Builder. Even better scenery is on the California Zephyr.

On the west bound EB and CZ you are in the mountains with all of their steep drops and rocky areas and beautiful views from on top of the mountains. On the Canadian you'll be more in the mountain passes and looking up at mountains. But that is just my opinion. Others on the same routes had a different impression.

If you take the CZ, you would have to change trains in Sacramento and go through the Cascades, which is also very nice.


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## s10mk (Sep 13, 2017)

Everydaymatters said:


> Your question was which is more scenic. I feel the scenery is better on the Empire Builder. Even better scenery is on the California Zephyr.
> 
> On the west bound EB and CZ you are in the mountains with all of their steep drops and rocky areas and beautiful views from on top of the mountains. On the Canadian you'll be more in the mountain passes and looking up at mountains. But that is just my opinion. Others on the same routes had a different impression.
> 
> If you take the CZ, you would have to change trains in Sacramento and go through the Cascades, which is also very nice.


Thanks for the input everyone, I've already been on the California zephyr and the southwest chief, so I want to ride the empire builder to complete the western US trifecta.....I sort of figured that the scenery would be similar through the rockies on the EB vs the Canadian, but I would like to ride the Canadian because of the classic equipment


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## willem (Sep 13, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> Be sure and keep an eye on Via "Sleeper Plus" deals page, http://www.viarail.ca/en/deals .


Lots of good advice, *zephyr17*. Thanks.

When i click on your link, I get a Page not found error. If I copy the text and paste http://www.viarail.ca/en/deals in the address bar (and delete any characters following the s in deals), then it works.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2017)

Corrected. The URL was picking up a trailing space and period, which was messing it up.


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## Skyline (Sep 13, 2017)

I did this circuit back in May...Westbound on The Canadian Toronto to Vancouver, Cascades Vancouver to Seattle, Empire Builder Seattle to Chicago etc. (stopped for three nights at the Izaak Walton Inn in Essex MT near Glacier National Park--a delight for both railfans and hikers!).

The Canadian has the far superior trainset, staffing, and food. The dome cars alone make it a better experience but it's so much more than that. The Canadian features on-board scenery and history narrations and daily events like beer tasting, wine tasting, games, etc.Timekeeping is usually (but not always) horrific due to being put in the hole for freight traffic on the often single-tracked route. Because we were so late, we saw all of the British Columbia scenery one would go through in darkness if #1 was on time. Looking at the schedule, assuming eastbound #2 left Vancouver on time, you'd have a better chance for that scenery in daylight. So if I had it to do over, I might have done The Canadian eastbound because you can't actually depend on #1 being 13 hours late!

The Empire Builder does have some nice scenery in the west and sometimes offers on-board historical narrations by NPS volunteers, but the Superliners are showing their age and lack of maintenance, on-board services can be graded A+ or F and everything in between depending on the crew, and Amtrak's food can't touch The Canadian's. Having said that, fares are less on Amtrak. Timekeeping on the EB is usually better than The Canadian's (but there are exceptions).

If you're going to ride both trains (and you might want to for the variety), do Amtrak #7 (westbound EB) for a better chance at the Glacier National Park scenery, and the eastbound Canadian for reasons noted above. If you have the time to stop at Izaak Walton Inn in Essex MT, at least check their website to see if it is of interest to you (www.izaakwaltoninn.com).


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## chakk (Sep 13, 2017)

I rode the Canadian a few years ago eastbound from Vancouver to Toronto and thoroughly enjoyed the four nights on the train. But if I were to do it again, I would probably get off the eastbound train in Winnipeg, take an overnight there at a hotel near the train station, and fly the next day to my US interchange point (Chicago or St. Paul) if I was planning to return west on the Empire Builder thereafter.

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## neroden (Sep 13, 2017)

The Canadian is sloooow. If that matters to you. Last time I checked, it was faster to take the Maple Leaf, LSL, Empire Builder, and Cascades from Toronto to Vancouver, which is a bit absurd.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2017)

Not quite true, assuming the Canadian is on time (big assumption) and taking using Amtrak trains exclusively, with no Thruway bus connections (you named trains all the way).

On Amtrak, you could leave Toronto at 8:20 am on Tuesday and get to Vancouver at 10:50 pm on Friday, with some quite long layovers in Buffalo, Chicago and Seattle for 83 hours, 30 minutes total transit time. Using 64 (7097), 49, 7 and 516.

On Via, you'd leave Toronto at 10:00 pm on Tuesday and arrive 9:42 am Saturday morning, for a total transit time of 80 hours, 42 minutes.

All told, I'd rather stay on slow but comfortable and classic Via train number 1 than have to hang around in the Buffalo-Depew station for 10 hours and 40 minutes. The 4 1/2 hours in Chicago and 8 hours and 25 minutes in Seattle wouldn't be nearly as painful, but that 10 hours in Buffalo is a real deal breaker.

With that said CN asked Via to slow their schedule down by about 12 hours and add an extra night on the road a few years ago, and they still won't keep it on time.


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## s10mk (Sep 13, 2017)

neroden said:


> The Canadian is sloooow. If that matters to you. Last time I checked, it was faster to take the Maple Leaf, LSL, Empire Builder, and Cascades from Toronto to Vancouver, which is a bit absurd.


 for me, the journey itself is my vacation. Where I'm going is almost immaterial. Plus, the Canadian still uses streamlined cars built by the Budd company, and it's pulled by all EMD power, now that's cool!


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## willem (Sep 14, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> All told, I'd rather stay on slow but comfortable and classic Via train number 1 than have to hang around in the Buffalo-Depew station for 10 hours and 40 minutes. The 4 1/2 hours in Chicago and 8 hours and 25 minutes in Seattle wouldn't be nearly as painful, but that 10 hours in Buffalo is a real deal breaker.


Speaking as one who has boarded at Buffalo Depew, I criticize your assessment as being too weak.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2017)

s10mk said:


> neroden said:
> 
> 
> > The Canadian is sloooow. If that matters to you. Last time I checked, it was faster to take the Maple Leaf, LSL, Empire Builder, and Cascades from Toronto to Vancouver, which is a bit absurd.
> ...


But too bad the EMDs are F40s, not F9s...


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## RPC (Sep 14, 2017)

Skyline said:


> <snip/>
> 
> If you're going to ride both trains (and you might want to for the variety), do Amtrak #7 (westbound EB) for a better chance at the Glacier National Park scenery...


Here I'll have to disagree. #7 reaches East Glacier at 6:45PM and West Glacier at 8:23PM, whereas #8 reaches West Glacier at 8:11AM and East Glacier at 9:49AM. If the EB is running a few hours late (not unknown  ), #7 will pass through Marias Pass in the dark, #8 at mid-day.


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## niemi24s (Sep 14, 2017)

Been a long time since I sniffed around for VIA Rail fares, so here's what I found for 1 adult on 25 Nov 2107 (the first date with nothing Sold Out) on the Canadian from Toronto To Vancouver (fares rounded to the nearest CAD$):

• Economy Escape $445

• Economy $880

• Economy Plus $1235

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• Up Berth Disc'd $877

• Up Berth  $1328

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• Lo Berth Disc'd $1032

• Lo Berth $1561

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• Cabin 1 Disc'd $1322

• Cabin 1 $2001

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• Cabin 2 Disc'd $1983

• Cabin 2 $3002

------------------------------------

• Prestige $8701

Other dates may have different fares


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2017)

Via's fare don't vary much within a season (they basically have 3, peak, shoulder and off), so those prices should be good for most of the winter. They don't do complex yield management apart from the number of spaces available at the "discount" rate. Also, since VIA no longer separates "rail" and "accomodation" charges, there are some differences from how Amtrak would price it. The Cabin for 2 (Double Bedroom in traditional accomodation-speak) price essentially represents a 50% surcharge charge for single occupancy of the double room since the request was for only one person. The per person rate for 2 people in a Cabin for 2 would be the same as 1 person in a cabin for 1 ($2001/$1322 CAD).


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## s10mk (Sep 14, 2017)

willem said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > All told, I'd rather stay on slow but comfortable and classic Via train number 1 than have to hang around in the Buffalo-Depew station for 10 hours and 40 minutes. The 4 1/2 hours in Chicago and 8 hours and 25 minutes in Seattle wouldn't be nearly as painful, but that 10 hours in Buffalo is a real deal breaker.
> ...


I recently road the maple leaf from Niagara Falls, On to Buffalo exchange street station. And I walked around downtown some, that is one run down city. Even the downtown in the middle of the day is dicey.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 14, 2017)

Speaking for myself Buffalo is Bovine.


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## willem (Sep 15, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> Via's fare don't vary much within a season (they basically have 3, peak, shoulder and off), so those prices should be good for most of the winter. They don't do complex yield management apart from the number of spaces available at the "discount" rate. Also, since VIA no longer separates "rail" and "accomodation" charges, there are some differences from how Amtrak would price it. The Cabin for 2 (Double Bedroom in traditional accomodation-speak) price essentially represents a 50% surcharge charge for single occupancy of the double room since the request was for only one person. The per person rate for 2 people in a Cabin for 2 would be the same as 1 person in a cabin for 1 ($2001/$1322 CAD).


Via touts its suite for 2, which is two cabins for 2 with the wall removed. I suppose this is similar to Amtrak's suite (for example, rooms D and E on a Superliner). However, Via's suite for 2 costs more than two cabins for 2 each for one person.

On Amtrak, the same is true, but I understand it is because the adjacent bedrooms are in different buckets. If only one bedroom is available in the lower bucket, it wouldn't necessarily be a penalty or upcharge for booking the suite, but it sounds like this would not apply to Via.

Has anyone here booked a suite on Via or Amtrak? Can anyone comment on the pricing scheme on either railway?


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## Skyline (Sep 15, 2017)

RPC said:


> Skyline said:
> 
> 
> > <snip/>
> ...


Yes, I see your point. I'd only be right if #7 was on time, and even then while days are longer during the summer. We shouldn't depend on that. My experience train watching from Izaak Walton Inn and hiking near Marias Pass earlier this year was that #8 was within 45 minutes of being on time all four days of my travel and visit, while #7 was too except one day when it was over four hours late. Those who visit the big map daily know that is almost too good to be true over a typical month.

However, my recommendation (in context) was based on IF a passenger was going to take the Canadian one way and the Empire Builder the other way. I stand by my recommendation that one do the Canadian eastbound to get the great BC scenery in daylight (usually), which would necessarily mean the Empire Builder westbound.


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## RPC (Sep 15, 2017)

Skyline said:


> RPC said:
> 
> 
> > <snip/>
> ...


Ah, now I am enlightened  and I concur. In general, as opposed to the "timed for Scenery" CZ, the EB is almost timed AGAINST scenery. For it to catch the Rockies and the Cascades it would have to be a CHI-MSP overnight train. Which would have its charms...


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2017)

The best schedule I had on the Canadian for scenery was back in the late 80s when it ran over the CP (a more scenic route in any case than CN). It left Vancouver about 3, so you had the Fraser River Canyon in daylight, at least the lower part. Then you hit Golden in the morning, and Field mid-morning, so you had the Rockies in mid-morning. I'd wake up coming down the hill from the Connought Tunnel in Rogers Pass.

Better timing on a better route. Sigh. At least it is still running, somewhere.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2017)

willem said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > Via's fare don't vary much within a season (they basically have 3, peak, shoulder and off), so those prices should be good for most of the winter. They don't do complex yield management apart from the number of spaces available at the "discount" rate. Also, since VIA no longer separates "rail" and "accomodation" charges, there are some differences from how Amtrak would price it. The Cabin for 2 (Double Bedroom in traditional accomodation-speak) price essentially represents a 50% surcharge charge for single occupancy of the double room since the request was for only one person. The per person rate for 2 people in a Cabin for 2 would be the same as 1 person in a cabin for 1 ($2001/$1322 CAD).
> ...


On Via, the 50% surchage applies for the two double bedrooms that make up the suite each occupied by a single person. It is quite simple. If you had four people in a bedroom suite, the per person price would be the same as two in a double bedroom, or one in a roomette.

On Amtrak you pay the accomodation charge for each room. If they are in separate buckets, one is at one bucket price, the other at the other.

I think Via's per person pricing scheme is more in line with what people expect today and is more understandable to the general public. Amtrak's rail + accomodation scheme is how the railroads always did it and is a holdover in that sense. I like Amtrak's scheme better, it is a "hotel room" model, you buy the transportation fare, then buy the room. But then again I am very used to it.

Physically, it is just like Amtrak. There is a removable barrier between certain rooms that can be opened up. Makes sense, since Amtrak's bedrooms (deluxe bedrooms) were modeled after the double bedroom, although perceptibly bigger. Pullman-Standard designed the Superliners, after all.


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## willem (Sep 15, 2017)

zephyr17 said:


> willem said:
> 
> 
> > zephyr17 said:
> ...


 I must be dense, or I didn't make myself clear. The Via suite for 2 costs more than two cabins for 2 each occupied by one person. Put another way, the cost of a suite for 2 was more than double the cost of one cabin for 2 occupied by one person. I believe this is contrary to your explanation, although my ability to misunderstand is vast.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2017)

Well, maybe there is an extra surcharge for the two rooms, or the first bedroom was the last in the "Discount" inventory and the second was in the regularly priced inventory. With 2 rooms at the 50% single surcharge, they are missing out on one whole fare, so an additional surcharge would not surprise me. Especially, if they "tout" it. Frankly, I haven't noticed that they really tout it, especially for for two people. The closest I have seen is the brochure where it talks about suites and "To accomodate four persons, please contact us." There isn't a suite option on the web booking engine, just Cabin for 1, 2.

With VIA it is pretty easy to figure out, just use the Cabin for 1 price per person as the base and you can probably impute what is going on. VIA's pricing is pretty straightforward. Have to have the actual quotes to do it, though.


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## Skyline (Sep 15, 2017)

RPC said:


> Ah, now I am enlightened  and I concur. In general, as opposed to the "timed for Scenery" CZ, the EB is almost timed AGAINST scenery. For it to catch the Rockies and the Cascades it would have to be a CHI-MSP overnight train. Which would have its charms...


And if it is on time, the westbound Canadian is timed against scenery too. When planning the trip, I was hoping to be about six hours late to counteract that. Be careful what you wish for. We were 13+ hours late, but we did get a lot of scenery most folks miss.

It was mid-May, and there were 28 cars of all types in the consist. Like a mid-summer Canadian but slightly lower fares and very few young people. Myriad senior tour groups from Britain, Australia, and elsewhere all on the same train. Additionally we were deadheading a Rocky Mountaineer coach which more than one crew member insisted was causing #1 that trip to adhere to slow orders. I never got a real explanation for that though. Is that even plausible?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2017)

The Slow orders could have been because of a defect in the Deadhead Rocky Mountain Car, but the usual reasons for Late to Very Late Canadians are due to the many Long freights receiving dispatching priority.


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## thully (Sep 19, 2017)

Been thinking about taking either (or both) of these trains at some point in the near future - was actually looking to do so for the Gathering, though by the time I decided I was going the fares were kind of high.

Thinking I may make a loop trip out of it at some point- living in Michigan makes this pretty easy to do (as I'd take the Wolverine to/from the EB and VIA Corridor from Windsor to/from the Canadian. Any idea which direction would be better to do it in? From this thread, I get the impression that both trains are better going eastbound as far as scenery, though the season would factor into it as well with more daylight in summer.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 19, 2017)

Most of us recommend taking the Canadian in the "OFF Season"/Winter since it is much cheaper and you can use the Park Car anytime. ( consider getting a Lower Birth/ best deal they have on a Discounted Fare).

Eastbound from Vancouver to Toronto is the best way to Roll since you see the Rockies in Daylight.Expect it to be LATE to Very Late either way!

As for the Builder, theres 2 ways to go, the Seattle Section (#7/8) and the Portland Section (#27/#28).

Westbound on #8 out of Seattle has the best scenery since you see Puget Sound, some of the Cascades and Glacier Park and Minnesota/Wisconsin in Daylight.

If you take the Portland Section ( they join/Split @ Spokane @ O-Dark- Thirty) you ride up the Columbia in The dark Eastbound in the Winter but in Daylight Eastbound.

All things considered Eastbound on the Canadian and Empire Builder is probably the best overall way to roll. YMMV


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## JRR (Sep 20, 2017)

I don’t know about the winter, but this summer, on the Canadian, only the “Prestige” passengers were able to access the Park Car.

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## tommylicious (Sep 20, 2017)

The Canadian is a must for reasons other than scenery as well. The vintage equipment, its excellent condition, the outstanding staff, and the truly amazing food make it all worthwhile.


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## Chessie (Sep 20, 2017)

Just came back from the Canadian.

We did a triangle:

Flew to Edmonton, picked rental car for a road trip through Jasper, the icefield highway to Banff and then to Golden, Revelstoke, Vernon, Kamloops and finally Vancouver (took 11 days) and then returned the rental car in Vancouver and took the Canadian to Edmonton.

Great experience! I highly recommend it.


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## Lonestar648 (Sep 20, 2017)

I prefer the EB eastbound from Seattle going along the Sound, though the eastbound Portland section is beautiful as well, just no dining car, but a decent box dinner. I have not done the Canadian yet, Summer pricing and availability when I can travel have been a deterrent.


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 20, 2017)

JRR said:


> I dont know about the winter, but this summer, on the Canadian, only the Prestige passengers were able to access the Park Car.


Then someone got it wrong.....hope you didn't miss out on the Park Car!

All Sleeper passengers have access to the Park Car yearround except it is restricted to Prestige only in the summer on the first night only departing Toronto and Vancouver..and also most mornings. From 2pm on all sleeper passengers have access to the Park Car even during the summer.

_"Access to the Prestige Park car: Starting April 30, 2017, during peak season access to the Prestige Park Car will be limited to scheduled times for Sleeper Plus passengers. Sleeper Plus passengers will be able to access the Prestige Park car on the following schedule: from 2:00PM until last call 10:30PM, with the exception of evenings upon departure from Toronto and Vancouver where access will be exclusive to Prestige passengers. *Scheduled access times are subject to change._

A select number of seats in the Prestige Park car are reserved for our Prestige passengers at all times in the scenic dome (year-round)"

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/AMENITIES_ENG.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-amenities


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## JRR (Sep 20, 2017)

Interesting info. Wish I had that while on the trip. We were advised otherwise.

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## JRR (Sep 20, 2017)

We did have access to the Park Car on the Ocean and enjoyed it very much, especially the Railfan view and accompanied entertainment.

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## Skyline (Sep 20, 2017)

NS VIA Fan said:


> JRR said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know about the winter, but this summer, on the Canadian, only the Prestige passengers were able to access the Park Car.
> ...



That was our experience in May, too. After 2pm we could use the Park car because we were in regular sleepers. The first two rows of seats in the dome were off-limits to anyone not travelling Prestige. These were clearly marked.

The Park is classic LD railroading, upgraded. Not to be missed.


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## Lonestar648 (Sep 22, 2017)

How many Prestige cars are in a consist? How does the Canadian monitor who has access? Is it the honor system or does the staff check tickets?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 22, 2017)

There appear to be 2 Prestige Chateaus, plus the Prestige rooms in the Prestige Park in the summer. One Prestige Chateau in the winter.

Since I ride in the off season, I don't know about how access is controlled to the Park when it is entirely restricted. In the winter, the first two rows have Prestige only marked, people generally respected it.


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## JRR (Sep 22, 2017)

My recollection is that we were given "wrist bands" to wear which identified us as sleeper car riders.

I am not sure about the "Prestige" riders, but they had their own separate lounge area in the Jasper Station where we got on, and were taken by shuttle to their cars which were at the end( with the exception of the trailing Park car) of our 27 car consist.

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## Maverickstation (Sep 22, 2017)

We were on The Ocean a few weeks back and all Sleeper Plus riders were given wristbands to identify who could use the Park Car, and for that matter the 2nd dome Car as well. These Dome Cars are true gems of the past, and I would recommend riding them while VIA is still using them.

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## zephyr17 (Sep 22, 2017)

When I rode it last fall, there were no wrist bands. They just knew who was who. Of course, it was an 8 car train that wasn't full, so they could keep track of who was who, as opposed to the 26+ car behemoth it becomes in the summer.

I am riding again, departing Vancouver on 10/31. I'll post what they do.


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## Maverickstation (Sep 23, 2017)

As to why The Canadian has it over the Empire Builder,there is nothing like riding in a Vista Dome, and an Observation Car.


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## JRR (Sep 23, 2017)

And the food was outstanding!

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## s10mk (Jan 23, 2018)

Op here.

Sorry to bump an old thread. But I've been getting ready to book my tickets. I'm planning on traveling in early may, and to get low buckets on amtrak, I need to book early..but via rail sleeper plus deals are only available a few weeks or at most a month in advance. Would it be a bad idea to book the amtrak portions of my trip now, and wait for sleeper plus deals on via rail?


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## zephyr17 (Jan 23, 2018)

There is no telling whether or not your city pairs will become available on the sleeper plus deals on the dates you want. If you try to shoot for the deals, you need to keep your plans flexible, so if you book Amtrak, you should do it in such a way that at least a couple of departures of the Canadian are available. Also, just FYI, most of the deals lately seem to be only for berths, not rooms, not sure if you care, though.

You need to allow for the Canadian's truly catastrophic on time performace in your travel plans, 10 hours late is absolutely routine, 24 hours late is not uncommon now, and a recent trip was 44 hours late. You need at least a day layover at your endpoint and, the way it is performing now, two days is not a bad idea. Also, one more reason to go eastbound rather than westbound is they do a same day turnaround in Toronto, and the horribly late eastbound train delays the departure of the westbound for hours and hours.

Sign up for Via's frequent traveler program, Preference. If you spend over $999 CAD in one year, you qualify for their elite tier and you will get a 50% off (peak fare) coupon for Sleeper Plus that you can use any time and reserve whenever you like.

Finally, bear in mind that in May the Park Car restrictions will be in effect.


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## s10mk (Jan 23, 2018)

zephyr17 said:


> Sign up for Via's frequent traveler program, Preference. If you spend over $999 CAD in one year, you qualify for their elite tier and you will get a 50% off (peak fare) coupon for Sleeper Plus that you can use any time and reserve whenever you like.
> 
> Finally, bear in mind that in May the Park Car restrictions will be in effect.


I already signed up for vias preference program, so ill be able to apply the cost of this ticket towards the 999 cad yearly limit.
I wouldn't mind a cabin for 1, but more than likely ill be getting a lower berth for my trip. I may have misunderstood the park car restrictions, I thought any sleeper plus passengers could ride in the park car.

But I digress, after some thinking..I might split this up in two separate trips. In march, I might fly to Vancouver, and ride the Canadian to Toronto. I would really like to experience the Canadian this year. Then in May, I might do a CZ, CS, EB loop. For the sake of planning and simplicity, that might work out a little better


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## zephyr17 (Jan 23, 2018)

In high season, which May is, access to the Park car is reserved for Prestige class passengers for a good part of the day. From Via's website:

*Access to the Prestige Park car:* During peak season*, access to the Prestige Park Car will be limited to scheduled times for Sleeper Plus passengers. Sleeper Plus passengers will be able to access the Prestige Park car on the following schedule: from 4:00PM until last call 10:30PM, with the exception of evenings upon departure from Toronto and Vancouver where access will be exclusive to Prestige passengers. Scheduled access times are subject to change. *Peak Season 2018: April 29 – October 11, 2018

Also, note that when I rode it in November, in talking with passengers and staff, I heard that the sometimes the Park was restricted entirely to Prestige all the time when the Prestige load was high during the summer.

I've ridden the Canadian in the high season and the off season and I much prefer the off season version of the train, it isn't a 26 car monster, it is a lot lower key and relaxed. So I think your March plan is probably a good one. Also, I highly recommend going eastbound, better schedule for scenary, especially considering the delays the train is currently encountering, and since there is not a same day turn in Vancouver, a more reliable departure time. Parenthetically, when we were arriving 10 hours late into Toronto in November, I heard over the radio the service manager announcing the departure and rest plans for the crew. They were planning for a 2 am westbound departure. That did not sound like fun.


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## s10mk (Feb 1, 2018)

Hi everyone, thanks for your help. I'm booked on the CZ westbound, CS north, and the EB eastbound. Pictures to follow!


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## s10mk (Jul 30, 2019)

Hi everyone, sorry for bumping an old thread. But I'm pretty excited, viarail has a sale on sleeper plus class, and I just booked an upper berth on the eastbound Canadian from Vancouver to Toronto. This will be my first time on the Canadian, and tips?


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 30, 2019)

Nice trip! Please look @ the old Trip Reports on AU and Google info about the Canadian,there's tons of it on this site as well as lots of others.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 31, 2019)

Congrats! You're going to love it. And upper berths are real bargains, you still get all the meals (which are amazing), and access to the first class dome car or the Park dome car, depending on the season and time of day. During the summer season, the Park car is reserved for the Prestige customers for some of the day. Be sure to be up in the Dome around 4 or 5pm when they do a free wine/beer/cider tasting with appetizers. 

What time of year are you going? That could help with tips of what it will be like on the train. Summer - long train, lots of people (but not crowded) and huge party fun. Winter, much more intimate, easy to get seats in the Dome, and get to know your fellow travelers fun.


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## Seaboard92 (Jul 31, 2019)

It’s funny when I went on the Canadian in July of last year I felt the more intimate party style. Everyone in our assigned activity car knew each other by first name on day 2 and got to know each other. I roamed with the musicians though.


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## drdumont (Aug 1, 2019)

Mazel Tov! The Canadian is on my bucket list, as soon as I bag the EB and the SFO-Chicago (can't keep the SFO and the LA train names straight). IF you look on IMDB you can find the Discovery channel (I think) called Mighty Trains which had a great show about the Canadian. If you can't find a copy, get in touch with me and I will get a copy to you.


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## velotrain (Aug 1, 2019)

The major rap I've read with the berths is that you spend the day seated face to face with your berth-mate, and the staff decide when you get up and go to bed since it is either two seats or two beds, and both must be switched at the same time.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 1, 2019)

No-one spends any time sitting in the Day time Seats, there's Dome Cars and the Park Car with Lounge to hangout in as well as walking the Train for exercise on the Loooong Journey with Wonderful Food and Drink to tempt you to gain weight!

The only Negative I see with the Upper Berth is No Window to see out, but there is much more room than in a Superliner Roomette and the bedding is First Rate, (best Rests I've ever have been in Sections)and the Price is good for this Great Journey compared to the Expensive Rooms!


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## Seaboard92 (Aug 2, 2019)

It’s also far more likely you’ll get a section on one of the last minute sleeper plus deals. Whereas a room often times will be sold out. 

For instance on the Canadian I’m riding in September. 
Availability 
Sections-VCVR-TRTO
Roomettes- JASP-TRTO
Doubles, and prestige are sold completely out the entire route.


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## tommylicious (Aug 2, 2019)

I vote The Canadian. That train is a focus of pride by the Canadian government, and that pride comes thru start to finish. Incredible service, food, scenery, equipiment. Re: Park Car-- while beautiful, I found it very uncomfortable since it was the last car. Worth a look but never stayed.


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## dogbert617 (Aug 2, 2019)

drdumont said:


> Mazel Tov! The Canadian is on my bucket list, as soon as I bag the EB and the SFO-Chicago (can't keep the SFO and the LA train names straight). IF you look on IMDB you can find the Discovery channel (I think) called Mighty Trains which had a great show about the Canadian. If you can't find a copy, get in touch with me and I will get a copy to you.



Whenever you do the Empire Builder(assuming you meant that by EB), I would try to do that going east, just to ensure you see all of the section going through Glacier National Park in northwest Montana in the daylight. If it isn't summer and you're taking the Empire Builder west, there is a chance it might get dark, before you get all the way through that section of the EB route. And I assume you likely know that the train is combined and split up, in Spokane. The dining car goes to Seattle, while the observation lounge/cafe car goes to Portland btw. Latter means you'll only get boxed meals, if you're in a sleeper between Spokane and Portland either way.

BTW about the SF-Chicago train(which technically starts in Emeryville btw, just across the bay from San Francisco and that it is next door to Oakland), that train is called the California Zephyr. The train that runs between LA and Seattle, is called the Coast Starlight.



Brian Battuello said:


> Congrats! You're going to love it. And upper berths are real bargains, you still get all the meals (which are amazing), and access to the first class dome car or the Park dome car, depending on the season and time of day. During the summer season, the Park car is reserved for the Prestige customers for some of the day. Be sure to be up in the Dome around 4 or 5pm when they do a free wine/beer/cider tasting with appetizers.
> 
> What time of year are you going? That could help with tips of what it will be like on the train. Summer - long train, lots of people (but not crowded) and huge party fun. Winter, much more intimate, easy to get seats in the Dome, and get to know your fellow travelers fun.



Sure sounds like how things used to be(i.e. wine tastings), on Amtrak western long distance trains.  And that special dome car just for sleepers, sounds a lot like the now discontinued Pacific Parlour Car on Coast Starlight.


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