# Ideas for AGR Amtrak Travel Awards



## jmbgeg (Aug 26, 2009)

I use my AGR points for sleeper awards. Here are a couple of ideas for new award categories:

-Half off paid roundtrip fare award: Some of the hotels and other travel providers have offered 50% off purchase price awards for a certain point redemption level. What about an award where you could purchase a sleeper rail fare and accomodation for 50% of the best available fare for a roomette, family bedroom or deluxe room? If they wanted to limit the number of redemptions, limit it to rooms avilable 7 or 10 days from departure. That could help clear remaining room inventory. Others might argue that it would be wrong-headed because it would discount high bucket fares.

-Require less points for a round trip award than a one way: Allow for round trip awards at 80% or 90% of two one way awards.

Let's see who agrees or disagrees. :unsure:


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## BeckysBarn (Aug 26, 2009)

How about paying the coach fare & upgrading, with points, to a sleeper.

I do like the 50% off ideas.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 27, 2009)

BeckysBarn said:


> How about paying the coach fare & upgrading, with points, to a sleeper.
> I do like the 50% off ideas.


Ill go with this idea,its excellent!!!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...

I think the AGR system is already more than fair.


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I think the AGR system is already more than fair.


Only if you live in the US or Canada.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I think the AGR system is already more than fair.
> ...


Oh cry me river.


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Neil_M said:
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> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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Not crying child, just making a point.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

Well considering Amtrak is a national rail network for the USA-- I don't see why they should have to go through hoops to please people from the UK with AGR. Provide good service, always. But you have some serious entitlement issue with Amtrak-- it doesn't owe you more than anybody else. Your lame criticisms of AGR could easily be said for those of us who live outside the NEC or West Coast...


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Well considering Amtrak is a national rail network for the USA-- I don't see why they should have to go through hoops to please people from the UK with AGR. Provide good service, always. But you have some serious entitlement issue with Amtrak-- it doesn't owe you more than anybody else. Your lame criticisms of AGR could easily be said for those of us who live outside the NEC or West Coast...


If you pay cash to travel on Amtrak then why should your country of residence matter? National network for the US? So only US citizens can use it?

"Going through hoops"?? Drivel. Utter drivel. How would me being in the UK make any difference to Amtrak?

How is it any different to you being a member of BA's frequent flyer scheme or me being in Continental's?

If you are a customer of an organisation, then why are some people excluded from any reward scheme? When I was in Portland earlier in the year a coffee shop offered me a card to get a free drink after buying 6, or something similar. How is that different to Amtrak AGR?

Proper explanation please, not your usual nonsense.

Ok, just did a quick maths session and my Amtrak mileage is just over 15,000. Less than some on here, but more than others, so why do I not get the same entitlement?


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## rrdude (Aug 27, 2009)

I agree, I can think of no reasonable explanation of requiring living in the USA as a condition for membership. IF it's an "Administrative Burden" (costs more to mail tickets, handle disputes, etc., etc.) then simply slap a reasonable FEE on those who live outside USA.

As far as I can decipher, your money is just as good as my money to Amtrak. You paid them cash, you rode the trains, you DESERVE to accumulate the points.

I'm assuming that you have considered setting up "phantom USA address" and found this not acceptable?

(I've never read the fine print, on almost anything, let alone the AGR T&C, so forgive my ignorance)


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

rrdude said:


> I'm assuming that you have considered setting up "phantom USA address" and found this not acceptable?
> (I've never read the fine print, on almost anything, let alone the AGR T&C, so forgive my ignorance)


The first line states you should be 'a resident of the US or Canada', so strictly speaking I suppose even just having a 'safe' address would be wrong, but I wonder what is the worst that can happen? Get booted out of the scheme and lose the points I don't get anyway? 

Has anyone got a 'sensible' suggestion why this is so?


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## Ispolkom (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> If you are a customer of an organisation, then why are some people excluded from any reward scheme? When I was in Portland earlier in the year a coffee shop offered me a card to get a free drink after buying 6, or something similar. How is that different to Amtrak AGR?


I don't know why membership is restricted, but I do notice that this is a common feature to frequent traveler programs in both the United States and the United Kingdom. To join Virgin Trains "Traveller" scheme you have to be a resident of England, Wales, or Scotland. To join the Irish Ferries Frequent Traveller Scheme you have to be a resident of Ireland, Great Britain, or Northern Ireland.

Here's an exception: you can earn Continental miles traveling on SNCF trains.


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## Upstate (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
> I think the AGR system is already more than fair.


Thats right: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. More appropriately, if its broken in a fashion that is beneficial to you, count your lucky stars and don't complain. If they go and look at changing things they might realize some of their other ducks are not in a row.

It is full of agents that are clueless, problems posting some points, elite levels that are pretty much pointless outside of the NEC, and the list could go on. On the other hand I can call from eleven months out up until I think it is four hours before I want to travel and book a cross country trip and as long as the class of service that I want is available I can get it. Where else can you get that kind of availability with no additional miles/points.


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## rrdude (Aug 27, 2009)

But let's think for a moment here. WHAT are these loyalty programs gonna do when you sign up using a "buddy's" address? Send the AGR police to your door, to verify that you live where you say you live? In this day and age of travel, many people spend half their time away from their "main" residence anyway.

Even if the TOC state "must be a resident", or "must reside in", or "must have to like to eat broccoli when it is snowing in Florida.." My point is to sign up anyway.

You spent the money, Amtrak earned the revenue, enjoy the points...............


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## alanh (Aug 27, 2009)

I think it's simply that they don't want to mail to international addresses (apart from Canada).


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2009)

Upstate said:


> It is full of agents that are clueless, problems posting some points, elite levels that are pretty much pointless outside of the NEC, and the list could go on.


While I realize that I do live along the NEC and most certainly do get to partake of all of the benefits of elite status, personally I think the two biggest benefits are the special phone numbers that avoid Julie and get me to a live agent faster when I do need one and the 50% bonus points for every trip I take. I for one cannot imagine how taking a short run for say $20 one way and getting 150 points instead of 100 points is pointless.

At least in my book that is huge, earning 1.5 points every time you travel. Even at the Select level getting 1.25 points is still a big deal. Not quite as nice as Select Plus' 1.5, but still nice.

Sure it's great that I can pop into a Club Acela anytime I want, but if that was one of the major selling points for elite status, I sure wouldn't go out of my way to make sure that I attain Select + status. If it happened, great. But I wouldn't go take one extra ride that I didn't need to take just to attain that status. For that 50% bonus, I would take one more trip if need be to attain status.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2009)

alanh said:


> I think it's simply that they don't want to mail to international addresses (apart from Canada).


That may be a part of it, but I strongly suspect that Amtrak simply feels that they don't have enough potential members from other countries to go through the needed hoops to comply with the laws of each country that they open membership up to. And they do have to conform to the laws of any country if they open up membership to that country. There is a maze of regulations out there.


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## jis (Aug 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> I for one cannot imagine how taking a short run for say $20 one way and getting 150 points instead of 100 points is pointless.


Whether it is 100 or 150 points certainly it is not pointless. Afterall it *is* 100 or 150 point and that is quite pointful! :lol:


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

AlanB said:


> alanh said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's simply that they don't want to mail to international addresses (apart from Canada).
> ...


So go on then Alan, enlighten me. What possible regulations could stop me enrolling for AGR? After all, the airlines manage to deal with it, sometimes in several countries, I am sure BA wouldn't have a restriction on only UK residents joining the FF scheme. Why would the laws of the UK stop me joining? If I am a passenger with Amtrak in the US, and accept their T and Cs to travel, what difference would joining AGR make?

Sorry, dont buy it, or the postage cost thing, how much would it cost to send a welcome letter and maybe a membership card to the UK? A few dollars at most.

Hardly likely to tip the whole scheme into chaos is it?


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## AAARGH! (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> AlanB said:
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> > alanh said:
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As Alan said, there are regulations pertaining to membership in many countries. Of course BA and other arilines serve those countries and thus it is cost beneficial for those airlines to include them. However, as Amtrak does not serve anywhere outside of USA (and a bit of Canada), it makes no sense for them to spend the $$$ to include anywhere outside of theor service area.

Face it, you are on the wrong side of a cost / benefit equation. That's all.


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

AAARGH! said:


> As Alan said, there are regulations pertaining to membership in many countries. Of course BA and other arilines serve those countries and thus it is cost beneficial for those airlines to include them. However, as Amtrak does not serve anywhere outside of USA (and a bit of Canada), it makes no sense for them to spend the $$$ to include anywhere outside of theor service area.
> Face it, you are on the wrong side of a cost / benefit equation. That's all.


But when I use Amtrak I am inside their service area...... Where I choose to live is of little interest to them.

Amtrak doesn't serve Hawaii or Alaska, but living there would be ok.

I still would like to know what these mythical 'regulations' are and how they work, if they exist at all.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Sorry, dont buy it, or the postage cost thing, how much would it cost to send a welcome letter and maybe a membership card to the UK? A few dollars at most.Hardly likely to tip the whole scheme into chaos is it?


British rail frequent traveler programs don't allow non-British residents to join (at least this is true for the ones I glanced at). The Eurostar frequent traveler program requires its members to have an address in France, Belgium or the United Kingdom. Why should AGR be any different and allow membership of persons resident in countries Amtrak does not serve?


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> Neil_M said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, dont buy it, or the postage cost thing, how much would it cost to send a welcome letter and maybe a membership card to the UK? A few dollars at most.Hardly likely to tip the whole scheme into chaos is it?
> ...


What sort of well reasoned and thought out argument is that? :lol:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

Amtrak is subsidized by American tax dollars.

It's the same as it is anywhere else.

Your sense of entitlement is unjustified...


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Amtrak is subsidized by American tax dollars.
> It's the same as it is anywhere else.
> 
> Your sense of entitlement is unjustified...


So is Continental Airlines, but I bet I can join their loyalty scheme......

So if I am not an American tax payer, should I pay more for my fare?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

Here, I'll explain it simply....

Trains need land.

Planes fly.

Planes can go to other counties not connected by land or bridges or tunnels.

Trains cannot.

Domestic, international... you follow?


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## Neil_M (Aug 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Here, I'll explain it simply....
> Trains need land.
> 
> Planes fly.
> ...


So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?

And you are not explaining at all, just making a load of random statements that you think are probably true, possibly, but you don't like to admit you don't know..

Have you been to the GML School of Argument?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 27, 2009)

Let's not forget the amount of the bottom line is paid by tax dollars...

Oh why do I bother with you?


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## Ispolkom (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Ispolkom said:
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> > Neil_M said:
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It's not an argument. It's an observation. I don't pretend to understand why frequent traveler organizations run the way they do. Are you an expert in how rail frequent-traveler programs work? If so, please enlighten me.

Lacking any insight into the inner workings of such organizations, I then turned to gathering data. Facts are often useful things. Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve. I can't find one surface transportation frequent traveler program that doesn't limit its membership that way, though I'll readily admit I couldn't find Deutsche Bahn's T & Cs. I could speculate on why they do so, as others have, but I am not fond of such levity.

So I'll repeat the question you didn't answer:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

I have often found (note: observation, again, not argument) that when diverse organizations work the same way, there is often an underlying common reason, and it's usually a waste of time to expect one particular organization to behave differently.

Sure, not being able to join AGR is unfair to you, but I can't imagine a man of your experience would try to argue on the basis of so nebulous a concept as "fairness."


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2009)

Neil,

I cannot sit here and spit out just what laws and such, especially since they aren't US laws, but the laws of England and other countries. I don't know specifics for AGR and Amtrak, but I did get my feet wet in this area a bit with my involvement a few years back to try and improve things for International members of the Shania Twain Fan Club. Anytime you start giving things away, be it via a prize drawing or via some sort of reward system (like AGR) you run into a whole myriad of laws that one must comply with. And I'm not suggesting that England is one of those countries that do have specific laws in this area.

But there are countries that do have various laws that can cause no end of problems for any company trying to run things like a fan club or a frequent flyer program. Is it possible to overcome these problems and offer things to every country? Certainly. Many do, be it a fan club or a FF program. But it does cost money to do that. In some cases it's a matter of hiring a lawyer to process the needed paperwork and ensure that you are complying with each country's laws. In other cases it's a matter of paying certain registration fees with said country, in addition to filing paperwork too.

In each case the parent organization must evaluate things for their needs and market. I have no insider info on this, but I can only believe that AGR felt that they didn't have enough of a market to open things up to overseas residents and to justify the costs and the hassles.

Sadly we also lost the fight for the Shania Fan Club too, despite the best efforts of one of your fellow countryman, another fan from Canada, and me. And frankly that was even more unfair as Shania does have a world audience and to make matters worse, those living overseas had to pay more to join, yet they got less benefits than fans living in the US and Canada. It was and remains a gross injustice IMHO, but one that neither the operator of the fan club was willing to fix, nor was her management company willing to fix. Sadly. And the major reason was because neither wanted to foot the bill to comply with non-US law.


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## jis (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?
> And you are not explaining at all, just making a load of random statements that you think are probably true, possibly, but you don't like to admit you don't know..
> 
> Have you been to the GML School of Argument?


I don't know what all this has to do with AGR rules or Continental One Pass Rules. No frequent traveler program is an entitlement. You get what you get, and even that can be taken away without any cause following certain well known techniques e.g. use it within x or lose it, etc.

Continental mainline does not get any direct operating subsidy like Amtrak does. It, like all other modes of transport in almost any country gets certain indirect subsidies.

So lets make a deal eh? You get Eurostar to allow American residents to become member of their frequent traveler program and we at this end will work on Amtrak :lol:


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## AAARGH! (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?


Continental is NOT subsidized like Amtrak is.

Is British Airways subsidized by your government? I think it is (or was).


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2009)

IIRC @ one time visitors from other countries could buy rail passes that were cheaper and had more bang for the buck than the ones we could purchase here?Not sure if this is still the case,I know the North American Rail Pass that we could get a few years ago(joint Amtrak/VIA)was a fantastic deal and that Geyhound(Boo!HISS!!)sells passes and tickets cheaper in Mexico than we can buy them on this side of the border but IMHO this too is unfair,seems that all tourist oriented schemes would want all the cisstomers they could get,we can buy railpasses for Europe cheap too(well,not as cheap as they nused to be!LOL),dont know if Europeans can get the deal we do?Also Canadians can fly to the tropics cheaper in the winter than we can from Texas(3,000=miles vs. 900!!!!)so its not a matter of economics but to me an unfair advantage for whomever gets the best deal no matter where they live!Id tell Neil to get a shadow address since he obviously likes coming here,perhaps NYC would be the easiest!(or he could be like the traveler and have multiple places he spends the night in when not on trains!LOL)


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## AlanB (Aug 28, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> IIRC @ one time visitors from other countries could buy rail passes that were cheaper and had more bang for the buck than the ones we could purchase here?Not sure if this is still the case,I know the North American Rail Pass that we could get a few years ago(joint Amtrak/VIA)was a fantastic deal


Nope, that special pass is now gone. There is only one pass out there now that is available to all, regardless of citizenship.


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## Neil_M (Aug 28, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve.


In the Eurostar T and C s I found this, so obviously they do have some way of dealing with people who don't have a postal address in the UK, F or B. (Note postal address, not resident)

"If you do have a postal address in one of these countries and wish to apply, or you’d simply like more information, please email [email protected]"

I must admit I have not taken any notice of any UK or European railway FT programmes, mainly because I get free or heavily reduced travel on all of them!

£38 day trip to Paris on Sunday!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2009)

Sounds like you are the British version of the traveler, you have connections!LOL


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## Ispolkom (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve.
> ...


Did you miss the sentence above the one you quoted, the one that says "The programme is currently only available for Eurostar travellers who have a postal address in the UK, France or Belgium."? Put the two sentences together and it means:

1) You have to have a postal address in those three countries.

2) If you *do* have a postal address in those three countries and want to apply, e-mail the above address. If you *don't* have a postal address in those three countries, it gives no information.

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.

I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?


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## Neil_M (Aug 28, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
> I repeat my question for the third time:
> 
> Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?


OK, ok keep your knickers on, I misread the blurb.

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.


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## jis (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.


Racist? Aren't we going a bit over the top? Are the Brits a different race in general from the American of the US kind?


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## AAARGH! (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
> ...


Nationalists, not racists. Even we lesser users of the English language know the difference. Just poking fun.  Cheers!


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## Neil_M (Aug 28, 2009)

AAARGH! said:


> Nationalists, not racists. Even we lesser users of the English language know the difference. Just poking fun.  Cheers!


Nationalist would be better!


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## BeckysBarn (Aug 28, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
> I think the AGR system is already more than fair.


OK, to put this thread back to the original topic... Which I thought was "If I were in charge of AGR, what would I do" So those who want international membership, that would be what you would do, right?

I don't think anyone is saying AGR system is not fair, but it could be fare-er


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 28, 2009)

Welcome to America! bring your VISA/MC/AMEX/Discover Card,ride Amtrak,stay in our hotels and eat in our resturants,

go home and pay your bill,come back again but leave the AGR points for us!!!Plenty of racists here of course but now a days the only color that matters is green!!!


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## Ispolkom (Aug 28, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
> ...


Merry Christmas to you, as well.


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## Neil_M (Aug 28, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> Neil_M said:
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Thanks, although it is a bit early.......


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 28, 2009)

Sorry Neil, just be satisfied that none of us can join British programs!


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## Neil_M (Aug 28, 2009)

So anyone up for an safe house address 'swop', you might need an address in little old England to grab Eurostar points make prizes, I need some Amtrak action! h34r:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 28, 2009)

BeckysBarn said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
> ...


My point is that it is MORE than fair.

In fact, it is almost to the point of being too fair.


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## Bigval109 (Sep 2, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I think the AGR system is already more than fair.
> ...


I remember a few years back when they had a 20% discount on points used for amtrak travel. I would love  to see that one come back  .


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## Bigval109 (Sep 2, 2009)

alanh said:


> I think it's simply that they don't want to mail to international addresses (apart from Canada).


What in the world made you go down this road? Join online and be done with it. If they give it to you fine if they don't no money lost. Would you ride enough to get enough points for a reward? Can we get back to the topic? Pleaseeeee!


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## Bigval109 (Sep 2, 2009)

BeckysBarn said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
> ...


I could be farer by having a two for one sale at buy points or discount for reward travel. Using less points would cause me to want to travel more often since I use the sleeper now that I'm older. I recently found out from my doctor that I have the travel bug. I love to ride the trains. My doctor is an expert he also loves trains. You should see the exam room called the train room.


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## the_traveler (Sep 2, 2009)

Bigval109 said:


> I recently found out from my doctor that I have the travel bug. I love to ride the trains. My doctor is an expert he also loves trains. You should see the exam room called the train room.


Me too - and there's no cure for the disease! (Thank goodness! :lol: )

Many years ago, I signed up for sports so I could go to the "training" room. But they actually made me play sports! 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sky12065 (Sep 3, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> Bigval109 said:
> 
> 
> > I recently found out from my doctor that I have the travel bug. I love to ride the trains. My doctor is an expert he also loves trains. You should see the exam room called the train room.
> ...


I don't know about that! Your doctor could tell you to _"take one train a day and get back to me in a week!" _


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 3, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> the_traveler said:
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> > Bigval109 said:
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And if you take your cats you get quadruple points!!!(can they sleep on the bottom bunk! :lol:


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## the_traveler (Sep 3, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> Your doctor could tell you to _"take one train a day and get back to me in a week!" _





> one train a day


and



> get back ... in a week


That would be cruel and unusual punishment for me!


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## sky12065 (Sep 3, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > Your doctor could tell you to _"take one train a day and get back to me in a week!" _
> ...


But you don't get the bigger picture. You get a perscription for travel on each visit and you can probably deduct your payments as medical expenses on your tax returns.

I will though give you a new suggested perscription to ask for..... "Take 1-3 trains a day and get back to me in 90 days!" And as a bonus you might be able to have your health insurance coverage pay for it!


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