# Pacific Parlour Car



## Chessie Hokie (Jul 21, 2008)

I took the _CS_ from SAC to PDX last Tuesday...what was offerred as the PPC was a diner/lounge (I believe the new Cross Country Cafe layout), # 37010. It was nice and new (outshopped in March 2008), but lacked the ambience I was expecting from the PPC. Few people used it, and the lower level was off limits (I believe it is set up as the kitchen). It offerred no particular advantage for sightseeing. A very limited cold lunch menu was offered, but the selection caused me to visit the diner instead. A poorly attended wine and cheese tasting was held in this car just prior to arrival at PDX, so I had to pass on that. I spent most of my time split between my roomette, the sightseer lounge and the diner...the PPC was just a walk-through car.


----------



## had8ley (Jul 21, 2008)

Chessie Hokie said:


> I took the _CS_ from SAC to PDX last Tuesday...what was offerred as the PPC was a diner/lounge (I believe the new Cross Country Cafe layout), # 37010. It was nice and new (outshopped in March 2008), but lacked the ambience I was expecting from the PPC. Few people used it, and the lower level was off limits (I believe it is set up as the kitchen).


The bottom floor is off limits to pax; it contains the grills, freezers and refrigerators along with a bathroom for the crew. Not much to see.


----------



## WhoozOn1st (Jul 21, 2008)

CCC? Diner Lite?? I call it JUNK, and like Chessie Hokie was disappointed when the PPC slot on the Tehachapi detour Starlight was filled by one of these monstrosities.


----------



## chuljin (Jul 21, 2008)

WhoozOn1st said:


> CCC? Diner Lite?? I call it JUNK, and like Chessie Hokie was disappointed when the PPC slot on the Tehachapi detour Starlight was filled by one of these monstrosities.


Concur.

Perhaps not junk, and certainly better than what other posts I've read suggest was the campground that inevitably sprung up on the other side of the dining car, but certainly bitter disappointment.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 21, 2008)

where are the ppc's? it never ceases to amaze me how amtrak can not offer what it advertises and then revert to "we're only a transportation company, amenities aren't guarenteed"


----------



## sechs (Jul 22, 2008)

I think that, by definition, a diner/lounge is not a Pacific Parlour Car.

Charging $5 for the wine tasting was a pretty brain-dead idea, in my opinion. It's so marginal, that they just could have included it in the accommodation charge. Certainly, I wasn't going to pay for something that should be coming out of the marketing budgets of the west coast wine and cheese industries....


----------



## Larry H. (Jul 22, 2008)

Now that you mention the cross country and the paying for wine tasting in the same message, it brings to mind something. When we rode the CS in late march a gentleman sat down next to us in the lounge and introduced him self as a Manager of Customer Service for Amtrak.. I have his name here somewhere but it is probably not important. At any rate he wanted to know how we were enjoying our trip and what improvements we would like to see. We had just spent two days without toilets working properly on the Zephyr among other issues so he got an ear full.

His discussion was of how they were planing to improve the CS and return it to a premium train. One of the things I recalled was his idea of a wine and cheese tasting, I thought he said at the station before departure, but maybe that was wrong. At any rate the idea to charge for it was in that conversation. He also wanted to know our opinion of the Cross Country Cafe since we had also ridden the CN to chicago.. I told him what I thought of the limited menu, cold food, and one cook. Plus the displeasure with no lounge that held more than four tables. He rattled off all the reasons why the Cross Country was doing so well and the "bottom line" had been greatly improved and sales were "Up". So I can see how if he had anything to do with it the CS might have ended up with both.. the fellow was with amtrak for six months he mentioned.. My opinion was he was more interested in cost cutting then real passenger satisfaction.

I have received at least three follow up questioners in the mail about the satisfaction of the Cross Country Car on trips to chicago., I never give it a great rating. A couple weeks ago I got a long telephone survey about the car and what I thought of it alone, and then in comparison with the service previously where it had the full diner and lounge.. You know which one won in my opinion! My wonder is what do they do with all those surveys, they must just "dump" them because I can't figure why they seem to be plowing ahead with them even though the crews and passengers do not like them..

I would have been highly disappointed had I expected the Pacific Parlor and got the Cross Country.. When we rode they were not running due to remodeling they said.. What did they remodel them for? It just shows how little understanding or concern Amtrak really has for the quality of experience they sell. I still content that at the prices they are willing to charge, nothing but the best possible service should be provided. When someone plans a trip for six months or more, and chooses a train for the experience it is supposed to offer, then amtrak should provide those services and equipment as advertised! But the disappointment of the passengers seems like something they take no responsibility for..


----------



## frj1983 (Jul 22, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Now that you mention the cross country and the paying for wine tasting in the same message, it brings to mind something. When we rode the CS in late march a gentleman sat down next to us in the lounge and introduced him self as a Manager of Customer Service for Amtrak.. I have his name here somewhere but it is probably not important. At any rate he wanted to know how we were enjoying our trip and what improvements we would like to see. We had just spent two days without toilets working properly on the Zephyr among other issues so he got an ear full.
> His discussion was of how they were planing to improve the CS and return it to a premium train. One of the things I recalled was his idea of a wine and cheese tasting, I thought he said at the station before departure, but maybe that was wrong. At any rate the idea to charge for it was in that conversation. He also wanted to know our opinion of the Cross Country Cafe since we had also ridden the CN to chicago.. I told him what I thought of the limited menu, cold food, and one cook. Plus the displeasure with no lounge that held more than four tables. He rattled off all the reasons why the Cross Country was doing so well and the "bottom line" had been greatly improved and sales were "Up". So I can see how if he had anything to do with it the CS might have ended up with both.. the fellow was with amtrak for six months he mentioned.. My opinion was he was more interested in cost cutting then real passenger satisfaction.
> 
> I have received at least three follow up questioners in the mail about the satisfaction of the Cross Country Car on trips to chicago., I never give it a great rating. A couple weeks ago I got a long telephone survey about the car and what I thought of it alone, and then in comparison with the service previously where it had the full diner and lounge.. You know which one won in my opinion! My wonder is what do they do with all those surveys, they must just "dump" them because I can't figure why they seem to be plowing ahead with them even though the crews and passengers do not like them..
> ...


Larry H,

They're remodeling the cars because they are old Santa Fe Highlevels and have to be close to 50 years old. They were constantly bad-ordered (parts are hard to come by) and really needed to be overhauled...sometimes equipment fails and needs to be replaced...I am sure the CCC was an attempt to see how such a car might work on the CS.


----------



## Larry H. (Jul 22, 2008)

frj1983 said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Now that you mention the cross country and the paying for wine tasting in the same message, it brings to mind something. When we rode the CS in late march a gentleman sat down next to us in the lounge and introduced him self as a Manager of Customer Service for Amtrak.. I have his name here somewhere but it is probably not important. At any rate he wanted to know how we were enjoying our trip and what improvements we would like to see. We had just spent two days without toilets working properly on the Zephyr among other issues so he got an ear full.
> ...


Odd but I thought the reason they were running for half the year without them was that they were being remodeled and that the "Launch" of the new CS was one of the reasons for the restoration.. So now they are still not restored?


----------



## yarrow (Jul 22, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Odd but I thought the reason they were running for half the year without them was that they were being remodeled and that the "Launch" of the new CS was one of the reasons for the restoration.. So now they are still not restored?


Larry, i thought so to. when we were on the cs in june (with a parlour car) i picked up a brochure about amenities on the new cs. none of which were available. having a monopoly, amtrak can do what they wish as those of us who like to travel by rail have no other option.


----------



## saxman (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm taking my mom on the Coast Starlight next week northbound. I hope there is a PPC on it. It sounds as if, the PPC cars are just as reliable of being on the consist as before...not very. Now I understand that their are only 5 of them, and if 2 break, someone is not going to have one, and I think I should get a partial refund if the PPC was not on my trip.


----------



## Chessie Hokie (Jul 22, 2008)

yarrow said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Odd but I thought the reason they were running for half the year without them was that they were being remodeled and that the "Launch" of the new CS was one of the reasons for the restoration.. So now they are still not restored?
> ...


Ha! That's right...in my roomette were two separate brochures extolling the virtues of the PPC. They shouldn't put those brochures out when there is no true PPC on the train...just makes one realize what they are missing!


----------



## printman2000 (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, at least they are putting SOMETHING on there as the sleeper passenger lounge. A second sightseer lounge would be better, but a CCC is better than nothing, IMHO.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 22, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Well, at least they are putting SOMETHING on there as the sleeper passenger lounge. A second sightseer lounge would be better, but a CCC is better than nothing, IMHO.



If what I'm reading (on other lounge threads) is true, anything would be an improvement! Please, tell me I've read too much negativity into the CS Parlour Car , as I am SO MUCH looking forward to my TRIP!!!!


----------



## yarrow (Jul 22, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, at least they are putting SOMETHING on there as the sleeper passenger lounge. A second sightseer lounge would be better, but a CCC is better than nothing, IMHO.
> ...


there is nothing negative about the parlour car. it is a wonderful addition to the trip. the negative is that for the past few years they have been hit or miss (due to lack of replacements when more than one is down) and now with the trumpeted relaunch of the cs with parlour car for first class (which has been a large part of the advertising) they are still hit or miss


----------



## chuljin (Jul 22, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, at least they are putting SOMETHING on there as the sleeper passenger lounge. A second sightseer lounge would be better, but a CCC is better than nothing, IMHO.
> ...


Oh no...no no...from what I've *heard* (I was cheated out of the experience myself), the Parlour Car is wondrous to behold...all the negativity I've read is about its frequent *absence* and replacement with something not nearly as good. When it's actually present as promised, it is almost universally enjoyed. The only minor irritation I've been reading is that the wine/cheese is no longer free.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 22, 2008)

as regards the ppc and the wine tasting, when we rode in june we had a ppc and the announcement was made that it was time for the wine taste for sleeper passengers and that it was $5 a head. we were sitting in the ppc and not too many people showed up. then it was announced that coach passengers could attend but for them it was $10 a head. pretty funny i thought


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm sorry, I was reffering to the negativity associated with the absence of one of the amenities called the" ParLour Car"!!!


----------



## rogers55 (Jul 22, 2008)

We will be making our annual Right coast visit the beginning of September. Coming back we are taking the EB to portland and then the Coast Starlight to VNC. I will have to do a report. It has been about 5 years since our last trip on the Coast Starlight.

Last year on the SWC departing CHI there was a free wine tasting before departure in the dining car. How much can that cost really, sounds like a cheap enhancement to me.


----------



## sechs (Jul 23, 2008)

chuljin said:


> Oh no...no no...from what I've *heard* (I was cheated out of the experience myself), the Parlour Car is wondrous to behold...all the negativity I've read is about its frequent *absence* and replacement with something not nearly as good. When it's actually present as promised, it is almost universally enjoyed. The only minor irritation I've been reading is that the wine/cheese is no longer free.


I have to be honest that, while I thought that serving meals in the PPC was a good idea, now that I've "experienced" it, definitely is not.

They don't serve the whole dining car menu, even though all of the food comes from there. It seems a bit ridiculous that only those interested in the two items that they are serving that day can eat there.

Also, because they are serving a meal there, the upper level of the car is nigh useless during meal times. No more eating in the diner and shuffling into the parlour car for a drink and conversation.

If it's just going to be an expensive diner/lounge for first class only, maybe we would be better off with getting the correct car for the service.


----------



## Rob_C (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi,

Going on the CS on Friday and Sunday. Would it be possible/of interest to keep a thread here for people to report if they had a true PPC or not on their trip and maybe try to figure out if there is a likely rotation for the cars absence?

I'll definitely report on it this weekend. Seems like there are enough people here to keep track of em pretty well.

Rob


----------



## Chessie Hokie (Jul 23, 2008)

Rob_C said:


> Hi,
> Going on the CS on Friday and Sunday. Would it be possible/of interest to keep a thread here for people to report if they had a true PPC or not on their trip and maybe try to figure out if there is a likely rotation for the cars absence?
> 
> I'll definitely report on it this weekend. Seems like there are enough people here to keep track of em pretty well.
> ...


Rob,

Go for it!


----------



## Alice (Jul 28, 2008)

I took the CS LAX to SAC arriving this Friday night. We had a parlor car and I spent most of the trip there instead of in my sleeper. It is only for sleeper passengers.

My notes are still packed so details like names will have to be in my trip report later.

The car host said Amtrak has 4 of these cars and a private party has one. They are the only ones left. President Bush has told Amtrak he doesn't want to be giving away free vacations to First Class passengers ("Free?" the audience exclaimed) so Amtrak has 6 months to show these cars produce revenue. I didn't ask when the 6 months started. He said he has to make $3500 RT every trip to meet that goal. He has to make it even when he doesn't have the parlor car. He usually does around $6000 with the car and $3000 without. He doesn't know how the other parlor cars are doing. Since he was a pretty good salesman, others may not be doing so well.

The $5 wine tasting is a good deal if you substitute for wine at a meal (4 half glasses and you can get a little more). Also, if you are in a group, buy the bottle of wine from the parlor car (they'll open it for free) and have it for dinner to both support the car and save money (Wine bottles at my tasting were $12 to $25). He was also selling T-shirts (including ones of a discontinued design), playing cards, conductors caps, collectible spoons, beverages that would have been free in the dining car, etc.

I had both lunch and dinner in the parlor car. I'd already had meals in the dining car on the CZ and the SWC and was happy for a change. The menu is much smaller but quite good. However it is cooked/heated in the dining car and put in chafing dishes. Therefore, choose the first possible seating for food quality. The best part is they don't have many passengers so you aren't crowded or rushed. Service was absolutely superb.

The windows curve up over the top kind of like a dome car and were great for views. The eight swivel lounge seats are comfortable but a little low for seeing all of the view. Since most people did not use the car, there was always a vacant seat. Also, there is a window shelf that is great for scanner, GPS, notes, schedule, etc., and there are outlets (!) although not at every seat, maybe 8 or 10 doubles in the car.

The restoration looks good but I hope they got a bargain price. I watched an older man almost fall when the bar rail along the windows broke free (It was cut just a little too short for the distance between the brackets.). And the refrigerator downstairs didn't work.

Oh, yes, if the cars don't fly, Bush wants to scrap them, not sell them.


----------



## WhoozOn1st (Jul 28, 2008)

Alice said:


> President Bush has told Amtrak he doesn't want to be giving away free vacations. Oh, yes, if the cars don't fly, Bush wants to scrap them, not sell them.


Ignore that man in the White House. No influence left. The whole nation, and indeed the whole world, is in a holding pattern; waiting to be rid of the worst U.S. president in history. Members of his own party are running away as fast as they can, but it's too late; already tarred by their toady votes for failed polciies, which are matters of public record.

It should not be forgotten that the Bush/Cheney junta has tirelessly attempted to kill Amtrak.

EDIT: McCain promises more of the same.


----------



## PRR 60 (Jul 28, 2008)

The decision to charge $5 for the wine tasting was Amtrak's and was not prompted by any outside pressure. Amtrak could have covered the cost of the Palour by allocating $5 per passenger from the sleeper revenue to the food and beverage account but chose instead to charge a seperate $5 fee on board. That was Amtrak's choice, not DOT's. DOT does not care how Amtrak chooses to charge for food and beverage, they are only interested in seeing Amtrak make an effort to make the food and beverage service work.

Does anyone really believe that Bush, Obama, or McCain even know there is such a thing as a "Pacific Palour"?


----------



## WhoozOn1st (Jul 28, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Does anyone really believe that Bush, Obama, or McCain even know there is such a thing as a "Pacific Palour"?


McCain's wife might know, if she's hands on and tracks sales closely. She's a major beer distributor. Don't know that her distributorship is an Amtrak contractor, but if she's aware of competitors she'd know.

In a recent interview Ms. McCain told of conquering her fear of flying by taking flight classes and buying her own plane. Pretty cool, but I wonder how many of us have that option.

EDIT: Could Ms. Obama buy her own plane?


----------



## yarrow (Jul 28, 2008)

Alice said:


> The car host said Amtrak has 4 of these cars and a private party has one.


so passengers who purchased first class tickets may be denied a ppc because a "private party" has one????? :angry: i thought amtrak had five ppcs.


----------



## wayman (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> Alice said:
> 
> 
> > The car host said Amtrak has 4 of these cars and a private party has one.
> ...


Sadly, I suspect this is another instance of an Amtrak crew member spreading incorrect information. It happens often, and certainly the bit about President Bush personally saying something specifically about the PPCs is incorrect.


----------



## jphjaxfl (Jul 28, 2008)

It likely means that one of the ex AT&SF high level lounge cars which have become the Pacific Parlour Cars has been sold to a private party. There were 6 high level lounge cars built for the El Capitain. I believe one may have been wrecked. All 6 were sold to Amtrak in 1971.


----------



## wayman (Jul 28, 2008)

jphjaxfl said:


> It likely means that one of the ex AT&SF high level lounge cars which have become the Pacific Parlour Cars has been sold to a private party. There were 6 high level lounge cars built for the El Capitain. I believe one may have been wrecked. All 6 were sold to Amtrak in 1971.


But AlanB has given detailed information about all five cars within the past six months as they cycle through Beech Grove, I think, which is a pretty solid indicator that Amtrak owns and operates all five cars. Apologies to Amtrak train crew, but I trust AlanB's information more than theirs.

Specifically, on January 7, AlanB wrote "Well all cars are listed as active and most just went through a major rebuild, so I would think that anything going on right now would be light work in nature. Therefore the odds should be rather good that you'll get a car, but with only 5 cars in service any problems will result in a consist going out without a PPC." But then on January 11, AlanB wrote "There are still 4 PPC's listed as active, last I had heard 3 were running with one in the shop in LA awaiting on parts. Mind you that info is over a month old, so it may have changed. The 5th remaining PPC owned by Amtrak has been stricken from Amtrak's active roster and remains in Beech Grove unusable and awaiting a still hoped for overhaul." So I don't know what the status of that 5th PPC is, but it sure sounds like all five are Amtrak-owned (or were in January). And I can't imagine why Amtrak would have sold one of them at that point, when they were in high gear on restoring these cars for the grand relaunch of the Coast Starlight.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 28, 2008)

Amtrak at one time many years ago did own 6 PPC's and had refurbished all of them for service. I don't recall just when, but at some point before 2000 for sure and perhaps even earlier than that, one was sold to a private party. That left 5 PPC's, which was still more than needed for service.

Amtrak still owns all 5 to my knowledge, all 5 are still carried on the active roster, all 5 went through Beech Grove for the most recent refurbishments, and I can't imagine that it would play well for Amtrak to have subsequently sold one of those newly refurbished cars.


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 28, 2008)

Over the weekend, while channel surfing, I came across a show on The Travel Channel about (I forget the name) National Parks by Rail. The last segment showed the CS - and included a PPC!

I don't know if it was the "old" PPC or the "new" PPC? (I didn't catch the date.) It looked nice! I hope they last a few months, so I can try it!


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 28, 2008)

Your attendant, to be blunt, was talking out of Alimentary School without raising his hand.


----------



## haolerider (Jul 28, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak at one time many years ago did own 6 PPC's and had refurbished all of them for service. I don't recall just when, but at some point before 2000 for sure and perhaps even earlier than that, one was sold to a private party. That left 5 PPC's, which was still more than needed for service.
> Amtrak still owns all 5 to my knowledge, all 5 are still carried on the active roster, all 5 went through Beech Grove for the most recent refurbishments, and I can't imagine that it would play well for Amtrak to have subsequently sold one of those newly refurbished cars.


All five are currently in service on the Starlight.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 28, 2008)

haolerider said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak at one time many years ago did own 6 PPC's and had refurbished all of them for service. I don't recall just when, but at some point before 2000 for sure and perhaps even earlier than that, one was sold to a private party. That left 5 PPC's, which was still more than needed for service.
> ...


if all 5 are currently in service and recently refurbished why are so many people getting cccs and sightseer lounges?


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 28, 2008)

What's so many?

I imagine they need 5 of them operating properly to keep them on each train. If one of them fails, they lose it on a train.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 28, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> What's so many?
> I imagine they need 5 of them operating properly to keep them on each train. If one of them fails, they lose it on a train.


"so many" are the many who have posted on this board about no ppc on their trip multiplied by the people who don't post on this board and have had no ppc) on the relaunched cs. as agressively as amtrak has marketed the ppc for the relaunch they have had a lot of runs without one. if they have 5 refurbished cars why is this happening?


----------



## RobertF (Jul 28, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Your attendant, to be blunt, was talking out of Alimentary School without raising his hand.


Anything to bash Bush. I've met people that when presented with clear facts about something, will still try to find the negative side of Bush on the topic. I remember this taxi ride up in Illinois... I never heard so much bunk and total outright fabrication spewed by someone. Yet I try to correct him and I'm all of a sudden a Bush fanatic. No, I'm just a fanatic for the truth buddy.

I'm not a huge Bush supporter, it amazes me how much *hate* he can generate. Hate is not a healthy thing for anybody and makes for a wondrous soup of irrationality. Be it Clinton, Bush, Gore, McCain or whoever... hate is not in our best interests.

Just my 2 cents....


----------



## wayman (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > What's so many?
> ...


Hasty refurbishment, leading to faulty plumbing or wiring or climate control or something dumb like that causing frequent bad-orders? No excuse for that, given how much extra time they had for the refurbishment on account of the mudslide delaying the relaunch by several months! But ... I can see this as the answer, anyhow.

That, or really, really bad luck leading to frequent bad-orders. I can see that, too.

It would be nice if there were someone as customer-service-oriented and eloquent as Gene Skoropowski handling the Coast Starlight.


----------



## wayman (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> "so many" are the many who have posted on this board about no ppc on their trip multiplied by the people who don't post on this board and have had no ppc) on the relaunched cs. as agressively as amtrak has marketed the ppc for the relaunch they have had a lot of runs without one. if they have 5 refurbished cars why is this happening?


It's also interesting to observe that they are running a CCC in place of the PPC when they're short a PPC. That means they've got a CCC permanently based on the west-coast, nowhere near where it would regularly run (on the Eagle and City). What's up with that? Did they make so many CCC's that they can just spare one to have it sit in LAX full-time (and not even be available in case it's needed as a backup for the Eagle or City)? Does that imply they made several more than they intend to actually use? Lots of questions here....


----------



## yarrow (Jul 28, 2008)

wayman said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


i have read of a man in charge of the cs named "brian" 10 or so years back. i have read that he was wonderfully customer oriented (how about that). did it cost more to run things as brian did? what happened to him? what was his record with the ppcs?


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 28, 2008)

They seem to be running CCCs on the Vancouver Cascades trains. That might have something to do with it.


----------



## yarrow (Jul 28, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> They seem to be running CCCs on the Vancouver Cascades trains. That might have something to do with it.


interesting. why aren't they using a talgo set? i know they were using superliner equipment to vancouver, bc but i thought that was just during a talgo refurbish. are they using a superliner set for an added run? i really like the talgo bistro car


----------



## AlanB (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > They seem to be running CCCs on the Vancouver Cascades trains. That might have something to do with it.
> ...


The Talgo refurbishments are still on going and therefore Superliner's still ply the SEA - VAC route.

I guess that someone at Amtrak decided that the CCC might be a nicer car to put on that route, especially to replace the diner that normally runs in the Talgo trainset for that route, by comparison to just a cafe car.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > yarrow said:
> ...


I seem to recall reading that he was promoted several years ago.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 28, 2008)

wayman said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > "so many" are the many who have posted on this board about no ppc on their trip multiplied by the people who don't post on this board and have had no ppc) on the relaunched cs. as agressively as amtrak has marketed the ppc for the relaunch they have had a lot of runs without one. if they have 5 refurbished cars why is this happening?
> ...


Amtrak is being very closed mouthed about their plans for the CCC's, most likely because they know that there will be howls of protest once they do tell us what's going on. However, I can tell you that the original plan called for 10 Superliner I dining cars to be converted and IIRC 30 Sightseer Lounges to be converted.

So far BG has released 16 CCC's, the most recent on July 18th of this month. This year's plan calls for 14 cars to be converted and so far 9 have been released from BG as of May. Current plans also call for one lounge to be converted to what's currently being called the "Lounge-Diner". I don't know if they'll eventually be dubbed CCC's, or they will be given some other name. Also no clue where they might start running.


----------



## AlanB (Jul 28, 2008)

yarrow said:


> haolerider said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I honestly can't answer that question, although I do believe that at least a few of the reports (like Jackal's) came before the official relaunch of the CS. So I don't think that there have been all that many sightings of no PPC on the CS, since the relaunch. It could be settling in adjustments, it could be problems with something done during the refurbishment. I don't know, but hopefully things will settle down and they'll start running normally.


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 29, 2008)

AlanB said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > i have read of a man in charge of the cs named "brian" 10 or so years back. i have read that he was wonderfully customer oriented (how about that). did it cost more to run things as brian did? what happened to him? what was his record with the ppcs?
> ...


Is that another way of saying "You'll never be heard from again!"? :huh:


----------



## Rob_C (Jul 30, 2008)

Just to dispel the "Bush bashing rumor" that I believe came from Alice. I was on that train and heard the same speech. Kummit was the name dropped about the "6 month or else" speech about the PPC's, not Bush.

In our case, the speech was so effective that we not only bought two t-shirts, but my traveling companion bought about 3 bottles of wine to share with the passengers, and the evening ended with several passengers visibly drunk. This is NOT the sort of behavior that should be encouraged to help the bottom line.

Overall it's a great addition to the train. And if they are indeed dropping the sightseer lounge from trains like the Eagle and City, why not convert some of them into Parlour cars? It would definitely take some of the pressure off the old hi-levels which seem to be generally noisier and prone to breakdowns. With the ridership up, the coach sightseer was absolutely packed, and there was definitely a problem with people sleeping there. It has a generally trashy feel, so sleeper passengers on all trains would really benefit from a lounge of their own. I know that's not practical for all trains, but it seems like the Coast Starlight could be a model for future improvements.

On the way back we had a customer service rep on board from KFS to OKJ. He said he was a big proponent of the PPC and was explaining to passengers the trouble with the CCC swap-out. He said he was NOT a fan of the CCC.

Rob


----------



## WhoozOn1st (Jul 30, 2008)

Rob_C said:


> Just to dispel the "Bush bashing rumor"


What's wrong with Bush bashing? In my case, any rumors are true. I'm an energetic Bush basher, and make no bones about it. Worst president in history, so why not bash on a regular basis, and at the drop of a hat? The clown shoulda been on the inside looking out - from behind bars - a long time ago. And that goes double for Dick Cheney. Trying to kill the pittance Amtrak receives, while waging an outrageously expensive and wrongheaded war. Need I say more?

EDIT: Main problem with Bush and Cheney is that they talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Lip service to democracy, long as it's not applied to them. You could look it up.

Transcript of President-elect George W. Bush:

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I told all four that there were going to be some times where we don't agree with each other. But that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.

He's done his best to fulfill his own wish, running roughshod over the Constitution. And he thinks it's funny:



Stalin, Hitler, Mussollini, and Franco were also really fun guys.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 30, 2008)

Why shouldn't you bash Bush all the time? Because there are enough real reasons to bash him that you can paint your picture without looking like a foaming fanatic. That way people actually listen. I wouldn't bash him, but he makes it so easy.


----------

