# Felony Theft Aboard Amtrak



## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm posting here because after a lifetime of riding Amtrak, I had the worst and most costly experience of my life, and some of you may not know how Amtrak handles theft aboard its trains.

On a 60-mile, one-stop train journey, I had to check my luggage in the general area. I was transporting a new computer and padded it with clothing, etc. When I arrived at my destination, I discovered that the lock was gone and the computer taken--while I was sitting upstairs, thinking that my belongings were safe with Amtrak. That computer was my entire livelihood. $2000 gone in a matter of a couple of hours. This was not a "small" item. And, this is felony theft. Right under Amtrak's nose. _Amazing. _

The run-around I got from Amtrak was unbelievable; eventually, I found out that none of your belongings are safe on Amtrak. Because some passengers are not permitted to check their baggage, you just have to trust that your luggage won't be compromised and your valuables stolen. If something of yours gets taken ... it's just gone. You can even discover that your baggage has been tampered with in the middle of your trip, and Amtrak will not try to recover the stolen property. I had no clue how lax its theft policies were until now. I'm appalled that I trusted this service for so many years. And I'm wondering how many hands have filtered through my luggage, looking for things to take.

I won't be riding Amtrak again unless policies change. Greyhound is more expensive, but it does allow you to check baggage, and also require that you have a baggage ticket in hand to claim belongings. Similarly, airlines have policies in place that allow you to file a claim for lost or stolen luggage. My advice: If you continue to travel on Amtrak, don't take anything that you can't easily replace. Put anti-theft tracking devices on your electronics. Purchase a ticket for a private berth, if you have to, so you can keep an eye on large pieces of luggage. Anything in the general area is fair game for thieves.


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## amamba (Sep 15, 2010)

Do you have homeowners or renters insurance? I had some CDs stolen out of my car once, and believe it or not, my renter's insurance covered their replacement at the time. If you have a $500 deductible it might be worth it to you to file a claim.

I am sorry to hear about your loss.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

Here's the problem: My homeowner's will only cover it if it was stolen in my jurisdiction. My local APD won't take a police report, lacking jurisdiction to do so.

Amtrak is a quasi-governmental entity. So basically, it makes its own rules. Passengers' property rights are basically nil. I asked customer service why they couldn't search other passengers' luggage, and got some guff about it infringing on their rights. But, apparently, it's okay for my private property to be vandalized. I always wondered why so few people rode the train ... well, now I know!

I'm just glad I didn't encounter the thief _when_ he/she was going through my luggage. That could have been very bad (and dangerous).


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## Shanghai (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm sorry for your experience. I also suggest that you check your homeowners insurance

as you may have some coverage there. I usually book a roomette when I have luggage and

if possible, I check my luggage. However, I keep my computer with me in my room.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss and hope that you have some coverage that will help.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 15, 2010)

By the "general area" I assume you mean the open luggage storage areas in the cars. While many here have used those areas without incident, they are certainly not secure for storing luggage, and use of them is at the risk of the passenger. Amtrak has no control over what is put there, and has no real way of taking responsibility for losses. That area is deserted much of the time, and short of having the area as an enclosed locker with only the attendant having the key or combination, it is impossible to effectively secure. That is of zero comfort to your situation where you lost items of real value, but the bottom line is that nothing of value should be put in those storage areas.

Losses from the area are not common, but they do happen. I was on the CZ a few years ago. The train stopped at Winter Park. A couple leaving from my car found their luggage missing from the storage area. Their two suitcases with virtually all the clothes they had for their vacation were gone. The train paused a few minutes while a futile effort was made to find the luggage, but in the end the couple was left at Winter Park with no luggage: and it was January and snowing to beat the band.

Amtrak could certainly do a better job of clearly identifying their disclaiming of liability for losses from the luggage storage areas. The fact that Amtrak employees help passengers put luggage in those areas compounds the issue by giving passengers the impression that Amtrak then takes responsibility. But, Amtrak does not assume liability for losses, and unless someone wins a case that disputes that, it is what it is.

I never use the common area to store luggage. Now that's easy for me because my wife and I are renowned light packers, but the best course is to keep anything of value in your room or in the rack above you in coach. As you sadly know, leaving anything of value in the common storage area is not a wise thing to do.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

PRR 60 said:


> Amtrak could certainly do a better job of clearly identifying their disclaiming of liability for losses from the luggage storage areas. The fact that Amtrak employees help passengers put luggage in those areas compounds the issue by giving passengers the impression that Amtrak then takes responsibility. But, Amtrak does not assume liability for losses, and unless someone wins a case that disputes that, it is what it is.


Amtrak could also give people an option of checking baggage. Obviously, this would have been my preference. Who wants to transport a suitcase with a computer in it in an open area? I certainly don't, but my other choices are, what, send it home Federal Express? At the same time, I'm prohibited from carrying it upstairs, as it wouldn't fit in the overhead compartment. This puts the passenger in an impossible position of not being able to securely transport his or her belongings. There's very little "due diligence" to be done.

I think back to all of the holidays and the families who stowed new flat-screened t.v.s, video game consoles and other pricey stuff in that open area, right in the box. I can't imagine how many thefts have occurred on Amtrak during the holidays. At the same time, I assumed that Amtrak would assume some responsibility, as I acted at its bequest and not my own.


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## MattW (Sep 15, 2010)

> Two-Piece Limit: Each passenger may bring aboard no more than two pieces of carry-on baggage. *Not included in this limit* are personal items such as purses, briefcases, laptop computers, baby items such as strollers, diaper bags and car seats, and equipment required for a passenger's medical condition such as breathing assistance devices and oxygen tanks.


Right off of Amtrak's site:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267362251


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## spot1181 (Sep 15, 2010)

Why so few people rode the train?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2010)

*Amtrak could also give people an option of checking baggage.* They are not going to give every one horse stop checked baggage. The economics don't work out

*Who wants to transport a suitcase with a computer in it in an open area? I certainly don't, but my other choices are, what, send it home Federal Express? * Carry a small backpack with your valuables in it and keep it with you whenever you move between cars. This is what I do and have never had any problems with my valuables.

*At the same time, I'm prohibited from carrying it upstairs, as it wouldn't fit in the overhead compartment. This puts the passenger in an impossible position of not being able to securely transport his or her belongings. *Get a smaller suitcase?

*I think back to all of the holidays and the families who stowed new flat-screened t.v.s, video game consoles and other pricey stuff in that open area, right in the box. I can't imagine how many thefts have occurred on Amtrak during the holidays. *Anyone who leaves valuables down there and assumes that a cloth suitcase is secure is just asking for trouble.

*At the same time, I assumed that Amtrak would assume some responsibility, as I acted at its bequest and not my own. * They didn't take control of your luggage, you were not given a claim tag so it was carry on just like the rest.

While thefts don't happen often on the train, you are the one who let this happen at such a extreme consequence.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2010)

While I use the general luggage storage area frequently, I NEVER put anything of great value in the bags I keep down there. The "good stuff", my laptop, scanner, Zune, camera, etc, go into my room, and I am comfortable with leaving them in there, hidden, despite the lack of locks (don't want to restart that discussion). When I am in coach, I am usually less burdened, and whatever I have of value stays with me.

That isn't to say I wouldn't be upset to lose my clothes, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Theft discouraging packing hint: Dirty underwear ON TOP. 

BTW, I ride a lot, and most trains I ride have pretty good load factors. How "few" people ride is more often a function of lack of capacity than lack of demand on many if not most existing routes.

Also, you didn't check it although at your station it appears that wasn't an option. In any case, since it wasn't checked, Amtrak didn't assume "care, custody and control." And so didn't assume liability, either. You had the responsiblity to look out for your stuff, and keep your work-related laptop with you, since it obviously was important.


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## Tony (Sep 15, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Greyhound is more expensive, but it does allow you to check baggage, and also require that you have a baggage ticket in hand to claim belongings. Similarly, airlines have policies in place that allow you to file a claim for lost or stolen luggage.


Have you actually checked the limitations on both Greyhound and airlines????

I don't think either would cover a $2,000 claim, especially when the luggage case itself wasn't stolen or lost.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

Guest said:


> While thefts don't happen often on the train, you are the one who let this happen at such a extreme consequence.


Wow! So I'm solely responsible, huh? Not the thief who took my computer? He just couldn't help himself, huh? You sound like you work for Amtrak!

:giggle:


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## Bierboy (Sep 15, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > While thefts don't happen often on the train, you are the one who let this happen at such a extreme consequence.
> ...


Yes, you ARE responsible (the previous poster said NOTHING about you being SOLELY responsible). Anyone who leaves such valuable possessions in a bag not within their sight is a nimrod.


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## amamba (Sep 15, 2010)

Well I knew this was going to go there quickly, but I also would never leave a laptop out of my sight on the train. And I am surprised that you had a bag that wouldn't fit in the overhead? My rollerboard suitcase easily fits above the seat on amtrak, but I always pack my laptop in a special bag that I carry with me at all times. Sadly, those luggage areas are not secure and thus, don't leave anything of value in them.

Of course, half of the posters on this board will tell you that it is no problem to leave your laptop in your roomette or your bedroom (with doors that do not lock) while you are in the diner, so take what you hear about security with a grain of salt.


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## Bierboy (Sep 15, 2010)

amamba said:


> Well I knew this was going to go there quickly, but I also would never leave a laptop out of my sight on the train. And I am surprised that you had a bag that wouldn't fit in the overhead? My rollerboard suitcase easily fits above the seat on amtrak, but I always pack my laptop in a special bag that I carry with me at all times. Sadly, those luggage areas are not secure and thus, don't leave anything of value in them.
> 
> Of course, half of the posters on this board will tell you that it is no problem to leave your laptop in your roomette or your bedroom (with doors that do not lock) while you are in the diner, so take what you hear about security with a grain of salt.


Yes, they'll tell you that it's no problem, but they almost invariably tell you (as I would, and as I do when I'm in a sleeper compartment) that you keep it completely out of sight.


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## had8ley (Sep 15, 2010)

I feel for your loss; hopefully this may help you get some re-imbursement. Amtrak has its own police department and they are capable of writing a stolen item report. You may have to twist a few arms but it has been done in the past. Good luck and don't give up on Amtrak because, unfortunately, there are thieves on every mode of transportation~ I had a male airline attendant, in first class, stash a leather jacket I had just bought some years ago. When I inquired as to the wherabouts a female stewardess couldn't contain herself. The culprit was fired and charged.


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## TVRM610 (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm very very sorry that happened to you. While I can't say that I see how Amtrak is possibly at fault, I do feel bad for you. I just took a very long trip on Amtrak and my laptop was constantly on my mind ha. So I know exactly how you must feel. I have to ask.. did you ever take your computer out of your bag during your trip? It seems that someone must have known your bag had something valuable in it? Or was the theif just that smart?


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## rvm (Sep 15, 2010)

I had a theft experience traveling from Philadelphia to Boston, around 1998-1999. I checked a bag in Philly, and when I picked it up in Boston, it was missing some compact discs and cassette tapes. Theft by Amtrak employees while the bag was checked.


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2010)

Bierboy said:


> Yes, they'll tell you that it's no problem, but they almost invariably tell you (as I would, and as I do when I'm in a sleeper compartment) that you keep it completely out of sight.


Like this lady apparently did? (unless I missed something)
There's a huge difference between leaving something unattended in your room in a sleeping car (which I have done and will continue to do) and leaving it in a common area unsupervised.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

amamba said:


> Well I knew this was going to go there quickly, but I also would never leave a laptop out of my sight on the train. And I am surprised that you had a bag that wouldn't fit in the overhead? My rollerboard suitcase easily fits above the seat on amtrak, but I always pack my laptop in a special bag that I carry with me at all times. Sadly, those luggage areas are not secure and thus, don't leave anything of value in them.


It's strange how everyone assumes that this was a laptop and that would neatly fit in a computer bag or overhead ...


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## AlanB (Sep 15, 2010)

Direct from Amtrak's baggage policy found here.



> The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:
> Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment.(Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.) Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment.(Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)





> Amtrak disclaims liability for carry-on baggage, even if Amtrak personnel has handled or assisted in loading or unloading the baggage.


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## dlagrua (Sep 15, 2010)

Laptops, cameras and other valuable electronic items should always be safeguarded by keeping them with you or in your sleeper. Its not your fault that they were stolen but the idea is to mimimize loss. Bad people are a part of life. They can be found everywhere, in government, in the schools, at work, in the church, on Amtak and on the busses etc. Theft will not stop unless we pass laws that would execute the guilty thieves.


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## rvm (Sep 15, 2010)

Actually, I disagree with part of that last sentiment. We already have more laws on the books than anybody can count, and they still haven't eliminated crime.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

TVRM610 said:


> I'm very very sorry that happened to you. While I can't say that I see how Amtrak is possibly at fault, I do feel bad for you. I just took a very long trip on Amtrak and my laptop was constantly on my mind ha. So I know exactly how you must feel. I have to ask.. did you ever take your computer out of your bag during your trip? It seems that someone must have known your bag had something valuable in it? Or was the theif just that smart?


My guess: 1) locked 2) heavy 3) medium-large. Maybe the thief picked it up and jiggled it enough to ascertain that there was something of a very dense mass inside?

Now, if it had been a monitor, I would have _really_ cried.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2010)

I think that assuming a computer is a laptop is a fair assumption in context. I don't think most people would assume you are lugging a tower computer onto a train when you say "computer" unless you specifically say so.

And it would not have done you any good even if you had the option of checking it. Amtrak's checked baggage policies specifically exclude electronics. If you had checked it, and they dropped it and ruined it they still would have denied the claim because they specifically tell you they won't accept electronics in checked baggage. The only way you would have gotten coverage is to have shipped it via Amtrak Express and paid for shipping and insurance (if Amtrak still has Amtrak Express). I seriously doubt Greyhound or an airline would have covered your computer as either checked or carried on. Most airlines have policies similar to Amtrak in what is acceptable in checked baggage. In fact, when TSA would have x-rayed a checked bag with a tower computer inside, I wonder what would happen? They tend not to like things with dense masses in them (the drives) and bunches of wires. I think chances are good you would have been denied boarding or would have to abandon the thing at the airport.

And also, the very fact it was a tower probably made it more obvious to the thieves.

You left a large, valuable piece of electronics in an open unsupervised area that is obviously unsupervised. You took your chances, and lost. Amtrak isn't to blame for your lack of judgement. Next time, use UPS to ship your tower, pay for it, and get the declared value insurance on it.

If you don't believe us, $2000 is within the limit of small claims court in most places. Sue Amtrak to recover the value of the computer. See what the judge says -- if he can stop laughing.


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## Bierboy (Sep 15, 2010)

zephyr17 said:


> ...You left a large, valuable piece of electronics in an open unsupervised area that is obviously unsupervised. You took your chances, and lost. Amtrak isn't to blame for your lack of judgement. Next time, use UPS to ship your tower, pay for it, and get the declared value insurance on it.


EXACTLY.


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## henryj (Sep 15, 2010)

Common sense should tell you not to leave valuables in an unguarded area. First of all I always travel with only two bags both of which I can carry to my room or put in the overhead racks. Camera's, cell phones and such I always carry with me where ever I go, even to the diner. I don't leave them in my room or at my seat. Once while I was traveling in Germany by train I had to leave my luggage in the general area because of over crowding. I picked a seat where I could see it at all times, particularly at each stop. I would have stood in the boarding area if I had too to watch it. The only time I ever let go of my luggage is when I am forced to check in on a plane flight and I get a claim check for that. Think Thimk Think. I also don't leave anything in the car where someone can see it when I drive.


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## nferr (Sep 15, 2010)

The only things I leave in the public luggage storage area on the train are clothes. I take a carry-on in my roomette with any electronics or watches etc. If I had a $2000 item that could easily be stolen I would keep it in sight. The original poster said it was only a 60 mile trip. Pretty easy to keep your eye on something for that short a trip. Really just have to watch your luggage around the stops.


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## LisaMM (Sep 15, 2010)

AlanB said:


> (Prohibited): "Fragile and/or valuable items ..."


Read: *Everything that costs money to replace.*


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 15, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > (Prohibited): "Fragile and/or valuable items ..."
> ...


Precisely.

From Greyhound:



> Prohibited Items for Checked Baggage
> Acids, ammunition, animals, combustible liquids, compressed gases, corpses, cremated remains, explosives, firearms of all types, fireworks, flammable liquids, furniture, hazardous materials (poisons, radioactive materials, etc.), materials with a disagreeable odor, matches, merchandise for resale, protruding articles, or any unsecured articles including those in plastic or paper bags are prohibited.* Electronic equipment (television, stereos, etc.),* film (flammable), and perishable items (food) may be sent using Greyhound PackageXpress with appropriate packing. Items such as money and prescription medication may not be checked as baggage and are to be carried in the customer's possession.
> 
> Laptop computers are considered "electronic items" and are prohibited as checked baggage, however they may be brought aboard as one of two allowed carry-on items.
> ...


Out of luck on Greyhound too. Do you want me to check SWA?


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 16, 2010)

Southwest Airlines' liability for lost, damaged, or delayed baggage is *limited to $3,300.00 per fare-paying Customer*.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 16, 2010)

And must be reported within four hours of your arrival. Not sure when 'arrival' starts, but chances are it isn't when you unpack at your hotel.

From the TSA, I believe they trump SWA.



> DO NOT pack the following items in your checked baggage:
> Lighters are prohibited from all baggage
> 
> Jewelry, cash or fragile items (no matter how they are protected)
> ...


Again... nothing worth anything.

But go ahead, pack your computer in a checked bag, get it through security, and file a claim. You're still not thinking, if its worth any money then give it to somebody who will accept the responsibility, such as a shipping service-- or better yet, transport it yourself. If it's too big... hell, it was what, sixty miles. You could have driven that, possibly faster than Amtrak.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 16, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And must be reported within four hours of your arrival. Not sure when 'arrival' starts, but chances are it isn't when you unpack at your hotel.


4 hours from the time the plane hits the gate i would think. So your not going to notice anything was missing from your luggage unless you notice it appears to be lighter then when you packed it.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> On a 60-mile, one-stop train journey, I had to check my luggage in the general area. I was transporting a new computer and padded it with clothing, etc. When I arrived at my destination, I discovered that the lock was gone and the computer taken--while I was sitting upstairs, thinking that my belongings were safe with Amtrak. That computer was my entire livelihood. $2000 gone in a matter of a couple of hours. This was not a "small" item. And, this is felony theft. Right under Amtrak's nose. _Amazing. _


If I am understanding this correctly, you had your computer inside your locked luggage, with clothes wrapped around it. When you went to re-claim your luggage that you left unattended downstairs, the lock was broken and someone took your computer, leaving everything else like your clothes.

Sorry, but I just have to ask, how would anyone know you had a computer inside your locked luggage? Especially, if they just opened it, all they would see, initially, would be the clothes wrapped around it.

*Did you somehow "advertise" that there was a $2,000 computer inside your luggage? I mean, I just can't understand how a potential thief would even know about it? *

BTW, I have to agree with a past post here. I don't think that either a bus or an airline would cover a claim for a $2,000 item missing from inside a piece of luggage.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Sep 16, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Southwest Airlines' liability for lost, damaged, or delayed baggage is *limited to $3,300.00 per fare-paying Customer*.


That's correct (and seems to be the industry standard).

However, dig a bit deeper for the "fine print"...

" ... will not be liable for loss of money, jewelry, cameras, negotiable papers/securities, electronic/video/photographic equipment, heirlooms, antiques, artifacts, works of art, silverware, irreplaceable books/publications/manuscripts/business documents, precious metals and other similar valuable and commercial effects."


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## rrdude (Sep 16, 2010)

Folks, this woman (I assume by Guest_Name) is just plain pissed off that while on Amtrak someone ransacked her luggage, and stole her computer. I don't blame her.

I'd be super-pissed too, especially since I have placed valuables in the same area, (that I didn't need during the trip) and basically just "lucked out" that they weren't stolen. I'll be more careful in the future.

But lighten up on her guys. She's pissed, she came her to vent, and possibly find some ideas for relief, and is in some respect "looking for some empathy".

What she basically got was slammed (by some, not all) for making a mistake.

While I'm usually the first to make a mistake, and the first to laff at someone's misfortune for making similar mistakes, I think with "guests" regardless of their attitude or what they type, (remember, it is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to decipher the true intent or emotion of what someone types) we should at least attempt not to "cast blame" in a way that offends.

Stick to the facts. Maybe I'm being too PC (which I friggin' HATE) but in reading these posts, the responses (some, not all)  just seem cold and condescending.

I'd assume a lot of Guests who post here are "seeking information and help", and have searched the web to find some place to vent, and or get ideas on "what to do next".

The customer is always right, and in these forums, the Guest is the customer. Rant over. Report me.


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## makai1976 (Sep 16, 2010)

rrdude said:


> The customer is always right, and in these forums, the Guest is the customer. Rant over. Report me.


Have you seen the threads where they discuss someone who got hit by a train? Half the people want the corpse arrested for trespass.

Poor judgment on the part of the OP, of course. Put the laptop in a smaller bag and keep it with you, problem solved. Still, no reason to be mean.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 16, 2010)

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Recovering from a theft is something nobody enjoys. I think you should take the advice to follow up with Amtrak's own police force and see if they can get you some documentation that would satisfy your home/renters insurance. In the future you might also consider buying trip insurance that covers lost or stolen luggage. At first you said you "checked" your bags in the "general" area but later it sounds like you just left your luggage on the common shelves and nothing was actually checked. If so I don't know why you thought anyone from Amtrak would be watching your bags down there or why they would hand you a couple grand simply because you said something was missing. I've certainly never seen any staff down there watching anything. Also, I thought everyone knew that luggage locks won't actually prevent any experienced thieves. They're only useful if the luggage is near you so you might notice someone taking a few extra seconds to bust them open or rip them off. I'm one of this forum's harshest Amtrak critics, but in this case it's hard for me to get upset at Amtrak. It sounds like you have been fortunate to never have anything stolen from you before now and simply assumed all would be well if anything ever happened. When you were the eventual victim of your own assumptions you were surprised to learn that what you don't know _can_ hurt you. Travelers have few options for recovery of stolen goods. That's just a fact of life. At this point you can change your method of travel, although you might want to do some more research before you make any _more_ assumptions about what protections you can expect should you suffer another loss. Or you can become an advocate for all former and future victims and petition your government to ensure there are more protections and remedies available for losses incurred by travelers. Or you can simply chalk it up to experience and be a little more careful next time. Your accusation that Amtrak is immune from responsibility simply because it's associated with the government doesn't make any sense. Governmental action is the primary reason your luggage has _any_ protections at all, including on airlines. If you want _more_ protections the government is probably your only option for actually getting them.


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## LA Resident (Sep 16, 2010)

daxomni said:


> First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Recovering from a theft is something nobody enjoys. I think you should take the advice to follow up with Amtrak's own police force and see if they can get you some documentation that would satisfy your home/renters insurance. In the future you might also consider buying trip insurance that covers lost or stolen luggage. At first you said you "checked" your bags in the "general" area but later it sounds like you just left your luggage on the common shelves and nothing was actually checked. If so I don't know why you thought anyone from Amtrak would be watching your bags down there or why they would hand you a couple grand simply because you said something was missing. I've certainly never seen any staff down there watching anything. Also, I thought everyone knew that luggage locks won't actually prevent any experienced thieves. They're only useful if the luggage is near you so you might notice someone taking a few extra seconds to bust them open or rip them off. I'm one of this forum's harshest Amtrak critics, but in this case it's hard for me to get upset at Amtrak. It sounds like you have been fortunate to never have anything stolen from you before now and simply assumed all would be well if anything ever happened. When you were the eventual victim of your own assumptions you were surprised to learn that what you don't know _can_ hurt you. Travelers have few options for recovery of stolen goods. That's just a fact of life. At this point you can change your method of travel, although you might want to do some more research before you make any _more_ assumptions about what protections you can expect should you suffer another loss. Or you can become an advocate for all former and future victims and petition your government to ensure there are more protections and remedies available for losses incurred by travelers. Or you can simply chalk it up to experience and be a little more careful next time. Your accusation that Amtrak is immune from responsibility simply because it's associated with the government doesn't make any sense. Governmental action is the primary reason your luggage has _any_ protections at all, including on airlines. If you want _more_ protections the government is probably your only option for actually getting them.


This is the best posting of all on this thread up until now. (Irony detail: one of the words in the spamcatcher is "luggage")


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## Todd (Sep 16, 2010)

Sorry... entirely your fault. An open storage area is just that: open. AMTK has no responsibility for storing stuff there, whether it's "under its aegis" or not. Like leaving your stuff in a locker in a gym; unless the facility provides locked storage, it's your problem.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

There's just something about the OP that sounds really fishy to me...like WHY would any sane person drag a TOWER computer on as carry-on luggage? And what kind of computer would be worth two grand??? Most towers are in the vicinity of 600 bucks, for a good-quality one. Such items are easily shipped door-to-door by FedEx, UPS, and the USPS, with insurance available to cover damage or loss. Sorry, I can't really sympathize.


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## zepherdude (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi, while I feel for your loss and I would fel terrible, as you are now, I have just purchased a pretty exppensive laptop and purchased a new backpack to put it in, I take it everywhere, home at night, lock my office for lunch and it basically does not part with me. My laptop is my livelyhood and I respect it and watch it, even though its a pain in the rear, I respect the fact that someone out there would steal it if the chance arose. I am sorry.


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## LisaMM (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks for all of your input. I contacted my U.S. Senators; one (thus far) is willing to intervene on my behalf. So maybe I'll get some resolution. Even if my property isn't replaced, Amtrak may rethink its policy of forcing passengers to place luggage in unattended areas.

My overall take on this is that Amtrak absolves itself from responsibility to a ridiculous degree. Its policies as they are currently written tacitly state that anyone can rifle through your luggage and get way with it. Anyone can pick your pocket and walk away with impunity.

Hopefully, I can press for enough change so that Amtrak riders are given a little more protection against theft of personal property.


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## James (Sep 16, 2010)

Sorry about your loss and hope you are able to file a claim. What train were you riding?


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## Tony (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Thanks for all of your input. I contacted my U.S. Senators; one (thus far) is willing to intervene on my behalf. So maybe I'll get some resolution. Even if my property isn't replaced, Amtrak may rethink its policy of forcing passengers to place luggage in unattended areas.
> 
> My overall take on this is that Amtrak absolves itself from responsibility to a ridiculous degree. Its policies as they are currently written tacitly state that anyone can rifle through your luggage and get way with it. Anyone can pick your pocket and walk away with impunity.
> 
> Hopefully, I can press for enough change so that Amtrak riders are given a little more protection against theft of personal property.



I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.

IMHO, Lisa was negligent, not Amtrak.

I think a good point was made previously. If this so very important and expensive PC was packed in locked luggage, along with clothing, *how would any one know a PC was even in the locked luggage?* Some important part of this story has to have been left out by Lisa, and to me it seems obvious, those missing parts would shift the blame on Lisa.

Lisa makes the analogy about having one's pocket picked and getting away with it. Lisa, a better analogy is leaving $10,000 on the curb in front of our house overnight, and being surprised when it is missing the next morning. Should someone have taken the $10,000? No. But it was foolish to have left something so valuable, so vulnerable.

I hope this Senator does nothing by laugh at Lisa. That's all that such a ridiculous and frivolous complaint deserves.


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## BigRedEO (Sep 16, 2010)

I still don't see how Amtrak would "force" you to put it in an unattended area. I realize this is all hindsight now, but if I were told I had to put it in an unattended area, I would have flat out said, "I'm carrying personal family mementos that cannot be replaced. I need to have this with me or in sight at all times." Were you in Coach, Business Class, or a Sleeper? Coach and Business Class both have LARGE overhead bins. I have yet to see a suitcase too big to fit overhead. In a Sleeper, if you're by yourself, you have either the overhead cubby in your room on Viewliners, or the upper bunk in all Sleepers. My last long distance trip was on the Zephyr. I had a roomette. All valuables stayed either with me, or on the upper bunk, with pillows and blankets placed in front of them. I also either took my valuables with me, or I left the curtains shut when out of the room with the door shut. But my two large suitcases with all my clothes were in the unattended area downstairs on the Sleeper car. The attendants were very good about making sure only people who belonged on the Sleepers were there, so I never really worried about my clothes. The only inconvenience was when my suitcases ended up near the bottom of the pile because of other people going through their luggage and trying to pull them out if I needed something from them. Otherwise, I felt perfectly safe leaving them there. Even if you had a large tower computer in a large suitcase, there is still no reason it would have to go in an unattended area. While I am sorry for your loss, I don't think you can hold Amtrak as being "worse" than any other mode of transportation as to their responsibility for your luggage. I have heard MANY stories of people being robbed, or having things robbed from their suitcases on both airlines and buses, so please don't think you will be any better on any other mode of transportation.

And may I also suggest an external drive for next time if you get another tower? MUCH easier to watch and carry and no need to take the tower with you!


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

Tony said:


> I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.
> 
> IMHO, Lisa was negligent, not Amtrak.


This, exactly. Everyone bothered by having to deal with this has better things to do with their time than worry about your lost items. What makes you so special that you think that Amtrak's baggage policies don't apply to you? (Lisa, not Tony)


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## A.J. (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.
> ...


ummm, do you think maybe that's a bit harsh? I can see your point and I don't exactly disagree, I just think it comes across as mean and I don't think being mean ever really does anyone any good, do you? I totally agree with the person who stated earlier that she was probably just really, really frustrated and thought she'd found a sympathetic place to vent. what happened to her really does suck, and I think she is right to be upset about the theft. however, I think once she calms down she will (hopefully) realize that this could have been avoided and that she has to take part of the blame herself. if this computer is her livelihood, she should have taken better care of it and hopefully she'll learn a big lesson. the answer to the lesson isn't just switching to Greyhound, either. chances are, Lisa didn't even know what the baggage policies were or bothered to find out. how many times have we all seen people on trains who are blissfully ignorant of the rules? she was an uninformed rider who made a costly mistake.


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## LisaMM (Sep 16, 2010)

Tony said:


> I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.
> IMHO, Lisa was negligent, not Amtrak.


Sorry, Tony, but my Senator isn't laughing. How am I "wrong" for wanting to give passengers the option to check pieces of luggage rather than leave it unattended? How am I "wrong" for wanting some sort of diligence on Amtrak's part? I'll be blunt, too: You sound like you want passengers to be robbed. I wonder why this is--??


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## BigRedEO (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.
> ...


Lisa, you still have not told us how you were FORCED to leave it unattended. I understand they're not being able to accommodate checking your luggage. They would have to hire someone just to organize and keep track of the luggage and have it ready at every stop, which would slow schedules considerably. But they would NOT have "forced" you to put it somewhere unattended. The only unattended area is the downstairs luggage rack of sleeper cars, so what route were you on and where is it that it was unattended and not in your sight? Until you give us that information, the people at this forum can only make guesses as to what happened and therefore the reason some people here are being very blunt. If you really came here looking for help, guidance and information, you at least have to provide the details for people to direct you to the right follow up in this situation.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

A.J. said:


> ummm, do you think maybe that's a bit harsh?


Not at all. Not everything in life is roses and sunshine, and trying to force your lack of personal responsibility (Lisa, not you) onto someone else is bothersome and counterproductive.



LisaMM said:


> Sorry, Tony, but my Senator isn't laughing. How am I "wrong" for wanting to give passengers the option to check pieces of luggage rather than leave it unattended? How am I "wrong" for wanting some sort of diligence on Amtrak's part? I'll be blunt, too: You sound like you want passengers to be robbed. I wonder why this is--??


You keep making this about offering checked baggage. Even if you checked bags, Amtrak still isn't responsible:


> The following kinds of items *are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage*:
> * Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon. (See note below regarding firearms in checked baggage)
> 
> * Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
> ...


You never should have had the computer inboard with you in the first place, unless it was a laptop and in your personal possession for the whole trip.


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## VentureForth (Sep 16, 2010)

Lisa, I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I know that all of this "advise" is hardly conciliatory. It does open up the conversation, which I believe was your intention, and bring up Amtrak’s baggage and liability policies to the forefront.

I have to think to myself what would happen if I were in your situation. If I lost a $2000 computer, my wife would kill me for being careless, even if it were handcuffed to my wrist. On the other hand, if my wife did the exact same thing, she’d have a good reason for it.

That all being said, it’s a lesson to be learned.

This thread is beginning to enter into the "Three sides to every Story" zone - hers, Amtrak’s, and the truth.


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## jmbgeg (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> I'm posting here because after a lifetime of riding Amtrak, I had the worst and most costly experience of my life, and some of you may not know how Amtrak handles theft aboard its trains.
> 
> On a 60-mile, one-stop train journey, I had to check my luggage in the general area. I was transporting a new computer and padded it with clothing, etc. When I arrived at my destination, I discovered that the lock was gone and the computer taken--while I was sitting upstairs, thinking that my belongings were safe with Amtrak. That computer was my entire livelihood. $2000 gone in a matter of a couple of hours. This was not a "small" item. And, this is felony theft. Right under Amtrak's nose. _Amazing. _
> 
> ...


After reading many of the posts above here is my two cents worth:

1) An option might have been to ship your computer Fed Ex Ground, declare the value, and insure the shipment; not taking it with you Amtrak or any conveyence.

2) You could have inquired about trip insurance and asked whether personal property is covered under some policies. I don't know the answer.

3) A passenger traveling with valuable personal property could inquire of their homeowners or renters insurer as to whether they could obtain a rider/endorsement to cover the property in transit.

4) Whether in a coach car or a sleeper, there is no practical, economically viable way to monitor the luggage racks portal to portal.

5) Other posters are correct; economics and logistics do not allow checked luggage at each short stop along a train's route.

6) A Senator or Congressman might make an inquiry of regulated carriers like Amtrak or an airline, but they are unlikely to pay you compensation inconsistent with what the tariffs state, despite the congressional inquiry. Even less likely is the chance that such an inquiry will change FRA or Amtrak rules.

Anyone would be frustrated, or even mad when they become a victim of crime like you have. Unfortunately, there were risk management options available to you at and before travel that you did not pursue. I am sorry to hear of your loss.


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## LisaMM (Sep 16, 2010)

BigRedEO said:


> LisaMM said:
> 
> 
> > Tony said:
> ...


I was not allowed to bring the luggage with me up to the passenger seating area due to its size. It would not fit in the overhead compartment. It would have blocked the aisle. Or, I would have had to put it on an empty seat. That said, typically I do not check luggage in the general area; I take a tote upstairs. This happened to be one of the few exceptions.

When you pay for a service, you do not (logically) take that mode of transportation with the understanding that your luggage can (and probably will) be broken into and your belongings stolen and it's "all your fault." Do I think that Amtrak employees are watching that luggage area? Absolutely! I _expect_ them to. When someone takes the time to go through that area, target certain bags, pick locks and remove belongings, this is Amtrak's negligence, not mine. I would have felt just as violated and infuriated had only my clothing and personal items been taken. How many other pieces of luggage did the thief go through? I do not doubt for one minute doubt that a lot more of those bags were rifled through, especially the ones with locks.

Look, I understand that theft happens. But Amtrak should know that theft is more than likely to occur (than not) when passengers aren't allowed to check their bags in a secure area. I've ridden Amtrak and had my purse picked as I was sitting in my seat drinking coffee--luckily all the thief took was my cell phone; my wallet was in another zippered compartment--so I DO understand that you can be on high guard and still fall prey to theft. These thieves are good at what they do; they're efficient and practiced. The difference was that my purse was under my control. My luggage, on the other hand, was under the control of Amtrak personnel. When someone steals passenger luggage, it's Amtrak's responsibility, solely and exclusively.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Do I think that Amtrak employees are watching that luggage area? Absolutely! I _expect_ them to.


That expectation is wildly unrealistic. What gives you the expectation that Amtrak hires people to hang out on the lower level of every car in service just to watch the bags?


> My luggage, on the other hand, was under the control of Amtrak personnel. When someone steals passenger luggage, it's Amtrak's responsibility, solely and exclusively.


It wasn't under their control, and it wasn't their responsibility. Until you correct this fundamental misunderstanding, you're not going to make any progress.


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## AKA (Sep 16, 2010)

rrdude said:


> Folks, this woman (I assume by Guest_Name) is just plain pissed off that while on Amtrak someone ransacked her luggage, and stole her computer. I don't blame her.
> 
> I'd be super-pissed too, especially since I have placed valuables in the same area, (that I didn't need during the trip) and basically just "lucked out" that they weren't stolen. I'll be more careful in the future.
> 
> ...



Well said.


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## MattW (Sep 16, 2010)

> I was not allowed to bring the luggage with me up to the passenger seating area due to its size. It would not fit in the overhead compartment. It would have blocked the aisle. Or, I would have had to put it on an empty seat


Did a crewmember explicitly tell you not to bring it upstairs? Which crewmember? Attendant, conductor or someone else? What are the dimensions of this bag? Which route were you riding on and between which two stations? Until you fill in some of these details, we're just going to be playing a guessing what-if game, which will likely still result in the consensus that it was your fault.

Also, why do you insist that YOUR luggage was under Amtrak's control? Because YOU left it out of YOUR sight? Did you hand it off to a crewmember who removed it from your sight?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> LisaMM said:
> 
> 
> > Do I think that Amtrak employees are watching that luggage area? Absolutely! I _expect_ them to.
> ...


You clearly do not understand how liabilty works and what negligence is. Everything comes down to a "reasonable person" test. On both sides.

1. A reasonable person is diligent in taking steps to safeguard their valuables.

2. A person or an entity does not incur responsibilty to make you whole for a loss unless they have done something or failed to do something, which a reasonable person would recognize as wrong or negligent to cause that loss. i.e. committed a "tort."

3. Just because something bad happens to you on someone else's property does not make that person or entity responsible for your loss. They have to commit a tort.

Specifically, in your case.

1. Did you know what you were carrying was valuable to you and potentially valuable to others and was a potential target for thieves? Yes.

2. Was there any thing in the common luggage area that would lead you to think there was some sort of security system for the luggage in the common rack? Any locks, a dedicated guard, a notice that the items left in the area would be secured? In my Amtrak travels, clearly no. It is obvious that the common luggage rack is not secured.

3. Did Amtrak personnel take custody of your luggage and give you a receipt or check for it? No.

4. Although the clear visual evidence would be enough, did Amtrak also provide notice to you that they assumed no responsiblity for carry-on luggage. Yes, in their published policies.

Therefore, a resonable person would conclude that Amtrak is not taking "care, custody and control" of the luggage. A resonable person would conclude that the designated area is not secure and the items placed there are vulnerable. In light of this, the most prudent course for a reasonable person would not be to leave a valuable computer in a place with open access where it could not be monitored.

Oh, but Amtrak would not allow me to keep it with me, for policy reasons most likely rooted in safety (can't block the aisle, etc.). So it is their fault.

Not so fast.

The choice existed to detrain with the luggage, ship it via a common carrier such as UPS or FedEx that does offer some protection and assumes some liability, and take a later departure. That is most prudent course, based on the information clearly available.

Is this a major inconvience? It certainly is. However, Amtrak does not commit a tort in your choice to take the more expedient course instead of the more prudent course. You had a choice, a bad one, but a choice.

In making your choice, you assumed the risk associated with leaving your valuables in an unsecured area, that can clearly be seen as unsecured by a "reasonable person".

The only sliver that you could possibly hang on would be that Amtrak does not post an explicit notice on the luggage rack itself, even though it is in their terms and conditions, and posted clearly on the website. But a "reasonable person" could see the obvious lack of security with their own eyes.


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## pennyk (Sep 16, 2010)

zephyr17 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > LisaMM said:
> ...


Very well presented. If you are not an attorney, you are doing an excellent job playing one on AU.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 16, 2010)

makai1976 said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > The customer is always right, and in these forums, the Guest is the customer. Rant over. Report me.
> ...


It wasn't a laptop it was a computer tower that was stolen.


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## sorry4lisa (Sep 16, 2010)

I feel bad about your loss :angry2: I know how you must feel. Your post does nothing but make me more aware of what is sadly becoming acceptable in our country today, the victim suffers while most crimes go minimally unpunished to be committed another day and to another person. What a shame.On the other hand, at least they din't find you and your bag laying beside the track somewhere in Georgia!


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## Cristobal (Sep 16, 2010)

I just want to know where she's been traveling to/from in her "lifetime of riding Amtrak" and on what trains so that I can avoid them. She's apparently lost not only the computer (on a 60 mi, one-stop route :huh: ) but also has had, in the past, her purse picked as well. 

Things certainly aren't adding up here. Especially for an "experienced" Amtrak user.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 16, 2010)

pennyk said:


> Very well presented. If you are not an attorney, you are doing an excellent job playing one on AU.


Thanks, I'm not an attorney, but play one on TV.  But I have been in the insurance industry most of my career, including a stint in liability claims, and you have to have some familiarity with the stuff in order to function in liability claims.

As an aside, in my own case, I routinely carry various expensive electronics, laptop, Zune, etc onboard Amtrak and leave them stashed in my room. But I know I am assuming risk in doing that, and they could be stolen, although significantly less likely hidden in a room than from the common rack. But there is still risk. If they got stolen would I be upset and angry, you bet! Would I blame Amtrak because they don't provide a lock? No. I know that, do it anyway, and don't bother dragging it with me to the diner. Having it stolen out of my room would be a direct consequence of my choice, a possible consequence I am aware of and elect to ignore. I'm a big boy, and take responsiblity for my own actions.

The OP has every right to be upset and angry. But she shouldn't expect to recover anything from Amtrak, because she won't. They didn't do anything wrong.


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## LisaMM (Sep 16, 2010)

zephyr17 said:


> You clearly do not understand how liabilty works and what negligence is. Everything comes down to a "reasonable person" test. On both sides.


Really? I'll let my alma mater know I put in those three years for nothing. You, on the other hand, are _definitely_ not an attorney. I would tell you how you tipped your hand, but watching laypeople babble about things they don't know much about amuses me. You are impressively convincing, so kudos for that.

I'd be lying if I stated that I'd thoroughly researched statute and case law to determine the extent of fault. This entire matter is entirely out of my purview (health fraud). The jurisdictional issues alone are extremely complex.


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

No, they really aren't.

Amtrak's policy clearly says that they're not liable.

Case closed.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > You clearly do not understand how liabilty works and what negligence is. Everything comes down to a "reasonable person" test. On both sides.
> ...


So sue them, and see how you fare. I know any property/casualty company I ever worked for would consider Amtrak very defensible here by both claim staff and the attorneys. But likewise most companies I've worked for would settle because it would quickly cost more to defend than pay if you showed you were serious about proceeding. Filing in small claims is pretty cheap. Heck, there's a fairly good chance they wouldn't even show up for $2000 and you'd get a default judgement as long as you got it served properly and could demonstrate the value of the computer. The problem is enforcing it, though...

PS-if you work in health fraud and the computer was work related, as you state, is there a possiblity that you're at risk for HIPAA privacy violations?


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## Big Iron (Sep 16, 2010)

Perhaps, if Amtrak had denied the OP boarding because her suitcase violated their carry-on policy, this thread would have never appeared.


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## A.J. (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > You clearly do not understand how liabilty works and what negligence is. Everything comes down to a "reasonable person" test. On both sides.
> ...


well any sympathy I had for you just went out the window. it's been made abundantly clear that, for a variety of reasons, amtrak is absolutely not responsible for compensating you for your loss. just because you don't like that doesn't mean you have to start being rude to people here. perhaps you ought to seriously consider what people here have to say, since they're actually explaining the amtrak policies to you, policies which you either didn't know existed or chose to ignore.

this reminds me of the episode of "seinfeld" involving Jerry's car reeking of b.o. at the end, he leaves the car, with the keys in it in full view of a man who is probably homeless, essentially inviting him to take the car.


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## spot1181 (Sep 16, 2010)

Why is she afraid to tell us the the train and cities involved? Somethings not right here.


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## A.J. (Sep 16, 2010)

spot1181 said:


> Why is she afraid to tell us the the train and cities involved? Somethings not right here.


not that I'm saying that this is what's happening here, but your question reminded me of an incident that happened several years ago, on a different forum I frequented. a young woman who was new to that particular forum started posting about some really awful medical news she'd received and was justifiably devasted by it. she was going to have to have surgery, yada yada yada. she started posting from the hospital, prior to her surgery and then again after, or so we were led to believe. however, one of the more intrepid members of the forum was pretty crafty with the internet, discovered the girl's writing on a bunch of other forums, and made the discovery that the girl was fine, had never had surgery and made the whole thing up for the attention. i'm just sayin'.


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## nferr (Sep 16, 2010)

Something doesn't add up in the whole story IMO.


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## jis (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> BigRedEO said:
> 
> 
> > LisaMM said:
> ...


So there really was a safety issue that the train crew was addressing in preventing you to take the bag upstairs. Did they stop you from standing by the luggage rack downstairs for the 60 miles. That would have been the logical thing to do, since after all it is you that knew of the value of the contents. Why should everyone else on the train be placed in greater safety risk and inconvenienced because you want to save a little money in not sending it FedEx Ground with insurance?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Tony said:
> 
> 
> > I have been reading thru here, and I have now be blunt. I find it so very wrong of you to have contacted your Senator about this.
> ...


How much in additional fares - or taxes - would you be willing to pay for having someone to check bags at every middle-of-the-night-with-two-passengers stop? Only about 1/4 of the stations outside the NEC are even fully staffed (that is, with baggage service). Again, CALL FEDEX!!! CALL UPS!! CALL USPS!!! But for God's sake, JUST like with the airlines, YOU are responsible for your CARRY-ON luggage!! (BTW, I am really tired of seeing people drag 5 oversized bags apiece on at stations, and am thrilled to have seen conductors turn people away for doing so - there's only so much room for carry-on baggage, people, learn about the limits!!)


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## MJL (Sep 16, 2010)

Did you pay your ticket with a credit card? Some cards have travel insurance, which includes insurance against theft.


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## A.J. (Sep 16, 2010)

I found this with a 2-second google search. Curiously, Lisa M claims that she adhered to the carry-on baggage policy, which she actually didn't. the exclusion of electronic items applies to carry-on, as well.

http://www.planetfeedback.com/index.php?level2=blog_viewpost&topic_id=327027&reply_id=293834


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

Well now, how about that.

Good thinking, A.J.


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## Cristobal (Sep 16, 2010)

A.J. said:


> I found this with a 2-second google search. Curiously, Lisa M claims that she adhered to the carry-on baggage policy, which she actually didn't. the exclusion of electronic items applies to carry-on, as well.
> 
> http://www.planetfeedback.com/index.php?level2=blog_viewpost&topic_id=327027&reply_id=293834


Also curious that she mentions a train number there (21) but not here even after being asked repeatedly.

What is Amtrak #21?


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## Ryan (Sep 16, 2010)

Texas Eagle.


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## BeckysBarn (Sep 16, 2010)

Train 21 is the Texas Eagle. So this happened somewhere between CHI & SAS?


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## Dan O (Sep 16, 2010)

Not sure how Amtrak could stop the train to look for the stolen computer. I don't know that they operate like trains do in the movies where Sherlock Holmes can stop the train to look for the missing large diamond. I sympathize with the loss but it looks to me like it was preventable. It's too bad that someone did steal it but I don't see where Amtrak is at fault. If the bag was too big to put in the large overhead area, does that mean it's too big for Amtrak to carry period?

Condolences on the loss but the OPs expectations re security were not very reasonable.

Dan


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## AlanB (Sep 16, 2010)

Here are my problems with this entire incident.


The Texas Eagle doesn't have compartments above the seats.

Any suitcase that wouldn't fit in the overhead racks on the Eagle would be in violation of Amtrak's carry-on luggage policy. And anything but a foot locker would fit into the overheads.

The already mentioned rules violation of packing a computer in luggage.

How the OP didn't notice that her suitcase was noticably lighter until after she got off the train.

How the OP didn't notice that her lock was broken before getting off the train.

How no one noticed anyone carrying around a stolen computer. After all, it's not like most other passengers would have a suitcase large enough for a computer, much less empty enough to actually hide a computer.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Sorry, Tony, but my Senator isn't laughing.


You are probably right, your senator isn't laughing because the only ones actually working on small time complaints are their aides and low level ones at that. The aides are laughing though, just not to your face. They will put on a small dog and pony show for you and then get back to real problems.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

Guest said:


> LisaMM said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, Tony, but my Senator isn't laughing.
> ...


Unless this is all a setup by an anti-rail politician to try and slander Amtrak. Assuming that it is real of course.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 17, 2010)

Stupid or lying. I can take either one.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2010)

Guest said:


> LisaMM said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, Tony, but my Senator isn't laughing.
> ...


Senators and their staffs will send out form letters for petty complaints like this, they wont even go to lunch for $2,000 let alone help a regular person! Me thiinks there is something rotten in Denmark, I think this is made up out of whole cloth either by a prankster or a scam artist trying to get over!


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Here are my problems with this entire incident.
> 
> 
> The Texas Eagle doesn't have compartments above the seats.
> ...


Another thing that don't add up: Who waits around for a once a day train to travel all of 60 miles?

It seems that a practical person would just drive and not have to align their schedule with Amtrak's. Just throw the bags in the back of the car and go.


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## DET63 (Sep 17, 2010)

> Theft will not stop unless we pass laws that would execute the guilty thieves.


Didn't they hang pickpockets and other thieves in the middle ages? And didn't other thieves and pickpockets ply their craft on spectators at the executions?

Moral of the story: Carry traveler's cheques to your next hanging.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2010)

DET63 said:


> > Theft will not stop unless we pass laws that would execute the guilty thieves.
> 
> 
> Didn't they hang pickpockets and other thieves in the middle ages? And didn't other thieves and pickpockets ply their craft on spectators at the executions?
> ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: In Islamic countries they cut off hands so the pickpockets learned to use their feet and even mouths!


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## guest2010 (Sep 17, 2010)

LisaMM said:


> Thanks for all of your input. I contacted my U.S. Senators; one (thus far) is willing to intervene on my behalf. So maybe I'll get some resolution. Even if my property isn't replaced, Amtrak may rethink its policy of forcing passengers to place luggage in unattended areas.
> 
> My overall take on this is that Amtrak absolves itself from responsibility to a ridiculous degree. Its policies as they are currently written tacitly state that anyone can rifle through your luggage and get way with it. Anyone can pick your pocket and walk away with impunity.
> 
> Hopefully, I can press for enough change so that Amtrak riders are given a little more protection against theft of personal property.


You contacted your U.S. Senators! 

Uhhh, right <_<


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## Ryan (Sep 17, 2010)

Guest said:


> Another thing that don't add up: Who waits around for a once a day train to travel all of 60 miles?
> 
> It seems that a practical person would just drive and not have to align their schedule with Amtrak's. Just throw the bags in the back of the car and go.


In the linked site she claims that she's handicapped and thus, can't drive. If she lives between CHI and STL there's more than one train a day as well, so travel via Amtrak isn't that far out of the question. Anyone want to look at a timetable and try and see how many stations are 60 miles apart (where at least one of the stations doesn't allow checked baggage)?

For those that didn't follow A.J.'s link on the previous page, here's another version of events:



> As someone with a disability that does not permit me to drive, I've relied on Amtrak to get me from one place to another for my entire life. However, my relationship with you has come to an end, Amtrak as of September 14, 2010.
> Passengers traveling short distances are not allowed to check luggage. It must be stowed in a common area. Sometime during a brief 60-mile, one-stop journey, my luggage lock was picked, my belongings gone through and my new computer was stolen (I placed computer between clothing to pad it during transport). Total cost to replace it: $2,000.
> 
> I immediately phoned Amtrak when I discovered the theft, hoping that the conductor of Train 21 (southbound) would be put on alert and other passengers' baggage checked for my computer--a fairly large item with a unique serial number. But I was told that there was nothing they could do, to call the city police.
> ...


Good luck on the Dog, Lisa.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2010)

This just doesnt compute!The only two cities between CHI and STL that are roughly 60 miles apart on the TE#21 route are Joliet and Pontiac!If the OP is handicapped and can't drive,

wouldnt they have been in the downstairs seats on the Superliners that run this route? Also between CHI and St. Louis local pax would be carried on the #321 St. Louis coach, not on #21?And why not one of the Lincoln Service trains?

If she road the train South of St. Louis (#21/#421) the only city pairs that are roughly 60 miles apart are Texarkana and Marshall and San Marcos to San Antonio (close, actually more like 50 miles). Everything else is either like 30 miles apart and in the middle of the night

from St. Louis to Texarkana. To be believed by this Inspector more info that jibes with the claims is required.

Also if the Senator(s)that the OP has contacted are from Texas, Kay Bailey Hutchison is a friend of Amtrak, actually saved the Texas Eagle and helped the Texas just say no politicians

not stop the Heartland Flyer.She would at least send a letter and look into the complaints if real? Our other Senator, John Corny, aka Who?, has consistently voted to kill Amtrak and has the same attitude that John McCain does, "you mean theres a train in Texas". His office probably might send a form letter and then have a good laugh as a previous poster said!

Inquiring minds want to know Who?What?When?Where? This is a put on, just saying! :excl:


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## MrFSS (Sep 17, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> This just doesnt compute!The only two cities between CHI and STL that are roughly 60 miles apart on the TE#21 route are Joliet and Pontiac!If the OP is handicapped and can't drive,
> 
> wouldnt they have been in the downstairs seats on the Superliners that run this route? Also between CHI and St. Louis local pax would be carried on the #321 St. Louis coach, not on #21?And why not one of the Lincoln Service trains?
> 
> ...


If it helps try to determine where, I can tell you the OP posted from Austin, TX.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2010)

:hi: Well that narrows it down for sure,thanks Tom! Since I live in Austin and ride the Eagles regularly

dont even have to look the schedule up!Austin to San Marcoss is 30 miles with roughly 45 minutes allowed on the schedule in running time! Austin has checked baggage,San Marcos doesnt. (unmanned station).If going to San Antonio which is another 50 miles the baggage could have been checkedfrom Austin-San Antonio.(manned station).

I also know for a fact that the excellent and friendly Austin agents are very willing to help people, especially handicapped, with getting luggage onto the train, have seen it many times. This story is a phony, just saying!

And BTW, I didn't do it, another one of those train mysteries, h34r: perhaps there can be a series on TV, "Train Mysteries"!!Anyone in the market for another computer? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Ryan (Sep 17, 2010)

San Marcos doesn't have baggage service, so SMC-SAS makes sense, I guess.

Edit: You beat me, Jim - but I had to look at a map!


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## JayPea (Sep 17, 2010)

Since she posted from Austin, it's possible she boarded one stop north of Austin and was traveling TO Austin. A quick look at the timetable shows Taylor about an hour north and has no checked baggage. (As an aside, if I remember the conductor's narrative from my TE trip last month, Taylor does have a very good rib joint, though.  ) So it's also possible she was traveling from Taylor to Austin.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 17, 2010)

JayPea said:


> Since she posted from Austin, it's possible she boarded one stop north of Austin and was traveling TO Austin. A quick look at the timetable shows Taylor about an hour north and has no checked baggage. (As an aside, if I remember the conductor's narrative from my TE trip last month, Taylor does have a very good rib joint, though.  ) So it's also possible she was traveling from Taylor to Austin.


Jeff: As the resident expert on the AUS-TAY-AUS run (triple point runs need to return,I need points! :lol: )Ill point out that it's only 30 miles and about 45 minutes plus there are no stops between TAY and AUS so where did the computer go? Good theory but IF this happened it was Austin South! Wanna buy a computer?? :lol: :lol: :lol: Jim

BTW-The Conductor is correct about the Bar-B-Q!!!


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## Ryan (Sep 17, 2010)

She did say that it was a 60 mile, one stop journey and that the train continued on when she got off (and that the computer didn't get off with her):

More data:



> ... that no one noticed another passenger (or staff), removing a big
> 
> piece of baggage, tripping the lock, taking out a computer, and
> 
> ...


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## jis (Sep 17, 2010)

Speaking of who one might be riding with, somewhat OT but perhaps of relevance.... I returned from Tokyo on an excellent Continental flight to Newark yesterday. After we parked at the gate, 6 CBP agents marched on board and arrested two individual, handcuffed them and took them off before they let anyone off the plane! Who knows what they had been upto? Apropos discussions on a few other threads, notice that these arrests were made on the air-side before anyone had officially entered the US through Customs and Immigration.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 17, 2010)

jis said:


> Speaking of who one might be riding with, somewhat OT but perhaps of relevance.... I returned from Tokyo on an excellent Continental flight to Newark yesterday. After we parked at the gate, 6 CBP agents marched on board and arrested two individual, handcuffed them and took them off before they let anyone off the plane! Who knows what they had been upto? Apropos discussions on a few other threads, notice that these arrests were made on the air-side before anyone had officially entered the US through Customs and Immigration.


You're really heading off-topic now. In the reactionary security theater era that has followed "Nine-Eleven!" whatever credibility our various airport security forces ever had has been almost completely squandered. I wouldn't put much stock in anything they do or don't do and I would worry more about the tactics and motivations of the folks in uniform than whichever passengers they felt like arresting on any given day. In an era when unarmed mentally disabled people are gunned down at the gate and Cat Stevens is considered a mortal threat to America I don't see why anyone would take the CBP seriously.


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## had8ley (Sep 17, 2010)

WOW! his has been an attention grabber...I think it's time to put up or shut up. Contact Amtrak police and attempt to make a report. They might tell you what everyone else has stated but you're not getting anywhere waiting at the station. :unsure:


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## Todd (Sep 17, 2010)

LisaMM is clearly trying to make a case of/from nothing. Talk to her Senator? Balderdash. It's rather like the woman who threw acid on her own face as a "cry for help."


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## Jellybelly60 (Jun 24, 2013)

Have twice had luggage rifled through when in the dining car (on a sleeper with bedroom). Took my valuables with me, Thank God. What is interesting, is that you give your car # and room # to employees in the dining car. My sister and I think it is a racket. We figure they were looking for electronics, jewelry or cash. Not sure, but really did not appreciate that is has happened twice in a row. Spoke with the porter who didn't appear to be concerned at all.


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## pennyk (Jun 24, 2013)

There are excellent reasons why the dining staff needs your car and room number. It is not a "racket." It is to make sure that the proper number of meals are provided to individuals in sleepers. I believe that if too many meals are "charged" to a specific room, it comes out of the LSA's pocket.


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## Ryan (Jun 24, 2013)

Wow, I'm glad that we drug up a 3 year old thread for some baseless accusations against Amtrak employees.


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## SarahZ (Jun 24, 2013)

pennyk said:


> *There are excellent reasons why the dining staff needs your car and room number. It is not a "racket." It is to make sure that the proper number of meals are provided to individuals in sleepers.* I believe that if too many meals are "charged" to a specific room, it comes out of the LSA's pocket.


This.

Also, you can buy padlocks for your luggage. If you travel by train again, put your luggage out of sight if possible and lock it up. I always put my laptop in the closet and throw my coat and some other stuff on top of it before closing the curtains and shutting the door. With the curtains shut, it's hard to tell if someone's in the room.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 24, 2013)

Moderators: Seems like this one could be Closed and put in File 13 where it belongs!


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## dlagrua (Jun 24, 2013)

Lisa I am sympathetic to your loss, but a railroad coach car is like a public space with 60 or so people occupying it and perhaps you can double that number coming aboard and departing at different stations. It only takes one bad egg to steal something and unfortunately that bad egg was on your train at some point.

Quite frankly I do not understand how you were able to fit a desktop computer tower in your luggage. What brand was it? What are the dimensions of it? If it was stolen from your luggage, why didn't the thief just take the whole luggage piece? I can believe your story but something doesn't sit well with me about why that computer tower never went upstairs with you. A computer tower WILL fit in the overhead luggage rack so why was it not there? If this story is true you still have to assume some negligence in leaving a valuable item where it could be easily stolen. Several years ago, my mom left a pair of diamond earrings at the beauty salon. She remembered that when they dyed her hair she removed them and put them by the sink in an ashtray. After realizing that she was missing her earrings, she went back to the place within the hours and they were gone. Another godless individual without a soul had taken them but we do not worry as that person is now cursed and will meet an even worse fate.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 24, 2013)

dlagrua said:


> Lisa I am sympathetic to your loss, but a railroad coach car is like a public space with 60 or so people occupying it and perhaps you can double that number coming aboard and departing at different stations. It only takes one bad egg to steal something and unfortunately that bad egg was on your train at some point.Quite frankly I do not understand how you were able to fit a desktop computer tower in your luggage. What brand was it? What are the dimensions of it? If it was stolen from your luggage, why didn't the thief just take the whole luggage piece? I can believe your story but something doesn't sit well with me about why that computer tower never went upstairs with you. A computer tower WILL fit in the overhead luggage rack so why was it not there? If this story is true you still have to assume some negligence in leaving a valuable item where it could be easily stolen. Several years ago, my mom left a pair of diamond earrings at the beauty salon. She remembered that when they dyed her hair she removed them and put them by the sink in an ashtray. After realizing that she was missing her earrings, she went back to the place within the hours and they were gone. Another godless individual without a soul had taken them but we do not worry as that person is now cursed and will meet an even worse fate.


You're replying to a 2+ year old thread that was resurrected by a new guest.


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## roomette (Jun 24, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> You're replying to a 2+ year old thread that was resurrected by a new guest.


So what? I don't get what the big deal is. Stealing doesn't happen anymore? Why start a new thread?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 24, 2013)

But he was replying to a poster from 2+ years ago, not the recent poster. I doubt the other poster had been on the site since 2010.

I don't have a problem with the new poster adding to this one.


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## Ryan (Jun 24, 2013)

So the person that he's addressing will never read what he said and most certainly never come back and answer his questions.


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## roomette (Jun 24, 2013)

Ryan said:


> So the person that he's addressing will never read what he said and most certainly never come back and answer his questions.


Again, who cares?


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## Ryan (Jun 24, 2013)

Folks that don't want to waste time writing advice to someone that will never read it and asking questions that will never get answered?


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## roomette (Jun 24, 2013)

Not noticing the age of a thread is equal to leaving valuables in a public area.

As if the regulars would not make it immediately clear the thread is old. No one gets hurt


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## Tennessee Traveler (Jun 24, 2013)

Strangely, the latest guest post referred to the SCA as a "porter" -- not sure I can take this post seriously.


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## roomette (Jun 24, 2013)

The name of the NAACP hasn't changed since 1909.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jun 24, 2013)

Jellybelly60 said:


> Have twice had luggage rifled through when in the dining car (on a sleeper...


Well, there's your problem. Luggage goes IN the sleeper, not ON the sleeper. If you put it ON the sleeper, the wind will just blow it away. Plus, the area on top of the train is used exclusively for action movie fights, preferably while the train is moving towards a tunnel.


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## rusty spike (Jun 25, 2013)

Jellybelly60 said:


> Have twice had luggage rifled through when in the dining car (on a sleeper with bedroom). Took my valuables with me, Thank God. What is interesting, is that you give your car # and room # to employees in the dining car. My sister and I think it is a racket. We figure they were looking for electronics, jewelry or cash. Not sure, but really did not appreciate that is has happened twice in a row. Spoke with the porter who didn't appear to be concerned at all.


Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience but "racket" or not I have 2 suggestions for traveling on public transportation:

1) Buy a couple of small combination luggage locks (TSA approved for airline use). They work great--easy to lock and unlock. Sadly, petty theft is everywhere in our society--not just Amtrak.

2) I would have called and notified Amtrak customer service noting train # and date of incident(s) in the event other pax are experiencing this. You are assuming there is some sort of "racket" involved with Amtrak on-board employees. If so, I don't think speaking with the "porter" (whom I am guessing to be the Sleeping Car Attendent) would gain you anything.

The dining car staff ask for your room/car number so that they know who received the meals included in the price of their Sleeping Car ticket.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 25, 2013)

rusty spike said:


> Buy a couple of small combination luggage locks (TSA approved for airline use). They work great...


Where's the lock that protects my stuff from 400 odd TSA agents that have been fired for theft?

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/case-missing-ipad-17345183


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## SarahZ (Jun 25, 2013)

^^ Which is why I put my valuables in my carry-on or purse instead of my checked baggage.


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## NW cannonball (Jun 25, 2013)

All my cash, credit cards, and cameras stay with my person. My cheap-when-I-bought-it-three-years-ago netbook can stay at my seat with the rest of my small carry-on backpack (full of 3 liters of tap water, some dirty and some clean socks, rain jacket and hat, and some phone and laptop chargers and non-perishable food. My other (airline-size) carryon can stay in the downstairs luggage or in the rack above - anybody want some cheap clothing, some of it dirty - some scissors, some gels and liquids you can buy for 10 bucks at wal-mart -- so what. If I have to transfer to a plane I dump the water and move the pointy and electric things to the bigger carryon and check it.

No problem, no delay.

Let's be reasonable here. Most travelers have very little worth stealing - (what? cash? drugs? ) mostly dirty socks and underwear (and some clean, grant that).


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## crescent2 (Jun 25, 2013)

We always took our electronics (all small) and valuables with us, too. Better safe than sorry theory. If you're a woman a largish cloth purse, or a small cloth tote bag for anyone, works great for that. If someone wants my mom jeans, I can't do a whole about that except use the little luggage locks, which usually we didn't bother with.

I do sympathize with anyone who's been a victim of theft, though. It only takes one bad apple.


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## gmushial (Jun 25, 2013)

NW cannonball said:


> All my cash, credit cards, and cameras stay with my person. My cheap-when-I-bought-it-three-years-ago netbook can stay at my seat with the rest of my small carry-on backpack (full of 3 liters of tap water, some dirty and some clean socks, rain jacket and hat, and some phone and laptop chargers and non-perishable food. My other (airline-size) carryon can stay in the downstairs luggage or in the rack above - anybody want some cheap clothing, some of it dirty - some scissors, some gels and liquids you can buy for 10 bucks at wal-mart -- so what. If I have to transfer to a plane I dump the water and move the pointy and electric things to the bigger carryon and check it.No problem, no delay.
> 
> Let's be reasonable here. Most travelers have very little worth stealing - (what? cash? drugs? ) mostly dirty socks and underwear (and some clean, grant that).


Have to agree. The only thing that I would add - something that I learned traveling the trains in India - sleep with a leg/foot/ankle through a strap of my most important carry-on bag [where most of the theft takes place while people are sleeping: the overhead racks routinely get pilfered] - they'll simply take your bag, take it somewhere else, go through it, take what they want and leave the bag there.... so: put your most valuable bag on the floor by one's feet, put a foot through a strap, and then let them try ;-) ;-(


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## rusty spike (Jun 25, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> rusty spike said:
> 
> 
> > Buy a couple of small combination luggage locks (TSA approved for airline use). They work great...
> ...


Point taken but if my luggage with a lock on it is sitting next to yours without one, any bets on whose will get "rifled through"?


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## guest in the west (Jun 25, 2013)

gmushial said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > All my cash, credit cards, and cameras stay with my person. My cheap-when-I-bought-it-three-years-ago netbook can stay at my seat with the rest of my small carry-on backpack (full of 3 liters of tap water, some dirty and some clean socks, rain jacket and hat, and some phone and laptop chargers and non-perishable food. My other (airline-size) carryon can stay in the downstairs luggage or in the rack above - anybody want some cheap clothing, some of it dirty - some scissors, some gels and liquids you can buy for 10 bucks at wal-mart -- so what. If I have to transfer to a plane I dump the water and move the pointy and electric things to the bigger carryon and check it.
> ...


Anyone know whether this is really true on Amtrak: while people are sleeping overhead racks routinely get pilfered? Sounds way exaggerated to me, unless the person meant on trains in India (not entirely clear from the post).


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## gmushial (Jun 25, 2013)

rusty spike said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > rusty spike said:
> ...


The one with the lock on it, ie, it probably has something in it worth locking up. ... I try with my bag to say loudly: there is nothing here worth stealing - a duffle left over from 'Nam, a piece of iron wire to secure the zipper, my name stenciled on it in international orange, but 30 years later looks unloved etc... and if somebody does open it, the first thing they run into are dirty stinky socks and equally stinky running shoes... the same reason the Nikon on my camera is behind a layer of black electrical tape: don't call attention to oneself, and any attention one does draw, make it clearly say: nothing worth stealing here.


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## gmushial (Jun 25, 2013)

guest in the west said:


> gmushial said:
> 
> 
> > NW cannonball said:
> ...


My comment w/re overhead pilfering had to do with Indian trains, but the lessons learned there.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 25, 2013)

guest in the west said:


> gmushial said:
> 
> 
> > NW cannonball said:
> ...


He was talking about India, but most Countries have this Problem on Trains in Coach and in Europe the Professional Thieves work the Compartments since Strangers mix together in the Couchette Compartments! Amtrak surprisingly has Very Little Theft, most that occurs is due to Passenger Carlessness !


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## gmushial (Jun 25, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> guest in the west said:
> 
> 
> > gmushial said:
> ...


;-) ON this is to say that if one had their own private car, such wouldn't be a problem ?? ;-) OFF


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## rusty spike (Jun 25, 2013)

gmushial said:


> rusty spike said:
> 
> 
> > Devil's Advocate said:
> ...


Well, in that case, all bets are off. :hi: :giggle:


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## VentureForth (Jun 25, 2013)

I think that the resurrection of this thread by Guest was perfectly fine. They didn't address the OP - they were sharing their relevant experience, though their tone seemed archaic.

The lessons and tips resulting have been valuable. The bickering about this thread being two years old, not so much...


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## JoeBas (Jun 25, 2013)

rusty spike said:


> Point taken but if my luggage with a lock on it is sitting next to yours without one, any bets on whose will get "rifled through"?


Locks usually indicate valuables.


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## rusty spike (Jun 25, 2013)

JoeBas said:


> rusty spike said:
> 
> 
> > Point taken but if my luggage with a lock on it is sitting next to yours without one, any bets on whose will get "rifled through"?
> ...


While that may be true, we are talking about someone "rifling through" luggage indicating there is a time contraint and taking the time to cut off a lock is not something he would do. From what I read, "jellybelly" had no such locks. IMHO, his luggage would not have been touched had there been locks on it. I don't carry all my electronic gadgets to the dining car. Jewelry, cash etc, of course but some of it has to stay in the coach/sleeper. Having said all that, I'm not aware that "felony theft" and "rifling" luggage is a significant problem on Amtrak.


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## Ryan (Jun 25, 2013)

VentureForth said:


> They didn't address the OP - they were sharing their relevant experience, though their tone seemed archaic.


Dlagruga did directly address the OP, who is long gone. Not sure why some took offense to folks pointing that out to him.


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## TVRM610 (Jun 25, 2013)

What about dining car staff that won't allow you to bring anything with you? I've heard it announced on trains "electronic devices are not to be brought into the dining car" which is ridiculous (LSA playing dictator) but seriously anyone have any issue with that?


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## June the Coach Rider (Jun 25, 2013)

I have traveled overnight on trains in coach and on the lower level we can see the luggage that is outside the door. People are going thru looking for their own luggage, I have never seen anyone rifling thru luggage or even opening luggage in that area. I know I am not an expert, but in my experience, that area is too busy for someone to try and spend the time to break a lock, riffle thru the luggage and then get away somewhere with the goods.

I know that on the LSL which is the only train I can comment on for the upstairs, there would definitely be someone aware if someone grabs luggage that is not sitting in the area, we all seem to know what belongs to everyone around us. It is just that way in coach. You watch out for your neighbor.


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## gmushial (Jun 25, 2013)

JoeBas said:


> rusty spike said:
> 
> 
> > Point taken but if my luggage with a lock on it is sitting next to yours without one, any bets on whose will get "rifled through"?
> ...


Over time I've found there is a compromise: a lock does take longer to defeat, but it calls attention to something might be worth taking; conversely, no lock means that someone can just unzip and look... hence the iron wire (type used to tie rebar together) tied in a knot - doesn't call attention - other than maybe: this dude is really poor, can't even afford a lock - and taking time/strong fingers to untie.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 25, 2013)

gmushial said:


> Over time I've found there is a compromise: a lock does take longer to defeat, but it calls attention to something might be worth taking; conversely, no lock means that someone can just unzip and look... hence the iron wire (type used to tie rebar together) tied in a knot - doesn't call attention - other than maybe: this dude is really poor, can't even afford a lock - and taking time/strong fingers to untie.


I doubt I'll ever use this method but I do admit to enjoying the simplicity, resourcefulness, and humor involved in creating it.


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## chakk (Jun 25, 2013)

Checking luggage is no guarantee against theft of contents either. It has happened many times on airlines, and I have even read about such cases on Amtrak.


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## crescent2 (Jun 25, 2013)

TVRM610 said:


> What about dining car staff that won't allow you to bring anything with you? I've heard it announced on trains "electronic devices are not to be brought into the dining car" which is ridiculous (LSA playing dictator) but seriously anyone have any issue with that?


I started taking trips on the Crescent before many small electronics existed, but beginning from the time of (clunky) cell phones and cameras with film in them, I've taken them with me to the dining car. The most we've ever had were a small pink Acer netbook, a Garmin GPSr, a small Canon digital camera, a Kindle, and various cell phones over the years. If my purse is tiny, I take it, and always our wallets, of course. I have a large (well, medium by some women's standards, but what I call large) cloth purse which I use to put all these items in, including my little purse or wallet. It's never been questioned, maybe because it's actually a somewhat large purse. I don't know how they could forbid taking that into the dining car. The contents aren't visible, and they don't prohibit purses. I'd think a guy could get by with taking a small cloth shopping-type bag, or a messenger bag, and sitting it beside his feet if there's no room on the seat. There was always plenty of room on the seat for my bag. Hubby and I were always seated on the same side of the table.

I never take extra jewelry or other valuables when I travel.

Perhaps the announcement meant don't use your laptop or whatever while you're sitting at the table. There really isn't space to use your electronics there.


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## TVRM610 (Jun 25, 2013)

Crescent2... Good to know your experience.

I've never heard these announcements in the east... Only out west on the Starlight and Chief. (Maybe the zephyr too... Can't recall for sure).

I don't like tacky announcements like that...

I do agree a messenger bag or something like that would well. (I've never had an issue with security, but totally understand someone wanting to keep valuables with them.)


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## AlanB (Jun 25, 2013)

TVRM610 said:


> What about dining car staff that won't allow you to bring anything with you? I've heard it announced on trains "electronic devices are not to be brought into the dining car" which is ridiculous (LSA playing dictator) but seriously anyone have any issue with that?


Well there is no such rule in the handbook, so yes I would take issue with that. Now if someone brought their laptop with them and were attempting to use it on the table, then I would take issue with that too and I could see the LSA asking that it be put away.

But were and LSA to attempt to tell me that cell phones aren't permitted in the dining car, I'd want to see the rule in the handbook. And if he/she declined by saying "I don't have it handy", then I would happily provide it for them.

That said, I think that this problem has largely been dealt with. I haven't seen any recent reports of any LSA's trying that in over a year IIRC.


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## me_little_me (Jun 26, 2013)

At times when I've been concerned about luggage, I take along a gun lock (one with a looped chain) and lock the handle to the overhead rack or the rack at the end of the car. I don't own a gun but our local police department was giving them away. I've even simply locked two bags together (not easy to carry away).


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