# id check



## lay (Jul 28, 2011)

hi everyone

i just get confused because next month i like to travel from philadelphia,PA to richmond,VA with amtrak carolinian...

but i am traveling with 1 of my friend who doesnt have an issue id such a driver license ( he has passport from his country)

yesterday he confused about any check point from border patrol who jump in on amtrak train...

i am not worry about me but just worry about my friend..

please anyone who ever ride carolinian amtrak give me input..

is there any border check point between new york an north carolina or just on my journey from philadelphia to richmond

thankyou

regards


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## HoosierStater (Jul 28, 2011)

There's not going to be any border control point, because there's no international border along the route. However, Amtrak "requires" a government-issued photo ID for most tickets. In my experience, they don't always check it. If your friend has a passport that should work, they have photographs and are issued by governments.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't know why, but somehow this country has gotten mixed up into thinking that "valid ID" EQUALS a drivers license. A drivers license is usually a valid photo ID, but so are many other items such as a Passport, State ID, Passport Card, Military ID, etc. Your friends Passport is a valid ID.


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## lay (Jul 28, 2011)

thank you guys

because i got confused to about this situation..

i read on another post if the federal gov already sign/deal with amtrak and greyhound to check the passengers near the border or at least 100 mile near border....

cause i just make sure there is no check point between philadelphia,pa to richmond,va....( check point from ICE)

because like i said my friend is undocumented but he got his country passport...

anyone ever rode the carolinian between this city please give me suggestion........

also why this train make 25-30 minutes stop at washington dc...?

thanks


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## HoosierStater (Jul 28, 2011)

There is no check point between Philadelphia and Richmond, since there is no international border between the two cities. Neither city is that close to an international border. The stop in DC is to change engines: from Philadelphia to Washington, the train uses an electric locomotive powered from overhead wires; from Washington south the train uses a diesel locomotive.


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## lay (Jul 28, 2011)

thank you HoosierStater for the information...

if anyone lese got experience pleasepost some comment..

thanks


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## TVRM610 (Jul 28, 2011)

well for what it's worth we are talking about two different things here I think.

1 - Amtrak Checking ID - When Amtrak checks for ID on board the train they are checking that you are who your ticket says you are. So they are asking for a valid photo ID, that matches the name on your ticket. As far as I know, that is all they check, that your name is the name that is printed on your ticket.

2- Border Patrol Checking ID - This is when US Border Patrol officers board the train and ask questions, and ask for ID. The reality is they can board almost any train, at any time they feel like and ask for ID etc. I've personally only seen this once, and it was on the Lake Shore Limited early in the morning. An officer asked me if I was a US Citizen, I said yes, and he said thanks. That was it for me. Not sure what happens to other people. The Border Patrol boards anywhere they want, and it is unscheduled, and not planned, but rather "random." If this happens, your friend may or may not need to present documentation that they are legally in the country. I honestly don't know how that works, but I would imagine it would be something you should look into before your friend travels by any means in this country.


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## Jim G. (Jul 28, 2011)

I do believe if you have a passport and it's stamped by US Customs you are considered to be in this country legally. Same as if I go to another country and they stamp my passport.


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## Jim G. (Jul 28, 2011)

As far as ID's go, a passport is about as good as it gets.


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## AlanB (Jul 28, 2011)

HoosierStater said:


> There is no check point between Philadelphia and Richmond, since there is no international border between the two cities. Neither city is that close to an international border. The stop in DC is to change engines: from Philadelphia to Washington, the train uses an electric locomotive powered from overhead wires; from Washington south the train uses a diesel locomotive.


While I admit up front that it is highly unlikely that one will find the Border patrol checkign the Carolinian, it is still possible that it could happen. The Atlantic Ocean is considered a US Border and therefore since the Carolinian runs within 100 miles of a US Border the Border Patrol can indeed board said train and perform a check.

Don't know that I've ever heard of the Carolinian being subjected to such a check, but within the past 2 years there has been at least 1 report of a Silver train being checked.

Lay, a foreign passport with a stamp from Immigration would be considered proof by the agents that someone is in the country legally.


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## George Harris (Jul 29, 2011)

A few years ago there were three of us traveling on business between San Fran Ferry Building and Sacramento. We were obviously traveling together. We got the random ID check and showed the guy a Mississippi driver's license, a New York State driver's license, and a French passport. Somewhat of a strange look, but no problem.


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## lay (Jul 29, 2011)

thank you guys for the input

if most people said safe and there is no border patrol between my journey i will tell my friend to buy the ticket

thanks again


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## cirdan (Jul 29, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> I don't know why, but somehow this country has gotten mixed up into thinking that "valid ID" EQUALS a drivers license. A drivers license is usually a valid photo ID, but so are many other items such as a Passport, State ID, Passport Card, Military ID, etc. Your friends Passport is a valid ID.


I can confirm this.

I'm British and don't have any ID besides my passport and have never had any trouble travelling on Amtrak.

In fact nobody ever asked to see my passport except when I was collecting my tickets at the ticket office (I normally buy them online from home and when arriving in the US I pick them up at the first Amtrak station I visit).

I never had any sort of trouble with Amtrak. In fact all the staff I ever had contact with were extremely helpful, even when I was stupid.


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## lay (Jul 29, 2011)

Cirdan

Where are you going with amtrak???

Which corridor??

Thanks


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## cirdan (Jul 29, 2011)

Jim G. said:


> I do believe if you have a passport and it's stamped by US Customs you are considered to be in this country legally. Same as if I go to another country and they stamp my passport.


I don't think the stamp counts for much because at least in my passport half the stamps are close to illegible. They look as if immigration never actually clean their stamps. I'm sure somebody with a criminal mind would have no trouble manipulating that.

What is more important is the green slip they give you at immigration and which you have to give back when you leave the country. That you should take good care of and never lose it (and never forget to give it back).

Some people staple it inside their passports to make sure they don't lose it

I have a friend who lost his and this was years ago but still years later he's on some sort of a black list because every time immigration or the police check him he gets held while they make some phone calls and then they eventually let him go again but it's quite unnerving.


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## cirdan (Jul 29, 2011)

lay said:


> Cirdan
> 
> Where are you going with amtrak???
> 
> ...


Hi, not got anything planned right now but am hoping to come to the USA around November

Stuff I've done so far is:

2008 trip:

Raleigh NC - Philadelphia

Philadephia - Pittsburgh

Pittsburgh - Chicago

Chicago - Dallas

2009 trip:

Atlanta - New Orleans

New Orleans - San Antonio

San Antonio - Dallas

2010 trip:

Chicago - Albuquerque

I haven't got the next trip worked out yet but was thinking maybe the Caliphornia Zephyr.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 29, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> An officer asked me if I was a US Citizen, I said yes, and he said thanks. That was it for me. Not sure what happens to other people.


If you replied "Sí", "Oui", or "Da", things might have been different. :giggle:

I have to go onto a tangent here, and mention that back when I was growing up, we were taught that one of the bad and evil things about the Soviet Union was that people had to carry government issued papers with them when they traveled even inside their own country. Supposedly, here in America, we don't need to carry any kind of papers on us as we can freely travel around.


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## Shanghai (Jul 29, 2011)

I lived in Hong Kong for seven years.

I was required to always carry my Hong Kong ID Card

at all times as were all residents of the colony.

It was "fun" when I was asked for identification in

the United States, I would show my HKID, and the

people asking would go ballistic!!

It worked very well when I got caught with a driving

infraction. I would show my Hong Kong Driving License

and the policeman would be shocked to see it. Three

times the policeman let me go rather than give me a

citation.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 29, 2011)

cirdan said:


> lay said:
> 
> 
> > Cirdan
> ...


My daughter & I will be on the CA from CHI to PRO (11/20-21). My first LD trip. Can't wait.


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## ACVitale (Jul 29, 2011)

I think the issue is that LAY is travelling with someone who has a valid passport from their country but, is not here legally. They probably came in as a tourist or similar and never left. (Common). They are concerned that if the ICE team boards the train the "friend" will be detained and/or deported. Hence, the concern over ICE.

The likelyhood of them getting caught on the Amtrak train is minimal however, on a personal level I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigration. There are many paths to legal immigration and the fact that some choose to cut corners and the system puts those who do it legally further behind.

So in response, Good luck but, my gut is churning.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 29, 2011)

ACVitale,

I agree with your assessment, however I have a good friend who lived here on a work visa for years, he loves this country and wants to stay but has simply not been able to stay despite meetings with multiple immigration lawyers etc. It's not very easy to stay here unless you get Married it seems. Ha. Now he has followed the law, and is back in Australia, and I respect him for that, but I can sort of see the other side of the coin.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 29, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> ACVitale,
> 
> I agree with your assessment, however I have a good friend who lived here on a work visa for years, he loves this country and wants to stay but has simply not been able to stay despite meetings with multiple immigration lawyers etc. It's not very easy to stay here unless you get Married it seems. Ha. Now he has followed the law, and is back in Australia, and I respect him for that, but I can sort of see the other side of the coin.


In all honesty lots of countries make it even harder than the US to legally immigrate including Australia! :excl: In the current political climate with the t-pub morons in the midst of bankrupting this country,nothing will get done in the area of immigration until after the 2012 elections, and then will depend on who wins the elections?? When economic times are hard people are looking for scapegoats, they forget their ancestors all came from somewhere else!!(except Native Americans and look how we treated them!)


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## lay (Jul 29, 2011)

acvitale you are right..

i will travel with one of my friend who is illegally in this country..

so i just tell him to be carefull and make sure there is no border check or kinda ICE officer jump in the train between philadelphia,PA to richmond,VA on CAROLINIAN TRAIN...

i think maybe there is no check point on this corridor like on the north side upstate NY or southwest like TEXAS or New Mexico....( cause that side near the international border)

please anyone whoever rode CAROLINIAN AMTRAK please give me input as much as you can

thank you much

regards


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## jis (Jul 29, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Lay, a foreign passport with a stamp from Immigration would be considered proof by the agents that someone is in the country legally.


We need to say a bit more than that....

For non-US citizens who are also not Canadian (not sure what rules apply to Mexicans these days)

If you are a permanent resident then you need to have your Green Card or an I-551 (or whatever the heck they call it these days) Processed stamp in your passport to be legal.

If you entered from a visa waiver country using one of those green I-94W forms, then just an entry stamp in the passport is OK (I think though I am not sure, since I have never personally done that), though you might need the stub from the green form too. Again having never done it myself I don;t know for sure.

If you entered using a visa then in addition to having a stamped passport you also need to have the (white) I-94 stub with the info on it and duly stamped by CBP, to establish legal presence in the country.


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## leemell (Jul 29, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > An officer asked me if I was a US Citizen, I said yes, and he said thanks. That was it for me. Not sure what happens to other people.
> ...


This is because the Soviet Union required an internal passport for travel. You had to ask for permission to leave your home province. If you were traveling without your passport or permission, you could and probably would be arrested immediately. They checked for those "papers" at virtually every internal border.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 29, 2011)

leemell said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > TVRM610 said:
> ...


I realize you were just making a statement leemell, but do you honestly think we are that far away from this? I mean, you can't travel by greyhound, air, or Amtrak without an "approved ID" and the requirements of travel seem to be getting more and more strict every year. I realize we are not there yet, but we are getting quite close!


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## saxman (Jul 29, 2011)

lay said:


> acvitale you are right..
> 
> i will travel with one of my friend who is illegally in this country..
> 
> ...


I really honestly think you and your friend have nothing to worry about. I have ridden almost every single Amtrak route over 100,000 miles on and only seen border guards on one train in Louisiana. I think they were more for getting drugs than anything. They didn't ask me anything. I would go ahead and buy a ticket and not worry about it.


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## lay (Jul 29, 2011)

thank you saxman ...

also thanks for everyone who give me input..

regards


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## TVRM610 (Jul 29, 2011)

lay said:


> thank you saxman ...
> 
> also thanks for everyone who give me input..
> 
> regards


I'll also mention that I have ridden the Carolinian 3 times in the last year and have never seen border patrol. Keep in mind that if an Amtrak employee asks for an ID, all they are really going to check is that your ID is the same as the name printed on the ticket.


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## Gabbytony (Jul 29, 2011)

Have him go to Mexico and enter from there. We let anyone come in from there.


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## leemell (Jul 29, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> leemell said:
> 
> 
> > Cho Cho Charlie said:
> ...



There is at least an order of magnitude difference between the old USSR and today's USA.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 30, 2011)

leemell said:


> There is at least an order of magnitude difference between the old USSR and today's USA.


I totally agree, I was speaking specifically of the freedom of travel by the way. Clearly we are not there yet, but these things do not happen overnight and we are getting closer and closer it seems.


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## lay (Jul 30, 2011)

Tvrm610

How far did you travel with carolinian...

I mean from where and where is your destination

Thanks


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## jis (Jul 30, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> leemell said:
> 
> 
> > There is at least an order of magnitude difference between the old USSR and today's USA.
> ...


I think it will take an amendment of the constitution to actually get to the travel situation that existed in the Soviet Union, in this country. We have not even taken the first baby step in tat direction so far, notwithstanding all the excited arm waving that goes on regarding this subject. :help:


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## TVRM610 (Jul 30, 2011)

lay said:


> Tvrm610
> 
> How far did you travel with carolinian...
> 
> ...


I've ridden the entire length from New York to Charlotte twice, and I've ridden from Charlotte to Raleigh once. All three since the beginning of the year.


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## Ryan (Jul 30, 2011)

jis said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > leemell said:
> ...


Absolutely, that's the whole reason that the Constitution exists. Pretty ridiculous that people even think that way.


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## TVRM610 (Jul 30, 2011)

I respectfully disagree... I think we have taken a few adult sized steps toward it since 9/11. Requiring ID for such a majority of transit passengers is much more than a baby step in my opInion.

That being said, I try to always carry two forms of id (usually state Id, and a passport card) so that I can satisfy any request.



jis said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > leemell said:
> ...


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## Ryan (Jul 30, 2011)

"All transit passengers"? Absolutely not. "Some transit passengers", maybe even "most".

Most assuredly not "all".


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## TVRM610 (Jul 30, 2011)

Very true, most railroads other than Amtrak, and bus lines other than greyhound do not require id. Bad wording on my part.

Edit- actually, it seems that greyhound might not require id for travel... If just an amtrak thing, that makes me feel better about the whole deal.



Ryan said:


> "All transit passengers"? Absolutely not. "Some transit passengers", maybe even "most".
> 
> Most assuredly not "all".


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## VentureForth (Aug 17, 2011)

Has this trip happened yet? It looks like the Feds are stepping up checks, though mostly in Florida, it seems.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 17, 2011)

Maybe if you don't live near the Mexican boarder everything feels the same to you. For those of us who do live near the boarder there have been a lot of changes in recent years, most of which don't make me feel any safer but do make me feel like we're becoming less and less of the open and free democracy I once had so much faith in. If you happen to believe that unwarranted wiretapping is illegal or that water-boarding is in fact torture, and this included the formal views and policies of the United States up until just a few years ago, then it's hard to argue that the Constitution hasn't already been cast aside when deemed advantageous by those who have pledged to respect and defend it. Although we are nowhere near the level of a true police state our continued movement in that direction and the lack of outcry that has resulted is deeply concerning to me.


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## Railfan415 (Aug 17, 2011)

it does happen so be careful ,http://youtube/5DVFPjfPf8s,


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## AlanB (Oct 30, 2011)

Here's an interesting update to this topic from earlier this year:



> The U.S. Border Patrol has quietly stopped its controversial practice of routinely searching buses, trains and airports for illegal immigrants at transportation hubs along the northern border and in the nation's interior, preventing agents from using what had long been an effective tool for tracking down people here illegally,


Read more.

This should mean no more delays for the LSL running across NY State, as well as cutting out the check on the Empire Builder too.


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## jdcnosse (Oct 30, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Here's an interesting update to this topic from earlier this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that why when aboard the southwest chief the dea came on board in April, and just this last time in October local police came on board? Lol


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## Everydaymatters (Oct 30, 2011)

On the way back from Gathering V, at Havre, because it is a long stop most people get off. I was reading a good book and stayed on. The Border Patrol stopped by my room and asked if I was "a citizen of the United States". I replied "yes, I am" and he went on his way.

I was surprised to see him and thought maybe he was going to ask to see my ticket or ID or something. He didn't. Just asked "how are you" and if I was a citizen.

After that I got off the train (still in Havre) and saw there were four Border Patrol officers.


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## jis (Oct 30, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> On the way back from Gathering V, at Havre, because it is a long stop most people get off. I was reading a good book and stayed on. The Border Patrol stopped by my room and asked if I was "a citizen of the United States". I replied "yes, I am" and he went on his way.
> 
> I was surprised to see him and thought maybe he was going to ask to see my ticket or ID or something. He didn't. Just asked "how are you" and if I was a citizen.
> 
> After that I got off the train (still in Havre) and saw there were four Border Patrol officers.


I got off the same train that day as soon as it stopped at Havre, and went off outside the station to get a picture of the statue of J.J.Hill, the "Empire Builder". On the way back I ran into a CBP agent, said Hi to him and asked him what was up. He said "nothing special, just the usual". Interestingly he did not bother asking me whether I am a US citizen or not. OTOH, the Havre police did haul off one guy who was already drunk that early in the day and was making a nuisance of himself.

BTW, at Shelby I had the pleasure of meeting the Mayor of the town. I was chatting with the Engineer when he looks up and waves at someone walking down the parking lot and shouts out "Hello Mr. Mayor! What are you doing here?" He walked upto us and the Engineer introduced me to him, and then they started chatting about local matters and I walked off taking pictures of the train.


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## afigg (Oct 30, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Here's an interesting update to this topic from earlier this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to see that someone in charge is trying to rein in our security-industrial complex a bit. Same AP article posted at the Toronto Globe and Mail where the reader comments have a very different general tone and take on the matter. [End of overt political section]. h34r:

We should check to see if the OTP of the Lake Shore Limited improves over the next month or two. I saw comments elsewhere that Amtrak managers had taken to riding the LSL to try to get the Border Patrol to not delay the train so much.


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