# Brightline not operating due to Covid? Any idea when they might resume operations.



## Steve4031 (Feb 19, 2021)

I will be traveling to Florida the last week in March. Part of the reason for the trip was to ride brightline. I went on their website to check schedules and discovered that it was not operating and was instructed to check back. Tri-rail is running. Why would Brightline not be running.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 19, 2021)

I believe @jis says it's due to PTC, not COVID


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## TrackWalker (Feb 19, 2021)

Help Center | Brightline


Brightline ticket booking




www.gobrightline.com





"Is Brightline's service temporarily closed?"

"Yes, due to CDC social distancing guidelines, mandated work-from-home policies, and other considerations our service remains suspended. Brightline continues monitoring current events and evaluating scenarios for resuming passenger service. "


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## jis (Feb 19, 2021)

Steve4031 said:


> I will be traveling to Florida the last week in March. Part of the reason for the trip was to ride brightline. I went on their website to check schedules and discovered that it was not operating and was instructed to check back. Tri-rail is running. Why would Brightline not be running.


Try 4th quarter of this year. See below.


AmtrakBlue said:


> I believe @jis says it's due to PTC, not COVID


Early in 2020 Brightline, FECR and Florida Dispatching Company gave up on their original plan to enhance the existing ATC system on FECR to make it one that met the PTC requirements. Instead they signed a new contract with Wabtec to install I-ETMS, The work started around mid-year 2020 AFAICT.

Currently certification tests are in progress and it is expected to be certified between Miami Central and West Palm Beach, and also Miami Central to CP Iris later this year. Consequently Brightline expects to start operating on its southern segment late this year. Also Tri Rail expects to start operating to Miami Central later this year. That is why you can see Birghtline trains running occasionally at present, but they are not in service. They are carrying out PTC testing. It is likely that an occasional Tri Rail train would show up at Miami Central while PTC cross testing starts for Tri Rail operations on FECR trackage.

Meanwhile FECR has been operating its freight trains within the low frequency exemption from FRA by not running any more trains than are allowed per day on a non-PTC railroad.

Brightline's customer facing story is that it is all due to COVID. Of course it is their choice to decide how much money they can afford to lose, since they were losing money hand over fist on that segment even before there was any COVID. They simply chose to use this opportunity to put an end to all that money losing binge for a while, which of course was going to get even worse with COVID.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 19, 2021)

Jishnu, thank you. That was was very helpful. I appreciate the time you took to explain this to me.


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## railiner (Feb 19, 2021)

Steve4031 said:


> I will be traveling to Florida the last week in March. Part of the reason for the trip was to ride brightline. I went on their website to check schedules and discovered that it was not operating and was instructed to check back. Tri-rail is running. Why would Brightline not be running.


PTC and pandemic issues aside, when Brightline was running, its fares were much higher than Tri-Rail's, perhaps because Tri-Rail is government owned, and carries commuters. Brightline was designed to carry passengers across the state, not just the short segment it began with. Believe they did run just to demonstrate their future project, and gain support...


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## jis (Feb 19, 2021)

railiner said:


> PTC and pandemic issues aside, when Brightline was running, its fares were much higher than Tri-Rail's, perhaps because Tri-Rail is government owned, and carries commuters. Brightline was designed to carry passengers across the state, not just the short segment it began with. Believe they did run just to demonstrate their future project, and gain support...


Also in general the projected Brightline fares are significantly higher than the typical Amtrak Coach fare between those points (ORL, MIA). They are completely different sorts of service. It is far from clear that everyone will want to spend considerably more to save two hours.


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## IndyLions (Feb 19, 2021)

Has anyone here ridden on the service? I have not, but have seen (positive review) YouTube videos online. I’m anxious to ride in that new equipment, because that’s what’s coming to the Midwest – and that’s what many here hope will replace Amfleet I’s. While they look great on paper and on video, I’d like to actually ride in one before I pass judgment


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## jis (Feb 19, 2021)

IndyLions said:


> Has anyone here ridden on the service? I have not, but have seen (positive review) YouTube videos online. I’m anxious to ride in that new equipment, because that’s what’s coming to the Midwest – and that’s what many here hope will replace Amfleet I’s. While they look great on paper and on video, I’d like to actually ride in one before I pass judgment


Yes. I have ridden on it somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen times, and I also know a lot of people in the organization including the boss, Patrick Goddard. It is indeed an excellent. But the number of people involved in providing said service on platform at station and on trains was impressive. 

In some ways I think the Midwest equipment is a small step down from the Brightline equipment. Brightline's goal is to provide an upscale service, which is different from the goal of the Midwest service.


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## me_little_me (Feb 19, 2021)

IndyLions said:


> Has anyone here ridden on the service? I have not, but have seen (positive review) YouTube videos online. I’m anxious to ride in that new equipment, because that’s what’s coming to the Midwest – and that’s what many here hope will replace Amfleet I’s. While they look great on paper and on video, I’d like to actually ride in one before I pass judgment


My wife and I loved our test run last year before returning home after our cruise. But it's not just the cars. It's the service. They were there to please you (we went one way from FTL to MIA in each class to check them both out). Their "club" offered far more than any Amtrak club and no Lounge Dictators telling you what you can't have or can't do. If you were confused as to boarding, they were more than glad to help and the food offered was excellent. The stations were big, cheery, clean and well-kept. Miami station had very nice places to eat (we ate lunch there but didn't look for a place to eat in FTL).


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 19, 2021)

IndyLions said:


> Has anyone here ridden on the service? I have not, but have seen (positive review) YouTube videos online. I’m anxious to ride in that new equipment, because that’s what’s coming to the Midwest – and that’s what many here hope will replace Amfleet I’s. While they look great on paper and on video, I’d like to actually ride in one before I pass judgment



I have. The equipment is nice, feels very new and modern. The standard waiting areas are nicer than Amtrak’s first class waiting areas. The whole system is very impressive.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 19, 2021)

Early in 2020 Brightline, FECR and Florida Dispatching Company gave up on their original plan to enhance the existing ATC system on FECR to make it one that met the PTC requirements. Instead they signed a new contract with Wabtec to install I-ETMS, The work started around mid-year 2020 AFAICT.

This was probably a smart decision. Isn't I-ETMS a more proven system?


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## sitzplatz17 (Feb 20, 2021)

IndyLions said:


> Has anyone here ridden on the service? I have not, but have seen (positive review) YouTube videos online. I’m anxious to ride in that new equipment, because that’s what’s coming to the Midwest – and that’s what many here hope will replace Amfleet I’s. While they look great on paper and on video, I’d like to actually ride in one before I pass judgment



my wife and I had a chance to ride about 2 years ago now. It was probably one of the most impressive rail operations I’ve ever used from customer service and design perspective. I do not say that lightly either, I’ve ridden on trains like the Shinkansen in Japan, I used to commute weekly on the ICE in Germany, and regularly took the Acela when I lived on the East Coast. 

Aside from the excellent customer service I’d also like to point out that the system was exceptionally accessible for those with limited mobility. Though I myself am able-bodied this is one of the things I’ve tried to notice more often in my new transit experiences, since I believe that accessible transit is valuable to everyone.


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## jiml (Feb 20, 2021)




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## VentureForth (Feb 24, 2021)

TrackWalker said:


> Help Center | Brightline
> 
> 
> Brightline ticket booking
> ...


So, that's pretty much a lie (*cough* excuse). They have a very comprehensive social distancing protocol on their website. So, it's like jis said - the PTC.

I just moved to Melbourne for a new job. Housing here is crazy difficult to find, so I'm staying in an apartment. I want to actually buy a home in Cocoa to take advantage of the Brightline station for Brevard County being located there.

I am excited to see it get started. This will be particularly crucial for those between West Palm Beach and Orlando where Amtrak doesn't serve, although there will only be a couple of communities served, initially.,


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## McIntyre2K7 (Aug 11, 2021)

It appears that Brightline will resume service in November 2021.


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## VentureForth (Aug 13, 2021)

jis said:


> Meanwhile FECR has been operating its freight trains within the low frequency exemption from FRA by not running any more trains than are allowed per day on a non-PTC railroad.


I know this is an old post, but I wanted to share that many of these freight trains are ballast trains, hauling rocks for construction. Last night, I saw a huge ballast consist being pulled by 4 regular locos, and 2 B units. I think they were B units, but they looked like aux fuel tanks. Can't see the need for that much fuel or how they would pump into the A units, so I think they were just cab-less locos. Wish I had a pic.

Regardless, the work continues!


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## jis (Aug 13, 2021)

VentureForth said:


> I know this is an old post, but I wanted to share that many of these freight trains are ballast trains, hauling rocks for construction. Last night, I saw a huge ballast consist being pulled by 4 regular locos, and 2 B units. I think they were B units, but they looked like aux fuel tanks. Can't see the need for that much fuel or how they would pump into the A units, so I think they were just cab-less locos. Wish I had a pic.
> 
> Regardless, the work continues!


They are LNG tankers. FEC has several locos semi-permanently coupled with an LNG tanker in the middle with pipes and pumps to move LNG to the locos when running. These locomotives run on LNG or diesel or a mix. What you refer to as the B units are not powered. They are just tankers.


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## VentureForth (Aug 13, 2021)

Well then, my first assumption that I backed away ftom was right. Good to know. Never seen a Class I use this.


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## west point (Aug 13, 2021)

If Florida doesn't get "Delta" under control expect a further delay.


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## jis (Aug 14, 2021)

VentureForth said:


> Well then, my first assumption that I backed away ftom was right. Good to know. Never seen a Class I use this.


I don't think any Class I uses this. They don't have the luxury of a busy captive segment and no worries about running their power far away from that captive area. FECR is not a Class I.


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## jis (Aug 14, 2021)

west point said:


> If Florida doesn't get "Delta" under control expect a further delay.


I don't know that any of the Greek letters has kept anything transportation from running in Florida of late.

The big fight in Florida these days is about schools, not trains or buses. Of course almost everyone seems to be defying the Governor's "expert"  advice and adding masking and/or vaccination requirements in some mix or the other.


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## Anderson (Aug 15, 2021)

jis said:


> I don't think any Class I uses this. They don't have the luxury of a busy captive segment and no worries about running their power far away from that captive area. FECR is not a Class I.


I thought I read that BNSF was experimenting with something like this...but it was one or two sets on a specific subdivision (which is within the realm of "can be kept in the neighborhood and inefficiencies blamed on R&D").


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## Cal (Aug 15, 2021)

jis said:


> FECR is not a Class I.


What is it then? And what makes a railroad a Class I railroad? 

What is BC Rail as well?


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## cirdan (Aug 15, 2021)

Cal said:


> What is it then? And what makes a railroad a Class I railroad?



I think it's something to do with the revenue.

As far as I know, FECR is a Class 2.

I think you need more than $ 250 million annually to be a class 1, but just $ 20 million to be a class 2.

There is also a class3 for anything below that.

EDIT: these are 1992 figures. they have been adjusted for inflation annually, and according to Wikipedia, the 2021 figures are $504,803,294 for Class I and $40,387,772 for Class II respectively

source









Railroad classes - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Qapla (Aug 15, 2021)

This may help explain the difference:



> In the United States, railroad carriers are designated as Class I, II, or III, according to size criteria set by the Surface Transportation Board in 1992 and adjusted for inflation annually. The annual revenue threshold for Class I rail carriers for 2019 was $504,803,294. According to said classification there are seven US Class I freight railroad companies including two Canadian carriers with subsidiary trackage in the US.
> 
> The seven Class I freight carriers are BNSF Railway, Canadian National Railway with its subsidiary Grand Trunk Corporation, Canadian Pacific Railway with its subsidiary Soo Line Corporation, CSX Transportation, Kansas City Southern Railway, Norfolk Southern Railway, and Union Pacific Railroad.
> 
> ...


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## jis (Aug 15, 2021)

Cal said:


> What is it then? And what makes a railroad a Class I railroad?


FECR used to be Class I before 1992, when the classification threshold was changed. After the change it became Class II.

Read all about the US (and Canadian) railroad classification system at...









Railroad classes - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






> What is BC Rail as well?


Currently, since it does not exist, it is no Class. It is part of the Canadian National. The last time it existed as an independent operating company (BC Rail Ltd.) it was a Canadian Class II.

The status of BC Rail Co. which was and is a Crown corporation and holding company, on behalf of the BC Government) of the complex lease of trackage, real estate and equipment to CN is interesting. Currently it is apparently a shell corporation with one and a half employee. BC Rail Ltd., which was the operating company under BC Rail Co. was sold to CN as part of the property lease deal, which is considered to be riddled with corruption and underhanded dealings by the BC Government.


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## McIntyre2K7 (Oct 20, 2021)

So it looks like Brightline will resume service on November 8th. There's also a free ride in it for you.


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## chrsjrcj (Oct 20, 2021)

You can technically book a ticket for November 1st, but there is a service alert that basically says it is a soft opening.


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## VentureForth (Oct 21, 2021)

Stuck in an infinite loop. Tried logging in: "Something went wrong". Tried to sign up: "Email is already in use".


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