# NYC's Knickerbocker hotel reopens, without subway entrance



## CHamilton (Feb 11, 2015)

New York City's Knickerbocker Hotel reopens more than a century after its debut



> For history buffs, there is one part of the Knickerbocker that unfortunately will not be re-opening: The sub-level ballroom, with a direct entrance from the subway platform.
> 
> When the hotel was built, the nascent subway was so exciting to John Jacob Astor IV he had a door — still visible today — installed to provide direct access to one of the early lines.
> 
> The area behind the door — a corridor leading to the upper levels of the hotel — is owned by the MTA, which apparently isn't interested in how much 21st century New Yorkers would be interested in a restored subway entrance.


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## SarahZ (Feb 11, 2015)

Pity about the parlor/ballroom. They could make a mint if they opened that up for weddings and other special occcasions.

I love that the subway entrance still has the old sign above the door.


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## NorthShore (Feb 12, 2015)

It seems too many building owners, which used to see having a direct transportation connection as a benefit to business, no longer view what was once an attractive amenity as anything but a bother.

In Chicago, downtown especially, many if not most L stations once had such connections. Now I can only think of about two stops that do. One at a government building. The other at a site which is or was city owned that preserves these connections only as part of passenger transfer right of way agreements.

Even malls don't seem to desire buses on their parking lots, and often do what they can to shuffle them off their properties.


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## fairviewroad (Feb 12, 2015)

The Market-Frankford El and Broad Street subway in Philly have many subterranean business/building entrances, particularly in the stretch between City Hall and Independence Mall.


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## John Bredin (Feb 13, 2015)

NorthShore said:


> In Chicago, downtown especially, many if not most L stations once had such connections. Now I can only think of about two stops that do. One at a government building. The other at a site which is or was city owned that preserves these connections only as part of passenger transfer right of way agreements.


More than you list:

*Daley Center (county courts) from Washington Blue

*Thompson Center (state offices) & 203 N. LaSalle (private offices) from Clark/Lake

*Merchandise Mart from Merchandise Mart 

*Block 37 mall from Washington Blue & Lake Red. IMHO, the pedway-level restaurants -- if not the most successful part of Block 37, definitely more successful than the second floor and above  -- show that the connection isn't there solely because agreements require it.

*Macy's Marshall Field's department store from Lake Red.

*Chase Tower (ex-One First National Plaza) and Three First National Plaza from Monroe and Washington Blue respectively, IIRC.

Mind you, I agree that it's a shame more downtown buildings don't tie directly into the subway.

*I was disappointed when the State St. Sears opened that it didn't connect to the subway. It was clear if you went into Sears' basement or the adjoining Blue station that there was a door between them but it wasn't open to the public. Mind you, it's a moot point now that the Sears store is closed. 

*I was also disappointed that Target, otherwise making good use of the old Carson Pirie Scott space that had a subway entrance, didn't have a subway entrance. However, a friend of mine argues that Target has no basement as the shoe store next door is under Target. I don't have enough of a spatial sense (or interest in shoes :giggle: ) to go down there and find out.

*I hope that if they ever do anything retail with the mid-block basement space at State & Adams (with the Starbucks on the corner and Walgreen's mid-block on Adams) that it has entrances to the Red and Blue subways. Again a moot point so long as that fancy marble lobby goes nowhere.


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## NorthShore (Feb 14, 2015)

John Bredin said:


> NorthShore said:
> 
> 
> > In Chicago, downtown especially, many if not most L stations once had such connections. Now I can only think of about two stops that do. One at a government building. The other at a site which is or was city owned that preserves these connections only as part of passenger transfer right of way agreements.
> ...


I was combining the walkway and entry point along the Pedway via the Washington stations into one, since it is just a matter of turn this way and it's one building, turn the other and it's that.
I had forgotten about the Mart (how could I, as it used to be CTA Headquarters?) And you're right about the First National Bank Bldg/Chase. I usually only use that station nights and weekends, so tend to forget the connection is still open days.

Sears closed off the old connection which used to pass through the basement by the previous Walgreens there. I used to use the passage in my high school days. It connected the State Street and Dearborn subway mezzanines. You could also enter Woolworth and Wiebolts off State, as well as the bank buildings (one s now a government building) on the west side of Dearborn, as well as an office building on the east side of the street. All now closed. The was also a bridge over Madison (now daylighted) connecting the bank buildings. This was necessary due to state laws at the time which frowned upon branch banking. Connecting the three buildings by pedestrian bridges, technically, made it all one bank complex.

There is a connection at Jackson to the old Goldblatts building/DePaul University at Jackson, but they keep the doors closed, except as an emergency exit.

Is the mezzanine at Madison/State even open to connect with anything? Or has that been closed since the Washington portion of the platform was shuttered?


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## John Bredin (Feb 14, 2015)

NorthShore said:


> Is the mezzanine at Madison/State even open to connect with anything? Or has that been closed since the Washington portion of the platform was shuttered?


Closed, and the street entrances have been turned into fenced planters. http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/images/StateSubway/washington-madison04.jpg


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## NorthShore (Feb 15, 2015)

That really sucks. I miss that under rail transfer point.

You used to be able to transfer for free at the mezzanine level of Jackson with Chicago card. Not sure if it is still in effect with Ventra. It ought to be possible at Washington.

Those are the old entrances north of Madison, however. Same on the south side (where the old Carson, Pierre, Scott building stands?) Was there ever a subway connection to their store?


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