# Pacific Parlour Car Temporary Withdrawal



## CHamilton (Nov 21, 2015)

Pacific Parlour Car Temporary Withdrawal


> A well-informed source has told RailPAC that Pacific Parlour Car service will be missing from the Coast Starlight in the coming weeks because the FRA has some concerns about the glazing. Apparently one car has already been fixed and Amtrak is awaiting delivery of material for the rest of the fleet. Unfortunately we cannot offer a schedule of which dates may be affected but we’ll do our best to keep you informed.
> 
> As the Parlour cars are cycled through the shops they will be temporarily replaced by Superliner lounge cars. We are assured there is no intent to end the service.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 21, 2015)

When they pulled the PPCs out of service last winter,supposedly for maintence and "upgrades", they mostly set on a siding and not much or nothing was done to them besides required inspections and maintence.

Hopefully Amtrak will take advantage of this opportunity to actually do some much needed work on these jewels!

As most of us know, substituting a SSL, or even worse a CCC, for a PPC sucks!


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## TylerP42 (Nov 21, 2015)

I wonder if they'll even put them back in service. I hope they do... That battery fire was scary, though.


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## TinCan782 (Nov 21, 2015)

TylerP42 said:


> I wonder if they'll even put them back in service. I hope they do... That battery fire was scary, though.


FWIW...From the last line of the article: "We are assured there is no intent to end the service."


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## TinCan782 (Nov 21, 2015)

Didn't a PPC have a window damaged from a rock-strike a few months ago?


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## oregon pioneer (Nov 21, 2015)

I was lucky to have one on my CS leg Monday night. I will report back on my return journey (CS on Dec 16-17). I doubt they will be back in service yet, but I will let you know what I get.


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## Shanghai (Nov 21, 2015)

I was on #11 on Wednesday. The PPC was in the consist.

I enjoyed dinner in the PPC.

It was my third trip this year in the PPC.

I hope Amtrak puts them back in service.


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## TylerP42 (Nov 21, 2015)

FrensicPic said:


> TylerP42 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if they'll even put them back in service. I hope they do... That battery fire was scary, though.
> ...


Yeah, but Amtrak can say what it wants and honestly do what it wants.


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## TinCan782 (Nov 21, 2015)

TylerP42 said:


> FrensicPic said:
> 
> 
> > TylerP42 said:
> ...


Hence the "FWIW" at the beginning of my comment!


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## JoeBas (Nov 23, 2015)

FrensicPic said:


> FWIW...From the last line of the article: "We are assured there is no intent to end the service."


I can almost hear the evil snickering behind the podium as they say that... :angry: Was the spokesman Joe Isuzu?

It's too bad, have my first CS trip scheduled for March, was hoping they'd limp along at least that long.


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## chrsjrcj (Nov 23, 2015)

Put me in the minority that prefers a sightseer lounge to the PPC. I like the bigger windows in the sightseer cars, but the PPC was much cleaner after a day than the sightseer lounge (at least on my one trip on #14).


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## andersone (Nov 23, 2015)

Hope they are back for my CS trip in May,,,, too early to cross my fingers?


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## keelhauled (Nov 23, 2015)

Last winter, Amtrak cut down on the Capitol Limited's consist. They said that come summer, they'd restore it back to the typical length. There was much cynicism and predictions that it was the beginning of the end of the CL, and that Amtrak was going to gut it to a CONO-like train, but lo and behold, spring came and the full consist returned as promised.


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## SP&S (Nov 23, 2015)

Hopefully it comes back (as it has several times before) before mid February. I've a bedroom reserved from LAX-PDX and I was looking forward to spending some time in the PPC. I've ridden that route with a CCC substituted before (couldn't gripe, it was right after an earthquake and they'd just reopened the tracks and was lucky to have a train at all) and it was OK, just not the Parlour.

Experience the PPC while you still can, and buy an overpriced drink too, they are quite old and one of these days they will be too expensive to keep in the consist.


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## yarrow (Nov 23, 2015)

SP&S said:


> Experience the PPC while you still can, and buy an overpriced drink too, they are quite old and one of these days they will be too expensive to keep in the consist.


basically the same age as the budd cars via rail operates


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## OBS (Nov 23, 2015)

yarrow said:


> SP&S said:
> 
> 
> > Experience the PPC while you still can, and buy an overpriced drink too, they are quite old and one of these days they will be too expensive to keep in the consist.
> ...


But I would speculate the Via Budd cars receive vastly superior maintenance work then the PPC's...


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## Davids (Nov 26, 2015)

I can confirm that ppc is in service on the train 14 I am on right now. However, there is no meal service and movie due to short staff. My SCA said amtrak is trying to get a ppc attendant in Sacramento hopefully the service is resumed in Sacramento.


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## Ronbo (Nov 26, 2015)

Davids said:


> I can confirm that ppc is in service on the train 14 I am on right now. However, there is no meal service and movie due to short staff. My SCA said amtrak is trying to get a ppc attendant in Sacramento hopefully the service is resumed in Sacramento.


Which 14 are you on? Departed LAX today or yesterday?


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 26, 2015)

Ronbo said:


> Davids said:
> 
> 
> > I can confirm that ppc is in service on the train 14 I am on right now. However, there is no meal service and movie due to short staff. My SCA said amtrak is trying to get a ppc attendant in Sacramento hopefully the service is resumed in Sacramento.
> ...


Sounds like today's since they haven't gotten to SAC yet.


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## BCL (Nov 26, 2015)

Never mind.


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## Palmland (Nov 26, 2015)

While I love the PPC, I do believe the Sightseer Lounge could be just as good or even better with its improved visability. All Amtrak needs to do is take the wonderful swivel upholstered seats out of the PPC and put them in a SSL along with improved table seating (please, no plastic seats) and you're good to go. Use the upstairs SSL cafe area for the attendant to serve his wine and other goodies. Food prep can take place downstairs, although I guess its now hauled over from the diner. Not sure that catered first class airline food wouldn't be better and store it downstairs.


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## Davids (Nov 26, 2015)

Ronbo said:


> Davids said:
> 
> 
> > I can confirm that ppc is in service on the train 14 I am on right now. However, there is no meal service and movie due to short staff. My SCA said amtrak is trying to get a ppc attendant in Sacramento hopefully the service is resumed in Sacramento.
> ...


 I am on 14 that departed today. Are you on 14 that departed yesterday?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 26, 2015)

Davids said:


> I can confirm that ppc is in service on the train 14 I am on right now. However, there is no meal service and movie due to short staff. My SCA said amtrak is trying to get a ppc attendant in Sacramento hopefully the service is resumed in Sacramento.


I would think you could order from the Diner (where the PPC Meals are now plated) and just haul it across yourself; hell, I'd even be kind enough to clean up my table and haul the trash and reusables back to the Diner


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 27, 2015)

SP&S said:


> Experience the PPC while you still can, and buy an overpriced drink too, they are quite old and one of these days they will be too expensive to keep in the consist.


 I tried to buy some drinks in the PPC but they only stocked two minis of JD at the start of the run. I wasn't surprised since I've run into similar stocking problems on other trains. You'd think Amtrak would stock hundreds of minis per trip since the markup can make plenty of money, but apparently you'd be wrong. It's kind of hard for a car like the PPC to break even if there's so little being stocked and so little effort to sell it. Why isn't Amtrak selling train related mementos and trinkets in the PPC and SSL? Why doesn't the PPC attendant come around and offer drinks and snacks at your seat? Heck why don't all train attendants do that? I don't expect Amtrak to break even but it sure seems like they could counteract more of the overhead with a stronger emphasis on stocking and selling goods that make sense on a train. Instead they keep further degrading the service and my desire to make use of it.


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## Durham57 (Nov 27, 2015)

What is a CCC car?


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## BCL (Nov 27, 2015)

I had to look it up.

http://www.amtrak.com/media/train_tour/crosscountrycafe/superlinerCCC_CONTROLLER.html

Here's a photo someone took of the interior:


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## pennyk (Nov 27, 2015)

Durham57 said:


> What is a CCC car?


Cross Country Cafe.


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## jersey42 (Dec 6, 2015)

Todays 14 has the Pacific Parlor Car.


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## TylerP42 (Dec 6, 2015)

is the theatre opened?


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 6, 2015)

jersey42 said:


> Todays 14 has the Pacific Parlor Car.



Is there some sort of note on any of the doors or windows?


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## jersey42 (Dec 6, 2015)

According to the PPC attendant, the PPC will be taken out of service in January for maintenance. Not sure what they are planning to do, but the time frame is 45 days.

The theater is closed. According to the PPC attendant and my SCA, it is because the windows do not meet current FRA requirements. i.e., they will not stop a bullet!


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 6, 2015)

I was worried about not having the PPC on my theoretical trip in early/mid-February but it sounds like you guys are saying that Amtrak will replace it with a normal lounge car so the sleeping car passengers will still have an exclusive lounge.


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## yarrow (Dec 7, 2015)

ain't no Metroliner said:


> I was worried about not having the PPC on my theoretical trip in early/mid-February but it sounds like you guys are saying that Amtrak will replace it with a normal lounge car so the sleeping car passengers will still have an exclusive lounge.


they didn't last winter when they took the ppc off for a couple months


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 7, 2015)

yarrow said:


> ain't no Metroliner said:
> 
> 
> > I was worried about not having the PPC on my theoretical trip in early/mid-February but it sounds like you guys are saying that Amtrak will replace it with a normal lounge car so the sleeping car passengers will still have an exclusive lounge.
> ...


Oh, that's bad news.


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## jersey42 (Dec 9, 2015)

Todays 11 has no parlour car, but they substituted an extra sightseer lounge. The attendant said he had the PPC yesterday going northbound, but when he got to the Seattle station this morning, he found out about the substitution. He also confirmed that all of parlour cars will be taken out of service in mid January for maintenance. He also understands it is scheduled for 45 days.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 9, 2015)

jersey42 said:


> . He also confirmed that all of parlour cars will be taken out of service in mid January for maintenance. He also understands it is scheduled for 45 days.


It would be nice if in addition to working on the Mechanics of the 5 cars they also freshen up the interiors.


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## jersey42 (Dec 9, 2015)

The attendant also said they are not substituting an SSL during the period the parlour car is gone. He already has a (hopefully temporary) position on another train.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 9, 2015)

jersey42 said:


> The attendant also said they are not substituting an SSL during the period the parlour car is gone. He already has a (hopefully temporary) position on another train.


:angry:


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 10, 2015)

Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time, but is it possible that Amtrak is removing these cars periodically because operating budgets are running short and they think it will reduce labor and fuel costs? I don't want to believe this but it's starting to look like the beginning of a trend.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 10, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Maybe I'm just being overly cynical, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time, but is it possible that Amtrak is removing these cars periodically because operating budgets are running short and they think it will reduce labor and fuel costs? I don't want to believe this but it's starting to look like the beginning of a trend.


The withdrawl of the PPC on the Starlight and the SSL on the Capitol Limited last winter was pretty much expressly for that purpose, particularly the Capitol. They used a maintenance excuse for the PPC last year, but my understanding is they didn't actually do much. Actions speak louder than words.

So I don't think you are being overly cynical and I do think you are right that it is a trend. I don't much like it, but it does make sense in the absolutely lowest season of the year. If some amenities get withdrawn during Jan-March to save money during the low time, well, so be it, as long as they aren't withdrawn entirely (or randomly).


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## jebr (Dec 10, 2015)

It seems as though, at least with the PPC, they're at least doing the annual inspections and that sort of thing to help keep them running the rest of the year (or lessen the down time the rest of the year.) That, to me, isn't terrible so long as it doesn't dramatically affect revenue.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 10, 2015)

And of course along with a Reduction in the Sleeping Car Fares to compensate for the missing Parlor Car!


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## aviva_dawn (Dec 11, 2015)

Will be on 14 on 12/17. Was so looking forward for my Mom to experience the Pacific Parlour Car for the first time, with me by her side.

Hopefully there will be a PPC on our consist.


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## aviva_dawn (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm on 14(17) and sitting in PDX right now. We have a lounge instead of a PPC, which isn't bad at all...Still missed the actual PPC, and I hope for its return in the Spring.


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## oregon pioneer (Dec 19, 2015)

aviva_dawn said:


> I'm on 14(17) and sitting in PDX right now. We have a lounge instead of a PPC, which isn't bad at all...Still missed the actual PPC, and I hope for its return in the Spring.


Some of them have the PPC right now (14(16) did, I arrived in Oregon yesterday with it), and some have the SSL. When they go away after the holidays, there will be no first-class lounge car on the train at all, until the PPCs come back in the spring.


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## tricia (Dec 19, 2015)

Anyone know when in the spring they'll return?


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## west point (Dec 19, 2015)

If they are replacing windows it may be that getting FRA 223 panes is being delayed due to it being a special order and not stock panes..


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 20, 2015)

west point said:


> If they are replacing windows it may be that getting FRA 223 panes is being delayed due to it being a special order and not stock panes..


Let's actually hope they are investing this much into the PPCs as that means they plan to keep them in fleet for a while; I recall a couple years ago a Fleet Report projected keeping them on through at least 2018.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 20, 2015)

Once the PPC is gone for Spring Break, does the mean the whole train will lack wi-fi? Or will there still be wi-fi?


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## Ryan (Dec 20, 2015)

The whole train has never had wifi. It was only available (and barely at that) from the PPC.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 20, 2015)

Ryan said:


> The whole train has never had wifi. It was only available (and barely at that) from the PPC.


Thanks.


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## oregon pioneer (Dec 21, 2015)

ain't no Metroliner said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > The whole train has never had wifi. It was only available (and barely at that) from the PPC.
> ...


They even unplug the modem in the PPC at night, and put it away in a cupboard. It continues to operate until the battery runs down, then it goes off. So if you get up in the morning before the attendant does, there won't be any wi-fi.

They can take the modem into an SSL, if one is substituted for a PPC. But if there is no first-class lounge on the train at all, I expect there is no wi-fi at all. It is always possible they could put a modem in the attendant's compartment of a sleeper-car (as they did on the SWC I was just on), but that would only be one car... I expect eventually they will do that on all LD sleeper cars (that's what my SWC attendant told me is the plan), but so far I've only seen it on the Chief. And of course, they operate off cell towers, so anywhere there is no cell service, there is no wi-fi (lots of that kind of terrain on the LD trains).


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 21, 2015)

I would hope people can survive if there is no Wifi access


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## Ryan (Dec 21, 2015)

Nobody saying it is a matter of survival. But it is a matter of 1) convenience, 2) getting the amenities advertised, and 3) saving money on cellular data bills.

Whilst I think that we will all survive, it would suck to be someone that was able to take the time off work to take the train predicated on being able to use the wifi to remain connected to the office and then not have a connection.


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## tricia (Dec 22, 2015)

tricia said:


> Anyone know when in the spring they'll return?


Called Amtrak this AM, and the agent I spoke with told me (after putting me on hold twice) that they (the folks at the Amtrak call center, at least) didn't know when the PPCs would be taken out of service, or when they'd come back.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 22, 2015)

tricia said:


> tricia said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know when in the spring they'll return?
> ...


The National Timetable says they'll be gone from mid-Jan to mid-March IIRC.


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## tricia (Dec 22, 2015)

ain't no Metroliner said:


> tricia said:
> 
> 
> > tricia said:
> ...


Thanks! I'm looking at the old paper timetable here, which of course doesn't have that info.


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## yarrow (Dec 22, 2015)

i couldn't see where it said the ppc would be gone from mid january to mid march. at least not in the cs timetable in the national schedule which takes effect next month. i remember last year that they seemed to be taken off just to save money during the low ridership months as many folks reported the cars were just stored. do we know for sure about the fra mandated reglazing or is that just a rumor?


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## jersey42 (Dec 22, 2015)

Earlier this month both the PPC attendant and my SCA said the cars would be out for 45 days beginning in mid January.

The PPC attendant said the glass was fine in the upper level. The lower level is currently closed because it does not have the FRA compliant glass. He did not believe they had the glass panels needed for the lower level and he strongly doubted the lower level panels would be replaced during the 45 day window. He also added that 45 days was the official word, but it might be longer. He just hoped that the cars would return.

Who knows how much inside information the crew actually had. To me it was just good speculation.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Dec 22, 2015)

yarrow said:


> i couldn't see where it said the ppc would be gone from mid january to mid march. at least not in the cs timetable in the national schedule which takes effect next month. i remember last year that they seemed to be taken off just to save money during the low ridership months as many folks reported the cars were just stored. do we know for sure about the fra mandated reglazing or is that just a rumor?


It's in the National Timetable that is currently in effect. Page 89. Since it went into effect back on April 6, 2015, I have assumed that the "mid-January though mid-March unavailability" is referring to 2016.


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## oregon pioneer (Dec 22, 2015)

jersey42 said:


> The lower level is currently closed because it does not have the FRA compliant glass.


I just rode the CS leaving LAX on 12/16, we had a PPC, and the lower level was most definitely NOT closed. They had a seasonal Disney movie playing. I went down there to check it out, but did not stay for the movie.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 22, 2015)

I wish the Kachina Coffee Shop of the El Capitan era would return to the Lower Level; no one ever goes down there for the movies.


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## jersey42 (Dec 23, 2015)

oregon pioneer said:


> jersey42 said:
> 
> 
> > The lower level is currently closed because it does not have the FRA compliant glass.
> ...


I guess this just shows the inconsistency in Amtrak, even on the same route. On Dec 6, the lower level was closed and the glass was given as the reason. Maybe some of the five parlour cars have been retrofitted with the compliant glass. Maybe one crew just did not want to bother opening the downstairs. Maybe one crew opened the lower level, when they were not supposed to. Perhaps, there was some other reason - or not. The lower level really does not matter to me, I just hope they bring back the back the cars after the shutdown.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Jan 6, 2016)

I just received the following email from Amtrak:

_Important Amtrak Alert (Reservation number xxxxxx)_

_We are contacting you today to inform you that starting January 6 through March 1, 2016, the Pacific Parlour car will be removed from the Coast Starlight trains for maintenance. During this period, the Dining car and Sightseer Lounge car will continue to be available for passengers._


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## andersone (Jan 6, 2016)

There must be a god, we aren't riding the CS until May,,,,


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## inspiration100 (Jan 6, 2016)

I expect more than a 1 day notice from Amtrak regarding this. I'm on the train leaving tomorrow and will report if they have a replacement. Who would I call to moan about this if they have no replacement? Amtrak or Amtrak guest rewards since it's an agr redemption?


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## yarrow (Jan 6, 2016)

i am on the cs leaving pdx on friday and will miss the advertised amenity of the ppc also. last year, amtrak did not substitute a ssl or ccc as a first class lounge. i doubt they will this year. last year there was little if any maintenance done to the cars. it was evidently a cost cutting move. same this year i would guess


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## SP&S (Jan 6, 2016)

Then I must be a sinner, I'm riding it in February. hboy: I just received that email too and it sounds as if there's no replacement car, such as a CCC. Just the usual SSL between coach and the diner. At least I'll be in on the train in a bedroom.


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## acelafan (Jan 6, 2016)

ain't no Metroliner said:


> I just received the following email from Amtrak:
> 
> _Important Amtrak Alert (Reservation number xxxxxx)_
> 
> _We are contacting you today to inform you that starting January 6 through March 1, 2016, the Pacific Parlour car will be removed from the Coast Starlight trains for maintenance. During this period, the Dining car and Sightseer Lounge car will continue to be available for passengers._


I'll be on the CS in a couple of weeks and I got the email, too. Bummer. Can't say I'm surprised.


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## rosewood (Jan 6, 2016)

We are traveling mid January on #11 and received email from Amtrak today regarding the Pacific Parlour car. It will be removed from Jan 6 through March 1,2016. The dining car and sightseer lounge car will continue to be available.

.


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## Lonestar648 (Jan 6, 2016)

#11 and #14 will operate just like the other western LD trains with crowded SSL forcing Sleeper and Coach passengers back to their cars. If the Consist is still 3 sleepers and 4 coaches, that is a lot of passengers for the two food/lounging cars.


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## TiBike (Jan 6, 2016)

I guess business class pax don't rate an email. I'm on the CS on Sunday and didn't get one. Was looking forward to the wine tasting. I guess that's not on?


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## ain't no Metroliner (Jan 7, 2016)

Even though I knew about this before I booked my February 2016 AGR trip on the CS, I still feel like I'm getting the shaft. Very disappointing.


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## yarrow (Jan 7, 2016)

the ppc is, of course, an advertised amenity for both sleeper and business class. we are getting the shaft and keep coming back for more. i'll probably call customer relations but won't hope for much from them. doubt they are even aware of this brilliant move their management is patting themselves on the back for


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## andersone (Jan 7, 2016)

I think temporary withdrawal isan apropos way to state it,,,, I love language


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## inspiration100 (Jan 7, 2016)

Just boarded the coast starlight. No replacement car, just the diner after the sleepers.


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## Ryan (Jan 7, 2016)

yarrow said:


> last year there was little if any maintenance done to the cars. it was evidently a cost cutting move. same this year i would guess


How exactly would you know what maintenance was done and what needed maintenance wasn't done?


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## Lonestar648 (Jan 7, 2016)

If the PPC needs maintenance, why can't they do two, then two more, sub in two SSL or if not available, 2 DC. Sounds like they take them all off, line the cars up, then work on the maintenance issues, car by car. A thought has just occurred that the parts have to be custom designed and manufactured, but wouldn't the Amtrak Maintenance Engineers know what they need and have the parts made before the cars come off regular service.


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## inspiration100 (Jan 7, 2016)

All the staff on board (multiple) have said it was removed due to budget and this is the lowest travel time of the season. No mention of repairs except in the email.


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## yarrow (Jan 7, 2016)

Ryan said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > last year there was little if any maintenance done to the cars. it was evidently a cost cutting move. same this year i would guess
> ...


on the "train orders" board it was reported by several railroaders and people with more than the usual access to amtrak goings on that the cars were just parked in la during the hiatus last year. these posters have proven to have had good information in the past so, until shown otherwise, i tend to go with what they report.


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## Ryan (Jan 7, 2016)

So what maintenance do these Internet Experts say was needed to be done and wasn't?


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## yarrow (Jan 7, 2016)

ryan, i think i may not have been clear. it is a long tradition among passenger railroads to reduce consists in the winter due to decreased passenger load. both this year and last amtrak has removed the ppc for a couple months in late winter. the explanation given by amtrak to travelers on the cs is that the cars were removed for maintenance which must be done by taking all of the cars out of service for a couple months. this does not seem to be the case based on the reports of quite a few, what i regard as generally reliable, sources. i would rather amtrak say that the ppc is taken out of service due to reduced passenger load in the late winter. i might not like it but it, unfortunately, seems reasonable. i do think , though, that some compensation should be given sleeper passengers who expect this amenity based on amtrak's advertising who reserved in good faith expecting it to be offered.

as far as "internet experts", as in any mode of information sharing one must "consider the source". i find the sources i have for the removal of the ppc to be good until shown otherwise


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## hmy1 (Jan 11, 2016)

Here are two of the cars parked in the LA yards as we passed by on Saturday...


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## Lonestar648 (Jan 11, 2016)

First, these do not look like they are receiving any maintenance work. Also, wonder where the other two are parked.


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## TylerP42 (Jan 11, 2016)

Lonestar648 said:


> First, these do not look like they are receiving any maintenance work. Also, wonder where the other two are parked.


The maintenence is on the inside, and the 2 other cars may be in the shops.


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## CCC1007 (Jan 11, 2016)

Aren't there five of them?


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## TylerP42 (Jan 11, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Aren't there five of them?


One had a fire and I haven't heard of where it's been since.


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## R30A (Jan 11, 2016)

As a trainorders reader myself, I got the opposite impression- Many of the posters are reliable only in the sense that they will reliably consider any action done by Amtrak to be directly sabotaging passenger rail, if not a crime against humanity.


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## yarrow (Jan 15, 2016)

just returned from a nice journey which included a pdx-lax rt on the cs sans parlour car. the train was nearly full(minus a coach and sleeper for the winter consist) and the ssl was always full. anyway, i called customer relations this morning and told the agent i had a good trip but wasn't happy at being notified a day and a half before departure about the loss of the ppc and about the lack of lounge space. i imagined he would commiserate with me and that would be it. instead, he gave me a $200 voucher. quite fair, i thought.


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## Thirdrail7 (Jan 17, 2016)

yarrow said:


> ryan, i think i may not have been clear. it is a long tradition among passenger railroads to reduce consists in the winter due to decreased passenger load. both this year and last amtrak has removed the ppc for a couple months in late winter. the explanation given by amtrak to travelers on the cs is that the cars were removed for maintenance which must be done by taking all of the cars out of service for a couple months. this does not seem to be the case based on the reports of quite a few, what i regard as generally reliable, sources. i would rather amtrak say that the ppc is taken out of service due to reduced passenger load in the late winter. i might not like it but it, unfortunately, seems reasonable. i do think , though, that some compensation should be given sleeper passengers who expect this amenity based on amtrak's advertising who reserved in good faith expecting it to be offered.
> 
> as far as "internet experts", as in any mode of information sharing one must "consider the source". i find the sources i have for the removal of the ppc to be good until shown otherwise


I just want to make sure I'm following this. If cars need maintenance (and there are certain tests that are federally required during the year), you think it is better to remove them little by little during the year (at which point they may not be available during a peak period) instead of blitzing them during the slowest time of the year,?

This may not be what you're saying, which is why I'm asking for clarification.

BTW, congratulations on your 200 voucher.


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## yarrow (Jan 17, 2016)

last year and currently are the only times, afaik, that all ppc have been taken out of service since they were introduced on the cs. so, imho, either amtrak has decided that the cars now need 2 months of work each year(which evidently they didn't need before last year)or amtrak is removing them as a cost saving measure. there have been numerous reports of the cars sitting in la during last years' hiatus and i have seen 2 of them sitting there this year. there have also been reports, of which i can add mine, that nothing looked to have been done to the cars during the break last year. very possible that 2 months work of internal work and inspection were done but nothing visible to amtrak pax.
it is fine with me if they remove the car during low ridership times to "save money"(though on my lax-pdx rt last week we had a nearly full train and a big lack of lounge space and much complaining from sleeper pax)but i doubt the honesty of amtrak management in their explanation for why the cars are gone.
i may be right, partially right or totally wrong. i have, as others have, gathered my evidence and come to my conclusion.


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## Thirdrail7 (Jan 17, 2016)

yarrow said:


> last year and currently are the only times, afaik, that all ppc have been taken out of service since they were introduced on the cs. so, imho, either amtrak has decided that the cars now need 2 months of work each year(which evidently they didn't need before last year)or amtrak is removing them as a cost saving measure. there have been numerous reports of the cars sitting in la during last years' hiatus and i have seen 2 of them sitting there this year. there have also been reports, of which i can add mine, that nothing looked to have been done to the cars during the break last year. very possible that 2 months work of internal work and inspection were done but nothing visible to amtrak pax.
> it is fine with me if they remove the car during low ridership times to "save money"(though on my lax-pdx rt last week we had a nearly full train and a big lack of lounge space and much complaining from sleeper pax)but i doubt the honesty of amtrak management in their explanation for why the cars are gone.
> i may be right, partially right or totally wrong. i have, as others have, gathered my evidence and come to my conclusion.



So, your sources know how to spot the work performed during a 92 day, 184 day, 1472 day brake inspection and C,O,T and S tests? They must have one heck of set of eyes. I wish I had them. Additionally, I'm sure you know about the glazing issues that have been raised over the last few years? Of course they are sitting in LA because that is their maintenance base.

However, this still doesn't answer my question: There are tests that need to be performed. Do you think performing the tests and maintenance during the year, necessitating some of their removal during peak season is better than benching them during the down time, blitzing them and thus allowing them to (hopefully) work uninterrupted during peak season (excluding another possible 92 day)?


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## SarahZ (Jan 17, 2016)

yarrow said:


> i have, as others have, gathered my *evidence* and come to my conclusion.


That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


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## ain't no Metroliner (Jan 17, 2016)

I have no idea what maintenance they are doing now on the cars, or if they are even really doing any maintenance on them. But it does seem at least a little bit fishy that not only are they taking all four of the cars out of service all at once for TWO whole months, they ALSO are not replacing them with other lounge cars to offer somewhat comparable service in the interim. Some part of this does sound like an unannounced cost-savings measure.


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## andersone (Jan 18, 2016)

spin the smoke and mirrors a little faster please


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## yarrow (Jan 18, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> yarrow said:
> 
> 
> > i have, as others have, gathered my *evidence* and come to my conclusion.
> ...


yeah, i know what the word means. we can and do, evidently, disagree on the issue. that's fine. i don't engage in personal attacks on this forum


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## Ryan (Jan 18, 2016)

Unless the person you're attacking is Amtrak management, then it's weapons free.


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## valkyrie (Jan 18, 2016)

Ryan said:


> Unless the person you're attacking is Amtrak management, then it's weapons free.


Expressing an opinion about Amtrak management is hardly a personal attack and I would think is fairly commonplace on this forum. I believe yarrow was referring to posts that ridicule another member, such as yours.


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## Ryan (Jan 18, 2016)

Yarrow has gone far beyond merely expressing opinion about Amtrak management.


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## jebr (Jan 18, 2016)

Enough with the sniping back and forth. Let's get back on track on the topic at hand, which is the removal of the PPC for maintenance.


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 9, 2016)

There is rumbling that more maintenance may occur this winter, which will bench part of the fleet.


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## CHamilton (Dec 9, 2016)

> October 20, 2016
> Beginning January 6, 2017 through mid-March 2017 (exact date to be determined), a time of lower ridership, the Pacific Parlour Car equipment operated on the Coast Starlight, trains 11/14, will be cycled through the shops for heavy maintenance. The Pacific Parlour Cars were originally ordered by the Santa Fe Railway in 1954 as lounge cars for the El Capitan coach streamliner that operated between Los Angeles and Chicago, so they are not exactly young, and they need attention from time to time.
> During this time the Pacific Parlour Cars will not be on the train, except for train 14 departing Los Angeles on Fridays, and train 11 departing Seattle on Sundays. There will be no substitute car on other days.
> The consist of the Coast Starlight will therefore be:
> ...



https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmtraksCoastStarlight/permalink/1342313609125810/


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 9, 2016)

Hey, that's still an improvement over no cars at all. Kudos to Amtrak, or Amtrak California, or whoever makes these decisions. The CS is my favorite Amtrak route and the PPC is my favorite Amtrak car (never ridden in the great dome) so this is good news for me.


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## tricia (Dec 9, 2016)

Not so good news for me, alas. I'll be traveling on the Coast Starlight in January....


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## sitzplatz17 (Dec 9, 2016)

While frustrating for anyone traveling during that time, i do think it's a positive thing that Amtrak seems to be intent on keeping PPC and doing the necessary maintenance on the cars.

While annoying, it's also necessary.

As someone who commutes on the DC Metro every day, i can tell you first hand what NOT doing preventative maintenance will eventually look like! :help:


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## tricia (Dec 9, 2016)

sitzplatz17 said:


> While frustrating for anyone traveling during that time, i do think it's a positive thing that Amtrak seems to be intent on keeping PPC and doing the necessary maintenance on the cars.
> 
> While annoying, it's also necessary.
> 
> As someone who commutes on the DC Metro every day, i can tell you first hand what NOT doing preventative maintenance will eventually look like! :help:


IIRC, after the PPCs were taken out of service for intensive "maintenance" last winter, there was some discussion on this forum about whether much work was actually done on them at all, or was "maintenance" a fig leaf for "save money by not running the PPCs in the slow season."

No way to know at this point what will happen during this winter's hiatus, but I'm skeptical. However, I generally tend to be skeptical about Amtrak's public statements, especially since the misleading AGR 2 rollout earlier this year.


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## Ryan (Dec 9, 2016)

I wouldn't take the comments of some uninvolved bystanders on an Internet forum as any indicator of what was or was not done.


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## TiBike (Dec 9, 2016)

I don't doubt that they will do some maintenance on the PPCs in January and February, but I don't believe that maintenance is the reason that they're being taken nearly completely out of service for two months. Are the cars in such bad shape that they need two months of intensive maintenance every year, in addition to the periodic maintenance that happens during the other ten months? Maybe I've just been unlucky, but the PPC was replaced by a lounge car on about half my CS trips this year.

Which is another point: when business is brisk, they do find the odd lounge car or two to fill in.

It makes sense from a business perspective to reduce headcount and other expenses during slack times – I wouldn't argue with that, even if I don't like it. I do object to being fed happy talk about why it's happening, though.


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## west point (Dec 9, 2016)

TiBike said:


> I don't doubt that they will do some maintenance on the PPCs in January and February, but I don't believe that maintenance is the reason that they're being taken nearly completely out of service for two months. Are the cars in such bad shape that they need two months of intensive maintenance every year, in addition to the periodic maintenance that happens during the other ten months? Maybe I've just been unlucky, but the PPC was replaced by a lounge car on about half my CS trips this year.


Well the other Santa Fe cars have not been able to get road worthy and still sit in illinois. Amtrak publishes in their monthly report that their car availability is ~ 90&. In that vein that would mean the PPCs would be out of service for ~ 5 weeks. However being one off cars the additional 3 weeks would seem very reasonable.


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## rtabern (Dec 10, 2016)

west point said:


> TiBike said:
> 
> 
> > I don't doubt that they will do some maintenance on the PPCs in January and February, but I don't believe that maintenance is the reason that they're being taken nearly completely out of service for two months. Are the cars in such bad shape that they need two months of intensive maintenance every year, in addition to the periodic maintenance that happens during the other ten months? Maybe I've just been unlucky, but the PPC was replaced by a lounge car on about half my CS trips this year.
> ...


Slight correction. Most of the Santa Fe cars are in Madison Illinois outside of STL. I walked through them in November 2015 including the sad 6th Parlour Car.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 10, 2016)

rtabern said:


> west point said:
> 
> 
> > TiBike said:
> ...


I believe some are also in Dallas, just across from the Fairgrounds; at least they were a few years ago.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 5, 2017)

h34r:


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## desertflyer (Mar 5, 2017)

Thirdrail7 said:


> h34r:


I'm fairly dense sometimes. Does this mean full Parlour service will return on March 15? Amtrak have been understandably vague about the PP middle of March return.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 5, 2017)

Who knows what it means. I don't even think he wants us to know so much as he wants us to know that _he_ knows. *shrug*


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## StriderGDM (Mar 5, 2017)

desertflyer said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > h34r:
> ...


I have no idea, but generally, one doesn't associate the Ides of March with GOOD stuff.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Mar 6, 2017)

My understanding was that the PPC's would return to service this week of March 6 from an email I received from Amtrak regarding my January trip. Since I don't have Coast Starlight travel plans again until June, I did not keep nor remember the exact date that was in the email for the return.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 6, 2017)

StriderGDM said:


> desertflyer said:
> 
> 
> > Thirdrail7 said:
> ...


Eventually someone will post one assumption too many and then Thirdrail will come back to say "Didn't you understand the intentionally cryptic attention seeking message I casually dumped on you previously?"


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## KnightRail (Mar 6, 2017)

desertflyer said:


> ...Does this mean full Parlour service will return on March 15?...


We have a winner!


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## KnightRail (Mar 6, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Eventually someone will post one assumption too many and then Thirdrail will come back to say "Didn't you understand the intentionally cryptic attention seeking message I casually dumped on you previously?"


The reason information is disseminated in such fashion has been previously explained. Regardless there will be no spoon feeding. There are two options. You can either get info from the FAKE NEWS rumor mill, or you can use your critical thinking skills, take the the clues give, solve the brain teaser, and find yourself with REAL NEWS. Do not bite the hand that feeds.


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## west point (Mar 6, 2017)

et tu Brutus ?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 7, 2017)

KnightRail said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > Eventually someone will post one assumption too many and then Thirdrail will come back to say "Didn't you understand the intentionally cryptic attention seeking message I casually dumped on you previously?"
> ...


**Like**


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2017)

KnightRail said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Eventually someone will post one assumption too many and then Thirdrail will come back to say "Didn't you understand the intentionally cryptic attention seeking message I casually dumped on you previously?"
> ...


So a riddle shoved into an enigma wrapped in nonsense is what passes for "real news" in your mind? If you have access to _real_ insider information, not this convoluted reconfirmation of already disseminated information, then by all means spill the beans and earn your gold stars and brownie points. If you have access to information but are not allowed to release it then maybe you should honor the wishes of your employer and avoid discussing it in public. Otherwise you're really no different than the attention-seeking kid who used to blurt out every random thing he heard while talking/listening to the staff.


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## KnightRail (Mar 7, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> So a riddle shoved into an enigma wrapped in nonsense is what passes for "real news" in your mind? If you have access to _real_ insider information, not this convoluted reconfirmation of already disseminated information, then by all means spill the beans and earn your gold stars and brownie points. If you have access to information but are not allowed to release it then maybe you should honor the wishes of your employer and avoid discussing it in public. Otherwise you're really no different than the attention-seeking kid who used to blurt out every random thing he heard while talking/listening to the staff.


If using your brain is asking to much, then don't play along. No soup for you!


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## keelhauled (Mar 7, 2017)

If given the choice between no information and coded information I will choose the latter every time. I rather enjoy the riddles and discussion anyway, what is a forum for if not talking? If I wanted it spelled out I'd wait for the press release.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 7, 2017)

keelhauled said:


> If given the choice between no information and coded information I will choose the latter every time. I rather enjoy the riddles and discussion anyway, what is a forum for if not talking? If I wanted it spelled out I'd wait for the press release.


^^ same for me ^^


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## Ryan (Mar 7, 2017)




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## PRR 60 (Mar 7, 2017)

I chose not to play. As everyone knows from a certain member's signature, I have no sense of humor.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 7, 2017)

PRR 60 said:


> I chose not to play. As everyone know from a certain member's signature, I have no sense of humor.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2017)

KnightRail said:


> If using your brain is asking to much, then don't play along. No soup for you!


Nobody actually deciphered TR's half-baked riddle. You simply edited the post you quoted to make it seem like someone had reached an educated conclusion as what you were rambling on about. Maybe if you put some actual effort into a _real_ brain teaser it would be worth the effort.



keelhauled said:


> If given the choice between no information and coded information I will choose the latter every time. I rather enjoy the riddles and discussion anyway, what is a forum for if not talking? If I wanted it spelled out I'd wait for the press release.


This information was already spelled out and spoon fed to us in a press release. Nothing new was disseminated in this latest charade from a self-flattering insider.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 7, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> > If using your brain is asking to much, then don't play along. No soup for you!
> ...


I think many of us knew what TR7 was saying, at least I did. Just because we didn't post doesn't mean we didn't know.I enjoy the way s/he informs us of upcoming happenings.

Reason for the riddles? Probably because s/he knows of plans that are in the works but also knows those plans may get pushed out by unanticipated happenings.


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## keelhauled (Mar 7, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> This information was already spelled out and spoon fed to us in a press release. Nothing new was disseminated in this latest charade from a self-flattering insider.


Was it? Perhaps you could have linked to it and saved us all this fuss, because all I see is a Facebook group post that said mid-March...a private Facebook post is hardly what I would call a press release, and given Amtrak's history of missing similar deadlines I don't know why anyone would take the date as gospel more than four months after it was posted.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 7, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I think many of us knew what TR7 was saying, at least I did. Just because we didn't post doesn't mean we didn't know.


In that case please walk me through the process of decoding "Beware the Ides of March" into "All's well on the Pacific Front."



keelhauled said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > This information was already spelled out and spoon fed to us in a press release.
> ...


Link: https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=am/AM_Snippet_C/IBRoutes&Route=Coast%20Starlight



> From January 6, 2017 to mid-March 2017, the Pacific Parlour Car will be available only on Friday departures from Los Angeles (Train 14) and on Sunday departures only from Seattle (Train 11).


Although it is not written in the affirmative I interpreted this statement to mean all available cars would be returning on or around mid-March. In other words, the exception proves the rule.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Mar 7, 2017)

Quite simply, the PPC's are expected to return to normal service ANY DAY NOW!


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## KnightRail (Mar 7, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> > If using your brain is asking to much, then don't play along. No soup for you!
> ...


Thanks for providing your _Alternative Facts_.

Timeline:

Press Release indicating the cars would return Mid-March, no specific date was given.

A post was made indicating that an important date would be the "Ides of March" in a thread about Parlour Car withdrawal. Fairly common knowledge to some people what that is probably from high school Literature. If that wasn't familiar to a reader taking five seconds to plug "Ides of March" into a search engine would reveal that is March 15. 'Bing' even gives a countdown of how many days till then as the top hit.

The post immediately following got it and asked "Does this mean full Parlour service will return on March 15?"

A post was made to affirmin this and stop any further unnecessary guessing or speculation.

Mixed in there were posts indirectly and directly labeling members as "attention seeking" and "self-flattering".

Instead of labeling people maybe you should get yourself a label maker. Printing labels would be much more productive then spreading hate.


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## ScouseAndy (Mar 8, 2017)

I saw Ides of march linked with PPC and immediately thought **** they are retiring them permanently from the 15th but then I've always linked bad news to the ides of March not good news


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## jis (Mar 8, 2017)

Maybe it is time for this entire Ides of March subthread to move over to Random Discussion?


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## PRR 60 (Mar 8, 2017)

KnightRail said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > KnightRail said:
> ...


The comment had nothing to do with whether some people "got it." The issue is the entertainment value, or lack of same, of using some unrelated reference as a means of communicating a fact rather than just stating the fact, and the reasons for doing that.. For those who think it is fun to present facts in the form of a puzzle that needs to be deciphered: good for them. For those would rather have simple facts presented as simple facts: join the club.


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## SanDiegan (Mar 9, 2017)

Just saw four PPC sitting at 8th Street yard on my way to work in L.A. this morning. Hope they are on trains by the time I'm on 14 a week from today !


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 9, 2017)

Sometimes certain members have to use a coding to put a message out. So that our jobs aren't at risk. Even me personally I have posted in code about certain items.


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## jis (Mar 9, 2017)

da dit da dit dit da da dit dit da da da dit dit da dit da da da da dit dit dit da?

Morse code OK?


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## PaulM (Mar 9, 2017)

I always thought "Ides of March" symbolized betrayal.


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## PVD (Mar 9, 2017)

Only because of the line "Beware the ides of March" in Shakespeare's Julius Caeser


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## jis (Mar 9, 2017)

Beware the Ides of March!


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## Ryan (Mar 9, 2017)

PRR 60 said:


> The comment had nothing to do with whether some people "got it."


Literally the first sentence of Chris' comment was about if some people "got it".

Despite your seeming personal opposition to it, I'm glad that you allow this forum continues to be different than the various other overly-serious overly-moderated forums on the planet. This place is unique in it's balance between levity and on-topic-ness (I'm pretty sure that's not a word), and I hope that it will continue on this path in the future.


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## chakk (Mar 9, 2017)

jis said:


> da dit da dit dit da da dit dit da da da dit dit da dit da da da da dit dit dit da?
> 
> Morse code OK?


Morse code is fine with me. Learned it from my father more than 60 years ago. He gave me a quarter as a performance reward when I could successfully receive and transmit 5 words per minute.

Spent many an evening transcribing 5-character strings transmited via shortwave to our basement radio receiver from the govt weather buoys he designed and tethered in the Gulf of Mexico for hurricane tracking at the ocean surface in the days before NOAA satellites


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 10, 2017)

Seaboard92 said:


> Sometimes certain members have to use a coding to put a message out. So that our jobs aren't at risk. Even me personally I have posted in code about certain items.


 What part of "The PPC is coming back as previously described." is a risk to anyone's job? You're just repeating what has already been disseminated through official channels. The only change was that mid-March was clarified to be March 15. Big whoop.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 10, 2017)

Wow.

Well, we may was well go back in time for a brief history.

As previously stated, it is tough to straddle the fence. Active railroaders are in a terrible position. They are usually trying to correct and/or provide accurate information without violating any potential code of conduct rules and/or compromising their identities.

That being said, you'll notice a lot of people with direct knowledge have vanished over time as it becomes a tight balancing act. This is particularly true since the previous regime made it clear that dissemination of information for certain sources would lead to dismissal.

However, people tend to want information and in a lot of ways I agree. So, how can information be presented without danger? Contrary to belief, I do not crave attention nor am I here to play the "I know something I won't tell game." I am aware of many things, but start very few threads. I am also aware that there are people that have absolutely no horse in the game and will not hesitate to post information from inside sources or documents. As such, one of my things is doing exactly what I did above and that is to drop a hint to nudge people in the right direction. A perfect example has occurred in this very thread.

It was a quite a simple statement:



> Posted 09 December 2016 - 12:34 AM
> 
> There is rumbling that more maintenance may occur this winter, which will bench part of the fleet.



The next post produced the "press release" that people keep referring to. Truthfully, I was well aware of the withdrawal. I knew it was being drawn up. However, something official came out...and it wasn't a press release.

That post regarding the removal is not a press release. It is a direct cut/paste from a post on the Amtrak internal intranet. Basically, it is not public information and doesn't really have business on Facebook. The only thing missing is a little information about the meals/attendant and the name of the person that issued the advisory. Now, I would never post something like that but clearly there are people that will (I've seen it many times) or have access to people that will. If there is something that I feel I can discuss without much of problem, I spit it out. Perhaps it is public knowledge. Perhaps it is something that is easily observed. Perhaps it is something that I can voice as an opinion. Examples of these actions exist in Runt Consist and the Capitol Limited - current consist? threads.

The passengers were understandably curious as to their consists and the answer may impact their trips. On a personal level, I think such information should be readily available because it is proper customer service. Some people are not interested in riding in a sleeper that is next to a diesel all night. Once the winter plan was published, it is not like it is a wise idea to just post the email detailing the changes (even though people have done it.) So, I waited until the changes were actually being made to nudge the people interested in the Capitol to take a harder look at their plans. Soon there after, AmtrakLK chimed in regarding the eastern trains even though I'd bet real money he or she new about it long before that.

Another example is the

There are times when I'm not comfortable stating something specific. When that occurs, I either say very little or nothing (an example being the LSL Michigan Reroute Rumors & Speculation thread) or I make what some people call a cryptic post. My intention is to alert interested parties that information or updates may be available so keep a watch. If I I'm able, I'll tell them to keep a watch on a specific area. Otherwise, interested parties can use their contacts or search other outlets (TO,RR.net,Facebook, Amtrak.com, Timetables, etc) for their information More time than not, the information appears and discussion ensues.



Devil's Advocate said:


> Seaboard92 said:
> 
> 
> > Sometimes certain members have to use a coding to put a message out. So that our jobs aren't at risk. Even me personally I have posted in code about certain items.
> ...


As indicated, it was not a press release. It is an internal document that was published...and not through official channels. If it has been released through official channels, I haven't noticed it and it isn't on this board. If someone wishes to do so, they can post an update.

People use this board for different reasons. Some are trying to find information for their trips. Others are interested in operations while others may be interested in specific equipment. Indeed, there are probably people that just sort of "hang."

As for the big whoop, I've never been on the car. However, the absence has resulted in this thread and there have been posts from people indicating they prefer this car. Therefore, I was trying to let people know that they should start looking for the return soon since things are lining up correctly and it hasn't been previously stated. After all, haven't things not gone according to publications before? How many times have the LDSL cars been pushed back? How many times did the return of the BOS-ALB sleeping car get pushed back?

At the end of the day, if someone thinks my posts seem to contribute little, make people uncomfortable or make it seem like I'm playing games, that is something each person has to decide for themselves. If someone thinks my posts are helpful, insightful, thought provoking or funny, again that is something that each person has to decide for themselves. I do note that the last time someone whined about my laughter, I did offer to stop dropping hints. While most people did not comment one way or the other, the ones that did seemed to be cool with my delivery. It seems the same has occurred in this thread.

If someone want to start a poll, knock yourself out.

I will admit that this Ides of March post didn't have the impact I intended. I do agree that it was a turd of hint and it isn't the first time  my attempts at humor have fallen flat :blink: . However, Babe Ruth didn't hit a home run every time he batted. ^_^

So, now that we've hijacked the thread, I'll get to the reason that I actually returned to the scene of the crime. Due to a slight change, I think this is an appropriate picture:

***ahem***







I hope people have a better understanding of my posts. Ummm, but in case it doesn't and there are still more complaints/comments coming from someone other than a moderator or administrator, allow me to make something crystal clear:






Carry on!


----------



## Bob Dylan (Mar 10, 2017)

Well said Thirdrail7!!!


----------



## ParanoidAndroid (Mar 10, 2017)

Thank you for rerailing the thread. I hope it returns soon.


----------



## railiner (Mar 12, 2017)

I can well appreciate the dilemma of being in a position on the inside, privy to information that friends are pressuring me to reveal....I too, used judgement on what I could reveal, and what I could not. Of course my true friends would respect that, and if I told them I could not reveal, they would let it go.

That was throughout my various career's in transportation, be it Greyhound, Trailways, BN, Amtrak, and American Airlines....

Of all those, AA was the most rigorous in enforcing their confidentiality policies, with frequent requirements to read and sign same...


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Mar 13, 2017)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Wow. Well, we may was well go back in time for a brief history. As previously stated, it is tough to straddle the fence. Active railroaders are in a terrible position. They are usually trying to correct and/or provide accurate information without violating any potential code of conduct rules and/or compromising their identities. That being said, you'll notice a lot of people with direct knowledge have vanished over time as it becomes a tight balancing act. This is particularly true since the previous regime made it clear that dissemination of information for certain sources would lead to dismissal. However, people tend to want information and in a lot of ways I agree. So, how can information be presented without danger? Contrary to belief, I do not crave attention nor am I here to play the "I know something I won't tell game." I am aware of many things, but start very few threads. I am also aware that there are people that have absolutely no horse in the game and will not hesitate to post information from inside sources or documents. As such, one of my things is doing exactly what I did above and that is to drop a hint to nudge people in the right direction. A perfect example has occurred in this very thread. It was a quite a simple statement: Posted 09 December 2016 - 12:34 AM There is rumbling that more maintenance may occur this winter, which will bench part of the fleet. The next post produced the "press release" that people keep referring to. Truthfully, I was well aware of the withdrawal. I knew it was being drawn up. However, something official came out...and it wasn't a press release. That post regarding the removal is not a press release. It is a direct cut/paste from a post on the Amtrak internal intranet. Basically, it is not public information and doesn't really have business on Facebook. The only thing missing is a little information about the meals/attendant and the name of the person that issued the advisory. Now, I would never post something like that but clearly there are people that will (I've seen it many times) or have access to people that will. If there is something that I feel I can discuss without much of problem, I spit it out. Perhaps it is public knowledge. Perhaps it is something that is easily observed. Perhaps it is something that I can voice as an opinion. Examples of these actions exist in Runt Consist and the Capitol Limited - current consist?threads. The passengers were understandably curious as to their consists and the answer may impact their trips. On a personal level, I think such information should be readily available because it is proper customer service. Some people are not interested in riding in a sleeper that is next to a diesel all night. Once the winter plan was published, it is not like it is a wise idea to just post the email detailing the changes (even though people have done it.) So, I waited until the changes were actually being made to nudge the people interested in the Capitol to take a harder look at their plans. Soon there after, AmtrakLK chimed in regarding the eastern trains even though I'd bet real money he or she new about it long before that. Another example is the There are times when I'm not comfortable stating something specific. When that occurs, I either say very little or nothing (an example being the LSL Michigan Reroute Rumors & Speculation thread) or I make what some people call a cryptic post. My intention is to alert interested parties that information or updates may be available so keep a watch. If I I'm able, I'll tell them to keep a watch on a specific area. Otherwise, interested parties can use their contacts or search other outlets (TO,RR.net,Facebook, Amtrak.com, Timetables, etc) for their information More time than not, the information appears and discussion ensues. As indicated, it was not a press release. It is an internal document that was published...and not through official channels. If it has been released through official channels, I haven't noticed it and it isn't on this board. If someone wishes to do so, they can post an update. People use this board for different reasons. Some are trying to find information for their trips. Others are interested in operations while others may be interested in specific equipment. Indeed, there are probably people that just sort of "hang." As for the big whoop, I've never been on the car. However, the absence has resulted in this thread and there have been posts from people indicating they prefer this car. Therefore, I was trying to let people know that they should start looking for the return soon since things are lining up correctly and it hasn't been previously stated. After all, haven't things not gone according to publications before? How many times have the LDSL cars been pushed back? How many times did the return of the BOS-ALB sleeping car get pushed back? At the end of the day, if someone thinks my posts seem to contribute little, make people uncomfortable or make it seem like I'm playing games, that is something each person has to decide for themselves. If someone thinks my posts are helpful, insightful, thought provoking or funny, again that is something that each person has to decide for themselves. I do note that the last time someone whined about my laughter, I did offer to stop dropping hints. While most people did not comment one way or the other, the ones that did seemed to be cool with my delivery. It seems the same has occurred in this thread. If someone want to start a poll, knock yourself out. I will admit that this Ides of March post didn't have the impact I intended. I do agree that it was a turd of hint and it isn't the first time my attempts at humor have fallen flat[/url] However, Babe Ruth didn't hit a home run every time he batted. So, now that we've hijacked the thread, I'll get to the reason that I actually returned to the scene of the crime. Due to a slight change, I think this is an appropriate picture:***ahem*** I hope people have a better understanding of my posts. Ummm, but in case it doesn't and there are still more complaints/comments coming from someone other than a moderator or administrator, allow me to make something crystal clear


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## TiBike (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm on 11 now, leaving Salinas. No PPC, no SSL substitute. BC attendant says "next week".


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## chakk (Mar 19, 2017)

14(18) has a PPC in the consist today. Photographed at Albany, OR.


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## chakk (Mar 19, 2017)

#11 has a PPC today also. Business coach passengers are only allowed in the PPC during the wine & cheese tasting.


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## AmtrakLKL (Dec 5, 2017)

The annual PPC hiatus is coming. No PPCs January 8, 2018 to mid-March except northbound Thursdays/Fridays and southbound Saturdays/Sundays.


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## CHamilton (Dec 5, 2017)

AmtrakLKL said:


> The annual PPC hiatus is coming. No PPCs January 8, 2018 to mid-March except northbound Thursdays/Fridays and southbound Saturdays/Sundays.


Posted on the Facebook Coast Starlight group:



> Pacific Parlour Car WINTER SCHEDULE
> 
> December 4, 2017
> 
> ...


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## west point (Dec 5, 2017)

Cannot be sure but appears Amtrak is going to do some level 2 overhauls this winter for at least 2 PPC and maybe 4 ? That should give them another 4 years before another overhaul ? With 2 PPCs staying in LAX it may be BEE is space limited for overhaul of passenger cars due to having to overhaul other equipment during the winter slack season especially the V-1s ?

Off topic ---If Amtrak keeps increasing its fleet size there may be requirements for additional overhaul space being constructed at Bear, Wilmington, & Beech to maintain a larger fleet ?


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 5, 2017)

They are increasing their fleet size?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Dec 5, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> They are increasing their fleet size?


The Siemens California/Illinois car order as well as the Viewliner sleepers and baggage-dorms will all be primarily supplementing existing equipment rather than replacing it. However, I am unsure whether or not that is enough to require additional facilities.
Sent from my SM-J327P using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## A Voice (Dec 5, 2017)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > They are increasing their fleet size?
> ...





brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > They are increasing their fleet size?
> ...


Not really, at least not over the long term. None of the 130 new Viewliners represent meaningful fleet expansion. Most simply replace a similar number of Heritage baggage and dining cars. Fifty Viewliner sleepers replaced what had once been over 100 Heritage cars some two decades ago; The new arrivals will just get us back to 75. Heritage dorms were retired without direct replacement, and ten new cars will hardly constitute an expanded fleet.

The Horizon cars released by the new Siemens equipment can provide a (badly) needed supplement to single-level cars (but _where on Earth_ are people getting the idea delivery of these - from an open production line - will take_ five or six years_?!?), but again, it is token expansion at best (arguably, it just _finally_ replaces equipment long out of service, such as scrapped Turboliners and wreck-repair Amfleet cars).


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## west point (Dec 6, 2017)

Facilities at BEE have been listed on MPRs as to being limited and not available. Certain car work has been shown to be postponed due to a spot not available at BEE.


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## FreeskierInVT (Dec 12, 2017)

I suppose I'm lucky, I have a trip planned on the Starlight from Portland to Sacramento on one of the Saturdays in January. Hoping there is in fact a PPC since I booked a sleeper specifically for the car.


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 12, 2017)

Let’s face it, with all the drinking in the ppc, it is going to have to go through withdrawals.


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## CAMISSY55 (Dec 12, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Lets face it, with all the drinking in the ppc, it is going to have to go through withdrawals.


I hear you there. On my trip on the #11 in early October, the PPC on the Saturday night I was aboard was hopping like a neighborhood pub. Lots of fun! And nobody had to worry about "friends driving drunk." 

And it closed earlier!


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## GiantsFan (Dec 22, 2017)

Whew!! Lucked out on the timing of my upcoming trip. Traveling on the coast starlight in between christmas and new years ... glad Ill still have the PPC!


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## GiantsFan (Dec 25, 2017)

Well, just boarded train 14 and it looks like they removed the PPC early.... theres an east coast diner/lounge in its place


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## Anderson (Dec 26, 2017)

It's just as likely (possibly even more probable) that it was bad-ordered.


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## GiantsFan (Dec 26, 2017)

Anderson said:


> It's just as likely (possibly even more probable) that it was bad-ordered.


The dining car attendant claimed the PPC was gone for the season, but I (and also my car attendant) think youre right.


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## trainfanmom (Dec 27, 2017)

GiantsFan said:


> Well, just boarded train 14 and it looks like they removed the PPC early.... theres an east coast diner/lounge in its place


Hum, I wonder if that means we will have the same replacement on Friday. We will be OK as long as there is a lounge of some sort in place of the PPC (as I'm assuming these trains are pretty packed right now). We have been lucky to have the PPC on every trip so far so I wouldn't be surprised if our luck finally ran out, LOL. I'm just going to be really bummed if we don't have a PPC or a replacement as that roomette shared with my son will get really small, really fast


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## daybeers (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm not sure when Amtrak posted this, but I usually check the alerts page fairly often so I believe this was recent: https://www.amtrak.com/alert/pacific-parlour-car-temporarily-removed.html



> Pacific Parlour car has been removed from the Coast Starlight for maintenance. This change will be in effect beginning Monday, Jan. 8 through Wednesday, March 14, 2018.
> 
> The Pacific Parlour car will remain on Train 14, departing Los Angeles on Thursdays and Fridays and Train 11, departing Seattle on Saturdays and Sundays. The Dining car and Sightseer Lounge car will continue to be available for passengers on all trains.
> 
> This work will allow Amtrak’s Mechanical team to perform maintenance on each car to increase its reliability during the peak travel periods. Each car has been evaluated for specific items that need to be addressed to increase the customers’ enjoyment of the cars when they return in March.


Has the PPC only been gone since January 8th, or before that?


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## Thirdrail7 (Jan 16, 2018)

daybeers said:


> I'm not sure when Amtrak posted this, but I usually check the alerts page fairly often so I believe this was recent: https://www.amtrak.com/alert/pacific-parlour-car-temporarily-removed.html
> 
> Has the PPC only been gone since January 8th, or before that?








I was just talking about this song in the chat room. I'd keep an eye on the website for updates but in case you missed them, here:


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