# Seeing the US via the 2 zone loophole (Part 4)



## the_traveler (Oct 20, 2008)

I'll start the trip report of my 2 zone loophole trip from the end. This way, it can only get better!  (Besides, I also want to send this to Amtrak customer service.) (Pictures to follow when I get to them.)

CHI-CVS	10/16/08 #50

Train #50 consisted of a P-42 (#44), 3 coaches (#25065, #25046 and #25021) diner/lounge #28020 and Viewliner #62020 (the Moonlight View). “Train” #850 was on the back of the train and consisted of coach #54531.

Departure from CHI was on time, but very shortly after departure we stopped, and we were late ever since. By LAF, we were 37 minutes late.

About 3 PM (IIRC) just west of Thurmond, WV, we held on a siding for a freight to pass. Then we sat … and sat … and sat … and … - and finally learned that there was a freight derailment up ahead, and that we needed to be bused around it. So we sat … and sat … and sat … and … for a bus. Oh, there were no convenient roads where #50 stopped. The crew allowed us to get off the train to walk around and stretch our legs. (But we had to stay near the train.)

The OBS staff learned what was happening not from the train crew – but from a passenger who had a scanner! 

A few (many!) hours later, we started moving again. We did move many miles (at a high rate of speed), but then we pulled into a siding at a CSX freight yard to wait for the buses. And we waited … and waited … and waited … and … - until they finally came! Then we were allowed off the train to board the buses.

I was connecting at CVS to go to BHM, but due to time constraints my traveling companion had to return to KIN and would connect from #50 in WAS. The bus situation was so poorly disorganized that we were instructed that if we were going to CVS to board bus #1 and if we were going to WAS to board bus #2. So we boarded different buses. However, it turned out that *BOTH BUSES WENT TO CVS ALONE*! (I only found this out on the way by a cell phone call from my traveling companion.)

Train #51 was turned at CVS and became #50 and our train #50 was turned to become #51. Thus, at CVS, they would board #50 to continue their journey north.

Upon my departure from the freight yard, our driver received a call from his dispatcher that we must return back to the train. There was one passenger aboard #50 in a wheelchair, and our bus was the only one sent equipped with a wheelchair lift! I would not have any problem with this request – except for the fact that *WE WERE OVER 50 MINUTES AWAY FROM THE TRAIN*!

So we had to turn around at the next (interstate) exit, drive back 50 minutes to the train, pick up the passenger, then drive back another 50 minutes – just to return to the same spot! By the time we reached this spot, it was well over 2 ½ hours later! During this time, there was *NO* food or water provided to the passengers!

A mother with 2 small children on the bus was very upset with this fact. She mentioned that aboard #50 that they ran out of food! I can not confirm this (as I was in a roomette), but once during the (*LONG*) wait, I went to use the rest room in the coaches, and the conductor had to unlock the door for me between the café and the coaches. Upon my return, the door was again locked!

If #50 “ran out of food”, and they turned the train to become #51 back to CHI, does that mean there was no food all the way to CHI on #51?

Upon the return to the train, to allow the wheelchair passenger to get off the train, #50 pulled into the Prince, WV station. This allowed them to use the station’s wheelchair lift and to allow him to exit via the station’s platform. I applaud this choice, but what I do not understand is why other passengers were not given this option also. *THE PRINCE STATION IS LOCATED LESS THAN 1 MILE BEFORE THE FREIGHT YARD*! It would seem to me that it would be easier (and safer) for all passengers to disembark on a flat station platform instead of on the uneven terrain of a freight yard – especially the elderly, children and handicapped passengers!

Because they wyed the locomotive in the freight yard, (the original) #50 pulled into the Prince station with the locomotive leading.

On the bus ride to CVS, the driver finally did stop for “food and drinks” – but at an interstate rest area! And not until well after midnight! And all they had were vending machines with cans of soda and things like chips and candy! (On the bus my companion rode, I was informed they did not stop at all!)

My traveling companion informed me that during the wait for all the buses to arrive, because there were so many people waiting in the (small) waiting room at CVS that they were “_allowed_” to wait on the train. However, at *NO* time during the many hours wait was food or water provided! I find that the station personnel and/or emergency staff found it impossible to plan for food or water – especially since there is a restaurant within a few hundred feet (*IN FACT IN THE SAME PARKING LOT*) of the CVS station! And they knew the large number of passengers on #50!

My arrival into CVS was “on time” at 2:47. However, it was 2:47 *AM* not 2:47 *PM*!

Upon my arrival into CVS since I was to connect to #19 to go to BHM, I inquired to the station ticket agent what would be done for me (since it was a guaranteed connection and #19 departed many hours prior). I assumed that I would be provided a room in CVS. Instead, I was instructed to re-board #50 to go to WAS where they will provide me a room and send me out on the next #19.

The ticket agent then said, “Since I had a sleeper, I’ll provide you a sleeper to WAS. Let’s see if any are available.” (*HUH* :huh: I was in a sleeper!) She then said, “Come on down (to the sleeper)!” Prior to CVS, I was in Roomette #1, but after CVS I was in roomette #5?

This request to go to WAS did not make any sense, since it would require me to go CVS-WAS on #50 and then WAS-(thru CVS)-BHM on #19!

Upon my arrival in WAS (at about 6 AM by the way), there was no one from Amtrak to meet the train. And due to the early hour, there were no Amtrak employees at the Amtrak Information desk, so I went up to the Amtrak ticket windows for assistance.

The agent who helped me was surprised when I informed her of the late arrival of #50. When I inquired about getting on #19 that night, she informed me that there were no rooms – only coach! (BTW – The agent in CVS never even checked.) Because I did not want to spend the necessary AGR points for a roomette award to go coach, I chose to cut my vacation short and return to KIN. (BTW – I was *NEVER* at any time offered a room!)

The agent then had to get an OK from her manager, and gave me a “Conductor’s Carry Authorization” to allow me to board train #164 to KIN. However, it was for *COACH ONLY* (normally a roomette AGR award allows you to ride BC where offered) and it was only for *1 PASSENGER ONLY* (even though the AGR award was for 2 passengers)! Thus I had to use 3,000 additional AGR points to obtain a ticket for my traveling companion.

Because I had a sleeper arriving into WAS, I was allowed use of the Club Acela. There I had my first “meal” of pastry and coffee since lunch the previous day. (None of the other shops in WAS were open yet.)

WAS-KIN	10/18/08 #164

The trip on #164 was uneventful (thankfully)! Both departure and arrival were on time at 9:25 AM and 4:11 PM. Prior to my batteries dying on my GPS, I recorded a speed somewhere between WAS and PHL of 124 MPH!

http://picasaweb.google.com/railfan51/CHICVSKIN#


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## Steve4031 (Oct 23, 2008)

Where are parts 1 to 3 I would like to see the rest of your trip.


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## the_traveler (Oct 23, 2008)

I'll post Parts 1-3 (and photos) after I recover so more, and plan for my next cross-country trip for February!  (As bad as #50 was, it won't keep me off Amtrak for long! :lol: )

I promise I'll post them in the next few weeks.


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## GG-1 (Oct 23, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> I'll post Parts 1-3 (and photos) after I recover so more, and plan for my next cross-country trip for February!  (As bad as #50 was, it won't keep me off Amtrak for long! :lol: )
> I promise I'll post them in the next few weeks.


Aloha

And I promise to clean up a good one of you in the San Diego Station, The big window tricked the exposure meter, but not too bad it can't be fixed.

I think there are now 75 good pictures with about half captioned in my photo gallery now.

Mahalo

Eric


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## the_traveler (Oct 23, 2008)

GG-1 said:


> And I promise to clean up *a good one of you* in the San Diego Station, The big window tricked the exposure meter, *but not too bad it can't be fixed*.


Mahalo, Eric - but even Photoshop can't perform *THAT* miracle! :lol:


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## GG-1 (Oct 24, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> GG-1 said:
> 
> 
> > And I promise to clean up *a good one of you* in the San Diego Station, The big window tricked the exposure meter, *but not too bad it can't be fixed*.
> ...


Aloha

Well Photoshop got it good enough to see and read your shirt. It says what most of us feel about trains and Amtrak.







Mahalo for being there with the rest of us.


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## the_traveler (Oct 27, 2008)

As promised, I have added photos to Post #1. And am (slowly) posting Parts 1-3.


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## access bob (Oct 29, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> I'll start the trip report of my 2 zone loophole trip from the end. This way, it can only get better!  (Besides, I also want to send this to Amtrak customer service.) (Pictures to follow when I get to them.)
> CHI-CVS	10/16/08 #50
> 
> Train #50 consisted of a P-42 (#44), 3 coaches (#25065, #25046 and #25021) diner/lounge #28020 and Viewliner #62020 (the Moonlight View). “Train” #850 was on the back of the train and consisted of coach #54531.
> ...



ADDENDUM

I was also on that train, in fact I was the guy in the wheelchair.

The Traveler is definately time challenged. my camera time stamps all my photos so since I took many photos I can pretty accurately put times on this "death march" ok maybe not quite that bad,

also since I was in a sleeper I can hopefully fill in a few blanks, (I was the passenger with the scanner passing the info off to my attendant)

. photo of passengers for Thurmond getting out in VW van was at 10:59AM

. we got rolling again at 3:32PM

. arrived at the Prince yard 4:23 PM

. I was still onboard #50 "ALONE" at 7:50PM

. I boarded the bus finally at 9:27PM

. the rest stop on the interstate occured at 11:55PM

was too tired at Charlottesville and just crashed in the seat in my room, didn't even fold it down.

. Arrived in Baltimore at 7:35AM almost exactly 13 hours late.

some other tidbits.

the diner was indeed almost out of food, they were down to a bag of rolls when the buses arrived. Think that was left aboard for #51 but they hadn't served dinner although a regular lunch was served.

the bus situation could be best described as "three stooges meet the Keystone kops" in fact that is what I told Alex Kummant in the letter I wrote to Amtrak.

there is no excuse for the bus having to be turned around and sent back, they knew I was on board and needed the lift from the get go, (remember I had the scanner) in fact they should have sent buses for us from somewhere a lot closer than Richmond, which is where the buses came from. I looked up James River bus on the Internet, they have a nice website.

when I finally got aboard that bus the woman with 2 children was still having food problems and I gave her a bag of trail mix I had along for the kids, so that was the only food they had.

I was offered Breakfast as we left DC the next morning, so from lunch on the 17th to breakfast on the 18th about 20 hours there was no food of any kind avaliable. not sure what the people on #51 did with that bag of rolls.

what I don't understand is why they swapped us out at Prince when the derailment was at Clifton Forge, why not run us up to say Whiite Sulpher springs.

as a side story there was a woman and her 4 kids on board #50 that were going to Clifton Forge and coming back on #51 as a treat for her kids, it was their first (and probably last) train trip, they stayed aboard and just returned on #51. they had a bedroom for the 5 of them and were going to switch off on the return trip. the littlest one thought that the bag compartment above the aisle in the bedroom made a great bed....

and that bus ride reminded me of why I ride the train that is for sure. however meeting the Traveler over dinner the previous night was a highlight of that segment. But it also points out one of the major problems of being a wheelchair user on Amtrak. The Traveler and I were on the Same #8 from Seattle to Chicago and didn't meet until dinner when for the first time in 37 years Amtrak had the Viewliner "H" bedroom adjacent to the dinning end of the diner and that dinner where I met Traveler was the very first time ever in my life that I actually had dinner in the diner. and it was everything that it is cracked up to be. steak was good too.

Bob


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## AlanB (Oct 30, 2008)

access bob said:


> there is no excuse for the bus having to be turned around and sent back, they knew I was on board and needed the lift from the get go, (remember I had the scanner)


Agreed. That is inexcusable. :angry: Simply no reason for that, even with the chaos that I'm sure was ongoing with the situation. The buses should not have been allowed to leave until the crew was certain that all passengers had safely exited the train and boarded a bus.



access bob said:


> in fact they should have sent buses for us from somewhere a lot closer than Richmond, which is where the buses came from. I looked up James River bus on the Internet, they have a nice website.


James River may have been the only company that not only had buses available, but also had drivers who had their legal rest satisfied. Just because there is a closer bus company, doesn't mean that they have buses serviced and ready to go that aren't already needed for other services and charters. And then, you have to find drivers who are legally rested and willing to go to work. Amtrak can't just push a button and have buses show up.



access bob said:


> when I finally got aboard that bus the woman with 2 children was still having food problems and I gave her a bag of trail mix I had along for the kids, so that was the only food they had.
> I was offered Breakfast as we left DC the next morning, so from lunch on the 17th to breakfast on the 18th about 20 hours there was no food of any kind avaliable. not sure what the people on #51 did with that bag of rolls.


Here again I don't understand why Amtrak couldn't have found some deli or Kentucky Fried Chicken to provide some meal for dinner on the bus. When I was bussed two summers ago between ABQ and Gallup, I missed out on dinner on the train. But Amtrak did at least provide everyone, both coach and sleeper pax, with a boxed meal containing sandwich, chips, brownie (IIRC), and something to drink.



access bob said:


> what I don't understand is why they swapped us out at Prince when the derailment was at Clifton Forge, why not run us up to say Whiite Sulpher springs.


Perhaps because CSX wouldn't let them do it. Maybe CSX already had another freight train trapped in that area by the derailment. Remember that Amtrak doesn't get the final decision on where to stop the train. They can plead, argue, and/or cajole to try to get what they want; but the ultimate decision is CSX's.


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## access bob (Oct 30, 2008)

AlanB said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > there is no excuse for the bus having to be turned around and sent back, they knew I was on board and needed the lift from the get go, (remember I had the scanner)
> ...



Yes I understand about getting buses, but what they did was use one batcth of buses, they got the James river buses (this in #50 not #8, they only needed 5 buses) and had them bring the people from #51 down, then turn and take us back. penny wise pound foolish. if they couldn't find 5 buses within 200 miles within 10 hours they weren't trying.

right no excuse not to feed the passengers, by late afternoon the diner had pretty much given away whatever they had left, and I do mean given away they didn't charge for anything after about 3 or so when we got to Prince.

oh I know it was CSX I had the scanner, but CSX wasn't stopping their freights, several went by Eastbound while we sat in the yard track, they wouldn't even let #50/51 back into the Prince station. if it wasn't because I couldn't get off the train where it was positioned and forced the issue they may have made the folks from #51 board in the yard too.

CSX had the derailment, so it was thier fault (in a sense) but they did absolutely nothing to assist Amtrak and in many ways actively tharwted Amtrak. I think the only reason that we moved from Thurmond up to Prince was that we were blocking the main line where we were sitting in Thurmond.

But Amtrak didn't help the situation. they knew by a little after noon that the train wasn't going to be able to proceed. there is no excuse for the bumbling and incompenent actions of the "supervisors" that were sent down to get this mess untangled, and I know Amtrak has to have an emergency action plan for when things like this happen, maybe because it was a fri afternoon and everyone wanted to go home??? that we maybe got the third string, but there were enough "Amtrak" official cars and trucks on the scene and they had someone from amtrak with a radio on each bus so they weren't lacking troops, they were lacking leadership.

I think maybe besides a letter to Amtrak maybe one to CSX might be in order.

Bob


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## the_traveler (Oct 30, 2008)

To his credit, on the return trip to the train to get Bob, our bus driver did offer to stop and let the woman (and other passengers) get some food. *BUT* there were conditions with us stopping! The only thing open that late were things like convenience stores inside gas stations (remember Beckley, WV is not like NYC - things close early) and those who get off must stay there until the bus returns (which may have been an hour!) - and of course those places don't have seats for 20-40 people!

The train's conductor rode on this bus also. And he agreed to these conditions! 

Yes, I agree that there is no reason that they could not have brought something like KFC or Subway boxes for the passengers on the buses. What really does not make sense is what they did in CVS.

Although our bus did not arrive until later, my traveling companion's bus was in CVS 1-2 hours before us. They _allowed_ the passengers to wait on the train (mainly to get them out of the station's waiting room) - but they did not provide any food or water!  They did not even open the snack car! 

This is totally inexcusable - especially since there is a restaurant next to (*AND IN THE SAME PARKING LOT*) - as CVS!


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