# New Greyhound Station in Seattle



## rickycourtney

A new Greyhound station is starting to take shape here in Seattle.
It's located on S Royal Brougham Way near 6th Ave S... in a little sliver of land next to a giant parking structure for King County Metro. But the location isn't bad, it's in a part of town that is being redeveloped and it's right next to the Link Light Rail Stadium station and the SODO busway and an easy walk to Safeco Field and CenturyLink Field. There is a small loading zone and handicapped parking spot in front of the station, across the street there is a larger parking lot with a cab stand. But perhaps most importantly for Greyhound there is easy access to both I-90 and I-5.

According to some newspaper articles on the internet, Greyhound was in a time crunch to get out of their 85 year old Stewart Street building (that's going to be replaced by a 43-story high-rise) so they opted for a modular building.

The building appears to have 2 or 3 doors to serve as boarding gates and the boarding area appears to have 4 berths. Very small for a city of Seattle's size but I assume that like the current station, no buses will be maintained or stored at this location.


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## third rail 1200

Can you post a photo of the old one?


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## fairviewroad

Ah, the romance of bus travel. This looks especially bad given the newly renovated Amtrak station in SEA.

That said, Boltbus seems to do okay in SEA with no station at all, so I suppose a roof over your head is an

upgrade over that.


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## rickycourtney

third rail 1200 said:


> Can you post a photo of the old one?


Personally, I can't because I haven't taken any good ones. But the Seattle PI has some nice pictures of the station (old, new and what will replace it in the future).

The Seattle Greyhound station was formally a railroad station and in its heyday it was a nice looking place (brick walls and wooden benches) but somewhere along the way it was "modernized" and the brick walls were covered up and the wooden benches replaced by metal benches. Changes like that made it ineligible for historic status.

If you saw the area, you'd understand why this station is going away... It's the shortest building in a neighborhood of high-rises. The real estate is probably worth a fortune.



fairviewroad said:


> Ah, the romance of bus travel. This looks especially bad given the newly renovated Amtrak station in SEA.


Unlike the old Greyhound station... there is certainly no romance to this one. It's very utilitarian and located in the shadow of several freeway off ramps. I also feel like the design is nice and modern now, it'll feel very dated in 10 years (which is also my biggest complaint about Amtrak stations from the 70's).

But that being said... there's a lot going for this new location. The old location was 5 blocks away from Westlake station (Convention Place is closer but has no Link Light Rail service and will also be demolished soon.) This location is just steps away from the Stadium station and the SODO busway. That should make it really easy for people to make connections to other cities in the region.



fairviewroad said:


> That said, Boltbus seems to do okay in SEA with no station at all, so I suppose a roof over your head is an
> 
> upgrade over that.


In San Francisco and Las Vegas, BoltBus service runs out of the Greyhound station. I could see that possibly happening here. As you said, it would put a roof over passengers heads in a town known for rain.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Spending money on fancy stations is about the worst thing Greyhound can do. Focus on the bus, not the station. You only spend 30 minutes in the station anyway. As long as they go through with the G4500 rebuilds, there's no way I'm riding Amtrak again after the debacle with the San Joaquin.


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## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Spending money on fancy stations is about the worst thing Greyhound can do. Focus on the bus, not the station. You only spend 30 minutes in the station anyway.


Agreed. I think one of the most important things for any station (be it Greyhound or Amtrak) is that it is close to connecting transportation. This area has plenty of bus routes (including regional routes), connection with light rail to downtown and the airport and there's a Hertz office across the street. Doesn't get much better than that.


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## fairviewroad

Swadian Hardcore said:


> You only spend 30 minutes in the station anyway.


That's probably true for most travelers these days, now that Greyhound has de-emphasized long-haul bus travel.

I can remember long-haul trips on Greyhound when I was younger that had 5-6 hour layovers in connecting cities

(which I will grant you does not describe Seattle, for the most part). Thank goodness for all-night diners next to

Greyhound stations, which themselves typically offered nothing more than vending machine fare.


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## Green Maned Lion

I would love to see Megabus Gold over here.


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## Swadian Hardcore

fairviewroad said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You only spend 30 minutes in the station anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably true for most travelers these days, now that Greyhound has de-emphasized long-haul bus travel.
> 
> I can remember long-haul trips on Greyhound when I was younger that had 5-6 hour layovers in connecting cities
> 
> (which I will grant you does not describe Seattle, for the most part). Thank goodness for all-night diners next to
> 
> Greyhound stations, which themselves typically offered nothing more than vending machine fare.
Click to expand...

You could not be more wrong on that, Greyhound is re-focusing on long-distance trips again, precisely to compete against LD car-trippers. Greyhound has reintroduced many long-distance routes, like New York-Miami, New York-Atlanta, Chicago-Dallas, Amarillo-San Antonio, etc.

The different is that Greyhound no longer does 5-6 hour layovers, most layovers now are 30-60 minutes. For example, if travelling from Portland to Vancouver, the layover is Seattle is only 30 minutes, so a fancy station would be useless. If you're riding from Denver to San Francisco, the layover at Reno is 45 minutes. Of course they will usually hold the bus if the previous one is late.



Green Maned Lion said:


> I would love to see Megabus Gold over here.


LOL, with their fractured management and drivers whining about Van Hools, and there goes the $1 fares! Megabus is known for low-cost service, that's what they need to focus on.

As far as more comfortable buses, I'm pretty sure Greyhound VIP could do a lot better: http://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/f/f2/Greyhound_Canada_1118-a.jpg.


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## Green Maned Lion

When Greyhound starts offering Sleeper busses with actual bunks and blankets, we can compare it to the same farchakta image of what appears to be a rebuilt 102D3 you've shown in the past three links.

In the meanwhile, I, with my bad back, will refuse to compare a greyhound seat, even if it is an Amaya VIP, with a berth.


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## railiner

Thanks, rickycourtney for the photo's and the story. I agree that it seems surprising that Seattle will manage with only 4 loading platforms....I have been in cities a small fraction of Seattles size that have twice that number. It will certainly hamper operations during peak periods.... :unsure:

A special thanks for including that nostalgic link to the historic photo's of the old terminal! :hi:


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## Swadian Hardcore

Green Maned Lion said:


> When Greyhound starts offering Sleeper busses with actual bunks and blankets, we can compare it to the same farchakta image of what appears to be a rebuilt 102D3 you've shown in the past three links.
> 
> In the meanwhile, I, with my bad back, will refuse to compare a greyhound seat, even if it is an Amaya VIP, with a berth.


I actually don't like sleeping fully-flat sometimes, I would rather sleep in a seat, that's in a bus, not a train.

I've slept on sleeper buses in China, oh you don't want to ride in those! Would rather ride a seated bus even though the King Long and Yaxing coaches have terrible legroom and ride rough.

BTW, you can make a DL3 sleeper bus: http://tulsaskiclub.com/sleeperbuses.htm. The design isn't that great I think, that one can only sleep 20 pax comfortably but thay want to squeeze in 40? And they need bigger dividers. But since the DL3 has the more spacious cross-section in bus history, it's not a bad idea.

Of course Greyhound wouldn't do that, because buses are not good at sleeper ops, they earn much more money with no more than 2-2 VIP seats. And VIP or PT seats should be fine for a 12-hour daytime ride. If you're toruing, you're supposed to sleep in a hotel every 12 hours! That way you miss no scenery!


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## rickycourtney

railiner said:


> Thanks, rickycourtney for the photo's and the story. I agree that it seems surprising that Seattle will manage with only 4 loading platforms....I have been in cities a small fraction of Seattles size that have twice that number. It will certainly hamper operations during peak periods.... :unsure:
> 
> A special thanks for including that nostalgic link to the historic photo's of the old terminal! :hi:


 You got it Mr. Railiner! Back in its heyday that station really was a nice place (although not quite as grand as King Street Station or Union Station) it's sad to see it go, but that's the price of progress.

As far as operations go... I think Greyhound will make it work. Unlike other stations they don't do any maintenance at the current Seattle station. Buses pull in, drop off/pick up passengers and pull out. I think all the maintenance and refueling will be done at the yard in West Seattle.


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## Swadian Hardcore

rickycourtney said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, rickycourtney for the photo's and the story. I agree that it seems surprising that Seattle will manage with only 4 loading platforms....I have been in cities a small fraction of Seattles size that have twice that number. It will certainly hamper operations during peak periods.... :unsure:
> 
> A special thanks for including that nostalgic link to the historic photo's of the old terminal! :hi:
> 
> 
> 
> You got it Mr. Railiner! Back in its heyday that station really was a nice place (although not quite as grand as King Street Station or Union Station) it's sad to see it go, but that's the price of progress.
> 
> As far as operations go... I think Greyhound will make it work. Unlike other stations they don't do any maintenance at the current Seattle station. Buses pull in, drop off/pick up passengers and pull out. I think all the maintenance and refueling will be done at the yard in West Seattle.
Click to expand...

I heard that all the heavy maintainence is done in Vancouver, and with all those G4500's, they would need a lot of heavy maint. Vancouver is pretty much the biggest Greyhound garage in the area, the next closest is Edmonton.

Denver and Los Angeles are both far from Seattle and I don't know if Denver can do heavy maint.


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## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Greyhound starts offering Sleeper busses with actual bunks and blankets, we can compare it to the same farchakta image of what appears to be a rebuilt 102D3 you've shown in the past three links.
> 
> In the meanwhile, I, with my bad back, will refuse to compare a greyhound seat, even if it is an Amaya VIP, with a berth.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually don't like sleeping fully-flat sometimes, I would rather sleep in a seat, that's in a bus, not a train.
> 
> I've slept on sleeper buses in China, oh you don't want to ride in those! Would rather ride a seated bus even though the King Long and Yaxing coaches have terrible legroom and ride rough.
> 
> BTW, you can make a DL3 sleeper bus: http://tulsaskiclub.com/sleeperbuses.htm. The design isn't that great I think, that one can only sleep 20 pax comfortably but thay want to squeeze in 40? And they need bigger dividers. But since the DL3 has the more spacious cross-section in bus history, it's not a bad idea.
> 
> Of course Greyhound wouldn't do that, because buses are not good at sleeper ops, they earn much more money with no more than 2-2 VIP seats. And VIP or PT seats should be fine for a 12-hour daytime ride. If you're toruing, you're supposed to sleep in a hotel every 12 hours! That way you miss no scenery!
Click to expand...

Well since my thread is going completely off topic I guess I'll join in the madness.

Swadian, you and I must have very different backs... I HATE sleeping in a chair. At best I can only grab a short nap in a chair... ANY chair be it on a plane, bus, train, car or even in my living room.

That's why when I take the train overnight... I get a sleeper car. If I can't afford that, I get a plane ticket and a hotel room.

I could see overnight sleeper buses being successful here in the US... in the right market. It has to be a long, boring drive between two major metropolitan areas. One that comes to mind is LA to San Francisco. I wouldn't mind jumping on a bus in LA around 11pm, sleeping in a bed and arriving in San Francisco just after 7am. My only thought is that it would be better for sleeping if the driver drove at a slower speed. That would also save on fuel and allow time to offer passengers coffee and a pastry for breakfast. Sounds much nicer for business travel than waking up early for the first flight from LAX-SFO.

Also I don't really get the excitement over these few Greyhound's with "VIP" seats... they have a bigger headrest and maybe a bit plusher fabric... but they're still the same as a regular seat where it counts... width. They are 17.5-18.5 inches across... that's barely wider than a coach seat on an airplane.


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## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, rickycourtney for the photo's and the story. I agree that it seems surprising that Seattle will manage with only 4 loading platforms....I have been in cities a small fraction of Seattles size that have twice that number. It will certainly hamper operations during peak periods.... :unsure:
> 
> A special thanks for including that nostalgic link to the historic photo's of the old terminal! :hi:
> 
> 
> 
> You got it Mr. Railiner! Back in its heyday that station really was a nice place (although not quite as grand as King Street Station or Union Station) it's sad to see it go, but that's the price of progress.
> 
> As far as operations go... I think Greyhound will make it work. Unlike other stations they don't do any maintenance at the current Seattle station. Buses pull in, drop off/pick up passengers and pull out. I think all the maintenance and refueling will be done at the yard in West Seattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I heard that all the heavy maintainence is done in Vancouver, and with all those G4500's, they would need a lot of heavy maint. Vancouver is pretty much the biggest Greyhound garage in the area, the next closest is Edmonton.
> 
> Denver and Los Angeles are both far from Seattle and I don't know if Denver can do heavy maint.
Click to expand...

I more meant for servicing and light maintenance... things like refueling, topping off engine fluids, emptying the trashcans, pumping the lavatory and maybe sending it through a wash bay. The normal stuff you need to do between runs.

That stuff (I assume) is normally done *at* the larger stations... but Seattle sends their buses over to the yard in West Seattle for servicing.


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## Swadian Hardcore

I don't know, the seat width is fine for me. 17" is actually fine for me. I don't really know what other people like, I mean, I'm below average size but not very small either. Sleeping on a King Long is uncomfortable, sleeping on a DL3 might not be, since sitting on a DL3 is a lot better than sitting on a King Long. Driving at slow speeds actually makes it worse IMO.

As I said, talking about buses, not about trains. Trains, yes, Sleeper. Buses, no.

Overnight sleeper buses, I still think they're pointless in the US. And the Greyhound's with "VIP" seats are just a bit better, I know that, but as long as it's a bunch more comfy than a car, that's good enough already, considering Greyhound is apparently trying to bash long car trips.

BTW, my car smells very bad, even though I try to keep it as clean as possible, like not eating in it, picking up trash, etc. That's why I always ask what this bus or that train smells like.

I don't know what those "VIP" things are like anyway, why don't you go to Canada and ride one? Like a hop to Whistler. Sure you might get a PT DL3, but you've never taken a PT, either. With the PT, I know it's the overall design that does it, not the seat width, or seat pitch, I was thinking the "VIP" probably does it even better. You want a big seat, Amtrak's got plenty of them, but they ain't designed very well.


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## Swadian Hardcore

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, rickycourtney for the photo's and the story. I agree that it seems surprising that Seattle will manage with only 4 loading platforms....I have been in cities a small fraction of Seattles size that have twice that number. It will certainly hamper operations during peak periods.... :unsure:
> 
> A special thanks for including that nostalgic link to the historic photo's of the old terminal! :hi:
> 
> 
> 
> You got it Mr. Railiner! Back in its heyday that station really was a nice place (although not quite as grand as King Street Station or Union Station) it's sad to see it go, but that's the price of progress.
> 
> As far as operations go... I think Greyhound will make it work. Unlike other stations they don't do any maintenance at the current Seattle station. Buses pull in, drop off/pick up passengers and pull out. I think all the maintenance and refueling will be done at the yard in West Seattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I heard that all the heavy maintainence is done in Vancouver, and with all those G4500's, they would need a lot of heavy maint. Vancouver is pretty much the biggest Greyhound garage in the area, the next closest is Edmonton.
> 
> Denver and Los Angeles are both far from Seattle and I don't know if Denver can do heavy maint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I more meant for servicing and light maintenance... things like refueling, topping off engine fluids, emptying the trashcans, pumping the lavatory and maybe sending it through a wash bay. The normal stuff you need to do between runs.
> 
> That stuff (I assume) is normally done *at* the larger stations... but Seattle sends their buses over to the yard in West Seattle for servicing.
Click to expand...

I don't know what they do at Sacramento, that station has no servicing or light maint facilities, Reno actually has a shed and a fueling facility. But I heard Gray Line of Seattle is in big trouble, I can't even search their tours anymore, and tons of their buses are for sale at Northwest Bus Sales.

Last time I saw #86516 in SAC coming from Portland, that thing proceeded to pull out empty to some unknown place. I assume it was deadheading to Oakland for refueling. That's very inefficient. And I'm surprised the Oakland station isn't besieged by crooks.

Anyway, Vancouver seems to make way more money for Greyhound than Seattle right now, don't know why.


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## rickycourtney

Just as I wrote that Greyhound's servicing/light maintenance is done in West Seattle I watched a Greyhound bus come off the Alaskan Way Viaduct making its way from West Seattle to the station in Downtown Seattle.

It was a refurbished G4500 (#7202) and the headsign said Missoula, MT. So doing a little research that means it's schedule 1276 which departs Seattle at 23:30. That bus I just saw would arrive at the Seattle Greyhound station at 23:15... so just 15 minutes to pick up passengers and go. That is an impressively short dwell time!

There's plenty of room to store buses at the Greyhound station in Downtown Seattle so maybe they're testing out these short dwells to prepare drivers for operations at the new station in SODO.

Also it wouldn't be "Grey Line of Seattle" anymore.... the name was changed to Horizon Coach Lines of Seattle back in 2009. But it seems Horizon has pulled out of Seattle (the city is no longer listed on the companies website, except for a dead link).

Greyhound may have bought the lot from Horizon in preparation for this move to SODO.


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## rickycourtney

Actually come to think of it... Greyhound never did any servicing or maintenance at the Downtown Seattle station. I've seen pictures of a huge garage they used to own a couple of blocks away on Denny near Stewart. It got demolished a couple months ago to make room for a new power substation for Seattle City Light.


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## Green Maned Lion

The human back isn't designed for sleeping sitting up.

Furthermore, the reason I don't drive long distances where I take a bus is because I have tiredness and falling asleep issues. I have never found something more comfortable than the seat in my car. In fact, my computer chair which I made myself is a seat out of a 1987 Peugeot 505. If you find car seats uncomfortable, your driving the wrong car. Either that or your anatomy is wonky.


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## fairviewroad

Swadian Hardcore said:


> You could not be more wrong on that, Greyhound is re-focusing on long-distance trips again, precisely to compete against LD car-trippers. Greyhound has reintroduced many long-distance routes, like New York-Miami, New York-Atlanta, Chicago-Dallas, Amarillo-San Antonio, etc.


I'll yield to your superior knowledge of Greyhound, and it's nice to know they're planning shorter layovers (though I think if I was traveling across country I'd prefer a 2 or 3 hour layover to a 30 minute layover, provided it wasn't in the middle of the night). But from a marketing standpoint, if you go to their website you just see mention of a bunch of disconnected corridor/short-haul type services. At the same time, they've abandoned large sections of the American interior. That's why I was under the impression that they've de-emphasized long-haul travel.


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## Swadian Hardcore

fairviewroad said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could not be more wrong on that, Greyhound is re-focusing on long-distance trips again, precisely to compete against LD car-trippers. Greyhound has reintroduced many long-distance routes, like New York-Miami, New York-Atlanta, Chicago-Dallas, Amarillo-San Antonio, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll yield to your superior knowledge of Greyhound, and it's nice to know they're planning shorter layovers (though I think if I was traveling across country I'd prefer a 2 or 3 hour layover to a 30 minute layover, provided it wasn't in the middle of the night). But from a marketing standpoint, if you go to their website you just see mention of a bunch of disconnected corridor/short-haul type services. At the same time, they've abandoned large sections of the American interior. That's why I was under the impression that they've de-emphasized long-haul travel.
Click to expand...

Reason for that was due to bad reputation, low-cost airlines, and the G4500 disaster. All those caused ridership on LD routes to plummet. The G4500 was supposed to be Greyhound's primary LD bus, but that plan backfired and (figuratively) passengers jumped out of burning G4500's in North Dakota.



rickycourtney said:


> Just as I wrote that Greyhound's servicing/light maintenance is done in West Seattle I watched a Greyhound bus come off the Alaskan Way Viaduct making its way from West Seattle to the station in Downtown Seattle.
> 
> It was a refurbished G4500 (#7202) and the headsign said Missoula, MT. So doing a little research that means it's schedule 1276 which departs Seattle at 23:30. That bus I just saw would arrive at the Seattle Greyhound station at 23:15... so just 15 minutes to pick up passengers and go. That is an impressively short dwell time!
> 
> There's plenty of room to store buses at the Greyhound station in Downtown Seattle so maybe they're testing out these short dwells to prepare drivers for operations at the new station in SODO.
> 
> Also it wouldn't be "Grey Line of Seattle" anymore.... the name was changed to Horizon Coach Lines of Seattle back in 2009. But it seems Horizon has pulled out of Seattle (the city is no longer listed on the companies website, except for a dead link).
> 
> Greyhound may have bought the lot from Horizon in preparation for this move to SODO.


Why would they buy the lot from Horizon? They already store buses at Portland at Vancouver. This seems peculiar to me. Anyway, since Horizon pulled out of Seattle, that explains why so many of their buses are for sale. Anyone wanna buy a used bus, they've got pleanty in Seattle and Las Vegas.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Green Maned Lion said:


> The human back isn't designed for sleeping sitting up.
> 
> Furthermore, the reason I don't drive long distances where I take a bus is because I have tiredness and falling asleep issues. I have never found something more comfortable than the seat in my car. In fact, my computer chair which I made myself is a seat out of a 1987 Peugeot 505. If you find car seats uncomfortable, your driving the wrong car. Either that or your anatomy is wonky.


I said cars smell bad, that's what I said. Cars and Amtrak both smell worse than Greyhound. I've never ridden a good-smelling car, FYI. And I don't think cars are comfortable, because their interior is too small. If you think cars are comfortable, then it's because you're a car fan vouching for cars. I can't blame you 'cause I'm a bus fan vouching for Greyhound.

This debate isn't going anywhere because there's a diehard car fan arguing a diehard bus fan. Now at least I drive a car every weekday since transit in Reno is too slow. But you seem to no ride any Greyhound buses. I do both and you only do one. So again, let's agree to disagree.

And you want to sleep flat on Greyhound? Take over a seat pair, put a mat on the seat, fold up the middle armrest, and sleep flat on the seat bottoms just like that. The seat bottom could be dirty, that's why you need a mat, and a pillow too.


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## jebr

Swadian Hardcore said:


> And you want to sleep flat on Greyhound? Take over a seat pair, put a mat on the seat, fold up the middle armrest, and sleep flat on the seat bottoms just like that. The seat bottom could be dirty, that's why you need a mat, and a pillow too.


Yeah, no. I can't imagine anyone over about 4' or so (if that) being able to lie truly flat on a Greyhound bus (unless they get lucky and can command the back row of seats to themselves, and even then they may not be able to.)


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## Green Maned Lion

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> The human back isn't designed for sleeping sitting up.
> 
> Furthermore, the reason I don't drive long distances where I take a bus is because I have tiredness and falling asleep issues. I have never found something more comfortable than the seat in my car. In fact, my computer chair which I made myself is a seat out of a 1987 Peugeot 505. If you find car seats uncomfortable, your driving the wrong car. Either that or your anatomy is wonky.
> 
> 
> 
> I said cars smell bad, that's what I said. Cars and Amtrak both smell worse than Greyhound. I've never ridden a good-smelling car, FYI. And I don't think cars are comfortable, because their interior is too small. If you think cars are comfortable, then it's because you're a car fan vouching for cars. I can't blame you 'cause I'm a bus fan vouching for Greyhound.
> 
> This debate isn't going anywhere because there's a diehard car fan arguing a diehard bus fan. Now at least I drive a car every weekday since transit in Reno is too slow. But you seem to no ride any Greyhound buses. I do both and you only do one. So again, let's agree to disagree.
> 
> And you want to sleep flat on Greyhound? Take over a seat pair, put a mat on the seat, fold up the middle armrest, and sleep flat on the seat bottoms just like that. The seat bottom could be dirty, that's why you need a mat, and a pillow too.
Click to expand...

I'm not a diehard car fan. Do you read my posts?

Every car I owned had plenty of space for my 5'9" 375 lb frame. Most bus seats are far too narrow. Wait, I exclude from that statement, in right of honesty, my Porsche 912 was a tad tight. None of my Benzes have ever been, nor my friends Volvos, nor my mothers Audi, or even, though I found it awfully uncomfortable and a bad smelling piece of crap, my dad's Accord.

I'd think you'd like the smell of most of my Benzes. They smelled of diesel fuel mixed lightly with horsehair.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Guess what? You guys don't like Greyhound, so be it. I like Greyhound and I'll ride Greyhound. You ride whatever you want to ride, but my car sucks and Amtrak isn't great either, so I won't ride them. As I said before, we'll agree to disagree.


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## Green Maned Lion

When did I EVER said I don't like Greyhound? Ever?

I'd like sleeper busses. I don't recall throwing a greyhound comdemnAtion in with that.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Green Maned Lion said:


> When did I EVER said I don't like Greyhound? Ever?
> 
> I'd like sleeper busses. I don't recall throwing a greyhound comdemnAtion in with that.


Wow GML, have fun throwing rocks at a statue. Except throwing rocks at a statue still gets you arrested.


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## AmtrakBlue

Swadian, why set you even on this forum. You've said numerous times that you don't like Amtrak.


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## jebr

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Guess what? You guys don't like Greyhound, so be it. I like Greyhound and I'll ride Greyhound. You ride whatever you want to ride, but my car sucks and Amtrak isn't great either, so I won't ride them. As I said before, we'll agree to disagree.


Just out of curiousity, how does calling out the fact that using two seats on Greyhound is not the same as a sleeper bed make me not like Greyhound? I thought it was just stating the facts of the matter...while two seats are nice on a bus (and I'll often buy two seats when riding intercity bus services to have both to myself) it is nowhere near a "lie-flat" bed. Not even close.


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> BTW, my car smells very bad, even though I try to keep it as clean as possible, like not eating in it, picking up trash, etc. That's why I always ask what this bus or that train smells like.
> 
> .


I would suggest that you go to an auto parts store, and purchase a special spray that you use to kill mold and bacteria in your car's air conditioning system--a common cause of odor's that are not coming from car's upholstery or carpet....


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Greyhound starts offering Sleeper busses with actual bunks and blankets, we can compare it to the same farchakta image of what appears to be a rebuilt 102D3 you've shown in the past three links.
> 
> In the meanwhile, I, with my bad back, will refuse to compare a greyhound seat, even if it is an Amaya VIP, with a berth.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually don't like sleeping fully-flat sometimes, I would rather sleep in a seat, that's in a bus, not a train.
> 
> I've slept on sleeper buses in China, oh you don't want to ride in those! Would rather ride a seated bus even though the King Long and Yaxing coaches have terrible legroom and ride rough.
> 
> BTW, you can make a DL3 sleeper bus: http://tulsaskiclub.com/sleeperbuses.htm. The design isn't that great I think, that one can only sleep 20 pax comfortably but thay want to squeeze in 40? And they need bigger dividers. But since the DL3 has the more spacious cross-section in bus history, it's not a bad idea.
> 
> Of course Greyhound wouldn't do that, because buses are not good at sleeper ops, they earn much more money with no more than 2-2 VIP seats. And VIP or PT seats should be fine for a 12-hour daytime ride. If you're toruing, you're supposed to sleep in a hotel every 12 hours! That way you miss no scenery!
Click to expand...

When I was with Continental Trailways in Denver, back in the late 1970's, I used to see everyweek during the ski season, one or two of our Eagle buses that were converted to sleeper's, just like the MCI you have pictured in the link. They came up to the ski area's from Oklahoma or Wichita on Friday night, and returned on Sunday night, giving the "slope-dopes" all day Saturday and Sunday to ski, and not miss any of their work week.

I will say that the seats in the daytime position were very uncomfortable to sit in, as there wasn't any contour or recline to their flat upright backs, but fortunately, most of the trip was overnite, with the seats converted to beds...similar to the way the seats in a Superliner Roomette convert....

And yes....you had to be 'very friendly' with your seatmate to share the bunk at night if occupied by two per bunk to yield the 40 passengers.....since the bus was ran as a charter, and not a public schedule...the passenger's were part of a club that knew each other, already..


----------



## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Why would they buy the lot from Horizon? They already store buses at Portland at Vancouver. This seems peculiar to me.


Like I said... Greyhound used to have a large servicing and maintenance facility in Seattle at Denny and Stewart but the land has been sold and the building demolished. But the company needed a facility to do routine servicing between runs. They're not gonna send a bus back to Portland or Vancouver with an empty gas tank and full trash cans.

Grey Line/Horizon had the land already... so Greyhound paid them to let them use the facility. Now that Horizon is leaving Seattle I'm guessing Greyhound will buy that lot from them.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

jebr said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what? You guys don't like Greyhound, so be it. I like Greyhound and I'll ride Greyhound. You ride whatever you want to ride, but my car sucks and Amtrak isn't great either, so I won't ride them. As I said before, we'll agree to disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of curiousity, how does calling out the fact that using two seats on Greyhound is not the same as a sleeper bed make me not like Greyhound? I thought it was just stating the facts of the matter...while two seats are nice on a bus (and I'll often buy two seats when riding intercity bus services to have both to myself) it is nowhere near a "lie-flat" bed. Not even close.
Click to expand...

I was directing comments at GML, not you. And since I don't sleep well on a flat bed in a bus, plus it causes trouble with seat belt and ADA regulations, and even more, it loses money for the bus operator, you can see I have absolutely no reason to support any kind of flat bed on a bus.



AmtrakBlue said:


> Swadian, why set you even on this forum. You've said numerous times that you don't like Amtrak.


The reason is very simple: I like trains, but I don't like Amtrak.



railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, my car smells very bad, even though I try to keep it as clean as possible, like not eating in it, picking up trash, etc. That's why I always ask what this bus or that train smells like.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest that you go to an auto parts store, and purchase a special spray that you use to kill mold and bacteria in your car's air conditioning system--a common cause of odor's that are not coming from car's upholstery or carpet....
Click to expand...

I've got not idea, the upholstry is already bad. You can clean upholstry, but it'll still smell bad.



rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would they buy the lot from Horizon? They already store buses at Portland at Vancouver. This seems peculiar to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said... Greyhound used to have a large servicing and maintenance facility in Seattle at Denny and Stewart but the land has been sold and the building demolished. But the company needed a facility to do routine servicing between runs. They're not gonna send a bus back to Portland or Vancouver with an empty gas tank and full trash cans.
> 
> Grey Line/Horizon had the land already... so Greyhound paid them to let them use the facility. Now that Horizon is leaving Seattle I'm guessing Greyhound will buy that lot from them.
Click to expand...

OK, I get that. But how do they do it in places Missoula, without driving around with full trash cans?



railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Greyhound starts offering Sleeper busses with actual bunks and blankets, we can compare it to the same farchakta image of what appears to be a rebuilt 102D3 you've shown in the past three links.
> 
> In the meanwhile, I, with my bad back, will refuse to compare a greyhound seat, even if it is an Amaya VIP, with a berth.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually don't like sleeping fully-flat sometimes, I would rather sleep in a seat, that's in a bus, not a train.
> 
> I've slept on sleeper buses in China, oh you don't want to ride in those! Would rather ride a seated bus even though the King Long and Yaxing coaches have terrible legroom and ride rough.
> 
> BTW, you can make a DL3 sleeper bus: http://tulsaskiclub.com/sleeperbuses.htm. The design isn't that great I think, that one can only sleep 20 pax comfortably but thay want to squeeze in 40? And they need bigger dividers. But since the DL3 has the more spacious cross-section in bus history, it's not a bad idea.
> 
> Of course Greyhound wouldn't do that, because buses are not good at sleeper ops, they earn much more money with no more than 2-2 VIP seats. And VIP or PT seats should be fine for a 12-hour daytime ride. If you're touring, you're supposed to sleep in a hotel every 12 hours! That way you miss no scenery!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I was with Continental Trailways in Denver, back in the late 1970's, I used to see everyweek during the ski season, one or two of our Eagle buses that were converted to sleeper's, just like the MCI you have pictured in the link. They came up to the ski area's from Oklahoma or Wichita on Friday night, and returned on Sunday night, giving the "slope-dopes" all day Saturday and Sunday to ski, and not miss any of their work week.
> 
> I will say that the seats in the daytime position were very uncomfortable to sit in, as there wasn't any contour or recline to their flat upright backs, but fortunately, most of the trip was overnite, with the seats converted to beds...similar to the way the seats in a Superliner Roomette convert....
> 
> And yes....you had to be 'very friendly' with your seatmate to share the bunk at night if occupied by two per bunk to yield the 40 passengers.....since the bus was ran as a charter, and not a public schedule...the passenger's were part of a club that knew each other, already..
Click to expand...

See? Railiner has explained excatly why I'm totally against scheduled sleeper buses. They can't be used in the daytime, and they're hard to maintain. As mentioned above, they also cause complications with seat belts and ADA. Now at least that was an Eagle, if you go to China and ride a King Long sleeper bus in the upper berth, you will NEVER say "yes" to a sleeper bus again!


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Why not take a look at the Megabus Gold service I mentioned instead of relating irrelevancies, ignoring personal messages, and attacking the idea of a service you personally don't want to use?


----------



## rickycourtney

Something that Megabus Gold has going for it is that the seats actually look comfortable in the daytime configuration. It appears that the bottom berth uses those seat cushions to create surface for a mattress (like the lower berth in an Amtrak roomette) while the upper berth is like a hammock. It's also nice that each group of passengers gets a separate "section" with 2 or 4 seats during the daytime. Van Hool says the bus seats 55 during the day and can sleep 42 (a traditional MegaBus double decker seats 81). There are some nice pictures posted on this news release.

Looking at the picture of the 102DL3 that Swadian posted... those seats look horrible.

As far as to these sleeper buses "not making money"... looking at a trip from London to Aberdeen next Friday, a ticket on a traditional Megabus route is £12 ($20 US) while an overnight trip on Megabus Gold is £30 ($51 US). So they're charging a pretty big premium to recoup the costs of having fewer passengers per bus and paying an attendant to serve drinks/snacks and do the turndown service.

But again, you would need the right market for an overnight sleeper bus to work here in the US.


----------



## rickycourtney

Back to the original topic...

I stopped by the new station site earlier today and more signage is going up now. The Greyhound running dog logo is up over the front door (no Greyhound lettering yet) and a small Greyhound Package Express sign over the side door. Out in the bus loading area the slip number signs are up (as I guessed, there will be just 4 slips) as is a "Welcome to Seattle, WA" sign. On the east side of the station there is another Greyhound running dog logo.

The landscaping is also mostly installed at this point... and it looks really nice. Nice to have a little green in this very industrial part of town.

Parking will be incredibly limited at this new station. In the tiny lot in front of the station there are 4 spots marked for 1 hour parking (I think at least 2 of these spots will be dedicated to Greyhound Package Express). In small parking lot across the street from the station there are 3 spots for taxi's to wait, 6 spots dedicated to employee parking and 6 spots for 30 minute customer parking.

You also may have noticed that huge piece of artwork behind the station. That's Susan Zoccola's _Bloom_. She actually fought the placement of the Greyhound station here... saying it obstructed too much of the artwork. Here's an article on her fight from 2012.

Greyhound has done a pretty good job keeping much of the piece exposed... and I think it actually gives the station a really classy look.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Parking at the Reno station is a bit better, but you don't want to park there because the city charges parking fees and there's vandals all over the place. So I always need someone to drop me off or take the slow transit bus.


----------



## railiner

rickycourtney said:


> Back to the original topic...
> 
> I stopped by the new station site earlier today and more signage is going up now. The Greyhound running dog logo is up over the front door (no Greyhound lettering yet) and a small Greyhound Package Express sign over the side door. Out in the bus loading area the slip number signs are up (as I guessed, there will be just 4 slips) as is a "Welcome to Seattle, WA" sign. On the east side of the station there is another Greyhound running dog logo.
> 
> The landscaping is also mostly installed at this point... and it looks really nice. Nice to have a little green in this very industrial part of town.
> 
> Parking will be incredibly limited at this new station. In the tiny lot in front of the station there are 4 spots marked for 1 hour parking (I think at least 2 of these spots will be dedicated to Greyhound Package Express). In small parking lot across the street from the station there are 3 spots for taxi's to wait, 6 spots dedicated to employee parking and 6 spots for 30 minute customer parking.
> 
> You also may have noticed that huge piece of artwork behind the station. That's Susan Zoccola's _Bloom_. She actually fought the placement of the Greyhound station here... saying it obstructed too much of the artwork. Here's an article on her fight from 2012.
> 
> Greyhound has done a pretty good job keeping much of the piece exposed... and I think it actually gives the station a really classy look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photo 1.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> photo 2.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> photo 3.JPG


Thanks for posting those updated photo's.....I will have to reserve judgement until I actually see the new terminal myself, but from what I have seen so far, well.......I'm not very impressed. It looks more like what I would expect from a city of about a quarter, perhaps, of Seattle's size.

I guess I was comparing it to what Greyhound was producing in the era around 1970, when they were opening new 'palaces' at a rate of one-a-month, nationwide. Terminal's like the one's in Columbus, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, etc.....(the latter two have since been replaced by newer, smaller ones....)

Those days when Greyhound clearly dominated nationwide bus travel are 'gone with the wind'.

I suppose I should be glad that they are at least having a terminal for their passenger's comfort, rather than loading them at some curbside location, depending on nearby businesses to provide shelter....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

I think such a small station may have to do with the low amount of schedules for Seattle. Greyhound operates less runs on the Seattle-Portland route than Amtrak or its own BoltBus. They used to have lots more runs, but presumably G4500's caused plummeting ridership, Seattle is currently one of the lowest-rated Greyhound stations, if not THE lowest.

It's also no match for Greyhound's other newly-constructed stations, like Sacramento, Memphis, Nashivlle, and planned stations for Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc. Now San Francisco's temporary station is tiny but it's just temporary.


----------



## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Seattle is currently one of the lowest-rated Greyhound stations, if not THE lowest.


Who exactly is rating the stations? Is there a list of these ratings?


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle is currently one of the lowest-rated Greyhound stations, if not THE lowest.
> 
> 
> 
> Who exactly is rating the stations? Is there a list of these ratings?
Click to expand...

Ever read Greyhound reviews? Most reviews are low, but reviews from Seattle are the lowest, followed by others in G4500 territory. Sacramento used to have terrible reviews, but ratings have shot up since the G4500 got oussted.


----------



## rickycourtney

No I don't really sit around reading passenger reviews of Greyhound from different cities... but I imagine it might be good for a couple of laughs.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

rickycourtney said:


> No I don't really sit around reading passenger reviews of Greyhound from different cities... but I imagine it might be good for a couple of laughs.


Yes sir, good for a couple of laughs. But you know Greyhound Seattle has been getting the short end of the stick since 2005.


----------



## tp49

Swadian Hardcore said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't really sit around reading passenger reviews of Greyhound from different cities... but I imagine it might be good for a couple of laughs.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir, good for a couple of laughs. But you know Greyhound Seattle has been getting the short end of the stick since 2005.
Click to expand...

Sounds like there's a commercial in there "Greyhound Seattle. Getting the short end of the stick since 2005." [/announcer voice]


----------



## rickycourtney

So for my morning laughs I did as you suggested and went to Yelp and looked up Greyhound in Seattle.

1) A lot of complaints about the station (dumpy, ghetto, dirty, ratty, grim) which seem to be warranted from my step inside. Greyhound has basically stopped spending any money on maintaining the current station. Hopefully the new station will make a slightly better impression.

2) Praise for the new buses, complaints about the unpredictability of them ("The quality of the buses was definitely varied. Some were old and had no wi-fi or plugs. One had plush leather seats, wi-fi, and plugs, the whole shebang.") Again, this will change over the next few years (although as I walked by the old station yesterday it was nothing but old buses.)

3) Honestly, the funniest part of the reviews are people talking about fellow passengers (transient, smelly, loud, hippy chick, scared youngster). This is honestly the complaint I've heard about Greyhound most often. I'm not sure there's much the company can do to change this part of their image. They could demand that all passengers show a valid ID to board a bus... but that could alienate a portion of their passengers (and the money those passengers spend.)

4) A lot of the passengers love to slam Greyhound... but praise BoltBus. It's amazing what a can of red paint can do for a Greyhound bus.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Ricky, I agree with #1, you might as well not maintain an old falling-apart station when the move is imminent. As for #2, the Seattle fleet could be rebuilt by the end of 2014, because Greyhound still needs to replace their spare buses (C2045's, 102D3', Viaggio's, Multego's, etc) if they want to hit their stated goal of an "Elite Fleet" by 2016.

For #3, they already demand a valid photo ID for every passenger, except the driver doesn't always it. Seattle has Greyhound's worst drivers because the good drivers apprently resigned en masse after they got angry at smelling burning-plastic G4500's. It wasn't that hard for them to get another job, rumors have it that some Seattle drivers switched to Greyhound Canada Vancouver, which is DL3 territory. Something similar happened with Los Angeles, which was also G4500 territory until October 2013.

Now take a look at those passengers described, transient and loud are going to get kicked off the bus by a good driver. Remember good drivers make do on threats and drivers can choose to kick any passenger out on their own volition. Smelly? Maybe it was because the G4500's smell bad, not the passengers, the HVAC is supposed to cycle air every two minutes. Hippy chick and scared youngster? They're not going to harm you.

And finally for #4, well the rebuilt G4500 might actually be better than Bolt's X3-45's, since the seats don't sag. So just wait for those to come up, the D4505's really boosted Sacramento reviews after the G4500's got ousted. But yes, the easiest way to increase value of a house is a fresh paint job.

It's obvious that the reason Greyhound neglected Seattle is due to poor profits and low ridership, the worst in the nation, which caused heavy route cuts. So I will venture to say that, since Greyhound's biggest demographic is historically African-American, the low black population in Seattle may have supressed ridership. Then again, Whitehorse gets DL3's even though they don't have much blacks at all. No offense intended, but you can't deny that racial prejudice exists in this country.


----------



## rickycourtney

Greyhound's old station has a sign up that announces that they will be making the move to the new station in SoDo on Wednesday, May 21st.

I stopped by the new station today and it's mostly ready. The fences are down and most of the signage is up in the station. The only thing that is missing is the "Greyhound" logotype over the entrance, a sign in front of the station and seating for passengers inside the station (which they may be transferring from the old station.)


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Hmm, I believe 21 May is the 100th Anniversary for Greyhound.


----------



## neroden

My interest was piqued by the statement that the old station was built as a railway station. It took me a while to dig up the history of the old station. This "Central Station" is listed on most maps as the "Interurban Depot"; it was the station for the Seattle-Everett electric interurban streetcar line.

Sadly I haven't dug up maps of the Seattle-area interurbans. (My favorite series of railroad atlases is quite deficient on this matter.)

An article on some related matters:

http://pauldorpat.com/2010/09/11/seattle-now-then-the-central-bus-terminal/


----------



## CHamilton

neroden said:


> Sadly I haven't dug up maps of the Seattle-area interurbans. (My favorite series of railroad atlases is quite deficient on this matter.)


There's a map at this HistoryLink article and another one here, although neither are very detailed. Here's a better one, but the print is pretty small.




There are a couple of good books on the trolleys of the region: _To Seattle by Trolley_ and _To Tacoma by Trolley_, both by Warren Wing. There's also a book called _Apple Country Interurban_ by Kenneth Johnson, about the interurbans of Yakima (outlined in this HistoryLink article by some clown named C Hamilton  )


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Wow, that doesn't seem like a well-planned interurban, it just seemed to go around the population and detour through the woods. I thought it would've run along Pacific Highway/Aurora Ave.


----------



## CHamilton

Aurora Avenue didn't exist in its current configuration until the 1930s.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

That makes sense now. Thanks.


----------



## rickycourtney

So while writing a story on the new station at work today I found out a little bit more:

The building has free Wi-Fi for passengers.

The waiting area has a bunch of power outlets along the wall. During the grand opening ceremonies none of the bench seating was in place, but it looked like the power outlets will sit right above the seat backs. Neat idea!

The station will have a self-serve convenience store. These are really popular here in Seattle. They have a much better selection than vending machines and you scan and pay for your items at an automated kiosk. Security cameras deter theft.

Also, Greyhound brought in a brand-new D4505 for the occasion. No joke, this thing looked like it had been washed and waxed for the occasion.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

A brand-new D4505? Greyhound didn't take delivery of another batch, so it shouldn't be that new. Also, they just took more X3-45's, now the numbers are up to 86689. That's a lot of Prevosts!


----------



## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> A brand-new D4505? Greyhound didn't take delivery of another batch, so it shouldn't be that new. Also, they just took more X3-45's, now the numbers are up to 86689. That's a lot of Prevosts!


 Well I guess I'm using a bit more loose definition of "brand-new" than you. Looked it up online and it was one of the last D4505's delivered in 2013... so about 6 months old. That's a lot newer than the 12+ year old G4500's that Greyhound normally uses in Seattle.


----------



## rickycourtney

Today was the first day of operations at the new Greyhound Depot in Sodo... and there was a ton of Greyhound employees there. Probably managers there to make sure that there were no hiccups.

In the past couple of days the crews put the final touches on the station... including all the Greyhound signage and I must admit that it looks nice.







This picture shows how close the new station is to the Link Light Rail Stadium station.




I was also able to go inside the station in snap a few pictures. The first picture is pretty blurry but the ticket counter looks really nice. The back wall is glossy blue tiles and the running dog had blue LED lights behind it that reflected onto the tile.




The waiting room with some TV's and a few vending machines (the rumors of a self serve convince store seems to not be true.)




The 2 boarding gates and the arrivals door. The station agents were allowing folks to sit on the seats outside (lovely weather here in Seattle today!)




The seats in the waiting room complete with power outlets (and I'm told free Wi-Fi).




The Greyhound Package Express office.




Must admit this sign is a bit unsettling...




My thoughts overall?

This station is in a good location in terms of access to public transportation and has really easy access to I-5 & I-90.

The station itself is a really utilitarian... I guess it's a nice enough place to wait for a few minutes but I can't escape the feeling that it will feel really run-down in a few years from now.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Ricky, there's something very complicated going on with Greyhound right now, and I think we should discuss it on the Greyhound thread, because it involves huge schedule changed nationwide.


----------



## railiner

Thanks for keeping us updated, Ricky, with all those photo's....

I am sorry, but I can't feel very enthusiastic seeing that new terminal...utilitarian, is an understatement....it sure doesn't do justice to representing the beautiful and vibrant city it is serving. I am comparing it in my mind with some of the 'palace's Greyhound built in the earlier era. This place looks like is is almost 'buried' by the garage and freeway structure.... more like a suburban 'park and ride' station, not a downtown terminal. But there's progress.......


----------



## CHamilton

rickycourtney said:


> This picture shows how close the new station is to the Link Light Rail Stadium station.
> 
> This station is in a good location in terms of access to public transportation and has really easy access to I-5 & I-90.


The problem with the light rail's Stadium station, and (I assume) the new bus terminal, is that it is very difficult to walk from there to anywhere else. Maybe the powers that be don't want bus patrons wandering around the neighborhood, but the Sodo neighborhood is not exactly fancy. It's full of industrial and warehouse facilities, with lots of fast food joints and such that would be appropriate for those laying over between buses.

Pedestrian Chronicles: No Stadium Access from Stadium Light Rail Station




> You would think the Stadium light rail station at South Royal Brougham Way between 4th and 6th Aves.—presumably designed with light rail commuters in mind—would be easily accessible by foot to and from the stadium from many directions.
> 
> My dangerous, circuitous, and inhospitable walk between Safeco Field and the light rail station last night taught me otherwise. There is, evidently, a single defined path on game day. But make one false move—like missing the unmarked doubleback loop off Royal Brougham—and suddenly you're in a concrete no-man's land that offers no out for pedestrians.
> 
> This major flaw makes it clear the station area planning was done without concern for people who are walking.


----------



## rickycourtney

I agree Charlie. The walk from Stadium Station and the new Greyhound station to the stadiums is long and a bit circuitous. It involves walking up a looped ramp that takes you up and over the railroad tracks. You're looking at a half mile walk to Safeco Field (shorter to the outfield gate) and the restaurants on 1st Ave and a 3/4 mile walk to CenturyLink Field. That's why most fans going to CenturyLink get off at International District/Chinatown station.




I think Stadium station is mostly used by people going to Mariners games and Metro Transit employees headed to the 3 bus bases in the area. But this Greyhound station will add a bit of traffic.

Stopped by both the old and new stations again today (needed to kill some time on my day off). Interesting to note that while the old station is covered in "we've moved" signs, and most of the Greyhound signs are coming down, it's still open in a limited capacity. They have one old unrefurbished G4500 (#7253) running as a shuttle between the old and new stations. Probably because Greyhound being Greyhound hasn't bothered to update their website.




Also stopped by the station. One refurbished G4500 had just finished it's run and was deadheading back to the depot in West Seattle as a H3-45 boarded passengers.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

H3-45 probably heading to Vancouver. I'm guessing Greyhound's IT guys are struggling with timetable changes for Greyhound massive route expansion and reshuffling for June 2014.

It's no surprise Greyhound is still neglecting Seattle and built this little station. Greyohund has been neglecting Seattle since 2004 due to poor profits, poor ridership, and poor stereotypes. Seattle has quite a lot of affluent people, who view down on Greyhound and refuse to ride it "at any cost", so Greyhound might as well neglect a city that hates Greyhound. After all, the general public doesn't know what the heck a G4500 is compared to a 102DL3.

Greyhound Vancouver has a much better reputation for some reason, so Greyhound is piling their best buses into Vancouver Garage.


----------



## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> H3-45 probably heading to Vancouver. I'm guessing Greyhound's IT guys are struggling with timetable changes for Greyhound massive route expansion and reshuffling for June 2014.


I HIGHLY doubt it takes that long to update the address of a station that has already moved.



Swadian Hardcore said:


> It's no surprise Greyhound is still neglecting Seattle and built this little station. Greyohund has been neglecting Seattle since 2004 due to poor profits, poor ridership, and poor stereotypes. Seattle has quite a lot of affluent people, who view down on Greyhound and refuse to ride it "at any cost", so Greyhound might as well neglect a city that hates Greyhound. After all, the general public doesn't know what the heck a G4500 is compared to a 102DL3.


Wow. That's a bit harsh against the people of Seattle and overly apologetic of Greyhound's shortcomings.

First off Greyhound abandoned routes up here in the Northwest (including Seattle to Chicago)... that doesn't do much to endear yourself to people. Granted, those were the old, bad days of a company that's still trying to improve but they still don't run a Seattle to Chicago route, instead contracting it out to Jefferson Lines.

Yes, Seattle is an affluent city but it also has a lot of people who are open minded about transportation. For proof of that, I point to the success of Greyhound's BoltBus routes here in the PNW. If Greyhound wanted that success for its own buses it would have taken a Greyhound Express route, with lots of advertising and a new station. Instead they took the easy route and put some red paint on buses.



Swadian Hardcore said:


> Greyhound Vancouver has a much better reputation for some reason, so Greyhound is piling their best buses into Vancouver Garage.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Greyhound Canada determines what fleet runs out of Vancouver... so wouldn't they be responsible for piling THEIR best buses into Vancouver.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Don't tell me Seattle is open-minded about transportation. BoltBus does not have the bad brand history that Greyhound has. Greyhound thought the G4500 would be great for Seattle-Chicago, so they put then on it, but they burned up, and passengers fled, so Greyhound cut the route. But later when Greyhound restarted it with DL3's, ridership was still very low, so Greyhound cut it again. Now Greyhound still has a bad relationship with any affluent people because of their bad brand history.

Even worse are people that think Greyhound is bad because they have historically carried many blacks, while Amtrak has historically carried more whites. Don't you try to say racism isn't present in the US.

And Greyhound Canada is headed by David Leach, the same President that heads Greyhound US. In fact, David Leach is a Canadian. So Leach does have a BIG say in which buses go where, and it's no surprise he sent better buses to his home country.


----------



## rickycourtney

You just made my point for me... Greyhound decided it was easier to create a new brand than repair its "bad brand history."


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## rrdude

Okay, I have scanned this entire thread, and am still curious as to why Greyhound, or all intercity bus operations, didn't relocate to the refurbished Seattle King St., Station. I am ignorant of the Seattle King St., Station. So would like from one of those who is knowledgeable, a quick explanation of why intercity buses were not made part of the Refurbished King St., Station. Thank you.


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## rickycourtney

As I understand it… The City of Seattle approached Greyhound and asked if they wanted to move into King Street station. Greyhound scoffed at the proposal.

I assume that the city would have wanted Greyhound to pay for part of the restoration and building five or six bus bays at the station (buses just stop in a loop outside right now) and Greyhound didn't want to spend any money.

What Greyhound didn't know at the time was that just a few months later their building in downtown Seattle would be sold and they would be forced to move.

Adding bus bays to King Street station while it was already torn up would have been relatively easy... but doing it now that the restoration is finished would be a challenge and possibly more expensive than building this new station.

It's a shame for passengers because King Street station is definitely a much more grand place to wait to catch train or a bus and having both Greyhound and Amtrak together under one roof may have provided enough passenger traffic to get a higher level of amenities (currently both stations only have a couple of vending machines.)


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## CHamilton

Bolt Bus stops directly across the pedestrian walkway on 5th Avenue. One could argue that Greyhound is trying to get the benefit of KSS without paying for it, but I imagine that they get more passengers from the transit buses on 4th Avenue and Jackson Street. Of course, any Greyhound passenger who wants to use light rail -- and there will be lots more when the extension to the University District opens in 2016 -- can now get off at Stadium station rather than International District/Chinatown. I doubt that they're getting many passengers from Sounder commuter trains.

I suspect, however, that both Amtrak and Greyhound are happy with the way things turned out. KSS gets pretty busy with just Amtrak passengers, and it would have required some fairly major surgery to add bus bays--I suspect they would have had to take a chunk of space from the stadium parking lot to do so, which, no doubt, would have cost more than Greyhound was willing to pay. And Amtrak station personnel doesn't have to deal with the bus passengers.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


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## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


Source?


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## Swadian Hardcore

rickycourtney said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
Click to expand...

GTE from back when I was a lurker. And it's easy to understand: Greyhound stacked their worst buses in Seattle, laid off drivers, and cut schedules. Do you think a company would do their worst to a place that does not make the worst profits?


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## Green Maned Lion

I think there are a lot of companies that run themselves badly and make bad decisions.


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## rickycourtney

Swadian Hardcore said:


> rickycourtney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> GTE from back when I was a lurker. And it's easy to understand: Greyhound stacked their worst buses in Seattle, laid off drivers, and cut schedules. Do you think a company would do their worst to a place that does not make the worst profits?
Click to expand...

Something you saw long ago from an unofficial source doesn't seem very reliable to me.

As GML said, if ridership is bad, it's bad due to decisions on the part of Greyhound.

That being said the company is finally making some good decisions in this part of the country. This new station (as unimpressive as it is) is an improvement over the old, rundown station, that's good. Greyhound has started the slow process of refurbishing the old buses, that's good too. Also (as much as you may not like it) the company HAS spent a lot of money and dedicated a lot of resources in the PNW launching BoltBus (on par with the resources given to the Greyhound Express route between Dallas & Houston). That decision appears to have paid dividends... the BoltBus route is popular, well liked and appears to have taken a bite out of ridership on the Cascades.

I prefer taking trains... but all things considered I would take BoltBus again as long as the schedules are better and the price is right. Hell, I'd take "the new Greyhound" if the company could guarantee that I would be riding on a refurbished bus but it sounds like it will still be a while until that happens.


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## Swadian Hardcore

When I left Seattle, there were tons of DL3's there. Why did Greyhound pull away the DL3's? I'm think Greyhound just gave up on Seattle and used the G4500's as a link between Portland and Vancouver. Denver-Portland is mainly a DL3 route.

Ricky, you just proved my point for me. The fact that Greyhound introduced BoltBus to Seattle is because they failed to earn money there.

What happened is basically this: Greyhound had tons of DL3's in Seattle, whichattracted the more affluent people because they have always been comfortable. Then Greyhound thought the G4500 would be better so they introduced a few G4500's to Seattle, which worsened Greyhound's reputation enough that no affluent people wanted to ride Greyhound, and there were not enough poor in Seattle to make a profit.

So Greyhound, near bankrupt at the time (2004), decided to just give up Seattle and focus on places with better profits. They pulled away the DL3's and sent more G4500's to Seattle. Then the DL3's went through the first round of upgrades, at the expense of customer service. They beefed up other routes where reputation was not spoiled by G4500's yet. With poor ridership, Greyhound went through huge cuts in Seattle.

Then in 2012, Greyhound decided to tackle the thorn in their side, Seattle, with BoltBus. With X3-45's and an orange livery, it quickly gained popularity. Meanwhile, Greyhound was busy upgrading elsewhere in places where the "Greyhound" name could still make money. It was not until October 2013 that Greyhound has stopped neglecting Seattle. But a few weeks from now, starting June 25th, Greyhound will introduce Los Angeles-Vancouver replacing many Seattle-based skeds, meaning Seattle will not longer be the base of the PNW; the new base is Vancouver.


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## rickycourtney

Sorry to bump an ancient thread...



rickycourtney said:


> Parking will be incredibly limited at this new station. In the tiny lot in front of the station there are 4 spots marked for 1 hour parking (I think at least 2 of these spots will be dedicated to Greyhound Package Express). In small parking lot across the street from the station there are 3 spots for taxi's to wait, 6 spots dedicated to employee parking and 6 spots for 30 minute customer parking.


Well that didnt last long. The incredibly limited parking is now even more limited.The parking lot across the street appears to now be used as a staging lot for construction project.

That said, in the 3 or so years since this station opened, Ive never once seen a taxi waiting in the cab stand and I only rarely saw people parked in that lot to pick up a passenger.


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