# Boarding and alighting



## SomeArt (Jul 6, 2022)

How the passengers get on the coaches they appointed to stay? Do the coaches have let the passengers to recognise? Could they find the position of coach on the platform?

When the train arrives the destination, how the passengers get off if the platform is more shorter than the train? 

Thank you.


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## amtkstn (Jul 6, 2022)

What station and train?


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## joelkfla (Jul 6, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> How the passengers get on the coaches they appointed to stay? Do the coaches have let the passengers to recognise? Could they find the position of coach on the platform?
> 
> When the train arrives the destination, how the passengers get off if the platform is more shorter than the train?
> 
> Thank you.


If you have a sleeper room, the car number & room number will be on your e-ticket. The car number is displayed in a small lighted window next to the door (not to be confused with the physical car number near the ends of the car). Any Amtrak employee on the platform or at a car door will happily direct you to the right car.






If you buy a coach ticket, seats are not assigned, except for business class on some trains. An Amtrak employee will direct you to a coach car, and the employee at the car door may direct you to a specific seat or tell you what area of the car to sit in.

When approaching a station, there will usually be an announcement telling which car doors will open, and asking deboarding passengers to move to that car. If it's nighttime when there are no announcements, the conductor or car attendant should find passengers getting off and personally notify them. There's a "seat check" ticket that the conductor places over your seat that says where you're getting off, and the conductor or car attendant will try to keep track of where passengers for each station are sitting. If you change seats, it's important to take your seat check with you, and notify the car attendant if you're getting off at night or at a small station.

If the train is very long and the platform is too short, the train may make 2 or 3 stops at the station. When this happens, usually there will be one stop for coach passengers and another for sleeper passengers.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> If you have a sleeper room, the car number & room number will be on your e-ticket. The car number is displayed in a small lighted window next to the door (not to be confused with the physical car number near the ends of the car). Any Amtrak employee on the platform or at a car door will happily direct you to the right car.
> View attachment 28795
> 
> 
> ...


On the Northeast Regional, business class is the last car of the train, and seats are assigned. Boarding the rest of the train is more or less a free-for-all, just pick your car and find an empty seat. Things seem to be similar on the Pacific Surfliner, Empire Service and Keystone/Pennsylvanian, but I'm not sure which end the business class is found, and the Keystones don't have business class, anyway. Also the same on the Hiawatha, and they don't have business class, either. I suspect this is the case for all the corridor trains.


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## SomeArt (Jul 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> If the train is very long and the platform is too short, the train may make 2 or 3 stops at the station. When this happens, usually there will be one stop for coach passengers and another for sleeper passengers.


Any examples?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 6, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Any examples?


The Capitol Limited at Harper's Ferry


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## zephyr17 (Jul 6, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Any examples?


Coast Starlight at Chemult
Sunset at Maricopa
Builder at Browning.

Lots of places with short platforms or just little pads.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Coast Starlight at Chemult
> Sunset at Maricopa
> Builder at Browning.
> 
> Lots of places with short platforms or just little pads.


Lots of the Stops on the Eagle/Sunset Route have to do multiple Spots due to Short Platforms .( on the Eagle it's when they run the Regular consist which was 7-8 Cars before the idiotic decision to run a 4 Car consist! )


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## SomeArt (Jul 7, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Coast Starlight at Chemult
> Sunset at Maricopa
> Builder at Browning.
> 
> Lots of places with short platforms or just little pads.


Should the platform extend? I think Amtrak platform should have at least 1000ft, let the passengers on most of the train can get off directly in one stop, from the coach they stayed. The Connecting US should include that.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 7, 2022)

Many small town platforms are very short. While I do not disagree with you, even many recently refurbished small town platforms are still very short.

I am just glad there's a platform, some, like Lordsburg, NM just use a grade crossing. It is what it is. Double spots aren't really that big of a deal.


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## SomeArt (Jul 7, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> If you have a sleeper room, the car number & room number will be on your e-ticket. The car number is displayed in a small lighted window next to the door (not to be confused with the physical car number near the ends of the car). Any Amtrak employee on the platform or at a car door will happily direct you to the right car.
> View attachment 28795
> 
> 
> If you buy a coach ticket, seats are not assigned, except for business class on some trains. An Amtrak employee will direct you to a coach car, and the employee at the car door may direct you to a specific seat or tell you what area of the car to sit in.


Does the passengers be arranged to sit at some cars that near the door for get off?


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## pennyk (Jul 8, 2022)

Where passengers are seated depends on the particular train. I assume you are referring to coach. On some trains, passengers can sit wherever they choose. On other trains, an attendant will assign seats. Usually an announcement is made shortly before the train will arrive at a station. It is quite common, at that time, passengers will gather their belongings and head towards the doors. 
I mainly travel in sleepers on long distance trains, so someone else may have to chime in. I believe in instances where all doors will not open at a station stop, there will be an announcement as to which doors will open. I have seen passengers in coach line up at the doors waiting to alight the train.


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## Rasputin (Jul 8, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Should the platform extend? I think Amtrak platform should have at least 1000ft, let the passengers on most of the train can get off directly in one stop, from the coach they stayed. The Connecting US should include that.


I don't find that it is a significant enough problem that it should warrant a large expenditure. The speed of detraining or entraining is not much of an issue.


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## joelkfla (Jul 8, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Does the passengers be arranged to sit at some cars that near the door for get off?


It's up to the conductor to manage seating. Yes, sometimes they will direct passengers to a particular car based on their destination, but not always. I think it's more likely if there are stops scheduled in the middle of the night, or stations where they plan to open just one door. Sometimes they may try to fill up one car and keep another car empty for passengers boarding at a later station. They may also tell single riders to share a row so there are empty rows available for groups boarding later.

As someone said earlier, on major corridors like between Boston & Washington, if you're on a "corridor train" (which is basically a long distance commuter train), you can usually sit wherever you want and they typically open all doors.


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## Cal (Jul 8, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> It's up to the conductor to manage seating.


On LD trains I believe coach attendants handle seating more-so than conductors.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 8, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Does the passengers be arranged to sit at some cars that near the door for get off?


They know what doors will open at stops they don't open all of them. You will be directed to sit in a coach that will have a door opened at your destination.


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## BalmyZephyr (Jul 9, 2022)

On the trains with platforms level with the train doors, there is often no conductor to ask. When we took the (new) sleeper southbound from Kingston RI one night last December, we had no idea where the sleeper car was and there was no one to ask. We fumbled through the coach cars at 11 PM looking for it. Finally we heard an attendant calling, "Where are my sleepers" meaning us. Then when we took too long to move through the cars (one of us is slightly handicapped), we got yelled at by the attendant. NOT a good start. If there is an attendant inside the station, or on the platform, you can ask them where the X car stops. They don't always know exactly, but usually it's close.


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## joelkfla (Jul 9, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> On the trains with platforms level with the train doors, there is often no conductor to ask. When we took the (new) sleeper southbound from Kingston RI one night last December, we had no idea where the sleeper car was and there was no one to ask. We fumbled through the coach cars at 11 PM looking for it. Finally we heard an attendant calling, "Where are my sleepers" meaning us. Then when we took too long to move through the cars (one of us is slightly handicapped), we got yelled at by the attendant. NOT a good start. If there is an attendant inside the station, or on the platform, you can ask them where the X car stops. They don't always know exactly, but usually it's close.


Maybe this will help:

On single-level trains, Viewliner Sleepers & the Diner are box-shaped, while the coaches are tubular. Sleepers and the Diner will both have a double row of windows, either the full length of the car or half the length. Sleepers have the door at one end; the Diner has the door in the center. Again, there is a small window near the door showing the car number (which should be lighted), and the words "Sleeping Car" should be somewhere near the door.

On bilevel trains, Superliner Sleepers have 4 windows on the lower level: 3 together on one side of the door, and a single window on the other side. Other cars have fewer windows all on one side of the door, or no lower level windows. Again, "Sleeper' or "Sleeping Car" should be near the door, along with a small window displaying the car number.


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## BalmyZephyr (Jul 9, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Sleepers have the door at one end; the Diner has the door in the center.


In our case, it was a Northeast Regional, with a Cafe car, not a diner. That has doors at either end.
Anyway, we didn't have much time to look at car labels before boarding, just a few seconds really.
There should be a conductor sticking their head out at every such stop, so you can at least call to them "Which way is the sleeper?" and go the correct direction once inside. But your advice sounds good for most trains, especially the lines of windows, shoulda thought of that.


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## jis (Jul 9, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> In our case, it was a Northeast Regional, with a Cafe car, not a diner. That has doors at either end.
> Anyway, we didn't have much time to look at car labels before boarding, just a few seconds really.
> There should be a conductor sticking their head out at every such stop, so you can at least call to them "Which way is the sleeper?" and go the correct direction once inside. But your advice sounds good for most trains, especially the lines of windows, shoulda thought of that.


Right you are. Amfleet I Food Service cars have vestibules (doors) at both ends. 65/66/67.which apparently was the service you were using is indeed a NE Regional train. It used to have a Sleeper. It does not anymore when it resumes running in a couple of days (July 11).

The Amfleet II Cafe/Lounges have vestibule (door) only at one end. They are generally used on long distance trains.

In your case, that attendant you mentioned should have been the one on the platform looking for his Sleeper Passengers, not just asking about them inside the train. Additionally, the Conductor should have known about the boarding and helped in the process in the middle of the night instead of acting like a vanilla Regional Conductor. But that is NEC for you.


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## BalmyZephyr (Jul 9, 2022)

jis said:


> Right you are. Amfleet I Food Service cars have vestibules (doors) at both ends. 65/66/67.which apparently was the service you were using is indeed a NE Regional train. It used to have a Sleeper. It does not anymore when it resumes running in a couple of days (July 11).
> 
> The Amfleet II Cafe/Lounges have vestibule (door) only at one end. They are generally used on long distance trains.
> 
> In your case, that attendant you mentioned should have been the one on the platform looking for his Sleeper Passengers, not just asking about them inside the train. Additionally, the Conductor should have known about the boarding and helped in the process in the middle of the night instead of acting like a vanilla Regional Conductor. But that is NEC for you.


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## BalmyZephyr (Jul 9, 2022)

Sorry for accidental post above.
And, sorry to hear the sleeper didn't pan out on the NEC. That was a great way to get from New England to Washington and have breakfast in Union Station before boarding the Cardinal! Plus, free parking (for days) at KIN.


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## jis (Jul 9, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Sorry for accidental post above.
> And, sorry to hear the sleeper didn't pan out on the NEC. That was a great way to get from New England to Washington and have breakfast in Union Station before boarding the Cardinal! Plus, free parking (for days) at KIN.


It might eventually return when Amtrak manages to get more Viewliners out of mothballs, or get the ones outside actually in a serviceable form with adequate staffing to do so in a steady state.

But coming back to boarding, I am not sure that the staff handling corridor Regionals are adequately trained to handle Sleepers and that is what caused your problem.

Whenever I have boarded on LD trains in Sleeper on the NEC stops, I have always found the SCA standing at the door looking around for customers headed to his/her car.


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## BalmyZephyr (Jul 9, 2022)

<< Whenever I have boarded on LD trains in Sleeper on the NEC stops, I have always found the SCA standing at the door looking around for customers headed to his/her car. >>

That only works if you're heading the right direction!


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## joelkfla (Jul 9, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> In our case, it was a Northeast Regional, with a Cafe car, not a diner. That has doors at either end.


Maybe I wasn't clear, but I meant to look at the shape of the car and the double rows of windows first for single-level trains. The door location was to rule out Viewliner diners.


BalmyZephyr said:


> There should be a conductor sticking their head out at every such stop, so you can at least call to them "Which way is the sleeper?" and go the correct direction once inside.


I fully agree.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 10, 2022)

jis said:


> Whenever I have boarded on LD trains in Sleeper on the NEC stops, I have always found the SCA standing at the door looking around for customers headed to his/her car.


Not just the sleepers, the coach attendants are standing at the doors, too, so they can direct you to the correct car for your destination.


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## rookzie (Jul 10, 2022)

Yes, the outward appearance of cars would be clues for those familiar with contemporary single-level sleeping cars on non-Canadian trains.

Thing is, the external shape of the cars ─ whether it be the curved sides of the Amfleets or the distinctive bevel and stacked windows of the Viewliners ─ should be a Total Separation of concern for ANY passenger boarding a train. In BalmyZephyr's situation, it can be and often has been stressful for passengers who are clueless to the platform position of sleeping cars, when no staff is present to observe oncoming passengers. And the fact that BalmyZephyr's gang got yelled at, as they were fumbling their way through the cars, is totally unacceptable. I would have gotten that staff badge name and filed a formal complaint.

No passenger EVER should be subjected to that kind of abject behavior. It wasn't as if the passengers did anything out of misconduct, which in turn would warrant some firm and assertive warning.


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## Rasputin (Jul 10, 2022)

Interesting situation with entraining and detraining from No. 3 at Flagstaff this morning. The regular (north) station track was evidently out of service and No. 3 had to use the south track and load and unload passengers, etc. car by car using the San Francisco Street crossing.

No. 3 arrived at 8:34 a.m. and made 8 stops at the crossing as follows:

First stop to load and unload baggage.
Second stop for the lead sleeper.
Third stop for the second sleeper.
Fourth stop to unload trash from the dining car.
Fifth stop to unload what appeared to be a modest-sized piece of cardboard from the SSL.
Sixth stop for lead coach.
Seventh stop for second coach.
Eighth stop for the third coach.

The train departed at 8:56 a.m. 

In the days not that long ago before there was such a thing as ballast paranoia, this would have been accomplished much quicker.


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## joelkfla (Jul 10, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Interesting situation with entraining and detraining from No. 3 at Flagstaff this morning. The regular (north) station track was evidently out of service and No. 3 had to use the south track and load and unload passengers, etc. car by car using the San Francisco Street crossing.
> 
> No. 3 arrived at 8:34 a.m. and made 8 stops at the crossing as follows:
> 
> ...


I can understand not wanting to unload passengers on ballast for safety reasons.

But conductors walk on ballast as part of their job. I don't see why an AC couldn't have unloaded the trash from the diner, and especially a single folded piece of cardboard(!) from the SSL, while the conductor was loading passengers in the 1st coach at the crossing. Or just toss the empty box out the door and let someone pick it up!


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## Rasputin (Jul 10, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I can understand not wanting to unload passengers on ballast for safety reasons.
> 
> But conductors walk on ballast as part of their job. I don't see why an AC couldn't have unloaded the trash from the diner, and especially a single folded piece of cardboard(!) from the SSL, while the conductor was loading passengers in the 1st coach at the crossing. Or just toss the empty box out the door and let someone pick it up!


Yes I have seen the Southwest Chief use the south track before with only two or three stops made at the San Francisco Street crossing. As I recall, the dining car trash was carried across the ballast and left on the platform. This may have been during the pandemic when the passenger load was rather light.


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## tomfuller (Jul 12, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Should the platform extend? I think Amtrak platform should have at least 1000ft, let the passengers on most of the train can get off directly in one stop, from the coach they stayed. The Connecting US should include that.


My profile picture shows the "waiting room" for my home station in Chemult Oregon. Often there are no sleeping car passengers boarding or alighting from the Coast Starlight at CMO. There are usually less than 10 people getting off or getting on northbound or southbound. There was a lot of money spent building the "waiting room" and extending the platform with lighting and heated sidewalk for winter use. The platform in the old "Amshack" days was about half the length that it is now.


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## SomeArt (Jul 13, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Interesting situation with entraining and detraining from No. 3 at Flagstaff this morning. The regular (north) station track was evidently out of service and No. 3 had to use the south track and load and unload passengers, etc. car by car using the San Francisco Street crossing.
> 
> No. 3 arrived at 8:34 a.m. and made 8 stops at the crossing as follows:
> 
> ...


If the platform has 1000ft, the train maybe depart at 8:39！


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## Rasputin (Jul 13, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> If the platform has 1000ft, the train maybe depart at 8:39！


I do not know the length of the platform beside the north track but it seems to be adequate. It would certainly be possible to make the entire area in the front of the station into a level platform which would allow easy use of both tracks. However, I suspect that it would involve considerable expense which may not be justifiable if the south track is only used once or twice a year.


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## Cal (Jul 13, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> If the platform has 1000ft, the train maybe depart at 8:39！


It wasn’t due to platform length, it was because they arrived on a track without a platform and had to use the grade crossing as a platform


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## SomeArt (Jul 13, 2022)

Cal said:


> It wasn’t due to platform length, it was because they arrived on a track without a platform and had to use the grade crossing as a platform


Is it common for Amtrak to use level crossing for stopping? Do they mull over that it may block the emergency vehicle?


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## zephyr17 (Jul 13, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Is it common for Amtrak to use level crossing for stopping? Do they mull over that it may block the emergency vehicle?


There are some very minor stops that are very short that the grade crossing is the stop. Lordsburg, NM comes to mind. In that case the very brief stop opening only one door probably occupies the crossing for less time than a long freight train.

The situation described in Flagstaff is different. There are two main tracks there and only one has a platform. Due to operational conditions, the train could not be routed on the track with the platform. Flagstaff is a busy stop, so there had to be multiple spots and it took a long time. Such a situation does not happen often.


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## Rasputin (Jul 13, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> Is it common for Amtrak to use level crossing for stopping? Do they mull over that it may block the emergency vehicle?


It is not common for Amtrak to use the San Francisco Street crossing in Flagstaff for loading and unloading but it happens perhaps once or twice a year when the north track with the platform is out of service for some reason.

However even when the Southwest Chief uses the north track with the platform, it normally blocks San Francisco Street during the stop. There are other streets which remain open for use by emergency vehicles including a highway underpass a short distance away which is not blocked by trains.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Jul 14, 2022)

Although I never thought my hometown (Dwight, IL) needed a new Amtrak station when the tracks were upgraded to accommodate high-speed rail, I have noticed that the platform at the new station is considerably longer than the one at the historic old station. (Plus no competing for parking spaces near the station with downtown business customers & employees, which was always an issue at the old station.)


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## MARC Rider (Jul 14, 2022)

The Vermonter also blocks a grade crossing when it stops at Brattleboro, VT. I don't think that people actually board or alight on the grade crossing, as the station has a decent platform, but the train still blocks the crossing.


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## pennyk (Jul 14, 2022)

The Silvers generally block a fairly busy intersection in Winter Park - sometimes for over a few minutes (if the train is early or if a passenger needs the lift). Motorists in "toney" Winter Park generally do not enjoy being delayed by "the train."


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 14, 2022)

Although there is a New Platform @ the Historic Alpine,TX Statio Unstaffed), it is not long enough for the Sunset Ltd. so on the 3 days a week that #1 anx #2 Run, the Grade Crossing by the Station( the Main one in town and the Gsteway to Big Bend National Park) is blocked for 20-30 Minutes as the Sunset changes Crews and does 2 Spots, 1 for the #1/ #2 Section and 1 for the #421/#422 Thru Cars.


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## jis (Jul 14, 2022)

pennyk said:


> The Silvers generally block a fairly busy intersection in Winter Park - sometimes for over a few minutes (if the train is early or if a passenger needs the lift). Motorists in "toney" Winter Park generally do not enjoy being delayed by "the train."


However, there really are several other crossing that are not blocked that are available to get around the blocked crossing.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 14, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Although there is a New Platform @ the Historic Alpine,TX Statio Unstaffed), it is not long enough for the Sunset Ltd. so on the 3 days a week that #1 anx #2 Run, the Grade Crossing by the Station( the Main one in town and the Gsteway to Big Bend National Park) is blocked for 20-30 Minutes as the Sunset changes Crews and does 2 Spots, 1 for the #1/ #2 Section and 1 for the #421/#422 Thru Cars.


Like this! I was in the 421 Sleeper headed back to LA.


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## SomeArt (Jul 15, 2022)

pennyk said:


> The Silvers generally block a fairly busy intersection in Winter Park - sometimes for over a few minutes (if the train is early or if a passenger needs the lift). Motorists in "toney" Winter Park generally do not enjoy being delayed by "the train."


The road just bisect the station. Why don’t replace the road as flyover or tunnel?


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## jis (Jul 15, 2022)

SomeArt said:


> The road just bisect the station. Why don’t replace the road as flyover or tunnel?


It is unnecessary since there is an unblocked crossing less than a 1000 feet down the line. No one will put a flyover in the middle of a lovely downtown shopping center in a park-like setting with many walking paths. Indeed the right thing to do might be to simply make it a pedestrian only crossing.


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