# N.M. Rail Runner to lose weekend service



## bobnabq (Jun 17, 2011)

*The Rail Runner will start taking weekends off*


----------



## DET63 (Jun 21, 2011)

From the article linked above:



> The board had been considering two weekday schedule options to address the budget reduction, but in a six-to-five vote earlier today, board members instead took action to eliminate weekend service to balance the Fiscal Year 2012 Federal budget.
> “This was originally envisioned as a commuter service, and that’s the piece we want to maintain without affecting anybody”, said Steve Shaw, Chairman of the Rio Metro Board. “While we recognize the weekend service from a tourism and convenience point of view, we think it’s more important to support the initial mission of the train without affecting the people who use it to get to and from work.”


Sounds like a very wise decision given the constraints the board faced.


----------



## MikefromCrete (Jun 21, 2011)

DET63 said:


> From the article linked above:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Given that the new governor would like to shut down the service completely, it probably the best that could be done.


----------



## bretton88 (Jun 21, 2011)

MikefromCrete said:


> DET63 said:
> 
> 
> > From the article linked above:
> ...


Nah, the governor wanted to see if there was a way to make it less of a money loser because it bleeds money. They really need to address the insanely cheap fares that this train has. Maybe move it closer to 10$ each way for ABQ-Santa Fe. That would help the bottom line and probably not chase away riders.


----------



## AlanB (Jun 21, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> They really need to address the insanely cheap fares that this train has. Maybe move it closer to 10$ each way for ABQ-Santa Fe. That would help the bottom line and probably not chase away riders.


Agreed the fares are way too low. One can ride from Sante Fe through ABQ to Belan, a distance of about 90 miles for just $8.

It costs me $5 (off peak) to go from Woodside to Penn Station, a distance of just shy of 5 miles.


----------



## Anderson (Jun 21, 2011)

AlanB said:


> bretton88 said:
> 
> 
> > They really need to address the insanely cheap fares that this train has. Maybe move it closer to 10$ each way for ABQ-Santa Fe. That would help the bottom line and probably not chase away riders.
> ...


Even taking the VRE in from Fredericksburg to Washington is a bit over $10 one way, and a bit under that for Alexandria. Such covers about a 40-45 mile trip...so yes, I think $10 is _far _too low for ABQ-Belan. The solution might be a set of staged hikes (partly to engage in a bit of "price discovery" and partly to not scare people away), but yes...those fares do need to go up.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 22, 2011)

MikefromCrete said:


> Given that the new governor would like to shut down the service completely, it probably the best that could be done.


This was the dream of the outgoing governor. There are plenty more budget cuts where that one came from. I give this line at most five more years of steadily dropping frequency and service.


----------



## Trogdor (Jun 22, 2011)

One thing to keep in mind when comparing fares is the economic situation of the area. New York and DC can charge high fares for short distances and people out there will pay them. New Mexico is different from New York.

Raise the fares and people may abandon the service altogether. Not that there's that much ridership in the first place.


----------



## Nexis4Jersey (Jun 24, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> One thing to keep in mind when comparing fares is the economic situation of the area. New York and DC can charge high fares for short distances and people out there will pay them. New Mexico is different from New York.
> 
> Raise the fares and people may abandon the service altogether. Not that there's that much ridership in the first place.


They should push large Scales Rail Orientated developments around there stations like the Denver , Salt Lake City and San Diego regions have done. Which boosts Ridership higher and bring in more revenue , currently there is very little around the stations. ROD doesn't require alot , just some re-zoning....


----------



## TVRM610 (Jul 10, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> One thing to keep in mind when comparing fares is the economic situation of the area. New York and DC can charge high fares for short distances and people out there will pay them. New Mexico is different from New York.
> 
> Raise the fares and people may abandon the service altogether. Not that there's that much ridership in the first place.


An average of 4,400 riders per weekday is "not much ridership"?

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/localnews/N-M--Rail-Runner-ridership-increases


----------



## Trogdor (Jul 11, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> An average of 4,400 riders per weekday is "not much ridership"?
> 
> http://www.santafenewmexican.com/localnews/N-M--Rail-Runner-ridership-increases


For a commuter rail service, no.


----------



## Rail Freak (Jul 11, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > An average of 4,400 riders per weekday is "not much ridership"?
> ...


What would be a weekday ridership average for a comparible distance in Chicago?


----------



## Trogdor (Jul 11, 2011)

Santa Fe to Belen is about 90 or so miles, end to end.

The longest single Metra route is the UP NW line, which carries 40,000 people per weekday on a route 70 miles long.

The weakest route is the Heritage Corridor, with 2,600 per weekday at 37 miles. However, the Heritage Corridor's biggest stop, Joliet, is much better served by the Rock Island route (which carries 30,000 per day).

The difference here, though, is that the Heritage Corridor (and the North Central, which is also pretty weak, at 5,400 people) are tiny portions of an overall system that carries 300,000 passengers per day. Those routes, with those numbers, if they operated on their own, wouldn't make much sense.

http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/about_metra/planning_records_reports/ridership_reports.html


----------



## TVRM610 (Jul 11, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> The difference here, though, is that the Heritage Corridor (and the North Central, which is also pretty weak, at 5,400 people) are tiny portions of an overall system that carries 300,000 passengers per day. Those routes, with those numbers, if they operated on their own, wouldn't make much sense.
> 
> http://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/about_metra/planning_records_reports/ridership_reports.html


So what are you saying? That the Railrunner doesn't make sense because it's not part of a bigger system? I see your logic, but I don't understand your point.

I think a young start-up system seeing 4,400 a day is great!


----------



## MikefromCrete (Jul 11, 2011)

Given the difference in population, the Rail Runner seems to be doing OK. It's a start up operation. I think the Nashville/Music City Star is behind the RAil Runner in passengers. There's more people living in the Heritage and North Central suburbs than in all of New Mexico.

Chicago commuter rail has been around for more than 100 years, so train riding is part of the local culture. It will take a decade or so for New Mexicans to make the train part of their daily lives.


----------



## MikefromCrete (Jul 11, 2011)

A quick check of population figures show 9.5 million people in Chicago Metropolitan area (which includes parts of Indiana and Wisconsin) versus 1.9 million in New Mexico, so I may have overstated the Heritage and North Central populations, but considering that the RAil Runner has only been in business for what 4-5 years, it's not a bad start.


----------



## gswager (Jul 12, 2011)

RailRunner may be unique because the corridor is along Rio Grande valley, not spread out. They could do it but it has to find water to sustain its growth in desert area. I-25 cuts through several Indian reservations and it has two lanes each way. Indian reservations will not accept federal/state gov't request for widen the freeway. Imagining ABQ residents heading to Santa Fe for jobs at once on those 4 lanes I-25. Plus, NM culture is vastly different than other areas.

I think RailRunner is not too bad with those passengers count.


----------



## Trogdor (Jul 12, 2011)

The question was whether 4,400 people per day counts as "much ridership." The answer is that it doesn't.

I know that populations are different, and I know that trains have more of a history in Chicago (I'm not even the person that raised the comparison with Chicago). But still, 4,400 people per day isn't a lot of ridership. The cost recovery on the system is horrible. That probably means that the corridor isn't a good one for commuter rail service.


----------



## ttdeluxe (Jul 12, 2011)

I became curious about ridership per run, so I crunched some numbers. Some of the ridership data is a little older because I got tired of digging for up to date info. If the numbers are way off please correct me.

Total weekday ridership/total number of weekday runs(all runs were counted, including shortened runs)

UP NW-625

Rail runner-375

Music City Star-250

Frontrunner-82

tri rail-197

Heritage Corridor-433

South Shore-273

Sounder-420

Northstar-175

Trinity Railway Express-177


----------



## gswager (Jul 12, 2011)

You may be right, depending on how passengers per train. If there's too little passengers on trains, then it should cut back the number of trains. 4,400 people per day on how many trips (number of train schedule) per day?


----------



## The Journalist (Jul 12, 2011)

I've heard on here and other places that RailRunner is nonsensically inexpensive, which makes its farebox recovery horrible-did they look at raising fares as well?

In other news, one of the infill stations is apparently moving forward...at a glacial pace: Link. Also of note in that link: Santa Fe wants weekend service kept and is looking at subsidizing it themselves.


----------



## MikefromCrete (Jul 12, 2011)

ttdeluxe said:


> I became curious about ridership per run, so I crunched some numbers. Some of the ridership data is a little older because I got tired of digging for up to date info. If the numbers are way off please correct me.
> 
> Total weekday ridership/total number of weekday runs(all runs were counted, including shortened runs)
> 
> ...


Based on this analysis, RailRunner looks much better than the other new starts.


----------



## Train2104 (Jul 12, 2011)

gswager said:


> You may be right, depending on how passengers per train. If there's too little passengers on trains, then it should cut back the number of trains. 4,400 people per day on how many trips (number of train schedule) per day?


http://nmrailrunner....01-31-11pdf.pdf

24 trains per weekday, 10 per Saturday, 4 per Sunday. 2 weekday trains will be run by buses come August.

Average of 183 people per train.


----------



## ttdeluxe (Jul 13, 2011)

That makes more sense. I was surprised that it had such great ridership per train. I forgot to multiply x2 so I only used one direction for Rail runner but both directions on all the other lines. Still on par with other one line startups.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Jul 15, 2011)

According to a post on trainorders, the Rail Runner Board has voted to continue Weekend Service to/from Santa Fe till Fall ^_^ with Saturday having a reduced schedule and some week day trains will be cut back in the fall/winter! Doesnt say if the offer from Santa Fe's Mayor to help fund the weekend service was considered or if any Fare Increase is involved?? :unsure:


----------



## Shawn Ryu (Jul 15, 2011)

MikefromCrete said:


> Given the difference in population, the Rail Runner seems to be doing OK. It's a start up operation. I think the Nashville/Music City Star is behind the RAil Runner in passengers. There's more people living in the Heritage and North Central suburbs than in all of New Mexico.
> 
> Chicago commuter rail has been around for more than 100 years, so train riding is part of the local culture. It will take a decade or so for New Mexicans to make the train part of their daily lives.


For Music City Stars did you consider the fact that it has only 5 stations and is 1/3 the length of the Rail Runner? Thats a big factor.


----------



## gswager (Jul 16, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> According to a post on trainorders, the Rail Runner Board has voted to continue Weekend Service to/from Santa Fe till Fall ^_^ with Saturday having a reduced schedule and some week day trains will be cut back in the fall/winter! Doesnt say if the offer from Santa Fe's Mayor to help fund the weekend service was considered or if any Fare Increase is involved?? :unsure:


Here's the info.


----------

