# Expansion of the Amtrak Cascades east



## Northwestern (Mar 4, 2022)

There have been, in the past, proposals to have a Cascade train expand to the east, from Seattle to Spokane. It would use the Stampede Pass and travel through such cities as Yakima and Pasco. The proposed route is in "green" in the following map:









Expand Amtrak Cascades Passenger Rail Statewide


“It’s not planning for today. This is a vision that’s planning for where the region is going to be in twenty years. If we don’t start now we’re never going to get there.” Th…




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I think it would be a great idea. It would, of course, require substantial funding from Washington state. 

The current Amtrak Empire Builder gets into Spokane after midnight, both eastbound and westbound trains. I have thought of taking the Builder from Portland to Spokane, an overnight in Spokane, then renting a car for a drive to recreational spots in WA, ID, MT, and even Canada. However, I don't want to arrive in Spokane at the post-midnight hours.

A Cascade from Seattle to Spokane could leave in the early morning and arrive, in Spokane, in the late afternoon. If you are in Yakama and Pasco, you can fly to Spokane but there are no direct flights to Spokane from those cities, at least from what I can tell. You have to go first to Seattle then Spokane, something like 3 to 3.5 hours in all. Wouldn't it be nice to hop on a Cascade train for Spokane and all points along the way. You could drive, but it could be icy roads in the winter plus many old folks, such as myself, don't like to take long car drives.

I think a Cascade train from Seattle to Spokane would be popular and gain a large ridership, especially during the summer months.

Richard


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## CHamilton (Mar 4, 2022)

Thanks for sharing this. I'm the Co-Executive Director of All Aboard Washington, the organization that has been advocating for east-west service via Stampede Pass and the Yakima Valley. For more information (and to donate to our work) please see our website at For a Connected Northwest


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## JayPea (Mar 4, 2022)

I'd be all in for this. I live an hour from Spokane and the nighttime drive to and from the station for me is the worst part of the trip. Deer and other assorted nocturnal crawling creatures are a constant threat during the drive to and from the station. I'd love a daytime route to and from Spokane.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 4, 2022)

I support this. Have not lived out there since 93-94, but yes this would be nice. That said can we get 2 round trip a day. Or 4 train a day on this route. Please give everyone a AM and PM option.


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## west point (Mar 4, 2022)

Is there still a steep grade out of the Tacoma area? Will that require 2 locos there or any location on the route?


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## Siegmund (Mar 5, 2022)

I would love to see 2 or more Seattle-Spokane round trips a day, and I agree that there may be a substantial market for Yakima/Pasco to Spokane since, as you mention, the airlines route you through Seattle. 



Northwestern said:


> I have thought of taking the Builder from Portland to Spokane, an overnight in Spokane, then renting a car for a drive to recreational spots in WA, ID, MT, and even Canada. However, I don't want to arrive in Spokane at the post-midnight hours.



In the meantime, I can recommend staying on the train until you reach Whitefish the next morning, and being able to pick up the keys to your rental car right in the station.


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## Northwestern (Mar 5, 2022)

Thanks for the interesting comments. I went to the AWAA website and made a small donation. Looks like a good organization to back. 

I tried to find an old internet article on the plans for a Seattle to Spokane train. I couldn't, but the suggestion was for 2 trains a day, in each direction. I think it would be better to have one morning train, in each direction, then consider a 2nd train if the ridership would show a 2nd train is needed.

I have taken the E. Builder to Whitefish three times. A beautiful train ride and I really did like the Amtrak station in Whitefish. Renting a car at the depot then a visit to the Stumptown Museum (old GN museum) which is also within or next door to the depot.

However, I still have been wanting a Cascade day trip to Spokane. Afterwards, exploring places such as Coeur D Alene, ID, Sandpoint, ID, and surrounding areas. Then up towards Creston, BC. Also, the historic towns of Kellogg, ID and Wallace, ID.

Old NP depot in Wallace, Idaho:





Richard


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## zephyr17 (Mar 5, 2022)

west point said:


> Is there still a steep grade out of the Tacoma area? Will that require 2 locos there or any location on the route?


The steep grade out of Tacoma is the former Milwaukee Road up the "gulch" toward Morton. What is left is a minor industrial branch now owned by Tacoma Rail, IIRC. The old MILW gulch line would not be involved in any new cross-state service, especially since it does not really go anywhere.

BNSF's former NP mainline is quite flat through Tacoma. The Stampede Pass line, which is the one proposed to be used, branches off in Auburn, has a 2.2% ruling grade IIRC, certainly steeper than Stevens, but not out of line with many other western mountain mainlines that Amtrak uses and certainly less than Raton.


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## CHamilton (Mar 6, 2022)

Northwestern said:


> Thanks for the interesting comments. I went to the AWAA website and made a small donation. Looks like a good organization to back.


Thank you so much! There have been a number of proposals over the years for east-west service, most recently (in 2020) done on behalf of the Washington legislature. You can find it, and AAWA's response on our website at East-West Cascades Passenger Service: Considerations beyond the STEER Study While we had issues with some of their conclusions, they did confirm that such service is feasible, and they found considerable interest from local communities.

As you probably know, under current law, any new service under 750 miles in length would need to be paid for by the states through which it passes. This will be a difficult sell in most states. We testified to our legislature last month to ask for support (see It’s Time to Expand the Amtrak Cascades Statewide: AAWA testimony to Washington State House Transportation Committee, February 17, 2022 ) but it's unlikely to be taken up before 2023.

Meanwhile, however, we are part of a coalition that has successfully asked the Federal Railroad Administration to conduct a study (called for in the recently-passed Bipartisan Infrastructure Law) to conduct a study of restarting service on the old North Coast Hiawatha and Pioneer lines. See Pending federal passenger rail study likely to include southern Montana route These would be national services.

Follow our activities on our Facebook Log into Facebook and Twitter https://twitter.com/AllAboardWA Again, thank you so much for your support.


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## moselman66 (Mar 9, 2022)

Are we likely to be talking the same 9+ hours to get from Seattle to Spokane via Pasco and Yakima that the route was scheduled for when last served a couple decades ago? Trains don't _need_ to approach or exceed the speed of cars to draw substantial ridership, but 4.5 hours in a car versions 9.5 hours on the train is kind of concern for attracting traffic. Hard to know exactly how long the train can take before demand truly nosedives, but this is an eyebrow raiser assuming there's no good way to substantially cut travel times.


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