# How do you guys get to Select+ so fast?



## AAARGH! (Nov 18, 2009)

I see posts about members of this board getting to Select plus by January 2nd of that year. Well that is a gross exaggeration, but I do see people get to 10,000, 20,000 and even 40,000 by mid year or faster.

So, *other than those who commute on Amtrak daily* (Chuljin), how do you guys get to select+ so darn fast? Are you really spending that much moola on Amtrak or are you taking *many* 100 point short hops?

I took 4 trips on Amtrak this year (many legs including the Gathering), none AGR rewards, only one sleeper leg, and spent a fair chunk-o-change, but am 1,200 rail points shy of even being select not to mention select+. 

So what is it? Is there a way of earning rail points of which I am not aware? Are you guys spending that much money on Amtrak, or is everybody commuting?


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## the_traveler (Nov 18, 2009)

I can't speak about Select+ (or even Select) because I'm just an AGR peon  - but there are certain "select city pairs" when using AE give you 500 AGR points in BC or 750 AGR points in FC each way! So if you do the round trip, you earn either 1,000 or 1,500 points! 5 round trips in BC or just over 3 in FC give you Select! 10 in BC or 6 2/3 in FC give you Select+!


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm just very selective in what trips I take. :lol:

Seriously though in my case, as noted by the_traveler, riding Acela is how I've always done it. The other stuff helps, a sleeper here, a BC trip there, but the bulk of my points have always come via Acela. And that's what AGR was really designed for in the first place, was to get people onto Acela and reward them for that.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 18, 2009)

Since we peons out here in flyover land dont have Acelas and lots of daily trains we have to get our points the old fashioned way, Earn them! Take advantage of all the promos, as the others have said upgrade to BC and sleepers when you can but basically I earned my points with several LD trips around the country and lots of short day trips

(ie AUS-TAY-AUS for bar-b-q) and I reached Select status and had my first AGR award trip on the KCY-CBS 1 zone loophole this month! Also used the AGR MC to pay all myy bills which gives points for trips but unfortunately not rail miles!


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## Ryan (Nov 18, 2009)

With respect to the Acela, I'm going to get over the hump with a round trip next month. Is it a problem to buy a ticket WAS-MET to take advantage of the city pair bonus but not board until BWI? I know it won't be a problem coming back, just get off the train a stop early, but I don't know how the conductor will react if I board at BWI and hand him a WAS-MET ticket.


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## DowneasterPassenger (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't commute every day. I am fortunate to have a job where I commute to the office twice a week on Amtrak San Joaquin line. That plus a couple of LD trips per year, and the rail points add up.


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## AlanB (Nov 18, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> With respect to the Acela, I'm going to get over the hump with a round trip next month. Is it a problem to buy a ticket WAS-MET to take advantage of the city pair bonus but not board until BWI? I know it won't be a problem coming back, just get off the train a stop early, but I don't know how the conductor will react if I board at BWI and hand him a WAS-MET ticket.


Unlikely that a conductor would care that you boarded in BWI. That assumes that they've even collected the tickets in that particular car by the time the train reaches BWI. But I again I don't think that any conductor would care.

Now if you boarded in Wilmington or Philly, you might get some stares and concern that you wasted your money.


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## rtabern (Dec 7, 2009)

Making Select Plus hasn't really been a problem for me the past 4 years... and I live nowhere near the NEC.

Almost all vacations I take Amtrak, but here is how I do it...

I usually use almost all my vacation time from work (3 weeks) to do an Amtrak long-distance trip out west. Let's say I spent about $1,000 per trip (average price for a round-trip roomette from CHI to SEA, EMY, or LAX)... that is 2,000 rail points right there... TIMES TWO (because usually the third trip of the year is a free AGR trip)... that is 4,000 points right there from 2 long distance trips per year.

Then, when I am down in Chicago visiting the parents, I either try and sneak in a day-trip to Springfield, IL or Galesburg, IL to do some rail antique hunting. Since there is a minimum of 100 points per trip, that means I get 200 rail points everytime I go from Chicago to SPI or GBB. On average, I do a day trip 3 times per month. So that is 600 rail points per month... times 12 months... and boom... you're at 7,200 points.

7,200 points (from my day trips) + 4,000 points (from my 2 long distance trips of the year) = OVER 10,000pts and Select Plus status for the year!!!

The biggest reason why I make sure and make Select Plus is access to the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago. Nice bathrooms, free snacks, and coffee/tea... even when just transfering between Metra trains in Chicago.


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## wayman (Dec 7, 2009)

The past two years, I hit Select only by taking a bunch of $6/100-point trips. This year, almost none of those -- almost entirely actual travel (rather than points runs), none of it work-related, only three Acela one-way trips.

Only four round-trips went outside the NEC/Keystone Corridor, though (three on the Crescent to my parents, one to Florida). So not much "exciting" travel or new mileage aside from the Florida trip. I just made more of an effort to take Amtrak to things in Washington, New York, and Boston and to use Acela judiciously where it would get me good points for low buckets. Often I'd take Amtrak one way to New York and a Mega/Bolt-bus back to economize.

January, PHL-WAS, WAS-PHL (Obama's inauguration)

February, PHL-BOS (Acela BC), BOS-NYP, NYP-WIL (literature convention in BOS, brief stop in NYC on return)

(these trips earned me two free Regional tickets, in addition to providing Rail Points towards Select)

April, PHL-WAS, WAS-NYP, NYP-PHL (back-to-back arts events in WAS and NYC)

April, NWK-BOS (to a folk festival, had rides to NYC before and from BOS-PHL afterwards)

May, PHL-NYP (to an arts event, took a bus back)

May, PHL-TPA, TPA-SRA, TPA-PHL (cousin's wedding)

June, NYP-PHL (returning from an arts event, took a bus there)

August, PHL-BOS (Acela FC with coupon) (start of complicated vacation with no further train travel)

Sept/Oct, PHL-LYH, LYH-PHL (new Regional service inauguration)

October, PHL-LYH, LYH-PHL (visiting parents)

November, PHL-LYH, LYH-PHL (visiting parents, Thanksgiving)

December, PHL-PAO, PAO-PHL (not actually a points run! went to an event in Paoli)

December, PHL-LYH, LYH-WAS, WAS-NYP (Acela BC) (visiting parents for Christmas, then NYC for a holiday party, bus back)

And I think that's it -- I'll wind up with about 5,200 Rail Points in 2009. I might take a Keystone ride or two this week, just for insurance, but I don't think I need to.

Additional Amtrak travel, which didn't get me Rail Points because it was free travel:

**June, PHL-WAS, WAS-PHL (visiting parents) (used the B2G1 tickets)

**October, PHL-NYP (arts event in NYC) (AGR coach ticket)


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## nomis (Dec 7, 2009)

Being in Philly, I've done quite a few runs out (20+) to Lancaster & Harrisburg over the summer which helped out tremendously. Not to mention an ex-gf that lived in Paoli. Some NEC trips help as well. But the past month has been point runs and I get to catch up for work and school that day on the train, something that doesn't happen when I drive.

Most recently, chuljin challenged me to get to Sel+ By Jan 25th 2010. Quite do-able except for when the Keystone Corridor looks and feels like this.


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## saxman (Dec 7, 2009)

The key is, lots of short cheap trip. Each ticket gets you a minimum of 100 rail points. It's $7-9 to ride from Dallas to Fort Worth. A round trip is 200 points and only $14 to $18. Do that once a week, and you'll get there. If you even find yourself in Chicago, do a couple trip on Hiawatha or any of the other corridor train:

One day I was in Chi-town and was going to Wisconsin Dells. I had all day to kill so I got up early and took a trip down to Joliet and back. Then took the Hiawatha to Milwuakee and caught the Builder from there. That was 400 rail points right there for not much money.

So if you ever have a layover in Chicago long enough to do a short out and back, do it. Just watch out for the maximum tickets you can use in one day. It's 4. Anything after that you won't get points. So make sure you're not taking a big expensive trip out of Chicago.


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## the_traveler (Dec 7, 2009)

saxman said:


> So if you ever have a layover in Chicago long enough to do a short out and back, do it.


Earn 200 points or have pizza - I'd have to think about that! :unsure:


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## Shanghai (Dec 8, 2009)

I usually go to Tampa each February, visit family in Indiana, attend a board meeting in Dallas and NEC trips to Boston and DC usually

put near Select Plus. Tomorrow I will do an Acela to Boston and return to reach Plus status. I'm hoping to do a Southwest Chief,

Coast Starlight, Empire Builder trip with AGR points early in 2010.


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## Phila 30th St (Dec 9, 2009)

This topic has been an interesting read for me. Especially as on Flyertalk yesterday someone wrote in the Amtrak forum that "except for the Acela it's impossible to earn over 100 points on a trip."


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## BeckysBarn (Dec 9, 2009)

Phila 30th St said:


> This topic has been an interesting read for me. Especially as on Flyertalk yesterday someone wrote in the Amtrak forum that "except for the Acela it's impossible to earn over 100 points on a trip."


I think the clue might be _Flyer_talk!  How little some of them know. I just received 500 points for SPI to CHI. That's for a ticket that cost $18. I may never get Select, much less Select +, but I do know how to take advantage of promotions.


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## PRR 60 (Dec 9, 2009)

BeckysBarn said:


> Phila 30th St said:
> 
> 
> > This topic has been an interesting read for me. Especially as on Flyertalk yesterday someone wrote in the Amtrak forum that "except for the Acela it's impossible to earn over 100 points on a trip."
> ...


The actual quote on FlyerTalk was:



> Still, the NEC--and specifically, really only Acela on qualifying city pairs--is the only place Amtrak intended to make it possible to earn a significant number of AGR points.


In my opinion, that is true. The only exception is commuting using very cheap fares earning the 100 point minimum, or the occasional double or triple points promotions.

However, for regular paid travel, you can certainly earn points not using Acela, but you pay a lot to get them. On a dollar per point basis for travel, flying Continental on a cheap fare and then transferring miles to Amtrak points is a much more cost effective way to build an AGR balance. The way AGR is set up, Amtrak travel is often the worst way to earn points.

By the way, the person who made that quote at FT not only knows Amtrak and rail travel, but is a member of this board with over 1900 posts.


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## BeckysBarn (Dec 10, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> BeckysBarn said:
> 
> 
> > Phila 30th St said:
> ...


Seeing the full quote makes all the difference. Amtrak's intention and what is actually possible can be 2 different things.


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## wayman (Dec 10, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> > Still, the NEC--and specifically, really only Acela on qualifying city pairs--is the only place Amtrak intended to make it possible to earn a significant number of AGR points.
> 
> 
> In my opinion, that is true. The only exception is commuting using very cheap fares earning the 100 point minimum, or the occasional double or triple points promotions.


I absolutely disagree...

Acela, WAS-NYP, a good BC fare is $133 for 500 AGR. The fare is ineligible for discounts (eg, AAA). That's 27 cents/AGR.

Keystone, a $6.50 ten-minute ride gets 100 AGR, and it's eligible for discount (to $5.85). That's 6 cents/AGR. And the cost/point goes even lower if you use multi-trip bookings -- you can cleverly book complicated itineraries to reduce the cost per segment to $1.95, and because all tickets are unreserved there's no requirement that you actually ride the itineraries you booked -- once you've got a stack of tickets for various Keystone city-pairs, you can use them in any order, over the year that they're valid for. This reduces the cost/point to 2 cents/AGR. More than ten times cheaper than the Acela. Similar values can be found on the Hiawatha, Surfliner, and other corridors.

Paying 2 cents/AGR, you're actually "putting money in the bank": a 3000 AGR NEC redemption for any ticket over $60 means you made money on the deal, or a 20,000 AGR 2-zone redemption for any itinerary over $400 likewise. And a trip to Ardmore means you can walk to the Trader Joe's and do some shopping while waiting for your next train; a trip to Paoli means you can walk across the street to TJ's (a pub, not another Trader Joe's) for an excellent pint or sandwich; a trip to Downingtown means you can walk about ten minutes into town to the best coffeeshop in the greater Philadelphia area. So the trips themselves don't have to be written off as "just for points", either. Heck, and last night I took the Keystone to Harrisburg for a business meeting -- even $19/100 was still a much better deal than you can find on the NEC. (All of these point values are just for Rail Points -- I'm not including the various bonuses I'm collecting on top of these.)

If your goal is to devote a day to "ride for points", the question of "which is a better value, $266/1000 points versus $7.80/400 points?" has a very easy answer, and it's not the Acela.


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## Ispolkom (Dec 11, 2009)

Wayman,

I think that the only disagreement you have with PRR 60 is a verb: if he had used the word "traveling" rather than "commuting" you'd be in complete agreement.

This is especially true given that PRR 60 was focusing on Amtrak's intentions. I can't imagine that they really want riders to gain status by short-range mileage runs.

In any case, I think that elite status in AGR has benefits only if you 1) pay for a lot of travel (then the 25% and 50% bonuses add up), and b) you can take advantage of the Club Acela benefit.

Living in fly-over country, neither pertains to me. I'm like The Traveler. It makes more sense to me to earn AGR points from non-Amtrak sources and use that for long-distance travel, so that any time I'm near a Metro Lounge or Club Acela I'm traveling by sleeper. Since I only pay for shorter travel legs, I never amass more than 2k-3k rail points in a year, even if (as this year) I travel 8000-9000 miles and spend 10-11 nights in sleepers.

Oh, if you're traveling to Downingtown you have to check out Victory Brewing. Their beers are generally first rate, and this year's Harvest Pils was phenomenal.


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## nomis (Dec 11, 2009)

Wayman, that post almost explains me to a T.

Last night featured a Business Partners Meeting which yielded me 1450-1500 pts & 200 for the company for the evening. 2x100 Base, 2x500 AGR Referrals, 2x100 Fall Promo & 2x25 or 2x50 Sel/Sel+ Bonus (depending on when they post), along with 8x25 AGR for Business points. We decided to venture out of CCP so Paoli and TJ's was a thought of mine. A great filling dinner with a couple of Brother Thelonious made for a productive evening.

I see more value in $13/200 than the $266/1000 which is only achievable from home if I travel to BOS or up to MET to go down to WAS (more cost/more points, but i would rather take NJT than Amtk to get there). And I have used 30th St as a commuting transfer station for the past 5 years, so short points-oriented runs make easy sense for me with a minimal time commitment while fulfilling any chores I have for the evening.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> This is especially true given that PRR 60 was focusing on Amtrak's intentions. I can't imagine that they really want riders to gain status by short-range mileage runs.


Well each ticket bought for a short mileage point run tallies another rider on their counts. When it comes to begging politicians for funding those extra riders make a difference. Even though Amtrak has support from Washington now, in a few years things might be completely different and they may need all the extra rides they can get to keep from getting shut down. If someone is willing to put enough energy into padding Amtrak's numbers for them they should be rewarded with elite status.


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## Ispolkom (Dec 11, 2009)

Guest said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > This is especially true given that PRR 60 was focusing on Amtrak's intentions. I can't imagine that they really want riders to gain status by short-range mileage runs.
> ...


If that were true Amtrak would not have limited to 4 the number of segments that can earn AGR points in any one day.

It seems to me more plausible that AGR in its usual desultory way is trying to focus on its goals with regard to running an awards program for high-paying NEC customers. Other effects (low-fare mileage runs, 4-night one-zone awards out west) are ignored unless they are perceived as too costly. Then they are fixed, hence the occasional disappearance of a long-distance loophole route, or the limitation on short segments. Imagining that AGR has some sort of ulterior motive of ginning up customer numbers gives both Amtrak and AGR far more credit for rationality than they deserve.


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## diesteldorf (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't have the data to support this but I would imagine that there are relatively few people that redeem for loophole type long distance sleeper awards and few that earn status simply by taking point runs on the keystones. If either found there way into the mainstream, AGR and Amtrak would be forced to take action.

If one books 20 low bucket BOS-NYP BC Acela trips at $93 each, they would earn S+ status with spending $1860

a WAS-NYP customer booking 20 low bucket BC Acela trips at $133 each, they would earn S+ status with spending $2660

Both customers are probably equally desired but one is spending $800 more for the same perks.

There are probably quite a few in each market that spend more as well because they don't always get low bucket.

Prior to the 100 point minimum per ticket rule, anyone outside of the NEC would be stuck spending a minimum of $5000 per year to get any S+ perks which is nearly double what even a WAS-NYP Acela rider would. Though unlikely, anyone that did spend $5000 per year on Amtrak travel outside the NEC would also have to be considered a valuable customer from strictly a revenue sense.

I would imagine that when Amtrak instituted the 100 point minimum rule it was to say to everyone else outside the NEC that you matter too, even if rewarding them was never a primary objective of AGR.

Of course, the 100 point minimum rule now makes it possible for people to earn status by spending far less than $5000 or even $1860 but those that do are probably in the minority and do little to water down status for everyone else.

I knew an elderly woman and her daughter that at times would commute on the EB from La Crosse to Tomah and back 2-3 times per week to visit their elderly husband/father at the VA hospital in Tomah. Even at low bucket senior/disabled fares, a run like that works out to be around $10 each way. There were even times when the conductor, knowing the purpose of their visit, would "forget" to pull her ticket so she could visit her husband later that week and still make ends meet. When they started making the trips, I don't think either of them were registered for AGR anyway but were still spending a couple thousand dollars over the course of a year. After they registered, both earned S+ status but riding La Crosse to Tomah and back was their only connection to Amtrak. They redeemed points for free coach travel from La Crosse to Tomah and never had a chance to use any upgrade coupons or sit in the Metro Lounge or CAs.

From Amtrak's perspective, they were probably great customers from a revenue standpoint and the benefits they did gleen from their status--free $10 coach redemptions--did little to hurt the bottom line.

Now conceivably, you could have a few enterprising people that ride keystones back and forth, earn status, redeem expensive First Class Acela upgrades, visit the CAs on a regular basis when not even riding and take space away from paying First Class customers. However, few people probably operate like this.

You could also have that one or two people that pay $2 low bucket from Summit, IL to Chicago, accumulate status and redeem their points on a costly sleeper award on the EB during peak summer months. When I did this run once, I was the only person. The same is also true when I'll ride from CHI to Glenview and back on the Hiawatha.

During National Train Day last year, I did the CHI-Glenview run to earn quadruple points and was surprised that day to see another person waiting on the platform to make the same run. When I looked closer, I realized it was a fellow AUer and two of his friends. It was nice that day to earn 400 points for an $8 ticket, yet, as railfans I know we were still in the minority. Every other person that day was still taking metra and life was normal. I doubt Amtrak's bottom line was affected that day.

Any program that is designed to advertise a company's brand and bring people in the door can cause some knowledgeable people to take things to the extreem.

If everyone just bought the loss leaders at the grocery store each week or that deeply discounted DVD each Tuesday and left, without buying anything else, policies would change and the bottom line would be affected.

By having the 100 point minimum rule, I've probably taken a few trips to Chicago for fun that I may not have taken otherwise, but I've also paid cash for sleepers that may have otherwise gone unsold. I also took the CL from CHI to WAS to CHI so I could ride the Acela to and from the Boston Gathering when I could've paid less for a regional. By having S+ status, my primary perk is getting to sit in the CHI Metro Lounge and consume free pretzles and fountain soda, have easier access to red caps and a comfortable place to wait between trains.

It's a valuable benefit for me, but I don't think it's probably costing Amtrak that much in the long run. Now, if the number of S+ people in the midwest became so large that it became impossible for sleeper passengers to wait there, the pretzles ran out and the soda fountain ran dry, that would cause a problem. The 100 point minimum may go away or the # of rail points needed to qualify would go up. Yet, I know I am in the minority simply because some of the agents would still look at my AGR card funny when I would show it to gain entrance.

Recently, I redeemed an AGR free companion coupon to take my brother and his wife to CHI. Both had never been on Amtrak or to CHI, yet both are considering repeating it in the future so that AGR coupon may have actually brought new customers to Amtrak.

Even when AGR instituted the rule that only 4 segments per day would qualify under the 100 point rule, it probably had little affect on all but a few ardent rail fans. As an aside, it affected me but only because I took a trip on Thanksgiivng to visit relatives and that segment had posted on the wrong day to begin with. After calling AGR, they posted it on the correct day and I got the points.

Finally, being that AGR was designed to reward those on the NEC riding the Acela, I have to wonder what they were thinking. It is $93 to ride from BOs to NYP, and $133 to ride from NYP to WAS at low bucket. Now, from what I've been told, the price differential is related to Amtrak's ability to compete in those markets. Amtrak has a higher market share in NYP-WAS and can charge more based on what people will pay. They have a smaller market share from BOS-NYP and more competition and charge less.

What few people may realize is that riding Acela all the way from BOS-WAS only costs $149. In comparison, that seems absurdly cheap. Add to that a free upgrade coupon and the ability to consume two meals and double the alcohol and I wonder why Amtrak hasn't done more to stop what could be a disaster in the making. Imagine if Amtrak suddenly captured 70-80% of that elusive BOS-WAS market. Acelas would zoom full speed into Penn Station and no one would get off. NY-WAS passengers (in Amtrak's highest market share since the metroliner days) would be left on the platform and NYP-WAS market share and the bottom line would probably be dramatically affected.

Somehow, I doubt Amtrak is worried about this scenario. I've done it 4 times and each time seen the train clear completly with the exception of myself and maybe 1-2 others, only to see a whole new set of passengers get on in their place. The idea that a bunch of business professionals are suddenly going to avoid flying and instead spend 6 1/2 hours riding a train would not be typical for most of those people.

I'm sure AGR realizes that some customers will engage in behaviors that the majority of its customers would not and as long as they are in the minority, I doubt Amtrak or AGR is too concerned.


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## the_traveler (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree with Chris. Not everyone in the Northeast or on the NEC takes short point runs to make Select+ (or even Select) Status. A case in point is me!

Many assume that I am Select or even Select+. However, you would be wrong! The highest amount of Rail points I ever had was I think 3,400. This year, I had 3,230 rail points. Chris was kind enough to give me 2 upgrade certificates, so I decided to get the extra 1,770 needed to reach Select for the first time!

So this week, I took an AE round trip between BOS and NYP. I would not have done so if I had not receive those coupons. Otherwise, I may have ended the year with something like 3,500 Rail Points. Even with the AE rides, I'm still 70 points short, so I will take another ride before year's end. (But I may even have a reason to go to Boston.)

Personally, the 2X points are more incentive to me than making status. But even with the 2X promo, I think I've only taken a few trips, and only a couple have been "for no reason". All the other trips have had a reason (meaning I would have gone anyway). And very few trips have been multi segments trips - but being on the NEC that could be fairly easy waiting 1 hour or so between trains.


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## rrdude (Dec 12, 2009)

diesteldorf said:


> ......................I'm sure AGR realizes that some customers will engage in behaviors that the majority of its customers would not and as long as they are in the minority, I doubt Amtrak or AGR is too concerned..............


Check out the big-brain on Chris! I had no idea I was rooming with such a smart, intelligent guy while at the gathering!

Seriously, that was a great post buddy. I'm hoping to make select next year, as I have finally convinced my superiors that we need to go VISIT our top 20 clients each year, not just YAK at them on the phone, and via Al Gore's internet.

So Chris, (and The_Traveler, and others) I may be bugging you guys a LOT next year with "optimal routing" questions for max AGR points!

And thanks AGAIN for the Acela Upgrade Chris. Much nicer to travel FC when you can..........


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