# The effect of the potential rail strike on Amtrak



## haroldo (Sep 10, 2022)

The strike discussed in this article focusses on US freight trains. If the strike occurs (after Sept 16 cooling off date) what will be the effect on Amtrak services?









Looming rail strike would cost U.S. economy $2 billion per day, industry report says


A new report says that a looming rail strike involving more than 100,000 workers next week would cost the U.S. economy about $2 billion per day and idle thousands of trains nationwide.




www.upi.com


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## jis (Sep 10, 2022)

Presumably all Amtrak services that are hosted on freight railroads that are struck will cease to run for the duration of the strike.


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## haroldo (Sep 10, 2022)

jis said:


> Presumably all Amtrak services that are hosted on freight railroads that are struck will cease to run for the duration of the strike.



That is certainly my fear (and assumption).


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## Palmland (Sep 10, 2022)

There seems to be the opinion of many that Congress will intervene to stop it if no settlement is reached. But, knowing Amtrak, I might be a little concerned that Amtrak would cancel overnight trains departing on the 15th just in case a strike is called at midnight and congress hasn't had time to act.


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## jis (Sep 10, 2022)

Palmland said:


> There seems to be the opinion of many that Congress will intervene to stop it if no settlement is reached. But, knowing Amtrak, I might be a little concerned that Amtrak would cancel overnight trains departing on the 15th just in case a strike is called at midnight and congress hasn't had time to act.


The alternative of stranding a bunch of people at random places en-route does not seem terribly attractive to me, Amtrak or not. Lufthansa for example canceled all flights that would in normal course not be completed before the start time of the pilot's strike.


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## Palmland (Sep 10, 2022)

jis said:


> The alternative of stranding a bunch of people at random places en-route does not seem terribly attractive to me, Amtrak or not.


Oh, I don’t know. Maybe passengers would enjoy downtown Florence, SC at midnight, especially if on AutoTrain with their cars untouchable for the duration.


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## lordsigma (Sep 10, 2022)

I just hope it gets cleared up by Oct 7 for my next trip.


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## Shanson (Sep 10, 2022)

My next trip AUS to BOS departs on 9/19. (We hope.) The last time, did Congress act before the stoppage? If not, how long was service disrupted?


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## MARC Rider (Sep 10, 2022)

I read an article on the CNN website about the factors in play. At this point only Congress can act to prevent the strike. They can either kick the can down the road until after the election by extending the "cooling off" period, or they can impose the Presidential Emergency Board's settlement. Given the partisan gridlock in Congress, especially in this period right before the election, and the fact that a rail strike would cause supply-chain disruptions that could possibly affect the results of the election, I would vote for kicking the can down the road, extending the cooling-off period until after the election, and then dealing with the issue without the immediate political pressure. However, given the partisan gridlock, I'm not sure that Congress can even do that. The whole thing is intensely political, and I'm not sure how much more I can say without the moderators deleting the post.


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 10, 2022)

A nationwide railroad strike would devastate the economy. No politician, of any party, wants any part of that.


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## Squad1-1 (Sep 10, 2022)

Cancellations will be rolling on a day-to-day basis to minimize size of disruption, expect to start receiving (potential) cancellations notices on Monday assuming no deal is made.


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## Bonser (Sep 10, 2022)

Palmland said:


> There seems to be the opinion of many that Congress will intervene to stop it if no settlement is reached. But, knowing Amtrak, I might be a little concerned that Amtrak would cancel overnight trains departing on the 15th just in case a strike is called at midnight and congress hasn't had time to act.


But wouldn't that be the wise thing to do?


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## Palmland (Sep 10, 2022)

Yes it would, guess I’ve just gotten a bit cynical about Amtrak.


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## librarian (Sep 10, 2022)

My 17 day Amtrak rail journey is supposed to begin September 16.........


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## TrackWalker (Sep 11, 2022)

I heard one railroader say to everybody at his retirement party years ago, “The railroad spent two weeks training me to do my job and then spent the next forty years trying to fire me.”


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## John819 (Sep 11, 2022)

Ordinarily the Congress would pass a resolution putting the strike off until after the midterms in a matter of hours. But these are not ordinary times. I have to expect that Rand Paul or someone else will object to unanimous consent in the Senate, resulting in a three day delay, and therefore in a strike starting.


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## jis (Sep 11, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please refrain from straying too far from discussing the effect of the potential strike on Amtrak. That is the subject of this thread primarily. The subject is not the pros and cons of the politics of the strike. If it strays too far from its core subject area the thread will be locked.

Over the next few days we will carry out a bit of cleanup of this thread.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


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## ibafilfan (Sep 11, 2022)

haroldo said:


> The strike discussed in this article focusses on US freight trains. If the strike occurs (after Sept 16 cooling off date) what will be the effect on Amtrak services?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am a little nervous, our train leaves Rochester on 9/14, heads to Chicago, then 9/15-9/16 to Denver. We are hoping either Amtrak does something or Congress does soon!


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## MARC Rider (Sep 11, 2022)

If, presumably, the NEC is not affected by this, how will they handle the extended NEC trains that go into Virginia on CSX and NS? I would hope that they will just terminate/originate them in Washington, as canceling them will devastate the frequency of the Washington-Boston service.

What about the Empire Service? Part of it is on CSX tracks being leased by the state of New York and (I think operated by Amtrak.)

Also, will this affect the smaller railroads like the New England Central (which hosts the Vermonter), or Pan Am (which hosts the Downeaster?)

Amtrak also owns the tracks in Michigan up to Porter, IN, if I understand correctly. While they couldn't run trains into Chicago, could they continue to run trains from Pontiac to, say, Kalamazoo?


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 11, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> If, presumably, the NEC is not affected by this, how will they handle the extended NEC trains that go into Virginia on CSX and NS? I would hope that they will just terminate/originate them in Washington, as canceling them will devastate the frequency of the Washington-Boston service.
> 
> What about the Empire Service? Part of it is on CSX tracks being leased by the state of New York and (I think operated by Amtrak.)
> 
> ...


Re the NEC extended trains, they'll put together make up trains in WAS to cover trains severely delayed south of WAS, so I suspect they'll still run those trains to/from WAS.


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## jis (Sep 11, 2022)

I am almost certain that Empire Service will operate fine between New York and Albany and will be curtailed beyond Albany. 

Similarly Keystones will continue to run to Harrisburg, but the Pennsylvanian won;t run beyond Harrisburg.

Of course all this will depend on whether Amtrak unionized crew will cross possible picket lines or not too.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 11, 2022)

jis said:


> Of course all this will depend on whether Amtrak unionized crew will cross possible picket lines or not too.


Would there be picket lines to cross on Amtrak properties? Amtrak isn't one of the railroads that are part of this bargaining and would not be the target of a strike itself. Of course, any of the freight railroads would be and Amtrak union members would likely respect those picket lines. But on the NEC and Hudson Line to Albany (MetroNorth and Amtrak) where the freight roads being struck are uninvolved?


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## jis (Sep 11, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Would there be picket lines to cross on Amtrak properties? Amtrak isn't one of the railroads that are part of this bargaining and would not be the target of a strike itself. Of course, any of the freight railroads would be and Amtrak union members would likely respect those picket lines. But on the NEC and Hudson Line to Albany (MetroNorth and Amtrak) where the freight roads being struck are uninvolved?


I have no idea. Hopefully there won;t be.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 11, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Would there be picket lines to cross on Amtrak properties? Amtrak isn't one of the railroads that are part of this bargaining and would not be the target of a strike itself. Of course, any of the freight railroads would be and Amtrak union members would likely respect those picket lines. But on the NEC and Hudson Line to Albany (MetroNorth and Amtrak) where the freight roads being struck are uninvolved?


Perhaps where the freight lines converge with the NEC. One such line is the access track to the Bear Shops where Amfleet cars are serviced.


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## west point (Sep 11, 2022)

What about California?. Especially for Commuter RRs. Its complicated there. example-- UP runs by the San Jose station and runs parallel to the Cal Train track for some distance,


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## TinCan782 (Sep 11, 2022)

west point said:


> What about California?. Especially for Commuter RRs. Its complicated there. example-- UP runs by the San Jose station and runs parallel to the Cal Train track for some distance,


In SoCal, Metrolink (SCRRA) owns and dispatches a lot of track that Amtrak runs on. UP and BNSF also have trackage rights on some Metrolink lines. 
Of course, Metrolink and Amtrak also run on UP and BNSF tracks here.


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## Palmland (Sep 11, 2022)

Do the unions want a congressionally imposed mandate to end the strike as that would end any attempt to negotiate a settlement that meets there demands.

If not, I would think they would avoid any interference with Amtrak trains in the NEC or anywhere Amtrak crews go on duty, controls/maintains the tracks, and provide their own dispatching. Doing so would quickly increase the public pressure on Congress to act.

In my part of the country it’ll be interesting to see what happens to Brightline.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 11, 2022)

west point said:


> What about California?. Especially for Commuter RRs. Its complicated there. example-- UP runs by the San Jose station and runs parallel to the Cal Train track for some distance,


Probably simpler than you think.

For Amtrak, pretty much nothing can run. It is BNSF from CP Soto to Fullerton Jct for the Surfliners and from CP Soto on for the SW Chief and UP north of CP Los Posas in Moorpark, so that let's out the Surfliners, the SW Chief and the Starlight. Up north, it is UP from CP Coast in Santa Clara on. So nothing can run, not the Capitol Corridor on UP, nor the San Joaquins on UP and BNSF.

With regard to commuters, Metrolink won't be able to run anything except the Ventura Line as far as Moorpark and the line out to Lancaster, as those are wholly SCRRA owned. They won't be able to run anything south or east as those lines have large sections on BNSF and UP. The Coasters will probably be okay as that line is all NCTD owned.

Up north, CalTrain can run SF-San Jose as that is all PJPB owned. They can't run to Gilroy as that is UP owned. ACE is all on UP except the last little bit into San Jose. I don't think ACE crews are unionized, so don't have to respect picket lines, but they have to have UP dispatching.

The dominant factor is likely ownership and dispatching. I doubt trackage rights will be a factor. The freight railroads have trackage rights over pretty much every inch of commuter agency owned rail in California.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Sep 11, 2022)

Any word on alternative plans from any commuter rails?

I’m wondering if some would change to buses during a strike where feasible.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 11, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Any word on alternative plans from any commuter rails?
> 
> I’m wondering if some would change to buses during a strike where feasible.


Suprisingly, haven't seen anything from Southern California's Metrolink.


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## amtrakp42 (Sep 11, 2022)

I would think that wherever the freight railroads dispatch Amtrak or anyone else, there would be no train traffic?


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## dlagrua (Sep 11, 2022)

If the freight railroads control the track, and the switching, a strike could be devastating to service, I can't see how any LD passenger trains can operate. On the NE Corridor there shouln't be any negative effects as Amtrak owns the track, and ROW.


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## Dutchrailnut (Sep 11, 2022)

Any track Amtrak owns may or may not be effected by a potential strike. it all depends are Amtrak emplyees honoring strike due to safety of possible actions even on NEC , who dispatches such Amtrak line since trains can not run without dispatch , some Commuter agencies own and dispatch so those are not affected , like Metro-North and some NJT lines , not very up un rest of country on who is who .


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## Squad1-1 (Sep 11, 2022)

Amtrak is closely monitoring and preparing for a potential freight railroad shut down by freight railroad hosts, as many Amtrak trains operate over rail lines owned and dispatched by these railroads.
In the event of a freight shutdown, Amtrak intends to continue to operate the services that use tracks that Amtrak owns, or tracks that are owned by a party not involved in the contract negotiations. These services include:
• Northeast Corridor (Washington-Boston-Springfield)
• Empire Service (New York-Albany)
• Keystone Corridor (New York-Harrisburg)
• Hartford Line (New Haven-Springfield)

As a result, many Amtrak trains outside of the Northeast Corridor may be canceled or terminate early; this includes all Long Distance and most State-Supported routes. Amtrak will begin reaching out to potentially impacted customers on September 12, 2022, informing them of the situation.


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## joelkfla (Sep 11, 2022)

My trip starts 9/26 on the Star. I do hope things are ironed out by then.


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## niemi24s (Sep 11, 2022)

My trip starts 9/24 on the LSL. I don't much care one way or the other. If the train's cancelled it's $465 to $625 cheaper to fly the two of us from BOS to MKE!


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## Trogdor (Sep 11, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Amtrak also owns the tracks in Michigan up to Porter, IN, if I understand correctly. While they couldn't run trains into Chicago, could they continue to run trains from Pontiac to, say, Kalamazoo?



Amtrak only controls (through Michigan DOT ownership) from ~Dearborn (I don’t know if the Dearborn station is in their territory or not) to east of Battle Creek, then west of Battle Creek to Porter. From Dearborn to West Detroit is Conrail Shared Assets, then CN from West Detroit to Pontiac. CN controls the trackage at Battle Creek Station and a half mile to a mile or so in either direction. So, at best, you could run Dearborn (maybe Ann Arbor?) to Jackson and Kalamazoo to New Buffalo. Hardly worth it.


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## lordsigma (Sep 11, 2022)

niemi24s said:


> My trip starts 9/24 on the LSL. I don't much care one way or the other. If the train's cancelled it's $465 to $625 cheaper to fly from BOS to MKE!


I am assuming flying coach is that much cheaper than an Amtrak sleeper is what you checked? Amtrak’s coach fare seems to be quite reasonable for those who may be willing to endure the overnight trip in coach - I personally wouldn’t but still In fairness it isn’t bad. I suspect there are veryfew city pairs where Amtrak sleepers are neck and neck cost competitive to airline coach - particularly with low cost carriers like SWA.


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 11, 2022)

My trip begins 9/21 (too close for comfort from the start of the strike when a settlement is or might be made or imposed) and includes rail links of PIT to MSP, SEA to PDX and PDX to MSP with air links from MSP to SEA and MSP back to PIT. All of my rail is with points. I really want to make this trip so I'll end up forking out a lot of new money for air fares and hotels to make it work. That is even if there is availability. Sitting on pins and needles right now.


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## Willbridge (Sep 12, 2022)

In regard to the conflicts with shared facilities, property access, etc. those many issues are usually settled by individual legal actions. That, of course, can consume a lot of time and treasure. I've worked through three big strikes as a contractor or management employee. In one strike every nit-picking detail was challenged by one side or the other and it led to the loss of a lot of jobs and at least one death. In the other two, common-sense accommodations were made.


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## John819 (Sep 12, 2022)

Since Amtrak needs to have all its equipment at their "home base" (excluding the NEC and adjacent routes owned and dispatched by Amtrak or non-affected rail) before the strike deadline I would expect to see LD cancellations starting tomorrow. Definitely Amtrak should not anticipate a negotiated settlement or Congressional action averting a strike at this point.


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## amy1277 (Sep 12, 2022)

I’m supposedly leaving on Friday (9/16) KIN-KIS. My guess is the first leg to NYP will be fine, but Silver Star will be affected. I’ll keep everyone posted here if/when I receive cancellation notice!


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 12, 2022)

If a strike occurs we can expect Amtrak to follow past practice and furlough half the staff and then find themselves needing to rebuild the workforce, with additional massive major cancecllations of service after resolution. I say that somewhat sarcastically but with every joke there is a grain of truth. Being serious for a moment, even if they don't do layoffs for a short strike it will be a major effort to remobilize when it is settled.


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

Squad1-1 said:


> Amtrak is closely monitoring and preparing for a potential freight railroad shut down by freight railroad hosts, as many Amtrak trains operate over rail lines owned and dispatched by these railroads.
> In the event of a freight shutdown, Amtrak intends to continue to operate the services that use tracks that Amtrak owns, or tracks that are owned by a party not involved in the contract negotiations. These services include:
> • Northeast Corridor (Washington-Boston-Springfield)
> • Empire Service (New York-Albany)
> ...


Where was this posted? I’m booked on the Southwest Chief 9/24, and hoping this doesn’t extend to then. This is the second time this year a rail strike has threatened to impact my plans - was planning to book the Canadian right when VIA voted to strike. Thankfully they settled quickly without any cancellations - have a flight booked as a backup option this time, but hoping to take the train. Wondering when cancellations would start and how long it would take to resume services after a settlement…


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## niemi24s (Sep 12, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> I am assuming flying coach is that much cheaper than an Amtrak sleeper is what you checked?


The fare differences quoted were for two seniors in coach from BOS to ALB, in a Roomette from ALB to CHI, in coach from CHI to MKE versus SWA's Anytime and Wanna Get Away fares.

For coach all the way on both, Amtrak is $85 (48%) more than SWA's cheapest fare for two seniors.


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## lordsigma (Sep 12, 2022)

I'm on 91 on 10/7 so I'm on pins and needles also - though certainly not as much as some here with even closer plans.


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## joelkfla (Sep 12, 2022)

Article in today's Washington Post, focusing largely on political ramifications (unlocked) --



https://wapo.st/3ByENWO


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## lrh442 (Sep 12, 2022)

Squad1-1 said:


> Amtrak is closely monitoring and preparing for a potential freight railroad shut down by freight railroad hosts, as many Amtrak trains operate over rail lines owned and dispatched by these railroads.
> In the event of a freight shutdown, Amtrak intends to continue to operate the services that use tracks that Amtrak owns, or tracks that are owned by a party not involved in the contract negotiations. These services include:
> • Northeast Corridor (Washington-Boston-Springfield)
> • Empire Service (New York-Albany)
> ...


Squad, what is your source for this info? From what I've read elsewhere Amtrak crafts are unlikely to cross picket lines.

I do not expect any Amtrak or commuter operations to continue in the event of a strike. Just too many unknowns and potential for operational problems to do otherwise.

If Amtrak views this as they would a winter storm, they will want all trains in their home bases by 12:01am on 09/16/2022. This likely means no western LD departures after Tuesday. If a strike does occur, even briefly, the freight network will likely be gridlocked for at least a few days and Amtrak may choose to continue annulments until the network is more fluid and timekeeping can be more reliable.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 12, 2022)

niemi24s said:


> The fare differences quoted were for two seniors in coach from BOS to ALB, in a Roomette from ALB to CHI, in coach from CHI to MKE versus SWA's Anytime and Wanna Get Away fares.
> 
> For coach all the way on both, Amtrak is $85 (48%) more than SWA's cheapest fare for two seniors.


Of course the WN lowest fares usually have a long advance booking requirement.


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

No idea as to why both trains were cancelled. Thinking it must be strike-related, though you’d think that wouldn’t be an issue until Wednesday’s departures.

Edit: since the Zephyr is cancelled on the same days, definitely seems strike-related…


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

I would think strike-related cancellations wouldn’t start until 9/14 (as those would be en route when the strike is going on), though perhaps there are moves needed to service the train I’m not thinking of…


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

Guessing this is definitely strike-related - now the Zephyr is cancelled on the same days:

Edit: and the Empire Builder


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

And now the Zephyr - definitely seems strike-related:


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 12, 2022)

Add the builder to that list.


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## Brian Battuello (Sep 12, 2022)

Maybe they can park the diners somewhere near downtown and serve meals!


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## Trogdor (Sep 12, 2022)

I guess they're worried enough about some significant delay pushing those trains' arrivals past midnight on the 16th and thus potentially stranding them.

For the eastbound trains, I could see that. The westbound trains (particularly Chief and Builder), they ought to be able to get in before they turn into pumpkins. However, that might be just to keep the equipment balanced.


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## thully (Sep 12, 2022)

Trogdor said:


> I guess they're worried enough about some significant delay pushing those trains' arrivals past midnight on the 16th and thus potentially stranding them.
> 
> For the eastbound trains, I could see that. The westbound trains (particularly Chief and Builder), they ought to be able to get in before they turn into pumpkins. However, that might be just to keep the equipment balanced.


I also wonder if cancelling tomorrow’s departures is related to the location of crew bases - if the crews for the trains out of CHI are based there, they don’t want to send them to the endpoints and strand them there (or have to fly them home).


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 12, 2022)

Trogdor said:


> I guess they're worried enough about some significant delay pushing those trains' arrivals past midnight on the 16th and thus potentially stranding them.
> 
> For the eastbound trains, I could see that. The westbound trains (particularly Chief and Builder), they ought to be able to get in before they turn into pumpkins. However, that might be just to keep the equipment balanced.


Many host railroads are also starting to limit the amount of trains allowed on their tracks starting in the days leading up to the strike. (I’m sure other members have more knowledge on that then I do).


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 12, 2022)

For the OBS people, it is a 5 or 6 day outing. They don't want to have to fly them back to their home base 2000 miles.


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## Trogdor (Sep 12, 2022)

thully said:


> I also wonder if cancelling tomorrow’s departures is related to the location of crew bases - if the crews for the trains out of CHI are based there, they don’t want to send them to the endpoints and strand them there (or have to fly them home).



Not really. You’re going to have crews out of place either way.

The Chief OBS are based out of LA, Builder is Seattle/Chicago, Zephyr is Chicago. Cancelling the eastbound will strand any Chicago-based crews. Cancelling the westbound strand any West Coast-based crews. And the T&E crews are going to be stranded wherever they are (or, more likely, flown/bused/vanned back) if the train they were supposed to work heading back home gets cancelled.


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## Trogdor (Sep 12, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> For the OBS people, it is a 5 or 6 day outing. They don't want to have to fly them back to their home base 2000 miles.


They don’t want to. But they will.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 12, 2022)

Railroads are starting to limit trains.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 12, 2022)

More and more LD Trains being Cancelled including the Zephyr,the Builder and the Chief.

Commuters need to have Plan A,B,C ready to deal with the Strike which is almost certain to happen now!


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## haroldo (Sep 12, 2022)

Not looking good.

If memory serves, it's better to talk with Customer Relations than Customer Service, yes?


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## lordsigma (Sep 12, 2022)

haroldo said:


> Not looking good.
> 
> If memory serves, it's better to talk with Customer Relations than Customer Service, yes?


My suggestion is don’t pre emptively cancel wait until you are notified to ensure you get full advantage of any fee waiving that may occur. To limit the impact on the call center they’re likely going to want to deal with only the imminently affected customers. Customer relations is for when you have a grievance or problem. This would be dealt with by regular customer service.


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## glensfallsse (Sep 12, 2022)

Are dispatchers part of the bargaining unit for freight railroads, and would they be on strike/lockout too?


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## JoshP (Sep 12, 2022)

I was informed that starting tomorrow Southwest Chief, Empire Builder and California Zephyr will be suspended as of tomorrow at 12:01am on Tuesday and entire rail network as of Friday at 4pm EST if strike continues. By means, it will not look pretty for while and hope it sorts out so we can enjoy rail travelling!


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## John819 (Sep 12, 2022)

glensfallsse said:


> Are dispatchers part of the bargaining unit for freight railroads, and would they be on strike/lockout too?


No, but they will respect the T/E picket lines.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 12, 2022)

haroldo said:


> Not looking good.
> 
> If memory serves, it's better to talk with Customer Relations than Customer Service, yes?


Per a Facebook post:

Due to a possible freight railroad strike that could take place on September 16th, the California Zephyr will be canceled out of Chicago and Emeryville on Tuesday, September 13th. Amtrak will start notifying affected passengers day by day. Amtrak will give potentially affected passengers the option to change their reservation to another date, waiving any difference in fares for departures through October 31st. Passengers affected also have the option of getting a full refund without cancelation fees. Information regarding this service disruption is ongoing and will be updated accordingly as we get closer to the freight railroad negotiations deadline of September 16th.


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## lordsigma (Sep 12, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Per a Facebook post:
> 
> Due to a possible freight railroad strike that could take place on September 16th, the California Zephyr will be canceled out of Chicago and Emeryville on Tuesday, September 13th. Amtrak will start notifying affected passengers day by day. Amtrak will give potentially affected passengers the option to change their reservation to another date, waiving any difference in fares for departures through October 31st. Passengers affected also have the option of getting a full refund without cancelation fees. Information regarding this service disruption is ongoing and will be updated accordingly as we get closer to the freight railroad negotiations deadline of September 16th.


Good to know - so passengers concerned can in fact cancel or change now if they wish.


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## haroldo (Sep 12, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> Good to know - so passengers concerned can in fact cancel or change now if they wish.


I presume once their train has been officially cancelled.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

glensfallsse said:


> Are dispatchers part of the bargaining unit for freight railroads, and would they be on strike/lockout too?


I understand the dispatcher's union has accepted the PEB settlement, but they will respect the picket lines of the units that haven't (the operating crews) and go out, too.


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## OBS (Sep 12, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Per a Facebook post:
> 
> Due to a possible freight railroad strike that could take place on September 16th, the California Zephyr will be canceled out of Chicago and Emeryville on Tuesday, September 13th. Amtrak will start notifying affected passengers day by day. Amtrak will give potentially affected passengers the option to change their reservation to another date, waiving any difference in fares for departures through October 31st. Passengers affected also have the option of getting a full refund without cancelation fees. Information regarding this service disruption is ongoing and will be updated accordingly as we get closer to the freight railroad negotiations deadline of September 16th.


Trains 3/4 and 7/8 cancelled for 9/13 as well


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> Any track Amtrak owns may or may not be effected by a potential strike. it all depends are Amtrak emplyees honoring strike due to safety of possible actions even on NEC , who dispatches such Amtrak line since trains can not run without dispatch , some Commuter agencies own and dispatch so those are not affected , like Metro-North and some NJT lines , not very up un rest of country on who is who .


The dispatcher's contract with Amtrak is separate not part of this bargaining. It is only the contracts with the big 6 freight railroads that are at issue. I doubt it will be a picket linr crossing issue for Amtrak dispatchers because any freight running on trackage rights won't be running, since the freight's operating crews themselves will be out on strike.


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## joelkfla (Sep 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I understand the dispatcher's union has accepted the PEB settlement, but they will respect the picket lines of the units that haven't (the operating crews) and go out, too.


According to the WaPost article I posted earlier, the engineers and conductors are the only bargaining units which have not reached an agreement. (I'm not disputing the picket lines' effect.)


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## moosejunky99 (Sep 12, 2022)

hopefully i make it back to Chicago. I'm suppose to leave DC on Sunday.


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## iliketrains (Sep 12, 2022)

Amtrak suspends some long haul routes ahead of potential freight rail strike | CNN Business


Amtrak announced Monday that it is preemptively suspending service on some of its long range routes, mostly out of Chicago, due to a looming freight rail strike.




www.cnn.com


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## PerRock (Sep 12, 2022)

I'm surprised to not see anything from Metra about the strikes, seeing as a number of their lines are run & operated by UP & BNSF (not just on their tracks, but also with their crews).

Peter


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

moosejunky99 said:


> hopefully i make it back to Chicago. I'm suppose to leave DC on Sunday.


Hope so, too, but my guess is the 1 night LDs will be announced as cancelled tomorrow, effective with Wednesday's departures.

They are probably holding off in the slim hope of a settlement. The corridor trains off the NEC and possibly Empire Service as far as Albany probably won't be announced until Wednesday or Thursday.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 12, 2022)

From Pacific Surfliner:
"ALERT: A national work stoppage by freight railroad worker unions may close portions of the Pacific Surfliner route to freight and passenger rail services as early as Friday, Sept. 16. Service in some areas would be affected. "








Travel Advisories | Pacific Surfliner


Regular Pacific Surfliner service will continue as a tentative settlement has been reached between the Class 1 railroads and the freight railroad worker unions.




www.pacificsurfliner.com


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> From Pacific Surfliner:
> "ALERT: A national work stoppage by freight railroad worker unions may close portions of the Pacific Surfliner route to freight and passenger rail services as early as Friday, Sept. 16. Service in some areas would be affected. "
> 
> 
> ...


Happy to see they are going to preserve as much service as possible, which is almost certainly due to LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency which sponsors the service, not Amtrak itself.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

Up here around Seattle, the Sounder commuter trains are almost certainly going to get hit. Not only do they operate over BNSF, but they are operated by BNSF crews. No announcements yet though.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Happy to see they are going to preserve as much service as possible, which is almost certainly due to LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency which sponsors the service, not Amtrak itself.


Moorpark to San Luis Obispo is UP track; Los Angeles to Fullerton BNSF track.
Los Angeles to Moorpark is Metrolink track; Fullerton to San Diego is mostly Metrolink except for the southernmost part which belongs to the North County Transit District (Coaster).


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## chubbycat (Sep 12, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> Moorpark to San Luis Obispo is UP track; Los Angeles to Fullerton BNSF track.
> Los Angeles to Moorpark is Metrolink track; Fullerton to San Diego is mostly Metrolink except for the southernmost part which belongs to the North County Transit District (Coaster).


What about Chicago to New York?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> Moorpark to San Luis Obispo is UP track; Los Angeles to Fullerton BNSF track.
> Los Angeles to Moorpark is Metrolink track; Fullerton to San Diego is mostly Metrolink except for the southernmost part which belongs to the North County Transit District (Coaster).


Yeah, the announcement said they'd run as far as Fullerton. Which is interesting, since Fullerton is on BNSF, Fullerton Jct, where the SCRRA owned Surf Line starts, being just east of the station. Does SCRRA own some platform tracks? Or can they get some kind of authorization to run the last few yards on BNSF? I imagine SCRRA dispatchers might be able to control the Fullerton Jct. plant. Do the plant limits include the station?

The announcement also said they'd try to operate as far as Moorpark.


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## moosejunky99 (Sep 12, 2022)

if a freight train strike does happen. am i out my cancelled trip or do they refund the $?


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## TinCan782 (Sep 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Yeah, the announcement said they'd run as far as Fullerton. Which is interesting, since Fullerton is on BNSF, Fullerton Jct being just east of the station. Does SCRRA own some platform tracks? Or can they get some kind of authorization to run the last few yards on BNSF? I imagine SCRRA dispatchers might be able to control the Fullerton Jct. plant. Do the plant limits include the station?
> 
> The announcement also said they'd try to operate as far as Moorpark.


Looking at a 2019 Metrolink Employee Timetable I see the "Fullerton Lead" which runs CP Orangethorpe into the depot (Platform 4) at Fullerton (separate track from BNSF). The lead branches off from the BNSF San Bernardino Sub at Orangethorpe. Orangethorpe south to San Diego is SCRRA and NCTD track and dispatching. That may be how it could work.

North to Moorpark shouldn't be a problem for both Amtrak and Metrolink as that is SCRRA track and dispatching.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 12, 2022)

moosejunky99 said:


> if a freight train strike does happen. am i out my cancelled trip or do they refund the $?


If Amtrak cancels, you should be entitled to a refund.


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## JermyZP (Sep 12, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> Looking at a 2019 Metrolink Employee Timetable I see the "Fullerton Lead" which runs CP Orangethorpe into the depot (Platform 4) at Fullerton (separate track from BNSF). The lead branches off from the BNSF San Bernardino Sub at Orangethorpe. Orangethorpe south to San Diego is SCRRA and NCTD track and dispatching. That may be how it could work.
> 
> North to Moorpark shouldn't be a problem for both Amtrak and Metrolink as that is SCRRA track and dispatching.


Metrolink and Pacific Surfliner only able to use one platform, sounds like a very tight timetable. At least it has a siding right before the platform.


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## spaceycowboy (Sep 12, 2022)

I have tickets for Friday on the Pacific Surfiner and the area id be traveling would be impacted if there is a strike. While nobody truly knows what will happen on Friday, can anyone give me their best estimate on the odds of a strike occurring on Friday?









Travel Advisories | Pacific Surfliner


Regular Pacific Surfliner service will continue as a tentative settlement has been reached between the Class 1 railroads and the freight railroad worker unions.




www.pacificsurfliner.com


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> Looking at a 2019 Metrolink Employee Timetable I see the "Fullerton Lead" which runs CP Orangethorpe into the depot (Platform 4) at Fullerton (separate track from BNSF). The lead branches off from the BNSF San Bernardino Sub at Orangethorpe. Orangethorpe south to San Diego is SCRRA and NCTD track and dispatching. That may be how it could work.
> 
> North to Moorpark shouldn't be a problem for both Amtrak and Metrolink as that is SCRRA track and dispatching.


So CP Orangethorpe is Fullerton Jct's name now?

If that's the case, yeah, they could run into the station at platform 4 and not touch BNSF rail. Not at all familiar with the current track layout, I just remember the platforms being on the two Santa Fe mains, with Fullerton Jct just east of the station. Needless to say, its been awhile and I know that.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> So CP Orangethorpe is Fullerton Jct's name now?
> 
> If that's the case, yeah, they could run into the station at platform 4 and not touch BNSF rail.


Correct. The Fullerton Lead is "next" to BNSF at Fullerton Jct. Orangethorpe is just south of there where it connects to the line (SCRRA Orange Sub) south to San Diego.
Probably a "glitch" in this scheme is what/where to put all those trains!
If I can figure it out, I'll message you a scan of the track diagram.


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## chubbycat (Sep 12, 2022)

I am going to take Lake Shore from Chicago to New York on 9/24 and take Cardinal from New York to Chicago on 9/30, then continue on TE from CHI to LAX on 10/2. Any idea if the potential strike would have impact on those routes?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

Park 'em on the Olive Sub and then run them up to Fullerton from Orange? They won't be using the Olive Sub for anything.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 12, 2022)

chubbycat said:


> I am going to take Lake Shore from Chicago to New York on 9/24 and take Cardinal from New York to Chicago on 9/30, then continue on TE from CHI to LAX on 10/2. Any idea if the potential strike would have impact on those routes?


Chances are pretty good that they'll be in either another, Congressionally mandated, cooling off period by then, or Congress will have mandated acceptance of the PEB recommendations. I have some doubts about the latter, because this Congress probably doesn't want to be seen as dictating to labor. But by the 24th, you should be in the eye of the storm, so to speak.


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## Michigan Mom (Sep 12, 2022)

Worried now about my trip for this weekend. Hope we find out in enough time to redo all the hotel, plane and train aspects if needed.


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## John819 (Sep 12, 2022)

Amtrak cancelled the two night LD trains as of Tuesday. I would expect them to cancel the one night LD trains as of Wednesday, and the rest of the non-NEC (and adjacent) trains as of Thursday. That is just sound planning (something I ordinarily would never accuse Amtrak of).


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## ibafilfan (Sep 12, 2022)

I am looking forward to my first ever train trip, I am hoping it will take place this week.


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## joelkfla (Sep 13, 2022)

John819 said:


> Amtrak cancelled the two night LD trains as of Tuesday. I would expect them to cancel the one night LD trains as of Wednesday, and the rest of the non-NEC (and adjacent) trains as of Thursday. That is just sound planning (something I ordinarily would never accuse Amtrak of).


Actually, not as of Tuesday, but just on Tuesday. So far, they're only canceling one day at a time. At this moment, you can still book anything on Wednesday or later. And although you can't book, for example, LAX to CHI on the SWC on Tuesday, you can book LAX to CHI via the CS & EB, since the EB would depart on Wednesday.

Tomorrow, they'll probably cancel both the 2-night trains and the 1-night trains departing Wednesday.


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

If a strike and trains canceled, would the Amtrak offered trip insurance cover a room reservation that is not refundable. I'm on CS 9/16 Portland to Simi Valley 9/17 with room at Simi paid for and not refundable?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

coalman said:


> If a strike and trains canceled, would the Amtrak offered trip insurance cover a room reservation that is not refundable. I'm on CS 9/16 Portland to Simi Valley 9/17 with room at Simi paid for and not refundable?


You need to look at the policy. Some travel insurance exclude losses caused by labor disputes.


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## amy1277 (Sep 13, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Worried now about my trip for this weekend. Hope we find out in enough time to redo all the hotel, plane and train aspects if needed.


I’m in the same predicament, my friend. I spent much of the day yesterday finding and booking a backup flight and hotel that I can cancel up to 24 hours before travel. 
Now it’s just a waiting game!


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## Widfara (Sep 13, 2022)

According to the news reports, the Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, and Empire Builder will be cancelled in both directions starting today to avoid stranding along the routes should the strike happen.
I don't find a notice of this on the Amtrak site.


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## John Bobinyec (Sep 13, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> If Amtrak cancels, you should be entitled to a refund.


Conversely, if YOU cancel, there may be penalties.

jb


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## haroldo (Sep 13, 2022)

John Bobinyec said:


> Conversely, if YOU cancel, there may be penalties.
> 
> jb



Yep. So now we wait.


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## Barb Stout (Sep 13, 2022)

One of our local TV news stations reported that Amtrak canceled several long-distance trains including the SWC which goes through the city (Albuquerque) that the news team is based in and they indicated that it's due to a "worker strike". So now it will seem to folks who don't follow this issue that it's Amtrak employees who are striking. I'm thinking of calling the TV station to complain, but haven't done it yet.


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## Palmland (Sep 13, 2022)

Saw this on Trains’ Newswire

WASHINGTON — Two U.S. senators have introduced a resolution that would require unions and railroads to accept recommendations made in August by the Presidential Emergency Board to settle their labor dispute and avert a strike or lockout.


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## joelkfla (Sep 13, 2022)

Palmland said:


> Saw this on Trains’ Newswire
> 
> WASHINGTON — Two U.S. senators have introduced a resolution that would require unions and railroads to accept recommendations made in August by the Presidential Emergency Board to settle their labor dispute and avert a strike or lockout.


Maybe Amtrak will see a surge of applicants for engineer & conductor openings.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

Would Amtrak run between NYP and Albany - Ren ?


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Would Amtrak run between NYP and Albany - Ren ?


No reason not to. It is entirely an Amtrak operation involving no non-Amtrak personnel.


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## PVD (Sep 13, 2022)

I think there is a MNRR segment, but that would be unaffected as well, so your point stands regardless.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

From Spuyten Duyvil to 2 miles north of Poughkeepsie is Metro North. Of course the occasional CSX freight train wouldn't be running either.


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> From Spuyten Duyvil to 2 miles north of Poughkeepsie is Metro North. Of course the occasional CSX freight train wouldn't be running either.


AFAIK MNRR is not planning to go on strike. Whether CSX freight runs or not has no effect on Amtrak on an Amtrak and MNRR run railroad one would imagine.

NJT will potentially have a problem on the Raritan Valley Line and the River Line AFAICT. The rest should be fine.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

I think Amtrak is over-reacting. They could have run Tuesday's departing 2-night transcons. They also could have done partial runs to KC, St Paul, and Denver on Wednesday from Chicago and the West Coast. For the OBS crews stuck at the opposite side of the country from their homebase on Friday, fly them back. With minimialists consists and not a full dining crew, there aren't that many of them. Amtrak can afford it. Congress and the POTUS would likely legislate them back to work after a day or two anyway.


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

What is the staffing situation in the Amtrak Contingencies Planning Department?  All this is easier done in armchair quarterbacking mode than in reality perhaps?


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## chubbycat (Sep 13, 2022)

jis said:


> AFAIK MNRR is not planning to go on strike. Whether CSX freight runs or not has no effect on Amtrak on an Amtrak and MNRR run railroad one would imagine.
> 
> NJT will potentially have a problem on the Raritan Valley Line and the River Line AFAICT. The rest should be fine.


Thanks for the info! Does AFAIK MNRR cover East or West routes?


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

MNRR owns and runs the New Haven Line as far east as New Haven, which Amtrak uses east of New Rochelle. But it does not matter - MNRR is not going on strike. 

It remains to be seen if Conrail Shares Assets will place managerial people on the Hunter - Aldene (west of Newark to east of Cranford) portion of the Lehigh Line to get NJT Raritan trains through, which bridges the NEC with the former CNJ.


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## PVD (Sep 13, 2022)

Metro North is a NYC Metro Area Commuter Railroad operating mostly out of Grand Central up the Hudson as far as Poughkeepsie, along the Sound as far as New Haven CT, and the Harlem line runs North to Wassaic. It also has a West of the Hudson branch operated by NJT that runs to Secaucus junction with sone eqpt provided by them.


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## PVD (Sep 13, 2022)

Notwithstanding the obvious question of where Amtrak folks may not cross a line, if M-O-W and signal folks are not available, because they don't cross, it is doubtful whether qualified mgt exists to guarantee safety and perform mandatory inspections.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 13, 2022)

jis said:


> What is the staffing situation in the Amtrak Contingencies Planning Department?  All this is easier done in armchair quarterbacking mode than in reality perhaps?


I was thinking the same thing. How everything looks easy to do…from a chair in a living room.


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

PVD said:


> Metro North is a NYC Metro Area Commuter Railroad operating mostly out of Grand Central up the Hudson as far as Poughkeepsie, along the Sound as far as New Haven CT, and the Harlem line runs North to Wassaic. It also has a West of the Hudson branch operated by NJT that runs to Secaucus junction with sone eqpt provided by them.


Actually the West of Hudson service runs to Hoboken with a stop at Secaucus on the way. So if NJT in general is not hampered by picket crossing issues then there should be no problem running the West of Hudson service at least upto Suffern and Pearl River. I am not quite sure who does what to whom between Suffern and Port Jervis, but probably it is still some combination of MNRR and NJT.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

chubbycat said:


> Thanks for the info! Does AFAIK MNRR cover East or West routes?


MNRR is New York's Metro North, which owns and operates the commuter lines north out of New York to the Hudson Valley and Connecticut. They own the Hudson Line as far as just past Poughkeepsie. Amtrak owns the Empire Connection between Penn Station and Spyuten Devil (Metro North runs out of GCT). North of Poughkeepsie to Albany I think the physical railroad is actually owned by CSX, IIRC, but is dispatched and maintained by Amtrak. As such, it probably won't be subject to labor action.


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## pennyk (Sep 13, 2022)

ibafilfan said:


> I am looking forward to my first ever train trip, I am hoping it will take place this week.


Good Luck!


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> MNRR is New York's Metro North, which owns and operates the commuter lines north out of New York to the Hudson Valley and Connecticut. They own the Hudson Line as far as just past Poughkeepsie. Amtrak owns the Empire Connection between Penn Station and Spyuten Devil (Metro North runs out of GCT). North of Poughkeepsie to Albany I think the physical railroad is actually owned by CSX, IIRC, but is dispatched and maintained by Amtrak. As such, it probably won't be subject to labor action.


It is owned by CSX but is under long term lease to NYDOT and Amtrak. Amtrak maintains and dispatches it, and it uses an Amtrak PTC system, not the CSX one. This is between Poughkeepsie and Hoffmans, west of Schenectady, where it joins the CSX line from Selkirk.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

PVD said:


> Notwithstanding the obvious question of where Amtrak folks may not cross a line, if M-O-W and signal folks are not available, because they don't cross, it is doubtful whether qualified mgt exists to guarantee safety and perform mandatory inspections.


Generally only one of the railroads at a crossing or junction is responsible for maintenance of it. If Amtrak or a commuter line has the responsibility, all good, maintenance and inspection will be carried out. If the freight railroad has the responsibility, not so good.


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## Manny T (Sep 13, 2022)

Here is Metra's news release regarding the potential impact of the strike on its lines -- some it can operate, some it can't, and some it's "in discussions" about: Message to Customers | Metra


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## amy1277 (Sep 13, 2022)

For those of you in the know regarding various freight rails, lines, services:
I assume it’s safe to say the Silver Star would be affected by any strike that would occur? Guessing that route is not entirely Amtrak-run?
I’m taking a wait-it-out approach with my current trip booked on the 16th. But I’ve also booked a backup flight and hotel just to be safe. I realize nobody knows for sure, just trying to have some idea of what to expect.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

RoW is not Amtrak's south of DC. I think it safe to assume there will be no Silver Star. IMHO, not starting a rumor !, it will be cancelled as of Wednesday-south / Thursday-north if the western trans-cons are any example.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

Amtrak Advisory | Freight Railroad Labor Negotiations – Possible Impacts to Select Amtrak Service 

For some reason, the Downeaster route to Brunswick, ME will not be impacted.


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## chubbycat (Sep 13, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Amtrak Advisory | Freight Railroad Labor Negotiations – Possible Impacts to Select Amtrak Service
> 
> For some reason, the Downeaster route to Brunswick, ME will not be impacted.


It seems that Lake Shore and Cardinal will be impacted


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## jis (Sep 13, 2022)

chubbycat said:


> It seems that Lake Shore and Cardinal will be impacted


Of course. Those travel over CSX and the Lake Shore over NS too. The Capitol will also be impacted as will Silver Star, Palmetto and Carolinian.


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## Sauve850 (Sep 13, 2022)

Star is cancelled 9/14


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## jimdex (Sep 13, 2022)

Yes, these cancellations were strike-related. They don't want any trains stranded en route when the strike breaks out. As the strike deadline gets closer, other long-distance trains will be suspended.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

Widfara said:


> According to the news reports, the Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, and Empire Builder will be cancelled in both directions starting today to avoid stranding along the routes should the strike happen.
> I don't find a notice of this on the Amtrak site.


It was buried in @AmtrakAlerts, not in Passenger Advisories.


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## enviro5609 (Sep 13, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> Amtrak Advisory | Freight Railroad Labor Negotiations – Possible Impacts to Select Amtrak Service
> 
> For some reason, the Downeaster route to Brunswick, ME will not be impacted.



It must run on trackage owned by a short line and not the Class Is.


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## fritz (Sep 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> It was buried in @AmtrakAlerts, not in Passenger Advisories.


"SERVICE ADVISORY: California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6, which are scheduled to depart Chicago (CHI) and Emeryville (EMY) on 9/13, are canceled. For reservation assistance, please call 1-800-872-7245.


1:55 PM · Sep 12, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio"
I wish there was more officially, but this just announces 9/13 cancellation, does not refer to anything thereafter. I have a Zephyr ticket for 9/16. Planning on no train at this point, but I sure wish there would be at least an indication of more cancellations. The above came out just after noon yesterday, so I'm expecting the next day's post shortly.


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## Maybrook Valley (Sep 13, 2022)

enviro5609 said:


> It must run on trackage owned by a short line and not the Class Is.


The Downeaster runs on tracks that were owned by Pan Am Railways, a large regional Class 2 that CSX acquired just recently.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 13, 2022)

fritz said:


> "SERVICE ADVISORY: California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6, which are scheduled to depart Chicago (CHI) and Emeryville (EMY) on 9/13, are canceled. For reservation assistance, please call 1-800-872-7245.
> 
> 
> 1:55 PM · Sep 12, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio"
> I wish there was more officially, but this just announces 9/13 cancellation, does not refer to anything thereafter. I have a Zephyr ticket for 9/16. Planning on no train at this point, but I sure wish there would be at least an indication of more cancellations. The above came out just after noon yesterday, so I'm expecting the next day's post shortly.


They’re taking it day by day because the unions & railroads may, or may not, come to an agreement before Friday.


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## hecanjog (Sep 13, 2022)

My trip from WIN to MKE on the 16th via the empire builder was just cancelled this morning.


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## JoshP (Sep 13, 2022)

Silver Star trains starting to cancel as of tomorrow so looks like east coast is starting to start the affection.


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## pennyk (Sep 13, 2022)

From RPA this afternoon:



> *RAIL PASSENGERS ASSOCIATION STATEMENT ON POTENTIAL RAIL SHUTDOWN*​
> *WASHINGTON --* Rail Passengers Association has been telling our supporters about the potential for a rail shutdown over the past few months. The cooldown period mandated by the Presidential Emergency Board ends at midnight on September 16th and, with negotiations still ongoing, the nation is beginning to consider the very real potential that tens of thousands of rail workers may go on strike this weekend.
> 
> While President Biden’s Administration and the U.S. Congress are actively engaged in mediating the dispute—which centers on working conditions more than pay—it is important for passenger to understand how it may affect rail operations.
> ...


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

I especially like this part: _"If that means spending more on operations and less on stock buybacks, then that is what needs to happen."_


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

I checked out Amtrak.com to look at cancellations.

As of 12 pm PT
ALL long distance train departures are cancelled for Wednesday 9/14, except the Capitol Limited and the westbound Cardinal. Those exceptions seem strange.

NO long distance train departures are cancelled for Thursday, 9/15.


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## Railmonkey (Sep 13, 2022)

Scheduled to depart 9/27 on the SWC from LAX. Just booked a back up flight that I really hope I don't have to use. From what I hear Friday is the day we will know if a strike if authorized.


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## thully (Sep 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I checked out Amtrak.com to look at cancellations.
> 
> As of 12 pm PT
> ALL long distance train departures are cancelled for Wednesday 9/14, except the Capitol Limited and the westbound Cardinal. Those exceptions seem strange.
> ...


I think it may be because those trains arrive early enough that being delayed into Friday is less of a concern, and running just those wouldn’t cause an equipment imbalance (as running westbound but not eastbound two-night trains from Chicago would do).


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## zephyr17 (Sep 13, 2022)

Well, the CONO is cancelled and that gets into NOL in the early afternoon like the Cap into WAS, and gets into CHI at like 8:30 am.

So running the Cap still looks odd to me. Running the Card westbound makes more sense, because it is triweekly and otherwise equipment would be out of position, and, as you point out, it arrives early enough (10:30 CT, IIRC) that getting delayed enough to go past 12:01 am is very unlikely.

That brings up another thought. I just realized the strike deadline is likely 12:01 am Eastern Time. It could be that CONO's early afternoon arrival is closer to an 11:01 pm CT deadline than the Cap's is and that hour's difference makes it too close for comfort.


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 13, 2022)

I suppose between the Cardinal and the Capitol, even with their tiny consists, they can do without the Lake Shore. I suppose OBS crews will get flown home on Friday.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 13, 2022)

I went to the Amtrak app this morning (9/13) to get a ticket for my trip to Washington tomorrow, and they were still selling tickets for the Cardinal. I could have gotten a room for $167 for a 40 minute ride.  Maybe I should have, because I do need to rack up some TQP if I expect to make Select Plus this year. I actually reserved for the Palmetto, which had more "reasonable" prices for coach and business class, and which is "90% full." This is for a ~9:30 AM arrival into Washington.


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## joelkfla (Sep 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> It was buried in @AmtrakAlerts, not in Passenger Advisories.


IMHO, those Twitter alerts are virtually useless when trying to find the status of a particular train. It's near to impossible to find what you're looking for by wading through the jumble of information.

They really ought to find a better way to communicate this info, something that is easily searchable or filterable.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 13, 2022)

The alert is now on the “front page” of their website.


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## joelkfla (Sep 13, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> The alert is now on the “front page” of their website.


But aside from saying NEC and Empire Service are mostly unaffected, all it says is to visit Amtrak.com or monitor Twitter. There's no specific info about cancellations on Amtrak.com, and if it's on Twitter, it's buried amongst all the twits about the usual delays.


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## haroldo (Sep 13, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> But aside from saying NEC and Empire Service are mostly unaffected, all it says is to visit Amtrak.com or monitor Twitter. There's no specific info about cancellations on Amtrak.com, and if it's on Twitter, it's buried amongst all the twits about the usual delays.



The previous cancellations (yesterday's) were here:

Service Alerts & Notices | Amtrak


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> The alert is now on the “front page” of their website.











Intercity Rail Map


Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains




asm.transitdocs.com




Try this site for specific train alerts


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## amy1277 (Sep 13, 2022)

coalman said:


> Intercity Rail Map
> 
> 
> Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains
> ...


Wow, this is great! Thanks for sharing.


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## JC7648 (Sep 13, 2022)

On the NB Coast Starlight right now, crew just got called into a meeting, seems like they're flying home to LA so im guessing Thurs. onwards is cancelled, which seems to line up with the news here.


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

JC7648 said:


> On the NB Coast Starlight right now, crew just got called into a meeting, seems like they're flying home to LA so im guessing Thurs. onwards is cancelled, which seems to line up with the news here.


My CS last year was stopped by burned-out trestle. This year my CS Friday Sept 16 will probably be canceled. One of these years I'll get to see that famed CS coast.


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## JC7648 (Sep 13, 2022)

coalman said:


> My CS last year was stopped by burned-out trestle. This year my CS Friday Sept 16 will probably be canceled. One of these years I'll get to see that famed CS coast.


Ill tell you it was nice to see but painful to have to ride by it, next time im def flying and renting a car so I can dip my feet in.


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## haroldo (Sep 13, 2022)

We just received this concerning our Lake Shore Limited trip which was to start on Thursday.

_We are reaching out to you regarding your upcoming trip.

Amtrak is closely monitoring ongoing freight rail management-labor contract negotiations. While these negotiations do not involve Amtrak or the Amtrak workforce, many of our trains operate over freight railroad tracks. Because the parties have not yet reached a resolution, Amtrak has begun to make service adjustments in response to a possible freight railroad service interruption that could occur later this week. These service adjustments could impact your future travel plans and if your train is canceled, we will attempt to notify you at this email address at least 24 hours in advance with the opportunity to receive a full refund.

If your travel plans are flexible, we would be happy to change your reservation to another date at this time—as well as waive any difference in fare for departures through October 31. We can also offer you a full refund without cancelation fees. One of our Amtrak representatives would be happy to provide assistance by calling or texting 1-800-USA-RAIL. 

We appreciate your patience and apologize in advance for any inconvenience._

We took the full refund. A very easy transaction.


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

haroldo said:


> We just received this concerning our Lake Shore Limited trip which was to start on Thursday.
> 
> _We are reaching out to you regarding your upcoming trip.
> 
> ...


But what about the 40% discount. It's gone if you cancel.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 13, 2022)

coalman said:


> But what about the 40% discount. It's gone if you cancel.


They offer the option to change to a later date..


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

Looks like Alliance Policy I got with Amtrak reservation covers union strike for trip interruption. But I bet there is a gotcha in there somewhere.
From Alliance Individual Travel Insurance Policy
The delay must be for at least the Minimum Required Delay listed in your Declarations and due to one of the following covered reasons: 
1. A travel carrier delay; 
2. A strike, unless threatened or announced prior to the purchase of your policy;
several more instances sited after these two.


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## coalman (Sep 13, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> They offer the option to change to a later date..


Yes, I think change the date is better than canceling, but the new travel date must be before October 31.


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## librarian (Sep 13, 2022)

librarian said:


> My 17 day Amtrak rail journey is supposed to begin September 16.........


I cancelled my trip and got a full refund.


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## haroldo (Sep 13, 2022)

coalman said:


> But what about the 40% discount. It's gone if you cancel.


What 40% discount? We paid a bundle many months ago and received exactly that bundle today after cancellation.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 13, 2022)

haroldo said:


> What 40% discount? We paid a bundle many months ago and received exactly that bundle today after cancellation.


Recent points sale. 






40% off offer using points


Just got an email from AGR with an offer to Book Amtrak LD Travel using Points with a 40% Discount that must be booked by Aug 25th and that's good for travel until Sept 30!( not sure if this is Targeted or Not?) I'm wondering if anyone will be able to actually use this with all the...




www.amtraktrains.com


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## Sauve850 (Sep 13, 2022)

Ill put in for my refund in points after I get back home but it is costing me more to fly home so Im negative $ in this mess.


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## haroldo (Sep 13, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Recent points sale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 13, 2022)

Here's something from the Baltimore Sun regarding the MARC Brunswick and Camden Lines:









Commuters on Camden and Brunswick MARC lines to see disruptions if CSX workers strike Friday


A potential strike by CSX railroad workers beginning Friday would suspend commuter trains on the Camden and Brunswick lines, the Maryland Transit Administration announced Monday.




www.baltimoresun.com





In the article, it was mentioned that back 1991, the last rail strike, the CSX union engineers and conductors were willing to operate the MARC trains (this was when CSX operated those lines for the state), but CSX management told them they couldn't. 

Here's the article from 1991:









Train riders cope with strike CSX shuts commuter lines but Amtrak runs; Congress holds hearings for early solution.







www.baltimoresun.com





Here's a quote from the 1991 article that's interesting:



> Spokesmen at the management organization, Association of American Railroads, and at the union group, Railway Labor Executives Association, said the cancellation of the MARC service was the only instance that they knew of in which a rail company shut down a line. Union members operated commuter lines in Chicago and passenger lines reportedly operated without incident in Boston and New York.



So apparently during the last strike, META and MBTA, and Metro-North/New Jersey Transit were able to operate during the strike. It doesn't say anything about whether Amtrak was able to operate anything on the affected railroads then.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 14, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> I went to the Amtrak app this morning (9/13) to get a ticket for my trip to Washington tomorrow, and they were still selling tickets for the Cardinal. I could have gotten a room for $167 for a 40 minute ride.  Maybe I should have, because I do need to rack up some TQP if I expect to make Select Plus this year. I actually reserved for the Palmetto, which had more "reasonable" prices for coach and business class, and which is "90% full." This is for a ~9:30 AM arrival into Washington.


Yep, the Cardinal is running today.
Here's the station board at Baltimore.


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## Barb Stout (Sep 14, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> One of our local TV news stations reported that Amtrak canceled several long-distance trains including the SWC which goes through the city (Albuquerque) that the news team is based in and they indicated that it's due to a "worker strike". So now it will seem to folks who don't follow this issue that it's Amtrak employees who are striking. I'm thinking of calling the TV station to complain, but haven't done it yet.


Then the next day that same TV news station covered it again in more depth with accuracy in the verbiage and included an interview with a local man who works as a conductor on a freight train who emphasized the scheduling time off difficulties as apparently his main concern. However, all the images shown for that TV news piece were of Amtrak trains, not freight trains. I guess a train is a train?


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## Billvasili (Sep 14, 2022)

jis said:


> Presumably all Amtrak services that are hosted on freight railroads that are struck will cease to run for the duration of the strike.


For some reason l read that the western Amtrak trains were going to be affected. l have not seen any cancellations for DC or NYC trains yet. Does anyone know if the eastern trains will be affected? l am scheduled to go out in about two weeks.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 14, 2022)

Billvasili said:


> For some reason l read that the western Amtrak trains were going to be affected. l have not seen any cancellations for DC or NYC trains yet. Does anyone know if the eastern trains will be affected? l am scheduled to go out in about two weeks.


Just the trains that leave the NEC (go south of DC, go west of DC/NYC/Boston, Vermonter, etc)


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## John819 (Sep 14, 2022)

The NEC is owned, maintained, and dispatched by Amtrak. No Class I Freight Railroads are involved. So it should run.


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## fdaley (Sep 14, 2022)

We rode the Downeaster from Maine to Boston on Tuesday, then took 449 from Boston to Albany. There was a notice on the departure board at South Station that passengers taking the Lake Shore Limited should be aware there would be no connecting service west or south from Chicago. In the Metropolitan Lounge, there were several passengers stewing about how to rearrange their plans. One said he had just managed to book a flight for the remainder of his trip from Chicago to the Southwest.


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## jimmrl (Sep 14, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Maybe they can park the diners somewhere near downtown and serve meals!



Many years ago a Harley group out of Michigan or somewhere like that chartered a full Amtrak train to haul them to the Sturgis rally in South Dakota. They parked in my home town of Newcastle Wyoming (only a 40 minute drive away). They put their bikes in baggage cars and the rest was mostly sleepers. This gave the bikers a built in hotel every night and a place for breakfast every morning.

So the diner was only going to be used for breakfast and I think dinner. Whoever set up the charter was smart and opened the diner for lunch for the locals every day. My parents went almost every day. Every day the menu changed (nothing was Amtrak normal). For those who have never been in Newcastle, it has only a dozen places to eat without any "specialty" food. It was a big hit for that week.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Gentle nudge back to discussing effect of the potential strike on Amtrak service 

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.


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## daybeers (Sep 14, 2022)

I am supposed to take 49 ALB-CHI on Thurs 9/23 with family to get to a wedding. Paid for a room with my girlfriend with the 40% off points sale. If not for the sale, we probably wouldn't be going, at least not by train but probably not anyway with the airplane fares. Have to fly back to get back to work, but other family is taking 48 back.

This would be a major disruption to our plans and would require last-minute plane tickets. Any advice on what we should do? Just sit tight? Don't want any backup options to sell out.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 14, 2022)

daybeers said:


> I am supposed to take 49 ALB-CHI on Thurs 9/23 with family to get to a wedding. Paid for a room with my girlfriend with the 40% off points sale. If not for the sale, we probably wouldn't be going, at least not by train but probably not anyway with the airplane fares. Have to fly back to get back to work, but other family is taking 48 back.
> 
> This would be a major disruption to our plans and would require last-minute plane tickets. Any advice on what we should do? Just sit tight? Don't want any backup options to sell out.


The strike might end by the 23rd. I would book a refundable flight just in case though.


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## Qapla (Sep 14, 2022)

Back when there was a trucker strike - many drivers parked their rigs wherever they were and that is where the load sat until the strike ended. Perhaps, something similar may be expected by the freight trains - thus blocking mainlines and sidings - keeping Amtrak from using those lines even if they wanted to ... not to mention that there may be no one manning the switches.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 14, 2022)

Qapla said:


> Back when there was a trucker strike - many drivers parked their rigs wherever they were and that is where the load sat until the strike ended. Perhaps, something similar may be expected by the freight trains - thus blocking mainlines and sidings - keeping Amtrak from using those lines even if they wanted to ... not to mention that there may be no one manning the switches.


And no dispatchers.


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## chubbycat (Sep 14, 2022)

John819 said:


> The NEC is owned, maintained, and dispatched by Amtrak. No Class I Freight Railroads are involved. So it should run.


Does NEC cover Lake Shore and Cardinal?


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## daybeers (Sep 14, 2022)

chubbycat said:


> Does NEC cover Lake Shore and Cardinal?


NEC stands for Northeast Corridor, the 457-mile line between Boston and Washington, so no.


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## chubbycat (Sep 14, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> The strike might end by the 23rd. I would book a refundable flight just in case though.


I am going to NYC on 24th via Lake Shore, hopefully I can make it!


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 14, 2022)

chubbycat said:


> Does NEC cover Lake Shore and Cardinal?


Cardinal only from NYP to WAS


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 14, 2022)

Well the Amtrak shut down is making the national news. This would be good. The underlying issues of been on call forever will not be a easy fix. The freight crew are limited on a monthly number of hours it seem. To get it to a guarantee day off each week going to be a heavy lift. The freight railroads are make huge amounts of money right now, so they can give out hiring bonus, but they culture of “do what we say” need to change.

Work schedule that would work.
10 days on, 4 days off.
5 days on, 2 days off.
1 month on, 1 month off.
6 month on, 6 months off.

These are common shifts available in other transportation business.


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## amy1277 (Sep 14, 2022)

Silver Star was just canceled for tomorrow. Today’s was canceled around this time yesterday, so it appears Amtrak is just taking it day by day. Like the rest of us, ha.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of general strike and labor related posts have been moved to a general US railroad labor issues thread:






US railroad labor issues


I hear that one of the main things the conductors and engineers are striking over is having to be available to work most or all of the time; being "on call" forever, I guess. I assume it's because the freight rail lines don't have enough workforce redundancy which I have heard has been a...




www.amtraktrains.com





Please post general railroad labor and strike related posts in that thread and keep this thread for discussing effect on Amtrak service as in cancellations, refunds etc.

Than you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


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## joelkfla (Sep 14, 2022)

amy1277 said:


> Silver Star was just canceled for tomorrow. Today’s was canceled around this time yesterday, so it appears Amtrak is just taking it day by day. Like the rest of us, ha.


They're hoping something develops — like the rest of us.


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## amy1277 (Sep 14, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> They're hoping something develops — like the rest of us.


Absolutely. I’m booked on SS the 17th so I’m definitely glad they’re taking this day by day approach. 
Fingers are crossed for everyone’s sake!


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Long distance cancellation status as of 9/13 11:00 am PT

_ All_ long distance departures cancelled for 9/14.

_NO _long distance departures cancelled for 9/15

They are clearly taking this a day at a time.

Strange situation for today:
I use the "schedules" tab on Amtrak.com for this and, oddly, 11 shows as still operating there. Since it is the only one, I decided to dive deeper and try a phantom reservation SEA-LAX and that resulted in _seven _train 11s, one "sold out" and six cancelled .

So I am taking that as cancelled.

Kudos to Amtrak IT for that moment of entertainment. Most of their comedy has some adverse real world effects, but this one is pretty harmless.


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## thully (Sep 14, 2022)

Looks like all LD trains for tomorrow have been cancelled, along with some corridor trains. No announcement from Amtrak, though it does seem they’ve contacted those with tickets (and the affected trains show as “cancelled” when trying to book a ticket). I noticed that the Wolverine 354 is among the cancellations - 351/352/353 will run (350 was already cancelled for equipment/staffing reasons), though 354 reaches its endpoint after midnight so that makes sense. Though I thought they may run 354 since it would be off Norfolk Southern by 8pm. Also, you’ll end up with equipment out of place with an odd number of trains.


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## thully (Sep 14, 2022)

Also, it looks like there is no contingency plans for the Wolverines at this time. Seems like they could do something like the Surfliners and bus from New Buffalo or some other point in western Michigan to Chicago, but that doesn’t seem to be under consideration.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Taking a cue from @thully and checking my local service, the Cascades. Tomorrow (9/15), the last pair, 507/508 are cancelled, but the other two pairs are running. Makes sense as both 507 and 508 arrive after the 9 pm (PT) strike deadline and the others arrive hours before it.

Going to strand the only operating Talgo, on 503, in Eugene, though. It returns as 508. Going to be interesting how they manage that on the restart.


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## Qapla (Sep 14, 2022)

On the Amtrak site


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## beatles78 (Sep 14, 2022)

jis said:


> Presumably all Amtrak services that are hosted on freight railroads that are struck will cease to run for the duration of the strike.


I have a trip on the City of New Orleans Amtrak on September 30th - I see this line is hosted by the CN railroad -- would this line be safe from the strike?


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## PRR 60 (Sep 14, 2022)

If the strike occurs Friday morning, Amtrak crew bases and other facilities may be subject to picketing by the striking workers. Even though Amtrak is not involved in these negotiations and Amtrak's represented workers will not be striking, spreading the pain to as large an audience as possible is a common tactic to raise public awareness, regardless of legality. This so-called "secondary boycott" action would not be legal and would pretty quickly be halted by injunction. However, until that happens and the picket lines are removed (maybe several hours), Amtrak represented workers (from the same unions as the strikers) would likely refuse to cross the picket lines and service even on the NEC may be temporarily disrupted. It is not certain that this will happen, but I would not 100% count on any Amtrak service anywhere first thing Friday morning.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

beatles78 said:


> I have a trip on the City of New Orleans Amtrak on September 30th - I see this line is hosted by the CN railroad -- would this line be safe from the strike?


No, CN is one of the Class Is involved in this. The CONO is already being cancelled as part of the rolling daily cancellations in anticipation of the strike.

However, by 9/30 this episode of the saga should be over, likely by Congressional action. They can't let it go on for long, the economic damage would be too deep.


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## MARC Rider (Sep 14, 2022)

I saw the Silver Star was cancelled today, per the Departure Board in Washington. As we were leaving Washington, I saw them backing a set of Superliners, presumably the Capitol Limited, into the Station.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Taking a cue from @thully and checking my local service, the Cascades. Tomorrow (9/15), the last pair, 507/508 are cancelled, but the other two pairs are running. Makes sense as both 507 and 508 arrive after the 9 pm (PT) strike deadline and the others arrive hours before it.
> 
> Going to strand the only operating Talgo, on 503, in Eugene, though. It returns as 508. Going to be interesting how they manage that on the restart.


WSDOT posted an alert as well.









Potential for cancelled Amtrak Cascades trains starting Friday, Sept. 16


Update 8:18 a.m. Thursday, Sept. 15 The potential freight railroad strike has been averted. Amtrak Cascades trains between Seattle and Euge...




wsdotblog.blogspot.com


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## coalman (Sep 14, 2022)

I'm waiting for a return call to change reservation due to the impending strike. It said it would be 30 minutes. It's been 2 hours. Should I try calling again or would that make phone wait worse? Is the phone line down due to being swamped is what I'm trying to find out also? I have a 40% off miles CS trip leaving friday morning 9/16. Hoping I can change to later and keep discount.


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## thully (Sep 14, 2022)

I’ve seen some say that the strike only applies to BNSF, UP, CSX, and NS - are they simply overlooking CN/CP because they have less tracks in the US being Canadian? Or is there some difference between the strike impact on those railways?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> WSDOT posted an alert as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interestingly, there was no notice on amtrakcascades.com itself when I looked a few minutes ago.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

thully said:


> I’ve seen some say that the strike only applies to BNSF, UP, CSX, and NS - are they simply overlooking CN/CP because they have less tracks in the US being Canadian? Or is there some difference between the strike impact on those railways?


I think that is probably some bad reporting, likely due to "Canadian" in their names. Most reports I've seen say "six major freight railroads" which, of course, are the Big Six Class Is, BNSF, UP, CSX, NS, CN, and CP.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

coalman said:


> I'm waiting for a return call to change reservation due to the impending strike. It said it would be 30 minutes. It's been 2 hours. Should I try calling again or would that make phone wait worse? Is the phone line down due to being swamped is what I'm trying to find out also? I have a 40% off miles CS trip leaving friday morning 9/16. Hoping I can change to later and keep discount.


I'd call and get in line. If they call back, answer that and drop the wait.

According to their statement, they'll honor the price for a trip rebooked for travel by the end of October. Get in there and grab some space before its gone.


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## glensfallsse (Sep 14, 2022)

Anyone know if the Ethan Allen is defined as a "long-distance train" and would be canceled? It's still showing reservations for Thursday and Friday.


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## Dutchrailnut (Sep 14, 2022)

Amtrak Cancels All Long-Distance Service Nationwide Over Looming Rail Strike


Amtrak has canceled all long-distance trains nationwide starting Thursday, as it prepares for a possible freight-rail strike that would impact its service.




www.nbcnewyork.com


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## coalman (Sep 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I'd call and get in line. If they call back, answer that and drop the wait.
> 
> According to their statement, they'll honor the price for a trip rebooked for travel by the end of October. Get in there and grab some space before itswas not called back after 3 hrs. Made another call, got agent in 20 minutes. Offcially my 9/16 CS not cancelled, but rewards agent tried to rebook me at same points (14K) at very end of Sept. , but she had no roomettes. Online it showed they did have roomettes for 45K points but she could not refund the point difference if I booked online. So, don't wait for call back. Stay online. Wait


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

glensfallsse said:


> Anyone know if the Ethan Allen is defined as a "long-distance train" and would be canceled? It's still showing reservations for Thursday and Friday.


No, it's not, LDs are overnight and the Ethan Allen is a state-supported corridor train. As long as it can get off the CP's trackage well before midnight, it's okay for Thursday. The stretch on CP between Schenectady and where it turns off the Rouses Point line for Vermont is the only part subject to the strike. South of Schenectady, it is on Amtrak and MetroNorth controlled rail, and from where it leaves the Rouses Point line north is a Class II and not involved in this labor dispute (I think).

As to Friday, they are only cancelling the day before. They won't cancel Friday until tomorrow. They still might run it as far as Albany.


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## joelkfla (Sep 14, 2022)

Washington Post (gifted):

Rail systems brace for shutdowns, Amtrak cancels routes as strike threat nears


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## Chris I (Sep 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Interestingly, there was no notice on amtrakcascades.com itself when I looked a few minutes ago.


I think they need to just shut down that website. They are really bad about updating information in a timely matter. It can definitely confuse people.


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## Rover (Sep 14, 2022)

So, let them strike ! ! ! (I've got toilet paper, thank you!!)



> The Biden administration was putting pressure on railroads and unions Wednesday to settle their differences and avert a strike. But just in case that doesn’t work, the administration was also working on a plan to use trucks and planes to move goods that are normally carried by freight railroads.
> 
> The White House is clearly worried that any disruption in supply chains just weeks before the November midterm elections could anger consumers, who are already facing the highest inflation in 40 years. That could hurt Democrats, who are trying to protect razor-thin control of the Senate and House.











EXPLAINER: Rail strike would impact consumers, businesses


Commuters, food producers, refineries and others could all be affected if there is a nationwide rail strike at the end of this week. The Biden administration was putting pressure on railroads and unions Wednesday to settle their differences and avert a strike.




apnews.com


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## b243923 (Sep 14, 2022)

Auto Train in both directions on the Amtrak website says cancelled September 15th, 16 is not marked cancelled yet.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

b243923 said:


> Auto Train in both directions on the Amtrak website says cancelled September 15th, 16 is not marked cancelled yet.


At least people cancelled on Auto Train have alternative transportation


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## iliketrains (Sep 14, 2022)

Amtrak to Suspend Long-Distance Services. I read in the Wall Street Journal.


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## Palmland (Sep 14, 2022)

iliketrains said:


> Amtrak to Suspend Long-Distance Services. I read in the Wall Street Journal.



And here it is, no surprise:

“Amtrak said it would suspend all long-distance train services on Thursday to avoid disruptions from a potential strike by freight rail workers, as negotiations between railroads and labor unions approach a Friday deadline.”


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## Eric in East County (Sep 14, 2022)

Question: what happens if the strike does NOT take place? Will Amtrak reinstate all the long-distance trains it has cancelled? Will Amtrak allow passengers who had reservations on trains that were cancelled to rebook their reservations on the reinstated trains for same dates and accommodations and at the same price originally paid?


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## Chris I (Sep 14, 2022)

> In an effort to not disrupt other unions in the ratification process, an extension has been agreed to until Sept. 29 at 12 p.m. ET., IAM District 19 said in a statement.



Has anyone been able to confirm this little blurb?



https://www.axios.com/2022/09/14/railroad-unions-marty-walsh-rail-strike


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## JoshP (Sep 14, 2022)

Update: As of hour ago, this news came out:

'"The Tentative Agreement has been rejected and the strike authorization vote was approved by IAM District 19 members," IAM District 19 said in a statement. "Out of respect for other unions in the ratification process, an extension has been agreed to until Sept. 29, 2022 at 12 p.m. ET. This extension will allow us to continue to negotiate changes with the NCCC in the hopes of achieving an agreement our membership would ratify.""

Congress said if they all fail not to reach an agreement, they will step in and block the strike and force them to go back to work until the agreement is reached. That date is September 29, 2022.

We hope the strike will be short so Amtrak can resume service in October.


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## thully (Sep 14, 2022)

This link is in the article:






PDGC Kyle Loos release on Ratification Vote on Tentative Agreement. – District-19 IAMAW







districtlodge19.org





Basically, the IAM union membership rejected a tentative agreement that had been reached, but IAM extended their strike deadline to September 29th to not disrupt other unions in the ratification process. Just means that particular union wouldn’t strike until the 29th, though the other 2 without an agreement still could strike Friday.


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## Kbyrdleroydogg (Sep 14, 2022)

I just made reservations for Thursday the 17th with a return for the 19th. Should I cancel it or wait this out?


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## chubbycat (Sep 14, 2022)

thully said:


> This link is in the article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the latest news says: 
1 rail union rejects deal, 2 accept ahead of strike deadline​


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## TinCan782 (Sep 14, 2022)

Kbyrdleroydogg said:


> I just made reservations for Thursday the 17th with a return for the 19th. Should I cancel it or wait this out?


Train, locations? Perhaps calling Amtrak.


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## joelkfla (Sep 14, 2022)

Kbyrdleroydogg said:


> I just made reservations for Thursday the 17th with a return for the 19th. Should I cancel it or wait this out?


Thursday is the 15th.


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## Jack Davis (Sep 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> You need to look at the policy. Some travel insurance exclude losses caused by labor disputes.


The 'other' iconic ground transportation, Greyhound, is still running; maybe not as comfortable as the train but, they'll get you there.


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## beatles78 (Sep 14, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> No, CN is one of the Class Is involved in this. The CONO is already being cancelled as part of the rolling daily cancellations in anticipation of the strike.
> 
> However, by 9/30 this episode of the saga should be over, likely by Congressional action. They can't let it go on for long, the economic damage would be too deep.


OMG nooooooo!  But that is true, about the economy going even further down the toilet, so i'm sure Congress will take action. Thank you for your reply!


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## Jack Davis (Sep 14, 2022)

Palmland said:


> And here it is, no surprise:
> 
> “Amtrak said it would suspend all long-distance train services on Thursday to avoid disruptions from a potential strike by freight rail workers, as negotiations between railroads and labor unions approach a Friday deadline.”


This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


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## beatles78 (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


Sigh. That is ridiculous....


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## Jack Davis (Sep 14, 2022)

beatles78 said:


> Sigh. That is ridiculous....


Yes, it IS.


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## John Bredin (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


If the dispatchers, who are freight railroad employees outside the NEC and a few commuter lines, either strike or honor other rail workers' strike, Amtrak can't run on the freight lines even if there aren't any freight trains in Amtrak's way.


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## Kbyrdleroydogg (Sep 14, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Thursday is the 15th.


I got it all wrong. Its next Thursday the 22nd and the return is the 24th. But with this rail strike that is going on with the freight workers, Amtrak has begun canceling their own long-distance trains and mine is from CHI-NYC. Should I wait this out or just cancel m


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


Amtrak can’t run if there are no train dispatchers or if there are no signal and track personnel to fix issues in the field. They also can’t run if the host railroad can’t assist if a train breaks down. They also do not want people to be stranded for hours or days on a train stuck in the middle of nowhere.


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## TinCan782 (Sep 14, 2022)

Kbyrdleroydogg said:


> I got it all wrong. Its next Thursday the 22nd and the return is the 24th. But with this rail strike that is going on with the freight workers, Amtrak has begun canceling their own long-distance trains and mine is from CHI-NYC. Should I wait this out or just cancel m


You've got a week. If your (non-Amtrak) travel plans are flexible (change without penalty) you could probably ride it out. 
If Amtrak cancels you will be entitled to a full refund; If you cancel, maybe not.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> Yes, it IS.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Kbyrdleroydogg said:


> I got it all wrong. Its next Thursday the 22nd and the return is the 24th. But with this rail strike that is going on with the freight workers, Amtrak has begun canceling their own long-distance trains and mine is from CHI-NYC. Should I wait this out or just cancel m


Wait it out. Maybe put a Plan B in place.

This episode of the saga will likely be over in a week with Congressional action if not settled.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


In addition to dispatchers, this. The MOW people that do it will be out, too.
Class 4 Track​*Type:* Freight/Passenger
*Maximum Freight Speed:* 60 MPH
*Maximum Passenger Speed:* 80 MPH
*Minimum Track Inspection Frequency:*_ Must be inspected twice weekly, _with a continuous search for internal defects in the rail after 40 million gross tons passes over it, or once a year, whichever happens first. Each switch must be inspected every 3 months.

*Notes:* Most track in the US is Class 4.

Everything loses it Class 4 status by early next week at the latest. It then effectively reverts FRA Excepted and illegal to run passenger trains on.

This in addition to not having anyone there to give permission to occupy track.


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## jebr (Sep 14, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


Some freight trains run on Thanksgiving.

This is also an apples to hamburgers comparison. There's still some staff at the railroads to dispatch trains, run the signals, etc. on holidays. With the strike there won't be any of those staff, so Amtrak won't even be able to run on the tracks safely or legally.


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## chrsjrcj (Sep 14, 2022)

Better for _a_ train to be canceled the day before, than be stranded in the middle of Kansas because there is no one to fix a broken signal or switch.


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## Michigan Mom (Sep 14, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> I saw the Silver Star was cancelled today, per the Departure Board in Washington. As we were leaving Washington, I saw them backing a set of Superliners, presumably the Capitol Limited, into the Station.


So the Cap is going to hang out in Washington, not Chicago, it sounds like.


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## Palmland (Sep 14, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> So the Cap is going to hang out in Washington, not Chicago, it sounds like.


Looks like the Capitol Ltd left Washington on time at 4:05. Yet the LSL was canceled?? 

Only reason I can think is that the the eastbound LSL wouldn’t arrive NYP until tomorrow evening. Same situation as the Star. A very delayed train could be affected by the witching hour at midnight tomorrow. They wanted to have both eb and we consists safely at their home terminals before then.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 14, 2022)

Palmland said:


> Looks like the Capitol Ltd left Washington on time at 4:05. Yet the LSL was canceled??
> 
> Only reason I can think is that the the eastbound LSL wouldn’t arrive NYP until tomorrow evening. Same situation as the Star. A very delayed train could be affected by the witching hour at midnight tomorrow. They wanted to have both eb and we consists safely at their home terminals before then.


As I said in a prior post, today's trains were weird. All long distance departures for today were cancelled except for the Capitol Limited and the westbound Cardinal. I can sort of understand the Cardinal, equipment would have been out of position otherwise, since it isn't running daily.

The LSL comes off CSX controlled track at Hoffmans west of Schenectady. It is scheduled into Schenectady at 2:15 pm, well before midnight. From there on to New York it is Amtrak and Metro North controlled rail. Of course, the Boston section is back on CSX after getting off the Post Road branch, and does not arrive until 8:32, which is starting to cut it close, but they could have bustituted that. They do that often enough anyway.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Sep 14, 2022)

Metra's current update (of of 8:00 PM CST, 14.09.2022):






Updated Message to Customers Sept. 15 | Metra







metra.com





Looks like they are going to be able to run more than was expected earlier on local news reports, which is good news for Chicago-area commuters (unless you wanted to use that as an excuse for WFH on Friday).


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## MARC Rider (Sep 14, 2022)

OK, here's what was posted on CNN (presumably, they got this directly from Amtrak)









Amtrak cancels all long-distance trains as freight rail strike looms


Some travelers are scrambling as a possible freight railroad strike interrupts service along Amtrak's long-distance routes. Here's what Amtrak passengers need to know.




www.cnn.com







> The passenger rail carrier said it would only operate trains this week that it "can ensure will have enough time to reach their final destinations by 12:01 a.m. on Friday, Sept. 16."
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...



So, it's true, the Capitol Limited, Cardinal, and Palmetto ran today. (I rode down to Washington of the Palmetto, and it was continuing to Savannah.) They won't be running tomorrow, though. I would suppose that although some of the trains that were cancelled today are scheduled to get to their destinations before 12:01 AM on Friday, Amtrak couldn't be sure, given the lousy on-time performance, and so decided not to take the risk.


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## coalman (Sep 14, 2022)

For curiosity sake, does anyone know of a prediction, Vagas like website with odds on a rail strike? I'd like to see how prediction compares with reality. Something like a 538.com aggregation of opinion. I can't find anything on Google search.


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## NorthShore (Sep 14, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Metra's current update (of of 8:00 PM CST, 14.09.2022):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering if this would end up as the case, especially considering that Metra operates the service, itself, on these lines.


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## MontanaJim (Sep 14, 2022)

Amtrak Vermonter canceled starting Friday for all pts north of New Haven Per website of Vermont Agency of Transportation.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 15, 2022)

Rover said:


> So, let them strike ! ! ! (I've got toilet paper, thank you!!)


Translation: "Never let a disaster go to waste when there's a score to be settled!"



Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


This post reminds me of a word problem in math class where a relatively minor misunderstanding at the beginning snowballs into a string of increasingly severe miscalculations.


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## Qapla (Sep 15, 2022)

Here's a look at the Amtrak map as of today 12:50 AM - very few trains


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 15, 2022)

Qapla said:


> Here's a look at the Amtrak map as of today 12:50 AM - very few trains
> 
> View attachment 29638


Going to be crazy to look at this map if there is no agreement by Friday. Most likely no service at all in the western half of the US.


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## Willbridge (Sep 15, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Going to be crazy to look at this map if there is no agreement by Friday. Most likely no service at all in the western half of the US.


The PDX<>EUG Thruway buses don't show on the map, but they are still to operate. Ditto the SEA<>SPK Thruway bus.


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## Gary Behling (Sep 15, 2022)

dxtrfn said:


> If my trip gets cancelled this would be the latest in a long line of cancellations for me.
> 
> Since 2016
> 
> ...


In my opinion, anyone riding Amtrak 1st Class should simply delay any long distance train trips for at least one year until Amtrak gets their business running correctly. If I spend over $2,000 for a one way trip, having to make those reservations months in advance just to get them, reserve hotel and car rental and suddenly with only one day or less I'm notified that I will be riding some Greyhound bus instead------ Hell no!


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 15, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> The PDX<>EUG Thruway buses don't show on the map, but they are still to operate. Ditto the SEA<>SPK Thruway bus.


 but no trains.


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## Shanson (Sep 15, 2022)

Jack Davis said:


> This baffles me: When the freight trains aren't running (i.e. on Thanksgiving for example) the AMTRAK trains were running on time. Now that the freight trains will not run, AMTRAK is 'afraid' to drive them on the tracks owned by the freight lines? AMTRAK will probably run 'on time' and that's good! But, I suppose, there could be some yahoo out there that might believe, since the freight trains aren't running, no one else can use their track? Good grief.


Hello, Jack, 
Even on those holidays, the dispatchers and maintenance crews are on duty. They are not Amtrak but rather private railroad employees, who won't go to work if a strike is called.


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## Ryan (Sep 15, 2022)

Potential good news:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/15/rail-strike-deal-agreement-biden/





> The White House on Thursday morning announced it had reached a “tentative” agreement to avert a national rail strike that threatened the nation’s economy.
> President Biden said in a statement that the agreement would guarantee “better pay, improved working conditions, and peace of mind around their health care costs” for the workers.
> 
> 
> ...


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Potential good news:
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/15/rail-strike-deal-agreement-biden/


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 15, 2022)

Yay very tentative...Still needs to be voted on though.

AP News: Biden: Tentative railway labor deal reached, averting strike








Tentative labor deal averts threat of nationwide rail strike


WASHINGTON (AP) — Rail companies and their workers reached a tentative agreement Thursday to avert a nationwide strike that could have shut down the nation's freight trains and devastated the economy less than two months before the midterm elections.




apnews.com


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## dennisw (Sep 15, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Yay very tentative...Still needs to be voted on though.
> 
> AP News: Biden: Tentative railway labor deal reached, averting strike
> 
> ...


Or one or more railroad changes their mind about it, which is probably a more likely negative outcome since the proposed agreement seems to give the workers what they've been asking for (e.g., protection from being fired for unpaid sick days). I suspect Amtrak management will be busy today sifting through the situation trying to decide if it's safe to bring LD service back.


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## amy1277 (Sep 15, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Yay very tentative...Still needs to be voted on though.
> 
> AP News: Biden: Tentative railway labor deal reached, averting strike
> 
> ...


Does anyone know when the vote would take place? I assume today?


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## John Bredin (Sep 15, 2022)

The wire story says the vote would be after a cool-off period of a few weeks, so no strike _now_ either way.

The stories I've seen so far _don't_ say how much the unions got on the time-off issue, which was the remaining sticking-point after the PEB recommended pay increases.


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## TheCrescent (Sep 15, 2022)

Has Amtrak cancelled all long distance trains or just some of them?

I have an upcoming trip on the Crescent. My ticket still shows on the Amtrak app, the Amtrak mentions “select” trains being affected by the potential strike and I haven’t received notice of cancellation.

But news reports say that all long-distance trains have been cancelled.

I don’t know who is correct.


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## PVD (Sep 15, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Has Amtrak cancelled all long distance trains or just some of them?
> 
> I have an upcoming trip on the Crescent. My ticket still shows on the Amtrak app, the Amtrak mentions “select” trains being affected by the potential strike and I haven’t received notice of cancellation.
> 
> ...


What day is your trip?


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## lordsigma (Sep 15, 2022)

They are only canceling day by day. If your trip isn't today it's not canceled yet. With the tentative deal hopefully full service will resume tomorrow.


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## thully (Sep 15, 2022)

Also, it does seem like some of today’s trains that were cancelled as of last night are now back on. In particular, I’m seeing the 354 Wolverine available to book when it was cancelled before, and also the eastbound Cardinal. I figure there may not be many people onboard, though they’re probably doing this to get equipment in the right place if nothing else.


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## b243923 (Sep 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> At least people cancelled on Auto Train have alternative transportation


What is the alternative transportation other than driving? That would apply to any of the routes?


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## TheCrescent (Sep 15, 2022)

PVD said:


> What day is your trip?


Thanks. Saturday.


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## lordsigma (Sep 15, 2022)

It appears today's Auto Train departures are reinstated. Sounds like they are going to reach out to people that were affected by today's cancelations.


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## Michigan Mom (Sep 15, 2022)

Well, after time (and some extra expense) rebooking train, hotel and a one way plane ticket, looks like it was for nothing. Could have kept my original booking on the 17th. Kind of irritating but not important in the scheme of things.


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## jis (Sep 15, 2022)

b243923 said:


> What is the alternative transportation other than driving? That would apply to any of the routes?


Clearly that message was posted somewhat in jest considering all Auto Train customers have their cars handy. The comment was about Auto Train, not about all routes.


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## PVD (Sep 15, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Thanks. Saturday.


Pretty likely announcements will come soon on the reinstatement schedule.


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## jis (Sep 15, 2022)

For general information about the current status...









U.S. railroad strike averted by late-night deal


Major U.S. railroads and unions secured a tentative deal after 20 hours of intense talks brokered by the Biden administration to avert a rail shutdown that could have hit food and fuel supplies across the country and beyond.




www.reuters.com





Amtrak is in the process of restoring services that have been canceled to the extent possible, and not doing any further cancellations.


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## joelkfla (Sep 15, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> It appears today's Auto Train departures are reinstated. Sounds like they are going to reach out to people that were affected by today's cancelations.


NY TImes:
Amtrak Is Scrambling to Restore Trains It Had Canceled


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## PVD (Sep 15, 2022)

This is the early AM Amtrak statement:
Freight Railroad Labor Negotiations – Restoration of Amtrak Service
September 15, 7:00 AM ET


Amtrak is working to quickly restore canceled trains and reaching out directly to impacted customers to accommodate on first available departures. Bookmark Amtrak.com/alerts for the latest updates.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Sep 15, 2022)

I haven't heard anything specific about cancellations of Illinois Service trains, which operate on the same tracks as several of the LD routes; however, since cancellations of some of the Wolverine trains in Michigan were mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm assuming that most/all regional trains in Illinois (+ the Missouri River Runner) are temporarily cancelled, too.


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## joelkfla (Sep 15, 2022)

I hope the statement that it will take several weeks for a cooling off period and vote is accurate. That takes a load off my mind. I was worried about getting stranded in CHI, or in WAS on the overnight connection, on my trip the last week of this month.


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## lordsigma (Sep 15, 2022)

It appears the Capitol Limited, and Cardinal departures for today are also reinstated. The Auto Train, Cardinal, and Cap were mid trip from yesterday when the announcement came out so today's trip is still feasible as crew will be in the right places.


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## Widfara (Sep 15, 2022)

I think that cancelling the two-night trip trains was sorta kinda wise, although they could've should've done a better job of explaining why, and given cancelled passengers more assistance in working out alternative travel.
Why do I say this? For the single-nighter trains, getting the passengers to their destination is easier, due to the shorter distances involved. But out west there are miles and miles of miles and miles, and also the equipment would be really out of place.


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## fillyjonk (Sep 15, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I hope the statement that it will take several weeks for a cooling off period and vote is accurate. That takes a load off my mind. I was worried about getting stranded in CHI, or in WAS on the overnight connection, on my trip the last week of this month.


Now my concern is: what if this gets dragged out enough that there's a strike over Thanksgiving? Selfishly, that's when my next trip is planned, and it's too far to drive for me, and trying to figure out how to fly (I am 100 miles from the nearest airport) would be too hard - guess I'd spend another thanksgiving alone like I did in 2020


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## Qapla (Sep 15, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Going to be crazy to look at this map if there is no agreement by Friday. Most likely no service at all in the western half of the US.



More trains on today's map - but still missing many LD trains


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

b243923 said:


> What is the alternative transportation other than driving? That would apply to any of the routes?


Driving _is _an alternative form of transportation and by definition they have cars


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## MccfamschoolMom (Sep 15, 2022)

Just saw a northbound Lincoln Service train going by (slowly, as it had just departed the station here) at approx. 10:50AM, so these regional trains seem to be running as normal. (I'll be watching this afternoon to see if the southbound Texas Eagle goes by, though.)


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## Eric in East County (Sep 15, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> Question: what happens if the strike does NOT take place? Will Amtrak reinstate all the long-distance trains it has cancelled? Will Amtrak allow passengers who had reservations on trains that were cancelled to rebook their reservations on the reinstated trains for same dates and accommodations and at the same price originally paid?


So now what happens?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

Today's (9/15) "late" Cascades pair, 507/508, showing as cancelled yesterday, are now "uncancelled" and show as being operated. The service restorations begin.


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## JoshP (Sep 15, 2022)

Amtrak announced FULL service will be restored as of tomorrow Friday 9/16 starting at 3am, any first train will operate normally.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 15, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> So now what happens?


Amtrak restart there network, maybe some of today’s trains didn’t make it out, but tomorrow all will. If your riding a three night train, it be a few days before your station see a train. If your book for this weekend, enjoy your travels. If your leaving a terminal today, might want to check. If your were canceled and have not rebooked, call Amtrak.

The question is very broad, so no blanket answer available. This going to be a mess for a few days. Those longer route trains are starting to leave today if all goes well.


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## moosejunky99 (Sep 15, 2022)

luckily they settled and i can make it home on Sunday aboard the capital limited. right now I'm crossing at over 100mph on acela train. nice ride.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Sep 15, 2022)

All good news.

We might even see more trains out at one time than we have for ages!


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

Long distance cancellation status 9/15 11 am PT

Thursday 9/15
Capitol Limited and eastbound Cardinal running

_All _other LD departures remain cancelled.

Friday 9/16
All LDs departures are good. Normal service.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 15, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Long distance cancellation status 9/15 11 am PT
> 
> Thursday 9/15
> Capitol Limited and eastbound Cardinal running
> ...


Yeah going to take a day to kickstart it.
Wonder if any Amtrak OBS are taken airplane to there trains?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 15, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> Just saw a northbound Lincoln Service train going by (slowly, as it had just departed the station here) at approx. 10:50AM, so these regional trains seem to be running as normal. (I'll be watching this afternoon to see if the southbound Texas Eagle goes by, though.)


Not till Friday!


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## Amtraknofly (Sep 15, 2022)

So, do y'all think it's safe to book for first week in October?....Is the deal done for sure? I haven't seen the news today. Need to go from Charleston to DC or Philly and rent a car from there to enjoy some fall


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## tiffany07 (Sep 15, 2022)

can anyone give advice if october trains should still run as normal? i know they still have to vote and from what i’ve read it’s very likely an agreement will be reached but if not the tentative agreement ends 2 weeks before my trip. going to nyp from georgia aboard the crescent  there’s still time to cancel and drive to was and book a train from there but i’d prefer the longer ride on the train and not driving at all.


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## joelkfla (Sep 15, 2022)

Just now on CNN, Secy. of Labor Walsh, who was leading yesterday's negotiations, said the ratification process should take 6 weeks to 2 months. Sounds like we should be good until at at least the end of October.

He said that he thinks it is a good contract, and feels "the chances are very good of ratifying these contracts."


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

I seem to recall all parties agreed to another cooling off period of 30 or 60 days to renegotiate and not immediately strike if the membership doesn't ratify this agreement.

Between the time required to have the ratification elections and the subsequent cooling of period, the next couple months look pretty safe to me.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 15, 2022)

Amtraknofly said:


> So, do y'all think it's safe to book for first week in October?....Is the deal done for sure? I haven't seen the news today. Need to go from Charleston to DC or Philly and rent a car from there to enjoy some fall


Go for it.


tiffany07 said:


> can anyone give advice if october trains should still run as normal? i know they still have to vote and from what i’ve read it’s very likely an agreement will be reached but if not the tentative agreement ends 2 weeks before my trip. going to nyp from georgia aboard the crescent  there’s still time to cancel and drive to was and book a train from there but i’d prefer the longer ride on the train and not driving at all.


Go for it.

Ok that said you might catch a hurricane or early snow storm, or some other interruptions. This labor action is in a good spot. So go for it.


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## thully (Sep 15, 2022)

I’ve kind of had the same concern - while there is a tentative agreement, I’ve seen reports of railroad workers not happy with the agreement, and it seems there is a chance one or more unions reject it. While I’ve generally heard several weeks, I’ve also heard the end of the month - which may be based on the IAM union previously rejecting a tentative agreement and setting a new deadline of September 29th. Any ideas as to where this fits into the equation - could this union strike alone (and would that cause Amtrak to shut down), or could others strike on the 29th?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 15, 2022)

The agreement IAM membership rejected was basically the PEB's recommended agreement. AFAIK it was superceded by the one negotiated overnight and announced this morning. This is a new and different contract and probably fulfills the demand of a different contract negotiated by September 29th, so that deadline would now be moot.

The negotiations were with all 12 of the unions, not with just the two whose leadership rejected the PEB recommendations AFAIK.

If any one of the bargaining units strikes, they'll all walk out because they respect each others picket lines.

I am reasonably sure the railroads, unions and particularly Secretary of Labor Wash and President Biden didn't want to leave a time bomb set to go off in two weeks laying around. The Administration's concern wasn't about Amtrak, but the US economy.

Yes, this agreement needs to ratified and could be voted down, but it isn't on a 9/29 timeframe.


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## thully (Sep 15, 2022)

I know Amtrak wasn’t really a major concern with these negotiations - long distance Amtrak passengers are a drop in the bucket compared to freight rail and it’s impact on the economy, and I know they probably don’t want this to become a problem again before the midterm elections. Was really just speaking to the topic of this thread and concerns about October trips,…


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## Amtrak25 (Sep 15, 2022)

I was watching MSNBC Ari Melber at 6pm ET interviewing Howard Dean and Michale Steele. They said the basic things that the strike was averted by a tenative deal. Also said Biden was a train guy, which got on the subject of riding Amtrak up and down the NEC. Steele said he used to meet Biden quite often on the train.

Melber and Steele both said they travel NY - DC a lot and why does the snack bar alawys open so late and close so early - is it a policy issue. What do you do for snack. They mentioned their favorite snack to bring along, not reliant on the cafe car. 

So they got off topic very quickly and talked about Amtrak, not that the NEC would have shut down.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 15, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> So they got off topic very quickly and talked about Amtrak, not that the NEC would have shut down.


The NEC would not have shut down if the strike had occurred. (Perhaps I’m misreading what you wrote)


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 15, 2022)

Right now everything remains tentative and needs to be approved by the rank and file, but demonstrable progress was made on core issues and any group that backs out risks a worse outcome. My hope is the tentative agreement holds for the benefit of all sides and for the health of our economy.


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## pennyk (Sep 16, 2022)

This thread is temporarily (hopefully permanently) locked. Off topic posts will either be moved or removed. If you have questions about a situation particular to you, please post that question in a relevant thread.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Update: Because of current interest and relevance, this thread is being reopened.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Oct 26, 2022)

Do we still have a strike thread? Just heard that there is still a potential strike based on a few unions rejecting the offered deal. 

(mods, please move to appropriate thread if we have one still)


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## GDRRiley (Oct 26, 2022)

We've got a growing chance of one in early December
Which would really screw up UPS, USPS, Fedex and all others trying to move mail and packages for deliveries to homes.


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## fillyjonk (Oct 27, 2022)

Welp, I may be spending Thanksgiving and Christmas at home, all alone, again, just like I did in 2020. But this time because of a strike instead of a virus.

I kind of hate everything right now. Once my mom's gone, I will have no one to spend the holidays with so I'm trying to maximize the holidays with her while I have her (it's too far to drive and I can't afford plane tickets now EVEN IF I could find one and get myself to the airport with scary city traffic)


I just read a story, that if a strike starts it will be on the 19th. I don't know if they mean at midnight (so, would the train I was on - I get on on the 18th - just stop dead somewhere in Arkansas) or if they mean late in the day. If a strike looks likely, I'm still going, I'll just figure out how to finish out my teaching semester virtually if it comes to that; time with family is more important to me and like I said, too far to drive and don't want to fly)


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## Mystic River Dragon (Oct 27, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> Welp, I may be spending Thanksgiving and Christmas at home, all alone, again, just like I did in 2020. But this time because of a strike instead of a virus.
> 
> I kind of hate everything right now. Once my mom's gone, I will have no one to spend the holidays with so I'm trying to maximize the holidays with her while I have her (it's too far to drive and I can't afford plane tickets now EVEN IF I could find one and get myself to the airport with scary city traffic)
> 
> ...



Lots of logistics—but you have your priorities right. Time with your mother is more important than anything else.

Wishing you a good travel solution and a lovely visit with your mother.


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## Chatter163 (Oct 27, 2022)

GDRRiley said:


> We've got a growing chance of one in early December
> Which would really screw up UPS, USPS, Fedex and all others trying to move mail and packages for deliveries to homes.


While I agree that december is more likely, the sixty-day cooling off period is up on 16 November, so theoretically the strike could occur anytime after that. 








A second railroad union votes down labor deal needed to avoid nationwide strike


A second rail union, Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, voted overwhelmingly to reject a deal with railroad companies needed to avert a nationwide strike.




www.cnbc.com


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## GDRRiley (Oct 27, 2022)

Chatter163 said:


> While I agree that december is more likely, the sixty-day cooling off period is up on 16 November, so theoretically the strike could occur anytime after that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was basing that off 1 of the unions remarks, it maybe able to be sooner



fillyjonk said:


> I just read a story, that if a strike starts it will be on the 19th. I don't know if they mean at midnight (so, would the train I was on - I get on on the 18th - just stop dead somewhere in Arkansas) or if they mean late in the day. If a strike looks likely, I'm still going, I'll just figure out how to finish out my teaching semester virtually if it comes to that; time with family is more important to me and like I said, too far to drive and don't want to fly)


Amtrak pre cancels them so people and equipment doesn't get stuck in random places

I highly doubt it will happen as this will destroy what little good will the class 1 have left with their shippers and its going to hurt the country far more than the 2B a day estimate


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## IanDBeacon (Oct 27, 2022)

Chatter163 said:


> While I agree that december is more likely, the sixty-day cooling off period is up on 16 November, so theoretically the strike could occur anytime after that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually November 19.

And that reminds me, I'm going out to Savannah, GA and West Palm Beach, FL Nov 13-17, perhaps I should book a backup flight from MIA-MCO just in case?


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## zephyr17 (Oct 27, 2022)

I arrive home from my NYP-EVR trip on November 15th, so I should be beating any cancellations.


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## Chatter163 (Oct 28, 2022)

IanDBeacon said:


> Actually November 19.
> 
> And that reminds me, I'm going out to Savannah, GA and West Palm Beach, FL Nov 13-17, perhaps I should book a backup flight from MIA-MCO just in case?


I’m guessing that it won’t be until after Thanksgiving. I’ve had tickets on the Crescent for months.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 28, 2022)

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why railroad management has chosen this particular hill to die on. It seems some concessions on time off for employees would have gained them a lot of goodwill as well as avoiding what could be a catastrophic hot on our economy.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 28, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I guess I'm having trouble understanding why railroad management has chosen this particular hill to die on. It seems some concessions on time off for employees would have gained them a lot of goodwill as well as avoiding what could be a catastrophic hot on our economy.


Obviously, management think's it's not going to be the one who "dies on the hill," they think they can blame this on "selfish" unions. And over the past 40 years or so, labor has been getting weaker and weaker, so perhaps the American people will also end up blaming labor on whatever economic disaster might emerge from this. Anyway, I don't think the class I railroads really care about "goodwill," they have a monopoly after all, and there is a subset of powerful people and interests who don't really care about being loved -- what they care about is being feared.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 28, 2022)

Trains mag article that says strike is inevitable

Trains article


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## tricia (Oct 28, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Trains mag article that says strike is inevitable
> 
> Trains article



But at least not until sometime in December, according to the article: "A strike isn’t imminent. The status quo period for BMWED will expire on Nov. 19 and for BRS on Dec. 4, according to the Railway Labor Conference. If the operating craft agreements fail to ratify when the votes are counted on Nov. 21, they have a status quo period extension that would run into December."


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## Michigan Mom (Oct 29, 2022)

That article is an eye opener. Appreciate it being shared here. Have not seen much of anything in the way of news coverage.
It sounds like a continuation of the earlier conversation - that the stalemate is not about salary anymore, it's the QOL issues with not having paid sick time. Rank and file membership may have reached their limit regardless of what agreement was reached earlier, especially if the key issues were only postponed and not addressed. The RRs are willing to absorb a salary bump but they'll do anything, it seems, to avoid hiring enough people to cover paid time off. Clearly, people are expensive, and again, no matter how much profit they rake in, the wealthy are never contented to have less of it. Thus, they have no moral problems abusing the humans who are left - it's cheaper to force them to submit. I wonder if they're still making the trains longer and longer, too.


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## joelkfla (Oct 30, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Anyway, I don't think the class I railroads really care about "goodwill," they have a monopoly after all, and there is a subset of powerful people and interests who don't really care about being loved -- what they care about is being feared.


That was quuite clear in the FRA hearings on freight railroad problems earlier this year. Except what they care most about is short-term profits.


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## jpakala (Oct 30, 2022)

Congress from what I understand will prevent a stoppage disaster. As with the situation last month the government may wait longer than it should, which can mean Amtrak must hold off on saying trains for sure will be running.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 30, 2022)

jpakala said:


> Congress from what I understand will prevent a stoppage disaster. As with the situation last month the government may wait longer than it should, which can mean Amtrak must hold off on saying trains for sure will be running.


Amtrak has to cancel the trains in advance so that crew, passengers, and equipment aren't stuck in the middle of nowhere. For a train with a 3-day run, that means they need to cancel them days in advance. Even if the two sides come to an agreement or Congress imposes a settlement, it may well happen at the last minute, long after the Amtrak trains need to be off the road.

One question, not mentioned so far, is if there's a strike, will Amtrak lay off employees? And if they do that, will that exacerbate the staffing shortages they already have once the strike is over.


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## joelkfla (Oct 30, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Amtrak has to cancel the trains in advance so that crew, passengers, and equipment aren't stuck in the middle of nowhere. For a train with a 3-day run, that means they need to cancel them days in advance. Even if the two sides come to an agreement or Congress imposes a settlement, it may well happen at the last minute, long after the Amtrak trains need to be off the road.
> 
> One question, not mentioned so far, is if there's a strike, will Amtrak lay off employees? And if they do that, will that exacerbate the staffing shortages they already have once the strike is over.


If there is a strike, it would be nice if Amtrak could continue repairing and inspecting its rolling stock.

Are Amtrak's shop workers in the same union as the freights'? Would they also go out? Would the freight unions set up picket lines at Amtrak shops?


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## zephyr17 (Oct 30, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> If there is a strike, it would be nice if Amtrak could continue repairing and inspecting its rolling stock.
> 
> Are Amtrak's shop workers in the same union as the freights'? Would they also go out? Would the freight unions set up picket lines at Amtrak shops?


Amtrak isn't going to be struck. Since it isn't the target of a strike, if the unions call a strike against the freight railroads, union members will still report to work at Amtrak even when in the same Union. That is why Amtrak could maintain service in the NEC and I know the T&E crews are in the same union.

The exception will be in cases the freight railroads and Amtrak share the same facility. In that case, Amtrak union members will honor the picket line. However, I think all Amtrak shops are exclusively Amtrak facilities. The unions shouldn't set up a picket line at a company not being struck.


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## Trogdor (Oct 30, 2022)

jpakala said:


> Congress from what I understand will prevent a stoppage disaster. As with the situation last month the government may wait longer than it should, which can mean Amtrak must hold off on saying trains for sure will be running.



I’m curious how anyone can be particularly confident of what congress will do, if it isn’t something they’ve already voted on.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 30, 2022)

jpakala said:


> Congress from what I understand will prevent a stoppage disaster. As with the situation last month the government may wait longer than it should, which can mean Amtrak must hold off on saying trains for sure will be running.


It has to have 60 votes in the Senate to break a filibuster. That is by no means guaranteed in today's political environment, despite the ramifications of a strike.

The government did not take any action itself the last time. The NRLB mediated talks between the parties and pressure was brought by elected officials, but not an action like enforcing a settlement.

Congress has the power to force a settlement. Whether they will be able to under current political conditions is another question entirely.


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## John819 (Oct 31, 2022)

The NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) has nothing to do with labor relations on railroads and airlines. The NMB (National Mediation Board) handles these entities.

As far as Congress imposing a settlement, that would require either the Democrats (pro labor) or the Republicans (pro management) to give in on the substantive terms. What would be more likely (and possible) would be for Congress to create a panel with the power to dictate terms of a new contract. However, as any strike in December would occur after the Christmas shipments to stores had occurred, it is not beyond imagination that Congress would allow a strike to run until the next Congress takes office in 2023, when the lack of shipments of coal to power plants and food would create critical shortages.


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## joelkfla (Oct 31, 2022)

John819 said:


> However, as any strike in December would occur after the Christmas shipments to stores had occurred, it is not beyond imagination that Congress would allow a strike to run until the next Congress takes office in 2023, when the lack of shipments of coal to power plants and food would create critical shortages.


It's not just coal & food. As I learned watching the FRA freight hearings, municipal water treatment plants rely heavily on the freights for delivery of chemicals essential to creating safe drinking water.


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## fengshui (Oct 31, 2022)

There are a lot of unknowns with a possible December stoppage. It's post election and post holiday-shopping, so the impact is slightly reduced. It's during the holidays, so some rail shippers might be more willing to accept delivery delays with factories running shorter/reduced shifts. It's a lame-duck session, so congress may be more willing to make unpopular choices (whether that's allowing the strike to happen, or forcing through a deal.) Hard to say what the ultimate outcome will be.

I have holiday train travel planned, so I'm really hoping that my trip is still on, but I'm very happy I have fully-refundable Southwest tickets in hand, in case the train is canceled.


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## Hans627 (Nov 25, 2022)

If a strike happens on the Dec. 9th what would happen to the Auto Train that departs the 8th and arrives in the morning of the 9th?


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## jis (Nov 25, 2022)

Hans627 said:


> If a strike happens on the Dec. 9th what would happen to the Auto Train that departs the 8th and arrives in the morning of the 9th?


It most likely won't depart on December 8th if a strike happens or is likely to start on December 9th. Amtrak starts cancelling trains a day or two before a likely strike in order to not strand anyone en route.


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## 01piglet_patinas (Nov 25, 2022)

Newest possible rail strike https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/business/railroad-unions-votes/index.html
America faces a possible rail strike in two weeks after largest union rejects labor deal
By Chris Isidore and Vanessa Yurkevich, CNN Business
Updated 2:14 PM EST, Mon November 21, 2022


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## joelkfla (Nov 25, 2022)

Hans627 said:


> If a strike happens on the Dec. 9th what would happen to the Auto Train that departs the 8th and arrives in the morning of the 9th?


And remember that a strike doesn't need to actually occur for trains to be cancelled. If a strike has been threatened for a certain date but Congress steps in to prevent it on the day before, Amtrak likely will already have started cancelling trains, and it will take a couple of days to get everything running normally again.

Also, at this time some of the unions can legally strike as early as 12/5, and if one union strikes, all will honor the picket lines.


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## Hans627 (Nov 25, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> And remember that a strike doesn't need to actually occur for trains to be cancelled. If a strike has been threatened for a certain date but Congress steps in to prevent it on the day before, Amtrak likely will already have started cancelling trains, and it will take a couple of days to get everything running normally again.
> 
> Also, at this time some of the unions can legally strike as early as 12/5, and if one union strikes, all will honor the picket lines.


So we have reservations on the Auto Train leaving LOR on 12/8. Do you think I should be concerned?


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## 5280 Guy (Nov 25, 2022)

I hope there isn't a strike for all the important reasons. 
On a far lesser note, I have a roundtrip coming up from December 5th through the 6th. I have heard that any strike would start on the 9th or so.
If it's going to happen, any thoughts if Amtrak would start canceling routes ahead of time? It's one thing if they shut it down, but it would less fun to be stranded.


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## zetharion (Nov 25, 2022)

For the rail strike scare that was what a month or two ago? Amtrak only cancelled routes for like the day of or day before if I remember right so I would think you are good barring any equipment issues as always.


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## moselman66 (Nov 25, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> I hope there isn't a strike for all the important reasons.
> On a far lesser note, I have a roundtrip coming up from December 5th through the 6th. I have heard that any strike would start on the 9th or so.
> If it's going to happen, any thoughts if Amtrak would start canceling routes ahead of time? It's one thing if they shut it down, but it would less fun to be stranded.


What route are you taking? Assuming they do as they did a couple of months back in this situation they started winding down the long distances trains a couple of days ahead to avoid any getting stranded. You'll likely be just fine on the 6th, especially if you're not on a long-distance train originating on the 6th. Even that is likely to be okay, but if you're on anything shorter there should be no worry whatsoever.


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## 5280 Guy (Nov 25, 2022)

moselman66 said:


> What route are you taking? Assuming they do as they did a couple of months back in this situation they started winding down the long distances trains a couple of days ahead to avoid any getting stranded. You'll likely be just fine on the 6th, especially if you're not on a long-distance train originating on the 6th. Even that is likely to be okay, but if you're on anything shorter there should be no worry whatsoever.


Thanks for the info. I will be on the C.Z. going from Denver to Glenwood Springs and back. Could be a close shave.


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## joelkfla (Nov 26, 2022)

Hans627 said:


> So we have reservations on the Auto Train leaving LOR on 12/8. Do you think I should be concerned?


Depends on your tolerance for risk.

Personally, I would be concerned, but not yet panicked. Maybe start looking at alternate plans to cancel the trip or find other ways of getting there if things are looking bad a few days before. Some people might secure a refundable reservation on a flight,

Since you're on the Auto Train, driving is always an alternative.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

zetharion said:


> For the rail strike scare that was what a month or two ago? Amtrak only cancelled routes for like the day of or day before if I remember right so I would think you are good barring any equipment issues as always.


Amtrak cancelled all long distance trains that would arrive at their terminals within 24 hours of the strike deadline the last time around. That was to eliminate the possibility of even a severely late train getting marooned. The last "2 night" long distance trains departed 4 days before the strike deadline.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> I hope there isn't a strike for all the important reasons.
> On a far lesser note, I have a roundtrip coming up from December 5th through the 6th. I have heard that any strike would start on the 9th or so.
> If it's going to happen, any thoughts if Amtrak would start canceling routes ahead of time? It's one thing if they shut it down, but it would less fun to be stranded.


Assuming the strike deadline is 12:01 am ET on 12/9 and also assuming Amtrak does what they did the last time, the last 5 and 6 will depart Chicago and Emeryville respectively on 12/5. That means the last 5 will depart Denver westbound and the last 6 will depart Glenwood Springs eastbound on 12/6.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

Hans627 said:


> So we have reservations on the Auto Train leaving LOR on 12/8. Do you think I should be concerned?


Yes, if it isn't settled by a couple of days before, the 12/8 Auto Train _will_ be cancelled, assuming a strike deadline of 12:01 am ET 12/9. If it is settled at the very last minute, it will probably have already been cancelled and would likely remain so.

Don't do anything, though. If it is cancelled, Amtrak will automatically process a full refund and you can just drive.


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## lordsigma (Nov 26, 2022)

And cancellations will be day by day once they begin IE they aren’t going to cancel 5 days at once so that they can resume service as soon as it’s resolved. Last time they actually uncanceled a couple trains on the day the strike was resolved - the strike was resolved just a couple hours after they canceled trains . Last time the Auto Train did not miss a run - the one canceled run was uncanceled. The Auto Train was in the group trains that they held out the longest for. I believe also the Palmetto and the Capitol.


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## 5280 Guy (Nov 26, 2022)

Thanks, everyone. They are now saying that walkouts could start as early as 12/5.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> Thanks, everyone. They are now saying that walkouts could start as early as 12/5.


I've heard both dates. I am sure we'll get a firm strike deadline. It won't be a surprise. Four days before the actual deadline is will be Amtrak's last CZs until the strike threat passes.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 26, 2022)

If the strike should start on December 5, would the Ethan Allen still run from New York City to Vermont on Thursday, December 1?

I have a friend who needs to go home to upstate New York on the EA on December 1. Is that cutting it too close? Or would the shorter-distance (not two-night) trains most likely still run that day?


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> If the strike should start on December 5, would the Ethan Allen still run from New York City to Vermont on Thursday, December 1?
> 
> I have a friend who needs to go home to upstate New York on the EA on December 1. Is that cutting it too close? Or would the shorter-distance (not two-night) trains most likely still run that day?


Again, if Amtrak follows the pattern they did the last time, the trains that don't run overnight will run up to the day before day when the midnight strike deadline is overnight that night (that would be 12/3 for a strike deadline at 12:01 am 12/5, aka midnight 12/4). Some shorter runs will even run early the day of the midnight deadline. The morning Cascades were scheduled to run the last time, for instance, but the afternoon runs were cancelled. Those were reinstated when the strike was averted.

Also Empire Service trains will likely only be cancelled past Albany, same as last time. The MetroNorth and Amtrak controlled Hudson Line will not be affected by the strike.


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## Oreius (Nov 26, 2022)

I am booked on the Silver Star for 12/2 from Philadelphia to Kissimmee. Any chance my trip will be affected by a possible freight rail strike? That’s only 6 days away. What about my upcoming Acela trip on 12/9?


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## zephyr17 (Nov 26, 2022)

Oreius said:


> I am booked on the Silver Star for 12/2 from Philadelphia to Kissimmee. Any chance my trip will be affected by a possible freight rail strike? That’s only 6 days away. What about my upcoming Acela trip on 12/9?


If strike deadline is 12:01 am 12/5, the last Silvers will likely depart their terminals 12/2 to arrive 12/3.

Acelas should not be affected as they operate exclusively on Amtrak and MetroNorth controlled trackage.


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## Laurajeantx (Nov 27, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I've heard both dates. I am sure we'll get a firm strike deadline. It won't be a surprise. Four days before the actual deadline is will be Amtrak's last CZs until the strike threat passes.


We are set to return from DC on 12/5 to arrive in Orlando 12/6 on the Meteor. We took travel ins this time. Hoping no walk outs start that early.


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## Hans627 (Nov 27, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> Thanks, everyone. They are now saying that walkouts could start as early as 12/5.


According to this interview with this union president all the unions will strike on 12/9 if they do so. watch


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## joelkfla (Nov 27, 2022)

Hans627 said:


> According to this interview with this union president all the unions will strike on 12/9 if they do so. watch


Mike Baldwin, the president of the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, is quite definitive here in saying all of the unions have agreed to 12/9. Sounds like a set deal to me.

Thanks for posting this.


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## John819 (Nov 27, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Mike Baldwin, the president of the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, is quite definitive here in saying all of the unions have agreed to 12/9. Sounds like a set deal to me.
> 
> Thanks for posting this.


12/9 makes sense if the unions are hoping for Congress to resolve the issue in their favor. This would be added to the list of "must pass" legislation (which might get packaged in one giant "Christmas Tree" bill) - funding the government, raising the debt ceiling, fixing the Electoral Count Act, and giving protection to same-sex marriage. The funding deadline is 12/16, but the Representatives and Senators would like to go home as soon as possible.


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## RovinMoses (Nov 27, 2022)

Making alternate flight plans LAX-PDX on 12-8! Scheduled for CS departing 12-8. Dang!!


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## Amtrak25 (Nov 27, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Again, if Amtrak follows the pattern they did the last time, the trains that don't run overnight will run up to the day before day when the midnight strike deadline is overnight that night (that would be 12/3 for a strike deadline at 12:01 am 12/5, aka midnight 12/4). Some shorter runs will even run early the day of the midnight deadline. The morning Cascades were scheduled to run the last time, for instance, but the afternoon runs were cancelled. Those were reinstated when the strike was averted.
> 
> Also Empire Service trains will likely only be cancelled past Albany, same as last time. The MetroNorth and Amtrak controlled Hudson Line will not be affected by the strike.



I suspect they could run a few trains to Schnectady, top-and tailed, but won't bother.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 27, 2022)

Amtrak25 said:


> I suspect they could run a few trains to Schnectady, top-and tailed, but won't bother.


Yeah, they could run into Schenectady since the line is Amtrak dispatched and maintained as far as Hoffmans west of there. But I agree that they almost certainly will not.


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## Amtrak25 (Nov 27, 2022)

Too much trouble to add an engine on the rear and do a crew change to go 18 miles.

VIA Rail will probably be compelled to run a stub (kicking and screaming) north of Niagara Falls, ON.


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## 5280 Guy (Nov 27, 2022)

So they always finish runs when there is a strike? That would make sense. The CZ stopping in McCook, NE and telling everyone to get out and then tying down the train wouldn't make sense.


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## Amtrak25 (Nov 27, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> So they always finish runs when there is a strike? That would make sense. The CZ stopping in McCook, NE and telling everyone to get out and then tying down the train wouldn't make sense.


You obviously do not reserve or allow boarding for anyone beyond the train's planned terminus. If they can truncate a Niagara Falls train at Albany, they can terminate others at St Paul and KC until they cannot do so, which is later than 4 days prior to strike deadline.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 27, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> So they always finish runs when there is a strike? That would make sense. The CZ stopping in McCook, NE and telling everyone to get out and then tying down the train wouldn't make sense.


Once the strike begins, the trains stop wherever they are. That is why Amtrak proactively canceled trains a few days before the last potential strike deadline - so they would complete their runs before the strike begins.


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## John Bobinyec (Nov 27, 2022)

It should be noted that Amtrak and their people are not going on strike. But for their trains running on the other railroads, if they encounter a red signal somewhere, it'll likely stay that way until the strike is over. By that time the Amtrak crew will have run out of time.

jb


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## zephyr17 (Nov 27, 2022)

John Bobinyec said:


> It should be noted that Amtrak and their people are not going on strike. But for their trains running on the other railroads, if they encounter a red signal somewhere, it'll likely stay that way until the strike is over. By that time the Amtrak crew will have run out of time.
> 
> jb


And they would encounter that red signal almost immediately on commencement of a strike and likely a bit before. In CTC territory, the dispatchers will not leave any routes clear when they walk out. In non-CTC territory they will not be there to issue track warrants, so no way to get permission to occupy main track.


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## fdaley (Nov 27, 2022)

When there was a strike threatened in September, the strike deadline was on a Friday, the same as next month's deadline. Many LD trains made their last departures from home terminals on Tuesday. I happened to be taking the Lake Shore from Boston to Albany that Tuesday, and it turned out to be the last run of the LSL for several days. At South Station, passengers taking 449 were being warned that there would be no connecting trains south or west from Chicago. So, if we push right up to the deadline this time, anyone with reservations departing 12/7 or 12/8, maybe even 12/6 for some of the two-night runs, could potentially need a backup plan.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 27, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> So they always finish runs when there is a strike? That would make sense. The CZ stopping in McCook, NE and telling everyone to get out and then tying down the train wouldn't make sense.


That's why they cancel any long distance trains that are not scheduled to arrive before roughly 24 hours prior to the announced strike deadline.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 27, 2022)

fdaley said:


> When there was a strike threatened in September, the strike deadline was on a Friday, the same as next month's deadline. Many LD trains made their last departures from home terminals on Tuesday. I happened to be taking the Lake Shore from Boston to Albany that Tuesday, and it turned out to be the last run of the LSL for several days. At South Station, passengers taking 449 were being warned that there would be no connecting trains south or west from Chicago. So, if we push right up to the deadline this time, anyone with reservations departing 12/7 or 12/8, maybe even 12/6 for some of the two-night runs, could potentially need a backup plan.


Realistically, the strike deadline was midnight ET Thursday night (12:01 am Friday). They cancelled any long distance scheduled to arrive on Thursday or later, to avoid any possibility of having a severely delayed train on the road at midnight Thursday. So the last 1 night LD trains were dispatched on Tuesday scheduled to arrive Wednesday, but the last 2 night trains were dispatched on Monday, also scheduled to arrive Wednesday.

4 days before will be the last 2 night LDs, 3 days before the last 1 night LDs.


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## lordsigma (Nov 27, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Realistically, the strike deadline was midnight ET Thursday night (12:01 am Friday). They cancelled any long distance scheduled to arrive on Thursday or later, to avoid any possibility of having a severely delayed train on the road at midnight Thursday. So the last 1 night LD trains were dispatched on Tuesday scheduled to arrive Wednesday, but the last 2 night trains were dispatched on Monday, also scheduled to arrive Wednesday.
> 
> 4 days before will be the last 2 night LDs, 3 days before the last 1 night LDs.



3 days before for the longer 1 night Lds (Crescent, Silvers, Eagle etc.)

2 days before for the shorter LDs (Which I believe was the Auto Train, Palmetto, City of New Orleans, and Capitol Limited.) 

The 2 day ones were canceled the day before the strike but because it was resolved shortly thereafter they actually “uncanceled” the 2 day ones even after they had started issuing refunds and opened them back up for bookings for people that wanted to rebook. Those 2 day ones didn’t miss a run.


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## Oreius (Nov 27, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Mike Baldwin, the president of the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, is quite definitive here in saying all of the unions have agreed to 12/9. Sounds like a set deal to me.


 So, I will be okay for my trip on the Silver Star departing on 12/2?


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## joelkfla (Nov 27, 2022)

Oreius said:


> So, I will be okay for my trip on the Silver Star departing on 12/2?


If you believe the union boss, yes.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 28, 2022)

Oreius said:


> So, I will be okay for my trip on the Silver Star departing on 12/2?


If a 12/9 12:01 am ET strike deadline, yes.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 28, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> 3 days before for the longer 1 night Lds (Crescent, Silvers, Eagle etc.)
> 
> 2 days before for the shorter LDs (Which I believe was the Auto Train, Palmetto, City of New Orleans, and Capitol Limited.)
> 
> The 2 day ones were canceled the day before the strike but because it was resolved shortly thereafter they actually “uncanceled” the 2 day ones even after they had started issuing refunds and opened them back up for bookings for people that wanted to rebook. Those 2 day ones didn’t miss a run.



Thank you. This is the clearest summary I have seen.


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## fillyjonk (Nov 29, 2022)

I am going to be so sad if this happens. Yes, I get that the workers need sick days. Yes, I get the management is saying they've made enough concessions. But my mom is 86, this may be one of the last Christmases I get with her, it's too far for me to drive safely, I WON'T take the bus (had a bad experience doing that in the past), and I have no way to get to an airport (and would not want to leave my car for two weeks in "paid parking" that would cost as much as my plane ticket, probably) even if I could *afford* a plane ticket at this point. 

My tickets are for the 17th, my only hope is either the strike is averted or if it happens, it's short enough that Amtrak just doesn't cancel - 'cos if they do, I bet I don't have a prayer of getting a new ticket before Christmas even if they did settle 

it's just....it's been a really hard 3 years and I just look at the Universe now and go "this? this TOO, I am going to have to deal with THIS"

and yet at the same time, yes: I feel selfish and self-absorbed and guilty for being unhappy about this


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## lordsigma (Nov 29, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> I am going to be so sad if this happens. Yes, I get that the workers need sick days. Yes, I get the management is saying they've made enough concessions. But my mom is 86, this may be one of the last Christmases I get with her, it's too far for me to drive safely, I WON'T take the bus (had a bad experience doing that in the past), and I have no way to get to an airport (and would not want to leave my car for two weeks in "paid parking" that would cost as much as my plane ticket, probably) even if I could *afford* a plane ticket at this point.
> 
> My tickets are for the 17th, my only hope is either the strike is averted or if it happens, it's short enough that Amtrak just doesn't cancel - 'cos if they do, I bet I don't have a prayer of getting a new ticket before Christmas even if they did settle
> 
> ...


I can’t imagine it will go on that long especially if congress is going to act. The senate is the issue for quick bills due to minimum debate times for the normal process. Unanimous consent is required to pass a bill quickly in the senate. It will eventually pass but if Sanders or someone else objects they’ll have to go through the full process.


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## fillyjonk (Nov 29, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> I can’t imagine it will go on that long especially if congress is going to act. The senate is the issue for quick bills due to minimum debate times for the normal process. Unanimous consent is required to pass a bill quickly in the senate. It will eventually pass but if Sanders or someone else objects they’ll have to go through the full process.


Yeah, but my concern is that my ticket (Dec 17) is in the window that might get cancelled if there were even a several-day strike, and I can't imagine I'd be able to get another one before Christmas.

though maybe I could travel AFTER Christmas and at least have a few days at my mom's....but that would still kinda suck


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 29, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> Yeah, but my concern is that my ticket (Dec 17) is in the window that might get cancelled if there were even a several-day strike, and I can't imagine I'd be able to get another one before Christmas.
> 
> though maybe I could travel AFTER Christmas and at least have a few days at my mom's....but that would still kinda suck



After Christmas is a good backup plan. How much time/flexibility do you have with work after Christmas? Will someone else be with your mother on Christmas Day? If you have flexibility and she will have other company on Christmas Day, the week after Christmas can be a very nice visiting time.


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## fillyjonk (Nov 29, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> After Christmas is a good backup plan. How much time/flexibility do you have with work after Christmas? Will someone else be with your mother on Christmas Day? If you have flexibility and she will have other company on Christmas Day, the week after Christmas can be a very nice visiting time.


well, she has good neighbors. I will be the one who will be totally alone. I would have about a week after Christmas which isn't very long for long-distance travel. Classes restart like around January 10, and I will need a few days before that as I'm teaching a totally new class and I will need to make sure I have my labs in place and stuff.


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## BalmyZephyr (Nov 29, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> 3 days before for the longer 1 night Lds (Crescent, Silvers, Eagle etc.)
> 
> 2 days before for the shorter LDs (Which I believe was the Auto Train, Palmetto, City of New Orleans, and Capitol Limited.)
> 
> The 2 day ones were canceled the day before the strike but because it was resolved shortly thereafter they actually “uncanceled” the 2 day ones even after they had started issuing refunds and opened them back up for bookings for people that wanted to rebook. Those 2 day ones didn’t miss a run.


We have Vermonter NB Dec 7 and SB on the 8th. Do you think they would cancel that?
We have connection to New Haven on the NER, but if that gets canceled, we can drive there to get the Vermonter.


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## lordsigma (Nov 29, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> We have Vermonter NB Dec 7 and SB on the 8th. Do you think they would cancel that?
> We have connection to New Haven on the NER, but if that gets canceled, we can drive there to get the Vermonter.


The Northeast Corridor including the NER trains will not be affected in any way by this strike. The Vermonter will be affected by the strike but I believe only because of having to enter CSX territory to cross the Berkshire Subdivison (former B&A )at Springfield. I do not believe G&W (which operates the railroad from East Northfield MA to St. Albans VT) or Pan Am (which operates from Springfield MA north of the CSX diamond to East Northfield MA) labor is affected by the strike so the Vermonter will likely run all the way up until the very last minute. You shouldn't have any issues. If the strike starts then all service north of Springfield MA will have to be suspended due to CSX workers striking. The B&A being shut down will essentially cut off the Amtrak dispatched railroad from the Pan Am dispatched railroad at Springfield.

Additionally Amtrak if the strike happens will not have the use of one of their tracks at Springfield station that's dispatched by CSX and will also not be able to wye trains there so the Springfield line would be limited to push pull service. I believe the plan last time was to truncate the Vermonter at New Haven, run the 400 series trains (which are all push pull) to Springfield only and operate the once daily through regional train push pull north of New Haven by sticking an engine on both ends.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Nov 30, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> But my mom is 86, this may be one of the last Christmases I get with her, it's too far for me to drive safely, I WON'T take the bus (had a bad experience doing that in the past), and I have no way to get to an airport (and would not want to leave my car for two weeks in "paid parking" that would cost as much as my plane ticket, probably) even if I could *afford* a plane ticket at this point.


I would share your concerns if a train trip were my best option for visiting my mom (who's turning 91 just before Christmas). I had my husband and son to share the driving with me from Dwight, IL to Kenosha, WI (approx. 4 hrs. by car) at Thanksgiving, but would not want to drive that long a distance solo, esp. at my 60-something age and with early sunsets this close to the winter solstice. If I had to make a solo trip by train to visit my mom at Christmas, it would probably be a combination of a Lincoln Service train to Chicago and either Metra directly to Kenosha or Amtrak's Hiawatha to Sturtevant (plus a bus or taxi into downtown Racine, a bus from downtown Racine to UW-Parkside, and another bus from UW-Parkside to the corner nearest Mom's house). A complicated enough journey, even without having to factor in a strike forcing one to find alternatives!


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## BalmyZephyr (Nov 30, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> The Northeast Corridor including the NER trains will not be affected in any way by this strike. The Vermonter will be affected by the strike but I believe only because of having to enter CSX territory to cross the Berkshire Subdivison (former B&A )at Springfield. I do not believe G&W (which operates the railroad from East Northfield MA to St. Albans VT) or Pan Am (which operates from Springfield MA north of the CSX diamond to East Northfield MA) labor is affected by the strike so the Vermonter will likely run all the way up until the very last minute. You shouldn't have any issues. If the strike starts then all service north of Springfield MA will have to be suspended due to CSX workers striking. The B&A being shut down will essentially cut off the Amtrak dispatched railroad from the Pan Am dispatched railroad at Springfield.
> 
> Additionally Amtrak if the strike happens will not have the use of one of their tracks at Springfield station that's dispatched by CSX and will also not be able to wye trains there so the Springfield line would be limited to push pull service. I believe the plan last time was to truncate the Vermonter at New Haven, run the 400 series trains (which are all push pull) to Springfield only and operate the once daily through regional train push pull north of New Haven by sticking an engine on both ends.



Thank you! Greatly appreciate this knowledge. It's a bucket list trip, especially now that my husband's health makes longish train trips _without_ using sleepers (hotel at one end) the best way for us to ride trains. It will be 19 degrees up at St. Albans but hey, we have parkas. Hope the bill and amendment pass ASAP for the sake of the workers and the travelers!


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## MccfamschoolMom (Nov 30, 2022)

Just read this article at The Center Square Illinois: here
It seems logical that Gov. Pritzker would agree with the President's urging Congress to intervene to prevent a strike, since Chicago is such a major rail hub. The unions should have (at least most of) their demands met, and it would be best if that can be achieved without fouling up supply chains and disrupting both freight & passenger rail traffic nationwide.


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## IanDBeacon (Dec 1, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> Just read this article at The Center Square Illinois: here
> It seems logical that Gov. Pritzker would agree with the President's urging Congress to intervene to prevent a strike, since Chicago is such a major rail hub. The unions should have (at least most of) their demands met, and it would be best if that can be achieved without fouling up supply chains and disrupting both freight & passenger rail traffic nationwide.


Such action already passed the house yesterday, and I’m sure it’s due to pass in the Senate.









Statement from President Joe Biden on House Action to Avert Rail Shutdown | The White House


I am grateful to Speaker Pelosi and House Democrats and Republicans for taking urgent action to prevent a rail shutdown. This overwhelming bipartisan vote




www.whitehouse.gov


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## zephyr17 (Dec 1, 2022)

IanDBeacon said:


> Such action already passed the house yesterday, and I’m sure it’s due to pass in the Senate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The question really isn't whether the Senate will pass it or not. It will. The question is how fast they can do it. If they can pass it by unanimous consent, they can do it very quickly. However, if they cannot get unanimous consent, if even one Senator objects, it will take some days to go through required Senate procedural votes. Some industries will start halting vital shipments this weekend, and Amtrak will probably start cancelling trains on Tuesday absent certainty that a settlement will be in place.

Without the 7 day sick leave addition (which, in full disclosure, I personally support), which is a separate piece of legislation passed by the House, it appears likely that at least some Senators will not support unanimous consent. However, had the House included that in a single piece of legislation, that legislation certainly would not have had unanimous consent and likely would not have passed filibuster (that separate 7 day sick leave bill probably will not pass filibuster, btw). The list of Senators that may object to unanimous consent includes Senators diverse as both Sanders and Rubio. I am sure that both Schumer and McConnell are whipping for unanimous consent for the base settlement bill, as is President Biden, that statement you linked is largely intended as pressure on recalcitrant Senators on the Democratic side, but whether they'll get it is far from certain if not downright doubtful.

Politics is performative.

Congress will almost certainly force the settlement. Whether they do so in time to avoid all potential effects of the strike threat is another question. At least some shippers and probably Amtrak will prepare for one until that "almost" is removed.


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## jis (Dec 1, 2022)

The Senate can always essentially staple the two bills adopted by the house together and adopt it as a single bill in the Senate. Such things are not unheard of.


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## Stremba (Dec 1, 2022)

Senate passes legislation to avert a rail shutdown | CNN Politics


The Senate on Thursday passed legislation to avert a rail shutdown following a grave warning from President Joe Biden about the economic danger posed by a strike.




www.cnn.com





Looks like the Senate has reached a deal to vote on the legislation to avert a strike. It still is not clear when they will vote. It is also not clear whether the sick leave provision will be part of the legislation that the Senate will vote on


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## lordsigma (Dec 1, 2022)

For those who have Amtrak reservations: There will be no strike. Voting is underway but current vote count is overwhelming yes (over 70.) Sick leave amendment by Sanders failed.


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## fillyjonk (Dec 1, 2022)

so wait, is the strike off for December? Every news site I consult seems to weasel-word the results here and I crave certainty


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## zephyr17 (Dec 1, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> so wait, is the strike off for December? Every news site I consult seems to weasel-word the results here and I crave certainty


You won't see it not in weasel words until the Senate vote is complete and in the books.


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## Stremba (Dec 1, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> so wait, is the strike off for December? Every news site I consult seems to weasel-word the results here and I crave certainty


The Senate vote is finished- 80-15 to pass. It just needs President Biden’s signature to take effect. I can’t imagine he will veto it


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2022)

fillyjonk said:


> so wait, is the strike off for December? Every news site I consult seems to weasel-word the results here and I crave certainty


It takes time to work through the specifics of legislation, and nobody is going to call it a done deal until the POTUS signs, but I would consider a December strike really unlikely at this point. It would require the president changing his mind, the unions striking without authorization, or emergency court action.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 1, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It takes time to work through the specifics of legislation, and nobody is going to call it a done deal until the POTUS signs, but I would consider a December strike really unlikely at this point. It would require the president changing his mind, the unions striking without authorization, or emergency court action.


Of the three, the only one that I think is at all realistic is the second, the unions striking without authorization. While I severely doubt the unions themselves would call an unauthorized strike (AFL-CIO officials have already spoken out reluctantly in favor of the imposed settlement), I don't put the possibility of wildcat strikes by members entirely out of the realm of possibility. From what I understand, many members are very understandably angry. However, I think it will be expressed in the form of continued resignations, not a wildcat strike. That will continue to squeeze an already tight staffing situation even further, and likely making the railroads, already short of staff, even more draconian, and causing a further vicious cycle.


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## zetharion (Dec 1, 2022)

Well Congress came to the rescue of the railroads. Its nice for them to have that ace in their pocket for every contract dispute.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Dec 2, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Of the three, the only one that I think is at all realistic is the second, the unions striking without authorization. While I severely doubt the unions themselves would call an unauthorized strike (AFL-CIO officials have already spoken out reluctantly in favor of the imposed settlement), I don't put the possibility of wildcat strikes by members entirely out of the realm of possibility. From what I understand, many members are very understandably angry. However, I think it will be expressed in the form of continued resignations, not a wildcat strike. That will continue to squeeze an already tight staffing situation even further, and likely making the railroads, already short of staff, even more draconian, and causing a further vicious cycle.


Yes, given that the workers are being forced back to work without the sick day provision that many of them considered vital to a settlement, that will leave a lot of disgruntlement, not a good situation. Perhaps besides a wildcat strike, we might see people "working to rule" or refusing to work overtime, that kind of thing that will tend to snarl things up and for Amtrak might result in more delays than we have already. In the UK, similar labor unrest has resulted in crews refusing to work their days off resulting in chaos in some Train Operating Companies (notably Avanti West Coast) as they have had to cancel trains sometimes at the last minute.


Winecliff Station said:


> Mods- would it make sense to merge the two strike threads? I’m not sure how we ended up with two.


I think the other thread is focused on the strike itself and the effect on the freight railroads whereas this one is focused more on the effects of a strike on Amtrak, especially how it might affect those that have reservations on upcoming trips. Undoubtedly there will be some overlap.


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## pennyk (Dec 2, 2022)

MODERATOR NOTE: Since the strike has been resolved and there is no current effect on Amtrak, this thread has been locked. 
Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


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