# 30 day Rail Pass & Segments



## kiwionatrain (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi Guys

I stumbled across this forum while looking for amtrak info on the net and have a few questions regarding the Segements so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction

I am looking to see as much of the country as possible with New York ,Chicago,San Francisco,Grand Canyon and New Orleans begin my priority . I still haven't decided on the exact route but it should be something like this

Segment 1) New York to Chicago

Segment 2)Chicago to - Denver/Salt Lake City

Segment 3)Denver/Salt Lake City to San Francisco

Segment 4)San Francisco to Los Angeles

Segment 5)Los Angeles to Flagstaff (Gran Canyon)

Segment 6/7)Flagstaff to Kansas/St Louis (Two Segments) ?

Segment 8)Kansas/St Louis San Antonio to New Orleans ?

Segment 9)New Orleans to Atlanta ?

Segment 10)Atlanta to Washington ?

Segment 11)Washington to Philadelphia ?

Segment 12)Phildaelphia to New York ?

First Question .

Does going from point A to B count as 1 segment or some of the routes counted as two segments

Second Question

I would like to Transfer from the Southwest chief at Kansas to the Texas Eagle line at St Louis and take the train down to San Antonio , is this going to use 2 segments or 3 ?

Third Question

Does anyone have a opinion on which would be the more interesting place to stay , Denver or Salt Lake City . I realize this is down to personal taste and experience but I would like to hear what anyone has to say about either of the two City's

Well hopefully that covers it

Thanks in Advance

Nick


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## amtrakwolverine (Feb 25, 2010)

one train is one segment.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 25, 2010)

kiwionatrain said:


> I am looking to see as much of the country as possible with New York ,Chicago,San Francisco,Grand Canyon and New Orleans begin my priority . I still haven't decided on the exact route but it should be something like this


A 15 segment Rail Pass is Good for 30 Days/Is $500+ (prices change)/An 18 Segment Pass is 45 days/$700+-You didnt say how long youre gonna stay in any one place?



kiwionatrain said:


> Trains/SegmentsSegment 1) New York to Chicago *(LSL#49 or Cardinal#51- 1 segment)*
> 
> Segment 2)Chicago to - Denver/Salt Lake City *(CZ#5 to Denver-much better- 1 segment)*Segment 3)Denver/Salt Lake City to San Francisco *(CZ#5 to Emeryville-1 segment/The bus to SFC would be another segment)*
> 
> ...


**Sleepers are extra, some very pricey on the popular trains but include all meals and price is good for 1 or 2/just have 2 rail passes if two travel!



kiwionatrain said:


> First Question . Does going from point A to B count as 1 segment or some of the routes counted as two segments :


 **See above**



kiwionatrain said:


> Second QuestionI would like to Transfer from the Southwest chief at Kansas to the Texas Eagle line at St Louis and take the train down to San Antonio , is this going to use 2 segments or 3 ?


**see above**you have to spend the night in KCY or STL unless you ride the thruway- bus from KCY-OKC (overnight-1 segment)/OKC-FTW on the HF#821-1 segment/TE#21 FTW-SAS-1 segment for a total of 3 if you do this-NOT RECOMMENDED!!?



kiwionatrain said:


> Third QuestionDoes anyone have a opinion on which would be the more interesting place to stay , Denver or Salt Lake City . I realize this is down to personal taste and experience but I would like to hear what anyone has to say about either of the two City's


DENVER!DENVER!DENVER! (Unless you are a Mormon) Hope this helps! 

Dont know what happened here, High Tech stumps the oldster again???


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> kiwionatrain said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking to see as much of the country as possible with New York ,Chicago,San Francisco,Grand Canyon and New Orleans begin my priority . I still haven't decided on the exact route but it should be something like this
> ...


I disagree if the meaning is that because Salt Lake City was settled by Mormons and remains heavily Mormon today, no one but Mormons are interested.

I am not Mormon and found Salt Lake City fascinating for its history and events. The way that Salt Lake tourist venues present Mormon migration and related frontier history makes your understanding of US Western history come alive. There's also the site of the 2002 Winter Olympics. It's a clean, beautiful city.

This is not to slight Denver. But the fact that Salt Lake City has Mormon origins should be no judge of its fascination any more that Australia is to be avoided unless you like criminals (since it was populated originally by English convicts).


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 25, 2010)

No disrespect to Salt Lake City,it is beautiful,clean and lots to see and do! Denver just seems like a Major City in comparison, I found Salt Lake sort of quiet @ night! Perhaps if they have time the OP can spend nights in both since they seemed to want to go toboth? And no slight of the Mormons either, they are a wondeful group of folks, interesting history and seeing the sights and going to the various exhibits/buildings etc. is a fascinating way to spend a few days! 

Thanks for questioning my post, I really like Denver!  (And the Aussies, I thought they were still criminals? :lol: :lol: :lol: )


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## domefoamer (Feb 25, 2010)

We could debate Den vs SLC on and on, but truth be told, they'll seem more alike than different to a Noo Yawker. Especially since Salt Lake has liberalized its alcohol laws, if that's your thing. But one undeniable difference is that Amtrak visits SLC in the wee, inconvenient hours of 1-3 am. Denver's westbound train stops around 7 am, and the eastbound boards in early evening, IIRC (that's an awkward acronym I use because I can't abide "like"). Plus, it's a very short walk to Coors Field for a ballgame, if in season. Denver's station is as architecturally impressive and conveniently located as Salt Lake's is not. On paper, it's the same one-a-day service, but SLC definitely gets the short end of that stick so the Zephyr can cross the Colorado Rockies in daylight.


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## caravanman (Feb 25, 2010)

I was interested to note that the geography of some rail fans is not so good "off the rails".. Kiwi's are New Zealanders....

I haven't used the new style rail pass, but each time you get on and off a train, or a bus, that uses up one segment of your pass.

You should think about what you like to do and see, then look up the tourist info for each city.. railfans on here may not be interested in the same stuff that you are!

Bon Voyage!

Ed 

PS I think the original population of Australia were Aboriginals, not convicts?


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## bretton88 (Feb 26, 2010)

domefoamer said:


> We could debate Den vs SLC on and on, but truth be told, they'll seem more alike than different to a Noo Yawker. Especially since Salt Lake has liberalized its alcohol laws, if that's your thing. But one undeniable difference is that Amtrak visits SLC in the wee, inconvenient hours of 1-3 am. Denver's westbound train stops around 7 am, and the eastbound boards in early evening, IIRC (that's an awkward acronym I use because I can't abide "like"). Plus, it's a very short walk to Coors Field for a ballgame, if in season. Denver's station is as architecturally impressive and conveniently located as Salt Lake's is not. On paper, it's the same one-a-day service, but SLC definitely gets the short end of that stick so the Zephyr can cross the Colorado Rockies in daylight.


Well, 1-3am if the train is running really late westbound or really early eastbound. 11pm is the usual arrival time. One thing to take into consideration is that Denver union station is closing in April. The new location looks to be really inconvenient to transit access and parking. While the station in slc is still in downtown and convenient if the train isn't horribly late. It really is a wash in my mind. A good choice whatever place you choose.


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## KWBud (Feb 26, 2010)

domefoamer said:


> We could debate Den vs SLC on and on, but truth be told, they'll seem more alike than different to a Noo Yawker. Especially since Salt Lake has liberalized its alcohol laws, if that's your thing.


That's strange, since I think of them as being different as night and day. I like them both, and they are both major Western cities with dynamic populations that were originally forged by pioneers. Both retain the legacy of that birthright.

But the cultures stem from extremely different populations. The Mormons were religious refugees from "back east" who were looking for a place to live without interference from others. Denver was a mining town and people with a more adventuresome outlook on life were drawn there. Different heratages make for quite different ethos.



domefoamer said:


> But one undeniable difference is that Amtrak visits SLC in the wee, inconvenient hours of 1-3 am. Denver's westbound train stops around 7 am, and the eastbound boards in early evening, IIRC (that's an awkward acronym I use because I can't abide "like"). Plus, it's a very short walk to Coors Field for a ballgame, if in season. Denver's station is as architecturally impressive and conveniently located as Salt Lake's is not. On paper, it's the same one-a-day service, but SLC definitely gets the short end of that stick so the Zephyr can cross the Colorado Rockies in daylight.


In another thread there is the discussion of the upgrading of Denver's Union Station that may affect the relatively better rail access that Denver currently enjoys.

--

Bud


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## kiwionatrain (Feb 26, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> kiwionatrain said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking to see as much of the country as possible with New York ,Chicago,San Francisco,Grand Canyon and New Orleans begin my priority . I still haven't decided on the exact route but it should be something like this
> ...


Thanks to everyone for your quick responses , on the interrail forum (European rail pass) it took days to get just one 1 reply !

I am trying to spend 3/4 nights each in Chicago,San Francisco & New Orleans and the rest I will try to fit in best I can with trains departing etc , it may turn out that I need the 45 day 18 Segment pass but from my early route plan it looks like I can just fit it all in...just

I will try to avoid the sleepers as I am travelling on a budget , on the European night trains with a sleeping bag and sweetshirt for a pillow I managed to get some sleep . The Amtrak site does'n't seem to mention the pricing for meals bought onboard without the sleeper upgrade , what should I expect to pay for breakfast, lunch , dinner etc

When looking at the Kansas/Oklahoma connection I came a cross this discussion saying that its all over anyway , according to the Interactive map on Amtraks site there is a connection between Alburquerque and El Paso but it is not shown on their 2010 network map PDF

Another issue that the Atlas brings up is transfers between train stations within Cities such has San Francisco to Flagstaff . The copy/paste below is from the amtrak site and suggests that you have to use two buses and two trains , does this mean that you will be using 4 segments to get to Flagstaff ?

370 Bus

Departs: 7:00 AM

Sat May 22 2010

San Francisco, CA - Financial District (SFF)

Arrives: 7:25 AM

Sat May 22 2010

Emeryville, CA (EMY)

Duration: 0 hr, 25 min

Amenities

1 Unreserved Thruway Seat

712 San Joaquin

Departs: 7:40 AM

Sat May 22 2010

Emeryville, CA (EMY)

Arrives: 1:41 PM

Sat May 22 2010

Bakersfield, CA (BFD)

Duration: 6 hr, 1 min

Amenities

1 Reserved Coach Seat

5812 Bus

Departs: 1:50 PM

Sat May 22 2010

Bakersfield, CA (BFD)

Arrives: 4:10 PM

Sat May 22 2010

Los Angeles, CA - Union Station (LAX)

Duration: 2 hr, 20 min

Amenities

1 Reserved Thruway Seat

4 Southwest Chief

Departs: 6:45 PM

Sat May 22 2010

Los Angeles, CA - Union Station (LAX)

Arrives: 5:06 AM

Sun May 23 2010

Flagstaff, AZ (FLG)

Sta

Again

Thanks in advance

Nick


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## Roadfool (Feb 26, 2010)

kiwionatrain said:


> Another issue that the Atlas brings up is transfers between train stations within Cities such has San Francisco to Flagstaff . The copy/paste below is from the amtrak site and suggests that you have to use two buses and two trains , does this mean that you will be using 4 segments to get to Flagstaff ?


I haven't used the rail pass yet, but I think that's how it works. Each different train or bus counts as a separate segment.

Since you're going to be spending at least a night in each city and could make all the necessary connections, I would strongly recommend taking the Coast Starlight from Emeryville to LA instead of going down the middle of the state on the San Joaquin and bus from Bakersfield. You can pay cash for the bus from SF to EMY instead of wasting a rail pass segment, then use 1 long segment for the CS from EMY to LAX. (I think you have to book a train segment with the bus ticket, but you can buy a ticket to the next stop at RIC and not use that part. It's only $10 total for the bus/train from SFF to RIC.)

Unless you're _really_ interested in agriculture, cows, or the back side of industrial districts, there isn't much to see on the SJ route.


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## kiwionatrain (Feb 26, 2010)

Roadfool said:


> kiwionatrain said:
> 
> 
> > Another issue that the Atlas brings up is transfers between train stations within Cities such has San Francisco to Flagstaff . The copy/paste below is from the amtrak site and suggests that you have to use two buses and two trains , does this mean that you will be using 4 segments to get to Flagstaff ?
> ...



Cheers mate

Looks like a winner !

We have enough farms in New Zealand so might give the San Joaquin a miss !


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## AlanB (Feb 26, 2010)

kiwionatrain said:


> I will try to avoid the sleepers as I am travelling on a budget , on the European night trains with a sleeping bag and sweetshirt for a pillow I managed to get some sleep . The Amtrak site does'n't seem to mention the pricing for meals bought onboard without the sleeper upgrade , what should I expect to pay for breakfast, lunch , dinner etc


Menus for the dining cars can indeed be found on Amtrak's site by clicking here.

You can find a somewhat representative cafe menu here, but be warned that the menu found there is several months old now and there was a recent update to the menus. However, it will still give you some idea of things and prices.


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## domefoamer (Feb 26, 2010)

KWBud said:


> That's strange, since I think of them as being different as night and day. I like them both, and they are both major Western cities with dynamic populations that were originally forged by pioneers. Both retain the legacy of that birthright.
> But the cultures stem from extremely different populations. The Mormons were religious refugees from "back east" who were looking for a place to live without interference from others. Denver was a mining town and people with a more adventuresome outlook on life were drawn there. Different heratages make for quite different ethos.


-- You're right, of course. The two cities have very different histories, populations and politics. For one topical example, Salt Lake is just beginning to allow liquor sales without making you join a "club" on the spot. Meanwhile, Denver has hundreds of new herbal establishments that will certify anyone with certain medical conditions to buy and consume medical marijuana on the spot. "You pays your money and you takes your choice," as the saying goes.

The differences could launch a thousand theses in sociology. But I wonder if a foreign tourist would sense them on a short visit. Both are clean, modern cities. You might not see much apparent difference downtown, outside of the Mormon Tabernacle (which is where you'll stay if you're a "Gentile"). What's more apparent is the splendid physical setting enjoyed by Salt Lake City. It's right on the lower slopes of the Rockies, while Denver sits 15 miles east of the foothills. Then there's that unlikely, incomparable lake.

I imagine that Denver has a wider range of museums, sports and entertainments, but I'm biased-- I live here. I'll just mention my favorite place in Denver. Near the train station is Elitch's, America's only (?) downtown amusement park. But that's not the one. Several miles out in the suburbs is Lakeside, a small park over 100 years old that's a time capsule of Art Deco Americana. Always worth a visit, it's on a city bus line and open most summer nights for a $2 admission.


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## kiwionatrain (Feb 27, 2010)

AlanB said:


> kiwionatrain said:
> 
> 
> > I will try to avoid the sleepers as I am travelling on a budget , on the European night trains with a sleeping bag and sweetshirt for a pillow I managed to get some sleep . The Amtrak site does'n't seem to mention the pricing for meals bought onboard without the sleeper upgrade , what should I expect to pay for breakfast, lunch , dinner etc
> ...


Cheers Alan that at least gives me an idea of how much the wallet will be punished

To be fair the pricing seems reasonable . A few months ago I paid 11 Euros for a Pasta and a can of Coke on a Ferry from Barcelona to Rome !



domefoamer said:


> KWBud said:
> 
> 
> > That's strange, since I think of them as being different as night and day. I like them both, and they are both major Western cities with dynamic populations that were originally forged by pioneers. Both retain the legacy of that birthright.
> ...


I am sold on Denver because the time of arrival from Chicago is allot more friendly than Salt Lake . According to the CZ route guide Denver is the top city in the country for singles :lol: , plus Lakeside is a good tip , there are some cool pictures on the net will be sure to check it out


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## domefoamer (Feb 27, 2010)

kiwionatrain said:


> I am sold on Denver because the time of arrival from Chicago is allot more friendly than Salt Lake .


Like KWBud said, the difference literally is night and day.

Have a good trip! Keep us posted...


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## TN Tin Man (Feb 28, 2010)

kiwionatrain said:


> Third QuestionDoes anyone have a opinion on which would be the more interesting place to stay , Denver or Salt Lake City . I realize this is down to personal taste and experience but I would like to hear what anyone has to say about either of the two City's


With all the Denver - Salt Lake City banter here. May I suggest another option. You are visiting alot of US cities. Try a Colorado town. Glenwood Springs, Mid-day arrivals and departures east and west. A bit touristy (?) but the pioneer - mining - ranching and railroad history can't be beat, not to mention - kayaking- climbing - skiing and hot springs. It's still a ski town (Aspen and Snowmass) there are hostels in the area for more affordable lodging.

Offered as food for thought only.

I hope you enjoy your trip and experience as much of this vast country as you can.


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## domefoamer (Feb 28, 2010)

WY Tin Man said:


> kiwionatrain said:
> 
> 
> > Third QuestionDoes anyone have a opinion on which would be the more interesting place to stay , Denver or Salt Lake City . I realize this is down to personal taste and experience but I would like to hear what anyone has to say about either of the two City's
> ...


That's a great suggestion- laying over at Glenwood for a day or more offers you easy access to hiking, bicycle trails (and rentals), caves, rafting, hot spring baths and the gilded delights of Aspen, just 30 miles away. It's easily the premier destination on the CZ route.


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## Sam31452 (Mar 4, 2010)

We wanted to do Glenwood Springs last summer, then the CZ was rerouted and we made a stop in Denver. Denver is a nice town, but after a while (let's say 2hrs and a couple of Railyard Ales at the Wynkoop Brewery) you've seen it.

About STL: I always wondered how an american city would look today if the Japanese had dropped the first atomic bomb. STL that's it.

Not that it is a particularly ugly city, but there are only about 6 buildings in the entire city that predate 1945.

The Drury Inn next to Union Station is a good place to stay, they have a pool, and do free popcorn and soda in the evening. It's withing walking distance from Amshack II (they've built a new one).

About LAX-Flagstaff-GCN: If you book with amtrak you're able to get one-way tickets for Grand Canyon Railway (about $40 or so) and of course a free transfer from Williams Jct to Williams. We only made a day trip, so we had our tickets booked to Flagstaff, our luggage checked and so we were able to pick up our luggage in Flagstaff in the evening. (we told our sleeping car attendant that we wanted to get off in Williams Jct. and all worked out fine).


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