# California Zephyr



## UKTraveller (Jan 28, 2011)

Hello everyone  :hi:

 

First time poster on here - great forum, ben reading for a few days!

 

OK, here goes.

 

I am off to San Fan for 4 nights with a friend in September and then taking the Zephyr to Chicago and staying for 4 nights before flying back to London.

 

I have been watching YouTube clips of the Zephyr, studying the timetable and generally been amazed by the sheer distance and sights en route.

 

Are there any tips for first time travellers to avoid boredom, becoming fidgety and fed up apart from keep hydrated, eat well and ty to sleep well? Also, any tips for best places to get great camera pics.

 

One last thing, we are both smokers (I know, bad) and 2 days and nights without a nicotine fix sounds horrendous for us so are there scheduled 'smoke stops' en route every few hours or is it frowned upon totally? I have been told Denver is the main place but any more? 

 

:help:

 

Many thanks

Marc (UK)


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## buck1108 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi Mark and welcome!

Yes, there are periodic smoke stops, although I'm not certain where they are on this particular route.

Your sleeping car attendant will probably stock bottled water in your sleeper, in the area with the coffee. The observation car is a great place to mingle and get a better view of the scenery, as is the diner and snack car.

From my experience, the train staff generally keep the passengers so busy (at least those in the sleepers) with the announcements and eating and great views, that boredom seldom sets in, barring any unforeseen adventures.


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## UKTraveller (Jan 28, 2011)

Thank you for the quick reply!

We are just going 'coach' as want to play cards and chill when we can plus with budgets its all we can do but I am sure it will be fine. My main worry is missing great photo opps in the middle of the night

Also can you charge cell pnes and camera batteries on board? Would you also advise taking snacks?


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## the_traveler (Jan 28, 2011)

Welcome!






Are you traveling coach or via a sleeper?



Taking a sleeper may seem expensive, but remember that the cost of the accommodations (room) is per room, not per person! So technically the cost for 2 people is 1/2 per person. (If the room cost $500, it will be $250 per person!) Also a sleeper includes all meals (in the Dining Car) for both passengers!

The route of the California Zephyr has been considered by many (including me) as the most scenic train trip on Amtrak!



During daylight hours, you may want to spend as much time in the Sightseer Lounge (SSL). This way, from the SSL, you can see easily out of both sides of the train. Ride in the SSL especially in Colorado (the second day of the trip)!

If you look at a route schedule and see 2 times listed (Ex: Ar 3:25 Dp 3:40) these are "smoke stops". However, if the train is late, the stop may be less than is shown. Also, stay near the train and listen for the "All Aboard!" call. The train will depart whether or not you're aboard it!

Enjoy your holiday!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 28, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> We are just going 'coach' as want to play cards and chill when we can plus with budgets its all we can do but I am sure it will be fine. My main worry is missing great photo opps in the middle of the night. Also can you charge cell pnes and camera batteries on board? Would you also advise taking snacks?


Coach is fine, don't let the anti-coach crowd lobby you into paying twice the price or more for a sleeper. Yes, it's better but it's not always worth it, especially if you'll have to take fewer/shorter trips as a result. If you can survive trans-Atlantic flights in coach seats you'll probably be okay in Amtrak coach. Many of the sightseer lounges and coach cars have been given standard American power outlets for using with portable devices. It's advisable to bring a travel-sized surge protector if you can fit one. That way your devices are protected from flaky power and you can add your devices to any outlet even if someone else was using it first. I would strongly recommend bringing snacks of your own choosing as the ones sold by Amtrak are typically in the form of stale junk food.


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## zephyr17 (Jan 28, 2011)

Smoking is strictly prohibited on board, and doing so will likely get you kicked off the train. They are really serious about that.

There are a number of "fresh air" stops, as they tend to call them now. Most long stops/service stops are, and they are not limited to just those that have both arrive and depart times, although those are pretty much a sure thing. I know at least a few, if memory serves:

Ottumwa, IA

Omaha, NE

Denver, CO

Glenwood Springs, CO (sometimes)

Grand Junction, CO

Salt Lake City, UT

Reno, NV

Sacramento, CA

Listen for the announcements, if running ahead of time, some stops that ordinarily are not fresh-air stops become one since they have to wait for time. Don't get off to smoke at a stop unless they announce it. A lot of stops are really brief (like a minute or two). In any case, do not wander far from the train.

In terms of pictures, the first day is pretty good right from the start, rolling along the Bay, then the afternoon is spent crossing the Sierra over Donner Pass (you are on the route of the original transcontinental railroad). One the second day, you will wake up to the desert in eastern Utah, then go through a series of canyons through western Colorado, a highlight is Glenwood Canyon, just after Glenwood Springs. If you are going this time of year, the descent to Denver down the face of the Front Range will be in the dark. But even that is cool, as at night it feels like the world's slowest airliner descending into Denver.

The third day, not much, you are crossing the Great Plains. The crossing of the Mississippi right after Burlington, IA is a highlight, though.

Eastbound, I would say try to get seats on the left side of the train.


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## Cristobal (Jan 28, 2011)

zephyr17 said:


> Smoking is strictly prohibited on board, and doing so will likely get you kicked off the train. They are really serious about that.
> 
> There are a number of "fresh air" stops, as they tend to call them now. Most long stops/service stops are, and they are not limited to just those that have both arrive and depart times, although those are pretty much a sure thing. I know at least a few, if memory serves:
> 
> ...


That's only for the #5 (w/b). He's going the other way on the #6.


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## SAN FRANCISCO (Jan 28, 2011)

Also, locals do not like the term San Fran. It's San Francisco or "The City". Just sayin'


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## zephyr17 (Jan 28, 2011)

Cristobal said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > Smoking is strictly prohibited on board, and doing so will likely get you kicked off the train. They are really serious about that.
> ...


Yeah, I realized that too late and edited it for EB :blush: .


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## Cristobal (Jan 28, 2011)

SAN FRANCISCO said:


> Also, locals do not like the term San Fran. It's San Francisco or "The City". Just sayin'


I was almost going to point that out as well. Worse yet is saying 'frisco. I figured though that a Brit might just get the 'eye-roll' and not a lecture from a local with their panties in a bunch. hboy:


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## Train2104 (Jan 28, 2011)

buck1108 said:


> From my experience, the train staff generally keep the passengers so busy (at least those in the sleepers) with the announcements and eating and great views, that boredom seldom sets in, barring any unforeseen adventures.


I too am concerned about boredom on LD Amtrak trips. If there's no thing I'm waiting for or if they're not close together, I get bored really easily in any mode of travel. The NEC isn't bad because the commuter stations are so frequent, but I can't imagine out in the plains of the Midwest.


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## the_traveler (Jan 28, 2011)

SAN FRANCISCO said:


> Also, locals do not like the term San Fran. It's San Francisco or *"The City"*. Just sayin'


I grew up in upstate New York *STATE*, and to us "the city" was New York *CITY*! Whenever I said I was from New York, I was asked about New York *CITY*!



(About the only times I went to New York *CITY* was to change trains - I lived 180 miles north!)


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 28, 2011)

Maybe San Francisco needs to get over itself. Cities with more than a couple syllables tend to get shortened and yet the rest of them seem to survive unscathed without any pantie twists. If a city like _Phuket_ can survive the unspeakable horror of careless tourists then so can San-Fran-Frisco.


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## pennyk (Jan 28, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> buck1108 said:
> 
> 
> > From my experience, the train staff generally keep the passengers so busy (at least those in the sleepers) with the announcements and eating and great views, that boredom seldom sets in, barring any unforeseen adventures.
> ...


I thought I would be bored on my first 3 day trip (ORL to MSP). I brought 7 books and 5 DVDs with me. I was so fascinated by looking out the window (even at night), that I only read one of the books and had to force myself to watch one of the movies so I would not feel so stupid dragging all the stuff with me. Last summer, I spent 10 nights on a train (cross country and back). The only time I was bored was in SAC waiting 10 hours for the next train.


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## hello (Jan 28, 2011)

_I agree with pennyk ... we used to take several books, several movies, several etc. and RARELY used them. Just looking out of the windows consumed our days ... and we loved it!__ So don't worry UKTraveler you'll do just fine!_


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## Exiled in Express (Jan 28, 2011)

Why not split it up into 2 or 3 legs? A day off the train is not a bad thing, I am not sure I would want to jump into the deep end of rail travel with 2 days in coach.


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## Trainmans daughter (Jan 28, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> buck1108 said:
> 
> 
> > From my experience, the train staff generally keep the passengers so busy (at least those in the sleepers) with the announcements and eating and great views, that boredom seldom sets in, barring any unforeseen adventures.
> ...


My husband, bless his heart, has the attention span of a gnat. Summer before last we took our first Amtrak trip from California to Virginia--3 days/3 nights. My granddaughter and I loved every minute and were never even close to being bored. However, no amount of scenery, books, games, or food was enough to keep my poor hubby from almost coming unglued by the time we got back. Just between you and me, I was ready to shove him into some Iowa cornfield on the return trip!

We are taking the same vacation in June, but this time my granddaughter and I will be Amtraking and hubby will fly. This marriage might endure, after all!

I think the issue of boredom is simply a personality thing.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 28, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> No amount of scenery, books, games, or food was enough to keep my poor hubby from almost coming unglued by the time we got back. Just between you and me, I was ready to shove him into some Iowa cornfield on the return trip!


Now we know what happened in Montana et al! 

We need to get the word out before the next unsuspecting spouse is dumped by side of the tracks! :help:


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## Trainmans daughter (Jan 28, 2011)

daxomni said:


> Trainmans daughter said:
> 
> 
> > No amount of scenery, books, games, or food was enough to keep my poor hubby from almost coming unglued by the time we got back. Just between you and me, I was ready to shove him into some Iowa cornfield on the return trip!
> ...


I should have been more clear. I would have done it while the train was stopped. I don't want to hurt the guy. We've been hanging together for 45 years and I really like him. Actually, he'd be the first to admit that he can be a real PIA at times!


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## ThayerATM (Jan 28, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> Thank you for the quick reply!
> 
> We are just going 'coach' as want to play cards and chill when we can plus with budgets its all we can do but I am sure it will be fine. My main worry is missing great photo opps in the middle of the night
> 
> Also can you charge cell pnes and camera batteries on board? Would you also advise taking snacks?


The first thing you'll want to do is establish a good rapport with your car attendendant. That person will be with you for the whole trip as Amtrak changes engineers and conductors about every 8 hours, but the attendant travels with your car all the way. That person is your ticket to a good time, or a mediocre time, as they're a wealth of information for the whole trip, and usually very helpful if you draw a good one.

In September it gets dark around 7 PM, and gets light again around 7 AM. Get out that Zephyr timetable. You'll be traveling through 3 time zones, and the stops are marked with local time, so you'll be able to tell when it's going to be dark, and when it'll be daylight. There aren't many photo-ops during the night,  and virtually all of them are from the observation car in the daytime. Your best shots will be between Emeryville and Denver. The plains have some good photo-ops, depending on whether your fond of wheat or corn, but keep in mind that one shot of a cornfield in Kansas goes a long way. :blush:

I'd guess that you'll want to do most of your chillin' in the observation car. That's what it's there for. Get there early, as the seats and tables fill up early. You'll be able to charge electronics there, but the surge bar is a good idea. The electricity is pretty dependable, but there will be some competition for the available plugs. Plugs are also available in coach. REMEMBER, they're 110 V AC, with grounded plugs. hboy: We're hoping that Antrak has WIFI on the Zephyr by September when we're on it, going westward toward San Francisco. Oh --- we'll be traveling in a bedroom. 

As for snacks. Definitely! You'll still be able to buy meals in the diner if the slepers haven't taken up all the space, but that can be pricey. The food in the observation car really isn't all THAT bad. It's just pre-packeged food, heated in a microwave. It's a lot better than you'll get in coach on the airline, :lol: and the food in the diner is *good* at worst, and *really good* at best. You'll also get to rub elbows with the sleeper passengers and find out why you should have chosen to travel first class. 

They'll be able to fill you in. :lol:

As for smoking... my wife and I are smokers and we have no difficulty on the Zephyr. Just don't even think about it *on* the train. Those stops that show two times are virtual guarantees, and depending on how early the train is running there might be several more. Amtak never leaves a staton before the scheduled time. Be aware that some of those smoke stops are in the middle of the night. Set your cell phone to be a vibrate alarm clock. You'll want to take advantage of those stops. And be aware that Americans don't sleep in "normal" positions in coach. You'll be stepping over body parts in the middle of the night. It's kind of disgusting, but if you're after a cigarette it's worth it. :unsure:

Chicago... it should be a blast. Two museums you must see are Science & Industry, and Field. And the Brookfield zoo. Oh, and Giordano's Pizza which is about a block and a half from Union Station. If you like pizza, that's the place. They do it right.


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## the_traveler (Jan 28, 2011)

Trainmans daughter said:


> I would have done it while the train was stopped.


You mean he'd get off for a "smoke break" at a station with a 30 second stop?


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## the_traveler (Jan 29, 2011)

ThayerATM said:


> The food in the observation car really isn't all THAT bad. It's just pre-packeged food, heated in a microwave.


A slight correction. It's not a microwave, Amtrak uses convection ovens to heat food up.


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## ThayerATM (Jan 29, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > The food in the observation car really isn't all THAT bad. It's just pre-packeged food, heated in a microwave.
> ...


OK, but it sure fooled me. :blush: The last time I was in the snack lounge downstairs in the Zephyr observation car, the guy put my plastic wrapped National Hegbrew hot dog in that little black plastic cabinet with the door that opened with hinges on the left, then closed it, then turned the dial to start it; it sure looked like a microwave to me. When I heard it "ding" before he opened the door I was pretty well convinced. :lol:

I kind of figured that if it looked like a duck, and quacked like a duck, it *WAS* a duck. :unsure: :lol:

What's the source of energy for heating something in an Amtrak convection oven?

My understanding is that a microwave won't heat up plastic wrap or cardboard, but will only heat up things that contain water, hence the use of a microwave heating for pre-packaged food.

On the other hand, it's been my understanding that a convection oven uses heat radiating electric bars, or gas flame to create heat, and heat stuff at higher temperatures that affects everything within the energy range, including plastic wrap and cardboard liners.

Please school me on this. :huh:


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## PRR 60 (Jan 29, 2011)

ThayerATM said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > ThayerATM said:
> ...


What you saw in the Sightseer was a microwave. The AmDogs are microwaved. Convection ovens are used in the dining car kitchens.

Convection ovens cook at the same temperature as conventional ovens. They use fans to circulate the heated air within the oven to more efficiently heat the food. This results in shortened cooking times.


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## ThayerATM (Jan 29, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


I knew that. :lol: I just wanted to give Traveler a chance to dig himself out of the hole he dug. 

The convection ovens in the diner do provide a more even way to cook, but *DO* take just a little longer than a microwave. Convection ovens are superior, in that they allow allow more time for the the flavors to "marry." Nobody really cares about a hotdog.

:lol:

I was just funnin' with Traveler, as he has both kinds of ovens in his penthouse car. I think the microwave sits just to the left of the hot-tub, and the convection oven is over in the kitchen, next to the fridge, right across from the center cutting table with its hot and cold running water.


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## the_traveler (Jan 29, 2011)

ThayerATM said:


> I was just funnin' with Traveler, as he has both kinds of ovens in his penthouse car. I think the microwave sits just to the left of the hot-tub, and the convection oven is over in the kitchen, next to the fridge, right across from the center cutting table with its hot and cold running water.


You're correct, I only have a convection oven upstairs in the penthouse suite. The microwave is 3 levels down, next to the pool and spa!




I wouldn't want my butler to drive all the way upstairs to get some food for me now, would I?


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## George Harris (Jan 29, 2011)

Back to power: US current is 110 volts, 60 cycle. Sometimes it is also labeled as 115 volts. You will need to be sure of the adaptors. The best would probably be to get one with the outputs you need from a place in the US such as Radio Shack. I know firt had plugging an adaptor into the charging unit can result in the death of the charging unit, and not necessarily immediately.

Unless you have an extraoridarily short attention span, boredom should not be a problem.

You will have two major mountain crossings with simply spectacular scenery.

The Sierra Nevada: The climb starts a few miles east of Sacramento going from near sea level to 6762 feet (2061 meters) at the end of the Donner Pass tunnel. This climb adn crossing should be in daylight. This crossing the Sierra Nevada at an elevation about twice that of the railway tunnels in the Swiss Alps, and I don't mean the new "base" tunnels, either.

The Rockies: Near the end of the second day you go through the Moffet Tunnel about 50 miles before reaching Denver. It is 6.21 miles (9.99 km) long with a crest elevation of 9242 feet (2817 meters) (some sources give the elevation as 9239 feet)

There are dozens of other tunnels on this route varying from a little over 100 feet in length up to a mile or so.


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## UKTraveller (Jan 29, 2011)

Wow - excellent replies a really helpful thank you everyone

I have been to SAN FRANCISCO before (sorry for calling it San Fran) and loved it so have done the usualy Alcatraz and other stuff so this time hope to get across to Sausalito etc.

I'll pop back later as I am just off out.

Once again many thanks!

P.S We were thinking of breaking the journey in Reno for some gambling but any other reccommended stops for one night?

Marc


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## Rider (Jan 29, 2011)

Actually, folks stretched out asleep are not "disgusting", they are merely engaged normal human behavior - in public, because that's what they can afford. Smoking is what's disgusting. This does point out that there's actually lots of room in coach, way more than on busses and twice as much as on airlines - plus you can get up and walk around ANY time, stretch, meet (usually) friendly people in the lounge car, etc.

I love traveling in sleeper but it usually does cost at least 3 or 4 times as much as coach - sometimes we coach riders get referred to as the unwashed, but in fact it's not too hard at all to stay clean and neat. Bring a towel and washcloth with you in plastic bags. Sometimes you might wish the bathroom was a little cleaner - but again, that's life in public.

Anyone else see the irony of criticizing the abbreviation of a city name on a forum that lives by its (often obscure) acronyms and abbreviations?

Enjoy your trip! I've done it 3 times now, and can't wait to go again.


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## ThayerATM (Jan 29, 2011)

Rider said:


> Actually, folks stretched out asleep are not "disgusting", they are merely engaged normal human behavior - in public, because that's what they can afford. Smoking is what's disgusting. This does point out that there's actually lots of room in coach, way more than on busses and twice as much as on airlines - plus you can get up and walk around ANY time, stretch, meet (usually) friendly people in the lounge car, etc.
> 
> I love traveling in sleeper but it usually does cost at least 3 or 4 times as much as coach - sometimes we coach riders get referred to as the unwashed, but in fact it's not too hard at all to stay clean and neat. Bring a towel and washcloth with you in plastic bags. Sometimes you might wish the bathroom was a little cleaner - but again, that's life in public.
> 
> ...


Rider, I must agree that smoking is disgusting, and coach sleepers stretching out into the aisle is "NORMAL" human behavior. But smoking is a matter of choice, if ADDICTION is really a matter of choice. In any case, I'm addicted. I really do try and stand down wind from people I'm talking with. h34r: My use of the term "disgusting" for sleepers is my warped sense of humor showing through.

Coach travelers have as much right to travel the way they want to travel, as I do. I budget for travel in bedrooms for the occasional need for privacy, and for immediate relief of calls of nature in the middle of the night. Add to that the convenience of a shower when needed, and a convenient place to store things, and the availability of the meals for "free" :lol: and I'm all set. Aside from sleeping, we usually spend most of our LD train traveling in the observation car, which is why the Coast Starlight is my favorite train. The Pacific Parlor Car is perfect for me.

As for abbreviated city names... One special word comes to my mind. Black people are free to use that word for, about, or against their own people. I, as a white person, am not. I think that the denizens of San Francisco are free to jealously guard the use of the word "Frisco" for themselves, and look on with distain when outsiders use the term. That's oddly American, isn't it? :wacko:


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## PRR 60 (Jan 29, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Back to power: US current is 110 volts, 60 cycle. Sometimes it is also labeled as 115 volts. You will need to be sure of the adaptors. The best would probably be to get one with the outputs you need from a place in the US such as Radio Shack. I know firt had plugging an adaptor into the charging unit can result in the death of the charging unit, and not necessarily immediately.


Most AC adaptors for computers and other electronics are dual voltage (240V and 120V) and frequency (50hz and 60hz). The acceptable voltages and frequencies are on the charger nameplate. If that is the case, the only thing you will need is a plug adaptor. A voltage and frequency convertor should not be required. Plug adaptors are a couple of dollars (or pounds). Full convertors are more expensive.

I travel overseas and have never needed a power convertor.


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## Cristobal (Jan 29, 2011)

Rider said:


> Anyone else see the irony of criticizing the abbreviation of a city name on a forum that lives by its (often obscure) acronyms and abbreviations?


I don't believe that there was any criticism at all. Certainly not from me. I was just trying to help our British guest avoid receiving some attitude from an uppity barista or the like while he is visiting the home of the World Champion Giants. 

Y'all can call it whatever you like as far as I'm concerned.


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## The Journalist (Jan 29, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> P.S We were thinking of breaking the journey in Reno for some gambling but any other recommended stops for one night?


As a local, I'd definitely suggest stopping in Reno if you want to gamble. The Reno station is in a "trench" of sorts, and is very close to all the downtown casinos-Harrah's and Silver Legacy/Eldorado/Circus Circus are the primary ones. The Siena might be open again by September-it was a really nice, small boutique hotel that had a string of misfortune but was bought and will ostensibly be reopened. There are some other casinos that are a quick bus ride away: Peppermill and Atlantis are resorts with an Italian and tropical motif, respectively. Both can be accessed on the "Rapid" bendy-bus service down Virginia street. The Grand Sierra Resort (formerly Reno Hilton, formerly MGM, formerly Bally's-and a few locals still refer to it as one or all of these) on Mill, has the biggest table game area I've seen in Reno and tends to be either mostly empty or filled with conventioners or winter sports fans. To avoid a huge wall of text, send me a private message me if you want more info.

Reno tends to be a long stop (they give it an hour and a half to get here from Truckee, and it usually takes around 55 minutes so it ends up sitting there for half an hour or more) but don't go gambling if you're not staying-you'll almost certainly miss the train to continue. There are no clocks on American slot machines like there are in some countries.

Regarding smoke stops: Last time I rode the Zephyr both Winnemucca and Elko (the rural Nevada stops between Reno and Salt Lake) were both smoke stops-in fact we arrived in Elko almost 45 minutes early after an elderly passenger had some medical crisis and we apparently went faster to get her to a waiting ambulance.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Jan 29, 2011)

IF you are running UK gear in the US you WILL need a HEAVY step up transformer most of the time .

those " travel adapters" are really TRIAC or SCR choppers ( not unlike how the older AEM-7s was useing a chopper for speed control ! )

It	PWMs half of the 220-240 UK to US 110-120

Its the same circuit as a leveton light dimmer !!

the 50W/1500W combos are really a 50 W step up Xfmer and a chopper in one box but they are limited by a ice cube sized transfprmer for step up the US 110-120 to UK 220-240 use but	1500 for step down . as the PMW is a mostly lossless funtion you can pump more trught a smaller brick ..

for anything other then a cellphone charger you might need a REAL large transformer . Unless !!!! your device is universal .

most good quality SMPS ( light weight )	wall bricks are	rated for 90 to 250	so they work anywhere .

I know my Apple power adapters are universal	so is my phone charger .

you may not need a Xfmer for those devices

Look at the label . It will say what its rated for . If it is universal you will only need a physical adapter ..

Here is the Xfmers that is needed	for non universal devices My link..

Peter


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## George Harris (Jan 29, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> . . . so this time hope to get across to Sausalito etc.


Thanks to the wonders of the internet, you can find the information needed, but here is a pointer: You can go to Sausalito by bus, and return by ferry, or the other way round. The buses are public transport operated by Golden Gate Transit. You can catch them at several places in SF (my short for San Francisco) or at the south end of the Golden Gate bridge, itself. The ferries from Sausalito go to either the Ferry Building or Pier 39. The fare is less to the Ferry Building, maybe because the pier is considered a tourist destination. You get great views of the GG Bridge, Alcatraz, the Bay Bridge, and of course the surrounding cities and hills from the ferry. There are a couple of nice places to eat in Sausalito, and it is not a bad place to just wander around in and relax.

As someone who has worked in SF for 3 years, and lives close to where I work, one of the most useless things to have in the city of SF is an automobile.

Get acquainted with Muni (the bus operator) and BART. For someone interested in various forms of urban transport you can see just about all of them in and under Market Street.

On the surface you have:

1. Diesel buses

2. Electric trolley buses

3. Streetcars operated with "Heritage" equipment from many parts of the US and Europe

Then, one level down you have the

4. Muni light rail vehicles - essentially modern streetcars

And below that

5. BART - "Heavy Rail" transit. BART is also wierd in that it is broad gauge - 5'-6"


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## UKTraveller (Jan 29, 2011)

Wow some great replies and very helpful ones as well!  

 

Having been to SF 2 years ago and it being my favourite US city I am very much looking forward to going back there and seeing more of it - any one reccommend a good eaterie for steak ad rib enthusiasts? I model myself on the legend that is Adam Richman (Man v Food!)  

 

Chicago will be new to us so looking forward to that a lot but need to do a good list of things to see and do there as it is the great unknown for the UK boys! AT least I am comfortable with SF now and the transport links.

 

The trip is a fair way off and flights are booked but yet to book the Amtrak or hotels but no real hurry.

 

So, further advice on the long trip on Amtrak, SF things to see and do and eat and the same for Chicago most welcome!

 

Marc  :hi:


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## Bobalski (Jan 29, 2011)

In my 2008 trip blog (linked in sig) there is a couple of pages of stuff from when we did a few days in SFO.

There is a neat little video I took of our cable car trip from the top of Nob Hill all the way to Fishermans Wharf whilst standing on the running board as well as some pics from an afternoon in Sausalito. From memory we caught a taxi over and came back via the ferry. There were 4 of us, so the taxi was not that bad an option financially.

The thing that hit me most about SFO is the queues. They queue on the footpath for a table at every good restaurant, no matter what time of day. It was weird..lol


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## George Harris (Jan 29, 2011)

Didn't think of it earlier, but for the high points of your train trip, a map showing them can be found on the UPRR web site:

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/maps/attachments/elevations.pdf

You will be on routes shown on this map between Emeryville and Denver. East of Denver, you will be on the BNSF (ex CB&Q) which is south of the UP route between Cheyenne, North Platte, Omaha, and Chicago.

My sources I checked earlier differ somewhat in the elevations given. Here are theirs for your route. Remember that the Union Pacific is a conglomeration of the original Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, Denver and Rio Grande Western, Texas and Pacific, Missouri Pacific, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, Chicago and Northwestern, St. Louis Southwestern, pieces of the Gulf Mobile and Ohio, and prabably a few more I can't think of right now.

Going west to east:

6,887 feet, Norden CA, SP milepost 192.50 (from Oakland)

5,096 feet, Elko NV, SP milepost 559.30

5,901 feet, Hogan's Tunnel UT, WP milepost 753.69 (from Oakland via Feather River Canyon - longer than SP milage)

7,440 feet, Summit UT, D&RGW milepost 651.40 (from Denver via Pueblo. The original D&RGW.)

9,239 feet, Winter Park CO, D&RGW milepost 52.85 (from Denver, D&SL mileposts direct from Denver.)

Beyond Denver, it is all downhill the rest of the way to Chicago.

Worth noting: If you have any altitude or breathing problems, you might want to discuss this with a doctor, as you will be spending the most part of 36 hours straight above 5,000 feet elevation. Denver is called the Mile High City because that is its elevation. However, it is NOT in the mountains. It is on the plain at the foot of the mountains. The terrain slopes down gradually all the way from there to the Mississippi River crossing that is about 160 miles short of Chicago.


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## Bierboy (Jan 29, 2011)

I wouldn't say a car is totally useless in SF. While there this past October, we traveled to Sacramento to visit the state railway museum which was great. We also drove down the coast on Route 1 to Monterey for a day trip which was beautiful and also north across the GG bridge into Muir woods to see the redwoods.


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## George Harris (Jan 29, 2011)

Bierboy said:


> I wouldn't say a car is totally useless in SF. While there this past October, we traveled to Sacramento to visit the state railway museum which was great. We also drove down the coast on Route 1 to Monterey for a day trip which was beautiful and also north across the GG bridge into Muir woods to see the redwoods.


That was *IN* San Francisco. If you are going to Muir Woods or Monterey then you do need a car. Sacramento Railroad Museum? Maybe, maybe not. have no tried that one, but have made a couple trips to Sacramento by train.


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## Cristobal (Jan 29, 2011)

Bierboy said:


> I wouldn't say a car is totally useless in SF. While there this past October, we traveled to Sacramento to visit the state railway museum which was great. We also drove down the coast on Route 1 to Monterey for a day trip which was beautiful and also north across the GG bridge into Muir woods to see the redwoods.


Maybe on a day-by-day basis (rent a car for a day trip and then return it). I certainly wouldn't suggest renting a car for any extended time while in 'the city' as parking fees alone might equal or exceed rental fees.


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## UKTraveller (Jan 31, 2011)

Evening all

After much debate we have decided to get the 2 person sleeper which works out at $700 so in £ it is £218. Seems a lot but we need some sort of comfort for 52 hours.

Do we get meals and drinks included in ths price?

Many thanks


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 31, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> After much debate we have decided to get the 2 person sleeper which works out at $700 so in £ it is £218. Seems a lot but we need some sort of comfort for 52 hours. Do we get meals and drinks included in ths price?


Yes, drinks and meals are included when received in the diner. However, according to xe.com the interbank rate is more like $700 = £*4*37.


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## jis (Jan 31, 2011)

daxomni said:


> UKTraveller said:
> 
> 
> > After much debate we have decided to get the 2 person sleeper which works out at $700 so in £ it is £218. Seems a lot but we need some sort of comfort for 52 hours. Do we get meals and drinks included in ths price?
> ...


The $700 = £218 is aspirational. It will take quite a while for that to come to pass, if ever


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## ThayerATM (Jan 31, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> Evening all
> 
> After much debate we have decided to get the 2 person sleeper which works out at $700 so in £ it is £218. Seems a lot but we need some sort of comfort for 52 hours.
> 
> ...


I think that was a good decision. But keep in mind that while "drinks" does include water and soft drinks, it does not not include anything with alcohol in them. That's on your dime. You pay extra for alcoholic beverages.


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## UKTraveller (Jan 31, 2011)

ThayerATM said:


> UKTraveller said:
> 
> 
> > Evening all
> ...


Cheers all. Just about to go book it!


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## ThayerATM (Jan 31, 2011)

jis said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > UKTraveller said:
> ...


Isn't Great Britian using the "Euro" now? What's the conversion rate between the Euro and the £? What's the conversion rate between the $ and the £? What's the conversion rate between the Euro and the $? :unsure:


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## UKTraveller (Jan 31, 2011)

ThayerATM said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni said:
> ...


No, we are still £ thank god! 2 people fare for whole journey plus sleeper is $700 so around £436


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## Bierboy (Jan 31, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't say a car is totally useless in SF. While there this past October, we traveled to Sacramento to visit the state railway museum which was great. We also drove down the coast on Route 1 to Monterey for a day trip which was beautiful and also north across the GG bridge into Muir woods to see the redwoods.
> ...


We used the car quite often *IN* SF, also. Driving there is part of the experience...especially vaulting the hills. As someone else mentioned, parking fees can be rather ludicrous...


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## George Harris (Jan 31, 2011)

Bierboy said:


> We used the car quite often *IN* SF, also. Driving there is part of the experience...especially vaulting the hills. As someone else mentioned, parking fees can be rather ludicrous...


Yes, it is a good one day once only experience.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 31, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > We used the car quite often *IN* SF, also. Driving there is part of the experience...especially vaulting the hills. As someone else mentioned, parking fees can be rather ludicrous...
> ...


Driving in San Francisco is especially fun with a standard transmission. Waiting at a light on a steep San Francisco uphill with a car right behind is the Super Bowl of brake, clutch, accelerator coordination. Of course, you could cheat and use the hand brake, but that's not sporting.


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## rrdude (Jan 31, 2011)

Bierboy said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Bierboy said:
> ...


We chose NOT to rent a car, OVERNIGHT, because even at the Holiday Inn Express, it was something like $30 for parking, we were near Fisherman's Wharf. We only rented a car to get to Napa. Could have used Transit/Ferry, but would have added quite a lot of dwell (wait) time, and didn't want to chance missing the Wine Train.

But if it's JUST to get around SF, no way is a car needed.


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## the_traveler (Jan 31, 2011)

rrdude said:


> didn't want to chance missing the Wine Train


(hic ... hic ... hic)


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## deimos (Jan 31, 2011)

In addition to checking out sights and scenery, I find there are times when it is great to grab a couple of beers and relax in the lounge or in your room. On my last Southwest Chief trip, I met several interesting/diverse folks to include a former ZZ Top roadie, a meteorologist who only travels by train while enjoying a beer (or two) in the lounge area after dinner. Boredom being a relative condition, there are times when I enjoy sitting back and listening to tunes. Although I have never been on the Zephyr, the route sounds extremely picturesque. As such, I can't imagine being too bored.


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## UKTraveller (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, its all booked, flights are booked and now just got to book the hotels. So glad we got the room now!

 

One problem - got to wait until September for the trip!  hboy:


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## UKTraveller (Feb 1, 2011)

As a newcomer to LD Amtrak journeys can someone please point me in the right direction on the Amtrak website to show what meals and drinks are included in our sleeper package? Also, how do you book for meals? Does the attendant come around and take reservations from you? Obviously if still hungry after meals there will be some sort of area you can buy burgers etc won’t there? I am really looking forward to this trip but will also look forward to stretching my legs and having an unhealthy smoke at the stops where I can do so, probably Salt Lake City at 3.30am!


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## the_traveler (Feb 1, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> One problem - got to wait until September for the trip!  hboy:


That's the hardest part!





Did you say that you booked the train yet?



If not, do so ASAP!





On the Amtrak website, there is a link called "Meals & Dining". 3 meals a day *IN THE DINING CAR ONLY* are included in your sleeper fare. (Say you want a burger for lunch. In the Dining Car, it's included. In the cafe, you must pay for it!



) Breakfast is first come, first served - but the Dining car is open from 6:30 AM to 10 AM or so. Thus there is never a problem! Lunch is also usually first come, first served, but could be by reservations. Dinner is always by reservation. But sleepers get the first choice of times. They come to your room.

There is a cafe on the lower level of the Sightseer Lounge Car, but you have to pay for these. In the Dining car, you can order *ANYTHING *on the menu! For Breakfast, you are also allowed meat (bacon or sausage) if you want. For lunch and dinner. desert is also included. Alcoholic beverages are not included, but can be purchased.


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## UKTraveller (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you!

Yes, all booked up now (this morning) Got to collect tickets in Emeryville on departure date!


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## RRrich (Feb 1, 2011)

As far as buying food between meals, I have never found it to be necessary, beyond some munchies with a beer.

Amtrak meals are more than ample and pretty good in general.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 1, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Lunch is also usually first come, first served, but could be by reservations. Dinner is always by reservation. But sleepers get the first choice of times. They come to your room.


Is the unreserved lunch unique to the Zephyr? On the LD trains I ride lunch has generally been by reservation.

I'd suggest the OP also keep in mind that if you are sleeping or have your door closed or are in the lounge car or using the facilities at whatever random time the dining car attendant comes by you might not be able to get a reservation and could be stuck waiting for a "last call" at the end of the next dining period that may or may not come. Also, if you get one of the later reservations don't be surprised if the diner is "out" of several menu items.



RRrich said:


> As far as buying food between meals, I have never found it to be necessary, beyond some munchies with a beer. Amtrak meals are more than ample and pretty good in general.


I have a hunch that much of the appreciation for Amtrak food comes from subconscious comparisons to airline food, and yeah it's not too bad in that specific comparison. But if you're comparing Amtrak food to any stationary restaurant I'd say it's testing the limits of what people would actually pay real money for. Think generic cafeteria food and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the quality is like. Amtrak's dining experience is my most likely source of disappointment on any given trip. It's true that having the toilets back up or having the train be seriously delayed is much worse, but that's been relatively rare in recent trips compared to the routinely disappointments I've had in the diner. I'm not sure exactly how to fix it, but Amtrak's latest attempt (the much maligned CCC) doesn't seem to address anything I've ever been disappointed with.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 1, 2011)

:hi: Remember that if you are in a sleeper you can take your own alcohol on board and have wine/mixed drinks/beer etc. in the privacy of your room! Also whatever kind of snacks you like can be carried aboard, the prices in the cafe car are airline like (read overpriced!)so Id suggest you do this, no point in paying $5+ for a beer or $6 for an airline small bottle of liquor! You can get ice from your SCA, but the train staff cant keep food or drink for you, its against the law! A great trip, please continue to ask questions about your trip, we have lots of knowledge on here, lots of opinions and views, some are even true! :lol:


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## the_traveler (Feb 1, 2011)

daxomni said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Lunch is also usually first come, first served, but could be by reservations. Dinner is always by reservation. But sleepers get the first choice of times. They come to your room.
> ...


On very few trains that I have been on is lunch by reservation. It is usually the least patronized meal!



RRrich said:


> As far as buying food between meals, I have never found it to be necessary, beyond some munchies with a beer. Amtrak meals are more than ample and pretty good in general.





daxomni said:


> I have a hunch that much of the appreciation for Amtrak food comes from subconscious comparisons to airline food, and yeah it's not too bad in that specific comparison. But if you're comparing Amtrak food to any stationary restaurant I'd say it's testing the limits of what people would actually pay real money for. Think generic cafeteria food and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the quality is like. Amtrak's dining experience is my most likely source of disappointment on any given trip.


While I admit it's not up to 5 star status, I have not been disappointed in the meals. And you do get plenty. I have had to "force" myself to go to eat the included lunch at noon - after eating a large breakfast at 7 AM. Or found it hard to chose a 5:30 PM meal time after just eating lunch at 2 PM. I seldom eat 3 meals a day at home, and feel guilty about "missing the included meal"! I'm much more likely to chose a dinner time like 6:30 or 7 PM.


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## Trainmans daughter (Feb 1, 2011)

I like the food on Amtrak! I like it so much that if I didn't get off at "smoke stops" to get some excersize, I'd be big as a blimp at the end of a LD trip!

On my Coast Starlight trips last summer and last month, and also on my CZ trip summer before last lunch reservations were taken. However, each of these trains were pretty much sold-out, so maybe that's why reservations were used.


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## rrdude (Feb 1, 2011)

I gotta agree with Dax, the meals on Amtrak CAN be good, but are usually IMHO, just "average" at best. While you might get a nice cut of steak, on the same plate the potato might be hard as a rock, and you can almost always count on the veggies being cooked to death.

While one usually does get offered a wide variety, including vegetarian, the gourmand among us usually don't write home about the meals on Amtrak.

Now, having said _that_, one will find that there are indeed many, many "fans" of the meals that Amtrak puts out in their full service dining cars. Why the wide range of opinion? Well obviously different people have different tastes and standards, etc., etc.

However, I think in _general_ you will find that younger travelers (I'm guessing here, maybe under 35) will be much more appreciative of the meals served in the Amtrak dining cars, because they have only experienced "airplane food" or Amcafe offerings before while traveling via rail.

Old farts like me (52) are less than satisfied, partly because we know what COULD be served, and what WAS served on the trains, both in the early years of Amtrak, and of course without question, the "glory days of railroad dining".

As a dining car employee in the late 70's and early 80's, I saw the Amtrak chefs push out some pretty amazing meals, with pride. When Congress pushed this "modified meal service" crap onto Amtrak, and they cut back both the staff, and meal options, it was downhill from there.

They are a lot of Amtrak chefs who do amazing things today, _given what they have to work with_, but you can only do so much, with what you have.

As many here will note, I have often stated that one can still have a "great dining experience" even if the food is not four-star. The friends, atmosphere, and the SERVICE ("It's The Service Stoopid!") can all make an average-tasting meal be overlooked. (a bottle of wine doesn't hurt either!)

So my summary is this: Don't expect cruise-style or five-star meals, you won't get it. But you may be very pleasantly surprised from time-to-time. If you keep your expectations in check, and don't let some minor transgression bug you. (like serving very good tasting sorbet after dinner, but serving it in the original little cardboard cup it comes in, delivered to you in a plastic bowl........Grrrrrrrrrr) then you will be fine.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 1, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> While I admit it's not up to 5 star status, I have not been disappointed in the meals. And you do get plenty. I have had to "force" myself to go to eat the included lunch at noon - after eating a large breakfast at 7 AM. Or found it hard to chose a 5:30 PM meal time after just eating lunch at 2 PM. I seldom eat 3 meals a day at home, and feel guilty about "missing the included meal"! I'm much more likely to chose a dinner time like 6:30 or 7 PM.


I'm by no means immune to overeating, but the less enamored you are with the dining experience the easier it is to avoid overconsumption. It would be great if Amtrak would raise the bar on the quality, nutrition, and freshness of their food but that's not the only way they can impress me. I honestly think a lot of the eating that takes place on-board is a result of the limited options available to folks who simply get bored. If Amtrak provided more things to do on-board then maybe people wouldn't need distract themselves through constant eating. For instance, as Amtrak is strictly a North America network they could follow airlines like Jet Blue with personal satellite television screens. They could also include interactive on-screen games you could play against other passengers on the same train. Professionally researched and smoothly delivered trails and rails content could be loaded into the same system and tied to a live GPS map that covers any interesting history about where you are and what's coming up next. As for the dining experience itself, why not give socially inclined passengers a classy bar to sit/stand at instead of generic fast food style plastic tables? Not everyone is interested in splurging on calories; some folks just want to use their dining experience as a chance to meet other folks. Having a bar might allow folks to show up for a chat over a drink or two without having to order a full meal when they're not hungry. I'm sure there are reasons why none of this is currently in place, but these are some of the things I'd change if it were up to me.


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## rrdude (Feb 1, 2011)

As they install Wi-Fi on more and more trains, I'd love to see a GPS display on one of the screens, or both, in the SSL cars, top and bottom. Travelers would virtually always know "where" they were, how fast the train was traveling, what stations, cities, geographic areas they were around, or coming too.

Little cost, big bang.

Like good service.

Little cost, big bang.


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## UKTraveller (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you all for your helpful and informative replies. As a UK traveller with ZERO experiece of Amtrak it is great getting allof this input even though my trip is still 8 months away. I like to plan well ahead and with flights and Amtrak booked I just need to do the hotels now 

I love geography and the sheer size of the US so I am still amazed by the sheer length of the trip as here, and I live just outside of London, the longest journey we have is probably the south west of the UK to the tip of Scotland which is around 600 miles and our rail prices here are a rip off as well :wacko:

I am very much looking forward to being in SF and Chicago but also passing through the various states aboard this wonderful train!

Keep the tips coming.

Thank you


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## Peter KG6LSE (Feb 1, 2011)

"""However, I think in _general_ you will find that younger travelers (I'm guessing here, maybe under 35) will be much more appreciative of the meals served in the Amtrak dining cars, because they have only experienced "airplane food" or Amcafe offerings before while traveling via rail.""

the Only meal I have ever had on a plane that came close to the lunch burger In the dining car was On a 777 from dulles WDC	to holland in 98 . and that was a happy meal to a pre teen .

amtrak dining is not buca de beppo or applebees . but its MUCH better then Micky D's and that to like you said might be why its ok to me . 24YO here.

I look at it this way . I don't Feel	to badly ripped	for the price of the food .

I rather eat Nuked amcafe burgers over any airline food anyday !! .

Mind the last time I few commercial . I had a 20 Pc mc-nugget and a Pizza hut personal pan and a HUGE drink . all for a 4 H flight ..

Peter


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## PaulM (Feb 1, 2011)

Since you opted for a roomette, my comment won't be that useful to you. But I wanted to mention that there is no comparison between coach seats on long distanced Amtrak trains and standard (2nd class) seats on British trains.

At least this was my observation on a British Rail (that will date the trip, ca. 1994) Intercity train between Scotland and London. The seats in the then new coaches seemed more like economy class airline seats; whereas Amtrak LD coach seats are similar in size and pitch, but not plushness, to airline first class.

Another point of reference. Quite a while ago I was chatting with a European in the sightseer lounge on the Zephyr who claimed Amtrak was much better than European railroads. Obviously, he wasn't talking about the system as a whole, on-time performance, etc. But the train itself. Whereas European trains are more utilitarian, getting you from A to B, trains like the California Zephyr are often referred to, sometimes disparagingly, as land cruises.


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## the_traveler (Feb 1, 2011)

daxomni said:


> I honestly think a lot of the eating that takes place on-board is a result of the limited options available to folks who simply get bored. If Amtrak provided more things to do on-board then maybe people wouldn't need distract themselves through constant eating. For instance, as Amtrak is strictly a North America network they could follow airlines like Jet Blue with personal satellite television screens. They could also include interactive on-screen games you could play against other passengers on the same train.


 When you're at 30,000 feet, I do understand TVs. But at 15 feet, why not look out the window?







> As for the dining experience itself, why not give socially inclined passengers a classy bar to sit/stand at instead of generic fast food style plastic tables? Not everyone is interested in splurging on calories; some folks just want to use their dining experience as a chance to meet other folks. Having a bar might allow folks to show up for a chat over a drink or two without having to order a full meal when they're not hungry.


And the purpose of the Sightseer *LOUNGE* or *PACIFIC PARLOUR CAR* is what again?



I myself go there to chat with other passengers and/or play games with other passengers and/or have a drink or two without ordering a full meal!



Who knows - I may even buy something from the cafe or (on the PPC) from the bar!


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## sunchaser (Feb 2, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> As a newcomer to LD Amtrak journeys can someone please point me in the right direction on the Amtrak website to show what meals and drinks are included in our sleeper package? Also, how do you book for meals? Does the attendant come around and take reservations from you? Obviously if still hungry after meals there will be some sort of area you can buy burgers etc won’t there? I am really looking forward to this trip but will also look forward to stretching my legs and having an unhealthy smoke at the stops where I can do so, probably Salt Lake City at 3.30am!


Welcome to the board!

You can find the info here and here. You can also go to the sightseer car for burgers or snacks. Your Sleeper Car Attendant will come around & make reservations for the meals. Enjoy your trip!


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## DET63 (Feb 2, 2011)

One language issue (especially important for smokers from the U.K. in San Francisco to remember) is that the word _****_ does not refer to a cigarette. It is instead a somewhat derogatory term for people of a certain sexual persuasion of which the British vocabulary also has a number of colorful (or should I say _colourful_?) slang terms.


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## George Harris (Feb 2, 2011)

DET63 said:


> One language issue (especially important for smokers from the U.K. in San Francisco to remember) is that the word _****_ does not refer to a cigarette. It is instead a somewhat derogatory term for people of a certain sexual persuasion of which the British vocabulary also has a number of colorful (or should I say _colourful_?) slang terms.


Don't right now remember whether this phrase is just Australian or all the UK world, but if you want a wake up call, DO NOT ask someone to "knock me up" at such and such a time. Particularly embarrasing if you are young and female.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 2, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> When you're at 30,000 feet, I do understand TVs. But at 15 feet, why not look out the window?


I enjoy looking out the window just as you do. But there are folks who get bored with it, amazing as that may sound. Some Amtrak trips can feel very long for today's riders and their ever shrinking attention span. Also, if you're like me and ride the exact same trains over and over again it can get a little old over time. I'm not saying everyone would be enthusiastic over such a system, but many folks seem to enjoy them enough on on planes to select one carrier over another. That being the case I think Amtrak could do a lot to improve their image by putting more effort into adapting to more modern sensibilities.



the_traveler said:


> And the purpose of the Sightseer *LOUNGE* or *PACIFIC PARLOUR CAR* is what again?


There's no need to *SHOUT* about it trav. :blink:

The Pacific Parlor Car is more like what I'm talking about, but...

1. It's only on one route in the entire network.

2. It's only for meeting other sleeper passengers.

3. It's currently slated to be decommissioned.

The current lounge cars aren't terrible, but there's nothing classy about them in my view. In fact some of them are in some serious need of a little TLC, at least on the routes I tend to ride. In general their stale fatty food and plastic furniture bring to mind a McDonald's on wheels. Maybe Micky-D's is a great place to meet new people but I'd never know because I can't stand spending my time in there. If it's too much to ask for fancy lounges then how about a mid-level Starbucks-style environment? Seems like there has to be middle ground in here somewhere.


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## UKTraveller (Feb 4, 2011)

*Sorry to 'bump' this but I just had a thought ...*

* *

*Our confirmations for thr trip are on email with a barcode and reference number that we have to scan at the station to get our actual tickets. Given thet the coach leaves SF and arrives at Emeryville 30 mins before departure will this give us enough time with baggage check in as well? Barring this is there anywhere in SF we can get our tickets?*

* *

*Cheers*

*M*


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## amtrakwolverine (Feb 4, 2011)

arrive at SF at least a hour or so to check your bags and print your tickets and get the lay of the land. They start boarding about 45 minutes before departure.


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## the_traveler (Feb 4, 2011)

The only "station" in SF is at the Ferry Building (SFC). They have ticketing, a Ouik-Trak machine and checked baggage service. You then take a dedicated Amtrak bus to Emeryville (across the Bay). All the other "stations" in SF are literally only bus stops, and offer none of the above.


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## hello (Feb 4, 2011)

_daxomni ... can you explain about the PPC being decommissioned? Do they have any idea of when this will happen? Hopefully, not before this May when we will be on-board!!_


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## zephyr17 (Feb 4, 2011)

hello said:


> _daxomni ... can you explain about the PPC being decommissioned? Do they have any idea of when this will happen? Hopefully, not before this May when we will be on-board!!_


Last I saw, the PPCs were scheduled to be decommissioned in 2012. I think I saw it in the equipment plan.

The justification is that they are old (they are, Budd 1955) and non-standard so are difficult to maintain. However, as demonstrated by VIA, properly maintained stainless steel Budd cars can last essentially forever. A lot of the maintenance problems are with the HVAC system. I understood when they did rebuilding about 3 years ago in preparation for the re-launch, the replaced the HVAC system with a more modern one, but maybe not. HVAC still seems to be the source of a great deal of problems with the cars.

Don't get your heart too set on them though. Over 4 trips in the last year, the PPCs have been MIA on 2 of them. The infamous CCC (Diner-Lounge) were substituted, and they do not work anywhere at all as well.


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## George Harris (Feb 4, 2011)

UKTraveller said:


> *Sorry to 'bump' this but I just had a thought ...*
> 
> * *
> 
> ...


The Amtrak station in San Francisco referred to as the Ferry Building is a brick building south of the true Ferry Building, itself. The waiting room and ticket office are on the side of the building away from the street. There are no tracks, other than a set of streetcar tracks, anywhere near it. There is a bus stop sign on the street in front of the building where you will get on the bus to cross the Bay. Get there about 45 minutes or so ahead of the scheduled bus time. You can check your baggage and pick up your ticket there. You do not have to and should not wait until you get to Emeryville to do this. I go through it fairly regularly to go to Fresno or Sacramento. The waiting room will seat about 30 people, but given the normal San Francisco weather, after dealing with ticket and baggage issues, most people go back outside and hang around or sit in the vicinity of the bus stop sign. Once your baggage is checked at the Ferry Building station, you will not have to deal with again. Your larger carry on pieces also usually go under the bus to cross the bay. Those pieces you will have to pick up when you get off the bus in front of the Emeryville station. There will be quite a few poeple around who have done this before, so you should have no difficulty.


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## ThayerATM (Feb 4, 2011)

zephyr17 said:


> hello said:
> 
> 
> > _daxomni ... can you explain about the PPC being decommissioned? Do they have any idea of when this will happen? Hopefully, not before this May when we will be on-board!!_
> ...


I agree that the CCC can't replace the PPC. But picture this ---

On the Zephyr on one trip from EMY to CHI, Amtrak substituted a seriously ill full diner with a CCC. The CCC didn't function "well" in that capacity, but it did function. It was the CCC crew that made that trip especially unpleasant. They were extremely crabby. :lol:


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## dlagrua (Feb 5, 2011)

Here are a couple of things that might make the trip more comfortable. Buy a Coleman camping pillow. Walmart and sporting goods stores carry them. They run about $7.00 and fold into a very compact pillow case/stuff sack. An ipad can keep things interesting and a laptop can be your personal movie player (but please use earphones in coach). Overnight in coach can be comfortable but the second night may be the challenge. I've seen some people bring blankets on the train and hang them from the baggage rack effectively making the coach seating more private and a bit more quiet. You can bring snacks and soft drinks with you. If you freeze the soft drinks, they will stay cold for hours. Do you like to play cards? Then buy a pack and ply in the sightseer lounge. Books and magazines also help pass the time.

Decide beforehand how many meals you intend to eat on the train. If you intend to buy eight meals for the three day trip ( x 2) the price of an onboard upgrade to a roomette might be minimal. For two an averge breakfast can run $20, lunch $25-$30 and dinner can easily run $50. Point is food costs may run you $100 per day per person. If a roomette can be had for $200 ( check for onboard upgrade price) thats the break even point.

There is always some boredom on a long train trip but you have plenty of room to walk around and hopefully you will be able to enjoy the sights, sleep 8 hours each night and enjoy the trip..


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## Bobalski (Feb 5, 2011)

Just on the barcode thing.

I am leaving from LA Union Station. I have the confirmation barcode email on my laptop which is with me,but I didn't bother printing it out in Oz because I have plenty of time on the day we leave (leaving 18:15 but need to checkout of our hotel at midday). I was just under the impression that I can rock up to a ticket window and pickup my USA Railpass and all my sleeper tickets on the day we leave. Is this correct, or do I need to find a shop somewhere to print off the email??


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## AlanB (Feb 5, 2011)

You don't need the printout, just the reservation number. The barcode, while useful to the agent, isn't required. Be sure to allow enought time to get through the line and pick up both the pass and your tickets though!


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## Bobalski (Feb 5, 2011)

Thx Alan.

We are flying back from Canada on the 16th and placing our daughter on a late night plane back to Sydney (Oz). After we checkout of our LAX hotel on the 17th, we intend getting the Flyaway bus from LAX into Union Station at around lunchtime. I'll do all necessary ticketing then, well before the 18:15 depature time.

Cheers


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## MrFSS (Feb 5, 2011)

Bobalski said:


> We are flying back from Canada on the 16th and placing our daughter on a late night plane back to Sydney (Oz).


You're not letting your daughter ride the train? Bummer!


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## hello (Feb 5, 2011)

_A tip I had picked from this forum a while ago: buy a (99 cents) inflatable swim ring (the one that a child might use) ... do not inflate them fully ... use them to sit on, or put behind your back ... I've used this tip a number of times ... great when your body starts to ache from sitting so long ... I LOVE IT!_


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## hello (Feb 5, 2011)

_We've been verrrrrrrrrrrry lucky ... over 9 trips on the CS and always had a PCC! I'm excited to have breakfast and lunch in the PCC this time ... so watch ... it won't be there!! Oh well .... we'll still be on the train!_


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## Bobalski (Feb 5, 2011)

MrFSS said:


> Bobalski said:
> 
> 
> > We are flying back from Canada on the 16th and placing our daughter on a late night plane back to Sydney (Oz).
> ...


She needs to go back to work. Bummer...lol


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## RRrich (Feb 5, 2011)

Bobalski said:


> She needs to go back to work. Bummer...lol


*Work *is a four letter word!


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## A.J. (Feb 5, 2011)

I just planned a somewhat last-minute trip on the Zephyr, departing on Feb. 20. Quite a few schools have winter break that week, so I was afraid I wouldn't get a room or good rates, but I was pleasantly surprised to find plenty of rooms and very good prices! I've never ridden the Zephyr in the winter, so I'm looking forward to seeing the Rockies and Sierra Nevadas in their full, snow-covered splendor.


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