# Changes to Capitol Limited/Texas Eagle



## Palmland (Mar 11, 2022)

Another site describes a change that will alter the schedule for the two trains to make a run through of the consists in Chicago. A look at schedules seems to support this with an earlier Texas Eagle departure from Chicago with a longer dwell in St Louis to have minimal schedule change south of there. Apparently the change was to eliminate Chicago having to service the two trains. Can anyone confirm?


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## jiml (Mar 11, 2022)

They tried this once before with the SWC.


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## Rasputin (Mar 11, 2022)

Is there any indication that this would be positive for passengers?


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## lordsigma (Mar 11, 2022)

This appears to be how they are restoring daily service to these two trains - saving a set or two with the run through and taking mechanical work out of Chicago which is severely understaffed.


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## Rasputin (Mar 11, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> This appears to be how they are restoring daily service to these two trains - saving a set or two with the run through and taking mechanical work out of Chicago which is severely understaffed.


So where would any mechanical work on these trains be done? DC? San Antonio does not impress me as having a significant mechanical department but perhaps I am incorrect.


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## lordsigma (Mar 11, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> So where would any mechanical work on these trains be done? DC? San Antonio does not impress me as having a significant mechanical department but perhaps I am incorrect.


Probably DC. They’re doing the 1500 mile mechanical inspection at St Louis.


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## Cal (Mar 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Is there any indication that this would be positive for passengers?


This is also my question.


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## joelkfla (Mar 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Is there any indication that this would be positive for passengers?


Wouldn't it provide coast-to-coast service between WAS & LAX 3x a week? Would it eliminate one overnight?

Not the most scenic route, but it would be the first coast-to-coast train in many years.

Maybe being a 2-night train between WAS & Texas would earn full dining service.


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## Cal (Mar 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Wouldn't it provide coast-to-coast service between WAS & LAX 3x a week? Would it eliminate one overnight?
> 
> Not the most scenic route, but it would be the first coast-to-coast train in many years.
> 
> Maybe being a 2-night train between WAS & Texas would earn full dining service.


No, because you would still book it under two different trains (the CL and TE) and you would still have to get off in CHI so they can clean the train. It would just mean the consist moves on to the TE instead of turning around to be the CL, everything else, IIRC, stays the same.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Is there any indication that this would be positive for passengers?


Yes, if it means they can return to 7 day service.


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## PaTrainFan (Mar 12, 2022)

And pairing the two trains with no Sightseer Lounge, meaning they will probably stay that way.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 12, 2022)

When the Capitol runs late then The Texas Eagle Will run late. The same in the other direction. 22’s on time performance is so poor that my GF, a non railfan has learned that train number and would avoid it when booking her own trips.


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## jis (Mar 12, 2022)

Some of the TE delay may get cushioned by the two hour scheduled stop in STL.


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## jiml (Mar 12, 2022)

Cal said:


> No, because you would still book it under two different trains (the CL and TE) and you would still have to get off in CHI so they can clean the train. It would just mean the consist moves on to the TE instead of turning around to be the CL, everything else, IIRC, stays the same.


Through ticketing was offered when they did this previously and they did not clean the rooms of those passengers so ticketed. Coach passengers did have to leave the train however, and sleeper passengers who exited the platform were not permitted to return until general boarding of the second leg. We wound up leaving since the wait was over lunchtime and nothing was available on the train while in CUS. An "occupied" sticker was applied to our bedroom door. I'm going with '97, but could be off by a year.


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## west point (Mar 12, 2022)

San Antonia definitely has maintenance personnel. Every time thru there they did work on whatever I was on. Talked to one who was replacing a marker light. Said they worked on the standby sleeper and coach that laid over there. Now whether that is still the case have no idea either maintenance or spare cars?

EDIT: Checked there is a vacancy at SAS for maintenance foreman. So definitely maintenance there.


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## Rasputin (Mar 12, 2022)

jis said:


> Some of the TE delay may get cushioned by the two hour scheduled stop in STL.


A two hour scheduled stop at Saint Louis. How silly. Why don't they just stay there all night.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> A two hour scheduled stop at Saint Louis. How silly. Why don't they just stay there all night.


Maybe because they're trying to get trains back to daily service??


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## jis (Mar 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> A two hour scheduled stop at Saint Louis. How silly. Why don't they just stay there all night.


That is for an FRA mandated inspection that has been moved out of Chicago to work around staff shortage in Chicago shops while making the service daily. The alternative would be to simply keep the service 5 days a week or cut it down further to stay within the capabilities of Chicago shops.


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## Rasputin (Mar 12, 2022)

jis said:


> That is for an FRA mandated inspection that has been moved out of Chicago to work around staff shortage in Chicago shops while making the service daily. The alternative would be to simply keep the service 5 days a week or cut it down further to stay within the capabilities of Chicago shops.


Thanks for explaining that. That really should help ridership immensely.


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## joelkfla (Mar 12, 2022)

jis said:


> That is for an FRA mandated inspection that has been moved out of Chicago to work around staff shortage in Chicago shops while making the service daily. The alternative would be to simply keep the service 5 days a week or cut it down further to stay within the capabilities of Chicago shops.


I was going to say, consider it a chance to get off the train and walk around. But upon further investigation, St. Louis Gateway station looks very unwelcoming, has no platform shelters, limited seating, is under and surrounded by freeway ramps, gets lots of bad reviews, seems to have only a KFC/Pizza Hut counter for food, and there are reports of aggressive and nasty security guards.

Would an inspection require everyone to get off the train?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I was going to say, consider it a chance to get off the train and walk around. But upon further investigation, St. Louis Gateway station looks very unwelcoming, has no platform shelters, limited seating, is under and surrounded by freeway ramps, gets lots of bad reviews, seems to have only a KFC/Pizza Hut counter for food, and there are reports of aggressive and nasty security guards.
> 
> Would an inspection require everyone to get off the train?


The Hilton Union Station hotel is just a couple of blocks from the train station. It would be a great place to visit, and dine, during the inspection if they allow you to detrain. Not sure how well the hours work for that, though. 






St. Louis Union Station | St. Louis, MO







www.stlouisunionstation.com


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## jis (Mar 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I was going to say, consider it a chance to get off the train and walk around. But upon further investigation, St. Louis Gateway station looks very unwelcoming, has no platform shelters, limited seating, is under and surrounded by freeway ramps, gets lots of bad reviews, seems to have only a KFC/Pizza Hut counter for food, and there are reports of aggressive and nasty security guards.
> 
> Would an inspection require everyone to get off the train?


No.


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## Cal (Mar 12, 2022)

If I am understanding correctly, the inspeciton is the same one that happens to the Chief at Albuquerque -- Very little if any impact to passengers. It would just be a very long fresh-air stop (possibly the longest on the system?)


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## jis (Mar 12, 2022)

Cal said:


> If I am understanding correctly, the inspeciton is the same one that happens to the Chief at Albuquerque -- Very little if any impact to passengers. It would just be a very long fresh-air stop (possibly the longest on the system?)


Yes. The 1500 mile inspection.


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## Rasputin (Mar 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> St. Louis Gateway station ...seems to have only a KFC/Pizza Hut counter for food,


Best news I have heard about the Texas Eagle all day.


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## PaTrainFan (Mar 12, 2022)

My one time on the Eagle going through St. Louis several years ago, I tried to go into the station just to look around and was rudely ordered back to the platform.


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## Palmland (Mar 12, 2022)

jiml said:


> Through ticketing was offered when they did this previously and they did not clean the rooms of those passengers so ticketed.


I certainly hope they do this. With the 11:55 Chicago departure through passengers would not need to detrain to get lunch.

It’s interesting that even with the 3 hours in Chicago, the time WAS-STL is less than 26 hours. Amtrak’s National Ltd took about 24.

Also, I don’t know if the Capitol is running with 2 sleepers, but if it is why not have the second one continue to LA to save switching and servicing at Chicago of the CHI-LAX sleeper.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 12, 2022)

Cal said:


> If I am understanding correctly, the inspeciton is the same one that happens to the Chief at Albuquerque -- Very little if any impact to passengers. It would just be a very long fresh-air stop (possibly the longest on the system?)


Also happens at Minot, and Spokane, and Denver…


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## Cal (Mar 13, 2022)

CCC1007 said:


> Also happens at Minot, and Spokane, and Denver…


Yeah, ABQ is just the first example that came to mind.


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## joelkfla (Mar 13, 2022)

Cal said:


> Yeah, ABQ is just the first example that came to mind.


But those stops don't last 2 hours, IIRC.


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## bms (Mar 13, 2022)

Palmland said:


> Also, I don’t know if the Capitol is running with 2 sleepers, but if it is why not have the second one continue to LA to save switching and servicing at Chicago of the CHI-LAX sleeper.



It's been running with one sleeper, no lounge, and two always-packed coaches. Capitol Limited in coach for the last two years hasn't even been a better experience than a Greyhound bus.

At least with maintenance being done somewhere other than Chicago, there should be fewer instances of boarding #30 on time in Chicago, only to sit in Union Station for an hour or two because the same mechanical problem that delayed that morning's #29 was never fixed.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 13, 2022)

bms said:


> It's been running with one sleeper, no lounge, and two always-packed coaches. Capitol Limited in coach for the last two years hasn't even been a better experience than a Greyhound bus.



I rode the Capitol in coach last June. It wasn't that full, and it was way better, though slower, than a Greyhound bus. I rode it in sleeper last October, but I walked through the coaches to look out the railfan window, and the coaches didn't seem excessively packed. They also were letting people use the CCC as a lounge between meals, and while it wasn't as nice as a sightseer lounge, it was OK.



> At least with maintenance being done somewhere other than Chicago, there should be fewer instances of boarding #30 on time in Chicago, only to sit in Union Station for an hour or two because the same mechanical problem that delayed that morning's #29 was never fixed.



Heh, now of course, what will happen is that the outbound #21 will sit in Union Station for an hour because the mechanical problem that delayed that morning's inbound #29 still needs to be fixed.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 13, 2022)

CCC1007 said:


> Also happens at Minot, and Spokane, and Denver…


San Antonio has the longest Dwell time for the #421 Eagle thru Cars, 10pmish to 245AM.


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## toddinde (Mar 13, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I was going to say, consider it a chance to get off the train and walk around. But upon further investigation, St. Louis Gateway station looks very unwelcoming, has no platform shelters, limited seating, is under and surrounded by freeway ramps, gets lots of bad reviews, seems to have only a KFC/Pizza Hut counter for food, and there are reports of aggressive and nasty security guards.
> 
> Would an inspection require everyone to get off the train?


It’s right on the light rail and one stop from beautifully restored Union Station where one could have a drink. Alternatively, one could ride the light rail to Laclede’s Landing or the Cardinals Sports District. These are doable in one hour, so certainly possible.


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## jis (Mar 13, 2022)

I guess I will get to experience this on my return trip from the Gathering in San Diego, unless of course things change again by then.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 13, 2022)

jis said:


> I guess I will get to experience this on my return trip from the Gathering in San Diego, unless of course things change again by then.


And since it's Amtrak, they Will!


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## bms (Mar 13, 2022)

It looks like Amtrak is still allowing you to book the connection from the westbound Lake Shore Limited to the Texas Eagle, even though that's now only an hour and 47 minutes between trains after both trains had their schedules lengthened. It seems like that connection could be missed fairly often.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 13, 2022)

Double check restaurant times at the Union station hotel. I’ve stayed there many times. Restaurant is not always open when you expect it to be.


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## Palmland (Mar 13, 2022)

If this is accurate, looks like lots of options in the Union Station train shed and hotel.


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## Sidney (Mar 14, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> San Antonio has the longest Dwell time for the #421 Eagle thru Cars, 10pmish to 245AM.


Last year i used that dwell time to walk to the Riverwalk. Plan doing it again this year.
.


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## bms (Mar 14, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> I rode the Capitol in coach last June. It wasn't that full, and it was way better, though slower, than a Greyhound bus. I rode it in sleeper last October, but I walked through the coaches to look out the railfan window, and the coaches didn't seem excessively packed. They also were letting people use the CCC as a lounge between meals, and while it wasn't as nice as a sightseer lounge, it was OK.



I took it the last two weeks from WAS-CLE, and the main problem I experienced was that there was a passenger who needed a good talking-to or to be kicked off the train. Two weeks ago this guy was shouting into his phone after midnight playing f**/marry/kill on the phone, making vulgar comments about pictures of girls. Then last week we had a guy who was a suicidal alcoholic and wanted everyone to know it, to a point where he was drunk trying to bum money off of me for mixers, that guy shouted into his phone after midnight as well. Both nights, the Coach Attendant of course sat in the lounge all night and did nothing, which seems to be the job description. 

I took Greyhound yesterday from CLE-CHI, operated by Baron's Bus, and there was no drama, everyone was quiet, had both seats to myself. Generally you can expect that in Ohio, every trip operated by Baron's Bus will be reliable.


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## cirdan (Mar 14, 2022)

Cal said:


> No, because you would still book it under two different trains (the CL and TE) and you would still have to get off in CHI so they can clean the train. It would just mean the consist moves on to the TE instead of turning around to be the CL, everything else, IIRC, stays the same.



what about increased exposure to knock on effects of late running?

or will there be a spare train in Chicago to cover for that?


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## jis (Mar 14, 2022)

cirdan said:


> what about increased exposure to knock on effects of late running?
> 
> or will there be a spare train in Chicago to cover for that?


Just like there is a spare train in Denver and Albuquerque to take care of late running?  As a matter of course there won't be. 

Just think of it as a 1987 mile each way single train operationally. The SWC is over 2200 miles.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Mar 14, 2022)

jis said:


> Just like there is a spare train in Denver and Albuquerque to take care of late running?  As a matter of course there won't be.
> 
> Just think of it as a 1987 mile each way single train operationally. The SWC is over 2500 miles.


This doesn't really change your point, but the SWC is less than 2,500 miles, as are the the EB and CZ.


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## jiml (Mar 14, 2022)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> This doesn't really change your point, but the SWC is less than 2,500 miles, as are the the EB and CZ.


He may be talking when combined with the Capitol as one through train.


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## jis (Mar 14, 2022)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> This doesn't really change your point, but the SWC is less than 2,500 miles, as are the the EB and CZ.


OK corrected in the original to say "over 2200 miles" instead of over "2500 miles".  for catching the error.


jiml said:


> He may be talking when combined with the Capitol as one through train.


No I gave an erroneous number in the original. Now corrected.


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## juanee (Mar 19, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> Double check restaurant times at the Union station hotel. I’ve stayed there many times. Restaurant is not always open when you expect it to be.


Is there a way to get to the Union Station Hotel by walking (with luggage) from the Gateway Amtrak station or do I get on the Metrolink? How did you do it? Thanks.


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## jis (Mar 19, 2022)

juanee said:


> Is there a way to get to the Union Station Hotel by walking (with luggage) from the Gateway Amtrak station or do I get on the Metrolink? How did you do it? Thanks.


It is about a half mile walk from the Amtrak Station to the Union Station Great Hall. The Union Station Metro stop is about half way, and a little less if walked through the Union Station shed. The last time I was there it was not possible to walk through the shed due to construction, which is most likely done by now. Anyhow that was the reason I walked it back then. Whether to walk or not would depend on the quantity and nature of luggage that needs to be moved.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 19, 2022)

jis said:


> It is about a half mile walk from the Amtrak Station to the Union Station Great Hall. The Union Station Metro stop is about half way, and a little less if walked through the Union Station shed. The last time I was there it was not possible to walk through the shed due to construction, which is most likely done by now. Anyhow that was the reason I walked it back then. Whether to walk or not would depend on the quantity and nature of luggage that needs to be moved.


I, too, walked it, with luggage in 2019. At that time the aquarium had not opened but the shed was mostly open. But I'm pretty sure either the Metro station was not open, or not easily accessible due to construction.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 20, 2022)

Walking is about the same amount of time as the metro because you will probably have to wait for one to arrive. It’s walkable with one roller suitcase and you are ok with walking.


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## jpakala (Mar 20, 2022)

We were at Union Station (STL) in September to see the acquarium, ride the ferris wheel, and use the amazing rope & wire loops & routes of the indoor aerial 'course'; BTW the hotel dining room is excellent, and don't miss the scores of RR passenger streamliner pictures, Pullman ads, etc. on the hallway walls of the original station building section of the hotel (we stayed in a newly added section but could roam everywhere). The Metrolink station there is immediately adjacent outside on the southeast, down stairs or an elevator. At the Gateway station the Metrolink is just to the east between the long-distance bus section of Gateway station and a local bus 'hub' (across the street east from which is the OYO Hotel Saint Louis Downtown City Center).


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## jpakala (Mar 20, 2022)

I think you can ride the Metrolink free between those 2 very close stations, but on a nice day walking between Gateway and historic Union Stations is very doable. Head west on Spruce then right on 16th then left on Clark to 18th which borders Union Station on the east side. Each segment is one block.


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## juanee (Mar 23, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> Walking is about the same amount of time as the metro because you will probably have to wait for one to arrive. It’s walkable with one roller suitcase and you are ok with walking.



I am pretty mobile, I place my garment back on top of my wheeled suitcase  and can easily move about even when it is heavy.

I took the time to look at a map in detail. Looks like there are sidewalks on those streets, seems accessible walking with a rolling suitcase.

Thank you to everyone who chimed in on my question…


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 23, 2022)

juanee said:


> I am pretty mobile, I place my garment back on top of my wheeled suitcase  and can easily move about even when it is heavy.
> 
> I took the time to look at a map in detail. Looks like there are sidewalks on those streets, seems accessible walking with a rolling suitcase.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who chimed in on my question…


As I recall, there are streetlights too. I always try to remember to look for those if I might be traveling to an area after dark


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## Palmland (Mar 25, 2022)

Trains’ Newswire reported today that with the run through equipment on the Capitol/Texas Eagle it will save one train set that will allow it to resume daily operation effective March 28. It also says passengers will not be allowed to remain onboard in Chicago and assumes the train will back into Chicago to add/suntract a St Louis coach and power.

I guess this reinforces the notion that lack of equipment due to lack of maintenance personnel really is the main driver in less than daily operation on some trains and reduced consist size. There was a time when this type of poor management would have had head roll- but maybe there aren’t enough heads left!
******
“CHICAGO — Shared trainsets, running through between Washington D.C. and San Antonio, Texas, via Chicago, are part of the plan when the _Texas Eagle_ and _Capitol Limited _resume daily operation on Monday, March 28. This will end a reduction to five-day-a-week departures that began in January.”


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## Amtrak25 (Mar 25, 2022)

Won't a coach and sleeper from this consist proceed onto LA on Sunset days ? That will be a long journey from DC to LAX. They are capitalizing on the rather inefficent equipment utilization of the Capitol Ltd with 3 train sets laying over for nearly 24 hours in DC, but both DC and LAX will be dealing with very dirty trains by the time they get there. Article mentioned the poor reliability of NS in Indiana of train 29 could easily mess this up. 

Does the the City of NOL do a same day turn in Chicago ?


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## dadonatrain (Mar 25, 2022)

I’ve been following this out of curiosity and I think I understand but maybe not. So…

if psgrs from Washington to San Antonio must get off while in Chicago, how does what Amtrak is doing amount to anything different for those passengers than if they had booked the two trains separately as before this change? I get how it uses eqpt differently so that helps Amtrak, I guess, but is it really anything different for the psgrs? I’m not criticizing it. I just want to understand how a traveler should interpret it.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 25, 2022)

And the consist is going remain the same Sad, 4 Car Superliner Orphan( 1 Sleeper,1CCC and 2 Coaches, 1 a Bag Coach) pulled by One P-42!

The Texas Eagle Sleeper is generaly Full @ High Bucket Fares ( the Crew has to share the Rooms with Revenue Passengers since there's no Transdorm) and Flex Meals are served in the CCC which in the Case of WAS -SAS will amount to 7 Meals!!!!

The Eagle is notorious for running out of Food and Drink even before it reaches San Antinio,( and Is funky and ratty as it isn't cleaned properly in Chicago or at all in San Antonio) and must turn for Chicago the next morning without being Re-Stocked!

Also, the Train will spend 2+ Hours in St Louis for Inspections,and Gateway Station isn't exactly Moynihan Train Hall or LAX!

Include me out for this Route, Southwest Airlines will get you to Nice Cities that have Good LD Trains!!


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## Rasputin (Mar 25, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Include me out for this Route, Southwest Airlines will get you to Nice Cities that have Good LD Trains!!



Very sad what has happened to the Texas Eagle and the Crescent. They both used to be such nice trains and I used to look forward to more trips on them. 

I will be going to Tucson next year. My plan is to fly to New Orleans and take the Sunset to Tucson and to avoid the Crescent and the Texas Eagle.


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## Cal (Mar 25, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> if psgrs from Washington to San Antonio must get off while in Chicago, how does what Amtrak is doing amount to anything different for those passengers than if they had booked the two trains separately as before this change? I get how it uses eqpt differently so that helps Amtrak, I guess, but is it really anything different for the psgrs? I’m not criticizing it. I just want to understand how a traveler should interpret it.


No major differences, but I'll list the ones I can think of.

-If the inbound train is late, the outbound train will most likely also be late. I don't think the turn will be particularly long. 

-Slightly modified schedule for the Texas Eagle (shown below). 

-Cars may be a bit dirtier as I'm unsure of how much they will be able to clean the consist since it won't have a huge layover in Chicago. Some CL passengers will be getting on a sleeper that originated in Los Angeles, over 60 hours prior.


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## dadonatrain (Mar 26, 2022)

Cal said:


> No major differences, but I'll list the ones I can think of.
> 
> -If the inbound train is late, the outbound train will most likely also be late. I don't think the turn will be particularly long.
> 
> ...


Thx. This helps.


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## Sidney (Mar 26, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> Thx. This helps.


I ll be on the Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle/Sunset in late August. I'll be starting in Martinsburg WV on Saturday and arriving in LA early Wednesday on the same train. Coach to Chicago. Sleeper to LA. One plus. With the 11:55 departure of the Eagle and the usually late arrival of the CL into Chicago I don't have to worry about making my connection.


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## Trogdor (Mar 26, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> if psgrs from Washington to San Antonio must get off while in Chicago, how does what Amtrak is doing amount to anything different for those passengers than if they had booked the two trains separately as before this change?



The trains are still booked separately. The passenger technically notices nothing except a different departure time from Chicago on the Eagle. What Amtrak does with the equipment is a behind-the-scenes action that is only getting discussion on here because of the level of attention people on this forum pay to stuff like that. “Ordinary” passengers have no reason to know or care where the equipment came from.


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## Rasputin (Mar 29, 2022)

Just amazing to consider that the Capitol Limited which connects some minor metropolitan areas is now down to one sleeping car while airline traffic is bursting at the seams. 

This is far from what I expected when Amtrak was created in 1971.

I have to wonder why I keep racking up points on my Amtrak credit card. I guess it is only so I can get to Chicago and travel west from there where apparently decent train travel sometimes still exists.


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## Trollopian (Mar 29, 2022)

Even without counting the endpoints (Washington DC and Chicago), there are two very _non_-minor metropolitan areas on the Capitol Limited route, Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Plus a whole host of smaller ones, such as Cumberland, Sandusky, Toledo (where there's a big exodus to Detroit), South Bend. You're right about one thing: it merits much better service. I've never been on one that wasn't well-filled.

Amtrak Capitol Limited route


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## neroden (Mar 29, 2022)

juanee said:


> I am pretty mobile, I place my garment back on top of my wheeled suitcase  and can easily move about even when it is heavy.
> 
> I took the time to look at a map in detail. Looks like there are sidewalks on those streets, seems accessible walking with a rolling suitcase.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who chimed in on my question…


I've walked it (St Louis Amtrak station to St Louis Union Station and back, with luggage). Sidewalks are somewhat broken up so it's a bit bumpy for a rolling suitcase but it's fine. (At the time I was there the Union Station Metrolink was closed for construction so I couldn't try that.)


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## Bonser (Mar 29, 2022)

I've noticed the CL westbound has all rooms listed as sold out through the end of June. At least it appears so with my spot checking. An earlier post said they were notified that the 3/27 CL sleeper car was cancelled so I was wondering what's going with the CL. The LSL had plenty of rooms available during the same period in my spot checks. Does anyone know anything about this or is the CL, in fact, just sold out?


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## frequentflyer (Mar 30, 2022)

So what is done at a mechanical stop? Is this the reason why the Sunset sits at TUS for an hour even when running late? What is mechanical doing during that hour?


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## JP1822 (Mar 30, 2022)

My reservations (plural) have been unaffected to date on the Capitol Limited. But I also chose to book the lowest sleeping car number, which is the sleeper next to the diner. Typically if Amtrak takes a sleeper car off they re-arrange those in the higher car number. If the Capitol's consist was programmed with TWO sleepers, Amtrak's been taking the second sleeper OUT of the system (be it a full Superliner Sleeper or Superliner Trans/Dorm Sleeper), now that there's a run-through operation going on between Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle. At least ONE Superliner Sleeper is still there in the consist. With that adjustment though, there are MANY days now that the Capitol Limited is SOLD OUT in sleeper class. Demand certainly exceed capacity. Amtrak doesn't seem to care. Even when going tri-weekly, the Capitol started out with one Superliner Sleeper, but then it got so bad that they did add either a full Superliner Sleeper or Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper to ease congestion even from misconnects. 

Right now though, eastbound there's only like one day between now and April 15th with a sleeper accommodation available, and just as bad as westbound. The Capitol Limited's demand, despite what Amtrak has said over the years, has ALWAYS warranted at least TWO Superliner sleepers AND Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper space being sold April through October. I've been onboard when Amtrak has even added a third sleeper for a couple of months. They save a train set in the run-through operation, but they've done nothing to increase capacity.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Mar 30, 2022)

I hope this is all documented when Amtrak goes to Congress and says the network is bleeding them dry. Some trains are sold out, others are priced out of the range of most people. The end result is the same ridership is being depressed. As the months go on it will be more obvious why this is. It was noted on the other board, just because Amtrak says it‘s “hiring”, doesn’t mean they are actively bringing new employees onboard with any sense of urgency.


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## Bonser (Mar 30, 2022)

JP1822 said:


> My reservations (plural) have been unaffected to date on the Capitol Limited. But I also chose to book the lowest sleeping car number, which is the sleeper next to the diner. Typically if Amtrak takes a sleeper car off they re-arrange those in the higher car number. If the Capitol's consist was programmed with TWO sleepers, Amtrak's been taking the second sleeper OUT of the system (be it a full Superliner Sleeper or Superliner Trans/Dorm Sleeper), now that there's a run-through operation going on between Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle. At least ONE Superliner Sleeper is still there in the consist. With that adjustment though, there are MANY days now that the Capitol Limited is SOLD OUT in sleeper class. Demand certainly exceed capacity. Amtrak doesn't seem to care. Even when going tri-weekly, the Capitol started out with one Superliner Sleeper, but then it got so bad that they did add either a full Superliner Sleeper or Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper to ease congestion even from misconnects.
> 
> Right now though, eastbound there's only like one day between now and April 15th with a sleeper accommodation available, and just as bad as westbound. The Capitol Limited's demand, despite what Amtrak has said over the years, has ALWAYS warranted at least TWO Superliner sleepers AND Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper space being sold April through October. I've been onboard when Amtrak has even added a third sleeper for a couple of months. They save a train set in the run-through operation, but they've done nothing to increase capacity.


I have car number 2900 on the CL westbound. How do I know if it's the first or second sleeper?


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## John Bredin (Mar 30, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> So what is done at a mechanical stop? Is this the reason why the Sunset sits at TUS for an hour even when running late? What is mechanical doing during that hour?


The Sunset Ltd. gets fueled at Tucson, and I believe watered too. You can see it on the Tucson station webcam.


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## jis (Mar 30, 2022)

John Bredin said:


> The Sunset Ltd. gets fueled at Tucson, and I believe watered too. You can see it on the Tucson station webcam.


And possibly 1500 mile mandatory mechanical inspection.


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## frequentflyer (Mar 30, 2022)

jis said:


> And possibly 1500 mile mandatory mechanical inspection.



I believe it does, so what is happening that we are not seeing on the cam? What is involved in the mandatory inspection?


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## frequentflyer (Mar 30, 2022)

With 21's 11:55am departure, what connection opportunities are there in CHI now? From Detroit, Milwaukee, LSL, CAP LTD and Cardinal?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 30, 2022)

At the moment, the Capitol Limited is running with only 1 sleeper


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Mar 31, 2022)

For Cardinal and LSL that would be an iffy connection as those trains can be 2 hours late or more. The CL maybe since you have a little over 3 hours.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 31, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> For Cardinal and LSL that would be an iffy connection as those trains can be 2 hours late or more. The CL maybe since you have a little over 3 hours.


The connection from the Capitol Limited will always work, because the Texas Eagle (21) will be using the equipment from the Capitol Limited. So if the Capitol arrives really late, the Texas Eagle will have a delayed departure..


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## OBS (Mar 31, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> The connection from the Capitol Limited will always work, because the Texas Eagle (21) will be using the equipment from the Capitol Limited. So if the Capitol arrives really late, the Texas Eagle will have a delayed departure..


Which I think will happen on a regular basis....


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 31, 2022)

OBS said:


> Which I think will happen on a regular basis....


Yep, Amtrak is using the SP playbook to "Run 'em Off" for these 2 Orphan Trains.


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## rtabern (Mar 31, 2022)

My wife and I are going to NYC and Western Maryland Scenic Railroad for our 10th Anniversary in mid-October. Out on #8 and 50 and back on #29 and #7 from Tomah, WI. 

We really like having our separate bedrooms OR roomettes... so no one gets the upper bunk. Just too old for that! LOL

Anyway, when we went to book a few weeks ago, the roomettes were $496 EACH... or almost $1000 for two roomettes. Just Cumberland, MD to Chicago

So, we opted for the Family Bedroom which was actually cheaper than one roomette... and were just going to make it work. Had room 15 in the 2901 car.

Got an email overnight from Amtrak that our reservation was modified... and we were getting two roomettes in the 2900 car, as our Family Bedroom is no more.

That actually worked out to what we wanted all along! But I guess if I had a family and we all wanted to be together, that would not be good. 

I was just surprised we didn't get a call or an explanation really --- just a ticket showing our reservation was now two roomettes.

From what I can gather, the Capitol Limited to Texas Eagle consist will now extend through the fall... and there will only be ONE sleeper. So perhaps the 2901 car has been pulled. And then my guess is the family bedroom on the 2900 car is going to be used by crew --- as on the Texas Eagle the crew gets the 4 roomettes and family bedroom on the lower level now.

But wow, this totally eliminates the family bedroom from ever being an option for folks on the Capitol now. Not good.


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## TC_NYC (Mar 31, 2022)

Looks like you're correct, can't seem to book a family bedroom on the Capitol Limited. That's a shame.


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## joelkfla (Mar 31, 2022)

rtabern said:


> From what I can gather, the Capitol Limited to Texas Eagle consist will now extend through the fall... and there will only be ONE sleeper. So perhaps the 2901 car has been pulled. And then my guess is the family bedroom on the 2900 car is going to be used by crew --- as on the Texas Eagle the crew gets the 4 roomettes and family bedroom on the lower level now.


I wonder ... 
Do they draw lots for the "child" berths, or do the 2 shortest members of whichever sex get stuck in them?


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## John Bredin (Mar 31, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Yep, Amtrak is using the SP playbook to "Run 'em Off" for these 2 Orphan Trains.


Wait, Amtrak comes up with a plan to restore the Capitol Ltd. and Texas Eagle to daily service a couple of months ahead of a bunch of other long-distance trains and, because the plan is admittedly somewhat of a kluge, it's a sign Amtrak is sabotaging these two trains?!


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 31, 2022)

So they trying to skip Chicago maintenance by calling this a through train. I be very surprised if the FRA allows this to happen. If your kicking passenger out in Chicago and cleaning and stocking the trainset before boarding passenger again, it’s not a thur train. Amtrak is doing a end run around the FRA inspection by calling it a through train. A enroute inspection is not the same as terminal inspection, which is not the same level of care as a home vs away terminal inspection.

Amtrak going to get its hand slapped for this. The lawyers are going to have a field day if this train derails.


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## jiml (Mar 31, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> So they trying to skip Chicago maintenance by calling this a thur train. I be very surprised if the FRA allows this to happen. If your kicking passenger out in Chicago and cleaning and stocking the trainset before boarding passenger again, it’s not a thur train. Amtrak is doing a end run around the FRA inspection by calling it a thur train. A enroute inspection is not the same as terminal inspection, which is not the same level of care as a home vs away terminal inspection.
> 
> Amtrak going to get its hand slapped for this. The lawyers are going to have a field day if this train derails.


This doesn't make sense. First, they've done it before with no apparent consequences. Secondly, passengers are "kicked out" (to use your term) at various points on many routes and their space - whether seat or room - is turned over without terminal cleaning. As for restocking supplies, why does it matter? They could just as easily restock anywhere on the route if commissary facilities existed without defining two trains. This train stops in Chicago where they have the ability to resupply it. It seems pretty straightforward.


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## Cal (Mar 31, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> So they trying to skip Chicago maintenance by calling this a thur train. I be very surprised if the FRA allows this to happen. If your kicking passenger out in Chicago and cleaning and stocking the trainset before boarding passenger again, it’s not a thur train. Amtrak is doing a end run around the FRA inspection by calling it a thur train. A enroute inspection is not the same as terminal inspection, which is not the same level of care as a home vs away terminal inspection.
> 
> Amtrak going to get its hand slapped for this. The lawyers are going to have a field day if this train derails.


When did Amtrak ever call it a through train?? Isn’t the only thing that’s “through” the equipment?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 31, 2022)

Cal said:


> When did Amtrak ever call it a through train?? Isn’t the only thing that’s “through” the equipment?


I was wondering the same thing. I suspect the only people calling it a through train are rail fans.


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## frequentflyer (Mar 31, 2022)

22 just went by Tower 55 at 13:51 with three cars. Three cars? I bet its not going to WAS with three cars..................................I hope.


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## chrsjrcj (Mar 31, 2022)

Cal said:


> When did Amtrak ever call it a through train?? Isn’t the only thing that’s “through” the equipment?


 
With buses we would call this an interline.


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## MikefromCrete (Mar 31, 2022)

It's not advertised as a through train. The only people who know the cars run through Chicago are Amtrak employees and railfans.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 31, 2022)

Amtrak is the one try to skip maintenance work on a trainset. Substitute a enroute inspection instead of a terminal inspection on this equipment. The list of things to inspect and what need to be fixed is dependent on the location, and type of inspection. A wheel tread defect will need to be address at a home terminal prior to the equipment go back out. It has different standards if your doing a end of run inspection. Or if it’s discovery during a enroute inspection.


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## Sidney (Mar 31, 2022)

MikefromCrete said:


> It's not advertised as a through train. The only people who know the cars run through Chicago are Amtrak employees and railfans.


I noticed the CL arrived in Chicago at 12:05PM earlier this week. The TE leaves ten minutes earlier. Wonder if people transfering to the TE just stayed in their seats


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Apr 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> The connection from the Capitol Limited will always work, because the Texas Eagle (21) will be using the equipment from the Capitol Limited. So if the Capitol arrives really late, the Texas Eagle will have a delayed departure..


That's true I had forgotten that they are running the equipment through.


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## penguinflies (Apr 3, 2022)

Couple of questions for the audience:

With the run through is there no longer a 322/321? I tried to look to book and can only book stl-chi on 22 or 21.

Has anyone taken the service through stl? Do they allow customer access to terminal now while it remains in station?


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## RebelRider (Apr 3, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> I believe it does, so what is happening that we are not seeing on the cam? What is involved in the mandatory inspection?



The requirements for an exterior and interior calendar day inspection are spelled out in 49 CFR 238 Subpart D.

Equipment must be inspected once per calendar day or every 1,500 miles. A calendar day means any time from 0000-2359. So a car inspected at 0001 on Monday doesn’t need another inspection until 2359 on Tuesday. The same applies to locomotive calendar day inspections.

There is an exception for late trains. If a train misses its scheduled calendar day inspection, the passenger cars may continue in service to the next location the inspection was scheduled to be performed. Locomotives do not have this exception and arrangements will be made to inspect locomotives prior to their expiration at 2359. Engineers can do the inspection line of road without a Qualified Mechanical Person.


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## F900ElCapitan (Apr 3, 2022)

And it starts…

From Amtrak Alerts,

Capitol Limited Train 29 which departed Washington (WAS) on 4/2 is currently operating approximately 3 hours late due to freight train interference west of South Bend (SOB).

Texas Eagle Train 21 which is due to depart Chicago (CHI) on 4/3 will be delayed departing due to the late arrival of inbound equipment. Updates to come.


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## Cal (Apr 3, 2022)

F900ElCapitan said:


> And it starts…
> 
> From Amtrak Alerts,
> 
> ...


It just left it seems, 90 minutes late.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Apr 3, 2022)

Does anyone know how yesterday's 21 departed Chicago on time? 29 was multiple hours late and ended up arriving after 21 departed.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 3, 2022)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Does anyone know how yesterday's 21 departed Chicago on time? 29 was multiple hours late and ended up arriving after 21 departed.


 Stepping back from the single trainset for both trains scheme, I guess they had to come up with another trainset!


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## tim49424 (Apr 4, 2022)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Does anyone know how yesterday's 21 departed Chicago on time? 29 was multiple hours late and ended up arriving after 21 departed.



This happened today as well. I’m currently on 21 and 29 has yet to arrive in Chicago. Obviously a different trainset is being used for the Eagle.


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## jis (Apr 4, 2022)

It requires just one more consist to keep the two separate. Given that it is a four car consist, probably they can scrounge one together on the first misconnect day. And if the following day is a misconnect too then the previous days arriving consist can be used. This can continue until the borrowed cars are returned to the Chicago protect pool. So not uch is surprising there.


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## joelkfla (Apr 4, 2022)

jis said:


> It requires just one more consist to keep the two separate. Given that it is a four car consist, probably they can scrounge one together on the first misconnect day. And if the following day is a misconnect too then the previous days arriving consist can be used. This can continue until the borrowed cars are returned to the Chicago protect pool. So not uch is surprising there.


Not surprising that it's doable, but perhaps surprising that Amtrak is doing it.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 4, 2022)

Well, I guess that means that stuff about never having to worry about missing a connection to the Texas Eagle if you're riding the Capitol Limited isn't true.


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## jis (Apr 4, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Well, I guess that means that stuff about never having to worry about missing a connection to the Texas Eagle if you're riding the Capitol Limited isn't true.


Sometimes too much inside knowledge but not full inside knowledge can be a dangerous thing


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## Rover (Apr 4, 2022)

This is a Dangerous thread.


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## Sidney (Apr 4, 2022)

Cal said:


> It just left it seems, 90 minutes late.


I


Rover said:


> This is a Dangerous thread.


Todays 29 arrived in Chicago at 12:40. 21 left on time at 11:55. I may have to rethink my same day 29 21 connection in August. 29 is usually an hour or more late. Lately its been up to four hours late. Would having 29 leave two hours earlier from DC help...or that cannot be done?


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## Rasputin (Apr 4, 2022)

What is happening with these missed connections? Are passengers from 29 being bused to 21 or are they just being accommodated and rebooked for the next train?


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## Amtrak25 (Apr 4, 2022)

Sounds like every other Chicago-run-thru they have tried since the early 1970's - works on paper, not in reality.


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## jpakala (Apr 5, 2022)

penguinflies said:


> Couple of questions for the audience:
> 
> With the run through is there no longer a 322/321? I tried to look to book and can only book stl-chi on 22 or 21.
> 
> Has anyone taken the service through stl? Do they allow customer access to terminal now while it remains in station?


We boarded at Alton on 3/6/22 but didn't get off at STL, though I thought there was mention on AU re going into the station. I'd ask, but be sure can return easily regardless.


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## penguinflies (Apr 5, 2022)

jpakala said:


> We boarded at Alton on 3/6/22 but didn't get off at STL, though I thought there was mention on AU re going into the station. I'd ask, but be sure can return easily regardless.


With the new schedule as of the 28th, the dwell time is different for the St. Louis stop.


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## JoeZeppyPA (Apr 5, 2022)

Palmland said:


> I certainly hope they do this. With the 11:55 Chicago departure through passengers would not need to detrain to get lunch.
> 
> It’s interesting that even with the 3 hours in Chicago, the time WAS-STL is less than 26 hours. Amtrak’s National Ltd took about 24.
> 
> Also, I don’t know if the Capitol is running with 2 sleepers, but if it is why not have the second one continue to LA to save switching and servicing at Chicago of the CHI-LAX sleeper.


Lol - laying over in Chicago for lunch is the high point of the trip fo me


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## joelkfla (Apr 8, 2022)

Guess they ran out spares:


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## Amtrak25 (Apr 8, 2022)

29 is 3 hours late into Chicago. It was 1 hour late into Cleveland.


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## Sidney (Apr 8, 2022)

29 is always late into Chicago anywhere from an hour to several hours. I noticed 21 sometimes wait for 29,other times they don't. I have an August reservation on 29 to 21. Seeing they use the same trainset I figure I wouldn't have to worry missing my connection. I figured wrong.


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## TinCan782 (Apr 8, 2022)

"Today’s sad Texas Eagle is a sleeping car, diner-lounge car, and a couple of coaches pulled by a single locomotive. Hardly a financially successful or passenger-friendly consist for an inter-regional train."
"Stephen Gardner’s ongoing scandal commonly known as the Texas Eagle"
By J. Bruce Richardson, Corridor Rail Development Corporation; April 8, 2022








U.S., Amtrak: Stephen Gardner’s ongoing scandal commonly known as the Texas Eagle


By J. Bruce Richardson, Corridor Rail Development Corporation; April 8, 2022 How much abuse should one named, inter-regional train have to suffer? The Texas Eagle under the pandemic stewardship of …




corridorrail.com


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## tim49424 (Apr 8, 2022)

TinCan782 said:


> "Today’s sad Texas Eagle is a sleeping car, diner-lounge car, and a couple of coaches pulled by a single locomotive. Hardly a financially successful or passenger-friendly consist for an inter-regional train."
> By J. Bruce Richardson, Corridor Rail Development Corporation; April 8, 2022
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I hope it doesn’t have a leaky air conditioning compressor that leaks all of the Freon and renders the AC useless like we had on Tuesday. The temperature in Fort Worth was 80 degrees when the AC finally bit the dust. It got so bad in the sleeper that our attendant gabe us permission to sit in the cafe car for as long as we liked. He did finally resolve the problem about 11 PM and went to bed. Sometime after that, someone, likely another passenger actually did the extremely stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of in my 15 years of riding hundreds of trains. He or she opened the vestibule door to the outside and jammed the door open with the yellow step stool. The conductors and attendant were livid and for obviously good reason when they saw it in the morning. Not only was it foolishly dangerous, the floor in the hall from the stairs to room H was covered with a thick layer of pollen. I hope I never see a sight like that again! I don’t believe they figured out who did and although I have my guess, I didn’t want to make wild accusations with no substantial proof. Also, the timing of the AC failure was such that if it were to have failed on Tuesday rather than Wednesday the temperature at the DFW International Airport was a record high 94 degrees for April 5. Wednesday it was “only“ 80. Probably really no difference, hot is hot with no AC on a train.


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## daybeers (Apr 11, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Guess they ran out spares:



Of course they did; this plan is idiotic.


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## frequentflyer (Apr 18, 2022)

A post on TrainsOrders.com states the shared consist thing ends May 2. FYI.


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## PaTrainFan (Apr 18, 2022)

So, I this indicates that there are more carriages (I prefer the European word, ha) back in service and maybe this means more sane fares. Not opimistic this will result in the return of the SSL on the CL and TE, however but first things first, I suppose.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 18, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> So, I this indicates that there are more carriages (I prefer the European word, ha) back in service and maybe this means more sane fares. Not opimistic this will result in the return of the SSL on the CL and TE, however but first things first, I suppose.


My sources tell me that the SSL and Transdorm will NOT return to the Texas Eagle and so it will continue to be a 4 Car Orphan LD Train with High Bucket Charges for Sleepers since the Crew also occupies the downstairs rooms, and that Flex Meals will continue to be served to Sleeping Car Passengers in the CCC.

Unsure about the Cap????


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## jis (Apr 18, 2022)

AFAICT until the decide to bring some SSLs out of mothball and/or fix a few damaged SSLs, no other trains will get an SSL.

My suspicion is that the Cap will get additional Sleeper/Transdorm restored later in the year. It will continue with CCC since afterall the CCC was invented for it (among others)


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 18, 2022)

jis said:


> AFAICT until the decide to bring some SSLs out of mothball and/or fix a few damaged SSLs, no other trains will get an SSL.
> 
> My suspicion is that the Cap will get additional Sleeper/Transdorm restored later in the year. It will continue with CCC since afterall the CCC was invented for it (among others)


Any inside word on the return of Traditional Dinning in the CCC???


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## jis (Apr 18, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Any inside word on the return of Traditional Dinning in the CCC???


I don't have much of any insider contact anymore. The days of getting info from Brian and others are long gone.


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## Sidney (Apr 18, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> My sources tell me that the SSL and Transdorm will NOT return to the Texas Eagle and so it will continue to be a 4 Car Orphan LD Train with High Bucket Charges for Sleepers since the Crew also occupies the downstairs rooms, and that Flex Meals will continue to be served to Sleeping Car Passengers in the CCC.
> 
> Unsure about the Cap????


It just doesn't make any sense why a trip of a 32 hour duration does not have a sightseer car...and traditional dining. Amtrak has said the SSL has been retired. Why? No excuse whatsoever no matter stuff Amtrak higher ups say.


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## jis (Apr 19, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts discussing the use of SSLs as axle count cars on Midwest trains and CONO have been moved to a new thread:






SSLs used as axle count cars


It just doesn't make any sense why a trip of a 32 hour duration does not have a sightseer car...and traditional dining. Amtrak has said the SSL has been retired. Why? No excuse whatsoever no matter stuff Amtrak higher ups say. It's also a Lie when they are running Sightseer Cars as Axle Count...




www.amtraktrains.com


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