# AGR Point Value



## Anderson (Nov 23, 2010)

Ok...I've decided I probably need a MasterCard to accompany my Visa(s). This is not a decision I've taken lightly (I'm _very_ card-averse), but recently, for the first time in my life I ran into a place that took cards...MasterCard only, however, and not Visa. That said...roughly what does one AGR point translate into in dollar terms if used efficiently? I'm asking because the rule with my current card is basically one point equals one cent. 'course, I also know that some definitions are a bit flexible (for example, NPN-WBG gets redeemed just the same as NPN-BOS, from what I can tell). Yes, I know I'm redeeming for rail travel...but there's an effective tradeoff value that can at least be ballparked.

Also...something from within the Northeast Region going south (say, WAS-DLD...a variation on one of my more frequent runs) would count as one zone, right?

Edit: A second question, to bundle: When do rail points reset? And though I assume that trips paid for in points don't generate reward points, do they generate rail points?


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## WMJ_NJ (Nov 23, 2010)

I tend to average somewhere in the 4 to 5 percent range. Remember Amtrak uses Yield Management in setting fares so the later you book the higher the fare and the more you get for your points. For example if I booked my Feb FL trip today it would cost $2,026 for two people in a bedroom or 40,000 points. That is a 5% return. But I booked it in April when the fare was considerably lower. I don't recall the amount but lets say it was $1600 or a 4% return. On the other hand I could book a one way trip from Washington DC to Newark NJ for $49 (2 week advance purchase) or use 3,000 points. That is only a 1.6% return.

Yes you could go from Boston to Miami and it would only count as one zone. You can always be creative in ways to maximize your points. A few years ago I wanted to book a trip from Flagstaff to Newark but didn't have enough points for a 3 zone bedroom so I booked a 2 zone bedroom from Albuquerque to NJ and paid like $35 for a coach ticket from Flagstaff to Albuquerque where I switched to the sleeper.

Not sure what you mean about points resetting. If you mean expire I believe the period is 3 years if you don't do any travel or don't make any purchases on your MC.

Bill J


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## Anderson (Nov 23, 2010)

I meant the "rail points" they use to determine select status, which they don't do the best job of laying out the details of.


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2010)

I myself value points based on if I bought them. The cost to buy points is 2.75 cents per point. I try not to redeem for less than that. If it is less, I will pay for the ticket. I usually try to get a value of 4-5 cents per point!

Because the "cost" in points is the same whether the "fare" is low bucket or high bucket, I have redeemed for the LAST room on the train (of course high bucket) and received a value of over 12 cents per point!


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2010)

"Rail Points" (which are ONLY used for determining status) reset on January 1 of every year. But as said, your AGR points do not expire provided that you take a trip on Amtrak at least once every 3 years!

And that qualifing trip could be a one way $3 fare! Or something like PVD to BOS and take MBTA home, PVD to KIN and take RIPTA home, LAX to FUL and take Metrolink back, WAS to ALX and take Metro back, etc...!


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## AlanB (Nov 23, 2010)

To answer the other questions, trips paid for with points generate a zero dollar ticket. Since both rail points and reward points are based upon the dollar value of the ticket, 2 X 0 = 0. So alas, no points of any kind.

And yes, WAS-DLD or even NPN-DLD would be a 1 zone redemption.


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## frugalist (Nov 23, 2010)

This question of point value comes up fairly often on this board. After listening to the various points of view, I've come to consider the following valuation: the maximum value one can put on his AGR points is the cost he would pay to purchase them outright, or to have them transferred from another account.

So, assuming you haven't purchased your annual limit, you could buy up to 10,000 points for 2.75 cents per point. Under the current promotion where you get a 30% bonus, $275 would get you 13,000 points, or 2.12 cents per point.

If you have the Chase Sapphire Preferred credit card, you can buy up to 5,000 Ultimate Rewards points per month for 2.5 cents per point, then immediately transfer those points to your AGR account.

If you have a friend with a bunch of points in his AGR account that he won't need for a while, maybe you can entice him to transfer some of those points to your AGR account. The cost for such a transfer is 1.00 cents per point.

So, I would say at least your first 10,000 points per year couldn't be valued at more than 2.75 cents per point. Then, if none of the other options for obtaining points is available to you, feel free to value your other points based on the cost of your trip.

But there's a catch here too. My wife and I are planning a trip next summer, from Florida to Vancouver, BC and back. Up and down the east and west coasts, criss-crossing the country, and hugging the US/Canadian border. 100,000 points round-trip. If we were to price this trip out, it would come to at least $6,000, probably more. Can we assign a point value of 6 cents per point for this trip? I don't think so. The reason being, there's no way we could justify paying $6,000 for this trip. The only reason we're taking it is because it's free! If we had to pay for a 2-week, cross-country trip, I suppose we'd be willing to pay maybe $2000. Actually, we'd probably just fly to Vancouver. So, isn't it more reasonable to estimate the value of a point based on what you'd be willing to pay for the trip, not what the current ticket price is?

Not an easy answer to what seems like an easy question.


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## Bigval109 (Nov 23, 2010)

I have yet to figure out how you determine the point value of my reward. Perhaps someone could tell me how to do the math :blush: . $2400 ticket for 30,000 points. It looks real good to me.


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## frugalist (Nov 23, 2010)

Bigval109 said:


> I have yet to figure out how you determine the point value of my reward. Perhaps someone could tell me how to do the math :blush: . $2400 ticket for 30,000 points. It looks real good to me.


It IS a good deal. No doubt about it. Many would say the point value of the award is $2400 divided by 30,000 points or 8.00 cents per point. But as you could probably guess from my post right above yours, I would disagree. First, ask yourself: if you were not getting this trip as a free award, how much, if anything would you pay for it? Would you pay $2400 cash for this trip? If so, then the points are legitimately worth 8.00 cents each. Maybe you'd only pay $900 for it if you had to pay cash. In that case, your points are really only worth 3.00 cents each ($900 divided by 30,000). It's my opinion that the points are worth the value YOU place on the trip, not on the value Amtrak places on them. If you wouldn't pay $2400 cash for your trip, you can't value the points as being worth $2400 to you.


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## the_traveler (Nov 23, 2010)

frugalist said:


> It's my opinion that the points are worth the value YOU place on the trip, not on the value Amtrak places on them. If you wouldn't pay $2400 cash for your trip, you can't value the points as being worth $2400 to you.


While I understand your point, using an example of a flight to Europe, I could go First Class for $10,000 or I could go coach for $500. So should I value my First Class award as being worth $500, because there is no way I would have paid $10,000 for such a trip!


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 23, 2010)

To me the Points have more than monetary value. Take the Kansas City-Columbus "Loophole" for example. If it wasn't for Points, I would not have taken that trip or even considered taking it. And that turned out to be so far the best Amtrak journey I have experienced.


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## frugalist (Nov 23, 2010)

the_traveler said:


> frugalist said:
> 
> 
> > It's my opinion that the points are worth the value YOU place on the trip, not on the value Amtrak places on them. If you wouldn't pay $2400 cash for your trip, you can't value the points as being worth $2400 to you.
> ...


Stating the obvious, there is a qualitative difference between coach and first class on airline, just as there is a difference between coach, a roomette and a bedroom on an Amtrak train. This naturally results in us valuing the different classes of service differently. How much would I have paid for that first class trip to Europe is certainly a subjective matter depending on many variables. So, if I can easily say I would not pay $10,000 for the trip, I can just as easily say I would pay something more than $500 (the cost of going in coach). Where my answer falls between $500 and $10,000 depends on the values I place on the variables determining my perception of value. And these values will be different for each person.

More to your specific example, if you would only pay $500 cash for your flight to Europe then you would be in coach. It would then be more appropriate to calculate the value of the points required for a coach reward (based on $500) rather than the points required for a first class award (based on $500).


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## frugalist (Nov 23, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> To me the Points have more than monetary value. Take the Kansas City-Columbus "Loophole" for example. If it wasn't for Points, I would not have taken that trip or even considered taking it. And that turned out to be so far the best Amtrak journey I have experienced.


I absolutely agree with you. In addition to what you just pointed out, what about the benefit of not having to deal with all of the [insert noun of your choice] involved with flying these days?! To me, you can't put a value on that.

That said, however, the OP did specifically ask for our input on "what does one AGR point translate into in dollar terms?"


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## Anderson (Nov 25, 2010)

frugalist said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > To me the Points have more than monetary value. Take the Kansas City-Columbus "Loophole" for example. If it wasn't for Points, I would not have taken that trip or even considered taking it. And that turned out to be so far the best Amtrak journey I have experienced.
> ...


This is very true, and I agree wholeheartedly. That said, already being enrolled in AGR, I am weighing a very specific ratio: Namely, the value of spending on a de facto "cash back" card versus spending on an AGR card for an identical trip. In other words, if I transfer $25,000 in spending over several years from one to the other (not impossible to see happening), is it better to get $250 back that gets spent on rail travel or 25,000 AGR points being spent on rail travel? It's really a focused question.


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## frugalist (Nov 25, 2010)

Anderson said:


> frugalist said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


To answer that question, I would look at specific trips, and compare how much I would need to spend on the two cards to earn those trips for free. I went to the Amtrak site and plugged in three different trips.

First: One person, WAS-BOS in coach on May 12 on the NE Regional. Cost = $70.00. AGR award = 2,850 points.

To earn $70.00 on your cash back card, you need to spend $7,000.

To earn 2,850 points on your AGR Mastercard, you need to spend $2,850.

Need I say which I would choose? 

Second: Two people, MIA-BOS in a bedroom on the Silver Meteor and Business Class on the NE Regional on May 12. Cost = $1099.00. AGR award = 19,000 points.

To earn $1099.00 on your cash back card, you need to spend $109,900.

To earn 19,000 points on your AGR Mastercard, you need to spend $19,000.

Third (a trip you mentioned in your OP): WAS-DLD (2 people on May 12)

In coach: Cost = $202.00 ($20,200 spend). AGR award = 10,450 points ($10,450 spend).

In a roomette: Cost = $397.00. AGR award = 13,500 points.

In a bedroom: Cost = $840.00. AGR award = 19,000 points.

Keep in mind that even though you get a 5% point rebate on AGR awards when you carry the AGR Mastercard, you still need the full award points in your account balance before you can book the award trip. The rebate will be credited back to your account immediately upon booking the award.

If your goal is to acquire free train travel, it seems like a straightforward decision when you look at it this way.


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