# #5 (11) Held up by flooding in Colorado



## pdxjim

My cousin who is on CZ #5 (11) is sitting in his roomette at the Denver station. The conductor has told the passengers they can't go west and they can't go over the Wyoming detour. No more details yet.

I would have been on the train, but I needed to fly home yesterday.

Jim


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## Notelvis

I heard on the radio about evacuations in Boulder due to flooding during my drive to work this morning and figured that this meant bad news for the California Zephyr.

I did an eastbound trip on #6 a couple of years ago during a period of flooding and rockslides and wound up being on the only train to get through without being hours late or annulled for a week on either side of the day I was riding.


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## greatcats

The status report indicates the train is on the move and left Denver over 2 hours late.


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## greatcats

Excuse me. I punched up the wrong day. It does show as a service disruption.


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## jis

5(11) and 6(11) are both showing Service Disruption now.


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## pdxjim

Train 5(11) still at the Denver station. They served breakfast and lunch in the diner and told passengers they are prepared to serve dinner as well. Some passengers bailed and headed for the airport. No specific alternate travel plans have been announced.


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## jis

Good thing they did not get stuck 5 miles out of Denver on the Front Range.


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## Notelvis

With Boulder experiencing flooding, I'm guessing that some issue on the UP line north of Denver is why they are not detouring through Wyoming.


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## the_traveler

I heard that some rooms many parts of Boulder were flooded and most likely other areas of the Front Range. I myself would rather have breakfast, lunch and maybe dinner on the CZ while sitting at the Denver station then sitting stuck in flood waters somewhere in the mountains trying to keep my feet dry!


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## Bob Dylan

Posts on trainorders say that there is a derailment and washouts in the Mountains above Denver and no-one seems to know where #6 is Waiting? Also no-one is sure if the Interstate through the Mountains is Open so a Bus Bridge could be used between #5 and #6??? If I was on #5 Id check into taking the AMBus and connecting with #3 to LAX if Rooms are avaialble! I did notice that todays #5 wass Sent out of CHI On Time and #6 is also Running, wonder if the Re-Route through Wyoming will open up before the Mountain Route through Colorado? It would be something if 4 LD Trains were all Stranded on this Route close to Denver!!

Also there is the Question of Crew Hours and the T&E Crews going Dead on the Law, wonder if Denver has enough Crew members to man 4 LD Trains even if a Bus Bridge is established???


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## The Davy Crockett

Desperate times call for desperate measures. 

If your cousin likes a drink or two while chilling in times like these, and the train is going to be there a while longer, there is a small liquor store not far from the temp. station. You head across Wewatta St., go past the station on 21st. St., then make a right at the next street, where 21st ends, on Delgany Street, go one block, turn left onto W 29th Ave., and it is down about another block on the right hand side - I'm remembering it on a far right corner. Sorry, don't remember the name.

Just tell your cousin to *make sure* 5 isn't going to pull out of the station. I'd check with one of the conductors before heading off.


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## the_traveler

Operating crews (engineers and conductors) have a set hour limit, but OBS staff do not. They stay with and work the train from the start of the run to the end of the run - including any delays or bus-titution s!


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## Swadian Hardcore

The foothills of the Front Range get really flat. It's easy for the area to be flooded. They can't take the Wyoming detour because the boulder flooding could block off the route north. 5(11) may have to wait indefinately. A bustition won't work either.


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## Phil L.

The Zephyr was in Cheyenne around 6pm this evening.


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## Swadian Hardcore

There's nothing at all on Status Maps. All of the CZ trains are showing disruptions with no information. 5 (12) disappeared around GBB and 6 (12) disappeared around TRU. I didn't heard the 6 (12) passing through this evening, so it might have been halted.


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## chakk

As Guest_Phil_L reports, 6(11) has been rerouted from Salt Lake City on the original UP route through Wyoming and its passengers bound for Denver were bussed from Cheyenne.


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## jis

There is a report on TO this morning quoting Amtrak as source, that 6(11) was routed via Wyoming to Cheyenne where it will turn to become 5(11) and head west. Train 5(11) will be turned in Denver to become 6(11) and head east back to Chicago. Passengers bussed between Denver and Cheyenne.


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## PRR 60

jis said:


> There is a report on TO this morning quoting Amtrak as source, that 6(11) was routed via Wyoming to Cheyenne where it will turn to become 5(11) and head west. Train 5(11) will be turned in Denver to become 6(11) and head east back to Chicago. Passengers bussed between Denver and Cheyenne.


Both 5(11) and 6(11) are back on the status maps in Salt Lake and Lincoln respectively. It appears the reroute for the 9/11 departures happened last night. I guess they used the old UP Cheyenne station for the transfer.


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## jis

It looks like 5(12) and 6(12) have indeed not reappeared in the Status Map yet, and show up as "Service Disruption" on Amtrak Status. That of course never necessarily means that they are not running. And as usual in the most informative amtrak.com there is no mention of any of this.


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## Nathanael

So there's two separate points where the track is disrupted: somewhere west of Denver on the usual Moffat Tunnel route, and somewhere between Denver and Cheyenne on that UP route. (And presumably also Boulder on the BNSF route.)

Reminds me of the Midwest flooding some years back which took out all five parallel lines from Chicago to Minneapolis.


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## jis

Nathanael said:


> So there's two separate points where the track is disrupted: somewhere west of Denver on the usual Moffat Tunnel route, and somewhere between Denver and Cheyenne on that UP route. (And presumably also Boulder on the BNSF route.)
> 
> Reminds me of the Midwest flooding some years back which took out all five parallel lines from Chicago to Minneapolis.


According to reports there are multiple places between Denver and Winter Park where the track is disrupted by landslides and washouts.

It is also reported that there is major flooding around Greeley where the UP line crosses the South Platte River which is fed by the stuff coming down Boulder Canyon.


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## fulham

With both lines out of Denver blocked, will they be using the Overland Route across NE directly into Wyoming and bus passengers to and from Denver out of Cheyenne?

The train would run on its normal route to Omaha and then switch over to the UP.

Any thoughts on this or will the continue to turn the trains in Denver and Cheyenne respectively until they can open the line from Denver north?


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## David

I am a first time Amtrak traveler and am really confused reading your excellent posts about bus to/from Denver/Cheyenne . I am scheduled to leave Emeryville on Sunday for Chicago, Train 6. If the tracks aren't clear by then, what route might I be taking? I have called Amtrak and they are just useless as far as info goes. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated by this novice. Thx



> With both lines out of Denver blocked, will they be using the Overland Route across NE directly into Wyoming and bus passengers to and from Denver out of Cheyenne?
> 
> The train would run on its normal route to Omaha and then switch over to the UP.
> 
> Any thoughts on this or will the continue to turn the trains in Denver and Cheyenne respectively until they can open the line from Denver north?


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## eblkheart

You'll will go through Wyoming and probably into Nebraska via the UP linesm depending on. Lines in Utah and Wyoming are fine as far as I know, or at least what I am hearing here in Denver. The Colorado front range right now is a mess, to say the least. You're trip will run late, but you'll make it fine


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## David

Thank you so much. I am hoping that means no bus bridge. I don't need to go to Denver.


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## maxiwess

I am a first time traveler on Amtrak also. We are scheduled to leave Lincoln at 12:00 AM Sunday to travel to Reno. How will they route us? Any ideas?


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## eblkheart

RIght now I they can't do a bus bridge unless it goes through another way out in the rural areas. Parts of HWY 85 is closed to commercial traffic as well. The interstate is shutdown both ways because of flooding and flooding over took parts of the interstate. Here's the current closings of the interstate closings for the N/S I-25:

*[SIZE=10pt]• I-25 southbound from Wyoming border to SH 402
• I-25 northbound from State Highway (SH) 7 to SH 14
• I-25 northbound /southbound ramps to State Highway 119[/SIZE]*

This is all what I can tell you on the conditions around here.

Just saw this from Train Magazine, which backs up what I just said:



> Eastbound and westbound sections of *Amtrak*’s _California Zephyr_ continue to be diverted around much of the deluged area between Salt Lake City and Cheyenne, using *Union Pacific*’s _Overland Route_. Observers say a bus bridge between Cheyenne and Denver for _Zephyr_ passengers remains doubtful because Interstate 25, which connects the cities, has also been shuttered by flood waters.


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## Nathanael

Apparently, according to something I found somewhere, the "Brush Line" (BNSF from Denver eastward) has flooding as well. I would love to know what Amtrak is actually doing. Running east from Cheyenne on UP to Omaha, perhaps?


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## Kay

I am traveling out of Denver to Chicago tonight and was told by Amtrak that there was not a rerouting through Cheyenne that will occur for eastboud travelers (only westbound travelers affected). Is that because Train 5 that was halted here and could not go any further west and is being turned around and departing for Chicago from Denver? Getting any good answers from Amtrak website has proved to be impossible and travelers are not being kept up to date. Thanks much.


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## eblkheart

Thanks for the update. Makes me wonder if they are stopping at Denver for now. It's a mess out here.


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## getbent

The roads are all closed from Colorado to Cheyenne. There is flooding on I-25, preventing a bus from even getting to Cheyenne.

http://www.reporterherald.com/news/colorado/ci_24087174/interstate-25-is-closed-loveland-and-fort-collins

I'll second the statement- it's a mess out here!


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## Kay

I just got off the train from Amtrak and was told that the train leaving out of Denver tonight to Chicago will not be impacted by the flooding. It is the travelers that need to get to Denver by being routed around because that are going to experience disruptions.


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## Kay

Good grief. Should have proofed my posting before hitting Reply. What I meant to say was:

I just got off the phone with Amtrak and was told that the train leaving out of Denver tonight to Chicago will not be impacted by the flooding. It is the travelers that need to get to Denver by being routed around because of the flooding that are going to experience disruptions. I was assured that there were no disruptions with Train 6 California Zephyr leaving Denver tonight.


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## eblkheart

Trains Magazine has an update in regards to Amtrak (And Colorado as a whole):



> As of 11 a.m. Friday, Amtrak is detouring both the eastbound and westbound _California Zephyr_ via Union Pacific’s Overland Route through Green River, Wyo., and Ogden, Utah, but is accepting reservations for Saturday and later over the regular route through the Moffat Tunnel.
> 
> The detour began Thursday, but owing to a Union Pacific track outage north of Denver, passengers from westbound train No. 5 were bussed to Cheyenne, Wyo., where the equipment of eastbound train No. 6 was turned to accept passengers as train No. 5. That westbound _Zephyr_ departed Salt Lake City this morning more than 7 hours late, but is set to continue to Emeryville so it can be properly serviced.


Source article updated moment ago


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## Swadian Hardcore

5 (11) is a disaster! The train is over 6 hours late! It won't get into EMY until about 10:00 PM! The CZ has really been running into a slew of delays recently.


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## The Davy Crockett

With more rain forecast for the impacted area through at least Sunday (9/15) it could be a few days before things start to return to some sort of normalcy.


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## jis

Actually some would consider the 5(11) is lucky to be getting to EMY at all!


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## zephyr17

Swadian Hardcore said:


> 5 (11) is a disaster! The train is over 6 hours late! It won't get into EMY until about 10:00 PM! The CZ has really been running into a slew of delays recently.


6 hours is actually pretty good considering what's going on. I've been on more than my share of trains that are 10-14 hours late. You learn to like Dinty Moore.


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## eblkheart

With some of the damage I have seen on the rail system here, it's going to be awhile before anything near normal.


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## chakk

Kay said:


> I am traveling out of Denver to Chicago tonight and was told by Amtrak that there was not a rerouting through Cheyenne that will occur for eastboud travelers (only westbound travelers affected). Is that because Train 5 that was halted here and could not go any further west and is being turned around and departing for Chicago from Denver? Getting any good answers from Amtrak website has proved to be impossible and travelers are not being kept up to date. Thanks much.


I think you are correct. The westbound train that went to Denver could neither go west through Colorado or north to Cheyenne, then west to California, due to track damage from rockslides and flooding. So its equipment will now go east from Denver back to Chicago.


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## pdxjim

My cousin was bussed from Denver to Cheyenne, got to see the old Cheyenne depot (had never been to Wyoming). He is having a blast and doesn't care if there is a six hour delay. He is connecting in Sacramento to the Coast Starlight and if you have ever done that connection, it is usually a 10 1/2 hour wait.

A soccer team bailed in Denver and flew out and about 50 people threw up their hands and left the train saying "never again".


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## Swadian Hardcore

zephyr17 said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 (11) is a disaster! The train is over 6 hours late! It won't get into EMY until about 10:00 PM! The CZ has really been running into a slew of delays recently.
> 
> 
> 
> 6 hours is actually pretty good considering what's going on. I've been on more than my share of trains that are 10-14 hours late. You learn to like Dinty Moore.
Click to expand...

You bet I've been on massive delays too! But 6 hours is quite a lot of the CZ, which is usually on-time or close to it.

A possibility might be to try a US Route 85 bustitute to get to Cheyenne a bit further east from Boulder. If all else fails, Amtrak could try bustituting along US 34 from FMG then US 85 north from Greeley to get to Cheyenne. Sure, it'll miss DEN, but it's better than nothing!

That is, if the flooding gets worse and no trains can take the Wyoming route at all.


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## Mary Ann

I'm in Truckee, California. The CZ that was due to arrive at 9:37 AM pulled in about 4 PM. Amtrak 800 staff say the disruption is over now and they expect tomorrow's CZ to arrive in Truckee early.


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## EB Young

The damage between Denver and Cheyenne is astounding - and is getting worse as the water from the mountains hits the bridges on I-25. The railroads are taking an enormous hit - we're talking more rain in a day than these areas typically have in a year - and the water from the South Platte river is still rising. Those of you on the Zephyr should be patient. I ride the train several times each year and I know that delays are very frustrating, but your delay is a very small thing compared to what is going on in the foothills. Those of you who have ridden the Zephyr west out of Denver know what the climb is like toward the Moffat tunnel and how many creeks and rivers it crosses. Imagine those areas with more water rushing through them than anyone alive has ever seen. That's the situation. If you can get to a computer and want an aerial view of part of your route, try http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/flood-devastation-in-weld-county


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## Mary Ann

EB Young said:


> The damage between Denver and Cheyenne is astounding - and is getting worse as the water from the mountains hits the bridges on I-25. The railroads are taking an enormous hit - we're talking more rain in a day than these areas typically have in a year - and the water from the South Platte river is still rising. Those of you on the Zephyr should be patient. I ride the train several times each year and I know that delays are very frustrating, but your delay is a very small thing compared to what is going on in the foothills. Those of you who have ridden the Zephyr west out of Denver know what the climb is like toward the Moffat tunnel and how many creeks and rivers it crosses. Imagine those areas with more water rushing through them than anyone alive has ever seen. That's the situation. If you can get to a computer and want an aerial view of part of your route, try http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/flood-devastation-in-weld-county


Good points re all the creeks and rivers west of Denver, and keeping it all in perspective. Delays are a minor inconvenience compared to drowning.


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## pianocat

I watched the video supplied by EB Young above, and am absolutely ASTOUNDED by the overwhelming devastation due to the floods in Colorado. That footage really makes it clear how massive this event is! I had to stop watching once I saw the closeup of the tethered horse that would surely by now have been swept away by the moving waters. Aside from the inconvenience of being stranded, please try to remember that it could have been much, much more disastrous for pax if CZ had been out IN the mountains when the slides began. I am so, so sorry for anyone affected by this natural disaster and wonder if there is any sort of fund to contribute to, similar to Storm Sandy last year. All be safe, and my thoughts are with people in the affected areas!!!


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## The Davy Crockett

pdxjim said:


> ...about 50 people threw up their hands and left the train saying "never again".


In light of the devastation that folks have pointed out so clearly in the above posts, the pax saying 'never again' and seemingly blaming Amtrak for this terrible event, which is quite obviously COMPLETELY out of Amtrak's control, makes those pax look... well... :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

Unfortunately, such are the times we live in. 

While I agree that Amtrak could probably have done a better job with communicating, a problem Amtrak seems to struggle with a lot, it sounds to me like Amtrak - and UP  - have done a pretty darn good job under the circumstances!


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## Guest_flaatlander

From Colorado DOT "members of the public and media in Boulder, Larimer, Jefferson and Clear Creek Counties are recommended to avoid all travel on state highways and bridges unless absolutely essential."

"And media" -- seems that the county sherrifs and National Guard are using the few roads that aren't washed out - and every helicopter and boat they can find. Might explain the relative lack of national news stories. Weld county deputies - "no way to get to them" says Denver Post --

More rain likely through Sunday.


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## Tennessee Traveler

Unfortunately, rains and flooding like this media-wise don't really reach the vast majority of this country. How many of you were aware or cared when Nashville and Middle Tennessee received similar record devastating rainfall, 100 year flooding, massive damage and lost of life in May 2010? Of course, Amtrak does not serve Nashville so obviously it wasn't discussed on this forum. I sympathize with the thousands of home owners, businesses, and others in the Boulder areas because lives are changed forever and the recovery take years. In Nashville, it was two years after the May 2010 flooding before many businesses reopened including the huge Opry Mills Shopping Center. Even Opryland Hotel took eight months to rebuild and open for business.


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## NW cannonball

Two things --

Amtrak and the UP - seem to have missed the worst of the disaster - partly because of the UP tracks not being in the worst of the flooding and washouts and landslides. Was that just luck or were the track design engineers a century and more ago more scared of floods and landslides? Built higher and safer? (I have no clue about track profiles and land profiles in Colorado) About Amtrak communication skills -- a fair to poor record, but seems they got passengers to where they wanted to be despite the floods - delayed, yes - drowned by falling into some gorge, no.

The floods - the danger was predicted well before it happened by the NWS-NOAA. The rain started early in the week. Colorado was warned and heeded the warnings. Without that advance warning of record-setting rains, flash floods and all there would be *many *more than the four fatalities so far. Gov Hickenlooper declared statewide disaster emergency Thursday Sep 12 morning, and the Feds followed later in the day.

The national media didn't notice much -- and maybe that was a good thing -- ( *[email protected] blathering -- idiots - bias bias bias - ambulance-chasing *$)% -- sorry) -- but it seems that Colorado was well-prepared for what turned out to be totally unprecedented rainfall -- like - a year's rain in two days some places. Seems that the counties and their National Guard and local volunteers are barely keeping up. Bless em.

There will be and already are thousands of families out of their homes and likely have to rebuild before they can return.

Repeat - this a major and unprecedented disaster for Colorado. Way far above any record rainfall in the last hundred years.


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## AmtrakBlue

As to national news, I've been hearing about it on ABC's local & national news here in DE (local station is in Philly).


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## NW cannonball

Now 5(12) shows only 12 minutes late west from Reno, and 6(12) 3hours late east of Osceola.

How did Amtrak do that?


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## jis

To has reports that say that both 5 and 6 of 12 ran SLC - OMA on UP, with bus bridges to various locations on the regular route. Amtrak flew the Denver crew from Denver to Cheyenne and then used the same plane to fly the crew from Cheyenne to Denver.

It is reported that today 5 is going OMA - DEN - Borie _SLC. But we'll see what happens actually. Apparently the South Platte River Bridge has survived and is usable again between Denver and Borie WY.


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## eblkheart

pianocat said:


> I had to stop watching once I saw the closeup of the tethered horse that would surely by now have been swept away by the moving waters.


Just an fyi, the horse is fine  (news flew over the same location and the horse was still there, alive and well. The area is now muddy with some water, so I'm willing to bet the ranchers are going to make it back today.


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## pianocat

Thank you for that update !


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## DaddyJim

_Did # 6 make it out of EMY this am ?_


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## leemell

DaddyJim said:


> _Did # 6 make it out of EMY this am ?_


Doesn't look like it. It is not on the status map and shows as "Service Disruption".


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## greatcats

It does say service disruption, but the app says it departed at 9:31 am.


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## DaddyJim

Thanks From the news reports looks like they have a big mess to clean up in Co... The Wife and I will be on #6 10/3 from EMY to CHI


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## Swadian Hardcore

The CZ was supposed to pass through here about 30 minutes ago, and I still haven't heard it. There's two grade crossings nearby, the train should blow "long-long-short-long" through each one. I heard a UP frieght about 1 pm.

I can't acess Status Maps for some reason and Amtrak Train Status shows a Service Disruption.


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## leemell

greatcats said:


> It does say service disruption, but the app says it departed at 9:31 am.


Amtrak status says is doesn't know when it will depart and still shows no train.


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## chakk

leemell said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does say service disruption, but the app says it departed at 9:31 am.
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak status says is doesn't know when it will depart and still shows no train.
Click to expand...

Amtrak app on iPhone shows 6(14) departed Elko, NV on time at 9:31PM.


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## ChrisJ

I just got off the phone with Amtrak. The plan for today, and the next few (several?) days, is: #5 will turn at Denver (to become #6), and #6 will turn at Grand Junction (to become #5), with bustitution between Denver & Grand Junction. All subject to change at any time, of course.


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## Montanan

There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:


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## Nathanael

Boy. Looks to me like that should be bridged rather than being filled. Need to allow for drainage...


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## Bob Dylan

Montanan said:


> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:


This needs a Bridge, not fill! Poor engineering!


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## Nathanael

The levee failed at Fort Morgan and parts of Fort Morgan are flooding.

http://kdvr.com/2013/09/15/platte-river-floods-parts-of-fort-morgan/

FYI, Fort Morgan preemptively evacuated the areas near the riverside.

Fort Morgan is downstream from Greeley on the South Platte River. Greeley, which is at the confluence of the South Platte and the Poudre, was massively flooded yesterday, as the water from all the other floods flows through it.

It's still raining.

It seems that Fort Morgan Amtrak is fairly high uphill so it will probably be OK. But this is just a sign of how far this extends. I doubt that Nebraska will get flooding from this event... but it might.


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## Agent

Nathanael said:


> Boy. Looks to me like that should be bridged rather than being filled. Need to allow for drainage...





jimhudson said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:
> 
> 
> 
> This needs a Bridge, not fill! Poor engineering!
Click to expand...

According to this, there was a bridge there when the line was originally built by the Denver & Salt Lake, but it was later filled in.


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## PRR 60

jimhudson said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This needs a Bridge, not fill! Poor engineering!
Click to expand...

It likely had culverts (that are now down the canyon somewhere). It will likely get culverts again, although almost certainly larger ones.


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## railiner

NW cannonball said:


> Now 5(12) shows only 12 minutes late west from Reno, and 6(12) 3hours late east of Osceola.
> 
> How did Amtrak do that?


By turning the trains at Denver and Cheyenne....

Denver to Salt Lake City for the CZ is normally about 14 to 15 hours....Cheyenne to SLC on the Overland Route is only about 9 to 10 hours.....


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## Linda T

So is that actually the Zephyr's route? Wow!


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## Ringfinder

So can Amtrak from Chicago to Emeryville get through? Or what kind of a detour is it making and is it by train or bus?


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## PRR 60

Ringfinder said:


> So can Amtrak from Chicago to Emeryville get through? Or what kind of a detour is it making and is it by train or bus?


The last info I saw posted was that a Zephyr set is running between Chicago to Denver, and a second set is running between Cheyenne WY and Emeryville. Through passengers, along with passengers between Denver and points west are being bussed between Denver and Cheyenne.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Ringfinder said:


> So can Amtrak from Chicago to Emeryville get through? Or what kind of a detour is it making and is it by train or bus?


I can't find any accurate status, but AFAIK, the trains are *not *getting through. Apparently they're turning the opposite train around at Denver and Cheyenne (detour via Wyoming), with a bustitute to ferry passengers between the two trains. 5 becomes 6, 6 becomes 5. This could get impossible with the flooding near Fort Morgan which was out both I-25 and US 85, the two easternmost roads Denver-Cheyenne. US 287 is obviously impossible because it's even closer to the flooding. Denver forecasts predict more thunder-showers tonight, which could make things go very bad very fast.

Making things worse, there's heavy rains in western Wyoming which could swamp the Wyoming route as well. If that happens, the CZ would be totally suspended infedinitely. Everywhere up and down the Rocky Mountains is being hit by heavy rains.

If you're riding the CZ anytime soon, prepare for the worst, and be ready to scrap and cancel at the last minute.


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## Ringfinder

Bummer, we are heading west in the morning out of Chicago to Emeryville. We are supposed to be in LA Saturday for

my nephews wedding. I hope all goes well.

Thanks for the info, I asked Amtrak and they said everything was OK, go figure.

DM


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## Montanan

Though the information at this point is of course incomplete, there are apparently at least a couple other washouts on the Moffat line, as well, though the one in the photo is the big one. I've seen estimates that the line might be out of service for a month or so, though until the repairs actually get underway it's really anybody's guess.

The next couple of days are really going to be interesting, but I think things will sort themselves out fairly quickly and I don't think the detour route across Wyoming is in any significant danger. I've seen reports of a possible bus bridge between Denver and Grand Junction in the short term, but I don't know that Amtrak would want to continue that for a month. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that within a couple of days Amtrak will start running the CZ as a through train again, via the Wyoming detour route it's used in the past. That will depend, though, on the condition of the track between Denver and the Cheyenne area.


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## PRR 60

Note that I-25 is now open between Denver and Wyoming. That permits the bus bridge.


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## Ringfinder

I am wondering if Amtrak will send us from Chicago directly to La. via another route, since that is our distination. Maybe south to NM. then over to La? Guess we will find out when we get to Chicago tomorrow.


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## Ringfinder

So if we go to Wyoming, do we then take a bus to where ever or the train?


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## Montanan

Ringfinder said:


> So if we go to Wyoming, do we then take a bus to where ever or the train?


If the train isn't running all the way through, what would happen is that you'd ride the train to Denver, board a bus from there to either Cheyenne or Grand Junction, and then reboard an identical train that would take you on to Emeryville. It likely wouldn't result in much of a delay, if any, in your final arrival time in California.


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## Ringfinder

Thank you all for helping me understand what is going on. I guess we all should be thankful and keep those who are

in danger in our prayers.

Thanks Again,

DM


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## Guest

According to post #63 above, #5 is being turned at Denver, #6 being turned at Grand Junction, with a bus bridge between.


----------



## Guest

Ringfinder said:


> I am wondering if Amtrak will send us from Chicago directly to La. via another route, since that is our distination. Maybe south to NM. then over to La? Guess we will find out when we get to Chicago tomorrow.


If I were you, I would call Amtrak and *ask* to be switched onto the Southwest Chief, which runs from Chicago directly to LA (via Albuquerque).

The Southwest Chief is running just fine right now, and it will actually get you into LA quicker. It's also a beautiful route over the Raton Pass (for now) and it's worth seeing. (The SW Chief may not be running on the same route after 2015.)


----------



## Nathanael

Montanan said:


> Though the information at this point is of course incomplete, there are apparently at least a couple other washouts on the Moffat line, as well, though the one in the photo is the big one. I've seen estimates that the line might be out of service for a month or so, though until the repairs actually get underway it's really anybody's guess.


Remember, UP has to repair its route through Greeley as well (which was washed out in at least one place, probably more) -- that's more important for them so they'll probably repair it first. It could be a while before the Moffat line is fixed.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

PRR 60 said:


> Note that I-25 is now open between Denver and Wyoming. That permits the bus bridge.


Was US 85 washed out through Greeley before I-25 reopened?

Edit: Look at this nasty rail damage in Colorado: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451152&nseq=550, http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451184&nseq=551


----------



## railiner

Montanan said:


> Ringfinder said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if we go to Wyoming, do we then take a bus to where ever or the train?
> 
> 
> 
> If the train isn't running all the way through, what would happen is that you'd ride the train to Denver, board a bus from there to either Cheyenne or Grand Junction, and then reboard an identical train that would take you on to Emeryville. It likely wouldn't result in much of a delay, if any, in your final arrival time in California.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Overland Route, as I previously mentioned, is significantly faster from Denver to Salt Lake City than the Moffat Tunnel route, even if bussing from Denver to Cheyenne. And if they turn the western segment at Grand Junction instead of Cheyenne, the 'bus bridge' from Denver to Grand Junction is at least two hours faster on I-70 then the train normally is.....this way they would still serve more of the regular route, and not detour.....


----------



## jis

Swadian Hardcore said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I-25 is now open between Denver and Wyoming. That permits the bus bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Was US 85 washed out through Greeley before I-25 reopened?
> 
> Edit: Look at this nasty rail damage in Colorado: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451152&nseq=550, http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451184&nseq=551
Click to expand...

Both of those are on the BNSF Line north of Denver.
Here is a pretty complete list of current road closures in and around Denver/Boulder/Loveland/Fort Collins and north east Colorado:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/traffic/traffic-news/road-closures-due-to-flooding-mud-rock-slides-includes-us-36-us-34-co-14-co-72


----------



## DaddyJim

Amtrak.com shows # 6 departed EMY @ 09:11 this am. Are they during the bus connection in Grand Junction to DEN to #5 ?


----------



## LD's Mom

The train ride from Denver to Glenwood is scenic so my folks are flying into Denver this week with original plans to ride the train to Glenwood to visit me. Am I right to assume that the bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction would make a stop along the way in Glenwood? It is right off the Interstate. Thanks!


----------



## Ringfinder

Thanks for all the information, we are in Chiago now and they told us at Denver we will be bussed to Grand Juntion then on to Emeryville!

Thanks Again, what a Great form!


----------



## Chuck Shulock

We are leaving Sunday on CZ from Sacramento to Chicago with 2 day stopover in Glenwood Springs. So keeping fingers crossed that they keep doing bus bridge from Grand Junction rather than Cheyenne. Thanks to all posting on this board, it is by far the best source of info I have found.


----------



## Robert Allen

LD's Mom said:


> The train ride from Denver to Glenwood is scenic so my folks are flying into Denver this week with original plans to ride the train to Glenwood to visit me. Am I right to assume that the bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction would make a stop along the way in Glenwood? It is right off the Interstate. Thanks!


I was told by an Amtrak agent Sunday afternoon, that there would be NO stop in Glenwood Springs, where I wanted to go. I would be bused from Denver to Grand Junction, then bused back to Glenwood Springs. Wouldn't it make better sense in this case to stop the bus on I-70 exit in G. S. and let people off RATHER than spend another 2 hours to G. Jctn and another 2 hours back to G. S.????????????????????????????????? I certainly think so. I'd be willing to walk from I-70 to the Amtrak station in G. S. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeez, are the inmates running the bus operation?????


----------



## jis

Since most of the passengers are not originating or terminating at Glenwood Springs, it probably makes sense to run the Denver originating buses straight to Grand Junction and then do any distribution of local passengers from there. Considering the circumstances people should than their stars that Amtrak has not pulled one of their favorite "Service canceled with no alternatives provided" this time around. I suspect if there were at least a van full of passengers for Glenwood Spring's they'd probably organize a van from Denver, but under these circumstances it is hard to tell what challenges they are facing in the way of availability of transport too. So I would not jump up and call the folks trying to organize alternative transport as "inmates" quite yet.

My suspicion is that they are doing a single round trip Glenwood Springs - Grand Junction - Glenwood Springs, handling passengers for both 5 and 6.


----------



## PRR 60

jis said:


> Since most of the passengers are not originating or terminating at Glenwood Springs, it probably makes sense to run the Denver originating buses straight to Grand Junction and then do any distribution of local passengers from there. Considering the circumstances people should than their stars that Amtrak has not pulled one of their favorite "Service canceled with no alternatives provided" this time around. I suspect if there were at least a van full of passengers for Glenwood Spring's they'd probably organize a van from Denver, but under these circumstances it is hard to tell what challenges they are facing in the way of availability of transport too. So I would not jump up and call the folks trying to organize alternative transport as "inmates" quite yet.
> 
> My suspicion is that they are doing a single round trip Glenwood Springs - Grand Junction - Glenwood Springs, handling passengers for both 5 and 6.


Except the Denver to Grand Junction buses will drive right through Glenwood Springs on the way. If I were bound for Glenwood Springs, I would not be happy if I rolled right through town, then went 90 miles further only to have head the same 90 miles back.


----------



## jis

Yeah, they could stop there unless it cause them to delay the departure of 6. I don;t know enough about the details of the scheduling constraints to have an informed opinion on this one. If it is a minor 15 minute additional it would make sense. OTOH, if it becomes an additional hour then not.

OTOH if someone is willing to be dropped off somewhere near I-70 where it is legal to drop off a pedestrian, that may be considered too with adequate releases I would imagine. 

There are all kinds of possibilities to consider definitely.


----------



## purdum

We took CZ out of Chicago last night and it went as far as Denver this morning, where we boarded buses for Grand Junction. There was one bus which made a stop in Glenwood Springs and then continued on to GJ, and two other buses which ran straight from Denver to GJ. The bus ride was 2-1/2 hours shorter than the train would have been.


----------



## Bob Dylan

:hi: Kudoos to Amtrak, sounds like they have their stuff together this time! And hopefully the Rain has ended and the Poor Folks in Northern Colorado can start getting their lives back to normal!


----------



## Tennessee Traveler

I noticed both 5(16) and 6(16) are on the Status Maps as departed on time and not reported as Service Disruption. Is it possible they anticipate the Moffat Route to be open by Tuesday?


----------



## yarrow

Tennessee Traveler said:


> I noticed both 5(16) and 6(16) are on the Status Maps as departed on time and not reported as Service Disruption. Is it possible they anticipate the Moffat Route to be open by Tuesday?


with the pics i saw on train orders of the damage from the tunnel east towards denver i can't imagine that route open for a good while. we shall see


----------



## purdum

One of the Amtrak employees in Grand Junction told us it will likely be at least two weeks before the CZ service is back to normal. That's certainly not an official Amtrak statement, just the speculation of one employee, so take with a big grain of salt.


----------



## Chuck

So glad I found this discussion page. I will have to create an account.

We own and operate Dave's Depot, a convenience/souvenir shop inside the Amtrak Station in Grand Junction Colorado. We have been told, unofficially and only from the agents and conductors, that because of the large scale of the wash-out near the Moffat Tunnel, it will take at least a month to replace the section of track lost, with a bridge. And after a few more days, the bus-bridge between Grand Junction and Denver will end, and the train will be re-routed through Wyoming. However, after some research, and reading posts here, it sounds like some of the rail in eastern Colorado needs to be repaired as well, before that route can be used. I will be checking back here, and other sources, to keep up to date. I sure hope that it will not take that long to get the route through the Mtns back repaired, as the 2 daily trains (#6 and #5) are the entire customer base for this our little store. But more likely, it will be a while


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Chuck, sorry to hear how this is affecting your business. I hope the trains will be rolling through in no time, though I imagine it will take some time to make the necessary repairs.

Please do join. We're a great community. Members on here are like a 2nd family for me.


----------



## fairviewroad

Chuck said:


> So glad I found this discussion page. I will have to create an account.
> 
> We own and operate Dave's Depot, a convenience/souvenir shop inside the Amtrak Station in Grand Junction Colorado.


Welcome, Chuck! I've shopped at your store. A nice way to take a break from Amcafe options

while on a long trip. Hope you guys come through this okay!


----------



## Blackwolf

Chuck said:


> So glad I found this discussion page. I will have to create an account.
> 
> We own and operate Dave's Depot, a convenience/souvenir shop inside the Amtrak Station in Grand Junction Colorado.


Indeed, considering the connection between your business and Amtrak, joining our community here could give you some valuable business connections both in terms of one-on-one communications with a percentage of your customers (I figure any number of AU'ers, as we call ourselves, have stopped in your store. I have!) as well as information on the daily Zephyrs. It is very troublesome that you are impacted so directly by the absence of Amtrak running its routing, and it adds to the urgency of getting the required repairs done as soon as possible.

As others have said, hopefully you are able to come through this well enough!

In a lighter topic of discussion, since it is a common thread talked about here and elsewhere, do you carry Coca Cola products in your store? I honestly cannot recall if you do or not, but since Amtrak only serves Pepsi products on board, selling Coca Cola and prominently advertising that fact would be massive welcomed by the Amtrak Unlimited community!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Ditto on the Coca Cola.


----------



## Zach

Montanan said:


> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:


Who took this picture???


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Zach said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who took this picture???
Click to expand...

Someone in a plane or helicopter. You can see the reflection of the glass window.


----------



## CZ new traveller

I am planning to ride the #5 line on Sept. 19th all the way from Chicago to Emeryville. Should I change my plan? What is the prospect that the line will be fixed in this area by then?


----------



## SWC

The main Zephyr route will be closed for sure.. but there is also Bustitution when you leave Denver to I believe Grand Junction.

But if you don't want the bus, your best choice is to take the Southwest Chief to Los Angeles then the Coast Starlight to Emeryville.


----------



## Guest

Hi Folks,

Thanks for providing a great forum for what is going on in Colorado. I have a question for the people who know this route:

My Dad and I were planning on meeting in Denver October 2nd and taking the train West to Sacramento on October 3rd. This is purely a jolly to see the Rockies by train and visit. While it sounds like the bus shuttle to Grand Junction is working for those wanting to travel from A to B, is it worthwhile for us or should we look at taking the northern route through Wyoming or reschedule altogether?

Any help/ advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

TM


----------



## Guest

Guest said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Thanks for providing a great forum for what is going on in Colorado. I have a question for the people who know this route:
> 
> My Dad and I were planning on meeting in Denver October 2nd and taking the train West to Sacramento on October 3rd. This is purely a jolly to see the Rockies by train and visit. While it sounds like the bus shuttle to Grand Junction is working for those wanting to travel from A to B, is it worthwhile for us or should we look at taking the northern route through Wyoming or reschedule altogether?
> 
> Any help/ advice is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TM


I think that should read Montana, Sorry.


----------



## Jessica

Hi, My mother will be coming in from Sacramento Ca on the 30th of Sept. to Denver. Anyone have any idea on the chance of her being able to get into Denver on the train, or will she have to bus it from somewhere?


----------



## Guest

If you can change your itinerary to use another transcontinental train, I bet you'd be better off, Guest_Guest. No one's predicting when roadways will be reopened in the flood zone, and I bet the roadways will receive more resources and attention than railways, as usual.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

jis said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I-25 is now open between Denver and Wyoming. That permits the bus bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Was US 85 washed out through Greeley before I-25 reopened?
> 
> Edit: Look at this nasty rail damage in Colorado: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451152&nseq=550, http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451184&nseq=551
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both of those are on the BNSF Line north of Denver.
> Here is a pretty complete list of current road closures in and around Denver/Boulder/Loveland/Fort Collins and north east Colorado:
> 
> http://www.thedenverchannel.com/traffic/traffic-news/road-closures-due-to-flooding-mud-rock-slides-includes-us-36-us-34-co-14-co-72
Click to expand...

I'm familiar with many of the Denver-area roads (former resident). That damage looks pretty bad, though US 85 and Us 285 are still fully operational. Bustitution on I-70 seems OK except the Quebec Street off-ramp. Denver rain has been dying down, but things are still inemergency condition.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

We're being flooded with worried guests. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen, but the scheduled rail line won't be running anytime soon, it's been washed out and devastated. If UP is slow on it, the route might not even run until early November. Right now UP is going to be trying hard to fix the line up to Cheyenne, when that is fixed I expect the CZ to run on that until the Rio Grande gets fixed.

Right now the CZ is being broken between Grand Junction and Denver, there's chartered buses running in between. Soon, this will stop and the train will be running through Wyoming along the Overland Route.

The Wyoming route dosen't have regular passenger rail service, so you could take this oppurtunity just o experience the route. You can get an idea of what the scenery is like by using Street View on Goolgle Maps and looking along I-80. The same route is operated by Greyhound's Denver-Portland thorugh buses, if you're interested.

If you want to take another train, you have two options: the northerly Empire Builder, which is suffering from its own massive delay problems and a section fo very poor track (Fargo-Grand Forks) and the southerly Southwest Chief to Los Angeles though the desert which is mostly on-time. This train take the Raton Pass route which is under threat of abandonment. You could grab this chance to experience a rare railroad line. Be warned that track conditions aren't great on this route either, some track in Kansas, southern Colorado, and New Mexico are also in disrepair.

If you only care about a smooth ride on well-maintained track, then you could detour onto the Sunset Limited running along the Meixcan border. But that is a huge detour and might not be advisable because it only runs thrice a week, dosen't run daily.

Hopefully that will answer the many questions popping up here.


----------



## railiner

With this 'bustitution', while it will disappoint those wanting the very scenic train ride, it will have the effect of actually improving CHI/EMY overall ontime performance, due to the faster running of the 'bus bridge', and the extra time for servicing the trains during their 'turnaround'.....


----------



## railiner

I was just thinking....wonder how the OBS crews are being handled....are these normally CHI based, or are some based in EMY (or OAK)?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Jessica said:


> Hi, My mother will be coming in from Sacramento Ca on the 30th of Sept. to Denver. Anyone have any idea on the chance of her being able to get into Denver on the train, or will she have to bus it from somewhere?


If there is bustitutions, Amtrak will handle the transfer from train to bus & the bus will take your mom & her luggage to the Denver station.


----------



## jim6300loco

Swadian Hardcore said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I-25 is now open between Denver and Wyoming. That permits the bus bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Was US 85 washed out through Greeley before I-25 reopened?
> 
> Edit: Look at this nasty rail damage in Colorado: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451152&nseq=550, http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=451184&nseq=551
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both of those are on the BNSF Line north of Denver.
> Here is a pretty complete list of current road closures in and around Denver/Boulder/Loveland/Fort Collins and north east Colorado:
> 
> http://www.thedenverchannel.com/traffic/traffic-news/road-closures-due-to-flooding-mud-rock-slides-includes-us-36-us-34-co-14-co-72
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm familiar with many of the Denver-area roads (former resident). That damage looks pretty bad, though US 85 and Us 285 are still fully operational. Bustitution on I-70 seems OK except the Quebec Street off-ramp. Denver rain has been dying down, but things are still inemergency condition.
Click to expand...

When you say in "Emergency Condition" do you mean a "State of Emergency"? The reason I ask is my wife and I are travelling to Denver, leaving Chicago on the 19th and arriving the 20th. We are then renting a car ot drive to Colorado Springs. Will we have trouble travelling through Denver and south to Colorado Springs? thank you for your reply.

Jim


----------



## PRR 60

Zach said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a major washout between Denver and the Moffat Tunnel ... just above Tunnel #2, I think. The line's likely to be out of service for a while:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who took this picture???
Click to expand...

County Sheriff Department during a damage assessment flight.


----------



## PRR 60

jim6300loco said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm familiar with many of the Denver-area roads (former resident). That damage looks pretty bad, though US 85 and Us 285 are still fully operational. Bustitution on I-70 seems OK except the Quebec Street off-ramp. Denver rain has been dying down, but things are still inemergency condition.
> 
> 
> 
> When you say in "Emergency Condition" do you mean a "State of Emergency"? The reason I ask is my wife and I are travelling to Denver, leaving Chicago on the 19th and arriving the 20th. We are then renting a car ot drive to Colorado Springs. Will we have trouble travelling through Denver and south to Colorado Springs? thank you for your reply.Jim
Click to expand...

The majority of the issues are north and west of Denver. I-25 is open both ways out of Denver, including south to Colorado Springs. You should be fine.


----------



## Tourist from Uruguay

I just tried to cancel my reservation for the Zephyr train on the 29th of September and was told my reservation is ACTIVE and if I want to cancel I will be charged penalties.

How can the reservation be active with no track to run the train on?

How close to the travel date is Amtrak going to wait?

Do I get any compensation for having to book last minute plane tickets while they refuse to refund my reservation without a penalty?

This sucks...


----------



## AmtrakBlue

The trains are running, just not through parts of the Rockies.


----------



## Notelvis

Chuck said:


> So glad I found this discussion page. I will have to create an account.
> 
> We own and operate Dave's Depot, a convenience/souvenir shop inside the Amtrak Station in Grand Junction Colorado. We have been told, unofficially and only from the agents and conductors, that because of the large scale of the wash-out near the Moffat Tunnel, it will take at least a month to replace the section of track lost, with a bridge. And after a few more days, the bus-bridge between Grand Junction and Denver will end, and the train will be re-routed through Wyoming. However, after some research, and reading posts here, it sounds like some of the rail in eastern Colorado needs to be repaired as well, before that route can be used. I will be checking back here, and other sources, to keep up to date. I sure hope that it will not take that long to get the route through the Mtns back repaired, as the 2 daily trains (#6 and #5) are the entire customer base for this our little store. But more likely, it will be a while


Welcome Chuck -

By all means register with the forum. You are in a unique position to provide 'boots on the ground' updates on what is going on with the California Zephyr during this ...... and future...... service disruptions.

Like many others on this board, I have stocked up in your store during the Grand Junction service stop. I like how it is an eclectic mix of things that appeal not only to the casual passenger looking for lower cost provisions but also to the hard core railfan in terms of route guides and what not.

Based on what I'm reading - my conjecture is that the CZ will continue doing the bus bridge thing between Grand Junction and Denver until the Union Pacific reopens the railroad from Denver through Greeley north to Wyoming. Once this happens...... perhaps as soon as in a few days........ the CZ consists will again begin operating through from Chicago to California albeit on the detour through Wyoming. I would be very surprised if the train is operating through Colorado on it's traditional D&RGW route again before the middle of October....... maybe even November.

Chuck - I wish you the best. Hopefully the next few days with passengers milling around with extra time at Grand Junction in both directions will be so good for you business-wise that you'll be able to weather the dry-spell during the Wyoming detour.

One question - is there still any chatter at all these days about restoring the old D&RGW station next door to you in Grand Junction? I would sure like to see that building saved.


----------



## Notelvis

Tourist from Uruguay said:


> I just tried to cancel my reservation for the Zephyr train on the 29th of September and was told my reservation is ACTIVE and if I want to cancel I will be charged penalties.
> 
> How can the reservation be active with no track to run the train on?
> 
> How close to the travel date is Amtrak going to wait?
> 
> Do I get any compensation for having to book last minute plane tickets while they refuse to refund my reservation without a penalty?
> 
> This sucks...


Best conjecture at this point is that the train *will* be running all the way from Chicago to California by the time you make your trip. It is most likely, however, that it will still be detouring through Wyoming missing it's station stops between Denver and Salt Lake City.

While it is not as stunning as the climb into the rockies departing Denver, the scenery through Wyoming is remarkable in it's own way. I once booked a trip on the California Zephyr at the last minute so that I could ride the Wyoming detour and be able to compare the two routes for myself. As the Wyoming route no longer has regular passenger train service, I am glad that I had the opportunity to ride it.

One plus - the route through Wyoming is actually a bit shorter and faster so the chance of a detoured CZ being on-time at it's endpoints is actually better when it is on the detour.


----------



## jis

A ground level view of the washout. Let's see if this photo can be viewed here....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201379306701248&set=pcb.10152196696989115&type=1&theater


----------



## AKA

Chuck said:


> So glad I found this discussion page. I will have to create an account.
> 
> We own and operate Dave's Depot, a convenience/souvenir shop inside the Amtrak Station in Grand Junction Colorado. We have been told, unofficially and only from the agents and conductors, that because of the large scale of the wash-out near the Moffat Tunnel, it will take at least a month to replace the section of track lost, with a bridge. And after a few more days, the bus-bridge between Grand Junction and Denver will end, and the train will be re-routed through Wyoming. However, after some research, and reading posts here, it sounds like some of the rail in eastern Colorado needs to be repaired as well, before that route can be used. I will be checking back here, and other sources, to keep up to date. I sure hope that it will not take that long to get the route through the Mtns back repaired, as the 2 daily trains (#6 and #5) are the entire customer base for this our little store. But more likely, it will be a while


Hi, Chuck

Nice to see you the forum.

I have had two unique experiences at your store. One was odd, one was near life saving. What could have been very stressful situation was cut short by your store having an over the counter medication. While the med was a simple otc tablet it saved what may have been a trip to an emergency room. In the middle of the Rockies on a train, your store saved the day. Thank goodness.

I hope things get opened up soon and you get back in business.


----------



## Anderson

*sighs*
And now, I think I have something competing for my attention at fall break...


----------



## Nathanael

jim6300loco said:


> When you say in "Emergency Condition" do you mean a "State of Emergency"?


Yes.


> The reason I ask is my wife and I are travelling to Denver, leaving Chicago on the 19th and arriving the 20th. We are then renting a car ot drive to Colorado Springs. Will we have trouble travelling through Denver and south to Colorado Springs? thank you for your reply.
> 
> Jim


South of Denver to Colorado Springs has mostly reopened. North of Denver as far as Fort Collins is a complete mess.


----------



## jshell

Swadian Hardcore said:


> We're being flooded with worried guests. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen, but the scheduled rail line won't be running anytime soon, it's been washed out and devastated. If UP is slow on it, the route might not even run until early November. Right now UP is going to be trying hard to fix the line up to Cheyenne, when that is fixed I expect the CZ to run on that until the Rio Grande gets fixed.
> 
> Right now the CZ is being broken between Grand Junction and Denver, there's chartered buses running in between. Soon, this will stop and the train will be running through Wyoming along the Overland Route.
> 
> The Wyoming route dosen't have regular passenger rail service, so you could take this oppurtunity just o experience the route. You can get an idea of what the scenery is like by using Street View on Goolgle Maps and looking along I-80. The same route is operated by Greyhound's Denver-Portland thorugh buses, if you're interested.



Thanks for the info. I just joined this forum as I found this page / discussion as some of the only information available about what's going on. I've been riding the Zephyr between Denver and Salt Lake about once a year for the past few years and have my second full cross-country trip scheduled for early November (from St Petersburg FL all the way back to Salt Lake). Looks like they have a big task ahead repairing the rails. I still have a month and a half until my trip but it's starting to sound like I should hold on to my plans. I'll be fine with the Wyoming route since I've done the Moffat line four times already (but always in April/May, never in November).

I understand this is still a fresh and evolving situation, but I find it hard to believe Amtrak has nothing on their 'service alerts and notices' page. It seems like they don't cover the Zephyr there at all (maybe none of the cross country trains?) as a couple of weeks ago the Zephyr was on "Service Disruption" alert and no info anywhere on the web site. (I've been idly keeping an eye on its timeliness, as I've had good luck with it in the spring, but even before the floods it seemed to be off-schedule quite a bit in recent weeks).


----------



## railiner

This washout brings to mind 1983. The year the Rio Grande 'threw in the towel', and finally 'joined' Amtrak, resulting in the CZ returning to its rails. The only problem, was a massive slide at Thistle, Utah, that took over five months to reopen. During that period, the CZ ran thru Wyoming, and Amtrak chartered buses to cover the bypassed stations as well.


----------



## jim6300loco

PRR 60 said:


> jim6300loco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm familiar with many of the Denver-area roads (former resident). That damage looks pretty bad, though US 85 and Us 285 are still fully operational. Bustitution on I-70 seems OK except the Quebec Street off-ramp. Denver rain has been dying down, but things are still inemergency condition.
> 
> 
> 
> When you say in "Emergency Condition" do you mean a "State of Emergency"? The reason I ask is my wife and I are travelling to Denver, leaving Chicago on the 19th and arriving the 20th. We are then renting a car ot drive to Colorado Springs. Will we have trouble travelling through Denver and south to Colorado Springs? thank you for your reply.Jim
> 
> Thank you for this information. we feel a whole lot better now.
> 
> Jim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The majority of the issues are north and west of Denver. I-25 is open both ways out of Denver, including south to Colorado Springs. You should be fine.
Click to expand...


----------



## yarrow

jis said:


> A ground level view of the washout. Let's see if this photo can be viewed here....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201379306701248&set=pcb.10152196696989115&type=1&theater


nice pic. reminds me of the old mining railroads, other than the gague, we stumble on in the mountains of ne washington and the kootenay region of bc with tracks just going off into space. no moffat tunnel route for a while


----------



## Tim K

We're scheduled to ride the CZ from Grand Junction to Emeryville on October 9th. Any word on how Amtrak will deal with passengers originating in the "dead zone" west of Denver?


----------



## Beth

I'm leaving on the cz this Sunday heading from Ca to Chicago. This will be my 3rd trip on this route. I really hope that the lines are repaired for the reroute. I am not looking forward to getting cozy in my room for 1 nite and having to switch to a bus, then another train for the rest of my trip. It's starting to stress me out!


----------



## Joan

We leave from Iowa Saturday, destination San Francisco. We were kind of hoping to have the bus connection going west and the trip through Wyoming coming back east the following week, just for a change of scenery.....but we will be happy to have the train trip at all! We missed one a few years back when the trains were cancelled altogether because of the flooding in the Midwest (couldn't get across the Nebraska/Iowa border, as I recall).


----------



## Bob Dylan

Beth said:


> I'm leaving on the cz this Sunday heading from Ca to Chicago. This will be my 3rd trip on this route. I really hope that the lines are repaired for the reroute. I am not looking forward to getting cozy in my room for 1 nite and having to switch to a bus, then another train for the rest of my trip. It's starting to stress me out!


:hi: Look @ it as an adventure! The California to Grand Junction Portion of the trip is as usual and The Trip from Grand Junction to Denver via Bustitution will still have the Outstanding Mountain Scenery in Colorado! You didnt indicate if you Paid for your Trip or used AGR, but you should be in line for a Rebate or Voucher since you are missing out on Meals in the Diner and the Comfort of your Room between Grand Junction and Denver! Sit back, Relax, Enjoy the rideand leave the Driving to Amtrak!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Joan said:


> We leave from Iowa Saturday, destination San Francisco. We were kind of hoping to have the bus connection going west and the trip through Wyoming coming back east the following week, just for a change of scenery.....but we will be happy to have the train trip at all! We missed one a few years back when the trains were cancelled altogether because of the flooding in the Midwest (couldn't get across the Nebraska/Iowa border, as I recall).


:hi: Excellent attitude! Enjoy the trip, it will still be a Wonderful Journey!


----------



## Beth

Thanks for the heads up! I booked my trip with AGR and paying as I'm traveling roundtrip. Since this is the first time I'm making the trip solo, I'm nervous since thing will be different than in the past.

How long is the bus ride? I am not a huge fan of riding on the buses, since they tend to drive like Nascar drivers. Riding a bus in the mountains really is giving me anxiety!


----------



## Tim K

jimhudson said:


> :hi: Look @ it as an adventure! (...) Enjoy the rideand leave the Driving to Amtrak!


I like adventure too, but some of us have to get from A to B with a reasonable assurance that 1) the trip is possible, and 2) the arrival time will be somewhat close to the original estimate. Just got off the phone with Amtrak reservations. Long story short, they know nothing about schedules or routes for the CZ beyond the next 24 hours. When I asked about passengers originating travel in Grand Junction, silence, then a strange statement that they expect service to be restored by October 9th! Will the trains stop in Grand Junction? Will they be rerouted through Wyoming? The agent didn't know.


----------



## trainMane

Thank You guys for all the info. I am traveling from cle to oak. After your suggestions I am taking the Chief from Chi to La and the Coast Starlight to Oak. Instead of the CZ. Excited to try a new train and get to where I need to. AGR rep was amazingly helpful!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Tourist from Uruguay said:


> I just tried to cancel my reservation for the Zephyr train on the 29th of September and was told my reservation is ACTIVE and if I want to cancel I will be charged penalties.
> 
> How can the reservation be active with no track to run the train on?
> 
> How close to the travel date is Amtrak going to wait?
> 
> Do I get any compensation for having to book last minute plane tickets while they refuse to refund my reservation without a penalty?
> 
> This sucks...


You don't need to cancel it. The train will be running by then, it'll just a take another route. Just ride it, the route is rarely taken and you will enjoy it.



Tim K said:


> We're scheduled to ride the CZ from Grand Junction to Emeryville on October 9th. Any word on how Amtrak will deal with passengers originating in the "dead zone" west of Denver?


Buses will take you to SLC.



Beth said:


> I'm leaving on the cz this Sunday heading from Ca to Chicago. This will be my 3rd trip on this route. I really hope that the lines are repaired for the reroute. I am not looking forward to getting cozy in my room for 1 nite and having to switch to a bus, then another train for the rest of my trip. It's starting to stress me out!


The regular route will not be operational until at least late October. On Sunday the Wyoming route may be operational and the train would just take that instead with no need to get on a bustitute. If the route is not operational, then you'll have to get on a bus shuttle then onto another train.

No one knows for sure when the Wyoming route will be operational.



Tim K said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> 
> :hi: Look @ it as an adventure! (...) Enjoy the rideand leave the Driving to Amtrak!
> 
> 
> 
> I like adventure too, but some of us have to get from A to B with a reasonable assurance that 1) the trip is possible, and 2) the arrival time will be somewhat close to the original estimate. Just got off the phone with Amtrak reservations. Long story short, they know nothing about schedules or routes for the CZ beyond the next 24 hours. When I asked about passengers originating travel in Grand Junction, silence, then a strange statement that they expect service to be restored by October 9th! Will the trains stop in Grand Junction? Will they be rerouted through Wyoming? The agent didn't know.
Click to expand...

By October 9th, the original route will probably be inoperational. The Wyoming route should be operational and the train would take that, bypassing Grand Junction. You would have to ride a bus to SLC.

Again, no one knows for sure what's going to happen.


----------



## Chas

I got off the #6 California Zephyr today (9/17), coming from Sacramento. As mentioned, there is a bus bridge from Grand Junction to Denver, although I had to ride only to Glenwood Springs, where my car was stashed. The conductor said that service would shift to the Denver-Cheyenne route, but that flooded tracks north of Denver still needed to be inspected.

From today's _Denver Post_:



> The passenger train uses the Union Pacific rail line that is washed out in several spots between Denver and Crescent in Boulder County.
> 
> Union Pacific said it has been able to reroute the cargo shipments,
> 
> primarily coal, that move west from the Denver area.
> 
> "We're telling our customers to expect a 72-hour delay," Union Pacific spokesman Mark Davis said.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

You passed by me, Chas! Pretty sure I heard your train. Hope all goes well.


----------



## chakk

LD's Mom said:


> The train ride from Denver to Glenwood is scenic so my folks are flying into Denver this week with original plans to ride the train to Glenwood to visit me. Am I right to assume that the bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction would make a stop along the way in Glenwood? It is right off the Interstate. Thanks!


I am certain that the bus substitute between Denver and Grand Junction would stop in Glenwood. If it is a "special" (charter) bus for Amtrak passengers only, then it would stop at the Amtrak station in Glenwood.

NOTE that there is also a regular Greyhound service between Denver and Glenwood that does NOT stop at the Amtrak station. The regular Greyhound bus lets its passengers off at a nondescript Ride Glenwood shelter in West Glenwood near the Burger King. Been there; done that.


----------



## chakk

Robert Allen said:


> LD's Mom said:
> 
> 
> 
> The train ride from Denver to Glenwood is scenic so my folks are flying into Denver this week with original plans to ride the train to Glenwood to visit me. Am I right to assume that the bustitution between Denver and Grand Junction would make a stop along the way in Glenwood? It is right off the Interstate. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> I was told by an Amtrak agent Sunday afternoon, that there would be NO stop in Glenwood Springs, where I wanted to go. I would be bused from Denver to Grand Junction, then bused back to Glenwood Springs. Wouldn't it make better sense in this case to stop the bus on I-70 exit in G. S. and let people off RATHER than spend another 2 hours to G. Jctn and another 2 hours back to G. S.????????????????????????????????? I certainly think so. I'd be willing to walk from I-70 to the Amtrak station in G. S. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeez, are the inmates running the bus operation?????
Click to expand...

Methinks that Amtrak agent is smoking something. Or simply doesn't know anything about Colorado geography. There is NO WAY that the buses will drive through Glenwood on I-70 and NOT stop at the Glenwood station (either the Amtrak station or the West Glenwood stop that Greyhound uses for their regular buses) to de-bus and board passengers with Glenwood tickets.


----------



## chakk

Jessica said:


> Hi, My mother will be coming in from Sacramento Ca on the 30th of Sept. to Denver. Anyone have any idea on the chance of her being able to get into Denver on the train, or will she have to bus it from somewhere?


Too soon to say for certain whether the Union Pacific Railroad will be able to get their track reopened between Winter Park, Colorado and Denver by 30 Sept. As of today, the Amtrak website has blocked purchase of any train tickets from Grand Junction to Denver thru 28 Sept. BUT, the Amtrak website does offer train tickets from Grand Junction to Denver beginning 29 Sept.

So, perhaps Amtrak now believes that the tracks will be open again for their daily train beginning on 29 Sept. If this turns out to be true, then your mother would be able to take the train all the way from Sacramento departing 30 Sept to Denver.

If the tracks are not open by 30 Sept, then there are two possibilities: (1) your mom would ride train from Sacramento to Cheyenne, then transfer to a dedicated bus to Denver. (2) your mom would ride train from Sacramento to Grand Junction, then transfer to a dedicated bus to Denver. Option 1 would be faster than option 2. Both options would be slightly faster than the train-all-the-way option, but certainly not as beautiful a ride.


----------



## jebr

Joan said:


> We leave from Iowa Saturday, destination San Francisco. We were kind of hoping to have the bus connection going west and the trip through Wyoming coming back east the following week, just for a change of scenery.....but we will be happy to have the train trip at all! We missed one a few years back when the trains were cancelled altogether because of the flooding in the Midwest (couldn't get across the Nebraska/Iowa border, as I recall).


I remember that flood! If I recall, there were only two or three bridge crossings open at all...most were flooded out. I think I took the crossing up by Sioux City to get across then by car, though the I-80 crossing was also open if I recall. I-680 was closed (as were *many* smaller crossings there.)

That flood was a mess...hope it doesn't happen again in my lifetime.


----------



## Bilby_AUS

I am VERY glad that I found this thread, I will be coming to the US from Australia next week, and was just about to change my trip on the 28th sep from LA to CHI on the Southwest Chief to SF to CHI on the CZ route through to rockies as I have been told it is a more beautiful journey!

If I were already booked on the CZ I wouldnt change it, the bus ride between the two termination points seems like it would be a beautiful ride anyway (and shorter), and the chance to travel along a rail passage not commonly used is certainly something to write home about! What an adventure..


----------



## DaddyJim

So is the bus connection that they ran Monday between GJT and DEN not working as I see the #5 and #6 did not operate 09/17 or today 09/18


----------



## jis

Just because Train Status says "Service Disruption" does not necessarily mean that the train is not running.


----------



## Chas

Today's news from the Associated Press:

OMAHA, Neb. — Union Pacific railroad is repairing flood-damaged tracks in Colorado, and working to protect its main line crossing Nebraska as the floodwaters flow east into the Plains.


Union Pacific spokesman Mark Davis says flooding damaged about 20 miles of its line west over the mountains out of Denver and damaged another 19 miles of track between Denver and Cheyenne, Wyo.

Davis says the north-south track is expected to reopen Wednesday afternoon, but the line over the mountains will likely be closed for repairs until October 1.

UP is rerouting the 10 trains a day that normally use that line, and Amtrak is busing passengers over the mountains.

In Nebraska, UP raised seven miles of track near Ogallala 4 inches and piled rock along tracks between Julesburg, Colo., and Big Springs, Neb.


----------



## DaddyJim

What happened to the words ( late , early and cancelled )


----------



## Karl O

Saw a headline & info screen crawler on my local news today; that says Amtrak train passengers going west from DEN will be bussed to GJT due to track damage. For quite some. If UP fixes tracks between Greeley, CO & Cheyenne, WY ( and over to Utah)by Wednesday; then by Sunday when I travel to RNO on CZ; I will get to go this route instead. Amtrak used this route before; during the Coal Seam Fire about 4 years ago as soon as UP cleared it. I saw a post here, that showed part of the problem; it will be a huge challenge getting about 1.5 miles of track fixed just above tunnel 2 and before East Portal of Moffat. That section is was completely gone; track, roadbed, signaling & rock fall grid. For that matter the whole hillside is gone! Fixing track in flatlands is easy as long as roadbed is intact; track undermined in mountainous area where only a single track is there - much more complicated.


----------



## VentureForth

Could Amtrak make this the next Katrina/Sunset Ltd?


----------



## MikeM

VentureForth said:


> Could Amtrak make this the next Katrina/Sunset Ltd?


Doubt it. The old Moffat line is the real cash cow of the former D&RG. Coal trains from the Craig area come down the line and then continue eastbound on the old Kansas Pacific across Kansas to KC and points beyond. UP has it's faults, but not fixing storm damage quickly isn't one of them. They'll literally move mountains to get the line reopened quickly.


----------



## VentureForth

CSX fixed the SSL route quickly (albeit not a month). Amtrak didn't want to return.


----------



## fairviewroad

People travel from all over the world to ride the train through the Colorado Rockies.

They didn't come from all over the world to ride a train through Tallahassee.

So it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.


----------



## jebr

Plus Amtrak isn't losing quite as much money on the Zephyr as it did the Sunset Limited.


----------



## jis

Thought y'all might find this article interesting, even though it is not directly about rail, it has bearing on the state of rail travel in Colorado at present.

http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20130914/NEWS01/309140020/Portrait-historic-deluge-Colorado


----------



## Greg Janson

MikeM said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could Amtrak make this the next Katrina/Sunset Ltd?
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt it. The old Moffat line is the real cash cow of the former D&RG. Coal trains from the Craig area come down the line and then continue eastbound on the old Kansas Pacific across Kansas to KC and points beyond. UP has it's faults, but not fixing storm damage quickly isn't one of them. They'll literally move mountains to get the line reopened quickly.
Click to expand...

The first snows of the season are only a couple of weeks out. When the snow flies in that area, it's measured in feet. UP may be good at repairs, but my guess is it will be next Spring before that line is open again.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

I was in the CZ in Nov 2011 headed west and I did not see snow till we came out of Moffet tunnel. Though there were skiers nearby, I don't recall there being a lot of snow. Hopefully UP can get things repaired before any big snows.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Denver does have some occasional snowstorms in October. It's even worse up in the mountains. Snow might start up there in late September. A sudden mountain snowstorm in mid-October could not only cripple repair efforts, it could cause avanlanches that could wipe out even more track. Ensuing whiteout conditions could just stop everything until March.

See this:

http://www.thorntonweather.com/noaa/snow.php


----------



## AmtrakBlue

I don't doubt there could be lots of snow. I was just saying that, if they're lucky, it could be a "dry"/mild fall for them, as it seemed to be in 2011. Mother Nature is fickle.


----------



## guest

Realizing this has to be taken with several grains of salt, upon checking the long-term forecast for Fraser on Accuweather, which goes out 45 days, no snow is mentioned at all until the last week of October. It's been my experience that their predictions even that far out are fairly accurate when it comes to the general trend. Hopefully this is indeed accurate.


----------



## Agent

DaddyJim said:


> So is the bus connection that they ran Monday between GJT and DEN not working as I see the #5 and #6 did not operate 09/17 or today 09/18


I can confirm that Amtrak is still running #5 from Chicago. Here's #5(17) at Agency, Iowa (running approximately 37 minutes late):



I have no idea why these trains need to be under a service disruption when they are running normally Chicago to Denver and Emeryville to Grand Junction.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Yes, I can also confirm that the western section is running, which is obvious anyway. I've been hearing that K5LA sounding long-long-short-long a bunch of times near RNO and I've also spotted it. I don't usually carry a camera around, so no picture. But it's running, that's for sure.


----------



## DaddyJim

Thanks for the updates The wife and I leave this Sunday CLT to MDW on Southwest catch the EB to SEA for couple days and then SC to EMY for a couple of days and then catch the CZ 10/03 back to CHI for the flight home on Sunday 10/06 Would like to travel on the CZ route across the Mts and tunnels of Co as this is our first but not looking good for this trip, but we will sit back and enjoy.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> Thought y'all might find this article interesting, even though it is not directly about rail, it has bearing on the state of rail travel in Colorado at present.
> 
> http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20130914/NEWS01/309140020/Portrait-historic-deluge-Colorado


Thanks for the link jis! A good article that puts this 'weather event' into perspective. In may ways - through timing and good dispatching - Amtrak got very lucky. Imagine if either 5 or 6 or both got stuck in the mountains. Even if they had been sitting at a 'safe' location, the passengers and crew would have had it a lot worse than say sitting at DEN for hours. Then there would be the problem of having a consist or two stuck for who knows how long, the bad press, etc. Those folks who 'threw up their hands' saying "Never again!" in DEN seem pretty foolish in hindsight.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Agent said:


> DaddyJim said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is the bus connection that they ran Monday between GJT and DEN not working as I see the #5 and #6 did not operate 09/17 or today 09/18
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea why these trains need to be under a service disruption when they are running normally Chicago to Denver and Emeryville to Grand Junction.
Click to expand...

Um, because Amtrak can, and often does, suck when it comes to communicating with the public? :blink:


----------



## Guinness835

At the metropolitan lounge in Chicago. Taking the zephyr today. They're saying today's zephyr will be taking the Wyoming detour route. No more bus bridge.


----------



## Slasharoo

Guinness835, let us know how it goes. We will be on that train next week. thanks in advance.


----------



## Guest

Guinness835 said:


> At the metropolitan lounge in Chicago. Taking the zephyr today. They're saying today's zephyr will be taking the Wyoming detour route. No more bus bridge.


I wonder how they will take care of folks like us who have tickets from Grand Junction to Chicago early next week.


----------



## jis

Call Amtrak and ask. Most likely bus or van from Grand Junction to Denver. But as I said, call and ask to be sure.


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## Slasharoo

Would they go Chicago to Denver, then up to Cheyenne and around?


----------



## jis

They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha

jis said:


> They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.


_*UP *_may just have to put these on the point to get the _*Zephyrs*_ safely and quickly through the Wasatch!


----------



## Bob Dylan

train orders has a Post that quotes an article from The Denver Post where a spokesperson for UP says that they expect to have the Track Work in the Mountains up to the Moffet Tunne done in a Couple of Weeks!l!  It goes on to say that now that the Denver to Cheyenne Route(actuallyvia the Borie Cutoff) but close for todays Media!) is Open that they can run Trains carrying Fill down to Denver to start Work on the Mountain Route! A total of 38 Trains a day (36 UP Freights and the 2 Amtrak Zephyrs) will be running from Denver to Cheyene(Borie) till the work on the Mountain Route is Completed! It doesnt mention the Bus Bridge from Grand Junction to Denver for the Stations on this Route??


----------



## Slasharoo

jis said:


> They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.


Thanks. We will have to park ourselves in the SSL to get views of the front range since our roomette is on the right side of the train.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Slasharoo said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. We will have to park ourselves in the SSL to get views of the front range since our roomette is on the right side of the train.
Click to expand...

You won't know which side of the train your roomette is on until you board. Superliners can face either way.


----------



## Notelvis

If your roomette is on the right side of the train, you will be able to see the front range from youor room as you approach Denver!


----------



## chakk

AmtrakBlue said:


> I was in the CZ in Nov 2011 headed west and I did not see snow till we came out of Moffet tunnel. Though there were skiers nearby, I don't recall there being a lot of snow. Hopefully UP can get things repaired before any big snows.


The line will be reopened well before any massive snows. And, in the words of Men's Warehouse ex-CEO George Zimmerman, "I guarantee it."


----------



## chakk

DaddyJim said:


> Thanks for the updates The wife and I leave this Sunday CLT to MDW on Southwest catch the EB to SEA for couple days and then SC to EMY for a couple of days and then catch the CZ 10/03 back to CHI for the flight home on Sunday 10/06 Would like to travel on the CZ route across the Mts and tunnels of Co as this is our first but not looking good for this trip, but we will sit back and enjoy.


As of today, the Amtrak website is still blocking ticket sales to stations on the regular route through Colorado. That situation might change before October 3, but at the moment, my guess is that your CZ will take the Wyoming detour.


----------



## jis

OlympianHiawatha said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.
> 
> 
> 
> _*UP *_may just have to put these on the point to get the _*Zephyrs*_ safely and quickly through the Wasatch!
Click to expand...

Fortunately 2 P42s generate almost the same HP as the third generation GTELs and can run at a considerably higher speed. Where they fall short is in tractive effort, by a third, but that is not that important for a 10 - 12 car Superliner train.


----------



## jis

Slasharoo said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> They won't go to Cheyenne. They will use the Borie cutoff. Going to Cheyenne would involve a backup move. No reason to do that. They will go through Laramie, Rock Springs and Green River in Wyoming then onto Ogden UT through Echo Canyon across the Wasatch Range. Green River is the crew change point.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. We will have to park ourselves in the SSL to get views of the front range since our roomette is on the right side of the train.
Click to expand...

If it takes the Wyoming detour then coming into Denver from the east you will see the front range on your right, and departing towards Cheyenne (Borie) you will see it on your left. AFAIR through Weber and Echo Canyons across the Wasatch in one of them left side is better and in the other the right side is better. Across the Continental Divide, side does not matter much.
From Ogden to Salt Lake City, the spectacular Wasatch Range will be on your left.


----------



## Guest

*Dave's Depot Grand Junction Colorado - Waiting for account to be approved*

In the mean time YES WE CARRY COKE PRODUCTS!! LOL And we know Amtrak only had Pepsi, so we are always stocked up on Coke. Also all kind of drinks, snack, sundries and souvenirs, including the very popular Roue Books.

Sadly, today is our last day open for a few weeks (hopefully that is all) while they fix the section seen in all the pictures above. Today is the last day for the bus-bridge, as thy Wyoming route will be open and running starting tomorrow. We are TOLD, by UP, that it will only take a few weeks to have the Moffat Section repaired. I do not see how that is possible, but I do know they want that section repaired as fast as possible. Hopefully I will be able to get more information in the future from this discussion board. Thanks to all who post and share in here.

Happy Rails!


----------



## leemell

A report says that UP expects to have the route open in about two weeks. They will be running 38 trains a day up there with fill for the wash out.


----------



## MrFSS

Guest said:


> *Dave's Depot Grand Junction Colorado - Waiting for account to be approved*
> 
> In the mean time YES WE CARRY COKE PRODUCTS!! LOL And we know Amtrak only had Pepsi, so we are always stocked up on Coke. Also all kind of drinks, snack, sundries and souvenirs, including the very popular Roue Books.
> 
> Sadly, today is our last day open for a few weeks (hopefully that is all) while they fix the section seen in all the pictures above. Today is the last day for the bus-bridge, as thy Wyoming route will be open and running starting tomorrow. We are TOLD, by UP, that it will only take a few weeks to have the Moffat Section repaired. I do not see how that is possible, but I do know they want that section repaired as fast as possible. Hopefully I will be able to get more information in the future from this discussion board. Thanks to all who post and share in here.
> 
> Happy Rails!


And, your registration has been approved. Look forward to your updates.


----------



## Dave'sDepot

Engineer, that is good to know! They will need a LOT of fill for that spot

OK, we are now officially on here lol. Hopefully it will only take a few weeks to get this line back in action. We will be hurting with no business while they work on it. A little information on our store. We are (or so we are told) the only store within a station, on the California Zephyr Routh. We carry drinks, (COKE PRODUCTS too! ), snacks, sundries and all kinds of Colorad, Amtrak and train related souvenirs including the VERY popular route books. . Hats, t-shirts, magnets post cards and shot glasses as well. And lots more. Free coffee every day. We sure hope to see some of you through the store once this route through Colorado is back in action.https://www.facebook.com/DavesDepotGrandJunctionColorado


----------



## getbent

^ I like Dave'sDepot...he's got spirit.

I know that Wyoming's route pales in comparison to Colorado, but is anyone else slightly excited to see Amtrak on a historic line like this?

EDIT: Just saw another thread...looks like this is more common than I realized!


----------



## Slasharoo

getbent said:


> ^ I like Dave'sDepot...he's got spirit.
> 
> I know that Wyoming's route pales in comparison to Colorado, but is anyone else slightly excited to see Amtrak on a historic line like this?


I am. The book I picked out for next week's trip is about the building of the transcontinental RR. Nice timing. Sad for my wife who hasn't done the Colorado route, though.

And Amtrak Blue, I should have mentioned that we are in the transdorm, so we have the advantage of knowing which way we're viewing.


----------



## Beth

I'm so happy to see that the bus detour is over with! I leaving Sunday for Chicago and am now feeling more at ease about the trip. This is the first time I'm making it solo, so I was getting freaked out at having to switch back and forth between buses and trains.

I am considering myself lucky to take the other route on the train now, since others have mentioned it is beautiful too.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

The Overland Route is very pretty, but don't expect the same, in your face, dramatic scenery as the regular route. Lots of distant mountain views - while the deer and the antelope play near the train. Still, a very nice ride and MUCH, MUCH better than a bustitution.

We await your trip reports!


----------



## jis

The Davy Crockett said:


> The Overland Route is very pretty, but don't expect the same, in your face, dramatic scenery as the regular route. Lots of distant mountain views - while the deer and the antelope play near the train. Still, a very nice ride and MUCH, MUCH better than a bustitution.
> 
> We await your trip reports!


Except across the Wasatch through the Weber and Echo Canyons in Utah, where the mountains are not that distant.


----------



## Ringfinder

I just wanted to Thank everyone for there help on our train trip through Colorado! At Denver we were put on a bus and 4 hours later we arrived at Grand Juntion. The trip was beautiful, but it was on a bus and not Amtrak! At Grand Juntion we were given $15 voucher and we ate at a very nice restaurant near the station. I recommend if you are looking for snacks for your train trip, you purchase them in the train depot, Very, Very reasonable prices and some neat souvenirs!

We are now heading for Los Angles not sure of that spelling, LOL on the coast Starlight to LA.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Overland Route is very pretty, but don't expect the same, in your face, dramatic scenery as the regular route. Lots of distant mountain views - while the deer and the antelope play near the train. Still, a very nice ride and MUCH, MUCH better than a bustitution.
> 
> We await your trip reports!
> 
> 
> 
> Except across the Wasatch through the Weber and Echo Canyons in Utah, where the mountains are not that distant.
Click to expand...

When I took it in 1974 I was disappointed in it. Its not nearly as dramatic as the old DRG&W.


----------



## Beth

Since I took the normal route last year, I don't mind the detour as it's a change in scenery. It's even better now that I don't have to leave the comfort of my roomette while doing so! I have never been to Wyoming so this will be a welcomed adventure!


----------



## Joan

Beth, we'll be arriving in Emeryville Sunday afternoon, so I'll think of you when our trains pass en route! I hope we all have wonderful trips.


----------



## Amtrak George

Wifey and I have ridden both routes from Denver to Salt Lake...On our honeymoon in 1981 we rode Mem-Chi-Den on Amtrak, then the next day Rio Grande Zephyr (pre Amtrak, with F units and domes and a diner serving Rainbow Trout) to Salt Lake, then Amtrak CZ on the return through Wyoming. Each line has its own advantages, excitement and beauty although I must admit the Rio Grande line (now UP) through the Rockies has it hands down for spectacular scenery.

Kudos to Amtrak and UP for keeping the train running through all this adversity. A few years ago they might have just cancelled it with no alternate transportation available. Hopefully this trend of keeping trains running will continue.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Beth said:


> I'm so happy to see that the bus detour is over with! I leaving Sunday for Chicago and am now feeling more at ease about the trip. This is the first time I'm making it solo, so I was getting freaked out at having to switch back and forth between buses and trains.
> 
> I am considering myself lucky to take the other route on the train now, since others have mentioned it is beautiful too.


Actually, the DEN-GJT bustiture was a shortcut, not a detour. The train right now is detouring through Wyoming. You will enjoy seeing Wyoming, very few rail passengers still get to see Wyoming. I've never ridden the Wyoming rail route, but I know what it looks like because I've done a very similar route on my, um, avatar.


----------



## Katie

My husband and I will be boarding the train in Denver on Saturday morning...or so we hope! Am relived to hear that the train is still running and there are no more buses BUT at the same time I'm gutted that our dream honeymoon trip has suffered another knock back - I was so desperate for my husband to see the Rockies that we booked this train journey AND a balloon ride over Boulder which was totally cancelled due to the landing sites being lakes. I shall be keeping my fingers crossed that nothing else develops from here!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Katie said:


> My husband and I will be boarding the train in Denver on Saturday morning...or so we hope! Am relived to hear that the train is still running and there are no more buses BUT at the same time I'm gutted that our dream honeymoon trip has suffered another knock back - I was so desperate for my husband to see the Rockies that we booked this train journey AND a balloon ride over Boulder which was totally cancelled due to the landing sites being lakes. I shall be keeping my fingers crossed that nothing else develops from here!


Hopefully ya'll will enjoy the Ride up to Wyoming and across Utah to Reno (most of Utah and Nevada will be in the Dark), then the Great Scenery through the Sierra Nevadas between Reno and Sacramento! Too bad about the Balloon Ride  , I think the Scenery in the Bay Area will help make up for it (please Ride a Ferry while you're there!) Keep us Posted, for sure your Honeymoon is Memory Book stuff!


----------



## Bbinc

Thanks to everyone here, we are from Australia and booked the CZ eight months ago Denver to SF looking forward to the CO Rockies. Reading all your posts has kept us informed, and I have to say I was impressed when I rang Amtrak today to enquire about next Wednesday's trip - no messing around - fast clear answers - it's a day to day proposition at the moment, but the plan is the Wyoming route ex Denver but we should check back 48 to 24 hrs ahead. Without asking I was also advised because of the disruptions a full refund was available if the new arrangements didn't suit us.

With all the great info here, we are now happy to go with the WY route (a natural disaster is just that and many folks have had their lives turned upside down) . If it changes to bus, or doesn't run the we know we can claim a refund and fly if we have to. Shame we'll miss the Rockies and Dave's depot at Grand Junction though!


----------



## Trainmans daughter

Bbinc said:


> Thanks to everyone here, we are from Australia and booked the CZ eight months ago Denver to SF looking forward to the CO Rockies. Reading all your posts has kept us informed, and I have to say I was impressed when I rang Amtrak today to enquire about next Wednesday's trip - no messing around - fast clear answers - it's a day to day proposition at the moment, but the plan is the Wyoming route ex Denver but we should check back 48 to 24 hrs ahead. Without asking I was also advised because of the disruptions a full refund was available if the new arrangements didn't suit us.
> 
> With all the great info here, we are now happy to go with the WY route (a natural disaster is just that and many folks have had their lives turned upside down) . If it changes to bus, or doesn't run the we know we can claim a refund and fly if we have to. Shame we'll miss the Rockies and Dave's depot at Grand Junction though!


You have a great attitude. This is a natural disaster and your thoughts are with the people directly affected by it--the people who live in the area, Dave in Grand Junction, etc. Thanks for not being angry about possible changes to your vacation!
Our first Amtrak trip was detoured through the Wyoming route. We loved every moment of it. While not as dramatic as the Colorado route, the open plains, the wide expanses, the wooden snow fences, the deer and the antelope roaming (now that song is stuck in my head!), made a huge and positive impression on us. Sit back and enjoy a sight that few get to see these days.


----------



## railiner

The Davy Crockett said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Overland Route is very pretty, but don't expect the same, in your face, dramatic scenery as the regular route. Lots of distant mountain views - while the deer and the antelope play near the train. Still, a very nice ride and MUCH, MUCH better than a bustitution.
> 
> We await your trip reports!
> 
> 
> 
> Except across the Wasatch through the Weber and Echo Canyons in Utah, where the mountains are not that distant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I took it in 1974 I was disappointed in it. Its not nearly as dramatic as the old DRG&W.
Click to expand...

Unless you are on a "once-in-a lifetime" trip across the US, perhaps coming from overseas, etc., I consider riding any rare mileage detour a blessing....you get to see what few do, and of course, you always can go back anytime to see the regular route in the future.

The transcontinental railway offers many scenic vista's, as mentioned. And it is steeped in history. Passing thru towns like Laramie, Medicine Bow, Rawlins, Rock Springs, Green River, Fort Bridger, Evanston, and Ogden........climbing Sherman Hill and its tunnels, meeting endless freight trains at unbelievable frequencies, plenty to see!


----------



## jis

railiner said:


> Unless you are on a "once-in-a lifetime" trip across the US, perhaps coming from overseas, etc., I consider riding any rare mileage detour a blessing....you get to see what few do, and of course, you always can go back anytime to see the regular route in the future.
> 
> The transcontinental railway offers many scenic vista's, as mentioned. And it is steeped in history. Passing thru towns like Laramie, Medicine Bow, Rawlins, Rock Springs, Green River, Fort Bridger, Evanston, and Ogden........climbing Sherman Hill and its tunnels, meeting endless freight trains at unbelievable frequencies, plenty to see!


I agree completely. I love the old transcon through Wyoming. Whenever I go for work to Fort Collins, I usually tack on a weekend day or two to drive up to the old transcon for railfanning around Sherman Hill. You want to see top quality triple track action on top quality, well maintained smooth track? that is where you go. Laramie is my favorite hangout place on those random weekend trips.


----------



## Golden grrl

jis said:


> I agree completely. I love the old transcon through Wyoming. Whenever I go for work to Fort Collins, I usually tack on a weekend day or two to drive up to the old transcon for railfanning around Sherman Hill. You want to see top quality triple track action on top quality, well maintained smooth track? that is where you go. Laramie is my favorite hangout place on those random weekend trips.


Is UP still running old steam loco #8444 for the excursion trips around the time of Cheyenne Frontier Days?

I've been in that engine and the passenger cars, but only during the exhibit when it's parked in Cheyenne. Tickets for the ride went mostly to news people and the rich and powerful of Cheyenne and Denver and UP.

Sherman Hill was a favored point for us common folk to watch those special trains. You can see the black smoke up in the sky way before the train flies on by your location. Around two decades ago, my spouse nearly got run over when the oversized pickup of some eager tourist busted right through a crossing barrier on the cattle guard, all to see that steam engine.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

I doubt many who stop by here for information on what is going on with 5&6 foam like some here do. If folks are expecting the same scenery as they get going through the mountains in Colorado they are going to be disappointed. Its better to lower expectatioons and then have those expectations exceeded. Gosh, I guess when I was fourteen I wasn't a 'true' foamer  ...when it came to trains. I had other things on my mind. :giggle:


----------



## Guinness835

We are on the 5 currently at the Denver station. We are the first train to use the Wyoming detour today so I am excited about that as I've been through the normal route several times. They are bussing anyone who's destinations are between Denver and Salt Lake City. For anyone going between grand junction and Denver you get bussed from Denver. Any stops between grand junction and Salt Lake City get bussed from SLC. We are going to emeryville so being able to stay on the train and not do a bus bridge is fantastic!


----------



## Golden grrl

The Davy Crockett said:


> I doubt many who stop by here for information on what is going on with 5&6 foam like some here do. If folks are expecting the* same *scenery as they get going through the mountains in Colorado they are going to be disappointed.


You make a good point, Davy.

Some of the riders may live around Denver or Salt Lake where they get to experience mountains daily. I'd think that for such people, they might appreciate the understated beauty of the high-plains and desert of Wyoming as something different from their daily scenery of the Colorado Rockies or the Wasatch front.

Every time I've been on the CZ, I've met someone from Down Under. My guess is that some of the Aussies riding the Wyo route will be amazed to see America's version of the outback. They'll really love it if they get to see working cowboys riding near the tracks [not unusual in my experience of the 1990s]. The trip will not be what was expected when they signed up for the CZ, but the riders still see an awesome part of North America.


----------



## jshell

jis said:


> If it takes the Wyoming detour then coming into Denver from the east you will see the front range on your right, and departing towards Cheyenne (Borie) you will see it on your left. AFAIR through Weber and Echo Canyons across the Wasatch in one of them left side is better and in the other the right side is better. Across the Continental Divide, side does not matter much.
> 
> From Ogden to Salt Lake City, the spectacular Wasatch Range will be on your left.



Does anyone know how close it comes to Ogden's old train depot when going this way? There's a cool train museum there that includes one of those UP giant turbine GTEL engines. Obviously there'd be no time to get out and play on the trains since Ogden isn't a stop, but for train nerds it could be fun to stop in Salt Lake and then ride our commuter rail FrontRunner service up to Ogden to see those.


----------



## Notelvis

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Beth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so happy to see that the bus detour is over with! I leaving Sunday for Chicago and am now feeling more at ease about the trip. This is the first time I'm making it solo, so I was getting freaked out at having to switch back and forth between buses and trains.
> 
> I am considering myself lucky to take the other route on the train now, since others have mentioned it is beautiful too.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the DEN-GJT bustiture was a shortcut, not a detour. The train right now is detouring through Wyoming. You will enjoy seeing Wyoming, very few rail passengers still get to see Wyoming. I've never ridden the Wyoming rail route, but I know what it looks like because I've done a very similar route on my, um, avatar.
Click to expand...

Swadian, if you have time you ought to book a trip to Denver sometime in the next 2-4 weeks. You'll be able to get the rail mileage through Wyoming after all.


----------



## getbent

Katie said:


> My husband and I will be boarding the train in Denver on Saturday morning...or so we hope! Am relived to hear that the train is still running and there are no more buses BUT at the same time I'm gutted that our dream honeymoon trip has suffered another knock back - I was so desperate for my husband to see the Rockies that we booked this train journey AND a balloon ride over Boulder which was totally cancelled due to the landing sites being lakes. I shall be keeping my fingers crossed that nothing else develops from here!


My honeymoon was supposed to feature the train from Seattle all the way to LA. The Thursday before our wedding in January 2005, Amtrak called and apologized that the tracks had been hit by a mudslide. They could put us on buses and other trains, or we could be refunded for a portion of the trip. We chose to get off in Sacramento and rented a car. The dining car attendant gave us the heads up to rent our car and drive and don't dawdle...which was excellent advice as we hit the lull in LA traffic. It was a fantastic drive.

I'd like to think rough honeymoon equals happy marriage. 



Golden grrl said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely. I love the old transcon through Wyoming. Whenever I go for work to Fort Collins, I usually tack on a weekend day or two to drive up to the old transcon for railfanning around Sherman Hill. You want to see top quality triple track action on top quality, well maintained smooth track? that is where you go. Laramie is my favorite hangout place on those random weekend trips.
> 
> 
> 
> Is UP still running old steam loco #8444 for the excursion trips around the time of Cheyenne Frontier Days?
> 
> I've been in that engine and the passenger cars, but only during the exhibit when it's parked in Cheyenne. Tickets for the ride went mostly to news people and the rich and powerful of Cheyenne and Denver and UP.
> 
> Sherman Hill was a favored point for us common folk to watch those special trains. You can see the black smoke up in the sky way before the train flies on by your location. Around two decades ago, my spouse nearly got run over when the oversized pickup of some eager tourist busted right through a crossing barrier on the cattle guard, all to see that steam engine.
Click to expand...

The Denver Post still runs a train during Frontier Days. http://cfdtrain.com/CFDTrain/Information.html


----------



## Agent

Golden grrl said:


> Is UP still running old steam loco #8444 for the excursion trips around the time of Cheyenne Frontier Days?
> 
> I've been in that engine and the passenger cars, but only during the exhibit when it's parked in Cheyenne. Tickets for the ride went mostly to news people and the rich and powerful of Cheyenne and Denver and UP.
> 
> Sherman Hill was a favored point for us common folk to watch those special trains. You can see the black smoke up in the sky way before the train flies on by your location. Around two decades ago, my spouse nearly got run over when the oversized pickup of some eager tourist busted right through a crossing barrier on the cattle guard, all to see that steam engine.



Yes, they are. Although it has long been renumbered to its original number 844:


----------



## jis

jshell said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it takes the Wyoming detour then coming into Denver from the east you will see the front range on your right, and departing towards Cheyenne (Borie) you will see it on your left. AFAIR through Weber and Echo Canyons across the Wasatch in one of them left side is better and in the other the right side is better. Across the Continental Divide, side does not matter much.
> 
> From Ogden to Salt Lake City, the spectacular Wasatch Range will be on your left.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how close it comes to Ogden's old train depot when going this way? There's a cool train museum there that includes one of those UP giant turbine GTEL engines. Obviously there'd be no time to get out and play on the trains since Ogden isn't a stop, but for train nerds it could be fun to stop in Salt Lake and then ride our commuter rail FrontRunner service up to Ogden to see those.
Click to expand...

Normally a CZ on detour will not go anywhere near the classic Ogden Station. It will take the bypass leg of the Wye after it comes out of the Wasatch and hang a sharp left towards Salt lake City.


----------



## Golden grrl

Agent said:


> Yes, they are. Although it has long been renumbered to its original number 844:


Sigh.

Showing my age to call it 8444. Though I'm not quite so old as the loco.


----------



## SubwayNut

There is an official Press Release for the detour, added at some point today, it refers to early October and further notice.

If only I still lived in Colorado, guess you could do it in one very long weekend without any real sleep DEN to SLC (for 3 hours if things are on time in the wee hours of the morning) and back to DEN. That would be me!


----------



## Guinness835

We are currently westbound on train 5 and I can confirm there are no smoke stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. I'm not a smoker, but if you are that's about 13 hours between breaks. The scenery in Wyoming is more plains, but there are a lot of antelope! Still better than the bus bridge. We left Denver about 9:45 am and are currently near Rock Springs, WY. We're told we will be in SLC about 10:30 pm.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Guinness835 said:


> We are currently westbound on train 5 and I can confirm there are no smoke stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. I'm not a smoker, but if you are that's about 13 hours between breaks. The scenery in Wyoming is more plains, but there are a lot of antelope! Still better than the bus bridge. We left Denver about 9:45 am and are currently near Rock Springs, WY. We're told we will be in SLC about 10:30 pm.


Thanks for the report! :hi: Keep us posted!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Looks like youll have an Hour in SLC if #5 Arives @10:30PM! Theres Nothing around the Station but you can Stretch your Legs and get some Mounbtain Air! Glad the Antelope are still in Wyoming, they are disappearing Fast on the Sunset Route, used to be Millions of them!  Get ready for the Sierra Nevada Scenery between Reno and Sacramento, especilly the Donner Pass/Lake to Truckee part of the Route! I personaly think its better than the Glennwoood Canyon Scenery!!!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

railiner said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Overland Route is very pretty, but don't expect the same, in your face, dramatic scenery as the regular route. Lots of distant mountain views - while the deer and the antelope play near the train. Still, a very nice ride and MUCH, MUCH better than a bustitution.
> 
> We await your trip reports!
> 
> 
> 
> Except across the Wasatch through the Weber and Echo Canyons in Utah, where the mountains are not that distant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I took it in 1974 I was disappointed in it. Its not nearly as dramatic as the old DRG&W.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are on a "once-in-a lifetime" trip across the US, perhaps coming from overseas, etc., I consider riding any rare mileage detour a blessing....you get to see what few do, and of course, you always can go back anytime to see the regular route in the future.
> 
> The transcontinental railway offers many scenic vista's, as mentioned. And it is steeped in history. Passing thru towns like Laramie, Medicine Bow, Rawlins, Rock Springs, Green River, Fort Bridger, Evanston, and Ogden........climbing Sherman Hill and its tunnels, meeting endless freight trains at unbelievable frequencies, plenty to see!
Click to expand...

I do agree, I've taken the regular CZ route a lot, so I really want to ride through Wyoming now. You said before that you used to have ridden every passenger train in the US, back in the 1970s, so I bet you've ridden the regular route many times as well. I know Wyomin's desolate, but I've never seen it from a train.



The Davy Crockett said:


> I doubt many who stop by here for information on what is going on with 5&6 foam like some here do. If folks are expecting the same scenery as they get going through the mountains in Colorado they are going to be disappointed. Its better to lower expectatioons and then have those expectations exceeded. Gosh, I guess when I was fourteen I wasn't a 'true' foamer  ...when it came to trains. I had other things on my mind. :giggle:


Not much guests hanging around here right now. We have 3 users and 1 guest. The users are probably interested int he detour, whether for rare mileage, rare scenery, a historical ride, or what else.



Golden grrl said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt many who stop by here for information on what is going on with 5&6 foam like some here do. If folks are expecting the* same *scenery as they get going through the mountains in Colorado they are going to be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good point, Davy.
> 
> Some of the riders may live around Denver or Salt Lake where they get to experience mountains daily. I'd think that for such people, they might appreciate the understated beauty of the high-plains and desert of Wyoming as something different from their daily scenery of the Colorado Rockies or the Wasatch front.
> 
> Every time I've been on the CZ, I've met someone from Down Under. My guess is that some of the Aussies riding the Wyo route will be amazed to see America's version of the outback. They'll really love it if they get to see working cowboys riding near the tracks [not unusual in my experience of the 1990s]. The trip will not be what was expected when they signed up for the CZ, but the riders still see an awesome part of North America.
Click to expand...

I used to live in Denver. That's why I'm always not that excited to ride the CZ's regular route. Now I live _near_ RNO, so I'm pretty much staring at the Sierras all day. That's why the CZ has really lost it's allure to me except hearing its horn every day. I'd rather ride the SWC again before Raton gets cut.



Notelvis said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so happy to see that the bus detour is over with! I leaving Sunday for Chicago and am now feeling more at ease about the trip. This is the first time I'm making it solo, so I was getting freaked out at having to switch back and forth between buses and trains.
> 
> I am considering myself lucky to take the other route on the train now, since others have mentioned it is beautiful too.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the DEN-GJT bustiture was a shortcut, not a detour. The train right now is detouring through Wyoming. You will enjoy seeing Wyoming, very few rail passengers still get to see Wyoming. I've never ridden the Wyoming rail route, but I know what it looks like because I've done a very similar route on my, um, avatar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Swadian, if you have time you ought to book a trip to Denver sometime in the next 2-4 weeks. You'll be able to get the rail mileage through Wyoming after all.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no can do. I just came here from DEN in June and I don't have that much time or money available. I'm trying to save moeny for my international trip next year. So another missed oppurtunity. Man, every time the CZ detours, I can't do it for one reason or another! Oh well.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Wait, hey, the 5 (19) was just reported at GSC! What's going on? It didn't stop anywhere DEN-GSC. Is the bus bridge back again or is the Moffat line repaired?


----------



## Bob Dylan

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Wait, hey, the 5 (19) was just reported at GSC! What's going on? It didn't stop anywhere DEN-GSC. Is the bus bridge back again or is the Moffat line repaired?


 Yeah, I noticed that too on the Status Maps! I know UP does Fast Track Work But not this Fast!  (when it affects their Freights!)

Would Amtrak Track Bustitutions or is this just a Computer Glitch??? :help:


----------



## Guinness835

I'm on the #5 and I can tell you we went nowhere near GSC!!! It is cool riding such a historic route as this detour. I've also never seen so many freight trains as I have on this detour!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Guinness835 said:


> I'm on the #5 and I can tell you we went nowhere near GSC!!! It is cool riding such a historic route as this detour. I've also never seen so many freight trains as I have on this detour!


Must be a glitch then. They should revise the stauts ASAP. Dumb computers!


----------



## Guinness835

We're about 3 hours from SLC.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Guinness835 said:


> We're about 3 hours from SLC.


OK, I'll see if I can hear you coming through tomorrow morning. On the weekdays I rarely hear the 5 becuase I have to go to work, but tomorrow is Saturday.


----------



## domefoamer

Just to add to idle speculation, tonight's local news just reported that 80% of US 34 is damaged or entirely gone. Two other neighboring major roads are about 50% wiped out. So I'd be pleasantly surprised if this photo from the Tunnel District shows the only major washout on the line. Just the easiest to spot from public roads, perhaps.

The washout pictured here looks so enormous! It looks like several hundred feet of material must be replaced, both vertically and horizontally. How is that accomplished? You can't just back up hopper cars to the cliff and dump fill onto a steep, unstable slope-- can you? Or would it be better to build a bridge, piered to bedrock?


----------



## Beth

Now that this reroute is in place, does the CZ still arrive in Chicago on time? Is it early, late?


----------



## railiner

Guinness835 said:


> We are currently westbound on train 5 and I can confirm there are no smoke stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. I'm not a smoker, but if you are that's about 13 hours between breaks. The scenery in Wyoming is more plains, but there are a lot of antelope! Still better than the bus bridge. We left Denver about 9:45 am and are currently near Rock Springs, WY. We're told we will be in SLC about 10:30 pm.


IIRC, they change crews at Green River....might have time for a quick break there.....


----------



## railiner

Golden grrl said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely. I love the old transcon through Wyoming. Whenever I go for work to Fort Collins, I usually tack on a weekend day or two to drive up to the old transcon for railfanning around Sherman Hill. You want to see top quality triple track action on top quality, well maintained smooth track? that is where you go. Laramie is my favorite hangout place on those random weekend trips.
> 
> 
> 
> Is UP still running old steam loco #8444 for the excursion trips around the time of Cheyenne Frontier Days?
> 
> I've been in that engine and the passenger cars, but only during the exhibit when it's parked in Cheyenne. Tickets for the ride went mostly to news people and the rich and powerful of Cheyenne and Denver and UP.
> 
> Sherman Hill was a favored point for us common folk to watch those special trains. You can see the black smoke up in the sky way before the train flies on by your location. Around two decades ago, my spouse nearly got run over when the oversized pickup of some eager tourist busted right through a crossing barrier on the cattle guard, all to see that steam engine.
Click to expand...




Golden grrl said:


> Agent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they are. Although it has long been renumbered to its original number 844:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Showing my age to call it 8444. Though I'm not quite so old as the loco.
Click to expand...

When I lived in the Denver area, during the '70's and '80's, I was an active member of the Intermountain Chapter of the NRHS. We ran an annual steam excursion from Denver to Cheyenne or Laramie or Sterling for many years. As part of the chapter crew running the event, I received the "high privilege and distinct honor" of several cab rides in the 844 and the 3985 during those memorable excursions. Memories that will stay with me forever....


----------



## jis

railiner said:


> Guinness835 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are currently westbound on train 5 and I can confirm there are no smoke stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. I'm not a smoker, but if you are that's about 13 hours between breaks. The scenery in Wyoming is more plains, but there are a lot of antelope! Still better than the bus bridge. We left Denver about 9:45 am and are currently near Rock Springs, WY. We're told we will be in SLC about 10:30 pm.
> 
> 
> 
> IIRC, they change crews at Green River....might have time for a quick break there.....
Click to expand...

As I mentioned earlier, only if it happens to stop at the track by the platform. not otherwise.


----------



## Guinness835

The stop in green river is for crew change only. They didn't let anyone off. We are currently on time and next scheduled stop is Reno.


----------



## jebr

railiner said:


> Guinness835 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are currently westbound on train 5 and I can confirm there are no smoke stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. I'm not a smoker, but if you are that's about 13 hours between breaks. The scenery in Wyoming is more plains, but there are a lot of antelope! Still better than the bus bridge. We left Denver about 9:45 am and are currently near Rock Springs, WY. We're told we will be in SLC about 10:30 pm.
> 
> 
> 
> IIRC, they change crews at Green River....might have time for a quick break there.....
Click to expand...

Last year when I went over the reroute they had no smoke breaks. Should've bought some nicotine patches and sold them for a pretty penny...


----------



## Honda1

I've been following this thread for while, having had a trip planned from Iowa to Glenwood Springs, CO. It has been very informative and there are obviously some serious train buffs here.

I have a question. How are some of you able to get information about what is going on, in the complete absence of info from AMTRAK??? 

I'm sorry I missed my first train trip in nearly 50 years, but didn't have the time freedom to await a solution. That and the refusal to stop the bus in Glenwood Springs on the way from Denver to Grand Junction. Probably a minor inconvenience in view of the suffering and loss of those living on the front range, but the policy is ridiculous!!! Hopefully I get another chance to make this trip through the Glenwood Canyon....

Thanks for all your information, stories of your trip or travels and your opinions....

TheHonda1


----------



## Guinness835

I'm current on the #5 so I've been providing updates. Our sleeper attendant said today they were told it would be at least 2 months until the old route is repaired and opened. The Wyoming detour will continue.


----------



## Dave'sDepot

Thursday was our last day for a while

HOPEFULLY it will be only a few weeks to get the Moffat Section done. Our little store in Grand Junction gets all of our business from Amtrak passengers and crew. They crew we talked to, was not very optimistic about how long it would take. The UP people however were very sure it would be done quickly. They really need that section open more than anyone else. I am prone to listen to the Union Pacific workers more. One of them told us they will be bring as many loads of boulders rocks and dirt as possible to fill that big gap. It looks to me like it may need a bridge , but I am no engineer.


----------



## Guinness835

I hope hope for your business it's open ASAP!


----------



## daniel3197

Does anyone know -- when--- the clock for the reopen estimates started for the ongoing DRGW Moffat line slide closure???

I hope for everyones sake that the clock started on Septtember 11, 2013 rather than today Sept 21, 2013 (10 day difference0.

I am just a very interested bystander hoping that everyone gets their lives back in GOOD Order Very very SOON.

A very big Thank You to everyone for keeping all of us up to date on this major disaster.

---- Daniel


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Beth said:


> Now that this reroute is in place, does the CZ still arrive in Chicago on time? Is it early, late?


It'll be on-time, most likely. The reroute is actually faster than the regular route, but at stops DEN and after, the train still has to wait for shceduled departure time, so it cannot depart early.



Honda1 said:


> I've been following this thread for while, having had a trip planned from Iowa to Glenwood Springs, CO. It has been very informative and there are obviously some serious train buffs here.
> 
> I have a question. How are some of you able to get information about what is going on, in the complete absence of info from AMTRAK???
> 
> I'm sorry I missed my first train trip in nearly 50 years, but didn't have the time freedom to await a solution. That and the refusal to stop the bus in Glenwood Springs on the way from Denver to Grand Junction. Probably a minor inconvenience in view of the suffering and loss of those living on the front range, but the policy is ridiculous!!! Hopefully I get another chance to make this trip through the Glenwood Canyon....
> 
> Thanks for all your information, stories of your trip or travels and your opinions....
> 
> TheHonda1


We just get the info by each telling bits and pieces, then we piece it all together. A lot of these stuff comes from live reports of people from the scene. I'm pretty sure Amtrak will get you to Glenwood Springs somehow, Interstate-70 is operational. If they won't offer a bustitute, just get a Greyhound ticket there, a bus departs at noon for Las Vegas and it stops at Glenwood Springs.

I know, I wrote the "G-word", but I'm just trying help.



daniel3197 said:


> Does anyone know -- when--- the clock for the reopen estimates started for the ongoing DRGW Moffat line slide closure???
> 
> I hope for everyones sake that the clock started on Septtember 11, 2013 rather than today Sept 21, 2013 (10 day difference0.
> 
> I am just a very interested bystander hoping that everyone gets their lives back in GOOD Order Very very SOON.
> 
> A very big Thank You to everyone for keeping all of us up to date on this major disaster.
> 
> ---- Daniel


There's really no accurate estimate of how it will be repaired. The location seems very hard to access and the section could be damaged indefinately. I'm more concerned about the safety of rail operations then getting the line repaired with high speed.


----------



## domefoamer

I can report that the repair work is progressing night and day. I just drove down from Boulder, past the Tunnel District. It looked like small city or industrial facility had popped up suddenly. Bright work lights were strung along the horizontal line of the route for a mile or more. Maybe I'll go back there tomorrow with binoculars and long lenses. It seems like a hell of a lot of work to be done up there, but on the bright side, at least it has rail access!


----------



## Beth2013

Onboard the Zephry now heading to Chicago! The adventure begins


----------



## Bob Dylan

Beth2013 said:


> Onboard the Zephry now heading to Chicago! The adventure begins


:hi: Happy Rails to You! Keep us Posted about your Adventures on #6!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

domefoamer said:


> I can report that the repair work is progressing night and day. I just drove down from Boulder, past the Tunnel District. It looked like small city or industrial facility had popped up suddenly. Bright work lights were strung along the horizontal line of the route for a mile or more. Maybe I'll go back there tomorrow with binoculars and long lenses. It seems like a hell of a lot of work to be done up there, but on the bright side, at least it has rail access!


Where were you exactly? From which road did you see the contruction? I have a bunch of contour maps from the area and I can better understand what's going on if you tell me where you spotted the construction. I'm another guy that loves long-range spotting with binoculars, they're awesome up in the Rockies.


----------



## AlanB

For those who haven't yet gone through via the detour route, one highlight to keep an eye out for is Devil's Slide.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Woah, where's Devil's Slide?


----------



## AlanB

On the detour route.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

AlanB said:


> On the detour route.


I mean, where is it? I want to see where it is so I can visit even when I can't ride the detour route.

EdIt: I found it in a search, it's in Weber Canyon (Utah) along Interstate-84.


----------



## domefoamer

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Where were you exactly? From which road did you see the contruction? I have a bunch of contour maps from the area and I can better understand what's going on if you tell me where you spotted the construction. I'm another guy that loves long-range spotting with binoculars, they're awesome up in the Rockies.


I drove Colorado 93, the main road south from Boulder to Golden. The most intensive lighting and, I assume, work, was happening in the last stretch of north-south rail before the route turns west, above Eldorado Springs.


----------



## chakk

There is another stretch of track west of Eldorado Springs that has a large land gap now with welded rail and attached ties stretching across a chasm. Not sure if this stretch can be seen from Colorado State Highway 72, which would be the closest highway to the location. Highway 72 may also have experienced significant damage.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

I see that the damage is more easterly than I thought it was. I was thinking about the area around Nederland/Rollinsville, near Colorado 119. Colorado 72 is indeed shut down due to flooding. Colorado 93 is still operational.

The washed out section west of Eldorado Springs, is that around Scar Top Mountain or Eldorado Mountain?

Thanks for info, guys.


----------



## domefoamer

Working from the bottom up, they would have to repair the east-facing route through the tunnels before they could access anything west of Eldorado Springs. The lights really are impressive. From my office ten miles away, they're as bright as any city lights nearby.


----------



## Beth2013

Trip is going great so far! Staff have all been excellant.

A lady tried to dine and dash during lunch time. I'm not sure how she thought she would getaway with that. They nabbed her pretty quickly!

Tonite at dinner, a drunk guy from coach tried to make his way to the sleeper cars. Needless to say he didn't make it pass the middle of the dining car. He was mumbling and completely out of it. I'm pretty sure he was smoking wacky tabacky whenwe stopped at Winnemucca. I stepped outside for fresh air and the smell was pretty strong. Hopefully he doesnt cause anymore trouble.


----------



## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I see that the damage is more easterly than I thought it was. I was thinking about the area around Nederland/Rollinsville, near Colorado 119. Colorado 72 is indeed shut down due to flooding. Colorado 93 is still operational.
> 
> The washed out section west of Eldorado Springs, is that around Scar Top Mountain or Eldorado Mountain?
> 
> Thanks for info, guys.


All this talk of that region has got me nostalgic of when I used to live in Arvada....I could watch the RGZ, the Ski Train, and the BN 'beer run' right from my apartment window at 60th and Lamar. 

Have any of you driven over the old Corona Road over Rollins Pass? Now that was quite an adventure. I did it in my '72 Monte Carlo....  I still have the route guide they gave out back then somewhere in my 'archives'.....


----------



## VentureForth

Beth2013 said:


> Trip is going great so far! Staff have all been excellant.
> 
> A lady tried to dine and dash during lunch time. I'm not sure how she thought she would getaway with that. They nabbed her pretty quickly!
> 
> Tonite at dinner, a drunk guy from coach tried to make his way to the sleeper cars. Needless to say he didn't make it pass the middle of the dining car. He was mumbling and completely out of it. I'm pretty sure he was smoking wacky tabacky whenwe stopped at Winnemucca. I stepped outside for fresh air and the smell was pretty strong. Hopefully he doesnt cause anymore trouble.


And this is what makes train travel so, well, 21st Century! LOL. Seriously, though, it's fun to watch other's bad behavior so long as it can be contained. I've seen lots of wacky stuff on trains. Never gets old. Where does someone think they are going to run off to, on a train, skipping on a dinner tab?



railiner said:


> All this talk of that region has got me nostalgic of when I used to live in Arvada....I could watch the RGZ, the Ski Train, and the BN 'beer run' right from my apartment window at 60th and Lamar.
> 
> Have any of you driven over the old Corona Road over Rollins Pass? Now that was quite an adventure. I did it in my '72 Monte Carlo....  I still have the route guide they gave out back then somewhere in my 'archives'.....


Can't take the whole route any more, but I've been all the way up to Rollins Pass from the West. There's even a short 4x4 route that takes you to the tunnels that are now closed off. Did that in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Fun fun fun...


----------



## Frederique

I am coming from France to go to a conference in San Francisco and I specially prepared my trip to take the California Zephyr 5 from Chicago to Emeryville on the 26th September, taking a roomette and wanting to enjoy the scenery.

As a French I am very much used to taking the train and I am appalled that there is no news on the Amtrak site. What will happen to me ? Sure I am a bit lost there


----------



## Beth2013

You will be fine Frederique. The train in running thru Wyoming insteas of Colorado.


----------



## Notelvis

Frederique said:


> I am coming from France to go to a conference in San Francisco and I specially prepared my trip to take the California Zephyr 5 from Chicago to Emeryville on the 26th September, taking a roomette and wanting to enjoy the scenery.
> 
> As a French I am very much used to taking the train and I am appalled that there is no news on the Amtrak site. What will happen to me ? Sure I am a bit lost there


Specifically - while the traditional CZ route through the Colorado Rockies is under repair, the train is detouring through Wyoming on the Union Pacific Mainline. The CZ will make all of it's regular stops between Chicago and Denver and then again between Salt Lake City and Emeryville. You should have a pretty good chance at arriving on schedule too as the detour route is actually a little faster than the regular route.

You will still have lots of incredible scenery....... just not quite as much as you would have.


----------



## Lounge car

It is really bad for smokers through Wyoming I think you go fourteen hours without a stop if you smoke you may want to take the bus.


----------



## Frederique

Thank you for your answers, I'll take it as an adventure. I decided to take the train after going last year from Perth to Adelaide on the Indian Pacific in Australia (also 3 days) and I find it is a great way of seing a country when you are traveling solo


----------



## Beth2013

They just made any announcement about smoking, as some idiot decided smoking in the barhroom was a good idea. If you smoke come prepared with nicotine gum or patches, dont stink up the train, because you're an idiot!

On a happier note, I can't believe all the antelope I've seen.


----------



## Notelvis

I was on a detoured number 6 once where they did make a smoke stop at the former Laramie passenger station. The platform which had been used by the Pioneer prior to it's discontinuance was still in place there at that time...... probably 8-10 years ago.

Minus the infrastructure of an active passenger station with a platform long enough for the entire California Zephyr, making a smoke stop along the detour would likely pose more immediate threat to someone needing a smoke than the smoke itself.


----------



## Beth2013

We stopped briefly in Green River to switch crew. We were stopped there for a few mintues. Not sure if they let people smoke or not, as I jumped in the shower while the train stopped. Much easier to shower when the train is not moving.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Beth2013 said:


> They just made any announcement about smoking, as some idiot decided smoking in the barhroom was a good idea. If you smoke come prepared with nicotine gum or patches, dont stink up the train, because you're an idiot!
> 
> On a happier note, I can't believe all the antelope I've seen.


That smoker, did they kick him off the train? He should be kicked off the train in the middle of nowhere with no refund! That'll teach him, it alwasy teaches the violators over here.


----------



## Beth2013

Im not sure if they did or not.

We are currently about 4 hours late. A train ahead of us had engine problems.


----------



## the_traveler

Lounge car said:


> It is really bad for smokers through Wyoming I think you go fourteen hours without a stop if you smoke you may want to take the bus.


I am not, and never have been, a smoker. Going 14 hours without smoking - torture!!!!!!  
BTW - what do you do when you fly? You have to show up at the airport early, most all airports do not allow smoking, and if you fly cross country, or especially overseas, you can easily find yourself without a chance to smoke for 10 hours or more!  (And I don't think there are many busus funning between LA and Japan or Australia!


----------



## jebr

the_traveler said:


> Lounge car said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is really bad for smokers through Wyoming I think you go fourteen hours without a stop if you smoke you may want to take the bus.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not, and never have been, a smoker. Going 14 hours without smoking - torture!!!!!!
> BTW - what do you do when you fly? You have to show up at the airport early, most all airports do not allow smoking, and if you fly cross country, or especially overseas, you can easily find yourself without a chance to smoke for 10 hours or more!  (And I don't think there are many busus funning between LA and Japan or Australia!
Click to expand...

I assume they plan for it by bringing nicotine patches and the like. After all, they know it'll be 10 hours without being able to smoke.

Amtrak, on the other hand, just states there'll be an "alternate route" from Denver to SLC. It doesn't mention anything about the lack of fresh air stops along the route, so someone who's a casual rider of Amtrak may not realize that there'll be 14 hours without a smoke break. In fact, Amtrak states that passengers "will not be affected by the detour," which one could easily read to mean that they'll still make some fresh air stops along the route.

It'd be better if they stated something like "Passengers from Chicago to Denver and Salt Lake and San Francisco Bay will be detoured over an alternate route. Trains will not be delayed, but the train will make no stops (including fresh air stops) between Denver and Salt Lake City."


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Locking passengers into an air-conditioned train is a good way to force-quite smokers. Very good if you lock them in for 52 hours _and_ prohibit smoking in the station platform area.


----------



## slasharoo

Uh oh, 5 just lost one engine at Borie. Could be a slow trip over the mountains.


----------



## jis

the_traveler said:


> BTW - what do you do when you fly? You have to show up at the airport early, most all airports do not allow smoking, and if you fly cross country, or especially overseas, you can easily find yourself without a chance to smoke for 10 hours or more!  (And I don't think there are many busus funning between LA and Japan or Australia!


There are Airbuses running those routes you know....  But even in those smoking is strictly prohibited.


----------



## PaulM

domefoamer said:


> Just to add to idle speculation, tonight's local news just reported that 80% of US 34 is damaged or entirely gone.


I know that reporters suffer from math and geography deficiency syndrome, but even for them this is nonsense. US 34 pretty much follows the CZ route from Naperville to Ft. Morgan, none of which is damaged.


----------



## PaulM

Honda1 said:


> I have a question. How are some of you able to get information about what is going on, in the complete absence of info from AMTRAK???


I also discovered AU while trying to find out information during flooding, namely June of 2008 when the Empire Builder was not running CHI to MSP. I couldn't even find out where the flooding was. In this case AU wasn't any help. Turned out to be a temporary lake in central Wisconsin.

To answer your question, generally it's speculation based on a lot of past experience. This case is unusual in that we've had a lot of people on trains and in stations giving us live updates.


----------



## PaulM

railiner said:


> Have any of you driven over the old Corona Road over Rollins Pass? Now that was quite an adventure.


It's been a while, but my son and I biked up to the Needle's Eye Tunnel from the east portal of the Moffat Tunnel. I can tell you that the uphill ride was easier on the butt bones than the downhill. The tunnel was closed and I doubt one could drive over the pass down to Winter Park any more.


----------



## Nathanael

PaulM said:


> I also discovered AU while trying to find out information during flooding, namely June of 2008 when the Empire Builder was not running CHI to MSP. I couldn't even find out where the flooding was. In this case AU wasn't any help. Turned out to be a temporary lake in central Wisconsin.


I remember that year's flooding; it was epid. The regular CP line was flooded due to that lake. I got through on the last train northbound, which detoured via the BNSF line next to the Mississippi River. The next day, *that* line flooded out too. The other alternative routes (Union Pacific and CN) had *also* flooded out. On the way back, I rented a car -- the expressway had reopened only two days before, and all the gas stations in Wisconsin were closed due to flooding, so that was kind of a close thing.


----------



## Nathanael

PaulM said:


> domefoamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to add to idle speculation, tonight's local news just reported that 80% of US 34 is damaged or entirely gone.
> 
> 
> 
> I know that reporters suffer from math and geography deficiency syndrome, but even for them this is nonsense. US 34 pretty much follows the CZ route from Naperville to Ft. Morgan, none of which is damaged.
Click to expand...

What's actually happened is that US 34 no longer exists *between Loveland and Estes Park*.


----------



## slasharoo

Train 5 looks like we got the second engine back because we were doing 75+ from Rawlins to Rick Springs, Wyoming. We are passing Rock Springs around six pm, but they have made no announcements on whether OE not we are on schedule. Very cloudy with sprinkled, but no downpours, yet.


----------



## Slasharoo

In Green River for crew change. Estimated into Salt Lake City at 10 pm. Stunning vistas coming into this stop.


----------



## chakk

Not much grade between Rawlins and Rock Springs, so even with one engine out, the CZ might be able to maintain track speed.


----------



## Slasharoo

Snow on the ground before we crossed into Utah. What's next, a blizzard?


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

Weather forecast rain ans snow showers in Fraser tonight and tommorow. More light showers next Friday. No major snow yet. Reno is extremly cold right now.

Loveland-Estes Park is the section of US Route 34 just east of Rocky Mountain National Park.



jis said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW - what do you do when you fly? You have to show up at the airport early, most all airports do not allow smoking, and if you fly cross country, or especially overseas, you can easily find yourself without a chance to smoke for 10 hours or more!  (And I don't think there are many busus funning between LA and Japan or Australia!
> 
> 
> 
> There are Airbuses running those routes you know....  But even in those smoking is strictly prohibited.
Click to expand...

I thought almost all of them were Boeings! AFAIK, the only Airbuses to Japan and Australia are from Qantas.


----------



## domefoamer

PaulM said:


> domefoamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to add to idle speculation, tonight's local news just reported that 80% of US 34 is damaged or entirely gone.
> 
> 
> 
> I know that reporters suffer from math and geography deficiency syndrome, but even for them this is nonsense. US 34 pretty much follows the CZ route from Naperville to Ft. Morgan, none of which is damaged.
Click to expand...

Pardon my sloppy elocution, Paul M. Don't blame the reporters. We all meant to say "in the Big Thompson Canyon." Or what Nathaniel said.


----------



## Afish

Anyone know when Moffat Tunnel will be open?


----------



## Dave'sDepot

Good Morning

I have been unable to find any information about the repair of the Moffat section of the track through Colorado. They originally stated that they hoped to have it fixed and running around the 1st of October. I can find no info from Amtrak or UP. Does anyone have any information, or rumors even?  Thanks


----------



## gmushial

Afish said:


> Anyone know when Moffat Tunnel will be open?


Suspect the Moffat Tunnel is open... just can't get to it ;-)


----------



## The Davy Crockett

Dave'sDepot said:


> Good Morning
> 
> I have been unable to find any information about the repair of the Moffat section of the track through Colorado. They originally stated that they hoped to have it fixed and running around the 1st of October. I can find no info from Amtrak or UP. Does anyone have any information, or rumors even?  Thanks


The only thing I can find related is a news item at 'Trains' online News Wire, which reported that a contractor working on the Moffat Sub was killed last Wednesday (9/25) when his dump truck rolled over him. In the article from 9/27, UP spokesman Mark Davis said the repairs "could take weeks."


----------



## Swadian Hardcore

This repair work is getting dangerous with people getting killed. It will be a long time before it gets repiared. Frankly, it might be two or three weeks before the line is running again.


----------



## Junction Monkey

The local radio station had a news story today that reported Amtrak says the DEN to GJT line will reopen on October 7th. A wee bit optimistic?


----------



## pebbleworm

Just to be a pill, the Wyoming bypass saves 10% of the time between Emeryville and Chicago. Why not make it permanent and leave the glacial canyon crawl for a tourist train?


----------



## Guest

UP released this today, probably because their initial announcement said that the Moffat Subdivision would be open by October.

http://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/allcustomernews/CN2013-15.html


----------



## Eric S

I'm not sure we have easy access to statistics to back this up, but I have to imagine that a nontrivial portion of the CZ's ridership and revenue is generated because of the "glacial canyon crawl" between Denver and Glenwood Springs.


----------



## greatcats

Thank you, Pebbleworm. You are indeed a pill!


----------



## jebr

pebbleworm said:


> Just to be a pill, the Wyoming bypass saves 10% of the time between Emeryville and Chicago. Why not make it permanent and leave the glacial canyon crawl for a tourist train?


Probably because a lot of passengers, for better or for worse, use it in part as a tourist train?

There's also arguably a lot better markets in western Colorado (Grand Junction, Glenwood Springs, etc.) for train travel than in Wyoming (which would be Cheyenne and a few other towns.)

I don't see it being beneficial to Amtrak to take the Wyoming bypass permanently.


----------



## greatcats

Pebbleworm. Have a nice day.


----------



## The Davy Crockett

While trying to find some more information on when the Moffat Sub might reopen - and when the Zephyr might resume service on it - I came across an article about a Zephyrette reunion in Glenwood Springs on September 24 in the Post Independent/Citizen Telegram/Grand Junction Free Press. From the article:



> A group of former stewardesses called the Zephyrettes, from the original California Zephyr interstate passenger train, will arrive in Glenwood Springs on Sept. 24 for a two-day reunion.
> 
> According to Bernita Lundquist, 83, of Denver, there are about 20 people expected at the reunion, although the flood-caused lack of service by the current version of the train, the Amtrak California Zephyr, may get in the way of participation by some.
> 
> Lundquist, who retired as a Zephyrette in 1960, said this is not the first reunion of the group. The first, two years ago, was held in San Francisco, which is across the Bay Bridge from Oakland, the original and continuing terminus of the Zephyr service.
> 
> But this will be the first time the group meets in Glenwood Springs, and to visit the Glenwood Springs Railway Museum in the Amtrak station, at 413 Seventh St.
> 
> “We thought, because of the museum and the station’s connection to the old Zephyr, how appropriate it would be to have the next reunion there,” said Lundquist.



Now that would have been a fun reunion to attend.


----------



## railiner

pebbleworm said:


> Just to be a pill, the Wyoming bypass saves 10% of the time between Emeryville and Chicago. Why not make it permanent and leave the glacial canyon crawl for a tourist train?


In the words of tennis hall of famer, John McEnroe.....................Are You Serious? :angry:

The CZ would probably lose a huge chunk of business if it was permanently rerouted....if folks are in a hurry, they'll fly across country, not take a marginally faster transcontinental train..... hboy:


----------



## The Davy Crockett

From the Post Indepentent/Citizen Telegram/Grand Junction Free Press:



> In the week since the floods, Union Pacific (UP), which owns the tracks and leases them to Amtrak, has been working feverishly to repair the damage, according to UP spokesman Mark Davis.
> 
> “As of Monday, Sept. 23, our engineering team was estimating another two weeks before the line is ready to reopen,” Davis wrote in an email to the Post Independent on Sept. 27. Two weeks from that date would put the resumption of train travel at Oct. 7 at the earliest.
> 
> “Though progress is being made,” Davis continued, “there is a very large hole that needs to be filled. Estimates for this one hole alone are 120,000 cubic yards of material to fill the hole.”
> 
> He said that translates to approximately 2,600 rail cars of material.


----------



## Gemuser

The Davy Crockett said:


> Dave'sDepot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Morning
> 
> I have been unable to find any information about the repair of the Moffat section of the track through Colorado. They originally stated that they hoped to have it fixed and running around the 1st of October. I can find no info from Amtrak or UP. Does anyone have any information, or rumors even?  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I can find related is a news item at 'Trains' online News Wire, which reported that a contractor working on the Moffat Sub was killed last Wednesday (9/25) when his dump truck rolled over him. In the article from 9/27, UP spokesman Mark Davis said the repairs "could take weeks."
Click to expand...

See post No 12 & pictures by jis in the thread below, from today:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/56909-california-zephyr-and-colorado-flooding-status/

Seems like work is proceeding pretty fast.


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## The Davy Crockett

Gemuser said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave'sDepot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Morning
> 
> I have been unable to find any information about the repair of the Moffat section of the track through Colorado. They originally stated that they hoped to have it fixed and running around the 1st of October. I can find no info from Amtrak or UP. Does anyone have any information, or rumors even?  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I can find related is a news item at 'Trains' online News Wire, which reported that a contractor working on the Moffat Sub was killed last Wednesday (9/25) when his dump truck rolled over him. In the article from 9/27, UP spokesman Mark Davis said the repairs "could take weeks."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See post No 12 & pictures by jis in the thread below, from today:
> 
> http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/56909-california-zephyr-and-colorado-flooding-status/
> 
> Seems like work is proceeding pretty fast.
Click to expand...

Um, pardon me, but your post makes no sense. What are you attempting to say?


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## jis

He may have been referring to my note in that post about my friend having visited the area and seen that the fill has now been completed as of yesterday (10/3).


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## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> He may have been referring to my note in that post about my friend having visited the area and seen that the fill has now been completed as of yesterday (10/3).


Okay, THAT would explain it. Thanx!


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## eblkheart

Moffat is open from what I understand. There is rail traffic moving through it as of 2 nights ago. 5/6 is still scheduled through Wyoming. As one person on a board I belong to, 5/6 is still penned for the next few days through Wyoming. If I hear anything else before it's posted here, I'll let you guys know.


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## Gemuser

jis said:


> He may have been referring to my note in that post about my friend having visited the area and seen that the fill has now been completed as of yesterday (10/3).


I was. If you clicked on the link I thought it was pretty self explanatory.


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## jis

Gemuser said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> He may have been referring to my note in that post about my friend having visited the area and seen that the fill has now been completed as of yesterday (10/3).
> 
> 
> 
> I was. If you clicked on the link I thought it was pretty self explanatory.
Click to expand...

I think Davy had just missed it.


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## Nathanael

jebr said:


> pebbleworm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be a pill, the Wyoming bypass saves 10% of the time between Emeryville and Chicago. Why not make it permanent and leave the glacial canyon crawl for a tourist train?
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because a lot of passengers, for better or for worse, use it in part as a tourist train?
> There's also arguably a lot better markets in western Colorado (Grand Junction, Glenwood Springs, etc.) for train travel than in Wyoming (which would be Cheyenne and a few other towns.)
> 
> I don't see it being beneficial to Amtrak to take the Wyoming bypass permanently.
Click to expand...

If you look at the PIPs or the yearly station ridership reports, you'll see that there's very substantial "ski tourist" or "mountain tourist" traffic from Denver to Grand Junction. It's the third-most-popular part of the route, after Denver-Chicago and California-Reno.
If Amtrak had the money and equipment to run lots of trains, it might be advisable to run the Denver-California route through Wyoming and run a separate train from Denver to Grand Junction -- since the Grand Junction - Salt Lake City traffic is minimal. However, Amtrak doesn't have that option right now, and so it makes sense to try to capture as many markets as possible simultaneously.


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## Swadian Hardcore

5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.

I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators. The only reason to ride the CZ on that segment is to go over Donner Pass and see Donner Lake, the transport element on that section is virtually pointless. JMO.

I will not reply to anyone who tries to veer off onto threadjacking by following my previous statement.


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## The Davy Crockett

jis said:


> Gemuser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> He may have been referring to my note in that post about my friend having visited the area and seen that the fill has now been completed as of yesterday (10/3).
> 
> 
> 
> I was. If you clicked on the link I thought it was pretty self explanatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think Davy had just missed it.
Click to expand...

Yep, exactly. h34r:


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## chakk

Swadian Hardcore said:


> 5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.
> 
> I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators. The only reason to ride the CZ on that segment is to go over Donner Pass and see Donner Lake, the transport element on that section is virtually pointless. JMO.
> 
> I will not reply to anyone who tries to veer off onto threadjacking by following my previous statement.


Other railfan forums are reporting that the Moffat subdivision in Colorado is just a few days away from being opened again to all trains -- including the CZ. A few freight trains and work trains have been allowed through the area that was washed out last month, albeit at restricted speed.

The CZ route between California stations and Reno continues to carry many tourists, who enjoy the view (which is much better near the summit on the west side that achieved in an automobile) and the fact that the train tends to get over the line in all but the most severe of snowstorms, while the highway can be frequently closed for plowing or by accidents during the winter.


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## Peteypablo

The earliest ticket one can book to ride between cities on the old Rio Grande route is October 19. From this I infer that Amtrak will detour through Wyoming as late as October 18.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Peteypablo said:


> The earliest ticket one can book to ride between cities on the old Rio Grande route is October 19. From this I infer that Amtrak will detour through Wyoming as late as October 18.


They said it would be rerouted for a month, I guess they really need a month to get stuff sorted out.


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## Nathanael

Swadian Hardcore said:


> 5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.
> 
> I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators.


Maybe, maybe not. Startling numbers of people from northern California want to go to the Reno area, apparently. I don't see it, myself.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Nathanael said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.
> 
> I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. Startling numbers of people from northern California want to go to the Reno area, apparently. I don't see it, myself.
Click to expand...

This one won't lead to threajacking, so I think it'll be OK to reply. Frankly, Reno is not fun at all. There's gambling, which is just a big waste of money, and there's nothing else at all. Lake Tahoe is better accessed from Truckee or South LAke Tahoe (the town), and skiing is really hard to access from any public transport without special ski shutttles like in DEN or SLC.

I really have no idea why a Californian would pay $100 round-trip to visit this plain little city at the edge of the Great Basin.


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## jebr

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.
> 
> I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. Startling numbers of people from northern California want to go to the Reno area, apparently. I don't see it, myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This one won't lead to threajacking, so I think it'll be OK to reply. Frankly, Reno is not fun at all. There's gambling, which is just a big waste of money, and there's nothing else at all. Lake Tahoe is better accessed from Truckee or South LAke Tahoe (the town), and skiing is really hard to access from any public transport without special ski shutttles like in DEN or SLC.
> 
> I really have no idea why a Californian would pay $100 round-trip to visit this plain little city at the edge of the Great Basin.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's the other way around...lots of people from Reno want to go to northern California for a day? Not sure, just speculation. Either way would likely show up the same way in total rider statistics.


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## Swadian Hardcore

jebr said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nathanael said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 and 6 are still showing disruptions on Amtrak Status. The way up to Moffat may be open but the CZ sure isn't using it.
> 
> I'm surprised that California-Reno is so popular with the CZ, that may drop quite a bit soon with ferocious competition from other operators.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. Startling numbers of people from northern California want to go to the Reno area, apparently. I don't see it, myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This one won't lead to threajacking, so I think it'll be OK to reply. Frankly, Reno is not fun at all. There's gambling, which is just a big waste of money, and there's nothing else at all. Lake Tahoe is better accessed from Truckee or South LAke Tahoe (the town), and skiing is really hard to access from any public transport without special ski shutttles like in DEN or SLC.
> 
> I really have no idea why a Californian would pay $100 round-trip to visit this plain little city at the edge of the Great Basin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe it's the other way around...lots of people from Reno want to go to northern California for a day? Not sure, just speculation. Either way would likely show up the same way in total rider statistics.
Click to expand...

For a day? You can't do that on a train though, if you rode to merely SAC it would take over 5 hours each way and would be an impossible day trip. Maybe for 1- or 2-day trips, but again, other transport options are better when it's not snowing.

Don't go too much off-topic, then I'm going to become the threadjacker.

Please do note that the CZ is still running through Wyoming.


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## chakk

Mount Rose ski resort on the north side of Lake Tahoe has daily ski shuttle bus service from Reno, but not from South Lake Tahoe, as the road on the east side of the lake is at times closed by snow. Besides, Heavenly Valley Ski Resort is adjacent to downtown South Lake Tahoe. Bay Area customers will often fill an entire coach of the CZ traveling to/from Reno.


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## eblkheart

News article update on amtrak:

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/359053/346/Tracks-are-fixed-but-Amtraks-still-derailed

Two things in the article:


Calli Hite of the Union Pacific Railroad *tells the Glenwood Springs Post-Independent* that there's a backlog of freight that takes precedence over passenger traffic on the UP's tracks.
Amtrak spokesman Marc Maglieri says he hopes to know more about resuming service by the end of the week
So there we have it. Moffat is open and hopefully soon everything will be back to normal in regards to Amtrak in this state.


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## Dave'sDepot

FINALLY! The Colorado section of the California Zephyr route, will beggin running again starting tomorrow, Saturday October 12. Great news for our little store, and for all fans of the route. It took a while, but it was a huge job. They finished earlier this week, and Union Pacific spent the past few days getting freight trains through and over that bad backed up during the shut down. We would love to see any of you travelling this route to come in and say hello! We are located in the Grand Junction Amtrak Station, and carry drinks, snacks, sundries, and all kinds of Colorado and AMtrak and Rail related souvenirs. So glad they got this back up and running. They worked so hard to get it done


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## Bob Dylan

Glad ya'll get to Re-Open the Store Dave! I've been in ya'lls Store Several Times, especially Like the Coke Products! :wub:

I'm sure the Passengers taking this Route and the People of Central Colorado are Glad the Moffat Route is Open again! And Kudoos to UP, which Isn't always Friendly to Amtrak, for doing such a Quick Job of Repairing what was a Major Disaster!


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## AmtrakBlue

Yay for Dave's Depot!


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## jshell

Dave'sDepot said:


> FINALLY! The Colorado section of the California Zephyr route, will beggin running again starting tomorrow, Saturday October 12. Great news for our little store, and for all fans of the route. It took a while, but it was a huge job. They finished earlier this week, and Union Pacific spent the past few days getting freight trains through and over that bad backed up during the shut down. We would love to see any of you travelling this route to come in and say hello! We are located in the Grand Junction Amtrak Station, and carry drinks, snacks, sundries, and all kinds of Colorado and AMtrak and Rail related souvenirs. So glad they got this back up and running. They worked so hard to get it done


While part of me was interested in seeing the different route through Wyoming, I'm glad the traditional route is back. I'll be seeing you November 6!


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## Trainmans daughter

Dave'sDepot said:


> FINALLY! The Colorado section of the California Zephyr route, will beggin running again starting tomorrow, Saturday October 12. Great news for our little store, and for all fans of the route. It took a while, but it was a huge job. They finished earlier this week, and Union Pacific spent the past few days getting freight trains through and over that bad backed up during the shut down. We would love to see any of you travelling this route to come in and say hello! We are located in the Grand Junction Amtrak Station, and carry drinks, snacks, sundries, and all kinds of Colorado and AMtrak and Rail related souvenirs. So glad they got this back up and running. They worked so hard to get it done


Very happy for you, Dave. We'll be coming though there on December 27. Question: Do you have a mail-drop in the store for mailing the postcards we buy from you?


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## Dave'sDepot

Thank you all. That was a long month of being closed. Great to see the passengers &crew again, come in and say hi! Trainmans Daughter, we are happy to mail any letters or postcards that our passengers and crew want to send. There is a drop outside the store, but the mail man does not always pick up regularly, so we drop items at the Post Office 2 blocks away. We always have tons of Coke products, knowing Amtrak only sells Pepsi. Here is train #6, the first one in this morning. Welcome back! Notice the

hands in the top window. (unless they always do that, or they are fake lol) and the news lady doing a story on the store and Amtrak service returning


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## AmtrakBlue

Dave'sDepot said:


> Thank you all. That was a long month of being closed. Great to see the passengers &crew again, come in and say hi! Trainmans Daughter, we are happy to mail any letters or postcards that our passengers and crew want to send. There is a drop outside the store, but the mail man does not always pick up regularly, so we drop items at the Post Office 2 blocks away. We always have tons of Coke products, knowing Amtrak only sells Pepsi. Here is train #6, the first one in this morning. Welcome back! Notice the
> 
> hands in the top window. (unless they always do that, or they are fake lol) and the news lady doing a story on the store and Amtrak service returning


**LIKE**


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