# AGR, Eticketing, and Select City Pairs



## diesteldorf (Aug 12, 2012)

Planning to attend the Gathering in PHL and also do some Acela riding on the side, since they haven't brought Acela to Wisconsin yet 

In the past, I've always purchased by tickets for Select City Pairs since the AGR points (500 or 750) are substantially more than the typical 2 points per $1 spent.

Part of the reason, I'm incorporating Acela into the Gathering is for fun, to use those upgrade certificates, and requalify for status next year.

Depending on time, logistics, hotels, etc. I may have a reservation and printed ticket for WAS to BOS and get on or off in Providence, RI I've also had tickets from BOS to WAS and gotten on or off in Baltimore, MD.

I've always called Amtrak ahead of time if I'm boarding at another location, so they don't mark me as a no-show and cancel my trip.

Now, with the new Eticketing procedure, the AGR CSR is telling me that customers who make such changes, will have their reservations updated by AGR, and only receive points for the part traveled.

Now, I don't expect this will affect those that purchase a NYP-BOS ticket and detrain in PVD, but it sounds like all those people that previously purchased a BOS-NYP ticket and got on in PVD may only be getting 2 points fpr $1 from now on.

I don't mind paying a few dollars more to Amtrak in order to purchase a Select City pair, and it was really nice to be able to get on or off early and still get those points.

Has anyone had experience with this situation so far?


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## Anthony (Aug 12, 2012)

If the reservation is adjusted for a segment to reflect a non-Select City Pair, then you will get two points per dollar and not the Select City Pair bonus.


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## diesteldorf (Aug 13, 2012)

Is there any way to prevent this? With the new system, if I have a BOS-NYP reservation and choose to get on in Providence, will my reservation automatically be canceled if I don't notify Amtrak and just try to get on in PVD?

If that's the way it is, so be it. I guess I'll just have to deal with it.


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## Anderson (Aug 13, 2012)

My best guess off the top of my head: Book for the farthest out Boston station (I think thats RTE), which should still get you the bonus. Board at PVD, which is the next stop. Problem should be solved, as no-shows aren't marked off for a stop to deal with everything from narrow misses of a train to people getting mixed up on where to go and conductors taking forever to punch (or, now, scan) tickets.


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## the_traveler (Aug 13, 2012)

I agree. Book fron RTE but get on in PVD. At least before (and I don't see why it would change), no-shows were not considered until the next stop or 2 hours, whichever came first. After all, I can get on at KIN, but also PVD or WSY - all within a 40 minute drive fron me.


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## Trogdor (Aug 13, 2012)

If you book from RTE and board in PVD, and the conductor happens to do a full ticket check before arrival in PVD and indicates so on his device, then your reservation will cancel.


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## diesteldorf (Aug 13, 2012)

I definately appreciate the input. I've actually been holding a few of these tickets for awhile because I paid for them previously with a voucher and got the blue tickets several months ago. However, I am planning on exchanging them and using a few 48 hour upgrades to get into 1st Class.

If I must board from WAS or BOS to get the points, I will but, hopefully I can find a way between now and when I travel to get the Select Pair points.

I never thought I was scamming Amtrak by doing this, but maybe Amtrak deliberately wants to stop what I've done in the past.


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## amamba (Aug 13, 2012)

I always used to just book my tickets to/from BOS and then board/detrain in PVD. The price is the same if you do BOS/BBY/RTE.

However, I am obviously super nervous about my reservation possibly being cancelled if I book an RTE ticket and board in PVD. What I am going to do moving forward is to actually figure out where I will board. If I will board in BOS, I will book from BOS and do a points run up there before catching the acela.

On the way home, I will continue to book my tickets to RTE and then just detrain in PVD without mentioning it to the conductor. That shouldn't be a problem on the acela and will then get me the city pair points.

For me, it just seems like too much of a risk of somehow my reservation getting cancelled to board in PVD now with a ticket that starts at RTE. Especially since people are actually boarding trains and having their tickets cancelled (see the post on Flyertalk). I think it totally sucks, but it is what it is. I don't think you have a right to complain if you book a ticket from RTE and board in PVD for the sole purpose of getting more points and then your reservation cancels. That is the amtrak policy, and it is clearly written on their website, so I am not going to risk it for some measly points.

Especially since the FC car does sometimes sell out and so do the more popular acela trains.


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## Acela150 (Aug 14, 2012)

It actually wouldn't hurt to run up to RTE. While it's one stop farther then PVD it's the last receiving only and first discharging only and there is usually still a decent seat selection. Every once and a while you can find a CSX train come through. It's a semi decent place to railfan.


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## amamba (Aug 14, 2012)

Acela150 said:


> It actually wouldn't hurt to run up to RTE. While it's one stop farther then PVD it's the last receiving only and first discharging only and there is usually still a decent seat selection. Every once and a while you can find a CSX train come through. It's a semi decent place to railfan.


Well that really depends. I live in PVD and can walk to the train station - so for me its a huge PITA to go up to RTE. Then I have to pay to park up there, too, plus it adds time to my trip each way.

For someone who is a tourist and wants to spend an overnight or some time in PVD, it would certainly add cost to your trip to go all the way up to RTE. PVD is a great downtown train station which is walkable to many hotels, restaurants, etc. If a tourist without a car went all the way up to RTE, they would need to get a cab back into PVD.

I agree that the seat selection is better if you board in RTE, but I think its a huge PITA to actually board there.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 14, 2012)

This whole discussion points out how stupid the "select city pair" system is. PVD to NYP is not a select city pair, yet RTE to STM is. WAS to MET is a select city pair, yet BAL to BOS is not. All trips to and from PVD, NHV, WIL and BAL are excluded from the select city pair program.

I know the select city pair system was developed to provide AGR points roughly equal to the mileage accrual of the competing air shuttles. The air shuttle service is basically just the BOS, NYC and WAS markets. PHL got thrown a bone with trips to the BOS area after being originally excluded (I have to think that some political heat was applied). However, inequities like RTE-STM being in and PVD-NYP or even WAS being out should be addressed. Why should a passenger traveling PVD-NYP for $99 get 198 points while someone traveling BOS-NYP for $100 gets 500 points? Unless Amtrak simply does not want mid-run passengers like PVD and BAL, it is simply dumb.


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## the_traveler (Aug 14, 2012)

amamba said:


> 1344949093[/url]' post='387171']
> 
> 
> Acela150 said:
> ...


You can also take Amtrak or MBTA from PVD to RTE!


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## amamba (Aug 14, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > 1344949093[/url]' post='387171']
> ...


Sure, but that is going to add time to your trip. My time is valuable.


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## the_traveler (Aug 14, 2012)

AGR point run if you take Amtrak!


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## amamba (Aug 14, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> AGR point run if you take Amtrak!


Yup, which I did mention in my original post. But again, for some people, it is just not feasible to add that extra time to a trip.

I am luckily going to be able to do that next week - I am going to take the 66 to BOS and then take the 9:15 acela out of BOS, but I don't always have 3 hours to devote to getting 100 points. It would be cheaper - if we are assigning a value to my time - to just buy the points outright.

In conclusion, this new issue is definitely going to have me replace some of my train trips with flights. Like when I am going to WAS in September - its a long trip as it is on acela, and its not worth it to me if I can't get the 750 points PVD - WAS. Instead I am going to fly - and the roundtrip flight from PVD - DCA is only $214. Huge cost savings over acela, too. I don't know - maybe amtrak has decided that it doesn't need the PVD - WAS market since they are already running at high capacity for the NYP - WAS market and again the NYP - BOS market. Maybe they would rather not have through seats on the train.


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## diesteldorf (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks for the lively discussion so far.

Amamba,

Don't mean to put you on the spot, but if you're willing to speak to any of the conductors on the Acela when you take your upcoming tip, I'd be curious to know if or when they mark all tickets collected....after every stop or after only certain stops.

I did pretty much what Amamba did last year when I boarded #66 in PVD en route to BOS for an 8:00 AM arrival to catch the Saturday, #2251 8:10 Acela out of BOS. Now that was a TIGHT connection!!! At the time, I was contemplating just catching #2251 in PVD since I had a BOS ticket anyway and would've still secured my 750 points for First Class.

The conductor wondered why I was taking #66 into BOS to catch #2251 until I mentioned better seat selection...and more points!

Luckily, #66 was a few minutes early arriving. Under the new Eticket system, I suppose I could catch #66 and get off at BBY or RTE, (provided #66 isn't too late) make a quick call, update my Acela reservation to reflect BBY or RTE and still get the same points. It's a bit of a hassle, but not a problem.

At the time #2251 was the only Acela that would allow me to connect with #29 Capitol Limited, so I didn't have the luxury of boarding a later one.

Regarding the Gathering, I don't have the luxury of using #66 as a quick shuttle, since my Acelas are too early, so I'll probably kill some time at the station and maybe grab a bite to eat at:

South Street Diner

178 Kneeland St

Boston, MA, 02111

The only issue I may still have to deal with is on Sunday afternoon, 10/7. I was planning to catch #143 from PHL to WAS at 11:30 AM so I can connect with #2256 WAS-NYP at 3:00 PM. Depending on wgat we do Sunday, I thought about leaving PHL later at 1:30 PM on #157 from PHL to Baltimore and still be able to catch #2256 in Baltimore. I may still do this, depending on Sunday's activities, but it may be an easier sell, depending on what information is gathered regarding how quickly cancellations and no-shows are processed between stations.

The real "tragedy" of all this, in Amamba's case, is that you have someone who prefers rail travel, and is even willing to pay, at times a higher cost, compared to the air shuttles, that is contemplating riding Amtrak less because of Eticketing and the loss of points that comes from boarding in PVD.

Also found out recently that boarding a different UNRESERVED train that the one scheduled will also cause everything after that point in the reservation to cancel if Amtrak isn't notified. Unreserved trains were nice in the past because you could board any of them at your convenience.

I suppose Eticketing will cause me to make more one-way reservations than round-trip and also book any UNRESERVED trains separate from the reserved ones.


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## transit54 (Aug 15, 2012)

diesteldorf said:


> The real "tragedy" of all this, in Amamba's case, is that you have someone who prefers rail travel, and is even willing to pay, at times a higher cost, compared to the air shuttles, that is contemplating riding Amtrak less because of Eticketing and the loss of points that comes from boarding in PVD.


But let's be honest here - the problem is not that Amamba is contemplating rail travel less because of eTicketing - she is contemplating rail travel less because Amtrak does not offer PVD-WAS as a "select" city pair. Sure, there was an easy way around this prior to eTicketing, but the root of the problem has always been there. There seems no sense in making STM-WAS or Newark-WAS a select pair and not PVD. PVD actually has much better accessibility to air service than STM does and essentially the 500 point rule was put into effect to match the offerings of air carriers, many of which offered a 500 mile per segment minimum. There doesn't seem to be a lot of sense in making a passenger falsify their point of origin or destination to obtain get the 500 points when comparable, major downline stations are given the 500 points.

Amtrak really needs to consider making PVD a select city, purely because of this exact issue.

I do agree, however, that Amtrak should have continued to offer paper tickets as an option while they worked all of the bugs out of this. I am really glad Amtrak did not delay eTicketing any further, as it's availability has undoubtably increased passenger convenience at many stations. I had a friend who booked a ticket earlier this week and would not have done so if eTicketing was not available. Since he would have had to pay a $15 express delivery charge or paid at least that by waiting to pay on the train, he would have chosen Megabus instead, even though he greatly prefers the train. But why not offer a two or three month period where both are available - as Amtrak certainly hasn't completely phased out the use of paper tickets and won't be eliminating them for a long while.

I would suggest that Amamba contact Amtrak and make the case that PVD needs to be made a select city for WAS-bound trips, but we'll see how far that gets - probably not far unless there is an overwhelming outcry from pax out of PVD.


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## diesteldorf (Aug 15, 2012)

You're right and the root problem was still there, prior to Eticketing. It's just that, as you stated, prior to Eticketing there was an easy workaround.

I would love if PVD was also a select city pair, as PVD is much nicer and cheaper to stay in than downtown Boston.

Someone even told me that the Patriots will often fly into PVD instead of Boston because the airport is more convenient.

Hopefully, Amtrak will choose to compete more fiercly in the PVD market in the future.


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## amamba (Aug 15, 2012)

I will certainly ask the conductor on my next trip re: getting on a stop late and the issue with the tickets cancelling. As Trogdor mentions, if the conductor indicates on their device that they have collected all of the tickets after RTE, your reservation WILL cancel. I am not willing to take that risk right now.

I am riding on 8/24 to NYP. When I take the #66 up to BOS, I always grab the 9:15 acela rather than the 8:10. That means that I am not worried about missing it, but that is a good suggestion to take the 66 up to RTE and then board the 8:10 out of BOS. However, if I am taking the time to go up to BOS, I do like to sit in the club acela and get on first to ensure the best seat selection possible.

I agree that it is unfortunate that amtrak has never offered the select city pair bonus for PVD travel. The airport in PVD is very convenient for flying to PHL, BWI & WAS. Personally I wouldn't fly PVD - NYP which is maybe why that city pair wasn't added when PHL was added. We must not have had the same great political clout that PHL did when they got added. 

I believe one will be still be safe boarding in BBY with a ticket from BOS and vice versa. The conductors do not bother to start checking tickets until after BBY.


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## the_traveler (Aug 15, 2012)

diesteldorf said:


> 1345038982[/url]' post='387406']Someone even told me that the Patriots will often fly into PVD instead of Boston because the airport is more convenient.


I'm not sure about the Pats them self, but many of the visiting teams fly into, and stay in, PVD, because PVD is closer (or the same distance) from Foxboro -- minus the big traffic problems, and yet the Pats are considered a Boston team!


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