# Frustrating Phone Call on points.



## Larry H. (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow!!.. I nearly lost my cool with the Amtrak agent at guest rewards.. This is another situation where Amtrak is a bureaucracy with out brains in my opinion.

I called in because as I have talked about we wish to take a fall trip up though chicago and to new york city, via the cardinal for the scenery and return the lakeshore. Right now due to the traffic the rooms are either sold out or very limited.. So I wanted to find out how all this works. They put me thought to the Redemption specialist "Mike".. A nice enough sounding fellow. But it quickly became apparent that the script is set and if your not aware of it your on the outside.. I tired to find out how to pay for one leg of the trip and use the points in the other direction. The first big problem which is unbelievable to me is that not one can work out the entire trip to be sure your connections all have available rooms..

First problem arose when I tried to get the departure for the Cardinal and when he put in Leaving from Centralia Illinois it wouldn't route him on the Cardinal. He said we had to take the Capitiol.. Then finally he said that maybe on a weekend it would let us use the Cardinal so he checked that and it did. But to make the connections at new york city he couldn't tell me if the Lake Shore would have the rooms we needed nor could he make any kind of hold on the Lakeshore for us.. It all had to be done separately. I told him how could I say for sure I wanted the rooms on a certain date when no one could guarantee that the next train was available.. He wouldn't budge on it. The only thing he could do is book a trip with the rewards points. He finally just said do you want to make a reservation today.. In other words he was done with the situation....

I told him I wasn't getting a very good impression of Amtrak from this problem. I ask him if I could make a tentative reservation like you normally would and then have them to use it to confirm my guest rewards for that part of the trip, which only made sense to me. No go.. He had to just make a reservation regardless of how it turned out in relation to the rest of the trip..

Now I find this all very hard to understand.. We have people such as our selves who are not experts at how to do these things, I thought Guest Rewards was about service and helping the passenger. You would think that they could at least have someone who could make sure your trip would work and needed and then take care of the tickets. But no, you have to hope for the best and figure it out your self..

Finally we decided I would have to check the trains and see when a set of rooms for three were available for sure, and then call right in and book the tickets separately and hope the leg of the trips I had found would work with the Guest rewards redemptions. There should be a better more customer friendly way to do this..


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## the_traveler (Jul 30, 2008)

Not to be for or against them, but are you aware that the AGR redemption phone line does not go to Amtrak per se? :huh:

AGR is contracted out to (IIRC) Carlson Lit in Minneapolis, MN. So you are not speaking directly to Amtrak. That is why AGR can not make a paid segment reservation for you. Oh sure, they could tell you the ___ has 1 bedroom left, but by the time you call Amtrak, that 1 room had been sold to someone else! So who will you be mad at? AGR told you the correct information at that time (there was 1 room left) and Amtrak told you the correct information at that time (there are no rooms left).

It is similar to flying on United Airlines then connecting to  Greyhound. I doubt that United will sell you a ticket on Greyhound - you would have to call them yourself.

You are also aware that the Cardinal only operates 3 times a week? It departs CHI on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday only. So if you were checking for (say) a Wednesday departure, that is why you were offered only a CL departure - since there is no Cardinal running on Wednesday!


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## Guest_soitgoes_* (Jul 30, 2008)

Definitely book your paid tickets first!! The award price won't go up as long as there is space still available, but the paid rates might. Get online and book your paid trip, searching for three available rooms and then changing it to two when you go to book. Then call AGR right away--or even call them while you are online.

AGR reps do not have the ability to do anything with paid tickets. Amtrak reservations agents can do very little with AGR reservations except see them.


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## Larry H. (Jul 30, 2008)

Well it appears my first finding is correct them.. This is a crazy way to do business.. I am taking Amtrak in both ways having nothing to do what so ever with the comparison of airlines to buses.. No doubt its a cost saving deal to make guest rewards a separate deal. It should be ONE entity capable of scheduling your entire trip with them. After all its the train were taking, and it should all be interconnected. The other issue brought up here is that some days the Rewards would cover the trip on the Cardinal, other days it won't.. So making a reservation in advance is useless if they don't cover the trip.

I admit after talking to the fellow and finally figuring out for my self to paid for the portion of the trip with chase that he found impossible to provide and then use the Points for the other leg which is more readily available. Its still not my idea of good business to call a company trying to book passage on their trains only to find out that no one can say yes, or no to your complete plans and just leave you on your own.


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## the_traveler (Jul 30, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Well it appears my first finding is correct them.. This is a crazy way to do business.. I am taking Amtrak in both ways having nothing to do what so ever with the comparison of airlines to buses.. No doubt its a cost saving deal to make guest rewards a separate deal. It should be ONE entity capable of scheduling your entire trip with them. After all its the train were taking, and it should all be interconnected.


OK, maybe plane/bus does not apply here, but how about Air Canada (an airline) and Aeroplane (I think that's the name of their frequent flyer program). They are not run by the same company. You may have the same problems as Amtrak and AGR.



> The other issue brought up here is that some days the Rewards would cover the trip on the Cardinal, other days it won't.. So making a reservation in advance is useless if they don't cover the trip.


It's not that "same days it will cover it, some days it won't"! The reason it won't cover the Cardinal on Wednesday is because *THERE IS NO CARDINAL DEPARTING FROM CHICAGO ON SUNDAY, MONDAY, WEDNESDAY OR FRIDAY*! It can't cover it if there's no train to cover! If there was a train operating on those days, it would be covered!


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## Larry H. (Jul 30, 2008)

Dear Traveler,

I am only putting in days when the Cardinal is scheduled to leave chicago, not days its not running.. the fellow told me that on a week day the Guest Points would not be accepted on the Cardinal, you had to use the routing the computer was showing which was the Capitol. Since I have about given up on the Cardinal anyway and most likely will end up on the Capitol. He said the weekends sometimes allowed the Points use on the Cardinal..

Its a totally mute point for me to have excuses as to how others may do it. Its rotten customer service to have people given the run around trying to book a trip. It should be a customer friendly situation period!.. That it is not.. Maybe those who use it a lot, or like to defend the indefensible just because its a train, can navigate all the road blocks to scheduling a trip. If I were in charge, which I am not, of customer service this would be a much more pleasant situation. I worked all my life in companies who's existence depended on serving not irritating the public. Amtrak is the latter in many ways.


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## the_traveler (Jul 30, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Dear Traveler,
> I am only putting in days when the Cardinal is scheduled to leave chicago, not days its not running.. the fellow told me that *on a week day the Guest Points would not be accepted on the Cardinal*, you had to use the routing the computer was showing which was the Capitol. Since I have about given up on the Cardinal anyway and most likely will end up on the Capitol. *He said the weekends sometimes allowed the Points use on the Cardinal.*


I'll dispute that - with an excellent *PERSONAL* example!

I booked an AGR award for later this year from PDX-BHM that includes the Cardinal. I am leaving PDX on October 14 (which is a Tuesday) and connecting in CHI to the Cardinal on October 16 (which is a Thursday)! Unless the calendar has been changed in the last 2 minutes - as far as I know neither Tuesday or Thursday are considered weekend days!

So I can't understand your statement! I am traveling from CHI-CVS on the Cardinal on an AGR award on a Thursday!

As long as any seats or rooms are available for any train - and the combo shows up on the screen - that ticket can be bought with an award redemption!


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## Larry H. (Jul 30, 2008)

All I know is what I was TOLD... He said the computer would not allow travel on the Cardinal on Tuesday! Now, maybe since his ability to explain, or even try to explain things was lacking, it might be that what was really happening was the train was showing sold out since when I tried to get rooms to come up myself they were mostly sold out. However I am NOT making up the fact that his explanation to me was that travel on the Cardinal was not possible using the combination of leaving from my home town in Illinois. He then said that sometimes certain trains will accept points on weekends where then won't during the week. So he checked and found a Saturday where they could have been used.

Frankly, As the customer I shouldn't have to be going though all this to book a simple round trip. It may well be his information was incorrect as your saying, and I have no reason to think your not right, I only know that I ask for Tuesdays or Thursdays and was told Points couldn't be used for those days on the Cardinal. I found it rather hard to believe my self, but he was unbudging in his attitude.


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## had8ley (Jul 31, 2008)

Larry;

When the location and date for the 2nd AU Forum was set I immediately called AGR with my itinerary. I was trying to include the Cardinal and do the "two-step" ticket but actually going through three zones. I was traveling from Slidell, LA to LA via Washington on the Cardinal. When the agent balked at the Cardinal I said I'd get off in Charlottsville and make the connection. His reply was, "No can do."

I talked to numerous other high mileage train travelers and they thought I picked the wrong day because the Cardinal is tri-weekly. Actually, I had picked a day the Sunset did not run out of NOL and a day that the Cardinal did run. For some reason someone is blocking this train; perhaps it's because the crew takes up quite a bit of the sleeper space on what I understand is only one Viewliner.


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## the_traveler (Jul 31, 2008)

had8ley said:


> perhaps it's because the crew takes up quite a bit of the sleeper space on what I understand is only one Viewliner.


Yes, that is exactly what I was going to say. The Cardinal operates with only 1 Viewliner, and part of that is occupied by the OBS! So there are *VERY* few rooms available for either paid or award travel.

One thing I do is pull up the routing online - first, before I call AGR! (They see the exact same screen that you do.) If you see a routing listed and available (with sleepers), you can book it using an AGR award! (If it's not shown, AGR can not book it piecemeal for the same award level.)

This way, I can tell the rep that I want to go from ___ to ___ using #6 & 50 or #8 & 50 or ... - they can not say that #50 does not have any roomettes available. (I can see them on my screen online while I'm taking to the rep!) Or that #50 is not available or running that day.


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## printman2000 (Jul 31, 2008)

In my recent and first redemption, I had already booked one roomette (purchased online) from Lamy to NYC via SWC & LSL. However, I had to do a multi city search as that combo does not come up on ANY Thursdays at amtrak.com.

When I called AGR, I suspect the same thing happened and that combo did not come up. I quickly told him I already had a ticket and wanted on these two trains and he was able to comply.

Perhaps, as it is with Amtrak, if you get someone who is not helpful, end your call and call back to talk with someone else.


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## Ghost (Aug 1, 2008)

If you make one segment of your trip paid thru Amtrak.com, and another segment of your trip points thru AGR, then then connections between those two segments are no longer guaranteed, right?


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## printman2000 (Aug 1, 2008)

Ghost said:


> If you make one segment of your trip paid thru Amtrak.com, and another segment of your trip points thru AGR, then then connections between those two segments are no longer guaranteed, right?


Right. Just as if you had made two separate reservations for two separate legs of a trip. If you do not reserve the legs together, they don't guarantee it.


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## the_traveler (Aug 1, 2008)

Ghost said:


> If you make one segment of your trip paid thru Amtrak.com, and another segment of your trip points thru AGR, then then connections between those two segments are no longer guaranteed, right?


I'm not sure, but you may be able to call Amtrak (not AGR) and have the 2 reservations combined. I don't know if it can be done with 1 AGR and 1 paid, but I believe it can be done with 2 paid reservations.


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## AlanB (Aug 1, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> Ghost said:
> 
> 
> > If you make one segment of your trip paid thru Amtrak.com, and another segment of your trip points thru AGR, then then connections between those two segments are no longer guaranteed, right?
> ...


I don't believe that they can be combined, but I do think that they can be tied together such that Amtrak sees the guaranteed connection.


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