# A Major Expansion Could Occur if Amtrak only did this.



## dlagrua (Aug 2, 2017)

It is said that it pays to advertise and that's what Amtrak needs to do right now. We are at a period in air travel where the seats have shrunken to as little as 16" wide and the legroom decreased to as little as 28". There is zero comfort sitting in a seat that small and sitting that tight for an extended period greatly increases the chances of a blood clot. Time for Amtrak to exploit this additional abuse of airlines passengers and advertise that people have comfortable seats on its trains. They should show what it is like for a heavy set person to be squeezed into an airline seat and show the same person sitting at his/her Amtrak seat with plenty of room, looking out the window while the scenery goes by and sipping a pina colada . The airlines has given Amtrak and opening and its time for management to exploit this violation of human rights with an advertising campaign. Slogan- " Don't travel like an animal on the airlines, travel in comfort as ladies and gentlemen do on Amtrak"


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## Ryan (Aug 2, 2017)

Trains are full as it is. Why waste money advertising more than they already do?

Also, any advertisements aren't going to belittle the millions of people that fly by calling them animals. That's reserved for the small minded people that either don't care or don't understand how insulting they're being.


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## BCL (Aug 2, 2017)

Right now in real terms it costs less for most people to fly than in history. Most leisure travelers will accept these things as long as the cost is low. Those who travel on business will probably have enough status that they often get upgrades to seats with more legroom or business/first as well as execs who get those always. On top of that Amtrak might even cost more. I get the sentiment, but we live in an era where air travel is still going to be the #1 way to travel longer distances.


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## keelhauled (Aug 2, 2017)

Today I learned getting a cheap airplane seat is a violation of my human rights. Who do I call here, the UN? Can I sue?


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## Eric S (Aug 2, 2017)

Or, you know, don't make ridiculous claims (violation of human rights?), insult potential passengers (calling them animals?), and generally act like it's the 1950s (ladies and gentlemen?).

In the relative handful of markets where Amtrak is a competitor to airlines for a nontrivial number of people, and where either there are empty seats on the train and/or low/weak yields (opportunity increase fares paid) - sure, come up with a clever (not insulting and anachronistic) campaign suggesting Amtrak as an alternative to flying. Elsewhere - airlines are not the competition.


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## west point (Aug 2, 2017)

Buy & put in service 100 single level LD cars a year for a couple years. Then continue the procurement. Then advertising will be needed but until then forget it !


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 2, 2017)

I agree with what others have said.

There may be planes with 16" wide seats and 28" pitch, but I've never seen them. I just booked a cross country flight utilizing 2 planes. The first on has 18.1" width seats and 30-31" pitch (I upgraded so I have 34" pitch, but I would have been ok with the 30-31". The second plane as a little narrower seat - 18"  and same pitch.


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## Ryan (Aug 2, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> There may be planes with 16" wide seats and 28" pitch, but I've never seen them.


Likely because they don't exist.


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## SarahZ (Aug 2, 2017)

First and foremost, you have to realize that many people do not have unlimited vacation time. Secondly, many business travelers, not to mention those traveling for funerals and family emergencies, are on a tight schedule.

Amtrak's seats may be comfortable, but they can't get people from Chicago to L.A. in under five hours, and Amtrak doesn't offer a choice of approximately 35 different departure times.

The key is: convenience.


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## jebr (Aug 2, 2017)

Amtrak really needs more passenger cars before I'd worry too much about an extensive advertising campaign.

Even with an advertising campaign, there's no need to be that blunt. A few years back, Amtrak did an ad showing kids "playing cars and planes" highlighting the frustrations people have and then showing a kid playing with a model Amtrak train and showing how relaxing it is:



For long distance travel on a national scale, Amtrak should focus on comfort and scenery, but there's no need to be explicit about traveling on the airlines - people already know, and Amtrak LD doesn't aim for that same market. The NEC has quite a bit of share already, so people know about it and it's just as much a matter of keeping your brand out there as anything else (when you're doing better than the airlines, no need to dig further at the airlines.)

As for small airline seats, Spirit definitely has some small seats, but they're comfortable enough for a short journey of a couple hours. I wouldn't want to do a BOS - LAX flight on one of those, but short flights are fine. The seats are usually narrower so there's more leg room than what the seat pitch sounds like (since seat pitch is measured from a point on the seat to the exact same point on the other seat, not accounting for variance in seat/cushion depth.) For their market and price point, it's expected and not "inhumane." And I'm a 6' 1" guy and...not light.


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## BCL (Aug 2, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I agree with what others have said.
> 
> There may be planes with 16" wide seats and 28" pitch, but I've never seen them. I just booked a cross country flight utilizing 2 planes. The first on has 18.1" width seats and 30-31" pitch (I upgraded so I have 34" pitch, but I would have been ok with the 30-31". The second plane as a little narrower seat - 18"  and same pitch.


Oh - there are planes with seating like that. They're called fighter jets.


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## SarahZ (Aug 2, 2017)

BCL said:


> Oh - there are planes with seating like that. They're called fighter jets.


I would give pretty much anything to fly in one of those. Double extra bonus if I get to take off from and land on an aircraft carrier.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 2, 2017)

SarahZ said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Oh - there are planes with seating like that. They're called fighter jets.
> ...


A most difficult and dangerous feat! 
The Late, Great Baseball Star, and Marine Pilot in WWII and Korea,Ted Williams, used to say that the two hardest things to do in the world were landing a plane on a Carrier @ Night and hitting a Major League Slider!


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## Skyline (Aug 3, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> "...They should show what it is like for a heavy set person to be squeezed into an airline seat and show the same person sitting at his/her Amtrak seat with plenty of room, looking out the window while the scenery goes by and sipping a pina colada ."


If only we could get a pina colada on an Amtrak train...


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 3, 2017)

That is called negative advertising, and it doesn't work very well. Beyond all the other points.

Also, can we have a board policy to ban click-bait style thread titles? I ate recently.


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## JayPea (Aug 3, 2017)

I much prefer the method of advertising Amtrak uses for its radio spots on Seahawks and Mariners games. In them, they simply tout the Cascades trains as an inexpensive and relaxed way of attending games rather than being stuck in traffic on I-5. Plus the fact the stadiums are a short walk from King St. Station. No need for them to insult those who do drive to games.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 3, 2017)

I agree with JayPea--the Phillies station has a good Amtrak ad (not to go to the game, but highlighting how convenient it is to get to so many places and the discount rate if you book 14 days in advance).

The best one I've heard lately, and something Amtrak could learn from, is a radio ad for SEPTA--it highlights that the ride is "me-time" to text Mom, nap like a boss, and a couple of other things, points out how relaxing it is, and makes you feel part of a group by saying "This is how we roll...go to [website name] to roll with us."

It puts a smile on my face every time I hear it  .


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## Long Train Runnin' (Aug 3, 2017)

SarahZ said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Oh - there are planes with seating like that. They're called fighter jets.
> ...


http://www.migflug.com/en/jet-fighter-flights.html


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## jis (Aug 3, 2017)

From 1985

https://www.facebook.com/thomas.byrne.796/videos/1353308371391012/

Hopefully all can see this....


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## railiner (Aug 3, 2017)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > BCL said:
> ...


Okay Sarah....here's your chance.... 

Nothing to lose, but about 12-19,000 Euros.....

Go For It!


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## SarahZ (Aug 3, 2017)

Yay!

Now I just have to win the Powerball jackpot.


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## Lonestar648 (Aug 4, 2017)

With many of the West Superliners trains sold out (Coach and Sleepers) during the summer and holidays why spend money for advertising to get more people being frustrated. Amtrak needs to increase capacity before doing more advertising. If Amtrak had more capacity, they could substantially increase the passenger load.


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## west point (Aug 4, 2017)

Remember that for any LD trip with 10 - 15 or more stops it only takes one leg sold out for the train to be sold out for your originations or arrivals. With more total spaces available the possibility of sell outs decreases. Get more capacity,


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## Lonestar648 (Aug 4, 2017)

True, but having just made a long trip on several trains, hearing the Conductors repeatedly asking Coach passengers not to spread out even though several people got off, they had every seat sold for departure, I am thinking that many of these trains are sold out for at least 50% of their departure stops, or like Reno there were a lot who got off, but a big crowd was waiting at the next stop.


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## StriderGDM (Aug 4, 2017)

The only way Amtrak will get a major expansion done is if it had a lot more equipment. They've gotten creative with expansion, but they really are hitting the limits of what they can do.

Advertising is not a bad idea, but let's get more equipment first.


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## railiner (Aug 5, 2017)

west point said:


> Remember that for any LD trip with 10 - 15 or more stops it only takes one leg sold out for the train to be sold out for your originations or arrivals. With more total spaces available the possibility of sell outs decreases. Get more capacity,


That's very true....but I believe the Space and Equipment Controller is supposed to monitor long haul trains, and close off sales in legs that could prevent longer trips being booked...they have some kind of algorithm to know when they can open up those segments on closer dates to departure...the end goal is to get the entire route fully booked if at all possible....


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## Lonestar648 (Aug 6, 2017)

Not sure how many wrecked units are at Beech Grove that can be essentially re-manufactured to go back in service. I think they had 8 on their 2017 plan. Any quantity is a help short term.


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## XHRTSP (Aug 6, 2017)

BCL said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with what others have said.
> ...


Actually I'm pretty sure you get more space in your average high performance jet than you do on Spirit. I don't know the exact numbers, but that's how I remember it from back when I flew those.


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## west point (Aug 6, 2017)

Lonestar648 said:


> Not sure how many wrecked units are at Beech Grove that can be essentially re-manufactured to go back in service. I think they had 8 on their 2017 plan. Any quantity is a help short term.


Here are the rebuilds at the locations from the May MPR.

1. Bear ---- 2 cars rebuilds scheduled and 1 complete.

2. Wilmington 0 locos 0

3. Beech 5 cars 4

5 locos 3 Complete


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## dlagrua (Sep 14, 2017)

Aside from my factitious remarks about air travel that are often taken literally; marketing and promotion is key to the success of any business. If we go back to the golden days of passenger rail there were billboard ads that said " relax in comfort, travel by train" .

My point is that very few people that I come in contact with, know anything about train travel. Most don't even know that it exists. Advertising usually results in a positive R.O.I. but if the trains are full as Ryan claims, then Amtrak doesn't need more business. I believe this claim is debatable.

Getting back to the seat size on aircraft vs Amtrak ; its obvious that train seats are wider and you have more legroom. Irrespective of of comfort level, you read online there is a lot of discussion about the relationship of seat size and the time it takes to evacuate in case of emergencies. I believe that this will continue to be a point of ongoing discussion.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 14, 2017)

Any assumption that change can happen on a massive scale anywhere if you only do one simple thing is a logical falsehood. The world is a complicated place and Amtrak in particular has a number of problems that are positively Byzantine. Friedman's Law of Unintended Consequences, Hofstadter's law, and Murphy's law are almost always guarenteed to apply to anything of this type.

Related:

Here's Why So Many Asinine Articles Start With Here's Why

Top Ten Reasons For Top Ten Lists

Eight Reasons For Click Bait Lists With A Number Other Than Ten

Seven Ways To Detect Click Bait

Clicking This Link Will Restore My Faith In Click Bait.

Scientists Baffled How Click Bait Successfully Changed Jounalisms Mantra To Not Bury The Lede


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## Hotblack Desiato (Sep 14, 2017)

You Wouldn't Believe What One AU Member Just Posted. What Someone Said In Response Will Shock You.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 14, 2017)

ROFL. 

I Know What You Clicked On Last Summer.


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## jis (Sep 14, 2017)

Not something that Cruz clicked on hopefully [emoji12]

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Metra Electric Rider (Sep 14, 2017)

jis said:


> Not something that Cruz clicked on hopefully [emoji12]
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


Ooooooooo!


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## Alexandria Nick (Sep 18, 2017)

dlagrua said:


> Aside from my factitious remarks about air travel that are often taken literally; marketing and promotion is key to the success of any business. If we go back to the golden days of passenger rail there were billboard ads that said " relax in comfort, travel by train" .
> 
> My point is that very few people that I come in contact with, know anything about train travel. Most don't even know that it exists. Advertising usually results in a positive R.O.I. but if the trains are full as Ryan claims, then Amtrak doesn't need more business. I believe this claim is debatable.
> 
> Getting back to the seat size on aircraft vs Amtrak ; its obvious that train seats are wider and you have more legroom. Irrespective of of comfort level, you read online* there is a lot of discussion about the relationship of seat size and the time it takes to evacuate in case of emergencies.* I believe that this will continue to be a point of ongoing discussion.


Seat size is a red herring on evacuation times. The overheads popping open and spilling contents everywhere, combined with all the electronics in the overheads basically dropping nets on people is what does it.


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## fredmcain (Sep 22, 2017)

Lonestar648 said:


> True, but having just made a long trip on several trains, hearing the Conductors repeatedly asking Coach passengers not to spread out even though several people got off, they had every seat sold for departure, I am thinking that many of these trains are sold out for at least 50% of their departure stops, or like Reno there were a lot who got off, but a big crowd was waiting at the next stop.


I have had many, many long-distance, cross country trips over the years and I can also say from experience that what you're saying it completely _TRUE_ ! Just see if you can find sleeping car space between Memorial Day and Labor Day or in November or December ! The "slow months" are only slightly better!

Why is it that these facts never seems to make it to the politicians in Congress? Too many of them _STILL_ believe that the long-distance business should be dispensed with 'cause "no one uses it". HUH? How can we as a nation have such a huge disconnect? Or, do they know what the truth is but reject it 'cause it's not in line with their own political agenda?


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## neroden (Oct 12, 2017)

fredmcain said:


> Why is it that these facts never seems to make it to the politicians in Congress? Too many of them _STILL_ believe that the long-distance business should be dispensed with 'cause "no one uses it". HUH? How can we as a nation have such a huge disconnect? Or, do they know what the truth is but reject it 'cause it's not in line with their own political agenda?


To be fair to Congress, nearly all of the Democrats and at least a third of the Republicans understand that Amtrak's so-called long-distance services are heavily used, which is why Amtrak's budget continues to be funded year after year.

As for the the Republicans who still don't understand this, facts of any sort seem unable to penetrate their brains. On any subject. These include people who think you can cut taxes, raise spending, and balance the budget simultaneously. You'll have to try something other than facts to influence these people, since they are essentially crazy. GML may have some ideas on how to manipulate them; the manipulation of the weak-minded ideologue is not my area of expertise.

Where facts would actually help is with a different group of Congresspeople. There are a number of Congressmen who recognize that Amtrak is heavily used but think that the trains are "losing lots of money" and that if they cut them it would "cost less money". This is simply untrue for the Eastern long-distance trains: it's clear that all of them are breakeven or better, and cancelling them would cost money. What Congress is funding is basically the fixed overhead costs of having any trains in the US at *all*.

However, Amtrak has *not* made this clear to Congress most of the time, with the honorable exception of one presentation by Boardman. Amtrak is not presenting its accounting in a way which makes the real situation clear. "Fully allocated" nonsense is obscuring this fact and confusing Congresspeople. It would be valuable for this group of Congresspeople to point out, very clearly, that the trains themselves make money but not enough to cover the overhead of the national reservations system, backshops, etc.

This seems to be an extremely difficult idea to get through the heads of idiots. There are a lot of people who think Tesla is "losing money on every car they sell". It's the same situation exactly, of course. They're making money on every car they sell, but not enough to cover fixed overhead. They need more volume to cover overhead. However, the vast majority of people seem totally unable to understand the concept.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 13, 2017)

Getting the average American, who can barely perform arrithmetic 2 years after finishing College or Algebra, to understand things like operating, capital, avoidable, and fully allocated costs is a laughable concept

Almost every person who was not in retail that Ive told that the basis of standard profit (I actually call less than this a loss) is a keystone (100% markup- I pay $5 and sell for $10) thinks Im ripping them off somehow. Or that me doing $700 in sales in a day is me getting rich ($270 in expenses means I need to sell $540 just to break even, so $700 is $160 over break even or $80 for a 12 hours- I could make more flipping burgers at Hardees.)


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 13, 2017)

Maybe NARP should make a video of charts and cartoons, to try to explain stuff and make the case for more Amtrak, lots more. It could play on YouTube and reach a good-sized audience.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 14, 2017)

I dont think NARP is good at that kind of thing. Or any kind of thing really.


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## Carolina Special (Oct 15, 2017)

I think a few AU members could do a better job on those YouTube videos. Any volunteers? [emoji4]

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## neroden (Oct 17, 2017)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Getting the average American, who can barely perform arrithmetic 2 years after finishing College or Algebra, to understand things like operating, capital, avoidable, and fully allocated costs is a laughable concept


What's sad is that the average Congressman appears to be no more numerate than the average American.
I've met *good* Congresspeople who are significantly more numerate than the average American. It would be nice if they had a majority.


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## jis (Oct 17, 2017)

I would also rather have NARP work towards advocating funding for passenger rail service of all sorts rather than act merely as an additional marketing outfit for Amtrak. Amtrak is the one that should produce the kind of material suggested above.


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## west point (Oct 17, 2017)

Most congress persons and all POLs in general cannot understand numbers/ Instead they understand how to convince many voters that their rhetoric is all true and then cannot deliver. Any examples ?


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## jis (Oct 17, 2017)

west point said:


> Most congress persons and all POLs in general cannot understand numbers/ Instead they understand how to convince many voters that their rhetoric is all true and then cannot deliver. Any examples ?


But the Congress persons' staff are often very knowledgeable and do understand numbers and all that. What one has to do is work with their staff and construct a presentation of the issues in a way that the Congress person can use constructively at the appropriate venues. I actually have a lot of respect for many of the Congressional staffers having worked with them for several years now, even of those Congresspeople whose core positions are completely opposed to many aspects of funding passenger rail. Even those are reasonably amenable to an argument made using solid numbers that actually affect their constituents. The current problem is meeting that "affect their constituents bar" in areas where there isn't much passenger rail. it is a bit of a chicken and egg problem in addition to changing the auto-centric mindset problem.


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## WoodyinNYC (Oct 17, 2017)

jis said:


> west point said:
> 
> 
> > Most congress persons and all POLs in general cannot understand numbers ...
> ...


I don't know when was the last clear-cut up or down vote on keeping vs slashing Amtrak. But it would be fun to map out the national system to see if the nay votes actually do come from unserved districts.

Well, I recall Sen McCain said Arizona didn't have any Amtrak service. I'd maybe forgive him for saying that if the only route was 3-days-a-week to Maricopa. But Arizona has that AND the relatively successful Southwest Chief.

Without actually doing such a map and comparison, I'll hazard that new, restored, or added service including, say, NYC-Charleston-Cincinnati-CHI increased to daily along with New Orleans-Houston/San Antonio-El Paso-Tucson-Maricopa-L.A. Then New Orleans-Orlando, Atlanta-Meridien-Dallas-Ft Worth, Denver-Omaha-Des Moines-CHI, NYC-Philly-Pittsburgh-Cleveland-CHI, a day train NYC-D.C.-Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte-Atlanta, CHI-St Paul-Fargo-Billings-Missoula-Spokane-Seattle, and perhaps several other routes would be viable.

(Numerous corridors such as Baton Rouge-New Orleans, New Orleans-Biloxi-Mobile, Columbus-Ft Wayne-Chicago, CHI-Indianapolis-Cincinnati/Louisville, CHI-Toledo-Cleveland, and CHI-Memphis would also be viable.

Yes, viable. In fact, set the barrier for added long distance trains as having a service plan that must meet or exceed Amtrak's average LD revenue-per-passenger and operating results before unallocated overhead. (Note that I admit to nothing in capital expenditures for these routes. We'll need another few Stimulus-sized appropriations at least.)

Such an expanded system would also decrease the number of voting critics as their districts gained service and Amtrak's revenues, passenger totals, and operating results improved.


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## neroden (Oct 18, 2017)

I think NARP at one point produced a map showing how Congresspeople voted on a pretty clear up-or-down Amtrak vote, by district. While I expected nothing from the Wyoming representatives, there really were a surprising number of doctrinaire anti-Amtrak votes who had well-used stations in their districts, and quite a few Amtrak supporters with no station anywhere near their district. I'd like to see a more recent version of that map, but it seems to be a lot of work to create (unless there's a tool online where you can plug in a particular Congressional vote and get a map to pop out -- there might be but I don't know of one).


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## jis (Oct 19, 2017)

The problem outside the traditional Amtrak support areas is that if one is lucky to have a representative who supports Amtrak for whatever reason that is great. OTOH, if there is a rep that does not support Amtrak for doctrinaire reason, there is not enough of a group of Amtrak customers in his/her district to have much of an effect on him/her. Just having a little station in district is not enough. Having significant salary or other commercial spend in the district helps much more. And there is a rather broadly believed doctrine among many Americans that government running anything (except their highways of course) is bad. Ergo Amtrak is bad. So there is ready fertile ground for the antis to establish credibility for themselves on the subject. That in a nutshell is the problem.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Oct 19, 2017)

If I had to guess whether a Congress critter would support Amtrak or not the stereotypes would be...

a) Does Amtrak "serve" my state/district (when I say serve, it means frequency, time, to what cities)? Also, what other transportation options. Philly probably doesn't care as much about Amtrak while Amtrak means everything to Rugby, ND. I think it would make sense that Amtrak would have more support in rural areas with no airports nearby than urban areas.

b) Party lines when it comes to budget fights. I'm not saying it's right or makes sense but when do battles in Congress ever make sense. I know I'm treading the political lines here but you wonder if pro Amtrak vs. anti Amtrak is party lines. We do know of Republicans that do support Amtrak and I do guess they are in category a). Ironically, Republican support stereo-typically tends to be stronger in rural areas and Democratic support in urban areas.


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## PRR 60 (Oct 21, 2017)

A bunch of off-topic posts have been moved to a new Lounge topic that can be found here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/71708-types-of-republicans/


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## cpotisch (Mar 15, 2018)

dlagrua said:


> It is said that it pays to advertise and that's what Amtrak needs to do right now. We are at a period in air travel where the seats have shrunken to as little as 16" wide and the legroom decreased to as little as 28". There is zero comfort sitting in a seat that small and sitting that tight for an extended period greatly increases the chances of a blood clot. Time for Amtrak to exploit this additional abuse of airlines passengers and advertise that people have comfortable seats on its trains. They should show what it is like for a heavy set person to be squeezed into an airline seat and show the same person sitting at his/her Amtrak seat with plenty of room, looking out the window while the scenery goes by and sipping a pina colada . The airlines has given Amtrak and opening and its time for management to exploit this violation of human rights with an advertising campaign. Slogan- " Don't travel like an animal on the airlines, travel in comfort as ladies and gentlemen do on Amtrak"


A couple things:


I don't think *dlagrua* meant to say that people who fly are animals, but rather that the airlines treat them like animals. That said, that phrasing could very easily be taken as saying that the passengers ARE animals, so it is rather risky for an advertisement trying to attract those people. That problem is exacerbated by the 'ladies and gentleman' line, as that really does seem to imply that civilized people only travel Amtrak, and comes across as somewhat smug/superior. It sort of says "You the airlines, so you're not a proper gentleman", you know?
Additionally, Amtrak doesn't offer drinks like pina coladas, and while the message you're going for is 'just sit back and relax', it could be misleading as to the type of service one gets on Amtrak.
Showing a 'heavy set' person squeezed into an airline seat could be taken as offensive and downright bizarre, and in some ways might indicate that Amtrak is focused on overweight people, as opposed to just accommodating them.
Just my thoughts.


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## jis (Mar 15, 2018)

It is doubly bizarre because airlines actually do serve complementary alcoholic beverages in First Class and Business Class, Amtrak does so only in First Class in one corridor.

At the end of the day Amtrak's real competition is the automobile, and planes only in short to medium corridors. Until Amtrak realizes that and act accordingly there will be no redemption. It will be a long time coming before most people would sped 6 days of their short vacation traveling from coast to coast by train rather than doing so in 6 hours each way and getting R&R time at their vacation destination in the time saved by flying. It is even more galling when it is equal in cost or cheaper to save 2.5 days of your time.


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## SarahZ (Mar 15, 2018)

jis said:


> At the end of the day Amtrak's real competition is the automobile, and planes only in short to medium corridors. Until Amtrak realizes that and act accordingly there will be no redemption.
> 
> *It will be a long time coming before most people would spend 6 days of their short vacation traveling from coast to coast by train rather than doing so in 6 hours each way and getting R&R time at their vacation destination in the time saved by flying. It is even more galling when it is equal in cost or cheaper to save 2.5 days of your time.*


 Once again for those in the back.

I fail to understand why so many people cannot seem to grasp this concept.


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## Ryan (Mar 15, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I don't think *dlagrua* meant to say that people who fly are animals,


You're new here. He very much means to say that. It's kind of one of this things. We're apparently boot-lickers too, for submitting to violation by the dreaded TSA.


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