# America’s Streetcar Renaissance



## MrFSS (May 15, 2009)

Streetcars were a common sight in U.S. cities at the beginning of the 20th century, but by the 1960s, they had been wiped out, usually replaced by buses deemed cheaper to operate and more comfortable. A few cities like San Francisco and New Orleans preserved several of their lines and continued to run historic trolley cars.Until recently, though, there has been little interest in the United States in building new street-running train networks, with communities more likely to focus on faster — but more expensive — light rail transit systems, which operate in their own rights-of-way.

Full story and charts *HERE*.


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## PetalumaLoco (May 15, 2009)

I remember the old Key System in the SF bay area. Even when it ran on the lower deck of the bay bridge.

wikipedia Key System


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## PetalumaLoco (May 15, 2009)

My home town of Petaluma has a group that wants to resurrect a trolley car system.

Petaluma Trolley Project


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## TampAGS (May 31, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> Streetcars were a common sight in U.S. cities at the beginning of the 20th century, but by the 1960s, they had been wiped out, usually replaced by buses *deemed cheaper to operate and more comfortable*.


*Cheaper and more comfortable** according to whom?* Streetcars were "wiped out", alright, but it wasn't due to buses having some inherent superiority of economy or comfort. The article makes it sound like nixing America's streetcar systems was just the logical next step in America's modernization. They might have at least mentioned the Great American Streetcar Scandal and the role that corporations from the automobile, rubber, oil, and construction industries had in the sytematic eradication of street-level rail from American cities.  :angry:

 

Streetcars were re-introduced to Tampa after a 56-year absence in 2002. The original system carried as many as 24 million passengers annually and spread throughout the city and beyond, helping to create Tampa's first "suburbs" (which eventually became part of the city... including my neighborhood, where streetcars ran just three blocks from my house). 

 

The current system is a faint but hopeful echo of the original with around 435,000 passengers a year, mostly tourists and convention goers. Work on Phase II will soon begin, which will bring in riders from the downtown business district. The new cars are really quite beautiful, featuring gorgeous woodwork and details. They are larger sized replicas of the Birney cars that serviced the original line (of which one example survived to be restored and put back into service), and their numbers begin where the old system's car numbers left off.

*Tampa Electric Streetcar System*


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## AlanB (May 31, 2009)

TampAGS said:


> The current system is a faint but hopeful echo of the original with around 435,000 passengers a year, mostly tourists and convention goers. Work on Phase II will soon begin, which will bring in riders from the downtown business district. The new cars are really quite beautiful, featuring gorgeous woodwork and details. They are larger sized replicas of the Birney cars that serviced the original line (of which one example survived to be restored and put back into service), and their numbers begin where the old system's car numbers left off.
> 
> *Tampa Electric Streetcar System*


The new cars are indeed quite nice and very well done. The OTOL gang last summer actually got a tour of the shops and we got to step onto the only original Birney car left on TECO property. If you're curious, you can read about that adventure and see a picture of some of the group stepping onto the Birney here. Scroll down to chapter 4.2 for the start of the Teco adventures.


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## birdy (Jun 1, 2009)

They are trying to install one in Albuquerque. Unfortunately they just pillory the mayor about it. One would think with the successful Railrunner deployment and two recently hugely sucessful projects on either side of the city (Dallas and Phoenix) the pols would have the benefit of the doubt.


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## TampAGS (Jun 6, 2009)

AlanB said:


> TampAGS said:
> 
> 
> > *Tampa Electric Streetcar System*
> ...


I was impressed at how accomodating the TECO Line VP was to your group. That was pretty great of him to meet you with the private car before the system's normal hours began, then go further by chaufeuring you all to Union Station after the conclusion of your tour of the car-barn/garage. It is nice to see that level of responsiveness and "rail-to-rail" service from one of my local officials.

 

Did he happen to discuss or explain why the line does not include a stop at Union Station? The resulting lack of intermodality between the streetcar and Amtrak is something I find rather irksome.


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## AlanB (Jun 6, 2009)

TampAGS said:


> I was impressed at how accomodating the TECO Line VP was to your group. That was pretty great of him to meet you with the private car before the system's normal hours began, then go further by chaufeuring you all to Union Station after the conclusion of your tour of the car-barn/garage. It is nice to see that level of responsiveness and "rail-to-rail" service from one of my local officials.
> 
> Did he happen to discuss or explain why the line does not include a stop at Union Station? The resulting lack of intermodality between the streetcar and Amtrak is something I find rather irksome.


Yes, he really did go above and beyond to accomodate our group and he was quite knowledgable about the history of the line and its operations. Definately not someone who just moves papers across his desk without ever really paying attention.

And no he didn't discuss a lack of a stop at Union Station, at least that I'm aware of. Perhaps someone asked privately. But frankly I'm not sure that it really occured to any of us to ask, since putting in such a stop would require a 3 block (6 round trip) detour from its route.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 6, 2009)

AlanB said:


> And no he didn't discuss a lack of a stop at Union Station, at least that I'm aware of. Perhaps someone asked privately. But frankly I'm not sure that it really occured to any of us to ask, since putting in such a stop would require a 3 block (6 round trip) detour from its route.


It appears to me that Amtrak's route probably crosses TECO's about half a mile to the northeast of Tampa Union Station, though. Building a vaguely Secaucus like station there might be possible.


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## AlanB (Jun 6, 2009)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > And no he didn't discuss a lack of a stop at Union Station, at least that I'm aware of. Perhaps someone asked privately. But frankly I'm not sure that it really occured to any of us to ask, since putting in such a stop would require a 3 block (6 round trip) detour from its route.
> ...


Since the crossing of those two lines is a diamond, any stop by Amtrak would esentially shut down the TECO line for the duration of the stop. And considering how unpredictable Amtrak's arrivals are, that would create a problem for TECO.

And stop far enough away would mean that people would have to walk at least two blocks, maybe more. I'm not real sure just how far away the block signal is that would shut down TECO.

Besides the amount of people arriving on Amtrak and transferring to TECO isn't very high. Most people on Amtrak have luggage and just take a cab or have someone picking them up. Perhaps if, and that's a big IF, Tampa gets its act together and installs LRT or additional street car lines, then maybe trying to figure out a way to connect the two might become practical. But for the moment, I'd bet that the OTOL gang probably represented half the transfers from Amtrak to TECO last year.

And I'm not trying to take anything away from TECO. They run a very nice operation, one that is growing in terms of ridership and it does provide a nice way to move around if you're close enough to it. They run their operation on a small budget, with some help from a charity, and all the employees that we encountered were a class act. But the Amtrak-TECO transfers just aren't there and I doubt that there would be enough people making such a transfer to consider trying to build an extra stop. Besides, I can't imagine Amtrak agreeing to make such a stop.


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## TampAGS (Jun 9, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Joel N. Weber II said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


No, I agree for Amtrak to create a special stop as such would border on farcical, especially considering the average length of the _Silver Star_. By the time its engines reach the diamond, its rear cars will have just cleared the fence around TUS yard. We already have the whole stub-end approach/wye turnaround process to deal with at Tampa. We don't need anything added to create further confusion for passengers or opportunities for delay. 

 

The TECO Line may be labelled "historic", but with the exception of car #163, none of the line's current infrastructure even existed before 2000. Union Station should have been considered when the line was first laid out. Sure, it's three miles out of the way of the current track as laid. You have to realize that the TECO Line's *entire route* was "out of the way". Nearly every foot of track currently running north-south (I would estimate around 50% of the line) was laid for the express purpose of connecting the *waterfront *(Convention Center and Channelside) with *Ybor City*. The distance between the two is far longer than a mere 3 blocks. It's evident just from looking at the system's map, and the great stretch of track in the middle upon which no stations are built (even the stations nearest that section don't see much ridership). That length is how "out of the way" HART was willing to go to bridge Ybor and the waterfront.

 

I can't understand how when they planned the route between those two destinations they totally ignored the fact that with a slight westward deviation in their course, they could solidly link with a major portal of entry to the city, providing a means of seamless transfer of riders onto their streetcar. The lack of foresight is doubly incredulous considering the line's primary ridership is not locals but tourists and convention goers. If Union Station were an airport, still with its same total passengers, you can't tell me that somebody wouldn't have lost their job for failing to plan a streetcar stop there, given its proximity. 

 

The nearby cruise terminals and Tampa's growing significance as a cruise port are added reasons such consideration should have been made. A seamless rail journey from passengers' home cities directly to their port of embarkation would be easy to market to a public weary of weighing the usual options of airport transfers or rental cars.

 

Your group probably did represent half the total transfers from Amtrak to TECO last year. Only a rail enthusiast would make that kind of schlep! I can only hope that when TBARTA lays out their light-rail route, that connectivity to both Union Station and the TECO Line is made a priority at some point before incorporating such connections becomes impractical.


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## AlanB (Jun 9, 2009)

TampAGS said:


> The distance between the two is far longer than a mere 3 blocks. It's evident just from looking at the system's map, and the great stretch of track in the middle upon which no stations are built (even the stations nearest that section don't see much ridership). That length is how "out of the way" HART was willing to go to bridge Ybor and the waterfront.


Ok, I exagerated a bit.  It's more like a 4-1/2 - 5 block walk between the two.


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