# walking from one car to the other



## Rail Freak (Aug 16, 2008)

I've read about having hard sole shoes when walking thru the different cars. What's the area between cars called & what type of shoe & why?


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## the_traveler (Aug 16, 2008)

The area outside the inside door of the coach or sleeper is the vestibule. I'm not sure of the name of the actual connection between the cars.

Really *ANY* shoes should be worn when going between cars. But you should try to avoid wearing open-toed shoes (like sandals). The reason is the plate between the cars can bounce around, and lift or drop some (since each car is separate), and you don't want to get you toes caught between the 2 plates! 

The important thing when walking is to hold on, or at least be ready to grab on to something (like a grab bar, wall or seat back)!


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## Rail Freak (Aug 16, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> The area outside the inside door of the coach or sleeper is the vestibule. I'm not sure of the name of the actual connection between the cars.
> Really *ANY* shoes should be worn when going between cars. But you should try to avoid wearing open-toed shoes (like sandals). The reason is the plate between the cars can bounce around, and lift or drop some (since each car is separate), and you don't want to get you toes caught between the 2 plates!
> 
> The important thing when walking is to hold on, or at least be ready to grab on to something (like a grab bar, wall or seat back)!


With my feet, I wouldn't feel it :blink: . Seriously, I have a pair of moccasins with about 1/8 '' of hard rubber sole. That should be safe?

PS I'm glad my trip is approaching as I'm runnin low on questions!!!

:lol:


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## sky12065 (Aug 16, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> With my feet, I wouldn't feel it :blink: . Seriously, I have a pair of moccasins with about 1/8 '' of hard rubber sole. That should be safe?PS I'm glad my trip is approaching as I'm runnin low on questions!!!
> 
> :lol:


I don't know! I don't think moccasins are going to protect you very much. You gotta make sure you're safe and toe the line here! (Go ahead and throw the eggs on that last comment. I'm ready to duck!) :unsure:


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## the_traveler (Aug 16, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> Seriously, I have a pair of moccasins with about 1/8 '' of hard rubber sole. That should be safe?PS I'm glad my trip is approaching as I'm runnin low on questions!!!
> 
> :lol:


Yes - just keep an eye on your feet. You never know when the train may bounce or sway!

Maybe you running low on questions, but we are not running low on answers! Besides, after your trip you may have more questions for your *next trip* and the *next trip* and ...!


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 16, 2008)

I wouldn't say you need hard-sole shoes. Just be careful. By the way, the term is "Diaphragm"


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## Alice (Aug 16, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > The area outside the inside door of the coach or sleeper is the vestibule. I'm not sure of the name of the actual connection between the cars.
> ...


I walk with crutches. Between cars, there are grab bars on each car. So I open the first door, grab the first grab bar, step both feet to the middle of that plate, grab the next grab bar while holding on to the first one, step with both feet to the second plate, release the first grab bar, open the second door, step into the car and back to crutches. It is all very deliberate, in other words paying attention to what I am doing and where my feet are. People tell me I'm brave for walking around the train with crutches but I'm probably more stable than many of them because I essentially have 4 feet and keep 3 of them on the ground or on grab bars when we are moving (no shortcuts). I would say that you should keep your feet away from dangerous edges and wear shoes that won't fall off and trip you up, and the 1/8 " sole is fine.


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## librarian (Aug 16, 2008)

In addition to needing proper shoes when passing from car to car on the train, a good sole on shoes is essential in case the train would go into emergency braking. A person in stocking feet could go sliding down the aisle, having no footing if the train suddenly braked.

I was in a sleeper when someone wearing flip flops started down the stairway and ended up in a heap at the bottom as they got tangled up on the narrow curving steps.

A Worker's Compensation Workshop that I attended stated that the most common injury in the offices of America relates to improper footware, resulting in injury to toes and ankles.


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## Tony (Aug 16, 2008)

Plus there are two sets of door opening buttons on the vestibule doors.

An upper one for your hand, and a lower one for your foot. I assume it is easier to "kick" the lower one, when you have shoes with solid toes.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 16, 2008)

Tony said:


> Plus there are two sets of door opening buttons on the vestibule doors.
> An upper one for your hand, and a lower one for your foot. I assume it is easier to "kick" the lower one, when you have shoes with solid toes.


The kick ones have attention deficit disorder. I wouldn't use them. Probably from too much contact with steel toe boots.


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## RRrich (Aug 16, 2008)

I'm from New York City - then I went to Boston. In both cities, kids with whatever footwear went from car to car on the subway without a thought.

I was on Amtrak in Crocs - lightweight rubber shoes - walking from car to car without any problem.

*STOP WORRYING* you're going to have a great time


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## Joel N. Weber II (Aug 16, 2008)

RRrich said:


> I'm from New York City - then I went to Boston. In both cities, kids with whatever footwear went from car to car on the subway without a thought.


I thought passengers aren't allowed to go from one car to another on the subway via doors at the front/back of the car while the train is moving on any of the Boston subway lines. Unless you're talking about walking between the portions of the articulated Green Line cars.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Aug 16, 2008)

Alice said:


> People tell me I'm brave for walking around the train with crutches but I'm probably more stable than many of them because I essentially have 4 feet and keep 3 of them on the ground or on grab bars when we are moving (no shortcuts).


I tend to avoid being in contact with more than one car at a time.


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## RRrich (Aug 16, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> I thought passengers aren't allowed to go from one car to another on the subway via doors at the front/back of the car while the train is moving on any of the Boston subway lines. Unless you're talking about walking between the portions of the articulated Green Line cars.


Firstly, I was in Boston in the early to mid 1960s

Secondly, I've had a drink or two -

You may be right about Boston, but I am sure that 50 or 60 years ago you could walk thru the New York subway trains.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 16, 2008)

Its frowned upon, but I've never seen anyone harangued for doing it, and believe me, people do it. On the NYC subway, I mean.


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## sechs (Aug 16, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> By the way, the term is "Diaphragm"


The space between the cars is a vestibule.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 17, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> By the way, the term is "Diaphragm"


The guy in this post says it's the vestibule; (Post #8)

I think the diaphragm is the end of the car. 2 joined diaphragms make a vestibule. At least that's what I make of it.


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## AlanB (Aug 17, 2008)

RRrich said:


> You may be right about Boston, but I am sure that 50 or 60 years ago you could walk thru the New York subway trains.





Green Maned Lion said:


> Its frowned upon, but I've never seen anyone harangued for doing it, and believe me, people do it. On the NYC subway, I mean.


Up until maybe five years ago at max (I think that it's really like 3 years, but I'm not positive), walking between two subway cars while the train was in motion was simply frowned upon. Now it is illegal to do so and a cop can give you a ticket for doing so if he/she sees you. One can still walk between the cars when the train is stopped in a station, assuming that you find a train where the doors aren't locked.

Of course the above rule creates some confusion for people, since it isn't illegal to walk between the cars of a Metro North train, an LIRR train, and even a NJT train. On the other hand it is against the rules, if not a law, to walk between the cars of a moving SEPTA train.

It has been illegal to ride in the vestibules for probably 15 to 20 years, if not longer, on an NYC subway train.


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## sky12065 (Aug 17, 2008)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, the term is "Diaphragm"
> ...


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Aug 17, 2008)

sechs said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, the term is "Diaphragm"
> ...



This is correct, but needs to be clarified a little more. Actually the area which is on the exterior side of the end door is known as the "vestibule" of the railcar even if it is just a little step on the other side. On the Amfleet equipment for example, the A end is the area where the electrical closet and pillow storage closet is located and ending on the plate and the diaphram on that end. And on the B end of the car is where the entry/exit doors of the car are located (along with the hand brake wheel on the wall under one of the grab irons). The diaphram is located just beyond that point as well completing that end. When two cars are coupled together, then the diaphrams should match up or be matched up to complete the passage way thus extending the vestibule into one common area. The diaphram is just the part which connects the two separate vestibules into one.

The main reason why you are not supposed to ride in a vestibule is simple. Passenger rail cars are designed with their weakest points at the ends of the cars (similar to your automobile). This allows carbody itself to take less of the impact in the case of some kind of collision. You do not want to be in a vestibule if the train goes into emergency, especially if the train is involved in a serious collision or derails. When you are passing through the diaphram portion of a vestibule, remember that right below you are the knuckle couplers (literally you are on the plate or bridge over the outside and in between two railcars). And Amtrak considers you as being outside of the car if you are not inside the carbody except if you are using that "bridge" for its sole purpose. In serious accidents railcars can uncouple and if a collision is involved the vestibule areas will crumple depending on the force of impact. The car ahead of you stops suddenly, then your car is going to run into the back of it. And if the trains slack is still stretched out at the time of impact then it is even that much more forceful. Rough slack action itself without any incident is enough to throw you off balance and to the floor! Someone like Had8ley who is much more experienced (from an engineer's standpoint) in train handling can go into detail about slack action and its effects. But anyway, you are safer in the carbody rather than the vestibule as that is the way it's designed. Only be in the vestibule during boarding and detraining, and while passing through to get to the next car especially while the train is moving!

OBS gone freight...


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 17, 2008)

On the subject of slack, how often, if ever, have coupler knuckles on passenger trains been broken due to bad slack management? I know they are rated to something like 500,000 lbs. and as short as a passenger train is, slack shouldn't be too much a problem from that point of view, but a few times I have been snapped back into my seat at slow speeds when brakes are suddenly released or applied and you can literally feels the couplers snapping together.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 17, 2008)

Perhaps you are right in todays terms, but in my research, I found that a Vestibule refers to the enclosed section where the entrance doors are as opposed to older cars from the 1800s which didn't have vestibules, but rather open platforms. Since certain commuter equipment does not even have connected diaphragms, I would tend to think that it would not actually be considered part of the vestibule. But obviously, OBS, you know more since you work on modern equipment rather than my academia.


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