# Amtrak Autumn Excursion 2016 - 10/29 & 30 - Confirmed



## George R (Sep 27, 2016)

Any info on this?

From NYP on Oct 29 & 30


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## pennyk (Sep 27, 2016)

Did you see anything in writing confirming this? If so, please provide a link.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 27, 2016)

pennyk said:


> Did you see anything in writing confirming this? If so, please provide a link.


It a rumor, but a rumor that has appeared in several places. NYP to Harrisburg via the NS Lehigh Line, then back on the Keystone Line and NEC. It makes for an interesting motive power issue, but a couple of NJT Dual Modes would solve that. They have lots of them available on weekends.
This could be one source being quoted multiple times, so the multiple sources may mean nothing, but if there is going to be a trip before the leaves actually fall, it's about time for something to be announced.


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## jis (Sep 27, 2016)

In anticipation I have just put a good first class round trip air reservation on hold for a week  Hope we hear something concrete within a week. Otherwise I will have cycle another hold next week.


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## pennyk (Sep 27, 2016)

jis said:


> In anticipation I have just put a good first class round trip air reservation on hold for a week  Hope we hear something concrete within a week. Otherwise I will have cycle another hold next week.


.... and I have a Silver Meteor reservation on hold.


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## jis (Sep 27, 2016)

As for engine, they could also do something quite radical, like change engine at Newark. Or to make it more fun take the M&E to Dover, change engine there and then take the Washington Secondary to get to the Lehigh Line via Hackettstown. Nah. They will probably just do the otherwise abandoned trip to Allentown, just past Allentown through Reading to Harrisburg. They could Wye the train by the Rockville Bridge and then change engine at Harrisburg for the return trip.

Or to make everyone's life infinitely simpler, just run the trip Newark to Newark.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 27, 2016)

That would be great! I will coincidentally be in Long Island that weekend. How long would this trip take? What passenger equipment do they use?


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## Sproutis (Sep 27, 2016)

Eep!


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## TylerP42 (Sep 27, 2016)

I'm gonna just make a nice little post here to keep this thread bookmarked. I am super excited, honestly this may be the first time I can go on one of these!


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## acelafan (Sep 28, 2016)

Here ya go:

https://www.amtrak.com/fall-foliage-aboard-the-autumn-express-train

Saturday and Sunday, October 29 and 30, 2016


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Oh good. I will be able to get the go-nogo decision based on whether I get a ticket for Saturday before my one week window of fare hold on my air ticket expires.

Since it is an Amtrak operation my guess is they will actually switch engines at Newark, and on the return they will do so at Harrisburg, given that Philly is bypassed through the subway and there is mention of high speed run back to Newark.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 28, 2016)

When do tickets go on sale?


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## acelafan (Sep 28, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> When do tickets go on sale?


Tickets go on sale Monday, October 3 at 10:00 am ET


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 28, 2016)

acelafan said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > When do tickets go on sale?
> ...


Ok. What is the cost and schedule for the train? Sorry if the info is in the link, I can not access it.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

So what might Mr. Moorman have to do with getting permission to run an excursion on a track where one was denied permission with much lecturing just a few weeks back?


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

$149.

Out of NYP at 8am back at 6:30pm. Includes boxed lunch.


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## KnightRail (Sep 28, 2016)

Tickets go on sale Monday, October 3 at 10:00 am ET, details @

Fall Foliage Aboard the Autumn Express Train

A long sleeve thermal shirt can be ordered for a very limited time @ Autumn Express 2016 Shirt


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## KnightRail (Sep 28, 2016)

jis said:


> Already being discussed at:
> 
> http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/69036-amtrak-autumn-excursion-2016/


Seeing that is in the 'guest forum for Amtrak questions', doesn't seem like the appropriate place for such a topic. Mods can merge/move as they see appropriate.


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## PRR 60 (Sep 28, 2016)

KnightRail said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Already being discussed at:
> ...


Topics merged.


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## neroden (Sep 28, 2016)

Oh damn. This is very tempting. The schedule even works. The required 2 nights in NYC == expensive, however.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 28, 2016)

neroden said:


> Oh damn. This is very tempting. The schedule even works. The required 2 nights in NYC == expensive, however.


I don't need to overnight in NYC, but I do need to get up darn early to catch a train before 5 am.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

neroden said:


> Oh damn. This is very tempting. The schedule even works. The required 2 nights in NYC == expensive, however.


You can stay at the Newark Penn Station Hilton for something like $118 a night. Much cheaper possibilities at Newark Airport too. And even in New York as I seem to recall.

I am staying at the Newark Penn Station hilton since I will be flying into Newark and they have a free shuttle.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

You can get a commemorative shirt at:

http://amtrak.bnr.corpmerchandise.com/ProductList.aspx?

Though you actually get it after the trip.


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## neroden (Sep 28, 2016)

The hotel bills still end up costing twice as much as the excursion. So it's a $450 trip. I'll probably do it anyway if I'm healthy enough.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 28, 2016)

You could also take a night train to/from NYP from WAS (#150 or #66) or BOS (#65) and sleep on the train (Biz, Class is Worth it!)

Of course hanging out in NYP at night isn't ideal ( the price is right!) but since NYC never closes you could cruise around on the subway or walk around Manhattan like so many do to kill time.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

well, If I remember right, neroden would be coming in from Syracuse. There is no viable train which he can take and avoid a hotel stay in New York.


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## Peripatetica (Sep 28, 2016)

Uh-oh. Various leaf color maps show that it'll be "past peak" color by then.

Peripatetica


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Some of us really don't care what color the leaves are  It is all about the rare mileage


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## SarahZ (Sep 28, 2016)

neroden said:


> Oh damn. This is very tempting. The schedule even works. The required 2 nights in NYC == expensive, however.


Ditto, even if I take an evening flight home. Still. Bookmarking anyway.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Sep 28, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> Topics merged.


Should this not have been merged into the already existing thread here about an attempt to have a special Amtrak Excursion trip thru Allentown, Allentown Service? That's where it started about NS forcing Amtrak's Excursion trip to be cancelled. Now that it is back on, IMHO, any discussion really belong there.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 28, 2016)

What is the latest possible to arrive at NYP before departure? My hotel is in Patchogue and the first train arrives from Patchogue at 7:39 AM, only 21 minutes before departure. I know NYP well so I'm sure I could get across the station in 5 minutes or less, but would that be too late? The Ronkonkoma and Babylon branches both have arrivals just before 7, but I don't know if I will have transportation to those stations. There is also an 8:07-8:25 NJT train to Newark, arriving 5 minutes before departure there. If NYP closes boarding too early, would that work?


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## fairviewroad (Sep 28, 2016)

I wonder how this compares to previous excursions in terms of actual rare mileage. Because the latter half of the trip (aside from the relatively short Zoo subway) will all be on tracks currently in Amtrak revenue service. Nothing terribly special about going from Harrisburg to NYP on the Keystone route.

2013: PHL-Perryville-Harrisburg-Columbia-Lancaster-PHL, where IIRC the entire run from Perryville-Lancaster via Harrisburg and Columbia was "rare."

2014: PHL-Harrisburg and back, almost entirely via rare mileage.

2015: Circle trip departing Albany to parts of New England...almost entirely on rare mileage, IIRC

It would seem as though the 2016 version will be among the lowest in terms of rare mileage percentage, but I would still definitely go if given the chance. I live too far away for it to be practical, though. Speaking of which, what about an Autumn Express in a different part of the country, Amtrak?


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > Topics merged.
> ...


This is not that trip. This is the Autumn Excursion trip and has nothing to do with restoring service to Allentown.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2016)

jis said:


> Some of us really don't care what color the leaves are  It is all about the rare mileage


Absolutely! In fact, the less leaves, the better for viewing.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> What is the latest possible to arrive at NYP before departure? My hotel is in Patchogue and the first train arrives from Patchogue at 7:39 AM, only 21 minutes before departure. I know NYP well so I'm sure I could get across the station in 5 minutes or less, but would that be too late? The Ronkonkoma and Babylon branches both have arrivals just before 7, but I don't know if I will have transportation to those stations. There is also an 8:07-8:25 NJT train to Newark, arriving 5 minutes before departure there. If NYP closes boarding too early, would that work?


That is cutting it way too close...it's not like you could just wait a while for the next one, if you miss it...

I would find a way to connect to an earlier LIRR train.


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## Seaboard92 (Sep 28, 2016)

I could be tempted but where can I find a next to nothing hotel in New York. That's the part that has me wondering.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2016)

fairviewroad said:


> I wonder how this compares to previous excursions in terms of actual rare mileage. Because the latter half of the trip (aside from the relatively short Zoo subway) will all be on tracks currently in Amtrak revenue service. Nothing terribly special about going from Harrisburg to NYP on the Keystone route.
> 
> 2013: PHL-Perryville-Harrisburg-Columbia-Lancaster-PHL, where IIRC the entire run from Perryville-Lancaster via Harrisburg and Columbia was "rare."
> 
> ...


You make very good points, I agree.

Too bad they couldn't use some other freight only routes on the return, such as some of the Trenton Cutoff ( I guess parts are now gone), or the old Reading "Crusader" route via West Trenton and Bound Brook...


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I could be tempted but where can I find a next to nothing hotel in New York. That's the part that has me wondering.


Lots available around $100 price point per night. Pickings start getting slim below $75.


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## jebr (Sep 28, 2016)

There's a few hostels if you're willing to share a room with a few other people that are cheaper. Stayed at one in Long Island City (just across the river from Manhattan) for around $35-$40/night.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

railiner said:


> You make very good points, I agree.
> 
> Too bad they couldn't use some other freight only routes on the return, such as some of the Trenton Cutoff ( I guess parts are now gone), or the old Reading "Crusader" route via West Trenton and Bound Brook...


That would add substantially to the complexity of organizing the trip since it pulls in at least one and possibly two or even three additional railroads into the mix.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 28, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I could be tempted but where can I find a next to nothing hotel in New York. That's the part that has me wondering.


See my post about riding night trains to NYP and either hanging in NYP or touring Manhattan via subway or onfoot.

Jis'posts about NY area Hotels sounds ideal and also maybe someone would like to share a Hotel, we do that often at AU Gatherings??


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 28, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I could be tempted but where can I find a next to nothing hotel in New York. That's the part that has me wondering.


I was just looking at the HI International hostel. It's in the $50's-$60's per night. But it doesn't look close enough to NYP for me since I'm not familiar with the public transportation. I'll just make it a day, a very long day, trip


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## Sproutis (Sep 28, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I was just looking at the HI International hostel. It's in the $50's-$60's per night. But it doesn't look close enough to NYP for me since I'm not familiar with the public transportation. I'll just make it a day, a very long day, trip


You can get on the Downtown 1 train at 103rd St (one block away) and stay on it to 34th Street Penn Station. Then all you have to do is follow signs to NYP up from the subway.


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## Seaboard92 (Sep 28, 2016)

I might take 98 to Washington and hang around there. Then take 66 the crazy train to sleep till New York and get off and sleep in the lounge. Followed by returning on crazy train 65 and sleeping thru to Richmond. Then boarding 89


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I might take 98 to Washington and hang around there. Then take 66 the crazy train to sleep till New York and get off and sleep in the lounge. Followed by returning on crazy train 65 and sleeping thru to Richmond. Then boarding 89


If you have somewhere to crash in Washington near Union Station you could also take the crazy 150 at 3 something am and be joined by Betty in Wilmington to arrive in NYP at six something am.  But if the whole idea is to be on train as much as possible at night then of course best bet is 65/66/67.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 28, 2016)

jis said:


> Seaboard92 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take 98 to Washington and hang around there. Then take 66 the crazy train to sleep till New York and get off and sleep in the lounge. Followed by returning on crazy train 65 and sleeping thru to Richmond. Then boarding 89
> ...


**Looks around for Jis - was he looking over my shoulder a few minutes ago - when I booked 150? h34r: **

The HI Hostel is a few blocks from Metro Center and is nice.


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## jis (Sep 28, 2016)

Be very careful


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 28, 2016)

jis said:


> Be very careful


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## SarahZ (Sep 28, 2016)

The call is coming from inside the house!

-=-

$100/night isn't bad for a hotel, especially in NYC, but when I consider that plus airfare plus the cost of the excursion... Perhaps I should put this on the list for next October. That will give me time to plan for it.


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## Seaboard92 (Sep 29, 2016)

I actually do have a place to stay in Washington. And it's really close to the trains too.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 29, 2016)

fairviewroad said:


> I wonder how this compares to previous excursions in terms of actual rare mileage. Because the latter half of the trip (aside from the relatively short Zoo subway) will all be on tracks currently in Amtrak revenue service. Nothing terribly special about going from Harrisburg to NYP on the Keystone route.
> 
> 2013: PHL-Perryville-Harrisburg-Columbia-Lancaster-PHL, where IIRC the entire run from Perryville-Lancaster via Harrisburg and Columbia was "rare."
> 
> ...



From a mileage perspective, this trip seems to have more rare mileage than a trip up the Port Road.

Look for the Acela sets to pinch hit for a few regional trains on this weekend.


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## Seaboard92 (Sep 29, 2016)

I was just about to post that as its the same day as the NCTM charter


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## PRR 60 (Sep 29, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> From a mileage perspective, this trip seems to have more rare mileage than a trip up the Port Road.
> 
> Look for the Acela sets to pinch hit for a few regional trains on this weekend.


Yep. The Port Road trip had about 125 miles of freight-only trackage. I haven't plotted it out yet (for that job I have at another site), but I'm estimating this trip will have about 160-170 miles of "rare mileage."
The 2014 trip out and back on the NS Harrisburg Line is the record holder (about 230 miles), but it was the same 115 miles twice - so one could argue that it was only 115 miles. The 2015 trip was also an "out-and-back" with about 80 miles of freight only trackage each way.

So, being the glass is half full type guy I am (those who know me are laughing), this trip should cover more rare mileage without repeat than any prior trip.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> So, being the glass is half full type guy I am (those who know me are laughing),


^** Har har har **^ 

Anyway, here is an article on this trip where Mr. McHugh makes it quite clear that this has nothing to do with restoring service to Allentown....

http://www.mcall.com/business/mc-allentown-amtrak-train-new-york-20160928-story.html

So 13 car train pulled by two locomotives. I suppose either both will be the Phase III ones, or one just might be Joseph H. Boardman. Who knows?

Also 110mph high speed run might suggest that it will remain under diesel power all the way back to Newark, but again, who knows?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > So, being the glass is half full type guy I am (those who know me are laughing),
> ...


In the past they used either the Phase I/Veterans combination or both Phase III locomotives. I'm hoping for the former, because Phase I is the only one I am yet to see and Phase III is becoming normal. While I have no info on this, I am also hoping for the Veterans ACS-64.
I am pretty sure that they will change locomotives in Harrisburg as the train has to change direction anyway. Also, there is 10 extra minutes allowed going Westbound between NYP and NWK when compared to eastbound. Also, where does it say 110 MPH?


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Read the article linked to in the post that you are commenting on. 



> The train changes direction in Harrisburg and heads to Philadelphia along the route of the Pennsylvania Railroad's Blue Ribbon Fleet. The train then rejoins the Northeast Corridor at Zoo Tower for a high-speed run of about 110 mph back to Newark to let passengers off at 6:10 p.m. before returning to Penn Station at 6:30 p.m.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Read the article linked to in the post that you are commenting on.
> 
> 
> 
> > The train changes direction in Harrisburg and heads to Philadelphia along the route of the Pennsylvania Railroad's Blue Ribbon Fleet. The train then rejoins the Northeast Corridor at Zoo Tower for a high-speed run of about 110 mph back to Newark to let passengers off at 6:10 p.m. before returning to Penn Station at 6:30 p.m.


Sorry, I read the article yesterday and forgot that it mentioned the speed. I still think that Harrisburg is the more likely location for the change. The article could be inaccurate (the Amtrak website says nothing about top speed) or it is also possible they could have non-Amfleet cars in the consist that restrict speed. In the past they have used Horizons. Business cars on the end are also possible.


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## Ryan (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> I suppose either both will be the Phase III ones, or one just might be Joseph H. Boardman. Who knows?


I missed the news on the locomotive naming, classy move!


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Sorry, I read the article yesterday and forgot that it mentioned the speed. I still think that Harrisburg is the more likely location for the change. The article could be inaccurate (the Amtrak website says nothing about top speed) or it is also possible they could have non-Amfleet cars in the consist that restrict speed. In the past they have used Horizons. Business cars on the end are also possible.


All Horizons are good for 125mph. I wonder what American View is limited to. Maybe it is still 110.
Yeah, it is entirely possible that the loco change will be in Harrisburg.



Ryan said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose either both will be the Phase III ones, or one just might be Joseph H. Boardman. Who knows?
> ...


Yes the veterans P42 was given the name Joseph H Boardman, marked under the engineer's window.


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## Agent (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I read the article yesterday and forgot that it mentioned the speed. I still think that Harrisburg is the more likely location for the change. The article could be inaccurate (the Amtrak website says nothing about top speed) or it is also possible they could have non-Amfleet cars in the consist that restrict speed. In the past they have used Horizons. Business cars on the end are also possible.
> ...


As long as we're speculating, what speed is _Sandy Creek_ rated for?


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Thirdrail is the guy who can probably give more definitive answer to such questions than me. Typically I believe PV that are compliant with Amtrak requirements are capable of 110mph. But I could be wrong.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 29, 2016)

I booked two nights at the Hilton Newark Penn Station and will see if a ticket for the excursion and points trips on the CL are in the future. :unsure:


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Railroad Bill said:


> I booked two nights at the Hilton Newark Penn Station and will see if a ticket for the excursion and points trips on the CL are in the future. :unsure:


I am also booked two nights at the Hilton Newark Penn Station.

If all goes according to plan I get in around midnight Friday evening.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > I booked two nights at the Hilton Newark Penn Station and will see if a ticket for the excursion and points trips on the CL are in the future. :unsure:
> ...


Still think we might need to take the train into NYP to catch the excursion since waiting for the train to get to Newark might result in fewer seat choices available. I remember last year in Albany and how the Schenectady people were upset that they boarded later.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > I booked two nights at the Hilton Newark Penn Station and will see if a ticket for the excursion and points trips on the CL are in the future. :unsure:
> ...


If the Cap gets into WAS on time I hope to catch a NER train and be in Newark by 6:00pm.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Railroad Bill said:


> Still think we might need to take the train into NYP to catch the excursion since waiting for the train to get to Newark might result in fewer seat choices available. I remember last year in Albany and how the Schenectady people were upset that they boarded later.


Yeah. I plan to be in NYP by 7am latest.



Railroad Bill said:


> If the Cap gets into WAS on time I hope to catch a NER train and be in Newark by 6:00pm.


I am on a 7:55pm flight from Orlando to EWR which gets into EWR around 10:45 or so. And being a later in the day flight it would typically be more likely to be delayed. But I plan to catch some Zzzzs in First Class after dinner.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 29, 2016)

Is anybody else going on Sunday?


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## fairviewroad (Sep 29, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> Perhaps I should put this on the list for next October. That will give me time to plan for it.


Next year's excursion will be more geographically advantageous to you. Sources deep inside Amtrak tell me the 2017 Autumn Express will simply be a re-route of the Lake Shore Limited through Michigan. 



PRR 60 said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > From a mileage perspective, this trip seems to have more rare mileage than a trip up the Port Road.
> ...


Thanks for the knowledgeable analysis. I wouldn't entirely discount the value of there-and-back rare mileage, since the view out the side of the train can be dramatically different depending on direction. But yes, in terms of overall unique rare mileage, this one does appear to be tops so far, even if a relatively high percentage of the overall trip mileage is on existing revenue trackage. Kudos to Amtrak for working out the details.


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## Acela150 (Sep 29, 2016)

Harrisburg line isn't rare mileage for me. Lol!!! I was qualified all the way to GI8 aka the Fuel Pad.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> Harrisburg line isn't rare mileage for me. Lol!!! I was qualified all the way to GI8 aka the Fuel Pad.


Good, then you need not go on this trip and make a potential seat available for someone for whom it is rare mileage


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## Mystic River Dragon (Sep 29, 2016)

My seat will be available, because that is the weekend I will be down in Virginia on the Dover Harbor trip if I did my paperwork right (sent my check in just before this was announced)! (Always so many good places to go and things to do in October!  )

Perhaps I can go on this another year, especially if they start and end at Philly, which is easier for me than New York or Newark.

I hope you all have a lovely time and that someone who gets the seat I would have taken truly enjoys the trip  . Those of you who read my posts about the Keystone know how much I love the countryside between Harrisburg and Philly, no matter how many times I see it, and for someone who hasn't seen it before, the farms and gentle river and old mountains covered with trees of any color are a nice treat.


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## RPC (Sep 29, 2016)

A question for the insiders here...the blurb says the Autumn Express will follow the route of the "Queen of the Valley" so I assume it's going through Reading and Hershey to Harrisburg. Will it be turned on the Rockville Bridge (as in 2014) or on the NS bridge downtown? (FWIW, when Amtrak sent out the survey after the 2014 AE and asked for new routes, this was my top choice, except that I would have sent it down the Schuykill from Reading and onto the Trenton Cutoff.)


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## railiner (Sep 29, 2016)

For once, I won't have to wake up at "0-Dark-30", to catch this years excursion...


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 29, 2016)

I mapped the westbound route on Google Maps, it is attached here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en_US&app=mp&mid=1V1MwwsNQGSGhZ-JPaPXCp7HHPWw. I doubt that it is 100% accurate, as there are a few areas of parallel lines such as Northeast New Jersey, East Allentown, and Reading. According to this, it is 182 miles NYP-HAR (Keystone is 195) and 171 miles of rare Amtrak mileage. I believe NJT operates over about 10 miles of this, so it would be about 160 miles of rare passenger mileage. This trip will easily be the longest autumn excursion yet.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 29, 2016)

Inquiring minds want to know  .

Wondering what time the train would arrive in Harrisburg and whether I could catch the westbound Pennsylvanian there and head home a day early?

Since I have ridden the Keystone HAR to PHL several times, I would enjoy the new mileage on the Autumn Excursion and then hop off at HAR and do the 43 and 29 back to CLE that afternoon and evening.

Wonder if they have developed a timetable for the AEX? :unsure:


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 30, 2016)

jis said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I read the article yesterday and forgot that it mentioned the speed. I still think that Harrisburg is the more likely location for the change. The article could be inaccurate (the Amtrak website says nothing about top speed) or it is also possible they could have non-Amfleet cars in the consist that restrict speed. In the past they have used Horizons. Business cars on the end are also possible.
> ...


The American View is still rated for 110mph. It is unlikely you'll see an engine change at HAR as the diesels are needed back in NYP for the next trip.



Agent said:


> As long as we're speculating, what speed is _Sandy Creek_ rated for?


If it travels over the NEC, it has to operate at 110mph.



fairviewroad said:


> Next year's excursion will be more geographically advantageous to you. Sources deep inside Amtrak tell me the 2017 Autumn Express will simply be a re-route of the Lake Shore Limited through Michigan.







Acela150 said:


> Harrisburg line isn't rare mileage for me. Lol!!! I was qualified all the way to GI8 aka the Fuel Pad.


Excellent. You'll act as a pilot...as one of the "volunteers."



RPC said:


> A question for the insiders here...the blurb says the Autumn Express will follow the route of the "Queen of the Valley" so I assume it's going through Reading and Hershey to Harrisburg. Will it be turned on the Rockville Bridge (as in 2014) or on the NS bridge downtown? (FWIW, when Amtrak sent out the survey after the 2014 AE and asked for new routes, this was my top choice, except that I would have sent it down the Schuykill from Reading and onto the Trenton Cutoff.)


We'll know for sure in a few days, but I don't think it will turn on either. I believe they are planning to use the bridge that Amtrak uses to wye their trains at HAR.


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## Thirdrail7 (Sep 30, 2016)

Railroad Bill said:


> Inquiring minds want to know  .
> 
> Wondering what time the train would arrive in Harrisburg and whether I could catch the westbound Pennsylvanian there and head home a day early?
> 
> ...


It is my impression that you will not be in the position to intercept the Pennsylvanian at HAR, However, the final timetable is not out since there are a few minor details pending.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 30, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > Inquiring minds want to know  .
> ...


Maybe they have it planned for the trains to meet in Harrisburg and exchange locomotives. Without turning the train, the diesels from the excursion would be facing westbound (same direction as Pennsylvanian). The ACS-64 would be facing the wrong direction, but they are bi-directional so it could work. It is likely that the locomotives would come from PHL anyway because I see no reason NYP would have any P42s and PHL is the next closest terminal.


----------



## jis (Sep 30, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > Railroad Bill said:
> ...


I guess you did not bother to read Thirdrail's posts a few before yours? Just in case you are unaware Thirdrail works for Amtrak and knows the actual facts. You are just guessing based on some theory in your mind.  
What is PHI?


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 30, 2016)

jis said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Thirdrail7 said:
> ...


Sorry about PHL-I'm not a morning person. I fixed it. I read the entire thread, but I was not aware that ThirdRail worked for Amtrak. The wording sounded unsure as if it was just another theory. I realize they need the locos back in NWK Saturday night, but I thought it made sense to put them on the Pennsylvanian on Sunday. You are right, it was just a guess that made sense given that I didn't know we had inside sources.


----------



## railiner (Sep 30, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Railroad Bill said:
> 
> 
> > Inquiring minds want to know  .
> ...


The previous excursion thru Harrisburg did not stop at the station allowing passenger's off or on...


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 30, 2016)

I read something about it stopping in Lancaster. Is it planned to stop anywhere else?


----------



## Railroad Bill (Sep 30, 2016)

railiner said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > Railroad Bill said:
> ...


O.K. sounds like my plan will not work. I remember the first Autumn trip via Harrisburg did stop at the station area to get rid of trash, etc. but I do not think it was on a track near the station platforms?? Will wait to see what the final itinerary is. Thanks for all the insight.


----------



## jis (Sep 30, 2016)

As I recall quite a while back I was on a Conrail excursion which among other places stopped at the Lucknow Rail Welding facility just west of Harrsiburg. That was a very nice trip.


----------



## Albo5000 (Sep 30, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Is anybody else going on Sunday?


I'm aiming for Sunday, hopefully less families because of school on Monday. But even if it is packed with kids it will be great no matter what.

Also, anyone know the consist yet? I see people posting about American View, if it is on the consist, will they let everyone ride in the way back? or is that just a pipe dream?


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Sep 30, 2016)

Albo5000 said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Is anybody else going on Sunday?
> ...


I doubt the public would be allowed in American View if it was in the consist. There will be 600-700 people on this train. It would be cool though.

However, it may be a good chance for Moorman to meet passengers. I have no sources saying he is going on the train, just saying that it would be a good opportunity for him to meet customers.


----------



## jis (Sep 30, 2016)

Albo5000 said:


> Also, anyone know the consist yet? I see people posting about American View, if it is on the consist, will they let everyone ride in the way back? or is that just a pipe dream?


In case it is in the consist, which it may or may not be, in general one does not get to go into American View unless someone from Amtrak invites you there. It is mostly a pipe dream 

It was in the consist of the AEM-7 farewell, and some of us, just a very few, got invited to visit while at the Wilmington Shops, thanks to someone that we know at Amtrak.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 1, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Maybe they have it planned for the trains to meet in Harrisburg and exchange locomotives. Without turning the train, the diesels from the excursion would be facing westbound (same direction as Pennsylvanian). The ACS-64 would be facing the wrong direction, but they are bi-directional so it could work. It is likely that the locomotives would come from PHL anyway because I see no reason NYP would have any P42s and PHL is the next closest terminal.


Technically, the next closest terminal is New Haven, which has diesels and cab cars for the Springfield Line. However, I get the feeling the diesels will not come from that pool. It's actually a shame the AEM-7s are retired because they would be quite useful right now. Some of them were modified so they could be completely controlled by modified P-42s. The diesel would go on top on of the electric, you'd isolate the propulsion on the diesel and use it to power the AEM-7. You could even control the pantograph. Then, when you reached the end of the live catenary, you'd drop the pantograph on the AEM-7, put the diesel propulsion back online and you'd never miss a beat.



Albo5000 said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Is anybody else going on Sunday?
> ...


So far, it consists of 10 Am I coaches and 2 Am Cafe cars. I haven't heard anything about the 10001 or 10004 making the trip and I believe the 9800 has another commitment. However, the plan is still young.


----------



## Seaboard92 (Oct 1, 2016)

Job my memory the 9800 is what?


----------



## OBS (Oct 1, 2016)

9800 is the Metroliner conference car.


----------



## neroden (Oct 1, 2016)

I wonder how much it costs Amtrak, incrementally, to run this. Not counting additional food sales and assuming all passengers are adults, it seems like they raise $214560 on the two trips, which is a nice hunk of revenue. (Obviously additional cars would mean more revenue.)


----------



## Ryan (Oct 1, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> It's actually a shame the AEM-7s are retired because they would be quite useful right now.


I can think of a handful within arms reach y'all should pull out. The funny looking blue and oranges ones deserve a last trip of their own.


----------



## neroden (Oct 2, 2016)

They should totally have someone letting people ride in American View (and look out the back) in 15 minute increments for $10/person. Think of the income. (Yes, I do think like a capitalist.)


----------



## jld (Oct 2, 2016)

neroden said:


> I wonder how much it costs Amtrak, incrementally, to run this. Not counting additional food sales and assuming all passengers are adults, it seems like they raise $214560 on the two trips, which is a nice hunk of revenue. (Obviously additional cars would mean more revenue.)


Probably could have saved a chunk of change just cutting out the electric portion/crew and initiate at NWK -- and holding 5 extra mins to grab the 160 and NJT (NYP) transfers -- though I won't complain since the Path is always out


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 3, 2016)

I am trying to buy a ticket but it's not working. Weren't they supposed to go on sale at 10? Is anybody else having this problem?


----------



## JoeRids (Oct 3, 2016)

Just tried booking online; giving me an error message doesn't recognize the arrival station. Pretty sure I'm doing it correctly.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 3, 2016)

JoeRids said:


> Just tried booking online; giving me an error message doesn't recognize the arrival station. Pretty sure I'm doing it correctly.


That is the same message it's giving me.


----------



## pennyk (Oct 3, 2016)

JoeRids said:


> Just tried booking online; giving me an error message doesn't recognize the arrival station. Pretty sure I'm doing it correctly.


ditto. I am on with an agent now with no success


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

It works only through the Smartphone Apps at present. I just got my ticket.


----------



## Albo5000 (Oct 3, 2016)

Got mine booked on the app no problem.


----------



## JoeBas (Oct 3, 2016)

*** Scene opens at Amtrak's tech facility ***

Senior IT Professional: "How do you make a foamer's head explode?"

Junior IT Professional: "I don't know. How?"

Senior IT Professional: "Like this." *evil grin as he deactivates ability to book on everything but the most obscure platform* "Enjoy your Monday, Bill!".


----------



## pennyk (Oct 3, 2016)

I booked mine and Betty's using a phone agent.


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

Quickest way at present is to use you Smartphone App, if you happen to have one that is. Took me a minute, or as long as it takes to type in the credit card info.

George Pitz just posted on Facebook that the issue with the website is being addressed.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Oct 3, 2016)

pennyk said:


> I booked mine and Betty's using a phone agent.


Thanks Penny! I owe you about 30 beers. Can you drink that many while we're in Denver? :giggle:


----------



## railiner (Oct 3, 2016)

I had the same problem, so I booked it by phone...I'll get the app later, for future use...


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

According to some reports they have now managed to break everything in the process of trying to fix the website.


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

According to more recent report, now the website is working. I have not tried it myself though, since I have no need for another ticket.


----------



## AlanB (Oct 3, 2016)

Still not working via the website; although the website is operational.

Booked my tix via the App, a pain since it only remembers my info. Had to type in all the info for my mom.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 3, 2016)

I just booked it on the website for Sunday.


----------



## Sproutis (Oct 3, 2016)

Got ours from the site just now.


----------



## Seaboard92 (Oct 3, 2016)

Does the standard refund policy apply to this trip. Just in case I would have to cancel?


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> Does the standard refund policy apply to this trip. Just in case I would have to cancel?


No refund AFAIK.


----------



## pennyk (Oct 3, 2016)

jis said:


> Seaboard92 said:
> 
> 
> > Does the standard refund policy apply to this trip. Just in case I would have to cancel?
> ...


according to the agent to whom I spoke, cancellations would receive a voucher.


----------



## jis (Oct 3, 2016)

pennyk said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Seaboard92 said:
> ...


you're right. It says "Tickets are non-refundable" which in Amtrak lingo could indeed mean that you get a voucher if you cancel.


----------



## neroden (Oct 3, 2016)

OK, I reserved for Saturday. If I end up not being able to go I'll get a voucher (I always end up using Amtrak vouchers, so that's fine.)

I suppose from Amtrak's point of view it's annoying if people cancel and want cash back, but if they just get Amtrak vouchers, hey, they end up occupying otherwise-empty space on some other train, and Amtrak still gets the money, so no loss... I'm glad Amtrak still has a generous voucher policy.


----------



## jld (Oct 3, 2016)

neroden said:


> OK, I reserved for Saturday. If I end up not being able to go I'll get a voucher (I always end up using Amtrak vouchers, so that's fine.)
> 
> I suppose from Amtrak's point of view it's annoying if people cancel and want cash back, but if they just get Amtrak vouchers, hey, they end up occupying otherwise-empty space on some other train, and Amtrak still gets the money, so no loss... I'm glad Amtrak still has a generous voucher policy.


It is a great perk unless of course they cancel again last minute on a sold out train/class, thus inhibiting future sales.  had this related issue when attempting an upgrade--and had to do a partial one--only to find out that there were indeed no shows (and the outstanding conductor made it whole).


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 3, 2016)

jis said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Harrisburg line isn't rare mileage for me. Lol!!! I was qualified all the way to GI8 aka the Fuel Pad.
> ...


Lol!! I was never qualified on the Lehigh Line though. Once the train gets to Wyomissing its old news for me haha!!



Thirdrail7 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> ...


Pleaseeeeeeee Volunteer as a Pilot??? Last time I got called for a pilot job all I did was sit in the second unit and eat my lunch. We had a RFE riding. So my throttle jockey acted as both the Engineer Pilot and Conductor Pilot. That was a quit job too.


----------



## railiner (Oct 4, 2016)

I wonder how NYP will handle the boarding, compared with the previous years in Philly and Albany?

Any tips for securing an early boarding? The usual 'get a redcap'? Will AU people meet somewhere ahead of time?


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Oct 4, 2016)

railiner said:


> I wonder how NYP will handle the boarding, compared with the previous years in Philly and Albany?
> 
> Any tips for securing an early boarding? The usual 'get a redcap'? Will AU people meet somewhere ahead of time?


I'll be arriving around 6:30 am (#150??) and have never been to NYP except passing through or doing a cross platform transfer, so it will be interesting to me. I expect to meet some fellow AUers somewhere.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 4, 2016)

I'll be arriving at 6:59 from Ronkonkoma on the LIRR. For people familiar with the route, which side of the train is preferable?


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 4, 2016)

railiner said:


> I wonder how NYP will handle the boarding, compared with the previous years in Philly and Albany?
> 
> Any tips for securing an early boarding? The usual 'get a redcap'? Will AU people meet somewhere ahead of time?


It's NYP. It's a weekend early morning. Not much to worry about. Why worry about early boarding? I also think that you pull that get a red cap gig it'll cause a ruckus that's not worth it. Just get in line with the other buffs.


----------



## railiner (Oct 4, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how NYP will handle the boarding, compared with the previous years in Philly and Albany?
> ...


Thank you for that helpful info...I sure would not want to "cause a ruckus"...


----------



## Albo5000 (Oct 4, 2016)

Anyone know the rail miles we will travel on this trip?


----------



## dlagrua (Oct 4, 2016)

pennyk said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > In anticipation I have just put a good first class round trip air reservation on hold for a week  Hope we hear something concrete within a week. Otherwise I will have cycle another hold next week.
> ...


As a long time Amtrak traveler I must be missing something. How do you make a reservation ? You can buy tickets and cancel them for a voucher but is that the way you reserve?


----------



## pennyk (Oct 4, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


I speak to an agent and make a reservation and ask for a courtesy hold. Depending on the length of time between the reservation and travel, they may hold up to a week. You must phone back and pay for the reservation before it expires.


----------



## neroden (Oct 4, 2016)

*Sigh* I won't be there. Had to make another trip which conflicts. It's on an Amtrak route I haven't taken before, so that's nice.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 4, 2016)

Albo5000 said:


> Anyone know the rail miles we will travel on this trip?


According to my calculations, 374.182 miles there and 192 back.

Edited to account for Philadelphia 30th Street bypass.


----------



## Albo5000 (Oct 4, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Albo5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know the rail miles we will travel on this trip?
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## RPC (Oct 4, 2016)

The Lehigh River will be on the right (starboard) side.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 5, 2016)

Does anybody know what food they will serve on this train? On their website it says there is a vegetarian option available if you call. The only meat I eat is chicken and I am sort of a picky eater with vegetarian foods, so I am curious what the options are.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 5, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Does anybody know what food they will serve on this train? On their website it says there is a vegetarian option available if you call. The only meat I eat is chicken and I am sort of a picky eater with vegetarian foods, so I am curious what the options are.



Unless something changes, word on the street is your choices are







Or






with











marinated in






Plus the usual garnishes, snacks and trinkets....more or less. Actual ingredients and products may vary. Bon Appetit!


----------



## Anthony V (Oct 5, 2016)

jis said:


> So what might Mr. Moorman have to do with getting permission to run an excursion on a track where one was denied permission with much lecturing just a few weeks back?


Moorman worked for NS, so he knew the right people to talk to in order to get these trips scheduled.


----------



## pennyk (Oct 5, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Does anybody know what food they will serve on this train? On their website it says there is a vegetarian option available if you call. The only meat I eat is chicken and I am sort of a picky eater with vegetarian foods, so I am curious what the options are.


I have traveled on 2 autumn excursions and the AEM-7 ride. The lunch served on each trip was some sort of a turkey sandwich. I am a picky eater with allergies, so I always bring "back up" food with me. I was more that satisified with each of the box lunches I was provided.


----------



## AFS1970 (Oct 5, 2016)

I am looking at booking the Sunday trip. Depends on wife based plans however.

Since they are providing a box lunch, does this mean no cafe service? They did mention other food options for sale. Just curious as to deciding if I bring a small cooler or not.


----------



## railiner (Oct 6, 2016)

pennyk said:


> brianpmcdonnell17 said:
> 
> 
> > Does anybody know what food they will serve on this train? On their website it says there is a vegetarian option available if you call. The only meat I eat is chicken and I am sort of a picky eater with vegetarian foods, so I am curious what the options are.
> ...


Last year the turkey sandwich was on Panera bread....delicious!


----------



## railiner (Oct 6, 2016)

AFS1970 said:


> I am looking at booking the Sunday trip. Depends on wife based plans however.
> 
> Since they are providing a box lunch, does this mean no cafe service? They did mention other food options for sale. Just curious as to deciding if I bring a small cooler or not.


They have also ran a working Cafe car, where you can purchase an additional box lunch, or the standard regional cafe and bar items. They also offer Amtrak souvenir items for sale. The business class seats in the car were 'reserved' for the volunteer crew members.


----------



## jld (Oct 6, 2016)

Does anyone know what time the Lancaster photo stop is?

Is anyone planning to detrain and take a later Keystone (or WB Pennsylvan?) to see Lancaster, and if so what do you recommend?

...10.5 hours in an amfleet I is a bit long.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 6, 2016)

railiner said:


> AFS1970 said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking at booking the Sunday trip. Depends on wife based plans however.
> ...


I believe souvenirs, additional drinks and non-perishable snacks (chips, cookies etc) are the only things available in the cafe car.


----------



## Manny T (Oct 6, 2016)

Can anyone take a look at the PA fall foliage map in the attached link and say whether the excursion train will be passing mostly through the yellow, orange or brown band, or what combination of bands? I would appreciate it!

http://www.pennlive.com/wildaboutpa/2016/09/peak_foliage_color_advances_as.html


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 7, 2016)

Manny T said:


> Can anyone take a look at the PA fall foliage map in the attached link and say whether the excursion train will be passing mostly through the yellow, orange or brown band, or what combination of bands? I would appreciate it!
> 
> http://www.pennlive.com/wildaboutpa/2016/09/peak_foliage_color_advances_as.html



Your entire trip is in the southern zone. Dauphin County (Harrisburg area) may be a toss up, but the rest should fall into the Oct-21st-Oct 31st zone.


----------



## railiner (Oct 7, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > AFS1970 said:
> ...


Oh, I wasn't sure...besides the included box lunch, my only additional purchases were for coffee and the souvenir pin.

Speaking of souvenir pins, I wonder if they will offer them this year...I have the first two, but they didn't make one last year...


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 7, 2016)

railiner said:


> Oh, I wasn't sure...besides the included box lunch, my only additional purchases were for coffee and the souvenir pin.
> 
> Speaking of souvenir pins, I wonder if they will offer them this year...I have the first two, but they didn't make one last year...


There should be a pin and tote bag.


----------



## jld (Oct 7, 2016)

jld said:


> Does anyone know what time the Lancaster photo stop is?
> 
> Is anyone planning to detrain and take a later Keystone (or WB Pennsylvan?) to see Lancaster, and if so what do you recommend?
> 
> ...10.5 hours in an amfleet I is a bit long.


So no one has a view on the tentative schedule and fresh air breaks?
Also I assume all souvenirs and lunch will be distributed well before the photo op so no need to fear of missing out.


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 8, 2016)

jld said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know what time the Lancaster photo stop is?
> ...


No.

Take a guess.... Yes. The first year they were handing out lunches by 10am IIRC.

I find it hilarious that they are using Lancaster as the photo stop.. There are a decent amount of obstructions. But in fairness, it's the only station that they could pull it off at. I hope that should this photo stop not involve a shove move west then bring it back to the station that the Head End Crew is nice enough to not pull past the barrier at the east end of the platform. Or at least not that close to it. Everytime I was head end riding last May the engineer would stop the train well past that barrier, so I had to get around it to get to the cab. Although the one time the train was in push that was nice, simply cause all I had to do was walk through the coaches.


----------



## railiner (Oct 8, 2016)

I wonder what percentage of the passenger's will get off the train for the photo stop?

I mean...its not as if its got something 'exotic' in the consist, or powered by a steam or vintage electric or diesel locomotive. The only thing exotic, perhaps, is its length...

And the photo stop will not be on the 'rare mileage'....whatever, should be interesting....


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Oct 8, 2016)

railiner said:


> I wonder what percentage of the passenger's will get off the train for the photo stop?
> 
> I mean...its not as if its got something 'exotic' in the consist, or powered by a steam or vintage electric or diesel locomotive. The only thing exotic, perhaps, is its length...
> 
> And the photo stop will not be on the 'rare mileage'....whatever, should be interesting....


Maybe they're going to hook up to PRR 4859 in Harrisburg. Just kidding. I know nothing,


----------



## jis (Oct 8, 2016)

Maybe the head end will be #42?


----------



## railiner (Oct 8, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder what percentage of the passenger's will get off the train for the photo stop?
> ...


Now that would even get me 'foaming'....


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 8, 2016)

Every other year they used heritage locomotives, so they will likely do the same this year.


----------



## AFS1970 (Oct 8, 2016)

I am all booked on the Sunday trip. In a surprise move, my wife was very enthusiastic about coming along.


----------



## railiner (Oct 8, 2016)

I see that the train's have not sold out on either date yet.

Big difference from the first two years when the Saturday trip sold out in what, a half hour, or so?

That prompted them to add the Sunday train, and last year they offered both dates from the start...

Even originating in a larger market hasn't made a difference, although the steadily increasing fare, may have had some effect...


----------



## jis (Oct 8, 2016)

I am sure it will sell out or be very close to sellout by the time it runs, like it did last year.


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 8, 2016)

jis said:


> Maybe the head end will be #42?


Not possible. 42 is not ACSES equipped. It'll be 145 if they use any of the heritage painted units. It's the only one equipped with ACSES. 42 may be in the consist but that's about it.


----------



## jis (Oct 8, 2016)

Ah, didn't realize it is not ACSES equipped.

However, if Amtrak really wanted it there's probably a way to do it. There is plenty of time before the trip.


----------



## Oreius (Oct 8, 2016)

Do you think it's worth the money? Unfortunately, I live between Harrisburg and Reading. I would have to drive 3 hours to get to NYC, take the ferry across, and then go to Penn Station. Just doesn't make sense given the train will pass through my town.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Oct 8, 2016)

railiner said:


> I see that the train's have not sold out on either date yet.
> 
> Big difference from the first two years when the Saturday trip sold out in what, a half hour, or so?
> 
> ...


Perhaps the novelty is wearing off. When that happens, the trains will likely vanish.



Acela150 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the head end will be #42?
> ...


It was requested by two groups. We'll see what actually happens.



Oreius said:


> Do you think it's worth the money? Unfortunately, I live between Harrisburg and Reading. I would have to drive 3 hours to get to NYC, take the ferry across, and then go to Penn Station. Just doesn't make sense given the train will pass through my town.


It sounds like you've already answered your own question. You could always take record the train as it passes through your town. If you have any bridges near your neighborhood, you can take a picture of the train as it crosses the bridge.


----------



## Oreius (Oct 8, 2016)

I could board it in Newark. I could park the car in the Hilton parking garage and walk over the breezeway to the station. This way, I won't have to go into NYC.


----------



## railiner (Oct 16, 2016)

railiner said:


> I see that the train's have not sold out on either date yet.
> 
> Big difference from the first two years when the Saturday trip sold out in what, a half hour, or so?
> 
> ...





jis said:


> I am sure it will sell out or be very close to sellout by the time it runs, like it did last year.


Just checked, and the Saturday train is sold out....Sunday is still available....


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 16, 2016)

Anthony V said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > So what might Mr. Moorman have to do with getting permission to run an excursion on a track where one was denied permission with much lecturing just a few weeks back?
> ...


Moorman ran NS.. But I can almost guarantee that he had nothing to do with it.. 2 out of 3 of these trips have used the NS Harrisburg Division. I can tell you first hand that the Harrisburg Division office treats 43 and 42 like gold. They want that thing off their trackage ASAP. Only one dispatcher handles 42 and 43 in the Harrisburg Division. That is the Harrisburg Terminal Dispatcher. From where it enters NS at Harrisburg to just past Rockville. Also bearing in mind that 42/43 pass a very busy GI8 (Harrisburg Fuel Pad) which is where crew changes occur. I can count at least once where my train was held at CP HARRISBURG to wait for 43 to get out ahead of us.

Bottom line... All of the trips except last years trip have used the Harrisburg Division.



Thirdrail7 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I see that the train's have not sold out on either date yet.
> ...


Two groups huh??? What they want a multi foam chance?? 145, 42, and dare I say 642? Put a unit in a different paint job they go nutssssss.


----------



## jis (Oct 17, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the head end will be #42?
> ...


So, according to *******, it will have 145, 42 and 642. Should get the foam flowing copiously . Given 42's recent christening I was almost certain they'd find a way to include it, which was the reason I posted the original message.


----------



## Acela150 (Oct 17, 2016)

jis said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


Well he would know for sure.. I got kicked out of that group cause someone's feelings got hurt over the stupidest thing..


----------



## TylerP42 (Oct 17, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


Oh NEC Railfans? Yeah, they're very stingy and easy to upset at times...


----------



## Ryan (Oct 18, 2016)

Not if you're reasonably mature person that doesn't go in blazing like a know-it-all.


----------



## jis (Oct 18, 2016)

Yes, I have had no problem with them. BTW, I was requested by three different people to throw Acela150 off the AU forum group on FB and I respectfully declined.

The folks on the North East Corridor Fans group do maintain a tight lash, and that is not always a bad thing. There are some real immature blowhards around who don't seem to have a good sense of when to stop. Not suggesting anyone here meets that description, as should be obvious from my actions in the AU forum group. But yes, I have shut down a person or two on the AU forum group too from time to time, thought quite discreetly I might add, since none of you appear to have noticed. I usually curate and clean up the mess quickly.


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## Acela150 (Oct 19, 2016)

jis said:


> Yes, I have had no problem with them. BTW, I was requested by three different people to throw Acela150 off the AU forum group on FB and I respectfully declined.
> 
> The folks on the North East Corridor Fans group do maintain a tight lash, and that is not always a bad thing. There are some real immature blowhards around who don't seem to have a good sense of when to stop. Not suggesting anyone here meets that description, as should be obvious from my actions in the AU forum group. But yes, I have shut down a person or two on the AU forum group too from time to time, thought quite discreetly I might add, since none of you appear to have noticed. I usually curate and clean up the mess quickly.


Well Thank you for that Jis.

The main reason I was tossed from the NEC page was over something really stupid IMO.. Was I being a bit of a jerk about it yes.. But it gets to a point where one person doesn't listen and then it blows up or someone gets their feelings hurt. It's a great group to be in.. Simply cause there is some decent info pushed around there.

I should add I have no clue the last time I've posted on the AU Facebook page. I get notifications when things are posted and that's about it.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2016)

The requests came from people who are not even in the AU group! Go figure. You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 19, 2016)

jis said:


> The requests came from people who are not even in the AU group! Go figure. You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks


Probably that trainmaster he told off.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 20, 2016)

jis said:


> You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks


That's hard to imagine. h34r: :hi:


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## PRR 60 (Oct 20, 2016)

Not that anybody here actually cares about looking at the leaves, but the foliage seems to be trending toward a peak that weekend.




The full report, and everything you want to know about leaves (and more), can be found at The Foliage Network.

Hmm, it appears there are no trees in Rhode Island.


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## pennyk (Oct 20, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> Not that anybody here actually cares about looking at the leaves, but the foliage seems to be trending toward a peak that weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Bill. I care about looking at leaves.


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## keelhauled (Oct 20, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> Not that anybody here actually cares about looking at the leaves, but the foliage seems to be trending toward a peak that weekend.
> 
> 10172016_lc.gif
> 
> ...


I am skeptical of that map, I would consider peak in VT to have been a full week prior to the 17th. Things are getting very bare up here.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 20, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> Not that anybody here actually cares about looking at the leaves, but the foliage seems to be trending toward a peak that weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dave took all the trees with him when he moved to NY. :giggle:


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## jis (Oct 20, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks
> ...


ROTFL!
BTW, as expected both days are now sold out. Of course there will be sporadic cancellations. So even if you don;t have a ticket, don't lose heart. Just keep trying. Maybe you will succeed in getting a ticket.


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## Acela150 (Oct 20, 2016)

jis said:


> The requests came from people who are not even in the AU group! Go figure. You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks


I've had people despise me for quite some time.. And it won't stop anytime soon.. I try my best to spit out facts. And if they don't like em.. That's their problem. 



MikefromCrete said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > The requests came from people who are not even in the AU group! Go figure. You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks
> ...


Feel free to be a railroader and then have a boss with no railroad experience tell you how to do your job.. Then you'll see things differently 



Thirdrail7 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > You seem to have many not so well wishers of yours crawling in the woodworks
> ...


ROFL!!


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## jis (Oct 21, 2016)

Which raises the question why is it that when you state facts people despise you whereas when others state facts they are not. Do you you only state despicable facts, or do you do so in a particularly despicable way? 

Anyway, this subthread needs to move to a Random Discussion section methinks. Mods?


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## RPC (Oct 21, 2016)

Uh oh - AccuWeather's forecast for tomorrow (2016-10-22) calls for "gusts 40-50mph, falling temperatures, significant leaf drop." The leaves were pretty much gone for the Reading autumn express but a good time was had, by most anyway.


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## Acela150 (Oct 21, 2016)

RPC, we haven't hit peak season yet here in the Philly area. And as far as I can tell same for the Lehigh line and Harrisburg line.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 21, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> RPC, we haven't hit peak season yet here in the Philly area. And as far as I can tell same for the Lehigh line and Harrisburg line.


Some years the leaves go from green to brown to ground. Like in '84 when I had my fall wedding - hoping for some great outdoor pics.


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## jis (Oct 21, 2016)

Either way, we got a good doze of fall colors in Denver and a few of us, up in the Colorado mountains already.


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## Sproutis (Oct 21, 2016)

Traveled down the NEC to Baltimore today. We're juuuuust shy of peak in the New Haven/Stamford/NY Penn area, and as we traveled South everything got greener and greener. Fall colors are showing, but by my unscientific analysis, next weekend should be great for the leafers. Of course, most of them should be on the Adirondack, no?

Are we not gathering together on the excursion train to spend 10 hours together eating sandwiches and swapping big fish stories about trains?


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## railiner (Oct 21, 2016)

Sproutis said:


> Are we not gathering together on the excursion train to spend 10 hours together eating sandwiches and swapping big fish stories about trains?


That would be nice...is there a usual meeting place before boarding, or on the train?

I haven't had the pleasure, on the first three excursions...

I usually like to sit in the first car, to enjoy the __ __ . __ "music".


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## jld (Oct 23, 2016)

What're the implications of the Sunoco pipeline spill in Lancaster co on the Susquehanna river, if any, on our trip?


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## jis (Oct 23, 2016)

jld said:


> What're the implications of the Sunoco pipeline spill in Lancaster co on the Susquehanna river, if any, on our trip?


Most likely none. I don't think anyone was planning to drink the water from the Lancaster municipal water supply on the train anyway.


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## Sproutis (Oct 24, 2016)

railiner said:


> Sproutis said:
> 
> 
> > Are we not gathering together on the excursion train to spend 10 hours together eating sandwiches and swapping big fish stories about trains?
> ...


This will be #3 excursion for us but we haven't quite managed to meet up in person with anybody from here on the other two. I'll be with my 7-yo son. We usually try to find ourselves in one of the bulkhead seats by the bathroom. He generally prefers to ride backwards and the extra room for him to play on the floor is key. You'll be able to recognize us - I'll have on brown cowboy boots and he looks like a miniature Keith Richards.


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## dwmccorm (Oct 24, 2016)

Hello,

I'm not very familiar with the New York station and have some questions about this up coming trip:

1 - What time do you think would be best to arrive at the New York station on Saturday?

2 - I'm a bit of a picky eater, any recommendations of places around the station where I could pick up some take away on Saturday morning?


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## railiner (Oct 24, 2016)

dwmccorm said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm not very familiar with the New York station and have some questions about this up coming trip:
> 
> ...


That would depend on how picky you are on choosing your seat....

based on observations from the first excursion's, the line starts forming 90 minutes or more before departure, but doesn't really start getting long until about 45 minutes before departure. You can arrive at the last few minutes, if you don't care about getting particular seats, or sitting together with other's in your party....

As for food recommendations....there are many places to choose from both in and around the station. I haven't been there in quite a while, so I can't recommend any place in particular. In case you weren't aware, there is a box lunch included in the fare, as well as beverages and snacks available for purchase on board.


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## Oreius (Oct 25, 2016)

Any idea of the time the Autumn Express will pass through Lebanon, PA? I plan to have my scanner and listen for it over NS dispatch.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 25, 2016)

Oreius said:


> Any idea of the time the Autumn Express will pass through Lebanon, PA? I plan to have my scanner and listen for it over NS dispatch.


I'd bet between 12:15-12:45. Remember, it will **probably** have a different train symbol/identity on NS. It kind of reminds me of the former south/west Twilight Shoreliner. h34r:


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## jis (Oct 27, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how NYP will handle the boarding, compared with the previous years in Philly and Albany?
> ...


I will get into NYP around 6:40am by NJT from Newark, following your marker into NYP I guess.


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## SubwayNut (Oct 27, 2016)

It's NYP, will there even be a place to line up for all of you taking the excursion? Won't it just be the usual scrum when the track is announced 15 minutes prior to departure?

Will the exit concourse trick work for it?

If I still lived in New York I'd probably finally take this excursion.


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## railiner (Oct 27, 2016)

SubwayNut said:


> It's NYP, will there even be a place to line up for all of you taking the excursion? Won't it just be the usual scrum when the track is announced 15 minutes prior to departure?
> 
> Will the exit concourse trick work for it?
> 
> If I still lived in New York I'd probably finally take this excursion.


That's a good question...I suppose they could set up a "maze" in the rotunda area, if they wanted to, but you may be right...

As far as the exit concourse...they may anticipate, and stage usher's at each lower level entrance to the track to block access that way...


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## jis (Oct 27, 2016)

If their goal is to prevent overcrowding on the narrow platform, they'd have no choice but to block all entrances except a few where lines will inevitably form. But we'll see in a couple of days, won't we?


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 27, 2016)

jis said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...


Looked at my ticket. 6:42 - so I may following your marker into NYP.


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## railiner (Oct 27, 2016)

jis said:


> If their goal is to prevent overcrowding on the narrow platform, they'd have no choice but to block all entrances except a few where lines will inevitably form. But we'll see in a couple of days, won't we?


Or....they could open up the train earlier than normal for boarding....being that it's the weekend, spotting the train early should't be a problem...


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 27, 2016)

railiner said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > If their goal is to prevent overcrowding on the narrow platform, they'd have no choice but to block all entrances except a few where lines will inevitably form. But we'll see in a couple of days, won't we?
> ...


I've heard boarding begins at 7:30.


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## jis (Oct 27, 2016)

Yes. It has been announced that boarding begins at 7:30am.

BTW, weather now looks good to excellent along the route of the Excursion on Saturday according to wunderground.com


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## JoeRids (Oct 27, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


I really hope they post the track and form an organized queue before 7:30- the sight of 500-600 people rushing to a posted track at 7:30 does not sound appealing. The past 3 years have been very organized with the "early birds" being rewarded with a spot closer to the front. If a track isn't posted until 7:30 there isn't even any point arriving early. I guess we'll see.


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## Albo5000 (Oct 28, 2016)

Since everyone is talking about track numbers, figured I'd share this video. Pay attention to the departures board section. I've used this trick to successfully be the first in line for the trains before the large board shows the track number. Obviously since this is a special train they may handle things different from a regularly scheduled train.


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## jis (Oct 28, 2016)

There is nothing that prevents formation of a queue even if no track is announced. All that the ushers have to do is put up queue markers and enforce them.


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## jld (Oct 28, 2016)

If someone could indicate when the Lancaster photo stop is tomorrow that would be greatly appreciated


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 29, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> So far, it consists of 10 Am I coaches and 2 Am Cafe cars. I haven't heard anything about the 10001 or 10004 making the trip and I believe the 9800 has another commitment. However, the plan is still young.


It looks like the 9800 made it after all!


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 29, 2016)

jld said:


> If someone could indicate when the Lancaster photo stop is tomorrow that would be greatly appreciated


There is a photo stop on both days. Announcements will be made prior to 7:30a. Enjoy your trip and pictures on bridges are appreciated.


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## RailRide (Oct 29, 2016)

Well, a line seems to have materialized in front of Track 9/10 without any formal announcements, so...yeah 

---PCJ


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

On board! In 82654.....seat 10A.


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## Sproutis (Oct 29, 2016)

Us too!

We're near the end - didn't get the car number - but we're in 2D, F, and A.

Proximity to the bathroom and room to wiggle is key when you're 7 years old.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 29, 2016)

Sproutis said:


> Us too!
> 
> We're near the end - didn't get the car number - but we're in 2D, F, and A.
> 
> Proximity to the bathroom and room to wiggle is key when you're 7 years old.


Do you have on a red jacket?


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

The souvenir pin is back, and it's included in the fare, this year....very nice with the 145 depicted. 

Bruce Van Sant is doing a great commentary on the PA...


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## Oreius (Oct 29, 2016)

I wonder where the train is as of now...


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## jis (Oct 29, 2016)

Just passed Emmaus. Not at McCungie yet.


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## Oreius (Oct 29, 2016)

So, I got about an hour and 1/2 before it gets to Lebanon..give or take?


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## jis (Oct 29, 2016)

McKungie at 11:05


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## Oreius (Oct 29, 2016)

Is the train near Reading now?


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Coming into Lebanon, now...


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## Oreius (Oct 29, 2016)

Just heard it on the scanner. About 5 miles east of Lebanon just 5 mins. ago!


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## Oreius (Oct 29, 2016)

Approaching Lebanon!!


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## jis (Oct 29, 2016)

Passing Hershey


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 29, 2016)

jis said:


> Passing Hershey


Or not.  
(We're stopped waiting for freight ahead)


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## RailRide (Oct 29, 2016)

Cooling my heels in 82744, waiting out the wait  Ah, NS is now passing us, and now we're moving.

Haven't encountered anyone recognizing my AU nick (or the AU logo) on a nametag I got pinned on.

---PCJ


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## Agent (Oct 29, 2016)

Video from Fan Railer of the train in Middlesex, New Jersey.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 29, 2016)

RailRide said:


> Cooling my heels in 82744, waiting out the wait  Ah, NS is now passing us, and now we're moving.
> 
> Haven't encountered anyone recognizing my AU nick (or the AU logo) on a nametag I got pinned on.
> 
> ---PCJ


I think I'm in 82647 with a few others scattered about in the same car


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

We're heading to the Rockville Bridge to wye.


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Caught a glimpse of GG1 4859, as we passed the Harrisburg station....lookin' great! 

Two years ago, it was under a shroud...


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Heard something interesting...from Lancaster we will be going "pans up"!

The 642 will be powering us all the way home...


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Hiball Lancaster, 805...next station stop, NYP!


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Oct 29, 2016)

railiner said:


> Hiball Lancaster, 805...next station stop, NYP!


Technically NWK, then NYP.


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Hiball Lancaster, 805...next station stop, NYP!
> ...


Good catch!


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## Agent (Oct 29, 2016)

Here's a couple more videos. First one is at Hershey, Pennsylvania by YouTube user NS913.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 29, 2016)

Pan was put up in Lancaster.


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Just passed Trenton...


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## Acela150 (Oct 29, 2016)

Man my luck is really bad today.. Went out to take photos of the train at Wynnewood, heard the shutter go off, and no photos... So needless to say I've dropped more F bombs at my camera then I can remember.


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Passing Princeton Junction...


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## Ryan (Oct 29, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> Man my luck is really bad today.. Went out to take photos of the train at Wynnewood, heard the shutter go off, and no photos... So needless to say I've dropped more F bombs at my camera then I can remember.


Put the memory card in next time.


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## Acela150 (Oct 29, 2016)

Ryan said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Man my luck is really bad today.. Went out to take photos of the train at Wynnewood, heard the shutter go off, and no photos... So needless to say I've dropped more F bombs at my camera then I can remember.
> ...


That's the worst part.. I did several test photos.. Worked fine.. Take photos of the real deal.. I'm hosed..


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Acela150 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


As Scarlet said....."Tomorrow is another day"....


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## railiner (Oct 29, 2016)

Just got home...I would say that the excursion, as usual, was excellent. If only the entire Company could run as well as this trip, with the same wonderful attitude of all the paid employees and the many volunteers. About the only 'glitch' was they had to spend a few minutes on a couple of occasions resetting the air-conditioning on a car, from the ground....

I asked about next year's, and one employee thought they were trying to set one up from Boston....


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## AFS1970 (Oct 30, 2016)

I am sitting in the waiting room, was glad to see the signs saying Autumn Express passengers could wait here. Off to a fun (If early) start to my first Amtrak excursion train.


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## neroden (Oct 30, 2016)

Glad y'all are having a good time. I just got back from an exhausting sequence of trips which meant I've only been home for four days this month so I missed it.


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## Acela150 (Oct 30, 2016)

Got the train at Overbrook today. As well as 670, 42, and 667. Camera decided to be my friend today and worked.  Photos will be posted later... I've been updating OS X today since 6pm...


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 31, 2016)

How was the foliage?


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 31, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> How was the foliage?


EhNot a lot of color.

Here in Delaware the color change is behind schedule.


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## dwmccorm (Nov 4, 2016)

Don't suppose anyone recorded the consist that made up the trains?

BTW: I did notice a large amount of people out taking pictures of the train, but I've not found many of them online. Has anyone found a good collection exterior photos from the trip?

DaveM


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 4, 2016)

dwmccorm said:


> Don't suppose anyone recorded the consist that made up the trains?
> 
> BTW: I did notice a large amount of people out taking pictures of the train, but I've not found many of them online. Has anyone found a good collection exterior photos from the trip?
> 
> DaveM


I don't have the car numbers, but I know the general consist order.

P42 145

P42 42

ACS-64 642

Metroliner Crew Car

Amfleet Merchandise Car

Amfleet Coach 1

Amfleet Coach 2

Amfleet Coach 3

Amfleet Coach 4

Amfleet Cafe 1

Amfleet Coach 5

Amfleet Coach 6

Amfleet Cafe 2

Amfleet Coach 7

Amfleet Coach 8

Amfleet Coach 9

Amfleet Coach 10

There are lots of videos on Youtube but I don't know where any pictures are online. I have a few but I am not sure how to post them.

I was on the trip Sunday and I think it was the most enjoyable of any Amtrak trip I have been on. I especially liked the commentary, and it helped that I got a set of seats to myself. Alot of people gathered in the cafes the entire trip, leaving some empty seats even with a sold out train. I wish they would try doing this in another part of the country sometime, as there are rare mileage routes all over the country. Due to equipment, it would probably be easiest to do out of a major terminal, maybe Chicago or somewhere along the west coast. With the Ski Train coming back to Denver, they could probably also use that equipment for a trip out of Denver. I don't know if there is any extra equipment in some of the smaller terminals such as Miami, Sanford, or New Orleans.


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## Albo5000 (Nov 5, 2016)

http://www.railpictures.net/ has about 6-10 from photographers who were out on both days. You need to filter by Railroad (Amtrak) and then I select "Show" and choose 180 so I can get the maximum amount of Amtrak in my face at one time. As of now, the first photo is about 10-15 from the top, there are a bunch scattered throughout the most recent 50 or so and there are even a few from the Fall Excursion that left GA or NC area the same weekend (as far as I can tell from the comments on those photos)

And yes, youtube has a ton of videos, just search Amtrak Autumn Express, you'll have plenty to look at there too.


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## dwmccorm (Nov 5, 2016)

Good idea on the youtube, I didn't think of that. 

I went through quite a few videos and was able to find one that had good quality and lighting that allowed me to get the numbers. For anyone who is interested, they were:

P42 - 145 (1971 - 2011), P42 - 42 (Veterans), ACS-64 642(Veterans), Metroliner - 9800 (Crew car), Amclub - 85999 (Merchandise car), Amfleet - 82798 (Coach), Amfleet - 82660 (Coach), Amfleet - 82654 (Coach), Amfleet - 82599 (Coach), Amfleet - 43372 (Cafe), Amfleet - 82787 (Coach), Amfleet - 82701 (Coach), Amfleet - 43383 (Cafe), Amfleet - 82744 (Coach), Amfleet - 82745 (Coach),A mfleet - 82647 (Coach), and Amfleet - 82562 (Coach)

DaveM


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 6, 2016)

The 9800 is the former Conference Car initiative. Additionally, I don't believe the merchandise car is categorized as an Amclub.


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