# The Canadian



## Rail Freak

I'm thinking of doing the Canadian. What would you folks suggest, east bound or west bound?

Thanx


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## Bob Dylan

Rail Freak said:


> I'm thinking of doing the Canadian. What would you folks suggest, east bound or west bound?
> 
> Thanx


Follow the Sun is a good motto!  East to West is best is another! You have more daylight when you go West and arrive into Vancouver in the Daytime! It is much cheaper in the Winter , less crowded and be sure sure and look for specials, occasionally you can ride for like $500 in a Roomette, that's a real deal!


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## Rail Freak

jimhudson said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of doing the Canadian. What would you folks suggest, east bound or west bound?
> 
> Thanx
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the Sun is a good motto!  East to West is best is another! You have more daylight when you go West and arrive into Vancouver in the Daytime! It is much cheaper in the Winter , less crowded and be sure sure and look for specials, occasionally you can ride for like $500 in a Roomette, that's a real deal!
Click to expand...

Thanx, I just discovered the express deals offered by VIA. A couple of days ago I applied for a pass port so I'll be prepared to jump on a great deal!!! BTW How often do they offer Exprees Fares?


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## Devil's Advocate

I suggest you ride Westbound, no question about it. These days the Express Deals seem to be in effect whenever the 50% off sale is not. However, I feel the 50% off sale is a better overall value because you have so much more freedom to pick the dates you want instead of waiting to see whatever random dates VIA decides to bless (or recover) with their 75% off sale. I'd move fast though if I were you. Whenever I see a business routinely offering 50-75% off sales I tend to view that as a sign of trouble. Know what I mean?


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> .........I'd move fast though if I were you. Whenever I see a business routinely offering 50-75% off sales I tend to view that as a sign of trouble. Know what I mean?


VIA has been offering deals for years and they are still around.....don’t think they’re going anywhere anytime soon!

I think if you checked into it you would probably find that most of the rooms in a typical consist have been sold at full price. VIA can probably tell how many rooms are going to remain unsold on a particular train on a particular date so the deals are just a way of getting something for that unsold inventory.....once the train leaves the station its lost revenue but that empty room is going anyway!

Here’s VIA #2, Departing Vancouver, BC, July 31, 2011

F40 6428

F40 6453

Baggage 8613

Coach 8123

Coach 8116

Skyline 8515

Diner Empress

Skyline 8505

Macdonald Manor

Drummond Manor

Bliss Manor

Glass-roofed Coach 1720

Butler Manor

Allan Manor

Abbot Manor

Chateau Bienville

Skyline 8502

Diner Fairholme

Elgin Manor

Burton Manor

Lorne Manor

Banff Park


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> I think if you checked into it you would probably find that most of the rooms in a typical consist have been sold at full price.


I can't tell you how many times I was asked if I got in on the 50% or the 75% off sale. Apparently these sales are pretty well patronized by both locals and foreigners. Hopefully VIA's books are rock-solid but when I see the locomotives of their flagship train painted in butt-ugly advertisements I begin to wonder just how well they are really doing.


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## AlanB

Texas Sunset said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think if you checked into it you would probably find that most of the rooms in a typical consist have been sold at full price.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell you how many times I was asked if I got in on the 50% or the 75% off sale. Apparently these sales are pretty well patronized by both locals and foreigners. Hopefully VIA's books are rock-solid but when I see the locomotives of their flagship train painted in butt-ugly advertisements I begin to wonder just how well they are really doing.
Click to expand...

I'm going to come down in the middle here on this one. I agree with NS VIA that the 75% sales are exactly what was said, that VIA has a room or two here and there that they anticipate going empty, so it shows up on those specials.

However, while I won't go so far as to say that it's a sign of serious trouble, that special 50% sale in the middle of the summer is indeed troubling. That is a sign that seats & rooms overall were not selling as well as expected this year. Especially since they repeated the sale. That suggests that sales are down across the board on the LD's.

Mind you, I'm not exactly complaining either since I'll be going to Halifax shortly thanks to that 50% sale.


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## Devil's Advocate

Here are a couple additional data points to add to this equation. First of all, many of the berths and even some entire sleeper cars were empty on my trip earlier this month. I never once had to wait for a dome seat over the course of four days. Our two services per meal were apparently a 30% reduction over previous years. Which makes sense since North America's job market remains weak and is likely to get even weaker in the future.


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> Hopefully VIA's books are rock-solid but when I see the locomotives of their flagship train painted in butt-ugly advertisements I begin to wonder just how well they are really doing.


I really dont know where youre getting the idea VIA is in financial difficulties because they have a seat sale or paint a locomotive……. Sure VIA is underfunded…….really no different than Amtrak.

But if painting a particular locomotive can generate additional revenue and improve the bottom line…….more power to them! They have been doing this for years now and some of the schemes are quite attractive: Telus, CBC……so was Spiderman but its getting dated now. Ill agree, one they could do without is Quebec Loto but that Coors Light Silver Bullet on the Canadian is a classic and I certainly hope its around for awhile.

Back in 2001 VIA was running a Kool-Aid F40 on the Halifax > Sydney Bras dOr. A co-worker's young sons saw it and they just had to go for a ride on the Kool-Aid Train.....So a summer trip was booked on the Ocean to Montreal. Well everyone loved the train so much that theyve done the train trip several times since! And Im sure there are kids out there who had their first train ride after seeing VIA's Spiderman F40s.

(The Spiderman units are slowly disappearing as they are going in for rebuilding and will be repainted anyway)


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully VIA's books are rock-solid but when I see the locomotives of their flagship train painted in butt-ugly advertisements I begin to wonder just how well they are really doing.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don’t know where you’re getting the idea VIA is in financial difficulties because they have a seat sale or paint a locomotive. Sure VIA is underfunded. Really no different than Amtrak.
Click to expand...

I have no idea if VIA is in actual financial trouble or not. But I've read that they have been on the bubble before and I see some aspects of their current operation today that give me pause. As a result I have listed some of my concerns here. What you take away from them is up to you. Maybe every tacky lotto advertisement plastered over their formerly proud looking locomotives is a sign of inherent strength but it sure looked ugly to me and several other people I spoke to about it. Not one single person was in the "Wow, I was finally able to save up for a $1,500 ticket to ride the famous Lotto Train!" group.


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> ...........Not one single person was in the "Wow, I was finally able to save up for a $1,500 ticket to ride the famous Lotto Train!" group.


Does the colour of a F40 really matter to the average passenger on board? I don’t think so.....they’re more interested in the Dome and Observation view from the inside out!

It’s a Railfan Thing!....... If VIA’s not running perfectly matched Budd Stainless Steel hauled by a locomotive in a traditional paint scheme.....it's sacrilegious! Excuse me......but VIA is not running a railfan excursion and as I said if wrapping a locomotive can generate additional revenue and improve the bottom line.......more power to them.

When VIA started running the “Panorama” glass roof cars on the Canadian, some of those posting to several of the railfan forums in Canada were all aghast that VIA could do such a thing......add a smooth sided car and break that matched Stainless Steel! To heck with the passenger paying to ride....don't ruin my photo!


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## Devil's Advocate

I agree with those who say the panorama cars stick out like a sore thumb compared to rest of the carefully matched and maintained rolling stock, but they're nothing compared to _this_ monstrosity.






From a distance it looked like it had suffered a major fire.

Up close it looked amazingly tacky and distracting.

Nothing about that livery implies a luxurious flagship ride through beautiful scenery.

But something about it _does_ imply a last ditch effort at solvency.


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> I agree with those who say the panorama cars stick out like a sore thumb compared to rest of the carefully matched and maintained rolling stock, but they're nothing compared to _this_ monstrosity.


I’m sorry you feel the Panorama cars stick out like a sore thumb and ruin your image of a perfectly matched train. But did you ever think that the passengers who the cars are actually being run for might enjoy them?

Yes 6414 is one unit that could use a paint job but it has nothing to do with ‘a last ditch effort at solvency’

VIA is currently in the middle of $100 million program rebuilding their F40 fleet (is that the sign of an insolvent company??...... and only part of nearly $1 billion in capital expenditures) 6414 has been in the Loto scheme for 4 or 5 years and will shortly be entering the shops at CAD Industries.......it won’t be repainted until then.

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/our-company/capital-investment-plan/BK071211E-%20F-40%20Rebuild%20Award%20Announcement.pdf

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-company/capital-investment

Do 90% of the passengers on the Canadian even see the locomotive hauling their train? Most would board in the larger stations where the power is stopped outside of the trainshed. Sure a few might see it pulling in and some may walk forward while the train is serviced but do they really care how it’s painted?


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## jis

NS VIA Fan said:


> Do 90% of the passengers on the Canadian even see the locomotive hauling their train? Most would board in the larger stations where the power is stopped outside of the trainshed. Sure a few might see it pulling in and some may walk forward while the train is serviced but do they really care how it’s painted?


Ah! But the frothing railfans do! And aren't trains basically run for the railfans pleasure mostly?


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## Bill Haithcoat

On the subject of matched consists, it is important to note that even in "the day" not every train would have a matched consist. Oh sure, when first built they usually would. But cars would often be switched around to over trains where they were needed more.newer cars built later (but not completely replacing the original cars.)

The quality of a train was much better determined by the interior furnishings and comfort and speed, rather than a matching consist.

Also keep in mind that many trains were operated by more than one railroad and such railroads would often not have matching colors.

As to the Canadian, in its early days it had some heavyweight sleepers painted silver running as a type of budget sleeper (sort of a precursor of the slumbercoach) So that certainly was not a stylistic match.CP's competition, CN, ran the Supercontinental which was a beautiful brownish or greenish. It had a few tourist sleepers also which may have been a color match but would not quite have been a stylistic match.


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## Bob Dylan

As always Bill H's( our Resident Old Days guru) info on Trains from back in the day is appreciated! And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, Ive found VIAs consists and equipment to be damn impressive compared to the dirty, run to death, mismatching equipment that Amtrak turns out most days! Always good to see the pictures and info from North of the Border, and I agree with Chris that that one piece of equipment is hideous, Im not a big fan of wrapped equipment but do realize that revenue is revenue no matter where the hard pressed Passenger Rail Operators find it! (Ready for an Apple Lounge!)

I personally wish Amtrak had some of those cars pictured, beats the cruddy diner-lite/lounge cars and the long in the tooth Superliner Sightseers that run on the Eagle/Cono! Imagine how nice they would be on the Cardinal, the Adirondack,the Maple Leaf,the Crescent and the Lake Shore!!


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## NS VIA Fan

NS VIA Fan said:


> Yes 6414 is one unit that could use a paint job but it has nothing to do with ‘a last ditch effort at solvency’
> 
> VIA is currently in the middle of $100 million program rebuilding their F40 fleet.......


Give 6414 six months or so and it will emerge from the rebuild program looking like this....... And yes there’s probably those out there all aghast with how could VIA alter that beautiful roof-line by adding the HEP compartment on the F-40s rear platform......blasphemy!......and that trailing Renaissance equipment......Don't even go there!


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> Yes 6414 is one unit that could use a paint job but it has nothing to do with ‘a last ditch effort at solvency.’ Do 90% of the passengers on the Canadian even see the locomotive hauling their train? Most would board in the larger stations where the power is stopped outside of the trainshed. Sure a few might see it pulling in and some may walk forward while the train is serviced but do they really care how it’s painted?


I have no idea if most passengers care or not as I did not walk around with a survey asking everyone about their views. The only opinion I can give you is mine. I felt the Lotto locomotive was butt ugly pulling an otherwise beautiful train. I was surprised to see such tacky advertisements on a flagship train. Maybe everyone else expects this sort of thing but nothing in VIA's literature gave me any indication that they were using their trains as mobile billboards.


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## NS VIA Fan

Bill Haithcoat said:


> As to the Canadian, in its early days it had some heavyweight sleepers painted silver running as a type of budget sleeper.......


Yes, the “U” Series sleepers……and not just painted but with fluted stainless-steel panels added to the sides. The cars retained their clerestory roof. Photo here:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~bgrgroup/CPR_U_Sleeper.html

http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> Maybe everyone else expects this sort of thing but nothing in VIA's literature gave me any indication that they were using their trains as mobile billboards.


Yes, VIA should certainly publish a warning to potential passengers that their train could be hauled by a locomotive in a paint scheme that might not be particularly appealing to them!


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe everyone else expects this sort of thing but nothing in VIA's literature gave me any indication that they were using their trains as mobile billboards.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, VIA should certainly publish a warning to potential passengers that their train could be hauled by a locomotive in a paint scheme that might not be particularly appealing to them!
Click to expand...

Is VIA your parent's employer? The primary component of a life-dominating hobby? The subject of your college thesis? What exactly is the basis for your hyper-emotional connection to VIA anyway?


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> Is VIA your parent's employer? The primary component of a life-dominating hobby? The subject of your college thesis? What exactly is the basis for your hyper-emotional connection to VIA anyway?


I like VIA!


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is VIA your parent's employer? The primary component of a life-dominating hobby? The subject of your college thesis? What exactly is the basis for your hyper-emotional connection to VIA anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I like VIA!
Click to expand...

And what exactly do you like about them?


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is VIA your parent's employer? The primary component of a life-dominating hobby? The subject of your college thesis? What exactly is the basis for your hyper-emotional connection to VIA anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I like VIA!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And what exactly do you like about them?
Click to expand...

.........


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## MikefromCrete

Amtrak and most local transit systems often "wrap" their cars in advertising. These ads are removed after a set amount of time that the advertiser is paying for. For instance, the "Looney Tunes" Amfleet car and the "Wheel of Fortune" Horizon car. Once the advertising contracts expire, the ads are removed. VIA, however, tends to keep these advertisements on their locomotives long after their expiration date. Those Spiderman and Quebec Lotto locomotives have been around for years. Remove the wraps or repaint the locos, for Pete's sake!


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## Ryan

Texas Sunset said:


> Maybe everyone else expects this sort of thing but nothing in VIA's literature gave me any indication that they were using their trains as mobile billboards.


You're right, this sort of thing never happens on Amtrak. 





Here comes the Boss! by Ryan Stavely, on Flickr


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## Devil's Advocate

I think even you'd agree that there is a difference between a *commuter* trip that lasts at most a few _hours_ at a cost of maybe *$300* and a nearly transcontinental ride on a *flagship* train that lasts four _days_ at a cost of *$1,300 - $2,500* for a single compartment. If you have a picture of the Empire Builder in a Harrah's Casino wrap then you might have a point.



NS VIA Fan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NS VIA Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is VIA your parent's employer? The primary component of a life-dominating hobby? The subject of your college thesis? What exactly is the basis for your hyper-emotional connection to VIA anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> I like VIA!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And what exactly do you like about them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .........
Click to expand...

Well, that was your chance to wax poetic about all the various things you enjoy about VIA. Since all you have to say in reply is a bit of unintelligible Morse code I guess our discussion is complete.


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## Ryan

No, I can't see much of a difference between Amtrak's *flagship* train at costs significantly greater than other modes of transportation.

It's a stupid thing for anyone to get annoyed about, Via or Amtrak, and it's utterly ridiculous to expect either company to notify you in advance of any changes in the pain job on the train that pulls you.


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## Tracktwentynine

Rail Freak said:


> I'm thinking of doing the Canadian. What would you folks suggest, east bound or west bound?
> 
> Thanx


I think this thread might have gotten ever-so-slightly off topic.

I took the _Canadian_ westbound. I felt that it was really the only way to travel. I mean, it was my first transcontinental train trip (I started in Halifax). And it just seemed appropriate to go west, like the settlers did. On the other hand, both directions will be spectacular. If you don't have a particular attachment to one direction, just take whichever is cheaper.

Of course, if you care about having a matched trainset - if wrapped ads and the occasional mismatched car makes you nauseous - the Acela is really the only way to go. Though, as Ryan pointed out, it gets wrapped, too.


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## Devil's Advocate

You're obviously out looking for another fight. I posted my view based on my personal experience. If you think my opinion of VIA's tacky advertising is stupid then that's your problem.


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## Ryan

I'm just looking for some sanity. You're the one that drug a thread about the Canadian into the solvency of Via Rail and then into what one of the locomotives look like, rather than focus on any relevant details of the train.


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## Devil's Advocate

It takes two to tango. Or maybe you could drop your guard and tell us how your own VIA rail experience went.


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## Ryan

Just as soon as I get up there, I will (and I guarantee that what the locomotives looked like won't be a part of the report).


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## jis

Ryan said:


> No, I can't see much of a difference between Amtrak's *flagship* train at costs significantly greater than other modes of transportation.
> 
> It's a stupid thing for anyone to get annoyed about, Via or Amtrak, and it's utterly ridiculous to expect either company to notify you in advance of any changes in the pain job on the train that pulls you.


Yes I find Texas's obsession quite intriguing. It is also fascinating that he does not see any similarity between his fixation about a paint scheme and NS VIA's liking of VIA. But it takes many sorts of individual sillinesses, which each of us have and on occasions are proud of, to make it an interesting world.


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## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> Yes I find Texas's obsession quite intriguing. It is also fascinating that he does not see any similarity between his fixation about a paint scheme and NS VIA's liking of VIA. But it takes many sorts of individual sillinesses, which each of us have and on occasions are proud of, to make it an interesting world.


I would suppose the difference is that I've done my best to explain what precisely I didn't like about it. Silly or not the explanation is there. Some of the things I liked were the improved food quality, the generally professional but sometimes quirky staff, and the incredibly interesting sleeper cars. I was genuinely curious why NA VIA was so enamored with VIA. It's just another company to me that doesn't elicit any specific love or hate. It has a rather unique train with The Canadian but _most_ of what VIA does as a company is standard passenger railway stuff that is neither at the top or bottom of the scale. Kind of a middle-of-the-road operation from the looks of things.


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## jis

Texas Sunset said:


> I would suppose the difference is that I've done my best to explain what precisely I didn't like about it. Silly or not the explanation is there. Some of the things I liked were the improved food quality, the generally professional but sometimes quirky staff, and the incredibly interesting sleeper cars. I was genuinely curious why NA VIA was so enamored with VIA. It's just another company to me that doesn't elicit any specific love or hate. It has a rather unique train with The Canadian but _most_ of what VIA does as a company is standard passenger railway stuff that is neither at the top or bottom of the scale. Kind of a middle-of-the-road operation from the looks of things.


Yup, everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is hard to force anyone to share theirs, or articulate the reason for a particular opinion unless they want to do so. Hence I find it pointless to keep pressing VIA or anyone else. If he wanted to have a discussion with you on the matter he would have. For whatever reason he does not. So let it go.


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## Anderson

Given that the only tango going on here seems to have been written by Tom Lehrer, I hesitate to enter the fray. But I'll say that a WB trip has the benefit of 25-hour days on two occasions while the EB trip has 23-hour days twice. Other than that, I think they're mainly the same trip...though I'm not sure if there are any menu differences, etc. When I take the Canadian, it will likely be EB...but that is more a function of starting with a trip to Iowa and going from there than anything.


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## jis

Looks like eastbound you get to see more of the mountains between Kamloops North and Hinton in daytime, but miss the opening hours of the railroad museum in Winnipeg. Westbound less daylight time in the mountains, specially with daylight growing shorter with the change of season, but at Winnipeg during hours that the museum is open.

Personally I have never traveled on the slower 4 day schedule on this train. My many rides on this train were all on the previous 3 day schedule, including on the last day of the 3 day schedule eastbound.


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## Rail Freak

Thanx !!!!! :unsure:


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## guest

Texas Sunset said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I find Texas's obsession quite intriguing. It is also fascinating that he does not see any similarity between his fixation about a paint scheme and NS VIA's liking of VIA. But it takes many sorts of individual sillinesses, which each of us have and on occasions are proud of, to make it an interesting world.
> 
> 
> 
> I would suppose the difference is that I've done my best to explain what precisely I didn't like about it. Silly or not the explanation is there. Some of the things I liked were the improved food quality, the generally professional but sometimes quirky staff, and the incredibly interesting sleeper cars. I was genuinely curious why NA VIA was so enamored with VIA. It's just another company to me that doesn't elicit any specific love or hate. It has a rather unique train with The Canadian but _most_ of what VIA does as a company is standard passenger railway stuff that is neither at the top or bottom of the scale. Kind of a middle-of-the-road operation from the looks of things.
Click to expand...

It's a shame Amtrak can't operate as well as VIA.


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## MikefromCrete

guest said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I find Texas's obsession quite intriguing. It is also fascinating that he does not see any similarity between his fixation about a paint scheme and NS VIA's liking of VIA. But it takes many sorts of individual sillinesses, which each of us have and on occasions are proud of, to make it an interesting world.
> 
> 
> 
> I would suppose the difference is that I've done my best to explain what precisely I didn't like about it. Silly or not the explanation is there. Some of the things I liked were the improved food quality, the generally professional but sometimes quirky staff, and the incredibly interesting sleeper cars. I was genuinely curious why NA VIA was so enamored with VIA. It's just another company to me that doesn't elicit any specific love or hate. It has a rather unique train with The Canadian but _most_ of what VIA does as a company is standard passenger railway stuff that is neither at the top or bottom of the scale. Kind of a middle-of-the-road operation from the looks of things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a shame Amtrak can't operate as well as VIA.
Click to expand...

All Amtrak would have to do cancel two-thirds of its trains and run all long distance trains three days a week. Yeah, that would work.


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## Ryan

Texas Sunset said:


> If you have a picture of the Empire Builder in a Harrah's Casino wrap then you might have a point.


Will you settle for the Texas Eagle with a Toyota Tundra wrap?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=91543&nseq=30


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## Devil's Advocate

Ryan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a picture of the Empire Builder in a Harrah's Casino wrap then you might have a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Will you settle for the Texas Eagle with a Toyota Tundra wrap?
Click to expand...

Well, it's closer at any rate.

Toyota would have been in the process of building their first (truck) plant in Texas (here in San Antonio) when that photo was taken. The image of a pickup on rail trucks is just interesting enough to be worth a second look. I expect ads on commuter and corridor services since that's not so uncommon, but VIA was the first time I ever saw a big tacky ad be part of a luxurious tourist train. I'm not sure what to call the Texas Eagle, but it's not terribly luxurious. Seems to get whatever is left over after making sure the higher priority trains are taken care of.


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## Bob Dylan

Ryan said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a picture of the Empire Builder in a Harrah's Casino wrap then you might have a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Will you settle for the Texas Eagle with a Toyota Tundra wrap?
> 
> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=91543&nseq=30
Click to expand...

I actually saw that one Ryan, it was sort of Ironic! Wonder if this Engine was like the old Fighters in WWII that painted a Plane on their side everytime they shot down an enemy plane? Trucks and Trains seem to be involved in most Crossing accidents, so looks like this Engine got itself a Tundra!


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## NS VIA Fan

MikefromCrete said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame Amtrak can't operate as well as VIA.
> 
> 
> 
> All Amtrak would have to do cancel two-thirds of its trains and run all long distance trains three days a week. Yeah, that would work.
Click to expand...

Actually VIA provides a service for a greater density of train usage in Canada than Amtrak does in the US.

In 2010, VIA carried 4.4 million passengers.......On a per capita basis (the US has about 10 times the population of Canada) to equal that density of usage, Amtrak would have had to carry over 44 million passengers.....or about a third more than the 28.7 million they did carry.

And not all long distance trains are tri-weekly.....the Ocean for example.....but I will concede its daily except Tuesdays.


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## Bill Haithcoat

jis said:


> Looks like eastbound you get to see more of the mountains between Kamloops North and Hinton in daytime, but miss the opening hours of the railroad museum in Winnipeg. Westbound less daylight time in the mountains, specially with daylight growing shorter with the change of season, but at Winnipeg during hours that the museum is open.
> 
> Personally I have never traveled on the slower 4 day schedule on this train. My many rides on this train were all on the previous 3 day schedule, including on the last day of the 3 day schedule eastbound.


I had the pleasure of doing a four nighter once. This was in the early 70s. Out on the CN Super Continental, which was a four night run, and back on CP Canadian, a three night run. I enjoyed all of it.I was in a roomette on each train. That is the type of roomette which would be called "heritage" today on Amtrak, fully designed for one person.


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## jis

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I had the pleasure of doing a four nighter once. This was in the early 70s. Out on the CN Super Continental, which was a four night run, and back on CP Canadian, a three night run. I enjoyed all of it.I was in a roomette on each train. That is the type of roomette which would be called "heritage" today on Amtrak, fully designed for one person.


Were the single roomettes then like the ones in the Manor cars used in the Canadian today where you have to get off your bed and stow it into the wall tog et access to the Commode?


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## NS VIA Fan

jis said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had the pleasure of doing a four nighter once. This was in the early 70s. Out on the CN Super Continental, which was a four night run, and back on CP Canadian, a three night run. I enjoyed all of it.I was in a roomette on each train. That is the type of roomette which would be called "heritage" today on Amtrak, fully designed for one person.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the single roomettes then like the ones in the Manor cars used in the Canadian today where you have to get off your bed and stow it into the wall tog et access to the Commode?
Click to expand...

Yes, scroll down in this link for cut-away views:

http://members.kos.net/sdgagnon/canb.html

What's shown here is a "Duplex" Roomette but a standard Roomette is very similar.....no step-up and the sink is in the corner.


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## jis

NS VIA Fan said:


> MikefromCrete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame Amtrak can't operate as well as VIA.
> 
> 
> 
> All Amtrak would have to do cancel two-thirds of its trains and run all long distance trains three days a week. Yeah, that would work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually VIA provides a service for a greater density of train usage in Canada than Amtrak does in the US.
> 
> In 2010, VIA carried 4.4 million passengers.......On a per capita basis (the US has about 10 times the population of Canada) to equal that density of usage, Amtrak would have had to carry over 44 million passengers.....or about a third more than the 28.7 million they did carry.
> 
> And not all long distance trains are tri-weekly.....the Ocean for example.....but I will concede it’s daily except Tuesdays.
Click to expand...

I also somehow have the impression, which may be inaccurate, that the Canadian for example, has a much more dense set of flag stops than equivalent Amtrak routes.

I would still like a little more frequent service on the VIA Corridors (Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal as well as Montreal/Quebec City) than at present, and specially a train each in the morning and evening shoulder hours. But that's probably just me.

Last weekend I found the true utility of having a lowly train like 66/67 (former Night owl) on the NEC when the Cardinal showed up in New York with me on board at 2:35 am. The existence of 66/67 made it possible for me to get home and get some Zzzs before going into work. Absent that it would have been an entirely sleepless night, well except for the sleep I got in my Sleeper on the Cardinal. And to my utter astonishment, 67 was almost SRO and it was not even short a car or anything like that.


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## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> I also somehow have the impression, which may be inaccurate, that the Canadian for example, has a much more dense set of flag stops than equivalent Amtrak routes.


They'll stop at nothing more developed than a rural highway crossing if you request it far enough in advance. It's kind of amazing actually. My understanding is that Amtrak has been cutting back on both flag stops and primary stops but I'm not sure why.


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## jis

Texas Sunset said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also somehow have the impression, which may be inaccurate, that the Canadian for example, has a much more dense set of flag stops than equivalent Amtrak routes.
> 
> 
> 
> They'll stop at nothing more developed than a rural highway crossing if you request it far enough in advance. It's kind of amazing actually. My understanding is that Amtrak has been cutting back on both flag stops and primary stops but I'm not sure why.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Red Lake Road comes to mind as such a stop. My neighbor in the Sleeper on my ride westbound traveled all the way from Toronto to that flag stop to visit her parents who came to pick her up. She was delightful company on the way, and the train stopped long enough at the flag stop for me to even get introduced to her parents. The station is a gravel parking lot off of Red Lake Road at the point where the road crosses the railroad. She said she was returning by Coach a few days later on the eastbound.

That was an eye opening example of the basic transportation function that the Canadian serves in spite of everyone here saying that it is just a tourist train. I bet no "tourist" ever gets off or on at these dozens of flag stops.


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## Bill Haithcoat

jis said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had the pleasure of doing a four nighter once. This was in the early 70s. Out on the CN Super Continental, which was a four night run, and back on CP Canadian, a three night run. I enjoyed all of it.I was in a roomette on each train. That is the type of roomette which would be called "heritage" today on Amtrak, fully designed for one person.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the single roomettes then like the ones in the Manor cars used in the Canadian today where you have to get off your bed and stow it into the wall tog et access to the Commode?
Click to expand...

As many older style roomettes as I have ridden, I really do not remember. I do not recall it being a problem, I guess the larger luggage was slid into a side.


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also somehow have the impression, which may be inaccurate, that the Canadian for example, has a much more dense set of flag stops than equivalent Amtrak routes.
> 
> 
> 
> They'll stop at nothing more developed than a rural highway crossing if you request it far enough in advance. It's kind of amazing actually. My understanding is that Amtrak has been cutting back on both flag stops and primary stops but I'm not sure why.
Click to expand...

It use to be 48 hours notice but now as long as a reservation is made before the Canadian leaves a major station where a passenger manifest can be generated, it will stop.

On other trains such as the service in Quebec to Jonquiere and Sennterre, the timetable footnote says “stops on request when traveller is seen by train staff”

I did the trip to Jonquiere (sounds like Jonk-e-air) in February a couple of years ago......here’s an excerpt from that trip report:

_At Hervey Jct. the train splits: F40 #6401 uncouples and pulls forward onto the La Tuque Subdivision. The train is also split between the baggage cars. After we depart with 6453 now leading, 6401 will return and couple to the remaining cars and head for Senneterre._

_ _

_Now onto Riviere-a-Pierre and as we approach the stop the Service Manager comes through and asks us to move items off adjacent seats as he says he is going to need every seat as the train will be full. The roads end here and the station parking lot was packed. It’s Friday afternoon and many were heading off to a weekend at their camps, cabins and some pretty nice chalets in the woods. The train is their only access. The baggage car door is opened and the supplies are loaded: boxes of groceries, cases of beer, skis, backpacks etc. _

_ _

_Everyone is speaking French but when my new seatmate realizes I only speak a few words, immediately switches to English and we have an interesting conversation about the local area. Some passengers are only aboard for a few minutes before we begin stopping.....sometimes at a small shelter or only a milepost sign. Some stops are very close, Pearl Lake and Hirondell for example are a half kilometer and a minute apart. This is a real personalized service with most people telling the Service Manager to be watching for them returning Sunday afternoon. At Stadacona we are met by several Skidoos from a camp across a lake. Several get off and unload their supplies from the baggage cars. The rest of the afternoon is spent following a winding white-water river or deep in the bush. (This would be a nice trip in the summer or especially in the fall with all the maples and birches in autumn colours) _












_But we are out of the woods near Chambord just as fast as we entered and into the open fields of an agricultural area surrounding Lac St. Jean. We followed the shoreline of the lake for awhile (it’s about 30 km across) then on into the Saguenay Region which Jonquiere is a part of. Population 150,000. Its an industrial area of hydro-electric developments, aluminum manufacturing and pulp & paper. _

_ _






_ _

_It was just getting dark as we arrived in Jonquiere at 5:50..... about a half hour late at a very modern station with a covered platform and part of a transportation centre shared with the local transit authority. It was starting to snow so I just grabbed a taxi to the Holiday Inn. _


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## Steve4031

Are the panorama dome cars replacing the budd skyline cars entirely? I enjoy the forward view of the classic dome cars, and am looking at this for next summer. Hopefully, I would have a choice.


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## NS VIA Fan

Steve4031 said:


> Are the panorama dome cars replacing the budd skyline cars entirely? I enjoy the forward view of the classic dome cars, and am looking at this for next summer. Hopefully, I would have a choice.


Not at all......only supplementing the other domes. See the other post here on the “New” Canadian


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## zephyr17

Bill Haithcoat said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had the pleasure of doing a four nighter once. This was in the early 70s. Out on the CN Super Continental, which was a four night run, and back on CP Canadian, a three night run. I enjoyed all of it.I was in a roomette on each train. That is the type of roomette which would be called "heritage" today on Amtrak, fully designed for one person.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the single roomettes then like the ones in the Manor cars used in the Canadian today where you have to get off your bed and stow it into the wall tog et access to the Commode?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As many older style roomettes as I have ridden, I really do not remember. I do not recall it being a problem, I guess the larger luggage was slid into a side.
Click to expand...

They are still running the same cars, Manor and Chateau, they always have, with the same roomettes. The Manors have "regular" roomettes where the beds fold into the wall, and you have lift the bed to get to the "combolet" (the Budd term for the little square commode/footrest). The Chateaus have duplex roomettes where alternating rooms have beds that fold down from the wall (upper duplex), or slide under the adjacent (upper duplex) roomette (lower). In either case, you have to stow the bed to get to the pot.


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## pennyk

I will be taking the Canadian in early December. I have read posts that indicate that coffee and tea will be provided in the Park Car 24/7. Does anyone know if green tea is provided?

Also, does anyone know if one can store luggage in the Vancouver train station? I will be arriving on the Canadian in the morning and leaving on the Cascades in the late afternoon and would like to explore Vancouver without my luggage (weather permitting).

Thank you.


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## Devil's Advocate

Even if there isn't any green tea set out you should be able to ask for some teabags before last call and have them ready for you. Like any other long distance train The Canadian sort of closes up and goes to sleep late at night. You may see a crew member now and again when approaching a stop but for the most part it's quiet and deserted. This included the Park Car on my trip. I don't remember the specifics but it was possible to make tea on your own when no staff was around. According to VIA there is baggage storage in the Vancouver station during the following periods.

Monday Wednesday Saturday

08h00 to 13h00

Tuesday Friday Sunday

12h00 to 20h00


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## AlanB

Penny,

I recall a wooden box with various types of tea sitting on a table in the rear lounge area, where the car tapers to a curve. I didn't really pay attention to just what types of tea where in the box, but there were several choices. So the odds are probably in your favor that one is Green, but I sure wouldn't want to promise you that.

The attendant that works the Park car goes to bed at either 11 PM or Midnight, don't recall which, but they don't stay up all night. I suspect that they leave the coffee/hot water dispensers out on the table and full at least initially. Can't swear that you'd still find it full of hot water however at say 4 AM.

And yes, they most certainly do provide luggage storage. We took advantage of that when we did our trip. Mind you since we were leaving from Vancouver we dropped off our luggage in the morning and went out for the day. When we came back we just went right to the lounge and had no need to worry about our bags at all. Our checked bags had of course already gone to the baggage car and our carry-on's they had already placed in our room for us. So all we carried onto the train was ourselves and my laptop backpack. I believe that they provide the same luxury in Toronto too, but I'm not 100% sure.

Of course you can't avail yourself of that luxury in Vancouver, but again they should still hold your bags for you for the day.

Remember to use the first class lounge in Toronto to wait for your train.


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## NS VIA Fan

Texas Sunset said:


> I agree with those who say the panorama cars stick out like a sore thumb compared to rest of the carefully matched and maintained rolling stock, but they're nothing compared to _this_ monstrosity.


You (and many others) will be happy to know that 6414 finally entered CAD in Montreal on November 21, 2011 and will emerge in the spring in the green Renaissance scheme!.......and completely re-built too......note the HEP compartment constructed on the rear platform in the photo below.



NS VIA Fan said:


>


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## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> You (and many others) will be happy to know that 6414 finally entered CAD in Montreal on November 21, 2011 and will emerge in the spring in the green Renaissance scheme!.......and completely re-built too......note the HEP compartment constructed on the rear platform in the photo below.


Excellent News! ^_^


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## Penny

I'm on Canadian about 90 miles west of winnipeg at rivers. There is a freight derailment. Anyone know sanything


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## pennyk

Penny said:


> I'm on Canadian about 90 miles west of winnipeg at rivers. There is a freight derailment. Anyone know sanything


We are now in Edmonton 10 hours late.


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## Devil's Advocate

pennyk said:


> Penny said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on Canadian about 90 miles west of winnipeg at rivers. There is a freight derailment. Anyone know sanything
> 
> 
> 
> We are now in Edmonton 10 hours late.
Click to expand...

You mean you're going to pass through some of the best scenery at night? 

Do you also have a connection at risk in Vancouver?

Hang in there Penny! :help:


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## pennyk

Texas Sunset said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penny said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on Canadian about 90 miles west of winnipeg at rivers. There is a freight derailment. Anyone know sanything
> 
> 
> 
> We are now in Edmonton 10 hours late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean you're going to pass through some of the best scenery at night?
> 
> Do you also have a connection at risk in Vancouver?
> 
> Hang in there Penny! :help:
Click to expand...

I was in the dome car, along with everyone else, traveling through the mountains. We were able to see some very nice scenery. I am in Jasper now. Yes, my VAC connection to SEA is at risk, but I was just told by the service manager that i should make it. I sure hope so because I taking the CS at 9:45 the next morning from SEA - i hope.


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## AlanB

pennyk said:


> I was in the dome car, along with everyone else, traveling through the mountains. We were able to see some very nice scenery. I am in Jasper now. Yes, my VAC connection to SEA is at risk, but I was just told by the service manager that i should make it. I sure hope so because I taking the CS at 9:45 the next morning from SEA - i hope.


While not ideal, there is a 5:45 AM Amtrak Thruway Bus to Seattle that gets in 45 minutes before the Coast Starlight's departure.

Of course that means finding a hotel in Vancouver and cancelling the one in Seattle.


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## pennyk

AlanB said:


> pennyk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was in the dome car, along with everyone else, traveling through the mountains. We were able to see some very nice scenery. I am in Jasper now. Yes, my VAC connection to SEA is at risk, but I was just told by the service manager that i should make it. I sure hope so because I taking the CS at 9:45 the next morning from SEA - i hope.
> 
> 
> 
> While not ideal, there is a 5:45 AM Amtrak Thruway Bus to Seattle that gets in 45 minutes before the Coast Starlight's departure.
> 
> Of course that means finding a hotel in Vancouver and cancelling the one in Seattle.
Click to expand...

We made it in just before 4pm and I am waiting to check in with customs at 4:30. 

I might be getting a voucher for 50% of my fare since the train was more than 4 hours late. It looks like I have a VIA trip in my future.


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## Bob Dylan

:hi: Glad you made it Penny! Bet its warmer even if its damp in Vancouver, actually Vancouver generally is dryer and warmer than Seattle in the Winter, its protected by Vancouver Island!! hope the trip down to SEA goes well and Customs isnt a hassle, the way you are dressed they might think youre a Canadian eh!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Guess youll be riding "The Ocean" to the Maritimes when you use your discount coupon??? :wub:


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## pennyk

jimhudson said:


> :hi: Glad you made it Penny! Bet its warmer even if its damp in Vancouver, actually Vancouver generally is dryer and warmer than Seattle in the Winter, its protected by Vancouver Island!! hope the trip down to SEA goes well and Customs isnt a hassle, the way you are dressed they might think youre a Canadian eh!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Guess youll be riding "The Ocean" to the Maritimes when you use your discount coupon??? :wub:


I never got out of the VAC station. I am sitting on the cascades now waiting to depart. They will not sell alcohol until they leave the station. 

Yes, I am thinking about a trip on the Ocean next year or another Canadian trip - eastbound.


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## AlanB

Glad you made it with time to spare, even if you missed out on seeing Vancouver.

Maybe you can console yourself with views of Vancouver, Washington on the Coast Starlight tomorrow. :lol:


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