# Boston North-South connection via Grand Junction Rail Road



## Steve4031 (Sep 7, 2022)

The one issue that I have not seen mentioned is the trains from Portland, Maine terminate at Boston North Station. IIRC there are not maintenance facilities there for Amtrak. Perhaps the train could be serviced in Montreal if this was a Canada-based operation. 

I would think that maybe a train that originates in Portland, travels to Boston, North Station, and then continues west to Springfield and then north to Montreal might be viable. I am not sure how the train would get to the line west to Springfield. IIRC there is a way for trainsets to make their way to Boston south station. This would probably allow a connection to the line west to Springfields.


----------



## Tlcooper93 (Sep 7, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> The one issue that I have not seen mentioned is the trains from Portland, Maine terminate at Boston North Station. IIRC there are not maintenance facilities there for Amtrak. Perhaps the train could be serviced in Montreal if this was a Canada-based operation.
> 
> I would think that maybe a train that originates in Portland, travels to Boston, North Station, and then continues west to Springfield and then north to Montreal might be viable. I am not sure how the train would get to the line west to Springfield. IIRC there is a way for trainsets to make their way to Boston south station. This would probably allow a connection to the line west to Springfields.


The line you’re thinking of is Grand junction railroad, which is a far cry from ever having any form of revenue service operations on it.

It would be easier to build maintenance facilities at North Station for a montreal bound night train than to upgrade GJR, which travels through several high traffic grade crossings like Mass Ave, as well as crossing a bridge where the current speed limit is 5mph.

Where does the Downeaster get serviced if not north station?


----------



## Fenway (Sep 8, 2022)

Tlcooper93 said:


> The line you’re thinking of is Grand junction railroad, which is a far cry from ever having any form of revenue service operations on it.
> 
> It would be easier to build maintenance facilities at North Station for a montreal bound night train than to upgrade GJR, which travels through several high traffic grade crossings like Mass Ave, as well as crossing a bridge where the current speed limit is 5mph.
> 
> Where does the Downeaster get serviced if not north station?


The Grand Junction RR has a chance to be viable again. 

A new generation of Cambridge politicians sees the value of a commuter rail station near MIT. 

Maura Healey will be the next Governor and she supports building the connection between South and North Station and electrifying the present system.


----------



## Tlcooper93 (Sep 8, 2022)

Fenway said:


> The Grand Junction RR has a chance to be viable again.
> 
> A new generation of Cambridge politicians sees the value of a commuter rail station near MIT.
> 
> Maura Healey will be the next Governor and she supports building the connection between South and North Station and electrifying the present system.


I don't agree, nor do I agree that the new governor/cambridge politicians is somehow a magic bullet for all of these problems.
Of course GJRR has a _chance_ to be viable again, but it is highly unlikely. What anyone proposes to do will have to solve not just one, but four or five major problems. I foresee at least a billion dollars going into that in order to make it work again.

I do support a North-South connect, but it certainly won't happen given the people's mistrust of any public works project after the big dig. Beyond that, I don't see it as helpful as most people think. Electrification is another story, and I highly support it.

This is all off topic however. I stand by my original statement. It would be cheaper and easier to simply build Amtrak servicing facilities for night trains north of the river than to reactivate GJRR.


----------



## west point (Sep 8, 2022)

Would GJRR if passenger able be a route for some Worcester MBTA trains. Have no idea what the commuter traffic would be. It might even be able to have extra sections for Garden events.? As well an iAmtrak nland route train or 2 to BON for connections to the Downeaster..

Had not ever thought about a MIT stop. That does have potential for both MBTA and Amtrak.


----------



## jis (Sep 9, 2022)

I doubt that a ground level alignment of GJRR with frequent service is practical. OTOH an elevated line, if the MIT folks and neighbors can get over their NIMBY scruples, can be quite practical and useful.


----------



## Tlcooper93 (Sep 9, 2022)

jis said:


> I doubt that a ground level alignment of GJRR with frequent service is practical. OTOH an elevated line, if the MIT folks and neighbors can get over their NIMBY scruples, can be quite practical and useful.


Not only that, but a significt portion of tracks are covered by MIT buildings; we would have to convince them to demolish some of their structures in order to accommodate high tracks.


----------



## jis (Sep 9, 2022)

Tlcooper93 said:


> Not only that, but a significt portion of tracks are covered by MIT buildings; we would have to convince them to demolish some of their structures in order to accommodate high tracks.


Or they could somehow figure out a way to run them under Mass Ave. and Main St. instead of crossing at grade.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Sep 13, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> The one issue that I have not seen mentioned is the trains from Portland, Maine terminate at Boston North Station. IIRC there are not maintenance facilities there for Amtrak. Perhaps the train could be serviced in Montreal if this was a Canada-based operation.
> 
> I would think that maybe a train that originates in Portland, travels to Boston, North Station, and then continues west to Springfield and then north to Montreal might be viable. I am not sure how the train would get to the line west to Springfield. IIRC there is a way for trainsets to make their way to Boston south station. This would probably allow a connection to the line west to Springfields.


A possibly more viable option for the train you propose is to use the Pan Am Worcester Main which runs from Ayer to Worcester where it connects with the CSX line to Springfield. It would need upgrading as it is presently dark territory and at best a 25 mph speed if that. This was the route for through trains from New York to Portland and points north before WW2.


----------



## Siegmund (Sep 13, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> A possibly more viable option for the train you propose is to use the Pan Am Worcester Main which runs from Ayer to Worcester where it connects with the CSX line to Springfield. It would need upgrading as it is presently dark territory and at best a 25 mph speed if that. This was the route for through trains from New York to Portland and points north before WW2.



I would take two miles of restricted speed in Boston, over a 25-mile-long detour farther west, even if the detour were upgraded to passenger speeds.

Grand Junction isn't suited to be a commuter line with every-15-minutes service... but I can't see any problem with a few trains a day (either with passengers, or as deadhead moves to a servicing facility) with very minimal upgrades - say to 20mph. I've lost count of how many other cities where I've crawled through yards and industrial areas at slow speed the last few miles into a station.

I almost wonder why Portland - North Station - Springfield - NYC hasn't already been seriously considered.


----------



## Tlcooper93 (Sep 13, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> A possibly more viable option for the train you propose is to use the Pan Am Worcester Main which runs from Ayer to Worcester where it connects with the CSX line to Springfield. It would need upgrading as it is presently dark territory and at best a 25 mph speed if that. This was the route for through trains from New York to Portland and points north before WW2.


At this point, it just makes more sense to route the train into south station.

A split at Springfield with half going to BOS and half going to NYP really just makes sense.

A NYC-Montreal night train makes a lot of sense, it would connect Connecticut as well.

I really can’t stress enough that GJRR is really not appropriate for passenger service.
Upgrading from 5 to 20mph would require hundreds of millions. The whole thing would be a billion dollar endeavor with bridge replacements across the Charles. Mass Ave is hugely congested in the rush hour times to the point where the few trains per day have to stop and wait for cars because there are no crossing gates. Not the other way around.

Also, the i90 Allston interchange project is set to begin, so there’s that to consider with the Worcester line tracks,


----------

