# Superliner Baggage Cars?



## seat38a (Jul 19, 2014)

Was there ever any plans to build Superliner Baggage Cars when the Superliners were ordered? The LD trains with Superliners that I have seen have the single level baggage cars attached to the Superliners. Was there ever any plans to create a Superliners with upper level revenue seating and lower level baggage for the LD fleet similar to the CAB cars used on the corridor services?


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## Blackwolf (Jul 19, 2014)

They were not only planned, but were built. Superliner Coach-Baggage cars exist, and are rolling on the rails right now at this moment. I don't know the real reason on why they seemed to have failed as being the preferred baggage car solution for Superliner consists, but I do know a lot of them were converted into Smoking Coaches at some point.


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 19, 2014)

Some of them are in use on the PDX leg of the Empire Builder!


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## Willie1946 (Jul 19, 2014)

The Texas Eagle uses the coach baggage almost exclusively now. I suppose it turns and goes to New Orleans on the City of New Orleans as well.


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## ehbowen (Jul 19, 2014)

On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)


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## Willie1946 (Jul 19, 2014)

Many years ago, when the Capitol Corridor Trains were using Superliners, I boarded in Bakersfield. They did not offer checked baggage but they had one of these coach baggage cars on the train. We boarded through the baggage door and placed our luggage on one of the racks in the baggage compartment then up the stairs to our seats. I can't remember if i tipped myself or not. <G>

BN


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## seat38a (Jul 20, 2014)

Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.


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## battalion51 (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm not quite sure what year it was they started converting Baggage Coaches over to Smoking Coaches, but a large number had the conversion made years ago. For most Superliner trains this was the spot where smokers were allowed to light up while the train was en route (Auto Train never had these as they had their custom lounges with a smoking room). The challenge with the Smoking Coaches was the ventilation system was never done right like it was on the Auto Train lounges or Amfleet II lounges that had the penalty box. As a result the entire car reeked of cigarette smoke. As time went by this became more of an issue as the number of smokers dropped. The cars were converted back to their original purposed beginning sometime around 2005.

Part of the reasoning to bring them back to their original purpose was the number of available full baggage cars began dropping due to fleet age and lack of replacements. There was a time where baggage cars were so plentiful that you'd see more than one on a train during the mail days as some were used interchangeably with the Material Handling Cars. As the mail business went away and baggage cars went away the fleet of baggage cars got stretched. Some routes that required a full baggage car (like the east coast single level trains) obviously maintained their cars. Routes that had less volume like the Texas Eagle, City of New Orleans, and Portland section of the Empire Builder gave up their full baggage car so service could be maintained on as many trains as possible. Don't forget there was a time where trains like the Vermonter and Ethan Allen Express had baggage service, unfortunately that time has passed.


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## NW cannonball (Jul 20, 2014)

seat38a said:


> Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.


There's many Coach-Bags running on various Superliner routes.The baggage space is mostly wasted.

The one I slept in on the CS last year, for example. Zero Amtrak baggage, but I couldn't sleep in coach - (my ankle was acting up, the lounge lizards had taken over the lounge) -- but the rather dirty carpet in the AmBag was totally welcome. By morning there were at least a half-dozen coach pax sleeping on the otherwise-unused floor in the very drafty Bag part of the Coach-Bag.

I understand that there are a very few overnight trains in Japan that rent a space on the carpet. I'd buy that, at the right price, if it was on offer.


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## railiner (Jul 20, 2014)

NW cannonball said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> > Wow thanks for the info. On all the literatures on the Superliners that I have read, they left the coach baggage cars off the list.
> ...


Carpeted floors? IIRC, as originally used, the 31000-series Coach Baggage cars, had a rubber flooring material in the bag room, like in the vestibules. Perhaps these were carpeted during the conversion to lounges, and left that way when converted back? I recall these cars also had shelving that was carpeted, and could be folded away, to meet the loading requirements as needed...

In operation, I recall that on the CZ, these cars came in very handy for ski groups going to WIP, where there was no checked baggage service.


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## seat38a (Jul 21, 2014)

ehbowen said:


> On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)


I can see that happening. It really amazes me how little usable floorspace there are on the lower levels of the Superliners and Surfliner trains. Way too much of the bottom floor gets taken up by equipment room on both sides of the car.


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## MattW (Jul 21, 2014)

seat38a said:


> ehbowen said:
> 
> 
> > On our Big Family Trip to California in '06, we ran with a Superliner Coach/Baggage one way and a full baggage car the other. Having caught a glimpse of the inside through an open door at a baggage stop (El Paso?) I think the reason they are not used more often may simply be capacity. The train was not overly full, but that baggage compartment was packed to the gills. (Of course, our 20 pieces of checked luggage probably didn't help!)
> ...


I'm not so sure it's "too much," that stuff has to go somewhere. You don't notice it on the single-level trains because they have roughly 48 inches of space under the car to stash things in what is otherwise completely unused space. You only notice it on the Superliners because the lower level is noticeably shorter than the upper level. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of railcar design than I could chime in, but I believe all the plumbing, electrical and even some brake components have to fit in those two end-spaces so there isn't much "wasted" space.


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## seat38a (Jul 21, 2014)

MattW said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> > ehbowen said:
> ...


On the single level AmCan's they have unused area they can stash all the equipments?


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## seat38a (Jul 21, 2014)

Was going through my pictures from the 4th of July trip up to San Francisco and realized based on the picture above provided by Blackwolf that the CZ that we ran into in Martinez had one of those baggage coach cars.



P1000535 by seat38a, on Flickr


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## jis (Jul 21, 2014)

CZ almost always has a Coach-Baggage, possibly to accommodate skid and other gear that people carry along for camping and such up in the mountains.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Ryan (Jul 21, 2014)

seat38a said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > seat38a said:
> ...


Yes, it's all under the car. Can't do that on a Superliner (or more correctly they do, but a part of that space is set aside for passenger use).

Edit: Here's a picture where you can see all of that "stuff". On a Superliner it's inside the car body:


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## jis (Jul 21, 2014)

The lower level is shorter than the upper level in Superliners primarily because those pesky trucks on which the car rides take up room. Most of the equipment is in cabinets between the trucks and the upper level.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jul 21, 2014)

On the non-Baggage Superliner Coaches there is a small compartment on the lower level which is accessible from the outside and can be used to store a few items that are a bit too big to go in the luggage racks. I have seen the Conductors on the _*Heartland*_ _*Flyer*_ use it a time or 2.


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## railiner (Jul 22, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> On the non-Baggage Superliner Coaches there is a small compartment on the lower level which is accessible from the outside and can be used to store a few items that are a bit too big to go in the luggage racks. I have seen the Conductors on the _*Heartland*_ _*Flyer*_ use it a time or 2.


Those compartments are also handy for storing ski's....you can cram in quite a few....


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## railiner (Jul 22, 2014)

As for a shortened lower level on bilevel cars.....the exception to this are the cars used by the cruiselines on the Alaska RR. These are full double deck cars whose design was originally derived from commuter 'gallery' cars. The lower level is at standard single level car height, with the upper level above that. The passage from car to car is on the lower level. These cars however, are considerably taller overall than Superliner's, and may not fit Amtrak's clearance requirements...


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## seat38a (Jul 22, 2014)

railiner said:


> As for a shortened lower level on bilevel cars.....the exception to this are the cars used by the cruiselines on the Alaska RR. These are full double deck cars whose design was originally derived from commuter 'gallery' cars. The lower level is at standard single level car height, with the upper level above that. The passage from car to car is on the lower level. These cars however, are considerably taller overall than Superliner's, and may not fit Amtrak's clearance requirements...


I would think this type of layout would be more efficient in space. Not sure about any center of gravity issue or clearance but with all the double stacked containers these days, I would not think clearance is a problem.


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## PerRock (Jul 22, 2014)

Technically speaking the lower level of the Bombardier BiLevels are the same size as the upper levels; because both levels come together to make a shortened mid-level area above the trucks.

I'm curious now as to how the levels are laid out in the TGV Duplexs and the 2-story Shinkansens. The 2-Story SBB trains (I think DB owns some as well) are similar to the Superliners if I recall correctly. England's SR's 2-level cars were set up like Slumber coaches, with compartments staggered on top of each other.

peter


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## jis (Jul 22, 2014)

TGV Duplexes are set up like the Bombardier Multi-levels. The entry vestibule is the middle level. One climbs up or down to the main seating areas. Same is true of two story Shinkansens. both are high platform trains.


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## PerRock (Jul 22, 2014)

ah here is a diagram.






peter


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## railiner (Jul 22, 2014)

Those "duplex" designs remind me of the old, thirties era Long Island RR "double decker's"....those had a standard height vestibule at each end, and aisle connecting them, with seats grouped into alternating upper and lower open compartments, a few steps up or down from the aisle.....


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## seat38a (Jul 26, 2014)

Got to ride in one today. Here is an inside hot of the baggage area. I noticed that the cargo doors have no sealing of any kind and just let the light from the outside right through. In the winter, this could possibly be a problem on LD trains in cold parts of the country.



IMG_0867 by seat38a, on Flickr


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## NW cannonball (Jul 26, 2014)

I noticed that the cargo doors have no sealing of any kind and just let the light from the outside right through.
And the wind. Yeah, could be cold - but obviously the space isn't full of baggage, and coach pax with aching ankles would be attracted, yes,? as I posted before?

Can' tell from the photo, but looks like the plastic, not dirty carpet, floor in this car.

So - amtrak, rent the floor space -- new carpet a few hundred bucks - add-on 20 or 50 USD for an 7x3 foot space on top of coach fare -- more revenue :unsure:


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## Ispolkom (Jul 26, 2014)

NW cannonball said:


> So - amtrak, rent the floor space -- new carpet a few hundred bucks - add-on 20 or 50 USD for an 7x3 foot space on top of coach fare -- more revenue :unsure:


Or at least move the lounge lizards there.


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## NW cannonball (Jul 26, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > So - amtrak, rent the floor space -- new carpet a few hundred bucks - add-on 20 or 50 USD for an 7x3 foot space on top of coach fare -- more revenue :unsure:
> ...


Naah - let them try to sleep where they do, the dirty carpet out of the way is prize space for us who trust leaking doors and dirty carpets better than other lounge lizards and the inevitable walking paying customers and the lumpy seats (OK for sitting, bad for sleeping) in the lounge.

Naah, let the bag-coach floor-space remain for those who don't disdain to use it, or charge per square foot - whatever.


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

seat38a said:


> Got to ride in one today. Here is an inside hot of the baggage area. I noticed that the cargo doors have no sealing of any kind and just let the light from the outside right through. In the winter, this could possibly be a problem on LD trains in cold parts of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0867 by seat38a, on Flickr


Surprised to hear that....IIRC, the "plug type" doors originally did have a full rubber seal into which they were 'seated' when the door was closed, and the handle was turned to tighten them....


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## NW cannonball (Jul 26, 2014)

My latest visit to the baggage part of one of these Coach-Bags was May 2014 on the SWC ABQ-LAX - the plug doors in the baggage part of the Coach-Bag did not close tight - talked to the attendant who was down there - "just stretching, loosening up" , ( he wasn't hiding from work, did a good job, in my opinion ABQ-LAX)

There was no way the doors could seal. No way to crank them any tighter. Good for fresh air upstairs in coach. 4-6 inches leakage all around.


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## neroden (Jul 26, 2014)

Not so good. Maybe Amtrak will need to budget to renovate those doors. :-(


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2014)

The bag room (and its contents) must get a nice bath when passing thru heavy rain....

not to mention a healthy coat of dust and road grime, otherwise.....


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## seat38a (Jul 26, 2014)

railiner said:


> The bag room (and its contents) must get a nice bath when passing thru heavy rain....
> 
> not to mention a healthy coat of dust and road grime, otherwise.....


This seems to be a problem with their baggage cars as well. I have seen pictures of their baggage cars pretty much just full of snow.


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## MikefromCrete (Jul 26, 2014)

seat38a said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > The bag room (and its contents) must get a nice bath when passing thru heavy rain....
> ...



That's way Amtrak is buying new baggage cars, to get rid of the current ancient fleet and their problems. Although some people seem to think Amtrak should hang on to them.


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## seat38a (Jul 26, 2014)

There are actually some heavy duty looking luggage racks before the entrance to the bulk area. It almost looked like it could be comfortable with a pillow and some blankets 



IMG_0872 by seat38a, on Flickr


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 26, 2014)

Those luggage shelves between the entrance doors and the bottom of the stairs are standard to all the superliners I have been on, both coach and sleeper.


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## seat38a (Jul 26, 2014)

oregon pioneer said:


> Those luggage shelves between the entrance doors and the bottom of the stairs are standard to all the superliners I have been on, both coach and sleeper.


These looked hardier than the ones I remember was in the sleeper in January.


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## PerRock (Jul 26, 2014)

seat38a said:


> There are actually some heavy duty looking luggage racks before the entrance to the bulk area. It almost looked like it could be comfortable with a pillow and some blankets


Good luck finding a spot to sleep in them however; they fill up pretty quick with people's luggage. They're also right next to the door so you'll be 'bothered' at most stops.

peter


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 26, 2014)

If I called my wife useless baggage, could she sleep there?


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## seat38a (Jul 27, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> If I called my wife useless baggage, could she sleep there?


Careful, she might put you in there.


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## railiner (Jul 27, 2014)

seat38a said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > The bag room (and its contents) must get a nice bath when passing thru heavy rain....
> ...


If you're writing about the old 'Heritage' baggage cars, I agree. Those cars have a simple sliding door, that did not seal as well as the plug-type doors, I well remember opening those doors at the Denver station during the aftermath of the Mount St. Helens eruption, when the baggage, and everything else, was covered with a thick layer of volcanic ash.

We had to take time to sweep off the ash, before delivering them to detraining passengers....

And the same thing with the snow. The heritage baggage cars did not always have working heater's, (and of course, no A/C).....


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