# Deal Finally Made



## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Aug 2, 2006)

Gov. Jeb Bush is expected to announce a nearly $500 million deal today to bring commuter rail to Central Florida, capping a 20-year dream to relieve gridlock in one of the nation's most congested regions.

With funding mostly lined up and details over routes and stops just about worked out, only minor negotiations remain before construction can begin, and trains could start running between DeBary and Orlando by late 2009. An extended route into Osceola County is scheduled to be completed by 2013.

Bush is expected to announce a deal with CSX Transportation, which owns the 61 miles of track on which the commuter trains would run. The state would buy the tracks and in exchange, it would improve existing freight lines so that CSX can increase its capacity and move some of its trains away from urban areas, possibly farther from downtown Orlando.

"It will be good news for Central Florida and the rest of the state," said U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who has been working to get commuter rail in the region since 1993.

The rest can be read here .

OBS...


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## MrFSS (Aug 2, 2006)

Amtrak OBS Employee said:


> Gov. Jeb Bush is expected to announce a nearly $500 million deal today to bring commuter rail to Central Florida, capping a 20-year dream to relieve gridlock in one of the nation's most congested regions.
> With funding mostly lined up and details over routes and stops just about worked out, only minor negotiations remain before construction can begin, and trains could start running between DeBary and Orlando by late 2009. An extended route into Osceola County is scheduled to be completed by 2013.
> 
> Bush is expected to announce a deal with CSX Transportation, which owns the 61 miles of track on which the commuter trains would run. The state would buy the tracks and in exchange, it would improve existing freight lines so that CSX can increase its capacity and move some of its trains away from urban areas, possibly farther from downtown Orlando.
> ...



Maybe Jeb needs to talk over things railroad with his brother. :lol: :lol:


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## George Harris (Aug 3, 2006)

Read both newspaper articles. Here is one of the more amazing sentences: "It will be good news for Central Florida and the rest of the state,” said U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who has been working to get commuter rail in the region since 1993.

Mica? ONe of the most anti-amtrak members of congress talking in favor of rail. Or is this an impersonator. Or is it (far more likely) a way of bringing some of the federal bacon to the home district. maybe it could be the beginning of a change of mind for the guy. We can only hope.

go to www.metroplanorlando.com/site/modes/rail.asp for some more information on this system. There are some pdf reports on the right side fo the page that you get that can be opened for those interested.

George


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## AlanB (Aug 3, 2006)

MrFSS said:


> Maybe Jeb needs to talk over things railroad with his brother. :lol: :lol:


Up until this point Jeb has been as anti-rail as his brother has. Jeb has killed two previous initiatives to get pax rail into Florida. Granted those initiatives were somewhat controversial and expensive, but one of them was an actual amendment to the State's constitution. Jeb moved heaven and earth to suppress the will of his constituents and get that amendment undone. He even resorted to spending State money to scare senior citizens into believing that they would loose their benefits if they didn't vote for repealing the amendment.

So this turnabout is almost as surprising as Mica’s. I’m sure that the fact that the bulk of the monies for this project are coming from places other than the state’s budget, has a lot to do with why they are both supporting it.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Aug 3, 2006)

Well for what it's worth (in little defense to Mica), he has been pushing this commuter rail agenda for a looong time. When I met with him personally a couple of years ago, he was very excited because things were progressing so well with this initiative. So I took that chance to speak to him on my feelings of Amtrak. He pretty much gave me the run of the mill answer regarding his feelings about that. I responded by telling him I just don't agree with the fact he can substantiate such support for commuter rail, but nothing at all regarding Amtrak's place in the equation. I know for a fact he (Mica) is a supporter of the Auto Train service, and I reminded him that was an Amtrak provided service! His reply to that one was kinda of vague, but none the less I was able to premise his stance with the issue regarding Amtrak as whole! So Mica may be a supporter of commuter rail (and that is not necessarily a bad thing), but he is still anti-Amtrak! But I can say only to a point. He seems to feel it (Amtrak) can be managed more efficiently. That I can agree with, but not tearing Amtrak apart to a point it can't exist. What would be so funny is if Amtrak was one of the winning bidders to operate (provide T&E crews) the new service!!! :lol: But I seriously doubt that will be the case.

As far as where I stand with the opinion of Gov Jeb Bush, I get a slightly different feeling regarding his stand with passenger rail. I met him the one time and only had a few moments to speak to him, but here's what I got from him. He seems to show a slight (and the key word is slight) support for passenger rail in utilizing existing infrastructure with upgrades for the freights, etc. However, this simply illustrates the big business approach to the matter. He (J Bush) was a little less critical of Amtrak (at least that is how he came across), but he still isn't a big supporter of it at all. He is stuck in that mindset that his brother is in of how Amtrak can be "reformed!" But I didn't get the feeling he wants it to go away. I would like to know what his thoughts are at this time being train service no longer serves the state's capital city!

AlanB, in all honesty I am kinda glad that bullet train proposal was removed from the state constitution. That just simply doesn't belong there, and it would have been a BIG BIG boondogle regarding the requirements it laid out in such short notice! Neither does that stupid constitutional ammendment telling a business owner they can't designate a smoking section (and I am a non-smoker) in their establishment. Also the ammendment about the swine breeding crates. That was just stupid! A pig now has protection in the Florida State Constitution in its own little section! Yep it makes a lot of sense to group the protection of our people (from children all the way to the elderly) into the constitution as a whole, but to specify some certain protection for a baby pig in its own ammendment of the state's constitution? I always have thought we raised hogs for food or breeding to sell for food! That particular issue could have simply been addressed at the local level with a simple ordinance forbidding the practice in question at that time! There are more proper avenues to address issues such as these, but not a ballot intiative to add something like these to the state's constitution.

But back to railroading...Don't get me wrong as I am a railroad man who is an avid supporter of high speed rail, but why is it necessary to have a "law" that a bullet train should be built? Sure we need a bullet train here in Florida! But to have a "law" mandatating its contruction? That's just stupid! We also need an adequate rail infrastructure, too. Amtrak could operate so well if that were in place. That is one thing I absolutely love about your neck of the woods (NYC) and LAX! I know and realize my taxes may have to rise some to fund these projects, and I am all for it! It may be just a simple case of "election year politics" but it is about time we get our version of "Tri-Rail" in Central Florida. And hopefully someone such as Amtrak will continue to provide long distance services within the state and those be upgraded, more reliable, etc. OBS...


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## George Harris (Aug 4, 2006)

Yes, a constitutional provision did seem rather strange. Sounds like Florida has a relatively easy to amend state constitution. Some are and some aren't. In may college political science class on state governments, Louisiana was held up at the worst example as of that time (1967). It took over 3,000 typewritten pages to print the whole Louisiana state constitution, IIRC. Tennessee's was at the other end of the scale. It's 1890 (or therabouts) constitution had had less than 10 ammendments, again IIRC about something learned near 40 years ago.

It seems the thought is, if you have an easy to amend constitution, lets don't just make it a law of the state, let's make it part of the constitution.

George


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## battalion51 (Aug 4, 2006)

I'm just hoping those boys are hiring when I need them to be. :lol:


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## jphjaxfl (Aug 5, 2006)

Bush and Mica know this is an election year and they know the Repulicans could be in trouble here in Florida so suddenly they have become rail advocates. They are hoping to use the announcement of long needed commuter rail for Orlando for political gains. They should have been supporting commuter rail, better Amtrak service and high speed rail in Florida to help us deal with congested highways and airports. California has supported Amtrak and started commuter rail services in Los Angeles and San Diego. Florida should have copied what California has already done, years ago.


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## sechs (Aug 5, 2006)

Obviously, they'll fool some of the people, but how many are they going to lose by being flip-floppers?


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 18, 2006)

As far as I can tell, Mica has been and remains (like Nelson) a rabid pit-bull on the subject of Amtrak but seems to have (strangely) been pro commuter rail for quite a while, and sees no contradiction in those positions. What DOESN'T compute, though, is the fact that, (even putting aside the convenience, the efficiency of the mode of travel, the diversification of modes, which is a good thing, and the fact that it reduces highway gridlock,) there has been close to a MILLION folks getting on or off Amtrak trains, IN FLORIDA, EVERY YEAR for the past few years, which is a HUGE financial bozanza for the State (tourism $$$), but for some reason neither Nelson nor Mica seem to connect with the fact that if they murder Amtrak it will iikely kill most of those dollars permanently. Go figure. The lights may be on, but I don't think anybody's home.........


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## frj1983 (Aug 22, 2006)

AmtrakWPK said:


> As far as I can tell, Mica has been and remains (like Nelson) a rabid pit-bull on the subject of Amtrak but seems to have (strangely) been pro commuter rail for quite a while, and sees no contradiction in those positions. What DOESN'T compute, though, is the fact that, (even putting aside the convenience, the efficiency of the mode of travel, the diversification of modes, which is a good thing, and the fact that it reduces highway gridlock,) there has been close to a MILLION folks getting on or off Amtrak trains, IN FLORIDA, EVERY YEAR for the past few years, which is a HUGE financial bozanza for the State (tourism $$$), but for some reason neither Nelson nor Mica seem to connect with the fact that if they murder Amtrak it will iikely kill most of those dollars permanently. Go figure. The lights may be on, but I don't think anybody's home.........


Oh don't worry AmtrakWPK,

Nelson and Mica will just push another "Federal Grant" or give-away to the Airlines(every bit of sarcasm intended) and then all those people will just "fly," right?


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## rmgreenesq (Aug 24, 2006)

George Harris said:


> Yes, a constitutional provision did seem rather strange. Sounds like Florida has a relatively easy to amend state constitution. Some are and some aren't. In may college political science class on state governments, Louisiana was held up at the worst example as of that time (1967). It took over 3,000 typewritten pages to print the whole Louisiana state constitution, IIRC. Tennessee's was at the other end of the scale. It's 1890 (or therabouts) constitution had had less than 10 ammendments, again IIRC about something learned near 40 years ago.
> It seems the thought is, if you have an easy to amend constitution, lets don't just make it a law of the state, let's make it part of the constitution.
> 
> George


Some states, in an effort to foster "direct democracy", created an initiative or ballot question process to change the state constitution. The people who dreamed up this idea thought that the people would use it as a means on imposing their will on a recalcatrent (sic?) legislature or state supreme court run amuck, and would use it for issues that acutally required an amendment to the constitution like gay marriage, term limits, etc.

Crafty lobbyists and lawyers (yea team!) have used this process as another means to forward their agenda and pass what should be plain, ordinary, statues and amendments to existing state statutes in the form of a constitutional amendment. IMHO, this practice cheapens the constitution and our way of governance.

One of the beautiful things about the American form of goverment is the relative simplicity and brevity of the US constitution. While some state constitutions take volumes, the US constitution (with amendments) can be read aloud in under 20 minutes.

Ok, I'll get back to railroading now.....

Rick


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## frj1983 (Aug 24, 2006)

rmgreenesq said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, a constitutional provision did seem rather strange. Sounds like Florida has a relatively easy to amend state constitution. Some are and some aren't. In may college political science class on state governments, Louisiana was held up at the worst example as of that time (1967). It took over 3,000 typewritten pages to print the whole Louisiana state constitution, IIRC. Tennessee's was at the other end of the scale. It's 1890 (or therabouts) constitution had had less than 10 ammendments, again IIRC about something learned near 40 years ago.
> ...



20 Minutes,

Wow, I never thought of it that way! But as with everything human, we usually start with something small and then keep adding to it until it's unrecognizable or too unwieldy to work!


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## George Harris (Aug 25, 2006)

Both the US Constitution, and to an even greater extent the Tennessee State Constitution were deliberately set up to be relatively hard to amend on the theory, which i agree with completely, that anything important enough to need to be in the constitution will have enough popular support that it will not go away in a short time period and will be able to overcome fairly high hurdles. I will not get into my opinion on judges that seem to think they have a right to twist words and rewrite their meaning.

George


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