# Hurricane Gustav



## Guest (Aug 27, 2008)

I see where the Louisiana Governor has thought out his New Orleans evacuation plan since Hurricane Gustav has entered the Gulf of Mexico and it may be implemented any day now.

For the 2 betters, had8ley & Whoozie on here (and NativeSon):

What are the odds that finer minds WILL prevail and Amtrak WILL be considered a viable evacuation tool?

had8ley: Have you called (you're a good haranger) his office and told him how Amtrak was ignored during Katrina and it cost lives and that, by grannie, you want Amtrak included or you're going to ship his soul back to India? ...and BTW, how about making it possible to evacuate us swamp dwellers eastwards towards Jacksonville (emergency re-activation of the Sunset).It can be done.. and that Amtrak is as fast (or faster) as the National Guard, costs less, is already in place and has workers who can survive anything AND are already vaccinated...and that the expensive Guard may be serving elsewhere and that hoggers are the cowboys of the railroad. The trains can withstand winds better than helicopters lifting people off of roofs or greyhound.On this latter point, I don't think most people understand the thickness of the skin of the railroad workers. One of the conductors referred to the Klan of 2 states eastwards as good ole boys (no joke).

If you don't live in the affected areas, now would be a good time to make this point to your representatives as you don't want to watch the horror of people drowning when Amtrak could have gotten them out of there the last time.

..just some talking points.


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## Walt (Aug 27, 2008)

I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.

Also, I thought Amtrak did send trainsets to the New Orleans area, but no one got onboard??


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2008)

Walt said:


> I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.
> Also, I thought Amtrak did send trainsets to the New Orleans area, but no one got onboard??


Amtrak intially offered to transport people out of NOL prior to the hurricane's arrival on the equipment that Amtrak was evacuating from the city. That offer was refused, or at least never utilized.

Then after the flooding occured and the horror stories started flowing from the arena, an arena litterally just around the corner from the Amtrak station, Amtrak once again sent equipment into the general area awaiting the call to come help take those thousands of people out of the arena. They did eventually send it two or three trains and IIRC took out maybe a thousand people or so.

But they stood by during most of the bus evacuation process, even though the State was having trouble getting buses to do the evacuation. The failure to fill up the Amtrak trains and to run them more frequently wasn't Amtrak's and it wasn't the people trapped in the dome. The failure occured at the government level, with those charged with doing the rescue.


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## wayman (Aug 27, 2008)

An NPR story this afternoon mentioned 700 buses plus Amtrak as the evacuation equipment on hand. I hope they actually take advantage of their resources this time....


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## wayman (Aug 28, 2008)

wayman said:


> An NPR story this afternoon mentioned 700 buses plus Amtrak as the evacuation equipment on hand. I hope they actually take advantage of their resources this time....


Looks like they are:



> In New Orleans, Jerry Sneed, the city's director of homeland security and emergency preparedness, said it remained undecided Wednesday whether City Hall would enact its evacuation program. Designed to be put in place before a storm of Category 3 strength or higher, it could be triggered by a slow-moving Category 2.
> Under the plan, residents who need help getting out of town would gather at 17 sites, where they would be picked up by Regional Transit Authority buses and taken to the Union Passenger Terminal. From there, they would board state-chartered buses bound for shelters in Shreveport, Monroe and Alexandria, or Amtrak trains, which could carry as many as 7,242 people to Jackson, Miss.
> 
> Sneed urged residents who cannot get to the loading sites on their own to register for a program that will pick them up at their homes. To sign up for New Orleans' city-assisted evacuation plan, residents should call 311, 877.286.6431 or 800.981.6652.


(Source: NOLA.com)

The reading is a bit ambiguous, but I think they're saying "7,242 people by Amtrak alone"?! Elsewhere, I've seen the numbers "700 buses" and "30,000 people by bus" (which would equate to 42 people per bus, a bit low but plausible), which backs up the reading for Amtrak. At 80 passengers per coach, that's 90 coaches. Does Amtrak have that many cars at the ready in New Orleans?


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## Rail Freak (Aug 28, 2008)

Hope they evacuate to the West, Hanah's threat is coming from the east.

That East Corridor of the Sunset sure would be handy in the summer of 2008!!!!!


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## Montanan (Aug 28, 2008)

wayman said:


> The reading is a bit ambiguous, but I think they're saying "7,242 people by Amtrak alone"?! Elsewhere, I've seen the numbers "700 buses" and "30,000 people by bus" (which would equate to 42 people per bus, a bit low but plausible), which backs up the reading for Amtrak. At 80 passengers per coach, that's 90 coaches. Does Amtrak have that many cars at the ready in New Orleans?


I'm sure they're thinking of making multiple trips. If it happens with some planning, it shouldn't be too hard for them to do, say three round trips to Jackson a day, for a couple of days prior to the arrival of the storm.


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## gswager (Aug 28, 2008)

I thought there is a floodgate over the railroad track somewhere in New Orleans. Once the floodgate is down, railroad is shut down, even few days in advance.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 28, 2008)

The NBC Nightly News showed footage of a P42 pulling into NOL as they discussed the evacuation trains. It was hard to tell if this was "B-Roll" (much like how they like to show American Airlines DC-10s and other 10+ year old liveries when doing a story on airlines) or perhaps one of the regular trains such as the *City*. Has anyone actually seen what is on hand at NOL as of now?


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## Mit (Aug 28, 2008)

Amtrak's go team is in NO now to move and stage equipment in and out of the area with equipment not in the evaluation plan to be stored in Jackson. Memphis was the first choice but the sink whole ruled that option out.

Mit



AlanB said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> > I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.
> ...


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## had8ley (Aug 28, 2008)

Well...unless there is a mile long train shed that Google earth hasn't picked up yet I have no idea where the cars are coming from to save New Orleans. Just last week I posted how destitute the tracks at NOUPT looked with no trains. The last Amfleet I's left some time ago among a clatter of flat spots and square wheels. I do HOPE that Amtrak has learned its lesson well. Before Katrina hit they truncated #2 in San Antonio then deadheaded the train to Avondale which is on the west side of the Mississippi river at the base of the Huey P. Long bridge. There was a big fanfare that every one who boarded was going to Houston. Well, the train stopped in Lafayette, LA (about 150 miles west of New Orleans) and every one was ordered off the train. There were buses waiting to take the 195 people who boarded the train to Little Rock, Arkansas. They're still finger pointing as to whose dynamic dream that was. Sorry folks; I would only volunteer to man the controls if I had it in stone as to where my destination would be and it would have to serve as a better rescue mission for more souls.


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## had8ley (Aug 28, 2008)

gswager said:


> I thought there is a floodgate over the railroad track somewhere in New Orleans. Once the floodgate is down, railroad is shut down, even few days in advance.


It's called the 17th Street canal and everything freight train wise that runs east and west of NOL has to crosss it EXCEPT Amtrak. They turn west towards the Huey Long bridge before they get to it and the Crescent turns east within sight of it.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Well...unless there is a mile long train shed that Google earth hasn't picked up yet I have no idea where the cars are coming from to save New Orleans. Just last week I posted how destitute the tracks at NOUPT looked with no trains. The last Amfleet I's left some time ago among a clatter of flat spots and square wheels. I do HOPE that Amtrak has learned its lesson well. Before Katrina hit they truncated #2 in San Antonio then deadheaded the train to Avondale which is on the west side of the Mississippi river at the base of the Huey P. Long bridge. There was a big fanfare that every one who boarded was going to Houston. Well, the train stopped in Lafayette, LA (about 150 miles west of New Orleans) and every one was ordered off the train. There were buses waiting to take the 195 people who boarded the train to Little Rock, Arkansas. They're still finger pointing as to whose dynamic dream that was. Sorry folks; I would only volunteer to man the controls if I had it in stone as to where my destination would be and it would have to serve as a better rescue mission for more souls.


There are approx 15 or so of the Bud SPV 2000's in place at NOL. They are complete with the red stripe for the Conneticut Dept of Transportation. I had actually thought that all of these had either been scrapped, or rebuilt into Amtrak's fleet...but they are there and have been for awhile. Now to see if they will actually get used....???


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## had8ley (Aug 28, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Walt said:
> 
> 
> > I thought there were many underutilized evacuation methods for Katrina. It was just that the people themselves didn't want to leave. It wasn't because there wasn't means for them to leave.
> ...


I believe they doubled the Crescent to the City and drug the cars to Jackson, MS with little notice to anyone.


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## had8ley (Aug 28, 2008)

Guest said:


> I see where the Louisiana Governor has thought out his New Orleans evacuation plan since Hurricane Gustav has entered the Gulf of Mexico and it may be implemented any day now.
> For the 2 betters, had8ley & Whoozie on here (and NativeSon):
> 
> What are the odds that finer minds WILL prevail and Amtrak WILL be considered a viable evacuation tool?
> ...


Gee thanks for the compliment. I was beginning to think no one noticed my tirades...when you mentioned shipping our governor back to India it dawned on me the way the Indians in India travel. They hang on to anything that will support them until they reach their destination. I know you've seen the pictures of the packed trains and read the horror stories of hundred killed when they have head-ons in the middle of the night. Now, back to business; Jindal is no fool. He turned down the VP slot to make Louisiana what it needs to be and rid as much corruption as possible. I honestly think one week of his leadership has shown more results than our ex-governor's entire term (sorry, Betty.) Let's give him a chance; I am getting tower reports of extra pax train movements so let's see what materializes. IF the storm does hit New Orleans I think Amtrak will play a much different role than it did three years ago. All I hope for is that they don't use UPT for the parish prison. I was one of the 29 souls on the first #59 who had to walk around the razor wire and the entire station just to get to the Loyola Avenue.


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## had8ley (Aug 28, 2008)

I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?


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## AlanB (Aug 28, 2008)

had8ley said:


> I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?


Rafi doesn't just cover the rails, he covers other things too. Right now that happens to be the democratic convention.


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## had8ley (Aug 29, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > I thought we had a rail reporter on this site. Sure would be nice if he would be kind enough to give us some kind of update or maybe he hasn't noticed what's coming sitting behind a computer somewhere?
> ...


Sounds good to me. Just hope we get a president who backs up Amtrak and doesn't want to scrap it like so many before.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2008)

had8ley

Are you boarded up?

Don't most evac (on I90) in the opposite direction of the brunt and not necessarily further inland?

My relatives, during Katrina, were headed north (they thought Michigan ought to do it) and seeing the emergency relief, supply, portable buildings & utility trucks already in progress from Atlanta towards staging, I told them to come east before the masses figured out that Atlanta was in the best spot to handle them.

This would be such a fine time to have the Sunset Limited East (renaming it the Sunrise ^_^ ) back and running.


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## had8ley (Aug 29, 2008)

Guest said:


> had8leyAre you boarded up?
> 
> Don't most evac (on I90) in the opposite direction of the brunt and not necessarily further inland?
> 
> ...


Believe it or not we received 80 mph winds during Katrina but suffered no damage. We had 42 people in our home at one time! Amex loved me when I went grocery shopping. Believe it or not the people north of LA. Highway 190 suffered greater damage than most places further south. My old conductor lives in Folsom, LA which is about 50 miles north and east of Baton Rouge and lost 37 of 67 pecan trees. We are not boarded up yet but do have an 18 KW generator and a 1,000 gallon propane tank to fuel it. By the time this one's over we might be lucky to see any Sunset for some time.

BTW, the SPV's came into NOL on the Crescent; understand they had been sitting in a yard in CT


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## profwebs (Aug 29, 2008)

Just found this:



> From the 17 sites, state-chartered motor coaches and Amtrak trains would take residents to shelters in north Louisiana and Tennessee.


Read the article atAmtrack part of evac plans


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## haolerider (Aug 29, 2008)

profwebs said:


> Just found this:
> 
> 
> > From the 17 sites, state-chartered motor coaches and Amtrak trains would take residents to shelters in north Louisiana and Tennessee.
> ...


Does anyone know how these evacuated people get back to New Orleans if they are taken to shelters?


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## had8ley (Aug 29, 2008)

haolerider said:


> profwebs said:
> 
> 
> > Just found this:
> ...


Great question~ those who could afford it went back on their own. Others (mainly ninth ward residents) are scattered all over the country. Some want to come home badly but cannot afford to re-build.


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## VentureForth (Aug 29, 2008)

*Service Alert: Tropical Storm Gustav Service Disruption: **Crescent**, **City of New Orleans**, **Sunset Limited** Affected*

August 29, 2008

11:30 a.m. CDT

The approach of severe weather and a declaration of an emergency have prompted Amtrak to temporarily suspend service to and from New Orleans for the safety of passengers, employees and equipment.

Amtrak train equipment currently in New Orleans will be made available to federal and state authorities to assist in the evacuation of the city and to help maximize capacity for the evacuation. Amtrak is taking this action as a national transportation asset in accordance with its contract with the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA), which is preparing for the evacuation of New Orleans.

Effective immediately and through at least September 4, the following services are suspended:

*Crescent*, Trains 19 & 20

Service is suspended south of Atlanta, including Birmingham, Ala. No alternate transportation is available.

*City of New Orleans*, Trains 58 & 59

Service is suspended south of Memphis, including Jackson, Miss. No alternate transportation is available.

*Sunset Limited*, Trains 1 & 2

Service is suspended east of San Antonio, including Houston. No alternate transportation is available.

All passengers who have travel plans through the affected areas on routes of the New York-Atlanta-New Orleans Amtrak Crescent; Chicago-Memphis-New Orleans Amtrak City of New Orleans and the Los Angeles-San Antonio-New Orleans route of the Amtrak Sunset Limited are urged to call Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL.

Those passengers with telephone contact information in their reservations are being called by Amtrak and offered options including future travel dates. Ticketed passengers affected by this service suspension will be eligible for refunds.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## VentureForth (Aug 29, 2008)

That's really gonna hurt numbers. No revenue for one full week, yet still paying staff to standby. I guess FEMA will give them some money for being there.


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## haolerider (Aug 29, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> That's really gonna hurt numbers. No revenue for one full week, yet still paying staff to standby. I guess FEMA will give them some money for being there.


Once the decision is made, the trains belong to FEMA and I would assume Amtrak will be compensated for all expenses and lost revenue.


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## profwebs (Aug 29, 2008)

Wow! I hope Hanna doesn't decide to head for the Carolina's! That could mess with my trip on #98 on Sept. 8th..


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## Rail Freak (Aug 29, 2008)

profwebs said:


> Wow! I hope Hanna doesn't decide to head for the Carolina's! That could mess with my trip on #98 on Sept. 8th..


Know whatcha mean, Leaving Monday(98)!

(didn't use to bother me that much when I was a litle younger)


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## Rail Freak (Aug 29, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > had8leyAre you boarded up?
> ...


SPV ???


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## profwebs (Aug 29, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> profwebs said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! I hope Hanna doesn't decide to head for the Carolina's! That could mess with my trip on #98 on Sept. 8th..
> ...



Labor day? or the Monday after?


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## Crescent Mark (Aug 30, 2008)

had8ley said:


> BTW, the SPV's came into NOL on the Crescent; understand they had been sitting in a yard in CT


Any idea when this was? And any info on how they came? Was it in 1 trip, 2 trips or what? It seems that'd pretty much double the length of the Crescent if you threw those on there. Any pictures?

Thanks!


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## Crescent Mark (Aug 30, 2008)

Also - Amtrak.com says this. It looks like the Crescent is stopping in Atlanta for the time being. I'll go try and get some pictures.

*Service Alert: Hurricane Gustav: City of New Orleans, Crescent, Sunset Limited Service Affected*

August 29, 2008

7:00 pm CDT

The approach of severe weather and a declaration of an emergency have prompted Amtrak to temporarily suspend service to and from New Orleans for the safety of passengers, employees and equipment.

Amtrak train equipment currently in New Orleans will be made available to federal and state authorities to assist in the evacuation of the city and to help maximize capacity for the evacuation. Amtrak is taking this action as a national transportation asset in accordance with its contract with the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA), which is preparing for the evacuation of New Orleans.

All passengers who have travel plans through the affected areas on routes of the New York-Atlanta-New Orleans Amtrak Crescent; Chicago-Memphis-New Orleans Amtrak City of New Orleans and the Los Angeles-San Antonio-New Orleans route of the Amtrak Sunset Limited are urged to call Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL.

Those passengers with telephone contact information in their reservations are being called by Amtrak and offered options including future travel dates. Ticketed passengers affected by this service suspension will be eligible for refunds.

City of New Orleans, Trains 58 & 59

Service is suspended for the length of the route, through September 1. Alternate transportation will be provided between Chicago and Carbondale by Trains 390, 391, 392 & 393.

Crescent , Trains 19 & 20

Service is suspended south of Atlanta, including Birmingham, Ala., through at least September 4. No alternate transportation is available.

Sunset Limited , Trains 1 & 2

Service is suspended east of San Antonio, through at least September 4. No alternate transportation is available. Amtrak Thruway Motorcoaches continue to operate from Longview to Houston and other points in Texas.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 30, 2008)

I am guessing the evacuation trains will be bare bones basics. Stuff a butt in EVERY seat, minimal baggage allowance and no lounge or food service. I also imagine with FEMA running the show, these trains will get top priority over any freight.


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## profwebs (Aug 30, 2008)

> Also, the city arranged with Amtrak for more than 7,000 seats to evacuate the elderly by train, said Jerry Sneed, of City Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.


 That's one long train :lol: Full article here.


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## rtabern (Aug 30, 2008)

I just hope Congress remembers Amtrak helping people evacuate when it comes time for them to consider the funding it gets for FY2009!!

Ahem!


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## Crescent Mark (Aug 30, 2008)

I missed the actual coverage but CNN is covering Gustav of course. There's a press conference w/Nagin right now that's on, but CNN just said "and there you see Ray Nagin reporting on the situation in New Orleans. And just a while ago, we saw live footage of one of the first Amtrak trains to leave the city, packed with fleeing residents". Nice! Looks like Amtrak is playing a bigger role this time.

Anyone have any idea what the plan is for Amtrak? Is it haul the 15 coaches to Jackson and drop them off, or haul them to Atlanta, or what? I'd like to see if someone can get out and shoot some pics....


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

rtabern said:


> I just hope Congress remembers Amtrak helping people evacuate when it comes time for them to consider the funding it gets for FY2009!!
> Ahem!


They will if you remember to remind them!!!


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## Crescent Mark (Aug 30, 2008)

Updates from Railroad.net forums:

-_They are just going to use the equipment that Connecticut has provided, a Sunset Limited train set that is in New Orleans and a City of New Orleans train set that is in New Orleans. I don't believe there is a Crescent train set they plan to use. Amtrak didn't provide Amfleets that had been in storage for this year's contract, rather somehow Connecticut got invlved with providing the Constitution Liners (ex-SPV 2000 cars). Who has the contract and who gets the fund and what triggers payment on the contract is also a mystery to me._

_-Just read over on the IlliniRail yahoo list that five P42s were sent down on a CONO the other day. "59(27) departed with 5 motors and 7 cars..."_

_-There are reports on the local news where the trains may be operated into TN. _

_The Senior Citizens and the Citizens with Special Needs are to be loaded unto the Amtrak provided Equipment at New Orleans Union Terminal. Mayor Negan said that Amtrak will be taking these folks to Memphis. People began arriving this morning at 8AM. _


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## sky12065 (Aug 30, 2008)

Guest said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > I just hope Congress remembers Amtrak helping people evacuate when it comes time for them to consider the funding it gets for FY2009!!Ahem!
> ...


Bookmark the following web addresses so you can easily find your law makers and send them messages when the time is right:

Congresspersons: https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml

Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_info...enators_cfm.cfm

Perhaps someone can tell us when the right time would be?


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## had8ley (Aug 30, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Guest said:
> ...


SPV= Self Propelled Vehicle; similar to the Budd RDC (Rail Diesel Cars of old. I understand they came in on one train but did not personally confirm that. With two locos it should not have been too much to handle. Only problem I can see is they probably had to cut them off before they headed into the wye at NOUPT and go back later to retrive them. The top end of the wye won't hold over 15 or 16 car lengths the last time I was on an engine and backed in If anyone wants info on the trains that FEMA are running the phone number to call is 504-658-2299.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

This yahoo story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_...stav_gulf_coast

says that there is a line at the UP terminal for buses (correct me if wrong). Worrisome is that the illegal migrant workers are afraid of using any of the transportation for fear of deportation.

I saw a pre-evac planning program being implemented for St. Bernard parish where individuals were issued scannable wrist bands and before entering the bus they were getting scanned.

What's up with the trains?


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## Rail Freak (Aug 30, 2008)

profwebs said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > profwebs said:
> ...


Labor Day!

I'll run interference for ya!


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## profwebs (Aug 30, 2008)

sky12065 said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > rtabern said:
> ...



There is a sample letter on NARP that you can use as the basis of your letter. I recommend changing it up a bit though because I have heard that many of these get disregarded when our reps(or their aids) see the same 1 over and over again. As for timing, I'd say anytime, although its helpful if the person reading the letters see quite a few. This says "hey this is an issue my constituents care about". If the aid is reading them(most likely), the more that are received, the more chances the the Congress person will actually look into the issue.

Just my $.02


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

From Ray Nagin's House testimony on 11 Feb 08 this year and the relevance of Amtrak to N'Orleans's future disasters.

http://www.cityofno.com/pg-1-66-press-rele...px?pressid=3963

_After Hurricane Katrina, my Office of Homeland Security developed the City Assisted Evacuation Plan (CAEP), with a major component centered on rail service and the Union Passenger Terminal. Our strategy is to use the rail assets to move our elderly and those with minor medical conditions from the City. While there are many reasons for taking this approach, one of the most important is that rail cars provide a much higher level of comfort than bus transportation. If we are able to provide these vulnerable citizens with a more comfortable and reliable means of evacuation, we will increase their willingness to leave._


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

Not entirely what is being listened to but sounds like the New Orleans area Amtrak :

http://www.railroadradio.net/content/view/18/151/


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

Amtrak has at least two trains to Memphis from NOL today...one before noon, the other around 4 this afternoon:

Memphis Commercial Appeal (newspaper) article

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/...acuees-memphis/


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## profwebs (Aug 30, 2008)

> Labor Day!I'll run interference for ya!


I was hopin it was the 8th, be cool to meet someone from here...


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

had8ley

Can you take a 15 storm surge?

http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/la/article...for_gustav.html

AARP Bulletin:

_A Louisiana State University scientist working with state emergency preparedness officials warned late Friday that Gustav could push as much as 15 feet of storm surge onto a wide stretch of the state's coastline west of New Orleans.._


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## MattW (Aug 30, 2008)

They've already stopped the Crescent at Atlanta. I saw it stopped on the spur to an old steel plant (I think) next to the station this afternoon.

Why do they stop in Atlanta? Why not Birmingham which won't be majorly affected, or Tuscaloosa where they could do an immediate about face, and not have to "stop" at all?


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## Montanan (Aug 30, 2008)

According to postings on the "City of New Orleans Train" Yahoo Group, two FEMA trains left New Orleans for Memphis today. FEMA 1 had 16 Superliner cars and 4 single-level coaches, while FEMA 2 was expected to consist entirely of single-level equipment. Most of the single-level cars are coaches kept in N.O. for an emergency such as this, though some Crescent equipment may be used as well.

It's not known if additional trips will be made later this weekend, but it's considered a definite possibility.


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## Crescent Mark (Aug 30, 2008)

MattW said:


> They've already stopped the Crescent at Atlanta. I saw it stopped on the spur to an old steel plant (I think) next to the station this afternoon.Why do they stop in Atlanta? Why not Birmingham which won't be majorly affected, or Tuscaloosa where they could do an immediate about face, and not have to "stop" at all?


Birmingham station:

http://flickr.com/photos/ckphotoz/2231985841/

Looks like there's some room to park there.

How could they do an immediate about face in Tuscaloosa? Is there a "wye" there?

http://flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/963721611/ Tuscaloosa station

Looks like there's possibly room there too. Can't be hard to find a siding around town that could be used...?


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## MattW (Aug 30, 2008)

They could run the locomotives around the train couldn't they? They'd have to place them back to back in New York isntead of elephant style like they do now, and it'd mean running the sleepers and baggage car in the very back, but why not?


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## Montanan (Aug 30, 2008)

I suspect the reasons those turnaround points were chosen were at least partly economic. Maybe Amtrak figured that the number of passenger boardings at Birmingham alone wasn't high enough to justify continuing the train past Atlanta.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

What did they do with the New Orleans crew base?


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## Rail Freak (Aug 30, 2008)

Montanan said:


> According to postings on the "City of New Orleans Train" Yahoo Group, two FEMA trains left New Orleans for Memphis today. FEMA 1 had 16 Superliner cars and 4 single-level coaches, while FEMA 2 was expected to consist entirely of single-level equipment. Most of the single-level cars are coaches kept in N.O. for an emergency such as this, though some Crescent equipment may be used as well.
> It's not known if additional trips will be made later this weekend, but it's considered a definite possibility.


Go Amtrak!

Yeah!

Good Job NOL & Good Luck!!!


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## had8ley (Aug 30, 2008)

Crescent Mark said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > They've already stopped the Crescent at Atlanta. I saw it stopped on the spur to an old steel plant (I think) next to the station this afternoon.Why do they stop in Atlanta? Why not Birmingham which won't be majorly affected, or Tuscaloosa where they could do an immediate about face, and not have to "stop" at all?
> ...


First of all Birmingham is NOT a crew base. (Atlanta to Meridian, MS with a second engineer is the regular run.)It is a dingy station that does load a few numbers. There are no real facilities to service the train. Atlanta, last time I rode, had a carman who does the 1,000 mile brake test and changes an occasional brake shoe. As small as it is Atlanta is more prepared to accommodate a truncation. Also. Amtrak has to figure that this might be a Katrina style truncation where it may be months before trains are able to run into NOL (not to be confused with the stonewalling of the Sunset.) Tuscaloosa might work but the mileage run from Atlanta would hardly justify the handful of pax who board at Anniston, Birmingham and Tuscaloosa.


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## wayman (Aug 30, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> > According to postings on the "City of New Orleans Train" Yahoo Group, two FEMA trains left New Orleans for Memphis today. FEMA 1 had 16 Superliner cars and 4 single-level coaches, while FEMA 2 was expected to consist entirely of single-level equipment. Most of the single-level cars are coaches kept in N.O. for an emergency such as this, though some Crescent equipment may be used as well.
> ...


An NPR report from about an hour ago had a reporter at NOUPT saying it was packed, that trains were being efficiently loaded and departing according to the evacuation plan schedule, and that everything was proceeding like clockwork. EMTs are on board the trains to care for any medical needs. Trains are all going to Memphis (as has already been noted here).

YAY!

One question--are the SPVs self-propelling themselves to Memphis, or are they functioning as coaches and being pulled by P42s (or other diesels)?

Oh, and a second question--are these trains running non-stop (not even a crew change) straight from NOL to Memphis, with top priority and everything short of spiked switches? What's the top running speed for that track, and what's the shortest possible running time? How much faster is it than the CONL?


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## had8ley (Aug 30, 2008)

Guest said:


> had8ley
> Can you take a 15 storm surge?
> 
> http://bulletin.aarp.org/states/la/article...for_gustav.html
> ...


I sure hope so... we are about 30 miles north west of Lake Maurepas which is connected to Lake Pontchatrain. Any turbulance from either will send the Tickfaw River headed our way. We are .6 miles from the Tickfaw but in non-flood area for the time being...


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## AlanB (Aug 30, 2008)

Montanan said:


> According to postings on the "City of New Orleans Train" Yahoo Group, two FEMA trains left New Orleans for Memphis today. FEMA 1 had 16 Superliner cars and 4 single-level coaches, while FEMA 2 was expected to consist entirely of single-level equipment. Most of the single-level cars are coaches kept in N.O. for an emergency such as this, though some Crescent equipment may be used as well.
> It's not known if additional trips will be made later this weekend, but it's considered a definite possibility.


The posters on that Yahoo group are wrong. Amtrak had kept 24 single level Amfleet I cars in the NOL area for over two years after Katrina. However, those cars were removed from the NOL area shortly after last year's hurricane season was over. All 24 cars were shuttled back to Bear yard in Delaware and a few of them even now are finally getting the needed work done and returned to normal service.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Aug 30, 2008)

Do the SPVs have the ability to use regular HEP connectors to get electricity from a P42 or other regular locomotive?

When FEMA is in charge, are the hours of service restrictions for the crew still in effect?


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## Montanan (Aug 30, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> > According to postings on the "City of New Orleans Train" Yahoo Group, two FEMA trains left New Orleans for Memphis today. FEMA 1 had 16 Superliner cars and 4 single-level coaches, while FEMA 2 was expected to consist entirely of single-level equipment. Most of the single-level cars are coaches kept in N.O. for an emergency such as this, though some Crescent equipment may be used as well.
> ...


The single-level cars that were stationed in NOL this summer weren't the Amfleet I cars that were kept there last summer ... according to the group's posters, the emergency cars kept in NOL this year were coaches borrowed from Connecticut DOT.


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## MattW (Aug 30, 2008)

Montanan said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Montanan said:
> ...


Interesting you should mention those CDOT cars. I saw a YouTube video just last night where the Crescent was rolling through Austell, GA trailing 5 of the CDOTs.


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## Montanan (Aug 31, 2008)

Another update, again compiled from reports on the CNO Yahoo Group:

The FEMA-1 evacuation train is made up of the last inbound consists of the CNO and the Sunset to make it into New Orleans, along with 4 of the former Connecticut DOT coaches that had been kept in New Orleans for emergencies. That train got to Memphis yesterday evening and arrived back in New Orleans early this afternoon, presumably to make another evacuation run north.

The FEMA-2 train includes the equipment off the last inbound Crescent, along with 5 of the emergency coaches. It arrived in Memphis later last night. No information has been posted on its current status this morning, but I would guess that it's probably on its way south again now.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Way to go Marc Magliari (sp), Amtrak spokesman!

He just spelled out Amtrak's accomplishments on the cable weather channel. They let him speak at length. The last train leaves N'Orleans between 3 and 5 or so this afternoon (Saturday). He distinctly mentioned the coming down of the flood gates as the limiting factor. He mentioned the omission of Amtrak usage during Katrina. He said the trains were carrying over 1,000 people (each, think he said) towards Memphis where they were being released to FEMA's care. He said the trains were being cleaned and refueled in N'Orleans. I didn't get the sense that they were all elderly at this point. It appeared that they had to come down to the UP Terminal and register before getting on the train.

The blurb is sure to be repeated. It's an Amtrak coup to have him on the spot to make the case for Amtrak.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Aug 31, 2008)

It sounds like the Weather Channel may have had better coverage than anything news.google.com can find me; this article seems to be about the most informative that's out there.


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## Montanan (Aug 31, 2008)

I wonder where these evacuation trains are unloading in Memphis, since the route into Central Station from the south is presumably still closed by that sinkhole?


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## wayman (Aug 31, 2008)

Guest said:


> Way to go Marc Magliari (sp), Amtrak spokesman!
> He just spelled out Amtrak's accomplishments on the cable weather channel. They let him speak at length. The last train leaves N'Orleans between 3 and 5 or so this afternoon (Saturday). He distinctly mentioned the coming down of the flood gates as the limiting factor. He mentioned the omission of Amtrak usage during Katrina. He said the trains were carrying over 1,000 people (each, think he said) towards Memphis where they were being released to FEMA's care. He said the trains were being cleaned and refueled in N'Orleans. I didn't get the sense that they were all elderly at this point. It appeared that they had to come down to the UP Terminal and register before getting on the train.
> 
> The blurb is sure to be repeated. It's an Amtrak coup to have him on the spot to make the case for Amtrak.


Fantastic! I just went to weather.com, then clicked over to the television section (the Weather Channel's official page), looking for this clip. I didn't find the interview with Magliari, but I did watch half a dozen 60-90-second clips about storm preparedness and evacuation, several of which showed brief 1-2-second video of people boarding trains (specifically, CDOT and Superliner cars) along with several mentions of Amtrak and train evacuation. Just brief mentions, no specifics, in those clips, but buses were not receiving much more mention in specific so it's nearly "equal air time" 

Going back to a thread from long ago, another difference between the Katrina and Gustav evacuations is that this time people are allowed to bring pets on official evacuation vehicles. They didn't explicitly say "pets are traveling on trains as well as buses", but they showed official evacuation pet carriers (presumably for those bringing their dogs on leashes--anyone with a cat already has one) in huge stacks at NOUPT, it's broadly announced that people can bring pets, and officials say the response has been overwhelming--many people who refused to leave last time are readily willing to leave early this time because of this policy change.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

CNN FEMA spokesman on now (Sunday) said that there was 1 train today versus 2 yesterday. He said that there were 3 floodgates which each had to be closed as soon as the train passed.

Pets were going in air conditioned trucks in carriers...had read previously that they were chipped so that they could be reunited more quickly with their owners.


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## Neil_M (Aug 31, 2008)

Poor sods. After Katrina you might have thought they could get on with their lives and return to some sort of normality. Hope it works out for the best and there is no huge loss of life like last time.

At least there seems to be some sort of plan this time.....


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Here's an excellent hurricane tracker. It looks like the Amtrak cities of N'Orleans, Houma, Beaumont, and Houston stand to be affected badly.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26295161


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 31, 2008)

Guest said:


> Here's an excellent hurricane tracker. It looks like the Amtrak cities of N'Orleans, Houma, Beaumont, and Houston stand to be affected badly.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26295161


And it looks like as the week goes along, the *Texas Eagle *and *Heartland Flyer *could come under the gun as well, especially if this holds on as an "inland hurricane."


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## wayman (Aug 31, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Here's an excellent hurricane tracker. It looks like the Amtrak cities of N'Orleans, Houma, Beaumont, and Houston stand to be affected badly.
> ...


It's not often that America thanks Cuba for anything, but for Gustav we should take a moment to consider Cuba's loss and be thankful that they probably spared us a lot of damage--the landfall over Cuba knocked Gustav from Cat 5 to Cat 3 and destabilized its eye. While it may pick up again, and while it's still huge, there's notably less wind in Gustav today than there was yesterday. Given that hurricanes tend to lose two Cats upon landfall, the difference between going from 5-3 and going from 4-2 (or maybe even 3-1) will make a huge difference on any effect upon the Eagle and Flyer.


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## Spokker (Aug 31, 2008)

Hopefully Amtrak won't use this hurricane as an excuse to cut more service.


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## AlanB (Aug 31, 2008)

Compliments of Shawn Levy in Amite, LA, Chris and other e-mail reports:

Amtrak is shuttling 2 "evacuation" trainsets from New Orleans to Memphis. The trains are operating "pull-pull" with a pair of P42 locomotives at each end. The trainsets are:

*FEMA 1* (City of New Orleans and Sunset Limited equipment)

AMTK 87 P42DC

AMTK 63 P42DC

AMTK 1203 Baggage Car

AMTK 39024 Superliner II Transition Sleeper

AMTK 32077 Superliner II Sleeping Car

AMTK 38065 Superliner II Dining Car

AMTK 33035 Superliner II Sightseer Lounge

AMTK 34030 Superliner I Coach

AMTK 34008 Superliner I Coach

AMTK 34052 Superliner I Coach

AMTK 34116 Superliner II Coach

AMTK 31035 Superliner I Coach Baggage

AMTK 37006 Superliner I Cross Country Cafe

AMTK 39013 Superliner II Transition Sleeper

CDOT 1673 Commuter Car

CDOT 1625 Commuter Car

CDOT 1633 Commuter Car

CDOT 1671 Commuter Car

AMTK 68 P42DC

AMTK 139 P42DC

*FEMA 2* (Crescent equipment)

AMTK 13 P42DC

AMTK 12 P42DC

CDOT 1001 Commuter Car

CDOT 1621 Commuter Car

CDOT 1623 Commuter Car

CDOT 1629 Commuter Car

CDOT 1675 Commuter Car

AMTK 25107 Amfleet II Coach

AMTK 25058 Amfleet II Coach

AMTK 25074 Amfleet II Coach

AMTK 25027 Amfleet II Coach

AMTK 25016 Amfleet II Coach

AMTK 28022 Amfleet II Cafe/Lounge

AMTK 62025 Viewliner Sleeper NORTHERN VIEW

AMTK 62022 Viewliner Sleeper MOUNTAIN VIEW

AMTK 1762 Baggage Car

AMTK 169 P42DC

AMTK 22 P42DC

The CDOT cars are the retired Budd SPVs.

The trains are operating on a "load and go" basis - no set schedule. Each trainset is expected to have 1000 to 1500 evacuees per load, and make 4 evacuation trips (8 total).

FEMA 1 left New Orleans Saturday at 11:30 as Amtrak 87 North. The train suffered an air problem (reports vary; air hose or air line) and was delayed enroute. The train passed Hammond, LA at 13:52.

FEMA 2 left New Orleans Saturday at approximately 3:00 as Amtrak 13 North. The train passed Hammond, LA at 16:54.

*Photos by Shawn Levy:*

FEMA 1 north end

FEMA 1 south end

FEMA 1 CDOT 1625

FEMA 1 CDOT 1671


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## wayman (Aug 31, 2008)

AlanB said:


> *FEMA 2* (Crescent equipment)
> AMTK 13 P42DC
> 
> AMTK 12 P42DC
> ...


What did they do with the Heritage Diner from the Crescent trainset?

I assume there's no food service; are they using the diners and cafes for "coach seating"?

Are they doing anything with the baggage cars, or are they just along for the ride?


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

For the question about where they unloaded:

One report said that they routed around the Memphis sinkhole and then backed into the Memphis station where buses picked up the pax and took them elsewhere.

Elsewhere a report said that they would be given snacks along the trip. Snacks weren't defined.

Re Alan's list of trips: There were 2 on Saturday, so there must have been 2 on Sunday.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Picture of one of FEMA Amtrak leads from N'Orleans newspaper online:

http://photos.nola.com/tpphotos/2008/08/nola_102.html

Evacuees inside roomette:

http://photos.nola.com/tpphotos/2008/08/nola_107.html


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## Dutchrailnut (Aug 31, 2008)

Nice pictures but first one is yard switcher, not one of locomotives on FEMA trains.


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## rtabern (Sep 1, 2008)

Interesting with the consists... I wonder if there was a fight among evacuees as to who got sleeping car rooms and who was in coach... or if no one really cared.


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## Spokker (Sep 1, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Interesting with the consists... I wonder if there was a fight among evacuees as to who got sleeping car rooms and who was in coach... or if no one really cared.


People who would fight over that would really show their true colors.


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## had8ley (Sep 1, 2008)

Dutchrailnut said:


> Nice pictures but first one is yard switcher, not one of locomotives on FEMA trains.


That is the NOUPT switcher all right. It probably drug the train in from the coach yard and left out behind it after it left. It looks like it's up near the bumper in UPT. While we're on this subject just why did Amtrak take these 500 series GE's out of road service? They arrived on the property amongst great fanfare not all that many years ago. Is there some deficiency that they all share?


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

Well, had8ley, it looks like you'll be at the tip of the spear very soon. You'll be in our thoughts today.


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## Dutchrailnut (Sep 1, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Dutchrailnut said:
> 
> 
> > Nice pictures but first one is yard switcher, not one of locomotives on FEMA trains.
> ...


they ride like a lead sled, and are only 3200 hp, their not totally out of road assignments however any of these can be used to replace a ailing P42 if need be.

but their main assignments is terminal switcher.


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## had8ley (Sep 1, 2008)

Dutchrailnut said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Dutchrailnut said:
> ...


Thanks Dutch~ the GM in NOL made a big to do when they turned the Sunset loose with a pair when they first came out. It didn't take long to see them trailing, then gone. I noticed a slight slow down on #1 leaving El Paso going west but no lack of GE smoke.


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## had8ley (Sep 1, 2008)

Guest said:


> Well, had8ley, it looks like you'll be at the tip of the spear very soon. You'll be in our thoughts today.


Thank you sir; if it wasn't for our generator we would be dead in the water. The power went out about 2 hours ago (9 a.m.) CDT and there's no relief in sight. We are under a tornado watch as is everyone from the Florida Panhandle to Louisiana. I just came in from moving a pine tree that fell on the main highway in front of our house. Sounds crazy but somebody might need to get to the hospital or be a first responder. I doubt a Hummer would have gotten over this tree.


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## rtabern (Sep 1, 2008)

You're totally in our thoughts!! I hope it spares New Orleans and Baton Rouge. I used to go to college in Arkansas and New Orleans was a few hours away... we used to go a couple of times a year... such a fun city!!

I'm hoping to make it back there next March.

Keep us updated Hadley!


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Sep 1, 2008)

Stay safe, had8ley.

OBS gone freight...


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## Joel N. Weber II (Sep 1, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Interesting with the consists... I wonder if there was a fight among evacuees as to who got sleeping car rooms and who was in coach... or if no one really cared.


I bet the number of people who knew enough about trains to have a strong preference may have been small enough that it wouldn't have been much of an issue.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if people simply got assigned to a car. I think I read somewhere (maybe in the article that I posted a link to) that the authorities handling the evacuations weren't interested in letting people pick a destination that would get them to the same place the rest of their family was.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 1, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Dutchrailnut said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


I dunno, but I'd also think that with its lack of cowling, it would be more suited for switching anyway.


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## battalion51 (Sep 2, 2008)

A DASH-8 is better suited than a P-42 is for switching, that's for sure. The P-42's are very slow to load up, and when you're talking about just trying to pull the slack out or bunch em up it's a pain in the butt (especially in a yard like Sanford). You also have very poor visibility when you're backing up, and IIRC it's against the rules to ride the ladders on them, whereas most other engines are built for it. However, the DASH-8 is far from suitable when it comes to switching, for a number of reasons. Compared to a motor like an MP15 the sight lines are horrible (but better than the aforementioned P-42). Also, if you want A/C on these units you have to run the 480, which means you're wasting a lot of fuel since the engine runs at such a high RPM rate. The Turbocharger also makes things a bit tricky since you can lose control of the train quickly (unless you're really really good at what you're doing) when the Turbo kicks in. These motors are still also geared to run at 110 MPH, so the ratio is not even close to what a "standard" switcher gearing ratio is. As stupid as it sounds, the best switchers are the things that were built back in the 50's and 60's that are (relatively) low horsepower de-turboed engines. The advantage to having the DASH-8's scattered around the system for switching in relatively small outposts (like Hialeah, Sanford, Portland, and Seattle) is that they do have the full ability to step in for an ailing motor and get the train over the road (HEP and all). Should Amtrak order more of the like as switchers, absolutely not. But they do the job they're asked to do pretty well. Should Amtrak consider some HEP'd ES44DC's for Auto Train, I think so...


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## jackal (Sep 2, 2008)

battalion51 said:


> These motors are still also geared to run at 110 MPH, so the ratio is not even close to what a "standard" switcher gearing ratio is. As stupid as it sounds, the best switchers are the things that were built back in the 50's and 60's that are (relatively) low horsepower de-turboed engines.


You know, come to think of it, the best switching engines I worked on were indeed like that--GP38s built in 1968/69.

Sight lines on the MP15s were much better, but overall, I liked switching with the Geeps better. Seemed like they handled better.

Of course, the Geeps I worked on on the North End were driven by probably one of the best switching (and road-handling, for that matter) engineers on the Alaska Railroad, whereas the MPs I worked on on the South End were driven by some not-so-great ones. That probably affected my experience (not that I had terribly much of it)...

Also, freight road engines like the SD70MAC are geared for a top speed of 70mph. I would assume the road-switchers like the Geeps are geared similarly. For a "true" switcher like the MP15, is the gearing any different? Could they hit 70 if they needed?


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## battalion51 (Sep 2, 2008)

Most switchers are geared somewhere in the 55 MPH-75 MPH range depending on the model, needs, and FRA certifications.


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## Shotgun7 (Sep 2, 2008)

Not that I have a whole lot of switching experience, or even train operating experience for that matter, but the oldschool Alco S-2s are my personal favorite switching locomotives. They have a very old control stand that's extremely easy to control at low speeds and the engine is extremely responsive despite its 80 year old age. They also have a fantastic amount of visibility at all angles.


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## battalion51 (Sep 4, 2008)

The other thing that I forgot about was with most switchers you can have a Full Service application on and still be able to shove, making for very good easy joints. Not quite the same with a DASH-8 or P-42.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 4, 2008)

:unsure: From the US Gov website DHS and FEMA contract: " capacity to transport 9000 evacueess withing 48 hrs, commence within 24 hrs notice. " Did they fall short of there contract by an few thousand, or is it just me thinking again?  Just-Thinking-51


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## AlanB (Sep 4, 2008)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> :unsure: From the US Gov website DHS and FEMA contract: " capacity to transport 9000 evacueess withing 48 hrs, commence within 24 hrs notice. " Did they fall short of there contract by an few thousand, or is it just me thinking again?  Just-Thinking-51


I would think not. From my earlier post:



AlanB said:


> The trains are operating on a "load and go" basis - no set schedule. Each trainset is expected to have 1000 to 1500 evacuees per load, and make 4 evacuation trips (8 total).


If we assume only 1,000 per run, that's 8,000, if we assume maximum that's 12,000. So it would seem that Amtrak was right in the ball park on this one. It's up to FEMA and the State and City to decide if they want to run all 8 runs. But Amtrak was certainly ready and in compliance with the contract.


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## Montanan (Sep 5, 2008)

An update on the FEMA/Amtrak evacuation trains, again from the CNO Yahoo group:

Each of the evacuation trains (FEMA-1 and FEMA-2) will be making only a single return run from Memphis to New Orleans. Both trains will utilize a detour route via Hattiesburg, Mississippi, due to storm-caused track damage on the CN a little north of New Orleans. They'll be overnight runs -- train FEMA-2 was scheduled to leave Memphis yesterday evening, arriving in New Orleans this morning. FEMA-1 will head out of Memphis tonight.


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## jackal (Sep 5, 2008)

battalion51 said:


> The other thing that I forgot about was with most switchers you can have a Full Service application on and still be able to shove, making for very good easy joints. Not quite the same with a DASH-8 or P-42.


Can't do this with the bigger GEs? Is there some sort of override that cuts out the throttle when there is a full-service application?

Or is it a physical ability thing--the gearing is higher and so it just won't move a cut of cars with the brakes applied?


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## battalion51 (Sep 5, 2008)

It's the way that they're geared. The big thing is since the DASH-8 and P-42 are road motors designed for passenger trains, they're really built for trains that operate in graduated where you can let go of some of your air, not the case with these switchers. They're built to run in direct, where you either let go of all of your air, or you let go of none of it. When you're in a rush and you need to make a joint, you don't have time to let go of your air and go after it again.


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## Crescent Mark (Sep 6, 2008)

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/20...no_evacuee.html

Residents are returning home from Memphis via Amtrak to NOLA


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## VentureForth (Sep 8, 2008)

Just in time to go back to Memphis for Ike!


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Sep 9, 2008)

Montanan said:


> Each of the evacuation trains (FEMA-1 and FEMA-2) will be making only a single return run from Memphis to New Orleans. Both trains will utilize a detour route via Hattiesburg, Mississippi, due to storm-caused track damage on the CN a little north of New Orleans.


When I first saw this I thougt, this is going to take a while. A few years ago Jackson, Mississippi to Hatiesburg was 25 mph track. But, no longer. Based on a recent CN Central Division timetable, it is now 49 mph track, so not so bad. Jackson to Hattiesburg in something nearer 2 to 2.5 hours instead of something over 4 hours.


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## had8ley (Sep 10, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Do the SPVs have the ability to use regular HEP connectors to get electricity from a P42 or other regular locomotive?
> When FEMA is in charge, are the hours of service restrictions for the crew still in effect?


I'm back...and very tired but safe. I will elaborate some other day. The FRA exempts "emergency" situations and Acts of God. I have worked 30 1/2 hours under these exemptions. None of the crew got even a thank you and we had to fight to get paid~ the timekeeper said we could only work 16 hours! The crew is at the hands of FEMA for whatever it takes to get over the road time wise.


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## had8ley (Sep 11, 2008)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> Montanan said:
> 
> 
> > Each of the evacuation trains (FEMA-1 and FEMA-2) will be making only a single return run from Memphis to New Orleans. Both trains will utilize a detour route via Hattiesburg, Mississippi, due to storm-caused track damage on the CN a little north of New Orleans.
> ...


George;

Correct me if I'm wrong (which often happens) but most of this track was a threadbare 10 mph nightmare when the IC turned it over to the newly formed Mid-South back in the 80's. The IC even gave them engines to operate trains although I don't think GP-10's were the greatest of EMD's accomplishments. The NS has committed major dollars, and an ownership stake, to make this the "Dallas Speedway" and I think signaling is included in the plans. One just has to stand at Tuscaloosa after arriving on #20 and watch the stack and piggy-back trains headed for Dallas via Meridian.


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## George Harris_* (Sep 11, 2008)

Had8ley: I was talking about Jackson MS to Hattiesburg MS, which is still ICRR / CN in ownership. This was originally the Gulf and Ship Island, Gulfport MS to Jackson MS. No signals now or ever in the past. The section south of Hattisburg to Gulfport is KCS owned and it no longer appears in the CN / ICRR employee timetables.

Meridian - Jackson - Vicksburg - Monroe LA - Shreveport is th Dallas Speedway part and is now KCS owned and no longer appears in the ICRR / CN employee timetables. Yes, I have heard that signalling is in the plans, and I believe that some is already in service.

I think you are right about the track condition of Meridian - Shreveport when was turned over to Mid South. ICG basically ran everything into the ground. I used to stop and look at track from time to time when traveling by myself. At that time we lived near Memphi, then in Dallass, had in-laws in Pensacola, and I had worked short jobs in Louisiana and Alabama a couple of times, so I did quite a bit of driving around in the southern part of ICG territory. The Grenada district main line, Memphis to Jackson MS carried Amtrak with a 79 mph speed limit. It was mostly in 112 lb jointed rail that was so worn that the tops of the joint bars were shiney from wheel flange contact.

I was working on the Baltimore Light Rail in the late 80's when ICG (or was it ICRR again?) was selling off the rail from the second main from Chicago to Memphis and Jackson MS to Hammond LA to raise money. Due to budget contraints they considered buying about 20 track miles of it. My comment was please no. Even if not that worn, it has been beat to death by heavy alxe loads while being supported by poor ties and bad ballast. Someone was contracted to go look at it and make an assessment. Basically, he said the same thing but that opinion cost a few thousand dollars instead of my 15 minute opinion by someone already on the payroll. Baltimore decided to buy new 115RE instead.


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## had8ley (Sep 11, 2008)

George Harris_* said:


> Had8ley: I was talking about Jackson MS to Hattiesburg MS, which is still ICRR / CN in ownership. This was originally the Gulf and Ship Island, Gulfport MS to Jackson MS. No signals now or ever in the past. The section south of Hattisburg to Gulfport is KCS owned and it no longer appears in the CN / ICRR employee timetables.
> Meridian - Jackson - Vicksburg - Monroe LA - Shreveport is th Dallas Speedway part and is now KCS owned and no longer appears in the ICRR / CN employee timetables. Yes, I have heard that signalling is in the plans, and I believe that some is already in service.
> 
> I think you are right about the track condition of Meridian - Shreveport when was turned over to Mid South. ICG basically ran everything into the ground. I used to stop and look at track from time to time when traveling by myself. At that time we lived near Memphi, then in Dallass, had in-laws in Pensacola, and I had worked short jobs in Louisiana and Alabama a couple of times, so I did quite a bit of driving around in the southern part of ICG territory. The Grenada district main line, Memphis to Jackson MS carried Amtrak with a 79 mph speed limit. It was mostly in 112 lb jointed rail that was so worn that the tops of the joint bars were shiney from wheel flange contact.
> ...


Baltimore Light Rail made a good decision. Both mains to Hammond were given red-headed step child treatment probably back to the middle 70's. I used to shiver watching the Baton Rouge to McComb chemical train come off the Baton Rouge branch main. It had apparently had not been tamped in quite a while and the knuckles and draw bars would slide and squeal so loud coming "up the hill" (it really isn't much incline and tamping would have solved the problem right away) that you had to hold your ears even standing some distance away and with the train only doing 10 mph. It also seemed like it took forever to power the switch as it remained hand thrown well into the 90's.


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