# Planning Canadian Trip for March 2020



## brianpmcdonnell17

I am going to be taking my first trip on VIA; I have a lot of experience with Amtrak but don't know as much about VIA so have a few questions. I will be starting and ending the trip in Chicago so will get to Vancouver on the EB and Cascades and to Toronto on the LSL and Maple Leaf. My dad will be meeting me for the Canadian portion of the trip, most likely flying into/out of Seattle and Toronto. I have a maximum of 11 days to work with, so have four nights that will not be on the train. I was thinking 2 nights in Toronto and 1 each in Vancouver and Seattle; does that sound like a good distribution? The only one I have been to before is Seattle and I figured I would need 2 nights in Toronto as the connection between the Maple Leaf and Canadian would allow little time there if I only stayed one night. Also, which direction would likely have the better scenery in mid March? 


Lastly, what are the details of the accomodations? Do all sleeping car classes receive including meals and access to showers? Do coach passengers have access to an observation/dome car? Considering there are two of us, if we both get berths, should we both get upper/lower, or should one of us get each? How difficult would it be to spend time on the train together if one of us was in coach and the other in sleeper? 

I apologize for the excessive number of questions; VIA just seems to offer a much larger number of options than Amtrak.


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## zephyr17

All sleeping car passengers have the same meals. There is a shower available in each Sleeper Plus sleeper. During the peak season the times Sleeper Plus passengers can access the Park car is restricted. During the off season, Sleeper Plus passengers can access the Park car at anytime, though the first couple of rows of the dome are reserved for Prestige. During peak season there will also be two Skyline domes for Sleeper Plus passengers. Coach passengers have their own Skyline dome.

Under the new schedule, the scenery is much the same both directions. 

Coach passengers do not mix at all with sleeper passengers and are not allowed in the sleeper section of the train, except if they want to eat in the diner in the off season (in peak season there is hot food service in their Skyline). Coach has it's own Skyline lounge car as noted above. There is minimal mixing of sleeper and coach passengers, much less than on Amtrak.

If you get two lower berths, bear in mind that it will not block sale of the uppers in those sections.

While the train can still be several hours late at its endpoints under the current schedule, it is no longer suffering the 24-48 hour lateness it had been having under the old schedule. I do not have any qualms about booking the Maple Leaf the next morning and have done so. In my upcoming trip in November I have that connection, and I also felt comfortable booking the afternoon Cascades at Vancouver.

The train is worth the ride for the dome cars alone. The food is much, much better than Amtrak and the menu rotates every day. The onboard service is better and more consistent. Even the matresses are better. I have ridden it about once a year for the last 5 years, and it is a much better train than Amtrak has had in decades.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

zephyr17 said:


> All sleeping car passengers have the same meals. There is a shower available in each Sleeper Plus sleeper. During the peak season the times Sleeper Plus passengers can access the Park car is restricted. During the off season, Sleeper Plus passengers can access the Park car at anytime, though the first couple of rows of the dome are reserved for Prestige. During peak season there will also be two Skyline domes for Sleeper Plus passengers. Coach passengers have their own Skyline dome.
> 
> Under the new schedule, the scenery is much the same both directions.
> 
> Coach passengers do not mix at all with sleeper passengers and are not allowed in the sleeper section of the train, except if they want to eat in the diner in the off season (in peak season there is hot food service in their Skyline). Coach has it's own Skyline lounge car as noted above. There is minimal mixing of sleeper and coach passengers, much less than on Amtrak.
> 
> If you get two lower berths, bear in mind that it will not block sale of the uppers in those sections.
> 
> While the train can still be several hours late at its endpoints under the current schedule, it is no longer suffering the 24-48 hour lateness it had been having under the old schedule. I do not have any qualms about booking the Maple Leaf the next morning and have done so. In my upcoming trip in November I have that connection, and I also felt comfortable booking the afternoon Cascades at Vancouver.
> 
> The train is worth the ride for the dome cars alone. The food is much, much better than Amtrak and the menu rotates every day. The onboard service is better and more consistent. Even the matresses are better. I have ridden it about once a year for the last 5 years, and it is a much better train than Amtrak has had in decades.


Thanks for the information. I have a few follow-up questions.

1. What is sleeper plus? Does it include the berths?

2. If I make a single reservation with an upper and lower berth, will one be directly above the other? Likewise, if I reserve two uppers or two lowers, will they be adjacent? Also, I forgot to mention this in the original question, but is there any advantages to either an upper or lower berth?


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## Urban Sky

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Thanks for the information. I have a few follow-up questions.
> 
> 1. What is sleeper plus? Does it include the berths?


“Sleeper Plus” is everything which isn’t Economy (i.e. seating-only) or “Prestige” (deluxe sleeper), so either berths (upper or lower) or Cabins (for 1, for 2 or - rarely - for 3).



> 2. If I make a single reservation with an upper and lower berth, will one be directly above the other? Likewise, if I reserve two uppers or two lowers, will they be adjacent?


You should be placed above/next each other when booking “Upper and Lower Berths”, but 1U is above 1L, 2U is above 2L and 3U is above 3L, 1U/L is across the aisle from 2U/L, whereas 3U/L is across the aisle from the shower (check the “Manor” car diagram):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6058883870/


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## Seaboard92

In my opinion 3U is the best of the sections to have. It’s super easy to get in and out when you have the wall to brace yourself on.


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## Bob Dylan

The biggest advantages for a Lower are the Window and not having to use the Ladder to enter/exit the Berth.


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## Maglev

Also, I have read that the lower berth occupant is assigned the forward-facing seat in the daytime.


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## Seaboard92

Yes standard railroad practice denotes the higher fare gets the forward facing seat. I also use that when traveling with friends on Amtrak roomettes. 

Even though on the Canadian I don’t know why you would care about the section seats because there is so much to do


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## Bob Dylan

Maglev said:


> Also, I have read that the lower berth occupant is assigned the forward-facing seat in the daytime.


This is true, but as Seaboard says, you wont spend anytime sitting in the daytime seats in the Sleeper.


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## zephyr17

Sleeper Plus is all sleeping car accommodations except Prestige, including open section berths, cabins for 1, 2 and 3 (roomettes, double bedrooms/compartment, drawing rooms).

If you get an upper and lower, booked on one reservation, they will above/below each other in a single "section". You would probably have to work with a reservation agent to ensure two lowers are adjacent if you go that way. Although I mentioned it before, i want to emphasize that the upper berths will be open for sale and you may very well have another traveler assigned to the upper berths in those sections.

As noted by others, railroad convention is the lower berth occupant gets the forward facing seat in the section. I also want to add it is pretty common for berth travelers on the Canadian to elect not to have the berths made up into seats during the day, but leave the berths down and curtains hung.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

We decided to book an upper and lower berth on the train leaving Vancouver March 16th. Now we just need to plan the rest of the trip. We're thinking of spending one night in Niagara Falls instead of a second in Toronto now that GO has somewhat frequent service between the two.


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## jiml

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> We decided to book an upper and lower berth on the train leaving Vancouver March 16th. Now we just need to plan the rest of the trip. We're thinking of spending one night in Niagara Falls instead of a second in Toronto now that GO has somewhat frequent service between the two.


Good call. Just be aware that weekend hotel nights in NF will be considerably more expensive than weekdays - sort of the opposite of big cities. Not sure how that works with your schedule...


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## Skyline

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> We decided to book an upper and lower berth on the train leaving Vancouver March 16th. Now we just need to plan the rest of the trip. We're thinking of spending one night in Niagara Falls instead of a second in Toronto now that GO has somewhat frequent service between the two.




That's an excellent idea. 

For a trip I'm planning for next summer I'd like to find a place to park near NF (preferably on the US side), spend the night, then travel to meet the Canadian next AM. Parking and lodging in Toronto is super expensive, tho more convenient. 

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to park/stay on the US side with good frequent connections to/from Toronto? Either mass transit, shuttle vans, or even taxi. I'm not TOO picky about lodging aesthetics as this would only be a one-nighter each way -- just that humans and vehicles are safe and lodging is reasonably clean.

I'd be leaving the car for up to three weeks (Canadian both ways, side trip to Alaska).


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## jiml

The airport hotels in Buffalo offer Park 'n' Fly rates up to 14 days and there is a bus from BUF airport to Toronto (Megabus I think, and possibly a competitor - I'd have to check). You'd have to negotiate a few extra days parking with your stay, but shouldn't be difficult. There are also extended parking places at the airport.

Edited to add: https://ca.megabus.com/route-guides...dIoz-gkWQWqnL1WzkwsflqhOteaMnLSRoCLFoQAvD_BwE
and I think the competitor is Niagara Airbus, but they go to Toronto airport as opposed to downtown where you want to be.


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## jiml

BTW, if you haven't been to Buffalo before, the airport is out in the 'burbs and both people and vehicles are very safe. You'll see a lot of Ontario license plates at both the airport and adjacent hotels, since flying from there is popular and can be significantly cheaper than Toronto.


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## Skyline

jiml said:


> BTW, if you haven't been to Buffalo before, the airport is out in the 'burbs and both people and vehicles are very safe. You'll see a lot of Ontario license plates at both the airport and adjacent hotels, since flying from there is popular and can be significantly cheaper than Toronto.




Thanx, I'll check this out. I don't fly so know next to zip about airport parking. Do you need to be flying in or out of an airport to utilize their long term parking?


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## jiml

Skyline said:


> Thanx, I'll check this out. I don't fly so know next to zip about airport parking. Do you need to be flying in or out of an airport to utilize their long term parking?


No one has ever asked and you'll likely be using their airport shuttle to get to the bus, so it will certainly appear that you're flying somewhere. Although Buffalo airport is quite small, they have a lot of airport hotels which offer extended parking. There is a trio of Marriotts directly across the street that share a large parking lot... I go with whichever one has the lowest package rate. Also HGI and several others - whatever is your chain of choice. There is also long-term really cheap parking right at the airport. It's further away from the terminal, but still on the grounds with a free shuttle if you don't like any of the hotel options. Last time I checked it was $50/week. Considering airport parking can run up to $34 a day in Toronto, you'll understand why this is a great option.


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## NS VIA Fan

Why not just drive to the Toronto Airport and do the Stay & Park there? Lots of Hotels there offer this .. and with the US $....you'll save about 25%. Then take the UP Express from the Airport right to Union Station. Trains run every 15mins and take 25 mins.


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## jiml

NS VIA Fan said:


> Why not just drive to the Toronto Airport and do the Stay & Park there? Lots of Hotels there offer this .. and with the US $....you'll save about 25%. Then take the UP Express from the Airport right to Union Station. Trains run every 15mins and take 25 mins.


The savings on exchange might not make up the difference. YYZ hotel park 'n' fly rates run about double those in BUF - another reason there's a big billboard across from the Buffalo airport that features a Canadian flag and reads "Welcome to Buffalo Niagara International Airport - The Toronto Alternative". Frequently the Ontario plates in long-term parking (hotel or at the airport) outnumber those from NYS.

That having been said, the UP Express might be a nice add to Skyline's trip. Something like the Four Points Sheraton Toronto Airport East, which is fairly distant from the airport while still considered an airport hotel, might have lower rates and is an 8-minute Uber/taxi ride from Weston station - the second on the UP Express route to Union Station. This would save a trip to the airport entirely.


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## Skyline

Sorry for hijacking this thread but the info I attract may be valuable to the OP, or others. If moderators need to separate my questions/answers to a separate thread, that's fine.

I may have come up with a scenario that is affordable in Toronto, considering the exchange rate. Does anyone here have experience with...

1) Long-term parking at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport in their "Value Park" areas. Yes, I'd have to take the Ferry ($14 CDN round trip) to get my car to those areas ($99 CDN per week) but compared to other parking/hotel options this combo may not be that bad. So ... Any good or bad experiences at Bishop? Is there good public transit, or affordable taxi/Uber, from Bishop to hotels near Union Station? I could also walk if not more than a couple miles as I'll be using a large backpack in lieu of luggage (I'm a long distance backpacker) but I'm thinking after driving all day from Virginia that might be a bad idea.

2) Staying overnight at either the Intercontinental Toronto Centre (from $144 CDN) or Hotel Victoria Toronto (from $121 CDN). Pricing via _www.canadianhotelguide.com_, unverified yet by me. Both claim to be a six-minute walk to Union Station. I don't need a fancy hotel, just something clean and safe.

This adventure would tentatively happen in August 2020. I would be arriving the day/night prior to #1 leaving the next morning. On the return, I'd likely stay in a hotel that night and drive home the next day. As of now, travelling in a sleeper, solo.


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## NS VIA Fan

jiml said:


> The savings on exchange might not make up the difference. YYZ hotel park 'n' fly rates run about double those in BUF - another reason there's a big billboard across from the Buffalo airport that features a Canadian flag and reads "Welcome to Buffalo Niagara International Airport - The Toronto Alternative". Frequently the Ontario plates in long-term parking (hotel or at the airport) outnumber those from NYS.
> 
> That having been said, the UP Express might be a nice add to Skyline's trip. Something like the Four Points Sheraton Toronto Airport East, which is fairly distant from the airport while still considered an airport hotel, might have lower rates and is an 8-minute Uber/taxi ride from Weston station - the second on the UP Express route to Union Station. This would save a trip to the airport entirely.


That ferry ride to Billy Bishop takes about 90 seconds.....then just walk back through the tunnel (moving sidewalk) and a block out to Queens Quay. Very frequent TTC Streetcars to Union Station. About 10mins.

The Intercontinental is a great spot with some good views overlooking Union Station. 

Billy Bishop, Union and the Intercontinental are all close downtown, walkable and safe.


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## jiml

Intercontinental used to be CN's Union Station hotel, intended to compete with CP's (now Fairmont's) Royal York. It didn't, but is a decent hotel and is basically next door to the station on the south side of Front St. If you can get a room for that price, take it.

Everything NS VIA stated about the island airport is spot-on.


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## Skyline

Thank you for the insights. I am going to tweak my itinerary over the next couple weeks, and confirm pricing and avails. I need to do the same for Vancouver (likely staying here again -- https://skwachays.com -- for the experience) and beyond re: Alaska. Somewhere out west, I'm going to try to squeeze in at least a night or two of backpacking close to trains or ships.


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## jiml

Looking forward to your trip report.


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## Skyline

jiml said:


> Looking forward to your trip report.




Preliminary inquiries show my itinerary, which was to include a ship to Alaska from a west coast port, plus railfanning in Alaska, plus return to Vancouver, is going to break the bank. 

So now, I'm thinking of ending my westbound train travel in Vancouver, revisiting Vancouver for awhile, and seeking a backpacking opportunity not too awfully far from Vancouver. Preferably four days/three nights on a circuit, likely involving a shuttle or rental car to get to/from trailheads. I will ask the same questions on hiker-related sites/FB groups I participate with, but if by chance anyone here has suggestions I'm all ears, er, eyes.

At the conclusion, I'd return to Vancouver to catch the next day's #2 back to Toronto.


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## jiml

Skyline said:


> Preliminary inquiries show my itinerary, which was to include a ship to Alaska from a west coast port, plus railfanning in Alaska, plus return to Vancouver, is going to break the bank.
> 
> So now, I'm thinking of ending my westbound train travel in Vancouver, revisiting Vancouver for awhile, and seeking a backpacking opportunity not too awfully far from Vancouver. Preferably four days/three nights on a circuit, likely involving a shuttle or rental car to get to/from trailheads. I will ask the same questions on hiker-related sites/FB groups I participate with, but if by chance anyone here has suggestions I'm all ears, er, eyes.
> 
> At the conclusion, I'd return to Vancouver to catch the next day's #2 back to Toronto.


Have you priced out the Canadian yet? Summer rates would break my bank.


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## Skyline

jiml said:


> Have you priced out the Canadian yet? Summer rates would break my bank.




Yes, it almost breaks mine. For me solo in cabin for 2, room "F," with exchange rate last Tuesday, $5,788.82. Ouch, but not as bad as an additional $7,500+ to include the ship both ways plus land costs on the proposed Alaskan extension. Even more for Alaskan railfanning. I'd be replacing that with a couple extra hotel nights in Vancouver, plus almost-free backcountry days/nights in a tent.


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## Mike Lyons

Skyline said:


> Yes, it almost breaks mine. For me solo in cabin for 2, room "F," with exchange rate last Tuesday, $5,788.82. Ouch, but not as bad as an additional $7,500+ to include the ship both ways plus land costs on the proposed Alaskan extension. Even more for Alaskan railfanning. I'd be replacing that with a couple extra hotel nights in Vancouver, plus almost-free backcountry days/nights in a tent.



We are taking the Canadian 1 next may 31 from Toronto to Vancouver in a cabin for 2 and our fare is 4262 in Canadian dollars. The fares do go up considerably after May 31.


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## Anderson

Yeah...this is, I'll admit, no small part of why I just take it each winter and call it a day.

Edit: I *might* splurge in a year or so and do the summer on points.


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## Skyline

Mike Lyons said:


> We are taking the Canadian 1 next may 31 from Toronto to Vancouver in a cabin for 2 and our fare is 4262 in Canadian dollars. The fares do go up considerably after May 31.




Wow! That's quite a difference. I can't do this prior to summer 2020, but I could perhaps do it after summer 2020. Does VIA have a date certain when the rates go back down? I would search for such a date and see where we are.

Caveat: For tentative backpacking plans, I wonder how the weather would be say within 150 miles of Vancouver in September or early October? I can handle moderate cold and precip, not enthused about camping sub-freezing.


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## keith9016

Skyline said:


> Wow! That's quite a difference. I can't do this prior to summer 2020, but I could perhaps do it after summer 2020. Does VIA have a date certain when the rates go back down? I would search for such a date and see where we are.
> 
> Caveat: For tentative backpacking plans, I wonder how the weather would be say within 150 miles of Vancouver in September or early October? I can handle moderate cold and precip, not enthused about camping sub-freezing.



If this year is anything to go by prices fall in November.

https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/price_list_en_2019.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-prices


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## Skyline

keith9016 said:


> If this year is anything to go by prices fall in November.
> 
> https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/price_list_en_2019.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-prices




Thanks for that chart.

The difference between winter and summer isn't a deal breaker for me, tho it's nothing to sneeze at.

One thing is for certain, unless I hit the lottery I won't be doing Prestige! I'm really not sure if I'd travel with the 1% even if I was one.


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## NS VIA Fan

Here’s another long term Parking Option:

Park & Fly:

https://www.parknfly.ca/Location/Toronto-Airport-Parking.aspx

Last month I used the Park & Fly lot at the Halifax Airport and after they applied my CAA** discount….it was $65/week

**If you have AAA in the US you would should be able to use it here too. (I use my CAA in the US and get the same AAA discounts on hotels, attractions etc)


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## Skyline

NS VIA Fan said:


> Here’s another long term Parking Option:
> 
> Park & Fly:
> 
> https://www.parknfly.ca/Location/Toronto-Airport-Parking.aspx
> 
> Last month I used the Park & Fly lot at the Halifax Airport and after they applied my CAA** discount….it was $65/week
> 
> **If you have AAA in the US you would should be able to use it here too. (I use my CAA in the US and get the same AAA discounts on hotels, attractions etc)


Good to know, thanx! Price is right.


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## Skyline

keith9016 said:


> If this year is anything to go by prices fall in November.
> 
> https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/lecanadien/price_list_en_2019.pdf?ga_pdf=compare-prices



I just looked again. If the pricing I was quoted by phone is accurate, there seems to be a significant increase planned for 2020 vs. 2019. (I priced August 2020, summer rates.)


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## keith9016

Skyline said:


> I just looked again. If the pricing I was quoted by phone is accurate, there seems to be a significant increase planned for 2020 vs. 2019. (I priced August 2020, summer rates.)



Bear in mind that prices on that chart are per person and are based on two people travelling. Taxes also need to be added.

When i was looking to book our trip for next March a cabin for 2 was pricing up at C$3576 (discounted fare) exc taxes from Vancouver to Toronto for two passengers travelling. From that 2019 chart it was C$3570 (C$1785 x 2) so hardly any difference. In the end we got the same journey at C$2145 exc taxes in the Canadian Black Friday sale a few weeks back.

For a trip in Summer 2020 (August) the VIA website is quoting C$4462 (exc taxes) for two persons travelling in a cabin for 2 which is around 5% more than the 2019 pricing of C$4250 (2125 x 2).

I would hope what VIA quoted you by phone for travelling alone in a cabin for 2 in August was no more than C$3514 (all taxes included)


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## Skyline

It was $7,564.22 CDN, which that day translated to $5,877.82 USD. (That's round trip, which I mentioned in an earlier post.)

I will call back to investigate this week.


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## keith9016

Skyline said:


> It was $7,564.22 CDN, which that day translated to $5,877.82 USD. (That's round trip, which I mentioned in an earlier post.)
> 
> I will call back to investigate this week.



Yes that's the same as VIA website is quoting for round trip starting in Toronto.

However if you were to make two separate one way bookings you could save C$268 (approx US$200) due to the taxes being higher for journeys originating from Toronto.


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## Skyline

keith9016 said:


> Yes that's the same as VIA website is quoting for round trip starting in Toronto.
> 
> However if you were to make two separate one way bookings you could save C$268 (approx US$200) due to the taxes being higher for journeys originating from Toronto.



Thanx! I'll remember that, wierd as it seems.


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## keith9016

Skyline said:


> Thanx! I'll remember that, wierd as it seems.



Don't think VIA would suggest it either! Can't see any disadvantages of booking two one-ways over a round trip.

Here in the U.K. most of the time it's cheaper to book two one ways rather than round trip especially if booking in advance and that's got nothing to do with taxes!


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