# Annoying On-board Staff Experience on Southwest Chief



## Texan Eagle (Nov 2, 2011)

I had my first journey on the Southwest Chief this Monday, from Los Angeles Union Station to Albuquerque. Originally I had booked tickets from San Bernandino but since I was done with my work early in the day, decided to take Metrolink to LA Union and ask if they allow me to board the Chief from there, if not, I had the backup plan of taking Metrolink back to San Bernandino and wait there. The lady at the Amtrak ticketing took inordinately long time checking something in her system but eventually did allow me to board from LAUS and issued me LA to San Bernandino coach ticket costing $1.70. So, now I have in my collection what would probably the lowest costing Amtrak ticket I could ever get






Once I had my ticket, I wandered around since there was still over half hour before boarding starts, and I thought it would be first come first serve open seating, but seems that's not the case from LAUS. This is the start of a series of events I observed that are in place just to complicate a simple task of coach travel and seemingly to justify that all the staff is "doing some work". I was directed to a "Check in" desk where one person was assigning seat numbers to coach passengers. I asked him to give me a left side window seat, but he declined. He said he will only assign seat numbers in sequence and assigned me a right side aisle seat. He had a paper with coach composition and I saw half the coach was empty so I asked him can't he give me one of the window seats? But he flatly declined. I thought, thats ok, let me board, I'll get it changed from coach attendant.

More unnecessary complications in boarding- they did not announce the platform number until ten minutes before departure. I saw upstairs, all the platforms were empty except Platform 12 where a Surfliner was standing, they could have decided a platform and let passengers walk up, but didn't do, rather they announced it at 6.15pm and there was a mad scramble with over a hundred passengers running through the tunnel to PF-11!

The Chief had the usual composition- three sleepers, dining car, lounge, three coaches. I boarded the coach assigned to me, went to the aisle seat assigned and waited for boarding to complete. When we pulled out, in my car all the passengers had been huddled in the front half of the car and the rear half was empty! In the car behind mine, it was the same situation, and in the car in front of mine, there were a grand total of fifteen passengers. So I went to an empty window seat and when the coach attendant and conductor came to check my ticket, I requested them to reassign me to that window seat. But he flatly declined stating that all vacant seats are for families and groups boarding from stations enroute and I should go back and sit at my aisle seat! I told him that there is no guarantee only families and groups will be boarding the train, even if the train is full, there would be few single passengers boarding who can occupy the seats next to me, but he refused to budge from his stand.

I went to the lounge, had dinner in Dining Car and returned to coach after San Bernandino and still half the coach seats were vacant so I asked an attendant in the first coach car if I can move to one of the vacant rows of seats to sleep, since the person occupying window seat next to my assigned seat had already slept off using both seats! Again, answer- NO! We need the seats for passengers boarding enroute! Then, as if doing a huge favor, he whispers to me- come and sit at one of these "reserved" seats ("reserved" seats within an already reserved coach- Amtrak Inception



) for a few hours. I moved to one row of empty seats and slept off but ten minutes before Flagstaff, a staff member came and woke me up from sleep and told me to go back to my assigned seat because "the train will get full here and we need all open seats!" I got off at Flagstaff, looked around and there were no more than 20 people waiting to board and we had three half-vacant coaches. After Flagstaff when the train did not get "full" as claimed by the attendant, I once again went to him and asked him if I can occupy one of the empty window seats, but yet again he's like "No! All these seats are for passengers boarding from stations between Flagstaff and Albuquerque!"

Now, I wonder why the onboard staff behaves so unfriendly with the coach passengers? It is a fully reserved train, they obviously know how many people are boarding from which station, the train was running with under 40% occupancy, so why can't they stop being a pain in the a$$ and let passengers move about freely? It seemed more like an ego trip for the staff.. "just because we have the power, we will enforce it" types. This was not the attitude of one attendant, I talked to attendants in all three coach cars and all of them were adamant in letting all passengers huddled up in one part of the car and let the other half run empty.





The scenery and the run was fantastic so I enjoyed the journey, but if this is how the staff behaves, passengers new to train travel would not be enthusiastic about doing it again.


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## henryj (Nov 2, 2011)

I got the same treatment going from LA to SFO on the Starlight. The attendant was hyperventilating as he was telling us all about seats reserved for 'families' and all that crapola. I got a window seat on the right(wrong) side, but who cares it was a nice trip. I think it must be a California thing.


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## bobnabq (Nov 2, 2011)

Texan Eagle said:


> I was directed to a "*Check in" desk* where one person was assigning seat numbers to coach passengers.


I'll be returning from LAX to ABQ after Christmas. Is that standard procedure and something I should expect?

Also, would getting a Red Cap to board help prevent any of the hazzle described in the original post?

Thanks


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## Steve4031 (Nov 2, 2011)

I've experienced treatment like this years ago. Traveling single on amtrak in coach is not fun on ld trains. This was really unnecessary. I would call and comPlain. If you can tweet, tweet away. Maybe this crap will stop if Amtrak is embarrassed into reigning back exuberant employees.


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## train person (Nov 2, 2011)

Funny really, exactly the sort of inflexible Amnonsense that a writer from the UK wrote about recently and caused deep outrage amongst certain members here!!

What was that about not shooting the messenger? :help: :help: :help:


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## Michael061282 (Nov 2, 2011)

as much as I love Amtrak, they do tend to treat passengers as an inconvenience sometimes, some employees anyway.


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## Dan O (Nov 2, 2011)

I went from LA to Chicago and back three years ago. I just moved on my own the second night and slept where there were two empty seats instead of being next to someone who was hogging my seat. Another time I moved to a different coach car to recharge my phone. The attendant did ask what I was doing but didn't mind when I explained. It was on our return home and he did say the train would fill up and I'd have to return to my original seat once we hit Albuquerque. He was right as it did fill up there. But my phone was recharged so no problem there. I think I ran into a nicer crew than you did. Maybe I am just bad but I'd just move on my own rather than ask.

Dan


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## tonys96 (Nov 2, 2011)

Maybe you would have been better off getting on in San Bernidino?


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## tonys96 (Nov 2, 2011)

Way back in the old days (maybe 17 years ago) had same kind of deal on TE going to SAS. Directed to a car that was nearly full...no seats together for me and (then) wife. Nobody would move for us, so we just got off and told attendant we were going to fly to SAS instead...we were walking back into Dallas Union Station when another Amtrak employee (maybe conductor) stopped us and told us to follow him....we did and he put us in an empty coach car! Of course the car filled up onm the way tp SAS, so when we arrived there were maybe 25 of us in that car......The guy who boarded us in the empty car was saying the attendant at the other car was acting like a jerk.

I learned then that if asking nicely for something Amtrak related did not work, screw 'em......there are other ways to travel. I refuse to be a doormat!

Got on the TE in Longview once and the train was really FULL.................big time full, so the attendant nicely asked some of us to wait in the lounge until he could get everyone seated....since I was a single passenger, I told him that I could just stay in the lounge to Ft. Worth, and he actually smiled and said "thank you so very much"......

What goes around, comes around.


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## alicia Dapore (Nov 2, 2011)

I have recetly travelled on Amtrak - Toledo to Chicago, Chicago to San Antonio, then on to Los Angeles. My return trip was from Los Angeles to Chicago, then on to Toledo. I have experience the same treatment the one and only time I travelled coach. Getting an assigned seat, and NO you cannot change - this sounds all familiar. I was seated next to a man who smelled of cig smoke and hogged the electrical plug with all his electronics. I was seated next to the window. Since that experience, I have purchased roometts or a bedroom. Some sleeper attendants, I think, like to hear themself making announcements! Some are even right down rude - regardless of age. The dinner staff really need coaching on how to make dinner announcements.

During the months of Sept and Oct, I had the great experience to travel on three of Australia's trains - The Ghan, Indian Pacific, and The Sunlander. All rides were an experience of a lifetime. The staff on all trains were wonderful. The BIGGIES from Amtrak should experience Australia trains to see what SERVICE is all about.

I love trains, but Amtrak really needs to shape up in CUSTOMER SERVICE on the rails.


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## Texan Eagle (Nov 2, 2011)

Good to know that I am not the only one who has experienced this. I wonder if it would be a good idea to collectively write to Amtrak about how much pain in the a$$ their onboard staff is being to the passengers for no apparent reason. If they have been instructed by Amtrak to make everyone sit in fixed seats, give the passengers the option to select their seats at the time of booking itself rather than giving open seating reservation and then hyperventilating over what will happen is families and groups get in together. That way if I am travelling with a family, I will know at the outset if I am getting seats together or not rather than boarding in suspense and going through chaos on board.

As tony suggested, I feel if you are a single traveler, it is better to board from smaller stations rather than big terminals. When I boarded TE from Dallas traveling alone the attendant just told me to go upstairs and find any vacant seat of your choice. Similarly even on the Chief I guess they were letting people from intermediate stations sit wherever they want.

Dan- you are not bad, what you did is exactly what one needs to do when the staff decides to be a pain. Even I went and sat at vacant window seats, but the attendants, probably having no better work to do, made me get off three times stating "these seats are reserved".


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## Donctor (Nov 3, 2011)

bobnabq said:


> I'll be returning from LAX to ABQ after Christmas. Is that standard procedure and something I should expect?
> 
> Also, would getting a Red Cap to board help prevent any of the hazzle described in the original post?
> 
> Thanks


If I recall correctly, there's a little "coach assignment" kiosk at the side of the LAX waiting hall closest to the platform access tunnel. The line has been pretty long whenever—all four times—I've seen it. The Red Cap would be useful in avoiding the mad rush, but if the track assignment isn't relayed to the Red Caps more than a few minutes before general boarding, there's not much that can be done. Whatever happens, the trip should still be thoroughly enjoyable, I'm sure.

Also, from what I've heard (not from personal experience), the behavior described by the OP is not atypical of attendants on the SW Chief. Then again, that is not my personal experience, and I cannot speak to the accuracy of the assertion, especially given that crews do change as people leave or bid out.


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## johnny.menhennet (Nov 26, 2011)

If you want to arrive on the platform with time to spare... the Southwest Chief always departs from Platform 6 (tracks 11 or 12)... it switches between the 2, but is always on Platform 6... they will usually let you on the platform early, but in the case of me yesterday, a Surfliner engine broke down in Union Station and they made everybody on the Surfliner get off, go into the tunnel and wait, while they performed a "very dangerous switching operation"... luckily I was going south



... but really, you should always go to tracks 11 & 12


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## gswager (Nov 26, 2011)

We did the same thing at Seattle and Portland on Cascades where large amount of passengers are boarding. Let's say if you're going to Flagstaff or Albuquerque, they prefer to assign to one car to keep track of passengers.


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## rtabern (Nov 28, 2011)

I have seen Amtrak staff do this sometimes. Most of the time it's for a good reason -- as in -- they are trying to keep everyone getting off at the same destination together because the platform is so short they can't open all the doors, etc. However, other times I do think it can be a "power trip" thing.

Earlier this month, I did 2 one-way trips on the Cardinal with the #10031 Dome, WAS-CHI and NYP-CHI. Anyway, on both trips the train featured 4 coaches when it normally just has 3. It was even advertised as part of the Dome special that an extra coach would be added for extra steating. On both trains, the 4th coach (closest to the Dome) was empty all the way for most of the trip... I guess on the first trip I did they were keeping it just for IND-CHI passengers... but what got me... on the second trip... NO ONE was ever put in the fourth coach. Luckily I was in the sleeper, but that kinda crap would have gotten my goat (GN reference) if I was a coach passenger. Why not open up the 4th coach at all if everyone is crammed into 3? The only explanation seems to be laziness on the part of the coach attendant and/or conductors.


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## Ispolkom (Nov 29, 2011)

rtabern said:


> I have seen Amtrak staff do this sometimes. Most of the time it's for a good reason -- as in -- they are trying to keep everyone getting off at the same destination together because the platform is so short they can't open all the doors, etc. However, other times I do think it can be a "power trip" thing.
> 
> Earlier this month, I did 2 one-way trips on the Cardinal with the #10031 Dome, WAS-CHI and NYP-CHI. Anyway, on both trips the train featured 4 coaches when it normally just has 3. It was even advertised as part of the Dome special that an extra coach would be added for extra steating. On both trains, the 4th coach (closest to the Dome) was empty all the way for most of the trip... I guess on the first trip I did they were keeping it just for IND-CHI passengers... but what got me... on the second trip... NO ONE was ever put in the fourth coach. Luckily I was in the sleeper, but that kinda crap would have gotten my goat (GN reference) if I was a coach passenger. Why not open up the 4th coach at all if everyone is crammed into 3? The only explanation seems to be laziness on the part of the coach attendant and/or conductors.


They did the exact same thing on our dome trip on #50 last year. Once, I'm willing to suspend judgment. More than once, it certainly looks like a pattern.

A couple of months ago I rode the City of New Orleans Chicago-New Orleans. The sleeper was on the rear of the train, and after Memphis there were no passengers in the last coach. That afternoon, my sister wanted to take a nap, so I sat in the empty coach reading. After all, coach seats are to my mind (and rear) more comfortable than the seats in the Sightseer Lounge. A conductor asked me what I was doing there, but decided it was fine for me to be in the empty coach *because I was a sleeper passenger.*

I'll let smarter people than I figure that one out.


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## guest (Nov 29, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen Amtrak staff do this sometimes. Most of the time it's for a good reason -- as in -- they are trying to keep everyone getting off at the same destination together because the platform is so short they can't open all the doors, etc. However, other times I do think it can be a "power trip" thing.
> ...


Hmmm...wonder how that conductor feels about eating in the diner with coach people?


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## GPSTraveler (Dec 5, 2011)

Hello.

Of all the things I have learned, the GOLDEN RULE is obey the coach attendant when you board the train. Try not to question him/her during the seating process. Show respect, when possible. I have found that once you are seated, and provided that you followed the GOLDEN RULE, the coach attendant will be your best friend for the remainder of the trip. If you give him/her a hard timeduring the seating process, the trip can be very difficult from that point on. So before you are assigned a seat, be on your best behavior and do what he/shesays. The turning point occurs when that little slip of paper showing your destination goes on top of your seat, and then after the conductor has seen your tickets.From that point on, I have found it pretty easy to ask for just about anythingincluding changing seats (make sure its a seat in the same destination area as yours....

Just my little observation.... This is the make or break for my Amtrak trips while in coach. Its a culture thing, as the British writer correctly pointedout. When in Rome.......


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 5, 2011)

Obey? Seriously?

I'm not aware of any golden rule that starts out like that.

If coach attendants want our respect why can't they show us the same?

We're paying customers, not clueless kindergarteners.

Although I often ride in sleepers I have little tolerance for the way Amtrak _chooses_ to treat their paying coach passengers.

I've been bossed at by Amtrak staff at only to be apologized to when they see I have a sleeper ticket.

What possible explanation can Amtrak have for that sort of severe attitude disparity?


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## GPSTraveler (Dec 5, 2011)

Yes, Obey... DURING THE SEATING PROCESS.... Seriously. I have found that doing this little step makes or breaks an Amtrak trip. . I like to think of the seating process like a mandatory "Life Boat Drill" on a cruise ship if it makes you feel better. Everyone must obey during this little initial period, then after that point, you may request whatever you like from the crew for the remainder of the cruise. If the seating process stresses the Coach Attendant the most, why make it even more diffucult for him/her?

What actually really gets on my nerves are the people that are sitting in your assigned seat as soon as you board. As far as I am concerned the coach attendant is my friend, the passengers in the wrong seat are not following the GOLDEN RULE, and making things difficult for everyone. They are usually my problem, not the coach attendant.

Of course, when I travel by sleeper, there is no need for the GOLDEN RULE..... Just coach.....



Texas Sunset said:


> Obey? Seriously?


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## Steve4031 (Dec 9, 2011)

There is a balance here. The attendant is trying to board the passengers in an orderly manner. They are focusing on the seating diagram. So I understand their reluctance to address questions about changing seats. In this case it is best to go with the flow. It's like working with flight attendants on an airline. It's better to follow directions.

However I agree that the entire system of assigning seats is not helpful. As a single traveler I resent being the second single to board and then be assigned to an aisle. If I wait, on a full train no windows are left. On some occasions I played the game but the attendant still refused my request with open window seats available. This all about the desire to seat families together.

This entire process is why I wait to have money to go in a sleeper.


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## Texan Eagle (Dec 10, 2011)

GPSTraveler said:


> Yes, Obey... DURING THE SEATING PROCESS.... Seriously. I have found that doing this little step makes or breaks an Amtrak trip. . I like to think of the seating process like a mandatory "Life Boat Drill" on a cruise ship if it makes you feel better. Everyone must obey during this little initial period, then after that point, you may request whatever you like from the crew for the remainder of the cruise. If the seating process stresses the Coach Attendant the most, why make it even more diffucult for him/her?


Doesn't really help. If you read my original post, I was assigned a seat from the "check in koisk" at the station, quietly went up and sat at the aisle seat though I desperately wanted a window seat, let everyone settle down, let the attendant put that paper thingie over my seat and *then *went to an empty window seat, yet the attendant came and made me get up from there. Later, as I mentioned, at three different times, the onboard staff made me get up from an empty pair of seats in a *half empty train *stating "it will get all full at the next station" which never happened. All the way to Albuquerque all three coach cars had about 50% occupancy but just for the heck of it the staff kept insisting that everyone sit crammed in one half of the coach only.


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## henryj (Dec 10, 2011)

Texan Eagle said:


> GPSTraveler said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, Obey... DURING THE SEATING PROCESS.... Seriously. I have found that doing this little step makes or breaks an Amtrak trip. . I like to think of the seating process like a mandatory "Life Boat Drill" on a cruise ship if it makes you feel better. Everyone must obey during this little initial period, then after that point, you may request whatever you like from the crew for the remainder of the cruise. If the seating process stresses the Coach Attendant the most, why make it even more diffucult for him/her?
> ...



What would happen if you took that little paper thingie with you and stuck it over your new window seat?


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## rrdude (Dec 11, 2011)

I wanted to PUNCH my screen when I read about one poster's so called "Golden Rule". The Golden Rule SHOULD BE FOR AMTRAK STAFF, _not_ Amtrak passengers.

Gawd it must be great to be a current day employee, where you


Cannot be fired for any reason. (short of murder with witnesses)
Can treat the traveling public, (they used to be called "your guests", who btw PAY your salary) like doo-doo.
Hardly do your job at all, when you ARE on the job.

My _*apologies to all of the current respectful, honest, hard-working Amtrak employees*_. You know who you are, it is your scum-bucket "I'm-just-here-to-collect-a-pay-check" brethren who are a minority that give all of you a bad name.

I _understand_ the poster's rationale for "obeying", they want to have a good, fun, non-confrontational trip.... But "if in Rome, the Romans are slaughtering babies just for the fun of it", it doesn't mean we have to join in.................


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## GPSTraveler (Dec 22, 2011)

Why would this possibly make people upset? When you go to your gate at the airport, you MUST obey while you are in the security line. Everyone must go though this process (removing metal items, putting laptops in a seperate bin) etc... Now, how ridiculous would it be to be the only guy who requests to leave your belt on, while everyone else knows the drill. No one is going to think that you are being singled out if you get into trouble because you are not following the Golden Rule. This is exactly what I mean by the Golden Rule..... nothing more. If you wanted to change the rules while waiting in the security line in the airport, or a customs or immigration line, your trip is going to become difficult for no reason at all. This is a fact.

The Amtrak seating process is the same kind of thing. When the coach attendent seats you, you do not move to another seat without his/her permission, otherwise you are going to have a more difficult trip. If he/she gives you permission and they log your change of seating position, then no problem.

I am not trying to tick everyone off here, this is just what I have learned from personal experience. The coach attendent (on Amtrak Trains) REALLY hates it when passengers move out of their assigned seats. For all I know, they are all trained to stop this activity, its a culture thing. Perhaps, on Via Rail in Canada or Virgin Trains in the UK, Everyone CAN get up and move to another seat. If the corporate culture permits it, why not?

I really don't think this is a good employee, bad employee kind of argument. Look at it this way... On a Cruise Ship people must follow orders during the life boat drill, in an airport people follow directions from the TSA while going through the security line, On Amtrak Trains people must obey the coach attendent during the seating process. Is this really so difficult? Different transportation, different culture....



rrdude said:


> I wanted to PUNCH my screen when I read about one poster's so called "Golden Rule". The Golden Rule SHOULD BE FOR AMTRAK STAFF, _not_ Amtrak passengers.
> 
> Gawd it must be great to be a current day employee, where you
> 
> ...


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## Steve4031 (Dec 23, 2011)

It is the people enforcing the procedures onboard Amtrak and at the airport that are inconsistent. A professional, courteous TSA employee helps make the trip through security tolerable. Such an employee can also respectfully and politely manage unusual situations and requests.

A incompetent TSA employee can make the trip through security a miserable process, or even worse embarrassing and demeaning.

While most airline passengers are annoyed by the security process, they deal with it because it is a true safety issue.

The Amtrak seating procedure when seats are assigned is OK if the attendant is able to manage requests for window seats, etc. A control freak attendant makes the process miserable and an imposition.

I agree it is best to start of being polite in any situation whether its TSA or dealing with Amtrak employees. When you get an incompetent do nothing, report them. If it is bad enough, tweet it. Send a message to @Amtrak. It is true they just tweet back to call customer service.

However, if enough tweets are out there about incompetent crews, IMHO, someone will take notice.


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