# agr tightens up on allowed routings for redemptions



## yarrow (Jul 30, 2014)

this has been discussed before but i would be interested in the experience and views of others. there has been a trend in agr, i guess since the slidell loophole was closed, to be more consistent with and to reduce allowed routings. in the past 5 years we have done 2 zone redemptions of spk-chi-was-atl, spk-chi-nol-atl, atl-nol-lax-pdx-spk. according the the "rules" these were not allowed but we had no trouble booking them with agr. no longer. i still think agr is a great program but i would be interested in the experience of others with tighter and more consistently enforced redemption policies


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## Ispolkom (Jul 30, 2014)

yarrow said:


> this has been discussed before but i would be interested in the experience and views of others. there has been a trend in agr, i guess since the slidell loophole was closed, to be more consistent with and to reduce allowed routings. in the past 5 years we have done 2 zone redemptions of spk-chi-was-atl, spk-chi-nol-atl, atl-nol-lax-pdx-spk. according the the "rules" these were not allowed but we had no trouble booking them with agr. no longer. i still think agr is a great program but i would be interested in the experience of others with tighter and more consistently enforced redemption policies


You have always been vastly more fortunate than I in booking these forbidden routings. Two years ago I got a HOS-LAX-PDX-MSP one-zone award, and I'm sitting on a November KCY-LAX-PDX-MOT two-zone award. That one earned a special call from AGR. I was sternly told that I shouldn't have been able to book the trip, and wouldn't be able to change it. We'll see what things look like in November with the Coast Starlight-Empire Builder connection. That was a first for me.

I'd guess that these routes are harder to book, but honestly, I haven't been trying much. Mostly I've been riding the Empire Builder to Minot visit my aged, ailing mother. I wish it were otherwise (heck, so does she!), but my head really hasn't been in the game.


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## Ryan (Jul 30, 2014)

Yes, the rules were published sometime last year, and have been much more stringently enforced since then.


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## Acela150 (Jul 30, 2014)

RyanS said:


> Yes, the rules were published sometime last year, and have been much more stringently enforced since then.


That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.


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## SarahZ (Jul 30, 2014)

Yup, I just went through this. I wanted to do CHI - NOL - WAS - CHI, but they were going to charge me two two-zone awards (40k points) plus the CHI - NOL one-zone (15k points) even with the overnight in NOL.

The solution was to redeem 15k points from CHI - NOL, spend the night in NOL, pay for coach from NOL to SDL ($13), and then pay 20k points for a two-zone roomette from SDL - WAS - CHI. I was able to board my roomette in NOL, so it was no big deal, and I got points for the NOL - SDL portion.


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## Ispolkom (Jul 30, 2014)

Acela150 said:


> That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.


So, there aren't issues, except when there are.


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## Acela150 (Jul 30, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.
> ...


Except when there are issues the Agents are usually wrong.


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## Shanghai (Jul 31, 2014)

I was able to book a WTH(98)-NYP(49)-CHI(3)-LAX(14)-SFC and return SFC/OKJ(11)-LAX(422)-CHI(30)-WTH(91)

with one agent, then I had an issue and called back getting another agent who told me that was an in-proper booking.

She put me on hold for about 5 minutes, then told me they would accept the booking, but I could not make any changes

to the reservation. We wanted to see Raton Pass again, then go to San Francisco to visit our daughter. I was quite

surprised, but I do not plan to make any changes.


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## JayPea (Jul 31, 2014)

My uncle and I have an AGR trip coming up Sunday that involves one award from Champaign to Albuquerque on one award and Albuquerque to East Glacier on another. When we had to make a slight change to our reservation we were told that we shouldn't have been able to book that trip without an overnight in Albuquerque even though the forced stopover rule was proven to be false. When we pointed that out, the agent said she didn't care what the rules said. :angry2: Out of the goodness of her heart  she said she would honor our request but be aware it probably wouldn't happen again.


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 31, 2014)

My home station is Bloomington, IL. The scheduling from BNL does not permit many routes that can be taken from Chicago and does not permit connection at Galesburg with the SWC.

I feel that we (BNL) had been overlooked when the scheduling was created.

For example, I can not take the SWC or the EB to EMY from BNL via either GBB or CHI because it's not on the schedule. The only way I can take these is if I pay the fare from BNL to CHI.

I feel they should take another look at this and correct it as there really is no sense of fairness in this.


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## benale (Jul 31, 2014)

I just booked a two zone from Toledo to Los Angeles using The Capitol Limited, The Empire Builder and the Coast Starlight, with an overnight(on my dime)in Portland so I wouldn't have to worry about a late running EB. I knew I could do this by reading the rules and regulations, but I also knew I would encounter resistance from an AGR agent. she told me that wasn't a published route. I told her I just saw it on the list of routes that were acceptable. On hold for ten minutes. Next,when I told her I wanted to spend the night in Portland, I was put on hold another ten minutes. Finally, the booking was approved,.

I spent quite some time accumulating those points and I wanted maximum train time. I booked this trip for late June, as soon as the dates were available. I plan returning on The Texas Eagle and The Lake Shore Limited, with the hope the LSL is still running late next summer so we don't arrive in Toledo on time at 3 in the morning.

You would think the agents would be familiar with what is allowable on a redemption,without having to be put on hold. However, the first part of the trip is booked,and we also booked motels and car rentals for the week we will be in California. Might as well get it done now,before prices rise. Interesting,we booked a cabin by Yosemite National Park and even booking for late June the website said only one available at this price for the date,so I booked it. Out of curiosity, I checked an hour later, and sure enough the lowest price was twice what I booked it for.

Guess it pays to book as far in advance as possible.


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## crescent2 (Jul 31, 2014)

The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.

Also, when booking sleepers, there is sort of a catch-22 if the connection time isn't a very generous one. You can't add an overnight for insurance without ending the award and having to redeem another one. But if you miss your connection, there's a chance you won't get your sleeper on the next train(s) because they are often sold out. You also don't get a partial refund of points in that case, only a voucher toward paid travel.

However, I just took my first AGR trip, involving four trains with scheduled layovers of 6-9 hours, and it went without a hitch.  Easy, easy way to see some of the country and visit a few cities. I took a friend with me and she's still talking about how much fun it was. The required points weren't easy for me to accumulate, but I'm a big fan of the program.


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## Ispolkom (Jul 31, 2014)

crescent2 said:


> The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.


I'd also suggest that they also remove routings that aren't legal, like Birmingham-Washington-Chicago-Los Angeles, for instance. I can't imagine that is such a popular paid itinerary that its users couldn't use multi-city.

I doubt that this would happen, because I get the impression that new routings have to be approved by someone (Operations?), and the problems of the few of us AGR members who book long-distance, convoluted sleeper travel aren't a high priority.


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## yarrow (Jul 31, 2014)

so, is it just a maturing of the agr program that they are tightening up on what is allowed or is it a more sinister reduction as in the attempt to remove coffee and juice from sleepers after 10am(or whatever) because "that is what the rules have always said"?


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## crescent2 (Jul 31, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> crescent2 said:
> 
> 
> > The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.
> ...


Wow, I was not aware that route was a published choice. Get it while it's there, if you have the points!


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## William W. (Jul 31, 2014)

They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.


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## Ispolkom (Jul 31, 2014)

William W. said:


> They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.


It took AGR two years to restore a useable zone map to their Web site. At that rate, what you want will take decades.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 1, 2014)

William W. said:


> They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.


Uh -- smiley - smiley --

Uh - that would require a system-wide policy embedded in the (ancient, but serviceable) software, for the benefit of the few AGR members. No way on earth -- the airlines specifically deny responsibility for the value of (miles - points)--

WW - are you impaired, or what?

Yeah, the no-cost "miles, or points" sometimes have value. Or not.

If you want the frequent (fliers, railers) points to be enhanced -- sorry -- might happen.

But beggars can't be --


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 1, 2014)

Hmmm, has someone been up to what Rep. Mica accused 'highway bill optimists' of being up to several years ago?


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## William W. (Aug 1, 2014)

NW cannonball said:


> William W. said:
> 
> 
> > They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.
> ...


I don't see what's so crazy about adding that functionality. Is a sleeper really that different from a seat, booking system-wise? I understand why you'd have to call for a complex itinerary, but a published route should be bookable online.

Impaired? I'm not sure what I've done to deserve an insult.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 9, 2014)

I was just playing around on the web site & noticed a route option for a PDX-NOL reservation, PDX-SAC-CHI-CVS-NOL. does this mean I can get that route for a 2 zone reward? This is getting confusing!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 9, 2014)

Unfortunately no! You'd have to go PDX-SAC-CHI-NOL or PDX-CHI- NOL to get a 2 Zone Award! (CVS is in the East as is ATL so that would be a 3 Zone Award or even 2+2 since NOL is in the Central!!!!!)


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 9, 2014)

Time was AGR Redemptions were based simply on the Zone you started in versus the Zone you finished in; hence the infamous Columbus Loophole where you go from Kansas City to Los Angeles to Portland OR to Columbus WI (1 stop north of Milwaukee) was a 1 Zone steal.

Now they base these things on how many Zones you travel through and if you cross back into a Zone, it counts again.


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## Rail Freak (Aug 9, 2014)

If you are an AGR traveler wanting to go out West & you live between ATL & NOL, you're between a rock & a hard place!


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## neutralist (Aug 9, 2014)

Rail Freak said:


> If you are an AGR traveler wanting to go out West & you live between ATL & NOL, you're between a rock & a hard place!


Unless we see back the full glory of the Sunset Limited once again I am afraid those who stuck between the east coast and NOL will be screwed.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 9, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Now they base these things on how many Zones you travel through and if you cross back into a Zone, it counts again.


No, if you have a routing that starts in a zone goes to another, and then crosses back into the first zone, that routing is "circular" and not eligible for one AGR award. Mind you, I've booked KCY-LAX-PDX-MOT as a 2-zone award, but I got a stern talking to when it was discovered.


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## William W. (Aug 9, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > Now they base these things on how many Zones you travel through and if you cross back into a Zone, it counts again.
> ...


A "stern" talking to? That's great customer service...

If the agent broke policy, it is he/she that should receive a "talking to."


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## crescent2 (Aug 12, 2014)

Zone A-Zone B-Zone A is not always forbidden on a two-zone award, if that's the only way you can get there on Amtrak's routing. I just completed an award trip going ATN (Alabama)-WAS-CHI and then the return, CHI-CVS-ATN. (Central-Eastern-Central in each award) No problems at all, because that's the only way to get from Anniston, AL, to Chicago according to Amtrak's website. Strangely, ATN-NOL-CHI (a one-zone routing) was the routing that was not allowed, I suppose because of the overnight layover on the passenger's dime in NOL. That layover is less than 24 hours, but it's still not an allowed routing for AGR.

Not pertinent to the above trip, but ATL can be in either the Central or Eastern zone. I thought AGR might tell me I had to start in ATL, but they didn't. Said starting in Anniston was perfectly OK on the 2-zone award.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 12, 2014)

crescent2 said:


> Zone A-Zone B-Zone A is not always forbidden on a two-zone award, if that's the only way you can get there on Amtrak's routing.


That's not what the rules as written say:





> Circle trips are not permitted using a single redemption. A circle trip is a travel itinerary comprised of a series of segments that exit, and later re-enter, the same zone.


I have no doubt that you were able to book your travel, just as I was able to book mine. That doesn't mean that the next agent who looks at your itinerary would not claim that your trip was illegal, just as I got a stern talking to. 

Even written down, AGR redemption rules mean what the agent you're talking to think they mean, and they mean that only for as long as that agent is on the telephone. There might be more consistency now. I leave that to others with greater experience to judge.


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## the_traveler (Aug 13, 2014)

Yes and no.

A "circle trip" is a reason to go to another zone (say PDX) just to get somewhere. So KCY to CHI via PDX is a circle trip. But the only way to go from ATL or BHM to the west coast (without an overnight in NOL and the 3 day a week SL) is via WAS, so this is an exception to the circle trip rule.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 13, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> A "circle trip" is a reason to go to another zone (say PDX) just to get somewhere. So KCY to CHI via PDX is a circle trip. But the only way to go from ATL or BHM to the west coast (without an overnight in NOL and the 3 day a week SL) is via WAS, so this is an exception to the circle trip rule.


Where do you get that from the rules as written? Why was I told that my routings (KCY-LAX-PDX-MOT) was illegal?


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## Ryan (Aug 13, 2014)

It's not in the rules as written.

Because KCY-MOT isn't a published routing. I can understand AGR wanting to be firm on the rules in the case of an unpublished routing. Doubly so when there's a significantly shorter routing that isn't a circle trip.

ATN-CHI has one published routing. An exception to the circle trip rules makes sense here, since that's the only published route.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2014)

I never really enjoyed the magic 8-ball that preceded Anthony and find the current rules much more predictable. I'm not a good bullshitter so I'd rather everything be on the up-and-up from the start. The only major issue I have at the moment is the lack of permitted stopovers in combination with Amtrak's horrible schedule keeping. Either adjust the schedule to allow more time, improve the timing as currently scheduled, or allow us to schedule our own stopovers at legal connecting points so we don't get burned.


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 13, 2014)

Still trying to figure out how I can book a trip from Schriever, LA to Detroit, or Milwaukee on a one zone award, but cannot do one to Toledo.

I have asked for a clarification but get no response, other than the computer says no.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2014)

Railroad Bill said:


> Still trying to figure out how I can book a trip from Schriever, LA to Detroit, or Milwaukee on a one zone award, but cannot do one to Toledo.
> 
> I have asked for a clarification but get no response, other than the computer says no.


Have you tried talking to Anthony aka AGR Insider on Flyertalk?


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## Ryan (Aug 13, 2014)

It appears as though the connection from the Texas Eagle to the Cap or LSL aren't in the system.

That is something that Anthony should be able to fix (more correctly "ask Operations to fix and hope they do so").


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## William W. (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm just glad that we don't have to deal with this:

http://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/skymiles/2015-program/2015SMP-award.pdf


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## the_traveler (Aug 13, 2014)

I do. I'd love to travel on Amtrak from the US to Europe!


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## Ispolkom (Aug 13, 2014)

RyanS said:


> It's not in the rules as written.
> 
> Because KCY-MOT isn't a published routing. I can understand AGR wanting to be firm on the rules in the case of an unpublished routing. Doubly so when there's a significantly shorter routing that isn't a circle trip.
> 
> ATN-CHI has one published routing. An exception to the circle trip rules makes sense here, since that's the only published route.


If it's not in the rules as written, how do you know what you write is true? I'm not even sure that "true" is the right word, since I'm not sure it matters what the correct answer is. Rather, it only matters what the AGR agent on the phone will do. We all know that different agents claim different things, and I do not see how you or I can credit one claim (the one *crescent2 *got) as correct, and another (the one I received) as incorrect.

In any case, KCY-MOT was a published route when I booked it, and it was a published route when I was told it was illegal. It only isn't a published route now because Amtrak broke the Portland connection when it changed the Empire Builder schedule. It's exactly the same situation as *crescent2*'s (the only published route was a circle trip), but I got a very different response.


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## the_traveler (Aug 13, 2014)

Anthony had *SPECIFICALLY* used the PDX example when he was describing a circle trip! You can't get much more official than that in AGR!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> Anthony had *SPECIFICALLY* used the PDX example when he was describing a circle trip! You can't get much more official than that in AGR!


Is it *SPECIFICALLY* written into the rules or are we back to the magic eight ball every time we call?


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## Ispolkom (Aug 13, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> Anthony had *SPECIFICALLY* used the PDX example when he was describing a circle trip! You can't get much more official than that in AGR!


But what's the difference? *Crescent2* goes from Central Zone to Eastern Zone to Central Zone on a published route because you can't have an overnight layover in New Orleans. I go from Central Zone to Western Zone to Central Zone on a published route because you can't have an overnight layover in Chicago. The two cases seem identical to me. The fact that Anthony said that the KCY-CBS routing was not bookable applies to the first case just as well as it does to the second.


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 13, 2014)

RyanS said:


> It appears as though the connection from the Texas Eagle to the Cap or LSL aren't in the system.
> 
> That is something that Anthony should be able to fix (more correctly "ask Operations to fix and hope they do so").


I sent a request to AGR Insider last winter, but as of yesterday no changes had been made.. :unsure:


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## crescent2 (Aug 13, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> > It's not in the rules as written.
> ...


Isp, I'm not familiar with your routing, but if it's exactly the same situation as mine, I don't see how they could refuse it.

Our routing was a published one.

The thing with my trip is, if they didn't allow that routing, we couldn't have gone at all. The NOL routing isn't allowed, so if our routing wasn't allowed either, it really would have turned into a true "you can't get there from here" scenario. I just can't imagine they'd refuse to book it, or require a three-zone award when ATN and CHI are both in the same zone. This is not something the passenger can avoid or has any choice about.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I don't think I got an uninformed agent. I even asked, "Is starting in Anniston OK?" I would think, since it's the only way to get "from here to there," that it is officially allowed. We weren't re-entering a zone by choice just to get more train time as some circle trips are; it's the only way to get there (other than the forbidden NOL routing, which would really make more sense imo except possibly for the overnight layover.)

I know what the rules say, but I just don't see anything unusual about our routing being allowed. What would the alternative be? Just my thoughts on the experience.


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## Ryan (Aug 13, 2014)

I didn't know that KCY-MOT used to be published.

If it was published at the time you booked it, and it had been removed when you were "sternly talked to", that makes perfect sense.


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## jebr (Aug 13, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> Anthony had *SPECIFICALLY* used the PDX example when he was describing a circle trip! You can't get much more official than that in AGR!


I thought it was the KCY - CBS via PDX that was the example. That doesn't disqualify every routing through PDX. (In fact, Anthony has specifically said that if a connection to the Builder was guaranteed before the schedule change, it's still bookable as a single reward with an overnight in PDX at the customer's expense.)


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## jebr (Aug 13, 2014)

RyanS said:


> I didn't know that KCY-MOT used to be published.
> 
> If it was published at the time you booked it, and it had been removed when you were "sternly talked to", that makes perfect sense.


It was only removed because all connections from the CS to the Builder were broken. If that connection being broken was the problem, it should have been that an overnight is required, not that it's not valid.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 13, 2014)

crescent2 said:


> The thing with my trip is, if they didn't allow that routing, we couldn't have gone at all. The NOL routing isn't allowed, so if our routing wasn't allowed either, it really would have turned into a true "you can't get there from here" scenario. I just can't imagine they'd refuse to book it, or require a three-zone award when ATN and CHI are both in the same zone. This is not something the passenger can avoid or has any choice about.
> 
> I have no way of knowing for sure, but I don't think I got an uninformed agent. I even asked, "Is starting in Anniston OK?" I would think, since it's the only way to get "from here to there," that it is officially allowed. We weren't re-entering a zone by choice just to get more train time as some circle trips are; it's the only way to get there (other than the forbidden NOL routing, which would really make more sense imo except possibly for the overnight layover.)
> 
> I know what the rules say, but I just don't see anything unusual about our routing being allowed. What would the alternative be? Just my thoughts on the experience.


I'm not in any way implying or suggesting that you did anything wrong or underhanded, and I apologize abjectly if I gave that impression. I think that the agent made a reasonable accommodation, given the skeletal nature of the Amtrak network.

I get a little hot under the collar, though, when I

1) am given a rule that circular routes are forbidden,

2) am told by AGR Insider: "Circle trip rule stands as written. . . . going from central zone to western zone, then back to central zone, cannot be done on the same redemption," 

3) have an agent tell me that such a routing I did book was illegal and 

4) find that, well, circular routes aren't always forbidden.

I preferred it when AGR up front about being arbitrary and capricious. 



jebr said:


> I thought it was the KCY - CBS via PDX that was the example. That doesn't disqualify every routing through PDX. (In fact, Anthony has specifically said that if a connection to the Builder was guaranteed before the schedule change, it's still bookable as a single reward with an overnight in PDX at the customer's expense.)


Actually, it was an attempt to book a trip from Minot to Denver with the PDX overnight that led to my stern talking to. Don't ask me why they looked through my upcoming reservations while denying that a) MOT-PDX-SAC-DEN was ever published (this, while DEN-SAC-PDX-MOT was still a published route), and b) that the PDX overnight was even allowed.

I gave up and flew on Frontier, which now goes direct from Minot to Denver. I'm sorry I bothered arguing with the agent and her supervisor about the PDX overnight. In the end I didn't get my trip to Denver, I expect complications with my November trip from Kansas City, and I'm sure there is a nastygram now attached to my account which will make future AGR redemptions interesting. I should have known better.


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## Ryan (Aug 13, 2014)

Well that is a load of crap, since DEN is a border city the circle rule doesn't have anything to do with it. It's a 2 zone award, Central to Western.

As far as the EB to CS connection not being published, that shouldn't matter. Anthony has given explicit guidance that overnights coming off of the Empire Builder are allowed.


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## jebr (Aug 13, 2014)

Ispolkom said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > I thought it was the KCY - CBS via PDX that was the example. That doesn't disqualify every routing through PDX. (In fact, Anthony has specifically said that if a connection to the Builder was guaranteed before the schedule change, it's still bookable as a single reward with an overnight in PDX at the customer's expense.)
> ...


Sorry, I meant the example that Anthony gave as a "forbidden circle trip" was KCY - CBS via PDX, not your specific trip.

But yes, MOT - DEN should be allowed. That's central to western, for one, and is available with the PDX overnight on your dime.


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## crescent2 (Aug 14, 2014)

This is the first time I've used the phone app, so I hope this posts in the correct place.

I didn't take any of your posts as being critical of me so certainly no apology is needed. I guess the point I was trying to make is that if the routing is the only choice available, it shouldn't matter if it reenters a zone.

I am also trying to figure out why you would get a stern talking to if the trip you booked was a published route. I hope I did not come across as being critical of you because that was not my intention. I'd feel the same way you do if I had received that phone call.


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## NW cannonball (Aug 14, 2014)

William W. said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> > William W. said:
> ...


Impaired? Probably. If you think that "frequent flier" or "AGR" points constitute an obligation on the part of the airline or Amtrak --

Think again. Read the "Terms" .

No way is any airline, or Amtrak, going to go out of its way to provide any extra services to points-holders other than what they've promised. And they never even promised that.

Maybe, for high-rollers.

Yeah - Amtrak doesn't provide the booking capabilites you or I might want.. but they never promised that.

So, that's why I said "impaired" --because anyone who thinks that a "reward program" should add services -- has no clue.

That's why I said "impaired"


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## William W. (Aug 14, 2014)

Not sure which part of my post says that I think it is an obligation. All I've done is make a suggestion for improvement. I'm not sure why you're being an ass towards me.

Online booking seems like a good improvement all around. It makes customers happier, and would reduce labor costs.

Unless you stop being an ass towards me in future posts, I suggest that you stop replying to mine.


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## the_traveler (Aug 14, 2014)

Please I ask for all posts to be civil and friendly to all AU members. Thank you!


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## William W. (Aug 14, 2014)

I'm still not sure what I did to earn that person's disrespect. I've not done anything to provoke his rudeness, nor do I deserve it. I'm all for civil discourse online. If you wouldn't say something to someone is person, you shouldn't say it to them online. That being said, I will call out those who, for no other reason than apparently wanting to be a *insert descriptive word here*, are unnecessarily rude, or post hurtful things.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, let's talk about trains!


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 16, 2014)

This is an internet forum. We have discussions. Discussions are not always civil because we have emotions. If you state opinions you will sometimes hit nerves. It's just life. Chill.


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