# A trip from hell,



## Green Maned Lion (Dec 8, 2011)

I have been an avid train rider for many years- twenty in fact - and am a major supporter of inter-city and long-distance trains in this country, as an important part of our infrastructure. For most of those years, I have also been a supporter of Amtrak and its management, but my last trip changed my mind somewhat.

I have long accepted that things can and do go wrong, but my trip this November wasn’t irritating because of what went wrong, but rather Amtrak’s responses to what went wrong. Many of my trips in the past on Amtrak have been the result of pure leisure travel, such that missing time at my destination would be unpleasant, but not disastrous.

This trip was different- I had to get to my cousins Bar Mitzvah, an event I was truly anticipating. With that in mind, I built a cushion of nearly 24 hours into my booking to ensure I would get there on time. It would prove inadequate.

My father and I left Trenton on time aboard Regional 148 enroute to Washington D.C., which we arrived at about 4 minutes late. We enjoyed the facilities on offer at the Club Acela, and boarded number 29, the Capitol Limited on time. We were in sleeper and found ourselves to be in a well turned out refurbished Superliner I. The train departed Washington about a minute late, and we enjoyed a reasonably tasty meal in the dining car served on real china before turning into bed.

We arrived into Chicago Union Station about an hour late, which given the nature of connections I deemed acceptable. We boarded number 5, the California Zephyr, on time and departed roughly on time as well. We enjoyed a tasty dinner- actually, I had an excellent Duck L’Orange - and we headed to bed. Up to this point, the trip was nice. It bore no resemblance to the horror which was to follow.

About 30 minutes after departing Ottumwa, Iowa the train ground to a halt. Five minutes later, the conductor made an announcement that there was a bridge fire up ahead and that we would be waiting here some time. Fortunately, my father and I had already requested our beds turned down for the night. Maybe twenty minutes later the conductor told us the gory details- the fire was in Theyer, Iowa, some 75 miles away, and the freight trains had backed up that far.

Maybe 35 minutes later, the conductor informed the passengers that we were going to be proceeding to a siding up ahead where the engines would be run around the train and placed on the other end. The conductor didn’t know if that meant we were going to go back to Ottumwa, just that the powers that be had declared they were to move the engines to the other side of the train.

Meanwhile, our sleeping car attendant, a lazy woman largely not present up to this point, let herself be known. She wanted to “save us the trouble of having to be woken up” and so refused to put down passengers beds. She proceeded to continue making announcements until I finally told her I was trying to sleep, as were other passengers- sitting up, since she refused to let them put their beds down.

By this point, the train had pulled into the siding and the conductor announced that we would be losing head end power for “about twenty minutes” as they ran the power around to the other end. With that, power was cut and the train plunged into a darkness that would last close to two hours. Fortunately, this did result in the attendant no longer making announcements, and I fell asleep.

The conductor made an announcement when the power had finished being ran around, explaining that they had “switching trouble.” Naturally, this woke me up. Perhaps 30 minutes later, we started moving, and the attendant finally told us that the rumor was we were going back to Chicago, and so she would now let us “poor dears” get some sleep by putting our beds down for us. How kind.

My response to that rumor was, based upon seasoned understanding of Amtrak management and operating procedure, and I quote, “Nah.” I assumed that she and the rest of the train crew would be returning to Chicago with the passenger load from train 6, while train 6 would become train 5 and head back to Frisco out of Lincoln or Omaha.

As we approached Ottumwa, we found out that our conductor was going to be getting hoglawed shortly. In fact, we made it with two minutes to spare. At that point, they opened the doors and let some passengers who were anxious for a cigarette out, and also made it official that we were going back to Chicago.

Panicking that I might miss my cousins Bar Mitzvah, my dad and I briefly attempted to rent a car from Enterprise, but this proved fruitless. I spoke briefly with the conductor, who admitted to me that a bus bridge had been preposed, but he got the impression that management hadn’t really worked that hard at finding busses before they gave up.

We returned to Chicago, finally getting in around 10 AM the next morning due to difficulty in finding crew to dog catch us. Through a ticket agent I know at Amtrak Chicago, Jennifer V., who I wish to commend strongly for her help both at this point and later in the report, managed to help me book us on to #3, the Southwest Chief, to La Junta, where my father and I rented a car to drive to Colorado Springs, the final destination we were heading to via Amtrak and Front Range Express.

This was a wise decision, as the rerouted California Zephyr ended up getting into Denver around 2pm the next day. We got into La Junta about 2 hours late, and while missing my cousins Torah portion, we managed to see the rest of the ceremony.

I had an entertaining time in Colorado, including a ride up to Pikes Peak on the Cog rail, and then we were bound back to Denver, where the California Zephyr pulled in an hour and a half late, and started us back to Chicago. The trip was largely uneventful, we had a very good sleeping car attendant, although we lost an additional two hours as we approached Chicago.

At that point, more insanity occured. The late, about to misconnect with train 30, train 6 was held on a one way back up siding to for the number 5 Zephyr, and then again as it neared Chicago, it was held for the #3 Chief. It pulled into Chicago 15 minutes after train 30, for which it had over 50 connecting passengers, was scheduled to leave. They failed to hold it.

No sleeping cars were available on 48, terrible for both my bad back and my fathers bad back. I informed Amtrak “Customer Service” of our bad backs and they offered to put us up overnight, although no guarantee of sleeping space was offered. Unfortunately, both my father and I had work we needed to get to, and so we couldn’t use that option.

Fuming, and ready to kill any Amtrak employee that looked at me cross eyed, I went to the ticket counter to get us re-ticketed on 48. The agent I got was none other than Jennifer V., who went to considerable effort and energy talking to management attempting to find some way we could get some sort of sleeping accommodation over night through some opening at some point on the trip. She failed, but the degree of effort with which she attempted to serve us calmed me down, and reminded me that Amtrak employees come in only two flavors: excellent, and terrible.

After this, we were reminded of this more strongly by an obnoxious and arrogant Metropolitan Lounge employee. We asked to be given priority boarding for the coach car. That this was refused was not the issue. The obnoxious and sarcastic attitude was. I praise Jennifer again for calming me down, or I might be facing a murder rap via manual strangulation.

We boarded 48 and found two seats, and other than my keeping half my coach up with my snoring (if any of you were on that train, I sincerely apologize), the night passed without event, and forbearance was granted to us by grace of God on our backs. The trip continued to pass relatively uneventfully until lunchtime came.

The lunch was edible. But our waiter not only looked a bit like Will Smith, he seemed to think that actors obnoxious attitude on screen was exactly what passengers want. He was mistaken, I assure you. His name was Miles. I brush off things like that, but one of our table mates took considerable offense to Miles mocking his Caribbean accent.

My father took care of my lunch bill (Thanks, Dad), settling this up with the LSA. Why is this detail relevant? Because maybe 45 minutes later, Miles marches up to me halfway across the train, interrupts my conversation with an older gentlemen in which we were fixing the US economy, and tells me that I can’t “steal from Amtrak”. After insisting that my father paid my bill, and telling him where to find my father so he can ascertain that the bill was infact paid, Miles insisted that I come with him to point out my “so-called father.”

I admit I was having a bad trip, and I shot out of my seat saying something to the effect of “I have had it with stupid, incompetent, obnoxious ****ing Amtrak employees,” and marched off towards my father as Miles muttered behind me, “Yeah, sure, I’m an incompetent, obnoxious Amtrak employee.” At least he realized it. When I got to my dad who produced my receipt, Miles muttered an apology insincerely. I demanded his full name and Employee number. He directed me back into the dining car.

The LSA refused to give me the information requested, instead hoping to bribe me with a desert or a drink or something. Begging me not to report the louse. No. I didn’t want anything. I don’t need his employee number to report him, and report him I shall.

I don’t blame Amtrak for the bridge fire. That is not their fault. I blame them for not bussing us. I blame them for the “it doesn’t matter when you get there” attitude. I blame them for failing to try their best to get us their on time and run their system properly. I blame them for both allowing outbound trains priority and not holding the Capitol Limited for a short period of time. I blame them for hiring and not firing obnoxious, incompetant, stupid employees.

Amtrak needs a god damned overhaul from the top on down. Not only that, NARP doesn’t do enough to promote the kind of effective, efficient, and punctual long distance rail system our country needs. I’d say NARP needs an overhaul, but its too poisoned. I agree with Jim Cameron: Bunch of foamers. I am going to found a nationwide passenger transit advocacy organization.


----------



## rrdude (Dec 8, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I have been an avid train rider for many years- twenty in fact - and am a major supporter of inter-city and long-distance trains in this country, as an important part of our infrastructure. For most of those years, I have also been a supporter of Amtrak and its management, but my last trip changed my mind somewhat.
> 
> I have long accepted that things can and do go wrong, but my trip this November wasn’t irritating because of what went wrong, but rather Amtrak’s responses to what went wrong. Many of my trips in the past on Amtrak have been the result of pure leisure travel, such that missing time at my destination would be unpleasant, but not disastrous.
> 
> ...


WOW! Of course sorry to hear about your bad experiences, but guess what GML, you weren't alone. (Yeah, yeah, misery loves company and all that crap) but just think of all the FIRST TIME Amtrak riders, who are also LAST TIME Amtrak riders.

I couldn't agree with you more on your points, both positive and negative. How the Hell any organization can retain an employee who accuses their guests of stealing, in such a demeaning way, is beyond me. IF I were running Amtrak's HR department, I'd place his picture on a poster, with his "wisecracks printed below him" and make him a true poster child, for how NOT to behave.


----------



## jb64 (Dec 8, 2011)

Not only that, but if you were new to this forum, there are those here who would have insisted that you did not understand something or that you were not flexible enough or that you went in to the trip with unrealistic expectations. Trips sometimes go bad. Sorry you had such a bad trip and you should report those in the service industry who provide no service or bad service. Yes, Amtrak is transportation but LSA, SCA, dining car attendants are actually service employees. Amtrak will never be what we all would like it to be as long as it continues to accept and condone incompetence.


----------



## Misty. (Dec 8, 2011)

I feel bad just reading about this trip... and it solidifies the reasoning behind why I don't think I'm entitled to a voucher for only a bustitution on part of my upcoming trip to TX for the mini-Gathering. Sure, I'll be up early by my warped standards to connect to the bus, but stuff happens, and I'm understanding enough. This, though... very inexcusable in its execution after the annoying but unavoidable event that started the chain reaction.


----------



## guest (Dec 8, 2011)

My wife and i were also on that train, but in coach as we where only going to Osceola. IIRC, the attendent in our coach had told us that they had tried to get busess but were unable to find enough for all the passengers. Fortunately our attendent was very nice. We got off at Ottumwa and got a hotel room then rented a car to get to Osceola to pick up our car.

This was our first long distance train ride. We had taken the CZ from Osceola to Denver, stayed a couple of days then rented a car to go to La Junta to catch the SWC to Galesburg to then catch the CZ back to Osceola.

Green Maned Lion, maybe you got the car that we had rented to get from Denver to La Junta to get on the Southwest Chief.


----------



## thi ie1rain (Dec 8, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I have been an avid train rider for many years- twenty in fact - and am a major supporter of inter-city and long-distance trains in this country, as an important part of our infrastructure. For most of those years, I have also been a supporter of Amtrak and its management, but my last trip changed my mind somewhat.
> 
> I have long accepted that things can and do go wrong, but my trip this November wasn’t irritating because of what went wrong, but rather Amtrak’s responses to what went wrong. Many of my trips in the past on Amtrak have been the result of pure leisure travel, such that missing time at my destination would be unpleasant, but not disastrous.
> 
> ...


I am the GML's dad. It's all true, unfortunately. Fortunately, our backs survived.


----------



## jdcnosse (Dec 8, 2011)

I'd definitely be requesting plenty of vouchers for travel/dining/ etc because no one should have to go through all that, and not be compensated.


----------



## Everydaymatters (Dec 9, 2011)

In reading this, your sleeper attendent obviously needs to be re-trained. It sounds like she's trying to cover up her laziness with sweetness saying "saving you the trouble" and "poor dears". The experience with Miles was inexcusable. Why is a person like that allowed to deal with the public? Yours was more than likely not the first run-in he's had with passengers. In the private sector he would have been fired immediately. I'm now curious to know how Amtrak handled your complaint about him. A small part of your sad experience was at the Chicago Metropolitan Lounge. I had thought, hoped, the problems there had been resolved, but apparently they haven't.

Sorry to hear all this GML. As RRDude pointed out, Amtrak keeps losing potential future riders because of experiences like this.


----------



## lthanlon (Dec 9, 2011)

Instead of "Happy Feet Two," maybe Amtrak should be promoting "Atlas Shrugged."


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 9, 2011)

GML, sometimes I think we may disagree on almost everything, and that the few things we _do_ agree on are for completely unrelated reasons, but I'm with you 100% on this thread. Even worse is that nothing in your post shocked or even mildly surprised me. I've seen much of the same myself over time, although not necessarily directed towards me, and that's _without_ any bridge fires!



lthanlon said:


> Instead of "Happy Feet Two," maybe Amtrak should be promoting "Atlas Shrugged."


Ouch! :lol:


----------



## pennyk (Dec 9, 2011)

I am sorry to hear about your bad experience. So far I have been extremely lucky on my current trip. I am on day 10 of a 14 day trip and so far so good. In Canada, there was a freight derailment that delayed the Canadian and VIA handled it very well, but not perfectly - but good enough.


----------



## acelafan (Dec 9, 2011)

Wow, so sorry to hear about the awful trip. When amtrak is good it's wonderful. But when it's bad it's truly awful. I hate to say it but it's just not reliable. But 24 hours of padding still not being enough is unacceptable. Period.

And I can verify your experience with Miles. Obnoxious, arrogant and poor service. He should be fired and his supervisor reprimanded for allowing it to happen.


----------



## guest (Dec 11, 2011)

Wow! That Miles jerk is someone I had determined to put out of my mind forever after a horrible dining experience due to him==and I do hope never to lay eyes on him again if I ever decide to take another Amtrak LD train.

Our experiences on the CZ were up and down, and that's the problem with Amtrak: incredibly unpredictable with its service. Amtrak is like the post office, either very pleasing or a complete turn=off, and there's no telling which scenario you're going to get.

With the post office, you fume but the money is in the dollars. With Amtrak, the money is in the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, depending on time of year and accommodations, and there is unfortunately a growing number of riders who will never return because they are not foamers, nor irrepressible train enthusiasts, nor bearers of tens of thousands of AGR points.

Given the nation's economic state and the dismal outlook for federal budgets during the next five years, Amtrak could well go under as a national system.

And I would no longer feel compelled to shed a tear.


----------



## acelafan (Dec 11, 2011)

guest said:


> Wow! That Miles jerk is someone I had determined to put out of my mind forever after a horrible dining experience due to him==and I do hope never to lay eyes on him again if I ever decide to take another Amtrak LD train.
> 
> Our experiences on the CZ were up and down, and that's the problem with Amtrak: incredibly unpredictable with its service. Amtrak is like the post office, either very pleasing or a complete turn=off, and there's no telling which scenario you're going to get.
> 
> ...


I don't think Amtrak will entirely go away, but I do think the LD trains are getting closer to being on life support...Amtrak may end up being just a corridor service in 5-10 years. Hope I am wrong about that.

In the short term the customer service needs to be more consistent and we riders need to report the bad apples in hopes that management has the backbone to address the problems.


----------



## PRR 60 (Dec 11, 2011)

acelafan said:


> ...
> 
> In the short term the customer service needs to be more consistent and we riders need to report the bad apples in hopes that management has the backbone to address the problems.


Amtrak has not addressed the problem in 40 years. Why would they start now?


----------



## Ryan (Dec 11, 2011)

I prefer to look at it the other way. They can't take care of issues that they don't know about, so if I get bad service and complain about it, I bear some of the responsibility for the crap service that person provides. Complaining takes hardly any enough time, and gives Amtrak the tools they need to take care of business.

Why wouldn't you complain?

Thanks for the story, GML. It's a shame that this kind of things happen.


----------



## guest (Dec 11, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I prefer to look at it the other way. They can't take care of issues that they don't know about, so if I get bad service and complain about it, I bear some of the responsibility for the crap service that person provides. Complaining takes hardly any enough time, and gives Amtrak the tools they need to take care of business.
> 
> Why wouldn't you complain?
> 
> Thanks for the story, GML. It's a shame that this kind of things happen.


I have complained numerous times and always get a voucher. But I have no sense, none whatsoever, that Amtrak takes all the complaints, collates them to see if there is a pattern for a particular individual or train, and institutes reprimands, retraining or anything that would bring systemic improvement.

I'd love to know if anyone has any insight or information into Amtrak management to the effect whether any executive action has been taken over the years to understand why there are so many vouchers dispersed, and ways to reduce, maybe even try to reduce them to nothing.

My fear is that Amtrak figures it solves the problems by being so generous with vouchers.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 11, 2011)

acelafan said:


> I don't think Amtrak will entirely go away, but I do think the LD trains are getting closer to being on life support...Amtrak may end up being just a corridor service in 5-10 years. Hope I am wrong about that.
> 
> In the short term the customer service needs to be more consistent and we riders need to report the bad apples in hopes that management has the backbone to address the problems.


By this time next year the Mayans may well be running it :unsure:


----------



## Cascadia (Dec 11, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your rotten trip GML! The worst part from what I understand, is that you missed a connection to a train with your sleeping accommodations by 15 minutes? And then they wouldn't let you priority board for your substituted coach seats on the replacement train? I don't like that. It would have been no trouble and a nice small gesture to take care of you that way . . . so simple, should have been a given.


----------



## rrdude (Dec 12, 2011)

You know, it really might not make a huge difference, but when I am really ticked off at Amtrak, especially when it comes to service issues, I copy the letter I send to customer service, directly to Boardman's office, and I ALWAYS hand-address the envelope to Boardman. (Or, current-Amtrak president)

While it may not _actually_ result in anything being done, I have _always_ received at least a notification that his office _received_ my correspondence.

I think a letter to Mr. Boardman, about employee "Miles" wouldn't hurt GML. 'Sides it always makes me _feel_ better, knowing that some miscreant has at least been reported to the president of their company......


----------



## Trogdor (Dec 12, 2011)

If you're going to write a letter to Customer Service/Boardman, I'd focus on the poor treatment in Chicago, and particularly the bad OBS employee on the Lake Shore and bad sleeper attendant on the Zephyr.

While I understand your frustration about being late/misconnecting, a few parts of that really appear to be outside Amtrak's control.

First, it doesn't matter what the conductor "thought" about the attempts, he wasn't personally involved in trying to scrounge up a bunch of buses for a trainload of people to take them from Ottumwa, IA to Lincoln, NE in the middle of the night. Amtrak doesn't own a fleet of buses and have a crew of bus drivers sitting around, and in certain parts of the country, it is not that easy to find a bunch on short notice.

Second, I know it must be extremely frustrating to miss a connection in Chicago by 15 minutes, but keep in mind (and virtually everyone on this forum knows) there is trackwork going on on the route of the Capitol Limited that has an absolute window. In order to ensure the train makes that window, there is a very short "maximum hold" time in Chicago. Again, everyone who regularly visits this forum should have known about that for five months. While your train may have arrived 15 minutes after the Capitol's scheduled departure, by the time you get people off the train, moved over, transfer luggage, etc., you could be talking about a 45-minute delay to 30. That puts him out of slot on the NS, which likes to dick these trains around any way they can (whether or not they were on time to begin with), and that risks missing the cutoff time in Cleveland which forces the buses in Pittsburgh.

Lastly, I don't know why you're blaming Amtrak for prioritizing outbound trains over the inbounds. Unless these delays occurred between Union Avenue and the bumping post at CUS, Amtrak doesn't have control over the dispatching. That's all BNSF. Why this comes as a surprise to anyone on this forum (especially one who has over 5,000 posts under his belt)...I don't know. It's the BNSF dispatcher's call, and Amtrak has no say in how it is handled. BNSF's tendency is to give priority to an on-time train over a late one (because their incentive payments are calculated based on a train being on time, and if a train is already "lost", they're going to give it the short end of the stick, every single time, vs. a train they still have a chance go "make").

So, to recap, absolutely complain about the poor service that you received on the train and at the station. But half the stuff you mention really was beyond Amtrak's control. You just got unlucky.


----------



## rrdude (Dec 12, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> If you're going to write a letter to Customer Service/Boardman, I'd focus on the poor treatment in Chicago, and particularly the bad OBS employee on the Lake Shore and bad sleeper attendant on the Zephyr.


My bad, Trog is right on, as usual, when stating the above. Short, concise, factual, and to the point correspondence, with names, ticket number, etc., heck GML, you know the drill, you are a businessman.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 12, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> ...virtually everyone on this forum knows...


Did you take a poll or something before making such a blanket statement? Considering that Amtrak Unlimited is not owned or operated by Amtrak I don't see how anything on these pages would let Amtrak off the hook.


----------



## rrdude (Dec 12, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > ...virtually everyone on this forum knows...
> ...


Gov. Perry, er, Newt, or whatever.........

I'm not speaking for Trog, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to the regular forum readers/posters, and as_* we all know*_ (I didn't take a poll, no




) GML is pretty well versed when it comes to how Amtrak "operates" (contracting RR's, chain of command, what they can, and cannot do..........)

When I re-read it, it seems as though GML is really just frustrated as hell about the lack of communication, and the results of supervisor's decisons (both BNSF, and Amtrak) AFTER the event that started the SNAFU-ball rolling.

I don't think there is a seasoned Amtrak rider alive, (generalization, calm down) who couldn't share some similar horror story, and the frustration level is often escalated, by what we the traveling public perceive as just plain ridiculous decisions....... Sometimes those decisions are "forced" by the host RR, or the situations, *but how Amtrak HANDLES and COMMUNICATES to their "guests", often leaves a lot to be desired.*

That's my take at least................. Maybe they should transfer "Miles" to customer service phone-support


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 12, 2011)

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good explanations for why things work this or that way with Amtrak here on Amtrak Unlimited. AU is a great resource for those curious folks who want to know the ins and outs and whys and wherefores. But if a given dispute happened to be reversed and a customer responds to Amtrak saying "This fan forum out here on the interweb claimed I could do this or that!" do you think Amtrak will give any credence to what is written here? I don't. As such I don't agree that a customer has no right to complain about some aspect of Amtrak's service simply because AU was able to come up with a possible explanation that may or may not match up with whatever Amtrak's actual position is. I trust that most of what I read on AU is nominally correct or is at least based in part on a valid point, but there are also times AU has had answers I've found to be contradictory to other equally reasonable answers or completely counter to my own information and experiences. If the OP wants to include every point of contention and leave Amtrak to either explain it or ignore it then I believe that's absolutely within their rights as a paying customer.


----------

