# Driver, Pilot, Engineer...?



## caravanman (May 18, 2015)

Hi,

Just came upon this item... : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-32758223

I know loco engineers are called pilots in India just to confuse matters further.

Ed


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## jis (May 18, 2015)

caravanman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just came upon this item... : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-32758223
> 
> ...


Not pilots. They are specifically called "Loco Pilots" or LP for short.. I have never heard them being called just "Pilots". That term is reserved for the flying kind like saxman.


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## caravanman (May 18, 2015)

And here's me thinking a saxman was a musician, not a flying airplane driver. 

Interesting though, as the Indian rail system was based on the British system, as to how the term became loco pilot there?

I worked for British Rail in my early days, and "to pilot" was a term used to mean act as a guide to a driver from a different region over your own tracks, as they would not have the knowledge of the signals, etc, rather like a ship pilot at a harbour.

Ed


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## jis (May 18, 2015)

The term "Loco Pilot" gained currency starting the late '70s as I recall. When the first Rajdhani Express was introduced in 1969. Mr. Toker and Mr. Craker who were the two (delightful and very friendly) Anglo-Indian engine drivers who operated the train (an EMD WDM4 Class from the Mughal Sarai Diesel Loco Shed powered the train then) between Howrah (Kolkata) and Gomoh Jn. on the then Eastern Railway, were still referred to as "Engine Driver" in the formal press and in informal conversations.

AFAIR even when we started IRFCA in the late '70s early '80s timeframe the "Engine Driver" term still had currency, but the "Loco Pilot" term was starting be heard and seen from time to time AFAIR. So it is a relatively recent phenomenon.

My guess is it might have had something to do with the fact that bus drivers decided to call themselves Pilots around that time too. Of course they were neither as well trained nor as disciplined as Engine Drivers then or even now (I am talking about India here).


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## chakk (May 18, 2015)

Time to return to use of the term "hostler", or does that only apply to persons driving locomotives within yards or engine servicing facilities.


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## railiner (May 19, 2015)

caravanman said:


> I worked for British Rail in my early days, and "to pilot" was a term used to mean act as a guide to a driver from a different region over your own tracks, as they would not have the knowledge of the signals, etc, rather like a ship pilot at a harbour.
> 
> Ed


The same meaning is used over here....when Amtrak trains operate over certain detours, the freight railroads will provide "pilot crews" to guide the Amtrak crews over them.

And all around the world, when ships call at various ports, local harbor and/or docking "pilot's" will guide the ship's crew to their berth.

In our bus operations, when buses are chartered to supplement a company's own fleet, sometimes a Company "pilot" driver will ride the charter to guide the charter companies driver, and handle ticket collection.


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## railiner (May 19, 2015)

chakk said:


> Time to return to use of the term "hostler", or does that only apply to persons driving locomotives within yards or engine servicing facilities.


The hostler only handles the movement of "light" locomotives around yards (not making up trains), or as said, around servicing facilities...regular engineers must be used to make up trains, even in yards.


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## jis (May 19, 2015)

In India ticket collection in buses and trams is done by the Conductor(s). On trains it is done by TTEs (Traveling Ticket Examiners). The equivalent of American Conductor on trains is the Guard, and he does not do any ticket inspection. Sometimes he is also referred to as Conductor Guard. Where that phrase comes from I don't know. I believe Guard comes from standard British practice.


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## GG-1 (May 21, 2015)

Aloha

The Disney Monorail Calls them Piolets.


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## railiner (May 22, 2015)

It's been so long since they were more or less phased out of existence, that I forgot to include airline "Flight Engineer's" in this discussion. Also they were sometimes called "Second Officer's", and typically had two stripes on their uniform sleeves and epaulet's....

Most of them were not qualified as pilots, and came from a mechanical background. They operated the 'side panel' on earlier airliner's, controlling and monitoring the various mechanical and electrical aircraft systems, including fuel tank management, pressurization, heating and air-conditioning, etc.

They were often able to make certain repairs to aircraft at remote fields, where Company mechanical forces might not have been available. The computer's and other automation put them out of business.....


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