# Crescent on the Ground at Slidell



## Ryan (Apr 20, 2011)

http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2011/04/amtrak_train_derailed_in_slide.html



> An Amtrak train derailed after crashing into an 18-wheeler carrying armored personnel carriers near the Textron plant on Front Street in Slidell Wednesday morning, authorities said.
> The truck driver was injured in the crash, along with three Amtrak crew members and two passengers, authorities said.


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## jis (Apr 20, 2011)

Ryan said:


> http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2011/04/amtrak_train_derailed_in_slide.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There goes two Viewliners, and maybe even a Diner offline for a bit! Sigh....


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## the_traveler (Apr 20, 2011)

I'd much rather be on an Amtrak train that "hits the ground" than in a plane that "hits the ground" from 30,000 feet!


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## Steve4031 (Apr 20, 2011)

The company of the truck driver should Pay the cost of repairing the damaged viewliners. How badly will this impact operations for east coast trains?


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2011)

Here's a picture that was just posted to the A_A yahoo group:






Doesn't look too awful, hopefully the damaged cars can quickly be returned to service.


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## jb64 (Apr 20, 2011)

Here is a slideslow taken. Doesn't look too bad until you get the last engine shot. That looks pretty bad.

http://www.wdsu.com/slideshow/news/27611277/detail.html#


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## the_traveler (Apr 20, 2011)

Doesn't look too bad. The locomotive and the baggage car got the worst of it. One Viewliner is tipped (but not too bad) but all other cars seem fine. I don't think it will have much impact at all.


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks, jb64. Looks like it was a wild ride up front.

Hope that the Engineer is OK.

Edit: There should be another locomotive up front that isn't picture, right? The article said 5 cars derailed (P42, P42, Bag, VL, VL)?


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## jb64 (Apr 20, 2011)

Hmmm, good point Ryan. Maybe more, better pictures will surface and show all the cars. It would be nice to see an aerial view.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2011)

Steve4031 said:


> The company of the truck driver should Pay the cost of repairing the damaged viewliners.


I really couldn't agree more. I hope their full costs (re-railing, shipping, repair, loss of use, administrative tasks, liability management, & litigation costs) are forced upon the company of the negligent trucker. In the case of a major carrier who can easily afford these expenses severe punitive damages should be added to ensure the cost is harsh enough to get their attention. I'm currently down on the Texas coast and being here reminds me of the tug that got lost and took out our bridge to South Padre Island. Instead of contacting the authorities the tug called the company and then just sat there as car after car flew off the critically damaged bridge and plunged to their deaths. In the end it was the taxpayers who had to fork over millions to finish repairing everything that a single inept tug company had destroyed. The taxpayers also had to pay to put up additional barriers to help prevent the next tug company from destroying the bridge all over again. I believe the tug companies should be forced to carry enough insurance to fix any infrastructure their tugs are physically capable of destroying and that the tug companies who use our developed waterways should have to pay for any barriers required to help keep our infrastructure safe from their inept tug captains.


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## JMA (Apr 20, 2011)

I was passenger on the train in coach just behind cafe car. As we neared Slidell station there were two major jolts before abrupt stop. Crew immediately came through explaining what happened and took charge. Amtrak people and local first responders have all been first rate professionals. I'm now on bus back to NOLA while others are on buses to Birmingham where they will board another train


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## Grandpa D (Apr 20, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> I don't think it will have much impact at all.


May require a detour for today's 19 and tomorrows 20. Meridian, MS to Jackson, MS and then the COLO route to NOL. Does require a wye turn at Jackson.


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## jb64 (Apr 20, 2011)

JMA said:


> I was passenger on the train in coach just behind cafe car. As we neared Slidell station there were two major jolts before abrupt stop. Crew immediately came through explaining what happened and took charge. Amtrak people and local first responders have all been first rate professionals. I'm now on bus back to NOLA while others are on buses to Birmingham where they will board another train


Thanks JMA. Did you see both engines? Were they as bad as the one pic looks?


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## Trogdor (Apr 20, 2011)

Today's arriving 19 will turn in Birmingham for #20 (passengers from the derailed train are being bussed to BHM). Tomorrow's train (departing NYP today) terminates in ATL and turns for 20.


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## nolatron (Apr 20, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Thanks, jb64. Looks like it was a wild ride up front.
> 
> Hope that the Engineer is OK.
> 
> Edit: There should be another locomotive up front that isn't picture, right? The article said 5 cars derailed (P42, P42, Bag, VL, VL)?


I think so. If you look at the first photo here:

http://www.wdsu.com/slideshow/news/27611277/detail.html

You see P42 #80 on the ground and a little bit of the other engine is viewable on the left side of the photo. Engine #80 is facing the highway.

Then in photo #2 you see the lead engine facing the plant. Can't make out the number though.


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2011)

I see that they added some pictures there. I can't make out the number either, looks like the second digit is a 2 maybe?


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## TVRM610 (Apr 20, 2011)

so sad to see the Crescent on the ground. while i'm glad it wasn't any worse it would have been hilarious if the locomotive had made it into the road. ha. (and of course i saw that with all respect and concern for the locomotive crew).


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## BobWeaver (Apr 20, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I see that they added some pictures there. I can't make out the number either, looks like the second digit is a 2 maybe?


Looks more like 97 or 107 to me(?)


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## had8ley (Apr 20, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Here's a picture that was just posted to the A_A yahoo group:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ryan;

The Mayor's Commissioner sent me multiple pix of the Textron crossing/#20 incident.If Alan would be so kind to post same you'll see two P-42's that'll be out of service for a while. I got a call from a non-RR buff immediately after it happened and she claims this crossing has no cross bucks nor gates or lights. I find this strange but can't get away to verify same at the present time.The engines caught the worst of the blow (Textron outfits armored personnel carriers with 4 inch steel plate) and I imagine the trucking company will own a 60 year old baggage car before it's all over. The Viewliners look OK from the few pix I saw.


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2011)

There were two engines, both now more or less at a 90 degree angle to the tracks.

And both no doubt heavily damaged!


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2011)

Here are the photos that Jay sent me:


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## Ryan (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow, that is one heck of a mess!

In the picture that I posted, you can see a warning sign, a cross buck and a stop sign at the tracks - don't know about the other side or if that's the side that the truck was coming from, though.

Looks like they're lucky that everything stayed upright!


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## GaSteve (Apr 20, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Wow, that is one heck of a mess!
> 
> In the picture that I posted, you can see a warning sign, a cross buck and a stop sign at the tracks - don't know about the other side or if that's the side that the truck was coming from, though.
> 
> Looks like they're lucky that everything stayed upright!


It is likely a private crossing (i.e. not on a public road) and is not required to have gates, at least it would not be required in Georgia.


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## Tracktwentynine (Apr 20, 2011)

You can see the crossing on Google Streetview. It's linked here: http://tinyurl.com/3cswoey

It appears to be guarded only by a crossbuck and a stop sign.


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## Michael061282 (Apr 20, 2011)

nolatron said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, jb64. Looks like it was a wild ride up front.
> ...


The other engine is 187 http://photos.nola.com/tpphotos/2011/04/amtrak_train_derailment_in_sli_17.html


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## TacoMan (Apr 20, 2011)

Those pictures bring back bad memories of the Sunset Limited wreck here in Alabama back in 93. My uncle was a first responder to that wreck and still doesn't like to talk about it very much.


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## had8ley (Apr 20, 2011)

As of 5 pm CST there were 16 injuries and six people remained in the hospital. Amtrak has been hard on injured employees~ I can't get any information other than this should have been Conductor Danny Thomas' run. Ironically, he could have retired last year.


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## JMA (Apr 20, 2011)

Yes, both engines had major damage. One was on fire for a short period and was leaking large amounts of diesel. I don't see them being ready for service again for quite some time - would doubt if the lead engine can be repaired. Luggage car took heavy damage on forward end. Sleeping cars derailed but did not flip over and should be ready upon being put back on rails. All other cars seemed fine from my point of view across the street from the wreck. Seemed to me that there was significant track damage, but Amtrak personnel told me repair crew was onsite within hour of event and that repair should not take over a day.

I talked to a couple of the Amtrak crew as we waited to be cleared to leave. As far as injures, I was told that two Amtrak engineers were OK with mostly bruises but no broken bones. The driver of the truck was reported to be in stable condition at that time (around 11 am this morning.) I heard that one passenger up front had suffered a heart attack, but I can't confirm this. Those were the only injuries I knew of that - although I do know that at least two people who had been in the coach car I was in asked to be taken to the hospital "Just to be sure." I think some growth in the number of injuries reported may be due to folks in that category.

Lucky we were in the town of Slidell, Louisiana when the truck pulled in front of us. -Slidell is a relatively affluent suburb just across the lake from New Orleans. At time of accident, we were about one mile from Slidell depot, and my first thought was that we had arrived and hit something there. Hats off for the way response was coordinated. Fire trucks and ambulances were on scene in less than 5 minutes and had the driver and other clearly injured persons on the way to the hospital in less than 10. Amtak crew was great at keeping us informed about what was happening and what the protocol would be from seconds after the collision until we boarded buses to either continue north or return to NOLA. ( I elected to come back to NOLA, which is home.)


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## TVRM610 (Apr 20, 2011)

Thanks JMA for the reports!

I would like to add a big hats off to ALL amtrak crew, this includes engineers, conductors, attendants, ALL OBS crew. These guys clearly responded in a professional way in the face of a SEVERE emergency. This is why Amtrak crew deserves respect. I would rather have someone who knows protocols, knows the route, and knows how to react in order to save lives than someone who always wins in the customer service department.

Whenever someone suggests that Amtrak should "get rid of rude conductors" in favor of ones that are "nice," it kinda irks me. Alot of these "rude" conductors know the route like the back of their hand, and have the logged on hours to know how to safely react in situations like today. Should Amtrak encourage and reward good customer service? Absolutely. But the priority needs to be safety, period.

So happy to hear JMA's reports of no major injuries to the engine crew, what a ride!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2011)

It may not look bad, but anytime those cars jackknife like that there's possibly major damage to the couplers, trucks, and any of the systems suspended under the chasis.

EDIT

I just saw the second page, good pictures from Jay, especially like to one of the man just taking in the scene.

Private crossings, IMHO, should be regulated just like public crossings. Maybe different in method, but similar in principle.


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I just saw the second page, good pictures from Jay, especially like to one of the man just taking in the scene.


First, just to be clear, Jay didn't take those pictures. Someone sent them to Jay and he in turn sent them to me.

As for that man taking in the scene, according to the title of that picture, that man is the mayor of Slidell a Mr. Drennan.


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## cpamtfan (Apr 20, 2011)

It may not appear to be too bad, but who knows how bad the structual damage may be to the baggage and Viewliner 62018.

The P42s look pretty torn up. It is pretty amazing what angles both engines ended up in.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2011)

Any idea of the speed the train was going at during the collision?


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## BobWeaver (Apr 20, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Any idea of the speed the train was going at during the collision?


The distance from the Textron plant to the Slidell Amtrak station is 6/10 of a mile, so I can't imagine that the train was going faster than 40-45mph.


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2011)

BobWeaver said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea of the speed the train was going at during the collision?
> ...


The fact that the train was already slowing for the stop at Slidell is without a doubt a saving grace in this collision. Had this accident occured elsewhere with the train running at 79 MPH, I've no doubt that the damage to the train would have been far worse and injurie counts much higher and more severe.

Not to downplay the significant damage that clearly was done and shown in the photos. Engines moving sideways down the rails isn't doing them a world of good. :0


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## Anderson (Apr 20, 2011)

Hope the driver learns _not_ to try and beat the gate again. *******.

Edit: I'm now wondering if there's damage to the track.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Hope the driver learns _not_ to try and beat the gate again. *******.
> 
> Edit: I'm now wondering if there's damage to the track.


Oh yeah, those locos probably ripped up a few ties during their final trip.

As for not trying to beat the train, he'll be lucky to get the chance to re-make his decision.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 20, 2011)

One million dollars of insurance is required to run a truck. Three million dollars policy if you hauling Hazmat.

Sure you can get more than the insurance, but best of luck collecting it. You might get lucky and get a large company that operators the truck, but the defense is the driver is the operator and has control of the truck at the time on the accident. Unless something is wrong on the company side your going to have fun get a reward out of the company. If its a small company well they just start a new one. Take about a day or two for the paperwork.

Glad to hear the crew reacted well.

Been to Slidell nice little town. Way too many places that just serving chicken. <_<


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## Tracktwentynine (Apr 20, 2011)

cpamtfan said:


> It may not appear to be too bad, but who knows how bad the structual damage may be to the baggage and Viewliner 62018.



Oh, one of the Viewliners was 62018? 

 

That was the car I rode in on the Silver Meteor just under two weeks ago. I snapped this photo of it on April 7 at Jacksonville. I hope it's back on the rails soon!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Hope the driver learns _not_ to try and beat the gate again. *******.
> ...


I don't think one single driver is the issue, especially considering that we read about this sort of thing all over the country. I'm more curious about who is hiring these people.



Just-Thinking-51 said:


> One million dollars of insurance is required to run a truck. Three million dollars policy if you hauling Hazmat.


A commercial truck can do far more damage than that, obviously. The law needs to be corrected to more accurately reflect the true potential for damage.



Just-Thinking-51 said:


> You might get lucky and get a large company that operators the truck, but the defense is the driver is the operator and has control of the truck at the time on the accident.


The paradox of that situation is that any trucking company wealthy enough to repair an entire train would also have more than enough money to beat Amtrak in court.


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## George Harris (Apr 20, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Hope the driver learns _not_ to try and beat the gate again. *******.
> 
> Edit: I'm now wondering if there's damage to the track.


No gates or flashers, BUT, the crossing is just outside of and within sight of the plant where the truckload originated. Anybody that works there or goes to and from there that is unaware of the railroad and that it carries quite a few fast trains, mostly freight, has the IQ of a cabbage.

The track is torn up from the point of derailment to the point where the first engine finally stopped. At that point the engine was roughly centered on the tracks, SIDEWAYS. Some of the pictures show torn up track. Not sure how far the train traveled after the impact point, but based on the pictures, it would appear to be less than 1000 feet and probably more than 500 feet.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 20, 2011)

> I don't think one single driver is the issue, especially considering that we read about this sort of thing all over the country. I'm more curious about who is hiring these people.


Way to go too far again Dax-- I was just referring to that driver who might not live, or walk, and if he does drive his CDL should be taken, burned, and shot into the sun.

I know the "problem" is more than one driver. :lol:


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Way to go too far again Dax-- I was just referring to that driver who might not live, or walk, and if he does drive his CDL should be taken, burned, and shot into the sun.


I'm pretty sure that driver's CDL is going to be long gone after something like this. I was simply making the point that losing a CDL or some limbs or even a Darwinian death sentence doesn't appear to be enough to prevent many of these sorts of accidents. If I understand the situation correctly the only options for a location like this are a completely unguarded crossing or a $100,000+ full fledged crossing gate. It would seem there might be a market for a simpler crossing system that would give ample warning to large and slow moving vehicles approaching private crossings that was cheap enough that a business near active tracks could easily afford it. It seems like it should be possible to piece together a simple alert system for a few thousand dollars that would be able to detect an approaching train from a reasonable distance and illuminate a warning light or something. Not as good as a full crossing gate but better than the horn alone, especially in cases where the truck has their stereo blasting or something.


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## bretton88 (Apr 21, 2011)

Let me summarize it this way. No one accused truckers of being the brightest bulbs in the lamp.


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## George Harris (Apr 21, 2011)

daxomni said:


> I was simply making the point that losing a CDL or some limbs or even a Darwinian death sentence doesn't appear to be enough to prevent many of these sorts of accidents. If I understand the situation correctly the only options for a location like this are a completely unguarded crossing or a $100,000+ full fledged crossing gate. It would seem there might be a market for a simpler crossing system that would give ample warning to large and slow moving vehicles approaching private crossings that was cheap enough that a business near active tracks could easily afford it.


There is a step down. It is simply crossbucks with flashing lights and bells. Maybe not cheap enough for most businesses. The cheapest of all is to have responsibilities at railroad crossings made absolutely unmistakable.


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## ACVitale (Apr 21, 2011)

According to recent news reports the truck driver was NOT a subcontractor and was an employee of Textron. Think deep pockets and good insurance.

I think the viewliners will be ok but, the 2 P42s and the baggage car are definately looking bad.

Also, This evening on the other side of the state a group of 4 people were walking on the tracks and one was killed (36 yr old woman) and another injured (19 year old man).

They were hit by another Amtrak train (but did not specify if the Crescent


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## AlanB (Apr 21, 2011)

ACVitale said:


> Also, This evening on the other side of the state a group of 4 people were walking on the tracks and one was killed (36 yr old woman) and another injured (19 year old man).
> 
> They were hit by another Amtrak train (but did not specify if the Crescent


The other accident according to the news story occured in Vinton, which would have been the Sunset Limited.

It couldn't have been the Crescent, since clearly #20 wasn't going anywhere, and #19 was to have terminated in Birmingham, Alabama.


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## had8ley (Apr 21, 2011)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Been to Slidell nice little town. Way too many places that just serving chicken. <_<


Sounds like somebody doen't like chicken. All you have to do is go INTO the north end of the Slidell depot to the *TIMES GRILL*

and get all the burgers and steaks you can put down...


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 21, 2011)

I think this is gonna screw stuff up for a few days.


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## George Harris (Apr 21, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I think this is gonna screw stuff up for a few days.


Probably not. You are talking NS here, not one of the northeastern public works full employment semi-welfare operations. If it is not back in service at slow speed by now, I would be surprised. By the end of today, almost certainly. Full speed by the end of the week, most likely.

just looked at teh update on nola.com. It had the following quotation from NS:



> Workers with Norfolk Southern, the company that owns the rails, were assembling replacement tracks next to the existing ones during the day. Company spokesman Rudy Husband said he expected the line to reopen Wednesday evening.


So, trains are most likely running through there NOW. Probably does not include today's crescent. Someone on here should be able to give the answer to that one.

And then there is this from this morning's Meridian Star:



> According to railroad officials in Louisiana, the train was approaching the Slidell station at about 25 mph when the accident occurred. The officials said this is a private crossing for the industries in the area and that no civilian traffic is allowed.


Teh second sentence may be wrong. (Both of them could be. After all this is a newspaper.) Looking at mapquest, this appears to be a public road, although a minor one.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 21, 2011)

had8ley said:


> Just-Thinking-51 said:
> 
> 
> > Been to Slidell nice little town. Way too many places that just serving chicken. <_<
> ...


What about coming over to your House Jay for some Free Food and Drink??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 21, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> Let me summarize it this way. No one accused truckers of being the brightest bulbs in the lamp.


Nice, thank you. :hi:


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## VentureForth (Apr 21, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> Thanks JMA for the reports!
> 
> I would like to add a big hats off to ALL amtrak crew, this includes engineers, conductors, attendants, ALL OBS crew. These guys clearly responded in a professional way in the face of a SEVERE emergency. This is why Amtrak crew deserves respect. I would rather have someone who knows protocols, knows the route, and knows how to react in order to save lives than someone who always wins in the customer service department.
> 
> ...


Now hang on there for jussa minnit, Mr.

From all practical accounts, this situation was handled MUCH better than most that are reported. The crew COMMUNICATED with authority and accuracy in a timely manner with the passengers. The passengers were able to (and actually required to) get off the train.

The horror stories we read about stem from uninforming crews and being a hostage on the train for hours without understanding why and what the next steps are.

So, yes, this crew was exceptional. The rule? Regrettably, I don't think so.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 21, 2011)

I disagree. There's a difference between an extended delay and a full derailment. It's unfair to judge the two in the same category. One is a matter of life and injury, the other a matter of comfort.


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## had8ley (Apr 21, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Just-Thinking-51 said:
> ...


No cluck on tonight's menu !!! Ya'll come on down...and the menu for tonight is:

TURTLE SAUCE PIQUANTE

FRIED ALLIGATOR TAIL

ALLIGATOR GARFISH BALLS~FRIED

FRIED FROG LEGS

NOL FRENCH BREAD

and to cap off a delightful meal; frog eggs in chocolate syrup. Jungle Jim Hudson will be your server and bartender extraordinaire. I can't guarantee what your drink will be but a little tip to Jim might get you some EverClear (190 proof.) I just cut the back three acres so there's plenty of room for everybody that would like to come :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Shanghai (Apr 21, 2011)

J*ay,*

*You forgot that famous Hot Pepper Sauce from Louisiana!! I thought it was served with every meal??*


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## jis (Apr 21, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> J*ay,*
> 
> *You forgot that famous Hot Pepper Sauce from Louisiana!! I thought it was served with every meal??*


Tabasco! Yeah


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## busboy (Apr 21, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Hope the driver learns _not_ to try and beat the gate again. *******.
> ...


Now now, there's no need to insult cabbage.


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## jis (Apr 21, 2011)

busboy said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Anderson said:
> ...


Cabbages of the world shall unite and rise in protest!


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## Ryan (Apr 21, 2011)

When did the Crescent start running with a Cabbage???? Can they not turn the train????


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## jis (Apr 21, 2011)

Ryan said:


> When did the Crescent start running with a Cabbage???? Can they not turn the train????


No no no.... the alleged cabbage was in the truck


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## Trogdor (Apr 21, 2011)

The cabbage may have been in the diner.

Anyway, those of you concerned about the Viewliners, worry not. The two derailed sleepers have new sets of wheels, and should be on tomorrow's 20 leaving NOL. The engines and baggage car...different story.


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## AlanB (Apr 21, 2011)

Good news about the Viewliners! 

Of course Amtrak can't exactly afford to lose 2 engines either.  I'm not sure how much things have improved since the big engine shortages of a month and two months ago, but even if things are better, this isn't going to help to improve things.


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## jis (Apr 21, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Good news about the Viewliners!
> 
> Of course Amtrak can't exactly afford to lose 2 engines either.  I'm not sure how much things have improved since the big engine shortages of a month and two months ago, but even if things are better, this isn't going to help to improve things.


Push comes to shove, I bet Amtrak could borrow a few P40s from NJT or Metro North. Specially the NJT ones are doing duty on RVL these days since there is no ACES. They could easily be subbed by PL42s of which NJT has plenty.

BTW, glad to learn that the front Viewliner did not suffer any underfloor equipment damage. From the pictures I was quite certain that the rear Viewliner was fine. There might be a light baggage car shortage for a bit too, until they can resurrect one from storage.

Of the engines, one of them looked in worse shape than the other. Don't remember which was which in the consist though.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Apr 21, 2011)

had8ley said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


YUMMAGE! I'm in!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Apr 21, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Good news about the Viewliners!
> 
> Of course Amtrak can't exactly afford to lose 2 engines either.  I'm not sure how much things have improved since the big engine shortages of a month and two months ago, but even if things are better, this isn't going to help to improve things.


Can they risk pulling the DEN and ABQ protect units out? What about the four they just sent up for PTC testing? It isn't good, but I don't see any real problem the loss of two P42s would be.

At least now Beach Grove has some new spare parts! Bright side, Alan!


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 21, 2011)

I'd say that baggage car is going to be scrapped. Any dissent?


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## had8ley (Apr 22, 2011)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Good news about the Viewliners!
> ...


I'm going out on a limb, as usual, but...the P42's have enough mileage on them that this summer will be a nightmare in break downs. Talk about rent-an-engine...


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## printman2000 (Apr 22, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> The cabbage may have been in the diner.
> 
> Anyway, those of you concerned about the Viewliners, worry not. The two derailed sleepers have new sets of wheels, and should be on tomorrow's 20 leaving NOL. The engines and baggage car...different story.


Just curious, where did you get that info?

Where did the Viewliner trucks come from? Did they have them in NO or were they shipped there. Or did they just change out the wheels themselves?


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## The Davy Crockett (Apr 22, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I'd say that baggage car is going to be scrapped. Any dissent?


R.I.P. BC


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## George Harris (Apr 22, 2011)

I may not be a prophet, but my guessing ain't bad.

a quote from http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2011/04/track_in_slidell_reopened_afte.html



> Repairs on the rails were completed and the line was reopened Wednesday night, Norfolk Southern spokesman Rudy Husband said.
> The Crescent will resume service to New York along those rails Friday morning, Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said.


The article includes a picture of the head end of a NS freight with the two Amtrak engines seen on the dirt off to the sides. The on the left facing the camera, the one on the right back to the camera.

Sounds like the Thursday southbound Crescent went through, at least as an equipment move if not in service.



George Harris said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is gonna screw stuff up for a few days.
> ...


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## Trogdor (Apr 22, 2011)

Thursday's SB Crescent (originating NYP on Wednesday) turned in Atlanta. Thursday's originating train is running through to NOL. Today's northbound is using the equipment (except for the engines and baggage car) off Wednesday's derailed train.


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## rrdude (Apr 22, 2011)

I love this picture of the two Amtrak P-42's sitting on either side of the track, in the dirt, while the NS Engine chugs by, it reminds me of when kids who misbehave have to sit in "time out".

"Sorry P-42's, no train for you to pull today............"


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## ACVitale (Apr 26, 2011)

Anyone who lives/works/is travelling near NOL know what the status of the 2 engines, baggage car that were damaged?

Are they still sitting to the side of the rails?

Any ideas how they will be transported to a repair/scrap facility?

Where will the send them? Beach Grove, Bear? I am assuming NOL...

Just wondering, Thanks


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## dlagrua (Apr 26, 2011)

With little to no extra equipment to spare this could be a large blow to Viewliner service on the Crescent. We are going to be on that train in early June and we are hoping for the best. Amtrak should be able to get (borrow) a spare engine or two, its anyones guess what they will do about the baggage car and we can only hope that the damage is as minor to the Viewliners as reported.


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## MattW (Apr 26, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> With little to no extra equipment to spare this could be a large blow to Viewliner service on the Crescent. We are going to be on that train in early June and we are hoping for the best. Amtrak should be able to get (borrow) a spare engine or two, its anyones guess what they will do about the baggage car and we can only hope that the damage is as minor to the Viewliners as reported.


I wouldn't be too concerned. From what I understand, the Viewliners rolled away from the scene on the rails, then went north on the next #20 as revenue equipment. Now what they did from there, I don't know, but if they ran revenue, I wouldn't expect them to be down for long, but this is JUST a guess, I do know know for sure one way or the other.


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## dlagrua (Apr 27, 2011)

Any updates? If the baggage car is really damaged that badly then Amtrak will need to replace it quickly. If it is damaged beyond repair couldn't they just rent a common (freight) boxcar and use it for baggage service until the new ones are placed in service?


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## GaSteve (Apr 27, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Any updates? If the baggage car is really damaged that badly then Amtrak will need to replace it quickly. If it is damaged beyond repair couldn't they just rent a common (freight) boxcar and use it for baggage service until the new ones are placed in service?


No:


 

Lack of HEP pass-thru

Wrong brake setup

Lack of high speed trucks

No crew access in-route


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## afigg (Apr 27, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Any updates? If the baggage car is really damaged that badly then Amtrak will need to replace it quickly. If it is damaged beyond repair couldn't they just rent a common (freight) boxcar and use it for baggage service until the new ones are placed in service?


Is Amtrak that tight on baggage cars? Amtrak will be running 3 baggage cars on the 40th anniversary Exhibit Train. Maybe when the Exhibit Train is finished with the tour, the baggage cars can be used in regular service until the Viewliner 2s are delivered.

It was reported that Amtrak will be returning 11 single level tran-dorms to service for the crews to use to free up revenue Viewliner I sleeper rooms. But I guess the Heritage trans-dorm can't used for baggage storage, even on a short term basis.

The one good piece of news for Amtrak in this accident is that the truck that clearly caused it was operated by Textron, a rather large defense contractor. Should have deep enough pockets for Amtrak to go after to recover the full costs of the accident.


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## had8ley (Apr 27, 2011)

printman2000 said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > The cabbage may have been in the diner.
> ...


Since the "Big Freeze" this winter Amtrak has taken equipment and shuffled it to NOL for thawing. With three LD trains terminating there, there is lots of work to be done when the train arrives. The engines are cut off and brought to the round house for servicing (I think the second shift at the R/H was cut off to supply more people to coach yard repairs)the train is then pulled through the car washer(which doesn't happen to some City cars from Seattle until they arrive in NOL) and backed into the working area. I've been to Sunnyside with the multitude of different equipment and tracks but this little NOL servicing area is one of the most efficeint I've run across. To answer your question I think I saw extra Viewliner wheel sets the last time I was at the shop. It was at night and I really didn't look that closely. I would love to bid in a job in the Chicago coach yard~ they don't even service the City when it's sunny and warm !!! :help:


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2011)

afigg said:


> The one good piece of news for Amtrak in this accident is that the truck that clearly caused it was operated by Textron, a rather large defense contractor. Should have deep enough pockets for Amtrak to go after to recover the full costs of the accident.


The paradox of deep pockets is that they can afford far more effective lawyers who can draw out the proceedings long enough to exhaust the ability of the plaintiff to remain competitive in the case. Defense contractors also tend to have far more friends in much more powerful positions than Amtrak has. I would expect Amtrak to initially suffer a financial hit and in the form of self-funded repair costs and legal fees as they pursue remedies that may be months or even years away if they ever come to fruition.


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## jis (Apr 27, 2011)

daxomni said:


> afigg said:
> 
> 
> > The one good piece of news for Amtrak in this accident is that the truck that clearly caused it was operated by Textron, a rather large defense contractor. Should have deep enough pockets for Amtrak to go after to recover the full costs of the accident.
> ...


The total amounts involved are so inconsequential that I would be extremely surprised if this is not settled rather quickly. Afterall why pay lawyers to keep something going the cost of settling which is relatively small.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2011)

How much are you expecting the settlement to be and what sort of time frame would you consider to be a quick resolution?


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## had8ley (Apr 27, 2011)

jis said:


> The total amounts involved are so inconsequential that I would be extremely surprised if this is not settled rather quickly. Afterall why pay lawyers to keep something going the cost of settling which is relatively small.


Wow, Jis, you sure put a lot of creedence into our legal system. There's a lot of questions to be answered before any settlement is put forth on the table. (Did the company request better crossing protection, did Amtrak/NS have any complaints on file of trucks fouling the main line?)The NS is pretty up tight about money and the derailment really didn't do major structural damage but it sure put a supreme kink into NS's freight schedule. NS=freight=$$$~ and don't let anyone get in the way. I was kidding my boarding school Villanova Law School roommate about the $175 an hour we pay our attorney. He just laughed and said, "I pay more for that at most lunches". His fees? $685 an hour and he's only a realty lawyer on Park Avenue..it would be interesting to see just how long this drags out. My money is on two years or better.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 27, 2011)

With Apologies to our Attorney Members, Shakespeare was right: "First We Kill All of the Lawyers!" :lol:

A Perfect Reminder of what's happened to our Country since we ended up with Too Many Lawyers!! (there are More in Austin than the Entire Country of Japan!  ) :help:


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> A Perfect Reminder of what's happened to our Country since we ended up with Too Many Lawyers!! (there are More in Austin than the Entire Country of Japan!


I'd rather have too many lawyers than live in a country with a 98% conviction rate, but maybe that's just me.


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## jis (Apr 27, 2011)

had8ley said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > The total amounts involved are so inconsequential that I would be extremely surprised if this is not settled rather quickly. Afterall why pay lawyers to keep something going the cost of settling which is relatively small.
> ...


Jay, my guess is this will get settled out of court. Neither side has much to gain in stretching this out. It will go to court only if there is a huge difference of opinion on what the settlement should be.

Having observed such things being handled from the inside albeit at a distance, it seems that there are much better uses for the extremely expensive legal staff than dicking around over this sort of a thing. Of course if there is a past history of animosity between the two parties which would cause them to behave irrationally, then all bets are off.


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## afigg (Apr 27, 2011)

daxomni said:


> The paradox of deep pockets is that they can afford far more effective lawyers who can draw out the proceedings long enough to exhaust the ability of the plaintiff to remain competitive in the case. Defense contractors also tend to have far more friends in much more powerful positions than Amtrak has. I would expect Amtrak to initially suffer a financial hit and in the form of self-funded repair costs and legal fees as they pursue remedies that may be months or even years away if they ever come to fruition.


I would argue that the political aspects would favor Amtrak. If Amtrak gets stonewalled by Textron, they can go to their political friends and put the heat on Textron as Amtrak - and NS - are clearly the injured parties here. With so much of their business involving the federal government, Textron probably is not going to be inclined to allow the situation to get bad publicity. They were damn lucky that the accident happened with the Amtrak train running at slower speeds because it was approaching a station.

But the matter may be left more to Textron's insurance company or agents than Textron itself. The matter will very likely be settled out of court in a few months once the damage assessments are all in. There is little to dispute as who is at fault. If I were NS and Amtrak, might also ask Textron to kick in money to put up improved grade crossing barriers and lights to keep this from happening again.


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## George Harris (Apr 28, 2011)

afigg said:


> I would argue that the political aspects would favor Amtrak. If Amtrak gets stonewalled by Textron, they can go to their political friends and put the heat on Textron as Amtrak - and NS - are clearly the injured parties here. With so much of their business involving the federal government, Textron probably is not going to be inclined to allow the situation to get bad publicity. They were damn lucky that the accident happened with the Amtrak train running at slower speeds because it was approaching a station.


The military is so much larger than Amtrak that depending upon "political friends" would insure Amtrak losing. The military's toliet paper budget probably exceedsd Amtrak's total budget.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 28, 2011)

Well, they do need special stealth toilet paper, you know.


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## had8ley (Apr 28, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Well, they do need special stealth toilet paper, you know.


And a 2 grand toilet to flush it down :lol:


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## dlagrua (Apr 28, 2011)

Amtraks immediate concern should be to get the full consist of the Crescent up and running again. As for a lawsuit I imagine that could go on for a while. It would involve Textron, Norfolk Southern and Amtrak. If there are enough credible witnesses, then the case should be able to be settled in short order. Otherwise questions like the maintenance and operation of the crossing gate, speed of the train and other mitigating factors could be introduced. If the crossing signal was in proper operation then the blame rests solely on the driver of the truck who may have tried to beat the train across the tracks. It is likely that the driver was given a sobriety test but who knows?


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## Ryan (Apr 28, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Amtraks immediate concern should be to get the full consist of the Crescent up and running again.


Who says that they don't?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 28, 2011)

daxomni said:


> How much are you expecting the settlement to be and what sort of time frame would you consider to be a quick resolution?


Hey Jis, I'm still waiting on this. 



afigg said:


> I would argue that the political aspects would favor Amtrak. If Amtrak gets stonewalled by Textron, they can go to their political friends and put the heat on Textron as Amtrak - and NS - are clearly the injured parties here.


I really couldn't disagree with you more on this. Whatever political power Amtrak ever had was never that strong and has only eroded further over time. Meanwhile military contractors have been at the very top of the political food chain for at least a generation. It takes wide exposure of gross negligence and criminal fraud for a military contractor to even get a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile Amtrak's budget gets dragged through the wringer just for having the gall to exist. Honestly I don't think you could find two companies at further ends of the political support spectrum. Keep in mind that any passengers harmed in this incident might have standing to sue NS, who could spend as little or as much time and resources defending themselves as they like and then simply send any judgement to Amtrak for payment. The more you learn about how passenger rail works in this country the more amazing it is that Amtrak exists at all. I would never assume that any serious accident would be a break-even event when it comes to Amtrak.



dlagrua said:


> If there are enough credible witnesses, then the case should be able to be settled in short order.


In the real world eyewitnesses are generally not that reliable, even when a dozen completely unrelated and disinterested parties witness the exact same event at the exact same time they will often completely contradict each other.


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## jis (Apr 28, 2011)

daxomni said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > How much are you expecting the settlement to be and what sort of time frame would you consider to be a quick resolution?
> ...


I have no intention of answering that. So please feel free to stop waiting


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 28, 2011)

jis said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni said:
> ...


So basically the following statement of yours was pulled out of thin air? :mellow:



jis said:


> The total amounts involved are so inconsequential that I would be extremely surprised if this is not settled rather quickly. Afterall why pay lawyers to keep something going the cost of settling which is relatively small.


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## had8ley (Apr 28, 2011)

This may have absolutely no bearing on this incident but I do want everyone to know that the Norfolk Southern is THE worst RR to work for/around that I know of. Its own workers call it the "**** Southern" and for good reason. Some time ago my son and I were waiting on # 19 to roll into Tuscaloosa. The NS had put out a rule that no trainmen could get off a piece of moving equipment without the equipment being fully stopped.We could hear # 19 coming around the curve by Bear Bryant stadium (University of Alabama). In the meantime the Tuscaloosa Local engine was pulling up to the depot to get a track warrant to follow # 19. The conductor got down just before the engine stopped~ maybe 1/2 mph. #19 was right in front of the engine and had an NS road foreman in the cab. The road foreman gave orders to the Amtrak engineer not to move until he returned. He had to walk about 8 car lengths to get to the depot to pull the conductor out of service on the spot. # 19 was delayed 20 minutes while this RFE finished his "important" business. After the RFE got back to the engines,the dispatcher called because three trains were delayed because of #19's twenty minute delay at TCL. The RFE picked up the radio and said, "Got rid of another one so just keep dispatching before you lose your job." Anybody want to apply for a job at NS ???


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## jis (Apr 28, 2011)

daxomni said:


> So basically the following statement of yours was pulled out of thin air? :mellow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Take it as you wish  I just work with (though not in) the legal department at my employer on other issues and have observed them operate under such circumstances. I am not going to say anything more about it.



had8ley said:


> This may have absolutely no bearing on this incident but I do want everyone to know that the Norfolk Southern is THE worst RR to work for/around that I know of. Its own workers call it the "**** Southern" and for good reason.


Is it true that Southern/Norfolk Southern was one the last railroads to install toilets in engines? They were of the opinion that a pail is all that is needed?


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## BobWeaver (Apr 28, 2011)

Sounds more like NS has a safety culture that it takes very seriously rather than it being "the worst" railroad to work for/around. I'd apply for a job with them any day if that's the case.


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## haolerider (Apr 28, 2011)

daxomni said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni said:
> ...


"Can't we all just get along?" Too much nit picking and rude and argumentative comments for my taste!


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 28, 2011)

Back in Jays heyday as a Hogger, when Men were Men, they didnt need no stinkin toliets on engines! I remember seeing lots of Railroad Men "Streaming" from the Trains as they rolled through the Yards out in West Texas where my Grandfather was a 40 year man with SP!!

And Ive read stuff about NS that names them as one of those places NOT fun to work along with Wal-Mart, Coal Mines,Mickey Ds, Donald Trump's Empire etc. etc.


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## jis (Apr 28, 2011)

jimhudson said:


> Back in Jays heyday as a Hogger, when Men were Men, they didnt need no stinkin toliets on engines! I remember seeing lots of Railroad Men "Streaming" from the Trains as they rolled through the Yards out in West Texas where my Grandfather was a 40 year man with SP!!


Hey! It is still that way in India. It is only recently that the newest diesels and electrics have started getting toilets installed in them I hear. But then again there are no laws in India that prevents trains from dumping on the tracks either, and indeed again only the newest of passengers cars have holding tanks. But then what with people and animals dumping around the tracks anyway, I don't know that it matters either way


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## dlagrua (Apr 28, 2011)

> "Can't we all just get along?" Too much nit picking and rude and argumentative comments for my taste!


Some peoples lives are so lacking, so empty and so shallow that they have nothing better to do than to *****, moan, complain, argue and find fault. I am happy to not be one of them.

" I finally realized that life was a game, the more seriously I took things, the harder the rules became".


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## jis (Apr 28, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> > "Can't we all just get along?" Too much nit picking and rude and argumentative comments for my taste!
> 
> 
> Some peoples lives are so lacking, so empty and so shallow that they have nothing better to do than to *****, moan, complain, argue and find fault. I am happy to not be one of them.
> ...


Hey! I resemble that!


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## Ryan (Apr 28, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> > "Can't we all just get along?" Too much nit picking and rude and argumentative comments for my taste!
> 
> 
> Some peoples lives are so lacking, so empty and so shallow that they have nothing better to do than to *****, moan, complain, argue and find fault. I am happy to not be one of them.
> ...


Well they do say that ignorance is bliss!!!


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## oldtimer (Apr 28, 2011)

jis said:


> Is it true that Southern/Norfolk Southern was one the last railroads to install toilets in engines? They were of the opinion that a pail is all that is needed?



Yes, a bucket with a plastic bag liner, and they were miserly with the liners. This was even true when they had crews of both genders!

:help: :blush: :wacko:


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## George Harris (Apr 28, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> Otherwise questions like the maintenance and operation of the crossing gate, speed of the train and other mitigating factors could be introduced. If the crossing signal was in proper operation then the blame rests solely on the driver of the truck who may have tried to beat the train across the tracks.


Look at the pictures. There were no flashers or gates. This crossing had only crossbucks and stop signs. There have been statements that this was not a public road at all, just access to the Textron plant. It appeasrs on Google Maps as a named street, but appears to serve only Textron and an electric substation. Regardless, if the railroad were to be considered as equivalent of a road, the driver failed to yield to crossing traffic at a stop sign.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 28, 2011)

BobWeaver said:


> Sounds more like NS has a safety culture that it takes very seriously rather than it being "the worst" railroad to work for/around. I'd apply for a job with them any day if that's the case.


In the rail industry, "Working Safely" is a code phase for a type of work stoppage. They have a rule book, written by the blood from lawyers hands that worked them ragged making sure that the family of those workers got as little just compensation for an accident as possible, and are now making sure that if it happens again they can point to it as a rule violation and not give them anything. I'm sure any of our retired T&E people would tell you I'm not exaggerating much.

There is nothing dangerous about a practiced professional rail worker disembarking from a barely moving piece of equipment. That RFE had it out for that employee, and found an excuse to relieve him of duty and stop his family from making ends meet.


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## had8ley (Apr 28, 2011)

George Harris said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Otherwise questions like the maintenance and operation of the crossing gate, speed of the train and other mitigating factors could be introduced. If the crossing signal was in proper operation then the blame rests solely on the driver of the truck who may have tried to beat the train across the tracks.
> ...


George you are right on target. As of 3:15 p.m today I got the straight skinny from the horse's mouth. The horse will remain unnamed and if anyone wishes to challenge these findings we'll see you in court with Textron. The crossing the truck was fouling did NOThave any crossing protection. The City of Slidell is on record as having contacted the State DOTD *and*the Norfolk Soutern RR for crossing protection at this intersection with the right of way. The NS had crosss bucks in Picayune, MS that they were supposed to be moved to this location but it never happened. This will be a very elongated battle, I promise.... h34r:


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## had8ley (Apr 28, 2011)

As a foot note the NS issued "potty bags"~ they had ID #'s on them. If someone found the need to use them and discarded them haphazardly and some farmer or towns person found one the ID # that was issued to the T&E person was looked up and they were pulled out of service.So much for lending out a potty bag.... :help:


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## Ryan (Apr 28, 2011)

I assume that this means that the crossing in this picture isn't the crossing in question, then (or the truck was approaching from the other side)?



Ryan said:


> Here's a picture that was just posted to the A_A yahoo group:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 28, 2011)

had8ley said:


> George you are right on target. As of 3:15 p.m today I got the straight skinny from the horse's mouth. The horse will remain unnamed and if anyone wishes to challenge these findings we'll see you in court with Textron. The crossing the truck was fouling did *NOT*have any crossing protection. The City of Slidell is on record as having contacted the State DOTD *and* the Norfolk Soutern RR for crossing protection at this intersection with the right of way. The NS had cross bucks in Picayune, MS that they were supposed to be moved to this location but it never happened. This will be a very elongated battle, I promise.


This sounds a lot more like the kind of extended legal battle I was expecting. Thanks for the update.


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## oldtimer (Apr 29, 2011)

daxomni said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > George you are right on target. As of 3:15 p.m today I got the straight skinny from the horse's mouth. The horse will remain unnamed and if anyone wishes to challenge these findings we'll see you in court with Textron. The crossing the truck was fouling did *NOT*have any crossing protection. The City of Slidell is on record as having contacted the State DOTD *and* the Norfolk Soutern RR for crossing protection at this intersection with the right of way. The NS had cross bucks in Picayune, MS that they were supposed to be moved to this location but it never happened. This will be a very elongated battle, I promise.
> ...



How about the witness with the unblinking eye, the video camera that is now almost a universal installation in P-42's. Was there a camera and was it downloaded, and where is the information now?


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## had8ley (Apr 29, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I assume that this means that the crossing in this picture isn't the crossing in question, then (or the truck was approaching from the other side)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's the problem with this picture; one cannot clearly see if there are any other crossings north or south of the marked one.(The picture could have been taken from the marked crossing to show the majority of damage.) I was not there; had the opportunity to go visit the site yesterday but the person who was supposed to show me the exact unmarked crossing had other duties to fulfill. From every source "in the know" this well marked crossing was NOT the crossing involved.I've never shoved a flat bed with loaded tanks but have pushed cars better than a quarter of a mile ahead of the engine.


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## had8ley (Apr 29, 2011)

jis said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > So basically the following statement of yours was pulled out of thin air? :mellow:
> ...


All EMD and GE units came equipped with a "drop-down" toilet from as far back as I can remember. We even had potty seats in the engine room of "B" units but the wind current tickled your butt. What the Southern, later NS' didn't want to do was to put out the money for retention tanks to keep the drop-downs from falling on the track. When Amtrak came into being I cannot remember one retention tank on any engine or car. IIRC, a couple of fishermen were underneath a bridge in Florida when Amtrak passed over head. They were dropped on by some oblious pax. A lawsuit brought an FRA mandate to equip all pax equipment and all locomotives with holding tanks. Our last cabooses even had holding tanks.


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## had8ley (Apr 29, 2011)

BobWeaver said:


> Sounds more like NS has a safety culture that it takes very seriously rather than it being "the worst" railroad to work for/around. I'd apply for a job with them any day if that's the case.


Hold the phone and that job app, Bob. Harrassment is the rule of the day, every day of the year, with NS officials. How can one work completely safely when he/she doesn't know if they are going to come home jobless ??? I would stand to bet that worrying about the NS ***** tactics is hardly a "safety culture." And a deep dark secret I'll reveal for all to witness~ freight RR's managers year end bonuses are tied to the test failures that they accumulate during the year. The NS Road Foreman was "just" adding another number to his list. Our UP RFE got an additional $10,000 bonus for having the most test failures on the entire UP system. He was one heck of a good brakeman so I taught him how to run an engine. Thank goodness I retired the year he made Road Foreman.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 29, 2011)

had8ley said:


> BobWeaver said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds more like NS has a safety culture that it takes very seriously rather than it being "the worst" railroad to work for/around. I'd apply for a job with them any day if that's the case.
> ...


Sounds like the Old "Peter Principle" Jay!  The Old saying about Climbing Up the Ladder on the Backs of Others is Certainly True!! Based on my Life Experience and knowing You to Be a Stand-Up Guy as Well as a Hell of an Engineer, Surprised Someone Didn't Manage to have the guy "FallOff" a Night Train somewhere in the Swamps! :lol:


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