# Meadowlands Rail Service



## Andrew (Jan 9, 2014)

http://www.njtransit.com/sf/sf_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=TrainSchedulesFrom

Schedule for NJ Transit Trains between Secaucus and Meadowlands Sports Complex on the day of the Super Bowl.

A few questions:

1. How many riders will use these trains?

2. Will the locomotive be positioned at the "north" or "south" part of the train set with regards to Secaucus Junction? What type of locomotive will be used (Alstom or Dual Power)?


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## AlanB (Jan 9, 2014)

Andrew said:


> 1. How many riders will use these trains?


Know one knows. And no one will know until after the event.



Andrew said:


> 2. Will the locomotive be positioned at the "north" or "south" part of the train set with regards to Secaucus Junction? What type of locomotive will be used (Alstom or Dual Power)?


Who cares which end the loco will be at?

As for what type of loco, why would NJT use a Dual Mode on a line that has no overhead catenary? Unless they're running short of locos, it would be a waste of the engine.


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## MattW (Jan 9, 2014)

As I understand it from other sources, the locomotive is normally positioned on the north end for Meadowlands service to keep the diesel engine away from the terminal side of Hoboken. But as I understand the Meadowlands station orientation, if they run the trains engine-first (engine leading out of Hoboken) they lose the engine's length worth of platform, but I could only flip at coin as to what they would do.

As to the dual-modes, when i was in New York last summer, they were running them on the diesel-only services through Secaucus which caused me to do several takes as to what I was seeing (I checked their road numbers so I know it was the 45s), and they can't change modes in Hoboken, so it's certainly possible they'd use the ALP45s, but beyond that, I could only flip a coin again.


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## jerichowhiskey (Jan 9, 2014)

They used F40PH/ALP-45 engines leading out of Hoboken when I went to a Jets game, but this will be the Super Bowl so they may leave the engine out of the platform for another car.


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## Andrew (Jan 9, 2014)

Is it likely for more Super Bowl attendees do use the Train than the Bus?


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## jis (Jan 9, 2014)

They'll use both.


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## jerichowhiskey (Jan 10, 2014)

From a NJ.com article, Super Bowl officials expect at least 10k to ride the train and 30k to arrive on buses. CBS also has a detail on the public transportation options that will be available throughout the week.

Andrew, Google is your friend.


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## Andrew (Jan 10, 2014)

jerichowhiskey said:


> From a NJ.com article, Super Bowl officials expect at least 10k to ride the train and 30k to arrive on buses. CBS also has a detail on the public transportation options that will be available throughout the week.
> 
> Andrew, Google is your friend.


1. Well, hopefully more riders will take the train than anticipated.

2. Lolz, after Chris Christie's "Bridgegate" Operation/Scandal, I am very confident that more out-of-towners will take the train to the Super Bowl!


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## Fan Railer (Jan 10, 2014)

They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.


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## jis (Jan 10, 2014)

Fan Railer said:


> They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.


Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point


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## Fan Railer (Jan 11, 2014)

jis said:


> Fan Railer said:
> 
> 
> > They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
> ...


I would have had a lot more to say if you hadn't clarified with the second paragraph.

However, from a specification standpoint, the HEP rating for the 45s is 1000 kW regardless of mode, while the HEP rating for the PL42s is 800 kW.

Yes, if you siphon off all 1000 kW to HEP whilst the 45s are running in diesel mode, you only have enough continuous tractive effort to achieve a balancing speed that is relatively low, which is why they would not normally run 45s in diesel mode with a 10 car mlv consist for a longer scheduled run (as it would undoubtedly cause delays in the schedule). But for a short jaunt between SEC and the Stadium, it is acceptable. Not to mention, they've been running 10 car MLV shuttles powered by 45s whenever the shuttle service has been scheduled to run for at least the majority of December.

You also fail to acknowledge the fact that this service is going to be run on a weekend. Most of the 45s that are in revenue see service on the weekdays and are mostly restricted to the Hoboken division. I foresee no major complications that would prevent them from pulling 5 or 6 dual modes that would otherwise be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday, plus 50-60 MLVs which would also be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday and putting them to work. 5-6 consists max should be plenty to keep a roughly 10-20 minute departure interval for a run that is scheduled on paper to take somewhat less than 15 minutes one way. That would place 1-2 trains idling at each of the respective terminals with 1-2 trains on the road between the terminals.


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## jis (Jan 11, 2014)

Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Andrew (Jan 11, 2014)

jis said:


> Fan Railer said:
> 
> 
> > They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
> ...


1. Are you saying that Bay Head will never see direct train service into Penn Station?



Fan Railer said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Fan Railer said:
> ...


2. So which locomotive will be used? Also, if only 10,000 people are expected to ride NJ Transit Shuttle Trains, doesn't it seem that 10 multi-level coaches are too many?


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## Fan Railer (Jan 11, 2014)

Andrew said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Fan Railer said:
> ...


I've already said. The service will be run with 45s and 10 car mlv sets. I don't know where you are getting this "only 10,000 people" number, but that is not the case, and NJT is expecting a somewhat higher number to use the shuttle service. They are not going to risk repeating what happened at the U2 concert, especially during the cold, blustery month of February. Also, I don't think they would invest in extending the platforms at SEC lower level to accommodate 10 car trains just to change their minds for the Super Bowl and not use them to full capacity. <--- See what I did there? Common sense. Once again, try using it once in a while; it'll answer a lot of your questions for you.

Also, I figure it's interesting to mention, Jis, that ALP-45DP 4523 was reported running on train 3922 on the NEC with a 10 car MLV set. Seems like a one off thing, since I haven't heard anything else since earlier this week. But then again, it was in electric mode lol.


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## jis (Jan 11, 2014)

Yeah, as far as I have been told they can handle 10 MLVs in E-mode with no balance speed penalties, though acceleration is more sluggish than with a 46. But I suppose that is to be expected.


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2014)

Suppose NJ Transit eventually ends up claiming that, "20,000 people" will use the Meadowlands Train Service. Does this mean 20,000 people total, or each way (for a total of 40,000 trips)?


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## Fan Railer (Jan 12, 2014)

I wanna say in one direction. Last time they had problems with the U2 concert, it was because they didn't use long enough trains to handle the 20,000 people using the service to leave the Meadowlands.


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2014)

If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?

Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?


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## Fan Railer (Jan 12, 2014)

Andrew said:


> If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?
> 
> Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?


If "Arctic Weather" is present, you can more than likely expect a change of schedule of the game itself. I doubt they would tack on another locomotive just for weather assurances.

Secaucus lower level is mile post 3.6, and the Meadowlands spur branches off at mile post ~8.6 or so. and the spur itself is 1.9 miles. Do the math.


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## Fan Railer (Jan 13, 2014)

> On or about Friday, January 17 and continuing through early February, Raritan Valley Line trains will be a combination of both single and multi-level train sets operating between Newark Penn Station and points west to High Bridge.
> 
> The multi-level trains will be replaced with eight-car, single level sets in preparation for Super bowl Sunday service between Secaucus Transfer Station and MetLife Stadium. This temporary change will not impact service or seating capacity.
> 
> ...


Over from RR.net. I didn't think this would be necessary, but I guess the guys on the inside would know better than I.


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## Andrew (Jan 15, 2014)

Fan Railer said:


> Andrew said:
> 
> 
> > If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?
> ...


What source did you use for those mile post facts?


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## Fan Railer (Jan 16, 2014)

Andrew said:


> Fan Railer said:
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> 
> > Andrew said:
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The Rich Green track maps.


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## Andrew (Jan 16, 2014)

What happens if there is a Hudson Tunnel Problem or a stalled Meadowlands Shuttle Train on the day of the Super Bowl?


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## PRR 60 (Jan 16, 2014)

Andrew said:


> What happens if there is a Hudson Tunnel Problem or a stalled Meadowlands Shuttle Train on the day of the Super Bowl?


Probably a delay.


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## jis (Jan 17, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> Andrew said:
> 
> 
> > What happens if there is a Hudson Tunnel Problem or a stalled Meadowlands Shuttle Train on the day of the Super Bowl?
> ...


And cross-honoring of tickets. If the North River Tubes are down they can always run the shuttles from Hoboken to Meadowlands and ask people to take PATH from 33rd St to Hoboken. There are available redundancies to handle the situation.


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## Andrew (Jan 18, 2014)

Suppose that NJ Transit (and Metro North) trains that terminate/originate at Hoboken Terminal instead went all of the way down to Fulton Street Transit Center in Lower Manhattan.

How would this impact Ridership to the Meadowlands (even if Meadowlands Shuttle Trains on the day of the Super Bowl went to/from Fulton Street instead of terminating at Secaucus Junction)?

Would it reduce traffic through the Holland Tunnel?


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## Fan Railer (Jan 18, 2014)

Andrew said:


> Suppose that NJ Transit (and Metro North) trains that terminate/originate at Hoboken Terminal instead went all of the way down to Fulton Street Transit Center in Lower Manhattan.
> 
> How would this impact Ridership to the Meadowlands (even if Meadowlands Shuttle Trains on the day of the Super Bowl went to/from Fulton Street instead of terminating at Secaucus Junction)?
> 
> Would it reduce traffic through the Holland Tunnel?


This is MAD off topic. Not to mention you are suggesting building a tunnel connecting Hoboken to Downtown Manhattan, not to mention to a section of Downtown Manhattan that doesn't feasibly have room for another major transit terminal.


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## AlanB (Jan 18, 2014)

Andrew said:


> Would it reduce traffic through the Holland Tunnel?


Route 3, which is the highway that runs by the Meadowlands, connects to the Lincoln Tunnel. So I can't really imagine how a train that runs from the Meadowlands would have a significant impact on traffic at the Holland Tunnel which is no where near the Meadowlands.

Anyone living in the Meadowlands area who has decided that driving is their best way to get to work, even if that job is in Downtown Manhattan, is still going to go through the Lincoln Tunnel and then drive south in Manhattan. It's faster, cheaper, and simply easier than trying to fight your way south in NJ to go through the Holland tunnel.


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## Andrew (Jan 19, 2014)

1. I meant for trains that currently terminate at Hoboken Terminal to _instead _terminate at a new train station near Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan. Thus, Hoboken would not see any NJ Train service. Trains that currently go to/from Hoboken Terminal from places such as Dover and Ridgewood would instead travel to Lower Manhattan. I actually do believe that Lower Manhattan does have space for a new train station--if it is deep level. Perhaps the tracks would be 100 feet below street level, and would have easy connections to the Fulton Street Transit Center.

2. I meant that I was wondering that if Meadowlands Rail Service--on the day of the Super Bowl--originated in Lower Manhattan instead of Secaucus Junction--how that would impact traffic and ridership to Metlife Stadium.


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## AlanB (Jan 20, 2014)

Andrew said:


> 2. I meant that I was wondering that if Meadowlands Rail Service--on the day of the Super Bowl--originated in Lower Manhattan instead of Secaucus Junction--how that would impact traffic and ridership to Metlife Stadium.


It might have some impact on the Lincoln tunnel, but it's unlikely that it would have any impact on the Holland Tunnel. People in Manhattan who decide to drive to the game (assuming that they can even get parking tickets which are very limited) are going to drive out the Lincoln tunnel as it leads right to the stadium. They aren't going to drive out of the Holland tunnel which doesn't have a highway that takes you directly to the stadium. Or they're going to drive over the George Washington Bridge which also has a highway direct to the stadium.

No one is going to get in their car, drive to Hoboken which has limited parking, just to get on a train to the Meadowlands. Anyone not driving, and living in lower Manhattan will get on a PATH train to Hoboken and take the train from there.


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## jis (Jan 20, 2014)

AlanB said:


> No one is going to get in their car, drive to Hoboken which has limited parking, just to get on a train to the Meadowlands. Anyone not driving, and living in lower Manhattan will get on a PATH train to Hoboken and take the train from there.


As it turns out this will involve a change of trains at Secaucus, since the shuttle runs only between Secaucus and Meadowlands, and everyone getting on the shuttle first has to undergo security check at Secaucus. This means even if you arrive from Hoboken you have to go upto the top floor, go through the security barrier, and then go down to the bottom floor to the cordoned off shuttle platform to board the shuttle.


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## Nathanael (Jan 20, 2014)

jis said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > No one is going to get in their car, drive to Hoboken which has limited parking, just to get on a train to the Meadowlands. Anyone not driving, and living in lower Manhattan will get on a PATH train to Hoboken and take the train from there.
> ...


Schmuckurity, I call this. Others would call it security theater. It might make sense as a *congestion management* scheme, though -- Secaucus probably has more queuing room than elsewhere.


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## Andrew (Jan 20, 2014)

1. What is the maximum speed of the Meadowlands Rail Service?

2. How can we be sure that no other "Gate" Scandal will occur on the same day as the Super Bowl?!


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## Fan Railer (Jan 20, 2014)

Andrew said:


> 1. What is the maximum speed of the Meadowlands Rail Service?
> 
> 2. How can we be sure that no other "Gate" Scandal will occur on the same day as the Super Bowl?!


1. 70 mph, track speed. With the long and heavy sets, probably not more than 55 mph or so.
2. We can't. Nor does it make sense to even consider that as a possibility.


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## Andrew (Jan 22, 2014)

NJ Transit expects to transport 12,000 ticket-holders from Secaucus Junction to the Meadowlands train station on game day. Durso cautioned that only Super Bowl ticket-holders will be permitted to board Meadowlands-bound trains. Spectators will not be allowed to ride to the stadium to take in the view. - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/NJ_Transit_to_Super_Bowl_fans_Were_ready.html?c=y&page=1#sthash.5oAfdzsy.dpuf

I find that if hard to believe that only "12,000 ticket-holders" will use the Meadowlands Rail Service on February 2nd.

If this is the case, why are 10-car double decker trains going to be utilized?


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## Fan Railer (Feb 1, 2014)

Here's your answer to what sets will be used: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sullivan1985/12245173005/sizes/k/

From Mike Sullivan.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sullivan1985/12245173005/


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## jis (Feb 1, 2014)

I passed through Secaucus yesterday crossing over from Secaucus upper to Secaucus lower as most Meadowlands goers will have to do. And boy the security setup is something to behold. They were already doing random bag checks to practice for the big day I suppose. Of course on the big day, bags and articles that do not meet the constraints described in the folder with the game tickets will simply have to be dropped off, exactly how or where I don;t know. They will simply not be allowed through the barrier to the game shuttles.

Also see:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20140131_ap_8a140635217a4c9b97619eead6b3e51b.html?c=r


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## Andrew (Feb 1, 2014)

Fan Railer said:


> Here's your answer to what sets will be used: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sullivan1985/12245173005/sizes/k/
> 
> From Mike Sullivan.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sullivan1985/12245173005/


Great picture.

But what "End" are the locomotives positioned at? In other words, will they "lead" trains into the Meadowlands or "push" trains into the Meadowlands?


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## PRR 60 (Feb 1, 2014)

jis said:


> I passed through Secaucus yesterday crossing over from Secaucus upper to Secaucus lower as most Meadowlands goers will have to do. And boy the security setup is something to behold. They were already doing random bag checks to practice for the big day I suppose. Of course on the big day, bags and articles that do not meet the constraints described in the folder with the game tickets will simply have to be dropped off, exactly how or where I don;t know. They will simply not be allowed through the barrier to the game shuttles.
> 
> Also see:
> 
> http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20140131_ap_8a140635217a4c9b97619eead6b3e51b.html?c=r


Bags or other items that do not meet the size and other requirements set by the NFL will not be allowed into the stadium or past the Secaucus security. There will not be a bag check, so the option is either not to attend the game or deposit the items in a nearby dumpster.


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## Fan Railer (Feb 1, 2014)

Andrew said:


> Fan Railer said:
> 
> 
> > Here's your answer to what sets will be used: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sullivan1985/12245173005/sizes/k/
> ...


You can wait a little less than 24 hours to find out. It won't kill you.


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## Fan Railer (Feb 2, 2014)

Back from my trip. Security was tight as hell. Got away with two clips on the lower level before heading up to the upper level. Security was screening EVERYONE, even people who were just going from lower level to upper level for a transfer. Was told on the upper level that I'd need to fill out paper work if I wanted to continue filming, so I figured given my schedule, I'd just leave and call it a day. Not a complete loss though. Got half of what I came for.


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## jis (Feb 2, 2014)

At around 2:30pm things were starting to look a bit alarming at the upper level with lines hardly moving and frequent trains dumping more people onto platforms that were getting close to full. I heard from people in the know that around 2:45 they eased off a bit on security to clear the upper level platform before something bad happened. Seemed to have worked since by 3:30 when I came back to Secaucus things were flowing much more smoothly and there was no alarming overcrowding anywhere.


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## jerichowhiskey (Feb 2, 2014)

NJ.com



> A record 27,000 people passed though the Secaucus Junction train station today, turning it into a virtual sauna and prompting shouts of “Jersey sucks” as football fans waited impatiently for trains to MetLife Stadium.


Almost doubled the highest estimated figure they thought would take the train.


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## Fan Railer (Feb 2, 2014)

jerichowhiskey said:


> NJ.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure why they even lowered the estimate in the first place.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2014)

Here is a pretty good report:

http://www.thelirrtoday.com/2014/02/a-rough-night-for-njtransit.html

Apparently there were significant problems. I did observe one of those developing as mentioned above.

As we had suspected all along the MLVs are not suited for moving large number of people quickly due to inherent design flaws.

I think if it was somehow possible to use LIRR or MNRR style EMUs things would have moved smoother since those cars can be loaded and unloaded much more rapidly. Some suggested that even Comet's with center doors would have been preferable to the MLVs. Yes, individual train capacity would have been a little less but they would have loaded and moved and unloaded much much quicker.

As for how the organizers came up with the 12,000 number is a complete mystery. I knew people had forgotten how to do arithmetic. But even with calculators they can't? Oh well 

It is too bad that mass transit got a bit of a black eye from this one.


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## jis (Feb 3, 2014)

More ....

http://www.nj.com/super-bowl/index.ssf/2014/02/super_bowl_2014_hows_your_ride_home.html#incart_maj-story-1


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 3, 2014)

Wow, sounds like a royal disaster. A lot more people than expected, slow loading equipment. Forced transfer.

Of course, having that TSA screening at Secaucus was a recipe for disaster. Somebody should have seen that coming.


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## jerichowhiskey (Feb 3, 2014)

It was apparently Superbowl officials who came up with that number as they expected at least 30k bus riders, but when the bus option was apparently a round trip ride for $51, it's not that hard to imagine that many would not want to take it. On the other hand, those who did take the bus certainly had a much easier time getting there and back.


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## Fan Railer (Feb 3, 2014)

http://www.lackawannacoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=260


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## jis (Feb 3, 2014)

And here is what NFL had to say about the whole thing:

http://www.nj.com/super-bowl/index.ssf/2014/02/super_bowl_2014_nfl_executive_calls_secaucus_junction_jam_a_good_lesson_learned_for_all_of_us.html


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## Andrew (Feb 3, 2014)

1. Does the 28,000 ridership number refer to each way or total?

2. How long did it take to travel between Secaucus and Metlife Stadium by train yesterday (once the train began moving)?


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## jis (Feb 3, 2014)

1. Each way, though there are some reports that the return trip was considerably more than 28,000. As to how that can be don't ask me. I have no idea. People came in by bus and ditched it for the train on the way back? How would the ticketing for such work? No clue.

2. Should be about 15 minutes or so. Maybe Fan Railer has a better more accurate number.


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## Andrew (Feb 3, 2014)

What can be done to improve Meadowlands Rail Service the next time New Jersey hosts a Super Bowl? (Perhaps begin trains at Hoboken and open the Stadium gates at 1:00 PM instead of 2:00 PM)?


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## Fan Railer (Feb 5, 2014)

jis said:


> 1. Each way, though there are some reports that the return trip was considerably more than 28,000. As to how that can be don't ask me. I have no idea. People came in by bus and ditched it for the train on the way back? How would the ticketing for such work? No clue.
> 
> 2. Should be about 15 minutes or so. Maybe Fan Railer has a better more accurate number.


Start watching at 15:30 for the first video.
Nothing much on the train side. They need to take the load off of the rail system and transfer some of it to the bus. As stated in the links before (which makes me wonder if you read any of that stuff), the lopsided ridership numbers (between train and bus) were due to price gouging by the NFL on the bus side ($51 a ticket) and the relative affordability on the rail side ($10 a ticket, or something like that).
From the rail infrastructure end, you can't do much to increase capacity in terms of head ways due to the way the Meadowlands Spur Line is designed. So with 10 minute head ways and the trains that you can use, you're really stuck with a capacity of 12k-15k people per hour.


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## jis (Feb 5, 2014)

Considering that after a typical game at the MetLife stadium it can take someone who got there by car as much as two hours or more to get out of there, I am at a loss to understand what the whole excitement is all about. Did people really expect 30,000 people to be magically transported out of there in half an hour?


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## Fan Railer (Feb 5, 2014)

jis said:


> Considering that after a typical game at the MetLife stadium it can take someone who got there by car as much as two hours or more to get out of there, I am at a loss to understand what the whole excitement is all about. Did people really expect 30,000 people to be magically transported out of there in half an hour?


The excitement stems from the fans, who come from regions of the country that do not have the transportation system / infrastructure that we have. Obviously they're going to make a big deal about something they don't personally understand.


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## Andrew (Feb 5, 2014)

How likely is it for New Jersey to host a Super Bowl within the next 10 years?


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## Fan Railer (Feb 5, 2014)

Andrew said:


> How likely is it for New Jersey to host a Super Bowl within the next 10 years?


slim to none.


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## jis (Feb 6, 2014)

Yep, very unlikely that it will host one again in 10 years if ever. New York should go ahead and host one in that other stadium that they have.


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## Andrew (Feb 6, 2014)

Is the Meadowlands Rail Line PTC equipped?


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## jis (Feb 6, 2014)

No. Not yet. But it is cab signaled at least as far as Sports interlocking. Don;t know the situation beyond that.


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## Andrew (Feb 9, 2014)

How fast can Meadowlands train switch at Sports interlocking?


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 9, 2014)

Fan Railer said:


> http://www.lackawannacoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=260


Please don't post that. Please please don't post that. I swear I will never live down writing that damned thing.


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## Fan Railer (Feb 9, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Fan Railer said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.lackawannacoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=260
> ...


hahaha, well, granted, I did share it before it became out of date =P


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## Andrew (Jun 24, 2014)

How many train sets typically get used for Events at the Meadowlands?

Also, aren't most Meadowlands Train Sets 6 or 7 cars long?


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