# Richmond, VA to Madison, WI - took Greyhound to arrive on time



## Richmond (Jul 1, 2014)

I went from Richmond, VA to Madison, WI a couple of weeks ago. I had tickets for Amtrak's Capitol Limited, but I was afraid it would be late (it was), which would have caused an even later arrival in Madison (on Van Galder). So, I took Greyhound from Richmond to Chicago, arriving on time in the morning. I had time to walk to Union Station, eat lunch, and catch the noonish Van Galder to Madison.

I'm returning to Richmond via Amtrak. The Capitol has been consistently late, two days by over 4 hours this past week, but arriving on time is not as critical as having a more legroom and onboard meals.

By the way, my Greyhound advanced purchase ticket Richmond-Chicago cost $38.

Also, Van Galder is now running doubledecker buses between Madison and downtown Chicago.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 1, 2014)

Did it turn out OK? $38 is a steal for Richmond-Chicago! Greyhound's quite timely now, 91% on-time, they are really getting their act together. Hopefully the bus and driver were good. You know, Richmond's a VERY BIG Greyhound hub, so if you're planning to ride Greyhound somewhere else in the future, would be a good idea to sign up for Road Rewards. Like if you want to go to Tennessee.


----------



## Guest (Jul 1, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Did it turn out OK? $38 is a steal for Richmond-Chicago! Greyhound's quite timely now, 91% on-time, they are really getting their act together. Hopefully the bus and driver were good. You know, Richmond's a VERY BIG Greyhound hub, so if you're planning to ride Greyhound somewhere else in the future, would be a good idea to sign up for Road Rewards. Like if you want to go to Tennessee.


Yeah, I live in Richmond, so I'm well aware of the Greyhound action. I've even walked by the garage a few times, where they park the worn out buses.

The $38 trip was fine. But get this: Checking right now, the fare three weeks out is $37 Richmond-Chicago, $76.50 Washington-Chicago. Yet, the bus from Richmond stops in Washington. Same for leaving from Baltimore, and there's a direct schedule BAL-CHI that I would be on anyway, leaving from RUD. Strange.

We had about an hour in Pittsburgh. The station is a lot nicer now than it was before the big makeover, and seemingly so is downtown Pittsburgh in that area.

Rest stop on PA Turnpike: They don't stop at Breezewood like they used to. It's a more remote rest stop, in Midway. Just as good, I guess. Clean restrooms, coffee, a few different food shops.

Cleveland layover was about an hour in the middle of the night. Loud TVs, I suppose to keep people awake. The Cleveland-Chicago segment was great: One rest stop. Otherwise, a straight shot. I went to sleep in Cleveland and woke up in Chicago.

I didn't take Greyhound all the way to Madison because the Greyhound stop there is a little out of the way, since Greyhound closed their station downtown. So, it was Van Galder. (I would taken Megabus, but tickets were already high when I checked.)


----------



## railiner (Jul 1, 2014)

Quite frankly, even though I am generally a proponent of bus travel, and work in that business, I am really surprised anyone would do what you did.....give up a trip you had purchased on the Capitol Limited from WAS to CHI, and take Greyhound instead, for your stated reason....that's a pretty extreme measure to possibly save some time...

Even if the Cap had been late, couldn't you have taken a later connection on to Madison?

If time was really so critical, why not just fly?

As for the lower fare for the longer trip from Richmond to Chicago, rather than from Washngton......that is a result of Greyhound following the airline-style "yield management" business model, where fares are no longer mileage based, but rather by the market rate between the origin and destination. Sharp passengers have found creative ways to take advantage of these fares in some instances, but that is a whole other subject with its pro's and cons.....

Interesting that you mentioned the old Breezewood, Pa. Greyhound Post House rest stop.....that was a very impressive operation in Eastern Greyhound's 'glory years', with an endless parade of arrivals and departures around the clock....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 2, 2014)

Yeah, if I had purchased the train ticket I wouldn't give it up for the bus ticket, but if I had purchased the bus ticket I wouldn't give it up for the train ticket. I just don't like wasting money.

I'm glad that you are not coming off whining about Greyhound like people before. Did your bus have seat belts? The ones with seat belts are a lot less comfortable than the ones without seat belts.


----------



## Richmond (Jul 2, 2014)

On Amtrak I could have taken a later connection, but those few extra hours in Madison were important enough for me to get there early. The lower Greyhound fare was an inducement, too. Had it been much higher, I might have stayed with the Cap. And this trip wasn't so important that I would have considered flying.

I was spending only one night in Madison and departing early the next day. I wanted to arrive early enough to hit up a couple of my favorite spots before they closed.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 2, 2014)

Ah, that makes sense. But could you have cancelled your Amtrak ticket?


----------



## Richmond (Jul 2, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Ah, that makes sense. But could you have cancelled your Amtrak ticket?


Oh, of course! I called Amtrak and got a full refund on my VISA card, which came through within less than a week.

That's the beauty of advance purchase low fares: They're non-refundable, but if I have to cancel the trip, it's no big loss.

Although I've still been able to have such Greyhound tickets rescheduled, for a $20 fee plus any difference in fare.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 3, 2014)

Makes sense then. Since you would only be in Madison for one day, I can understand wanting to get there as early as possible. So, you slept from Cleveland all the way to Chicago? I'm thinking it was a bus without seat belts?


----------



## Richmond (Jul 3, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Makes sense then. Since you would only be in Madison for one day, I can understand wanting to get there as early as possible. So, you slept from Cleveland all the way to Chicago? I'm thinking it was a bus without seat belts?


I didn't notice any seatbelts, and I've never had a Greyhound driver (in IL, IN, OH, PA, MD, DC, VA, DE, NY, CT) tell passengers to buckle up.

I slept from Chicago to Cleveland, including the rest stop. It helped having a travel pillow and a seat-pair to myself.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 3, 2014)

Yeah I know, they never tell you to buckle up, even when there are seat belts. If you didn't notice seat belts, then there were probably no seat belts. That means the older seats in the older buses which are so much more comfortable. They made the older buses look like the new buses, doesn't really matter because they are far more comfortable. If you had taken a new bus with the horrid new seats that sag all the time, I'm sure you wouldn't have slept the 7.5 hours from Cleveland to Chicago.

You know, I took a look at a hypnogram ("sleep chart") and it seems like human sleep comes in 90-minute blocks. So 7.5 hours is 5 blocks, perfect timing! 

By the way, I checked out your bus, if you arrived in Chicago at 10:30 AM, that bus would've made three revenue stops in addition to the rest stop. Looks like you slept through everything.


----------



## Richmond (Jul 3, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> By the way, I checked out your bus, if you arrived in Chicago at 10:30 AM, that bus would've made three revenue stops in addition to the rest stop. Looks like you slept through everything.


Hmm... I conflated two different Greyhound trips I took Richmond-Chicago within the last month. The 10:30 arrival was the last trip, the one I "traded" for the Amtrak ride. The one before that was when I slept through until the arrival at 4:30.

I do remember on the last trip a stop in Gary, IN, and a rest stop.

I do okay with overnight bus trips unless the layovers are close together and in the early a.m.

I remember on the old schedules Richmond-Philadelphia, passengers always had to get off the bus in Washington for about 30 minutes. So you leave Richmond, fall asleep, and then have to wake up in Washington for the layover. What a drag that was: Bright flourescent lights, loud TVs, people milling around, hard wire mesh seats.

Yeah, I've noticed seatbelts on certain buses lately, but I've never used them.

I like the looks of the 10:45 p.m. departure Chicago-Richmond: Overnight Chicago-Cleveland w/rest stop. Time for coffee in Cleveland, then a straight shot to Pittsburgh. About an hour layover, then to Baltimore with only a rest stop. The 2.5 hour layover in Baltimore would give me a chance to hit a couple of favorite spots there, maybe even to hang out a while, take the MARC to DC, and a late-night Megabus to Richmond, if all done advance purchase. Or to stay overnight in Batltimore in the hostel.


----------



## railiner (Jul 3, 2014)

Your posts on traveling Greyhound between Chicago, Cleveland, and Richmond, remind me of when I used to frequently travel along parts of that route....back then there was way more service than the meager four daily trips GL offers today. Really sad what they have done to their timetable.....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi Guest from Richmond, you ever look at the Greyhound System Timetable? Useful resource: http://extranet.greyhound.com. Bad route map though, it's the 2011 route map, and "469" has been cancelled.

There must have been more than the current Washington-Chicago and New York-Chicago frequencies, actually no Richmond-Chicago through bus, but they should be expanding service on the New York-Chicago soon because 1x daily is just not enough. Already expanded elsewhere in the country, mainly out here in the West. I think maybe the old smaller buses played a role in high frequencies. Man, can you believe Greyhound still runs the Jackson-Mobile Local?

One expanding concept that you'll find throughout the timetable is Greyhound Limited Service, which are basically long-distance Expresses. They started off in 2013 (used to be common a long time ago) and are designed so that long-haul passengers won't have to deal with frequent stops at night, causing disturbances. As you may know, sleeping on a bus is a lot easier with less stops at night. Even non-Limited routes over long distances have reduced stops at night for better sleeping. Besides, very few people get on at that time, when better daylight times are available for those stops.

As of right now, Greyhound's got Limiteds on New York-Chicago, New York-Atlanta, New York-Miami, Richmond-Miami, Atlanta-Houston, Orlando-Houston, Chicago-Dallas, Detroit-Dallas, Los Angeles-Dallas, and Los Angeles-Vancouver. It's really exploding across the country. And the Americanos Limited, Denver-El Paso, geared to Spanish-speaking passengers but anyone can ride it, cheap too, at $36.50.

The 30-minute stop in Washington on the Richmond-Philadelphia was a service stop to refuel and clean the bus. Now Greyhound doesn't have its own station in Washington, and it's quite pointless to service there when Greyhound has garages at both Philly and Richmond. And there's the daytime runs.


----------



## railiner (Jul 4, 2014)

One reason for reduced frequencies east of Chicago is the elimination of the entire route west of Chicago, to Iowa, Nebraska and beyond on the I-80 corridor....

Now any thru passengers must "detour" south via St. Louis, Kansas City, and Denver, to reach Wyoming and beyond....

And elimination of the thru route west from Minneapolis across North Dakota to Montana via I-94, I-90 and beyond, didn't help either...

True, other carrier's have taken up some of the slack, but are a weak shadow of what GL used to run...


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 4, 2014)

Yeah, all those different carriers in North Central don't work out well at all. You have Jefferson, Burlington, and Black Hills, all cutting up various parts of the North Central, routes that used to be operated by Greyhound, and cooperation isn't enough to support the integrity of the national network.

Now there's no Greyhound west from Chicago along I-80 until you get to Cheyenne. No Greyhound along I-90 west of the Tomah split (I-94) until Missoula. No Greyhound west of Minneapolis along the rest of I-94.

Plus, north-sound service would be better if Greyhound still operated anything north of Kansas City on I-29 or I-35, Cheyenne on I-25, and north of SLC on I-15.

Pretty soon anyone can realize Greyhound has a massive frigging gap in the North Central, just a massive gap. Could be fixed with a Chicago-Denver and Chicago-Seattle, if Greyhound wanted to do it.

Edit: Hey, that's probably why Greyhound Madison moved to such a bad position!


----------



## Richmond (Jul 4, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Hi Guest from Richmond, you ever look at the Greyhound System Timetable? Useful resource: http://extranet.greyhound.com. Bad route map though, it's the 2011 route map, and "469" has been cancelled.


Hi, Swadian: Yes, I'm aware of that link because I found out about it from one of your posts here a few years ago! So thanks!

I look up schedules once in a while.

I like the overnight limited stop idea. It helps a lot, not having to get off and on the bus, not having to deal with passengers boarding in the middle of the night.

One other aspect of the Madison lack of station is that there has been an ongoing real estate boom there. The old station location, which used to be shared by Greyhound and Badger (a local bus company serving Madison-Milwaukee), is now an apartment building with maybe some retail on the first floor. Big real estate boom in downtown Madison.

I suppose it's okay if you're traveling Madison-Chicago/Minneapolis/Milwaukee, because of Van Galder (Chicago), Badger (Milwaukee) and Megabus (Minneapolis.) You can catch all those buses downtown. I'm not sure about where Jefferson lines stops in Madison.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 4, 2014)

The overnight Reno-SLC run is quite popular, even with business travelers, because of the minimal night stops and comfortable buses. After the night run it continues to Denver on the scenic route, US 40. Nice bus ride, probably one of the best along with the Denver-Portland and the other Denver routes, which are also used by a few businessmen on the shorter night segments, for example, Denver-SLC, Denver-Kansas City, or Boise-Portland.

But yeah, last time I explicitly noted two businessmen at Reno Terminal waiting for the night run to SLC, having transferred from California.

Check out this old report back when Greyhound used the "EE" buses out of Denver: http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2010/07/21/graveyard-run-to-boise/.


----------



## railiner (Jul 5, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> The overnight Reno-SLC run is quite popular, even with business travelers, because of the minimal night stops and comfortable buses. After the night run it continues to Denver on the scenic route, US 40. Nice bus ride, probably one of the best along with the Denver-Portland and the other Denver routes, which are also used by a few businessmen on the shorter night segments, for example, Denver-SLC, Denver-Kansas City, or Boise-Portland.
> 
> But yeah, last time I explicitly noted two businessmen at Reno Terminal waiting for the night run to SLC, having transferred from California.
> 
> Check out this old report back when Greyhound used the "EE" buses out of Denver: http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2010/07/21/graveyard-run-to-boise/.


That was a good read, thanks for the link, Swadian...

In the four years since it was written, I would say the proportion of passenger's printing online tickets have perhaps become the majority in many cases lately. Personally, I dislike them...a pain to read, check, and handle. I look forward to the next technology, of smart phones and scanners, eliminating a lot of the drudgery.

I liked the way the writer described himself as a "bus newbie" as opposed to those that "knew the drill"....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 5, 2014)

I know, every time I see drivers trying to read Print at Home tickets I can easily see the confusion on their faces, even as they ask for "valid photo ID, please". So I always book Will Call now, after some bad tries with Print at Home, I just find it easier. I show the driver my ticket, he looks over it, rip off a segment, and I'm on the bus.

Obviously very few people, not even me, would ride overnight Greyhound once a month, so I think the author was trying to make it seems like a business-oriented flight-substitute, when it's not. But then again, I'm glad a "bus newbie" is happy with Greyhound, especially in the days when they still overbooked and didn't have upgraded buses.

Interesting to note that the bus in the article, #6079, is now rebuilt to reach the same "blue" standards that the author thought would be "rolling off the production line", except it is now running in Canada. 

Aw, this is why people get so confused about Greyhound! Every time someone asks me about Greyhound I have such a hard time explaining. They go like, "So a "new" bus isn't actually new? And then some American Greyhounds went to Canada now? Greyhound Express in Canada uses ex-American buses that are not actually new? Old buses are better than new buses but they look like new buses and don't have seat belts? What about the old buses that were dirty and smelly all the time?"


----------



## Richmond (Jul 5, 2014)

There have been times over the the past 2 years when I've been on Greyhound overnights 2-3 times per month Washington-New York 10pm-2:20am. Pretty relaxed and fast schedule, usually a seat pair to myself. X3-45 definitely rings a bell on this run.

Walk to Richmond Main Street Station, catch Megabus (6:40pm; less than $10; about two hours; bus less than half full) to WAS Union Station parking garage, grab a bite to eat downstairs, ride Greyhound to NYC, sleep in waiting area of Port Authority til dawn, hit the ground runnin'.

It's muscle memory once you make it a habit, but it takes a toll on body and mind. I wouldn't want to have to do it on a regular schedule, but I'm glad it's there when I need it.

I've used Will Call, print-at-home a few times, and for a while there, 7-11 cash-paid tickets. Problem with 7-11 was that they would only give you one ticket slip. For non-transfering schedules, the driver always insisted on taking the slip, leaving me with no receipt for my records and no proof (once at Port Authority) that I was a legitimate Greyhound passenger. Later, 7-11 starting giving two slips, one a receipt, the other a "ticket".

Lately I mostly use will call.

It would be fantastic if Greyhound went to e-ticketing and you could reschedule your trip over the phone.


----------



## railiner (Jul 5, 2014)

Richmond said:


> There have been times over the the past 2 years when I've been on Greyhound overnights 2-3 times per month Washington-New York 10pm-2:20am. Pretty relaxed and fast schedule, usually a seat pair to myself. X3-45 definitely rings a bell on this run.
> 
> Walk to Richmond Main Street Station, catch Megabus (6:40pm; less than $10; about two hours; bus less than half full) to WAS Union Station parking garage, grab a bite to eat downstairs, ride Greyhound to NYC, sleep in waiting area of Port Authority til dawn, hit the ground runnin'.
> 
> ...


If I were taking that trip, I would take the 11:35 PM Greyhound schedule from Richmond, which makes a thirty minute highway rest stop (no turnover of passenger's), at the Chesapeake House, and then arrives in The Port at 6:20 AM.....

To me a much more comfortable and convenient trip, in so many ways.....


----------



## Richmond (Jul 5, 2014)

railiner said:


> If I were taking that trip, I would take the 11:35 PM Greyhound schedule from Richmond, which makes a thirty minute highway rest stop (no turnover of passenger's), at the Chesapeake House, and then arrives in The Port at 6:20 AM.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That one is usually full to the gills with connecting passengers arriving from points south and west.

The 11:40 p.m. has been better in my experience. It stops in Washington and Baltimore, but you can stay on the bus the whole trip.

Reason I took the earlier but was that 6:20 or so was a little bit too close for comfort. If the bus had been late, I would have been in trouble on my own schedule.

But your're right, it is more comfortable to ride straight through.


----------



## railiner (Jul 5, 2014)

Well, in that case, since you don't seem to mind hanging in The Port for a few hours, how about the previous express that departs Richmond at 8:15 PM, and arrives at The Port at 3:00 AM?


----------



## Richmond (Jul 5, 2014)

railiner said:


> Well, in that case, since you don't seem to mind hanging in The Port for a few hours, how about the previous express that departs Richmond at 8:15 PM, and arrives at The Port at 3:00 AM?


To save money. Richmond-New York fare was running about $45 on Greyhound. Megabus Richmond-Washington was $1-9, Greyhound Washington-New York, $17-23. (Although once I got a $1 Greyhound Richmond-Washington.)

And again, the straight-through Greyhound express could have been packed full. It's been my experience that Washington-New York passengers are more savvy and well behaved, like it's no big deal to be traveling. It's almost like a commuter run. On schedules connecting from the West and South, there's always that one passenger that has to sit up all night and tell somebody

his life story, his travels and travails. Not much fun for me on an overnight bus ride.

The Washington-New York overnight Greyhound is _usually_ not completely full.


----------



## railiner (Jul 5, 2014)

Okay....I was not considering that aspect of it....obviously the thru expresses are more popular than the segmented travel, where by switching here and there,. you can save bucks, and be less crowded. That probably holds true in other examples, as well. For instance, the overnight trips to and from New York and Toronto, are usually packed. But if you are willing to take locals changing at places like Buffalo, and/or Syracuse, you can find some runs that are usually lightly used in comparison....

As for saving on fares, I cannot answer.....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 5, 2014)

I think, if I were you, I would take Sked 1052 out of Richmond at 1:15 AM, and get to New York at 8:00 AM, with a single rest stop at Chesapeake House. What you definitely don't want to ride are the through runs from Atlanta or Miami.

Something I've found is that the drivers on these short, frequent, high-density routes are generally less friendly than on the less frequent long-haul routes, like Reno-SLC-Denver. Reno-SLC is probably the most peaceful bus ride ever, it's quite and nobody talks or makes noise. Plus, you can usually get a seat pair to yourself.

We have no X3-45's in the West, lots of D4505's, that is a fat, overrated bus and isn't very comfortable. I personally don't like the new seats in either of these buses, and would prefer the old seats on any overnight run. Thankfully, Reno-SLC-Denver gets mostly old buses now painted blue, the new fat D4505's are all in California trying to deal with EPA regulations. So you see tons of fat buses in Reno but they pretty much all go to California.

What do you think about the gate assignments in Reno? Do you think buses should have flexible gates or assigned gates? In Reno, Gate 1 is extra sections, Gate 2 is SLC/Denver, Gate 3 is San Fran Local, Gate 4 is San Fran Express. Any daytime Express to San Fran is generally topped out with 50 passengers.

By the way, yesterday's Fourth of July fireworks in Reno were right by the Greyhound Terminal, at Winfield Park.


----------



## railiner (Jul 6, 2014)

I think he mentioned that he needed to get into The City much earlier, to safely have a 'time-cushion' for his appointment....


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 6, 2014)

Ah yeah, but I mean, if I were doing it, probably for leisure, I would take the other run.


----------

