# CPKC and Amtrak. A possibility?



## me_little_me (Nov 12, 2021)

I was looking at the latest Trains Magazine article on the KCS and CP merger. What if, as part of its approval process of the CP and KCS merger, the STB required that the new company provide Amtrak with access to run trains between Meridian and Dallas and NOL and Dallas? 

The Crescent w/o having to fight NS for a new train, could have two components with sleepers and coach continuing from Meridian to Dallas with one sleeper and coach going to NOL. This would provide continuous single train service between NYC and NOL or Dallas while helping Amtrak justify the sleepers after Atlanta because now there is little use of them beyond Atlanta.

Possibly the NOL to Dallas could be used to extend the proposed NOL to Mobile route.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 12, 2021)

No, the STB has a history not given train access to players not already involved.


----------



## jiml (Nov 12, 2021)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> No, the STB has a history not given train access to players not already involved.


CP and Amtrak already work together on other routes, and traditionally CP finishes at the top of Amtrak's "report card". The basis for conversation certainly exists.


----------



## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 12, 2021)

jiml said:


> CP and Amtrak already work together on other routes, and traditionally CP finishes at the top of Amtrak's "report card". The basis for conversation certainly exists.


Great reason for them to negotiate a train access scheme. Not for the STB to grant them one.


----------



## George Harris (Nov 12, 2021)

This could be an interesting court or arbitration case. The outcome would not be a foregone conclusion. A Meridian - Shreveport train could be faster than the old ICRR train, as the line now has signals. However, if a faster speed were to be used, ALL the grade crossing signal circuits would have to be lengthened, and you better bet that would be an Amtrak cost, not a KCS/CP cost.

At one time in the past there was a proposed New Orleans - Baton Rouge train and KCS was most emphatically against it, so I would not expect them to be cooperative about a Meridian - Shreveport train, and then how do you get from there to Dallas? UP?


----------



## west point (Nov 13, 2021)

Since many of the crossing circuits have been installed in the last 10 - 15 years they may already have predictor circuits instead of fixed distance approach circuits ?


----------



## me_little_me (Nov 13, 2021)

If the government can approve mergers with stipulations that require divestitures of some properties then surely they can pressure CPKC to be nice to Amtrak since the merger would mean "less competition for Amtrak's business".


----------



## Train Horn Music (Dec 5, 2021)

CP CEO Keith Creel talks historic KCS merger, CPKC name, operations - Trains 

Near the end of the article, Creel talks about possible Amtrak services using former KCS trackage.


----------



## neroden (Dec 8, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> I was looking at the latest Trains Magazine article on the KCS and CP merger. What if, as part of its approval process of the CP and KCS merger, the STB required that the new company provide Amtrak with access to run trains between Meridian and Dallas and NOL and Dallas?


The focus by passenger rail advocates on getting concessions from this deal has actually been on Baton Rouge to NOL (where KCS is the preferred route)


----------



## neroden (Dec 8, 2021)

west point said:


> Since many of the crossing circuits have been installed in the last 10 - 15 years they may already have predictor circuits instead of fixed distance approach circuits ?


I would expect so. Fixed warning time signals for grade crossings are pretty nearly standard for new installs or replacements at this point.


----------



## Train Horn Music (Dec 8, 2021)

Canadian Pacific commits to New Orleans-Baton Rouge passenger train if KCS merger is approved - Trains 

CP commits to passenger service between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, if CP-KCS is approved. CP provided ways on how line could be improved to support more trains and to run trains at higher speeds. Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) also announced that the state and its partners will look at providing funding for improvements to the line.


----------



## cassie225 (Jan 14, 2022)

I live in Baton Rouge and hope that this passenger service goes thru, that drive on the interstate is getting vicious, I would take this train to NO often and it also is gonna stop at the airport, it would really improve tourism for NO because hotels in BR could be used also. Just holding my breathe


----------



## jis (Jan 15, 2022)

Some more on the Dallas connection possibility being discussed









Amtrak, freight railway company, Canadian Pacific, announce agreement to support expanded passenger rail routes including I-20 corridor


The announcement by Amtrak and CP was very welcomed news to passenger rail advocacy organizations throughout the nation, including the I-20 Corridor Council.




www.cbs19.tv


----------



## jis (Jan 16, 2022)

Proposed Amtrak passenger rail could connect East Texas to New York


MARSHALL, Texas (KETK) – A new proposed passenger rail connection could connect East Texas to the Big Apple. Earlier this month, Amtrak and Canadian Pacific Railway Limited announced an agree…




www.ketk.com


----------



## jiml (Jan 16, 2022)

CP is milking this for all it's worth and it certainly can't hurt their needed approvals. Their current management seems unusually "passenger friendly", not only in the US but with a couple of pending projects this side of the border.


----------



## west point (Jan 16, 2022)

Another person ( TV station ) only looks at end points. How many persons will actually go end to end?. Or even all Texas to NYP?


----------



## Train Horn Music (Jan 17, 2022)

The merger managed to get Amtrak's blessings for now.








Amtrak backs CP-KCS merger after reaching deal for service expansions - Trains


WASHINGTON – Canadian Pacific today won Amtrak’s support for its proposed merger with Kansas City Southern after CP and Amtrak reached a deal to expand passenger service in the Midwest and South. CP agreed to more frequent Amtrak service on the Hiawatha route linking Chicago and Milwaukee, as...




www.trains.com


----------



## cassie225 (Jan 17, 2022)

So is this really a possibility, they always play with emotions on doing trains to different areas then say nope, ain’t gonna happen. Lol


----------



## jis (Jan 17, 2022)

cassie225 said:


> So is this really a possibility, they always play with emotions on doing trains to different areas then say nope, ain’t gonna happen. Lol



If one believes the frequent posture of the current Amtrak CEO, this will happen only if Texas and or the other states it will pass through funds it or Congress appropriates fund with a clear instruction that a three year old can understand instructing its introduction. Not otherwise.


----------



## west point (Jan 17, 2022)

Can you imagine what the other class 1s are saying about this CP gesture? D-m them. Makes it harder to deny Amtrak.


----------



## neroden (Jan 18, 2022)

jis said:


> If one believes the frequent posture of the current Amtrak CEO, this will happen only if Texas and or the other states it will pass through funds it or Congress appropriates fund with a clear instruction that a three year old can understand instructing its introduction. Not otherwise.


The current Amtrak CEO is not particularly competent. Once the new Board gets in place, we shall see who they hire. Have to get the new Board mandated by the most recent legislation in place, though, as the existing Board are seatwarmers.


----------



## Willbridge (Jan 21, 2022)

jis said:


> If one believes the frequent posture of the current Amtrak CEO, this will happen only if Texas and or the other states it will pass through funds it or Congress appropriates fund with a clear instruction that a three year old can understand instructing its introduction. Not otherwise.


Yes. For the past five decades I've wondered why some Class I's feel the need to be openly antagonistic to preliminary proposals for new Amtrak services. There are so many other obstacles that pop up and their open activities have no effects on actual negotiations or STB actions anyway.

With that, I should note the retirement of BNSF's D. J. Mitchell. He is a real gentleman and put up with many hypothetical questions in his years of responsibility for passenger service agreements. He kept up on foreign developments, too. He raised businesslike issues in discussions. Some years ago, I met the UP's counterpart. She came from the SP in their merger, and in tone and message reminded me of the SP.


----------

