# TSA on Amtrak



## Durham57 (Mar 2, 2011)

I have never posted before, so hope this is in the right forum. My question is in relation to rumors and articles I have seen regarding TSA Security moving into Amtrak stations. I stopped flying five years ago because of the bizarre TSA methods at the airports, and consequently became a big train fan. We travel once a year between San Diego and Charleston, S. C. via LAX-Chicago-Washington, D. C.-Charleston and return the same route. Can someone tell me if I should be prepared for luggage search, back scatter etc. or enhanced pat downs? Can I opt out? Is this really happening now? Many thanks for any advice.


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## amamba (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! This has already been discussed here, and it seems that the general consensus is that the savannah screening (video on youtube) seems to be an anomaly.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 2, 2011)

I would guess that it's only a matter of time before trains suffer some sort of TSA related scanning. That's not to say it makes sense, it's only to say that the TSA procurement system has become a huge windfall for various security companies and there is no reason they won't use their profits to lobby for ever more invasive security measures. Maybe they'll come up with some sort of mobile x-ray scanner than can be carried on the train or something. In any case I don't foresee any serious opposition from today's ever more subservient population.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 2, 2011)

Excuse me, but you've gone too bloody far, Dax. Guinea pigs? They are far more intelligent and independently minded than the average American. I resent your insulting them.


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## Ryan (Mar 2, 2011)

Well yeah, but a picture of a rock wouldn't have been nearly as funny.


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## the_traveler (Mar 2, 2011)

Having "airport type security" may (but probably not) be used in cities like NYP, PHL, WAS, CHI or LAX. But those stations also are used by commuters! Where would they out the "security checkpoints"?



I can hear the employees asking their bosses



> Can I leave work every day at 1 PM, so I can get thru security and make my 5 PM train home?


It would not even be possible at all the unstaffed stations, or even at KIN where I can walk right from the car to the tracks without going into the station!


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## Acela150 (Mar 2, 2011)

Of what I've seen at PHL it's just luggage searches. It's done by the Rent a cops too. I think the TSA is just there to be there. That's my opinion. They just look through bags quick and that's it.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 2, 2011)

Down in Savannah it was report that they had a barricade up, and people on the outside to make sure you were post-trip screened. So when come to your station where you can walk up to the train from the park lot. There going to bring alot more people, just to make sure you get screened.

When they came for the family down the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family across the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family downstairs, I said nothing. When they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.

FYI: US Army 3rd generation. My German grandmother had an Jewish family hiding in her basement during WW2.

Edit for big finger little smart phone.


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## Acela150 (Mar 3, 2011)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Down in Savannah it was report that they had a barricade up, and people on the outside to make sure you were post-trip screened. So when come to your station where you can walk up to the train from the park lot. There going to bring alot more people, just to make sure you get screened.
> 
> When they came for the family down the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family across the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family downstairs, I said nothing. When they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.
> 
> ...


IMO your post make little to no sense at all. How do you check someone *AFTER* they traveled?? :huh: They don't do that at airports. So why would they do that at SAV??? :help:


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## bretton88 (Mar 3, 2011)

Ok, the TSA has apologized for the incident in Savannah. It was a drill that was supposed to be over by the time the train arrived. Except it wasn't. Some signals got crossed and soon everyone was being searched. A bad situation that got out of hand, but not the norm.


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## Acela150 (Mar 3, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> Ok, the TSA has apologized for the incident in Savannah. It was a drill that was supposed to be over by the time the train arrived. Except it wasn't. Some signals got crossed and soon everyone was being searched. A bad situation that got out of hand, but not the norm.


So it was a drill that went haywire. Interesting!


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## Spokker (Mar 3, 2011)

bretton88 said:


> Ok, the TSA has apologized for the incident in Savannah. It was a drill that was supposed to be over by the time the train arrived. Except it wasn't. Some signals got crossed and soon everyone was being searched. A bad situation that got out of hand, but not the norm.


You forget that the TSA is still doing drills for screening passengers before they get on a train. Airport style security, pat downs and all, is coming to Amtrak. It may be a random basis, perhaps at first, but it is coming.
If I see these checkpoints on the Surfliner or at Los Angeles Union Station, I will never ride trains again.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 3, 2011)

Acela150 said:


> IMO your post make little to no sense at all. How do you check someone *AFTER* they traveled?? :huh: They don't do that at airports. So why would they do that at SAV??? :help:


Wait, did you just say that they don't check people after traveling in airports? I take it you've never left the country then?


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## Anderson (Mar 3, 2011)

If what you're talking about is Customs, then I'd point out that varying degrees of screening there _far_ predates the Totally Stupid Administration's existence.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Mar 3, 2011)

daxomni said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > IMO your post make little to no sense at all. How do you check someone *AFTER* they traveled?? :huh: They don't do that at airports. So why would they do that at SAV??? :help:
> ...


Leaving a country is a totally different situation though. When you travel domestically no agent asks you the reason your traveling from Newark to I don't know lets just say Houston, and when you arrive in Houston your able to walk out of the airport, and rent a car, catch a bus, ect. When you fly, sail, drive, take a train, or walk into another country you are asked about the reason of your visit, which makes sense since odds are you aren't traveling internationally with no purpose. When you fly, sail, drive, take a train or walk back into the United States US customs officials ask you what you were doing in the foreign country. The TSA is the transportation security administration. There role would involve screening before you board transportation in the United States, they shouldn't be patting you down, as you leave the airport, or train station.


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## dart330 (Mar 3, 2011)

I just came across this article on Forbes.

"Newly uncovered documents show that as early as 2006, the Department of Homeland Security has been planning pilot programs to deploy mobile scanning units that can be set up at public events and in train stations, along with mobile x-ray vans capable of scanning pedestrians on city streets."

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/03/02/docs-reveal-tsa-plan-to-body-scan-pedestrians-train-passengers/


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## wayman (Mar 3, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> It would not even be possible at all the unstaffed stations, or even at KIN where I can walk right from the car to the tracks without going into the station!


Dave, it would absolutely be possible at KIN. They'll just put up barricades to funnel everyone through the checkpoint. It may slow things down tremendously -- ok, it definitely will slow things down tremendously. The station won't be staffed by Amtrak personnel; it will be open only for TSA use. TSA will hire thousands more employees as a result. (I mean, not just for KIN -- for every small station  )

Meanwhile, small bus-shelter stops with no structure like Exton will just be closed -- if you want to get to Exton, use SEPTA and transfer with Amtrak at Philadelphia. Lines like the Keystone may see drops in ridership as a result. Modest drops if it's just stations like Exton forced to get the cut; huge drops if the TSA actually says "we'll serve Philadelphia, Paoli, Lancaster, Elizabethtown, and Harrisburg. Cut everything else because it's unsecure."

What does this mean, ultimately? TSA hires more people means the number of federal employees goes way up, and the GOP can say "look at the numbers -- federal employment is way up, this is Democratic Big Government, let's vote them out!". (Lest you think this is crazy, the argument was trotted out last year when thousands of additional federal employees were Constitutionally-required temporary Census workers...) And loss of ridership means trains will be increasingly seen as unprofitable and impractical and funding will be cut by states and Congress, while air and highway pick up the money that would have supported rail.

Amtrak loses. America loses. And it's pretty much impossible to stop this trend.


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## dlagrua (Mar 3, 2011)

The American people can stop this trend of being humiliated and subjugated by the TSA thugs by just boycotting the aitlines. If this type of inhumane and degrading thing is applied to train travel then I become a car traveler 100%. Something must be done about this gross loss of human rights. It should be noted that the airport screening process has yet to intercept ONE potential terrorist out of million sof travelers since 911.

The TSA intrusion peobably won't go away as the American people have become spineless submissive sheep that will allow government to take away their rights and do anything to them that they please. I'll take a stand and say no way, not now, not ever will I submit..


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## jb64 (Mar 3, 2011)

dart330 said:


> I just came across this article on Forbes.
> 
> "Newly uncovered documents show that as early as 2006, the Department of Homeland Security has been planning pilot programs to deploy mobile scanning units that can be set up at public events and in train stations, along with mobile x-ray vans capable of scanning pedestrians on city streets."
> 
> http://blogs.forbes....ain-passengers/


I read that article this morning, too. Scary stuff when we are being scanned at any time, unknowingly, even if we are just walking down our own street minding our own business. I am all for smart security, but this has crossed the line in a major way.


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## wayman (Mar 3, 2011)

dlagrua said:


> The American people can stop this trend of being humiliated and subjugated by the TSA thugs by just boycotting the aitlines.


I wish that were even possible. Business travel requires airline use. Many businesses would die without it. For many people visiting family hundreds or thousands of miles away requires airline use. Spending most of their few vacation days on the road (or on the rails) simply isn't an option. As a result, people have to fly. It's an unfortunate reality.


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## MikefromCrete (Mar 3, 2011)

Just saw on TV that the TSA let a guy board a plane at LaGuardia Airport in New York carrying three box cutters (the same device used by the 9/11 hijackers) in his carryon. They were discovered when the cutters fell out of the bag when he was putting it in the overhead baggage area. Another top-notch job by the TSA.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 3, 2011)

jb64 said:


> I read that article this morning, too. Scary stuff when we are being scanned at any time, unknowingly, even if we are just walking down our own street minding our own business. I am all for smart security, but this has crossed the line in a major way.


Until large numbers of Americans are willing to stand up to this invasion of privacy the worse it will get. Exchanging flights for train tickets will NOT fix the underlying problem of an encroaching police state. Eventually "enhanced security measures" will come to trains and cars and whatever else they can think of. Already I'm forced to stop, answer questions, and be photographed by literally _dozens_ of cameras of various wave lengths just for having the gall to drive down Interstate 10. In the land of the "free," no less. We either need to change our policies or change our motto; the myth and the reality are no longer in any sort of harmony.


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## MattW (Mar 3, 2011)

Anderson said:


> If what you're talking about is Customs, then I'd point out that varying degrees of screening there _far_ predates the Totally Stupid Administration's existence.


Actually, he may be referring to situations like the Atlanta airport where arriving international passengers have to go through a tsa grope-point AFTER they've gone through customs and immigration. The jerks claim that international flights are "unsafe" so, because you have to go through "airside" to get back to curbside, you have to be re-screened even though international flight screening is supposed to conform to the standards set by the tsa. You can refuse to do so and get a LEO or tsa person to "escort" you through airside to curbside in theory. There's one story of a smaller airport (Scranton?) where a person after coming through customs refused to be subjected to the tsa just for reentring his own country and it took an hour or so (maybe longer) just to get and then convince a LEO to escort him through the sterile area to curbside.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 3, 2011)

MattW said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > If what you're talking about is Customs, then I'd point out that varying degrees of screening there _far_ predates the Totally Stupid Administration's existence.
> ...


Indeed. I've experienced the same thing at numerous other airports, either because they don't have connecting sterile areas or because they only connect in limited ways. Dividing security between terminals makes for extremely inefficient inspection procedures as one terminal will have dozens of TSA staff standing around while the next terminal over will be completely swamped with huge lines and no alternative entry points. Why are we so blind to our own inefficiencies and so resistant to correcting them?



MattW said:


> You can refuse to do so and get a LEO or tsa person to "escort" you through airside to curbside in theory. There's one story of a smaller airport (Scranton?) where a person after coming through customs refused to be subjected to the tsa just for reentring his own country and it took an hour or so (maybe longer) just to get and then convince a LEO to escort him through the sterile area to curbside.


I never knew you could request an escort to avoid repetitive searching. My guess is that most such requests would be denied and/or would result in additional screening. But maybe if I have some extra time some day I might make such a request and see what happens.


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## Tumbleweed (Mar 3, 2011)

Why do we not make more use of dogs? They can be trained to detect any kind of explosive, any time, anywhere.....If a terrorist is stupid enough to try something with just a knife or other non-explosive weapon, I think his fellow passengers would corral him quite quickly.....


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## Ryan (Mar 3, 2011)

Here is the guy's story - a great read, and more people should do what he did.

http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter


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## Railroad Bill (Mar 3, 2011)

I actually do not believe most Americans will go to the lengths that this gentleman went to in order to prove a point. This is one individual incident in which the police were not interested that day in getting involved. I personally do not want to waste two hours of my time playing these stupid games with TSA et al. In some cities they might have slapped the cuffs on you, taken you to the police station and then your attorney and you could hash it out there. 

This blog is useful in that it should be sent to everyone's Congressional representitive with a letter stating whether they approved of US citizens being harassed in this manner when they leave an airport. :angry:

I have called my US Senator and explained what is going on. His office stated they would look into this and agreed that this policy needs to be reviewed. Now if all of the thousands of members and guests of this group would do the same thing, there at least might be some interest in looking at this.

Just my two and a half cents


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## Tumbleweed (Mar 3, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Here is the guy's story - a great read, and more people should do what he did.
> 
> http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter


Perfect example of when the use of a sniffer dog would have defused the whole situation in seconds.....


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## Acela150 (Mar 3, 2011)

Long Train Runnin said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


That was my point. Thanks LTR. Yes I have never been as far as canada! :lol: I've been to the Canadian Rockies and that's it! I rode the Cascades. Sadly it was Superliner equipment to VAC.


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## Ryan (Mar 3, 2011)

Railroad Bill said:


> In some cities they might have slapped the cuffs on you, taken you to the police station and then your attorney and you could hash it out there.


I disagree, the police are usually very well trained - detaining someone without cause is a sure way to lose a lawsuit so they tread very lightly.
However, I do agree that most Americans are either too dumb to understand their rights or too lazy to exercise them.


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## the_traveler (Mar 3, 2011)

wayman said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > It would not even be possible at all the unstaffed stations, or even at KIN where I can walk right from the car to the tracks without going into the station!
> ...


OK, I'll accept your point about KIN, but how about the unmanned "stations" of Elko, NV (times of 9:31 PM and 3:03 AM) daily, Benson, AZ (times of 9:11 PM and 2:55 AM) 3 times a week or Needles, CA (times of 12:23 AM and 12:49 AM) daily. I'd hate to be the TSA agents assigned to those stops - there is not even a building there!


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## jis (Mar 3, 2011)

Long Train Runnin said:


> daxomni said:
> 
> 
> > Acela150 said:
> ...


Several points:

1. At the Customs check point at the point of entry into the US (at airports) a very small proportion of the incoming passengers are actually subjected to a baggage check.

2. US does not have any departure immigration checks, so no one asks you why you are going somewhere. The airline just makes sure that you have the appropriate travel documents so as to not face a fine from the destination country for bringing in someone who is not authorized to travel there. but they never ask why you are going somewhere. Well, while boarding a flight to Israel the secondary security barrier might ask you, but that is a special case.

3. When re-entering the US the immigration officer may ask you what you were doing while away from US, but in my experience, when I used to actually get processed by an officer they seldom asked me that at the airport entry points. They seem to ask that much more regularly at the land entry points. At the airport entry points equipped with GOES, if you are on the trusted traveler program, no one asks you anything. You just present yourself to the machine with your fingerprints and fill in the usual questions as in the normal customs form (well implicitly only those questions are asked I suppose, but no questions about where you were and what you were doing there - they already know where you are flying in from from the APIS record that they receive from the airline, and ask you to verify the information), and off you go with the entry authorization slip that the machine spits out. You present that slip, which just has a reference number, to the agent at the customs gate and off you go.

So in most cases you get the TSA treatment only at the TSA entry barrier in the US, and nowhere else in the US, irrespective of whether you are traveling domestically or internationally by air.

Crossing into US by rail is a different matter. I surmise that CBP has a special mean and nasty unit that is specifically assigned to checking trains.


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## Rafi (Mar 3, 2011)

Trains.com reported the following today:



> TRAINS exclusive: Amtrak police chief bars Transportation Security Administration from some security operationsBy Don Phillips
> 
> Published: March 3, 2011
> 
> ...


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## Gratt (Mar 3, 2011)

wayman said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > The American people can stop this trend of being humiliated and subjugated by the TSA thugs by just boycotting the airlines.
> ...



No but businesses can cut down on it by a large degree, behold the power of teleconferences :giggle:

airlines make their bread and butter from regular, frequent, business travelers. If they reduced their numbers (as many have) it will do serious damage to the industry.


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## Ryan (Mar 3, 2011)

Rafi said:


> Trains.com reported the following today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jis (Mar 3, 2011)

The relevant question to ask I think is: "Is the TSA capable of doing anything at all without having it transform itself into a major fiasco?". Each time they try to do anything they seem to create a new high bar for everyone who is trying to establish their own incompetence. This perhaps is the result of their sense of invincibility that is conveyed to them by us the people cowering in our own somewhat realistic but to quite an extent irrational fear of the unknown, unfortunately.

Considering how many visible mistakes they make, and knowing that only a small percentage of the total mistakes made actually become visible in a large organizational setup, and even more so for one that hides behind a veil of secrecy, the thought of what they will do when they have to deal with a real critical situation is very disturbing and sobering indeed.

By the way Amtrak's O'Connor is a very able officer. I have a lot of respect for him.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 3, 2011)

Chief John O'Connor meet the officer in Chicago at the town hall meeting. Mixed feeling about him. He seem an great chief, an straight shooter. However after give an talk about the rules and taking photos, of trains. He was ask about shooting shots of the station and grounds. He stated to have your ID ready. Glad someone is working this issue that has some weight.


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## Edgefan (Mar 3, 2011)

wayman said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > The American people can stop this trend of being humiliated and subjugated by the TSA thugs by just boycotting the aitlines.
> ...


For reasons too long to go into here, I made a decision when I stepped off an aircraft in the fall of 1997 to never get back on one again. I have held to that. I have worked out logistics of cross country travel without being funneled in a pressurized aluminum tube. Fortunately geography allows me to be anywhere in this great country inside of 48 hours. Given that, if I can find a low bucket meandering route, that's the one for me! I've found myself even closer to my country by keeping wheels, steel or otherwise, on the ground. My boss knows and understands my position (fortunately) and would never put me in a position that would force me to fly. As far as family and friends, all are within 30 minutes of an Amtrak station. Closer than I am! :lol:


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## TraneMan (Mar 7, 2011)

Looks like TSA blew someone's fuse!

Newswire.


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## Anderson (Mar 7, 2011)

Look, the heart of the problem is that while in theory you could, with a competent operation, more or less secure airline travel by simply securing airports, with rail travel you have tens of thousands of miles of physical track that have to be covered to keep things secure. Any terrorist with half a brain could probably dislodge a pair of railroad ties over a river or, if suicide is a part of the deal, pull a pickup truck in front of a train at a grade crossing (there are _how_ many of these across the country?) and do as much as anybody getting onboard could hope to do, if not more. In short, the TSA guys really can't do anything effective even if we give them a Ring of Competence +2.


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## alanh (Mar 8, 2011)

Complaining to the airlines is not going to do a thing. You have to complain to your congresspersons, and if they won't cooperate, don't vote for them. That's the only thing that's going to get the TSA under control.

As for post-flight screening, the issue is that you have access to your checked luggage at Customs, so you can get out your quart of brandy, lighter, and set of butcher knives and put them in your carryon bag. Because of this, you have to be rescreened before boarding another flight.

At some airports (like Atlanta), it's impossible to exit the airport without going back through the secured area.

The options are rescreen everybody and force ATL destined passengers to recheck their bags (what they do now); or apply carryon restrictions to all luggage; or construct a separate exit just for international arrivals destined for Atlanta. The last one is actually taking place; the new international terminal will have its own exit.


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## Anderson (Mar 8, 2011)

One thing that I think is being missed, to be fair, is the silence of the airlines in all of this. For all that they need to show a commitment to security (and a responsible commitment is a good thing, don't get me wrong), there have been enough screwups, enough reports and anecdotes released showing that the TSA is ineffective, and enough damage to their business that one would expect one or more of them, facing bankruptcy proceedings, to let loose on the TSA. I seem to recall a study showing that each round of TSA measures costs the airlines a not-insubstantial amount of business, likely focused in many "discretionary" markets (the NEC leaps to mind, but so do tourist trips that can be skipped).

It is true that they can't refuse to cooperate, but a very public lashing of the TSA (I'm thinking quiet suggestions of possible _Citizens United_-enabled ads might do the trick), with proper PR management, could force Congress's hand on this. Of course, for that matter so could the airlines being a bit more aggressive with testimony and press releases in general (I'm thinking the TSA announcing a new measure, the measure going over poorly, and the airlines savaging the measure), getting together and coming up with counter-proposals that are less intrusive, etc.

I also do understand that the main pressure point has to be Congress (and whenever a DHS confirmation comes up again, it's a point to raise...and there are also some actions states could probably take to make things more difficult on them), but I view the airlines as at least somewhat willing accomplices in this. They haven't said boo, and there's plenty of room for focused criticism that even lets the bigwigs off easy and savages "inept underlings" and narrow, specific unpopular procedures that they _should_ be able to raise with some vigor with Congressmen. I would say the same of the _airports_, who also have a stake in this, and who any hit to passenger traffic zaps in the pocketbook as well (via lost parking revenue and ripple effects on vendors). There are a lot of people being hurt by this who are remaining conspicuously silent: Airlines, airports, unions (I'll grant that the pilots' union stood up over the pilot screening, but that's not helping however many jobs they're losing to lost traffic), and municipal governments that have together invested billions of dollars in these facilities.

At least the head of the Amtrak Police has the backbone to stand up for himself and for Amtrak. That is more than can be said for _anybody_ in the airline industry over the last few years. Score another point, at least temporarily, for Amtrak and very much against the airlines.


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## jis (Mar 8, 2011)

Actually airlines have very little reason to complain at a strategic level. Prior to this it was a cost that airlines carried directly, a cost that Amtrak never had to deal with. The airlines were able to get rid of that cost and place it on the government. Why would they stir the pot that might land the cost back in their laps?

At a tactical level there is considerable discussions that go on way more regularly between the airlines and the TSA, than apparently between Amtrak and TSA. But that is not going to prevent a mismanaged outfit from doing random things. And so far no one has the courage to take on the possibility that should there be another attack after the TSA is figuratively neutered by someone, who is going to take the fall for it. It is all as simple as that.

The cause for earnings difficulties in the domestic market still is and has been first and foremost, overcapacity, though the airlines are now getting close to fixing that problem apparently. Also other than a couple of dedicated domestics, the rest are now making most of their profits (such as they are) on premium international flights. Besides on the whole, from an environmental perspective, is it such a bad thing if people who really don't need to fly stop doing so because of TSA or whatever?

Maybe someday TSA's shenanigans will rise to a point where they become a real issue. They apparently have not yet in general except for a relatively small minority of very vocal people, including me. Yes there is much noise generated after each incident, and the TSA backs off just sufficiently to calm everything down for the time being. Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.


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## Ispolkom (Mar 8, 2011)

jis said:


> Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.


Is that because the important thing was for TSA to purchase them, not to use them? The vendor gets paid the same, regardless of how much the darn things are used.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 8, 2011)

jis said:


> ...Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.


That's because the MCO scanners are being set-up in cooperation with Disney. When you exit the scanner you will be in a gift shop with scanner-themed souvenirs and will have the option to buy a commemorative 8x10 glossy of your scan plus wallet size copies for friends and family.


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## Ryan (Mar 8, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.
> ...


Sadly, I think that's correct (along with a side of getting to look tough "see, we have all these scanners!" without actually pissing people off by putting folks through them).


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## GlobalistPotato (Mar 8, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


Ah, I see! Both sides can be happy!


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## jis (Mar 8, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > ...Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.
> ...


Now now! I thought Disney was a family oriented outfit


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## tp49 (Mar 8, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > ...Notice that most of the full body scanners now stand mostly idle at most airports? Just yesterday I passed by a row of them in Orlando, and none of them were in use.
> ...


Pictures of the pat down would be so much more in demand


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## TVRM610 (Mar 8, 2011)

tp49 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
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I can see the future...

"And here is Timmy meeting Mickey Mouse, here he is riding dumbo, oh and look here is his first TSA enhanced pat down!"


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## Anderson (Mar 8, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> tp49 said:
> 
> 
> > PRR 60 said:
> ...


I had a discussion (only partly joking) with a professional massage therapist a few weeks back. I wonder how much folks would be willing to pay for a 30-minute massage, scheduled in advance, that came with line-skip privileges? Any decent professional massage is at _least _as thorough as an enhanced pat-down, and your back is less tense after the massage to boot.


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## the_traveler (Mar 8, 2011)

jis said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


The photos are family educating!








> Now we'll explain to you kids the difference between Mom and Dad and Jimmy and Sally!


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## AKA (Mar 8, 2011)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> When they came for the family down the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family across the street, I said nothing. When they came for the family downstairs, I said nothing. When they came for me, there was nobody left to say anything.
> 
> FYI: US Army 3rd generation. My German grandmother had an Jewish family hiding in her basement during WW2.
> 
> Edit for big finger little smart phone.



Not all on this forum will get the histroy of your statment. Not all are old enough. You did modify it to suit. However it put a chill down my back.


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## Ryan (Mar 8, 2011)

It's pretty popular, I think that us kids can dig it.


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