# New Amtrak Cancellation/Refund Policy



## PRR 60 (Aug 2, 2012)

Amtrak has posted a new, and more restrictive policy for cancellations and refunds. Here it is:



> A new refund and exchange policy will be in effect starting August 12, 2012. The key changes include:
> Passenger travel in a reservation is grouped into “logical trips.” Refunds will be applied to a logical trip - a grouping of continuous travel. Example: A booking Wilmington - Washington - Chicago - Seattle with same-day connections is one logical trip.
> 
> Refund fee is 10 percent of logical trip with a $5 minimum, $100 maximum.
> ...


New Policy


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2012)

But what about AGR awards?


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## DingDong (Aug 2, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> But what about AGR awards?


So there is now a refund fee if you miss your train (and were not travelling First Class or non-Acela Business Class).


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## Train2104 (Aug 2, 2012)

Does the whole fee system for getting the refund in cash still apply?


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## colobok (Aug 2, 2012)

What about reservations made before 08/12/12?

If I cancel them after 08/12/12 - will they charge me refund fee or not?


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## the_traveler (Aug 2, 2012)

Not the way I understand it. Up until 8/11/12, the current policy applies.


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## Anderson (Aug 2, 2012)

What about exchanges instead of refunds?


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## amamba (Aug 2, 2012)

Anderson said:


> What about exchanges instead of refunds?


This is a great question, especially for travel on the NEC with business people. Like when you get out of your meeting early and get to NYP and then switch to an earlier train so you don't sit around waiting for 2 hours. Can we assume that there is a 10% "change" fee (for cancelling a reservation in less than 24 hours before departure) in addition to paying the fare difference?


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## jerichowhiskey (Aug 3, 2012)

Very nice. I've been a bit hesitant to reserve my first trip on Amtrak since my group may reserve a van/bus for DC. It's good to know I may cancel without a fee applied.


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## colobok (Aug 3, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> Not the way I understand it. Up until 8/11/12, the current policy applies.


I am afraid that if I cancel after 8/12/12 they may charge me a fee.

I would like to see any written confirmation that my old reservations are still free to cancel.


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## Anderson (Aug 3, 2012)

amamba said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > What about exchanges instead of refunds?
> ...


I wouldn't assume either way.

The other thing that isn't clear is what is done with trip "cutbacks" (i.e. with the Wilimington-Washington-Chicago-Seattle trip, axing the Wilmington-Washington leg and driving into DC). Do I have to pay a fee on that whole thing?

The odd thing is that on some readings, this might actually be a liberalization of their refund policy

One other unclear point: With Acela FC, is only the accommodation charge handled separately, or are they basically throwing passengers a bone in an attempt to encourage an upgrade?


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## Anderson (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok, just called customer service. There's no fee involved if you get a voucher (at least per the lady I spoke with, who had apparently had to ask about the new policy earlier today herself), and you can still get that up until travel time.

In other words, I think this might actually be a liberalization of the refund policy for regular travelers.


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## amamba (Aug 3, 2012)

Well no fee for vouchers (rather than a refund) makes it sound like switching to an earlier train on the NEC would not involve a fee other than fare differential.


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## Anderson (Aug 3, 2012)

amamba said:


> Well no fee for vouchers (rather than a refund) makes it sound like switching to an earlier train on the NEC would not involve a fee other than fare differential.


Correct. And it also seems that if there were a differential in your favor, you'd be able to hold that in a voucher in your name.

As far as I'm concerned, this policy is a liberalization...it seems that you don't have to pay a refund fee for cancellations in advance by certain amounts of time (an improvement, since those used to require a refund fee and they seem not to now) and still never have to pay for "voucherizations" of paid fare as long as they're done ahead of travel time. _Not only that_, but though the policy is vague, it at least looks like you can cancel and get a refund for first class travel on the Acela _right _up until departure.


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## Acela150 (Aug 3, 2012)

I will call in a few days when everyone has learned about the policy. It doesn't make a ton of sense to ask Customer Service about a policy they just learned about themselves that we're just learning about. (Most likely) Unlike with the eTickets where they had months to be taught about it.


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## jis (Aug 3, 2012)

Now only if they could figure out a way to give Select+ customers an additional break like most airlines do to their most valued customers.


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## Steve4031 (Aug 3, 2012)

Pre boarding in Chicago would be a huge select + benefit IMHO.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 3, 2012)

Anderson said:


> As far as I'm concerned, this policy is a liberalization.


The vast majority of my travel with Amtrak is on sleeper tickets. Now instead of seven days before departure I'll have to cancel _fifteen_ days out if I want my money back. I also have to pay as much as $100 for the privilege of getting my money back whereas previously I could simply avoid printing anything and get it _all_ back without issue. So, at least for me, I'm not seeing any liberalization for the trips I take. Maybe you were talking about the _de jure_ policy instead of the _de facto_ process?


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## printman2000 (Aug 3, 2012)

Lets remember, there has been a refund fee specified for a long time. They just never collected it. It makes me wonder if they will actually begin collecting it now or if they will just continue to ignore their own policy.


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## jis (Aug 3, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I'm concerned, this policy is a liberalization.
> ...


I agree that it takes an incredible amount of mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion that this is a more liberal policy than the pre-existing de-facto policy as far as Sleepers are concerned. Indeed Amtrak is now uniformly worse than airlines when it comes to Sleepers which are the highest fare service. Most airlines will refund such a fare 100% with no cancellation fee.

Notice that where they actually compete with airlines - on the NEC - their policy is more in line with airline's policy for refundable fares.

At least now it will be less confusing from my friends visiting from Europe who could not fathom why a policy that says 10% cancellation fee does not apply even when the ticket is already paid for but the ticket has just not been printed out. That was very baffling for them, and I just asked them to trust me and go with the flow.  cancellation 24 hours before departure is something that is easier to understand than the previous convoluted de-facto policy.


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## colobok (Aug 3, 2012)

I just called about new cancellation policy and pretty rude lady told me that all sleeper trips with travel date after 8/12/12 will be the subject of 10% cancellation fee, regardless of when they were booked.

I asked for the confirmed source and she told me that SHE is the source.

I am still not sure she knows the truth, but if this is the case it will be pretty bad. Many people already have booked reservations for the future dates and they have no idea that they will not be able to get full refund if they cancel them after 8/12/12.

I would think that the new policy should not apply to old reservations.

Then I called AGR and they said AGR policy is not changing.


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## RRUserious (Aug 3, 2012)

Marvelous. That reminds me of the sleeper car attendant who gave me SUCH an attitude about there being no supper. I guess that's how some of the rank and file have decided to personally cope with the implosion of the system. "It aint my fault, so from here on the customer isn't right, *I* am right" And if Amtrak management can screw the customer, why can't I?


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## colobok (Aug 3, 2012)

So how to find out the truth?

I have several reservations booked for the next year and I am sure I will have to cancel one of them later,

but I don't want to lose $100 on that.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 3, 2012)

colobok said:


> So how to find out the truth?


I'd say that you just did. Would you feel better if you talked to another agent and got another answer? How would you decide that agent was more reliable?

The rules as written don't give any exception for trips booked before 8/12/12, IMHO. Given that, I canceled a trip in November that I'm almost certain not to make.



> Then I called AGR and they said AGR policy is not changing.


That's good news, if true. But why do you think the AGR agent is correct?


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## the_traveler (Aug 3, 2012)

colobok said:


> 1344030153[/url]' post='384883'].I asked for the confirmed source and she told me that *SHE* is the source.


That sounds like confirmation of what we thought!

The agents make up their own rules!


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 3, 2012)

colobok said:


> I asked for the confirmed source and she told me that SHE is the source.


I guess one could turn it around, and ask you to confirm what YOUR source is for thinking she was wrong?

If she instead told you what you wanted to hear, I am sure if later a different CS agent tried to withhold the 10%, you would have no problem saying "Mrs Smith" told me I would get a full refund, gladly making she the source. No?


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## Anderson (Aug 4, 2012)

You know, IF this is true, unless Amtrak sends out an email or otherwise seeks to contact the (probably several tens of thousands of) people potentially affected by this, I think a good lawyer could make a class action suit here on the grounds that Amtrak changed the terms of transportation after a purchase was made and didn't inform folks properly.

One thing that might be worth doing is sending an email and/or trying to get written confirmation of the policy one way or the other. Especially if multiple "logical trips" are involved, you would presumably at least have a strong appeal to a supervisor and a reasonable threat of a claim against them if you were misinformed in writing.

Edit: I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be one.


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## RRUserious (Aug 4, 2012)

I have to believe that somewhere in that clever little disclaimer is language that allows them to do whatever they bloody feel like.


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## Anderson (Aug 4, 2012)

RRUserious said:


> I have to believe that somewhere in that clever little disclaimer is language that allows them to do whatever they bloody feel like.


On the one hand it wouldn't surprise me; on the other hand, I can't find such an exemption on the website (at least, not on the policies pages), and I suspect that if somebody booked well in advance of this, they would at the _very_ least have an argument that Amtrak should have sent out a mass email to anyone with reservations, and tried to contact those folks with affected reservations but no email via phone or otherwise. The last bit is particularly important considering the decent number of older customers Amtrak has who, to put it politely, may not be the most internet savvy.


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## johnny.menhennet (Aug 4, 2012)

Anderson said:


> RRUserious said:
> 
> 
> > I have to believe that somewhere in that clever little disclaimer is language that allows them to do whatever they bloody feel like.
> ...


I agree that it is important for Amtrak contact to remain good with especially the older travelers, because as my grandma in San Jose puts it, she's technologically impaired! Not saying all are, but many certainly aren't afraid to admit it!


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## PRR 60 (Aug 4, 2012)

One problem is that Amtrak's posted cancellation policy always stated that refunds were subject to a 10% penalty. In practice they did not enforce that unless tickets were printed, but that was not posted anywhere in Amtrak's T&C's. Enforcing a 10% refund penalty now could simply be construed as adhering to the published but unenforced policy.

Having said that, I agree that moving to enforce that policy now with the only notice being on a deeply embedded web page is pretty sleazy. My guess that Amtrak's computer system has no means of differentiating between reservations based on booking date for application of the refund penalty, but, if true, that is a pretty poor reason to put the screws to your customers.


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## Amtrak George (Aug 4, 2012)

SLEEPER REFUNDS CONCERN ME: I haven't been able to tell from the new policy, but here are a couple of questions I'm concerned about:

1. If I have a trip planned on a sleeper and have to cancel (due to work schedule changes, illness, whatever) fourteen days out, do I still get a voucher for future sleeper travel?

2. If I cancel 14 days or less before travel, and either can't travel within a year or they won't give a voucher, and I have paid $3,000.00 in room charges, do I just have to eat that?


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## Joel (Aug 4, 2012)

How long do vouchers last? In order to use those vouchers, you have to be _physically_ at the station? Or may I use them thru the internet?


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## printman2000 (Aug 4, 2012)

I warned years ago that you should not count on Amtrak not enforcing their refund policy. They had a right to start doing it at any time. And that now SEEMS to be what they are doing.

However, we could find out that they will still not enforce the penalty even after this date. Time will tell.


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## amamba (Aug 4, 2012)

Joel said:


> How long do vouchers last? In order to use those vouchers, you have to be _physically_ at the station? Or may I use them thru the internet?


As of this point, I don't believe any vouchers can be redeemed online. You can redeem them via phone - I think. But I am 99.9% sure you cannot use the website to book tickets with a voucher.


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## GoldenSpike (Aug 4, 2012)

Anderson said:


> Edit: I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be one.


I was waiting for the rest of it..."...but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night"


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## Gingee (Aug 5, 2012)

I am totally confused. I have a sleeper round trip for the Christmas holidays. So say we have a snowstorm on Christmas (we leave the day after) and we can't get to the train station (forty miles away), what do we loose? Ten percent of the whole thing or what?


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## Shortline (Aug 5, 2012)

Gingee said:


> I am totally confused. I have a sleeper round trip for the Christmas holidays. So say we have a snowstorm on Christmas (we leave the day after) and we can't get to the train station (forty miles away), what do we loose? Ten percent of the whole thing or what?



Does not currently apply to you-You have your reservation, booked prior to the new rules. Current policies are in effect. If you book AFTER August 12th, the new policy will apply.


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## Anderson (Aug 5, 2012)

Shortline said:


> Gingee said:
> 
> 
> > I am totally confused. I have a sleeper round trip for the Christmas holidays. So say we have a snowstorm on Christmas (we leave the day after) and we can't get to the train station (forty miles away), what do we loose? Ten percent of the whole thing or what?
> ...


Well, it doesn't apply _this year_...what about next year, for those of us who take a trip (or several) more than once per year? For example, I take an annual trip out to Iowa. It's generally the same trip at the same time of the year (the only differences being, on occasion, origination location and whether I connect west via the LSL or Cap), and it usually involves the same general (weather-related) concerns.

The other issue that comes up: What about "returns" on a round trip (i.e. not part of the same "logical trip")? For a good example here, if I'm planning to go to Florida and a hurricane triggers a cancellation of my trip _there_, what about the trip back?


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## Anderson (Aug 5, 2012)

GoldenSpike said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be one.
> ...


lol...I'll try to remember that. Preferably some time when I _did_ just get stuck staying at one the night before


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## printman2000 (Aug 5, 2012)

Shortline said:


> Gingee said:
> 
> 
> > I am totally confused. I have a sleeper round trip for the Christmas holidays. So say we have a snowstorm on Christmas (we leave the day after) and we can't get to the train station (forty miles away), what do we loose? Ten percent of the whole thing or what?
> ...


You might not want to be so quick to say that. You could be right, but as I said, there has always been a refund fee (read the current policy right below the new one). Therefore, I see no reason why they would not charge refund fees for everyone *if they are going to start actually collecting them*.

Gingee, I would assume you would be able to cancel and get an evoucher for future travel as long as you cancel before departure.


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## colobok (Aug 5, 2012)

Shortline said:


> Gingee said:
> 
> 
> > I am totally confused. I have a sleeper round trip for the Christmas holidays. So say we have a snowstorm on Christmas (we leave the day after) and we can't get to the train station (forty miles away), what do we loose? Ten percent of the whole thing or what?
> ...


Please read OP. According to the agent new rules apply to everybody after 08/12/12 regardless of the purchase date!

I also sent email to Amtrak with this question, but no response so far...


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 5, 2012)

Maybe for this policy change management has decided to follow the tried and true, but unwritten, onboard policy of 'Let's make the rules up as we go along...'


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## alanh (Aug 5, 2012)

As for the "what if I can't get to the station" question, if the weather is really bad the train is probably running late too (heck, they often run late in good weather). I'm going to assume they're still going to waive the fee if the train is more than 2 hours late.

And yes, the "full refund if ticket isn't printed" is not a published policy. So don't count on that applying, and "ticket printed" in most cases now is meaningless. So if you do have any unprinted tickets you're thinking about refunding, you should do it soon.


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## Shortline (Aug 5, 2012)

colobok said:


> 1344182472[/url]' post='385192']
> 
> 
> Shortline said:
> ...


Just going by what I was told a few days ago when I booked. Agent said reservations booked before Aug 12 will be under the existing policy, those booked after the new policy goes in effect, will be under it. As with all things Amtrak, it seems to depend on which agent you talk to, but they would play hell trying to enforce a new policy not n effect at the time of booking.


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## Gingee (Aug 5, 2012)

I wish I could book our train trip for next July but it is too early. No bookings that far out.


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## Anderson (Aug 6, 2012)

So...I've had a couple of nightmares lately. For the most part, the gist is that I'm having to go through one of those "nightmare trip" situations where I'm having to re-schedule my trip repeatedly and getting slapped with a 10% penalty...and then going back and forth about how ridiculous the whole thing is, yadda yadda yadda, with the agent.

How lame is it that my nightmares are dealing with the arcana of Amtrak policies?


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## amamba (Aug 6, 2012)

I was told today that there is a 48 hour cancellation policy for an acela express first class ticket. ???

Seems the ticket agents have not been well trained at all.


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## jis (Aug 6, 2012)

amamba said:


> I was told today that there is a 48 hour cancellation policy for an acela express first class ticket. ???
> 
> Seems the ticket agents have not been well trained at all.


The announced policy is 0 hour. But of course why should anyone follow that? They should go about as usual inventing their own policies. Afterall it is Amtrak! :lol:


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## Martha Healy (Aug 13, 2012)

I am totally confused. I have previously purchased tickets coach HFD to WAS return in August which were paid for. Then Chi to Orlando/return in September on points. If I have to change or cancel either of these what happens? If I plan my February 2013 trip now (on points) and have to change it what happens?


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## PRR 60 (Aug 14, 2012)

Martha Healy said:


> I am totally confused. I have previously purchased tickets coach HFD to WAS return in August which were paid for. Then Chi to Orlando/return in September on points. If I have to change or cancel either of these what happens? If I plan my February 2013 trip now (on points) and have to change it what happens?


At least for now, the ability to cancel your Chicago to Orlando trip and get your points back is unchanged. If you have sleeper accommodations, you can get all your points as long as you cancel prior to scheduled departure. That is my assumption since changes have not been announced for AGR reservations. To be sure, you might want to call AGR and check.

For your paid Hartford to Washington trip, I assume you are using reserved coach. You can cancel that trip up to 24 hours before departure and get a full refund. If you after 24 hours prior to departure but before the scheduled departure, your refund is subject to a 10% refund fee ($5 minimum, $100 maximum). You can also get full credit toward future travel.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 14, 2012)

A heads up based on a posting at Flyertalk.

The special, 14-day advance purchase NEC fares are now 100% non-refundable from the moment of purchase. Previously you could get a refund as long as you did not print your ticket. Now, when you go to cancel one of these special discount fare reservations, your only choice is a non-refundable credit voucher. A refund is not offered.

When this fare is available for a particular date and train, Amtrak.com offers it as the only option. There is no prominent mention of the special terms of this fare. I can see the possibility of someone booking this fare not even knowing it is a special, non-refundable fare and getting a big surprise if the need to cancel.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 14, 2012)

PRR 60 said:


> A heads up based on a posting at Flyertalk. The special, 14-day advance purchase NEC fares are now 100% non-refundable from the moment of purchase. Previously you could get a refund as long as you did not print your ticket. Now, when you go to cancel one of these special discount fare reservations, your only choice is a non-refundable credit voucher. A refund is not offered. When this fare is available for a particular date and train, Amtrak.com offers it as the only option. There is no prominent mention of the special terms of this fare. I can see the possibility of someone booking this fare not even knowing it is a special, non-refundable fare and getting a big surprise if the need to cancel.


Amtrak is still not quite at the level of restricted ticking US airlines employ, but I think it's becoming more and more clear that's the direction they're intending to move toward. Should be interesting to see if all these changes have any impact on their customer numbers and/or on their bottom line.


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## gregoryla (Aug 14, 2012)

jis said:


> Amtrak is now uniformly worse than airlines when it comes to Sleepers which are the highest fare service. Most airlines will refund such a fare 100% with no cancellation fee.


Wow, based on my experience with airlines, the new Amtrak policy is still much more relaxed. Southwest will give credit towards a future flight, but all the other airlines I fly charge hefty fees for even the slightest change in itinerary and none will refund the fare.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 14, 2012)

gregoryla said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Amtrak is now uniformly worse than airlines when it comes to Sleepers which are the highest fare service. Most airlines will refund such a fare 100% with no cancellation fee.
> ...


You're correct with regard to airline coach travel, but *jis* is comparing Amtrak Sleeper service, a premium service, to airline First Class. While some airlines have non-refundable First Class fares, fully refundable First Class fares are far more common and can be booked as desired. Despite being a premium service class, Amtrak now does not offer a fully refundable Sleeper fare regardless of the fare bucket purchased.


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## Allypet (Aug 15, 2012)

Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers. Here is my reasoning. The other day I I booked 5 passengers and 2 rooms along with a vehicle on the AT, and if I cancel less then 15 days I will suffer worse then a coach passenger booked at the same time, (and depending on the bucket maybe the same price)! Here is some info from the Amtrak website:

*Sleeper Travel*: If canceled 15 or more days before travel, refund fee applies. If canceled 14 days or fewer before travel, but before actual travel, ticket is not refundable but the value may be applied within one year toward future travel. If not canceled before departure ("no show"), entire amount is forfeited.

*Reserved Coach and Acela Express Business Class*: If canceled more than 24 hours before scheduled departure, full refund. If canceled within 24 hours of departure or not canceled, refund fee applies.

*Vehicles (Automobile, Van, Motorcycle, Bicycle) and Carry-on Fees (Golf Bags, etc.)*: The refund policy is that of the passenger ticket with which the vehicle or carry-on fee ticket is associated. Example: Sleeper and automobile on Auto Train. The sleeper refund policy also applies to the automobile ticket.

*So here is a quick chart of possible cancellations;*

.......................................................................................... * Sleeper on AT*..................................... * Reserved Coach on AT*

Canceled more then 15 days.................................................10% penalty...............................................10% penalty

Canceled between 1 and 14 days............................................no refund, voucher only..............................10% penalty

Canceled less then 24 hours................................................. no refund, voucher only................................10% penalty

Not canceled at all (no show)..................................................100% forfeit................................................10% penalty

Plus what ever amount paid for the auto to travel is governed by the type of accommodation, so a coach passenger on the AT can get a auto refund less then 15 days, but a higher priced sleeper can't!

A coach passenger on the AT can ALWAYS get a cash refund, while a sleeper passenger most times can't.


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## Aaron (Aug 15, 2012)

Allypet said:


> Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers.


Considering that there is a much lower inventory of sleeper space available and each space in that inventory sells for a lot more than a coach space, it makes sense that Amtrak would want to provide a disincentive to cancellation of these spaces. It's far easier for them to sell another coach seat last minute than another sleeper space.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 15, 2012)

Aaron said:


> Allypet said:
> 
> 
> > Having just booked an AT trip and reading the new refund policy I think sleeper passengers are treated much worse then coach passengers.
> ...


Source?


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## Rail Freak (Aug 15, 2012)

> Wow, based on my experience with airlines, the new Amtrak policy is still much more relaxed. Southwest will give credit towards a future flight, but all the other airlines I fly charge hefty fees for even the slightest change in itinerary and none will refund the fare.



I had a reservation from Seattle to Yakima on Alaska Air. They wanted to charge me $100 for a change. The original ticket was only $71!!!


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## Aaron (Aug 15, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Aaron said:
> 
> 
> > Allypet said:
> ...


My posterior, mainly.

I don't have a real source but instead formulated a hypothesis based on my assumptions of everything from Amtrak riders' preferences to Amtrak yield management strategies to observations of the way other businesses run things. To use an exaggerated example, consider a busy restaurant that has an attached banquet room that they use for wedding receptions and the like. It's likely that if you make a reservation there and then cancel last minute or no show, you won't face any repercussions nor be asked to back up your reservation with a deposit or anything. They might be mildly annoyed, but they have many seats at many tables, and the table that was to be used for you will probably be used by someone else. However, if you want to reserve the banquet room, you'll be more likely to have to put up a deposit or something, because while you have it reserved, the restaurant has to turn away any other potential customer who wants it for the same evening. If you then cancel at the last minute, they're less likely to be able to fill that space because not only do they have a smaller inventory of banquet rooms, you've got a smaller pool of potential customers to sell it to since it costs so much more to rent the room than just eating at a table at the restaurant.

Another example: I like to cruise a lot. A lot of lines have a different deposit policy or cancellation policy for the higher end suites than for the majority of staterooms. Same principle applies. There are fewer of them, they cost a lot more, once they're booked the line has to turn away potential customers, upon a last minute cancellation they have to scramble to find someone willing to pay the extra. Sometimes they can and sometimes they end up discounting heavily just to fill it. They'd rather not have to discount, so once they've landed a paying reservation, they use policy to try to keep it.

I don't know whether sleeper passengers are less likely to consider a last minute trip than coach passengers, but that could play into it as well. Of course the Auto Train could have a different ratio of planners vs procrastinators than the rest of the system, but I would think the other principles still apply equally well there.

So, no hard source, but there's my justification for my position. Let it be known by anyone else reading my earlier contribution to this thread that my views are purely conjecture, represent my own opinion, and perhaps bear no similarity to reality. That said, if you or anyone else has any information, sourced or otherwise, that contradicts my position, I'd love to hear it!


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## Train2104 (Aug 15, 2012)

In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.


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## acelafan (Aug 15, 2012)

Train2104 said:


> In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.


I understand where you are coming from, but I think you need to give people some benefit of doubt; if I was unable to get in touch with Amtrak for whatever reason to cancel my trip at the very last minute I wouldn't want to be treated that way and forfeit my entire fare. Perhaps a penalty is in order but full forfeit is a little harsh. Occasionally emergencies do happen.


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## amamba (Aug 15, 2012)

Train2104 said:


> In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.


Considering that some tickets are auto-canceling future segments when they aren't scanned properly (yet pax are on train), this is a terrible idea.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 16, 2012)

acelafan said:


> Train2104 said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, no shows should forfeit the entire fare, no vouchers.
> ...


I don't understand where he's coming from at all. Nor has he bothered to explain it. Maybe we're supposed to read his thoughts? Kind of reminds me of a time I was selected for jury duty. This one juror wanted to throw the book at the defendant, who was indeed guilty so far as any of us could tell, but this particular juror couldn't be bothered to come up with a coherent explanation for why the penalty should be the absolute maximum possible amount. So we moved on to the rest of the jurors and eventually settled on a more moderate approach that resulted in a penalty that was more in line with our understanding of the events as they took place and the scope of the law that governed them. Amtrak was very lenient in the past, but full forfeiture would be a serious overreaction and a major miscalculation in my book. Not to mention that Amtrak has spent decades conditioning us to expect easy refunds and pain-free modifications. This may have won them more business in the past, but the more options they take away and the more fees they add the less incentive there will be for future converts.


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## Joel (Aug 16, 2012)

So then, if i cancel a reservation through the website, how long does it take to get my money back to the credit card?


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## amamba (Aug 16, 2012)

Joel said:


> So then, if i cancel a reservation through the website, how long does it take to get my money back to the credit card?


Generally 72 hours-ish. I think officially it is 3-5 days.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi..I would like to offer a comment and then a question...

I am really sad that Amtrak had decided to charge sleeping car passengers for cancellations, even though I understand perfectly why they are doing so. One of the reasons I have always been drawn to Amtrak travel was because it was more flexible than airlines.

So here's my question: Does anyone know if the bucket pricing system changed and if it is possible to still buy a sleeper onboard a train if a sleeper is available (and, of course, if the conductor wants to bothered to sell it to you?)

I am trying to figure out if it is better for me, in certain situations, to wait a bit closer to the time I acually travel and buy a sleeper, which more than likely will mean I will pay substantially more for it than if I bought it earlier (I know that isn't always the case, but in most cases, it is.). I also wonder if I wanted to take a chance and book a coach seat and then ask a conductor if a sleeper is available.

Just curious if others will change/modify their Amtrak sleeper habits because of the cancellation policy...

-- Jackie


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## printman2000 (Aug 29, 2012)

Yes, it is still possible to buy on board upgrades. As far as the bucket pricing system changing, I don't believe so. I have noted in another thread that the Southwest Chief prices were jacked way up for next year, but hopefully they will come down.

As I understand it, if you booked now and then found a lower price later, they should be able to refund the difference. But I have never done that so I am not absolutely sure how that works.


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## jis (Aug 30, 2012)

printman2000 said:


> Yes, it is still possible to buy on board upgrades. As far as the bucket pricing system changing, I don't believe so. I have noted in another thread that the Southwest Chief prices were jacked way up for next year, but hopefully they will come down.
> 
> As I understand it, if you booked now and then found a lower price later, they should be able to refund the difference. But I have never done that so I am not absolutely sure how that works.


Perhaps if Amtrak could do waitlisted upgrades on an availability basis at departure as many airlines and many railroads in other countries do, things would work out nicely. Some airlines with more capable IT systems even let you do a waitlisted upgrade using a mix of FF points and money. It proves to be a nice source of termporaryc ash for them since they collect the upgrade fee up front, and of course refund it if the upgrade does not come through.

This takes the Conductor out of the equation. The e-Ticket facility makes this easier to do. But it would require managing waiting lists for upgrades. Since airlines manage waitlists for flights anyway, doing another waitlist for upgrades to each class is not much of an additional hassle for them. Since Amtrak does not do waiting lists at all it will be new territory for Amtrak, should they wish to go that way.


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## AlanB (Aug 30, 2012)

Amtrak already does maintain waitlists for those wanting a sleeper when all sleepers are sold out; so frankly I wouldn't think that it's all that hard to add & maintain a second "price is too high waitlist" as it were.


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## amamba (Aug 30, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Amtrak already does maintain waitlists for those wanting a sleeper when all sleepers are sold out; so frankly I wouldn't think that it's all that hard to add & maintain a second "price is too high waitlist" as it were.


I would actually think it would be good to have an upgrade list for FC on acela. If they had a list of folks with status, I would even be willing to pay something like 1000-2500 points for a FC upgrade or perhaps $35ish (which is half price NYP - BOS).


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi. I am back to this topic today as my holiday plans are starting to take shape....

Two questions:

1. Has anyone cancelled a sleeper yet and been charged a fee since the new policy went into place?

2. I am confused when I read the policy: If I book a sleeper and then *change* the itinerary to a date where I travel in a sleeper, is the fee still in effect? Also, in those cases where I flat-out cancel within 15 days of travel, do I get a choice of how I receive my refund? It appears I only get it back in a travel voucher and not back in the original method of payment.

Thanks!

- Jackie, who is wishing she could afford her own train.


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