# Why Vancouver Sucks



## Anderson (Feb 6, 2015)

Having had the "joy" of driving in Vancouver over the last few days, I have to say...the city fathers of that city are in a tight fight with Pierre L'Enfant for creating the worst vehicular travel experience in North America. Granted, I can't speak to New York...but at least in the case of New York, the subway system is sufficiently omnipresent in the urban core as to render all other modes mostly unnecessary. DC also at least has, in its favor, a mostly-workable metro system and a clear plan to add several streetcar lines to fill in the remaining gaps. In short, downtown DC is quite workable. Vancouver, on the other hand, is just a pain in the arse to figure out.

There are a whole bunch of things I could kvetch about (the amazing number of no-left-turn streets probably at the top of the list, followed only by the fact that all of the _other_ left turns are unprotected), but the attitude of the cyclists there leaves a great deal to be desired...and that's putting it mildly. The cycle lanes basically get in the way of getting on/off a street, and when combined with trying to deal with opposite-direction traffic (trying to get on the "right" side of a street tends to be an exercise in non-Euclidean trip planning due to turn restrictions, and at peak travel hours is an exercise only for the brave and the bold) means you're going to cut somebody off (and deal with someone yelling at you in some fashion)...

...sort of like the crosswalk signals. It does seem that nobody in this fine city ever considered the fact that someone might actually _need to make a turn: _There are virtually no protected turn lanes, and whenever your signal is green to go forward (or, by connection, make a turn) that also means that the crosswalk signal _also_ says go, meaning that the odds of more than one car getting through at a time is vanishingly small...and when combined with the lack of a protected left anywhere, often means that turners are going to simply block the entire street.

This would not be as bad as it is if there were more capacity on the "belt" roads around Vancouver (or easier access to rental car facilities somewhere _not_ downtown and _not_ at the airport).


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 6, 2015)

Vancouver is the worst vehicular travel experience in North America but New York City and Washington D.C. get a pass while Southern California isn't even mentioned? Try driving in Mexico (also part of North America) and tell me what you think of Vancouver afterwards. In the end it's all just a matter of perspective I suppose.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 6, 2015)

Vancouver, WA, USA or Vancouver, B.C., Canada?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 6, 2015)

I've got to visit and see what's up. But I've heard that Mexico City is _wayyyy_ worse. And Vanocuver has SkyTrain. And lots of buses and trackless trolleys. And a bunch of ferry connections. And Vancouver's downtown area seems rather small (on a map) and walkable. I don't see the problem.


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## oregon pioneer (Feb 6, 2015)

Swadian, I agree with you. The best way to enjoy Vancouver is to avoid driving at all costs. The city just kind of grew, and they don't ever seem to have made a long-range plan for roads. But I found the public transit and walking experiences to be very enjoyable.


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## CHamilton (Feb 6, 2015)

Anderson is talking about Vancouver, BC. And oregon pioneer is correct: VAC is splendid to get around in if you avoid driving. The US could use a lot more places where people use transit because it's nicer, faster and more convenient than driving.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 6, 2015)

I agree with SH, Charlie and op about Vancouver Cliff! What you say about driving in Vancouvef is true, but it generally applies to All Large Cities! Mexico City is a Nightmare and here in Texas Houston,Austin and Sam Antonio aren't ever going to win any prizes for traffic engineering!( Atlanta, New Orleans and Boston are pretty bad too!!!)

The easiest Large City in North America in which to drive downtown IMHO is now Dallas, which is doing an excellent job of building a workable public transportation system in spite of a late start!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 7, 2015)

I agree on Dallas, I think they have an underrated transit system. Their light rail system is certainly not bad combined with the TRE and A-Train, not to mention a decent bus system. And for driving, there's lots and lots of freeways too.

If I were to compare Seattle and Vancouver, for example, their bus networks are similar as are their trackless trolley networks, rail transit is better in Vancouver, and the ferry systems are comparable. Highways are better in Seattle, but Seattle has a larger metro area.


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