# VIA......Updated .PDF Timetable



## NS VIA Fan (Jan 14, 2021)

VIA has issued a new PDF Timetable effective Jan 12/21



https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/VIARAIL_Timetable-2021_v20_Temporary_Schedule.pdf



The last timetable had included some additional Fri/Sun/Mon schedules between Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal but these have been eliminated......so now there are 3/day each way between Toronto and Ottawa and between Toronto and Montreal.

The Province of Quebec has a mandatory curfew between 8pm and 5am when you must be off the street so this led to some discussion if VIA would adjust their schedules. The Quebec Government clarified that travel directly to/from Trains, Airports and Intercity Bus Terminals would be permitted during the curfew hours.

The Canadian is still running weekly between Vancouver and Winnipeg......but It's 10 months now since the Ocean has run and no sign yet of it returning anytime soon. There is still a mandatory quarantine at the New Brunswick-Quebec and New Brunswick-Nova Scotia Borders


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## Exvalley (Jan 14, 2021)

One of these days I will get to ride the Ocean. I had reservations in May and October - both of which were obviously cancelled.


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 3, 2021)

There's another reduction in VIA's Corridor Schedules effective yesterday (Feb 2)



https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/VIARail_Timetable_TEMP.pdf



Montreal <> Quebec drops to 1/day each way from 2. (runs thru to/fr Ottawa)
Montreal <> Ottawa now 2/day each way from 3
Montreal <> Toronto now 2/day each way from 3
Ottawa <> Toronto now 2/day each way from 3
Toronto <> Windsor stays at 2/day each way
Toronto <> Sarnia stays at 1/day each way


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## jiml (Feb 3, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> There's another reduction in VIA's Corridor Schedules effective yesterday (Feb 2)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it had been quiet yesterday and today (living close to level crossing).


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 3, 2021)

jiml said:


> I thought it had been quiet yesterday and today (living close to level crossing).



Not sad at all !! 

People are doing just what they are suppose to be doing. Staying Home! And if they're staying home no need for those additional trains.


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## jiml (Feb 3, 2021)

I hear you and am certainly not traveling under our current stay-at-home order, but disagree with the concept of cutting service. If you follow that logic why run any trains at all? Just like Amtrak, each cut from an already skeletal schedule gives people the opportunity to find another way of getting where they need to go, making them less likely to return. They're down below 20% of normal corridor service and schedules have been lengthened even more to permit almost "milk run" stopping on every train rather than just a few. Both things make for a less-attractive option for those who must (or choose to) travel. When the cash-strapped Feds start to dig out from this mess, I would hate to see VIA on the wrong side of the ledger when they attempt to ramp back up. While the US may have "Amtrak Joe", I'd be very surprised if Justin and his "woke" limo and private jet users have ever seen the inside of a passenger train.


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## neroden (Feb 14, 2021)

VIA's situation worries me. Management has practically abandoned the Canadian as a mode of transport, relegating it to a cruise. It seems to have abandoned the Ocean entirely, although they still talk of resuming it, and I worry that that's going to lose VIA crucial support in Parliament -- what's in it for the Maritimes now? VIA's abandonment of the Island Line and the Gaspe line has clearly also lost parliamentary support. 

The remote services which they are required to run by law are of course money pits, but even more so when they lack connections to any other trains.

They've cut back the "Corridor" trains to an absolutely skeletal level. In their report, they warn that they lack secure access to Montreal Central Station, and sure enough, CDPQ seems to be treating VIA like someone they want to get rid of and don't want to listen to. (This behavior by CDPQ is also obstructing progress on the Montreal preclearance facilities for the Adirondack and the Montreal extension of the Vermonter.)

While the current VIA management has definitely made some good proposals -- they recognize that they really need to own their own track, at least somewhere, starting between Toronto and Montreal -- where are they going to get the parliamentary support?

Trudeau isn't *opposed*, but he isn't Amtrak Joe either.

If you read VIA's 2020-2024 corporate plan, the only agency they're getting real cooperation from is Metrolinx.

Here's hoping they finally get their High Frequency Rail funding; from Trudeau's government: a passenger-only corridor from Toronto to Ottawa to Montreal would finally give them a chance to get out of the death spiral. But Trudeau's government seems uncommitted. :-(


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 14, 2021)

neroden said:


> VIA's situation worries me. Management has practically abandoned the Canadian as a mode of transport, relegating it to a cruise. It seems to have abandoned the Ocean entirely, although they still talk of resuming it, and I worry that that's going to lose VIA crucial support in Parliament -- what's in it for the Maritimes now? VIA's abandonment of the Island Line and the Gaspe line has clearly also lost parliamentary support.



It's not as simple as just running a train and hoping passengers will want to ride. There are restrictions on where you can travel here in Canada.

Where Can I Travel Right Now? - Canadian Travel & Tourism Roundtable

Someone arriving home in Manitoba on the Canadian from say Saskatoon or Edmonton is required to isolate for 14 days.

If the Ocean was even running....I cannot travel from Nova Scotia to New Brunswick unless it's for essential approved travel. And arriving home in Nova Scotia I would have to quarantine.

Montreal and Toronto.....end point cities in VIA's Corridor have the most restrictions in their respective provinces. For example.....Montreal has a curfew from 8pm to 5am









Measures in force


Consult the measures for certain areas of activity that are at risk of transmission (COVID-19). Such sectors are subject to selective restrictions.




www.quebec.ca





And BTW.....unlike the Island Corridor on Vancouver Island there is major work happening in the Gaspe

Here's a web page (its bi-lingual) with photos of the new construction. Work has now started on the Port Danial Bridge and if you scroll down there's photos of a completely new bridge at the Cascapedia River including a video. There's also been lot's of new ties installed and reballasting.

https://www.gaspetrain.org/


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## jiml (Feb 14, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> It's not as simple as just running a train and hoping passengers will want to ride. There are restrictions on where you can travel here in Canada.
> 
> Where Can I Travel Right Now? - Canadian Travel & Tourism Roundtable
> 
> ...


Good summary.


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## jiml (Feb 14, 2021)

I'll just supplement the excellent info above with some personal comments. I live right on the VIA corridor between Toronto and Montreal and pre-Covid we had 34 trains a day passing our level crossing. Now there are 4. I'm in an area with fewer restrictions, but frankly there's no place to go. Almost everywhere I have friends or family is either locked-down or restricted for travel. No reason to go to Montreal and be stuck in a hotel because of their curfew, not to mention reduced hotel services. Toronto is still a relative hot-spot with a stay-at-home order. I could fly somewhere, but even if the flying itself wasn't risky there's still security lines and no onboard service, while prices remain fairly steady due to fewer flights. 

I'm concerned that people here are just learning to live without decent rail service, and when things start to get back to "normal" VIA is not going to be a high priority for a broke federal government and emerge a shadow of its former self. The Province of Ontario has expressed concerns about the lack of remote services here - both pre-pandemic and more recently. (The Canadian served a lot of northern communities in this province and has not resumed east of Winnipeg.) Unfortunately they're not really in a position to add services either.

Most Canadians under age 70 won't be vaccinated until this summer or later, which doesn't bode well for a quick travel recovery in the short term. Barring a third wave of Covid, the situation for travel in the US (Amtrak and other modes) is considerably more optimistic than here.


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 14, 2021)

I wouldn't be surprised if VIA is trying to get some money from Ontario to operate the Canadian from Winnipeg east as a form of subsidy. I don't think it is right but it wouldn't be the first railroad to do that.


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## jiml (Feb 15, 2021)

There's a few markets for "403b" services, but it certainly would be unprecedented. Our (Ontario) Premier had talked about reviving Ontario Northland Rail (a very good product) to fill in gaps in national service, as well as routes they had previously served until cut by previous governments. Of course that was pre-Covid...


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 15, 2021)

jiml said:


> There's a few markets for "403b" services, but it certainly would be unprecedented. Our (Ontario) Premier had talked about reviving Ontario Northland Rail (a very good product) to fill in gaps in national service, as well as routes they had previously served until cut by previous governments. Of course that was pre-Covid...



I made several trips on the _Northlander_ around 2007 > 2011 and my comments here are certainly anecdotal.... but one Friday evening we had a fairly good load as far as North Bay but nothing more than what a bus could have handled north of there and it was like that most trips. One trip they could have easily put us all in a taxi for Cochrane.

What might be an option is weekend GO Trains to Gravenhurst/Bracebridge/Huntsville similar to the Niagara trains using spare GO equipment on weekends.

Too bad the Newmarket Subdivision beyond Barrie was abandoned as it was the more populated route. Not the Bala Sub now up the east side of Lake Simcoe.

And perhaps Barrie – Collingwood in the future? I believe the track north of Utopia is still in place but not in use. If it was ever reactivated a similar GO weekend service could operate beyond Allandale-Waterfront with maybe a Ski Train to Blue Mountain!!


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## jiml (Feb 15, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> I made several trips on the _Northlander_ around 2007 > 2011 and my comments here are certainly anecdotal.... but one Friday evening we had a fairly good load as far as North Bay but nothing more than what a bus could have handled north of there and it was like that most trips. One trip they could have easily put us all in a taxi for Cochrane.
> 
> What might be an option is weekend GO Trains to Gravenhurst/Bracebridge/Huntsville similar to the Niagara trains using spare GO equipment on weekends.


Ditto your experience with the Northlander, however there certainly was a market south of North Bay as evidenced by the scheduled Friday and weekend trains that only went that far, despite using ONR equipment intended for use further north. The converted GO equipment wasn't as comfortable, but had greater capacity. At least they managed to squeeze food service into them - something that would be a limitation using current GO equipment outside their traditional routes. (GO was looking into some cafe conversions as their reach expanded, including the failed Windsor experiment, but that's a story for another day.)



NS VIA Fan said:


> Too bad the Newmarket Subdivision beyond Barrie was abandoned as it was the more populated route. Not the Bala Sub now up the east side of Lake Simcoe.
> 
> And perhaps Barrie – Collingwood in the future? I believe the track north of Utopia is still in place but not in use. If it was ever reactivated a similar GO weekend service could operate beyond Allandale-Waterfront with maybe a Ski Train to Blue Mountain!!


Yes, the Canadian lost several key stations in switching to the Bala Sub, which traverses basically unpopulated farmland. There's a gap in the track somewhere in your latter suggestion IIRC. I'm overdue getting in touch with someone who will know for sure, so this may warrant further research. 

The current Ontario government was seen as very pro-rail before and just after their election. Several large and smaller scale projects were "floated" as ideas, with some actually resulting in action - although not much beyond the study stage. Now of course we're in a very different reality and Ontario has no more money than the federal government, which will likely push passenger rail well down on everyone's priority list.


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## Barb Stout (Feb 15, 2021)

Have the Covid19 new case rate dropped in Canada like it has in the US (by 60%) or has it changed much from/in the past few months?


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## jiml (Feb 15, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> And perhaps Barrie – Collingwood in the future? I believe the track north of Utopia is still in place but not in use. If it was ever reactivated a similar GO weekend service could operate beyond Allandale-Waterfront with maybe a Ski Train to Blue Mountain!!



You might be onto something with the Barrie - Collingwood idea - especially on weekends during ski season. Fairly straight shot from tracks in place at Allandale GO on the Barrie Collingwood Railway to its crossing of CP's MacTier Sub. The severed track section that I was thinking of is now part of the North Simcoe Rail Trail and connected those tracks with MacTier further north. However the Barrie Collingwood trackage has not been used west of MacTier Sub in many years, so none of the route is likely up to passenger standards. That said, I'm all for it - not my money.


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## Brian Battuello (Feb 15, 2021)

Glad I took the Canadian twice when I could. Would do it again in a minute. A reminder that nothing lasts forever...


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## Exvalley (Feb 15, 2021)

I missed the Ocean by a whisker. I had a reservation in May, 2020 and rescheduled for October, 2020. I finally gave up and got a refund.


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 15, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Glad I took the Canadian twice when I could. Would do it again in a minute. A reminder that nothing lasts forever...





Exvalley said:


> I missed the Ocean by a whisker. I had a reservation in May, 2020 and rescheduled for October, 2020. I finally gave up and got a refund.



I certainly wouldn't count the Canadian or Ocean out yet. The Canadian is currently running once weekly between Vancouver and Winnipeg only. You remain in your room and there is no access to the Dome. You must quarantine when you enter Manitoba unless you are connecting to depart the province immediately.

The Ocean is not running due to border restriction with a 14 day quarantines req'd between Quebec & New Brunswick and between New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.


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## Exvalley (Feb 15, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> The Ocean is not running due to border restriction with a 14 day quarantines req'd between Quebec & New Brunswick and between New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.


I wish that I traveled on the Ocean when they still could turn the train in Halifax.


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## toddinde (Feb 15, 2021)

I rode both the Super Continental and the Canadian in the ‘70s, as well as the CN’s Cavalier and the Toronto-Windsor train. All seemed long and well patronized. The Cavalier was busy, and seemed to have four or five sleepers. The more a system shrinks, the less ridership it will have. The Canadian and the Ocean need to run daily. The system needs more service and thruway bus connections. It ends up costing less to operate a useful, usable and well patronized system than a skeletal shell. VIA has some things going for it; wonderful employees and amazing customer service.


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## OBS (Feb 15, 2021)

toddinde said:


> I rode both the Super Continental and the Canadian in the ‘70s, as well as the CN’s Cavalier and the Toronto-Windsor train. All seemed long and well patronized. The Cavalier was busy, and seemed to have four or five sleepers. The more a system shrinks, the less ridership it will have. The Canadian and the Ocean need to run daily. The system needs more service and thruway bus connections. It ends up costing less to operate a useful, usable and well patronized system than a skeletal shell. VIA has some things going for it; wonderful employees and amazing customer service.


I loved the Cavalier!


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## PaTrainFan (Feb 15, 2021)

OBS said:


> I loved the Cavalier!



Ditto!


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## Willbridge (Feb 15, 2021)

toddinde said:


> I rode both the Super Continental and the Canadian in the ‘70s, as well as the CN’s Cavalier and the Toronto-Windsor train. All seemed long and well patronized. The Cavalier was busy, and seemed to have four or five sleepers. The more a system shrinks, the less ridership it will have. The Canadian and the Ocean need to run daily. The system needs more service and thruway bus connections. It ends up costing less to operate a useful, usable and well patronized system than a skeletal shell. VIA has some things going for it; wonderful employees and amazing customer service.


I posted this once before but it fits with your comments. Somehow VIA managed to run down from two transcontinental trains a day to one a week. My brother took the attached photo of the _Super Continental _when he visited us in Edmonton.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 16, 2021)

jiml said:


> I'll just supplement the excellent info above with some personal comments. I live right on the VIA corridor between Toronto and Montreal and pre-Covid we had 34 trains a day passing our level crossing. Now there are 4. I'm in an area with fewer restrictions, but frankly there's no place to go. Almost everywhere I have friends or family is either locked-down or restricted for travel. No reason to go to Montreal and be stuck in a hotel because of their curfew, not to mention reduced hotel services. Toronto is still a relative hot-spot with a stay-at-home order. I could fly somewhere, but even if the flying itself wasn't risky there's still security lines and no onboard service, while prices remain fairly steady due to fewer flights.
> 
> I'm concerned that people here are just learning to live without decent rail service, and when things start to get back to "normal" VIA is not going to be a high priority for a broke federal government and emerge a shadow of its former self. The Province of Ontario has expressed concerns about the lack of remote services here - both pre-pandemic and more recently. (The Canadian served a lot of northern communities in this province and has not resumed east of Winnipeg.) Unfortunately they're not really in a position to add services either.
> 
> Most Canadians under age 70 won't be vaccinated until this summer or later, which doesn't bode well for a quick travel recovery in the short term. Barring a third wave of Covid, the situation for travel in the US (Amtrak and other modes) is considerably more optimistic than here.


How are the Hockey Teams in Canada Operating as to Travel Restrictions/ Quarantine Rules/ Testing/Curfews etc.? ( The Bubble they used during the NHL Playoffs seemed to work, just like the NBA in Orlando)

The Blue Jay's werent allowed to play in Canada during the past Season, does Hockey have an exemption since its Canada's National Sport?


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## jiml (Feb 16, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> How are the Hockey Teams in Canada Operating as to Travel Restrictions/ Quarantine Rules/ Testing/Curfews etc.? ( The Bubble they used during the NHL Playoffs seemed to work, just like the NBA in Orlando)
> 
> The Blue Jay's werent allowed to play in Canada during the past Season, does Hockey have an exemption since its Canada's National Sport?


All-Canadian division, so no cross-border travel. Teams all quarantined before start of season during training camp. Then they're also playing a "baseball-style" schedule - go to one city, play several games in a row. For example, Toronto played Ottawa last night, then again tomorrow and Thursday. Also, no fans in stands.


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## Exvalley (Feb 16, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> How are the Hockey Teams in Canada Operating as to Travel Restrictions/ Quarantine Rules/ Testing/Curfews etc.? ( The Bubble they used during the NHL Playoffs seemed to work, just like the NBA in Orlando)
> 
> The Blue Jay's werent allowed to play in Canada during the past Season, does Hockey have an exemption since its Canada's National Sport?


My understanding is that some special exemptions have been given to NHL teams. For example, they are allowed to work out in gyms whereas the general public is not.


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## Willbridge (Feb 16, 2021)

jiml said:


> I hear you and am certainly not traveling under our current stay-at-home order, but disagree with the concept of cutting service.-- -------------- when they attempt to ramp back up. While the US may have "Amtrak Joe", I'd be very surprised if Justin and his "woke" limo and private jet users have ever seen the inside of a passenger train.



I think that Justin was on the train in 1982 when his father made an obscene gesture to raucous demonstrators gathered outside his business car in Salmon Arm. This was less than a year after the brutal Pepin cutbacks and so we supposed that Trudeau père wanted his boys to experience a train ride before they were all gone. Of course, they were probably traveling in one of the Governor General's cars.


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## NS VIA Fan (Feb 17, 2021)

The Prime Minister also took his Father's Remains home from Ottawa to Montreal in a Park Car on a VIA special Funeral Train.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 17, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> I think that Justin was on the train in 1982 when his father made an obscene gesture to raucous demonstrators gathered outside his business car in Salmon Arm. This was less than a year after the brutal Pepin cutbacks and so we supposed that Trudeau père wanted his boys to experience a train ride before they were all gone. Of course, they were probably traveling in one of the Governor General's cars.


I remember that well, was in Vancouver then.

The Media was all over this, even the CBC played it up!


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