# Maglev in the NEC?



## The Davy Crockett

Here we go again... 

From this article in the Baltimore Sun:



> Maglev is back, tantalizing Marylanders with the promise of speeds that could whisk train passengers from Baltimore to Washington in 15 minutes.
> 
> What is billed as a new generation of magnetic levitation technology is at the heart of the latest proposal, the first step in what would eventually be a line taking passengers from Washington to New York in 60 minutes at a cruising speed of 311 mph.
> 
> The proposal resurrects a technology that seemed to be the next big thing in the late 1990s and early 2000s before fizzling out amid concerns over its cost, the difficulty of putting together a suitable route and its potential effect on neighbors.
> 
> Many of those hurdles remain, but an investment group headed by a former chair of the Maryland Democratic Party and backed by former politicians of both parties is pushing a new version of maglev. The group is seeking financial, community and political support for a project called TNEM — for The Northeast Maglev.
> 
> “The technology itself has progressed,” Wayne Rogers, chairman of TNEM and a former state Democratic chairman, said in a presentation to The Baltimore Sun this week. “We as Americans never picked up on it.”
> 
> Supporters of the maglev concept have long seen it as a game-changer for Baltimore, bringing the city closer to the capital and making it a more attractive place for businesses that deal with the federal government to locate. The latest proposal includes stops in the city and at Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport.
> 
> Whether the United States will embrace the project any more warmly than it did in the early 2000s, when then-Mayor Martin O’Malley and others were intrigued by the prospect, is debatable. Even if the technology operates superbly, the project faces numerous obstacles.
> 
> Rogers, chairman of the Synergics energy company in Annapolis, estimated that building the Baltimore-D.C. segment alone would require “somewhere north of $10 billion.” But the extensive tunneling that would put more than 30 of its roughly 40 miles underground, avoiding Linthicum and other neighborhoods affected by an earlier plan, could drive the cost higher. By Rogers’ own estimates, tunneling costs alone could reach $4.5 billion to $6 billion.
> 
> Unlike past proposals, the TNEM group says it can count on financing from a Japanese government bank, reflecting Tokyo’s eagerness to launch the new superconducting maglev technology — developed by Japan Central Railroad — in the U.S. Northeast Corridor.


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## George Harris

I still regard maglev as a solution looking for a problem.


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## Anderson

I think it's fair to say this one's a floater.


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## The Davy Crockett

Anderson said:


> I think it's fair to say this one's a floater.


Agreed... Yet it is amazing how many 'non-participants' have lent their name to the project...


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## Tokkyu40

George Harris said:


> I still regard maglev as a solution looking for a problem.


Long distances in open country. In Japan they're making their own open country by tunneling under the intervening towns. Pricy, but they need the performance to keep up with the demand.

Here we need high speed light-weight diesel electric multiple units at 125 mph to make the long distances practical while we build up the network. We'll advance once we catch up to the 20th century.


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## CHamilton

Speedy D.C.-N.Y. train faces high hurdles



> Spearheaded by The Northeast Maglev, the project has backing so far from U.S. and Japanese investors and boasts a high-powered advisory board that is headed by former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and includes former Transportation Department secretaries from Republican and Democratic administrations — Mary Peters and Rodney Slater — as well as former Govs. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania and Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey.
> The plan calls for a line to be built in stages with the first leg constructed between Washington and Baltimore, which includes a stop at BWI Airport. The travel times are eye-popping: Floating inside a U-shaped guideway on ultra-powerful magnets, the superconducting maglev train would reach 311 miles per hour and shuttle riders from Washington to the airport in about eight minutes. That compares with drive times that can easily top an hour in bad traffic.
> But such an ambitious goal raises questions about financing, route siting, rights of way and other local concerns. And that doesn’t include the political issues around a line that could present a direct challenge to Amtrak’s crown jewel, its Northeast Corridor service.
> Amtrak President and CEO Joe Boardman said he’s “positive” about the plan for the technology, which has been tested on a short track in Japan, but that it faces a number of high hurdles; chief among them are time and money.
> “Does it get done in a hurry? No,” Boardman said in an interview. The first leg is projected to take three years just to go through the regulatory process and another seven for construction. And that doesn’t take into account any of the inevitable speed bumps that arise with a major infrastructure undertaking.


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## CrazyDave

Maglev's greatest advantage for US HSR being 100% free of FRA **** impeding it's capability to reach top speed. It's disadvantage is the requirement of special tracks that may be incompatible with existing stations. Improved designs could create highly efficient and ultra fast trains that can be routed directly into existing stations in urban areas while still using their own track. Development of Maglev technology should not be scoffed at as a pipe dream. All that is needed to perfect the technology already exists in archives of forgotten research kept hidden for lack of financial vision.


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## Ryan

CrazyDave said:


> Maglev's greatest advantage for US HSR being 100% free of FRA **** impeding it's capability to reach top speed.


Also true of unicorns, teleporters and magic pixie dust.

Just about as realistic, too.


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## Eric S

Are we sure that maglev (and unicorns, for that matter) is completely outside FRA jurisdiction?


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## George Harris

CrazyDave said:


> Maglev's greatest advantage for US HSR being 100% free of FRA **** impeding it's capability to reach top speed. It's disadvantage is the requirement of special tracks that may be incompatible with existing stations. Improved designs could create highly efficient and ultra fast trains that can be routed directly into existing stations in urban areas while still using their own track. Development of Maglev technology should not be scoffed at as a pipe dream. All that is needed to perfect the technology already exists in archives of forgotten research kept hidden for lack of financial vision.


The Japanese are planning to build a maglev line. Their system is quite good. It also meets the safety requirements related to evacuation, which the German system (the one used in Shanghai) does not. Japan has a serious capacity problem on their existing Shinkansen line south out of Tokyo which is this line is intended to relieve. One of their comments is that the energy consumption is about three times that of the Shinkansen trains. The maglev line is much straighter.

There are several issues other than just FRA. There is this thing called the ADA which definitely does apply to Maglev (see 49 CFR Part 38, 38.175) There is also the NFPA concerning fire safety, emergency egress, etc. Then there are also the basic laws of physics affecting such things as reasonable curve radii, energy consupmtion with increased speed and on grades, aerodynamic resistance, to name a few. (Aerodynamic resistance increases with the square of speed. In other words double the speed and aerodynamc resistance increases by a factor of four. Aerodynamc resistance is already the main component of in train resistance at current high speed rail speeds.) NIMBY resistance is unlikely to go away jsut because it is a maglev instead of regular rail. Neither will cost of construction of structures and tunnels likely decrease jsut because it is maglev instead of regular rail.

There is a point with increasing speed that the ability to apply sufficient power to the rail by adhesion meets the resistance of the train to movement. Above that point then something other than wheel on rail adhesion will be needed to go faster. It is just that no one knows where that point is as yet, and 50 years ago that point was thought to be at a lower speed than the current high speed trains run. Until we have alignments that permit that speed, the demand that justifies it and the determination and finance to build the lines that can handle it, Maglev remains a solution looking for a problem.


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## CHamilton

Japanese railway operator to offer maglev tech to US for free




> JR Tokai's maglev train, seen here running on a test track, can travel as fast as 500kph.
> 
> 
> NAGOYA -- Central Japan Railway does not plan to charge licensing fees in the U.S. for technologies for its maglev train, aiming to promote the system for a proposed high-speed rail line between Washington and Baltimore.
> 
> The railway operator, known as JR Tokai, hopes to have its magnetic-levitation train chosen for the U.S. government's plan to connect the capital and Boston with a high-speed line spanning about 730km. The proposed 60km link to Baltimore is seen as the first phase.
> 
> To help defray the expense, the Japanese government intends to finance half of the estimated construction cost of 1 trillion yen ($9.75 billion) through the Japan Bank for International Cooperation.
> 
> JR Tokai's maglev train uses proprietary technology that keeps the train about 10cm in the air with a magnetic force between onboard superconducting magnets and ground coils. This enables stable operation at a speed of 500kph. The Japanese railway operator would usually charge licensing fees to recoup development costs.


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## George Harris

A maglev line between Washington and Baltimore makes almost as much sense as flying between Washington and Baltimore.


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## Anderson

George Harris said:


> A maglev line between Washington and Baltimore makes almost as much sense as flying between Washington and Baltimore.


The intent seems to be, as I understand it, to use a freely-provided WAS-BAL line as a loss leader to sell the US on a WAS-NYP (and, apparently, possibly WAS-BOS) line. Like a lot of project first phases (CAHSR, I'm looking at you), the initial phase really only makes sense as part of a bigger project.

Edit: Though I can't help but wonder what the effects of being able to pop between downtown DC and downtown Baltimore in something like 20 minutes would be. Considering that the IOS would need to be priced to fill up a decent number of seats on just a short section...


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## Green Maned Lion

Maglev is an answer looking for a problem, and the only reason Japan is building one is God Forbid China have an operating maglev and they don't.


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## mfastx

The Japanese could offer to build and operate the thing for free and it'd still require the perfect storm politically to give the go-ahead.


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## CrazyDave

TubularRail would eliminate all of the drawbacks and hurdles of existing technologies.It eliminates the rail entirely, by turning the train into a projectile moved through a network of hoops that can be arranged in unlimited configurations, relating to the needs of the routes. Each hoop can be independently powered, minimizing losses in energy to transmission, and eliminating all but the bare minimum of infrastructure needed to move the train. Its potential to reduce implementation and operation costs, makes it an optimal Maglev system to implement.


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## jis

I would still prefer to wait out for the Teleporter 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## cirdan

Maglev has been the train of the future for the last 70 years.


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## CHamilton

cirdan said:


> Maglev has been the train of the future for the last 70 years.


It's pretty incredible: I rode the maglev exhibit at Vancouver's Expo 86 almost 30 years ago.


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## Devil's Advocate

At the moment we have still not come close to implementing conventional rail networks that reach anywhere near the maximum possible speed in scheduled service. Although we seem to have completely gummed up the use of tilting stock on conventional rail thus far, I do think that could be an area of future development that could benefit US passenger rail. Due to America's growing problems with tackling large scale infrastructure development I'm beginning to realize that new long distance rail lines are probably beyond our capabilities regardless of whatever technology they're based on. Tilting trains on conventional rails haven't done much for us yet but they might be a technology that could maintain the current status quo while providing slightly improved speeds in the future. If you dream much bigger than adding minimal improvements that you start running into problems with financing and politics and our growing reluctance to do anything that might require money earmarked for the military and medical industries.


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## jis

Speaking of Japanese Maglev.... _Abe inspects maglev train test line with Kennedy_.

Interestingly....



> After a briefing on the Tokyo-Nagoya Linear Chuo Shinkansen line project, which is aimed at starting maglev train service in 2027, they boarded a train car together.


So Japan will get its first system in 2027. Which would suggest that by the time anything happens in the US it will be 2057. Clearly nothing the likes of me need to think about. But you younger tykes, better watch out.


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## Anderson

Devil's Advocate said:


> At the moment we have still not come close to implementing conventional rail networks that reach anywhere near the maximum possible speed in scheduled service. Although we seem to have completely gummed up the use of tilting stock on conventional rail thus far, I do think that could be an area of future development that could benefit US passenger rail. Due to America's growing problems with tackling large scale infrastructure development I'm beginning to realize that new long distance rail lines are probably beyond our capabilities regardless of whatever technology they're based on. Tilting trains on conventional rails haven't done much for us yet but they might be a technology that could maintain the current status quo while providing slightly improved speeds in the future. If you dream much bigger than adding minimal improvements that you start running into problems with financing and politics and our growing reluctance to do anything that might require money earmarked for the military and medical industries.


Well, ultimately we're probably going to be stuck turning (1) to the private sector in some form or another and (2) to state/local authorities for solutions on a lot of fronts. You won't always get 100% private-sector cost coverage (though you might be able to get close if you can throw in either some development deals or low-interest loans), but I suspect you can get some pretty decent arrangements worked out.


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## MattW

The transition from rail-maglev I think will happen like the transition from buggy-rail. Ultimately, we will be using maglevs, possibly even replacing air routes since there is no practical limit to terrestrial speeds (you'd need a really really really really long maglev to start worrying about the speed of light!) just challenges (vacuum tubes vs. open-air and acceleration). Washington to Baltimore is not too unreasonable a starting point in my opinion actually. It connects two already closely-bound cities with the fastest link they have ever had. Except maybe the twin-cities, or Chicago and Milwaukee, I really can't think of any other city pairs that are close enough to not be too outrageous a test line, and with enough transit between them that people are "used" to the broad concept.


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## Anderson

CHI-MKE wouldn't be a bad test line...it's actually longer than WAS-BAL (about 90-100 miles vs. <40 miles). It might actually be a better test line if you could somehow get the ROW worked out, given the distance.


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## Eugene S

_Need to read book titled "The Fight for Maglev" Copyright 2011 by James Powell, Gordon Danby & James Jordon_


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## MARC Rider

Anderson said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> 
> A maglev line between Washington and Baltimore makes almost as much sense as flying between Washington and Baltimore.
> 
> 
> 
> The intent seems to be, as I understand it, to use a freely-provided WAS-BAL line as a loss leader to sell the US on a WAS-NYP (and, apparently, possibly WAS-BOS) line. Like a lot of project first phases (CAHSR, I'm looking at you), the initial phase really only makes sense as part of a bigger project.
> 
> Edit: Though I can't help but wonder what the effects of being able to pop between downtown DC and downtown Baltimore in something like 20 minutes would be. Considering that the IOS would need to be priced to fill up a decent number of seats on just a short section...
Click to expand...

If you want to pay $40-$50 for a one way ticket you can already pop between BAL and WAS in 30 minutes using an antiquated technology called the "Acela Express." For less than half the rpice, you can ride down in 30 minutes in #79, the "CarolinIan," a non-Acela train that does the run non stop. The regionals all stop at BWI and New Carrolton and take 40 minutes. The MARC local takes an hour.


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## guest

We can't afford a fresh carnation in a bud vase, and we're seriously discussing maglev?


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## jis

Different funding source. The Japanese are simply looking for a place to spend their excess dollars at for almost any non-negative return over 40 years.  Incidentally they have also been funding massive infrastructure projects in dollar denominated funding in places like India and other developing countries of late too. Allegedly they are willing to fund close to entire development of classic HSR on specific routes in India. They are funding a substantial portion of Kolkata's Metro Line 2 and other similar projects in other cities. So if anything happens in this Maglev thing US will merely be joining a long line of infrastructure projects that the Japanese have been aggressively funding, though not as aggressively as the Chinese perhaps, almost everywhere.


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## The Davy Crockett

And like deja vu all over again, except:

1)The Japanese govt. is now 'committed' to investing $5 Billion in the project. (whatever this really means)

2)On Wednesday, Sept. 3, '14 Washington Rapid Rail LLC submitted an application to the Maryland Public Service Commission for the project.

3)(The item I love the most) Rapid Rail is asking state regulators to transfer the franchise rights of the former Washington Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railroad!!! Really? The franchise rights of the old WB&A? I could rant and rave about this for a spell, but I'll TRY to contain myself to a few items: a)B'more's light rail uses part of the old WB&A right of way, b)the WB&A was basically an interurban line, and c) From this history of the WB&A :



> The WB&A absorbed two older railroads, the Annapolis and Elk Ridge Railroad and the Baltimore & Annapolis Short Line, and added its own electric streetcar line between Baltimore and Washington. *It was built by a group of Cleveland, Ohio, electric railway entrepreneurs to serve as a high-speed, showpiece line using the most advanced technology of the time.* [emphasis added]


Hmmmmm... Its like deja vu deja vuing all over again!

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system...

From this story at WTOP:



> A company has proposed building a high-speed train that could go from Baltimore to Washington in about 15 minutes.
> 
> Washington Rapid Rail LLC submitted an application to the Maryland Public Service Commission on Wednesday.
> 
> The filing says the Japanese government has committed to provide $5 billion or more toward the cost of building the first leg. The filing also says that the Central Japan Railway Co. has agreed to waive any licensing fees for its "maglev" train technology.
> 
> Maglev trains use magnets to float over rail guideways.
> 
> Rapid Rail is asking state regulators to transfer the franchise rights of the former Washington Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railroad.
> 
> The commission regulates common carriers that engage in the public transportation of people for hire.


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## Anderson

I find it interesting that JR Central wants to invest in "standard HSR" in Texas while the Japanese government wants to invest up in the DC area with the maglev...with JR Central's technology. I know it's two different techs and two different efforts, but I'm really surprised at them chasing both efforts like this.


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## Paulus

Anderson said:


> I find it interesting that JR Central wants to invest in "standard HSR" in Texas while the Japanese government wants to invest up in the DC area with the maglev...with JR Central's technology. I know it's two different techs and two different efforts, but I'm really surprised at them chasing both efforts like this.


Two different areas though and the technology best suited to each.


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## George Harris

Paulus said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that JR Central wants to invest in "standard HSR" in Texas while the Japanese government wants to invest up in the DC area with the maglev...with JR Central's technology. I know it's two different techs and two different efforts, but I'm really surprised at them chasing both efforts like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Two different areas though and the technology best suited to each.
Click to expand...

Actually Dallas Houston would be more suited to Maglev than Washington Baltimre. Since the Washington Baltimore run time is already down to 30 minutes most of the travel time is already consumed getting from origin to system starting piont and system ending point to destination. Baltimore Washington would be little better than the Shanghai Airport line which simply accelerates half the trip and decellerates half the trip. On a trip this short you are simply reaching diminishing returns.

A little quick math: If, and that is IIF, you go to 500 mph, Washington Baltimore, if you take the straight line distance of 36 miles (maybe plus or minus 1 or 2), and at 10% of gravity acceleration and braking, the time is 9 minutes, which is about as fast as possible. How much money will you spend to save 20 minutes? Most likely near none unless the wait time at start or end is significant.

If you go 500 mph Dallas to Houston, taking a distance of 240 miles, at 10% of gravity acceleration and braking, the time is 33 minutes, which is about an hour less than the probably high speed rail time. It is also less than plane gate to gate time. For this people might spend more money.


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## Paulus

Washington-Baltimore is being intended as an initial segment of a longer line though, that's how they intend to recoup the free line costs.

As for 500mph, the top recorded maglev speed is 361mph.


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## Andrew

You never know!!

The Japanese are into this, and with a large RRIF loan--and a stop at BWI-- this could become a large reality...

How would Amtrak fit into this?


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## Eric S

Andrew said:


> You never know!!
> 
> The Japanese are into this, and with a large RRIF loan--and a stop at BWI-- this could become a large reality...
> 
> How would Amtrak fit into this?


As opposed to a small reality?

And how about you tell us how you think Amtrak would fit into this.


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## George Harris

I know the maglev top speed is well under 500 mph. I picked that number because it gets you the shortest run time at all likely between Washington and Baltimore using a reasonably comfortable acceleration and braking rate. If you picked 360 mph or 400 mph it would only add a minute or two to the Balto-Wash run time. I don't think it would make any difference worth mentioning to the public to Houston-Dallas time, either. You would still be under an hour. For Dallas Houston, an 186 mph speed (that is 300 kph) as used in Taiwan says you could do it in 90 to 95 minutes.

I still think for us Maglev is a solution looking for a problem.


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## jis

Andrew said:


> You never know!!
> 
> The Japanese are into this, and with a large RRIF loan--and a stop at BWI-- this could become a large reality...
> 
> How would Amtrak fit into this?


We will only know aftrer an EIS is done whether it even qualifies for an RRIF loan, if at all.
Amtrak does not fit into this. It is a private operation with funding from JR Central and the Japan Government. If it actually succeeds it will put Amtrak out of business on the NEC eventually. But the likelihood of that happening is relatively low in my reckoning. I tend to agree with George on this. If a straight enough ROW for a 500mph Maglev can be found a 250mph regular train will be cheaper on it and will provide more direct point A to point B connectivity than a Maglev restricted to travel only on Maaglev track.


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## Andrew

What does an EIS have to do with a RRIF loan?


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## Green Maned Lion

If they are going to receive federal funds it need an EIS. Thus was passed into law at the behest of various organizations that make billions generating EISs under the guise of environmental protection.


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## Long Train Runnin'

George Harris said:


> I still think for us Maglev is a solution looking for a problem.



Agreed. having ridden the line in Shanghai I was certainly not thinking to myself oh wow this is definitely the future of land transportation.


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## jis

Andrew said:


> What does an EIS have to do with a RRIF loan?


RRIF loan is federal funds, and federal funds require EIS. That is the reason AAF is doing an EIS in order to get an RRIF loan.


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## George Harris

So far as I can tell, the main use of EIS has been as a weapon by people opposed to a project to stop. Many times the claims have been downright silly. One of the favorites is to claim that the project will impact or destroy the last known habitat of some critter no one has ever heard of, and no one has ever seen anywhere near the location of the project.


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## The Davy Crockett

George Harris said:


> So far as I can tell, the main use of EIS has been as a weapon by people opposed to a project to stop. Many times the claims have been downright silly. One of the favorites is to claim that the project will impact or destroy the last known habitat of some critter no one has ever heard of, and no one has ever seen anywhere near the location of the project.


For example... Purple Line May Be Held Up...By Shrimp!


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## lo2e

Since almost everything revolves around money these days, has a direct cost comparison been done between Maglev and decent HSR (let's say Acela top speed for now)? In particular, I'd be interested in the cost differences on each of the following:

How much to build? (knowing that HSR at least marginally exists already in the NEC)

How much to run?

How much to maintain track and equipment?

How much to replace rolling stock (if needed for Maglev, not sure if the equipment ever wears out but I'd imagine at least some does)?


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## jis

The answers to those questions are not simple and straightforward. Afterall we are talking engineering issues under various different situations. If you are really interested in exploring this further you could start with this relatively well written paper:

https://www.thetransitcoalition.us/LargePDFfiles/maglev-EvalandComparisonHSR.pdf

And yes Maglev equipment wears out just like anything else. It is the track and levitation system. Just because things don;t touch does not mean they don't come under stress. They do have to be maintained and replaced like anything else.


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## George Harris

Going through the report referenced by jis, it has several significant points:

Time savings are minimal.

Cost differences appear to be understated.

Energy consumption is higher, according to some, much higher.

Promotion of the technology appears to be driven primarily by suppliers of the technology, not by transportation agencies, and appears to be oriented to obtaining the maximum amount of public funds for the development with little to no private money involved.


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## CHamilton

Maryland applies for Maglev funds as governor rides Japan’s system


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## jis

CHamilton said:


> Maryland applies for Maglev funds as governor rides Japan’s system


And yet he will not build the Purple line. The idiotic hypocrite!


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## Ryan

^^^ What he said. MD does a lot of things right, Hogan ain't one of them.


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## Eric S

But newfangled gadgetbahn (at least in terms of its existence in the US) is always more exciting than the tried and true. Just don't mention that it will cost, what, 10 times more


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## jis

Well when the hope is that the Japanese will pick up the tab and we will be a little more indebted to someone oever which we have little control seems to not bother these self appointed patriots either.


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## FormerOBS

As a Marylander, I feel confident that Mr. Hogan knows about as much about rail transportation issues as my dog Samson knows about polymer chemistry. Take that for what it's worth.

Tom


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## Ryan

This guy pretty much nails it:

http://politicalmaryland.com/2015/06/08/hogans-incredible-maglev-gaffe/



> It’s “an incredible experience” Hogan said of his 300-mile-an-hour ride on a test track in Japan during an economic development trip to Asia.
> 
> What’s really “incredible” is Hogan’s willingness to become a promoter of a still-emerging technology with eye-popping costs just as he nears a decision on building two crucial, but far cheaper, conventional mass-transit routes in Baltimore and the Washington suburbs that he previously called “too expensive.”
> 
> Supporters of maglev (magnetic levitation) say a Washington-to-Baltimore route would cost a mere $10 billion. Others says the price tag would be many times higher just for the first 40 miles of a route eventually stretching to New York.
> 
> Maglev, which glides on a cushion of air and is powered by super-conducting magnets, requires a straight track. It cannot use existing rail rights of way. Thus, the Baltimore-Washington route, through an intensely developed part of Maryland, will have to done by way of a 40-mile-long tunnel.
> 
> Now we’re talking REALLY big bucks.


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## FormerOBS

Barry Rascovar is one of Maryland's more trustworthy, thoughtful local pundits.

Tom


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## MARC Rider

Ryan said:


> This guy pretty much nails it:
> 
> http://politicalmaryland.com/2015/06/08/hogans-incredible-maglev-gaffe/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s “an incredible experience” Hogan said of his 300-mile-an-hour ride on a test track in Japan during an economic development trip to Asia.
> 
> What’s really “incredible” is Hogan’s willingness to become a promoter of a still-emerging technology with eye-popping costs just as he nears a decision on building two crucial, but far cheaper, conventional mass-transit routes in Baltimore and the Washington suburbs that he previously called “too expensive.”
> 
> Supporters of maglev (magnetic levitation) say a Washington-to-Baltimore route would cost a mere $10 billion. Others says the price tag would be many times higher just for the first 40 miles of a route eventually stretching to New York.
> 
> Maglev, which glides on a cushion of air and is powered by super-conducting magnets, requires a straight track. It cannot use existing rail rights of way. Thus, the Baltimore-Washington route, through an intensely developed part of Maryland, will have to done by way of a 40-mile-long tunnel.
> 
> Now we’re talking REALLY big bucks.
Click to expand...

They have $10 billion for this latest shiny toy, and they don't have money to contribute towards fixing up the B&P Tunnel? Not to mention that the MARC fare increase goes into effect today. (and a couple of weeks ago, they *lowered* some highway tolls. It's pretty obvious what the transportation priorities are for this governor.


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## Ryan

FormerOBS said:


> Barry Rascovar is one of Maryland's more trustworthy, thoughtful local pundits.
> 
> Tom


I had never heard of him before, I'll have to check more of his stuff out.


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## Tokkyu40

MARC Rider said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This guy pretty much nails it:
> 
> http://politicalmaryland.com/2015/06/08/hogans-incredible-maglev-gaffe/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s “an incredible experience” Hogan said of his 300-mile-an-hour ride on a test track in Japan during an economic development trip to Asia.
> 
> What’s really “incredible” is Hogan’s willingness to become a promoter of a still-emerging technology with eye-popping costs just as he nears a decision on building two crucial, but far cheaper, conventional mass-transit routes in Baltimore and the Washington suburbs that he previously called “too expensive.”
> 
> Supporters of maglev (magnetic levitation) say a Washington-to-Baltimore route would cost a mere $10 billion. Others says the price tag would be many times higher just for the first 40 miles of a route eventually stretching to New York.
> 
> Maglev, which glides on a cushion of air and is powered by super-conducting magnets, requires a straight track. It cannot use existing rail rights of way. Thus, the Baltimore-Washington route, through an intensely developed part of Maryland, will have to done by way of a 40-mile-long tunnel.
> 
> Now we’re talking REALLY big bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They have $10 billion for this latest shiny toy, and they don't have money to contribute towards fixing up the B&P Tunnel? Not to mention that the MARC fare increase goes into effect today. (and a couple of weeks ago, they *lowered* some highway tolls. It's pretty obvious what the transportation priorities are for this governor.
Click to expand...

JR Central and the Japanese export bank are talking about financing the maglev, so it's politically "free money", meaning you don't have to pay the bill until the next administration gets hit with the tab.


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## Anderson

Well, and there's always the possibility (and not a small one _if this were to start happening_, I'd add...the overall chances of the project actually moving seem quite remote, but the chances of it moving a bit and then stalling seem to fill up much of the remainder) that the Maglev gets built from DC to Baltimore, bankrupts out its loans, and is sufficiently marginal in operation that expansion efforts drop dead.

To be fair, I've got to wonder...JR Central seems to be splitting their focus between Texas Central (the Houston-Dallas bullet train) and this. Considering that this is basically a moonshot while the Texas Central situation is more clearly viable (the TC folks noted that there were other markets they could make work and that Houston-Dallas was simply one of the easiest)...if this stalls out I don't think JR Central is going to see too much of a problem with walking on this one.


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## CHamilton

Maryland awarded $27.8M grant for maglev


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## me_little_me

CHamilton said:


> Maryland awarded $27.8M grant for maglev


Another meaningless study. $10B? What's in it for my state? Any reasonable congressman would say that.

Studies mean nothing. Just a bribe to the local officials so they can give money to local businesses.


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## Eric S

Ugh. I'd much rather this funding had been repurposed and put toward the BWI Marshall Airport rail station project, or some such project in the area rather than continuing to study this gadgetbahn.

Oh well.


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## jis

As they say - follow the money. See who are the contractors that get the money and what their connections are to the current political structure. Am I a cynic? Moi?


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## MARC Rider

Eric S said:


> Are we sure that maglev (and unicorns, for that matter) is completely outside FRA jurisdiction?


Also, the fist big maglev crash with mass casualties will ensure that the technology is regulated by either the FRA or some equivalent created for the purpose of regulating maglevs.

Me, I'm not sure I want to ride at ground level at 300+ mph.


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## Tokkyu40

MARC Rider said:


> Eric S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we sure that maglev (and unicorns, for that matter) is completely outside FRA jurisdiction?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the fist big maglev crash with mass casualties will ensure that the technology is regulated by either the FRA or some equivalent created for the purpose of regulating maglevs.
> 
> Me, I'm not sure I want to ride at ground level at 300+ mph.
Click to expand...

Why not? You fly at 500 mph, and when they go into the ground they don't normally have survivors.

At least at maglev altitude they hit the ground skidding like a sled, not straight in like a pile driver. Much safer.


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## River Cities

According to this article, sounds like studies are moving forward in part thanks to $2 million from Japan.



> BALTIMORE The head of a private venture to build a high-speed magnetic-levitation train between Washington and Baltimore believes the project could break ground in as little as three to four years.


If it really started construction in three years that'd be pretty impressive! (Even then, how long until we could take a ride on one?)


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## Bob Dylan

If you invest money in this you're the same kind of sucker that invested in the LA-Vegas Scam and in Donald Trump's Casino scams!


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## Long Train Runnin'

I think I posted the same thing I am about to say now years ago in this thread.

Maglev doesn't feel like the future. Since my first ride a few years ago I have returned to Shanghai and of course took another ride aboard the train. I still don't think its the future. In fact I would say the train in Shanghai isn't even holding up as well as I would imagine it should. Now granted the hype of the world expo is over and I'm sure the funding has been cut, but the last time I was the trains were filthy. It's also been years since its opening, and yet it remains the only usable example in the world.




Sorry I don't see this working in Japan or here.


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## Metra Electric Rider

Doesn't Maglev, as it exists now, have huge power draws?


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## fairviewroad

I'm not sure the Shanghai Maglev's cleanliness (or lack thereof) is a very convincing indictment of the technology. You're certainly going to kill a lot of bugs at the speed.


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## Long Train Runnin'

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Doesn't Maglev, as it exists now, have huge power draws?


Yes and thats why the train runs at a reduced speed almost all of the time.



fairviewroad said:


> I'm not sure the Shanghai Maglev's cleanliness (or lack thereof) is a very convincing indictment of the technology. You're certainly going to kill a lot of bugs at the speed.



Yes I understand they will kill a lot of bugs running at high speeds. Thats not the sole indictment of the technology see Metra's post above. The power draw means the train only operates at peak speeds for a few hours each day. You have to plan your day around the schedule if you want to ride the train while it is operating as the fastest in the world. If this is the future it should be treated less like a novelty built to show off to the world.


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## Cho Cho Charlie

Long Train Runnin' said:


> Metra Electric Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't Maglev, as it exists now, have huge power draws?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and thats why the train runs at a reduced speed almost all of the time.
Click to expand...

We just need to iron out the kinks in making room temperature super conductors (and no, I don't mean a really nice guy collecting tickets onboard).


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