# Europe and Asia connected by rail in Istanbul



## jis (Aug 9, 2013)

> TURKEY: A ceremonial first test train ran through the Marmaray tunnel between Kazliçesme on the European side of Istanbul and Ayrılıkçesme on the Asian side on August 4, with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the controls. 'This project is not the project of the century, but it is the project of centuries', said Erdogan.


See the whole article here.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm sure Politics made this a Very drawn out Process as the PM understated!


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## railiner (Aug 9, 2013)

That's nice.

But Europe and Asia have been connected by railroad for a long time.....by the Trans-Siberian Railway.....


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## jis (Aug 9, 2013)

railiner said:


> That's nice.But Europe and Asia have been connected by railroad for a long time.....by the Trans-Siberian Railway.....


Trans Siberian is not the only rail connection that was there between Europe and Asia. There were several others. The importance of this one is that it connects Europe to Southwest Asia and onwards to South Asia.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 9, 2013)

Does the Original Orient Express (The Real One before WWII) count as a Europe-Asia Connecting Train??? :unsure:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 10, 2013)

Nice to know that the Turkish PM actually knows how to drive a train!



jis said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > That's nice.
> ...


The problem is, what happens to the line once east of Turkey? And isn't there still the Lake Van gap?


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## Anderson (Aug 10, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Does the Original Orient Express (The Real One before WWII) count as a Europe-Asia Connecting Train??? :unsure:


IIRC, there was a railbarge service of some sort rather than a "proper" connection.


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## jis (Aug 10, 2013)

The original Orient Express mostly terminated on the European side of Istanbul. There may have been some car ferries from time to time, but that was more the exception.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 11, 2013)

How hard is it to ride a train from Istanbul to the Indian subcontinent? Don't you still need to transfer a lot more than on the Trans-Siberian?


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## Anderson (Aug 11, 2013)

IIRC, you at _least_ have to transfer between Turkey and Iran (ferry. I think there's another transfer between Iran and Pakistan as well, though that may be a cross-platform transfer.


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## jis (Aug 11, 2013)

Anderson said:


> IIRC, you at _least_ have to transfer between Turkey and Iran (ferry. I think there's another transfer between Iran and Pakistan as well, though that may be a cross-platform transfer.


The ferry between Tatvan and Van is entirely in Turkey. It is on the main route to Iran. However, there is a second route under construction a little further north that completely avoid the Van area, and there is a third route via Armenia and Azerbaijan from Turkey to Iran which enters Iran at Djulfa. The route through Armenia and Azerbaijan involves a gauge change from Standard to Russian Broad and back. OTOH the entire route through there is electrified at 3kV DC!

There is no regular passenger service between Iran and Pakistan, and regular passenger service from Zahedan to Quetta is indefinitely suspended due to insurgency in Balochistan, or so I am told. There is a gauge change (Standard to Indian Broad) involved at Zahedan in Iran.

Admittedly even if the route were open, people holding American Passport would find such a trip somewhat challenging and fraught. But people holding Asian (except Israel) Passports should have no problem traveling through Iran. Traveling through western Pakistan is another matter, and it is not clear if it is safe even for Pakistanis. But in spite of all that they have occasionally run Container trains from Pakistan to Iran, and even India and Pakistan have talked about running through freight from Iran to India. Of course the current embargo throws a bit of s spanner in the works. But local trade still thrives based on barter, the way it has been done for many thousand years.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 11, 2013)

jis said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > IIRC, you at _least_ have to transfer between Turkey and Iran (ferry. I think there's another transfer between Iran and Pakistan as well, though that may be a cross-platform transfer.
> ...


If I were to take the route through Armenia and Azerbaijan, wouldn't I need two more visas? And how would one get from Zahedan to Quetta?

Too dangerous right now, if insurgency alone is bad enough to cut that train out into a foreign SL-East (long-term suspension), then I'm not going to even try. Maybe when things get sorted out.


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## Gemuser (Oct 31, 2013)

jis said:


> There is no regular passenger service between Iran and Pakistan, and regular passenger service from Zahedan to Quetta is indefinitely suspended due to insurgency in Balochistan, or so I am told. There is a gauge change (Standard to Indian Broad) involved at Zahedan in Iran.


There is now regular Iranian Railways service from Tehran to Zahedan and the boarder station and change of gauge has been moved to Kuh-i-Taftan right on the boarder. The Zahedan - Taftan line was transferred from Pakistani Railways to Iranian Railways and standard gauged some years ago. The Baluchistan Express is still suspended, although I have read that some local trains have been run under very heavy military guard.

It would be great if this line could be reopened enabling thru trains from London to Dhaka, with just one change of gauge!


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## jis (Oct 31, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Too dangerous right now, if insurgency alone is bad enough to cut that train out into a foreign SL-East (long-term suspension), then I'm not going to even try. Maybe when things get sorted out.


One does not need to go to Zahedan or Quetta to get from London to Beijing, which is what I was responding to.
One has to get to Quetta to get to the Indian subcontinent. That is not going to happen in any reliable and safe form for a long long.... very long long time. I am told that there isn't even reliable rail service from Karachi to Quetta any more.



Gemuser said:


> It would be great if this line could be reopened enabling thru trains from London to Dhaka, with just one change of gauge!


It would be, but is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Meanwhile one has to just be satisfied to have through service just from Karachi to Dhaka via Lahore - Wagah - Atari - Amritsar - Ambala - Lucknow or Delhi - Mughal Sarai - Kolkata - Gede - Darsana to Dhaka. Of course no through ticketing, require overnight stay in Kolkata and Amritsar and/or possibly Lahore, and each border crossing would make the US - Canada border crossing look like a picnic in Central Park.


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## Nathanael (Nov 8, 2013)

There are people (mostly British, for some reason) who do rail trips like this (Britain to India) as their hobby.

At the moment, the impossible section is western Pakistan, getting from Kuh-e-Taftan to Quetta. By the accounts I've seen so far, the insurgents in Balochistan in Iran don't bother foreigners -- they're fighting a low-level civil war with Iran, and since Iran's government is on the outs with all the Western countries, Westerners aren't perceived as enemies.

But the multiple groups of insurgents in Pakistan are much more hostile to Westerners by all accounts -- perhaps because Pakistan's government is considered closely tied to the "West". Apparently there are kidnappings much like the ones the Mexican drug cartels carry out. And there have been a *lot* of random public bombings in this part of Pakistan, although we get some of those even in the US.

And the train from the Iranian border to Quetta currently runs at *most* twice a month!

By the way, Balochistan in Pakistan got hit with an earthquake which killed over 300 people at the end of September. Probably most of you didn't even know. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24222760

By contrast, you can take quite a civilized and safe trip from Europe to China on any number of different routes, with perhaps the least popular being through Kazakhstan and Urumqi.


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