# new SunRail hits car



## NE933 (May 19, 2014)

The new Florida commuter rail that just started has, according to radio news, had its first grade crossing. Woman passenger got out in time.


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## CHamilton (May 19, 2014)

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/sunrail/os-sunrail-crash-maitland-20140519,0,2232971.story


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## AmtrakBlue (May 19, 2014)

Hope it's not our FL Princess.


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## NE933 (May 19, 2014)

Edit function not working on my Blackberry.

Update: car stalled, and woman was hit by the airborn debris. Happened around 2-ish.


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## amtrakwolverine (May 19, 2014)

I think this is the 2nd grade crossing accident. First one the train hit a landscaping trailer that was stopped on the tracks. That driver was cited.


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## SarahZ (May 19, 2014)

I'm glad she's okay.  That would be scary.

Edit: I didn't see NE933's response. The article said she collapsed due to shock.


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## pennyk (May 19, 2014)

It was not me - I would not be in a car - I would be on the train.

Here is an another article:

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2014/5/19/sunrail_train_crash.html?cmpid=breaking


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## Scott Orlando (May 19, 2014)

Scotty on the spot....







I hope the driver is ok. Perfectly good and relatively new car ruined. Impact at Packwood Ave by Sunrail P317 Northbound. Vehicle sent about 30 feet north of the intersection (behing the firetruck in this picture). The train was brought 1/4 mile further north to Maitland station. Crew and passengers interviewed by police. Amtrak 98 was just past the north Winter Park signal and reversed back to Winter Park. Southbound Sunrail was not delayed. P317 and 98 both were delayed about 1 hour.


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## crescent2 (May 20, 2014)

Nice looking train! Thanks for posting the pic.

Ah, to be able to even glimpse a passenger train... *sigh*

Glad the driver got out relatively OK.


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## me_little_me (May 20, 2014)

"The 28-year-old driver — who had recently purchased the vehicle and was still learning how to drive a stick shift — got out of the car before the SunRail train hit the left side of the Infiniti."

Great place to practice driving a stick! Anyone who has ever driven a stick knows that stalling the vehicle is the first thing that happens to you every few minutes while you learn how to control a clutch.


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## MrFSS (May 20, 2014)

Why would someone want an Infinity with a manual transmission?


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## Devil's Advocate (May 20, 2014)

I hope the driver has to pay for any damages along with a fine large enough to leave a serious impression.


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## Green Maned Lion (May 20, 2014)

I dunno why anyone would want an Infinity stereo with manual transmission. However, why somebody would want an overtly sporty car like an Infiniti G37 with a manual transmission is obvious- it's fun.

I enjoy driving sticks. I've been sad they have mostly disappeared. The 5 speed in my Alfa Romeo Qudrafoglio was a dream. There's nothing quite like the scream of 24 Italian valves and four Italian camshafts over six Italian cylinders down a country road while shifting gears and squealing tires. Except of course the 125 decibel scream made upon reading frequent Italian repair bills.


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## pennyk (May 20, 2014)

A tv news story just reported that the driver went around the crossing gates, and then stalled on the tracks.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 20, 2014)

pennyk said:


> A tv news story just reported that the driver went around the crossing gates, and then stalled on the tracks.


Sounds like a great time to explore extended revocation of the the driver's license.


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## FriskyFL (May 21, 2014)

Just another slow news day in Florida.


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## Scott Orlando (May 21, 2014)

Dear Policyholder:

While we value you as a customer, your policy does not cover 'driving around railroad crossing gates' or 'learning to drive a manual transmission at a railroad crossing'........


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## Ryan (May 21, 2014)

You can pry my manual transmission from my cold dead hands.

Just not at a grade crossing, because even I'm not that dumb.


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## Bob Dylan (May 21, 2014)

Note to GML: FIAT stands for "Fix it again Tony!" All Italian vehicles are garage queens and Very expensive to buy, operate and maintain! Old racing saying: Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go!

And even the Car Mags are finally admitting that automatics have gotten so good and perform on a par with sticks that you may as well get the automatic, especially when you drive in traffic!


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## Blackwolf (May 21, 2014)

The trilobite wanted a snack. Seems this lady was happy to give it one. :giggle:


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## Green Maned Lion (May 21, 2014)

I've never driven a fast Fiat. A Maserati yes, an Alfa yes, but a Fiat?

That being said, I once had a 1978 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL 6.9 which had a stroked and bored version of the 600 Pullman limousines engine stuffed into its light air suspended body. It was the fastest four door sedan in the world, a title it maintained until Rolls-Royce decided to turbocharge its aluminum 6.75 V8 and place it in the Bentley Mulsanne Turbo. Either of those two cars are mechanically bullet proof, and I know the Mercedes is from personal ownership.

Fast cars can be reliable. But generally speaking, only Mercedes has ever built them consistently.


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## Anderson (May 22, 2014)

If the stalling happens before the gates go down, that's one thing. That is actually one of the few "excusable" reasons for a grade crossing incident, since engines can stall/cut off at the worst times with little sign in advance (my dad once had a Mercedes that we _thought_ had seen an engine cut-off problem fixed, but it went ahead and cut off randomly again afterwards) and not correct immediately. I know there are supposed to be emergency phones at crossings or something in that vein, but so few people have ever encountered that situation that I'll grant it isn't common knowledge what to do.

That said, if she went around the gates, it is on her IMHO.

(Edit: My family was a Mercedes family for the longest time...and my first car, an '87, is currently down in Florida.)


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## Devil's Advocate (May 22, 2014)

Anderson said:


> If the stalling happens before the gates go down, that's one thing. That is actually one of the few "excusable" reasons for a grade crossing incident, since engines can stall/cut off at the worst times with little sign in advance (my dad once had a Mercedes that we _thought_ had seen an engine cut-off problem fixed, but it went ahead and cut off randomly again afterwards) and not correct immediately.


Back in the 1970's cars might just up and stall suddenly. If you're still driving a car that might stall suddenly in 2014 that's on *you*. Either keep your unreliable car in better repair with more frequent service checks or choose a more reliable brand or find a route that doesn't cross active tracks. Even if there is some sort of one-in-a-million failure involving a grade crossing stall that could not be countered with a more reliable brand or more frequent maintenance then get out and push your car out of the way. If you cannot push your car yourself then wave somebody down to get help. If you're on an incline then release the break and roll your busted and broken car out of the way.



Anderson said:


> I know there are supposed to be emergency phones at crossings or something in that vein, but so few people have ever encountered that situation that I'll grant it isn't common knowledge what to do.


 I have never seen or heard of anything like that. Where I live there are no such phones. In fact there have been no such phones anywhere I've lived. Or anyplace I've visited. Put the car in neutral and push it out of the way. After that you can worry about calling someone to tow your suddenly stalling junk heap to a repair shop or junk yard.



Anderson said:


> That said, if she went around the gates, it is on her IMHO.


It's also *on us* to hold her responsible and punish her accordingly.


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## Green Maned Lion (May 22, 2014)

Modern cars stall, bro. They have sensors and are self-protecting. So they shut off instead of risking a catastrophic failure.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 22, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Modern cars stall, bro. They have sensors and are self-protecting. So they shut off instead of risking a catastrophic failure.


Cool story bro. Stalling in the middle of a grade crossing is still a one-in-a-million chance if you're driving a reliable brand. If you're driving an unreliable brand that is prone to break down often enough to end up stalled on the tracks then that decision is on *you*. If you insist on driving flaky vehicles then the least you can do is avoid grade crossings while traveling in those vehicles. People who think stalling on the tracks is a natural part of modern life probably shouldn't be driving in the first place but if they insist on doing so anyway and if they cannot be bothered to drive a reliable brand then they should ensure they are in good enough shape to quickly push their POS off the crossing when the time comes.


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## Green Maned Lion (May 22, 2014)

Dude, your automotive knowledge is quite limited. Automotive reliability peaked in approximately 1994 and then fell upon implementation of OBDII. OBDII is a US government mandated system intended to ensure emissions compliance in vehicles. It measures way too much, however, and is designed to shut down the engine whenever it detects a potential catastrophic fault

However, and herein lies the run: it has been proven ineffective in shutting down the system during real faults in a manner that actually protects the system. However it does shut down the system when these myriad sensors fail. For instance, the crank/cam sensors detect a potential interference (valves hit the piston) and can shut down the engine. Generally, though, by the time it senses the fault (generally caused by a snapped timing belt) it's too late to prevent it. But if those sensors fail, it doesn't know if there is or is not an interference, and so it shuts the engine, and beyond that, prevents it from restarting.

Honda, Ford, Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, and Subaru all use interference engines (they are more efficient and cleaner) and all have that problem. So a company has a choice- it can use the superior sealing and combustion of an interference engine worldwide but risk having occasional failures in the US due to excessive regulation, or gyp their worldwide customer base of that efficiency and cleaness in order to prevent occasional US cars from stalling. Which do you pick?

An interference engine, by the way, is one where the fully open valve would "interfere" or occupy the same space, as the piston when the piston is fully in compression (ie at the top of its travel). No interference engines sink the valve further up in the cylinder head, which prevents this, but the design creates a non uniform combustion chamber, compromising combustion thoroughness and reducing inherent compression.


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## afigg (May 22, 2014)

FDOT has released video from the cameras on the train of the collision. You can see that the driver got out of the car just in time. The driver says that she was learning to drive a stick shift and stalled on the tracks. Not the best place to learn to drive a stick.

KIRO-TV report: Video shows train slamming into car as woman narrowly escapes

Orlando Sentinel has a longer story with more details, but an edited version of the video with an ad before the video.


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## MattW (May 22, 2014)

I don't see why anyone should stall ON a railroad track unless the road is sloped down to the track, which is very rare. If a vehicle stalls on the track, it probably means the person was sitting on the tracks, stopped, already which is illegal.


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## pennyk (May 22, 2014)

The video played on the local Orlando news tonight. The Florida DOT representative stated that he hoped that motorists watching the video will be suitably warned about stopping on the tracks.

It was further reported that the driver was ticketed.


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## NE933 (May 22, 2014)

So there is some positive fallout from this, highlighted by a cab video that aired on TV news. The big thing are several unheard of aerial helicopter patrols showing video of raw, careless, confrontational behavior of drivers stopping on tracks to check for text messages (even with plenty of room to go across). Also, the garden mill stepping on the gas as the gates came down to save a few moments. This incident might have started an explosion of interest, with young teens going on camera indicting these aggressive drivers as the causation of collisions with trains. Police and sheriffs will be making surprise pop up visits, long overdue. News anchor says that the fine for placing your car on train tracks is $116, obviously too low to deter anyone. But it seems a form of positive attention on an unpopular social topic, has finally caught on.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 23, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Dude, your automotive knowledge is quite limited. Automotive reliability peaked in approximately 1994 and then fell upon implementation of OBDII. OBDII is a US government mandated system intended to ensure emissions compliance in vehicles. It measures way too much, however, and is designed to shut down the engine whenever it detects a potential catastrophic fault However, and herein lies the run: it has been proven ineffective in shutting down the system during real faults in a manner that actually protects the system. However it does shut down the system when these myriad sensors fail. For instance, the crank/cam sensors detect a potential interference (valves hit the piston) and can shut down the engine. Generally, though, by the time it senses the fault (generally caused by a snapped timing belt) it's too late to prevent it. But if those sensors fail, it doesn't know if there is or is not an interference, and so it shuts the engine, and beyond that, prevents it from restarting. Honda, Ford, Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, and Subaru all use interference engines (they are more efficient and cleaner) and all have that problem. So a company has a choice- it can use the superior sealing and combustion of an interference engine worldwide but risk having occasional failures in the US due to excessive regulation, or gyp their worldwide customer base of that efficiency and cleaness in order to prevent occasional US cars from stalling. Which do you pick? An interference engine, by the way, is one where the fully open valve would "interfere" or occupy the same space, as the piston when the piston is fully in compression (ie at the top of its travel). No interference engines sink the valve further up in the cylinder head, which prevents this, but the design creates a non uniform combustion chamber, compromising combustion thoroughness and reducing inherent compression.


The simple fact remains that stalling in the middle of a grade crossing while driving a modern properly maintained vehicle is a statistically insignificant event. If ODBII shuts your engine down then chances are it's because you're not maintaining your vehicle properly. If you have an oil leak that is never noticed or resolved because you're a clueless "gas-n-go" driver then your engine is either going to be shut down or seize up. Those are the options. There's no emergency reservoir of extra oil available to bail you out. Even if there was it would eventually run out too and you'd be right back where you started. As for the driver in this thread it would appear they had no idea how to properly operate their vehicle, let alone how to maintain it, and probably shouldn't have been on the road to begin with. There is nothing wrong with driving a manual transmission so long as you actually have a clue what you're doing.


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## Green Maned Lion (May 23, 2014)

Almost all OBDII shut downs are the result of a unpredictable failure of electronic sensors. How do you "maintain" a small electronic sensor that costs $3-400 to simply access, let alone replace?

Unless you are suggesting that nobody drive a car more than 3-5 years old, of course. In which case you'd be an anti-environment nut with a attitude towards the working poor similar to that of Robert Moses.

I had this problem once, and I have a 2005 with barely 125k miles on it, dealer maintained on the dot to every specification in the handbook.

I keep thinking of going and buying a 1985 300D from a facility in California that rebuilds them. None of this electronic nonsense.


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## Bob Dylan (May 23, 2014)

The local Fixed Noise Station showed this video last night and the Rhodes Scholar "reporter" commented: "Wow! You mean people have to learn how to drive after they buy a car?"

Brilliant!


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## Devil's Advocate (May 24, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Almost all OBDII shut downs are the result of a unpredictable failure of electronic sensors.


Perhaps you mean a failed sensor prevents you from noticing the greater issue which eventually shuts the engine down. Just because an oxygen sensor fails doesn't mean your otherwise properly maintained engine is going to suddenly stall while crossing a railroad track. If such a failure does occur then that is a sign of a design flaw above and beyond the adoption of ODBII. It's true that there are some criteria where your engine might stall or refuse to start. Although even in this case the failure is likely to be very early in your trip so unless the grade crossing is right outside your front door it's still extremely unlikely to be involved in any way.




Green Maned Lion said:


> Unless you are suggesting that nobody drive a car more than 3-5 years old, of course. In which case you'd be an anti-environment nut with a attitude towards the working poor similar to that of Robert Moses.


I never said nobody should drive a car older than three to five years. I said cars should be properly maintained for their age. The longer you own and operate your vehicles the more you have to monitor and maintain it. It's a simple rule of life that I never would have guessed was controversial before you came back to spread your own special brand of fringe.




Green Maned Lion said:


> I had this problem once, and I have a 2005 with barely 125k miles on it, dealer maintained on the dot to every specification in the handbook. I keep thinking of going and buying a 1985 300D from a facility in California that rebuilds them. None of this electronic nonsense.


It's not your single datapoint I have an issue with, at least in the proper context, it's the underlying manifesto I find annoying. Just because you don't agree with ODBII doesn't mean it's causing people to stall over grade crossings.


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## Green Maned Lion (May 24, 2014)

I don't recall mentioning O2 sensors. There are several hundred sensors that make up OBDII. Some of them "fail safe" and prevent the car from proceeding when they do. Stop arguing with me.


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## jis (May 24, 2014)

For what it is worth OBDII is known to cause unpredictable shutdowns. However if someone does not want to acknowledge that based on their lack of knowledge it really does not make much difference to reality. So sigh.... and carry on 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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