# For Coach Passengers



## PJRACER (Apr 18, 2011)

For those traveling coach...what is provided for comfort....I am talking overnight???? What kind of temps are experienced at night while traveling in coach??? Does one need to provide their own blanket or pillow??


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## zephyr17 (Apr 18, 2011)

PJRACER said:


> For those traveling coach...what is provided for comfort....I am talking overnight???? What kind of temps are experienced at night while traveling in coach??? Does one need to provide their own blanket or pillow??


Yes. Although you can buy the "souvenir" blanket in the lounge car if you want.

Temps can vary. A lot. But you should generally be prepared for the chilly side. Layers, layers.


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## jdcnosse (Apr 18, 2011)

When I was on the SWC they provided these little pillows (and then picked them up at the end of the line) but I had just brought along a blanket to stay warm.


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## TVRM610 (Apr 18, 2011)

You will get a small pillow for overnight trips. Temperatures vary greatly on the train. I've been way too hot, way too cold, and very rarely just right.

Perhaps a silly question, but do the amtrak cars actually have thermostats? It seems that the air vs. heat is either "on or off."

I know that on the single level coaches the "floor heat" is turned on or off from underneath the coach, or that is how it was explained when I rode the Silver Meteor this winter.


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## caravanman (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi,

As I am balding, I always find the A/C too cold, and would recommend a wooly hat at night. You should certainly bring a blanket too, just a cheap one from a drug store works well. It's not so much "cold", it is more the need to shelter from the relentless blast from the A/C. Layers of clothing too, as mentioned are the way to go. The coach passengers are issued with a thin pillow free of charge overnight.

Ed


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## the_traveler (Apr 18, 2011)

You do get a pillow on overnight LD trains, but it is the small "airline type" size (small)! I myself bring one of those inflatable neck pillows.

As far as heat/AC, yes all cars have them, but what is comfortable for one person may not agree with all 60-70 other people in the car! My recommendation is to plan to dress in layers. You can always add more layers or take some off (to a certain extent).


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> Perhaps a silly question, but do the amtrak cars actually have thermostats? It seems that the air vs. heat is either "on or off."


They do, but not like you have at home. It's just a dial numbered 1 to X, not with actual temperatures. So the attendant sort of has to guess at what temp they're actually setting.


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## TVRM610 (Apr 18, 2011)

AlanB said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps a silly question, but do the amtrak cars actually have thermostats? It seems that the air vs. heat is either "on or off."
> ...


Just to be clear, when I say "thermostat" I mean a "device that regulates temperature, or that activates a device when the temperature reaches a certain point"

On the Budd RDC cars at TVRM, the temperature is controlled with a dial that has "low heat, high heat, low cool, high cool" in addition there is a fan you can turn on and off, and also floor heat. If the Amtrak cars are like this, it would be very understandable why temperatures are so unpredictable, its not like someone can just set it at 70 and walk away.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> On the Budd RDC cars at TVRM, the temperature is controlled with a dial that has "low heat, high heat, low cool, high cool" in addition there is a fan you can turn on and off, and also floor heat. If the Amtrak cars are like this, it would be very understandable why temperatures are so unpredictable, its not like someone can just set it at 70 and walk away.


I'm not sure exactly what it says on the dial, but it certainly sounds similar to what you're describing. I've not seen the actual unit/device, but it was described to me as being a dial that just had numbers. But much like that dial for the Budd RDC's, you set/point it at a certain place and then hope that you've guessed right for the current conditions.


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## TVRM610 (Apr 18, 2011)

AlanB said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > On the Budd RDC cars at TVRM, the temperature is controlled with a dial that has "low heat, high heat, low cool, high cool" in addition there is a fan you can turn on and off, and also floor heat. If the Amtrak cars are like this, it would be very understandable why temperatures are so unpredictable, its not like someone can just set it at 70 and walk away.
> ...


I'm guessing it it similar to the RDC system then.

Now I have to wonder about the other trains.. it seems the Acela trains always have a pretty decent temperature, perhaps they have actual thermostat systems? It's funny, I've never even thought about this until today.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > TVRM610 said:
> ...


My guess is that Acela has a more modern/normal set of controls. I think even the Viewliner cars do, certainly the individual controls within the room do, so I suspect that the master controls also do. Not that they can't break either; I was on the Crescent about 3 years ago in the summer and you could have kept meat safe in our car. In fact the very wise and wonderful attendant actually ordered extra blankets from the comissary in WAS as we made our way down the corridor because it was so bad.

They also got someone at DC to look at things, which actually made an big improvement although it was still a bit on the chilly side. But most of the extra blankets went unused, thanks to the better temps after they fiddled with things in DC.

Perhaps if Oldtimer2 wanders by this topic he could better explain and detail how the temp is set on the Superliners, since he worked on them for many years.


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## ScottC4746 (Apr 19, 2011)

PJRACER said:


> For those traveling coach...what is provided for comfort....I am talking overnight???? What kind of temps are experienced at night while traveling in coach??? Does one need to provide their own blanket or pillow??


They do provide an airline type pillow and blanket. I would try to pack my own for comfort and warmth.

You do get a chair that reclines, slightly.

Meals are menu prices and reservations are issued to sleeper passangers first.

Beverages and snacks are available in the lounge car at menu prices

Each coach has at least one airline type bathroom.

There are no shower facilites available to coach passangers. Lots of deoderant and easy on the perfume please.


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## the_traveler (Apr 19, 2011)

ScottC4746 said:


> Each coach has at least one airline type bathroom.


Amfleet (single level) coaches have 2 restrooms per car, while Superliner (bi-level) coaches have 5 restrooms per car!


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## Tumbleweed (Apr 19, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> ScottC4746 said:
> 
> 
> > Each coach has at least one airline type bathroom.
> ...


The restrooms are significantly larger than "airline type" restrooms.......


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## rile42 (Apr 19, 2011)

As many have stated, you do get the small "airlines" type pillows. However, if you get on somewhere, say Cleveland, in the middle of the night, don't count on it.


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## TransitGeek (Apr 19, 2011)

ScottC4746 said:


> You do get a chair that reclines, slightly.


Slightly? Now, I've never been on anything but a Superliner, but the Superliner coach seats recline like crazy. It's like a comfy living room recliner that happens to be on a train, complete with retractable leg and foot rests. I find them very comfortable. (I'm going back east this summer... tell me that Amfleet coach is this nice, please!)


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## Ryan (Apr 19, 2011)

They are. If they're not the identical same seats, they're darn close.


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## the_traveler (Apr 19, 2011)

Amfleet II's (LD) are basically the same as Superliner sears. However Amfleet I's (basically NEC Corridor service) has a very tight pitch and not much recline!


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## TransitGeek (Apr 19, 2011)

the_traveler said:


> Amfleet II's (LD) are basically the same as Superliner sears. However Amfleet I's (basically NEC Corridor service) has a very tight pitch and not much recline!


So- a good night's sleep on the Lakeshore, and a not-so-good night on #66. Good to know.


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## Ryan (Apr 19, 2011)

If you haven't, spring for Business class on 66 and you'll get a better night sleep. It's one of the few trains that still has the 2x1 seating for BC.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Apr 19, 2011)

AlanB said:


> I'm not sure exactly what it says on the dial, but it certainly sounds similar to what you're describing. I've not seen the actual unit/device, but it was described to me as being a dial that just had numbers. But much like that dial for the Budd RDC's, you set/point it at a certain place and then hope that you've guessed right for the current conditions.


Is it possibly like a commercial system, where it maintains a set BTU in (or BTU out)? That's translates to a fixed temperature increase (or decrease) from the outside temperature. I know with such systems, the inside temp tracks the outside temp.


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## PanAm98 (Apr 19, 2011)

TransitGeek said:


> ScottC4746 said:
> 
> 
> > You do get a chair that reclines, slightly.
> ...


They do recline a bit more than an airline seat, but not nearly as much as my home recliner, which practically lays flat. The max recline of a coach seat is a less than 45 degrees. Also, the leg rest is a nice touch, but virtually unusable if you are 6' or over. I'm 6'1" and there isn't enough leg room for me to use the leg rest in coach.

That being said, the seats are about as wide as first class airline seats, but with more leg room. They're a bit close together however, with no arm rest between them, so if you're on a LD trip and you have to share a seat set with a stranger, lets just say you're going to be far more familiar with them by the time you arrive.

They do pass out small airline style pillows at night, but they're pretty much unusable. Luckily I inherited a brand new full size bed pillow from someone who bought it for the trip but couldn't make it, and that made a huge difference in my comfort level. I also wore a jacket with lots of pockets and a hood for versatility. The hood was good for keeping drafts from my head and light out of my eyes. I also highly recommend ear plugs. I had the cheap, squishy type and they worked well.


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## PJRACER (Apr 23, 2011)

Thanks everybody....I think I found out......you do get a small pillow....and maybe a blanket. I found out more than I needed to know about thermostat's and heating/cooling. Good tip in layers...inflate a small beach ball and stuff in a pillow case for pillow....think we will bring our own blanket's, the roll-up type cheapee's.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 23, 2011)

You don't get a blanket except on the AutoTrain. They used to do this, but phased it out several years ago. I have a bunch of blankets I, uh, borrowed from the AutoTrain. Antics like mine are probably why the service disappeared, come to think of it. Its an awesome blanket, extremely thin yet quite warm. I use it for camping trips, Amtrak trips, and the like. It takes up less space in my bag then a paper back novel- no joke. It says "Property of NRPC" on it, too. The only reason I stole it, quite honestly, is I have never seen a better blanket, space efficiency for warmth, available for purchase legitimately.

Coach is a perfectly fine way to travel, but as others said, the temperature varies extensively. I am usually on the hot side. What I do is usually wear shorts under my overalls and a sweater over them. If its warm, I take off the sweater. If its really hot, I go into the bathroom and remove the overalls, too. Bib-type overalls are really the most comfortable and versatile of garments, and why they aren't universally used I haven't a clue. Red Kap makes the best ones in my experience, but Sears also sells Craftsman brand ones.


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## DET63 (Apr 24, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > ScottC4746 said:
> ...


Are they unisex on Amfleet, or do they have separate men's and women's facilities?


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## BobWeaver (Apr 24, 2011)

DET63 said:


> Tumbleweed said:
> 
> 
> > The restrooms are significantly larger than "airline type" restrooms.......
> ...


Unisex.


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## oldtimer (Apr 25, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Perhaps if Oldtimer2 wanders by this topic he could better explain and detail how the temp is set on the Superliners, since he worked on them for many years.


Just checking in here and wanted to tell the folks here that all Amtrak passenger cars are designed to maintain the temperatures between 72 and 74 degrees. There are several types of temperature regulation systems and each car type IE Amfleet I, Amfleet II, Horizon, Superliner I, Superliner II, and Viewliner. In addition to this there have been modifications made to each type of system. Thus it no easy task to have the proper replacement parts or knowledge on hand at all Amtrak locations to handle all HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning) problems.

The designed temperature is usually measured at the return air duct. Try to imagine the problems of controlling the temperature of an 85 foot long piece of uninsulated stainless steel or aluminum that can have as many as 80 people producing body heat, with all four sides exposed to heat loss, with stops that expose the inside to outside air, not to mention that the piece of equipment you need to have maintain a temperature in can go from a subzero air temperature to a 90+ desert environment on the same trip. You can also throw in the fact that the heat problems cannot be duplicated at a warm weather service point and air conditioning problems cannot be properly repaired at the cold end service points.

:help: :wacko: :blink:


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## amamba (Apr 25, 2011)

oldtimer2 said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps if Oldtimer2 wanders by this topic he could better explain and detail how the temp is set on the Superliners, since he worked on them for many years.
> ...


That explains why I felt like I was dying from heat exhaustion in the sleeper on the CS. Why so HOT, especially in the winter?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 25, 2011)

oldtimer2 said:


> There are several types of temperature regulation systems and each car type IE Amfleet I, Amfleet II, Horizon, Superliner I, Superliner II, and Viewliner. In addition to this there have been modifications made to each type of system. Thus it no easy task to have the proper replacement parts or knowledge on hand at all Amtrak locations to handle all HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning) problems.


Airlines suffer from similar differences in varying designs and maintenance issues and yet I suffer non-fixable temperature problems on airplanes extremely rarely. Maybe once or twice in well over a hundred flights. Meanwhile temperature problems on Amtrak are routine in my experience and are rarely taken seriously by the staff. Most of the time I just get shrugged shoulders and advice to take something off or pile on another blanket.


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## oldtimer (Apr 25, 2011)

daxomni said:


> oldtimer2 said:
> 
> 
> > There are several types of temperature regulation systems and each car type IE Amfleet I, Amfleet II, Horizon, Superliner I, Superliner II, and Viewliner. In addition to this there have been modifications made to each type of system. Thus it no easy task to have the proper replacement parts or knowledge on hand at all Amtrak locations to handle all HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning) problems.
> ...



daxomni, Have you ever been stuck in an aircraft that has been pushed back from the gate, just so they can say that the departure was on time? or have you ever been trapped, yes trapped, on an aircraft that has had to wait an extended period of time for takeoff or for an empty gate? If so you will find that it is VERY HOT and stuffy.

This is due to the fact that airplane are designed to heat the cabin, if an aircraft is at the gate often you will find a truck with a ground air conditioning unit pumping cool, fresh air into the aircraft. Modern turbine engine aircraft use indirectly air tapped off the compressor of an engine. The old piston engine aircraft of the 40's and 50's used gasoline heaters and some of the ancient DC 3's even had a steam boiler for heat.

Even though it was 40 years ago I spent 4 years as an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. If you saw the recent "Frontline" on PBS about "penciling" and off-shoring aircraft maintenance you would be as fearful as I am about flying.

My new personal motto is " If you fly you can die, use your brain take the train."

ot2


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 25, 2011)

oldtimer2 said:


> daxomni, Have you ever been stuck in an aircraft that has been pushed back from the gate, just so they can say that the departure was on time? or have you ever been trapped, yes trapped, on an aircraft that has had to wait an extended period of time for takeoff or for an empty gate? If so you will find that it is VERY HOT and stuffy.


Twenty or thirty *minutes* of uncomfortable temperatures on the tarmac is nothing like twenty or thirty *hours* of uncomfortable temperatures on the train. They are in such different categories of annoyance that I'm honestly surprised this forms the crux of your reply. As you said most of the time the aircraft is actively cooled at the gate and is able to easily cool itself once you're in the air. In all the many flights I've taken I can think of only one time this was not the case. On most domestic airlines the temperature can be adjusted by request or by manipulating the air flow vents that actually work. On Amtrak we have temperature knobs and airflow vents that don't seem to control much of anything in my experience. Sometimes I shove stuff in the vent or tape over it. Sometimes I open the door. Sometimes I have no alternative but to bundle up or strip down as the case may be. It would be nice if you could actually control your own temperature or it could be easily adjusted by the staff.



oldtimer2 said:


> Even though it was 40 years ago I spent 4 years as an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. If you saw the recent "Frontline" on PBS about "penciling" and off-shoring aircraft maintenance you would be as fearful as I am about flying. My new personal motto is " If you fly you can die, use your brain take the train."


I can watch movies and reenactments of aircraft crashes while inflight, so I doubt some arbitrary fear is going to play much of a role in my decision making process. Let me know when flying becomes as dangerous as driving. Until then I probably won't be fearing any of my flights.


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## jis (Apr 25, 2011)

daxomni said:


> oldtimer2 said:
> 
> 
> > daxomni, Have you ever been stuck in an aircraft that has been pushed back from the gate, just so they can say that the departure was on time? or have you ever been trapped, yes trapped, on an aircraft that has had to wait an extended period of time for takeoff or for an empty gate? If so you will find that it is VERY HOT and stuffy.
> ...


Even 46 years ago when I got on a 707 it had an on board air-conditioner keeping it cool in the middle of summer in Delhi airport and there was only an electric generator cart connected to it, not any air-conditioner ducts connect5ing to an HVAC cart.

More recently in the middle of summer at Newark I have sat in a 777 parked in the ball-park waiting from clearance from Russia for a window to enter their airspace on a flight to Hong Kong, with the air-conditioner working just fine keeping the interior nice and cool. So I am convinced that this business about requiring an off board HVAC unit to keep the plane cool is a bit of an urban legend. Of course a crew might choose not to run the A/C to save fuel or whatever, but the capability is very much there in modern jets.

When the main engines are on, bleed air is used for pressurizing and heating. Bleed air has to be cooled by using the on-board HVAC unit for cooling while on ground and low altitude in warm ambient temperatures.

On the 787 no bleed air will be used any more. The entire air system is electric on it.



> oldtimer2 said:
> 
> 
> > Even though it was 40 years ago I spent 4 years as an FAA certified Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. If you saw the recent "Frontline" on PBS about "penciling" and off-shoring aircraft maintenance you would be as fearful as I am about flying. My new personal motto is " If you fly you can die, use your brain take the train."
> ...


I suppose the fact that commercial air travel in US has lower per passenger mile fatality and injury than passenger railroad is something that we can ignore to justify feeling paranoid about air travel


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## VrmlBasic (Apr 25, 2011)

> They do provide an airline type pillow and blanket. I would try to pack my own for comfort and warmth.
> 
> You do get a chair that reclines, slightly.
> 
> ...


I never got a blanket or pillow. Ever 

The chairs recline much more than an airplane, though my seats were on the lower level of the double-decker car, and they were the seats with the large empty space behind them (in front of the luggage cubby). I highly recommend those seats, and if you're going to be on the train for any length of time, do NOT get the upper level seats. This cannot be stressed enough. However, be very wary of conductors & AMTRAK overbooking the lower level car.

Sleeper cars do get their meals first, and everyone else is on a per-car basis, provided that the food does not run out. Most food choices and the snack car were empty long before my train reached its destination.

(Also, a snack car is never guaranteed on any train, though only the "special route" trains I've been on have lacked the snack; Hoosier state)

To be fair, AMTRAK's bathrooms annihilate airline bathrooms. Double-decker cars even have a unisex "powder room" in addition to the 5 or so bathrooms. This room spans the whole width of the train, and has 3 sinks & mirrors for prep work. Interestingly enough, despite being designed to hold 3 people at once, the door had a lock. Though do be careful with AMTRAK in times when the weather is below freezing, as the sink drains will freeze and the sinks will then overflow.

There are no shower facilities, as was said, so if you decide to go spend days on AMTRAK without a sleeper car...well, I don't recommend it.

On Temperature, AMTRAK generally does like to make it cold. However, in winter this also means that in several cars the heat will fail and cause riders to have to actually sleep/ride in the lounge car, and that when AMTRAK cuts the power to the train for a several-hour stop in Minneapolis in the dead of night, you'll freeze. (Also, when in coach, remember to find the "manual door override" switch, because when the distance trains cut their power, until you flip that switch, the only way to open the door is to claw your fingers in between the seal and manhandle the door open...and the door springs back when you let go. The conductor didn't tell us this for over 2 hours.)

Most of my long-distance AMTRAK experience has been when they were at their very worst, in more extreme conditions than were the norm. I hope AMTRAK isn't always like that on long-distance routes, but just in case, I mention my experience.

Also, I'm glad this thread was started. The vast majority of guides for taking AMTRAK long distance assume that the traveler will be in a roomette at the very least, long-distance coach is still rather undocumented territory. A shame, as long distance coach is the only option for long-distance AMTRAK travel that is cheaper than driving.


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## transit54 (Apr 25, 2011)

jis said:


> More recently in the middle of summer at Newark I have sat in a 777 parked in the ball-park waiting from clearance from Russia for a window to enter their airspace on a flight to Hong Kong, with the air-conditioner working just fine keeping the interior nice and cool. So I am convinced that this business about requiring an off board HVAC unit to keep the plane cool is a bit of an urban legend. Of course a crew might choose not to run the A/C to save fuel or whatever, but the capability is very much there in modern jets.


Let me jump in here, as when I was in college I worked as ground crew for a major air carrier. The extent of my personal experience is limited to A320s and E190s, but my understanding is that things work about the same way on most modern aircraft.

Aircraft do have an onboard A/C and heating. On the ground, this can be powered by the APU when the engines aren't running, which is also what is used to provide the bleed air to start the engines, as Jis mentioned. That being said, it is common practice to hook an air cart to provide HVAC to an aircraft at the gate, as it is much, much less expensive to operate a freestanding HVAC unit than to run the APU for heating/cooling. During the summer especially, we always connected the air cart as soon as the aircraft arrived. It was practice to immediately shut off the engines as soon as the aircraft was at the gate, and run off ground power, at which point the air cart would need to be connected to prevent the aircraft from getting warm quite quickly.

In short, off-board HVACs are routinely used, it's just a matter of cost savings, not necessity. I saw a number of legacy carriers that didn't use them, but they were heavily in use at my carrier.


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## jis (Apr 25, 2011)

I agree with what Transit says. As long as a cart is available it makes economic sense to use it. But when you are parked in a ball park by the runway awaiting clearance from a ground hold or for synchronizing with an airspace entry window 5,000 miles away - the Russians are notorious for those on the polar flight - "you are permitted to enter our airspace at XYZ only between 15:00 and 15:30 Zulu" - , typically they will not drag a cart out there.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 25, 2011)

transit54 said:


> In short, off-board HVACs are routinely used, it's just a matter of cost savings, not necessity.


That is my understanding as well. Some airports have all this stuff (air, electrical, fuel) built-in to the facilities so you don't always see little carts sitting next to the aircraft. On aircraft with propulsion engines running the air can be cooled just fine but the idling comes at a steep loss to fuel economy. The APU uses less fuel than the main engines but on a really hot day it might not be enough to cool the plane sufficiently on its own and it will still be less efficient than ground power. I believe the relative power of the APU is less of an issue on widebody aircraft.


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## scutterbear (Apr 25, 2011)

Someone mentioned that long distance coach travel isn't mentioned much here. I might can help with that soon.

Im a couple of weeks I will be traveling from Montana to Tennessee and unless a miracle happens, I will make that trip via coach the whole way.

So if I do, I will give a full report once I get back home.

I actually rode coach back about 25 years ago, but that was back in the day when they had actual smoking cars. So I spent the majority of my time in there playing cards with other travelers. LOL, so I guess that trip doesn't count as a verified LD coach experience.

I'm a big ole boy, 6'4" and 400 pounds. So an LD coach experience should be an interesting one, to say the least.


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## PJRACER (Apr 25, 2011)

Will be anxiously awaiting that report...........and how you handle the smoking part (if you still smoke)......need all the tips we can get.	Thanks

So many people on this post are getting into the airline thing...don't know where that happened....I started the post and I don't remember mentioning anything about heating or cooling an airplane.....much less a train-car.....I just asked about pillow's and blankets and dressing somewhat in layers (*whatever that is in August)


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## boxcar479 (Apr 25, 2011)

PJ I love your tenacity! :wub: Keep comin' back


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## scutterbear (Apr 25, 2011)

PJRACER said:


> Will be anxiously awaiting that report...........and how you handle the smoking part (if you still smoke)......need all the tips we can get.	Thanks


When I traveled home last year I took EB to TENN and I was in a sleeper car. That smoking things wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I may have been fortunate, but I had attendants who were wonderful (and a wonderful gal attendant on city of new orleans too) and I let them know when I got on that I was a smoker and asked them politely if they could alert me right before we got to each smoking stop. And they did each and every time.

I had cut back while I was here as I couldn't smoke in mom's house since she is on oxygen, so I had already trained my body to scale back the need for a ciggy. There was one stretch that was about 8 hours or so that I started jonesing just a little, but for the most part, there were stops within 2-4-6 hours each stretch. So it wasn't terrible.

Now coach may be a whole different story. I'm just guessing but I dont think the attendants will work quite that hard as I don't think they are bucking for tips as I think is more common in the sleeper cars. So it could be interesting. Usually if you have a detailed "stop" schedule, you can pretty much tell where you can get off to smoke and where you can't. the longer the stop, of course more chance you have to smoke.

One funny quip about smoking and train travel and probably only a smoker will get this but...........

One thing I did learn is that some of the stops are very short, 5 minutes maybe, so if you get to get off and smoke, you have to be quick. I got pretty good at hot boxing two ciggys in 5 minutes, especially when I knew it was gonna be a long stretch to the next smoke stop. And let me tell ya.......... those times, I got high as a kite. ROFL.

I guess I didn't realize that trying to smoke that much that quick would make ya high. LOL, I kept thinking "they are gonna think I'm smoking pot or crack". ROFL.


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## VrmlBasic (Apr 26, 2011)

"One thing I did learn is that some of the stops are very short, 5 minutes maybe, so if you get to get off and smoke, you have to be quick."

That was my experience with any train other than the Empire Builder.

The EB made several hour-long stops that were regularly scheduled and didn't tell the passengers this. That could have helped with my extreme cabin fever.

Oh, relevant to the thread topic--watch out for a complete and utter lack of outlets in coach. If you're a member of the bourgeois and can score a roomette/bedroom on a LD train, you'll have all the power you can want, but if you choose to tough it out in coach, you run a risk of being deprived the quintessential flow of electrons.

However, on the Empire Builder, the outlets most accessible to coach passengers are in the lounge car, or in the vestibule in the lower part of the double-decker cars. The lounge has maybe 5 outlets, so be quick & watch your plug as some nefarious soul will try to unplug it. (There are outlets in the upper level vestibules of the dining car, or in the pit of the snack car, but those either don't work or are off-limits)

The vestibule is a better choice. Not only does it give you an excuse to get out of your seat (which should be on the lower level, this cannot be stressed enough), and any excuse to stand up is welcome on a 2 day train ride, but since there is only one outlet and it is rather obscure, there will be less demand.

Which reminds me, one of the _most excellent _pieces of advice on this board is to bring a powerstrip. I did, and with the power to turn the one vestibule outlet into 10, I was all but deified. Other riders in my car were giving me food and such as thanks for letting them charge their gadgets without having to resort to the rat race in the lounge. If the movie had been out then, I would have felt like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino when the Hmong pay tribute to him 

(Oh, before I forget, there are outlets in the rail under the window in the lower-level of the double decker cars, but the seats obscure them. Rotating the seats, which was supposedly possible, could make them accessible. None of us bothered to try to figure out the mechanism, as one of us had a small plug that could be put into the obstructed outlet, and once plugged in it showed that the outlet did not function.)

Not to make anyone too fearful, as all other "distance" trains I've been on have had outlets. (NE Regional, Cardinal, AExpress) Even during those many occasions that the Hoosier Limited doesn't run with a snack car, it still has 2 outlets per seat.


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## TraneMan (Apr 26, 2011)

It must be a couple of cars that does not have outlets on coach seats? Last year when we were on the Empire Builder, both ways our coach had outlet at the seat.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 26, 2011)

VrmlBasic said:


> Oh, relevant to the thread topic--watch out for a complete and utter lack of outlets in coach. If you're a member of the bourgeois and can score a roomette/bedroom on a LD train, you'll have all the power you can want, but if you choose to tough it out in coach, you run a risk of being deprived the quintessential flow of electrons.


Most of the time I'm in a roomette and although there is always a power outlet it only works correctly from the start maybe half of the time. Sometimes you can get a flaky outlet to start working by jostling it or by adjusting the tension on cable or whatever, but sometimes it just won't work no matter what. The staff can flip circuit breakers or something but that won't always fix it either or it will fix it and then it dies again later on. I wish the roomettes had more than one outlet in case one is on the fritz. Meanwhile it seems most of the coach cars have now been outfitted with two plugs for every set of two seats. Oh, and I think you meant _bourgeois__*ie*_ in that context.


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## Ryan (Apr 26, 2011)

You've got to be the unluckiest dude in the world or something.

In about 18,000 miles on Amtrak, I've had one trip (WAS-ATL) where the temperature was uncomfortable and I've never had a problem with an outlet not working.


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## Casinocim (Apr 26, 2011)

scutterbear said:


> PJRACER said:
> 
> 
> > Will be anxiously awaiting that report...........and how you handle the smoking part (if you still smoke)......need all the tips we can get.	Thanks
> ...


This is funny, amazing at how much you can make yourself smoke.

I once had to excuse myself in the middle of dinner for a smoke break. Really apologized to my table mates, now I try to make sure I am not eating during a smoke break.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 26, 2011)

Ryan said:


> You've got to be the unluckiest dude in the world or something.


I still make it to my destinations with no mudslides, no bustitutions, no truck impacts, no train wreaks, no pedestrians hit, no burned out locomotives, no frozen doors, no bad ordered cars, no cancelled trains, and nobody thrown off the train. Considering what we know can happen on Amtrak I'd say I'm one of the lucky ones! 

I _do_ have one of the world's worst power adapters in the form of Dell 630 brick, so sometimes that might be the source of the problem. The last time the outlet went out it wasn't just my roomette or even just my car. The whole train's power was cutting out every few minutes. You could tell because most of the lights would go out and the HVAC would stop and everything would suddenly get _really_ quiet. Then it would come back on again a few minutes later. They even stopped the train on the mainline to check it out, but they either couldn't find the problem or couldn't fix it with the tools they had. I remember being a little dismissive when one of SAS' quirky station staff was warning me over and over about the terrible destructive surges that can come through the train's power outlets but on that particular trip I heeded his advice and left my stuff unplugged.


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## AlanB (Apr 26, 2011)

daxomni said:


> I remember being a little dismissive when one of SAS' quirky station staff was warning me over and over about the terrible destructive surges that can come through the train's power outlets but on that particular trip I heeded his advice and left my stuff unplugged.


The staff was either pulling your leg or had no clue what they were talking about. As our resident electrical engineer, now retired from PECO has said more than once, you don't get surges on the train.

The only reason for a surge protector on a train is to allow you to plug more than one thing in at a time or because you have one of those bricks that can't fit into the recessed outlet in some sleeper cars. Beyond that you’re just carrying extra weight around for no logical reason.


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## VrmlBasic (Apr 26, 2011)

> I still make it to my destinations with no mudslides, no bustitutions, no truck impacts, no train wreaks, no pedestrians hit, no burned out locomotives, no frozen doors, no bad ordered cars, no cancelled trains, and nobody thrown off the train. Considering what we know can happen on Amtrak I'd say I'm one of the lucky ones!


Well, you are certainly one of the luckier ones.

A mudslide kept the Coast Starlight from getting to Seattle for 7 hours, and the connecting bus that waited to take me to Vancouver, BC wouldn't leave until they arrived. (Amtrak Cascades was stopped then) Suffice it to say that after spending all that time cooped up in King Street Station (Amtrak didn't tell us what the delay would be, so we didn't want to leave) I now know it like the back of my hand. The original architecture hidden under the drop ceilings was pretty cool IMO. Oh, and those benches need cushions 

I was "bustituted" (stuffed onto a greyhound) from Spokane to Seattle, and from Seattle to Vancouver...and then (weeks later) from Vancouver to Seattle.

In North Dakota, some moron tried to drive her car (old sedan) across the tracks at a crossing, and got stuck in the snow. The train was stopped for over an hour for that, and the amtrak staff told me that the car was hit by the train. The car was pretty smashed up when we finally saw it, but I know I certainly didn't feel any impact (I was in the upper level of the dining car at the time)

The worst part was when the Hoosier State took over 11 hours to go from LAF to CHI (a 3 hour trip by Amtrak). The switches kept freezing, and whomever was charged with defrosting the tracks was tasked elsewhere. There I also saw how freight trains laugh at Amtrak's right to go first on tracks, as several of them went before us. One of the trains was a seemingly endless train of tanker cars with the label "Renewable Products Group" on them. They certainly must have been renewable to have as many as they did. The long duration spent stuck lead to a Union-mandated crew change, and when the taxi with the replacement crew came, there was much unrest amongst the passengers (as we'd been stuck in a freight yard right outside Chicago for hours, and they had told us that no taxis could reach us & we couldn't detrain), but the "poetic justice" of the taxi getting stuck in the snow placated the masses.

If anything was learned from this, it is to never ever, EVER, take the Empire Builder in winter. Ever. This can't be stressed enough. I'd embark on the Empire Builder again...but in the spring/summer, and with a roomette. 3 days without showers or even sinks (the drains froze & they had overflowed) was not cool at all. Maybe they've improved their winter service since then, but I don't know.

In my brief Amtrak career I've thus experienced "Bustitution", mudslide delays, a burned out locomotive (NE Regional, but I got a free Acela ride out of it), Union issues, weather issues, and a vehicular impact. Though with its convenience in the NE and the ridiculously plentiful ways to obtain a beaucoup of Amtrak Points, I'll certainly be back on it again.


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## Ryan (Apr 26, 2011)

VrmlBasic said:


> In North Dakota, some moron tried to drive her car (old sedan) across the tracks at a crossing, and got stuck in the snow. The train was stopped for over an hour for that, and the amtrak staff told me that the car was hit by the train. The car was pretty smashed up when we finally saw it, but I know I certainly didn't feel any impact (I was in the upper level of the dining car at the time)


What kind of impact do you feel when your car strikes a piece of paper? Or a patch of grass that blows across the road?


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## oldtimer (Apr 26, 2011)

VrmlBasic said:


> The long duration spent stuck lead to a Union-mandated crew change, and when the taxi with the replacement crew came, there was much unrest amongst the passengers (as we'd been stuck in a freight yard right outside Chicago for hours, and they had told us that no taxis could reach us & we couldn't detrain), but the "poetic justice" of the taxi getting stuck in the snow placated the masses.


Please think when you post, the crew change was NOT union mandated it is a federal law enforced by the FRA with a loss of the engineer's license if he were to make a willful violation and would not be allowed to work as an engineer. He could also face a fine of several thousand dollars. The operating railroad and the railroad that the engineer worked for could also be fined. I have been a proud union member for over 44 years and have held local and national offices. Even though I am retired I still pay my dues. The breaking of the union's back has been a great contributor to the down falling of the middle class.


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## Shanghai (Apr 26, 2011)

*I have traveled 55,000 miles on Amtrak since 2002 without any major incident.*

*On one trip, my electrical power in my roomette didn't work and the SCA reset*

*the switch and all was fine. I've been late in arriving, but I always got where*

*I was booked to arrive. Never had to bus anywhere and never missed a meal!!*


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## VrmlBasic (Apr 26, 2011)

> Even though I am retired I still pay my dues. The breaking of the union's back has been a great contributor to the down falling of the middle class.


 Begging the question. That tired old line doesn't hold water. Following it logically, it derails (pun). Your first quoted sentence illustrates that you are fervent in your belief, and will not be swayed or "proselytized", so I won't bother. If you are going to make allegations against me then I would appreciate it if they were done properly. BTW, the train crew explained their leaving as being a "union mandate". Blame them for any "miscommunication". I'm not here to argue opinions against facts or quibble over punctilio which I frankly despise. I'm here to relate my coach travel experiences, which were pretty horrendous, and apparently (mercifully) an outlier.


> What kind of impact do you feel when your car strikes a piece of paper? Or a patch of grass that blows across the road?


Oh, I understand that I wouldn't feel anything in such a collision. I only mentioned that as I did not see the collision happen, and only saw the apparent aftermath and the report of the train crew. Not seeing it first-hand and not researching the incident at a later time, there's still a tiny bit of doubt floating around, and I didn't want to put myself on the line for that.
I guess no one here was on the same train I was? Where were you guys? 

(Hoosier State/Cardinal, Empire Builder, Winter 2008; Cascades: Winter 2008/2009)



> I have traveled 55,000 miles on Amtrak since 2002 without any major incident.On one trip, my electrical power in my roomette didn't work and the SCA reset
> 
> the switch and all was fine. I've been late in arriving, but I always got where
> 
> I was booked to arrive. Never had to bus anywhere and never missed a meal!!


That's good to hear, though how much of that was in coach? I'm curious as train travel outside of coach is vastly less efficient than other forms of transit. Not criticizing, and not surprised as this is a train enthusiast site, but when I look at roomette prices I see that I could drive the distance far faster, and for less. I tried to do the whole Roomette thing once, but Amtrak canceled the train on me. (More aptly, they canceled the train I needed to get to the train with the roomette, and then took 2+ months to refund the money from the thus-canceled roomette.) Maybe I'm still "all broke up about that"?


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## Ryan (Apr 26, 2011)

So you'll take the crews (incorrect) word that Union rules, not Federal Law mandates hours of service (and ignore the fact that it's trivial to look up the correct answer), but when presented with a long stop and a busted car, you somehow think that the crew is lying and they just stopped for sh-ts and giggles and then made up a story about it.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 26, 2011)

VrmlBasic said:


> > Even though I am retired I still pay my dues. The breaking of the union's back has been a great contributor to the down falling of the middle class.
> 
> 
> Begging the question. That tired old line doesn't hold water. Following it logically, it derails (pun). Your first quoted sentence illustrates that you are fervent in your belief, and will not be swayed or "proselytized", so I won't bother. If you are going to make allegations against me then I would appreciate it if they were done properly. BTW, the train crew explained their leaving as being a "union mandate". Blame them for any "miscommunication". I'm not here to argue opinions against facts or quibble over punctilio which I frankly despise. I'm here to relate my coach travel experiences, which were pretty horrendous, and apparently (mercifully) an outlier.


You're a fool. Unions have created problems, especially when management of various organizations have strove to make relations as combative as possible. GM might have had an easier time controlling Union costs if they had been reasonable with their Unions in the first place. But over nearly a hundred years of fighting wherein Management attempted to **** them up the *** as hard as they could while the Unions tried to flip them over and do the same, when it became time for do-or-die reformations, the Union and Management were not exactly on such terms where they could reach reasonable results.

However, on the whole Unions have been a great benefit to the nation as a whole, and their defanging has impressively correlated with the wealth divide in this country. I know it doesn't imply causation, but...

Next, I employ people in my business on an hourly basis. But it doesn't matter that they are hourly and don't get paid if we close earlier rather than later. When I say, "Ok guys, start closing up", they will practically shove me and my girlfriend out of the way if they think our closing up isn't being done fast enough. They'd rather get home 15 minutes sooner than get an extra 15 minutes worth of pay, period. I can't imagine train crews being any different. Are they upset they are being paid more? I doubt it- but I'd bet they are more upset that they aren't getting home to their families or crew bases for a needed rest than they are gleeful at the extra money they are making.


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## Susan (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, I'm not sure what "amfleet" means. I'm traveling from Charlottesville, VA to Lafayette, IN - 17 hour trip - anyone know what their coach seats are like?

Do they have the viewliner sleepers? What would the upgrade cost for one person?


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 26, 2011)

Susan said:


> Wow, I'm not sure what "amfleet" means. I'm traveling from Charlottesville, VA to Lafayette, IN - 17 hour trip - anyone know what their coach seats are like?
> 
> Do they have the viewliner sleepers? What would the upgrade cost for one person?


Not as comfortable as, say, a 1980s Mercedes, but pretty good. I can do overnights in them pretty easily. Upgrades on that route can be pretty hight, though. Only one sleeper on it.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 26, 2011)

VrmlBasic said:


> Well, you are certainly one of the luckier ones.)


Or perhaps you're the unlucky one. Arguing from anecdote is useless. I've traveled on the Empire Builder (often in winter, usually in coach) for 30 years, and my opinion is very different from yours. You have your experience, for what it's worth, and I have mine, for what it's worth. I've just had a lot more experiences than you have.


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## AlanB (Apr 27, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Next, I employ people in my business on an hourly basis. But it doesn't matter that they are hourly and don't get paid if we close earlier rather than later. When I say, "Ok guys, start closing up", they will practically shove me and my girlfriend out of the way if they think our closing up isn't being done fast enough. They'd rather get home 15 minutes sooner than get an extra 15 minutes worth of pay, period. I can't imagine train crews being any different. Are they upset they are being paid more? I doubt it- but I'd bet they are more upset that they aren't getting home to their families or crew bases for a needed rest than they are gleeful at the extra money they are making.


While I agree with your analogy here, things at Amtrak are actually worse than the comparison that you make. When an Amtrak crew hits the bumper block at the last station for that trains run, they stop getting paid by Amtrak. Yet there is still work that they must do before they can actually leave the train and go home.

This is one reason that attendants in sleeping cars will always try to get all the linens changed on all the beds before the train gets to the last station stop. If they don't get it done before that point, then they're doing it on their own dime as it were.


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## Meenie (Apr 27, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Susan said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm not sure what "amfleet" means. I'm traveling from Charlottesville, VA to Lafayette, IN - 17 hour trip - anyone know what their coach seats are like?
> ...


Hmmm it's been a long time since I traveled on Amtrak but when I did when I tried to put my seat back, the woman behind me screamed and said I hurt her feet so I had to keep it upright - not that it went back very far anyway. And I couldn't get the foot part to go up. I wound up sleeping across 3 seats in the observation car.


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 27, 2011)

Meenie said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Susan said:
> ...


First of all, if that really happened, that was in an 86 seat Amfleet I, which have been gone from Amtrak service for some years now. Secondarily, if a woman in the seat behind me got her feet hurt by me reclining (which would mean they, for some unknown reason, contorted their feet into the seat mechanism) I think I'd be faster to say "sod off" then to tilt my seat upright.


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## Meenie (Apr 28, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Meenie said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


Oh it really happened. She was an older lady and had some kind of issue with her legs and feet. I have no idea where she had put them or how they were in the way of my seat, but she did shriek and she scared the bejeebers out of me. It was about 8 years ago, going from Wash DC to Chicago. And the seats were extremely uncomfortable, even just to sit on, nevermind to try and sleep. I sure hope they're better now


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 28, 2011)

I can't imagine why that is now, I have slept many a night in Superliner seats.


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## Meenie (May 14, 2011)

I just got home from an Amfleet trip on Wednesday. I don't know if the seat was a I or a II but I didn't find it very comfy for sleeping. It doesn't recline far enough. It does have a leg rest, but to put it up you have to get up, push a lever down and physically reach down and pull the leg rest up to the position you want, then crawl in over it. There is also a little bar type foot rest that is connected to the bottom of the seat in front of you. It's nice as your feet hang off the leg rest and that gets uncomfy after awhile.

The seat is fine for sitting up and reading or watching the scenery, but for sleeping it leaves a lot to be desired. the cushions were blue and very flat. (not thin, but flat as in no curvature)

I bought a travel pillow at Walmart for $3.00 - very good investment. The little pillows they hand out on the train are tiny and not very thick. We weren't offered any blankets but I brought my own - it's a small travel blanket that I received as a gift from my workplace - came in real handy. I also brought a light fleece jacket. It was quite warm when I got on the train but at night it was freezing! My jacket was great to have. Kept me from being a popsicle! (and my nice thick socks I brought too). I have a smallish "hobo" type carryon that I put the pillow, blanket, book, magazine and snacks in. Easy to carry.

Every couple of hours I would to to the cafe car, get a drink and sit there for awhile and read my book or watch the scenery. Gave me a good rest from the coach seat.

There were two bathrooms in each coach car. One was a little larger than the other and had a "transfer board" for people in wheelchairs. Nice touch. Both are roomier than an airline bathroom. but just like on an airplane, whenever I go in one they always hit a rough patch of rail or go around a big curve, rofl. Overall, I like the Amtrak bathrooms.

The attendants and conductor were all pleasant, the people working in the cafe car and the dining car also. The food is a little overpriced but not terribly. I got the mushroom pasta for dinner on the way out and it was delicious (cheapest item on the menu at $14.00) It came with a dinner roll, a small salad, and the pasta which was like big round raviolis filled with meat (five or six of them and they filled the plate) the sauce was good and I enjoyed it very much. There was a flatiron steak for about $23.00. Some kind of chicken dish and I don't remember what else.

Be aware the dining car is small and you will likely be seated with another traveler. I was actually seated with two others who were each traveling alone and we had a great conversation. It turned out to be fun. One was a lady probably in her 80's who was visiting grandchildren, the other was a young man in his 20's who had attended a friend's wedding. I'm 60 and on my way to visit relatives in Illinois and Indiana. You wouldn't have thought we would have had much in common, but we got along great and everyone had some great stories to tell!


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