# Capitol Limited Dining Car



## librarian (Sep 20, 2008)

NARP reported on 9/19/2008 that the Dining Car on the CL has been replaced with the Cross-Country Cafe (Diner-Lounge) due to a shortage of traditional Superliner Diners. However, the CL will retain both the full diner menu and staffed Lounge car.

The same hotline news also states that the prototype Cross-Country Cafe 37000 will be brought up to the "standards of the rest of the fleet," relating to additional storage, convection-microwave ovens, and other features.

Expanded LD Dining car menus will begin October 1 with rotating menus, route-specific specials and more variety -- also part of yesterday's news.


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## AlanB (Sep 20, 2008)

librarian said:


> NARP reported on 9/19/2008 that the Dining Car on the CL has been replaced with the Cross-Country Cafe (Diner-Lounge) due to a shortage of traditional Superliner Diners. However, the CL will retain both the full diner menu and staffed Lounge car.


Gee, talk about a catch 22.

The only reason that Amtrak has a shortage of traditional Superliner Dining cars is because they've embarked on a program to convert them into CCC's.


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## the_traveler (Sep 20, 2008)

Just in time for my trip in 2 weeks! :angry:


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## AlanB (Sep 20, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> Just in time for my trip in 2 weeks! :angry:


And mine.


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## access bob (Sep 20, 2008)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
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and mine, wonder if we'll all be on the same train, I'm traveling west on the Oct 1 Cap limited

Bob


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## AlanB (Sep 20, 2008)

access bob said:


> AlanB said:
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Not me. You'll be on it almost a week before me.


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## PetalumaLoco (Sep 20, 2008)

AlanB said:


> access bob said:
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I'll be on it later in Oct.


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## the_traveler (Sep 20, 2008)

AlanB said:


> access bob said:
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October 6. As Maxwell Smart would say, "Missed you by *THAT* much" Alan! :lol:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 20, 2008)

Since the CL is my home bound train- I take it often and get the know how. I heard a couple months ago that they wanted to make it look more like the Empire Builder- the next time I took her in I heard they were scrapping the dining car and making the CCC.


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## Larry H. (Sep 21, 2008)

Gee we are lucking out too, as we travel on it from Chicago Friday, Sept 26th. From what I am reading though it sounds like the same food and service will be on it as the full diner? If so I won't mind the car so bad.. In fact if the lounge is still running, I might think if the food is the same that it may seem nicer than riding a half used full diner. And frankly the superliner diners are no beauties either. The CC if it would serve decent food is not a bad looking car.

I am more upset by finally reading the Lake Shore schedule closely and realizing were going to be sitting outside NY city for almost three hours where I expected to see some fall scenery in the hudson valley. I rode that route many years ago and recall it being all daylight in that area. They must have changed the schedule along the line. Thats my most irritating part of the trip..


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## The Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2008)

All you guys are going to miss the WUS 100th Anniversary Special on the 4th and 5th!

Supposed to even be a GG1 on display these days!


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## AlanB (Sep 21, 2008)

Larry H. said:


> Gee we are lucking out too, as we travel on it from Chicago Friday, Sept 26th. From what I am reading though it sounds like the same food and service will be on it as the full diner? If so I won't mind the car so bad.. In fact if the lounge is still running, I might think if the food is the same that it may seem nicer than riding a half used full diner. And frankly the superliner diners are no beauties either. The CC if it would serve decent food is not a bad looking car.


Even though the diner is no beauty, and assuming that the CCC serves the same food, the diner still offers a major advantage over the CCC. It can seat more people at once, therefore ensuring that on a sold out train that sleeping car passengers aren't eating their dinners at midnight.



Larry H. said:


> I am more upset by finally reading the Lake Shore schedule closely and realizing were going to be sitting outside NY city for almost three hours where I expected to see some fall scenery in the hudson valley. I rode that route many years ago and recall it being all daylight in that area. They must have changed the schedule along the line. Thats my most irritating part of the trip..


And as I already mentioned in the other topic, you won't be sitting in ALB for three hours.


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> All you guys are going to miss the WUS 100th Anniversary Special on the 4th and 5th!
> Supposed to even be a GG1 on display these days!


Yeah, I hear about it after I made plans. :angry: I'll be just riding through WUS on the Crescent on Oct 4, and then having a layover there on Oct 6!


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## access bob (Sep 21, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> All you guys are going to miss the WUS 100th Anniversary Special on the 4th and 5th!
> Supposed to even be a GG1 on display these days!


well this is business trip and the International Public transportation Expo will be in San Diego Oct 6-8

gotta work work work.

besides i go thru WAUS almost daily and there probably isn't a G motor I haven't ridden behind....

enjoy the "Big Motor"

Bob


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 21, 2008)

Where was this information? I can't find it.

Also, how certain is it they are keeping their lounge cars?


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## dspacekd (Sep 21, 2008)

Just got off the CL tonight (9/21) in WAS from CHI. The dining car was the new style with the LED lights at the table and overhead. Also had new blue leather seating. The omelets in the morning were EXCELLENT (cooked freshly, not precooked like on the SWC the day before). Also the Flat Iron steak was mouthwatering and delicious... haven't had a steak that good in a while!

Only downside to the trip was the CL was 3:30 mins late into WAS so we missed some time with family.


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## wayman (Sep 22, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Where was this information? I can't find it.
> Also, how certain is it they are keeping their lounge cars?


NARP Hotline


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## Brahmama (Sep 22, 2008)

dspacekd said:


> Just got off the CL tonight (9/21) in WAS from CHI. The dining car was the new style with the LED lights at the table and overhead. Also had new blue leather seating. The omelets in the morning were EXCELLENT (cooked freshly, not precooked like on the SWC the day before). Also the Flat Iron steak was mouthwatering and delicious... haven't had a steak that good in a while!
> Only downside to the trip was the CL was 3:30 mins late into WAS so we missed some time with family.



Good to hear the positive report about the dining car and especially the quality of the food. We'll be enjoying the CL in about a week.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 22, 2008)

AlanB said:


> librarian said:
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> > NARP reported on 9/19/2008 that the Dining Car on the CL has been replaced with the Cross-Country Cafe (Diner-Lounge) due to a shortage of traditional Superliner Diners. However, the CL will retain both the full diner menu and staffed Lounge car.
> ...


I had a CCC on the texas eagle trip back in may looked no different then any other dining car.


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## had8ley (Sep 22, 2008)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> AlanB said:
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> > librarian said:
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Sounds like they used a full diner as the CCC is radically different in lay-out than the traditional diner. IIRC, May was the upstart for the CCC on the Eagle and you may have just missed the cut-over. We rode on a CCC from San Marcos to Fort Worth in May but don't remember exactly what day.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 22, 2008)

had8ley said:


> KISS_ALIVE said:
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then they just called the full diner a CCC as thats what they called it over the P.A and thats what the menu said


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## had8ley (Sep 22, 2008)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> had8ley said:
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Well whatever came over the PA was not what you experienced. You probably had the diner-lite menu in the conventional diner. I now remember when you posted that you made the first CCC trip, about a week or so before our trip, and was rather bewildered when the on board Customer Service Manager said that our run was the first for the CCC. There are plenty of pix of the CCC on various posts on here. You might want to compare them to the diner you rode on. You can't call a full diner a CCC because it is as different inside as a baggage car is to a cabbage engine. The CCC's WERE diners before the conversion and are very different~ there is no way to mistake one for the other.


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## The Metropolitan (Oct 5, 2008)

Here's a transcript of the Capitol's New Dining Car Menu:

BREAKFAST

MAIN COURSES

All breakfast entrees include jiuce (orange, apple, cranberry) and coffee, tea, or milk.

Chef's Good Morning Special: $8.00

Ask your server for a description of today's marketplace special.

Today's Omelet Selection: $9.00

Freshly made three egg omelet served plain, with natural cheddar cheese, or stuffed with today's vegetable filling, which your server can describe. Served with hash browned potatoes or grits, warm biscuit or small croissant. (Egg substitutes available upon requent)

Scrambled Eggs: $6.00

Scrambled whole eggs offered with breakfast potatoes or grits, warm biscuit, or croissant.

Classic Railroad French Toast: $7.50

Traditional thick slices of egg batter dipped toast, grilled to a golden brown and served with syrup, strawberry topping, and dusted with powdered sugar.

Continental Breakfast: $7.00

Available with a choice of cold cereal (Raisin Bran Crunch, Rice Krispies, Frosted Flakes) or hot oatmeal, served with fresh whole fruit, a small croissant or warm biscuit and yogurt.

SIDES:

Breakfast Meats: $3.00

Smoked bacon strips, pork sausage patties, or smoked chicken maple sausage links (note that chicken sausage links contain no pork)

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LUNCH

APPETIZER*

Spicy Buffalo Wings: $7.50

A basket of spicy wings, sized for sharing, accompanied by blue cheese dip, sliced cucumbers, and cherry tomatoes.

MAIN COURSES

All Luncheon entrees include coffee, tea, or milk.

Chef's Luncheon Special: $9.00

Ask your server to describe today's special hot offering which is served with a rice medley, small green salad, and warm roll.

Today's Warm Sandwich: $8.00

Your server can describe today's speicalty warm sandwich served on artisan bread which will include a small green salad with cherry tomatoes and parmesan cheese.

Amy's Organic Veggie Burger: $7.75

A natural organic veggie burger patty served on a sesame bun with lettuce, tomato, red onion, pickle, chips and optional cheddar cheese.

Angus Steak Burger: $7.75

Gilled Angus beef chuck burger served on a sesame bun with lettuce, tomato, red onion, pickle, chips, and optional cheddar cheese.

Also available with two smoked bacon strips for an additional $2.00

Freshly Made Specialty Salad: $9.00

Crispy romaine with cherry tomatoes and fresh cucumbers, topped with a prepared protein salad which your server can describe. Served with a dressing selection and a warm roll.

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DINNER

APPETIZER*

Spicy Buffalo Wings: $7.50

A basket of spicy wings, sized for sharing, accompanied by blue cheese dip, sliced cucumbers, and cherry tomatoes.

MAIN COURSES

(All Dinner Entrees include a small salad with dressing, warm roll and coffee, tea, or milk.)

Flat Iron Steak: $22.50

An 8 ounce steak marinated in garlic butter and cooked to order. Served with a baked potato, sour cream, and vegetable medley. This USDA corn-fed choice top blade steak is aged for 21 days to ensure flavor complexity. A glass of merlot or cabernet would complement this American Classic.

Today's Seafood Selection: $17.50

Please consult your server about today's marketplace offering which will be served with rice medley, complementary sauce and vegetable. Our chilled crisp Pinot Grigio would complement this main course selection.

Chef's Marketplace Dinner Special $16.95

Your server will describe tonight's special offering.

Herb Roasted Half Chicken $14.00

Thyme and parsley roasted chicken, served with rice and today's vegetable. Consider enhancing this menu choice by enjoying a glass of Chardonnay.

Vegeterian Pasta: $12.50

Today's menu selection will be described by your server and is offered with vegetables and a special sauce designed to complment this unique dish.

DESSERTS

Specialties: $5.00

Your server will tempt you by describing today's selections, which will include a cheese cake, a fruit or nut dessert, and a chocolate offering.

Ice Cream: $2.00

A mall cup of rich and creamy Haagen Dazs, chocolate or vanilla bean.

*Note that alcohol and appetizer selections are available as an extra purchase and are not included in first class meal packages.


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## The Metropolitan (Oct 5, 2008)

A picture of some of the offerings from yesterday's Union Station Celebration:


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## Guest_cpamtfan_* (Oct 6, 2008)

Don't you like the new food!  The favored part of my trip to D.C. Sat was the Diner-Lounge :lol: .

cpamtfan-Peter


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## wayman (Oct 6, 2008)

> Amy's Organic Veggie Burger: $7.75A natural organic veggie burger patty served on a sesame bun with lettuce, tomato, red onion, pickle, chips and optional cheddar cheese.


Finally, a veggie burger back on the menu (Gardenburgers were still on the menu, but recalled and not available due to the tomato scare for much of the spring/summer), and a big improvement over the Gardenburger IMO! Amy's burgers are by far my favorite widely-available veggie burger.

Interesting that they're down to a single appetizer, but haven't eliminated the category altogether. Problems keeping the shrimp cocktail fresh, or it just didn't sell? I thought the mozzarella sticks were popular. Oh well.

I'm always bemused by how "chatty" the Amtrak menus are. I don't think I've ever seen such a folksy menu in a restaurant. Anyone know if there's a reason for this?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 6, 2008)

And why is it always CHEDDAR cheese? Seriously, no American? You're Amtrak- not Chedrak...

Always with the cheddar...


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## PetalumaLoco (Oct 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And why is it always CHEDDAR cheese? Seriously, no American? You're Amtrak- not Chedrak...
> Always with the cheddar...


Leftovers from the Great Government Cheese Give-Away of the '80s.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 6, 2008)

PetalumaLoco said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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I love cheese... it is the ONE cheese I cannot stand... And its on everything!


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## Neil_M (Oct 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And why is it always CHEDDAR cheese? Seriously, no American? You're Amtrak- not Chedrak...
> Always with the cheddar...


That's because a proper Cheddar is a thing of joy..... You colonials need educating in all things 'fromage' 

Could be worse.... could be that cheese slice cheese flavoured junk beloved of fast food hellholes.....


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## Walt (Oct 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And why is it always CHEDDAR cheese? Seriously, no American? You're Amtrak- not Chedrak...


The last I checked, Wisconsin was in the USA. 

And they offer some pretty cool hats.


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## Walt (Oct 6, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> ...All Luncheon entrees include coffee, tea, or milk.
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Interesting, no mention of soft drinks like ice tea nor soda (pop). :unsure:


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## The Metropolitan (Oct 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
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Then just pull the Jack Nicholson routine from Easy Rider, order a salad with just the Parmesan cheese, hold the salad, dressing, and roll, and a burger hold the cheese?!? 

That or snatch up a Cheese and Crackers Tray from the Lounge Car, and use the Bonbel or Gouda in that on your burger!


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## wayman (Oct 6, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> Then just pull the Jack Nicholson routine from Easy Rider, order a salad with just the Parmesan cheese, hold the salad, dressing, and roll, and a burger hold the cheese?!?


I once ordered a glass of milk at a Pizzaria Uno, and was billed for a "White Russian -vodka -kahlua"! :blink:

Meanwhile, on Amtrak I once ordered a white russian and was billed for two cocktails, because it included both vodka and kahlua. The server neglected to mention this aspect of billing when I ordered (and told me "all cocktails $n", where I forget if $n was $5 or $10), so I was somewhat put out!


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## Tony (Oct 6, 2008)

wayman said:


> I once ordered a glass of milk at a Pizzaria Uno, and was billed for a "White Russian -vodka -kahlua"! :blink:


Would that not be a glass of cream or half-and-half then?


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## Steve4031 (Oct 6, 2008)

Walt said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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Go Bears!!!!


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## Ispolkom (Oct 6, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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They call it cheddar, but it could just as well be Swiss or Muenster or Colby or plastic. The United States has some of the finest cheesemakers in the world, just as it has the finest brewers. Alas, we're known for American cheese and watery lager.


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## Neil_M (Oct 7, 2008)

Ispolkom said:


> Neil_M said:
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'Swiss' is an Americanisation of what are superb products. So where are these world class cheesemakers in the USA? I adore cheese ('proper' cheese, that is, not mass produced tasteless rubbish), yet never see any in your restaurants or food outlets. Must be very local.

As for beer, well, I do enjoy a glass of Anchor Steam or Sam Adams, but 'finest in the world'??

You have heard of places like Belgium and Germany have you?


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## Hamhock (Oct 7, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> So where are these world class cheesemakers in the USA? I adore cheese ('proper' cheese, that is, not mass produced tasteless rubbish), yet never see any in your restaurants or food outlets. Must be very local.


There are loads of quality cheese-producers in the US; you would, indeed, need to buy from local/small specialty shops, rather than your average supermarket or chain store. Quality restaurants, at least in my area (Portland, Maine), are offering very good cheese course selections as well. New England seems to be developing quite the knack for goat cheese, of all things.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2008)

Hamhock said:


> Neil_M said:
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> > So where are these world class cheesemakers in the USA? I adore cheese ('proper' cheese, that is, not mass produced tasteless rubbish), yet never see any in your restaurants or food outlets. Must be very local.
> ...


We have good butter and farmer's cheese in Amish Ohio-

I love grilled butter cheese sandies!!

But cheddar? Blech!


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## MrFSS (Oct 7, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Hamhock said:
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> > Neil_M said:
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I use to live near Colby, WI, where they make, Colby Cheese. But the best part is french fried cheese curds from the curds of the Colby making process.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2008)

Colby is good... Sell some to Amtrak!


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## MrFSS (Oct 7, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Colby is good... Sell some to Amtrak!


You'd think with the EB traversing Wisconsin they would have that as a regional choice, or at least for the burgers!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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They do have broasted chicken dinners from Havre- local cuisine!

Bah!


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## Ispolkom (Oct 7, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> 'Swiss' is an Americanisation of what are superb products. So where are these world class cheesemakers in the USA? I adore cheese ('proper' cheese, that is, not mass produced tasteless rubbish), yet never see any in your restaurants or food outlets. Must be very local.As for beer, well, I do enjoy a glass of Anchor Steam or Sam Adams, but 'finest in the world'??
> 
> You have heard of places like Belgium and Germany have you?


Go to a specialty cheese store in any large American city and start sampling (hint: if they don't give out samples, find another cheese store). You'll be surprised. Lately I've been enjoying blue cheese from Rogue Creamery, Point Reyes, and (an old favorite) Maytag in Iowa. Carr Valley has a nice 4- and 5-year old cheddar, if you're into the Wisconsin thing.

WRT beer: I have drunk a lot of beer in Germany, Belgium, and the United Kingdom. I've drunk gueze so sour it could strip paint in a little cafe in Bruegel country. I've sampled four wonderful stouts from small breweries in Hereford (only a pound a pint) when the rest of the pub was drinking alcopops and American Budweiser. I've spent any number of evenings arguing with Germans that Budvar and Pilsner Urquell were superior to any of their pilsners.

Find me a German or Czech pils as good as Victory Prima Pils from Downingtown, Pa.

Find me a Belgian beer as inventive as Mo Betta Bretta from Pizza Port in Solana Beach, Cal.

American brewers brew every style in the world, from mild to doppelbock. Try to find a cask-conditioned ale in Germany, or a decent British-brewed bock.

I'll grant you that the average beer in Europe is better than the average beer in the U.S., and probably that's also true of cheese (I don't remember particularly falling in love with the cheese at Sainsbury or Tesco). In fact, I mentioned that in my original post. My point was that in these fields, as in much of American culture, the really excellent (and often small and local) products are obscured by the vast sea of mediocre industrial production.

Obligatory train content: the Empire Builder wine tasting does use Minnesota cheese (from Faribault, I believe). Sorry, Wisconsin. I just wish that the lounge car had a few bottles of Great Northern Porter, brewed in St. Paul a few hundred yards from the Empire Builder's route.


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## Neil_M (Oct 7, 2008)

Ispolkom said:


> American brewers brew every style in the world, from mild to doppelbock. Try to find a cask-conditioned ale in Germany, or a decent British-brewed bock.


But that's the whole thing. If I want German beer I will go to Germany, not America. Doing high quality copies is one thing, developing your own style is a lot better. I want to see what you can do, rather than how well you can copy someone.


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## Ispolkom (Oct 7, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> Ispolkom said:
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> ...


But you have to compare an artisan's skill you have to compare apples to apples. That's why events like the Great American Beer Festival divide entered beers into categories. Originality is much harder to judge. And while you may enjoy traveling to Belgium or Germany to drink their beers, as do I, I am also happy to live in a country where producers aren't hide-bound traditionalists, limited to certain ingredients or styles.

In any case none of this says anything to your mistaken assumption that the United States produces neither superlative cheese nor beer.

Little of which can be found on Amtrak, alas, except in my compartment.


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## sechs (Oct 7, 2008)

MrFSS said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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You'd think that some Wisconsin cheese industry group might get their own product placed on the train. Works for wine.


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 8, 2008)

Oy veigh, its all a matter of bloody opinion. I think nobody makes decent beer, because I hate the bloody taste of it. If you don't like American beer, Neil, don't drink it. I don't. If American's like American beer, than its damned right fine.

Frankly, I think almost all British food is so bloody inedible, we should be using it for bleedin' cattle feed. Marmite? BLECH! I get nauseous thinking of it. Do I go around making such disparaging remarks in places they don't belong vis a vis your culture? No, I don't. Please don't go around doing it needlessly and pointlessly.


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## Neil_M (Oct 8, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I think nobody makes decent beer, because I hate the bloody taste of it.


That explains a lot......... h34r:



Green Maned Lion said:


> Frankly, I think almost all British food is so bloody inedible, we should be using it for bleedin' cattle feed. Marmite? BLECH! I get nauseous thinking of it. Do I go around making such disparaging remarks in places they don't belong vis a vis your culture? No, I don't. Please don't go around doing it needlessly and pointlessly.


That's a bit funny coming from someone who shoves his blinkered opinions about everything down everyone's throats on a regular basis!

Oh, and your bacon is rubbish, pancakes are never a breakfast item, you write the date the wrong way round and your spelling is awful. Color?? :angry:


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## AlanB (Oct 8, 2008)

Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?

And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!

It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.

If the CCC is indeed here to stay, then at the very least it must run with two SA's and one LSA!


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 8, 2008)

Neil_M said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
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Pay more attention to my posts. I often spell things half American and half British, since I spent more than a little time abroad.

Further, Neil, I share my relevant opinions just like everyone else. I can't quite see, however, how the "suckiness" of American bacteriaized dairy products and fermented barley relates to the utilization of a new type of food service car on the Capitol Limited. Would you care to enlighten me?


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## Neil_M (Oct 9, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Would you care to enlighten me?


Its an off topic, random rant-ette. Same as some other fool gibbering on about how Blackberries are the spawn of the devil and travelling over 50mph should be against the law.

Or do you want to have a monopoly on talking crap? :blink:


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## Larry H. (Oct 9, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?
> And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!
> 
> It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.
> ...



Allen when we rode this car on the Capitol on Sept 26th it was two full sleepers and some in the crew car. We were still sitting in the diner at 11PM and no coach passengers had been allowed to eat! Contrary to your experience with good service we had abysmal service, or should I say "none". We were seated at 9PM and most of the time saw the waiter only when we went after him.


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## Trogdor (Oct 9, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Well while the food was just fine, this car is still a major mistake for the Capitol Limited. If they can't get all the sleeper pax through the car before 9:30 PM when the sleepers weren't sold out, what's going to happen during the peak periods?
> And an even bigger mistake is management thinking that this car can be run with one SA and one LSA. I give full credit to the two guys working our car, they were doing their absolute best. But there is simply no way that they can handle the crowd in that car. It doesn't work!
> 
> It is simply not humanly possible for them to have done anything more, and yet they still could not meet the needs of the passengers. Service wasn't horrible, in fact they pretty much managed to keep the bulk of the passengers happy, in part because most saw just how hard they were working. But even then things were missed, people waited to order, and they couldn't even think about cleaning the tables for the next seating. But for a supervisor who was riding the train, the tables would never have been cleared.
> ...


I can't understand why Amtrak, which had seemingly good plan for the diner-lounge service, has fallen back on running it like a normal dining car. Diner-lounge (or CCC, or whatever they want to call it) really only works when it's open continuously, without predesignated "seatings" for specific meal times.

I recently took the Texas Eagle, which had a CCC and a Sightseer Lounge. The timetable said that the Sightseer Lounge was unstaffed, and for seating only. For food/snacks, one had to go to the diner-lounge.

The key selling point of the diner-lounge, which was supposed to make service better than what Amtrak previously/currently had, was that it was open continuously (at least, from 11 am to 11 pm), and you could by small items off the menu (such as appetizers, a burger, or desserts) without getting a full meal service. This could actually be done with one LSA and two SAs. Since there wouldn't be specific "meal times" (and no reservations would be required), there wouldn't be a huge rush at set intervals. Therefore, the LSA wouldn't be tied up with the task of standing in the middle of the car and pointing people to their seats. He/she could then help out the SAs with taking orders and delivering food. If people could eat lunch at 2 or 3 pm (and they knew they could eat lunch at that time, without worrying if the diner would be closed), there wouldn't be a rush of people trying to eat lunch at 11:30 am or 12:00n. Likewise, if people knew that the "dinner menu" would be available for service from 5 pm until 11 pm (and they wouldn't necessarily have to announce it right at 5, but instead make periodic announcements reminding passengers of the services available in the diner-lounge throughout the day), you wouldn't have a rush of people all trying to sit down at the same time.

Having the third staff member would make service go quicker (and by putting him in the diner-lounge instead of the sightseer lounge, Amtrak could make more money selling $8 burgers and $5 appetizers rather than $4 microwave burgers and $3 hot dogs).

I will say that Amtrak was foolish to believe they could eliminate the other car completely. The sightseer car should still run in tandem with the diner-lounge (even if it is not staffed). The refurbished lounges could have the booth-tables on the upper level used as overflow diner seating when necessary (I mean, the view would be much nicer there anyway).

When Amtrak was running the tests of the diner-lounge two years ago, the service worked very well. However, they also had two service managers on board overseeing things and helping out. Now that Amtrak is putting the car into regular service, they are reducing staff levels to the point where it can't work. What's worse is that they're continuing to staff the Sightseer Lounge, rather than moving that employee to the diner-lounge where he could sell the exact same things, plus more (meaning that service would not, in any way, be downgraded for passengers that wanted to buy from the existing lounge menu). What's more, with all of the staff in one car, they wouldn't have to close the sightseer lounge in the middle of a busy meal period just so the LSA can take his meal break. They could rotate the crew meals during off hours, without ever having to close up shop for the passengers.


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## librarian (Nov 7, 2008)

Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 7, 2008)

librarian said:


> Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.


We rode the CL on 10/21-22. Although I agree the new CCC was a step down from a true diner, the staff did a good job.


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## AlanB (Nov 7, 2008)

librarian said:


> Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.


Actually if the staff does use the lounge side, the capacity of the car is greater than the capacity of a Superliner dining car. However, one LSA and one SA, along with one cook downstairs cannot possibly handle 85 passengers at once. Heck, they can't even handle more than 45 at once and even that is really pushing it. And therein lies the biggest problem with this car, Amtrak seems to think that with sleepers at capacity or near capacity, that the three man/women crew can handle that many diners at once.

If we assume that each room is occupied by 1.5 people, since some rooms will have two pax while other only one pax, that's still 72 people who will most likely want meals. Now granted they do stagger meal times a bit, but that's still a lot of people through the diner for a very small crew. And let's not forget that coach people want to come in too, the average occupancy might be closer to 1.75 in the sleepers, and the LSA has many other duties beyond just playing waiter.

Unless the passenger load in the sleepers is less than 54, IMHO this car should not be run with fewer than 2 SA's, 1 LSA, and 2 cooks.

I had what I considered to be a great crew in the dining car on the CL last month on my way to the Gathering in LA. These two guys worked their butts off and still, there was simply no way that they could keep up with the demmand. There was even a Supervisor on board, a very nice lady whose name I didn't get. She was busy helping out by clearing tables and resetting them, and still they couldn't get the people served fast enough and kept falling behind on calling the next group of reservations.

One SA, one LSA, and one cook does not work on this train unless sleeper occupancy is lower than 50% of capacity.


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## amamba (Nov 8, 2008)

Is the CL the only train running this menu in this type of car? Do you think they are testing this to expand it to other routes?


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## Kevin L. (Nov 8, 2008)

So, as I will be riding the CL for 18 hours from DC to Lafayette, IN (LAF), I should bring a fair amount of food because as a coach passenger I'm not going to get dining access?


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## profwebs (Nov 8, 2008)

Kevin L. said:


> So, as I will be riding the CL for 18 hours from DC to Lafayette, IN (LAF), I should bring a fair amount of food because as a coach passenger I'm not going to get dining access?


I was in coach on the CL 2 times this year and both times I was able to have a meal in the diner. Even if you can't get into the diner now(CCC), they are still running the sightseer lounge with the snack bar downstairs. Plenty of snacks available, so if you do decide to bring food, you shouldn't have to bring much.


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## Dental Wiz (Nov 9, 2008)

AlanB said:


> librarian said:
> 
> 
> > Our trip this week on the CL found that the newly renovated CCC cars don't work well as a traditional diner. Those silly booths reduce the number of diners. The lounge side wasn't used at all as the real Lounge car was in the consist and operational. The food was okay, but the staff seemed poorly organized and unsure of how to operate the space.
> ...


Alan,

Please email Amtrak customer service. If you get a canned response, don't just accept it. Email them back again and persist. Tell them about your trip on the Cap and your comments. Customer service will likely give you a call.

Steve


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 9, 2008)

I've gathered that the CCC conversions pretty much on hold for now. I'm not sure, but it sure has been a while since any were released from Beech Grove.


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## AlanB (Nov 9, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I've gathered that the CCC conversions pretty much on hold for now. I'm not sure, but it sure has been a while since any were released from Beech Grove.


Huh? :unsure:

How did you gather that? One was just release in August exactly three months ago, with one more scheduled for conversion by the fiscal year end in September. However since Amtrak hasn't yet released the September monthly report, I can't yet verify that BEE managed to finish the final conversion of the 14 that were scheduled and budgeted for in Fiscal 2008.

I haven't yet seen this year's budget to know what, if anything, was scheduled for this fiscal year.


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