# Gallery cars on commuter rail



## zoltan (Sep 19, 2008)

This would be nothing less than my second post here. I'm from Northern England, and in all of my visits to the states I have tried to experience a bit more of the vast railway network. My first trip took me to Maryland, and it was the MARC trains that sparked my first interest in North American railways.

And it's this that brings me to my first topic, because if there's one thing that unites commuters on the nearest line to where I visited my friend in Maryland in, it's hate of the ex-Metra gallery cars. So I've heard a lot about the relatively small set of new arrivals to the Maryland network, although all but one of my journeys have been on their ancient single levels; I've never had the chance to experience the gallery cars myself.

So anyone from Chicago, Northern Virginia, the bay area, etc., etc., might be able to shed light on my curiosities about these cars.

1. can the gallery cars REALLY work? I find this hard to believe. That is, is it really the case that guards are able to check tickets on both levels from the lower deck aisle, despite the fact the upper deck must naturally be higher up than a person of average height?

2. How can it be remotely possible to fit the open central space, an aisle on either side, and also four seats, across the width of the upper deck?

3. What is the seating configuration on the upper and lower decks?

4. Where are the staircases placed?

Of course, I would merely wait and see for myself, but any commuters from Frederick will know that Monocacy station's high platform forbids the cars from the particular branch that's relevant to my travels into deepest Maryland.


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## AlanB (Sep 19, 2008)

zoltan said:


> 1. can the gallery cars REALLY work? I find this hard to believe. That is, is it really the case that guards are able to check tickets on both levels from the lower deck aisle, despite the fact the upper deck must naturally be higher up than a person of average height?


Yes, it's really possible for the conductor to check tickets from the lower deck. The bottom of the upper deck is probably about 5 - 1/2 feet, maybe 6 feet above the floor of the lower level. So a conductor only need extend his/her arm above their head and they can easily reach the clips that hold the tickets for the upper level riders. And if the passenger didn't place their ticket in the clip, then their outstreached hand can easily meet the conductors for a handoff.



zoltan said:


> 2. How can it be remotely possible to fit the open central space, an aisle on either side, and also four seats, across the width of the upper deck?


It's not. The upper level only has a single seat on each side, an isle, and of course the central open space. By the way, that central open space actually has a luggage rack.









zoltan said:


> 3. What is the seating configuration on the upper and lower decks?


IIRC, the lower level is 2 & 2, but it's been a while. Upper as already noted has one seat on each side.



zoltan said:


> 4. Where are the staircases placed?


The car has center doors that lead into a vestibule. As one leaves the vestibule and enter's the seating areas, one to the left one to the right, there is a small wrap around staircase on each side that leads to the two upper levels.


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## zoltan (Sep 19, 2008)

Now that is an odd system I wouldn't have imagined; that there are clips for holding the tickets of upper deck passengers! However, the whole concept of gallery cars seems to be less useful than I would have hoped, as the configuration adds only 50% to capacity, even when disregarding the loss of capacity for staircases; I would expect a more serious increase in capacity to repay the investment in double level carriages.

Also, your picture of the upper deck seems to accurately portray why the commuters in Maryland so dislike the carriages and complain about their comfort!


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## AlanB (Sep 19, 2008)

zoltan said:


> Now that is an odd system I wouldn't have imagined; that there are clips for holding the tickets of upper deck passengers! However, the whole concept of gallery cars seems to be less useful than I would have hoped, as the configuration adds only 50% to capacity, even when disregarding the loss of capacity for staircases; I would expect a more serious increase in capacity to repay the investment in double level carriages.


The clip is on the rail about the heads of those sitting on the lower level. This way both the conductor and the passenger can reach it. In fact, if you look at the above picture on the right side you'll see an orange colored stripe. If you look carefully down that stripe, you'll see to white spots, one in the middle and one at the far end. Those are tickets being held by the clips.


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## gswager (Sep 19, 2008)

Been on it few times- Metra in Chicago and Caltrain in the Bay area (San Francisco).

It's a little odd with those gallery train. One safety hazard is there is only one exit on upper level, go back where you came from, is stairs. The end of the aisle is a long seat for two passengers.

There is one thing that a lot of people are not aware of with upper levels- the backseat can be flipped to either direction, facing the direction of train or to the rear of train.


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## fizzball (Sep 19, 2008)

AlanB said:


> The clip is on the rail about the heads of those sitting on the lower level. This way both the conductor and the passenger can reach it. In fact, if you look at the above picture on the right side you'll see an orange colored stripe.



Another thing not evident in the photo: just behind the fellow with the map, there is an array of 4-5 seats facing the center.

I don't mind the gallery cars on the Metra. I usually sit upstairs if I'm riding alone.


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Sep 19, 2008)

I ride a Caltrain round trip two to three times a week, and I am 99% sure that all their seats are fixed and that none of the upper level seats face sideways. Except for a pair of facing seats on the lower level adjacent to the center car entrance, all seats face toward the door.

I would consider the 50% increase in capacity over that of a single level car well worth it. I will have to count, but I beleive that there is very little difference in capacity between the gallery cars and the true bi-levels that are coming into use. Checking tickets is much easier in the gallery as all can be checked on the same pass through the car, while the bi-level requires the the conductor to make two passes through each car plus having to go up and down the steps, again in every car.

In addition, in the gallery car, the engineer's position is on the upper level which places him above the idiots at road crossings while on the bi-levels he is eating metal if the train hits anything larger than a small car.


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## zoltan (Sep 19, 2008)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> Checking tickets is much easier in the gallery as all can be checked on the same pass through the car, while the bi-level requires the the conductor to make two passes through each car plus having to go up and down the steps, again in every car.


Those commuter railroads I've experienced on the East Coast all have a conductor and an assistant conductor, the former being responsible for dispatching the trains at stations, is this true of most systems?

If so, of course, on systems with lower level entry (as opposed to the intermediate level entry of MARC's Kawasaki bi-levels), on which all doors opened at most stations, the less busy assistant conductor could be charged with responsibility for the upper deck, and the conductor the lower deck, making it easier to access a door to operate the train doors from when approaching stations, thereby somewhat combating the big disadvantage of the true bi-levels.


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## lrdc9_metroplitan_sub (Sep 19, 2008)

I ride the Frederick branch quite a bit. The single level cars actualy are not TOO old and are by far holding up the best in the system. But you've got to ride the 3:50 Frederick Train and meet Russel. He's great and the stroy goes, if you ask, he will let you blow the horn in the cab car. ( I did it once around last christmas. It's real fun!). When you ride the train going North/West ride on the left side of the train. Much more scenic views.


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## sechs (Sep 20, 2008)

zoltan said:


> Now that is an odd system I wouldn't have imagined; that there are clips for holding the tickets of upper deck passengers!


Frankly, it is an odd system, and when Caltrain used this, it caused a lot of confusion (after, what, 50 years?) when people would switch seats and not take their seat checks, or when people got off at stops earlier than the end of their zone. They solved this and freed up a lot of conductor time by going to proof-of-payment.

I don't understand why other rail systems don't move away from actual ticket-taking.


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## sechs (Sep 20, 2008)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> I ride a Caltrain round trip two to three times a week, and I am 99% sure that all their seats are fixed and that none of the upper level seats face sideways. Except for a pair of facing seats on the lower level adjacent to the center car entrance, all seats face toward the door.


I find some of Metra's seat arrangements to be a bit bizarre -- particularly the seats facing in, toward the aisle.

I did like the fact that they had flippable seat backs on some lines, so that everyone can face forward. However, I imagine that's a nicety that takes some time and money to maintain.


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## AlanB (Sep 20, 2008)

zoltan said:


> Guest_George Harris_* said:
> 
> 
> > Checking tickets is much easier in the gallery as all can be checked on the same pass through the car, while the bi-level requires the the conductor to make two passes through each car plus having to go up and down the steps, again in every car.
> ...


Yes, in most cases (unless the conductor is training the AC to be a conductor), he/she will be responsible for dispatching the train from the station stop. However, it's quite common to assign the AC to open/close the doors at station stops. Even if the AC isn't opening the doors, he/she is still required to come down to an open door and assist the conductor in ensuring that everyone has gotten on and off the train safely.

Finally, even the cars with low level entrances in the middle still require one to come to a mid-level point to pass into the next car. And since they need to collect tickets from every car, they'll both still be going up and down the stairs of every car, so nothing gained by assigning the AC to the upper level.

By the way many train actually have more than one AC in the mix, so that would further complicate things is they were assigned levels.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Sep 20, 2008)

I've never had a chance to ride in a gallery car.

Those photos suggest that getting from the aisle into a seat is awkward; is tha the case?

Is there a complete list somewhere of which commuter railroads use gallery cars, vs which use cars with aisles on two levels?


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## AlanB (Sep 20, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Those photos suggest that getting from the aisle into a seat is awkward; is tha the case?


Not at all, it's quite easy. Biggest problem might be if one was particularly tall, in which case you'd have to watch your head. But otherwise it's not hard to get in at all. In that picture, everyone's feet are where the aisle is. We're all just sitting sideways to better chat with one another.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Sep 20, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Not at all, it's quite easy. Biggest problem might be if one was particularly tall, in which case you'd have to watch your head. But otherwise it's not hard to get in at all. In that picture, everyone's feet are where the aisle is. We're all just sitting sideways to better chat with one another.


Oh, OK. Somehow I'd gotten the impression from the photo that one had to climb over the railing to get to the center aisle in the lower level in order to get to an upper level seat.

So the actual arrangement is that the aisle at the very center of the car is for the lower level (is it higher than the floor in front of the lower level seats?), with two aisles on the upper level, and the lower level uses 4/5 or so of the width of the car for seats, and the upper level only about 2/5 of the width of the car for seats?


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## zoltan (Sep 20, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Yes, in most cases (unless the conductor is training the AC to be a conductor), he/she will be responsible for dispatching the train from the station stop. However, it's quite common to assign the AC to open/close the doors at station stops. Even if the AC isn't opening the doors, he/she is still required to come down to an open door and assist the conductor in ensuring that everyone has gotten on and off the train safely.


Ah, I see. I suppose this goes a way to explaining the lack of platform staff at some stations where in Britain, at a station with equivalent levels of usage, there probably would be. In Britain, with our high platforms, most trains lack an AC at all.

That said, I do notice some going around to the American idea on my local line in the Leeds suburbs, where most drains do have an AC now, and it means that most passengers are ticketed on arrival at Leeds City, whereas the vast majority were not when one conductor alone had four minutes to issue tickets to all those boarding at the final station, and six minutes for the one before.

Anyway, the result of this is that I hadn't realised the AC was required at high platforms, or low platforms on low floor trains, though I had seen the MARC Brunswick Line's assistant conductors were crucial, as every station other than Union Station and Monocacy is a low platform, and with two conductors, boarding and alighting could be through two doors instead of one.


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## Guest_George Harris_* (Sep 20, 2008)

Zoltan: Remember, we do not have to contend with the very tiny British clearance constraints. The gallery cars are 15'-11" = 4851 mm high and 10-0" = 3048 mm wide. This gives us a lot more room to play around in. (The Suerliner cars are a little taller than these, I believe 16'-3" = 4953 mm high.)

Also, platform barriers with ticket checking UK style simply do not exist here. In fact, for the Caltrain system, only the end point stations have any staff at all. All others are simiply open platforms with ticket machines and validators for the 10 ride tickets. They do have small changable message signs that in default mode gives you the time.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Sep 20, 2008)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> They do have small changable message signs that in default mode gives you the time.


It would be really nice if the MBTA could figure out how to get their signs to display the time when they don't have any other information to display.


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## zoltan (Sep 21, 2008)

Guest_George Harris_* said:


> Zoltan: Remember, we do not have to contend with the very tiny British clearance constraints.


Indeed; hence even where double deck trains in Europe exist, they are of the sunken bottom deck layout of MBTA's bi-levels, rather than the standard car with a top deck stuck on top that is the gallery cars. I think the height American railroads can get away with is brilliant!



Guest_George Harris_* said:


> Also, platform barriers with ticket checking UK style simply do not exist here.


I wish I'd known this when having six minutes to get from Union station metro to the last MARC train to Frederick, and I would have been panicking less about finding somewhere to buy tickets when I got there! As it was, just as I was getting off the metro, I approached a woman to ask about where I could get tickets, and she explained the lack of barriers to me, and I was extremely grateful. I'm sure I would have missed it otherwise, as I later found Quick-Trak machines don't take British debit cards. I then only paid an insignificant $3 extra to buy on the train (I'm pretty sure the conductor pocketed my $10 fare, but fair game to him).



Guest_George Harris_* said:


> In fact, for the Caltrain system, only the end point stations have any staff at all. All others are simiply open platforms with ticket machines and validators for the 10 ride tickets. They do have small changable message signs that in default mode gives you the time.


This is entirely the same for most British stations, only most unstaffed stations lack even ticket machines, so the poor single conductor has to sell a lot of tickets on board as well. Hence on the well-patronised inner city stretch of my local line, Assistant Conductors do join the train to get everyone's tickets sold by the time we arrive at the barrier-ed Leeds City station.

Also, as a side point, you mention 10-ride tickets, and I wish they had those in Britain, for people like me who don't need to travel quite every day. However, they would be very complicated to administer as many of the users of my local station receive discounts with 16-25 railcards, or other types of railcard.


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## AlanB (Sep 21, 2008)

zoltan said:


> I wish I'd known this when having six minutes to get from Union station metro to the last MARC train to Frederick, and I would have been panicking less about finding somewhere to buy tickets when I got there! As it was, just as I was getting off the metro, I approached a woman to ask about where I could get tickets, and she explained the lack of barriers to me, and I was extremely grateful. I'm sure I would have missed it otherwise, as I later found Quick-Trak machines don't take British debit cards. I then only paid an insignificant $3 extra to buy on the train (I'm pretty sure the conductor pocketed my $10 fare, but fair game to him).


The conductor should have given you a paper receipt in which he/she punched out the fare paid, origin and destination, and perhaps even the date. That receipt is a number controlled two-part receipt. You get one copy to prove that you paid and to act as your receipt. The conductor must turn in the other part, along with the cash. If he/she looses a receipt or is short cash, they've got a big problem.


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## frj1983 (Sep 24, 2008)

sechs said:


> zoltan said:
> 
> 
> > Now that is an odd system I wouldn't have imagined; that there are clips for holding the tickets of upper deck passengers!
> ...


I'm a little late to the party here, but I'm venturing a guess that 65% of all Metra riders have Monthly Passes...we just show the Conductor (so it is proof of payment). However the Monthly Pass is not good for everyone. The passenger might be riding for only a week or even a day, so weekly's or daily's are available. And the Metra Conductors are pretty fast and efficient at getting through the whole train in a minimum amount of time. It seems to work fine here in Chicagoland.

And Zoltan I do love stting up in the Gallery, the view out the windows is marvelous...unless of course the window is dirty or scratched!


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## gswager (Sep 24, 2008)

Or too green!


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## sechs (Sep 25, 2008)

frj1983 said:


> And the Metra Conductors are pretty fast and efficient at getting through the whole train in a minimum amount of time. It seems to work fine here in Chicagoland.


Imagine if the conductors could actually spend their time taking care of the train, rather than messing around with tickets.

Caltrain has been able to reduce the number of conductors on a train. Rarely do I even see five total employees (conductors and fare inspectors) on a train; that used to be the minimum during commute hours, when the vast majority of riders have passes.


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