# Steam Excursions in Mojave Announced



## The Davy Crockett (Sep 21, 2013)

From this press release from Cadiz Inc. on September 19, 2013:



> CADIZ, CA – Today Cadiz Inc. [NASDAQ:CDZI] (“Cadiz”, the “Company”) is pleased to announce that it has entered into a new trackage rights agreement (“Agreement”) with the Arizona & California Railroad Company (“ARZC”) that will facilitate the development of regularly scheduled steam train excursions through the celebrated Mojave Desert between Cadiz, California and Parker, Arizona, which would be one of the longest steam train excursion routes in the United States. The proposed new steam train operation, named the Cadiz Southeastern Railway (“CSER”), will be powered by water made available from the Cadiz Valley Water Conservation, Recovery & Storage Project (“Cadiz Water Project”) and, following the completion of additional permitting, will also feature a new museum and cultural center at the Cadiz Ranch property dedicated to the promotion of local desert and railroad history.



and:



> The CSER will operate on existing tracks along an 85-mile portion of the ARZC between Parker, Arizona and Cadiz, California with water stops in desert locales of Milligan, Chubbuck, Rice and Vidal. This Mojave Desert Route, which is located just off historic Route-66, provides sweeping views of the vast desert wilderness, mountainous terrain and the Colorado River.



What equipment will they use?



> The CSER operation will employ historic steam locomotives and vintage passenger railcars that will be modernized to incorporate current environmental and mechanical technologies. As CSER prepares its facilities and equipment, it intends to work with the San Bernardino Railroad Historical Society, which maintains a 1927-built steam locomotive, Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe number 3751, to operate limited runs of the 3751 on the route.


I wonder if foam be reclaimed? :blink:

This might be worth investigating.


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## Anderson (Sep 21, 2013)

Interesting. Serious question: Does the SWC pass through Cadiz? Also, looking up the railroad company...it's a shame they couldn't put together an LA-Phoenix excursion train or anchor such a service in one of those cities.


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2013)

I really don't know. I lived in that area from 1994 to 2000, and drove thru that area at least once a month. I never even saw any railroad tracks in the area around Parker!

For those of you not familiar with the area, Parker is on the Colorado River on the border of Arizona and California, about 30-40 miles south of Needles and south of Lake Havasu City ("London Bridge").


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 21, 2013)

In looking at Google maps it looks to me like they both pass through Needles, and the SWC passing through Cadiz does look like a distinct possibility. Parker, I think not for the SWC.


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## the_traveler (Sep 21, 2013)

I really wish them luck with this operation! Even foamers may find their foam dried up by the heat.

That portion of the Mojave daytime temperatures on a "cool" day in summer is only 110°!  And on a "cold" day in the summer, it may get down all the way below 100°! 

I remember many a night waiting for the SWC to come thru Needles and it was "only" 95°-100°. And the SWC goes thru NDL between 1:30-3:00 *AM*!


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## Alice (Sep 21, 2013)

When 3751 went to the Grand Canyon last year, it stopped for service at Cadiz. Whooz has some photos/videos somewhere. As I recall, there was a whole lot of 10mph running in the vicinity on account of high temps, but they are never high speed even when cooler. The SWC doesn't take those tracks.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 23, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> I really don't know. I lived in that area from 1994 to 2000, and drove thru that area at least once a month. I never even saw any railroad tracks in the area around Parker!


Really?

The Arizona and California Railroad has been there since 1907, was once a Santa Fe sub, and is currently a Genesee & Wyoming property. Parker is its headquarters, about the midpoint of its trackage, which runs from Cadiz, CA to Wickenburg, AZ (trackage rights to Phoenix). Its offices and yard at Parker sit right on the town's main drag, and there's an impressive trestle over the adjacent Colorado River (right beside the highway bridge); both hard to miss.







​​Southeast of Parker the railroad sits more or less parallel to route 72 for about 40 miles - plainly visible - until it turns away toward Wickenburg. Didn't see anything, huh? Hmmmmm.

Here's Santa Fe 4-8-4 No. 3751 and its Grand Canyon excursion train on a BNSF siding at Cadiz. After watering and servicing the train was backed to a junction and began crawling across the desert over Arizona and California rails. The water came from the white outbuilding in front of the locomotive. Cadiz Inc. is mostly about grabbing water from the desert aquifer and profiting from pumping it in a manner that would be an environmental disaster for the living desert's flora, fauna, residents, and businesses. The steam excursion happy talk is a dodge; lipstick on the pig.



May 14,2012 (all WhoozPhotos).​


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 23, 2013)

WhoozOn1st said:


> Cadiz Inc. is mostly about grabbing water from the desert aquifer and profiting from pumping it in a manner that would be an environmental disaster for the living desert's flora, fauna, residents, and businesses. The steam excursion happy talk is a dodge; lipstick on the pig.


So what else is new? The history of the West since the arrival of Europeans, and to an extent even before, has been all about resource grabbing.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 25, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> The history of the West since the arrival of Europeans, and to an extent even before, has been all about resource grabbing.


And the primary resource to be grabbed (and perpetually fought over) in California is water.

The key thing here is that there's not gonna be any desert steam excursion train. Cadiz Inc. is using the prospect of one in an attempt to evade the federal requirement for environmental assessments as part of the permitting process for its water mining scheme.

If for some reason the dodge is successful, once the permits are in hand, and water mining gets underway, the steam train plan will evaporate.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 25, 2013)

WhoozOn1st said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > The history of the West since the arrival of Europeans, and to an extent even before, has been all about resource grabbing.
> ...


Only time will tell.

Actually running it would be good P.R. I'd put my money on this 'desert train' actually happening better than DesertExpress XpressWest. Besides, whille government in CA. isn't the most logical or efficient burreaucracy in the world, I can't see Cadiz getting away with wreaking wholesale ecological disaster under the guise of getting water for a steam engine... ...but then again, this is CA we are talking about, so only time will tell.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 25, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> I can't see Cadiz getting away with wreaking wholesale ecological disaster under the guise of getting water for a steam engine...


The steam train gambit is just one facet of a full-on legal offensive being waged by Cadiz Inc., and merely the latest in a series of attempts to avoid federal review of its proposed water mining project.

In any case, those who don't believe in well-financed and -connected corporations getting away with environmental murder in California are invariably (perhaps blissfully) unaware of the history of the water wars in this state.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 25, 2013)

WhoozOn1st said:


> The Davy Crockett said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see Cadiz getting away with wreaking wholesale ecological disaster under the guise of getting water for a steam engine...
> ...


Water wars In CA?

Like Hetch Hetchy, Owens Valley, Mono Lake, Salton Sea, The Colorado River going across the border to Mexico in little more than a garden hose to meet the letter, but not the spirit of the Treaty with Mexico? The problems in the Central Valley due to salination?The changes to the ecology of arid areas due to the pumping of aquifiers? Yep blissfully unaware, thats me.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 25, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Like Hetch Hetchy, Owens Valley, Mono Lake, Salton Sea, The Colorado River going across the border to Mexico in little more than a garden hose to meet the letter, but not the spirit of the Treaty with Mexico? The problems in the Central Valley due to salination?The changes to the ecology of arid areas due to the pumping of aquifiers? Yep blissfully unaware, thats me.


Then why the disbelief/denial that this cheesy dodge could not only succeed, but have serious and widespread negative environmental impact?

"I can't see Cadiz getting away with wreaking wholesale ecological disaster under the guise of getting water for a steam engine..."

Faith that Cadiz Inc. in a fine corporate citizen and above reproach?


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2013)

I think it's more a bit of disbelief that they could pull off the dodge, dump plans _outright_, and then not get sued for it. My guess is that they'd shove together one or two "excursions" that would borrow on SP's advertising department and use automats from the _Sunset_, call it a failure, and move on. For a net of a day or two of car rentals and with a steam loco up front that probably only runs for part of the trip, they'd get their water.


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## The Davy Crockett (Sep 25, 2013)

I see Cadiz using the excursions more as a 'red herring' in winnning local support for their plans. It is being touted as good for the local economies of some pretty economically depressed areas. Think that won't happen? Look at 'mountain top removal' coal mining in WV. Short term gain, long term consequences. The excursion train even provides 'cover' for local elected officials who back it. Cadiz would be well served to move the excursion plan forward as long as they are on course to be able to extract water, and if they win approval, afterwards. Look at AAF in FL with what just happened with crossing gates, etc. at 92(?) at-grade crossings that local governments were recently shocked to learn that they would need to pay for the improvements to that are required for AAF trains. AAF, being 'in partnership' (their term, IIRC) with communities that have no nearby stations. AAF wisely squelched what would have been very bad P.R. and a political 'hot potato' by rapidly stepping up to the plate and saying that they would pay those costs - and not local taxpayers - but that the local governments will have to pay for maintenance once those improvements are made. Will maintenance cost more than the status que? I would think yes, but those costs will not generate bad P.R. and will be much more spread out than the costs of improving those crossings in the next year or so.

And for a clarification, I personally don't believe that DesertExpress ExpressWest is ever going to happen. I think their business model is just too flawed - unless they get huge government subsidies. They won't get them from CA, and I don't see the $ coming from the Feds, so unless NV wants to jump in head first...


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