# M-8 debut in peril, High failure rate on old M2 fleet



## Dutchrailnut (Jan 22, 2011)

> STAMFORD -- A prospective debut date of the New Haven Line's long-awaited M-8 rail cars remains hazy as engineers continue work to correct computer glitches that have prevented the new trains from entering public service, the state's public transportation chief said Wednesday night.
> While an earlier software problem that caused the cars to disrupt railway signal systems has been fixed, state Department of Transportation Public Transportation Bureau Chief James Redeker told the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council Wednesday various other software issues have come up that have put off a series of mileage tests for the first eight pilot cars.


Read more: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Debut-date-for-new-M-8-rail-cars-uncertain-966783.php#ixzz1BiyKUDJg


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## Acela150 (Jan 22, 2011)

Glad to know that Septa isn't the only one having software issues with their new railcars! :lol: At least Metro-North is getting cars delivered! Unlike Septa which was running pilot cars for months and finally took in production cars before the new year. So the pilot cars haven't been running for the past 3 months so they can run them with the new production cars. They are scheduled to be out of the public eye at least until the 1st of the month. It's unknown when the new three will make their debut.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Jan 23, 2011)

LOL , i don't understand why is it taking this long to do things.... and what is up with this 4,000 mile test , why not make it 1,000 miles.....sheesh. Watch when NJT replaces the Arrows , we will get everything right...


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 23, 2011)

Nexis4Jersey said:


> LOL , i don't understand why is it taking this long to do things.... and what is up with this 4,000 mile test , why not make it 1,000 miles.....sheesh. Watch when NJT replaces the Arrows , we will get everything right...


When NJT replaces the Arrows, 5-10 years from now, it will be with ALP46Bs and MLVs.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Jan 24, 2011)

I heard new EMU's were in the works , MLVS cannot replace all the Arrow cars and there expensive to run offpeak...


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## AlanB (Jan 24, 2011)

Nexis4Jersey said:


> LOL , i don't understand why is it taking this long to do things.... and what is up with this 4,000 mile test , why not make it 1,000 miles.....sheesh. Watch when NJT replaces the Arrows , we will get everything right...


All transit agencies have similar tests, although the number of miles may vary a bit from agency to agency. Even the MTA does this with subway cars, that you have to run X miles without a single failure before you consider the cars acceptable and full production can gear up. This is done in part to help prevent buying 300 very expensive rail cars that are lemons.

And I wouldn't bet on NJT getting things right. When they first brought the new Comet V's online they had mega problems with those cars and how the worked with the rest of the Comet fleet.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 24, 2011)

Nexis4Jersey said:


> I heard new EMU's were in the works , MLVS cannot replace all the Arrow cars and there expensive to run offpeak...


They have talked about new EMUs but my understanding is that Weinstein is not in favor of them, nor is Simpson. For the same reason that Warrington wasn't in favor of them. MLVs can replace Arrows to NJTs level of acceptable on every line but the Princeton Dinky which will eventually be converted to a bus like it should have been 20 years ago.

To your point of view and my point of view, obviously shorter Arrow trains off peak make more financial sense to operate than a 10-car or 2-car long MLV train. However! That is not the way NJT thinks. If NJT was thinking properly, they would be switching cars off of trains at their yards to operate shorter trains off peak rather than running an 8 car long MLV train with 2 cars or 1 car open thus pointlessly wearing out equipment for no good reason.

NJT sees the FRA's requirement to treat MU cars as locomotives for inspection purposes as an unbearable burden. So they don't bear it. This is why the Arrow IIIs are the oldest cars in the fleet, and why 70 of them are being retired in short order. They will be used on the Gladstone branch and possibly some Trenton Express trains and thats it. Naturally, using them on Trenton Express trains is the biggest, dumbest waste of the equipment possible. Express is where locomotive hauled equipment is more useful than on the hilly, highly local operation found on the M&E.

In addition, NJ Transits insistence with their Unions is that a train, regardless of its size, requires three crew members at minimum- an engineer, a conductor, and a brake man. Their insistence on this silliness is why the Princeton Dinky is such a gigantic waste of money. Operated by a motorman alone with POP fare strategies, it would be as financially sensible as any other light rail operation. But when you need three crew members to operate 1 car long, no locomotive train the 3 miles from Princeton Junction to Princeton, it becomes financially ludicrous.

The Arrows should be able to operate with 3 cars and two crew members. Then they might be financially sensible enough to justify their operation over running a longer, closed car train set.

Arrow IVs or MLVMUs might happen. Anything is possible but skiing through revolving doors. But as I stand here today and watch management, probably with more diligence and realism than you, I say they aren't going to happen until NJT becomes a sensibly operated organization, which at the current pace will come on the day a snowball survives 48 hours in hell.


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## Nexis4Jersey (Jan 24, 2011)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Nexis4Jersey said:
> 
> 
> > I heard new EMU's were in the works , MLVS cannot replace all the Arrow cars and there expensive to run offpeak...
> ...


oh ic , the dinky will be converted to a Streetcar / Light Rail hybrid , the locos fought hard against the bus plan. When do you think all the lines will have MLV's?


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 24, 2011)

Nexis4Jersey said:


> oh ic , the dinky will be converted to a Streetcar / Light Rail hybrid , the locos fought hard against the bus plan. When do you think all the lines will have MLV's?


The locos fought hard against the 50% increase in off peak fares. They happened anyway. As for when the Arrows will be retired, who knows? 170 of them are being "refurbished", but at the minimum amount per car specified, I'd say they're replacing the seat cushions.


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