# My trip on the Southwest Chief



## mercedeslove (Mar 10, 2008)

So this is my first time doing one of these things...so...

also I am trying to figure out a place to upload all my photos so people can see. I was thinking flickr but I don't know. I have them on my facebook for now.

Let’s get out of “Dodge” because it looks like we are not in Kansas any more Toto…

So we are just pulling out of the Lamar Colorado station, we left Chicago yesterday at 3:15 p.m. The ride was well interesting to say the least. The gentleman ahead of me was three sheets to the wind. Cursing up a storm, yelling at someone on his phone. We weren’t even near the fourth stop and this man was working on his eighth, yes folks that is right eighth beer. According to the person he was talking to on the phone and sharing it so wonderfully, he quote and quote did not need to go to rehab because he did not have a drinking problem. Denial is not just a river in Egypt people. When we pulled into Galesburg he was removed from the train by Galesburg’s finest. Oh yeah and according to him I am ***** for telling on him. Whatever, I have been called a lot worse.

It was around 11 p.m when I think I shut down my computer and the episode of Third Watch. I was watching and called it a night. It took a while for me to find my “happy place” but once I did I was out like a light. I woke up just as we pulled into Garden City, KS. I think I have had a few dreams that started out like that. Waking up dazed and confused, not knowing what city I was in.

I then headed down to the dining car where I had some yummy French toast and chatted with some very nice people. However, during breakfast we were on a really rough set of tracks and it made it hard to try and drink my coffee, but I guess that is half the adventure.

The scenery so far has been AMAZING and I can’t wait until we hit the mountains, and see what they have to offer. This trip was a really great idea, despite the drunk in coach I am having a great time, and tomorrow at this time I will be in LA.

The train snakes it’s way through the landscape of America, and I realize just how beautiful this country is and how amazing it is. The Pueblo’s in New Mexico are so adorable and I want one. Yes I do.

*~*~*~*

I am now in LA, we pulled in about 8 a.m. I woke up in Riverside I believe and had fallen asleep just shortly after we pulled out of Flagstaff. For a while I sat next to an older man, in his 80’s. He told me all about his wife who recently passed away, his home in Colorado, when he was in the Navy, and the rest of his family. It was really interesting hearing his stories and about his life. It’s things like this that make this trip even better.

The crew was awesome in the train. They were very nice and very helpful. I am looking forward to my return trip on the Texas Eagle.

The only bad part, besides the drunk was last night. There was a family travleing with their infant son, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest. Either way it wouldn't stop making noise. You could hear the thing from the back of the car. It was so annoying. This was at like 2am too and I had ear plugs on. I wanted to scream. Seriously who thinks this is cute or adorable. Personally I think bringing it on board was a bad idea.


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## Sam Damon (Mar 10, 2008)

mercedeslove said:


> So this is my first time doing one of these things...so...
> also I am trying to figure out a place to upload all my photos so people can see. I was thinking flickr but I don't know. I have them on my facebook for now.


First, thanks for letting us know how your trip is going. It's a way for us to monitor Amtrak's "health".  Posting pictures on Flickr's great. I haven't gotten around to putzing much with other social websites. Someone else's mileage may vary.



> Let’s get out of “Dodge” because it looks like we are not in Kansas any more Toto…So we are just pulling out of the Lamar Colorado station, we left Chicago yesterday at 3:15 p.m. The ride was well interesting to say the least. The gentleman ahead of me was three sheets to the wind. Cursing up a storm, yelling at someone on his phone. We weren’t even near the fourth stop and this man was working on his eighth, yes folks that is right eighth beer. According to the person he was talking to on the phone and sharing it so wonderfully, he quote and quote did not need to go to rehab because he did not have a drinking problem. Denial is not just a river in Egypt people. When we pulled into Galesburg he was removed from the train by Galesburg’s finest. Oh yeah and according to him I am ***** for telling on him. Whatever, I have been called a lot worse.


That's the thing about Amtrak; if you are truly obnoxious, you will get thrown off the train. For one conductor's view on such things (and how patient some can be), pay a visit to Railroad Dave's website.



> The only bad part, besides the drunk was last night. There was a family travleing with their infant son, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest. Either way it wouldn't stop making noise. You could hear the thing from the back of the car. It was so annoying. This was at like 2am too and I had ear plugs on. I wanted to scream. Seriously who thinks this is cute or adorable. Personally I think bringing it on board was a bad idea.


Welcome to traveling on Amtrak by coach. <_< These things will happen on a train trip. People will bring their infants. It's their train too, after all. Having said that, though, IMO the mom probably should have asked her pediatrician about giving her kid a small dose of children's Benadryl before departure. If her pediatrician would have okayed it, the drug would have most likely made the kid sleep through the trip, making things easier on mom, kid, and you.

(I am not a medical professional, so check with your doctor before following that bit of advice with your own kid, gentle reader.)


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 10, 2008)

There are a variety of medications that are mild sleep inducers that are useful for that purpose. Personally, if you, as a parent, can't get your child to shut its trap at improper times you really shouldn't bring them on a train trip. Children can be cute, enjoyable, and a pleasure to share a trip with. They can also be Satan's curse. Were I a parent, and I couldn't get my child to shut its mouth, I'd take it to the lounge or dining car, depending on which was unoccupied. Or on a single level car, I'd take it into the vestibule until I could quiet it down. It is no more appropriate as a parent to continue letting your child scream its head off at 2 in the morning than for a teenager to leave his boombox on.

Anyway, we've covered that territory a while ago.

Glad you're having fun, Mercedes.


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## mercedeslove (Mar 10, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> There are a variety of medications that are mild sleep inducers that are useful for that purpose. Personally, if you, as a parent, can't get your child to shut its trap at improper times you really shouldn't bring them on a train trip. Children can be cute, enjoyable, and a pleasure to share a trip with. They can also be Satan's curse. Were I a parent, and I couldn't get my child to shut its mouth, I'd take it to the lounge or dining car, depending on which was unoccupied. Or on a single level car, I'd take it into the vestibule until I could quiet it down. It is no more appropriate as a parent to continue letting your child scream its head off at 2 in the morning than for a teenager to leave his boombox on.
> Anyway, we've covered that territory a while ago.
> 
> Glad you're having fun, Mercedes.


i don't know why the parents didn't try something to hush the child up. They might be use to it, but I don't think everyone else on the train is or was. I know I wasn't.

There were other children on the train as well, and none of them behaved this way.

Though there was a soccer team on the train and I guess they had an issues with them in the sight seeing car, no idea if this is true or not.

There was a mother and her son heading to Cali from Chi with me. He was a great kid. 10 years old and smart as a whip.


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## mercedeslove (Mar 10, 2008)

Sam Damon said:


> mercedeslove said:
> 
> 
> > So this is my first time doing one of these things...so...
> ...


I am slowly uploading picture right now.

as for the drunk we were just past Napervillie and he was on his 6th beer. there was no way I was going to put him with him acting that way. Even the conductor agreed with me that he probably would only get worse. I guess he was allowed to catch the train the next day, if he was sober. I kind of felt bad for the guy, from what he saying in his loud phone conversations he wasn't going back to rehab because he didn't have a drinking problem. I was thinking. 'ok buddy'


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## Dan O (Mar 11, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> There are a variety of medications that are mild sleep inducers that are useful for that purpose. Personally, if you, as a parent, can't get your child to shut its trap at improper times you really shouldn't bring them on a train trip.


Let me guess..you don't have children? Sometimes there is little you can do w/ a small baby. And most likely the change in schedule/routine did not help settle the baby down much. My kids have only gone off inconsolably a couple times each and they were always at home. SO it was pretty rare and it would be hard to know if/when it may happen. Seemed like most times it was a combination of things--hungry/upset routine/etc. And not always that easy to figure out exactly what it is/was.



> Children can be cute, enjoyable, and a pleasure to share a trip with. They can also be Satan's curse.


I think many ages can fit that description.



> Were I a parent, and I couldn't get my child to shut its mouth, I'd take it to the lounge or dining car, depending on which was unoccupied. Or on a single level car, I'd take it into the vestibule until I could quiet it down.


Sounds like a good idea.



> It is no more appropriate as a parent to continue letting your child scream its head off at 2 in the morning than for a teenager to leave his boombox on.


Although, sometimes circumstances w/ a baby are difficult to overcome. I don't know the circumstances on the train but perhaps the mother had other little children she had to watch. I won't preach to you but parenting kids is not always as simple as it looks.



> Anyway, we've covered that territory a while ago.
> Glad you're having fun, Mercedes.


I am covering the same tracks, although from LA to Chicago and back on the Southwest Chief.

DanO

PS Not excusing parents who do not make an effort to quiet their children.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 12, 2008)

I was referring to the territory of discussion of the merits of parenting, particularly in public places, especially Amtrak trains. We had a huge thread on it.

I do not have children, and doubt I ever will. I don't have the patience, know I don't have the patience, and don't want to inflict my violent and sensitive temper on a child of my own creation (or anyone else who doesn't really deserve to have it inflicted thereto).


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## PRR 60 (Mar 12, 2008)

mercedeslove said:


> ...The only bad part, besides the drunk was last night. There was a family travleing with their infant son, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest. Either way *it *wouldn't stop making noise. You could hear *the thing *from the back of the car. *It* was so annoying. This was at like 2am too and I had ear plugs on. I wanted to scream. Seriously who thinks this is cute or adorable. Personally I think bringing *it *on board was a bad idea.


First, an infant child is a person: a human being. He is not an it or a thing. I think that speaks volumes of your tolerance level and the degree to which the problem is yours and not the parents.

Some children that age are perfect, some are not. Sometimes the behavior of babies it is under the control of the parents, and sometimes it is not. But what is under your control is your choice of transportation and accommodations. You chose to travel Amtrak and you chose to ride in coach. As such, you exposed yourself to the travelling public for an extended period of time. That is all of them, quiet and loud, young and old, sober and drunk. Amtrak makes no promise that you will have peace and quiet or that you will have riding companions that exclusively meet your high standards. In Amtrak coach, you have no expectation of privacy and solitude, and believing that you do will simply make matters worse.

Here's the solution to keep you away from babies while traveling. Next time ante-up for a sleeper, fly, or drive yourself. The sleeper has a door that closes and seals you away from the unwashed masses and smelly, screaming babies. The plane will limit your exposure to four hours. Your car is your castle and you can limit access as you see fit. But if you want to ride long distance coach on Amtrak, lighten-up. Or take your own medication and sleep the trip away yourself.


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## mercedeslove (Mar 12, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> mercedeslove said:
> 
> 
> > ...The only bad part, besides the drunk was last night. There was a family travleing with their infant son, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest. Either way *it *wouldn't stop making noise. You could hear *the thing *from the back of the car. *It* was so annoying. This was at like 2am too and I had ear plugs on. I wanted to scream. Seriously who thinks this is cute or adorable. Personally I think bringing *it *on board was a bad idea.
> ...


That's your opinion, mine is different. I will call it what I want to call it. Especially when I couldn't tell what sex it was.



PRR 60 said:


> Some children that age are perfect, some are not. Sometimes the behavior of babies it is under the control of the parents, and sometimes it is not. But what is under your control is your choice of transportation and accommodations. You chose to travel Amtrak and you chose to ride in coach. As such, you exposed yourself to the travelling public for an extended period of time. That is all of them, quiet and loud, young and old, sober and drunk. Amtrak makes no promise that you will have peace and quiet or that you will have riding companions that exclusively meet your high standards. In Amtrak coach, you have no expectation of privacy and solitude, and believing that you do will simply make matters worse.


Since the train is a public place the parents should be respectful and think of the public around them. Stop thinking that because they have children the world revolves around them and should bend over backwards for them. Life doesn't work that way. Sorry. I shouldn't have to change my planes/life/way of living/and everything else because of people who have children and don't know how to parent them. If you are a parent that is your job keep you kid under control. If you can't do that, then perhaps you shouldn't have children. I mean people don't get hired for jobs they are not qualified to do? Do they?



PRR 60 said:


> Here's the solution to keep you away from babies while traveling. Next time ante-up for a sleeper, fly, or drive yourself. The sleeper has a door that closes and seals you away from the unwashed masses and smelly, screaming babies. The plane will limit your exposure to four hours. Your car is your castle and you can limit access as you see fit. But if you want to ride long distance coach on Amtrak, lighten-up. Or take your own medication and sleep the trip away yourself.


AGAIN PARENTS NEED TO DO THEIR JOB AND CONTROL THEIR CHILDREN. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Stop thinking that they have special privileges because they have children. Life doesn't work that way. The rest of the sane world shouldn't have to be inconvenienced by the screaming babble a child makes, and the failure of it's parents to keep it under control. This goes for anywhere in public, but more so in an enclosed tight area such as a train.

It's amazing we life in a country where something as simple as fishing you need a license for, but to be a parent any moron can be one. So they bring kids into this world, they kids are horrible annoying monsters and the rest of the unfortunate (spelling?) world is stuck dealing with them.

If there is anyone who should be forced to drive or make the trip faster, by taking a plane. it's people with small children. or they should get the sleeper. They should be the ones who have to do this in order not to annoy people. Again people shouldn't have to bend over backwards for them. They weren't the ones who have/had children that are annoying brats with no sense of respect for everyone around them.


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## greatcats (Mar 12, 2008)

Mercedes - I enjoyed your tongue in cheek review. Good for you for speaking up! I should be on the SWC in May, if my boss relents and will let me have the two weeks vacation I requested.(!)


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## PRR 60 (Mar 12, 2008)

mercedeslove said:


> There was a family travleing with *their infant son*, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest.





mercedeslove said:


> That's your opinion, mine is different. I will call it what I want to call it. *Especially when I couldn't tell what sex it was.*


Sounds like you thought the baby was a boy two days ago? Interesting.

Fact: Families with kids are going to ride trains. As much as you might like to, you cannot stop them. Fact: Some of those kids will act up, particularly over the course of a multi-day trip. It does not matter why or whose fault it is, it will happen. You may not like it. I may not like it. Makes no difference. That's the way it is.

If you chose to ride coach on Amtrak, you will be riding with kids. If you are then annoyed by them when they act up, that was entirely predictable. Having noise and kids next to you or behind you or in front of you is a fact of life for coach travel. If you ride Amtrak in coach, you risk that problem every single time. You can wish, hope or pray that this was not true, but it is. You could hope that people would not bring kids on a train or that Amtrak would ban kids from trains, but it ain't gonna happen. The bottom line: if you don't want to risk spending a night with noisy kids (and you obviously don't), don't ride Amtrak in coach. The world is not going to change because you don't like it.

By the way, if you have a clue how to reason with a child at age 10 months, write a book. You will make a fortune.


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## Shotgun7 (Mar 12, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> mercedeslove said:
> 
> 
> > There was a family travleing with *their infant son*, maybe 1yrs old at the oldest.
> ...


PRR 60, I'm sorry... I didn't have enough respect for your post to read the whole thing but here's a quick thought to help save this discussion from falling into the trap that I've noticed posters like you tend to put them in...

I don't know what MercedesLove's first name is but whatever it is, her post was her opinion that's obviously shared by many other people. However disgusted or offended you might be by it, I'm pretty sure that there's no way in hell that some random angry guy is going to change the state of mind of somebody who's just trying to tell what happened on her awesome trip. FACT: Babies are very oftentimes a pain in the ass for many people around, whether it's their fault or not. And I may not be a parent, but I got a 4 year old sister and let me say that even though she's related to me, she's very often, yes, a pain in my ass. When she screams in public, I've got the sense to take her outside for a while.

By the way, would somebody please post something that doesn't have to do with this retarted argument now??!


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## AlanB (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm locking this topic temporarily to allow everyone some time to cool down. I don't mind discussion, but I'm not going to let things sink to the level that they are now headed for. Once the topic has been reopened, if things don't remain civil, then the topic will be closed permenantly.


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## AlanB (Mar 13, 2008)

First let me start by saying that we strive very hard to let everyone put forth their own views on anything concerning trains and Amtrak. But we do insist on people keeping things respectful towards each other.

Next I want to remind everyone that we are all, except for Mercedes, basing our comments on something that we did not observe.

Now for a few gentle spankings as it were.

Mercedes, I’m not a parent but I am an uncle. Additionally I have niece who’s now 15, the same age as one of my sisters. So while I don’t qualify as a parent, I do have some experience with babies. There are times where it simply isn’t possible to get the baby to stop crying. About 10 years ago I was down in Disney with much of my family, sharing a room with my mom, sister and her family. That included a niece who was about 18 months at the time.

She was one of the best babies I’ve frankly ever seen. She rarely cried, even for food. Most of the time she’d just make a bit of a fuss and mommy or daddy would know that it was time for food or a change of the diaper. As luck would have it while we were there, one day she never got her usual nap. Every time she’d fall asleep, we’d have to get off the bus, or leave the theatre, or what have you.

By the time we got back to the hotel room that night, she was overly tired. So tired that she just wouldn’t go to sleep, and she wouldn’t stop crying because she desperately needed sleep. Despite the best efforts of my sister and brother-in-law, this went on for at least a half an hour, and they tried many different things to calm her. Eventually my brother-in-law took her out of the room and went walking the grounds of the Polynesian hotel to try to calm her down.

Finally after well over an hour, she fell asleep in his arms and he was able to return to the room and put her to bed for the night. I would certainly have never thought that they shouldn’t have traveled with my niece, since that had never happened before. Even they were quite surprised at how upset she was.

Now you don’t go into the particulars of the incident, like how long the crying went on, or what if anything the parents did or didn’t do. But assuming that they were trying, they didn’t have the luxury of a nice, quiet, dimly lit walkway to help calm their child. Besides who knows if that would have worked in this case. PRR60 is correct when he says that sometimes there just really isn’t much that one can do. One has to keep trying different things, hoping that something eventually works.

One thing that I can tell you is that at no time did PRR ever suggest that parents don’t have an obligation to control their kids. Knowing him personally, I’m quite sure that he is well aware of that fact and would never suggest otherwise. He did however suggest that if you travel in coach, then you have to take the risk that either you might meet up with parents who don’t care, or for whatever reason simply finds themselves in a position where nothing they try to do solves the problem. It does happen, whether we like it or not, as well as the parents like it or not.

And the fact remains that parents do have a right to travel, even with small children. How do you know that they don’t have a car, didn’t have the money to fly, and weren’t on their way to a funeral? Should they have stayed home and perhaps missed the funeral of a relative, simply because their baby might cry? Would you wish that on anyone? Would you not travel under similar circumstances, even if you knew that their might be a problem?

Again, I’m not suggesting that the parents shouldn’t be doing everything humanly possible to stop the crying. But sometimes the best efforts of a parent are still not going to be good enough.

I will also say that I would be rather upset if someone called one of my siblings or one of my nieces or nephews a thing or it. Perhaps because he’s a parent, PRR took that more to heart than I did, but I do think that you could have phrased that a bit better.

Next PRR60, I do have to say that even I felt you were a bit harsh in a few of your statements. I was particularly unhappy with “Or take your own medication and sleep the trip away yourself” Since you know nothing about Mercedes, you have no idea whether she is indeed on any kind of medication. If she is indeed, this could have been a very hurtful remark. Even if she’s not, it is still not appropriate in my mind.

Shotgun, first PRR60 is far from just “some angry guy”. He may be now, having read your post though. However he is a respected member of this forum who has provided invaluable help to many members, has traveled thousands of miles on Amtrak as well as by airplane, and quite honestly is one of the more intelligent people I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting on many of my own rail trips. He’s also a parent having raised his own kids. So he has plenty of experience to draw upon.

Now I don’t personally know you and I’m certainly not suggesting that you don’t possess many of those same qualities. But I do think that if you plan to comment on PRR’s posts, then you at least owe him the respect of actually reading his entire post first.

Additionally, unless you are prepared to do a tuck & roll, stepping outside is not a viable option when on the train. Now again I will admit we don’t know what, if anything, those parents were trying to do. But the point remains that many times there aren’t options. Those parents may not have been experienced Amtrak travelers. They may not have realized that they even had the option of heading to the lounge car.

Plus many times there are already people sleeping in the lounge, so that would have only transferred the problem to someone else’s ear. And I’ve been on a few trains were the crew wouldn’t let you stay in the lounge car once the attendant went off duty. And the diner is often considered off limits by many crews, once it closes after dinner.

Finally I was quite unhappy with the one remark, now removed from your post. I will ask that you please refrain from such comments in the future. You certainly aren’t going to convince PRR to change his mind either with comments like that.

In closing let me say that it is not my intention to drive anyone of you away from the forum. I believe that you all have ideas, experience, and knowledge to contribute to this forum and I certainly don’t want to loose any of you over this topic. I’m a firm believer that a forum is only as rich as all of its members, and we need every one.

But I also hope that all of you, as well as everyone else reading this topic will take a deep breath and calm down a bit and discuss this topic calmly and reasonably. If for some reason anyone feels that they can’t do that, then please just refrain from commenting in this topic and perhaps even refrain from reading it.

But please don’t leave the forums over this.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 13, 2008)

Before Alan closed the topic, I was going to say the following, and I think it still applies:

There is something I'd call a balance. A child crying is a perfectly reasonable thing to expect on a train trip. As are people whispering, or quietly talking, in a car during the night. So is, perhaps, a cellphone ringing. Drunk people are a common thing on Amtrak trains, and if you think you aren't going to "experience" them, you got another think coming. Even I drink more than what I normally do when on the train (and resultantly, not soon getting behind the wheel of a car).

But the balance goes the other way. A parent with a crying child that they can't quiet should go into the vestibule on an Amfleet, or the small woman's lounge on a Superliner, or the Dining car (I'm sure many crew members would not mind if your intention was to continue the comfort of your fellow passengers, you kept the area of the car you were in clean, and you left when the need passed) or the Lounge car if nobody was sleeping in it. People yelling or singing in the middle of the night aren't welcome, and should be reported to the conductor, and if their actions continue, put off the train. If the cellphone rings, you answer it as quickly and quietly as possible, and if the conversation needs to continue, you take it into the lavatory. People who are drunk to the point of very inappropriate behavior are likewise not welcome.

I don't know where this particular child was, but my point is: you're both right, both wrong, and both too excited.


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## dan72 (Mar 14, 2008)

I've been following this thread for a few days and will offer a couple of comments:

I was on the SWC myself on the 4th and 5th from CHI to FLG (I'll be writing up a report in the next few days). We were not even out of IL when the assistant conductor got on the PA and started scolding passengers for buying for a person who had long since been cut off by the lounge car staff. She threatened to put anybody off the train who was doing this. I don't know if the drunk was put off or not, but the rumor was he/she was very close to it by the time we got to Fort Madison. I know the SWC is not the only train to deal with this, but it's interesting that it has come up now twice in a short period of time.

We were in coach from MSP to CHI and did have children on. We had the occasional cry, but nothing really bad and our part of the trip was during the daytime. When I was heading to the lounge car, I noticed a mom who had a 1year old and an infant tucked into her the seat next to her. She didn't have an easy job, but her kids were behaved. I would suspect that this was probably the most affordable and/or practical means for her to travel alone with two small ones.

I can see both sides of the child issue that has erupted here. I'm personally very annoyed in church when a kid starts throwing a fit and the parent will not take he/she out. I usually go too far the other way and if one of ours even starts getting a little loud, I whisk them out right away--probably too soon. I have two children myself and at times when they were little, consoling them sometimes was next to impossible - especially if they are overtired or ill. And no, I didn't find either of them to be cute at the time, either.  That being said, my wife have been very cautious about doing things like train travel or extensive travel until our kids are older. My oldest is high-functioning autistic and while he goes about his days pretty normally, there are times when things get the best of him and he has a hard time keeping things in check. While we recognize his challenges, I don't think it should stop him from having some great experiences such as riding the train (which he loves to do). We are planning on taking them west next year where they will be 5 and 9 years old and to an age where I am more comfortable with having them along to avoid the scenario being discussed. If they do misbehave, I can guarantee I will be on them immediately and they will always be under either mine or my wife's supervision. Plus, we plan on taking two roomettes for the four of us, so if my oldest needs a break, he can do that and have some space. I've also started talking to them about the fact they need to be quiet and respectful on the train and that they do not want to get into trouble with the conductor because he/she can also make us leave the train. I don't want to scare them, but I am trying to instill into them they need to respect others around them as well and if they don't there are potential consequences. I do agree that parents need to be responsible at all times on a train or plane and I personally get steamed when I see parents 'turn their kids loose' on other passengers without a care. That is irresponsible and would have no problem if they were told to reign the kids in or else.

Anyway, I think GML and Alan have very good points in their posts that is is all about balance and that we don't always know the whole story. While many of us take Amtrak for pleasure travel, there is also a faction that take it because they need to. I think back to that mom with the two little ones. She could have been traveling due to a sick family member, a death, a medical issue...who knows. The reality is this, not just on trains, but any other form of transportation or other public areas: There are people who want nothing to do with kids and parents need to realize that and do whatever they can to make things as least a disruption as possible. On the other hand, those that want nothing to do with children need to understand that the human race is perpetuating itself whether or not they like it and if they have such a distaste for it, then they need to take those steps to help insure their own quiet - whether it is a sleeper, driving, or whatever else they need to do.

Lastly, for those who are stating 'when I have kids, I will do x,y and z to make them behave' all I can say is good luck to that.  While I had plenty of ideas of how I would discipline and handle my children, I've found it's about 50-50 that what you THINK will work vs. what will ACTUALLY work (at least in my experience - everybody's is different). And that is with two boys of VERY different personalities. 

Anyway, I ramble. I'll have my EB/SWC report posted shortly.

Dan


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2008)

dan72 said:


> Lastly, for those who are stating 'when I have kids, I will do x,y and z to make them behave' all I can say is good luck to that.  While I had plenty of ideas of how I would discipline and handle my children, I've found it's about 50-50 that what you THINK will work vs. what will ACTUALLY work (at least in my experience - everybody's is different). And that is with two boys of VERY different personalities.
> Anyway, I ramble. I'll have my EB/SWC report posted shortly.
> 
> Dan


To me, kids are like computers. Every time you think you have them all figured out, they do something that simply baffles you and leaves you scrambling for a solution. And, by the way, don't think that when they grow up it changes. Mine are 24 and 30 and they still confound me from time to time.


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## dan72 (Mar 14, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> dan72 said:
> 
> 
> > Lastly, for those who are stating 'when I have kids, I will do x,y and z to make them behave' all I can say is good luck to that.  While I had plenty of ideas of how I would discipline and handle my children, I've found it's about 50-50 that what you THINK will work vs. what will ACTUALLY work (at least in my experience - everybody's is different). And that is with two boys of VERY different personalities.
> ...


If only I could find the ctrl+alt+del keys! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan


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## GG-1 (Mar 15, 2008)

dan72 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > dan72 said:
> ...


Heck all I want is to tap their energy source :lol: My Daughter 35, Granddaughter 6


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