# Amtrak clamps down on mileage runs



## Ispolkom (Nov 13, 2008)

I noticed on flyer talk that the AGR Terms and Conditions have been changed by the addition of this sentence:

"A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per member, per day will be allowed to earn points under the 100 point minimum per trip rule."

This rule change is obviously to cut down on cheap, quick mileage runs to build up rail points towards Select or Select + status.

I don't see any problem with this change, as it still allows piling up 400 rail points a day. I'd love to hear, though, from those it effects.

The discussion is at: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread....22#post10742622


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## the_traveler (Nov 13, 2008)

With the exception of the time before they closed the 100 point minimum per segment (even for the same train) loophole, the *ONLY* time I earned 400 points in 1 day was on NTD. Even if you are traveling to/from a place with a short connecting train, it should not be a problem for most passengers. Except for some, there should be very few that this "change" should effect. (Most people do not do more than 2 round trips per day.)


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## diesteldorf (Nov 14, 2008)

Does anyone know if they look at the time a trip begins to determine what date it falls into? If I leave Chicago on the Lakeshore to go to Toledo, will they look at the start time or the arrival time to determine what day it counts against?


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## the_traveler (Nov 14, 2008)

diesteldorf said:


> Does anyone know if they look at the time a trip begins to determine what date it falls into? If I leave Chicago on the Lakeshore to go to Toledo, will they look at the start time or the arrival time to determine what day it counts against?


It would be the start time of the trip that is counted. But even if you start at say STL or MKE or MSP, that is only 2 trains on that day!


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 14, 2008)

Ispolkom said:


> "A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per member, per day will be allowed to earn points under the 100 point minimum per trip rule."


Does that mean that if I managed to take 5 trips with $49 each tickets in one day, I'd get 100 points for each of the first four segments, and 98 points for the fifth segment?


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## AlanB (Nov 14, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > "A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per member, per day will be allowed to earn points under the 100 point minimum per trip rule."
> ...


Yup.


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## JNachoMan (Nov 17, 2008)

Here's an example of a mileage run trip that could be done out of Philadelphia, and still qualify for the 100-point minimums on all segments:

You would book this using the " Multi City " option on amtrak's site:

1 Passenger:

Passenger 1: Adult

Rail Fare: $13.00

Accommodations Price: $0.00

spacer

Total: $13.00

Departing: Philadelphia - 30th Street Station, PA (PHL) To Paoli, PA (PAO)

Service

Departs

Arrives Duration Amenities Seats/

Rooms

609 Keystone Philadelphia, PA

- 30th Street Station

(PHL)

10:00 am

17-NOV-08 Paoli, PA

(PAO)

10:23 am

17-NOV-08 0h 23m 1 Unreserved Coach Seat

Departing: Paoli, PA (PAO) To Exton, PA (EXT)

Service

Departs

Arrives Duration Amenities Seats/

Rooms

643 Keystone Paoli, PA

(PAO)

11:23 am

17-NOV-08 Exton, PA

(EXT)

11:30 am

17-NOV-08 0h 7m 1 Unreserved Coach Seat

Departing: Exton, PA (EXT) To Paoli, PA (PAO)

Service

Departs

Arrives Duration Amenities Seats/

Rooms

648 Keystone Exton, PA

(EXT)

12:08 pm

17-NOV-08 Paoli, PA

(PAO)

12:17 pm

17-NOV-08 0h 9m 1 Unreserved Coach Seat

Departing: Paoli, PA (PAO) To Philadelphia - 30th Street Station, PA (PHL)

Service

Departs

Arrives Duration Amenities Seats/

Rooms

650 Keystone Paoli, PA

(PAO)

1:16 pm

17-NOV-08 Philadelphia, PA

- 30th Street Station

(PHL)

1:42 pm

17-NOV-08 0h 26m 1 Unreserved Coach Seat


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## rtabern (Nov 27, 2008)

To rack up points quickly, I have been known to ride the Hiawatha trains between Chicago and Glenview --- and also between downtown Milwaukee and Milwaukee Airport.

You can spend $27 to do 2 round-trips and get 1,000 points (400 rail + 400 fall double points + 200 select plus bonus points)

It's really a deal because you only have to spend $540 to get a free 2-zone sleeper.

(Often times a 2 zone sleeper can run you $700-1,000 if you got CHI-LAX via SAS or PDX)

With that said, I usually call it quits after 2 round-trips because it can take 4 hours... and by then, it's enough and you get enough weird looks from the conductors as to why you're riding for just 10 minutes from MKE-MKA... hahaha.


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## chuljin (Nov 27, 2008)

Love the subtitle:

'Have you ever done this?'

There was scarcely a day in January when I didn't do it, either as many as 6 one-ways between LAX and GDL on weekdays, or 10 between SNA and ANA on weekends.  Select on Jan 13, Select Plus in mid-March (the latter so late only because I got tired  ).

Those days are behind me...I'm too old (and perhaps even honest) for that now...I will try to requalify in 2009, but at a more modest pace.

As to the 4-a-day issue, I already have a test itinerary lined up: on Dec 14, I have a 7-segment trip (GDL-CWT-LAX-OSD-FUL-SNA-IRV-GDL) planned. This time, though, it's not a purposeful mileage run (but it will be a good test), but rather for the love of trains, and to celebrate my 'Amtrak Anniversary' (the LAX-OSD segment will be the same, in city pair and train number, as my very first trip on Amtrak on Dec 14, 2007).

With luck, they will forget to adjust the code for it the same way they forgot for the double-point promo, for which I've gotten 3 tickets a day on 3-4 separate days, despite the terms saying just 2. 

If not, though, it will be interesting to see which three tickets will be the 'victim' tickets...hopefully the three most expensive tickets. 

I'll come back and let everyone know how it goes.


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## Ispolkom (Nov 28, 2008)

chuljin said:


> Love the subtitle:
> 'Have you ever done this?'
> 
> There was scarcely a day in January when I didn't do it, either as many as 6 one-ways between LAX and GDL on weekdays, or 10 between SNA and ANA on weekends.  Select on Jan 13, Select Plus in mid-March (the latter so late only because I got tired  ).
> ...


Your exploits did come to mind, but it seemed unpleasant and hostile to subtitle it, "Did Chuljin ruin it for everyone?" Someone might take it seriously. I'm always impressed and a bit envious of the industry with which mileage fiends can rack up the rail miles. Living in the middle of the Empire Builder's route, that's hardly possible for me, and for some reason my wife always has plans for Chicago or Washington DC that don't include mileage runs to Glenview or New Carrollton. If it weren't for the AGR Mastercard, I'd have to pay for every sleeper.


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## chuljin (Nov 29, 2008)

Ispolkom said:


> Your exploits did come to mind, but it seemed unpleasant and hostile to subtitle it, "Did Chuljin ruin it for everyone?" Someone might take it seriously.


Indeed. But it would no worse than I deserve. In my defense, though...OK, I have no defense.

More accurately, though...it might be "Did chuljin and others like him ruin it for chuljin and others like him?', because, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's unlikely to affect people who use AGR in the intended spirit. I'm sure I'm not the only person who did it (it's a common phenomenon among frequent-traveller programs); I'm just the asshat who bragged the loudest about it. 

Well, it took someone saying it out loud (read: writing it in exactly so many unambiguous words) for me to grow a soul, and I actually suddenly feel rather contrite.

So I've just more or less made my mind up to requalify only with my daily commute home on 785, and my frequent 2- or 3- segment (and fairly expensive, earning-ratio-wise) weekend day trips. This is what AGR ws really meant for. And if it means (as is likely) I only requalify for Select (and slightly more, but not Select Plus) before we move away from Southern California in the spring, well, that's just karma. (But I'll still be Select Plus at 2009 Gathering time, so while I'm on my way there on the SWC or TE [depending on where we move to] and LSL, and scooting up and down the NEC afterwards, you can be sure I'll visit all five Amtrak lounges I'm near, and any airside CO lounges I can find.  )

It's time I remind myself why I like Amtrak, and so thank you for helping me realize that.

And for anyone for whom chuljin *has* ruined it, I apologize.

Thanks for reading, and for your patience.

Chris


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## Ispolkom (Nov 29, 2008)

chuljin said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > Your exploits did come to mind, but it seemed unpleasant and hostile to subtitle it, "Did Chuljin ruin it for everyone?" Someone might take it seriously.
> ...


Oh, come on, you're out there racking up the AGR points, beating the system for all the rest of us sinners. When I think that an overnight trip gets me 104 points, and that you can get the same number of points for a ten minute ride to Glendale or Glenview or Glen-whatever, it gives me a warm feeling that someone, somewhere out there is Beating the System. Fight the power!

Especially since there really isn't any reason for me to get Select or Select +. Those status levels really have much use to me. Am I going to stop at the Metropolitan Lounge to get a pop on my way to the hardware store? Do I need more luggage tags? Is there a Continental Presidents Lounge closer than Chicago?

So keep on fighting the Man, Chris. I'll be rooting from the sidelines.


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## AlanB (Nov 29, 2008)

Ispolkom said:


> Especially since there really isn't any reason for me to get Select or Select +. Those status levels really have much use to me. Am I going to stop at the Metropolitan Lounge to get a pop on my way to the hardware store? Do I need more luggage tags? Is there a Continental Presidents Lounge closer than Chicago?


Well there's still the 25% and 50% bonuses that come with having select and select plus status respectively. They turn your 104 points for an overnight trip into 130 points and 156 points depending on which status.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 29, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Well there's still the 25% and 50% bonuses that come with having select and select plus status respectively. They turn your 104 points for an overnight trip into 130 points and 156 points depending on which status.


Do those affect just points, or also rail points?


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## PRR 60 (Nov 29, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Well there's still the 25% and 50% bonuses that come with having select and select plus status respectively. They turn your 104 points for an overnight trip into 130 points and 156 points depending on which status.
> ...


Just redeemable points. The 25% (Select) and 50% (Select +) bonus points do not count as rail points toward elite status.


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## Ispolkom (Nov 30, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > Especially since there really isn't any reason for me to get Select or Select +. Those status levels really have much use to me. Am I going to stop at the Metropolitan Lounge to get a pop on my way to the hardware store? Do I need more luggage tags? Is there a Continental Presidents Lounge closer than Chicago?
> ...


But those bonuses are hardly worth the effort to gain status unless you either travel in the northeast corridor extensively, commute on Amtrak, or have the opportunity and sitzfleish to do inexpensive mileage runs.

And more power to those who do. I'm sincerely impressed by the artists on this forum, be it Chuljin (and I'm sure I've embarrassed him enough), or The Traveler, who attempted a double Slidell Shuffle. Even if he got, well, derailed in the finish, I give him all props for trying.

As it is, I'm pitching a trip for December 2009, which would have us travel Empire Builder-Cardinal from St. Paul to Washington to visit my wife's family, then Washington-Savannah on the Silver Meteor, a city we've never visited. On the way back, we'd ride Greyhound from Savannah to Atlanta have dinner at the Varsity, and then do a one-zone, three-night shuffle from Atlanta to Minot (ATL-WAS-CHI-MOT on the Crescent, the Capitol Limited and the Empire Builder, 20k points in a bedroom) to spend Xmas with my mother. We'd even get much of another day in Washington to see my father-in-law.

This is long in the future, but does anyone know of a better way of getting from Savannah to Atlanta than Greyhound?


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm considering my own mileage run. Normally I budget $75 for a commuter pass, but skipped getting one for December since I'm on vacation for 1/2 the month.

But, since I still budgeted that money, and with the double-points promotion still good for 2 weeks, I'm thinking I will instead buy 14 one-way tickets between SAO and WEM for the same price.

That would gain me 14 x 100 x 2 + (75 x 2) = 2950 points!

Pretty nice, since I usually just get 300 points for the commuter pass.


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## AlanB (Dec 2, 2008)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> I'm considering my own mileage run. Normally I budget $75 for a commuter pass, but skipped getting one for December since I'm on vacation for 1/2 the month.
> But, since I still budgeted that money, and with the double-points promotion still good for 2 weeks, I'm thinking I will instead buy 14 one-way tickets between SAO and WEM for the same price.
> 
> That would gain me 14 x 100 x 2 + (75 x 2) = 2950 points!
> ...


Sounds good to me!


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## RTOlson (Dec 3, 2008)

I was wondering how most people did these mileage runs. I always thought they did round trips, but now I think they could follow commuter lines, stop at each station and take the next train with a new ticket.

I've just now thought of a Capitol Corridor stagger step -- Sacramento -> Davis -> Suisun/Fairfield -> Martinez -> Richmond -> Berkeley -> Emeryville -> Oakland/Jack London Square -> Oakland Coliseum. It's eight stops there and eight stops back.

It would take from 4:30 a.m. to 10:25 p.m., but it could have yielded 1,600 regular points (+1,600 fall promotion) for $126.

Is that how it would've worked before the rule change?


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## AlanB (Dec 3, 2008)

Yup.


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## RRrich (Dec 3, 2008)

RTOlson said:


> I was wondering how most people did these mileage runs. I always thought they did round trips, but now I think they could follow commuter lines, stop at each station and take the next train with a new ticket.
> I've just now thought of a Capitol Corridor stagger step -- Sacramento -> Davis -> Suisun/Fairfield -> Martinez -> Richmond -> Berkeley -> Emeryville -> Oakland/Jack London Square -> Oakland Coliseum. It's eight stops there and eight stops back.
> 
> It would take from 4:30 a.m. to 10:25 p.m., but it could have yielded 1,600 regular points (+1,600 fall promotion) for $126.
> ...


Does one have to get off the train??

I thought of KWD -> WAH -> HEM, detrain, wait for the Eastbound and HEM -> WAH -> KWD If I gave the conductor a SEPERATE ticket for each of the 4 segments, would I get 400 regular points and 400 bonus points if I did it soon?

Am I correct that this is legal under the new rules??

By the way, there is free parking at KWD and these trains have tickets listed under weekly specials 

So that would get me 800 points for $21 or $0.03/point. I can buy points for $0.0275/point, but this scheme gets me on the train


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## AlanB (Dec 3, 2008)

RRrich said:


> Does one have to get off the train??
> I thought of KWD -> WAH -> HEM, detrain, wait for the Eastbound and HEM -> WAH -> KWD If I gave the conductor a SEPERATE ticket for each of the 4 segments, would I get 400 regular points and 400 bonus points if I did it soon?
> 
> Am I correct that this is legal under the new rules??
> ...


When Amtrak first came out with the 100 point minimum what you proposed above would have worked. However after massive abuse, like one person boarding a Keystone and handing the conductor something like 50 tickets at once (and the conductor stupidly accepting them), Amtrak close that loop hole. Following that incident a new rule was put into place stating that only one ticket per train number per day would earn points.

However, what some people continued to do to earn points was ride multiple trains. In other words they'd ride train #311 KWD-WAH, get off and wait for train #313 and ride that WAH-HEM. They'd then return via 314 & 316. Now I realize that one can't do a one day trip like this using the Mules and Ann, but in many areas like the Keystones, Hiwathas, Cali services, one can do a single day trip with multiple trains to rack up points.

The new rule now says that only the first 4 trains that you ride in a given day will earn the minimum 100 AGR points. What remains unclear is whether or not you at least earn the 2 X dollar points for additional tickets or if you earn nothing.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 6, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> I noticed on flyer talk that the AGR Terms and Conditions have been changed by the addition of this sentence:
> "A maximum of two roundtrips or four one-way trips, per member, per day will be allowed to earn points under the 100 point minimum per trip rule."
> 
> This rule change is obviously to cut down on cheap, quick mileage runs to build up rail points towards Select or Select + status.
> ...


Today it is reported on Flyertalk that the limit of four 100-mile minimum trips per day has been removed from the AGR Terms and Conditions. Now that may be just a slip-up by Amtrak in the general re-write of the T's and C's, but maybe they either changed their mind or found their somewhat rudimentary software was not up to the challenge of enforcing the rule. If either of the later are true, then it's like a belated Christmas present for our friend, "chuljin".


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## chuljin (Jan 6, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed on flyer talk that the AGR Terms and Conditions have been changed by the addition of this sentence:
> ...


Well, we'll see. I had a 'typewriter' (see if you can guess why I call it that) trip on 12/27, GDL-LAX-FUL-SNA-IRV-GDL (5 segments), not a mileage run (as such, it was a week uselessly early), but a lazy hell-of-it trip whose segments just kinda shook out that way. The IRV-GDL segment posted today; the other four haven't. Perhaps they or their software is still unpuzzling them.


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## chuljin (Jan 6, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed on flyer talk that the AGR Terms and Conditions have been changed by the addition of this sentence:
> ...


Wait, strange, I still see it at.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 6, 2009)

chuljin said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > Ispolkom said:
> ...


Oh, that's funny! That is not what was up on the site this morning. There was speculation at FT that AGR messed up and posted a rework of an old T&C page, and it looks like they did. What a goofy operation.

Flyertalk Thread


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## chuljin (Jan 6, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> chuljin said:
> 
> 
> > PRR 60 said:
> ...


Perhaps Carlson didn't give over the source code for the website and the new outfit had to recover it from the Internet Wayback Machine!


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## diesteldorf (Jan 7, 2009)

AlanB said:


> The new rule now says that only the first 4 trains that you ride in a given day will earn the minimum 100 AGR points. What remains unclear is whether or not you at least earn the 2 X dollar points for additional tickets or if you earn nothing.


A couple weeks ago, I took an Amtrak bus from Rockford to Chicago.

Here was my my Itinerary that day:

A) Rockford to Chicago via Bus

B) Chicago to Glenview via Hiwatha (ate lunch at Grandpa's and loved the Italian Beef)

C) Glenview to Chicago via Hiawatha

D) Chicago to Milwaukee via Hiawatha

E) Milwaukee to La Crosse, WI via the EB

B-E Posted on the correct day and I earned 400 points. The bus segments never post unless I call.

Because I wanted to get credit for the Chicago to Rockford segment I had taken a few days before to visit family,

I gave the agent the info for the Rockford to Chicago segment as well.

When it posted, I got a big ZERO

So, if you take 5 trips with tickets under $50, you'll get nada for that last ticket whether it is $5 or $49.50.


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## wayman (Jan 7, 2009)

diesteldorf said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The new rule now says that only the first 4 trains that you ride in a given day will earn the minimum 100 AGR points. What remains unclear is whether or not you at least earn the 2 X dollar points for additional tickets or if you earn nothing.
> ...


Good to know. Meanwhile, just this morning I got my own personal confirmation that points do post for up to four trains on a single day, when the third and fourth Keystones I took on 23 Dec posted  That's my first four-train day which has had all its segments post.

Five late-December Keystones and a Crescent yet to post, and I'll cross the Select threshhold!


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## chuljin (Jan 7, 2009)

chuljin said:


> Well, we'll see. I had a 'typewriter' (see if you can guess why I call it that) trip on 12/27, GDL-LAX-FUL-SNA-IRV-GDL (5 segments), not a mileage run (as such, it was a week uselessly early), but a lazy hell-of-it trip whose segments just kinda shook out that way. The IRV-GDL segment posted today; the other four haven't. Perhaps they or their software is still unpuzzling them.





diesteldorf said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > The new rule now says that only the first 4 trains that you ride in a given day will earn the minimum 100 AGR points. What remains unclear is whether or not you at least earn the 2 X dollar points for additional tickets or if you earn nothing.
> ...


My experience agrees. For the typewriter trip above, IRV-GDL posted yesterday as 100(+50); GDL-LAX, LAX-FUL, FUL-SNA, and SNA-IRV posted today as 100, 100, 100, and 0 respectively. Oh well.


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