# Rude Amtrak employees



## tjemartin (Feb 15, 2010)

Hello all

I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.

During other stops, the conductor (or other Amtrak employee), would announce the stop so everyone could clearly hear on the train, even near the front of the car where I was sitting, because it was hard to hear the usual arrival announcements. When we arrived in Wilmington, I couldn't make out the usual announcement over the PA and the conductor did not repeat that we had arrived in Wilmington. I almost missed my stop and I guess the conductor was not pleased that he had to direct me all the way to the back of the train so I that could step off the train. I was not rude, I simply told him that you can not hear the announcement clearly from where I was sitting and that they should somehow fix the problem, so more people don't miss their stops, but it seemed like he didn't care...

Has anyone else had this kind of problem before? Just curious. I'm very unsure if I will be taking Amtrak again in the future. As stated before this was my first Amtrak trip and am not sure if my situation is experienced by more passengers.


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## greatcats (Feb 15, 2010)

Some crew members may leave something to be desired, it is true, but it sounds like you don't have too much to complain about and that your trip overall was pleasant. From an employee standpoint, it can be frustrating when things like PA systems do not work properly, but that does not justify being rude to the customer. From a passenger standpoint, I would suggest in the future that you make yourself more familiar with the operation of the train and the running times. Study the schedule in advance and that should make you aware that the previous stop was Baltimore and in an hour or so the next station stop would be yours in Wilmington. Happy travels.


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## haolerider (Feb 15, 2010)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all
> I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.
> 
> During other stops, the conductor (or other Amtrak employee), would announce the stop so everyone could clearly hear on the train, even near the front of the car where I was sitting, because it was hard to hear the usual arrival announcements. When we arrived in Wilmington, I couldn't make out the usual announcement over the PA and the conductor did not repeat that we had arrived in Wilmington. I almost missed my stop and I guess the conductor was not pleased that he had to direct me all the way to the back of the train so I that could step off the train. I was not rude, I simply told him that you can not hear the announcement clearly from where I was sitting and that they should somehow fix the problem, so more people don't miss their stops, but it seemed like he didn't care...
> ...


I am surprised there was not a more clear annoucement into Wilmington, since there is massive construction/renovation going on at that station and passengers can get on and off the train in a very limited amount of space on the platform. Most of the platform has been blocked off due to the construction and therefore all doors cannot be used; however if the conductor was rude, that is not an accectable excuse.


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## acelafan (Feb 15, 2010)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all
> I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.
> 
> During other stops, the conductor (or other Amtrak employee), would announce the stop so everyone could clearly hear on the train, even near the front of the car where I was sitting, because it was hard to hear the usual arrival announcements. When we arrived in Wilmington, I couldn't make out the usual announcement over the PA and the conductor did not repeat that we had arrived in Wilmington. I almost missed my stop and I guess the conductor was not pleased that he had to direct me all the way to the back of the train so I that could step off the train. I was not rude, I simply told him that you can not hear the announcement clearly from where I was sitting and that they should somehow fix the problem, so more people don't miss their stops, but it seemed like he didn't care...
> ...


Just like any organization there will be good employees and less-than-stellar employees. Conductors should not be rude to passengers and Amtrak needs to continue improvements in that area. But a large majority of the trips I took on Amtrak in the past year had very pleasant staff and actually many were a lot of fun to be around. So it can vary, to say the least.


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## yarrow (Feb 15, 2010)

as the op notes, rude employees are few but those who don't seem to care are somewhat more prevalent. if the op feels there was a significant problem he can call (with his ticket stub in hand)1-800-usa-rail and ask for customer relations


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## had8ley (Feb 15, 2010)

This is one time I'm going to take my licks for the train crew. When you work, day after day, with equipment that is not quite up to snuff you tend to become complacent. Amtrak used to have a "Right & ready" program some years ago. The shop crews were rewarded if trains went out without defects. It didn't last long as a lot of the equipment failures, such as your PA problem, could not be fixed at many outlying locations. The conductor's apparent rudeness was probably a result of his realizing that 1. The PA didn't work which isn't unusual~ many of the Viewliner cars PA's only work if the SCA gets on the PA in the car itself. 2. Unless someone informs him the conductor doesn't realize that all the pax did not hear the announcement. And last, but not least, I'm sure you weren't jumping for joy that you almost went on to the next station stop. Now, give me five minutes to put on my suit of armor !!!


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## rrdude (Feb 15, 2010)

greatcats said:


> .............. From a passenger standpoint, I would suggest in the future that *you make yourself more familiar* with the operation of the train and the running times. Study the schedule in advance and that should make you aware that the previous stop was Baltimore and in an hour or so the next station stop would be yours in Wilmington. Happy travels.


So now the passengers have to "educate themselves"?

C'mon, this is just another example of the train-riding public, making excuses for Amtrak's shortcomings.

The thinking of "any train is better than no train, and I'll put up with, and make excuses for "any train"...." have got to end.

Our job as rail passenger advocates is to hold Amtrak's feet to fire, and make them run a railroad like we KNOW a railroad can be run.

I feel so sorry for all the AU members who never knew rail travel before Amtrak. I almost fall into that category, as my pre-Amtrak travel was at a very young age.

Amtrak defines mediocracy. Sure, there are those jewel of times when the train is only a few minutes late, the food is edible, and the staff is pleasant.

But Amtrak, with very little "investment", could be MUCH better. Imagine if the bulk of their employees were trained in the "Disney way of customer service". Hell, the train could be filthy, 6 hours late, and have run out of food, and you'd still think you had a good time..........

Making excuses for Amtrak is not in Amtrak's best interest. If you expect sub-par performance, then you will get sub-par performance.


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## oldtimer (Feb 15, 2010)

had8ley said:


> This is one time I'm going to take my licks for the train crew. When you work, day after day, with equipment that is not quite up to snuff you tend to become complacent. Amtrak used to have a "Right & ready" program some years ago. The shop crews were rewarded if trains went out without defects. It didn't last long as a lot of the equipment failures, such as your PA problem, could not be fixed at many outlying locations. The conductor's apparent rudeness was probably a result of his realizing that 1. The PA didn't work which isn't unusual~ many of the Viewliner cars PA's only work if the SCA gets on the PA in the car itself. 2. Unless someone informs him the conductor doesn't realize that all the pax did not hear the announcement. And last, but not least, I'm sure you weren't jumping for joy that you almost went on to the next station stop. Now, give me five minutes to put on my suit of armor !!!


Had8ley,

First of all I don't know who told you that "The shop crews were rewarded if trains went out without defects." The only reward that I know of is that you would be screamed at belittled and berated by the supervision for 10 minutes instead of the daily 20 minute routine. Since the mid 80's mechanical forces have been undermanned and even yet had suffered force reductions. The true problem for trains dispatched with defects had many levels. The amount of time the mechanical crew has to repair the defect, remember that they must work under blue flag rules. Material control has reduced its inventory as items that sit on shelfs cost money and do not make money, thus many times material needed to repair the defects in not in stock. A lot of time is consumed by going to material control and waiting for your part even if it was in stock. The leadership has set some high standards as they have taken and put into company policy the amount of time needed to do running repair. These numbers may be able to happen with all the material there, your most experienced employees and finally the most optimal working conditions. Not -10 air temp, 30 mph winds driving rain or 30" of snow.

Yes, very recently Amtrak has started to address these problems with hiring and changes in material distribution. I think it is too late as of the knowledge is rapidly falling as more and more of the " Baby Boomer's" have retired or will very soon.

I hope you have had your 5 minutes to put your suit of armor on, and give me five to put on my fireproof Nomex suit from my racing days!

PS had8ley, you must be a lot older than me if you have a suit of armor! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 15, 2010)

had8ley said:


> This is one time I'm going to take my licks for the train crew. When you work, day after day, with equipment that is not quite up to snuff you tend to become complacent. Amtrak used to have a "Right & ready" program some years ago. The shop crews were rewarded if trains went out without defects. It didn't last long as a lot of the equipment failures, such as your PA problem, could not be fixed at many outlying locations. The conductor's apparent rudeness was probably a result of his realizing that 1. The PA didn't work which isn't unusual~ many of the Viewliner cars PA's only work if the SCA gets on the PA in the car itself. 2. Unless someone informs him the conductor doesn't realize that all the pax did not hear the announcement. And last, but not least, I'm sure you weren't jumping for joy that you almost went on to the next station stop. Now, give me five minutes to put on my suit of armor !!!


Here come the arrows and boiling oil, Duck!  I think most of us understand your point but rudeness to paying (or freeloaders like some of our members,

no names mentioned!)is unexcusable! Yes human nature is what it is but when people sign on to work in a customer service job it is job #1 to be polite,

professional and do the job you agreed to do for the pay and benefits! As everyone generally says (generally is what Generals say/do!  )most OBS are fairly civil and overall do a good job but SOME of the crew, especially conductors on certain routes can be rude and even profane!I am old enough to have ridden the trains back in the day when railroad folks took pride in their jobs,as the oldtimers retire/die out perhaps the next generation wont be as great but you do still run into newbies that remind you of the old days, just not enough!Better training,hands on management and customer feedback is needed to correct this problem with the crews, it's mostly a management fault IMO!

I urge all posters here, and other people I come into contact with to contact Amtrak CR and let them know about the good,bad and indifferent when they ride Amtrak trains! Different people have mentioned about crew bases where the less than friendly OBS operate out of (CHI is mentioned the most followed by NYP)and while that may generally be true, Ive run into some a**holes all over the Country, some even as bad as the French towards Americans!  We foamers may be a little more tolerant than newbies and occasional riders but need not be apologists for less than professional and efficient service by Amtrak employees!Lets all get the lazy,unprofessional and uncaring off the trains, plenty of folks would love these jobs!


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## amtrakwolverine (Feb 15, 2010)

if they hate there job so much why don't they quit or are they not allowed to quit. all you can do is take names and report. if enough reports against a certain employee are received then that person might get written up or dismissed.


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## haolerider (Feb 15, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> if they hate there job so much why don't they quit or are they not allowed to quit. all you can do is take names and report. if enough reports against a certain employee are received then that person might get written up or dismissed.


They don't want to quit, because they have a good thing going - good pay - little if any supervision - long hours, but lots of time off - good benefits and good retirement - - - - so what would make them want to quit? They also get very good protection from their union. You have to do something extremely serious to get fired and even then, you might get brought back by the union and a management that chooses not to fight to keep the non-preformers off the employment rolls. All in all, a pretty pathetic way to run a company.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 15, 2010)

greatcats said:


> Some crew members may leave something to be desired, it is true, but it sounds like you don't have too much to complain about and that your trip overall was pleasant. From an employee standpoint, it can be frustrating when things like PA systems do not work properly, but that does not justify being rude to the customer. From a passenger standpoint, I would suggest in the future that you make yourself more familiar with the operation of the train and the running times. Study the schedule in advance and that should make you aware that the previous stop was Baltimore and in an hour or so the next station stop would be yours in Wilmington. Happy travels.



Yes to all the above.

But then there is this: the poster may have been reading the timetable showing a 12 noon stop at Wilmington. But he may well have not noticed that the train can be early from Alexandria consistently north to New York because it stops only to discharge passengers north of Alexandira, Va, not to receive thus there is nobody to wait for to board.

So perhaps he was not ready for it to be in Wilmington. The Crescent from New Orleans and Atlanta and trains from FLorida all stop only to discharge north from Alexandria to New York. Amtrak has tons of trains to capture the short distance leaving the long distance trains with room for longer haul passengers.

Such trains have been known to terminate in New York slightly more than an hour early.Of course this early running cannot be guaranteed, it is all subject to dispatcher control.But the timetable does note that the train can leave early.It shows a "D" note at those stops, meaning discharge only.


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## Sue in KY (Feb 15, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> I urge all posters here, and other people I come into contact with to contact Amtrak CR and let them know about the good,bad and indifferent when they ride Amtrak trains! Different people have mentioned about crew bases where the less than friendly OBS operate out of (CHI is mentioned the most followed by NYP)and while that may generally be true, Ive run into some a**holes all over the Country, some even as bad as the French towards Americans!  We foamers may be a little more tolerant than newbies and occasional riders but need not be apologists for less than professional and efficient service by Amtrak employees!Lets all get the lazy,unprofessional and uncaring off the trains, plenty of folks would love these jobs!


Actually, we were assured by an Amtrak on-board CSR, who rode on our December trip back from California on the SW Chief, that Amtrak REALLY DOES want to hear, in as great detail as we can make it, how our trips go -- particularly if anything goes badly!

We both phoned and e-mailed Customer Service after we got home, and (although we told them we weren't interested in a voucher since we'd received a $500 one after our March trip) Amtrak sent us yet another one, this time for $450. (I'd rather they saved the money and spent their effort on making changes in training, etc. -- but I'm certainly not going to turn my nose up at this unexpected free travel!)


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## had8ley (Feb 15, 2010)

oldtimer2 said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > This is one time I'm going to take my licks for the train crew. When you work, day after day, with equipment that is not quite up to snuff you tend to become complacent. Amtrak used to have a "Right & ready" program some years ago. The shop crews were rewarded if trains went out without defects. It didn't last long as a lot of the equipment failures, such as your PA problem, could not be fixed at many outlying locations. The conductor's apparent rudeness was probably a result of his realizing that 1. The PA didn't work which isn't unusual~ many of the Viewliner cars PA's only work if the SCA gets on the PA in the car itself. 2. Unless someone informs him the conductor doesn't realize that all the pax did not hear the announcement. And last, but not least, I'm sure you weren't jumping for joy that you almost went on to the next station stop. Now, give me five minutes to put on my suit of armor !!!
> ...


If I hadn't seen the "Right & Ready" program for myself I would never have believed it. It DID exist in NOL but as management in other shops goes they may have decided not to institute it wherever you worked. Gotta keep that budget straight ! :huh:


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## Chris J. (Feb 15, 2010)

I think the OP should write or call Amtrak to let them know. They may or may not do anything about it; but if you don't tell them they certainly aren't going to.


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## Steve4031 (Feb 15, 2010)

Maybe the employee could have been nicer. Asking the customer to be familiar with the schedule is asking a lot. First of all, in coach, there probably were not any available. The OP would have to know to get one in the station.

In my experience, I am one of few who really enjoy the intricacies of schedules. So the announcements do play an important role. Hopefully, in the future, Amtrak will do a better job with maintaining equipment with more funding. But asking the customer to do what was asked above is a bit unreasonable.

I prepare myself most of the time when I travel. But despite that, I sometimes lose track of where I am in unfamiliar areas such as Europe. So IMHO having advance knowledge does not replace the need for clear announcements.


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## Big Iron (Feb 15, 2010)

rrdude said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > .............. From a passenger standpoint, I would suggest in the future that *you make yourself more familiar* with the operation of the train and the running times. Study the schedule in advance and that should make you aware that the previous stop was Baltimore and in an hour or so the next station stop would be yours in Wilmington. Happy travels.
> ...


I tried to get an answer to what type of customer service traiing the OB crew received in a thread titile "Customer Service....Does Amtrak Do This." Whatever training Amtrak is using AIN'T working. I think the nice/good employees come by it naturally.


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## Ryan (Feb 15, 2010)

rrdude said:


> So now the passengers have to "educate themselves"?
> C'mon, this is just another example of the train-riding public, making excuses for Amtrak's shortcomings.


I disagree, I think that it's another example of people expecting others to exercise a little bit of personal responsibility and be aware of their surroundings. Whether I'm on a train, bus cab, I try to remain aware of where I am, and compare it to where I expect to be. It isn't asking the world of someone when taking a train to know what the stop before theirs is, and how long after that stop my stop will be. In the OP's case, it isn't that hard to know that after leaving Baltimore you've got about an hour to go, so when the train comes into a city and slows down after 50 minutes that it's time to get your gear together and be ready to move. Also, since someone usually comes around and collects seat checks 5 or 10 minutes before arriving at a station, that's another "heads up" that doesn't sound like happened (or was heeded), and an opportunity that I always personally take to verify "Is this door going to be opening?".


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## daveyb99 (Feb 15, 2010)

I am on the other side of this one, sorry. And NO, I am not 'defending AMTRAK' or any of the such.



tjemartin said:


> Has anyone else had this kind of problem before? Just curious. I'm very unsure if I will be taking Amtrak again in the future. As stated before this was my first Amtrak trip and am not sure if my situation is experienced by more passengers.


What situation. I understand the announcement was hard to hear, but you had no awareness of your station stop upcoming? And what rudeness by which employees, as you indicate in your title. The conductor has a passenger running to get off the train and got short with you about it. So brush it off and move on.



haolerider said:


> They don't want to quit, because they have a good thing going - good pay - little if any supervision - long hours, but lots of time off - good benefits and good retirement - - - - so what would make them want to quit? They also get very good protection from their union. You have to do something extremely serious to get fired and even then, you might get brought back by the union and a management that chooses not to fight to keep the non-preformers off the employment rolls. All in all, a pretty pathetic way to run a company.


Sure, blame it on the Union. When an employee does well, I want that credited to the Union. Otherwise, the free-for-all at-will favoritism employment scheme used by many companies creates more disgruntled employees that union-shops ever will. Lay off the talking points.



Steve4031 said:


> Maybe the employee could have been nicer. Asking the customer to be familiar with the schedule is asking a lot.


Sarcasm. Love it. Passengers should know their stop and time. I can only imagine if this was a 0330 arrival and he had to be awaken from a sleeper because "no one told me we were there"



rrdude said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > .............. From a passenger standpoint, I would suggest in the future that *you make yourself more familiar* with the operation of the train and the running times. Study the schedule in advance and that should make you aware that the previous stop was Baltimore and in an hour or so the next station stop would be yours in Wilmington. Happy travels.
> ...


Uh, YES. I think it is only common sense to (1) know when you train departs, (2) know when you train arrives, and (3) know how to read a watch.


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## dlagrua (Feb 15, 2010)

Overall we have experienced decent treatment by Amtrak onboard personnel but once we encountered a sleeping car porter who could care less about being accomodating. He was a lazy disinterested person who just did the bare minimum so after he put the beds down, we raided the linen closet downstairs and took what we needed for our bathing comfort which was just two additional towels. Most of the time we have met with helpful and cheerful Amtrak employees but there is a bad apple in every bunch.


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## PetalumaLoco (Feb 15, 2010)

haolerider said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > if they hate there job so much why don't they quit or are they not allowed to quit. all you can do is take names and report. if enough reports against a certain employee are received then that person might get written up or dismissed.
> ...



We have to keep reviewing the union situation, people keep making stuff up.

Quoting post # 207461



> Sorry, but you are wrong. I've been with Amtrak now for only 4 years. I have seen no less than around 15 OBS employees fired for various reasons. It's not impossible to fire union employees it simply must follow the rules and guidelines laid out to do so. Employees must be trained counseled and warned. Then discipline must be progressive and consistent with other disciplinary actions. As well there are time limits. If Amtrak management does it's job, documents and follows up then problem employees who have repeat offenses are fired and no amount of union involvement will get them un-fired.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Feb 15, 2010)

I still think it is plausable that, as I said earlier, he did know what time his stop came up.

But that he was not prepared for the early operation which sometimes happens in the "discharge only" zones.


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## Karl1459 (Feb 15, 2010)

I think that the conductor or car attendant should have reminded each passenger of their upcoming stop, I know on each of the trains I have had an intermediate stop I was reminded.

On the trips I have taken Amtrak staff has been seldom less than good, ocasionally great (Including one 2 hour late departure, CS wait, from LAX to ANA where the engineer allowed 4 kids to SAFELY share time with him in the cab car and take turns blowing the horn).

While the Union may be part of the problem in some areas with less than stellar service it will take strong leadership to bring Amtrak to uniformly great service. This leadership could come from within the Union, management, or even external (that means US!). Most likely to be sustained it will have to be from within the Union as management tends to have a more rapid turnover and be concerned with non direct service issues (budgets and making sure their is toilet paper available, etc). "We are ALWAYS polite and responsive on MY train" could easily become the mission of every Amtrak personal who deals with a passenger. This would be a clear long range benefit for both Amtrak and their unions as happy campers tell friends to ride trains, increasing ridership, and demand for additional services and funding in addition to the personal rewards of pride in providing truly great service. Would Amtrak have gotten as much stimilus money if Vice President Biden had dealt with a surly conductor each and every trip while he was a Senator. I think not.

Amtrak management and human resources has the opportunity in todays economic times to pick and choose those who have the leadership ability and people skills to create a great enviroment from the ground up.


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## MikeM (Feb 15, 2010)

Karl1459 said:


> I think that the conductor or car attendant should have reminded each passenger of their upcoming stop, I know on each of the trains I have had an intermediate stop I was reminded.


Karl reminded me of my favorite Amtrak nightmare story. One time, the wife and I, and our two kids took the train from Hutchinson KS to Chicago and back. On the return leg, the train arrives into Hutchinson in the middle of the night. Anyhow, I'd mentioned to the car attendant three times that we were getting off at Hutchinson, and could someone wake us in Newton so we could have time to pack up and everything? Sure, no problem, the crew will handle it, happens all the time.

So, in the middle of a nice dream, I hear wild banging on the door of my economy sleeper. It's my wife, telling me that we are about to stop in Hutchinson. About, as in, we were in the Hutchinson yard and would stop in four minutes. We were in two economy bedrooms across from one another. So we're frantically jumping into clothes, my wife tucks her pajama's into pants, we shove suitcases closed, the conductor is yelling hurry and grabbing bags.... so we get off the train, dazed and confused.

:blink: So we get off, turn around and see the train starting off into the distance. Sally has a flannel pajama top half tucked into her jeans, I have a cowlick that makes me look like bad Elvis, my son's glasses are on crooked, and my daughter has her shoes on the wrong feet. We look around, it's the middle of the night, and we're the only souls awake at that time that we can see. I think it was this trip that Sally decided that I could ride the train alone in the future, while she'd fly and not have to speed dress.

But in any case, we still get a good laugh out of this experience, and Sally frequently reminds me of this incident whenever I go on too much about the luxury of rail travel and how relaxing it is...


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## PaulM (Feb 15, 2010)

The introduction from a recent travelogue entitled *A Lab Experiment*.



PaulM said:


> You can't hang around the AU forum very long without noticing frequent threads that deal with complaints - long, unexplained delays, poor customer service, etc.. These always degenerate into two camps: those who say that a real business wouldn't get away with that, and those who say “You just don't understand” and besides your are a cry baby if you complain.
> In my opinion, a much more important question is the frequently of these events; i.e., are you likely to experience such a problem; or are they rare events. A recent 2 ½ month, 8 train trip provided some help in answering the question. Although a statistician would call a sample of size 8 a small sample, nevertheless some conclusions can be drawn: sort of like a lab experiment.


If you want the results of the experiment, you will have to go to post #10 of

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?showtopic=30951

I also developed the "Ma & Pa Kettle" theory of Amtrak. It may apply here; but it still doesn't justify rudeness.


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## greatcats (Feb 15, 2010)

Ryan said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > So now the passengers have to "educate themselves"?
> ...



Thanks, rRan. You elaborated on my point well. I'm not saying the train crew was good or bad or that the OP is a dummy. But, as on all forms of transportation, it pays to be aware of the surroundings. Recently, I travelled by train in Japan, which overall was excellent. But on some trains away from the Shinkansen ( Bullet ) Lines, such as on southern Kyushu, there were no train announcements in English. The Japanese announcement, except for an occasionalo word, is unintelligible. So I had to keep my wits about me and observe the signage entering stations, which if I recall, had small letters in English. ( except some very rural minor stops. ) If I had not been paying attention, I might have been carried past my stop. ( I did manage to get on the Green Yamanoto Line in Tokyo in the wrong direction, and decided to relax and make a loop around the city! )


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 15, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> Overall we have experienced decent treatment by Amtrak onboard personnel but once we encountered a sleeping car porter who could care less about being accomodating. He was a lazy disinterested person who just did the bare minimum so after he put the beds down,


They arent called porters anymore, perhaps this person took offense @ that!  There are lazy employees in every field, hope you reported this one to Amtrak CR, and for future reference the correct title is: SCA (Sleeping Car Attendant). Also unless their actual name is George do not call them George!


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## kyakusan (Feb 16, 2010)

greatcats said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > rrdude said:
> ...


Unless of course you speak Nihongo!

As someone who studied and lived in Japan for several years, the railroads there do an outstanding job of posting all station signs with English, even in Southern Kyushu, where I traveled numerous times.

But if you don't understand Japanese, you should never venture beyond the bullet trains or metro subway/commuter rail systems without thorough advance guidance!

On the other hand, imagine a non-English-speaking Japanese trying to navigate Amtrak! Hell, even English-speaking passengers can often fail to understand the train announcements!


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## amtrakwolverine (Feb 16, 2010)

i wonder if the person who built the car PA also built the ones used at fast food drive up windows. both are hard to understand.


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## GG-1 (Feb 16, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> i wonder if the person who built the car PA also built the ones used at fast food drive up windows. both are hard to understand.


I don't know about who built the PA system, but some times the anouncers remind me of the "singer" Mrs Miller. I suspect anyone under 40 has never heard of her, but the rewiews of her singing suggested she sang with marbles in her mouth.


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## PetalumaLoco (Feb 16, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > i wonder if the person who built the car PA also built the ones used at fast food drive up windows. both are hard to understand.
> ...


Huh, I don't recall her at all (waaay over 40 here).


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## GG-1 (Feb 16, 2010)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Huh, I don't recall her at all (waaay over 40 here).


Aloha

That was fun, Mahalo for the link to the tribute.


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## Ryan (Feb 16, 2010)

jimhudson said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > Overall we have experienced decent treatment by Amtrak onboard personnel but once we encountered a sleeping car porter who could care less about being accomodating. He was a lazy disinterested person who just did the bare minimum so after he put the beds down,
> ...


I thought that an Amtrak employee posted here that the correct title was Train Attendant Sleeper (TAS) and Train Attendant Coach (TAC) for the folks in coach.


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## rrdude (Feb 16, 2010)

Ryan said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > So now the passengers have to "educate themselves"?
> ...


Ryan, I'm right there with you, do the same things, and as OP said, "....like the intracacies of timetables, knowing where you are, etc., etc.

But IF Amtrak is EVER going to crack the market, and get the general public ENJOYING their ride, looking FORWARD to their trip, and talking POSITIVELY about their experience, things must change.

I'll grant you that John Q. Public, is nominally aware of his next stop, or layover, be it a multi-plane trip, the Dog, or Amtrak. But what about the teenager, the hard of hearing, etc.? I guess I could make exceptions for many more types of travelers, and no carrier is gonna be perfect. But Amtrak can and SHOULD get better, that's my main point.


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## rrdude (Feb 16, 2010)

daveyb99 said:


> I am on the other side of this one, sorry. And NO, I am not 'defending AMTRAK' or any of the such.
> *So brush it off and move on. "**Sure, next time they spit in your eye, or call you an a**hole, just "brush that off" too! *
> 
> *C*U*S*T*O*M*E*R* S*E*R*V*I*C*E. You would actually tolerate the type of service the OP had? *
> ...


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## Steve4031 (Feb 16, 2010)

To be fair to John Q Public, my girl friend once handled a fairly complex connection to get back to Chicago under stressfull situations. Her father lived in NYC and we in Chicago. Her father was diagnosed with lung cancer, and she needed to get to NYC. She had purchased a ticket for her father to come to Chicago. So the first step was to convert that ticket so she could use it. I helped her with that, and booked her in coach on 48. Sleepers were outside the budget.

I printed a list a tips to help her with her trip. She is a fresh air person, and I knew from experience that the air on the train would annoy her. So I printed out a list of the stops f where 48 made smoking stops so she could get off and get fresh air. And printed a yahoo map so she could get to Brooklyn by cab. Subways were out of the question. LOL.

Despite an 8 hour delay, she got to NYP ok, and the cab ride worked fine. Her father was somehwat surprised to see her, and after only a day or so, she had a need to get back to Chicago. For her return trip, i she was again on 49. She did not want to wait that long, so she took the initiative to go to the station early.

I don't think she even looked at my info, but she showed up at NYP around 8 pm. The ticket agent booked her on 67 to PHL, and then on the Pennsylvanian to Chicago. I did not even tell her of this option, but she got the info on her own, and negotiated the change in PHL on her own with no problem. I was surprised to get a call to pick her up almost 24 hours early. So people can use Amtrak, and do complicated connectons when they know absolutely nothing about it. LOL. I told her she was now an honary rail fan after this trip.


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## had8ley (Feb 18, 2010)

Even though my suit of armor is melting I'll add but one gallon of hi-test~ This event happened on the NEC; not known for the friendliest crews on the entire Amtrak system. I'll re-tell an incident that I personally witnessed on a NE Regional some time ago. A mugger was taking advantage of a poor gentleman on the platform at Bridgeport, CT I found the conductor and tried to get him to radio for help. His reply? "Hey buddy, I've got a train to run." As far as I know it ended right there. Nice guy


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## rrdude (Feb 18, 2010)

had8ley said:


> Even though my suit of armor is melting I'll add but one gallon of hi-test~ This event happened on the NEC; not known for the friendliest crews on the entire Amtrak system. I'll re-tell an incident that I personally witnessed on a NE Regional some time ago. A mugger was taking advantage of a poor gentleman on the platform at Bridgeport, CT I found the conductor and tried to get him to radio for help. His reply? "Hey buddy, I've got a train to run." As far as I know it ended right there. Nice guy


Reading something like that makes me sooooooo Pi**ed off, I can't even reply............ :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:


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## daveyb99 (Feb 18, 2010)

rrdude said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Even though my suit of armor is melting I'll add but one gallon of hi-test~ This event happened on the NEC; not known for the friendliest crews on the entire Amtrak system. I'll re-tell an incident that I personally witnessed on a NE Regional some time ago. A mugger was taking advantage of a poor gentleman on the platform at Bridgeport, CT I found the conductor and tried to get him to radio for help. His reply? "Hey buddy, I've got a train to run." As far as I know it ended right there. Nice guy
> ...


I agree. Why didnt had8ley intervene. I mean, this is a felony in progress.

I wonder if the conductor had radio-ed for help, how long before the dispatcher got ahold of a law enforcement agency (either AMTRAK or local police) and they responded.

All while had8ley stood there and watched, working on a complaint on the NEC, where the crews are not known for being friendly

Too mean? or did I melt the armor......


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## Steve4031 (Feb 18, 2010)

Probably the fastest way to get a response is to use a cell phone to call 911. Taking a physical action to intervene is a mugging is one of personal choice. It could be potentially fatal if the mugger has a weapon.


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## krdiz (Mar 6, 2010)

:angry: I am writing to express my deep disappointment with the conductors on the March 4th, 2010, 304 Lincoln Service train from St. Louis to Joliet.

I have been riding Amtrak, from Joliet to St. Louis, back and forth, for over six years now and have never been treated so shabbily on one of their trains before.

I should have known my trip back to Joliet wasn't going to be a good one when I arrived on the platform ten minutes before departure and there wasn't a conductor in sight to tell me where to board. This has never happened before. After waiting a couple of minutes on the platform between two trains, an Amtrak employee driving a service cart appeared and I had to ask her which train was my train to Joliet and where to board that train. She indicated which was the Chicago bound train and that I should board at the front of the train, which I did.

The first car was rather full so I moved on to the next car and took a seat. After the train pulled out of the station a conductor finally appeared and asked how I had ended up where I was. I told him no one was around to tell me where to go when I boarded and I gave him my ticket. After looking at my ticket he told me I would have to move two cars back and I told him that would be no problem. He tore the stub off my ticket, handed it back to me and walked away. I shoved my stub back in my purse gathered my belongings and moved back to the last car.

After relocating to the correct car and settling in the conductor returned and asked for my ticket. I told him he had taken my ticket back in the other car. He told me he would never have done that.

So I began to panic. I looked through my purse twice while he stood there reiterating that he would never take a ticket until he was ready to cancel it and he told me if I didn’t believe this, I could just ask the two young passengers who had entered the car at the same time he did that this was the case. This, of course, embarrassed me as these two young men were now drawn into this debate as unwilling spectators.

I told the conductor once again that I was sure he had taken my ticket in the other car and he insisted once more that he had not.

While still looking through my purse, yet again, I told him I did not have the ticket. And he said, "Well you'll just have to buy a ticket." I told him, "Oh, no I will not, Sir!" At which time he said, "Well, you'll be put off the train in Alton, then!"

A second conductor appeared and stood there for the rest of the argument.

I told the original conductor once more that I had already bought my ticket and that he had taken it, during which time I found my stub in my purse. I showed it to him and said, "Look, this is all you gave back to me."

He said, "Oh no, that stub isn't canceled. I would never have given that back to you un-canceled. I will look through the tickets I have here, but I know yours is not here." And so he quickly flipped through the tickets and announced that my ticket wasn't there. I said, "Then how do you explain this stub, Sir?" and he replied, that the stub didn't matter as it wasn't canceled.

I again told him that he had my ticket and he said it wasn't in his stack but I was welcome to look through his stack of tickets if I thought he was wrong. I told him, "I would very much like to do that." I took the stack of tickets from him and in a matter of seconds I had found my ticket and said, "Oh, gee look! Here I am, Sir! I think you owe me an apology!” All he said in return was, "I need your stub." Naturally, I had put the stub back in my purse and had to dig it out yet again. I handed him the stub, he took it, said a curt and insincere, "I apologize", and both conductors walked away without a further word.

I feel I was treated as if the situation had been my fault or as if I had been trying to scam them and that any other kind of apology wasn’t warranted.

My usually pleasant train ride was ruined by conductors who couldn't even admit they had made a mistake and who had no kind of concern for me as a customer or human being.

I rely on Amtrak to get me back and forth from my daughter’s home in the St. Louis area, but I'll think twice about taking the 304 again!

I was extremely embarrassed, frazzled and emotionally distressed. I don't like confrontation, but there was no way I was going to back down when I knew I was right. Intimidation does not rank as good customer service last time I checked!


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 6, 2010)

Please contact Customer Relations, (1-800-USA-RAIL) ask "Julie" for an agent, when the agent comes on ask for a Customer Relations agent and let them know about this unacceptable behaviour/service by that so called conductor!

Have all the info you can ready (Date/Train #/Tiket or Res z#, if you know the jerks name that too! If not theyll still have the info and will follow up for certain! )As in all businesses and agencies there are orges and power trippers but we all pretty much agree that if we all report these bad apples we can improve Amtrak for everyone and perhaps change the bad actors behaviour or else help them find a new profession, perhaps trash man or sewer plant operator, not customer service and safety! Hope you get a voucher, you deserve one!


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## krdiz (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks Jim, I will do that. I am glad that you agree that this was very bad behavior from someone in the service industry. I was hoping that I wasn't over reacting to what had happened. It's a day and a half after the incident and I'm still very irked about it! Thanks again.



jimhudson said:


> Please contact Customer Relations, (1-800-USA-RAIL) ask "Julie" for an agent, when the agent comes on ask for a Customer Relations agent and let them know about this unacceptable behaviour/service by that so called conductor!
> Have all the info you can ready (Date/Train #/Tiket or Res z#, if you know the jerks name that too! If not theyll still have the info and will follow up for certain! )As in all businesses and agencies there are orges and power trippers but we all pretty much agree that if we all report these bad apples we can improve Amtrak for everyone and perhaps change the bad actors behaviour or else help them find a new profession, perhaps trash man or sewer plant operator, not customer service and safety! Hope you get a voucher, you deserve one!


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## jmbgeg (Mar 6, 2010)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all
> I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.
> 
> During other stops, the conductor (or other Amtrak employee), would announce the stop so everyone could clearly hear on the train, even near the front of the car where I was sitting, because it was hard to hear the usual arrival announcements. When we arrived in Wilmington, I couldn't make out the usual announcement over the PA and the conductor did not repeat that we had arrived in Wilmington. I almost missed my stop and I guess the conductor was not pleased that he had to direct me all the way to the back of the train so I that could step off the train. I was not rude, I simply told him that you can not hear the announcement clearly from where I was sitting and that they should somehow fix the problem, so more people don't miss their stops, but it seemed like he didn't care...
> ...


Put in in context. I may not have been pleased, but that passes the next day. If the Conductor thought he made a proper announcement and you did not detrain, he was probably frustrated. You might have been in his shoes. In your shoes, he might have been offended. I travel 2-3 times per year Bakersfield-Las Vegas on an Amtrak California bus. Eastbond or westbound, I often get a specific driver who is very abrupt in explaining the bus rules and non-talkative after. I take no offense and until I see him again, forget all about it.


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## had8ley (Mar 7, 2010)

daveyb99 said:


> rrdude said:
> 
> 
> > had8ley said:
> ...


Well there's not a whole lot you can do while pulling out of the station. If I pulled the air and stopped the train I would be in more trouble than the mugger !!! This was before every 6 year old had a cell phone in their back pockets so I was totally at the mercy of a jerk... :angry: :angry: :angry:


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## TheCrescent (May 15, 2022)

Why does Amtrak seem to have a larger portion of rude employees than (in my experience) American Airlines and (definitely) Brightline?

The Brightline employees I met were very helpful; they even line up and wave to trains as the trains leave stations.

Were pre-Amtrak railroads as rude as Amtrak?

It must be a management issue: if senior management wanted Amtrak employees to be as cheerful and helpful as AA or Brightline, surely that could be done.


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## Dakota 400 (May 15, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Were pre-Amtrak railroads as rude as Amtrak?



I rode on PRR, NYC, and C&NW trains pre-Amtrak and I have nothing but pleasant memories of the personnel whom I met. 

Most Amtrak staff whom I have encountered have ranged along a Bell Curve. None have been so unpleasant that I specifically remember them. I recall several who were friendly, helpful, and efficient. I recall a small number who barely did their jobs and nothing else. 

Unfortunately, in today's society, some Amtrak employees reflect some members of our society. Why would anyone expect anything different?


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## Sidney (May 15, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> I rode on PRR, NYC, and C&NW trains pre-Amtrak and I have nothing but pleasant memories of the personnel whom I met.
> 
> Most Amtrak staff whom I have encountered have ranged along a Bell Curve. None have been so unpleasant that I specifically remember them. I recall several who were friendly, helpful, and efficient. I recall a small number who barely did their jobs and nothing else.
> 
> Unfortunately, in today's society, some Amtrak employees reflect some members of our society. Why would anyone expect anything different?


I had one of the surliest SCA's on the Crescent last November. He reminded me of a drill sargent. He scowled when I asked him to put down the bed and grumbled anytime I would ask him anything. Needless to say,he made the trip I paid quite a bit for uncomfortable. No tip whatsoever.


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## TheCrescent (May 15, 2022)

Dakota 400 said:


> Unfortunately, in today's society, some Amtrak employees reflect some members of our society. Why would anyone expect anything different?



Well, (1) at work we have to act in ways that we wouldn’t act outside of work (for example, in my job, criticizing a client even to other colleagues is a huge no-no) and (2) I think there are more crabby people among Amtrak staff than there are in society generally.


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## Bob Dylan (May 15, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Why does Amtrak seem to have a larger portion of rude employees than (in my experience) American Airlines and (definitely) Brightline?
> 
> The Brightline employees I met were very helpful; they even line up and wave to trains as the trains leave stations.
> 
> ...


When RRs were attempting their Train offs back in the 60s, the good Ole EssPee was Infamous for their rude OBS, especially on the Sunset Route, as they downgraded the Crack Sunset Ltd. to Greyhound Status before the Feds forced them to return Diners and Sleepers to the Sunsets Consist.

I also ran into lots of rude and uncaring Employess on the PRR when I moved to Washington DC and started riding on the NEC regularly between WAS and NYP.

The Best IMO were The Southern and The Santa Fe, which continued to run their LD Trains with Pride till they joined Amtrak.


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## Rasputin (May 15, 2022)

I rode a number of trains prior to Amtrak (and prior to VIA) including Penn Central, New Haven, Milwaukee Road, Burlington Northern, CP, CN, GTW and received nothing but very good service. I was never been bossed around, lectured, or spoken to in a condescending manner as if I was a five year old. (as I have been at times on Amtrak). I had a problem with Penn Central reservations once but that had nothing to do with on board service.

Even today I receive very good service at many retail stores, so I don't believe it is a sign of the times, just a sign of poor corporate culture or perhaps no culture.

I have encountered some excellent Amtrak and VIA employees but I feel that the idea that Amtrak and VIA are God's gift to passenger rail 
is a bit exaggerated.


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## GAT (May 15, 2022)

When boarding #1 in New Iberia a couple of weeks ago, and being the only passenger to do so, I had positioned myself and bags way too far forward on the platform. I guess I wanted to make sure the engineer saw me. Anyway, the conductor signaled the stop so that I had to hoof it back with my bags about 30-40 yards on uneven and cracked concrete. But my SCA ran up the platform towards me, yelling, “Take it easy, we won’t leave without you.” He grabbed my two bags and carried them back to my car and helped me on board with a cheery welcome and directions on how to get to my correct bedroom, which he already knew I would be occupying.

The conductor also smiled but didn’t say anything about stopping so far back.

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I don’t recall ever being treated rudely or badly since I started riding Amtrak LD trains in 2006. Sometimes an OBS has displayed a little indifference, but nothing disrespectful or rude.

But then, this is only my experience. However, in all service industry positions, I expect that the happier the camper, the better service she/he will provide. So maybe Amtrak needs to start treating its employees better.

(By the way, I realized for the first time that standing maybe only six feet away from the tracks and looking up at this huge tall mass of steel and chugging noise bearing down on you can be a little intimidating! )


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## Joe from PA (May 16, 2022)

I've been lucky over the years. Red Caps have been, for the most part, "above and beyond". Room attendants good, with 3 outstanding. Dining car OK. This was 7 overnight trips in roomettes. Silver, Crescent, and Sunset Limited. I give generous tips.


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## Amtrak709 (May 16, 2022)

I have always tried to preference my remarks with "in my opinion" and that is just what this is. Although I have about 300,00 miles on the passenger trains, my significant travels did not start until my college days in Virginia in 1965--just a few years before Amtrak. For the last 51 years I have heard the remarks that Amtrak is not like railroads "used to be". Agreed: but if you love the passenger trains, Amtrak is all we've got. I will say this (even considering my relatively short time travelling rails before Amtrak in 1971): Every railroad employee in my early history of riding--from the T&E crew to dining car stewards to dining car wait staff to coach attendants to sleeping car attendants to etc.--always seemed (and may have stated) they were *PROUD* to be railroad employees. That attitude of being "God's gift to passenger rail" did not seem to exist. I think that attitude of pride was evident and what, in my opinion, has somewhat drifted away in the last 50+ years.


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## PaunchyPirate (May 16, 2022)

I think that for just about every rude customer service person that I see in action, I have seen an equal number of rude and obnoxious customers treating a customer service person like dirt. Not always at the same time and place, but it's a 2-way street out there.


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## cirdan (May 16, 2022)

AMTRAK709 said:


> I have always tried to preference my remarks with "in my opinion" and that is just what this is. Although I have about 300,00 miles on the passenger trains, my significant travels did not start until my college days in Virginia in 1965--just a few years before Amtrak. For the last 51 years I have heard the remarks that Amtrak is not like railroads "used to be". Agreed: but if you love the passenger trains, Amtrak is all we've got. I will say this (even considering my relatively short time travelling rails before Amtrak in 1971): Every railroad employee in my early history of riding--from the T&E crew to dining car stewards to dining car wait staff to coach attendants to sleeping car attendants to etc.--always seemed (and may have stated) they were *PROUD* to be railroad employees. That attitude of being "God's gift to passenger rail" did not seem to exist. I think that attitude of pride was evident and what, in my opinion, has somewhat drifted away in the last 50+ years.



I understand and agree with what you are saying.

But I think it is maybe unfair to single out Amtrak. Many areas and especially the hospitality industry have seen a gradual shift from employing people for life and making them part of the family, which meant that in return these people were sometimes willing to lay down their lives for the company, to employing schoolkids and whoever they could get for the minimal wage. Amtrak has weathered this erosion surprisingly well, but many other areas are far worse, ranging from hotels to restaurants to shop attendants, where you often wonder why the owners and managers don't care or make more effort to get more motivated employees. Many services that are these days being praised as hallmarks of high end luxury hotels would 40 years ago have been standard to any mom and pop hotel.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 16, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Why does Amtrak seem to have a larger portion of rude employees than (in my experience) American Airlines and (definitely) Brightline?


I've flown many AA flights and most of my good experiences involved regional carriers with green staff pretending to be AA. I've found AA staff are often indifferent to my needs and can be easily offended or obnoxiously bossy. Sometimes they charge me for drinks that should be free and other times they threaten me with arrest for taking a photo of the moving map display. In a similar vein many of my best experiences on Amtrak involved newly hired staff that may have made a few mistakes but at least _wanted_ to provide good service. Something seems to happen on the way to seniority that changes people. On most trips I barely interact with mainline AA staff but if you put them in charge of a long train trip then the experience would likely be similar or maybe even worse than Amtrak.



TheCrescent said:


> It must be a management issue: if senior management wanted Amtrak employees to be as cheerful and helpful as [...] Brightline, surely that could be done.


I have wondered about this for a long time and although I may not agree with everything stated in the following video it did give me some answers to consider.


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## Bonser (May 16, 2022)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all
> 
> I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.
> 
> ...


How was the conductor rude? The two examples you cite don't seem to warrant a complaint by you of the employees but maybe I'm missing something. The PA system is often inaudible.


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## Manny T (May 16, 2022)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all...I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak?...
> 
> Has anyone else had this kind of problem before? Just curious.



So to answer the OP's question, yes, I have encountered some rude employees on Amtrak, along with many many fine, outstanding, warm and personable employees. The rude employees definitely diminish my enjoyment of the trip, and I try to work around them, keeping my distance to the extent possible and handling things myself. On your first Amtrak trip, this might be more difficult; for a more seasoned traveler, it would be easier.

Some have said you should travel with "increased awareness of surroundings." Great idea. But the fact is, a public carrier is tasked with providing service to the general public, and this includes all manner of people with various degrees of ability. Nothing is more basic than providing a clear on-board announcement of the next stop -- which it appears was not given in your case. Some people follow each mile of their journey and know exactly where they are at all times; others are completely oblivious and either day-dreaming, listening to music or otherwise in la-la land the whole time. Who's to say what is the right way to travel? We each select our own path in life.

To return to your question, while rude employees are encountered on Amtrak, they are not the norm. I would regard your encounter with one as an annoyance and I would not base a decision to ditch future Amtrak travel on this one instance.


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## MARC Rider (May 16, 2022)

I once had a conductor who kicked me off a Northeast Regional because I had an unreserved ticket and it was during the period when they were switching over from unreserved to all-reserved. I thought he was pretty nasty in the way he did it, plus it was sort of ridiculous, because the unreserved ticket was the same price as the reserved ticket (so it wasn't like I was cheating Amtrak out of any money), and it was only to Baltimore (from Washington), so there were definitely empty seats, and it wasn't like I was depriving a ticket passenger of a seat. He should have just politely told me that the trains were going to be all reserved moving forward, and then let me continue my journey.

There was another conductor on the Silver Star who was a bit of a bossy drill sergeant type. He got into some kind of argument with a coach passenger who was disappointed that he couldn't get a dinner reservation, and before we knew it the train came to a screeching halt in Southside Virginia, somewhere between Petersburg and Rocky Mount, and this guy and his family were shuffled off the train into a waiting police car.

That was about it for me for rude Amtrak employees. There have been a few dining car waiters that seemed to forget I existed when I wanted to settle my check (I had purchased some wine with dinner) and leave, but that happens everywhere, it even happened to me just a couple of days ago at a restaurant near me.


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## Rasputin (May 16, 2022)

There does not appear to be any obvious scheme or arrangement for on-board management or at least one that seems to work.


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## Amtrak709 (May 16, 2022)

Do you remember the short-lived days of the Chief of Onboard Services?--at least they were on the Silver Service trains when I lived in Florida in the 1980's and 1990's. Do you think this concept is appropriate for onboard supervision and management of staff? There is certainly a cost associated with this concept which is probably the driving force preventing such.


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## Amtrak709 (May 16, 2022)

AMTRAK709 said:


> Do you remember the short-lived days of the Chief of Onboard Services?--at least they were on the Silver Service trains when I lived in Florida in the 1980's and 1990's. Do you think this concept is appropriate for onboard supervision and management of staff? There is certainly a cost associated with this concept which is probably the driving force preventing such.


I think I just remembered the answer to my own inquiry about the Chief of Onboard Services from the 1980-90's. They were sort stuck in between the T&E crew and the OBS crew; had little or no authority; and were universally disliked by all crew.


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## Brian Battuello (May 16, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> The good Ole EssPee was Infamous for their rude OBS, especially on the Sunset Route, as they downgraded the Crack Sunset Ltd. to Greyhound Status before the Feds forced them to return Diners and Sleepers to the Sunsets Consist.



You had to remind me of a Phoenix to Los Angeles run on that train. First and last time I saw Automat food dispensers on a train. It was obvious they were desperate to get out of the business. My father switched to PSA, where the service was a bit different.


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## Bob Dylan (May 16, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> You had to remind me of a Phoenix to Los Angeles run on that train. First and last time I saw Automat food dispensers on a train. It was obvious they were desperate to get out of the business. My father switched to PSA, where the service was a bit different.
> 
> View attachment 28423


Remember when "Flying Colors"was all the rage? Braniff especially was noted for their Wild Colors( including the Planes) and once Amtrak came along in 1971 the Uniforms and the Rainbow Consists continued this theme


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## PaTrainFan (May 16, 2022)

Years ago my son and I had an unfortunate experience on a much-delayed Califronia Zephyr that put us 12 hours behind. Our sleeping car attendant was simply outstanding in every respect. He was personable, engaging, helpful, sincerely emphathetic about the situation and all this while himself being highly stressed. When I told him I was going to write Amtrak to provide kudos for his service, he expressed gratitude but said pointedly it wouldn't likely do any good and he wouldn't hear about it. He then described Amtrak as a "toxic work environment" and couldn't wait to retire. So if this is an accurate description from someone I viewed as highly motivated, imagine how it affects those with worse attitudes out of the gate.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 16, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Years ago my son and I had an unfortunate experience on a much-delayed Califronia Zephyr that put us 12 hours behind. Our sleeping car attendant was simply outstanding in every respect. He was personable, engaging, helpful, sincerely emphathetic about the situation and all this while himself being highly stressed. When I told him I was going to write Amtrak to provide kudos for his service, he expressed gratitude but said pointedly it wouldn't likely do any good and he wouldn't hear about it. He then described Amtrak as a "toxic work environment" and couldn't wait to retire. So if this is an accurate description from someone I viewed as highly motivated, imagine how it affects those with worse attitudes out of the gate.


What a disaster! Hopefully it’s not quite as bad as this sounds but it does indicate that at a minimum the staff do not see much in the way of recognition for going above and beyond mediocre service. Rewarding employees for great service should not only be possible but highly encouraged. What a sad state of affairs.


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## williamn (May 16, 2022)

I used to take the Maple Leaf a few times a year when I lived in Toronto. The difference between Amtrak and VIA crews on the same train was always like night and day. Amtrak crews seemed to regard passengers as an annoyance, and spent most of the journey taking up the majority of the cafe car. VIA crews on the other hand were a delight and were far more customer orientated.


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## Charles785 (May 16, 2022)

I've wondered the same thing that The Crescent (above) was wondering. In my experiences the rude Amtrak employees I'm remembering were in the dining cars. And I don't travel that often - maybe 15 trips in the last 20 years. Maybe on a third of those trips I've encountered a waiter who, at best, seemed disinterested, or, at worst, abrupt and a bit on the rude side.

In any event, it was obvious those folks didn't belong in the customer service business. (And I wondered why they were in it in the first place)

Now, compared to the number of those Amtrak trips, I will probably eat in a restaurant at least once a week - and have for the last 20 years - from sit-down casual, to fast-food restaurants, to fine dining. And I'm having trouble remembering unpleasant restaurant employees.

So, what's the difference? My guess is that since restaurant wait staff employees are not unionized they have more of an incentive to be on their best behavior at all times because they know there's no third party who's going to defend them even if they're grumpy and giving lousy service.

Amtrak waiters are unionized - and I have a suspicion their labor union couldn't care less if their waiter- members have an aptitude for pleasant customer service or not. And it's probably much more difficult to fire a unionized malcontent anyway.

There could be other reasons too, but when I think of any differences between the restaurant industry and Amtrak, unionized labor comes to my mind.


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## zephyr17 (May 16, 2022)

VIA OBS crews are unionized and service on VIA is much more consistent and much better than Amtrak. VIA's unionized OBS crews are very customer service oriented.

If Amtrak management actually prioritized customer service excellence and instituted metrics to measure it (post ride surveys, etc) and made improving those metrics part of mangers' performance reviews at all levels, we might get somewhere.

Disciplinary procedures are more exacting with an organized labor force, but are still there. Disciplinary procedures can be negotiated with unions, if a customer focused management team finds issues with the current ones. Give a little, get a little.

Given VIA's counter example, I think just calling a unionized workforce out as the problem really does not address anything or provide a route to improvement. At the end of the day, it is a management responsibility and a management problem. If executive management actually made a focused and consistent effort to measure and improve customer service, we might get somewhere.


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## Rasputin (May 16, 2022)

My understanding is that VIA has customer service managers on its long distance trains who are in charge of on board services. Conductors were eliminated from VIA trains some years ago so the only operating personnel are the locomotive crews.


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## zephyr17 (May 16, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> My understanding is that VIA has customer service managers on its long distance trains who are in charge of on board services. Conductors were eliminated from VIA trains some years ago so the only operating personnel are the locomotive crews.


That is true. Actual managers being onboard is probably one of the factors in VIA's better and more consistent customer service.

Every train has an SM, not just the long distance ones, btw.


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## Willbridge (May 17, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> When RRs were attempting their Train offs back in the 60s, the good Ole EssPee was Infamous for their rude OBS, especially on the Sunset Route, as they downgraded the Crack Sunset Ltd. to Greyhound Status before the Feds forced them to return Diners and Sleepers to the Sunsets Consist.
> 
> I also ran into lots of rude and uncaring Employees on the PRR when I moved to Washington DC and started riding on the NEC regularly between WAS and NYP.
> 
> The Best IMO were The Southern and The Santa Fe, which continued to run their LD Trains with Pride till they joined Amtrak.


I second the motion on the "Friendly SP" and on Penn Central. Employees should not have taken their feelings out on the customers. And, I'm sure that it was not every worker being counter-productive. I remember several courtesies by PC employees, all on the NEC.

The lowest point was a three-way overbooked coach seat on the _Cascade _which resulted in OBS and trainmen screaming at each other and the confused customers.

In the Northwest we were fortunate to have the Hill lines. From about 1966 the UP was so-so.


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## billosborn (May 17, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> I've been lucky over the years. Red Caps have been, for the most part, "above and beyond". Room attendants good, with 3 outstanding. Dining car OK. This was 7 overnight trips in roomettes. Silver, Crescent, and Sunset Limited. I give generous tips.


I have a nice Red Cap story - I arrived at LAX Union station on a Surfliner from San Diego. I was going to take the Southwest Chief from there. I was going to be traveling in coach on the SWC, but I had bought a business class seat on the Surfliner just so I could use the Metropolitan Lounge in Los Angeles during my layover. The Lounge is upstairs at Union Station and Red Cap carts come transport passengers down to the train. Even though I wasn't headed for one of the sleepers, I hopped on with the other folks and off we went. When we arrived at the platform, they hadn't yet backed the train in. He asked me what car I was in, and I told him "Car 11'. He said "follow me", and then stopped at a certain spot on the platform. He told me "Stand here". A minute later they backed the train in, and when Car 11 stopped, I was standing directly in front of the door! I tipped him right on the spot..


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## PaTrainFan (May 17, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> What a disaster! Hopefully it’s not quite as bad as this sounds but it does indicate that at a minimum the staff do not see much in the way of recognition for going above and beyond mediocre service. Rewarding employees for great service should not only be possible but highly encouraged. What a sad state of affairs.



It would be interesting to know from the few Amtrak employees who post here if this rings true. Of course it's always possible that this is just a viewpoint of an outlier of one disgruntled Amtrak employee, despite his public face with passengers. Though, frankly, I doubt it.


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## railiner (May 17, 2022)

Amtrak Recognizes Employees for Contributions to Business and Customers - Amtrak Media


America’s Railroad® honored employees with the President’s Service and Safety Awards, the highest recognition given to Amtrak employees. The awards were recently distributed to more than 50 employees during a special ceremony in Washington, D.C.



media.amtrak.com





There’s this, or at least there was…

IIRC, they had some sort of recognition program, beyond the every five years service pin…


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## cassie225 (May 17, 2022)

For me, I have not had a rude person in the diner but it seems the sleeper attendants have changed, not rude just not attentive and maybe they have a lot more work to do. They have been young so maybe so maybe they have not been seasoned yet.


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## TheCrescent (May 17, 2022)

Whatever Amtrak did to get the fantastic staff at the Metropolitan Lounge at Moynihan, Amtrak should repeat throughout the system. They are great!


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## joelkfla (May 17, 2022)

cassie225 said:


> For me, I have not had a rude person in the diner but it seems the sleeper attendants have changed, not rude just not attentive and maybe they have a lot more work to do. They have been young so maybe so maybe they have not been seasoned yet.


I think they used to be responsible for a single sleeper, but now it's usually 1.5 cars or even 2.


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## Amtrak709 (May 17, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I think they used to be responsible for a single sleeper, but now it's usually 1.5 cars or even 2.


joelkfla: I believe this is pretty much the case as has been my recent experiences on the Crescent. As a matter of curiosity, you, I believe, have travelled recently on 91/92 with the five-car sleeper consist. Any comments on the service level there?


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## joelkfla (May 17, 2022)

AMTRAK709 said:


> joelkfla: I believe this is pretty much the case as has been my recent experiences on the Crescent. As a matter of curiosity, you, I believe, have travelled recently on 91/92 with the five-car sleeper consist. Any comments on the service level there?


My last trip was in October, before the Silver Meteor suspension. In fact, I was on the Meteor both ways.

My next trip is scheduled in June, conditioned on COVID not going crazy in Wash. DC by then.


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## Joe from PA (May 17, 2022)

Comparing treatment on trains vs 'planes...I don't give a hoot over 3 hours in the air. 28 hours on a train is a different story.


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## Joe from PA (May 17, 2022)

AMTRAK709 said:


> travelled recently on 91/92 with the five-car sleeper consist. Any comments on the service level there?



We did, on 91, Phila. to Ft. Lauderdale on March 19. Our BIG mistake was trying to use the dining car. Total bedlam with the poor room attendants trying to deliver meals to 5 sleeping cars. We will most likely be flying to Florida next year, and just using Amtrak to get to Boston in 5 hours.


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## Amtrak709 (May 17, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> We did, on 91, Phila. to Ft. Lauderdale on March 19. Our BIG mistake was trying to use the dining car. Total bedlam with the poor room attendants trying to deliver meals to 5 sleeping cars. We will most likely be flying to Florida next year, and just using Amtrak to get to Boston in 5 hours.


JoefromPA: Thanks for that. Your response does NOT surprise me. As a railfan, and as one who is still sad ref the Silver Meteor suspension, there is this natural desire to want to ride a train with the large consist like 91/92 has now: 2-3 locos, 5 sleepers, diner, lounge car, 5-6 coaches, baggage. My concern, however, is the service level in the sleepers. My recent experience on the Crescent with only two sleepers has been marginal at best. Any one else: would love to read yor comments. Thanks!


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## Bonser (May 17, 2022)

williamn said:


> I used to take the Maple Leaf a few times a year when I lived in Toronto. The difference between Amtrak and VIA crews on the same train was always like night and day. Amtrak crews seemed to regard passengers as an annoyance, and spent most of the journey taking up the majority of the cafe car. VIA crews on the other hand were a delight and were far more customer orientated.


I've noticed the difference too. A number of times on the Ocean and on the Corridor Montreal-Quebec run. Outstanding crews.


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## jis (May 17, 2022)

The Super Star has one SCA per car, so total 5 SCAs. However, it has 3 Coach attendants for 5 Coaches normally.

I have traveled four times on the Super Star and had relatively good experience in each. All trips in Roomette. All SCAs have been better than average.

Most still appear to eat in their rooms, but still the Diner was well patronized. At least in my experience those eating in the Diner picked up their food at the counter. For lunch and dinner the SCA took down reservations for a specific time both for eat in and take out to room. Take out to rooms were delivered to the room by the SCA at the appointed time. Eat ins were ready for pick up at the counter at the appointed time. On the whole it seemed to work well within the limits of Flex of course.

On the last round trip there were flowers in vases at each table in the Diner.

I will be traveling by it round trip to New York again around the last weekend of June. I have absolutely no qualms about doing so. Of course reintroduction of traditional dining, hopefully in September with the restoration of two trains will make things much better.


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## Amtrak709 (May 17, 2022)

jis said:


> The Super Star has one SCA per car, so total 5 SCAs. However, it has 3 Coach attendants for 5 Coaches normally.
> 
> I have traveled four times on the Super Star and had relatively good experience in each. All trips in Roomette. All SCAs have been better than average.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments, jis. Still trying to make the decision on boarding station, then maybe same day turnaround to RVR. Considering riding south into FL from SAV to maybe TPA--but the departure and arrivals times in SAV are not real good. By the way, I noticed your location as Space Coast, FL. I lived in Palm Bay from 1979-1982 before moving to Daytona Beach. I don't not think I have been back to Palm Bay since 1982--doubt I would recognize it.


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## Sidney (May 17, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Whatever Amtrak did to get the fantastic staff at the Metropolitan Lounge at Moynihan, Amtrak should repeat throughout the system. They are great!


The Metropolitan Lounge at Moynihan is the crown jewel in the system. If only Chicago,LA,Boston.Philly,DC and Portland could emulate Moynihan. Chicago is the most spacious,but the food and beverage options are average. Only negative about the Moynihan is that you can't board the train directly so if you have a Coach seat you are still on the long line,being they post the track numbers at the same time as the rest of the station does. The food at Moynihan is better than the flex crap you get in a sleeper.


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## Brian Battuello (May 17, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Whatever Amtrak did to get the fantastic staff at the Metropolitan Lounge at Moynihan, Amtrak should repeat throughout the system. They are great!


Completely agree about Moynihan. The staff, at least behind the food counter, are contract. One of them told me their company transferred them from an airport VIP lounge, where they presumably learned how to be nice to people. Have been there twice but looking forward to returning and checking out the new bar. Any reports on the prices? Would be nice to just get a beer to go with the free sandwiches and salads. 

I'm lucky enough to burn coupons on Acela first class upgrades. The free first class Acela food is slightly better than flex, but the unlimited free drinks on board are great!


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## pennyk (May 17, 2022)

I was on the Amtrak Customer Advisory Committee (ACAC), which is no longer in existence, for 5 years. The ACAC awarded Customer Service Awards to Amtrak employees for excellent service. I was pleased to have nominated many employees and to have had the pleasure to present in person some of them with awards. Below are a few photos of some of the ceremonies, often attended by Amtrak Management.


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## TheCrescent (May 17, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Completely agree about Moynihan. The staff, at least behind the food counter, are contract. One of them told me their company transferred them from an airport VIP lounge, where they presumably learned how to be nice to people. Have been there twice but looking forward to returning and checking out the new bar. Any reports on the prices? Would be nice to just get a beer to go with the free sandwiches and salads.
> 
> I'm lucky enough to burn coupons on Acela first class upgrades. The free first class Acela food is slightly better than flex, but the unlimited free drinks on board are great!



Agreed. I got hooked on the Old Fashioneds from the Acela Express and buy them regularly for home use. 

The staff on the noon Acela Express on Saturdays (southbound from NYP) is also fantastic. I rode it twice and then didn’t ride for a month; next time I was on board, the first-class attendant came up and gave me the same drink I had ordered on those two prior rides (a Scotch). Really excellent customer service.


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## Willbridge (May 18, 2022)

Sidney said:


> The Metropolitan Lounge at Moynihan is the crown jewel in the system. If only Chicago,LA,Boston.Philly,DC and Portland could emulate Moynihan. Chicago is the most spacious,but the food and beverage options are average. Only negative about the Moynihan is that you can't board the train directly so if you have a Coach seat you are still on the long line,being they post the track numbers at the same time as the rest of the station does. The food at Moynihan is better than the flex crap you get in a sleeper.


I have been in most corners of Portland Union Station over the years, and I think that providing a more elaborate Metropolitan Lounge might result in losing the short walk to the train.


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## Rasputin (May 18, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> I have been in most corners of Portland Union Station over the years, and I think that providing a more elaborate Metropolitan Lounge might result in losing the short walk to the train.


If it was not for the existence of Powell's Books a modest walk away, I could easily spend most of the day at the Portland lounge. It is a remarkably pleasant place and I enjoy its closeness to the tracks.


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## lrh442 (May 18, 2022)

The most recent Service Quality Report from the Federal Railroad Administration indicates that customer satisfaction with "Amtrak Personnel" is fairly high, ranging from 84% to 91% on LD trains. See page 40, FY22 Q1 Service Quality Report | FRA (dot.gov) This corroborates my personal experience with generally good Amtrak personnel.

Lots of interesting data here: Intercity Passenger Rail Service Quality and Performance Reports | FRA (dot.gov)


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## Devil's Advocate (May 18, 2022)

None of my friends or family will ride Amtrak anymore because dealing with the staff became too much of a headache. Years later Amtrak remains the butt of jokes about bad service because their entitled staff are willing to say things most carriers would find unacceptable. But who is tasked with ensuring staff are friendly and helpful on Amtrak? The conductor does not care how the staff treat customers so I guess that leaves nobody. I have no idea how they get high scores on staff ratings because I see them treat coach passengers like unwanted cargo. It's always "Get back in the station and wait, go sit in this one particular seat I chose for you, & if you don't like it that's your problem." Calling this good service is even more depressing than admitting it's bad service.


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## zephyr17 (May 18, 2022)

DA you have nailed why there needs to be direct OBS supervision onboard like VIA has, among many other things.


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## Rasputin (May 18, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> None of my friends or family will ride Amtrak anymore because dealing with the staff became too much of a headache. Years later Amtrak remains the butt of jokes about bad service because their entitled staff are willing to say things most carriers would find unacceptable. But who is tasked with ensuring staff are friendly and helpful on Amtrak? The conductor does not care how the staff treat customers so I guess that leaves nobody. I have no idea how they get high scores on staff ratings because I see them treat coach passengers like unwanted cargo. It's always "Get back in the station and wait, go sit in this one particular seat I chose for you, & if you don't like it that's your problem." Calling this good service is even more depressing than admitting it's bad service.


Absolutely the best summation of the problem that I have ever heard!

(But like some things in life, it didn't use to be that way.)


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## TheCrescent (May 18, 2022)

lrh442 said:


> The most recent Service Quality Report from the Federal Railroad Administration indicates that customer satisfaction with "Amtrak Personnel" is fairly high, ranging from 84% to 91% on LD trains. See page 40, FY22 Q1 Service Quality Report | FRA (dot.gov) This corroborates my personal experience with generally good Amtrak personnel.
> 
> Lots of interesting data here: Intercity Passenger Rail Service Quality and Performance Reports | FRA (dot.gov)



That seems like a very good score but (this is not directed at you) I wonder how employees of resorts, high-end hotels and regular airlines would rate.


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## Mystic River Dragon (May 18, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I have no idea how they get high scores on staff ratings because I see them treat coach passengers like unwanted cargo.



I took NER 86 one day last week from Trenton to Kingston in coach. The conductors were pleasant, cheerful, and helpful, and the train was extremely clean—the cleaning people checked/freshened the bathrooms several times during my 4-hour trip. The train was on time the whole way.

I rarely receive an Amtrak survey about my trips, but I received one asking about that trip.

Thinking back, all the surveys I have received have been for very good trips with great crews and no problems.

I have never received a survey about a trip that wasn’t good. 

I have wondered if Amtrak just happens to “randomly” pick the trains with the best crews and general performance and send surveys about those but not about ones with problems?


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## Cal (May 18, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I have wondered if Amtrak just happens to “randomly” pick the trains with the best crews and general performance and send surveys about those but not about ones with problems?


Probably too much work for them to bother doing in the first place  

But in all seriousness, I don't think the people who would be organizing those surveys would be in direct cooperation with the people who schedule the crews. But who knows, that's just a guess from me.


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## Willbridge (May 19, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> If it was not for the existence of Powell's Books a modest walk away, I could easily spend most of the day at the Portland lounge. It is a remarkably pleasant place and I enjoy its closeness to the tracks.


My dad remembers when the SP Red Electric ran on Track One. Next time you look out those windows imagine a train to Corvallis via McMinnville or a suburban train to Lake Oswego.


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## jpakala (May 19, 2022)

Amtrak even decades ago seemed to take any live body. I remember on the Broadway Ltd from Phila to Chicago having the very young "off the street" coach porter turn on the bright flourescent lights in our coach at shortly after 6:00 a.m. My sister groaned: "I can't believe he did that." When I accosted him he said "Them's the rules!" His statement was not true, according to an Amtrak employee after our trip. I've had some drill sergeant types who were honest, mentally capable, even earnest but they did not understand that acting according to their backgrounds is inappropriate. Apparently Amtrak failed to train them adequately on "soft skills" and so on. Flight attendants bring better understanding to the job or get much better training (or both). Brightlight exceeds the airlines.


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## zephyr17 (May 19, 2022)

"Amtrak failed to train them adequately in 'soft skills'..."

I'm shocked! Shocked!


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## Charles785 (May 21, 2022)

Regarding Amtrak employees with less-than-desired customer service skills, here are some comments from earlier this month that I came across on another online forum that might be of interest:

. . . . as we leave New Mexico this evening I have to say how disappointed I am in this trip.
We planned this trip for months. Brought my son and grandson for their first long distance train trip. So excited to introduce them to our favorite mode of travel.

The one thing I was sure of was the dining car. It has gone from bad to horrible on this trip.

The two dining car attendants are unbelievable! Not low energy, negative energy. Everything seems to be such a bother to them. Never introduced themselves like every other long distance train we have been on.

You know how the attendant always asks people to wait at the door to be seated? We were told "go sit down somewhere if you want dinner!" This is after we have tipped well for each meal.

The woman (older) is limping like she's in agony all of a sudden tonight. But honestly, for the past 24 hours she has slowed in serving so much it is almost comical.

She took our order tonight and returned to the table with our drinks in the cardboard drink carrier like you get in the cafe then just sat the carrier on our table and walked away. 

Then when the appetizers arrived she just sat the entire serving tray on the table and walked away! We had to sort it out for ourselves.
Doesn't the lobster cake look delish? Ice cold. Refrigerator cold!

The entrees arrived in the same manner. Brown plastic serving tray plopped down on the table and she walked away!
Tortellini look good? Ice cold. Not room temperature. Ice cold!

We didn't even bother with dessert.

If I were a first time rider after spending a ton of money on this trip there's no way I would ever do another!

Not a one off.

Sausages this morning were refrigerator cold. French toast hard and dried up too.

What is going on? Are they purposely trying to discourage ridership? If not, they are certainly doing just that.

The sleeping cars are just about full, but the dining car has been not even half full ( one one side) at any meal.


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## TaseMeBro (May 21, 2022)

Sitting on the Coast Starlight as I type this.. I've expressed before that it seems the younger crews *trend* towards being friendly and engaging, and the older ones are dismissive and lazy. That, at least, has nearly consistently been my experience.

Today, waiting at Santa Barbara for the Coast Startlight (Southbound/11) to arrive. Booked into business. 

Happened to be waiting on the platform at about the right spot for the Biz class car, so I was one of the first half-dozen or so in line.

A very kind looking, and very elderly, couple were in front of me, and first in line. They had a paper ticket, which was scanned, and the husand began to help his wife aboard.

The guy scanning tickets (older crew) *snapped* at them, actually shouting "Stand over there and wait, you don't go anywhere til I tell you where to sit".

I thought that poor elderly lady was going to cry.

I'm travelling with two friends - three of us on one reservation. Our ticket was scanned, and we joined the "wait for a seat" line.

The business class car is maybe 40% full. We were assigned two windows and an aisle. I thought "oh, that's nice, he deliberately leaving an aisle seat open (four seats for three people in a car less than half full).

Nope... this guy went out of his way (again, less than half full car) to fill in the empty seat in the row he had just given us, dividing our party for no reason I can possibly fathom.

Fortunately, the person put in that seat understood, and simply moved to one of the many open rows once underway.


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## daybeers (May 21, 2022)

@TaseMeBro and @Charles785 y'all need to contact Customer Relations about these experiences. Charles, you definitely should get at least most of your fare refunded back to your card.


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## Bob Dylan (May 22, 2022)

TaseMeBro said:


> Sitting on the Coast Starlight as I type this.. I've expressed before that it seems the younger crews *trend* towards being friendly and engaging, and the older ones are dismissive and lazy. That, at least, has nearly consistently been my experience.
> 
> Today, waiting at Santa Barbara for the Coast Startlight (Southbound/11) to arrive. Booked into business.
> 
> ...


This Turd needs to be reported to Amtrak.

Please call Customer Relations( not Customer Service) and explain what happened due to a rude employee that evidently shouldn't be working in a Customer Facing position.


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## john_f (May 22, 2022)

TaseMeBro said:


> Sitting on the Coast Starlight as I type this.. I've expressed before that it seems the younger crews *trend* towards being friendly and engaging, and the older ones are dismissive and lazy. That, at least, has nearly consistently been my experience....
> 
> The guy scanning tickets (older crew) *snapped* at them, actually shouting "Stand over there and wait, you don't go anywhere til I tell you where to sit"....
> 
> ...


I sometimes wonder, does Amtrak, outside the Northeast Corridor, understand why they offer Business Class? I could not when I rode BC on a Superliner-equipped Saluki from Chicago to Carbondale. (Among other amusements, I was called late from the Chicago lounge and told to wait on the platform until the last dozen coach passengers had boarded.) The conductor on the return trip could not explain the fun I had had, and moved me from coach to Eastern-style(?) business class as compensation. He was a good guy who has probably since retired.


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## JP1822 (May 22, 2022)

I know this may not be too professional and kind either, but if the Amtrak employee started “barking” at me in rude and unprofessional tones (like with the elderly couple above), I am calling it out right there on the scene. Sorry, but its called being human and doing your job. 

Just give the instructions in a tone that is civil, as if everyone is a new rider and doesn’t know any better, No need for the rude and bearish attitudes. Sometimes a person needs to be reminded of that. Sure perhaps the conductor is coming off of a bad experience the station before. But one may have to be reminded to wipe the slate clean.

On the trip with the constant cold food being delivered, send it back to the kitchen…… That’s just wrong. Once may be forgiving but after the second, and third, that’s just beyond and unacceptable. A call to customer relations - for sure. Amtrak is charging on the Western routes for a sleeper, similar to what VIA Rail Canada does for a discounted Sleeper Plus on its Canadian. Passengers are “putting up with this.” 

After all, what are you paying for? It’s thousands of dollars for multiple people (let alone for families). You are paying to rent a closet, be herded like cattle, and be served food you can’t eat? No, not acceptable. I ride regularly and support the Amtrack LD system. Amtrak has and does do better. Thankfully, I haven’t had any of these surly attendants. A few came close but then seemed to change their attitude once they knew they were getting tipped. How ironic….. For the routes I take, I’ve gotten to know many of the onboard service crew.

Customer facing on the front lines - you have to have the good customer service tone put forth all the time. That’s wha they are being paid for, and being paid well for. Riders are also paying handsomely to ride - when onboard services are seemingly getting more sparse.


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## Mystic River Dragon (May 22, 2022)

JP1822 said:


> I know this may not be too professional and kind either, but if the Amtrak employee started “barking” at me in rude and unprofessional tones (like with the elderly couple above), I am calling it out right there on the scene. Sorry, but its called being human and doing your job.
> 
> Just give the instructions in a tone that is civil, as if everyone is a new rider and doesn’t know any better, No need for the rude and bearish attitudes. Sometimes a person needs to be reminded of that. Sure perhaps the conductor is coming off of a bad experience the station before. But one may have to be reminded to wipe the slate clean.



In theory, I agree with you completely. However, remember a conductor can decide you are “unruly” even if you simply remind them to be professional and do their job right—and toss you off the train at the next stop.

It wouldn’t matter if you got tossed, say, on the most crowded part of the NEC—you could just take the next train or even commuter rail.

But if you get tossed out in the wilderness—like from the Empire Builder in a wheat field where the nearest house is 100 miles away or in the Rocky Mountains with the mountain lions tossing a coin for who gets to eat you for lunch—you’ve got a worse problem than a nasty conductor!

So you might want to look out the window and see where you are, then decide whether to discuss the conductor’s behavior with them.

(By the way, nobody argues with the NEC conductors because they move too fast for you to get hold of them!)


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## OBS (May 22, 2022)

Fwiw, the experience posted above, from the swc, is being discussed on Amtrak employees Facebook page. Many employees upset and frustrated about the situation as it happened. Others discussing the frustration of their new schedule of working 6 days and having 4 days off for the swc.


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## jis (May 22, 2022)

OBS said:


> Fwiw, the experience posted above, from the swc, is being discussed on Amtrak employees Facebook page. Many employees upset and frustrated about the situation as it happened. Others discussing the frustration of their new schedule of working 6 days and having 4 days off for the swc.


Just out of curiosity, what are people concluding regarding the incident? I hope that are none that think that this is an appropriate way to get back at the management on the backs of the poor customers by treating them like that.


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## MARC Rider (May 22, 2022)

Charles785 said:


> Regarding Amtrak employees with less-than-desired customer service skills, here are some comments from earlier this month that I came across on another online forum that might be of interest:
> 
> . . . . as we leave New Mexico this evening I have to say how disappointed I am in this trip.
> We planned this trip for months. Brought my son and grandson for their first long distance train trip. So excited to introduce them to our favorite mode of travel.
> ...


This person should be complaining to Customer Relations, (and maybe a copy to the top Amtrak management, and perhaps their Senators and Congressional reps), not to an online forum. Of course, they might have done just that....


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## jis (May 22, 2022)

I have reported this to RPA to take up and follow through with Mr. Chestler.


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## OBS (May 23, 2022)

jis said:


> Just out of curiosity, what are people concluding regarding the incident? I hope that are none that think that this is an appropriate way to get back at the management on the backs of the poor customers by treating them like that.


95% are disgusted with the situation. 5% have empathy for the crews that have had their layover days reduced and are being overworked, etc.


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## jis (May 23, 2022)

jis said:


> I have reported this to RPA to take up and follow through with Mr. Chestler.





Charles785 said:


> Regarding Amtrak employees with less-than-desired customer service skills, here are some comments from earlier this month that I came across on another online forum that might be of interest:
> 
> . . . . as we leave New Mexico this evening I have to say how disappointed I am in this trip.
> We planned this trip for months. Brought my son and grandson for their first long distance train trip. So excited to introduce them to our favorite mode of travel.



Unfortunately, apparently it is quite difficult to get critical details like the date of travel and origin and destination for the individual who posted the complaint on Facebook. I am wondering if perhaps @OBS or anyone else can provide at least the date on which this occurred and on which specific train. There is an Amtrak executive who would like to know. Since I heard this sort of third hand it is kind of difficult for me to figure out when exactly this inicdent took place.

Please PM if you prefer to not disclose publicly.

Thanks for any help...


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## TaseMeBro (May 23, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> In theory, I agree with you completely. However, remember a conductor can decide you are “unruly” even if you simply remind them to be professional and do their job right—and toss you off the train at the next stop.
> 
> It wouldn’t matter if you got tossed, say, on the most crowded part of the NEC—you could just take the next train or even commuter rail.
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. I certainly think that someone treating customers poorly deserves a bit of professional attention from managment.

But, I'm not always willing to be the one to do it - especially during the moment of service.

As you point out, these staff are empowered to deboard you from the train, with potential legal consequence.

In a perfect world, that would only happen if a passenger were behaving in a truly egregious manner.

Unfortunately, when you've already seen the staff member in question behave in an improper manner - that's a strong suggestion they'll continue to do so. That is, they'll use the power they have to simply eject you rather than live up to proper service standards. ("Give people a little power.." and all that).

As an aside, maybe a decade ago, I was on a TATL flight and one of the FAs was being.. really poorly.. moved a friend up from coach to business (not my concern), but then spent a good chunk of the flight ignoring all the other pax in favor of socializing with their friend and piling on the food and drinks.

While still on board, I reached out by email to the airline. I expected a reply later.. after landing, in any event.

Well.. the reply came more quickly. The lead purser, about 90 minutes later, came to my seat with my email on her tablet. Apologized profusely. Made sure me, and the people in the section were given appropriate service for the balance of the flight.

I def got the stink eye from the original FA and her friend, though.


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## OBS (May 23, 2022)

jis said:


> Unfortunately, apparently it is quite difficult to get critical details like the date of travel and origin and destination for the individual who posted the complaint on Facebook. I am wondering if perhaps @OBS or anyone else can provide at least the date on which this occurred and on which specific train. There is an Amtrak executive who would like to know. Since I heard this sort of third hand it is kind of difficult for me to figure out when exactly this inicdent took place.
> 
> Please PM if you prefer to not disclose publicly.
> 
> Thanks for any help...


I could swear I saw a date when I initially read thru all the posts, but just reread everything and I can't find it, sorry.
Sent you PM


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## MSM (Nov 8, 2022)

I have been riding the NEC - Northeast Corridor - for about four years, 2 -3x per week. The conductors, for the most part, are not nice. They are rude, abrasive, condescending, and generally in a power mode for whatever reason. These are customer service representatives, and they do NOT act that way. As far as the excuse of the conductors being overworked, I am a surgeon traveling at 4:25 AM from DC to NY and getting back home at 9 PM at night, round trip. I am overworked, far more than these conductors, and in a high stress position. I have chosen to use Amtrak as a cost savings to my company vs other forms of travel. I put up with their behavior at my choice. There are definitely other forms of travel that are more pleasant, faster, and easier to deal with than Amtrak with these conductors involved. 
Customer service lessons are necessary. Amtrak wants to increase ridership. One of the best ways to do this is to teach the conductors that riders on the train have a choice - they are not obligated to use Amtrak. Rather than being hostile and rude, maybe consider a smile once in a while or a nice greeting or two. That may create an environment that keeps people coming on back, and build a much better atmosphere for growth and development of the service Amtrak provides.


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## Bonser (Nov 8, 2022)

MSM said:


> I have been riding the NEC - Northeast Corridor - for about four years, 2 -3x per week. The conductors, for the most part, are not nice. They are rude, abrasive, condescending, and generally in a power mode for whatever reason. These are customer service representatives, and they do NOT act that way. As far as the excuse of the conductors being overworked, I am a surgeon traveling at 4:25 AM from DC to NY and getting back home at 9 PM at night, round trip. I am overworked, far more than these conductors, and in a high stress position. I have chosen to use Amtrak as a cost savings to my company vs other forms of travel. I put up with their behavior at my choice. There are definitely other forms of travel that are more pleasant, faster, and easier to deal with than Amtrak with these conductors involved.
> Customer service lessons are necessary. Amtrak wants to increase ridership. One of the best ways to do this is to teach the conductors that riders on the train have a choice - they are not obligated to use Amtrak. Rather than being hostile and rude, maybe consider a smile once in a while or a nice greeting or two. That may create an environment that keeps people coming on back, and build a much better atmosphere for growth and development of the service Amtrak provides.


Sorry for your bad experiences. All I know is that I've been riding the NEC since before Amtrak's inception and I've never encountered a hostile or rude conductor. Some don't always smile but they are always professional. Maybe I'm just lucky.


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## jis (Nov 8, 2022)

Bonser said:


> Sorry for your bad experiences. All I know is that I've been riding the NEC since before Amtrak's inception and I've never encountered a hostile or rude conductor. Some don't always smile but they are always professional. Maybe I'm just lucky.


My experience on the NEC generally matches yours.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 8, 2022)

Bonser said:


> Sorry for your bad experiences. All I know is that I've been riding the NEC since before Amtrak's inception and I've never encountered a hostile or rude conductor. Some don't always smile but they are always professional. Maybe I'm just lucky.





jis said:


> My experience on the NEC generally matches yours.


Same here.


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## MARC Rider (Nov 8, 2022)

Bonser said:


> Sorry for your bad experiences. All I know is that I've been riding the NEC since before Amtrak's inception and I've never encountered a hostile or rude conductor. Some don't always smile but they are always professional. Maybe I'm just lucky.


Does this include service on Penn Central, PRR, or New haven, too?



Bonser said:


> Sorry for your bad experiences. All I know is that I've been riding the NEC since before Amtrak's inception and I've never encountered a hostile or rude conductor. Some don't always smile but they are always professional. Maybe I'm just lucky.


I, too have been a regular NEC rider. Of and on since the 1960s, 2-4 times per weeks since 2000. In general, the conductors are fine. Of course, not much service is required, basically all they do for the passenger is lift the ticket. However, I've rarely seen them act nasty or be on a power trip, force people to sit where they don't want to, or any stuff like that.


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## MSM (Nov 8, 2022)

If I am correct, these are Amtrak employees posting responses? Seriously, if Amtrak does not want to improve service, then don't. I ride up with crews of nurses, medical assistants, and others and the experience matches mine. One surgical assistant was not allowed on a train last year by a conductor even through she had a ticket, complained in Newark, and was sent back home on an upgraded Acela. 
Sorry for even posting an honest review.


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## jis (Nov 8, 2022)

MSM said:


> If I am correct, these are Amtrak employees posting responses? Seriously, if Amtrak does not want to improve service, then don't. I ride up with crews of nurses, medical assistants, and others and the experience matches mine. One surgical assistant was not allowed on a train last year by a conductor even through she had a ticket, complained in Newark, and was sent back home on an upgraded Acela.
> Sorry for even posting an honest review.


No one has denied that you had the experience that you say you had. Just like you expressed what your experience was, others expressed their general experience. Different people can have different experiences. It is not clear why that upsets you. None of the posters who shared their non-negative experiences here work for Amtrak. Furthermore many of the posters that you appear to be complaining about also have posted in this and other threads with their bad experiences with Amtrak and at least a few are generally quite critical of Amtrak management. Maybe after you have experienced some other.

It is possible that you mistakenly believe that this site is run by Amtrak. It is not. There is no guarantee that anything posted here will get communicated to Amtrak management. Sometimes they read this site and sometimes not. This site is for people to discuss trains in general and Amtrak in particular with no other connection to Amtrak.


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## Ryan (Nov 8, 2022)

MSM said:


> One surgical assistant was not allowed on a train last year by a conductor even through she had a ticket, complained in Newark, and was sent back home on an upgraded Acela.


I'd love to hear the details of this story.


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## Bonser (Nov 8, 2022)

MSM said:


> If I am correct, these are Amtrak employees posting responses? Seriously, if Amtrak does not want to improve service, then don't. I ride up with crews of nurses, medical assistants, and others and the experience matches mine. One surgical assistant was not allowed on a train last year by a conductor even through she had a ticket, complained in Newark, and was sent back home on an upgraded Acela.
> Sorry for even posting an honest review.


I am not an Amtrak employee, nor have I personally known any. I'm not exactly sure what bothered you about my post because I did not deny that you had bad experiences. Perhaps you could have been more specific.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 8, 2022)

jis said:


> No one has denied that you had the experience that you say you had. Just like you expressed what your experience was, others expressed their general experience. Different people can have different experiences. It is not clear why that upsets you. None of the posters who shared their non-negative experiences here work for Amtrak. Furthermore many of the posters that you appear to be complaining about also have posted in this and other threads with their bad experiences with Amtrak and at least a few are generally quite critical of Amtrak management. Maybe after you have experienced some other.
> 
> It is possible that you mistakenly believe that this site is run by Amtrak. It is not. There is no guarantee that anything posted here will get communicated to Amtrak management. Sometimes they read this site and sometimes not. This site is for people to discuss trains in general and Amtrak in particular with no other connection to Amtrak.


I think he, as others have, thinks the “title” under our names indicate our role with Amtrak. And, as we know, that is not the case.


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## Bonser (Nov 8, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Does this include service on Penn Central, PRR, or New haven, too?
> 
> 
> I, too have been a regular NEC rider. Of and on since the 1960s, 2-4 times per weeks since 2000. In general, the conductors are fine. Of course, not much service is required, basically all they do for the passenger is lift the ticket. However, I've rarely seen them act nasty or be on a power trip, force people to sit where they don't want to, or any stuff like that.


My first corridor trip was Newark to Boston on the Pennsy in 1966.


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## Bonser (Nov 8, 2022)

Bonser said:


> My first corridor trip was Newark to Boston on the Pennsy in 1966.


I still remember the upholstered smoking lounge cars as well as the magazine and snack guy that would briefly board in New Haven


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## JoeBas (Nov 8, 2022)

Bonser said:


> I am not an Amtrak employee, nor have I personally known any. I'm not exactly sure what bothered you about my post because I did not deny that you had bad experiences. Perhaps you could have been more specific.



MSM isn't the first person to be confused thinking the "Titles" along the left under everyone's screen name reflect actual employment positions. 

Might be time to think about changing those.


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## Bonser (Nov 8, 2022)

JoeBas said:


> MSM isn't the first person to be confused thinking the "Titles" along the left under everyone's screen name reflect actual employment positions.
> 
> Might be time to think about changing those.


Funny, I guess everyone here works for the railroad.


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## alpha3 (Nov 8, 2022)

JoeBas said:


> MSM isn't the first person to be confused thinking the "Titles" along the left under everyone's screen name reflect actual employment positions.
> 
> Might be time to think about changing those.


Definitely agree; I lurked on this site a long time before joining as a member, always thinking the titles meant those folks were Amtrak workers. It wasn't until I signed up as a member and saw I was a ''train attendant'' that I had my 'duhhh' moment. The titles ARE a bit misleading.


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## jis (Nov 8, 2022)

Actually anyone can change their title to whatever they like.


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## Willbridge (Nov 8, 2022)

Regarding the complaint, it may partly have to do with the times of day and crew schedules. I haven't much experience in the NEC, but my one row with a conductor on that line was late on a Saturday night on his last trip of the week.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 8, 2022)

In general, on the NEC routes I’ve traveled the most, I have found the Boston to New Haven crews and the crews in Virginia wonderful, the crews between NYC and New Haven on too short a time to see them longer than when they come through to check tickets, but businesslike but pleasant, and the NYC to DC crews somewhere between businesslike and annoyingly bossy.

Having said that, two of the nicest and most helpful conductors I met recently were on the DC to NYC stretch.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 8, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> In general, on the NEC routes I’ve traveled the most, I have found the Boston to New Haven crews and the crews in Virginia wonderful, the crews between NYC and New Haven on too short a time to see them longer than when they come through to check tickets, but businesslike but pleasant, and the NYC to DC crews somewhere between businesslike and annoyingly bossy.
> 
> Having said that, two of the nicest and most helpful conductors I met recently were on the DC to NYC stretch.


Was one of those on 84?


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 8, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Was one of those on 84?



No, but if it’s who I’m thinking of, he’s nice, too! Maybe I’ll run into him on the NEC one day.


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## Ryan (Nov 8, 2022)

I dunno, he's kind of creepy, running around trying to give people hugs and stuff.


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## Joe from PA (Nov 9, 2022)

I've been riding the NEC for 58 years, and cannot recall any employee negatives. Local trains, just one young jerk.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 9, 2022)

I watched a conductor chew out a woman for being on her cell phone in the quiet car on an Acela. She boarded at an intermediate stop and was on the phone as she got on. Probably was not aware she was in the quiet car. The woman was in the wrong, but this could have been handled better. But one time out of dozens of trips on the corridor does not indicate that every employee is rude. 

I've had a few bossy, rude attendants in FC on the Acela. One took orders and waited on passengers, but refused to speak. Another scolded me about my bag being in the aisle seconds after I had just sat down. A third doted on parents with a baby at the expense of providing service to other passengers. None got tips.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 9, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> No, but if it’s who I’m thinking of, he’s nice, too! Maybe I’ll run into him on the NEC one day.


Nah, a different one. I sometimes talk to him, if he’s not busy helping the passengers, when 84 stops at NRK. I might plan a trip to NYC sometime just to board a train in NRK and to give him trouble


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## Metra Electric Rider (Nov 9, 2022)

Bonser said:


> Funny, I guess everyone here works for the railroad.



If I do, where's my pension????


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## jis (Nov 9, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> If I do, where's my pension????


You could appoint yourself VP of HR here and then give yourself "fantasy pension"


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## Asher (Nov 9, 2022)

MSM said:


> I have been riding the NEC - Northeast Corridor - for about four years, 2 -3x per week. The conductors, for the most part, are not nice. They are rude, abrasive, condescending, and generally in a power mode for whatever reason. These are customer service representatives, and they do NOT act that way. As far as the excuse of the conductors being overworked, I am a surgeon traveling at 4:25 AM from DC to NY and getting back home at 9 PM at night, round trip. I am overworked, far more than these conductors, and in a high stress position. I have chosen to use Amtrak as a cost savings to my company vs other forms of travel. I put up with their behavior at my choice. There are definitely other forms of travel that are more pleasant, faster, and easier to deal with than Amtrak with these conductors involved.
> Customer service lessons are necessary. Amtrak wants to increase ridership. One of the best ways to do this is to teach the conductors that riders on the train have a choice - they are not obligated to use Amtrak. Rather than being hostile and rude, maybe consider a smile once in a while or a nice greeting or two. That may create an environment that keeps people coming on back, and build a much better atmosphere for growth and development of the service Amtrak provides.


Doing the math 52 x 2.5 x 4= a lot of abuse. Even if I was on my bosses dime I would find a different mode of transportation. But hey, that’s just me.


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## JoeBas (Nov 9, 2022)

jis said:


> Actually anyone can change their title to whatever they like.



Yup, but most people don't bother to. And actually, the fact that you CAN just adds to the confusion. If you see ALL position-related titles, you might think that looks kinda suspiscious, but seeing some NON-position-related titles mixed in just reinforces that perhaps the others really are employees. 

Again, not saying we need to "cater" to new posters, just pointing out why the OP likely said what they did.


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## jis (Nov 9, 2022)

MODERATOR'S NOTE (including to self): Let us please get back to the subject matter of the thread which is "Rude Amtrak employees”. Shall we? 

We will try to clean up the off topic posts over time.

Thanks for your understanding, cooperation and participation.


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## pennyk (Nov 10, 2022)

With regard to rude Amtrak employees, fortunately, I have not experienced too many rude employees. In fact, on my recent trip from Florida to NYP, I encountered an excellent crew. I knew both SCAs in the sleepers, who also knew me by name. The LSA was fairly new and was friendly and efficient. 

Additionally, a friend (and AU member), who is a conductor on the NEC, knew I was traveling and met my train yesterday. He was in uniform since he was preparing to work later that day. We chatted for a while in the lobby of Moynihan Hall. While we were chatting, my conductor friend was approached by numerous individuals who had questions about their tickets, where to go, etc. My firend patiently answered their questions in a friendly manner. We parted ways when a sight impaired man approached my friend with a question and my firend offered to walk the man to his gate. My friend showed an excellent face for Amtrak. Thank you.


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## AFriendly (Nov 10, 2022)

tjemartin said:


> Hello all
> 
> I just completed my first trip on am Amtrak train yesterday. I traveled aboard the Crescent train from Atlanta, GA to Wilmington, DE. While overall it was a very good experience, I did encounter some rude Amtrak employees. Is this common occurrence on Amtrak? While boarding the train, one employee asked where I'd be heading and I got directed to a specific car, where I sat near the front of the car, which was fine.
> 
> ...


I strongly suspect you got the response that you did because the conductor did not feel like he was empowered to actually do anything about the issue, he probably encounters it frequently, and it is frustrating to see it happen over and over knowing that it will continue to happen for the foreseeable future. I am not defending him- a better response than just acting "put out" would have been to maybe suggest alternative ways for you to keep track of when your stop is coming up for sure!

To answer your original question, I personally haven't encountered any rude Amtrak employees, but I have encountered a couple of people who gave off definite "don't mess with me" signals and also one or two (this is a lot more rare fortunately) who were either surprisingly incompetent or had some major difficulty with perspective-taking. None of it rose to the level of what I have experienced traveling by air, however- those experiences still take the cake for me.


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## Ryan (Nov 10, 2022)

Ryan said:


> I'd love to hear the details of this story.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 10, 2022)

Ryan said:


> View attachment 30386


Seems to have been a hit-and-run poster.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Nov 11, 2022)

I can only think of one negative interaction with an Amtrak employee. This would have been in the early 1980's. My wife and I living in PA at the time were returning from visiting family in the Boston area. We elected to travel back to Philly in the Amclub which some trains on the NEC had at the time, somewhat equivalent to Acela first class on what today would be called a regional train. For some reason the car attendant took an immediate dislike to us for reasons I cannot understand and there were several passive-aggressive actions, culminating in him placing our bags at a door she knew would not open when we got to 30th Street requiring us to grab them and run to another exit. He was a veteran employee probably a holdover from the PC days. Perhaps he felt that we as a young couple in their 20's/30's didn't belong in the club car which seemed to be more oriented to upper class and business people. 

Amclub


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## Steve4031 (Nov 11, 2022)

I had a real winner on 22 once between STL and Chicago. 22 arrived 6 hours late that day. GF and I were in the sleeper. We took the elevator down and walked over to the first sleeper in the consist. There were two that day behind the engine and baggage car, and the diner was behind the second sleeper. The SCA at are sleeper had the door open but no stool out. 

I walked up to the open door and said hello. He told me, "I don't have anyone getting on here." We had booked two or three weeks earlier. I told him, "Then you can't read your manifest. We booked weeks ago and you should have known once you got it in San Antonio. That was over 24 hours ago." He said, "You can't board here because they are refueling the engines. Go back to the other sleeper and board." This was a lie because we had boarded the same sleeper several times in St. Louis while the engines were being fueled. I said, "There is no way I am hauling all this damn luggage up and down two flights of stairs." I slung our bags through the door onto the floor. I walked GF back to the other sleeper and we boarded. I heard the last call for lunch as we boarded so I took her to the diner, got her seated, and explained to the LSA I would be right back after stowing our luggage. The LSA was professional and helpful. 

I walked back and put our luggage on the rack. The SCA was not visible. We had an enjoyable lunch in the dining car. We got back to our room and had been napping when the SCA made an appearance. He started off by reiterating the rules about not boarding when fueling is going on and suggested that we may have gotten off on the wrong foot. I told him, "You definitely got off on the wrong foot with me, and right now your best bet is to disappear and hope that I forget that you exist so I forget to write a letter to Amtrak about you". We had a peaceful ride to Chicago after that.


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## Ryan (Nov 11, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> He told me, "I don't have anyone getting on here." We had booked two or three weeks earlier. I told him, "Then you can't read your manifest. We booked weeks ago and you should have known once you got it in San Antonio. That was over 24 hours ago."


Perhaps there was a nicer way to let the guy know he was mistaken. I'm shocked* that after that opening line you were treated with the same respect you showed.

*I'm not actually shocked in the least.


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## PVD (Nov 11, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Perhaps there was a nicer way to let the guy know he was mistaken. I'm shocked* that after that opening line you were treated with the same respect you showed.
> 
> *I'm not actually shocked in the least.


Because of course we all know the manifest is always right and the reservation system could not possibly omit a name or have them in another car......I got on a Lake Shore one night where the SCA had gone out of his way to make things pleasant, had welcome stickers with everyone's names on the doors, and a glitch moved a bunch of folks around the sleepers, our tickets didn't match the manifest, and it took the conductor and both SCA quite a while to sort out. I was lucky, I was just across the hall, but some were in opposite cars.


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## TheCrescent (Nov 11, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Perhaps there was a nicer way to let the guy know he was mistaken. I'm shocked* that after that opening line you were treated with the same respect you showed.
> 
> *I'm not actually shocked in the least.


I’m siding with Steve4031, having had a similar SCA.

The SCA should have smiled and said “Welcome aboard” when Steve4031 walked up. When Steve4031 didn’t show up on the manifest, the SCA should have said, “I don’t see you listed; could you please show me your ticket so that we can get this straightened out?”

But no, it sounds like the SCA just informed Steve4031 that he wasn’t listed and indicated that the case was closed. No smile, no welcome, no effort to fix the situation.

As shown by the SCA later informing Steve4031 that Steve4031 had started off on the wrong foot, and making up a rule, the SCA clearly was one who sees customers as an inconvenience and people who are to be bossed around, since they are simply an inconvenience.

Unacceptable.


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## jis (Nov 11, 2022)

This appears to be a case of people prematurely coming to conclusions and assuming things that may or may not actually be true and going off at each other. Civility from both sides would have made this transaction much smoother IMHO. And furthermore now some of us are reacting based on apparently pre-set positions more than exploring carefully the facts of the case. Just IMHO of course, and I am like anyone else entitled to one.


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## Ryan (Nov 11, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> I’m siding with Steve4031, having had a similar SCA.
> 
> The SCA should have smiled and said “Welcome aboard” when Steve4031 walked up. When Steve4031 didn’t show up on the manifest, the SCA should have said, “I don’t see you listed; could you please show me your ticket so that we can get this straightened out?”
> 
> ...


You know, it's possible for both people to be wrong in a situation, right?


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## Steve4031 (Nov 11, 2022)

Well, I started out with a good afternoon and a smile. And he responded by being short with me. I did show my ticket, and then what really set me off was being told to drag two suitcases down the platform to the other sleeper, haul them up the stairs in the other sleeper, and then down the stairs to store them on the racks in the car I was assigned to. 

I have had occasions where I boarded a train at an intermediate stop and the SCA explained that my room was moved for one reason or another. Usually, a passenger had just gotten off and the SCA wanted to take time to clean the room. 

I usually just work around the made-up rules and follow directions. But I thought it was unreasonable to tell me to take the luggage to the other car. If he had offered to load our luggage and then direct us to board the other car I would have followed the directions.


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## Amtrak709 (Nov 11, 2022)

With respect, with the prices that are being charged for sleeping car accommodations these days, I think the "scale needs to be tipped" in favor of the passenger (the consumer). As a 375,000 miles rail passenger traveler since 1966 I find instances like the one described above disgraceful!


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Nov 12, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> "You can't board here because they are refueling the engines. Go back to the other sleeper and board."


That sounds like a made-up rule. If refueling the engines was really a hazard (hard to understand since I can stand next to my car and refuel it with much more flammable gasoline but can't be 100 or so feet away from a refueling with a less flammable Diesel fuel?) then why did he have the door open? That was apparently his fallback once the "you are not on my manifest" gambit failed.  

I think the prevalence of rules made up on the spot by various crews is one of the most annoying aspects of Amtrak travel.


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## OBS (Nov 12, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> That sounds like a made-up rule. If refueling the engines was really a hazard (hard to understand since I can stand next to my car and refuel it with much more flammable gasoline but can't be 100 or so feet away from a refueling with a less flammable Diesel fuel?) then why did he have the door open? That was apparently his fallback once the "you are not on my manifest" gambit failed.
> 
> I think the prevalence of rules made up on the spot by various crews is one of the most annoying aspects of Amtrak travel.


Absolutely!


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## Acela150 (Nov 12, 2022)

MSM said:


> As far as the excuse of the conductors being overworked, I am a surgeon traveling at 4:25 AM from DC to NY and getting back home at 9 PM at night, round trip. I am overworked, far more than these conductors, and in a high stress position.


I'm sure that you won't read this. But, trust me.. You have no idea on the hours that Conductors and Assistant Conductors put in these days. I just worked 7 days straight. Those on the extra board such as myself can get called back to work after 6 hours of being off. It happens too. As long as we get 8 hours off, they can call us back to work as soon as 6 hours. Some people live further away from their crew base. So they may only get 3-4 hours of sleep. I'm not saying that you haven't had a bad expereiance. But please understand that being a Conductor and Assistant Conductor can be extremely stressful at times. 


MSM said:


> If I am correct, these are Amtrak employees posting responses?


You're incorrect. 


Ryan said:


> I dunno, he's kind of creepy, running around trying to give people hugs and stuff.


I definetly laughed about this. How couldn't I? LOL!!


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## TheCrescent (Nov 12, 2022)

Acela150 said:


> I'm sure that you won't read this. But, trust me.. You have no idea on the hours that Conductors and Assistant Conductors put in these days. I just worked 7 days straight. Those on the extra board such as myself can get called back to work after 6 hours of being off. It happens too. As long as we get 8 hours off, they can call us back to work as soon as 6 hours. Some people live further away from their crew base. So they may only get 3-4 hours of sleep. I'm not saying that you haven't had a bad expereiance. But please understand that being a Conductor and Assistant Conductor can be extremely stressful at times.
> 
> You're incorrect.
> 
> I definetly laughed about this. How couldn't I? LOL!!


I have worked 72 hours straight, without leaving the office, and without sleeping. Plenty of jobs have long hours and stress. 

I would be fired and shown the door immediately if I were as hostile to clients as some Amtrak SCAs are.

Question: when passengers contact Amtrak to complain about a rude employee, by name, what happens? Amtrak told me that my complaint about a specific SCA was added to a database. But what does Amtrak do with information in that database?


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 12, 2022)

> MSM said:
> One surgical assistant was not allowed on a train last year by a conductor even through she had a ticket, complained in Newark, and was sent back home on an upgraded Acela.





Ryan said:


> I'd love to hear the details of this story.


I wonder if she had a ticket for Newark, DE instead of Newark, NJ.


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## Bonser (Nov 12, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> That sounds like a made-up rule. If refueling the engines was really a hazard (hard to understand since I can stand next to my car and refuel it with much more flammable gasoline but can't be 100 or so feet away from a refueling with a less flammable Diesel fuel?) then why did he have the door open? That was apparently his fallback once the "you are not on my manifest" gambit failed.
> 
> I think the prevalence of rules made up on the spot by various crews is one of the most annoying aspects of Amtrak travel.


Most likely when people are told to reboard OBS simply are trying to keep aisles and passageways as clear as possible.


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## EmpireBuilder28 (Nov 13, 2022)

I use to take a long distance Amtrak trip just about every year from Oregon to either Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. With all those trips I (luckily) only had a few bad experiences. One was a car attendant who yelled at me while boarding the Capitol Limited in Chicago because I was ticketed for the lower level. I'm not sure why that set him off or why he felt it was appropriate to yell at me in front of everyone in line boarding the train with me. I was told in no uncertain terms that there was no lower level seating on that train. That was back when the Chief and Capitol were the same train. And the lower level on that train was one of the old, short lived smoking lounges. It appeared to just be being used for storage at that point. The coach car I was in smelled like vomit. It was a very unpleasant experience and I did reach out to customer service to complain about him and the stench of the car. Apparently we just had a terrible crew on that run as my seat mate did not have anything positive to say about the dining car staff. And he was definitely a rail fan so I felt he was more than likely to give them the benefit of the doubt. The only other horrendous employee I encountered was the infamous LSA on the Empire Builder, Fran. She lived up to her reputation and then some. Will never forget her.


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## nti1094 (Nov 16, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> That sounds like a made-up rule. If refueling the engines was really a hazard (hard to understand since I can stand next to my car and refuel it with much more flammable gasoline but can't be 100 or so feet away from a refueling with a less flammable Diesel fuel?) then why did he have the door open? That was apparently his fallback once the "you are not on my manifest" gambit failed.
> 
> I think the prevalence of rules made up on the spot by various crews is one of the most annoying aspects of Amtrak travel.


Once on the Chief I walked to the last car (coach) while we were on the Glorieta to grab a few pictures of the semaphore signals in that line. After about 3 minutes the attendant of that came over and said “Ok you can return to your place now.” 

I guess they don’t want us filthy sleeper passengers in their fancy coaches.


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## Mailliw (Nov 19, 2022)

TaseMeBro said:


> I agree with you completely. I certainly think that someone treating customers poorly deserves a bit of professional attention from managment.
> 
> But, I'm not always willing to be the one to do it - especially during the moment of service.
> 
> ...


I hope you made eye contact with each of them and smiled.


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## cash (Dec 1, 2022)

MSM said:


> I have been riding the NEC - Northeast Corridor - for about four years, 2 -3x per week. The conductors, for the most part, are not nice. They are rude, abrasive, condescending, and generally in a power mode for whatever reason. These are customer service representatives, and they do NOT act that way. As far as the excuse of the conductors being overworked, I am a surgeon traveling at 4:25 AM from DC to NY and getting back home at 9 PM at night, round trip. I am overworked, far more than these conductors, and in a high stress position. I have chosen to use Amtrak as a cost savings to my company vs other forms of travel. I put up with their behavior at my choice. There are definitely other forms of travel that are more pleasant, faster, and easier to deal with than Amtrak with these conductors involved.
> Customer service lessons are necessary. Amtrak wants to increase ridership. One of the best ways to do this is to teach the conductors that riders on the train have a choice - they are not obligated to use Amtrak. Rather than being hostile and rude, maybe consider a smile once in a while or a nice greeting or two. That may create an environment that keeps people coming on back, and build a much better atmosphere for growth and development of the service Amtrak provides.


I worked for Amtrak for 10years, I used to cringe at some of the staff how rude they are to passenger, but for some reason they never ever get fired for being rude, I am so sorry to hear this I worked in the cafe or diner and loved my job, even though I met some really mean people, please write a complaint letter sometimes it does help with a paper trail.
A big thank you for everyone you help.
Regards
Jane


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## TheCrescent (Dec 1, 2022)

cash said:


> I worked for Amtrak for 10years, I used to cringe at some of the staff how rude they are to passenger, but for some reason they never ever get fired for being rude, I am so sorry to hear this I worked in the cafe or diner and loved my job, even though I met some really mean people, please write a complaint letter sometimes it does help with a paper trail.
> A big thank you for everyone you help.
> Regards
> Jane


I’m sorry that you met some really mean people- you shouldn’t have to be subjected to that.

Out of curiosity:

1. What happens when a customer complains to Amtrak about an employee? Does Amtrak do anything, particularly if the employee’s conduct was really bad?

2. Why are some Amtrak employees so rude to customers? Are the employees just rude throughout life, or is there something about Amtrak or its customers that makes them rude? In short, are they just bad hires, or does the Amtrak experience cause them to be rude?

Thanks.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> I've been riding the NEC for 58 years, and cannot recall any employee negatives. Local trains, just one young jerk.


Would you take someone seriously who said they had ridden for 58 years without a single positive employee? Because that's just as implausible as your post.



Ryan said:


> You know, it's possible for both people to be wrong in a situation, right?


Except that these participants do not bear equal responsibility for resolving mistakes and misunderstandings. One side is a paying customer while the other is a paid on-duty employee. If benefit of the doubt is required it should be the employee who defers and deescalates (within reason of course).


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## habjo (Dec 1, 2022)

I went in a sleeper down to South Carolina last year. While in South Carolina they canceled my return train. I had to take a train and ride from South Carolina to Washington DC get off get a hotel room.( at my cost ) and go to Union Station DC at 8 am and take a train from DC to New London kind of defeats the purpose of a room I had to spend 18 hours with a mask on.
I went to the cafe car which was empty and was enjoying a coffee and a snack and a female Amtrak employee yelled at me for having my mask off. And also told me that her and her coworker were people too. 
I wanted to explode but just got up and walked back to my seat.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Dec 2, 2022)

habjo said:


> I went to the cafe car which was empty and was enjoying a coffee and a snack and a female Amtrak employee yelled at me for having my mask off.


At every non-Amtrak dining establishment during the pandemic, the rule was that you could take your mask off while consuming your food and drink. (And waitstaff didn't attempt to enforce a "put your mask back on between bites/sips" rule, as that would both have been impractical and would have spread even more germs, from having to finger one's mask constantly.)


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## MARC Rider (Dec 2, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> At every non-Amtrak dining establishment during the pandemic, the rule was that you could take your mask off while consuming your food and drink. (And waitstaff didn't attempt to enforce a "put your mask back on between bites/sips" rule, as that would both have been impractical and would have spread even more germs, from having to finger one's mask constantley.)


And also on every Amtrak trip I took during the height of the pandemic, no one ever bothered me about having my mask off while I was eating. From my experience, I would think that the rude behavior cited was a one-off and not typical of most Amtrak OBS staff.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Dec 2, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> And also on every Amtrak trip I took during the height of the pandemic, no one ever bothered me about having my mask off while I was eating. From my experience, I would think that the rude behavior cited was a one-off and not typical of most Amtrak OBS staff.


I think as is typical on Amtrak, YMMV. I was on one Downeaster trip in BC where the conductor was fairly strict about the "sips and bites" rule. Other trips not so much. But at least he wasn't rude about it, just took a narrow interpretation of the rule.


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## Amtrak709 (Dec 2, 2022)

Just surfing here and this thread today and can't help musing about this fact: From this thread's "RUDE AMTRAK EMPLOYEES" inception 02/15/2010 to it's resurrection on 05/15/2022 there were about 30 total posts. From May of this year to present there are about 160 and still very much active. What does this say about Amtrak's rude employees??


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## jis (Dec 2, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Just surfing here and this thread today and can't help musing about this fact: From this thread's "RUDE AMTRAK EMPLOYEES" inception 02/15/2010 to it's resurrection on 05/15/2022 there were about 30 total posts. From May of this year to present there are about 160 and still very much active. What does this say about Amtrak's rude employees??


I am not sure that there has been a sudden uptick in rudeness exclusively on part of the crew. I have a strong impression that there has been a significant rise in rudeness on part of the patrons, purely based on my observation while on trains.

You see all the rudeness discussion in a single thread because we try much harder as Moderators to keep discussions on common subjects focused in a single thread rather than strewn all over the place. There were plenty of rude Amtrak employees posts before but they were spread out over many dozens of threads, often on very diverse subjects. That happens much less now.

Additionally I think it may be saying something about how generally ticked off with Amtrak the AU readership has been of late.


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## Amtrak709 (Dec 2, 2022)

jis said:


> I am not sure that there has been a sudden uptick in rudeness.
> 
> You see all the rudeness discussion in a single thread because we try much harder as Moderators to keep discussions on common subjects focused in a single thread rather than strewn all over the place. There were plenty of rude Amtrak employees posts before but they were spread out over many dozens of threads, often on very diverse subjects. That happens much less now.
> 
> Additionally I think it may be saying something about how generally ticked off with Amtrak the AU readership has been of late.


jis. Thanks for the reply and I guess I agree. Heading off soon on another "just to ride" trip ATN-WAS-ATN. Hoping for "lack of rudeness". I had really wanted to ride he Silvers from SAV or JSP or JAX, but the drive from my home in Columbus GA is so much closer to ATN and I like the non-ADA H Bedroom Viewliner 1 which was available on The Crescent. My only concern is that so many of the "rude employees" posts lately have been about the Crescent.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 2, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> jis. Thanks for the reply and I guess I agree. Heading off soon on another "just to ride" trip ATN-WAS-ATN. Hoping for "lack of rudeness". I had really wanted to ride he Silvers from SAV or JSP or JAX, but the drive from my home in Columbus GA is so much closer to ATN and I like the non-ADA H Bedroom Viewliner 1 which was available on The Crescent. My only concern is that so many of the "rude employees" posts lately have been about the Crescent.


I've noticed that most of the complaints ( including mine) about Rude staff ( and other topics)have mostly been about Staff on the Texas Eaglette,Crescent and Cap Ltd.


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## alpha3 (Dec 2, 2022)

jis said:


> There were plenty of rude Amtrak employees posts before but they were spread out over many dozens of threads, often on very diverse subjects. That happens much less now.
> 
> Additionally I think it may be saying something about how generally ticked off with Amtrak the AU readership has been of late.


AU being ticked off with Amtrak wouldn't carry over to the employees though; they don't make the stupid policies and food service decisions that Amtrak as a company does. However, it may lead to disgruntled folks having to tend two cars where their job is only one, and other short-staffed problems; and, my observation also is that a lot of young people don't know how to control their tempers. The result is they say things they shouldn't, or pout, and maintain bad attitudes.

I've been in situations where I was made to board and depart a full 777, 310 pax, handling upgrades and standbys. It can't be done - in a pleasant way - with unhelpful and unreasonable managers still demanding on-time departures, so you leave people behind, get complaints and lots of unhappiness. You deal with it, as best you can. 

But the other side of this is the passengers themselves. People have turned into real ass-hats these days, there are a LOT of idiots out there now. Just look at the crazy scenarios that play out on airplanes. I'm sure there are obnoxious idiots on trains that vex the crews and ruin their days, I sort of secretly enjoy that a train can stop and put someone out in the middle of nowhere for bad behavior......lol. It's up to the conductor to handle these properly, but....sometimes you can't blame the employees for being reactionary. Everyone needs to calm down and respect each other.


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## Bonser (Dec 3, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> I hope you made eye contact with each of them and smiled.


I've never witnessed the behavior you describe on Amtrak and I've been riding it since its inception. Yes, I have seen riders kicked off the train but only after displaying very bad behavior. And I've seen gruff staff but never over the line. The biggest failing among some staff is laziness.


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## mgkeihl (Dec 4, 2022)

I agree, most people are quite helpful. I did have a diner car guy who at 6:28 make me stand between cars till 6:30 for coffee! I think he was running late himself and a generous tip helped for the rest of the trip!


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## Bonser (Dec 4, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Just surfing here and this thread today and can't help musing about this fact: From this thread's "RUDE AMTRAK EMPLOYEES" inception 02/15/2010 to it's resurrection on 05/15/2022 there were about 30 total posts. From May of this year to present there are about 160 and still very much active. What does this say about Amtrak's rude employees??


It might mean that all of us are quicker to take offense at what we perceive to be rudeness now. Maybe it's a consequence of having less interaction with people because of Covid restrictions and Covid isolation.


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## railiner (Dec 4, 2022)

alpha3 said:


> AU being ticked off with Amtrak wouldn't carry over to the employees though; they don't make the stupid policies and food service decisions that Amtrak as a company does. However, it may lead to disgruntled folks having to tend two cars where their job is only one, and other short-staffed problems; and, my observation also is that a lot of young people don't know how to control their tempers. The result is they say things they shouldn't, or pout, and maintain bad attitudes.
> 
> I've been in situations where I was made to board and depart a full 777, 310 pax, handling upgrades and standbys. It can't be done - in a pleasant way - with unhelpful and unreasonable managers still demanding on-time departures, so you leave people behind, get complaints and lots of unhappiness. You deal with it, as best you can.
> 
> But the other side of this is the passengers themselves. People have turned into real ass-hats these days, there are a LOT of idiots out there now. Just look at the crazy scenarios that play out on airplanes. I'm sure there are obnoxious idiots on trains that vex the crews and ruin their days, I sort of secretly enjoy that a train can stop and put someone out in the middle of nowhere for bad behavior......lol. It's up to the conductor to handle these properly, but....sometimes you can't blame the employees for being reactionary. Everyone needs to calm down and respect each other.


I have to agree with a lot of your observations. 

Some people feel that when they are dealing with an employee, they are 'entitled' to treat them like 'servants', and are 'safe' in dishing out poor treatment of them, and speak to them in a manner that they wouldn't dare, if they just met them off duty on the street, somewhere...

On the other hand, I also agree that the long interned corporate culture at Amtrak in particular, gives some employees the attitude that they are 'entitled' to their job, that the passenger is an imposition on their day, that they are not paid by the passenger's, but rather by 'the government', and that they can get away with rude behaviour that would not be tolerated in better managed companies.

Again, this is not true for every employee, some of whom still take great pride in their occupation, despite often peer pressure to do otherwise...


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## TheCrescent (Dec 4, 2022)

railiner said:


> Some people feel that when they are dealing with an employee, they are 'entitled' to treat them like 'servants', and are 'safe' in dishing out poor treatment of them, and speak to them in a manner that they wouldn't dare, if they just met them off duty on the street, somewhere...
> 
> On the other hand, I also agree that the long interned corporate culture at Amtrak in particular, gives some employees the attitude that they are 'entitled' to their job, that the passenger is an imposition on their day, that they are not paid by the passenger's, but rather by 'the government', and that they can get away with rude behaviour that would not be tolerated in better managed companies.
> 
> Again, this is not true for every employee, some of whom still take great pride in their occupation, despite often peer pressure to do otherwise...


Agreed.

If Amtrak corporate culture and bad passengers “made” Amtrak employees be nasty (and I’ve dealt with very nasty service on Amtrak), then there wouldn’t be any nice employees at all.

I just took the Crescent again and the sleeping car attendant was absolutely wonderful. She smiled the whole time, made it clear that she valued me and my business, and put me at ease. The only cash that I had was $10, which I gave her as I got off, but I will gladly give more next time (she is from Mississippi and I have ridden with her before). She is a spectacular person and spectacular employee, and would be spectacular in any job with any company.


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## 33Nicolas (Dec 4, 2022)

For the most part, Amtrak employees are great from train conductors to operators. I did find a few conductors and ticket folks who had a serious attitude. We can blame it on tough times, COVID pressure. Every time I feel like reminding them that it's tough on everyone, riders included.


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## alpha3 (Dec 4, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> She is a spectacular person and spectacular employee, and would be spectacular in any job with any company.


Heh......you're not married to her, are you......! (kidding)


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 4, 2022)

There is one fact I think we perhaps are overlooking: 

People either take pride in their work or they don’t, regardless of their circumstances.

For example, when I was working in my career as an editor, I did my best to do an excellent job and took pride in doing so.

It didn’t matter if I was editing a report for one of the many people I enjoyed working with or one of the few annoying ones. I tried to give each document careful and thoughtful attention, because doing excellent work was important to me.

I think there are many Amtrak employees with a similar attitude—they do their best in all situations. There are also a few who are miserable in their work and show it—but they would be miserable in any other job as well.


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## alpha3 (Dec 4, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> For example, when I was working in my career as an editor, I did my best to do an excellent job and took pride in doing so.
> 
> It didn’t matter if I was editing a report for one of the many people I enjoyed working with or one of the few annoying ones. I tried to give each document careful and thoughtful attention, because doing excellent work was important to me.


I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, Mystic. But I question whether today's workers even possess that type of work ethic anymore.


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## TheCrescent (Dec 4, 2022)

alpha3 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, Mystic. But I question whether today's workers even possess that type of work ethic anymore.


Yes, plenty do. But plenty don’t. That’s how it has been for my entire career.


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## VKurtB (Dec 4, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Yes, plenty do. But plenty don’t. That’s how it has been for my entire career.


Never fail to account for the recent rail union negotiations and the ill will created by them.


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## TheCrescent (Dec 4, 2022)

VKurtB said:


> Never fail to account for the recent rail union negotiations and the ill will created by them.


The crew members on the Crescent were griping about those as I was standing next to the vestibule, waiting to get off. But they remained perfectly nice to me.

EDITED TO ADD: they mentioned “the freight railroads” and paid sick days.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 4, 2022)

VKurtB said:


> Never fail to account for the recent rail union negotiations and the ill will created by them.


Amtrak and its unions were not parties in the recent freight rail labor negotiations. Amtrak and their unions were entirely uninvolved.

Amtrak and its unions last signed their contracts a couple of years ago, IIRC, and they remain in force.


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## VKurtB (Dec 5, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Amtrak and its unions were not parties in the recent freight rail labor negotiations. Amtrak and their unions were entirely uninvolved.
> 
> Amtrak and its unions last signed their contracts a couple of years ago, IIRC, and they remain in force.


The television news stories indicated Amtrak was part of it.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 5, 2022)

VKurtB said:


> The television news stories indicated Amtrak was part of it.


Amtrak would have been affected, as they would not have been able to access host railroad trackage if the freight railroads were struck. So most Amtrak trains outside the NEC and the NY Empire Service south of Albany would have been cancelled.

But neither Amtrak nor Amtrak's unions were a parties in that labor dispute between the Big 7 freight railroads and 12 of their unions. Amtrak and their unions were not involved and Amtrak has current, unexpired, contracts in force with all their bargaining units, AFAIK. Amtrak would not have been the target of that strike and Amtrak union membership would not have been striking.

The Congressionally mandated forced settlement also does not apply to Amtrak's union membership. They will continue to work under the contracts that were negotiated solely between the unions and Amtrak management.

I never said Amtrak would not have been affected. They clearly would have been. But it would have been "collateral damage" of a strike they had no involvement in. Amtrak personnel would not have been involved, other than losing work because Amtrak would not have been able to run trains outside the NEC and Hudson Line.

So I doubt that the recent labor dispute added to any "ill will" towards Amtrak management by their union membership, because it has absolutely nothing to do with their lives. That is not to say there is no ill will. There may be. But it would be for other reasons than the issues between the freight railroads and their unions.


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## LMC (Dec 5, 2022)

Bonser said:


> I've never witnessed the behavior you describe on Amtrak and I've been riding it since its inception. Yes, I have seen riders kicked off the train but only after displaying very bad behavior. And I've seen gruff staff but never over the line. The biggest failing among some staff is laziness.


I dunno. All of us can have bad days. I will say that every car attendant I had was wonderful. Problem .solvers. Engaging. Kind. The only really rude people I encountered over my last trip 3 days travel each way) were two of the several dining car attendants. Those two were extremely rude, almost hostile as I inquired about gluten free options for dining and making fun of my request to the other dining attendants. So two people out of many and I have just not eaten dining food again.


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## TheCrescent (Dec 5, 2022)

I tried to send praise for the terrific SCA on the Crescent to Amtrak. There is an “employee praise” part of the Amtrak website and so I filled out the form to send praise to Amtrak.

The website doesn’t work.


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 22, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> I had a real winner on 22 once between STL and Chicago. 22 arrived 6 hours late that day. GF and I were in the sleeper. We took the elevator down and walked over to the first sleeper in the consist. There were two that day behind the engine and baggage car, and the diner was behind the second sleeper. The SCA at are sleeper had the door open but no stool out.
> 
> I walked up to the open door and said hello. He told me, "I don't have anyone getting on here." We had booked two or three weeks earlier. I told him, "Then you can't read your manifest. We booked weeks ago and you should have known once you got it in San Antonio. That was over 24 hours ago." He said, "You can't board here because they are refueling the engines. Go back to the other sleeper and board." This was a lie because we had boarded the same sleeper several times in St. Louis while the engines were being fueled. I said, "There is no way I am hauling all this damn luggage up and down two flights of stairs." I slung our bags through the door onto the floor. I walked GF back to the other sleeper and we boarded. I heard the last call for lunch as we boarded so I took her to the diner, got her seated, and explained to the LSA I would be right back after stowing our luggage. The LSA was professional and helpful.
> 
> I walked back and put our luggage on the rack. The SCA was not visible. We had an enjoyable lunch in the dining car. We got back to our room and had been napping when the SCA made an appearance. He started off by reiterating the rules about not boarding when fueling is going on and suggested that we may have gotten off on the wrong foot. I told him, "You definitely got off on the wrong foot with me, and right now your best bet is to disappear and hope that I forget that you exist so I forget to write a letter to Amtrak about you". We had a peaceful ride to Chicago after that.


Well I can tell you I hate made up rules in little fiefdoms. But it could have been handled better on both parts, as someone who has worked on trains, and now planes if someone talks to me like that I'm not going to be hostile because I'm professional but I'm not going to be as friendly and helpful as I could be. I've had plenty of times where if someones nice to me I'll upgrade them. But that's how I work, and if I can't do that I'll try and do something else nice if they are friendly. Bark at me and I won't serve alcohol to that person. 



AmtrakMaineiac said:


> That sounds like a made-up rule. If refueling the engines was really a hazard (hard to understand since I can stand next to my car and refuel it with much more flammable gasoline but can't be 100 or so feet away from a refueling with a less flammable Diesel fuel?) then why did he have the door open? That was apparently his fallback once the "you are not on my manifest" gambit failed.
> 
> I think the prevalence of rules made up on the spot by various crews is one of the most annoying aspects of Amtrak travel.



I agree with you 100 percent the made up rules on the spot by the various people in any industry that go against the standard rules is the bane of all of our existence. And I really think anyone who is in charge of managing the train, or really anything should not be in trusted with writing the rules as that can very easily lead to abuse of authority and power. And it can turn many good environments into toxic environments. For instance when i'm at work I enforce the rules that are federally mandated such as FARS, or company mandated. If it isn't in there then I'm not going to enforce things that might make my life easier or better. I am a firm believer that the people enforcing rules should not be the ones writing them. Now they should have input in the rules that are written because there is no one that knows the job better than the people doing it. But they shouldn't be allowed to write the rules as again it leads to abuse of authority. And I really think we as advocates for Amtrak, and for ourselves should stand up to these abuses of authority and work to make things better for all of us as a whole. 



cash said:


> I worked for Amtrak for 10years, I used to cringe at some of the staff how rude they are to passenger, but for some reason they never ever get fired for being rude, I am so sorry to hear this I worked in the cafe or diner and loved my job, even though I met some really mean people, please write a complaint letter sometimes it does help with a paper trail.
> A big thank you for everyone you help.
> Regards
> Jane



I worked in a diner a few times and I loved that job more than anything. It was amazing. 



Mystic River Dragon said:


> There is one fact I think we perhaps are overlooking:
> 
> People either take pride in their work or they don’t, regardless of their circumstances.
> 
> ...



Pride definitely helps in a job I think. I take a lot of pride in my job as a PV attendant. I can tell you my regular clients drink orders from memory. I know who wants what and when. And in my actual day job as a flight attendant I am always taking pride in what I do and trying to go one step above and treat people with the same respect and honor as I would my PV clients. In my opinion everyone deserves respect rich or poor it doesn't matter. And on my plane you pay to ride and you deserve the best treatment. We are instructed to use people's names in first class but no one says anything about the main cabin. Well I'm a firm believer in it so I have my manifest on the beverage cart in front of me so I can use everyone's name. My passengers are usually shocked at first then incredibly impressed that I take the time to do it. Sometimes I mispronounce the last names but sometimes it's not the fact that you might mispronounce it, it is the thought and effort it takes in making it personal. I believe in personal service. I want everyone to feel special that is my mission in life. If you are happy then I am happy and that shows in almost all of my actions.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 24, 2022)

Note that I walked up to the guy and said hello. Imho the “professional move” at that point is for him to assume I went to the wrong sleeper and ask to see my ticket or ask my car number so he could direct me to the correct car. Once he started he had no one getting on here set the tone that he wasn't being helpful. I'm not asking for upgrades or drinks or anything else. Just do the job correctly.


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## TheCrescent (Dec 25, 2022)

Is there any Amtrak specific written rule (such as in an employee service manual) that states how passengers must board and get off sleeping cars?

In the past, I’ve been screamed at when I boarded one sleeping car but my room was in the next car (though right near the door I used), and I’ve been screamed at again and ordered to get off the train through the door in the sleeping car where my room was located.

So I figured that there must be a rule that says that sleeping car passengers must board and exit through the door on the sleeping car where their rooms are located.

But today both sleeping cars exited through one sleeping car door (that was almost in the middle of both cars). So I guess the rule doesn’t exist.

Also today, the sleeping car passengers exited, stepping onto dirt, as part of the platform had been demolished. Coach passengers, however, exited through the coach next to the lounge car, onto the remaining part of the platform. One sleeping car passenger exclaimed, “I paid hundreds of dollars to walk through dirt.” We could have easily just walked through the lounge car and exited onto the platform (perhaps the sleeping car attendant figured that we didn’t want to haul luggage through the train, but we would have had to walk the same distance to reach the parking lot).

I’m confused. The sleeping car attendant today was not rude, but I’m unclear about if there is a rule that says where to board and get off, or not.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 25, 2022)

AFAIK there is no rule. Generally when I've boarded, I've been asked which car and directed to it by the first sleeper attendant I've encountered, but I mostly board at major stations, Seattle, Chicago, NY Penn, Los Angeles are most frequent. At my home station of Everett, the station agent announces where sleeper and coach passengers are supposed to stand.

In any case, I generally know which car is which anyway and head towards mine.

There is nothing in the Service Standards manual about it, IIRC. Customers should never be yelled at for innocent mistakes in any industry and the Service Standards manual contains no case in which that behavior is sanctioned.

As to getting off in the dirt, in my experience at most stations with short platforms they've done a double (or even triple) spot so coaches and sleepers are spotted at the platform in turn. I'm kind of surprised that a double spot was not done in your case, in my experience they are quite routine. The cases I've seen where you do deboard onto the ballast have been fresh air stops (some not usual, because we were early and the crew decided they could open up while we held for time) where passengers actually weren't generally detraining with luggage. I recall that at Alpine, TX, and Beaumont when is was still the Beaumont Slab.

Most of my travel is on the western Superliners, though I have been on the Eastern trains quite a bit in the last few years.


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## joelkfla (Dec 25, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Is there any Amtrak specific written rule (such as in an employee service manual) that states how passengers must board and get off sleeping cars?
> 
> In the past, I’ve been screamed at when I boarded one sleeping car but my room was in the next car (though right near the door I used), and I’ve been screamed at again and ordered to get off the train through the door in the sleeping car where my room was located.
> 
> ...


This is included in the SCA duties in the SSL:

As customers approach the car, call out the car number.
As customers approach greet them, ask for their name, confirm their name is on the manifest and direct them to their accommodation.
Assist customers with luggage onto the vestibule and direct them to their accommodations.
Inform customers that their baggage will be brought to them upon departure. Do not leave the boarding door unattended.
Ensure that all carry-on baggage has identification tags attached.

Remain on the ground until the Conductor signals the train is ready to depart.
Late boarding customers will be allowed to board at any opening and then escorted to their car.
From the 2nd major bullet & its subordinates, one might infer that passengers are normally expected to board at the door manned by their SCA.

From the last bullet, one might infer that passengers _not _arriving late are expected to board at the door of their assigned car.

That being said, I generally travel with a mobility scooter, and there have been instances when my SCA has asked able-bodied passengers to board at the door of an adjacent car so as to expedite my boarding via the lift or bridge plate.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 26, 2022)

In my case in St. Louis the SCA did not perform any of the standards in the service guidelines. He was not at the door,. He was inside the car. He did not call out the car number. He did not ask for my name. He did not direct me to my accommodation. He did not assist with luggage. I can understand why he would not assist with the luggage because by that time I had already exchanged words with him about being required to go to a different car to board. Boarding at a different car would have only been appropriate if the train was about to depart. Obviously, this was not the case since I could see the fuel hoses hooked up to the engines, and the the SCA stating that since the train was refueling I could not board at that car.


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## jis (Dec 26, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> In my case in St. Louis the SCA did not perform any of the standards in the service guidelines. He was not at the door,. He was inside the car. He did not call out the car number. He did not ask for my name. He did not direct me to my accommodation. He did not assist with luggage. I can understand why he would not assist with the luggage because by that time I had already exchanged words with him about being required to go to a different car to board. Boarding at a different car would have only been appropriate if the train was about to depart. Obviously, this was not the case since I could see the fuel hoses hooked up to the engines, and the the SCA stating that since the train was refueling I could not board at that car.


That is funny! Must be a transplant from some airline, that SCA


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## TheCrescent (Dec 26, 2022)

What happens to Amtrak employees who customers complain about (by contacting Amtrak by email or letter after the trip)? For example, if Steve4031 wrote Amtrak to complain about the sleeping car attendant that he described, what would Amtrak do the employee, if anything?


jis said:


> That is funny! Must be a transplant from some airline, that SCA


I’ve flown probably 2,750 flights in the last 25 years and no airline employee has ever tried to prevent me from boarding. 

Often the employee who scans my boarding pass says some type of pleasantry and often the flight attendant who is standing there at the entrance to the plane says “welcome aboard” or something. Not sure which airline you’re referring to, but it’s not American or Delta.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 26, 2022)

I’ve gotten better service on airlines as a rule. I understand that the FAs are there for our safety. As on Amtrak I start off with greetings and please and thank you. I don’t go looking for trouble. I am there to enjoy the trip.


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## jis (Dec 26, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> I’ve flown probably 2,750 flights in the last 25 years and no airline employee has ever tried to prevent me from boarding.


My comment was merely about the SCA insisting that no one could board because the engine was being fueled. It was not meant to have any broader implications. Hence the smiley.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 26, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> Not sure which airline you’re referring to, but it’s not American or Delta.


It's not nearly as bad as Amtrak but American does have some rude and obnoxious employees. They're mainly on transoceanic flights but anywhere seniority trumps performance you'll find some bad apples. Most of my positive flying experiences involve regional affiliates with newer staff who still see us as individual passengers rather than an amorphous punching bag for every workplace grievance.


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## travelplus (Dec 27, 2022)

I have had great experiences on Amtrak. They have been kind and very helpful to me. if you are polite then they will act in kind unless they are having a bad day.


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## TheCrescent (Dec 27, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's not nearly as bad as Amtrak but American does have some rude and obnoxious employees. They're mainly on transoceanic flights but anywhere seniority trumps performance you'll find some bad apples. Most of my positive flying experiences involve regional affiliates with newer staff who still see us as individual passengers rather than an amorphous punching bag for every workplace grievance.


Yes, I haven’t flown transatlantic since taking US Airways but I’ve heard similar reports.

In any event, as we both agree, airlines are generally smoother in terms of employees in customer-facing roles.


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## crescent-zephyr (Dec 30, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Most of my positive flying experiences involve regional affiliates with newer staff who still see us as individual passengers rather than an amorphous punching bag for every workplace grievance.


I’m pretty new to flying (used to take Amtrak everywhere I could until a particularly rude sca on the zephyr once and the way pricing has shot up).

This actually connects some dots for me - most of my flights are on smaller regional planes and I’ve had such friendly crews. But even on the larger jets that fly from say Atlanta to LA I’ve been surprised by some pretty Amtrak level rudeness / lazyness especially on Delta.


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## basketmaker (Dec 30, 2022)

Curious, does Amtrak have any kind of customer service award i.e. Employee of the Month, a special parking spot at their domicile, financial or even extra paid time off? This could be for different departments like OBS, ticket agents, baggage agents, conductors, etc.. And more importantly a way of keeping track of good deeds and praise performed by employees submitted by customers and/or supervisory/management? Or is it just the paper trail of complaints?


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## OBS (Dec 30, 2022)

basketmaker said:


> Curious, does Amtrak have any kind of customer service award i.e. Employee of the Month, a special parking spot at their domicile, financial or even extra paid time off? This could be for different departments like OBS, ticket agents, baggage agents, conductors, etc.. And more importantly a way of keeping track of good deeds and praise performed by employees submitted by customers and/or supervisory/management? Or is it just the paper trail of complaints?


Nothing other than the annual Presidents awards, which mostly end up going to corporate employees, other than a few awards given for customer service or to people helping in derailments, etc. You get trip to Wash DC, fancy dinner and a plaque.


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## skylar (Dec 30, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's not nearly as bad as Amtrak but American does have some rude and obnoxious employees. They're mainly on transoceanic flights but anywhere seniority trumps performance you'll find some bad apples. Most of my positive flying experiences involve regional affiliates with newer staff who still see us as individual passengers rather than an amorphous punching bag for every workplace grievance.


I got yelled at by an American flight attendant on a flight to Ireland for daring to open my window shade in the middle of the day. I always thought that one of the perks of a window seat was being able to look out the window, plus I find planes a bit confining with the windows closed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've never had a problem with any Amtrak employees, fortunately, at worst they're tired and a bit cranky after hours of delays or troublesome passengers but nothing that I couldn't understand from the circumstances.


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## basketmaker (Dec 30, 2022)

OBS said:


> Nothing other than the annual Presidents awards, which mostly end up going to corporate employees, other than a few awards given for customer service or to people helping in derailments, etc. You get trip to Wash DC, fancy dinner and a plaque.


Thanx... Seems like it is always the "suits" get the recognition. I can understand folks who go above and beyond in disasters and the like. A monthly recognition goes a long way.


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