# Amtrak Status Maps / Amsnag - Down



## John Bobinyec (Apr 9, 2012)

Is anyone else having trouble getting information from the Status page of Amtrak.com - or is it just me?

John Bobinyec


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 9, 2012)

Worked for me. Maybe they started blocking you?


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## Grandpa D (Apr 9, 2012)

Seems OK here. (Comcast cable internet.)


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## Acela150 (Apr 9, 2012)

Mine says "Lost Contact With AMTK"


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## Phil S (Apr 9, 2012)

Acela150 said:


> Mine says "Lost Contact With AMTK"


Mine too says "Lost Contact" but the times seems to be up to date. I'm waiting to see if 14 successfully navigates the SLO vortex today. 20 minutes late out of Santa Barbara, no report yet from SLO. I see that 14 (7) finally dragged into SEA about 0300 -- what a mess.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 9, 2012)

Sorry folks. The Amtrak Status Maps are temporarily offline. I'm being denied access to the Status page of Amtrak.com. Hopefully I'll be able to do something to get things back online, but it won't happen until tomorrow.

John Bobinyec


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## Phil S (Apr 9, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Sorry folks. The Amtrak Status Maps are temporarily offline. I'm being denied access to the Status page of Amtrak.com. Hopefully I'll be able to do something to get things back online, but it won't happen until tomorrow.
> 
> John Bobinyec


John - Thanks again for all the work you put into this, especially the stuff you shouldn;t have to do!


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## The Chief (Apr 9, 2012)

*John*,

Error Code noted by *Acela 150* still displays, each region:

*Lost contact with Amtrak*
Times are NOT current.

Status appears to be functional on amtrak.com


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## George (Apr 9, 2012)

yikes, there's a fire in Connecticut that is affecting Amtrak service. We need those maps to know about the status of trains between Penn and South Station.


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## Ryan (Apr 9, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Sorry folks. The Amtrak Status Maps are temporarily offline. I'm being denied access to the Status page of Amtrak.com. Hopefully I'll be able to do something to get things back online, but it won't happen until tomorrow.
> 
> John Bobinyec


Does it appear that they're specifically blocking the IP address of your server?

That would suck, and I'd wonder if amsnag's days are numbered.


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## gaspeamtrak (Apr 9, 2012)

Acela150 said:


> Mine says "Lost Contact With AMTK"



Same here...


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## Aaron (Apr 10, 2012)

Ryan said:


> That would suck, and I'd wonder if amsnag's days are numbered.


It appears that number may be 0. Any request I try with Amsnag just gives me back the generic error of "Check Departure and/or Arrival station codes".

Poop.


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## TimePeace (Apr 10, 2012)

Aaron said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > That would suck, and I'd wonder if amsnag's days are numbered.
> ...


I'm getting that too. Darn, we are gonna miss amsnag a lot if it stays down...


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## Henry Kisor (Apr 10, 2012)

Railstatus.com on TrainWeb is also fritzed.


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## Ryan (Apr 10, 2012)

I wonder if Amtrak took notice of IP addresses that were doing more than a "normal" amount of requests and pulled the plug on all of them.

That would suck to be sure.


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## acelafan (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes it would...especially since there isn't an easy alternative to the maps and the fare comparisons. It could be they implemented some sort of automatic algorithm that detects abnormal activity (as opposed to singling out Amsnag and the status maps on purpose) and this is a consequence.

If they have deliberately cut off access I wonder if there is any way to engage them in a conversation to reconsider...we'd have to explain why we feel it's important to share data, not restrict it.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 10, 2012)

I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.

jb

PS We're back - 9.29 a.m. 4/10/2012


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## acelafan (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks very much!


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## Tumbleweed (Apr 10, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.
> 
> jb
> 
> PS We're back - 9.29 a.m. 4/10/2012


Thanks for all your efforts! Any chance Amsnag will be back up? That is probably the most handy tool and I would think very beneficial to Amtrak also....


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 10, 2012)

Tumbleweed said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.
> ...


In order to come back, they'll need to counteract the change that Amtrak took.

jb


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## Blackwolf (Apr 10, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.
> 
> jb
> 
> PS We're back - 9.29 a.m. 4/10/2012


Thanks a Million, JB! :lol:

Off-hand, and without divulging information that you want to keep under wraps, was the issue a side-effect of something else Amtrak did with their side of the system? I would be very disappointed if the problem was caused by a deliberate attempt at shutting down sites like the Status Maps and AmSnag (considering, as noted before, that even Amtrak employees use the Maps and AmSnag has become rather invaluable in its own right!)


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 10, 2012)

Blackwolf said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.
> ...


I think they were doing a little spring cleaning, or perhaps "tuning" is a better word. We just happened to get caught in the fallout.

jb


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## ColdRain&Snow (Apr 10, 2012)

John --

I'd like to take this opportunity to extend my thanks and appreciation to you for providing the Amtrak community with this invaluable tool. It's become so integral to my travel planning that I even use it onboard to monitor the timekeeping of the train I'm riding. If you do ever decide to accept donations for the ASM application, please be sure to let us know as I know many folks like me would like to send a donation your way. Your ingenious app and the support you underwrite it with are deeply appreciated.

Keep up the great work!

--Jeff Nicholson


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 10, 2012)

ColdRain&Snow said:


> John --
> 
> I'd like to take this opportunity to extend my thanks and appreciation to you for providing the Amtrak community with this invaluable tool. It's become so integral to my travel planning that I even use it onboard to monitor the timekeeping of the train I'm riding. If you do ever decide to accept donations for the ASM application, please be sure to let us know as I know many folks like me would like to send a donation your way. Your ingenious app and the support you underwrite it with are deeply appreciated.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I really appreciate that. Even though I go to some lengths to hide them, I should point out that the maps are supported by ads. You just have to look for them ( click on (+) Ads ).

jb


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## PaulM (Apr 10, 2012)

Ryan said:


> I wonder if Amtrak took notice of IP addresses that were doing more than a "normal" amount of requests and pulled the plug on all of them.


At first I thought this could be the case because I got results when a ran amsnag from my own machine instead of the normal web hosting server. But then I noticed that they were nonsense. So I suspect Amtrak made some change that is causing the problem. Theoretically, changing one character in the reservation query response could send amsnag to the bit bucket.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 10, 2012)

PaulM said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if Amtrak took notice of IP addresses that were doing more than a "normal" amount of requests and pulled the plug on all of them.
> ...


Contact me privately, please. <- Disregard - already done.

jb (jgb @ dbd01.com )


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## dlagrua (Apr 10, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


What ever the future holds for Amsnag I would also like to express my sincerest thanks for this valuable trip planning tool. If Amtrak in fact pulled the plug on it, it will just take longer for the travelers to find prices. I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish. Pricing information is always in the public domain.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 10, 2012)

dlagrua said:


> What ever the future holds for Amsnag I would also like to express my sincerest thanks for this valuable trip planning tool. If Amtrak in fact pulled the plug on it, it will just take longer for the travelers to find prices. I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish. Pricing information is always in the public domain.


From JB's post, it sounds like Amtrak just made some in-house changes to their system/program(s) which just happened to affect the Status Map and Amsnag programs. Doesn't sound like Amtrak did anything on purpose to take them down.


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## leemell (Apr 10, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Blackwolf said:
> 
> 
> > John Bobinyec said:
> ...


I'm getting a "page not found" when I try to go to Amsnag now. Did you take the page down?


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## PRR 60 (Apr 10, 2012)

leemell said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > Blackwolf said:
> ...


John does not run Amsnag. He runs Amtrak Status Maps.


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## leemell (Apr 10, 2012)

PRR 60 said:


> leemell said:
> 
> 
> > John Bobinyec said:
> ...


You're right, sorry, meant that for PaulM.


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## PaulM (Apr 10, 2012)

leemell said:


> I'm getting a "page not found" when I try to go to Amsnag now. Did you take the page down?


Yes. When Amtrak.com receives a query from Amsnag's IP address, it it sends back this back. Can't do much with it.


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## Ryan (Apr 10, 2012)

What're the requirements for hosting something like this?


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## Train2104 (Apr 10, 2012)

PaulM said:


> leemell said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting a "page not found" when I try to go to Amsnag now. Did you take the page down?
> ...


What about the same exact query from another IP?


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## Ryan (Apr 10, 2012)

That's what I was getting at. I was wondering how hard it would be to turn these into something that can be run locally for personal use.


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## zephyr17 (Apr 10, 2012)

Ryan said:


> That's what I was getting at. I was wondering how hard it would be to turn these into something that can be run locally for personal use.


Yes. PaulM, would you consider letting us see your code? If it was reworked into an app that could run locally, Amtrak couldn't block it based on IP address, since there wouldn't be just one. Make it shareware.


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## PaulM (Apr 10, 2012)

> What about the same exact query from another IP?


I don't why it wouldn't work until Amtrak catches up with you.



> What're the requirements for hosting something like this?


A web server, php interpreter, and a MYSQL server. With some redesign you could get by without MYSQL.



> would you consider letting us see your code? If it was reworked into an app that could run locally, Amtrak couldn't block it based on IP address, since there wouldn't be just one. Make it shareware.


I would except I might get too many obscene comments about the spaghetti code  The URL that gets sent to Amtrak is almost 2000 characters long (that's Amtrak, not me).


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## dlagrua (Apr 10, 2012)

Plan B. We pin a post titled *Fare Assistance Snag*. Members post their train preference, accommodations desired, class, travel date range etc and with each responding post each member checks one or two dates and posts the prices.

In a company I was employed by a while ago I worked for a very shrewd manager and his favorite saying was "you show me a system and I'll show you a way to beat it". We can beat Amtrak. We have the numbers to do it. My plan is unstoppable. Let the genius IT guys try to find a way around that-LOL-LOL-LOL.


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## Steve4031 (Apr 10, 2012)

I appreciate status maps too. I use it to track unusually late trains even though I'm not on them. LOl. The maps are a major part of my day.


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## sportbiker (Apr 11, 2012)

I want to add my own thanks to both John and PaulM. Even for the low-mileage corridor trips I do, your sites are invaluable. Many thanks for your contributions to this community.


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## deimos (Apr 11, 2012)

I also want to say thanks to those who volunteer their time and services to provide these very useful web sites. I've found them to be very valuable in planning trips, particularly in understanding how often long delays occur.

Thanks again!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 11, 2012)

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Thanks again to everyone who helped build useful tools for working around Amtrak's own limitations. I'm so glad Amtrak is willing and able to save us from using tools that provide functionality Amtrak couldn't be bothered to provide themselves.


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## Trogdor (Apr 11, 2012)

Since this thread is about both Status maps and Amsnag, and people keep starting separate Amsnag threads, perhaps this thread's title should be modified.


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2012)

From John's comments, I'm not sure that Amtrak did this purposefully.


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## PRR 60 (Apr 11, 2012)

Trogdor said:


> Since this thread is about both Status maps and Amsnag, and people keep starting separate Amsnag threads, perhaps this thread's title should be modified.


We think alike. I added Amsnag to the title.


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## Railroad Bill (Apr 11, 2012)

I just tried the Amtrak status map and it seems to be working :unsure:

Still no luck with the AMSnag site


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2012)

Railroad Bill said:


> I just tried the Amtrak status map and it seems to be working :unsure:



Yes, John said he had fixed the glitch.



John Bobinyec said:


> I've initiated a change which I expect to take place in "24 to 48 hours". If it works, the maps will be back online. We'll have to wait and see.
> 
> jb
> 
> PS We're back - 9.29 a.m. 4/10/2012


Not sure if Paul is going to be able to bring Amsnag back.


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

OK. I am a longtime lurker, but I suppose that this issue has roused me to post.

I suspect Amtrak doesn't really mind the status maps that much (they've gotten much better in their on time performance after all) but HATES Amsnag. Why? It goes back to how carriers price their services.

Yield management was invented by the airlines. Economists would call it "price discrimination", which sounds nefarious but really isn't. With every product or service, there are people who are willing to pay more and people who will only buy it for less. If you charge one fixed price, you lose potential revenue from both groups.

So pricing strategies are all about trying to make it possible to charge different groups different prices. This is why supermarkets have so many club cards and coupons- the price sensitive bargain hunters can claim discounts while those who don't care will often pay full price.

The problem is, transparent pricing tends to turn everyone into a bargain hunter. The old saying in the airline industry was that the business traveler in 10A who paid $1000 could never find out that the leisure traveler next to him paid $200. Of course, that oversimplified things a bit, but the basic principle was true-- the more transparent your pricing is, the harder it is to discriminate. In industries such as Hollywood where nobody is told what anyone else is charging, price discrimination is rampant.

We've already seen airlines being forced to cut costs because the Internet made their pricing more transparent than it was when you had to call or bug a travel agent.

Amsnag took that one step further. Since multiple searches are a pain, Amtrak surely feels that some people give up and end up paying a higher fare than if they had all the data in front of them. That's why Amtrak's own site doesn't provide the Amsnag capability.

Amsnag is a threat to their business model. So they moved to shut it down.


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## jebr (Apr 11, 2012)

Lawdude said:


> OK. I am a longtime lurker, but I suppose that this issue has roused me to post.
> 
> I suspect Amtrak doesn't really mind the status maps that much (they've gotten much better in their on time performance after all) but HATES Amsnag. Why? It goes back to how carriers price their services.
> 
> ...


The thing is, on Orbitz or Travelocity I can do a +/- 3 day search, a weekend search, or searches much like what AmSnag did. Plus, I remember some people claiming on here that Amtrak information is available through the same means that those airline fares are. Could something like that be built by using that access?


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

jebr said:


> The thing is, on Orbitz or Travelocity I can do a +/- 3 day search, a weekend search, or searches much like what AmSnag did. Plus, I remember some people claiming on here that Amtrak information is available through the same means that those airline fares are. Could something like that be built by using that access?


Bear in mind that the airlines don't have a monopoly, and online aggregator sites have a lot of power (as travel agents did in the past-- indeed, Travelocity is pretty much the direct descendant of the SABRE system that travel agents used 30 years ago). The result is that most airlines feel that they have to cooperate with those sites even though they make pricing more transparent. (That said, Southwest feels it has a loyal enough customer base that they don't need to cooperate with those sites, and while it is possible to compare fares from different days on Southwest's website, it doesn't appear in the chart form that the aggregator sites use.)

Amtrak, however, has a monopoly on passenger train service, as well as a pretty loyal base of railfan customers who want to ride trains rather than use other transportation options and will pay for the privilege. This is basically the perfect storm for price discrimination.


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2012)

Lawdude said:


> Amsnag is a threat to their business model. So they moved to shut it down.


That's a bit extreme, I think. First, there's no proof that this was done intentionally. Second, a relatively unknown site that's used by a handful people comprising a tiny fraction of their customer base is hardly a "threat to their business model".

Heck, over 90% of my use of the tool was for information gathering with no immediate plans on buying a ticket, so there isn't any real lost revenue there at all. In fact, on some occasions, being able to tell people "Here's how little it can cost to take the train" has likely convinced people to select the train over other modes, so you'd have a tough time arguing that a loss of revenue drove a hypothetical decision to shut it down (_IF_ in fact that's what happened).


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## the_traveler (Apr 11, 2012)

Lawdude said:


> Amtrak, however, has a monopoly on passenger train service, as well as a pretty loyal base of railfan customers who want to ride trains rather than use other transportation options and will pay for the privilege. This is basically the perfect storm for price discrimination.


Yes, Amtrak does have a monopoly on passenger rail in the US. But I bet you can not find any other way to go directly from Anniston, AL to Wolf Point, MT except by Amtrak! (_Maybe_ by Greyhound, I don't know, but I for one would not want to sit on a bus for 4-7 days!)


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> That's a bit extreme, I think. First, there's no proof that this was done intentionally. Second, a relatively unknown site that's used by a handful people comprising a tiny fraction of their customer base is hardly a "threat to their business model".
> 
> Heck, over 90% of my use of the tool was for information gathering with no immediate plans on buying a ticket, so there isn't any real lost revenue there at all. In fact, on some occasions, being able to tell people "Here's how little it can cost to take the train" has likely convinced people to select the train over other modes, so you'd have a tough time arguing that a loss of revenue drove a hypothetical decision to shut it down (_IF_ in fact that's what happened).


I don't want to speak for Paul, but his posts certainly imply that Amtrak is doing something deliberately (i.e., you can try to do something like Amsnag yourself "until Amtrak catches up to you").

But more broadly, I don't think you should assume that the people who do yield management and who studied price discrimination in business school agree with you that something like Amsnag is no threat. The issue is that the pricing model is premised on Amtrak being able to control the amount of price transparency, and their website is very carefully designed to do that (which is why even though other travel websites offer 3 day and full month searches, Amtrak's does not). Further, Amsnag is being promoted within the railfan community, which pays those big long distance sleeper fares and is probably somewhat less sensitive to higher fares than the people who purchase coach tickets over shorter distances. In other words, Amsnag is a threat to a pretty significant revenue stream, even if it isn't that many people who are using it.


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> Yes, Amtrak does have a monopoly on passenger rail in the US. But I bet you can not find any other way to go directly from Anniston, AL to Wolf Point, MT except by Amtrak! (_Maybe_ by Greyhound, I don't know, but I for one would not want to sit on a bus for 4-7 days!)


You should understand that I am not criticizing Amtrak (or the developer of Amsnag). Amtrak has a lot of competitive disadvantages that have been exhaustively discussed. But one thing they do have is a dedicated community of people who like to take trains, strongly prefer them to other transportation options, and are willing to spend significant amounts of money to book sleeping accommodations on long distance trains. And because Amtrak is the only significant provider of that service (obviously, there are some private services here and there, but nothing comparable to Amtrak), Amtrak has some monopoly power which it can use to generate needed revenue from those customers. Amsnag at least potentially threatens their ability to do that.


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## Ispolkom (Apr 11, 2012)

the_traveler said:


> But I bet you can not find any other way to go directly from Anniston, AL to Wolf Point, MT except by Amtrak!


"Direct" is not the adjective I'd use for the Amtrak route between those two cities.

I'm waiting to see if Amtrak has actually shut out Amsnag. I never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by carelessness, and I would be a bit surprised to find Amtrak that much on the ball with regard to revenue.


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## CHamilton (Apr 11, 2012)

The travel reservation site Hipmunk does have Amtrak data, and does allow +/- 3 day searching, but its results are not as detailed as what you got with Amsnag, and the results seem to be limited to the NEC. Maybe Hipmunk can be persuaded to expand their services.


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## acelafan (Apr 11, 2012)

Ryan said:


> Lawdude said:
> 
> 
> > Amsnag is a threat to their business model. So they moved to shut it down.
> ...


That's a good point - I used amsnag on several occasions to check ticket prices to illustrate to family members how much a ticket would be...often cheaper than what they expected. I think the traffic that amsnag generated was a tiny percentage of the overall traffic to amtrak.com.


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## PRR 60 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ispolkom said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > But I bet you can not find any other way to go directly from Anniston, AL to Wolf Point, MT except by Amtrak!
> ...


LOL! Amtrak is not really the sharpest knife in the IT drawer either.

Maybe we (and I) were giving them too much credit in the savvy department when the initial reaction was that they blocked the sites intentionally.


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## printman2000 (Apr 11, 2012)

PaulM said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if Amtrak took notice of IP addresses that were doing more than a "normal" amount of requests and pulled the plug on all of them.
> ...


So, Paul, the fix for the status maps will not fix Amsnag?


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

acelafan said:


> That's a good point - I used amsnag on several occasions to check ticket prices to illustrate to family members how much a ticket would be...often cheaper than what they expected. I think the traffic that amsnag generated was a tiny percentage of the overall traffic to amtrak.com.


Pricing strategy goes beyond one purchase. Indeed, sometimes the last thing that the seller wants is for a person to decide to purchase the service at a lower price, because such purchases can create the expectation that the same price will be available again and will result in a reduction of future sales.

In Amtrak's ideal world, railfans wouldn't even know what the price buckets ARE. That's how yield management worked in the airline industry 30 years ago-- the travel agents were aware of the buckets, but passengers were not-- they had no idea if the $445 they paid to fly roundtrip from Los Angeles to Newark was the lowest fare available, a mid-range fare, or one of the highest excursion fares. Obviously, that's not possible in the age of the Internet, a fact that has helped reduce airline revenues and has led to different airline pricing strategies including a la carte pricing. Since Amtrak hasn't moved in that direction (thankfully), having less information available about the availability of different fares is still a significant aspect of Amtrak's yield management strategy.


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## zephyr17 (Apr 11, 2012)

My own theory is that it wasn't so much Amtrak not wanting to display price information, but the pattern of "hits" from Amsnag matched what could be a security threat. Each day in the query range was a hit, so Amsnag was generating a lot of hits in a very short period of time, so that the pattern clearly wasn't from a human user. The pattern could look like an attempt at a "Denial of Service" attack and it is something that could flag it to Amtrak's IT security. I think maybe Amtrak implemented some new security features that detected the pattern, and blocked the ISP that was "attacking" it.


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## Anderson (Apr 11, 2012)

Considering that it hit Amsnag and the Status Maps on two sites alike, I think you're right.


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## Lawdude (Apr 11, 2012)

Anderson said:


> Considering that it hit Amsnag and the Status Maps on two sites alike, I think you're right.


I'm skeptical, because it looks like it is pretty straightforward to get Status Maps back up and running and not so straightforward to get Amsnag going again. (And as I said, everything I know about yield management would suggest that Amtrak management would hate Amsnag, because it circumvents what was almost certainly a deliberate strategy as to how much search flexibility they have decided to allow.)


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 11, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> The pattern could look like an attempt at a "Denial of Service" attack and it is something that could flag it to Amtrak's IT security. I think maybe Amtrak implemented some new security features that detected the pattern, and blocked the ISP that was "attacking" it.


Normally a DOS attack involves hundreds or even thousands of clients with specially constructed commands and sequences intended to cause as much resource depletion as possible. AmSnag would probably look like an extremely heavy user that wasn't following the normal retrieval patterns and was ignoring images and other visual elements, but that's not the same thing as a DOS attack. Even AmSnag dropped most of the usual page elements it could still have become Amtrak's heaviest user. AmSnag would most likely not generate anywhere near enough traffic to impact a commercial scale front end, but certainly enough to be logged for further investigation. We all know that Amtrak is aware of this site and anything we put here. It's not that difficult for me to believe they decided to pull the plug on AmSnag. Maybe for security. Maybe for resource conservation. Maybe for revenue management. Or it could simply be a new firewall system or resource management system they've added or adjusted for unrelated reasons. Lots of possible answers but very little first hand information. Hopefully Paul will expand on what he has seen so far when he gets the chance.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 11, 2012)

Lawdude said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Considering that it hit Amsnag and the Status Maps on two sites alike, I think you're right.
> ...


The trouble is that it's not possible for Amsnag to use the workaround that I came up with, per se. We need to come up with a variation.

jb


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## Tumbleweed (Apr 11, 2012)

I doubt very much that Amtrak deliberately derailed (how's that for a pun?) Amsnag and/or Status Maps...they have been around for quite awhile and it seems there are quite a few Amtrak folks that are on this site and certainly are familiar with Amsnag and the Status Maps....


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## PaulM (Apr 11, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> Make it shareware.


You asked for it

I'm just a retired operations analyst who took up computer programming as a hobby, so most of this is above my pay grade. But I can say that when Amtrak.com gets a query from the IP (internet protocol) address from Amsnag's hosting service, it returns the page you now see, not the page with reservation options. Whether it was accidental or not, the IP is now on sort of a no-fly list.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 11, 2012)

PaulM said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > Make it shareware.
> ...


Paul,

I think I have a solution for you to keep Amsnag going. Please contact me offline at:

jgb at dbd01 dot com.

John Bobinyec

Moderator edit: modified e-mail.


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## ParrotRob (Apr 12, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> 1334171592[/url]' post='360154']Normally a DOS attack involves hundreds or even thousands of clients with specially constructed commands and sequences intended to cause as much resource depletion as possible. AmSnag would probably look like an extremely heavy user that wasn't following the normal retrieval patterns and was ignoring images and other visual elements, but that's not the same thing as a DOS attack. Even AmSnag dropped most of the usual page elements it could still have become Amtrak's heaviest user. AmSnag would most likely not generate anywhere near enough traffic to impact a commercial scale front end, but certainly enough to be logged for further investigation. We all know that Amtrak is aware of this site and anything we put here. It's not that difficult for me to believe they decided to pull the plug on AmSnag. Maybe for security. Maybe for resource conservation. Maybe for revenue management. Or it could simply be a new firewall system or resource management system they've added or adjusted for unrelated reasons. Lots of possible answers but very little first hand information. Hopefully Paul will expand on what he has seen so far when he gets the chance.


Not true. What you describe is a DDoS or DISTRIBUTED denial of service attack. A run of the mill DOS attack could easily be launched from a single client.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 12, 2012)

ParrotRob said:


> Not true. What you describe is a DDoS or DISTRIBUTED denial of service attack. A run of the mill DOS attack could easily be launched from a single client.


Sorry for not delving into more detail for you. AmSnag's access will still not have the signature of a NON-DISTRIBUTED DOS attack either. Yes, you can launch a NON-DISTRIBUTED DOS attack from a single client. However, unless you have access to the back end you're probably not going to be doing much damage or preventing much access to a commercial scale website and your own address will most likely be automatically blacklisted by the firewall. If you only have a single client to work with then you'd be a lot better off looking for another vector entirely. Going the NON-DISTRIBUTED DOS route with a single client isn't likely to be even minimally successful against commercial services.


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## crazyrunner (Apr 13, 2012)

PaulM said:


> You asked for it
> 
> I'm just a retired operations analyst who took up computer programming as a hobby, so most of this is above my pay grade. But I can say that when Amtrak.com gets a query from the IP (internet protocol) address from Amsnag's hosting service, it returns the page you now see, not the page with reservation options. Whether it was accidental or not, the IP is now on sort of a no-fly list.


Well sir, you did a fine job with this! Thank you for the code, I will put up on my server to see if it will work as is and report back here...


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 13, 2012)

crazyrunner said:


> PaulM said:
> 
> 
> > You asked for it
> ...


Not to discourage you, but Paul and I are working on a solution for this, which may save you a bit of trouble. We'll know in a couple of days.

jb


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## TimePeace (Apr 13, 2012)

I hit amsnag sometime today, don't remember exactly what time, and it came up and worked fine, on a short (3 day) request. But now it is down again.

Keep up the good work guys, and know that we all appreciate your efforts very much.


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## tricia (Apr 13, 2012)

May I add my voice to the chorus of "gosh we sure do appreciate past and present efforts to keep Amsnag up and running?"

If/when this is resolved and the site up and running again, I hope some final explanation (beyond just speculation) of why it went down will be posted on this forum.


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## crazyrunner (Apr 13, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Not to discourage you, but Paul and I are working on a solution for this, which may save you a bit of trouble. We'll know in a couple of days.
> 
> jb


OK, I'm just tinkering. Looking forward to seeing the "official" solution. Thanks!


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## VentureForth (Apr 16, 2012)

Just wanted to bump this as it has hit page 3 and is still an ongoing issue.

Thanks John & Paul for all your help!


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 16, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> Just wanted to bump this as it has hit page 3 and is still an ongoing issue.
> 
> Thanks John & Paul for all your help!


Thanks. We're getting close.

jb


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 16, 2012)

Seems like it should be possible to script a request from the user's PC and thus avoid having to play tricks or jump through hoops with the server's address.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 16, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Seems like it should be possible to script a request from the user's PC and thus avoid having to play tricks or jump through hoops with the server's address.


That's tricky, but possible. You'd pretty much have to rewrite it in a Java-derivative so that it would download as an "app" and run in your browser. Right now the code is written in php, which is designed to run on a server and then present the user with the result.

jb


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 17, 2012)

AmSnag

We're going two steps forward and one step back. Each scenario we come up with has its "insurmountable" pitfalls. We still have more to try out and it will take the rest of the week.

jb


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## Phil S (Apr 17, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> AmSnag
> 
> We're going two steps forward and one step back. Each scenario we come up with has its "insurmountable" pitfalls. We still have more to try out and it will take the rest of the week.
> 
> jb




John - Probably you have the arr/dep times part of the program disabled for the moment but just in case....... Message is that the server at 98.69.168.187 is not responding. Tried both IE and Firefox. -- Phil


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 17, 2012)

phil-s said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > AmSnag
> ...


It's not disabled. The address of the server changes every so often. For example, as we speak it's 98.69.165.89. You'll need to do a refresh of the map or the archive page - however you got to the train's file - and then click on the train again. Depending upon browser, you might even have to clear the cache.

jb


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 17, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> The address of the server changes every so often. For example, as we speak it's 98.69.165.89. You'll need to do a refresh of the map or the archive page - however you got to the train's file - and then click on the train again. Depending upon browser, you might even have to clear the cache.


Was this address cycling a necessary aspect of the resolution?


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 17, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > The address of the server changes every so often. For example, as we speak it's 98.69.165.89. You'll need to do a refresh of the map or the archive page - however you got to the train's file - and then click on the train again. Depending upon browser, you might even have to clear the cache.
> ...


Bingo.

If it gets to be too much of a pain for the troops, I'll put the files for the trains to dixielandsoftware.com - but that's going to take a little while. Right now we're trying to get AmSnag going again.

jb


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 18, 2012)

AmSnag,

I believe we're past the last hurdle. Paul just needs to rework it a bit, and we'll be there.

jb


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## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 18, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> AmSnag,
> 
> I believe we're past the last hurdle. Paul just needs to rework it a bit, and we'll be there.
> 
> jb


Nice to hear. It's still not working for me, but I hope you can get it through.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 19, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> John Bobinyec said:
> 
> 
> > AmSnag,
> ...


It's just now working in a testbed. Hopefully Paul will be able to git'r'done today.

jb


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## TraneMan (Apr 19, 2012)

Want to give both of you both a very big thank you for doing this!


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## PaulM (Apr 19, 2012)

fooonuAmtrak


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 19, 2012)

Just wanted to say thanks for all the work and effort to return this incredibly useful tool to proper working order.

You really and truly don't know what you've got until it's gone.



PaulM said:


> fooonuAmtrak


Not sure if that means it's ready for prime time but I gave it a whirl...

Got back some dates and costs and this thing...



> Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in C:\scripts\amSnagJB.php on line 37


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## Tumbleweed (Apr 19, 2012)

PaulM said:


> fooonuAmtrak


Lookin' good, thanks!


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 19, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for all the work and effort to return this incredibly useful tool to proper working order.
> 
> You really and truly don't know what you've got until it's gone.
> 
> ...


What was the data that you requested? How many days?

jb


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## jebr (Apr 19, 2012)

PaulM said:


> fooonuAmtrak


Working for me on a 10-day test run!


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## PaulM (Apr 19, 2012)

> Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in C:\scripts\amSnagJB.php on line 37


The solution turned out to be a Rube Goldberg contraption (a very clever on on John's part), which means response time is somewhat slower. I just tried a complicated one - CHI to LAX - and it timed out after 19 days.

I believe this can be fixed. Love all the free QA. :giggle:


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## dlagrua (Apr 19, 2012)

If hackers can get into the Pentagons system surely some can figure out a way to access information in the public domain.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 19, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Texas Sunset said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to say thanks for all the work and effort to return this incredibly useful tool to proper working order.
> ...


SAS to MRC starting Sat 05/19/12 for 30 days.


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## Blackwolf (Apr 19, 2012)

Fantastic!!! Yup, a little slower, but I'm not going to complain at all. Very much worth the wait.

Thanks a ton, you guys! I'm certain it was (and likely still is to a degree) a huge headache to get AmSnag back on line along with the Maps. It is greatly appreciated! :lol:


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 19, 2012)

Wah, can't access the "new" Amsnag on my work computer. Where else would I be motivated to plan trips. :giggle:

I know it's still a "work in progress" and appreciate all the hard work (being a programmer myself).


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## PaulM (Apr 19, 2012)

dlagrua said:


> If hackers can get into the Pentagons system surely some can figure out a way to access information in the public domain.


I'm only a hacker in the old fashioned sense of the word, like you might call a golfer a hacker. But not in the modern sinister sense.

PS I've upped the max connection time to 60 seconds from the 30 second default. If this is not enough, you may have to form 2 queries, perhaps from different windows.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 19, 2012)

:hi: Thanks Guys! It's True! It's True! It's True! (Blazzing Saddles)You meet really Interesting Folks on Amtrak and AU!!!!!


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## Ashland Train Enthusiast (Apr 19, 2012)

Paul,

As a former programmer turned manager, I appreciate the work and difficulty put into this... now if only you could get Amtrak to hire you full time to develop some of their applications.

I tried a search a few minutes ago, WAS to NOL on 1/1/13 for 30 days, and got the following result (using both Firefox 11.0 and Chrome 18.0.1025.162):





(click the link for the full screen picture)

I tried some other searches with variable success:

Keeping the same dates, but changing the stations worked (WAS to WBG, 1/1/13 for 30 days gave back a full listing of results)

Same stations, but different dates also worked (WAS to NOL, 5/1/12 for 30 days gave back a full page of results)

Different stations on different dates didn't work (WAS to HFY, 5/1/12 for 30 days gave the same error as above)

Hope this helps, and feel free to PM me directly if there's any other troubleshooting or assistance I could provide.

~ DCTE

[EDIT for spelling and to correct the link]


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## leemell (Apr 19, 2012)

As a former programmer/system tester/system engineer/manager you have my gratitude as well. I know full the kind of difficulties you faced and overcame. Thank you very much.


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## dlagrua (Apr 19, 2012)

Paul and John you guys are the best! Thanks so much for restoring this important fare resource. If I may make a suggestion to all who use it; try to keep the search to a weeks worth of fares so that the fare finder doesn't get overloaded with hits. It would be great if we could keep Amsnag "below the radar".


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## Dovecote (Apr 19, 2012)

Paul and John,

A big thank you for getting this fixed. You guys have a free drink (soft or hard) on me if we ever meet on the rails.


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## Phil S (Apr 19, 2012)

It's working! Thank you Wurfsendungen! (and John)


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## jebr (Apr 19, 2012)

Dovecote said:


> Paul and John,
> 
> A big thank you for getting this fixed. You guys have a free drink (soft or hard) on me if we ever meet on the rails.


Same here (except, if I meet you within the next year, it'll have to be soft. Can't buy hard drinks when I'm under 21!)


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## C&O RR (Apr 19, 2012)

Thank you for all of your hard work!


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 19, 2012)

dlagrua said:


> Paul and John you guys are the best! Thanks so much for restoring this important fare resource. If I may make a suggestion to all who use it; try to keep the search to a weeks worth of fares so that the fare finder doesn't get overloaded with hits. It would be great if we could keep Amsnag "below the radar".


You don't need to worry about this. Search all you want.

jb


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## TraneMan (Apr 20, 2012)

I am not able to do 30 days. have to do 15 days.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 20, 2012)

TraneMan said:


> I am not able to do 30 days. have to do 15 days.


That may be an unfortunate fact of life. The communications is much slower where my server is (although I have the fastest dsl you can get) than they were at the commercial site where AmSnag was located before. We continue to monitor performance issues and will make improvements, if we can.

jb


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## jccpbc (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks for getting Amsnag back up. I use it often.


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## Hanno (Apr 20, 2012)

I would like to echo the comments of others and also let you know how much I appreciate and use this very valuable resource. Thanks for your efforts!


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 20, 2012)

May I suggest to the moderators that this thread be closed. The original issue has been resolved. Things are more or less running again. Anything else, IMHO, should be covered in a new topic.

Thanks,

jb


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## AlanB (Apr 20, 2012)

Since most of the posts on the last page have simply been posts thanking you guys for your hard work, I'm inclined to let this stay open for a while for those who do wish to express their thanks.


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## John Bobinyec (Apr 20, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Since most of the posts on the last page have simply been posts thanking you guys for your hard work, I'm inclined to let this stay open for a while for those who do wish to express their thanks.


:blush:

jb


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## JayPea (Apr 20, 2012)

And I wish to thank both John and Paul as well. Thanks for your hard work!


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## Rail Freak (Apr 20, 2012)

DITTO!!!


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## jb64 (Apr 20, 2012)

ditto from me, too


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## TimePeace (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes - thanks a lot, we use it too... much appreciated.


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## white rabbitt (Apr 20, 2012)

JayPea said:


> And I wish to thank both John and Paul as well. Thanks for your hard work!


and ringo to


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## Grandpa D (Apr 20, 2012)

wabbitt said:


> JayPea said:
> 
> 
> > And I wish to thank both John and Paul as well. Thanks for your hard work!
> ...


What about George, the quiet one?

:giggle:


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## GG-1 (Apr 20, 2012)

Grandpa D said:


> wabbitt said:
> 
> 
> > JayPea said:
> ...


Asleep 

Aloha


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## Doug (May 9, 2012)

Amsnag down today-5.9.12 at noon.


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## John Bobinyec (May 9, 2012)

Doug said:


> Amsnag down today-5.9.12 at noon.


I've checked some log files. I don't see anything going on. Was it Noon EDT EXACTLY? Anyway, it seems to be working now. If it is still not working, please post again.

jb


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 9, 2012)

For the past few days, Amsnag has not been working for me. Then I checked today and it's working again.


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## Ozark Southern (May 10, 2012)

Checked again just now, and it's working again for me too. Thank you, this is such an excellent resource.


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## The Davy Crockett (May 10, 2012)

Things have been a bit crazed for me lately, so I've been distracted, but I'm very grateful the status maps and AMSNAG are up and running again. A belated *THANKS!* IMHO John and Paul ought to be making at least twice what they do now for all the hard work and knowledge they put into this.


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 10, 2012)

Oh, god, this is bad! Amsnag is down again for me! Shows up like this:

*Warning*: include(common/mysql.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *27*

*Warning*: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'common/mysql.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php-5.2.17/lib/php') in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *27*

*Warning*: include(common/functions.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *28*

*Warning*: include() [function.include]: Failed opening 'common/functions.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php-5.2.17/lib/php') in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *28*

*Fatal error*: Call to undefined function openDB() in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *29*

What is this supposed to mean?


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## John Bobinyec (May 10, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Oh, god, this is bad! Amsnag is down again for me! Shows up like this:
> 
> *Warning*: include(common/mysql.php) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in */hermes/bosweb/web201/b2011/nf.biketrain/public_html/amsnag/amSnag.php* on line *27*
> 
> ...


Good question. Double check your bookmark. It should be http://biketrain.net/fooonuAmtrak/amSnag.php .

It's working for me, so I'm baffled.

jb


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## JayPea (May 10, 2012)

John Bobinyec said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, god, this is bad! Amsnag is down again for me! Shows up like this:
> ...



Funny thing. I got the same gobbledygook when I tried Amsnag. But after using the above URL, it worked fine. What is funny is that the above URL is different than the one I had saved, from the time I first heard about Amsnag, which worked up until yesterday. Ah, well. I've deleted the first URL, copied and saved the new one, and all is well again.


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## The Davy Crockett (May 11, 2012)

JayPea said:


> Funny thing. I got the same gobbledygook when I tried Amsnag. But after using the above URL, it worked fine. What is funny is that the above URL is different than the one I had saved, from the time I first heard about Amsnag, which worked up until yesterday. Ah, well. I've deleted the first URL, copied and saved the new one, and all is well again.


I just tried my old link and had a similar experience as well. The new link works fine.


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## Swadian Hardcore (May 11, 2012)

John's URL is different from the URL I had.

Mine was: http://biketrain.netfirms.com/amsnag/amSnag.php

John provided: http://biketrain.net/fooonuAmtrak/amSnag.php

Why are there so many URLs?


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## John Bobinyec (May 11, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> John's URL is different from the URL I had.
> 
> Mine was: http://biketrain.netfirms.com/amsnag/amSnag.php
> 
> ...


Well, of course there is the original one that you had. When everything broke down last month Amsnag had to move to a different server. Paul created a new URL to do that. He implemented a forwarding mechanism at the old URL. Apparently, this mechanism worked up until yesterday, but then something changed. Only Paul could answer as to what that might have been.

jb


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## PaulM (May 11, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Why are there so many URLs?


The simplest url is

biketrain.net/amsnag/

and should do it every time. It automatically retrieves the default page biketrain.net/amsnag/index.htm. index.htm then redirects it to the real thing. The redirect is just to make typing the url simpler. At least I found it useful while I was debugging it.

Originally, index.htm pointed to biketrain.net/amsnag/amSnag.php.

But the real program has been moved to John's server. Now biketrain.net/amsnag/ which is the same as biketrain.net/amsnag/index.htm points to biketrain.net/fooonuAmtrak/amSnag.php which sucks the results from amSnag.php on John's server.

I may have fooled around with the original script at biketrain.net/amsnag/amSnag.php, which could have caused the bug you experienced. If not the bug, you would have gotten the fooonu page from Amtrak. Bottom line: use

biketrain.net/fooonuAmtrak/amSnag.php

or simply

biketrain.net/amsnag/

Or to put it another way biketrain.net/amsnag/ worked then and works now, but not biketrain.net/amsnag/amSnag.php.

If that isn't as clear as mud, someone has suggested patenting something like amsnag.net and and pointing it to the real thing. Be my guest. I'll be glad to supply any info you need.


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## Ryan (May 11, 2012)

http://amsnag.net is now live, and forwards to biketrain.net/amsnag/

Paul, if you move things and want it to point somewhere else, let me know and I'll swap it over.


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## CHamilton (May 12, 2012)

John and I have set up http://statusmaps.net/ too. http://www.statusmaps.net/ also works. Please bookmark these locations, and if it's ever necessary to move the apps again, we'll be able to do it without worrying about a new address.


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## PaulM (May 12, 2012)

Ryan said:


> http://amsnag.net is now live, and forwards to biketrain.net/amsnag/
> 
> Paul, if you move things and want it to point somewhere else, let me know and I'll swap it over.


Aber sicher!


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## amtrakwolverine (May 22, 2012)

The status map is not working at http://trainweb.com/accounts/railstatus/ I enter the the date a train number then I get



> The server at 72.148.42.113 is taking too long to respond.


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## anir dendroica (May 23, 2012)

The status maps (http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/) are working, and I can see details if I click on a train. I've never used the railstatus page before but it does indeed seem to be down.



amtrakwolverine said:


> The status map is not working at http://trainweb.com/accounts/railstatus/ I enter the the date a train number then I get
> 
> 
> 
> > The server at 72.148.42.113 is taking too long to respond.


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## John Bobinyec (May 23, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> The status map is not working at http://trainweb.com/accounts/railstatus/ I enter the the date a train number then I get
> 
> 
> 
> > The server at 72.148.42.113 is taking too long to respond.


I sent a note to the owner of RailStatus.com to update the page.

jb


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## spock74 (Aug 6, 2012)

I LOVE this service and thank you so much for providing it! I thought you might like to know, though, that the AmSnag thread in the First Time Riders forum still points to the old page. Keep up the great work!!


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