# bye to my BOA card



## CoachSlumber (Oct 12, 2018)

My AGR card was coming up for renewal this month, and having just taken a trip on the Chief (which was fantastic!), and not having any planned in the near future, I decided to drop the card. I'm just not seeing the value any more. Even if the AGR points aren't technically devalued, if you have to use a slew of them to do a roomette on the LSL and get a cold box dinner as your dining experience, what are those points really worth--because who knows how much more and how soon Amtrak will be dismantled? The coupons that come with the annual renewal aren't worth much to me; I do overnights in sleepers, and I find the rules for the coach coupons so convoluted and exception heavy, I don't have the patience to try to use them to make the fee worthwhile.

I'm afraid after 30 years of riding along with beloved Amtrak, I am pessimistic.

And I am glad to be done with BOA. Even though my agreement explicit said I could cancel the card this month, the snotty woman on the phone at first defiantly told me too bad, you're paying the fee, until I got her to read along with me the Agreement Letter AGR/BOA sent me in September. That's the thanks they give me for being a customer of the card , and for having had a BOA mortgage for some years.

Happy rails everyone!


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## Pere Flyer (Oct 12, 2018)

Your decision seems based in sound reasoning. YMMV


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2018)

I agree that if you're not going to use it a lot, there are much better Cards available for Travel and other uses.

Chase has some excellent Cards on offer!


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## bratkinson (Oct 12, 2018)

CoachSlumber said:


> My AGR card was coming up for renewal this month, and having just taken a trip on the Chief (which was fantastic!), and not having any planned in the near future, I decided to drop the card. I'm just not seeing the value any more. Even if the AGR points aren't technically devalued, if you have to use a slew of them to do a roomette on the LSL and get a cold box dinner as your dining experience, what are those points really worth--because who knows how much more and how soon Amtrak will be dismantled? The coupons that come with the annual renewal aren't worth much to me; I do overnights in sleepers, and I find the rules for the coach coupons so convoluted and exception heavy, I don't have the patience to try to use them to make the fee worthwhile.


Since you chose to use a roomette on the LSL and use a 'slew' of points, I decided to do some math... (Disclaimer: I've worked through the numbers 3 times and made changes every time. Please don't shoot me if my calculations are STILL in error!)

I just used Amsnag to check the fares of a roomette with one adult on the LSL NYP -> CHI for the month of February. Trying to use any dates closer would reflect the escalating prices as the holiday travel season approaches. As of 2 minutes ago, every departure from NYP for a roomette shows $340, so that's what I'll use. As a side note, prices are hitting $660 for a roomette during December.

$340 ticket yields: 340x3 = 1020 points compliments of using the BofA Amtrak card (fee based)

+ 340x2 = 680 points when you actually travel from Amtrak Guest Rewards

total: 1700 points

Using the 'standard' 34.5 points per fare dollar redemption rate 34.5 x 340 = 11730 points. I just now confirmed this via the Amtrak site getting the fare in points for a February trip.

Now, how many trips does it take to get a free one? 11730 / 1700 = 6.9 (call it 7) trips to get a free trip. Hardly the 'buy two get one free' at your local supermarket. But then, your supermarket intentionally loses maybe a dollar if all you buy is the 3 bags of potatos, or whatever. But they actually MAKE $10 or more profit as most shoppers will buy another $50 or more of groceries just to save a buck on the potatoes.

But with AGR, you're not 'locked in' to making 7 trips to get a freebie. Suppose you make two of those trips during 'double points' days, which run for about 2 months apiece, twice per year (one in effect right now!) resulting in an additional 680 points for each of those two trips. Now it's 6.1 trips to get a freebie.

And if you've ridden with Amtrak enough to get 4K points and spent $5K or more to get an extra 1K TQPs from BoA, to make it to AGR 'Select' status, you get and extra 25% points for every trip. So, that works out as follows:

1 ticket yields = 1700 points (includes 3 pts / $ from credit card)

+ 25% AGR Select bonus points (340 x 2 x 0.25) = 170 points

total = 1870 points

Using 11730 points to get a free ticket = 11730 / 1870 = 6.27 trips to get a free trip.

If two of those trips were during double days, that's an extra 810 points (340 x 2 = 640 + (640 x 0.25 = 170)) for each of those 2 trips, now it's down to 5.5 trips to get a freebie.

Don't look now, but 5.5 trips/freebie works out to an 18.2% return on your 'investment'. Not too shabby. And unlike various other rewards programs, your accumulated points don't vanish by themselves every year, as long as you take a trip every now and then and/or use the CC.

As for the freebie upgrades and companion coupons, it's pretty straight forward. The upgrades can only be used for full fare (Value) tickets. I don't recall if buying the ticket as a senior requires a couple extra bucks or buying it as Saver requires a couple bucks when making the upgrade. About 1/2 the time I get it right, the rest of the time, it's another $5-10 to do the upgrade to business class. I've only used the upgrades on Acela business class to first class 3 times, but that was some years back. Upgrading to sleepers is not allowed, and, like the airlines, blackout dates around holidays don't permit upgrades, either. I've never used my companion coupons, but I think they follow the same rules as upgrades except they don't have a close-to-departure time limitation.

In all, I'm very satisfied with my BofA AGR credit card. I just wish they'd stop sending me blank checks on that account that if they fall into wrong hands, they've got a windfall. That's why I tear them in half with one half to recycle and the other in the trash.


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## Rail Freak (Oct 13, 2018)

What does the agreement say about canceling the card?


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## me_little_me (Oct 13, 2018)

I simply,before canceling the $$ card,signed up for the freebie one and got my bonus points on it, too. Then I called and canceled the pay card when it was due for renewal. When I had a second problem with BoA, I stopped using that one except for paid Amtrak travel. They're not making much on me any more.


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## CoachSlumber (Oct 14, 2018)

Rail Freak said:


> What does the agreement say about canceling the card?


It says if you cancel it within 30 days of receiving the renewal fee statement, you don’t pay the fee. The phone agent at first disputed this and insisted that once that fee was on my statement, I owed it. She was ridiculously wrong and finally admitted it.


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## CoachSlumber (Oct 14, 2018)

bratkinson said:


> CoachSlumber said:
> 
> 
> > My AGR card was coming up for renewal this month, and having just taken a trip on the Chief (which was fantastic!), and not having any planned in the near future, I decided to drop the card. I'm just not seeing the value any more. Even if the AGR points aren't technically devalued, if you have to use a slew of them to do a roomette on the LSL and get a cold box dinner as your dining experience, what are those points really worth--because who knows how much more and how soon Amtrak will be dismantled? The coupons that come with the annual renewal aren't worth much to me; I do overnights in sleepers, and I find the rules for the coach coupons so convoluted and exception heavy, I don't have the patience to try to use them to make the fee worthwhile.
> ...


Yes, but my real deciding factor is I don’t hav faith the travel product will be there when I want to use the points, however handsomely they are earned. Already the LSL and Capitol are not trains I want to ride any more, even though those are routes I like to use.


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## bratkinson (Oct 14, 2018)

CoachSlumber said:


> Yes, but my real deciding factor is I don’t hav faith the travel product will be there when I want to use the points, however handsomely they are earned. Already the LSL and Capitol are not trains I want to ride any more, even though those are routes I like to use.


I'm still hesitant about what dining car experiences will be next summer when I typically burn all my points and some cash for an 8-10 night Amtrak joyride. So about 2 months ago, I used points a roomette on the Silver Meteor and another on the Cardinal. I've already accumulated another 30K points and I'm debating on using them now or saving them for summer.


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## cpotisch (Oct 15, 2018)

CoachSlumber said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > What does the agreement say about canceling the card?
> ...


So would it be possible to get the card, spend $1K, receive the 30,000 points, and cancel the card, all without paying the fee?


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## jebr (Oct 15, 2018)

I doubt it. When you sign up, I'd imagine that the T&C require paying the first year's fee on the first bill (without a way to waive it, especially if you've used it enough to get the sign-up bonus.) It's more for future years, where upon renewal the annual fee is charged.


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## Palmetto (Oct 15, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> CoachSlumber said:
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> > Rail Freak said:
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The fee is posted immediately on your first bill. At least, that was the case with me.


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## Rail Freak (Oct 15, 2018)

Me too! I just got my card (& Pts.) a few months ago> Do you think I'd get any grief to cancel it?


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## cpotisch (Oct 15, 2018)

Palmetto said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > CoachSlumber said:
> ...


But you get the fee back if you cancel within 30 days though, right?


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## CoachSlumber (Oct 16, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > cpotisch said:
> ...


I can't speak to what happens if you first sign up, use it, and then drop it. My case involved a renewal, so there was no signup bonus involved. They might have a separate provision for that.


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## GBNorman (Oct 17, 2018)

I'm still waiting for a recognized charity to partner up with Guest Rewards so that my 16585 points will have a worthy home.

My 24025 United points (miles in airlinespeak) are about to "takeoff" to Fisher House - a military support charity.

The United points have no cash value attached to them (wow, what a can of worms would be opened, i.e. try a redemption of 'em giving rise to a taxable event) so no charitable contribution under IRC Sec 167 arises.

It seems both my bank issued cards, BofAMC and Cap1V, no longer offer point redemptions to charities. Why I know not. My American Express (Senior Gold - a "gift" for having held one through your working life) does not have any rewards.

From the narratives here, it appears Guest Rewards has gone from a very liberal to a very tightwad program.


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## lordsigma (Oct 21, 2018)

I like my BoA AGR card, but I do live on the Springfield line (from Springfield I can take a train in all 4 directions) and have good connectvity to the NEC as a result and travel to NYC and WAS fairly frequently (in addition to the occasional long distance trip - most commonly auto train) so its worth it to me. I will also add though I hate flying (and have somewhat of a fear of flying) so they do have me as a captive audience somewhat even with the dining changes that Im not too happy about.


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