# Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks



## CHamilton (Nov 15, 2015)

Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

Everything you always (maybe) wanted to know about interlockings, signaling, and CBTC.


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## jis (Nov 15, 2015)

And somehow the Londoners and Parisians have had these features seemingly forever. At the end of the day it is a colossal failure of management and political will. It is no different underground from the state of affairs over ground. Clueless managers and executives trying tog et some whiz bang done for real cheap by people who are not really upto the task. but of course the managers and executives themselves are not upto the task to know that. And the circle goes on.


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 15, 2015)

jis said:


> And somehow the Londoners and Parisians have had these features seemingly forever. At the end of the day it is a colossal failure of management and political will. It is no different underground from the state of affairs over ground. Clueless managers and executives trying tog et some whiz bang done for real cheap by people who are not really upto the task. but of course the managers and executives themselves are not upto the task to know that. And the circle goes on.


Do you have 20 Billion dollars to lend them?


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## jis (Nov 15, 2015)

Of course not, and it does not take $20 billion to do it except when people don't seem to know what they are doing apparently.  But the fact that it was possible for London and Paris to pull it off and New York not, says something about New York and frankly it is not my problem anymore, as it was a few years back. I live a thousand miles away from it and seldom use it any more.


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## Eric S (Nov 15, 2015)

If only New York could figure out how to build and buy things at London prices (or better yet, Paris prices) instead of ridiculously-inflated prices it pays for seemingly every infrastructure project...

Not that the rest of the US is particularly good at this either - most of the US is bad, New York is pathetically bad.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 7, 2015)

What is this London and Paris stuff?

Most Subways in America have countdown clocks. I was in DC, Boston, and Chicago not that long ago. Most stops have countdown clocks. The MBTA's greenline and Mattapan doesnt, but thats more of a trolley.

and in NYC, the "numbered" subways mostly do. NYC has the largest subway network in the world.... and its NYC. Its all being upgraded at a slow, expensive pace. No big surprised there.


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## jis (Dec 7, 2015)

But Paris actually had it way before any legacy system in US got to it. I don't exactly remember when London got theirs.


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## trainman74 (Dec 7, 2015)

jis said:


> I don't exactly remember when London got theirs.


I remember the Northern Line having countdown clocks on my first visit to London, in the summer of 1984.


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## jis (Dec 7, 2015)

So that places London also way before anything in the US.


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## MattW (Dec 7, 2015)

Atlantas' never work :unsure:


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## seat38a (Dec 10, 2015)

Thirdrail7 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > And somehow the Londoners and Parisians have had these features seemingly forever. At the end of the day it is a colossal failure of management and political will. It is no different underground from the state of affairs over ground. Clueless managers and executives trying tog et some whiz bang done for real cheap by people who are not really upto the task. but of course the managers and executives themselves are not upto the task to know that. And the circle goes on.
> ...


According to the article it is NOT $20 billion, but overinflated because of LABOR. All those old switches and signals has a person handling and getting paid. No one wants to loose their job to a computer.


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## Thirdrail7 (Dec 10, 2015)

seat38a said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > jis said:
> ...


From the article:

*The Canarsie Line running from 8th Avenue in Manhattan to the Canarsie neighborhood in southeast Brooklyn was chosen to pilot the technology. It was one of the oldest lines in New York, starting life as a steam railroad in the early 1900s, but seemed ideal as a test case: It was completely isolated from the rest of the system, with just one line, the L, running along it; it was shorter than most other lines; and it had relatively low rider volume.*

*Work began in 1999. It wouldn’t be fully operational until 2011. At the current pace of installation, the subway system as a whole won’t be converted to CBTC for another 175 years. It will cost $20 billion.*

After the fiasco with the Ocean View, I realize that attempts at humor on this board will fall flat. Unfortunately, I made this post well before that incident and I was addressing Jis, who has dealt with me on multiple boards.

When this post was made, I was looking at the figure the article posted above for the estimated cost of completion and suggested to Jis, that if he has 20 Billion dollars to lend them, perhaps the countdown clocks would come quicker since they would not have an excuse.

It was meant to be humorous.

It was meant for Jis, who (I believe) "gets" me.

I'd type something to let people know to take it lightly, but we all see how that turned out.

Thank you for your comments and concerns, Seat38A. Next time, I will send a PM.


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## jis (Dec 11, 2015)

Yep. Thirdrail. I do get you on that one.


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