# An event that changed the world of transportation forever



## jis (Feb 9, 2014)

45 years ago on this day the Queen of the Skies (Boeing 747) took to its wings on its maiden flight at Everett WA. This event changed the world of transportation forever. It was the culmination of the dreams of two dreamers - Juan Tripp (Pan Am) and Bill Boeing (Boeing) - of bringing flying within the reach of the middle class.







An interesting article on this in _The Atlantic_


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## the_traveler (Feb 9, 2014)

jis said:


> Juan Tripp (Pan Am)


With a name of Tripp, he would have to work in the travel industry! :giggle:


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## beautifulplanet (Feb 9, 2014)

I thought now the Queen of the Skies was the Airbus A380... 

See here: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/a-winning-formula-a380-the-new-queen-of-the-skies/

One could assume a lot of people would wish it was possible for planes to be more environmentally friendly aka better for the people and the planet. Until then, many people think there's just the choice to make up for the pollution caused by air travel that can't be reasonably replaced with high-speed rail by reducing the pollution caused in all other sectors of society even more than one normally would have...


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## MrFSS (Feb 9, 2014)

Of all the years I flew on business and some personal, probably over 500,000 miles, I never flew on one of those things. DC-10 was as close as I got.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 9, 2014)

Still my favourite plane. Too bad Pan Am is dead now and the 747 is dying, but at least the 747 has come a long way. They'll probably stick around as long as the B-52. Good old Boeing engineering.


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## WhoozOn1st (Feb 9, 2014)

MrFSS said:


> I never flew on one of those things. DC-10 was as close as I got.


You haven't missed a whole lot, though the 747 is a fine ride (by the window, anyway). A couple major jetliner types I've never flown are the L-1011 and 707. I recall being thrilled once to learn I'd be riding a DC-8, cuz I hadn't known any were still flying at the time. Once aboard, though, the main impression was "Jeez, it's really cramped in here!" I probably would've gone mental on a Concorde.


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## the_traveler (Feb 9, 2014)

I've flown on a 747, L1011, 707 and DC-8 - but never a DC-10 or DC-11. I think my favorite was the 707 - but they were noisy and very polluting.


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## MrFSS (Feb 9, 2014)

WhoozOn1st said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > I never flew on one of those things. DC-10 was as close as I got.
> ...


Patrick - I remember my very first flight. On a TWA Super Constellation from SDF (Louisville) to Midway when Midway was the only commercial airport in Chicago! Now that was a plane!


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## trainman74 (Feb 9, 2014)

I flew a British Airways 747 from Heathrow to JFK in 1984, and then United Airlines 747s in 2009 from San Francisco-Sydney and Melbourne-Los Angeles. I think they're more impressive from the outside than they are on the inside (granted, I wasn't in first or business class on any of those trips).


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## Ryan (Feb 9, 2014)

What's the cheapest and easiest way to get a flight on one of these birds?


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## tp49 (Feb 9, 2014)

I flew in the upper deck of a 747 a few years back and while I enjoy business class and the amenities, honestly I didn't enjoy being on the UD. I like my window seat but the curvature of the fuselage put too much space between the seat and the window to comfortably look out, though the storage space between the seat and the window was quite nice.

I've been on most of the major aircraft types of the jet age save for the 707; DC-8 and DC-10 and MD-11.


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## Blackwolf (Feb 9, 2014)

Still waiting for my chance to fly in a true Jumbo Jet. But, at the rate I'm going, I may miss the 747 entirely.

I've done pretty well for only flying once or twice a year. (Commercially, at least.)

Boeing:


B-717
B-727
B-737
B-757
B-767
B-777
McDonnell Douglas/Douglas:


DC-6
DC-8
DC-9
DC-10
MD-11
MD-80
MD-82
Lockheed:


L-1011

And now for an off-the-wall aircraft!

Grumman:


S-2-T Tracker
North American Rockwell


OV-10 Bronco
Bell-Textron


UH-1H Huey Model H


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## PerRock (Feb 9, 2014)

Jeeze I feel kinda lucky now. I've flown on 6 747s over my life so far. They "easiest" way to get on one (although still pretty expensive) is to fly across the pacific; that's where most of my miles in them have been logged.

peter


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## tp49 (Feb 9, 2014)

RyanS said:


> What's the cheapest and easiest way to get a flight on one of these birds?


Just thinking off the top of my head there might (stress might) still be someone flying to Europe out of IAD who uses the 747, otherwise you'd probably be looking at a flight to Europe out of JFK for cheapest and easiest. You'd have to look at the actual schedules to find one (I think one or two of the BA flights JFK-LHR are 747).

You used to be able to fly them domestically as my first ride on one was from ORD-SFO back in the late 90's but those don't happen anymore. Otherwise any other time I've been on one has been a trans-pac out of SFO, except for the flight I mention above which was from BKK-TPE on an award redemption.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 9, 2014)

_*KLM*_ is still pushing a couple MadDog 11s but right off hand I do not know which routes.


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## jis (Feb 9, 2014)

beautifulplanet said:


> I thought now the Queen of the Skies was the Airbus A380...
> 
> See here: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/a-winning-formula-a380-the-new-queen-of-the-skies/


Airbus wished it were so. But that pretty large plane is usually referred to as the "Whale of the Skies"  You should have seen the lengthy flamefest on airliner.net. It was fun to watch.



RyanS said:


> What's the cheapest and easiest way to get a flight on one of these birds?


I am afraid you will have to go international. Eg.
DL DTW - NRT, JFK - NRT, JFK - TLV etc.

UA SFO - SYD, SFO - HKG, SFO - NRT etc.

You can do RT to Hong Kong for less than a thousand dollars!

These days to get on the newest 747 I do DEL - FRA - EWR by Lufthansa/United. The DEL - FRA leg is flown by a 747-8, and is also co-listed by United. Lovely plane, specially up front upstairs.

OTOH to get on a 380 Whale jet I'd do CCU or DEL - DXB - JFK by Emirates. DXB - JFK is 380 twice a day. You can do it even to Paris of Frankfurt by Air France and Lufthansa respectively out of JFK.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 9, 2014)

I've been fortunate enough to have flown several times on 747s, Both Domestic and Overseas, including Back in the Good Old Days of Aviation when the Upstairs Lounge on a 747 was "The Place" to be! 

The Joy Ride Flight I took on the Air France Concorde to Mexico City from Miami was a One time Thrill, (Braniff also Briefly flew one out of DFW) but being Fairly Tall I wouln't have wanted to be a Regular on these Toy Airplanes crossing the Pond! They were Very Cramped with Narrow Aisles and Seats that were as Uncomfortable as Today's Cattle Car Seats in Coach!! :help: (And the Flight wasnt much Faster, the Concorde had to be Sub-sonic over Land, could only "Open it Up over Water!") But the Food and Drink and Stewardesses were World Class! :wub: (No Sexism meant, they actually were called that Back in the Day, not "Flight Crew"!  )


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## Trogdor (Feb 9, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> _*KLM*_ is still pushing a couple MadDog 11s but right off hand I do not know which routes.


They are flying them out of Canada, YYZ (Toronto) and YUL (Montreal). Those are reported to be the last routes for the MD-11 before their retirement this fall.


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## Trogdor (Feb 9, 2014)

RyanS said:


> What's the cheapest and easiest way to get a flight on one of these birds?


Follow threads on airliners.net (or maybe the UA or DL forums on flyertalk.com) and look for reports of them doing domestic flights. I think Delta flew a bunch domestically around the holidays.

Neither of them, as far as I know, currently have one in a regular domestic schedule.

Lufthansa is a good bet to fly either a 747-400 or the new 747-8 into Europe.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 9, 2014)

The _cheapest_ way to fly a 747 is on a domestic positioning move, but that takes a lot of effort and luck to end up on the right flight. The _easiest_ way to fly a 747 is over the Pacific, but you're looking at $1,000+ per seat in my experience. However, with the introduction of the 748 there is really no reason to rush anymore. The 707 and L-1011 are done. Now it's the DC-10's turn. I'd focus on that if you haven't already flown one. The only plane I truly regret not flying is the Concorde.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 9, 2014)

When flying on a 747 the engines are always really loud, especially on that long takeoff roll. It's fun to fly on one but not very comfortable unless you're going for Business or First. Night flights on them are bad, day flights are great. It's nice to see the ocean from 35,000 feet once in a while unless there's lots of cloud cover.

If you're flying international, make sure you take off in the morning from your departure city so that you don't have to sleep on the plane. You have to deal with jet lag anyway but I'd rather deal with it on the ground then on the plane. Don't expect to sleep.

Always go for a window seat, the middle block is HORRORS in my opinion, on any widebody.


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## beautifulplanet (Feb 9, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> When flying on a 747 the engines are always really loud, especially on that long takeoff roll. [...] Night flights on them are bad, day flights are great. [...]
> 
> If you're flying international, make sure you take off in the morning from your departure city so that you don't have to sleep on the plane. You have to deal with jet lag anyway but I'd rather deal with it on the ground then on the plane. Don't expect to sleep.


I agree, in case there's no chance to opt for rail travel, and there is no real alternative but to fly, like when crossing the atlantic, then dayflights are wonderful.

Still, when it comes to trans-atlantic dayflights, they are only available to LHR (London Heathrow), and only from ORD (Chicago), IAD (Washington), EWR/JFK (Newark/New York) and BOS (Boston).

And the only one of all of those, that AFAIK actually is carried out by a 747, is the British Airways one from JFK at 8.30 in the morning.

Currently, that round trip in Economy would be about $890 per person.

And after all, there's the tube right at Heathrow to get to London St. Pancras. From there, there's the Eurostar high-speed rail to Brussels or Paris taking as little as 2h 18mins. From Brussels or Paris, there is the Thalys or TGV or ICE high-speed rail to...


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## jis (Feb 9, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> If you're flying international, make sure you take off in the morning from your departure city so that you don't have to sleep on the plane. You have to deal with jet lag anyway but I'd rather deal with it on the ground then on the plane. Don't expect to sleep.
> 
> Always go for a window seat, the middle block is HORRORS in my opinion, on any widebody.


Hmm, I guess each according to their wish and taste. My preference is to leave in the evening and arrive in the morning when flying east. Does not eat up an entire day. Late afternoon flights that arrive late in the evening when flying west.
Of course when you are doing 15 hour non-stop to India all such rules get tossed out and you get what you get. typically, it is leave one evening and arrive about the same time (IST) in India. On the way back, leave late at night and arrive early in the morning into New York.

On LD flights, my preference in coach is aisle seat, or a bulkhead window seat. I do not like non-bulkhead window seats in coach. In Business any window seat is my preference.

My preference also in general is non stop flight to wherever I am going. If distance does not allow non-stop then at most one stop. I'd pay some premium to get non stop over a cheaper one stop.

This from someone who still flies close to or a bit over 100,000 miles per year.


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## tp49 (Feb 9, 2014)

jis said:


> OTOH to get on a 380 Whale jet I'd do CCU or DEL - DXB - JFK by Emirates. DXB - JFK is 380 twice a day. You can do it even to Paris of Frankfurt by Air France and Lufthansa respectively out of JFK.


IIRC the Singapore flight from JFK-Frankfurt is also on a 380.


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## jis (Feb 9, 2014)

Singapore was planning to revert that back to 77W. Don't know if they did that.


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## railiner (Feb 9, 2014)

The 747 did indeed have a major impact on the world of flying, when it was introduced. The A380, while considerably larger, did not have nearly the same impact when it was introduced. For one thing, due to changing markets, the 380 is viable on very few routes, compared to the 747 when it was introduced.

My first flight on a Jumbo was a very short one....Air Canada from Montreal to Toronto...the flight then continued on to Vancouver. I paid for a first class seat, to get the very front window seat, thinking the curvature of the fuselage at that point could possibly give a 'sliver' of a forward view, if you pressed your face to the window....it didn't.

As for how long these will remain in passenger service.....who knows? While the 747-8 'should' be around for another 20 years or so....who knows whether they will be carrying passenger's or pallet's......look at what happened to the MD-11.....

My only flight on a 747-400 was on a Cathay Pacific flight from Hong Kong to London. On it I got to see the "second upper deck"....actually the cabin crews rest bunks located in the rear, above the coach seat cabin.


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## Trogdor (Feb 9, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> The _cheapest_ way to fly a 747 is on a domestic positioning move, but that takes a lot of effort and luck to end up on the right flight. The _easiest_ way to fly a 747 is over the Pacific, but you're looking at $1,000+ per seat in my experience. However, with the introduction of the 748 there is really no reason to rush anymore. The 707 and L-1011 are done. Now it's the DC-10's turn. I'd focus on that if you haven't already flown one. The only plane I truly regret not flying is the Concorde.


The only DC-10 I can think of still in passenger service is in Bangladesh, and that's due for retirement pretty soon.


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## the_traveler (Feb 9, 2014)

I thought that DC-10 route had already been cancelled?


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## jis (Feb 10, 2014)

Bangladesh Biman still flies a DC 10 until at least summer 2014

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 10, 2014)

On second thought...












*Link...*


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 10, 2014)

railiner said:


> As for how long these will remain in passenger service.....who knows? While the 747-8 'should' be around for another 20 years or so....who knows whether they will be carrying passenger's or pallet's......look at what happened to the MD-11.....


KLM seems to be rocking the MD-11 in passenger service. Not sure if it is still on, but I captured this pic at SFO late last year-


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 10, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> On second thought...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's from the 70s!  Quick, send this Horror to the Boneyard in Arizona! before it Multiplies!(Those Colors are Worse than some of the Old Amtrak Interiors from the 70s during the Rainbow Train Days and the Unbelievable 80s!! :help: )


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## Texan Eagle (Feb 10, 2014)

On the topic of 747, this is one of my personal favorite pics- look at all those tiny peasants following the Queen


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## Nathanael (Feb 10, 2014)

737 was my favorite airplane. A workhorse which could handle almost everything -- and still being bought. Best selling commercial airplane ever, apparently.

I've ridden in a 737 in China using the "short takeoff and landing" capability.

I've ridden in a 737 on a rather scary tour of Angel Falls, where the pilot dipped the wings sideways to fly into the canyon and give us a good view of the Falls. (The canyon isn't actually large enough to comfortably fly without tilting the plane on its side.) Scared the hell of me.

But boy, those things are versatile. After seeing them pulling these stunts, I realized that in US usage the 737 doesn't come close to showing its capabilities.


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## saxman (Feb 10, 2014)

Just rode the upper deck of the 747 last week JFK-NRT. I like the UD because of the business jet like atmosphere. But I also really like the very forward portion of the nose section as well. You can almost see forward through those windows.


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## railiner (Feb 10, 2014)

saxman said:


> Just rode the upper deck of the 747 last week JFK-NRT. I like the UD because of the business jet like atmosphere. But I also really like the very forward portion of the nose section as well. You can almost see forward through those windows.


'Close, but no cigar'.....that was what I had hoped for when I booked that seat (1A?), on that Air Canada flight. I practically squashed my face against the first window, but could not quite see forward. On an ANA flight from Tokyo to Hong Kong, they showed a cockpit cam view of the takeoff on the video screens....wish more airlines would do that.....


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## railiner (Feb 10, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > On second thought...
> ...


I agree with you on those colors.....but I like the substantial look of those coach seats compared with the thin shells of today's seats. And I also like the flat Douglas ceiling....reminds me of Amfleet  ...much better than the 'scalloped' look of the newer 737's, which look claustrophobic to my eye.....


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 10, 2014)

For the benefit of those who may not be clear on the subject, you cannot see forward from any row of the lower deck of a 747. Not even a little. I'm not sure why this myth persists but in my view it should be put to rest.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 11, 2014)

jis said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > If you're flying international, make sure you take off in the morning from your departure city so that you don't have to sleep on the plane. You have to deal with jet lag anyway but I'd rather deal with it on the ground then on the plane. Don't expect to sleep.
> ...


I can understand, you're mostly a business traveller, and I'm mostly a leisure traveller. If you really want to fly a 747 just to fly on a Jumbo with a hump and quads, then you would want to take off as early in the day as possible just so you won't fall asleep on the plane. And the window seat is for looking outside, I'm sure you fly so much you don't even care to look outside anymore because after a while it gets boring.

Those front cameras are quite common on modern aircraft, I hear Turkish Airlines has them too. Not sure if Lufthansa's 748 has them,


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## jis (Feb 11, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I can understand, you're mostly a business traveller, and I'm mostly a leisure traveller. If you really want to fly a 747 just to fly on a Jumbo with a hump and quads, then you would want to take off as early in the day as possible just so you won't fall asleep on the plane. And the window seat is for looking outside, I'm sure you fly so much you don't even care to look outside anymore because after a while it gets boring.


Actually I travel about half my miles on leisure and the other half on business. And I do like window seats, but just no in the middle of steerage. I can usually snag them in exit rows and bulkhead. I am the one that posts all those pictures of exotic places taken from the window seat at 39,000' on Facebook all the time.  So never assume.  
On ultra long intercontinental flight, it is hard for it to get boring, since they seem to fly a different route each time even between two same points.


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## jis (Feb 11, 2014)

Just learned that the Bangladesh Biman farewell to DC-10 flight out of BHX is on the 20th February. So if you want to be on it you better get cracking!


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## leemell (Feb 11, 2014)

Nathanael said:


> 737 was my favorite airplane. A workhorse which could handle almost everything -- and still being bought. Best selling commercial airplane ever, apparently.
> 
> I've ridden in a 737 in China using the "short takeoff and landing" capability.
> 
> ...


Boeing has built over 7500 737s and the production rate continues to climb. By next year that plan to be building 42 a month, a rate more Boeing has done for any commercial aircraft.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 12, 2014)

jis said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > I can understand, you're mostly a business traveller, and I'm mostly a leisure traveller. If you really want to fly a 747 just to fly on a Jumbo with a hump and quads, then you would want to take off as early in the day as possible just so you won't fall asleep on the plane. And the window seat is for looking outside, I'm sure you fly so much you don't even care to look outside anymore because after a while it gets boring.
> ...


Aha, you are the guy with permanent Gold and running Platinum! I now understnad what you're talking about.

But yeah, for us poor folk in Economy with poor mileage status that still want a view, gonna have to go for those window seats.


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## chakk (Feb 12, 2014)

No one has mentioned the various Folker turboprops and regional jets, nor the Japanese Namco YS-11, nor the American turboprop 580, nor the Boeing 320 jet (very similar to the 707) or the stretch DC-8 (which I think was even longer than the 747). Been on them all. Still kicking myself for passing up an opportunity to ride the Concorde (at regular air coach fares) from Heathrow to Glasgow in 1983 with my two (then young) sons. British Airways flew three Concordes on their hourly commuter route one morning from London to Glasgow (about an hour trip). The first sold out, the second was 2/3 full. The last was 1/3 full.

Now THAT would have been quite the check-off on the Bucket List.


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