# "Extreme Trains" Empire Builder



## rtabern (Dec 15, 2008)

Just wanted to remind everyone to watch Tuesday night's "Extreme Trains" on the History Channel... it's going to be all about the Empire Builder. I actually saw their film crew interviewing people earlier this year while the train (#7) was stopped for the smoke break in Milwaukee. They had quite an amazing set-up... boom mic and everything. I got an e-mail from the producer I met and he said it's airing 12/16. I have a feeling it's going to focus more on the route through the Rockies than the Chicago to Winona, MN section that I work on a T&R guide, but it should still be fun.


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## Rail Freak (Dec 15, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Just wanted to remind everyone to watch Tuesday night's "Extreme Trains" on the History Channel... it's going to be all about the Empire Builder. I actually saw their film crew interviewing people earlier this year while the train (#7) was stopped for the smoke break in Milwaukee. They had quite an amazing set-up... boom mic and everything. I got an e-mail from the producer I met and he said it's airing 12/16. I have a feeling it's going to focus more on the route through the Rockies than the Chicago to Winona, MN section that I work on a T&R guide, but it should still be fun.



Do you work with Andrea? On my trip in Sept I had dinner with her.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railfreak/285...57607285888520/


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## Hanno (Dec 15, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Just wanted to remind everyone to watch Tuesday night's "Extreme Trains" on the History Channel... it's going to be all about the Empire Builder. I actually saw their film crew interviewing people earlier this year while the train (#7) was stopped for the smoke break in Milwaukee. They had quite an amazing set-up... boom mic and everything. I got an e-mail from the producer I met and he said it's airing 12/16. I have a feeling it's going to focus more on the route through the Rockies than the Chicago to Winona, MN section that I work on a T&R guide, but it should still be fun.


Thanks for the "heads up"!


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## battalion51 (Dec 15, 2008)

"These are the GE P-42DC's. These things are awesome. They've got a combined 12,750 horsepower to get this train from Chicago to Seattle in just two days. I don't know how we're going to do this, but it's going to be extreme. But first, we need to do some


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 15, 2008)

Hopefully they'll give some history on the line and talk about the Cascade Tunnel and how parts of the line were at one time electrified. It would also be nice if they cover the fierce competition that once existed on the Chicago-MSP runs. But I'm sure we'll be headed to Steamtown instead


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 15, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Hopefully they'll give some history on the line and talk about the Cascade Tunnel and how parts of the line were at one time electrified. It would also be nice if they cover the fierce competition that once existed on the Chicago-MSP runs. But I'm sure we'll be headed to Steamtown instead


I'd like to see something about the SEA/PDX split at Spokane.

I can see it now: "If these railmen don't get it right this train will be delayed and we'll have a lot of unhappy passengers, and that won't be a good thing so they better get it right!"


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## Rafi (Dec 15, 2008)

Or...

"We're about to split this baby in two! The front half is gonna go that way, and the back half is gonna go that way. This is gonna be AWESOME." As he punches the camera with his index finger.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 15, 2008)

Or...

""This train is so extreme, its actually two trains in one! We're gonna split this baby up and see how railroads really do it." Two hours pass, he is up in the PDX coach with the sleeping pax "See, wasn't that delay EXTREMMEE?!!"


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## the_traveler (Dec 15, 2008)

"Look, it's actually *THREE* trains in one (between CHI and MSP - #7, #27 and #807) and it looks just like 1 train! Now *THAT'S* really *EXTREME*!"


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## had8ley (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up Robert. I'm presently removing the speakers from our flat screen


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## AlanB (Dec 15, 2008)

had8ley said:


> Thanks for the heads up Robert. I'm presently removing the speakers from our flat screen


Just hit the mute button. It's easier and cheaper. :lol:


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## had8ley (Dec 15, 2008)

AlanB said:


> had8ley said:
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> 
> > Thanks for the heads up Robert. I'm presently removing the speakers from our flat screen
> ...


Yeah, but what do I do next week ???


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## the_traveler (Dec 15, 2008)

had8ley said:


> AlanB said:
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> > had8ley said:
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Hit it again - *EXTREMELY*! :lol:


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## rtabern (Dec 16, 2008)

Rail Freak said:


> rtabern said:
> 
> 
> > Just wanted to remind everyone to watch Tuesday night's "Extreme Trains" on the History Channel... it's going to be all about the Empire Builder. I actually saw their film crew interviewing people earlier this year while the train (#7) was stopped for the smoke break in Milwaukee. They had quite an amazing set-up... boom mic and everything. I got an e-mail from the producer I met and he said it's airing 12/16. I have a feeling it's going to focus more on the route through the Rockies than the Chicago to Winona, MN section that I work on a T&R guide, but it should still be fun.
> ...


Yep, Andrea Zoelle... I filled in for her a few times. We have 49 people in our group currently. The next time you ride drop me a PM and if I'm off work those 2 days I can ride and be your guide.


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## VentureForth (Dec 16, 2008)

WOW. Can you believe this train? It winds from Chicago to Seattle AND Portland! It averages an EXTREMEly slow 50 MPH! What's Extremely COOL is that Portland is actually 50 miles further, but it makes the trip in 10 fewer minutes! WOW.

Get this - this Extreme Train utilizes COOKS in the kitchen! They offer FOOD cooked ON BOARD the train! It's amazing!

I miss Steve Erwin. :mellow:

Crikey.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 16, 2008)

You guys are cold. LOL


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## the_traveler (Dec 16, 2008)

Steve4031 said:


> You guys are cold. LOL


Not really, but the EB travels through *EXTREMELY* cold areas! :lol: (Especially this week!  )


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 16, 2008)

Something tells me on tonight's episode we will not hear what Bustitution is all about :lol:


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## wayman (Dec 16, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Or...
> ""This train is so extreme, its actually two trains in one! We're gonna split this baby up and see how railroads really do it." Two hours pass, he is up in the PDX coach with the sleeping pax "See, wasn't that delay EXTREMMEE?!!"


... when it's 1 AM in Spokane and the PDX pax are EXTREMELY ASLEEP and EXTREMELY ANNOYED at being awakened :blink: 

I don't have a TV and so haven't even seen this show, but it's fun to play along. Possibly more fun than watching the show, or is it actually good publicity for Amtrak even though it's very annoyingly done?


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## AAARGH! (Dec 16, 2008)

Wow. 20 posts so far (including mine) before the show even airs. Can't wait for the after-show discussion.

I guess this is an *extreme* thread.

I shouldn't be surprised. The thread about the Acela episode had 86 replies and 2,400 views.


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## Rail Freak (Dec 16, 2008)

rtabern said:


> Rail Freak said:
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You got it!

Thanx


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## Guest_Jesda_* (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm watching this now. I don't mind the host's enthusiasm. The train hobby is hard to convey with excitement to the rest of the public.


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## VentureForth (Dec 16, 2008)

So much missed opportunity in this episode. They brought up the fresh cooked foodd, lots of talk about the big tunnel and its history, and another segway about the steamer.

What was disappointing was that they kept showing the guy sticking his head out the window. What a misconception for future railriders! "But that guy on TV did it!" Also, he jumped past the yellow step. Another bad habit trying to look cool.

They didn't talk about the 27/807 split, or even the fact that the train went to Portland.

At least the show was followed by prostitutes in the Wild West....


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 16, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> At least the show was followed by prostitutes in the Wild West....


And don't forget in another hour we get Modern Marvels-The History of Cold Cuts


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 16, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> So much missed opportunity in this episode. They brought up the fresh cooked foodd, lots of talk about the big tunnel and its history, and another segway about the steamer.
> What was disappointing was that they kept showing the guy sticking his head out the window. What a misconception for future railriders! "But that guy on TV did it!" Also, he jumped past the yellow step. Another bad habit trying to look cool.
> 
> They didn't talk about the 27/807 split, or even the fact that the train went to Portland.
> ...


Agreed, they didn't mention the PDX split at all!!


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## gswager (Dec 16, 2008)

That's too bad that Rtabern didn't showed up in Empire Builder, narrating the Hill's Empire.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 16, 2008)

And they spent 10 minutes about snow plowing...


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 16, 2008)

I noticed when it left CUS it was hauling the Milwaukee Road Super Dome.


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## gswager (Dec 16, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And they spent 10 minutes about snow plowing...


That would be a real EXTREME- snow plowing!


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## had8ley (Dec 16, 2008)

After hours of prep work removing the speakers from our TV so that we could just watch "Extreme Idiot" I fell asleep before the show. Oh well, at least I'll be ready for next week.


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## MattW (Dec 17, 2008)

It wasn't too bad, but some of the crap they did in the snow was just too much! WHO CARES? Just say, "back then manual labor, now, snow plows" and move on. I really missed detailing some of the inspection and maintenance stuff they do in Chicago before departing, instead they rambled on about brake shoes and fingers getting squished. BTW-are those disks on the Superliner axles actually brakes? I thought I read they were heat sinks. Yea, definately missed the Spokane split-up, as a non-EB traveler, it would have been neat to see how they did it.

Steamtown was great place to visit, but a bore to segue into shows about modern-day trains especially when the only way they are related is they both use Dihydrogen Monoxide in some completely random form or fashion.


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## Trainut (Dec 17, 2008)

I just finished watching Matt Brown swinging his arms and pointing his fingers every time he talks (which is non stop}. Doesn't this man ever get tired of talking and saying the same words?

Half way through the show I had to mute it, as it was very annoying.

To me he spoils the whole show.

To bad they didn't show some of the Milwakee station, and the split at Spokane, instead of the steam stuff.


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## JAChooChoo (Dec 17, 2008)

*Host:** Trains have been carrying passengers across the country for over 200 years.*

* *

*Hmmm, in 1808?*

* *

*But, at least, he did cover safety issues.*


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## the_traveler (Dec 17, 2008)

Even the map of the EB only showed CHI and SEA as end points!

*Host*: "... (the EB) is timed to get to Glacier ... in daylight ..." :huh:

When I took the EB in October westbound, we got to Glacier in late afternoon - after dark! :blink:


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 17, 2008)

JAChooChoo said:


> Hmmm, in 1808?But, at least, he did cover safety issues.[/b]


Wikipedia puts the first passenger Steam trains at 1804.

But thats in the UK. Similar service in the USA did not appear for another decade. I suspect that the producer was using Wikifacts instead of real ones, to cut corners.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 17, 2008)

The best part was that he actually did some work.

Did anybody see the SA in the diner roll his eyes when Brown did that stupid "Its hard work, but we can't let the pax know that"

And I got to see Rolo! He was the coach SA they did a spot with, he is one of my favorite SA's I've ever seen.

But WTH is with Steamtown? Seriously, the segue didn't even make sense this time. They might as well have segued into planes because they use water too!


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## rtabern (Dec 17, 2008)

Overall, I thought it was a good special... not great, but pretty good. I wish the Sightseer Lounges still had VCRs connected because it would be fun to show to passengers during our Trails & Rails presentations.

I usually ride the Empire Builder around 20 times a year though Wisconsin... and since I'm such a frequent rider and narrator... I did notice some of the incorrect things in the show.

(It's sorta being nit-picky... but was fun to see what incorrect things I could find)

First off, when the host gets off in Columbus, WI the first shot they show isn't Columbus... it looks like 1 shot of the La Crosse station... then cuts to shots of the Columbus depot.

Second, he says "we're 100 miles out Chicago, it's mid-afternoon, and the passengers are hungry for lunch"... (as he walks through the diner). 100 miles out of Chicago on #7/27 it's usually around 4:15PM and you should be near Duplainville, WI (west of Milwaukee). They are usually not serving any meals until you're 150+ miles out of Chicago, and it would be dinner.

Third, they made it seem like you go from Chicago to the Rocky Mountains in the same day. Right out of Chicago or Columbus the host goes... "We have to make it to the Rockies before dark". He means before dark on DAY 2 of the trip... but sure made it seem like you go from Chicago to the Rockies in the same day.

I was a little disapointed they didn't show how the Empire Builder ran along the Mississippi River for 150 miles... and how scenic that way... then again, this was shot in late April or early May (I was in the MKE depot when the film crew was there) and it probably would have been too dark to shoot that.

And, the Super Dome was on #7 that day... good observation! What happened was the Milwaukee Road 261 train set (based at MSP) was brought down to Chicago the day before for the filming of the new Johnny Depp movie "Public Enemies". (will be released Summer 2009)... The movie folks didn't want to use the Super Dome in the film... but they wanted to use the engine and the rest of the train set... so they were sending the Super Dome back to MSP on the #7 that the film crew was on.

I was a little disapointed they didn't even mention anything about the Sightseer Lounge Car! They showed a diagram of the diner, sleeping car, coaches, etc... but no shout out for my favroite car?? 

The host also made it seem like it was really hard to make the bed in the Superliner sleeper... Is it? I always make it up myself.

And, when interviewing the sleeping car lady (Doris) she says she stays up all night until each passenger calls her to make up their bed... sometimes staying up unti 3AM? Uhhh... I take 3-4 long distance trips a year and have NEVER seen the sleeping car attendant staying upto 3AM just waiting on people to press the call button to make up their beds. Usually the attendant goes to bed around 11PM... and anyone getting on in the middle of the night is let on my the conductor. If there is a big stop in the middle of the night, like Salt Lake City, and a lot of passengers are getting on, sometimes the attendant will be up, but he/she is NOT sitting awake to 3AM waiting for you to press the call button.

Plus, they made a mention that the sleeper fare out to Seattle back in the early days of the Empire Builder would be the equivilent of $900 now. Uhhh... yeahh... a lot of the time a bedroom costs more than $900 on the Empire Builder today... sometimes even more.

I'm just hoping they will do a series called "NOT SO EXTREME TRAINS"... and show how crappy the Horizon cars are on the Hiawathas... hahaha.


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## VentureForth (Dec 17, 2008)

Oh, but the way Amtrak has a *special* way of handling all those bags at Chicago Union Station - THAT'S extreme! A conveyor belt and a bunch of carts tugged by a tractor.

Maybe the airlines will learn something from all this...

The diagrams of the cars were actually pretty cool. I wish they would put that flash up on Amtrak.com or on one of our sister forum sites!

There was also PV on the train coming out of CUS, but it wasn't clear that it was actually on the EB.

Another random thought about CUS was with regards to how important communication is with the dispatcher. Cut to the Tower (Nothing like Acela's dispatch war room), then cut back to the tunnel where that ever-so-important call to dispatch is made by pressing a button. How many kids are going to go push that button now?

Corny - "Do I have to have the hat on to shout 'All Aboard!'?"


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## AAARGH! (Dec 17, 2008)

All-in all, reasonable coverage.

The Steamtown excursion was absolutley pointless and aggravating, *AGAIN*.

Matt was not _too_ annoying. The only stupidity that made me roll my eyes was when he was pouring wine (or champaigne) and said, something like 'We're pouring wine on a train. Wow". Doesn't take much to impress him, does it.

Having just been on the EB in October, it was nice to see the sights again. I agree that they missed showing the beauty of the 150 miles of the Mississippi and IMO, the best part, the run along the Pueget (sp?) Sound.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 17, 2008)

I was hoping to get a good view of the Superliner Sleepers, but instead we got the "Shaky cam with the odd angles". Granted, not really any room for a camera man, but that was a bit disappointing.

Otherwise, pretty interesting. Makes me want to take a trip.


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## dan72 (Dec 17, 2008)

I, too was hoping for more on the Mississippi valley as well. Also he made it sound like it made one stop to service the train (water, etc) when I think it makes several (St. Paul being one of them).

And yeah, the Steamtown thing is getting REALLY annoying. It's interesting stuff, just stop plopping it as a random segment.

I wonder how many people are going to be opening up the window? He could have at least said 'don't try this yourself'

Dan


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## the_traveler (Dec 17, 2008)

How did he put it? "... wind in your face ..." as he stuck his head out? :huh:

I also wonder how many are going to try that? And how many will "accidentally" open the whole door - and not just the window? :huh:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 17, 2008)

"Wedgies that just won't go away"

Another moment I had wished that would go away.

"Going through the train wash..."

God help me.

And I can't help it, but the SEA-PDX split IS what makes it the most extreme. Not even a passing "this is two trains in one."

I hope they filmed that scene at Spokane, if they didn't, it was a travesty. if they did and decided shoveling snow was more interesting it was a crime.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 17, 2008)

"You don't wanna be throwing it around too much" *regarding luggage*

I'm sorry, I have seen them throw bags around. I never pack anything fragile.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 17, 2008)

At least he didn't show viewers how the Emergency Cord works


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## VentureForth (Dec 17, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> And I can't help it, but the SEA-PDX split IS what makes it the most extreme. Not even a passing "this is two trains in one."


The station attendant DID call out "Train 7/27/807 now boarding..." but no one elaborated.

Dude never did make it all the way down to the roadbed digging in the snow. You'd think that in 10 minutes, he'd get through. Of course, he's probably around 7 feet tall - when his head was well above the surrounding snow, "I've dug down about 6 feet now"...

The camera under the plexiglas was interesting. About as interesting as watching the water flow after the tunnel pipe was repaired.

Oh - and no talk about how extreme it is to take a shower at 79 MPH. But we did get to see the different ways that the engineer could press the deadman's switch...


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## MattW (Dec 17, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> But we did get to see the different ways that the engineer could press the deadman's switch...


LOL, I caught onto that too, I thought the engineer was doing that repeatedly as a sort of "if I jump around like a trained monkey for a bit, will you please get that damn camera out of my face!?"


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## VentureForth (Dec 17, 2008)

MattW said:


> VentureForth said:
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> > But we did get to see the different ways that the engineer could press the deadman's switch...
> ...


I can press it with one finger, smash it with my palm, or poke it repeatedly.....


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 17, 2008)

I wonder when the engineer demonstrated the Overspeed Limiter if that had to be cleared in advance so indeed he did not have to do any explaining after the fact. Do the P42s carry a data recorder?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 17, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> MattW said:
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I don't think it is the camera, I think its the host. its more of:

"If I pander to you will you get this idiot out of my cab?!"


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## VentureForth (Dec 18, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I wonder when the engineer demonstrated the Overspeed Limiter if that had to be cleared in advance so indeed he did not have to do any explaining after the fact. Do the P42s carry a data recorder?


Well, he never hit 83, so they didn't actually set into Emergency. However, I've heard that even hitting 1 MPH over the limit will get you a talking to...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 18, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder when the engineer demonstrated the Overspeed Limiter if that had to be cleared in advance so indeed he did not have to do any explaining after the fact. Do the P42s carry a data recorder?
> ...


From the looks of it, he was in the middle of North Dakota, not much traffic there. I'm sure it would have been a simple matter for Amtrak to get clearance from BNSF to punch it to 81-82 and then go back down for a few seconds.


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## VT Hokie (Dec 18, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> Well, he never hit 83, so they didn't actually set into Emergency. However, I've heard that even hitting 1 MPH over the limit will get you a talking to...


I doubt it. On the Acela episode, the speedometer was toggling between 150 and 151.


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## AlanB (Dec 18, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> VentureForth said:
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One can't ask the host RR for permission to do something that the FRA has declared illegal. If the dispatcher said yes, he'd be just as guilty. Not to mention that one might just get overheard asking for permission.

That said, running a train isn't an exact sience any more than running your car is either. That's why they allow a little leeway in things as long as you're not consistantly over the speed limit. So I'm sure that from time to time many an engineer has had his/her train up to 81 or 82 for a few seconds while waiting for the brakes to set up.


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## MattW (Dec 18, 2008)

Perhaps they got clearance from the FRA to go 3 MPH over the speed limit on straight track, excellent visibility, no other traffic etc. Think about it, what better way than to show a safety system works than by testing it on a national television show. The layperson might see that and think "hmm, if the engineer screws up and we start speeding, computer will start complaining, Amtrak and railroads are a safe way to travel."


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## dan72 (Dec 18, 2008)

So, I have kind of a stupid question to follow-up to this. h34r: How does it work for trains such as the Southwest Chief where they can in areas run at 90. Are those locomotives programmed differently somehow to the alarms are not going off at 83 mph?

Dan


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## AlanB (Dec 18, 2008)

dan72 said:


> So, I have kind of a stupid question to follow-up to this. h34r: How does it work for trains such as the Southwest Chief where they can in areas run at 90. Are those locomotives programmed differently somehow to the alarms are not going off at 83 mph?
> Dan


Precisely Dan. Amtrak even has some loco's programmed to run even higher, like those that run in Michigan on the higher speed tracks there, Empire Service, and of course on the NEC.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 18, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Precisely Dan. Amtrak even has some loco's programmed to run even higher, like those that run in Michigan on the higher speed tracks there, Empire Service, and of course on the NEC.


I know this is off topic, but which Michigan trains run faster, and how much faster?


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## heavesrock (Dec 18, 2008)

> I know this is off topic, but which Michigan trains run faster, and how much faster?


The Wolverine goes 95 for a while I believe.


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## the_traveler (Dec 18, 2008)

AlanB said:


> That said, running a train isn't an exact sience any more than running your car is either. That's why they allow a little leeway in things as long as you're not consistantly over the speed limit. So I'm sure that from time to time many an engineer has had his/her train up to 81 or 82 for a few seconds while waiting for the brakes to set up.


A few times when I took the EB this year, my GPS was reading up to 82 MPH somewhere between MSP and CHI (I forget where).


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 18, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > That said, running a train isn't an exact sience any more than running your car is either. That's why they allow a little leeway in things as long as you're not consistantly over the speed limit. So I'm sure that from time to time many an engineer has had his/her train up to 81 or 82 for a few seconds while waiting for the brakes to set up.
> ...


Was it sustained? Or was it just a little blip?


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## AlanB (Dec 18, 2008)

heavesrock said:


> > I know this is off topic, but which Michigan trains run faster, and how much faster?
> 
> 
> The Wolverine goes 95 for a while I believe.


Actually I think that they have gotten up to 105 now, but I'm not positive.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Dec 18, 2008)

I tuned in a little late so I missed the first.I noticed they showed a roomette,but did they show a bedroom?

Like so many others I wish they had explained about the Portland section. Let people get some current nitty gritty info about today's trains.

They could have done without that steam presentation. More step by step of the EB's own history would have been nice, though maybe I missed some at the first.

I am surprised nobody has compared our host with the late great Steve Irvin, the crock man of wild animal films.

Many of us tolerated his exteme hyperness, simce, after all, he knew what he was talking about. For me, I was facsinated by Steve Irvin for awhile. Then, I decided he was driving me crazy. Then, well before his untimely death by a sting ray, I decided again that I liked him and was amused by him.

Bet we would have liked this guy's wired-upness better if the presention had had more substance.

Oh and I think the sleeping car attendant was kind of backed into a corner about bed times at 3 a.m, etc. I think she was caught off guard and did not want to sound like some kind of diva who ordered everybody to bed at 7 or else!


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## the Other Mike (Dec 18, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> I am surprised nobody has compared our host with the late great Steve Irvin, the crock man of wild animal films.


Just goes to show no one read my post several weeks ago...........


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## the_traveler (Dec 18, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> the_traveler said:
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I really don't know. Many times, I could not get a signal, and just did random readings.

Maybe Matt was in the cab! :lol: :lol:


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## Bill Haithcoat (Dec 18, 2008)

the Other Mike said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
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> ...



My apologies.


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## sky12065 (Dec 18, 2008)

the Other Mike said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
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> > I am surprised nobody has compared our host with the late great Steve Irvin, the crock man of wild animal films.
> ...


TOM, IIRC you're a writer or columnist or something like that, and as such you should be used to that kind of thing! <_< Just kidd'n of course! :lol:


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## the Other Mike (Dec 18, 2008)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> the Other Mike said:
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thanks, but shucks, I get over it at some point..................... :unsure:


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## AAARGH! (Dec 19, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> the_traveler said:
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> > AlanB said:
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When on the EB in October, I also notices 80 - 81 MPH a few times on my GPS. But it was only for 1 -2 minutes, never sustained. Mostly in North Dakota / Minnesota. Also saw 81 once on the CZ. Again, not sustained.

OH, BTW... The crock guy is Steve Irwin, not Steve Irvan. Just being picky. :blink: :unsure:


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## track-toy (Jan 2, 2009)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> I was hoping to get a good view of the Superliner Sleepers, but instead we got the "Shaky cam with the odd angles". Granted, not really any room for a camera man, but that was a bit disappointing.
> Otherwise, pretty interesting. Makes me want to take a trip.


Actually, my wife and I booked this trip both ways (Chicago Seattle Chicago) also using the Capitol Limited from Pittsburgh as a result of this show. I've never been on a US train before, only European ones.


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## AlanB (Jan 2, 2009)

track-toy said:


> HP_Lovecraft said:
> 
> 
> > I was hoping to get a good view of the Superliner Sleepers, but instead we got the "Shaky cam with the odd angles". Granted, not really any room for a camera man, but that was a bit disappointing.
> ...


Be sure to wander around out site checking out some of the topics so that you'll have a good idea of what to expect. 

And don't hesitate to ask questions.


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## track-toy (Jan 2, 2009)

AlanB said:


> track-toy said:
> 
> 
> > HP_Lovecraft said:
> ...


Thanks! We go in early April and we can't wait! It's not about getting there, it's about the trip!


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## AlanB (Jan 2, 2009)

track-toy said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > track-toy said:
> ...


Exactly!


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## sky12065 (Jan 2, 2009)

AlanB said:


> track-toy said:
> 
> 
> > AlanB said:
> ...


I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that it's not about getting there! It's about both! If it wasn't about getting to where we are going, many of us would not be able to afford to allocate our limited dollars to train travel and would loose out on enjoying the trips! At least this is the case for my wife and myself!


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## the_traveler (Jan 2, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that it's not about getting there! It's about both! If it wasn't about getting to where we are going, many of us would not be able to afford to allocate our limited dollars to train travel and would loose out on enjoying the trips! At least this is the case for my wife and myself!


I respectfully disagree with your disagreement!  Although it is both, the journey is as or more important. That's why you chose to go from CHI to LAX via either ABQ or SAS! And why you chose to go from SDL to LAX via PDX!


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## sky12065 (Jan 3, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> sky12065 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that it's not about getting there! It's about both! If it wasn't about getting to where we are going, many of us would not be able to afford to allocate our limited dollars to train travel and would loose out on enjoying the trips! At least this is the case for my wife and myself!
> ...


I'm sure that you'll agree that we can agree to respectfully disagree! If we all agreed on everything, it would sure make for a whole lot of boring discussions. Wouldn't you agree? 

As I think of it there are more than just two "it's abouts." Besides the journy and the destination there is also the discussion, but I'd be the first to say that the discussion comes in third in the order of importance. Bottom line though is that what's more important does not have a "one size fits all" answer and is directly related to the individual that is making that determination.

The journey may be more important to you and the destination may be more important to me. But to another what's important just may be that I simply end my goofy reply now!!! :wacko: :lol:


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## track-toy (Jan 3, 2009)

sky12065 said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > sky12065 said:
> ...


I'm really new around here and I'm just curious why the trains don't go any faster. I know that track technology is part of it. I also know that the US has adopted the european welded track principles. To me it's all about those magic 4' 8.5". The same gauge as the euro trains. I'd like to see tracks gradually upgraded with concrete ties so that the integrity of the track is easier to maintain to a higher standard. Then we could get some trainsets from Europe that can do 200mph or maybe GE and others would be inclined to develop high speed trains.

I know that maybe the intrigue in this country is for traditional-type train rides rather than super high speed so I hope I'm not talking out of turn.


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## WICT106 (Jan 3, 2009)

track-toy said:


> I'm really new around here and I'm just curious why the trains don't go any faster. I know that track technology is part of it. I also know that the US has adopted the european welded track principles. To me it's all about those magic 4' 8.5". The same gauge as the euro trains. I'd like to see tracks gradually upgraded with concrete ties so that the integrity of the track is easier to maintain to a higher standard. Then we could get some trainsets from Europe that can do 200mph or maybe GE and others would be inclined to develop high speed trains.
> I know that maybe the intrigue in this country is for traditional-type train rides rather than super high speed so I hope I'm not talking out of turn.


there really is no simple answer to your question. The track standards and signal system standards, within the US are different than Europe. To go in excess of 80 mph in the US one must have one of the following installed: Automatic Train Control System, or Automatic Train Stop, or Cab Signals. When that regulation was first promulgated in the late 1940s, many RRs looked at the cost, looked at the fact that they were already losing passenger traffic to the taxpayer funded highways, and that they were not going to get any financial assistance from government sources in funding the maintenance for such systems, and took the solution of simply reducing their speed limits. That way, the RRs did not have to pay for the additional signal systems (that many of them felt were of limited return, anyway).

One more recent reason is that, in addition to the signal systems standards grandfathered up to the present day via Title 49, Code Of Federal Regulations, subpart 236, complete

For the specific regulation about signaling systems, the one that was grandfathered in between 1947 and 1952: 49 CFR 236.0 sub-subpart (4) (d) . 

Hope these should begin to answer some of your questions.

I don't think you're talking out of turn at all. I welcome the addition of a new voice to our forums, and look forward to a another person adding their perspective to more high speed trains and a improvement of train travel. Be advised that it can have its share of challenges, and the debate here can be as vigorous as anywhere else. Fortunatly the moderators here are quick to avoid letting the debate devolve into the vitriol that other sites suffer from.


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## track-toy (Jan 3, 2009)

WICT106 said:


> track-toy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm really new around here and I'm just curious why the trains don't go any faster. I know that track technology is part of it. I also know that the US has adopted the european welded track principles. To me it's all about those magic 4' 8.5". The same gauge as the euro trains. I'd like to see tracks gradually upgraded with concrete ties so that the integrity of the track is easier to maintain to a higher standard. Then we could get some trainsets from Europe that can do 200mph or maybe GE and others would be inclined to develop high speed trains.
> ...


Thank you. I think I understand the signaling differences that preclude high-speed rail in the US. I did notice that the eastern corridor is more advanced though, allowing 100mph. In looking at the rail standards, I couldn't find anything specific to alignment. In order to eliminate side-to-side occilations of the cars on straight stretches, there is a need to enforce relative rail height standards. The two rails must be within a maximum # of a few thousandths of an inch in height difference (whatever is decided, but the closer to dead level the better.

All the standards say that I could find is "Roadway elements, except track circuits, including those for test purposes, shall be gaged monthly for height and alinement, and shall be tested at least every 6 months." When I have looked at videos of US trains, especially those youtube videos at extreme trackside, the ties allow for vertical movement of the track which seems inadequate to me like the spikes are loose. High speed rail track doesn't use high-maintenance spikes.

Then there is the subject of curves. There may be but I couldn't find any, a set of standards for banking the rails for curves.

One thing that the europeans don't have is single track for vast distances with only some dual track near the cities. In Europe most track is dual. This had to be upgraded for high speed by increasing the spacing between trains traveling in opposite directions. Also the cost per mile to increase rail standards in this country would be less than in Europe.

Anyway, one of the key euro train routes (London, UK - Paris, France - 211 miles) is accomplished today by 186mph trains in 2hrs 15mins with some speed restricted track (only 100mph through the 31-mile tunnel). This is way faster than the airlines can do accounting for security and boarding delays. Think about it. How many boarding doors do trains have vs a single airplane boarding door! Trains don't have to taxi either. Also, airline flight is not true city to city, you've got to get to the airport first.

I'm sure all this has been debated before, but I'm new here. What I have seen on other train forums, especially the reviews, is people complaining that they should have taken the plane. Let's make train travel faster!


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## Tony (Jan 3, 2009)

I just got to watch for the first time (for me), an "encore presentation" of this episode.

Do passengers riding the EB really have an opportunity to explore the original/old/abandoned tunnel like they show (at a smoking stop perhaps)?

Does the EPA really allow steam engines to still dump their waste coal ash on the ground like that?


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## Superliner (Jan 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, this show is too "hyped" or "extreme" for me (for ratings I am sure) ... the first episode I watched was about the Acela (and the last). Perhaps I am just being "extreme" about my opinion, but I prefer the laid back approach and the not so excited or extreme (yeah I know) "oh my... yada yada" crap that TV chooses today. Just my 2 cents.


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