# Consolidating fare tickets to a multi-agency card.



## BCL (Dec 12, 2014)

I've got a lot of BART tickets that I get on Capitol Corridor at a 20% discount ($8 for a $10 value) but then I run into the issue of small amounts left and having to spend full price, or having to go to specific places (open only on weekdays during the middle of the day) to consolidate tickets. It's gotten to the point where I try to plan out how to use a $10 ticket to minimize having to spend cash or avoid leaving too much residual value on tickets. I don't know if this is something BART doesn't want to do or that Clipper doesn't think is feasible. I'm sure someone has brought up the possibility.

I understand that in DC one can use their ticket machines to add the value of a "paper" ticket to their SmarTrip card. I only wish we could do that here. Anyone have any experience with how well that works?


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## MattW (Dec 12, 2014)

Maybe not exactly the same, but it seems to work ok in Atlanta with our Breezecard. The Xpress buses charge between $3 and $5 dollars while MARTA fare is $2.50. I commuted in on Xpress, then transferred to MARTA for about a month. It's a free transfer between the systems so that helps too I suspect, but I had no problems with stored cash value for the Xpress buses and a 10-ride pass for MARTA on the same card. Since I load online and tap my wallet, I haven't actually seen my card in over a year, I assume it's still there because the faregates all open for me and the bus drivers don't say anything


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## BCL (Dec 15, 2014)

MattW said:


> Maybe not exactly the same, but it seems to work ok in Atlanta with our Breezecard. The Xpress buses charge between $3 and $5 dollars while MARTA fare is $2.50. I commuted in on Xpress, then transferred to MARTA for about a month. It's a free transfer between the systems so that helps too I suspect, but I had no problems with stored cash value for the Xpress buses and a 10-ride pass for MARTA on the same card. Since I load online and tap my wallet, I haven't actually seen my card in over a year, I assume it's still there because the faregates all open for me and the bus drivers don't say anything


That's not necessarily what I was thinking of. I was thinking of the way that some large retailers allow users to consolidate gift cards (even when purchased at a discount) to a single, registered card. The main issue with this system may be that the cards are technically still out there unless this is done at a retailer, but most people will destroy the old ones or at least mark them as canceled.

My idea would be that we take these "paper tickets" (really plastic these days) and have some function in the ticket machines that allows one to take the value and add it to a Clipper card. The machines are already equipped to add value to Clipper with cash or credit. What I was thinking of was a value in the card that was only for BART and where the value can be added through discount credit or through things like these discounted tickets.

For example, here's a photo someone took of two tickets with a residual value:







What I'd like to do is just have the machines accept the tickets and then have the option to add the value to a Clipper multi-agency proximity card. Once the Clipper card is placed on the reader, the ticket would then be taken, but it the transaction is cancelled then the ticket could be returned. It wouldn't be the full type of value that could be used on any agency, but one that is reserved for BART and where riding BART means preferentially taking value from this pool of funds.


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## NorthShore (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm not quite grasping why you have all of these individual cards, rather than just one Clipper, anyway.


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## BCL (Dec 18, 2014)

NorthShore said:


> I'm not quite grasping why you have all of these individual cards, rather than just one Clipper, anyway.


I ride Amtrak California's Capitol Corridor, where (at the cafe car) on every ride I can buy a discounted $10 fare value ticket for $8. I'm sort of playing the game of trying to use up as much of that value with minimal use of cash representing a 1:1 outlay. I'd rather just use them a few times (only a "paper ticket" value can be used to pay for parking outside of paying cash) and then consolidate the rest on Clipper.

Sort of think of how some people buy retail gift cards and consolidate their combined value to a registered card. The Clipper card is that registered card. If I lose it I can get the value back minus a service fee.

There's actually quite an issue with residual value BART tickets. The minimum fare on BART now is $1.85. A lot of people don't want to play around with getting change or adding to old tickets, and just get $2 tickets and toss them (I've seen them on the ground). My wife had a tendency to buy $20 tickets and then use them until there wasn't enough value to ride.

BART has means to consolidate small value tickets, but the hours/locations are inconvenient. Some nonprofits take these as donations, and BART will pay out cash to them.

http://www.bart.gov/tickets/sales/refunds


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## jis (Dec 18, 2014)

BART does not have AddFare machines to use up the residual value with just adequate topoff?


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## BCL (Dec 18, 2014)

jis said:


> BART does not have AddFare machines to use up the residual value with just adequate topoff?


Sure. However, that doesn't really help that much if you've got a bunch of tickets with 50 cents, 10 cents, 15 cents, etc - or even two $2.50 tickets when I want to go on a ride that's $4.15. It also means I have to shell out 1:1 cash for that added value compared to the 20% discount I get on Capitol Corridor buying $10 tickets.

Right now a round-trip from the station closest to home to the Coliseum station (to Amtrak OAC) with weekday parking I need $8.40. So if I use one of these $10 tickets there's a $1.60 value. I'd rather consolidate that value to Clipper than add money to the ticket. Right now there is BART only value on Clipper in the form of discount purchases ($48 value for $45).


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## NorthShore (Dec 18, 2014)

It seems this is the bet the transit agencies are placing (and winning at) by offering a seeming discounted loss leader, upon which they don't actually lose, but win, with all of the unused value thrown away, which adds up.

I can see why they wouldn't want to make it too easy for riders to consolidate the cash.


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## BCL (Dec 18, 2014)

NorthShore said:


> It seems this is the bet the transit agencies are placing (and winning at) by offering a seeming discounted loss leader, upon which they don't actually lose, but win, with all of the unused value thrown away, which adds up.
> 
> I can see why they wouldn't want to make it too easy for riders to consolidate the cash.


However, they're currently paying for a BART employee to operate a booth twice a week at a single station where they round up to the nearest dollar and require a cash payment to make up the difference. They used to have these at more stations. They have other locations where they can consolidate tickets, but they have a limited selection of tickets and round up to them. These are really ticket sales locations.

They're theoretically supposed to be providing a public service and not trying to get people to lose money. They're already encouraging people to use Clipper, so being able to transfer the value to Clipper makes sense if their mission really is serving the public.


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## sechs (Dec 29, 2014)

BCL is an edge case here.

He's (1) purposely buying round-value tickets (rather than exact value for his needs), (2) refusing to add to them to get the value that he needs, and (3) wants to consolidate the small value tickets (either to a single ticket or a Clipper card). The places/times that he can do this consolidation are inconvenient to him.

While the purpose of BART isn't to make people lose money, it's also accountable to the tax-payers. They shouldn't be spending a lot of money on rarely used service, particularly when there are ways to avoid needing it.


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## BCL (Dec 31, 2014)

sechs said:


> BCL is an edge case here.
> 
> He's (1) purposely buying round-value tickets (rather than exact value for his needs), (2) refusing to add to them to get the value that he needs, and (3) wants to consolidate the small value tickets (either to a single ticket or a Clipper card). The places/times that he can do this consolidation are inconvenient to him.
> 
> While the purpose of BART isn't to make people lose money, it's also accountable to the tax-payers. They shouldn't be spending a lot of money on rarely used service, particularly when there are ways to avoid needing it.


Specifically, I'm buying discounted tickets that come in round amounts. If I ever buy tickets with cash or credit cards, I tend to use exact change or get change.

BART uses the same ticket equipment supplier (Cubic) as Washington Metro. They have an option to add the value of a ticket to their SmarTrip cards that are similar to Clipper. It's all done in software using preexisting equipment that's regularly serviced anyways.



> http://www.wmata.com/fares/smartrip/smartrip_qanda.cfm#add_how
> 
> On Metrorail:
> 
> ...


Right now BART is spending money to provide ticket consolidating services with limited hours and locations. They have ticket machines at all stations that operate all hours the stations are open.


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