# Megabus Megaterror



## OlympianHiawatha (Jan 1, 2015)

This is scary as can be especially with the Driver speeding and continuing on despite being aware her Bus had problems!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-indiana-police-take-unsafe-megabus-out-of-service-20150101-story.html


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## fairviewroad (Jan 1, 2015)

The pressure on those drivers to complete their runs on time must be immense. And the personal pressure on some of the drivers not to lose their job by speaking out about problems must also be immense. It takes courage and involves personal risk to speak out against a corporate culture that rewards those who keep their heads down and drive fast.


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## rickycourtney (Jan 1, 2015)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> This is scary as can be especially with the Driver speeding and continuing on despite being aware her Bus had problems!


Agreed. Totally inexcusable for both the driver and the company.

Megabus is actually operated by 13 different companies, 11 of which are subsidiaries of Coach USA (who actually owns the Megabus brand). Most of the problems with Megabus at the moment seem to be centered around the Chicago hub. Makes me think that these problems might be coming from just a couple of those companies.

No matter what's caused the problem, it sounds like Coach USA needs to go into Chicago and clean house. They should also do it very publicly if they hope to improve their image.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 1, 2015)

As much as I dislike Megabus, I must fairly point out that motorcoaches, which have air suspensions, will often lose air overnight on one side more than the other and end up leaning on the road. That, however, is usually not enough to cause an accident, and the driver hitting three cars in a row is indeed inexcusable.

Coach USA should go clean house, but rumors are that they are currently experiencing financial trouble. Coach America, which was Coach USA's "cousin", has gone bankrupt and its portions were sold off separately. Some Coach America equipment ended up with Greyhound at bargain prices.


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## rickycourtney (Jan 1, 2015)

The fact that air suspensions lose air overnight isn't the story here...
It's that the three right rear air bags lost air, were not re-inflating, the driver *KNEW* the bus was leaning to one side and she *STILL* operated the bus... at 12 miles per hour *OVER* the speed limit.
That's inexcusable... she deserves her ticket for speeding and suspension failure.

But on top of that obvious suspension failure... Megabus put 67 passengers on a bus that had a defective emergency exit and an air leak in the rear brakes.
Again... inexcusable. Putting a bus out on the road like that could have started a fire or worse, a deadly crash. It's all the more inexcusable considering the company has had three accidents in three months... and that's just in Indiana.

I hope Coach USA turns Megabus around and until then I hope Indiana continues to crack down on them.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 1, 2015)

This article calls it a Van Hooper: http://www.wthr.com/story/27733454/3rd-megabus-crash-in-3-months.

Looks like maybe those Van Hools are nearing the end of their service life and should be replaced by new MCIs or Prevosts. If Coach USA keeps buying Van Hools, they're going to run into trouble sooner or later.

Defective emergency exit? I'm not surprised, those things don't even have window escape bars. Bad brakes? Well, TD925 has 6-wheel disc brakes, H3-45 has all-wheel disc brakes (all 8 wheels).


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jan 1, 2015)

Is Van Hool the only manufacturer of Double Deckers? I figure Megabus likes those because they can cram that many more pax into a single unit.


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## railiner (Jan 2, 2015)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Is Van Hool the only manufacturer of Double Deckers? I figure Megabus likes those because they can cram that many more pax into a single unit.


They are the only ones currently marketing an intercity model in the US....although Alexander-Dennis markets some for sightseeing and commuter operations. Neoplan was the first to do so over here, but they have long dropped out of the US market.

Prevost's parent corporation, Volvo, sells them in other markets, as does Setra and its parent, Daimler-Benz...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 2, 2015)

No, Alexander Dennis makes the Enviro 500, which sounds like a better machine: http://www.alexander-dennis.com/wp-content/files_mf/1413192731Enviro500GoAnywherebrochure.pdf.


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## rickycourtney (Jan 2, 2015)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Is Van Hool the only manufacturer of Double Deckers?


Yes. Van Hool is the only company that makes double decker buses for intercity transport in the US.
Alexander Dennis only makes double decker buses for the transit market and while Volvo and Setra make double decker buses for intercity transport, none are currently available in the US.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 2, 2015)

Dang it, Megabus seems to like bean counting! First they power 81 people (and barely any luggage) down the Interstate with a single Cummins ISX, then they cut maintenance and driver training, resulting in tree accidents in three months, all in Indiana.

I'm guessing it's Lakefront Lines that handles Megabus in the Midwest? Or is it Van Galder?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Jan 2, 2015)

The Enviro 500 looks like a nice solid well-built rig. For a short while we had Megabus running through Norman and those Van Hools looked pretty rickety. Other than modifying the seating to be more comfortable, putting in a john and adding luggage storage are there any other changes that would have to be made to the 500 to make it worthy of being an intercity rig?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 2, 2015)

Those double-decker Van Hools have barely any luggage storage anyway. The Enviro 500 is already available with intercity-style reclining seats and also has overhead reading lights and air vents, as seen in the brochure. Not all the seats on Megabus' Van Hools even recline. All the Enviro would need would be some luggage storage and a lavatory.

Alexander Dennis says the Enviro 500 has full air suspension and can safely cruise at highway speeds, which has been proven in commuter service.

That being said, even if you put an Enviro in a poor company's hands, you'll still have trouble.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Dang it, Megabus seems to like bean counting! First they power 81 people (and barely any luggage) down the Interstate with a single Cummins ISX, then they cut maintenance and driver training, resulting in tree accidents in three months, all in Indiana.
> 
> I'm guessing it's Lakefront Lines that handles Megabus in the Midwest? Or is it Van Galder?


Actually Megabus has their own people operating the majority of the routes - the drivers and management pool is separate from the other companies, where they usually co-tenant with. In the Midwest, the operating company is Megabus USA LLC.

Lakefront Lines operates the Buffalo-Atlanta service with their own personnel, but the service is sold as a megabus.com line. Van Galder and Wisconsin Coach Lines serve as the physical home terminal locations for some Megabus USA drivers, supervisors and vehicles (depending on the location). Megabus USA has their own window in dispatch in these facilities. But usually, all the mechanics are from the home company's facility and work on Megabus equipment.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Those double-decker Van Hools have barely any luggage storage anyway. The Enviro 500 is already available with intercity-style reclining seats and also has overhead reading lights and air vents, as seen in the brochure. Not all the seats on Megabus' Van Hools even recline. All the Enviro would need would be some luggage storage and a lavatory.
> 
> Alexander Dennis says the Enviro 500 has full air suspension and can safely cruise at highway speeds, which has been proven in commuter service.
> 
> That being said, even if you put an Enviro in a poor company's hands, you'll still have trouble.


Coach USA operates the Enviros for their Gray Line New York Sightseeing service and for Chicago Sightseeing & Trolley.

My concern with the Enviro is if it has the durability and range to handle OTR service. It can be spec'd to do it, but whether or not the equipment holds up in ground and pound use is another story.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 2, 2015)

Well, the Van Hools don't hold up in ground and pound use, so perhaps the Enviros will be better.

Lakefront runs a Buffalo-Atlanta? With J4500s or with TD925s? I checked their website and they are selling tickets for $29. I'm not sure if that would make money or not; Greyhound doesn't even run it even though Greyhound has a Maintenance Center in Atlanta. That's way too long of a Van Hool ride if it is a Van Hool, though I must say that you can't beat the price. At those fares, no wonder Megabus is having accidents left, right, and center.

Anyway, the schedule is Buffalo-Erie-Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati-Lexington-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Atlanta.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Well, the Van Hools don't hold up in ground and pound use, so perhaps the Enviros will be better.
> 
> Lakefront runs a Buffalo-Atlanta? With J4500s or with TD925s? I checked their website and they are selling tickets for $29. I'm not sure if that would make money or not; Greyhound doesn't even run it even though Greyhound has a Maintenance Center in Atlanta. That's way too long of a Van Hool ride if it is a Van Hool, though I must say that you can't beat the price. At those fares, no wonder Megabus is having accidents left, right, and center.
> 
> Anyway, the schedule is Buffalo-Erie-Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati-Lexington-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Atlanta.


John, The Buffalo-Atlanta is not a thru, but the corridor and territory that Lakefront controls. They use J45's wrapped in semi-megabus.com colors for the service. It's actually split up as two different routes - Buffalo-Cinncy and Cinncy-Atlanta, all done by Cinny drivers from Lakefront. This was done after the re-purchase of Lakefront by CUSA in 2012/2013. There is 1 daily schedule operated btwn Buffalo-Cinncy, another schedule that does Cleveland-Cinncy as a round trip turn and 2 daily schedules from Cinncy to Atlanta. This gives megabus.com coverage in this area within the confines of its existing infrastructure.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Dang it, Megabus seems to like bean counting! First they power 81 people (and barely any luggage) down the Interstate with a single Cummins ISX, then they cut maintenance and driver training, resulting in tree accidents in three months, all in Indiana.


While I cannot speak to the accident or any of the issues you have mentioned, the double decker coach is paramount to their whole business model.


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## Train2104 (Jan 2, 2015)

After a couple times using their service, I don't think I'll be using them again. Hard unreclining seats for a 7+ hour ride, no overhead luggage racks, barely any legroom (I never tried the upper level)...checked luggage that's just crushed in a pile, extra ticket instead of just a fee for another bag, etc. Greyhound is worth the fare difference, not that it's a big one anyway.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 2, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> As much as I dislike Megabus, I must fairly point out that motorcoaches, which have air suspensions, will often lose air overnight on one side more than the other and end up leaning on the road. That, however, is usually not enough to cause an accident, and the driver hitting three cars in a row is indeed inexcusable.
> 
> Coach USA should go clean house, but rumors are that they are currently experiencing financial trouble. Coach America, which was Coach USA's "cousin", has gone bankrupt and its portions were sold off separately. Some Coach America equipment ended up with Greyhound at bargain prices.


Stagecoach Group plc, the parent company of Coach USA, is financially sound and in investment mode right now in Europe, bringing megabus.com across the EU and securing several large contracts for rail service management in the UK. Coach America was spun off from Coach USA and was not affiliated with Stagecoach after the sale. However, they did re-purchase a handful of companies during the Coach America bankruptcy including Lakefront, Pacific Coast Sightseeing, and American Coach Lines of Atlanta, three companies that are co-tenants to megabus.com services.


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## railiner (Jan 3, 2015)

The relationship between the Megabus, Coach USA, and some other affiliates seems very complicated to me....

One additional relationship that I am aware of is the one between Megabus and Academy...Megabus sells Academy tickets between NYC and Atlantic City as a Megabus service. Many passenger's come to The Port looking for "Megabus" to Atlantic City...at first I told them Megabus doesn't come into the Port, but loads somewhere on the streets. Later on I found out that it was Academy. There are no Academy buses wrapped in Megabus livery, nor any other sign's at their AC gate (number 1) to even mention Megabus. I don't know, but I am assuming that Academy let's Megabus act as commission agents on the Megabus website for Academy, in exchange for Megabus not competing with them on the Atlantic City route....

To further complicate the matter, Academy actually competes with Megabus ( and everyone else), between NYC and Boston and Washington.....


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 3, 2015)

railiner said:


> The relationship between the Megabus, Coach USA, and some other affiliates seems very complicated to me....
> 
> One additional relationship that I am aware of is the one between Megabus and Academy...Megabus sells Academy tickets between NYC and Atlantic City as a Megabus service. Many passenger's come to The Port looking for "Megabus" to Atlantic City...at first I told them Megabus doesn't come into the Port, but loads somewhere on the streets. Later on I found out that it was Academy. There are no Academy buses wrapped in Megabus livery, nor any other sign's at their AC gate (number 1) to even mention Megabus. I don't know, but I am assuming that Academy let's Megabus act as commission agents on the Megabus website for Academy, in exchange for Megabus not competing with them on the Atlantic City route....
> 
> To further complicate the matter, Academy actually competes with Megabus ( and everyone else), between NYC and Boston and Washington.....


That particular relationship is definitely intriguing.

The premise of that partnership is two-fold: megabus.com wanted in on that corridor. When they launched in 2008, the city pair still drove volume and good numbers overall and they wanted to compete aganist Greyhound. It would've been crazy for them to launch that service on their own (way too much competition and capacity between Greyhound, Academy and the neighborhood buses in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx (much of which was previously operated by a now defunct division of Coach USA, Leisure Line). So the only other way in was to partner with the other major presence in the market, Academy. FT saw this as a way to get more people onto the existing schedules and plug into the "buzz" megabus.com brought, so he agreed. As you mentioned, megabus.com acts as an agent, but under contract to Academy pays them a set rate for each ticket sold.

There are now two very small black and white signs on the ticket window door and across from Academy's dispatch office that let people know about Megabus.

A similar agreement (not as complicated) was forged between Concord Coach in Maine and megabus.com to sell tickets on the Boston, MA - Portland, ME routes. Other in-house agreements are in place to sell Suburban Transit (NY-New Brunswick/Princeton) and Shortline (NY-Binghamton) tickets through megabus.com, but in all cases the buses are not wrapped in megabus.com livery, but the operator's colors.

In the case of both Academy and Shortline, you have to go to the ticket window and exchange your voucher for a paper ticket to board the bus. Even more complicated, with Academy, they have an open return policy, exactly like Greyhound. So you can only reserve a seat on the trip to Atlantic City, but not on the return.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 3, 2015)

Academy runs NYC-Washington? I thought they only ran NYC-Atlantic City and -Boston.

I didn't know Lakefront was operating the route as two segments, though it probably does have a "guaranteed" connection for through passengers. It's nice to see that they use J4500s instead of the much-less-comfortable TD925s, though I wonder how confused passengers will be when they see it. At $29 for a ticket, Lakefront probably can't earn a profit on the Atlanta-Buffalo route, even though they will probably fill every bus to the last seat. It'll be up to yield management, last-minute fare raises, and intermediate traffic to make profits. I see how the TD925s are attractive and easily profitable with their high capacity, even at very low fares, however, these J4500s are more comfortable and have more luggage capacity.

To complicate things further, Lakefront's old boss decided to use profits he got from running and selling Lakefront to start another bus line, Barons. Barons uses brand-new J4500s, but is allied to Greyhound instead of Megabus and may compete with Megabus/Lakefront in some markets. I believe the old employees of Lakefront would defect to Barons if they are still loyal to their old boss. Barons operates on the exact opposite model from Megabus/Lakefront; they run rural service making lots of stops with premium equipment at relatively high fares. Whereas Megabus/Lakefront runs fast highway service making minimal stops with Spartan equipment at very low fares.

Seems like Drucker was right: even in the bus industry, it's hard to distinguish friend from foe.


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## jis (Jan 3, 2015)

Ray Noorda of Novell invented the term "Coopetition" to describe such situations.


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## metrolinecoach111 (Jan 3, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Academy runs NYC-Washington? I thought they only ran NYC-Atlantic City and -Boston.
> 
> I didn't know Lakefront was operating the route as two segments, though it probably does have a "guaranteed" connection for through passengers. It's nice to see that they use J4500s instead of the much-less-comfortable TD925s, though I wonder how confused passengers will be when they see it. At $29 for a ticket, Lakefront probably can't earn a profit on the Atlanta-Buffalo route, even though they will probably fill every bus to the last seat. It'll be up to yield management, last-minute fare raises, and intermediate traffic to make profits. I see how the TD925s are attractive and easily profitable with their high capacity, even at very low fares, however, these J4500s are more comfortable and have more luggage capacity.


Academy is the sole contractor for BestBus, which operates the NY-DC, NY-VA and NY-DE/ DC-DE Beach services. Since their purchase of GoBus, they self-operate the NY-Newton-Cambridge line as well. The BestBus vehicles are generally co-branded as BestBus.com/Academy in Academy's silver and black scheme and the GoBuses are green and white.

Lakefront's J's are wrapped as megabus.com vehicles, but with Lakefront stripes on the bottom. People generally don't care either way - on the weekends here on the east coast, megabus.com services are operated with a mix of double-deckers, Suburban Transit Van Hools, Dillon's J's, and Dattco Van Hools and D-series coaches depending on the route. The fares and accessibility are the two things people generally look for.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 3, 2015)

Looks like Academy uses Van Hools for BestBus as well.

.....


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## railiner (Jan 4, 2015)

metrolinecoach111 said:


> FT saw this as a way to get more people onto the existing schedules and plug into the "buzz" megabus.com brought, so he agreed.


Or.....maybe Mr. Tedesco "made them an offer, they couldn't refuse".......


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