# WMATA proposed 2040 DC Metro system loop route



## afigg (Dec 6, 2013)

The WMATA planners have posted their latest proposal concept for a rerouted Blue-Yellow line loop through DC and Arlington on the PlanItMetro site: Proposed 2040 Metrorail Network. It is a rather complicated loop system with a Orange/Silver line express line running from East Falls Church to Rosslyn with multiple connections at Rosslyn. My initial reaction is that it is too expensive and the full concept won't survive cost benefit analysis with the express Orange/Silver segment & some of the interconnections in Rosslyn getting dropped. A re-routed Blue Line through Georgetown to Union Station and looping back to the Yellow Line with an interline connector at the Pentagon for a loop service could be the end result of what will be years and years of debate and analysis.

Have to give WMATA and local planners credit in that they are looking at the long term big picture and willing to make bold proposals.

The Greater Greater Washington blog is discussing the proposal: Metro maps out loop line between DC and Arlington. The map of the core loop:







Any thoughts?


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## The Davy Crockett (Dec 6, 2013)

Deep Thoughts... 

I understand that the Potomac River tunnel is a choke point, but this plan seems like overkill to solve that problem. The DC area would be better served by a heavy rail loop that follows the Beltway. When Metro was originally planned the assumption was that commuters would live in the 'burbs and work downtown, but the reality in the intervening 50 years or so is that lots of folks commute from suburb to suburb, as that is where many of the jobs are today. I don't think Maryland, Virginia or their counties and incorporated towns which contribute large sums of money to Metro would be willing to pay for something that is so heavily tilted towards benefitting DC and will do very little to ease congestion in their own neck of the 'burbs.


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## Anderson (Dec 7, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Deep Thoughts...
> 
> I understand that the Potomac River tunnel is a choke point, but this plan seems like overkill to solve that problem. The DC area would be better served by a heavy rail loop that follows the Beltway. When Metro was originally planned the assumption was that commuters would live in the 'burbs and work downtown, but the reality in the intervening 50 years or so is that lots of folks commute from suburb to suburb, as that is where many of the jobs are today. I don't think Maryland, Virginia or their counties and incorporated towns which contribute large sums of money to Metro would be willing to pay for something that is so heavily tilted towards benefitting DC and will do very little to ease congestion in their own neck of the 'burbs.


(1) My understanding is that WMATA has looked at a major "Metro Beltway" of sorts. It works in a few segments, but not in enough to justify the proposal.

(2) The other issue is, of course, that the transit net gets pretty thin outside the beltway. MARC and VRE are nice, but their utility is limited on a lot of fronts. In the meantime, you've got a lot of _very_ thin, limited-hour bus service (Montgomery County is mediocre at best, and I've heard not-so-great things about Arlington and Alexandria, let alone Fairfax).

(2a) The cost of trying to cover the suburbs with the level of transit density envisioned for downtown DC is pretty close to astronomical: You either need _lots_ of inbound spurs connecting with the existing lines or lots of cross-connections.

(2b) And of course, if you ended up with a major rider share in the suburbs...it's a good question how much ridership the Metro plus a streetcar/light rail system could take.


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## afigg (Dec 7, 2013)

The Davy Crockett said:


> Deep Thoughts...
> 
> I understand that the Potomac River tunnel is a choke point, but this plan seems like overkill to solve that problem. The DC area would be better served by a heavy rail loop that follows the Beltway. When Metro was originally planned the assumption was that commuters would live in the 'burbs and work downtown, but the reality in the intervening 50 years or so is that lots of folks commute from suburb to suburb, as that is where many of the jobs are today. I don't think Maryland, Virginia or their counties and incorporated towns which contribute large sums of money to Metro would be willing to pay for something that is so heavily tilted towards benefitting DC and will do very little to ease congestion in their own neck of the 'burbs.


A heavy rail Metro Beltway loop would be staggeringly expensive. It was one of the routes shown in the TAG analysis viewgraph presentations of several years ago. A Beltway transit loop route is just not going to have the peak passenger traffic to justify heavy rail. The heavy traffic is still downtown or to the major job centers like Alexandria, Tysons (which is getting heavy rail of course).

One or more light rail lines in circular or connecting routes are a better fit to the passenger loads and provides access to more places with closer stop spacing. The Purple Line is a perfect example which will provide transit access from New Carrollton to College Park to Bethesda and connect to the radial Metro lines at no less than 4 locations. Runs inside but roughly parallel to the Beltway. There are studies underway or starting on other possible light rail, streetcar, BRT routes in the region outside of the city core. Safe to say that any proposed light rail or streetcar line will connect to the Metro system at one or more locations. The Metro system will be the high volume and speed backbone, the streetcar and light rail lines branching off and connecting the lines and filling in the gaps.


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## afigg (Dec 7, 2013)

Anderson said:


> (1) My understanding is that WMATA has looked at a major "Metro Beltway" of sorts. It works in a few segments, but not in enough to justify the proposal.


I have the TAG presentations, so I located the one with Beltway Line. It was TAG #7 presented here at the PlanItMetro site in 2011 with the file link here for those interested TAG_07_Meeting.pdf (63 page PDF). This one has a number of transit planning goodies: an extended streetcar network, the concept Beltway Line, Brown Line, relocated Silver Line with Rosslyn-Ballston bypass, a bunch of Metro Line extensions (to Bowie MD, Gainesville VA, Lorton VA, National Harbor). The Beltway Line projection was only for 115K passengers, which is not a lot for a very, very expensive 50+ mile heavy rail loop. Which is where light rail and BRT come in.


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## Anderson (Dec 7, 2013)

Ah, yes. I got to read through that report as well...the issue I see with bringing in lots of mode shifts is that while I'm not opposed to transfers, too many mode shifts will tend to lose riders (especially if they have to effectively wait outside for an extended period of time...do _not_ get me started on my experiences with RideOn on the weekends).

The Metrorail extensions make a lot of sense...the issue in general is that there's no good way to get folks around the core fairly quickly without spending a _lot_ of money, forcing mode shifts, or having fairly low-ridership services, while the alternative is increased crowding in and around downtown DC. With that said, if they prove to be serious about separating the Silver Line, it might make sense to have it head out along one of the proposed Brown Line segments, for example. The other idea that I saw hinted at in another proposal would be to mostly separate the Blue Line and send it out on the other leg of the Brown Line.

Edit: One major issue nobody seems to be looking at is what happens if DC actually starts backing off on the height limits, even in limited areas. Pack another 100,000 people into the District and things get interesting. Pack another 250,000 in and I can't see the current system taking it well at all.


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## Heading North (Dec 7, 2013)

As an Alexandrian working in DC, I see a lot to like here (which you'll almost NEVER hear me say regarding WMATA)--lots of new links including a one-seat Metro trip to Capitol Hill (without taking the long way) and Union Station. The big question for me is how long it would take to traverse the loop (knowing how pokey Metro trains can be, as an ex-NYer) and if the headways would be sufficient to transfer in the opposite direction as needed. Of course it's decades away so these aren't immediate concerns. But considering that in perfect conditions, the travel time to much of the District's business core from Alexandria is 15-20 minutes, a slow loop that adds time and inconvenient transfers may actually hurt ridership. Interesting concept.


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## The Davy Crockett (Dec 10, 2013)

"What are your thoughts?"

So folks can trash them... hboy:

Where do we want growth to occur? Sprawling farther and farther from DC? Or closer to DC? A Beltway line might not have huge ridership to begin with, but given time, when done in conjunction with transit oriented development, that would change. Look at Arlington County.

An 'inner loop' Metro line would mostly benefit DC, so politically it is DOA. And ain't never gonna happen.


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## afigg (Dec 12, 2013)

The Greater Greater Washington blog has a post with many comment responses on the proposed loop in the context of a dual Blue-Yellow line loop: How might the new Metro loop work? The loop proposal is long range planning so if the loop is built, the final version will undoubtedly look different than what is proposed. Still, a very ambitious proposal that would change Metro travel patterns from VA into DC in a big way.


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## Ryan (Dec 13, 2013)

Greater Greater Washington has a new article up today, with a non-loop solution (that quite frankly makes my brain hurt). The idea is well thought out and definitely has some merit:






http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/21096/can-metro-add-capacity-without-a-downtown-loop/


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## Anderson (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah, the downtown transfers make my head hurt.

The biggest issue I see with this is that, seeing as WMATA is looking at a few longer-term extensions (Lorton in particular), the dual Red Line in VA gets clunky. One solution might be a third (or fourth) track Pentagon-Old Town (maybe put the Yellow Line underground?) so you have the capacity to run both Red and Yellow at full(er) capacity along there?

Edit: I'd be curious to see this overlaid with a basic streetcar system as well.


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## afigg (Dec 13, 2013)

RyanS said:


> Greater Greater Washington has a new article up today, with a non-loop solution (that quite frankly makes my brain hurt). The idea is well thought out and definitely has some merit:


I saw the post to GGW. It is an interesting fantasy plan, but pretty much impossible to implement. It would require that new tunnels be dug and connected to existing tunnels and tracks in the city core. That would require that the segment of the line be shut down for months, maybe longer, to cut through the tunnel walls, build a new spur and then connect or re-route the tracks. The WMATA loop concept connects to the existing tracks at above ground locations or just about where the tracks are entering the tunnels where the new connection could be dug out with cut and cover. The underground routes through the city core will stay that way, period.
The map in the image you posted would also break numerous existing direct connections to downtown stations that many people have likely used to determine where to buy places to live. Ballston to Foggy Bottom-GWU or Farragut Sq West. Yellow Line from King st to Pentagon City to L'Enfant, Archives, Gallery Place. Re-routing the Blue Line to Georgetown and along M-Street will probably be acceptable because the Blue Line is losing out anyway to the Orange/Silver Line for service frequencies. I think re-routing the Yellow to the loop in the WMATA concept will be the non-starter when it comes time for public comments and feedback, regardless of how crowded L'Enfant is.

I don't see the benefits in this GGW proposal because I don't see how it improves flow through the city or provides new direct connections that would be any more useful than what the system has now. The odds of anything close to this proposal ever getting built are close to nil. The Blue Line re-route to Georgetown and under M Street is what is slowly building public support and acceptance - even in Georgetown.


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