# Ridership per route segment data



## DesertDude (Oct 29, 2016)

I know that Amtrak's state fact sheets contain boarding/alighting information for each station, and NARP's fact sheets contain the top ten city pairs per route. Beyond that information, is there anywhere I can find granular ridership data which shows the average (or median) number of passengers on a particular train between stations? For example, I'm imagining a histogram on which every bar or data point represents the number of passengers on the SWC between Gallup and Albuquerque, Albuquerque and Lamy, etc. This would give a nice graphical representation of which route segments get a lot of ridership opposed to the ones which don't.

Is detailed ridership data like this available anywhere?


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## Anderson (Oct 30, 2016)

I've seen a chart on this (once, for a single train) so it _exists_ (IIRC this was either in the PIP for the SWC or in a presentation to NARP involving the Zephyr...and I think it was in the latter). It is not generally available to the public, however.


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## west point (Oct 30, 2016)

The information you seek would be most helpful for us to know where support the need for more capacity. Amtrak does not even break down the revenue passenger miles for each train only system RPMs.

One example of this lack of information was the Crescent Charlottesville <> WASH. Once the Lynchburg train started we saw a jump in revenue but not passengers on Crescent indicating longer trip segments for average passenger. Amtrak now limits bookings CVS <> North on the Crescent.

The information might reinforce a call for a day train Atlanta <> NYP on Crescent route or by way of Raleigh.

We can be certain there are other routes as well but until there is more equipment it is just a paper exercise.


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## Paulus (Oct 30, 2016)

I've seen it for California's trains, but mostly pretty out of date. It may show up again in a LOSSAN presentation in near future though. I doubt you'd ever see it for an LD train however.


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## Anderson (Oct 30, 2016)

I've seen similar behavior on the Meteor north of RVR. IMHO this is, in no small part, a result of pressure from the states not to "cannibalize" state-funded routes. It really wouldn't do to tell Virginia "Hey, we're going to charge less for the train you're _not_ on the hook for while making you raise fares to avoid a subsidy on your train." Space preservation is another factor, but I think the pressure to not undercut the state-supported trains with LD trains has a _lot_ to do with it.


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## DesertDude (Nov 5, 2016)

west point said:


> The information you seek would be most helpful for us to know where support the need for more capacity.


Agreed. By the same token, I don't think it hurts to look at the parts of the histogram with low ridership and ask how to improve ridership on those segments. If the capacity is there (and presumably going to stay there), why not try to fill those seats and improve fare box recovery?

To be honest, I made this post because I was thinking about the Zephyr. I'd imagine the lowest bars on a CZ ridership histogram would be between Reno and Glenwood Springs. While the bad calling time in SLC is a problem, I don't think Amtrak has to be resigned to low ridership through Utah. Amtrak could market itself better in Utah Valley (over half a million people, and Provo has better calling times than SLC in both directions). Plus, a growing number of commercial flights at Provo airport shows strong demand for an intermediate market.


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