# [U.K.[ Modern rail travel is a slow-grinding nightmare...



## Chaz (Mar 31, 2016)

(Passenger Rail U.K. Mar 30 Guardian) Modern rail travel is a slow-grinding nightmare of too many people and too little space

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/30/modern-rail-travel-nightmare-too-many-people-too-little-space-stuart-heritage

Excerpt:

"This is what modern rail travel has become. It is a slow-grinding nightmare of too many people and too little space, and you have to be prepared to sell your children just to pay for a ticket. Modern rail travel turns people ugly. It makes them petty and territorial. It transforms them into the sort of people who compulsively put a full stop at the start of their tweets, so the rest of the world can see just how angry the train companies have made them.

And this reality is reflected nowhere in the wider culture. I wish it was. I have a dream that one day Michael Portillo will make a BBC 2 series entitled Great British Commuter Railway Journeys, where he will attempt to wax lyrical about Bradshaw’s description of the 7.46 Haywards Heath to St Pancras while being nudged and shoved and repeatedly smacked in the goolies by the handlebars of an unfolded bike until all his teeth turn yellow and fall out from stress."


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## Mystic River Dragon (Mar 31, 2016)

The last time I took a train in England was in the early 1960s, when my mother and I went there for the summer to visit my English grandmother. She lived on the south coast, and we had many delightful trips from there to London and back. I especially remember how much I loved the "compartments," where you walked down the corridor, opened a door into basically a small room with about six seats, and sat in that compartment (sometimes with others; sometimes, if you were lucky, you had it to yourself  ).

I am so very grateful I got to do that then, especially after reading this and seeing how awful it has become  .


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## jis (Mar 31, 2016)

They are actually victim of their own success, as ridership is growing faster than they can add infrastructure.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Mar 31, 2016)

That's an interesting point, jis. Is there a lesson in that for us in the US? Or is Britain so much smaller geographically that we wouldn't be likely to have that problem?

Also, I am reading a recent mystery series, set in Britain, where the main characters live in a small town and often take the train into London to avoid the hefty "congestion fee" for driving. If the author has her facts right, and there is such a fee, then that would be another incentive to take the train. (Sort of like slapping a huge gas tax on NJ drivers would get them to commute on NJ Transit--well, maybe not  ).


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 31, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> That's an interesting point, jis. Is there a lesson in that for us in the US? Or is Britain so much smaller geographically that we wouldn't be likely to have that problem?
> 
> Also, I am reading a recent mystery series, set in Britain, where the main characters live in a small town and often take the train into London to avoid the hefty "congestion fee" for driving. If the author has her facts right, and there is such a fee, then that would be another incentive to take the train. (Sort of like slapping a huge gas tax on NJ drivers would get them to commute on NJ Transit--well, maybe not  ).


Yes, they do have a congestion charge, several other European cities have this (Oslo and Stockholm come to mind) as well.


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## jis (Mar 31, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> That's an interesting point, jis. Is there a lesson in that for us in the US? Or is Britain so much smaller geographically that we wouldn't be likely to have that problem?
> 
> Also, I am reading a recent mystery series, set in Britain, where the main characters live in a small town and often take the train into London to avoid the hefty "congestion fee" for driving. If the author has her facts right, and there is such a fee, then that would be another incentive to take the train. (Sort of like slapping a huge gas tax on NJ drivers would get them to commute on NJ Transit--well, maybe not  ).


Yes, London has congestion fee for entering the CBD with a motor vehicle at some hours. But the bigger reason that people use public transport is that it is so incredibly convenient. You get a single fare instrument - the Oyster Card in case of London, and it works for everything, ... literally everything, and all under a single zoned fare plan - suburban trains, buses, subway, ferries, trams, everything. you just keep tapping in and out. It automatically stops charging you once you reach the total of a day pass fare taking into consideration zones and times of day that you traveled.

Away fro London, say in Scotland, between Edinburgh and Glasgow, there is intercity service on an average one train every ten minutes or better most of the day when all four or five possible routes are taken together. The main route accounts for four trains per hour. That route is in the process of getting electrified. Until now it was run using a large collection of Turbostar DMUs. The entire nature of the service something that is unseen and unheard of anywhere in the US. Not even LIRR or MNRR comes even remotely close. And once you get to your destination in most cases there is very convenient to quite usable local transit system, which is lacking in most US destinations. Even destinations in NJ reachable by NJT from New York have barely usable local transit.


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## trainviews (Apr 1, 2016)

Well actually the bridge and tunnel tolls act a lot like a congestion charge when it comes to NYC-NJ commutes, and to some extent from Long Island too. It is one of the reasons why New York has far the highest transit share in the country (congestion being the other).


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## jis (Apr 1, 2016)

Interestingly, London also has a congestion fee (sort of) on fares across the board. Everything is much higher if a trip before 9:30am is involved on a weekday as I recall. This includes day passes and such, and the Oyster system keeps track of all that to deduct the right fare, or surcharge as the case may be.


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## DetroitTed (Apr 1, 2016)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> The last time I took a train in England was in the early 1960s, when my mother and I went there for the summer to visit my English grandmother. She lived on the south coast, and we had many delightful trips from there to London and back. I especially remember how much I loved the "compartments," where you walked down the corridor, opened a door into basically a small room with about six seats, and sat in that compartment (sometimes with others; sometimes, if you were lucky, you had it to yourself  ).
> 
> I am so very grateful I got to do that then, especially after reading this and seeing how awful it has become  .


I also spent the summer in England in the early 1960's ( 1960 to be exact) with my grandparents ( in Lincolnshire) and credit that trip with fostering my life long love of train travel. I go back to England about every year or so since the early '00's and invariably travel mostly by train. In general it's still a pleasant and timely experience. However, some trips can end up being SRO in the vestibules for the entire trip. One tip:, if possible, try and get a seat reservation. This makes a great deal of difference for your enjoyment. My next trip will be next January and I'm going to do a Capitol tour by train from London to Edinburgh to Cardiff and back to London. Can't wait( and second tip: get a Britrail pass, if you qualify)


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## jis (Apr 1, 2016)

Yup. BritrailPass is great!

On my last trip I did the Heart of Wales Line and then from Swansea to Edinburgh on WCMLwith two changes, and back to Milton Keynes by Trans Pennine, and finally MK to London Euston by Virgin on WCML.

I might land up there again over Thanksgiving this year. We'll see.


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## John Bredin (Apr 1, 2016)

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." :giggle:


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## caravanman (Apr 2, 2016)

Important to remember that these "nightmare" UK train rides are mostly commuter problems... It is cheaper to live outside the big cities and travel in by train for work each day. It has always been a crush and always will be, whether London, Tokyo, or Mumbai !

Outside the "rush hours" train travel is still pleasant here in the UK for many people, but some popular routes do get overcrowded off peak too.

Ed.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 4, 2016)

caravanman said:


> It is cheaper to live outside the big cities and travel in by train for work each day. It has always been a crush and always will be, whether London, Tokyo, or Mumbai !
> 
> Outside the "rush hours" train travel is still pleasant here in the UK for many people, but some popular routes do get overcrowded off peak too.
> 
> Ed.


I remember reading that when the Intercity trains started in the 70's they put Bristol within commuting distance of London and house prices went up there (and in other cities) at the time.


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## jis (Apr 4, 2016)

It had an even more spectacular effect on the Western half of Berkshire.

I just found a relatively low RT fare to London over Thanksgiving, so put a hold on it while I figure out some other logistics. London hotels are always a challenge, though I do have a few good fallbacks at reasonable prices.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 5, 2016)

jis said:


> I just found a relatively low RT fare to London over Thanksgiving, so put a hold on it while I figure out some other logistics. London hotels are always a challenge, though I do have a few good fallbacks at reasonable prices.


I humbly suggest the Quest Hotel (not really, it was a glorified hostel).


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 5, 2016)

jis said:


> It had an even more spectacular effect on the Western half of Berkshire.
> 
> I just found a relatively low RT fare to London over Thanksgiving, so put a hold on it while I figure out some other logistics. London hotels are always a challenge, though I do have a few good fallbacks at reasonable prices.


What, no invitation to stay @ Buckingham Palace? Don't they know who you are?


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 5, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> What, no invitation to stay @ Buckingham Palace? Don't they know who you are?


I suspect she has to be discreet and keep her guests at Clarence House or Sandringham House.


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## jis (Apr 5, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > It had an even more spectacular effect on the Western half of Berkshire.
> ...


What do you think? I have a reputation and connections like that of the_traveler? No my friend, I am an itinerant, even though from the erstwhile Jewel in the Crown. If I asked I would be shooed off to India House for them to figure out some hovel somewhere on the east side. 

No. I usually stay at one of the Imperial group's hotels around Russel Square. Convenient, close to the Piccadilly Line station (straight shot from Heathrow and to Kings X/St. Pancras International), and all singles below 100GBP per night. Small but adequate rooms with ensuite.


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