# Tale of Width of Rail Road Tracks



## sky12065 (Apr 5, 2009)

Railroad tracks. This is fascinating.

Be sure to read the final paragraph; your understanding of it will depend on the earlier part of the content.

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the US railroads.

Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tram-ways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and England ) for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever.

So the next time you are handed a Specification/Procedure/Process and wonder 'What horse's butt came up with it?' you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' butts.)

Now, the twist to the story:

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on it's launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRB's. The SRB's are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah .

The engineers who designed the SRB's would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRB's had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRB's had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's butt. And you thought being a horse's patutti wasn't important? Ancient horse's butts control almost everything... and horses butts in modern times have been controlling everything else.


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 5, 2009)

Sky, that's a nice story. It's one of those internet myths.

'Scuze me while I run off and document this...

Ok, got it.

Snopes.com

And that Snopes page left something important out; the Romans didn't run chariots on their roads. Chariots were expensive vehicles that would quickly wear out on rough roads. Chariots were transported in carts.


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## jis (Apr 5, 2009)

For a more complete story see ROMAN CHARIOTS, RAILROAD TRACKS, MILSPECS, AND URBAN LEGENDS. It is a PDF document, so you will need Adobe Acrobat to read it. And it is from the NASA Standards web site too.


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 5, 2009)

jis said:


> For a more complete story see ROMAN CHARIOTS, RAILROAD TRACKS, MILSPECS, AND URBAN LEGENDS. It is a PDF document, so you will need Adobe Acrobat to read it. And it is from the NASA Standards web site too.


Nice find. Better explanation about the chariots.


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## Sam31452 (Apr 6, 2009)

> So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's butt


That may be, but if the odds are 1: 80 that you will be killed during transport, then I hardly would call a Space Shuttle the world's most advanced transportation system.


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## sky12065 (Apr 6, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Sky, that's a nice story. It's one of those internet myths.
> 'Scuze me while I run off and document this...
> 
> Ok, got it.
> ...


I suspected the possibility and that's why I made a disclaimer in the topic description. Never thought about checking Snopes though!


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 6, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's butt
> 
> 
> That may be, but if the odds are 1: 80 that you will be killed during transport, then I hardly would call a Space Shuttle the world's most advanced transportation system.


That and the fact that it usually ends the trip at the same place it started from.


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## jis (Apr 6, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > For a more complete story see ROMAN CHARIOTS, RAILROAD TRACKS, MILSPECS, AND URBAN LEGENDS. It is a PDF document, so you will need Adobe Acrobat to read it. And it is from the NASA Standards web site too.
> ...


As a matter of full disclosure I should mention that I spend almost half of my professional life in developing standards, but mostly for enterprise systems and software, not rail gauges or structures. Notwithstanding that, it was just a matter of digging this up from the standards community and did not take much of an effort to find it. It is a well known thing in that community.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Apr 6, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Sam31452 said:
> 
> 
> > > So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's butt
> ...


It doesnt really end up back at the same point on its own power. It lands in Edward's Air Force Base in TX then gets on its special 747 and flys back to florida and then sent back to the pad. to think one day they thought the shuttle would be taking off every 90 days :lol: ah the dreamers..


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 6, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > Sam31452 said:
> ...


Only lands at Edwards if weather at the cape is too bad. But you're right it hitches a piggyback ride home sometimes.


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## gswager (Apr 7, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> It doesnt really end up back at the same point on its own power. It lands in Edward's Air Force Base in TX then gets on its special 747 and flys back to florida and then sent back to the pad. to think one day they thought the shuttle would be taking off every 90 days :lol: ah the dreamers..


That's California, not Texas!


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## PetalumaLoco (Apr 7, 2009)

gswager said:


> Long Train Runnin said:
> 
> 
> > It doesnt really end up back at the same point on its own power. It lands in Edward's Air Force Base in TX then gets on its special 747 and flys back to florida and then sent back to the pad. to think one day they thought the shuttle would be taking off every 90 days :lol: ah the dreamers..
> ...


Remind me not to let LTR drive...


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## Long Train Runnin' (Apr 7, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> gswager said:
> 
> 
> > Long Train Runnin said:
> ...



Okay okay my thought process was a little off at midnight in my own time zone :lol: Plus I'm sure I was thing Houston as in the control center after the shuttle clears the tower and is shifted from florida's control room to Houston. :lol: Aside from the state the rest of the statement is true


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## DET63 (May 9, 2009)

Sam31452 said:


> > So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's butt
> 
> 
> That may be, but if the odds are 1: 80 that you will be killed during transport, then I hardly would call a Space Shuttle the world's most advanced transportation system.


Yeah, but were the odds that much better riding on a chariot? 

What goes around . . .


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## jis (May 9, 2009)

gswager said:


> That's California, not Texas!


What? Texas hasn't incorporated California as one of its territories yet? :lol: Darn! Time to complain to Guvnor Perry I suppose :lol: :lol:


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