# Ticket punch patterns



## JSmith (Dec 6, 2009)

I was wondering what the deal is with how the conductors punch somewhat complicated patterns into the ticket stubs. I did a short round trip this weekend to visit friends and noticed on the way out I got two punches that look like the letter M or maybe a bat, and on the way home just one punch that looks like a bird's foot. Are they specific to each conductor? Does the number or position on the stub mean anything? Is this just a bit of old railroad tradition that lingers on or does it still serve a useful purpose?


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## Trainmans daughter (Dec 6, 2009)

Ooooh, good question, JSmith. Hope someone answers it. Yesterday, we rode on The Polar Express Train in Sacramento, and the conductor's punch on our special gold round trip ticket was the "M" pattern you mentioned. To me, however, it looked more like an extracted molar with two roots. (My husband is a dentist, so that might explain my interpretation). Last year's punch was a raggety star pattern. So, I've been wondering the same thing about punch patterns.


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 6, 2009)

The idea is that each conductor's punch is unique, a signature, if you will. We punch cardstock tickets, cash fares, remit slips, OBS overtime claims, and other things, sometimes in addition to a handwritten signature, sometimes not.

Mine looks like a circle with a line through it (Chuljin, do you care to scan one of your stubs here? , but I have seen a mitten, a teddy bear missing an ear, a rustic heart, a star, a VW bug, a tree, an X, a spoon, in addition to other not-so-easily-identified shapes.

In theory, your cardstock ticket will be canceled on the top in the vicinity of the C, and your receipt somewhere over your name. In reality, it's wherever we can. When your ticket is canceled, the revenue portion is rendered void, and your receipt is punched so any subsequent conductors will (hopefully) be able to identify the punch as one of that crew's (I know some conductors who will take a seat check and ask each conductor to punch it, so they have a sample of each cut, for comparison.)

Travel light!

~BJG

edit: some conductors will double-cancel tickets, some only once - it's personal preference, I think, as long as the ticket is canceled.



JSmith said:


> I was wondering what the deal is with how the conductors punch somewhat complicated patterns into the ticket stubs. I did a short round trip this weekend to visit friends and noticed on the way out I got two punches that look like the letter M or maybe a bat, and on the way home just one punch that looks like a bird's foot. Are they specific to each conductor? Does the number or position on the stub mean anything? Is this just a bit of old railroad tradition that lingers on or does it still serve a useful purpose?


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## amtrakwolverine (Dec 6, 2009)

sense its like a signature does that mean you work on commission so you get paid depending on how many tickets you punch.


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## Ryan (Dec 6, 2009)

That's amazingly cool, thanks for sharing!

So when you graduate to conductorhood, how do you decide what your punch is going to look like? Is there some super-sekrit conductor database/store where you guys go and order your punch and ensure that it's unique?


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 6, 2009)

Nope. It's a signature in the sense that I am the conductor who lifted that ticket, therefore am responsible for having checked the name, travel dates, fare plan, destination, etc.

Travel light!

~BJG



amtrakwolverine said:


> sense its like a signature does that mean you work on commission so you get paid depending on how many tickets you punch.


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 6, 2009)

It was more like, "Here's your punch. Memorize the punch number, and you can sharpen it by punching through medium-grit sandpaper."

There are only about 3000 conductors in the Amtrak system, so I'm sure it's not all that difficult to have unique punches made - someone, no doubt, gets paid big bucks to come up with unique punch shapes :lol:

Travel light!

~BJG



HokieNav said:


> That's amazingly cool, thanks for sharing!
> So when you graduate to conductorhood, how do you decide what your punch is going to look like? Is there some super-sekrit conductor database/store where you guys go and order your punch and ensure that it's unique?


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## TVRM610 (Dec 6, 2009)

There is a company that makes these type of punches called "BV Tool company" you can see all the many designs they offer if you do an easy search on google. They used to run about $40 or so.


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 7, 2009)

That was a fun search! I saw a number of punch cuts that were close to something I recognized, but - alas - none that resembled mine.

And no VW bugs! :lol:

Travel light!

~BJG



TVRM610 said:


> There is a company that makes these type of punches called "BV Tool company" you can see all the many designs they offer if you do an easy search on google. They used to run about $40 or so.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 7, 2009)

BlueJeanGirl said:


> That was a fun search! I saw a number of punch cuts that were close to something I recognized, but - alas - none that resembled mine. And no VW bugs! :lol:
> 
> Travel light!
> 
> ...



You can see all of that companies designs by clicking here

An interesting thread I never noticed the differences until just now when I looked at some stubs.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks long train... I knew there was an easy way to do that... but too tired to figure it out last night.


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## JSmith (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks for the great inside information and the link to the die shape images.

Is it completely up to the conductor how they use their punch? I think the conductor who punched the M shape on my receipt Saturday made it by actually punching three times, turning the punch slightly to create the 3 points at the bottom of the M. So the shape he created may not even be the shape of the punch die itself!


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 7, 2009)

Wow, I cannot imagine canceling a ticket three times! I have some joint issues (lateral and medial epicondylitis bilaterally, for those who wish to know) and have a tough time canceling tickets once.

I believe as long as the ticket is punched, it's at the conductor's discretion where and how many times.

Travel light!

~BJG



JSmith said:


> Thanks for the great inside information and the link to the die shape images.
> Is it completely up to the conductor how they use their punch? I think the conductor who punched the M shape on my receipt Saturday made it by actually punching three times, turning the punch slightly to create the 3 points at the bottom of the M. So the shape he created may not even be the shape of the punch die itself!


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> An interesting thread I never noticed the differences until just now when I looked at some stubs.


If you want to see something interesting look at a onboard ticket receipt. There is a place where the conductor can mark payment due. It is setup where you can ride the train and then mail a check in after to pay for it. It may have that in place, but I don't know if they actually allow it or if it is a remnant of the past.


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## Asst Conductor OKJ (Dec 7, 2009)

> If you want to see something interesting look at a onboard ticket receipt. There is a place where the conductor can mark payment due. It is setup where you can ride the train and then mail a check in after to pay for it. It may have that in place, but I don't know if they actually allow it or if it is a remnant of the past.


I would strongly discourage attempting such a task, as you will end up paying an exhorberent amount for not having a ticket when you board the train (full bucket fare, plus an added service fee for buying on board the train if you are at a staffed station), and it is the conductors discretion to use at their own judgment. I can think of one such situation where I have used the PMT DUE feature in my career, and my partner has never used it. Its intended purpose is for use in a situation where the pax has insufficient funds for their trip. The first option is to sell them to the furthest destination that the passenger can afford. PMT DUE is a *LAST* resort, and in all reality you stand a better chance of being removed from the train before the conductor will use the PMT DUE feature.


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## railiner (Dec 8, 2009)

I looked thru my collectibles and found a conductor's punch that cuts a keystone shape. Also found a Pullman conductor's punch (much smaller) that makes a simple round hole but has a small chamber that retains the punched out paper until a sliding cover is opened to empty same.


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## JSmith (Dec 8, 2009)

BlueJeanGirl said:


> Wow, I cannot imagine canceling a ticket three times! I have some joint issues (lateral and medial epicondylitis bilaterally, for those who wish to know) and have a tough time canceling tickets once.


Well, maybe he was living out a "Polar Express" conductor fantasy. :lol:


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 8, 2009)

I did notice none of my sleeper tickets stubs were ever punched. I guess because most of the time the SCA collects it.


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 8, 2009)

:lol:

Perhaps he was. I know some conductors who will punch a child's seat check with their name or initials if time allows, so it's well within the realm of possibility.

Travel light!

~BJG



JSmith said:


> Well, maybe he was living out a "Polar Express" conductor fantasy. :lol:


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 8, 2009)

That's a likely scenario. It's also just as likely the conductor cancels the revenue portion of the ticket at a later time, at the office area or at a table in the lounge car.

:::BJG is now running and ducking:::

Travel light!

~BJG



Long Train Runnin said:


> I did notice none of my sleeper tickets stubs were ever punched. I guess because most of the time the SCA collects it.


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## Shanghai (Dec 8, 2009)

Stephen, I like die 391.


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## alanh (Dec 9, 2009)

Mark Twain said:


> Conductor, when you receive a fare,Punch in the presence of the passenjare!
> 
> A blue trip slip for an eight-cent fare,
> 
> ...


Now just try to get it out of your head.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 9, 2009)

Shanghai said:


> Stephen, I like die 391.


:lol: hard to say what it is. At first I thought it was a small person, but now I am thinking its a christmas tree.


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## chuljin (Dec 10, 2009)

Wish I'd noticed this thread sooner  I've been subconsciously avoiding AU to avoid heartbreak. 



BlueJeanGirl said:


> Mine looks like a circle with a line through it (Chuljin, do you care to scan one of your stubs here?


 Enjoy! 









alanh said:


> Mark Twain said:
> 
> 
> > Conductor, when you receive a fare,Punch in the presence of the passenjare!
> ...


Since it either (it's never been set to) or (I don't know the) music, it won't be there long.

And, strangely enough, you can find out through careful observation that something similar is used even today on the Pacific Surfliner...roughly, 'darker' seatchecks for destinations further from LA.


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