# Onboard Bathrooms



## laurenpl (Dec 31, 2017)

Just curious why I read so much about dirty restrooms onboard. As I understand it, restrooms start out clean, but are never cleaned the entire route. If onboard crew do not wish to service them, why aren't they serviced during longer stops?


----------



## TiBike (Dec 31, 2017)

I doubt any of the longer stops are scheduled to be long enough to clean a significant number of the restrooms on a train. Unless Amtrak had a platoon of cleaners standing by. That's best case, which assumes that long distance trains reliably run on time, which they don't. Even when they do, the longer stops are often shortened to stay on schedule.

Amtrak is already paying on board staff to keep the trains clean. Why pay for the same work (or lack thereof) twice?


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie (Dec 31, 2017)

Its not the crew who "dirty" up the restrooms. So, I have to ask why aren't passengers a bit more courteous toward others?

Honestly, if I had a guest in my home do to my bathroom, what they don't think twice about doing to the bathrooms onboard LD Amtrak trains, they would never be invited back.


----------



## the_traveler (Dec 31, 2017)

If other passengers were not slobs, then the bathrooms would not be so dirty, right?


----------



## tricia (Dec 31, 2017)

If other passengers were not slobs AND the on-board staff whose job (in part) is to clean and tidy the bathrooms actually reliably did that job, then the bathrooms would not be so dirty.

As it is, only some passengers are not slobs, and only some staff do much cleaning. YMMV, from one train to another, as to what you actually encounter.


----------



## TiBike (Dec 31, 2017)

No, high traffic, public bathrooms need regular attention. Without it, conditions deteriorate quickly. Not all the bathrooms are hell holes. Some staff do their job, some don't.


----------



## laurenpl (Dec 31, 2017)

My husband and I are scheduled to do the CZ in May....his first time ever on a train (I went from NJ to FL when we were children, in coach). He retires next month, and it's a bucket list thing. We've reserved a roomette. But our daughter and grandchildren went from Ashland, Kentucky, to Philadelphia in coach last Friday. This would have been around the midpoint of the Cardinal eastbound route. Although she loved the train, she said that the bathrooms were the worst public restrooms she's ever seen, and she would never ride again if this is the norm. I've read a lot of similar comments where guests claim that restrooms are never cleaned once a train pulls out of the origin station. Can anyone comment? Although I'm sure no one wants to clean them, one would think that Amtrak would insist since this seems to be a recurring problem/comment from many travelers. It seems like a relatively easy fix if this is what keeps folks from traveling by train?


----------



## niemi24s (Dec 31, 2017)

laurenpl said:


> Can anyone comment?


Others already have. Some people are slobs, some don't do their jobs. What else can possibly be said?


----------



## laurenpl (Dec 31, 2017)

Sorry....comments crossed in cyberspace.


----------



## Lonestar648 (Dec 31, 2017)

I have seen the bathrooms on some long flights deteriorate. Maybe its me, but if the water sprays out from high pressure, i wipe it up. but i can tell others do not. In the sleeper, most attendants do try to keep the public bathrooms and shower clean, but it is hard to check during their busy times, especially when it only takes one person to ruin it for the rest.


----------



## laurenpl (Dec 31, 2017)

I guess my point is not whether folks are slobs....many are. But it's the same in all public places whether a McDonalds, or a gas station, or a sports stadium. But regardless of how the public treats them, it's a given that they need attention occasionally. From what I've read over the last several weeks as we research train travel, this is very common onboard trains. Paper towel waste containers are never emptied, so they overflow. Soap dispensers are empty. I realize that it's not a fun job, but it's a necessary job. Just curious how/why Amtrak doesn't insist that crew members maintain acceptable levels of cleanliness on trains. If it's only occasional, there sure are a lot of comments out there on train reviews.


----------



## Lonestar648 (Dec 31, 2017)

I have seen signs asking passengers to report a bathroom needing attention, which I have done many times.


----------



## pennyk (Dec 31, 2017)

laurenpl said:


> Just curious how/why Amtrak doesn't insist that crew members maintain acceptable levels of cleanliness on trains.


On long distance trains, coach attendants do clean the restrooms periodically (and make announcements encouraging passengers to keep the restrooms clean). However, as stated previously, many passengers are slobs.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Dec 31, 2017)

laurenpl said:


> I guess my point is not whether folks are slobs....many are. But it's the same in all public places whether a McDonalds, or a gas station, or a sports stadium. But regardless of how the public treats them, it's a given that they need attention occasionally. From what I've read over the last several weeks as we research train travel, this is very common onboard trains. Paper towel waste containers are never emptied, so they overflow. Soap dispensers are empty. I realize that it's not a fun job, but it's a necessary job. Just curious how/why Amtrak doesn't insist that crew members maintain acceptable levels of cleanliness on trains. If it's only occasional, there sure are a lot of comments out there on train reviews.


You do realize complaints show up more than compliments on any reviews, don't you. How many people do you think will go online and say "Wow, the bathrooms were clean", especially when they expect the bathrooms to be clean. Always read reviews "with a grain of salt".


----------



## JRR (Dec 31, 2017)

Another reason that having your own personal facility is a priority for my wife and I, even if it is only a Viewliner roomette.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## TiBike (Dec 31, 2017)

Amtrak doesn't have effective supervision or a system of accountability. It's not just on the trains. Read the inspector general's report about passenger handling at stations, or look at the recent website upgrade fiasco.

Some employees do a good job, some don't. Not all the bathrooms are a mess. But enough of them are that it's a normal occurrence, not an exception.


----------



## Skyline (Dec 31, 2017)

TiBike said:


> Amtrak doesn't have effective supervision or a system of accountability. It's not just on the trains. Read the inspector general's report about passenger handling at stations, or look at the recent website upgrade fiasco.
> 
> Some employees do a good job, some don't. Not all the bathrooms are a mess. But enough of them are that it's a normal occurrence, not an exception.


Exactly. We cannot paint all staff with the same wide brush, and management skills vary widely within Amtrak.

I will say that among all the tasks that a sleeper or coach attendant must complete, being a janitor and/or plumber isn't at the top of the list. Should it be?


----------



## Blackwolf (Dec 31, 2017)

There is substantial amount of blame to be given toward both bad design and the equipment being beyond its planned lifespan.

Bad design includes the old-style sink faucets (the ones with the push levers that, when depressed even slightly, unleash a fire hose into the sink basin), to waste receptacles that are too small (overflowing quickly) and difficult to use (must physically push waste down past a stiff door, meaning you'll likely come in contact with other waste already inside or the door itself which is visibly dirty; many won't even bother).

The lifespan part is obvious, and applies to pretty much the whole darn Amtrak fleet. Even the Superliner 1 Sleeper rebuilds are getting long in the tooth now. It can't be said strongly enough that Amtrak needs new equipment.

The staff topic is still a large player in this whole mess, and I am very interested in seeing how the labor issues that plague Amtrak from OBS to heavy maintenance is dealt with. Richard Anderson has a great deal of experience with stubborn labor organizations and inefficient operations in his previous endeavors, and making them change to fit his new mold. I see change being imposed sooner rather than later, whether staff likes it or not. Could be bumpy times ahead.


----------



## penguinflies (Dec 31, 2017)

Laurenpl: my experience is sleeper cars to be better maintained than coaches


----------



## laurenpl (Dec 31, 2017)

Thanks, everyone, for your input.


----------



## Philly Amtrak Fan (Dec 31, 2017)

I would like to discuss the quality of bathrooms as well. They can vary. On the TE, one bathrooms per coach car includes this "dressing room". It was to me very convenient I remember one of them ran out of toilet paper so I grabbed toilet paper from one of the "inferior" BR's before using the good BR. I am assuming it's a Superliner feature only. No doubt Superliners are way better than Viewliners except for the lack of Wi-Fi.

Also the faucets on some can be inconsistent in terms of quality. I saw some where you have to push them up to keep the water on, it's annoying. There was one where the water was really really hot.

As for cleaning, in order to service/clean them you have to have them out of service. The only reasonable time would be a service stop and they have other things to do during those stops. They do post signs about keeping the bathrooms clean but that's up to passengers to do so.


----------



## PVD (Dec 31, 2017)

There is a very big difference between trains/cars that have staff that may be responsible, but a large percentage of Amtrak passengers travel on trains with no car attendants, and limited enroute cleaning capability. NER and Empire Service trains can run very crowded with a conductor, A/C and an LSA... very different from the medium and LD train environment. Boston to Va or NYP to NFL is a long trip.


----------



## railiner (Dec 31, 2017)

I think that if they returned to the heritage design of restrooms, it might help the situation....

Many of the long distance heritage chair cars, had a large restroom-lounge....one end of the car for men, the other end for women.

Within these there were usually one or two toilet annexes, two or three mirror/sink position's, and sometimes a sofa or a couple of chairs....

So those washing or shaving were in view of other's, and hence perhaps were somewhat tidier in their habits....

In addition, there was ample floor space for tall trash bags that were easily used, as well as emptied....


----------



## choochoodood (Dec 31, 2017)

On long distance trips I always travel in a roomette, and occasionally in a bedroom when I feel like shelling out the big bucks. I have found that in the sleeper cars, the attendant keeps the restrooms relatively clean. However, when riding in coach, I've never experienced a clean restroom several hours into the trip. I'm sure this is because 4 times the number of passengers are using them.


----------



## Skyline (Dec 31, 2017)

railiner said:


> I think that if they returned to the heritage design of restrooms, it might help the situation....
> 
> Many of the long distance heritage chair cars, had a large restroom-lounge....one end of the car for men, the other end for women.
> 
> ...


At the point Amfleet 1 came onto radar, the designers were using an airline model for rest rooms. That hasn't changed much since. I agree the heritage rest rooms were FAR superior, but the bean counters must have been convinced they took away from revenue space. Not sure if they did, but often perception becomes reality to some people.


----------



## PVD (Dec 31, 2017)

The need to provision for ADA compliance certainly changed things.....


----------



## seat38a (Jan 1, 2018)

Got off Coast Starlight train 11 yesterday. Was in the roomette and I can tell you the bathrooms were only cleaned and stocked before arrival into LAUS. On previous trains, I've seen big tubs of disinfectant wipes in the sleeper bathrooms. Not sure if they were there for the customers to use or for the crew. On previous trains, I've definitely noticed the shower downstairs was cleaned from the smell of chemicals but on train 11, I don't think it was cleaned for a while.

We were in the sleeper attached to the PPC so the upper level bathroom in our car became the bathroom for everyone visiting the PPC from the other sleepers so it turned into a dump quickly and never cleaned, stocked or trash can emptied until couple of hours out of LAUS.


----------



## caravanman (Jan 1, 2018)

As with standards of service elsewhere, you may have a good sleeping car attendant, or you may not, same with coach attendants. My suggestion would be that everyone who is unhappy with the standard of cleanliness should report that to the conductor. It may not be their job, but if several dozen people complain, maybe they might ask staff to do their duty properly.

Yes, passengers can help, I always wipe the sink area after use, but any public rest room needs a proper regular clean. It should be a priority for attendants, rather than an afterthought.

Ed.


----------



## Asher (Jan 1, 2018)

In most cases it only takes one or two to really foul up a bathroom. I've only ran into it once in a sleeper where the attendant had to shut it down until she had time. She was really a fun person to travel with and stopped by our roomette in what appeared to be full combat gear to say " I'm going in". The majority of the time the restroom's are kept clean throughout a trip in a sleeper.


----------



## Everydaymatters (Jan 1, 2018)

choochoodood said:


> On long distance trips I travel in a roomette, and occasionally in a bedroom when I feel like shelling out the big bucks. I have found that in the sleeper cars, the attendant keeps the restrooms relatively clean. However, when riding in coach, I've never experienced a clean restroom several hours into the trip. I'm sure this is because 4 times the number of passengers are using them.


This. There is a huge difference between coach and sleeper restrooms in long distance trains. Fortunately, lately most of my coach trips have been only about 3 hours and the restrooms remain fairly clean. But LD trains are a completely different experience for coach travelers than they are for sleeper pax. For those who believe otherwise, they need to try going from Chi to Was in coach. Or Sea to Chi. Or any trip that involves over 10 hours.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jan 1, 2018)

I've ridden coach on the Cardinal (WIL-CHI) and the LSL (NYP-CHI - annulled @ TOL due to the NS meltdown that year). I don't remember that bathrooms being bad. Sure, they probably weren't Spic & Span clean, but they were useable. Like everything else, everyone's expectations and tolerances are different.


----------



## dlagrua (Jan 1, 2018)

The problem is that on LD trains; in coach you could have 100 or more coach passengers using the public bathroom . Not every passenger takes the train from end to end so those bathrooms are heavily used. If they don't get constant attention, conditions go down hill very quickly.

Happy New Year everyone.


----------



## KmH (Jan 1, 2018)

Superliner coach cars have *5* bathrooms and 74 seats, regardless of where/when coach passengers get on/off the train.

Amfleet II coach cars seat 59 and have 2 bathrooms.


----------



## the_traveler (Jan 1, 2018)

And of those 100 passengers, it only takes 1 to mess it up. And then if you are the next to use it, you see the deplorable conditions of the bathrooms!


----------



## VAtrainfan (Jan 3, 2018)

the_traveler said:


> And of those 100 passengers, it only takes 1 to mess it up. And then if you are the next to use it, you see the deplorable conditions of the bathrooms!


 
A few weeks ago I was on the NER leaving NFK. As it was an originating train, the bathroom was clean when I went to use it before departing. There were less than a dozen people in my car leaving NFK, by the time we got to RVR the bathroom was disgusting.


----------



## Palmland (Jan 3, 2018)

I’ve near had a problem with Palmetto BC Bathrooms. A reason to use BC even though it’s just an Am I coach?


----------



## LookingGlassTie (Jan 3, 2018)

Given that the new Viewliner sleepers won't have bathrooms in the individual rooms, how might that affect bathroom cleanliness in those cars?

Granted, I haven't ridden in a sleeper car before, but I definitely know what coach restrooms can be like...........


----------



## dlagrua (Jan 4, 2018)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Given that the new Viewliner sleepers won't have bathrooms in the individual rooms, how might that affect bathroom cleanliness in those cars?
> 
> Granted, I haven't ridden in a sleeper car before, but I definitely know what coach restrooms can be like...........


There are many mixed opinions on the toilets in the Viewliner roomettes. Some like them while others do not . There are no roomette toilets in Superliner sleepers but from what we have seen the bathrooms in the Superliner sleepers are usually OK. They are not as heavily used as those in coach and the SCA's may be cleaning them on the fly. .


----------



## PVD (Jan 4, 2018)

2 toilets for 12 rooms (including attendant) on the VL2 seems pretty reasonable... The bedrooms will still have their own... I've never had a bathroom problem linger on a Superliner. Sometimes the upstairs single would be a bit shabby early in the morning, (I guess people don't want to do stairs overnight) SCA have always straightened it out before too long.


----------



## KmH (Jan 4, 2018)

LookingGlassTie said:


> Given that the new Viewliner sleepers won't have bathrooms in the individual rooms, how might that affect bathroom cleanliness in those cars?


How many bathrooms will the new Viewliner Sleepers have?


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jan 4, 2018)

KmH said:


> LookingGlassTie said:
> 
> 
> > Given that the new Viewliner sleepers won't have bathrooms in the individual rooms, how might that affect bathroom cleanliness in those cars?
> ...


See the post above yours.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 4, 2018)

Here, let me help.



PVD said:


> 2 toilets for 12 rooms (including attendant) on the VL2 seems pretty reasonable... The bedrooms will still have their own... I've never had a bathroom problem linger on a Superliner. Sometimes the upstairs single would be a bit shabby early in the morning, (I guess people don't want to do stairs overnight) SCA have always straightened it out before too long.


----------



## Larry H. (Jan 4, 2018)

I was watching some wonderful trains from other nations. The Japanese trains showed the rest rooms and you probably could have ate off the floor or sinks it was so spotless, no missed corners, no dirty chrome, no stained sinks. There are some videos on youtube from railroads showing how the get trains ready for the trip from the 40's and 50's. No shortcuts, and no problems. The buck stops with the railroad and Amtrak often forgets it is a passenger carrier. Things that keep people from riding are among other things crummy bathrooms, poor food service, broken banging doors, ect. Someone on the chain is not fixing obvious problems. When I worked I often was in charge of the cleaning personal in a large department store chain. I always stressed looking at areas with an eye for what is not cleaned well, many people will gloss over things an others will go out of their way to clean something spotless. But persons in charge have to hold the employees responsible for maintaining the facility. We had a store manager, a very friendly and kind boss, but he wore white gloves to work and would run them over counters or bases of racks and if he found dust would point it out. Everyone knew what was expected and they in turn did what was expected of them. Its rather obvious that Amtrak doesn't have such a policy.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Jan 4, 2018)

Blackwolf said:


> There is substantial amount of blame to be given toward both bad design and the equipment being beyond its planned lifespan.
> 
> The staff topic is still a large player in this whole mess, and I am very interested in seeing how the labor issues that plague Amtrak from OBS to heavy maintenance is dealt with. Richard Anderson has a great deal of experience with stubborn labor organizations and inefficient operations in his previous endeavors, and making them change to fit his new mold. I see change being imposed sooner rather than later, whether staff likes it or not. Could be bumpy times ahead.


One of the reason this occurs is because that department never recovered from the staff cuts that Gunn instituted. So, as mentioned, it will be interesting to see if Mr. Anderson gives people the "tools" to do the their job...and by that, I mean the proper staffing and the biggest thing...time...to get things up to snuff before they hit the road.



Larry H. said:


> I was watching some wonderful trains from other nations. The Japanese trains showed the rest rooms and you probably could have ate off the floor or sinks it was so spotless, no missed corners, no dirty chrome, no stained sinks. There are some videos on youtube from railroads showing how the get trains ready for the trip from the 40's and 50's. No shortcuts, and no problems. The buck stops with the railroad and Amtrak often forgets it is a passenger carrier. Things that keep people from riding are among other things crummy bathrooms, poor food service, broken banging doors, ect. Someone on the chain is not fixing obvious problems. When I worked I often was in charge of the cleaning personal in a large department store chain. I always stressed looking at areas with an eye for what is not cleaned well, many people will gloss over things an others will go out of their way to clean something spotless. But persons in charge have to hold the employees responsible for maintaining the facility. We had a store manager, a very friendly and kind boss, but he wore white gloves to work and would run them over counters or bases of racks and if he found dust would point it out. Everyone knew what was expected and they in turn did what was expected of them. Its rather obvious that Amtrak doesn't have such a policy.


I loved that video of a bunch of employees turning a train. They had more employees on one car than I can count in three crew bases. As for your comparison to fixed department store versus a moving object, that is on a schedule, it doesn't really hold water. This is particularly true of regional train that may travel 100's of miles and may not get serviced.

Now, there have been some measures added since Mr. Moorman took over. They've expanded en route cleaners to additional lines. They've added cleaners to certain dwell points. However, as Tbike mentioned, if the train is late and the 20-30 dwell doesn't materialize, that will impact the ability of the cleaner(s). I watched a cleaner get to clean, trash and mop a grand total of one bathroom before she was booted off in favor of make up time.

In the future, there is talk of adding hand dryers to the bathrooms to reduce the towel waste that overflows since no one wants to put their hands in that dangerous, Venus Flytrap, hand smashing garbage lid. That will help.

Of course, there are certain things that can not be easily rectified en route. There are certain things that can not be easily rectified at a turn around point.

RIght Blue?


----------



## daybeers (Jan 5, 2018)

> In the future, there is talk of adding hand dryers to the bathrooms to reduce the towel waste that overflows since no one wants to put their hands in that dangerous, Venus Flytrap, hand smashing garbage lid. That will help.


There were hand dryers in one of the refreshed Amfleet I cars I traveled in on the NEC this past fall. They were so much better than the paper towels.


----------



## cirdan (Jan 5, 2018)

penguinflies said:


> Laurenpl: my experience is sleeper cars to be better maintained than coaches


I agree with this.


----------



## me_little_me (Jan 5, 2018)

Larry H. said:


> I was watching some wonderful trains from other nations. The Japanese trains showed the rest rooms and you probably could have ate off the floor or sinks it was so spotless, no missed corners, no dirty chrome, no stained sinks. There are some videos on youtube from railroads showing how the get trains ready for the trip from the 40's and 50's. No shortcuts, and no problems. The buck stops with the railroad and Amtrak often forgets it is a passenger carrier. Things that keep people from riding are among other things crummy bathrooms, poor food service, broken banging doors, ect. Someone on the chain is not fixing obvious problems. When I worked I often was in charge of the cleaning personal in a large department store chain. I always stressed looking at areas with an eye for what is not cleaned well, many people will gloss over things an others will go out of their way to clean something spotless. But persons in charge have to hold the employees responsible for maintaining the facility. We had a store manager, a very friendly and kind boss, but he wore white gloves to work and would run them over counters or bases of racks and if he found dust would point it out. Everyone knew what was expected and they in turn did what was expected of them. Its rather obvious that Amtrak doesn't have such a policy.


If memory serves me right, the Amtrak Standards Manual stated in Revision 8 and before that the attendants should clean them every 30 minutes. Someone please correct me on this.

It's not a Policy problem. It is an enforcement problem. Staff doesn't want to clean up after patrons (unlike the low paid staff in fast food chains and chain gas stations who have no choice). With all the toilets on a train, one would hope that when the Viewliner bag dorms arrive or now on the Superliners, that Amtrak could hire one more person per train to just clean bathrooms during the day.

Some comments were made about roomettes. If I were in one and the toilets down the hall or downstairs were not cleaned when I requested it (assuming they needed cleaning) there would be no tip for the attendant but there would be a complaint to the conductor. The only problem I ever had was once upon boarding the train in a bedroom only to immediately find the toilet had been used but had left remains in it. We asked the SCA to clean it. She was not happy about it but did clean it. Could have been that somebody from another room used it or she just forgot to check it after the last person departed. Based on this and subsequent issues, she got a tip at the bottom of my tipping scale.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Jan 5, 2018)

Speaking of messy transportation bathrooms.

www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/01/05/united-airlines-flight-diverted-to-alaska-after-passenger-smear-feces-everywhere.html

TR7, wonder if this is the same guy you were telling me about.


----------



## seat38a (Jan 5, 2018)

me_little_me said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > I was watching some wonderful trains from other nations. The Japanese trains showed the rest rooms and you probably could have ate off the floor or sinks it was so spotless, no missed corners, no dirty chrome, no stained sinks. There are some videos on youtube from railroads showing how the get trains ready for the trip from the 40's and 50's. No shortcuts, and no problems. The buck stops with the railroad and Amtrak often forgets it is a passenger carrier. Things that keep people from riding are among other things crummy bathrooms, poor food service, broken banging doors, ect. Someone on the chain is not fixing obvious problems. When I worked I often was in charge of the cleaning personal in a large department store chain. I always stressed looking at areas with an eye for what is not cleaned well, many people will gloss over things an others will go out of their way to clean something spotless. But persons in charge have to hold the employees responsible for maintaining the facility. We had a store manager, a very friendly and kind boss, but he wore white gloves to work and would run them over counters or bases of racks and if he found dust would point it out. Everyone knew what was expected and they in turn did what was expected of them. Its rather obvious that Amtrak doesn't have such a policy.
> ...


So Amtrak should hire one more person to NOT do their job on the train?


----------



## Palmland (Jan 6, 2018)

While I’m sure there are space constraints, it would be nice if the new sleepers had a urinal as well as a toilet. Moving targets are not the best sanitary solution.


----------



## willem (Jan 6, 2018)

Sit down? Make it simpler and nicer for everyone?


----------

