# Old VIA Fares



## Anderson (Jun 22, 2011)

I did an analysis on this some months ago along the old ACL/SAL routes vs. the Silvers today, but does anyone have access to a set of VIA (or CP/CN) fares from 30-50 years ago (the 60s or the 70s)? I'm _guessing _that the fares, in real terms, are mostly unchanged...but I'd like to have the data to do a comparison on this.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 22, 2011)

Anderson said:


> ......does anyone have access to a set of VIA (or CP/CN) fares from 30-50 years ago (the 60s or the 70s)? I'm _guessing _that the fares, in real terms, are mostly unchanged...but I'd like to have the data to do a comparison on this.


Here's CN & CP Fares for October 29, 1967 and VIA's for June 1978.


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## Anderson (Jun 23, 2011)

Alright, I feel like a fool for asking...what's a "dayniter" or "Tempoclub"?

Edit: Also, just wondering...would the fare sheets be for the Super Continental/Canadian? I'm presuming so, but I also figure that it is better to ask.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 23, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Alright, I feel like a fool for asking...what's a "dayniter" or "Tempoclub"? Also, just wondering...would the fare sheets be for the Super Continental/Canadian? I'm presuming so, but I also figure that it is better to ask.


The DayNiters were an upgraded coach accommodation with leg-rests and tray-tables, and quiet with carpeted floors, walls and ceilings. They were intended for overnight service on the western transcontinentals and eastern trains to Halifax and Sydney. When operating in daytime service, they were called “Club 52” for the number of seat compared to a standard CN coach with 78 seats (tile floors and no leg rests)

A Tempo Club was a car with 2 & 1 seating similar to Amtrak Business Class. The Tempo equipment was built for CN by Hawker Siddeley in 1968 for service in southwestern Ontario. (Pictures here: photo #4 & #5 (first two photos here are the Turbo......but that's another story!)

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/32813-turbos-tempos-rapidos-expedos/page__p__233736__hl__tempo__fromsearch__1#entry233736

The Tempos saw joint VIA/Amtrak service on the International to Chicago and eventually went to the Colorado Ski Train. They’ve now come full-circle back to CN for service on the Agawa Canyon Train.

Yes, the fares are for the Super Continental and Canadian. The Toronto/Montreal fare shown in the CN table would be for the Super Continental or Panorama running via Edmonton/Jasper (today’s VIA Canadian route) and the CP table would be for the Canadian running via Calgary/Banff. The VIA fare table would be for either train via either route.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 24, 2011)

Note the Red, White & Blue fares in the CN table.....this was “Yield Management” probably long before the term was coined.

Red Fares were valid in the off-peak season mid-week and White Fares, off-peak weekends. Blue Fares were on holidays.

During the summer there were no Red Fares but White mid-week and Blue on weekends.

The system worked well for CN and brought passengers back to the trains in droves through the mid '60s. They lasted until the new VIA "Fare For All" plan was introduced in 1978 (bottom table)


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## The Davy Crockett (Jun 24, 2011)

NS VIA Fan said:


> They lasted until the new VIA "Fare For All" plan was introduced in 1978 (bottom table)


Gotta love the drawings on the "Fare for All" table. They sure scream 1970s! Just a wee bit different than the fare tables from eleven years earlier...


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## Anderson (Jun 25, 2011)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Note the Red, White & Blue fares in the CN table.....this was "Yield Management" probably long before the term was coined.
> 
> Red Fares were valid in the off-peak season mid-week and White Fares, off-peak weekends. Blue Fares were on holidays.
> 
> ...


Would I be right in guessing that this is part of why Canada was able to get away with just subsidizing the railroad operations (I think it was at 80% of losses or something like that) for as long as they did? Also...don't I recall reading in _The Men Who Loved Trains_ that they actually smacked back into a capacity wall for a while as a result?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jun 26, 2011)

CN was acquiring as much equipment as they could in the mid ’60s to meet the demand created by the new fare scheme and there was almost an endless supply from the US. Some of the cars I remember in particular were the Milwaukee Road Super Domes and Skytops, the Reading Crusader and numerous NYC, B&M, FEC and NKP sleepers. There were also brand-new Tempos and Turbos.

The big year was Canada’s Centennial in 1967 when everyone was travelling across the country or to Expo ’67 in Montreal......and then it started to slide. There were cut backs especially to the Transcons and Maritime trains around 1970......but also improvements to the Corridor where the market now appeared to be. Things continued sliding until the formation of VIA. First as the passenger marketing department at CN in 1976 then as a standalone Crown Corporation a couple of years later.


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