# ummm.....toilets on long-distance train cars



## one-trip-only (Jan 29, 2013)

No biggie, but I'm curious. I've researched our upcoming trip to death, but cannot figure this one out, in spite of looking at all of the diagrams and videos and virtual-walkthroughs.....

SWC, for example, superliner trainset: do the diner (upper level) and/or the SSL (or snackbar, lower level) have bathroom facilities? Or do you plan to schlep to your (whatever your passenger car may be) for needing to use the facilities?


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## Amtrak Cajun (Jan 29, 2013)

You typically have to go to either your coach car/sleeping car to use the restroom due to sanitary reasons, food and whatnot.

On Superliners, the restrooms are located on the lower level of the car.


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## Blackwolf (Jan 29, 2013)

All cars have a restroom. That not withstanding:


*The Diner*: Restoom is for employees only. It is located in the back of the kitchen, on the lower level, and is not available for passenger use in any circumstance.
*The Sightseeer Lounge*: Crew-dependent, the single restroom is located downstairs on the lower level, on the side of the car opposite the snack bar. It is designed for public use, but some Lead Service Attendants in the SSL (this is a minority, and an annoyance as there is no standard rule on the Amtrak system in my experience) block it off from use because they do not want to clean it.
*Coach cars*: There are a total of 5 restrooms available on the lower level for customer use. Three standard unisex restrooms, one handicapped unisex restroom, and one that is attached to a "powder room/changing room" annex at the end of the lower level hallway that is originally intended for female use only (though, as a guy, I've used it in the past without trouble.)
*Sleeper cars*: Three unisex restrooms on the lower level, one unisex restroom on the upper level mid-car, and for those traveling in bedroom accommodations there are your own en-suite private facilities located in your room.
And that is a list of all the places you can "do your business" on Amtrak's long distance Superliner-equipped trains.


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## D.P. Roberts (Jan 29, 2013)

As you can see in the diagram, the Superliner Sightseer Lounge (SSL) does have an accessible restroom on the lower level. The dining car doesn't.


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## roadman3313 (Jan 29, 2013)

With that said, as Blackwolf mentioned... It is a safe bet to assume that you must be in a coach/sleeper car to use a restroom in that car. If the lower level of the SSL has the restroom open and available to use that would be an added "bonus." But yes, the one in the SSL is supposed to be available for the use of the passengers.


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## MiRider (Jan 29, 2013)

D.P. Roberts said:


> As you can see in the diagram, the Superliner Sightseer Lounge (SSL) does have an accessible restroom on the lower level. The dining car doesn't.



Whoever designed and/or signed off on an accessible toilet on the lower level that can only be accessed by navigating a set of winding, narrow stairs is a genius!

Or did they just mean accessible as in available and not accessible as in design?


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## Blackwolf (Jan 29, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> D.P. Roberts said:
> 
> 
> > As you can see in the diagram, the Superliner Sightseer Lounge (SSL) does have an accessible restroom on the lower level. The dining car doesn't.
> ...


I do believe that this is a prime example of the overbearing nature of our beloved ADA laws. If you think about it, every passenger car that has restroom facilities available to the public has at least one which is ADA compliant. The diner is excluded because no restrooms are available except to employees. Never mind the true "access" by way of those narrow stairs to get from the upper level, Amtrak is complaint because the sole public restroom in the SSL is "Accessible!"


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## Texan Eagle (Jan 29, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> D.P. Roberts said:
> 
> 
> > As you can see in the diagram, the Superliner Sightseer Lounge (SSL) does have an accessible restroom on the lower level. The dining car doesn't.
> ...


Umm are you guys forgetting there are seats and sleeper rooms on the lower level in Superliners? A person who requires access to an accessible restroom would probably be in a wheelchair, and as such, not expected to be on the upper level, so the question of negotiating narrow winding stairs does not arise. The location of accessible toilet on Superliner cars is perfect for the purpose it serves.


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## MiRider (Jan 30, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > D.P. Roberts said:
> ...


Sorry, I wasn't clear... I was commenting on the sole 'accessible' toilet on the lower level of the SSL which is only accessible from the upper level via the stairs, no rooms or seats on the lower level of that car.


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## roadman3313 (Jan 30, 2013)

Well... let me put it this way... could the LSA (or Cafe car attendant) be mobility impared? I mean I'd assume that you could have a reasonable accomodation for that job as there are many people I know with mobility imparements that can lift a lot of weight and reasonably do the functions in that car. Granted taking a break may be more difficult as you can't just get up and go, but many jobs, including transportation jobs are now done by those who would be considered to be mobility impared or may require an accessible restroom.

I know that may sound far fetched but I assume Amtrak is an Equal Opportunity Employer and this could be possible.


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > JoanieB said:
> ...


 A person with a wheel chair who under stands how things work, could request that at a stop they be allowed to transfer from coach or a sleeper to the SSL until the next stop where they would transfer back to their assigned car. Hence the need for the accessible restroom.

In practice this doesn't happen too often, since one could be stuck in the lounge car for hours in some instances before the train reached the next stop. But the idea is that this is an option, and it is an option that under ADA rules must be offered and available.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 30, 2013)

There should be no problem finding the toilets. Most of them are on the lower level and you will notice them when you board. There is one restroom in the middle of the upper deck of Sleepers.


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## one-trip-only (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks y'all. I figured that the SSL, at least, would have a restroom, but couldn't find anything to confirm this.


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## OBS (Jan 30, 2013)

D.P. Roberts said:


> As you can see in the diagram, the Superliner Sightseer Lounge (SSL) does have an accessible restroom on the lower level. The dining car doesn't.


Actually, only the Superliner II lounges have the "accessible" restrooms. The SSL I's have the tiny unisex restroom.


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## June the Coach Rider (Jan 30, 2013)

People that need the "accessible" restroom, do not have to be in wheelchairs, there are disabled people, like myself that are mobility impaired that can walk, we can do stairs, it is the up and down from the seating position that requires the accessibility of the restroom. So the steriotype of "people needing the accessible restroom probably are in a wheelchair" is not even close.


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## PerRock (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the reasoning behind having the restrooms on the lower level, is that if you can climb the stairs to get to the upper level in your own car; you can probably descend the stairs in the cafe to use it's bathroom. With the exception of the Sleeping cars, ALL Superliner cars have their only restrooms on the Lower Level.

You can see them here, Toilets are marked. I haven't uploaded the Diner Lower Floor plan yet (not sure why, just haven't.)

http://amtraktrainz.com/cars.html

peter


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## cirdan (Jan 30, 2013)

AlanB said:


> A person with a wheel chair who under stands how things work, could request that at a stop they be allowed to transfer from coach or a sleeper to the SSL until the next stop where they would transfer back to their assigned car. Hence the need for the accessible restroom.
> 
> In practice this doesn't happen too often, since one could be stuck in the lounge car for hours in some instances before the train reached the next stop. But the idea is that this is an option, and it is an option that under ADA rules must be offered and available.


Isn't it more likely to be that the Superliner is basically one design but built in different variants, and it was easier to fit the same bathrooms on other Superliner cars than specially design another one that wasn't accessible (think of the costs of design work, of different parts etc).


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## NETrainfan (Jan 30, 2013)

Are some of the downstairs lounge accessible bathrooms ever really blocked off? Doesn't make sense.


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## cirdan (Jan 30, 2013)

NETrainfan said:


> Are some of the downstairs lounge accessible bathrooms ever really blocked off? Doesn't make sense.


Sometimes on long trips the retention tanks may be full or there may not be anough water for flushing or washing hands, so to avoid passengers entering an uncomfortable situation, it may be the best thing under the circumstances to lock the affected restromms as long as there are still alternative restrooms available elsewhere on the train.

It may also be that if attendants discover that a restroom is dirty and needs to be cleaned, but they don't immediately have time or other things have higher priority, that they temporarily lock that restroom until they have time to attend to it. Again this is for the passenger's comfort as they don't want to find a dirty restroom.


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## NETrainfan (Jan 30, 2013)

So the accessibles in the lower snack bar are usually available?

And- can everyone use these as in coach?


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## PerRock (Jan 30, 2013)

The bathroom in the snack car when open can be used by anyone. There is only one however.

The service attendants have been known to lock them however due to many different reasons, ranging from pure laziness to it would be a biohazard (ok not really, but it feels that way) to use it.

If you want to use the bathroom there, it's all going to depend on the staff and where in the trains trip you are.

peter


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 30, 2013)

NETrainfan said:


> So the accessibles in the lower snack bar are usually available?
> And- can everyone use these as in coach?


I'm sure it's available to everyone since everyone's allowed to use the SSL.

I used the SSL bathroom on the CL.


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## greatcats (Jan 30, 2013)

*To my observations, that restroom in the lounge car is available perhaps half of the time, but it is available to everyone. I recall using it on the Sunset recently.*


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## zephyr17 (Jan 30, 2013)

My general experience is the restroom in the SSL is closed off more often than it is open. It does depend on the LSA. Personally, I usually assume it isn't open and go back to by car when I need to use the facilities.


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2013)

June said:


> People that need the "accessible" restroom, do not have to be in wheelchairs, there are disabled people, like myself that are mobility impaired that can walk, we can do stairs, it is the up and down from the seating position that requires the accessibility of the restroom. So the steriotype of "people needing the accessible restroom probably are in a wheelchair" is not even close.


June,

You are quite correct and I wasn't trying to stereotype anything, just provide an example of why it was done. Nonetheless, my apologies.


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2013)

cirdan said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > A person with a wheel chair who under stands how things work, could request that at a stop they be allowed to transfer from coach or a sleeper to the SSL until the next stop where they would transfer back to their assigned car. Hence the need for the accessible restroom.
> ...


Absolutely not. As noted by OBS, the Superliner I's don't have an accessible restroom. Additionally the Superliner sleepers don't have an accessible bathroom, only an accessible sleeping compartment that has an accessible toilet within the room.


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## June the Coach Rider (Jan 30, 2013)

Texan Eagle said:


> JoanieB said:
> 
> 
> > D.P. Roberts said:
> ...





AlanB said:


> June said:
> 
> 
> > People that need the "accessible" restroom, do not have to be in wheelchairs, there are disabled people, like myself that are mobility impaired that can walk, we can do stairs, it is the up and down from the seating position that requires the accessibility of the restroom. So the steriotype of "people needing the accessible restroom probably are in a wheelchair" is not even close.
> ...


Alan, I am sorry if you thought I was referencing you, I should have quoted in the first post what I was refering to. I have quoted it here. I appreciate the apology though. I understand that some people assume that just because you have no outward signs of a mobility disability that you are not.


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## AlanB (Jan 30, 2013)

NETrainfan said:


> Are some of the downstairs lounge accessible bathrooms ever really blocked off? Doesn't make sense.


Yes, many times the LSA working the cafe car will lock it and pretend that it's out of order, just so they don't have to clean it.


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## MiRider (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm going to assume that June is referencing my post, I don't feel like quoting all of that again.

I'm far from unsympathetic, being that I have a daughter who is an above the knee amputee who is still learning how to get around without falling.

You'd never know it if you saw her so I'm well aware of unseen disabilites

In all of my train trips, I've only seen that SSL restroom open twice and one of those times, it would have been convenient to use it but it was jammed full of stuff and a garbage box.

I sure wouldn't tell my daughter to make her way down there just to find it closed or full of junk.

They also tend to put one of those big cardboard garbage boxes in the regular accessible bathrooms for some reason but you can still move around it.

Those stairs are bad whether you have mobility issues or not.

Better to use the restrooms in your car where you can be assured that there will be one available, that way your stair adventure won't be in vain.

Potties for everyone!


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## one-trip-only (Jan 30, 2013)

Re: a restroom on the SSL: you know, I'm thinking that yeah, I'm a newbie, but.....this is the kind of thing that should be basic and available and advertised as such (barring unforeseen mechanical breakdowns, which can happen in any mode of travel I realize). But the way y'all are talking, this particular "amenity" is frequently unavailable due to.....staff laziness?

I know I'm a spoiled American, but still.....one useable toilet, in a long-distance car capable of servicing what? Fifty or more customers? And I'm paying big bucks (for me) for sleeper-car "first-class" accomodations, and the toilet in the SSL may or may not be available? (I realize I have other toilet options, walking to my room/car). Still.....

It seems I am both ahead of the curve (using Amtrak) and behind it (Amtrak needs to provide the amenities appropriate to what they're charging). I haven't been on here (researching Amtrak) long enough to understand the reasoning.....

But I worked for the USPS for 32 years, so I guess I need to extrapolate the ridiculous staffing and reasoning I saw all those years to the Amtrak model of business.

It's Congress, isn't it? I understand now, thinking about how the gov't messes with my former line of work.

But still - bathrooms - they should be basic. It should be a given that a toilet should be available to patrons on any long-distance SSL car (I think, anyway.....)


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## Ryan (Jan 30, 2013)

There are rarely that many people in that particular car, and it's no big deal at all to walk the couple dozen feet into the next car and use the restrooms there.

It really isn't the big deal that you're making it out to be...


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## jsreeves (Jan 30, 2013)

Ryan said:


> There are rarely that many people in that particular car, and it's no big deal at all to walk the couple dozen feet into the next car and use the restrooms there.
> It really isn't the big deal that you're making it out to be...


Kind of ironic seeing as he started his initial post with the words "No biggie".


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 30, 2013)

It's not that big of a problem. With the food bar beside, it's not all bad.


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## rrdude (Feb 1, 2013)

cirdan said:


> NETrainfan said:
> 
> 
> > Are some of the downstairs lounge accessible bathrooms ever really blocked off? Doesn't make sense.
> ...


Like I did on the Silver Star coming north a few weeks ago,............ YUCK! I was gonna post photo, but it was even too gross for me to look at again.


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