# The Last Hurrah....



## Meat Puppet (Jan 23, 2016)

120,000 points spent in one phone call $9328 in Railfare.

All 20,000 point roomettes.

CIN TO SEA (Card-CZ-CS)

WPT-GBB (EB-CS-CZ)

CHI-ELP (EB-CS-SL)

SEA-NOL (CS-CZ-CONO)

SAS-SEA (TE-CZ-CS)

HMD-SEA (CONO-SC-CS)

Hope to see many of you in 2016 who are doing their supertrips.

Thanks to those who helped me master agr over the past 6 years. You know who you are.


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## tomfuller (Jan 31, 2016)

Not familiar with a SC route.How are you getting between the widely scattered start points?

I can tell you that the Enterprise office is within walking distance of the station in Galesburg.

Last March I used 2 20K point roomettes from CMO to GBB (via SAC) and a week later from GBB back to CMO (via LAX).

I earned AGR points on the car rental from Galesburg.

How do you get to Wolf Point without riding the Empire Builder?


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## Anderson (Jan 31, 2016)

My guess is that there will be some incidental paid legs buried in there.


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## PaulM (Feb 4, 2016)

You put mine to shame. Ft Madison-CHI-WAS-Hollywood and Deland-NYP-CHI-DEN. All bedrooms for 80K points.

I used to laugh when AU'ers put down roomettes, sort of like I might put down overnight coach. But after 6 BR's, it will be hard to go back to slumming in roomettes.


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## Meat Puppet (Feb 5, 2016)

tomfuller said:


> Not familiar with a SC route.How are you getting between the widely scattered start points?
> 
> I can tell you that the Enterprise office is within walking distance of the station in Galesburg.
> 
> ...


Buying a few coach tickets between major stations and obscure ones.

I have a bunch of national free one ways to burn before the end of the year.

To CIN will be one way car rental.

To Wolf Point will be fly to MSP. Car rental from MSP to Grand Forks, ND. Coach ticket GFK to WPT.

Departing in ELP will be car rental to a more affordable airport to fly out of. Maybe ABQ or PHX.

To HMD will be coach ticket from NOL.

All of the SEA destinations might be PDX destination depending on airfare.

Thanks for the GBB enterprise tip.


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## me_little_me (Feb 7, 2016)

Meat Puppet said:


> .Departing in ELP will be car rental to a more affordable airport to fly out of. Maybe ABQ or PHX.


I looked into one-way rentals from ELP to ABQ. Not cheap. May cost more than the savings on the airline ticket.

Train to ELP is cheaper in either points or $$$ than train to ABQ for me both under old program as well as new so I looked into rental car. On one trip, rather than one-way rental and return from my preferred ABQ, we rented the car, drove up, then eventually drove back to pick up the train. Wasn't totally wasteful as it gave us an opportunity to visit old haunts in Las Cruces, Deming, Hatch and TorC on the way up and Tularosa and Alamogordo on the way home as well as to visit eastern NM.

Hertz has an office a few freeway exits from the station and they will pick you up for free. Call before your arrival as they may not be able to get there immediately.


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## benale (Feb 7, 2016)

Should be a great trip. My "last hurrah" was booked before AGR 2.0. Flying from BWI to LA, then boarding The Sunset Limited, The Cardinal and The Meteor.. First night in Coach,then using a two zone(20,000 points)from El Paso to Fort Lauderdale, spending a few days visiting my mom,then Spirit($34.50)back to BWI. Five nights,five days on the train. That same trip under the new system would be 50,000 points and then some. This will probably be my last big trip for some time. Without the 100 point(200 during Double Days)minimum to get those points quickly,it's going to be tough.


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## Meat Puppet (Feb 7, 2016)

me_little_me said:


> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> > .Departing in ELP will be car rental to a more affordable airport to fly out of. Maybe ABQ or PHX.
> ...


With national free days you can use them on one ways and only have to pay the tax. Its usually about $5. Good to know about hertz though in case I want to rent locally for a day or two.


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## tomfuller (Feb 8, 2016)

I think I remember a Greyhound bus between Albuquerque and El Paso many years ago. I spent a night in a hostel in Truth or Consequences. They had good hot spring tubs. The Rio Grande flowed right by the hostel.


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## Anderson (Feb 8, 2016)

tomfuller said:


> I think I remember a Greyhound bus between Albuquerque and El Paso many years ago. I spent a night in a hostel in Truth or Consequences. They had good hot spring tubs. The Rio Grande flowed right by the hostel.


I read that as "a night in a Truth or Consequences hostel"...which sounds like some sort of hotel chain out of a horror movie


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## MadManMoon (Feb 10, 2016)

I booked three "last hurrahs" before the Big Switch, and I post this from the Chicago Metropolitan Lounge after Leg 1 of Last Hurrah 1.

This trip: one way WAS-SFP via Capitol Limited, California Zephyr, and Thruway Bus, then a quick United flight home (wife has limited vacation time).

Last Hurrah 2: Round trip from WAS to WFH on the Cardinal and Empire Builder (Glacier National Park for our 12th wedding anniversary) in July-August

Last Hurrah 3: Solo cross-country jaunt from WAS to SEA and back on the Cardinal, Southwest Chief, Coast Starlight, then Coast Starlight, California Zephyr, and Cardinal. Ten days, eight nights on the train, and the cost of this trip tripled in value under the new system.

After this, I have only 43,000 points left. We'll see how they'll be spent.

Feedback so far? BRING BACK THE RAILROAD FRENCH TOAST. Breakfast will never be the same.


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## tomfuller (Feb 10, 2016)

MadManMoon Re: Last Hurrah 2 - My wife and I spent our 30th anniversary at the Meadow Lake Resort in Columbia Falls, MT. We were picked up by their van from the WFH station.

We enjoyed the in condo hot tub. We got a car delivered from the Kalispell airport since it was off season. I think you will be able to rent a car from the WFH station or close to it


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## Shortline (Feb 10, 2016)

I made my last Hurrah too....turned my remaining points in for $2,500 in Lowes gift cards. Horrible redemption rate? Probably. But with the way things are headed, felt I could get more use from them this way. I travel enough for work, occasionally by rail, that I can still get my fix a few times a year, but focus on air miles instead of Amtrak points. We have other vacation priorities, that rail just doesn't work well with.


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## MadManMoon (Feb 12, 2016)

tomfuller said:


> MadManMoon Re: Last Hurrah 2 - My wife and I spent our 30th anniversary at the Meadow Lake Resort in Columbia Falls, MT. We were picked up by their van from the WFH station.
> 
> We enjoyed the in condo hot tub. We got a car delivered from the Kalispell airport since it was off season. I think you will be able to rent a car from the WFH station or close to it


We stayed at Meadow Lake on our first trip to Glacier back in 2005 (our first Amtrak sleeping car adventure, to boot!). We rented a car from Hertz, but we didn't know any better, so we got off at West Glacier. Someone from Hertz was waiting for us, and let us know that Whitefish might be a better option next time. We've been back twice since, always to Whitefish. I just wish Hertz would give unlimited miles! It's so hard to stay under the limit, especially since we want to drive Going to the Sun Road as many times as we can!

This time we're staying at the Grouse Mountain Lodge in Whitefish, and picking up our Hertz at WFH as usual. I can't wait!


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## Meat Puppet (Feb 13, 2016)

MadManMoon said:


> tomfuller said:
> 
> 
> > MadManMoon Re: Last Hurrah 2 - My wife and I spent our 30th anniversary at the Meadow Lake Resort in Columbia Falls, MT. We were picked up by their van from the WFH station.
> ...


If you take the 10 mile cab ride to the glacier airport you can rent an unlimited miles car from avis for about half of the price of the hertz at amtrak station.

Actually Grouse Mountain has a free airport shuttle so they could take you to the airport, so you would have to cab from amtrak to the hotel.


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## MadManMoon (Feb 15, 2016)

Thanks for the excellent advice! We'll do that!


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## rtabern (Feb 16, 2016)

We will be doing our "Last Hurrah" in about 10 weeks from now.

GLN-CHI on the Hiawatha

CHI-WAS on the Capitol Limited

WAS-MIA on the Silver Meteor

(Fly MIA-NOL on Southwest Airlines)

NOL-CHI on the City of New Orleans

CHI-LAX on the Southwest Chief

LAX-Salem, OR on the Coast Starlight

Salem, OR-LAX on the Coast Starlight

(Fly LAX-MDW on Southwest Airlines)

It cost somewhere around 110K points. But under the new system it would have been like 230K points. My remaining AGR points will be transferred to Choice Hotels (and then onto Southwest Airlines) between now and Feb. 2017.

The extreme costs of bedrooms (the only way we like to go overnight) and earning the Southwest Airlines Companion Pass will mean very few, if any, more Amtrak trips. We will be doing more flying trips to national parks and places we have always wanted to go (Virgin Islands) or go back to (Hawaii).

We might still do a trip on the Hoosier State or something every now and then to get our train-fix on.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 16, 2016)

Don't forget VIA Rob! Y'all are close enough to visit Canada and ride their Trains when ya'll need a "train fix!"


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## rtabern (Feb 17, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Don't forget VIA Rob! Y'all are close enough to visit Canada and ride their Trains when ya'll need a "train fix!"


True... will likely be doing more VIA trips. I mean with the weak dollar --- a 2 night bedroom on Amtrak costs about as much as a 4 night bedroom on VIA. And, the service is 100x better.

I did read on another forum that VIA might be closing the Park Cars off at certain periods throughout the day to regular sleeping car passengers so that prestige class passengers can have exclusive access to them. That does not sit well with me either... even though I have no confirmation that this more than a forum rumor for now.

For now, we are enjoying our Southwest Airlines Companion Pass quick weekend trips instead of traveling by Amtrak. So far this year, we have done Atlanta (twice), Nashville, and Dallas. We will be doing Greenville/Spartanburg, SC, Charlotte, and Charleston in March... and Jacksonville, FL in early April.


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## jis (Feb 18, 2016)

Exaggerating are we?


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## rtabern (Feb 18, 2016)

jis said:


> Exaggerating are we?


Are you referring to me and what I said about the prices?

Here is my math... correct me if I am wrong. VIA is simply hands down the better deal when it comes to a long-distance train ride.

A "Cabin For Two" on the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver (4 nights) with a departure date of 11/1/16 (randomly picked) is $3,695.89CDN for two people. Using today's exchange rate of 0.73 -- that equals $2,697.99USD. You get FOUR NIGHTS on the train with that trip... so your per night cost for the Canadian is $674.49.

A "Bedroom" on the California Zephyr from Chicago to Emeryville (2 nights) with a random departure date of 11/4/16 (randomly picked in the same week) is $1,472.00USD for two people. You get TWO NIGHTS on the train with that trip... so your per night cost for the California Zephyr is $736.00USD.

Even if the quality of the train equipment and service was equal... the Canadian is a better deal per night!

AND... It's hardly an exaggeration that SOMETIMES a 2 night ride on Amtrak can cost as much as 4 night ride on VIA.

Often times in November, you can get a ride on the Canadian upto 50% off. If you take the regular price above $3,695.89CDN --- and apply a 50% discount --- that comes out to $1,847.94CDN. Then, run that through today's current exchange rate of 0.73 --- and that 4 nights in a "Bedroom for Two" on VIA with the sale price comes out to $1,349.00USD.

THAT price would be cheaper than the $1,472 Bedroom on the Zephyr --- would it not????

Again, if my math shows an error -- then please point it out.

Even if the train equipment and level of service was equal -- often times VIA is now the better deal -- especially cost per night spent on the train. And I don't think there is one person out there who could really say they would prefer a long distance ride on VIA in sleeper class over a long distance ride in Amtrak in sleeper class.

I do like Amtrak and have been a staunch defender of it on this forum for over 10 years -- and have done atleast one long-distance Amtrak trip for the past 36 years in a row. But, I am also not one to keep my mouth shut. I am very disappointed with what happened with AGR 2.0. I understand some changes had to be made and previous earning and redemption was maybe a tad too generous and too much in some passengers favors. However, I also don't think that some route pairs should have received over an 80% cut in points earned. (EX: Hiawatha from Chicago to Glenview --- 100 points under AGR1.0 --- to just 18 points under AGR2.0) But, like I said -- Amtrak had to do what was "best" for it -- and then we'll do what is "best" for us too -- which is ride less. Us riding Amtrak about 200x per year less than before probably won't even be noticed and management probably won't even car... so be it...


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## jis (Feb 18, 2016)

Have you tried random cherry picking the other way? I am just curious whether your current pissed off bias is getting reflected or is it always the case?

And why on earth would someone think of spending four nights in a train instead of two in a train and two in a hotel specially for $600+ per night, beats me. But that is a different matter


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## jebr (Feb 18, 2016)

As I'm sure is not a surprise, VIA is not always cheaper than Amtrak. 

I just pulled Memorial Day weekend (5/28; since VIA decides to not be a true transportation option and only runs the Canadian 2-3 days/week, I can't really choose a date here.) I compared Grand Forks - Seattle on Amtrak's Empire Builder vs. Winnipeg - Vancouver on VIA's Canadian. A Superliner Bedroom on the Builder is $804, where the Cabin for 2 on VIA is CAD$2492.70, which comes to $1810.76 (USD.)

I do enjoy VIA Rail and wish I could afford to ride it more (same with Amtrak, to be honest.) But to tout that VIA is obviously always a better value, especially after considering that one must first get to the origination point anyways (which for most people in the US is further away and more expensive to get to than Amtrak) is a bit of a fool's errand in my opinion. Amtrak has more frequent service, can be cheaper even on "high-demand" days, and frankly is more likely to be at least a useful part of the journey to get somewhere for most Americans. If you're just railfanning, at what point do you just start paying for a berth or room on a charter excursion instead?

I will say this: as a taxpayer, I am much happier supporting an Amtrak-like service, warts and all, than a VIA-like service.


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## rtabern (Feb 19, 2016)

jebr said:


> As I'm sure is not a surprise, VIA is not always cheaper than Amtrak.
> 
> I just pulled Memorial Day weekend (5/28; since VIA decides to not be a true transportation option and only runs the Canadian 2-3 days/week, I can't really choose a date here.) I compared Grand Forks - Seattle on Amtrak's Empire Builder vs. Winnipeg - Vancouver on VIA's Canadian. A Superliner Bedroom on the Builder is $804, where the Cabin for 2 on VIA is CAD$2492.70, which comes to $1810.76 (USD.)
> 
> ...


I would argue... in your example given... it seems like VIA and Amtrak are just about "a wash"... especially if you are looking at the value one is getting from accommodations and meals.

Here is my math to back up by feelings:

You said Amtrak from Grand Forks to Seattle is $804.00. You get only one real night of accommodations on the train for that --- so the value is $804 per night on Amtrak.

You said VIA from Winnepeg to Grand Forks is $1810.76/USD. You get two nights of accommodations on the train for that -- so the value is $905 per night on VIA.

The difference is $101.00 in Amtrak's favor there per night.

But, wait --- You'd get 2 or 3 extra meals on VIA from Winnepeg to Vancouver versus Amtrak from Grand Forks to Seattle --- so that pretty much reduces that $101 advantage on Amtrak's side to maybe just $40 or $50 only.

For $40 or $50 difference -- I'd take the 4 dome cars and much nicer meal service with real China. Just sayin'!!!!


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## rtabern (Feb 19, 2016)

jis said:


> Have you tried random cherry picking the other way? I am just curious whether your current pissed off bias is getting reflected or is it always the case?
> 
> And why on earth would someone think spending for nights in a train instead of two in a train and two in a hotel specially for $600+ per night, beats me. But that is a different matter


I didn't feel like I was "cherry picking" with my example to make a point against Amtrak -- if I did, I would have purposely picked the highest possible fare bucket from CHI-EMY in my example. I did not do that. I used a bedroom fare of $1,472.00 from CHI to EMY in my example which is very "middle of the road". The high bucket is $1629.00. But, maybe I should have used that high fare bucket --- as if you look at the entire month of September 2016 now -- there is only one date out of 30 where the fare for a bedroom from CHI to EMY isn't jacked up to the highest bucket now or completely sold out. This is like 7 months out too and not during peak travel really either...  I might not be thrilled with AGR 2.0, but I am still objective.


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## C855B (Feb 21, 2016)

Our "last hurrah" has turned into somewhat of a cluster. We weren't doing anything fancy or abusing the system, just a simple CHI-SAN round trip. First problem was booking the trip. AGR would not let us change trains in FUL, we had to stay on the SWC all the way into LAX to catch the Surfliner. Had to do the same thing in reverse, too. In total, that's six hours we're not getting back that wouldn't have happened if we were paying cash, just because of a poorly-programmed reservation system.

For more fun, a week ago we were told by our host that we needed to get off at OSD, not SAN. Change the reservation? Sure... if we cancel the trip booked under the old system and book under the new system, and oh, by the way, you don't have enough points to do that. Lesson there - "last hurrah" reservations cannot be altered. At all. Any changes, even trivial, require rebooking under the new system.

Our solution is going to be getting off the SAN train at OSD, and we've already booked an OSD-SAN train to catch our return train. Another three hours of unnecessary travel (and occupying two seats) due to Amtrak's inflexibility.

Is this any way to run a railroad? Really?

EDIT: In typing this out, I now realize I could have used the changeover against Amtrak and booked the LD travel to FUL under the old system, and booked the FUL-SAN (now OSD) legs under the new system. It would have cost a few more points, but saved 9 hours of nonsense travel. C'est la vie!


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## Bigval109 (Feb 21, 2016)

I'm using the last of my points on my May vacation. I booked before Jan 24 to get the most value for my 60k points. rvr to san then san to rno then rno to cin. All in sleepers. It seems with the big increase in the number of points needed to travel, I may have to back off on my 3 trips per year.


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