# Metra could possibly save money by reducing frequency after 8pm



## MIrailfan (Mar 31, 2022)

Reducing train frequency after 8pm sun-thursday to hourly or everey 2 hours.8 I see ma0ny empty trains.


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## NorthShore (Apr 1, 2022)

MIRAILFAN said:


> Reducing train frequency after 8pm sun-thursday to hourly or everey 2 hours.8 I see ma0ny empty trains.



Metra in Chicago?

If you look at the schedules, they are hourly, at best, during that time period. In my experience, there are many quite full outbound and, often, substantial ridership inbound usually, evenings and late night. Given, they don't cut cars from consists. So some cars might be closed inbound, if there isn't sufficient ridership to warrant.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 1, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> Metra in Chicago?
> 
> If you look at the schedules, they are hourly, at best, during that time period. In my experience, there are many quite full outbound and, often, substantial ridership inbound usually, evenings and late night. Given, they don't cut cars from consists. So some cars might be closed inbound, if there isn't sufficient ridership to warrant.


Actually, I just saw that Willie Wilson* has bought MED and is closing it down so we will have to use his gas giveaway and drive-throughs.... 

*For those of you unaware, Willie Wilson is a Chicago-area McDonalds franchise owner and perennial mayoral candidate who is currently snarling traffic in Chicago with 'gas giveaways.'


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## Deni (Apr 1, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Actually, I just saw that Willie Wilson* has bought MED and is closing it down so we will have to use his gas giveaway and drive-throughs....
> 
> *For those of you unaware, Willie Wilson is a Chicago-area McDonalds franchise owner and perennial mayoral candidate who is currently snarling traffic in Chicago with 'gas giveaways.'


Perennial candidate for whatever office he thinks he'd like to have, Senate, President, Mayor. I'm surprised he hasn't run for governor yet. In 2020 he was the surprise nominee of the Willie Wilson Party. Who saw that coming? 

Better frequencies would increase Metra's ridership, cutting service makes people not want to take it. And like someone said, there is already only hourly service on most lines during off peak, and on some they are as bad as two-an-hour service.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 1, 2022)

Deni said:


> Perennial candidate for whatever office he thinks he'd like to have, Senate, President, Mayor. I'm surprised he hasn't run for governor yet. In 2020 he was the surprise nominee of the Willie Wilson Party. Who saw that coming?


LOL LOL LOL 

Yes! 

(one wonders if Lightfoot's gas giveaway is an early April Fool's too...)



Deni said:


> Better frequencies would increase Metra's ridership, cutting service makes people not want to take it. And like someone said, there is already only hourly service on most lines during off peak, and on some they are as bad as two-an-hour service.


Certainly my line would have a lot more ridership in the evening if they kept the 20 minute headways into the evening as they do during the day, after they go to hourly they lose riders to the bus (although some of us plan our evenings out to coincide with the train since it's faster and more pleasant than the bus). 

However, with less commuter (although the Loop is feeling almost back to it's pre-Covid level of activity) traffic they may not increase things dramatically.


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## Deni (Apr 1, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> LOL LOL LOL
> 
> Yes!
> 
> ...


Best headline I saw today about Lightfoot's gas card giveaway:

_Willie Wilson, Who Gave Away $1.2 Million in Gas, Calls Lightfoot's Gas Card Program ‘Political Stunt'_

I think you are right on about the ME frequencies, my daughter take it everyday to school at 51st-53rd. On days she has band after school if she's not able to catch the 6:03 (I think that's the time) then the wait is too long so she takes the #6 bus.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 1, 2022)

Deni said:


> Best headline I saw today about Lightfoot's gas card giveaway:
> 
> _Willie Wilson, Who Gave Away $1.2 Million in Gas, Calls Lightfoot's Gas Card Program ‘Political Stunt'_


Hahahaha, I'm going to start calling her Willona to really confuse people?



Deni said:


> I think you are right on about the ME frequencies, my daughter take it everyday to school at 51st-53rd. On days she has band after school if she's not able to catch the 6:03 (I think that's the time) then the wait is too long so she takes the #6 bus.


Would that be the 'wood?


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## Deni (Apr 1, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Would that be the 'wood?


Yep, that's her school.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 1, 2022)

Deni said:


> Yep, that's her school.


'89....


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## NorthShore (Apr 1, 2022)

Lyric Opera actually moved up their program start times to 7 so that audiences could "catch their trains", since it can get to be an awful late night with hourly headways, especially if you have to wait 45 minutes to catch an 1130 train.


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## west point (Apr 1, 2022)

It is a shame that METRA consist planning does not allow for reduced size trains in off hours services.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 1, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> Lyric Opera actually moved up their program start times to 7 so that audiences could "catch their trains", since it can get to be an awful late night with hourly headways, especially if you have to wait 45 minutes to catch an 1130 train.


Agreed!


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## MisterUptempo (Apr 1, 2022)

west point said:


> It is a shame that METRA consist planning does not allow for reduced size trains in off hours services.


At one time they used to. They'd place a cab car in the middle of the consist. When they wanted shorter trains (off-peak/weekends), they'd head for the yard, break the consist up at the cab car, and be on their way.


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## MIrailfan (Apr 2, 2022)

tyhey shohld again.


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## lstone19 (Apr 2, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> Lyric Opera actually moved up their program start times to 7 so that audiences could "catch their trains", since it can get to be an awful late night with hourly headways, especially if you have to wait 45 minutes to catch an 1130 train.



Doesn't help. We were at Lyric last night for a planned "approximately 90 minutes" program. But with train choices home being 8:40pm and 10:40pm (9:40pm was annulled with the COVID reduced schedule), Metra was a non-starter for us. 8:40pm might have worked if the stars all aligned but the program went slightly long and at 8:40pm, we were just making it outside the opera house.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 2, 2022)

lstone19 said:


> Doesn't help. We were at Lyric last night for a planned "approximately 90 minutes" program. But with train choices home being 8:40pm and 10:40pm (9:40pm was annulled with the COVID reduced schedule), Metra was a non-starter for us. 8:40pm might have worked if the stars all aligned but the program went slightly long and at 8:40pm, we were just making it outside the opera house.


That wasn't an opera per se, right, just a musical program? I'm going to need to make sure my Ventra card is up to date if next Friday's program doesn't get me out early enough to make a train (it says "approximately three hours").


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## NorthShore (Apr 3, 2022)

MisterUptempo said:


> At one time they used to. They'd place a cab car in the middle of the consist. When they wanted shorter trains (off-peak/weekends), they'd head for the yard, break the consist up at the cab car, and be on their way.



At one time, many years ago, they even ran dinkies (engine with one or two cars) on outlying branches. This required additional time, planning, and employee personnel, however. They seemed to have decided it is more cost effective to just run the equipment and not constantly try to car balance. Realistically, though perhaps not every trip requires full carriages, many do - especially outbound, even if they aren't all needed at outlying stations or in the opposite direction off peak. 

A better argument might actually be for more short turns during peak times, since trains often carry the most significant passenger loads between the first few suburban stops and downtown. THAT is where the more significant loss of car miles with slighter loads actually lies.


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## NorthShore (Apr 3, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> That wasn't an opera per se, right, just a musical program? I'm going to need to make sure my Ventra card is up to date if next Friday's program doesn't get me out early enough to make a train (it says "approximately three hours").



Correct. Most operas will be 2 to 3 hours, ending about 15 to 30 minutes before hourly trains now. You're not going to get 90 minutes for much else than something like Cunning Little Vixen.

Now, I don't know how this affects Joffrey Ballet, which now has its home at the Opera House.

But, the poster's point about abysmal weekend evening Metra schedules in absolutely correct, illustrating why more, not less, service is necessary and valuable.

What I really miss are 56 Milwaukee buses that ran late and stopped right outside the door. Those were packed following performances.


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## jis (Apr 3, 2022)

NorthShore said:


> A better argument might actually be for more short turns during peak times, since trains often carry the most significant passenger loads between the first few suburban stops and downtown. THAT is where the more significant loss of car miles with slighter loads actually lies.


That is why in the New York Area the commuter agencies have the notion of Inner, Middle and Outer Zone services, with the Inner Zone being served most frequently.


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## lstone19 (Apr 4, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> That wasn't an opera per se, right, just a musical program? I'm going to need to make sure my Ventra card is up to date if next Friday's program doesn't get me out early enough to make a train (it says "approximately three hours").



Correct, it was a concert with the Lyric Opera Orchestra and Chorus. But the real issue was the lack of the 9:40pm train on my line (MD-W). We weren't willing to wait almost two hours for the next train. And it's not as if Lyric is constantly changing start times to target and end time that makes trains. Standard curtain times are 7:00pm weeknights and 7:30pm on Saturdays (2:00pm for matinees) with 6:00pm and 1:00pm for the 5+ hour performances such as the later Ring operas. We were back there for Tosca yesterday which ended at 4:45p, missing the 4:30 bank of trains. If Lyric was targeting train times, this would have been a 1pm curtain. But Lyric is very accurate on their performance times (but allow an extra five minutes for bows and right now, they're delaying the curtain five minutes due to delays checking the audience in (must show proof of COVID vax), unlike Broadway In Chicago which I've had go 15 to 20 minutes over the announced length causing us to have to walk very briskly to make a train.


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## Danib62 (Apr 19, 2022)

And they'd save the most money by just eliminating service altogether! Brilliant!


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 19, 2022)

It went over (my program at the Lyric) and I ended up on the bus home - at least it was free* - it was dirty and stanky. Hadn't been on the CTA in like 2-1/2 years or something. 

*broken fare box. 

Indeed, that is the ultimate money saver - not running service at all!


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## jis (Apr 19, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> It went over (my program at the Lyric) and I ended up on the bus home - at least it was free* - it was dirty and stanky. Hadn't been on the CTA in like 2-1/2 years or something.
> 
> *broken fare box.
> 
> Indeed, that is the ultimate money saver - not running service at all!


Indeed. Clearly one sided ideas about saving money comes from those who have little understanding of how an interconnected system of transportation within the context of an environment wthin which it sits works as whole. Taking that argument a step further, it would save even more money if no roads were ever built too, but that would be a bad idea too.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 19, 2022)

jis said:


> Indeed. Clearly one sided ideas about saving money comes from those who have little understanding of how an interconnected system of transportation within the context of an environment wthin which it sits works as whole. Taking that argument a step further, it would save even more money if no roads were ever built too, but that would be a bad idea too.


We would walk on paths that were not maintained or only grudgingly so by local residents.


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## jis (Apr 19, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> We would walk on paths that were not maintained or only grudgingly so by local residents.


As a good Edwardian might say - it has worked for the last four hundred years, so why change things?


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## Metra Electric Rider (Apr 19, 2022)

jis said:


> As a good Edwardian might say - it has worked for the last four hundred years, so why change things?


Don't forget your equerry with the flag in front of your horseless, my dear chap!


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## NorthShore (Apr 19, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> It went over (my program at the Lyric) and I ended up on the bus home - at least it was free* - it was dirty and stanky. Hadn't been on the CTA in like 2-1/2 years or something.
> 
> *broken fare box.
> 
> Indeed, that is the ultimate money saver - not running service at all!



So, you touch upon something significant, here, regarding transit in Chicagoland, one of which the Southeast side lines are a significant example: that of historic tiered levels of service and fares, in commuter rail versus CTA, and the riders who choose one over another for either cost, convenience, cleanliness, safety, or class.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 20, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Don't forget your equerry with the flag in front of your horseless, my dear chap!


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