# New Orleans - Chicago - Grand Forks - Winnipeg - Vancouver - Seattle



## cp

Last week we took a great train trip accross the continent. Here are the details:

NOL-CHI on the "City of N.O." Somewhat refurbished bedrooms, train arrived 30 min early into Chcago, food was OK+. Overall good service but ride quite bumpy at times. Overall: B+

CHI-GFK on the Empire Builder. I loved this train. They should refurbish all sleepers the same way they did in on the Empire Builder. Ride smoother than on the City. Arrived 30 min late into GFK. Dinner was great (I had the fish, prepared on board and it was delicious). Overall: A

GFK-WIN by car, rented one-way from Avis, about $100. There are also two bus companies.

WIN-VAN on the "Canadian." This train costs twice as much per mile as Amtrak for the same level of accomodation (we did double bedrooms throughout), so my expectations were high. On the plus side: *very* smooth ride, more comfortable beds and better food than Amtrak. However, the food was quite comparable to what I had on the Emprie Builder. On the minus side (and big minus that is), the windows on the dome car were dirty and had not been washed in ages. It spoiled the beauty of the Rocky Mountains. I plan on writing to Via's CEO to complain. Train arrived VAN 15 min before schedule. Overall A- (because of the windows).

In VAN we rented a car and drove up north to Wisthler -- great ski village.

VAN-SEA on the Cascades. Had dinner in the restaurant car. Dinner OK. Ride very bumpy on the Canadian side, relatively smooth south of the border. If only we could convince CN to improve the quality of the track in BC, the train could probably shave 30 min off the schedule and offer a more comfortable ride. Great scenery. Immigration control performed by US officers prior to boarding in Vancouver. In addition, the train stops at the border for customs inspection (why can they not do that in VAN as well?). The train was delayed some after leaving VAN, and was delayed even more at the border. We arrived SEA 25 min late. Overall B/B+

All in all, a great trip and experience! I wish we had more (and better) trains in North America!


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## MrFSS

cp said:


> On the minus side (and big minus that is), the windows on the dome car were dirty and had not been washed in ages. It spoiled the beauty of the Rocky Mountains. I plan on writing to Via's CEO to complain.


Thanks for the report. 
I rode _The Canadian_ two years ago and that was my big complaint. Dirty dome windows 

I contacted Via about it and never heard anything back from them. Be interested to hear if you get a response.


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## saxman

Oooh, GFK...my old stomping grounds. And I never once made it up to Winnipeg to ride the Canadian. It's still on my todo list though. The cost is the main thing keeping me.


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## Guest

cp said:


> Last week we took a great train trip accross the continent. Here are the details:
> NOL-CHI on the "City of N.O." Somewhat refurbished bedrooms, train arrived 30 min early into Chcago, food was OK+. Overall good service but ride quite bumpy at times. Overall: B+
> 
> CHI-GFK on the Empire Builder. I loved this train. They should refurbish all sleepers the same way they did in on the Empire Builder. Ride smoother than on the City. Arrived 30 min late into GFK. Dinner was great (I had the fish, prepared on board and it was delicious). Overall: A
> 
> GFK-WIN by car, rented one-way from Avis, about $100. There are also two bus companies.
> 
> WIN-VAN on the "Canadian." This train costs twice as much per mile as Amtrak for the same level of accomodation (we did double bedrooms throughout), so my expectations were high. On the plus side: *very* smooth ride, more comfortable beds and better food than Amtrak. However, the food was quite comparable to what I had on the Emprie Builder. On the minus side (and big minus that is), the windows on the dome car were dirty and had not been washed in ages. It spoiled the beauty of the Rocky Mountains. I plan on writing to Via's CEO to complain. Train arrived VAN 15 min before schedule. Overall A- (because of the windows).
> 
> In VAN we rented a car and drove up north to Wisthler -- great ski village.
> 
> VAN-SEA on the Cascades. Had dinner in the restaurant car. Dinner OK. Ride very bumpy on the Canadian side, relatively smooth south of the border. If only we could convince CN to improve the quality of the track in BC, the train could probably shave 30 min off the schedule and offer a more comfortable ride. Great scenery. Immigration control performed by US officers prior to boarding in Vancouver. In addition, the train stops at the border for customs inspection (why can they not do that in VAN as well?). The train was delayed some after leaving VAN, and was delayed even more at the border. We arrived SEA 25 min late. Overall B/B+
> 
> All in all, a great trip and experience! I wish we had more (and better) trains in North America!



Window washing in a Canadian winter is almost non-existent. You cannot pull a train through a wash rack in freezing temps and only the business car specials get hand washings. Good luck with this one.


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## caravanman

This possible trip from GFK up to Winnipeg by bus interests me. Can anyone point me in the web direction of the correct bus service? Is this a regular border crossing for non USA or Canadian passport holders too?

I am thinking then of a VIA trip from winnipeg up to Churchill and back, at some future date.

Ed B)


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## saxman

caravanman said:


> This possible trip from GFK up to Winnipeg by bus interests me. Can anyone point me in the web direction of the correct bus service? Is this a regular border crossing for non USA or Canadian passport holders too?I am thinking then of a VIA trip from winnipeg up to Churchill and back, at some future date.
> 
> Ed B)


The service is Jefferson Lines The only problem with GFK is that its a pretty small town of 50,000. Amtrak arrives here at 5:00 am or 1:00 am. The next bus to Winnipeg is not until 5:15 pm. Thats not to say there's nothing to do in GFK though. You can always tour my alumni, the University of North Dakota, such as the state of the art Aerospace complexes and the nearly brand new $100 million hockey arena.

Not sure about the border crossing. I'm sure its like any other crossing for non US/Canadian citizens. PM me if you need anymore GFK info about getting around and station locations.


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## Robert

Looking at the Amtrak schedule I thought there was only bus service from Vancouver, BC to Seattle, but you took the train? Please explain. I'm planning a trip from Seattle to Sacramento for February and was assuming I'd have to get to Seattle via the Fast Cat catamaran from Victoria or take the bus from Vancouver, BC.


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## TransAtlantic

Robert said:


> Looking at the Amtrak schedule I thought there was only bus service from Vancouver, BC to Seattle, but you took the train? Please explain. I'm planning a trip from Seattle to Sacramento for February and was assuming I'd have to get to Seattle via the Fast Cat catamaran from Victoria or take the bus from Vancouver, BC.


there is one Cascades train each day from Vancouver, BC, to Seattle...it's on the national timetable...


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## Robert

Thanks for the info. I see it now on the timetable - there are several buses but only one train each direction per day.


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## DaveKCMO

why is there only one train? i don't remember reading why. is it just a funding thing? or are there other issues?


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## Trogdor

The main issue regarding train service between Seattle and Vancouver, BC, is track capacity. The story I have heard is that BNSF wants someone to pay to upgrade the tracks to allow a second train on the line.

However, the tracks that need upgrading are in BC, and therefore the State of Washington is unwilling to pay. The province of British Columbia, the government of Canada, or another third party have thus far been unwilling to spend the money for the upgrades, and therefore, the service remains at just one train daily.

I've read elsewhere that, unless money can be found to upgrade the line some time in the next few years, that one train may be in jeopardy.


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## NS VIA FAN

cp said:


> VAN-SEA on the Cascades.......Ride very bumpy on the Canadian side, relatively smooth south of the border. If only we could convince CN to improve the quality of the track in BC.......


This is Not CN track, its BNSF. The only CN track Amtrak’s Cascades are on is the last 7/10 of a mile into Vancouver’s Pacific Central Station. (CN owns the station trackage) Everything else is BNSF owned. Possibly the track felt rough due to the numerous switches usually found in terminal areas.

Even VIA’s Canadian uses this 12.9 miles of BNSF track between the Fraser River Bridge and the Vancouver Station. CN recently took over the dispatching of this section of track but it remains under BNSF ownership.

BNSF owns and dispatches the 21 miles of track between the Fraser River Bridge and the US border.


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## cp

Regarding transportation from Grand Forks to Winnipeg, my Thomas Cook timetable shows two bus companies running:

Jefferson Lines, dp GFK 15:35 arr WIN 18:55

Triangle Transportation, Inc. dp GFK 10:00 am, arr WIN 14:10.

The later is a better schedule as it will, in theory, allow same-day connection from the Empire Builder to the Canadian. EB arrives GFK at 5:00, bus leaves at 10:00, arrives WIN at 14:10, Canadian leaves at 16:55.

For info on Jefferson Lines, call 612 332 8745

For Trianngle, call 218 773 2631.

Anyone interested in making this transfer by bus should defintely call before to confirm.

As for the US/CAN border crossing, it is a regular crossing and is open to travelers of all nationalities, not just US and CANADA.

Best of luck, it's a fun trip!


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## cp

Thanks for clarifying the track ownership on the Cascades route in BC. I don't understand why the provincial government does not feel like investing money to improve track quality and expand service to/from Seattle?


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## Trogdor

The issue with the ride quality on the Cascades has to do with the specific track/equipment combination.

The rail on the northern section of the route is jointed rail, with the joints approximately 40 feet apart on each rail, but offset roughly 20 feet (so that you'll hit a joint on the left side, then a joint on the right side, then one on the left, then one on the right, etc.). The Talgo equipment used on the Cascades service has cars that are approximately 40 feet (I think they're 39 feet, actually) in length, sharing single-axle trucks between each pair of cars. Therefore, the axles are about 40 feet apart.

The fact that the distance between the joints is the same as the distance between the axles, combined with the light weight of these short cars, has the unfortunate effect of a very noticeable rocking motion left and right as the train travels along that section of the line.

Oh, and if you're going to use station codes, use VAC, not VAN. VAN is the code for Vancouver, WA, which is *not* the same as Vancouver, BC.


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## vamoose BC

cp said:


> Thanks for clarifying the track ownership on the Cascades route in BC. I don't understand why the provincial government does not feel like investing money to improve track quality and expand service to/from Seattle?


the provincial governments tend not to own track - this tends to be a federal responsibility. However, BC government has been disinvesting in rail for a number of years, most recently with the controversial sale of BC Rail, a freight line up the middle of the province. BC Rail was developed in the late 50s/early 60s to assist resource industries.

We have a small rail line on Vancouver Island that would make a perfect commuting corridor, as the population is growing and the highways are limited by geography (ocean and low mountain). A coalition has been working hard to save this little line, and purchased it two years ago. It runs one passenger train a day (1 or 2 bud cars).

We just had a 14 billion dollar transportation infrastructure investment announcement, all for public transit, and none for rail.

Unfortunately, a rail line partly owned by another national interest has about less than zero chance of attracting any money unless some pitch can be made for why it might facilitate tourist travel during the Olympics (2010).

Cheers!


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## John Bredin

rmadisonwi said:


> The main issue regarding train service between Seattle and Vancouver, BC, is track capacity. The story I have heard is that BNSF wants someone to pay to upgrade the tracks to allow a second train on the line.
> However, the tracks that need upgrading are in BC, and therefore the State of Washington is unwilling to pay. The province of British Columbia, the government of Canada, or another third party have thus far been unwilling to spend the money for the upgrades, and therefore, the service remains at just one train daily.


The matter of who pays for the necessary improvements was firmly resolved several months ago, and the second Vancouver (BC) Cascades train is supposed to start in the summer.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Rail/AmtrakCascades/2ndTrain.htm

According to the Province of BC's press release Link, the Province is chipping in $4.5 million, or more than half of the overall $7 million cost. That could be $4.5 million Canadian and $7 million American  but that's still more than half, even with the falling dollar.


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## Steve4031

That is an intersting way to get to Winnipeg. How far was the Avis office from the Amtrak station?


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