# Lake Shore Limited Diner



## Donctor (Aug 4, 2009)

This Saturday I will be taking the Lake Shore Limited from NYP to CHI, and I'm aware it will not have a Heritage diner. I've had the Amfleet II Diner Lite food before and I wasn't impressed in the slightest. The CCC food is (at least in my opinion) much better, although that may be due to preparation differences, as opposed to differences in the actual food.

Anyway, to my question: When will the LSL get its diners back? Will Beech Grove get the diners fixed with the federal money, or will that money all be used for Superliners and Amfleets? Will we have to wait until the Viewliner IIs start arriving for full dining service? Given that the Lake Shore is Amtrak's premier ("premier" might be a little strong) New York-Chicago train, and given that there are now two sections to the train (though only the number of coaches has increased), isn't full dining service deserved?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 4, 2009)

First they're working on the old Heritage diners getting refurbished-- they're getting pushed through and put on Silver Service rotation and one will eventually join the LSL-- the Viewliner prototype diner will be on the road soon as well. One consist will get the Viewliner diner, and one will get a refurbed diner-- the dinerlites are supposed to be put on 448/449 for Boston hot meal service. They should be all ready by Thanksgiving.

Of course, that is what I have heard.


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## wayman (Aug 4, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> One consist will get the Viewliner diner, and one will get a refurbed diner


Aren't there three LSL trainsets? So, one gets the Viewliner diner prototype and two get repaired Heritage diners.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 5, 2009)

wayman said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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> 
> > One consist will get the Viewliner diner, and one will get a refurbed diner
> ...


Bingo-- sorry, I'm tired tonight. Not on top of my game.


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## Rafi (Aug 5, 2009)

It should also be noted that the Diner-Lite food in the Amfleet Diner-Lite (or Diner-Lounge, depending who you talk to) car has gotten much better in the past year, so if you haven't ridden it recently, it may be better than what you remember.

Rafi


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## BuzzKillington (Aug 5, 2009)

Just stay away from the breakfast potatoes if you don't like eating cardboard! What I really can't understand is why they are converting more cars into Diner Lite, if they are planning on getting rid of them from the LSL. Will they be putting them on other trains? By my count, even right now, they only need 5 running.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 5, 2009)

I haven't seen or heard (in a while) that more diners are coming out of storage at BG. As I have said before, there are four possibles (8501,11,14,19,and 54), but currently only the 8400 is coming out :unsure: . I think they're going to run 8400 just like they did originally with 37000 (Superliner Diner Lounge), they're going to run one toatally different set then the other two, with the Diner-Lite-Lounge heading to Boston and a Horizon dinette to NYP. Unfortunitly, I don't think any of the Heritage Diners are coming out of storage in BG  .

cpamtfan-Peter


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## cpamtfan (Aug 5, 2009)

Rafi said:


> It should also be noted that the Diner-Lite food in the Amfleet Diner-Lite (or Diner-Lounge, depending who you talk to) car has gotten much better in the past year, so if you haven't ridden it recently, it may be better than what you remember.
> Rafi



Yeah, the menus look good for both the LSL and Cardinal, but it looks like the Cardinal menu is not using toatally full service (the LSL can use full service since it is a whole car, not half and half).

cpamtfan-Peter


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 6, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Just stay away from the breakfast potatoes if you don't like eating cardboard! What I really can't understand is why they are converting more cars into Diner Lite, if they are planning on getting rid of them from the LSL. Will they be putting them on other trains? By my count, even right now, they only need 5 running.


Because, while I happen to like the original AmLounge setup, the fact of the matter is, every other Amfleet II has beige-and-brown interior schemes that look right out of That 70s Show. They are clearly in need of refurbishing, and while your at it, installing a convection oven, steam table, and conductor's office (the differences between simply refurbishing Amfleet II lounges to standard Amtrak Lounge standards and a Diner Lite) makes sense- it allows any Amfleet II lounge to serve as a diner lite if need be. There are still going to be Heritage Diners on the road for quite some time, they are ancient and not particularly reliable, and having Diner-Lites availible in Sunnyside to substitute, while not as nice as a H-Diner, is vastly preferable to a Amfleet I full-dinette. And equipment standardization has been a Amtrak basic concept since day one- and not for the wrong reasons, I must point out.

Why does the Lake Shore, the "premier" train, not have a diner? Well, if I was running things, I'd do it that way, too.

The Silver Star and Crescent use the exact same consist, and the Silver Meteor a very similar one. All three run together as far as Alexandria, VA. The two Florida trains were a no-brainer.

The Cardinal is not long enough (train length, not trip length) to justify both a diner and lounge. Given its mountain running, you'd practically need another engine to haul a second food service- especially the extremely heavy Heritage diners, and there isn't enough volume to justify them from a service length anyway. Using a diner-lite on the Cardinal is another no-brainer- it works excellently on its own on that train.

With sufficient consists to run three trains with diner service, and two of them spoken for, you have two trains that are optional- the _Crescent_ and the _Lake Shore Limited_. The two termini (New Orleans and Chicago) would both benefit from not having to support Heritage diners, so that's even. Four factors weigh in favor of the Lake Shore being the one not to have a regular diner:

1) The Lake Shore Limited only runs with one food service car from either of its eastern terminals, so they run different consists then the three Atlantic Coast Service trains.

2) Due to engine shortages, only runs with one P32ACDM- the least powerful diesel used in the east- from New York. While one engine could certainly handle the weight difference between a diner-lite and an H-diner, the trip to Albany is unique in that it runs diesel, yet will hit 110 mph in sections. Less weight improves acceleration, therefore shortening trip time slightly.

3) The northern running of the Lake Shore in the winter is utterly freezing, and puts more strain on the geriatric H-diners.

4) Most important: The Lake Shore Limited is a much shorter run than the Cescent train. No matter how you slice it, you aren't serving more than three meals on the _Lake Shore Limited_, and you can get away with- and do get away with - two. The Crescent, conversely, serves four one way, five the other, and could justify 5 meals both directions. The diner is more appreciated on the longer trip.

If two trains have to run without H-diners, clearly those two trains should be- and are- the Cardinal and Lake Shore Limited.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 6, 2009)

GML, I believe there are still three or four "smokered lounge" Amfleet II cars in addition to the booth and lounge Amlounge.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> GML, I believe there are still three or four "smokered lounge" Amfleet II cars in addition to the booth and lounge Amlounge.


Correct- and they all have the same basic colour scheme and need heavy overhauls.


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## printman2000 (Aug 6, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> The Silver Star and Crescent use the exact same consist, and the Silver Meteor a very similar one. All three run together as far as Alexandria, VA. The two Florida trains were a no-brainer.


Why do you consider the Silver trains a "no-brainer"?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 6, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > The Silver Star and Crescent use the exact same consist, and the Silver Meteor a very similar one. All three run together as far as Alexandria, VA. The two Florida trains were a no-brainer.
> ...


Because they're constantly full and there's always a market for them.


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## BuzzKillington (Aug 6, 2009)

Didn't Boardman recently say that Diner Lite would be off the LSL by either Thanksgiving or Christmas? I think he said it just didnt work on that train.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 6, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Didn't Boardman recently say that Diner Lite would be off the LSL by either Thanksgiving or Christmas? I think he said it just didnt work on that train.



Maybe on one set (with the Viewliner Diner), but no other ones unless somehow they are getting the money and parts for some of the ones in storage at BG.


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## BuzzKillington (Aug 6, 2009)

No, I'm pretty sure it was all 3. 2 Heritage and a Viewliner


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## AlanB (Aug 6, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > GML, I believe there are still three or four "smokered lounge" Amfleet II cars in addition to the booth and lounge Amlounge.
> ...


And all of them will eventually make their way to BG and be turned into Diner-Lite cars.


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## AlanB (Aug 6, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> cpamtfan said:
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> 
> > BuzzKillington said:
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I have no idea on the particulars, as in how is Amtrak finding 2 Heritage dining cars, but the LSL will hopefully by years end indeed see full dining cars in all consists. The prototype 8400 Viewliner Diner will be the third car needed to fill out the roster.

I think that the Viewliner is the determining factor, once it's done and everything fits and is tested, the switch will happen. Until that car gets out of BG, they can't switch the LSL over to full dining car service.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 6, 2009)

AlanB said:


> BuzzKillington said:
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> > cpamtfan said:
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Well there are four in BG, but I'm not sure they even have the trucks roadworthy :huh: .


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## Ispolkom (Aug 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Well there are four in BG, but I'm not sure they even have the trucks roadworthy :huh: .


And since I'm going to be on the Lake Shore Limited CHI-BOS on Nov. 21, I will continue to live in hope. Given that when I booked the ticket there wasn't even a through sleeper, I figure I'm gaining by leaps and bounds.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 6, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > The Silver Star and Crescent use the exact same consist, and the Silver Meteor a very similar one. All three run together as far as Alexandria, VA. The two Florida trains were a no-brainer.
> ...


Because they share routes most of the way, many stops, run to the same servicing facilities, are always full to the brim- especially the sleeping cars- and have very long runs. Having identical equipment makes sense. They run with the same crews, even- in fact, usually the Northbound Silver Meteor crew turns as the Southbound Silver Star and vice-versa. A Heritage Diner can up its kitchen crew to increase volume, a Diner Lite can't.

Furthermore, Chicago has access to the Horizon Dinettes, while New York doesn't.


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## AlanB (Aug 6, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > Well there are four in BG, but I'm not sure they even have the trucks roadworthy :huh: .
> ...


:lol: :lol:

Hopefully luck will hold and you'll get a full diner.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 7, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> printman2000 said:
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> > Green Maned Lion said:
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Actually, I don't think the Star/Meteors consists fluctuate. Probably the Star/ Crescent share consists.


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## wayman (Aug 7, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
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> > printman2000 said:
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I thought the Meteor carried an additional sleeper, either all or part of the year.


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## Donctor (Aug 7, 2009)

wayman said:


> I thought the Meteor carried an additional sleeper, either all or part of the year.



It does, as my topic "AMTKing's Consists" shows. However, I believe what's being said is that the consist don't fluctuate (which they don't), and that the Star/Crescent can share equipment, which they probably do. I'll have to look more closely at my day-to-day consist changes, but at least for now we can assume that consists amongst the two trains can be shared.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 7, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Actually, I don't think the Star/Meteors consists fluctuate. Probably the Star/ Crescent share consists.


Yes... that's what I said.


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## jis (Aug 8, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I don't think the Star/Meteors consists fluctuate. Probably the Star/ Crescent share consists.
> ...


Is there any operational advantage in Star and Crescent switching consists, other than to get the Crescent consist down to Hialeah for servicing and maintenance?


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## Donctor (Aug 8, 2009)

jis said:


> Is there any operational advantage in Star and Crescent switching consists, other than to get the Crescent consist down to Hialeah for servicing and maintenance?


I would imagine that they can swap consists if one isn't turned in time, but I would doubt that consists are purposefully swapped on a regular basis. More likely it's just the usual shuffle of cars. Benefits? They certainly could send a Crescent car down to Hialeah for service (in fact I saw the Crescent running with an Amfleet I Café and a Silver with a deadhead Amfleet II Café the same day, most likely illustrating the aforementioned situation). Also, from getting 30th Street consists for the last 6 weeks, it appears that the Crescent will sometimes swap out its diner so it can be sent to Hialeah for whatever reason.


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## AlanB (Aug 8, 2009)

Hialeah is home to the Viewliners only. Other than a major overhaul or wreck repair, the bulk of the needed work on a Viewliner is done at Hialeah. All 92 day inspections and I believe the major annual inspections are done at the Hialeah shops.

Hialeah can fix other cars that come in with problems encountered enroute, but otherwise neither Amfleets nor Heritage cars are sent to Hialeah for repairs or maintenance. AMF's and Heritage cars would go to Bear most likely, assuming that the local base cannot handle the issue, or Beech Grove for something major. And Bear would remain the first choice for AMF's, Heritage cars seem to go to BG more often than not; especially for heavy overhauls.

Now I have heard stories about Sunnyside sending out cars with problems that they didn't want to fix to other bases so as to get it out of their hair, however those cars would not go out as deadheads because Sunnyside would not be able to claim that the car was working for them. They need it to at least try to appear that the car failed enroute.


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## cpamtfan (Aug 8, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Hialeah is home to the Viewliners only. Other than a major overhaul or wreck repair, the bulk of the needed work on a Viewliner is done at Hialeah. All 92 day inspections and I believe the major annual inspections are done at the Hialeah shops.
> Hialeah can fix other cars that come in with problems encountered enroute, but otherwise neither Amfleets nor Heritage cars are sent to Hialeah for repairs or maintenance. AMF's and Heritage cars would go to Bear most likely, assuming that the local base cannot handle the issue, or Beech Grove for something major. And Bear would remain the first choice for AMF's, Heritage cars seem to go to BG more often than not; especially for heavy overhauls.
> 
> Now I have heard stories about Sunnyside sending out cars with problems that they didn't want to fix to other bases so as to get it out of their hair, however those cars would not go out as deadheads because Sunnyside would not be able to claim that the car was working for them. They need it to at least try to appear that the car failed enroute.



I don't believe Heritage cars are serviced in Bear. Most times it will be Beech Grove for overhauls and major inspections.


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## alanh (Aug 8, 2009)

Well, heck. I'm going to be on the LSL in mid-Oct for CHI-BOS, but it sounds like they won't have the diners ready by then.


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## Donctor (Aug 8, 2009)

alanh said:


> Well, heck. I'm going to be on the LSL in mid-Oct for CHI-BOS, but it sounds like they won't have the diners ready by then.


According to today's #49 crew, employees were told to prepare for the diners' return in mid-November.


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## PetalumaLoco (Aug 8, 2009)

Amtking said:


> alanh said:
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> 
> > Well, heck. I'm going to be on the LSL in mid-Oct for CHI-BOS, but it sounds like they won't have the diners ready by then.
> ...


Fap! I'll be on it Tuesday.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Aug 8, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Amtking said:
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I really want to eat in the prototype diner so bad... dare I try for a short-turn?


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## cpamtfan (Aug 8, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
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> > Amtking said:
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Me too. I also need to get on a train again and this could be a good opportunity.


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## Donctor (Aug 9, 2009)

Rafi said:


> It should also be noted that the Diner-Lite food in the Amfleet Diner-Lite (or Diner-Lounge, depending who you talk to) car has gotten much better in the past year, so if you haven't ridden it recently, it may be better than what you remember.
> Rafi



Quite right. It was much better than it was on my last trip. Now that they've finally gotten the hang of working the car, they'll have to go back to the diner. Interesting.


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## BuzzKillington (Sep 8, 2009)

Has anyone heard any more news on the return of the regular dining car? I'm going to be riding this train in late November/early December and would like to know if there is a chance I might get a better dining experience.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 8, 2009)

Amtking said:


> alanh said:
> 
> 
> > Well, heck. I'm going to be on the LSL in mid-Oct for CHI-BOS, but it sounds like they won't have the diners ready by then.
> ...


Well Ill miss it too,riding in Oct.!!!


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## wayman (Sep 8, 2009)

Amtking said:


> Rafi said:
> 
> 
> > It should also be noted that the Diner-Lite food in the Amfleet Diner-Lite (or Diner-Lounge, depending who you talk to) car has gotten much better in the past year, so if you haven't ridden it recently, it may be better than what you remember.
> ...


Well, yes and no. Once the diner returns (mid-Nov, apparently), the plan is as follows:

NYP-ALB, section carries a diner functioning as such

BOS-ALB, section carries a diner lite functioning as such

ALB-CHI, train carries both, with diner as diner and diner lite as lounge (and maybe overflow diner?)

So the diner lite crew will still prepare some meals in the car; their experience should make this transition go pretty smoothly, I hope, and then the Boston section will be better fed than it's ever been under Amtrak. (At least, I don't think the Boston section has ever had hot meals from its own diner....)


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## jis (Sep 8, 2009)

Considering how much better Dining service was on the Silver Service trains this last weekend, I would even consider a short ride on the LSL when it gets its Diner back. On the Silver Star I got to experience a spotless clean Temoinsa Diner (ex-PRR car) with color coordinated curtains at every window, and a great service crew. They even served Dinner after we passed Baltimore on the way back to New York on the Star! From the crew I heard a rumor that the interior of the Viewliner Diner would be appointed somewhat similar to the Temoinsa Diners, which they seem to like. Intriguingly they seem to be already calling the Temoinsa Diners Viewliner Diners. Go figure!

Oh and the crew.... they seem to have completely missed the army boot-camp part of their training, where they traditionally learn to say in a gruff voice "you vill sit there!" and such pronouncements. All meals, even those with reservations, were essentially free seating. If a space is open feel free to sit there even if another table has open space. I was impressed. Was almost reminded of the Canadian from that angle. Needless to say, I was a very happy camper able to sit by an window for every meal.


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## cpamtfan (Sep 8, 2009)

I believe a Horizon cafe will also be run with the Viewliner Diner to/from NYC.


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## cpamtfan (Sep 8, 2009)

jis said:


> Considering how much better Dining service was on the Silver Service trains this last weekend, I would even consider a short ride on the LSL when it gets its Diner back. On the Silver Star I got to experience a spotless clean Temoinsa Diner (ex-PRR car) with color coordinated curtains at every window, and a great service crew. They even served Dinner after we passed Baltimore on the way back to New York on the Star! From the crew I heard a rumor that the interior of the Viewliner Diner would be appointed somewhat similar to the Temoinsa Diners, which they seem to like. Intriguingly they seem to be already calling the Temoinsa Diners Viewliner Diners. Go figure!
> Oh and the crew.... they seem to have completely missed the army boot-camp part of their training, where they traditionally learn to say in a gruff voice "you vill sit there!" and such pronouncements. All meals, even those with reservations, were essentially free seating. If a space is open feel free to sit there even if another table has open space. I was impressed. Was almost reminded of the Canadian from that angle. Needless to say, I was a very happy camper able to sit by an window for every meal.



Well that would be odd looking if it got a Temoinsa kit :huh: . It will have to be something else, or a modified kit.


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## AlanB (Sep 8, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> I believe a Horizon cafe will also be run with the Viewliner Diner to/from NYC.


Not unless the plan has changed in the last few months.

Besides, two cafe cars for the LSL would be overkill and a waste of food service staff, something that runs contrary to the demmand from Congress to cut food service losses.


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## AlanB (Sep 8, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Considering how much better Dining service was on the Silver Service trains this last weekend, I would even consider a short ride on the LSL when it gets its Diner back. On the Silver Star I got to experience a spotless clean Temoinsa Diner (ex-PRR car) with color coordinated curtains at every window, and a great service crew. They even served Dinner after we passed Baltimore on the way back to New York on the Star! From the crew I heard a rumor that the interior of the Viewliner Diner would be appointed somewhat similar to the Temoinsa Diners, which they seem to like. Intriguingly they seem to be already calling the Temoinsa Diners Viewliner Diners. Go figure!
> ...


It would also be impossible, since the Viewliner cars are modular cars and the Temoinsa kits are not modular.

I suppose that they could try to base the module’s design on ideas from the Temoinsa package, but that's about it.


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## Donctor (Sep 9, 2009)

AlanB said:


> Besides, two cafe cars for the LSL would be overkill and a waste of food service staff, something that runs contrary to the demmand from Congress to cut food service losses.


What they really should do is run both the Amfleet II lounge and the diner NYP-CHI, and limit the Horizon café to BOS-ALB operation. That may, however, be difficult given that the Horizon only operates because it's what Chicago could come up with. I'd imagine that basing it in ALB or BOS would "disrupt" (as an attendant on the LSL a month ago put it) the Amfleet fleet in the NE.


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## AlanB (Sep 9, 2009)

Amtking said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Besides, two cafe cars for the LSL would be overkill and a waste of food service staff, something that runs contrary to the demmand from Congress to cut food service losses.
> ...


The point of sending the Amfleet II cafe to Boston is that it's a Diner-Lite car and it can provide cooked meals to the Boston sleeping car passengers. The Horizon cafe cannot do that, so right now sleeping car passengers get a cold meal.

Sending the AMF II to NY and keeping the Horizon in the Boston section would not improve things for the Boston sleeping car passengers.


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## jis (Sep 9, 2009)

AlanB said:


> It would also be impossible, since the Viewliner cars are modular cars and the Temoinsa kits are not modular.
> I suppose that they could try to base the module’s design on ideas from the Temoinsa package, but that's about it.


I don't think they were alluding to using Temoinsa kit in Viewliners. They were alluding more to the way the kitchen is laid out etc., which as we all know was a disaster in the original Viewliner Diner. As for color of wall paneling etc., that is easy to adjust to whatever, and if they so choose they could make the interior look similar (but clearly not the same) as that of Temoinsas.

BTW Alan, how many booths does the Viewliner floorplan have in it? Is it 10 or 12?


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## BuzzKillington (Sep 9, 2009)

Fantastic! So it looks like the new Diner car will be open by Thanksgiving. The dinner wasn't bad in the Diner Lite car... but the breakfast left a lot to be desired. Also, the many boxes thrown on top of seats and tables used for storage was a little crazy. I wonder if I will actually be able to take a shower this trip... or will the shower in the Viewliner be used for storing boxes as well. haha


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## AlanB (Sep 9, 2009)

jis said:


> BTW Alan, how many booths does the Viewliner floorplan have in it? Is it 10 or 12?


There are 12 booths, however at least one if not two of the booths will be missing a bench seat on one side to allow for a wheelchair to be pulled up to the table.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 9, 2009)

Who came up with that nutty idea? I'm all for ADA compliance and all, but the standard vestibule width, not to mention the aisles on trains, can't accommodate wheelchairs. Perhaps the one person in the Viewliner sleeper H room directly across from the diner. I'd hope it is at most one.

You can't pretend that a handicapped person can do everything or go anywhere a non-handicapped person can. Sure, they can do many things. Sure, they can live on their own with limited assistance. It doesn't mean you have to have life without living. But come on.

Its like pretending there are no difference between men and women in capability- there are. Or pretending their are no characteristic difference between people of differing race. Your breed of human comes from a different place, you have developed differently, both physically and culturally, to best suit that environment- indeed, skin colour is one clearly visible example of that. It is not coincidental that there are more black males in the sports super-star arena, for example.

To do our best, as a society, to allow people of any group to overcome unfair disadvantages (the poverty and limited education afflicting many minority groups, for example) is important. Helping any person perform and contribute to the best of their personal capability, to the best they can achieve, is a worthy goal, and one we don't work hard enough at.

I'm handicapped, both mentally and physically. I have a bum leg that has, over time, caused everything on top of it to be thrown off physically- my back, my neck, my shoulders - due to the fact that I walk in a way the human body was not meant to do. Every step I have ever taken since I started walking is accompanied with physical pain ranging from unpleasant to excruciatingly painful. When I was a child a doctor told my mom I'd never walk. I ran a marathon once.

But I'm not going to pretend there are things I simply can't do as a result of my having surgically-compensated CP. I can't really run anymore. I limp, sometimes pretty bad. I stopped being able to play American Football when I was about 18- I used to really enjoy it, too. I can only play real football on a really good day- and I usually can't play a full game, my ankle gives out too quickly. I carry a cane in my car because once in a while, I actually need it. Sometimes going up stairs, which I stubbornly always do if its 2 floors or less, and sometimes when its more, I need to use my upper body more than my lower body, hauling myself up by the banister.

I have doctors who are amazed how well I have adapted to a sever physical handicap. But even my astronomical share of pure mulish stubbornness can't stop it from being limiting. I hate it when the world pretends that it is possible to remove all limitations for handicapped people.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 9, 2009)

Congrats on overcoming the disadvantage that came your way!Interesting philosophy,most of it sounds reasonable but I will challenge the notion that blacks are more able to be Super-Star athletes because they are black or brown or green or whatever!This has gotten lots of sports management guys and personalities in trouble(remember Jimmy the Greek)!

Id say its more likely that the folksa who make it to the top were born with unatural ability and worked their butt off to get to the top!Lots of folks of all persuasions are born with ability and never develop it!

In this age of PC we all see idiotic and non-sensical policies developed and implimented in the name of "sameness.equality,dumbing down etc. One persons idea of idiocy is anothers idea of fairness!Its pretty obvious we wont see a female player in the NFL in our lifetimes (well,kickers dont count!LOL),theres a teenage female golf whiz who tried to play with the big boys and she is not competetive!Wish I coulda played against females when I was a young sports star(high school level only!LOL),might a been a contenda!!

It is good to see more females working on railroads,both OBS and operating crew,I sleep just as well @ night on a train when the en gineer and conductors are female as when a 30 year vet is in charge!


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 9, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Congrats on overcoming the disadvantage that came your way!Interesting philosophy,most of it sounds reasonable but I will challenge the notion that blacks are more able to be Super-Star athletes because they are black or brown or green or whatever!This has gotten lots of sports management guys and personalities in trouble(remember Jimmy the Greek)!


You know, I'm always worried typing a post like this. Not because I want to be politically correct- that just isn't in me. But because I'm afraid people will either think I am actually suggesting that a group is superior than another (I'm not) or that I'm inherently prejudiced (I'm not).

To move it off of people, and onto animals, since I can explain it that way without offending people- I hope- consider two dogs. Malamutes and dachshunds. A malamute is a huge dog used for various kinds of work that involve brute strength, something they are good at. They were bred with this in mind. Dachshunds, on the other hand, are small dogs, thin and long, low to the ground. They were bred to kill tunnel bound animals, like moles and gophers.

Neither dog is particularly better than the other. But you can't use a dachshund to pull a sled- its neither large enough, nor strong enough. And you can't use a Malamute to hunt gophers. Its too big to fit in the tunnels.

Like those dogs, different races- we can call them breeds- have developed physically, mentally, and culturally in a way that best suits the environment they are in, and the activities that they engage in to live.

For example, people from the British isles live in an area where it is frequently cold, dark, and rainy, and in years past had plenty of snow. Many people that I know who have historically come from that area of the world are pale, and sunburn easily- but their paler complexion allows them to blend into a lighter, whiter landscape, such as you have when it snows. Africa, on the other hand, has alot of sun. Its hot and sunny and the sun is more intense. They've developed dark skin in order to better suit living in a place with a lot of sun.

Is one better than the other? No.

Is a person of darker skin more capable of spending long stretches of time in the sun? Yes.

My point being, while we can consider no group of people overall superior to another, we can not suggest that there are no differences that are generally present in a particular group. Pretending otherwise is being quixotic.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 9, 2009)

I only pointed out that in this age of PC some idiots still say such ridiculous things as "they" are faster/better dancers/basketball players etc. etc. cause they are "___________"(fill in the blanks!0 I know what you are pointing out,

I agree as I said with most of your post but just be careful with the racial part cause people get bent out of shape easily in this PCage as I said! Im a member of a persecuted group, aged,southern white male with no money! LOL


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## wayman (Sep 9, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> For example, people from the British isles live in an area where it is frequently cold, dark, and rainy, and in years past had plenty of snow. Many people that I know who have historically come from that area of the world are pale, and sunburn easily- but their paler complexion allows them to blend into a lighter, whiter landscape, such as you have when it snows. Africa, on the other hand, has alot of sun. Its hot and sunny and the sun is more intense. They've developed dark skin in order to better suit living in a place with a lot of sun.


Light skin tone (ie, less melanin) isn't related to blending in in snowy climates! It's more likely one of two things, both related closely to the reason you cite for dark skin tone (ie, more melanin to block excessive UV radiation found in equitorial/sunny climates). One theory is that light skin tone was an advantageous trait for people who moved further north, to areas with less sunlight, which allowed them to absorb more UV radiation (and hence synthesize more vitamin D, which basically requires sunlight), so people who moved north developed lighter skin tones. Another theory is that light skin tone is "default"--pretty much every furry mammal has light skin under their fur, as there's no need for UV-blocking melanin when the fur blocks the UV for you. Humans evolved to be hairless, and hence in certain conditions melanin is highly beneficial to protect bare skin; but genes to produce melanin aren't necessarily dominant, so when those conditions aren't present, dark skin is no longer advantageous and non-melanin genes eventually take dominance.


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## GML (Sep 9, 2009)

Ok, so I got my genetics wrong, but my point remains.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 9, 2009)

Guess GMLs are prone to tired fingers when typing posts so dont Log In!LOL


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## ALC Rail Writer (Sep 9, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Guess GMLs are prone to tired fingers when typing posts so dont Log In!LOL


Nah, he's just not on his home computer.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 9, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Guess GMLs are prone to tired fingers when typing posts so dont Log In!LOL
> ...


It was a joke ALC!!!Think we talked the previous thread to death,lets take a trip on a train! :lol:


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## rrdude (Sep 9, 2009)

jis said:


> Oh and the crew.... they seem to have completely missed the army boot-camp part of their training, where they traditionally learn to say in a gruff voice "you vill sit there!" and such pronouncements. All meals, even those with reservations, were essentially free seating. If a space is open feel free to sit there even if another table has open space. I was impressed. Was almost reminded of the Canadian from that angle. Needless to say, I was a very happy camper able to sit by an window for every meal.


Amazing what a difference a crew can make eh? I'm sure we have all experienced that, both on the rails and at regular restaurants. You can _almost_ get by serving slop, as long as you "kill 'em with kindness"..... (I said "almost")

Conversely, you can plate a five-star chateaubriand, and if the service sux, well then, so does EVERYthing.....

I think the crew is what KILLED the Auto-Train trip that our neighbors took. They'd heard us rave about it, with all the caveats about being railfans, (worst thing we can do is assume the Gen Public is gonna put up with some of the sh** that we do) but they said the entire crew, was just God-awful.

I can attest from experience years ago, some, nay, many crews like to well, "crew together". They get used to each other, form a sort of friendship, and tend to "seek out others" who share their views...........And God help you if you want to do something RIGHT, or COURTEOUS for the pax, that that particular crew doesn't normally do.

I crossed a chef on the old Broadway once, by taking an order for poached eggs. Hell, it said "eggs, any way" on the menu, and that's how the customer ordered them.

Learned my lesson in two ways. 1) Took 45 minutes to get the eggs from the chef. 2) Make sure you take care of the Chef/kitchen staff at the beginning of the trip.

Liquor miniatures, tip out, switch bunks, peel some potatoes, get them cool drinks, you name it. Once they know you care, then they will be looking out for you. Man, you'll have poached eggs 'for you leave the kitchen with the coffee.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Sep 19, 2009)

wayman said:


> Amtking said:
> 
> 
> > Rafi said:
> ...


So does this mean for those of us who board in Boston in a sleeper to Chicago we can expect a hot lunch instead of a cold one? When I last took this train in April and I had a sleeper, they served cold plate lunches from Boston to Albany, and then in Albany to Chicago, there were hot meals?

Maybe it is hard to answer this question until the time comes, but I am planning a trip for my mom to come visit me and I really am trying to encourage her to take a sleeper. It might be easier to convince her if she knew she might get a hot meal versus a sandwich for lunch!


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## AlanB (Sep 19, 2009)

That is the plan Jackie, that hot meals will be served on the Boston section between Boston and Albany, once full diners return. Precisely when the full diners will return is still undecided, as it requires getting cars back in service. It's hoped that it will happen late fall, but again nothing is official yet.


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## Tripyramidslide (Oct 6, 2009)

Ispolkom said:


> cpamtfan said:
> 
> 
> > Well there are four in BG, but I'm not sure they even have the trucks roadworthy :huh: .
> ...


Does anybody remember the dining car on the LSL that had stars on the ceiling?


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 6, 2009)

Are the diners back yet on the LSL, Im riding Thursday from CHI-NY???(Hopefully!!!!!!)


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## cpamtfan (Oct 6, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Are the diners back yet on the LSL, Im riding Thursday from CHI-NY???(Hopefully!!!!!!)



They did DEADHEAD (not in service) a diner on Sunday towards Chicago, but that was probably heading to Beech Grove Shops for mantienence. There is the slightest chance they were deadheading it to CHI to start revenue service, but most likely not. Diner Lite food isn't THAT bad, its just not as freshly prepared as on regular diners or CCCs.


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## cpamtfan (Oct 6, 2009)

Tripyramidslide said:


> Ispolkom said:
> 
> 
> > cpamtfan said:
> ...



What? Stars on the ceiling? When was this from?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Tripyramidslide said:
> 
> 
> > Ispolkom said:
> ...


That sounds like the PPC. Is this pre-Amtrak?


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Tripyramidslide said:
> 
> 
> > Ispolkom said:
> ...


I vaguely recall a subdued star pattern on arborite ceiling panels on a Budd, hertage diner on the LSL in the mid-1970's. I believe CP's Budd diners (now Via's) had them as well. It may have been a standard arborte pattern of the 40's and 50's

Gord


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## AlanB (Oct 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> Tripyramidslide said:
> 
> 
> > Ispolkom said:
> ...


He's talking about the Temoinsa Rebuilds, which have the very tiny led lights in the ceiling and at night does look almost like stars on the ceiling.

And Tripyramidslide, those cars are still in service, just not on the Lake Shore at present.


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## nferr (Oct 6, 2009)

Im taking the Lake Shore this Saturday NYP-Chi. It would be great to have a real diner, but I'm not expecting it. The diner-lite food will be fine for one night.


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## AlanB (Oct 6, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Are the diners back yet on the LSL, Im riding Thursday from CHI-NY???(Hopefully!!!!!!)


I haven't heard any status on the Viewliner Diner I prototype, much less that it's been released from Beech Grove. And since it's being used as a test bed to ensure that the new design for the Viewliner II dining cars actually fits into the car, it is possible that they hit a few snags and got delayed.

But until that Viewliner is released from Beech Grove, the LSL will not have regular dining cars, only the Diner-Lite's.


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## cpamtfan (Oct 6, 2009)

AlanB said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Are the diners back yet on the LSL, Im riding Thursday from CHI-NY???(Hopefully!!!!!!)
> ...



And then there will only be one set with the Viewliner diner, there will most likely be a one and three chance to get it.


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## AlanB (Oct 6, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...


True, but the other two sets will have Heritage dining cars, so regardless one will once again be able to get some freshly cooked food on the LSL again.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 6, 2009)

Are they going to wait on the Viewliner prototype to put on the Temoinsas on the LSL?


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## AlanB (Oct 7, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Are they going to wait on the Viewliner prototype to put on the Temoinsas on the LSL?


Last I had heard, the plan was that one LSL consist would get the Viewliner prototype. The other two consists would get Heritage dining cars. Since just over half of the Heritage dining car fleet is Temoinsa Rebuilds, there is certainly a good chance that at least one of the two cars will be a rebuild.

But the Heritage cars are currently rotated throughout the single level trains as needed, and as repairs and inspections demand. So there is no way to know for sure what will be on the two LSL consists at any given time. I suppose it is possible that Amtrak could decide to make a concerted effort to always send out Temoinsa's on the LSL, but frankly I can't imagine that anyone would order that complication and limit what Sunnyside does to setup the trains. It'll be hard enough dealing with the prototype, as it too will need inspections and repairs, so there will even be times where all three LSL consists will have Heritage cars.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2009)

Hm, then does it stand to reason that as summer wears off and demand on the Silvers goes down the LSL will start rotating in a Heritage?

Or are we all reading tea leaves?


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 7, 2009)

Reading tea leaves is all you ever really get to do in this business unless someone releases a detailed plan, which they never do.


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## frj1983 (Oct 7, 2009)

When I rode the LSL in early September, we of course had the "Dinette," that's what it said on the car! What surprised me was that the food was pretty good! For one the evening meals my Wife had the Salmon and really liked it (and she's a gourmet cook) and I had the steak/pot roast thingy, which I thought was pretty tasty and served nice and warm. Along with a fellow rail fan at the table we had good food and good conversation!


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## BuzzKillington (Oct 7, 2009)

frj1983 said:


> When I rode the LSL in early September, we of course had the "Dinette," that's what it said on the car! What surprised me was that the food was pretty good! For one the evening meals my Wife had the Salmon and really liked it (and she's a gourmet cook) and I had the steak/pot roast thingy, which I thought was pretty tasty and served nice and warm. Along with a fellow rail fan at the table we had good food and good conversation!


Yes the dinners are pretty good... its the breakfast you have to watch out for! Stay away from the eggs and breakfast potatoes in the morning!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> frj1983 said:
> 
> 
> > When I rode the LSL in early September, we of course had the "Dinette," that's what it said on the car! What surprised me was that the food was pretty good! For one the evening meals my Wife had the Salmon and really liked it (and she's a gourmet cook) and I had the steak/pot roast thingy, which I thought was pretty tasty and served nice and warm. Along with a fellow rail fan at the table we had good food and good conversation!
> ...


I can only imagine the horror...

Is the sausage or bacon any good?


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## frj1983 (Oct 7, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> BuzzKillington said:
> 
> 
> > frj1983 said:
> ...


I had an omlette one morning for breakfast and I didn't think it was that bad. I also had the Bacon and it was nice and crispy!!


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## p&sr (Oct 7, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Yes the dinners are pretty good... its the breakfast you have to watch out for! Stay away from the eggs and breakfast potatoes in the morning!


Agreed. Waking up with a Hot Dog and Pepsi from the Snack Car is much more reliable and pleasant. Save the Diner for Dinner!


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## BuzzKillington (Oct 7, 2009)

If I remember correctly, the bacon and sausage wasn't terrible, neither was the french toast. The eggs were very rubbery and the potatoes were pretty much cardboard.


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## AlanB (Oct 7, 2009)

I've had both the French Toast and the cheese omlette on the LSL on different trips, both were just fine. As were my sausage patties.


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## BuzzKillington (Oct 7, 2009)

So I guess it varies by the trip or the crew on the train. I'm just hoping to have the nicer diner on the LSL by the time I take it again. Then there shouldn't be any problems.


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## JSmith (Oct 7, 2009)

I rode the LSL from Buffalo to NYC last Wednesday. Breakfast was served after we boarded (they said they close at 9). The French toast was weird. The first two slices I thought were really good; the second two were SALTY! My wife thought they had perhaps already started to close up the kitchen and had salted the grill to clean it, but I didn't think the diner-lite had a grill as such. The bacon was fine.

Lunch was not bad at all. We had the cheeseburgers and I thought mine was pretty good. The cheesecake for dessert was good.

The LSA told me that they do not serve dinner on the eastbound LSL unless they are late arriving into NYP. And in fact, the dining car closed for good about half an hour after we departed Albany (which means no food at all is available after that, since the snack car goes to Boston).


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## cpamtfan (Oct 7, 2009)

JSmith said:


> I rode the LSL from Buffalo to NYC last Wednesday. Breakfast was served after we boarded (they said they close at 9). The French toast was weird. The first two slices I thought were really good; the second two were SALTY! My wife thought they had perhaps already started to close up the kitchen and had salted the grill to clean it, but I didn't think the diner-lite had a grill as such. The bacon was fine.
> Lunch was not bad at all. We had the cheeseburgers and I thought mine was pretty good. The cheesecake for dessert was good.
> 
> The LSA told me that they do not serve dinner on the eastbound LSL unless they are late arriving into NYP. And in fact, the dining class closed for good about half an hour after we departed Albany (which means no food at all is available after that, since the snack car goes to Boston).


Hmm, some people say they do serve dinner, some not. The saltieness from the french toast sounds wierd. Maybe there was some salt in the convection oven (or do they cook it in the steam tables?).


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## Green Maned Lion (Oct 7, 2009)

On the second breakfast I had on the Cardinal back in May, the dining car attendant, having watched the speed and glee I consume food with, suggested that I get the scrambled eggs for breakfast, since they were "good", and you got more. Yeah, I got more. I think she spooned me out about a double helping, because the couple in the table next to us got about half what I did. She was a great SA. She took orders for, cooked, plated, and delivered meals for everyone in the car, and she must have served 60 people per meal. And while I was half expecting the eggs to be all but inedible, but they weren't half bad.

And when we make scrambled eggs at home, we use a unusual but vastly superior recipe by Rex Stout/Nero Wolfe, which takes about 40 minutes to make, and involves a clarified butter vinegar sauce. So I'd say I am really being complementary with these eggs.


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## AlanB (Oct 7, 2009)

JSmith said:


> I rode the LSL from Buffalo to NYC last Wednesday. Breakfast was served after we boarded (they said they close at 9). The French toast was weird. The first two slices I thought were really good; the second two were SALTY! My wife thought they had perhaps already started to close up the kitchen and had salted the grill to clean it, but I didn't think the diner-lite had a grill as such. The bacon was fine.


No, the Diner-Lite car does not have a grill. Not sure why things were salty, other than perhaps something got spilled onto the toast.


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## MrFSS (Oct 7, 2009)

What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 7, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?


From my experience, yes. The one time I rode 49 the LSA started in the 449 sleeper and then went back to the 49 sleepers.


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## AlanB (Oct 7, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?


No, they won't remember to come and take your reservation, simply because there will be no reservations for either breakfast or lunch. It's first come first served for those two meals on the LSL.

And you get no dinner out of Chicago, only the wine tasting.


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## JSmith (Oct 7, 2009)

On our trip, they did take a lunch reservation for us after we finished breakfast. Although I don't believe the LSA actually wrote down our names or room numbers; he just said, "OK, see you at 12:15!"


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 8, 2009)

AlanB said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?
> ...


What about dinner on 448 Alan? Do they just tell all sleepers to descend onto the dinette?


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## AlanB (Oct 8, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > MrFSS said:
> ...


I assume you mean when 448 is east of Albany. I've seen mixed reports about what happens there. One person reported that they were brought their meal in their sleeping compartment, without requesting that. Several others have reported that they just setup one end of the cafe car for them, and serve them that way. Don't recall if anyone reported the crew setting up times, or if it was just come when you're ready thing.


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## jack615 (Oct 8, 2009)

When I rode 448 coming back from New Orleans, they had us setup in the Cafe Car and served us our dinner, was a cold meal but wasnt bad at all. It was one seating as I recall if you wanted it, take advantage of it.

Jack


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## frj1983 (Oct 8, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?


After the trains were combined in Albany (in September), our Attendant invited us to go to the Dinette for dinner and that they were expecting us...as we walked in they asked if we were from the Boston Sleeper and then seated us.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 8, 2009)

frj1983 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm going to find interesting in a few weeks is having to walk from the 448 car all the way back to the diner. Will they even remember we're way up front and come take our reservation?
> ...


Mmm that would be 449 wouldn't it... And let's be clear. The "snack car" is a Horizon *Dinette*, the truncated diner made out of an Amfleet café is a *diner-lite*. The diner-lite is the car that offers full-service meals from NY, the dinette is the snack car that offers box meals to BOS pax.


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## MrFSS (Oct 8, 2009)

Going west on 449 sleeper will we get dinner in the diner after the trains combine in Albany? Or should we expect the cold meal in the café car?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Oct 8, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> Going west on 449 sleeper will we get dinner in the diner after the trains combine in Albany? Or should we expect the cold meal in the café car?


In May I was in the NY sleeper and we didn't have BOS people with us, dinner was served before ALB. I suppose there *might* have been a later dinner seating, but there were def. seatings that prohibited BOS pax.


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## AlanB (Oct 8, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> Going west on 449 sleeper will we get dinner in the diner after the trains combine in Albany? Or should we expect the cold meal in the café car?


You will get dinner in the Diner-Lite car after the trains combine in Albany Tom. Just know that it will be a late dinner, 7ish or so.


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## MrFSS (Oct 8, 2009)

AlanB said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > Going west on 449 sleeper will we get dinner in the diner after the trains combine in Albany? Or should we expect the cold meal in the café car?
> ...


Not a problem - what else will I have to do but enjoy the ride!


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## alanh (Oct 13, 2009)

I just had the dinner on 448. They came to the sleepers around 4:45pm to announce dinner. In the lounge they had put tablecloths on six of the tables and had us sit there. We had a choice of either chicken breast with green beans and cous-cous or steak medallions with potatoes and spinach salad. They were hot but obviously precooked and heated in the microwave.

For dessert there were strawberry and chocolate tiramisus.


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## BuzzKillington (Oct 14, 2009)

Only 7 weeks until I'm riding the LSL for the entire route! Someone needs to get those car restorers in gear to get the new dining cars on it by that time! The suspense is killing me!


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## cpamtfan (Oct 14, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Only 7 weeks until I'm riding the LSL for the entire route! Someone needs to get those car restorers in gear to get the new dining cars on it by that time! The suspense is killing me!



I feel like its going to happen when the schedule/dining menus change late this month, but definately not a guaruntee.


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## BuzzKillington (Oct 30, 2009)

Doesn't look like that happened... but I'm still hoping for something by Thanksgiving weekend so I can get some good meals!


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## cpamtfan (Oct 30, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Doesn't look like that happened... but I'm still hoping for something by Thanksgiving weekend so I can get some good meals!



Very slight chance that you will get one (the menu "refreshment" hasn't occoured yet, so that might be a sign of when its happening  (not saying that the meals on the LSL are bad, the crews do an exceptional job with what they have to work with)).


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## nferr (Oct 30, 2009)

cpamtfan said:


> BuzzKillington said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't look like that happened... but I'm still hoping for something by Thanksgiving weekend so I can get some good meals!
> ...


I was on the Lake Shore Oct.10 out of NY and the meal wasn't bad at all. I had the salmon and it was quite good.


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## cpamtfan (Oct 30, 2009)

Exactly. Some people might have different tastes, etc., but with only a steam table and two convection ovens and a very limited cooking space, the LSL crews deserve a full diner. Kudos has to go out to these crews who have made these cars on both the LSL and Card work  !


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## AlanB (Oct 30, 2009)

Not saying that things are simple on the Card, since it does do double duty as a cafe car too, but there is no comparison to trying to feed one sleeping car with a Diner-Lite car to trying to feed three sleeping cars.


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## girly25 (Nov 1, 2009)

so how did the rest of trip go?



nferr said:


> Im taking the Lake Shore this Saturday NYP-Chi. It would be great to have a real diner, but I'm not expecting it. The diner-lite food will be fine for one night.


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## Trogdor (Nov 1, 2009)

Last week, I saw a Heritage diner in the yard at CUS. The car looked nice and shiny, as if it had just been repainted (or, at the very least, very thoroughly washed).

Any ideas on why the car might have been there? I would think that if they wanted to deadhead the car from Beech Grove to New York, they would have run it on the Cardinal.


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## Donctor (Nov 1, 2009)

rmadisonwi said:


> Any ideas on why the car might have been there? I would think that if they wanted to deadhead the car from Beech Grove to New York, they would have run it on the Cardinal.


A few weeks ago I saw what looked like the Viewliner diner from the Roosevelt bridge. Either that, or there were two Viewliners in the yard, one of which had been poorly repainted (in the same manner as the diner).


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## nferr (Nov 1, 2009)

girly25 said:


> *so how did the rest of trip go?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for asking. I did a cross country and back trip on the Lake Shore-Zephyr-StarlightSouthbound)-Starlight(northbound)-EmpireBuilder-Capital Limited. Overall a great trip. Like I said the food on the Lake Shore was fine. I stuck to the french toast for breakfast into Chicago figuring the eggs would be so-so. The french toast was good. The Amtrak attendants on all the trains were great. Food was fine overall. I've learned on a long trip like this that the key for me is to vary my meals. Try something different each meal so you're not repeating the same meal over and over. I even liked the braised flatiron. The Empire Builder had the grilled flatiron and that was very good. The lunches have gotten much better overall also. I really enjoyed the meals in the Parlor Car on the Starlight. I had roomettes all the way and all the rooms were in very decent condition, including the Viewliner roomette on the Lake Shore, despite what's been posted on this forum about the supposed horrible condition of the Viewliners. Timekeeping was great on this trip with most trains being on time or a bit early. With one exception, and that was a big one. We were running ahead of a schedule on the Starlight LA to Portland when the engineer ran a red signal. This of course resulted in an emergency stop and the crew unable to contonue. It took three hours (middle of the night) befor a new crew arrived to replace the engineer/conducter which would have caused me to miss my connection in Portland. So I ended up on the usual Klamath Falls to Pasco bus trip instead to connect to the Builder. So I'm now waiting for my travel voucher to arrive. Amtrak simply said it would be for $175 plus some "extra" for my troubles.

So overall I'm very pleased - did over 8000 miles on the trains. Saw some unbelievable scenery. Ready to do it all again.


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## cpamtfan (Nov 2, 2009)

rmadisonwi said:


> Last week, I saw a Heritage diner in the yard at CUS. The car looked nice and shiny, as if it had just been repainted (or, at the very least, very thoroughly washed).
> Any ideas on why the car might have been there? I would think that if they wanted to deadhead the car from Beech Grove to New York, they would have run it on the Cardinal.



Just a recently overhauled diner on its way back from Beech Grove OR possibly the start of regular diner service on the LSL(I wouldn't hold my breath, though -_-



Amtking said:


> rmadisonwi said:
> 
> 
> > Any ideas on why the car might have been there? I would think that if they wanted to deadhead the car from Beech Grove to New York, they would have run it on the Cardinal.
> ...



Well it was already horribly painted before, but from what you could see, did it have the current paint and was shiny? Those are signs of a freshly outshopped car.(OR it might have somehow (slight chance) that it was a prototype sleeper, but there are less chances for that and how could someone miss it going to Chicago?)


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## BuzzKillington (Nov 2, 2009)

Is it normal practice to have a Diner sent west to Chicago and then sent east back to NY? It would probably make more sense to put it back on the Cardinal eastbound if it was for the NY-FLA trains. Maybe this is something to do with the new Diner Service!


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## cpamtfan (Nov 2, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> Is it normal practice to have a Diner sent west to Chicago and then sent east back to NY? It would probably make more sense to put it back on the Cardinal eastbound if it was for the NY-FLA trains. Maybe this is something to do with the new Diner Service!



Yes, it happens every few weeks.The cars are alwys transported via the LSL since it runs daily, while the Cardinal is not. There were even some instances when they put a freshly outshopped diner on the LSL (but that only happens sometimes, and on most occasions it is just put on the rear).


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