# Water availability in Coach



## June the Coach Rider (Feb 11, 2013)

As I have not traveled by train since 2003 or so, I have no clue about some things. Sorry if this has been asked before, but I could not find any info when searching.

Can someone tell me if there is potable water available in the coach car on the LSL, CZ and CS? Also, is it healty enough to drink? I would rather use water flavor packs than have to drag juice or soda with me. I know I can get ice in the lounge car, but want to save as much as possible for fun rather than ice, etc.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes, Potable Water is Available in the Coaches but as you say putting a Flavor Additive in it helps overcome the less than Thrilling Taste!

In Sleepining Cars Bottled Water is Avaialble for Free and if you Eat in the Diner Meals include Coffee,Tea,Milk or Water! Bottled Water in the Cafe Car is for Sale @ $2 or so a Bottle!


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## PacificStarlight (Feb 11, 2013)

Well last time i took the builder, we had water avalible in coach. Granted it was warm and tasted horrible. But that may be because the train sat 2 hours in the coach yard with engine trouble. It should be the same on the CS. Enjoy your 10 year reunion with Amtrak!


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## caravanman (Feb 11, 2013)

I tend to drink a lot of water, and usually buy a 1 gallon water from a nearby store before joining the train, if it is long distance. My biggest pet hate is being charged over the top prices for a tiny water bottle, at an airport or station! I think the train water dispenser would be my last resort, even drink budwieser before that!

Ed


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## BCL (Feb 11, 2013)

There is water and theoretically it will be from some municipal supply that's safe to drink.

That being said, there are way too many factors that will affect how palatable the water is. How long it's been there has been mentioned. The particular water supply (or combination of supplies) matters. When it's been last cleaned and/or disinfected matters.

The other thing is that the water dispensers are really only designed for those little paper cups. I don't think they really want people drawing down too much at a time so that all passengers have enough. You might be able to fill up a Brita bottle though. That might filter away some off tastes as long as it's not too bad.


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## ne52 (Feb 11, 2013)

I always bring my own and would use the on-board water as a backup. If the water is available, the taste is a little off. At extended stops, you can always refill the bottle from a fountain in the station. 

Depending on how you're getting to the train, sometimes I'll freeze a couple of bottles beforehand. They keep the others somewhat cool and when they're melted, just drink those.


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## June the Coach Rider (Feb 11, 2013)

ne52 said:


> I always bring my own and would use the on-board water as a backup. If the water is available, the taste is a little off. At extended stops, you can always refill the bottle from a fountain in the station.
> 
> Depending on how you're getting to the train, sometimes I'll freeze a couple of bottles beforehand. They keep the others somewhat cool and when they're melted, just drink those.


I was thinking about bringing a small six-pack hard side cooler, this would work well with the frozen water bottles. Maybe with all the posts recommendations, I will wait to get more water until I get to Chicago. I will bring enough or buy what I need on the train. I would rather spend a little than to drink something that might make me sick.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 11, 2013)

Does anyone know how often the water tanks and plumbing are thoroughly cleaned out?


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## PacificStarlight (Feb 11, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Does anyone know how often the water tanks and plumbing are thoroughly cleaned out?


I would hope they would flush the tanks during a turnaround. If not I hope at least once a month. the thought of them never being cleaned, or only being cleaned when out of service for extended periods of time disgusts me.


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## Blackwolf (Feb 12, 2013)

Bit of advice on the water tap for public use: let it flow for about 20 seconds before putting your cup beneath it and filling. You might get odd looks, but this flushes the water from the lines where it might have been sitting for a while, and gets rid of the vast majority of bad flavor. Works for me every time. Granted, I usually travel sleeper unless on a day trip, but I've used the tap plenty of times for a middle-of-the-night drink when I could not grab another bottle of water (attendant asleep, and water locked up in their room.) On the Superliner cars, there is a water tap both upstairs and downstairs, right in the center of the car next to the stairs. Also, it is chilled! Nice and cold.

Never gotten ill from drinking it. I'll vouch for its safety.


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## Meat Puppet (Feb 12, 2013)

The old New Jersey Transit bathroom cars had "NON-POTABLE WATER" signs over the sinks. I bet 50% of the train riding public has doesnt even know what "potable" means.


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## Ted Bell (Feb 12, 2013)

June said:


> I was thinking about bringing a small six-pack hard side cooler, this would work well with the frozen water bottles. Maybe with all the posts recommendations, I will wait to get more water until I get to Chicago. I will bring enough or buy what I need on the train. I would rather spend a little than to drink something that might make me sick.


Good idea. I think I'll do the same next month. Of course I will probably bring a few "potent potables" as well...


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 13, 2013)

I bring my own water as well too. I don't understand why Amtrak doesn't offer carbonated water on their trains. I mean, they have club soda, but their not allowed to sell it. Some cafe workers were like, "Tough crap, get a soda" Other's were nice and gave it to me free. All in all, flat water gives me a stomach ache. I'm sure those tanks never get "cleaned out." They are constantly pumping them with potable water and being drained empty by passengers. I'm sure the water swishing and slapping back and forth hitting the sides of the tank are good enough to Amtrak to "keeping it clean." I just don't see them pumping those huge tanks with sanitized water and then draining it all down the drain and flushing it several times with clean water (a normal procedure for cleaning standard water tanks) every train turnaround.

Sani-rinse, 1-step, I know they also have wash agents that don't require it to be rinsed out. And although the company says that and it's obviously FDA approved. I just don't like the thought of rinsing a water tank with chemicals and not washing/flushing it out.


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## Shortline (Feb 13, 2013)

The water they put in it comes from municipal sources, which is to say chlorinated to win a few degrees of pool water, so, even if there is crud in the tanks, it's probably generally safe. (Google for some pipe camera inspection video's, to see what the water coming out of your tap at home is traveling through on the way to your house......80 yo pipes get nasty.....yet we drink it) however, just like my RV, which I clean and sanitize 2 times a year, I tend not to drink from holding tanks. While it won't hurt you, I just don't like the taste, and unlike my own RV tank, I don't know how sanitary the filler hose is, how old the tank is, etc. just a personal preference, but I tend not to drink holding tank water as a preference.


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## railiner (Feb 13, 2013)

Meat Puppet said:


> The old New Jersey Transit bathroom cars had "NON-POTABLE WATER" signs over the sinks. I bet 50% of the train riding public has doesnt even know what "potable" means.


It may say that.....but I would bet that they do put potable water into those tanks. I am not certain, but I believe the USPHS monitors the sanitation of those tanks. Also on airplanes and passenger vessels......


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## BCL (Feb 13, 2013)

Shortline said:


> The water they put in it comes from municipal sources, which is to say chlorinated to win a few degrees of pool water, so, even if there is crud in the tanks, it's probably generally safe. (Google for some pipe camera inspection video's, to see what the water coming out of your tap at home is traveling through on the way to your house......80 yo pipes get nasty.....yet we drink it) however, just like my RV, which I clean and sanitize 2 times a year, I tend not to drink from holding tanks. While it won't hurt you, I just don't like the taste, and unlike my own RV tank, I don't know how sanitary the filler hose is, how old the tank is, etc. just a personal preference, but I tend not to drink holding tank water as a preference.


Chlorine might stay in the water for a couple of days, when it will complete gassing out. An old trick for ornamental fish was to let the tap water sit for a couple of days before tossing it in the tank. Otherwise the fish could die quickly from chlorine poisoning. You can smell the chlorine in a pool, and of course more chlorine has to be added to replace the stuff that gasses out.

Now chloramine is far more persistent and harder to remove. However, it has less of an offensive odor. I used to work in a city that had an excellent water supply, but the taste of chlorine dominated the water. It was easy enough to remove the taste with a carbon filter. Chloramine has less of an odor, but I prefer to leave the water in a Brita pitcher overnight so that more of the chloramine can be removed.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 13, 2013)

railiner said:


> Meat Puppet said:
> 
> 
> > The old New Jersey Transit bathroom cars had "NON-POTABLE WATER" signs over the sinks. I bet 50% of the train riding public has doesnt even know what "potable" means.
> ...


I wouldn't hold your breath. I've seen the stations have two sets of hoses, respectively marked "potable" and "non-potable" most noticeably in Denver, which I'll be pulling into in 20 minutes. Ill see if I can get some pictures in.


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## railiner (Feb 16, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Meat Puppet said:
> ...


You can be assured that any water put into the passenger cars is 'potable'. The 'non-potable' water may be used for washing of equipment, or in the past, used to fill locomotive tenders and later steam generators. The water is actually all the same....the only difference is the hoses, nozzles, and other apparatus used, being in FDA compliance.


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## BCL (Feb 16, 2013)

railiner said:


> KrazyKoala said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
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I'm wondering what could be truly non-potable water. I'm thinking maybe untreated water from a well or local creek. Golf courses often use partially treated "gray water".

Still - that takes a lot of infrastructure. It might make sense for a huge water user like a golf course. Some municipalities have invested in separate gray water piping for water plants or washing cars, but it still isn't that common.


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## crescent2 (Feb 16, 2013)

I think that was what railiner meant--the water is the same, but the hoses, etc. aren't treated the same.


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## MiRider (Feb 16, 2013)

crescent2 said:


> I think that was what railiner meant--the water is the same, but the hoses, etc. aren't treated the same.


True.

Next time you're in a garden center or buying a new hose, read the packaging - I've always seen an advisory against using them for drinking water.


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## rusty spike (Feb 16, 2013)

JoanieB said:


> crescent2 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that was what railiner meant--the water is the same, but the hoses, etc. aren't treated the same.
> ...


Correct. The green garden hoses are not for drinking water. The white hoses sold by RV and camping supply dealers are intended for potable water. Does Amtrak use these to fill their tanks? I don't know.


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## oldtimer (Feb 17, 2013)

First of all Amtrak has an FDA consent decree that they must comply with.

1: All potable(drinking) water hoses are specially made sanitary hoses, colored white.

2: All watering points for potable water must be specifically designated

3: All potable watering points must be equipped with a vacuum breaker to prevent backflow

4: All potable hoses must be kept off the ground and capped when not in use

5: All potable water hose nozzles must be equipped with a metal guard that prevents the nozzle

from touching the ground if dropped.

6: All potable watering points are inspected periodically by Amtrak, federal, or local officials.

7: All employees that are involved in any portion of potable watering must be specially trained

8: All potable tanks are drained on, at the minimum of a 30 day period. Please not that the tanks

will self drain if the if the car is left off power for an extended time. usually as soon as the water

cools to 38 degrees F. When the tanks are drained and refilled a specific sanitation procedure

is followed.


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## daveyb99 (Feb 17, 2013)

caravanman said:


> I tend to drink a lot of water, and usually buy a 1 gallon water from a nearby store before joining the train, if it is long distance. My biggest pet hate is being charged over the top prices for a tiny water bottle, at an airport or station! I think the train water dispenser would be my last resort, even drink budwieser before that!
> Ed


Just curious: how much should AMTRAK charge for a bottle of water they 1) have to buy 2) have to deliver to the train 3) haul around until someone buys it and 4) not lose money on the deal


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## rusty spike (Feb 17, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> First of all Amtrak has an FDA consent decree that they must comply with.1: All potable(drinking) water hoses are specially made sanitary hoses, colored white.
> 
> 2: All watering points for potable water must be specifically designated
> 
> ...


Thank you oldtimer for clearing that up...

I occasionally drink the on-board water in the coaches and never doubted it was safe to drink. And it taste as good as, if not better, that what comes out of my tap at home.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 17, 2013)

daveyb99 said:


> caravanman said:
> 
> 
> > I tend to drink a lot of water, and usually buy a 1 gallon water from a nearby store before joining the train, if it is long distance. My biggest pet hate is being charged over the top prices for a tiny water bottle, at an airport or station! I think the train water dispenser would be my last resort, even drink budwieser before that!
> ...


$2.25 is a little silly. Water should never cost the same as soda. Maybe they wouldn't be so much if they didn't give so many away to sleeping car passengers. I never drink it anyways and always bring it to the SSL for someone who wants it to have it for free.


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## railiner (Feb 17, 2013)

oldtimer said:


> First of all Amtrak has an FDA consent decree that they must comply with.1: All potable(drinking) water hoses are specially made sanitary hoses, colored white.
> 
> 2: All watering points for potable water must be specifically designated
> 
> ...


I also thank you for that detailed answer. There was once, I believe in Trains magazine, a photo of a carman taking a drink from the hose on a hot day between watering a couple of cars...amplifying the adage of not putting anything into the tank that you would not drink yourself.....


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## crescent2 (Feb 18, 2013)

I guess if he didn't touch the nozzle with his mouth, it's no worse than a drinking fountain.  (which I try not to use)

Don't take the water bottles away from the sleepers--water is my preferred drink so I do drink them!


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## VentureForth (Feb 18, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> daveyb99 said:
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> > caravanman said:
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100% supply and demand. Free, potable water is available to all passengers. Though it may smell and taste a bit 'funny', it is safe to drink. If someone want to buy bottled water, they will either pay the price or not.
That all being said, I have seen them fill the water tanks. Nothing like an airliner which has a totally closed system (cap on the receptacle and nozzle, removed, attached, and then a ball valve or something similar actuated), they basically turn on a hose and fill a pipe that they unscrew the cap from. Water splashes all around the outside, but that doesn't get into the system. Also unknown is whether an additional water filter is used between the tank and the water dispensers onboard (probably not - they're expensive).

As for turn around, I believe that the potable water is replaced pretty often - I don't think it ever sits more than a day. The same water source is used for the toilets as for the water fountains (don't freak out, even the most expensive airliners do this - it's a one-way system).

I do what was said early on - buy a 99c bottle of water (or brink your own water bottle from home) and use Mio or some other additive to taste.


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## TimePeace (Feb 18, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> $2.25 is a little silly. Water should never cost the same as soda. Maybe they wouldn't be so much if they didn't give so many away to sleeping car passengers. I never drink it anyways and always bring it to the SSL for someone who wants it to have it for free.


When I review the prices, even low bucket prices, for sleeping car tickets - I don't see anything being given away for free.

That said, I agree the cost of those small bottles in cafe cars does seem a bit much. It in general strikes me as strange that sometimes, bottled water costs more than gasoline - and not only on trains.

But it demonstrates that often the cost of products is not so much in the production of them, but rather in the packaging and handling and shipping and storage.


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## NW cannonball (Feb 19, 2013)

Maine Rider said:


> KrazyKoala said:
> 
> 
> > $2.25 is a little silly. Water should never cost the same as soda. Maybe they wouldn't be so much if they didn't give so many away to sleeping car passengers. I never drink it anyways and always bring it to the SSL for someone who wants it to have it for free.
> ...


And when one considers that the water in the bottle is just municipal treated water from some tap for potable water somewhere else - costing less than a penny per gallon - paying a dollar or more per liter for a bottle of the same stuff that's free and safe in USA, EU, Japan, -- just seems crazy.

But if the convenience is what one needs, or if one is a paranoid food-fearer -- ??

The only reason I carry a couple liters of water (freely available from some municipal supply at start point ) on the train - is - that sometimes the pot wat on board runs out.

If I was on an airplane carrying any liquid through the "sterile barrier" would be *forbidden - *probably *because - *the "liquids not allowed rule" generates huge profits for the airlines.

Anywhere in the first world - including ships, trains, planes, but not automobiles - drinking water is safe and not too bad tasting (except a few places where the safe water stinks - like Leon Iowa or La Push Washington - where the very safe and very stinking water has been sterilized by deep magma - but people pay to soak in the stinking stuff)

When the pot water tank runs out - that's when the spare couple liters makes the bearer happy.

Take care - take whatever water you like on the train -- it will not be confiscated at the checkpoint.


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## Shanghai (Feb 19, 2013)

That's a good reason to take the train - you can take your bottle of water onboard

without being confiscated by security!!


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 19, 2013)

Is the toilet water potable? Does the water reserve share in the same tank as the drinking water? I know on my boat they are separate. The water for the toilet actually comes from the ocean so it doesn't waste your supply of clean water.


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## jsreeves (Feb 19, 2013)

Hmm, I drank out of garden hoses for years as a kid and it never bothered me any.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 19, 2013)

jsreeves said:


> Hmm, I drank out of garden hoses for years as a kid and it never bothered me any.


Are you sure about that? :giggle:

I too have drank out of garden hoses and, as some on here will attest to, I'm completely insane.


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## BCL (Feb 19, 2013)

NW cannonball said:


> Maine Rider said:
> 
> 
> > KrazyKoala said:
> ...


I wouldn't worry about safety per se, but some municipal well water is absolutely foul. I used to live in a city with mostly water from wells within the city. Toilets had a crusty ring. Bubbles would take minutes to clear.? It was a little bit yellow. It smelled like sulfur. Anyone washing a car made sure to dry it quickly. It was safe to drink, but even a pitcher filter would become ineffective quickly with all the calcium and magnesium.
Now some municipal water sources are excellent. Where I live we get water from a river in the Sierra Foothills. Much of the Bay Area gets Hetch Hetchy water. The water from local watersheds Marin Water District are also good, although reliable supply is an issue.

No commercial bottling operation is going to sell water straight from the tap. It's going to be filtered where the cost of filtration is several times that of the municipal water itself. Most of the big names go through reverse osmosis, carbon, ozone, and UV. That kind of processing can turn foul well water into something drinkable. And of course spring water doesn't come from a tap.

Still, a lot of restaurants serve reverse osmosis water for nothing extra. I've heard some even use it to supply fountain drinks. It doesn't cost that much as long as it doesn't need to be bottled or transported.

I used to work in the Sacramento area where the local water came from Folsom Lake. The water was actually quite good but was chlorinated so heavily such that it smelled like pool water. A simple carbon filter actually worked well to control the odor,


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## SP&S (Feb 19, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Is the toilet water potable?


Ask the next service dog you see on board, I'm not brave enough to find out. :blink: :blink:


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## MiRider (Feb 19, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Is the toilet water potable? Does the water reserve share in the same tank as the drinking water? I know on my boat they are separate. The water for the toilet actually comes from the ocean so it doesn't waste your supply of clean water.


I thinks it's safe to assume that the water that comes out of the faucets in the restrooms is safe to drink.

The same little drinking cups that are at the spigots in the coach cars are also in every restroom.

It's possible they use the regular hose to fill the water tanks used for flushing, if there is such a thing, but the water, more than likely, comes from the same source and no one will get sick or die drinking water that comes out of a garden/regular hose.


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## VentureForth (Feb 19, 2013)

As for flushing water being the same source of the drinking water, yes it is indeed true. Next time the toilets run out of water for flushing, you'll notice that you can't get any water from the drinking spigot. :wacko:


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## NW cannonball (Feb 20, 2013)

You mean Amtrak is wasting drinkable water to flush their lousy *toilets ? *

This demands a congressional *hearing *-- (actually Mica might do one on this subject ) :unsure:


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## VentureForth (Feb 20, 2013)

I think the problem is that precious flushing water is being wasted by people filling their water bottles!


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 20, 2013)

Well, that's probably why the toilets are not prefilled with water. (Which I think they should be, to prevent crap from sticking to the bowl.)


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 20, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Well, that's probably why the toilets are not prefilled with water. (Which I think they should be, to prevent crap from sticking to the bowl.)


Or maybe so the water doesn't slosh around and get the seat and floor wet? I believe this is standard for toilets on moving vehicles.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2013)

My main issue is with the little cups. I haven't been on a long distance train for a while, but at least on the Superlines, they had the cone-shaped cups which you can't put down at all since they go down to a point. This pretty much forces the person at the water dispenser to stand there and drink. Wouldn't want the seat right there.


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## guest (Feb 20, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Well, that's probably why the toilets are not prefilled with water. (Which I think they should be, to prevent crap from sticking to the bowl.)


I take toilet paper and put it in several strips it in the bowl, helps with the sticking problem.


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## AlanB (Feb 20, 2013)

KrazyKoala said:


> Well, that's probably why the toilets are not prefilled with water. (Which I think they should be, to prevent crap from sticking to the bowl.)


There are multiple reasons from lack of available water storage, sloshing, as well as storage for that which gets flushed. That's why.


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## KrazyKoala (Feb 20, 2013)

guest said:


> KrazyKoala said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that's probably why the toilets are not prefilled with water. (Which I think they should be, to prevent crap from sticking to the bowl.)
> ...


Haha, I do the same exact thing, except with the tissue paper in the despenser. Works faster.


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