# Baltimore Freight Derailment, Fire



## ALC Rail Writer (May 28, 2013)

Heard in CNN some AnchorBrunnette talking about a "cargo trail derailment" and "black smoke and fire in some industrial part of town" in Baltimore.

The airhead not withstanding any real "news" about this? Looks nasty.

Note... another instance of the media calling them "cargo" trains..., what gives?


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## rrdude (May 28, 2013)

Derailed Freight Train on Fire in Baltimore

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Derailed-Freight-Train-on-Fire-in-Baltimore-209211651.html


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## amamba (May 28, 2013)

Will this affect amtrak at all?


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## Ryan (May 28, 2013)

No, nothing Amtrak runs there.


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## CHamilton (May 28, 2013)

amamba said:


> Will this affect amtrak at all?


Apparently not. MARC (which is on the Amtrak NEC at that point) says:



> Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 2:59pm
> 
> CSX freight train derailment (about 2:15 pm) near Rosedale, MD and Baltimore City/County Line does not involve or affect MARC or Amtrak trains at this time. (MARC Trains operate south of this point.) The incident appears to involve a CSX freight train. Camden Line may be affected with delays later today as CSX shuffles previously scheduled freight trains to accommodate MARC commuter trains.


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## Ryan (May 28, 2013)

Just remember, you can't spell *C*rash, *S*mash, e*X*plode, without *CSX*!!!


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## FriskyFL (May 28, 2013)

Conspiracy theorists on CNN story discussion board already linking this incident to the Metro North derailment and the collision in Missouri.


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## Ryan (May 28, 2013)

Evening news led with this - they're saying that it started when the train struck a garbage truck at a grade crossing. The driver of the garbage truck was taken to the hospital and is expected to survive.

No other injuries noted.

Firefighting has not yet began, as they can't figure out what is in the cars on fire.

15 cars on the ground, 2 cars burning.


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## OlympianHiawatha (May 28, 2013)

The news slinger on _*WNBC-New York *_also just referred to the train as a "Cargo Train."


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## Ryan (May 28, 2013)

Yeah, that's what the local news here keep calling it.

Can't have everything...


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## MrFSS (May 28, 2013)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> The news slinger on _*WNBC-New York *_also just referred to the train as a "Cargo Train."


Well - in all fairness - it was carrying some type of cargo!


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## Devil's Advocate (May 28, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Evening news led with this - they're saying that it started when the train struck a garbage truck at a grade crossing.


What a surprise.

Garbage is what's driving these trucks.


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## PaulM (May 28, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > The news slinger on _*WNBC-New York *_also just referred to the train as a "Cargo Train."
> ...


I doubt this is what media types are referring to, but the term cargo is used in Europe to describe what we would call freight trains.

Rail Cargo Austria


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## The Davy Crockett (May 28, 2013)

PaulM said:


> I doubt this is what media types are referring to, but the term cargo is used in Europe to describe what we would call freight trains.
> 
> Rail Cargo Austria


Maybe the reporting has been outsourced to someone writing the news item from Albania?


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## rrdude (May 28, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Evening news led with this - they're saying that it started when the train struck a garbage truck at a grade crossing.
> ...



Are you insinuating what I think you are?


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## Devil's Advocate (May 29, 2013)

rrdude said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


You'd have to explain what you're thinking before I could confirm or deny.


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## fairviewroad (May 29, 2013)

No need to beat around the bush. *Devils Advocate* is saying that the truck driver is "garbage."

So, let's get that out there: John Alban Jr, a retired Baltimore County firefighter who owns a waste collection company near the scene of the crash,

is "garbage."

Thanks for bringing moral clarity to this discussion, Mr. Advocate.

[EDITED to remove hyperlink.]


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## Ryan (May 29, 2013)

Here's the link you were probably trying to post:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-28/news/bal-train-derails-in-white-marsh-20130528_1_crash-site-hazardous-material-train-derails



> Authorities identified the driver of the truck as John Alban Jr., a retired Baltimore County firefighter who owns a waste collection company near the scene of the crash. The Essex man was listed in serious condition at Maryland Shock Trauma Center Tuesday night, a hospital spokeswoman said. No other serious injuries were reported.


I'll wait to pass judgement on Mr. Alban, but there are precious few reasons to be on the tracks in front of a train and there's no shortage of unqualified truck drivers that can't seem to keep from putting their trucks in front of them (or into the side of them).


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## fairviewroad (May 29, 2013)

Correct, that was the link. Thanks.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 29, 2013)

fairviewroad said:


> No need to beat around the bush. *Devils Advocate* is saying that the truck driver is "garbage."
> So, let's get that out there: John Alban Jr, a retired Baltimore County firefighter who owns a waste collection company near the scene of the crash,
> 
> is "garbage."
> ...


We give pedestrians who trespass hell.

We give pedestrians who commit suicide hell.

We give cars and light trucks that try to beat the train hell.

Yet the crew and the occupants of the train are unlikely to be seriously harmed by any of that.

The one group that *routinely* risks serious harm and even death for the crew and passengers are commercial vehicle drivers.

Barring truly rare and exceptional circumstances there is really no reason for a commercial vehicle to be on the tracks at the same time as a train. None.

Time and again we read about commercial vehicles fouling crossings and risking everyone's lives over and over and over again.

Why on earth should the worst offenders be let off the hook? Because one of them was a former fire fighter? Please.

People who voluntarily risk the lives and livelihood of others due to their own negligence deserve to be looked down upon.

They deserve to be mocked and criticized and hopefully punished for their ignorance.

It's time to stop pretending all threats are equal or that being a fire fighter makes you a better truck driver.


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## Ryan (May 29, 2013)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's time to stop pretending all threats are equal or that being a fire fighter makes you a better truck driver.


OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and throw a little water on this one (both terrible puns fully intended)...

Presumably, part of learning to be a firefighter should include learning how to operate a fire truck safely. In theory, that should make you a better truck driver.

On the whole, I agree with you though - I'm just waiting until it's confirmed that something beyond Mr. Alban's control (brake failure, truck stalling at exactly the wrong time, etc) didn't cause the accident before throwing the blame on him.


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## fairviewroad (May 29, 2013)

Who said that being a fire fighter makes you a better truck driver? I was simply stating a couple of facts

[as reported by the media] about the individual behind the wheel of the truck.

[And don't lump me in with the "we" crowd. I don't do any of those things, at least not on this message board.]

Yes, the truck driver made a mistake. Possibly a criminal one, though that hasn't been determined yet. Certainly a mistake that

will open him to civil damages. I will and am criticizing him for his stupid action [pending, as *Ryan* notes, a factual determination

that he was at fault].

But we don't know a single thing that man did in his life prior to yesterday afternoon other than what can be surmised based on

the brief info about him in the media. Obviously you and I have different opinions about whether an individual can be described

as "garbage" based on a single mistake they made.


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## crescent2 (May 29, 2013)

Some commercial drivers do put train crew and passengers at risk, no argument there.

But some of us can't help but wince when a garbage truck driver (or anyone else) is called "garbage." It's just the way we are, just differences in people.


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## Devil's Advocate (May 29, 2013)

Ryan said:


> On the whole, I agree with you though - I'm just waiting until it's confirmed that something beyond Mr. Alban's control (brake failure, truck stalling at exactly the wrong time, etc) didn't cause the accident before throwing the blame on him.


It's possible that there was a one-in-a-million worst case break failure or engine stall that left the garbage truck on the tracks right as a train was approaching. Even though that's exceedingly unlikely let's go ahead say breaks did fail or the engine did stall. Perhaps this garbage truck was in tiptop shape with proper maintenance and records, but if it wasn't then isn't a breakdown still on the hands of the owners and operators anyway? The way I see it, you'd need a crossing with no lights, no signage, and no horn to exonerate the truck driver. Negligent truck drivers continue to benefit from our misplaced concern and compassion as we feign shock and surprise every time we hear about yet another truck driver failing in his duty to properly pilot and maintain his truck. I'm done pretending I'm shocked.


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## Ryan (May 29, 2013)

I agree, I just want to make sure that this wasn't a one-in-a-million happenstance.

That said, the local news (WUSA-9) just reported that the NTSB announced that the truck made its way onto the track just 3 seconds before impact - so we're looking at either driver error or a brake failure that prevented him from stopping.


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## AlanB (May 29, 2013)

Ryan said:


> Presumably, part of learning to be a firefighter should include learning how to operate a fire truck safely. In theory, that should make you a better truck driver.


Well one would hope that were indeed true; but then I recall the story of the firefighters in Michigan IIRC, who in responding to the scene of an incident parked their fire truck on the tracks.  Whereupon it was promptly hit by a train, an Amtrak train IIRC. Happened a few years back so I'm sure that there are posts on here regarding said incident. I seem to recall that the fire truck was pretty well totaled, although I don't think that there was too much damage to the train.

Now perhaps that was something unique to that fire department, but somehow unfortunately I rather doubt it.


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## Ryan (May 29, 2013)

Ha, I had completely forgotten about that one.

Here's the thread:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/31342-%23353-hits-a-detroit-fire-truck-at-crossing


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## CHamilton (May 29, 2013)

I had forgotten about that one, too. That's why tweets like this one are necessary, unfortunately.



> Amtrak_CAMay 25, 5:30pm via BufferSafety Tip # 345: Trains have the right of way 100% of the time over emergency vehicles, cars, the police and pedestrians. #BeTrackSmart


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## afigg (May 31, 2013)

There is a surveillance video of the collision with the truck that has been released. Baltimore Sun webpage with the video. Pretty clear from the video that the truck driver did not stop at the crossing. Also lucky to be alive. If you are patient, wait for the flash at around 6:30 in the video.


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## AmtrakBlue (May 31, 2013)

Heard an ABC news last night that the truck & the company that owns it both have bad records for safety or something like that. Did a quick search on my iPod for a link but didn't find one.


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## Ryan (May 31, 2013)

afigg said:


> There is a surveillance video of the collision with the truck that has been released. Baltimore Sun webpage with the video. Pretty clear from the video that the truck driver did not stop at the crossing. Also lucky to be alive. If you are patient, wait for the flash at around 6:30 in the video.


saw that on the news last night. Utterly amazing.


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