# Assigned seats on the train?



## KillerCroconaw (Feb 8, 2022)

To my knowledge, I believe assigned seats only happen on certain trains, or is it completely random? I’ve only been assigned seats twice, and I’m pretty sure they were both trains from Chicago to Pittsburgh, I believe. The other times, I was not assigned a seat. I’ve looked around and it seems to be only happen on certain trains, but I’m here to clarify. My next trip, I’m taking 29 and 421.

By assigned seats, I mean where they give you a number and you sit down on said seat, most likely next to someone.
Thank you.


----------



## caravanman (Feb 8, 2022)

As train popularity has increased over the last 15 years, I have noticed the assignment of seats more often. It can be annoying to be crammed into a crowded coach, and see the next coach half empty...
Mainly happens so that passengers for a particular destination are grouped together, and only one train door is opened, especially at night.
This does not answer your question as such, I think actual seat assignment and whether to enforce it is at the discretion of the Amtrak staff at boarding.


----------



## amtrakpass (Feb 8, 2022)

I understand the preferences of both crew and passengers might be assigning seating but for me I prefer general boarding and letting everyone find their own seat which seems to be the quickest mode of boarding by far. Then after the train is on the move and the conductors are collecting tickets they can move individuals around if there is an issue or need to adjust the seating for different reasons. Most of the time I think it works better in the end that way. There is actually a long time between Amtrak stops compared to commuter trains for example and it should be no problem as far as having enough time to do it that way. Except maybe overnight when it would be preferable to assign a seat on a crowded train if there are only so many open so everyone isn't disturbed. 
I realize the trend has been for more assigned seating but even on the Acela's that have assigned seating now it never fails that several people are in the wrong car/wrong seat and need to be told to move when the conductor comes by anyway.
of course there is a need for the conductors to assign passengers to a specific car sometimes, nothing wrong with that. It's just the assigning of specific seats in the car I feel is unnecessary most of the time


----------



## caravanman (Feb 8, 2022)

I much prefer to choose my own seat, as I am sure most folk do.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 8, 2022)

Seats or at least specific cars are generally assigned in Coach on Long Distance trains but not on Corridor trains (although there are some exceptions.) I think they will sometimes take requests for specific seats (or at least specific types of seats, like preferences on side of the train) or will sometimes let you switch your seat once onboard. They try to assign seats to ensure people can sit together and also to keep people traveling to the same destinations close by to ease the process of getting everyone off and (especially at night) limit noise.


----------



## VentureForth (Feb 9, 2022)

I've experienced this and not experienced this, sometimes on the same train. You can certainly request with the attendant, but they primarily do this for loading based on destination. Usually, I get "You're going where? Ok - go to your right..." or something like that.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 9, 2022)

I would like to see Amtrak go to a seat reservation system where you could pick your seat at the time of ticket purchase as is the case for most airlines and for a long time on many European trains. It would save the stress of having to get to the front of the line to grab a good seat especially on the NEC. If Amtrak wanted to allocate specific coaches for certain destinations that could be built into the system.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 9, 2022)

Seat assignment can also vary from station to station. So at the major stops it's more of a select your own seat but then at all smaller stops, they assign you seats.

It's definitely nice for families to be assigned seats together and not have to search for seats and potentially have to spread out over multiple areas of the car. As a solo passenger if I get assigned an aisle seat I just spend most of my time in the lounge.


----------



## Sidney (Feb 9, 2022)

I was on the Capitol Limited between Pittsburgh and Chicago and back last week. Both overnight trips. The last few times I did this I was assigned a seat with a seatmate. Thankfully,there was open seating on both trains last week and I ended up having both seats to myself.

I really wish if the train isn't full ,solo travelers can get both seats. What is frustrating is when passengers going to a specific destination are put in one car,regardless of how full the train is. I believe I am capable of knowing when to get off.


----------



## joelkfla (Feb 9, 2022)

Sidney said:


> I really wish if the train isn't full ,solo travelers can get both seats. What is frustrating is when passengers going to a specific destination are put in one car,regardless of how full the train is. I believe I am capable of knowing when to get off.


But you can't get off if nobody opens the door. And they might not wait for you to find the car with the open door.


----------



## amtrakpass (Feb 9, 2022)

As far as doors opening, if all doors will not open, the crew can also make an announcement saying which car doors(first 3, last 2 etc..) will or will not open as is common practice on many commuter or corridor trains. If the PA doesn't work or is hard to hear the conductor can always walk through the train making the announcement.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 9, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> As far as doors opening, if all doors will not open, the crew can also make an announcement saying which car doors(first 3, last 2 etc..) will or will not open as is common practice on many commuter or corridor trains. If the PA doesn't work or is hard to hear the conductor can always walk through the train making the announcement.



Or... on a Long Distance train, they can assign you a specific car where they know the doors will open. There are many differences between a Long Distance train and a commuter train that would make assigning specific cars and seats a very smart idea for both the crew and the majority of long-distance rail passengers.

It's a bit of a catch-22 for us railfans. We want the trains to be full so they keep running, but we also want the trains to be empty so we can pick our favorite seats!


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> As far as doors opening, if all doors will not open, the crew can also make an announcement saying which car doors(first 3, last 2 etc..) will or will not open as is common practice on many commuter or corridor trains. If the PA doesn't work or is hard to hear the conductor can always walk through the train making the announcement.


They try to not make announcements late at night as people are sleeping or at least generally don't want to hear announcements that late. Usually the crew comes through and individually wakes people up, so they find keeping people for a specific stop in the same area makes the process easier. They also often try to keep people with stops in the middle of the night in separate cars from people with stops during the day (especially those going to further away points) to minimize noise throughout the night for those who are going to be onboard until later in the day and will be wanting to sleep.


----------



## Trollopian (Feb 9, 2022)

I travel between DC and Pittsburgh on the Capitol Limited and in DC am always, always assigned a seat. As others note, the cars are more or less divided by destination. Not only am I assigned to sit next to a stranger, but the conductor won't even accommodate a polite request for a window (or, I suppose, aisle) seat. This is why I head to the observation car at first opportunity. If there is one. Obviously trains are less crowded since the pandemic, but the boarding drill is unchanged.

I've long thought that putting a uniform on people brings out any latent petty authoritarianism. Not on everybody, it depends on the underlying personality; but often.


----------



## jis (Feb 9, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> As far as doors opening, if all doors will not open, the crew can also make an announcement saying which car doors(first 3, last 2 etc..) will or will not open as is common practice on many commuter or corridor trains. If the PA doesn't work or is hard to hear the conductor can always walk through the train making the announcement.


The one caveat is that you would not want to be making announcement on the PA system every so often in the middle of the night. So the night stops have to be handled without requiring public announcements.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

At some stations, I've also seen them pre-assign seats prior to boarding. For example, at Los Angeles Union Station, you can go to the Amtrak Information Booth (in the Great Hall, closer to the concourse) and they'll assign you a seat. I have personally experienced them assigning seats upon arrival at the platform though once they start boarding.


----------



## joelkfla (Feb 9, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> As far as doors opening, if all doors will not open, the crew can also make an announcement saying which car doors(first 3, last 2 etc..) will or will not open as is common practice on many commuter or corridor trains. If the PA doesn't work or is hard to hear the conductor can always walk through the train making the announcement.


Let's say you were on a Superliner and getting off at a station that doesn't do checked baggage. So you would like to go downstairs, drag your luggage up the stairs, maneuver it between cars, and then drag it back downstairs?


----------



## WWW (Feb 9, 2022)

Aside from Bedroom - Roomettes - and sleeping accommodations selecting seats for the rest of train at the time of reservation would be nice
with the cavet of consistency in the consist of train equipment.
When boarding an airplane you are dealing with only one unit - and - not like multiple coaches on a train where confusion could be possible - - -
I.E. Seat 32B but in which of two three or more coaches ?
Assigned seating is reassuring of having a spot reserved and especially so if one is familiar with seating layout - near a door - or place with more
useable space be it under seat or overhead compartment. 
Of more concern is if traveling other than solo having seating in the same area as the rest of your party - adjacent - across aisle - front/behind - etc.

And then there is the issue of freeloaders using an empty seat as a place for luggage and worse yet a foot rest !


----------



## amtrakpass (Feb 9, 2022)

The main point I was trying to make is not that assigned cars or seats never make sense, but that there is a time and place when they do and times they do not. For instance I took the crescent last year when it was not very busy and although I was in the sleeper I could see they were checking every ticket on the platform before boarding and assigning specific seats in one coach car even though another car was closed off and empty. Boarding at intermediate stops takes much longer if you do it this way when it is not always needed. There are some cases where it is a good idea such as night stops or destinations but to check tickets on the platform and assign seats should be the exception not the rule in my opinion in order to make the station stops relatively quick and the crew can concentrate on people who really do need assistance such as the disabled and elderly.


----------



## rs9 (Feb 9, 2022)

Sectioning coach cars to ensure overnight arrivals and limiting noise is a sensible policy. There's probably just a better way of doing it. On the Wolverine out of Chicago, you are sent from the boarding line to a particular car or cars based on your destination. If that's still not enough, signage could be posted within cars - this half of the car is for travelers to XXX city. In that manner, people can still choose their seats within their defined sections. Since tickets are checked on board, conductors can move folks around who didn't seat themselves in the right place.


----------



## jis (Feb 9, 2022)

In many large rail systems there is a mix of "Reserved" and "Unreserved" cars, where Reserved usually means assigned seat, and Unreserved means truly unreserved, i.e. as many as are able to pile in can do so. Amtrak might want to restrict the number of people to be equal to the number of seats even in the "Unassigned Seat" rather than "Unreserved" space on the train.

But then often there are "prestige" trains that are "All Reserved" and the bedlam of Unreserved is reserved for the lowlier trains.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 9, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> For instance I took the crescent last year when it was not very busy and although I was in the sleeper I could see they were checking every ticket on the platform before boarding and assigning specific seats in one coach car even though another car was closed off and empty.



I saw a coach passenger kicked off the Crescent in Atlanta for arguing about the empty and closed car. The Conductor said "If you don't like how I run my train, you aren't going to ride it" after he continued to argue with her that he should be able to sit in the empty, closed-off coach.

My understanding is that the coach was being saved for passengers boarding in Charlotte NC.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Sectioning coach cars to ensure overnight arrivals and limiting noise is a sensible policy. There's probably just a better way of doing it. On the Wolverine out of Chicago, you are sent from the boarding line to a particular car or cars based on your destination. If that's still not enough, signage could be posted within cars - this half of the car is for travelers to XXX city. In that manner, people can still choose their seats within their defined sections. Since tickets are checked on board, conductors can move folks around who didn't seat themselves in the right place.


Expanding on this, could they also in addition to having specific sections for destinations reserve off seating to ensure groups, or at least a parent with a small child, can sit together? Or at that point is the amount of seating available to choose from for singles or small groups so limited that just reserving seats is easier?


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 9, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> Expanding on this, could they also in addition to having specific sections for destinations reserve off seating to ensure groups, or at least a parent with a small child, can sit together? Or at that point is the amount of seating available to choose from for singles or small groups so limited that just reserving seats is easier?



I’ve seen them do this. Reserving seats for parties of 2, and for 3+. Still you’ll have solo passengers arguing that “the seats are empty why can’t I sit here, I don’t want to share a seat!”


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I’ve seen them do this. Reserving seats for parties of 2, and for 3+. Still you’ll have solo passengers arguing that “the seats are empty why can’t I sit here, I don’t want to share a seat!”


This is all a difficult situation because if you prioritize trying to give people an empty seat next to them seating groups together is harder, but if you prioritize sitting groups together, giving people an empty seat next to them is harder


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 9, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> This is all a difficult situation because if you prioritize trying to give people an empty seat next to them seating groups together is harder, but if you prioritize sitting groups together, giving people an empty seat next to them is harder



It shouldn’t be difficult. Nobody should expect an empty seat next to them. It doesn’t matter if Amtrak has 3 empty coaches on the train, if the passenger load only fills one coach, there is no reason Amtrak should be expected to allow passengers to spread out. 

Families traveling together should be able to expect to be seated together on the train. Especially considering children and family members with special needs.


----------



## WWW (Feb 9, 2022)

And then there is the station boarding platform - La Crosse WI is one with only useable space for boarding two cars -
unlike Chicago with its mile long platform --- well maybe seem so but boarding the EB 9-10 cars with last 3 cars and
the SSL going to Portland splitting at Spokane - the cars behind the baggage car are a trek and a half from the waiting lounge
The EB seems to be set up with specific cars positioned for specific stops - this otherwise a second stop maybe
required at stations like La Crosse which doesn't happen all that often
With weather being its nastiness no one wants to trek the train length to get to the right car 
Airlines don't have this problem because there are limits to stretching an airframe


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It shouldn’t be difficult. Nobody should expect an empty seat next to them. It doesn’t matter if Amtrak has 3 empty coaches on the train, if the passenger load only fills one coach, there is no reason Amtrak should be expected to allow passengers to spread out.
> 
> Families traveling together should be able to expect to be seated together on the train. Especially considering children and family members with special needs.


I agree with you, but people complain when there a lot of open seats being saved for further down the route (or even the same stop) and they're forced into a small section of the car with a seatmate.


----------



## jebr (Feb 9, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It shouldn’t be difficult. Nobody should expect an empty seat next to them. It doesn’t matter if Amtrak has 3 empty coaches on the train, if the passenger load only fills one coach, there is no reason Amtrak should be expected to allow passengers to spread out.



While no one should expect to have an empty seat next to them, I think it's customer-hostile to not allow passengers to spread out if available seating capacity allows and isn't needed downline. If Amtrak has the required staff on board to allow those to be used, they should be open for us unless there is a particular reason to keep it closed for expected passenger volume downline (and even then I'm a bit iffy on it.) If anything, that's even more important now as social distancing is still kind-of-sort-of a thing, and there's definitely a desire for people to want to be able to spread out a bit and not have a seat mate unless need be.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

jebr said:


> While no one should expect to have an empty seat next to them, I think it's customer-hostile to not allow passengers to spread out if available seating capacity allows and isn't needed downline. If Amtrak has the required staff on board to allow those to be used, they should be open for us unless there is a particular reason to keep it closed for expected passenger volume downline (and even then I'm a bit iffy on it.) If anything, that's even more important now as social distancing is still kind-of-sort-of a thing, and there's definitely a desire for people to want to be able to spread out a bit and not have a seat mate unless need be.


There are many reasons seats might be assigned a certain way. However, there should be attempts to spread people out. Even in normal times, just assigning people seats in exact sequence (filling up each row one at a time with no breaks in the sequence, etc.) or sticking people in one section of the car when there is no good reason to do so shouldn't happen.


----------



## Mailliw (Feb 9, 2022)

Offer a reserved 2:1 premium seating option, problem solved for any not wanting to sit next to a stranger.


----------



## Sidney (Feb 9, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> Offer a reserved 2:1 premium seating option, problem solved for any not wanting to sit next to a stranger.


There are very few of the 2 to 1 seat configurations. If every long distance train could have business class with 2 to 1 that would be ideal. Most people do not relish sitting and sleeping next to a stranger overnight. Sometimes I'll take the LSL instead of the CL from Chicago to be guaranteed a single seat in BC. Only five of them. Good to be one of the first to board from the Metropolitan Lounge.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> Yea
> There are many reasons seats might be assigned a certain way. However, there should be attempts to spread people out. Even in normal times, just assigning people seats in exact sequence (filling up each row one at a time with no breaks in the sequence, etc.) or sticking people in one section of the car when there is no good reason to do so shouldn't happen.





Mailliw said:


> Offer a reserved 2:1 premium seating option, problem solved for any not wanting to sit next to a stranger.


They do on some trains. Maybe this could be a premium product on more trains?


----------



## WWW (Feb 9, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> Offer a reserved 2:1 premium seating option, problem solved for any not wanting to sit next to a stranger.


In other words a double occupancy charge - still yet a train conductor may have the authority to override that to avoid unsafe SRO


----------



## WWW (Feb 9, 2022)

Hopefully rail travel will not reach the point like air travel of unruly passengers -
Perhaps a "no-rail travel ban" may be a solution to that when it occurs.
Arguing with a conductor still does not have quite the leverage as messing with airline crews - - -


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

WWW said:


> In other words a double occupancy charge - still yet a train conductor may have the authority to override that to avoid unsafe SRO


I think the suggestion was basically to offer an option similar to the Business Class option offered on some trains where there is a single seat on one side. Although I suppose allowing people to purchase the second seat when possible works too in some cases (obviously making sure they're not cutting back on capacity when they don't need to)


----------



## jis (Feb 9, 2022)

The procurement of new generation equipment might come with a ready made solution to this problem. The regional procurement almost certainly come with 2x1 BC. As for whether Amtrak will go for across the board BC on LD service remains to be seen, with the exception of the Palmetto which will likely have it since it will use a regional ICT (Inter City Trainset)


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 9, 2022)

jis said:


> The prcorement of new generation equipment might come with a ready made solution to this problem. The regional procurement almost certainly come with 2x1 BC. As for whether Amtrak will go for across the board BC on LD service remains to be seen, with the exception of the Palmetto which will likely have it since it will use a regional ICT (Inter City Trainset)


The new Venture cars, at least in the Midwest, have 2-1 in Business








First look: Siemens Venture coaches debut for Amtrak (updated) - Trains


CHICAGO — “Give yourself a big round of applause,” conductor Erik Newsom enthusiastically announced over the public address system of Amtrak train No. 303 as it left Chicago for St. Louis on Tuesday morning. “You’re the very first to ride Amtrak’s new Midwest cars!” Clapping followed, but that...




www.trains.com


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 9, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It's a bit of a catch-22 for us railfans. We want the trains to be full so they keep running, but we also want the trains to be empty so we can pick our favorite seats!


This.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 9, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I’ve seen them do this. Reserving seats for parties of 2, and for 3+. Still you’ll have solo passengers arguing that “the seats are empty why can’t I sit here, I don’t want to share a seat!”


Just one thing to consider about "parties of 3" : who gets the empty seat of the 4-seats? I know, I was once that odd person out on a ride on the Silver Star. There were two seat pairs occupied by a mom and her 2 kids. I was assigned the odd seat out, which turned out to be the seat next to the mom, so it worked out OK. The kids were OK, they were in the 5-8 year old range and were pretty well behaved. I actually had the window seat, which in one way was nice, but also meant that every time I wanted to use the restroom or eat, I had to climb over the mom to get out of my seat, which was a little awkward. I did spend a lot of time in the cafe car, which shows that having lounge space on a fully packed train is a good idea.

As a solo coach traveler, I have to accept that I can't have two seats together. Perhaps if Amtrak had more coaches available, they could sell seat pairs to solo travelers as a sort of makeshift "business class" option, yet still have enough of an inventory of seats that they can accommodate family groups, even on busy trains. By the way, on the NEC, if I travel with my family, I expect that we won't be sitting together. If we do, we just thank our good fortune.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 9, 2022)

Mailliw said:


> Offer a reserved 2:1 premium seating option, problem solved for any not wanting to sit next to a stranger.


Unless all the single seats get filled up by the time you make your reservation, which has happened to me quite frequently on the Acela.


----------



## DaveW (Feb 10, 2022)

it could be related to helping to make sure you get off where you are supposed to, especially for long distance and in middle of night.


----------



## Joe from PA (Feb 10, 2022)

This past Fall, we took the Acela to Boston because Amtrak ha a 40% Off special. Usually we take the NE Regional. Few people get off in Philadelphia, so the 2 of us cannot usually get seats together. But in 1 1/2 hours we get to NYC, and most people get off. We can then select "good window" seats that are together.
On the Acela trip we found a person in one of our seats, both ways, and had to ask them to move. Both coming and going, we were in poor seats window-wise (between windows).
So in this case, assigned seats were not appreciated.


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 11, 2022)

I simply do not get why assigned seating and grouping by destination is an issue.

Prior to Amtrak, a "reserved seat" on a long distance train meant an assigned seat. The systems used to accomplish that were manual and handled by marking up car charts in reservations bureaus, but the principle is the same. IT systems can be developed that can replicate it, it is not really that difficult of a problem.

The railroads managed to group people and get them off at their destination stations with their manual reservations systems. It is a red herring of an objection.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 11, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I simply do not get why assigned seating and grouping by destination is an issue.
> 
> Prior to Amtrak, a "reserved seat" on a long distance train meant an assigned seat. The systems used to accomplish that were manual and handled by marking up car charts in reservations bureaus, but the principle is the same. IT systems can be developed that can replicate it, it is not really that difficult of a problem.
> 
> The railroads managed to group people and get them off at their destination stations with their manual reservations systems. It is a red herring of an objection.


I think the main objection is that sometimes seats are assigned in ways that aren't optimal (assigning seats in exact numerical order, ignoring seating requests like window or aisle in instances where they could easily be honored, etc.) There should be more of an effort to try to offer people more of a choice of seating while still meeting other goals (grouping people to the same destination together, allowing groups and especially families with small children to sit together, etc.)


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 11, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> I think the main objection is that sometimes seats are assigned in ways that aren't optimal (assigning seats in exact numerical order, ignoring seating requests like window or aisle in instances where they could easily be honored, etc.) There should be more of an effort to try to offer people more of a choice of seating while still meeting other goals (grouping people to the same destination together, allowing groups and especially families with small children to sit together, etc.)


All of those could be supported with a modern reservations system, including car assignment by destination. As I said, it really is not a tough problem technically.

Back in the day, the manual reservation systems included size of party and members of the same party were seated together.

While I can see objections to a poor implementation by Amtrak's crack IT department, none of the issues I have seen in this thread could not be addressed by a competently designed system. As I said, the problem isn't very hard.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 11, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> All of those could be supported with a modern reservations system, including car assignment by destination. As I said, it really is not a tough problem technically.
> 
> Back in the day, the manual reservation systems included size of party and members of the same party were seated together.
> 
> While I can see objections to a poor implementation by Amtrak's crack IT department, none of the issues I have seen in this thread could not be addressed by a competently designed system. As I said, the problem isn't very hard.


Amtrak already has the ability to allow people to select seats in advance (as seen on some trains like in the NEC and in Palmetto Business Class, for example - although I don't think Amtrak offers this ability in Coach anywhere.) This hasn't been extended to other trains that use assigned seating. If they could implement this systemwide (on trains with assigned seating) and allow people to choose where they want to sit, people would be able to reserve a more desirable seat in advance. Obviously this doesn't guarantee not having a seatmate when you don't have to, although I suppose people self-selecting would likely try for an empty pair if possible. Takes us back to the allowing people to book two seats if possible idea. The main potential drawbacks I could see with allowing seat selection in advance would be changes in consist due to load, bad orders, etc. and the possibility of someone selecting a desirable seat for a short ride and blocking people going most if not all the way from selecting the seat.


----------



## Gemuser (Feb 11, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> While I can see objections to a poor implementation by Amtrak's crack IT department, none of the issues I have seen in this thread could not be addressed by a competently designed system. As I said, the problem isn't very hard.


Or even simpler Amtrak could simply license a reservation system from DB, SBB, FS, OS or SNCF all of which have systems that can cope with everything Amtrak has to cope with, except possibly having only one price for a sleeping compartment of each type plus x number of tickets but as zephyr17 says not very hard problems.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 11, 2022)

The only thing that is unreasonable is not honoring a simple request like a window or aisle seat. 

Assigning seats by car based on destination, and assigning specific seats within a car is not unreasonable at all.


----------



## WWW (Feb 12, 2022)

Fortunately there are No middle seats only aisles and windows although some of the new cars are
experimenting experiencing reduced seat width - still better than the airlines in sardine class !


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> All of those could be supported with a modern reservations system, including car assignment by destination. As I said, it really is not a tough problem technically.
> 
> Back in the day, the manual reservation systems included size of party and members of the same party were seated together.
> 
> While I can see objections to a poor implementation by Amtrak's crack IT department, none of the issues I have seen in this thread could not be addressed by a competently designed system. As I said, the problem isn't very hard.


Actually, to be fair to Amtrak, I have been using their assigned seating for Acelas and NER business class, and I have had almost no problems. Well, once, I couldn't get the app to send me to the change seat page, but the seat it assigned me wasn't so bad, so I didn't really try too hard to figure it out. 

The only suggestion I have for them is to provide the ability to change the seat before one buys the ticket. 

Basically, pre-assigned seating means that if you book at the last minute and the train is very full, you have to accept the risk of getting a less than optimal seat. But this happens with non-assigned seating, too, as I know from long experience riding the Northeast regional and getting on at Baltimore. At least you're guaranteed some sort of seat. Back when the northeast trains had unreserved seating, you could end up standing for the whole trip.

Basically, if one wants their preferred seat, it's best to either book early and/or make sure to ride the train when it's not going to be busy. In any event, Amtrak is pretty clear in stating that passengers don't have any sort of entitlement to have 2 seats to themselves. You're always going to have the chance that you'll have a seatmate if you're traveling by yourself. It's best to just accept that as part of the charm of the train riding experience. And, to be honest, despite all the horror stories I've read about unpleasant seatmates, I've never been stuck with such a person. I guess it might happen in the future, but I'll deal with it when it happens. Some of the worst "unpleasant passenger" experiences I've had have been when I've had 2 seats to myself and the optimal window view, but some idiot a few rows away ruins the ride for some reason or another. Anyway, it rarely happens, most Amtrak riders are well-behaved, and the rides are uneventful from that perspective.


----------



## TheCrescent (Feb 12, 2022)

By not having assigned seats, Amtrak is losing out on the ability to charge additional fees for great seats. The first row of Amfleet I coaches has amazing legroom and Amtrak could charge more for that. But fortunately it doesn’t.


----------



## WWW (Feb 12, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> By not having assigned seats, Amtrak is losing out on the ability to charge additional fees for great seats. The first row of Amfleet I coaches has amazing legroom and Amtrak could charge more for that. But fortunately it doesn’t.


The airlines s-e-a-t---s-p-a-c-i-n-g is a revenue issue - - - - - Amtrak is missing out here.
Would not require an additional service attendant unless some other service is offered i.e. snacks drinks etc.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 12, 2022)

Another variance: I just boarded the Coast Starlight in Business Class and I was permitted to pick any open seat in the Business Class car


----------



## WWW (Feb 13, 2022)

A complexity of issue with seats being reserved between intermediate points i.e. Cardinal New York to Chicago - Huntington WV to Cincinnati OH
The NYC to HUN is available as well as the CIN CHI portion but not the entire trip - airlines don't have this problem so much as flights are point to
point between hubs and destination. Airlines don't operate flights with 25 stops from coast to coast as they did back in the 30s and 40s and even
then seats were not specifically assigned. In the mid 60s airlines offered seat selection at the time of check in - first come first served - later as the
reservation systems were enhanced seat selection was part of the booking process. Now in the business and first class cabins when you book a
reservation you also select a specific seat and even the type of meal (chicken steak shrimp vegan) you want inflight. An airline flight from Chicago
to Los Angeles takes 3-4 hours the CZ takes almost 3 days - not exactly apples oranges mangos pineapples potatoes for comparison.
Booking a specific seat in any event is desirable instead of hanging from a SRO strap in a moving object - comfort zone priority one !


----------



## Gemuser (Feb 13, 2022)

From WWW Reply55:


> A complexity of issue with seats being reserved between intermediate points i.e. Cardinal New York to Chicago - Huntington WV to Cincinnati OH
> The NYC to HUN is available as well as the CIN CHI portion but not the entire trip - airlines don't have this problem.
> ...
> An airline flight from Chicago to Los Angeles takes 3-4 hours the CZ takes almost 3 days - not exactly apples oranges mangos pineapples potatoes for comparison



NONE of this is a real problem! ALL of these problems have been solved both before & with computers. As I suggested in reply 45 just license a system from a railroad [or more likely an IT firm] that has SOLVED these problems. None of these problems are unique to Amtrak, yes it will require tweeking/adjustment to exactly meet Amtrak's needs but that should not be a major project.


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 13, 2022)

WWW said:


> A complexity of issue with seats being reserved between intermediate points i.e. Cardinal New York to Chicago - Huntington WV to Cincinnati OH
> The NYC to HUN is available as well as the CIN CHI portion but not the entire trip - airlines don't have this problem so much as flights are point to
> point between hubs and destination. Airlines don't operate flights with 25 stops from coast to coast as they did back in the 30s and 40s and even
> then seats were not specifically assigned. In the mid 60s airlines offered seat selection at the time of check in - first come first served - later as the
> ...


As I said before, that really is not a difficult IT problem. I can sketch out a relational database structure that supports multiple on/offs as an entity-relationship diagram almost off the top of my head.

Also, as I pointed out in an earlier post, the railroads managed it on reserved seat trains in their manual reservations systems. The unassigned "reserved" seat is an Amtrak creation. Prior to Amtrak, reserved seats were, by definition, assigned.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> As I said before, that really is not a difficult IT problem. I can sketch out a relational database structure that supports multiple on/offs as an entity-relationship diagram almost off the top of my head.
> 
> The unassigned "reserved" seat is an Amtrak creation.


Let's not forget Southwest Airlines.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Feb 13, 2022)

My question is, WHY doesn't Amtrak do this on the Michigan services. Is it because of all the stops? Does this make the programming more difficult?


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 13, 2022)

WWW said:


> My question is, WHY doesn't Amtrak do this on the Michigan services. Is it because of all the stops? Does this make the programming more difficult?


I think seat assigning is more common on Long Distance. Corridor trains generally don't have Coach Attendants and there aren't usually people getting off in the middle of the night.


----------



## Burns651 (Feb 13, 2022)

VentureForth said:


> I've experienced this and not experienced this, sometimes on the same train. You can certainly request with the attendant, but they primarily do this for loading based on destination. Usually, I get "You're going where? Ok - go to your right..." or something like that.


I don't want to sound pedantic, but unless you're actually being directed where to go by a sleeping car or long distance coach attendant, it's best to refer to those persons by their title-- conductor or assistant conductor. They're in charge of the train, responsible for the safety of everyone and have much more responsibility than any attendants.


----------



## TheCrescent (Feb 13, 2022)

Burns651 said:


> I don't want to sound pedantic, but unless you're actually being directed where to go by a sleeping car or long distance coach attendant, it's best to refer to those persons by their title-- conductor or assistant conductor. They're in charge of the train, responsible for the safety of everyone and have much more responsibility than any attendants.



A lot of people--even Amtrak regulars--don't know the specifics of who does what; they just know that there are Amtrak employees onboard the train. Similarly, people who fly a lot may not know the specifics of specific airline employee titles among the crew in the cabin. For example, I've flown over 600,000 miles in the past years and I still don't know exactly what a "purser" is, and a lady in the room across from mine on Amtrak asked the person scanning tickets if she would also make the bed for nighttime travel, which was a faux pas, but it's not up to the customer to automatically know such things.


----------



## joelkfla (Feb 13, 2022)

Burns651 said:


> I don't want to sound pedantic, but unless you're actually being directed where to go by a sleeping car or long distance coach attendant, it's best to refer to those persons by their title-- conductor or assistant conductor. They're in charge of the train, responsible for the safety of everyone and have much more responsibility than any attendants.


My only coach trip was on the Silver Star, and it *was *the coach TA who was directing passengers and helping them find seats. Is that not normally their job?


----------



## Anderson (Feb 13, 2022)

So, I'd note that in my experience in the UK, in a lot of cases not _all_ seats are reserved. You can reserve a specific seat or just take pot luck when you board. An all-reserved model runs the risk of "seat wastage" where people don't pick their seats "optimally"...

Take a train with two seats going A-B-C. You have one passenger who wants to travel A-B, one B-C, and one A-C. Ideally, the A-B and B-C pax pick the same seat. In reality, for various reasons you might have them pick different seats, and so the A-C passenger sees a sold-out train.

This isn't strictly an academic exercise...there are at least a few dozen threads over the years of folks unable to book a through roomette but able to book a "split" one, changing rooms at Toledo or Wolf Point or Denver, and that's with the computer doing the assignments (which makes some sense since roomettes are arguably interchangable unless you _need _to be on one level or the other).


----------



## neroden (Feb 13, 2022)

It's not a simple IT problem. It is a solvable IT problem, but Amtrak IT is understaffed, has been poorly managed in the past, and has significantly simpler problems which they've failed to solve, so.... they kind of need to up their IT game.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 13, 2022)

Anderson said:


> So, I'd note that in my experience in the UK, in a lot of cases not _all_ seats are reserved. You can reserve a specific seat or just take pot luck when you board. An all-reserved model runs the risk of "seat wastage" where people don't pick their seats "optimally"...
> 
> Take a train with two seats going A-B-C. You have one passenger who wants to travel A-B, one B-C, and one A-C. Ideally, the A-B and B-C pax pick the same seat. In reality, for various reasons you might have them pick different seats, and so the A-C passenger sees a sold-out train.
> 
> This isn't strictly an academic exercise...there are at least a few dozen threads over the years of folks unable to book a through roomette but able to book a "split" one, changing rooms at Toledo or Wolf Point or Denver, and that's with the computer doing the assignments (which makes some sense since roomettes are arguably interchangable unless you _need _to be on one level or the other).


Yeah, I think there is a need to reconcile both allowing people to have seats they prefer and not making booking trips harder.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 13, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> My only coach trip was on the Silver Star, and it *was *the coach TA who was directing passengers and helping them find seats. Is that not normally their job?



Yes. It’s rare for Conductors to assign seats, it’s usually the attendants but on occasion Conductors will. I recall a conductor giving me a seat assignment in Vancouver for exemple. I got lucky with a window seat! Beautiful sunrise over the mountains.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 13, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> My only coach trip was on the Silver Star, and it *was *the coach TA who was directing passengers and helping them find seats. Is that not normally their job?


I would think it is. On all my coach trips on long-distance trains when I was assigned a seat (at the platform as we were boarding), it was the coach attendant who did that. Last spring, I boarded the Capitol Limited at Pittsburgh, and it was the conductor who told me to just go to such and such a car, but he didn't assign me a seat. (I don't think there was a coach attendant.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 13, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> A lot of people--even Amtrak regulars--don't know the specifics of who does what; they just know that there are Amtrak employees onboard the train. Similarly, people who fly a lot may not know the specifics of specific airline employee titles among the crew in the cabin. For example, I've flown over 600,000 miles in the past years and I still don't know exactly what a "purser" is, and a lady in the room across from mine on Amtrak asked the person scanning tickets if she would also make the bed for nighttime travel, which was a faux pas, but it's not up to the customer to automatically know such things.


There are some cases where the person directing you might not even be a conductor. Sometimes you may just happen to ask another crew member or Amtrak employee on the platform for direction, or sometimes you'll even be greeted by someone other than the conductor on the platform


----------



## VentureForth (Feb 14, 2022)

Burns651 said:


> I don't want to sound pedantic, but unless you're actually being directed where to go by a sleeping car or long distance coach attendant, it's best to refer to those persons by their title-- conductor or assistant conductor. They're in charge of the train, responsible for the safety of everyone and have much more responsibility than any attendants.


I've also had times where the conductor tells me which car to board then the coach attendant tells me which seat. So my original post isn't wrong, as also evidenced by other subsequent posts.

One thing about Amtrak is that there seems to be absolutely no consistency in operating procedures, much less customer service.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 14, 2022)

Anderson said:


> So, I'd note that in my experience in the UK, in a lot of cases not _all_ seats are reserved. You can reserve a specific seat or just take pot luck when you board. An all-reserved model runs the risk of "seat wastage" where people don't pick their seats "optimally"...
> 
> Take a train with two seats going A-B-C. You have one passenger who wants to travel A-B, one B-C, and one A-C. Ideally, the A-B and B-C pax pick the same seat. In reality, for various reasons you might have them pick different seats, and so the A-C passenger sees a sold-out train.
> 
> This isn't strictly an academic exercise...there are at least a few dozen threads over the years of folks unable to book a through roomette but able to book a "split" one, changing rooms at Toledo or Wolf Point or Denver, and that's with the computer doing the assignments (which makes some sense since roomettes are arguably interchangable unless you _need _to be on one level or the other).


The problem with having only some seats reserved is then you need a way to indicate a seat is reserved so that passengers who didn't reserve a specific seat know where they can sit. For example if I reserve a seat from PHL to WAS how does someone travelling from NYP to BAL know not to sit in it? Or is it up to me to kick them out when I board in PHL? That could be unpleasant.


----------



## joelkfla (Feb 14, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> The problem with having only some seats reserved is then you need a way to indicate a seat is reserved so that passengers who didn't reserve a specific seat know where they can sit. For example if I reserve a seat from PHL to WAS how does someone travelling from NYP to BAL know not to sit in it? Or is it up to me to kick them out when I board in PHL? That could be unpleasant.


I've seen some videos where there is a light-up "reserved" indicator next to the seat number over the seat. IIRC in one case it even showed the passenger's name.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 14, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I've seen some videos where there is a light-up "reserved" indicator next to the seat number over the seat. IIRC in one case it even showed the passenger's name.


And if you don't have the fancy computerized light-up indicator, the conductor or coach attendant can just put a seat check over the seat. I saw that in Britain in the 1980s.


----------



## Barb Stout (Feb 14, 2022)

Is it possible that sometimes an Amtrak agent at the station assigns seats? Several times traveling from Albuquerque, coach passengers were asked to line up in the station itself and get seat assignments from an Amtrak staffer sitting next to the door to the platform. I think this even happened while the train was still pulling into the station. Those times there seemed to be a lot of people getting on the train (for ABQ). On one of them, I counted 60 coach passengers which I think is a lot for ABQ (but not having traveled all that often by train, I could be wrong). And at least one time when I was traveling coach, I just got on the train and found a seat myself. On that journey, that car was probably about half full. So maybe it depends on how full the train is as to whether seats are assigned or not? I think this would be a good argument against always allowing people to pick their own seats during the reservation process.


----------



## caravanman (Feb 14, 2022)

I had seats assigned inside LAX station itself for the Coast Starlight, but it starts from there.

Not sure how seats could be assigned from the station for a train mid-route, as some seats would already be occupied?


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 14, 2022)

caravanman said:


> I had seats assigned inside LAX station itself for the Coast Starlight, but it starts from there.
> 
> Not sure how seats could be assigned from the station for a train mid-route, as some seats would already be occupied?


Are they just allocated certain seats and the crew just has to make sure they're empty at Albuquerque? The SWC in both directions has a long stop in Albuquerque so they could just assign them after the train is close enough and they have a better idea. Has anyone seen them assign people to an already filled seat?


----------



## caravanman (Feb 14, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> Has anyone seen them assign people to an already filled seat?



Most times seats are assigned by the train crew at the coach door, they already know which seats are vacant. 
I once heard an announcement that the train was "over booked" and that folk in the viewing car needed to return to their seats immediately, unoccupied seats would be reassigned to standing passengers.
Some sort of one-off glitch I expect...


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 14, 2022)

caravanman said:


> Most times seats are assigned by the train crew at the coach door, they already know which seats are vacant.
> I once heard an announcement that the train was "over booked" and that folk in the viewing car needed to return to their seats immediately, unoccupied seats would be reassigned to standing passengers.
> Some sort of one-off glitch I expect...


I think occasionally people have been told to just find space in the lounge / Cafe / floor and they'll try to find space at the next stop, etc. Depends on the situation I think.


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 14, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> Is it possible that sometimes an Amtrak agent at the station assigns seats? Several times traveling from Albuquerque, coach passengers were asked to line up in the station itself and get seat assignments from an Amtrak staffer sitting next to the door to the platform. I think this even happened while the train was still pulling into the station.



Albuquerque is a crew change so that was most likely a conductor.

With Albuquerque being a major stop, it’s likely that there is an entire coach dedicated for Albuquerque bound passengers so the conductor knows that coach will be empty. 

A system that could work... 
The Albuquerque bound coach becomes the LAX bound coach and the conductor in the Albuquerque station assigns car and seat number to LAX bound passengers and car numbers only to passengers headed to other destinations, allowing the coach attendants to seat those passengers.


----------



## Michigan Mom (Feb 16, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> The problem with having only some seats reserved is then you need a way to indicate a seat is reserved so that passengers who didn't reserve a specific seat know where they can sit. For example if I reserve a seat from PHL to WAS how does someone travelling from NYP to BAL know not to sit in it? Or is it up to me to kick them out when I board in PHL? That could be unpleasant.


That would be the easiest part to solve, probably.. they would need to install small seat numbers on the overhead racks "17AB" etc. Then just like the airlines if someone is sitting in your seat when you board you can just point that out


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Feb 16, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> they would need to install small seat numbers on the overhead racks "17AB" etc.



I think all Amtrak coaches have seat numbers already. Unless I’m being forgetful again!


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Feb 16, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> That would be the easiest part to solve, probably.. they would need to install small seat numbers on the overhead racks "17AB" etc. Then just like the airlines if someone is sitting in your seat when you board you can just point that out


The coaches already have seat numbers on the rack. And the letters are A & C and D & F.
And good luck pointing it out if someone is sitting in your seat. That has happened to me twice. The first time, on an Acela, the conductor didn’t seem like he wanted to move the guy. Since I’m flexible I just asked for another seat. This was during the 50% capacity time.
The 2nd time I just took the seat in back of my assigned seat. I would have told the conductor when he came by, but the person got off at the next stop before the conductor came through. I just moved to my assigned seat at that time.


----------



## Train3414 (Feb 16, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> That would be the easiest part to solve, probably.. they would need to install small seat numbers on the overhead racks "17AB" etc. Then just like the airlines if someone is sitting in your seat when you board you can just point that out


On trains in Europe with some seats reserved, there will often be a digital indicator showing whether and when each seat is reserved. This could work to let people know whether they should sit in a particular seat (or plan to move) or not. Would require a pretty significant IT upgrade on Amtrak's part though.


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Feb 16, 2022)

Train3414 said:


> On trains in Europe with some seats reserved, there will often be a digital indicator showing whether and when each seat is reserved. This could work to let people know whether they should sit in a particular seat (or plan to move) or not. Would require a pretty significant IT upgrade on Amtrak's part though.


And require passengers to know/remember to look. I have a bad habit of not looking for seat checks when I board the NERs.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 16, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> The coaches already have seat numbers on the rack. And the letters are A & C and D & F.
> And good luck pointing it out if someone is sitting in your seat. That has happened to me twice. The first time, on an Acela, the conductor didn’t seem like he wanted to move the guy. Since I’m flexible I just asked for another seat. This was during the 50% capacity time.
> The 2nd time I just took the seat in back of my assigned seat. I would have told the conductor when he came by, but the person got off at the next stop before the conductor came through. I just moved to my assigned seat at that time.


I once had half of a couple sitting in my assigned seat. They gave me a hard time about it, so I found another seat. When the conductor came by, I told him about it, and a little later, I saw the couple moving down they car, they told me they were going to move to coach so they could sit together. I presume the conductor had some words with them. The result was that I was able to reclaim my assigned seat, plus I didn't have anybody sitting next to me.


----------



## jis (Feb 16, 2022)

My friends in UK will possibly help with the detail, but AFAR in UK there the reserved seats are tagged with a paper slip with the details of the reservation that sticks out of the seat back and is clearly visible. So there is absolutely no confusion about which seats are reserved.

In the more recent electronic indicator equipped trains the same information is displayed on a little electronic display above the seat sometimes with an indicator LED which is lighted if the seat is reserved and not if it is not.

All this seems to work just fine.


----------



## districtRich (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm sure someone else remembers better than I do, but when the current Acela was rolled out 20 years ago you could actually view a seatmap on the Amtrak website and choose your seat... for first class at least. And I even think the trains did/do have those LCD digital displays (although now they're blank) above the seats that were supposed to show which seats were available/reserved when you boarded. I don't think this lasted long at all of course. Here in Finland you can book your preferred seat ahead of time online so it's not like this is rocket science.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Feb 17, 2022)

districtRich said:


> I'm sure someone else remembers better than I do, but when the current Acela was rolled out 20 years ago you could actually view a seatmap on the Amtrak website and choose your seat... for first class at least. And I even think the trains did/do have those LCD digital displays (although now they're blank) above the seats that were supposed to show which seats were available/reserved when you boarded. I don't think this lasted long at all of course. Here in Finland you can book your preferred seat ahead of time online so it's not like this is rocket science.


Amtrak assigns Seats in FC Acela when you book , and you can look @ a diagram of the seats and change your seat yourself on your computer or phone!


----------



## daybeers (Feb 17, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Amtrak assigns Seats in FC Acela when you book , and you can look @ a diagram of the seats and change your seat yourself on your computer or phone!


Right, but stupidly _after_ you pay the absurd price or use a coupon.


----------



## Joe from PA (Feb 17, 2022)

Another thing you can do if seats are NOT assigned is avoid the "sun side" if you plan on looking out of the window. Our last Acela trip had us sun-side both ways.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 17, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> Another thing you can do if seats are NOT assigned is avoid the "sun side" if you plan on looking out of the window. Our last Acela trip had us sun-side both ways.


That was always a problem taking a morning train from Boston to New York as you wanted to sit on the ocean (East) side but then you got the full sun especially in winter.


----------



## MARC Rider (Feb 17, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> That was always a problem taking a morning train from Boston to New York as you wanted to sit on the ocean (East) side but then you got the full sun especially in winter.


Unfortunately, because the coastline (and the rail line) runs east-west through Connecticut, even if you take an afternoon train from Boston, you get the sun in your face if you sit on the scenic side. It seems it might be good to pray for cloudy weather.


----------



## Amtrak709 (Feb 17, 2022)

Help me again understand the reasoning for not assigning seats in advance--especially on the 14 Amtrak LD trains. I am sure the technology exists (much like Acela first class and all sleepers) and I realize there is always a cost associated with maintaining such a database. Back in the 1960's when I on occasion helped out the C&O agent in Williamsburg--and long before existing computer technology--we assigned reserve seats on many of the SAL and ACL Florida trains as well as north on the RF&P by calling Richmond where the manual "diagrams" were maintained. Seems to have worked then. Just a curiosity for further discussion.


----------



## districtRich (Feb 17, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Amtrak assigns Seats in FC Acela when you book , and you can look @ a diagram of the seats and change your seat yourself on your computer or phone!



Yes, but back then you could actually look at the seat map online before buying the ticket and choose a seat. And they still don't use the digital displays that are above each seat. For some reason they took away assigned seating after having it 20 years ago before finally rolling it out again recently.


----------



## zephyr17 (Feb 17, 2022)

districtRich said:


> Yes, but back then you could actually look at the seat map online before buying the ticket and choose a seat. And they still don't use the digital displays that are above each seat. For some reason they took away assigned seating after having it 20 years ago before finally rolling it out again recently.


Forget it, Jake. It's Amtrak.


----------



## PerRock (Aug 17, 2022)

In all my years of riding Amtrak, I've only been assigned a seat twice (not counting the Acela). And it was my understanding that getting an assigned seat is not the norm. I've seen many a reference here & on r/Amtrak of people helping new folks by telling them it's first come first serve seating. However I recently corrected someone to that matter on r/Amtrak who stated that all Amtrak "reserved coach" seating is assigned, it's just done by the conductor when you board. To my surprise I've been down-voted and had a number of people tell me that I am wrong and that you cannot pick your own seat on Amtrak. Which got me wondering, now admittedly I've not traveled much on the train since the pandemic, has the seating situation changed & is all seating now assigned?

peter


----------



## AmtrakBlue (Aug 17, 2022)

On the regionals here on the east coast it’s every man & woman for them selves, except for Business Class.
I have not ridden in coach on an LD train since 2019. I think it depends on where you’re boarding. For originating station I think they just tell you which car to get in, based on your destination. For stations down the line it probably depends on how full the train is. With trains selling out I suspect many are being assigned seats.


----------



## zephyr17 (Aug 17, 2022)

I just want to point out that the railroad reservation bureaus has no trouble assigning seats in advance, including the ability to group people in the car where they got off if was at a small station with a short platform where not all doors opened (which was usually accomplished using a "shorts" coach).

This systems were typically manual and depended on clerks maintaining a series of car seating charts, but it worked. Reserved seating was generally a feature only of premier trains and the railroads did charge a surcharge for reserved seats.

Those systems ceased being used prior to Arrow when Amtrak moved from continuing to use host railroad reservation bureaus and established their own centralized reservations, which was pretty early on. I do recall a period after Amtrak established their own central reservations but before Arrow when on the Coast Starlight, at least, I was assigned to a car in advance but not a seat.

There is really nothing precluding re-establishing a computerized version of such a system, other than possibly the limitations of Arrow itself. The single variable that might be missing is the stations at which a particular car line is opened. You have that, and the reservation system which can assign people to the correct cars.


----------



## Kbyrdleroydogg (Sep 22, 2022)

I'm considering a Lake Shore Limited from Chicago Union Station to New York Union Station around 9:30 pm at night departure. My question is should I get there early because I want a window seat or do they seat you by destination? All the NYC people in one car while people getting off sooner are in others or people getting on at later stations but going to NYC will eventually wind up in your car? What is the process?


----------



## VentureForth (Sep 22, 2022)

The seats aren't assigned to your ticket. However, it depends on whether the conductor will assign you a seat when you board. Sometimes they'll just have you pick a seat in a car based on your destination, sometimes they'll tell you specifically which seat to sit in.

I don't like it.

It never hurts to be at the front of the line and to make a request if you are assigned a seat you don't prefer. Otherwise, while on board, you can shuffle seats. If you do this, make sure you pick a seat without a seat check slip in the railing above, and take yours with you (after conductor makes yours). You don't want to relocate to an occupied seat. 

IDK how strict they are on the LSL, but I haven't had any problem on the Silvers, Capitol, or the Eagle.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Sep 22, 2022)

Kbyrdleroydogg said:


> I'm considering a Lake Shore Limited from Chicago Union Station to New York Union Station around 9:30 pm at night departure. My question is should I get there early because I want a window seat or do they seat you by destination? All the NYC people in one car while people getting off sooner are in others or people getting on at later stations but going to NYC will eventually wind up in your car? What is the process?


There are at least 2 Coaches going to New York City(#48) with the Boston Section (#448)at the Front of the Train, so your Chances of getting a Good Seat in the Amfleet II Coaches is good.

It will depend on the Passenger Load and the Crew, but every time I've taken the Lake Shore to NYP in Coach I've been able to pick my own seat.


----------



## bratkinson (Sep 22, 2022)

Getting there more than, say, 30 minutes early won't help much. Being at or near the front of the line when they start boarding IS important in getting a window seat. Know that #48/448 most likely boards from at the easternmost glass doors in the waiting area at CHI as far as I know. If you see the crowd from the Metropolitan lounge boarding/waiting to board about 9:05-9:10 (I've always ridden sleeper), stand by the door then if they haven't already called for coach boarding.


----------



## MARC Rider (Sep 22, 2022)

daybeers said:


> Right, but stupidly _after_ you pay the absurd price or use a coupon.


Why is that a problem? Someone's not going to take a trip because they can't get just the right seat?


----------



## zephyr17 (Sep 22, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Why is that a problem? Someone's not going to take a trip because they can't get just the right seat?


Well, most airline sites allow you preview a available seats before purchase. For air travel, I will decide against flights based on which seats are available, so the concept of changing plans based on seat availability does not sound at all outlandish to me. With that said, there are no seats on Amtrak nearly as bad as bad airline seats, so it assumes much less importance.


----------



## MARC Rider (Sep 22, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Well, most airline sites allow you preview a available seats before purchase. For air travel, I will decide against flights based on which seats are available, so the concept of changing plans based on seat availability does not sound at all outlandish to me. With that said, there are no seats on Amtrak nearly as bad as bad airline seats, so it assumes much less importance.


When the boss tells someone that they have to fly out to De Moines on the 14th of the month, or when vacation days are fixed, and a person can only travel on certain dates, the vast majority of people aren't going cancel or change their plans because they can't set the seat of their choice. Maybe a few retired people can be picky like that, but even then, this is transportation, you get there at the same time, whatever seat you get.


----------



## zephyr17 (Sep 22, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> When the boss tells someone that they have to fly out to De Moines on the 14th of the month, or when vacation days are fixed, and a person can only travel on certain dates, the vast majority of people aren't going cancel or change their plans because they can't set the seat of their choice. Maybe a few retired people can be picky like that, but even then, this is transportation, you get there at the same time, whatever seat you get.


When I traveled on business, I was usual able to choose flights based at least partly on seat availability. I was never forced into a middle seat. My employers were usually flexible on time of day, and were all right with taking an earlier or later flight as long as I was where I was supposed to be when I was supposed to be.

Most of my selections based on seat availability I referred to were actually for business travel. It wasn't when I was a "privileged" retiree.

Since I retired, I have not flown at all.

So, as I said the capability of seeing seats in advance and making travel plans at least partly based on that is not at all outlandish, even for business travel. Who wants to be stuck in a middle seat if one can find reasonable alternatives?


----------



## rs9 (Sep 23, 2022)

Here's one video from Feb. 2022 that suggests that passengers on the LSL departing from Chicago are grouped into cars by destination - at least for NYP passengers.


----------



## daybeers (Sep 26, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Why is that a problem? Someone's not going to take a trip because they can't get just the right seat?


Those upgrade coupons are precious, and to use them on Acela, you're already paying a higher base fare for not much upgrade in the experience department. It's the same thing with not being able to see the seat map before paying in cash: why?


----------



## rs9 (Sep 30, 2022)

I was wondering if any recent Capitol Limited coach riders could share if seats are still being assigned these days. My boarding would be in both terminus cities (Chicago and DC).


----------



## crescent-zephyr (Sep 30, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Maybe a few retired people can be picky like that, but even then, this is transportation, you get there at the same time, whatever seat you get.


I’m not retired and always pick flights based on seat availability. I usually travel for work. 

Recently I DID have to book a middle seat on delta but I kept refreshing the app on the day of my flight and got it changed to a window seat thankfully. 

Being able to choose a seat would definitely be a nice thing on Amtrak and Acela.


----------



## Sidney (Sep 30, 2022)

rs9 said:


> I was wondering if any recent Capitol Limited coach riders could share if seats are still being assigned these days. My boarding would be in both terminus cities (Chicago and DC).



If the train is full or close to it you will get assigned seats.


----------



## Joe from PA (Oct 1, 2022)

If you are boarding the NE Regional, and want 2 seats together, at stops close to D.C. or Boston, board at a car all the way to the front. These stations board from the rear. If boarding in NYC, pay a red cap $5. to take you and your carry-on down to the platform before the mobs are allowed down.


----------



## Northwestern (Oct 1, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I would like to see Amtrak go to a seat reservation system where you could pick your seat at the time of ticket purchase as is the case for most airlines and for a long time on many European trains. It would save the stress of having to get to the front of the line to grab a good seat especially on the NEC. If Amtrak wanted to allocate specific coaches for certain destinations that could be built into the system.


I couldn't agree more. I fly Alaska mostly, and they have a nice graphic where you can see all the seats and which ones are booked and which ones aren't. But, as we can't even get PDF Timetables anymore, on the Amtrak website, maybe it is asking too much.


----------



## ehbowen (Oct 1, 2022)

Here's how I would do it if I were suddenly named the Amtrak czar and had the budget to write a new reservation system:

At the time of reserving you are allowed to designate preference(s) for your seat(s). Window; aisle; engineer's side; fireman's side; front, back, or middle of car.
Seventy-two hours before the train departs the initial terminal, the reservation system assigns seats by passenger preference. First priority is seating groups together, especially children traveling with adults. Second priority is utilization of seats; 'hot-swaps' enroute to maximize utilization will be made if possible. Third priority is passengers' designated preference, assigned in order of booking.
After seats are assigned but before departure of the train the system will allow you to swap to another seat of your choice if available up to three hours before departure time. You may also request to swap onboard by asking a crew member.
Passengers booking within seventy-two hours of departure may select from any available seat showing in the system. If groups are separated...well, you should have booked early.
Passengers booking are allowed to reserve a second seat for comfort if they wish, at full price. The seats will be assigned together. If only the second seat is cancelled before departure but after seats are assigned, any refund will be conditional on selling that seat...if you tell the system you want a second seat and then change your mind after assignment, no refund unless someone sits next to you.
If budget permits I'd put an electronic display above each seat showing when it was reserved and where it becomes available.
Just my .02...


----------



## Trollopian (Oct 1, 2022)

rs9 said:


> I was wondering if any recent Capitol Limited coach riders could share if seats are still being assigned these days. My boarding would be in both terminus cities (Chicago and DC).


Assigned seating has been my experience in WAS (based on two WAS-PIT round trips this summer). At WAS, where passengers are sorted into cars by their destination (basically Pittsburgh and points east vs. Cleveland and points west), the platform conductors will not only point you to a car but give you a seat ticket and ignore any polite plea for a window seat or other preference. They dispense seat assignments in order, and that's that . I can't testify to CHI but as a terminus it's probably the same.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Oct 2, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Why is that a problem? Someone's not going to take a trip because they can't get just the right seat?


There is a vast middle ground between wanting a good seat and abandoning a trip entirely.



MARC Rider said:


> When the boss tells someone that they have to fly out to De Moines on the 14th of the month, or when vacation days are fixed, and a person can only travel on certain dates, the vast majority of people aren't going cancel or change their plans because they can't set the seat of their choice.


Our corporate booking service shows available seats and we can pick whatever flight we prefer.



MARC Rider said:


> Maybe a few retired people can be picky like that, but even then, this is transportation, you get there at the same time, whatever seat you get.


Is it your view that sites like SeatGuru, ExpertFlyer, and FlyerTalk exist to appease a few retired people?


----------



## jebr (Oct 2, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> When the boss tells someone that they have to fly out to De Moines on the 14th of the month,


Maybe they take the connection through Atlanta instead of the connection through MSP, because both segments on the Atlanta routing have preferred seating, but there's only a middle seat on one of the MSP legs. Or maybe they take the United itinerary instead of the American itinerary because United has better seating availability.


MARC Rider said:


> when vacation days are fixed, and a person can only travel on certain dates,


There's still the flexibility in timing or airline, even if date-specific travel is required. Also, in all the full-time jobs both my spouse and I have had, there's generally been flexibility in what days you take off. That seems to be the experience I hear about with other friends and family as well. 


MARC Rider said:


> the vast majority of people aren't going cancel or change their plans because they can't set the seat of their choice.


Cancel? Probably not. Change? Quite possibly. I can't say that the particular seat on the aircraft has influenced my decision, but I've definitely decided to prioritize taking certain aircraft over others if I have the choice.

It also is just more customer-friendly to let that seat selection happen at the initial point of purchase. It sets expectations properly, and it adds some assurance that they have the seat they want at the moment they're buying the ticket. I don't think it's unreasonable to want Amtrak to have similar functionality.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 3, 2022)

jebr said:


> Or maybe they take the United itinerary instead of the American itinerary because United has better seating availability.


I would imagine for most flyers whichever Frequent Flyer program they are in would trump seat availability for choosing an airline.


----------



## zephyr17 (Oct 5, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I would imagine for most flyers whichever Frequent Flyer program they are in would trump seat availability for choosing an airline.


If the choice is between a middle seat on an airline that I have a frequent flyer account with and an aisle seat on one I don't, I'll take the aisle and forgo the points.

It's likely I'd try to hunt up another flight or routing on my preferred airline with better seats before bailing on them, though.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Oct 5, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I would imagine for most flyers whichever Frequent Flyer program they are in would trump seat availability for choosing an airline.


On travel forums it's easy to forget that most fliers do not have loyalty accounts and even among those that do the vast majority will never earn status or even one free trip. Perhaps you meant frequent fliers?


----------



## Kbyrdleroydogg (Nov 25, 2022)

I bought a coach seat on Amtrak. Will I be told where to sit? I'm leaving Sat Dec 24th onboard Lake Shore Limited from CHI to NYP.


----------



## WWW (Nov 25, 2022)

Interesting - any indication on the ticket about what car you will be in and a seat within that car -
With Sleepers the ticket notes what car and the Roomette or Bedroom assignment.

Without any assignment - one is going to have rush down the platform and brush the car attendant aside -
push over the little old lady with mobility aid - derail the mom with stroller -
and once on board place your luggage in the empty seat next to you -
After doing this act may be the Conductor may see to have you upgraded to the prima business seating section

On a more serious humorous note - one of the forum readers may have the official answer you seek - - -

Does Amtrak have a boarding procedure - boarding women and children - mobility assist guests first ?
Obviously on a full train putting your luggage in an empty seat is not going to pass muster !

With member replies - noting what seats are best for viewing - business (USB power ports) other creature comforts
riding in the middle of the car to avoid noise and wheel truck/coupler movement.

You will probably get a slow response to this - this being the Thanksgiving/Black Friday holiday.

HINT: Arriving early asking the station personnel your question may give a glimpse of gaming the system.

Good Luck and enjoy your Amtrak experience !


----------



## Kbyrdleroydogg (Nov 25, 2022)

WWW said:


> Interesting - any indication on the ticket about what car you will be in and a seat within that car -
> With Sleepers the ticket notes what car and the Roomette or Bedroom assignment.
> 
> Without any assignment - one is going to have rush down the platform and brush the car attendant aside -
> ...


It just says 1 coach seat.


----------



## Rasputin (Nov 25, 2022)

I have only traveled by sleeper on the Lake Shore in recent years so I have no personal experience. However based on my trips by coach on other trains, it seems to depend on the crew (as a lot of things on Amtrak do) . 

I would say that in the peak holiday season, it is likely that the crew will assign you a seat as you board. But that is only a guess. Best to try to line up early in case it is a free for all.

Hope you have a good trip. I would also recommend a sleep mask. Don't forget that there is a cafe at Albany which is well stocked with food and you should have time to go there during the stop.


----------



## joelkfla (Nov 25, 2022)

WWW said:


> Does Amtrak have a boarding procedure - boarding women and children - mobility assist guests first ?


Amtrak policy is that passengers needing boarding assistance are supposed to be boarded first, but in practice they're usually the last to board, especially when a wheelchair lift or bridge plate is needed. Best way to board first is to get a redcap, where available.


----------



## PVD (Nov 25, 2022)

It also differs when you are at a station with a gate and/or escalators. They may bring/send passengers early from the gate, but then encounter the lift or bridge plate issue at trainside.


----------

