# Crew taking up lounge tables - What would you do?



## AAARGH! (Dec 2, 2009)

So I was on the Silver Star last month and in the lounge car, 4 of 7 tables were being taken up by crew, and the other side of the lounge was already crowded. This didn't leave any open tables for customers. I was already at one of the tables, but I was thinking, what would I do if I wanted to sit down?

FYI, the conductor, asst. conductor, lounge attendant, and diner LSA (off duty) each had a table.

I have seen this several times on other trips as well.


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## wayman (Dec 2, 2009)

AAARGH! said:


> FYI, the conductor, asst. conductor, lounge attendant, and diner LSA (off duty) each had a table.


Did they each have official papers spread out on their tables, such that they were actually making use of the space, or was only the conductor at work with tickets and train orders spread across his table (and the rest were just there to hang out)?

If they're all actually working, there's nothing you can say. If one or more of them are clearly just hanging out; there weren't any free tables; and I was a paying (food) customer, I'd ask one of the hanging-out ones if I could join them. If I were just there to enjoy the scenery or read a book or use my laptop (and hadn't bought anything), I might be more reluctant to ask.

So, my choice is really a different one from the options in the poll: I'd ask to share a (non-workspace) table with the crew rather than directly asking a crew member to move. (If the crew member wants to interpret that as a suggestion to move, fine; if they don't, and are fine sharing, fine; but if they say "sit somewhere else", I might point out that there isn't anywhere else at that point.)


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## PetalumaLoco (Dec 2, 2009)

So each of these 4 crewed tables had 1 crew sitting there? And tables with passengers had seats available? Pick one table, then ask them to share. Community seating.

So, for me, you'd need another poll choice. Pick any table with an available seat, and ask to share.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 2, 2009)

wayman said:


> AAARGH! said:
> 
> 
> > FYI, the conductor, asst. conductor, lounge attendant, and diner LSA (off duty) each had a table.
> ...


Each had their own table. The conductor and assistant conductor had papers and/or tickets. The lounge attendant had a laptop (playing a DVD), books, and other personal stuff. The table with the LSA (and at times shared with other diner crew and/or SCAs) was being used just to hang out.


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## had8ley (Dec 2, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> So each of these 4 crewed tables had 1 crew sitting there? And tables with passengers had seats available? Pick one table, then ask them to share. Community seating.
> So, for me, you'd need another poll choice. Pick any table with an available seat, and ask to share.


Great point...turn the "tables" on the crew. What do you do when a particular conductor on the Crescent takes his jumbo suitcase and sets it on one table; blocks another table with newspapers and uses another for work space? Wouldn't mind it if it was in the middle of the night but it's between Atlanta and Meridian. Pre-Amtrak he would be walking down the right of way looking for another job.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 2, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> So each of these 4 crewed tables had 1 crew sitting there? And tables with passengers had seats available? Pick one table, then ask them to share. Community seating.
> So, for me, you'd need another poll choice. Pick any table with an available seat, and ask to share.


Isn't that the second option?


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## PetalumaLoco (Dec 2, 2009)

AAARGH! said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > So each of these 4 crewed tables had 1 crew sitting there? And tables with passengers had seats available? Pick one table, then ask them to share. Community seating.
> ...


Nope, the second option says share with a passenger. I'm choosing share with anyone, passenger or crew, at any table that has a seat open.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 2, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> AAARGH! said:
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> > PetalumaLoco said:
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So its a coin toss between 2 or 3.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 2, 2009)

On one than more occasion I have seen the entire Lounge side of a *Texas Eagle *CCC taken over by crew with paperwork, playing cards, newspapers and what not sprawled across the tables. And sometimes they have gone as far as to ask pax headed to the front of the train (Sleepers) where are they going, possibly "spooking away" some Coach pax who may have been headed to the Diner.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 2, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> AAARGH! said:
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> > PetalumaLoco said:
> ...


So I worded it poorly. I meant the second option to mean _you_ share a table with another passenger while the third option is to ask two crew to share with each other.

I should have added an option for _you_ sharing with a crew member, but I guess I wouldn't consider that myself. I should have I guess. So for that case, lump it in with # 2 IMO.


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## pennyk (Dec 2, 2009)

I was on the Silver Star leaving WAS last Sunday (Thanksgiving weekend), arriving in Orlando on Monday. The train was full. In fact, an extra coach was added. When I walked through the lounge, one side was fully occupied by passengers. However, on the other side, there was one table with one passenger and all the other tables were taken up by crew (who appeared to be working).

There was a long line of coach passengers waiting to get food in the lounge. I do not know where they went afterwards - maybe back to coach.


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## haolerider (Dec 2, 2009)

pennyk said:


> I was on the Silver Star leaving WAS last Sunday (Thanksgiving weekend), arriving in Orlando on Monday. The train was full. In fact, an extra coach was added. When I walked through the lounge, one side was fully occupied by passengers. However, on the other side, there was one table with one passenger and all the other tables were taken up by crew (who appeared to be working).
> There was a long line of coach passengers waiting to get food in the lounge. I do not know where they went afterwards - maybe back to coach.


I have seen Conductors ask both passengers and crew to share tables. There is really only one group that should be working in the lounge - the Conductor with his/her tickets and manifest. LSAs are not supposed to be doing their reports until the train arrives; however many of them spread all their stuff out to keep a table for themselves. Coach attendants and Sleeping car attendants have rooms to go to when they have down time and are not supposed to be hanging out in the lounge car. This is one of the difficulties that is going to be faced by the new union managers who are supposed to be riding trains. Since they are union, they are generally reluctant to enforce the rules since it against their "sense of family" and they don't want to correct/discipline a fellow union member. This is particularly a problem with dead-heading employees who are in the lounge rather than taking up a coach seat - although it usually is not for a long distance.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 2, 2009)

This seems to be real problem on trains with the CCC (Eagles and City come to mind!), I know the Conductors have to have a work space but isnt that what downstairs on the transdorm is for? Several of the crew members on the Eagle spend more time in the CCC than they do working their cars, mostly reading books, playing video games, talking on cell phones etc. On the days there is no Sightseer it gets pretty crowded when the train has lots of pax, it's been like this Every time I've ridden the City!

I have ask crew if they could double up or if I could share a table when the few seats available are taken (on the City its mostly people drinking beer and other adult beverages it seems to me! )! Some are friendly and comply, others are surly (there go the tips! Opps!), all tell you to contact Amtrak and tell them to give them back their Sightseer Lounge Car!


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## Neil_M (Dec 2, 2009)

Space for passengers should be just that. Crew should be loafing around out of sight.


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## Mark (Dec 3, 2009)

This is one of my biggest Amtrak pet peeves to put it nicely. I really hate when crews and employees 'dominate' the lounge or even from time to time the dining areas. Conductors working there or not those tables/areas should be for the fare paying passengers! They shouldn't have to be asked, the employees should voluntarily give up the space.

I've had several trips with crews and or on board staff 'deadheading back' to wherever dressed in street clothes with their Amtrak IDs out laughing and having a good old time with the on duty employees as well. One trip on the EB I counted 9 of them in the Lower Level of the Lounge Cafe, plus the A/C and the on duty LSA, it was like a reunion down there.

However, I haven't had to ask anybody to move so I could sit yet but I have been grilled more than once on my way back to the sleeper with my purchases in hand after the same group of Diner staff watched me head towards the lounge!

I would email/write/call Amtrak Customer Service if I couldn't find a place to sit in a Cafe or Lounge because the train staff was 'hanging out'. It looks bad and presents the wrong image: Overpaid union/government workers who don't do much if anything for a pay check. I know that's not true at all but to a novice passenger it can really send a negative message. Amtrak needs to better educate their work force regarding this type of behavior. Its all in the presentation.


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## rrdude (Dec 3, 2009)

Mark said:


> I would email/write/call Amtrak Customer Service if I couldn't find a place to sit in a Cafe or Lounge because the train staff was 'hanging out'. It looks bad and presents the wrong image: Overpaid union/government workers who don't do much if anything for a pay check. I know that's not true at all but to a novice passenger it can really send a negative message. Amtrak needs to better educate their work force regarding this type of behavior. Its all in the presentation.


.........And, almost all of us carry cell phones these days. I have to tell you, I get a certain amount of mischievous glee when I do this, taking pictures of crew, all splayed out taking up space, it is a GREAT WAY to get them to clear out.

invariably, one of more of them will ask you, "What you taking pictures for?" (because you are focusing on THEM, and not the train or the scenery outside the window) ANSWER. "I'm gonna email it to Amtrak Customer Service, and SHOW them why I couldn't find a table to sit at...."

Be PREPARED for some pretty gruff responses. And if your dining car waiter happens to be in that group, you might want to skip your next meal.

If you don't like confrontation, don't do this. Now I've only done this twice, and only after making obvious attempts to sit down (with my kids all holding carry-out boxes full of snacks) But I was just plain pissed that the crew was having their own little "reunion" as one OP stated.

The effect was like dropping a nuke. GONE. FAST. UGLY SNEERS.

We sat down and enjoyed our snacks, and scenery...............


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## Steve4031 (Dec 3, 2009)

Obviously, if the crew is working, fine. This hanging out and socializing invariably happens with the worst employees anyway. I usually like to eat in my room anyway, so this would not be too much of an issue. But if they are providing poor service across the board, then the camera phone would be a godd way to help Amtrak clean house.


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## AudenHoggart (Dec 3, 2009)

Steve4031 said:


> Obviously, if the crew is working, fine. This hanging out and socializing invariably happens with the worst employees anyway. I usually like to eat in my room anyway, so this would not be too much of an issue. But if they are providing poor service across the board, then the camera phone would be a godd way to help Amtrak clean house.



In addition to individually responding in extreme situations, is there anything the participants in this discussion board can do collectively to get Amtrak to address this problem? It's both inconvenient to us as passengers and also makes Amtrak look terrible to new riders.


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## daveyb99 (Dec 3, 2009)

Crew should NEVER work or rest in customer areas. If there is a policy, there has been a slow ignoring of the policy which has created a 'right to occupy' mentality.

The Superliners Sleepers for crew have plenty of rest and work space, go there. (I am unsure on the single level trains).

What annoys me even more is when the Dining Car crew barely makes a round in the seating area, then runs to the other end of the car to 'sit and chat' before being bothered to make another round.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 3, 2009)

AudenHoggart said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously, if the crew is working, fine. This hanging out and socializing invariably happens with the worst employees anyway. I usually like to eat in my room anyway, so this would not be too much of an issue. But if they are providing poor service across the board, then the camera phone would be a godd way to help Amtrak clean house.
> ...


Having traveled frequently on Amtrak, I have had many experiences with crew members. On the trips where the crews have done a good job, this kind of behavior does not happen. In my experience, when you receive poor customer service, you will quite likely see this kind of behavior. When you see crew members monopolizing passenger space to socialize, you already know that they are not interested in waiting on passengers. Asking to share space, or asking them to move, is quite likely to result in a gruff response. I tend to have no patience for this. So I either eat at my seat or in my room. I don't feel like getting in a power struggle with the crew. In some ways I like the phone camera approach, but I would not use it myself. I don't really want to fight with them about it the rest of the trip. However, I could see that if more people did this, then thesw malcontents would be weeded out.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 3, 2009)

daveyb99 said:


> Crew should NEVER work or rest in customer areas. If there is a policy, there has been a slow ignoring of the policy which has created a 'right to occupy' mentality.
> The Superliners Sleepers for crew have plenty of rest and work space, go there. (I am unsure on the single level trains).
> 
> What annoys me even more is when the Dining Car crew barely makes a round in the seating area, then runs to the other end of the car to 'sit and chat' before being bothered to make another round.


While I tend to agree with you about the Superliners, where are the single-level Conductors supposed to work? On the Acela its nice because there's an office in the café, but on every other train he is going to need either a seat in the lounge car or a set of seats in one of the coaches.


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## AudenHoggart (Dec 3, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> daveyb99 said:
> 
> 
> > Crew should NEVER work or rest in customer areas. If there is a policy, there has been a slow ignoring of the policy which has created a 'right to occupy' mentality.
> ...


One of the additional problems here is the very backward state of Amtrak's technology. Why is there all this paper to deal with? All of this should be handled on small, handheld, electronic devices without the need for the mounds of material that Amtrak staff seem to spread out on cafe car tables and, even worse, on the CCC's.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 3, 2009)

The Crew Lounge on the Superliner Trans Dorm is plenty large for all the train crew and their luggage to fit and has tables for work or whatever to be spread out on. If the new Viewliner Baggage Dorms ever come on line, that should offer that option for the east coast trains. Now to "train" the crews to use the spaces provided for them.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 3, 2009)

AudenHoggart said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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> > daveyb99 said:
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Read: they're working on that.

See: What can we do about this in the present?



> The Crew Lounge on the Superliner Trans Dorm is plenty large for all the train crew and their luggage to fit and has tables for work or whatever to be spread out on. If the new Viewliner Baggage Dorms ever come on line, that should offer that option for the east coast trains. Now to "train" the crews to use the spaces provided for them.


A. I don't remember if the new BagDorms will have a working space built in or not. Maybe, but I don't remember it.

B. That doesn't fix the problem for the non-LD single level trains like the Regionals, Keystones, ect... some of which don't even have café cars with tables to work at--


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## VentureForth (Dec 3, 2009)

I agree that the crew should be working out the view or space of the passengers. In Japan on most long distance trains, there are crew booths where the conductor can, with the door open or closed, perform his onboard duties. The door is clearly marked "CONDUCTOR", and as such it is off limits to customers. It is NOT revenue space.

I think the problem on the Viewliner trains is lack of space. But I swear the SA's take up more than just one room when they can, and the crew as mentioned in this thread, like to take over the lounging areas. This is unprofessional and just goes to show that mentality that many of us are disgusted with. I don't know what the union work rules are, but 30 minute


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 3, 2009)

On the *Heartland Flyer *there are 2 Conductors (but not 25 sacks of mail) and they almost always are out of sight when doing paperwork. And that train is usually only 3 cars with a small Snack area. When not making the rounds or filling out papers, you can often find them in the Snack area chatting with the LSA or other pax.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Dec 3, 2009)

On my way to the gathering the LSA had his stuff spread out all over his own table. He did however, have his laptop up with GPS software running for all to see. I thought this was pretty cool. Since on a regional i never even dream of getting a seat in the cafe. People love sitting in there.


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## rail_rider (Dec 3, 2009)

VentureForth said:


> I agree that the crew should be working out the view or space of the passengers. In Japan on most long distance trains, there are crew booths where the conductor can, with the door open or closed, perform his onboard duties. The door is clearly marked "CONDUCTOR", and as such it is off limits to customers. It is NOT revenue space.
> I think the problem on the Viewliner trains is lack of space. But I swear the SA's take up more than just one room when they can, and the crew as mentioned in this thread, like to take over the lounging areas. This is unprofessional and just goes to show that mentality that many of us are disgusted with. I don't know what the union work rules are, but 30 minute


I've been on a few trains where the SA has taken more than one room. This never bothered me until I was bumped out of room 2 back to room 9, a room I'm not fond of. I suppose I should have called customer service but I wasn't as savy as I am now after joining AU. This SA turned out to be the worst SA I've ever had. His lack of tip was my only revenge at the time.


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## Greg (Dec 3, 2009)

I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.


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## Palmland (Dec 3, 2009)

This is one of my pet peeves on Amtrak. Not just the lounge, but also the diner. On my last trip on the Palmetto four of the six tables in the dinette were occupied by crew even though the train always has one out of service coach south of Richmond. I grabbed a spot, but saw many passenger glance uneasily at the vacant spaces where the crew was hanging out, and keep walking. In the diner, the crew is usually hustling, but there are always some tables out of service because they are storing stuff. The whole thing makes it look like an unprofessional operation.


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## rail_rider (Dec 3, 2009)

I was thinking, some of the best conversations I've had on trains have occured when I've "had" to squeeze in at a table due to a crowded cafe car. Seems everyone is more relaxed sitting at a table than sitting in a coach seat since usually your facing one another. Last summer I met a college student from Russia who was using Amtrak to tour the USA. This was when the CZ was detoured through Wyoming and she was so excited to see all the wild life, like Bison and prairie dogs.


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## Guest Amtrak (Dec 3, 2009)

To give you an insider view to this policy. It's a double edged sword. The Conductor and Asst. Conductor need a place to do their work, a flat surface. With Bulletin Orders, Delay Reports, Manifests, tickets, etc. Most crews take up one table for the Cond. and A/C. OBS crews are not supposed to take up tables, that includes LSA's, dining car staff, coach attendants, etc. Second, most Cond. & A/C use tables in the lounge because it is a central location where they can be found if a problem occurs. Usually most problems occur in the lounge cars.

You'll find most crews are more than willing to accommodate. A major problem are passengers who take up a whole table with their laptop, paperwork, and/or newspapers and will not let passengers who purchase food to sit with them. Amtrak allows this to go on. If a Conductor tells a passenger they cannot take up a lounge table as a revenue seat and must allow others to sit and eat, and that passenger writes a letter, Amtrak will take the side of the passenger breaking who is being downright selfish.

As for taking pictures of these individuals/crew, you do not have that person's permission to take their picture. Just as you would not have permission to take another passengers picture without asking them first. Don't do this because the complaint will be thrown out.

And as for Amtrak employees being overpaid government/union workers, please do a days work in our shoes. Until you know what we do and what we have to know, this is an ignorant statement. Don't let the actions of a few paint the many in a negative light.


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## Guest_Mark_* (Dec 3, 2009)

I understand asking permission but ..



> Don't do this because the complaint will be thrown out.



I don't even know what that means. 

Don't do what? Submit a complaint with a photo of the rule being broken?

I don't understand your comment.


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## Guest Amtrak (Dec 3, 2009)

Guest_Mark_* said:


> I understand asking permission but ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To clarify, a picture is worth a 1000 words. While you could submit a picture saying the crew was doing this, the crew or crewmembers can argue, "no we were doing this" and also the fact that the person whose picture was taken was not asked permission to have their photo taken first. At that point, the "Carrier" or Amtrak would have to throw the complaint out and the crew member will not be reprimanded.

Regardless, it's always best to express your dismay to the crew first before just sneakily taking a picture or writing a complaint. The crewmember may apologize, realize they were wrong and change. No one likes a tattletale and I think you will find that most people will realize when they have upset someone or done something wrong, or have a very good reason for doing so. We have long, hard jobs on the railroad. It is impossible to please everyone all the time.


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## Guest_Mark_* (Dec 3, 2009)

"No one likes a tattletale" Yeah, staff should be able to do whatever they heck they want. :lol:

"We have long, hard jobs on the railroad." Must not be all that bad or you would quit.


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## Ryan (Dec 3, 2009)

While I agree that you guys have a long and at times thankless job and that you're far better off being polite and asking, I don't need your permission to take your picture.


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## DET63 (Dec 3, 2009)

What is the law about taking pictures of either fellow passengers or crew on a train (or any other public conveyance)? I would assume that there is some privacy in a sleeping car compartment (roomette or bedroom), but in a coach, diner, observation, or lounge car, is there any such assumption of privacy?


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## amtrakwolverine (Dec 3, 2009)

no one likes a tattle tail huh so if im a paying customer in the lounge and i want to sit down in the lounge to eat but can't because on one end the lounge is filled with pax while on the other end the crew is hogging the seats doing nothing but playing cards watching movies etc. whatever happened to the customer is always right. so crew members are above the rules huh they can get away with anything like celebs who think there above the law. if there doing paper work etc that's different there working but if there off duty go to your room or the space that's made for you.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 4, 2009)

Greg said:


> I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.


I agree HOWEVER... I have encountered two of the best attendants on amtrak ever on Silver Trains. There is a lounge car attendant, middle age bald man who is a retired school teacher who is just a joy and must outsell all other lounge cars cause you pretty much want to buy something from him just to thank him for being so darn friendly!

The other was a sleeper attendant I had who made me feel welcome from begginning to end, again a middle age man with greying hair. I wish I could remember his name but he was fantastic as well and earned a $40 tip for a one night stay in a Roomette.

Unfortunately other than these two shining stars, the dining crew, and sleeper attendants are pretty much the worst in the system from what I have seen.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 4, 2009)

As for the argument... there are two sides to every coin and I think each side has a valid point. First of all... Amtrak staff need a place to work. The operations staff (Conductor etc.) need a place toward the center of the train, and should be allowed to take up space. Also.. the Lounge car attendant should be allowed 1 booth to sit at, since they can not be expected to stand all day long! So that is two booths... I think that is fair... when the crew is taking more than that, they shouldnt, they should sit in the diner, or crew lounge, or somewhere else.

By the way... Amtrak put in a little conductor office in the new Diner Lite style cars on the Single Level fleet and I rarely see it used, generally the Conductor sits in a booth as always... even though there is one less booth open since they put in that office for him.


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## rrdude (Dec 4, 2009)

While I have taken pix twice, and submitted to Cust. Svc., I have no idea if they were "thrown out" or not.

As for the "right", "legality", or "whatever" in taking a pix, I do agree, it SHOULD BE the last option. But when almost an entire OBS crew is sitting, and not one of them is giving ANY indication that they will move (NOT making eye contact, avoiding you, etc.) while you are STANDING with hands full of carry-out trays, and two young kids asking "Daddy, there is no place to sit!" (in a pleasant way, that young kids do, just stating the obvious) These losers OUGHT to have their pix posted on line...................

Hey! Why doesn't one of the OP start a site where "interested individuals" could post pix of Amtrak Employees "not doing their job"? Opps. I bet I just violated some TOS rule.

So be it. I was an OBS for three years. My feet got real tired, I wanted to sit. I wanted to do paperwork. Many of the trains I worked were full or overflowing (college runs outa Chicago). No matter HOW TIRED I was, I always made sure that when it got crowded, I cleaned up any stuff I had on the table right next to the cafe, and made it available to cx.

Let's remember, most of the Amtrak employees ARE good, and want to do the right thing. It's the " a few bad apples spoil the bunch" that worries me.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Dec 4, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> I don't need your permission to take your picture.



Hmmmm, :blink:

You probably should reconsider your position in regard to this statement (or at least clarify it if I have misread your posting)!

*From Amtrak's Photography policy....*

* *

*4. Ticketed passengers on board trains may take photos or video record on a train when it does not interfere with passengers or crew and in accordance with any directions given by Amtrak onboard train personnel.*

The rest of Amtrak's photo/video policy may be found by clicking here

Not exercising caution (such as taking pictures of anyone and anything) may cause the person in question to be greeted by Amtrak, host RR, or local police at the very next stop or agreed upon location! h34r:

To the OP (and anyone else), if you encounter adverse behavior from any Amtrak crew member, and it is clear and evident they refuse to govern themselves appropriately, simply document the occurrence(s) in writing. Note dates, days, time, train number, employee names, your reservation number, and any other details (when and whatever is possible), and keep your complaint as short and to the point as possible. Send this complaint by certified return receipt mail to both Amtrak's President and CEO and Customer Service/Relations, and follow up with a phone call when you have ascertained Amtrak has received your letter(s). This is the best way to handle all complaints as it creates a paper trail of documentation. The bad apples will eventually have their day in the spotlight (one they won't necessarily want to be in). 

As a customer, we each have a right to receive the transportation that we have paid Amtrak for in a safe and efficient manner. We also have the right to expect adequate customer service from the crew. And Amtrak is obligated to be sure that action occurs in the best interests of their customers.

However, we need to realize that we are not in our own vehicles, homes, etc, and are expected to follow the instructions of those who provide the service we paid for while on their property and govern ourselves accordingly. Anything other than that can and most likely will lead to problems!

I gave 100% of my effort to fulfill my duties as an OBS employee at Amtrak during my tenure. I was in no way associated with the "bad apples." But I still didn't allow anyone to take my picture (if I knew about it that is)! It is / was nothing personal, but I don't belong (nor have any desire to be) in anybody else's family photo album except those of my kin folk. I also, have a right not to be photographed at my place work, either unless my employment calls for it (such as a locomotive cam, etc).

OBS gone freight...


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## Ryan (Dec 4, 2009)

Yeah, I'm intimately familiar with that policy, and snapping a quick picture of crew members skylarking in the lounge certainly doesn't interfere with anything (unless I stand there for an extended period of time blocking the aisle while people try to get past. I certainly wasn't advocating disregarding a crew member if they tell me to stop, but by that point I've got the picture that I need, and made my point. If any of the crew members tell me to stop, of course I would comply, but the policy says that photography is default-allowed until told otherwise, not default-denied until I gain permission, which is what the guest poster was implying.

I would look into that "right not be photographed at my place of work" thing, because I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist (depending on where you work) - there are some transit workers here in DC that are keenly aware of that after customer-submitted pictures of them reading books and sending text messages while operating busses came to light. Obviously if you work on private property your employer can set whatever photo policy they desire. All that being said, if you asked me to not take your picture, I'd certainly comply because it's the only decent thing to do.


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## amtrakwolverine (Dec 4, 2009)

yeah how else well we gain proof of you not doing your job or taking up revenue space and denying amtrak revenue when not working. its one thing if you work in the lounge to sit but if the conductor A/C sleeper attendants etc are hogging the lounge and paying customers can't sit to eat thats denying amtrak revenue and needs to stop. AMTRAK EMPLOYEES ARE NOT ABOVE THE RULES REGARDLESS TO WHAT THEY SAY. A picture is worth a 1000 words just ask the one subway employee who was fired when a rider submitted a photo of him texting.


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## Greg (Dec 4, 2009)

Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.


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## zoltan (Dec 4, 2009)

VentureForth said:


> I agree that the crew should be working out the view or space of the passengers. In Japan on most long distance trains, there are crew booths where the conductor can, with the door open or closed, perform his onboard duties. The door is clearly marked "CONDUCTOR", and as such it is off limits to customers. It is NOT revenue space.


The problem is, I do not like trains on which I am isolate from the crew! It's reassuring for a lot of people, for reasons of safety and the conduct of others around them, to know that a crew member is nearby and in the same shared space.



rail_rider said:


> I was thinking, some of the best conversations I've had on trains have occured when I've "had" to squeeze in at a table due to a crowded cafe car. Seems everyone is more relaxed sitting at a table than sitting in a coach seat since usually your facing one another. Last summer I met a college student from Russia who was using Amtrak to tour the USA. This was when the CZ was detoured through Wyoming and she was so excited to see all the wild life, like Bison and prairie dogs.


I have had the same experiences in the lounge; I would say that sharing is no bad thing. Interesting people ride Amtrak! I've also had some great conversations with crew members I've sat with in the lounge; I remember one lasted for the final two hours of a journey from Montreal to Penn Station.


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 4, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> While I tend to agree with you about the Superliners, where are the single-level Conductors supposed to work? On the Acela its nice because there's an office in the café, but on every other train he is going to need either a seat in the lounge car or a set of seats in one of the coaches.


The diner lites do have a conductors office, Micah. I have never seen it used and it is badly designed, but it is there.



Guest Amtrak said:


> And as for Amtrak employees being overpaid government/union workers, please do a days work in our shoes. Until you know what we do and what we have to know, this is an ignorant statement. Don't let the actions of a few paint the many in a negative light.


Not many of us here think that Amtrak employees are overpaid wastrels. I have met many Amtrak employees who are so good, they are clearly underpaid because they should be making a quarter of a million bucks a year for the amount of quality, friendly, diligent work they do.

However, I have seen a few that are not only worth what Amtrak is paying them, but are not worth the air they are consuming on board the train. They are obnoxious, unfriendly, hostile for no good reason, and don't even do their job well, or at all. The majority of Amtrak employees range from competent to excellent. But there are a few that really are as bad as the public thinks they are- and worse.



HokieNav said:


> Yeah, I'm intimately familiar with that policy, and snapping a quick picture of crew members skylarking in the lounge certainly doesn't interfere with anything (unless I stand there for an extended period of time blocking the aisle while people try to get past. I certainly wasn't advocating disregarding a crew member if they tell me to stop, but by that point I've got the picture that I need, and made my point. If any of the crew members tell me to stop, of course I would comply, but the policy says that photography is default-allowed until told otherwise, not default-denied until I gain permission, which is what the guest poster was implying.
> I would look into that "right not be photographed at my place of work" thing, because I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist (depending on where you work) - there are some transit workers here in DC that are keenly aware of that after customer-submitted pictures of them reading books and sending text messages while operating busses came to light. Obviously if you work on private property your employer can set whatever photo policy they desire. All that being said, if you asked me to not take your picture, I'd certainly comply because it's the only decent thing to do.


You are interfering if the Amtrak staff deems you to be interfering. They are not required to give you a warning, and the conductor is god on the train. If he decides to stop the train right in the middle of nowhere usher you right out the door, that's done. At which point you have a place to be clearly pissed off, which reduces your credibility- anyone kicked off a train is going to whine, regardless of how legitimate their removal was. And you're off the train, which sucks.

We're not talking about the fair, reasonable, competent employees who would never dream of kicking off a passenger without good solid reason. We are talking about the dumb, lazy A-hole employees. Underestimate their laziness, a-holishness, and inherent dishonesty at your own risk, amigo.


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## Ryan (Dec 4, 2009)

I seriously doubt that a conductor is going to risk his job over a single picture taken. The situation I'm envisioning, you've taken the picture of the lounging crew members before any of them say anything about not taking any pictures. After that point, if you comply with everything that the conductor tells you to do, there can be no way that you can be deemed to be interfering.


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## Guest_Tom_* (Dec 4, 2009)

> Hey! Why doesn't one of the OP start a site where "interested individuals" could post pix of Amtrak Employees "not doing their job"? Opps. I bet I just violated some TOS rule.



Wow, that would be a cool website!

Would a link to such a site posted here be permitted?

Because I'd be happy to create such a site and host it.

Alan?

Thanks!


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 4, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> I seriously doubt that a conductor is going to risk his job over a single picture taken. The situation I'm envisioning, you've taken the picture of the lounging crew members before any of them say anything about not taking any pictures. After that point, if you comply with everything that the conductor tells you to do, there can be no way that you can be deemed to be interfering.


Pretend the world works that way at your own risk.


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## Ryan (Dec 4, 2009)

It's worked for me for 30 years, so I guess I'll keep at it.


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## Neil_M (Dec 5, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> HokieNav said:
> 
> 
> > I seriously doubt that a conductor is going to risk his job over a single picture taken. The situation I'm envisioning, you've taken the picture of the lounging crew members before any of them say anything about not taking any pictures. After that point, if you comply with everything that the conductor tells you to do, there can be no way that you can be deemed to be interfering.
> ...


Front the lazy crew out, ask them to move so you can sit down as a fare paying passenger. If the crew are working then they should be working, if they are on rest then a designated area should be set aside for them. Just another example of its Amtrak and we have to accept it because it has always been like that.


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## AlanB (Dec 5, 2009)

Neil_M said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > HokieNav said:
> ...


The crew does have a designated area set aside for them when on break, on most LD's three places in fact. They have their sleeper compartment, they can occupy a table in the dining car for their meals, and on Superliner equiped trains they have the crew lounge in the Trans/Dorm car. On single level trains, there is no crew lounge.

Now on short haul trains, that's different. There is no place for the crew to hang out, except the cafe car. Of course on short haul trains, the amount of crew is pretty much limited to the LSA running the cafe car. The one exception would be Acela where you have First Class attendants.


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## amtrakwolverine (Dec 5, 2009)

Greg said:


> Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.


on the LSL there was a sign over one of the coach seats that said crew use only or one of the trains we rode during the gathering.


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## AlanB (Dec 5, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.
> ...


That's so the attendant has some place to sit during the day while keeping an eye on the coach, rather than having to run back to their sleeping compartment, which depending on the coach could be a very long walk.


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## amtrakmichigan (Dec 5, 2009)

Guess what folks.....The police DON"T need your permission to take a video or picture of you when YOU do something wrong. Amtrak employees certainly are not exempt from the law. Yes ...certain members of the train crew do need space to do paper work; but should be doing this on "off hours" of the food service areas. Would that stop me from sitting down to enjoy my meal or to relaxe with them at there table if all tables are full?.... NO!!!!!! So if you floped your butt down in one of the seats at there tables what are they going to do or what can they say?? Just return the the stares and sneers if one is presented to you. I would just make sure that you record everything said and done if a attitude deveolps with a member of the crew. If some these stories are really true that some of you are writing on here, then I would personelly document everything and report it to Amtrak and to a lawyer if need to be.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 5, 2009)

I realize that it can be annoying to see the crew sitting at tables in the lounge but really people, you have a tray table! I also have very rarely seen a lounge completely full (meaning there is not room at any passenger tables) and the crew still taking up more than two tables. Again, two tables are completely justifiable in my book.

Personally, I would never be so bold as to argue with Amtrak crew about them taking up tables, let alone try to take there picture! That seems a bit over the line to me weather or not its illeagal. Now I have had Amtrak crew ask nicely if they can join my table, and had some great conversations!


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## VentureForth (Dec 7, 2009)

zoltan said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that the crew should be working out the view or space of the passengers. In Japan on most long distance trains, there are crew booths where the conductor can, with the door open or closed, perform his onboard duties. The door is clearly marked "CONDUCTOR", and as such it is off limits to customers. It is NOT revenue space.
> ...


It would not be off the train or outside of the passenger coaches, but rather a private booth area within the train that a passenger could physically walk up to and knock on the door if there was an issue.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 7, 2009)

Of course they could always do like the school bus and put a mirror above the Conductor's station where he can keep an eye on his pax and make everyone sit down if they get too rowdy :lol:


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## had8ley (Dec 7, 2009)

amtrakmichigan said:


> Guess what folks.....The police DON"T need your permission to take a video or picture of you when YOU do something wrong. Amtrak employees certainly are not exempt from the law. Yes ...certain members of the train crew do need space to do paper work; but should be doing this on "off hours" of the food service areas. Would that stop me from sitting down to enjoy my meal or to relaxe with them at there table if all tables are full?.... NO!!!!!! So if you floped your butt down in one of the seats at there tables what are they going to do or what can they say?? Just return the the stares and sneers if one is presented to you. I would just make sure that you record everything said and done if a attitude deveolps with a member of the crew. If some these stories are really true that some of you are writing on here, then I would personelly document everything and report it to Amtrak and to a lawyer if need to be.


Sorry Charlie...all the crew member has to do is declare the area crew space and report you to the conductor. I'm afraid if you pushed it too far you'd be looking for a Greyhound station at the next stop. Another glaring example of, "This is OUR train and you WILL abide by our edicts even though we make them up as we roll along."


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## dlagrua (Dec 7, 2009)

Thats why the trains were better off in the days when Pullman ran the porter crew. Old man Pullman would not tolerate any nonsense. Back in the day these people would be fired but now they have cushy government jobs and many are arrogant. Best that you could do is to get the names of these people,send a letter to Amtrak management and demand that they fix the problem. The crew get paid to serve the passengers and not the other way around. When they start paying us then then can have the tables.


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## Zevzec (Dec 7, 2009)

rrdude said:


> Mark said:
> 
> 
> > I would email/write/call Amtrak Customer Service if I couldn't find a place to sit in a Cafe or Lounge because the train staff was 'hanging out'. It looks bad and presents the wrong image: Overpaid union/government workers who don't do much if anything for a pay check. I know that's not true at all but to a novice passenger it can really send a negative message. Amtrak needs to better educate their work force regarding this type of behavior. Its all in the presentation.
> ...


This is brilliant.


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## SouthernServesTheSouth (Dec 8, 2009)

Why are the Amtrak bigwigs scared of the rank and file?

None of them have the guts to sneek out of their office, grab their family and act like the common Joe and take a cross country trip and observe their employees from our point of view.

Nooooo, they make a big show of letting everyone in their office know what they are doing and the word is leaked out to everyone when they make their inspection.

Where are the "secret customers." for pax trains? Airlines use them, Resturants use them, Hotels use them.

I guess the problem continues to be, they won't act on any problems found.

"No one likes a snitch" is that a threat? Maybe coffee in your lap, luggage "miss placed", or mystery dressing on your sandwich?

I have had many a great attendant, also one I never saw after departing for a 2 day trip. Wait, I did see him with his hand out at the end of the trip.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 8, 2009)

Amtrak is not a cruise line or a fine hotel, I think some people are getting a bit crazy about a couple of people sitting at a table! Yes I get it, but writing amtrak because a worker was "sitting in the lounge car" is a bit extreme. Let's be reasonable and enjoy our train trip. Last time I checked... every seat had a tray table.


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## Rumpled (Dec 8, 2009)

My problem on the Surfliner has not been the cafe tables, but the coach seating.

Crew seems to reserve two to three 4 seat areas at the control end car.

Even when full of passengers they haven't given up these areas.

These seats are lightly used by crew as they are roaming the train doing their jobs pulling tickets etc.

I've been forced to stand watching 8-12 empty seats, when questioning this once at LAUS I was tossed off the train and threatened with arrest.


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## BlueJeanGirl (Dec 8, 2009)

That would be the cab car, as the trainset is pushing?

If so, one of the reasons is for the safety of our engineer. You have seen the size and number of carry-ons our passengers bring. Setting 50+ pound suitcases in front of the closed door means in the event of an emergency, the engineer is unable to exit the cab.

Passengers standing in front of that door are even more dangerous, with the potential of vocal distractions, music, children, or other noise. I have been in the cab with the engineer, and a group of passengers behind the door were so loud we were unable to hear the dispatcher on the radio. Safety? It must be our highest priority.

We have repeatedly asked for a retrofit of the Surfliner cab cars to enclose the area from the baggage stairwell to the end of the car, for the safety of the engineer, with no success.

(Additionally, when this area is not closed off, we often find passengers attempting to exit through the baggage area, leading to another bushel of issues.)

I cannot imagine any conductor asking you to exit the train for asking a question of this nature, unless your manner, demeanor, or actions gave the conductor cause to regard you as a potential security risk. I wasn't there, though.

Travel light!

~BJG



Rumpled said:


> My problem on the Surfliner has not been the cafe tables, but the coach seating.Crew seems to reserve two to three 4 seat areas at the control end car.
> 
> Even when full of passengers they haven't given up these areas.
> 
> ...


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## amtrakwolverine (Dec 8, 2009)

also you got to remember what happens if a cab car should hit a car. there ALLOT lighter then a locomotive and not as strong. its a liability i would also think. theres some commuter rails(MBTA) that rope off the cab car section of the train.


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## Asst Conductor OKJ (Dec 8, 2009)

I can attest first hand to what BJG has stated.

I have also had to whitness first hand what engineers hear from the pax through the walls of the cab car. Unfortionatly its a poor design, as the engineer can hear everything the pax are saying in the car. When running in thick fog or when trying to call work crews on the tracks ahead it can be really distracting to have sombody on the cell phone right outside the door yelling. Its for your own safty to have the engineer able to focus their full attention to running the train.

You also need to remember that on certain consists (surfliners and others that dont have a designated crew area), the paperwork that a conductor must carry can easily encroach upon one table per conductor. Thankfully on most of the trains in Northern CA, we have the lower level of the cafe car for crew use with adiqute room for paperwork, but when we have a 'panic box' or the low level surfliner cafes, we are entitled to one table per crew member for the purposes of paperwork. This is usually one table at each end of the train, along with the possibility of a table in the middle of the train if there is an extra AC.

Now for when crews are needlessy occupying space for no purpose other than lounging, thats a different stoy. My best suggestion would be to approach the conductor in a humble way asking politly if they could help you find a seat at a table to enjoy your meal. If you are still unsatisfied with the response than I would find it reasonable to write amtrak customer relations and document, names (if you have them), date, train number, and stick to the facts trying to be emotionally un attached. Letters with nothing but slander are not likly to be followed up on.


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 10, 2009)

Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 10, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.


Do they track who writes what? If I write several 'good' letters and then one 'bad' one, do they track that I had written the other letters and thus give more credence to it as you suggest?

I hope they do, but are we giving Amtrak customer service too much credit here?


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## printman2000 (Dec 10, 2009)

TVRM610 said:


> Last time I checked... every seat had a tray table.


Not quite accurate. The front row seats and the two seats right behind the stairwell on Superliner Coaches do not have tray tables. More legroom, but no tray tables.


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## Green Maned Lion (Dec 10, 2009)

AAARGH! said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, one of the best things you can do to have your bad letters recognized is write good letters when they are due. Someone who is notable for constantly writing good letters (which you should reference in bad letters) and writes a bad letter in complaint is going to get more attention. Why? Because you are clearly a person who is not just a general whiner.
> ...


Make reference to it. If they gave you a case number in a response, note them. So you write a letter as follows:



> Dear Amtrak,
> As you should know from my previous letters to your company, such as ones you assigned case numbers X, Y, and Z, I am generally very supportive of your staff. While the timing can leave something to be done, I rarely see your people giving me less then 110%. And I continue to deeply appreciate most of them.
> 
> However, there are bad eggs in every basket, and as bad eggs go, I found one group in your system that was truly rotten. Idiot Conductor X and his OBS friends Y and the dreaded Z worked together on your trip aboard train # 666 as part of my reservation [reservation number], to make me downright miserable.
> ...


Its also the tone. Calm, considered, thought out. I am not writing this 5 minutes I got home from the train from hell, exploding through the ears every thirty seconds and looking to not only have X fired, but to have Y tarred and feathered, and Z summarily executed. You just sound angry. Angry people are unreasonable. Their perspectives are exaggerated. They are best ignored.

But a letter like the one above? Its calm, collected, logical, rational. I put some careful thought into it. That I am writing a negative letter, after my bouyant support of so many trains and employees, these people must have really irritated me. And yet, I still try to give them a fair shake. I have no axe to grind. I just want to help, both myself and the company.

Wouldn't you prefer to listen to someone like that?


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## AAARGH! (Dec 11, 2009)

Green Maned Lion said:


> AAARGH! said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


WOW!

Next time I need to write a complaint letter to Amtrak, I will hire you. Very well done.


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## Tony (Jan 3, 2010)

I just stumped upon this in Amtrak Operations Standards, and thought I would share (seemed appropriate) ...



> Employees may use seating space in food service cars at their discretionwhen such cars are not serving passengers, as prescribed herein. It is the
> 
> responsibility of the Conductor to ensure that these guidelines are
> 
> ...


And...



> All tables in the Dining Car are for the exclusive use of customersduring all meal periods. Crew members who wish to eat during meal
> 
> periods may order their meal “to go” and are to consume their meal at
> 
> ...


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## wayman (Jan 3, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> > Dear Amtrak,
> > As you should know from my previous letters to your company, such as ones you assigned case numbers X, Y, and Z, I am generally very supportive of your staff. While the timing can leave something to be done, I rarely see your people giving me less then 110%. And I continue to deeply appreciate most of them.
> >
> > However, there are bad eggs in every basket, and as bad eggs go, I found one group in your system that was truly rotten. Idiot Conductor X and his OBS friends Y and the dreaded Z worked together on your trip aboard train # 666 as part of my reservation [reservation number], to make me downright miserable.


From now on I will be on the lookout for the dreaded Z (shudder!) on my Keystone trips. Sounds like I want to avoid riding in his car at all costs!!! :blink: (For anyone confused by my reply, Train 666 actually exists, a weekend Keystone departing Harrisburg at 11:20am. Which suggests its next-to-last stop, Newark, is purgatory, and its final destination, NYP, is hell? No comment! :lol: )


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 3, 2010)

Also a candidate are 1)San Antonio-purgatory 2)Beaumont-hell and if it ever gets there 3)NOL-a sort of heaven!

The conductors and OBS could be people of darkness after going through a transformation @ Mardi Gras when they board Sunset Ltd. #666 that runs from heaven to hell to purgatory! :lol:


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## guest (Jan 3, 2010)

Tony said:


> I just stumped upon this in Amtrak Operations Standards, and thought I would share (seemed appropriate) ...
> 
> 
> > Employees may use seating space in food service cars at their discretionwhen such cars are not serving passengers, as prescribed herein. It is the
> ...


On my last CZ East bound trip there were crew taking up one table lunch and dinner meal in dinning car. Paying passengers had to wait for tables. They gave last call for Lunch way before Burlington IA. The train arrives in Burlington just a little after 11:15AM and arrives in Chicago around 3:30PM. That is four hours to end of trip. People were turned away at lunch. I assume they were Coach passengers but not sure because they did not take reservations for lunch either day I was on the CZ. A long time to go if you missed lunch. I might add that they were out of many things on the menu for that last lunch. If everyone that wanted to eat lunch in the dinning car had of been able to they would of had slim pickings to choose from.


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## Larry H. (Jan 6, 2010)

Steve4031 said:


> Obviously, if the crew is working, fine. This hanging out and socializing invariably happens with the worst employees anyway. I usually like to eat in my room anyway, so this would not be too much of an issue. But if they are providing poor service across the board, then the camera phone would be a godd way to help Amtrak clean house.


Bottom line, the crew should not be working in what is an area designed for use by "paying" passengers, whom after all are the reason the train is supposed to be running. This thing I agree can be a problem, especially on trains with limited lounge space. Another reason why all this furor to eliminate places for passengers to enjoy their trip over the years has gone sour, where do you go besides your seat! (I know its not a Plane, you need different amenities on a train). All of this including nearly every problem seen onboard or in operating equipment is due to lack of a management that is interested in promoting passenger business. Something like this would never take place on board a serious passenger train in the past, not run by the federal government. Health care anyone.. People are much more interested in preserving their jobs than serving the public.


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## Larry H. (Jan 6, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> daveyb99 said:
> 
> 
> > Crew should NEVER work or rest in customer areas. If there is a policy, there has been a slow ignoring of the policy which has created a 'right to occupy' mentality.
> ...


I don't think anyone is particularly concerned about the crew sitting in one end seat of a coach, but taking over two thirds of the passengers lounge area is not the same and should not be allowed.


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## Larry H. (Jan 6, 2010)

Greg said:


> I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.


One there Union workers

Two their government workers

Does that explain it?

Passengers are an inconvenience that pays their salaries.


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## Larry H. (Jan 6, 2010)

Guest Amtrak said:


> To give you an insider view to this policy. It's a double edged sword. The Conductor and Asst. Conductor need a place to do their work, a flat surface. With Bulletin Orders, Delay Reports, Manifests, tickets, etc. Most crews take up one table for the Cond. and A/C. OBS crews are not supposed to take up tables, that includes LSA's, dining car staff, coach attendants, etc. Second, most Cond. & A/C use tables in the lounge because it is a central location where they can be found if a problem occurs. Usually most problems occur in the lounge cars.
> You'll find most crews are more than willing to accommodate. A major problem are passengers who take up a whole table with their laptop, paperwork, and/or newspapers and will not let passengers who purchase food to sit with them. Amtrak allows this to go on. If a Conductor tells a passenger they cannot take up a lounge table as a revenue seat and must allow others to sit and eat, and that passenger writes a letter, Amtrak will take the side of the passenger breaking who is being downright selfish.
> 
> As for taking pictures of these individuals/crew, you do not have that person's permission to take their picture. Just as you would not have permission to take another passengers picture without asking them first. Don't do this because the complaint will be thrown out.
> ...



Somehow by the number of complaints it doesn't appear to be a "few" inconsiderate crew members? The point is, Union or no Union, Government or not operating the system, workers in a business that is "catering" to the public are expected to act as though they are. Of course we have all had many great attendants on trips. Sadly though for new riders or even old riders, the ones that are a problem and continue be so are the ones everyone remembers.


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## Larry H. (Jan 6, 2010)

Greg said:


> Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.



Perhaps you should reverse this and say put a sign on the tables saying "for use of paying passengers only". Now that would be how to run a real passenger business. The crew has a crew car or seat or room somewhere to kill time in if they have time to do that. The idea that what little space is available on many trains now days should also go to the workers is a sad commentary on what it means to "serve the public".


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## Neil_M (Jan 6, 2010)

Larry H. said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they should just prominently mark a couple of tables with a sign that says something to the effect: "Amtrak employees only" and then limit employees to those two tables. When the room gets really crowded and if those tables are empty, they can let pax sit there, with the expectation that they might have to relocate if work needs to be done there.
> ...


To put another slant on this, what would you do if you went into a restaurant or cafe and found several tables full of "resting" staff members?

If crew need a space to work they should have a dedicated space or if they have to use public seating, give it up for the passengers as soon as it is required.

The other down side is that if you have a group of railway workers together, then they tend to default to moaning about the job and/or other employees, hardly a positive advertisement for Amtrak.


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## VentureForth (Jan 6, 2010)

BlueJeanGirl said:


> That would be the cab car, as the trainset is pushing?
> If so, one of the reasons is for the safety of our engineer. You have seen the size and number of carry-ons our passengers bring. Setting 50+ pound suitcases in front of the closed door means in the event of an emergency, the engineer is unable to exit the cab.
> 
> Passengers standing in front of that door are even more dangerous, with the potential of vocal distractions, music, children, or other noise. I have been in the cab with the engineer, and a group of passengers behind the door were so loud we were unable to hear the dispatcher on the radio. Safety? It must be our highest priority.
> ...


The Surfliner is the WORST!!! Sorry, BJG, but when I rode, the WHOLE cab car was empty in pusher mode and I couldn't get a seat in the open area. Had my bags with me, and the conductor kept telling me to sit, but wouldn't help me ask other riders to stop taking up two seats. I agree that crew safety is foremost important, but that was ridiculous. Metrolink (and every other system that uses Bombardier bi-levels) doesn't have this problem. So the problem really is inadequate equipment. Who in the heck would design a cab car that was unsafe from passenger interference??? Crazy.


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## VentureForth (Jan 6, 2010)

Larry H. said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > I have traveled just about every Amtrak route in the past few years, most often traveled on the Silver Service trains. As I have indicated on here before, I have found the service level and attitude on the Silvers to be just about the worst in the entire system. I don't know exactly why, but they just don't seem to care or even acknowledge that paying passengers are an integral part of the equation on the Silvers.
> ...


Sorry Neil, but I gotta....

You took two swipes at spelling "they're" and they were both wrong. But your premise is excellent.


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## AlanB (Jan 6, 2010)

Neil_M said:


> To put another slant on this, what would you do if you went into a restaurant or cafe and found several tables full of "resting" staff members?If crew need a space to work they should have a dedicated space or if they have to use public seating, give it up for the passengers as soon as it is required.


First, I have gone into resturants and seen staff members resting at a table if it was particularly slow that night. Granted they usually aren't taking up several tables, generally one maybe two.

Second, a resturant often does have space to setup a special area. Space is at a premium on the train. The Superliner trains do have some crew space, but all other trains do not.

Third, your average resturant worker does an 8 hour shift and then goes home. Your average Amtrak worker is on duty from 6:00 till at least 11:00 PM.

Now I'm not suggesting that I totally condone the practice either, and in a cafe car the conductors should be sharing one table if there is no alternative, not taking up two. I've seen conductors do it, so I know that it can be done. It might be nice to spread out, but it's not nice when passengers are looking for seats.

And any sitting crew should be together a one other table, not multiple. And that crew should vacate said table if it is indeed the last table and there are still more passengers looking for a table, unless they are eating a meal because the cafe car is the only place for food service, ie. no dining car on the train.


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## AlanB (Jan 6, 2010)

VentureForth said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > Greg said:
> ...


Um, Neil didn't say that.


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## Neil_M (Jan 6, 2010)

AlanB said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > Larry H. said:
> ...


True......


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## VentureForth (Jan 6, 2010)

Ooops. Sorry Neil. I meant Larry.

See? No good critique goes un-critiqued!


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## VentureForth (Jan 6, 2010)

Last month, I took my boys on the Piedmont, and their nice new lounge car with vending machines and free coffee also had a crew rest area. It was empty. The conductor took the furthest 4-top table, and I think two other 4-tops were taken up by North Carolinia volunteers.


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