# NPCUs on Amtrak Cascades?



## Aaron A (May 5, 2016)

Hello, I was wondering if anyone has heard of NPCUs starting to be retired from Cascades service. The majority of Amtrak Cascades trains I've seen in the past month have been the original Talgo sets with two locomotives. One had a P42 and Dash 8, Another had a P42 and a F59PHi, and one I saw on Tuesday had two F59PHis. Anyone know if it's true? It would fit my suspicions that the NPCUs would be replaced by the F59PHis when the new chargers are delivered so there are two locomotives per train. I also saw two NPCUs sitting in Seattle, seemingly in storage. Can anyone confirm that they are being retired? Or are they just out of service for repairs?

Thanks,

Aaron


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## the_traveler (May 5, 2016)

AFAIK, the Talgo sets should be bookcased with an F59 on each end.


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## CCC1007 (May 5, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> AFAIK, the Talgo sets should be bookcased with an F59 on each end.


Never seen that, all I have seen were locomotive on one end and either npcu or nothing on the other.


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## the_traveler (May 5, 2016)

The photos that you see with the designs sloped from locomotive to locomotive are with an F59 on each end of the Talgo set. (I'm sorry I can't imbed a photo now.) They use a F59 since a P42 is too tall to match up, and of course a Dash 8 doesn't either.


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## KmH (May 5, 2016)

I had to look it up - NPCU = Non-Powered Control Unit.


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## Aaron A (May 5, 2016)

Yeah it was cool to see a set how it was intended to be. Sorry, I should have said what NPCU stands for. There was some flamer on YouTube claiming that the F59PHis would be gutted and made into NPCUs like the F40s were, but WSDOT said it's up to Amtrak, and I have a feeling they want the NPCUs for other routes and will rebuild all of them to be standard phase V painted versions like they did to #90250.


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## CCC1007 (May 5, 2016)

Aaron A said:


> Yeah it was cool to see a set how it was intended to be. Sorry, I should have said what NPCU stands for. There was some flamer on YouTube claiming that the F59PHis would be gutted and made into NPCUs like the F40s were, but WSDOT said it's up to Amtrak, and I have a feeling they want the NPCUs for other routes and will rebuild all of them to be standard phase V painted versions like they did to #90250.


And I have a feeling that the F59's will be leaving the area to enter the western pool to help relieve the stress that the P42 fleet is under. I don't think that they have enough talgo sets to allow for the schedule that they have promised the Feds.


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## CCC1007 (May 5, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> The photos that you see with the designs sloped from locomotive to locomotive are with an F59 on each end of the Talgo set. (I'm sorry I can't imbed a photo now.) They use a F59 since a P42 is too tall to match up, and of course a Dash 8 doesn't either.


The F59's are taller than the P42's and dash 8's. Almost two feet taller in the case of the P42.


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## Aaron A (May 5, 2016)

I think atleast some of them will stay in Seattle. A lot of P42s will be freed up from shorter routes by the charger. If I remember correctly, that includes Washington/Oregon (for sure two P42s, with occasional extras replacing OLD units), California (quite a few from the photos of the Amtrak CA trains), and Illinois and Michigan which are all P42s. I think that Amtrak wants the NPCUs for service in the Midwest. How many trains did they want per day? I know they are going to add two more when the Point Defiance Bypass opens.


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## Aaron A (May 5, 2016)

The P42 actually looks a lot better with the new Talgos since they don't have fins. At first the paint scheme for the new Chargers looked weird to me, but looking at the Talgo, the green roof will match the bottom edge of the green stripe on the Talgo perfectly since it's a significantly shorter locomotive compared to an EMD F59PHi.


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## CCC1007 (May 5, 2016)

Aaron A said:


> I think atleast some of them will stay in Seattle. A lot of P42s will be freed up from shorter routes by the charger. If I remember correctly, that includes Washington/Oregon (for sure two P42s, with occasional extras replacing OLD units), California (quite a few from the photos of the Amtrak CA trains), and Illinois and Michigan which are all P42s. I think that Amtrak wants the NPCUs for service in the Midwest. How many trains did they want per day? I know they are going to add two more when the Point Defiance Bypass opens.


It's the two new ones that currently don't fit into the rotations and would stretch the fleet far too thin.
The P42 fleet is at the breaking point, and needs relief now. Those NPCUs are leased to Washington, but the locomotives are not.


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## Aaron A (May 5, 2016)

Would it be possible to use the P40a at beech grove and rebuild them with the trucks from #66 and other wrecked P42s? From what I've read, they're mostly complete except their truck went to P42s


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## Seaboard92 (May 6, 2016)

I know I've said it before and I'll say it again. 66 is alright it won't be scrapped. No frame damage that is reported. What is your source


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## Northwest Railfan (May 6, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I know I've said it before and I'll say it again. 66 is alright it won't be scrapped. No frame damage that is reported. What is your source


I'm just using it as an example. It does seem like it could potentially be cheaper to rebuild a unit that is in reasonable shape instead of one with wreck damage.


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