# Trains Are Winning Big Off U.S. Oil



## CHamilton (Dec 4, 2013)

Pipeline On Wheels: Trains Are Winning Big Off U.S. Oil


----------



## railiner (Dec 5, 2013)

Good arcticle, thanks for posting!

For a while, tank cars almost were extinct.

That was then, this is now....


----------



## FriskyFL (Dec 5, 2013)

Ask the people of Lac Megantic about "winning big".


----------



## Anderson (Dec 5, 2013)

FriskyFL said:


> Ask the people of Lac Megantic about "winning big".


And ask MMA about running a railroad competently. The issue isn't the trains themselves, it's that companies have been allowed to cut corners where they should not have been allowed to.


----------



## Ispolkom (Dec 5, 2013)

Anderson said:


> FriskyFL said:
> 
> 
> > Ask the people of Lac Megantic about "winning big".
> ...


As if it's only MMA. In my experience it only takes one white cloud of death to spoil your morning. I take great comfort that CP is now transporting crude oil through St. Paul. I'm sure that their track and procedures are now much better...


----------



## Bob Dylan (Dec 5, 2013)

Most People Don't Know How Much Hazardous Material is Passing through their Cities and Towns 24/7 Whether its by Truck/Train or Air! Progressive Cities have Created Hazardous Material By-Pass Routes that Go Around Most Areas of the City but the Rail Lines and Airports are Fixed and Can't Be Moved or Replaced without Spending Billions if not Trillions of Dollars which in Todays' Political Climate Just Ain't Gonna Happen! :help:


----------



## AlanB (Dec 5, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> Most People Don't Know How Much Hazardous Material is Passing through their Cities and Towns 24/7 Whether its by Truck/Train or Air! Progressive Cities have Created Hazardous Material By-Pass Routes that Go Around Most Areas of the City but the Rail Lines and Airports are Fixed and Can't Be Moved or Replaced without Spending Billions if not Trillions of Dollars which in Todays' Political Climate Just Ain't Gonna Happen! :help:


Jim,

I think that many people also don't realize that RR's are actually required to carry those hazardous materials. They can't refuse to transport most things.


----------



## jimhudson (Dec 5, 2013)

True this Alan!  Most of Us Know, I was just trying to Point Out that the Media and Government Officials Need to Do a Better Job of making the Public Aware of just How much Hazardous Materials (not Even Mentioning Pipe Lines) are Moved through Every City and Most Towns Daily!


----------



## jis (Dec 6, 2013)

There is always some significant localized downside to the significant growth of economic activity. The question to ask is (a) in the bigger scheme of things is the risk acceptable? and (b) Can the risk be managed effectively(?) Unfortunately, the only way to eliminate all risks is to cease all economic activity, which probably even the most ardent environmentalist will not like, unless they are of the fringe variety.


----------



## Ryan (Dec 6, 2013)

AlanB said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Most People Don't Know How Much Hazardous Material is Passing through their Cities and Towns 24/7 Whether its by Truck/Train or Air! Progressive Cities have Created Hazardous Material By-Pass Routes that Go Around Most Areas of the City but the Rail Lines and Airports are Fixed and Can't Be Moved or Replaced without Spending Billions if not Trillions of Dollars which in Todays' Political Climate Just Ain't Gonna Happen! :help:
> ...


I didn't know that, can you expand on it (or point me in the right direction to search)?

You're saying that if call up NS and say "I've got a tank car full of $SOMETHING", they're obligated to accept it and ship it?


----------



## jis (Dec 6, 2013)

I am not sure if they are at least allowed to ask for whatever price they feel like, and thus ensure that the shipment does not happen.  I suspect what Alan is talking about are the "common carrier" obligations.


----------



## Ryan (Dec 6, 2013)

Interesting, that set me off in the right direction. One of the first things that I found actually discussed the pricing (PDF Link):

http://www.nacd.com/docs/advocacy/2009/pdf/NACD%20Key%20Issue%20-%20Rail%20Common%20Carrier%20-%204-17-09.pdf



> The major railroads enjoy monopolies in their service areas and are able to charge high prices and dictate service terms to their customers, including chemical manufacturers and distributors. In recent years, the railroads have increasingly expressed concerns about potential liability exposures involved with the transportation of TIH materials and have argued to Congress and the Surface Transportation Board (STB) that they should either receive liability relief
> 
> or be relieved of their common carrier obligation to transport TIH materials.


Also interesting DoT Testimony:

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/Details/L02847


----------



## CHamilton (Jun 1, 2014)

Crude-By-Rail Interactive Map


----------



## George Harris (Jun 1, 2014)

The map is essentially the entire US (& Canada) main line railroad system. Therefore, as for showing the principal oil product routes it does nothing for us. It also shows a concentration of facilities along the Gulf Coast between Mobile and Houston. That is not exactly a revelation, either. But then maybe that is because I have family in the area and have worked in the area a few times for short periods. (And on of those was on a pipeline construction job.) If you have long term connections in that area, you wonder what all the uproar is about. After all, many of us have been living with this stuff in the area for our entire lives. Maybe people in the area just know how to handle it.


----------



## FriskyFL (Jun 2, 2014)

Gotta wonder if some of the so-called grassroots opposition to Keystone XL is actually being orchestrated by the railroads? After all, who's the biggest loser if the pipeline gets built? ;-)


----------



## Anderson (Jun 2, 2014)

FriskyFL said:


> Gotta wonder if some of the so-called grassroots opposition to Keystone XL is actually being orchestrated by the railroads? After all, who's the biggest loser if the pipeline gets built? ;-)


I'm trying to remember what Warren Buffet has had to say on this. IIRC, he's been pretty nuanced on the issue...I don't think he wants to be hauling the super-volatile stuff because of the liability, for example.


----------



## CHamilton (Jun 11, 2014)

Wyden, Merkley: Firefighters still lack 'critical information' on oil trains, seek federal watchdog's help




> [senators] Wyden and Merkley want the NTSB, an independent federal safety watchdog, to report on the locations of oil train accidents involving smaller amounts of oil from other regions. And they want the NTSB to evaluate the risks that trains carrying crude from other regions pose to communities in Oregon and elsewhere.
> 
> As evidence of the proliferation of crude-by-rail facilities across North America, the senators pointed to these two maps, showing the industry's rampant growth in the last three years.
> 
> [Maps in original article.]


----------

