# Breaking Up with Amtrak



## BKolakosky (Aug 8, 2007)

Dear Amtrak,

Thank you for your hard work trying to ensure a safe, affordable, and convenient transportation alternative. I have the option of driving but prefer the train because it is relaxing and enjoyable. I have been a loyal customer for 4 years, visiting my San Jose family regularly. I would like to share with you my experience on the evening of July 31st.

I was returning home from San Jose. I got to the train station and was informed the train was about an hour late, the ticket agent said me this is a common issue with this train and recommended I not take it in the future. This was a foreshadowing the the long evening to follow.

As we were preparing to board the train, the conductor asked that we not board until instructed to do so. He did not welcome us, he did not introduce himself, he did not indicate that he was happy to be there nor that he was happy we were there. He did not introduce the route so people knew they were at the correct track or train. He addressed each passenger one at a time; “how many are traveling with you? Where are you going?” He gave the passenger a seat number and instructed them to board. In the 4 years of traveling with Amtrak I have never been assigned a seat. I was not informed I would be assigned a seat when I paid for the ticket online nor when I picked the ticket up at the station and the conductor did not inform us why. In the interest of all involved I did not argue, I now regret this decision.

I located my seat across the isle from the well-lit stairwell, the trash can (an open receptacle) and the water fountain; a busy, noisy, well-lit intersection. My assigned neighbor was sprawled across both seats, sound asleep. Later she would admit she is a very deep sleeper and can sleep just about anywhere. There were plenty of empty seats up and down the isle in both directions, I preferred the darker and quieter spot further up the isle next to the window. I asked nearby passengers if the conductors required us to sit in the assigned seat, they confirmed. Oddly, none of the passengers seemed put off by the arrangement. I woke my neighbor up, sat down, and waited.

25 minutes later another conductor came for my ticket. I asked if I was free to move seats, he informed me I could not move; if I was assigned this seat then I was to remain. He did not say why and moved on ensuring I had no opportunity to protest.

Why didn’t I express my unhappiness ? It was after 10 pm. I was tired. I was on vacation. I was supposed to be enjoying myself and I wasn’t. The purpose of the train is ease and relaxation, but I was not at ease and I was not relaxed. If I had known I would be assigned a seat and not allowed to move to another seat I would not have taken the train. The 2-hour drive is not that bad, if I am not comfortable on the train or if there is a possibility of a confrontation then I will drive. Sitting in my undesirable seat, looking up at the conductor, I really did not want a confrontation. Neither conductor explained the situation nor did they offer any kind of customer service. I had 2 wardens on my hands, not conductors.

Unable to sleep I left my stuff at my seat and went to the viewing car. By this time it was 11:45 pm, we were only in Martinez, the train was now 3 hours late. We were delayed by the long stops and passing freight trains. I returned to my seat, passing several dark, quiet, unoccupied rows. I felt like a child staring into the closed candy store with my mouth watering, but I also had a headache, a stiff neck, my head was exploding and I was angry.

Once, during the long ride, the conductor walked by and barked at a nearby passenger, “No taking up two seats! Sit up ma’am.” The young girl obliged without grumbling. I looked up and down the isle, a plethora of unoccupied seats made me steaming mad.

Around midnight my neighbor woke up, she was chatty. She said she does this long trip frequently and on occasion is assigned a seat, no she didn’t know why. She said Amtrak used to provide free pillows and blankets but they charge now. About 15 minutes later our warden came down the isle with a huge bag of blankets and pillows, what a relief! Both of us were tired, uncomfortable and cold. We excited talked about our conductor’s change of attitude and that we knew things wouldget better. He passed the gifts out much un-like Santa Claus, barking “Do you want one or not?” As he approached us I started to request a pillow and blanket but he looked at the ticket stubs above our heads and passed by with no explanation. I wanted to cry. My neighbor and I laughed bitterly. She guessed it was because we were only going to Sacramento, not Oregon or Washington. We were not privy, in fact, we were second class passengers. I thought, this is a very small taste of Rosa Parks, but she stood up for her rights. Not only did we not get pillow privileges, but we did not know why.

We arrived in Sacramento at 1:45 am. I exited the train feeling betrayed, beat up, and angry. I felt like Amtrak had taken advantage of me as a loyal paying customer. I combed my brain for reasons. The conductors were tired, possibly working overtime, underpaid, and maybe unhealthy with inadequate health coverage to relieve their pain, and maybe they were under-trained or micro managed. I had a warden instead of a conductor. I was subjected to Amtrak’s schedule from 8:40 pm to 1:45 am, I could have driven home in 2 hours. I was subjected to curt treatment, not customer service. I was treated like a prisoner, not a passenger. I paid $57 for my round trip and suffered, I could have driven for the cost of gas, less than $30.

I like to talk about my train experiences. I share them with my friends and family. I am sad that this story will be added to my list. I am also sad knowing that the odds of me getting back on the train are unlikely. I know, maybe it is a bit of an over-reaction. Maybe my next 4 years of train rides will be as pleasant as the last 4 years. Unfortunately, because the drive to San Jose is so easy and never puts me at the mercy of a untrained, underpaid, grumpy, non-service oriented conductor or the apparently illogical Amtrak seating and pillow policy, I will not return as a customer.

Following are recommendations that will cost Amtrak nothing to implement and will ensure that you do not continue to lose your loyal customers :

Notify passengers at the time of purchasing their ticket that they will be assigned a seat. If this is not possible, then notify the passenger at the time they pick up their ticket. If this is not possible, then the conductor should explain to the group of boarding passengers that they will be assigned a seat, and why.

Hire and train conductors capable of reasonable service industry judgments. A conductor should have the wherewithal to allow a passenger to relocate to an unoccupied seat. If the conductor cannot break that rule, he should have the personality to apologize and offer an alternative.

For the passengers who have paid for services that exceed other passengers, separate them. The above example of the pillow and blanket was an infuriating experience and completely avoidable. If you can’t separate them, then do your best to ensure the passengers who do not qualify for the pillow privilege are offered reasonable alternatives, such as a $2 pillow and blanket fee. Please do not make them feel like second-class passengers.

If there is a regularly scheduled train that is consistently late and delayed then fix it.

I am sorry Amtrak, this is a break up letter. I am breaking up with you because my experience from July 31st broke every basic principle that I believe should be associated with the service industry. I have too many options at my disposal to risk another such incident.

Sincerely, A Once Loyal Customer


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## Guest_Amfleet Fan_* (Aug 14, 2007)

Conductors don't generally assign seats, coach attendants do. As for passing out pillows and blankets, coach attendants do that also.

The Conductor is in charge of the operation of the train, not passing out pillows.

What train were you riding?

Before you write a letter accusing a Conductor of poor people skills make sure you have the right employee.



BKolakosky said:


> Dear Amtrak,
> Thank you for your hard work trying to ensure a safe, affordable, and convenient transportation alternative. I have the option of driving but prefer the train because it is relaxing and enjoyable. I have been a loyal customer for 4 years, visiting my San Jose family regularly. I would like to share with you my experience on the evening of July 31st.
> 
> I was returning home from San Jose. I got to the train station and was informed the train was about an hour late, the ticket agent said me this is a common issue with this train and recommended I not take it in the future. This was a foreshadowing the the long evening to follow.
> ...


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 17, 2007)

I have also experienced extremely bad treatment by train attendants. I can sympathize with you. All one wants when they enter a train is a pleasant train trip. There is no place for surliness, rudeness and contempt such as you and I have experienced. I keep hoping Amtrak will wake up, but it just keeps getting worse.

The only explanation I would be able to come up with regarding the rows of empty seats is that the train staff was just plain lazy. If the passengers are not spread out, they don't have to do as much work.

Regarding the conductors, aren't they in charge of what happens in their cars? Don't they have the authority, either due to position or due to just being another human being, of telling the attendant to cool it?

Honestly, I have never had a bad experience with a conductor, but who oversees the actions of the train attendant?


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## had8ley (Aug 17, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> I have also experienced extremely bad treatment by train attendants. I can sympathize with you. All one wants when they enter a train is a pleasant train trip. There is no place for surliness, rudeness and contempt such as you and I have experienced. I keep hoping Amtrak will wake up, but it just keeps getting worse.
> The only explanation I would be able to come up with regarding the rows of empty seats is that the train staff was just plain lazy. If the passengers are not spread out, they don't have to do as much work.
> 
> Regarding the conductors, aren't they in charge of what happens in their cars? Don't they have the authority, either due to position or due to just being another human being, of telling the attendant to cool it?
> ...


I have to agree with Everydaymatters. I rarely see arguments with conductors; they seem to have a smoother way of handling situations. Attendants can, and definitely are, very rude and unaccomodating when they want to be. I think this goes back to the warden theory that the poster gives; "You're mine 'til we get there." Just remember most on board crews are on the train for the entire journey while train and engine (T&E) crews change every 6-8 hours on average. Personally, I have been tempted to de-train in Washington when passing through in hopes of "enlightening" the upper management as to just what is going on in their trains while they sit in their offices. From past experience I would definitely be wasting my time.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 17, 2007)

While I cannot speak for this particular route. I know when I was riding the Regional train last week, the conductors were packing the first two coaches full in Williamsburg VA while the third coach sat empty. This seemed somewhat strange. The Conductor let me and my friend sit in the thirde coach (he actually had to unlock the door to let us in) since there were no other seats available at all. When he let us in, he told us that we had to sit two seats together, and to not let anyone else sit in the coach. This seemed very odd to me until we got to Richmond VA, and the entire coach (and thus the entire train) filled up. Obviously its easier to pack guests in to begin with, rather than letting them sit wherever they want, only to have to move them later on in the trip when crowds start to come. I know that what this conductor did on the Regional was very smart, perhaps something like that was happeing?

Not saying that makes up for the rude behavior. The conductor we had on the Regional was very proffesional, he never sounded rude.


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## printman2000 (Aug 21, 2007)

TVRM610 said:


> The Conductor let me and my friend sit in the thirde coach (he actually had to unlock the door to let us in) since there were no other seats available at all. When he let us in, he told us that we had to sit two seats together, and to not let anyone else sit in the coach.


So you were responsible if other passengers found there way to the 3rd coach?


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## had8ley (Aug 21, 2007)

Everydaymatters said:


> I have also experienced extremely bad treatment by train attendants. I can sympathize with you. All one wants when they enter a train is a pleasant train trip. There is no place for surliness, rudeness and contempt such as you and I have experienced. I keep hoping Amtrak will wake up, but it just keeps getting worse.
> The only explanation I would be able to come up with regarding the rows of empty seats is that the train staff was just plain lazy. If the passengers are not spread out, they don't have to do as much work.
> 
> Regarding the conductors, aren't they in charge of what happens in their cars? Don't they have the authority, either due to position or due to just being another human being, of telling the attendant to cool it?
> ...


Betty;

Something that just struck my bell. #19 & 20 usually have one or two deadhead coaches between New Orleans and Atlanta. They used to cut them off with the mail cars but they blew that contract so they haul two empty coaches over a 1000 miles round trip from Atlanta to New Orleans and return. The train crews usually let me walk to the back and watch the shiny rails from the last coach. Seldom do they open these coaches out of New Orleans and they are always empty coming into NOL.


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## TVRM610 (Aug 22, 2007)

printman2000 said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > The Conductor let me and my friend sit in the thirde coach (he actually had to unlock the door to let us in) since there were no other seats available at all. When he let us in, he told us that we had to sit two seats together, and to not let anyone else sit in the coach.
> ...


Yeah I know. My friend kept making jokes about us being the "gatekeeper". Fortunately no one tried to come back there, otherwise we would have to jump into action ( aka do nothing).


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## darien-l (Aug 23, 2007)

The train in question is clearly Coast Starlight. I would simply avoid taking it between San Jose and Sacramento as it's not really suitable for that short-haul trip due to perpetual tardiness and other issues described above. Stick to Capitol Corridor trains -- there are at least 7 per day, they run on time, and never have assigned seating.


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 25, 2007)

TVRM,

You should have stood there wearing trench coats and said with a foriegn dialect, "vee need to see your papers" if anyone tried to enter the third coach or, "vee vot ways of making you work"! :lol: I was on the CZ in April and the 3rd coach car was "shut off" from the rest of us. We couldn't enter it since there was a large waste recepticle in front of the door. I thought it was odd but there was still room in the 1st and 2nd coaches to sprawl out. It was in late April.


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## Anthony (Aug 25, 2007)

Seats and cars are often assigned based on destination for the convenience of other passengers - so that in the middle of the night, they don't have to go through all the coaches waking everybody up with flashlights and the noise of detraining passengers. If somebody is getting off in the middle of the night, they will sometimes seat them near other passengers getting off in the middle of the night. That allows folks who are getting off the next day to sleep (in theory). 

I can't speak to your experience, but I just thought I would mention that, since I've been "assigned seats" a number of times on the Southwest Chief for exactly that reason.

(Furthermore, placing all passengers getting off at middle-of-the-night stops means they only have to open one door downstairs.)

Also, sometimes if a destination has a short platform, they will assign passengers to a forward coach so that the train doesn't need to do several spot moves to give each car access to the platform.


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## Nickrapak (Sep 13, 2007)

Anthony said:


> Seats and cars are often assigned based on destination for the convenience of other passengers - so that in the middle of the night, they don't have to go through all the coaches waking everybody up with flashlights and the noise of detraining passengers. If somebody is getting off in the middle of the night, they will sometimes seat them near other passengers getting off in the middle of the night. That allows folks who are getting off the next day to sleep (in theory).
> I can't speak to your experience, but I just thought I would mention that, since I've been "assigned seats" a number of times on the Southwest Chief for exactly that reason.
> 
> (Furthermore, placing all passengers getting off at middle-of-the-night stops means they only have to open one door downstairs.)
> ...


I understand that, but why didn't the attendant say "All passengers for _______ please sit in the __th car, as that car will be the only one with doors opening for that stop" or "If you are getting off before _____, please move towards the front of the train".


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## had8ley (Sep 14, 2007)

Nickrapak said:


> Anthony said:
> 
> 
> > Seats and cars are often assigned based on destination for the convenience of other passengers - so that in the middle of the night, they don't have to go through all the coaches waking everybody up with flashlights and the noise of detraining passengers. If somebody is getting off in the middle of the night, they will sometimes seat them near other passengers getting off in the middle of the night. That allows folks who are getting off the next day to sleep (in theory).
> ...


Great question~ the train crews on passenger trains pre-Amtrak used to do it all the time. Now it seems that the on board crews want everyone on board to have as little information as possible.(For a small sum a scanner will answer a LOT of questions enroute without having to track down someone especially in the middle of the night.) I'm not saying every crew is like this but the trend is leaning that way on LD trains. The NE corridor has a lot of riders and eyes watching so they can be more prone to pick up the PA and announce stations and delays. I think it goes back to the training base and how well they follow Amtrak guidelines. It would be interesting to know if that information is indeed contained in Amtrak material used to train new hires.


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## GG-1 (Sep 14, 2007)

had8ley said:


> Great question~ the train crews on passenger trains pre-Amtrak used to do it all the time. Now it seems that the on board crews want everyone on board to have as little information as possible.(For a small sum a scanner will answer a LOT of questions enroute without having to track down someone especially in the middle of the night.) I'm not saying every crew is like this but the trend is leaning that way on LD trains. The NE corridor has a lot of riders and eyes watching so they can be more prone to pick up the PA and announce stations and delays. I think it goes back to the training base and how well they follow Amtrak guidelines. It would be interesting to know if that information is indeed contained in Amtrak material used to train new hires.


Aloha

That use to be the norm when as a kid the family would ride from Philadelphia, NYC, etc. Don't think I have ever heard it recently.


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## Guest_TransAtlantic_* (Sep 17, 2007)

My three cents:

Yes, clearly, this was the Coast Starlight, and is an ALL RESERVED train, as indicated on all of the printed schedules, and online. Seats are assigned, placing single riders together, because (ESPECIALLY after Sacramento) Amtrak wants to keep groups and families seated together, so your 4-year-old won't be sitting next to some creepy guy on the opposite end of the car.

I would NEVER recommend someone who is only going from SJC to SAC to take this train; for one thing, it's usually more expensive than the Capitols or San Joaquins!

Blankets were done away with many, many years ago, at least as a freebie - so if this letter is accurate, this trip must have been taken in the early 1980's.

As far as the "conductor" (more likely, a train attendant) not giving as much information as the writer desired, and being "brusque", perhaps there was a desire not to delay the train any further. Or would the writer rather have the train sit at that station for an extra 30 minutes while John or Mary introduces him or herself to each and every person boarding, giving them a personal escort to their assigned seat?

Obviously, if the rider has flown anywhere in recent years, it wouldn't have been on a short-haul; airline trips over similar distances (or for similar lengths of time) would rarely include pillows or other such items for passengers - these days, one is considered lucky to get a sip of water and a couple of stale pretzels on a plane.

What were the announcements that the writer was expecting? Would it really be fair to the passengers getting of at Klamath Falls, and trying to get a little sleep in the meantime, to make blaring announcements every 15 minutes informing everyone of the train's exact location, the name of the next stop, the location of the restrooms and (by-then-closed) cafe?

p.s. In regard to one of the added comments about "papers", keep in mind that as with ANY form of public transport you are required to maintain a legal, government-issued ID with you, and though Amtrak doesn't do as many spot checks as they could, they still occur, and you could find yourself stuck in Chico in the middle of the night if you don't have one. Once again, read the published schedules (AND the Department of Homeland Security regulations!)


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## NS VIA FAN (Sep 18, 2007)

Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:


> My three cents:Yes, clearly, this was the Coast Starlight, and is an ALL RESERVED train, as indicated on all of the printed schedules, and online. Seats are assigned, placing single riders together, because (ESPECIALLY after Sacramento) Amtrak wants to keep groups and families seated together, so your 4-year-old won't be sitting next to some creepy guy on the opposite end of the car.


..........Or handle it like the Service Manager on VIA did. Upon boarding he told us to feel free to move around. Said if he needed two seats together later on he might ask us to move then. Just good customer service. Something so lacking on Amtrak where the train seams to be run for the convenience of the crews.

Case in point: Amtrak attendant on the Lakeshore insisted people double up when the car was still half empty. (It was reserved so his manifest would give a pretty good indication of the number of people expected down the line) I wanted to get a few pictures out the window as we passed through a certain area so I moved back to the opposite side. Attendant was right on to me. Wanted to see my ticket and told me it wasn’t my seat. I knew that! He already knew that! (There weren’t that many in the car) Just wanted to put on a show! Told me I would have to move as I might “muss-up” the seat for the passengers boarding later. Well those passengers never materialized and we arrived still half empty! He returned to his double seat at the opposite end of the car away from everyone else.


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## TransAtlantic (Sep 18, 2007)

Just a couple of questions: do you want to be awakened in the middle of the night to be moved back to where you were supposed to be, or would you rather sleep (relatively) undisturbed in your assigned seat? Also, would you rather have a fresh headrest cover and pillow, or one that God-knows-who has just been drooling against for the past several hours?


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## NS VIA FAN (Sep 18, 2007)

TransAtlantic said:


> Just a couple of questions: do you want to be awakened in the middle of the night to be moved back to where you were supposed to be, or would you rather sleep (relatively) undisturbed in your assigned seat?


The VIA Service Manager was basically giving you an option. Your could double up now or risk being disturbed later so you could at least enjoy a part of your journey in the comfort of a double seat to yourself. The Service Manager or Attendant has a pretty good idea if the seat will be needed from his manifest. (Not just trying to make less work for themselves in a car running half-empty anyway)

I would also be rather upset if told I couldn't have a window seat when there were plenty available just because the attendant wanted to keep everyone together.



TransAtlantic said:


> Also, would you rather have a fresh headrest cover and pillow, or one that God-knows-who has just been drooling against for the past several hours?


Passengers change at mid-points so there's nothing preventing this from happening anyway. Does the attendant wipe up the drool from the passenger he just woke to get off at Redding for the one getting on there?


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## PerRock (Sep 18, 2007)

Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:


> My three cents:Yes, clearly, this was the Coast Starlight, and is an ALL RESERVED train, as indicated on all of the printed schedules, and online.
> 
> >>SNIP<<
> 
> p.s. In regard to one of the added comments about "papers", keep in mind that as with ANY form of public transport you are required to maintain a legal, government-issued ID with you, and though Amtrak doesn't do as many spot checks as they could, they still occur, and you could find yourself stuck in Chico in the middle of the night if you don't have one. Once again, read the published schedules (AND the Department of Homeland Security regulations!)



From my experience what Amtrak means by "All Reserved" is that you must purchase a ticket ahead of time; and not on board. My local train claims to be "All Reserved" and all one get assigned to is the car.

On a side note. the DHS comment reminded me that once I had the US Border Control board the Empire Builder in Montana... offering no explanation; they boarded went down checking peoples IDs then left.

peter


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