# California Zephyr vs Empire Builder



## marathonwoman (Feb 15, 2012)

My husband and I are starting to plan a trip from Cincinnati to San Francisco. We've never been to the northwest at all, so the Empire Builder route would give us not only that part of the country but also a scenic trip down to San Francisco. But I've read here that most of the daylight part of the Empire route is plains. Would we see any more of the mountains if we take the California Zephyr?

The return route is Texas Eagle.

Appreciate other's experiences.


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## bluemwa (Feb 15, 2012)

Going on the Zephyr, you would be in Denver around 7AM and can usually see the front range of the Rockies from there. Then you hit Granby at 1037AM, which is well into the mountains. You then reach Grand Junction, CO about 4PM which is near the Utah state line. So you would be able to see the Rockies if the train is on time. Then you also hit the Truckee, CA about 930AM the next morning which is in the Sierras so you should be able to see those mountains as well. I don't know anything about the Empire Builder route so I can't compare the two routes for you, but I'm sure someone on here will help with that.


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## Jim G. (Feb 16, 2012)

My wife and I did the EB(west)-CS-CZ(east) last year and I did the CZ(west) a month ago. In both cases the scenery on the CZ was very nice. Crossing the Rockies is a wonderful experience. The EB across the plains can be boring but the Sierra Nevada range, Puget Sound, and the CS(extra night) make up for it. There really is no wrong train. I would be happy on either. It's a tough decision, but I vote CZ.


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## zephyr17 (Feb 16, 2012)

Jim G. said:


> My wife and I did the EB(west)-CS-CZ(east) last year and I did the CZ(west) a month ago. In both cases the scenery on the CZ was very nice. Crossing the Rockies is a wonderful experience. The EB across the plains can be boring but the Sierra Nevada range, Puget Sound, and the CS(extra night) make up for it. There really is no wrong train. I would be happy on either. It's a tough decision, but I vote CZ.


Scenery, CZ - Marias Pass is beautiful, but it is a long day through eastern Montana, which they call Big Sky country because there is not much to see on the ground, whereas the CZ is constant scenery all day leaving Denver, the Front Range, the canyons on the western slope, Ruby Canyon and Book Cliffs, then Donner Pass the next day. You simply can't beat it.

Service, EB. The Builder's diner's service is at the traditional staffing level and wasn't cut back like most other trains a few years ago. As always with Amtrak,onboard service is always YMMV, but the CZ crews generally don't have a great rep. The Builder seems to have more service oriented crews. My own experience is in line with that general perception. Although that is far from a sure thing and your experience on the CZ may well be great and the Builder terrible.


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## jb64 (Feb 16, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> Jim G. said:
> 
> 
> > My wife and I did the EB(west)-CS-CZ(east) last year and I did the CZ(west) a month ago. In both cases the scenery on the CZ was very nice. Crossing the Rockies is a wonderful experience. The EB across the plains can be boring but the Sierra Nevada range, Puget Sound, and the CS(extra night) make up for it. There really is no wrong train. I would be happy on either. It's a tough decision, but I vote CZ.
> ...



While the mountains you traverse on the CZ are spectacular, I also enjoy the prairies on the highline and big sky country. In my opinion, the EB has better scenery the majority of the trip as compared to the CZ because the CZ is rather boring between Chicago and Denver. It only gets good from Denver westward whereas the EB is nice up through Wisconsin and Minnesota, too.

Either trip is great.


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## marathonwoman (Feb 16, 2012)

Many thanks. This is a great place to connect experienced travelers to the uninitiated. I'm packing duct tape and Diet Coke. Thanks!


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## river (Feb 16, 2012)

We just returned from a trip on the California Zephyr. I highly recommend it. The Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas are passed through during the daytime hours. The less interesting scenery (in my opinion) is passed through during the night. Donner Pass was gorgeous. I loved this trip!

If you are taking the Texas Eagle back, does that mean you are taking the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to LA? We did that as well, and it was a beautiful trip close to the Pacific Ocean in the late afternoon and evening. We sat in the Parlor Car after the Wine and Cheese tasting and took in those views from there--watching the sun set over the Pacific OCean.

Both were wonderful trips!


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## abcnews (Feb 16, 2012)

Going westbound - I would vote California Zephyr for the following...

1. Earlier departure from Chicago - I like that it leaves at 2 PM and I really enjoy crossing the Mississippi (same day). I even look forward to Iowa. Gorgeous farmland. Same in NW Illinois.

2. Day two - quite an amazing day - head to the Sightseer Lounge - just after breakfast in Denver. The entire day will be very scenic.

3. Day 3 - Donner Pass, lots of snow and the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

4. better arrival time in San Francisco - perfect. I think the Coast Starlight is a not so great arrival time - as I recall. And the CZ has a bus connection to Fisherman's Wharf. Very convenient A perfect way to end a perfect trip... And the bus connection is included in your ticket.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 16, 2012)

I would suggest the Empire Builder, my favourite Amtrak train. I like the excellent service and I love staring at Big Sky Country for hours. The CZ is slow, often late, and the serivce isn't as good. The meals on the EB are much better, at least in my opinion. Plus the bonus CS ride with the Pacific Parlour Car really finishes it off.

Go Great, Go Empire Builder!


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## marathonwoman (Feb 16, 2012)

OK, the wine and cheese did it. It's EB plus the CS. Thanks for the descriptions of scenery and service.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 17, 2012)

marathonwoman said:


> OK, the wine and cheese did it. It's EB plus the CS. Thanks for the descriptions of scenery and service.



Good choice. Glad to see someone choose my personal favourite.

Somehow the wine and cheese slipped my mind, but I guess it dosen't matter now!


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## Montanan (Feb 17, 2012)

I know that this wasn't one of the choices ... but I'd ride the Zephyr westbound, the Empire Builder eastbound, and skip the Texas Eagle! A day of slowly trundling through central Texas isn't really my idea of fun ... even if it's on a train. 

If I could ride only the Builder or the Zephyr, I'd definitely choose the Zephyr. The differences in service level between the trains are really too subtle to matter much to me ... and the best crew I've ever ridden with was actually on the Zephyr. And the scenery on the Zephyr route is utterly, utterly magnificent.


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## marathonwoman (Feb 17, 2012)

Texas Eagle is mandatory...to see family in Fort Worth. Texas might look boring to some, but it looks and smells like home to me. But ain't that what variety is all about? We're seein' America!


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## bbecker258 (Feb 17, 2012)

I wd choose the cz over the EB WHICH WAS MY CHOICE CUZ I CHOOSE THAT RTG RETURNING FRM GATHERING VI. I WD TAKE THE TE ANYTIME! IT'S ON RAILS BUT I'm DEDICATED FOAMER! LOL. HAPPY TRAILS


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## pennyk (Feb 17, 2012)

Judging by your name, I assume you run marathons.  I am a "retired" marathon runner - now I ride trains and practice yoga - it is a lot better on my body.

I have taken the CZ both eastbound and westbound and have taken the EB eastbound twice. I think the scenery on the CZ is superior, but crew on the EB may be better. The wine tasting is a big plus for the EB.

Whichever route you choose, have a great trip.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Feb 18, 2012)

I thought the EB also offers Wine and Cheese?


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## jb64 (Feb 18, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I thought the EB also offers Wine and Cheese?



Empire Builder does have Wine and Cheese.


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## Bill (Feb 18, 2012)

If you are taking the Cardinal to Chicago...I would suggest the Zephyr to Sacramento and pick up the Starlight to LA and then The Texas Eagle but you must plan carefully as the Cardinal and Eagle are tri weekly trains.It is six dollars a day to park at Union Terminal and you park at the far right closet to the terminal under the lights,go inside and security is immediately on your left,fill out an envelope with car info and # of days gone and have a great time.


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