# Cutting First Class Meals



## TinCan782 (Aug 5, 2014)

On American Airlines.

http://www.businessinsider.com/american-airlines-end-first-class-meal-service-2014-8#


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 5, 2014)

My friend just took a short first class flight on US Airways and did not receive meal service.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 5, 2014)

Hmmmm- First Class Pax @ JFK and MIA will still get meals! Sounds like East Coast bias to me, wonder if any lawyers are looking @ a Class Action on this??

Hope the bean counters @ 60 Mass don't copy this model, thus of us out in flyover country would starve!


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## railiner (Aug 5, 2014)

AA to sink to the level of US Air.....another case of "the tail wagging the dog"....

I like to recall better times, when everyone on a flight received a complete meal, even on a New York to Chicago under two hours in coach, during meal time....


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## GG-1 (Aug 5, 2014)

Aloha

A few weeks ago Hawaiian Airlines provided dinner to coach passengers. Was a nice local style meal.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 5, 2014)

railiner said:


> AA to sink to the level of US Air.....another case of "the tail wagging the dog"....
> 
> I like to recall better times, when everyone on a flight received a complete meal, even on a New York to Chicago under two hours in coach, during meal time....


I know, US Air used be Allegheny. Ha!


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## railiner (Aug 6, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > AA to sink to the level of US Air.....another case of "the tail wagging the dog"....
> ...


And Allegheny started out as "All American"......how ironic.... 

Actually as in the AA-US merger, it seems like America West dominated its merger with US Air....even so far as them using the "Cactus" ATC call sign......


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 6, 2014)

I didn't know they used the "Cactus" call sign. Well, AA uses "American".


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## xyzzy (Aug 6, 2014)

"Welcome to the new American."

But look... check any American domestic flight, aside from the ones designed premium transcons (e.g. JFK-LAX), and you'll find that 8 out of 10 passengers sitting in first class are on free upgrades (that's how I get there) or frequent flyer awards. 1 out of the 2 remaining is traveling business class on an international connecting flight, so he/she gets domestic F automatically. The last passenger has actually purchased a domestic F ticket. Given such a breakdown, it's not hard to understand why domestic F is becoming nothing more than a better seat that appeases the top-tier frequent flyers.


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## cirdan (Aug 6, 2014)

xyzzy said:


> "Welcome to the new American."
> 
> But look... check any American domestic flight, aside from the ones designed premium transcons (e.g. JFK-LAX), and you'll find that 8 out of 10 passengers sitting in first class are on free upgrades (that's how I get there) or frequent flyer awards. 1 out of the 2 remaining is traveling business class on an international connecting flight, so he/she gets domestic F automatically. The last passenger has actually purchased a domestic F ticket. Given such a breakdown, it's not hard to understand why domestic F is becoming nothing more than a better seat that appeases the top-tier frequent flyers.


On the other hand, you could say this is loyalty schemes gone crazy. I'm always surprised how airlines will bend backwards to appear to be giving something for free to loyalty card holders without seeing how their poor treatment of the rest of us is actually alienating first time and infrequent customers.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 6, 2014)

There are winners and losers. As a regular customer of US Airways, the AA/US harmonized first class meal policy represents an improvement. The old US policy was meals only for flights of 3hr 30min or more. I was once in First on a US flight from PIT to DEN scheduled for 3hr 29min. No meal. One stinking minute.

The low point for US Airways service in First came about ten years ago during their pre-merger bankruptcy. My wife and I were in F for a PHL-SFO flight and eagerly(?) looking forward to our dinner on the 6pm departure. Our meal? Our choice of one of the buy-on-board cold sandwich boxes being sold in the back. It was served in the box. It was a new (and short-lived) policy, and our poor flight attendant said she was ashamed to have to serve that meal. I recall a woman in front of us, a regular, asking as she boarded what was for dinner. The attendant replied, "don't ask." At least the wine was nice, albeit served in a plastic cup.


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## Green Maned Lion (Aug 6, 2014)

Why I don't fly- let me count the ways. Sheesh.


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## xyzzy (Aug 6, 2014)

From the perspective of AA+US, DL, and UA, less than 10% of their customers are generating more than 90% of their revenue. The response by AA+US, DL, UA is predictable and uniform across the three. The same thing is happening in the major hotel chains who have discovered the same 90/10 situation, but it's not so obvious because you don't see the upgrades and perks given to their top-tier customers.

If you look at the history of three of the airlines that were merged into today's US (Alleghany, Piedmont, PSA), they were primarily short-haul operators. By the mid-1980s they had eliminated most meal service in either F or Y. For that matter, Piedmont had eliminated F entirely although they did reinstate it shortly before the US+PI deal -- mostly becase PI noticed that they were losing ground to other airlines who were offering cheap F upgrades to frequent flyers.

By 1983 or 1984, the airlines were selling domestic F upgrades at $10-20-30 based on flight length. Then it went to $15-30-45 and finally $20-40-60. At that point the frequent flyer programs were tiered, and free upgrades were handed out to the top tier. Been that way since the early 1990s.


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## jis (Aug 6, 2014)

It should be noted too that a significant part of the new management of the merged AA-US comes from US. By far the US management team was considered to be more dynamic of the two.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 6, 2014)

US Airways (America West) has been rather unpleasant in my experience. Tiny cramped regional aircraft. Rampant technical problems. Sour airport and on-board staff and a shockingly ignorant reservations desk. I cannot think of any redeeming qualities at the moment. American was hardly a great airline, and the history of the DFW fortress hub is truly ridiculous, but AA had still some of the least restrictive upgrade options and most generous redemption options. Now that America West is in charge my guess is that it's all downhill from here. I wonder how long before the next wave of consolidation hits and we look back on today's high prices and poor service as some sort of golden age.


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## xyzzy (Aug 6, 2014)

I agree, mostly. The last CEO of AA to turn in a good, sustained performance was Fang Crandall, 1982-1998. Fang wasn't perfect -- I'd argue that he went on cruise control in his final years -- but AA was still in decent condition when he retired. Donald Carty didn't accomplish much before he was forced out. Gerard Arpey tried to preserve the status quo of the 1990s but failed. We will never know what Tom Horton might have accomplished if he hadn't been ejected by Doug Parker, but that's how it goes.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 6, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> US Airways (America West) has been rather unappealing in my experience. Tiny cramped regional aircraft. Rampant technical problems. Sour airport and on-board staff. Shockingly ignorant reservations staff. I cannot think of any redeeming qualities. American was hardly a great airline but it served its purpose and now that America West is in charge my guess is that it's all downhill from here. I wonder how long before the next wave of consolidation hits and we look back on today's high prices and poor service as some sort of golden age.


A few years ago, I went to a talk given by the then Philadelphia Director of Aviation (fancy title for the airport GM). He said he had good news and bad news about PHL. The good news was that US Airways had a hub at PHL. The bad news was that _US Airways _had a hub at PHL.

Given geography, I'm kind of captive to US for my travels. I can say that things have gotten considerably better since the dark days of the mid-2000's, even though the bar for improvement was set pretty low.


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## fairviewroad (Aug 6, 2014)

Hmm, so does this mean no meals on any flight from Washington to Baltimore?


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## fairviewroad (Aug 6, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> Hmmmm- First Class Pax @ JFK and MIA will still get meals! Sounds like East Coast bias to me, wonder if any lawyers are looking @ a Class Action on this??


Um, not exactly. The AA website specifies that only certain "short" routes will still get meals. Those include four destinations out of JFK

and only two out of MIA.

Meanwhile, the "exceptions" include seven destinations out of ORD and three out of DFW.

Doesn't sound like an "east coast bias" to me.


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## xyzzy (Aug 6, 2014)

The big losers in the new plan are AA mainline routes in/out of ORD and MIA. Of course, a lot of ORD flying was handed to American Eagle years ago. DFW is hit to a lesser extent simply because those segments tend to be longer.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 6, 2014)

In my opinion, airlines only care about their loyal customers, because they are the only ones worth keeping. The other customers book the lowest fare possible, almost every time. And the other customers only fly because they have to, not because they want to.

I don't fly enough to take advantage of airline rewards, and I don't have to fly anywhere because I don't need to get anywhere far and fast, so I don't fly unless I need to go over water.


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## railiner (Aug 7, 2014)

xyzzy said:


> I agree, mostly. The last CEO of AA to turn in a good, sustained performance was Fang Crandall, 1982-1998. Fang wasn't perfect -- I'd argue that he went on cruise control in his final years -- but AA was still in decent condition when he retired. Donald Carty didn't accomplish much before he was forced out. Gerard Arpey tried to preserve the status quo of the 1990s but failed. We will never know what Tom Horton might have accomplished if he hadn't been ejected by Doug Parker, but that's how it goes.


And C R Smith must be rolling in his grave, over what they've done to his once proud company.....

It's been a long time since they could claim this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RB4NuoOQi0


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 10, 2014)

Great vid!


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 10, 2014)

railiner said:


> xyzzy said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, mostly. The last CEO of AA to turn in a good, sustained performance was Fang Crandall, 1982-1998. Fang wasn't perfect -- I'd argue that he went on cruise control in his final years -- but AA was still in decent condition when he retired. Donald Carty didn't accomplish much before he was forced out. Gerard Arpey tried to preserve the status quo of the 1990s but failed. We will never know what Tom Horton might have accomplished if he hadn't been ejected by Doug Parker, but that's how it goes.
> ...


That commercial fits perfectly with my earliest memories of American Airlines. I remember that flying was a really big deal back then, or at least to me it was. Having to visit a travel agent to find out which airline you'd be flying. Keeping track of printed tickets with carbon copy sheets. Back then they still served food on domestic flights and provided numerous nicknacks for children. Even though I was a bit of a country bumpkin back then they treated me very well and I always got where I was supposed to go. I cannot remember being fawned over so much anywhere else. These days even international first class isn't on the same service level as being a kid in coach was back then. Fond memories.


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