# Stuck Horn



## leemell (Jun 20, 2013)

OK, this isn't even passenger related, but it is locomotive related. We live less than a mile from the UP Ventura line in the San Fernando Valley. In the very early hours Wednesday morning I was awakened by a loco horn (because of the hour it was almost certainly a freight). But this wasn't just the usual long and short blasts. It was continuous and did not stop while the the train was in the area. Because of that I believe the horn was stuck on. What should an engineer do in those circumstances? This guy just chose to drive on, making a horrendous racket for a mile or more on either side of the track.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 20, 2013)

Well, I guess it was a blessing for you that he kept going rather than stopping! :giggle:


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## fairviewroad (Jun 20, 2013)

Is that legal, though? Wouldn't that violate the rules about the horn pattern required prior to grade crossings?


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## SarahZ (Jun 20, 2013)

I imagine disengaging the horn (fuse or whatnot) would be even worse, as the train is now running silent. Better to have it on continuously until it can reach the nearest area for repair.

I'm not an engineer, so this is pure speculation.


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## the_traveler (Jun 20, 2013)

Maybe it was not "stuck" but used as a warning because a line of dumb___ drivers kept going thru the crossings!


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## leemell (Jun 20, 2013)

Probably not, I could hear him moving from start to not hearing of the other way of about two-three miles. Other than the train, it was very quiet.


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## Ryan (Jun 20, 2013)

The horns run on air pressure - if a valve gets stuck open, there really isn't much of anything that you can do.

Same thing happened to a friend of mine that had an air horn on his truck - some ice got into the valve and he discharged the entire contents of his air tank through the horn. Took about 5 minutes and really pissed off the neighbors. But, if the valve won't close, it won't close...


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## MikefromCrete (Jun 20, 2013)

About a year ago, a freight train on the Union Pacific/CSX line about two miles from my house was stopped at a signal in Steger, IL., with its horn continually blasting. I could hear it from my house, I hated to think what its was doing to people who live next to the tracks. This was at 7 a.m. I imagine the track finally moved (trains are often stopped in this location, waiting for clearance on to various Chicago area destinations), but it must have been hell for those close to the tracks. I imagine the horn was stuck and there wasn't much to be done until it could reach a shop facility. These things happen.


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## AlanB (Jun 20, 2013)

While I don't pretend to be an expert on all of this, here's a few thoughts.

1) If the valve was stuck open, I have to wonder if that wouldn't eventually cause the train to stop from low air pressure.

2) AFAIK, a continuously blowing horn constitutes a non-working horn, just like one that won't blow at all. An engine with a non-functional horn cannot be operated period according to FRA regs.


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## Shortline (Jun 21, 2013)

AlanB said:


> While I don't pretend to be an expert on all of this, here's a few thoughts.
> 1) If the valve was stuck open, I have to wonder if that wouldn't eventually cause the train to stop from low air pressure.
> 
> 2) AFAIK, a continuously blowing horn constitutes a non-working horn, just like one that won't blow at all. An engine with a non-functional horn cannot be operated period according to FRA regs.


1. No-The horn uses very little air comparitive to the output of the compressor, so it could keep going until the loco runs out of fuel, and then probably take more than an hour, to use up all the air. And, the horn will not affect the brakes-there are two separate air resevoirs on locomotives, with a one way check valve between them-i.e. the air brakes use air from one, auxilliary equipment like horns, use the other, and even if it's pressure drops, it won't reduce pressure in the other, affecting braking or other critical equipment. To silence a stuck horn, there is a valve that can be shut to cut off the air to the horn- on older locomotives it's in the control stand-Just turn it, and the horn is cut out and sileneced. Problem is, it usually requires tools to remove the panel to access it-Some engineers carry tools, or a leatherman/Gerber like tool, and can get in, others don't. No tools, no access. I'm not sure where the cutout is on newer desktop control stand locomotives, but I assume it's also similarly inaccessible. Mechanics don't want engineers messing with stuff....

2. Yes, and no-Horns must be operable on the lead locomotive when departing a terminal. En-route, if the horn fails, as in, doesn't work or is stuck on, the train can continue, by ringing the bell continuously, and the train must stop at each crossing to have the Conductor/Trainman flag and protect the crossing, unless the crossing is equipped with gates that are fully lowered, or there is no traffic stopped at, or approaching the crossing, in which case the train can continue moving, and then get repaired or switched around at the next terminal.

There are a few ways to correct this, either cutting out the horn if you can get to the cutoff, or if the horn is stuck on, and can't be shut off, and they're going to send someone to fix it right there, the engineer could secure the train and close the Main Reservoir angle **** between the lead, and any trailing locomotives to keep from charging the lead air system from trailing unit compressors, shut down the locomotive, or disengage the air compressor, and bleed off the air from the Main Resevoir manually. Takes just a few minutes, and will shut it up. In that case however, the train can't be operated, because the brake system on the lead loco is now no longer functioning properly, so they'll have to come to fix it on the spot. Which, is much better than having to run a train with the horn blowing non-stop!


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