# Is enrolling in Guest Rewards worth it for infrequent Amtrak traveler?



## MIrailfan (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm thinking about it before I take round trip Business class to Chicago on Wolverine.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 9, 2021)

I have it though I’m not a frequent rider. I got the credit cards and use one for my everyday purchases (and pay it off twice a month). This is how I accumulate most of my points. I’ve taken yearly long distance trips using mostly points.


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## railiner (Apr 9, 2021)

Not taking points, even for an occasional rider, is like throwing away money. I ride on average, maybe once a year. I am slowly accumulating points, which I will eventually use.


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## PaTrainFan (Apr 9, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I have it though I’m not a frequent rider. I got the credit cards and use one for my everyday purchases (and pay it off twice a month). This is how I accumulate most of my points. I’ve taken yearly long distance trips using mostly points.



Same for me. Purchases (presuming you do not carry a balance) make the card worthwhile.


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## joelkfla (Apr 9, 2021)

But are the AGR points for non-Amtrak purchases more valuable than the 1.5%-3% you can get on other no-fee cards? How much are points worth compared to cash towards a ticket?


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## jis (Apr 9, 2021)

If I did not have the Fee AGR Card I would probably never have made Select+, and these days would not even make Select. The TQP from that card makes all the difference when added to the actual travel related TQPs.


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## amtkstn (Apr 9, 2021)

I joined the program in 2005. It took me until 2019 to get enough points to pay for a trip. Have only took one trip a year during that period. Need to have activity on your account in three years or you lose your points.


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## jis (Apr 9, 2021)

amtkstn said:


> Need to have activity on your account in three years or you lose your points.


To preserve the points, one way is to just get the free AGR Credit Card.

OTOH, if one does not travel much and has really not much desire to try to get a "free" ride or two, then there is no point in becoming an AGR member, so the rest becomes irrelevant.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 9, 2021)

railiner said:


> Not taking points, even for an occasional rider, is like throwing away money. I ride on average, maybe once a year. I am slowly accumulating points, which I will eventually use.


It's like throwing away money that suffers perpetual hyperinflation.


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## willem (Apr 9, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's like throwing away money that suffers perpetual hyperinflation.


Thanks. That's what I was trying to formulate, and you said it well.


joelkfla said:


> But are the AGR points for non-Amtrak purchases more valuable than the 1.5%-3% you can get on other no-fee cards? How much are points worth compared to cash towards a ticket?


You are quite right to think of the opportunity cost of using an AGR credit card. I figure an AGR point is worth about 2.5¢, so it can compare favorably to other no-fee cards. (I believe Amtrak pretends it is worth 2.9¢, and there is a difference that I don't recall between using points on or off the NEC.) However, AGR points are good on Amtrak and cash is good almost everywhere. A points redemption is always undiscounted, so they are worth less to those who would otherwise qualify for a discount. Even though there are no blackout dates, on the dates that would have been blacked out, the value of the point is cut, sometimes dramatically. In other words, a point is not always worth 2.5¢; it can be worth much less.


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## NEPATrainTraveler (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm an infrequent Amtrak traveler and I am a member of Guest Rewards. I didn't sign up for it for my first trip because I wasn't sure when I would be riding Amtrak again, but after having a good experience with Amtrak and joining this forum, I decided to sign up for AGR. Nice thing about AGR is that they will sometimes have Double Days during the Spring and Fall where you earn double the points. You have to opt in for Double Days via your AGR account. I opted in for Fall Double Days in 2018 and got double the points for my LSL and Hiawatha trips. I don't have the AGR credit card, so I don't have a ton of points. Since the rewards program is free I say sign up for it even if you can't travel by Amtrak a lot.


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## PaTrainFan (Apr 9, 2021)

I haven't delved deeply into the math, but the bonus one gets from opening a new card and making the requsite purchases inside three months could be worthwhile, though it can be a wait. While I have had the "World Card" for some time, I recently opened the standard card, and vola, I have 12,000 additional points to use down the road.


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## me_little_me (Apr 9, 2021)

Yes, it is worth it. Get someone to suggest you to Amtrak and you both get 500 points. If you are traveling with someone who is also not a member, then once you get your membership, suggest them for membership and you and your partner both get 500 points.
The suggester provides the recipient's email to Amtrak and they will send an invitation. The recipient must then join using that invitation to get the points.

Now, joining Amtrak's frequent travel system does NOT require that you have an Amtrak credit card and, in fact, since it is run by BoA, you might not wish to do so because they are not the nicest of companies to deal with. However, if you get their free card, you get double points on Amtrak purchases and points never expire. I use my card ONLY to travel on Amtrak and for nothing else because I dislike BoA so much. It is worth using it to get the upfront bonus points but don't count on any later offers working.

If you choose not to get the card, your points are good for 3 years but it is 3 years from your last activity. So you can go to Amtrak Shopping and buy something from one of the many stores that give points for buying and, even if you only sped $1 and get only one point, your points will not expire for 3 years from that date.

Years ago, I joined all the frequent flyer/frequent stayer/frequent anything programs. On nearly all of them, I eventually got something of value for being a member even though at the time I never expected to earn any more points as it was inconvenient to use them again. However, life changes, and what you never expected to use suddenly becomes useful and that hotel or restaurant chain or airline you joined and used once just got bought out by your favorite hotel or restaurant chain or airline and now you have extra points you never expected.

And, hopefully, Amtrak will come through with the promise they made when they cut the value of the points. At that time, they said you would soon be able to use points in combination with cash. And remember, if you don't have enough points to go to Chicago on a future trip, you can use your points to buy a ticket part way then use cash to pay for the rest with a separate ticket on the same train.


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## sttom (Apr 9, 2021)

When it comes to loyalty points, at least in my experience there are 3 variables you need to take into consideration; the frequency at which you accumulate them, the rate at which they are devalued/expire and how the points are exchanged for things. I've used both the Amtrak Guest Rewards program and Southwest's Rapid Rewards. Not the credit card version just the straight rider ones. I have more experience with the Amtrak program because when I was in high school, I would use Amtrak to get to the Bay Area from Reno 3-4 times per year and used to accumulate the reward points. Over the 4 or so years of me accumulating points, I never accumulated enough to exchange them for anything so I stopped. I have used Amtrak many times since 2013, but I haven't bothered with the AGR points. My trips are too infrequent and low valued for the points to matter much in the long run. Its basically the same story with Southwest. I use them maybe once per year and the only reason why I have the account is because they have consolidated it into their app/reservation system. 

As for how quickly the points devalue, I don't know about Amtrak, but I know credit card issuers will every so often. This is usually done by changing the number of points required to purchase something. On the Amtrak front, back when I did collect the points I remember it being hard to exchange the points for travel which gets to point #3 and the main reason why I stopped collecting them. Hopefully some of these things have changed since 2013 with Amtrak, but if you are an infrequent rider it could take a long time for the points to be worth something and the points could be devalued between now and then. 

On the credit card front, I do have a Capital One card with reward points and I personally like that better. Volume wise I am actually accumulating enough points that it will be worth something far sooner than the AGR points would have been. I'm sure Amtrak's partnered credit card is better as far as reward points go, assuming you have the credit history and think you are responsible enough with credit. As far as my situation goes, getting a cobranded credit card would make more sense to get one with an airline like United than it would with Amtrak. An airline card would at least get me out of bag fees which is worth it to me.


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## City of Miami (Apr 9, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> But are the AGR points for non-Amtrak purchases more valuable than the 1.5%-3% you can get on other no-fee cards? How much are points worth compared to cash towards a ticket?


When you use points the conversion is based on the full (value) fare so at best that's about 2¢/pt based on the saver fare which is usually available at the same time as much as 25% less than the value fare. On sleeper or bc trips you get 2.89¢/point conversion factor because there is no saver fare offered, discounts and promotions never apply. I stopped using my Amtrak Visa card some time ago in favor of 1.5% cash back MC. What is the 3% cash back no fee card please?


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## MIrailfan (Apr 9, 2021)

I'll sign up tonight so I can start earning points.


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## jebr (Apr 9, 2021)

There's little reason not to sign up for it. It's been years since I signed up, but I don't recall the amount of information given to be any more than what's asked for when buying a ticket online with a credit card. (If you're especially privacy conscious, there may be a bit more information that I don't recall or the use policy is more broad - I haven't looked closely.) Even if the points devalue in the future, getting AGR points for Amtrak travel doesn't cost you any more for the ticket, and there's nothing you're giving up by earning them. They work with any payment method as well, so you can still use your preferred credit card, cash, or gift card to buy them if you want.

There's a lot of other ways to earn points, but most of them require giving up earning potential elsewhere. As a couple of examples, the points for shopping portal means that you lose the ability to use a different cash/points back portal (like Rakuten) and using the credit card means that you're earning Amtrak points instead of whatever rewards you'd earn with a different credit card. Currently the points are _generally_ worth 2.89¢/point on either the prevailing _value coach or standard sleeper_ fare, without the ability to use any additional coupons or discounts. That means, if you travel coach, you lose value over the saver fare, and with any fare you can't use any of the discounts Amtrak offers, 2-for-1 discounts, upgrade/companion coupons, etc. Thus, whether to opt for AGR points over cash back or other points for these other activities is a bit dependent on your travel habits, how likely you are to quickly use points earned (AGR can devalue them at any time,) etc. I've opted to switch to the cash back world, but everyone's travel habits and desires are different.

Note that they do expire 24 months after your last activity (it's went down from 36 months) but any activity (even a purchase through the AGR shopping portal or survey that earns AGR points) counts.


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## joelkfla (Apr 10, 2021)

City of Miami said:


> When you use points the conversion is based on the full (value) fare so at best that's about 2¢/pt based on the saver fare which is usually available at the same time as much as 25% less than the value fare. On sleeper or bc trips you get 2.89¢/point conversion factor because there is no saver fare offered, discounts and promotions never apply. I stopped using my Amtrak Visa card some time ago in favor of 1.5% cash back MC. What is the 3% cash back no fee card please?


B of A has a card that lets you select one out of several categories to receive 3% back. You can change it once a month. I've had "online purchases" selected for a while; it was especially useful when I was ordering my groceries online for curbside pickup before I got vaccinated. It seems to include just about anything purchased on the internet, for delivery or in-store pickup.

Another category is "home improvement", which includes Home Depot type stores, hardware & furniture stores, and contractors like plumbers & A/C repair. I switched to it for a month when I had some work done on my A/C.

There's also a travel category, which includes airlines, railroads, hotels, admissions, etc. 

The 3% back is limited to $2500 in purchases per quarter.

I know some people hate B of A, but I haven't had any problems with the credit card service. They were slow in closing out a fraudulent charge claim, but it was just a minor annoyance. I wouldn't use them for everyday banking, or to carry a balance on the card, as they do have higher than average fees and interest charges.


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## jiml (Apr 10, 2021)

Non-residents can only accumulate AGR points by actual rail travel (not credit card), and yet I've managed to cash in a couple of times. My last use was two Pacific Surfliner tickets in Business Class pre-Covid and I have enough points to do it again. Excellent value that costs nothing.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 10, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> B of A has a card that lets you select one out of several categories to receive 3% back. You can change it once a month. I've had "online purchases" selected for a while; it was especially useful when I was ordering my groceries online for curbside pickup before I got vaccinated. It seems to include just about anything purchased on the internet, for delivery or in-store pickup.
> 
> Another category is "home improvement", which includes Home Depot type stores, hardware & furniture stores, and contractors like plumbers & A/C repair. I switched to it for a month when I had some work done on my A/C.
> 
> ...


I agree, wish Amtrak would have stayed with Chase!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 10, 2021)

Many years ago the rules and valuations were quite different. Today's loyalty programs are only worth a minimum of effort in my view. If the points show up on the first try great. If not there is little reason to spend much time chasing after them and even less reason to change your purchasing decisions in order to buy more points. It could take an infrequent traveler a decade or more to earn enough points for a bucket list trip before the next devaluation. Big point offers may look good at first but they also indicate that a product or service is highly overpriced or really unpopular.


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 13, 2021)

If you're planning to be even an infrequent Amtrak rider I don't see any downside to having the no-fee AGR card. Very happy with mine (although, as Jim noted, the product was better when it was Chase. Then again all good things get devalued over time). Anyway, if there's any kind of signup bonus, that will be your best value. After that, it's more how you look at things. For example I'm not willing to drill too deeply into the fractions of dollars and cents - more stress than it's worth. I like the concept of accumulating AGR points for purchases, and the extra points when using it to purchase Amtrak travel. When the account accumulates enough points for redemption, for me the real value is having the "cash" on hand to pay for, or at least defray the costs of, a trip. That cash-flow situation probably doesn't apply for many people; and it's not like I don't understand it's possible to maximize card benefits in different ways. It's just that I place more value on peace of mind solutions.


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## VAtrainfan (Apr 13, 2021)

Every time I fly an airline I've never flown before, I sign up for their FF program, in case I end up flying them again. But even if I never do, many of them have programs where you can donate your miles to organizations like Make-A-Wish. I've done that with my unused Frontier and Southwest miles.

As far as Amtrak, I have made use of the aforementioned Double Days promotions to get a couple of freebies from my once-or-twice-a-year NEC runs. After a couple of years of visiting my family near LNC, I usually have enough points for a one-way on the same route.


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 14, 2021)

Another data point - BC on the Wolverine is excellent AGR redemption value, even if the paid fare amount is not worth it from my perspective. Accumulating the points takes far less time than saving up for a sleeper car trip obviously. For an annual vacation trip to Chicago with family, there's an additional subjective element involved, to have free transportation in BC, which is why I don't always like to compare rewards programs strictly based on dollars and cents.


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