# AMTRAK and Real IDs



## Eric in East County (Nov 18, 2019)

Pat and I will be renewing our California driver’s licenses in the next few weeks. At that time, we will also be applying for our REAL ID cards. As many of you are already aware, the federal REAL ID Act places new rules on which forms of identification may be used to board flights within the U.S., enter secure federal facilities, such as military bases, federal courthouses, etc. We believe this goes into effect in October 2020. Although someone might already have brought this up, will AMTRAK fall under the REAL ID Act and will passengers be required to produce a REAL ID when requested?

Eric & Pat


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 18, 2019)

Good question. Also, if you have a valid passport, will you still need a REAL ID for any of these?


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 18, 2019)

I'm currently unaware of any law, rule, or intention for Amtrak to require the new TSA ID.

Here are thirteen pages of Internal Details, Updates, and Clarifications: https://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Amtrak-ID-2018-03-19.pdf


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## flitcraft (Nov 18, 2019)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Good question. Also, if you have a valid passport, will you still need a REAL ID for any of these?


A passport qualifies, as does a Global Entry or Nexus card.


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## jis (Nov 18, 2019)

Or a Passport Card. 

Fortunately newly issued FL Drivers License these days is RealId by default. Has the “Star” on it.


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## seat38a (Nov 18, 2019)

Without realID or other approved ID's you won't be able to enter Federal Facilities. Does Amtrak have any facilities or assets that might fall under "Federal Facilities" that could cause problems?


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 18, 2019)

seat38a said:


> Without realID or other approved ID's you won't be able to enter Federal Facilities. Does Amtrak have any facilities or assets that might fall under "Federal Facilities" that could cause problems?


There are a wide range of "Federal Facilities" and Individual locations can still set their own requirements and exceptions. Outside of the TSA, the primary difference after October 2020 is that non-compliant state identification will no longer be recognized as a valid form of primary identification at Federal facilities. Accepting alternative forms of identification, including admittance without identification, can still be managed by the individual facility.


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## MikefromCrete (Nov 18, 2019)

Amtrak's passenger stations are public facilties. There's certainly no top secret government worked being done there. Everything I've read about Real ID's indicate they are for domestic airline flights and secured government facilties, no mention of Amtrak at all. The whole program seems like a wild overreaction.


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## Barb Stout (Nov 18, 2019)

MikefromCrete said:


> Amtrak's passenger stations are public facilties. There's certainly no top secret government worked being done there. Everything I've read about Real ID's indicate they are for domestic airline flights and secured government facilties, no mention of Amtrak at all. The whole program seems like a wild overreaction.


However, it is my understanding and I really hope I'm incorrect, that local social security departments would require a Real ID. That would be totally insane, so I really hope that is incorrect.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 18, 2019)

...


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## Skyline (Nov 18, 2019)

Barb Stout said:


> However, it is my understanding and I really hope I'm incorrect, that local social security departments would require a Real ID. That would be totally insane, so I really hope that is incorrect.



But would the SS office accept a current passport instead?


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## zephyr17 (Nov 18, 2019)

A passport is a Real ID compliant document


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## PVD (Nov 18, 2019)

*Amtrak ID standards from their website make no mention of Real ID compliance, and looking at the list, you can see why....*

*What is a Valid ID?*
To be valid, your identification must be current and in-force. The following forms of identification are acceptable for persons 18 and older:


One piece of photo identification issued by a government authority, or
Two pieces of identification, at least one of which is issued by a government authority
Examples of acceptable forms of ID include:


State or provincial driver's license
Passport
Official government-issued identification (federal, state, city or county government or foreign government)
Canadian provincial health card ID card with photo
Military photo ID
Student identification (university, college or high school photo ID)
Job Corps photo ID


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## crescent-zephyr (Nov 18, 2019)

RealID for domestic travel really shouldn’t be a thing imho but here we are.


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## Qapla (Nov 18, 2019)

From what I understand, it is true that the Real ID goes into effect in Oct 2020 and could impact many domestic air travel plans if people do not get their ID updated.

I have not heard that it will have any impact on Amtrak as far as boarding the train to travel domestic - however, I do understand that, once the Real ID goes into operation you will be able to ride Amtrak in/out of Canada with the Real ID and not need a passport card/passport.

I have a Real ID - I do not have a passport.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 18, 2019)

Qapla said:


> I do understand that, once the Real ID goes into operation you will be able to ride Amtrak in/out of Canada with the Real ID and not need a passport card/passport.


Nope. 


> REAL ID cards cannot be used for border crossings into Canada, Mexico or other international travel.



Link: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs


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## PVD (Nov 18, 2019)

People often confuse Real ID with Enhanced Drivers License. A small number of states, having a large volume of cross border traffic, are authorized to issue a license (only to a US citizen) that is embedded with info that can be read at a border crossing. My NY issued EDL is Real ID compliant since the documentation required to obtain it meets the statute. It has a flag instead of a star. Airline passenger lists are (supposedly) analyzed against no fly and enhanced screening lists, so it is more important that the ID itself is more likely to be the actual person presenting it Or so the story goes....


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## adamj023 (Nov 18, 2019)

Eric in East County said:


> Pat and I will be renewing our California driver’s licenses in the next few weeks. At that time, we will also be applying for our REAL ID cards. As many of you are already aware, the federal REAL ID Act places new rules on which forms of identification may be used to board flights within the U.S., enter secure federal facilities, such as military bases, federal courthouses, etc. We believe this goes into effect in October 2020. Although someone might already have brought this up, will AMTRAK fall under the REAL ID Act and will passengers be required to produce a REAL ID when requested?
> 
> Eric & Pat



The implementation of RealID was done poorly. I have a passport which is RealID compliant. I refuse to give the state DMV additional documents as a passport alone qualifies me for RealID which I have. I don’t mind a citizenship check for ID but the process is tedious and overreaching as all the information is already on file and can be determined beforehand by security agencies. I will never get a RealID drivers license which requires added documents and a long wait time.

Amtrak could decide to implement RealID but I haven’t explicitly seen this required. The State DMV scares people into getting a RealID even if they have one already.

Passport, passport card, enhanced drivers license are all RealID as well as Global Entry, TSA Pre and trusted traveler programs and other forms of ID as listed as RealID compliant.

The State DMV is the most tedious way of getting one although the Enhanced Drivers License is the most convenient as it has a passport card and a state drivers license in one card.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Nov 18, 2019)

I guess I am unique here in that I don't fly. So, having a Real ID is of little-to-no use to me.

I have a passport, and if I need to do something that requires me to show-my-papers (as I was taught, when young, is always required in evil totalitarian communist countries), I will simple use it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 18, 2019)

adamj023 said:


> I will never get a RealID drivers license which requires added documents and a long wait time.


I believe all or nearly all states are using compliant licenses at this point. So will you cease driving when your current license expires, or are you going to continue driving without documentation? My compliant license took no extra time and required no additional documentation.


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## adamj023 (Nov 18, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I believe all or nearly all states are using compliant licenses at this point. So will you cease driving when your current license expires, or are you going to continue driving without documentation? My compliant license took no extra time and required no additional documentation.



License says not for federal purposes. They require added documentation to convert to a RealID which I am not doing. They will not force us to get compliant licenses. RealID is NOT nor ever will be required for driving inside the USA. All states require added documentation for RealID unless the same added level of documentation was given such as for enhanced drivers license.


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## chakk (Nov 19, 2019)

adamj023 said:


> License says not for federal purposes. They require added documentation to convert to a RealID which I am not doing. They will not force us to get compliant licenses. RealID is NOT nor ever will be required for driving inside the USA. All states require added documentation for RealID unless the same added level of documentation was given such as for enhanced drivers license.



For a RealID, Calif requires that you show a birth cerificate or passport and two other documents with your name and address. I think I showed my passport, an insurance statement and a credit card bill. Took no longer than a regular license and no appointment required -- just walked in. Was out in 45 minutes (including another eye test and written exam) and RealID arrived in mail in 7 days. I'm ready should Amtrak ever require it.


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## bms (Nov 19, 2019)

Amtrak on board staff has never asked me for any ID at all in 20 years of riding. so I doubt they're going to have a strict policy by next year. I did need ID to change my reservation at a ticket counter.


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## John Santos (Nov 19, 2019)

I also needed to leave my license at the desk to use the shower at CUS's Metro Lounge, but I doubt they cared if it was a US driver's license or Real ID or whatever. I think they just wanted to get the key to the shower back. That's the only time I've needed an ID for Amtrak (that I can remember.) Since turning 65, my ticket has always said I'll need to show an ID to confirm my senior discount, but they've never asked for one.


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## Anderson (Nov 19, 2019)

adamj023 said:


> The implementation of RealID was done poorly. I have a passport which is RealID compliant. I refuse to give the state DMV additional documents as a passport alone qualifies me for RealID which I have. I don’t mind a citizenship check for ID but the process is tedious and overreaching as all the information is already on file and can be determined beforehand by security agencies. I will never get a RealID drivers license which requires added documents and a long wait time.
> 
> Amtrak could decide to implement RealID but I haven’t explicitly seen this required. The State DMV scares people into getting a RealID even if they have one already.
> 
> ...


Honestly, if the Feds were so **** serious about this I don't see why they didn't whack the cost to get a passport into the floor (perhaps based on some sort of income/means test), eat any "losses" as the cost of doing business, and just dispense with the whole shitshow of getting all 50 states "on board"...

(Then again, I'm a little surprised that there wasn't a lawsuit to that effect, _if only_ for Hawaii due to its unusual circumstances.)


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## PVD (Nov 19, 2019)

Real Id drivers lic. does not require citizenship, it requires legal presence, that is very different. Remember, it is a one time deal, once you have one you shouldn't need anything for renewal. Some states (not sure how many) let you renew on line if you keep the same picture and have an eye test result on file or submitted electronically by the examiner. NY even had a booth at the Auto Show where you could take the eye test and have it in the system if you were renewing online that year.


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## tricia (Nov 19, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I believe all or nearly all states are using compliant licenses at this point. So will you cease driving when your current license expires, or are you going to continue driving without documentation? My compliant license took no extra time and required no additional documentation.



Different rules in different states, apparently. In North Carolina, when I renewed my driver license a few weeks ago, I was given the OPTION of renewing as a REAL ID--which would have required paying more money, then waiting in a long line at a DMV office, with various documents in hand, to pass muster and I think be fingerprinted. Since I've already got a federal Global Entry card (which qualifies as REAL ID), I instead opted to renew by mail, and now have a new non-REAL ID-compliant driver license.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 19, 2019)

tricia said:


> Different rules in different states, apparently. In North Carolina, when I renewed my driver license a few weeks ago, I was given the OPTION of renewing as a REAL ID--which would have required paying more money, then waiting in a long line at a DMV office, with various documents in hand, to pass muster and I think be fingerprinted. Since I've already got a federal Global Entry card (which qualifies as REAL ID), I instead opted to renew by mail, and now have a new non-REAL ID-compliant driver license.


In my state it didn't appear to be an option. After a certain date all renewals were compliant. Regarding the documentation I suppose it depends on how you got your first license. If they already had everything they needed then some entry in a database flipped all the right flags and the new ID was processed. If not, perhaps a new request would be sent to supply document X within duration Y or else forfeit amount Z.


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## jis (Nov 19, 2019)

When I got my Florida Drivers License (DL), it took me standing in line to get to an agent some 15 mins, and then about 10 minutes with the agent, ironically, showing them the exact same documents that I showed to an NJ agent a few years earlier for the NJ DL (which included my Passport for the gold standard of Id, and my Social Security Card - one I got in 1977), to walk out with a RealID DL in exchange for the old non-RealID NJ DL which I got back with one corner chopped off, to add to my collection of random cards. They did verify the Passport info with the Passport office electronically.

Basically to get a RealID DL you have to establish that you are a genuine resident of the state (same as for no-RealID DL), and in addition a bunch of possible things to establish you are you. The latter can be established using the same documentation that is needed say to get a Passport (Birth Cert, Naturalization Cert) or a Passport or Passport Card, and proof of SSN (Social Security Card, Pay Stub etc.).

Oddly enough, to get my RealID, of course my Passport was enough, but to register Homestead in Brevard County a Passport was not acceptable. Only a Naturalization Certificate or Birth Certificate was acceptable! Bureaucracies!

I have no idea if it is even possible to get a non-RealID DL or non RealID State ID in Florida anymore.


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## PVD (Nov 19, 2019)

Some states have chosen to continue issuing non real id dl. NY law was changed to allow both types, in addition to EDL. It is not without controversy in some circles.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 19, 2019)

NJ is making us do it but of course does not have an efficient system set up yet for people to do it. So what else is new?


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## dlagrua (Nov 19, 2019)

When I renewed my drivers license in NJ to the one with the photo I.D. I had to present my birth certificate, and another gov't issued ID . What more do they need for the "real ID". Are they assuming that I now have fake ID?


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## jis (Nov 19, 2019)

dlagrua said:


> When I renewed my drivers license in NJ to the one with the photo I.D. I had to present my birth certificate, and another gov't issued ID . What more do they need for the "real ID". Are they assuming that I now have fake ID?


Very often they already have the necessary information. It is their back end that was not set up to work the way the Feds want it to, and they were dragging their feet on getting things fixed. It is hard to tell if they are able to transfer info from their old system to the new one. The only way to know what they will require is to see what they say they will require, since it is very specific to their setup and transition policies.

Real ID is just a branding that the feds have chosen. Id' s are branded as such when they meet certain threshold requirements for verification of identity before one is issued. Not having a Real ID simply means that the Id instrument that you have has not passed through the specific identity authenticity tests required for Real ID.

Here is a very nice web page about Real ID

https://upgradedpoints.com/real-id-act


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## Qapla (Nov 19, 2019)

When I renewed my DL I had to present my birth certificate and "official" mail with my name and address (utility bill) and was issued the Real ID.

My wife had to jump through many more hoops since her name had changed since her birth certificate was issued (her last name was changed to my last name) - and in her case, since she adopted her middle name as her first name and her Maiden "Initial" as her middle name (which, at the time we were married 39 years ago we were informed that a marriage license grants a "legal" name change), she was required to use her "birth first name" which required her to have to secure a new SS card to match her DL.

My SIL had a similar experience and many who have lost a mate or remarried have been required to show death certificates and/or divorce decrees.

These things are required in Fl if you want to renew your license - you cannot get a "non-Real ID" license instead ... you either get the Real ID or surrender your privilege to drive.


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## adamj023 (Nov 19, 2019)

The whole RealID setup is a joke. NY State wants multiple forms of documentation for RealID which are ridiculous. Can’t comment on other states but the process for it here is horrible. In NY state RealID is not required. As I said, my passport has RealID but that alone isn’t good enough for them along with my existing license. They should be able to already get the info from the federal database. Since NY State has horrible procedures, my drivers license will never have RealID. The federal government makes RealID easier to get such as passport. passport card or even TSA Pre, Global Entry and other methods. There is no need for someone to have multiple RealID compliant documents.


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## jis (Nov 19, 2019)

In Florida also Real ID is not required. But if you wish to drive using a Florida license you are obliged to get it in the Real ID form since I don't think Florida issues non-real Id Drivers Licenses anymore. At least I have not figured out how one could even ask for one. But as I said earlier, if you have the paperwork it is very quick, and you get one the same day, as you chat with the agent who takes your photo and makes up the document. But of course Florida being Florida, this could vary widely from County to County and even from DMV office to DMV office. In the sticks out here in southern Space Coast we have an uncrowded office with lots of staff so thing move quickly. I bet things are different in Miami-Dade or Broward or even Orange Counties.


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## PVD (Nov 19, 2019)

This is what DHS says: Visit your state’s driver’s licensing agency website to find out exactly what documentation is required to obtain a REAL ID. At a minimum, you must provide documentation showing: 1) Full Legal Name; 2) Date of Birth; 3) Social Security Number; 4) Two Proofs of Address of Principal Residence; and 5) Lawful Status.
Your passport and existing DL together do not meet that standard....


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## leemell (Nov 19, 2019)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Good question. Also, if you have a valid passport, will you still need a REAL ID for any of these?


As long as you have our passport with you, no.


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## Barb Stout (Nov 20, 2019)

Skyline said:


> But would the SS office accept a current passport instead?


Don't know, but many people don't have passports.


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## jis (Nov 20, 2019)

zephyr17 said:


> A passport is a Real ID compliant document


Interestingly, when I applied for Medicare Part A upon turning 65, the Melbourne SS office said they needed to update their records about my citizenship status, which I can understand, since the last time I interacted with them was before I became a citizen. They specifically said that they need to see my Naturalization Certificate. Fine, but I decided to take along my Passport anyway, just in case, based on a few past experiences.

So they looked at my Naturalization Certificate, made a copy for their files and then tried to verify it with the ICE system. Well the ICE system was unreachable. So they asked me if by chance I have my Passport handy, which of course I did. They were able to verify the Passport information using the Passport IT system I guess, and proceeded to process my application based on that. 

Moral of the story, take a few documents, not just one, when they ask to verify something.

BTW, if everyone in the country tried to get a Passport the system would probably crash and burn.  It already takes them more than a week to process a standard Passport application.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 20, 2019)

jis said:


> It already takes them more than a week to process a standard Passport application.


My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.


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## jis (Nov 20, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.


Yup. It is unpredictable, highly variable and depends on ones luck, a lot apparently depends on where the application is processed. 

Reminds me of the times back in the '70s when renewing ones I-94 seemed to be a similar crap shoot. The scuttlebutt was that if yours landed up at St. Albans you could kiss it good bye and apply for a substitute and hope that application did not land up in St. Albans. 

The last time I got my Passport renewed last year they said it would take two weeks and it took exactly two weeks to the day. But I have heard multiple horror stories of multi month misadventures too.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 20, 2019)

Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???


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## jis (Nov 20, 2019)

Bob Dylan said:


> Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???


See https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-and-real-ids.76513/page-2#post-824828


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 20, 2019)

Bob Dylan said:


> Texas Licenses now will have a Gold Star on the corner indicating that they are now a "Real ID",as opposed to the old ones that didnt, hence they were "Fake ID"???


So far as I am aware Read ID primarily refers to auditing of the authentication and verification process from which approval was derived. The cards themselves are largely unaffected by Real ID compliance, other than including machine readable data in a specific format. The majority of states were mostly compliant when the rules creating Real ID were written into law, but a few stragglers were still approving licenses more appropriate for the 1950's. Personally I haven't seen anything all that disconcerting as of yet, but anyone who is concerned can purchase inexpensive Mylar slips and wire mesh wallets that can block most forms of surreptitious eavesdropping.


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## adamj023 (Nov 20, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> My first by-mail passport took months, even after paying the "express" surcharge. I asked for a refund since the delay exceeded the schedule guidance by an order of magnitude. That took another six months. When I've discussed passports with travelers from other industrialized democracies they invariably tell me it's a simple same day turnaround at a fraction of the cost.



Sounds like you didn’t follow directions and add appropriate fees and use faster USPS Express mail as I get them back immediately all the time when I renew passport with a very short wait time. Not sure which factor contributed to your slowdown. USPS regular mail can be very slow in itself but if you don’t put expedite on the envelope or mail to wrong address or whatnot it always adds time. Every time I have mailed it which includes full tracking and signature upon receipt, they quickly received it and the facility has always been staffed even if shipment has been during an off time period. And the time to receive is quick and has been faster than posted wait times on the internet which are disclosed. I heard of people even mailing via UPS or FedEx where it goes to another address which adds time to the process.

If you have travel arrangements, you can even go last minute and walk into a facility, Im not sure if it requires appointment or not. Compare that to the DMV where you have to be treated poorly and wait on multiple lines for drivers license renewal or to switch to RealD in NY if you don’t use online renewal.


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## jis (Nov 20, 2019)

It should be pointed out that your DMV experience does not mean everyone has the same DMV experience in every state, county and city either, just like DA's experience with Passport office does not match yours. As I mentioned it took me all of 25 minutes at the DMV office I went to to get my Driver's License which happens to be Real ID since that is the only kind they make here. Much much less hassle than getting a Passport.  Didn't have to fiddle around with UPS, USPS or any such at all. Just drove down to the office 15 mins away.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 20, 2019)

adamj023 said:


> Sounds like you didn’t follow directions and add appropriate fees and use faster USPS Express mail as I get them back immediately all the time when I renew passport with a very short wait time. Not sure which factor contributed to your slowdown. USPS regular mail can be very slow in itself but if you don’t put expedite on the envelope or mail to wrong address or whatnot it always adds time.


What do you mean by "all the time?" Do you travel so much that even forty visa pages isn't nearly enough? In my case I purchased each and every express benefit that was available at the time of submission. If I had failed to follow directions I doubt I would have received any sort of refund. Passports in Texas have a different path compared to applications handled in New York so it's not that surprising our experiences would be different.



adamj023 said:


> If you have travel arrangements, you can even go last minute and walk into a facility, Im not sure if it requires appointment or not. Compare that to the DMV where you have to be treated poorly and wait on multiple lines for drivers license renewal or to switch to RealD in NY if you don’t use online renewal.


Where I live the nearest passport agency is hours away and setup like a fortress with signs that say you cannot simply walk-in. You must first schedule online and then show up at the date and time the computer gives you. You can decline the offer and make another request but it's incredibly clumsy and difficult to schedule around other business. Whereas the DMV is only minutes away, takes walk-ins without prior arrangements, and provides same-day documentation as part of the standard fee.


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## jebr (Nov 20, 2019)

jis said:


> It should be pointed out that your DMV experience does not mean everyone has the same DMV experience in every state, county and city either, just like DA's experience with Passport office does not match yours. As I mentioned it took me all of 25 minutes at the DMV office I went to to get my Driver's License which happens to be Real ID since that is the only kind they make here. Much much less hassle than getting a Passport.  Didn't have to fiddle around with UPS, USPS or any such at all. Just drove down to the office 15 mins away.



Yeah, the DMV here in Minnesota generally isn't bad either. There's been some major teething problems with launches of new computer systems, but most times I'm in and out within 15-20 minutes, and often less. There was one time I went in to renew my tabs and it took longer to stop at the ATM on the way there than it did to get my tabs. Generally the staff there is as friendly as most other standard retail establishments - a few great ones, a few grumpy ones, but generally pleasant to work with. Admittedly I haven't had any bad experiences with the passport office either, but it definitely takes longer to work with them than it does to go to the DMV here.


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## adamj023 (Nov 20, 2019)

Devil's Advocate said:


> What do you mean by "all the time?" Do you travel so much that even forty visa pages isn't nearly enough? In my case I purchased each and every express benefit that was available at the time of submission. If I had failed to follow directions I doubt I would have received any sort of refund. Passports in Texas have a different path compared to applications handled in New York so it's not that surprising our experiences would be different.
> 
> 
> Where I live the nearest passport agency is hours away and setup like a fortress with signs that say you cannot simply walk-in. You must first schedule online and then show up at the date and time the computer gives you. You can decline the offer and make another request but it's incredibly clumsy and difficult to schedule around other business. Whereas the DMV is only minutes away, takes walk-ins without prior arrangements, and provides same-day documentation as part of the standard fee.



I am in NYC where the DMV experience is poor. As far as all the time with passport. I meant every time I have renewed it over the years. The initial process was tedious where you had to get a specific appointment at the post office although back then I hear appointments were easier to get than now. I do have to wait on line to mail out my passport USPS Express but one can go to any USPS office at an off hour or self pay and mail. All Expedited passports go to Philadelphia. PA for renewal so we all use the same facility for Expedited passports. The address for routine service is in Texas including me as NY goes to Texas as does a few other states. If you mailed an Expedited to Texas, you aren’t getting Expedited service and that is failure to follow directions if that is what happened. Other Standard Passports go to Philadelphia. PA as well. Apparently renewal for passport time is longer now which also has to do with RealID compliance but mine is good for awhile and renewal time should be shorter when I renew. Last renewal time, it was super quick and much shorter than posted wait time.


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## jiml (Nov 20, 2019)

Ironically our version of Real ID was recently discontinued here. It's been around for a few years, but failed to gain any real interest versus passports. It allowed driving and water admission to the US, just as the American equivalent from Washington State, Minnesota, South Dakota, Michigan, New York, or Vermont allows holders into Canada. Unfortunately it didn't help with flying and the cost brought a drivers' license close to the cost of a passport. Getting a passport here rates about a C on the PITA report card, renewing one by mail about a B and I equate a trip to our DMV on the same level as going to the dentist.


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## Qapla (Nov 20, 2019)

There was no price change here for the cost of a DL when they went to the Real ID ... the time/experience at DMV is dependant on the office you go to.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 20, 2019)

DMV Offices seem to vary greatly, even in the same States.

Here in Austin ( The Texas DMV is part of the Department of Public Safety which includes the State Highway Patrol) there are several offices , but appointments are not available and when you arrive you take a Computer Generated Number and take a Seat till your number is called.

They are using the same antiquated system with 50 year old technology, that I expierenced when I got my Drivers License as a 14 year old in 1958!!

Since it's a State Agency, the Operating Hours are rigidly enforced, ie Monday- Friday/8AM-430PM, Closed on 14 State and Federal Holidays..

No matter what day or time you visit, parking is hard to find,and the average wait is 1-2 Hours since Austin is growing by 5-6,000 People a month. 

State Law gives you 6 months to obtain a State Drivers License or ID ( required to Vote which requires another Card obtained @ a different office with a similar MO)with Proof of Texas Drivers Insurance.

In my many years of Government Service, and dealing with Agencies, the DMV here takes First Place for the Worst expierence I've ever had dealing with such places including the IRS and the VA!!

On the other hand, once I had my initial Passport ( issued in Washington DC in 2 Hours), I've been able to renew it via Mail by sending my old Passport and the Renewal Form along with two Photos and the Required Fee to Houston and getting it within 1-2 weeks..


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## daybeers (Nov 20, 2019)

Austin is growing by 5-6k people per month? [emoji50]


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 20, 2019)

Yep, it's like they've discovered Gold or Oil, suddenly everyone wants to come to Austin!!!

The Greater Austin SMSA lists the Population @ 1 1/2 Million, with the Projection that it will Double by 2030 to 3 Million!


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## adamj023 (Nov 21, 2019)

Texas and Florida are growing in population. New York has been declining in total population statewide as per the census.


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## gswager (Nov 21, 2019)

When I used to live in New Mexico, everyone are talking about MVD with snail speed. You'll have to bring 2 billings/paycheck to show proof of residence, notarized birth certificate, social security card, and a filled out application. A lot of them weren't prepared for that. Plus MVD (same version of DMV) have to copy all paperwork! Waiting line is too long, even people showed up at the door 45 minutes before open.

In Idaho, it's a breeze! Well, that is in small town with line less than 15 minutes. I'll need to bring my passport to upgrade my license next year.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 21, 2019)

adamj023 said:


> Texas and Florida are growing in population. New York has been declining in total population statewide as per the census.


Texas is growing but we've painted ourselves into an ideological corner. Many Texans don't want more Californians to come here, but we also refuse to change anything that might dissuade the influx. In fact we continue to promote and enshrine the benefits that bring them here in the first place. Which means more and more are on the way each and every day. I'm liberal for a Texan but conservative for a Californian and I think a bit of cross pollination might be beneficial to balance out some of the nuttier stuff.


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## AmtrakWPK (Nov 21, 2019)

Skyline said:


> But would the SS office accept a current passport instead?


If you want real circular farce, when I went to get my "Real-ID" FL DL, I needed my SS Card, and couldn't find it, which meant I had to get a replacement. So what did the Social Security office require for ID? My NON-REAL-ID FL DL that supposedly isn't any good as ID. So the FL DL that FL doesn't accept as ID without the SS Card was sufficient ID for Social Security to issue me a duplicate SS Card with which to get a REAL-ID FL DL. Maybe that will change in 2020. I also have a Passport, but the Social Security office didn't require it. Go Figure. And may the Farce be with you.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 21, 2019)

AmtrakWPK said:


> If you want real circular farce, when I went to get my "Real-ID" FL DL, I needed my SS Card, and couldn't find it, which meant I had to get a replacement. So what did the Social Security office require for ID? My NON-REAL-ID FL DL that supposedly isn't any good as ID. So the FL DL that FL doesn't accept as ID without the SS Card was sufficient ID for Social Security to issue me a duplicate SS Card with which to get a REAL-ID FL DL. Maybe that will change in 2020. I also have a Passport, but the Social Security office didn't require it. Go Figure. And may the Farce be with you.


Down the Rabbit Hole with Alice!


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