# what is it like to ride an Amtrak train for 20+ hours ?



## ben b (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?

Thank you for any input.


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## yarrow (Sep 25, 2009)

unlike the bus, you have a roomy seat with a drop down table. you can walk most of the train and many routes have a lounge car to sit in (research it on the amtrak website) and read, visit or watch the scenery. sleeping in a coach seat for the night has never been too much of a problem for me. bring food (or visit the diner or lounge car), reading material, maybe a camera. bring comb, toothbrush, etc. make friends and pass some time in coversation. train travel can be an adventure so approach from that perspective


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 25, 2009)

also you can get off at some long stops and stretch your legs and stuff. just stay near the train so you can hear the all aboard call or you will be left behind.


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## RailFanLNK (Sep 25, 2009)

I find rail travel alot better than any other forms of transportation. My body is beat up from 27 years of physical labor, my girlfriend has arthritis and just last night we made a 3 hour drive from LNK to Des Moines IA. Both of us when exiting the car walked as though we played pro football for 10 years. That is just one of the many reasons we enjoy the train. You can get up and walk around. Sleeping in coach (depending on your age) may be a bit of a challenge. I have done it at the age of 46 years but I prefer a sleeper when traveling overnight. The seats have plenty of legroom, I like the "traveling community" mindset that a train ride creates and I like to visit with different people along the way. I will tell you this, an Amtrak train ride for the duration that you are possibly taking is a social lesson all of itself. Its the biggest conglomoration of Americans and foriegners you can muster all together other than a visit to the United Nations. Its rich, poor, yuppie, white collar and working class, retired, children etc...you name. That is what I love about taking the train.  Enjoy your trip!


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2009)

ben b said:


> I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> Thank you for any input.


A ride on a LD train is so much more comfortable than the dog its ridiculous! A ride on greyhound long distance is like riding a yellow school bus!

A long distance ride on a train is like going on a luxury cruise (well, almost, the food is not quiet as good and theres no pool or casino, but the scenery is better and the people are friendlier and more real! Youll love it, if you can read all the info on this forum, especially the trip reports and youll see!


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## AAARGH! (Sep 25, 2009)

It is MUCH MORE comfortable than a bus.

If you can afford it, get a sleeper (roomette or bedroom). That makes it much more enjoyable still. You have your own private space and meals are included.

To me there is no comparison with a bus. On the train, you can get up and move around, and have at least two options on where to sit (your seat or the sighteseer lounge). Add the diner as an occasional third place.

EDIT: Hey that was my 500th post!


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## wayman (Sep 25, 2009)

ben b said:


> I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> Thank you for any input.


It's a totally different experience than a bus, somehow more engaging and more relaxing at the same time.

For one, it's a lot more comfortable. Your seat is larger and you've got a lot more legroom, and you're in a much larger space. Moreover, you're not confined to your seat: you have the entire train to explore and enjoy. (Well, except the sleeping cars, if you're not in one.) That means you can wander around not just your car, but walk the length of the train from car to car if you decide you just need a walk... and of course there are a few other destinations you can stop at and enjoy too. Depending on your train, you'll have at least one lounge or cafe or dining car of some sort, and quite probably two. Different routes have different sorts of cars; read up on the train you're considering, and you might find it has a Sightseer Lounge, a cafe car, a dining car, a Cross Country Cafe, a diner-lite, or some combination of these.

You can also enjoy the food, of course. The cafe car will have drinks (soft and alcoholic), snacks, sandwiches, and small microwaved meals--nothing to write home about, but it's a quick meal or a soda if you ever want one. The dining car, should your train have one, is a restaurant on wheels serving three meals a day, and one of the great experiences of traveling long-distance by train. Sit at a table with linens and real silverware, order off the menu, and your food will be prepared in the kitchen and served to your table. Relax and enjoy.

Then, there are your fellow passengers. You'll likely find they're more outgoing and social than fellow bus passengers, very willing to strike up conversations. The lounge and dining cars provide a great opportunity to get to meet people from all walks of life, from all across the country (and beyond), and most have some sort of interesting story to share. (And in the dining car, you'll probably be seated at a table with strangers--that's how seating works on the train, with its limited space--but by the end of the meal you'll probably find you've made a few friends.) The train somehow creates a small community of travelers, for those who wish to join it, which I've never found to be true on a bus or plane.

And, it's a lot more relaxing and fascinating to just look out the window than a bus. Buses travel the highways, which rarely seem to involve much scenery. Wide expanses of concrete, lined with trees or sound barrier walls or strip malls occasionally punctuated by billboards and service plazas are a lot of what you get to see. Not so, the train. Sometimes you're paralleling a road, but often you're seeing parts of the country you can't see by car or bus: vast stretches of natural spendor on some routes, like the New River Gorge on the Cardinal, or remote stretches of the Rocky Mountains on the California Zephyr; or else small towns viewed from "the other side", people's back yards and interesting neighborhoods, sometimes seen from unusual angles. And unlike the bus, every few hours the train in scheduled for a longer station stop where all passengers are freely allowed to get off the train, stretch, and wander about for a few minutes. Don't leave the platform!!! But often you can get a little sense of an odd small town just from stepping off, and sometimes there's even an historical exhibit on display outside the station you'll have a minute to look at.

Unexpected things can happen, of course. Occasionally (but not often), trains break down; but then, so do buses. But another sort of delay is unique to the train: most of the track you'll travel on is privately owned by a freight railroad, and sometimes the freight railroad gives its trains priority over Amtrak. This might mean you spend some time sitting on a side track waiting for other trains to pass you. Over the past few years, this situation has gotten a lot better due to a variety of political, economic, and logistical factors--the delays aren't as bad, and often they're a little bit anticipated and built into the schedule as padding, but they do still happen. You might spend some time sitting on a side track and yet still be on-time to your destination, but there's always a bit of a chance you'll spend a lot of time sitting and get quite delayed. Each train faces different conditions, so check amtrakdelays.com to see what the performance of your train, to your destination, has been like recently. Often, a good book, a good meal, or a good conversation can turn most delays into a comfortable time. And of course, quite often there's no problem at all.

If you're on the train for 20+ hours, you'll almost certainly be sleeping for some of that time. In coach, the seats recline quite a bit and there's ample legroom. You can get a decent sleep there. Bring an extra layer of warmth, or a small travel blanket, or whatever might make you more comfortable. Amtrak will provide a small pillow, but you might want a larger one. If you're in a sleeping car, you'll have a bed made up for you at night by your car attendant. It costs extra--sometimes a lot extra--but note two things: 1, the cost of the roomette or bedroom is for the space, so if you're traveling with someone else, you only pay that cost once; and 2, the cost of the roomette or bedroom includes all meals in the dining car (not the cafe car) for each passenger in the space. But, don't feel you have to go by sleeping car if you're traveling overnight, especially for only one night. Lots of folks sleep in coach well enough.

So, it's a great experience, and better than the bus and plane in most ways in my opinion (and most folks here will agree, but then this is the Amtrak Unlimited forum). Give it a try, and feel free to ask for advice here (you'll get lots).


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## the_traveler (Sep 25, 2009)

Two of the great things about taking a train over flying is the ability to walk around (if you want) and meeting other people (if you want)! 

Sure, if you're on a plane and seated in 21-A, you may talk to the person in 21-B, but I very much doubt that you will go and sit or talk to the people in 12-E, 15-C or 25-D. You probably won't even talk to the person in 20-A except to tell him/her to put their seat up because you can't use your tray table!  And unless you walk to the rest room, how often or far can you walk on a plane? :huh:

On a plane, you could be seated with that person from 12-E at breakfast, the person from 15-C at lunch, 25-D at dinner and meet 20A in the Lounge car! And you can step off for a few minutes at certain stops (just stay near the train!) and get some fresh air! (Try that at 32,000 feet!  )

I'll take a 40 or 50 hour train trip any day over a 4-5 hour plane ride! (Notice how one is a "trip" and one is a "ride"? With a train, your vacation begins before you even step aboard. There is no "arrive 2 hours early", in many places there are no long lines, there is no TSA "security" to go through, etc... - I find it much more relaxing even at the train station!  )


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## sunchaser (Sep 25, 2009)

Taking the train is a much better choice.

We were on the train for 17 to 18 hours for each train with a layover in between, & I thought it would be too much to handle, but it was fine.

There are usually fresh air/smoke stops/crew change/refresh stops throughout your train trip. Some are just a few minutes, some can be up to an hour, depending on the schedule & what they need to do.

You can get off the train & walk a bit, but don't leave the platform, unless you check with your train staff first.

If you choose to take a long trip, I would highly recommend getting a roomette or bedroom for all the reasons mentioned earlier, but also you can rest/nap during the day if needed undisturbed. In coach, that would be more difficult.

There really is alot to do on the train vs bus or plane! Or you can just chill in the Sightseer Lounge if the train has one!

Welcome to the board, & have a great trip!


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## GregL (Sep 25, 2009)

My wife and I have been on several trips, enjoyed each and every one. Before we went on the first, we were a little skeptical, thought we would have trouble sleeping, we always slept great. If you can spring for a sleeper, I would spend the extra money. There are extras that come with a sleeper, meals, juice, coffee, morning paper, and shower facitities that coach passengers don't get.

I was the one that wanted to take the train at first, and now my wife prefers the train over flying or driving.

Enjoy!!

GregL


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## creddick (Sep 25, 2009)

If you like trains, it's great. if you don't like trains, it's torture.


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## the_traveler (Sep 25, 2009)

creddick said:


> If you like trains, it's great. if you don't like trains, it's torture.


It will be torture *IF* you *THINK* it will be torture! 

I don't mind flying, but I *THINK* spending 15 hours in a plane would be torture! I like to drive, but I *THINK* a 30 hour drive would be torture! I like to walk, but I *THINK* a 20 mile hike would be torture! (Even having to walk the 5 miles to the train station I *THINK* would be torture!)


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2009)

creddick said:


> If you like trains, it's great. if you don't like trains, it's torture.


Torture is waterboarding/electric shock/drugs etc. Discomfort is the correct word and if you dislike trains, or anything else, just dont do it! (the anti-Nike commercial!) My idea of discomfort may be different than yours but the most uncomfortable transportation Ive ever undertaken is riding airplanes after undergoing the uncomfortable obstacle course that is airports! <_<


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## Tony (Sep 25, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> It will be torture *IF* you *THINK* it will be torture!


I think that is got to be one of the best summaries I have read.

IMHO, the reason to take a train, is to have a relaxed journey. I like to sit back, enjoy the food and enjoy the scenery. True, for long journeys, I get a roomette and with that, my journey starts in an Acela Lounge. No lines. Having a danish and cup of coffee. How more relaxed could that be than a long security line at an airport ?

You need to just "roll with the punches". If the train is running late or delayed, big deal.


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## GG-1 (Sep 25, 2009)

Guest said:


> ben b said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> ...


Aloha

There is both a pool and casino on "the Super Train" Also well known "The_Traveler" knows the secret door to the penthouse, with Pool. (Rolling on the floor, :lol: )


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## creddick (Sep 26, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> creddick said:
> 
> 
> > If you like trains, it's great. if you don't like trains, it's torture.
> ...


Agreed. Being a train lover, I consider it torture if the train ride is too short. Or not being on a train at all. Have not flown since 87 and don't plan to either.


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## Sam31452 (Sep 26, 2009)

> I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours.


It's great! It's amazing! It's entertaining! It's wonderful! It's fun!   

My personal record is STL-LAX, 62 hrs 40 mins (plus a three hour delay), I wasn't bored for a single minute.

BTW: On a bus I have a 3 hour limit (which is the absolute maximum of pain I can stand).


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## rrdude (Sep 26, 2009)

creddick said:


> If you like trains, it's great. if you don't like trains, it's torture.


Although I admit I'm a fan (big-time) of rail travel, it is NOT for everyone. And, virtually everything that each poster said here is TRUE.

I think in order to appreciate train travel for the first time, you need to set you expectation level at a realistic level. Is it like a cruise ship? ABSOLUTELY NOT! (I'm talking about Amtrak LD trains) The staff on most cruise ships (well, many) have been trained in the "Disney Fashion" (EXAMPLE: Get within a few feet of them, and they great you with a smile, ask if they can help you etc., etc.)

Generally, (and all of us posters are generalizing) if you have kids, the kids will love it, hands down. Room to roam, things to do (watch scenery) people to meet (like "The_Traveler" said), etc, etc.

I think in order to have a fun time, you ABSOLUTELY need to "Accept up Front" a few conditions.

1) Consider your trip ON the train as PART of a journey, NOT as a means of just getting from point A to point B.

2) Don't worry about the time. Trains (in the USA) are often late, sometimes hours, and hours late. But if you start to worry about it, see line 1 above............

3) Be open to meeting other people, and sharing experiences. If not, be prepared to bring a good book, DVD player or something else to help pass then time when you tire (if ever) of looking out at the passing panorama.

Even though I absolutely love trains, and agree that "there isn't a train leaving a station that I wouldn't want to be on", I have had a trip or two from Hell.

However, those were many years ago, with equipment (no AC in the summer) or staff (long since retired) that you generally don't find anymore.

As with a trip to your favorite restaurant, your experience can be GREAT, OK, MEDIOCRE, or CRAP. Some of it will depend upon your outlook. I'm sure you have been to a great restaurant, and had poor experience. Usually it's not that the food was poor, it generally is because the SERVICE missed the mark.

Conversely, you can go to a pretty average restaurant, have a pretty average meal, but be peppered with OUTSTANDING service, and you'll walk away telling everyone how GREAT the place is.

'nuff rambling. Get on the train, set realistic expectations, and I bet you will have a blast!

Good luck.


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## DesertRat (Sep 26, 2009)

On my round trip BAR - TAC, we had a sleeper on the Starlight and that's the best way to go for a 30+ hour trip. Of course if you don't have the money coach is OK, with those big seats. Much less noise than a plane and no pain in the ears, guaranteed. More freedom to move around. And absolutely, like others have said, consider the train part of the adventure!


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## the_traveler (Sep 26, 2009)

creddick said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > creddick said:
> ...


Due to time constraints, I flew for the 1st time in 4 years in July! I consider those 7 hours as being torture! (On the way back, I took a relaxing 8 day train trip!)


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## railiner (Sep 26, 2009)

wayman said:


> ben b said:
> 
> 
> > I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> ...


Great reply! Amtrak should print copies of this and distribute to first time riders!

I love to travel by any means of transport...land, sea, or air. I have travelled by bus all the way from New York to Fairbanks. No problem. I have travelled the entire Amtrak system on a USA Rail Pass. No Problem. I have gone around the world by air...New York-Tokyo-Hong Kong- London-New York in four days! No problem.

One tip I would like to share about sleeping on train....most people will have their dinner, return to seat, and immediately recline and try to go to sleep. this will usually result in a series of short naps all night. Instead, try to stay awake as long as possible, on first night. Go to lounge, read, or whatever until you simply can't keep your eyes open any longer. I think you will have a much better sleep as a result.


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## rrdude (Sep 26, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> creddick said:
> 
> 
> > the_traveler said:
> ...


Hahaha Traveler, ".......the way back I took a relaxing EIGHT day trip.........." Gotta luv ya man! That is Sooooooooooooo funny. (worst part is, I'd feel the same way)

Good news is, looks like my biz is gonna start springing for more trips to visit my dealers, and hey "the" Amtrak is the way to go.............

(Dun't think I can convince them of EIGHT days thou............... YOU THE MAN!)


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## gswager (Sep 26, 2009)

Most passengers are too exciting on the first night and couldn't sleep well- either by motions of train or too much energy. By the second night, you'll sleep good. So try coach on the first night and then sleeper on 2nd night and later, if your money is a little tight.


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## wkaemena (Sep 27, 2009)

ben b said:


> I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> Thank you for any input.


As already explained consider it a cruise and after the cruise you have arrived at your destination. Thinking of a 12h cramped overnight coach flight, is a horror even to think about ! But riding 50h+ cross country on an Amtrak Superliner in a sleeper is pure enjoyment, don't want to miss any minute of it.

See the different "decks" of the Amtrak Superliner(cruiser) here in interactive 360 degrees panoramas.


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## zepherdude (Sep 27, 2009)

I was on a plane for 10 hours this year. No one spoke to me except the flight attendent serving my meal which seemed like a strain for her. I had one glass of wine and that was that, very impersonal. A trip on the Capital Limited from Washington to Chicago recently brought 8 strangers together in the club car and dinner for drinks, dinner, hours of Gin Rummey and fun conversation about nothing. It was the most relaxed trip I have ever had. The train goes whereever I need to go and if you have the time, take the train. Dont gripe about the food or employees on cell phones or if the room was sanitized 40 times. Just relax and have a good time.


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## RailFanLNK (Sep 27, 2009)

Zephyrdude....good gosh...you couldn't have said it better. Endless conversations about nothing. That is what train travel is all about. I recently pitched ditching a trip to Seattle to my girlfriend who has a small amount of vacation time. I told her, "we can fly to Seattle and fly back and save you two weeks vacation". Her reply, "Al... I love taking the train!" So that wasn't an option. Then I said, "you know...we can skip going to see the Cornhuskers play the Washington Huskies next year in Seattle and pick a location closer for our big trip" and her reply: "Al, I love football and trains!" Ok guys, is this one a keeper?!? :lol:


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## RRrich (Sep 28, 2009)

When I was younger, Cunard used the slogan_ Getting there is half the fun_

In a few weeks we will go from home in STL - CHI then CHI -PDX on the EB, then PDX - LAX on the CS stay in LAX for a few nights (just to get our land legs back) then LAX -STL on the TE.

Why are we going? Just to take a train ride - we will see a buddy of mine in LAX but thats secondary (as are pastrami sandwichs at Langers & pizza at Giordano's) we are just going for a train ride


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## Greg (Sep 30, 2009)

I have taken round-the-country train trips (with sleeper) several times in the past few years. Usually start in JAX then to DC, then to CHI then Seattle then to LA then back...sometimes in different directions. I have also traveled to Europe 9 times on vacation. As much as I love my European vacations, they are no where NEAR as relaxing or spiritually renewing as the round-the-country train trips.


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## goodnightjohnwayne (Sep 30, 2009)

ben b said:


> I'm wondering what it might be like to ride an Amtrak train for 20, 30, 40 + hours. I've never been on a train for much longer than 3 hours. I'm considering taking a long trip in the near future but I wonder what it's like to do so from a comfort perspective: i.e. is it common to feel antsy and ready to jump off after about 10 hours. 20 hours? Or is it so much more comfortable than a bus (I have about a 4 hour limit here) that it's fine?
> Thank you for any input.


It all depends on whether you are traveling by coach or sleeper. If you're feeling anxiety about spending a day or two on a train, I'd advise you to pay the extra for the sleeper to ensure that you have a positive first experience.


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## wkaemena (Sep 30, 2009)

Greg said:


> I have taken round-the-country train trips (with sleeper) several times in the past few years. Usually start in JAX then to DC, then to CHI then Seattle then to LA then back...sometimes in different directions. I have also traveled to Europe 9 times on vacation. As much as I love my European vacations, they are no where NEAR as relaxing or spiritually renewing as the round-the-country train trips.


A 3h trip in Europe is not comparable to a Superliner "Cruise" of 30-50h. And with a sleeper ( Roomette or Bedroom) you have your rolling home. I am not a fan of traveling coach seat overnight. My next trip is coming monday from CHI to ABQ only a short 24h trip... way too short !


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## S Unger (Sep 30, 2009)

In 2008 my wife and I took the California Zephyr from Elko, Nevada and continued home to Pittsburgh via the Capitol Limited. W boarded the CZ at 9 PM and after a quick walk through we returned to our roomette. Both of us have not been on a train since at least 50 years ago and did not really know what to expect. We quickly fell asleep and woke up shortly after the train left Salt Lake City. I know I got the 8 hours sleep and so did my wife, the ride was smooth that night. The next leg of the trip to Denver was along the Colorado River Valley though the train did not move very fast the scenery was special along that portion of the ride. We met so many different people each time we ate, all were interesting in their own way. It is so nice to walk around and I liked the observation car for watching the scenery and the people. As I learned people who travel on trains are patient, probably because we understand we are traveling hundreds of miles on our trip and you see and feel it.

Airplanes get you there too but the ride is crowded, even first class seating can feel tight considering how people must pass each other to get to restrooms. And really, there is no place to go besides to the bathroom and back to the seat. Having flown across the Pacific to Hong Cong, and Singapore and back more than once, mostly in business class, once in First Class the 14 hour trip over there beats you up no matter where you sit. I sleep anywhere but even airplane first class seating fails to match my bunk in the roomette. I can lay down just like at home in the roomette an it gives me privacy curtains and doors, there is no such thing on an airplane where you sleep like you are in a hospital ward. Yes you do get to and from places much more quickly on the plane and there are reasons you need to use them, mostly because travel time counts especially in the business world. Saving time is the advantage to air travel over auto and trains, everybody knows that but the people who travel by train might be better time managers over the "long haul" by cutting out the hectic part of their lives.

(Perhaps when the country understands high speed rail saves money for freight too (which might save consumers money) we will get a passenger system that can travel around 150 mph +.

I find it hard to believe the road system could ever accommodate 100 mph drivers so some day before I die I hope the rail system can be upgraded to speeds that make trains a viable alternative to long road trips and medium plane flights.)


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## railiner (Sep 30, 2009)

RRrich said:


> When I was younger, Cunard used the slogan_ Getting there is half the fun_
> In a few weeks we will go from home in STL - CHI then CHI -PDX on the EB, then PDX - LAX on the CS stay in LAX for a few nights (just to get our land legs back) then LAX -STL on the TE.
> 
> Why are we going? Just to take a train ride - we will see a buddy of mine in LAX but thats secondary (as are pastrami sandwichs at Langers & pizza at Giordano's) we are just going for a train ride


I agree with Cunard and I add......"coming back is the other half"


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## the_traveler (Oct 1, 2009)

And anticipating the next trip is the third half!


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## Greg (Oct 1, 2009)

wkaemena said:


> Greg said:
> 
> 
> > I have taken round-the-country train trips (with sleeper) several times in the past few years. Usually start in JAX then to DC, then to CHI then Seattle then to LA then back...sometimes in different directions. I have also traveled to Europe 9 times on vacation. As much as I love my European vacations, they are no where NEAR as relaxing or spiritually renewing as the round-the-country train trips.
> ...


I agree, I wasn't comparing European train travel with Amtrak travel. I was comparing "vacations" as a whole.


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