# Glacier park trip--need advice



## Amtrak George (Jan 10, 2013)

The wifey and I want to go on a trip starting and returning to Memphis, TN. The first leg will be Memphis to Essex, MT, stay there several days. Thence we wish to continue to Portland, Or, catch the Starlight to LA and thence Sunset to NOLA and back on the CONO to Mphs.

I can't find any rules for guest rewards, just a listing of the zones and how many points are used per accomodation per number of zones. But when I called guest rewards I was told you can't "build your own trip" but you go to Amtrak.com to see what it will book for a trip.

Questions: Are the rules for guest rewards written anywhere?

Can you use the 'multi city" option on Amtrak's site or must it be the simple trip?

If the Sunset if not leaving the day we get to LA on the Coast Starlight, can we lay over until the next day it runs and stil call it one 'trip?'

I'm not new at all to rail travel but I am new to guest rewards. I'm trying to figure out the best use of my points, have a little over 53,000 available. Thanks!


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## the_traveler (Jan 10, 2013)

The basic rule is that if you go to the main screen on Amtrak.com (*NOT* the multi-city screen) and input "From point A" and "To point B", and a routing comes up, it can be booked as an AGR award. You can not say go from ESX to SAC via SEA, because of (besides the overnight stay required) the routing will send you to connect at PDX with a same day connection.

I don't believe that if you arrive in LAX on a day the SL does not operate, I don't think that they will allow that because there are other ways to get you to MEM not requiring an overnight stay.


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## tomfuller (Jan 10, 2013)

Never traveled on points but from what I understand the Sunset Limited leaves LAX at 10PM Sunday Wednesday and Friday. They may hold it for a while if the Coast Starlight will be coming in shortly after 10. The CS is scheduled for 9PM to LAX. This would be two "trips" if you spend overnight in Los Angeles. Ask if it is a guaranteed connection

If you truly want to see Glacier NP, you should go to Whitefish where you can rent a car to go over the Going to the Sun Road. The Isaac Walton Lodge is OK but you want to see the interior of the park.

Last May 31 my wife and I got off at Cut Bank MT where we had a rental car waiting for us.

We spent the night in Cut Bank and then went the next day to see the east side of the park.

We dropped the rental car off at the Amtrak lot in Cut Bank about 5:30PM and waited for the EB.

After driving 17 miles up from St. Mary, we doubled back and went past Two Medicine and then out US 2 as far as Essex before driving back by way of Browning to Cut Bank.

If you wanted to have more certainty of your connection, I would take the CS only as far as Sacramento (6:15AM) and then take the CZ back to Chicago.

If you live in Memphis, you can ride the CONO anytime to get to New Orleans.

The scenery in Colorado is much better than west Texas.


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## crescent2 (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm new to AGR too. But from what I've been told here:

Nowhere I can find.

No, the trip must come up on the amtrak.com site using the Point A to Point B option, not Multi-city.

No, because you're staying overnight.

But apparently some people have somehow been able to do overnights on the same reward, so good luck!


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## Amtrak George (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks guys, I'm starting to understand this, but any more input is welcome. I probably should explain my reason for wanting to ride the Coast Starlight all the way to L.A.: the train is a favorite of my wife; we rode it from Sacramento to Seatle years ago. However, she hasn't ridden it along the Coast on the south end and I think she would really enjoy the scenery. Also, I am getting new rail mileage (Spokane to Portland, the "baby Builder"; as well as the line that bypasses Phoenix) on this routing. If I have to ride the Chief back to Chgo that would not be the end of the world in view of the inevitable reroute that is coming, but we have ridden that line in the past.


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## Amtrak George (Jan 10, 2013)

I thought of one other issue, and that is whether the Coast Starlight and Sunset usually make connections at Los Angeles, southbound to eastbound. I think it is a guaranteed connection but I would feel bad about being bussed from somewhere up the line to connect to the Sunset, thereby missing the scenic California Coast that I wanted to share with the wifie :unsure:


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## Ispolkom (Jan 10, 2013)

Amtrak George said:


> Questions: Are the rules for guest rewards written anywhere?


Yes, we are told, but no one who posts to this forum has seen them. Plus:

1) They are subject to change without notice, or even any admission that the rules are changed, and

2) They are not always accurately interpreted by AGR agents.

This means that any "rules" that you see mentioned on this forum are nothing more than rules of thumb, experience that members have acquired over the years. They aren't rules in the way that any legal mind would see them (and I write that as someone who deals with actually legally binding rules every day). An example is the "rule" that you can't have an overnight stayover. Yarrow has done this five times in the last four years, so it's clearly possible in some situations.

So, what you have to expect is that some routes are easier to book, and some are harder. For instance, if a route appears when you enter the city pair at amtrak.com, it's going to be easy to book. Memphis-Chicago-Essex falls into that category.

Alas, Essex-Portland-Los Angeles-New Orleans-Memphis doesn't appear. That doesn't mean it's impossible. It just means that it's harder to book. For instance. Spokane-Portland-Los Angeles-El Paso appears at amtrak.com. El Paso-Chicago-Memphis also appears. I'd think that you could book that routing, though possibly as two one-zone AGR redemptions. Going though New Orleans might be harder, but if you get the right agent, you could maybe book it.

Really, it's luck of the draw to book a circuitous routing like you want. Remember that something like 90% of AGR awards are one-zone coach awards, mostly in the northeast corridor. The chances that you'll get an agent who

a) understands AGR rules (whatever they are), and

b) knows U.S. geography,

isn't great.

This means that you'll have to be especially convincing, and even have to call back a day later hoping to get a different agent.

If you are the sort of person who works well within defined systems (IT professionals seem especially like this), you'll probably hate AGR because the rules are so obscure, and so inconsistently applied. If you like trying to charm things out of people, AGR is your ticket.

Oh, and by the way, the last time I went down the Columbia River Gorge on #27 to Portland, it was magical. Layers of clouds obscured and then revealed the mountains, and the mighty Columbia rolled on underneath it. You really want to take this route.


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## yarrow (Jan 11, 2013)

Amtrak George said:


> The wifey and I want to go on a trip starting and returning to Memphis, TN. The first leg will be Memphis to Essex, MT, stay there several days. Thence we wish to continue to Portland, Or, catch the Starlight to LA and thence Sunset to NOLA and back on the CONO to Mphs.
> 
> I can't find any rules for guest rewards, just a listing of the zones and how many points are used per accomodation per number of zones. But when I called guest rewards I was told you can't "build your own trip" but you go to Amtrak.com to see what it will book for a trip.
> 
> ...


as far as i can see: memphis to essex would be a 2 zone redemption. 20k points for a roomette for the wife and you. essex to la or denver or albuquerque would be a one redemption (15k points). but you could only overnight in la between the cs and swc. if you stayed a few days in la you wouldn't have enough points as it would be 2 zones back to memphis. then denver or abq (border cities on the amtrak zone map)to memphis should be a one zone redemption(15k points). total 50k points. i have never had any trouble laying over less than 24 hours in la on an agr redemption. if you need more points you can always buy some(up to 10k a year) through buypoints on the agr site. good luck


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## yarrow (Jan 11, 2013)

Amtrak George said:


> The wifey and I want to go on a trip starting and returning to Memphis, TN. The first leg will be Memphis to Essex, MT, stay there several days. Thence we wish to continue to Portland, Or, catch the Starlight to LA and thence Sunset to NOLA and back on the CONO to Mphs.
> 
> I can't find any rules for guest rewards, just a listing of the zones and how many points are used per accomodation per number of zones. But when I called guest rewards I was told you can't "build your own trip" but you go to Amtrak.com to see what it will book for a trip.
> 
> ...


actually, my main point in my first reply was that i don't think agr will let you return esx-pdx la-nol-memphis as a 2 zone redemption. you have to do it as a couple 1 zones. essex to den,abq or elp(if you want to try for the sl) and then den,abq,elp to memphis


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## Railroad Bill (Jan 11, 2013)

After looking at my trusty Amtrak TT and .com site, here is a possible Guest Rewards trip group that might work for you.

1) Memphis to Wolf Point Mt, *1 Zone sleeper*-- if on time the EB gets to Wolf Point around noon--you could get a roomette for $98 for a day trip to Essex or a coach ticket for [email protected] Spend your time in Glacier National Park.

2) Essex to LAX via Portland--* 1 Zone sleeper* on EB and CS Arrive in LA around 9pm if on time. Stay an overnight in LA

3) LAX to NOL *2 zone sleeper * arrive in New Orleans after 9pm in the evening. Hotel in NOL.

4) NOL to MEM an 8 hour ride beginning at 1:45pm the next day. $50 [email protected] or a roomette for $63 on some days. Including a nice supper on the train.

Based on what cities and trains you wanted to travel, this itinerary will work on the Amtrak Guest Rewards system. It would involve some decisions about paid trips that would be worthwhile rather than using points. You would need 50,000 AGR points for roomettes to make it work but a good use of the points in my opinion. 

We have done similar trips across the country and had a great time.


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## Amtrak George (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks and two more questions:

(Your comments are helping me understand the strange and cryptic ways of AGR (I'm an attorney and it would help me if the rules were actually printed anywhere, LOL)

1. Both us us require a lower berth on Superliners. I can't get the amtrak.com site to accept a request for one bedroom and one roomette, which might be a logical choice (we both would have access to our own shower/potty in the bedroom, and the wife would feel better about having her own place to put on makeup, shower, freshen up etc). Can the agent override this or does the one roomette/one bedroom combo have to be on separate tickets? Funny that you CAN book two roomettes OR two bedrooms but not a bedroom and a roomette.

2. When you book to an AGR "border city" such as El Paso, can you get the agent to contiue your travel and pay the rest of the way? For example, if I book Portland to El Paso using points, will they book me into New Orleans on my own dime or must I call back and try to do this separately?

Thanks for the info!


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## Railroad Bill (Jan 11, 2013)

I would talk to an agent and explain what you want to do. I suspect if you want to book two rooms as an AGR award you would need two different reservations and thus, more points would be involved.

If you wish to just continue and pay the remaining fare, you should try to see if the agent can keep you in the same room after ELP so you would not have to move. I believe since AGR people are now working for Amtrak that the agent can help book your paid trip to continue the journey.

I have not personally switched from an AGR bedroom to a paid bedroom in the same trip so I do not speak from experience here, but please call and talk to an agent and see what options they offer.

Others in our AU Group may have done this and they may offer some alternative advice.


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## Amtrak George (Jan 11, 2013)

New Orleans to Essex, MT but not vice versa:

I played around with amtrak.com reservations and if I try to book Essex MT to New Orleans it sends me other ways but not via Los Angeles. Then when I try New Orleans to Essex it lets me do it! This would be 2 zones, 40 points for a bedroom. Will guest rewards let me do it?

By the way, some of the routes they suggest for various trips are way crazier than anything even I would ever dream up..... :wacko:


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## AlanB (Jan 12, 2013)

Amtrak George said:


> 1. Both us us require a lower berth on Superliners. I can't get the amtrak.com site to accept a request for one bedroom and one roomette, which might be a logical choice (we both would have access to our own shower/potty in the bedroom, and the wife would feel better about having her own place to put on makeup, shower, freshen up etc). Can the agent override this or does the one roomette/one bedroom combo have to be on separate tickets? Funny that you CAN book two roomettes OR two bedrooms but not a bedroom and a roomette.


That's an Amtrak.com limitation. Any agent can book mixed rooms without issues, provided they know what they're doing.



Amtrak George said:


> 2. When you book to an AGR "border city" such as El Paso, can you get the agent to contiue your travel and pay the rest of the way? For example, if I book Portland to El Paso using points, will they book me into New Orleans on my own dime or must I call back and try to do this separately?


As long as you've called an AGR agent, they can book both the award and the paid at the same time. You will have two different reservations, they cannot combine them into one reservation.


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## colobok (Jan 18, 2013)

tomfuller said:


> If you truly want to see Glacier NP, you should go to Whitefish where you can rent a car to go over the Going to the Sun Road. The Isaac Walton Lodge is OK but you want to see the interior of the park.


There is no need to go to Whitefish. There are car rentals (Avis and Budget) at the East Glacier Park station, right across the street from the station.


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## Ispolkom (Jan 18, 2013)

colobok said:


> tomfuller said:
> 
> 
> > If you truly want to see Glacier NP, you should go to Whitefish where you can rent a car to go over the Going to the Sun Road. The Isaac Walton Lodge is OK but you want to see the interior of the park.
> ...


You can also rent a car at the Izaak Walton Inn. "If you come by Amtrak, car rentals are available at the front desk. If you plan on renting a car, please reserve at least two weeks in advance."


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## tomfuller (Jan 18, 2013)

Coming to East Glacier on the westbound EB you should check the hours of the car rental agency that you choose. On our latest trip, we got to Cut Bank after 6PM and had the car waiting for us in the Amtrak lot. The key was in the gas cap flap and the rental agreement was over the visor ready to sign. You might have to walk to your hotel in East Glacier pulling your luggage in the dark and rent the car in the morning when they open up.

Do they keep rental cars at Isaac Walton or do they bring them out the next morning from somewhere else?


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