# DMU's not coming to Tri-Rail



## battalion51 (Apr 30, 2006)

I've talked to some people over the past few weeks regarding Tri-Rail and the Colorado Railcar DMU project, and it doesn't look like Tri-Rail will recieve any powered cars. After testing the units it was determined because of the transmission (not having traction motors) that the units could not accelerate as quickly as the F-40's, and they were not suited for their operation. They do plan on recieveing Colorado Railcar Cab Cars and Coaches, but no powered units will be delivered, especially after the fire with the original DMU. No delivery date has been set for the new units, but a few have been tested within the past few weeks. Also note, this is not official, but it's the word on the street from some reliable sources.

Also, Tri-Rail 811 (former Amtrak 379) that spent some time with GO Transit is back from its trip to Boise. It, like the 810 (former AMTK 363), had the seperate HEP package installed. The unit has been back for a month or so and is running in regular service.

Tri-Rail has also begun running increased service during rush hours, with trains every twenty minutes in the morning southbound and every twenty northbound in the evenings. All trainsets are currently running with three cars and an F-40. There are currently 8 trainsets needed for the current schedule needs.

The GP49's that Tri-Rail purchased in 2002 from Norfolk Southern are expected to be back in the next few months. The units are currently in Kansas City being overhauled. The high hoods are being removed from the F End, and an HEP package is being installed. A few of Tri-Rail's oldest units (that are ex Conrail GP-40's) and also unreliable units will be retired when the GP-49's arrive.

The Double Track project is mostly complete, with the only stretch without Double Track between CP Whalen (just south of FTL) to NE Dania just south of the river. After my trip yesterday I really wish they had installed Cab Signals, because you lose a lot of time when you get stuck behind another train, which happens pretty frequently.


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## Sam Damon (May 1, 2006)

battalion51 said:


> They do plan on recieveing Colorado Railcar Cab Cars and Coaches, but no powered units will be delivered, especially after the fire with the original DMU.


Howzzat?

Care to elaborate a bit on "fire with the original DMU"? This is the first I've heard of that. Thanks!


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## battalion51 (May 1, 2006)

The DOT was doing some testing with it out in Pueblo when the thing caught fire. So that Demo unit ceases to exsist anymore. :unsure: Concerns me on how much they'll be able to sell future powered units.


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## Sam Damon (May 1, 2006)

Ahh, so.

Guess PennDOT won't be considering them for PGH-ALT service anytime soon...


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## George Harris (May 2, 2006)

Hopefully a thorough analysis of the situation was or will be done. The key question is, is this some glitch, some basaic design defect, or some deficiency easily or reasonably practical to fix or redesign out. The nature of the reason could make a huge difference in the outcome.

George


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## battalion51 (May 2, 2006)

I don't know what the cause of the fire was, but I do know why Tri-Rail isn't going with the design as intended. During testing with Bombardier Coaches the Engineers were forced to slowly rev up the DMU, Notch 1, wait, Notch 2, wait, etc. Whereas with a normal F-40 they can take off in 2, and once rolling, load up to 8 and get full amperage. You can't do that with the DMU because it has a transmission that you can burn up (much like your car) whereas F-40's have traction motors which can handle going straight to 8.


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## George Harris (May 3, 2006)

battalion51 said:


> I don't know what the cause of the fire was, but I do know why Tri-Rail isn't going with the design as intended. During testing with Bombardier Coaches the Engineers were forced to slowly rev up the DMU, Notch 1, wait, Notch 2, wait, etc. Whereas with a normal F-40 they can take off in 2, and once rolling, load up to 8 and get full amperage. You can't do that with the DMU because it has a transmission that you can burn up (much like your car) whereas F-40's have traction motors which can handle going straight to 8.


What were these guys thinking? IF it is not easy to drive, it is nto going to succeed. Sounds like maybe a significantly more rugged transmission would be in order.

There are three main rules for railroad equipment, adn for that matter most anything on the railroad:

Rugged,

Reliable,

Simple to use and maintain.

If you haven't got that, go away and come back when you do.

George


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## Sam Damon (May 3, 2006)

George, IIRC, the CRC DMUs had German-designed transmission.

The German concept of "maintenance" and the American concept of "maintenance", particularly where mechanical stuff is concerned, are quite different.

I had the opportunity to learn that firsthand, courtesy of Uncle.


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## battalion51 (May 3, 2006)

I'm hearing now that Tri-Rail did get powered units, so who knows with this operation. We won't really know until they go into revenue service.


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## Guest_George Harris (May 6, 2006)

Sam Damon said:


> George, IIRC, the CRC DMUs had German-designed transmission.
> The German concept of "maintenance" and the American concept of "maintenance", particularly where mechanical stuff is concerned, are quite different.
> 
> I had the opportunity to learn that firsthand, courtesy of Uncle.


I have also learned that with dealing with German track designs. Some of what they do will just leave your jaw hanging. They use bolted rail clips, not snap ins like pandrol. they do not use spikes, but screw spikes that have a rectangular, NOT square, heads, and four per tie plate, regardless of how minor the track. Their switch machine maxes out at about 450 pounds. (The AAR requires a switch machine to be able to put out a closing force of not less than 2,500 pounds.) Therefore, when you have a long switch point, and they use a lot of them, you use multiple switch points. They use an external locking that is part of the switch rodding rather than having the lock in the switch machine. I could go on and on.

George


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## Guest (May 6, 2006)

Guest_George Harris said:


> multiple switch points.
> That was supposed to say multiple switch machines.
> 
> how do you modify a post, or can you?


Oops, the fingers and the brain were not together.


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## Sam Damon (May 6, 2006)

Guest_George Harris said:


> I have also learned that with dealing with German track designs.  Some of what they do will just leave your jaw hanging.  They use bolted rail clips, not snap ins like pandrol.  they do not use spikes, but screw spikes that have a rectangular, NOT square, heads, and four per tie plate, regardless of how minor the track.  Their switch machine maxes out at about 450 pounds.  (The AAR requires a switch machine to be able to put out a closing force of not less than 2,500 pounds.)  Therefore, when you have a long switch point, and they use a lot of them, you use multiple switch points.  They use an external locking that is part of the switch rodding rather than having the lock in the switch machine.  I could go on and on.


Yup.

German mechanical engineers have a tendency to wretched excess. Come to think of it, the same is true with German engineers in general, I suppose. As you so aptly put it, "Some of what they do will just leave your jaw hanging." That's why it's so vital when working with German design engineers, to ask intelligent questions. A pal of mine who does heavy-duty EE work tells me as much.


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## AlanB (May 6, 2006)

Guest said:


> Guest_George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > multiple switch points.
> ...


George,

Since it would appear that you forgot to login, that post showed up as a guest post. Guest's can't edit their posts, but members can.

So just take care to make sure that you are logged in and you'll be fine should you need to edit a post.


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## George Harris (May 8, 2006)

Alan, I have the password logged in at my work computer, but not at home. I have forgotten it and the memory jogs did not get me there.

Sam:

In a job and location that must for now remain nameless, we had the experience of a through truss railroad bridge designed by a German Engineering company. The Biblical "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel" comes to mind. They had an extremely complex drip catcher at the open joint, and got into knots about the problems that might occur due to the lateral shifts with movement because one track went across the end at 88 degrees something minutes instead of 90 degrees. Then they forgot completely to design in the additional offset required from centerline of track to the truss in the design standards due to the curve in the same track.

George


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## AlanB (May 8, 2006)

George Harris said:


> Alan, I have the password logged in at my work computer, but not at home. I have forgotten it and the memory jogs did not get me there.


I understand, I was simply trying to answer your question about why you couldn't edit a post. 

If you still can't remember your password, then drop Anthony a line and he can reset your password for you.


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## AmtrakFan (May 27, 2006)

Sorry to bring back an old topic but apperntly the 1st couple are leaving KC, from Mid-America Rail Car.


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## battalion51 (May 28, 2006)

Yeah it looks like 813 is already back on the property. They look pretty good, but it will be different to have something on the fleet without the cowl.


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## Ashley Banks (Mar 16, 2009)

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