# The Myth of "Roads pay for themselves"



## Ryan (Jul 23, 2014)

I ran across this study from 2011 tonight.

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org/assets/28b773b9f18cdb23da3e48a8d7884854/Do-Roads-Pay-for-Themselves_-wUS.pdf

Thoughts? Flaws?



> *Highways dont pay for themselves.*
> 
> 
> Since 1947, the amount of money spent on highways, roads and streets has exceeded the amount raised through gasoline taxes and other so-called user fees by $600 billion (2005 dollars), representing a massive transfer of general government funds to highways.
> ...


----------



## the_traveler (Jul 23, 2014)

That can't be true. Roads are free - taxpayers only subsidize Amtrak!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 24, 2014)

More tolls please! Get people out of their cars!


----------



## railiner (Jul 24, 2014)

I can't cite sources offhand, but there are some strong exceptions to this....case in point, New York MTA Bridges and Tunnels. The exorbitant tolls charged on their facilites were supposed to pay off the bonds that financed their construction, and then be eliminated, or at least only cover their operating cost. The amount collected thru the years could have paid for several new crossings, but are instead used to help finance bus and train operations, that don't begin to cover what their subsidized fares take in. So motorists are paying for transit user's rides.

Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that is all bad, as having people use mass transit is beneficial to motorist's as well....helping reduce traffic to some degree. Just like people without children paying school taxes....that is just another obligation that is necessary in a society to benefit all.

The arguments come from various special interests that argue over the distribution of government resources, for what each see's as an equitable redistribution of the wealth....


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 24, 2014)

The MTA model should be the model for the whole country... Except the tolls should be extended to all Long Island and Metro North county highways. This should allow for better service and expanded routes for the metro area.

New Yorks public transit should be the minimum requirement for any city of more than 100k people.


----------



## Shawn Ryu (Jul 24, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> New Yorks public transit should be the minimum requirement for any city of more than 100k people.



Overkill

I would say over 5 million people.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 24, 2014)

Ridiculous. A place with That many people should have quadruple what New York has.


----------



## Paulus (Jul 26, 2014)

Gasoline taxes really don't have a problem with paying for maintenance, it's the construction cost that is the issue (most newly built toll roads lose money because of this as well). And of course if you don't raise the taxes, you'll get an issue creeping up over time.


----------



## jerichowhiskey (Jul 28, 2014)

railiner said:


> I can't cite sources offhand, but there are some strong exceptions to this....case in point, New York MTA Bridges and Tunnels. The exorbitant tolls charged on their facilites were supposed to pay off the bonds that financed their construction, and then be eliminated, or at least only cover their operating cost. The amount collected thru the years could have paid for several new crossings, but are instead used to help finance bus and train operations, that don't begin to cover what their subsidized fares take in. So motorists are paying for transit user's rides.
> 
> Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that is all bad, as having people use mass transit is beneficial to motorist's as well....helping reduce traffic to some degree. Just like people without children paying school taxes....that is just another obligation that is necessary in a society to benefit all.
> 
> The arguments come from various special interests that argue over the distribution of government resources, for what each see's as an equitable redistribution of the wealth....


MTA's funding however is routinely skimmed away for other things in NY's budget. In the end, it's an accounting issue.


----------



## jis (Jul 28, 2014)

Then again the highway trust fund also pays for things other than highways - like transit. FTA gets money from that fund. All in all it is all as clear as mud.


----------



## benjibear (Aug 17, 2014)

With the invention of the EZ Pass, I propose all interstate highways become toll roads.


----------



## railiner (Aug 17, 2014)

benjibear said:


> With the invention of the EZ Pass, I propose all interstate highways become toll roads.


I'll support that.....that is.........when all public high schools become tuition schools.......


----------



## Ryan (Aug 17, 2014)

And you've got to pay firefighters on the spot before they extinguish your house fire.


----------



## NW cannonball (Aug 24, 2014)

RyanS said:


> And you've got to pay firefighters on the spot before they extinguish your house fire.


Of course! THEN they file a lien against all your neighbors for saving them from the fire spreading!

I've given up hope for the dogmatic anti-government cases, bur for sure they can extinguish their own house fires. Smiley smiley.


----------



## jis (Aug 24, 2014)

Anti-government bravado lasts only until the next calamity that destroys ones home and livelihood.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


----------



## Bob Dylan (Aug 24, 2014)

jis said:


> Anti-government bravado lasts only until the next calamity that destroys ones home and livelihood.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


True this!

Signs @_T-Party Rally:

"Tell the Government to take their hands off my Social Security and Medicare!"


----------

