# Amtrak delays



## Bonser (Jun 14, 2022)

What's going on with the Zephyr this past week? It's been coming into Chicago in the wee am hours and yesterday's westbound #5 is arriving Emeryville today at 10:46. That's the ETA. Today's WB is already over 6 hours late and counting.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 14, 2022)

Broken down freights in Nevada


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## Shanson (Jun 14, 2022)

17 hours late into Emeryville, same broken coupler freight impacted both east- and westbound CZs. Today's EMY departure moved from 9:10 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. So far.


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## Bonser (Jun 14, 2022)

Shanson said:


> 17 hours late into Emeryville, same broken coupler freight impacted both east- and westbound CZs. Today's EMY departure moved from 9:10 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. So far.


Thank you. At least there's a non Amtrak reason


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## zephyr17 (Jun 14, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Thank you. At least there's a non Amtrak reason


With that kind of delay, it is seldom Amtrak.


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## Rasputin (Jun 14, 2022)

I believe there have been significant delays to various editions of the Southwest Chief as well. I understand that 4(11) had a mechanical problem with a locomotive and had to do a lengthy backup move and put the trailing loco in the lead. There was no electrical power for some time and the dining car could only serve cold cereal for breakfast and the cafe car was cash only. Five hours late the last time that I checked. 

3(12) was about 5 hours late departing Chicago due to a late-arriving inbound edition.


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## OBS (Jun 14, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I believe there have been significant delays to various editions of the Southwest Chief as well. I understand that 4(11) had a mechanical problem with a locomotive and had to do a lengthy backup move and put the trailing loco in the lead. There was no electrical power for some time and the dining car could only serve cold cereal for breakfast and the cafe car was cash only. Five hours late the last time that I checked.
> 
> 3(12) was about 5 hours late departing Chicago due to a late-arriving inbound edition.


And 6 was at least 6 hours late departing EMY today due to same reason......


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## Shanson (Jun 14, 2022)

OBS said:


> And 6 was at least 6 hours late departing EMY today due to same reason......


Reason for late arriving equipment: east of Elko NV in single-track territory, a UP freight broke down with coupler failure. Crewman sprained ankle durin repair attempt, and assistance had to come from SLC. Neither 5 or 6 could pass. 5 arrived NINETEEN hours late, and the crew got #6 ready and at the platform only 5 hours after they got in. I think that's pretty good, considering.


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## frequentflyer (Jun 14, 2022)

Seeing lots of black across the country of lengthy delays.









Intercity Rail Map


Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains




asm.transitdocs.com





What is up with the Eagle being 7 hours late into FTW? Amtrak as usual regarding the Eagles does not give a reason for the delay. Not a good day for Amtrak across the country.


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## Amtrak709 (Jun 15, 2022)

Take a look at 91-13. Looks like it has not yet made it to Miami. Also 53-13. I don't think the Auto Train departed at all yesterday due to some service disruption. Probably many "unhappy" passengers.


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## pennyk (Jun 15, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Take a look at 91-13. Looks like it has not yet made it to Miami. Also 53-13. I don't think the Auto Train departed at all yesterday due to some service disruption. Probably many "unhappy" passengers.


There was a disabled freight


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## CHImdw1522 (Jun 15, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I believe there have been significant delays to various editions of the Southwest Chief as well. I understand that 4(11) had a mechanical problem with a locomotive and had to do a lengthy backup move and put the trailing loco in the lead. There was no electrical power for some time and the dining car could only serve cold cereal for breakfast and the cafe car was cash only. Five hours late the last time that I checked.
> 
> 3(12) was about 5 hours late departing Chicago due to a late-arriving inbound edition.


I was on that train. Your report is correct - Plus an additional i hour stop between stations to repower the engines. And, a two hour delay 12 miles from Chicago due to trees on the track - which also delayed BNSF freight and Metra as well as Amtrak. All told, we were 8:30 late. Every connecting passenger missed their connecting train.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 15, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Take a look at 91-13. Looks like it has not yet made it to Miami. Also 53-13. I don't think the Auto Train departed at all yesterday due to some service disruption. Probably many "unhappy" passengers.


53(13) hit one or two shopping carts filled with mannequins and ketchup jugs. The shopping cart(s) damaged several cars (air hoses I think).


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## Barb Stout (Jun 15, 2022)

An acquaintance of mine was on the SWC from Chi to ABQ on Tuesday (yesterday) and that train was 4 hours late into ABQ. My acquaintance said most of the delay was freight interference (in Kansas, I think she said), but also it was also delayed by the Rail Runner as they approached ABQ. She said it was because the Rail Runner owns the rails that they were both on during the interference. I haven't really paid attention to commuter train interference. May I assume it happens in other places also? Is there one side that usually "wins"?


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## jis (Jun 15, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> An acquaintance of mine was on the SWC from Chi to ABQ on Tuesday (yesterday) and that train was 4 hours late into ABQ. My acquaintance said most of the delay was freight interference (in Kansas, I think she said), but also it was also delayed by the Rail Runner as they approached ABQ. She said it was because the Rail Runner owns the rails that they were both on during the interference. I haven't really paid attention to commuter train interference. May I assume it happens in other places also? Is there one side that usually "wins"?


Around Orlando if Amtrak arrives out of slot behind a Sunrail regular schedule in slot, then more often than not, it has the pleasure of tagging along behind the Sunrail as it makes its stops everywhere until it gets to Orlando. There really is very little opportunity to arrange an overtake in Sunrail territory, except at Orlando Health Sunrail/Orlando Amtrak stop.


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## frequentflyer (Jun 15, 2022)

Where in Kansas is the delays happening? Amtrak is the only train usually on the old Chief line through Dodge and the rest is double track main.


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## greatwestern (Jun 15, 2022)

Arrived in Chicago on 6 (12th June from EMY) just under 16 hours late. The reasons for the delay as described earlier in this theme.

I have to give unlimited praise to the dining room staff who excelled themselves in not only providing extra meals for sleeper passengers but also provided at least a couple of breakfasts and lunches for all coach passengers.

A special personal mention for my sleeper attendant Rita who was absolutely excellent, an observation I had already made even prior to the start of our troubles. As a Brit, I get very confused, and in certain situations do not agree with the tipping culture, but I was very happy to pass what I consider a large tip to Rita. Every sleeper attendant should be like her.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 15, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> An acquaintance of mine was on the SWC from Chi to ABQ on Tuesday (yesterday) and that train was 4 hours late into ABQ. My acquaintance said most of the delay was freight interference (in Kansas, I think she said), but also it was also delayed by the Rail Runner as they approached ABQ. She said it was because the Rail Runner owns the rails that they were both on during the interference. I haven't really paid attention to commuter train interference. May I assume it happens in other places also? Is there one side that usually "wins"?


Last week I took this picture at a small station I visit often (as part of my walk). 
In the background on the left is a SEPTA train that had dropped off pax and then moved up to get out of the way for a late Amtrak train (one of the few that stop here). The Amtrak train normally uses the next track over - closer to me -and the pax cross two tracks to board. However, another Amtrak train, running on time, needed that track to pass the other one.
This station is the last station so the SEPTA train backed up to the platform once Amtrak was on its way.


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## fdaley (Jun 15, 2022)

The eastbound Lake Shore left Chicago last night about 2:20 a.m. after what Amtrak said were mechanical problems. It finally cleared Cleveland at 11:39 this morning. The previous night's train arrived in Boston about 12:30 a.m. last night, but this one is setting up to be even later. The eastbound Capitol has been hours late the past few days too.


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## Barb Stout (Jun 15, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> Where in Kansas is the delays happening? Amtrak is the only train usually on the old Chief line through Dodge and the rest is double track main.


I wasn’t totally sure if she said where the freight interference was, so I could be incorrect in my Kansas claim.


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## Rasputin (Jun 15, 2022)

fdaley said:


> The eastbound Lake Shore left Chicago last night about 2:20 a.m. after what Amtrak said were mechanical problems. It finally cleared Cleveland at 11:39 this morning. The previous night's train arrived in Boston about 12:30 a.m. last night, but this one is setting up to be even later. The eastbound Capitol has been hours late the past few days too.


For those hoping to make connections and not wanting or able to spring for those Boston hotel prices, it must have been a night on a wooden bench in South Station.


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## rs9 (Jun 15, 2022)

fdaley said:


> The eastbound Lake Shore left Chicago last night about 2:20 a.m. after what Amtrak said were mechanical problems. It finally cleared Cleveland at 11:39 this morning. The previous night's train arrived in Boston about 12:30 a.m. last night, but this one is setting up to be even later. The eastbound Capitol has been hours late the past few days too.


This might not be the right part of the forum, but as an Amtrak newbie, how does Amtrak's cancellation policy work for very late departing trains? Would a passenger need to cancel their ticket by the listed 9:30 p.m. departure time to receive a voucher/refund (with whatever limitation/fees), or is the actual departure time of the train the cut-off point?


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## frequentflyer (Jun 15, 2022)

The Eagles are experiencing service disruptions. Another bad day in Texas.


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## jebr (Jun 15, 2022)

rs9 said:


> This might not be the right part of the forum, but as an Amtrak newbie, how does Amtrak's cancellation policy work for very late departing trains? Would a passenger need to cancel their ticket by the listed 9:30 p.m. departure time to receive a voucher/refund (with whatever limitation/fees), or is the actual departure time of the train the cut-off point?


I'm not sure how the standard refund policies get applied. Unfortunately I can't find this policy "written down" on the website anymore, but historically if a short-distance train is more than an hour late, or a long distance train is more than two hours late, any passenger can cancel for a full refund. I was able to get a full refund on a value ticket a couple weeks ago when the train entered service disruption status, but I'm not sure how it would've went otherwise.


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## joelkfla (Jun 15, 2022)

jis said:


> Around Orlando if Amtrak arrives out of slot behind a Sunrail regular schedule in slot, then more often than not, it has the pleasure of tagging along behind the Sunrail as it makes its stops everywhere until it gets to Orlando. There really is very little opportunity to arrange an overtake in Sunrail territory, except at Orlando Health Sunrail/Orlando Amtrak stop.


I was on 91 last week when it missed its slot. I checked the Sunrail schedule, and IIRC we were about 10 minutes behind a train. Seemed like they tried to get around it by switching tracks but were unsuccessful; the train moved faster for a bit but then stopped for several minutes before pulling into Winter Park. I heard the engineer on the scanner telling the dispatcher not to bother trying.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 15, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> The Eagles are experiencing service disruptions. Another bad day in Texas.


Not worth riding with the High Bucket Fares,Flex Food and No Sightseer Lounge as well as the Poor Timekeeping!


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## fdaley (Jun 15, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Not worth riding with the High Bucket Fares,Flex Food and No Sightseer Lounge as well as the Poor Timekeeping!


This is just how I feel about the Lake Shore at this point, at least for overnight travel. It's bad enough to have flex food for three meals at the LSL's high sleeper prices, but it somehow seems worse if you might be stuck on the train through an extra meal period or two. We did ride it from Boston to Albany on Monday, though, and it was right on time for that portion anyway. It's the eastbound run that's more prone to extreme tardiness.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 15, 2022)

While the Eagle is off my list, right now I prefer the Lake Shore to the Capitol. The let you hang out in the Viewliner Diner and use it as a lounge and it is staffed a bit better, with the Boston cafe having its own LSA and the Diner LSA not having to do double duty. I used to like the Capitol for its Sightseer.

Just booked the LSL for November today, in fact. It dropped to low bucket for my date.


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## MikefromCrete (Jun 15, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> An acquaintance of mine was on the SWC from Chi to ABQ on Tuesday (yesterday) and that train was 4 hours late into ABQ. My acquaintance said most of the delay was freight interference (in Kansas, I think she said), but also it was also delayed by the Rail Runner as they approached ABQ. She said it was because the Rail Runner owns the rails that they were both on during the interference. I haven't really paid attention to commuter train interference. May I assume it happens in other places also? Is there one side that usually "wins"?


 Whoever owns and dispatches the track wins.


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## ptf18 (Jun 16, 2022)

What in the world is going on with the Texas Eagle (both 21 & 22) the past couple of days? Both have been...not just late... but LATE!!!! Anyone know the real scoop and not whatever line is being put out?

Oh... In addition we came into Chicago on 6/14 on the Eagle. Only...3 hours late. One "explanation" for the delays that we were "offered" was that it was due to the "heat" and thus we had to slow down....... Yeah right. That's why the trains crossing thru the hot western part of the Country only go 40mph. 

Geez......


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## MccfamschoolMom (Jun 16, 2022)

CHImdw1522 said:


> I was on that train. Your report is correct - Plus an additional i hour stop between stations to repower the engines. And, a two hour delay 12 miles from Chicago due to trees on the track - which also delayed BNSF freight and Metra as well as Amtrak. All told, we were 8:30 late. Every connecting passenger missed their connecting train.


My son's ride home from SIU-Carbondale on the Saluki was once several hours late due to trees on the track. His dad and I had time to watch a movie where we were waiting in Kankakee, while all of the Saluki passengers were put on buses for a while, then reboarded the train (or a train, at least) N of the track blockage.


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## chrsjrcj (Jun 16, 2022)

I've been telling people to avoid Amtrak. It's already borderline useless for travel in Florida, and canceling the Meteor has only made it worse. 

Earlier this week the Star arrived Miami 16 hours late and caused the northbound Star to leave 6 hours late. It's beyond embarrassing that this state has no intercity rail. Brightline can't open and expand soon enough.


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## jruff001 (Jun 16, 2022)

ptf18 said:


> One "explanation" for the delays that we were "offered" was that it was due to the "heat" and thus we had to slow down....... Yeah right. That's why the trains crossing thru the hot western part of the Country only go 40mph.


Speed restrictions for heat are definitely a thing. The rails can expand and buckle. Yes it can be engineered around, to a point and for a price, so that is usually limited to places that routinely get extremely hot. Elsewhere, the trains have to slow down in extreme heat.

Here is some more info: Excessive heat can impact rails



> [M]main line railway tracks – infrastructure of rail, fasteners like spikes and plates, and ballast – are subject to extremes of both cold and heat, they sometimes buckle. These buckles are called “sun kinks” when they occur as a result of extreme heat. The resulting deformation of tracks can trigger derailments.
> 
> When repairing or laying new steel rails, structural and track engineers use complex mathematical equations that recognize the extreme historical temperature range at each location. They adjust the rail length before welding them together at joints by heating the two rail sections to a neutral rail temperature. This accounts for rail expansion at these joined track sections during extreme heat, as well as for possible rail contraction (pull aparts) on extremely cold days. Temperatures as high as 110° degrees are often outside the top range. When excessive heat occurs, railway track inspectors go to greater lengths to inspect tracks ahead of oncoming trains.
> 
> Railroad engineering departments and train operators coordinate “slow orders,” reductions in speeds in order to avoid derailments when air temperatures exceed 100°. At an air temperature of 110°, the temperature of the rails themselves can often reach 140°. Slowing down the trains can delay them by at least 30 minutes over a 50- to 70-mile track route.



Also, from Amtrak, but more about heat restrictions on Amtrak-owned tracks on the NEC: https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Extreme-heat-fact-sheet-7-17-19.pdf


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## City of Miami (Jun 16, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> An acquaintance of mine was on the SWC from Chi to ABQ on Tuesday (yesterday) and that train was 4 hours late into ABQ. My acquaintance said most of the delay was freight interference (in Kansas, I think she said), but also it was also delayed by the Rail Runner as they approached ABQ. She said it was because the Rail Runner owns the rails that they were both on during the interference. I haven't really paid attention to commuter train interference. May I assume it happens in other places also? Is there one side that usually "wins"?


If NER 171 departs WAS more than 20 minutes late it's stuck behind Virginia Rail Express as far as Manassas making it later and later. In the past month late arrival in CVS every single day averaging half an hour late! Sad.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 16, 2022)

City of Miami said:


> If NER 171 departs WAS more than 20 minutes late it's stuck behind Virginia Rail Express as far as Manassas making it later and later. In the past month late arrival in CVS every single day averaging half an hour late! Sad.


I hope you’re not taking 171 today. It’s running over an hour late into Philly.


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## City of Miami (Jun 16, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I hope you’re not taking 171 today. It’s running over an hour late into Philly.


No, I'm home, AB. I'll bet it's a minimum of 2 hours late by the time it gets to cvs. Too bad, they're chasing off customers. There are still 60-100+ boarding every morning and there's already quite a load from Lynchburg & Roanoke; admittedly northbound does much better on the NS tracks than on NEC.


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## rs9 (Jun 16, 2022)

Does anyone have a read on the current daily delays for the combined Lincoln Service/River Runner (319)? The past few weeks have been pretty brutal. I've done the CHI-STL segment but never the entire route to KCY. Are the delays building from the usual Union Pacific lack of cooperation on CHI-STL or are there other problems?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 16, 2022)

rs9 said:


> Does anyone have a read on the current daily delays for the combined Lincoln Service/River Runner (319)? The past few weeks have been pretty brutal. I've done the CHI-STL segment but never the entire route to KCY. Are the delays building from the usual Union Pacific lack of cooperation on CHI-STL or are there other problems?








ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Train History Search


ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps History and Archive



juckins.net


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## tpheron (Jun 16, 2022)

Hi, I am taking the California Zephyr in a couple weeks and I have a concern about how late it might be. We are going on an cruise the next day so I am nervous about catching a 2 hour flight, is this possible? I am hearing sometimes how long the Zephyr can be delayed.


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## pennyk (Jun 16, 2022)

tpheron said:


> Hi, I am taking the California Zephyr in a couple weeks and I have a concern about how late it might be. We are going on an cruise the next day so I am nervous about catching a 2 hour flight, is this possible? I am hearing sometimes how long the Zephyr can be delayed.


I certainly would not expect to catch a flight 2 hours after the scheduled arrival of any train. Maybe I am reading your question incorrectly, but it is hard to predict how late a train may be.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Jun 17, 2022)

tpheron said:


> Hi, I am taking the California Zephyr in a couple weeks and I have a concern about how late it might be. We are going on an cruise the next day so I am nervous about catching a 2 hour flight, is this possible? I am hearing sometimes how long the Zephyr can be delayed.


When would your flight to the cruise's origin port take off? From what I've heard about potential delays on the Zephyr, I would arrange things so that your connecting flight to the cruise port would be the day after your scheduled arrival in Emeryville. (My husband and I plan to ride the CZ round-trip next year, and I plan to book an overnight hotel stay in-between. Whether or not we get a full night's sleep will depend on how much the westbound CZ is delayed by the time we arrive in Emeryville.)


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## cirdan (Jun 17, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> There was no electrical power for some time and the dining car could only serve cold cereal for breakfast and the cafe car was cash only.


I wonder if that also meant the refrigerators stopped working, which would mean much of the food would have to be trashed.

Or is there a backup power source for that?


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## OBS (Jun 17, 2022)

cirdan said:


> I wonder if that also meant the refrigerators stopped working, which would mean much of the food would have to be trashed.
> 
> Or is there a backup power source for that?


Per FDA rules, Food kept in a closed, nonoperating refrigerator, can be safely kept for 4 hours before it must be condemmed.


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## neroden (Jun 17, 2022)

fdaley said:


> The eastbound Lake Shore left Chicago last night about 2:20 a.m. after what Amtrak said were mechanical problems.


Chicago Mechanical Department strikes again. Amtrak really needs to get a mechanical department at Chicago which is competent, and staffed up, enough to get the trains out on time.


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## fdaley (Jun 17, 2022)

neroden said:


> Chicago Mechanical Department strikes again. Amtrak really needs to get a mechanical department at Chicago which is competent, and staffed up, enough to get the trains out on time.


That particular run lost time the whole way, arriving in ALB a few minutes before 11 p.m. and reaching NYP at the attractive time of 2:55 a.m. The Boston section reached South Station at 5:56 a.m. 

The next night's 48, which was held at CHI till after 11:30 p.m. for delayed trains from the west, made it to Albany by 8 p.m. and Boston at 2:04 a.m. last night.

The next one is only 20 minutes late out of Cleveland this morning, though.


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## Amtrak709 (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrak seems to be having a rough time these past few days ref long delays and disruptions. I wonder what time the Silver Star 92-15 got to NYP this morning?? It was running 10+ hours late the last time I checked last night.


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## fdaley (Jun 17, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Amtrak seems to be having a rough time these past few days ref long delays and disruptions. I wonder what time the Silver Star 92-15 got to NYP this morning?? It was running 10+ hours late the last time I checked last night.


6:39 a.m. at NYP on a two-night haul from Florida


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## Rasputin (Jun 17, 2022)

fdaley said:


> That particular run lost time the whole way, arriving in ALB a few minutes before 11 p.m. and reaching NYP at the attractive time of 2:55 a.m. The Boston section reached South Station at 5:56 a.m.


This happens to 448 every so often and it is so pathetic that it is laughable. 448 was so late to Boston (9 hours 24 minutes) arriving at 5:56 a.m. that any connecting passengers to Maine missed the first Concord bus to Maine which departs at 5:45 a.m. and had to wait for the next bus to Maine.

At least the passengers were on the train for the night instead of getting a hard bench or floor at South Station for a bed. As I understand it the next morning's arrival at 2:04 a.m. did get the bench.


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## daybeers (Jun 17, 2022)

STB, where are you?
Not just for freight delays, but for equipment origination too.


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## fdaley (Jun 17, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> This happens to 448 every so often and it is so pathetic that it is laughable. 448 was so late to Boston (9 hours 24 minutes) arriving at 5:56 a.m. that any connecting passengers to Maine missed the first Concord bus to Maine which departs at 5:45 a.m. and had to wait for the next bus to Maine.
> 
> At least the passengers were on the train for the night instead of getting a hard bench or floor at South Station for a bed. As I understand it the next morning's arrival at 2:04 a.m. did get the bench.



Yeah, in some ways I'd rather have 448 be nine hours late than 4-5 hours late, especially if I have a sleeper room. At least Boston is functioning at 6 a.m. At 2 a.m., it's mostly closed, and an unplanned night's stay at one of the hotels is godawful expensive.


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## fdaley (Jun 17, 2022)

Today it's the Crescent's turn. No. 20 was due out of Atlanta at 11:29 p.m. last night but didn't leave till 5:01 a.m. on account of a "trespasser incident" in Alabama. (Sounds like a fun wait at Peachtree Station.) It's currently about five hours down and seems sure to miss the last same-day connections to Albany, Hartford/Springfield and Boston.


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## joelkfla (Jun 17, 2022)

fdaley said:


> Today it's the Crescent's turn. No. 20 was due out of Atlanta at 11:29 p.m. last night but didn't leave till 5:01 a.m. on account of a "trespasser incident" in Alabama. (Sounds like a fun wait at Peachtree Station.) It's currently about five hours down and seems sure to miss the last same-day connections to Albany, Hartford/Springfield and Boston.


Can't blame that on Amtrak. It's up to the police to decide how long they want to investigate the scene, and up to the host railroad to clear any debris from the tracks.


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## jis (Jun 17, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Can't blame that on Amtrak. It's up to the police to decide how long they want to investigate the scene, and up to the host railroad to clear any debris from the tracks.


And then there is the Coroner who has to come and take care of paperwork if a fatality is involved. Sometimes it is hard to find a Coroner in the sticks in a timely manner.


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## John Bobinyec (Jun 17, 2022)

We all feel that PSR has increased the delays to Amtrak. But has it improved the movement statistics for the host railroads? I'm thinking of "dwell times", "velocities", etc...

jb


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## fdaley (Jun 17, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Can't blame that on Amtrak. It's up to the police to decide how long they want to investigate the scene, and up to the host railroad to clear any debris from the tracks.



Oh, I agree, you can't blame Amtrak for trespasser incidents or grade-crossing accidents -- or for the disabled freight trains that caused the Silver Star problems this week and the California Zephyr extreme delay that rippled through the system for a few days and contributed to delays on the Lake Shore and Capitol. But when you combine all of these incidents with factors that are more within Amtrak's control (such as mechanical problems that result in a five-hour delay getting No. 48 out of Chicago), you unfortunately leave a lot of non-train-buff customers with the feeling that this mode of transportation has a lot of problems.

On the matter of freight-related delays, certainly it makes sense to try to use the legal system to get the freight railroads to live up to their responsibilities, though it's still not clear to me how well this effort will work.

I do think these extreme delays are another reason to prioritize the quality of the on-board experience. When you're on a 24-hour or 30-hour trip that winds up being 8 or 12 hours late, it's a lot less tolerable if you're on a train that's lost its Sightseer Lounge and/or dining service and only has one food car that's running out of flex meals -- and worse, you've maybe been bumped from sleeper to coach with little or no notice, as has been happening this summer.

I also think Amtrak's scheduling choices have worsened the problem when there are unavoidable delays to certain trains, such as the northbound Crescent and eastbound Lake Shore. When the Crescent was scheduled out of Atlanta at 7 or 8 p.m., a delay of 4-5 hours, while unpleasant, would have been a lot more tolerable and would likely still have gotten the train into the Northeast in time for most connections. And with the Lake Shore's late evening departure from Chicago, delays of even a couple of hours can easily mushroom into a post-midnight arrival into Boston.


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## kangforpres (Jun 18, 2022)

3 Zephyr's are out on their routes right now at least 12 hours late? What's the reason? Crew problems, equipment, UP traffic problems?


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## jruff001 (Jun 19, 2022)

fdaley said:


> Oh, I agree, you can't blame Amtrak for trespasser incidents or grade-crossing accidents -- or for the disabled freight trains that caused the Silver Star problems this week and the California Zephyr extreme delay that rippled through the system for a few days and contributed to delays on the Lake Shore and Capitol. But when you combine all of these incidents with factors that are more within Amtrak's control (such as mechanical problems that result in a five-hour delay getting No. 48 out of Chicago), you unfortunately leave a lot of non-train-buff customers with the feeling that this mode of transportation has a lot of problems.



Yep. I was on 92(16) which was 6+ hours late into DC on Friday and down the hall from me were a couple of Amtrak first-timers who left as part of the "never again" crowd.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 19, 2022)

Beautiful sunny day here on the NEC in DE…and trains are stopped. Oh, did I mention very windy too?
A tree fell & took down a wire that knocked the signals out.


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## Anderson (Jun 19, 2022)

I can probably let this image speak for itself. There's an _Acela _that is down 2.5 hours as of now, among other things. There are literally so many trains delayed that it's overwhelming the display boards. Updated since I took the photo, 91 is due into BAL at 4:44 (vs 1:55), 2213 at 4:50 (vs 2:23), etc. The only trains "on time" here are a few that are originating out of WAS...and the delay pile is bad enough that they're almost getting shoved off the screen.

So...does anyone know what's gone to Helena up here?


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## joelkfla (Jun 19, 2022)

Anderson said:


> View attachment 28653
> 
> I can probably let this image speak for itself. There's an _Acela _that is down 2.5 hours as of now, among other things. There are literally so many trains delayed that it's overwhelming the display boards. Updated since I took the photo, 91 is due into BAL at 4:44 (vs 1:55), 2213 at 4:50 (vs 2:23), etc. The only trains "on time" here are a few that are originating out of WAS...and the delay pile is bad enough that they're almost getting shoved off the screen.
> 
> So...does anyone know what's gone to Helena up here?


Maybe this: Amtrak delays


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## fdaley (Jun 19, 2022)

Crescent No. 20 had another 5 a.m. departure from Atlanta this morning. (It was due out last night at 11:29.) The run started two and a half hours late out of New Orleans, I assume because of the late arrival of inbound equipment the night before. (The previous night's No. 19 arrived at NOL at 3:12 a.m.)


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 19, 2022)

It was a fun afternoon, for those of us watching, not for those on the trains. When the trains finally started moving it was one after another for a bit.
Alas, my phone and power pack were dying so I only took videos of a few going slowing through Newark, DE


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## daybeers (Jun 20, 2022)

This, along with the mechanical delays, has been happening much too often. Not hopeful for the OTP of the NEC this year.


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## cassie225 (Jun 20, 2022)

Oh my, I guess I will have to take a knock out pill and start taking the plane. Although with all their cancellations lately, I might just stay home


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## Anderson (Jun 21, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> It was a fun afternoon, for those of us watching, not for those on the trains. When the trains finally started moving it was one after another for a bit.
> Alas, my phone and power pack were dying so I only took videos of a few going slowing through Newark, DE


Oh, the train was "fun" alright...

I'm going to be calling Amtrak to give them a polite piece of my mind. The crew of 99 died at NCR, and this was probably inevitable well before the train got to BAL. It took them about an hour to get the replacement crew out to us...why they didn't already have a crew coming up to either NCR or BWI is beyond me. At one point when people were asking what they should do I ended up hollering "Go over and take the Metro. It'll be faster."

Pax going to WAS got cross-loaded to a Regional terminating there. There was no equivalent cross-loading for ALX-RVR pax onto the NFK train that came through before we left (the late NFK train actually overtook us while we were at NCR). This didn't affect me (I was heading to NPN), but...what a mess.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 21, 2022)

Anderson said:


> Oh, the train was "fun" alright...
> 
> I'm going to be calling Amtrak to give them a polite piece of my mind. The crew of 99 died at NCR, and this was probably inevitable well before the train got to BAL. It took them about an hour to get the replacement crew out to us...why they didn't already have a crew coming up to either NCR or BWI is beyond me. At one point when people were asking what they should do I ended up hollering "Go over and take the Metro. It'll be faster."
> 
> Pax going to WAS got cross-loaded to a Regional terminating there. There was no equivalent cross-loading for ALX-RVR pax onto the NFK train that came through before we left (the late NFK train actually overtook us while we were at NCR). This didn't affect me (I was heading to NPN), but...what a mess.


Obviously I don’t know, but perhaps there wasn’t a replacement crew available because of all the late arriving trains. Even deadheading crews would have been stuck on one of those trains.


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## Rasputin (Jun 21, 2022)

Anderson said:


> ...what a mess.


Sadly, that pretty well sums up Amtrak nowadays.


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## Palmland (Jun 24, 2022)

Trains news wire has a story abut BNSF embargoing carload traffic to California because of congestion. It would be an interesting time to ride the SWC. Some traffic (fuel, military, chemicals, grain) will be handled on a permit basis. This is viewed as a relatively short term problem (through July) with some restrictions starting to be lifted by July 6.

"BNSF Railway will limit carload traffic bound for California through the end of July as it struggles to overcome congestion...
We have experienced a sharp increase in congestion throughout Southern California during the past few weeks due to several high wind events concurrent with the high levels of traffic seeking to move through the region,” the railroad said. “In addition, flash flooding from monsoonal rains caused a service outage earlier this week on a portion of our Southern Transcon near Laguna, New Mexico, approximately 70 miles west of Belen."


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## jis (Jun 24, 2022)

Palmland said:


> Trains news wire has a story abut BNSF embargoing carload traffic to California because of congestion. It would be an interesting time to ride the SWC. Some traffic (fuel, military, chemicals, grain) will be handled on a permit basis. This is viewed as a relatively short term problem (through July) with some restrictions starting to be lifted by July 6.
> 
> "BNSF Railway will limit carload traffic bound for California through the end of July as it struggles to overcome congestion...
> We have experienced a sharp increase in congestion throughout Southern California during the past few weeks due to several high wind events concurrent with the high levels of traffic seeking to move through the region,” the railroad said. “In addition, flash flooding from monsoonal rains caused a service outage earlier this week on a portion of our Southern Transcon near Laguna, New Mexico, approximately 70 miles west of Belen."



The question of relevance to Amtrak, the subject matter of this thread, is whether this will improve anything for the SWC or not.


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## Stremba (Jun 24, 2022)

Well I guess I will find out. I am going to be on the SWC departing CHI on 7/1 and departing LAX on 7/8 for my return trip. From a purely selfish point of view I am hoping this move by BNSF improves the SWC’s OTP.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 7, 2022)

Yesterday's #21/#421 from Chicago steadily lost time after Leaving St Louis and is now shown in a Service Disruption after arriving 9+ Hours Late into Dallas @ 9:30PM!!!

I can find no information as to why, and Amtrak Track a Train is showing " Unavailable" when I tried to find out if it made it to Fort Worth!

It's one of those LD Trains that's just Vanished!!!


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## Cal (Jul 7, 2022)

On the app when you look for train status it doesn't say cancelled. Hmmm.


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## Cal (Jul 7, 2022)

However, on the Forth Worth railcam (linked below) theres chatter about it being terminated in FTW with the rest of the route being served by bus. Probably right.


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## Oreius (Jul 7, 2022)

When I was walking into Pittsburgh, I saw the Capitol Limited #30 pulling out. It was more of a “Capitol Limitedette” with only about 6 cars. I wonder why it was over an hour and 1/2 late?


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jul 7, 2022)

Oreius said:


> When I was walking into Pittsburgh, I saw the Capitol Limited #30 pulling out. It was more of a “Capitol Limitedette” with only about 6 cars. I wonder why it was over an hour and 1/2 late?


An hour and a half is nothing for an LD train, sadly. Probably the usual - freight train interference,


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 7, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Yesterday's #21/#421 from Chicago steadily lost time after Leaving St Louis and is now shown in a Service Disruption after arriving 9+ Hours Late into Dallas @ 9:30PM!!!
> 
> I can find no information as to why, and Amtrak Track a Train is showing " Unavailable" when I tried to find out if it made it to Fort Worth!
> 
> It's one of those LD Trains that's just Vanished!!!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 7, 2022)

5(5) & 6(6) will be bussed between SLC & Green River

From FB last night


> 1000 ft of track and a portion of highway 6 is washed out and it’s not looking to be fixed till tomorrow afternoon at the soonest.


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## b1xn00d (Jul 7, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> 5(5) & 6(6) will be bussed between SLC & Green River
> 
> From FB last night


Driving a bus from Green River to SLC without US-6 is a big detour in its own right. Hopefully there's still one lane open.


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## PaTrainFan (Jul 7, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> An hour and a half is nothing for an LD train, sadly. Probably the usual - freight train interference,


For the Capitol, that is ON TIME.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 7, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> 5(5) & 6(6) will be bussed between SLC & Green River
> 
> From FB last night


Thanks Betty! 

I'd think another "run hard and put up wet" P-42 crapping out since this Orphan Train still only uses 1 to run a 32+ Hour Route in 100+ Temps!


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## frequentflyer (Jul 7, 2022)

Cal said:


> However, on the Forth Worth railcam (linked below) theres chatter about it being terminated in FTW with the rest of the route being served by bus. Probably right.








Webcam


View the activity of passenger train lines and numerous freight trains, as Trinity Metro shares live video of Fort Worth Central Station.




ridetrinitymetro.org





You can see the Texas Eagle sitting in FTW already turned to become 22. Waiting for buses from SAT. The TE is sitting further down the track to make room for Heartland Flyer when it arrives and so the Flyer can move to the holding track when finished unloading.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 7, 2022)

Cal said:


> However, on the Forth Worth railcam (linked below) theres chatter about it being terminated in FTW with the rest of the route being served by bus. Probably right.



Thanks Cal!


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## jebr (Jul 7, 2022)

On a nearly-4-hour late Builder between MKE and CBS - started out in Chicago 3hr 30min down with no stated reason as to why. At least they're providing some bags of Chex Mix and bottles of water, I suppose.


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## freejak (Jul 8, 2022)

West bound arrived 5 1/2 hours late to Pittsburgh when I rode it in June.


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## moosejunky99 (Jul 8, 2022)

I noticed lately there is a lot of mechanical issues departing Chicago. on twitter feed.. unforeseen engine swap yesterday


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## Amtrakfflyer (Jul 13, 2022)

Amtrak's western long-haul routes experience disastrous start to July - Trains


CHICAGO — The first 10 days of July have seen significant departure and timekeeping issues for Amtrak’s long-distance trains traveling west and south of Chicago, with few passengers able to make planned transfers at the end of their trips. And even those who did make connections often faced...




www.trains.com





comments are interesting as well almost all point to incompetence in management ranks.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 13, 2022)

Amtrakfflyer said:


> Amtrak's western long-haul routes experience disastrous start to July - Trains
> 
> 
> CHICAGO — The first 10 days of July have seen significant departure and timekeeping issues for Amtrak’s long-distance trains traveling west and south of Chicago, with few passengers able to make planned transfers at the end of their trips. And even those who did make connections often faced...
> ...


Do any of these commenters actually have the knowledge or experience to be so sure that its all "incompetence in management ranks?"

When things go wrong, it's natural to want to pin blame on someone. Sometimes things happen that are beyond anyone's control, like wildfires that cancel trains. I'm sure that management made some mistakes in dealing with stuff, but there's a difference between making mistakes and "incompetence." After all, these same managers were running the trains reasonably well for years prior to this summer. I don't think it's likely that someone beamed them with incompetence rays and all of a sudden turned them into clueless idiots.


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## John Bobinyec (Jul 13, 2022)

I generally blame management for:

_chronic _crew shortages
_chronic _equipment failures
jb


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## MIrailfan (Jul 13, 2022)

(CZ) It seems to be the route with the most extremely late trains lately. Is there track work and/or weather happening on that route? Or the oldest equipment?


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## NSC1109 (Jul 14, 2022)

Major derailment in Palermo, ND. Both mains blocked. #8 trapped at Wolf Point per TransitDocs. No estimated time to reopen. It was a stack train.


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## moosejunky99 (Jul 14, 2022)

I remeber last year i was on a train.. it was running 2 hours late but the train hit by tree branch and broke a light bulb in a severe storm. So, they had to switch engines in the middle of that trip.


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## NSC1109 (Jul 14, 2022)

moosejunky99 said:


> View attachment 28860
> Service disruption due to disabled freight train.
> Not everything is amtraks fault... a lot of train delays i noticed have been freight train or train got in late and had a late start to head back.
> View attachment 28861




a thread was already started on this….


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## moosejunky99 (Jul 14, 2022)

damn.. i did not know it was a derailment... crazy... good find!!


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## moosejunky99 (Jul 14, 2022)

That was pretty quick to get a up a bus bridge.


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## Eric in East County (Jul 15, 2022)

Last month, we had to reschedule our trip to Ohio when our confirmed Southwest Chief bedroom reservations were shot out from under us as a result of Amtrak replacing the second sleeper with a Trans-Dorm sleeper and then not being able to downgrade us because our SWC No. 4 train was sold out.

Ironically, we’d been scheduled to depart the day after the derailment of a SWC No. 4 train near Mendon, Missouri. As a result of that derailment, the on-time arrivals and departures of both east and westbound SWC trains were seriously impacted.

To satisfy our own curiosity, we tracked the OTP of the trains we were supposed to have been on to see how we would have made out. Here are the results:

The Pacific Surfliner No. 777 that we were supposed to have been on left San Diego on time at 12:01 p.m. and arrived at Los Angeles Union Station 4 minutes late.

SWC No. 4 left LAUS on time at 5:55 p.m. and arrived in Chicago two days later 3 hours and 6 minutes late, but still in enough time for us to have made connections with Capitol Limited No. 30, which departed on time and arrived in Toledo 52 minutes late.

For the return trip, our CL No. 29 train departed from Toledo at 6:15 a.m. (53 minutes late) and arrived in Chicago 59 minutes late.

SWC No. 3 departed Chicago on time at 2:50 p.m. Two days later, and largely due to “freight train interference” in Arizona and California, it arrived at LAUS 9 hours and 2 minutes late, but still allowing us 8 minutes to have made connections with southbound Pacific Surfliner 784 to San Diego. (Since we would have had all our luggage with us, we would probably have detrained from the SWC in Fullerton and made connections with No. 784 there.) No. 784 departed Fullerton at 5:33 p.m. and arrived at the Old Town Transit Center (which is closer to where our car would have been parked) at 7:52 p.m.

So, despite the derailment, the trains we were supposed to have been on performed about as well as we expected them to. If the trains we’ll be on when we make this trip in late September-early October perform as well, we’ll be satisfied.


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## Stremba (Jul 15, 2022)

We also just took the SWC round trip from CHI-LAX shortly after the Mendon derailment. On 7/1 we departed almost 2 hrs late due to mechanical issues. The train had to stop twice in Illinois also for mechanical issues (presumably a recurrence of the one causing the delayed departure). We had to stop again at Ft Madison to allow the bridge to be closed (there was a boat passing under; unfortunately it was dark and almost bed time so I did not really get to see this). We then had an almost two hour stop in the middle of the night at KCY - was sleeping so not sure why. We then had signal issues in NM due to rain, and to top it off freight interference in CA between Needles and Barstow. After all that, we wound up arriving in LA at 4:30, about 8.5 hours late. Not complaining; I was just happy we weren’t booked on one of the cancelled trains.

Trip back was much smoother and we got to CHI “only” about two hours late, mostly due to freight traffic, but we did have a freight car on fire blocking a track in Winslow AZ. We had to pass the station and back into it on another track.


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## Eric in East County (Jul 15, 2022)

Stremba said:


> We also just took the SWC round trip from CHI-LAX shortly after the Mendon derailment. On 7/1 we departed almost 2 hrs late due to mechanical issues. The train had to stop twice in Illinois also for mechanical issues (presumably a recurrence of the one causing the delayed departure). We had to stop again at Ft Madison to allow the bridge to be closed (there was a boat passing under; unfortunately it was dark and almost bed time so I did not really get to see this). We then had an almost two hour stop in the middle of the night at KCY - was sleeping so not sure why. We then had signal issues in NM due to rain, and to top it off freight interference in CA between Needles and Barstow. After all that, we wound up arriving in LA at 4:30, about 8.5 hours late. Not complaining; I was just happy we weren’t booked on one of the cancelled trains.
> 
> Trip back was much smoother and we got to CHI “only” about two hours late, mostly due to freight traffic, but we did have a freight car on fire blocking a track in Winslow AZ. We had to pass the station and back into it on another track.


When heading west on Southwest Chief No. 3, we’re never too concerned when it’s running even as late as 7 or 8 hours. For one thing, we get to see scenery in western Arizona that we’d ordinarily miss because it’s usually dark when our SWC trains go passed it. Then too, we don’t have to worry about a tight connection in Los Angeles since southbound Pacific Surfliner trains to San Diego depart every 90 minutes or so well into the evening.

On our trip last year, No. 3 was running about 7 hours late when we finally reached California. Just before we arrived at Barstow, it was announced that lunch would be served to sleeping car passengers at 12 noon. Even though our choices were limited to burgers and grilled cheese sandwiches, receiving this extra meal gratis was very much appreciated.


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## Tk48states (Jul 15, 2022)

49 loses almost3hrs tonite between Rhinebeck andAlbany how is this possible?


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## Tk48states (Jul 15, 2022)

answered my own query, had to wait for 449


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jul 16, 2022)

Stremba said:


> We then had an almost two hour stop in the middle of the night at KCY - was sleeping so not sure


There is a long stop at KCY as it is an operating crew change point. I think when I took the SWC it was about an hour.


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## Stremba (Jul 16, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> There is a long stop at KCY as it is an operating crew change point. I think when I took the SWC it was about an hour.


It’s scheduled for 45 minutes, I believe. It is typically a maintenance, refueling, and crew change stop. The 2 hour stop on my trip might have had to do with fixing the earlier mechanical issues. Like I said it was in the middle of the night, so I’m not entirely sure what was going on (Arrived around 2AM, departed around 4AM). I do know that we made several stops along the way for mechanical issues and had to wait for repairs. After leaving KCY, there were no further stops for mechanical issues, so maybe they took some time in KCY to get everything fixed.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 16, 2022)

Stremba said:


> It’s scheduled for 45 minutes, I believe. It is typically a maintenance, _refueling_, and crew change stop. The 2 hour stop on my trip might have had to do with fixing the earlier mechanical issues.


They do not fuel at the KC station stop, but at the fuel pad at Argentine Yard a few miles west,


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## Shel-bat (Jul 16, 2022)

Hello

Some of you may have seen that the silver star 92 was 17+ hours late arriving in NYC today at around noon .

I am curious about how to approach compensation from amtrak or if it is even likely that I would be able to receive some sort of refund.

Thank you


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## zephyr17 (Jul 16, 2022)

Call Customer Relations on Monday when they are there. Call the 800 number, ask for an agent. Once you get an agent, ask to be connected with Customer Relations. They are there during normal business hours Eastern, M-F.

I am sure you will get something.


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## Shel-bat (Jul 17, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Call Customer Relations on Monday when they are there. Call the 800 number, ask for an agent. Once you get an agent, ask to be connected with Customer Relations. They are there during normal business hours Eastern, M-F.
> 
> I am sure you will get something.


Thank you ! I will give it a shot.


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## Cal (Jul 17, 2022)

Just gonna put this here… see if you can spot the abnormality.


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## Stremba (Jul 17, 2022)

Cal said:


> Just gonna put this here… see if you can spot the abnormality.


I would certainly be miffed if I were going to Portland and wound up in Seattle (or Vice versa) I have to think it’s an error in Amtrak’s tracking system, not a real mixup.


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## jis (Jul 17, 2022)

Stremba said:


> I would certainly be miffed if I were going to Portland and wound up in Seattle (or Vice versa) I have to think it’s an error in Amtrak’s tracking system, not a real mixup.


Fortunately only the locomotives got switched, not the trains


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## thully (Jul 17, 2022)

8(16) seems to have departed at 5:09am this morning (and 28(16) shows no departure time at all) - wonder if that’s confusing the system. Would hate to have a ticket for that train - would probably get no sleep (or cancel and book a plane ticket) unless they could get me a sleeper on 8(17).


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## jis (Jul 17, 2022)

thully said:


> 8(16) seems to have departed at 5:09am this morning (and 28(16) shows no departure time at all) - wonder if that’s confusing the system. Would hate to have a ticket for that train - would probably get no sleep (or cancel and book a plane ticket) unless they could get me a sleeper on 8(17).


According to Amtrak Alerts Twitter feed both have left their respective origins early this morning and are operating around 12 hours behind schedule.


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## west point (Jul 17, 2022)

The label on 27 showing white means service disruption.That white should have been on 7 if anything. But we can chalk it up to IT not getting alll faults onto their computer.


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## frequentflyer (Jul 19, 2022)

Not sure why the SWC is incurring so many delays. It runs on mostly double track main with fast intermodals.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 19, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> Not sure why the SWC is incurring so many delays. It runs on mostly double track main with fast intermodals.


BNSF recently embargoed certain types of shipments on the route due to issues, so they are clearly having issues.


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## Cal (Jul 19, 2022)

frequentflyer said:


> Not sure why the SWC is incurring so many delays. It runs on mostly double track main with fast intermodals.


When I was on the Chief just last week the line was PACKED. At one point we were running past freight trains so much thst less than 30 seconds after we passed one (which was stopped) we passed another stopped one on the same track as the first. I think at one point I saw three or four stopped ones right next to each other on the same track. Oddly enough Amtrak and metra interference were the things that delayed us the most, although some freight too and even some boat traffic delayed us.


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## NSC1109 (Jul 19, 2022)

Cal said:


> When I was on the Chief just last week the line was PACKED. At one point we were running past freight trains so much thst less than 30 seconds after we passed one (which was stopped) we passed another stopped one on the same track as the first. I think at one point I saw three or four stopped ones right next to each other on the same track. Oddly enough Amtrak and metra interference were the things that delayed us the most, although some freight too and even some boat traffic delayed us.


The Southern Transcon is in chaos right now. Trains are parked everywhere, with the Southwest and California divisions having the most trouble keeping things moving. 

Just wait until the craft guys go on strike….


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## Cal (Jul 19, 2022)

NSC1109 said:


> The Southern Transcon is in chaos right now. Trains are parked everywhere, with the Southwest and California divisions having the most trouble keeping things moving.
> 
> Just wait until the craft guys go on strike….


We actually weren’t delayed for freight until the Midwest IIRC


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## dlagrua (Jul 20, 2022)

The Californina Zephyr as of this time is showing 14 hrs 23 minutes late arriving into Chicago. Does anyone know the reason for this? Delays like this should be unacceptable as they cause missed connections.


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## PaunchyPirate (Jul 20, 2022)

I don't know the reasons, but from the tracking site, it looks like they were over 5 hours late starting the trip leaving Emeryville. They then lost another 6 hours somewhere between Glenwood Springs and Granby, Colorado. Looks like most of the delay is from these 2 "events".


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 20, 2022)

Anyone can check Amtrak alerts on Twitter. You don’t need an account. Even when it asks you to sign in you can opt out and continue scrolling. Below is not the latest alert for 6(18).


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## Bonser (Jul 20, 2022)

Well, the Zephyr rolled into CUS at about 5:30 AM yesterday (about 15 hrs late) and today's #5 is estimated to stagger in tomorrow at 4:47AM. If I was is on that I'd should be rooting for more delays so arrival would be at a more civilized hour. And on that Amtrak very well might accommodate.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 20, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Well, the Zephyr rolled into CUS at about 5:30 AM yesterday (about 15 hrs late) and today's #5 is estimated to stagger in tomorrow at 4:47AM. If I was is on that I'd should be rooting for more delays so arrival would be at a more civilized hour. And on that Amtrak very well might accommodate.


Maybe Amtrak has cut another "deal" to increase the Schedule like the one for the Crescent? 

Or perhaps, since people like the O-Dark- Thirty arrival into LAX by the Sunset, they figure it'll be OK to do the same to the Chief and the Zephyr??


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## joelkfla (Jul 20, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Anyone can check Amtrak alerts on Twitter. You don’t need an account. Even when it asks you to sign in you can opt out and continue scrolling. Below is not the latest alert for 6(18).


Shortcut: https://twitter.com/AmtrakAlerts


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## west point (Jul 20, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Or perhaps, since people like the O-Dark- Thirty arrival into LAX by the Sunset, they figure it'll be OK to do the same to the Chief and the Zephyr??


The early Sunset LAX aarrival is not as bad as it could be. Almost all arriving passengers are on Mountain or even more on central time. That does mitigate the arrival time for those passengers who have not reset their internnal clocks.


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## Cal (Jul 20, 2022)

west point said:


> The early Sunset LAX aarrival is not as bad as it could be. Almost all arriving passengers are on Mountain or even more on central time. That does mitigate the arrival time for those passengers who have not reset their internnal clocks.


And half the time it's late anyway. I was on #1 into LA this morning, we were just under two hours late. Still woke up at 5:20 though, railfan in me wants more train time.


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## Willbridge (Jul 21, 2022)

Cal said:


> And half the time it's late anyway. I was on #1 into LA this morning, we were just under two hours late. Still woke up at 5:20 though, railfan in me wants more train time.


Train 6 was 7½ hours late into CHI on Friday, July 15th, missing everything. My next train (59) was next to be available on Monday night. Passengers were put up in Swissotel at $200 a night. Next day, after numerous dead-ends, I contacted Guest Rewards. They were able to get me on the Cardinal of that evening to New Orleans via Charlottesville. First time I ever rode Train 19. We were an hour late into NOL, but a day earlier than if I had waited in Chicago. It let me use a paid for part of my reunion here. No additional points were assessed. [I'm on a borrowed computer so if questions there will be a delay in responding.]


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## Bonser (Jul 21, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> Train 6 was 7½ hours late into CHI on Friday, July 15th, missing everything. My next train (59) was next to be available on Monday night. Passengers were put up in Swissotel at $200 a night. Next day, after numerous dead-ends, I contacted Guest Rewards. They were able to get me on the Cardinal of that evening to New Orleans via Charlottesville. First time I ever rode Train 19. We were an hour late into NOL, but a day earlier than if I had waited in Chicago. It let me use a paid for part of my reunion here. No additional points were assessed. [I'm on a borrowed computer so if questions there will be a delay in responding.]


An update on yesterday's eastbound Zephyr that was scheduled to arrive at 2:50 PM. It limped into CUS at a rise and shine 6:02 AM this morning.


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## Bonser (Jul 21, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> An update on yesterday's eastbound Zephyr that was scheduled to arrive at 2:50 PM. It limped into CUS at a rise and shine 6:02 AM this morning.


And for those counting that's 15 hrs and 12 minutes late.


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## TrailsandRails (Jul 21, 2022)

I’m on train 6 right now. We are just pulling into Lincoln. Still 4 hours behind schedule. We didn’t leave Denver until almost midnight.


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## Bonser (Jul 21, 2022)

TrailsandRails said:


> I’m on train 6 right now. We are just pulling into Lincoln. Still 4 hours behind schedule. We didn’t leave Denver until almost midnight.


Do you have a Chicago connection to make?


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## TrailsandRails (Jul 21, 2022)

Thankfully not this time. Visiting family in Galesburg. Loos like 7:30 for Chicago.


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## Joe from PA (Jul 22, 2022)

The 2 Silver Stars passed each other last evening, just north of Ashland, VA. Southbound 91 was 1+ hour late, and northbound 92 was 5+ hours late.


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## Michigan Mom (Jul 22, 2022)

Speaking of delays... does anyone have any info on what happened to the Wolverine services July 21st (and impacting the 22nd)? What the heck are "signal delays"?


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## Cal (Jul 22, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Speaking of delays... does anyone have any info on what happened to the Wolverine services July 21st (and impacting the 22nd)? What the heck are "signal delays"?


Probably signals were down?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 22, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Speaking of delays... does anyone have any info on what happened to the Wolverine services July 21st (and impacting the 22nd)? What the heck are "signal delays"?


Something like when a traffic light goes out or flashes yellow for all traffic. Trains have to proceed with caution.


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## Laurajeantx (Jul 23, 2022)

Wonder what happened to the NB. We watched it leave Orlando just about 15 minutes late.


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## Michigan Mom (Jul 23, 2022)

Cal said:


> Probably signals were down?


Thanks Cal I got that much... you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge. While a dedicated rail rider, I'm not in the category of fans who understand many of the elements that go into the rail operating systems. For example, you will never hear me wax eloquent on engines as so many do. My appreciation of the engines extends to if they work.  Back to those signals. What signals are these exactly? Why would they take 8 hours to repair? How often does this happen?Is there no workaround? 8 hour delay on a corridor train that normally takes 6 hours from end to end is worth trying to understand a little bit more about.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jul 23, 2022)

Traffic signal like the one on a street that give you permission to cross a intersection. 

Signals down is a very generic terminology. Could be anything, I do believe the Michigan line is dispatch from Chicago so a break in the communication lines is quite possible. It can be as simple as a burnt out lamp. No lamp, must consider it red and stop and call dispatch. With PTC positive train control more computer and communication needs, easier to mess it up.

Why it takes to repair a signal down call 8 hours. Well you have to notice the problem, then call out your repair member(s). Then the MOW forces have to figure out what wrong, and where it when wrong. Then fix the problem, that might need parts, or completely replace something expensive that not found in there truck.

_Just thinking here: Digging up a fiber optic line. Car accident that hit a control box and smashed it. Someone fail to pay a bill for a service._

Might do well to email Michigan DOT and ask them. A 8 hour delay on a 6 hour trip is not something we need to expect or accept.


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## tricia (Jul 23, 2022)

Amtrak delays rise with travel demand as summer season booms: Amtrak passengers are getting their share of misery – from delays to cancellations and long waits in customer service lines Washington Post 7/22/22


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 23, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Thanks Cal I got that much... you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge. While a dedicated rail rider, I'm not in the category of fans who understand many of the elements that go into the rail operating systems. For example, you will never hear me wax eloquent on engines as so many do. My appreciation of the engines extends to if they work.  Back to those signals. What signals are these exactly? Why would they take 8 hours to repair? How often does this happen?Is there no workaround? 8 hour delay on a corridor train that normally takes 6 hours from end to end is worth trying to understand a little bit more about.


Not long ago on the Northeast Corridor signals went out between Newark, DE and Perryville, MD due to a tree falling down (it was a sunny day) and knocking out a wire. I was maybe 1/2 miles from where the tree went down, though I did not see it happen, but did hear the bang from the wire "breaking" (at least that's what it sounded like to me). 
This caused trains south of Wilmington, DE and north of Abington, MD to stop basically where they were and others "stacked up" behind them while the problem was taken care of. It was 1-2 hours, as I recall, before the trains starting moving again....slowly as they were using a slower speed track for both directions to get around the downed tree. Though a bad day for the crews and passengers, it was an interesting day for those of us who happened to be at the Newark, DE station to watch.


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## joelkfla (Jul 23, 2022)

tricia said:


> Amtrak delays rise with travel demand as summer season booms: Amtrak passengers are getting their share of misery – from delays to cancellations and long waits in customer service lines Washington Post 7/22/22


_"The Auto Train is Amtrak’s most-delayed route, arriving on-time 24 percent of the time, according to data from the Federal Railroad Administration."_​
I'm surprised to hear that.


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## AmtrakWPK (Jul 23, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Something like when a traffic light goes out or flashes yellow for all traffic. Trains have to proceed with caution.


We were on 92 once years ago coming up from Winter Haven, I think, and there were a bunch of wildfires from roughly Lakeland to Kissimmee, and the superheated air from the fires knocked out the microwave links carrying signal information and commands up to CSX JAX. Wherever the signal system loses the command link, all the signals automatically go to a Red, Stop indication. That's by design. At that point, 92 had to stop at each red signal and get authorization from the CSX Dispatcher to proceed past it at 10 MPH, go to the next signal, stop there, and wait for authorization from Dispatch (etc...). It took us a LONG time at 10 MPH to get to Kissimmee, at which point the signals from there north were functioning and we could continue at normal authorized speeds. It wasn't all that bad for us, as the conductor was a friend and it gave us an extended opportunity to catch up on each other's lives.


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## Thunderfoamer (Aug 3, 2022)

The southbound Coast Starlight spent nine hours in my hometown of Klamath Falls last night. It didn't depart until 7:30 this morning, over nine hours down. The comment on Amtrak Alerts said the delay was due to weather related issues. Can anyone in NorCal elaborate? Train 14 was held at Sacramento for roughly two and a half hours, same reason. Thanks -


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## jis (Aug 3, 2022)

Not sure, but might have something to do with the track being in the proximity of the McKinney Fire which is spreading wildly in Siskiyou County up there.


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## Thunderfoamer (Aug 3, 2022)

> Not sure, but might have something to do with the track being in the proximity of the McKinney Fire which is spreading wildly in Siskiyou County up there.



I thought that might be the reason. When I checked the CalFire map, I found that the McKinney fire is over 20 miles away from the UP mainline that the Starlights use. There don't appear to be any fires near the Shasta Route.


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## jis (Aug 3, 2022)

Thunderfoamer said:


> I thought that might be the reason. When I checked the CalFire map, I found that the McKinney fire is over 20 miles away from the UP mainline that the Starlights use. There don't appear to be any fires near the Shasta Route.


I know. It might have been a precautionary thing when it was spreading in its direction and they did not have it in control. At least that is my guess. Once they got the advance controlled they dropped the precautionary blockage. No good by chance finding a passenger train in the middle of an inferno.

But a posting on TO from someone from that area says that there was a washout at Andesite that had to be repaired before trains could move. So scratch my other hypothesis.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 3, 2022)

I read there were washed out tracks in NoCal and 3 sets of trains were stuck north of it which has caused cancellations


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## jis (Aug 3, 2022)

Apparently Whitney Creek turned into a torrent with runoff from Mt. Shasta and washed away some track at or near Andesite.


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## Bonser (Aug 6, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> Train 6 was 7½ hours late into CHI on Friday, July 15th, missing everything. My next train (59) was next to be available on Monday night. Passengers were put up in Swissotel at $200 a night. Next day, after numerous dead-ends, I contacted Guest Rewards. They were able to get me on the Cardinal of that evening to New Orleans via Charlottesville. First time I ever rode Train 19. We were an hour late into NOL, but a day earlier than if I had waited in Chicago. It let me use a paid for part of my reunion here. No additional points were assessed. [I'm on a borrowed computer so if questions there will be a delay in responding.]


Speaking of lateness this summer I've checked the arrival stats into Chicago of trains 4,6, and 8 for the period of 4/26/22 to 8/4/22 - a period of, I think, 100 days. #4 arrived on time ZERO times (0%) during this period. #6 arrived on time 2 times (2%) and #8 came into the Windy City on time a whopping 20 times (20%). Somebody else can check the other LD trains but I don't think they are much better.These arrival stats are beyond awful. Amtrak cannot survive with performances like these. Whether Amtrak, the Surface Transportation Board and/or Congress will mitigate this is a very important question. We can offer our opinions on food, attendants and the like all we want but without a vast improvement in timeliness Amtrak's long distance network will die. That's the number one function of any transport system - to go from point A to point B.


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## Joe from PA (Aug 7, 2022)

91 Silver Star leaving NYC yesterday was 2 1/2 hours late reaching Richmond. At the same time, 91 that left NYC on the day before was 3 1/2 hours late reaching Ft. Lauderdale.


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## dlagrua (Aug 7, 2022)

The delays seem to be old news but could they be related to the intense heatwave in the USA slowing down all rail traffic?


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## Bonser (Aug 7, 2022)

dlagrua said:


> The delays seem to be old news but could they be related to the intense heatwave in the USA slowing down all rail traffic?


If they are old news they continue to be "new" old news. They've been happening for well over three months now on a daily basis. We've had a hot summer but not record breaking and anyway it's been going on since well before summer. As I opined before, Amtrak's LD network cannot be sustained with performances like this. It's demise will make most other topics discussed here moot.


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## west point (Aug 7, 2022)

dlagrua said:


> The delays seem to be old news but could they be related to the intense heatwave in the USA slowing down all rail traffic?


Even the NEC is tasking heat delays. As well the hear restrictionsare not uniform.Some track is at a higher neutral temp than others. Then you have the PRR style CAT that has different speed restrictions at differntpoints. It is all a matter of what the local temp is . Different temps different allowed max speeds.


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## TinCan782 (Aug 7, 2022)

This past several weeks I've been on the Sunset Limited and Crescent.
#2(17) into NOL was 4:19 late...the ever popular freight interference; a "Traction Motor Support Bearing" alarm which proved false after two inspections are test runs*; heat restrictions between SAS and HOS; one "dead on the law" because of the aforementioned problems. Timekeeping went south around Maricopa (1.5 hrs+) and got deteriorated from there.
#20(21) was five hours late into Alexandria...freight interference; held by dispatcher in Alabama due to high winds; a short time later again held due to trees down ahead.
#19(01) was 1:31 late into NOL... freight interference (sat one mile outside Meridian for close to an hour); PTC caused "penalty brake application" with resulting conversations with dispatcher, inspection of train and restoring the air and restricted speed until next signal. PTC caused because a green signal dropped to dark right in front of our train which we had no way to stop in time!* Things went south around ATL.
#1(03) was 2:20 late into LAX (actually ok with us since that is our home station and that was a better arrival time than 0-dark-thirty. Things collapsed between SAS and DRT and continued to LA. In Bowie, AZ were put into a stub siding because of "freight congestion". Besides the wait, we then had to make a reverse move back out onto the main.

Regarding freight interference, the conductors and engineers were really proactive in recording freight engine numbers every time we encountered one, late or not. Info for Amtrak to include in their delay reports.*

* Regarding the traction motor support bearing alarm and the PTC penalty event and logging freight engine numbers, having a scanner on allowed me to learn what was going on. Interesting in both cases.


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## Eric in East County (Aug 7, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> Speaking of lateness this summer I've checked the arrival stats into Chicago of trains 4,6, and 8 for the period of 4/26/22 to 8/4/22 - a period of, I think, 100 days. #4 arrived on time ZERO times (0%) during this period. #6 arrived on time 2 times (2%) and #8 came into the Windy City on time a whopping 20 times (20%). Somebody else can check the other LD trains but I don't think they are much better.These arrival stats are beyond awful. Amtrak cannot survive with performances like these. Whether Amtrak, the Surface Transportation Board and/or Congress will mitigate this is a very important question. We can offer our opinions on food, attendants and the like all we want but without a vast improvement in timeliness Amtrak's long distance network will die. That's the number one function of any transport system - to go from point A to point B.


Since joining AU back in 2016, we have become much more aware of the less-than-stellar on-time performance record of Amtrak’s long-distance trains. We have also seen first-hand how a LD trip where everything is going fine can quickly fall apart due to the weather or because of human or structural failure. (2022 seems to have had more than its share of LD trains arriving late as a result of mischance or the elements.)

As seniors, long-distance trains still remain our best and least stressful means of traveling across country. (Many of the people who take LD trains on a regular basis undoubtedly feel the same way we do.)

Most of our LD train “survival skills” were gained from reading AU posts regarding how to deal with specific situations.

Now, whenever we travel, we assume that things aren’t going to go as expected and that we’ll probably be arriving late. This is why we try to stay flexible and have one or more back-up plans ready to fall back on.

As to whether or not the consistently poor on-time performance of Amtrak’s long-distance trains eventually brings about their demise remains to be seen. But it certainly could be a major contributing factor.


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## Widfara (Aug 7, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> 53(13) hit one or two shopping carts filled with mannequins and ketchup jugs. The shopping cart(s) damaged several cars (air hoses I think).


That is terroristic behavior, making the crew think there were people involved. Sick people to do this.


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## joelkfla (Aug 7, 2022)

Widfara said:


> That is terroristic behavior, making the crew think there were people involved. Sick people to do this.


No, it was just a prank, probably by some kids. A stupid prank, but a prank nonetheless.


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## Joe from PA (Aug 8, 2022)

dlagrua said:


> The delays seem to be old news but could they be related to the intense heatwave in the USA slowing down all rail traffic?


Summer it's 6 degrees above the average, Fall wet leaves on the tracks, Winter cold and snow, Spring wind and rain. BTW, 91 Silver Star was over 3 hours late arriving in Miami yesterday.


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## joelkfla (Aug 8, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> BTW, 91 Silver Star was over 3 hours late arriving in Miami yesterday.


Sadly, that's normal these days. 

History for Amtrak 91 at MIA (Miami, FL)

Average Ar delay: 2 hours and 44 minutes lateMedian Ar delay: 2 hours and 31 minutes late






ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Train History Search


ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps History and Archive



juckins.net


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## Bonser (Aug 8, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Sadly, that's normal these days.
> 
> History for Amtrak 91 at MIA (Miami, FL)
> 
> ...


That's my point. How can Amtrak continue without providing reliable trains? It can't. These past three months have been horrific.


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## Michigan Mom (Aug 8, 2022)

Some delays are actually advantageous - such as an early morning scheduled arrival. Under no circumstances, though, would I plan a same day connection to anything from a long distance train. TO a LD train from a corridor service, or car/bus journey, yes. Flying in for a LD train I book a hotel overnight.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 8, 2022)

Tom Booth said:


> That's my point. How can Amtrak continue without providing reliable trains? It can't. These past three months have been horrific.


Well, timekeeping has been quite unreliable since at least the early 1990s. There was a multiple year long period in the 2000s that Starlight was routinely 8-14 hours late nearly every day. There was also about 3 years more recently during the height of the Bakken oil boom that the Empire Builder would also be frequently 8-12 hours late.

Not excusing it, but it really is nothing new and the last three months are nothing very far out of the ordinary of the last 30 years and Amtrak is still here. I would argue the current lack of equipment availability and stupid new tricks like less than daily service and throwing people out booked accommodations are more of a threat.


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## JWM (Aug 8, 2022)

Canadian Pacific seems the most reliable at dispatching an L.D. train, but what happens past St. Paul is out of their control. This issue will never be solved until there are severe financial penalties for the contracting roads for delaying these trains for any reason than an emergency with equipment or track conditions ahead. This does not include giving priorities to freight. CN has also ruined the "Canadian's" time keeping in Canada with the same type of behavior.


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## sentinal (Aug 9, 2022)

Anyone have any idea what happened today according to Amtrak it arrived on time to Cumberland MD, but isn't to arrive in Martinsburg WV till after 7pm tonight?


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 9, 2022)

I believe engine issues and have a being towed by a freight engine


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## sentinal (Aug 10, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I believe engine issues and have a being towed by a freight engine


thanks, I was curious how you go from on time to 8 hours late one stop later


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## Charles785 (Aug 10, 2022)

Anyone know why there is a delay on Amtrak Coast Starlight #14 near Chiloquin, Oreogon, today?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 10, 2022)

@Amtrakalerts says "unforseen trackwork" north of Klamath Falls and that it is back on the move as of two hours ago. Asm transit docs and Amtrak track a train are stale, so no further info there.


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## MIrailfan (Aug 11, 2022)

At least 2-3 times a week a Amtrak Michigan route Wolverine train is delayed due to mechanical issues. Ever since the new Chargers.


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## yakarobed (Aug 11, 2022)

Hi everyone. I'm anticipating my 2nd Amtrak trip that was to leave LVW at 6:15 this evening. Currently, the train is 3 hrs behind in CBR and Amtrak anticipates arriving in LVW 20:09. Can it really make up an hour by the time it gets to us? Then it shows arriving in STL on time! The Amtrak agent said it was delayed due to a "police action." Our first trip this summer was delayed coming home by over 8 hours because it hit 4 cows. My advice to everyone. Don't book the Texas Eagle the end of October because I'm traveling again!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 11, 2022)

yakarobed said:


> Hi everyone. I'm anticipating my 2nd Amtrak trip that was to leave LVW at 6:15 this evening. Currently, the train is 3 hrs behind in CBR and Amtrak anticipates arriving in LVW 20:09. Can it really make up an hour by the time it gets to us? Then it shows arriving in STL on time! The Amtrak agent said it was delayed due to a "police action." Our first trip this summer was delayed coming home by over 8 hours because it hit 4 cows. My advice to everyone. Don't book the Texas Eagle the end of October because I'm traveling again!


I just Googled up today's #22 and it's not being Shown on Amtraks Trak-a-Train Map at all!!!??

Amtrak Status Maps does show it arriving into Ft Worth @ 515pm, almost 4 Hours down, but no Departure time is shown..????

Earlier, as you said, it was running over 3 Hours Late between CBR and FTW , but no arrival time is Shown for FTW,DAL or Points East!!!!

Hope you catch your Train. But even if you do it'll be too Late to eat if you're in the Sleepers so you might want to grab a Meal in LWV!!!


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## yakarobed (Aug 11, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> I just Googled up today's #22 and it's not being Shown on Amtraks Trak-a-Train Map at all!!!??
> 
> Amtrak Status Maps does show it arriving into Ft Worth @ 515pm, almost 4 Hours down, but no Departure time is shown..????
> 
> ...


Sitting at LVW, patiently waiting on 22. Should be here in about 30 minutes. Another lesson learned. If your train is delayed to LVW, get your checked luggage here early early. We got here at 7:30 and no one here to check it.


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## railiner (Aug 11, 2022)

I wonder if this year’s delays besides weather and mechanical causes may be attributed to the labor shortages suffered almost universally?
All businesses and even government positions seem to be suffering.
I can’t understand why these formerly coveted jobs go unfulfilled…


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## joelkfla (Aug 11, 2022)

yakarobed said:


> Sitting at LVW, patiently waiting on 22. Should be here in about 30 minutes. Another lesson learned. If your train is delayed to LVW, get your checked luggage here early early. We got here at 7:30 and no one here to check it.


I asked an Amtrak phone agent, and they said the checked luggage cut-off is 30 or 45 minutes before the scheduled departure, not the actual departure, no matter how late the train may be.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 11, 2022)

yakarobed said:


> Sitting at LVW, patiently waiting on 22. Should be here in about 30 minutes. Another lesson learned. If your train is delayed to LVW, get your checked luggage here early early. We got here at 7:30 and no one here to check it.


Happy to see that #22 made up some time after the Metroplex, but surprised about there not being anyone to check your Luggage 2 hours before Train Arrival.

The few times I've been @ the nicely Remodeled LVW Station, the Agents were friendly,helpful and handled Luggage efficiently!

The Eagles have been losing Time in all 4 States on the route, (especially Texas and Arkansas) mostly Due to Freight interference .


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## yakarobed (Aug 12, 2022)

It's 7:18 in the morning and we're stopped again, waiting on another freighter. Between Peach Orchard and Knobel, Arkansas. I don't think we'll make our 7:30 arrival in St. Louis! There was a 4 hour delay around midnight due to a disabled freighter. Best sleep I got all night. Who thought it was a good idea to put the sleeper car right behind the engine??? 

The lady at LVW was very apologetic and said she kept the checked baggage open as long as she could. 

It's all a learning opportunity. I would still rather be sitting here on a nice air conditioned train than on a hot tarmack on a plane where they keep turning the a/c off! 

Current estimated time of arrival in STL, 11:56 a.m.


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## dlagrua (Aug 12, 2022)

SWC train #4 projected 10 hrs 25 min late going into Chicago today 8-12-22. That puts ETA at about 1:20AM tomorrow. Does anyone know what happened? If this keeps up it could have a severe impact on ridership.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 12, 2022)

dlagrua said:


> SWC train #4 projected 10 hrs 25 min late going into Chicago today 8-12-22. That puts ETA at about 1:20AM tomorrow. Does anyone know what happened? If this keeps up it could have a severe impact on ridership.


Did you check Amtrak's twitter alerts? You'll probably get your answer faster from that than posting on a forum with your question.


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

My son is on Train11 now going from Portland to Eugene. He just text me that they are delayed due to 2 different derailments. 
Anyone have further information?


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## trimetbusfan (Aug 13, 2022)

TEREB said:


> My son is on Train11 now going from Portland to Eugene. He just text me that they are delayed due to 2 different derailments.
> Anyone have further information?


Route to exit union station is blocked. Freight car derails close to Union Station in downtown Portland


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

I guess they’ll be there a while. I hope they brought extra food with them as he got a Message this morning that there was no cafe car on the train.


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## trimetbusfan (Aug 13, 2022)

TEREB said:


> I guess they’ll be there a while. I hope they brought extra food with them as he got a Message this morning that there was no cafe car on the train.


Oh wow. I’ve been hearing of that happening more and more recently. On one of my recent trips the train didn’t have a cafe for the first 15 hours. 

If he is in Coach they will probably order some food at a later station stop (most likely pizza or sandwiches).


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

TEREB said:


>


This is what they have they handed out.


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## joelkfla (Aug 13, 2022)

TEREB said:


> View attachment 29181
> View attachment 29181
> 
> 
> ...


Is it warm? And is that 2 meals, or one?


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Is it warm? And is that 2 meals, or one?


They each got one. He said lukewarm.


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

That’s the train station from above and the detailed train just before

We’re going backwards then rerouted to a freight line for a few miles to bypass it 

They need staff from union Pacific to engineer the train apparently because the conductors don’t know the route we need to take? 

These are my son’s texts to me


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## zephyr17 (Aug 13, 2022)

TEREB said:


> View attachment 29190
> 
> 
> That’s the train station from above and the detailed train just before
> ...


Engineers must be "qualified" on routes they operate over. That means they must be extremely familiar with physical characteristics of the line. If they are detoured over a route they are not qualified on, a "pilot" engineer who is qualified must be in the cab. Although the original engineer will often still be operating the train.

In this case, it sounds like the train will back up to North Portland Junction where UP resumes its own line from the trackage rights it has on BNSF from Tacoma to North Portland. It will the proceed down the UP from North Portland Junction via Albina to East Portland just across the Steel Bridge from the station, where the normal route is regained.

It is lucky that
a. A detour route is available
b. UP is willing to allow it
c. A UP pilot engineer is available.


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## TEREB (Aug 13, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Engineers must be "qualified" on routes they operate over. That means they must be extremely familiar with physical characteristics of the line. If they are detoured over a route they are not qualified on, a "pilot" engineer who is qualified must be in the cab. Although the original engineer will often still be operating the train.
> 
> In this case, it sounds like the train will back up to North Portland Junction where UP resumes its own line from the trackage rights it has on BNSF from Tacoma to North Portland. It will the proceed down the UP from North Portland Junction via Albina to East Portland just across the Steel Bridge from the station, where the normal route is regained.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your explanation. I’ll be sure to tell my son.


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## MIrailfan (Aug 14, 2022)

How come the engineer has to know the physical characteristics? Relief bus drivers/airline pilots only have to be qualified on the bus/plane they are driving or flying, respectively.


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## Joe from PA (Aug 14, 2022)

Silver Star left NYC yesterday 2 hours late, and arrived in Miami 3 hours late.


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## kitkat94 (Aug 14, 2022)

MIrailfan said:


> How come the engineer has to know the physical characteristics? Relief bus drivers/airline pilots only have to be qualified on the bus/plane they are driving or flying, respectively.


Some airports require that pilots have special training to land there due to terrain, other obstacles or limited approach routes.

Route knowledge means that the engineer will know where crossings and switches are, amongst other things.


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## joelkfla (Aug 14, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> Silver Star left NYC yesterday 2 hours late, and arrived in Miami 3 hours late.


Probably looking for food or mattresses.


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## Thunderfoamer (Aug 14, 2022)

TEREB said:


> My son is on Train11 now going from Portland to Eugene. He just text me that they are delayed due to 2 different derailments.
> Anyone have further information?



Did your son detrain at Eugene? Train 11 is now getting a daylight trip down the Sacramento River Canyon and over Shasta Lake. It would be hell to be that late, but the scenery is a compensation.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 14, 2022)

MIrailfan said:


> How come the engineer has to know the physical characteristics? Relief bus drivers/airline pilots only have to be qualified on the bus/plane they are driving or flying, respectively.


Just the opposite for railroads, operating crews must be qualified on the physical characteristics of the territory they operate over, but can operate any locomotive.

The reason is they must know precisely where they are at all times. Curves and grades drastically affect train handling and slack action for freight trains and poor train handling on a 12,000 foot freight train with half going downhill and half uphill can cause the train to break in two.

It is also required for general safety. If there is a track gang with working with limits between MP 46.3 and MP 47.1, you had better know where that is, how far you are from it, when and where you have to call the gang foreman for permission to proceed through those limits before you get there.

A simple illustration of the requirement for familiarity is the Nisqually wreck of 2017. While the NTSB called out several contributing factors, one was that Amtrak's qualification runs for crews on the new line were insufficient. The engineer on that train had only ONE run southbound run at the throttle during qualification. On the wreck train, he lost track of precisely where he was, thought he was not as far down the line as he was, and went into a 30 mph curve at nearly 80 mph, only applying the brakes shortly before when he realized his error. Both distraction and inattention were ruled out as causes, he had insufficient situational awareness due to improper qualification.

Three people died.


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## west point (Aug 14, 2022)

For the back up at PDX the back up conductor would also need a pilot. Maybe the conducctor was qualified for the BNSF tracks even though he operates south of PDX or the inbound conductor from SEA stayed on duty to do the back up?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 14, 2022)

west point said:


> For the back up at PDX the back up conductor would also need a pilot. Maybe the conducctor was qualified for the BNSF tracks even though he operates south of PDX or the inbound conductor from SEA stayed on duty to do the back up?


Either way, the T&E crew that brought the train down from Seattle probably still had hours left and my understanding is all PDX crews are qualified all routes out of PDX, north to Seattle, south to K Falls, and east to Pasco (engineers)/Spokane (conductors).

From a HOS standpoint, it might have made sense to hold the Seattle crew and have them perform the backup move and UP detour, and have the southbound crew come on duty at East Portland. They probably didn't though, the PDX-KFS crew probably came on duty at Union Station and did the backup/detour.


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## TEREB (Aug 14, 2022)

Thunderfoamer said:


> Did your son detrain at Eugene? Train 11 is now getting a daylight trip down the Sacramento River Canyon and over Shasta Lake. It would be hell to be that late, but the scenery is a compensation.


Yes. They got off in Eugene.


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## Shanson (Aug 15, 2022)

That Portland delay is requiring passengers who were planning to connect with 2/422 at LAX to do so in Ontario.

In the meantime 2/422 was delayed 30 minutes in departing duke to a sleeper passenger being unhappy with his room and becoming belligerent. The authorities had to be called. (He saw the online photos of a Bedroom, but booked a Roomette. "I'm not sleeping in that!")

EDIT: turns out his daughter did the booking. He had no idea what he was getting, so it was a complete shock. But he did not react well.


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## mikewrite (Aug 15, 2022)

Here's how the 6 train of the CZ has done arriving in CHI since mid July. Had my gal and I known of all this madness we would never have attempted this Yellowstone bucket-list trip by Amtrak! We'd have worked out some way to drive it or ride buses or something. And from what I'm reading in these forums, this is the norm across the LD trains. I'm just astounded by the "service" being provided. Any other business would fold very quickly.


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## Bonser (Aug 15, 2022)

mikewrite said:


> Here's how the 6 train of the CZ has done arriving in CHI since mid July. Had my gal and I known of all this madness we would never have attempted this Yellowstone bucket-list trip by Amtrak! We'd have worked out some way to drive it or ride buses or something. And from what I'm reading in these forums, this is the norm across the LD trains. I'm just astounded by the "service" being provided. Any other business would fold very quickly.
> 
> View attachment 29228


And it doesn't improve going back into June.


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## Michigan Mom (Aug 15, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Probably looking for food or mattresses.


Ya know, I'm really starting to regret reporting that. 
Anyway, if the SS left NYP 2 hours late and was only 3 hours late into MIA, I'd consider that a win.


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## Asher (Aug 15, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Ya know, I'm really starting to regret reporting that.
> Anyway, if the SS left NYP 2 hours late and was only 3 hours late into MIA, I'd consider that a win.


It’s looking like if I have nothing to do and I love drama, catch a train.


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## Joe from PA (Aug 16, 2022)

To be fair, the Silver Star actually reached Miami on time yesterday.


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## Amtrak709 (Aug 16, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> To be fair, the Silver Star actually reached Miami on time yesterday.


The Star actually did what? -- on time. It's been a rough several months for the Star for on time performance. Hope it continues to improve. The Silvers (Star, Meteor, and once the Comet) have been my favorite trains for the last 60 years.


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## trimetbusfan (Aug 18, 2022)

Recently saw this video detailing what happens if your train is delayed and you miss your connection...


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## Shanson (Aug 18, 2022)

On a positive note, the Sunset/Eagle which departed LAX on 8/14 (30 minutes late due to the gentleman I mentioned above) reached SAS only 1 hr 20 minutes late, thanks to an additional delay due to a passenger medical emergency in Alpine.

This was just in time for the 422 cars to be attached to the Eagle so we did NOT have to ride the bus! Hooray!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 18, 2022)

Shanson said:


> On a positive note, the Sunset/Eagle which departed LAX on 8/14 (30 minutes late due to the gentleman I mentioned above) reached SAS only 1 hr 20 minutes late, thanks to an additional delay due to a passenger medical emergency in Alpine.
> 
> This was just in time for the 422 cars to be attached to the Eagle so we did NOT have to ride the bus! Hooray!


The reason the Medical Emergency was handled in Alpine is that they have the only Hospital between Van Horn and Del Rio, a distance of 300+ miles.

I was on the Sunset #1 one time when we stopped in Marfa( used to be a Stop for the Sunset) and Alpine EMTs met the Train @ a Crossing to handle a Medical Emergency and later we found out that the Person was DOA @ the Alpine Hospital.


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## Shanson (Aug 18, 2022)

Car attendant Steve said he thought the patient survived.


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## Bonser (Aug 20, 2022)

The eastbound Zephyr might actually be early into Chicago this afternoon! Presently, it's only 23 minutes late at Omaha making this a banner run so far. The last time it was early into Chicago was May 5th. Late every other day since - mostly by hours and lots of missed connections. Maybe today is the beginning of something better. Hope springs eternal.


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## UserNameRequired (Aug 21, 2022)

We think we were 12 minutes early. We were even held back for several minutes for a Metra train and something else (couldn’t understand radio) in Chicago.


Tom Booth said:


> The eastbound Zephyr might actually be early into Chicago this afternoon! Presently, it's only 23 minutes late at Omaha making this a banner run so far. The last time it was early into Chicago was May 5th. Late every other day since - mostly by hours and lots of missed connections. Maybe today is the beginning of something better. Hope springs eternal.


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## dlagrua (Aug 21, 2022)

Just a thought but if we combine inflation with a possible recession demands for goods may go down and freight traffic could decline. That in itself may free up some space on the rails for Amtrak to run closer to schedule. The SWC and EB routes are particularly crowded.


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## Michigan Mom (Aug 21, 2022)

I will absolutely take one of the Silvers to Miami in the future (or other coastal stop), regardless of the on time performance. If my other family members make good on their intentions of flying and meeting me there, that's fine too, the delays won't bother me as much if I don't feel responsible for other people enjoying the trip. I wonder if Amtrak might just incorporate more padding into the schedules so that people have a more realistic idea of the arrival times. It really affects your planning if you know to expect a 930-10 pm arrival instead of 6:30.


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## west point (Aug 22, 2022)

Something crazy is going on with the Crescent. If 19 arrives ATL near on time then it does fairly well to NOL with exception usuaally 30 - 45 late at Meridian and Laurel. @0 is arriving at ATL usually on time with usual lates at TCL of 30 - 45 minutes late. This mostly for last 2 weeks. Of course the usual delays of vehicles or tresspassers will make them later. But a couple ties 20 still able to make up most time especially north bound from Gastonia - Danville.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 24, 2022)

The southbound Texas Eagle flew through Dwight, IL (about 20 miles NE of the station stop in Pontiac) at about 3:45PM today (roughly 1/2 hour later than its usual time) -- but it had 6 cars behind the engine in its consist today, instead of the 5 cars the engine has usually been pulling lately.


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 25, 2022)

The northbound Texas Eagle just went past my office window at 2:53PM. I assume that's probably delayed, but don't have the timetable at hand to confirm by how much. (I know that in the past I've sometimes seen the northbound TE go by a good 2 hours earlier in the day.)


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 25, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> The northbound Texas Eagle just went past my office window at 2:53PM. I assume that's probably delayed, but don't have the timetable at hand to confirm by how much. (I know that in the past I've sometimes seen the northbound TE go by a good 2 hours earlier in the day.)


 Timetable? You don't need no stinkin' timetable! You got Amtrak.com!


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 25, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Timetable? You don't need no stinkin' timetable! You got Amtrak.com!


I'm old-school, and keep forgetting that!


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 25, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> I'm old-school, and keep forgetting that!


 Don't let Amtrak pull that one. Even the "new schoolers" could find vaue in a printed timetable, if they were provided. Not that anyone is looking to rekindle (intended) that fire.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 25, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Timetable? You don't need no stinkin' timetable! You got Amtrak.com!


Or use the tracker









Intercity Rail Map


Live map of Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada trains




asm.transitdocs.com


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## JoshP (Aug 26, 2022)

Not to mention that Silver Star 92 last night was over 8 hours late and is due into NYP at or about 3am. Silver Star has been coughing lot of late trains lately. To see that train status: Train 92 of 08/24/2022


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 26, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Or use the tracker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By the time I saw this, the northbound TE had completed its run and wasn't showing up on that site. I have used the tracker in the past, though, when my kids have been taking the train to/from grad school, because the tracker usually had more detailed info about a train's progress than the Amtrak app on my phone (the only device I'd have with me at the station, waiting for my kids or my kids' trains).


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 26, 2022)

MccfamschoolMom said:


> By the time I saw this, the northbound TE had completed its run and wasn't showing up on that site. I have used the tracker in the past, though, when my kids have been taking the train to/from grad school, because the tracker usually had more detailed info about a train's progress than the Amtrak app on my phone (the only device I'd have with me at the station, waiting for my kids or my kids' trains).


If you click on the clock on the menu bar you can get historical data including current day’s trains that have arrived at their final destinations


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## joelkfla (Aug 26, 2022)

JoshP said:


> Not to mention that Silver Star 92 last night was over 8 hours late and is due into NYP at or about 3am. Silver Star has been coughing lot of late trains lately. To see that train status: Train 92 of 08/24/2022


That was somewhat of an anomaly.

Here's a distribution of 92's lateness of arrival in WAS since 7/1:


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## daybeers (Aug 26, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> I wonder if Amtrak might just incorporate more padding into the schedules so that people have a more realistic idea of the arrival times.


This had terrible consequences for the Crescent.


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## Michigan Mom (Aug 28, 2022)

daybeers said:


> This had terrible consequences for the Crescent.


What happened?


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## trimetbusfan (Aug 28, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> What happened?


The host railroad still decided to run the crecent late, even after working with Amtrak to create a new schedule that was supposed to cause less delay. There’s a whole thread on this subject somewhere.


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## tricia (Aug 28, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> The host railroad still decided to run the crecent late, even after working with Amtrak to create a new schedule that was supposed to cause less delay. There’s a whole thread on this subject somewhere.


Multiple threads. Here are two of the most recent:

Confused About the Crescent

Crescent schedule performance

The new schedule a) results in awful arrival times even if it's on time, and b) still hasn't improved OTP.


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## Trollopian (Aug 28, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Here's a distribution of 92's lateness of arrival in WAS since 7/1:
> View attachment 29411



Just a shout-out to the effectiveness of this graph at conveying info. Yeah, yeah, the x-axis could be better labeled (and would be if this were meant for wide publication!) but that's a quibble. The Amtrak stats for on-time performance should learn something from this. They just focus on whether 80% of trains arrive within 15 minutes of schedule. (See, e.g., the 2021 "report card" at Freight Delays and Your Amtrak Service.) Well, unless you're on a Northeast Corridor train and you have a multibillion dollar deal hinging on getting to NYC on time, in which case you are an idiot, 15 minutes is pretty darn good. For Amtrak.* Most ordinary travelers perceive a very, very big difference between "16 minutes late" and ">9 hours late."

* Not, of course, for most continental trains. If your train is scheduled to leave Berlin's Hauptbahnhof at 16:10 you don't dare get there at 16:11.


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## UserNameRequired (Aug 29, 2022)

Westbound CZ is stopped east of Galesburg 08-29-2022. An over temp alert on axle 4 trailing locomotive. They have to inspect it's temp then do a slow rolling inspection to see if it is spinning. People getting instructed do not get off the train or you will be left, and no blowing smoke out the vestibule windows haha. HEP is off.


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## UserNameRequired (Aug 29, 2022)

Rolling again, max 50mph to Galesburg.


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 31, 2022)

TE 22 now 7 hours late in Little Rock this morning and 21 in SD. Any information on this issue??


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## TinCan782 (Aug 31, 2022)

From Twitter Amtrak Alerts:
"Texas Eagle Train 22, which departed San Antonio (SAS) on 8/30, is stopped north of Little Rock (LRK) due to mechanical issues. Updates to follow.
12:48 AM · Aug 31, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio"

"Texas Eagle Train 21/421, which departed Chicago (CHI) on 8/30, is stopped south of Poplar Bluff (PBF) due to a disabled freight train. Updates to follow.
11:28 PM · Aug 30, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio"


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 31, 2022)

Looks like both Eagles have been defeathered this morning


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## TinCan782 (Aug 31, 2022)

UPDATE: Texas Eagle Train 22 which departed San Antonio (SAS) on 8/30 is back on the move and is currently operating approximately 7hrs 25mins late.
5:13 AM · Aug 31, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio

UPDATE: Texas Eagle Train 21/421, which departed Chicago (CHI) on 8/30, is still holding south of Poplar Bluff (PBF). Updates to follow
4:36 AM · Aug 31, 2022·Salesforce - Social Studio


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 31, 2022)

Wonder if the "News"Stations in the NE will cover the plight of the poor Riders that are Captive in their Rooms and Seats on the 4 Car Eaglettes for Hours?( No Sightseer Lounge and not sllowed to use the Diner/Cafe Car) 

And forced to exist on what little is left in the depleted Diner/Cafe after 4 days on the Chicago-San Antonio-Chicago turn, with the #22 Eaglete supposed to be heading up the St Louis to Chicago "Corridor" right now, instead of being lost in the Missouri/Arkansas Black Hole"????


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 31, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Wonder if the "News"Stations in the NE will cover the plight of the poor Riders that are Captive in their Rooms and Seats on the 4 Car Eaglettes for Hours?( No Sightseer Lounge and not sllowed to use the Diner/Cafe Car)
> 
> And forced to exist on what little is left in the depleted Diner/Cafe after 4 days on the Chicago-San Antonio-Chicago turn, with the #22 Eaglete supposed to be heading up the St Louis to Chicago "Corridor" right now, instead of being lost in the Missouri/Arkansas Black Hole"????



Nope, we’re too busy out here on the NEC watching our many, many trains zip back and forth and looking at the Acela FC menu.

Sorry Jim, couldn’t resist.

Seriously, it sounds awful. I just don’t understand the not allowed to use the diner/cafe car part—that is ridiculous.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 31, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Nope, we’re too busy out here on the NEC watching our many, many trains zip back and forth and looking at the Acela FC menu.
> 
> Sorry Jim, couldn’t resist.
> 
> Seriously, it sounds awful. I just don’t understand the not allowed to use the diner/cafe car part—that is ridiculous.


The reasons most Crews don't allow Passengers to use the Cafe/Diner as a Lounge ( even though that was the reason these Diners were Remodeled for such)are 
1) The Crews use them as their Lounge since there is no Transdorm on the Eaglette
2)One LSA has to try to Operate the Diner for Sleeping Car Passengers and in their spare time run the Cafe on the other end of the Car.

This really isn't the OBS fault, it's poor Management by Amtraks Suits and the lack of a Train Chief for the Skeleton Crews now trying to operate LD Trains!

So the Crews make up their own "Rules" so as to make it easier for them, not for the benefit of the Passengers!


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## MccfamschoolMom (Aug 31, 2022)

The southbound Texas Eagle was about an hour late zipping through Dwight, IL on Monday (4:15PM), but right on time (about 3:15PM) yesterday and today.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 31, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Wonder if the "News"Stations in the NE will cover the plight of the poor Riders that are Captive in their Rooms and Seats on the 4 Car Eaglettes for Hours?( No Sightseer Lounge and not sllowed to use the Diner/Cafe Car)
> 
> And forced to exist on what little is left in the depleted Diner/Cafe after 4 days on the Chicago-San Antonio-Chicago turn, with the #22 Eaglete supposed to be heading up the St Louis to Chicago "Corridor" right now, instead of being lost in the Missouri/Arkansas Black Hole"????


Is the air conditioning still working, at least?


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## MIrailfan (Aug 31, 2022)

It says #1 has a service disruption now too.


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## Widfara (Sep 1, 2022)

I see that the Eaglette is horrendously late in both directions today. Southbound Train 21 is 4 hours 25 minutes late, now heading toward Marshall. So much slop in the schedule that if there are no more delays (don't count on that!), 21 will still arrive 17 minutes early at San Antonio.
Northbound Train 22 is 6 hours 40 minutes late, now at Acadia, MO. Expected into Chicago at about 6:45 pm tonight.
Oh, yes. the asm.transitdocs thing now requires you to sign in to Twitter to get the alerts. Amtrak website does not.
I rarely trust even a 5 to 6 hour layover. My trips typically have a hotel stay between legs.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 1, 2022)

Widfara said:


> I see that the Eaglette is horrendously late in both directions today. Southbound Train 21 is 4 hours 25 minutes late, now heading toward Marshall. So much slop in the schedule that if there are no more delays (don't count on that!), 21 will still arrive 17 minutes early at San Antonio.
> Northbound Train 22 is 6 hours 40 minutes late, now at Acadia, MO. Expected into Chicago at about 6:45 pm tonight.
> Oh, yes. the asm.transitdocs thing now requires you to sign in to Twitter to get the alerts. Amtrak website does not.
> I rarely trust even a 5 to 6 hour layover. My trips typically have a hotel stay between legs.


You don’t need to sign into Twitter. Click on Log In (or whatever the button says) then X out of the log in screen


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## TheCrescent (Sep 1, 2022)

Have the delays (due to switching from electric to diesel locomotives) at Washington been resolved?

Last week, the train I was on sat in the station for over two hours. I hope that won’t happen again.

Thanks.


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## Widfara (Sep 2, 2022)

Widfara said:


> I see that the Eaglette is horrendously late in both directions today. Southbound Train 21 is 4 hours 25 minutes late, now heading toward Marshall. So much slop in the schedule that if there are no more delays (don't count on that!), 21 will still arrive 17 minutes early at San Antonio.
> Northbound Train 22 is 6 hours 40 minutes late, now at Acadia, MO. Expected into Chicago at about 6:45 pm tonight.
> Oh, yes. the asm.transitdocs thing now requires you to sign in to Twitter to get the alerts. Amtrak website does not.
> I rarely trust even a 5 to 6 hour layover. My trips typically have a hotel stay between legs.


The southbound 21 Eaglette is 4 hours 22 minutes late at Mineola today, and the northbound 22 is an hour and a half late at McGregor, with the worst yet to come. Seems like the line from Dallas to Little Rock is where the big mess is.
Thanks for the Twitter tip. I'll try it. I'm not on social media, escept this, and one for my church.


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## Widfara (Sep 3, 2022)

Today's champion late train is the Southwest Chief heading for Chicago, over 15 hours late, presently between La Junta and Lamar, Colorado. The Eagles are flying better today, although a bit late.


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## Railspike (Sep 3, 2022)

If I'm not mistaken, Amtrak #160 is the culprit. It needs to take a "time-out" (a good mechanical check). It went down on #1 last week in El Paso and caused a 5+ hour delay into LAX. Then turned and went out on #4 again???


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## Amtrak709 (Sep 3, 2022)

I wonder what the "mood" is aboard 4(1) just now: food, service issues, etc. I know if it were me just going for a railfan ride--as many and most of my rides are--I would probably be OK with that extra night in the sleeper (although arrival middle of the night at CHI might be unappealing). Most passengers are NOT me. Would be interesting to read specific passenger reports of the general status of some of these long late on time performances lately. My favorite trains 91/92 and 19/20 have also had their share of on time anomalies.


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 3, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> I wonder what the "mood" is aboard 4(1) just now: food, service issues, etc. I know if it were me just going for a railfan ride--as many and most of my rides are--I would probably be OK with that extra night in the sleeper (although arrival middle of the night at CHI might be unappealing). Most passengers are NOT me. Would be interesting to read specific passenger reports of the general status of some of these long late on time performances lately. My favorite trains 91/92 and 19/20 have also had their share of on time anomalies.


Years ago I was on a 12 hour late Zephyr into Emeryville. It was unfortnate because we missed the Rockies in daylight but saw the Great Salt Lake. Hey, I'm not against seeing the usually unseen countryside, even if it is unspectacular. The bad part was the Dinty Moore beef stew and arriving in Emeryville at 4 a.m. It is a shame they couldn't have allowed us to stay in our rooms for a couple more hours, but I realize they had to get the conist into the yard and clear the tracks and clock out the crew.


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## Amtrak709 (Sep 3, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> arriving in Emeryville at 4 a.m. It is a shame they couldn't have allowed us to stay in our rooms for a couple more hours, but I realize they had to get the conist into the yard and clear the tracks and clock out the crew.


Thanks, PaTrainFan, for the reply and comment and you make a good point in your final sentence. I obviously do not know at what time 4(1) will ultimately arrive in CHI tomorrow morning in the AM, but if it were 3AM or 4AM or 5AM, would it not be good customer service to allow occupancy--if desired to 6 or 7AM or whatever--you get my drift. If you are a sleeping car passenger from LAX-CHI you have probably paid $1000 for your ticket and a perk like longer occupancy to soften the blow of a very late arrival would be, I think, reasonably good customer service and customer relations for the inconsistency. I make this statement to beg the question: Do you think Amtrak operations would consider an offering of this nature?? I am not going to attempt to answer my own inquiry.


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 3, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Do you think Amtrak operations would consider an offering of this nature?? I am not going to attempt to answer my own inquiry.


Amtrak hasn't shown the inclination to do so and likely would not, largely due to equipment and crew issues. 

But when I was young and my family was on a very late original CZ (Burlington/Rio Grande/Western Pacific) we had a similar situation, arriving into Oakland in the wee morning hours and were permitted to stay on the train for a few extra hours. 

Such considerate service no longer exists, evidently.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 4, 2022)

Amtrak has a history of kicking you off the train at arrival. For a short time, when the implemented the current Sunset schedule, they said sleeper passengers could stay aboard until 6:30 am. That lasted only a short time and the crews reportedly did not respect it while it was in forcce, many booting sleeper passengers off at arrival regardless. Amtrak management appears to have bowed to this, and stopped offering the occupancy until 6:30 am.

I have arrived at Chicago between 2 am and 4 am more times than I can count. Every time we were kicked off the train upon arrival at CUS. Back in bad days of the Starlight always being 8-12 hours late, I was also booted off in LA at 2 or 3 am.

There is a long history here under Amtrak, dating back to at least the 1990s. It is pretty ingrained.

Contrast this with VIA. The Canadian is scheduled for an 8:00 am arrival at Vancouver. It usually arrives at Vancouver between 4 am and 5 am if they left Kamloops anywhere close to on time (there are now _huge_ pads at Edmonton and Kamloops). VIA allows occupancy until 8 am, moreover, they have a full breakfast service in the diner. It is a kind of a strange experience having breakfast while sitting at Pacific Central Station in Vancouver.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 4, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Thanks, PaTrainFan, for the reply and comment and you make a good point in your final sentence. I obviously do not know at what time 4(1) will ultimately arrive in CHI tomorrow morning in the AM, but if it were 3AM or 4AM or 5AM, would it not be good customer service to allow occupancy--if desired to 6 or 7AM or whatever--you get my drift. If you are a sleeping car passenger from LAX-CHI you have probably paid $1000 for your ticket and a perk like longer occupancy to soften the blow of a very late arrival would be, I think, reasonably good customer service and customer relations for the inconsistency. I make this statement to beg the question: Do you think Amtrak operations would consider an offering of this nature?? I am not going to attempt to answer my own inquiry.


Not with the current State of Amtraks Mismanagement !


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## OBS (Sep 4, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> Not with the current State of Amtraks Mismanagement !


Considering the equipment is going to turn for train 3 that afternoon, it is not going to happen.


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## Bonser (Sep 4, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Amtrak hasn't shown the inclination to do so and likely would not, largely due to equipment and crew issues.
> 
> But when I was young and my family was on a very late original CZ (Burlington/Rio Grande/Western Pacific) we had a similar situation, arriving into Oakland in the wee morning hours and were permitted to stay on the train for a few extra hours.
> 
> Such considerate service no longer exists, evidently.


As noted before, it's not really practical in Emeryville.


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## Asher (Sep 4, 2022)

Amtrak709 said:


> Thanks, PaTrainFan, for the reply and comment and you make a good point in your final sentence. I obviously do not know at what time 4(1) will ultimately arrive in CHI tomorrow morning in the AM, but if it were 3AM or 4AM or 5AM, would it not be good customer service to allow occupancy--if desired to 6 or 7AM or whatever--you get my drift. If you are a sleeping car passenger from LAX-CHI you have probably paid $1000 for your ticket and a perk like longer occupancy to soften the blow of a very late arrival would be, I think, reasonably good customer service and customer relations for the inconsistency. I make this statement to beg the question: Do you think Amtrak operations would consider an offering of this nature?? I am not going to attempt to answer my own inquiry.


Sorry to say, rude as it is getting off loaded in the dark of the night, it would just compound the problem shutting things down so passengers can sleep in. 
It’s unfortunate, for quite awhile when one books a trip on Amtrak, schedules have been fluctuating. The price of the tickets means nothing, you can’t buy time.


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## Rasputin (Sep 5, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Years ago I was on a 12 hour late Zephyr into Emeryville. It was unfortnate because we missed the Rockies in daylight but saw the Great Salt Lake. Hey, I'm not against seeing the usually unseen countryside, even if it is unspectacular. The bad part was the Dinty Moore beef stew and arriving in Emeryville at 4 a.m. It is a shame they couldn't have allowed us to stay in our rooms for a couple more hours, but I realize they had to get the conist into the yard and clear the tracks and clock out the crew.


Obviously, culinary tastes are different but I voluntarily consume Dinty Moore beef stew several times a year at home and I have had it on a late Zephyr so it was just like being home. I certainly don't prefer it over the entrees on the western trains but on my 2019 trip on the Lake Shore under contemporary dining, I would have jumped at the chance to have the beef stew over the then breakfast and lunch entrees. I am told that flex dining food has since improved.

Do you recall if there was any Amtrak employee on duty at Emeryville at 4 a.m. to assist passengers? I recall arriving on a late Eastbound Zephyr at Denver at 2 a.m. once and I didn't see anyone there to assist passengers. Same with several 2 a.m. late arrivals of the eastbound Lake Shore at Boston. It's every person for themselves. 

And I wonder if the coach cleaners were really waiting trackside at Oakland yard for your train at 4 a.m.


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## PaTrainFan (Sep 5, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Obviously, culinary tastes are different but I voluntarily consume Dinty Moore beef stew several times a year at home and I have had it on a late Zephyr so it was just like being home. I certainly don't prefer it over the entrees on the western trains but on my 2019 trip on the Lake Shore under contemporary dining, I would have jumped at the chance to have the beef stew over the then breakfast and lunch entrees. I am told that flex dining food has since improved.
> 
> Do you recall if there was any Amtrak employee on duty at Emeryville at 4 a.m. to assist passengers? I recall arriving on a late Eastbound Zephyr at Denver at 2 a.m. once and I didn't see anyone there to assist passengers. Same with several 2 a.m. late arrivals of the eastbound Lake Shore at Boston. It's every person for themselves.
> 
> And I wonder if the coach cleaners were really waiting trackside at Oakland yard for your train at 4 a.m.


I honestly do not remember if there was staff in the station itself, but we high tailed it to the Ambus to take us to San Francisco. Fortunately, at the time there was a stop within a block of my favored hotel. Unfortunately, that stop does no longer exists. I am guessing that Amtrak was eager to get the crew off the clock when it arrived, never mind the fact they had been through the same wringer as us. I know the train was gone before the bus even left the station. I get that at many stations there may be logistical issues in allowing passengers to stay onboard. Just lamenting that is the case.


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## trimetbusfan (Sep 8, 2022)

Looks like 5 (6) is making some amazing time. Just left Sacramento nearly an hour early. I think it’s been months since a zephyr has left Sacramento that early.


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## JP1822 (Sep 8, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Years ago I was on a 12 hour late Zephyr into Emeryville. It was unfortnate because we missed the Rockies in daylight but saw the Great Salt Lake. Hey, I'm not against seeing the usually unseen countryside, even if it is unspectacular. The bad part was the Dinty Moore beef stew and arriving in Emeryville at 4 a.m. It is a shame they couldn't have allowed us to stay in our rooms for a couple more hours, but I realize they had to get the conist into the yard and clear the tracks and clock out the crew.



It's largely known that if the westbound VIA Rail Canadian arrives into Vancouver, BC early (say 3AM, 4AM, 5AM, etc.) passengers are allowed to stay onboard and even have a sit-down breakfast in the Diner before disembarking. Course the onboard service assignments and even the T&E crew is vastly different if comparing Amtrak LD trains to VIA Rail LD trains.... Being on a 14+hour late eastbound Empire Builder earlier this year (by the time we pulled into Chicago), most sleeping car passengers (by Grand Forks, ND) bound for Chicago were hoping the train would either arrive by 11PM, or after 6AM. No one wanted to be dropped in at the original projected arrival of 3AM or 4AM, and hoped they would allow us to stay onboard till say 6 or 7AM if we did. Connections were missed and "what to do" and "what services would be provided at the hour of arrival" remained a mystery. Most were thankful we pulled in at 7AM, and thankfully red caps and baggage service met our train. We did get an abbreviated extra dinner onboard, but some snacks I had stuffed away also came in handy, including a bagel and granola bar to have for breakfast. Missed connections? Amtrak did their best to re-ticket us the day before for those that were continuing on east or south. I was shocked that this was done so proactively and conveniently by Fargo, ND.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 8, 2022)

JP1822 said:


> It's largely known that if the westbound VIA Rail Canadian arrives into Vancouver, BC early (say 3AM, 4AM, 5AM, etc.) passengers are allowed to stay onboard and even have a sit-down breakfast in the Diner before disembarking. Course the onboard service assignments and even the T&E crew is vastly different if comparing Amtrak LD trains to VIA Rail LD trains.... Being on a 14+hour late eastbound Empire Builder earlier this year (by the time we pulled into Chicago), most sleeping car passengers (by Grand Forks, ND) bound for Chicago were hoping the train would either arrive by 11PM, or after 6AM. No one wanted to be dropped in at the original projected arrival of 3AM or 4AM, and hoped they would allow us to stay onboard till say 6 or 7AM if we did. Connections were missed and "what to do" and "what services would be provided at the hour of arrival" remained a mystery. Most were thankful we pulled in at 7AM, and thankfully red caps and baggage service met our train. We did get an abbreviated extra dinner onboard, but some snacks I had stuffed away also came in handy, including a bagel and granola bar to have for breakfast. Missed connections? Amtrak did their best to re-ticket us the day before for those that were continuing on east or south. I was shocked that this was done so proactively and conveniently by Fargo, ND.


This is because Amtrak Chicago has plenty of Practice with Late Trains and Missed Connections, almost a Daily Occurence !


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## zephyr17 (Sep 8, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> This is because Amtrak Chicago has plenty of Practice with Late Trains and Missed Connections, almost a Daily Occurence !


Yeah, Chicago Passenger Services has it down, with much practice. Have been the involuntary beneficiary of their services more times than I can count.

Though, unfortunately, all those experiences involved arrivals between 2 am and 4 am. And, no, you don't stay on the train. You get hustled off as fast as the train crew can move you.


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## n3rdg1rl (Sep 9, 2022)

Maybe I've missed something somewhere. Amtrak by law has the right of way over freight regardless of who owns the track. Correct? Then why isn't there an uproar from Amtrak execs about constantly being hours and hours late due to freight? How is Amtrak benefiting by running late consistantly due to freight traffic? I can only imagine the reason there isn't a huge ruckus somewhere is because they somehow make money from the situation. I know we all hate management right now and can blame the lack of rolling stock and food issues on them, but usually the worst managers are the ones who make the loudest noise trying to point fingers at someone else, so the blame is off them. This group of suits say nothing at all and that's very strange to me.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 9, 2022)

n3rdg1rl said:


> Maybe I've missed something somewhere. Amtrak by law has the right of way over freight regardless of who owns the track. Correct? Then why isn't there an uproar from Amtrak execs about constantly being hours and hours late due to freight? How is Amtrak benefiting by running late consistantly due to freight traffic? I can only imagine the reason there isn't a huge ruckus somewhere is because they somehow make money from the situation. I know we all hate management right now and can blame the lack of rolling stock and food issues on them, but usually the worst managers are the ones who make the loudest noise trying to point fingers at someone else, so the blame is off them. This group of suits say nothing at all and that's very strange to me.


The statute (Rail Passenger Act of 1970) demands priority for Amtrak trains on any railroad that agreed to join Amtrak in order to relieve itself of its common carrier requirement to provide passenger service. However, that Act also included no effective mechanism for enforcing that rule. The only option was for Amtrak to to request the DoJ to bring suit. That happened, Amtrak requesting, and DoJ agreeing and actually bringing suit, once. Yes, one time.

Amtrak could not even ask the regulator (first the ICC, then the STB) directly for relief. DoJ suit or nothing.

It was a rule with no practical way to enforce it or sanctions stemming from violating it. So the railroads violated it wholesale with no repercussion.

In theory that changed with the passage of the PRIIA Act of 2008, which stated Amtrak could set delay metrics that could be enforced by the STB and FRA. The railroads fought it and initially won. The Supreme Court ruled that Amtrak couldn't set the metrics itself. Congress amended the law (forget the year it did so) so that the STB set the metrics. The railroads fought that up to the Supreme Court as well, but lost that one. Finally, after 12 years of legislation and litigation, the STB was able to issue the final Passenger Delay Metrics rule in December 2020.

Implementation of the rule required the railroads and Amtrak negotiate schedules in light of the published metrics before enforcement action could be taken. This is why several schedules have changed over the past couple years, notably the Crescent, but also including the SW Chief, the Coast Starlight and the Empire Builder to my knowledge.

With the rules and measurements in place there have only been 2 or 3 quarters when the official, enforceable measurements have now been in the record. Since the STB cannot take consider enforcement action unless there have been two consecutive quarters of failing the the standards on a given route, it is only been in the last couple months that complaints to the STB for enforcement action could even be filed. Amtrak, or even individual passengers can bring complaints to the STB to request enforcement action.

So, through the entire 51 year history of Amtrak, the rule has only gained any potential teeth in last few months.

It remains to be seen if Amtrak will bring complaints to the STB for enforcement, now that it can. It is a new power. One indicator, though, may be the the new contract Amtrak has proposed to NS. It calls for Amtrak to be able to take over _dispatching_ for any line with passenger on time performance falling below 80% per the metrics for four consecutive quarters. NS filed a 400 page, semi-hysterical response to that.

In short, it is easy to say Amtrak had priority by law. Yes it had. It was also virtually impossible to enforce until very, very recently.

Amtrak does not gain by lateness, but has never had much control over it. It imposes great costs on Amtrak in staff overtime, passenger accommodation expenses as well as a big passenger experience black eye. It remains to be seen how well they leverage the new ability to bring complaints before the STB (although the NS contract proposal indicates to me at least some appetite to play some hardball). In the meantime, Amtrak management would be well served to focus on things that have always been wholly within its control and have usually been ignored, like OBS quality and consistency.


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## n3rdg1rl (Sep 9, 2022)

Thank you so much for that reply. I had no idea that it wasn't enforceable before!


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## zephyr17 (Sep 9, 2022)

n3rdg1rl said:


> Thank you so much for that reply. I had no idea that it wasn't enforceable before!


They threatened a DoJ suit a couple of other times, like when UP got really out of hand during George W. Bush's administration. Many are of the opinion that UP may have thought they might be able to drive Amtrak out of business by egregiously bad train handling combined with a friendly (to UP) administration. That threat did have some effect, especially after Obama came in, and UP did clean up their act a bit. But both railroad and Amtrak execs knew it was an extreme threat and hard to do, so Amtrak had to not be bluffing when it brought that out. It was also an action that very much angered the host railroads and they had to maintain day to day relations with them in order to operate, so unless things got very, very bad, Amtrak wound up taking a go along to get along stance. A lawsuit or threat of lawsuit grinds along for years. The STB can take pretty expeditious actions in areas where they are legislatively authorized, which they are now for passenger delay, and the railroads are somewhat afraid of the STB generally.


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## joelkfla (Sep 9, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The statute (Rail Passenger Act of 1970) demands priority for Amtrak trains on any railroad that agreed to join Amtrak in order to relieve itself of its common carrier requirement to provide passenger service. However, that Act also included no effective mechanism for enforcing that rule. The only option was for Amtrak to to request the DoJ to bring suit. That happened, Amtrak requesting, and DoJ agreeing and actually bringing suit, once. Yes, one time.
> 
> Amtrak could not even ask the regulator (first the ICC, then the STB) directly for relief. DoJ suit or nothing.
> 
> ...


Excellent summary!

I usually skim over overly long posts, but this was well worth the reading.


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## Bonser (Sep 9, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The statute (Rail Passenger Act of 1970) demands priority for Amtrak trains on any railroad that agreed to join Amtrak in order to relieve itself of its common carrier requirement to provide passenger service. However, that Act also included no effective mechanism for enforcing that rule. The only option was for Amtrak to to request the DoJ to bring suit. That happened, Amtrak requesting, and DoJ agreeing and actually bringing suit, once. Yes, one time.
> 
> Amtrak could not even ask the regulator (first the ICC, then the STB) directly for relief. DoJ suit or nothing.
> 
> ...


This is the best summation of Amtrak train delays I've ever read. Clear, concise and to the point. Thank you


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## Railspike (Sep 9, 2022)

I see where #2 was canceled yesterday from Palm Springs to San Antonio due to a derailment ahead. With #2 only 100+ miles from LAX and shortly after midnight the train is canceled. What course of action would Amtrak take with the passengers? Turn the train and return to LAX? Bus passengers back to LAX? Even though Amtrak wasn't at fault, Amtrak Trip Roulette continues.


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## Amtrak709 (Sep 9, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The statute (Rail Passenger Act of 1970) demands priority for Amtrak trains on any railroad that agreed to join Amtrak in order to relieve itself of its common carrier requirement to provide passenger service. However, that Act also included no effective mechanism for enforcing that rule. The only option was for Amtrak to to request the DoJ to bring suit. That happened, Amtrak requesting, and DoJ agreeing and actually bringing suit, once. Yes, one time.
> 
> Amtrak could not even ask the regulator (first the ICC, then the STB) directly for relief. DoJ suit or nothing.
> 
> ...


I concur that this narrative by zephyr17 is the best summary explanation I have read. Thank You!


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## west point (Sep 10, 2022)

Knowing the whole history of Amtrak OTP enforcement certainly helps.

BTW I have noticed that most mechanical departures from CHI for the last couple weeks have been on time. If any mechanical delays then it usually is 48 or 50. Now there have been a few mechanical delays not long after leaving CHI. I am not counting the equipment cancellations that must mean major mechanical problems that makes CHI not look good.


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## Eric in East County (Oct 5, 2022)

Although we had to postpone our September-October trip to Ohio due to Amtrak not being able to honor our bedroom reservations, we none-the-less tracked the on-time performances of the trains we had reservations for, just to see how we would have made out. Here are the results:

September 20th

Pacific Surfliner 777 departed San Diego OT at 12:01 p.m. and arrived in Los Angeles at 2:50 p.m., 7 minutes early.

Southwest Chief No. 4 departed Los Angeles at 5:57 p.m., two minutes late.

September 22nd

Southwest Chief No. 4 arrived in Chicago at 3:31 p.m., 41 minutes late.

Capitol Limited No. 30 departed Chicago at OT at 6:40 p.m. and arrived in Toledo at 11:37 p.m., 2 minutes early.

October 3rd

Capitol Limited No. 29 departed from Toledo at 5:25 a.m. (3 minutes late) and arrived in Chicago at 8:39 a.m., 5 minutes early.

Southwest Chief No. 3 departed Chicago OT at 2:50 p.m.

October 5th

Southwest Chief arrived at Los Angeles Union Station at 7:44 a.m., 16 minutes early.

Pacific Surfliner 770 departed OT at 10:10 a.m. and arrived in Irvine at 11:10 a.m., 1 minute early.

Due to emergency track work, southbound passengers had to transfer to an Amtrak bus at Irvine which departed at 11:25 a.m. and arrived at Oceanside at 12:21 p.m., 4 minutes early.

In Oceanside southbound passengers transferred to Pacific Surfliner train 1770, which departed at 12:35 p.m., 1 minute late. It arrived at the San Diego Old Town Transportation Center (our final destination) at 1:18 p.m., 2 minutes early.

All in all, the On Time performances of the trains we were supposed to have been on were better than what we expected them to be. If the trains we’ll be on when we make this trip in 2023 perform as well, we’ll be more than satisfied.


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## pennyk (Oct 8, 2022)

Apparently there was a major delay on Wolverine 351 to Chicago.









Passengers flee train during 19-hour ride from Michigan to Chicago


Passengers stuck on an Amtrak train say there was no electricity, heat, bathrooms or food during a roughly 19-hour journey from Pontiac to Chicago.




www.mlive.com








> Passengers stuck on an Amtrak train say there was no electricity, heat, bathrooms or food during a roughly 19-hour journey from Pontiac to Chicago.
> 
> Wolverine Train 351 first left Michigan around 6 a.m. Friday for the scheduled 5½ hour trek to Chicago. It didn’t arrive until after midnight Central Standard Time.


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## Rasputin (Oct 8, 2022)

First time I have heard a locomotive failure described as a circumstance beyond Amtrak's control.

These passengers should be presented with vouchers good for no less than round trips on the Wolverine.


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## NSC1109 (Oct 8, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> First time I have heard a locomotive failure described as a circumstance beyond Amtrak's control.
> 
> These passengers should be presented with vouchers good for no less than round trips on the Wolverine.



pretty sure they were talking about the medical emergency, NS dispatching incompetency, and the crew timing out as being “out of their control”…


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## Eric in East County (Oct 8, 2022)

pennyk said:


> Apparently there was a major delay on Wolverine 351 to Chicago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This certainly was a rail journey from Hell and one that could happen to almost anyone who travels on an Amtrak train.

In view of the fact that there was no power and no working sanitary facilities, I’m surprised that Amtrak didn’t rush in a fleet of buses to get the passengers off the train ASAP. (This was something that should have been within their control.)

It would appear that those people with legit anxiety issues have grounds for bringing legal action against Amtrak for being placed in this situation. (Perhaps some of them already have.)

We recently learned of a product called TravelJohn, a resealable disposable urinal bag that can be used by men, women, and children. If Amtrak had had a supply of these onboard to pass out to passengers, that might have helped the bathroom situation somewhat. (We plan to pack a few of these along with us on future trips.)


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## moosejunky99 (Oct 8, 2022)

Hello,

Train derailment today.









Train derails on Columbus Ave. overpass in Sandusky


As of Saturday Oct. 15 pedestrian and vehicular traffic under the overpass remains closed while engineers assess the damage and make repairs.




www.wtol.com






Looks like all the trains on that route.. 30/29/48/448/49/449 are all going on the detoured route.




*thanks mods for moving* i probably should have figured it should go here


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## Rasputin (Oct 8, 2022)

NSC1109 said:


> pretty sure they were talking about the medical emergency, NS dispatching incompetency, and the crew timing out as being “out of their control”…


If the comments in the article are at all accurate, it appears that much of the delay (perhaps up to 9 hours) was caused by locomotive problems.


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## Steve4031 (Oct 8, 2022)

I wonder what the detour will be on 29 and 49.


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## NSC1109 (Oct 9, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> If the comments in the article are at all accurate, it appears that much of the delay (perhaps up to 9 hours) was caused by locomotive problems.


believe it or not, locomotives having issues isn’t always in the control of the railroad. If you have an unexpected breakdown of your car despite taking it in regularly to get service, is that your fault? No, it’s just unfortunate. Not a perfect comparison but it’s the same general idea. You can do all the preventative maintenance you want (and you should be, don’t get me wrong), but some things are still going to go wrong, especially with computers being in everything now. 

On Reddit it was mentioned by a passenger on that train that it kept dumping every time they tried to move. From my experiences with BNSF, that sounds like a computer error forcing an emergency application. The conductor (if they were any good at their job), would’ve checked the angle cocks, brake pipe seating, emergency application handles in the cars, and the automatic handle in the locomotive being towed to be sure it was in “Handle Off”. 

Amtrak needs to get David Gunn back, and fast, to get a handle on these issues, but you aren’t gonna prevent every single one. Glitches happen. What they need to do is start putting locomotives on both ends of the train again. The leader dying leaves the 2nd one available for HEP and honestly it should be able to limp the train to where it needs to be. That’s how you prevent these incidents from become 19 hour dramas that end up on the local news.


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## Rasputin (Oct 9, 2022)

These unfortunate incidents seem to happen periodically on Amtrak (some might say regularly) but I get the impression from many articles that Amtrak seems to react as if each such incident is the first time such an incident has ever happened so it does not seem to have a reaction that inspires confidence. 

Something is seriously wrong.


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## NSC1109 (Oct 9, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> These unfortunate incidents seem to happen periodically on Amtrak (some might say regularly) but I get the impression from many articles that Amtrak seems to react as if each such incident is the first time such an incident has ever happened so it does not seem to have a reaction that inspires confidence.
> 
> Something is seriously wrong.


I don’t disagree. These issues seem to be happening more frequently ever since Gardner took over. I can’t say for sure it is because of him or his policies (correlation/causation etc) but Amtrak’s rep is being seriously damaged by these issues. 

If rumors are to be believed, the Chicago Maintenance Facility is little more than a joke. There is step number 1. Get your maintenance facilities in order with a solid equipment maintenance plan with spare parts and sufficient numbers of carmen/electricians/machinists/laborers etc.


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## Manny T (Oct 9, 2022)

Don't understand why Amtrak isn't on scene ASAP whenever this happens with personnel, water, food, blankets, a method of evacuation, transportation, portable sanitation, whatever it takes to make passenger safety, health and well-being its first priority. Why aren't there local contacts at every interval along the routes to call upon in case of emergencies of this nature? Seems like a logical thing to do. They would respond when needed. Not speaking of fire departments and hospital ambulances, but more of care-givers who could ameliorate a 9 hour delay without heat, electricity, or working bathrooms.


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## Mike G (Oct 10, 2022)

sunset Limited #1 8 hours49 minutes late to Tucson

UP 6179 AC4400CW was leading and not refueled.

Looks like #51 had no exhaust discharging and was not refueled.

#151 was refueled.

Numerous flats of Krispy Kreme delivered to the Dining Car.


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## Willbridge (Oct 11, 2022)

NSC1109 said:


> Amtrak needs to get David Gunn back, and fast, to get a handle on these issues, but you aren’t gonna prevent every single one. Glitches happen. What they need to do is start putting locomotives on both ends of the train again. The leader dying leaves the 2nd one available for HEP and honestly it should be able to limp the train to where it needs to be. That’s how you prevent these incidents from become 19 hour dramas that end up on the local news.


It isn't just the local news. Before I signed on here, I read two different versions from national websites, and I skipped the _Washington Examiner_'s gloating coverage.


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## GDRRiley (Oct 11, 2022)

NSC1109 said:


> Amtrak needs to get David Gunn back, and fast, to get a handle on these issues, but you aren’t gonna prevent every single one. Glitches happen. What they need to do is start putting locomotives on both ends of the train again. The leader dying leaves the 2nd one available for HEP and honestly it should be able to limp the train to where it needs to be. That’s how you prevent these incidents from become 19 hour dramas that end up on the local news.


There aren't any amtrak CEOs in the last 30 years I'd want back. We just need to find someone from Europe or Asia who actually knows how to run a railroad.
there aren't enough working P42 or overall SC-44 to do that.
1/2 locos running on a short local train really isn't a big deal.
The midwest chargers have had many more issues than the 32 on the west coast.


Manny T said:


> Don't understand why Amtrak isn't on scene ASAP whenever this happens with personnel, water, food, blankets, a method of evacuation, transportation, portable sanitation, whatever it takes to make passenger safety, health and well-being its first priority. Why aren't there local contacts at every interval along the routes to call upon in case of emergencies of this nature?


even transit orgs who run buses often struggle to get buses and support to a heavily delayed train.


Manny T said:


> Seems like a logical thing to do


its expensive to have a bunch of supplies stored and a good plan pre made for every area.

*From trains: *amtrak-wolverine-to-chicago-delayed-more-than-13-hours


> The train’s Siemens Charger SC44 locomotive became disabled 19 miles west of Ann Arbor, Mich. The operating crew was unable to restart it or put it on standby to provide head-end power. Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliar
> 
> A decision was made to have the following westbound Wolverine, No. 353, couple to No. 351 and bring both trains to Chicago, but crews encountered difficulties in combining the two trains. Although 353 left Ann Arbor at 10:32 a.m., three hours behind 351, the combined trains didn’t arrive at Jackson, Mich., 38 miles away, until 3:30 p.m.
> 
> ...


This whole thing sounds like a chain of bad events.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Oct 11, 2022)

Refunds not enough after nightmare Amtrak train ride to Chicago, passengers say


Passengers are looking for answers from Amtrak after getting stuck on a 19-hour train ride from Michigan to Chicago without heat, electricity or working toilets.




www.mlive.com


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## Manny T (Oct 11, 2022)

Here's the coverage from local Chicago station WABC news last night on the 19 hour train ride from Michigan:

Passengers stuck on Amtrak from Detroit to Chicago for 19 hours with no electricity, water, food



GDRRiley said:


> its expensive to have a bunch of supplies stored and a good plan pre made for every area.


How expensive to Amtrak is that local WABC coverage of the fiasco, seen by millions?


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## joelkfla (Oct 11, 2022)

GDRRiley said:


> even transit orgs who run buses often struggle to get buses and support to a heavily delayed train.
> its expensive to have a bunch of supplies stored and a good plan pre made for every area.


No excuse. Some level of local management needs to be empowered to go outside normal procedures and channels to mitigate an emergency. Move heaven and earth.


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## Gary Behling (Oct 11, 2022)

I actually like it when the train is late because I get to spend extra time in my bedroom watching movies on my computer in an altered state of mind. But this route thru Tucson (where I live) is a different deal. Riding the Train from Tucson to Chicago --- or the exact reverse is a big big issue. I had to get off the train at San Antonio once and ride a bus, to Fort Worth or something and THEN Amtrak coach the rest of the way to Chicago. I pay big money for a deluxe bedroom and I am not riding coach or a bus. Instead of taking their bus, I checked in to a nearby hotel, called Amtrak and got a Deluxe bedroom to Chicago 3 days later. 

NOW I am super "gun shy" over riding this train. It used to be so much fun. On the trip from Chicago to Tucson, I'd get off my car in San Antonio, get a cab and go to a really nice Mexican restaurant for a big plate of take-out Enchiladas, rice and beans plus 8 flour tortillas. Then the cab driver and I would go get a six pack of Mexican beer and back to the train station where I would go back to my Deluxe Bedroom sitting on the siding, get drunk and eat my excellent food. But not anymore. Now I go to Los Angeles and take the Southwest Chief to Chicago. I sure hope Amtrak can straighten this Texas Eagle business out.


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## Michigan Mom (Oct 11, 2022)

Saddened by the stories about the Wolverine delay, for the passengers and employees. This type of scenario should quite frankly not happen. People are understanding about things like hurricanes, floods, snowstorms... all the engine issues causing delays and then a chain of events like this one is not going to be met with understanding by passengers and it's really unfair to put employees in the situation of having to cope with it. The Wolverine service is still reduced due to equipment and staffing issues. If they can't operate the route on a nice day with only 2 departures there is a management issue and that's what they are paid big bucks to solve. 
I'd have been among those who jumped out.


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## Mike G (Oct 14, 2022)

Sunset Limited #1 Tucson station stop 6 hours 45 late cart for Dining Car.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 14, 2022)

Mike G said:


> Sunset Limited #1 Tucson station stop 6 hours 45 late cart for Dining Car.
> 
> View attachment 29901


This is becoming a Regular occurrence for the Amtrak Sunset Ltd ( Thrice Weekly) and Texas Eaglette Routes as UP Freights get Longer,Slower and Dispatchers give them Priority over Passenger Trains!


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## Mike G (Oct 25, 2022)

Southwest Chief #3 Ft. Madison station stop, 51 minutes late after boarding the PAX it sat at the platform for 25 minutes then 10 - 12 large pizzas deleived to the Dining Car.


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## Joe from PA (Oct 26, 2022)

#91 Silver Star more late than normal, arriving Miami yesterday 3+ hours late. 1 hour sitting in Richman, VA, and 2 hours somewhere between Camden and Columbia, SC.


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## jis (Oct 26, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> #91 Silver Star more late than normal, arriving Miami yesterday 3+ hours late. 1 hour sitting in Richman, VA, and 2 hours somewhere between Camden and Columbia, SC.


CSX switch failure between Camden and Columbia.


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## west point (Oct 27, 2022)

A switch failure may mean something wrong with mechanism that conductor could not over ride?


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## RebelRider (Oct 27, 2022)

west point said:


> A switch failure may mean something wrong with mechanism that conductor could not over ride?



That was exactly the problem. The switch failed and the crew attempted to handle the switch manually. It still would not lock into position properly. They had to wait for a signal maintainer to arrive and literally fix the switch. Been there, done that.


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## west point (Oct 27, 2022)

Thisposter has complained for over a year about the many delays of both direction Crescents south of ATL. However the last couple months time keeping has been excellent except fot TCL. Both directions into TCL schedule is too short most times but next station has been plenty of slop. Have seen #20 make up an hour from TCL to BHM.


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## jis (Oct 28, 2022)

The continuing saga of Wolverine 351









Amtrak making changes after no heat, power on Michigan-Chicago train fiasco


Amtrak is revising its policies after customers were stuck on a heavily delayed train from Michigan to Chicago without heat, electricity or working toilets earlier this month.




www.mlive.com





What is astounding is the comment about consolidating control center in Delaware. I was under the possibly mistaken impression that CNOC was the national control center. Perhaps it is the case that it only controls the operation of LD trains and the NEC, and now the Midwest Regionals will be brought under its control? Where exactly were they controlled from until now? Chicago? That in itself might explain a lot  But still, who would have thunk that the Amtrak controlled Michigan Corridor is not controlled out of CNOC? The other possibility is that they are simply trying to baffle us with BS.

If they actually terminate trains with non working HEP and accommodate people in safe habitable places if they cannot find alternate transportation immediately that would be a huge improvement. We keep reading about how children should not be left in cars and description of how temperatures inside rise, and yet the same dictum does not appear to apply to Amtrak somehow.

The bottom line is, as I have said before, there is a dire need for a passengers' Bill of Rights for rail in the US.


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## Michigan Mom (Oct 29, 2022)

Will be interesting to see what results. It does sound like concrete changes of some sort are being put forth. And for that situation to have even happened, it needed to be.
Although, I am personally not a big fan of passenger "bill of rights" as it can set up situations that wind up being worse for passengers, which I have seen from an airline perspective many years ago. It's a bit hard to explain here but I'm also not in favor of creating rules that essentially pit employees and customers against one another. Common sense needs to start from the top, much easier said than done of course. I am completely ignorant of the control center logistics and what that means.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 29, 2022)

jis said:


> What is astounding is the comment about consolidating control center in Delaware. I was under the possibly mistaken impression that CNOC was the national control center. Perhaps it is the case that it only controls the operation of LD trains and the NEC, and now the Midwest Regionals will be brought under its control? Where exactly were they controlled from until now? Chicago? That in itself might explain a lot  But still, who would have thunk that the Amtrak controlled Michigan Corridor is not controlled out of CNOC? The other possibility is that they are simply trying to baffle us with BS.











OIG to Amtrak: Update (and Verify) Unified Operations Center Business Case - Railway Age


Amtrak’s plans to save costs and consolidate personnel/functions in a Delaware building it purchased for $41.1 million in May 2020 “have not materialized because it didn’t effectively verify the feasibility of its plan before it made the purchase,” according to a new report from the Amtrak...




www.railwayage.com


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## City of Miami (Nov 5, 2022)

Yesterday i was on NER171 from NYP to CVS. There was a "trespasser strike" near New London CN and the train was stopped, ultimately 3 hours. Amtrak was very good sending alerts to me all along. I gave my self a lot of anxiety that the train would be cancelled leaving me stranded. Amtrak did not do that. The train arrived eventually and as we all know got later and later. I arrived home after midnight, 4+ hrs late. But they got me home! AND I just got an automated phone call offering sincere apologies and informing me I will be receiving a voucher of undisclosed amount in the next few days! I don't care how much. I'm just very impressed. The ticket was very reasonable to begin with, $31!


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## daybeers (Nov 5, 2022)

I was in SE CT during that and it was a mess at Old Saybrook. Everyone was confused with little information from the station agent, as usual.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 5, 2022)

What's up with 8(3)? Was apparently running all right until it hit the Cascades, now it is catastrophically delayed


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 5, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> What's up with 8(3)? Was apparently running all right until it hit the Cascades, now it is catastrophically delayed


Do you mean 7(3)?

Per Amtrak twitter alerts - downed trees. Passengers have been moved to alternate transportation to Seattle.
8(5) will be delayed due to late arriving equipment.


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## zephyr17 (Nov 5, 2022)

Doh! Yeah.

Thanks.


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## moosejunky99 (Nov 6, 2022)

8(4) going into Chicago and going to be over 16hrs late.


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## F900ElCapitan (Nov 7, 2022)

7 and 8 are officially cancelled today as both direction trains are running significantly late inbound and yesterdays 8 arrival into CHI is still on the rails.
On another note, I still find it horrible management that Chicago is unable to put together another trainset for todays 7 and annul 7(5) in Spokane to help out today’s 8 from Seattle (with a dreaded bustitution of course).


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## west point (Nov 7, 2022)

Maybe the solution of very late EB #7 is to stub it out of Spokane. In place stub a short train out of SEA (1008 ?) run it to Spokane and turn it back to SEA as a train 1007. Use a p-42 and a BNSF AC loco to mitigate and snow ingestion. Give 28 passengers choice of bus to SPK or earlier train to SEA. #27 passengers the opposite. These alternatives can mostly be planned much earlier for #7 delays are well known in advance..


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## moosejunky99 (Nov 8, 2022)

seems like that route gets the most delays or biggest delays as of late and most expensive on the amtrak site.


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## NSC1109 (Nov 8, 2022)

A7-10 and A7-11 will not be stopping at any stations between Minot and Fargo, account operating changes due to winter weather. This was mandated by BNSF, not Amtrak.


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## Barb Stout (Nov 9, 2022)

NSC1109 said:


> A7-10 and A7-11 will not be stopping at any stations between Minot and Fargo, account operating changes due to winter weather. This was mandated by BNSF, not Amtrak.


What does A7-10 and A7-11 mean? 

I hadn't heard about particularly bad weather up there (I sometimes follow it because I have family up there) and so I googled it and it just looks like typical winter weather that they get up there every 2 weeks or so. What's going on?


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## jis (Nov 9, 2022)

I think the A stands for Amtrak and 7-10 and 7-11 are often written as 7(10) and 7(11), i.e. train 7 departure of the 10th and 11th from the origin.


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## NSC1109 (Nov 10, 2022)

Barb Stout said:


> What does A7-10 and A7-11 mean?
> 
> I hadn't heard about particularly bad weather up there (I sometimes follow it because I have family up there) and so I googled it and it just looks like typical winter weather that they get up there every 2 weeks or so. What's going on?



Considering the entire state of North Dakota is under a blizzard warning, your claim of typical winter weather appears to be mistaken and BNSF’s forecast won out.


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## Rover (Nov 11, 2022)




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## Bob Dylan (Nov 11, 2022)

Rover said:


>



This is becoming a 3 times a week happening as UP clogs up their Tracks with Miles Long Freights!


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Nov 12, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> This is becoming a 3 times a week happening as UP clogs up their Tracks with Miles Long Freights!


"Precision Scheduled Railroading" (PSR) strikes again! Maybe the initials really stand for "Profits to Stockholders Repeatedly"


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## IanDBeacon (Nov 13, 2022)




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## TWA904 (Nov 18, 2022)

Does anyone know what happened to make the Chief from 11/16 more than 9 hours late? Something happened at Fullerton, the very 1st stop to make it over 4 hours late.


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## trainman74 (Nov 18, 2022)

TWA904 said:


> Does anyone know what happened to make the Chief from 11/16 more than 9 hours late? Something happened at Fullerton, the very 1st stop to make it over 4 hours late.



Here's a tweet from Amtrak regarding that train - I would guess they were trying to fix a problematic locomotive at Fullerton, but then they ended up going back to L.A. to swap it out.


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## Mike G (Nov 19, 2022)

What’s going on with SWC #3 tonight ? Showing “ Service.Disruption “


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## JayPea (Nov 19, 2022)

According to Amtrak Twitter alerts, mechanical problems.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 19, 2022)

Mike G said:


> What’s going on with SWC #3 tonight ? Showing “ Service.Disruption “View attachment 30469


Did you check Amtrak’s alerts either on their site or on Twitter?


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## Mike G (Nov 19, 2022)

Nothing


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 19, 2022)

Mike G said:


> Nothing


Do you mean you didn’t find an alert for 3(19)? JayPea saw one.


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## Michigan Mom (Nov 20, 2022)

There seemed to be more Wolverine issues a couple/few days ago, this time a trespasser incident. From the Twitter alert page, they arranged for bus transportation although it took hours. Then apparently if that last train doesn't get in to Chicago they have to cancel the morning eastbound.


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## DCAKen (Nov 21, 2022)

I noticed that Tweets this weekend from CHI started used the wording "the late release of equipment from the train yard". Are they calling attention to something?


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 21, 2022)

DCAKen said:


> I noticed that Tweets this weekend from CHI started used the wording "the late release of equipment from the train yard". Are they calling attention to something?



If 29 was late arriving it could cause a late departure of 30 (assuming it's a same day turnaround which I would think 29 to 30 would be).


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## jis (Nov 21, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> If 29 was late arriving it could cause a late departure of 30 (assuming it's a same day turnaround which I would think 29 to 30 would be).


Yes. It is a same day turn around in Chicago for both 29/30 and 49/48.


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## DCAKen (Nov 23, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> If 29 was late arriving it could cause a late departure of 30 (assuming it's a same day turnaround which I would think 29 to 30 would be).


29 didn't arrive particularly late (less than an hour).

Usually the tweets will say "delayed due to the late arrival of inbound equipment". There were several tweets with the "late release" wording this past weekend for several trains from CHI, but now they've all disappeared. I was wondering if this was a poke at the yard workers.


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## Mike G (Nov 25, 2022)

SWC #4 at Ft. Madison 6 has 20 late


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## Rover (Dec 1, 2022)

Snow in the Sierras today. CZ should be pulling into Truckee soon.


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## 5280 Guy (Dec 7, 2022)

I did the Denver-Glenwood Springs roomette ride the other day. In the morning I checked and the app said the 12:10 PM train was delayed by an hour and 45 minutes. (That's "on time" by Amtrak standards, right)? I could live with this, but I knew that the delay would only increase. As I checked throughout the morning - An hour and 50 minutes, 2 hours, 2 and a half, etc. Finally it rolled in at 3:11. So much for lunch. I never see this mentioned. I paid for that lunch but never received it. I am sending them a copy of a restaurant receipt and I will file a dispute with Visa if they don't pay it.

The crew was great, and conductor Brad always in entertaining. I don't mind spending $600 or so, but only the chilli baked potato works for me on the menu. And now there is only one complimentary drink at dinner - none at lunch. I pay a first class price but receive service that isn't close to that.

This is just my opinion, but the chronic delays (usually not Amtrak's fault, I hear) and the real lack of onboard value isn't worth it to me. I'll be driving to Glenwood from now on.

I do plan on taking the C.Z. to Chicago again this summer, though.


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## trimetbusfan (Dec 7, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> I did the Denver-Glenwood Springs roomette ride the other day. In the morning I checked and the app said the 12:10 PM train was delayed by an hour and 45 minutes. (That's "on time" by Amtrak standards, right)? I could live with this, but I knew that the delay would only increase. As I checked throughout the morning - An hour and 50 minutes, 2 hours, 2 and a half, etc. Finally it rolled in at 3:11. So much for lunch. I never see this mentioned. I paid for that lunch but never received it. I am sending them a copy of a restaurant receipt and I will file a dispute with Visa if they don't pay it.
> 
> The crew was great, and conductor Brad always in entertaining. I don't mind spending $600 or so, but only the chilli baked potato works for me on the menu. And now there is only one complimentary drink at dinner - none at lunch. I pay a first class price but receive service that isn't close to that.
> 
> ...


Customer relations might be able to compensate you for that.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 7, 2022)

Anyone else on the Vermonter NB right now or know what happened up ahead? We are on a hold just below Brattleboro. They announced a collision at a crossroads, two vehicles. Hope everyone is all right! Don’t know whether it was train, trains, automobile, automobiles.

We are on Vermonter NB, delay right now, 10 mi south of Brattleboro, collision at a crossroads. They are sending inspectors up ahead to make sure it is safe to go. No timeline yet.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 7, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Anyone else on the Vermonter NB right now or know what happened up ahead? We are on a hold just below Brattleboro. They announced a collision at a crossroads, two vehicles. Hope everyone is all right! Don’t know whether it was train, trains, automobile, automobiles.
> 
> We are on Vermonter NB, delay right now, 10 mi south of Brattleboro, collision at a crossroads. They are sending inspectors up ahead to make sure it is safe to go. No timeline yet.



How are you doing on there? Any updates?


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 7, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> How are you doing on there? Any updates?



Still sitting, been an hour. Sounds like it may have been two cars that happened to meet at the crossing head on. Crew here does not have update on the time. Aah walkie talkie going off, OK, sounds like we can creep by the accident site now. Railrat shows we can make up half the delay by the time we get to SAB. Hope the car occupants are OK.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 7, 2022)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Still sitting, been an hour. Sounds like it may have been two cars that happened to meet at the crossing head on. Crew here does not have update on the time. Aah walkie talkie going off, OK, sounds like we can creep by the accident site now. Railrat shows we can make up half the delay by the time we get to SAB. Hope the car occupants are OK.



Yes, hope nobody was hurt.

Good that you’re moving soon.


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## Ryan (Dec 8, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> So much for lunch. I never see this mentioned. I paid for that lunch but never received it. I am sending them a copy of a restaurant receipt and I will file a dispute with Visa if they don't pay it.


You didn't pay for that lunch, you paid for being moved from Denver to Glenwood Springs, which you were.

If you were in a roomette for such a short trip that *wasn't* during a meal period, but were delayed such that you were on the train for dinner, you would expect to be fed "for free" and those expectations were met.

Sometimes delays provide more meals than "paid for", sometimes less. This is one of those cases.


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## 5280 Guy (Dec 9, 2022)

Ryan said:


> You didn't pay for that lunch, you paid for being moved from Denver to Glenwood Springs, which you were.
> 
> If you were in a roomette for such a short trip that *wasn't* during a meal period, but were delayed such that you were on the train for dinner, you would expect to be fed "for free" and those expectations were met.
> 
> Sometimes delays provide more meals than "paid for", sometimes less. This is one of those cases.


Incorrect. I paid for that lunch. Do you think Amtrak gives food away for free? A 12:10 PM boarding time means that the passenger is on time for lunch. An attendant told me on the way up that two meals were included on the return trip.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 9, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> Incorrect. I paid for that lunch. Do you think Amtrak gives food away for free? A 12:10 PM boarding time means that the passenger is on time for lunch. An attendant told me on the way up that two meals were included on the return trip.


Amtrak really does not count it like that.

Sleeper passengers are entitled to the meals serves during normal meal periods during the time they're on the train. Meal periods go by time, not location, irrespective of whether the train is late.

You are entitled to meals while on board. End of story.

And they've never served a complimentary alcoholic beverage at any meal except dinner since they introduced it.

If they don't reimbursement you for your restaurant meal, you are going try to chargeback the Amtrak ticket?  Amtrak will win that dispute. All that Amtrak has to do is prove your ticket was scanned by the conductor, which they can easily do.


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## railiner (Dec 10, 2022)

Receiving a 'free' meal on a seriously delayed train, could be considered a "good will" spot compensation for being delayed. I believe Amtrak still does that, including for coach passenger's in many cases, at least if able to...the 'beef stew', or sometimes having fast food delivered for the entire train.

While they can't offer free food for all, airlines will sometimes offer free drinks when they suffer long delays...


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## Ryan (Dec 10, 2022)

5280 Guy said:


> Incorrect. I paid for that lunch. Do you think Amtrak gives food away for free? A 12:10 PM boarding time means that the passenger is on time for lunch. An attendant told me on the way up that two meals were included on the return trip.


This is correct, because you're scheduled to be on the train for two meal periods. It's also a great illustration of how your "logic" is faulty.

Do you honestly think that the trip one way is more expensive than the trip the other way because you get two meals instead of one?

(spoiler alert: it's not, because that's not how it works)


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## Rasputin (Dec 10, 2022)

When it comes to Amtrak, expect nothing and you will never be disappointed.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 10, 2022)

It all works out anyway. If you ride often enough, you’ll miss some meals because the train is late. You’ll also be on board when the train is late and get some extra meals you weren’t expecting to get.

I know there’s a lot to complain about with Amtrak, but I think this one is worth letting go.


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## Lonnie (Dec 19, 2022)

The Empire Builder East Bound - the EBEB  - of course had mechanical problems all night in this sub-zero weather, and is nearly six hours late so I'll miss my LSL connection in Chicago tonight. I called, they don't yet know what they're going to do about all the missed connections. How do I ensure that I'll have a roomette tomorrow?


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## Ryan (Dec 19, 2022)

If you're willing to pay $740 to guarantee it, it looks like there's a room available for purchase Right Now.

I would perhaps call and see if they can modify your reservation from today's train to tomorrow's ASAP. Depending on what you paid, there may be a fare difference. If having the room is important to you, you might just want to pay and then try to get a refund/voucher after the fact. I think that's what I would do given the scarcity of rooms and the likelihood that you're not the only one in this position. Better than the random lottery of "who gets booked into the room first" and losing.


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## pennyk (Dec 19, 2022)

Ryan said:


> If you're willing to pay $740 to guarantee it, it looks like there's a room available for purchase Right Now.
> 
> I would perhaps call and see if they can modify your reservation from today's train to tomorrow's ASAP. Depending on what you paid, there may be a fare difference. If having the room is important to you, you might just want to pay and then try to get a refund/voucher after the fact. I think that's what I would do given the scarcity of rooms and the likelihood that you're not the only one in this position. Better than the random lottery of "who gets booked into the room first" and losing.


I was in a similar situation when the Capitol Limited on which I was traveling was running very late. I tried to switch from the Silver Star to the Silver Meteor since I knew I would not make the connection in WAS. The agent with whom I spoke (AGR) would not switch my reservation without my paying considerably extra, so I asked to be transferred to customer relations. After about an hour on the phone (while my train was just sitting outside PGH losing more time), I was able to switch trains without additional cost.


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## zephyr17 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> The Empire Builder East Bound - the EBEB  - of course had mechanical problems all night in this sub-zero weather, and is nearly six hours late so I'll miss my LSL connection in Chicago tonight. I called, they don't yet know what they're going to do about all the missed connections. How do I ensure that I'll have a roomette tomorrow?



You pretty much don't. If there is sleeper space available on the next Lake Shore you'll get it, but they will not downgrade another passenger with reservations on that train to open up space for misconnects.

They don't yet know what they'll do because there is a LOT of pad in the schedule and the Builder could still conceivably get there at 8:30 pm (according to asm.transitdocs). 

That is not to say you will make it. Any further delays at all will put your Chicago arrival after the Lake Shore, and you'll be out of slot so chances are there'll be more delays.

National operations will be tracking the situation, and will start work on protecting passengers during the day today. They'll likely have made arrangements by the time you get to MSP. They will change your reservation and arrange for hotel accommodations.

But a roomette cannot be had if no roomettes are open (they'll upgrade you to a bedroom of one of those is available, though). If you cannot be accommodayed in a sleeper, you unfortunately will be downgraded to coach and your accommodation charge refunded.

I do not know where you are headed, so do not know if re routing on the Capitol is an option. If it is, call back later today and see if they can do it. I think if it is possible, they'll try it, but it doesn't hurt to call and see what you can do and offer that as a alternative. You should not have to pay for it, as others have mentioned, get Customer Relations if you have to. Good thing today is a weekday, so they're there.

I've been 12-14 hours late into Chicago going east more times than I can count. Amtrak does very well at handling misconnecting passengers, but they can't conjure sleeper space out of thin air.

I do not want to hold out false hope, chances are you'll miss the Lake Shore and there will not be a roomette for you on tomorrow's.

The only way to guarantee a sleeper when connecting from long distance train to long distance is to build an overnight layover between into your travel plans at the connecting point. This applies especially to eastbound at Chicago from any western LDs.


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## Lonnie (Dec 19, 2022)

So indeed the 8 is arriving too late. I was able to reach Customer Relations when I noticed a roomette on the LSL tomorrow had opened up. She reserved it for me and noted it in my dossier. I'm curious about what hotel they'll put us in. Best way to find out? Can I choose my own hotel even if I have to pay the difference between the voucher and the charge?


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 19, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> So indeed the 8 is arriving too late. I was able to reach Customer Relations when I noticed a roomette on the LSL tomorrow had opened up. She reserved it for me and noted it in my dossier. I'm curious about what hotel they'll put us in. Best way to find out? Can I choose my own hotel even if I have to pay the difference between the voucher and the charge?


I've read reports that some have been put up in this hotel and that it's very nice. It will depend on what Amtrak can get considering it is a holiday week.






Swissotel Chicago - Luxury Hotel In Chicago - Swissôtel Hotels & Resorts


Swissôtel, luxury hotel in the heart of cities around the world. Stay in stylish, modern rooms and suites with high-end service.



www.swissotel.com


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 19, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> So indeed the 8 is arriving too late. I was able to reach Customer Relations when I noticed a roomette on the LSL tomorrow had opened up. She reserved it for me and noted it in my dossier. I'm curious about what hotel they'll put us in. Best way to find out? Can I choose my own hotel even if I have to pay the difference between the voucher and the charge?


Don't think you can use the Voucher except @ Amtraks Hotel, ( but I guess you could pay out of your pocket)but most of the time they're pretty nice/ If you're lucky you'll be in a Loop Area Place or Close to Union Station( we were put up @ the Hyatt Last time we missed Connections in CHI).

The Taxi Voucher is usable to any Hotel, and the Food $$$ they give you is yours to use!

Congrats on snagging a Roomette on the Lake Shore!


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## pennyk (Dec 19, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I've read reports that some have been put up in this hotel and that it's very nice. It will depend on what Amtrak can get considering it is a holiday week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I missed a connection to the Capitol Limited (returning from the Dallas Gathering), I was put up at the Swissotel, which was very nice. The taxi voucher was only for a specific taxi company. (I was told what color the taxi would be). There were 2 of us and we only used one voucher. The food voucher, in my opinion, was worthless to me. I believe it was only valid at certain places in Union Station. I believe McDonald's was one of the vendors, which is place where I do not eat. I paid for my own breakfast at the hotel and probably pizza at Beggar's for lunch. The procedure for receivng the vouchers was fairly easy. I am a very fast walker and I managed to be first in line, so I was done before most of my fellow passengers arrived at the customer service office.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 19, 2022)

pennyk said:


> When I missed a connection to the Capitol Limited (returning from the Dallas Gathering), I was put up at the Swissotel, which was very nice. The taxi voucher was only for a specific taxi company. (I was told what color the taxi would be). There were 2 of us and we only used one voucher. The food voucher, in my opinion, was worthless to me. I believe it was only valid at certain places in Union Station. I believe McDonald's was one of the vendors, which is place where I do not eat. I paid for my own breakfast at the hotel and probably pizza at Beggar's for lunch. The procedure for receivng the vouchers was fairly easy. I am a very fast walker and I managed to be first in line, so I was done before most of my fellow passengers arrived at the customer service office.


That was in 2019, so perhaps Amtrak has changed the Policy on Meal !



We were given a Voucher for Food ($74) that the Ticket Office Cashed, along with $28 for a Taxi that was also Cashed.( No particular Taxi was prescribed)

We took the Cab that Night since it was Close to Midnight after a Very Late Zephyr arrival that caused us to miss the Shuttle from Galesburg to Springfield, then found that Breakfast was included in the Room Rate @ the Hotel upon arrival.

We ate Lunch @ a nice Cafe in the Loop the next day, and walked to Union Station since the Weather was nice and it wasn't far.

Amtrak had booked us into a Bedroom on the Texas Eagle for that afternoon, so we hung out in the Lounge till time to board.

I've heard stories of others being Bused to the Suburbs, so I guess it's YMMV!!!


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## zephyr17 (Dec 19, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> So indeed the 8 is arriving too late. I was able to reach Customer Relations when I noticed a roomette on the LSL tomorrow had opened up. She reserved it for me and noted it in my dossier. I'm curious about what hotel they'll put us in. Best way to find out? Can I choose my own hotel even if I have to pay the difference between the voucher and the charge?


The hotels they sent me to in Chicago were always very nice. They were direct billed to Amtrak and I never had to deal with settling up with the hotel at all.

Opting out of Amtrak's direct bill will probably just cause you problems. It isn't worth the hassle. The hotels they've sent me to have always been nice to outstanding. Never the Swissotel though. 

Glad to hear you snagged that roomette.


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## Willbridge (Dec 19, 2022)

A trainload of passengers from Train 6 were moved by charter bus to the Swissotel this July, me among them. Train 6 had managed to miss every Chicago Amtrak connection. I think everyone was impressed with the hotel, but the best was a coach passenger going to Sandusky who called everyone he could think of to tell them what a good deal he was getting.

Amtrak had booked me for three nights, as Train 59 had been deleted on weekends. Nice hotel, but I had paid for a reunion and hotel in New Orleans. After one night I was on my way to NOLA via Charlottesville. This was my second Chicago hotel stay in a row. On the previous stay, it was also a nice hotel, reached by taxi.


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## trimetbusfan (Dec 20, 2022)

Watched this video on YouTube not too long ago about the delay/missconnect process in Chicago


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## joelkfla (Dec 20, 2022)

Train 8(18) running 4 hours late, and report on YouTube chat that it's in emergency stop a few miles west of Perham MN with 3 of 4 engines refusing to start.


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## joelkfla (Dec 20, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Train 8(18) running 4 hours late, and report on YouTube chat that it's in emergency stop a few miles west of Perham MN with 3 of 4 engines refusing to start.


Still stuck. Hope the heat is on. It's -20F out there.


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## jis (Dec 20, 2022)

jis said:


> That is the other thing. Long welded rails would tend to pull apart and fracture under extreme low temperatures. And undetected that would cause a derailment starnding the train in life threatening situation for an extended period. Depending on the nature of the derailment the engine may or may not be able to deliver HEP potentially causing an even more life threatening situation.


Unfortunately a situation that is potentially dire is already developing near Detroit Lakes involving an Empire Builder which has lost all three ALC42s and has only one alive P42 and is currently stuck due to brake failure of some sort. It is not clear how they will extricate it from this mess with a blizzard bearing down. Quite concerning actually.


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## joelkfla (Dec 20, 2022)

jis said:


> Unfortunately a situation that is potentially dire is already developing near Detroit Lakes involving an Empire Builder which has lost all three ALC42s and has only one alive P42 and is currently stuck due to brake failure of some sort. It is not clear how they will extricate it from this mess with a blizzard bearing down. Quite concerning actually.


Stuck 4 hours now. Mechanical is in communication with Siemens.


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## Lonnie (Dec 20, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The hotels they sent me to in Chicago were always very nice. They were direct billed to Amtrak and I never had to deal with settling up with the hotel at all.
> 
> Opting out of Amtrak's direct bill will probably just cause you problems. It isn't worth the hassle. The hotels they've sent me to have always been nice to outstanding. Never the Swissotel though.
> 
> Glad to hear you snagged that roomette.


Indeed we were brought to the Swissotel and it was such luxury! I have to say, they handled the whole process really well, and the dozens of people, filling two buses, were incredibly well behaved and patient. Not a single entitled knucklehead among them. We slept like babies and opted to walk to the station, which actually got us there before everyone else. What a delight it was to walk through a real city with a fascinating history reflected in its buildings!


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## Ryan (Dec 20, 2022)

And you're all set in a roomette for the next train?


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## alpha3 (Dec 20, 2022)

jis said:


> Unfortunately a situation that is potentially dire is already developing near Detroit Lakes involving an Empire Builder which has lost all three ALC42s and has only one alive P42 and is currently stuck due to brake failure of some sort. It is not clear how they will extricate it from this mess with a blizzard bearing down. Quite concerning actually.


 
Yikes. Bad stuff; hoping the best for the folks on board. New locomotives, too. Inexcusable.


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## joelkfla (Dec 20, 2022)

EB 8(18) still stuck since 8:45 Central time east of Detroit Lakes MN, fouling a switch blocking both mainlines of double track. It has 4 engines. The first 2 are Ventures, I'm not sure about the 3rd, the 4th is GE. The 2nd & 3rd engines will not release brakes. Reports from on board say there is heat, but toilets are not working.

A railcam YouTuber was live streaming on site, but his phone died.

Semens is on scene, but has been unable to fix the problem. A BNSF freight engine is about to arrive. They need to push the train back 2 car lengths to clear the switch. There's a report that Amtrak is sending buses, but it will take them 2 hours to reach the site.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 20, 2022)

Glad the hotel was lovely and provided you with a nice respite. I’ve been in Chicago only once, but I too was impressed with the buildings. I’m glad you got to walk and see some of them.

Keep us posted on how the LSL and the last leg of your trip goes.


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## west point (Dec 20, 2022)

Three locos shut down?? Even though it might come in conflict with EPA rules there needs to be exceptions. There must be some kind of overide of all protection circuits to allow the loco to start and run to a safe location. HEP cannot be hostage to computer that has a glich.


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## Lonnie (Dec 20, 2022)

Ryan said:


> And you're all set in a roomette for the next train?


Yes. At about 4pm yesterday I noticed in the app that when I tried to book today's train, there was a roomette available that hadn't been available earlier. I called Customer Relations right away and she reserved it for me as it was clear by then that our train was never going to make the connection. She emailed me confirmation and by the time we got off the train, I'd been emailed with a fresh ticket with the roomette included. Needless to say, I was thrilled. Looking forward to my Viewliner upper bunk in a few minutes.


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## Amtrak709 (Dec 21, 2022)

I must say that I am gratified to read these past few positive posts on this thread after so many days, weeks, months, even a year of negative reporting. Makes this long time rail passenger since the 1960's feel somewhat positive toward the future of Amtrak operations and performance.


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## joelkfla (Dec 21, 2022)

Completing the saga of EB 8(18): Transitdocs shows it arriving at Staples MN @ 6:30pm, 13 hours late. Transit time from Detroit Lakes to Staples was 10:02, compared to normal 1:00. At least 7 ½ hours of that was spent sitting in one place. Arrival in CHI was at 9:46am today, 17 hours late.

From listening to the scanner traffic, after the train somehow lost it's brake line air when going over a crossover, the main problem was that the computers in the 2nd & 3rd Charger locos just wouldn't allow their brakes to be released. I heard someone say that the computer showed the brakes were released, but they were still applied.


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## jis (Dec 21, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> From listening to the scanner traffic, after the train somehow lost it's brake line air when going over a crossover, the main problem was that the computers in the 2nd & 3rd Charger locos just wouldn't allow their brakes to be released. I heard someone say that the computer showed the brakes were released, but they were still applied.


Looks like they somehow got the brakes released since the entire consist is being pulled by the BNSF power. Maybe they finally did the old "Three finger Salute" - or even a "Power Down and Reboot".


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## alpha3 (Dec 21, 2022)

west point said:


> Three locos shut down?? Even though it might come in conflict with EPA rules there needs to be exceptions. There must be some kind of overide of all protection circuits to allow the loco to start and run to a safe location. HEP cannot be hostage to computer that has a glich.


Absolutely, couldn't agree with you more. Why aren't they having a Siemen's maintenance rep ride these trains until the bugs are worked out? Brand new locos, that is just unacceptable BS, and in weather like this, dangerous as hell. Override everything, get the #$% things going, let's go. Glad everyone arrived safe.


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## jis (Dec 21, 2022)

west point said:


> Three locos shut down?? Even though it might come in conflict with EPA rules there needs to be exceptions. There must be some kind of overide of all protection circuits to allow the loco to start and run to a safe location. HEP cannot be hostage to computer that has a glich.





alpha3 said:


> Absolutely, couldn't agree with you more. Why aren't they having a Siemen's maintenance rep ride these trains until the bugs are worked out? Brand new locos, that is just unacceptable BS, and in weather like this, dangerous as hell. Override everything, get the #$% things going, let's go. Glad everyone arrived safe.


Suffice it to say that locked brakes have nothing to do with the prime mover or EPA. But hey, when we are on a roll..... 

They did get the thing going, and Siemens technicians were involved. It just took some time to release the brakes, which probably required shutting down the units since it was a computer problem and those tend to be on when the engine is switched on, and then they got additional power from BNSF and finally arrived 17 hours late. In general HEP was not lost through the episode.


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## joelkfla (Dec 21, 2022)

jis said:


> Suffice it to say that locked brakes have nothing to do with the prime mover or EPA. But hey, when we are on a roll.....
> 
> They did get the thing going, and Siemens technicians were involved. It just took some time to release the brakes, which probably required shutting down the units since it was a computer problem and those tend to be on when the engine is switched on, and then they got additional power from BNSF and finally arrived 17 hours late. In general HEP was not lost through the episode.


But there were reports from passengers that the toilets were not operational. I don't know whether that was due to a reduction in HEP, or something else, like frozen pipes or full holding tanks.


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## jis (Dec 21, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> But there were reports from passengers that the toilets were not operational. I don't know whether that was due to a reduction in HEP, or something else, like frozen pipes or full holding tanks.


Frozen pipes. Also has nothing to do with EPA. HEP was being supplied from the P42 anyway.


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## Lonnie (Dec 21, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> But there were reports from passengers that the toilets were not operational. I don't know whether that was due to a reduction in HEP, or something else, like frozen pipes or full holding tanks.


Toilets in at least two coach cars were not operational for most of the trip on the EB departing Seattle 12/17.


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## Lonnie (Dec 21, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Glad the hotel was lovely and provided you with a nice respite. I’ve been in Chicago only once, but I too was impressed with the buildings. I’m glad you got to walk and see some of them.
> 
> Keep us posted on how the LSL and the last leg of your trip goes.


Well I just love the Viewliners because I'm the top bunk sleeper, and we had a great SCA. Arrived in Springfield only a few minutes late - I think that delay happened in Albany - after an uneventful trip. The flex food is really pretty atrocious and the LSA (actually OSA, Only Service Attendant) was clearly tired and pissed that she was the only one to handle all those people wanting breakfast and lunch. As a former "waitress," I can sympathize with her difficulties but I could also see that her every move was inefficient and just plain slow. But since we had nowhere better to be, it really didn't affect us.


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## west point (Dec 22, 2022)

jis said:


> Frozen pipes. Also has nothing to do with EPA. HEP was being supplied from the P42 anyway.


My thought was that this problem of brakes did not affect HEP However, I can imagine a single loco train shutting down for some problem detected by a computer preventing restart. Now if that happened in a snow storm out of say CHI the passengers would be in trouble with no HEP and relief hours away. Or say a front range train south from Denver, Or a Cascades train, or 27 & 28.

What about a EPA reg not alllowing a loco to restart if tier 4 not being met?


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## Tlcooper93 (Dec 24, 2022)

It seems every time I get a friend to take an Acela, something terrible happens. I may stop recommending Amtrak to my buddies.

I upgraded my friend yesterday with a coupon for a BOS - BAL trip scheduled to arrive at 8:30pm and delayed until 2:20am just after Wilmington.

Any idea what the hell happened on this train? I want my coupon back (I know not gonna happen) and I want to give my friend a concrete reason for this.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 24, 2022)

You mean 12/23/22 

Weather!

Go read all of the alerts for the NEC.


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