# Brightline Provides a Ray of Hope



## George K (Aug 6, 2018)

https://spectator.org/a-train-to-somewhere-brightline-provides-a-ray-of-hope/


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

I know this isn’t the point, but:



> each train set will use two 4400 horsepower 16 cylinder Siemens Charger Diesel engines


The SCB-40s have 4,000 horsepower. Once again, my point about mainstream outlets almost always failing to get basic train info right, is shown.


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## jis (Aug 6, 2018)

That's right. An acid test of whether the person actually has some depth of knowledge is whether they think that Brightline uses a straight off the shelf SC-44 or not.






There are several errors of detail...



> What truly makes Brightline unique, however, is that it is completely privatized and all components of the rail line will be under the control of FECI.





> Brightline solves these issues by owning the tracks, trains, and stations on which all of their trains run.


No. The rail line between Miami and Cocoa will continue to be owned and operated by FECR which is owned by Grupo Mexico, which has nothing to do with Brightline other than a contractual relationship. The route and even the Brightline owned trackage between Cocoa and Orlando, and eventually Tampa, will be dispatched by the Florida Dispatching Company, which is partly owned by Brghtline, not wholly owned by it.

Brightline solves this by having good contracts in place, something that anyone else could do if there was some semblance of honesty in dealing involved on the part of all participants.



> The current Brightline trains operate on the tracks of the Florida East Coast Railway, a freight line that is owned by Florida East Coast Industries, which is also the parent company of All Aboard Florida, which will operate and maintain the trains.


No. FECR is not owned by FECI. To reiterate, FECR is owned by Grupo Mexico. FECI, which owns Brightline, is owned by the Fortress Group, which is owned by Softbank.



> FECI has had to upgrade the track and street crossings while also installing a Positive Train Control (PTC) signaling system


It is FECR that is doing those upgrades, not FECI. It is FECR which will be upgrading and douboling its railroad from West Palm Beach to Cocoa, not FECI. I am sure Craig Asplund should be delighted to learn that he is reporting to a boss that is not the right one







> This makes it the second-fastest passenger rail system in the United States after Amtrak’s Acela Express (which operates at 150 MPH between Washington and Boston).


Of course we shall completely ignore the Northeast Regionals. Afterall we are on a roll at 125mph


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

jis said:


> That's right. An acid test of whether the person actually has some depth of knowledge is whether they think that Brightline uses a straight off the shelf SC-44 or not.
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Exactly. I guess I was too lazy to look it up myself, but I would have sworn that the NERs run at 125. Is it true though that Brightline will tie with InterCity 125 for the title of world's fastest diesel train?


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## George K (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I know this isn’t the point, but:
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Well yeah. That comment about the Acela running at 150 mph "between Washington and Boston" is not completely accurate, is it. How long does it really achieve and keep those speeds, half an hour?


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## jis (Aug 6, 2018)

There are many diesel trains, specially DMUs that operate now at upto 125mph. IC125 was the first to run at that speed in commercial service.

All in all there is about 50 miles +/e of 150mph trackage if that, as I recall. So ....


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

George K said:


> cpotisch said:
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There's a portion in Connecticut where it runs at 150 mph, but I thought that was the only part north of NYP where it does that. I'm trying to remember, does it offer go 150 south of New York?


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## jis (Aug 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> George K said:
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Which portion of Connecticut do you believe it runs at 150mph?

There are two 150mph segments at present. One is in Rhode Island and the other is in Massachusetts. It does not run at 150mph anywhere else at present. The next segment on which it might run at 150mph is likely in NJ but that has been pushed back to at least 2019, and perhaps later now.

There are a couple of segments south of New York where it runs at 135mph at present.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

jis said:


> cpotisch said:
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Thanks. I've only taken Acela once (BOS-NYP) and that was several years ago, so I don't have a very good sense or memory of where we went fast.


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## AGM.12 (Aug 6, 2018)

I am willing to cut this fellow some slack since the essence of his column is why Amtrak cannot be as proactive as Brightline seems to be.


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## cpotisch (Aug 6, 2018)

AGM.12 said:


> I am willing to cut this fellow some slack since the essence of his column is why Amtrak cannot be as proactive as Brightline seems to be.


I don't quite see the connection. He said a bunch of nonsense that isn't true that he could easily have looked up to verify. If it was a couple minor errors, I might cut some slack, but he said a lot of pretty noticeable falsehoods.


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## VentureForth (Aug 9, 2018)

Cut the kid a little slack:



> Joseph Gerig is a student at American University and a development intern. He also writes on transportation through the Young Writers’ Program.


Don't excuse his errors, point them out and teach him. As for his other errors, much of it was true when Brightline started. Didn't the FECR/FECI split happen like 3-4 years ago? I think these contracts are so good because when they were initiated, it was designed by one parent company.


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## Anderson (Aug 9, 2018)

Yeah, AAF was originally wrapped up with one of the two sides when the split happened, so technically it _was_ on company-owned tracks (albeit with an internal legal buffer to hopefully prevent this from bringing down the railroad if it went sour). Many of the other errors were technical slips (NE Regionals are on the same tracks as the Acela, and IIRC that's the only other 125+ track in the US; there are other diesel options out there that also do 125 or so, but nothing has beaten it...so it's technically a multi-way tie, not a two-way tie with the UK's Intercity 125s).

So while I won't give the guy a Pulitzer, I can understand where most of the mixups came from...many of them are from actual basic research rather than not doing basic research...but heck, I think some of us have had trouble tracking the moving corporate structures and the like.


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## VentureForth (Aug 12, 2018)

Lol... I accidentally found him on Facebook scrolling through there Amtrak Fans group videos. Name like that isn't hard to miss.


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## VentureForth (Aug 12, 2018)

I sent him an IM. We'll see of he responds


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## VentureForth (Aug 14, 2018)

He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol


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## cpotisch (Aug 15, 2018)

VentureForth said:


> He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol


That's great. Did he say if he's actually going to correct that stuff, though?


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## VentureForth (Aug 16, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> VentureForth said:
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> > He responded! Was very gracious and admitted that he was basing on some old research. I invited him here to get the latest and greatest truth. lol
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He didn't say...


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## cpotisch (Aug 16, 2018)

VentureForth said:


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Yeah, I'm gonna assume that that means no.


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 16, 2018)

I'm sure the average reader would appreciate the 4,400 vs. 4,000 horsepower question as well as the extremely complicated relationship between Brightline, FEC Industries, FEC railroad and various holding companies. Face it, folks, the average reader cares nothing about such details, only railfans obsess about them.


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## cpotisch (Aug 16, 2018)

MikefromCrete said:


> I'm sure the average reader would appreciate the 4,400 vs. 4,000 horsepower question as well as the extremely complicated relationship between Brightline, FEC Industries, FEC railroad and various holding companies. Face it, folks, the average reader cares nothing about such details, only railfans obsess about them.


So you're logic is that since a lot of people won't care, there's no point in getting facts right? While the horsepower thing really isn't important, a lot of the stuff about ownership of Brightline and FEC, and who controls them, is pretty important. Ignorance of the reader doesn't justify ignorance of the writer.


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## railbuck (Aug 16, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Ignorance of the reader doesn't justify ignorance of the writer.


Ignorance of the reader may, however, be a direct result of the ignorance of the writer.


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## jis (Aug 17, 2018)

I just try to point out where an article's content is not aligned with the currently known facts. I am somewhat bemused to see how many people seem to think that this is an affront to humanity or something.


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## jis (Aug 17, 2018)

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639520111/florida-gov-rick-scott-has-convoluted-ties-to-rail-company-whose-project-he-supp?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Most people in positions of power have their snout in some trough. The trick is to make sure that they have their snout in the trough that you care about, so that they keep feeding the trough in the hope that ever larger portions would arrive at their snout. In a manner of speaking of course ...



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## Just-Thinking-51 (Aug 18, 2018)

jis said:


> https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639520111/florida-gov-rick-scott-has-convoluted-ties-to-rail-company-whose-project-he-supp?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> Most people in positions of power have their snout in some trough. The trick is to make sure that they have their snout in the trough that you care about, so that they keep feeding the trough in the hope that ever larger portions would arrive at their snout. In a manner of speaking of course ...
> 
> ...





> Florida Gov. Rick Scott Has Convoluted Ties To Rail Company Whose Project He Supports


Rick Scott and his wife are invested in a portion of the parent of the Brightline group. So turning down the federal funded higher speed grants result in his family potential of a indirect profit.

Nice how disclosure forms only require you to check more than a million dollars invested. So you dont have true transparency.


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## bretton88 (Aug 18, 2018)

At the time Scott turned down the funds, Brightline was probably not anything more than an idea in someone's mind. So whatever the reasoning for turning down the funds, this probably wasn't it. Now if Florida was on the hook for cost overruns (and HSR projects have a distressing habit of overruns that start with a B), it might have made more sense.


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## chrsjrcj (Aug 18, 2018)

bretton88 said:


> At the time Scott turned down the funds, Brightline was probably not anything more than an idea in someone's mind. So whatever the reasoning for turning down the funds, this probably wasn't it. Now if Florida was on the hook for cost overruns (and HSR projects have a distressing habit of overruns that start with a B), it might have made more sense.


AAF might not have been announced until 2012, but FECI certainly laid the groundwork starting in 2007 when they spun the FEC Railway into a separate company while also retaining rights to run a passenger railroad between Miami and Jacksonville.

Speaking of overruns, remember when AAF was first announced as a $1 bn project to open in 2014?

It is interesting that Scott turned down the HSR funds, which studies showed would recover operating costs, but approved a commuter railroad even though it falls significantly short of breaking even.

In reality, the likely reason for Scott rejecting the funds had more to do with obstructing Obama. Senator Mitch McConnell even said Republicans will do everything they can to obstruct the President. Besides, it is not like the Federal funds went back to the treasury. They were redistributed to other projects.


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## VentureForth (Aug 19, 2018)

He probably invested in Fires before they bought FECI. It's not uncommon for bazillionaires to be highly diversified.

Besides, as an investor, he's more likely to lose his own money.

Heck, there's probably some Fortress in portfolio. Can I not run for any office? Can I not do what's best and makes sense for taxpayers?


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## chrsjrcj (Aug 19, 2018)

Its a conflict of interest that his administration is responsible for approving a project that he will benefit from financially.

And how can you argue this makes sense for taxpayers? He approved SunRail, despite it not coming close to recovering operating costs.


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## jis (Aug 19, 2018)

He and everyone else also approve scads of highway construction that will never come close to recovering costs. So what?


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## me_little_me (Aug 19, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> MikefromCrete said:
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> > I'm sure the average reader would appreciate the 4,400 vs. 4,000 horsepower question as well as the extremely complicated relationship between Brightline, FEC Industries, FEC railroad and various holding companies. Face it, folks, the average reader cares nothing about such details, only railfans obsess about them.
> ...


Then again, is there enough interest by the publisher in printing those errors and their correction. While print media generally print a fix, it is often a small mention in an obscure place with little reference to the original for anyone to remember it. I'd say it's probably more useful to get such facts done correctly up front or, at least, make future articles correct unless the information is significant.


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## cpotisch (Aug 19, 2018)

me_little_me said:


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This was a digital article anyway, so making changes to correct falsehoods costs nothing.


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## VentureForth (Aug 20, 2018)

chrsjrcj said:


> Its a conflict of interest that his administration is responsible for approving a project that he will benefit from financially.
> 
> And how can you argue this makes sense for taxpayers? He approved SunRail, despite it not coming close to recovering operating costs.


If it were a direct investment, the case could possibly be made. But the way our government was set up was not to have lifelong politicians without any conflict of interest in the private economy. Rather, it was intended to be a "part time" job for those in the private sector to be servants to the public for a limited period of time, then return to their practice.
It would be categorically impossible to remove every politician from every potential or actual conflict of interest.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 20, 2018)

FEC is owned by Fortress, but that does not mean that FEC is major part of Fortress. Fortress has about $36 billion of assets under management. Their entire transportation portfolio is about $1 billion - 3% of the total assets. I'm not sure the dots connect from an investment in Fortress and conflict of interest with Brightline and FEC.


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## jis (Aug 20, 2018)

I think the newspapers attempt to paint the Frotress Investment Portfolio connection as a conflict of interest is complete BS. The earlier cancellation was pure politics. The later acceptance and eventual enthusiasm was the result of Brightline managing its political relationships and PR well and has little to do with Fortress investment. As PRR says, FECI is a rather small part of Fortress and that too disconnected from the specific portfolio in question, for it to have any material impact on the Governor’s riches. Heaven knows he has created way more havoc elsewhere for people to get hung up on this one [emoji57]


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 20, 2018)

Rick Scott made his Fortune as a Health Care Criminal, served as a So/So Governor of Florida, and is now running for the Senate so he can get to Sodom on the Potomac where the real Big Bucks are made!

No poor Senators except for Amtrak Joe Biden, the Last Honest Senator!


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## me_little_me (Aug 20, 2018)

cpotisch said:


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Not true. No printing costs but most of the time (and money) is in the editing (by the reporter) and editing (by the editor) along with any other approvals as well as the time cost of posting which itself has to be edited and approved.

Whether it's a new article or a rewritten one, it's not "costs nothing".


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