# Silver Service changes?



## Oreius (Jun 22, 2020)

I’ve rescheduled a Florida trip for September 6-going from Elizabethtown to Kissimmee, FL. I’m guessing Amtrak is only operating 1 daily train to Florida at this time. I am on the 91 Silver Star, leaving PHL at 12:35 PM and arriving at KIS AT 10:44 AM the next day. I know that the Star was supposed to get a dedicated lounge/diner for the sleepers, but with the coronavirus I’m not sure if this has changed. Also, will the Star follow the Meteor’s route? The travel time is about 22 hours. I have been assigned Car 9112, Room 1. Any info or helpful hints?


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jun 22, 2020)

Oreius said:


> I’ve rescheduled a Florida trip for September 6-going from Elizabethtown to Kissimmee, FL. I’m guessing Amtrak is only operating 1 daily train to Florida at this time. I am on the 91 Silver Star, leaving PHL at 12:35 PM and arriving at KIS AT 10:44 AM the next day. I know that the Star was supposed to get a dedicated lounge/diner for the sleepers, but with the coronavirus I’m not sure if this has changed. Also, will the Star follow the Meteor’s route? The travel time is about 22 hours. I have been assigned Car 9112, Room 1. Any info or helpful hints?


The Silver Star will depart New York on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays southbound, and depart Miami on Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays northbound. The Silver Meteor will operate on the other four days. Each train will operate on the same route and schedule as they currently do. The Silver Star will get a Viewliner sleeper lounge once the changes take effect on July 6th.


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## Skyline (Jun 22, 2020)

I thought this ill-advised BS wasn't to begin until October 1.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jun 22, 2020)

Skyline said:


> I thought this ill-advised BS wasn't to begin until October 1.


Most routes don't change until then; the Florida trains are exceptions.


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## Qapla (Jun 22, 2020)

Oreius said:


> will the Star follow the Meteor’s route?



As I understand it, the Star will continue to go through Raleigh, Columbia and Tampa while the Meteor will use the more direct route through Florence and Charleston and not go to Tampa.


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## the_traveler (Jun 22, 2020)

It doesn’t make sense that Raleigh (for example) will have service 3 days in a row, and then not for the next 4 days at all! Why not alternate the days (service 1 day, no service the next day)?


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## railiner (Jun 22, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> It doesn’t make sense that Raleigh (for example) will have service 3 days in a row, and then not for the next 4 days at all! Why not alternate the days (service 1 day, no service the next day)?


I agree. The only reason I can figure they are doing it this way, may be for staffing convenience... certainly not for the benefit of travelers...


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## jiml (Jun 23, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> It doesn’t make sense that Raleigh (for example) will have service 3 days in a row, and then not for the next 4 days at all! Why not alternate the days (service 1 day, no service the next day)?


I was going to ask the same question!


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 23, 2020)

One tiny pleasant thing in all this misery—room 1 is a lovely roomette—neighbors on only one side, so usually nice and quiet.


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## west point (Jun 23, 2020)

What is worse than Raleigh loosing star service is Tampa loosing that service to SE Florida. Over 90k passengers a year to / from SE Florida. Just 3/7th of those passengers now..


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## jiml (Jun 23, 2020)

west point said:


> What is worse than Raleigh loosing star service is Tampa loosing that service to SE Florida. Over 90k passengers a year to / from SE Florida. Just 3/7th of those passengers now..


I'm surprised they're not rerouting the Meteors on that leg to retain that ridership.


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## Qapla (Jun 23, 2020)

If they did that it might not give them any ammunition for when they want to discontinue of of the Silvers ...


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## me_little_me (Jun 24, 2020)

jiml said:


> I'm surprised they're not rerouting the Meteors on that leg to retain that ridership.


Or at least run a coach train between Tampa and SE Florida until full service (ha ha) is restored.


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## Palmland (Jun 24, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Or at least run a coach train between Tampa and SE Florida until full service (ha ha) is restored.



Yes, could be just a couple superliner coaches including baggage-coach. Also run a connecting thruway bus or two from Rocky Mount to Raleigh and Columbia when the Star isn’t operating.


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## me_little_me (Jun 25, 2020)

Palmland said:


> Yes, could be just a couple superliner coaches including baggage-coach. Also run a connecting thruway bus or two from Rocky Mount to Raleigh and Columbia when the Star isn’t operating.


Why use Superliner coaches? They have the available Viewliner ones since their not running a double-size train on the Meteor.


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## Palmland (Jun 25, 2020)

They could use Amfleet coaches (there aren’t any Viewliner coaches). But I just find Superliner coaches more comfortable.


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## the_traveler (Jun 25, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Why use Superliner coaches? They have the available Viewliner ones since their not running a double-size train on the Meteor.


There are Viewliner sleepers and Viewliner Dining Cars (er - I meant ”sleeper lounges”), but there are not any Viewliner coaches!


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 25, 2020)

Something people don't discuss a lot is Columbia's ridership. If you look at the current RPA numbers from 2019 you get an average of 42 people boarding/detraining on every train or 84 passengers per day. For a station with service at 1:38 AM, and 4:01 AM that is incredible. Now imagine if you had a second frequency at better hours. Or if you adjusted the schedule to move 91 into the 11 PM, and 92 into the 7 AM hour. 

For comparisons lets look at Charleston, SC which has four daily trains (2 NB, 2 SB) at decent hours for all but one. With a station much further from downtown. 

41 Passengers per Train, or 164 Passengers Per Day. 

Here are the per train numbers at the other stations unique to the Silver Star. 

Southern Pines, NC: 10 Passengers Per Train, 20 Passengers Per Day
Hamlet, NC: 5.7 Passengers Per Train, 11 Passengers Per Day
Camden, SC: 4.7 Passengers Per Train, 9 Passengers Per Day
Denmark, SC: 4 Passengers Per Train, 8 Passengers Per Day

Cities Unique to the Silver Meteor/Palmetto in North/South Carolina

Fayetteville, NC: 32 Passengers Per Train, or 131 Passengers Per Day
Dillion, SC: 7 Passengers Per Train, or 14 Passengers Per Day
Florence, SC: 27 Passengers Per Train, or 108 Passengers Per Day (This station receives a lot of Columbia traffic)
Kingstree, SC: 7 Passengers Per Train, or 28 Passengers Per Day (Interesting that the No. 6, and 7 popular destinations are the next station in both directions)
Yemassee, SC: 25 Passengers Per Train, or 6 Passengers Per Day. 

Yemassee, Kingstree, Dillon, Camden, Denmark, Hamlet, and Southern Pines are all similar to each other. Note that the routes with four trains a day (2 NB, 2 SB) perform much better. 

These are cities Amtrak does limited (street sign pointing to the station) to no marketing in. Imagine what could be done with better marketing, and better times in these cities.


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## Allypet (Jun 25, 2020)

I might have to run to Florida in early to mid July. I usually take the auto train but since I might have to travel solo I am thinking of the Slivers to save a few bucks, so this is good information to know. I read the both the slivers have their menus back. Did any of them receive the new viewliners II yet? I was thinking about a roomette vs a bedroom. I know things change rapidly in these times and I just want to be prepared with current information. Thanks.


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## Palmland (Jun 25, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> Something people don't discuss a lot is Columbia's ridership. If you look at the current RPA numbers from 2019 you get an average of 42 people boarding/detraining on every train or 84 passengers per day. For a station with service at 1:38 AM, and 4:01 AM that is incredible. Now imagine if you had a second frequency at better hours. Or if you adjusted the schedule to move 91 into the 11 PM, and 92 into the 7 AM hour.
> 
> For comparisons lets look at Charleston, SC which has four daily trains (2 NB, 2 SB) at decent hours for all but one. With a station much further from downtown.
> 
> ...


Good info, Seaboard. So true about Amtrak marketing, or lack of. If Amtrak was interested in preserving the Star’s traffic base, how about on the days the Star doesn’t operate using a Thruway bus for the straight shot on I-20 that includes Camden and takes only a 1.5 hours and connects to the Palmetto rather than the Meteor. . You pick up 93 customers (assuming all are headed north of Raleigh) at minimal cost.

Amtrak seems reluctant to use the Thruway bus concept and is an easy way to pick up revenue. Sort or a poor man‘s hub and spoke system the airlines use so successfully.


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 25, 2020)

Honestly a Thruway Bus connection to the Palmetto in addition to the Silver Star would be a godsend. You could even start it in Augusta. Columbia is a fairly decent untapped market that if marketed right could do really well. Columbia is a big junction town if you had an extension to the Piedmont to Charleston via Columbia you would find a lot of day trip traffic into Charleston.


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## railiner (Jun 25, 2020)

Seaboard92

Your stat on Kingstree's relatively heavy traffic to the next station, sounds like school children getting their "first train ride" experience..


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## Seaboard92 (Jun 25, 2020)

railiner said:


> Seaboard92
> 
> Your stat on Kingstree's relatively heavy traffic to the next station, sounds like school children getting their "first train ride" experience..



If that is true those kids had a much better field trip than anything that I ever was offered. I am wondering if it is people going from Kingstree to the hospital in Florence which is in the station parking lot. Few hospitals have a train station on Campus but Florence does. Public transit in that part of the state doesn't really exist much so it wouldn't surprise me. Charleston also would make sense for that with the main MUSC Campus being in Charleston as well, even though the times are abysmal for that. But one must do what one must do.


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## Eric S (Jun 25, 2020)

Palmland said:


> Amtrak seems reluctant to use the Thruway bus concept and is an easy way to pick up revenue. Sort or a poor man‘s hub and spoke system the airlines use so successfully.


This! A million times over. Well, maybe not quite a million, but there are probably dozens of feeder bus routes, serving both corridor and long-distance trains, that are at least worth looking into. Amtrak has added a few in recent years (Wilson to Eastern North Carolina and Newton to Oklahoma City come to mind) but there should be so many more.


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## me_little_me (Jun 26, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> There are Viewliner sleepers and Viewliner Dining Cars (er - I meant ”sleeper lounges”), but there are not any Viewliner coaches!


I'm referring to the EXISTING coach cars that have been used up to now on the two Silver trains. Many of those cars will now be sitting on the side with only one Silver train - along with the spares from the Crescent and the other eastern trains with spare cars from not being used 7 days a week.


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## the_traveler (Jun 26, 2020)

Those are not Viewliner coaches, they are mostly Amfleet II (although I’ve seen Amfleet Is used on the LSL). 

I was only going from BOS to SDY, so I thought it might be the “short” coach. But I saw many seat checks for Toledo - and they boarded in Boston!


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## PVD (Jun 26, 2020)

To be honest, the refreshed AM-2 are not bad for a coach ride....


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## the_traveler (Jun 26, 2020)

I’ll take an AM-2 over an AM-1 any day!


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## railiner (Jun 26, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> I’ll take an AM-2 over an AM-1 any day!


Agreed for comfort. But if I was a commuter in a hurry, I think having two exits per car, might be an advantage of a AM-1


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## PVD (Jun 26, 2020)

Also, the AM-1 is an automatic door, at busy corridor stops with high platforms you can open the whole side... those NEC trains don't have crew to cover all doors...


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## VentureForth (Jul 16, 2020)

Alright. I'm confused and the Amtrak website doesn't want to help.

It looks like the Silver Star is running three days a week and the Meteor is running four. But it's not like alternating days, rather every free days the train changes.

Anyone have a more descriptive schedule of the Silvers?


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## John Bobinyec (Jul 16, 2020)

91 Departs NYP Fri., Sat., Sun.
92 Departs MIA Thu., Fri., Sat.

97 Departs NYP Mon., Tue., Wed., Thu.
98 Departs MIA Sun., Mon., Tue., Wed.

jb

PS For me it's easy to remember. The Silver Star runs through here (in both directions) on Fri., Sat. and Sun. "Here" is NC.


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## cocojacoby (Jul 16, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> Alright. I'm confused and the Amtrak website doesn't want to help.



Yeah, it's really frustrating. Amtrak needs to wake up and post new schedules. They seem to want to keep people in the dark about what is available. Not good.


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## VentureForth (Jul 16, 2020)

Thanks for merging my question with the existing thread. For some reason I couldn't find the other even though I searched.

Seems pretty stupid that Tampa and The central Carolinas are served 3 days in a row and not for 4 days in a row.

I wonder if the Silver Star will stop at Jesup, because it's actually on both routes but only serviced by the Meteor because of the demand and the timing.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 16, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> Thanks for merging my question with the existing thread. For some reason I couldn't find the other even though I searched.
> 
> Seems pretty stupid that Tampa and The central Carolinas are served 3 days in a row and not for 4 days in a row.
> 
> I wonder if the Silver Star will stop at Jesup, because it's actually on both routes but only serviced by the Meteor because of the demand and the timing.


Okeechobee is in the opposite situation (SS stops but not the SM) and it is my understanding both stops have been reduced to less than daily service rather than modifying the schedule.


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## railiner (Jul 17, 2020)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Okeechobee is in the opposite situation (SS stops but not the SM) and it is my understanding both stops have been reduced to less than daily service rather than modifying the schedule.


I really don't 'get' it...why that is...
It would only add a few minutes to the schedule to make those stops. Seems like they just took the 'easy way out', in that. Or maybe they are 'afraid' that once full service returns, they might be expected to continue those stops, but they certainly wouldn't have to, unless it made economic sense.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 17, 2020)

railiner said:


> I really don't 'get' it...why that is...
> It would only add a few minutes to the schedule to make those stops. Seems like they just took the 'easy way out', in that. Or maybe they are 'afraid' that once full service returns, they might be expected to continue those stops, but they certainly wouldn't have to, unless it made economic sense.


Personally I think they should be serviced by both trains even if they return to daily operation. As you said, it would only add a few minutes and would significantly increase the usefulness of Amtrak in those communities. I would also like to see the Silvers stop in Selma and Wilson, NC. Wilson especially seems to make sense, considering it's ridership is about the same as Rocky Mount and only has half as many trains. While both stations are already served by the Carolinian and Palmetto, they do not provide any service south of Savannah, same day connections towards Chicago or easy connections towards Boston. Even though it is served by many other trains, I also think the SS should stop in Fredericksburg considering the 100 mile gap between stations in a heavily populated region.


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## the_traveler (Jul 17, 2020)

Fredericksburg is similar. The SM stops at FBG, but the SS just goes on by. 

And the northbound SM is ”D” only at FBG and ALX - why? It would make sense from WAS north, since they have to switch the locomotive, but why 55 miles south and 2 stops before WAS?


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## RebelRider (Jul 18, 2020)

railiner said:


> I really don't 'get' it...why that is...
> It would only add a few minutes to the schedule to make those stops. Seems like they just took the 'easy way out', in that. Or maybe they are 'afraid' that once full service returns, they might be expected to continue those stops, but they certainly wouldn't have to, unless it made economic sense.



There is plenty of pad time already in the respective schedules to accommodate stops at OKE and JSP without loosing any time.



brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Personally I think they should be serviced by both trains even if they return to daily operation. As you said, it would only add a few minutes and would significantly increase the usefulness of Amtrak in those communities. I would also like to see the Silvers stop in Selma and Wilson, NC. Wilson especially seems to make sense, considering it's ridership is about the same as Rocky Mount and only has half as many trains. While both stations are already served by the Carolinian and Palmetto, they do not provide any service south of Savannah, same day connections towards Chicago or easy connections towards Boston. Even though it is served by many other trains, I also think the SS should stop in Fredericksburg considering the 100 mile gap between stations in a heavily populated region.





the_traveler said:


> Fredericksburg is similar. The SM stops at FBG, but the SS just goes on by.
> 
> And the northbound SM is ”D” only at FBG and ALX - why? It would make sense from WAS north, since they have to switch the locomotive, but why 55 miles south and 2 stops before WAS?



For FBG, WLN and SSM, trains 79 and 80 provide connections to/from 91/92 at RVR and RGH. On the days 92 misses 80, 92 will call at SSM, WLN and FBG if needed.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 19, 2020)

If there any publicly available data, on the percentage of passengers boarding/detraining at each of the stations along the SM and SS routes?

I was just thinking if there could be a purely business, and non political, review of the Silver routes.

Going on a slight tangent, I wish they allowed regular passengers on the Auto Train, as sort of an East Coast express service.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 19, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> If there any publicly available data, on the percentage of passengers boarding/detraining at each of the stations along the SM and SS routes?
> 
> I was just thinking if there could be a purely business, and non political, review of the Silver routes.
> 
> Going on a slight tangent, I wish they allowed regular passengers on the Auto Train, as sort of an East Coast express service.


The RPA has a data sheet for each route which lists ridership for each station. They are available at this link: Amtrak Ridership Statistics | Rail Passengers Association | Washington, DC


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## the_traveler (Jul 19, 2020)

RebelRider said:


> For FBG, WLN and SSM, trains 79 and 80 provide connections to/from 91/92 at RVR and RGH. On the days 92 misses 80, 92 will call at SSM, WLN and FBG if needed.


How would they know the “if needed”? You can’t make a reservation to or from there on the other train!


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## the_traveler (Jul 19, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Going on a slight tangent, I wish they allowed regular passengers on the Auto Train, as sort of an East Coast express service.


The only thing would be transportation to or from either Lorton or Sanford. The only way to get to or from the stations are by car. There are no trains or public transportation options.


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## me_little_me (Jul 19, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Going on a slight tangent, I wish they allowed regular passengers on the Auto Train, as sort of an East Coast express service.


Or at least a last minute (say 2 weeks) availability if seats/rooms are not taken by those with vehicles.


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## chrsjrcj (Jul 19, 2020)

The Auto Train isn't even necessarily faster. Winter Park to Alexandria on 97/98 is 16h 44m compared to 17h on the Auto Train over a shorter distance. Not to mention that Sanford and Lorton aren't large cities and have far less transit connections than Orlando and DC.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 19, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> How would they know the “if needed”? You can’t make a reservation to or from there on the other train!


The conductor on the train would know the schedule for the connecting train so can contact the other train if it appears the connection will be missed. For example, I was once on a 92 which was running about two hours late and there was a passenger bound for Wilson via a connection to 80. The conductors communicated with one another and determined to have 92 stop in Wilson rather than hold 80 for the connection.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 19, 2020)

the_traveler said:


> The only thing would be transportation to or from either Lorton or Sanford. The only way to get to or from the stations are by car. There are no trains or public transportation options.



I saw no taxis at either station so one would have to be called--if they would even care to get to the station. Lorton is truly a suburban area and Sanford's station is well off the beaten path for traffic that would not be mostly specific for the Amtrak Station.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 19, 2020)

chrsjrcj said:


> The Auto Train isn't even necessarily faster. Winter Park to Alexandria on 97/98 is 16h 44m compared to 17h on the Auto Train over a shorter distance. Not to mention that Sanford and Lorton aren't large cities and have far less transit connections than Orlando and DC.



I had not considered that the Silvers cover the same distance in less time (16m faster) even with all their local stops. I wonder why?

Expanding my though, I would envision a mini-Silver that would feed the North East, directly into Lorton. The mini-Silver would not need sleepers (Viewliners for sale!), as the over-night part of the trip would happen on the AT. The SunRail (or other rail) would support the Sanford station and Florida.

Though, maybe I am now into the Hub thread territory.


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## railiner (Jul 19, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I had not considered that the Silvers cover the same distance in less time (16m faster) even with all their local stops. I wonder why?
> 
> Expanding my though, I would envision a mini-Silver that would feed the North East, directly into Lorton. The mini-Silver would not need sleepers (Viewliners for sale!), as the over-night part of the trip would happen on the AT. The SunRail (or other rail) would support the Sanford station and Florida.
> 
> Though, maybe I am now into the Hub thread territory.


Why would anyone want to transfer twice between the northeast and south florida just to ride the Auto Train, which would not save them any time, probably cost more, and doesn't really offer anything notable as an enticement?


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## jiml (Jul 19, 2020)

railiner said:


> Auto Train, which would not save them any time, probably cost more, and doesn't really offer anything notable as an enticement?


Except real food.


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## west point (Jul 19, 2020)

Max speed auto train is 70 MPH. Silvers 79 MPH =That is some of the difference. Servicing stop at Florence seems to be longer than Meteor and Palmetto. Finally appears Amtrak want Auto Train to be on time or early for bragging rights.


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## Sauve850 (Jul 19, 2020)

Florence is the crew change I believe for Auto Train. Dont know if its the same for Meteor and Palmetto.


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## McIntyre2K7 (Jul 19, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> Thanks for merging my question with the existing thread. For some reason I couldn't find the other even though I searched.
> 
> Seems pretty stupid that Tampa and The central Carolinas are served 3 days in a row and not for 4 days in a row.
> 
> I wonder if the Silver Star will stop at Jesup, because it's actually on both routes but only serviced by the Meteor because of the demand and the timing.



If they want to give us a twice a day train from Tampa to Miami and Tampa to Orlando service I wouldn't mind..


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## railiner (Jul 19, 2020)

jiml said:


> Except real food.


Okay...but for one hot dinner, is it worth all that hassle?
It's a moot point anyway, because Amtrak simply does not want any passenger's on that train that are not 'attached' to an accompanying auto...


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 19, 2020)

jiml said:


> Except real food.



1 meal.


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## Tom in PA (Jul 20, 2020)

jiml said:


> Except real food.


The AT diners are pretty good!


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## Seaboard92 (Jul 20, 2020)

Sauve850 said:


> Florence is the crew change I believe for Auto Train. Dont know if its the same for Meteor and Palmetto.



It's a crew change for all three. 

Going north the Conductors go to Washington, DC, and Engineers go to Richmond, VA. Going south Conductors go to Jacksonville, FL I believe, and Engineers go to Savannah, GA.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 20, 2020)

Tom in PA said:


> The AT diners are pretty good!



I enjoyed my dinner and I enjoyed a very pleasant HH in the Lounge Car with a very competent and friendly LSA.


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## Qapla (Jul 20, 2020)

On more than one occasion I have seen the AT stopped in JAX ... not sure why -


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 20, 2020)

railiner said:


> Why would anyone want to transfer twice between the northeast and south florida just to ride the Auto Train, which would not save them any time, probably cost more, and doesn't really offer anything notable as an enticement?



Because it is better than walking?

I was just thinking of a way for cutting back on LD trains, without totally abandoning LD service. If Amtrak had just one "bulk" train covering the East Coast, the Auto Train seems like the logical choice. I was exploring possible answers to the questions of, how do I get to/from the NE and Lorton, and how do I get to/from mid/southern/west cost of Florida and Sanford. There might be other answers too.


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## VentureForth (Jul 21, 2020)

I tried to talk to a stain attendant to see if I could get any sort of close why they did the 4/3 schedule as opposed to every other day switching between the Silvers. I know station attendants aren't privy to corporate decisions, but I hoped he may have heard office gossip.

Nope. He just started going on about the efforts to defund Amtrak... 

Sigh


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## cocojacoby (Jul 21, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I was just thinking of a way for cutting back on LD trains, without totally abandoning LD service. If Amtrak had just one "bulk" train covering the East Coast, the Auto Train seems like the logical choice. I was exploring possible answers to the questions of, how do I get to/from the NE and Lorton, and how do I get to/from mid/southern/west cost of Florida and Sanford. There might be other answers too.



You want a one bulk train idea? Here you go:

Eliminate all of the Silver Service and the Auto Train. Add the autocarriers to the Capitol Limited. Open an auto loading terminal in the midwest somewhere (see Research - Florida tourist originating numbers). Run the Capitol Limited through D.C. and extend it to Florida splitting at Orlando with half going to Tampa and the other half to Miami. Make the busiest stops and add/remove car carriers at Lorton and Sanford.

Run a separate coach train between Miami and Tampa until Brightline comes on board. Provide easy across-the-platform transfer in D.C. from a NEC regional that provides through baggage service from Boston.

There's one bulk train for you.


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## railiner (Jul 21, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> You want a one bulk train idea? Here you go:
> 
> Eliminate all of the Silver Service and the Auto Train. Add the autocarriers to the Capitol Limited. Open an auto loading terminal in the midwest somewhere (see Research - Florida tourist originating numbers). Run the Capitol Limited through D.C. and extend it to Florida splitting at Orlando with half going to Tampa and the other half to Miami. Make the busiest stops and add/remove car carriers at Lorton and Sanford.
> 
> ...


Run auto carrier's thru Washington Union Station? Ouch!


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## cocojacoby (Jul 21, 2020)

railiner said:


> Run auto carrier's thru Washington Union Station? Ouch!



Where's your sense of adventure?


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## RichieRich (Jul 21, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> You want a one bulk train idea? Here you go:
> Eliminate all of the Silver Service and the Auto Train. Add the autocarriers to the Capitol Limited. Open an auto loading terminal in the midwest somewhere ...


You've watched one too many episodes of *Snowpiercer *


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## Seaboard92 (Jul 21, 2020)

railiner said:


> Run auto carrier's thru Washington Union Station? Ouch!



It actually isn't hard to avoid Union Station. You turn north at Ivy City onto the Camden line just south of Riverdale. And CSX just upped the clearance on that line.


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## Exvalley (Jul 21, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> It actually isn't hard to avoid Union Station. You turn north at Ivy City onto the Camden line just south of Riverdale. And CSX just upped the clearance on that line.


Do the passengers traveling to Washington, DC get a vote?


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## joelkfla (Jul 21, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> Run a separate coach train between Miami and Tampa until Brightline comes on board.


That's nearly forever. Service to Orlando is at least 2 years out. The extension to Tampa is still "under discussion."


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## me_little_me (Jul 21, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> That's nearly forever. Service to Orlando is at least 2 years out. The extension to Tampa is still "under discussion."


But isn't that what Amtrak has been pushing? More coach trains and fewer LDs. Yet, when they have an opportunity to run the two Silvers such that no more than one runs once a day, they make no attempt to keep that part of the Star busy with coach runs on the days it doesn't run to give Tampa-Miami and possibly Tampa-Orlando a train that will have fewer chances of delays and that could "prove" their point that overnight LD is not needed and that daytime coach can replace it. Wasn't that Anderson's dream?
And if Brightline never comes through, possibly that route can be developed into something more particularly if a future Florida governor come up with some bucks to build tracks to divert that train to stop at WDW. I would think Anderson could be foaming at the mouth saying "What if the virus had come earlier when I was president?"


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 21, 2020)

It would be possible for brightline to operate trains from Orlando to Tampa on existing right of way correct?

Like if the state wanted to make it happen...


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jul 21, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> But isn't that what Amtrak has been pushing? More coach trains and fewer LDs. Yet, when they have an opportunity to run the two Silvers such that no more than one runs once a day, they make no attempt to keep that part of the Star busy with coach runs on the days it doesn't run to give Tampa-Miami and possibly Tampa-Orlando a train that will have fewer chances of delays and that could "prove" their point that overnight LD is not needed and that daytime coach can replace it. Wasn't that Anderson's dream?
> And if Brightline never comes through, possibly that route can be developed into something more particularly if a future Florida governor come up with some bucks to build tracks to divert that train to stop at WDW. I would think Anderson could be foaming at the mouth saying "What if the virus had come earlier when I was president?"


It's not as simple as just running a shorter route. As such a route would be under 750 miles, state funding would be necessary. In addition, servicing facilities would need to be available at the terminals. If Amtrak is honestly cutting back frequencies to save money, then such a train would still not be profitable so introducing a new corridor train wouldn't make sense in the current conditions. Even if you believe the cuts are part of a plan to eliminate or downsize the LD network, now would still not be the time to introduce new corridor routes, as they would be unlikely to prove successful until ridership picks up again.


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## Qapla (Jul 22, 2020)

A train running between Tampa and Miami could run in both directions in a single day - about 6 hours each way. They already have service facilities in Miami and the train already turns in Tampa using a wye - it would not need service at both ends.

Funding and scheduling with the freights may be more of a problem ...


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## cocojacoby (Jul 22, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It would be possible for brightline to operate trains from Orlando to Tampa on existing right of way correct?
> 
> Like if the state wanted to make it happen...



Possible but not from their Airport Station so the line would not be connected.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 22, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> Possible but not from their Airport Station so the line would not be connected.



The airport station won’t connect to any other rail lines? I guess it wouldn’t need to...


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## west point (Jul 22, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> The airport station won’t connect to any other rail lines? I guess it wouldn’t need to...


That will not be correct for the future however it is not now connected until the rail connection is made to the power plant spur. It is all in the construction plans for the Brightline servicing facility.


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## west point (Jul 22, 2020)

Here is link to Brightline's track plans for Orlando airport. Note some rail has been place in the airport terminal how much is unknown.





__





Orlando Bright Line Station - Bing images







www.bing.com


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## me_little_me (Jul 22, 2020)

Qapla said:


> Funding and scheduling with the freights may be more of a problem ...


Well, if the ShortStar left Miami at the same time as the Star (but on the days the NB Star didn't run, and returned on the days when the SB Star didn't run, there would be no freight issue as Amtrak had that slot anyway. And the freight company (CSX? NS?) should be happy to have a Star running southbound that should never be late due to delays further north.
If Amtrak called it a "test train" or some-such nonsense, they could fund it themselves. After all, there should be plenty of coach cars and P42s idled from the Star not running those days. Heck, one P42 and two coaches would be all they need initially.
I'm so brilliant, I should work for Amtrak. Hey, I could replace Flynn! Wow! Then I could not travel on Amtrak LD trains just like Flynn and spend more time coming up with crazier ideas than they have.


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## joelkfla (Jul 22, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It would be possible for brightline to operate trains from Orlando to Tampa on existing right of way correct?
> 
> Like if the state wanted to make it happen...


Brightline is a profit-making enterprise (or hopes to be, some fday.) Running a slow train once or twice a day on shared track is not their operating model.

And the State of Florida is not likely to subsidize anything. It's a different governor, but the same Republican establishment that shot down HSR between Orlando & Tampa several years ago, even though construction would have been paid for by the Federal government, because they were afraid of having to contribute to operating expenses. They're embracing Brightline only because no state funding is involved.


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## lostcat (Jul 22, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> But isn't that what Amtrak has been pushing? More coach trains and fewer LDs. Yet, when they have an opportunity to run the two Silvers such that no more than one runs once a day, they make no attempt to keep that part of the Star busy with coach runs on the days it doesn't run to give Tampa-Miami and possibly Tampa-Orlando a train that will have fewer chances of delays and that could "prove" their point that overnight LD is not needed and that daytime coach can replace it. Wasn't that Anderson's dream?
> And if Brightline never comes through, possibly that route can be developed into something more particularly if a future Florida governor come up with some bucks to build tracks to divert that train to stop at WDW. I would think Anderson could be foaming at the mouth saying "What if the virus had come earlier when I was president?"


A short term solution is to run both silver trains on the same schedule south of Savanna via Tampa. An 8pm arrival in Miami would also permit a same day connection from Boston for both trains. Northbound, an 8-10am departure gets into NYP in time to connect north.


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## Qapla (Jul 22, 2020)

The problem with the Silver schedules is not only a Florida problem - it also impacts North Carolina. They should have just left it the way it was!


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 22, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> Brightline is a profit-making enterprise (or hopes to be, some fday.) Running a slow train once or twice a day on shared track is not their operating model.



I was suggesting a multiple train a day corridor.... I remember most of that track being in good shape with lots of 79 mph running.


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## joelkfla (Jul 22, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I was suggesting a multiple train a day corridor.... I remember most of that track being in good shape with lots of 79 mph running.


I believe Brightline's plans are to lay new track designed for 125 mph on the main stretch, same as the track between Cocoa & Orlando. Current schedule on the Star is 2 hours from Orlando to Tampa, and seems to run at least 15 minutes late about half the time; that probably would not attract enough traffic to make it worth their while.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 22, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> I believe Brightline's plans are to lay new track designed for 125 mph on the main stretch, same as the track between Cocoa & Orlando. Current schedule on the Star is 2 hours from Orlando to Tampa, and seems to run at least 15 minutes late about half the time; that probably would not attract enough traffic to make it worth their while.



What I was suggesting... since Amtrak isn't running Orlando to Tampa daily... maybe Brightline could run a daily train.. perhaps even multiple trips daily. Of course Sunrail could do that too I suppose. 

2 hours between Orlando to Tampa seems very reasonable to me. Of course.. I've used the Star for just that purpose.


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## McIntyre2K7 (Jul 23, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> Brightline is a profit-making enterprise (or hopes to be, some fday.) Running a slow train once or twice a day on shared track is not their operating model.
> 
> And the State of Florida is not likely to subsidize anything. It's a different governor, but the same Republican establishment that shot down HSR between Orlando & Tampa several years ago, even though construction would have been paid for by the Federal government, because they were afraid of having to contribute to operating expenses. They're embracing Brightline only because no state funding is involved.



Correct however I think they plan on making a good chunk of money with real estate around their stations. FYI The Florida Governor that turned down the HSR between Tampa to Orlando has investments in Brightline. The crazy thing is the people here voted him to become a senator. Dude was apart of the biggest medicare fraud in history.


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## gacattrak(retired) (Jul 23, 2020)

Trying to build the snowballs into a snowman here.
Based on what I believe I have read or heard in the past.
Trains 91 and 92 go through Columbia because the senior Senator said so. Slow and shaky, just like him.
The Silver Service reschedule is a knee jerk reaction to the Covid issue.
The de-bathrooming of the roomette units is an politico-engineering attempt to enable the removal of some cleaning and maintenance crew-persons. Speeding repairs and turnaround is just a side benefit.
The Autotrain car carriers couldn't fit through the Baltimore tunnel in the past and probably still can't without scraping the paint.
The Autotrain terminal in Louisville, KY was the "best" location to place a Chicago servicing Autotrain terminal.
The best way to "save" Amtrak would be to sell it to Bill Gates and let him run it as a public service/full sized toy train set. Think of the tax write offs!!!
Nationalize all the mainline rails, give them to Elon Musk to keep them upgraded to max speed and let Amtrak use them free (more tax write offs).


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## cocojacoby (Jul 23, 2020)

The only multimillionaire who seems interested in rail is Richard Branson and he is already involved.


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## chrsjrcj (Jul 23, 2020)

Eh...I think Branson is more interested in making a profit, investing in Brightline is just a means to a way. That said, based off interviews it does seem that Fortress founder Wes Edens may have an interest in passenger trains.


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## railiner (Jul 23, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> The only multimillionaire who seems interested in rail is Richard Branson and he is already involved.


Uhh...ever hear of Warren Buffet?


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## John Bredin (Jul 23, 2020)

gacattrak(retired) said:


> The best way to "save" Amtrak would be to sell it to Bill Gates and let him run it as a public service/full sized toy train set. Think of the tax write offs!!!
> Nationalize all the mainline rails, give them to Elon Musk to keep them upgraded to max speed and let Amtrak use them free (more tax write offs).


Bill Gates, possibly. Elon Musk definitely not, as he's anti-rail. He promoted Hyperloop as an alternative to (as he put it) slow, old-fashioned high-speed rail, even though the capsules could hold only a fraction of the passenger load of a modern train. And his Boring Company plan/idea is to run either capsules (again!) or private cars mounted on sleds (?!) in his gee-whiz tunnels because, again, he thinks nobody will ride a train to or from an airport.


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## siena1965 (Jul 23, 2020)

i just the price for the train nyp to orl there have rised the prices again. no one will travel ny to fla if they dont stop rising the price every week. i use to travel a few times a year for under 15000 points one way now it almost 19000 point. rise the price and that got cheaper food.


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## joelkfla (Jul 23, 2020)

chrsjrcj said:


> Eh...I think Branson is more interested in making a profit, investing in Brightline is just a means to a way. That said, based off interviews it does seem that Fortress founder Wes Edens may have an interest in passenger trains.


I just read somewhere that Branson said he has _not _invested in Brightline. The rebranding is just a marketing agreement (not sure exactly what that means, I not being a Business major.)


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## McIntyre2K7 (Jul 24, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> What I was suggesting... since Amtrak isn't running Orlando to Tampa daily... maybe Brightline could run a daily train.. perhaps even multiple trips daily. Of course Sunrail could do that too I suppose.
> 
> 2 hours between Orlando to Tampa seems very reasonable to me. Of course.. I've used the Star for just that purpose.



I think the Brightline trains between Tampa/Orlando/Miami would run hourly. However I wouldn't mind seeing the Sun Rail get extended to Tampa. I don't know if Hillsborough and Polk County leaders would agree to it. Basically you would have stops in Lakeland and Tampa. You can add a stop in Plant City as well. There is a state senator that wants to see Sun Rail's line extended to Lakeland. If they could build a line between Haines City and Lake Wales then they could have the sun rail turn south and have it stop in Lake Wales and Winter Haven before going to Lakeland and Tampa.


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## cocojacoby (Jul 24, 2020)

railiner said:


> Uhh...ever hear of Warren Buffet?



Got it, but we are discussing passenger rail here, Mr. railiner (i.e., people moving). So . . . 

Anyway, Mr. Buffet paid me cash to go away when he took over BNSF. They didn't even give stockholders a choice or else I would probably still have stock in it.


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## railiner (Jul 24, 2020)

cocojacoby said:


> Got it, but we are discussing passenger rail here, Mr. railiner (i.e., people moving). So . . .
> 
> Anyway, Mr. Buffet paid me cash to go away when he took over BNSF. They didn't even give stockholders a choice or else I would probably still have stock in it.


Berkshire Hathaway stock is on the market....
Class 'A' is currently _only_ $291,621.00 per share...
Class 'B' is 194.52 per share.


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## IndyLions (Jul 24, 2020)

siena1965 said:


> i just the price for the train nyp to orl there have rised the prices again. no one will travel ny to fla if they dont stop rising the price every week. i use to travel a few times a year for under 15000 points one way now it almost 19000 point. rise the price and that got cheaper food.



I just booked an (intentionally) roundabout trip Boston - Crawfordsville IN. Crawfordsville (CRF) is the first stop west of Indianapolis.

The routing is BOS-NYP on Acela in BC, NYP-Charlottesville (CVS) in a Crescent Roomette, then CVS-CRF in a Cardinal Roomette. Less than $500, which I thought was a fair price. In past years just the Cardinal portion of the trip could be more than that.

I REALLY wish they still had the Night Owl, although connecting with the Cardinal’s schedule would have been tricky.


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## jruff001 (Jul 29, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> I had not considered that the Silvers cover the same distance in less time (16m faster) even with all their local stops. I wonder why?


The AT has a TON of schedule padding.

Yes I know all Amtrak trains have padding, but I have seen the AT arrive at its endpoints over an hour early.


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## Palmland (Aug 17, 2020)

I travel a couple times a year on the Palmetto between Florence, SC and Richmond. Up on Friday, back on Sunday. Those are extremely popular travel days with the Palmetto usually picking up half a coach load in Florence and many more in NC stations plus a huge crowd in RVR. That trip is no longer possible with the tri-weekly service Oct. 1. That is so dumb. The Palmetto is more like a regional train than true LD, at least for SC, NC and VA. It does empty out south of Florence. So why not operate it daily Florence-Ricmond? The cost for the crew that does a RT Florence-Savannah would be saved with much less loss of revenue. Admittedly, my comments are self serving!


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## Seaboard92 (Aug 17, 2020)

The Palmetto does brisk weekend business I agree both with people going north on Friday and south on Sundays. But also the other way it's packed with people from the northeast going to the south. It's actually so busy I try and shift my travel patterns to go on a day with a lighter load by going on Monday to go north.


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## Palmland (Aug 19, 2020)

I think historically, perhaps going back to the northern migration in the 60's, daytime service into the Carolins has done well. There is a reason why there are still three LD trains on this route. Certainly the change from primarily a winter seasonal service to Florida points to year round with the start of the theme parks in the 70's also contributed. Amtrak seems intent on forgetting those lessons and those families that always take the train to see relatives may at last stop considering Amtrak as a travel option. 

While it's not going to happen in SC, perhaps rail friendly NC and VA will influence Amtrak to change their plans.


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## VentureForth (Sep 8, 2020)

McIntyre2K7 said:


> Correct however I think they plan on making a good chunk of money with real estate around their stations. FYI The Florida Governor that turned down the HSR between Tampa to Orlando has investments in Brightline. The crazy thing is the people here voted him to become a senator. Dude was apart of the biggest medicare fraud in history.


No, not correct. He was afraid of sticking operating losses to the taxpayers, because they were protected to be huge. Invested in Brightline because that is what you do - invest in private enterprise, taking a fiduciary RISK with your own money. Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better than government when there is a chance for profit.


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## tricia (Sep 8, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> .... Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better than government when there is a chance for profit.



I call BS on this. For just one example, consider the sizable armies of workers employed by private-enterprise health insurance companies to seek ways to deny claims--and the similar amount of worker hours on the other side, trying to get health-care providers paid for work they've already done. IIRC, they add something like 1/3 to the cost of health care in the US. Although Medicare is far from a perfect role model, it's vastly more efficient than that.


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## joelkfla (Sep 8, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> No, not correct. He was afraid of sticking operating losses to the taxpayers, because they were protected to be huge. Invested in Brightline because that is what you do - invest in private enterprise, taking a fiduciary RISK with your own money. Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better than government when there is a chance for profit.


So ... what specifically is not correct?


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## McIntyre2K7 (Sep 8, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> No, not correct. He was afraid of sticking operating losses to the taxpayers, because they were protected to be huge. Invested in Brightline because that is what you do - invest in private enterprise, taking a fiduciary RISK with your own money. Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better than government when there is a chance for profit.



Yes, I am correct. 

Brighline's plan includes real estate around it's stations:

Quote from the article which can be at this link 
_
Fortress investors seem poised to make a bundle on its Florida real estate, leading some observers to wonder if the private equity firm is just using its rail operation to increase the value of its property deals. Last year, for instance, the Fortress-sponsored development company sold the ground-floor retail space at Miami Central Station and two nearby office building for $159 million. _

The FDOT study that came out a few months after Rick rejected funds said the line would have been profitable:

From the study:

According to the findings, the $2.7-billion system would have generated $62.9 million in revenue in 2015, its first year of operation, along with an estimated $10.24 million in profit. By its 10th year of operation, the latest estimates indicated $91.75 million in revenue and $28.6 million in profit.


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## VentureForth (Sep 9, 2020)

Yeah. So the railroad is the loss leader for real estate development. That's how railroads are profitable in Japan. Government shouldn't be in the business of running failing businesses.


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## tricia (Sep 9, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> Government shouldn't be in the business of running failing businesses.



Government should be in the business of running successful public services.


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## Qapla (Sep 9, 2020)

tricia said:


> Government should be in the business of running successful public services.



And what makes a "public service" successful?


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## tricia (Sep 9, 2020)

Qapla said:


> And what makes a "public service" successful?



Off the top of my head: Accomplishes its publicly stated purpose at a reasonable cost.
Obviously, the devil's in the details of that.


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## Siegmund (Sep 9, 2020)

VentureForth said:


> Private enterprise ALWAYS does it better than government when there is a chance for profit.



As Bill Clinton would say, it comes down to what "it" means.

Private enterprise is very good at maximizing its own profit when allowed to do so. By any means possible, including pocketing government handouts, minimizing safety and maintenance expenditures, and squeezing every penny it can out of the paying customers.

Problem is, maximizing profit very rarely coincides with minimizing pollution, minimizing accidental deaths, or even maximizing number of customers served (its often better for the bottom line to jack up fares and artificially limit the number of seats, than increase service when the plane is full - lots of similar examples with everything from cell service to network speed to how private contractors (mis)manage hotels and campgrounds in national parks.)


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## chrsjrcj (Sep 11, 2020)

Amtrak has released their July 2020 performance report and we get our first look at the Silvers since service was reduced on July 6th. And results are as expected. Every long distance route saw a decent increase in ridership (most in the 20% to 30% range) from June to July except for the Silver Star (-18%), Silver Meteor (-3%), and Auto Train (-19%). Not sure why the Auto Train dropped so much (Hurricane Isaias canceled some service the first week of August).

And no, these weren't seasonal factors. I checked June 2019 vs July 2019 and the Silver Star and Silver Meteor saw an increase of 14% and 15% respectively, while the Auto Train saw an increase of 10%.

Here are my calculations based off Amtrak's monthly performance report:


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## McIntyre2K7 (Sep 11, 2020)

chrsjrcj said:


> Not sure why the Auto Train dropped so much (Hurricane Isaias canceled some service the first week of August).



I wonder if some of the people who would have used the Auto Train just decided to fly due to cheap flights. I know Jet Blue had really cheap flights out of the northeast to Orlando International ( From Newark $28 RT, From Philadelphia $32 RT). I guess spending 2 to 3 hours on a plane and renting a car in Orlando would be cheaper than just using the auto train if flights are that cheap.


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## Qapla (Sep 11, 2020)

More likely many that would have used the AT just decided to stay home rather than risk any travel


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## niemi24s (Sep 11, 2020)

chrsjrcj said:


> Here are my calculations based off Amtrak's monthly performance report:


Thanks for taking the time to create and post that chart. It's refreshing to see some meaningful data.....

.....rather that the customary blather seen on this board in lieu of it.


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## Dakota 400 (Sep 11, 2020)

Qapla said:


> More likely many that would have used the AT just decided to stay home rather than risk any travel



The chart is quite interesting. 

I think your explanation is rather likely.


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## joelkfla (Sep 12, 2020)

chrsjrcj said:


> Amtrak has released their July 2020 performance report and we get our first look at the Silvers since service was reduced on July 6th. And results are as expected. Every long distance route saw a decent increase in ridership (most in the 20% to 30% range) from June to July except for the Silver Star (-18%), Silver Meteor (-3%), and Auto Train (-19%). Not sure why the Auto Train dropped so much (Hurricane Isaias canceled some service the first week of August).
> 
> And no, these weren't seasonal factors. I checked June 2019 vs July 2019 and the Silver Star and Silver Meteor saw an increase of 14% and 15% respectively, while the Auto Train saw an increase of 10%.
> 
> ...


COVID cases were surging in FL from mid June thru July. NY started requiring self-quarantine of persons traveling from FL on 6/19. Not sure about the timing in states adjoining NY, but I think it was around the same time.


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## Qapla (Sep 12, 2020)

I would imagine that the imposed quarantine when going north and the rampant numbers of C-19 going south it would have an impact on any/all transportation methods between NY and Florida ... including the Silvers and the AT


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## railiner (Sep 12, 2020)

Qapla said:


> I would imagine that the imposed quarantine when going north and the rampant numbers of C-19 going south it would have an impact on any/all transportation methods between NY and Florida ... including the Silvers and the AT


It sure has impacted me...I haven't been to my Queens apartment since January 4th.


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## McIntyre2K7 (Sep 12, 2020)

Qapla said:


> I would imagine that the imposed quarantine when going north and the rampant numbers of C-19 going south it would have an impact on any/all transportation methods between NY and Florida ... including the Silvers and the AT



I think a lot of people got around that imposed quarantine by flying to DC/PHI/BOS and then taking another form of transportation to NY/NJ/CT areas.


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## Ollie12 (Sep 13, 2020)

It's a shame Brightline couldn't step in and run a train from Miami Central to Tampa (even via Orlando) running along the Florida East Coast line to West Palm Beach (so serving its stations in FLL and West Palm Beach) then jumping across onto CSX to Tampa / Orlando - it'd prove demand for them as well on the MIA - MCO leg.


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## railiner (Sep 13, 2020)

Ollie12 said:


> It's a shame Brightline couldn't step in and run a train from Miami Central to Tampa (even via Orlando) running along the Florida East Coast line to West Palm Beach (so serving its stations in FLL and West Palm Beach) then jumping across onto CSX to Tampa / Orlando - it'd prove demand for them as well on the MIA - MCO leg.


Brightline is not going to operate over Amtrak operated routes. And currently, it's not even running on its core Miami-West Palm Beach route...


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## Palmetto (Sep 13, 2020)

Ollie12 said:


> It's a shame Brightline couldn't step in and run a train from Miami Central to Tampa (even via Orlando) running along the Florida East Coast line to West Palm Beach (so serving its stations in FLL and West Palm Beach) then jumping across onto CSX to Tampa / Orlando - it'd prove demand for them as well on the MIA - MCO leg.



There's a plan for them to get to Tampa eventually, but it's going to be via Orlando and their own right-of-way down the median of I-4. There's also talk about going up to Jacksonville eventually.


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## Qapla (Sep 13, 2020)

Since there is a wye in Jacksonville and the train already turns in Tampa and Miami, maybe they should run a train between those three cities in Florida daily while they are running this odd schedule from Miami to NY

It could even be a "coach only" train - perhaps ...


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## neroden (Sep 15, 2020)

Siegmund said:


> As Bill Clinton would say, it comes down to what "it" means.
> 
> Private enterprise is very good at maximizing its own profit when allowed to do so. By any means possible, including pocketing government handouts, minimizing safety and maintenance expenditures, and squeezing every penny it can out of the paying customers.
> 
> Problem is, maximizing profit very rarely coincides with minimizing pollution, minimizing accidental deaths, or even maximizing number of customers served (its often better for the bottom line to jack up fares and artificially limit the number of seats, than increase service when the plane is full - lots of similar examples with everything from cell service to network speed to how private contractors (mis)manage hotels and campgrounds in national parks.)



I should probably share the history of how, in the 19th century, the town I live in had a private for-profit water system. It spread a cholera epidemic. 

The system was taken over by government as a public service after the cholera epidemic. We haven't had a single cholera epidemic since then -- in fact our city water regularly wins national water quality awards.

Yes, government is much, much better at accomplishing some things than profiteers are. Especially when the profiteers have an incentive to endanger the public for profit.


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## west point (Sep 17, 2020)

Atlanta privitized its water system. Took about 5 years and city had to take it over for poor service. Took couple years to clean up billings, delayed repairs, water quality, etc.


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## VentureForth (Mar 2, 2021)

Any word or ideas on when the Silvers could return to daily service? I would think that would precede the easing of physically distanced seating...


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## IndyLions (Mar 2, 2021)

VentureForth said:


> Any word or ideas on when the Silvers could return to daily service? I would think that would precede the easing of physically distanced seating...


It’s all about the stimulus. If that passes in a timely fashion, I’m guessing June. If it doesn’t, then it probably won’t happen for a long time - maybe not this year.

Sorry for the total lack of certainty in my answer. But honestly, I think that’s probably the best answer right now.


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## McIntyre2K7 (Mar 2, 2021)

redacted


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## niemi24s (Mar 2, 2021)

This seems as good a thread as any to point out this little error in the Silver Service Covid timetable:


C'mon daily service!!


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