# How would you feed your train?



## Brian Battuello (Dec 29, 2021)

Your Amtrak train is running 24 hours late approaching Gallup, New Mexico. Your holiday crowd of 300 coach and 90 sleeping car passengers are hungry. The last can of Amstew has been opened. 

Who would *you* call to cater the train, and what would you order? You have a reasonable amount of lead time and budget. Can you make everyone happy?


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## Maglev (Dec 29, 2021)

There may or may not be facilities for catering nearby, and if the delay is weather related, these facilities may face staffing problems also. You just have to go with what's available. I didn't do a Google search, but that resource might not be usable by those on the stranded train due to cell phone problems.


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## crescent-zephyr (Dec 29, 2021)

There’s a stand alone subway in Gallup.... probably the best best. Buy lots of box lunches. 

There’s also a KFC. They do lots of family size meals.

Also a Panda Express and a Cracker Barrel.


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## BCL (Dec 29, 2021)

There's got to be a place that does tamales. Maybe several like a "tamale lady". I found some place called Erlinda's Tamale Shop in Gallup. Not sure if they could do that kind of volume though. It might take a concerted effort and I'm not sure that a shop would necessarily have enough ingredients in stock and available to put that out in an afternoon.

What's the closest Costco? I looked it up and there's one in Albuquerque. A big truck could haul everything, and there's bound to be something there that could feed 400 people. I assume that all of that could be heated on the train.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 29, 2021)

I like the tamale idea. My college frat would order a pony keg of Lone Star and a five gallon can of tamales. The can was tightly packed and so hot you needed gloves to carry it. Instant party!

Other ideas? How about a giant wine/cheese/salami spread in the diner? Invite people a car at a time. Schmooze or take a plate back to your seat.


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## Cal (Dec 29, 2021)

I would probably go with the subway option with basic sandwiches, maybe order three types of sandwiches in bulk along with water and chips. Then just go around and pass them out. Also see if it’d be possible to get some things in the diner so the crew can do breakfast in the morning.


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 29, 2021)

Cal said:


> I would probably go with the subway option with basic sandwiches, maybe order three types of sandwiches in bulk along with water and chips.



Don't forget the Subway cookies! 

Maybe have someone swing by and pick up some fruit trays for the vegans/allergies.

How about pizza? Many pizza places can make small personal pies. I'd go with the meat lover's special, but probably should stick with cheese, mushroom and pepperoni singles. Could get a few with no cheese. Would go well with a few cases of Coke and/or beer.

I once had a large sausage and mushroom delivered to the train in Reno, back in the pre-internet/pre-cell phone days. Took some coordination ahead of time.


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## crescent-zephyr (Dec 29, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Maybe have someone swing by and pick up some fruit trays for the vegans/allergies.



Subway has vegan and allergen options. If we are talking about a quick fix there won’t be “someone to to swing by”


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## McIntyre2K7 (Dec 29, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Your Amtrak train is running 24 hours late approaching Gallup, New Mexico. Your holiday crowd of 300 coach and 90 sleeping car passengers are hungry. The last can of Amstew has been opened.
> 
> Who would *you* call to cater the train, and what would you order? You have a reasonable amount of lead time and budget. Can you make everyone happy?



Easy. I would do a Walmart Grocery Delivery to the station since it's a short drive. 








Dinner Menu:

Tacos (Beef, Chicken or Pork)
Chicken Enchilada 
Smothered Burritos (Beef or Chicken)
Cilantro - Lime Rice
Black Bean Soup
Black Bean Tostadas 
Corn
Quesadillas (Beef, Chicken or Cheese) 
Vegan Burrito Bowl


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## Qapla (Dec 29, 2021)

A mixture of Subway and Papa John's pizza

Both nearby


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 29, 2021)

McIntyre2K7 said:


> Dinner Menu:
> 
> Tacos (Beef, Chicken or Pork)
> Chicken Enchilada
> ...



Love it!


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 29, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Your holiday crowd of 300 coach and 90 sleeping car passengers are hungry.


Feeding this many people is likely to exceed what a typical fast food restaurant can handle without some advance warning. Fried chicken, chain pizza, and Chinese restaurants can fill orders quickly once they get going but I would still expect a delay unless the order was spread across multiple vendors.


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## Maglev (Dec 29, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Your holiday crowd of 300 coach and 90 sleeping car passengers are hungry.



That's more than six four Superliner coaches packed to the gills. I don't think Amtrak has ever often seen that many passengers or coaches on a Western long-distance train.

edited: basic math error


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## Cal (Dec 29, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Don't forget the Subway cookies!
> 
> Maybe have someone swing by and pick up some fruit trays for the vegans/allergies.
> 
> ...


I think sticking to water instead of soda, and of course beer, would be better. Everyone can and will drink water, some might not want to drink soda


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 29, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Feeding this many people is likely to exceed what a typical fast food restaurant can handle without some advance warning. Fried chicken, chain pizza, and Chinese restaurants can fill orders quickly once they get going but I would still expect a delay unless the order was spread across multiple vendors.


I agree. I'd say they should wait for Albuquerque because Gallup probably wouldn't have the resources for 400 instant dinners. 

People talk about getting KFC, etc. for emergency rations are probably on a smaller train.


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## Ziv (Dec 29, 2021)

That sounds better than Flex Dining!



McIntyre2K7 said:


> Easy. I would do a Walmart Grocery Delivery to the station since it's a short drive.
> 
> 
> View attachment 26536
> ...


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## Asher (Dec 29, 2021)

Your running 24 hrs late
Who would *you* call to cater the train, and what would you order? You have a reasonable amount of lead time and budget. Can you make everyone happy?

24 hrs late. Hungry, stopped in Gallup. We have some pissed off travelers


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## TinCan782 (Dec 29, 2021)

A light-hearted look at the food situation from Don Imus...
*1200 Hamburgers To Go*


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## PVD (Dec 29, 2021)

I have that album


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 29, 2021)

Whenever this thread pops up I look at the title and think "with diesel, duh."  
Then I remember a certain video by Danny Harmon with a man named Walter.



Hope you're enjoying a nice retirement somewhere Walter.


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## crescent-zephyr (Dec 29, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> People talk about getting KFC, etc. for emergency rations are probably on a smaller train.



What smaller train?


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## MARC Rider (Dec 30, 2021)

As I wrote on another thread -- use MREs! If they're good enough for our service personnel putting their lives on the line for their country, they're good enough for Amtrak passengers in an emergency. 

The baggage car is usually not very full, they could fill it with cases of the stuff, and could hand them out as needed. No calling around at the last minute, no worries about food preparation, the passengers can just heat and eat at their seat.

And MREs come in vegetarian, kosher and halal varieties. And maybe for sleeper passengers, they could stock French combat field ration packs, which are supposed to have better food than the American ones.


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## ehbowen (Dec 30, 2021)

THIS is how I'd feed my train:


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## Brian Battuello (Dec 30, 2021)

I think we have a winner!


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## TaseMeBro (Dec 30, 2021)

Given that our theoretical train is outside of Gallup, NM..

I'd start with green chile stew and sopapillas (indian fry bread). Both are very very easy to prepare and serve in bulk (they're common to serve around potlucks and holidays).

They take very little to prepare in terms of kitchen equipment -a caterer or even a community center could be sput up and making them with minimal ingredients very quickly. In Gallup, any New Mexican restaurant or caterer makes these in bulk, probably daily.

They transport easily - the fry bread can be wrapped in foil, which makes for very minimal waste disposal bulk. The green chile stew can go in foam cups with lids - which any retaurant supply will have on hand. And the cups can easily be crushed/nested, again to make waste disposal easier.

Lastly, green chile stew and sopapillas are warm, often vegetarian if not vegan, tasty, and consitute a main course+dessert, or main+snack for later.

Oh, and they're both cheap.


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## alpha3 (Dec 30, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> How were they stuck? Did the runways close? Were all other aircraft in use? Did all the pilots strike?


If your question is serious, the issue was the UAL plane landed Goose Bay with a medical emergency, then went tech. UA had to send out a rescue plane......later...


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## 20th Century Rider (Dec 30, 2021)

TinCan782 said:


> A light-hearted look at the food situation from Don Imus...
> *1200 Hamburgers To Go*



So why did the guy hang up?


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 30, 2021)

alpha3 said:


> If your question is serious, the issue was the UAL plane landed Goose Bay with a medical emergency, then went tech. UA had to send out a rescue plane......later...


I have no problem with the flight terminating in Goose Bay for medical or technical problems. The issue is what happened afterward. One of the largest airlines in the world should be capable of ferrying a replacement aircraft to either continue the trip or bring passengers back in a much more timely fashion. United has more than one Goose Bay fiasco (see below) but if you love Amtrak's service standards then United seems to be cut from the same cloth.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/united-179-goose-bay-1.4985858


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 30, 2021)

The title of this thread wants me to answer thusly.
I would put a nozzle, linked to a fuel truck, into the fuel port if my train was pulled by a diesel engine.


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## pennyk (Dec 30, 2021)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please note that this thread is specific to the circumstances and location provided by the OP in the first post (Gallop NM). Please keep your responses related to the questions proposed by the OP. Discussion of general food issues on delayed trains is discussed in another thread.

A few posts have been moved to the general food issues thread. Thank you for your cooperation.






Food suggestions on delayed trains


I've had the Amstew. If it isn't Dinty Moore, it is pretty close. I've had far worse chow in the army (MRE, anyone?). Warm and reasonably filling. I've also pulled into Flagstaff xxx hours late. There was a pickup truck with about 300 boxes of KFC and a few cases of Coke. The attendants...




www.amtraktrains.com


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## BCL (Dec 30, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Feeding this many people is likely to exceed what a typical fast food restaurant can handle without some advance warning. Fried chicken, chain pizza, and Chinese restaurants can fill orders quickly once they get going but I would still expect a delay unless the order was spread across multiple vendors.


I think most would be surprised what a typical fast food restaurant could do with enough prep time. Mostly what they have is frozen so it's relatively easy to take out of the freezer. It might be more interesting if it's a place that doesn't freeze its meat. There was what used to be the world's biggest McDoonald's on I-15 on the way to Las Vegas. They would have entire tour buses stopping there to/from LA and they did a massive volume. Not sure why they closed down. Once I was a with a group (long story) that included over 100 people including kids, adult chaperones, and leaders. We ended up stopping at a McDonald's (and not a particularly big one) without any prior notice and while it took a while they were able to handle us in less than a half hour.

But for a place like Gallup, it might be possible for several places to be called up.


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## BCL (Dec 30, 2021)

I'd think maybe they would take requests from passengers and someone makes a command decisions.

And how would it work? Could they charge anyone for it if it's not something on the menu with a listed price? Of course the sleeper passengers wouldn't get charged for it, but would the coach passengers get charged something or would they get it for free in lieu of the normal food being unavailable?


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## Cal (Dec 31, 2021)

BCL said:


> I'd think maybe they would take requests from passengers and someone makes a command decisions.
> 
> And how would it work? Could they charge anyone for it if it's not something on the menu with a listed price? Of course the sleeper passengers wouldn't get charged for it, but would the coach passengers get charged something or would they get it for free in lieu of the normal food being unavailable?


Taking requests would probably make it more hectic, the crew would want and need to go with the easiest, quickest, cost effective, and most efficient method. And from what I’ve read all passengers get it for free due to the lateness


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## ehbowen (Dec 31, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> How were they stuck? Did the runways close? Were all other aircraft in use? Did all the pilots strike?
> 
> 
> It's the same "let them eat shelf stable cake" attitude. MRE's normally come with wages, pensions, and stipends.


One big problem with MREs for emergency on-train use: They're mostly packaging. I mean, like about 75% packaging and sundries and 25% usable food. This is a handicap even in the field, but you can plan around it since you're consuming a predictable and consistent quantity every day and you need fresh utensils and condiments being without a pantry or scullery. But on a train you may never touch your stock for six months, but when you do you need case quantities of food _right then._ And you have pre-existing stocks of tableware, condiments, and dishes with the capability to wash and re-use them if it becomes necessary. Number 10 cans of Dinty Moore and packages of Minute Rice are perhaps 90% food, 10% packaging. That makes a huge difference.


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## me_little_me (Dec 31, 2021)

I'd feed my train by giving plenty of diesel fuel for the engine, lots of water for the cooling system, and plenty of oil and lubricating products to keep it in good condition. I'd also be sure it has regular visits to the train doctor.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 31, 2021)

ehbowen said:


> One big problem with MREs for emergency on-train use: They're mostly packaging. I mean, like about 75% packaging and sundries and 25% usable food. This is a handicap even in the field, but you can plan around it since you're consuming a predictable and consistent quantity every day and you need fresh utensils and condiments being without a pantry or scullery. But on a train you may never touch your stock for six months, but when you do you need case quantities of food _right then._ And you have pre-existing stocks of tableware, condiments, and dishes with the capability to wash and re-use them if it becomes necessary. Number 10 cans of Dinty Moore and packages of Minute Rice are perhaps 90% food, 10% packaging. That makes a huge difference.


This is a good point, but Amtrak could specify MREs with different contents and packaging than the ones the military uses. These could have less packaging and sundries and include plastic utensils. As for storage, most baggage cars I've looked into are more or less empty. Cases of MREs could be stored there, ready for distribution in an emergency.


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## ehbowen (Dec 31, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> This is a good point, but Amtrak could specify MREs with different contents and packaging than the ones the military uses. These could have less packaging and sundries and include plastic utensils. As for storage, most baggage cars I've looked into are more or less empty. Cases of MREs could be stored there, ready for distribution in an emergency.



The U.S. military, with God's own quantity discount, currently pays $89.86 per case of 12 MREs according to the best information I can find, or about $7.25 per meal. A 38 oz. can of Dinty costs $4.18 and a 14 oz. box of Minute Rice costs $1.94 with NO quantity discount (shelf price at Wal-Mart). That's .92 per serving for the stew and .28 per serving for the rice. Let's do a little role-playing. You're a 15 year purchasing agent who wants to make it to 20, and I'm your bean-counter supervisor. Now, tell me again how you justify the MREs?

Even if you presume that you could custom-configure the MRE menu to squeeze 18 in a case and still keep the price stable (you couldn't), it still doesn't fly...er, roll!


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## MARC Rider (Dec 31, 2021)

ehbowen said:


> The U.S. military, with God's own quantity discount, currently pays $89.86 per case of 12 MREs according to the best information I can find, or about $7.25 per meal. A 38 oz. can of Dinty costs $4.18 and a 14 oz. box of Minute Rice costs $1.94 with NO quantity discount (shelf price at Wal-Mart). That's .92 per serving for the stew and .28 per serving for the rice. Let's do a little role-playing. You're a 15 year purchasing agent who wants to make it to 20, and I'm your bean-counter supervisor. Now, tell me again how you justify the MREs?
> 
> Even if you presume that you could custom-configure the MRE menu to squeeze 18 in a case and still keep the price stable (you couldn't), it still doesn't fly...er, roll!


OK, you have a point, but neither the purchasing agent nor the bean-counter supervisor is considering the cost of the labor to heat up and dish out the stew and clean up afterwards. On the other hand, because it's not on their account, they might not care. The advantage of MREs is that they can just be passed out with no further involvement by crew, who might be busy dealing with other aspects of the delay situation. There is an advantage over KFC and the like because the cases would be on board, stored in the baggage car, and would not require someone spending time arranging with the local KFC or whatever to order and deliver. This might be especially useful if the train is snowbound, stuck in the Donner Pass.


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## ehbowen (Dec 31, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> OK, you have a point, but neither the purchasing agent nor the bean-counter supervisor is considering the cost of the labor to heat up and dish out the stew and clean up afterwards. On the other hand, because it's not on their account, they might not care. The advantage of MREs is that they can just be passed out with no further involvement by crew, who might be busy dealing with other aspects of the delay situation. There is an advantage over KFC and the like because the cases would be on board, stored in the baggage car, and would not require someone spending time arranging with the local KFC or whatever to order and deliver. This might be especially useful if the train is snowbound, stuck in the Donner Pass.


The labor is already a sunk cost as long as an LSA, SA, and chef are on board. If the conductor needs their help in an emergency, well, first things first.

Remember the premise of the OP. About 350 hungry passengers, no relief in sight, and normal emergency stocks (whether Dinty or MREs) are exhausted. Ok, so you propose that additional emergency stocks be carried in the baggage car. Given the points above of cost and ratio of actual food to packaging, does it make better sense to carry a few cases of seldom-used MREs (which, although shelf stable, do keep best in a temperature controlled environment) or the equivalent volume of additional Dinty and rice?

Look, when a train gets into this situation, no passenger is going to say, "Wow! I got an MRE!" (Waitaminit, there are some AU types who consider eating the Dinty Moore a badge of honor!) Realistically, though, the best any crew is going to do in that situation is shift some passengers' attitudes from, "Never again!" to, "I guess they really are trying to make the best of a bad situation." And to that end I'd suggest a high-limit credit card for the LSA and a database of every restaurant, grocery store, and take-out place along his route.

Editing To Add: Keep in mind that if you want to serve just one MRE meal to 350 hungry passengers, plus crew...you're looking at 30 cases of MREs. Think you can make them share? Better you than me!


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## Lonnie (Jan 1, 2022)

ehbowen said:


> THIS is how I'd feed my train:



That is ... just... I don't know if there are words to describe! With Judy Garland in there, no less! Can you imagine getting fed that way?!


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Jan 1, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> Can you imagine getting fed that way?!



It was a art form. The way the cup handle was turned would indicate what beverage to pour. The staff available to support this scale of operations. The logistics involved to bring fresh food to all these restaurants.

The waitress were single women only, then help civilized the community by getting married.


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## west point (Jan 1, 2022)

IMO spare meals need to be carried in the baggage cars where winter-time shutdowns are possible. Those locations that have the potential of stalling in snow with no ability for rescue need these spare rations. Examples are:
1. E Builder west of Minneapolis
2. Cal Z west of Denver
3. LSL Albany - Toledo when heavy lake effect snow predicted


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## TinCan782 (Jan 1, 2022)

west point said:


> IMO spare meals need to be carried in the baggage cars where winter-time shutdowns are possible. Those locations that have the potential of stalling in snow with no ability for rescue need these spare rations. Examples are:
> 1. E Builder west of Minneapolis
> 2. Cal Z west of Denver
> 3. LSL Albany - Toledo when heavy lake effect snow predicted


I'll add the Coast Starlight between K Falls and Eugene ... February 2019 the CS was "stuck" for 36 hours near Oakridge, OR. Although they had heat and food, it could have been worse.


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## Qapla (Jan 1, 2022)

I would think that, if the delay is serious, available potable water could become more of a concern that food - and there is no such thing as dehydrated water that can be carried in the baggage car in powder form


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## BCL (Jan 2, 2022)

Qapla said:


> I would think that, if the delay is serious, available potable water could become more of a concern that food - and there is no such thing as dehydrated water that can be carried in the baggage car in powder form



Non-potable water too. Wasn't there a train that was delayed so long that passengers were told to not flush the toilets?

But for the most part I think that water trucks can be sent as long as they're close enough to a convenient place to load.


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## NorthShore (Jan 2, 2022)

I'm calling my friend, and asking her to come down and feed us.


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## jis (Jan 2, 2022)

Moderator's Note: Looks like this thread has run its course about feeding the train near Gallup NM, and now is trying to feed trains in every possible desert and snowstorm. So let us take a breather. Locked.

If you wish to join the continuing discussion on food on delayed trains you can find it in the thread at: Food suggestions on delayed trains


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