# Was: Rocky Mountaineer Seattle, Now: Buses



## jis (Aug 26, 2013)

Unfortunately I think the bus service that existed between Great Falls MT and Calgary via Shelby MT and Lethbridge is no more. I had once upon a time many moons ago taken it from Great Falls to Shelby, to catch the Rt 2 bus from there to Glacier Park and then onto Kalispell. Probably that bus does not exist anymore either. Surprise! Looks like that service is still there!

http://toolecountymt.gov/Kalispell_Route.html

Also there appears to be a service still existing between Shelby MT and Sweetgrass on the Canadian Border. Don't the know the situation from there to Lethbridge and onto Calgary. I am told that Calgary Airport Shuttle might pickup at Sweetgrass, or even at Shelby. So it could be possible tog et to Clagary via the EB to Shelby MT and thence by road to Clagary.


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## railiner (Aug 26, 2013)

jis said:


> Unfortunately I think the bus service that existed between Great Falls MT and Calgary via Shelby MT and Lethbridge is no more. I had once upon a time many moons ago taken it from Great Falls to Shelby, to catch the Rt 2 bus from there to Glacier Park and then onto Kalispell. Probably that bus does not exist anymore either. Surprise! Looks like that service is still there!
> http://toolecountymt.gov/Kalispell_Route.html
> 
> Also there appears to be a service still existing between Shelby MT and Sweetgrass on the Canadian Border. Don't the know the situation from there to Lethbridge and onto Calgary. I am told that Calgary Airport Shuttle might pickup at Sweetgrass, or even at Shelby. So it could be possible tog et to Clagary via the EB to Shelby MT and thence by road to Clagary.


Hmmm. Surprised to see this route mentioned here and now.....way back in 1970, I took my epic vacation by bus from New York City to Fairbanks, Alaska, and rode that very route....Took Continental Trailways (my employer), from New York to Billings, Mt. via Cheyenne; Billings to Sweetgrass via Great Falls and Shelby on Intermountain Transportation Company (long defunct); Greyhound Lines of Canada from Coutts (right across border from Sweetgrass) to Edmonton via Lethbridge and Calgary; Canadian Coachways (absorbed into Greyhound Canada) from Edmonton to Whitehorse via Dawson Creek; and finally Whitehorse to Fairbanks via Beaver Creek and Tok Jct. on Alaskan Coachways (abandoned by former parent Canadian Coachways--limited van type service now provided by Alaska Direct).

The ride from Whitehorse to Fairbanks was on a Western Flyer "bruck'--a combine type coach with twenty seats forward, and a large baggage-express compartment in the rear that carried everything, and I do mean everything....from canoes to caskets serving the isolated hamlets on the Alcan Highway....


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## Blackwolf (Aug 27, 2013)

railiner said:


> jis said:
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> > Unfortunately I think the bus service that existed between Great Falls MT and Calgary via Shelby MT and Lethbridge is no more. I had once upon a time many moons ago taken it from Great Falls to Shelby, to catch the Rt 2 bus from there to Glacier Park and then onto Kalispell. Probably that bus does not exist anymore either. Surprise! Looks like that service is still there!
> ...


Would this be an example of a "bruck"?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 27, 2013)

Blackwolf said:


> railiner said:
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Wow, a Great Northern combine bus! Never seen this one before. The nose looks like a BrillLiner trolley. A unique peice from my favourite old-time railroad! Where did it run?

Railiner, that sure seems like a great trip. Didn't know that you worked for COT way back then. Cheyenne-Billings is still run by Black Hills Trailways from Denver.

Here's the most recent intercity bus map for the US, you might want to see it if you want to hop across the border from the middle of the EB or the Canadian: http://www.aibra.org/pdf/usmap.pdf

Someone has restarted Grand Forks-Winnepeg, but it's really expensive! Another bus crossing should be at Sault Ste. Marie.


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## NS VIA Fan (Aug 31, 2013)

jis said:


> Also there appears to be a service still existing between Shelby MT and Sweetgrass on the Canadian Border. Don't the know the situation from there to Lethbridge and onto Calgary. I am told that Calgary Airport Shuttle might pickup at Sweetgrass, or even at Shelby. So it could be possible tog et to Clagary via the EB to Shelby MT and thence by road to Clagary.


Yes, the Calgary Airport Shuttle........schedule/fares here (not frequant and expensive):

http://airportshuttleexpress.com/waterton.htm#moose


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## railiner (Aug 31, 2013)

That nicely preserved Great Northern 'Bruck' was built by Kenworth-Pacific, one of several that ran on various branchlines in Montana. Crown Coach, known mostly for its school buses and firetrucks, also built combo-buses, many "Highway Post Offices" for the Post Office Department, some for Northern Pacific Transport, and others.

The one I rode, up the Alcan, was built by Western Flyer, a derivative of their model P-41. I could not find a photo of one on the 'net, but a did find a full coach version here...





In addition to these purpose-built combo's, Greyhound Lines converted several PD4501 Scenicruiser's to combo's, retaining from 18-30 of their original 43 seats. They installed a bulkhead inside, and cut an electric roll-up cargo door into the rear, curb side. Later, some MC-7's were converted to combo's, and used salvaged Scenicruiser full tandem rear axle assemblies for the extra weight capacity. Continental Trailways converted some of their Eagle coaches to combo's as well.....


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## NS VIA Fan (Aug 31, 2013)

railiner said:


> ..............Billings to Sweetgrass via Great Falls and Shelby on Intermountain Transportation Company (long defunct); Greyhound Lines of Canada from Coutts (right across border from Sweetgrass) to Edmonton via Lethbridge and Calgary; Canadian Coachways (absorbed into Greyhound Canada) from Edmonton to Whitehorse via Dawson Creek; and finally Whitehorse to Fairbanks via Beaver Creek and Tok Jct. on Alaskan Coachways (abandoned by former parent Canadian Coachways--limited van type service now provided by Alaska Direct).The ride from Whitehorse to Fairbanks was on a Western Flyer "bruck'--a combine type coach with twenty seats forward, and a large baggage-express compartment in the rear that carried everything, and I do mean everything....from canoes to caskets serving the isolated hamlets on the Alcan Highway....


Though these might be of interest......the schedules for those routes from the “Official Canadian Bus Guide” for October 1978:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 31, 2013)

Great timetable! I didn't know Intermountain had that big of a network! Did they seriously run their own coaches all the way south to Phoenix and west to San Frnacisco? Those times are in italics, which I think means they're run by an affliated company. Today it seems that Salt Lake Express runs a very similar newtork, albiet smaller.

It's very surprisng to see Alaskan Coachways running daily schedules Whitehorse-Fairbanks and three times daily Edmonton-Fort St. John.

Any pictures of Intermountain or Coachways? Can't find any pics.


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## MrFSS (Aug 31, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Great timetable! I didn't know Intermountain had that big of a network! Did they seriously run their own coaches all the way south to Phoenix and west to San Frnacisco? Those times are in italics, which I think means they're run by an affliated company. Today it seems that Salt Lake Express runs a very similar newtork, albiet smaller.
> It's very surprisng to see Alaskan Coachways running daily schedules Whitehorse-Fairbanks and three times daily Edmonton-Fort St. John.
> 
> Any pictures of Intermountain or Coachways? Can't find any pics.


There is a GL after the italics city - what do you think that stands for?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 31, 2013)

MrFSS said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
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> > Great timetable! I didn't know Intermountain had that big of a network! Did they seriously run their own coaches all the way south to Phoenix and west to San Frnacisco? Those times are in italics, which I think means they're run by an affliated company. Today it seems that Salt Lake Express runs a very similar newtork, albiet smaller.
> ...


Ah, but that would mean all service Idaho Falls-Las Vegas would be operated by Greyhound Lines. There's a through service Butte-Salt Lake City. So it still dosen't make sense. Maybe it's the rare case of a Greyhound driver on an Intermountain bus.


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## railiner (Aug 31, 2013)

NS VIA Fan said:


> railiner said:
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> > ..............Billings to Sweetgrass via Great Falls and Shelby on Intermountain Transportation Company (long defunct); Greyhound Lines of Canada from Coutts (right across border from Sweetgrass) to Edmonton via Lethbridge and Calgary; Canadian Coachways (absorbed into Greyhound Canada) from Edmonton to Whitehorse via Dawson Creek; and finally Whitehorse to Fairbanks via Beaver Creek and Tok Jct. on Alaskan Coachways (abandoned by former parent Canadian Coachways--limited van type service now provided by Alaska Direct).The ride from Whitehorse to Fairbanks was on a Western Flyer "bruck'--a combine type coach with twenty seats forward, and a large baggage-express compartment in the rear that carried everything, and I do mean everything....from canoes to caskets serving the isolated hamlets on the Alcan Highway....
> ...


Once again, NS VIA Fan, you amaze me with your vast treasury of old timetables.....even though this was several years after my 1970 journey, the schedule was pretty much the same. Enjoyed reliving it by following it.....thanks so much for posting it! :hi:


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## railiner (Aug 31, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> MrFSS said:
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Greyhound and Intermountain did indeed pool equipment on those routes. At the time I rode, they were both running GM PD4107's on it. And further south, Greyhound also pooled with Sun Valley on the Salt Lake City-Las Vegas-Phoenix route. They also pooled with another defunct carrier, LVT--Las Vegas-Tonopah-Reno Stageline on the Seattle-Reno-Las Vegas-Phoenix route.

Back in the glory days of GL, they were involved with pools with other carriers on routes from coast to coast, and border to border and beyond....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 1, 2013)

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
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Greyhound sure pooled with a lot of companies back then. I first found LVTR and Sun Valley on the Nevada/Utah page of this site: http://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhite.html. Never thought that Sun Valley ran all the way up to SLC. Apparently there was also an old Ely-Tonopah Stage that ran the crazy US Route 6 Ely-Bishop!

By "pooled service", do you mean just driver pools or equipment pools as well. I assume it's the latter. It lloks like the PD-4107 was a popular coach back then on these less-popular routes. Do you know what buses they ran on the LVTR pool?

A lot of these services would be very useful to me right now, especially LVTR and Nevada Central. Lots of people here want to ride Reno-Las Vegas, it might be viable for a 40-footer. Too bad there's no more intercity 35-footers.

Look at how off-topic this has become form the Rocky Mountaineer!

Edit: Now that I think about it, we really need some Brucks out here in the Basin! Not too much pax, not too much freight.


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## railiner (Sep 1, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> railiner said:
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A "pool", is an equipment pool, with a coach going from one companies route onto another, to provide a thru, no-change service for passengers. When companies pool, they will each allocate equipment to the pool, based on prorated proportion of total miles operated. When carrier's operate more than one such route, they compute the total of all pooled routes to simplify allocations.

The drivers normally change where the routes meet, but there are several different types of exceptions to this, mainly for operational convenience. But the drivers end up at years end, with the correct prorated miles, if operating over each other's territory/

When Greyhound pooled with a smaller carrier, Greyhound required the carrier to provide a vehicle comparable to what Greyhound used at the time. This usually meant a General Motors coach, preferably a fairly late model, equiped with A/C, power steering, restroom's, etc. In additon, Greyhound also required some of the carriers to use a GL similar blue and white paint scheme, with a Greyhound dog logo, on the other carrier's buses dedicated to the pool. In later years, Greyhound relaxed on that part of the requirement.

Sun Valley Bus Lines, (not related to Idaho carrier Sun Valley Stages), ran from Las Vegas south to Phoenix via Needles.

LVT ran from Reno to Las Vegas, and south to Phoenix via Kingman. Both pooled with Greyhound, and each other.......


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 1, 2013)

What the heck does all this bus stuff have to do with the Rocky Mountaineer?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 1, 2013)

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
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Power steering? Didn't the early-model Eagles lack power steering? How many of those 1960s and 1970s buses had power steering?

I'm really interested in this Nevada Central Lines, don't know anything about them but I would really like to ride US Route 50 on a bus!



MikefromCrete said:


> What the heck does all this bus stuff have to do with the Rocky Mountaineer?


I know, it dosen't really relate, but since the Rocky Mountaineer part of the topic dosen't really need much discussing anymore, and since this thread isn't very well-visited, it dosen't matter that much. Buses are inherently related to trains, so it's not totally unrelated.


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## railiner (Sep 1, 2013)

MikefromCrete said:


> What the heck does all this bus stuff have to do with the Rocky Mountaineer?


Mike has a valid point.....suggest we continue these discussions on the 'Greyhound .....Fleet' thread, so as not to offend others........


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## pennyk (Sep 1, 2013)

railiner said:


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Agree. Charlie, did you have the title of the thread changed to reflect the fact that this thread is wandered off...?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 2, 2013)

railiner said:


> MikefromCrete said:
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> > What the heck does all this bus stuff have to do with the Rocky Mountaineer?
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OK, no problem. I really don't want to be portrayed as turning every train thread off-topic into buses.



pennyk said:


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Could you tell me which member is Charlie?


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## CHamilton (Sep 2, 2013)

Yes, I changed the title, mostly to see if it was possible. FYI, you need to be the person who started the thread. Click Edit, then Use Full Editor, and you'll be able to edit the title.


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## Anderson (Sep 2, 2013)

Ok, I decided to split the topic for a couple of reasons. It was a kludge, but:
(1) The bus discussion was worthwhile...but didn't belong in one of the rail forums; and

(2) The discussion on the Rocky Mountaineer service to/from Seattle was also worth a topic.

Sorry if there's now some context-less commentary in here.


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## the_traveler (Sep 2, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> Yes, I changed the title, mostly to see if it was possible. FYI, you need to be the person who started the thread. Click Edit, then Use Full Editor, and you'll be able to edit the title.


While you're correct that the original starter of the thread can switch it (I think), any moderator can do so at any time. Just contact one of us, or use the "report to a moderator" button.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 2, 2013)

CHamilton said:


> Yes, I changed the title, mostly to see if it was possible. FYI, you need to be the person who started the thread. Click Edit, then Use Full Editor, and you'll be able to edit the title.


So you're Charlie! I didn't know what was going on there for a while.


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## CHamilton (Sep 2, 2013)

Ah well, we need some mystery in our lives, don't we?


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## Slasharoo (Sep 12, 2013)

and then I took a dog sled to Nome, then a steamer to Vladivostok, then the Trans-Siberian Greyhound to Lake Baikal...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 12, 2013)

Slasharoo said:


> and then I took a dog sled to Nome, then a steamer to Vladivostok, then the Trans-Siberian Greyhound to Lake Baikal...


:angry2:


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