# Who travels in the Sleeper Cars?



## Nick Farr (Aug 5, 2020)

The discussion of full service dining on Long Distance trains got me thinking about who's riding today's Sleeper Cars. Amtrak probably made some assumptions about who's traveling and those decisions informed the demise of dining. I figured I'd ask here to see if my assumptions are aligning with everyone else's.

Over the past 12 months, I've completed 5 trips on the California Zephyr (CHI<>RNO) and one on the Southwest Chief (CHI<>ABQ). One of these trips was in July, while COVID was in full swing.

While I haven't gone to the lengths to interview every passenger I come into contact with, the folks I have interacted with seem to fall into these buckets:


The Bucket Lister/"One and Done" - These passengers are riding for their first time and it's a novelty experience for them. They appear to mostly go into the experience without ever intending to do it again. Many are just trying it out to see if it works. Foreign travelers or those who speak very little English fall into this category a lot
Rail Fans - The radio scanner gives them away. In non-pandemic times, you can find them in the observation lounge giving pointers. (Note: I didn't see any on my COVID trip)
Families with Kids - If not in one family room, they split roomettes. The odd thing I've noticed is that kids just skip the diner altogether and go straight to the cafe car if they need anything. They seem to mostly be families that are sick of road trips.
Couples or others traveling between big cities, but not the whole way - These couples only have a one night stay if that and go from Chicago to Denver, or Denver to Salt Lake.
People who cannot/will not fly - They can afford to fly, but choose not to.
I would consider myself a rail fan, but on the rare times I need to head somewhere else in the country, I intend to do it in a sleeper car. I would expect that this particular segment can grow, since it enables you to travel the country and cut down the number of people you come into contact with from hundreds to dozens. I also really enjoy the experience (even with TV Dinner Dining). 

If you have traveled in the sleepers, what kind of passengers have you noticed? Is there a class of passenger I'm forgetting?


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 5, 2020)

Obviously not right now but I’ve met many international travelers who wanted to use Amtrak to see as much of the USA as possible while traveling between major cities. 

This is most common on the California trains - Sunset Limited, Chief, and Zephyr. 

The single overnight trips like silvers, Capitol, etc. do have a class that I would call “do something different” crowd. Usually young couples or solo travelers who just wanted to try something different and see what it was like.


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## Palmland (Aug 5, 2020)

Interesting survey, Nick. Not what i expected as I see many, like my wife and I, who enjoy train travel and want to see the country. Our 'type' is certainly older, usually retired, with time and money to afford sleeper fares. While the trip involves an ultimate destination to see friends, relatives, or new sights it is also about the journey. Usually we travel end to end of the train's route and often take the plane in the other direction.


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## mitako (Aug 5, 2020)

My #1 reason for traveling by train is absolute terror of flying. But I also enjoy seeing the scenery way out where no road goes. Hubby and I travel in sleeper -- roomette usually, but I upgraded to bedroom for our trip next month so no sharing bathroom during pandemic -- as we can manage to afford it and prefer the peace and relative quiet of a sleeper. In the future, I am going to think long and hard about paying thousands of dollars for a lengthy trip that includes days of "flex" meals, however. It's hard enough to justify the $$$$$$$ of a sleeper as it is.


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## PVD (Aug 5, 2020)

My curiosity is what percentage of the SC passengers on the multi night trains are onboard long enough to have multi day meal considerations. Very often, there is criticism of lack of choice for 2 days of meals, I wonder what percentage the end to end traffic (or close enough for duplicate meals to matter) actually is? I've done LSL or CL to CHI, and CZ to Denver a number of times, but that's one night on each train. I might feel very different about limited selections if I was on the rest of the way....


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## me_little_me (Aug 5, 2020)

Business people. My son had to take multiple trips to NYC from Atlanta to visit customers. He found he could spend the day at work, then say good bye to the family then catch the overnight sleeper to NYC while giving him an opportunity to do work on the computer and arrive in NYC in early afternoon in time to meet with one or two customers.
He no longer needs to visit customers but he probably would not do that any more since he would not at all enjoy either the dinner or the breakfast and at the price, he could fly first class. My statement reflects pre-Covid, but post-garbage food travel vs pre-garbage days.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 5, 2020)

I’ve used Amtrak sleeping cars for business travel as well. Some managers I’ve worked for will only book me a flight but some will give me a travel stipend equal to the ticket they would have booked me.

One manager was convinced I was taking the train so I could pocket some of the money... until I showed them the receipts and that I was actually spending some money out of pocket in order to take the train. Haha.


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## Qapla (Aug 5, 2020)

I have taken the train to go places due to distance as well as taking some short trips just because I enjoy it. I am in the group that doesn't fly

However, I have yet to use a sleeper. I have ridden coach - even overnight. At the current rates, traveling by sleeper has been out of my range ... I would like to try it sometime but, I have to be able to afford the fare in both directions and still have money to use at my destination.


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## pennyk (Aug 5, 2020)

I would add "women traveling alone" (who do not want to sleep next to a stranger) to the list. 

When I was younger (at least 25+ years ago), due to finances, I would travel in coach overnight. However, the last time I traveled from BAL to WPK, the person sitting next to me in coach was a man who had just come from work as a maintenance man and who was a smoker. I was very uncomfortable sitting next to him and dreaded looking forward to attempting to sleep next to him. At that time, I learned somehow that conductors would sell available sleepers at the rate based on the current location of the train. I found the conductor in the cafe car and he informed me that there were no available sleepers at that time, but would let me know if something came up. I stayed in the cafe car waiting. In North Carolina, the conductor informed me there was a no show for a one-person tiny room (slumber coach?). I recall paying the increase in fare from wherever in NC to WPK in cash. I do not recall how much it was, but I remember it was less than $100 and well worth what I paid. It turns out dinner was included. Since this was my first time in a sleeper, I had no idea what to expect. I recall dinner was served cafeteria style and I walked with a tray back to my room and ate there. I think wine was included (but I may be wrong). I have traveled in a sleeper ever since (but never again in the same type of room or with the same meal service). I joined AGR and accumulated points, and when travelling to WAS or BAL to visit my sister, I would pay one way and use points the other way. If I was not able to afford a sleeper, I did not travel.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 5, 2020)

Palmland said:


> Interesting survey, Nick. Not what i expected as I see many, like my wife and I, who enjoy train travel and want to see the country. Our 'type' is certainly older, usually retired, with time and money to afford sleeper fares. While the trip involves an ultimate destination to see friends, relatives, or new sights it is also about the journey. Usually we travel end to end of the train's route and often take the plane in the other direction.



Eeep! I totally forgot elderly couples with mobility issues! I think that's the only kind of passenger I've ever seen in the Handicapped rooms (except for the SCA or Conductor)


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 5, 2020)

pennyk said:


> I would add "women traveling alone" (who do not want to sleep next to a stranger) to the list.
> 
> When I was younger (at least 25+ years ago), due to finances, I would travel in coach overnight. However, the last time I traveled from BAL to WPK, the person sitting next to me in coach was a man who had just come from work as a maintenance man and who was a smoker. I was very uncomfortable sitting next to him and dreaded looking forward to attempting to sleep next to him. At that time, I learned somehow that conductors would sell available sleepers at the rate based on the current location of the train. I found the conductor in the cafe car and he informed me that there were no available sleepers at that time, but would let me know if something came up. I stayed in the cafe car waiting. In North Carolina, the conductor informed me there was a no show for a one-person tiny room (slumber coach?). I recall paying the increase in fare from wherever in NC to WPK in cash. I do not recall how much it was, but I remember it was less than $100 and well worth what I paid. It turns out dinner was included. Since this was my first time in a sleeper, I had no idea what to expect. I recall dinner was served cafeteria style and I walked with a tray back to my room and ate there. I think wine was included (but I may be wrong). I have traveled in a sleeper ever since (but never again in the same type of room or with the same meal service). I joined AGR and accumulated points, and when travelling to WAS or BAL to visit my sister, I would pay one way and use points the other way. If I was not able to afford a sleeper, I did not travel.


I dont ever recall Slumber Coaches having Meals included Penny, and for sure not Alcohol.

And usually a Slumber Coach upgrade, say from WAS-ATL on the Crescent was only like a $25 Upgrade.( I rode this route many times in both directions).

This makes me think you were in a Heritage Sleeper, and the upgrade was for a Roomette, since your Meal was included.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 5, 2020)

pennyk said:


> I would add "women traveling alone" (who do not want to sleep next to a stranger) to the list.



Apparently this is the rule in COVID travels--nobody will be seated next to someone they're not traveling with.

I overheard the conductors trying to figure out how they'd manage the passenger jenga through busier stops in coach on the CZ.


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## joelkfla (Aug 5, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> Eeep! I totally forgot elderly couples with mobility issues! I think that's the only kind of passenger I've ever seen in the Handicapped rooms (except for the SCA or Conductor)


Not just couples -- singles, too.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 5, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> Not just couples -- singles, too.



I'm sure that's the case, but I have yet to notice a mobility challenged passenger ride alone in those rooms. I once saw one elderly lady with a walker struggle up/down the stairs--the SCA and the Conductor managed to swap this lady into a downstairs roomette, but that's the only thing I noticed.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 5, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> If you have traveled in the sleepers, what kind of passengers have you noticed? Is there a class of passenger I'm forgetting?



One type of sleeper passenger I have come across over the years, is the "token" sleeper. They are a member of a group (a family ?) that otherwise are all traveling in coach. They swap the usage (tag team) of the sleeper compartment throughout their trip (for a nap?). It becomes my interest or problem, when the person currently in the sleeper, resists turning it over to the next person, especially when this disruption happens at like 3am.


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## Palmland (Aug 5, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> Eeep! I totally forgot elderly couples with mobility issues! I think that's the only kind of passenger I've ever seen in the Handicapped rooms (except for the SCA or Conductor)


Yes, that is another category. Fortunately we have yet to need a handicapped room. Still hiking the Rockies in our 70’s.


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## Sidney (Aug 5, 2020)

I book sleepers on my cross country trips out of Chicago. I can't justify the price to get to Chicago. I normally leave from Harrisburg Pa. I ride trains for the experience. I've been taking long distance trips for 30 years and as I got older I normally book roomettes. Having your own little room while traveling across country is one of life's great pleasures and it never gets old. I'm Disappointed with the flex dining which is now the norm,but it doesn't deter me from riding.

As for riding in Coach,during the pedemic you are guaranteed two seats to yourself which is a godsend. Nothing is more uncomfortable and awkward than sharing a seat with a stranger on an overnight run. I would gladly pay a premium to have the seat next to me vacant,but Amtrak doesn't address this. I m booked from Chicago to Utica as part of a cross country circle trip next month.. I just can't justify paying $240 for a bed from 9:30PM until noon the next day. No dinner and that pitiful breakfast they now serve is not worth it so I opted for business class. Usually that seat next to you is vacant in business class,so I opted for that.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 5, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> One type of sleeper passenger I have come across over the years, is the "token" sleeper. They are a member of a group (a family ?) that otherwise are all traveling in coach. They swap the usage (tag team) of the sleeper compartment throughout their trip (for a nap?). It becomes my interest or problem, when the person currently in the sleeper, resists turning it over to the next person, especially when this disruption happens at like 3am.



Is this even permitted? They generally do a pretty good job of intercepting coach passengers through the dining car (since they would see them )


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## jiml (Aug 5, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> Is this even permitted? They generally do a pretty good job of intercepting coach passengers through the dining car (since they would see them )


How would they know it wasn't a sleeper passenger returning from the lounge? Anyway, I've definitely seen what @Cho Cho Charlie has described. In one case several children were involved, with the parents taking turns "supervising".


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## PVD (Aug 5, 2020)

No it is not permitted, but rather difficult to enforce. Chicago to Utica would be the LSL, BC is the split car, one side is singles, never have to worry about a seatmate there.


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## Willbridge (Aug 5, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I’ve used Amtrak sleeping cars for business travel as well. Some managers I’ve worked for will only book me a flight but some will give me a travel stipend equal to the ticket they would have booked me.
> 
> One manager was convinced I was taking the train so I could pocket some of the money... until I showed them the receipts and that I was actually spending some money out of pocket in order to take the train. Haha.


Yes, when the schedule is right for one night there are business travelers. For two-night travel they seem to be entrepreneurs or people in the entertainment fields, both types with homework to do on the train. On the SWC I've met an (employed) actress traveling BOS>LAX and a movie producer traveling LAX>BOS. Neither was particularly alarmed that I was a coach passenger.

My favorite on the first morning eastbound -- while riding LAX>RAT in a roomette I was chatting with a cable tv specialist who regularly traveled LAX<>ABQ and we overheard a guy playing the role of a big shot NYC executive loudly on his cellphone. The "New Yorker" was trying to figure out why overnight his phone had added an hour to the time, when we weren't anywhere near Central Time yet.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 5, 2020)

Willbridge said:


> For two-night travel they seem to be entrepreneurs or people in the entertainment fields,



Both of those titles indeed describe me.


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## Sauve850 (Aug 5, 2020)

I travel from a west coast city each year back to my home in Florida. ( I will fly home this year) I fly to my summer destination and take the train back with 1-2 nights in Chicago and Washington, DC. I choose a bedroom but have been in Viewliner roomette which is fine. I simply enjoy the slow cross country travel. Its good for reflection.

Ive always enjoyed the dining experience with others but even that menu got old for me. Breakfast was good, lunch ok and struggled with dinner. Dessert to go back to the room was always good after dinner. Ive had the new dining experience and while breakfast is ok for me that's about it. It wouldn't stop me from traveling though. I do carry a scanner but spend little time in the lounge.


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## Willbridge (Aug 5, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Both of those titles indeed describe me.


I'll bet you know that there's a secret time zone in between Central and Pacific.


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## JoeShmo (Aug 6, 2020)

The type of sleeper car passenger that I am is the 'visit family once a year' type. I take Greyhound from Ohio to Chicago. Then catch the Friday departure Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited and arrive in Tucson Sunday evening. I love taking the train and usually spend the entire time on the train staring out the windows loving the scenery. Once my family visit is over I usually am in a rush to get home so I fly back. I already have a trip planned for this fall and I am hoping that full dining service will be restored by then.


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## WICT106 (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm also in the 'visit family once per year' category of sleeper passenger. While I could fly between Wisconsin and Florida, I enjoy taking the train more. There's nothing special about flying, anywhere. All that is available seems to be airborne cattle cars. Taking a train, while it has some significant flaws, has been more pleasant, overall, for me.


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## jiml (Aug 6, 2020)

Willbridge said:


> I'll bet you know that there's a secret time zone in between Central and Pacific.


A lot of North Americans forget about this. I blame the media - how many times have you heard something announced as "8 o'clock Eastern, 7 o'clock Central and 5 o'clock Pacific"? The one in-between is seldom mentioned. As you would know, it's worse in Canada with two others that get little attention unless you live there (even after we dropped one in 1983). Taking the train to Halifax last year, I was amazed at the number of people who couldn't understand why they'd been serving breakfast for an hour before they showed up.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 6, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> I’ve used Amtrak sleeping cars for business travel as well. Some managers I’ve worked for will only book me a flight but some will give me a travel stipend equal to the ticket they would have booked me.
> 
> One manager was convinced I was taking the train so I could pocket some of the money... until I showed them the receipts and that I was actually spending some money out of pocket in order to take the train. Haha.


Me too. My managers got a deal from me, as they would reimburse coach fare, and I did the sleeper part out of pocket. Considering that the Amtrak coach fare was usually a lot less than airline coach fare, they got a deal from me. But I'd only do it for 1-night trips.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 6, 2020)

Sauve850 said:


> Ive always enjoyed the dining experience with others but even that menu got old for me.



Yeah, for all the complaining about Flex dining, the full dining menu was going downhill, too.


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## manchacrr (Aug 6, 2020)

I fall into both the avid railfan and handicapped categories. On overnight trips I always book a roomette for several reasons. First is the privacy, especially at night. Second, I sleep with a CPAP machine, which is very difficult to set up when sitting in coach. Third, the meals are included in the price of the room, so it is more cost effective than travelling in coach and having to pay for all your meals while on the train, especially if the train ride is more than one night, such as on the western Amtrak long-distance services such as the Southwest Chief, Sunset Limited, California Zephyr, and Empire Builder.

I love to travel and love trains, so I make sure that I have the time to take the train when I plan my vacations. During the daytime, you will most likely find me sitting in the Sightseer Lounge with my radio scanner and camera. In the evening after dinner, I like to sit in my room and read a book or watch a movie.


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## tricia (Aug 6, 2020)

jiml said:


> A lot of North Americans forget about this. I blame the media - how many times have you heard something announced as "8 o'clock Eastern, 7 o'clock Central and 5 o'clock Pacific"? The one in-between is seldom mentioned. As you would know, it's worse in Canada with two others that get little attention unless you live there (even after we dropped one in 1983). Taking the train to Halifax last year, I was amazed at the number of people who couldn't understand why they'd been serving breakfast for an hour before they showed up.



I once heard a radio host, in New Mexico I think, say: "It's 6 o'clock in the Forgotten Time Zone."


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 6, 2020)

Travel by sleeper... especially on the Zephyr... was a land cruise like no other. With the tracks below lulling one to sleep at night... to the interesting conversations in the sightseer lounge... and buoyant conversation while eating 'railroad french toast' in the dining car... those were days of wonder! 

But now the sleeper coach is dirty and falling apart, frequently perspiring as the heaters are in full throttle with no window to open for air making sleep difficult... surly attendant who's griping about his job, and those carcinogenic unsatisfying tiny meals of fat, sodium, and highly processed synthetic food product... a most unpleasant way to travel... only carryover is the high cost of the fare!


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## Barb Stout (Aug 6, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> Eeep! I totally forgot elderly couples with mobility issues! I think that's the only kind of passenger I've ever seen in the Handicapped rooms (except for the SCA or Conductor)


The very first time I traveled on Amtrak (3 or so years ago), my sister and I were assigned to the H room. We hadn't asked for it and paid the same price as the roomette we thought we would be traveling in. I don't know why Amtrak changed us from a roomette to the H room, but it gave me the opportunity to practice my flute without bothering other people.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 6, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> The very first time I traveled on Amtrak (3 or so years ago), my sister and I were assigned to the H room. We hadn't asked for it and paid the same price as the roomette we thought we would be traveling in. I don't know why Amtrak changed us from a roomette to the H room, but it gave me the opportunity to practice my flute without bothering other people.



How long was your trip?


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## Asher (Aug 6, 2020)

Planes and Trains, two different options, Planes get you long distances fast, Trains on the other hand for me, are all part of a getaway to be enjoyed. People I've run into on trains, mostly in the diner, are a mixed bag, veteran train riders, and newbies. Some are loving it, others just waiting to get there and get OFF. I enjoy the dining car experience 95% of the time. I don't spend much time in the lounge except for the late evening, have closed the cafe bar while conversing with a couple of passengers, can't really recall the conversations. My wife and I are looking forward to the next time.


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## Skyline (Aug 6, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> I dont ever recall Slumber Coaches having Meals included Penny, and for sure not Alcohol.
> 
> And usually a Slumber Coach upgrade, say from WAS-ATL on the Crescent was only like a $25 Upgrade.( I rode this route many times in both directions).
> 
> This makes me think you were in a Heritage Sleeper, and the upgrade was for a Roomette, since your Meal was included.



My thought exactly.


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## cirdan (Aug 6, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> One type of sleeper passenger I have come across over the years, is the "token" sleeper. They are a member of a group (a family ?) that otherwise are all traveling in coach. They swap the usage (tag team) of the sleeper compartment throughout their trip (for a nap?). It becomes my interest or problem, when the person currently in the sleeper, resists turning it over to the next person, especially when this disruption happens at like 3am.


I have seen the same on an airliner, with one token family member being in business class.

Strangely the cabin staff, who are otherwise very protective of the class distinction, didn't seem to have a problem with it.


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## Barb Stout (Aug 6, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> How long was your trip?


It was from Albuquerque to Chicago on the SWC.


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## John Santos (Aug 6, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> It was from Albuquerque to Chicago on the SWC.


I had a friend in college who was from Albuquerque named Dave Stout. Any relation?


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## Barb Stout (Aug 6, 2020)

John Santos said:


> I had a friend in college who was from Albuquerque named Dave Stout. Any relation?


I have both a brother and nephew (his son) whose names are Dave, but neither have lived in ABQ, so no, your Dave Stout is not related to me as far as I know.


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## Chatter163 (Aug 6, 2020)

JoeShmo said:


> The type of sleeper car passenger that I am is the 'visit family once a year' type. I take Greyhound from Ohio to Chicago. Then catch the Friday departure Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited and arrive in Tucson Sunday evening. I love taking the train and usually spend the entire time on the train staring out the windows loving the scenery. Once my family visit is over I usually am in a rush to get home so I fly back. I already have a trip planned for this fall and I am hoping that full dining service will be restored by then.



Highly unlikely, I'm sorry to say.


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## Qapla (Aug 6, 2020)

pennyk said:


> the person sitting next to me in coach was a man who had just come from work as a maintenance man and who was a smoker. I was very uncomfortable sitting next to him and dreaded looking forward to attempting to sleep next to him



Penny, you are not the only one that would not want to sit next to someone like that. I'm a man and I do not enjoy riding with someone who smells of old sweat or old tobacco ... let alone both of them at the same time! I don't blame you for seeking another seat in the least.



anumberone said:


> Planes get you long distances fast, Trains on the other hand for me, are all part of a getaway to be enjoyed.



When I have mentioned taking the train to some I know they admit they never thought of taking one. Not all people take the plane to get there fast. Many take it because they don't want to drive. Seems they never even think of taking the train because the train does not advertise


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## Exvalley (Aug 6, 2020)

I am mostly a business traveler. The Lake Shore Limited gets me into Chicago refreshed and ready to go for afternoon meetings. My company pays for first class air travel. A roomette is usually pretty close in price.


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## joelkfla (Aug 6, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> I'm sure that's the case, but I have yet to notice a mobility challenged passenger ride alone in those rooms. I once saw one elderly lady with a walker struggle up/down the stairs--the SCA and the Conductor managed to swap this lady into a downstairs roomette, but that's the only thing I noticed.


Well, I've only managed to make 2 trips so far (not counting VIA Canadian.)


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## gaspeamtrak (Aug 6, 2020)

When I was younger and my parents were paying it was usually by coach but when I started working at 17 and making "money" I always take a sleeper if they are not sold out !!! Even on day trips I try and go "Business Class" on Via or on Amtrak... It's worth every penny


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 6, 2020)

pennyk said:


> I would add "women traveling alone" (who do not want to sleep next to a stranger) to the list.


I agree with the concern but disagree with the implication that it's a gender specific issue. I don't want a smelly, touchy, or neurotic seatmate regardless of whatever hardware may be involved. I've sat next to women on flights who acted normal on boarding only to become aggressive and confrontational when intoxicated. Even if everyone is clean, quiet, and acting on their best behavior sleeping with a random stranger in Amtrak's undivided loveseat contraption creates a potential minefield for mistakes and misunderstandings. Imagine risking your livelihood because you unconsciously rolled the wrong way in the middle of the night without so much as an armrest to guide you. Amtrak's long haul coach seating needs a long overdue revamp to reflect changing social norms and legal considerations.


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## Shortline (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm in the business traveler category. Not afraid to fly, I'm Platinum on American, and A List Preferred with Companion Pass on Southwest. I fly a lot. I just sometimes justify the train. Now that I'm living in Birmingham, I often fly to NYC, PHL, or WAS, then train back. Sometimes I train both ways, but that usually means leaving on a Sunday, or returning on a Saturday. That's my time.....So I avoid that usually.

Most of my trips now, are on the Crescent, in the 20 hour range. So I tend to bring my own dinner on board (sandwich, cheese/crackers/wine, etc) and make do with breakfast on board. I have now had all the meals. I'll pass, when I can. The benefit for me, is leaving say, Washington at 6 PM, and being in Birmingham by noon the next day, rather than spend another overnight, or land late the same night.

I also sometimes go out West, to LA. Again, usually fly one way, and train the other. Those trips I justify by using the time to work on projects.

But it's getting harder to justify. The service just isn't there. I simply want comfortable, clean, consistent, timely service. Where is that new bedding we heard so much about? The current blankets and pillows are terrible. Too often, we're either insanely late, or cancelled all together. Was woken up at 0630 last month, on the Capitol, with the announcement that we were very late, and would terminate in PGH, and everyone off, and onto a bus. Not entirely sure why they felt they had to wake the whole train up at 630, to tell us we had to get off in 2-3 hours, but ok. But busses "were ordered but didn't know when they would arrive-May not make the connection to the Crescent. Forget it. I Ubered to the Airport, and flew back home. And the food...well, that's been beat to death.

And the pricing, seems to be modeled for the land cruise market. I honestly have a hard time justifying the train, a lot of times. In a week or so, I need to be in Scranton. I can fly, in 4 hours, first class for $618. The train, to Philadelphia, is $820, and I'm still 2 hours dive away. Just going to have to fly. Even roomettes, tend to be hundreds more, than the same trip in first class by air. Honestly, it's like Heroin. I know it's bad for me (time wise, and money wise) and I know it's going to be disappointing. But I still do it. 6-10 trips a year. Plus, the occasional Acela trip between NYC and WAS (those, actually make sense to me). But the long distance trains, are just getting really hard to justify anymore. But I do. Not even sure why anymore!

Amtrak-There is a market for business travelers. But most of us, are going to need something a little more competitive from you!


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## Nick Farr (Aug 6, 2020)

I almost forgot to add! No weight restrictions! I hauled at least 200 lbs of kit with me to Reno and back and nobody said a word.


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## me_little_me (Aug 6, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> Travel by sleeper... especially on the Zephyr... was a land cruise like no other. With the tracks below lulling one to sleep at night... to the interesting conversations in the sightseer lounge... and buoyant conversation while eating 'railroad french toast' in the dining car... those were days of wonder!
> 
> But now the sleeper coach is dirty and falling apart, frequently perspiring as the heaters are in full throttle with no window to open for air making sleep difficult... surly attendant who's griping about his job, and those carcinogenic unsatisfying tiny meals of fat, sodium, and highly processed synthetic food product... a most unpleasant way to travel... only carryover is the high cost of the fare!


Other than the fire, how was your day, Mrs. Oleary?


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## como (Aug 6, 2020)

Another category is convenience. When my mom's health started to fail I used to take several round trips a year between Ottumwa and Denver. I could fly nonstop to Denver from where I live in Missouri, but I often would travel on short notice. The 2.5 hour drive to Ottumwa followed by a 12 hour trip meant that I could leave home at 3 p.m. arrive in Denver early the next morning. A similar schedule on the return trip. Cheaper than flying and more relaxing than driving. I was surprised at the number of people boarding across Iowa and Nebraska to go to Denver in both coach and sleeper. My wife and I now do the trip once or twice a year. Coach one way and sleeper the other.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 6, 2020)

Sidney said:


> I would gladly pay a premium to have the seat next to me vacant,but Amtrak doesn't address this.



Hmmm, seems like Amtrak is missing out on a source of revenue. They should think about it, once this COVID business is over.


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## Ollie12 (Aug 7, 2020)

It maybe different in the US but if you're interested I actually did quite a lot of analysis on exactly this question in Australia, especially on the more expensive luxury trains which have really interesting and changing demographics! The article I wrote is published here: TrainReview


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## CameraObscura76 (Aug 7, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> The discussion of full service dining on Long Distance trains got me thinking about who's riding today's Sleeper Cars. Amtrak probably made some assumptions about who's traveling and those decisions informed the demise of dining. I figured I'd ask here to see if my assumptions are aligning with everyone else's.
> 
> Over the past 12 months, I've completed 5 trips on the California Zephyr (CHI<>RNO) and one on the Southwest Chief (CHI<>ABQ). One of these trips was in July, while COVID was in full swing.
> 
> ...



I’m an Amtrak regular (or was pre-Covid) mainly because flying absolutely terrifies me but I also do appreciate seeing scenery and new places that I wouldn’t see otherwise.
My Amtrak preference would always be a roomette because I’m very introverted and the thought of having a stranger seated next to me for an entire trip (again, pre-Covid) just makes me rather uncomfortable and I enjoy having my own little private space with the added bonus of having meals included. That being said, I haven’t yet decided if it’s still worth the extra cost with the Flexible dining.


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## Pat Harper (Aug 7, 2020)

Hubby and I prefer roomette travel because he doesn't like crowds and I don't much care for the noise. We also like the fact that meals are included. We've had some really interesting talks with strangers sitting across from us. You meet people from all walks of like. One such person was Amish who was traveling to check on property he owned in another state. One time we dined with a couple and found out that the husband was related to a member of the quilt guild I belong to. Small world...


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## MARC Rider (Aug 7, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Me too. My managers got a deal from me, as they would reimburse coach fare, and I did the sleeper part out of pocket. Considering that the Amtrak coach fare was usually a lot less than airline coach fare, they got a deal from me. But I'd only do it for 1-night trips.


The routes I've taken are:

Baltimore to Ann Arbor MI: CL via Toldeo. Sometimes I'd take the Ambus to Ann Arbor (once Detroit for a conference), other times I'd get a cab to the Toledo airport and rent a car. On one trip, I went up to New York and rode the LSL to Toldeo. After a while, I started driving out, as a rental car (about $250) was way cheaper than a train or a plane plus rental car. Did it all in a day, 10-11 hours, what a grind! (But no traffic to speak of)

Baltimore - Chicago via CL. Involved me having to talk management into an extra day of travel, but when I took sleeper, I didn't claim meals while in transit.

Baltimore - Greenville SC -- via the Crescent. It gets in so early and leaves so late you can have a full 1-day meeting without having to pay for a hotel room.

Baltimore - Savannah, GA: via SM or Palmetto. For conferences I had in Hilton Head. Cab to the airport to pick up a rental car. Hertz lets you leave the keys with the station agent, thereby eliminating the extra rental car check in and time and expense of a cab ride. Naturally, toward the end, management forced us to rent from various budget brands that didn't provide that service. SM arrives from north very early and leaves for the north at about 7 PM. I'd usually spend the night in Savannah after the meeting and take the Palmetto the next morning.

Baltimore - Tampa via the SS. Did this twice for a conference. Once they were doing track work, and I had to the the Ambus from Orlando, and on the way back, I wanted an earlier arrival, so I took the Ambus and caught the SM in Orlando. The other time I took the SS the whole way. This was back when the SS had a dining car.

Of course, any business trip up and down the Northeast Corridor was a train ride by default, and once I had a meeting in Sacramento, couldn't find any non-stop flight, so I flew to San Fransisco and took the Capital Corridor, Ambus from the Ferry Terminal to Emeryville, train from Emeryville to Sacramento. But those weren't in sleeping cars.


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## Maglev (Aug 7, 2020)

I have not traveled very extensively by train, although I have traveled much of Amtrak's system over most of its history. I took a cross-country trip in coach as a teenager, but since then most travel has been in a sleeper. I and my present as well as my previous (late) wife love our privacy. I remember my first wife insisting we get a Roomette on the _Capitol Limited _from Washington to Connellsville because she couldn't stand the idea of sitting in coach or using the coach restrooms.

The amount of train travel I do depends on economics (thus indirectly getting time off work). With my first wife, I had free travel privileges on United Airlines, so it was hard to justify paying thousands for a train. Since moving to Orcas Island in 2004, we have not traveled much and have no desire to go anywhere with COVID-19.

The condition of the rooms has increasingly become a problem. Low quality of food, poor on-time performance, and crew that are often ambivalent or surly are some of the things we have grown to expect on Amtrak. But my philosophy is, "Ride 'em while you can," since I view long-distance passenger trains as threatened with extinction in America.


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## drdumont (Aug 7, 2020)

I guess I fit in the general description of "Foamer". I traveled for over 35 years, and took Amtrak whenever the schedule would permit. Damn near got fired several times, as some companies for which I worked refused to book Amtrak, as the "Corporate Travel Bureau" said they "could not book Amtrak". In other words, management didn't get a kickback on Amtrak fares. I paid the difference over the air fare. Crescent, Meteors, Sunset, even the Starlight. Even then I still booked over 7 Million airline miles. 

Now that I am almost retired, I plan to add the Zephyr and the EB to my bag. I've got a wheeled cooler for food to make up for the crap now on the menu, scanner, computer, GPS, and of course a jug of snakebite medicine.
I really miss the diners, as I have experienced them beginning in the silver and china days up through the plastic and indifferent service days of late.
I sleep like a baby in the sleepers, tho I will ride a lot in the Big Glass Room.
As the old TV ads used to say, "There's something about a train".

Hi! My name is Doc, and I'm a foamer who I travels in the sleepers.


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## fdaley (Aug 7, 2020)

In the sleepers I have seen lots of retirees -- people who have the time and can afford the cost -- but also younger people, families, people who don't fly. Some are hard-core train buffs, and lots of others are partial to trains, even if they don't carry a scanner with them. On longer trips, there are a lot of people who revel in the time-out from daily life, who enjoy quality time with family or me-time if they're traveling alone. A fair number are bound for intermediate points that are difficult/costly or impossible to reach by plane. There may be some business travelers, but it's hard to tell; certainly no one is wearing a business suit and freshly polished shoes like the Pullman riders of old. I have also seen a fair number of first-time riders who almost invariably seem disappointed; often they seem to be expecting a cruise-ship level of luxury that Amtrak doesn't come anywhere close to delivering.

In my own case most of my sleeper trips have been for leisure travel. For most of the past 15 years, I made an annual trek with my wife and son from upstate New York to California to visit family there. Usually we took the direct route (Lake Shore & SW Chief) in one direction and planned a vacation stop somewhere else in the other direction, so we got to visit the Grand Canyon, Glenwood Springs, Glacier Park, Seattle, Portland, Jasper and so on. We've also done a fair number of trips to places short of the West Coast -- Tennessee, southern Virginia, New Mexico, Minnesota, New Orleans, Florida -- to visit family and friends. Most of my business travel has been in the Northeast on corridor trains or driving, though some of those trips have involved the Lake Shore Limited. I've also booked sleeper rooms for day use, such as Albany-Boston, Erie PA to Albany, or NYC to Lynchburg VA -- either alone or with my family -- just for the sake of privacy, comfort and, in the past, the food. If the food offerings don't improve from the current level, I doubt I will ever book another sleeper room on Amtrak -- certainly not for an overnight run.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 7, 2020)

CameraObscura76 said:


> I’m an Amtrak regular (or was pre-Covid) mainly because flying absolutely terrifies me but I also do appreciate seeing scenery and new places that I wouldn’t see otherwise.



While I have flown a few times, I am really quite uncomfortable flying. Flying leaves me arriving at my destination with my nerves shot, and doesn't make for a pleasant experience, for numerous compounding reasons.

To me, sleeper class is somewhat like cruising. My roomette is like my cabin (yea, smaller). The dining car is like the MDR. I can get up and walk around. The dining car use to offer some good basic meals.

Taking Amtrak s a pleasure when I get to wait up in the Acela lounge, where the attendant comes and gets me, and sends me down on the private elevators to the platform, when its approaching time to board. 

I don't want wait in endless airport lines. I don't like being interrogated by the KGB, ah, TSA. I don't like having to be all but stripped searched (hay, that is not a gun!).

Its been almost 20 years, and I still remember how I was treated by the TSA. I was "randomly" pulled out of the line for additional screening (I guess Italians are on a terrorist watch list). I was required to leave my 4 y.o. behind, unattended, all alone in the terminal while they escorted me to a private room. I kept trying to check on my kid thru the window, ignoring the TSA agent, and was accursed of being non-cooperative.


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## Lana J C (Aug 7, 2020)

Solo travelers


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## Sidney (Aug 7, 2020)

I agree that Amtrak has to reconfigure their Coach seating. An overnight sitting next to a stranger is the most unappealing aspect of a trip. I've had obese seat mates and a couple of times I was hit upon for money. It's so nice now you are guaranteed both seats to yourself now,but I'm sure that will end sooner than later. I have read people will bribe their attendant to keep the seat open. I just wish there was a way to keep the other seat open without paying full price for another seat. I actually asked if I could do that and they said no. If a roomette is too pricey for one night and there is business class I will opt for that. The Cardinal and LSL have single seats in BC. That is a guarantee.




I


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## fdaley (Aug 7, 2020)

Sidney said:


> I just wish there was a way to keep the other seat open without paying full price for another seat. I actually asked if I could do that and they said no.



At least three times in the past few years I have been in coach on the Lake Shore leaving Boston and seen solo travelers who presented two tickets so they could keep the seat next to them open, and the train crew respected that and would not allow anyone else to occupy the second seat. So there are at least some trains where they allow this. In one case, the solo traveler parked a cello case in the second seat.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 7, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Hmmm, seems like Amtrak is missing out on a source of revenue. They should think about it, once this COVID business is over.


The fact that they had disclaimers on their website and in the employee handbook indicates that they _did_ think about it and simply chose not to allow it.



fdaley said:


> At least three times in the past few years I have been in coach on the Lake Shore leaving Boston and seen solo travelers who presented two tickets so they could keep the seat next to them open, and the train crew respected that and would not allow anyone else to occupy the second seat. So there are at least some trains where they allow this. In one case, the solo traveler parked a cello case in the second seat.


According to Amtrak's website and handbook you had to claim a disability to purchase two valid coach seats for yourself. Otherwise they reserved the right to ignore or cancel one of them. I tried to find confirmation that this was still the case but it looks like the new Amtrak.com no longer addresses this.


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## railiner (Aug 7, 2020)

I don't see why someone could not purchase more than one seat, and be entitled to keep it. Heck, if they wanted to pay for the entire car, and have exclusive occupancy, that should be allowed too. Everyone gets the same first come, first served opportunity when space goes on sale...


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## Qapla (Aug 7, 2020)

They would probably be more agreeable to allowing someone to purchase the entire car than they would to allowing a single person to purchase two seats together.


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## Lonestar648 (Aug 8, 2020)

Before I retired, I worked out of Chicago, so most of my travels could be on Amtrak. I became very efficient getting my reports, memos, etc completed in my room on my way back home. I actually worked less at home than those who flew because they couldn’t do much work in a middle seat, waiting on a delayed flight, etc. Eventually, my whole team traveled on Amtrak whenever possible. We got to know many of the SCA. Oh I still flew, I have almost 3M miles on just one airline. When one granddaughter asked how much I traveled by train it got me thinking, so I went back through expense reports totaling up the actual miles based on Amtrak schedules. It was just short of 250k. I found several business people were always traveling between CHI and DC, PHL, NYC, MSP, DEN.


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## retrotimewarp (Aug 8, 2020)

I'm retired and a single traveler. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere, and that's an attitude one must embrace when riding Amtrak long haul. I have ridden mainly for the experience of the conveyance, and always book a roomette. For me, 50% of the experience has been meeting folks of all ages, persuasions and nationalities in the dining car. Usually I'll book a trip to meet friends or relatives. There's always an adventure to be had. Hitting a boulder and disabling the lead engine outside Albuquerque. Losing power and replacing an engine in Helper UT. Gingerly crawling along east of Denver because a tornado had just passed across the trackage. Boarding late in Grand Junction at Thanksgiving because a whacked out passenger had kicked out an upper level window and jumped into a snowbank outside Glenwood Springs (yes, they found him.) C'mon, who's up for adventure? 

I pray they bring the dining cars back on the western routes, but if not, I'll make adjustments and continue to earn my rewards points


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## Twinkletoes (Aug 8, 2020)

CameraObscura76 said:


> I’m an Amtrak regular (or was pre-Covid) mainly because flying absolutely terrifies me but I also do appreciate seeing scenery and new places that I wouldn’t see otherwise.
> My Amtrak preference would always be a roomette because I’m very introverted and the thought of having a stranger seated next to me for an entire trip (again, pre-Covid) just makes me rather uncomfortable and I enjoy having my own little private space with the added bonus of having meals included. That being said, I haven’t yet decided if it’s still worth the extra cost with the Flexible dining.


You are like me. I am terrified of flying and have been even before the TSA hyper security era. However, being seated with a stranger is a necessary part of those who need to travel coach in the Northeastern Corridor to travel to New York or DC or Albany to connect with a sleeper. Strangers generally are not the real problem. The most common type of problem strangers are people who are bad with social cues -- realizing their seatmate would like to dig into that 400 page novel in her lap or catch a snooze! Fortunately a polite, "excuse me but I'd like to ... "works
Rarely does one encounter the truly unpleasant--extreme obesity that spills across two seats or individuals who persist in attempting a pickup after being deflected several times. Even these situations can be handled by speaking to the attendant. Otherwise, I have had many pleasant conversations with interesting people. It helps to pass the time.


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## Shanghai (Aug 8, 2020)

I enjoy traveling by train. I nearly always travel in a sleeper because I like space and privacy. I am a million-mile flyer on two airlines but when I retired my preference changed to trains. We can travel to see our children and grandchildren conveniently by train. Our Amtrak station is 7 miles from our home, compared to 50 to 60 miles to the airports. When we visit our family in California, we break the trip in Chicago and spend one night in a hotel then take the two day trip to San Fransisco the following day. I am generally pleased with Amtrak.


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## Lonestar648 (Aug 8, 2020)

I forgot to say that since 2007 I always take one of my grandchildren on the train over night. Two of them loved the train so much that we have traveled several 5,000 - 6400 mile loops. 2020 trip got canceled unfortunately. 

on Business travel, when the doctors grounded me from flying for a year after a very severe ear infection, I created a spreadsheet showing average airfare between various cities and the fare going by Roomette, then deducting the hotel I wasn’t paying for. he was surprised that costs were very close, so he looked at my travel costs based on a month. I was always on or under budget each month and for the year, traveling 40-45 weeks a year. I approached this issue with costs verses costs, if there is minimal differences what difference does it make? In the end, even our SVP agreed and he was a hard liner.


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## drdumont (Aug 8, 2020)

Lonestar 648 - I always made sure there was no cost penalty to the Company. What I ran afoul of was the "Travel Counselor" company hired by my Company ave rakeoffs, upgrades and free cars to certain executives based on the travel volume. 
I eventually quit, started a Subch S Corporation and did what I used to do as a Contractor. Made more money, did what I wanted, the Company was able to write off more expenses, and I rode Amtrak whenever possible.


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## drdumont (Aug 8, 2020)

Shanghai - I did the cost comparison several times and usually came up with similar results. The benefits of arriving rested and relaxed, plus avoiding the practiced stupidity of the TSA outweighed whatever extra expenses there might have been.
Alas, I had to eschew Amtrak when there could have been a time crunch.


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## Big Green Chauvanist (Aug 8, 2020)

I'm old enough to remember the great "liners" the extinct railroads had plying the country. I never traveled on one, but vowed I would take a long distance train some day. By the time I finally did, Amtrak had arrived. I have gone cross country from coast to coast several times over the past decades. I have not done so since the food service went downhill (there seems to be so little vegetarian fare currently that that in itself would pose a problem for a three-day trip). But I have collected so many Amtrak points that I'd like to use them up before I'm finished traveling. I was once upgraded from a roommette to a bedroom and--another vow--I will choose a bedroom on that probably last trip. I dislike flying and enjoy looking out at the countryside, even if I've taken the same routes multiple times. It's the romance of the rails and so much easier to do when one has his or her own compartment.


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## drdumont (Aug 8, 2020)

Big Green Chauvanist said:


> I'm old enough to remember the great "liners" the extinct railroads had plying the country. I never traveled on one, but vowed I would take a long distance train some day. By the time I finally did, Amtrak had arrived. I have gone cross country from coast to coast several times over the past decades. I have not done so since the food service went downhill (there seems to be so little vegetarian fare currently that that in itself would pose a problem for a three-day trip). But I have collected so many Amtrak points that I'd like to use them up before I'm finished traveling. I was once upgraded from a roommette to a bedroom and--another vow--I will choose a bedroom on that probably last trip. I dislike flying and enjoy looking out at the countryside, even if I've taken the same routes multiple times. It's the romance of the rails and so much easier to do when one has his or her own compartment.


As stated before, I take my cooler on wheels and thus have food I like to replace the preprepared stuff. If you look at the menus, you might like what is presented, the fare is heavy on veggies and the sort of stuff which does not suit me. You MIGHT like it, as it appears typical of what menu writers seem to think is popular.
I put up with the crappy, declining service in the diners over the years. Although the loss of the classic diners and service is greatly mourned, the romance or whatever it is of traveling in my own space, watching the scenery go by, and relaxing in general still beats dealing with the horrors of air travel today.
And to be honest, I miss air travel the way it was in the "good old days", just as I miss the "good old days" of rail travel.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 8, 2020)

drdumont said:


> And to be honest, I miss air travel the way it was in the "good old days", just as I miss the "good old days" of rail travel.


HaHa, in the "good old days," we used to complain bitterly about the lousy quality of airline food (in coach, at least) and the cramped seating. Little did we know what was in store for us...


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## joelkfla (Aug 8, 2020)

Big Green Chauvanist said:


> I'm old enough to remember the great "liners" the extinct railroads had plying the country. I never traveled on one, but vowed I would take a long distance train some day. By the time I finally did, Amtrak had arrived.


I have a badly faded memory of riding the Southern Crescent while it was still being run by Southern Railway in defiance of Amtrak. I think it was in the 1970's, and I would have been traveling from California to somewhere in the Southeast. After doing some web research, I think I was on the Sunset Limited - Crescent thru-sleeper. I have just 2 vivid memories: creeping through the West Texas badlands on endless curves, and watching fresh food (including sides of meat, IIRC) being loaded onto the train, probably during the overnight in New Orleans. I also remember changing trains somewhere after NOLA, perhaps onto the Floridian at Birmingham on the way to a conference in Nashville. That was my first long distance train trip, and unfortunately my last until some 40 years later.

Here's a timetable from that period that I found on the web:


http://streamlinermemories.info/South/SRR78-4TT.pdf


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## SarahZ (Aug 8, 2020)

I never even considered a long-distance trip until 2010, when I met my boyfriend, who lived in Albuquerque. I couldn't afford a flight, so I looked into other options. I noticed Amtrak had a direct train to Albuquerque, and it was about half the price of a flight.

I traveled coach on that trip and had an immediate love/hate relationship. I hated sharing a seat with a stranger for 26 hours, and I couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep. I spent the entire trip in the lounge car and enjoyed the scenery.

My boyfriend eventually moved to Michigan. He was _terrified_ of flying, so any time we traveled anywhere, we took the train. We tried coach for our first LD trip, thinking that sitting next to each other would make it more comfortable, but I still couldn't sleep. We were both cranky the second day and fought about stupid things we normally wouldn't fight about, so we decided to get a roomette on every trip thereafter.

After we broke up, I spent some time traveling around the country, mostly to experience the routes I hadn't traveled yet. I booked a sleeper each time, for the reasons mentioned above.

Now that I've seen most of the routes (and time and money are both an issue), I'm back to flying whenever I travel long-distance. I actually like flying and prefer it to the train for several reasons.

There are a few Amtrak routes I haven't seen yet, so those are on the list for the future, along with all of the Canadian routes.


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## tricia (Aug 9, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> I have a badly faded memory of riding the Southern Crescent while it was still being run by Southern Railway in defiance of Amtrak. I think it was in the 1970's, and I would have been traveling from California to somewhere in the Southeast. After doing some web research, I think I was on the Sunset Limited - Crescent thru-sleeper. I have just 2 vivid memories: creeping through the West Texas badlands on endless curves, and watching fresh food (including sides of meat, IIRC) being loaded onto the train, probably during the overnight in New Orleans. I also remember changing trains somewhere after NOLA, perhaps onto the Floridian at Birmingham on the way to a conference in Nashville. That was my first long distance train trip, and unfortunately my last until some 40 years later.
> 
> Here's a timetable from that period that I found on the web:
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting that. I too have a badly faded memory of this train. Heavy metal flatware stamped with the train's brand IIRC--even at the time it seemed like a leftover from better days.


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## NativeSon5859 (Aug 9, 2020)

I grew up in a family that flew everywhere. Yet my grandparents owned some land near Hattiesburg, MS, so about once a month we’d take the train there. This went on for years (during the 1980s), and those trips sealed my love for trains. Of course I liked to fly, but the first time I ever took a Sleeping Car (2004, Sunset Limited JAX-NOL), it was love at first ride. It felt like being in my own little time capsule, far away from the problems of normal life. I loved every second of the experience, so I vowed to continue doing it.

I’ve been on all the LD routes multiple times, I’ve witnessed the downgrades in service, yet I keep going back, because I like the fact that the train forces you to slow down. And just laying there at night in the Roomette, looking up at the stars, it’s just perfect for me. I don’t care if it takes two days as opposed to a four hour flight. If I can, I’ll avoid air travel and take a sleeper to wherever I have to go, “assuming the train can get me there”. Amtrak can count on me as a Sleeping Car customer on its LD network for as long as they are running because it’s the most enjoyable way to travel (for me). Ive used the train for business travel (Chicago, mostly, due to the perfect overnight schedule) as well as vacations and simple joy rides.


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## railiner (Aug 9, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> I have a badly faded memory of riding the Southern Crescent while it was still being run by Southern Railway in defiance of Amtrak. I think it was in the 1970's, and I would have been traveling from California to somewhere in the Southeast. After doing some web research, I think I was on the Sunset Limited - Crescent thru-sleeper. I have just 2 vivid memories: creeping through the West Texas badlands on endless curves, and watching fresh food (including sides of meat, IIRC) being loaded onto the train, probably during the overnight in New Orleans. I also remember changing trains somewhere after NOLA, perhaps onto the Floridian at Birmingham on the way to a conference in Nashville. That was my first long distance train trip, and unfortunately my last until some 40 years later.
> 
> Here's a timetable from that period that I found on the web:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that timetable link...brought back some great memories...



http://streamlinermemories.info/South/SouthernDinnerMenu2.pdf



And this sad one...









He Even Brought His Own Pots and Pans (Published 1978)


Illus




www.nytimes.com


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## Wolverine72 (Aug 9, 2020)

Any trip I do overnight is in a sleeper. The food is generally pretty good and filling so I only do two of those meals a day.
I tried an overnight in coach once. That was enough for me.


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## Qapla (Aug 9, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> in the "good old days," we used to complain bitterly about the lousy quality of airline food



I have never complained about airline food ...


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## drdumont (Aug 9, 2020)

MARC Rider:
Actually, I was referring to THE Good Old Days. Like the 50s and 60s...
I think I was born 40 years too late...


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## MARC Rider (Aug 9, 2020)

drdumont said:


> MARC Rider:
> Actually, I was referring to THE Good Old Days. Like the 50s and 60s...
> I think I was born 40 years too late...


OK, (1), I was half Joking, and (2):

By the end of the 60s, when I started flying on airplanes, it was common to joke abut the perceived poor food quality, in coach, at least. "Such lousy food, and the portions are too small!" I think there was was also something about how the chefs for the airlines hadn't yet perfected techniques to make food taste good when served under the low pressure (~8000 ft. altitude) and low humidity conditions of the typical airline cabin. I particularly remember a nasty pot roast served up by El Al out of New York in 1971, but to be fair, they served up a good New York lox and bagel sandwich for breakfast. When I flew El Al in 1989, I think they served the same thing, but the recipe had improved. The best coach in-flight service I ever had was on British Airways in 1985. They not only served us our choice of cocktail, wine with dinner, and after-dinner drink (not top-shelf, but not nasty, either), they also had the steward serve us our main dish (some kind of roast beef) individually, with silver tongs.

During the period 1970 - 1990, my personal experience was the the food was nothing to write home about, but it was perfectly serviceable. When I used to fly to and from college PHL -ORD, I would make it my business to get a meal flight, not because the food was so great, but because if I didn't, meal time would occur when I was at the airport, and the food options at airports back then were much worse than what was served on the plane. Plus it would have been extra money out of my poor student pocket.

I noticed that things were going downhill some time around 1986. First my breakfast flight from Dulles to Denver on Frank Lorenzo's Continental had a menu choice of cereal, yogurt, breakfast sandwich, pick 2. Then, when I was at Stapleton waiting to fly home, I finally noticed that the terminal had been redesigned, and with the crowd, much larger than back in my college days, it had all the ambiance of a bus terminal. Then there was an American flight to Chicago in the 1990s where we picked up a bag lunch from a cooler at the gate. You could still get reasonably full service on longer flights, but soon after 9/11, that all went away.


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## jruff001 (Aug 10, 2020)

Interesting thread. I don't quite fall into any of the five buckets Nick Farr outlined in his original post, though I agree that captures a lot of the sleeping car ridership. I suppose of those options, "Railfan" comes closest to me. I don't think I rise to the "foamer" level - for example, I don't have a scanner! - but why else would I choose to take an overnight (or multi-overnight) train trip and sacrifice time either at home or at my destination when I could just get the trip over with in a couple of hours by plane?

I do it because I find travel in a sleeper extraordinarily relaxing. I could look out the window at the world going by forever. I also find traveling alone in a roomette (let alone a bedroom) a luxurious way of traveling these days compared to the other options out there. (Two people is nice as well, but gets a bit cramped in a roomette, so not "luxurious.") Yes I know people will have trouble with that word because there have been cutbacks to dining car service, and some of the rooms are in less than perfect shape, and the on-board attendants can be nasty, etc., so maybe the right term is not "luxury." I am talking about purely from a personal space perspective. A private plane or varnish is beyond reasonable financial reach for most of us so leaving those aside, what other way is there to travel around the U.S. and be able to stretch out, sleep, work (with free WiFi), chill, etc., with so much space? Car? Bus? "First Class" domestic airplane seat? No to all of those.

So I take a sleeper whenever it is realistic which, unfortunately, is not very often. I travel by plane a lot for work but can never make Amtrak's schedules work for me for business trips, especially taking into account the reliability factor. I try to take a train for personal travel when I can but then it comes down to the fact that I only have limited time off and have to make the best of it, so that usually means flying. But I always at least consider Amtrak and will go through some degree of inconvenience or time sacrifice to do it. I hope when I retire I'll be able to do it more - if the long-distance network is still around.


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## Exvalley (Aug 10, 2020)

jruff001 said:


> I travel by plane a lot for work but can never make Amtrak's schedules work for me for business trips, *especially taking into account the reliability factor.*


This is a huge issue for me as a business traveler. When I take the Lake Shore Limited to Chicago, the earliest I will schedule a meeting is 1:00 PM and even then I am somewhat nervous.


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## Sidney (Aug 10, 2020)

I have been taking Amtrak for over thirty years. In 1990 I was going to fly to a convention in LA from Pa. The cost was a bit much,so I thought about taking the train. Once I got on the Southwest Chief I was hooked. Ever since,I ve been taking Amtrak across the country for vacations. I ve done most of my early trips in Coach. I never minded three days in a seat,but as I got older the lure of a sleeper captivated me and these days I ll take Coach to Chicago and a roomette to the West Coast.

I don't carry a scanner so I wouldn't consider myself a foamer,even though I still get that wonderful feeling everytime I see a train coming. Traveling in a sleeper watching the world go by in my own little world is one of life's great pleasures. I've been on every LD route many times and it never gets old. I do miss full service dining


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## Exvalley (Aug 10, 2020)

I am not at all a foamer. The train itself does not excite me. It's the scenery that appeals to me. I love to watch the country through the window. Being able to sit back and soak it all in makes the train much better than driving.

But here is where I differ from most. I find even the "un-scenic" parts to be interesting. Traveling by abandoned steel mills in Ohio and Indiana is just as interesting to me as mountain vistas. It all paints a picture of our country and its history. Every snapshot out of the window has its own story to tell and I like to daydream about what that story might be.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 10, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> This is a huge issue for me as a business traveler. When I take the Lake Shore Limited to Chicago, the earliest I will schedule a meeting is 1:00 PM and even then I am somewhat nervous.


I know what you mean. When I used to take the Capitol Limited to Chicago for a conference that started at noon, I'd have to come out the day before after arriving late one year, and that took some fast talking to convince the managers that an extra day on the road was worthwhile. Mind you, if the train kept to schedule, it would arrive at about 9 AM, which would be plenty of time, even if the conference site was out by O'Hare Airport.

In fact, keeping reliably to schedule is far more important to me than the nature of the food service. Other important things: working equipment (HVAC, toilets, etc.) and safety. Cleaning the insides of the cars is also a high priority for me. As for food, it doesn't have to be too fancy, but, yeah, Flex dining is going a little too far. But I'd still ride the train anyway, just make stopovers, so I don't have multiple days of Flex dining all at once.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 10, 2020)

joelkfla said:


> I have a badly faded memory of riding the Southern Crescent while it was still being run by Southern Railway in defiance of Amtrak.
> 
> 
> http://streamlinermemories.info/South/SRR78-4TT.pdf


Give that the Southern Crescent was operated by Amtrak between New York and Washington, and that the Southern advertised connections via Amtrak at New Orleans to Los Angeles (including operating a through sleeping car), I wouldn't say that the Southern Crescent was being run in _*defiance*_ of Amtrak. I suppose in 1971, the Southern Railway figured that it would be cheaper to continue to run their trains rather than pay the fee to join Amtrak. At some point, obviously, that changed.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 10, 2020)

jruff001 said:


> I do it because I find travel in a sleeper extraordinarily relaxing. I could look out the window at the world going by forever. I also find traveling alone in a roomette (let alone a bedroom) a luxurious way of traveling these days compared to the other options out there.





Exvalley said:


> It's the scenery that appeals to me. I love to watch the country through the window. Being able to sit back and soak it all in makes the train much better than driving...I find even the "un-scenic" parts to be interesting. Traveling by abandoned steel mills in Ohio and Indiana is just as interesting to me as mountain vistas. It all paints a picture of our country and its history.



These two ideas perfectly capture it for me as well. When I travel to RNO it's usually for a week or so of work out in the middle of nowhere. The views are great and I love having the space and privacy to relax while the world goes by. If I want to socialize, I have options to do that, otherwise I'm just content to prepare myself or unwind from a longer journey.

I'm not sure how Amtrak can preserve this service and be "profitable". From a societal standpoint, I feel there is value in preserving this kind of travel and routes simply as a "backup" to air and vehicle travel AND as an accommodation for those who can't fly or greyhound.


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## crescent-zephyr (Aug 10, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> But here is where I differ from most. I find even the "un-scenic" parts to be interesting. Traveling by abandoned steel mills in Ohio and Indiana is just as interesting to me as mountain vistas. It all paints a picture of our country and its history. Every snapshot out of the window has its own story to tell and I like to daydream about what that story might be.



Oh I agree with this! Certainly I love the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and that section of the Zephyr is my favorite of any train trip I’ve taken. But yes... seeing the catfish farms in Mississippi, small southern downtowns in North Carolina, rows of corn in Illinois, abandoned industries in Alabama and watching for Aligators in Florida and Louisiana are all very interesting as well.


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## Larry H. (Aug 10, 2020)

I took a couple of coach overnights, that was when I was very young yet, around 1960. One was a dreadful trip from New York City to St. Louis at Christmas. They ran coaches that didn't have reclining seats, no water in the cars other than the diner which was pretty much a joke. It was below freezing outside and the windows were iced over the entire trip.. Then there were a few Milk Runs on the Missouri Pacific to Kansas City from St. Louis. I don't think I slept a wink on those either. After that I decided any overnight trip would be by Pullman. They were still wonderfully run at that point. Just being away if you wanted to from all the chaos the coaches could be with people hanging out over the aisles trying to sleep made me love the sleepers. I know a lot of people say the cost ratio between a coach and a bedroom are still the same. Somehow I just doubt it. I never made much money and in the earlier days of my travel by train you could upgrade to a pullman room for what then seemed to be a pretty reasonable difference in cost. Now the differences are huge in my book. Still If I take another long distance rail trip it will still be by sleeper. Yes they are dingy, yes the food can be awful, and the service at times snarly. But as many say something about a train on the rails and scenery passing by is enough to make me very happy when it happens. If you never experienced the fine trains of the past I feel for you, the Amtrak Experience is much different when everything is the same, you can't tell one from the other anymore which is some way not quite as exciting as boarding a name train with all its variations in diners, lounges, even the coach cars were a part of the consist, not to mention the excitement of seeing a wonderfully painted exterior like the Union Pacific had or the Stainless Steel of the Zephyrs or Green of the Empire Builder. It was an all encompassing effect that made part of the trip.


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## Nick Farr (Aug 11, 2020)

jruff001 said:


> I do it because I find travel in a sleeper extraordinarily relaxing. I could look out the window at the world going by forever. I also find traveling alone in a roomette (let alone a bedroom) a luxurious way of traveling these days compared to the other options out there.





Exvalley said:


> It's the scenery that appeals to me. I love to watch the country through the window. Being able to sit back and soak it all in makes the train much better than driving...I find even the "un-scenic" parts to be interesting. Traveling by abandoned steel mills in Ohio and Indiana is just as interesting to me as mountain vistas. It all paints a picture of our country and its history.



These two ideas perfectly capture it for me as well. When I travel to RNO it's usually for a week or so of work out in the middle of nowhere. The views are great and I love having the space and privacy to relax while the world goes by. If I want to socialize, I have options to do that, otherwise I'm just content to prepare myself or unwind from a longer journey. 

I'm not sure how Amtrak can preserve this service and be "profitable". From a societal standpoint, I feel there is value in preserving this kind of travel and routes along heritage, defense and transportation alternative lines. I know that Congressional support is the only reason these routes still exist at all, perhaps there's a way we could keep Congress out of the specifics of running these lines?


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## mitako (Aug 11, 2020)

Exvalley said:


> But here is where I differ from most. I find even the "un-scenic" parts to be interesting. Traveling by abandoned steel mills in Ohio and Indiana is just as interesting to me as mountain vistas. It all paints a picture of our country and its history. Every snapshot out of the window has its own story to tell and I like to daydream about what that story might be.


YES. I think my time on a train is the most "mindful" I ever feel. For most of the trip, I listen to music and stare out the window. Gorgeous scenery, rundown dirt-poor towns, industrial areas, agricultural areas...... I watch it all go by without any judgement at all and an open, interested mind. I'm never so blissfully mindful anywhere else.


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## Qapla (Aug 11, 2020)

The first time I rode the SM from NY I was told there was some good scenery "once you get out of NJ" ... well, I live in the country and have seen the countryside on a daily basis. I found the scenery coming through NJ to be rather interesting - especially since I do not live anywhere near a population density of that magnitude.

The fact is, once you start getting far enough south, the tracks run through miles-and-miles of trees on both sides of the track so there is not much "scenery" to see.


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## TEREB (Aug 11, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> The very first time I traveled on Amtrak (3 or so years ago), my sister and I were assigned to the H room. We hadn't asked for it and paid the same price as the roomette we thought we would be traveling in. I don't know why Amtrak changed us from a roomette to the H room, but it gave me the opportunity to practice my flute without bothering other people.


We were once "upgraded" to the H bedroom on one of the silvers. They did call and asked if we were willing to change bedrooms. It seems there was a family that needed 2 bedrooms together. I guess with small children. Of course we said yes. I remember traveling coach NYP to FBG with 2 children and no one willing to change seats so I could at least sit with my youngest child.


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## cirdan (Aug 11, 2020)

Shortline said:


> And the pricing, seems to be modeled for the land cruise market. I honestly have a hard time justifying the train, a lot of times. In a week or so, I need to be in Scranton. I can fly, in 4 hours, first class for $618. The train, to Philadelphia, is $820, and I'm still 2 hours dive away. Just going to have to fly. Even roomettes, tend to be hundreds more, than the same trip in first class by air. Honestly, it's like Heroin. I know it's bad for me (time wise, and money wise) and I know it's going to be disappointing. But I still do it. 6-10 trips a year. Plus, the occasional Acela trip between NYC and WAS (those, actually make sense to me). But the long distance trains, are just getting really hard to justify anymore. But I do. Not even sure why anymore!



This is probably small consolation to you. But speaking as a tourist from Europe who comes to the USA specially to ride trains, I must say that with the exception of the NEC, Amtrak is far cheaper than most trains in Europe on a dollar per mile basis when you look at something with comparable levels of amenities.

Yet even so, even here at home, I take the train almost all the time, even when it's more costly, because it's just more comfortable and I don't have to worry about what I can and cannot pack in my luggage or what airport security are going to do this time.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 11, 2020)

Way way long ago as a young adult I pursued my love of railroad travel during the declining years of the golden era... venturing out West, to the southeast, the Appalachians, eastern cities, and western shores.

Coming back to Amtrak travel about 20 years ago, it my every intent to be a first class traveler enjoying an actual bed so as to be lulled to sleep by the rails... and to me... nothing can compare! Also enjoyed the camaraderie of making new friends in the sightseer car and while dining on some rather indulgent meals. I mean... when you're sitting around a table with other travelers, sipping red wind and enjoying steak, shrimp, and baked potato as the world speeds by out the window... of course there's going to be upbeat conversation and friendships made.

Speaking of making friends, that happened with a couple a few years ago and we have been keeping in touch ever since... and although it is rare to establish long lasting friendships from chance meetings with people... it does happen.

Towards the end of my second grand adventures on Amtrak... establishing Executive Plus status and raking up the points, things started to happen. The roomette was either too hot or too cold; food started to become more standardized; chinaware and glassware were replaced with plastic; there were more breakdowns and mechanical problems; remembering once when a fire alarm just outside the room started 'chirping' and keeping me up. The conductor warned me it was a 'federal offense' to remove that battery which would have brought peace... and that coveted sleep.

Sadly the restaurant cars on eastern routes were replaced by what could now be described as an 'upgraded version' of the new 'flex dining.' Then that too began to decline. And just when it seemed that things just couldn't get any worse... the pandemic hit. That recently ended the 2nd phase of my rail travel experience.

I wonder if there will be a third chapter for this rail enthusiast???


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## Shortline (Aug 11, 2020)

I had booked Birmingham to Philadelphia, and back next week for a meeting I have in Scranton. But on a whim....and since I have have some projects to work on, figured I can do it on the train, as easy as I can working at home, so making another trip up largely for the heck of it burning up some e-vouchers that were getting close to expiration.

Flying to Los Angeles, early Thursday (Aug 13th)

Los Angeles-Chicago Aug 13-15 Southwest Chief Family Bedroom
Chicago-Newark Aug 15-16 Cardinal Roomette (This train, and the Coast Starlight are the only name trains I haven't been on yet)
Newark-Philadelphia Aug 17 Acela First Class

Philadelphia-back home to Birmingham Aug 19-20 Crescent Roomette


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## gwolfdog (Aug 12, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> Way way long ago as a young adult I pursued my love of railroad travel during the declining years of the golden era... venturing out West, to the southeast, the Appalachians, eastern cities, and western shores.
> 
> Coming back to Amtrak travel about 20 years ago, it my every intent to be a first class traveler enjoying an actual bed so as to be lulled to sleep by the rails... and to me... nothing can compare! Also enjoyed the camaraderie of making new friends in the sightseer car and while dining on some rather indulgent meals. I mean... when you're sitting around a table with other travelers, sipping red wind and enjoying steak, shrimp, and baked potato as the world speeds by out the window... of course there's going to be upbeat conversation and friendships made.
> 
> ...


Getting ready to hit 73, I have to constantly remind myself not to think about or talk to others about the "good old days". Watching TV the other day, I remembered having only three station to watch. Now we have hundred's of options, that really don't seem much better. Anything beats Greyhound!


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 12, 2020)

gwolfdog said:


> Getting ready to hit 73, I have to constantly remind myself not to think about or talk to others about the "good old days". Watching TV the other day, I remembered having only three station to watch. Now we have hundred's of options, that really don't seem much better. Anything beats Greyhound!


Me too! I'm getting ready to hit 73! Guess there's a lot of us boomers on this site... growing up in MIlwaukee, Happy Days was for sure one of my favorite TV series... with Bonanza a close second.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 12, 2020)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Oh I agree with this! Certainly I love the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and that section of the Zephyr is my favorite of any train trip I’ve taken. But yes... seeing the catfish farms in Mississippi, small southern downtowns in North Carolina, rows of corn in Illinois, abandoned industries in Alabama and watching for Aligators in Florida and Louisiana are all very interesting as well.


Rolling through the orange groves in Florida when the oranges are still on the trees is pretty cool. Also, once I rode the Carolinian in September right before the cotton harvest, and all the fluffy cotton in the fields in southern Virginia and North Carolina was pretty interesting to see.

On the Empire builder, outside of Havre, there was a coyote sitting by the tracks watching the train. At the right time of day, you can see deer along the NEC just north of BWI station.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 12, 2020)

Aaah... the scenery... not yet claimed to urban sprawl, there is still a lot to see. Some of my favorite views are from the Texas Eagle as it crosses the bridge into St. Louis with stunning view of the 640 foot Arch framing the city skyline... the Cardinal as it winds its way through the Appalachians... spectacular in all seasons... and can go on and on about jaw dropping scenes from the Zephyr and the Empire Builder. 

Contrasting the decline in service, the scenery remains timelessly beautiful!


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 12, 2020)

gwolfdog said:


> Getting ready to hit 73, I have to constantly remind myself not to think about or talk to others about the "good old days". Watching TV the other day, I remembered having only three station to watch. Now we have hundred's of options, that really don't seem much better. Anything beats Greyhound!



If we don't talk about the "good old days", what else would we talk about to youngsters? I don't text, so what, using verbal communications? ☎


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## MARC Rider (Aug 13, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Rolling through the orange groves in Florida when the oranges are still on the trees is pretty cool. Also, once I rode the Carolinian in September right before the cotton harvest, and all the fluffy cotton in the fields in southern Virginia and North Carolina was pretty interesting to see.
> 
> On the Empire builder, outside of Havre, there was a coyote sitting by the tracks watching the train. At the right time of day, you can see deer along the NEC just north of BWI station.


Of course, deer are no big deal, I can sometimes see them from my living room window, and we live in Baltimore City!


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 13, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Of course, deer are no big deal, I can sometimes see them from my living room window, and we live in Baltimore City!
> 
> View attachment 18420


My biggest concern would be that these beautiful animals stay off the tracks and don't get hurt!


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## joelkfla (Aug 13, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Of course, deer are no big deal, I can sometimes see them from my living room window, and we live in Baltimore City!
> 
> View attachment 18420


They still are to me! I've lived in Brooklyn, Long Island, SF, San Jose, Boulder, and now near Orlando, and I've never seen a deer from my house. I _have _seen a fair number of skunks and possums.


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## RichieRich (Aug 13, 2020)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> If we don't talk about the "good old days", what else would we talk about to youngsters? I don't text, so what, using verbal communications? ☎


I do not even _own _a cell phone! When the neighbor little kid came over, I handed him a "Princess Rotary phone" and told him to call to say he was here. He picked up the receiver and said "Call Mommie" to it! LOL LOL Tried to teach him how it worked, but he never got the hang of "dialing"! LOL
Oh, and we always get 2 adjoining bedrooms on the A/T.


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## me_little_me (Aug 13, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Of course, deer are no big deal, I can sometimes see them from my living room window, and we live in Baltimore City!
> 
> View attachment 18420


As for my future LD travel, my only thoughts on seeing deer like that is that I wish flex dining looked that tasty.


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## Eric S (Aug 13, 2020)

It can't be all that surprising that a "little kid" would be unfamiliar with technology that has been obsolete for, what, 4+ decades.


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## RichieRich (Aug 13, 2020)

Eric S said:


> It can't be all that surprising that a "little kid" would be unfamiliar with technology that has been obsolete for, what, 4+ decades.


Equally as funny as a 73 yo that has no clue how to work the kids tablet or electronic device or whatever they call the things.! Or teaching someone today how to drive a stick-shift! LOL


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## PVD (Aug 13, 2020)

Living on Long Island, I'm a bit surprised, unless you rarely went out East there are about 20,000 , with a pretty high density. About 1500 on Staten Island.


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## pennyk (Aug 13, 2020)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please try to keep your comments on the topic of "Who travels in Sleeper Cars." Thank you


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 13, 2020)

RichieRich said:


> Equally as funny as a 73 yo that has no clue how to work the kids tablet or electronic device or whatever they call the things.! Or teaching someone today how to drive a stick-shift! LOL


I'm right behind you RichieRich... 73rd Bday coming up soooon! In keeping on the topic, the actual reason I finally bought a smart phone was because I was on a LD sleeper car running 15 hours late... I remember the panicked situation of trying to contact the hotel to cancel my reservation! The SLA let me use her's if I promised to buy a cell phone. So... Moral of the story is: all who travel on these LD trains need to have a cell phone!


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## Dakota 400 (Aug 13, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> So... Moral of the story is: all who travel on these LD trains need to have a cell phone!



I am thinking it is not just traveling on Amtrak that is going to require a smart phone, it is traveling to anywhere by any means of transportation. Check-in at hotels, even on cruises any more, having a smart phone is an advantage. 

When I travel on Amtrak, it is almost always an overnight or two type trip. I don't sleep well in a coach seat (although, maybe if I drank enough wine before retiring for the night, I might). I enjoy what I feel is the "luxury" of booking a sleeper because when I first could travel by train, being able to afford a sleeper was a "luxury" for me at that time. I still consider a sleeper in such a category regardless of the change in service and amenities over the years.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 13, 2020)

...


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## neroden (Aug 15, 2020)

Nick Farr said:


> Eeep! I totally forgot elderly couples with mobility issues! I think that's the only kind of passenger I've ever seen in the Handicapped rooms (except for the SCA or Conductor)


Don't forget younger couples with mobility issues!


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## CameraObscura76 (Aug 16, 2020)

Sidney said:


> I agree that Amtrak has to reconfigure their Coach seating. An overnight sitting next to a stranger is the most unappealing aspect of a trip. I've had obese seat mates and a couple of times I was hit upon for money. It's so nice now you are guaranteed both seats to yourself now,but I'm sure that will end sooner than later. I have read people will bribe their attendant to keep the seat open. I just wish there was a way to keep the other seat open without paying full price for another seat. I actually asked if I could do that and they said no. If a roomette is too pricey for one night and there is business class I will opt for that. The Cardinal and LSL have single seats in BC. That is a guarantee.
> 
> _I’ve had obese seat mates which is always awkward, but the worst was my sleeping seatmate ended up putting her bare feet on my lap- that’s a definite no from me. After that unpleasant experience, I either book two coach seats or a roomette when budget allows._
> 
> ...


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 16, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> At the right time of day, you can see deer along the NEC just north of BWI station.



While waiting for a northbound train at BWI I watch a deer run across the tracks at the south end as an Acela was going through. Luckily the deer made it across ...


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## TheCrescent (Aug 16, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Business people. My son had to take multiple trips to NYC from Atlanta to visit customers. He found he could spend the day at work, then say good bye to the family then catch the overnight sleeper to NYC while giving him an opportunity to do work on the computer and arrive in NYC in early afternoon in time to meet with one or two customers.
> He no longer needs to visit customers but he probably would not do that any more since he would not at all enjoy either the dinner or the breakfast and at the price, he could fly first class. My statement reflects pre-Covid, but post-garbage food travel vs pre-garbage days.



Exactly.

I took the Crescent a few times recently because I figured that a private sleeping car room is safer than flying in the age of coronavirus, and since I can work or sleep the whole time on board means that the wasted time on a train trip is less than the wasted time flying.

I can afford to fly, and I frequently fly paid first class.

The garbage meals on Amtrak, particularly the awful Flexible Dining breakfasts and no lunch as you approach NYC, have reduced any desire I have to do it again. The spotty wifi and shaky Viewliner rooms are a secondary disincentive. The food is the worst!


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## Nick Farr (Aug 16, 2020)

neroden said:


> Don't forget younger couples with mobility issues!



I can't wait to see them or encourage them to travel!


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## TEREB (Aug 16, 2020)

I've been traveling by train for almost all my 73 years on this earth. I actually start missing it if it's longer than 6 months between trips. 
Our first Silver trip might have been in 1999. First and last time in coach. We've been snowbirds for the past 12 years so we're on one of the Silvers 2-4 times a year, in roomettes or bedrooms. For us now it's a way to unwind and relax. 
Our priest once asked me why do we travel 27 hrs on a train when we can get there in 3 hrs by plane. I showed him pictures on my phone of a sky writer finish writing Love Is God. I asked him if we could have seen that if we flew.


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## Eric in East County (Aug 17, 2020)

Nick,

A most interesting survey.

As for ourselves, we fall into several overlapping categories: we are train fans, scanner enthusiasts, seniors (who are still active and mobile), occasional long-distance travelers who don’t like to fly, people who like the extra space that a private bedroom offers, people who like having their own private bathroom facilities when they travel, and a couple that likes the option of taking their meals in the privacy of their own bedroom if they so desire.

Since we’re not heavy eaters, we’re not too concerned about the reduced meal portions. (On some of our past Amtrak trips, the meals we received were actually too large for us.)

We no longer do all that much long-distance traveling, but we have family back in Ohio whom we like to visit every so often. A private bedroom on Amtrak is about the only acceptable option for us to get from California to Ohio and back.

As long as Amtrak offers sleeping car bedrooms, we will continue to use it for our long-distance travel.

Eric & Pat


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## Dakota 400 (Aug 17, 2020)

TheCrescent said:


> I can afford to fly, and I frequently fly paid first class.
> 
> The garbage meals on Amtrak, particularly the awful Flexible Dining breakfasts and no lunch as you approach NYC, have reduced any desire I have to do it again. The spotty wifi and shaky Viewliner rooms are a secondary disincentive. The food is the worst!



This person is a type of guest that I think Amtrak can ill afford to alienate. 

When one flies, one usually has a choice between First Class or Economy. Amtrak supplies the same choice on many trains. A Sleeper is still thought of as being "First Class" whether it is called that or not. Downgrading their "First Class" service is not going to encourage those who wish to pay for such to spend the money required to do so. One's most recent experience with a transportation company, a hotel, a restaurant, a car dealership, etc. is the one you are most likely to remember. That experience may determine if one patronizes that company again or--the next time--chooses something/somewhere else.


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## Skyline (Aug 18, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> Me too! I'm getting ready to hit 73! Guess there's a lot of us boomers on this site... growing up in MIlwaukee, Happy Days was for sure one of my favorite TV series... with Bonanza a close second.



There are a lot from the '50s and '60s that are a stain on the nation's history. But the quality of passenger trains, and perhaps a few TV shows LOL, are not among those. I feel fortunate to have been able to ride trains in the '60s thru the '80s that are only a distant memory today. People born after about 1970 will never know what they've missed.


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## 20th Century Rider (Aug 18, 2020)

Skyline said:


> There are a lot from the '50s and '60s that are a stain on the nation's history. But the quality of passenger trains, and perhaps a few TV shows LOL, are not among those. I feel fortunate to have been able to ride trains in the '60s thru the '80s that are only a distant memory today. People born after about 1970 will never know what they've missed.


Oh my... now you have me reminiscing on the good old days of rail travel... I went to undergraduate school at Wisconsin State, Superior... because it was in the northern vacation lands... went with college friends on canoe trips in the Quetico at the end of the Gunflint Trail in northern MN. Anyway... going back and forth from my home in Milwaukee involved a train adventure... boarding the Milwaukee Road Haiwatha which went through both the Dells and Devil's lake... passing Pewaukee Lake where I went fishing with my family when I was in grade school. Changed trains in MInneapolis... and found a picture of the Great Northern Badger as it was pulling into Superior WI. Oh my! What memories and what adventures to be had! 

These were 'my trains!'


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## Asher (Aug 19, 2020)

20th Century Rider said:


> Oh my... now you have me reminiscing on the good old days of rail travel... I went to undergraduate school at Wisconsin State, Superior... because it was in the northern vacation lands... went with college friends on canoe trips in the Quetico at the end of the Gunflint Trail in northern MN. Anyway... going back and forth from my home in Milwaukee involved a train adventure... boarding the Milwaukee Road Haiwatha which went through both the Dells and Devil's lake... passing Pewaukee Lake where I went fishing with my family when I was in grade school. Changed trains in MInneapolis... and found a picture of the Great Northern Badger as it was pulling into Superior WI. Oh my! What memories and what adventures to be had!
> 
> These were 'my trains!'
> 
> ...


That's a nice look, an EMD F7A two smoker leading that consist into Pewaukee


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## WICT106 (Aug 20, 2020)

** Minor quibble** : The MILW went via the Dells, while the CNW went past Devil's Lake, WI.


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## Shanghai (Aug 26, 2020)

Another experience my family had with sleeper travel. When we lived in Europe, we took the Orient Express from
Budapest to Paris in a double bedroom sleeper. It was nice but no toilet or shower in either room. We also took
a German train from Berlin to Malmo, Sweden and the bedrooms did not have toilets. I find the Amtrak bedroom
much more comfortable than my European experiences.


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