# Portland Streetcar Expansion Opens Saturday



## fairviewroad (Sep 17, 2012)

Portland's Streetcar is expanding across the Willamette River and opens with free rides all weekend long. Details here:

http://portlandstreetcar.org/



> The Portland Streetcar is excited to open its newest line, the Central Loop, on September 22, 2012. The celebrations will start at 10:00AM with a Press Event and speeches at the OMSI Plaza in SE Portland. Service will begin by 11:00AM following the press event and the departure of the first, ceremonial train. The Central Loop will connect with the existing streetcar on 10th & 11th in Downtown Portland. From there it will cross the Broadway Bridge traveling along Broadway, Weidler, 7th, MLK and Grand connecting to the Rose Quarter, Lloyd District, Oregon Convention Center, the Central Eastside Industrial District and OMSI.


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 18, 2012)

A cool expansion of the streetcar, and not to be confused with the MAX light rail trains, which have been operating on both sides of the river for years.


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## fairviewroad (Sep 18, 2012)

WhoozOn1st said:


> A cool expansion of the streetcar, and not to be confused with the MAX light rail trains, which have been operating on both sides of the river for years.


You're right. The streetcar is more of a downtown circulator, whereas the MAX light rail functions more as a commuter rail system.


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## fairviewroad (Sep 21, 2012)

Here's a map of the new route:

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/2012/09/gs61muse121-02jpg-361bf120547fbbfa.jpg

And if you're in the neighborhood, you can check out the new Oregon Rail Heritage Center:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_rail_center_is_now_arri.html


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## fairviewroad (Sep 21, 2012)

Well, here's a dose of reality on this, from the Oregonian's transportation writer:



> The 3.3-mile eastside line will get off to a hobbled start. City and TriMet budget cuts mean the service will be less frequent than originally promised. Clackamas-based United Streetcar remains months behind in delivering new trolleys. Meanwhile, after years of growth, ridership on the existing four-mile westside streetcar line is sliding.


http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2012/09/portland_streetcars_eastside_l.html


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## WhoozOn1st (Sep 25, 2012)

An update on the grand opening. I didn't know Portland has a beer for mayor: Sam Adams.

East side streetcar service begins

"Streetcar service on Portland's east side officially began just after 11 a.m. Saturday with the departure of the first American-made streetcar in 60 years from a station just behind the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry.

"The streetcar carried Mayor Sam Adams, other elected officials and transportation planners through the city's inner east side and over the Broadway Bridge, where it connected to the existing west side Portland Streetcar line."

Trains News Wire said, in part...

"The opening day was fraught with difficulties. Heavy ridership resulted in trains operating at 'crush load' levels, making boarding and de-boarding a lengthy process. One streetcar employee noted that there were 'about eighty people waiting at every platform.' Some trains were so heavily loaded that when accommodation for disabled passengers was required, the extending 'bridge plate' at the doors was too low and could not clear the top of the platforms. At least one train had to be completely emptied to allow the plate to extend properly and load a wheel chair, and then re-load the remainder of the passengers. More delays resulted from automobiles parked hanging out over the tracks. As a result, trains were unable to meet schedules for most of the day.

______________

Sounds rough, and like the whole city turned out for free rides.







A new streetcar made by United Streetcar of Clackamas will be part of the new eastside Portland streetcar line that opened Saturday morning. Photo by Christopher Onstott.
​




Portland is rolling out the red carpet for new, walkable development along its streetcar extension. Note sign on building that takes its cue from the one on Portland's Union Station! Cool Town Studios photo.
​


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## SP&S (Sep 25, 2012)

fairviewroad said:


> Well, here's a dose of reality on this, from the Oregonian's transportation writer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Consider the source. The Oregonian of late has take a decided turn to the far right. Almost every day they lead with a government / public employees / transit is bad and ruining the city article. Circulation is dropping and I give them about a year to live.

What fools we were to rip up the old Portland Traction Co lines. hboy:


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## fairviewroad (Sep 25, 2012)

WhoozOn1st said:


> Sounds rough, and like the whole city turned out for free rides.


Which is kind of funny, since the regular fare is a measly buck (or essentially free if you connect from TriMet to the Streetcar). So a family

of four saved themselves a whopping $4 by putting up with the jam-packed crowds.



SP&S said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > Well, here's a dose of reality on this, from the Oregonian's transportation writer:
> ...


OK, but I'd also like to hear you refute a single one of the points that article raised, instead of just attacking the source. Do you disagree that ridership on the westside line is sliding? That seems

like a pretty indisputable fact. Do you disagree that the local company is months behind on the streetcar deliveries? Do you disagree that headways on the new line will be less than originally

planned? (18 minutes is a pretty long time to wait for what is essentially a downtown circulator...gonna be faster to walk or take a bus in many cases.) Don't get me wrong, I love streetcars, but let's not just paint

a rosy picture and gloss over the imperfections.


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm wondering what qualifies as "sliding". A 5% drop that seems to be continuing would likely qualify. A 1-2% dip that seems to be a fluke wouldn't. Also, I'm wondering what the ridership levels have reached...it's possible that ridership has just reached something of a "steady state" level where you can't push it up further without expanding the system.


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## fairviewroad (Sep 25, 2012)

Anderson said:


> I'm wondering what qualifies as "sliding". A 5% drop that seems to be continuing would likely qualify. A 1-2% dip that seems to be a fluke wouldn't. Also, I'm wondering what the ridership levels have reached...it's possible that ridership has just reached something of a "steady state" level where you can't push it up further without expanding the system.


Here's a chart that shows the ridership figures:

http://www.portlands...hs_20120630.pdf

After 7 yeas of constantly increasing, ridership has trailed off since '09. Yes, you could blame the recession

for that, as fewer people (in theory) were commuting to work. These figures have to be looked at in the

context of the overall economy and usage of other transportation options. But it's still a fact. While ridership

rebounded slightly in FY'11, overall it's down more than 8% since the peak.

With the recent expansion, you might expect ridership to increase this year. That's possible, but keep

in mind that as of this month, there is no longer a "Free Zone" on the Streetcar. You have to think that

many of those 3.7 million riders last year were riding for free, since the Free Zone comprised a significant

portion of the Streetcar route. Now that every rider has to pay, it's hard to see the numbers turning around

anytime soon.


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks a bunch for the link.

My initial analysis is that ridership has been more or less flat for the last three years...but that seems to be a case of the system being at a "mature" level of ridership around 10,000-15,000 per weekday for the area covered by the system. I suspect that the next year or two will see a modest bump in ridership...it would be larger but for eliminating the free fare zone. In general, I do support eliminating that zone...but I qualify that with a feeling that they need to add an "all day streetcar" pass of some sort (maybe for $2) to compensate for the loss of the attached free zone, or perhaps even a "downtown only" ticket of some kind. Also, I'd extend some "blame" to a historical accident (FY09 contained much of summer '08, which had the gas-price-from-hell episode we all remember; the peak was in July). _This_ is actually a case in point of why rapid ridership growth in a given year makes me nervous...I believe it is fair to say that you had something of an artificial peak in FY09 and that the FY10/11 level is what a "steady state" operation would involve.

Still, unless you have population growth in an area, the simple truth is that endless growth on a static operation under more-or-less static conditions just isn't going to happen. Sooner or later, you hit a point where ridership is "tapped out" for a given system. Weekday ridership of 15,000 would make sense as a limit for what is, admittedly, a comparatively limited system (let's face it, these ain't the Red Cars).

The other hangup here, to be fair, is that the MAX light rail in the area is also hauling a _huge_ amount of traffic (MAX+Streetcar has been around 150,000/day from what I can tell). Between the two systems (both of which seem to have lots of street running), downtown is pretty well covered. I'm actually somewhat at a loss why the streetcar is being treated as separate from the other system; where streetcar coverage isn't _great_ on its own, downtown overall has impressive coverage (I don't think any part of downtown is more than about four blocks from a line); the only thing that _might_ beg some improvement would be efforts to improve interline transfers within the system.


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## AlanB (Sep 25, 2012)

fairviewroad said:


> You have to think thatmany of those 3.7 million riders last year were riding for free, since the Free Zone comprised a significant
> 
> portion of the Streetcar route. Now that every rider has to pay, it's hard to see the numbers turning around
> 
> anytime soon.


Nope, I have to disagree with this assessment. Sorry!

With the Fareless Square now gone, it will cost $1 to ride the Streetcar and $2.50 to take a single ride on a light rail train. That I suspect will drive more single rides to the Streetcar when one has a choice of both.


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## AlanB (Sep 25, 2012)

Anderson said:


> Also, I'd extend some "blame" to a historical accident (FY09 contained much of summer '08, which had the gas-price-from-hell episode we all remember; the peak was in July). _This_ is actually a case in point of why rapid ridership growth in a given year makes me nervous...I believe it is fair to say that you had something of an artificial peak in FY09 and that the FY10/11 level is what a "steady state" operation would involve.


Agreed, many transit systems saw a decrease in ridership the following year, due to the artificial high peak created by the $4+ price per gallon of gas coupled with the recession that hit the following year. So frankly any decrease in ridership is due to abnormal circumstances, and not a lack of interest in actually riding.



Anderson said:


> Between the two systems (both of which seem to have lots of street running), downtown is pretty well covered.


Agreed, and I've covered all the lines downtown.



Anderson said:


> I'm actually somewhat at a loss why the streetcar is being treated as separate from the other system; where streetcar coverage isn't _great_ on its own, downtown overall has impressive coverage (I don't think any part of downtown is more than about four blocks from a line); the only thing that _might_ beg some improvement would be efforts to improve interline transfers within the system.


I think that they have very nice connections. The Streetcar crosses both the north/south LRT lines, as well as the east/west lines. Worst case scenario one must walk 1 block between the systems for any transfer.


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## Anderson (Sep 26, 2012)

Alan: I was only citing the political problem. Somehow, if ridership isn't skyrocketing, we're dealing with a failure...it's what I've actually sort of liked about the headaches Amtrak has had in different years: It "preloads" a boost for the topline numbers in the next year. For example, Irene last year, though it (narrowly) broke a long-running trend for a month, gave FY12 a couple hundred thousand riders' worth of buffer.

On connectivity...I wish there was a better map of both sets of stops so I could mark them off a bit better, but I'll assume that you're right here (since you probably are).

Another point to be had is that, as far as I can tell, ridership between the MAX and the Streetcar was up last year. The streetcar is a bit low

In general, I wish they'd consolidate the fares for both in downtown (and, frankly, consolidate the systems under one banner, with the streetcar just being a pair of lines). This may well just be me, but I see them as largely interchangable within downtown...but when they're all blanketing downtown in different ways, why have different fares and separate categorization?

To be fair, I'd like to see some sort of fare zone system adopted...the system is frankly too large for an all-inclusive single fare to be fair, IMHO...but this is something that is a much more broad-based problem as systems expand. For example, $2.50 is a good deal for a jaunt into downtown (especially versus driving costs), is a bit steep within downtown, and is absurdly cheap for a run all the way across town. The same issue would affect The Tide IMHO...$1.50 for a one-way ticket is fine for a short 6-10 mile trip, but it seems too cheap for something like a ride from (say) Oceana to Norfolk Naval Station. On the other hand, for an example, $3 might be a bit steep for shorter rides but would be "more fair" for the longer ones.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 27, 2012)

What's the big difference between Portland Streetcar and MAX? I do know a bit about Portland and rode the old Streetcar, but the new ones are too similar to MAX, IMO.


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## AlanB (Sep 27, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> What's the big difference between Portland Streetcar and MAX? I do know a bit about Portland and rode the old Streetcar, but the new ones are too similar to MAX, IMO.


Portland Streetcars are shorter and lighter weight, than the MAX railcars. The Streetcars can run on MAX tracks if needed, but MAX LRT cars cannot operate on the Streetcars tracks.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 6, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > What's the big difference between Portland Streetcar and MAX? I do know a bit about Portland and rode the old Streetcar, but the new ones are too similar to MAX, IMO.
> ...


OK, nice to know. Any other differences? Safety? Price? Speed?


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## fairviewroad (Oct 9, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Swadian Hardcore said:
> ...


Can't comment on safety. Both seem to have a fairly decent safety record, but I don't have specific numbers.

Price: MAX tickets are $2.50 for a ride. Streetcar is $1 a ride. Obviously you can go a lot more places on the MAX than the Streetcar. Additionally, a MAX fare is valid

on the Streetcar so if you connect from the MAX it's essentially a free transfer. The Streetcar is, I believe, funded through the city of Portland while the MAX is operated

by Tri-Met, an independent public agency. However, there is a lot of cooperation between the two.

Speed: Not really a fair comparison since the Streetcar operates almost exclusively on, well, the street. Whereas the MAX has its own right-of-way for most of its

route, except in the downtown areas. The downtown is about as close as you can get to an apples-to-apples comparison, and sadly, the answer is that both

the STreetcar and the MAX go slooooow through the downtown. Outside of downtown, the MAX hits some respectable speeds (50+??) but is still hampered by

relatively frequent station stops. The Streetcar meanwhile never seems to exceed 20 mph. Don't know how fast a Streetcar could get if it was let loose to roam the MAX

system.


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## AlanB (Oct 9, 2012)

Max can do 55 MPH, the Streetcars a max of 40 MPH.

This bit from Wiki describes some of the differences between the two and also makes mention of the fact that the original intent was to send the Streetcars to Max repair facilities, but they stopped doing that because of speed and signaling issues.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 10, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Max can do 55 MPH, the Streetcars a max of 40 MPH.
> 
> This bit from Wiki describes some of the differences between the two and also makes mention of the fact that the original intent was to send the Streetcars to Max repair facilities, but they stopped doing that because of speed and signaling issues.


OK, but $1 is a great low price for a quick single hop.


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## AlanB (Oct 10, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > Max can do 55 MPH, the Streetcars a max of 40 MPH.
> ...


I don't think that anyone is arguing that's not a nice price for a ride. But you asked what the differences were and I answered that question in my post, so I'm confused. :unsure:


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 10, 2012)

AlanB said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
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> 
> > AlanB said:
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Oh, oh, it's fine. It was just a comment.


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## DET63 (Oct 16, 2012)

SP&S said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > Well, here's a dose of reality on this, from the Oregonian's transportation writer:
> ...


_The Oregonian_ started going down the toilet years ago when it came out that it had downplayed liberal Mayor (later Governor) Neil Goldschmidt's peccadilloes. It's not losing circulation because of any "far-right" anti-transit bias.


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