# UPDATE: Eurotunnel gets court protection



## jamesontheroad (Aug 2, 2006)

From the BBC:



> Wednesday, 2 August 2006, 13:18 GMT 14:18 UK
> *Eurotunnel gets court protection*
> 
> A French court has granted Eurotunnel's request for bankruptcy protection, giving the firm a six-month breathing space from debt repayments.
> ...


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 19, 2006)

Under the "It's an ill wind" theory, I suppose the chunnel is a financial beneficiary of the current airline security problems, and I gather from another thread that there has indeed been a jump in chunnel rail bookings. Not having been over there (well, not since the early 70's, when there was no chunnel), how does the cost and the transit time compare for London-Paris between chunnel train and air?


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## jamesontheroad (Aug 21, 2006)

AmtrakWPK said:


> Not having been over there (well, not since the early 70's, when there was no chunnel), how does the cost and the transit time compare for London-Paris between chunnel train and air?


bmi, Easyjet, British Airways and Air France offer services from London City, Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton or Stansted to Paris Orly or Paris Charles-de-Gaulle. Flights are in the air for about one hour and ten minutes, but LHR is an arse for taxiing, and you need to remember check-in, transfer etc.

London Waterloo - Paris Gare du Nord takes 2 hours 35 minutes;

London Waterloo - Brussels is 2 hours 20 minutes.

Both will lose another 20 minutes by the end of this year when the London terminus moves (paradoxically, futher away but at the end of a much faster line) to north London and to the newly refurbished St. Pancras station, which is next to the British Library and King's Cross: connections to high speed Midland Mainline, GNER and Thameslink suburban trains will be much smoother. No word on whether the shorter 'Regional Eurostar' trains will ever enter into the service for which they were designed, which was to provide direction European connections from cities like Manchester and Glasgow. I suspect that the cost required to build customs clearance platforms at these stations will make it unlikely.

To quote Wikipedia:



> *Eurostar has established a dominant share of the market on the routes it serves — 68% for London-Paris and 63% for London-Brussels, as of November 2004.*


*j*


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 21, 2006)

So if the pre-flight check-in time requirement there is like it is here, and if the pre-train check-in time is very much shorter, like it is here, the train over there is a faster way to travel London-Paris or London-Brussels. Wish we could do that (high-speed) here on more than just the NEC. We almost had it Orlando-Tampa-Miami but then the politicians chickened out and got it reversed. We were really enthused when they passed it, and really bummed out when they cancelled it. Now if they ever do it the cost will have ballooned that much higher.


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## George Harris (Aug 30, 2006)

Eurotunnel is the victim of a combination of 1. overoptimistic ridership projections. 2, overoptimistic const and construciton time estimates which were worsened greatly by 3. incredibly pessimistic and costly safety design requirements.

Sometimes a simple sanity check just needs to be run. One intercity system plan in a location to remain nameless to protect the guilty had ridership estimates that presumed that 1/10 of the city population of the largest city on the line would be taking a trip on their system every day. . . . Not realistic.

George


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## Brian UK (Nov 26, 2006)

Brian said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Eurotunnel is the victim of a combination of 1. overoptimistic ridership projections. 2, overoptimistic const and construciton time estimates which were worsened greatly by 3. incredibly pessimistic and costly safety design requirements.
> ...


doh, must remember to type reply before sending!

Remember not to confuse Eurotunnel with Eurostar which are totally seperate organisations. Eurotunnel is the company responsible for the infrastructure and it is the construction/operating debt and interest payments that are crippling them. Eurostar is the passenger train operator which, despite lower than predicted ridership, is doing extremely well and is not affected by the bankruptcy issue apart from having no tunnel to run through if the former goes bust! Believe me this scenario will never happen as it would be political suicide for this or the French government.


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## Trogdor (Nov 26, 2006)

Brian UK said:


> apart from having no tunnel to run through if the former goes bust!


I strongly disagree with that assessment. The tunnel isn't exactly something that can be sold for scrap. The tunnel is there, even if the owner of said tunnel goes bankrupt and is liquidated. Ultimately, the creditors would assume control of the tunnel. They could operate it themselves, or sell it to someone new, or contract out its operation or maintenance. However, if the Eurotunnel company went belly-up tomorrow, it's likely that the only immediate change Eurostar would notice would be to whom they write the check (cheque) for access payments.


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## Dinker (Nov 26, 2006)

rmadisonwi said:


> Brian UK said:
> 
> 
> > apart from having no tunnel to run through if the former goes bust!





> I strongly disagree with that assessment. The tunnel isn't exactly something that can be sold for scrap. The tunnel is there, even if the owner of said tunnel goes bankrupt and is liquidated.


I think that's what Brian meant when he wrote: "Believe me this scenario will never happen as it would be political suicide for this or the French government" - those two governments will be sure that the creditors of the tunnel will keep it in operation for passengers at not much higher than the current prices (which by the way, are a lot more than airfare on EasyJet or bmi).

(edited to add quote marks - AmtrakWPK)


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## Brian UK (Nov 26, 2006)

Dinker said:


> rmadisonwi said:
> 
> 
> > Brian UK said:
> ...


Thanks, that is what I meant, didnt word it clearly. I believe it was written into law at the time by the evil Thatcher government that no government would ever be allowed to bail out Eurotunnel regardless of events. However, closing the tunnel is not an option especially as the second section of the high speed line to Central London opens next November at a cost of billions and the French are simply too proud and stubborn to give up! Some air fares ARE cheap, but they are budget airlines and service is basic. City centre to city center is no contest - If you are starting from within the greater London ring then Eurostar will get always be quicker than a trip outwards to one of the airports hence the huge market share. Off thread, dont forget the UK is so small that there isnt the same ethos about flying short distances here. That is why, despite having the highest fares in Europe, the InterCity passenger train still rules as every major city (including Paris and Brussels), but except those in Scotland, is no more than 260 miles from London.


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## Sam Damon (Nov 27, 2006)

Brian UK said:


> That is why, despite having the highest fares in Europe, the InterCity passenger train still rules as every major city (including Paris and Brussels), but except those in Scotland, is no more than 260 miles from London.


To put that into perspective, that's about half the railroad distance from New York City to Pittsburgh. Anyway, back to Eurotunnel...


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