# Rude Employees



## Everydaymatters (Aug 21, 2011)

I just can't understand why Amtrak continues to put up with rude personnel.

Last night my neighbor was over and told me about a bad experience she had. This was on top of having heard another comment from another acquaintence.

Anyone who has traveled in coach has experienced it or witnessed it at one time or another and we keep telling people to "get their name and complain to Amtrak".

The complaint of sleeper passengers is usually about the absentee attendants and that's not what I'm talking about. Passengers riding coach, especially long distance, have a completely different experience. You wouldn't know you were on the same train as those in sleepers.

I know..there are some truly terrific employees. However, those bad employees leave a much stronger impression and they have the power to make or break what should be a pleasant experience.

Can't Amtrak get a handle on this?


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## Ryan (Aug 21, 2011)

Not if they don't know about the problem. Until management gets out of their office and onto the trains, I wouldn't look for much improvement.

The only thing that we can do is to continue to report the bad apples - each complaints adds to the paper trail and helps get rid of the dead weight.


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## TimePeace (Aug 21, 2011)

Plus, it is an increasingly rude world. Everywhere you go - not just on Amtrak trains - people serving the public are more and more often rude. It comes down to this: people don't teach their kids manners as much as they used to. Television teaches rudeness. We live in a rude culture.

This does not excuse the inexcusable. It is merely reality (as I see it).


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## sttsxm (Aug 21, 2011)

I'v e sent mulit-page letters to Mr Boardman's office about rude AND wonderful employees...

I too have experienced lousy coach service...on several occasions...including the mysterious, disappearing Coach attendant.....

OTOH there have been a handful of outstanding OBS crew, some of whom have gone above and WAY beyond to assist me




....and i was REALLY sick too.....


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## Trogdor (Aug 21, 2011)

Maine Rider said:


> Plus, it is an increasingly rude world. Everywhere you go - not just on Amtrak trains - people serving the public are more and more often rude.


That works better.


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## librarian (Aug 21, 2011)

As an administrator at my place of work, I see two issues relating to "rude employees." First, it seems that younger staff are not developing human interaction skills, which leads to poor human communication skills. Many times, the problem is simply the "way" a staff person phrases things to customers, combined with "listening" skills. Is social networking doing this to society?

Secondly, the ultimate problem is how difficult it is for an employer to terminate rude staff. I had a staff member whose attitude deteriorated as years passed, and I worked with her several times to improve her work attitude, to no avail. Everything was documented, she was finally terminated, and now, 3 YEARS LATER, I am still paying Unemployment Compensation for her. Monthly, I receive the paperwork saying that she is "unable to find employment." Financially speaking, there is no reason to terminate such staff.


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## TimePeace (Aug 21, 2011)

Trogdor: agreed. It's everywhere.

Librarian: I don't think it is social networking, or at least not all. I have been noticing a deterioration of common decent behavior for longer than the networks have been up. I think of the media, TV has a lot more to do with it. And a culture of "us against them."


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 21, 2011)

I can only imagine Labor Unions have a lot to do with employees being able to get away with rude and unacceptable behavior. No sooner than an employee is disciplined by management, he or she will run right to their union representative and file a grievance resulting in the union complaining to management about abusive behavior.


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## bobnabq (Aug 21, 2011)

Maine Rider said:


> Plus, it is an increasingly rude world. Everywhere you go - not just on Amtrak trains - people serving the public are more and more often rude.


I've just recently encountered rude employees; one a postal carrier and one a woman who works for the company that ships me my diabetic testing equipment.

It's as if they have no 'social skills' and don't know how to relate to the public.

As a kid, if I acted like that, all my parents had to do was give me "_that look_" and I straightened out quickly.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 21, 2011)

A friend of mine who has a lot of pre-Amtrak and pre-Deregulation airline travel experience has told me several times if an employee displayed rude behavior he or she would quickly find out what termination is all about, often even before the trip was over.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 21, 2011)

With so many excellent people looking for work it's a shame that jerks with poor people skills have jobs in service industries! Unions have no choice but to represent any member brought up on disciplinary charges, but Management is to blame, they do not document, follow procedures etc! Basically as others have said ,they sit in their offices collecting the big bucks and are Shocked! Shocked! when a bad apple causes problems!

We can all do our part to help in this area by reporting such unacceptable behaviour by employees to management! If you get the brush off by say the Store Manager, write/call Customer Relations and cc the CEO in his palacial offices in Corporate Headquarters! (In Amtraks case thats Joe Boardman, 60 Mass, Washington, D.C.)

Im really surprised that someone who was dismissed for Cause is still drawing unemployment three years later??  Most states have procedures for challenging inelgible ex-employees, and I thought Congress had cut off UE extension after 2 years! If its California that might explain it, but most places they wouldnt have gotten a Dime if they were fired for cause! Shouldnt it be that way?? :help:


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## sttsxm (Aug 21, 2011)

bobnabq said:


> Maine Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Plus, it is an increasingly rude world. Everywhere you go - not just on Amtrak trains - people serving the public are more and more often rude.
> ...


you got that look too huh??


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## anonymous (Aug 21, 2011)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I can only imagine Labor Unions have a lot to do with employees being able to get away with rude and unacceptable behavior. No sooner than an employee is disciplined by management, he or she will run right to their union representative and file a grievance resulting in the union complaining to management about abusive behavior.


Labor unions have been around for over a century. Have rude employees been a problem for that long? I think not.


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## Eric308 (Aug 21, 2011)

Rude employees="No problem". I cringe anytime I hear that.


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## me_little_me (Aug 21, 2011)

After writing Amtrak twice about wonderful employees on our last trips, I once again contacted them - this time about the useless SCAs on our round-trip to NOL. I always tip anyway but n the future, those that do not provide service will get nothing even though I sympathize with the employees as they will never get rich on their salaries even with tips. However, I did miss an opportunity. On our outgoing trip, the SCA from the other car helped us board but was obviously miffed that our (useless) SCA wasn't there to help her customers. When I got off, I tipped her anyway but I should have given her half the tip and given him the other half as he was so nice, cheerful, and helpful.


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## George B (Aug 21, 2011)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I can only imagine Labor Unions have a lot to do with employees being able to get away with rude and unacceptable behavior. No sooner than an employee is disciplined by management, he or she will run right to their union representative and file a grievance resulting in the union complaining to management about abusive behavior.


I am not a big fan of unions, as they often serve the union bosses more than they serve the actual workers, but blanket statements blaming unions reflect very poorly upon the person making them. Unions do not mold the modern work force…society does.

A previous poster hit the nail right on the head……all an employees has to do these days is hire a lawyer and threaten legal action against an employer, and suddenly management gives in. It is very difficult to dismiss an employee without a long, well-documented history of poor performance. If they are in a protected class such as being a woman, minority, over 40, veteran, or disabled, then forget it. You will never get rid of them because it is too easy for them to win any lawsuit. That is due to people abusing the legal system. Then again, who isn’t abusing the legal system these days?

So, union-bashing, while fun, doesn’t serve you well in a fact-based discussion.


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## ColdRain&Snow (Aug 21, 2011)

One of my biggest concerns right now about the prevalence of rude Amtrak employees is their apparent failure to draw the connection between their behavior and its complicity to the endangerment of Amtrak's future. With every incident of rude and/or apathetic treatment of passengers, Amtrak's employees are playing directly into the stereotypes that miscreants like Congressman Mica are so vociferously trying to establish in the national perception about Amtrak (such as his recent "Soviet-style railroad" line of attacks).

It's frustrating to be such an ardent supporter of Amtrak yet board a train and observe an employee who appears to be content with delivering an unpleasant experience to his/her passengers. Though they may resent the implication, these employees are undermining Amtrak's future survivability every bit as much as Congressman Mica, Shuster, et al. They're actually doing part of their dirty work by reinforcing certain tenets of the congressmen's argument that dismantling Amtrak is good for America. I imagine this must profoundly frustrate all of the great employees working at Amtrak who are dedicated to elevating the railroad on a daily basis.


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## George B (Aug 21, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> I just can't understand why Amtrak continues to put up with rude personnel.
> 
> Last night my neighbor was over and told me about a bad experience she had. This was on top of having heard another comment from another acquaintence.
> 
> ...


This is all wonderful and interesting, but you never state what the specific complaints were from your neighbor…………………………..


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## guest (Aug 21, 2011)

Ryan said:


> Not if they don't know about the problem. Until management gets out of their office and onto the trains, I wouldn't look for much improvement.
> 
> The only thing that we can do is to continue to report the bad apples - each complaints adds to the paper trail and helps get rid of the dead weight.


How about getting rid of poor management?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 21, 2011)

One way to deal with this type of situation is to have uniformed Supervisors show up and ride unannounced from time to time and discuss and work with employees who exhibit poor behavior. And along with this, undercover "agents" can be used periodically to ride and report. They would book their tickets and ride and behave like any other passenger, having been trained on how to maintain cover and not do anything to reveal their identity while being able to accurately report on the conduct and performance of employees they interact with.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 21, 2011)

George B said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't understand why Amtrak continues to put up with rude personnel.
> ...


I had replied with what the situation was and then backspaced to delete it because it really doesn't matter what the "complaint" was. Rude employees are rude employees, whether it is to my neighbor or yours. Just read the discussions and the travelogues, there are plenty of examples. My neighbor's experience probably isn't the same as someone else's and it wouldn't serve any useful purpose for you (or anyone else) to pick apart her experience. The fact remains that rudeness exists now and has existed for too long.


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## George B (Aug 21, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> I had replied with what the situation was and then backspaced to delete it because it really doesn't matter what the "complaint" was. Rude employees are rude employees, whether it is to my neighbor or yours. Just read the discussions and the travelogues, there are plenty of examples. My neighbor's experience probably isn't the same as someone else's and it wouldn't serve any useful purpose for you (or anyone else) to pick apart her experience. The fact remains that rudeness exists now and has existed for too long.


Yes, but coming on here and just saying someone told you they had a bad experience is on par with the people who post topics like “Amtrak sucks” and never explain what the problem is.

It does, indeed, matter what the complaint was. Your second, third, and fourth sentence all refer to “bad experiences”, but never say what they are. I’m not asking for pages of explanation, but if you bring it up, you should at least describe it to some extent. Just a sentence or two. I can read travel reports from other people until the cows come home. It doesn’t explain your situation any more than someone else’s trip report explains my last trip.


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## going to the sun sue (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh..I'vd got one for you...we had a attendant in May when my husband and I went to Maricopa...when the train arrived and all of us left our rooms to disembark...our lady was no where to be found...one man went looking for her..and came back to no avail..our daughter was standing on the platform..wondering why we weren't getting off...WELL..a fellow passenger opened the door himself..I know this is a no no....when we were getting off..the conductor came running down the platform..wanting to know where she was...lucky we opened the door or else the train would have had to go back...at least I hope it would...When we returned home..we talked about it to our attendant..and he said he did hear about that incident..we didn't make a fuss...but I betcha the other couple did...I was just thankful that we got off :mellow: Most of our attendants have been good...don't remember many names..but 2 that stand out are Reggie and Michael


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 21, 2011)

Amtrak should be on that Tv show undercover boss.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 21, 2011)

George B said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> > I had replied with what the situation was and then backspaced to delete it because it really doesn't matter what the "complaint" was. Rude employees are rude employees, whether it is to my neighbor or yours. Just read the discussions and the travelogues, there are plenty of examples. My neighbor's experience probably isn't the same as someone else's and it wouldn't serve any useful purpose for you (or anyone else) to pick apart her experience. The fact remains that rudeness exists now and has existed for too long.
> ...


We get allot of amtrak sucks I will never take a train again blah blah but they don't say what the issue was and more often then not they post under a guest account and never return with a follow up to our questions. About the supervisers riding trains. That didn't work out. They would stay in there sleeper not venture out to see what issues there were and just have there meals delivered to there room. They were useless.


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## amamba (Aug 21, 2011)

I agree that it would be helpful for us to k ow of the specific complaint. You don't even have to use real names or dates or destinations if you want to keep some anonymity.


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## tonys96 (Aug 21, 2011)

While I understand this was frustrating, it really was not "rude" to me.

IMHO, "rude" means abrupt, condenscending, curt, unhelpful, hateful, etc. What happened to you folks was just downright inept and unbusinesslike.

I have had "rude" before from coach car attendants, once boarding in Dallas, we were directed to a car that was full with only 2 seperated seats, and a lot of cranky occupants who did not want to move for us, so, it being Dallas, we simply deboarded and told the attendant that we would just drive over to Love Field and fly to San Antonio, he rudely and curtly said "We sold you seats, not adjoining ones" and that was cool with us...we could fly for a pittance back then, no problemo. While walking down the tracks to get to the crossover to Union Station, an Amtrak employee (Conuctor, maybe?) asked us what was up, and when we told him, he said "That guy is an a$$hole" and took us to a completely empty coach car......of course, during the remaining stops this car got about half full before arriving at SAS...........That first guy was "rude", he could have eaasily moved us to the empty car, but chose not to do so, instead retorting "We sold you seats, not adjoining ones".

Again, once going to Little Rock from FTW, the coach attendant sent me to a car, and when I found a seat, the attendant for that car was really loud when saying "You can't be in this car, you must move NOW"......hey, I was sent there.......oh, well, I was moved and the rest of the trip was good.

Now, there have been great attendants on the Eagle, too..........once from FTW to SAS, the coach attendant lady was really great, my lady friend had never taken Amtrak, and the attendant took her for a tour of the train (Not sleeping cars, tho)...but it was above and beyond.....and once coming to DAL from LVW, on a really FULL train, the coach attendant asked me quite nicely and sincerely if I would mind riding in the SSL for the entire trip, and I was happy to oblige.......had he been "rude", well....it would have been different.

Politeness and sincerity count.....................


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 21, 2011)

George B said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> > I had replied with what the situation was and then backspaced to delete it because it really doesn't matter what the "complaint" was. Rude employees are rude employees, whether it is to my neighbor or yours. Just read the discussions and the travelogues, there are plenty of examples. My neighbor's experience probably isn't the same as someone else's and it wouldn't serve any useful purpose for you (or anyone else) to pick apart her experience. The fact remains that rudeness exists now and has existed for too long.
> ...


As said before, it really has nothing to do with her one complaint. It is a cumulation of many, many complaints. The problem does exist, whether it's my neighbor's complaint, my complaint, or any of the many other complaints. The neighbor's one complaint is not what I'm referring to.


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## The Cardinal (Aug 21, 2011)

I've been riding AMTRAK since 1994. From time to time I have run into some rude employees (quite a few of them at Chicago Union Station in fact). Usually conductors. But at least with the conductors, you don't have them the entire trip like you do the car attendants. The worst ever was a several years ago boarding the Capitol Limited in Union Station. I was ticketed for a lower level seat. I was directed to a certain coach car. The attendant outside the car asked where I was going and I stated "Pittsburg, lower level". To which he YELLED "WE DON"T HAVE LOWER LEVEL SEATING ON THIS TRAIN NOW GET ON BOARD!!". Of course everyone standing in the area turned to look at me. It was very embarassing and I wish I had gotten his name and reported his extremely rude behavior. That was without a doubt the worst I had ever been treated by an AMTRAK employee. And I refused to ride the Capitol for a few years after that. I would take the Cardinal to CIN and stay with family there for a bit and then drive up to PA.


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## Ispolkom (Aug 21, 2011)

The Cardinal said:


> I've been riding AMTRAK since 1994. From time to time I have run into some rude employees (quite a few of them at Chicago Union Station in fact). Usually conductors.


I've been riding Amtrak since 1981, and my experiences agree with yours, though more as regards conductors. I find on-board staff to get ruder the closer I approach New York City, but that may just be my luck.

Alas, as far as rude conductors go, I've read complaints about rude conductors back to the 1850s, so I think that there's no help there.


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## wmk (Aug 21, 2011)

However there are some great employees who love their jobs and really help the passengers.....Such as J.Roench (sp?) on Tx Eagle #21 on 7/30.She was the sightseer cafe attendant on break having dinner in the unused end of the cross country cafe where I was waiting for my dinner seating,when an elderly man wandered in lost and confused.She had served him earlier and he had been wandering the train since.She left her dinner and helped him find his seat while her dinner got cold.I complimented her when I got breakfast the next morning.Even with only a 6 hour nights rest she was pleasant and cheerful at 6:30 in the morning........THANK YOU for your great service :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## pennyk (Aug 21, 2011)

I have been riding Amtrak since 1972 (when I was in college) and I do not recall an employee being rude to me.


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## AlanB (Aug 22, 2011)

going to the sun sue said:


> ...lucky we opened the door or else the train would have had to go back...at least I hope it would


Unless the mistake was realized within a few hundred feet at most, the train will never go back. You would become a carry-by and Amtrak would have to make arrangements to get you back to the correct station.


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## AlanB (Aug 22, 2011)

Now, turning to one of the underlying themes currently running through this topic, let me once again repeat something that I have said many, many times before.

Amtrak Management Does Ride the Trains!

We currently have one now retired member who did that for a good portion of his career at Amtrak and we have one member who currently does it. Is there a manager on every train every day? No. But they are out riding the trains.

The problem isn't that management isn't riding the trains! The problem is that the employees know who the managers are. So when there is a manager around, the bad employees do their jobs. When there is no manager around, they don't. It's that simple.

So management has to rely, at least in part, on reports from the passengers. If you get bad service, report it! Take names and call Amtrak's Customer Service to be sure that it gets documented. The more times an employee gets reported, the more likely it is that they'll be sent for retraining, given greater scrutiny, and eventually terminated if they don't improve.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2011)

The Cardinal said:


> I've been riding AMTRAK since 1994. From time to time I have run into some rude employees (quite a few of them at Chicago Union Station in fact).


That seems to be a pretty common theme if you ask me. Chicago as a city is lots of fun, but as an Amtrak crew base it leaves much to be desired. Maybe the problem isn't that none of the management is riding the trains. Maybe the problem is that Chicago managers have no concept of quality customer service to begin with. Thus, no matter how often they ride they don't see the problem.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 22, 2011)

I have been riding Amtrak literally since Day 1, May 1, 1971. While I don't recall an employee who was overtly rude to me, and probably 80% of the onboard staff was good to excellent, I have run into poor service more times than I can count.

Off the top of my head, I recall an LSA in the PPC (it was a subbed Diner-Lounge, though) who basically wasn't around most of the time. He'd do wine tasting and then disappear. Since it was a Diner-Lounge, he'd hide downstairs a lot. There was a waiter on the CZ who basically never spoke. To anyone. A number of SCAs who disappeared, or who wanted to put the bed down at 7pm. To be fair, I've ridden with a lot more that were great. Any number of Sightseer Lounge LSAs who took 2 hour meal breaks and/or closed up at 9pm.

Customer service at Amtrak is always YMMV and probably Amtrak's weakest point that is within their control (timekeeping has historically been the other weak point, but outside the NEC, largely out of their control). My recollection is that things were somewhat more consistent when they had the Onboard Supervisor position.

So, while my overall experience has been good, I ride a lot and so I have a much larger sample size than most Amtrak long-distance travelers (present company excepted). I'll come back when I run into someone providing poor service, knowing that the next time things will almost certainly be better. To a first time Amtrak traveler, that bad encounter is a lot of their entire experience with Amtrak. And you only get one chance to make a first impression.


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## jdcnosse (Aug 22, 2011)

I know that part of it is parenting and part of it is just society being more and more lazy. I was born in the late 80s but my parents still made sure I had respect for others when it came down to it. And like someone else said, they don't want to have to deal with paper work or anything like that so they let it slide.


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## Henry Kisor (Aug 22, 2011)

This is only anecdotal, as are all the other messages in this thread, but on my last four LD trips (Chief, Capitol Ltd., City of New Orleans, Texas Eagle) the crews were almost uniformly first-rate, both in the sleepers and in the dining car. I do think things are getting better, thanks perhaps to a recent retraining push. Hope so anyway.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 22, 2011)

Coach riders are the ones who get the brunt of the rude behavior. A disappearing attendant in a sleeper is an inconvenience, but a coach attendant who is borderline hostile needs to be addressed.

My own personal worst time was on the SWC as a coach passenger on the lower level. We had just boarded in Chicago and, as an experienced rider, I was checking to make sure the seat reclined and the footrest worked before deciding to keep the seat. My overnight case was on the seat next to me. NOTE: at that time I was the only pax in the LL. The TA came in and started yelling at me: "You can't have two seats. Move your things. I want other people to sit here. I can throw you off the train." I calmly replied that I was the only one here and I just wanted to make sure everything was working. She again yelled at me: "I want someone else to sit next to you and you can't have two seats." I said ok, give me a minute. Then another lady came into the LL and the TA said to me: "I want her to sit next to you." I said "look around, there are only two of us here". She again said "I want her to sit next to you." The other lady scurried around her and took a seat in the back. After that the LL was never full and IIRC everyone had a seat to themselves or with their travel companions.

After that she rarely appeared in the LL but we could hear her yelling at another pax in the hallway saying she was going to throw her off the train.

Also, another time she came running off the stairs and said a pax had pushed her.

She was one mean lady. The worst I've ever seen.

That was in coach on a LD train. I've never had an experience like that in a sleeper.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Aug 22, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> I just can't understand why Amtrak continues to put up with rude personnel.
> 
> Last night my neighbor was over and told me about a bad experience she had. This was on top of having heard another comment from another acquaintence.


The problem I have, is that way too many times, people label an employee (Amtrak or otherwise) as being "rude", if they attempt a power-play and loose. Such a label is inappropriate and undeserved.

For example, your coffee is merely warm, and not hot, and you demand a free upgrade from coach to a bedroom sleeper because of it. The Amtrak employee who doesn't give in, is labeled as being "rude" (plus I few other things too) by the story teller.

The conductor is in charge of the train. Accept it. If the conductor tells you where to sit in coach, or to move your seat, and you flatly refuse, the conductor isn't being "rude", he/she is merely doing their job.



pennyk said:


> I have been riding Amtrak since 1972 (when I was in college) and I do not recall an employee being rude to me.


I don't recall one being rude to me either.


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## Ryan (Aug 22, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Now, turning to one of the underlying themes currently running through this topic, let me once again repeat something that I have said many, many times before.
> 
> Amtrak Management Does Ride the Trains!
> 
> ...


I guess I was too terse in my initial reply. I don't doubt that some managers do get out there and ride the trains. Maybe I'm just old school, but a manager is responsible for knowing their people and is responsible for the performance of those people at all times - whether the manager is present or not. Someone that only performs when the boss is around can't fly under the radar of a good manager indefinitely. Complaints to Amtrak (which I also mentioned as valuable) help, but unless there's a receptive manager on the other end that (1)actually receives those complaints and (2)is interested in using them to help get rid of the dead weight, all the complaining in the world isn't going to do a bit of good.



Cho Cho Charlie said:


> The problem I have, is that way too many times, people label an employee (Amtrak or otherwise) as being "rude", if they attempt a power-play and loose. Such a label is inappropriate and undeserved.
> 
> For example, your coffee is merely warm, and not hot, and you demand a free upgrade from coach to a bedroom sleeper because of it. The Amtrak employee who doesn't give in, is labeled as being "rude" (plus I few other things too) by the story teller.
> 
> The conductor is in charge of the train. Accept it. If the conductor tells you where to sit in coach, or to move your seat, and you flatly refuse, the conductor isn't being "rude", he/she is merely doing their job.


Well it's a good thing that none of the stories in this thread have anything to do with that. Are passengers perfect and right in every complaint? Absolutely not, and I've been the first one to defend Amtrak against foolish stories. But in general, blaming the passenger is not the answer. The fact that you haven't been treated rudely doesn't mean that those employees don't exist.


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## Shanghai (Aug 22, 2011)

I have 70,000 miles on Amtrak in the past ten years and have only had one bad SCA.

I consider that pretty good. I have had several outstanding SCA's as well.


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## PRR 60 (Aug 22, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't understand why Amtrak continues to put up with rude personnel.
> ...


I have had multiple instances of rude Amtrak employees, and those who know me here know that I never instigate anything. I am about as low maintenance a passenger as there is. Those who say it does not happen, or that if it does it is the passenger's fault, either have a very high tolerance for abuse or have their heads in the sand.

To be clear, it is not a union thing or a generational thing. Southwest Airlines is a union company, has a relatively young workforce, and I have never had an Amtrak-type experience on SWA. I have never been barked at or insulted on SWA. I have been on Amtrak.

The problem is the Amtrak work culture. Amtrak has had the problem since they inherited the passenger rail workforce from the railroads (which had the same problem for many years prior to Amtrak). It has been passed down from generation to generation and seems to be incurable.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

I have been riding Amtrak for about 10 years mostly on the Crescent and every single trip I run into at least one rude employee. Most of the time I can count on poor service in the dining car among other things. For some reason the dining car doesn't understand the concept of checking on people to see if they need anything without having to be flagged down.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> The problem I have, is that way too many times, people label an employee (Amtrak or otherwise) as being "rude", if they attempt a power-play and loose. Such a label is inappropriate and undeserved. For example, your coffee is merely warm, and not hot, and you demand a free upgrade from coach to a bedroom sleeper because of it. The Amtrak employee who doesn't give in, is labeled as being "rude" (plus I few other things too) by the story teller.


Can you link to a single solitary example of _anyone_ witnessing a coach passenger actually trying to turn a cup of warm coffee into bedroom upgrade? Because I've never seen or even heard of anything like that. Ever. If I didn't know better I'd say you're inadvertently showing us the exact sort of broad-brush prejudice you're pretending to decry.


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## jis (Aug 22, 2011)

Amtrak has had a general problem of getting control over the behavior of the employees that they inherited and then the later generation that were influenced by them apparently. It is not just some OBS staff, but look at the mess Sunnyside and Chicago are when it comes to maintenance. And no one seems ot have been able tog et a handle on that yet.


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## The Davy Crockett (Aug 22, 2011)

Without entering the fray about what costitutes rude behavior, my experience is that there is a great unevenness in customer service at Amtrak. There are some outstanding employees, some that should not be anywhere near a train, and a vast majority that are somewhere in the middle.

With that said, here are some various thoughts I have about this thread:

Often I find that I need to work at bringing out the better side of the on board service personnel, but once done, the vast majority treat me at least fairly well, and we enjoy each other's company. Ideally it probably should not be that way, but I do try to put myself in their shoes. As much as I love riding trains, I could not imagine doing their jobs for an extended period of time, or making a career out of it. Perhaps that is being apologetic, but it seems to me to be a tough job that grinds most people down after a while. I do complain to customer service about the worst of the lot.

Offhand, it occurs to me that there are two levels of disconnect at Amtrak that contribute to the 'Amtrak experience' not being all it could be, especially for first time riders:

1) How Amtrak advertises the rail experience and the reality. In talking to folks aboard, first timers are almost always confronted with this. Now how they deal with this, and what conclusions they draw, does say a lot about them. I've seen some who seemed 'hell bent' on it being a lousy experience and some who decide they are having a great time.

2) The Manual and the onboard experience. This has been discussed recently in another thread, but briefly I'll just say that it seems seldom do the two meet. For me, this makes me wonder about how management percieves itself and its employees. I hope Mr. Boardman 'gets' this and can improve things.

I agree with the idea that a lot of the personnel issues were inherited from the now freight railroads. The question is: After 40 years, what can be done to move beyond this and create an improving environment? I imagine Congress' continuing micromanagement of Amtrak, combined with the current climate in Washington, is leaving a lot of Amtrak employees - at all levels - wondering what the future holds. The last several years have sure seen a lot of seesawing, and these factors sure can't be helping employee morale.


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## jb64 (Aug 22, 2011)

Guest said:


> Most of the time I can count on poor service in the dining car among other things. For some reason the dining car doesn't understand the concept of checking on people to see if they need anything without having to be flagged down.



THIS. On my recent trip on four different trains, the dining car staff were far and away the least accomodating. Were they rude, perhaps not. But they were neither friendly, helpful, patient, nor attentive. Cap limited probably had the best dining car on my recent trip, but the LSA was given the nickname "diner ****" by other passengers. On the EB, the rolls they served us were stone cold as if fresh out of the freezer. We asked our server if they could please be heated and she laughed and and said sure when pigs fly. She wasn't rude because she laughed when she said it and that was her meme during the whole trip. She was jovial in a cutting kind of way but really didn't provide very good service. Needless to say, no one ate the rolls. The staff on the CZ was even worse in that they were not at all jovial. They were curt and to the point and very impatient. They also had the least efficient service of our entire trip.


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## amamba (Aug 22, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > Everydaymatters said:
> ...


I wouldn't put SWA at the top of the customer service pile after the Kevin Smith incident last year.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2011)

jb64 said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the time I can count on poor service in the dining car among other things. For some reason the dining car doesn't understand the concept of checking on people to see if they need anything without having to be flagged down.
> ...


I've had to work with Amtrak employees who shouted at us or who talked down to us or made derisive remarks at our expense and in those cases I _do_ consider it to be rude. However I do agree with you that in the case of many employees it appears to be more a matter of simple indifference than overt maliciousness. Nonetheless I do not enjoy having to jump through hoops in order to "bring out the best" in someone I'm already _paying_ to take care of me. That's the whole point of money changing hands in the first place. This isn't a favor they're doing for me, it's a job they're being paid to do. A good paying job in a very tough market. But they don't seem to have any fear of losing it. Somewhere along the line these employees apparently got the message that how they treat the customer is not likely to get them in serious trouble.



amamba said:


> I wouldn't put SWA at the top of the customer service pile after the Kevin Smith incident last year.


Well, then who *would* you put at the top of the "customer service pile?"

I've flown Southwest well over a hundred times and although I do sometimes get bad service it's never been on the level of what I've seen on Amtrak. I believe that's partly due to the fact that you're never spending more than a few hours with any one crew but I believe it's also due to rude employees having much more to fear when it comes to keeping their job at one of the most highly rated employers in the country. As for Kevin Smith it might surprise you to discover he's a comedian and that any confrontations he can conjure up may be nothing more than an attempt to cultivate more content and increase his relevance in the eyes of the press. While I do enjoy his humor I cannot defend his remarks against Southwest. Kevin Smith is a humongous gelatinous blob _by his own doing_. His personal space ends where mine begins. If that means he has to charter his own plane in order to keep his enormous blubbery folds to himself then that's his problem and not mine or anyone else's. Keep in mind that Southwest was the one and only US airline willing to participate in a reality show that was all about airline customer service. Maybe you never watched it, but I believe it showed some real guts _and pride_ on the part of Southwest. Of course I would never claim that decades of flying Southwest has never once resulted in a bad experience at the hands of a rude employee. That sort of blatant pandering requires a level of blind infatuation I've never had the misfortune of catching.


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## Dovecote (Aug 22, 2011)

Guest said:


> I have been riding Amtrak for about 10 years mostly on the Crescent and every single trip I run into at least one rude employee. Most of the time I can count on poor service in the dining car among other things. For some reason the dining car doesn't understand the concept of checking on people to see if they need anything without having to be flagged down.


I certainly agree with you on your evaluation of poor and rude service being the norm in the dining car. The exception to this is the staff working the Auto Train. The quality of the meals however have not been very good on our last two trips (we travel on the average of three round trips a year). Personally, I think the worst of the lot in the dining car, when it comes to customer service, are the folks on the Capitol Limited. In regard to the dining car staff on the Crescent, Tyree and his staff provided friendly and stellar service on our last trip in March. We are keeping our fingers crossed that we get him on our next trip in mid September.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 22, 2011)

What are some of the typical starting and few years down the road wages at Amtrak?


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## jis (Aug 22, 2011)

For most US Domestic airlines, on board service is mostly an oxymoron, since there is not really that much service of any sort to be had. it is sort of like asking, what kind of on board service did you have on a Northeast Regional. Well, uh... there was not much. 

Comparing what service one should have in a Dining Car with the meager service provided on board an aircraft on a US domestic flight is kind of apples and oranges to start with IMHO. OTOH, on international flights most US airlines service is borderline tolerable in Economy, and between good and excellent in Business or First. I would not term any as spectacular, the standard bearer being Singapore Airlines in that department.

Service in Amtrak Diner rarely rises to the basic Business Class international service on most US airlines, though I believe it is at par on many occasions with domestic First Class or slightly better.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2011)

jis said:


> For most US Domestic airlines, on board service is mostly an oxymoron, since there is not really that much service of any sort to be had. it is sort of like asking, what kind of on board service did you have on a Northeast Regional. Well, uh... there was not much.


Airlines of today are far below what airlines of yesterday offered, that is true. And yet on even the shortest _coach_ flight I still receive at-seat drink service. Refills and even alcoholic drinks if I want. On longer flights I can receive at-seat snacks and sandwiches if I should desire to purchase one. On much longer flights that are still much shorter than most Amtrak routes you will receive multiple at-seat meals included in the cost of the ticket. On Amtrak coach trips of _any_ length you can't expect at-seat _anything_. In fact I'm not even sure what the coach car attendants actually do besides ask you where you're going and remind you to get off if you forget.



jis said:


> Service in Amtrak Diner rarely rises to the basic Business Class international service on most US airlines, though I believe it is at par on many occasions with domestic First Class or slightly better.


If anyone in _international business class_ ever spoke to me with the dismissive "take it or leave it" attitude that Amtrak diner staff routinely display I'd demand a refund of the business class premium. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.


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## amamba (Aug 22, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> As for Kevin Smith it might surprise you to discover he's a comedian and that any confrontations he can conjure up may be nothing more than an attempt to cultivate more content and increase his relevance in the eyes of the press. While I do enjoy his humor I cannot defend his remarks against Southwest. Kevin Smith is a humongous gelatinous blob _by his own doing_. His personal space ends where mine begins. If that means he has to charter his own plane in order to keep his enormous blubbery folds to himself then that's his problem and not mine or anyone else's. Keep in mind that Southwest was the one and only US airline willing to participate in a reality show that was all about airline customer service. Maybe you never watched it, but I believe it showed some real guts _and pride_ on the part of Southwest. Of course I would never claim that decades of flying Southwest has never once resulted in a bad experience at the hands of a rude employee. That sort of blatant pandering requires a level of blind infatuation I've never had the misfortune of catching.


Considering that I saw first saw Clerks well over 15 years ago and can pretty much quote the entire movie on command - and the rest of his original "trilogy" -, I am quite familiar with his comedic antics. Clearly we are going to have to agree to disagree here, but at the end of the day, Kevin Smith was sitting in his seat with the arm rest down and with the seatbelt buckled without an extender. Since SWA publishes a firm policy on buying two seats for a "person of size", and since Kevin Smith clearly fell within the policy of having to only buy one seat, I would consider that poor customer service and rude behavior on their behalf. Just like how we get frustrated with amtrak when the customer experience deviates from the rules in the manual, that is my take on the Kevin Smith incident.

And I actually caught quite a few episodes of that show and thought sometimes the staff was pretty rude. But hey, we are all allowed our own opinions and perceptions. Personally I really don't like the SWA experience because I don't like the idea of not having assigned seats - I would LOVE for amtrak to have seat selection, for example - but clearly I am in the minority as the airline has been profitable while others have not.

Although I do have to say that some of my friends and I popped in the DVD of clerks II to watch again on Saturday night after returning home from the phillies/nats game, and it was so bad we had to turn it off after 20 minutes.

Edited to Add: I would put Jet Blue at the top of the customer service pile based on my own personal experiences. The staff has always been friendly, they have been great about putting me on an earlier flight when seats are available without charging a fee, and even when there are delays we have been treated like humans instead of cattle.


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## Tumbleweed (Aug 22, 2011)

Folks....a lot of your experiences depends so heavily on your own attitude.....if you try and greet each Amtrak employee with a smile and a philosophy of "there are no strangers, only friends i have not met", you will find it substantially improves your chances of a good experience.....no guarantees, but it is worth a try......


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## tonys96 (Aug 22, 2011)

I have never ridden in a sleeping car, unfortunately.but I plan to do so on my rail pass trip next year, upgrading a time or two to help with layovers and/or long segments. I have ridden quite a bit in coach, both on the Eagle and the Heartland Flyer.

As in any part of life, I have found both good and bad employees on Amtrak. Wrote about some above. Just a fact of life, people are people. I do agree 110% that if one is confronted with unacceptable customer service, it should be escalated to a higher level, and to that end, I am asking the forum....exactly what is that higher level??

Say, as a coach passenger who may be upset with an attendant, is there someone on the train at that time that is in a supervisory position? Can a coach passenger ask for a supervisor, or must they just sit and fester until the segment is done and call Amtrak? It would seem that there should be a "crew chief" or somesuch. Same question about sleeper car pax....

And as a corollary, when a passenger sees/recieves exceptional service, is there someone in a supervisory position on the train that could be made aware of that exemplary service?

I suppose I am asking, what is the on board chain of command?

Thanks!


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## Henry Kisor (Aug 22, 2011)

Tumbleweed is right. Cheeriness begets cheeriness.


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## Railroad Bill (Aug 22, 2011)

Just returned from our trip to Boston and Maine and must add to the conversations that our SCAs and dining car crews were excellent in both efficiency and manner.

We had Robert on the eastbound LSL and Walt on the westbound LSL and both were great. Personable, kept things in order, informative about things going on, both had to serve a meal in the lounge car for our Boston sections' sleeper and did it with a smile. (now Boston cab drivers, that is another story!! 

Debra on the LSL coaches was a riot and she and I even pulled off a little play for an obnoxious coach passenger who was getting on her nerves a lot. What a fun ride it was! :lol:

And the crews on the Downeaster were also very friendly. Even had a hospitality agent on the southbound Downeastern who passed out literature about Boston, maps and stickers for the kids. 

Yes, we have had a few losers on all of our trips, but I have found that if you start out being nice to them, most of the crew members will lighten up and we all have a good time. The ones that dont get reported to Amtrak!!


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## Dan O (Aug 22, 2011)

Not a lot of Amtrak experience to consider but one trip from LA to CHI and back. I found the staff on the train (coach both ways) to be friendly and helpful. No complaints at all. The service was exceptional on the way back to LA. I wrote to Amtrak to tell them about it. My only complaint was buying the ticket in LA. Was the person rude? Nope. She was a bit slow and gave off the feeling that she didn't care at all about her job or how quickly she did it. She may do a wonderful job (we did get the right tickets after all) but it seemed like we were a bit of a bother. Not a big complaint and overall, as in on the train, great service.

Dan


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 22, 2011)

amamba said:


> Clearly we are going to have to agree to disagree here, but at the end of the day, Kevin Smith was sitting in his seat with the arm rest down and with the seatbelt buckled without an extender. Since SWA publishes a firm policy on buying two seats for a "person of size", and since Kevin Smith clearly fell within the policy of having to only buy one seat, I would consider that poor customer service and rude behavior on their behalf.


At the end of the day all I have is Kevin Smith's claim of what happened, but let's presume he's telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt there is no way Kevin's enormous body wasn't spilling over into another seat. Kevin knows what a typical airplane seat looks like. He knows what a whale looks like. He knows a whale can't fit into a typical airline seat. And he knows how to turn a small issue into a much bigger one in a matter of seconds. He also knows he can afford to charter a private plane of sufficient volume from anywhere to anywhere. But erring on the side of practicality isn't going to give Kevin the new content and attention he needs to stay relevant. So Kevin apparently decided to simply keep forcing the issue until someone eventually slipped up so he could feign surprise and outrage when the official policy isn't able to predict his childish antics. It's great fun when Kevin's on stage talking about it, but when it comes to actually judging the customer service level of Southwest Airlines I wouldn't consider Kevin to be an objective source. I used to fly a lot and although Southwest is not always smiles and cheer they tend to do a pretty good job of making wrong things right and letting little things slide. That's not the sort of experience I had with America West, American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Republic, United, US Airways, and the like. Jet Blue doesn't fly to the seventh largest city in the nation so I can't comment on them. Maybe some day they'll fly here and I can give them a try.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 22, 2011)

Since I dont fly like I used to (million miler back in the day), can only say that my best experiences in the past few years, while limited, have come on Southwest, Jet Blue and Air Canada! (maybe those Canadians are on to something!) The absolute worst was US Air and Delta!

Of course the worst part of flying usually comes @ the airport now thanks to TSA, Airport Police and the Indifferent clerks manning the desks! In comparison with Amtrak, only the CHI Brown Shirts @ CUS come close to those Inquisition wanna-bes!! :help:


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm a member of the Teamsters Union and I drive for a large Union Package delivery company....and for 3 years the non-union employee of my competition nickname was "Mean Dean" cuz the non-union guy was the most grumpy, mad and rude delivery guy anybody on my delivery route had ever seen. He was very easy to sell our services against his cuz he was such a jerk. So, please throw out the union thing because I get compliments called in on me for the service and attitude I bring to my customers. "Mean Dean" is now somewhere else (he quit, he didn't get fired) making life miserable for whomever he's working for and he's probably not carrying a union card. :giggle:


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 22, 2011)

RailFanLNK said:


> I'm a member of the Teamsters Union and I drive for a large Union Package delivery company....and for 3 years the non-union employee of my competition nickname was "Mean Dean" cuz the non-union guy was the most grumpy, mad and rude delivery guy anybody on my delivery route had ever seen. He was very easy to sell our services against his cuz he was such a jerk. So, please throw out the union thing because I get compliments called in on me for the service and attitude I bring to my customers. "Mean Dean" is now somewhere else (he quit, he didn't get fired) making life miserable for whomever he's working for and he's probably not carrying a union card. :giggle:


Lets hope he's not working for Amtrak Al! :excl: :excl: :excl: When is the CZ going to be able to go through Omaha again?? The CZ OTP is looking like the old Sunset East!!


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## EB_OBS (Aug 23, 2011)

AlanB said:


> Now, turning to one of the underlying themes currently running through this topic, let me once again repeat something that I have said many, many times before.
> 
> Amtrak Management Does Ride the Trains!
> 
> ...


It's important that whenever you contact Amtrak to either compliment or complain about a specific employee that you are able to provide the following; your reservation #, date you boarded the train and the train #, the employee's name.

Simply saying the employee was the conductor or the train attendant won't suffice. I can attest to the fact that many many employee complaints refer to the employee as the conductor when in fact it was a train attendant. I can also attest to the fact that specific complaints about an employee can and do pile up and are addressed if there is a pattern of poor performance.

As to the Union issue, I'll say that I worked for 20 years in non-union jobs, 16 of those years in management. In most states you cannot just terminate someone based upon one or even two complaints. Not if you also don't want to pay their unemployment. You have to have cause and usually well documented performance failures and a documented effort to retrain and/or coach to improvement before you can terminate an employee. If you don't, you'll be paying their unemployment for at least six months.

In a Union shop, yes your union representative defends you but if Amtrak has done their due diligence to coach and retrain and performance failures still exist then that union rep is gonna have a hard time keeping that employee employed. It's important to know though, that even non-union workers can get representation in employment / unemployment disputes. Every time I went before the magistrate, the employee had an appointed attorney to represent them. Every time. Also BTW, in the 11 cases over six years that I represented my company in unemployment claims I never lost one.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 23, 2011)

EB_OBS said:


> It's important that whenever you contact Amtrak to either compliment or complain about a specific employee that you are able to provide the following; your reservation #, date you boarded the train and the train #, the employee's name.


In the past when reading negative consumer experiences about Amtrak employees, I have wondered if the pax could call and complain while they are still in the train in which it occurred???

Others in this thread have suggested that immediately being pleasant helps to soften the grumpy TA. The TA I referred to came up unexpectedly and started yelling and carrying on. There was no opportunity to be pleasant to her as others have suggested as a solution. She never stopped ranting and raving before, during and after the time I was trying to put my things on the overhead rack. I didn't have a chance to say anything other than "please give me a minute". She was a nightmare of a person.

So, back to my question, is there any reason not to call and complain while the pax is in the train?


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## had8ley (Aug 23, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> EB_OBS said:
> 
> 
> > It's important that whenever you contact Amtrak to either compliment or complain about a specific employee that you are able to provide the following; your reservation #, date you boarded the train and the train #, the employee's name.
> ...


Very good point Betty. The On Board Service Manager gets an e-mail copy of the complaint and they seldom, if ever, immeditely react. I did call the Supt. in NOL about the bad order CCC (sodium bomb sandwiches for dinner, greasy donuts for breakfast)on the way back from St. Louis AU Gathering and he had the Road Foreman board in Jackson, MS. He bad ordered the sleeper I was in so you might want to wait until you get where you're going !!! :lol:


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## rrdude (Aug 23, 2011)

Calling Amtrak's Customer Relations FROM the train, makes great sense. Make sure to tell them you are on Train #____,. and the offending employee's name is ______ and the offense was ___________________ (assuming they are open).

If you can, seeking out the conductor, or the LSA-Diner, and informing them calmly and politely is also suggested.

Now, if you are like me, and ENJOY a confrontation, CONFRONTING the abusive employee is also an option. (and very fun, if done correctly..... and publicly.........Except for the Conductor, NEVER confront a Conductor, unless you are ready to "walk)


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## amamba (Aug 23, 2011)

Texas Sunset, did you actually listen to any of Kevin Smith's podcasts about the SWA situation? I don't think they were funny and/or comedic AT ALL. They were sad and he was angry. I followed the story pretty closely, and while I agree that he could have been using the situation to draw attention to him right when a new movie of his was coming out, it didn't seem like he was infusing humor into his description of the situation. I wasn't laughing as I listened to his podcast, and as I listened to him interview other folks that had similar things happen to them.

He interviewed a couple of people that were brought to tears over the way they were treated by SWA. I agree that there are always going to be good apples and bad apples - and every company everywhere has some bad apples - but I'm still boycotting SWA as a result of their inconsiderate and uneven treatment of overweight folks. I fully agree that a person of size who is encroaching on another's space should buy two seats - but SWA has a track record of unevenly applying their policy and humiliating pax in the process.


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## had8ley (Aug 23, 2011)

rrdude said:


> Calling Amtrak's Customer Relations FROM the train, makes great sense. Make sure to tell them you are on Train #____,. and the offending employee's name is ______ and the offense was ___________________ (assuming they are open).
> 
> If you can, seeking out the conductor, or the LSA-Diner, and informing them calmly and politely is also suggested.
> 
> Now, if you are like me, and ENJOY a confrontation, CONFRONTING the abusive employee is also an option. (and very fun, if done correctly..... and publicly.........Except for the Conductor, NEVER confront a Conductor, unless you are ready to "walk)


Jerry~ if every on board manager acted on pax complaints cell phoned in I'm afraid a lot of OBS would be collecting RRB unemployment. There's two sides to every story and I'm sure the employee and the unions would be fuming if a TA was pulled out of service on the word of a pax. I'll be the first one to admit that some OBS act like "Your in my territory and you'll do as I say until you get off" but in fairness I think the "fire 'em" mentality needs to seek its own course. Enough complaints come to the OBS manager's computer and he/she is going to have to start answering some questions about the individual.


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## jdcnosse (Aug 23, 2011)

Tumbleweed said:


> Folks....a lot of your experiences depends so heavily on your own attitude.....if you try and greet each Amtrak employee with a smile and a philosophy of "there are no strangers, only friends i have not met", you will find it substantially improves your chances of a good experience.....no guarantees, but it is worth a try......


^^ This. I've even noticed myself, when I drive upset, or do anything upset...just little tiny things people do **** me off. but if I try and stay positive and calm, I don't really care.



AlanB said:


> The problem isn't that management isn't riding the trains! The problem is that the employees know who the managers are. So when there is a manager around, the bad employees do their jobs. When there is no manager around, they don't. It's that simple.


sounds like a perfect reason to be on that show undercover boss. haha



amamba said:


> Texas Sunset, did you actually listen to any of Kevin Smith's podcasts about the SWA situation? I don't think they were funny and/or comedic AT ALL. They were sad and he was angry. I followed the story pretty closely, and while I agree that he could have been using the situation to draw attention to him right when a new movie of his was coming out, it didn't seem like he was infusing humor into his description of the situation. I wasn't laughing as I listened to his podcast, and as I listened to him interview other folks that had similar things happen to them.
> 
> 
> 
> He interviewed a couple of people that were brought to tears over the way they were treated by SWA. I agree that there are always going to be good apples and bad apples - and every company everywhere has some bad apples - but I'm still boycotting SWA as a result of their inconsiderate and uneven treatment of overweight folks. I fully agree that a person of size who is encroaching on another's space should buy two seats - but SWA has a track record of unevenly applying their policy and humiliating pax in the process.


I just wanted to agree with you, in the fact that yes he does have loads of money, but that doesn't give him any less of a right to wanting to save that money by flying coach. Like was said many times before, he was within SWA's guidlines and they still kicked him off.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 23, 2011)

amamba said:


> Texas Sunset, did you actually listen to any of Kevin Smith's podcasts about the SWA situation? I don't think they were funny and/or comedic AT ALL. They were sad and he was angry. I followed the story pretty closely, and while I agree that he could have been using the situation to draw attention to him right when a new movie of his was coming out, it didn't seem like he was infusing humor into his description of the situation. I wasn't laughing as I listened to his podcast, and as I listened to him interview other folks that had similar things happen to them.


I didn't hear any of his podcasts. I heard him talking about his various incidents with Southwest _on stage_. It was pretty clear that his weight and the problems it gets him into is most certainly part of his schtick. It was also pretty clear that he has no need of Southwest for anything but press and material.



amamba said:


> He interviewed a couple of people that were brought to tears over the way they were treated by SWA. I agree that there are always going to be good apples and bad apples - and every company everywhere has some bad apples - but I'm still boycotting SWA as a result of their inconsiderate and uneven treatment of overweight folks. I fully agree that a person of size who is encroaching on another's space should buy two seats - but SWA has a track record of unevenly applying their policy and humiliating pax in the process.


I fully support political correctness when it deals with unalterable traits, but not when it comes to something that we can _and_ should control. You can only get Kevin Smith huge if you live a highly caloric and sedentary lifestyle. No organ or gene or enzyme or neurotransmitter can conjure calories out of thin air and I'm tired of being expected to pretend that's not true. I'm not trying to say you or anyone else should fly Southwest; that decision is yours alone to make and I honestly respect people who take a stand on who they will or will not do business with. I just wanted to point out that all we have to go on is Kevin Smith's side of the story and it's pretty clear he has an inherent conflict-of-interest when it comes to issues like this. That's all. ^_^


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## PRR 60 (Aug 23, 2011)

I prefer to make decisions based on my experiences and my family's experiences, not someone else's. A company that has treated me well, my wife well, and my kids well, is not going to lose my business because someone else had a problem (allegedly). Everyone has an agenda. The only agenda that matters to me is my agenda.


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## George B (Aug 23, 2011)

Texas Sunset said:


> I didn't hear any of his podcasts. I heard him talking about his various incidents with Southwest _on stage_. It was pretty clear that his weight and the problems it gets him into is most certainly part of his schtick. It was also pretty clear that he has no need of Southwest for anything but press and material.
> 
> I fully support political correctness when it deals with unalterable traits, but not when it comes to something that we can _and_ should control. You can only get Kevin Smith huge if you live a highly caloric and sedentary lifestyle. No organ or gene or enzyme or neurotransmitter can conjure calories out of thin air and I'm tired of being expected to pretend that's not true. I'm not trying to say you or anyone else should fly Southwest; that decision is yours alone to make and I honestly respect people who take a stand on who they will or will not do business with. I just wanted to point out that all we have to go on is Kevin Smith's side of the story and it's pretty clear he has an inherent conflict-of-interest when it comes to issues like this. That's all. ^_^


I think it is pretty humorous to see people come to a public forum like this to gripe about people complaining in a larger public forum. People have no problem going on and on about grievances here on this site (even when they have no facts to back them up) because they know they have an audience, and certainly would continue to do it if they had the power to go on stage or on TV and continue complaining.


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## JayPea (Aug 23, 2011)

I've generally received pretty good service over the years traveling Amtrak. I've had, especially in coach, attendants that were non-existant, but for the most part, even then, I've gotten good service from Amtrak employees that were happy to be of service. I've been wondering if perhaps I've given poor employees a pass, because I've certainly heard a lot of stories of bad to worse to totally rotten service, and I guess I've begun to pay more close attention to the service. And I still think for the most part I've had it pretty good. One time on the CZ the kid waiting tables in the diner about bit my head off, because I was new to the Amtrak experience and sat down at a table without him showing me a specific place to sit. I thought his reaction was a bit over the top on that one. And the absolute worsst I've had was this past June, while on a Spokane-Seattle trip. I was in coach, and went to get a diet Pepsi, as the last couple of tables in the diner also serve as a lounge. It took forever to get waited on, even though the woman knew full well I was waiting. She finally sauntered over, told me there was no bottled water and no Diet Pepsi. When I said I'd then settle for apple juice, she basically told me that if I didn't like it, go drink out of the tap. I didn't exactly care for that. I didn't exactly appreciate it, either, when it took forever for to get change from the LSA. (The LSA wasn't the one who reluctantly waited on me). And the waitperson acted as if it was a grand imposition for her to have to even ask the LSA to come up with change. The whole transaction must have taken nearly 10 minutes. And I REALLY didn't like it when a woman came in behind me, and in about 30 seconds, went back to her seat--WITH A DIET PEPSI they were supposedly out of. I was irate at this point, and I blew it by not saying anything then. I should have. I did contact Customer Service after this and did get a voucher. When I go to the gathering, I hope I get this person again. And if she's rude again, I won't keep my mouth shut the next time around.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 23, 2011)

George B said:


> I think it is pretty humorous to see people come to a public forum like this to gripe about people complaining in a larger public forum. People have no problem going on and on about grievances here on this site (even when they have no facts to back them up) because they know they have an audience, and certainly would continue to do it if they had the power to go on stage or on TV and continue complaining.


Um, I'm not griping about Kevin Smith's complaining. That's his right and it's certainly possible he was treated extremely poorly for no reason. I just don't think his story is the big black eye that other folks may see it as. If Amamba herself had a bad experience I'd take it a lot more seriously than a Kevin Smith podcast. But maybe that's just me. In any case I don't want Mr. Smith to be silenced or anything. If he's had a series of really nasty experiences with a specific carrier then by all means get the word out. Although I may not be his biggest fan I've watched his movies and specials from time to time and if I'm in the right frame of mind I can enjoy them as much as anyone.


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## Tumbleweed (Aug 23, 2011)

I really think that AMTRAK should periodically utilize "Mystery Shoppers" (if they don't already) and have them complete a report on each employee anonymously.....sneaky, I know, but very effective documentation. And I wish to be the first to volunteer if it involves free travel.....


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## Big Iron (Aug 23, 2011)

RailFanLNK said:


> I'm a member of the Teamsters Union and I drive for a large Union Package delivery company....and for 3 years the non-union employee of my competition nickname was "Mean Dean" cuz the non-union guy was the most grumpy, mad and rude delivery guy anybody on my delivery route had ever seen. He was very easy to sell our services against his cuz he was such a jerk. So, please throw out the union thing because I get compliments called in on me for the service and attitude I bring to my customers. "Mean Dean" is now somewhere else (he quit, he didn't get fired) making life miserable for whomever he's working for and he's probably not carrying a union card. :giggle:


The folks that drive those big brown vans are some of the nicest people I've ever met. It is evident to me that they enjoy what they do. Even in the very short customer interactions they make you feel like they appreciate your business.


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## Donctor (Aug 23, 2011)

My most recent LD trip introduced me to the best dining car crew I've ever encountered (including an LSA who should be given a crown), one of the best conductors I've ever encountered (she voluntarily helped a little bit in the diner when not otherwise occupied), and one of the best SCA's I've ever had. I also met the second-worst café attendant and worst coach attendant I've ever seen. Every experience is mixed.

Yes, the LSA might make a decent wage (she has a ranch-type property in Virginia), yes her servers may get to provide service in a real diner with real dishes again, yes the cooks may know and like the route. However, to work as a true team, to be attentive and friendly, to have food cooked _precisely_ to order, and to stagger seatings out of accordance with the typical SDS-style arrangement—this takes dedication and effort miles above what almost anybody else seems to be putting in.

Yes, the coach attendant may have been given an additional coach full of people CHI-PGH without advance warning, but that does not justify her hiding at the head of the train to avoid doing her job, nor does it justify her staunch refusal to let passengers move cars when the one occupied by said passengers seemed to lose A/C and started to smell like feces. Yes, the café attendant may have been exhausted by customer load, but that by no means justified his sleeping in a booth in the middle of a manageable shift, or his need to be texting while passengers were trying to pay.

Some employees are great. Some are s**t. Maybe that the employees who work first class _have an actual product to sell_ has something to do with it. Maybe it's because some have already dealt with bidding and now have regular assignments. Maybe it's because some employees have to deal with more stops (particularly for coach) than others (for sleeper). Maybe it's because *it's pretty difficult for employees to take their jobs seriously when they are given little reason to take their jobs seriously*. Maybe it's because certain crew bases are better than others (*cough* Chicago *cough*). Maybe it's because Thor or Joseph Smith or Almighty Rain God or Jesus or Zeus or Steve Jobs directed the fates in favor of a particular employee.

The only consistent factor seems to be the employee him- or herself. If the employee in question looks at each passenger as a "friend I have not met," it is likely that he or she will receive compliments or commendations.


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## eagle (Aug 23, 2011)

Being old enough to remember when Amtrak began, and having ridden both long-distance and corridor trains over the years, it is the inconsistency of Amtrak's service that is the most frustrating to me. You could have a great SCA but the diner crew is poor. The conductor could be helpful and friendly, but the LSA in the cafe car doesn't even crack a smile. Some stops are announced while others are not. This inconsistency, I believe, does relate to the situation Amtrak inherited from the private railroads in 1971. It would be interesting to go back and read Trains articles during Amtrak's first years to get a good idea of what Amtrak had to work with. ( The famous Trains editor David P. Morgan had some excellent travel articles during this time period. I wish I could remember when these were, but I do not. ) While management has tried to improve the consistency of customer service, they have not been totally successful.

Bottom line is, Amtrak has improved greatly in many areas over the years and overall customer service is better, but it is not where it could or should be. I believe that the happier Amtrak's customers are the more they will support the system when it comes under the almost annual attacks from its political enemies. Compared to Disney or some of the better cruise lines Amtrak does need to improve. It can be frustrating...writing specific letters to Amtrak management is the best way to deal with the situation. Whether it does any good I don't know, but it does provide some feedback to Amtrak management.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 24, 2011)

"or his need to be texting while passengers were trying to pay."

On board employees are allowed to text??? I read somewhere a while back that engineers were not allowed to use cell phones. Doesn't that policy extend to other on board crew as well?


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## Shanghai (Aug 24, 2011)

I think I read that after the California commuter rail accident in which the engineer was

on his cell phone, they have been banned by the engineers on most trains.

Betty, what are you doing being up at 4:42am??


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## jis (Aug 24, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I think I read that after the California commuter rail accident in which the engineer was
> 
> on his cell phone, they have been banned by the engineers on most trains.


That ban applies to operating staff of certain categories. I doubt that it applies to OBS staff.


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## amtrakwolverine (Aug 24, 2011)

So the LSA is allowed to be texting his or her boyfriend/girlfriend instead of helping a overwhelmed dining car staff?


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 24, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I think I read that after the California commuter rail accident in which the engineer was
> 
> on his cell phone, they have been banned by the engineers on most trains.
> 
> Betty, what are you doing being up at 4:42am??


Yeah, I know, it's early a.m. Having eye surgery today and it has me kind of hyper.


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## Shanghai (Aug 24, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > I think I read that after the California commuter rail accident in which the engineer was
> ...



Betty, I hope all goes well for your eye surgery. Do take it easy in your recovery.

Let us know how things went for you when you are able. Good Luck!!


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## jis (Aug 24, 2011)

amtrakwolverine said:


> So the LSA is allowed to be texting his or her boyfriend/girlfriend instead of helping a overwhelmed dining car staff?


As far as FRA is concerned that is fine. As far as Amtrak is concerned it should not be fine. But there is no safety issue involved so FRA is OK with it.


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## had8ley (Aug 24, 2011)

Everydaymatters said:


> Shanghai said:
> 
> 
> > I think I read that after the California commuter rail accident in which the engineer was
> ...


You ought to know Betty bugles her chickens and turkeys up before first light. Hope all went well my friend.


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## Sowhatnowwhat (May 10, 2012)

jimhudson said:


> With so many excellent people looking for work it's a shame that jerks with poor people skills have jobs in service industries! Unions have no choice but to represent any member brought up on disciplinary charges, but Management is to blame, they do not document, follow procedures etc! Basically as others have said ,they sit in their offices collecting the big bucks and are Shocked! Shocked! when a bad apple causes problems!
> 
> We can all do our part to help in this area by reporting such unacceptable behaviour by employees to management! If you get the brush off by say the Store Manager, write/call Customer Relations and cc the CEO in his palacial offices in Corporate Headquarters! (In Amtraks case thats Joe Boardman, 60 Mass, Washington, D.C.)
> 
> Im really surprised that someone who was dismissed for Cause is still drawing unemployment three years later??  Most states have procedures for challenging inelgible ex-employees, and I thought Congress had cut off UE extension after 2 years! If its California that might explain it, but most places they wouldnt have gotten a Dime if they were fired for cause! Shouldnt it be that way?? :help:


I know for a fact most Railroad Companies like: Amtrak, Long Island Railroad, New JerseyTransit, Metro North and I’m sure MTA - the higher ups such as:  Supervisors and Managers get away withmurder. I’ve seen and heard customersspeak to them any kind of way and the Supervisors and Managers talk right backto them in the same manner. You’re notsuppose to speak back to the customers the same way they speak to you, becausethe “Customer Is Always Right”, yeah right. When a customer wants to complainabout the Supervisor or Manager nothing gets done to them. They don’t get disciplineor put out of service, they are still there to this day. You know why, becausethey all stick together, unless you’re a supervisor or manager that’s notliked. I was told that people makecomplaints about them all the time and it get’s swept under the rug, like itnever happened. It’s so unfair how thehigher ups never get fired for their wrong doings on how rude they can be when theyspeak back to the customers. I couldmention some names, but I will not go there. It’s really messed up though...


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## amtrakwolverine (May 10, 2012)

jis said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > So the LSA is allowed to be texting his or her boyfriend/girlfriend instead of helping a overwhelmed dining car staff?
> ...


Ok or not I should not have to wait for a hour only to have my food served cold cause they were short handed and the cook had to serve the food also cause the LSA was too busy texting lubby dubby with his or her boyfriend girlfriend. Yet nothing gets done about it. There needs to be more supervisors on the trains then there are and someone needs to make sure the supervisors do there jobs and just hid a room all day never to be seen. This is why there are so many bad employees. They know they are not being watched and can get away with it.


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## kdeschner (Nov 25, 2021)

Hello All,
I could use some assistance. I have an issue I feel that lies beyond the normal customer service phone line. I am currently on the eastbound Cardinal (8/25). The crew is TERRIBLE. Worst crew in my extensive 100,000+ miles of train travel. The only good crew member is the view liner attendant. I didn’t get my full meal I ordered, and tried to resolve it. No luck. I was sitting in the lounge, and was kicked out as they were closed. This shouldn’t be the case as on the website it show the flex dining lounges open 24/7. The timetable shows flex dining. I don’t really care if this isn’t the case on “this train”. Quite frankly, they advertised it as such, and should deliver. I asked one of the attendants if there was any place we could finish up a card game out of their way, and was rudely asked if I didn’t hear well, and that I was told the lounge was closing soon. I asked about the flex dining lounge being open, and I was to give an example. I was then told the Lakeshore Limited was a double decker train, and therefore was different. Once I picked my jaw off the floor from a crew that goes in to NYP, and therefore should know the clearance restrictions saying this, I decided to reach out. This trip has been really rough. I purchased 2 rooms for my group, and the rooms are so worn that one of the doors doesn’t even lock. Also, as of when did they close the long distance lounge seating at night? I know when arriving/ departing terminus points they do, but this is new for me.
Thanks for any help!


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## flitcraft (Nov 25, 2021)

We can't help you--only Amtrak customer relations can. We aren't affiliated with or part of Amtrak. We are just folks who use and value trains, and thus not anyone who has the ability to rectify a bad customer service situation. I urge you to contact customer relations and make your bad experience known. Let us know what response you get.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Nov 25, 2021)

Regarding the lounge seating closing at night, that has been my experience every trip I have taken on the Cardinal specifically as far back as 2017. Due to limited seating, I have also been told that only customers making purchases can sit in the lounge on the LSL during my past few trips, as well as on the Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle since they lost their SSL. However, with the exception of early on in the pandemic, I have never had issues staying in the lounge overnight on the trains with SSLs, the Florida trains, or the Crescent.


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## pennyk (Nov 26, 2021)

kdeschner said:


> Hello All,
> I could use some assistance. I have an issue I feel that lies beyond the normal customer service phone line. I am currently on the eastbound Cardinal (8/25). The crew is TERRIBLE. Worst crew in my extensive 100,000+ miles of train travel. The only good crew member is the view liner attendant. I didn’t get my full meal I ordered, and tried to resolve it. No luck. I was sitting in the lounge, and was kicked out as they were closed. This shouldn’t be the case as on the website it show the flex dining lounges open 24/7. The timetable shows flex dining. I don’t really care if this isn’t the case on “this train”. Quite frankly, they advertised it as such, and should deliver. I asked one of the attendants if there was any place we could finish up a card game out of their way, and was rudely asked if I didn’t hear well, and that I was told the lounge was closing soon. I asked about the flex dining lounge being open, and I was to give an example. I was then told the Lakeshore Limited was a double decker train, and therefore was different. Once I picked my jaw off the floor from a crew that goes in to NYP, and therefore should know the clearance restrictions saying this, I decided to reach out. This trip has been really rough. I purchased 2 rooms for my group, and the rooms are so worn that one of the doors doesn’t even lock. Also, as of when did they close the long distance lounge seating at night? I know when arriving/ departing terminus points they do, but this is new for me.
> Thanks for any help!


I had very similar issues on the Cardinal in October. I routinely travel on the Silvers and was very surprised and disappointed to see such a big difference between the Silvers and the Cardinal.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 26, 2021)

A second class train with second class support breeds low morale which leads to even worse service. None of this is excusable.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Nov 26, 2021)

Steve4031 said:


> A second class train with second class support breeds low morale which leads to even worse service. None of this is excusable.



I am wondering what has gone wrong with the Cardinal.

I haven’t been on the Cardinal for several years, but before that I had taken it to ALX a few times (in a roomette, when the short-distance prices for roomettes were more reasonable) and also to/from the Portland Gathering (I forget the year) in a roomette.

On all those trips, the crew — SCA and dining car staff— was good to outstanding. Professional, friendly, and obviously loved their train and enjoyed working together.

The crew on the way back from Chicago had been on a delayed train (freight derailment, I think), had to get everything ready for the way back, and was our crew on barely any sleep. They helped each other out and were pleasant and efficient. Never complained to the passengers and did not shirk any of their work. 

One reason I used to choose the Cardinal over the NER for the shorter trips was the crew. It was a second-class train with second-class support then, too—but the crew was wonderful. What on earth happened? Did most of them retire? Or change to different trains?


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## Steve4031 (Nov 26, 2021)

I suspect the better ones gained seniority and then bid on more desirable jobs. I’ve had some good crews. Then some not do good ones. I’m sure with the COVID layoffs a Lot of good employees were released. I knew one personally and when it happened to her she had a pretty harsh, emotional post about forgetting Amtrak. They were lucky to get her back.


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## IndyLions (Nov 26, 2021)

The laziest OBS employee I’ve ever seen in my life works the Cardinal - which is my home train. He’s probably worked at least half of a dozen of my trips over the years, and I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen him standing.

There are some really good conductors / assistant conductors - but even with them they mostly treat the sleeper end of the Lounge car as a crew lounge.


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## Skylark (Nov 26, 2021)

Customer relations is kind of a nasty cycle nowadays. It's easy for both sides to come in expecting the worse and it just breeds hostility from there. Companies bending over backwards to "satisfy" customers who are clearly out of line has created monsters - akin to giving in and buying the toy a toddler having a tantrum was crying about.

That being said "tantrum" is the key word there - a customer politely requesting services they paid for is not a tantrum. Or asserting themselves if they didn't receive something/the wrong thing etc. Asking a question is no reason to be barked at, nor is accidentally sitting in the wrong seat/car and being willing to move to the correct one. 

Certainly, customer relations can feel a bit like walking though a minefield from both sides. 
I just try to be as cordial as possible - say "please" and "thank you," try to clearly explain my needs, etc. My Amtrak service has definitely been hit and miss for the 10 years or so I've traveling. Probably about 50/50 on any given trip. I've never gotten into an altercation with anyone, that's not my way, just certainly experienced lack of service despite approaching things politely. While I believe being polite to others is key, I still paid (a lot) for a service and I expect it. There are definitely attitude issues going on within Amtrak. Inattentiveness also. I'd definitely travel Amtrak more often if I had better than 50/50 odds.


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## uncleboots (Nov 27, 2021)

Tumbleweed said:


> I really think that AMTRAK should periodically utilize "Mystery Shoppers" (if they don't already) and have them complete a report on each employee anonymously.....sneaky, I know, but very effective documentation. And I wish to be the first to volunteer if it involves free travel.....


I was asked once by the Dining Car Stewart if I was an Amtrak Spy, I just laughed.


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## Everydaymatters (Nov 27, 2021)

On my September trip on the TE, I had great crews. I think I might have posted somewhere about hoping this was the "new" Amtrak. I recall that they were all younger and perhaps new at their jobs. Maybe they hadn't been taught the ropes by the older crabby ones yet.


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## me_little_me (Nov 27, 2021)

Gee! And they were so nice on my R/T to Chicago a few weeks ago!

Typical Amtrak. The Standards are there to be broken at the whim of the crew.

The web page is written by idiots that never take any LD trips.

Executives, who never take LD trains, don't care.

Once again the "Center of Excellence" strikes again.

If you have zeros at the top (in the numerator), you can divide by any number and you still get zero. Basic math - but too hard for Amtrak to understand.


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## pennyk (Nov 27, 2021)

uncleboots said:


> I was asked once by the Dining Car Stewart if I was an Amtrak Spy, I just laughed.


With regard to the notion of Amtrak "secret shoppers," when the Amtrak Customer Advisory Committee (ACAC) was in existence, its members were required to file trip reports after every trip on Amtrak. Committee members did not disclose their position to crews and staff. The train, crew, station, food, etc. were all evaluated. Committee members also nominated Amtrak employees for Customer Service Awards. I believe I nominated at least 8 employees for Customer Service Awards during the five years I was a member of the ACAC. We did not ride for "free" unless we were traveling to an ACAC meeting or function.


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## NYP2NFL01 (Nov 28, 2021)

kdeschner said:


> Hello All,
> I could use some assistance. I have an issue I feel that lies beyond the normal customer service phone line. I am currently on the eastbound Cardinal (8/25). The crew is TERRIBLE. Worst crew in my extensive 100,000+ miles of train travel. The only good crew member is the view liner attendant. I didn’t get my full meal I ordered, and tried to resolve it. No luck. I was sitting in the lounge, and was kicked out as they were closed. This shouldn’t be the case as on the website it show the flex dining lounges open 24/7. The timetable shows flex dining. I don’t really care if this isn’t the case on “this train”. Quite frankly, they advertised it as such, and should deliver. I asked one of the attendants if there was any place we could finish up a card game out of their way, and was rudely asked if I didn’t hear well, and that I was told the lounge was closing soon. I asked about the flex dining lounge being open, and I was to give an example. I was then told the Lakeshore Limited was a double decker train, and therefore was different. Once I picked my jaw off the floor from a crew that goes in to NYP, and therefore should know the clearance restrictions saying this, I decided to reach out. This trip has been really rough. I purchased 2 rooms for my group, and the rooms are so worn that one of the doors doesn’t even lock. Also, as of when did they close the long distance lounge seating at night? I know when arriving/ departing terminus points they do, but this is new for me.
> Thanks for any help!


The best thing you can do is to put your complaint in writing at Amtrak.com. They will respond and will more than likely apologize and offer some form of compensation. I complained in writing about the dirty bedroom I paid a premium for on a recent Silver Meteor trip. I was compensated with a $350 travel voucher. They also thanked me for bringing this to their attention. We feel your pain and completely sympathize with your feelings. But, you owe it to yourself and future riders to let Amtrak know of your dissatisfaction. As was already requested, please let us know how things work out for you.


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## UserNameRequired (Nov 28, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> ….
> 
> If you have zeros at the top (in the numerator), you can divide by any number and you still get zero. Basic math - but too hard for Amtrak to understand.


0/0 is not 0, so there is at least one case for Amtrak hope!


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## lordsigma (Nov 28, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Regarding the lounge seating closing at night, that has been my experience every trip I have taken on the Cardinal specifically as far back as 2017. Due to limited seating, I have also been told that only customers making purchases can sit in the lounge on the LSL during my past few trips, as well as on the Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle since they lost their SSL. However, with the exception of early on in the pandemic, I have never had issues staying in the lounge overnight on the trains with SSLs, the Florida trains, or the Crescent.



On the Lake Shore they pretty much let me hang out in the VL2 diner/sleeper lounge as long as I wanted on my most recent trip. And the attendent would periodically come by the table and ask if I wanted anything else. Of course that train has two food service cars.


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## basketmaker (Nov 28, 2021)

Well I feel most of us in this forum have a better understanding of what the OBS (including Conductors/Assistant Conductors) personnel are faced with on every trip. Such as delays for what seems like very minor reasons. Or that a mechanical/electrical/electronic gremlin is causing equipment (heating/ A/C, plumbing, etc) not to function as advertised. And that they are unable to do anything about it. But we are few and far between traveling with the millions yearly.

Most of my life was dealing with the public face-to-face in the airline industry. And most of it was back when people were more understanding, civil and courteous to one another. Nowadays customer service personnel are more regularly tasked to deal with a much different clientele. People these days are demanding (i.e. spoiled), wanting instant gratification and just plain rude! Believe me no matter how helpful a personality someone naturally has the constant barrage of being berated and badgered can take its toll on your demeanor.

Yes, you pay for something or a service you expect to get it. But there are times and unforeseen circumstances that it just doesn’t happen. The conduct of the customer service personnel (OBS or others) is something that does need to be taken into consideration. They should treat customers respectfully and courteously no matter how the day is going. But since most of us are human that isn’t always the case. But I personally tried to take into account attitude as to what they have been dealing with. And yes, I have contacted/written management about individuals that I feel were not quite up to snuff and done the same for someone that has gone over and above what is expected. It is two-way street. Proudly I can say all the letters in my “file” were complementary from customers and not complaints.

One thing my mother (an MIA airport bartender for 25+ years) taught me was tipping. Even when service was horrendous she would always leave a tip. And not a penny as insult! With the hopes that maybe they would be in a better frame of mind for the next customer. It wouldn’t be what she normally would tip but she would never stiff them.

In all of my Amtrak travels I have found 98% of the OBS to be doing their duties the way they should be. Some better than others and only one or two that really should’ve called off that trip!


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## me_little_me (Nov 28, 2021)

UserNameRequired said:


> 0/0 is not 0, so there is at least one case for Amtrak hope!


0/0 is "undefined" so I'm not sure if it really is better.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Nov 29, 2021)

basketmaker said:


> One thing my mother (an MIA airport bartender for 25+ years) taught me was tipping. Even when service was horrendous she would always leave a tip. And not a penny as insult! With the hopes that maybe they would be in a better frame of mind for the next customer. It wouldn’t be what she normally would tip but she would never stiff them.


I agree with this. I would never leave no tip especially these days with the staff shortages in many places and the resulting stress on the remaining employees.

In my experience it seems things have gotten somewhat better over the years. I can remember some bad experiences in the early days of Amtrak, holdovers from the Penn Central era, in particular one club car attendant who apparently decided low lifes such as my wife and I didn't belong in his club car and tried in a passive aggressive way to make our lives as miserable as possible.


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