# Cafe/Dining car hogs on the NE Corridor



## dlagrua (Mar 20, 2010)

I've had occasion to take the NE regional train twice in the last year. On both occasions the trip went well and arrived on time. However what really gets me are the rude passengers that take all of the cafe car tables for the entire trip. if you go there you see a crowd of discourteous and rude individuals sitting there, not even eating or drinking and clogging up all the seats for the entire trips. If you walk down to get a cup of coffee you can't even sit there as the seat hogs take them the entire trip. I know that this rude disregard for other passengers would not be allowed on overnight runs but on the corridor runs, no disipline or rule is exercised. Its about time that Amtrak rules that dining and cafe car users can only tie up the tables while eating or drinking. Granted if someone stays a few minutes beyond that so what, but everyone should be able to take advantage of the seating not just the greedy and rude hogs.


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## MrFSS (Mar 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I've had occasion to take the NE regional train twice in the last year. On both occasions the trip went well and arrived on time. However what really gets me are the rude passengers that take all of the cafe car tables for the entire trip. if you go there you see a crowd of discourteous and rude individuals sitting there, not even eating or drinking and clogging up all the seats for the entire trips. If you walk down to get a cup of coffee you can't even sit there as the seat hogs take them the entire trip. I know that this rude disregard for other passengers would not be allowed on overnight runs but on the corridor runs, no disipline or rule is exercised. Its about time that Amtrak rules that dining and cafe car users can only tie up the tables while eating or drinking. Granted if someone stays a few minutes beyond that so what, but everyone should be able to take advantage of the seating not just the greedy and rude hogs.


Have you told Amtrak what your thoughts are on this subject?


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## KurtisB (Mar 20, 2010)

I think that people should also be allowed to use laptops on those tables, as well. That is, as long as they aren't hogging them for too long or the car isn't full of others. The tray tables either in coach or sleeper simply don't do the job, for me at least.


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## battalion51 (Mar 20, 2010)

I definitely understand where you're coming from, it can be annoying if you're trying to enjoy a meal to be forced to go back to your seat and try to do it with the tray table, especially if you're sharing something like a pizza. But I am definitely guilty of being a table hog. Back in the day (which was a Wednesday for the record) when I would travel on Silver Service on day trips most of the time I wouldn't even tie up a coach seat, I'd just set up in the lounge. Now granted the Silver Service lounges don't tend to get packed like the Regional lounges do, but I'm still guilty nonetheless. However, if the lounge was extremely packed in (during a holiday period) I would typically relocate myself to make the space available to those who wanted it for its intended purpose.

From my perspective Amtrak walks a fine line between encouraging people to use the space to mingle with others on the train and enjoy the trip and allowing folks to use the space for the intended practical purpose. Unfortunately I think Amtrak is going to stay with the "first come first served" mentality in the lounges because on most of the Superliner trains where you have a Sightseer Lounge where loitering is almost encouraged. Therefore it's hard to develop one set of standards for one car, and another set for another car. So I would guess the status quo will probably be around for awhile with this particular topic.

Now the Dining Car is a completely different thing. The true Dining Cars on the long distance trains I have seen crews force people out when they are just lounging because they have another seating coming in. However, if you're in that last dinner seating I've stayed for over two hours chatting with my tablemates, and the crew didn't seem to mind. They cleaned up all of our dishes and linens and just left us chatting, because we weren't bothering anyone.


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## RRrich (Mar 20, 2010)

The lounge-rats are sometimes so bad that folks in sleepers seeking a change in scenery are forced to take a seat in coach!


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## haolerider (Mar 20, 2010)

RRrich said:


> The lounge-rats are sometimes so bad that folks in sleepers seeking a change in scenery are forced to take a seat in coach!


While this can sometimes be a problem, the tables can be shared. Don't be afraid to just ask if you can sit down and share the table. If the person refuses, then you can go to the Conductor and get some assistance. On the corridor, the Conductors are right there in the lounge, generally counting tickets and following the radio instructions. Only rarely have I seen someone refuse to share a table. Most people aren't that brave.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 20, 2010)

Many these so-called electronic conveniences people seem to can't live without have caused a deterioration in rail travel quality. If it's not someone bluthering annoyingly on a cell phone, someone else is tying up a table with a laptop (it's bad enough being held hostage to a phone and I'm not about ready to own a laptop for that same reason). Fortunately Amtrak has at least a few crew members who run a tight ship and request phone talkers take it to the lounge or turn it off and laptops are confined to your seatback table or Sleeper.

But I agree a more uniform system wide policy needs to be in effect to give everyone a fair shake at the Lounge.


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## jis (Mar 20, 2010)

The only time that I have occupied a seat in the cafe for the entire trip, and that has happened more often than one would guess, is when I get on a Metropark, and find that there isn't a seat to be found on the train. This happens more often than you think, because the monthly tickets are not counted in the inventory that drives the reservation system. Technically the monthly holders are supposed to vacate the seats for reservation holders I guess, but the problem still remains:

(a) Who is going to go through that hassle while schleping your bag around, and

(b) Even if they did vacate a seat, where will they go but to the cafe?

So I don't believe it is possible to create an uniform rule for lounges that would apply uniformly to LD trains and heavily used Corridor trains.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Mar 20, 2010)

KurtisB said:


> I think that people should also be allowed to use laptops on those tables, as well. That is, as long as they aren't hogging them for too long or the car isn't full of others. The tray tables either in coach or sleeper simply don't do the job, for me at least.



There isn't a rule against using your laptop on those tables, I have seen passengers and crew have their laptops out on lounge tables.


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## amamba (Mar 20, 2010)

I often sit in the lounge when riding between BOS and PVD because its a) almost empty and b) pretty quiet and c) then I don't have to sit with someone.

Also, there have been some pretty crowded trains that I have been on where a group of four people gets on at RTE and then end up sitting in the lounge (and I assume, staying there for their entire trip) because its the only place they can find four seats together.

I think, dlagrua, that the NEC corridor trains you are just going to have to deal with people sitting in the lounge. Be happy that you have a seat at all in the coach cars - because its most likely that the people in the lounge don't.

I have also taken a seat in the lounge when boarding in Trenton, NJ for a trip back to New England and sitting there until NYP because its impossible to find a seat.


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## RRrich (Mar 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I've had occasion to take the NE regional train twice in the last year. On both occasions the trip went well and arrived on time. However what really gets me are the rude passengers that take all of the cafe car tables for the entire trip. if you go there you see a crowd of discourteous and rude individuals sitting there, not even eating or drinking and clogging up all the seats for the entire trips. If you walk down to get a cup of coffee you can't even sit there as the seat hogs take them the entire trip. I know that this rude disregard for other passengers would not be allowed on overnight runs but on the corridor runs, no disipline or rule is exercised. Its about time that Amtrak rules that dining and cafe car users can only tie up the tables while eating or drinking. Granted if someone stays a few minutes beyond that so what, but everyone should be able to take advantage of the seating not just the greedy and rude hogs.


Do we really want Govt/Big Brother telling us what to do, how to live our lives?

This thread is making me feel like an Anarchist!


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## dlagrua (Mar 20, 2010)

RRrich said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > I've had occasion to take the NE regional train twice in the last year. On both occasions the trip went well and arrived on time. However what really gets me are the rude passengers that take all of the cafe car tables for the entire trip. if you go there you see a crowd of discourteous and rude individuals sitting there, not even eating or drinking and clogging up all the seats for the entire trips. If you walk down to get a cup of coffee you can't even sit there as the seat hogs take them the entire trip. I know that this rude disregard for other passengers would not be allowed on overnight runs but on the corridor runs, no disipline or rule is exercised. Its about time that Amtrak rules that dining and cafe car users can only tie up the tables while eating or drinking. Granted if someone stays a few minutes beyond that so what, but everyone should be able to take advantage of the seating not just the greedy and rude hogs.
> ...



I do not believe that's the point. You go out to eat in a restaurant or diner, and you are not free to stay there all night, are you? You don't use your computer on the kitchen table when the family chooses to eat do you?

A simple sign in the cafe car 30 minutes at the tables max. would do the trick. If that didn't work I would disable all the outlets and isolate the cafe car and jam all wireless connections- while leaving them availabe in the coaches.

I am against big brother telling us how to run our lives but very much for creating an environment that provides courtesy to all. If there are no seats in coach then by all means take the tables in the cafe car. However if there are seats available everyone should have a chance to sit down at a table to enjoy food and drink.


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## NorthCoastHiawatha (Mar 20, 2010)

> I do not believe that's the point. You go out to eat in a restaurant or diner, and you are not free to stay there all night, are you? You don't use your computer on the kitchen table when the family chooses to eat do you? A simple sign in the cafe car 30 minutes at the tables max. would do the trick. If that didn't work I would disable all the outlets and isolate the cafe car and jam all wireless connections- while leaving them availabe in the coaches.
> 
> I am against big brother telling us how to run our lives but very much for creating an environment that provides courtesy to all. If there are no seats in coach then by all means take the tables in the cafe car. However if there are seats available everyone should have a chance to sit down at a table to enjoy food and drink.


All I can say is wow, I strongly disagree I don't really like the idea of a time limit.


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## railiner (Mar 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I would disable all the outlets and isolate the cafe car and jam all wireless connections- while leaving them availabe in the coaches. .



Now see.....there is where we strongly disagree.....I would much prefer the coach environment to be quiet, and free of phone or other chatter. I would prefer for those who wish to socialize in person or on the phone to go to the lounge car, as that is what the purpose of it is.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 20, 2010)

I bring my laptop with me and it fits fine on the seat-back table cooling pad and all. I use it to watch movies while looking outside(I can multitask "gasp" yes it is possible) WITH my earphones. I also do not talk on my cellphone 24/7 i use it for work or emergency's or if my family needs to get a hold of me while traveling. Installing a limit on the cafe lounge car would work. Not all of use are insane with our laptops or cellphones. I still have a "GASP" land-line phone that is actually CORDED


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Mar 20, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> I do not believe that's the point. You go out to eat in a restaurant or diner, and you are not free to stay there all night, are you? You don't use your computer on the kitchen table when the family chooses to eat do you? A simple sign in the cafe car 30 minutes at the tables max. would do the trick. If that didn't work I would disable all the outlets and isolate the cafe car and jam all wireless connections- while leaving them availabe in the coaches.
> 
> I am against big brother telling us how to run our lives but very much for creating an environment that provides courtesy to all. If there are no seats in coach then by all means take the tables in the cafe car. However if there are seats available everyone should have a chance to sit down at a table to enjoy food and drink.


I can think of other non-Amtrak examples.

There is an Arby's near where I work, that offers free WiFi, and a group of college kids (I think by their ages) who infest the place. They are at over 1/2 the tables, with extension cords running all over the floor to connect up their all AC power adapters. Are they customers? Well, possibly initially when they bought their small value drink, but after a dozen free refills over a course of many hours, I am not sure they qualify as current customers anymore.

On cruise ships, even though the ones I have been on have signs that desk chairs cannot be reserved, and after 40 minutes, personal items will be removed and the deck chair will be made available for others to use. You will be surprised of the number of passengers who come back many hours later, and have a temper tantrum if someone is in their chair.

I would welcome "big brother", especially if he is 240lbs, muscular, and just loves pounding the crap out of inconsiderate people. h34r:


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## GG-1 (Mar 20, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> . Not all of use are insane with our laptops or cellphones. I still have a "GASP" land-line phone that is actually CORDED


YOU TO! 

Aloha


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 20, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > . Not all of use are insane with our laptops or cellphones. I still have a "GASP" land-line phone that is actually CORDED
> ...


I still have a couple 8-track players and record players and i know how they work. I even have actual working 8-track tapes.   We need help we should be using I pods and I phones and blue tooth


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## GG-1 (Mar 20, 2010)

amtrakwolverine said:


> We need help we should be using I pods and I phones and blue tooth


Wash your mind Apple no way.

Aloha


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## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 20, 2010)

I always enjoy looking at movies and documentaries from the 40s and 50s and seeing how "well behaved" folks are in the Lounge happily relaxing with a magazine or paper, smoking and chatting, perhaps over a well mixed adult beverage while quiet music may be playing in the background.


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## Ispolkom (Mar 20, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I always enjoy looking at movies and documentaries from the 40s and 50s and seeing how "well behaved" folks are in the Lounge happily relaxing with a magazine or paper, smoking and chatting, perhaps over a well mixed adult beverage while quiet music may be playing in the background.


And so stylishly dressed.

On the other hand, I'm glad that the smoking is gone.


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## rrdude (Mar 20, 2010)

haolerider said:


> RRrich said:
> 
> 
> > The lounge-rats are sometimes so bad that folks in sleepers seeking a change in scenery are forced to take a seat in coach!
> ...


And you'd be surprised how often those "table hogs", after you join them, "decide" it's time to relocate themselves.


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## battalion51 (Mar 20, 2010)

For the record, this is one of those endless series topics. There is no way we're going to come to a universal consensus here.

Again, I don't think imposing a time limit would create the sort of environment Amtrak is looking to achieve with any of its lounge cars. I won't disagree that a note about courtesy when it comes to table use would probably be a positive thing. But in the end it is really up to the LSA and/or Conductors to police this. I have seen Conductors ask people to leave if they're just playing a card game and it is during a "meal period" and there are people that want to use the space to eat. But this is completely up to the discretion of the crew that you have on board. As was said earlier, if there's someone by themselves, step outside of your box and ask to share a table with them. Odds are they won't say no.


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## rrdude (Mar 20, 2010)

RRrich said:


> Do we really want Govt/Big Brother telling us what to do, how to live our lives?
> This thread is making me feel like an Anarchist!



Get real, it's not "Govt/Big Brother" who needs to do the telling, it's the COMPANY, called Amtrak. Disregard where the funding comes from. What if it was Virgin running the train, would you feel that Virgin COULD do it, because they didn't receive Gov't funds?


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## Ryan (Mar 20, 2010)

RRrich said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > I've had occasion to take the NE regional train twice in the last year. On both occasions the trip went well and arrived on time. However what really gets me are the rude passengers that take all of the cafe car tables for the entire trip. if you go there you see a crowd of discourteous and rude individuals sitting there, not even eating or drinking and clogging up all the seats for the entire trips. If you walk down to get a cup of coffee you can't even sit there as the seat hogs take them the entire trip. I know that this rude disregard for other passengers would not be allowed on overnight runs but on the corridor runs, no disipline or rule is exercised. Its about time that Amtrak rules that dining and cafe car users can only tie up the tables while eating or drinking. Granted if someone stays a few minutes beyond that so what, but everyone should be able to take advantage of the seating not just the greedy and rude hogs.
> ...


Amen! I think that it's pretty well understood that getting a table is a crap shoot and you've just got to get lucky (and I'm A-OK with that).



rrdude said:


> RRrich said:
> 
> 
> > Do we really want Govt/Big Brother telling us what to do, how to live our lives?
> ...


I think that you're missing the point - government or not doing the telling, micromanaging the tables is annoying. Not interested.


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## Gingee (Mar 20, 2010)

I didn't know you had service on the trains. We have a sleeper coming up. In a way I would love to play on my computer but on another thought, it is just something else to carry. Do all trains have WII fi or whatever they call them? Is there a charge to us?

I also agree on the chair hogs on the cruises. Those people drive me nuts.


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## railiner (Mar 20, 2010)

battalion51 said:


> As was said earlier, if there's someone by themselves, step outside of your box and ask to share a table with them. Odds are they won't say no.


If I was carrying food, looking for a table, I wouldn't ask permission to share a table. What I would do is politely ask: "Is this seat taken?" If the answer is "no", then I would say "thank you", and sit myself down. Even if a person is sitting at a table previously, for whatever purpose, he/she is only entitled to the seat they are occupying, not the entire table, just as it is in the dining car, not like a restaurant where you usually have exclusive use of your table.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 21, 2010)

here you go for those who never shut up on the train whether someone is snoring loudly in the next roomette or your seat mate won't quit yaking on the phone 24/7 etc problem solved with this device here 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNJNbv7Fwk...feature=related


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 21, 2010)

The secret to getting a seat or table to yourself is being excessively talkative. Some people like conversation, some people don't. But in my years, I could count on my hands the number of people who can put up with my professorial monologues. To parapharse Cap'n Picard, "An incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic really quite..." ANNOYING.

You just keep talking, don't let them get a word in edgewise, and make what you are talking about as boring and technical as possible. They go away. Its amazing. I don't do it often, but once in a while someone who sits at my table bores me and... HELP I'M TALKING AND A I CAN'T SHUT UP!

If it doesn't work, and it will, the next step is to simply move into their personal space. Friendly (and just friendly) and nice and talkative and a general Del Griffith. If you could take my professorial lectures with me leaning back, lets see if you can take them with me leaning all the way forward, my nose 2 feet from yours.

Generally, though, given the choice, I prefer company. You meet interesting people on trains. Least of all on the Regionals, I admit.


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2010)

Gingee said:


> I didn't know you had service on the trains. We have a sleeper coming up. In a way I would love to play on my computer but on another thought, it is just something else to carry. Do all trains have WII fi or whatever they call them? Is there a charge to us?


At present only a few select trains like Acela and the Downeaster have wireless service. Currently both are free. No long distance trains have WiFi service.


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## caravanman (Mar 21, 2010)

I hate rude and inconsiderate behaviour. I often make a point of sitting next to the person who has a bag on the seat next to them, just to emphasise their lack of consideration for their fellow man. Sadly, lot's of us don't know how to behave with consideration, and have a "Me, Me, Me" outlook.

Nobody wants to be told what to do, but civilization requires common understanding and courtesy.. If we lack these, then it is all down to the strongest dominating the weakest, not a great way to run a train cafe.. (or the world).

If you want to quickly clear the table or even the whole room, my tip is to just mention that you are a train enthusiast..

Ed


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## Gingee (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks Alan. That comment has made my decision. Now I don't need to bring a computer.


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## baltimore_flyer (Mar 22, 2010)

This thread brings back the reason for the design of the Acela cafe car seating!


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## MJL (Mar 22, 2010)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I always enjoy looking at movies and documentaries from the 40s and 50s and seeing how "well behaved" folks are in the Lounge happily relaxing with a magazine or paper, *smoking* and chatting, perhaps over a well mixed adult beverage while quiet music may be playing in the background.



 LOL :lol:


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