# Two police officers hit and killed by south shore train



## Steve4031 (Dec 18, 2018)

https://ktla.com/2018/12/17/2-chicago-police-officers-fatally-struck-by-train/

The officers were responding to a shots fired alert from equipment designed to detect gunshots.  They chased the suspect onto the tracks where they were hit by the train.  Other police captured someone and recovered the gun.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 18, 2018)

Further reports have it that they were hit from behind, and never saw the train coming, as they were dodging another oncoming train (which may have been sounding its horn and drew their attention.)

Not to sound harsh, but apparently rail safety needs to be taught at the academy.  Obviously, the officers were in pursuit of someone with a gun, but to run out onto busy tracks at rush hour without ensuring that trains have been stopped is inviting tragedy.   

Not a word, yet, about the engineer/motorman.  That poor person is going to have to deal with being an inadvertent cop killer, and the scorn it entails.  

I don't mean to sound insensitive.  Yet, while these officers will likely be honored as heros, I just don't understand how one can be serving public safety by outright disregarding public safety.  Officers, truly, need to be better trained for the good and safety of all: police and public.


----------



## Mystic River Dragon (Dec 18, 2018)

NorthShore,

Thank you. I wanted to say the same thing but was not sure how to phrase it.


----------



## Steve4031 (Dec 18, 2018)

The engineer is not going to be scorned for being a cop killer.  He had know idea what to expect. And had no time to react. If you apply the same logic to other trespasser strikes then engineers could be child killers, murderers, etc. 

my condolences to the police officers in their families.  

I think the issue is that the Chicago police department does not have a procedure for this.  I don’t think the police officers are properly trained.  I have read other stories about police shooting at a suspect driving a car while it was driving away towards police at the other end of the block.  The bullets could have hit the other officers. 

Its tough.  It’s Monday morning policing to second guess the actions of the police After the fact.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 18, 2018)

I realize I wasn't in their shoes.  But, I mourn two dead officers...who should be alive, but for their own actions, which ought be questioned for best practices and safety.   To not do so is, essentially, to tacitly approve of their deaths with the idea that the cops are always acting rightly and in best interests.  The matter deserves a full and transparent investigation.

A suspect was not even apprehended until hours later.  Would it have taken that much effort to use their radios to contact the dispather and pause while other officers helped monitor the embankment until train traffic halted?   

And, minimally, I'd hope this spurs a department in a city with so much rail traffic to have all officers sit for an Operation Lifesaver session, learning to, "Look Listen Live!"


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Dec 18, 2018)

sad part is Police should know not to go on tracks unless a hold is requested to railroad.

there two officers should not have been killed or been on place they were.


----------



## JRR (Dec 18, 2018)

I mourn the officers who were risking their lives to attempt to apprehend a fleeing suspect who had already fired a shot according to reports. There is no doubt that they could have and should have been more careful and their lack of total attention to all possible dangers cost them their lives.

Remember, however, they were trying to catch someone who was a very real and present danger to the community. In those situations, one does not have time to calmly sit back and calculate all possible courses of action while in the active pursuit. Unless you have been in their shoes or similar ones, I’d suggest more empathy for the fallen heroes, their families and fellow officers.


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Dec 18, 2018)

Been in shoes of train crews having to face this kind of ignorance, any questions?


----------



## SarahZ (Dec 18, 2018)

Dutchrailnut said:


> Been in shoes of train crews having to face this kind of ignorance, any questions?


Nobody is saying one "side" is more tragic than the other. Both are tragic - the loss of the officers' lives while they were trying to protect the public and the train crew's suffering as they deal with the ramifications of striking two fellow human beings.

I did not take JRR's comment as anything other than a plea to show empathy toward all involved, even if you may think you would have done better in that situation.


----------



## Rover (Dec 19, 2018)

I pray this tragedy will be the impetus for all police forces across the nation that have any rail in their vicinity, to have a safety/policy training module for all actions around train tracks (whether in a vehicle or not) for all officers, regardless of duty assignments.


----------



## neroden (Dec 19, 2018)

Steve4031 said:


> https://ktla.com/2018/12/17/2-chicago-police-officers-fatally-struck-by-train/
> 
> The officers were responding to a shots fired alert from equipment designed to detect gunshots.  They chased the suspect onto the tracks where they were hit by the train.  Other police captured someone and recovered the gun.


Untrained incompetents.  I have zero empathy for the self-killing police.  Anyone who RAN ONTO ACTIVE RAILROAD TRACKS is an idiot.  Chicago's full of railroads; they should have known basic rail safety before the age of 8.

This speaks very badly to the standards used for Chicago police hiring and training.  Do they require that their police officers have low IQs, as some police departments do?  (This is documented, police departments which refuse to hire people who do well on IQ tests.  Crazy.)

There's a *lot* of stories about Chicago police endangering public safety in various ways (one was mentioned earlier in this topic, you can find plenty of others by Googling) so I think there's probably a toxic, corrupt culture of unjustified entitlement in the Chicago police -- the opposite of "protect and serve" -- an "I can do whatever I want" culture.  And maybe they can get away with this when they're illegally arresting innocent people or running their "black site" in Homan Square, but they can't order the laws of physics to change.  This corrupt culture ought to be fixed, but what mayor will have the guts to clean out the Augean Stables of the Chicago police?


----------



## cirdan (Dec 19, 2018)

NorthShore said:


> A suspect was not even apprehended until hours later.  Would it have taken that much effort to use their radios to contact the dispather and pause while other officers helped monitor the embankment until train traffic halted?


That may not be as easy as it sounds. They would have to know who the responsible dispatcher for that precise bit of railroad track is and then to establish and communicate their precise location and even then, you can't stop all trains at the flick of a switch. All this would consume valuable time during which the suspect would be getting away.

Police officers should definitely do some basic railroad safety training as part of their overall traning program, and learn safe behavior on and around railroad tracks. I do believe this is often lacking.  On the other hand, sometimes split second decisons are required and police officers need to decide what level of risk is acceptable in chasing a suspect. This is far from being the only dangerous situations that police officers are likely to get into as part of doing their job. People who make split second decisons wil tragically sometimes get it wrong.


----------



## cpotisch (Dec 19, 2018)

NorthShore said:


> Further reports have it that they were hit from behind, and never saw the train coming, as they were dodging another oncoming train (which may have been sounding its horn and drew their attention.)
> 
> Not to sound harsh, but apparently rail safety needs to be taught at the academy.  Obviously, the officers were in pursuit of someone with a gun, but to run out onto busy tracks at rush hour without ensuring that trains have been stopped is inviting tragedy.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I honestly wouldn’t even be surprised if they prosecute the engineer, just to make a statement (here in NYC, cops tend to really go after anyone who does anything like this). It’s just not that hard to stay off active tracks. People should understand this stuff.  hboy:


----------



## fairviewroad (Dec 19, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Agreed. I honestly wouldn’t even be surprised if they prosecute the engineer, just to make a statement


Unless there is evidence of impairment, I would be _extremely_ surprised if the engineer was prosecuted.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 19, 2018)

JRR said:


> (1) They were trying to catch someone who was a very real and present danger to the community. (2) In those situations, one does not have time to calmly sit back and calculate all possible courses of action while in the active pursuit. Unless you have been in their shoes or similar ones, I’d suggest more empathy for the (3) fallen heroes, their families and fellow officers.


1.  This statement assumes facts unsupported by available evidence at the time of your post.

2.  There is an enormous middle ground between risking your life with excessive carelessness and calmly contemplating every possible action and outcome.

3.  There are few concepts more convoluted and meaningless than occupational heroism.


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Dec 19, 2018)

fairviewroad said:


> Unless there is evidence of impairment, I would be _extremely_ surprised if the engineer was prosecuted.


only way crew will get alcohol and drug tested is if they hit another employee or if there was just cause. to be tested in this situation would only have been warranted if they ignored a radio or train order to restrict speed due to police activity.

 If the police entered track without notification, testing of crew would warrant a lawsuit.


----------



## Rover (Dec 20, 2018)

Dutchrailnut said:


> only way crew will get alcohol and drug tested is if they hit another employee or if there was just cause. to be tested in this situation would only have been warranted if they ignored a radio or train order to restrict speed due to police activity.
> 
> If the police entered track without notification, testing of crew would warrant a lawsuit.


Maybe the Police Officers should be tested....


----------



## cpotisch (Dec 20, 2018)

Rover said:


> Maybe the Police Officers should be tested....


I don’t think so. This sounds much more like bad judgment than actual impairment, IMHO. They definitely should have known not to run onto the tracks, but I don’t see how intoxication or “influence” would have caused this particular incident.


----------



## cpotisch (Dec 21, 2018)

neroden said:


> Do﻿ they require that their police officer﻿s have low IQs, as some police departments do?  (This is documented, police departments which refuse to hire people who do well on IQ te﻿sts.  Crazy.)﻿


Why on earth would they do that, and do you have any proof?


----------



## AG1 (Dec 21, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Why on earth would they do that, and do you have any proof?


It is general knowledge in the law enforcement community that the most effective  patrol  officers are those that tend to be rough, ready and street wise who can best confront the despots of society. In other words, the grade school bully or troublemaker probably would grow up to be more effective as a policeman than the studious class nerd that never made trouble. In contrast, the detectives and forensics experts tend to have advanced their education.  ref. My police training.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Dec 21, 2018)

AGI: Nothing wrong with Street wise Cops, but there are way too many shootings and frame ups of minorities by Thugs in Blue, while their so called Brothers in Blue look the other way or flat out Lie and Cover up for them! :help:

"Lock them up! Lock them up!"

FYI: I was a Certified Peace Officer and Arson Investigatior (a requirement in the State of Texas for Arson Investigators)while attending College.

I carried a weapon while working Arson cases and also served as a Reserve  Patrol Police Officer in my City. 

I also have several LE Relatives in my family  including Highway Patrol Officers and  a Retired FBI agent so am not a Cop basher but am appalled by what's going on in far too many LE Agencies when it comes to mistreatment of people out on the streets. YMMV


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 21, 2018)

There has been a telling development via the charges not filed against the accused suspect.

While he has been charged with gun offenses (he admits to finding a gun and firing it to see if it worked) he has not been charged with felony murder.  Under Illinois law, if anyone dies in connection to the commission of crime (even if not the doing of the criminal) prosecution can place this charge.   It is regularly employed in the state, and many serve additional time for it. Such charges might have been expected in this case.  So, it's sort of surprizing that they weren't.

The police union is pushing for more significant charges to be added.  I think that's a mistake on their part.  If either felony murder or even the lesser charge of tresspassing upon railroad property were employed, it would force the defense attorney to outright attack the police actions, arguing that their deaths are their fault alone.  Even charging the accused offender with tresspassing exposes the fact that no one belonged on those tracks.

The state's attorney has done the police officers and department well in declining to press such charges, allowing them a burial with greater public respect and reputation.

But, it also tacitly tells us that they recognize the reality of where fault was in their actions.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 22, 2018)

AG1 said:


> It is general knowledge in the law enforcement community that the most effective  patrol  officers are those that tend to be rough, ready and street wise who can best confront the despots of society. In other words, the grade school bully or troublemaker probably would grow up to be more effective as a policeman than the studious class nerd that never made trouble. In contrast, the detectives and forensics experts tend to have advanced their education.  ref. My police training.


There is a vast middle ground between bullies and bookworms.  There is also a growing awareness of a potentially significant correlation between employment as a first responder and unsolved/unprosecuted criminal activity.  We are slowly beginning to realize that the traits and experiences that may lead someone to seek employment as a first responder are likely to be correlated with the traits and experiences that may lead someone toward the path of a career criminal.  That being the case, there are likely to be a substantial number of people who share motives and actions of both paths.  In a self-selecting system there should be similar numbers of crossover participants.  In other words for each "criminal informant" you would expect roughly one "crooked cop."  The vetting/training/hiring process will weed out some of these bad apples, but many will likely be missed or ignored.  When someone who has criminal tendencies is accepted and trained as a first responder they will likely find themselves in a position that is both uniquely destructive and exceptionally well protected from conventional discovery and prosecution.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 24, 2018)

On Sunday, in Chicago, an armed robbery offender attempted to escape by running down L tracks.  He was apprehended by officers - after the electricity to the third rail was shut off and trains stopped.


----------



## Trogdor (Dec 25, 2018)

NorthShore said:


> On Sunday, in Chicago, an armed robbery offender attempted to escape by running down L tracks.  He was apprehended by officers - after the electricity to the third rail was shut off and trains stopped.




That’s actually somewhat common. I remember a number of incidents like that from my CTA days, and even now still see the occasional “trains delayed due to police activity” announcements (granted, not all of them are about cops chasing suspects down tracks).

That said, I’m under the impression that there’s a much better communication line between the police department and CTA than police and the various railroads. Further, the police chasing someone on CTA will know “I’m on the Blue Line at Medical District” but I don’t know how trained they are to know the specific railroad, subdivision and milepost of a location if they are chasing someone on a mainline railroad. And that’s what it would take to get the same level of protection.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 27, 2018)

Trogdor said:


> That’s actually somewhat common. I remember a number of incidents like that from my CTA days, and even now still see the occasional “trains delayed due to police activity” announcements (granted, not all of them are about cops chasing suspects down tracks).
> 
> That said, I’m under the impression that there’s a much better communication line between the police department and CTA than police and the various railroads. Further, the police chasing someone on CTA will know “I’m on the Blue Line at Medical District” but I don’t know how trained they are to know the specific railroad, subdivision and milepost of a location if they are chasing someone on a mainline railroad. And that’s what it would take to get the same level of protection.


Given.   But, then, ought not there be some general familiarity and training about these things, too?

Admittedly, the morass of tracks and interchanges in and around Chicago can be confusing, even to a railfan.  Still, how does someone who works regularly in an area not know that a certain set of tracks is the old I.C. mainline with six busy tracks or that Metra and South Shore runs frequent trains up there?  Plus, with information readily available in digitized maps at fingertips of computer entry, ought not an emergency services dispather be able to pull up the appropriate information quickly, with basic street locations?  

Worst case scenario is that much of the trackage in the city has some sort of Metra service on it.  Contacting their police department or dispather ought to assist in sorting such things out.


----------



## Trogdor (Dec 28, 2018)

NorthShore said:


> Given.   But, then, ought not there be some general familiarity and training about these things, too?
> 
> Admittedly, the morass of tracks and interchanges in and around Chicago can be confusing, even to a railfan.  Still, how does someone who works regularly in an area not know that a certain set of tracks is the old I.C. mainline with six busy tracks or that Metra and South Shore runs frequent trains up there?  Plus, with information readily available in digitized maps at fingertips of computer entry, ought not an emergency services dispather be able to pull up the appropriate information quickly, with basic street locations?
> 
> Worst case scenario is that much of the trackage in the city has some sort of Metra service on it.  Contacting their police department or dispather ought to assist in sorting such things out.




Maybe, maybe not. I honestly don’t know what training police receive regarding railroads in the area.  Perhaps Metra’s police department knows, but, honestly, by the time you get in contact with them, get them to figure out where you are, and then get in contact with the correct dispatcher, so much time will have passed that there’s no way you’ll have kept up pursuit of the suspect.

At CTA, you call their control center, tell them where you are, and they will get in touch with the power controller (who is located in the same room, a few feet away) and they can have power off and trains stopped within 30 seconds.

Personally, I’ve had two occasions to call railroad police to report dangerous trespasser activity.  One time, I saw a team of photographers scurrying from a crossing when the Empire Builder went through, and when the train cleared, they went right back to walking along the tracks.  The specific track is owned by Metra and dispatched by Canadian Pacific.  Whose police should I call?  Of course, at the time, I didn’t have the Metra police phone number (and it either wasn’t listed on the crossing gate or I didn’t think to check), but it was less than 1/4 mile from the end of Amtrak territory (CP Canal, north/west of Chicago Union Station) and I did have their number in my phone, so I called them.  It took 5-10 minutes to get through to someone, explain the situation, state exactly where I was, etc.  That’s far too long for an actual emergency.  (Side note, since I’m friends with a manager that runs the Amtrak control center in Chicago, I also called him so he could get a notice to outbound crews to be aware of the trespassers as they leave).

A second time, I saw a group of well-meaning, but evidently not sanctioned by the railroad (no safety vests or gear) folks picking up litter near the Jefferson Park Metra station, including stepping on the tracks, going well beyond the passenger platform, etc.  I can’t remember if I saw the Union Pacific police number posted at the station or if I had to google it, but it was an endless string of menu options (“If you are organizing a parade and the parade route is crossing our tracks, press 317”).  After several minutes of not finding the right menu option, I just gave up and hung up.

Now, I can guess/hope that local cops have a more direct number than a member of the public, but I know better than to automatically assume they do.  I can hope that cops receive training about the railroads in their specific area, but know better than to automatically assume they do.  Further, even if they do, I certainly wouldn’t assume that individual police officers are going to remember each of the dozen or two railroads and which one is where.  It might seem obvious to us to say “well, duh, that’s Metra Electric, that’s NICTD, that’s ... etc.” but I wouldn’t assume it’s obvious to everyone else.  I’ve known cops to be flat-out wrong about more obvious stuff than that, without the added stress of chasing a suspect with a gun.

I’m not going to say what these cops did was right or safe (clearly, in hindsight, it wasn’t), but if we are going to expect cops to have to go through a 5 or 10 minute process just to chase a suspect down the railroad, then that’s almost an instant getaway for any criminal that figures it out.  Just run down the railroad, they can’t chase you.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 28, 2018)

Yeah, but at least then it's the criminal that gets killed.   I'd still argue that a suspect who runs onto a railroad is stupid, not just for being on the tracks, but for essentially fencing oneself in.  As for chases, not every chase is a good chase.

CPD's Chief of Patrol said, in passing, "We'll learn from this."  I hope they do.   Then, the officers deaths will not have been in vain.

The era of high tech in which we live, alone, provides a lot of opportunity with an advanced emergency management center.  Perhaps, some sort of railroad personnel should be brought into that building for both planning and more effective communications/operations. 

Though, of course, simple knowledge goes far.   As the fire department jokes, now they need a high end computer to do in dispatching what Ken Little had all in his head.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Dec 28, 2018)

Trogdor said:


> Personally, I’ve had two occasions to call railroad police to report dangerous trespasser activity.


I feel so much safer knowing that you took it upon yourself to report people as dangerous as trainspotters and trash collectors.  I'd give you a gold star if I could.


----------



## NorthShore (Dec 28, 2018)

Trogdor said:


> I can hope that cops receive training about the railroads in their specific area, but know better than to automatically assume they do.  Further, even if they do, I certainly wouldn’t assume that individual police officers are going to remember each of the dozen or two railroads and which one is where.  It might seem obvious to us to say “well, duh, that’s Metra Electric, that’s NICTD, that’s ... etc.” but I wouldn’t assume it’s obvious to everyone else.


They are expected to know where dozen of streets (roads) are, in order to respond to calls.   What's a few more (even if they are rail roads?) 

Given, someone might not, immediately, remember where some odd half block street that only exists in one neighborhood comes in, exactly, instinctively.   But, not knowing what the I.C. is (a road that seemingly everyone who has ever been to the Southeast Side knows) is akin to not knowing what the big interstate highway is that runs through an area. 

Spend enough time in an area, and it's easy to get to know things.


----------



## Trogdor (Dec 28, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I feel so much safer knowing that you took it upon yourself to report people as dangerous as trainspotters and trash collectors.  I'd give you a gold star if I could.




If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.


----------



## cpotisch (Dec 28, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I’ve had two occasions to call railroad police to report dangerous trespasser activity.
> ...


So because they are trainspotters and trash collectors he should just let them risk their lives on the tracks?


----------



## Trogdor (Dec 28, 2018)

Also, I never said anything about trainspotters.  If we're speaking of the photographers, they had professional equipment and were in an area where a fence bordered the right of way on both sides, so they really couldn't have been anywhere except directly on the tracks.


----------



## Ryan (Dec 28, 2018)

While I agree that expecting the cop on the street to know who to call is a bridge too far, the (police) dispatcher should know where his guys are and have the requisite knowledge to be able to call up the correct (train) dispatcher in short order.  Something as simple as a color coded map laying out who to call to get the trains stopped isn't too much to have on hand near your desk.


----------



## pennyk (Dec 28, 2018)

Please try to keep the discussion on topic.

Thank you.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Dec 29, 2018)

As sad as this is, I'm willing to bet this will turn ugly very soon.

Man linked to officers’ deaths back in court

https://wgntv.com/2018/12/27/edward-brown-court-hearing/



> There has been some debate over whether Brown should face increased charges of manslaughter or murder.
> 
> Brown's attorney, Frank Kostouros, has said his client, who has no criminal record, should not be held responsible for the officer's deaths.
> 
> ...


----------



## cpotisch (Dec 30, 2018)

Manslaughter, maybe. But charging him with murder would just be ridiculous. :unsure:


----------



## Metra Electric Rider (Dec 30, 2018)

I had an interesting chat with a fellow passenger about the incident about a week later (I'm a daily rider, but wasn't affected directly, although trains were still delayed by 30 minutes the next morning). She thought that there should be "in this day and age" a system that automatically shut down the trains if there were people on the tracks. That would be a brilliant solution on the South Chicago branch with pedestrian crossings and center median running. She was also angry that Metra somehow couldn't have dozens of PACE (suburban bus service) buses at the ready to get people to their stations. They were just dumped off the trains with a "you're on your on from here" apparently.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Jan 1, 2019)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I had an interesting chat with a fellow passenger about the incident about a week later (I'm a daily rider, but wasn't affected directly, although trains were still delayed by 30 minutes the next morning). She thought that there should be "in this day and age" a system that automatically shut down the trains if there were people on the tracks. That would be a brilliant solution on the South Chicago branch with pedestrian crossings and center median running.


So, she thinks there should be some sort of universal on/off switch that can shut down all trains because of something on the tracks? What if the person is supposed to be on the tracks?

How about staying off the tracks?


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Jan 1, 2019)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> She was also angry that Metra somehow couldn't have dozens of PACE (suburban bus service) buses at the ready to get people to their stations. They were just dumped off the trains with a "you're on your on from here" apparently.


Yes... because every bus service I know has dozens of extra buses just hangin out, at the ready at 6pm in the evening. I mean, it isn’t rush hour or anything, right?  Those buses aren’t moving their own clientele or anything...at rush hour. hboy:


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 1, 2019)

Trogdor said:


> If I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.


I guess that's why I recently received this book entitled "Confessions of a Middle-Aged Hall Monitor." <_<



cpotisch said:


> So because they are trainspotters and trash collectors he should just let them risk their lives on the tracks?


If all he wanted to do was save their lives he could have simply spoken to them first.  Police are not neutral observers and they don't always react in a calm and rational manner.  In fact they are often hyper suspicious and prone to rapid escalation of any perceived hostility.  This is partly due to training (or lack thereof) but also due to the fact that almost anyone they encounter could be a well armed threat to them.  For that reason it's advisable to call the police more as a last resort rather than your default/universal reaction.


----------



## Thirdrail7 (Jan 16, 2019)

Thus far, he's still only facing weapons charges.

Man linked to train deaths of 2 Chicago Police officers could be released soon



> Brown was back in court Monday where prosecutors revealed he's been indicted on the two weapons charges for which he was arrested.
> 
> Members of Brown's family, including his mother, were in the courtroom, but through his attorney, they declined to talk about the case.
> 
> ...


----------



## VentureForth (Feb 22, 2019)

If the tracks are shiny, move your hiney!


----------



## jis (Feb 22, 2019)

Remember the case of a shiny brand new Fire Truck that the Firemen parked too close to an active track causing it to get wiped out by a passing train. AFAIR it was somewhere in Michigan. People simply do not understand tracks and trains too much.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17 (Feb 22, 2019)

jis said:


> Remember the case of a shiny brand new Fire Truck that the Firemen parked too close to an active track causing it to get wiped out by a passing train. AFAIR it was somewhere in Michigan. People simply do not understand tracks and trains too much.


There was a similar recent case of a parked police car getting hit by a freight train in Durham, NC.


----------

