# Coast to coast daily Sunset Limited



## toddinde (Feb 18, 2019)

I moved to Arizona about a year and a half ago and have been involved in All Aboard Arizona. At the last meeting, somebody pointed out that the route of the Sunset Limited has more population and greater population growth than the Northeast Corridor. Driving on I-10, I see Greyhound busses packed to the gills as was my experience taking my daughter to the Tucson Greyhound Station to catch the bus to Phoenix. As figures like a billion dollars get casually thrown around, the fact is a billion dollars would get you a daily Sunset plus a return of the Sunset to Phoenix setting the stage for a Tucson Phoenix corridor. But the point of this post is to throw out an idea that has tremendous potential. Combine the Crescent with the Sunset as a daily Superliner train from Washington. West of Atlanta, route the train as the proposed Texas Crescent through Dallas/Fort Worth and Midland/Odessa through El Paso and onto the Sunset route. New Orleans could keep a through section of the Crescent to New Orleans as well as a New Orleans - Houston - El Paso connection to the Sunset. This concept would be a flagship, coast to coast train on a three night schedule. It would serve many of the great cities of the south and southwest. It could be fed by several connecting services that could be developed over the years. The Texas Eagle is already existent as is the Heartland Flyer. A Phoenix to Bakersfield and on to the San Joaquin route to northern California would be another. I think with the right marketing and reliable service, this would be a real winner.


----------



## Maglev (Feb 18, 2019)

toddinde said:


> I think with the right marketing and reliable service, this would be a real winner.


I have never seen Amtrak market long-distance services.


----------



## cpotisch (Feb 18, 2019)

toddinde said:


> At the last meeting, somebody pointed out that the route of the Sunset Limited has more population and greater population growth than the Northeast Corridor.


Yes, but the Sunset's route is also more than five times the length of the NEC, so the population per mile isn't nearly as high.



toddinde said:


> As figures like a billion dollars get casually thrown around, the fact is a billion dollars would get you a daily Sunset plus a return of the Sunset to Phoenix setting the stage for a Tucson Phoenix corridor


Not necessarily. Remember that last time they tried to make the Eagle to LAX daily, Union Pacific tried to charge an absurd amount of money. And Amtrak doesn't have many spare Superliners at all, so this would likely require a new order of long distance bi-levels, which would definitely cost a pretty penny.



toddinde said:


> Combine the Crescent with the Sunset as a daily Superliner train from Washington.


The Crescent has been suffering from horrific delays for many months now. Making it three times the length likely wouldn't help.



toddinde said:


> A Phoenix to Bakersfield and on to the San Joaquin route to northern California would be another. I think with the right marketing and reliable service, this would be a real winner


Except that would require passage over Tehachapi, which isn't set up to allow passenger trains through (except for the rare Coast Starlight detour).



toddinde said:


> I think with the right marketing and reliable service, this would be a real winner﻿. ﻿


That's quite a big "with".


----------



## sttom (Feb 18, 2019)

I could see a Phoenix-Tucson line working, but that would require equipment that Amtrak doesn't currently have spare equipment. Also there isn't enough capacity over Tehachapi Pass for a passenger train, let along more freight.


----------



## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 18, 2019)

toddinde said:


> I moved to Arizona about a year and a half ago and have been involved in All Aboard Arizona. At the last meeting, somebody pointed out that the route of the Sunset Limited has more population and greater population growth than the Northeast Corridor. Driving on I-10, I see Greyhound busses packed to the gills as was my experience taking my daughter to the Tucson Greyhound Station to catch the bus to Phoenix. As figures like a billion dollars get casually thrown around, the fact is a billion dollars would get you a daily Sunset plus a return of the Sunset to Phoenix setting the stage for a Tucson Phoenix corridor. But the point of this post is to throw out an idea that has tremendous potential. Combine the Crescent with the Sunset as a daily Superliner train from Washington. West of Atlanta, route the train as the proposed Texas Crescent through Dallas/Fort Worth and Midland/Odessa through El Paso and onto the Sunset route. New Orleans could keep a through section of the Crescent to New Orleans as well as a New Orleans - Houston - El Paso connection to the Sunset. This concept would be a flagship, coast to coast train on a three night schedule. It would serve many of the great cities of the south and southwest. It could be fed by several connecting services that could be developed over the years. The Texas Eagle is already existent as is the Heartland Flyer. A Phoenix to Bakersfield and on to the San Joaquin route to northern California would be another. I think with the right marketing and reliable service, this would be a real winner.


If they used Superliners on the Crescent, the furthest north they could go would be Washington. I don't know if that would be a deal breaker. Being from Philly, I'd  have to transfer in DC to get to ATL or NOL but if I can make one transfer in WAS to get to Texas or California that  might not be better than the current situation.


----------



## capltd29 (Feb 18, 2019)

I don’t think most people taking a multiple day train trip care about this as much as you think especially considering the absurd amount of frequencies between PHL and WAS. I’ve pretty much always had to transfer at Washington and it’s never been an issue, especially if you get a sleeper and can store your bags in the Club Acela.


----------



## west point (Feb 19, 2019)

Coast to coast?  With the many Amtrak equipment problems an almost complete standby train set would be needed in NOL to take care of bad order cars and locos.


----------



## neroden (Feb 22, 2019)

That population growth in the Southwest?  Climate change is going to reverse that before Amtrak returns to Phoenix.  :-(


----------



## daybeers (Feb 26, 2019)

neroden said:


> That population growth in the Southwest?  Climate change is going to reverse that before Amtrak returns to Phoenix.  :-(


OOOoof too real


----------



## west point (Feb 26, 2019)

About the condition of the train equipment after a cross country trip.  Suppose you clean up your car in LAX before you leave on a trip.  What does it look like  after traveling across the country?  Or how does 9  out of ten auto look after such a trip?


----------



## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 26, 2019)

west point said:


> About the condition of the train equipment after a cross country trip.  Suppose you clean up your car in LAX before you leave on a trip.  What does it look like  after traveling across the country?  Or how does 9  out of ten auto look after such a trip?


Amtrak has done LAX-ORL (LAX-MIA) before, who remembers that? The Texas Eagle CHI-LAX travels almost three whole days each direction. If that's not a problem, why would a coast to coast train be a problem?


----------



## Bob Dylan (Feb 26, 2019)

Because people can be such pigs and some OBS dont do their assigned duties with diligence!( especially the Bathrooms!!!)


----------



## Anthony V (Feb 26, 2019)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> Amtrak has done LAX-ORL (LAX-MIA) before, who remembers that? The Texas Eagle CHI-LAX travels almost three whole days each direction. If that's not a problem, why would a coast to coast train be a problem?


The Sunset Limited had severe on-time performance issues when it was a coast-to-coast train due to its unusually long route. The acquired delays throughout the trip added up over the course of the train's journey, and by the time the train reached the Gulf Coast portion of the trip, it was often around 24 hrs late. This drove ridership along the Gulf Coast down considerably, which is why Amtrak never restored service after it was suspended just before Hurricane Katrina.

The most likely way Gulf Coast service will be restored if it happens would be to extend the CONO to Orlando. This would ultimately be a somewhat shorter route originating in Chicago instead of Los Angeles, resulting in much better on-time performance and higher ridership. In addition, this would create that Chicago-Florida train everyone has been dreaming about since 1979.


----------

