# Food Preparation on Long Distance Trains



## gradstudentrailfan (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm curious about how Amtrak prepares their food on long distance trains. Are these meals cooked from scratch on board, or are they prepared off site and microwaved? I'm particularly interested in the set-up on the Texas Eagle which I ride fairly often. Amtrak's website says that the TE is equipped with a Cross County Cafe with the following description:



> The Cross Country Café offers a unique onboard experience on the City of New Orleans and Texas Eagle routes, featuring regionally inspired cuisine.
> 
> Aboard the Cross Country Café, you'll find a wide variety of delicious regional cuisine including vegetarian options, to satisfy your tastes as the train rolls through the country.
> 
> We've applied enhancements similar to those found on the Empire Builder, Coast Starlight and Capitol Limited to the Cross Country Café to create an unparalleled travel experience - the ambiance has been enriched, the versatility of the car has been increased, and the food service has been raised to a higher level. In addition to the similarity to single-level "tavern" or "bistro" cars in rail history, this bi-level car combines higher technology food and beverage preparation and service with cherry-like veneer surfaces, more comfortable seating and adjustable halogen and LED lighting.


This write-up seems to suggest that you would get better than average food in the CCC, but what I have read elsewhere seems to suggest the opposite. How does food preparation differ in a CCC compared to a typical LD train diner?

Also, an observation: while the website claims that the TE has the CCC, what I have seen in my times riding it doesn't match the pictures of the CCC I have seen online. The meals I have eaten on board seem to have been in a car identical to the regular Superliner diner. Also, the CCC seems to be a combined diner and lounge, but the TE runs both a diner and a lounge car. What's up with this?

In summary, how are meals prepared on long distance trains, is there any variation in meal preparation between routes, and what's up with the Texas Eagle and the CCC?


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## rtabern (Feb 5, 2018)

Amtrak converted 17 traditional dining cars into Cross Country Cafes. The goal was the pull a traditional dining car and Sightseer Lounge off particular routes and combine them into this one car. I believe the plan called for this to happen on the Eagle, Capitol, and City of NO. Maybe eventually expand to other long distance trains in the off season. The original plan even called for Sightseer Lounges to be converted into CCC configurations. There was such an outcry over losing a separate lounge the conversion stopped... But not after Amtrak lost 17 traditional dining cars to CCCs. So they still run the lounge with the CCCs on a few routes like you experienced. The lounge end of the CCC is usually where crews hang out or supplies are kept has been my experience. Oh yeah... The original promise of the CCC was food would be served bumper post to bumper post. That lasted maybe 3 months! I remember catching an early Metra to Homewood and catching the northbound City of NO and actually got a full breakfast into Chicago.

I'll leave the food prep part of the OPs question to someone with more knowledge of that...


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## KmH (Feb 5, 2018)

Most of the food is prepared at a commissary and heated one way or another onboard.

Omelets, grits, steaks, oatmeal, and baked potatoes are cooked onboard, though I'd bet the grits and oatmeal are the instant type that they just add hot water too rather than cook for 5 minutes or so.

I believe the bacon and sausage is precooked part way by the commissary before being finished onboard.


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 5, 2018)

The CCC car has a full diner kitchen on the first floor. So If you get a CCC car with a full diner menu, you will be served the same food, prepared the same way in a traditional dining car.

The differences between a CCC car and a traditional Superliner Dining car are pretty small to the non-railfain. Both have booths which seat 4 throughout most of the car. The CCC cars have the lamps built into the table. The CCC has a partially enclosed food prep area which can double as a Lounge Service counter. The Superliner Diners have a prep area in the middle of the car just out in the open (I prefer the enclosed CCC style).

I'm in the minority but I think the CCC design is very good, as the cars can be used as either a lounge, a diner, or both. For a company that is low on equipment, that can come in quite handy.

As for food prep.. on the full diner menu, eggs, pancackes, omlettes, steak, fish entree, baked potatoes, are cooked fresh on-board while other items are brought on fully or partially cooked and re-heated on board. It should be noted... nothing on the regular diner menu is microwaved.. Amtrak uses convection ovens to reheat food.

I'm not exactly sure on cooking techniques, but there are items like the burgers that appear to be reheated the way you would cook them... i.e. on a grill.


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## cpotisch (Feb 5, 2018)

Two Amtrak trains currently operate with the CCC - the Texas Eagle and the City of New Orleans (CONO). The menu and food on the TE are IDENTICAL to that of a standard Superliner Dining Car. Meanwhile, the CONO serves a limited menu with heat-and-eat meals that are prepared ahead of time.



gradstudentrailfan said:


> Also, an observation: while the website claims that the TE has the CCC, what I have seen in my times riding it doesn't match the pictures of the CCC I have seen online. The meals I have eaten on board seem to have been in a car identical to the regular Superliner diner.


The former may be because Amtrak removed the weird 3-seat booths, and replaced them with relatively standard 2+2 seating. The main differences between the CCCs and the standard diners are:


No tablecloths in the CCC
CCC has the car split into two sections
The enclosed bar area in the CCC
The tables get narrower towards the aisle in the CCC
The two are definitely different, but the differences may not stand out from memory.



gradstudentrailfan said:


> Also, the CCC seems to be a combined diner and lounge, but the TE runs both a diner and a lounge car. What's up with this?


The Cross Country Cafe was conceived of as a diner-lounge combo (in fact, their official designation is 'Diner-Lounge'). The Texas Eagle operated for a very short period with a sole CCC serving as both a lounge and diner (and the CONO also did so for much longer), but the cars were incredibly overcrowded and overworked, so now it's a CCC + regular lounge.



gradstudentrailfan said:


> In summary, how are meals prepared on long distance trains, is there any variation in meal preparation between routes, and what's up with the Texas Eagle and the CCC?


Meal preparation is basically identical on all but a few LD routes. Those few are the Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, and CONO. The three offer a limited menu, heat-and-eat cooking, and less staff. The food on the TE will taste virtually identical to even that of the Empire Builder.


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## gradstudentrailfan (Feb 5, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Meal preparation is basically identical on all but a few LD routes. Those few are the Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, and CONO. The three offer a limited menu, heat-and-eat cooking, and less staff. The food on the TE will taste virtually identical to even that of the Empire Builder.


I've heard in a couple places that the Empire Builder may have at least some small advantages in the level of service. Is that true?


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 5, 2018)

gradstudentrailfan said:


> cpotisch said:
> 
> 
> > Meal preparation is basically identical on all but a few LD routes. Those few are the Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, and CONO. The three offer a limited menu, heat-and-eat cooking, and less staff. The food on the TE will taste virtually identical to even that of the Empire Builder.
> ...


The Empire Builder may still have extra staff to accommodate the busy train, but I think that's it.

The empire builder along with the capitol and coast starlight used to offer a few upgrades like ceramic plates and glass glassware and a few regional entrees like the pasta dish with Beechers cheese (Beechers is a Pike Place cheese shop in Seattle).

In that same time perioid, the empire builder dining car would offer a free wine tasting for sleeping car passengers.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 5, 2018)

KmH said:


> I believe the bacon and sausage is precooked part way by the commissary before being finished onboard.


Bacon and sausage are precooked in a commissary. Bacon isn't the kind of meat you can cook on the sly. Everyone within a car or two would know if fresh bacon was being cooked on board the train. The precooked reheated sausage is boiled in water leaving it bloated and flavorless.



crescent-zephyr said:


> As for food prep.. on the full diner menu, eggs, pancackes, omlettes, steak, fish entree, baked potatoes, are cooked fresh on-board while other items are brought on fully or partially cooked and re-heated on board. It should be noted...


Eggs and baked potatoes are cooked fresh. Steak is cooked frozen. Fish is precooked and simply warmed up. You can confirm which entrees are cooked on board by comparing which items have the FDA undercooked warning. Every single lunch entree uses precooked reheated meats. On my last trip pancakes were only available to children so can't comment on them.



crescent-zephyr said:


> Nothing on the regular diner menu is microwaved. Amtrak uses convection ovens to reheat food. I'm not exactly sure on cooking techniques, but there are items like the burgers that appear to be reheated the way you would cook them... i.e. on a grill.


Once food has been precooked and refrozen it doesn't really matter how you reheat it again as the result is largely the same (IMO). To this day Amtrak's burger remains the most disappointing example I've ever had outside of a middle school cafeteria. If someone knows of a for-profit sit down restaurant that makes worse burgers than Amtrak please let me know.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 5, 2018)

A few minutes ago the cooking hostess on one of my local TV news broadcasts showed how to mix portioned omelet ingredients into a Ziploc baggie, store them in the fridge and cook them in boiling water as needed. She explained it was some French cooking technique many restaurants actually use. The omelet looked really good and I wondered if that was how Amtrak serves theirs.....


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Feb 5, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> To this day Amtrak's burger remains the most disappointing example I've ever had outside of a middle school cafeteria. If someone knows of a for-profit sit down restaurant that makes worse burgers than Amtrak please let me know.


My fondest memories of food on Amtrak LD, was their burger. It was always my back-up choice, even at dinner time. Just to add, my second fondest would be their Railroad French Toast.

Bad burgers? I still remember being at a children's home and it was lunch time. I was standing in line, and the other adults (workers) keep tell me, "go for the salad bar". I figured how bad could the burger possibly be? I got the burger. It was so bad, not only would I not eat it, I would not give I to my dog either (who was with me). So, I know for sure just how bad a "burger" could be.


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## Thirdrail7 (Feb 5, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Bacon and sausage are precooked in a commissary. Bacon isn't the kind of meat you can cook on the sly. Everyone within a car or two would know if fresh bacon was being cooked on board the train. The precooked reheated sausage is boiled in water leaving it bloated and flavorless.


They reheat it by boiling it in water? Eeewwwww!



> Once food has been precooked and refrozen it doesn't really matter how you reheat it again as the result is largely the same (IMO). To this day Amtrak's burger remains the most disappointing example I've ever had outside of a middle school cafeteria. If someone knows of a for-profit sit down restaurant that makes worse burgers than Amtrak please let me know.


I don't know if you have them in your area but Bob's Big Boy and Hardee's makes a burger that is fairly nasty. This is astounding since they have access to a grill.



OlympianHiawatha said:


> A few minutes ago the cooking hostess on one of my local TV news broadcasts showed how to mix portioned omelet ingredients into a Ziploc baggie, store them in the fridge and cook them in boiling water as needed. She explained it was some French cooking technique many restaurants actually use. The omelet looked really good and I wondered if that was how Amtrak serves theirs.....


That technique is called Sous-vide. I believe it is used on some of the Amtrak trains, particularly the Acela.


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## LookingGlassTie (Feb 5, 2018)

Do you think one of us could do a pinned thread that lists the various Amtrak food service cars, the types of food available and methods of food preparation? It might help the newbies (and even us who have been around a while). I do realize however, that the presence of a particular type of FS car in a consist doesn't always determine what will be served (as evidenced by the TE and CONO).

As for me, I have only experienced a Heritage diner and Amfleet I & II cafe/lounge cars. (So far)..............


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 5, 2018)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> My fondest memories of food on Amtrak LD, was their burger. It was always my back-up choice, even at dinner time...Bad burgers? I still remember being at a children's home and it was lunch time...I figured how bad could the burger possibly be? I got the burger. It was so bad, not only would I not eat it, I would not give I to my dog either (who was with me). So, I know for sure just how bad a "burger" could be.



Here's _why_ I think Amtrak's burger lunch is so bad... 

+ It can't be cooked to order - Ask for whatever you want but you'll always get well-done. 

+ It's not even close to fresh - It's frozen then precooked and refrozen and reheated again. 

+ It's always served lukewarm - No matter when or how you order it's never truly hot.

+ It's really dry and spongy - The texture is mealy and it's so dry that it's tough to swallow. 

+ The meat has no juice or flavor - Doesn't taste like beef or any other definable meat.

+ The bread is bland - Couldn't they at least toast their stale bread to bring out some flavor?

+ The side is always unseasoned chips - No flavor, no selection, no option for something better. 

+ The pickle spear is weak - I like pickles but not the limp and mushy kind Amtrak serves.

Okay, now you try.



Thirdrail7 said:


> They reheat it by boiling it in water? Eeewwwww!


Amtrak sausage was fine for many years but more recently it's become so bad that it finally made me switch to bacon, which isn't really my preference, but compared to boiled sausage I'll pick bacon every time. I actually miss the sausage they served years ago. It tasted just like McDonald's patty sausage, which honestly isn't that great tasting or good for you, but it has a nostalgia factor I still enjoyed.



Thirdrail7 said:


> I don't know if you have them in your area but Bob's Big Boy and Hardee's makes a burger that is fairly nasty. This is astounding since they have access to a grill.


I haven't been in a Bob's Big Boy since I was a _little _boy, and we don't have any of those around here, so I can't comment on them. We don't have any Hardee's either, but we _do_ have some Carl's Junior, which I believe is part of the same company. Maybe I should visit one and compare it to the Amtrak burger.


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 5, 2018)

While it is consistent as anything at amtrak (so not at all) I have gotten toasted buns in amtrak diners before and it DOES make a difference. I always order the veggie burger (I'm not a vegetarian, but I rarely order red meat, generally stick to chicken, fish, and vegetarian options). I think the Amtrak veggie burger is pretty good and actually MORE flavorful than some veggie burgers I've ordered in restaurants.

The chips are just chips... if the dining car has them available you can always ask for a side salad and to leave the chips off the plate. May or may not actually work but in theory you could ask.


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## Dakota 400 (Feb 5, 2018)

EB, SEA-CHI, July, 2017: My most recent Amtrak trip.

I was pleased with my meals in the diner. The Steak, the Shrimp entree, the Burgers, French Toast, Omelette, Bacon, Sausage: all were very good. Were they the quality that I also enjoy at local upscale Steakhouses and pay for such quality? No. But, I don't expect such.

"Dinner in the Diner", along with Breakfast and Lunch, is something that I will enjoy as part of my rail journey---even if the on-board Chef lacks a Michelin Star on his/her resume.


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## PVD (Feb 5, 2018)

Many decent burgers in chains have gone downhill because they are cooked to an internal temp high enough to kill e-coli. That makes them well done. They do not wish to face potential bad press and lawsuits.


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## MikeM (Feb 5, 2018)

One thing I saw on my last Texas Eagle trip in the CCC was they used the upstairs service "counter area" with the counter closed to prep deserts and drinks. On normal diners there isn't much space in the center service area so deserts all come from the kitchen. It seemed to expedite service and the diner crew really ran a tight operation. Not what the space was designed for, but kudos for improvisation.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 5, 2018)

Glad to hear this, most crews use that end of the CCC for a Crew Lounge. Sounds like this LSA is on the ball!


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## Triley (Feb 5, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the bacon and sausage is precooked part way by the commissary before being finished onboard.
> ...


Things may have changed. I'm not sure how it was before, but.... Jimmy Dean pork sausage patties are offered along side chicken sausage links, and both are to be reheated on the grill. No pots in the kitchen to reheat items in water. And the bacon? Let's just say...it's a retail brand that comes precooked. I'll leave everyone to figure that one out!

The steak may end up being thawed in the oven before it is cooked, though it shouldn't be, and it certainly shouldn't be cooked from frozen. Also, although the salmon comes frozen, it is NOT precooked. In fact, you may even ask that your salmon be cooked to your preference of wellness.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## Triley (Feb 5, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> While it is consistent as anything at amtrak (so not at all) I have gotten toasted buns in amtrak diners before and it DOES make a difference. I always order the veggie burger (I'm not a vegetarian, but I rarely order red meat, generally stick to chicken, fish, and vegetarian options). I think the Amtrak veggie burger is pretty good and actually MORE flavorful than some veggie burgers I've ordered in restaurants.
> 
> The chips are just chips... if the dining car has them available you can always ask for a side salad and to leave the chips off the plate. May or may not actually work but in theory you could ask.


If you're in the sleepers you're always entitled to a side salad, and should be offered one with your meal no matter what entree you order. If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## Skyline (Feb 5, 2018)

Thirdrail7 said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Bacon and sausage are precooked in a commissary. Bacon isn't the kind of meat you can cook on the sly. Everyone within a car or two would know if fresh bacon was being cooked on board the train. The precooked reheated sausage is boiled in water leaving it bloated and flavorless.
> ...



If Amtrak is adopting Sous-vide, that is a good thing if commissary and crew are properly trained. Entrees prepared the sous-vide way should be more flavorful and taste fresher than food that is frozen and microwaved. Sous-vide is actually a two-step process that saves time and enhances quality. Some four and five star restaurants are adopting sous-vide.

I've tried it at home with mixed results (a home sous-vide unit can now be had for under $100) but I think its best potential is with using commercial units in food service.


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## KmH (Feb 5, 2018)

Triley said:


> If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.


The side salad is $3.50 these days.


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## Triley (Feb 5, 2018)

KmH said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.
> ...


Right right. $3.50. No one ever said I was diner qualified!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 5, 2018)

Triley said:


> Things may have changed. I'm not sure how it was before, but.... Jimmy Dean pork sausage patties are offered along side chicken sausage links, and both are to be reheated on the grill. No pots in the kitchen to reheat items in water.


I've tried both types several times. What sort of pot, pan, skillet, tray, or dish may have been used I cannot say. Mainly because the actual cooking/heating process is completely hidden from view on Superliners. I can only tell you that I know what boiled meat looks and tastes like and that's precisely how Amtrak sausage looks and tastes to me. It's not always like this, sometimes the sausage is dry, but on more trips than not the sausage was flavorless and waterlogged. It also gets annoying to have sausage water coming into contact with other items on my plate. You don't have to believe me but I would have never switched to bacon if the sausage wasn't prepared in such a bland and tasteless manner.



Triley said:


> The steak may end up being thawed in the oven before it is cooked, though it shouldn't be, and it certainly shouldn't be cooked from frozen. Also, although the salmon comes frozen, it is NOT precooked. In fact, you may even ask that your salmon be cooked to your preference of wellness.


If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?


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## Triley (Feb 5, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > Things may have changed. I'm not sure how it was before, but.... Jimmy Dean pork sausage patties are offered along side chicken sausage links, and both are to be reheated on the grill. No pots in the kitchen to reheat items in water.
> ...


I'm not saying I don't believe you. What the issue could be is that maybe the crew left it too long in the steam table. But I assure you, no boiling of anything on that grill top. God..boiled sausage sounds puke inducing.

And huh..good question about the FDA warning. I've triple checked the service guide and although it doesn't say it's raw, it doesn't say it's precooked, which with the other wording leads me to believe it's raw (like saying it can be cooked medium rare, medium, or medium well).

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## PVD (Feb 6, 2018)

The FDA warnings required might not include the salmon because it is not served raw, and they do not serve it in a style that is considered undercooked. Chalk it up "strange but Federal" ?


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 6, 2018)

1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.

2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.

Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.


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## Skyline (Feb 6, 2018)

Green Maned Lion said:


> 1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.
> 
> 2) Amtraks burger is not the worst; bobs big boy is worse, and I have had much worse than that various places.
> 
> Hardees, however, especially their thick burger, is pretty good in my mind. Its not really a burger; its a grilled meatloaf sandwhich, but it is good. I dont like their thin burger (which is a burger) but my wife says it reminds her of what Burger King used to be (positive description). It certainly isnt worse than Amtraks.


Does anyone know...

1) If Amtrak has adopted Sous Vide for certain entrees, I wonder if the meats or other items are seasoned and vacuum sealed by the purveyor or commissary--or are they done on board? In my experience, that is a procedure that could affect quality and consistency, therefore should already be done before its brought on board.

2) What kind of Sous Vide training does Amtrak provide for its DC staff?

3) Are entrees started in the water bath from frozen, fresh, or from defrosted?

4) Are entrees like steaks, seafood, poultry, pork finished "to order" on the grill after the Sous Vide process? Please, please...not served directly from the vacuum-sealed pouch right out of the water, or microwaved!

Properly done, I think Sous Vide is a huge step forward for commercial food service, and could be for Amtrak. Done incorrectly, it could actually be a negative.


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## zepherdude (Feb 6, 2018)

KmH said:


> Triley said:
> 
> 
> > If you're in coach you're more than welcome to have a side salad instead, but it will cost $3.
> ...


Must be a HUGE salad!


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## cpotisch (Feb 6, 2018)

Skyline said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > 1) Amtrak has been using Sous Vide since simplified dining began, or shortly thereafter.
> ...


The main advantage of Sous Vide is that you can set an incredibly precise cooking temperature. Certain chemical reactions and processes in the food occur at very specific temperatures, so the food can be incredible juicy/tender/flavorful. Giving it a thorough cook on the grill would effectively defeat the purpose of Sous Vide. A quick sear would be fine, but the purpose of Sous Vide is to cook evenly at very precise temperatures.


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 6, 2018)

zepherdude said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Triley said:
> ...


Most Side Salads go for $4-$5 on restaurant menus. They vary in quality but I've seen some in that price range that were no better than Amtrak's basic side salad. And of course I've seen some in that range that are much better in quality.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Feb 6, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?


Raw fish is call sushi or ceviche.

Some types of Fish can be eaten raw so no FDA warning needed.


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## Skyline (Feb 6, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Skyline said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


I agree. A relatively brief "finishing it on the grill" is what you want to do for most entrees. To give it a better flavor and appearance. A steak, for example, is likely to be rare or medium rare with minimal grilling post Sous Vide. But some folks don't want their steaks to moo and their's will need to be grilled longer. It's a trade-off.

Also, I find chicken a little off-putting right after Sous Vide. It may need more grilling, broiling, or baking than beef -- for aesthetic reasons, and possibly health reasons. But done properly, Sous Vide can make chicken better.


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## crescent-zephyr (Feb 6, 2018)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?
> ...


It's common to see the FDA warning on menus for fish. My guess is that the previous fish dish was pre-cooked (the way DA described), and the warning was missed on the updated menu.
Also... Raw fish is not called sushi. Raw fish is a common ingredient in sushi, but they are 2 very different things. I love sushi, but do not care for raw fish.


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## PVD (Feb 6, 2018)

http://www.bulletprooffoodnyc.com/bulletlessblog/2015/10/28/menus-need-warnings-by-january-1-2016

a decent explanation from an industry source


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## Palmetto (Feb 6, 2018)

GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 6, 2018)

Triley said:


> What the issue could be is that maybe the crew left it too long in the steam table. But I assure you, no boiling of anything on that grill top. God..boiled sausage sounds puke inducing.


Yeah it could definitely be caused by a steam warmer. I don't normally eat breakfast at oh dark thirty so that makes sense. Flavor is really the only thing sausage has going for it, so when you replace that flavor with water/steam it is kind of disgusting.



Triley said:


> I've triple checked the service guide and although it doesn't say it's raw, it doesn't say it's precooked, which with the other wording leads me to believe it's raw.


It could be an oversight or it could be smoked or wet cured in some other way.



Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > If the salmon is sourced raw then why is it not included in the FDA thorough cooking warnings list?
> ...


The FDA warning doesn't prevent anyone from serving or consuming fish raw, it simply warns you that there may be consequences if it wasn't raised and prepared properly.



crescent-zephyr said:


> Also... Raw fish is not called sushi. Raw fish is a common ingredient in sushi, but they are 2 very different things. I love sushi, but do not care for raw fish.


Sushi can be all sorts of things. It's a vague term that can include everything from raw fish and rice to fried seafood and even veggie rolls. Raw fish by itself is called_ sashimi._


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## cpotisch (Feb 6, 2018)

Technically speaking (not commonly speaking), ‘sushi’ actually just refers to that type of rice. ‘Sushi rice’ a.k.a shari is a type of vinegared white rice. So sushi can technically include just about anything, so long as it has that rice.

Now, in the common/modern sense of the word, sushi refers to the combination of sushi rice + seaweed + seafood.

Sashimi always refers to raw fish in and of itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## AcrossTheOcean (Feb 7, 2018)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> A few minutes ago the cooking hostess on one of my local TV news broadcasts showed how to mix portioned omelet ingredients into a Ziploc baggie, store them in the fridge and cook them in boiling water as needed. She explained it was some French cooking technique many restaurants actually use. The omelet looked really good and I wondered if that was how Amtrak serves theirs.....


It is possible. When I worked food service, we bought eggs for scrambling pre-cracked in bags and boiled them in the bag. Later the establishment switched to raw eggs and had someone crack them all. There wasn't much difference in the quality of the eggs. They aren't going to be "Grade A" eggs like you get in the supermarket in either case.


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## KmH (Feb 7, 2018)

I don't know what 'grade' eggs Amtrak uses but their Food Facts pages say they use pasteurized whole shell eggs produced by cage-free chickens.

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-01.pdf


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## Triley (Feb 7, 2018)

KmH said:


> I don't know what 'grade' eggs Amtrak uses but their Food Facts pages say they use pasteurized whole shell eggs eggs produced by cage-free chickens.
> 
> http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-01.pdf


Do a little research and your should find out the brand! It's basically the most popular brand for food service use.
Also, AA grade.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## tricia (Feb 7, 2018)

I'm something of an egg snob. (Raise my own, to sell at farm market, using fancy no-GMO, no-soy feed.) And to my taste, Amtrak eggs aren't as good as my own, but aren't bad.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 7, 2018)

Palmetto said:


> GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!


YAY! You cannot argue with Whataburger especially at 4 in the morning!


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## jmx153 (Feb 7, 2018)

There is a program on PBS Television called "America's Heartland" and they did a story about food preparation on Amtrak:

https://youtu.be/r9GEKalLOTc

This was *originally aired in 2009*, so Amtrak's food prep has probably changed from what is shown in this program. It does include some comments by Amtrak's executive chef , the director of food & beverage, a little bit of footage from a meal service on a PPC, some food prep in a Superliner kitchen, and stocking the train before a trip at the Los Angeles commissary. Short, but overall a nice little bit of behind the scenes footage.

For those interested: The episode is from season 5 #14 and other stories in that episode showed food prep for airlines and cruise ships for a little comparison.


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## StriderGDM (Feb 7, 2018)

tricia said:


> I'm something of an egg snob. (Raise my own, to sell at farm market, using fancy no-GMO, no-soy feed.) And to my taste, Amtrak eggs aren't as good as my own, but aren't bad.


Fresh eggs are amazing.

I've started to work on my fried eggs and omelettes and finding how poorly I've cooked them in the past!


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 7, 2018)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > GML, you'll have to come down to the Lone Star State and join us Texas who swear by Whataburger!
> ...


We might need to pump the breaks a bit on the Whataburger hype train. From what I can tell fans mainly praise the food because it's open all night and they were too tired/drunk/stoned to realize they were binging on burnt stringy meat, flavorless processed cheese, and nutrition free iceberg cellulose. The chicken sandwich is okay, some of the specialty sandwiches are alright, and the fries are good when served fresh, but in all honesty most of what Whataburger serves doesn't come close to living up the level of hype it gets.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 8, 2018)

I often agree with DAs points in his posts, but he's totally wrong about the National Burger of Texas, Whataburger!

The current Mushroom and Swiss Burger special is outstanding as is the Patty Melt!( I haven't been drunk or stoned in years!)

Next thing you know someone will be knocking Dairy Queen, the Clubhouse/Hangout spot for Rural Folks all over!


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 8, 2018)

Bob Dylan said:


> I often agree with DAs points in his posts, but he's totally wrong about the National Burger of Texas, Whataburger! The current Mushroom and Swiss Burger special is outstanding as is the Patty Melt!( I haven't been drunk or stoned in years!)


Outstanding how? Compared to what?






I happen to enjoy Chester's burgers myself, and here are some specific reasons why...

+The meat is fresh, high quality, and cooked to order.

+The buns are fresh, tasty, and perfectly toasted.

+Nothing is frozen, precooked, or warmed before ordered.

+They use full sized tomato slices (no heels only burgers).

+Toppings are applied correctly 99% of the time.

+The ranch sauce is freshly made and handed out freely.

+A fresh medium-cooked double cheeseburger from Chester's is within fifty cents of a generic Whatameal.

Whataburger fans always rave about the "special" sandwiches, probably because those are the only items that come straight from the grill. Everything else risks being served stale and lukewarm. The main issue I have with their specialty sandwiches is that they overcook the meat and drench their onions (Patty Melt), peppers (Monterrey & Green Chili), and mushrooms (Swiss) in cooking oil. This floods the wrapper and bag with grease and clogs your arteries with flavorless fat. If we're going to drench my sandwich in extra fat can we at least pick something with a bit of flavor?



Bob Dylan said:


> Next thing you know someone will be knocking Dairy Queen, the Clubhouse/Hangout spot for Rural Folks all over!


Dairy Queen indoctrinated me when I was too young to know any better and now it has an aura of nostalgia that is hard to cut through objectively.


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## Maverickstation (Feb 9, 2018)

Back to Food Prep on Amtrak, the Food Fact site, answers many of the questions,inclusing what is made off-site via sous-vide:

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-33.pdf

As for the bacon, yes,it is the pre-cookedtype just like you can but at the grocery store:

http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-13.pdf

Ken


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## KmH (Feb 9, 2018)

Sous-vide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 2, 2018)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Bob Dylan said:
> 
> 
> > I often agree with DAs points in his posts, but he's totally wrong about the National Burger of Texas, Whataburger! The current Mushroom and Swiss Burger special is outstanding as is the Patty Melt!( I haven't been drunk or stoned in years!)
> ...


It took a while but I did eventually manage to find the time and motivation to try the Mushroom Swiss specialty burger and here are my findings. The flavor profile is much stronger than typical Whatachuck. It's not a bad flavor, in fact it's a pretty tasty mix of meat, mushroom, and cheese, but it's also lacking a natural beef flavor and has a slightly unusual and vaguely chemical aftertaste. That left me wondering where the "au jus" sauce came from and and what might be in it. The more I ate the more the more the aftertaste stuck out in my mind. Overall it's not a bad sandwich, and if you're pressed for time on a workday lunch break it's a decent choice, but it's probably among the least healthy burgers out there. It's also really messy and would be unsuitable for eating on the go.


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## me_little_me (Mar 2, 2018)

Maverickstation said:


> Back to Food Prep on Amtrak, the Food Fact site, answers many of the questions,inclusing what is made off-site via sous-vide:
> 
> http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com/restimg2/force/template/1/Amtrak__Food_Facts/w459/h337/AMFF-FALL-2017-33.pdf
> 
> ...


"Chicken is manufactured in a facility that process..". Gollly! I thought chicken meat came from real chickens. It is manufactured? Out of melamine? Plastic?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 3, 2018)

me_little_me said:


> Maverickstation said:
> 
> 
> > Back to Food Prep on Amtrak, the Food Fact site, answers many of the questions,inclusing what is made off-site via sous-vide:
> ...


Composite chicken made up up leftover scraps and components



Ever seen the infamous all-in-one turkey loaf available right next to the TV dinners in your favorite grocer's freezer section.


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## Walt (Mar 3, 2018)

me_little_me said:


> "Chicken is manufactured in a facility that process..". Gollly! I thought chicken meat came from real chickens. It is manufactured? Out of melamine? Plastic?


Maybe the writer didn't like using forms of the word "process" twice in the same sentence?

Though, Trump could have unregulated the food industry, like he did the furniture industry, back while the news sources were all focused on the government shutdown. Its now legal to call plastic veneered particle board "solid mahogany".


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## WindyCityTexan (Mar 5, 2018)

Triley said:


> Devil said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...


Yes, I asked for my salmon to be medium rare and got it. 
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts." -Mark Twain


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## IndyLions (Mar 6, 2018)

I am currently riding the Eagle for the first time on a last minute Business Trip. I had a truly excellent meal last night in the CCC. I have to agree with those that like its design. I guess the only downside is the reduced capacity - but it certainly didn’t affect food quality. Everything was prepared perfectly.

I guess my expectations were that since the equipment was the same as the CONO, the food would be of a lower quality based on some of the CONO trip reports I’ve read. But then again, I’ve had some nice meals recently on the Cardinal and LSL without diners, when a talented crew made the best of the limited equipment at their disposal.

Sent from my iPad using Amtrak Forum


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## IndyLions (Mar 6, 2018)

...and on the LSL I recently had my worst Amtrak meal ever (even worse than any airline meal I ever had back in the day ). It was the Breakfast bowl, a questionable recipe, prepared with utter indifference and served by a server who was mailing it in big time. He was too busy brainstorming with his colleague about how they could “keep the crew together” in the next bidding or posting or however those assignments work.

If there was ever a crew that needed to be broken up it was that one...

Sent from my iPad using Amtrak Forum


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## cpotisch (Mar 7, 2018)

IndyLions said:


> ...and on the LSL I recently had my worst Amtrak meal ever (even worse than any airline meal I ever had back in the day ). It was the Breakfast bowl, a questionable recipe, prepared with utter indifference and served by a server who was mailing it in big time. He was too busy brainstorming with his colleague about how they could “keep the crew together” in the next bidding or posting or however those assignments work.
> 
> If there was ever a crew that needed to be broken up it was that one...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Amtrak Forum


I hate the diner-lite on the LSL (as other members know). When I took #48 two weeks ago, the staff were rude, the food was poor, and the selection was limited. It somewhat ruined my ride.



IndyLions said:


> I am currently riding the Eagle for the first time on a last minute Business Trip. I had a truly excellent meal last night in the CCC. I have to agree with those that like its design. I guess the only downside is the reduced capacity - but it certainly didn’t affect food quality. Everything was prepared perfectly.
> 
> I guess my expectations were that since the equipment was the same as the CONO, the food would be of a lower quality based on some of the CONO trip reports I’ve read. But then again, I’ve had some nice meals recently on the Cardinal and LSL without diners, when a talented crew made the best of the limited equipment at their disposal.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Amtrak Forum


The other main CCC flaw is the lack of tablecloths. Because the tables are weirdly shaped, and they have those weird metal frames on them, they literally can't put tablecloths in. The food in the CONO is not limited by the equipment, but by the staffing arrangement. Only ONE person works the entire CCC on that train, so it's a limited heat-and-eat menu.


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## PVD (Mar 7, 2018)

Same equipment, different levels of service based on staffing. We know that (or could if we wanted to) going in. What we don't know in advance is whether or not we will have a good or bad crew (or crew member), and that is a problem we see over and over again. Each of us has recently ridden the LSL, and had polar opposite experiences with the quality of service. Same train, same equipment, same menu limitations.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 7, 2018)

Tablecloths are not always present in fine dining these days. I just had a $42 dinner (no drinks) at a fancy "chef" restaurant and there were no table cloths. I think the CCC is a nice design. But I want to see it used with the full menu, not the sad city of NO menu.


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## Lonestar648 (Mar 8, 2018)

I have had many good meals in the TE CCC. Like many restaurants, the talents of the cooking staff using the same ingredients and procedures, will produce varied quality of meals and/or how they are presented. On my most recent loop trip, we sat in the diners for 20 meals. The same menu item was presented differently on the plate with each crew. It was obvious that some crew were talented and enjoyed the kitchen. No meal was bad, some just better than others.


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## cpotisch (Mar 8, 2018)

Most of my meals in the TE CCC a couple weeks ago were GREAT. The sweet potato gnocchi, butternut squash risotto, black bean and corn veggie burger, and pancakes were all as good as I'd expect in a nice restaurant. What's interesting is when I was in the Sunset Ltd the day before, which has the same menu, some of the same dishes were prepared/presented very differently. One example would be that the gnocchi and sauce on the TE was mixed in with the greens, whereas on the SL the greens were on the side. There were various other differences as well, and that leads me to believe that though the dishes are pre-prepared and frozen, the diner staff have a fair bit of flexibility in how to actually cook and present it.


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## willem (Mar 8, 2018)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Tablecloths are not always present in fine dining these days. I just had a $42 dinner (no drinks) at a fancy "chef" restaurant and there were no table cloths. I think the CCC is a nice design. But I want to see it used with the full menu, not the sad city of NO menu.


Ditto, all except the dinner was a bit cheaper and without a named chef.

Much more important than the tablecloth is the napkin. At least on Amtrak, the cloth napkin is a respectable size, while the paper napkins are for show only. Also more important than a tablecloth is having metal rather than plastic silverware. All my opinion, of course.


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