# Expected state of Amtrak for the summer and fall travel season (2022)



## Eric in East County (Mar 30, 2022)

If I’ve learned anything from visiting this forum over the last few years, it is that many AU members, particularly those who post regularly and frequently, are very knowledgeable about AMTRAK’s current operational capabilities, and can be counted upon to submit comments that will be both insightful and reliable.

With Memorial Day and the start of the summer vacation season a little over 60 days away, will AMTRAK be able to resolve the many problems that have been plaguing it (and which have been discussed at length in other threads) and be ready to handle the increased demands placed upon it by those who want to travel by train next summer?


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 30, 2022)

Not likely.


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## Sidney (Mar 30, 2022)

We have a Zephyr trip planned on July 10 from Chicago to Sacramento. That date falls on a Sunday,one of two days they are not currently running. I am not optomistic that daily service will return. When I get the e mail that my train is canceled,I really hope they can accomodate me a day earlier and the sleepers aren't sold out. Normally I travel alone and I wouldn't mind another train,but my wife is traveling with me and I want her to experience the Zephyr.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Mar 30, 2022)

I’m much less adventurous than many on this forum.

So for now, I’m only traveling to where I have more than one choice of train and can easily get a different one home if my original one is cancelled. 

For me, that means staying on the east coast between Boston and northern Virginia. Or possibly going wild and traveling all the way to Chicago, knowing there is more than one LD train back. (At worst, I’d have to stay longer in a city I love.)

But as of now, I think cross-country more than a day’s journey away from home is too iffy, at least for my comfort level.


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## lordsigma (Mar 30, 2022)

I attended the RPA meeting on Monday where the Amtrak Long Distance VP Chestler spoke to the group. He implied that some of the remaining reduced services should return to daily for the summer schedule but cannot guarantee it will be all services nor has it been ascertained which services those will be. Take it for what it's worth.


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## jis (Mar 30, 2022)

He said we will know the summer situation by around mid April.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 30, 2022)

Sidney said:


> We have a Zephyr trip planned for July 10 from Chicago to Sacramento. That date falls on a Sunday, one of two days they are not currently running. I am not optimistic that daily service will return. When I get the email that my train is canceled, I really hope they can accommodate me a day earlier and the sleepers aren't sold out. Normally I travel alone, and I wouldn't mind another train, but my wife is traveling with me, and I want her to experience the Zephyr.




I strongly advise being proactive and rebooking on one of the days it is running. Last summer, I was booked in a non-existent sleeper (car 630). I ignored rumblings on Facebook that this car line number did not exist. Two days before my trip from EMY to Chicago, I got a call from Amtrak telling me I had been rebooked for a trip two days later. My GF had enough of Amtrak and decided to fly home early. I was determined to ride the CZ, and I did. But my decision to stay caused problems between us that were entire of my own making. I wished I had flown home with her. 

Until trains are operating daily and have gotten rid of flex dining, I do not consider Amtrak to have their act together.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Mar 30, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> Until trains are operating daily and have gotten rid of flex dining, I do not consider Amtrak to have their act together.



Very well put. If and when Amtrak reaches those two benchmarks, I will feel much better about taking the train a bit farther.


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## Amtrakfflyer (Mar 30, 2022)

At prices people can afford as well.


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## MARC Rider (Mar 30, 2022)

Note the following notice from Amtrak:
Amtrak Advisory | Northeast Corridor Spring Schedule Changes
*"Northeast Corridor Spring Schedule Changes*
Effective March 28, 2022
Due to track and infrastructure improvements being performed along the Northeast Corridor, schedule changes will affect Acela and Northeast Regional trains beginning March 28, as outlined below. The schedules listed on Amtrak.com have been updated to reflect this change.

*Washington, DC, New York and Boston*

Scheduled departure and arrival times of Acela and Northeast Regional trains may change by 3 to 10 minutes in both directions between Boston, New York and Washington, DC.
Acela *Train 2152* will replace 2150, operating approximately one hour later.
All Acela trains will depart Washington, DC, 10 minutes before the hour."

For our summer vacation, we're planning on taking the Acela to Boston, then renting a car for the rest of the trip. 

Also, it looks like the morning NEC northbound lineup might have a few more trains, despite the removal of Acela 2150:

6:20 AM (Acela)
7:06 AM (Northeast Regional)
7:24 AM (Acela)
7:48 AM (Northeast Regional)
8:40 AM (Vermonter)
9:24 AM (Acela)
9:35 AM (Northeast Regional)
10:53 AM (Northeast Regional)
11:54 AM (Northeast Regional)
12:20 PM (Acela)


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## Sidney (Mar 30, 2022)

Steve4031 said:


> I strongly advise being proactive and rebooking on one of the days it is running. Last summer, I was booked in a non-existent sleeper (car 630). I ignored rumblings on Facebook that this car line number did not exist. Two days before my trip from EMY to Chicago, I got a call from Amtrak telling me I had been rebooked for a trip two days later. My GF had enough of Amtrak and decided to fly home early. I was determined to ride the CZ, and I did. But my decision to stay caused problems between us that were entire of my own making. I wished I had flown home with her.
> 
> Until trains are operating daily and have gotten rid of flex dining, I do not consider Amtrak to have their act together.


I called Amtrak and explained my situation. The agent assured me the Zephyr would be running daily by late May. I did ask if I could change my date. Unfortunately,prices are now double what I paid. No way I will do that. I'm relying on an AGR's agents word. If It is still running five days and I get a cancelation notice hopefully I can rebook at the same price.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 30, 2022)

Sidney said:


> I called Amtrak and explained my situation. The agent assured me the Zephyr would be running daily by late May. I did ask if I could change my date. Unfortunately,prices are now double what I paid. No way I will do that. I'm relying on an AGR's agents word. If It is still running five days and I get a cancelation notice hopefully I can rebook at the same price.



I wish you the best of luck.


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## Eric in East County (Mar 30, 2022)

Here is a “what if” question based on a scenario which is not too far fetched given the way AMTRAK has been operating recently.

A long-distance train with two sleepers is scheduled to depart from its station of origin. The bedrooms in both sleepers are sold out as are the roomettes. As the train is ready to depart the servicing yard for the boarding platform, a problem is discovered with one of the sleepers which requires it to be removed from the consist. Assuming that no other sleeper is available for a last-minute switch, those passengers in the sleeper that was taken out of service will be without accommodations unless seats can be found for them in coach. *In determining which passengers will get the bedrooms and roomettes in the remaining sleeper, does AMTRAK take into consideration the date when a sleeping car reservation was made?* (Logic suggests that a person who made their reservation 6 months earlier would be given precedence over a person who made their reservation a month earlier.)

Again, this is a “what if” question and is *not* based on any incident that I am aware of.


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## daybeers (Mar 30, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Note the following notice from Amtrak:
> Amtrak Advisory | Northeast Corridor Spring Schedule Changes
> *"Northeast Corridor Spring Schedule Changes*
> Effective March 28, 2022
> ...


The NEC North schedule is still reduced; sometimes there are two hour gaps.


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## west point (Mar 30, 2022)

The cynic I am believe if one sleeper cancelled that the lowest paying passenger fares will get bumped to coach? "IF" Amtrak had a spare coach, would it set aside that coach for just the displaced passenger as a faux sleeper? Highly doubt it.


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## Eric in East County (Mar 30, 2022)

Last July, we were returning on the westbound *SWC #4* from Chicago to LA. In Las Vegas, the Sightseer/Café car had to be removed from the consist due to problems with a stabilizer bar. It could just as easily have been our sleeping car. The coaches were already full. Had it been our sleeper that was cut out, what would AMTRAK have done with those of us who were in that sleeper? (We’d like to think that we would have been put up for the night in the *Castaneda Hotel* and that an extra sleeper would have been added to the next day’s #4 just for us.)


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## Pal2Pluto (Mar 31, 2022)

Good morning....... I am hesitantly entering the fray here...and a bit concerned now about our summer trip. Other than a few accidents that changed consists for a bit (EB) and some seemingly frequently late trains, I wasn't too concerned until now. I had not heard of them selling tickets on trains that didn't run on particular days before......

that being said: We have a trip booked from HAR>DEN (24hrs in DEN) DEN>SEA (2 days in Seattle) SEA>CHI (via EB)>HAR. Was I crazy to think this trip is possible?


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## MARC Rider (Mar 31, 2022)

west point said:


> The cynic I am believe if one sleeper cancelled that the lowest paying passenger fares will get bumped to coach? "IF" Amtrak had a spare coach, would it set aside that coach for just the displaced passenger as a faux sleeper? Highly doubt it.


This was maybe 10 years ago; I was booked on a sleeper on the Meteor from Orlando north. While we were waiting at the station, we were informed that one of the sleepers was bad-ordered, and that the passengers who had been booked in that sleeper were downgraded to coach. Fortunately, it wasn't my sleeper, but I talked at dinner with one of the people who had been downgraded. Apparently they got refunds (don't remember whether it was the whole fare or just the accommodation charge), plus they got all their meals for free. In relation to this discussion, it seems that they chose the people to be downgraded strictly on the basis of whether they were booked into the bad-ordered sleeping car.


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## Joe from PA (Mar 31, 2022)

Although we will be using Amtrak for NEC travel, they have lost us to the airlines for overnight travel. Last week we arrived in Ft. Lauderdale almost 2 hours late. 5 totally full sleepers with one dinning car was a madhouse. Because train #97 was no longer running, we had to spend 4 extra hours going round-trip to Tampa and a different route in SC. Prior to our trip we booked another trip on #97 and #98 Ft. Lauderdale-Orlando for this weekend. We got a email saying oops, we decided not to run 97 and 98, so you are on 91 and 92 (Tampa again), turning your 4-hour trip into 6+ hours. I canceled the tickets, and we will make the 3-hour drive. We have had it!


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## jiml (Mar 31, 2022)

I'm holding tickets for late summer travel in California, but since they're all regional services I'm fairly optimistic about both the availability and service levels barring a sixth wave of you-know-what.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 31, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> This was maybe 10 years ago; I was booked on a sleeper on the Meteor from Orlando north. While we were waiting at the station, we were informed that one of the sleepers was bad-ordered, and that the passengers who had been booked in that sleeper were downgraded to coach. Fortunately, it wasn't my sleeper, but I talked at dinner with one of the people who had been downgraded. Apparently they got refunds (don't remember whether it was the whole fare or just the accommodation charge), plus they got all their meals for free. In relation to this discussion, it seems that they chose the people to be downgraded strictly on the basis of whether they were booked into the bad-ordered sleeping car.


I have experienced the same thing several times through my 50+ years of riding Amtrak.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 31, 2022)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Not likely.


I'd say the return of daily operation is at least plausible, but to say Amtrak will "have its act together" implies a bit more than that.



Steve4031 said:


> My GF had enough of Amtrak and decided to fly home early. I was determined to ride the CZ, and I did. But my decision to stay caused problems between us that were entire of my own making. I wished I had flown home with her.


It sounds like your Amtrak riding days are mostly behind you.



west point said:


> The cynic I am believe if one sleeper cancelled that the lowest paying passenger fares will get bumped to coach? "IF" Amtrak had a spare coach, would it set aside that coach for just the displaced passenger as a faux sleeper? Highly doubt it.


To be fair to Amtrak I have never heard of them using fare buckets to determine who is denied a compartment when a sleeper is bad ordered.


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## Steve4031 (Mar 31, 2022)

I will continue to ride Amtrak. But not with my GF. I think after last summer they have permanently lost her business. When we travel together it will be driving or flying. Not Amtrak. I will ride Amtrak for my own enjoyment. 

From personal experience, Amtrak does not take AGR status or bucket paid status into account when service disruptions occur. Last winter, when Donner pass was closed, I was out of luck. There were no sleepers available for several days. And some of this was because people had booked sleepers from EMY to Reno. IMHO these people could have been bumped to coach and passengers traveling longer distances could have been accommodated. I don't think Amtrak has the technology or enough employees to do this.


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## TC_NYC (Mar 31, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> Prior to our trip we booked another trip on #97 and #98 Ft. Lauderdale-Orlando for this weekend. We got a email saying oops, we decided not to run 97 and 98, so you are on 91 and 92 (Tampa again), turning your 4-hour trip into 6+ hours. I canceled the tickets, and we will make the 3-hour drive. We have had it!


I understand your frustration, what I would do to avoid the bootleg to/from Tampa is simply book a ticket to Lakeland or Winter Haven, depending on where in the Orlando area you're going to. Fort Lauderdale to Winter Haven would only be a 3' 18" ride on the train.


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## joelkfla (Mar 31, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> To be fair to Amtrak I have never heard of them using fare buckets to determine who is denied a compartment when a sleeper is bad ordered.


In normal times, does Amtrak keep a road-ready sleeper in reserve at LD terminals? I would include MIA, NYP, WAS, CHI, NOL, LAX, EMY, & either PDX or SEA.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 31, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> In normal times, does Amtrak keep a road-ready sleeper in reserve at LD terminals? I would include MIA, NYP, WAS, CHI, NOL, LAX, EMY, & either PDX or SEA.


They have in the past. The equipment available changes with each wreck. At times they even add a trainset to rotation to cover for heavy chronic delays on a route.


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## John Bredin (Mar 31, 2022)

Pal2Pluto said:


> I wasn't too concerned until now. I had not heard of them selling tickets on trains that didn't run on particular days before......


  If Amtrak wasn't selling tickets for days outside the present five-day operation, wouldn't that make people nervous that daily service wasn't going to return?!


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## lordsigma (Mar 31, 2022)

Pal2Pluto said:


> Good morning....... I am hesitantly entering the fray here...and a bit concerned now about our summer trip. Other than a few accidents that changed consists for a bit (EB) and some seemingly frequently late trains, I wasn't too concerned until now. I had not heard of them selling tickets on trains that didn't run on particular days before......
> 
> that being said: We have a trip booked from HAR>DEN (24hrs in DEN) DEN>SEA (2 days in Seattle) SEA>CHI (via EB)>HAR. Was I crazy to think this trip is possible?


It's certainly possible - which dates of the week are your trains booked for?


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## MikefromCrete (Mar 31, 2022)

The problems won't be solved until Amtrak gets an entirely new board and Gardiner is booted from his job. I believe the appointments of all board members have expired. I would hope President Biden will soon appoint new members for the board, but there are a lot of other pressing matters for the president right now.


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## west point (Mar 31, 2022)

west point said:


> The cynic I am believe if one sleeper cancelled that the lowest paying passenger fares will get bumped to coach? "IF" Amtrak had a spare coach, would it set aside that coach for just the displaced passenger as a faux sleeper? Highly doubt it.



To clarify if other sleeper(S) had openings then the highest bucket fares would get those vacancies. Maybe to hide the deed the high bucket persons would get message changing sleeper number ?


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## lordsigma (Mar 31, 2022)

MikefromCrete said:


> The problems won't be solved until Amtrak gets an entirely new board and Gardiner is booted from his job. I believe the appointments of all board members have expired. I would hope President Biden will soon appoint new members for the board, but there are a lot of other pressing matters for the president right now.


The new board will get seated - but Gardner isn't going anywhere. And even if he did - you're likely to get someone with a similar mindset whoever comes in next - IE the NEC is what it's all about which from a business perspective is an understandable view for the Amtrak CEO to have. As much as many would like to wish otherwise - a Graham Claytor like CEO who's going to come in and make long distance into what it was in the old days simply doesn't exist. It's a thankless executive job with a lot of responsibility which likely doesn't pay anything close to what the airlines and other private sector employers pay their chief executives. This is why we got 3 retired short timer CEOs in a row doing it as a "service." This is just not a sought after job as they can't provide the perks that the private sector can.

At least Gardner could provide some longevity as being an insider he is likely to stay for a long time rather than a revolving door of 1 and a half year CEOs. Businessmen today are influenced heavily by the school of today's Wall Street which is all about cutting your way to success making a return with little care about how you do so long as you're making money. You're going to be hard pressed to find any executive type in 2022 who is not at least partially influenced by that doctrine because Wall Street controls most of corporate America. The answer is to get the new board in there and make clear what Amtrak's mission is and direct the management appropriately. I think at the end of the day Gardner will do as directed.


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## Willbridge (Apr 1, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> In normal times, does Amtrak keep a road-ready sleeper in reserve at LD terminals? I would include MIA, NYP, WAS, CHI, NOL, LAX, EMY, & either PDX or SEA.


I have trouble recalling normal times. However, I don't think that PDX has ever had a spare sleeper. With notice, a sleeper can be deadheaded from SEA to cover Train 28.


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## neroden (Apr 1, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> The new board will get seated - but Gardner isn't going anywhere.



I'm going to disagree with you. Gardner's very likely to get fired. I'm not sure how long it's going to take, but he's proven his incompetence repeatedly. So far he's hidden it by always being a underling, so someone else was in the hot seat. Now he's risen too high, he can't hide, and his incompetent mistakes will land on his desk. There's enough demand for a functioning national rail network that his incompetence won't be tolerated forever.

Of course, Mr. Gardner is welcome to become competent at any time, and I will not call for his removal if he starts acting competent. So far he has shown that he simply doesn't understand railroads at all. 

It's not about "NEC" or "National Network", it's about Gardner being completely incompetent to run a railroad. The man didn't even understand that it's necessary to publish *timetables*. Any replacement with a hour of experience on a railroad would know better.


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## neroden (Apr 1, 2022)

To answer the question of the original poster: daily service is likely by summer, but "having their act together" by summer? No chance.


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## JP1822 (Apr 1, 2022)

Amtrak does NOT keep enough spare equipment around at LD terminals. 

Largely just:

- Miami (Hialeah) - base for the Viewliners
- New York Penn
- Chicago - base for the Superliners
- LA

Limited at Seattle and Washington DC now. Nothing at PDX ever. And typically nothing at EMY or NOL.


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 1, 2022)

Was reading the results of an audit which basically said Amtrak has so many staffing shortages right now, they don't even have enough people to do the hiring of enough people to get its act together any time soon. (Did not save the link, it was 3 am insomnia reading, but I'm sure people in the know, will know where to find the audit story). I'm just so floored by this. Employees were laid off during the worst of Covid, weren't they? Do they not try to call experienced people back to fill positions? 
In the meantime, Amtrak is selling out its sleeping car inventory, and the fares I see are mostly quite steep. Effect is to force us back to flying or stay home, I guess.


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## lordsigma (Apr 2, 2022)

Michigan Mom said:


> Was reading the results of an audit which basically said Amtrak has so many staffing shortages right now, they don't even have enough people to do the hiring of enough people to get its act together any time soon. (Did not save the link, it was 3 am insomnia reading, but I'm sure people in the know, will know where to find the audit story).


They did recall everyone but some inevitably moved on to new jobs and chose to stick with their new career and not return. They did of course get some back as they were able to resume daily service at least for a while. It isn’t just the furloughs though it was also retirement incentives - and you’re never getting those people back. They seem to be doing what they should be - offering incentives for employees near retirement to stay on and even offering sign on and relocation bonuses in the skilled crafts which is where the largest shortage is. Bringing on new people is slow - the training process for many of the jobs takes time and they are seeing a fairly high level of attrition with people washing out in the on boarding process. Legal marijuana in many states has also created a challenge as it’s still completely prohibited in many federally regulated jobs and grounds for immediate dismissal. Mandatory drug tests are required in T&E, OBS, track department, train dispatchers, and reportedly now mechanical as well. Some are washing out after initially passing the urinalysis but then failing the hair test.


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## daybeers (Apr 2, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> reportedly now mechanical as well. Some are washing out after initially passing the urinalysis but then failing the hair test


Really stupid they even do the hair test IMO. Apparently pilots can consume it as long as it not within 8 hours of the start of their shift. I think that's a huge double standard. Still gets me that if someone's an alcoholic, there'd be no way to tell unless they were singled out.

Cannabis testing is having a huge impact on the labor market and will only become a bigger issue as more states legalize it. Industries and government regulators need to realize if they don't change, eventually they're going to have a very difficult time hiring.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 2, 2022)

Buzzing on personal time is fine but I do not want a distracted pothead near the controls of a plane, train, ship, or vehicle. It sounds like we need improved methods for preventing debilitative intoxication.


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## toddinde (Apr 2, 2022)

lordsigma said:


> The new board will get seated - but Gardner isn't going anywhere. And even if he did - you're likely to get someone with a similar mindset whoever comes in next - IE the NEC is what it's all about which from a business perspective is an understandable view for the Amtrak CEO to have. As much as many would like to wish otherwise - a Graham Claytor like CEO who's going to come in and make long distance into what it was in the old days simply doesn't exist. It's a thankless executive job with a lot of responsibility which likely doesn't pay anything close to what the airlines and other private sector employers pay their chief executives. This is why we got 3 retired short timer CEOs in a row doing it as a "service." This is just not a sought after job as they can't provide the perks that the private sector can.
> 
> At least Gardner could provide some longevity as being an insider he is likely to stay for a long time rather than a revolving door of 1 and a half year CEOs. Businessmen today are influenced heavily by the school of today's Wall Street which is all about cutting your way to success making a return with little care about how you do so long as you're making money. You're going to be hard pressed to find any executive type in 2022 who is not at least partially influenced by that doctrine because Wall Street controls most of corporate America. The answer is to get the new board in there and make clear what Amtrak's mission is and direct the management appropriately. I think at the end of the day Gardner will do as directed.


I absolutely disagree that the Amtrak board couldn’t hire an excellent executive. People do things for reasons other than money, and a long resume doesn’t make a good leader. I guarantee there are great leaders out there that would take the job, do it well, and focus on the national system. The northeast corridor isn’t, and shouldn’t be, the center of the Amtrak universe. The population growth in the US is not in the northeast. Yes, we need the corridor. But the rest of America needs rail service just as much. The new board structure has a more national focus by law, and the for profit language is gone. A good board can find a good CEO.


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## daybeers (Apr 2, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Buzzing on personal time is fine but I do not want a distracted pothead near the controls of a plane, train, ship, or vehicle. It sounds like we need improved methods for preventing debilitative intoxication.


I assume you feel the same of a distracted alcoholic. What methods do you propose for preventing debilitative intoxication?


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## jis (Apr 2, 2022)

daybeers said:


> I assume you feel the same of a distracted alcoholic. What methods do you propose for preventing debilitative intoxication?


Indian Railways insists on doing a breathalizer test on each T&E Crew just before they come on duty. That could at least help with alcohol related distraction. It sure won't be popular with the crew though.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 2, 2022)

daybeers said:


> I assume you feel the same of a distracted alcoholic. What methods do you propose for preventing debilitative intoxication?


In the case of alcoholics we have more established standards for measuring impairment, as well as portable alerting devices, precise real-time analysis, and a common set of behavior flags. It is in no way perfect but it does focus on active intoxication and is treated in a predictable fashion. I want to see us move in a similar direction with cannabis now that legal consumption is becoming more common.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 3, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> In the case of alcoholics we have more established standards for measuring impairment, as well as portable alerting devices, precise real-time analysis, and a common set of behavior flags. It is in no way perfect but it does focus on active intoxication and is treated in a predictable fashion. I want to see us move in a similar direction with cannabis now that legal consumption is becoming more common.


Oh, I agree, but it seems that the hair tests they use for cannabis are useless for determining whether you're intoxicated or otherwise impaired. Read this article: 

How long does weed stay in your system? Info about hair drug testing, specifically for a marijuana drug test (thecannabist.co)

The test doesn't tell whether you're stoned or otherwise impaired, it just indicates that you've use the stuff regularly within the past 90 days or so. Actually, the same goes for the urine tests, although they detect use within a much smaller time window (2-3 days). I think employers have been using the tests to screen out drug users in general (although they don't seem to care about regular alcohol users), not screen out people who are stoned when on the job. With staff shortages all over the place and recreational cannabis use legalized in many states, employers might need to rethink their policies on this issue. And of course, as stated, what they really need is some sort of "field sobriety test," and it turns out people are working on it:

Marijuana Breathalyzers & Sobriety Tests: Are They Accurate? | PotGuide.com

At the very least, employers should get rid of hair testing and focus on urine testing, plus the use of "drug recognition experts" who would be able to examine the individual's behavior on the job and determine whether or not they were impaired_ while they were on the job_.

Of course, that might not help employers or employees in the transportation sector, because of Federal laws and regulations, but those can be changed, too. And before too long, I think they'll have field sobriety tests for cannabis, just as they have them for alcohol. At that point they can get totally rid of both the urine and the hair tests.


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## Siegmund (Apr 3, 2022)

daybeers said:


> Really stupid they even do the hair test IMO. Apparently pilots can consume it as long as it not within 8 hours of the start of their shift. I think that's a huge double standard.



It is not that simple, for pilots. There is a very long list of medications, and how long you must remain on the ground after consuming them. If you are a pilot and take any medication, you and your doctor are expected to look up whatever you are taking, and act accordingly. The rules are sometimes a little bizarre. Required wait time is, for example, 24 hours after taking Ambien, but 60 hours after taking Benadryl. A prescription for codeine cough syrup grounds you until you are done taking it and can prove you no longer have an open prescription. Admitting to ongoing marijuana use will still cost you your medical certificate.


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## west point (Apr 3, 2022)

Siegmund said:


> Admitting to ongoing marijuana use will still cost you your medical certificate.



I was running a dispatcher class. The first 2 days started out telling class "Mary Jane do not use it and if you have withdraw to a later class when you can be found clean". You guess it. The 3rd day we ran the drug test. week later lost 2 plus they lost their medical but worse all their other FAA licenses. Commercial, private, instructor both plane and ground school. It was not pretty. One also had a commercial driver's license that was revoked. Do not remember who it was but some fed came to my class to collect licenses in person.


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## amtrakpass (Apr 4, 2022)

There will always be some issues hiring the right people, but one thing I think would help is to shorten the whole process. For too many years it has become normal for HR departments hiring process for labor jobs to take forever as if you were selecting people for a PHD program. It should not take weeks and months for candidates to hear back, and then months again in process. You lose too many people that would be good employees that way There also should not be a huge pre-qualification list for entry level jobs. If a candidate is wiling to work, maybe willing to move to a different city even, passes a drug test very early in the process, they should be in on the job training within a short period of time and give it a try in my view.
And most if not all railroad skills and jobs are only learned on the job anyway. 
To make the hiring process overly-selective for skills on paper that often cannot be determined beforehand in my view makes it more difficult than it needs to be to get good workers to be willing to start a career with the railroad


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## Ziv (Apr 4, 2022)

Management sometimes makes decisions that seem ridiculous later, but seem to make sense in the short run. Back in 1980 Mayor Barry was laying off Washington DC employees to cut spending and without really analyzing it even superficially, he and his staff laid off more than 50 meter maids. The problem was that each meter maid was paid less than a tenth of the amount that they brought in for the city. So every person laid off saved the city around $30k in wages and benefits but cost the city about $350k in lost revenue.



Michigan Mom said:


> Was reading the results of an audit which basically said Amtrak has so many staffing shortages right now, they don't even have enough people to do the hiring of enough people to get its act together any time soon. (Did not save the link, it was 3 am insomnia reading, but I'm sure people in the know, will know where to find the audit story). I'm just so floored by this. Employees were laid off during the worst of Covid, weren't they? Do they not try to call experienced people back to fill positions?
> In the meantime, Amtrak is selling out its sleeping car inventory, and the fares I see are mostly quite steep. Effect is to force us back to flying or stay home, I guess.


 run


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## 20th Century Rider (Apr 4, 2022)

Yikes! Most of the discussion seems to be about staffing shortages and availability... is money no object? Roomette fares between PDX and CHI range between $900 and $1400 each way in November for the dates I looked at. In the not so distant past I remember getting a sleeper with full meal service in the $250 range each way.

Deteriorating service and sky high fares are very discouraging. 

The pandemic, economy, environmental modifications, and the Ukraine crisis are certainly contributing to supply and work force shortages. I wonder how other AU'ers are coping???


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## jis (Apr 4, 2022)

20th Century Rider said:


> The pandemic, economy, environmental modifications, and the Ukraine crisis are certainly contributing to supply and work force shortages. I wonder how other AU'ers are coping???


For the train(s) that I normally frequent - the Silver Service, the only degradation compared to pre-COVID is that we now have a single through train instead of two, but capacity available is about the same on that single train as was available in the two trains put together.

For those who connect from it to go north beyond NY it is a problem, and for those who head west from Washington it is almost a problem. But for us who stay within the corridor, it is more or less a wash, with some inconvenience for a few specific city pairs. The actual Sleeper fares that I have gotten have stayed within a stable range for a while now.

Still I am eagerly waiting to go back to the two train normal and of course for Traditional Dining to return.


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## Sidney (Apr 4, 2022)

Price is the only concern for me. Having done many long distance trips I am finding it harder and harder to justify those sky high roomette prices. Up until two years ago I would do a circle trip every year. Now I take the train one way and fly the other. When senior roomette fares are over $700 on the CS from LA to PDX and over $1000 on the EB from PDX to CHI that's where I draw the line.

In 2019 and 2020 low buckets on the CS and EB were around $400 and $505 from start to finish. Maybe they still are but I am not finding them. The SWC and TE/Sunset still have a few low buckets.

Amtrak continues to push sleeper prices out of range for average Americans. Amtrak describes sleepers as luxury travel. The alternative,sleeping in Coach for three nights ,unless you are young and I have done it,is rough.


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## Eric in East County (Apr 4, 2022)

In another thread in a different forum, I asked if Amtrak appears to be in better or worse shape (personnel-wise, equipment-wise, website functions-wise, etc.) than it was a year ago. On our trip to Ohio last summer, everything appeared to be operating more or less like it did before COVID appeared. (The trains we traveled on were the Pacific Surfliner (business class) the Southwest Chief (bedroom) and the Capitol Limited (coach) so this might have had something to do with what we observed.) You would think that a year later, things would be even better, although judging from some of the comments that have been posted to this thread, that might not be the case. The cost of a bedroom is certainly higher than it was last year!


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## thully (Apr 4, 2022)

Currently looking at booking the Empire Builder this summer as part of a loop trip with the Canadian, and I’m starting to wonder whether I should avoid booking on days the train isn’t currently operating. I know they would try and reaccomodate me if they can’t operate as planned, though I don’t want to run the chance of there being no roomettes on the date I want to rebook to.


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## Arson451 (Apr 5, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> There will always be some issues hiring the right people, but one thing I think would help is to shorten the whole process. For too many years it has become normal for HR departments hiring process for labor jobs to take forever as if you were selecting people for a PHD program. It should not take weeks and months for candidates to hear back, and then months again in process. You lose too many people that would be good employees that way There also should not be a huge pre-qualification list for entry level jobs. If a candidate is wiling to work, maybe willing to move to a different city even, passes a drug test very early in the process, they should be in on the job training within a short period of time and give it a try in my view.
> And most if not all railroad skills and jobs are only learned on the job anyway.
> To make the hiring process overly-selective for skills on paper that often cannot be determined beforehand in my view makes it more difficult than it needs to be to get good workers to be willing to start a career with the railroad


I am currently waiting for my conditional offer to become permanent. I started the process back in January for an LSA position. It’s beyond ridiculous that it takes this long to fill spots where people are needed. The adjudication board has had my application for almost 4 weeks and their hang up is a dui I got 7 years ago. Each week they send back another question about it and then wait another week to send a follow up question. My HR liaison is beyond annoyed. I was slated for a 4/11 training start and she won’t know if I’m eligible for the class until 4/7. Also, I don’t know how they expect to give people such short notice when we have jobs and lives already.


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## John Bredin (Apr 5, 2022)

Eric in East County said:


> In another thread in a different forum, I asked if Amtrak appears to be in better or worse shape (personnel-wise, equipment-wise, website functions-wise, etc.) than it was a year ago. On our trip to Ohio last summer, everything appeared to be operating more or less like it did before COVID appeared. (The trains we traveled on were the Pacific Surfliner (business class) the Southwest Chief (bedroom) and the Capitol Limited (coach) so this might have had something to do with what we observed.) You would think that a year later, things would be even better, although judging from some of the comments that have been posted to this thread, that might not be the case. The cost of a bedroom is certainly higher than it was last year!


My guess would be two things, one general and one Amtrak-specific.

1) The "Great Resignation" struck the economy after Covid eased up. I think it's more the Great Reshuffle than Resignation -- some people died or retired early, and others understandably took the chance to go up a rank or two, leaving the lower rungs of the economy scrambling for personnel. But nonetheless, it and the logistics tangles took hold not when Covid was at its worst but when it was easing off and people who had income during the worst but less to spend it on felt comfortable spending it again.

In this regard, it reminds me of the post-WWII boom when people paid well in a war economy (war industry workers, others taking jobs left open by millions going into the military) but with little to spend it on during rationing could now, legally and in their own consciences, spend it when the war ended. There are several pop-culture artifacts from the late 1940s (_Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House_, anyone?) of housing shortages, logistics snafus, and price hikes from the increased housing demand slamming into a housing industry that had shrunk atrociously during the Depression and war rationing. I imagine there were other such 2021-seeming logistics issues (cars? radios? home appliances?) that didn't survive into pop-culture consciousness decades later.

1.5) The above manifests in increased Amtrak demand, echoing the general increased travel demand. People were choosing sleepers for safer socially-distanced travel during the worst of Covid, buoying demand and prices during what otherwise would have been a drought of Biblical proportion. But a lot of people weren't traveling in the first place. 

Now, as most people feel comfortable traveling again, I'm sure some of the more Covid-cautious people who didn't travel at all during the worst of Covid are dipping their toes in and choosing sleepers, who in years past would've flown but don't feel quite that comfortable yet. I presume that demand is much greater than the "gotta travel, will take a sleeper" travelers of 2020.

2) Amtrak laying off or granting early retirement to repair personnel wouldn't have immediately shrunk the available fleet, it would have taken some time to have its effect. Conversely, its effects will linger as the rehired or new repair workers will first have to attack the backlog of out-of-service cars before returning to the pre-Covid repair rhythm.


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## lordsigma (Apr 5, 2022)

thully said:


> Currently looking at booking the Empire Builder this summer as part of a loop trip with the Canadian, and I’m starting to wonder whether I should avoid booking on days the train isn’t currently operating. I know they would try and reaccomodate me if they can’t operate as planned, though I don’t want to run the chance of there being no roomettes on the date I want to rebook to.



I would probably consider that if I were you.


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## toddinde (Apr 5, 2022)

amtrakpass said:


> There will always be some issues hiring the right people, but one thing I think would help is to shorten the whole process. For too many years it has become normal for HR departments hiring process for labor jobs to take forever as if you were selecting people for a PHD program. It should not take weeks and months for candidates to hear back, and then months again in process. You lose too many people that would be good employees that way There also should not be a huge pre-qualification list for entry level jobs. If a candidate is wiling to work, maybe willing to move to a different city even, passes a drug test very early in the process, they should be in on the job training within a short period of time and give it a try in my view.
> And most if not all railroad skills and jobs are only learned on the job anyway.
> To make the hiring process overly-selective for skills on paper that often cannot be determined beforehand in my view makes it more difficult than it needs to be to get good workers to be willing to start a career with the railroad


Correct. Hiring the wrong person is an expensive disaster, but taking too long loses good candidates.


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## amtrakpass (Apr 5, 2022)

My thought is that in the case of employees who are not supervisors, it may be a disaster to let people who are not catching on stay past their 90 day to 6 month or so probation/training period but most new hires actually work out fine at least until they find a better job; and too many prospective employees never get the chance to prove themselves able. Of course the process should be more in depth for supervisor or higher positions but regular workers I feel deserve a quick decision from job posting to hire date.


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## dlagrua (Apr 5, 2022)

Looking at the current state of LD travel we are not using Amtrak in 2022. If the situation improves we will be back in 2023 but it certainly looks to me that Amtrak is doing everything to kill LD service.


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## neroden (Apr 5, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Buzzing on personal time is fine but I do not want a distracted pothead near the controls of a plane, train, ship, or vehicle. It sounds like we need improved methods for preventing debilitative intoxication.


The hair test will test if you were exposed as much as 90 days earlier; it's useless. Even the urine test (2 to 3 days earlier) is essentially useless. 

We have to go back to actually testing people's reaction times.


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## neroden (Apr 5, 2022)

John Bredin said:


> 2) Amtrak laying off or granting early retirement to repair personnel



This was a spectacularly stupid act of self-sabotage by Stephen Gardner, at whose desk the buck stops. He was warned explicitly not to do it by RPA. This, along with the timetables, is one of the two top reasons I consider him incompetent. And both of these horrific errors affect the NEC just as much as the so-called long-distance trains.


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## trimetbusfan (Apr 6, 2022)

John Bredin said:


> If Amtrak wasn't selling tickets for days outside the present five-day operation, wouldn't that make people nervous that daily service wasn't going to return?!



There is a good chance that they will end up canceling the train. My friend was literally about to book a trip on the silver meteor. He kept monitoring the prices daily. Then one day he checked, and *canceled.*

Not good for the people who were originally booked on that train.


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## joelkfla (Apr 6, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> My friend was literally about to book a trip on the silver meteor. He kept monitoring the prices daily. Then one day he checked, and *canceled.*
> 
> Not good for the people who were originally booked on that train.


They would have been switched to the Silver Star, since the current SuperStar has the same number of coaches & sleepers as the normal Meteor & Star together. Unless they were making a connection, which for almost all cases don't work on the Star,


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## trimetbusfan (Apr 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> They would have been switched to the Silver Star, since the current SuperStar has the same number of coaches & sleepers as the normal Meteor & Star together. Unless they were making a connection, which for almost all cases don't work on the Star,



They ended up having to cancel because they were making a connection from Boston. Taking the star would have required a very early departure from Boston


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 6, 2022)

dlagrua said:


> Looking at the current state of LD travel we are not using Amtrak in 2022. If the situation improves we will be back in 2023 but it certainly looks to me that Amtrak is doing everything to kill LD service.



Kind of in agreement, although I'm always going to hold out hope. I don't believe Amtrak is trying to kill LD service. They are marketing the HECK out of it. Have you seen the social media posts with the happy families sharing snacks and playing card games in their Bedroom? No Amtrak isn't going to tell you that this family is among those who can afford to shell out $1-2K for one way travel that doesn't even take into account destination costs. They are selling something that they know has buyers. For many of us old time Amtrak fans, we are reduced to giving out advice and reliving the days when we could afford to do this too. In the meantime, the limited supply is going to those who can afford to avoid flying or driving.


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## Brian Battuello (Apr 7, 2022)

Excellent summary.


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 7, 2022)

I don't mean to sound negative. It's an economic reality, though, that I'm getting adjusted to.
There is a silver lining, which is Amtrak Coach, and Corridor trains. Pleasant mode of travel. Quite affordable. Downside is gets less pleasant for overnight. Increased services one day could, conceivably lead to daytime coach travel with hotel overnights that would be a fraction of the sleeper costs...Yet another silver lining, taking on added significance, is the AGR card. For me this may well be the path to future sleeper car trips, far less frequent, but at least attainable once in a blue moon.


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## jebr (Apr 11, 2022)

One thing I noticed today that's concerning - at least on the Empire Builder, the days of the week that currently have no train are now priced at the highest bucket through the end of September (departure date,) both in coach where only the Flexible fare is available, and in sleeper where it appears to be hard-set to the highest bucket. Other days seem to have standard variability based in sold seats, expected demand, etc. - it's just the days of the week that are cancelled through the end of May that are now high-bucket only through the end of September.

I imagine Amtrak would only do this if they feel that there is a decent likelihood that they'll have to cancel the train and reaccommodate people on different days - if you're planning on running the train, you'd let the standard pricing algorithm handle fare management. My guess is that while they don't know for sure yet whether the train will be cancelled, they're pricing it highly so very few people buy tickets, and thus they have fewer people to reaccommodate on a different schedule - plus, since they've paid high bucket, you don't have to worry about fare difference or potentially selling a seat too cheap for the day that it winds up being used on.

I have a trip around the 4th of July where our dates aren't super-changeable (we could leave one day later and skip a planned stop, but that day is _also_ on the chopping block currently) and I've been looking at alternatives - none are very good. Amtrak could rebook us on the Thruway bus + Hiawatha, but that adds a couple of hours to our trip and misses a connection to the regional train we were planning on taking with no later options. We could skip that side trip and just settle on Chicago for the full trip, but even then replacing an 8 hour train ride with an 8 hour bus ride plus an hour and a half train ride is not an enjoyable prospect. Direct bus prospects aren't particularly great (no direct Megabus option, Flixbus only in one direction, and only three Greyhounds at relatively high pricing) and airfares are around double saver fare pricing (and quadruple what we paid with our advance booking.) I'm hoping Amtrak ultimately runs the train both ways as it's by far our best option, but I'm keeping track of our alternatives just in case.


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## Sidney (Apr 11, 2022)

jebr said:


> One thing I noticed today that's concerning - at least on the Empire Builder, the days of the week that currently have no train are now priced at the highest bucket through the end of September (departure date,) both in coach where only the Flexible fare is available, and in sleeper where it appears to be hard-set to the highest bucket. Other days seem to have standard variability based in sold seats, expected demand, etc. - it's just the days of the week that are cancelled through the end of May that are now high-bucket only through the end of September.
> 
> I imagine Amtrak would only do this if they feel that there is a decent likelihood that they'll have to cancel the train and reaccommodate people on different days - if you're planning on running the train, you'd let the standard pricing algorithm handle fare management. My guess is that while they don't know for sure yet whether the train will be cancelled, they're pricing it highly so very few people buy tickets, and thus they have fewer people to reaccommodate on a different schedule - plus, since they've paid high bucket, you don't have to worry about fare difference or potentially selling a seat too cheap for the day that it winds up being used on.
> 
> I have a trip around the 4th of July where our dates aren't super-changeable (we could leave one day later and skip a planned stop, but that day is _also_ on the chopping block currently) and I've been looking at alternatives - none are very good. Amtrak could rebook us on the Thruway bus + Hiawatha, but that adds a couple of hours to our trip and misses a connection to the regional train we were planning on taking with no later options. We could skip that side trip and just settle on Chicago for the full trip, but even then replacing an 8 hour train ride with an 8 hour bus ride plus an hour and a half train ride is not an enjoyable prospect. Direct bus prospects aren't particularly great (no direct Megabus option, Flixbus only in one direction, and only three Greyhounds at relatively high pricing) and airfares are around double saver fare pricing (and quadruple what we paid with our advance booking.) I'm hoping Amtrak ultimately runs the train both ways as it's by far our best option, but I'm keeping track of our alternatives just in case.


We are scheduled to be on the Zephyr on a Sunday in July. Sunday is one of the days they are not currently running. I also noticed Coach fares are quite high. Earlier this month I talked to an AGR agent who assured me the Zephyr will be at seven days by Memorial Day. Still skeptical I asked if she could book us one day earlier. She could but the price would have been $500 more. It's coming on mid April. I wish Amtrak would give us a definative answer on the LD trains returning to seven day service. We do not want to be downgraded to Coach. Hope there is a definative answer soon. This is my wife's first time on the Zephyr. I really want her to experience that train and journey from Chicago to Sacramento.


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## joelkfla (Apr 11, 2022)

Sidney said:


> I wish Amtrak would give us a definative answer on the LD trains returning to seven day service.


But they _have_, just as did with the earlier date. But they reserve the right to change their plans.


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## west point (Apr 11, 2022)

It all about equipment availability. That is can Amtrak get enough cars roadworthy and passenger ready? As well have enough T&E + OBS personnel been revenue qualified?


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## daybeers (Apr 11, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> But they _have_, just as did with the earlier date. But they reserve the right to change their plans.


Shouldn't need to; they've had more than enough time.



west point said:


> It all about equipment availability. That is can Amtrak get enough cars roadworthy and passenger ready? As well have enough T&E + OBS personnel been revenue qualified?


It's well known the problem starts with the HR department.


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## Pal2Pluto (Apr 12, 2022)

jebr said:


> One thing I noticed today that's concerning - at least on the Empire Builder, the days of the week that currently have no train are now priced at the highest bucket through the end of September (departure date,) both in coach where only the Flexible fare is available, and in sleeper where it appears to be hard-set to the highest bucket. Other days seem to have standard variability based in sold seats, expected demand, etc. - it's just the days of the week that are cancelled through the end of May that are now high-bucket only through the end of September.



ok...... I am SO confused and panicking a bit here. We have a cross country trip planned in July where the travel on Amtrak IS the vacation. Most of the time we are coach, but when we are on the EB, we splurged on a roomette, expecting that to be one of the highlights of the trip. I had no idea there were days of the week they sold tickets for but didn't run. What days don't they run??? I certainly don't want to end up on a bus crossing the country! 

Where can I find a list of days they currently don't run????


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## jebr (Apr 12, 2022)

Pal2Pluto said:


> ok...... I am SO confused and panicking a bit here. We have a cross country trip planned in July where the travel on Amtrak IS the vacation. Most of the time we are coach, but when we are on the EB, we splurged on a roomette, expecting that to be one of the highlights of the trip. I had no idea there were days of the week they sold tickets for but didn't run. What days don't they run??? I certainly don't want to end up on a bus crossing the country!
> 
> Where can I find a list of days they currently don't run????



Down at the bottom of this page there's a list: Amtrak Timetables | Rail Passengers Association | Washington, DC - note that a couple of the trains (not the Empire Builder) are back to daily service. For the Empire Builder specifically it's departures on Thursday and Friday from their origination point.

Also, the bus in particular is only really relevant for MSP - there's a pre-existing bus connection from MSP to MKE to connect smaller towns in central Wisconsin to the Amtrak network. As far as I'm aware Amtrak isn't running replacement bus service for the long-term cancellations; they'll only offer a bus option if it's already there before the cancellations. (Note that if it's a day-of cancellation due to some sort of unforeseen circumstance they may have a replacement bus then - but not for these long-term cancellations.)


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## joelkfla (Apr 12, 2022)

Pal2Pluto said:


> I had no idea there were days of the week they sold tickets for but didn't run.


That's not quite the situation.

These trains normally run every day, but, claiming equipment and staffing shortages due to the pandemic, Amtrak reduced the frequency earlier this year to 5 days a week. They had promised to restore daily service in March, but said they still had shortages and didn't do so.

Now they are saying they'll restore daily service on May 21, but people on this board are worrying that they'll push it back again.

So they are not selling tickets for days the train is not scheduled to run. They expect to be running daily by then. It's just that people here don't trust Amtrak to meet that expectation.


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## tricia (Apr 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> That's not quite the situation.
> 
> These trains normally run every day, but, claiming equipment and staffing shortages due to the pandemic, Amtrak reduced the frequency earlier this year to 5 days a week. They had promised to restore daily service in March, but said they still had shortages didn't do so.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that concise sum-up. Personally, I'm reluctant to make any Amtrak-dependent long-distance plans AT ALL for any time in 2022, until there's more clarity about what will actually be running on which days.


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## dadonatrain (Apr 12, 2022)

tricia said:


> Thanks for that concise sum-up. Personally, I'm reluctant to make any Amtrak-dependent long-distance plans AT ALL for any time in 2022, until there's more clarity about what will actually be running on which days.


Same for me, Tricia. As badly as I want to get back on a train, any train, to anywhere, I just don’t think Amtrak has its act together quite enough at the moment to take that chance. Too much uncertainty. Sob…


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## Sidney (Apr 12, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> Same for me, Tricia. As badly as I want to get back on a train, any train, to anywhere, I just don’t think Amtrak has its act together quite enough at the moment to take that chance. Too much uncertainty. Sob…


It's always a risk. However I did find lower priced roomettes to do a nice circle trip in August. I've never stopped riding even during the worst of the pandemic and I never had a problem outside of late trains. My problem was the outrageous price of roomettes. However an Empire Builder fare from Seattle to Chicago dropped over $400 so I could complete a circle trip. Fares go up and down every day. I check everyday.

Amtrak has a lot of negatives,including freight traffic,flex dining and expensive fares but if you can find something that you like and fits,it's worth it.

As a three decade plus rider I still say there is nothing like having a sleeper with traditional dining traveling across the country. Im 73 and get excited now as I did when I began long distance riding at 40. It never gets old.


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## dadonatrain (Apr 12, 2022)

Sidney said:


> It's always a risk. However I did find lower priced roomettes to do a nice circle trip in August. I've never stopped riding even during the worst of the pandemic and I never had a problem outside of late trains. My problem was the outrageous price of roomettes.
> 
> My pblm too, Sidney, esp roomette sand rooms on the Crescent, where I need to start any trip.
> 
> ...


.

You got that right, Sidney! I’ve told my family for fifty years now (I’m 78) that watching the world go by out a train window is just about the most fun I can have sitting down! I’ve even told them that if I hadn’t already said I want them to cremate me, not bury me, my epitaph would be “All things considered, I’d rather be on a train”


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## thully (Apr 12, 2022)

Is that per person for 2 occupants or for a single person? I’ve been looking for roomettes on the EB and most days are $1074 for a single person (which I believe is high bucket). Lowest I generally see is around $700.


Sidney said:


> It's always a risk. However I did find lower priced roomettes to do a nice circle trip in August. I've never stopped riding even during the worst of the pandemic and I never had a problem outside of late trains. My problem was the outrageous price of roomettes. However an Empire Builder fare from Seattle to Chicago dropped over $400 so I could complete a circle trip. Fares go up and down every day. I check everyday.
> 
> Amtrak has a lot of negatives,including freight traffic,flex dining and expensive fares but if you can find something that you like and fits,it's worth it.
> 
> As a three decade plus rider I still say there is nothing like having a sleeper with traditional dining traveling across the country. Im 73 and get excited now as I did when I began long distance riding at 40. It never gets old.


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## Sidney (Apr 12, 2022)

thully said:


> Is that per person for 2 occupantsOnd or for a single person? I’ve been looking for roomettes on the EB and most days are $1074 for a single person (which I believe is high bucket). Lowest I generally see is around $700.


Single person. I needed an Empire Builder in late August to work with the Texas Eagle/Sunset fare I got coming out. $1050 was the price for every day I looked at. I refuse to pay that price. Out of curiosity I checked this morning and the price on one of the days I was looking at dropped to $623. Now that's more like it!

I had reservations on Southwest to fly back to BWI from Portland. You can't cancel on SWest but you get a credit that I plan to apply to a flight to Fort Lauderdale in November to take a cruise. A win win


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## trimetbusfan (Apr 12, 2022)

jebr said:


> One thing I noticed today that's concerning - at least on the Empire Builder, the days of the week that currently have no train are now priced at the highest bucket through the end of September (departure date,) both in coach where only the Flexible fare is available, and in sleeper where it appears to be hard-set to the highest bucket. Other days seem to have standard variability based in sold seats, expected demand, etc. - it's just the days of the week that are cancelled through the end of May that are now high-bucket only through the end of September.
> 
> I imagine Amtrak would only do this if they feel that there is a decent likelihood that they'll have to cancel the train and reaccommodate people on different days - if you're planning on running the train, you'd let the standard pricing algorithm handle fare management. My guess is that while they don't know for sure yet whether the train will be cancelled, they're pricing it highly so very few people buy tickets, and thus they have fewer people to reaccommodate on a different schedule - plus, since they've paid high bucket, you don't have to worry about fare difference or potentially selling a seat too cheap for the day that it winds up being used on.



I had noticed this as well. When I went to book a trip on the Coast Starlight this summer, there were no saver or value fares available for all We/Th departures, even months in advance.

Once Amtrak announced that the CS would restore to daily service in March, those fares did go back to their fluctuating bucket price with saver fares, etc.


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## west point (Apr 12, 2022)

Just cannot believe Amtrak will solve this equipment shortage thru August


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## MARC Rider (Apr 12, 2022)

tricia said:


> Thanks for that concise sum-up. Personally, I'm reluctant to make any Amtrak-dependent long-distance plans AT ALL for any time in 2022, until there's more clarity about what will actually be running on which days.


I don't think you have to go that far. Just book the trip for one of the days the train is running now. It will probably be running this summer, too. It's not like they're going to totally cancel the trains.


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## 20th Century Rider (Apr 13, 2022)

After a frustrating few hours attempting to book something from the West to CHI on any train between September through December 2022 I was told only highest bucket space available and only a few dates available. I was quoted lowest price EUG CHI $1200 on certain dates only 'but better grab now' plus plus ... for a roomette and much higher for an H room which I normally travel and require. I suspect that coach seating will be getting full as well with difficulty even getting a window seat which isn't guaranteed. But apparently single travelers will be 'guaranteed' seating next to a stranger. Some roomettes priced out at $4500 RT from EUG to CHI. I could fly to Europe in business class for less!

Am I missing something? Is it worth it to spend thousands for whatever roomettes are available on a crowded and expensive train? Ok! Amazon just attached a 5% surcharge to all orders and gas is $6 per gallon and going higher. It seems Amtrak is in sync with smothering inflation as it downgrades service at the same time.

So how are other AU'ers who want to ride the rails coping with this inflation nightmare???


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## Sidney (Apr 13, 2022)

20th Century Rider said:


> After a frustrating few hours attempting to book something from the West to CHI on any train between September through December 2022 I was told only highest bucket space available and only a few dates available. I was quoted lowest price EUG CHI $1200 on certain dates only 'but better grab now' plus plus ... for a roomette and much higher for an H room which I normally travel and require. I suspect that coach seating will be getting full as well with difficulty even getting a window seat which isn't guaranteed. But apparently single travelers will be 'guaranteed' seating next to a stranger. Some roomettes priced out at $4500 RT from EUG to CHI. I could fly to Europe in business class for less!
> 
> Am I missing something? Is it worth it to spend thousands for whatever roomettes are available on a crowded and expensive train? Ok! Amazon just attached a 5% surcharge to all orders and gas is $6 per gallon and going higher. It seems Amtrak is in sync with smothering inflation as it downgrades service at the same time.
> 
> So how are other AU'ers who want to ride the rails coping with this inflation nightmare???


I hear ya. Fares are outrageous,but I managed to book a Circle trip for late August on the Eagle/Sunset,Coast Starlight and Empire Builder. Low bucket on ths TE/Sunset,and second tier on the EB. Only holdout was the CS. At $700 plus from LAX-PDX I opted for Business Class with the hope I can have both seats. It takes a lot of planning and time and manually going through every date that you are interested in.

I keep thinking I'll never find low buckets on roomettes but they occasionally pop up. In an earlier post I wrote I was going to fly home from Portland being I kept seeing $1050 roomettes. Then one of those days the fare dropped to $623. Grabbed it immediately.

Out of curiosity I checked some October and November roomette fares on the Southwest Chief and Sunset/Eagle from LAX to CHI and there are a several low buckets available. Is Eugene your origination? To get to LA in a roomette is quite high.


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## 20th Century Rider (Apr 14, 2022)

Sidney said:


> Out of curiosity I checked some October and November roomette fares on the Southwest Chief and Sunset/Eagle from LAX to CHI and there are a several low buckets available. Is Eugene your origination? To get to LA in a roomette is quite high.


Good info... and will check again today... and hoping for a better agent!


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## glensfallsse (Apr 14, 2022)

Quick question, there used to be a tool to check prices over a 30-day period ... Amsnag or something like that. Is that still available?


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## Sidney (Apr 15, 2022)

glensfallsse said:


> Quick question, there used to be a tool to check prices over a 30-day period ... Amsnag or something like that. Is that still available?


Amsnag is gone. You have to punch in each date manually. It would be nice to get at least a week's views of prices,but we're talking Amtrak which won't even print timetables.


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## Railspike (May 2, 2022)

Once Amtrak is adequately staffed again (if ever) and there are plenty of cars available to create a full consist for each train, what are the chances that fares will reach pre-COVID levels again? Or, are the high fares here to stay? Anybody's guess.


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## west point (May 3, 2022)

Too early to even guess equipment, T&E, and OBS availability.


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## Willbridge (May 4, 2022)

While reading this, MS Edge popped up a flag telling me to hurry and apply for the "27 openings" that Amtrak has in Denver. That may include some other locations in the region.


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## fengshui (Jun 3, 2022)

I think equipment shortages are going to be an issue for the foreseeable future. I was watching a Youtube video of a #5 CZ run from March, and the #6 they passed going East had the TS, one sleeper, and no Dining Car! At least they got a Sightseer Lounge, but no dining car would definitely detract from the experience.


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## John Bredin (Jun 4, 2022)

Equipment shortages aren't done, but March isn't necessarily a fair measure a couple of months later. YouTube also has live railcams, and I've recently seen five coaches on the Lake Shore Limited and three coaches on the Capitol Limited when both stopped at Elkhart IN.


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## jis (Jun 4, 2022)

John Bredin said:


> Equipment shortages aren't done, but March isn't necessarily a fair measure a couple of months later. YouTube also has live railcams, and I've recently seen five coaches on the Lake Shore Limited and three coaches on the Capitol Limited when both stopped at Elkhart IN.


Yes. March is way out of date. There have been at least two sets of additions to the deployed equipment since then.


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## Cal (Jun 4, 2022)

fengshui said:


> I think equipment shortages are going to be an issue for the foreseeable future. I was watching a Youtube video of a #5 CZ run from March, and the #6 they passed going East had the TS, one sleeper, and no Dining Car! At least they got a Sightseer Lounge, but no dining car would definitely detract from the experience.


Could you please send the video? I don’t know if Amtrak could get away with sending out a CZ without a diner.


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## trimetbusfan (Jun 5, 2022)

Cal said:


> Could you please send the video? I don’t know if Amtrak could get away with sending out a CZ without a diner.


I think they are talking about this video (will link below). See at about 34 mins in. Not really sure why the consist is missing 2 cars on this day, but I’m almost certain it’s a one off.


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## Eric in East County (Jul 1, 2022)

Revisiting this thread (which was started on March 30), it is interesting to compare the comments that were made back then with how things are at present.


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## Eric in East County (Jul 1, 2022)

neroden said:


> To answer the question of the original poster: daily service is likely by summer, but "having their act together" by summer? No chance.


This response is from April 1st. At that time, we already had confirmed bedroom reservations on the SWC for June 28th which we assumed were rock solid. Boy, did we get a surprise!


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