# Print-at-home tickets



## TransitGeek (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I couldn't manage to find an appropriate older thread, so I'll start this one.

Why is it that Amtrak can't manage to use print-at-home tickets?

I've heard before that it's because this requires a data connection back to a central server in order to properly read the bar code on a ticket, and that the reason airlines are able to pull it off is because of the ubiquitous data connectivity in airports. Amtrak, the argument goes, stops at so many tiny, rural stations in the middle of nowhere that even cellular data connections might be unreliable, leaving us stuck with the present system.

However, the other major intercity transportation provider in this country (Greyhound) manages to enable print-at-home ticketing, and they probably serve an even more diverse and out-of-the-way set of rural communities. How is it that I can print my Greyhound tickets at home, but printing Amtrak tickets requires a visit to the station downtown (if they're regular tickets) or Orange County (if they're AGR tickets or require a staffed station)?

And, while we're at it, why is it that USA Rail Pass tickets must be picked up at a staffed station, or that AGR tickets can't be printed from Metrolink machines? These restrictions make train travel from Riverside quite inconvenient.


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## Acela150 (Jan 22, 2011)

Keep in mind that Amtrak needs to keep a part of the ticket for records like, AGR points, Ridership, and other facts you would be amazed about.  When the crew collects tickets they need something to give to their boss. If Amtrak had a "print at home" system it would be a little harder to do and funding would be an issue.

An option is a barcode that has all the information that would goto a central system that Amtrak has. All the conductor does is scan the barcode and punch the ticket or stamp it and it collects all the information needed. AGR, Ridership numbers, and the other facts.


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## TVRM610 (Jan 22, 2011)

What Acela150 says is the primary reason... the barcode system that Amtrak needs to develop for print at home ticketing to work is complex and expensive to develop. I'm not saying it can't be done, it is probably in the works but I've seen the whole Print at Home ticketing thing really backfire before.

Honestly I have never used print at home ticketing for concerts, shows, or transit even when it is available. I honestly don't see the advantages, especially when there is never a line at the quick trak machines! I mean.. avoid the lines at the busy stations.. ok, but Quick Trak Machines are very convenient, and then you don't have to worry about losing your ticket on the way to the station! haha.


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## daveyb99 (Jan 22, 2011)

Acela150 said:


> Keep in mind that Amtrak needs to keep a part of the ticket for records like, AGR points, Ridership, and other facts you would be amazed about.  When the crew collects tickets they need something to give to their boss. If Amtrak had a "print at home" system it would be a little harder to do and funding would be an issue.


Excuses. Nothing but excuses.

Airlines have been doing Electronic Ticketing for over a decade: including keeping track of reward points, disruptions, and "many other facts you would be amazed about" - including international interline travel !!

Sure the logistics might need some thought as not every AMTRAK station is staffed. But there is a way.

Absent upgrades to the entire computer system, the Print-At-Home ticket (I already get a fancy receipt) seems a very logical first step, and one that could be implemented yesterday.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jan 22, 2011)

TransitGeek said:


> However, the other major intercity transportation provider in this country (Greyhound) manages to enable print-at-home ticketing, and they probably serve an even more diverse and out-of-the-way set of rural communities. How is it that I can print my Greyhound tickets at home, but printing Amtrak tickets requires a visit to the station downtown (if they're regular tickets) or Orange County (if they're AGR tickets or require a staffed station)?


My major intercity bus transportation provider does not allow print-at-home tickets. I actually have to go to one of their bus stations to buy my ticket (which BTW is for me to travel to the nearist Amtrak station).

BTW, where in Orange County can you get Amtrak tickets? Newburgh? Middletown? Monroe?


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## Train2104 (Jan 22, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> BTW, where in Orange County can you get Amtrak tickets? Newburgh? Middletown? Monroe?


Amtrak doesn't serve Orange County. You'll have to go up to Rhinecliff-Kingston or down to NYP for a ticket agent. Quick-Trak is available at Poughkeepsie.


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## Ryan (Jan 22, 2011)

For the eleventy billionth time here, Amtrak is working on E-ticketing, which will allow this. It's a heck of a lot harder to do on a moving train than it is a fixed building.


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## bretton88 (Jan 22, 2011)

Greyhound does NOT do e-ticketing. They have more staffed stations which makes it easier to take your confirmation and have an agent print the actual tickets. I have taken greyhound many times and never gotten an e-ticket. I always had to have the station agent print my ticket. Now for rural stops, the driver will take the confirmation if it's an emergency.


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## Scary Kitty (Jan 22, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> Cho Cho Charlie said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, where in Orange County can you get Amtrak tickets? Newburgh? Middletown? Monroe?
> ...


Huh? :blink: I believe TransitGeek was talking about Orange County in *California*, which is served by Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner.


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## TVRM610 (Jan 22, 2011)

Ryan said:


> For the eleventy billionth time here, Amtrak is working on E-ticketing, which will allow this. It's a heck of a lot harder to do on a moving train than it is a fixed building.


Exactly... It's also probably not a huge priority in the grand scheme of things budget wise. Meaning.. there are better things to spend money on then putting e-ticketing on the "fast track" (pun very much intended).


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## transit54 (Jan 22, 2011)

Just for clarification, Greyhound only allows e-ticketing at very select stations. I'd say e-ticketing is not permitted in at least 80% of their stations, if not more.

Comparatively, you're asking why can't Amtrak allow e-ticketing for passengers departing from BOS, NYP, WAS and no other stations. How effective would that be? I'd say, not very (can you imagine the confusion of traveling from NYP to PHL with an e-ticket, but not being able to get one back?). Amtrak, as others have pointed out, is working on an e-ticketing system to cover the whole system, but the raises a number of technical problems that Greyhound has completely sidestepped by dramatically limiting the coverage of their system (and mostly only allowing it on direct busses or busses that make minimal stops).

I'd rather a full blown e-ticketing system rather than the bare-bones e-ticketing that Greyhound decided on.


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## Train2104 (Jan 22, 2011)

Scary Kitty said:


> Huh? :blink: I believe TransitGeek was talking about Orange County in *California*, which is served by Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner.


Well, the sample cities he gave were in Orange County, New York.


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## Trogdor (Jan 22, 2011)

daveyb99 said:


> Acela150 said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that Amtrak needs to keep a part of the ticket for records like, AGR points, Ridership, and other facts you would be amazed about.  When the crew collects tickets they need something to give to their boss. If Amtrak had a "print at home" system it would be a little harder to do and funding would be an issue.
> ...


Keep in mind that those excuses are Acela150's explanations, not necessarily Amtrak's.

The main holdup for a print-at-home ticketing system has been (until recently) the need to have a device that can be in absolute constant contact with a computer server to verify the validity of a ticket. As has been mentioned at least 30 million times before, airlines do ticket checks/verifications at a fixed location (the gate at the airport). If the flight attendants had to check tickets mid-air, you probably wouldn't have seen electronic ticketing so soon.

Also, it should be noted that even though airlines have been doing "e-ticketing" for over a decade, it has only been in the past couple of years that print-at-home boarding passes were available. The first e-tickets still required you to go to the ticket counter and get a boarding pass. That's really not all that different from making an Amtrak reservation online and going to the station on the day of travel and picking up a ticket from an agent or a Quik-Trak machine. So, to make it sound like you could buy an airline ticket and show up to the gate with just an image on your cell phone back in the year 2000 is misrepresenting the technological progression of e-ticketing.


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## Scary Kitty (Jan 22, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> Well, the sample cities he gave were in Orange County, New York.


TransitGeek mentioned the city of Riverside, California, and the annoyance of having to go to Orange County from there in his post; if you look at his profile, his location is listed as RIV (Riverside, CA). Cho Cho Charlie is the one who listed those other cities in New York; he must have thought TransitGeek was also located in New York, as his question was directed to TransitGeek.


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## the_traveler (Jan 22, 2011)

Train2104 said:


> Scary Kitty said:
> 
> 
> > Huh? :blink: I believe TransitGeek was talking about Orange County in *California*, which is served by Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner.
> ...


It was Train2014 that gave the city names. TransitGeek never said any - and his location even says "Riverside, *CA*"!

What I don't understand is his statement



> but printing Amtrak tickets requires a visit to the station downtown (if they're regular tickets) or Orange County (if they're AGR tickets or require a staffed station


I am assuming by "downtown" he means LAUS. So why couldn't they print AGR tickets?




(I could be wrong - he may have meant downtown Riverside.)


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## TransitGeek (Jan 22, 2011)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> TransitGeek said:
> 
> 
> > However, the other major intercity transportation provider in this country (Greyhound) manages to enable print-at-home ticketing, and they probably serve an even more diverse and out-of-the-way set of rural communities. How is it that I can print my Greyhound tickets at home, but printing Amtrak tickets requires a visit to the station downtown (if they're regular tickets) or Orange County (if they're AGR tickets or require a staffed station)?
> ...


Orange County, California has staffed stations at Anaheim, Fullerton, and Santa Ana. I personally go to Santa Ana.



bretton88 said:


> Greyhound does NOT do e-ticketing. They have more staffed stations which makes it easier to take your confirmation and have an agent print the actual tickets. I have taken greyhound many times and never gotten an e-ticket. I always had to have the station agent print my ticket. Now for rural stops, the driver will take the confirmation if it's an emergency.





transit54 said:


> Just for clarification, Greyhound only allows e-ticketing at very select stations. I'd say e-ticketing is not permitted in at least 80% of their stations, if not more.
> 
> Comparatively, you're asking why can't Amtrak allow e-ticketing for passengers departing from BOS, NYP, WAS and no other stations. How effective would that be? I'd say, not very (can you imagine the confusion of traveling from NYP to PHL with an e-ticket, but not being able to get one back?). Amtrak, as others have pointed out, is working on an e-ticketing system to cover the whole system, but the raises a number of technical problems that Greyhound has completely sidestepped by dramatically limiting the coverage of their system (and mostly only allowing it on direct busses or busses that make minimal stops).
> 
> I'd rather a full blown e-ticketing system rather than the bare-bones e-ticketing that Greyhound decided on.


I stand corrected, you're right. Greyhound doesn't allow e-tickets at my station. However, the trip I'm planning this summer takes me through Canada, where I switch to Greyhound (thanks to the demise of the North American Rail Pass)- and I've got e-tickets for my travels between NFS, TWO and MTR. Of course, Greyhound has a staffed station here in Riverside, so it's never been much of an issue.



the_traveler said:


> Train2104 said:
> 
> 
> > Scary Kitty said:
> ...


"Downtown" is downtown Riverside- Riverside-Downtown station, RIV. It's a Metrolink station, and you can pick up Amtrak tickets from Metrolink machines with prior reservation. You can even buy tickets for the Surfliner, even though it doesn't stop there. However, for whatever reason you can't pick up AGR reward tickets- they can be mailed, or they can be picked up at a staffed station or Quick Trak machine. (Trust me, I tried last time I had AGR tickets.) And for other reasons unknown to me, USA Rail Pass tickets can only be picked up at staffed stations (not even mailed)- again, I've tried. I'm sure the current system works well for those who live near a staffed station, or even a Quick-Trak machine... but I'm a 45-minute train ride away from one, and Metrolink schedules really, really suck on the weekend. I can't imagine how much it'd suck living somewhere like VRV or NDL. (Seriously... and not just for the train thing.)


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## the_traveler (Jan 22, 2011)

TransitGeek said:


> I can't imagine how much it'd suck living somewhere like ... NDL. (Seriously... and not just for the train thing.)


Believe me, I agree!

I lived for 6 years about 20 miles north of NDL! I would rather drive to and leave the car in LV and take the Desert Wind! (This was when the DW ran.) I only left once from NDL - when "a friend" offered to drive me to catch the SWC at 2 AM! (Now that's a friend!)





There isn't even parking at "the station"! In fact there's not even a station building - the building is a BNSF freight office.


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## afigg (Jan 23, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> Honestly I have never used print at home ticketing for concerts, shows, or transit even when it is available. I honestly don't see the advantages, especially when there is never a line at the quick trak machines! I mean.. avoid the lines at the busy stations.. ok, but Quick Trak Machines are very convenient, and then you don't have to worry about losing your ticket on the way to the station! haha.


Yes, Quik-Traks are convenient and easy to use - if you are boarding at a station that has them. But many smaller Amtrak stations don't. Amtrak should deploy Quik-Traks at more stations, at least those that have a building to put the Quik-Traks in. Don't know if it is a cost issue or a maintenance & support issue that has kept Amtrak from putting Quik-Trak machines in more stations.


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## volkris (Jan 23, 2011)

The technology to do this sort of thing has been ubiquitous for a long, long time. That the train is moving is no excuse; how long ago did delivery companies start using nearly-always-connected handheld devices that report back within minutes of a package being delivered? Heck, today I walk up to a flee bag food cart in the middle of nowhere, swipe my credit card, and make an online payment to the vendor without a thought!

This is neither a technological marvel nor a hugely expensive undertaking. In fact it makes Amtrak the marvel for being a national service so stuck behind the times.

That Amtrak doesn't/can't offer print at home tickets speaks only to how uninterested or organizationally incapable Amtrak is in meeting the demands of an expanded market. It goes hand in hand with all of the other problems we see with the company.

Just look how long it took Amtrak to modernize its website. This is not a first rate company, and it's not because of a lack of funding.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 23, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > For the eleventy billionth time here, Amtrak is working on E-ticketing, which will allow this. It's a heck of a lot harder to do on a moving train than it is a fixed building.
> ...


The primary benefit of e-ticketing is it costs less to process fares. It is an investment that will provide savings immediately. Airline estimates are that e-ticketing saves $10 per passenger. Even if that is high and the savings to Amtrak would be just $1, converting 25% of Amtrak fares to e-tickets would save Amtrak $7 million per year. I am willing to bet there are not too many initiatives that would have that kind of pay-back.

If e-tickets were rolled out at the 15 busiest stations, it would be available to 50% of all Amtrak passengers. An easy roll-out would be to just Acela. That would involve just a handful of stations but would still hit 2.3 million passengers, and those passenger would be one's who would find e-tickets most convenient. Each station would be equipped to transmit real-time data to the trains, so before the trains left the stations, current reservation info would be loaded to on board devices. Then boarding passes would be scanned and validated on the train. At the next station the scanned data would be transmitted to the station while the station data was transmitted to the train. By the time the run was completed, every BP would have been scanned and put into the system as a paid and used fare. There would be no paper to handle, no bags of tickets being FedEx'd to central locations with rooms full of people for scanning days later. Passenger counts and train revenue would be almost real-time.

In 2011, that does not seem like a major undertaking. But, a given is that Amtrak is always about 15 years behind the technology curve.


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## bretton88 (Jan 23, 2011)

We know Amtrak is working on e-ticketing. They have even promised it to be available in select stations in 1Q 2011. My guess is that means the northeast. If the test goes well, full roll-out will follow.


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## daveyb99 (Jan 23, 2011)

Trogdor said:


> The main holdup for a print-at-home ticketing system has been (until recently) the need to have a device that can be in absolute constant contact with a computer server to verify the validity of a ticket.


You are correct. And the infrastructure is something to ponder at remote unstaffed stations. But staffed stations --- should be no problem.



Trogdor said:


> Also, it should be noted that even though airlines have been doing "e-ticketing" for over a decade, it has only been in the past couple of years that print-at-home boarding passes were available. The first e-tickets still required you to go to the ticket counter and get a boarding pass.


... but as mentioned earlier, the technology is over a decade old. AMTRAK can obtain the background knowledge to do it without re-hashing the entire journey.

I will wait patiently


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## Trogdor (Jan 23, 2011)

daveyb99 said:


> Trogdor said:
> 
> 
> > Also, it should be noted that even though airlines have been doing "e-ticketing" for over a decade, it has only been in the past couple of years that print-at-home boarding passes were available. The first e-tickets still required you to go to the ticket counter and get a boarding pass.
> ...


Amtrak already has the technology for e-ticketing. What they don't have, quite yet, is the immediate validation feature required for a print-at-home system.


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## TVRM610 (Jan 23, 2011)

PRR 60 said:


> TVRM610 said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan said:
> ...


Wait a minute.. e-ticketing and print at home tickets are 2 completely different things. Amtrak already has e-ticketing. (if your definition matched the one found here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_ticket ). Print at home ticketing does not save the kind of figures you are mentioning. The only things that print at home ticketing saves is the cost of the paper stock, since the quick trak machines and station agents will still have to be hired where they are, even if print at home tickets are available.

For example... Amtrak Station in Birmingham currently has a station agent on duty, in addition to a quick trak machine in the lobby. Neither of these can go away once print at home ticketing is available. So the only money being saved is the ticket stock for those particular tickets.

I'm not against print at home ticketing... I'm just not seeing any major advantages.


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## PRR 60 (Jan 23, 2011)

TVRM610 said:


> Wait a minute.. e-ticketing and print at home tickets are 2 completely different things. Amtrak already has e-ticketing. (if your definition matched the one found here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_ticket ). Print at home ticketing does not save the kind of figures you are mentioning. The only things that print at home ticketing saves is the cost of the paper stock, since the quick trak machines and station agents will still have to be hired where they are, even if print at home tickets are available.
> 
> For example... Amtrak Station in Birmingham currently has a station agent on duty, in addition to a quick trak machine in the lobby. Neither of these can go away once print at home ticketing is available. So the only money being saved is the ticket stock for those particular tickets.
> 
> I'm not against print at home ticketing... I'm just not seeing any major advantages.


E-ticketing to me means that no paper ticket is produced at all. The ticket remains an electronic record from booking to travel. With e-tickets, the only paper is a zero-vaule boarding document that is validated at or immediately after boarding and is then discarded. Yes, Amtrak's CRS is set up for e-ticketing, and initially the reservation is held electronically, but it is still required to print a paper ticket for travel. Until they take the next step and provide the ability to travel without ever getting a paper tickets, Amtrak, from the passenger perspective, does not have e-ticketing.

The savings for e-ticketing, goes well beyond saving ticket stock. It saves all the post trip processing which now is entirely manual. Today the paper tickets are collected, bagged, and physically sent to processing centers where they are scanned. That is 28 million pieces of paper a year being sent around the country when the whole deal could be handled with a single scan on the train.


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## jis (Jan 23, 2011)

If I had my druthers, I'd rather not print anything ever. I'd rather download the appropriate document into my iPhone or other Smartphone and just have that scanned wherever it is needed, just like I do with Continental Airlines. This of course means that the document must have enough crypto stuff in it to authenticate the document, something I suspect any self-respecting print at home ticket system also has.


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## Auntie Gravity (Jan 23, 2011)

Given the current political climate in this country turning most definitely anti-rail, Amtrak will have far more pressing issues than e-ticketing in the next budget year...such as sheer survival of the national rail system. Discussing the virtues of e-ticketing seem rather pointless? hboy:


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## TransitGeek (Jan 23, 2011)

Auntie Gravity said:


> Given the current political climate in this country turning most definitely anti-rail, Amtrak will have far more pressing issues than e-ticketing in the next budget year...such as sheer survival of the national rail system. Discussing the virtues of e-ticketing seem rather pointless? hboy:


I highly doubt anything will happen to Amtrak in the next two years. Yes, we'll probably stop gaining funding. However, there are a lot of pro-rail Republicans (or at least pro-rail-in-their-district Republicans), and even if the Republican-controlled House were to manage to pass a bill cutting Amtrak funding, the Senate will surely not (considering the system runs in 46 states- that's 92 Senators with an incentive to keep the trains running).

Many will say that the House can simply choose not to allocate the funds, and then the funds won't be there- and, strictly speaking, this is true. However, this sort of thing rarely happens, because disagreements on the budget rarely produce government shutdowns (though we did see one in 1995). Both parties recognize that keeping the federal government running is a better than letting it grind to a halt, and so what usually happens is a "continuing resolution" will be passed, continuing the funding for any given program (or the government as a whole) at the previous year's funding levels until a budget agreement can be reached. Any budget that the Senate and President Obama can agree to will not defund the national rail system, and so we'll see one of two outcomes- a budget with very modest, mostly symbolic cuts that actually passes, or no budget at all for quite some time, and the government running on continuing resolutions until the next election.

I'm much more concerned about state-supported corridors and the California High-Speed Rail project- those come out of state budgets, which are tanking right now.


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