# Round-Trip Ticket required for Visas



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 16, 2015)

I'm curious to understand why most foreign visa applications require round-trip tickets and hotel reservations. What if the application is denied and then one can't go? There wouldn't be a full refund from the airline or hotel for the reservation.


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## Anderson (Apr 16, 2015)

Practices vary from country to country. The round-trip ticket requirement is (generally) to avoid someone ending up somewhere with no means of return to their point of origin. As to reservations, one thing I've been told is that a standard practice in Russia is for a travel agent to make a "fig leaf" reservation which is then cancelled once the visa is granted and normal reservations can be made.


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## rickycourtney (Apr 16, 2015)

Yeah but on the other hand, the country wants some reassurance that you can actually leave the country after your visit. They don't want you to stay forever, with no where to stay and no way to get home.

If you're concerned that your visa will be denied... pay the extra money for a refundable ticket. You can always cancel it later, take the refund and buy a cheaper non-refundable ticket.

Also you might consider seeing if a trip insurance policy covers your visa not being approved.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 16, 2015)

Well, I understand what's going on now, but I don't know if it's worth the effort for me to deal with it. I guess the best option would be to buy a refundable ticket, get the visa, cancel the ticket, and then book it again. If that flight gets super-expensive, though, that would be a bit tough. Similar problems with the hotels. Buying trip insurance might be a waste if the visa gets approved anyway (which I'm pretty sure it would if I tried to apply). I'm not sure how to request a "fig leaf."

What would you suggest? Any countries that don't require this?


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## railbuck (Apr 16, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Any countries that don't require this?


I've been to several dozen countries, and only once (Myanmar) had to get a visa in advance. Wikipedia has a helpful map of the entry requirements of various countries for US citizens.


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## rickycourtney (Apr 16, 2015)

According to Wikipedia... there are 174 countries and territories where Americans can travel visa-free or can receive a visa upon arrival. If you're traveling to one of these countries, you've got nothing to worry about. If you want to visit a country where a visa is required, you might want to enlist the help of a travel agent.

Trip insurance actually isn't a bad idea for any major non-refundable overseas trip. You're already spending a lot of money on the trip, you might as well spend a little more to protect your investment against the unexpected.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 16, 2015)

Interesting complaint considering that as an American you have an easier visa situation than 90% of the world's population. Consider for a moment that a US visa application requires a nonrefundable payment of $160 even if your visa is declined. Millions of foreigners have to pay this fee and jump through numerous bureaucratic hoops even when they're simply connecting through the US and never leaving the airport. Most visa complications Americans have to navigate today are the result of reciprocal penalties our own government initiated first.


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## jis (Apr 16, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Interesting complaint considering that as an American you have an easier visa situation than 90% of the world's population. Consider for a moment that a US visa application requires a nonrefundable payment of $160 even if your visa is declined. Millions of foreigners have to pay this fee and jump through numerous bureaucratic hoops even when they're simply connecting through the US and never leaving the airport. Most visa complications Americans have to navigate today are the result of reciprocal penalties our own government initiated first.


I agree. I get quite a chuckle each time an American complains about visa difficulties. They should all be forced to experience the wonders of getting a US visa. Been there, done that several times, before running the Green Card and Citizenship gauntlet. Many of my friends and relatives simply refuse to come to the US for that reason. My Australian and New Zelander friends prefer to fly to Europe via South America rather than touch any US airport. As far as tourist visas go US is about as stuck up as Russia is. A total pain in the butt. Well at least these days, after you have run the gauntlet you often get a 10 year multiple entry visa. back in the days you were handed a single entry visa after all the song and dance, which prevented you even from visiting Canada and then re-entering the US.

The mindless design of international airports in the US together with the odd visa policies is what makes it impossible for US airlines to be anything like the Middle East three, the East Asians or even any European airlines in terms of providing onward connecting service via a US airport.


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## caravanman (Apr 16, 2015)

At the end of the day, it depends where you want to go... if you can let us know, we may have country specific advice for you.

Most countries that do require a tourist visa, reasonably expect that you will go home again after your visit, or at least move on to another country, if not going directly home. Usually you don't have to give specific flight info in advance of applying for a visa, although they may ask which port (airport) you will arrive and leave from. You may have to provide an address in the country, or a hotel booking. Most web booking sites allow you to book a hotel room and cancel later at no charge.

Many application forms are more "scary" than they need be, sadly the tourism departments and the visa departments often don't seem to have the same objectives!

Ed


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## Anderson (Apr 16, 2015)

jis said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting complaint considering that as an American you have an easier visa situation than 90% of the world's population. Consider for a moment that a US visa application requires a nonrefundable payment of $160 even if your visa is declined. Millions of foreigners have to pay this fee and jump through numerous bureaucratic hoops even when they're simply connecting through the US and never leaving the airport. Most visa complications Americans have to navigate today are the result of reciprocal penalties our own government initiated first.
> ...


Well, part of the problem is that as far as I can tell there's not even an "international zone" at (for example) JFK, LAX, or some others like there is in Moscow (and I believe several other airports). If the US had something like that (where entry was granted as long as you were in possession of an onward ticket and weren't on a handful of those international watchlists) it would probably solve at least the transit issues.

Of course, having had to deal with border **** during my regular trips to/from Canada I've found myself with an ever declining respect for the various border situations.

...and of course, on top of all of that the US is generally a pain in the arse to deal with to the point that a lot of banks won't deal with US citizens (I'm actually waiting for, and looking forward to, the day when some significant country basically bars their banks from enforcing US financial regulations and gets backed up by a good portion of the world) and are apparently trying to back down any dealings with the US, period.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 16, 2015)

I'm not a US citizen, I'm a Chinese citizen living in the US with a Permanent Resident Card. Now you all know why I sometimes spoke like English was my second-language. But, importantly, instead of having a visa waiver to most countries, I need a visa to go pretty much anywhere outside the US, Canada, or Mexico.

I don't know which foreign country I would want to visit yet, but I'll update once I figure it out.


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## jis (Apr 16, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I'm not a US citizen, I'm a Chinese citizen living in the US with a Permanent Resident Card. Now you all know why I sometimes spoke like English was my second-language. But, importantly, instead of having a visa waiver to most countries, I need a visa to go pretty much anywhere outside the US, Canada, or Mexico.
> 
> I don't know which foreign country I would want to visit yet, but I'll update once I figure it out.


Whether you will need a visa or not depends on the Passport that you hold. The Green Card is completely irrelevant for any country other than the US and its immediate neighbors. That was one of my motivations for becoming a US citizen and then becoming an Overseas Citizen of India. This way I travel on a US Passport and get both the gains of visa waiver to a large number of countries and the OIC gives me visa free travel to India, where I go often. Before this I was spending way too much money on visa processing fees. Of course to travel to China I have to jump through all the requisite hoops each time  But most of Western and Central Europe, Israel, Southeast Asia, Japan, etc. is all visa free or visa on arrival, and that is also true for India, Bangladesh, and possibly Sri Lanka now. Of course as I said, I don't need a visa to enter India (well actually OIC gives you a lifelong multiple entry with no restrictions visa, technically speaking). anyway.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 16, 2015)

I know, a Green Card only allows me into Canada or Mexico. I plan to become a US citizen eventually, but before that happens, I'll need a visa to visit most places. As you know, getting a visa can be difficult and can require jumping through hoops.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 17, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I'm not a US citizen, I'm a Chinese citizen living in the US with a Permanent Resident Card. Now you all know why I sometimes spoke like English was my second-language. But, importantly, instead of having a visa waiver to most countries, I need a visa to go pretty much anywhere outside the US, Canada, or Mexico. I don't know which foreign country I would want to visit yet, but I'll update once I figure it out.


My bad. My (limited) understanding is that visa requirements for Chinese citizens are being relaxed over time. Not everywhere but in some countries anyway. So what's it like living in the US as a Chinese citizen? Any amusing stories or unexpected complications?


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 17, 2015)

SW: if you plan to become a US Citizen, why not get started? I've read that the average wait time period in some Districts ( is Texas) is up to 7 years, and the fees and paperwork involved increase regularly!

With the current " Bash immigrants" political climate I'd recommend getting started on the process ASAP!

And are Chinese Citizens allowed Dual Citizenship?


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## jis (Apr 17, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> SW: if you plan to become a US Citizen, why not get started? I've read that the average wait time period in some Districts ( is Texas) is up to 7 years, and the fees and paperwork involved increase regularly!
> 
> With the current " Bash immigrants" political climate I'd recommend getting started on the process ASAP!
> 
> And are Chinese Citizens allowed Dual Citizenship?


Well first he has to do 5 years on Green Card, unless he has married a US citizen, in which case it is 3 years. You can apply for citizenship only after you have done your required duty as Resident Alien.  If you have legal Green Card status, then there is relatively little to fear from any of the bash immigrant folks. They are mostly after undocumented aliens.

When the time comes, try to find some citizenship drive by some powerful politician instead of just run of the mill process. Those tend to go faster, sometimes exceedingly fast, depends on the power of the politician. 

I would be completely floored if China allows dual citizenship. India does not.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Apr 17, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> What would you suggest? Any countries that don't require this?


If the Visa issue is concerning you this much maybe working with a travel agent would be helpful. I have found in certain parts of the world some tour agencies can get things done that consulate webpages would suggest is impossible. I got a visa to visit Laos in under 24 hours from a tour company in Hanoi for a very reasonable fee.


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## jis (Apr 17, 2015)

Yup. I generally use either a tour agency or even just a document handling company when I need something done pronto. I wouldn't imagine dealing with the vagaries of the Indian or Chinese Consulate all by myself, though for the last time that I had to deal with the Indian Consulate in NY for getting my OCI status, there was no choice since back then they wanted you there in person a couple of times, interspersed with getting review and approval from the Home Ministry back in New Delhi! Don't know what it takes now, since I have foresworn dealing with them as far as I can. Just to avoid transferring my Lifelong visa to my current Passport, I carry along my ancient old canceled Passport with the visa in it whenever I go to India


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