# Dress code?



## D.P. Roberts (Aug 23, 2006)

I've read several posts stating that most people on trains dress very casually (i.e. sweats and t-shirts). Is this true for most LD trains?

I can't imagine that most people dress that way for dinner. Is there good reason to bring slacks and a dress shirt for breakfast, lunch, or dinner (especially if I don't need one for the rest of the trip)?


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## AlanB (Aug 23, 2006)

Well the choice is certainly your's, but I don't dress for dinner and neither do most passengers. I usually have a casual, button color shirt on, along with a pair of jeans when I head for the diner for dinner. Some people do dress a little better than me, but I don't think that I've ever seen anyone in really dressy cloths on Amtrak.

However many do come to dinner in just a T-shirt, tanktop, and such.


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## GG-1 (Aug 23, 2006)

Aloha

I work in the theater and even durring Symphonies and Opera I have witness dress from tatered t-shirts to formal tuxes.

May I suggest wear what you feel confortable in. The Diner during breakfast and lunch is about the same as any family resturant, at dinner like a better Family resturant

Enjoy


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## AlanB (Aug 23, 2006)

GG-1 said:


> May I suggest wear what you feel confortable in.


Seems like sound advice to me.


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## x-press (Aug 23, 2006)

Welcome to today's U.S. society. While I don't quite understand the old pictures I see of people going to the beach in long pants and sitting in their yard with a sweater and tie, even a 28-year-old like me sometimes thinks we've gone a bit too far the other way, now.

In any case, what the others have said is correct: In a time when people go to broadway shows in jeans, people wear ANYthing they feel like in an Amtrak diner. I watched a rather hairy guy sit down at a white-clothed table in jeans and basically an underwear shirt (a tank top, technically, but inappropriate even by tank top standards) on the Meteor a few years back. I wasn't on the train (just looking in the window), but I would have been annoyed if I was.


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## frychikn (Aug 24, 2006)

As long as you are neat and clean it is not a problem how you dress. I have been lucky in my train travels in that I haven't come in contact with anybody unclean or dressed like a slob. The only dress code rule I know of for sure is that you MUST wear shoes if not in your seat or sleeper compartment.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Aug 24, 2006)

x-press said:


> Welcome to today's U.S. society. While I don't quite understand the old pictures I see of people going to the beach in long pants and sitting in their yard with a sweater and tie, even a 28-year-old like me sometimes thinks we've gone a bit too far the other way, now.
> In any case, what the others have said is correct: In a time when people go to broadway shows in jeans, people wear ANYthing they feel like in an Amtrak diner.




I must say at 32yo I kinda feel the same way as "x-press" in this situation, though I guess this is all just a sign of the times.

But I will say this at least. Over here on "Silver Service" if you ever are (or have been) asked to politely to remove your hat/ballcap when in the dining car, you are most likely in the process of meeting (or already have met) me! OBS...


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## jamesontheroad (Aug 24, 2006)

Perhaps if Amtrak were to raise the standard of cuisine from the standard of a 'family restaurant' to something a little more sophisticated, people would dress smarter? 

*j*


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## Bill Haithcoat (Aug 24, 2006)

It is a good question and I am one of the ones on this board who was riding the trains back when it was, indeed, the custom to dress for dinner.

That would be especially true if you were in a sleeper. Folks in coach probably did not dress up , but then some of them did not eat in the diner anyway. Or.....maybe the stayed dressed up the whole time, do not really remember.

Then, the question became: do I stay dressed in a suit to spend the rest of the evening in the lounge car or dome or whatever or do I return to my room and change back to casual? And of course THEN have to change again later for bed.

Also, one was at one time expected to be reasonably well dressed to check into hotels. Sooooooooooo, that meant dressiing in a suit AGAIN before you deboarded the train.Checking out of hotels casual, however, was not a problem.

All of this clothes changing while hurtling along at 70, or 80 or plus mph!!!

We don't have it so bad today, after all, just dressing for bed. And, I am no style expert (throw books at me if you wish) but I don't think we had quite as good of a selection of what might be called "business casual" back then, which would be ok almost anywhere. I seem to recall the distinctions between being dressed up and not were sharper than they are today. I might be wrong about that.

BYW remember as pointed out on other posts here, there were very few showers on trains back then, so mostly all of this clothes changing also could involve so-called sponge baths. (the doing of which felt even more ridiculous than a real shower)

All of this in the past. You should be clean and decent, you don't want an undershirt with seventeen spills, etcetc, on it, you get the idea.


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 24, 2006)

IMHO....when you are on a LD train, you need to dress as comfortably as possible. About the only time I really get dressed "up" in life is to bury someone or Christmas Church services. I won't go to the Dining Car looking like a slob, I will at least be in baggy shorts, polo shirt (tucked in) and hair styled and combed. Otherwise, when I board at night, and relax in coach or a sleeper car, I'm usually in a hospital scrub suit (the pants are shorts) which is the most comfortable outfit I have.


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 24, 2006)

What I'm hearing here is really a discussion of dress from the standpoint of a sleeper passenger, who has a place to go (his compartment) to change comfortably, and a small suitcase to change from. And a shower. He/she has a place to hang clothes to get the wrinkles out. Coach passengers don't really have ANY of that. They are generally going to be wearing whatever they wore when they got on the train. Changing in a restroom at 70 mph isn't really fun, and can be messy, and even dangerous. And both sleeper and coach passengers eat at the same time in that diner. That all needs to be remembered before you start complaining about what people wear (ball caps excepted). And those coach passengers are the only ones bringing actual greenbacks into that diner system.


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## rmgreenesq (Aug 24, 2006)

Amtrak OBS Employee said:


> I must say at 32yo I kinda feel the same way as "x-press" in this situation, though I guess this is all just a sign of the times. But I will say this at least. Over here on "Silver Service" if you ever are (or have been) asked to politely to remove your hat/ballcap when in the dining car, you are most likely in the process of meeting (or already have met) me! OBS...


OBS... I'll be the one wearing the Red Sox ball cap in the diner on the Silver Star the week after labor day.  Actually, I'll probably have the cap in my hand as between my mother and the US armed forces, hat etiquette has been pretty much been hard wired into my brain.

As to clothing customs and etiquette in the pre-Amtrak, pre-airline days, I'd be happy to talk to my grandmother and father about this. My grandmother is well into her 90's. She and my grandfather were the first members of my family tree to make it to the middle class. She rembmbers the great depression and world war 2 like it was yesterday. Always the social butterfly, she would know the fashion rules and customs of train travel back when it was the only way to travel.

My father worked for the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad in Kansas City as a young man in the 1950s. I'm not sure what he did for them or even if he had any passenger contact, but there is no harm in asking. He might also have some insights.

They are both on the west coast where it is a little before 7:00 am. I'll call them later today.

Rick


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## Bill Haithcoat (Aug 24, 2006)

rmgreenesq said:


> Amtrak OBS Employee said:
> 
> 
> > I must say at 32yo I kinda feel the same way as "x-press" in this situation, though I guess this is all just a sign of the times.
> ...


It will be interesting to see what your grandparents say. Especially if they remember the open wndow non-air conditioned steam powered trains. Wonder what people wore then, knowing well that they would get dirty? Surely it was casual.

Guess times were already changing by the time I came along. To even feel like I had a choice to switch back and forth between dress and casual must have meant a relaxng of the rules. I suppose my first sleeper rides were about 1965, about 20 or so years old. I don't remember what I wore iin coach,probably casual.


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## trainflyer (Aug 24, 2006)

I usually am wearing a suit and tie when I board, and I will leave the tie on until after dinner. The second day probably just the shirt and trousers. A good friend with whom I've taken the EB likes to wear kitten heels on the train (she usually wears high heels, but that's a bit much for Amtrak). I think passengers boarding directly from work in Chicago and NYC are more likely to be in a suit, as that is more of a standard dress code in those cities.


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## Chatter163 (Aug 24, 2006)




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## Bill Haithcoat (Aug 24, 2006)

Chatter163 said:


>



Looks familiar. Tell us the date and the railroad.


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## Palmland (Aug 24, 2006)

AmtrakWPK said:


> What I'm hearing here is really a discussion of dress from the standpoint of a sleeper passenger, who has a place to go (his compartment) to change comfortably, and a small suitcase to change from. And a shower. He/she has a place to hang clothes to get the wrinkles out. Coach passengers don't really have ANY of that. They are generally going to be wearing whatever they wore when they got on the train. Changing in a restroom at 70 mph isn't really fun, and can be messy, and even dangerous. And both sleeper and coach passengers eat at the same time in that diner. That all needs to be remembered before you start complaining about what people wear (ball caps excepted). And those coach passengers are the only ones bringing actual greenbacks into that diner system.


This a good argument to have separate dining for sleeper and coach passengers. Generally I think coach passengers want more of an inexpensive quick service meal - maybe along the lines of the old lunch counter cars where the kids can run around and you can get in and out fast. Because of the big bucks sleeper passengers spend, they want more of the traditional dining car experience. To me that means dressing up a bit with khaki pants, collared shirt and maybe even a sport jacket for dinner. I would certainly ban hairy guys (or anyone) in tank tops and gym attire before being upset with folks wearing caps.


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## printman2000 (Aug 24, 2006)

Palmland said:


> This a good argument to have separate dining for sleeper and coach passengers.


On the Cap Limited they sat all sleeper passengers on one side of the servers area and all coach passengers on the other.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2006)

I have never seen anyone in a tank top in the dining car, but I have sure seen some very casual ensembles - including baseball caps - backwards, sideways and pulled down over the eyes. Sloppy dress is certainly not limited to coach passengers - sports warm up pants and sweat shirts look good on some people, but if it is a XXXL/XXXXL - please eat at your seat or in your room.

Most of the passengers I have observed have been dressed in casual attire - but seldom have a I seen a sports coat of suit and tie - unless it is a breakfast meal - on a early arrival into the destination. I will almost always have on a suit/blazer and tie when arriving into New York or Washington, since I am going directly to meetings - however if I am going to Miami or some other warm weather climate - an open dress shirt and a sports coat will do.


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## Anthony (Aug 24, 2006)

If the coach passenger has been onboard for a couple of days and hasn't had access to a shower, the cap could be the solution for a bad hair day!


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## someguyintheusa (Aug 24, 2006)

Only person I've ever seen dress up for meals is a minister that put on slacks and a blazer for dinner.

I should point out he was also drinking bloody mary's with his wife at 1030AM in the lounge car :blink:


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 24, 2006)

After years of wearing uncomfortable high heels, nylons, suits, dresses, earrings, necklaces, both in the office and when traveling, I am so very happy to be retired and not have to wear all that uncomfortable "professional looking" gear.

You'll find me in jogging outfits, sweats, and jeans. Broke and having no high wages anymore, you'll also find me in coach. In the same clothes I wore when I got on the train. Let's face it, there's no place to freshen up in coach.


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## RailFanLNK (Aug 24, 2006)

Here in Nebraska we call it a "hat shower". Thats what it is called when you wake up, brush the teeth and throw a cap on your greasy hair as you stroll out the door 5 minutes after waking up! :lol:


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## Windy City LSA (Aug 24, 2006)

On a training trip on the Texas Eagle, the LSA was all wound up on the topic of tank tops. Although there is no Amtrak rule prohibiting them, he claimed he would ask passengers in tank tops to go change. On the way home, I actually got to see him do it. It was a huge pet peeve of this guy!

On the subject of hats...In the Amtrak employee "bible", I for some odd reason retained to memory a "rule" where for reasons of "civility", (I love that word!!) Conductors were to remove their hats when passing through the Dining Car. So I'd always be watching them.  I really liked it when they did. It's such a gentlemanly gesture. I would estimate maybe 80% of them actually would remove their hats when seated there or passing throgh. Maybe the rest of them skipped that chapter. :lol:


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## 1702 (Aug 24, 2006)

Palmland said:


> AmtrakWPK said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm hearing here is really a discussion of dress from the standpoint of a sleeper passenger, who has a place to go (his compartment) to change comfortably, and a small suitcase to change from. And a shower. He/she has a place to hang clothes to get the wrinkles out. Coach passengers don't really have ANY of that. They are generally going to be wearing whatever they wore when they got on the train. Changing in a restroom at 70 mph isn't really fun, and can be messy, and even dangerous. And both sleeper and coach passengers eat at the same time in that diner. That all needs to be remembered before you start complaining about what people wear (ball caps excepted). And those coach passengers are the only ones bringing actual greenbacks into that diner system.
> ...


There are lots of folks (and their kids) traveling coach who manage to maintain a neat appearance thruout their trips (we're talking LD here). There are just as many sleeping car passengers who look like bums.

If you think you can tell by a person's appearance whether they're traveling coach or sleeper, you're delusional. If one is traveling Superliner coach, there are roomy restrooms where one can sit to change clothes. And washing up is simple enough also. On the other hand, many sleeping car passengers (yes, MANY) never use the shower facilities.

I completely agree with WPK's comment about the coach passengers putting cash into the system. As long as Amtrak is taxpayer-funded, there should never be separate dining service for coach and sleeping car passengers. Most coach passengers who patronize the dining car want to come in and have a nice meal experience also. Plus, this BS of "sleepers on one side, coach on the other" in a Superliner diner is just that, total BS. I have seen coach passengers put on a waiting list when there were seats available on the "sleeping car side". Sleeper passengers getting first shot on the meal reservations is OK, but that's as far as the diner discrimination should go.....and it is discrimination, no matter how you want to dress it up.


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## 1702 (Aug 24, 2006)

Windy City LSA said:


> On a training trip on the Texas Eagle, the LSA was all wound up on the topic of tank tops. Although there is no Amtrak rule prohibiting them, he claimed he would ask passengers in tank tops to go change. On the way home, I actually got to see him do it. It was a huge pet peeve of this guy!
> On the subject of hats...In the Amtrak employee "bible", I for some odd reason retained to memory a "rule" where for reasons of "civility", (I love that word!!) Conductors were to remove their hats when passing through the Dining Car. So I'd always be watching them.  I really liked it when they did. It's such a gentlemanly gesture. I would estimate maybe 80% of them actually would remove their hats when seated there or passing throgh. Maybe the rest of them skipped that chapter. :lol:



Yep, in the days of OBS Chiefs, one of ours on the Sunset would make the announcement, "No tank tops in the dining car, shirts with sleeves, please". At least a sleeved shirt provides some barrier to the underarm odor of your fellow diners mixing with the aroma of your meal.

Removal of hats when passing thru the dining car is railroad tradition, fortunately carried on by Amtrak.

Kudos to the conductors who care enough to observe the rule.


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## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Aug 24, 2006)

1702 said:


> There are lots of folks (and their kids) traveling coach who manage to maintain a neat appearance thruout their trips (we're talking LD here). There are just as many sleeping car passengers who look like bums.If you think you can tell by a person's appearance whether they're traveling coach or sleeper, you're delusional. If one is traveling Superliner coach, there are roomy restrooms where one can sit to change clothes. And washing up is simple enough also. On the other hand, many sleeping car passengers (yes, MANY) never use the shower facilities.
> 
> I completely agree with WPK's comment about the coach passengers putting cash into the system. As long as Amtrak is taxpayer-funded, there should never be separate dining service for coach and sleeping car passengers. Most coach passengers who patronize the dining car want to come in and have a nice meal experience also. Plus, this BS of "sleepers on one side, coach on the other" in a Superliner diner is just that, total BS. I have seen coach passengers put on a waiting list when there were seats available on the "sleeping car side". Sleeper passengers getting first shot on the meal reservations is OK, but that's as far as the diner discrimination should go.....and it is discrimination, no matter how you want to dress it up.




Very well said! I couldn't agree with you more on this one my friend! B) OBS...


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## sentinal (Aug 25, 2006)

i for one will be wearing a polo shirt and jeans for my meals on the capital limited and silver star this weekend. i for one may now hold up the high standards of my grand father when it comes to dinning out. but i think some standards need to be kept


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 25, 2006)

A polo shirt and jeans sounds pretty casual to me. As far as how my grandfathers dressed when going out to eat, they were gone before I arrived on this side of the sod. However, my father always wore a suit and tie when we went out to eat.

I'm all for casual. This is today. It is not my grandfather's time and it is not my father's time.

But I do draw the line on those "muscle" tee's. They're good for the beach, but not at a restaurant.

Back to the inconvenience of trying to change when you are a coach passenger, yes, there are rooms on the lower level where you can change for dinner. But think about it, do you really want to strip down in one of those bathrooms? After a few hours, every one I've seen has dirty, used paper towels strewn all over the floor, sink, etc. Where do you place your clothes? On that stinken toilet seat? On that wet, filthy sink?

No thanks. I'll live in my own germs before I'll take someone else's.


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## frj1983 (Aug 25, 2006)

Everydaymatters said:


> A polo shirt and jeans sounds pretty casual to me. As far as how my grandfathers dressed when going out to eat, they were gone before I arrived on this side of the sod. However, my father always wore a suit and tie when we went out to eat.
> I'm all for casual. This is today. It is not my grandfather's time and it is not my father's time.
> 
> But I do draw the line on those "muscle" tee's. They're good for the beach, but not at a restaurant.
> ...



EverydayMatters,

If the car is a Superliner, there is a table that you can lower(directly above the toilet). It's large and you can spread things out on it. Does anyone know whether these were meant to be diaper changing tables? My problem would be trying to change shoes & socks with a dirty floor...how would one do that without stepping in some of the dirt that exists on those floors?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2006)

These last discussions about changing clothes are absolutely laughable. Have you never changed clothes in a restricted/dirty area? How about bringing your luggage to place things on and then using paper towels from the bathroom to stand on and then simply change your clothes - after placing your dirty clothes on top of your luggage to keep them away from all that dirt!!! 

People do things like this all the time in smaller and stranger areas than an Amtrak coach bathroom. Try changing clothes in the middle of the ocean on a small sailboat with water sloshing around at your feet and the wind blowing hard enough to keep the sails full. :blink:


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## 1702 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guest said:


> These last discussions about changing clothes are absolutely laughable. Have you never changed clothes in a restricted/dirty area? How about bringing your luggage to place things on and then using paper towels from the bathroom to stand on and then simply change your clothes - after placing your dirty clothes on top of your luggage to keep them away from all that dirt!!!
> People do things like this all the time in smaller and stranger areas than an Amtrak coach bathroom. Try changing clothes in the middle of the ocean on a small sailboat with water sloshing around at your feet and the wind blowing hard enough to keep the sails full. :blink:



Laughable is right! Superliner I coaches have a men's dressing area with a small bench seat & an almost-full-length mirror; a wall separates it from the toilet area. The ladies' lounge has a bench seat & a vanity with two sinks; the toilet is in a separate annex. The accessible ("handicapped") restroom is roomy as well.

Unfortunately there's no men's dressing area in Superliner II coaches, but the accessible restroom is HUGE.

The ladies' lounge in those cars has two stools instead of a bench seat, a double vanity, blah, blah, blah.

All the facilities have coat hooks on the doors, walls, or both. There are diaper-changing tables in all restrooms except the accessible restrooms. These are convenient for clothes, toiletries, etc.

If one can't figure out how to change clothes & "spruce up" in those facilities, then perhaps more assistance is required than can be provided on this forum.


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## Everydaymatters (Aug 25, 2006)

Well, yes, I suppose a coach passenger could get the paper towels and the soap supplied by Amtrak to scrub the floors and sinks and then use the paper towels to dry the countertops and the floor. Then go and get your suitcase and hope nobody has slopped the place up while you're getting your suitcase. Then change clothes. 

Let's face it folks, those washrooms are pretty bad in coach. I invite anyone who has been pampered by always going first class to use the coach washrooms for the entire length of a LD trip. You'll soon change your tune. I guarantee it.

Thanks, but no thanks. As I said before, I'll keep my own germs.

Laughable? No, I don't think so. The subject of filthy Amtrak washrooms has been brought up before. It's a given: if you ride coach in Amtrak, the washrooms are just a step above a pig pen.


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## 1702 (Aug 25, 2006)

Everydaymatters said:


> Let's face it folks, those washrooms are pretty bad in coach. I invite anyone who has been pampered by always going first class to use the coach washrooms for the entire length of a LD trip. You'll soon change your tune. I guarantee it.


You're right..........If you guarantee it, it must be so. End of story.


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 26, 2006)

I'd really have to agree that the bathroooms in coach on LD trains, especially single-level trains, usually end up pretty disgusting pretty quick. Just about all surfaces end up wet, and the floor can be particularly disgusting. Not someplace you want your bare feet OR the clothes you are changing into or out of to be in contact with. And I don't even want to think about how many SENIORS that would try to change in a coach bathroom on a moving train would fall and fracture something, and then successfully sue Amtrak, if you tried to institute a dress code and then not provide a clean and safe place for them to change. If you want coach passengers to be clean and presentatble in the diner, provide them with a shower, a place to store and hang clothes, and a clean and dry place to change. Until you do that, you don't have any right to complain. Especially since, as has been pointed out, frequently the first class passengers are so UN-presentable that you can't tell who's from a sleeper and who's from a coach. And the coach passengers, again, are the ones actually putting genuine fresh dollars into the diners' financial system. So the more passengers from coach that use the diners, the better the chance that diners won't go extinct.


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## Palmland (Aug 27, 2006)

1702 said:


> Sleeper passengers getting first shot on the meal reservations is OK, but that's as far as the diner discrimination should go.....and it is discrimination, no matter how you want to dress it up.


Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for better service. Same as first class on an airline, a suite in resort hotel or whatever. Anyone who has the money expects to get value for that extra expense. Thats not discrimination, thats economics.

And that premium paid for a sleeper generates a lot more cash than $10 for a hamburger. I am sure a portion of the room charge is allocated back to meal revenue.

And yes it's sad but true that many sleeper passengers have forgotten the basics of hygiene and a little pride in appearance.


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## The Metropolitan (Aug 27, 2006)

I truly don't think that forcing passengers into different meal acommodations based on their ticket class and the assumptions of what type of dining experience we'd presume they'd like is at all a good thing for Amtrak.

The current system offers people a choice between the snack counter in the sightseer and the dining car. One thing I think I WOULD like to see is an easier availability for sleeper car patrons to forego a dining car meal if they only want something from the snack counter.

Some points to ponder:

*If I board an LD train for a 10 hour daylight trip, I very well may want the railroad dining experience even though I have no need at all for sleeper accomodations.

*As well, I may be a patron riding in Sleeper with adolescent kids who want meals at unusual times. I may want to eat in the diner, but they may be more likely to want some quick "junk food" from the snack counter to enjoy in the sightseer.

*That $10/average meal from each coach passenger x 24 seats x 3 seatings/meal x 3 meals/day comes out to well over $2000 of additional revenue in a day.

Sleeper Car fares entitle the rider to private accomodations and beds for sleeping, "free" juice, coffee, and sodas in your sleeper, showers, and "free" meals, as well as first crack at meal times, so it's not as if the diner is the only "value" added.

I like to ride the LD trains myself, but will not always have the funds nor need to foot for a sleeper. One thing I do want is a good meal served in something akin to the railroad tradition. The last time I was on the Capitol Limited from PGH to WAS in coach, it was the diner experience that really seemed to be *THE* thing that impressed most of the first time riders into looking to take the train for their next trip.

Take this amenity away from me and force me to use the snack bar and I'll be far more likely to book that next train trip in the sky. :unsure:


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 27, 2006)

> Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for better service.


I think I would rather say "Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for MORE service, and MORE serviceS." *The coach passenger isn't entitled to **LOUSY** service, just **fewer** services. No* shower. *no* bed, *no* free juice, *no* free coffee, *no* private or semi-private lavatory. *N*o attendant to turn down a bunk. *No* private room in which to store a small carry-on. *No* place to hang clothes to de-wrinkle them. *No* private, dry, clean, safe, room in which to change clothes. *No* "free" meals. *No* private compartment at all. All of which the sleeper passenger DOES have. That *doesn't* equate to requiring Amtrak to give coach passengers poor service, lousy service, just because the sleeper passenger paid more money. *But when they are paying their own way (and helping subsidize the dining service itself, really) in the diner, the coach passenger should get exactly the same **level** and **quality** of service that the sleeper passenger does.*


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## MrFSS (Aug 27, 2006)

AmtrakWPK said:


> > Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for better service.
> 
> 
> I think I would rather say "Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for MORE service, and MORE serviceS." *The coach passenger isn't entitled to **LOUSY** service, just **fewer** services. No* shower. *no* bed, *no* free juice, *no* free coffee, *no* private or semi-private lavatory. *N*o attendant to turn down a bunk. *No* private room in which to store a small carry-on. *No* place to hang clothes to de-wrinkle them. *No* private, dry, clean, safe, room in which to change clothes. *No* "free" meals. *No* private compartment at all. All of which the sleeper passenger DOES have. That *doesn't* equate to requiring Amtrak to give coach passengers poor service, lousy service, just because the sleeper passenger paid more money. *But when they are paying their own way (and helping subsidize the dining service itself, really) in the diner, the coach passenger should get exactly the same **level** and **quality** of service that the sleeper passenger does.*


Of course, what you say makes sense, but all railroads don't operate that way. On _The Canadian_ coach passengers aren't even allowed in the swank sleeping car dining cars. They have their own, not as nice, have to pay for it, dining facility. so, they don't get the same service!


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## rmgreenesq (Aug 27, 2006)

MrFSS said:


> Of course, what you say makes sense, but all railroads don't operate that way. On _The Canadian_ coach passengers aren't even allowed in the swank sleeping car dining cars. They have their own, not as nice, have to pay for it, dining facility. so, they don't get the same service!


Amtrak does this too. I recall reading in one of the travelogues somehwere on the net that the auto train also has seperate dining cars for coach and sleeper pax. I'm not sure if there is a differnce in the food served between the dining cars. However the travelogue reported that the coach passengers were eating off of plastic plates whereas the sleeper passengers had china plates. That's one difference.

I've never ridden the auto train, so this is internet hearsay. It may or may not be true. I'm looking forward to my first auto train trip next June. I have a conference in Orlando. I'm bringing the fam and will stay an extra day or two to visit the house of mouse.

Rick


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## MrFSS (Aug 27, 2006)

rmgreenesq said:


> Amtrak does this too. I recall reading in one of the travelogues somehwere on the net that the auto train also has seperate dining cars for coach and sleeper pax. I'm not sure if there is a differnce in the food served between the dining cars. However the travelogue reported that the coach passengers were eating off of plastic plates whereas the sleeper passengers had china plates. That's one difference.
> I've never ridden the auto train, so this is internet hearsay. It may or may not be true. I'm looking forward to my first auto train trip next June. I have a conference in Orlando. I'm bringing the fam and will stay an extra day or two to visit the house of mouse.
> 
> Rick


I'm pretty sure you are correct. Amtrak Autotrain is the only Amtrak where coach has the meals included in the ticket price, though be it the service may not be as nice as sleeper service.


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## AlanB (Aug 27, 2006)

rmgreenesq said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, what you say makes sense, but all railroads don't operate that way. On _The Canadian_ coach passengers aren't even allowed in the swank sleeping car dining cars. They have their own, not as nice, have to pay for it, dining facility. so, they don't get the same service!
> ...


Rick,

You are correct on the Auto Train (AT) there is a seperate dining car for coach passengers, sometimes 2 depending on passenger load, and one dining car for sleeping car passengers. However, there are also some differences between the AT and the Canadian. First, meals are included in the price for all passengers. It's included/hidden as part of the charge for hauling your automobile. Second, on the AT you are basically a captive audience. Unlike the Canadian, the AT makes no stops enroute. Or at least no stops where a passenger can disembark from the train. This is a late night fueling stop, as well as an operating crew change at that stop.

Now turning to the differences between the sleeper's dining car and the coach dining car(s). First, there are differences in the types of food served. The quality of the food is better in the sleeper dining car as opposed to the coach diner(s). A sleeping car passenger is far more likely to find Filet Mignon medalions on his/her menu, while a coach passenger would find a cheaper cut of steak in their dining car.

At one point free wine was only served in the sleeper diner, however I've since been told that they are now serving free wine in the coach diner too. I've not witnessed that myself, but I have no reason to doubt it either. I wouldn't be shocked though to find out that it's a cheaper wine in coach.

On the other hand, I've not heard the rumor about plastic being used in the coach diner(s). If that is true, then it's a recent developement, as two years ago when I happened to stroll through the entire train, the tables were set with glass.


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## AmtrakWPK (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm have no idea, personally, what the Canadian rail economics picture looks like, and how their system is structured financially, so I really can't comment on whether Canadian rail coach passengers help to prop up the finances of the sleeper passengers' dining facilities, as the Amtrak coach passengers apparently do. And the "separate but equal" (now why does that ring a bell...?) facilities on Auto-Train is probably of limited utility in any comparison to other Amtrak trains because Auto-Train is truly unique.


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## 1702 (Aug 27, 2006)

MrFSS said:


> AmtrakWPK said:
> 
> 
> > > Come on, when you pay a $1000 above coach price, you are paying for better service.
> ...


That doesn't seem to be accurate. In the off-peak season, the dining car IS available to "Comfort Class" (coach) passengers. In peak season, there is a cafe with table service in the Skyline car for "Comfort Class" (sounds better than "coach", yes?) passengers. This is from VIA's website. From what I've read about the "Canadian", the number of sleeping cars increases dramatically in peak season, so I'd imagine it just isn't possible to accomodate all passengers in one dining car.

Interestingly, nowhere on VIA's website did I come across the term "First Class"......it's "Sleeper Class", which on the "Canadian" is called "Silver & Blue Service". I've always thought Amtrak would be better served to dispense with the "First Class" terminology & go back to calling it something similar to "Sleeper Class". IIRC, pre-Amtrak one was either a "Pullman passenger" or "Sleeping car passenger", and the term "first class" wasn't used. Corrections welcome. Some lines called coaches "chair cars".


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## MrFSS (Aug 27, 2006)

1702 said:


> MrFSS said:
> 
> 
> > AmtrakWPK said:
> ...


I stand corrected. When I rode _The Canadian_ last year it may have been the start of peak season, even though it was mid-May. Our train had 29 cars of which 3 were sleeper class dining cars and they had the cafe in the first dome for caoch. I was able to go to coach, but there was a big sign on the door coming back that said sleeping car passengers only beyond this point.

Pictures from that trip are: *HERE*


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## GG-1 (Aug 28, 2006)

rmgreenesq said:


> I'm looking forward to my first auto train trip next June. I have a conference in Orlando. I'm bringing the fam and will stay an extra day or two to visit the house of mouse.
> 
> Rick


Family, House of Mouse, better plan 5 days B)


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## rmgreenesq (Aug 28, 2006)

GG-1 said:


> Family, House of Mouse, better plan 5 days B)


Actually, I'm planning seven days. I talked my folks out of a week of timeshare time in Orlando for the week of the conference. We'll head down on Saturday afternoon and arrive in Orlando Sunday morning. My conferene starts on Thursday and runs through Sunday. I usually leave Saturday night.

The only thing stopping me from booking the autotrain tikets is that I have applied to speak at this conference. If I'm accepted as a speaker, I'm not sure where they would put me on the schedule.

Rick


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