# Transport Security, CBP Inspection, and State Alcohol Laws



## adamj023

I noticed that some airports like Boston Logan international are still presecurity for some connection flights. They are working on the post security connector from Terminal B to C now as the connector from C to E was already done. Having post security connections saves a lot of time for those who only are in the airports to connect to other flights.

Which airports are post security or will be soon post security for connection flights?


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## Exvalley

adamj023 said:


> Which airports are post security or will be soon post security for connection flights?


For major hubs? Just thinking off the top of my head - Atlanta and Dallas are.

Not Chicago or New York JFK.


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## BCL

Seattle. All the terminals (including the island ones) are linked through their three underground train systems post security. The island terminals don't even have their own security. Many advise checking which security line has the shortest wait and then just get to the terminal via the train. I figured this out when I tried to hit the United Club with my AGR Select Plus membership back in 2015. If I had to leave and check in I wouldn't have been able to enter unless maybe they let me back in with a call to the club.







SFO and OAK all have some terminals linked together, although there may be a lot of walking. Oakland is only two terminals, but they have this walkway that links them together.











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## AmtrakBlue

PHL (Philadelphia) - all terminals are accessible post security


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## Devil's Advocate

Post security is an odd way of writing this. When I enter an airport I'm "post security" when boarding an aircraft but I'm also "post security" when I'm done arriving from an international flight. And what's a pre-security connection? I would say _airside connections between terminals_ to be clear. My question is why does the US not allow international airside connections or employ international exit screening? Are these two facts related?


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## adamj023

Exvalley said:


> For major hubs? Just thinking off the top of my head - Atlanta and Dallas are.
> 
> Not Chicago or New York JFK.



La Guardia is being redone except the Marine terminal. The Marine terminal seems like its migrating to Spirit and charter jets and private jets leave from there. Jetblue will eventually move Boston to terminal B so it will have all connections in one place. Marine terminal will have different security. Terminal B is all integrated for security. I don’t know if Delta will be integrated with single security once its new terminal is done so you could transfer between B and C post security or not but most connections will be on same alliance partners so all Delta will be in the same place for connections and Jetblue and AA or United and Air Canada also together. Canada flights are preclearance.


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## Exvalley

Devil's Advocate said:


> Post security is an odd way of writing this. When I enter an airport I'm "post security" when boarding an aircraft but I'm also "post security" when I'm done arriving from an international flight.


It was quite obvious what the OP meant. They were looking for airports where you do not have to exit the airside area and then re-clear TSA security when you transfer to a connecting flight.


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## jis

Whether you are airside or not after exiting the international arrival processing center differs from airport to airport and even terminal to terminal at the same airport.


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## DCAKen

Washington National (DCA) just reconfigured its security checkpoints so that all the terminals in the main building (directly accessible from the metro) are behind security. Terminal A (serving Air Canada, Frontier, and Southwest) is still separate and requires re-clearing security.


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## BCL

Devil's Advocate said:


> Post security is an odd way of writing this. When I enter an airport I'm "post security" when boarding an aircraft but I'm also "post security" when I'm done arriving from an international flight. And what's a pre-security connection? I would say _airside connections between terminals_ to be clear. My question is why does the US not allow international airside connections or employ international exit screening? Are these two facts related?



Every airport I've been to in the United States forces arriving international passengers to go through customs first. Always just blocked off where passengers can't go straight into the terminal like with a domestic flight. And I've departed and arrived on a domestic flight at an "international" terminal. For some reason, Alaska Airlines used the international terminal at SFO for its domestic flights, and I've taken domestic flights where the plane arrived from another country and they didn't reposition the plane at a domestic terminal.


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## adamj023

La Guardia is running a post security bus transfer for Delta terminal till new terminal is ready. They say 7 minute bus ride. Lots of airport construction is ongoing and seems to be getting better over time but still not ideal.


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## daybeers

I now only fly when it's crossing an ocean, and otherwise have only flown domestically for four segments, so this is fascinating to me. It amazes me passengers sometimes have to go through security checks again just to change planes!


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## jis

daybeers said:


> I now only fly when it's crossing an ocean, and otherwise have only flown domestically for four segments, so this is fascinating to me. It amazes me passengers sometimes have to go through security checks again just to change planes!


At many US airports you have to go through security check in order to transfer from an international arrival to a domestic departure.


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## Devil's Advocate

BCL said:


> Every airport I've been to in the United States forces arriving international passengers to go through customs first. Always just blocked off where passengers can't go straight into the terminal like with a domestic flight. And I've departed and arrived on a domestic flight at an "international" terminal. For some reason, Alaska Airlines used the international terminal at SFO for its domestic flights, and I've taken domestic flights where the plane arrived from another country and they didn't reposition the plane at a domestic terminal.


Some airports have international arrival terminals but to the best of my knowledge almost any terminal can support international departures.



daybeers said:


> I now only fly when it's crossing an ocean, and otherwise have only flown domestically for four segments, so this is fascinating to me. It amazes me passengers sometimes have to go through security checks again just to change planes!


Whoops, I misunderstood your meaning, disregard.



jis said:


> At many US airports you have to go through security check in order to transfer from an international arrival to a domestic departure.


Are there any homeland airports where this is not the case? Announcements and arrival paperwork make it seem like a universal requirement.


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## daybeers

jis said:


> At many US airports you have to go through security check in order to transfer from an international arrival to a domestic departure.


Right, I can understand that, but the terminals not being connected post-security for domestic connections is interesting. Does this happen often in other airports around the world?


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## jis

daybeers said:


> Right, I can understand that, but the terminals not being connected post-security for domestic connections is interesting. Does this happen often in other airports around the world?


I don't know about often since it is a relative term, but it is not particularly unheard of I would say. There are even cases where different terminal buildings are miles apart.


Devil's Advocate said:


> Some airports have international arrival terminals but to the best of my knowledge almost any terminal can support international departures.


That is my understanding too.


> Are there any homeland airports where this is not the case? Announcements and arrival paperwork make it seem like a universal requirement.


None that I have passed through but then I have passed through only a small proportion of airports with international arrivals.


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## Exvalley

There are two issues here with international arrivals:
1) Clearing immigration/customs;
2) Exiting the airside section of the terminal even if connecting to another flight.

All airports require you to do the former. Not all airports require you to do the latter.


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## jis

And then there are weird places like United's Terminal C in IAD which has a CBP facility and you cannot really go anywhere upon exiting it except into airside of the terminal. But the only way to get there is by crossing a TSA barrier.


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## Devil's Advocate

daybeers said:


> Right, I can understand that, but the terminals not being connected post-security for domestic connections is interesting. Does this happen often in other airports around the world?


Many airports have disconnected terminals but usually work around this with an airside tram or bus. Keep in mind that not many countries have the vast domestic network seen in the US so direct comparisons are limited.



jis said:


> And then there are weird places like United's Terminal C in IAD which has a CBP facility and you cannot really go anywhere upon exiting it except into airside of the terminal. But the only way to get there is by crossing a TSA barrier.


I'm surprised people with no connection would tolerate an extra security check just for the heck of it. Even worst-in-class IAH only requires people making connections to go through security again.


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## jis

Devil's Advocate said:


> I'm surprised people with no connection would tolerate an extra security check just for the heck of it. Even worst-in-class IAH only requires people making connections to go through security again.


Back then they were talking of providing a bus connection to the land side, but it was not in place yet. Maybe they did get around to it. As you know T-C is mid field with only connection to the main terminal air side via the people mover to get to which you have to walk several hundred yards away from the main terminal tog et to the station. Apparently there is a plan to build a new remote terminal near where the station has been built some day 

As I recall at London Heathrow they do not allow arriving passengers who are even just doing international transfer to go into the departure airside without going through security. I have also gone through international transfers in Frankfurt where I had to go through a security barrier to get from the arrival level to the departure level.


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## adamj023

Dulles has always been an airport which has lacked in progress. Some areas accelerate airport projects at a much quicker pace. The Port Authority Airports such as JFK, EWR and LGA have been slow to update but at least progress is being made unlike IAD. I doubt progress will be made there anytime soon.


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## Trogdor

My understanding of the issue is that when clearing customs you have to come into contact with your checked baggage. Checked bags don't get the same kind of screening that passengers and carryon bags do. Therefore, the area is no longer "sterile" and thus passengers and their carryons must be rescreened before boarding another plane.

Customs inspection is done at the port of entry, thus arriving from an international flight means your first US airport is where all of this occurs. There wouldn't be an easy way to ensure that inspections were done at your final destination (if that destination even had such capacity) if they allowed things to be checked straight through.

In the US, I don't know if it's simply that you cannot have international-to-international transfers that avoid Customs & Immigration by law, or if it's a de facto requirement based on the fact that no US airports are set up that way (and it really wouldn't make much sense to do so). There is no exit immigration in the US, so there would be no reason for airports to build large international departures areas with passengers segregated from domestic fliers. And if you don't have that segregation, then you basically have to force everyone through C&I.

Again, I don't know if (hypothetically) an airport could do this if they wanted to, but I'd be surprised that any airport in the US actually wants to. As mentioned above, the US domestic market is so large that airports don't really have the same level of dependence on international flights as in other parts of the world.


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## BCL

Devil's Advocate said:


> Some airports have international arrival terminals but to the best of my knowledge almost any terminal can support international departures.


Depends on the airport. But I was really referring to how they might have a side door that leads towards international baggage claim and customs. As far as I know, that's a strict requirement for international arrivals at any major airport. There are some general aviation airports where people can just get off a plane and then meet with customs, but certainly not at a major passenger airport.

They still need to be equipped for customs, and it gets kind of tricky having any kind of routing to international baggage claim and customs if a domestic terminal isn't built for that. I do remember when United Airlines started international flights out of SFO. United wanted to be able to use their primary domestic terminal for international departures for the convenience of their domestic passengers transferring to international flights. I don't believe that it was typically an issue because most international arrivals didn't typically continue on where they would be boarding. When a plane was prepped for an international departure they would move it to the international terminal. But the other issue was that the airport wanted the departing passengers at the international terminal because that was where the duty free shops were.


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## MARC Rider

One might think that a customs and immigration inspection might also include a security screening. On a number of my international arrivals, I had my bags opened anyway, and I had a rather detailed interview with pointed questions about where I had been previously. The Chinese X-ray all luggage, even if you're leaving the airport. (This is a plot point, by the way, in the Israeli film Noodle.) It would seem to me that after that, they could release the passengers to the general airside concourses without further security screening. They did, after all, have a security screening at their originating airport. It's possible that TSA is concerned that airport security in some foreign countries isn't all that good, but, then all of the TSA security theater isn't foolproof, either.


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## Trogdor

MARC Rider said:


> One might think that a customs and immigration inspection might also include a security screening. On a number of my international arrivals, I had my bags opened anyway, and I had a rather detailed interview with pointed questions about where I had been previously.



Immigration is concerned with the person’s admissibility into the country. Customs is concerned with the admissibility of the person’s belongings into the country (possibly subject to a certain tax).

AIrport security is concerned with making sure you don’t have things that are prohibited to carry onto an airplane. You could have a hunting knife, large bottle of liquid, etc., in your checked baggage and, as long as it doesn’t violate any customs regulations, you’re perfectly fine in their eyes. But you can’t bring those items past the security checkpoint.


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## BCL

Trogdor said:


> Immigration is concerned with the person’s admissibility into the country. Customs is concerned with the admissibility of the person’s belongings into the country (possibly subject to a certain tax).
> 
> AIrport security is concerned with making sure you don’t have things that are prohibited to carry onto an airplane. You could have a hunting knife, large bottle of liquid, etc., in your checked baggage and, as long as it doesn’t violate any customs regulations, you’re perfectly fine in their eyes. But you can’t bring those items past the security checkpoint.



The fact is that US CBP does all of the above. At least originally the US Customs Service was part of the Dept of Treasury and their primary purpose was the collection of customs duties. But like many things, they were in a convenient spot to look out for all sorts of things including border/port of entry controls, smuggling, agricultural checks, immigration, etc. The job itself didn't fit into any one category, but for whatever reason, they started with revenue collection.

They don't issue entry visas, which are the purview of the State Dept. They don't set the rules for agricultural inspection, but they have to know what people can and can't bring in. I have encountered USDA officers with sniffer dogs looking for contraband.

There are a few things though, including that any dangerous item might need to be declared - especially firearms.


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## Seaboard92

daybeers said:


> I now only fly when it's crossing an ocean, and otherwise have only flown domestically for four segments, so this is fascinating to me. It amazes me passengers sometimes have to go through security checks again just to change planes!



The worst is Russia even if you are doing a domestic connection you have to do security again. And it isn't really organized either.


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## lstone19

The last I knew, for United international arrivals at IAD, connecting passengers go to the midfield concourse C CBP facility while terminating passengers are taken to the main terminal CBP facility. So terminating passengers don’t need to go through security after CBP to get landside.

I have experience with making U.S. to Schengen connections at both AMS and FRA and at them as well as other Schengen airports, Immigration is handled at the connecting airport but Customs is dealt with at the final destination. At both AMS and FRA, since we did need to do anything with our checked baggage, there was no security recheck. You just dealt with Immigration and were on your way. Since travel within the EU is Customs exempt (the Schengen area is one area for Immigration purposes, the EU is one area for Customs - a county can be one but not the other (e.g. Norway is Schengen but not EU)), you do have a mix of passengers - some Customs exempt on arrival,some not. But Customs is much more low-key in the EU so if you have nothing to declare, you just walk on by. I have never been inspected by Customs in Europe. A green strip on the edge of the baggage tag identifies bags checked within the EU and exempt from EU Customs inspection.

(I’m retired from an airline and did station visits to three of our European stations. Understanding the passenger handling process was part of the reason for the station visits)


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## SwedeC

There are at least two locations overseas where US Customs & Immigration has full clearing offices. Thus, passengers going to the US are cleared there, and the flight lands as a domestic US flight. 
They are Dublin, Ireland and the island of Aruba.


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## jis

SwedeC said:


> There are at least two locations overseas where US Customs & Immigration has full clearing offices. Thus, passengers going to the US are cleared there, and the flight lands as a domestic US flight.
> They are Dublin, Ireland and the island of Aruba.


Currently there is US preclearance at the following international airports other than those in Canada:

Aruba
Freeport and Nassau, Bahamas
Bermuda
Abu Dhabi, UAE
Dublin and Shannon, Ireland
In addition, Qatar has applied to have a preclearance site at Doha.

In Canada the following have preclearance:

Calgary
Edmonton
Halifax
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg





__





Preclearance


Securing America's Borders



www.cbp.gov


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## Trogdor

BCL said:


> The fact is that US CBP does all of the above. At least originally the US Customs Service was part of the Dept of Treasury and their primary purpose was the collection of customs duties. But like many things, they were in a convenient spot to look out for all sorts of things including border/port of entry controls, smuggling, agricultural checks, immigration, etc. The job itself didn't fit into any one category, but for whatever reason, they started with revenue collection.
> 
> They don't issue entry visas, which are the purview of the State Dept. They don't set the rules for agricultural inspection, but they have to know what people can and can't bring in. I have encountered USDA officers with sniffer dogs looking for contraband.
> 
> There are a few things though, including that any dangerous item might need to be declared - especially firearms.



True that CBP does customs & immigration (in the past, there were two separate stops at many airports; one where they marked your blue form and the other where they collected the blue form. Also, Amtrak’s Cascades used to preclear Immigration at the station in Vancouver, but then the train would make a customs stop right at the border where they walked through the train and collected your declaration forms).

However, they don’t do airport security. While they *can* inspect your luggage, they don’t always do so (through dozens of international arrivals, I’ve only had them look at my bag once). The list of things permissible to bring into the country and the list of things permissible to bring onto a plane are not the same.

The point of my comment is that once you come into contact with checked luggage, the area is no longer sterile, and thus everyone must go through security again in order to go airside at a terminal.



jis said:


> In Canada the following have preclearance:
> 
> Calgary
> Edmonton
> Halifax
> Montreal
> Ottawa
> Vancouver
> Victoria
> Winnipeg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preclearance
> 
> 
> Securing America's Borders
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbp.gov



And Toronto. Also, I *think* the Victoria preclearance might actually be the harbor rather than the airport, for ferry crossings to the US. My memory on that is sufficiently vague, but, unless they built something very recently, I don’t think there was any space at the airport for a separate US departures area. Every time I flew into the US from YYJ I had to go through CBP on arrival.


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## jis

Trogdor said:


> And Toronto. Also, I *think* the Victoria preclearance might actually be the harbor rather than the airport, for ferry crossings to the US. My memory on that is sufficiently vague, but, unless they built something very recently, I don’t think there was any space at the airport for a separate US departures area. Every time I flew into the US from YYJ I had to go through CBP on arrival.


I just copied the list from the CBP site and forgot to copy Toronto.


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## BCL

Trogdor said:


> And Toronto. Also, I *think* the Victoria preclearance might actually be the harbor rather than the airport, for ferry crossings to the US. My memory on that is sufficiently vague, but, unless they built something very recently, I don’t think there was any space at the airport for a separate US departures area. Every time I flew into the US from YYJ I had to go through CBP on arrival.



I believe Victoria Airport doesn't have preclerance. There might be preclearance at Victoria Harbor with the Black Ball Ferry to Port Angeles.

EDIT: Yeah they've got it.





__





Frontline Black Ball Ferry Pre-Inspection


Securing America's Borders



www.cbp.gov





Been through preclearance once at Sidney, BC for the Washington State Ferries ride to Anacortes, WA. Got asked questions by an armed CBP officer in full uniform although we weren't searched. Some of the questions asked were about food. Apparently we could bring produce back as long as it was labelled as being from the United States. We had bought Washington apples and cherries in BC. However, my wife had washed the both and removed the little stickers on the apples, but retained the bag for the cherries. The CPB officer said that we could eat the apples on the ferry and dispose of them on the ferry and we'd be fine.

My wife travelled to Vancouver a few times and she said that preclearance was basically it, where passengers were basically waved through at SFO except for random checks.

I will say that some of the questions that CBP asks upon return are kind of odd. I know they're just looking for people who are nervous, just in case they might flinch and give signs that they're smuggling in something. I've only brought back cooked meat which was fine. Getting the "purpose of your visit" question is kind of odd though on the way back. We went overnight for food and entertainment. Heard the Chinese food scene is awesome there, and we got BBQ pork and duck tongues that my wife's Chinese-American friend in the Seattle area asked us to look for. They didn't seem to be phased anyways. Plus if we'd been searched they would have seen a nearly empty trunk, some snack foods, and the aforementioned cooked meats.


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## adamj023

Every transportation method and place of travel can differ in their screening procedures and its hard to keep up with the different requirements. As going through security can be intrusive, it is not something you want to repeat during a connection flight but I will say the situation seems to be getting better as more airports are making upgrades. When you look online, every site seems to say different airports are good for connection flights. Chicago Ohare gets top marks from at least one source but others say its amongst the worst for connection flights. But the good news is Ohare has major projects ongoing as does many other airports. I understand the need for security but it should be done as efficiently as possible and without being abusive which has unfortunately happened at times.


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## Exvalley

adamj023 said:


> Chicago Ohare gets top marks from at least one source...


With terminal 5 being so isolated, I am shocked that anyone would give ORD top marks.


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## dwebarts

adamj023 said:


> Dulles has always been an airport which has lacked in progress. Some areas accelerate airport projects at a much quicker pace. The Port Authority Airports such as JFK, EWR and LGA have been slow to update but at least progress is being made unlike IAD. I doubt progress will be made there anytime soon.


Part of it is that most area residents don't use Dulles unless they need to. DCA and BWI are more convenient for many. That might change once the Silver Line is completed, but for now, it's far easier to take Metro to DCA or MARC/Amtrak to BWI. International flights are different, but depending on your frequent flier program(s), you might need to connect in another US city, eliminating the need to use IAD.


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## Exvalley

DCA is one of the best airports as far as ease of public transportation connections are concerned.


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## adamj023

Airlines like Southwest use less congested airports but they have a lot less flights and limited connectivity. They use Chicago Midway instead of O’Hare and Dallas love instead of Dallas Fort Worth.


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## adamj023

Exvalley said:


> With terminal 5 being so isolated, I am shocked that anyone would give ORD top marks.


Everyone has different opinions and different monetary interests as well. O’Hare has the O’Hare 21 project in the works and once completed, it will really transform the airport and I’m seeing that with lots of airports with their projects. Dulles is one that has plans for awhile but no progress and I don’t believe funding has been allocated yet. I read SFO is all post security now with more improvements coming as well.

Agreed on airside at ORD only being 1 to 3 for now. BOS will be all airside later this year making it better for international connections until the O’Hare 21 project is done.


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## Exvalley

adamj023 said:


> Airlines like Southwest use less congested airports but they have a lot less flights and limited connectivity. They use Chicago Midway instead of O’Hare....


Southwest is increasingly willing to enter into more congested airports. They now operate out of O'Hare, LGA, BOS, DCA, SFO, LAX, IAH, etc.


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## adamj023

Exvalley said:


> Southwest is increasingly willing to enter into more congested airports. They now operate out of O'Hare, LGA, BOS, DCA, SFO, LAX, IAH, etc.



Right but you can’t get a flight from LGA to ORD or LGA to DFW on Southwest. Southwest does ORD to Dallas Love not DFW. Spirit airlines does compete on the LGA to ORD and LGA to DFW markets which Southwest doesn’t touch but goes in with a more no frills approach.


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## BCL

adamj023 said:


> Airlines like Southwest use less congested airports but they have a lot less flights and limited connectivity. They use Chicago Midway instead of O’Hare and Dallas love instead of Dallas Fort Worth.



Not really. They started off by using smaller airports like Love Field and Houston-Hobby because fees were less and they were often more convenient (closer to city centers). But they don't have a hub and spoke system like the legacy airlines. Their model is about more non-stop and direct (same plane) flights to get their passengers from point to point without connections.

However, their hubs (where they don't use that word) include large airports like Oakland, Denver, Phoenix, and St. Louis. They don't operate out of DFW because they would have to give up slots at Love Field, but they do operate from Houston International. And they do have flights to O'Hare now.









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## lstone19

BCL said:


> Been through preclearance once at Sidney, BC for the Washington State Ferries ride to Anacortes, WA. Got asked questions by an armed CBP officer in full uniform although we weren't searched. Some of the questions asked were about food.



They seem to be obsessed with food. I flew from Vancouver back to the U.S. via Houston on a red-eye which departed after CBP closes so it's cleared on arrival at Houston like most international flights. It was the morning of March 16, 2020. We were three days into the world shutting down (couldn't get home any faster) and the only question CBP asked me was if I had any food. Not where I had been or anything actually related to the crisis facing the world. Just food.


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## adamj023

lstone19 said:


> They seem to be obsessed with food. I flew from Vancouver back to the U.S. via Houston on a red-eye which departed after CBP closes so it's cleared on arrival at Houston like most international flights. It was the morning of March 16, 2020. We were three days into the world shutting down (couldn't get home any faster) and the only question CBP asked me was if I had any food. Not where I had been or anything actually related to the crisis facing the world. Just food.


Was not an obsession over food. CBP in Houston didn’t have any security issues with Canada and they were only concerned about disease coming from food outside the country and the like. You already landed in the USA.


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## BCL

lstone19 said:


> They seem to be obsessed with food. I flew from Vancouver back to the U.S. via Houston on a red-eye which departed after CBP closes so it's cleared on arrival at Houston like most international flights. It was the morning of March 16, 2020. We were three days into the world shutting down (couldn't get home any faster) and the only question CBP asked me was if I had any food. Not where I had been or anything actually related to the crisis facing the world. Just food.



They've got a job to do. I get it. I totally understand the questions about bringing in produce of any kind. That's the standard question at any port of entry or border crossing. But they're cool about it as long as someone is upfront. Tell them what you have and you can claim ignorance. Forget that you had something and they'll hand out fines.

Once at SFO I had brought some meat pies. They were cooked and should have been OK, but the officer took a ballpoint pen and poked it. He could have asked us to maybe break it open, but he used the pen and we had to throw it out because we weren't going to eat anything that had a pen going through it.

At the Peace Arch crossing between BC and Washington we came back after less than 24 hours. Barely any sleep and we just went for eating and entertainment. The food scene was pretty good. They asked us basic questions like where we were from and where we went. We actually had Chinese food and were asked "Isn't there Chinese food in San Francisco?"


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## AmtrakMaineiac

Speaking of Customs, I still smile when I think of the time my dad tried to bring a frozen turkey on a flight from Boston to London in 1961, wanting to make a proper American Thanksgiving dinner for our relatives. It was our first trip back to the Old Country since we had emigrated in 1957. Needless to say it didn't make it through customs. He offered them the tins of cranberry sauce to go with it, figuring some customs official was going to have a nice meal that night


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## BCL

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Speaking of Customs, I still smile when I think of the time my dad tried to bring a frozen turkey on a flight from Boston to London in 1961, wanting to make a proper American Thanksgiving dinner for our relatives. It was our first trip back to the Old Country since we had emigrated in 1957. Needless to say it didn't make it through customs. He offered them the tins of cranberry sauce to go with it, figuring some customs official was going to have a nice meal that night



I tried to explain what I had landing in LAX back in the 90s after a trip to Australia and New Zealand. I had just toast and coffee for breakfast in the dining car before we arrived in Melbourne. And I tried Vegemite for the first time. The dining car attendant on our train between Sydney and Melbourne said "It's makes you strong" and made a bicep pump. So I tried it and he said I could take a few more of the little peel off tubs with me. We also had a friend in Melbourne give us some fresh abalone.

When we got back at LAX customs asked if we had any food and I said "yeast extract". He kind of looked at me and wanted a little more clarification (maybe he thought that I was a winemaker or something). Then I pulled out the Vegemite and he said "Oh Vegemite. Why didn't you say that?" It was of course cooked and anything in there had been long dead. And when we pulled out the fresh abalone (in a napkin because we couldn't get a plastic bag) we were told it was fine.

But I thought that with most custom lines there's a "last chance" disposal area. Anything that's supposed to be a possible violation of agricultural restrictions is supposed to be deposited there and incinerated to reduce the chance of maybe pest or pathogens spreading. If it's confiscated (after disclosure or not) it wouldn't make sense to just let a worker take it home.









What Happens to Food Seized at the Airport? (Published 2016)


No matter how tempting, these items are not consumed. In some cases, they are incinerated.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## MARC Rider

I'm sort of amazed at the variety of food they let through customs inspections. On the other hand, restrictions at some of the land border crossings seem silly, but then I don't have the latest data on the spread of specific insect pests. The state of California also has ag inspections stations at the state lines. These seem sort of pointless, as all the stuff we that bought at the Safeway in Oregon had been grown in California, anyway. Not that the inspector seemed to care. My other experience with food was a TSA inspector at O'Hare that had problems with my carrying a block of Wisconsin cheddar aboard. After some spirited discussion (with my mortified daughter thinking she was going to have to call a lawyer to bail me out), he let it pass.


----------



## lstone19

adamj023 said:


> Was not an obsession over food. CBP in Houston didn’t have any security issues with Canada and they were only concerned about disease coming from food outside the country and the like. You already landed in the USA.



Did you miss there I said this was March 16, 2020? The world was already into the pandemic shutdown. Where I had been should have been of great importance to them. Whether or not I had been to a COVID hotspot was of importance to Canada as that was one of the questions on the Nexus kiosk I used to enter Canada six days earlier. Even with paperwork saying I was arriving from Canada, the inspector didn't know where I might have been before that.

In terms of risk to the United States, whether or not I had traveled to a COVID hotspot was far more important than any food I might have been trying to sneak in. And as I recall, I heard other reports from people around that same time that said CBP was pretty uninterested in where people had been.


----------



## BCL

MARC Rider said:


> I'm sort of amazed at the variety of food they let through customs inspections. On the other hand, restrictions at some of the land border crossings seem silly, but then I don't have the latest data on the spread of specific insect pests. The state of California also has ag inspections stations at the state lines. These seem sort of pointless, as all the stuff we that bought at the Safeway in Oregon had been grown in California, anyway. Not that the inspector seemed to care. My other experience with food was a TSA inspector at O'Hare that had problems with my carrying a block of Wisconsin cheddar aboard. After some spirited discussion (with my mortified daughter thinking she was going to have to call a lawyer to bail me out), he let it pass.



You just tell them what you have and it's OK.

The agricultural inspection stations around Lake Tahoe are often just on the honor system. Unless they shut it down, there's usually a bypass lane for "locals" or those who were only in the "Lake Tahoe area" including Nevada.







I remember there were random USDA checks when checking in baggage from Hawaii to the mainland US.


----------



## west point

Do not forget the Ag inspection stations in and out of Florida. The USDA inspections at San Juan PR airport were nothing to sneeze at either. Too many passengers from there trying to bring PR food to USA relatives.


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## MARC Rider

west point said:


> Do not forget the Ag inspection stations in and out of Florida. The USDA inspections at San Juan PR airport were nothing to sneeze at either. Too many passengers from there trying to bring PR food to USA relatives.


I once changed planes at San Juan after a stay in Grenada. They had a pretty strict ag inspection at customs and Immigration (we had to trash some uneaten fruit from Grenada), but I don't recall any ag inspection for the San Juan to Baltimore segment, which was pretty much like a domestic US flight. Maybe they do it when they do the TSA inspections.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

I remember the Ag inspection in San Juan too. What they asked about was whether we had been on a farm, around livestock, especially pigs. Which we hadn't been. The inspector was more shocked when he found out how cold Chicago gets! And I was with Puerto Rican friends from here who chuckled with me. 

I remember my dad getting mouthy/lippy and frothing at the mouth for not being able to bring Sunkist oranges off a ship into the US in the 70's - 'BUT THEY ARE AMERICAN AND AMERICAN GROWN,' - no dice. His pissed off the inspector by eating them right there on the spot (and I guess no snacks on the train back to the Midwest - see, I made it about Amtrak there). 

When I flew from ORD to Oslo via Schiphol, I don't remember clearing customs or immigration (it was almost 30 years ago though) - just remember the airport being empty when I arrived and minimalist black and white with an anti-septic smell. All custom etc. handled at Fornebu in the very dated and undersized terminal. Same on the way back iirc, all immigration at O'Hare.


----------



## BCL

MARC Rider said:


> I once changed planes at San Juan after a stay in Grenada. They had a pretty strict ag inspection at customs and Immigration (we had to trash some uneaten fruit from Grenada), but I don't recall any ag inspection for the San Juan to Baltimore segment, which was pretty much like a domestic US flight. Maybe they do it when they do the TSA inspections.











https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/plant_health/fs-bag-inspection-travelers-notice-puerto-rico.pdf


----------



## BCL

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I remember my dad getting mouthy/lippy and frothing at the mouth for not being able to bring Sunkist oranges off a ship into the US in the 70's - 'BUT THEY ARE AMERICAN AND AMERICAN GROWN,' - no dice. His pissed off the inspector by eating them right there on the spot (and I guess no snacks on the train back to the Midwest - see, I made it about Amtrak there).



Could have been worse. There was the guy who had duty free alcohol purchased on board a plane and then told that he couldn't take it through security when he went out during an extended connection. So he drank a full liter of vodka on the spot. I think he left the hospital after a week.


----------



## BCL

Bob Dylan said:


>



It really happened. This was after the maximum container size for liquids was reduced to 100 ml. I do remember when they were kind of working that in around 2006, although the one trip I took I could still get two free check-in bags and I literally loaded a box with various beverages that I bought and didn't consume of the trip. Once I had most of a case of bottled water in Maui and I just gave it to a skycap at the airport [dropped off the rest of my party] before returning a rental car; he gladly took it and placed it in their storage area. However, this guy decided to do something about it rather than pay to check it in.









Defying Airport Security: Man Nearly Dies After Drinking Bottle of Vodka


When security officers told a 64-year-old airline passenger he couldn't take his bottle of vodka on board a flight, the man decided to drink it instead. But his refusal to pay for his bag to be checked in or dump the liquid nearly cost him his life.




www.spiegel.de



The man was switching planes on his way home from a holiday in Egypt to Dresden when security officials told him that he was not allowed to bring the liquor bottle on board. New airport rules prohibit passengers from carrying liquid containers with a volume of over 100 milliliters on to planes.​​The holidaymaker was told he would have to pay to have his bag checked into the luggage hold, or else dump the offending booze. However, the man decided upon a third option -- and chugged back the liter of alcohol.​​"The vodka quickly had an effect," a police spokesperson told the DPA news agency. The passenger was unable to stand or function and a doctor was called to the scene.​​The man, who hails from the eastern German city of Görlitz, was deemed to have life-threatening alcohol poisoning and was sent to a Nuremberg hospital for treatment. He is still recovering there but is expected to be able to make his way home in time for Christmas.​


----------



## Bob Dylan

BCL said:


> It really happened. This was after the maximum container size for liquids was reduced to 100 ml. I do remember when they were kind of working that in around 2006, although the one trip I took I could still get two free check-in bags and I literally loaded a box with various beverages that I bought and didn't consume of the trip. Once I had most of a case of bottled water in Maui and I just gave it to a skycap at the airport [dropped off the rest of my party] before returning a rental car; he gladly took it and placed it in their storage area. However, this guy decided to do something about it rather than pay to check it in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defying Airport Security: Man Nearly Dies After Drinking Bottle of Vodka
> 
> 
> When security officers told a 64-year-old airline passenger he couldn't take his bottle of vodka on board a flight, the man decided to drink it instead. But his refusal to pay for his bag to be checked in or dump the liquid nearly cost him his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.spiegel.de
> 
> 
> 
> The man was switching planes on his way home from a holiday in Egypt to Dresden when security officials told him that he was not allowed to bring the liquor bottle on board. New airport rules prohibit passengers from carrying liquid containers with a volume of over 100 milliliters on to planes.​​The holidaymaker was told he would have to pay to have his bag checked into the luggage hold, or else dump the offending booze. However, the man decided upon a third option -- and chugged back the liter of alcohol.​​"The vodka quickly had an effect," a police spokesperson told the DPA news agency. The passenger was unable to stand or function and a doctor was called to the scene.​​The man, who hails from the eastern German city of Görlitz, was deemed to have life-threatening alcohol poisoning and was sent to a Nuremberg hospital for treatment. He is still recovering there but is expected to be able to make his way home in time for Christmas.​


I believe it, the emoti is for Crazy!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

BCL said:


> There was the guy who had duty free alcohol purchased on board a plane and then told that he couldn't take it through security when he went out during an extended connection. So he drank a full liter of vodka on the spot. I think he left the hospital after a week.


Passengers have always been able to bring alcohol on board by checking it, including moving it to checked luggage for connections. These days they even let you bring duty free as a carryon in a sealed tamper resistant bag. Rather than a legitimate complaint this was a case of a disturbed passenger.


----------



## jis

I thought one of the good things of getting access to your checked baggage at the port of entry was to facilitate people transferring their duty free booze from their hand baggage to their checked baggage


----------



## neroden

MARC Rider said:


> The state of California also has ag inspections stations at the state lines.



These are to keep fruit flies out of California. There are no fruit flies in California and it saves their agriculture industry astounding amounts of money. They don't care about anything which wouldn't be eaten by fruit flies. Fruit, however, they are deadly serious about.


----------



## BCL

Devil's Advocate said:


> Passengers have always been able to bring alcohol on board by checking it, including moving it to checked luggage for connections. These days they even let you bring duty free as a carryon in a sealed tamper resistant bag. Rather than a legitimate complaint this was a case of a disturbed passenger.



That case in Germany was in 2007, so it was probably before a lot of the newer procedures. Even now, I'm not sure how that would work - if that would be allowed for a domestic transfer. It might also depend on how the transfer is made since I think booked together there's free check-in and transfers on domestic connections, but not if they're booked separately. Back in 2006 I remember 2 free pieces on American Airlines, but in Germany in 2007 I guess it would depend on the airline and their policy at the time.

The thing that really sucks is for anyone traveling to Utah. They make it nearly impossible to bring alcohol legally into the state. They want it purchased in the state. I haven't even found any way to buy alcohol out of state and pay a tax in-state like they allow in Texas. But one big exception is duty free alcohol purchased in another country. But only if it's from a direct flight from outside the United States. Connecting flights don't count if the alcohol has to go through customs outside of Utah and then via a connecting flight. I'm not sure who is responsible for enforcing that though. TSA checking check-in bags with an origin in some other state isn't likely to care.


----------



## Bob Dylan

BCL said:


> That case in Germany was in 2007, so it was probably before a lot of the newer procedures. Even now, I'm not sure how that would work - if that would be allowed for a domestic transfer. It might also depend on how the transfer is made since I think booked together there's free check-in and transfers on domestic connections, but not if they're booked separately. Back in 2006 I remember 2 free pieces on American Airlines, but in Germany in 2007 I guess it would depend on the airline and their policy at the time.
> 
> The thing that really sucks is for anyone traveling to Utah. They make it nearly impossible to bring alcohol legally into the state. They want it purchased in the state. I haven't even found any way to buy alcohol out of state and pay a tax in-state like they allow in Texas. But one big exception is duty free alcohol purchased in another country. But only if it's from a direct flight from outside the United States. Connecting flights don't count if the alcohol has to go through customs outside of Utah and then via a connecting flight. I'm not sure who is responsible for enforcing that though. TSA checking check-in bags with an origin in some other state isn't likely to care.


Every State has wierd Alcohol Rules!( for instance here in Texas you can't buy Liquor inside Grocery and Big Box Stores, just Beer and Wine).

And the " Blue Laws" are a leftover from the days when Religion and Law were strongly married!(Remember, Utah is a Mormon dominated State)


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Bob Dylan said:


> And the " Blue Laws" are a leftover from the days when Religion and Law were strongly married!(Remember, Utah is a Mormon dominated State)



My parents talked about how in the "old days" (50's and 60's I assume) one needed a "license" to buy liquor in Utah. And in restaurants drinks must be poured out of eyeshot of minors. However, you can now buy in the grocery store. And even in Indiana, it sounds like liquor sales on Sundays will soon be a new thing. 

I just learned, in the same vein, that package stores in Massachusetts can only have like 3 locations, hence Trader Joe's only has three locations with liquor/wine.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

BCL said:


> That case in Germany was in 2007, so it was probably before a lot of the newer procedures. Even now, I'm not sure how that would work - if that would be allowed for a domestic transfer. It might also depend on how the transfer is made since I think booked together there's free check-in and transfers on domestic connections, but not if they're booked separately.


To the best of my knowledge the transfer into checked luggage option has always existed. Even if you bought separate tickets on airlines with no interline (and had to exit the re-check area to drop your bag at the departure desk) the option still existed, albeit in a clumsy and ambiguous manner.



BCL said:


> The thing that really sucks is for anyone traveling to Utah. They make it nearly impossible to bring alcohol legally into the state. They want it purchased in the state. I haven't even found any way to buy alcohol out of state and pay a tax in-state like they allow in Texas.


I've heard people can get pulled over for making a large purchase on a short trip but I rarely carry more than a bottle or two and that never seems to raise any eyebrows. I guess things start to change for the worse at the 3+ mark.



Bob Dylan said:


> Every State has wierd Alcohol Rules!


In Texas you can only buy spirits for home consumption until 8:59PM but you can buy hard drinks (and probably drive home drunk) until 2AM. You can be arrested for public intoxication _while sitting in a licensed bar_ having created no disturbance to anyone present. I could go on but they're all pretty stupid.


----------



## BCL

Metra Electric Rider said:


> My parents talked about how in the "old days" (50's and 60's I assume) one needed a "license" to buy liquor in Utah. And in restaurants drinks must be poured out of eyeshot of minors. However, you can now buy in the grocery store. And even in Indiana, it sounds like liquor sales on Sundays will soon be a new thing.



It's not needed at an airport, but that's kind of an exception made given that alcohol sales are a huge moneymaker at airport concessions. One doesn't need a license to buy at a state liquor store. But the way it was arranged was that they had "private clubs" that served hard liquor, wine, and "heavy beer". And one would need to get a membership although it could be really cheap and the "member" can invite a few friends. I was having pizza in Moab over 15 years ago, and there was a separate area (behind glass) that included the private club area. Not sure how that works now, other than it was never necessarily at an airport.









Utah liquor law change: Bye, bye private clubs


Starting Wednesday, Utah bars and social clubs are no longer required to charge a membership fee




archive.sltrib.com





I'm still not sure how interested federal officers are in enforcing state alcohol laws.


----------



## BCL

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've heard people can get pulled over for making a large purchase on a short trip but I rarely carry more than a bottle or two and that never seems to raise any eyebrows. I guess things start to change for the worse at the 3+ mark.


They would run stings on the border, by my understanding was that it was primarily geared towards vehicles with Utah license plates. People passing through generally had no problems.

Amtrak has also had some interesting issues dealing with passing through certain states or even dry counties.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Devil's Advocate said:


> To the best of my knowledge the transfer into checked luggage option has always existed. Even if you bought separate tickets on airlines with no interline (and had to exit the re-check area to drop your bag at the departure desk) the option still existed, albeit in a clumsy and ambiguous manner.
> 
> 
> I've heard people can get pulled over for making a large purchase on a short trip but I rarely carry more than a bottle or two and that never seems to raise any eyebrows. I guess things start to change for the worse at the 3+ mark.
> 
> 
> In Texas you can only buy spirits for home consumption until 8:59PM but you can buy hard drinks (and probably drive home drunk) until 2AM. You can be arrested for public intoxication _while sitting in a licensed bar_ having created no disturbance to anyone present. I could go on but they're all pretty stupid.


In the old days(up to the 70s) you could only buy Beer in Bars and Clubs, No Liquor or Wine, but one could " Brown Bag it" by buying a Bottle @ the Liquor Store and the Joint would sell you "Setups", ie Ice and Mixer to add your choice of booze, and also had "Corkage for a Fee for your Wine if you brought it with you.

Private Clubs, as mentioned above,were also around in "Wet" Counties!( you had a Membership and if a local kept your booze in a Locker, if a Visitor you paid a nominal Membership Fee.) The same thing existed in Oklahoma up until the 80s!


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## MARC Rider

Bob Dylan said:


> Every State has wierd Alcohol Rules!( for instance here in Texas you can't buy Liquor inside Grocery and Big Box Stores, just Beer and Wine).
> 
> And the " Blue Laws" are a leftover from the days when Religion and Law were strongly married!(Remember, Utah is a Mormon dominated State)


And in New York, you can only buy beer in grocery stores. But in Maryland, you can't buy either, you have to go to special liquor stores. Except in a couple of counties where you can. In our part of Maryland, no liquor, beer, or wines sales on Sundays, except for a few liquor stores that have some sort of special license that allows them to do so. On the other hand, in California, you can buy beer, liquor, wine, whatever in grocery stores 7 days a week. Apparently you can also do that in Maine, too. The weirdest I've seen is in Ohio, where they sell beer, wine and 20 proof "vodka" in drugstores and grocery stores, but real liquor is only sold in select grocery stores where they have some sort of tamper proof anti-shoplifting tag on them that has to be removed by a special store clerk (not all can do it) after you show them your ID. And you have to show your ID even if you're a gray-haired geezer like me.


----------



## BCL

MARC Rider said:


> On the other hand, in California, you can buy beer, liquor, wine, whatever in grocery stores 7 days a week.


Not 24/7 though. Last call is at 2 AM until 6 AM. And no on-premises alcohol consumption during those hours. Of course this applies to airports, although I've never seen airport concessions open during those hours in California. And I've rarely been in an airport that late.

Hours of Sale | Alcoholic Beverage Control​*B & P Code 25631. Retail Hours of Sale*​Any on-sale or off sale licensee, or agent or employee of that licensee, who sells, gives, or delivers to any persons any alcoholic beverage or any person who knowingly purchases any alcoholic beverage between the hours of 2 o’clock a.m. and 6 o’clock a.m. of the same day, is guilty of a misdemeanor.​​For the purposes of this section, on the day that a time change occurs from Pacific standard time to Pacific daylight saving time, or back again to Pacific standard time, “2 o’clock a.m.” means two hours after midnight of the day preceding the day such change occurs.​​*B & P Code 25632. Consumption*​Any retail licensee, or agent or employee of such licensee, who permits any alcoholic beverage to be consumed by any person on the licensee’s licensed premises during any hours in which it is unlawful to sell, give, or deliver any alcoholic beverage for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor.​
The other deal is no self-checkout of alcohol.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

MARC Rider said:


> Apparently you can also do that in Maine, to


Yes Maine is pretty open. Each store has to be an "agency liquor store" and I believe the state still regulates prices. But basically every grocery store and gas station sells booze. Only drawback is it has put most real liquor stores out of business and it can be hard to find good wines or specialty liquors as most places just carry the big sellers like Barefoot (ugh).

The weirdest place was PA when we lived there in the 70s and 80s and you had to go to the "State Store" where there was a counter and you had to look up the liquor in a list and give the clerk a number and he would go back and look for it. If they were out you tried another number and so on. Sort of like if Amtrak management ran the system. You could only buy beer by the case at a distributor. I think things have loosened up since then.


----------



## dwebarts

MARC Rider said:


> But in Maryland, you can't buy either, you have to go to special liquor stores. Except in a couple of counties where you can. In our part of Maryland, no liquor, beer, or wine sales on Sundays, except for a few liquor stores that have some sort of special license that allows them to do so.


Maryland is the strictest of the states I've lived in to date. Montgomery County allows sales on Sundays, but the county controls distribution. It drives restaurants nuts, as they're unable to order from small wineries on their own. José Andrés lives in Bethesda but only has one restaurant in the county, and that one is at the insistence of his daughters. Total Wine is based here but doesn't have any stores in the county.

When I lived in California, you could still be alcohol at the drive-up Alta Dena Dairy stores (it's been a few decades).

In Virginia, I could buy beer and wine in grocery stores but had to go to a Liquor Control Board ABS store for hard liquor.

In New Mexico, you could buy anything anywhere except on Christmas Day and Election Day when humans were on the ballot (no jokes - it was okay for bond questions and amendments, etc.).

Decades after I grew up and left, I still miss Michigan's "party stores." The combination of alcohol sales, deli and convenience items was great.


----------



## BCL

dwebarts said:


> Maryland is the strictest of the states I've lived in to date. Montgomery County allows sales on Sundays, but the county controls distribution. It drives restaurants nuts, as they're unable to order from small wineries on their own. José Andrés lives in Bethesda but only has one restaurant in the county, and that one is at the insistence of his daughters. Total Wine is based here but doesn't have any stores in the county.
> 
> When I lived in California, you could still be alcohol at the drive-up Alta Dena Dairy stores (it's been a few decades).
> 
> In Virginia, I could buy beer and wine in grocery stores but had to go to a Liquor Control Board ABS store for hard liquor.
> 
> In New Mexico, you could buy anything anywhere except on Christmas Day and Election Day when humans were on the ballot (no jokes - it was okay for bond questions and amendments, etc.).
> 
> Decades after I grew up and left, I still miss Michigan's "party stores." The combination of alcohol sales, deli and convenience items was great.



The only things that are restricted in California beside the usual of age is no sales or consumption from 2 AM to 6 AM, and no alcohol purchases at self-checkouts. And it's been like that for a while. I've been in a supermarket just before 2 AM when I heard the last call for alcohol sales.

If I can take it back to post security issues at airports, there is one way to bring alcohol on board a plane in carry on. As long as it's all under the 100 ml individual size limit and in a quart bag (or whatever limit there is outside the US) one can take mini bottles. It's up to the airlines to determine whether or not they can be consumed by the passenger. The only US federal regulation is that only an airline can serve alcohol on a plane, so if the flight attendant is willing to open it and place it in a cup, that would be legal. Some airlines don't allow it though. Not sure what the rules would be on drinking BYO alcohol in an terminal though.


----------



## MARC Rider

dwebarts said:


> Maryland is the strictest of the states I've lived in to date. Montgomery County allows sales on Sundays, but the county controls distribution. It drives restaurants nuts, as they're unable to order from small wineries on their own. José Andrés lives in Bethesda but only has one restaurant in the county, and that one is at the insistence of his daughters. Total Wine is based here but doesn't have any stores in the county.
> 
> When I lived in California, you could still be alcohol at the drive-up Alta Dena Dairy stores (it's been a few decades).


I took a backpacking trip to California in 1987. My carpool decided to stop in a small town in the Central Valley to buy a few last-minute things before we hit the mountains, and we ended up at a Safeway a little after 7 PM on a Sunday evening. Not only was I astounded that the store was still open (at the time Maryland still had Blue Laws and if you didn't get to the supermarket by 7 PM on Sunday, you were stuck with 7-11), but they had a full scale liquor department from which I was able to buy a bottle of bourbon to fill my flask for happy hours on the trail.

Does Montgomery County still have their own county-run liquor stores? I also think Wicomico County also had a similar deal, and you could buy beer and wine in grocery stores.

And, of course, may favorite was the old time Pennsylvania State Stores. Now they're just like any other liquor store, but back in the day, they were basically warehouses where you ordered out of a book, and the clerk went into the back to get your stuff. The clerks were forbidden to make any recommendations or do anything that smacked of salesmanship or customer service. I believe this was a legacy of Gifford Pinchot, an ardent Prohibitionist, who was governor of Pennsylvania when Prohibition was repealed. His motto was allegedly, "Let them drink as long as they don't enjoy it."


----------



## dwebarts

MARC Rider said:


> Does Montgomery County still have their own county-run liquor stores? I also think Wicomico County also had a similar deal, and you could buy beer and wine in grocery stores.


They do, but we can't buy beer and wine in most grocery stores due to Maryland state law. Three grocery stores in the county are able to do this because they were grandfathered in as sellers before the state law was enacted. Bodega-style stores are able to, as well as stand-alone wine stores.

Bringing this back around to the topic, I've never tried carrying alcohol in BWI to see if there are issues. Another plus for Amtrak: no TSA. Let's hope people behave well enough so that it can stay that way.


----------



## BCL

MARC Rider said:


> And, of course, may favorite was the old time Pennsylvania State Stores. Now they're just like any other liquor store, but back in the day, they were basically warehouses where you ordered out of a book, and the clerk went into the back to get your stuff. The clerks were forbidden to make any recommendations or do anything that smacked of salesmanship or customer service. I believe this was a legacy of Gifford Pinchot, an ardent Prohibitionist, who was governor of Pennsylvania when Prohibition was repealed. His motto was allegedly, "Let them drink as long as they don't enjoy it."


Also the father of the US Forest Service, where the rules on alcohol consumption can be extremely lax. Probably not due to him.


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac

dwebarts said:


> In New Mexico, you could buy anything anywhere except on Christmas Day and Election Day when humans were on the ballot (no jokes - it was okay for bond questions and amendments, etc.).


When I was stationed in New Mexico there were some "dry" towns, for example Portales which was the location of a university and therefore they didn't want the kids to get their hands on liquor. Didn't work as the kids would just drive into nearby Clovis buy their booze then drive drunk back to Portales.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

This is actually, even if off topic, a fascinating thread and I've learned a lot.

ASAIK in Illinois (Chicago at least) liquor is OK at self-checkout. Pretty much the only blue period is Sunday morning. Back in olden times, Evanston was dry, thanks to the WCTU and the Chicago side of the dividing street was lined with liquor stores and bars. 

The county in Kentucky adjacent to Fort Knox (Hardin) used to be dry due to not wanting to be a party center for the base. Looks like it's a "limited moist" county now.


----------



## BCL

Metra Electric Rider said:


> This is actually, even if off topic, a fascinating thread and I've learned a lot.
> 
> ASAIK in Illinois (Chicago at least) liquor is OK at self-checkout. Pretty much the only blue period is Sunday morning. Back in olden times, Evanston was dry, thanks to the WCTU and the Chicago side of the dividing street was lined with liquor stores and bars.
> 
> The county in Kentucky adjacent to Fort Knox (Hardin) used to be dry due to not wanting to be a party center for the base. Looks like it's a "limited moist" county now.


There have been tons of jokes made about Moore County, Tennessee since it's consolidated with Lynchburg. Jack Daniel's had a series of commercials showing the people of the town and their relationship with the city-county's most famous product. There was one where they showed the Sheriff and noted that "This guy keeps the county dry." while it then cut to others where "These guys would prefer it a little wet." Found it.


----------



## dwebarts

Metra Electric Rider said:


> ASAIK in Illinois (Chicago at least) liquor is OK at self-checkout. Pretty much the only blue period is Sunday morning. Back in olden times, Evanston was dry, thanks to the WCTU and the Chicago side of the dividing street was lined with liquor stores and bars.


I was a college student in Evanston when states were changing their drinking ages to 21. It was a yo-yo time for some of us. I went to college at 17 when Illinois was 21, returned home to Michigan and could drink at Thanksgiving (November birthday), but not at Christmas. The legislature had voted to raise the age to 21 effective January 1st, but voters decided to raise it immediately. Chicago raised it to 21, with the state still at 19. Since most of the north shore was dry, if we wanted to buy, we just drove to Wisconsin on occasion to stock up.


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## Metra Electric Rider

dwebarts said:


> I was a college student in Evanston when states were changing their drinking ages to 21. It was a yo-yo time for some of us. I went to college at 17 when Illinois was 21, returned home to Michigan and could drink at Thanksgiving (November birthday), but not at Christmas. The legislature had voted to raise the age to 21 effective January 1st, but voters decided to raise it immediately. Chicago raised it to 21, with the state still at 19. Since most of the north shore was dry, if we wanted to buy, we just drove to Wisconsin on occasion to stock up.



Interestingly, I was served in restaurants in Chicago as a teen, even with other teens (mid/late 80's) no questions asked.


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## Devil's Advocate

Bob Dylan said:


> In the old days(up to the 70s) you could only buy Beer in Bars and Clubs, No Liquor or Wine, but one could " Brown Bag it" by buying a Bottle @ the Liquor Store and the Joint would sell you "Setups", ie Ice and Mixer to add your choice of booze, and also had "Corkage for a Fee for your Wine if you brought it with you. Private Clubs, as mentioned above,were also around in "Wet" Counties!( you had a Membership and if a local kept your booze in a Locker, if a Visitor you paid a nominal Membership Fee.) The same thing existed in Oklahoma up until the 80s!


We still have beer bars that permit outside liquor and most of our counties are at least semi-wet now. Still no liquor stores open on Sunday though.



dwebarts said:


> The combination of alcohol sales, deli and convenience items was great.


Texas allows stores like that but because we forbid mixing of liquor and supermarkets we can buy Costco liquor without a membership.



BCL said:


> If I can take it back to post security issues at airports, there is one way to bring alcohol on board a plane in carry on. As long as it's all under the 100 ml individual size limit and in a quart bag (or whatever limit there is outside the US) one can take mini bottles. [...] It's up to the airlines to determine whether or not they can be consumed by the passenger. The only US federal regulation is that only an airline can serve alcohol on a plane, so if the flight attendant is willing to open it and place it in a cup, that would be legal. Some airlines don't allow it though. Not sure what the rules would be on drinking BYO alcohol in an terminal though.


You can bring enough liquor to get smashed but you still run afoul of US carrier rules that disallow FA's to assist with personal consumption.


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## BCL

Devil's Advocate said:


> We still have beer bars that permit outside liquor and most of our counties are at least semi-wet now. Still no liquor stores open on Sunday though.
> 
> 
> Texas allows stores like that but because we forbid mixing of liquor and supermarkets we can buy Costco liquor without a membership.
> 
> 
> You can bring enough liquor to get smashed but you still run afoul of US carrier rules that disallow FA's to assist with personal consumption.



California requires membership stores to sell alcohol to all, so anyone can go in and buy alcohol at Costco or Sam's Club. Same for any prescription items, although not non-prescription items behind the counter.

I don't think the big issue would necessarily be whether or not flight attendants would serve, but whether or not people decide to get sloshed themselves.


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## dwebarts

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Interestingly, I was served in restaurants in Chicago as a teen, even with other teens (mid/late 80's) no questions asked.


Truth. The first time I was carded was the day after I turned 21. It was the stores that were a problem. Restaurants and bars were easy, especially if you were female.


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