# Annoying Policy with Tripods



## Evan's Trains (Oct 21, 2015)

Hallo, does anybody think Amtrak's policy on no tripods near or on the platform is flat out stupid? Seriosly, las Saturday I was at NLC trying to catch 82 when some idiot Amtrak Policeman yelled at me for filming and caused me screw up my shot, so I was forced to use my iPhone to record. Why does AMtrak prohibit this? I see no way that having a tripod could harm you or someone else. Something that staggers me even more is that how you ARE allowed to do film and video but even a small tripod gets you kicked off the platform. How do you think of this? Should it be removed?


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## SubwayNut (Oct 21, 2015)

It's a common policy of transportation agencies, tripods can often be large and can cause bottlenecks and create tripping hazards. The MTA in New York bans them and it's a policy I understand. Most transit agencies also prohibit flashes because these can be blinding to train operators.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 21, 2015)

SubwayNut said:


> It's a common policy of transportation agencies, tripods can often be large and *can cause bottlenecks and create tripping hazards*. The MTA in New York bans them and it's a policy I understand. Most transit agencies also prohibit flashes because these can be blinding to train operators.


Exactly. I'm a photographer and have no problem with that policy. Also, may times, a tripod will put you into a (perceived) pro or commercial category which requires a shooting permit from the station authorities.


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## Ryan (Oct 21, 2015)

Concur with the others. No issues here.


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## jis (Oct 21, 2015)

I also agree. The tripod policy is sound and based on real issues that potentially arise from using tripods. Don;t see anything wrong or stupid about it. And yes, I use all sorts of cameras at train stations and other railroad facilities. I often get the comment that I must be a professional photographer, which I am not. but some of my lenses and cameras may give such an impression. At best I am a Pro-Am but I have never used my photos for anything but pure hobby and no financial gain.


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## MattW (Oct 21, 2015)

If it's not in the way (like at the end of a platform that isn't part of main pedestrian circulation) then it should be ignored. Anything else is a power trip and rules for the sake of rules.


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## AG1 (Oct 21, 2015)

I also agree with the posters above. I hope you can temper your thoughts a bit and realize the no tripod rules are reasonable for the safety of all the people.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 21, 2015)

MattW said:


> If it's not in the way (like at the end of a platform that isn't part of main pedestrian circulation) then it should be ignored. Anything else is a power trip and rules for the sake of rules.


What is the line of demarcation between "the end of a platform and isn't part of main pedestrian circulation" and, it not the end of the platform but (still) isn't part of main pedestrian circulation? The rule is for the entire platform... NO line of demarcation (gray area)...allows for more consistency in practice. Pedestrian numbers can and do change with time, even short periods.


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## PerRock (Oct 21, 2015)

I just read over Amtrak's policy and didn't see anything about Tripoods... However not all of the stations Amtrak serve are own by Amtrak and may have their own policies; NLC is owned by "Union Station Development LLC" (don't know who they are), and would probably follows their rules.

That being said, I don't tend to film much at stations so never really looked into it; do most policies specifically state tripods? would a monopod be allowed? I would think that use of a monopod would allow you more stability then hand-holding while filming while also being much less likely to get in the way of things.

peter


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## TinCan782 (Oct 21, 2015)

PerRock said:


> I just read over Amtrak's policy and didn't see anything about Tripoods... However not all of the stations Amtrak serve are own by Amtrak and may have their own policies; NLC is owned by "Union Station Development LLC" (don't know who they are), and would probably follows their rules.
> 
> That being said, I don't tend to film much at stations so never really looked into it; do most policies specifically state tripods? would a monopod be allowed? I would think that use of a monopod would allow you more stability then hand-holding while filming while also being much less likely to get in the way of things.
> 
> peter


From the Amtrak policy (there's always something buried somewhere)...

Section III. Exceptions
[SIZE=14.4px]3. Ticketed Passengers on platforms may photograph or video record during the time they are preparing to board or immediately after alighting from a train. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.4px]*Equipment is limited to hand-held devices.*[/SIZE][SIZE=14.4px] Such photography, including equipment set-up will be done in a reasonable, safe and timely manner.[/SIZE]

From LA Metro ...
Photography Guidelines
Only permissible in public areas, proof of fare required in marked fare required areas (station platforms of all rail stations and the Metro Orange Line)
No commercial photography without prior authorization and consent from Metro
Hand held equipment only, *no tripods are permitted*
No photography inside moving trains for privacy and safety reasons
*No flash photography*, especially into oncoming transit vehicles (rail or bus)
Photography must not interfere with passenger safety or movement at any time

All organizations/facilities will have their own guidelines that may, or may not agree!


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 21, 2015)

I've seen tripods on platforms in other countries. Never saw anyone walking into or tripping over them. Probably because they weren't in the way of anyone else. Are Americans uniquely incapable of anticipating basic traffic patterns and avoiding simple obstructions? A more reasonable rule would be something on the lines of "Don't let your photography get in the way of other passengers." Then again you'd be adding a thought based variable to the equation and that doesn't seem to be something our rapidly regressing culture can handle anymore.


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## cirdan (Oct 22, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've seen tripods on platforms in other countries. Never saw anyone walking into or tripping over them. Probably because they weren't in the way of anyone else. Are Americans uniquely incapable of anticipating basic traffic patterns and avoiding simple obstructions? A more reasonable rule would be something on the lines of "Don't let your photography get in the way of other passengers." Then again you'd be adding a thought based variable to the equation and that doesn't seem to be something our rapidly regressing culture can handle anymore.


Many countries have policies banning tripods. It may be that these are not being properly enforced, or that the security people hadn't noticed or had better things to do. In Spain once I was told by a policemen to put away my tripod. In some countries you can actually even get a permit to use a tripod. I think you have to apply for it in writing beforehand and sign a form so basically they know who you are and you agree to certain conditions, for example not setting up the tripod in areas with passenger circulation.


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## jis (Oct 22, 2015)

You can even get a permit from Amtrak or NJT to use such. But you have to do so claiming to be a professional photographer and then everything else that goes with that kicks in.

OTOH, fortunately a lot of choice locations for railroad photography are not on any railroad property, and hence you can use tripods to your heart's content provided you stay on public land and do not obstruct any other normal public function.


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## flying_babyb (Mar 13, 2016)

get a tripod cane! Mines got the 4 cane legs and a tripod ball joint on top. Was a gift a few years ago (i have knee issues)


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## cirdan (Mar 14, 2016)

jis said:


> You can even get a permit from Amtrak or NJT to use such. But you have to do so claiming to be a professional photographer and then everything else that goes with that kicks in.
> 
> OTOH, fortunately a lot of choice locations for railroad photography are not on any railroad property, and hence you can use tripods to your heart's content provided you stay on public land and do not obstruct any other normal public function.


I've never had any interactions with Amtrak police concerning this type of thing so can't say how they are, but in the UK I have on several occasions had a policeman walk over to me and ask me some techie nerdy questions about what I was doing and the types of trains we were seeing any about my equipment, probably just to check that i was a legitimate foamer and not some terrorist posing as such. He never once mentioned that I shouldn't be there, but just said to keep behind the yellow lines and not to walk on the track (which I wasn't planning to do anyway) and even said to report to him if there was any trouble.


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## PerRock (Mar 14, 2016)

FrensicPic said:


> PerRock said:
> 
> 
> > I just read over Amtrak's policy and didn't see anything about Tripoods... However not all of the stations Amtrak serve are own by Amtrak and may have their own policies; NLC is owned by "Union Station Development LLC" (don't know who they are), and would probably follows their rules.
> ...


I read that as ticketed passengers aren't allowed to use tripods.

And the L.A. Metro is not Amtrak...

peter


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2016)

You have to read the whole policy, the section you quoted from is titled "Exemptions".

An exemption to what, you may ask? The no photography from restricted areas listed earlier. Yes, the platform is considered a restricted area. However, if you have a ticket, you're allowed to take pictures, without a tripod.

So technically your reading is correct - the no tripod rule only applies to passengers. You missed that there was a different rule that said no photography (tripod or not) by non-passengers.


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## PerRock (Mar 14, 2016)

I didn't quote the policy, just linked to it.

The point I was trying to make is for the regular walk-up railfan trying to do some photography/video, the Amtrak policy does not ban the use of tripods at all. Yes it restricts access to certain areas, but not devices; and as I stated before, certain stations (owned by other entities) may place further restrictions on photography usage & tools.

Strictly speaking, yes, you cannot film on a station platform with a tripod, but the rule you would in-fact be breaking is not with the tripod, but with the area your are in; and one could probably make the argument (legally) that the usage of a tripod by a by-stander (railfan) on a platform is not in violation of Amtrak's policies.

peter

Edit: I haven't seen mention of this. But one of the main reasons for banning the use of tripods on platforms is emergency safety. If there is an emergency and the platform needs to be emptied quickly and person with a tripod may be held up, or get in the way of people trying to exit the platform. On Low-level platforms in particular (and some high-level) one exit/entrance route may be off the end of the platform. If you are there filming with your tripod, you (or your equipment) would be blocking people trying to escape or emergency crews trying to get to the platform.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2016)

"and one could probably make the argument (legally) that the usage of a tripod by a by-stander (railfan) on a platform is not in violation of Amtrak's policies."

No, you couldn't, because as you note in the preceding clause, being a rail fan on the platform without a ticket is a violation of Amtrak's policies.

(well I suppose you could, you can make any argument, but it won't be correct)


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm glad Amtrak is cracking down on deadly consumer spec tripods. More people die from tripod related deaths than... Hmm. I actually couldn't find evidence of a single tripod-on-platform related fatality. Must be something that happens a lot but goes unreported due to the stigma of dying in such an amazingly stupid manner.


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## PerRock (Mar 14, 2016)

Ryan said:


> "and one could probably make the argument (legally) that the usage of a tripod by a by-stander (railfan) on a platform is not in violation of Amtrak's policies."
> 
> No, you couldn't, because as you note in the preceding clause, being a rail fan on the platform without a ticket is a violation of Amtrak's policies.
> 
> (well I suppose you could, you can make any argument, but it won't be correct)


The usage of a tripod by a non-ticketed member of the public is not against Amtrak policies. Where you decide to film, regardless of what equipment you use; is restricted. Not the equipment.

So if you were filming with a tripod on a platform; the policy gives you right to use the tripod, it doesn't allow you to film where you are. If they kicked you out for "using a tripod" then they would be going against their policy.

peter


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2016)

"So if you were filming with a tripod on a platform; the policy gives you right to use the tripod"

No, it doesn't. The policy says you have no right to film there whatsoever.


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## Peter KG6LSE (Mar 16, 2016)

May I ask why you NEED one...... Get a cam with a good size sensor and crank the ISO to 1000-2400 and slap on the front a good lens . the "nifty 50" F1.8 50 mm Prime is 130 bucks . that on darn near any age DLSR is a low light match made in heaven.

also Use light poles and anything else you can brace against.

You can't bring" legs "but you can find some if you get crafty.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 16, 2016)

Peter KG6LSE said:


> May I ask why you NEED one...... Get a cam with a good size sensor and crank the ISO to 1000-2400 and slap on the front a good lens . the "nifty 50" F1.8 50 mm Prime is 130 bucks . that on darn near any age DLSR is a low light match made in heaven. also Use light poles and anything else you can brace against. You can't bring" legs "but you can find some if you get crafty.


I use a tripod because I like to film video and I want crisp and clear visuals without constant movement. Here's a return question. How many passengers did consumer tripods maim and kill before Amtrak decided they NEEDED to ban them?


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## Peter KG6LSE (Mar 16, 2016)

Oh thats easy!.... None.

However the cost to them is a few unhappy railfans . the perceived risk is more then the cost therefor legs gotta go.

look at ANY industry.

like MS winders 10. a few REALLY mad folks like me dont want anything to do with the most ulgy GUI Ive seen in 20 years. Yet winders 10 for them is a more stable platform so they push it.

If the folks who wanna film with tripods could prove they are no threat on any platform any day of the week at any station then it's possible to lobby amtrak to change the tripod policy.

Ill bet 90% of the stations are a super low risk. OTM comes to mind

but stuff like CUS is huge on the whole. so from management standpoint they just do the typical American thing and kneejerk a blanket ban..... its stupid and it is not how I would have implemented my policy were I * king * of the rails.

Make it up to the station master .


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## KmH (Mar 17, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Here's a return question. How many passengers did consumer tripods maim and kill before Amtrak decided they NEEDED to ban them?


The policy is likely preemptive rather than reactive, and about liability.

It is smart business to have policies that mitigate the possibility of having to spend mega dollars on attorneys because some idiot tripped over a tripod and sustained some real or perceived injury.

You can bet somewhere back in time some commercial entity did in fact get sued, thus setting a precedent.

Other commercial entities then learn from that precedent setting legal action and add a policy prohibiting tripods.

Myself I use a monopod, on the platform _and_ on the train, to make video.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 17, 2016)

KmH said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a return question. How many passengers did consumer tripods maim and kill before Amtrak decided they NEEDED to ban them?
> ...


I might be willing to take that bet. How much do you want to wager that you can find and produce a successful precedent setting civil judgement against a US based common carrier arising from an event occurring during active regularly scheduled services, either uncontested or upheld upon final appeal, based entirely or primarily on physical harm from a consumer tripod deployed as intended and designed on an active passenger platform?


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## TylerP42 (Mar 20, 2016)

To save someone getting in trouble, I won't say where... But I know a few train stations that don't really care if you set up a tripod on the platform (or at least, don't say anything to me personally)


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## fredevad (Mar 30, 2016)

I wonder if it also may be an issue with Amtrak or the station owner's insurance policy that doesn't allow tripods.


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## fixj (Apr 1, 2016)

KMH reports he uses a MonoPod. Have you had any problems with that? I think it would qualify as a hand held device since you are only resting it on the one leg and still have to hand hold it.Any thoughts on a MonoPod?


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## willem (Apr 1, 2016)

I have a monopod (or _monopodos_, with accent on the antepenultimate syllable) that is primarily a walking stick. I have used it for steadying both a camera and binoculars and I recommend it. A drawback is that it is not quite tall enough, since its main function is as a walking stick. Also, I would not want to leave a camera on the walking stick while I used it as a walking stick because that would subject the camera to jarring, as well as making it top heavy.

Museum guards have told me that I may not use it as a steadying device for a camera, so evidently they did not consider it a hand held device.


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## railiner (Apr 2, 2016)

They latest iphones (6S+), have 'image stabilization' feature that improve the hand-held video's to where for the most part, tripods aren't needed...sort of a poor mans Steadicam....


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 2, 2016)

fixj said:


> Any thoughts on a MonoPod?


Doesn't help enough for a proper video.



railiner said:


> They latest iphones (6S+), have 'image stabilization' feature that improve the hand-held video's to where for the most part, tripods aren't needed.


The result still looks odd in my view. I prefer videos where the focus is on the action in front of the camera rather than the movement of the camera itself.


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