# Mini Travelogue...part deux...3/20/2004



## Foodman53 (Mar 21, 2004)

What was supposed to have been a trip for both my wife and I to the Winter Park Spring Art Show turned out to be a solo trip, since my wife wasn't feeling well(...she's much better this morning, thank you!). As it turned out, #91 was an hour and a half late coming into JAX, expected to depart at 10:00 am.

Having not been to the above mentioned art show, I wasn't prepared for the number of people getting on the train to go to Winter Park(WPK). At least 40 ladies of the "Red Hat Society" were getting on(.....a "baby boomer" age chick thing......I don't really understand!!), which added a classy atmosphere to the trip. As advertised, #91 left JAX at 10:00am

Just prior to Palatka(PAK), about an hour into the trip, I walked down to the diner inquiring about lunch. I was told, rather surly like, that lunch wouldn't be served until after the train left Orlando, around 12:30 or so! With what was now a 3/4's full train(or more), it seemed that the dining car crew missed the boat on that move.....both in terms of revenue, and certainly customer service!! I was later told by an unnamed Amtrak person that the reason that the diner didn't open until after Orlando was because 90% of the passengers detrain there, including most of the sleeping car passengers.....who would othewise receive complimentary meals! A valid point, perhaps....but, one that seems "pinch penny", if customer service is the goal(!!..??)

In Palatka, 60 people got on, going to WPK. Many of these people were already "feeling no pain", having already started drinking in the wait for the train. Also, two huge coolers went on the train full of beer, booze, etc..so, for the next couple of hours, we had a rolling spring break frat party in the last car, but the party-ers were are in their 40's and 50's!!

So, between the "Red Hat Society", and the "middle age road trip"....the ride certainly wasn't boring!!

#91 arrived in WPK at 12:45. Since I'd found out earlier from "Julie" that #98 was nearly an hour behind also, I decided to return on the Meteor, rather than wait for the Star..........one, because since my wife wasn't with me, I really couldn't totally enjoy the art show.......and, two......all the drunks and the "Red Hats" were all coming back on #92, and I'd had all the fun that I could stand!!

After taking on 153 passengers in Orlando, #98 picked about 8 of us up at WPK at 2:05pm. I made a "bee line" to the diner for lunch, and they were still serving, and glad to have me!!(...go figure?). Upon meeting my lunch companion, who also got on in Winter Park, the trip got even more interesting!!

I was seated next to who I thought to be a conductor...or, he at least was dressed like the conductor, short sleeve white shirt, tie, dark vest, dark pants....passing out brochures from the Art Festival to the crew and passengers in the diner. In fact, when the train stopped in Sanford, he got off, and came right back on when it departed.

Turns out that this fellow is a railfan living in the Orlando area, who rides the train all the time on a Florida rail pass....who is known by all the crew members...who just enchanted me for the ride back to JAX with our Amtrak talk. Also, he carried a mini photo album showing 30 years worh of Amtrak trains, plus his trips to Canada riding VIA.

Anyway, he'd found out that #97 was nearly five hours late coming into JAX, so, his plan was to ride #98 up....and return to WPK on the massively delayed #97. He'd called "Julie"....and, according to her, this was easily doable.

"Julie", however, can be a fickle woman! About 10 minutes from arriving into JAX, #97 passes us going south, stranding my new friend. Unfazed, he said that he'd ride #98 to Charleston(CHS), catch #89, riding it back to Sebring(SBG), and picking up the next day's #98 there, returning to WPK upwards of 24 hours later. Now, I might have caught a taxi in Jacksonville, and taken the Greyhound back to Orlando, since there is about 15-16 buses of that type per day....each to his own!!

Anyway, I have to return to my classroom Monday, and just dare any of my students to ask me..."Sir...what did you do over Spring Breal??"


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

Well Foodman you met "the Mayor of Winter Park" as most on the crew refer to him. He's an odd character really, some like him, most don't because, well he has a tendancy to day and do things that are bad politcally and make life harder for the crew. But that's not the view shared by all.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

I think I know who your talking about. Did the "Mayor" talk to you about the canadian or the krapy new equipment.


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## Viewliner (Mar 21, 2004)

engine999 said:


> I think I know who your talking about. Did the "Mayor" talk to you about the canadian or the krapy new equipment.


Sounds like the mayor, at least from Battalion's description in the past about him talking about canadian trains.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

I have chatted with the mayor many times. If you see him he looks like an amtrak conductor. I think he takes the train within the orlando ara almost everyweekend.


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

Don't even remind me about the Canadian. :blink:


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

Did you get the lecture on the problems of the the new equipment and how you need to go on the canadian before 2005. As mutch as I would like to go, I don't exactly have that kind of cash for a sleeper.


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

I can't tell you how many times I've got that freakin lecture. :huh: All I can say is that avoidance is key.


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## Foodman53 (Mar 21, 2004)

Yes, I got the whole "treatment" about the Canadian trains, and the "crappy" Amfleet/Viewliner equipment. However, he was quite congenial and knowledgeable as Amtrak goes.

I wasn't the only one that thought he was a conductor or trainman. The LSA in the diner apologized for having to charge him for lunch...saying that now, all employees had to pay!! Also, he did detrain at both Sanford, DeLand, and Palatka and interacted with the passengers....acting "official".

The crew didn't seem to mind...actually, somewhat later in the trip, the "real" conductor acted as if he knew him.

The gentleman told me that he'd applied to Amtrak several times over the years....but, was told at his last application that he'd failed a "personality" test...(????) I never was told what he does(or did) for a living, but the answer to that question seems obvious(....a professional train rider!!).

Next to the on-time problems, my biggest issue with Amtrak is how worn out and even ill maintained that all the equipment seems to be . For an example, every coach that I sat in or walked through on every train that I rode was equipped with a TV/CCTV system.....which, if I had my guess....hadn't been operational in years, if ever!! Since the cars are "wired" for TV or movies, how hard is it to attach a VCR or DVD to it an show movies??(...not particularly, if you're 12 years old or older) Also, most of the lounge cars that I saw had both a GPS powered "Train Tracker" TV...and, even a second flush mounted set.........none of which were operational.

Now, being "railfans", and TRAINS magazine subscribers, we all know the reason....money, lack of money, or mis-spent money. But, Amtrak can't survive only on the revenue that "we" generate......It needs to attract the non-rail rider to make that first ride, and make that experience good enough to where they'll be repeat customers. But, if most everything is broken or otherwise not working.. or... the experience is less than pleasant... or, if the customer feels as if they have to play a "head game" with the crew in order to receive basic customer service....that "casual" customer will go away, never to return!! But, whether is their "fault" or not, still, after 33 years, Amtrak is still struggling with that concept!

Anyway, school starts back in the morning, and if I hear the train horns at about 7:18am, and near "high noon"....I'll know that #91 and #97 are on time here in North Jacksonville. Till I talk to you again, I remain...yours..

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

I have gotten that one probably every time I have seen him too. Its interesting talking to him once in a while, I don't think teh conductors are to happy to see him. He claims the worst thing amtrak did was get rid of the heritage stuff. The only problem is, how long it would have been cost efficient to run them.


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2004)

Foodman53 said:


> For an example, every coach that I sat in or walked through on every train that I rode was equipped with a TV/CCTV system.....which, if I had my guess....hadn't been operational in years, if ever!! Since the cars are "wired" for TV or movies, how hard is it to attach a VCR or DVD to it an show movies??(...not particularly, if you're 12 years old or older)


The problem isn't on the technology side, nor is it the inability of the crew members to operate the system, the problem lays in the area of theft. Far too many VCR's have been stolen and hundreds of tapes have vanished. I've even heard an unconfirmed story that a few employees were caught selling the first run movie tapes to counterfeiters.

There is also the slight sub-problem of needing to be careful to have un-offensive movies. In the lounge car, a parent can take the child away if he/she feels that the movie is inappropriate for the child. You can't walk away from your assigned seat in coach. At least not easily.

The equipment however at one time was indeed used. I know several people who sat in Amfleet II coaches running on a Silver Service train and watched movies.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

A few years ago when I rode the train they were showing movies in the amcans.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

Foodman53 said:


> Yes, I got the whole "treatment" about the Canadian trains, and the "crappy" Amfleet/Viewliner equipment. However, he was quite congenial and knowledgeable as Amtrak goes.


He Knows alot about the older equipment and there is some truth in what he says. You probably heard his speial about the heavy weighted diners, that don't rock as much as the amcans. From the amount of time I have rode the train i find the rocking in the amcans to be generally the same. Did he tell you how he only rides in the diners most of the time.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 21, 2004)

battalion51 said:


> Don't even remind me about the Canadian.   :blink:





> Battallion, sounds like "The Mayor" has a worse case of living in the past than I have ever had.
> 
> As much as I am looking forward to my Canadian trip,(after all, I do have a frame of refererence to it) I know it will not be perfect.
> 
> ...


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't even remind me about the Canadian.   :blink:
> ...


For the qualities you loose you gain a them back in other forms. Atleast today there is a standard of service that can be experienced on everytrain(except the very few that don't meet that) instead of one or two.


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## Foodman53 (Mar 21, 2004)

Unfortunatly, the problem with "employee theft" is the way of the world, but, not a new problem........A true story follows....On my 2nd run to NYP as a coach attendant(December, 1975)...I had received my first pay check as I left JAX going north. I put the check in a "hidden" pocket in my grip, and tossed my grip in the overhead bin above my 2 "conductor protection" seats, out of sight and out of mind! The next morning, after leaving Penn Station on the way to Sunnyside, I'd found out that you could get your pay checks cashed at Sunnyside. When I was helping passengers unload at Penn Station, I physically saw my grip, right where I'd placed it the previous afternoon. After going thru the tunnel to Sunnyside, the next time that I went to look for my grip, it was gone!!. Since no one had been in that car other than myself and some "car cleaning" ladies.....I'd figured that an employee had ripped me off, so I started "raising hell"!! ..saying that I was "leaving service" right there, and taking a taxi to LaGuardia, and flying home!! I actually told the general supervisor at SSY to get my OBS boss in Jacksonville on the phone to tell him that......Anyway, long story short...when I got back to the train, the grip had , like magic, returned, but the check was gone!! In the meantime, someone in JAX had gotten to someone at Sunnyside, and they gave me, in cash, the exact amount of my missing check! So, it was obvious that the company knew they had thieves on the premises!

So, as a former employee, I can understand theft being a problem. But, when a paying passenger sees that type of equipment in place, and after putting his hard earned dough down for the "privilige" of riding the train., they don't understand...They ask the obvious, unanswerable question ...."Why the hell doesn't this stuff work??"

It seems that as employees(past, present, and future), and as railfans, we're too prone to make excuses for Amtrak's woes, rather than holding them accountable!!

Down boy!!......Down off the "soapbox"

From the "Funnel"

Foodman53


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

Bill, one thing I would siggest in your Viewliner Standard bedroom, whn you're looking for your quick nap is to recline both seats into the flat position (much like the attendant does when they make up the lower berth at night). Grab a pillow, set your alarm and take yourself a little nap! The procedure to recline the seats all the way is a fairly simple procedure, there is a little grey foot pedal at the base of each seat. While pressing on the pedal take one hand and push the seat down fully reclining the seat, repeat on the other side, and voila, instant sofa.


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2004)

battalion51 said:


> Bill, one thing I would siggest in your Viewliner Standard bedroom, whn you're looking for your quick nap is to recline both seats into the flat position (much like the attendant does when they make up the lower berth at night). Grab a pillow, set your alarm and take yourself a little nap! The procedure to recline the seats all the way is a fairly simple procedure, there is a little grey foot pedal at the base of each seat. While pressing on the pedal take one hand and push the seat down fully reclining the seat, repeat on the other side, and voila, instant sofa.


Of course that won't help him on the Canadian, which is where he was most concerned about the lack of a couch.

But you are correct, it's very easy to drop those seats. Even in the Superliner it's not hard and basically similar.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

Dosen't the canadian have a parlour car on it for first class passengers only?


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## Foodman53 (Mar 21, 2004)

With a little "positive psychology", Amtrak could make an asset out of the "mayor" Since he is reasonably knowlegeable and quite friendly, for the price of a free "Florida Rail Pass", and a dining car meal or two per trip, Amtrak could make a "goodwill ambassador", or "traveling ombudsman" out of him. If he were channelled correctly, the passengers would enjoy him, and perhaps leave the train feeling good...rather than dwelling on any negative they encountered!!

What has Amtrak got to lose?? They've wasted far too much money over the years to accomplish much less!!

A "sobering" note. I mentioned this online forum to the "mayor" during our trip yesterday, but he said that he didn't own a computer!! Also, since he missed his connection with #97 yesterday, and was due to begin his "excellent adventure", riding 98 to CHS, connecting to 89......riding 89 to SBG, and then finally getting on today's 98.........I truly wonder if he ever got home??

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

He already is an Amtrak Ambassador. I think he likes to answer questions, I always see people approaching him as a conductor or station agent. I would assume he probably made the connection, but if he didn't he could have gotten off in savana and stayed there for 91 or 89.


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

Foodman53 said:


> With a little "positive psychology", Amtrak could make an asset out of the "mayor" Since he is reasonably knowlegeable and quite friendly, for the price of a free "Florida Rail Pass", and a dining car meal or two per trip, Amtrak could make a "goodwill ambassador", or "traveling ombudsman" out of him. If he were channelled correctly, the passengers would enjoy him, and perhaps leave the train feeling good...rather than dwelling on any negative they encountered!!
> What has Amtrak got to lose?? They've wasted far too much money over the years to accomplish much less!!


I hate to put myself and the mayor in the same category, but. There are several guys like myself, the Mayor, and a few other guys I know that do the program of, go out ride the trains, make observations, and interact with some of the passengers and crew. I think if Amtrak were to start an Ambassador program it could be very beneficial for all parties. It would make the Conductors life a lot easier if the Ambassador were able to deal with the petty little things like making announcements, answering passenger questions, and that sort of thing, leaving the Conductor able to do the on board counts, tickets, slow orders, delay reports, etc. For Amtrak it would create a second set of eyes at little to no cost for Amtrak, and also create a liason between the crew and the passenger. For the passenger it would create a knowledgable person that they can go to, who's only responsibility is to make sure they are having a good trip. Finally, for the Ambassador it gives them the oppurtunity to do what they love (ride trains) for free, and meet tons of people. It's a win-win-win-win situation.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

Its a good idea but the logisitics could be a little tricky. I think it would definatley benifit the conductors who already have enough work to do not counting settling arguments amoung passengers and answering questions about hotel locations. Would you want the liazon to be only within one state or ride the whole run?


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## battalion51 (Mar 21, 2004)

Leave it up to the Ambassador. If they've got the time to do the whole run, let them. If they only have one day, or a certain number of hours available to work let them do it that way. What I would do is have the Ambassador have a fax sent from the station they leave from to Miami letting the folks in Miami know that there's an Ambassador on board and what trains they will be working. If the Ambassador will be going overnight they should be allowed to stay in the dorm (pending space availability).


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2004)

Plus there is still a cost to Amtrak, in that they would now need to cover the members with liability insurance.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

battalion51 said:


> Leave it up to the Ambassador. If they've got the time to do the whole run, let them. If they only have one day, or a certain number of hours available to work let them do it that way. What I would do is have the Ambassador have a fax sent from the station they leave from to Miami letting the folks in Miami know that there's an Ambassador on board and what trains they will be working. If the Ambassador will be going overnight they should be allowed to stay in the dorm (pending space availability).


The mayor would be thrilled to stay in the dorm seing it is heritage equipment.  But it is a plausible idea having an ambassidor float around the state.


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2004)

engine999 said:


> But it is a plausible idea having an ambassidor float around the state.


Well not if he's in an Amtrak car. Train cars don't float very well. :lol:  

In fact they sink like lead balloons.


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## engine999 (Mar 21, 2004)

i wonder if they would see if the doors were sealed.


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## AlanB (Mar 21, 2004)

engine999 said:


> i wonder if they would see if the doors were sealed.


They'll still sink. They might go down a bit slower with the doors sealed shut, but they will go down. There are plenty of air holes in the car that the water will use to find its way in.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 22, 2004)

engine999 said:


> Dosen't the canadian have a parlour car on it for first class passengers only?





> Yes, in a way, though that is not the term used. What it has is not EXACTLY like the Pacific Parlour car, if that is what you are thinking of. But it does have an Observation-tavern-lounge-dome at the rear, and that serves the role of a "special" lounge car. (there also some sleeping car rooms in that car).
> 
> But also keep in mind that the term "parlour car" originally referred to a revenue space simiilar to what is today called business class or like Acela First class, a somewhat swanky day space revenue car. (along with coaches and sleepers, as opposed to being kin to lounges and diners). It does not have that. I suppose the shorter distance trains in Canada do, of course, as they do here, under whatever name.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 22, 2004)

AlanB said:


> battalion51 said:
> 
> 
> > Bill, one thing I would siggest in your Viewliner Standard bedroom, whn you're looking for your quick nap is to recline both seats into the flat position (much like the attendant does when they make up the lower berth at night). Grab a pillow, set your alarm and take yourself a little nap! The procedure to recline the seats all the way is a fairly simple procedure, there is a little grey foot pedal at the base of each seat. While pressing on the pedal take one hand and push the seat down fully reclining the seat, repeat on the other side, and voila, instant sofa.
> ...





> Thanks, Battallion and Alan for the help. I think I used to know how to do it, then one time found it to be too stubbron, gave up and forgot about it.


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## tp49 (Mar 22, 2004)

AlanB said:


> Plus there is still a cost to Amtrak, in that they would now need to cover the members with liability insurance.


Alan, you must have antivipated that I would say this so you just beat me to it.


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## engine999 (Mar 22, 2004)

Maybe individual states can chip in for the insurance.


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## caravanman (Mar 23, 2004)

Hi Railfans. As an intending tourist to America I have already booked on the internet a train trip from Chicago to San Francisco. I was thinking of booking a further journey from LA to Jacksonville as a way of seeing as much of your country as possible. Having read on your forums of rude train staff and much broken equipment, I am now wondering if I should change my plans to a road trip rather than rail. So what is the real picture of rail travel in the USA? Is it realy 80% hassle? Prospective virgin Amtrak train travellers like myself need an accurate impression!

Many thanks to Bill Haithcoat for replying to my request for advice. Ed.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 23, 2004)

80% hassle? I would not say so. I have 133,000 miles under my belt and about 80% of it has gone quite nicely, thank you.

Rudeness? Rudeness is everywhere....I have seen all kinds of people working on on Amtrak, but the same for planes, restaurants, stores, everywhere. Don't let the possibility of rudeness keep you back, esp for the ticket you already have.

Would you let rudeness keep you from flying? From shopping?

Broken equipment. Sure, things don't always work properly. But I don't think your seat is going to fall out onto the tracks. What about something getting "broken" in a car you would rent? Don't let the possibiltiy of some fauset spraying water too much keep you from such a neat adventure.

The Denver to Salt Lake portion of your trip from CHI to SF is probably the most beautiful mileage in the U.S.

You might want to allow some built in lateness, though, as the train from Los Angeles to Florida is well known for lateness, sometimes hours. I am sorry to say. This is seldom the fault of Amtrak, but is the fault of the frieght railroads over which Amtrak must operate. I am talking about being pulled into a siding to let the freight trains pass. Amtrak is a "visitor" on most of the tracks in this country. Just give yourself plenty of time to make your further connections in JAX.

You will have traveled two quite different routes, scenery-wise, it is a wise choice to travel both of those routes. The northern one is very mountanous and also is flat and geeen some other places. The southern route is very much desert.

Good luck---and don't let what "might happen" be an obstacle.

WAIT--I just thought of something----at some point this summer that route for that train from CHI to SF is going to be re-routed away from the Rockies, due to construction. I am not sure when your trip will be taken in relation to that. You might double check with Amtrak about that, or perhaps somebody else on this forum can help, or perhaps you can read earlier postings on here and relate that to your exact travel plans.


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## caravanman (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks again for your reply and advice,....it is now my hope to book the second leg of the trip in a day or two.

Having looked at more USA rail web sites feel I have a better over view of what Amtrak travel is like.

I looked on Amtrak's press release pages and fortunatly the Zephyr "diversion" is after my trip which will be in early May. I would like to put a report of my trip "online" , so you may see how I got on! Ed.


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## AlanB (Mar 24, 2004)

caravanman said:


> I would like to put a report of my trip "online" , so you may see how I got on! Ed.


And I would encourage you to do just that. We love to read trip reports. 

Have a great trip!


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