# 55 to 45% in Phoenix: 42 new light rail miles + bus system expands



## beautifulplanet (Aug 27, 2015)

After the light rail defeats in Pinellas County, FL, or in Austin, TX, and the streetcar that's already approved being killed in San Antonio, TX, Phoenix shows that it's still possible:

How very un-Tampa Bay: Light rail wins (again) in Phoenix electionBy Michael Van Sickler

August 26, 2015

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/baybuzz/how-very-un-tampa-bay-light-rail-wins-again-in-phoenix-election/2242858

Map of expanded bus service:







source:

http://movephx2.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Bus-Map.jpg

Expanded light rail and new BRT map






source: http://movephx2.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Rail-Map-35th-and-19th.jpg

Map of street improvements (meaning: No new highways, no new roads, no widened roads, no new flyovers/interchanges etc. - just actual street improvements - at least some might think exactly the way it should be):






source: http://movephx2.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Street-Map.jpg


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## neroden (Sep 1, 2015)

If I count correctly, Phoenix will go from operating one light rail route to operating a minimum of *four*. That's a huge increase.


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## XHRTSP (Sep 1, 2015)

Wow, I didn't even know Phoenix had light rail to begin with. I always just assumed Arizona was anti rail through and through. Any ideas if rail support in Phoenix could lead to the Sunset Limited or some other corridor service returning to the city?


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 1, 2015)

San Antonio does actually have a street car system, or at least it did last I noticed, but it's one of those silly bus based conversions.






When the city of San Antonio considered updating our public transportation options with a modern streetcar system the anti-rail Tea Party folks and a very receptive media market helped crush it before the first inch of rail could be laid. Even after the entire plan was dissolved and the money redirected to other projects aimed at appeasing the outspoken anti-rail zealots they still weren't satisfied.

Instead they insisted on altering the city charter to penalize any future passenger rail projects while leaving all other forms of transportation unhindered. And they won that battle as well. For all intents and purposes San Antonio has been transformed from a largely rail-neutral city to a staunchly anti-rail hamlet virtually overnight.

So far as I can tell this debate is not really about budgets or efficiency or any other definable ideology. It's about scaring cowardly Texans by telling them they're being "Californized" by malicious liberals with their evil trains. Seriously, the dialog is really that ridiculous. If it can happen here it can happen anywhere the Tea Party is strong enough and the media is receptive enough to hold back progress.



XHRTSP said:


> Any ideas if rail support in Phoenix could lead to the Sunset Limited or some other corridor service returning to the city?


If a one time schedule change on the current route was going to cost Amtrak $700 million dollars then I shudder to think what a whole new stop over disused ROW would cost. Maybe another billion or two?

In any case *welcome back BP.*


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## neroden (Sep 2, 2015)

There is now local rail in Phoenix and Tucson. The likely next step is the long-proposed many-times-a-day passenger rail between Phoenix and Tucson.

http://www.azdot.gov/planning/CurrentStudies/PassengerRail

It might cost billions but the demand is high, especially now that both cities have local rail at the ends of the route, so there is actually has a decent chance of building it.

The thing is, nobody's going to do anything for the three-a-week Sunset Limited. Probably not even for a daily Sunset Limited.


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## Eric S (Sep 2, 2015)

From what I've read, the Tucson streetcar has been one of the more successful of the recently built streetcars.

That Phoenix light rail map, with proposed extensions, certainly creates some interesting choices for routing and branches. It looks like there could be 3 branches to the north of downtown. At any rate, it's very exciting to see Phoenix planning and funding a significant increase in transit service, and not focusing exclusively on rail but also greatly improving bus service.

I agree with Neroden that this makes Phoenix-Tucson intercity rail more promising, but not sure what it will take to make it actually happen.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 2, 2015)

Better political leadership will help!

The money has to come from somewhere and Arizona is very hesitant to raise taxes, and money from Washington for transportation projects is highly competitive!

It is encouraging to see that Tucson and Phoenix are making excellent progress on expanding their public transportation!

However,Arizona is the State where a Terrorist Group blew up the tracks where the Sunset Ltd. runs, and the T- Party ( no connection to the terrorists) is very active in opposing tax increases and government spending!

Also, their Senior Senator,John McCain, said on the floor of the Senate when Amtrak funding was under debate: "Amtrak doesn't serve my state!" (well except for the Southwest Chief and the Sunset Ltd.)

He then Voted No on funding Amtrak!


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## Tokkyu40 (Sep 7, 2015)

XHRTSP said:


> Wow, I didn't even know Phoenix had light rail to begin with. I always just assumed Arizona was anti rail through and through. Any ideas if rail support in Phoenix could lead to the Sunset Limited or some other corridor service returning to the city?


Part of the long term (very long term) transportation plan is regional rail to Yuma over the Wellton Cutoff. If that happens then the Eagle and Sunset would return to Phoenix.

First they need to stop planning the Phoenix-Tucson rail line and actually build it.


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## bretton88 (Sep 7, 2015)

Arizona estimated that it would cost about 150 million to bring the Welton Cutoff into passenger service. This includes upgrading of the existing in service Phoenix subdivision and installation of PTC.


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## Eric S (Sep 10, 2015)

Interestingly enough, Arizona released a study of Phoenix-Tucson intercity rail. There were a number of articles in various media outlets in the last couple days. Here is a link to the ADOT page.

I haven't had a chance to read through it.


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