# What are the best and worst commuter rails in the U.S.?



## Mystic River Dragon (Feb 3, 2020)

I have been wondering about this for a while. I looked this up online, assuming that NJ Transit would of course be listed as the worst but not knowing which is the best. I didn't even come up with any reference to NJT as the worst!

So I'll just ask the experts--all of you!

Which has the reputation as the best commuter rail in the country? I don't mean by ridership numbers, but rather by quality of the commute, helpfulness of the staff, etc.

Where does my personal favorite, Virginia Railway Express, fit in?

And how come NJT doesn't get dozens of mentions and get ripped to shreds when I search for "worst commuter rail in the U.S.?"


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## TinCan782 (Feb 3, 2020)

Not able to compare but, I ride Southern California's Metrolink for my daily commute...about 50 minutes each way to LA Union Station.
Been a rider for more than 6 years and I'm satisfied with the service.


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## flitcraft (Feb 3, 2020)

The best commuter rail is the one that has a station convenient to where you live and other stations convenient to where you work and shop. The worst commuter rail are the lines that never got built.


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## Eric S (Feb 3, 2020)

flitcraft said:


> The best commuter rail is the one that has a station convenient to where you live and other stations convenient to where you work and shop.



I might add to that "and that offers service at times that are convenient to you."


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## fairviewroad (Feb 3, 2020)

This is very subjective, and it's hard (IMO) to compare a comprehensive, 7-day a week commuter rail network to a niche system like VRE that operates peak-only service on a couple of lines.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Feb 4, 2020)

Thank you all for the replies. I see, except for the first one, that I made my question very broad and that it is, of course, not possible to compare different types.

I'd like to narrow the focus (as in FrensicPic's reply above).

What commuter rail would you look forward to taking because the commute would be one of the best parts of the day? (Clean, on-time trains, polite and helpful conductors, trains hardly ever cancelled, reason for any delays explained immediately.)

What commuter rail would make you think of retiring early, even if you love your job, because the commute is so unpredictable and unpleasant? (Dirty trains, trains cancelled on short notice for an assortment of excuses, trains coming to a halt and just sitting there with no announcements, arrogant management.) I am of course thinking of NJT, but there could be others. I did not put impolite conductors in here, because even the worst commuter rail can have polite and helpful conductors--I've found that on NJT.


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## Bonser (Feb 4, 2020)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> Thank you all for the replies. I see, except for the first one, that I made my question very broad and that it is, of course, not possible to compare different types.
> 
> I'd like to narrow the focus (as in FrensicPic's reply above).
> 
> ...



On the positive I'd put the Rail Runner in ABQ on top. Great on all levels.


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## jiml (Feb 4, 2020)

flitcraft said:


> The best commuter rail is the one that has a station convenient to where you live and other stations convenient to where you work and shop. The worst commuter rail are the lines that never got built.





Eric S said:


> I might add to that "and that offers service at times that are convenient to you."


The right answer!


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## Barb Stout (Feb 4, 2020)

Tom Booth said:


> On the positive I'd put the Rail Runner in ABQ on top. Great on all levels.


Ha! You took the words right out of my mouth. Great discounts available also. Also with convenient scheduling relative to city buses and Amtrak.


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## railiner (Feb 4, 2020)

Today, with public ownership, many, if not most commuter rail lines are pretty highly rated by their commuter's. So unless some expert company like JD Power conducts an objective survey, if that is possible, it would be hard to determine which one is 'best'.

Back in the waning days of private operation, I recall the C&NW as standing out as a progressive, and innovative carrier, that received many accolades for its service and operation. Especially in comparison to the PC...


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## basketmaker (Feb 4, 2020)

Though Denver RTD is not what would be considered a real "commuter rail" though they do operate some heavy rail to some outlying areas. They are canceling 15-20 trips a day and running delays on about the same number on routes. They cannot get enough operators! They offer sign-on bonus but apparently they don't pay squat as a salary.


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## mlanoue (Feb 4, 2020)

Don't know if it qualifies as best in any way, but I've always been pretty happy with Metra. They have lots of routes, even if some of them don't offer a mcuh frequency. The Rock Island line isn't all that exciting, but there are a lot of frequencies and the trains are usually pretty clean. It seems like there are more delays on the BNSF and UP routes, but they are also much busier.


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## John Santos (Feb 4, 2020)

When I commuted regularly on the MBTA, it was fairly horrible but much better driving. (That was in the early to mid 1970's! But things haven't changed much: the "new" equipment is still 30 years old and was bought used, but they do run many more lines with more frequent service and for longer periods each day. Used to be the last train left Boston about 7:30 PM. They now run to midnight.)

One time my train unaccountably stopped just short of Canton Junction. The crew said they had no idea what was going on and got off and were wandering around looking at things. Finally the conductor got back on and announced they thought they had run out of fuel. But there was no fuel gauge (or at least not a working one), so they weren't sure. After another hour, an engine arrived and pushed us the rest of the way. Fortunately, this was on a quiet summer Saturday afternoon and there wasn't much traffic for us to obstruct. Long before the line was electrified and before Amtrak NEC or Acellas were using the same line.

They still use diesels despite the fact the line was electrified 30 years ago, but they recently borrowed a couple of electric locos from Amtrak to "conduct tests" sometime this spring, maybe. I suppose they are waiting for Amtrak to buy a bunch of new electric locomotives and sell the current ones to other commuter railroads, so those railroads can sell their really old locomotives to the T.

Meanwhile, in the news today, they are planning to build a 700' office/condo tower in the middle of South Station, which requires closing 70% of the concourse and 50% of the access doors to the platforms for 5 to 6 years during construction. Meanwhile installing fare gates which are guaranteed to cause further bottlenecks.

The reason for the fare gates is because the trains are so crowded the crews can't get through the cars to scan all the tickets or passes before the train reaches its destination, so they have no idea how many people aren't paying their fares. (My guess is actually not that many since most of the commuters use monthly passes and have paid for the trip even if it hasn't been recorded.) Of course, the commuter rail passes are not compatible with the T's Charlie Card system used on the subways and buses. And they have waved their hands about making the gates accept Amtrak tickets, but who knows? They will have to have special gates and personnel to allow through wheelchairs and people with a lot of luggage, and porters and train servicing people with big carts full of luggage and food and supplies. My guess is whenever there are long lines (like every day during rush hour), they will just open the special wide gates and wave everyone through, defeating the whole purpose.

They claim this will only add 5-10 minutes to an average commute. Every day. Five days a week, 52 weeks per year. 87 hours, or over two work-weeks per year. Which is over $5000 per passenger at minimum wage for each and every passenger. And remember they always underestimate the inconvenience factor of any project like this. Because the real estate developers aren't paying the $5000, the customers are.

What they really need to do is increase the size, frequency and number of trains, but there aren't enough tracks. Next door, there is a very large surplus Post Office facility that they have been negotiation to acquire since the 1980's, but no one knows if that is ever going to happen.

Meanwhile, there is major construction going on at the other two main Boston stations, Back Bay and North Station. They are about to start a huge project that will take at least twenty years, to replace an elevated section of the Mass Turnpike (I-90) that runs next to/on top of the Framingham/Worcester/LSL branch. (This is the fastest growing branch of the commuter rail system.) The highway construction will involve re-aligning the train tracks through an abandoned rail yard, building the new highway through the existing ROW, building a new station (West Station) in the same location, and a lot of other construction. The bad part, from a rail standpoint, is they are planning to reduce the line to a single track for about 5 years. Will they electrify the line while all this is happening (or put up the catenary, even if they don't replace the equipment yet)? No sign of it.

Not to mention all the bad service, mechanical breakdowns, weather problems, ancient rolling stock, all made worse by the increased ridership due to Boston having the worst traffic in the country.

see: https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/02/03/south-station-tower-construction, https://whdh.com/news/gridlock-expected-at-south-station-due-to-construction/ and https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/02...outh-station-riders-brace-serious-disruption/


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 4, 2020)

Informative post, thanks for sharing!

I do question the part about Boston having the worst traffic, I'm very familiar with Washington DC( ever been on the Beltway during Rush Hours), Chicago,LA, Houston,Atlanta and Austin where I now live.

Boston can't be worse than those Hell on Wheels Places!


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## Pere Flyer (Feb 4, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Informative post, thanks for sharing!
> 
> I do question the part about Boston having the worst traffic, I'm very familiar with Washington DC( ever been on the Beltway during Rush Hours), Chicago,LA, Houston,Atlanta and Austin where I now live.
> 
> Boston can't be worse than those Hell on Wheels Places!



It may not be worse, but it’s just as bad


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## jis (Feb 4, 2020)

I have the impression that for sheer size, frequency of service, convenience, and generally good OTP, Metro North is right up there close to the best, if not the best.This would be "East of Hudson" MNRR. 

West of Hudson service which is actually run by NJT for Metro North is a different matter and suffers from the same malady that afflicts NJT. MNRR has actually been withholding payments to NJT for failure to meet contract obligations. Kind of ironic considering Governor Christie tried to claim that Amtrak was not meeting its obligations to NJT and withheld payments for a while. One would suspect that it was a ruse to deflect incompetence from himself in that case.


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## Palmetto (Feb 5, 2020)

Boston should rank right up there with the worst. There's hardly a day goes by that some operational irregularity doesn't occur. Methinks alot of cheating goes on there, as well. Early retirement with fat pensions does cause some wonderment for those of us who are watching.


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## adamj023 (Feb 5, 2020)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> I have been wondering about this for a while. I looked this up online, assuming that NJ Transit would of course be listed as the worst but not knowing which is the best. I didn't even come up with any reference to NJT as the worst!
> 
> So I'll just ask the experts--all of you!
> 
> ...



I never had problems when I used NJ Transit before. I know they have had some issues but I doubt they are the worst. Can’t comment on the best as there are so many and most of them get you to where you need to go.


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## blueman271 (Feb 5, 2020)

adamj023 said:


> I never had problems when I used NJ Transit before. I know they have had some issues but I doubt they are the worst. Can’t comment on the best as there are so many and most of them get you to where you need to go.


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/traffic/...ours-long-delays-at-nys-penn-station/2277293/

You don’t read or get out much do you?


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## fairviewroad (Feb 5, 2020)

blueman271 said:


> https://www.nbcnewyork.com/traffic/...ours-long-delays-at-nys-penn-station/2277293/
> 
> You don’t read or get out much do you?



The dude literally said he's used NJ Transit and hasn't experienced any problems. That could easily be true. 

Like any commuter rail system, NJT has had their bad days. You wouldn't have to look far to find equally incriminating articles about Metra, SEPTA, Metro-North, etc. People are far more familiar with the flaws in the system they use the most. 

It could be that NJT is still subjectively "the worst" but your personal insult in uncalled for, IMO.


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## Qapla (Feb 5, 2020)

I live in Florida - in an area where there are no commuter trains at all.

I have ridden on NJT, PATH and MTA when visiting up there - from my perspective they all worked quite well ... they got me from where I was to where I wanted to go.

Guess it all depends on how you look at "good" and/or "bad" when it comes to the service.


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## VAtrainfan (Feb 5, 2020)

I've never had any occasion to use Norfolk's light rail, The Tide. I live on the other side of the river in P-town which has nothing but infrequent buses.

Of the cities I have visited with commuter rail, Toronto's was quite efficient although my GPS got me lost trying to find the parking lot for the station. The DC Metro has been 50/50 with getting me there vs. bustitution. I have never had a good experience on MARC. And it's been over a decade since I rode MARTA so I'll withhold outdated judgment.


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## jis (Feb 5, 2020)

I can honestly say that in the last two years NJT has forced me to Uberstitute to make it to scheduled meetings on time due to their odd habit of canceling a train at the last moment with the next available scheduled an hour later but is also known to be running a half hour behind schedule. This has happened to me five times in the last two years, all on the Morris and Essex Line. 

The excuse always was “equipment problem”, which frequent users of NJTRO tell me is often an euphemism for “could not find staff to run the train”.


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## Thirdrail7 (Feb 5, 2020)

flitcraft said:


> The best commuter rail is the one that has a station convenient to where you live and other stations convenient to where you work and shop. The worst commuter rail are the lines that never got built.



This is the bottom line. To me, a transit system doesn't have to be perfect. It needs to be convenient.


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## Bonser (Feb 6, 2020)

I'll chime in again. Montreal's Metro is right up there. Am not sure it qualifies as a commuter train as it is mostly intra city. But it's terrific - fast, frequent and reliable.


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 6, 2020)

NJT not being the worst would scare me. Traveling from NYC to places within NJ works poorly.

Traveling from one place in NJ to another that is not on the same line is, hmm how do I describe this without making it seem like they intentionally make it as bad as possible? I can’t. Because given how everything manages to misconnect by a minute or two, they must actually be trying.

Example: I live on the RiverLine, and my parents live off the 832 bus out of Redbank. I take an off peak riverline to Trenton, and I need to arrive 28 minutes before the connecting Northeast Corridor train. I would then change at Rahway where I would then have to wait 56 minutes for the North Jersey Coast Line train. I would then get off at Red Bank and wait 58 minutes for the 832 bus.

I’m not talking about how it 4 hours to complete a 45 minute drive; I get it’s a wheel and spoke system. I’m talking about how up to 142 minutes of that trip- two hours and twenty two minutes- is spent because they can’t schedule trains and busses to connect, and perfectly so.

On top of that, they randomly cancel trains because they have so abused their crew that they can’t retain enough of them to run the trains. They don’t plan around that, either. So any of those long waits can at any time become an hour longer. Or both train connections.

proof it’s intentional? It mmiscobnects just as perfectly in the other direction, too!


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## saxman (Feb 6, 2020)

Systems that have good coverage with good frequencies at non-peak times is what I like. I hate the systems that only run inbound at AM rush hour and out bound at PM. ACE and Sounder comes to mind for that. MARC and VRE seem to have bad frequencies as well. Austin and DCTA (Denton, TX) started out this way, but has somewhat improved since then. Lines that force you to transfer just to get to a major destination is also annoying to me. DCTA does this by only stopping at the northern DART station for commuters to get to Dallas. That alone kills ridership, even from this railfan, me! 

Looking at MetroLink's map is impressive. They have great coverage throughout SoCal, but it's different story when you check the timetables. Some lines only run during rush hour with no weekend service. Other full service lines stop running around 6-7 PM making it useless for a huge chunk of potential riders. One of transit's biggest demographic comes from the service industry employees. As you know, service industry doesn't work 8-5 on weekdays. 

Metra is pretty good although I don't really like the gallery cars when you have luggage. Jis mentioned Metro North and I've never had a problem with LIRR either. Tri-Rail, Trinity Railway Express, and Caltrain come to mind for having decent headways throughout the day and evening for being in such car oriented places. You can beat Denver's A Line from the airport to downtown either. 15 minute headways is impressive.

I'm not familiar enough with Front Runner (Salt Lake), Coaster, RailRunner, or SunRail to make a judgement though.


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## Qapla (Feb 6, 2020)

For what it is, SunRail is OK.

It starts early in the day and runs fairly late at night - but it is not 24 hour
The trains are fairly ADA accessible as are the stations
The stations are all outside with only a roof over them
This make then a rather warm place to wait for much of the year
If it is raining and the wind is blowing, you can get wet while waiting
They do have people at each station to assist with questions and/or ticket kiosks

They share the same tracks as Amtrak and freight trains
Many of the stations have good parking
Due to political turmoil and shortsightedness, the North end terminates at DeBary
It was supposed to terminate at Deland
There were plans to extend from Deland to Daytona
Deland has decided not financially to support the trains killing expansion plans

It basically runs through the middle of Orlando and does not have any spurs of the main line
Seems to be fairly reliable and has a decent OTP report
It does NOT run on Weekends 
So, I'm not sure it this makes it near the top or the bottom of the list as far as good or bad


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 6, 2020)

Lots of good systems, ( of course nothing is perfect)but per capata I have to say that Chicago,New York,( old systems)Portland,LA and Dallas-Ft Worth ( Newer systems)do the best job overall.

I'm especially impressed that 2 of the "Cars are King" Cities, LA and the DFW Metroplex have rapidly and reasonably built very good systems!

NJT,Washington DC and the Bay Area have to be the Worst, I'm not that familiar with Bostons system, but it's better than nothing!


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## railiner (Feb 7, 2020)

Moving from a transit stronghold (NYC) to South Florida, I wasn't expecting very much...but I was pleasantly surprised by the schedule that Tri-Rail offers. It comes in real handy for me when I fly standby from NYC back to Florida...If I can't get to my home airport PBI, I can also try MIA or FLL, and hop on a Tri-Rail train to get home.


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## fairviewroad (Feb 7, 2020)

Qapla said:


> For what it is, SunRail is OK.
> 
> It starts early in the day and runs fairly late at night - but it is not 24 hour



With the exception of the Long Island Rail Road, I don't think there are any commuter rail systems in the US that run 24 hours a day. City transit systems, sure. But not conventional suburb-to-city heavy rail systems. There are a couple of NYC-area lines that come close, notably the NJT's NEC line and Metro-North's New Haven Line. But of course New York City is really in its own category, transit-wise. 

At any rate, saying that Sunrail doesn't run round-the-clock isn't a real knock against it. The lack of weekend service in a region that's heavy with service-sector jobs is a real deal-killer, though.


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## MARC Rider (Feb 8, 2020)

VAtrainfan said:


> The DC Metro has been 50/50 with getting me there vs. bustitution. I have never had a good experience on MARC.



Funny, I rode the DC metro and MARC daily for almost 20 years before I retired last year. While DC Metro certainly did go downhill during that period, I never had a problem that required bustitution, except for once when there was a flood on the Mall. I could count on the fingers of two hands the number of times the MARC trains were really screwed up. Some were stuff like the earthquake, the time high winds blew tree branches on to the catenary, the flood where they made everybody get off at New Carrolton, etc. Most of the frustrations were delays in the afternoon due to heavy traffic (not enough infrastructure to handle the PM rush) or heat restrictions, or getting stuck behind broken down Amtrak trains  .

I can't say that MARC is the best in the country (for one thing, I wish they'd gp more places more frequently), but as a frequent user, I was generally satisfied. And my last few trips on the DC Metro suggest that they've turned the corner.


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## Night Ranger (Feb 8, 2020)

MARC Rider said:


> Funny, I rode the DC metro and MARC daily for almost 20 years before I retired last year. While DC Metro certainly did go downhill during that period, I never had a problem that required bustitution, except for once when there was a flood on the Mall. I could count on the fingers of two hands the number of times the MARC trains were really screwed up. Some were stuff like the earthquake, the time high winds blew tree branches on to the catenary, the flood where they made everybody get off at New Carrolton, etc. Most of the frustrations were delays in the afternoon due to heavy traffic (not enough infrastructure to handle the PM rush) or heat restrictions, or getting stuck behind broken down Amtrak trains  .
> 
> I can't say that MARC is the best in the country (for one thing, I wish they'd gp more places more frequently), but as a frequent user, I was generally satisfied. And my last few trips on the DC Metro suggest that they've turned the corner.



I was in the DC area last fall and that was my impression too but more so for the Metro as I had the greater number of trips on it.


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## Seaboard92 (Feb 8, 2020)

TriMet in my opinion is horribly inefficient. 

West side Express
-Runs from Wilsonville to Beaverton where you must transfer to A Max train to go downtown. And usually they don’t seam to be timed to each other. 
-Only runs in the AM and PM rush. 

MAX
-Good luck getting a connection at Pioneer Courthouse Square I’ve had to wait 25 minutes at rush hour from the Red to the Orange Line. 
-Trains not running near the schedule especially late at night. 
-Road traffic oftentimes messes up the downtown core. 
-Doesn’t connect well with the Portland Streetcar


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## Maglev (Feb 8, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> TriMet in my opinion is horribly inefficient.



When I was there a couple weeks ago, I didn't see any trains longer than two cars.


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## neroden (Feb 9, 2020)

fairviewroad said:


> With the exception of the Long Island Rail Road, I don't think there are any commuter rail systems in the US that run 24 hours a day. City transit systems, sure. But not conventional suburb-to-city heavy rail systems. There are a couple of NYC-area lines that come close, notably the NJT's NEC line and Metro-North's New Haven Line. But of course New York City is really in its own category, transit-wise.


Metra (Chicago) also has lines which run 5 AM - 11 PM. This is usually fine. It's useful to have some sort of middle-of-the-night maintenance window.


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## Siegmund (Feb 10, 2020)

neroden said:


> Metra (Chicago) also has lines which run 5 AM - 11 PM. This is usually fine. It's useful to have some sort of middle-of-the-night maintenance window.



The new downtown-to-Airport line in Denver is advertised to run 22 hours a day (closed 1am-3am) though the actual gap between last and first trains in a given direction is 2h45m.

I'm willing to call that running "all the time."


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## railiner (Feb 10, 2020)

I'd say this timetable qualifies as 24-7... 
http://www.ridepatco.org/pdf/PATCO_Timetable_2019-12-07.pdf


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## Eric S (Feb 10, 2020)

If we're sticking to "commuter rail" then I think LIRR is the only 24/7 operation, although as others have mentioned Metro-North and RTD (Denver) come close. If we're expanding to include rapid transit/subway/metro (and potentially light rail), like PATCO, then there are a few such operations.


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## jebr (Feb 10, 2020)

neroden said:


> Metra (Chicago) also has lines which run 5 AM - 11 PM. This is usually fine. It's useful to have some sort of middle-of-the-night maintenance window.



The problem I have with that sort of service is that often there's no fallback bus service during that window. On many lines it may not be terribly efficient, but even having something as an obvious fallback when missing the last train of the night (that won't cost significantly more, as a 40-mile taxi/ridehail ride would) should be considered necessary to be considered top-quality in terms of service standard.


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## Qapla (Feb 10, 2020)

Not sure what category it fits into ... but, isn't the PATH train 24/7?


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## railiner (Feb 10, 2020)

PATH indeed operates 24-7, but it is really more like a subway system. Patco is more like commuter rail, albeit a fairly short route, that does use a former subway line to get into Philly...


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## Qapla (Feb 10, 2020)

You have to forgive those of us who live in rural Florida where there are no commuter trains, subways, light rail or whatever other category they fit into ... we have to drive a distance just to ride Amtrak - so, we may not use the correct term for the various rail types since we do not really know what makes one different than the other.


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 11, 2020)

railiner said:


> I'd say this timetable qualifies as 24-7...
> http://www.ridepatco.org/pdf/PATCO_Timetable_2019-12-07.pdf


 PATCO is a heavy rail subway operation, not a commuter railroad.


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 11, 2020)

Tom Booth said:


> I'll chime in again. Montreal's Metro is right up there. Am not sure it qualifies as a commuter train as it is mostly intra city. But it's terrific - fast, frequent and reliable.


 Montreal's Metro is a heavy rail/subway operation, not a commuter railroad.


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## Qapla (Feb 11, 2020)

To help those of us who "confuse" the types of rail:


> *Commuter rail*, or *suburban rail*, is a passenger rail transport service that primarily operates within a metropolitan area, connecting commuters to a central city from adjacent suburbs or commuter towns. Generally commuter rail systems are considered heavy rail, using electrified or diesel trains. Distance charges or zone pricing may be used.
> 
> The term can refer to systems with a wide variety of different features and service frequencies, but is often used in contrast to rapid transit or light rail.
> 
> ...


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## jis (Feb 11, 2020)

In the US, FRA uses the following specific definitions of terms:

Light Rail (49 CFR 1580.3):


> *Light rail* transit *means* service provided by self-propelled electric railcars, typically drawing power from an overhead wire, operating in either exclusive or non-exclusive rights-of-way in single or multiple cars and with shorter distance trips and frequent stops; also referred to as streetcars, trolleys, and trams.



Heavy Rail (49 CFR 1580.3):


> *Heavy rail* transit *means* service provided by self-propelled electric railcars, typically drawing power from a third *rail*, operating in separate rights-of-way in multiple cars; also referred to as subways, metros, or regional *rail*.



Commuter Rail (49 CFR 1580.3): 


> *Commuter* passenger *train* service *means* “*train*, *commuter*” as *defined* in 49 *CFR* 238.5, and includes a *railroad* operation that ordinarily uses diesel or electric powered locomotives and *railroad* passenger cars to serve an urban area, its suburbs, and more distant outlying communities in the greater metropolitan area.



OTOH 49 CFR 221.5 for its purposes defines Commuter Rail as:


> Commuter train means a short haul passenger train operating on track which is part of the general railroad system of transportation, within an urban, suburban or metropolitan area. It includes a passenger train provided by an instrumentality of a State or political subdivision thereof.



And for the curious 49 CFR 238.5 has this to say:


> Train, commuter means a passenger train providing commuter service within an urban, suburban, or metropolitan area. The term includes a passenger train provided by an instrumentality of a State or a political subdivision of a State.


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## Qapla (Feb 11, 2020)

Well  that's clear as mud


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## jis (Feb 12, 2020)

The bottom line is that of the three, only Commuter Rail falls exclusively in the domain of the FRA. Light and Heavy Rail are generally governed by the FTA, barring an exception or two. The exceptions are due to historical reasons (e.g. PATH) or the hybrid nature of the system, like DLRT running on FRA governed tracks (e.g. NJT RiverLINE). Of course the new version of the Stadler DMUs are arguably fully Commuter Rail capable FRA governable units.

In Europe there is the developing concept of Tram-Trains, which the US seems to have shied away from so far, though NJT RiverLINE is a clear example of that. The Japanese have had these Commuter EMUs that become Subway trains within the city, running direct service from outlying areas to city center underground stations sharing tracks with city Subway trains. This is also uncommon in the US.


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## railiner (Feb 12, 2020)

Sort of like the Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin interurban railroad sharing the CTA Loop in Chicago....


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## me_little_me (Feb 13, 2020)

You should ask my 9 y/o grandson. He's been on most of the rail transit systems around the country from Tri-rail, Sunrail and Brighline in Fla up the coast to to the Boston T and west to California (all systems SFO to San Diego) and that includes NJT, Septa, Baltimore light rail, NYC subways, Metro North, LIRR, PATH and Staten Island RR, VRE, MARC, Cleveland RTD, Chicago, Dallas, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Atlanta (where he lives) and even in Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto. I estimate he's been on 40 or more transit systems. They're heading up to the Northwest and Alaska this summer. He'll pick up a bunch more.

I gave up tracking the list but I think his mom has kept it up.


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## BCL (Feb 20, 2020)

Maybe I could throw in a good word for Caltrain - from San Francisco to San Jose (with a few trains to Gilroy). They're typically on time, although there are unfortunate delays to to "trespasser incidents". It's pretty clean, most passengers keep to themselves, and the employees are generally pleasant. They run 7 days a week, on holidays, and run a full schedule in both directions all day.

It has changed since they moved to a fare checking system. I think at this point most passengers use the interagency Clipper fare card, and fare checkers (who have a different job than the conductors) either ask to see paper tickets or use readers to check people's Clipper cards. I fondly remember when one would buy traditional punched tickets either at the stations with ticket offices or sometimes directly from the conductors. There were some stations that didn't have ticket offices and there wouldn't be a surcharge for buying on the train, or if it was a weekend or holiday where the ticket offices were closed. Then of course the tickets would be placed on clips near the seats in the traditional manner.

And I guess the kicker is that it's one of the last commuter train systems that allows riders to consume their own alcohol. The first time I'd ridden in a while was with my kid. And there were some groups that brought cases of craft beer to drink. Then when I asked a conductor about some of the stuff he witnessed, and he said some riders would bring bottles of liquor and they would be downing shots. I boarded once with a bottle of Corona (don't judge) and in my kid's stroller's cup holder. The conductor said "you're good with that, but you're supposed to fold the stroller before boarding."


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## Bonser (Feb 20, 2020)

BCL said:


> Maybe I could throw in a good word for Caltrain - from San Francisco to San Jose (with a few trains to Gilroy). They're typically on time, although there are unfortunate delays to to "trespasser incidents". It's pretty clean, most passengers keep to themselves, and the employees are generally pleasant. They run 7 days a week, on holidays, and run a full schedule in both directions all day.
> 
> It has changed since they moved to a fare checking system. I think at this point most passengers use the interagency Clipper fare card, and fare checkers (who have a different job than the conductors) either ask to see paper tickets or use readers to check people's Clipper cards. I fondly remember when one would buy traditional punched tickets either at the stations with ticket offices or sometimes directly from the conductors. There were some stations that didn't have ticket offices and there wouldn't be a surcharge for buying on the train, or if it was a weekend or holiday where the ticket offices were closed. Then of course the tickets would be placed on clips near the seats in the traditional manner.
> 
> And I guess the kicker is that it's one of the last commuter train systems that allows riders to consume their own alcohol. The first time I'd ridden in a while was with my kid. And there were some groups that brought cases of craft beer to drink. Then when I asked a conductor about some of the stuff he witnessed, and he said some riders would bring bottles of liquor and they would be downing shots. I boarded once with a bottle of Corona (don't judge) and in my kid's stroller's cup holder. The conductor said "you're good with that, but you're supposed to fold the stroller before boarding."



I'll second the rec for Caltrain. I've only used maybe 15 times (counting the old SP) but it was on time, clean and comfortable every trip.


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## MARC Rider (Feb 20, 2020)

Unless 


BCL said:


> Maybe I could throw in a good word for Caltrain - from San Francisco to San Jose (with a few trains to Gilroy). They're typically on time, although there are unfortunate delays to to "trespasser incidents". It's pretty clean, most passengers keep to themselves, and the employees are generally pleasant. They run 7 days a week, on holidays, and run a full schedule in both directions all day.
> 
> It has changed since they moved to a fare checking system. I think at this point most passengers use the interagency Clipper fare card, and fare checkers (who have a different job than the conductors) either ask to see paper tickets or use readers to check people's Clipper cards. I fondly remember when one would buy traditional punched tickets either at the stations with ticket offices or sometimes directly from the conductors. There were some stations that didn't have ticket offices and there wouldn't be a surcharge for buying on the train, or if it was a weekend or holiday where the ticket offices were closed. Then of course the tickets would be placed on clips near the seats in the traditional manner.
> 
> And I guess the kicker is that it's one of the last commuter train systems that allows riders to consume their own alcohol. The first time I'd ridden in a while was with my kid. And there were some groups that brought cases of craft beer to drink. Then when I asked a conductor about some of the stuff he witnessed, and he said some riders would bring bottles of liquor and they would be downing shots. I boarded once with a bottle of Corona (don't judge) and in my kid's stroller's cup holder. The conductor said "you're good with that, but you're supposed to fold the stroller before boarding."


Unless they've changed the rules since I retired, it's permissible to consume your own ethanol-based beverage on the MARC trains. I distinctly remember the "party section" on the 5:20 out of Washington. I didn't join because I usually had to do the driving home from Penn Station.


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## John Bredin (Feb 20, 2020)

BCL said:


> Maybe I could throw in a good word for Caltrain - from San Francisco to San Jose (with a few trains to Gilroy). [snip]And I guess the kicker is that it's one of the last commuter train systems that allows riders to consume their own alcohol.


Metra allows booze on the trains, except for a fairly short list of events including music festivals and the St. Patrick's parades. https://metrarail.com/riding-metra/alcohol-restrictions 21 days out of 365 isn't bad.


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## BCL (Feb 21, 2020)

John Bredin said:


> Metra allows booze on the trains, except for a fairly short list of events including music festivals and the St. Patrick's parades. https://metrarail.com/riding-metra/alcohol-restrictions 21 days out of 365 isn't bad.



Caltrain has an event day open alcohol container ban after 9 PM away from certain events. But it's a limited number of events like after San Francisco Giants night games or San Jose Sharks games. I'm looking at it now, and they have added Chase Center, San Jose Earthquakes games, and maybe Levi's Stadium events. The latter two aren't that close to a station though, but riders would transfer from some other service.

http://www.caltrain.com/riderinfo/specialevents.html

So from San Francisco it might be for any Warriors game or concert as well as baseball games (and the occasional concert). From San Jose it's every Sharks game. They don't seem to have a list, although I'm sure they have a notice on their Twitter page for any day alcohol is stopped at 9 PM.

I'm not sure how anyone going to an event is supposed to bring alcohol aboard since one can't bring alcohol in or out of most venues. However, I understand there's a convenience store at the 4th and King (San Francisco) Caltrain station that sells beer.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Feb 21, 2020)

They pick up stuff at the convenience stores on their way to the station - or in the station bars. Most of the bars in the various Metra stations downtown (except Van Buren and maybe LaSalle) have bars that, iirc, offer take-out booze.


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## Green Maned Lion (Feb 22, 2020)

See? Some of these commuter lines still allow people to enjoy life on their trains. ^_^


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