# VIA Rail's Canadian



## CSXfoamer1997 (Mar 9, 2016)

The Canadian took the Canadian Mountain Passes route up until 1991. Why was it rerouted from the CMP route?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 9, 2016)

Which pass again? They rerouted it to serve essential services communities along the CN route when the other transcontinental train was canceled on that route.


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Mar 9, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Which pass again? They rerouted it to serve essential services communities along the CN route when the other transcontinental train was canceled on that route.


The Canadian Mountain Passes, which include Rogers Pass and Kicking Horse Pass.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 9, 2016)

The reason is the same...


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## zephyr17 (Mar 9, 2016)

I have never heart the term Canadian Mountain Passes as a proper name reference to Kicking Horse and Rogers Passes. Yellowhead Pass is as Canadian as the other two. They are all Canadian mountain passes.

There are a lot of political reasons it was re-routed, and it all boiled down to savings, as the 1990 retrenchment was a major downsize. One of the main ones was CN was still a government corporation at that time, and I think there were some savings to be had and it was easier. I think there were some personnel issues, too. They were still running with railroad operating crews (including conductors at that time), and I dimly recall that having something to do with it. CP was always privately owned.

Arguably the CN route was more remote, but the CP route had its share of remote, too. And I think it is telling that the Canadian is not funded as a remote service, unlike the Churchill train.


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Mar 9, 2016)

zephyr17 said:


> I have never heart the term Canadian Mountain Passes as a proper name reference to Kicking Horse and Rogers Passes. Yellowhead Pass is as Canadian as the other two. They are all Canadian mountain passes.
> 
> There are a lot of political reasons it was re-routed, and it all boiled down to savings, as the 1990 retrenchment was a major downsize. One of the main ones was CN was still a government corporation at that time, and I think there were some savings to be had and it was easier. I think there were some personnel issues, too. They were still running with railroad operating crews (including conductors at that time), and I dimly recall that having something to do with it. CP was always privately owned.
> 
> Arguably the CN route was more remote, but the CP route had its share of remote, too. And I think it is telling that the Canadian is not funded as a remote service, unlike the Churchill train.


I referred to them as Canadian Mountain Passes after one of the Train Simulator routes.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 9, 2016)

Well, most of us don't play the sim games enough to know that. Geographic terms would have been better.


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## zephyr17 (Mar 10, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > I have never heart the term Canadian Mountain Passes as a proper name reference to Kicking Horse and Rogers Passes. Yellowhead Pass is as Canadian as the other two. They are all Canadian mountain passes.
> ...


Well, nobody else does.


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## jis (Mar 10, 2016)

C'moc guys! Let's give him a break. He used a term that he is familiar with and some of us explained what the real railroad/geographical term is for the same thing. We don't have to bully him about that, do we?

If we expect to welcome the younger generation into our folds of rail enthusiasts we should be willing to understand where they are coming from and make at least minor accommodations.


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Mar 10, 2016)

jis said:


> C'moc guys! Let's give him a break. He used a term that he is familiar with and some of us explained what the real railroad/geographical term is for the same thing. We don't have to bully him about that, do we?
> 
> If we expect to welcome the younger generation into our folds of rail enthusiasts we should be willing to understand where they are coming from and make at least minor accommodations.


Tell me about it!


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## Palmetto (Mar 11, 2016)

+1.

By the way, using the Park car on the Canadian is going to be restricted to Prestige Class passengers during the peak season from May to October. Other sleeper class passengers will be limited to the Skyline Cars.


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## jebr (Mar 11, 2016)

Source? I don't recall hearing this elsewhere, and last year during peak season the park car was open to all.


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## Palmetto (Mar 11, 2016)

jebr said:


> Source? I don't recall hearing this elsewhere, and last year during peak season the park car was open to all.


Yes, I should have mentioned that! Reported on trainorders by a regular Canadian poster. It's also called the "Prestige Park Car" on the VIA website. To further clarify, there is SOME access to Sleeper Plus passengers, but the times are scheduled.


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 11, 2016)

jebr said:


> Source? I don't recall hearing this elsewhere, and last year during peak season the park car was open to all.


Now posted on VIAs web site;

http://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/rockies-and-pacific/toronto-vancouver-canadian/classes-and-trains-cars#plus

Click on 'Prestige Park car'

_*Important note:* during peak season (May to October) access to this car is limited to scheduled times for Sleeper Plus passengers. Starting May 1st 2016, the Prestige Park car may be accessed during the evenings from 19h00 until last call (22h30), with the exceptions of evenings upon departure from Toronto and Vancouver. *Scheduled access times are subject to change._

It'S only restricted during peak season....but regular (sleeper plus) passengers still get to use the Park between 7pm and 10:30pm except on the evening of departure from Toronto and Vancouver. Regular sleeper passengers also have a Skyline Dome.

....and it makes sense to me. If I was paying $7000 for Prestige Class (with no discounts offered) I would want exclusive use too!


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## zephyr17 (Mar 11, 2016)

Good to know. Another reason to take in the off season.


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## OBS (Mar 13, 2016)

I agree, off season it is!


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## Palmetto (Mar 13, 2016)

There's always the Ocean's Park Car......


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 13, 2016)

Palmetto said:


> There's always the Ocean's Park Car......


And here it is......







Just dropped off a co-worker's GF and their little fellow to take the Ocean to Campbellton this afternoon and talk about an excited kid!! But sadly, no Park Car ride for Austin.....Sleeper Plus passengers only!

.


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## Amfleeter (Mar 17, 2016)

Coast-to-Coast Amtrak is getting more appealing by the year in comparison to VIA, just with the constant price increases and service reductions from VIA.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 17, 2016)

Amfleeter said:


> Coast-to-Coast Amtrak is getting more appealing by the year in comparison to VIA, just with the constant price increases and service reductions from VIA.


Doesn't this apply to both Companies?
And the Canadian and the Ocean still have better equipment, excellent service and by far better food!

If you go in the Winter the Canadian is actually a great deal compared to Amtrak! And the new Liberal Government seems to be willing to better fund VIA than the Tories were, just the opposite of the situation with Amtrak! YMMV


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## Amfleeter (Mar 17, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Amfleeter said:
> 
> 
> > Coast-to-Coast Amtrak is getting more appealing by the year in comparison to VIA, just with the constant price increases and service reductions from VIA.
> ...


With the new prices, it's not as much of a great deal for people on a somewhat tighter budget like me, especially with no off-peak prices - a cabin for one is nearly 1.7k USD when discounted now. Don't know what sale prices are like - is there still half off sales?

Amtrak's actually seemingly lowered prices from what I've seen - lower buckets seem easier to catch now. I can do cross-country if I'm careful for 800-1000 USD, though Amtrak does no sleeper sales as far as I know.

That 700 dollars goes far - I like to do stopovers - and that could be my hotel in Jasper or Kalispell.


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## zephyr17 (Mar 17, 2016)

I am going across Canada starting tomorrow(Vancouver-Toronto, since this site seems so fond of station codes, that is VCVR-TRTO, not VAC-TWO) in a roomette for about $930 USD between a 50% off (peak fare, unfortunately) and the good exchange rate. I couldn't get 4 nights on Amtrak cross-country for that, even at low bucket as far as I know, but if I could, I would have to be really lucky to get it.

The mattress is better, the food is much better, and the lounge space is much, much better. Yes, the peak seaon "list" prices are high, but with off season and sales, the Canadian can be quite reasonable.

No, I have never seen Amtrak do sleeper sales. Best you can do is look for a low bucket there.


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 17, 2016)

Which sleeper are you in?


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## zephyr17 (Mar 17, 2016)

212. Should be the last before the Prestige Chateau car(s) according to the agent.


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 17, 2016)

I've put in a work application with them to work sleepers for the summer


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 17, 2016)

Which type of accommodation that's a good deal


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## railiner (Mar 18, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I've put in a work application with them to work sleepers for the summer


Interesting...sounds like a great summer job. VIA hires non-Canadians for such positions? Surprising....

Good luck! Let us know how you did.....


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 18, 2016)

railiner said:


> Seaboard92 said:
> 
> 
> > I've put in a work application with them to work sleepers for the summer
> ...


I highly doubt they do. But perhaps Seaboard is Canadian or dual citizenship?

I've often wanted to work a season on the Rocky Mountaineer, since I'm currently not able to pay those prices and riding that line would be something else! But I doubt they hire from the US except for the Seattle positions.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 18, 2016)

Without even searching for dates, Capitol Limited and Southwest Chief, both in sleepers is $808. Capitol and Zephyr $879.

I'm all for the Canadian, did it once for a winter sale for about $800 in a roomette. Would live to ride it again, and for sure want to ride the Ocean once in my life as well. I have to factor in the cost of getting to and from Canada too.... I can take Mega Bus straight to Chicago for $15 and start my train trip from there. Getting to Toronto, having a hotel room that night, then another hotel in Vancouver, and then getting BACK from there.... that adds up. Fast. Every time I think about riding the Canadian again, I add up the costs and think... for that money I could do an Alaska trip (high on my list....) or go to Europe, or go to Japan. Hmmm... So for me, the Canadian might have been a one time thing until I strike it big.


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## CSXfoamer1997 (Mar 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Without even searching for dates, Capitol Limited and Southwest Chief, both in sleepers is $808. Capitol and Zephyr $879.
> 
> I'm all for the Canadian, did it once for a winter sale for about $800 in a roomette. Would live to ride it again, and for sure want to ride the Ocean once in my life as well. I have to factor in the cost of getting to and from Canada too.... I can take Mega Bus straight to Chicago for $15 and start my train trip from there. Getting to Toronto, having a hotel room that night, then another hotel in Vancouver, and then getting BACK from there.... that adds up. Fast. Every time I think about riding the Canadian again, I add up the costs and think... for that money I could do an Alaska trip (high on my list....) or go to Europe, or go to Japan. Hmmm... So for me, the Canadian might have been a one time thing until I strike it big.


How much does a Canadian coach seat usually cost compared to the sleepers?


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## jebr (Mar 18, 2016)

CSXfoamer1997 said:


> crescent-zephyr said:
> 
> 
> > Without even searching for dates, Capitol Limited and Southwest Chief, both in sleepers is $808. Capitol and Zephyr $879.
> ...


I've seen coach seats for around $200. That being said, in my experience it's worth saving up for at least a berth. Last year I was able to get a sale on a berth and it was around $400 for Winnipeg - Vancouver. The experience is vastly different in coach from what I've heard. If you're flexible and watch the sales, a sleeper berth is really the best way to go, especially if traveling alone.


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## crescent-zephyr (Mar 18, 2016)

Yes! I did forget about the berths.... An upper berth on sale can be a great price. You still get all your meals in the dining car too.


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 18, 2016)

crescent-zephyr said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Seaboard92 said:
> ...


I have my work permit already but no citizenship. I'll let you guys know if I get a call. I'm hoping I will


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 18, 2016)

Seaboard 92: Congrats on getting Landed Status in the Great White North. Unions are very strong in Canada,( even Wal-Mart couldn't break the Union) are you a member of a Canadian Union also?


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 19, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Seaboard 92: Congrats on getting Landed Status in the Great White North. Unions are very strong in Canada,( even Wal-Mart couldn't break the Union) are you a member of a Canadian Union also?


Thank you. I haven't joined the union yet. But that would be a good idea. I'm slowly working my way into getting that job. Slowly but surely. I applied for Vancouver and Winnipeg for the Canadian pool. And Toronto and Montreal for the corridor pool. Toronto doesn't have a crew for the Canadian


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## OBS (Mar 21, 2016)

Do you speak French?

That may be the biggest prerequisite...


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## TylerP42 (Mar 22, 2016)

Amfleeter said:


> Bob Dylan said:
> 
> 
> > Amfleeter said:
> ...



Last I checked, the price for an upper berth one way was about $1,900 CAD, which is about $1,450 USD. Compare that to a route between, say Buffalo and Seattle (about the same distance) on Amtrak in a roomette... $800 USD. (Both trains phantom booked on February 7th, 2017, to show a booking if you were to book early, and get the low bucket fares)


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 22, 2016)

OBS said:


> Do you speak French?
> 
> That may be the biggest prerequisite...


I understand written French in afraid better then I speak it. But I am working really hard at the moment trying to learn the pronunciations with a friend of mine who was a French exchange student. I'm trying my best on learning it but that's the best I can do


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## willem (Mar 22, 2016)

TylerP42 said:


> Last I checked, the price for an upper berth one way was about $1,900 CAD, which is about $1,450 USD. Compare that to a route between, say Buffalo and Seattle (about the same distance) on Amtrak in a roomette... $800 USD. (Both trains phantom booked on February 7th, 2017, to show a booking if you were to book early, and get the low bucket fares)


Did you do any checking to verify that you were seeing low bucket fares? Often the Amtrak offerings are opened at mid bucket rather than low bucket, I believe. I have no idea what VIA does, but would be interested in hearing from those who know.


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## TylerP42 (Mar 22, 2016)

willem said:


> TylerP42 said:
> 
> 
> > Last I checked, the price for an upper berth one way was about $1,900 CAD, which is about $1,450 USD. Compare that to a route between, say Buffalo and Seattle (about the same distance) on Amtrak in a roomette... $800 USD. (Both trains phantom booked on February 7th, 2017, to show a booking if you were to book early, and get the low bucket fares)
> ...


I'll go and say it was mostly guesswork -I'll do some verifying when I am home. VIARail, I'm not sure. I'll look into that as well when I get home from hockey.


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## willem (Mar 22, 2016)

For April 15, Amtrak is offering Buffalo to Seattle in roomettes for an adult at $635.

Interestingly, amsnag results often show taking the Maple Leaf from Buffalo to Buffalo around noon and then waiting for the Lake Shore Limited at midnight. When I go to amtrak.com, I see no such itinerary. Since amsnag requires the station code (BUF), it shouldn't be any confusion about whether departure is from Exchange Street or Depew.


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## Amfleeter (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm not seeing sleepers in Discount Tuesday deals lately. Did something happen?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 29, 2016)

Amfleeter said:


> I'm not seeing sleepers in Discount Tuesday deals lately. Did something happen?


Could it have something to do with the approach of peak season?


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## Amfleeter (Mar 30, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Amfleeter said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not seeing sleepers in Discount Tuesday deals lately. Did something happen?
> ...


You're probably right. I'm trying to get a good look at prices, planning a booking for February. I'd like to book ASAP so I can plan around the firm date. Guess I can wait for the fall/winter half-off sale. Perhaps they'll bring back off-peak prices by then.


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 30, 2016)

Amfleeter said:


> I'm not seeing sleepers in Discount Tuesday deals lately. Did something happen?


There were a few available a week ago (Mar 22) including cabins for 2 between Toronto and Vancouver...also sections. Just keep looking every Tuesday.


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## Train2104 (Mar 30, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Amfleeter said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not seeing sleepers in Discount Tuesday deals lately. Did something happen?
> ...


If I remember, they continued to have sleepers during peak season on Discount Tuesdays last year, albeit the discount is off the peak rate and I don't believe cabins for 2 were available.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 30, 2016)

I've seen discount Sleeper Fares on the Canadian available up to May, mostly in Sections, which are the cheapest Sleepers, but a Lower Berth is an excellent way to ride this train.

It's very comfortable and includes all Regular Sleeper benefits. I paid around $600 CDN the last time I rode from Vancouver to Toronto on a Tuesday.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 30, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> I've seen discount Sleeper Fares on the Canadian available up to May, mostly in Sections, which are the cheapest Sleepers, but a Lower Berth is an excellent way to ride this train.
> 
> It's very comfortable and includes all Regular Sleeper benefits. I paid around $600 CDN the last time I rode from Vancouver to Toronto on a Tuesday.


Could that be to fill up a sleeper that has a tour group in it?


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## Palmetto (Mar 31, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> I've seen discount Sleeper Fares on the Canadian available up to May, mostly in Sections, which are the cheapest Sleepers, but a Lower Berth is an excellent way to ride this train.
> 
> It's very comfortable and includes all Regular Sleeper benefits. I paid around $600 CDN the last time I rode from Vancouver to Toronto on a Tuesday.


I'll second all that. But you have to be somewhat nimble to get out of bed and still keep yourself behind the curtain. At least, that was my experience.


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