# LSL boston sleepers?



## dedhd (Apr 9, 2015)

Are sleepers still offered on the LSL into south station Boston?


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## Acela150 (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 9, 2015)

I thought I had read about busitutions from Albany to Boston due to track work, but don't know if that's still the case.


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## AlanB (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes, there are some service interruptions coming. Here is the announcement:



> *Lake Shore Limited Trains 48/448 and 49/449: Track Work Affects Service*​
> 
> Effective April 12 through May 22, 2015
> 
> ...


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## Gemuser (Apr 9, 2015)

> Trains 448 and 449 will be replaced by connecting trains in both directions between Boston, Albany and intermediate stations on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays from April 16 - 25, 2015, and daily from April >30 through May 22, 2015, as described below:

Why a separate connecting train? What is gained for MOW work if the LSL section does not use the tracks, but a separate train does???


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## Acela150 (Apr 9, 2015)

The section of trackage between ALB and BOS is mostly single trackage. No place to run them when CSX will be working on the single trackage.


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## J-1 3235 (Apr 9, 2015)

It seems that the BOS and NYP sections will not be combined during this period, and the 20 car is running through to NYP. If the 20 car ran through to BOS it would end up being stranded in BOS, and, because the following day passengers will be bussed, it would be unavailable for travel from ALB to CHI.

Just a guess..........

Mike


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## Acela150 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mike that is a safe guess. It would also help rotating equipment.


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## Train2104 (Apr 10, 2015)

J-1 3235 said:


> It seems that the BOS and NYP sections will not be combined during this period, and the 20 car is running through to NYP. If the 20 car ran through to BOS it would end up being stranded in BOS, and, because the following day passengers will be bussed, it would be unavailable for travel from ALB to CHI.
> 
> Just a guess..........
> 
> Mike


But they're also doing it 7 days a week April 30-May 22.


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## Ryan (Apr 10, 2015)

The only thing that makes sense to me is work at the Albany station that would make the switching moves impossible? Anything like that planned?


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## J-1 3235 (Apr 10, 2015)

An Empire Service "Service Alert" states that the fourth Albany station track, and the second main to Schenectady, work has begun, and to expect delays through December.

I believe Ryan has nailed it.

Mike


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## AlanB (Apr 10, 2015)

J-1 3235 said:


> An Empire Service "Service Alert" states that the fourth Albany station track, and the second main to Schenectady, work has begun, and to expect delays through December.
> 
> I believe Ryan has nailed it.
> 
> Mike


Yes, the way that the Albany station is currently setup would require taking the track to/from Boston out of service for a bit to put in new switches that will allow the new 4th track to both access the Boston route, but also the mains to NYC.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2015)

as always great info here! Thanks! So wife and I are planning a trip back from LA, will be travelling on May 4 on EB LSL- should we expect a train or a bus??


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## niemi24s (Apr 10, 2015)

There is a short tunnel between Albany/Rensselaer NY and Pittsfield MA. Is this tunnel like those leading to NYP - unable to handle the taller Superliner cars or perhaps double stack intermodal freight cars?


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## MattW (Apr 11, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> There is a short tunnel between Albany/Rensselaer NY and Pittsfield MA. Is this tunnel like those leading to NYP - unable to handle the taller Superliner cars or perhaps double stack intermodal freight cars?


Even if it could, the LSL still couldn't use Superliners to Boston since Boston uses high-level platforms which are incompatible with Superliner equipment.


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## afigg (Apr 11, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> There is a short tunnel between Albany/Rensselaer NY and Pittsfield MA. Is this tunnel like those leading to NYP - unable to handle the taller Superliner cars or perhaps double stack intermodal freight cars?


The CSX line from Albany to Worcester MA is cleared for double stack container trains. Whether the Amtrak segment is, don't know. But Superliners are not going to run to Boston because of clearance and platform issues, nor east of Buffalo for that matter, because the stations on the Empire corridor will eventually be all high level platforms.


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## StriderGDM (Apr 11, 2015)

A Superliner has apparently fit under de-energized catenary in Boston, but as others have pointed out, from a practical POV, it won't happen. (They have apparently run to ALB a few times but terminated there.)


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## Ryan (Apr 11, 2015)

Why are we talking about Superliners, did I miss something?



Guest said:


> as always great info here! Thanks! So wife and I are planning a trip back from LA, will be travelling on May 4 on EB LSL- should we expect a train or a bus??


Train, but you'll have to move from one train to the other in Albany.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2015)

thanks ryan


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## niemi24s (Apr 11, 2015)

RyanS said:


> Why are we talking about Superliners, did I miss something?


Probably my question in Post #14 regarding equipment height restrictions because I've never been on a single level Amtrak train. But I let Google be my guide to finding this... http://www.greatamericanstations.com/downloads/station-planning-and-program-guidelines_secure ..which has a most informative description of both equipment and platform heights on pages 23 and 89.


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## Rail Freak (Apr 11, 2015)

Alan B, nice to hear your voice again!!!


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## J-1 3235 (Apr 17, 2015)

While passing through Boston South Station today (4/17), I saw one of the new VL baggage cars on449, the Lake Shore Limited. I also saw that a half cafe/half business car was in the consist. I asked about it, and was told that it was there for the displaced sleeper passengers.

I think that will help to make up for having to wait until Albany to have your room.

Definitely a good move by Amtrak.

Mike


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 17, 2015)

Excellent idea Mike! Perhaps Amtrak might consider keeping it this way and run the BOS Sleeper on the NYP Section

with the BOS Sleeper pax able to board their Sleeper in ALB!

Since a Lunch and a Dinner are served on #448/#449 to the Sleeping Car pax, this makes lots of sense, especially for Amtrak! LOL

Could you determine if it will run all the way to CHI or turn back to BOS on #448??


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## Ryan (Apr 17, 2015)

It can't run all the way to CHI, the tracks from BOS aren't connected (if I'm reading the service advisory correctly).


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## Palmetto (Apr 18, 2015)

Ryan,

What service advisory would you be referring to? I couldn't find one on the timetable. There IS work going on at Albany Station, but I don't believe that the work precludes the Boston section from its normal run-thru pattern.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 18, 2015)

Palmetto said:


> Ryan,
> 
> What service advisory would you be referring to? I couldn't find one on the timetable. There IS work going on at Albany Station, but I don't believe that the work precludes the Boston section from its normal run-thru pattern.


Read this thread from the beginning. I believe there are explanations in the beginning.


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## neroden (Apr 18, 2015)

I've looked at that layout at Albany. I've never managed to find a diagram of the planned new switch layout (sigh). I would presume that the plan is to build a crossover so that Boston trains can go into at least two platform tracks and New York trains can go into all four.

I'm not sure exactly what work is preventing the attachment of the Boston and New York sections, but it could be anything. The switches and track on the south end are being completely rearranged to accomodate the fourth platform track. The switches and track on the north end are *also* being rearranged -- to accomodate the fourth platform track, to accomodate the lengthening of the platforms to the north, *and* IIRC to make sure there are two signalled mainline tracks all the way up to the bridge. (The wye is being signalled, too.) Anyway, any one of these changes could have made it Just Too Difficult to do the switching.


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## AlanB (Apr 18, 2015)

neroden said:


> I've looked at that layout at Albany. I've never managed to find a diagram of the planned new switch layout (sigh). I would presume that the plan is to build a crossover so that Boston trains can go into at least two platform tracks and New York trains can go into all four.


To my knowledge that is exactly the plan; the two tracks closest to the station building will be able to access the line to Boston. All 4 tracks will be able to go south to NYP.



neroden said:


> I'm not sure exactly what work is preventing the attachment of the Boston and New York sections, but it could be anything.


AFAIK it is not a matter of the work interfering with the combining of the two sections, but rather the work cuts off access to the line to Boston and therefore the Boston section cannot get into the station at all and therefore cannot be combined with the NY section. As they install the various switches and re-align the spur line to Boston it has to be taken out of service for the work.

My understanding is that the current track to Boston needs to have either 2 switches or a diamond crossover installed so that the new 4th track can go south to NYP. And then both of the tracks closest to the station have to be tied together further up so that they combine via another switch into the single track to Boston.


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## niemi24s (Apr 18, 2015)

Here's a ton of words on the project - but no map or diagram: https://www.dot.ny.gov/recovery/repository/FRA_Agreement_FR-HSR-0086-11-01-00_Empire_Corridor_Capacity_Improvement.pdf Perhaps the details (in words) are in Attch 3, the Statement Of Work.


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## Palmetto (Apr 18, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan,
> ...


Merci beaucoup!


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## niemi24s (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's an improved version of the previous drawing:




I tried unsuccessfully to find a drawing showing what it would look like after all the work was done. Nor could I figure it out following the words in the Statement Of Work: https://www.dot.ny.gov/recovery/repository/FRA_Agreement_FR-HSR-0086-11-01-00_Empire_Corridor_Capacity_Improvement.pdf


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## AlanB (Apr 19, 2015)

I didn't pay that much attention to the north end work description as that was largely yards and nothing of great value.

But in your diagram for the south side and the platform, add a track on the other side of the A platform up against the station. The current track that you have on the other side of the A platform will get a slip switch. That switch will allow a train from the station side of A plat to either cross over the other existing A track or simply land on that track. The new A track would have a switch most likely close to the platform that allows trains to switch over to the existing A track.

Then a bit further down (south), there will be another switch that will join the two A tracks together so that trains can proceed from either track out on the Post Road Branch to Boston.


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## niemi24s (Apr 19, 2015)

The part that lost me was the crossovers connecting all four of the station tracks (that would require three of them) plus the double slip switch South of the platforms on the Post Road Branch as well as two double slip switches North of the platforms. Both platforms will also be extended to more than twice their present lengths. I'll be on the LSL toward the end of May so will give it a good look-see.


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## acelafan (Feb 6, 2016)

There is probably a better thread for this question but I can't find it...

NARP's news hotline 949-A this week says it's unclear when or if Amtrak will reinstate through-car sleeper service BOS-ALB. I did a test booking and April 1 shows sleeper availability that date. April Fool's? Has anyone heard if sleepers are in fact coming back to 448/449? Another "Silver Star" change in the works here?


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## MikefromCrete (Feb 6, 2016)

It's my understanding that through Boston-Chicago sleepers (and coaches) will not return until the completion of the station work at Albany. If the station work is done by April 1, then the sleeper will return. If not, then expect the continuation of a coach-only connecting train.


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## Thirdrail7 (Feb 6, 2016)

acelafan said:


> There is probably a better thread for this question but I can't find it...
> 
> NARP's news hotline 949-A this week says it's unclear when or if Amtrak will reinstate through-car sleeper service BOS-ALB. I did a test booking and April 1 shows sleeper availability that date. April Fool's? Has anyone heard if sleepers are in fact coming back to 448/449? Another "Silver Star" change in the works here?




The Lake Shore Limited Sleeper confusion thread has been the default thread that discusses the reinstatement of the through sleeper....which hasn't been reinstated.



MikefromCrete said:


> It's my understanding that through Boston-Chicago sleepers (and coaches) will not return until the completion of the station work at Albany. If the station work is done by April 1, then the sleeper will return. If not, then expect the continuation of a coach-only connecting train.


I agree with this statement. The date has come and gone a few times. I'm sure the construction is an issue but it is convenient to run the train through.

Too convenient if you ask me. I anticipate the date being pushed back again...kind of like the suspended Gulf Coast service.


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## daybeers (Feb 6, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> I agree with this statement. The date has come and gone a few times. I'm sure the construction is an issue but it is convenient to run the train through.
> 
> Too convenient if you ask me. I anticipate the date being pushed back again...kind of like the suspended Gulf Coast service.


I have a reservation booked on the LSL at the end of June from CHI to SPG in a Roomette. I'm hoping the construction will be finished before then.

What do you mean convenient to run the train through? Run the sleeper through from ALB?


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 6, 2016)

daybeers said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with this statement. The date has come and gone a few times. I'm sure the construction is an issue but it is convenient to run the train through.
> ...


Run the Boston sleeper & coach(es) through from NYP rather than have to connect them in ALB.


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## daybeers (Feb 6, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Run the Boston sleeper & coach(es) through from NYP rather than have to connect them in ALB.


Ah right, of course.


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## PVD (Feb 6, 2016)

Perhaps someone with some solid knowledge of the "750 mile rule" can shed some light. If the current system became permanent, and it became 2 separate trains, rather than the "temporary" situation it is considered now, would what is presently a piece of a LD train now become a train that legally requires state support?


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## neroden (Feb 6, 2016)

Yes, if anyone with standing (i.e. Congress or a state government) went after Amtrak, the Boston-Albany train would become a train which legally requires state support.

Amtrak, don't be stupid. Bring back the Boston sleeper. It's worthwhile to have three New York sleepers as well. New Viewliners are supposed to arrive soon, right?


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Feb 7, 2016)

PVD said:


> Perhaps someone with some solid knowledge of the "750 mile rule" can shed some light. If the current system became permanent, and it became 2 separate trains, rather than the "temporary" situation it is considered now, would what is presently a piece of a LD train now become a train that legally requires state support?


If they decide to make the Sunset Limited NOL-SAS only and require a transfer to the Texas Eagle at SAS, the SL is only 573 miles as well.


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## Acela150 (Feb 8, 2016)

niemi24s said:


> Here's an improved version of the previous drawing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To make it simple for everyone, the interlocking is an "Incomplete Interlocking", which in english means you can't go from say 4 to 1 and 1 to 4. You can only go say 4 to 1. If the interlocking was a "Complete Interlocking" you can access the Port Road from the far side.

Hope this makes sense.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 14, 2016)

acelafan said:


> There is probably a better thread for this question but I can't find it...
> 
> NARP's news hotline 949-A this week says it's unclear when or if Amtrak will reinstate through-car sleeper service BOS-ALB. I did a test booking and April 1 shows sleeper availability that date. April Fool's? Has anyone heard if sleepers are in fact coming back to 448/449? Another "Silver Star" change in the works here?


April's Fool indeed. The through sleeper date has been pushed back again.


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## neroden (Mar 14, 2016)

Well, the platform extensions aren't done yet. Putting the platform surfaces in place is going to require construction crews to occupy at least one adjacent track, no question -- possibly two tracks at a time. That would disrupt any switching plans. We'll see when they get those done.


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## PVD (Mar 14, 2016)

Permanently eliminating the Boston section and making it a permanent stub would likely trigger the "state funding" requirement which could be a disaster for that service.. I think the previous post above nails it.


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## JackieTakestheTrain (Apr 3, 2016)

I see that sleepers are back on the schedule from Boston to Chicago on May 19. Will the track work be finished by then?


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## daybeers (Apr 3, 2016)

JackieTakestheTrain said:


> I see that sleepers are back on the schedule from Boston to Chicago on May 19. Will the track work be finished by then?


It's possible: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/67324-included-meals-question/?p=652529


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## Thirdrail7 (Apr 3, 2016)

How many times have we seen this before? :huh:


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## erierail (Apr 3, 2016)

Will continue to wait iuntil the work is completed. Its apparent that you guys don't remember how long it took the cdta to finish the original station. Opening it with out all 4 platforms has resulted in operational disasters from day 1 of the station completion. With the platform completed, the station can meet its full potential and flow more freely.

Let's hope one of the remaining bottle neck in capital region is fixed when the double tracking between resenalesr and Schenectady is completed.


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## PVD (Apr 3, 2016)

Recent photos show the fourth track in place, and the concrete stancions in place for the extension of the high level platform as well as a bunch of rail on the leveled ROW waiting to be installed heading to Schenectady. A very mild winter helped quite a bit. Let us keep our fingers crossed, when all this is in service, as well as the work around Syracuse, West of Albany might be pretty decent.


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## erierail (Apr 3, 2016)

Pvd, you are so correct. Time keeping will also improve because of the reduction in freight traffic on CSX. During the peak freight periods, late Amtrak trains just got frustratingly later.


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## PVD (Apr 3, 2016)

A couple of times a year I would go to Syracuse for a hockey meeting, and since I was working on 35th street the train was a no brainer. To get through Albany, head West and get past Schenectady only to die near Syracuse used to kill me. On time, stalled freights blocked the track we needed to be on to switch to the station track at Syracuse. Finally after almost an hour they let us proceed past the station, and then did backup moves to platform us.


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## neroden (Apr 4, 2016)

The *April snow* which we just got will probably delay construction a bit. *SIGH*


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## KnightRail (Apr 23, 2016)

It should be of little surprise, the first day of 448 running through cars from Chicago (book able on the website) has been pushed back to now October 5th, 2016


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## erierail (Apr 23, 2016)

As soon as the station work is completed in alb/rens .


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## Thirdrail7 (Apr 23, 2016)

KnightRail said:


> It should be of little surprise, the first day of 448 running through cars from Chicago (book able on the website) has been pushed back to now October 5th, 2016


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## Railroad Bill (Apr 23, 2016)

I have ticket booked for June 7 from BOS to CLE. They have me in Roomette 8 in the 4920 from BOS. So will I be hearing from Amtrak soon? or has the Boston sleeper been reinstated for early June? Inquiring Minds Want To Know


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## neroden (Apr 23, 2016)

Bluntly, I think they don't really know when the ALB work will be finished, given the really random weather we've had. I figure they just pushed out the restoration date to October to avoid overpromising. Without inside information, I would assume that the through cars will return when they are really really totally done with the ALB construction work. No idea when that will be though.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 24, 2016)

Railroad Bill said:


> I have ticket booked for June 7 from BOS to CLE. They have me in Roomette 8 in the 4920 from BOS. So will I be hearing from Amtrak soon? or has the Boston sleeper been reinstated for early June? Inquiring Minds Want To Know


I wouldn't get my hopes up Bill! Odds are good you'll get a Voucher or refund for the BOS-ALB leg of the trip!


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## west point (Apr 24, 2016)

This may have already been answered. Is the BOS section Amfleet-1s so more -2s could go to other LD trains ?


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## jis (Apr 24, 2016)

Redacted


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## west point (Apr 24, 2016)

-2s typo


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## AG1 (Apr 24, 2016)

I did the transfer from CHI-ALB LSL 48 to LSL 448 ALB-BOS last week. LSL 48 entered the station southbound on the new track nearest the station. We did a cross platform transfer to LSL 448 which was facing southbound on the next track away( former closest track) from the station building. LSL 448 then crossed over the new track too reach the line(Post road) towards Boston. I was in one of two Amfleet 2 coaches to BOS.

Photos are of LSL 49 a week earlier headed to CHI. That was not a cross platform transfer.

edited for clarity


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## Palmetto (Apr 24, 2016)

Thanks for those pictures. Do I see an engine on a pocket track on the Post Road side?


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## AG1 (Apr 24, 2016)

Palmetto said:


> Thanks for those pictures. Do I see an engine on a pocket track on the Post Road side?


Thanks, you have good eyes.


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## erierail (Apr 24, 2016)

It amazing all this could have been avoided if the cdta would have done this from the begining


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 24, 2016)

You forget the all the issues CDTA had with this project. The fight to get Amtrak to move into the station was just the tip of the issue.

The old station had to be torn down to fit the new platform and tracks. Amtrak was still using the building, when the federal funds to add the fourth track became available.

You may want to read up on the drama with Miami Central Station. That story will give you a idea how hard it's to work with multiple agency.


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## Palmetto (Apr 25, 2016)

You mean Miami Airport Station, at least according to the public timetable. Miami Central is the new Brightline station going up near Government Center.

For a while, the facility at the airport was referred to as Miami Central, giving the city two locations with the same name. I haven't seen or heard the term in months now. Only in Florida would this situation obtain.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 25, 2016)

So confused...


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## jis (Apr 25, 2016)

The Airport Station is often referred to as MIC (for Miami Intermodal Center) at the Airport.


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## Palmetto (Apr 26, 2016)

jis said:


> The Airport Station is often referred to as MIC (for Miami Intermodal Center) at the Airport.


And that's what it should be cuz that's exactly what it is! :excl: I saw a Greyhound pulling out of there earlier this week.

The big drawback to this facility is getting there, especially from terminal J [international]. It involves moving sidewalks that take forever, and when you finish with that, you're looking at a ride on the MIA Mover over to the rental car facility and the MIC. Quite inconvenient. :huh:


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## ainamkartma (Apr 26, 2016)

Palmetto said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > The Airport Station is often referred to as MIC (for Miami Intermodal Center) at the Airport.
> ...


Out of all the commercial airports in the US, it is, what, perhaps in the top ten in terms of ease of access to both metro and regional rail systems? Perhaps in the top two of the hubs, along with O'Hare? So not perfect, for sure, but certainly a big step in the right direction for this country...

Ainam "Try getting to a train from LaGuardia and tell me how long _that_ takes you" Kartma


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## afigg (Apr 26, 2016)

Umm, what does the Miami Airport station, formerly the Miami Central Station, have to do with the LSL Boston segment. Getting a little bit off-topic here while there is a Miami airport station thread to discuss such things. Just saying.



RRRick said:


> Photos are of LSL 49 a week earlier headed to CHI. That was not a cross platform transfer.


Thanks for posting those photos. Helpful to see there has been real progress at the Albany station during the long construction period.


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## west point (Apr 26, 2016)

Off topic ATL airport has a walk of only 200 feet from closest domestic baggage claim to MARTA entrance.


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## Railroad Bill (May 1, 2016)

Just received word that my LSL 449 will not have sleepers on the BOS to ALB route on June 7. The agent agreed to send me down to NYP from PVD and board my sleeper on 49 even though the price had gone up considerably since my booking earlier this year. My other option was to run down the corridor to WAS and take the CL 29 back to CLE, but decided to take the train from New York rather than an early departure time from PVD.

Not sure if we will see a sleeper on the BOS-ALB route for a long time.....or ever again, according to one LSL dining car attendant I spoke with. :unsure:


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## AG1 (May 1, 2016)

Bill,

I don't understand why you would want to travel via NY instead of BOS. The NY route is more expensive, takes longer, and requires an earlier start than from Boston. Also, the Amfleet 2 cars used from BOS to Albany are more comfortable than the Amfleet 1s from PVD to NY unless you go Acela First class.


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## CCC1007 (May 1, 2016)

Rick, is it so far fetched that extra travel time is worth having the sleeper from origin to destination of that particular train?


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## daybeers (May 1, 2016)

Does anyone know what the value of the refund would be for getting put into BC in the cafe car on 448 after ALB? I've heard they are putting the sleeping car passengers there after ALB. I'm going from CHI to SPG on June 19th, but I may decide to leave CHI on the 20th. The price I paid for a roomette from CHI to SPG on the 19th is $316.40 with a AAA discount. I'm holding a reservation for CHI to ALB in a roomette, and then ALB to SPG in coach on the 20th for $293.40 with a AAA discount.

What would be the best option?


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## AG1 (May 1, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Rick, is it so far fetched that extra travel time is worth having the sleeper from origin to destination of that particular train?


Thanks for answering for Bill. I have traveled through NYP versus BOS and from my experience it isn't worth the extra expense and time to do so. Just one opinion.


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## AG1 (May 1, 2016)

daybeers said:


> Does anyone know what the value of the refund would be for getting put into BC in the cafe car on 448? I'm going from CHI to SPG on June 19th, but I may decide to leave CHI on the 20th. The price I paid for a roomette from CHI to SPG on the 19th is $316.40 with a AAA discount. I'm holding a reservation for CHI to ALB in a roomette, and then ALB to SPG in coach on the 20th for 293.40 with a AAA discount.
> 
> What would be the best option?


When I rode two weeks ago there wasn't any BC refund on 448. The Amfleet 2s on the 448 are as good as BC anyway.


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## daybeers (May 1, 2016)

RRRick said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know what the value of the refund would be for getting put into BC in the cafe car on 448? I'm going from CHI to SPG on June 19th, but I may decide to leave CHI on the 20th. The price I paid for a roomette from CHI to SPG on the 19th is $316.40 with a AAA discount. I'm holding a reservation for CHI to ALB in a roomette, and then ALB to SPG in coach on the 20th for 293.40 with a AAA discount.
> ...


I edited my post for more clarity. Do you mean they didn't put you into BC in the cafe car after ALB if you were a sleeping car passenger?


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## AG1 (May 1, 2016)

daybeers said:


> RRRick said:
> 
> 
> > daybeers said:
> ...


Correct, when I boarded at ALB the BC/Cafe had a bar across the vestibule and I was directed to the AF 2 coach. I mentioned I had been on the sleeper from CHI but was bluntly told by a conductor to sit in coach. I later went to the now open Cafe and saw two people sitting in BC. I was comfortable with two seats to myself in coach so I didn't push the situation with the conductor. Only one of the two coaches was occupied and everyone had a window seat.


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## Railroad Bill (May 1, 2016)

RRRick said:


> CCC1007 said:
> 
> 
> > Rick, is it so far fetched that extra travel time is worth having the sleeper from origin to destination of that particular train?
> ...


The times for leaving PVD were essentially the same both directions. There was no refund for getting a coach seat on 449 out of Boston to Albany and then having to switch cars in Albany and later getting supper. Since my original trip from PVD to Boston to Cleveland was on a $300 transportation voucher and the agent was willing to give me the PVD to NYP to Cleveland for the same price I had paid, it seemed like a good deal to go the corridor route to NYP, get into my sleeper for the entire trip to CLE. I also had not traveled the corridor from Boston to NYP before (I know its hard to believe, but we Midwesterners don't get over East much) so it was new territory to explore as well. So that is my story...and I am sticking with it.


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## AG1 (May 1, 2016)

Railroad Bill said:


> RRRick said:
> 
> 
> > CCC1007 said:
> ...


Great ! A happy customer. Thanks for filling in the unknowns.


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## PaulM (May 1, 2016)

daybeers said:


> ... saw two people sitting in BC. I was comfortable with two seats to myself in coach so I didn't push the situation with the conductor. Only one of the two coaches was occupied and everyone had a window seat.


Wow! The Illinois Zephyr and Carl Sandburg to Galesburg (pop. 30,000) and Quincy (pop. 40,000) do a lot better than that on a bad day


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## daybeers (May 2, 2016)

RRRick said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > RRRick said:
> ...


And you didn't try to get a refund from Amtrak Customer Relations?


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## AG1 (May 2, 2016)

daybeers said:


> RRRick said:
> 
> 
> > daybeers said:
> ...


Following up, Customer Relations was surprised that AGR did not issue a points refund when they issued the reservation change. Customer Relations contacted AGR and after much back and forth about old point program, new points, and cost versus mileage basis, etc; I was issued an E-voucher for future travel. It was less than the cost difference between sleeper and coach.


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## daybeers (May 2, 2016)

RRRick said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > RRRick said:
> ...


Interesting. Does anyone know who gets to sit in BC then? It looks like Amtrak is now only selling rooms from CHI to ALB, and then coach to BOS. What's weird is that the prices are much higher than they were when you could still book a through sleeper room.


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## Triley (May 2, 2016)

daybeers said:


> RRRick said:
> 
> 
> > daybeers said:
> ...


Again, it isn't business class, because it isn't marketed as such. (When I work a Cafe with 2x1 seating, it's open non-revenue seating like the rest of the Cafe.) On 449/448 the split cafe with 2x1 seating is there as a courtesy for sleeper passengers, but as far as I know, no one is entitled to a further voucher for not being allowed to sit in that seating. Though we all know what would happen with a call to Customer Relations.


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## AG1 (May 2, 2016)

Triley said:


> daybeers said:
> 
> 
> > RRRick said:
> ...


*Tril**ey,* the voucher I received was for the substitution of coach for the sleeper accommodation that* I had paid for in AGR points.* I was not seeking anything for not sitting in the half BC/Cafe car. AGR did not refund the AGR points I paid for the ALB-BOS and BOS-ALB segments. Therefore, I contacted Customer Relations who agreed I should have received a refund for the sleeper accommodation not received. I asked for a point return to my account but CR could only issue a cash voucher.


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## Triley (May 2, 2016)

RRRick said:


> *Tril**ey,* the voucher I received was for the substitution of coach for the sleeper accommodation that* I had paid for in AGR points.* I was not seeking anything for not sitting in the half BC/Cafe car. AGR did not refund the AGR points I paid for the ALB-BOS and BOS-ALB segments. Therefore, I contacted Customer Relations who agreed I should have received a refund for the sleeper accommodation not received. I asked for a point return to my account but CR could only issue a cash voucher.


I apologize, but my post was meant to be directed more to the continuing reference of Business Class in this thread, and I just wanted to everyone to remember that is not BC, just to avoid potential confusion.

So, I take it your AGR reservation was under the new redemption system?

Edit: Removed the never ending stream of quotes from my post.


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## daybeers (May 2, 2016)

Triley said:


> Again, it isn't business class, because it isn't marketed as such. (When I work a Cafe with 2x1 seating, it's open non-revenue seating like the rest of the Cafe.) On 449/448 the split cafe with 2x1 seating is there as a courtesy for sleeper passengers, but as far as I know, no one is entitled to a further voucher for not being allowed to sit in that seating. Though we all know what would happen with a call to Customer Relations.


Ah okay I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up!


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## greatcats (May 3, 2016)

My 2 cents- Other than the ride up the Hudson and being able to have dinner earlier, I would go for the ride across Massachusetts, which is quite beautiful. The travel hours are reasonable.


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## bigblue2007 (May 3, 2016)

I rode the LSL from BOS-ALB and ALB-CHI round trip last month. I enjoyed the trip. It was my first time using this particular route.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 20, 2016)

It appears the Lake Shore is still on course to return to normal operation soon. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 20, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> It appears the Lake Shore is still on course to return to normal operation soon. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.


Does this include getting the Diner back??


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## PVD (Oct 20, 2016)

Diners won't come back until the new ones are delivered and accepted. But the joined train can come back regardless.


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## sicariis (Oct 20, 2016)

Eastbound Boston sleeper slated to return on 10/24 and westbound sleeper starts on 10/26 according to ARROW. What's also interesting is starting on those dates there are Business class options now available. I'm guessing a Club Cafe on 448/449?


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## PVD (Oct 20, 2016)

Interesting, the Club Cafes used on Empire Service seem to sell pretty well NYP-Albany, but IIRC the cafe car has always pulled from BOS, with the diner coming from NYP. Guess we will know soon enough.


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## neroden (Oct 21, 2016)

The cafe car on the LSL typically had a lot of empty or underutilized tables overnight, and was super empty during the day through Indiana. They sold a lot of food but not a lot of people stuck around to eat it in the cafe. So it probably makes sense to use a half-and-half.


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## PVD (Oct 21, 2016)

I agree with you about that, but I wonder if they will start it NY to pick up the up the Hudson crowd instead of Boston. We shall soon see.


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## KnightRail (Oct 21, 2016)

PVD said:


> ... I wonder if they will start it NY to pick up the up the Hudson crowd instead of Boston. We shall soon see.


From the Passenger Service Notice:
"Business Class service will begin on eastbound Train 48/448 originating in Chicago on October 24, 2016. This service will start on westbound Train 49/449 originating at Boston and Albany-Rensselaer on October 26, 2016. *At this time, Business Class is not available between New York and Albany-Rensselaer.*"

Also the consist will be:

Locomotive(s) - (two during the winter season)

Baggage - Boston

Sleeper - Boston (4820/4920)

Cafe/Business class - Boston (Amfleet I Club-Dinette serving lounge menu)

Coach - Boston

Coach - Boston

Coach - New York

Coach - New York

Coach - New York

Food Car - New York (Amfleet II serving dining menu CHI-ALB, cafe items ALB-NYP)

Sleeper - New York (4811/4911)

Sleeper - New York (4812/4912)

Baggage - New York


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## PVD (Oct 21, 2016)

Thanks for the quick update. Down the road, I wonder if they may change one bag to a bag/dorm, and if cafe sales are good NYP-ALB thinking of how to provide that service when the car goes back to a real diner. I believe they have a platform length issue already in some places.


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## daybeers (Oct 21, 2016)

PVD said:


> Diners won't come back until the new ones are delivered and accepted. But the joined train can come back regardless.


How long has the LSL been running without a diner?


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## PVD (Oct 21, 2016)

guess it's been a couple of months now, bunch of diners taken out of service for safety precautions, LSL took the hit


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## daybeers (Oct 22, 2016)

PVD said:


> guess it's been a couple of months now, bunch of diners taken out of service for safety precautions, LSL took the hit


Wow, I didn't even hear about that. That's really too bad.


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## PVD (Oct 22, 2016)

It's sad, there never should have been a critical diner issue. But there is an endless VL delivery thread for that.


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## Train2104 (Oct 22, 2016)

KnightRail said:


> Locomotive(s) - (two during the winter season)


One engine for such a long train during the summer? I've heard the P32's are already struggling with the 11 car consist.


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## PVD (Oct 22, 2016)

Anecdotal, but the couple of times I've taken the LSL with the extra sleeper up from NYP, it seemed ok. Never liked the idea of one unit in remote areas where rescue would take forever. It is a relatively flat route, that helps.


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 23, 2016)

Train2104 said:


> KnightRail said:
> 
> 
> > Locomotive(s) - (two during the winter season)
> ...



The P42s have more horsepower than the P32s. The consist will actually be smaller for the P32s out of NYP.


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## Palmetto (Oct 26, 2016)

Today's 449 out of Boston has only 1 Bedroom available for $700 +. Business Class is selling for $125. I wonder why Business Class passengers can access the Met Lounge in Chicago, but not the lounge in South Station.


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## PVD (Oct 26, 2016)

Boston, NY and Washington could never handle the BC passenger load from the Acela service in their present sizes.


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## jis (Oct 26, 2016)

Palmetto said:


> Today's 449 out of Boston has only 1 Bedroom available for $700 +. Business Class is selling for $125. I wonder why Business Class passengers can access the Met Lounge in Chicago, but not the lounge in South Station.


Because you would require a large auditorium sized Club Acela if the entire Acela ridership + Regional BC ridership descended on those Clubs.


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## Palmetto (Oct 26, 2016)

jis said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > Today's 449 out of Boston has only 1 Bedroom available for $700 +. Business Class is selling for $125. I wonder why Business Class passengers can access the Met Lounge in Chicago, but not the lounge in South Station.
> ...


This is true but the Lake Shore Limited is not a regional. So, I'm wondering if this train's Business Class filled up at South Station, hypothetically, how many would that be? Assuming they were all to choose it. I've never been in Boston's Club Acela, but if it's as small as Penn's, then it's inadequate.


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## ScouseAndy (Oct 26, 2016)

jis said:


> Palmetto said:
> 
> 
> > Today's 449 out of Boston has only 1 Bedroom available for $700 +. Business Class is selling for $125. I wonder why Business Class passengers can access the Met Lounge in Chicago, but not the lounge in South Station.
> ...


Slightly off topic but if Amtrak renamed Acela Business Class to say "Acela Class" or something. Then LD business class passengers could use those lounges and see added value in upgrading to LD business class from coach class, the Acela standard class is still clearly different from Standard class on the regionals. Just saying


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## PVD (Oct 26, 2016)

From a business perspective, why spend money to re brand something that is successful to give a perk to a service that will likely succeed or fail without it. Empire Service B/C doesn't get lounge privilege out of NYP, they sell very well. Would I prefer to have use of the lounge when I go upstate, of course. But I pretty much accept why I don't get it.


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## jis (Oct 26, 2016)

Many Acela and Empire riders have access to Club Acela through Select+ status. It certainly makes a heck of a lot of business sense to not crowd up those clubs with an occasional BC rider so that people who are sending thousands of dollars on Amtrak can have a better experience. And OVD is exactly right, spending money to rebrand a successful service just to give access to a few who will probably contribute way less to the bottom line would just be insanity.

BTW, nothing prevents Amtrak from giving selective access to CA in BOS to LSL BC passengers like they do to the Crescent BC passengers in PHL.


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## AG1 (Oct 26, 2016)

Business Class passengers can pay $20 too use the Boston Club Acela.


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## Palmetto (Oct 27, 2016)

That's interesting. I didn't know that. I can't recall seeing it in the timetable, for example.


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## PVD (Oct 27, 2016)

A well kept "not so secret" it is clearly stated on the website, but not in a place people would go to without some curiosity. It is in the "lounges" section, reached by a link from "at the station". Something simple, like a note on the timetable, or even "gasp" a way to suggest/ purchase it at the same time as your ticket, sort of like a bike res, would be nice.


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## Palmetto (Oct 27, 2016)

Airlines do the "buy up" thing all the time. Amtrak misses that opportunity in royal fashion.


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## PVD (Oct 27, 2016)

You are almost immediately offered "pay in advance" bags at a discount, or their brand of "economy plus", on some airlines seat selection or early boarding, and many other add ons. I know Amtrak can do some add on selling, they offer travel insurance.


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## Seaboard92 (Oct 27, 2016)

I remember one time I used New York Penn's club Acela for train 89 in business class without a problem.


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## jis (Oct 27, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> I remember one time I used New York Penn's club Acela for train 89 in business class without a problem.


You just got lucky, or you happen to be Select+ or used a United Club membership, as I have done sometimes just for the heck of it. The rules clearly state that Club Acelas are not for BC passengers. except for a few clearly stated exceptions at specific Clubs.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Oct 27, 2016)

RRRick said:


> Business Class passengers can pay $20 too use the Boston Club Acela.


Note: These passes are not the same as the passes offered through AGR. I use the AGR passes all the time when travelling with my kids on the NEC. A single pass is good for me, and my kids, at both ends of the trip.

However, the "BC Pass" is strickly only good for each passenger, and only for the Boston Acela club. It is a terrible deal. I think they offer it because, unlike the other NEC Clubs, I rarely ever see anyone in the Boston club. Its funny too, because the workers there are pretty nasty to anyone who comes in trying to use the club without a pass, first class ticket or AGR +


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## Palmetto (Oct 28, 2016)

So much, then, for the Boston club being overcrowded. Nasty Amtrak personnel? Imagine....


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## MikefromCrete (Oct 28, 2016)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> RRRick said:
> 
> 
> > Business Class passengers can pay $20 too use the Boston Club Acela.
> ...


So the attendants are "nasty" to people trying to use the club who aren't eligible. What does that mean? Do they say, "Sorry, you can't use this facility" or did they say "Get the hell out of here, you scumbug?"


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## Metra Electric Rider (Oct 28, 2016)

MikefromCrete said:


> HP_Lovecraft said:
> 
> 
> > RRRick said:
> ...



It's Boston, so I can only imagine what they said! (ho boy, this seems to be Bash Boston week - I've always had a very nice time in your lovely city and enjoy your television productions, taffy and academic achievements)


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## gatelouse (Oct 30, 2016)

PVD said:


> I believe they have a platform length issue already in some places.


Speaking of platform length, the shuffle at ALB appears to require a few extra steps until the lengthened platforms are complete. Today, the island platform for tracks 1 & 3 (closest to station) are just long enough for the NYP section. 
An arrival from the west went something like this:

1. Pull into station with BOS through cars beyond front of platform

2. Separate the train, pull BOS section forward and out of the station

3. Back a waiting NYP-bound engine into the NYP section

4. Now that the NYP section has hotel power, back the BOS section onto the adjacent track. Both sections are now on opposite sides of the same island platform.

5. BOS section departs late due to all this switching

6. NYP section departs late because, well, it's the LSL

Once the longer platforms are in service, the entire train will fit and the BOS section should simply pull away and depart, just as the schedule (and 15 minute dwell time) intended.


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## chakk (Oct 30, 2016)

PVD said:


> Anecdotal, but the couple of times I've taken the LSL with the extra sleeper up from NYP, it seemed ok. Never liked the idea of one unit in remote areas where rescue would take forever. It is a relatively flat route, that helps.


As the NY Central tagline read in the 1940's: "the Water Level Route: you can sleep!"


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## Thirdrail7 (Oct 31, 2016)

gatelouse said:


> Speaking of platform length, the shuffle at ALB appears to require a few extra steps until the lengthened platforms are complete. Today, the island platform for tracks 1 & 3 (closest to station) are just long enough for the NYP section.
> An arrival from the west went something like this:
> 
> 1. Pull into station with BOS through cars beyond front of platform
> ...


I'm surprised they aren't working up both sections simultaneously. I suppose it may not be worth the extra crew.


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## neroden (Oct 31, 2016)

I've been scratching my head about the eastbound procedure.


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## PVD (Oct 31, 2016)

They have to platform the BOS section because it takes on baggage and passengers at Albany. When the longer platform is done, it can do the station work, leave, and the NYP engine can just back in.


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## jis (Nov 1, 2016)

PVD said:


> They have to platform the BOS section because it takes on baggage and passengers at Albany. When the longer platform is done, it can do the station work, leave, and the NYP engine can just back in.


Hopefully they won't disconnect HEP to the NY section as soon as the train platforms and leave them in darkness (and cold in the winter) until the Boston section leaves and the New York ACDM hooks up.


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## PVD (Nov 1, 2016)

Actually, that is what they seem to do. The P42/40 diesels pull forward with the Boston section, the NYP section is dark until HEP is restored from the DM. When the cross platform stub was running, you were still dark while the switch is taking place.


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## Palmetto (Nov 1, 2016)

PVD said:


> Actually, that is what they seem to do. The P42/40 diesels pull forward with the Boston section, the NYP section is dark until HEP is restored from the DM. When the cross platform stub was running, you were still dark while the switch is taking place.


There really isn't any other option is there? After all, the Boston section has to get out of the way of the New York section, pure and simple. That will cause the power to go off for a few minutes. It's not the end of the world. This will probably happen even when the platform can hold both sections simultaneously.


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## PVD (Nov 1, 2016)

Absolutely.


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## neroden (Nov 2, 2016)

I've been scratching my head about the *westbound* procedure, too.


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## jis (Nov 2, 2016)

Well, even when there was no Boston section to add on, we arrived into Albany ahead of schedule from New York. The DM was uncoupled and went off. Then we sat there until about a few minutes after the scheduled departure time with no power. Then a few car knocker folks ambled up and someone walked down from the platform all the way to the yard and finally fetched the P42 and hooked it on. by this time we were 15 - 20 minutes beyond our departure time. Meanwhile a late running something or the other headed eastbound occupied the track between SDY and Albany, so to record that we departed Albany the train moved forward 25 feet and then sat there, until the other train arrived. And then we left finally getting handed over to CSX 40+ minutes late at Hoffmans. I think sometimes things happen like they do simply because it is Albany.  Of course CSX took care to ensure that we did not reecover a single minute, and actually lost another 30 on CSX. But that is another story.


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## PVD (Nov 2, 2016)

Well at least the single track to SDY will be gone soon.


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## Palmetto (Nov 3, 2016)

Not soon enough.


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## sicariis (Nov 3, 2016)

Happy to have a thru roomette for our Boston-Chicago trip at the end of December. Now if only we could get the Portland-style catered box lunches like they have on the Empire Builder. Though I suppose with the departure time if we're not happy with the minimal menu (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/531/211/Lake-Shore-Limited-449-Dining-Car-Menu-0515.pdf) we should just bring our own lunch.


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## Triley (Nov 3, 2016)

sicariis said:


> Happy to have a thru roomette for our Boston-Chicago trip at the end of December. Now if only we could get the Portland-style catered box lunches like they have on the Empire Builder. Though I suppose with the departure time if we're not happy with the minimal menu (https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/531/211/Lake-Shore-Limited-449-Dining-Car-Menu-0515.pdf) we should just bring our own lunch.


I'm sure it's the way it is because it would be a waste of money to cater special meals just for a select few people in Boston, since those meals would only be used on 449. 448 gets a better "selection" since it can get meals out of Chicago that are used on multiple trains. Maybe when/if 67/66 gets sleepers back, they will stock meals for them, and put them on 449 as well.


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## jis (Nov 3, 2016)

Did 66/67 ever have meals included Sleeper service?


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## neroden (Nov 3, 2016)

The Portland-style boxed lunches are a good idea. And seriously, they can find a place in Boston to produce them, and they can load the correct number based on the number of reservations the previous night. Just takes a manager willing to bother.


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## gatelouse (Nov 3, 2016)

jis said:


> Did 66/67 ever have meals included Sleeper service?


They did! For sleeper pax, a microwave or convection heated tray meal was available. I dined at 10pm out of Boston in the "Twilight Lounge," a uniquely configured Amfleet-I dinette. Beer, wine, and spirits were included. Good times...


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## Triley (Nov 3, 2016)

gatelouse said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Did 66/67 ever have meals included Sleeper service?
> ...


If I'm not mistaken the lounge car that handled sleeper passengers also took care of the business class passengers. No idea if it was just for cafe service, or if they were served meals as well?


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## AG1 (Nov 3, 2016)

We are off topic, Jis, but my first sleeper ride was announced as the last 67 sleeper from BOS to NPN. I reserved the last roomette on a full sleeper. A cold snack pack was delivered by the SCA to the roomette for breakfast departing WAS. There was no meal served in the cafe car. I have a newspaper clipping about the end of sleeper service on 66/67.


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## Triley (Nov 3, 2016)

RRRick said:


> We are off topic, Jis, but my first sleeper ride was announced as the last 67 sleeper from BOS to NPN. I reserved the last roomette on a full sleeper. A cold snack pack was delivered by the SCA to the roomette for breakfast departing WAS. There was no meal served in the cafe car. I have a newspaper clipping about the end of sleeper service on 66/67.


Maybe they let standards slip or they ran out of meals for the trip, but there certainly was meal service at one point. The train use to carry two lounge cars. I work the train quite often and hear stories about how much better the train use to be.


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## Palmetto (Nov 4, 2016)

gatelouse said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Did 66/67 ever have meals included Sleeper service?
> ...


+1. I did a business trip RTE 128 to D.C. that way. As soon as we got to our rooms, we were invited to the next car for dinner.


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 4, 2016)

The consist had the coaches on the head end, a split café ,full custom(business) class, the aforementioned sleeper lounge and the sleeper. Meals for the sleeping cars were served in the lounge. Custom class received their drinks from the split café. The club section was designated as custom class overflow.


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