# Today's Corridors in 1952 and Yesterday's Corridors that disappeared



## Seaboard92 (Jan 6, 2021)

Basing this on my official Guide of Railways for 1952 lets look at some of the former and current corridors. 

Chicago-Detroit
One Operator the New York Central (Michigan Central) provides all the service, most trains continue past Detroit to other points. All Trains operate to Central Station in Chicago except for the Wolverine which uses La Salle St. Thru Cars to and from Toronto are carried on CP. 

Departures
-North Shore Limited DP 3:15 AM----AR CCT 8:15 AM Train originates in New York Grand Central, NY, Carries Thru Cars from Toronto, ON (Canadian)
-Wolverine DP 7:13 AM------------AR LST 11:30 AM Train originates in New York Grand Central, NY
-Chicago Mercury DP 8:30 AM----AR CCT 12:55 PM Carries Thru Cars from Toronto, ON (Michigan)
-Michigan DP 12:15 PM------------AR CCT 4:40 PM
-Western Express DP 1:35 PM-----AR CCT 8:30 PM
-Twilight Limited DP 4:45 PM------AR CCT 8:50 PM Carries Thru Cars from Toronto (Chicago Express)
-Motor City Special DP 11:30 PM---AR CCT 6:55 AM Carries Thru Cars from Toronto, ON (Royal York)


Arrivals
-Niagara/Canadian AR 2:50 AM---------DP CCT 7:35 PM Train continues to Toronto, ON and Buffalo, NY
-Motor City Special AR 7:35 AM---------DP CCT 11:59 PM Carries Thru Cars to Toronto, ON (Royal York)
-Chicago-Detroit Mail AR 10:45 AM-----DP CCT 2:00 AM
-Chicago Mercury AR 2:55 PM----------DP CCT 8:30 AM Train Carries Thru Cars to Toronto, ON (Overseas)
-New York Special AR 4:45 PM---------DP CCT 9:35 AM Train continues to New York Grand Central, NY
-Wolverine AR 8:25 PM--------------DP LST 2:10 PM Train continues to New York Grand Central, NY
-Twilight Limited AR 10:15 PM---------DP CCT 4:15 PM


Chicago-Minneapolis/St. Paul
There were four routes on this route which was also home to the Speed Wars where three of the four operators did everything they could to have a slightly faster run time in their competition with each other. The Milwaukee Road (Current Empire Builder Route), Burlington Route (via Aurora, IL), Chicago & Northwestern, and Soo Line (via Stevens Point, WI)

Burlington Route
Trains Operate to Chicago Union Station, IL 
Departures
-Empire Builder DP 7:15 AM---------------------AR CUS 2:00 PM Originates in Portland, OR and Seattle, WA
-Morning Zephyr DP 8:25 AM--------------------AR CUS 2:40 PM
-Afternoon Zephyr DP 4:00 PM------------------AR CUS 10:15 PM
-Local DP 7:15 PM-------------------------------AR CUS 9:30 AM
-North Coast Limited DP 10:45 PM-------------AR CUS 7:45 AM Originates in Portland, OR and Seattle, WA
-Black Hawk/Western Star DP 11:15 PM-------AR CUS 7:55 AM Western Star originates in Portland, OR and Seattle, WA

Arrivals
-North Coast Limited AR 8:00 AM--------------DP CUS 11:00 PM Continues to Portland, OR and Seattle, WA
-Black Hawk/Western Star AR 8:15 AM-------DP CUS 11:15 PM Western Star continues to Portland, OR and Seattle, WA
-Local AR 9:45 AM------------------------------DP CUS 9:00 PM
-Morning Zephyr AR 2:15 PM------------------DP CUS 8:15 AM
-Empire Builder AR 7:45 PM-------------------DP CUS 1:00 PM Continues to Portland, OR and Seattle, WA
-Afternoon Zephyr AR 10:15 PM---------------DP CUS 4:00 PM

Chicago & Northwestern
Trains operate to Northwestern Terminal in Chicago, IL 
Departures
-Viking DP 8:15 AM-----------------------AR CNW 9:50 PM Runs Via Madison
-Twin Cities 400 DP 12:30 PM-----------AR CNW 6:45 PM Runs via Milwaukee 
-Victory DP 7:00 PM----------------------AR CNW 7:05 AM Runs via Madison
-Northwestern Limited DP 11:40 PM----AR CNW 8:05 AM Runs via Milwaukee

Arrivals 
-Victory AR 7:35 AM---------------------DP CNW 9:00 PM Runs via Madison 
-Northwestern Limited AR 7:40 AM----DP CNW 11:00 PM Runs via Milwaukee
-Twin Cities 400 AR 9:15 PM-----------DP CNW 3:00 PM Runs via Milwaukee
-Viking AR 9:25 PM----------------------DP CNW 9:50 AM Runs Via Madison

Milwaukee Road
Operates to Chicago Union Station, IL 
Departures
-Olympian Hiawatha DP 7:10 AM-----AR CUS 1:45 PM From Tacoma, WA
-Morning Hiawatha DP 8:25 AM-------AR CUS 2:40 PM
-Local DP 10:25 AM--------------------AR CUS 9:40 PM
-Afternoon Hiawatha DP 1:00 PM-----AR CUS 7:15 PM
-Fast Mail DP 9:00 PM-----------------AR CUS 6:20 AM
-Pioneer Limited DP 11:59 PM--------AR CUS 8:00 AM
-Columbian DP 12:01 AM-------------AR CUS 8:45 AM From Tacoma, WA 

Arrivals
-Columbian AR 6:55 AM---------------DP CUS 10:00 PM Continues to Tacoma, WA
-Pioneer Limited AR 8:00 AM---------DP CUS 11:15 PM
-Local AR 1:55 PM---------------------DP CUS 1:30 AM
-Morning Hiawatha AR 6:05 PM------DP CUS 10:30 AM
-Afternoon Hiawatha AR 7:15 PM----DP CUS 1:00 PM
-Olympian Hiawatha AR 9:45 PM----DP CUS 3:30 PM Continues to Tacoma, WA

Soo Line
Operates to Chicago Grand Central Station
Departures
-Local DP 8:15 AM--------AR CGC 9:50 PM
-Laker DP 7:15 PM--------AR CGC 8:15 AM

Arrivals 
-Laker AR 8:20 AM-------DP CGC 6:30 PM
-Local AR 4:00 PM-------DP CGC 1:15 AM

What other corridors would you like me to look at the midwest has plenty of small corridors.


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## railiner (Jan 6, 2021)

What about the other routes between Chicago and Detroit?
Besides the MC, I believe you could take the Grand Trunk Western, the Pere Marquette, and the PRR/Wabash...

And between Chicago and St. Paul, I believe you could also take the Chicago Great Western, and the Rock Island...

Chicago/Indianapolis, and Chicago/Kansas City also offered at least three different routes, IIRC...


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## Dakota 400 (Jan 7, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> -Viking DP



I traveled on C&NW in 1952, but don't recall a train named "Viking".


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 7, 2021)

railiner said:


> What about the other routes between Chicago and Detroit?
> Besides the MC, I believe you could take the Grand Trunk Western, the Pere Marquette, and the PRR/Wabash...
> 
> And between Chicago and St. Paul, I believe you could also take the Chicago Great Western, and the Rock Island...
> ...



I don't think the others had thru cars. Now if you were a serious milage buff I could think of several ways you could go between both points on multiple roads.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 7, 2021)

Chicago-Cincinnati 
Two railroads served this market the New York Central's Great Steel Fleet, and the Pennsylvania Railroad the Standard Railroad of the World. 

New York Central (via Indianapolis, IN) 
Trains to Chicago Central Station 
Departures
-James Whitcomb Reilly DP 8:30 AM---------- AR CCT 1:00 PM
-Chicago Special DP 9:10 AM------------------AR CCT 3:00 PM Carries Thru cars from the south and east 
-Sycamore DP 3:20 PM-------------------------AR CCT 8:35 PM
-Chicago Night Express DP 10:10 PM--------AR CCT 5:00 AM 
-Royal Palm DP 11:55 PM---------------------AR CCT 6:50 AM Carries Thru Cars from Southern's Royal Palm from Florida 

Arrivals
-Cincinnati Night Express AR 6:00 AM----------DP CCT 9:20 PM
-Royal Palm AR 8:00 AM-------------------------DP CCT 11:30 PM Carries Thru cars to Southern's Royal Palm to Florida 
-Chicago Special AR 5:40 PM-------------------DP CCT 9:45 AM Carries Thru cars to points south and east 
-Carolina Special AR 9:05 PM-------------------DP CCT 1:00 PM Carries Thru cars for Southern's Carolina Special to Raleigh,NC and Charleston, SC
-James Whitcomb Reilly AR 11:00 PM--------- DP CCT 4:30 PM

Pennsylvania Railroad (Via Logansport)
Trains to Chicago Union Station
Departures
-Local DP 8:30 AM-----------AR CUS 1:45 PM
-Union DP 3:15 PM-----------AR CUS 8:30 PM
-Southland DP 11:35 PM----AR CUS 6:30 AM Carries cars from Points South

Arrivals
-Southland AR 7:20 AM------DP CUS 11:30 PM Carries cars for Points South 
-Local AR 5:00 PM-----------DP CUS 9:15 AM
-Union AR 9:30 PM------------DP CUS 2:15 PM


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 7, 2021)

Here is another one that was requested somewhat similar to the Cincinnati one. Indianapolis. None of the former routes resemble the Cardinal in any way shape or form. 

There were three routes between the two cities on the New York Central System, Pennsylvania Railroad, and the Monon. 

New York Central System via Lafayette,IN and Kankakee, IL. All Trains originate in Cincinnati except the Local and the Indianapolis Mail
To Central Station Chicago 
Departures
-Chicago Night Express DP 12:05 AM------AR CCT 5:00 AM
-Royal Palm DP 1:50 AM---------------------AR CCT 6:50 AM Carries Thru Cars off Southern's Royal Palm from Florida 
-James Whitcomb Riley DP 9:30 AM-------AR CCT 1:00 PM 
-Chicago Special DP 10:52 AM-------------AR CCT 3:00 PM Carries Thru Cars from points south and east
-Local DP 12:30 PM-------------------------AR CCT 4:55 PM
-Sycamore DP 4:40 PM----------------------AR CCT 8:35 PM

Arrivals
-Cincinnati Night Express AR 2:05 AM----DP CCT 9:20 PM
-Royal Palm AR 4:15 AM-------------------DP CCT 11:30 PM Carries Thru Cars for Southern's Royal Palm for Florida 
-Indianapolis Mail AR 12:40 PM------------DP CCT 7:15 AM
-Chicago Special AR 2:02 PM--------------DP CCT 9:45 AM Carries Thru Cars for points south and east 
-Carolina Special AR 5:20 PM--------------DP CCT 1:00 PM Carries Thru Cars for Southern's Carolina Special to Raleigh, NC and Charleston, SC
-James Whitcomb Riley AR 8:10 PM-------DP CCT 4:30 PM


Monon via Frankfort, IN and Dyer, IN 
To Dearborn Terminal Chicago 
Departures
-Tippecanoe DP 6:30 AM--------AR CDB 10:35 AM
-Hoosier DP 4:15 PM------------AR CDB 8:10 PM

Arrivals
-Tippecanoe AR 12:05 PM----DP CDB 8:00 AM
-Hoosier AR 9:05 PM----------DP CDB 5:15 PM

Pennsylvania Railroad via Logansport, IN 
There is an additional unlisted train that has a twenty minute cross platform connection at Logansport, IN
To Chicago Union Station 
Departures
-Kentuckian DP 2:10 AM---------AR CUS 7:00 AMOriginates in Louisville, KY
-Local DP 10:15 AM--------------AR CUS 8:20 PM Originates in Louisville, KY
-Southwind DP 1:55 PM----------AR CUS 5:45 PM Originates in Miami, FL runs every other day

Arrivals
-Kentuckian AR 3:40 AM---------DP CUS 11:00 PM Terminates in Louisville, KY
-Southwind AR 12:40 PM--------DP CUS 9:00 AM Terminates in Miami, FL runs every other day 
-Local AR 7:15 PM---------------DP CUS 3:15 PM Terminates in Louisville, KY


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 8, 2021)

Chicago-Omaha
Now this is a very dense corridor but mostly with long distance trains that go elsewhere. Only 10 of the 39 Trains run thru to points west. 

Four operators were plying for passengers on this route the Burlington Route (Current Amtrak Route), Chicago & Northwestern (UP Mainline Still), Rock Island (Iowa Interstate), and the Milwaukee Road. 

Burlington Route
Trains to Chicago Union Station via Ottumwa, IA
Departures
-Denver Zephyr DP 1:15 AM--------AR CUS 9:05 AM Originates in Denver, CO 
-California Zephyr DP 5:00 AM-----AR CUS 1:30 PM Originates in Oakland, CA
-Coloradan DP 9:25 AM-------------AR CUS 9:30 PM Originates in Denver, CO 
-Nebraska Zephyr DP 12:15 PM----AR CUS 8:45 PM Originates in Lincoln, NE 
-Local DP 6:30 PM-------------------AR CUS 7:00 AM Originates in Denver, CO
-Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr DP 10:30 PM-AR CUS 8:00 AM Originates in Lincoln, NE 

Arrivals 
-Denver Zephyr AR 12:30 AM------DP CUS 5:00 PM Terminates in Denver, CO 
-Fast Mail AR 7:45 AM--------------DP CUS 7:50 PM Terminates in Lincoln, NE 
-Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr AR 8:00 AM--DP CUS 10:00 PM Terminates in Lincoln, NE 
-Local AR 3:40 PM------------------DP CUS 12:15 AM Terminates in Denver, CO
-Coloradan AR 8:35 PM----------DP CUS 11:00 AM Terminates in Denver, CO 
-Nebraska Zephyr AR 9:00 PM----DP CUS 12:30 PM Terminates in Lincoln, NE 
-California Zephyr AR 11:45 PM---DP CUS 3:30 PM Terminates in Oakland, CA

Milwaukee Road
Trains to Chicago Union Station via Perry, IA 
Departures
-Midwest Hiawatha DP 11:55 AM-----AR CUS 8:25 PM 
-Arrow DP 7:40 PM---------------------AR CUS 8:50 AM

Arrivals
-Arrow AR 7:30 AM--------------------DP CUS 6:10 PM
-Midwest Hiawatha AR 8:20 PM------DP 11:50 AM CUS

Chicago & Northwestern
Trains to Northwestern Terminal via Clinton, IA 
Departures
-City of Denver DP 12:45 AM---------------AR CNW 8:35 AM Originates Denver, CO 
-City of Los Angeles DP 1:50 AM----------AR CNW 9:45 AMOriginates Los Angeles, CA
-City of San Fransisco DP 2:00 AM--------AR CNW 9:45 AM Originates Oakland, CA
-City of Portland DP 3:10 AM---------------AR CNW 11:20 AM Originates Portland, OR 
-San Fransisco Overland DP 3:45 AM-----AR CNW 1:00 PM Originates Oakland, CA
-Los Angeles Limited DP 4:30 AM---------AR CNW 2:00 PM Originates Los Angeles, CA
-Chicago Express DP 8:00 AM-------------AR CNW 8:15 PM
-Gold Coast DP 8:30 PM-------------------AR CNW 7:30 AM Originates Oakland, CA

Arrivals 
-San Fransisco Overland AR 12:30 AM----DP CNW 3:30 PM Terminates Oakland, CA
-City of Portland AR 1:30 AM---------------DP CNW 5:30 PM Terminates Portland, OR
-City of San Fransisco AR 1:45 AM--------DP CNW 6:00 PM Terminates Oakland, CA
-City of Los Angeles AR 2:00 AM----------DP CNW 6:15 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA
-Gold Coast AR 7:30 AM-------------------DP CNW 8:00 PM Terminates Oakland, CA
-Los Angeles Limited AR 9:00 PM---------DP CNW 12:01 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA
-Local AR 9:30 PM--------------------------DP CNW 9:15 AM
-City of Denver AR 11:40 PM--------------DP CNW 4:00 PM Terminates Denver, CO 

Rock Island
Trains to La Salle St Chicago via Des Moines, IA 
Departures
-Corn Belt Rocket DP 11:30 AM----------------AR LST 8:30 PM
-La Salle St Limited DP 6:45 PM----------------AR LST 7:50 AM
-Rocky Mountain Rocket DP 11:59 PM--------AR LST 8:50 AM Originates Denver, CO/Colorado Springs, CO 

Arrivals
-Corn Belt Rocket AR 7:25 AM----------------DP LST 8:05 PM
-Des Moines-Omaha Limited AR 1:30 PM----DP LST 10:45 PM
-Rocky Mountain Rocket AR 10:51 PM-------DP LST 1:55 PM Terminates Denver, CO/Colorado Springs, CO


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 8, 2021)

Chicago-Kansas City
Another route with a good variety of routes and equipment. The major player being the Santa Fe, but there were also the Burlington Route, Milwaukee Road, and Rock Island. The Gulf Mobile & Ohio had a cross platform connection in Bloomington, IL that I did not include. Another market that has more trains running thru than terminating. 8 Trains Terminate of the 22 that run in this corridor. 

Santa Fe via Ft. Madison, IA and Joliet, IL
Trains to Chicago Dearborn Station 
Departures
-Texas Chief DP 1:10 AM------------AR CDB 9:00 AM Originates Galveston, TX 
-The Chief DP 2:05 AM--------------AR CDB 10:30 AM Originates Los Angeles, CA
-Super Chief DP 5:50 AM-----------AR CDB 1:45 PM Originates Los Angeles, CA All-Pullman
-Grand Canyon DP 7:00 AM--------AR CDB 3:45 PM Originates Los Angeles, CA
-Chicagoan DP 12:30 PM-----------AR CDB 8:00 PM
-Kansas City Chief DP 10:00 PM---AR CDB 7:30 AM
-California Limited DP 11:00 PM---AR CDB 8:30 AM Originates Los Angeles, CA
-El Capitan DP 11:20 PM-----------AR CDB 7:15 AM Originates Los Angeles, CA Coach Only

Arrivals
-El Capitan AR 1:05 AM------------DP CDB 5:45 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA Coach Only
-Texas Chief AR 1:15 AM----------DP CDB 6:00 PM Terminates Galveston, TX 
-Super Chief AR 2:35 AM----------DP CDB 7:00 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA All-Pullman
-California Limited AR 7:15 AM---DP CDB 8:45 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA 
-Kansas City Chief AR 7:45 AM---DP CDB 10:00 PM
-Kansas Cityan AR 4:55 PM-------DP CDB 9:30 AM
-Grand Canyon AR 9:00 PM-------DP CDB 12:01 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA
-The Chief AR 9:50 PM-------------DP CDB 1:30 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA 

Burlington Route via Quincy, IL
To Chicago Union Station
Departures
-American Royal DP 8:00 PM------AR CUS 8:25 AM

Arrivals
-American Royal AR 7:30 AM-------DP CUS 6:30 PM

Milwaukee Road via Elgin, IL
To Chicago Union Station
Departures
-Southwest Limited DP 7:30 PM-----AR CUS 8:50 AM

Arrivals
-Southwest Limited AR 7:25 AM----DP CUS 6:10 PM

Rock Island via Quad Cities, IL/IA
To La Salle St 
Departures
-Golden State DP 1:50 AM---AR LST 11:45 AM Originates Los Angeles, CA
-Imperial DP 8:00 PM---------AR LST 8:40 AM Originates Los Angeles, CA


Arrivals
-Imperial AR 8:00 AM----------DP LST 8:15 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA
-Golden State AR 11:00 PM---DP LST 1:20 PM Terminates Los Angeles, CA


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 8, 2021)

railiner said:


> What about the other routes between Chicago and Detroit?
> Besides the MC, I believe you could take the Grand Trunk Western, the Pere Marquette, and the PRR/Wabash...





Seaboard92 said:


> I don't think the others had thru cars. Now if you were a serious milage buff I could think of several ways you could go between both points on multiple roads.



In the late ‘60s when train-offs were rampant......Grand Trunk Western discontinued a little used overnight sleeper between Detroit and Chicago. But instead of just letting it go........they launched a fast afternoon schedule the _Mohawk_ modelled on parent Canadian National’s famous _Rapido_. Train lasted 'till Amtrak.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 8, 2021)

Los Angeles-Bay Area
One Operator with two different routes. The Santa Fe offered the Golden Gate service between Bakersfield, CA and Oakland, CA with connecting bus to Los Angeles similar to the Amtrak San Joaquin. 

Southern Pacific
Oakland Arriving Trains run via Bakersfield, San Fransisco Arriving Trains run via the Coast Line

Departures
-Local DP 12:01 AM-------------------AR SFO 3:45 PM
-San Joaquin Daylight DP 6:20 AM--AR OAK 6:20 PM
-Morning Daylight DP 7:15 AM-------AR SFO 5:00 PM
-Owl DP 4:40 PM----------------------AR OAK 7:15 AM
-Starlight DP 6:45PM------------------AR SFO 5:45 AM Coach Only
-Lark DP 8:00 PM---------------------AR SFO 8:00 AM All Pullman
-Local DP 9:10 PM--------------------AR OAK 5:20 PM

Arrivals
-Starlight AR 5:45 AM-----------------DP SFO 6:45 PM Coach Only
-Local AR 6:00 AM--------------------DP OAK 9:30 AM
-Lark AR 8:00 AM----------------------DP SFO 8:00 PM All Pullman
-Owl AR 10:45 AM---------------------DP OAK 8:00 PM
-Local AR 4:15 PM---------------------DP SFO 11:45 PM
-Morning Daylight AR 5:00 PM-------DP SFO 7:15 AM
-San Joaquin Daylight AR 6:25 PM--DP OAK 6:20 AM


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 8, 2021)

Seattle to Portland Pool Train
Three operators pooled their resources to operate on this route. The Hill Roads the Great Northern, and Northern Pacific operated on the existing Amtrak Cascades route. While the Union Pacific shared that route to Tacoma and went onto the Milwaukee Road into Seattle Union Station. It should be known that Union Pacific bought EMD's Train of Tomorrow for this route. It was the 8:00 AM NB out of PDX and the 4:45 PM SB Departure from SUS. 

Departures
-UP Pool DP 8:00 AM---------AR SUS 11:59 AM
-UP Pool DP 8:30 AM---------AR SUS 1:45 PM
-NP Pool DP 10:00 AM--------AR KST 2:00 PM
-GN Pool DP 5:00 PM---------AR KST 9:15 PM
-GN Pool DP 11:45 PM-------AR KST 6:15 AM

Arrivals 
-GN Pool AR 6:45 AM-------------DP KST 11:45 PM
-GN Pool AR 12:20 PM-----------DP KST 8:20 AM
-UP Pool AR 1:45 PM-------------DP SUS 8:30 AM
-NP Pool AR 4:30 PM-------------DP KST 12:30 PM
-UP Pool AR 9:15 PM-------------DP SUS 4:45 PM

Seattle to Vancouver, BC
Only the Great Northern was operating on this route. However they had better service than Amtrak on the same route. 
Departures
-Morning International DP 8:10 AM----------AR KST 12:05 PM
-Noon International DP 12:30 PM------------AR KST 4:25 PM
-Local DP 4:10 PM----------------------------AR KST 9:35 PM
-Evening International DP 6:15 PM----------AR KST 9:35 PM

Arrivals
-Morning International AR 11:40 AM--------DP KST 7:45 AM
-Local AR 2:00 PM----------------------------DP KST 8:00 AM
-Noon International AR 5:25 PM-------------DP KST 1:30 PM
-Evening International AR 9:35 PM----------DP KST 6:00 PM


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## IndyLions (Jan 8, 2021)

[/QUOTE]


NS VIA Fan said:


> In the late ‘60s when train-offs were rampant......Grand Trunk Western discontinued a little used overnight sleeper between Detroit and Chicago. But instead of just letting it go........they launched a fast afternoon schedule the _Mohawk_ modelled on parent Canadian National’s famous _Rapido_. Train lasted 'till Amtrak.





In that timeframe (late 60's early 70's) my Dad would often work as a vacation replacement block operator for the Pennsy/PennCentral in Vicksburg, MI - which you'll find on that timetable NS VIA Fan posted (CHI-DET & CHI-TOR). Vicksburg was at the junction of the Pennsy's North-South Grand Rapids & Indiana line and the Grand Trunk's main line. I have a picture of the last passenger train to stop at the Vicksburg Depot - the Maple Leaf. 

That station was probably one of the main reasons I love trains to this day - the main reason being my father of course.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 8, 2021)

Another midwest route. 

Indianapolis-St. Louis
Two Railroads offered services on this route but almost all of the trains continued on to points east. The New York Central System and the Pennsylvania Railroad. 

New York Central System
Departures
-Gateway DP 1:47 AM-------------------------------AR STL 7:50 AM Originates Cleveland, OH
-Knickerbocker DP 6:50 AM------------------------AR STL 11:45 AM Originates in New York, NY and Boston, MA 
-Southwestern Limited DP 10:55 AM--------------AR STL 3:55 PM Originates in New York, NY
-Cleveland-St. Louis Special 5:40 PM-------------AR STL 11:10 PM Originates Cleveland, OH 

Arrivals 
-Cleveland-Cincinnati Special AR 4:25 AM--DP STL 11:10 PM Terminates Cleveland, OH
-2nd No. 40 AR 5:00 AM--------------------DP STL 10:00 PM
-Southwestern Limited AR 1:55 PM------DP STL 9:25 AM For New York, NY
-Knickerbocker AR 5:10 PM---------------DP STL 12:45 PM For New York, NY and Boston, MA 
-Missourian AR 10:12 PM------------------DP STL 5:30 PM For New York, NY and Boston, MA 

Pennsylvania Railroad
Departures
-Local DP 2:00 AM-----------------------AR STL 7:30 AM Originates in Pittsburgh, PA 
-St. Louisian DP 3:58 AM----------------AR STL 8:20 AM Originates in New York, NY/Washington, DC
-Spirit of St. Louis DP 7:15 AM---------AR STL 12:10 PM Originates in New York, NY/Washington, DC All Pullman
-Jeffersonian DP 9:23 AM--------------AR STL 1:40 PM Originates in New York, NY/Washington, DC Coach Only
-Penn Texas DP 10:32 AM-------------AR STL 3:00 PM Originates in New York, NY/Washington, DC Carries Cars for Texas Points
-American DP 11:47 AM---------------AR STL 4:15 PM Originates in New York, NY/Washington, DC
-Mail & Express DP 5:30 PM----------AR STL 10:00 PM Originates in Pittsburgh, PA

Arrivals
-Allegheny AR 3:07 AM----------------DP STL 11:02 PM Terminates in Pittsburgh, PA 
-Mail & Express AR 6:00 AM----------DP STL 11:15 PM Terminates in Pittsburgh, PA 
-American AR 1:09 PM----------------DP STL 9:00 AM Terminates in New York, NY/Washington, DC 
-Penn Texas AR 2:25 PM--------------DP STL 10:15 AM Terminates in New York, NY/Washington, DC Carries Cars from Texas Points
-Spirit of St. Louis AR 4:50 PM--------DP STL 12:30 PM Terminates in New York, NY/Washington, DC All Pullman 
-Jeffersonian AR 5:05 PM-------------DP STL 1:00 PM Terminates in New York, NY/Washington, DC Coach Only
-St. Louisian AR 10:50 PM------------DP STL 6:30 PM Terminates in New York, NY/Washington, DC


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## 20th Century Rider (Jan 8, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> I traveled on C&NW in 1952, but don't recall a train named "Viking".


The Soo Dominion Viking was associated with the old CNW system and ran between CHI [CPT being the station code for the CNW Station] and MSP.

Below is a pic of the Viking backing into CPT and the timetable showing its operation.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jan 9, 2021)

IndyLions said:


> In that timeframe (late 60's early 70's) my Dad would often work as a vacation replacement block operator for the Pennsy/PennCentral in Vicksburg, MI - which you'll find on that timetable NS VIA Fan posted (CHI-DET & CHI-TOR). Vicksburg was at the junction of the Pennsy's North-South Grand Rapids & Indiana line and the Grand Trunk's main line. I have a picture of the last passenger train to stop at the Vicksburg Depot - the Maple Leaf.
> 
> That station was probably one of the main reasons I love trains to this day - the main reason being my father of course.



Did you see the great article in the current issue of _Passenger Train Journal_ on the Pennsy's _Northern Arrow_ that passed thru Vicksburg on it's way to Mackinaw City?


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## Dakota 400 (Jan 9, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> The Soo Dominion Viking was associated with the old CNW system and ran between CHI [CPT being the station code for the CNW Station] and MSP.
> 
> Below is a pic of the Viking backing into CPT and the timetable showing its operation.



Thank you. I continue learning.


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## Willbridge (Jan 9, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Chicago-Kansas City
> Another route with a good variety of routes and equipment. The major player being the Santa Fe, but there were also the Burlington Route, Milwaukee Road, and Rock Island. The Gulf Mobile & Ohio had a cross platform connection in Bloomington, IL that I did not include. Another market that has more trains running thru than terminating. 8 Trains Terminate of the 22 that run in this corridor.
> 
> Santa Fe via Ft. Madison, IA and Joliet, IL
> ...


My dad rode the GM&O KCY<>CHI connection. It was a motor car between Kansas City and Bloomington that fed the _Abraham Lincoln. _Before the Santa Fe line was built that was the fastest route between KCY and CHI. One other note: the Milwaukee Road overnight train had a Milwaukee section -- around, not through, Chicago (to borrow a slogan).


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## Willbridge (Jan 10, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Seattle to Portland Pool Train
> Three operators pooled their resources to operate on this route. The Hill Roads the Great Northern, and Northern Pacific operated on the existing Amtrak Cascades route. While the Union Pacific shared that route to Tacoma and went onto the Milwaukee Road into Seattle Union Station. It should be known that Union Pacific bought EMD's Train of Tomorrow for this route. It was the 8:00 AM NB out of PDX and the 4:45 PM SB Departure from SUS.
> 
> Departures
> ...


Thanx for getting the Pool Line into this parade! A couple of notes:

+ At the time this schedule was in effect, UP Pool trains went out of Portland on the UP through the Albina Yard and the Peninsula Tunnel (most Portlanders don't know that there is a railway tunnel inside the city). At North Portland Jct. they went onto the SP&S to Vancouver (this Hill-Harriman cooperation came late in the game -- the SP&S bridge over the Columbia includes a pier built by the UP before they realized it would be insane to build another parallel line). From Vancouver to Kalama they run on the NP line that Hill built (replacing the Kalama<>Goble car ferry that Villard began with). From Kalama to Reservation, just past Tacoma Union Station they ran on the original NP. From Reservation they ran under the catenary on the Milwaukee Road, then crossed over the NP main line onto the Pacific Coast RR (a GN subsidiary) and then on their own tracks into the yards or Union Station. The moral of this story is that rail companies can learn to cooperate with each other.

+ The other Pool members hated the UP Train of Tomorrow. Customers wanted to know why there was no dome on their trains. Only a few noticed other features such as the NP's premiere status, usually having the fastest schedule.

+ The overnight Trains 401/402 rotated between the three companies. That meant that every third year they switched stations north of Tacoma. My dad used to type his monthly report in Portland in late evenings, jump in his Studebaker and drive downtown to Union Station and mail it with a special delivery stamp to the _Seattle Times._ It would be on his boss' desk before the office opened. "Faster than e-mail" he says now.

+ Check the CP schedules for their service between Vancouver, BC and Seattle. I think the GN did have competition, at least for tourists. By this time, however, the NP-CP train via Sumas and Mission City, which once carried a through Montreal<>Seattle sleeper was gone.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 10, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> Thanx for getting the Pool Line into this parade! A couple of notes:
> 
> + At the time this schedule was in effect, UP Pool trains went out of Portland on the UP through the Albina Yard and the Peninsula Tunnel (most Portlanders don't know that there is a railway tunnel inside the city). At North Portland Jct. they went onto the SP&S to Vancouver (this Hill-Harriman cooperation came late in the game -- the SP&S bridge over the Columbia includes a pier built by the UP before they realized it would be insane to build another parallel line). From Vancouver to Kalama they run on the NP line that Hill built (replacing the Kalama<>Goble car ferry that Villard began with). From Kalama to Reservation, just past Tacoma Union Station they ran on the original NP. From Reservation they ran under the catenary on the Milwaukee Road, then crossed over the NP main line onto the Pacific Coast RR (a GN subsidiary) and then on their own tracks into the yards or Union Station. The moral of this story is that rail companies can learn to cooperate with each other.
> 
> ...



Could you help me visualize that approach to Seattle as I can't visualize it at all. I've been to Seattle fairly often and I can trace the Milwaukee Road. 

I could see the other Pool members hating the Train of Tomorrow. I wonder what has survived of that train. 

I don't see anything on the CP or NP in my guide. I would love to know more about that Montreal-Seattle Sleeper.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 10, 2021)

Now here is a fun one that technically isn't a corridor because most of the trains are overnight. But the sheer variety of trains and routes make it worth noting. 

New York-Chicago
The two largest operators in this market are the New York Central System (2 Routes via the Water Level Route, and the Michigan Central), and the Pennsylvania Railroad. Then some lesser used routes the Erie, Baltimore & Ohio, and the Delaware, Lackawanna, & Western/Nickel Plate Road. I believe at one time there was also a thru car with the Lehigh Valley, Canadian National, and Grand Trunk & Western.

New York Central
Trains operating via the Water Level Route run to La Salle St, Michigan Central to Central Station Chicago. 
Water Level Route via Albany, Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo. Michigan Central via Albany, Buffalo, Detroit, Kalamazoo. 
Departures
-South Shore Express DP 1:35 AM----------------AR LST 1:00 AM
-North Shore Express DP 11:00 AM---------------AR CCT 8:15 AM Via Detroit 
-Pacemaker DP 3:00 PM---------------------------AR LST 7:30 AM Coach Only
-Advance Commodore Vanderbilt DP 3:00 PM--AR LST 7:30 AM All-Pullman
-Commodore Vanderbilt DP 4:30 PM-------------AR LST 8:00 AM All-Pullman
-20th Century Limited DP 5:00 PM----------------AR LST 8:30 AM All-Pullman No intermediate Stops
-Lake Shore Limited DP 5:30 PM------------------AR LST 11:59 AM
-Wolverine DP 6:35 PM-----------------------------AR LST 11:30 AM Runs via Detroit
-Iroquois DP 10:00 PM-------------------------------AR LST 5:15 PM
-Chicagoian DP 10:30 PM--------------------------AR LST 3:30 PM

Arrivals
-Fifth Avenue Special AR 6:50 AM----------------DP LST 11:30 AM
-New York Special AR 7:10 AM--------------------DP CCT 9:35 AM Runs via Detroit
-Commodore Vanderbilt AR 8:00 AM--------------DP LST 2:30 PM All-Pullman
-20th Century Limited AR 8:30 AM----------------DP LST 3:00 PM All-Pullman No intermediate Stops
-Pacemaker AR 8:45 AM---------------------------DP LST 2:35 PM Coach Only
-Commodore II AR 8:45 AM----------------------DP LST 2:35 PM All-Pullman
-Wolverine AR 9:35 AM---------------------------DP LST 2:10 PM Runs via Detroit 
-Lake Shore Limited AR 12:35 PM----------------DP LST 6:00 PM
-Mohawk AR 5:35 PM------------------------------DP LST 4:40 PM 
-Chicagoian AR 6:00 PM--------------------------DP LST 10:30 PM 

Pennsylvania Railroad 
To Chicago Union Station
Runs via North Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne
Departures
-Manhattan Limited DP 1:50 PM-----------------AR CUS 6:20 AM
-General/Trailblazer DP 4:00 PM-------------------AR CUS 7:20 AM
-Broadway Limited DP 5:00 PM-------------------AR CUS 8:00 AM All-Pullman
-Pennsylvania Limited DP 5:45 PM---------------AR CUS 9:30 AM
-Admiral DP 7:15 PM------------------------------AR CUS 12:30 PM
-Gotham Limited DP 11:35 PM--------------------AR CUS 3:40 PM

Arrivals
-Manhattan Limited AR 6:40 AM-----------------DP CUS 12:01 PM
-General/Trailblazer AR 8:20 AM-----------------DP CUS 3:00 PM
-Broadway Limited AR 8:30 AM-----------------DP CUS 3:30 PM All-Pullman
-Admiral AR 10:45 AM---------------------------DP CUS 4:30 PM
-Pennsylvania Limited AR 11:25 AM------------DP CUS 6:00 PM
-Gotham Limited AR 5:25 PM--------------------DP CUS 9:15 PM

Delaware, Lackawanna, & Western
Trains Depart from Hoboken Terminal and arrive at La Salle St. 
Runs with the Nickel Plate Road. 
Via Scranton, Buffalo, Cleveland, Fort Wayne
Departures
-Westerner DP 7:15 PM---------AR LST 2:40 PM

Arrivals
-New Yorker AR 6:30 AM-------DP LST 9:20 AM

Erie
Trains Depart from Pavonia Terminal Jersey City and arrive Dearborn Station
Via Binghamton, Akron
Departures
-Erie Limited DP 8:30 AM------------------AR CDB 6:55 AM
-Lake Cities DP 7:30 PM-------------------AR CDB 3:55 PM
-Pacific Express DP 11:40 PM-------------AR CDB 12:25 AM

Arrivals 
-Lake Cities AR 7:25 AM------------------DP CDB 9:25 AM
-Erie Limited AR 6:00 PM-----------------DP CDB 5:00 PM
-Atlantic Express AR 10:28 PM----------DP CDB 10:00 PM

Baltimore & Ohio
Trains Depart from Comminpaw Terminal Jersey City, Arrive at Grand Central Station
Via Washington, DC, Pittsburgh, PA, Akron, OH 
Departures
-Capitol Limited DP 11:45 AM-------------AR CGC 7:00 AM All-Pullman after Washington
-Shenandoah DP 6:05 PM-----------------AR CGC 2:30 PM

Arrivals 
-Capitol Limited AR 1:00 PM--------------DP CGC 4:00 PM All-Pullman before Washington
-Shenandoah AR 8:15 PM-----------------DP CGC 10:10 PM


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## Willbridge (Jan 10, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Could you help me visualize that approach to Seattle as I can't visualize it at all. I've been to Seattle fairly often and I can trace the Milwaukee Road.
> 
> I could see the other Pool members hating the Train of Tomorrow. I wonder what has survived of that train.
> 
> I don't see anything on the CP or NP in my guide. I would love to know more about that Montreal-Seattle Sleeper.


The key point was Black River. Between Reservation and Black River the Milwaukee Road with the UP as tenant was on the west side of the double-track NP line. It's easy to spot from Amtrak trains. At Black River they crossed over onto trackage rights on the Pacific Coast Railroad and passenger tracks into Union Station. UP freight went back across the NP into Argo Yard. I checked and Black River, WA shows up on Google Maps.

However, some changes were made on behalf of Sound Transit commuter trains and line abandonments. In the June 1916 _Guide _the Pacific Coast Railroad had a Seattle passenger station of its own and I'm not sure where that was.

I don't know if any of the Train of Tomorrow survived. I know that the dome diner was retired first due to corrosion. The April 30, 1961 UP schedule shows the Dome Lounge (for First Class passengers only) and the Astra-dome sleeper running as a "Room Parlor Car" with its 8 duplex roomettes, 3 compartments and 2 drawing rooms. That was in addition to a conventional parlor car. There is no mention of the dome diner, just a conventional diner listing. By the January 1962 UP schedule the straight Parlor Car was gone. By the mid-60's the train was no longer identified (in UP material) as a 'Domeliner'. The Pool Line pocket schedule did not use the Domeliner name.

After the direct overnight CP ships between Vancouver, BC and Seattle were discontinued, they continued with interlined Vancouver, BC <> Victoria and Victoria<>Seattle runs with a layover in Victoria. Interestingly, they were shown in the Connections pages of the GN public timetables.

I don't know how long the Montreal<>Seattle sleeper lasted and I can't find it in the June 1916 Guide, so leave that as a question mark. Seattle cars from St. Paul _were_ switched at Mission, BC. Because the NP train was the only one on that line it ran local all the way to Seattle as a plodding trip. The NP schedule does not show a diner although it ran across a mealtime in each direction. Additional discrepancies include the Soo Line showing a Chicago<>Seattle sleeper in a full page ad, while the CP only showed the St. Paul <> Seattle cars. There also were time discrepancies between the three companies.

In puzzling through the sideways and squeezed in type in the 1916 Guide I was reminded that there was a Soo Line service between St. Paul and Montreal that they advertised as the only such line. A lot of the more exotic sleeping car lines were curtailed during the USRRA period and did not come back in 1920 or came back as seasonal services.

The weak relations between the NP and CP carried on. In 1966 we ran a two-day excursion from Portland to Vancouver, BC on the NP via Bellevue (bypassing Seattle). The CP handled it from Sumas north. For the return I had to explain to the taxi driver that yes, I was going to the CPR station to catch a train to Portland. He had tried to talk me out of it to take me to the CNR station. When I got to the right station and met up with the NP traffic reps who rode with us, the CPR would not let us get onto the platform to set up the tour handouts, etc. for "safety" reasons. The NP guys were mad! Next year we ran it again, with chartered buses between Sumas and our Vancouver hotels.

At Sumas-Huntingdon there were four standard wood frame stations - NP and the Milwaukee Road on the American side and CP and BC Electric on the Canadian side. There was an electric eye across the tracks to monitor pedestrians, as the agents would cross back and forth with paper work. Our buses came back too quickly so we had time to spare. My friend and I walked back into Canada and chatted with the CP agent and then walked back into the U.S. with no problem.


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## IndyLions (Jan 11, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Did you see the great article in the current issue of _Passenger Train Journal_ on the Pennsy's _Northern Arrow_ that passed thru Vicksburg on it's way to Mackinaw City?



I didn’t. I’m going to order that issue. Thanks.


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## jiml (Jan 11, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> The key point was Black River. Between Reservation and Black River the Milwaukee Road with the UP as tenant was on the west side of the double-track NP line. It's easy to spot from Amtrak trains. At Black River they crossed over onto trackage rights on the Pacific Coast Railroad and passenger tracks into Union Station. UP freight went back across the NP into Argo Yard. I checked and Black River, WA shows up on Google Maps.
> 
> However, some changes were made on behalf of Sound Transit commuter trains and line abandonments. In the June 1916 _Guide _the Pacific Coast Railroad had a Seattle passenger station of its own and I'm not sure where that was.
> 
> ...


Ah, the days when trains (and people) passed freely back-and-forth across the border.


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## Willbridge (Jan 21, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Could you help me visualize that approach to Seattle as I can't visualize it at all. I've been to Seattle fairly often and I can trace the Milwaukee Road.
> 
> I could see the other Pool members hating the Train of Tomorrow. I wonder what has survived of that train.
> 
> I don't see anything on the CP or NP in my guide. I would love to know more about that Montreal-Seattle Sleeper.



Here's some more info on the Pool Line and the CP-GN competition Seattle<>Vancouver, BC.

Before the Pool, each of the three railways ran competing schedules. Here is an example from 1919. You'll also see the CP and GN schedules to BC. Until the late 1950's the UP ran on its own line from Portland Union Station to North Portland Jct. In the attached 1959 schedule below that they had moved over to the SP&S line which smoothed out the switching of sleepers from SP12 to UP457 and kept the passenger train out of the Albina Yards. Hope that helps visualize Seattle, too.


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## neroden (Jan 22, 2021)

Empire Corridor please  Also Chicago-Syracuse, NY trains.


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