# WFH/PDX connection late



## margo (Feb 10, 2014)

I have a trip with a roomette booked for March 5-14-LCH/WFH round trip. I received a call from Amtrak saying #27 is consistently late now and Amtrak will not guarantee my connections in PDX . If I leave my ticket like it is, and #27 is late, the rest of my trip is thrown off. I wasn't planning on spending the night in PDX or LAX, but I will if I have to. I called AGR to try to change my departure from WFH to 1 day earlier to compensate for their lateness, but was told that will cost me another 15,000 points. Their lateness is not my fault. I want either guaranteed connections in PDX & LAX or change my WFH departure with no extra point charge. I think I need to do this before my trip so I can be assured of a roomette. I hope this makes sense and that one of you experts can give me a suggestion. I plan to call a supervisor today. Thank you very much.


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2014)

Definitely talk to a supervisor. Overnight stays are not usually allowed on points travel without starting a whole new segment. However, since the Empire Builder connections can't be guaranteed, they are temporarily allowing overnight connections with no additional point charge. Check out this thread here, specifically the announcement from AGR:



> *AGR redemption travel connecting from the Empire Builder*
> As you may be aware, some previously guaranteed connections from the Empire Builder were suspended/removed by Amtrak this week due to excessive delays. We have decided to allow an overnight(s) at the customer's expense, as part of the same redemption, at PDX or CHI to catch the next run of these trains that were previously guaranteed connections from the Builder. This exception would remain in effect until/unless the guaranteed connections are restored or modified. The contact center leadership is aware of the decision and should be allowing this exception as of yesterday. If the individual agent is unaware of the exception, please ask him/her to consult with a lead agent or supervisor who would have the information available.
> 
> Examples:
> ...


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## margo (Feb 12, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. I'm still getting the same answer- any change, 15,000 points & no guaranteed connections to PDX. If we have to overnight in PDX, we will also have to change our tickets from PDX to LAX and from Lax to LCH. This will result in us having to overnight in LAX because the SL only runs East bound Wed., Fri., Sun. Will this cost extra points? This is so frustrating, we will not travel on the EB until this gets better. Thank you for any suggestions.


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 12, 2014)

margo said:


> Thank you for your reply. I'm still getting the same answer- any change, 15,000 points & no guaranteed connections to PDX. If we have to overnight in PDX, we will also have to change our tickets from PDX to LAX and from Lax to LCH. This will result in us having to overnight in LAX because the SL only runs East bound Wed., Fri., Sun. Will this cost extra points? This is so frustrating, we will not travel on the EB until this gets better. Thank you for any suggestions.


Go to FlyerTalk.com, if not a member, create an id (it's free), then PM AGR Insider for clarification.


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## Ryan (Feb 12, 2014)

What is your exact itinerary now?

There doesn't seem to be a guaranteed connection between the CS arriving at 9:00 and the SL leaving at 10:00. Are you doing the CS to OXJ and then the 714 San Joaquin to Bakersfield and then bus to LAX?

Either way, what it sounds like you are trying to do (leave WFH a day early so you can overnight in PDX and still travel WFH-LCH on a single 2 zone award) should be legal (as long as the CS-SL connection bit is OK).

If you haven't had any luck on the phone, your best bet may be to head over to Flyertalk and send AGR Insider a message. He's a good guy and can usually help get things straight.


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, the problem may be your connection at LAX. If the rest of your schedule shifting is having you spend an overnight in LA waiting for the next Sunset, it will definitely cost more points.

The connection from train #11 to train #2 is a valid connection (and is guaranteed usually, but see below), but only if you schedule arrival into LAX on the same day that #2 leaves. If you schedule it so that you arrive into LA intending to wait around for the _next_ day's #2, your trip is considered over at LAX, and any further travel from there would be a new points redemption.

So, if you leave WFH on March 5th, you will have all same day connections, and it will be one 2-zone redemption, but you won't have a guaranteed connection at PDX which is probably a huge problem. If you leave WFH on March 4, _you need to leave the other trains alone_ and not change them, or you'll break your connection at LAX. So, you'd need to leave WFH on March 4th, arriving to PDX on March 5. Then, stay overnight in Portland and board #11 on March 6. You'll arrive in LAX on March 7 and make a same day connection to that night's #2. Scheduling that way would also be a valid 2 zone reward, regardless of what a phone agent says. You may have to get AGR Insder (Anthony Rizos) to lay the smack down on the clueless agents, though.

(Now, there's another wrinkle in that #2 leaves early most days until the end of this March due to trackwork, so they have to take you off #11 in Oakland, then put you on a San Joaquin to Bakersfield, then a bus from there to get you to LAX in time for #2's earlier departure). That doesn't change anything point wise, it just makes it a less attractive trip, so I wanted to make sure you knew.)


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## margo (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks so much for the info about Flyertalk. I will check it out.

Our original homebound itinerary is WFH to PDX Mar 10, PDX to LAX Mar 11, LAX to LCH Mar 12. No agent mentioned that the CS/SL was not a guaranteed connection(although, 1 hour does seem close).


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## Ryan (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, if you go to Amtrak.com and put in PDX-LCH, it just gives you the bus option. You were lucky to get that one hour connection (and I'd be nervous about it).

On the other end, moving your departure a day early and overnighting on your dime *shouldn't* be a problem. I suspect that the LA connection is throwing flags and causing issues.


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## margo (Feb 12, 2014)

Ryan S., I love you member photo! That's exactly how I feel (frustrated) with this trip. We've made several LD AGR trips and never had all this hassle.


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## Ryan (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks, that's my daughter. She's awesome. 

I'm not blaming you, but it sounds like this trip was messed up from the beginning (if it was in fact on one redemption).


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## Aaron (Feb 12, 2014)

margo said:


> Thanks so much for the info about Flyertalk. I will check it out.
> 
> Our original homebound itinerary is WFH to PDX Mar 10, PDX to LAX Mar 11, LAX to LCH Mar 12. No agent mentioned that the CS/SL was not a guaranteed connection(although, 1 hour does seem close).


On normal days, when the SL is scheduled to leave at 10:00, it's a guaranteed connection, even though the CS is only scheduled to arrive 1 hour before. Most days, the CS is early, and if it wasn't, they would hold the departing SL to wait for it unless it was going to be several hours late.



RyanS said:


> Yeah, if you go to Amtrak.com and put in PDX-LCH, it just gives you the bus option. You were lucky to get that one hour connection (and I'd be nervous about it).
> 
> On the other end, moving your departure a day early and overnighting on your dime *shouldn't* be a problem. I suspect that the LA connection is throwing flags and causing issues.


Margo, here's what Amtrak did: They rescheduled the departure times for #2 in Feb and March on the days that track work was happening. _But_, instead of going back and breaking the CS/SL connection just for those days, they broke it for the whole two month period, even though it should be perfectly valid on a day like March 12 when #2 leaves at the normal time. So, if you search on the website for a train that's connecting that day, you get only the San Joaquin/bus combo as an option, even though staying on #11 until LAX would get you there in plenty of time otherwise.

Since the connection in LAX is not a published route on that day, AGR could try to deny you that since they won't book travel on a single segment that's not a published route. I suspect you booked your original itinerary (leaving WFH March 10) before the track work was announced a couple of weeks ago, so they had no problem booking it then. If you tried to book the same exact itinerary today, they would probably have a problem because of the broken connection of the CS/SL and try to force you to the train/bus combo, _despite the schedule being exactly the same_.

So, when you're calling and saying that you want to move the WFH-PDX segment earlier by one day and leave everything else as is, even an agent who understood what was going there and allowed the overnight would probably still run into problems booking the connection at LAX. Since it's not a published route with the connection, but WFH-LAX and LAX-LCH are both published routes by themselves, they'd want to charge you more points (15,000 for the WFH-LAX portion, then 20,000 for the LAX-LCH portion, which totals to 15,000 more than you thought you should be paying.

I would hope that could be escalated and fixed since WFH-LCH is a published route with those times any other time of the year. However, it does seem like it's possibly a little more difficult than just educating a rep about the allowed overnight in Portland.


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## Ryan (Feb 12, 2014)

Aaron said:


> Margo, here's what Amtrak did: They rescheduled the departure times for #2 in Feb and March on the days that track work was happening. _But_, instead of going back and breaking the CS/SL connection just for those days, they broke it for the whole two month period, even though it should be perfectly valid on a day like March 12 when #2 leaves at the normal time. So, if you search on the website for a train that's connecting that day, you get only the San Joaquin/bus combo as an option, even though staying on #11 until LAX would get you there in plenty of time otherwise.


Thanks, that's the data point I was missing.

Looks like a problem for AGR Insider to exercise some common sense on. Hopefully he can get it fixed.


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## margo (Feb 12, 2014)

After looking at my itinerary, what is you guys opinion, if I don't change any thing? I don't mind spending the night in PDX or LAX. I can even survive the Oakland/Bakersfield run. I just want to be sure we have a roomette all the way home and I don't want to be charged any more points. If we can't get our roomette, and have to ride coach, will we get a points refund? Thanks again.


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## Trainut (Feb 12, 2014)

margo said:


> After looking at my itinerary, what is you guys opinion, if I don't change any thing? I don't mind spending the night in PDX or LAX. I can even survive the Oakland/Bakersfield run. I just want to be sure we have a roomette all the way home and I don't want to be charged any more points. If we can't get our roomette, and have to ride coach, will we get a points refund? Thanks again.


It has been my experience that AGR DOES NOT refund points. In the past the only compensation I received was a voucher. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


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## JayPea (Feb 13, 2014)

Trainut said:


> margo said:
> 
> 
> > After looking at my itinerary, what is you guys opinion, if I don't change any thing? I don't mind spending the night in PDX or LAX. I can even survive the Oakland/Bakersfield run. I just want to be sure we have a roomette all the way home and I don't want to be charged any more points. If we can't get our roomette, and have to ride coach, will we get a points refund? Thanks again.
> ...


That's happened to me once, and I did get a partial refund of points. On this occasion, I was scheduled to travel the CZ from Chicago to Sacramento. The CZ was cancelled and I rode coach on the SWC instead to Los Angeles and then on the CS to Sacramento (and points north) on the CS in a bedroom. At that time bedrooms were 35,000 points and I got a 10,000 refund.


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## margo (Feb 13, 2014)

I posted my question on Flyertalk.com (no response yet). I would just like to know if I will have a room all the way home, whatever changes Amtrak makes. We used to love Amtrak travel, not so sure now, depending on how this trip plays out.


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