# Airline Says NO MORE BABIES In First Class



## Devil's Advocate (Jun 28, 2011)

> First-class passengers aboard some Malaysia Airlines flights won't have to worry about being woken up by a crying baby anymore. The airline has banned infants in first class of its Boeing 747-400 jets and has plans to do the same in their new Airbus A380 superjumbo jets, the Australian Business Traveller reported.


*Link...*

What do y'all think of this new rule?


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## Ryan (Jun 28, 2011)

I voted "other" because I don't really care either way. I'd imagine that some people will jump on the chance for not having kids around and those that want to fly up front with their kids will just choose another airline.

I'd hate to see it become universal, though.


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## trainman74 (Jun 29, 2011)

Since I'm an elite on United Airlines, I get upgraded to first class occasionally, and don't think I've ever seen a baby up there.

Granted, I've only ever been in first class on domestic flights -- the situation may be different for international flights (i.e., what the 747 and the A380 would be used on).


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## jis (Jun 29, 2011)

trainman74 said:


> Since I'm an elite on United Airlines, I get upgraded to first class occasionally, and don't think I've ever seen a baby up there.
> 
> Granted, I've only ever been in first class on domestic flights -- the situation may be different for international flights (i.e., what the 747 and the A380 would be used on).


If said international flight actually has First Class. Many don't.

I have seen plenty of babies in international Business Class though.


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## Shanghai (Jul 2, 2011)

We were all babies at one time in our lives!!

I have been on international first class flights with

children. Most have been well behaved. Those who

were not behaved most likely reflected on their parent's

values and standards of behavior.


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## jis (Jul 9, 2011)

One of the most spectacular First Class rides I have had was a short one from Singapore to Calcutta on Singapore Airlines when they briefly ran a three class 777 on that route. There were only four passengers in the cabin and three Singapore Girls to serve them. One of the four passengers was a baby, and no problem with the baby. She slept most of the way.

The food was exquisite! It's around a three hour or so flight as I recall, so most of the time was spent eating and drinking.

Soon after that it got changed to a two class 777.


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## George Harris (Jul 9, 2011)

Malaysia Airlines tends to want to try to one up Singapore Airlines. That probably has as much to do with this concept as anything.

Spending a few days in both of these can be interesting. In particular, read the main newspapers of Singapore and of Kuala Lumpur for the same day. Any news item involving the other, particularly involving their relationship looks completely different in the different papers. Even thier origin as separate countries after the departure of the British is given differently. My understanding is that originally Singapore was supposed to be part of the Malay Fereration, but that either did not happen at all or did not last very long.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 9, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Malaysia Airlines tends to want to try to one up Singapore Airlines. That probably has as much to do with this concept as anything.
> 
> Spending a few days in both of these can be interesting. In particular, read the main newspapers of Singapore and of Kuala Lumpur for the same day. Any news item involving the other, particularly involving their relationship looks completely different in the different papers. Even thier origin as separate countries after the departure of the British is given differently. My understanding is that originally Singapore was supposed to be part of the Malay Fereration, but that either did not happen at all or did not last very long.


The same effect happens with Canada when you compare our Northern Cousins to the Good Ole USA!

This is especially True in the Media, CBC and the Papers and Mags are much more "Newsy" than our Gossip/Scandal ridden Fish Wraps and Circus Shows on TV!!


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## jis (Jul 10, 2011)

George Harris said:


> Malaysia Airlines tends to want to try to one up Singapore Airlines. That probably has as much to do with this concept as anything.
> 
> Spending a few days in both of these can be interesting. In particular, read the main newspapers of Singapore and of Kuala Lumpur for the same day. Any news item involving the other, particularly involving their relationship looks completely different in the different papers. Even their origin as separate countries after the departure of the British is given differently. My understanding is that originally Singapore was supposed to be part of the Malay Fegeration, but that either did not happen at all or did not last very long.


Completely OT but here is a short summary..... The relation between Malaysia and Singapore has been one of love/hate and has been a complicated one. Originally the Malay Territory included Singapore, but did not include Malacca (which was a Dutch colony). The British and Dutch exchanged Malacca for Bencoolan, and thus what is Malaysia today came under single control. Initially the whole thing was governed out of Calcutta. Sir Stamford Raffles established Singapore as the new capital of the the Malay Federation when it was separated from the Viceroy of India's charge. Then upon independence from the Brits the original plan was for the entire Malay Federation, including Singapore to remain a single country. But that did not come to pass because the Malaysians were not willing to make the concessions necessary to accommodate the Chinese and Indian population of Singapore. There was a strong so called "Bhumiputra" movement in Malaysia which imposed special rules giving special privileges to Malaysian natives over all others. Singapore being more cosmopolitan than the Peninsula and the Island, separated from the federation to become a separate country. The Malaysians originally thought that Singapore will not last too long and will rejoin Malaysia. But just the opposite happened. Singapore became a strong country and Malaysia stumbled through several ethnic and economic problems. At least for now they seem to both have accepted status quo and are living more or less happily side by side.


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## George Harris (Jul 11, 2011)

jis said:


> George Harris said:
> 
> 
> > Malaysia Airlines tends to want to try to one up Singapore Airlines. That probably has as much to do with this concept as anything.
> ...


JIS: Thanks for a more complete summary of the situation. My memory was somewhat fuzzy since it had been something like 13 years since I spent a few months working in Singapore.

One of the basic alternatives in their history as give was: In Singapore it was in the book that Singapore *withdrew* from the Malay Federation. In Malaysian it was in the book that Singapore *was expelled* from the Malay Federation. That was also when there was a major to do, which I considered a tempest in a teapot, about where to do customs checking when catching a train in Singapore going to Malaysia. Up to that time you left Singapore and entered Malaysia when going onto the station platform in Singapore, and did the reverse on the return. Singapore wanted, and ultimately got the checking to move to a point at the border. There was also the issue of the status of the railway itself. So far as Malaysia was concerned, the Railway owned the right of way and station outright. So far as Singapore was concerned, the land and station were held by Malaysian Railway as an easement for the purposes of operating a railway only and they could make no use of it for non-railway purposes. I do not know how that one ultimately played out, but I would suspect that Singapore got their way.

By the way, for the info of others, in Singapore all signs are multilingual in four languages. In Malaysia they are not. The station sign on the platform in Singapore was in only one language, and it said, Singapura, which is the Malay was of spelling Singapore. At least, Malaysia uses the Roman alphabet. Also, to the relief of the English speaking foreignor, a lot of, maybe most of the people have some knowledge of English.

Some of the direct translations into English could be hilarious. One of my favorites, and I walked by in most days going to the contractor's office where I was assigned, was the Chinese restaurant that in English was the Famous Pig Organ Soup Restaurant. I never ate there.


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## jis (Jul 11, 2011)

George Harris said:


> That was also when there was a major to do, which I considered a tempest in a teapot, about where to do customs checking when catching a train in Singapore going to Malaysia. Up to that time you left Singapore and entered Malaysia when going onto the station platform in Singapore, and did the reverse on the return. Singapore wanted, and ultimately got the checking to move to a point at the border. There was also the issue of the status of the railway itself. So far as Malaysia was concerned, the Railway owned the right of way and station outright. So far as Singapore was concerned, the land and station were held by Malaysian Railway as an easement for the purposes of operating a railway only and they could make no use of it for non-railway purposes. I do not know how that one ultimately played out, but I would suspect that Singapore got their way.


Well the Singaporeans basically kicked the Malaysian immigration officials out across the Straits of Johore to Johore Bahru. The last time I took the train from Singapore to Malaysia about 10 years back, the Singapore immigration folks would stamp exit in the passport at Singapore station in Tanjong Pagar, but the Malaysians get their hands on the passport to stamp entry only after you cross the Straits of Johore on the causeway and get to Johore Bahru.

The latest they have been talking about dismantling the KTMB (Keretapi Tanah Melayu Berhad - the Malysian Railway) MG line back to Woodlands where they propose to build a new station adjacent to the Woodlands MRT stop. So if it comes to pass, this would be the final eviction of the Malayans from Singapore in a manner of speaking.



> By the way, for the info of others, in Singapore all signs are multilingual in four languages. In Malaysia they are not. The station sign on the platform in Singapore was in only one language, and it said, Singapura, which is the Malay was of spelling Singapore. At least, Malaysia uses the Roman alphabet. Also, to the relief of the English speaking foreigner, a lot of, maybe most of the people have some knowledge of English.


Also all announcements on Singapore's wonderful MRT system is in four languages for everything - English, Malay, Chinese and Tamil.

Seriously, Singapore's MRT puts most western subway/Metro systems to shame. But then again. KL's (Kuala Lumpur) Metro, LRT and suburban system is not too shabby either. But still, it is one notch below Singapore's

Incidentally Singapore is anglicized form of Singha Pur which in north Indian languages, and indeed in Malay too means Lion (Singha) City (Pur).

BTW, the Malaysians use the Roman alphabet for the written form of their language because before that they did not have a written form of the language. It was just as spoken language. Which is quite curious since their northern neighbors, the Thais had a pretty old written script and a language with lots of borrowed words from Sanskrit pronounced differently, sometimes in mutually unintelligible ways, until you figured out the transition rules. And then it becomes somewhat possible to understand most of Thai to someone that knows or understands a north Indian language.

And finally United Malaysia did exist for two years from 1963 to 1965, and then the final breakup happened, which as George says is represented quite differently in the history books of the two countries involved.


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## George Harris (Jul 12, 2011)

jis said:


> Well the Singaporeans basically kicked the Malaysian immigration officials out across the Straits of Johore to Johore Bahru. The last time I took the train from Singapore to Malaysia about 10 years back, the Singapore immigration folks would stamp exit in the passport at Singapore station in Tanjong Pagar, but the Malaysians get their hands on the passport to stamp entry only after you cross the Straits of Johore on the causeway and get to Johore Bahru.
> The latest they have been talking about dismantling the KTMB (Keretapi Tanah Melayu Berhad - the Malysian Railway) MG line back to Woodlands where they propose to build a new station adjacent to the Woodlands MRT stop. So if it comes to pass, this would be the final eviction of the Malayans from Singapore in a manner of speaking.


Not too much later than when I was there, which was about 4 months in 1998.



> Seriously, Singapore's MRT puts most western subway/Metro systems to shame.


Everybody makes sure it stays that way, and there is a huge "or else" for anyone who fail in that way. There is a saying that Singapore is a fine city. That is there is a fine for almost everything that works against cleanliness, such things as failure to flush a public toilet, dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk (In fact chewing gum is not sold in Singapore), littering of any kind, taking a Durian into the MRT, etc., etc. Any form of vandalism can and frequently will get you caned. There was a huge uproar about 20 years back when an American teenager who was a student in the American school there got several stokes with the cane for keying several cars. The uproar was raised primarily by his father who was divorced from the kid's mother and was in the US instead of in Singapore with the kid and his mother. My older kids and their friends (we were in Taipei at the time) were laughing about it saying, the brat is getting a severe spanking and there are people trying to make an international incident out of it.


> Incidentally Singapore is anglicized form of Singha Pur which in north Indian languages, and indeed in Malay too means Lion (Singha) City (Pur).


 Which is why, in English, they refer to themselves as the Lion City and there are statues of Lions in various places.


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## Shanghai (Jul 26, 2011)

Very interesting. I spent a year in Singapore in a Stanford graduate program at the National University of Singapore.

I still have several friends in Singapore and Malaysia. We vacationed on Sentosa Island several times.

I also researched the founding of Singapore by Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles. I stayed at the old Raffles Hotel

on two occasions and ate that terrible curry in the Tiffin Room. Of course, I frequented the Long Bar to have

a Singapore Sling!! I stayed at the new Raffles too, but the old hotel had much more charm.


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## jis (Jul 29, 2011)

Shanghai said:


> I stayed at the old Raffles Hotel
> 
> on two occasions and ate that terrible curry in the Tiffin Room. Of course, I frequented the Long Bar to have
> 
> a Singapore Sling!! I stayed at the new Raffles too, but the old hotel had much more charm.


If you like South and Southeast Asian food, "Banana Leaf" is a must in Singapore. It is close to the "Little India" MRT stop, and it actually serves the food on Banana Leaves! And it is an eat as much as you want setup at least for lunch. I always make it a point to go there whenever I am in Singapore. The food may be considered too spicy for the typical Western palette though. Of course in addition to the regular curry fare, there are unusual dishes like Fish Head Curry etc., which happens to be a delicacy in Southeast Asia and Eastern India. And the Mango Lassi is heavenly too!


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## Anderson (Sep 5, 2011)

I support a policy where you need to list the infant as such on your reservation and have to check a box acknowledging that you may be asked to take the baby back to coach (or even Business Class) if they get noisy and calm them down there.


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## jis (Sep 6, 2011)

Anderson said:


> I support a policy where you need to list the infant as such on your reservation and have to check a box acknowledging that you may be asked to take the baby back to coach (or even Business Class) if they get noisy and calm them down there.


Frankly, this is going to progressively become a less critical issue since as time goes on there are fewer and fewer international routes remaining with international first class service.

However, if such a policy were put in place it would be detrimental to the airlines bottom line since they would have to either refund the difference in fare to those who get downgraded or because a potential customer would go elsewhere, because of their baby.

The other problem with this plan is that where do you suppose they will find the space in Business or Economy class where the baby would be taken to? Keep some seats open and unsold for the eventuality?

So my fearless prediction is that this won't happen. Before such, a "baby free cabin" might happen, but anything that requires refunding fares or leaving a few seats unsold in the back and running an empty seats is not going to happen. And no one will dream of downgrading due to a crying baby without refunding fare either. Either way it will be a PR disaster for the airline in question, even though some fat cats might like it a lot. 

Frankly the problem is solved much more cheaply by giving each first class passenger a noise canceling headphone


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