# Bedbugs in coach/sleepers?



## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 12, 2015)

With the thousands of passengers aboard Amtrak trains, in coach and sleepers, are bedbugs a concern?

What does Amtrak do, if anything, to prevent them?

Thanks


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## OlympianHiawatha (Feb 12, 2015)

A couple three years ago there was a thread on this that ended up getting out of control before it finally died; you should be able to search it out in archives.


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## Phil S (Feb 12, 2015)

I've wondered about this also. The bedding all gets washed and the blankets now come in plastic bags, all of which helps but still......? Do the cars get fumigated at regular intervals?


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## me_little_me (Feb 12, 2015)

Amtrak does not provide the bugs with meals. If you find bedbugs in your room, you have to feed them yourself - AND pay for their transport (unless you remove them from your room).

Seriously, life is too short and bedbugs too rare in hotels, cruise ships and trains to worry about them. In 65+ years, traveling in many countries and states, I have never encountered one.

But then again, I carry my 357 magnum can of RAID and I'd shoot them between the eyes. You have to shoot them there because they will charge if wounded.


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## SarahZ (Feb 12, 2015)

WellTrained said:


> I've wondered about this also. The bedding all gets washed and the blankets now come in plastic bags, all of which helps but still......? Do the cars get fumigated at regular intervals?


Fumigation doesn't work very well. Exterminators treat bedbugs with heat. I don't believe the cars are fumigated/heated between trips. In fact, I seriously doubt it, given the turnaround time.

I imagine an exception would be made if cockroaches/bedbugs/etc were discovered.


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## dlagrua (Feb 12, 2015)

If you are that concerned, check the bed. If we suspect something we will spray the offending area with a bed bug spray that we carry. The only one that we use is made of natural plant tinctures, is non-staining and has no poisonous chemicals in it. The natural bed bug spray is the one to use as you avoid harmful pesticides and at the same time, you are being considerate to the other passengers.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2015)

WellTrained said:


> I've wondered about this also. The bedding all gets washed and the blankets now come in plastic bags, all of which helps but still......? Do the cars get fumigated at regular intervals?


Yes, they are fumigated at regular scheduled intervals. In addition if bugs or vermin are reported between regular scheduled intervals the car will be shopped and fumigated.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 12, 2015)

dlagrua said:


> we will spray the offending area with a bed bug spray that we carry. The only one that we use is made of natural plant tinctures, is non-staining and has no poisonous chemicals in it.


Is it commercially (?) available? What's the product's name? Thanks


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## Trainmans daughter (Feb 12, 2015)

There is a product called "Rest Easy" available at Bed Bath and Beyond. It's all organic and contains cinnamon, peppermint, and clove oils. Last week, our dog (who sleeps with us) had a minor flea problem so I washed the sheets and sprayed this stuff on the mattress. I can't scientifically prove its effectiveness, but I woke up with a craving for cinnamon rolls!


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## Ziv (Feb 13, 2015)

I have traveled the Gringo Trail backpacking for many a year, and some of the places I stayed were pretty seedy. I have only run into bedbugs maybe 2 or 3 times and none of them were here in the States and they bit me just the one night and didn't hitch a ride in my luggage or clothes. There are bedbugs in a lot of locations in the US, but I have never heard of any on an Amtrak train.

I wouldn't worry about bedbugs as much I would about the train being late, and there is nothing you can do about that but plan ahead.


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## cirdan (Feb 13, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> You have to shoot them there because they will charge if wounded.


How much do they charge?


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## fillyjonk (Feb 13, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> WellTrained said:
> 
> 
> > I've wondered about this also. The bedding all gets washed and the blankets now come in plastic bags, all of which helps but still......? Do the cars get fumigated at regular intervals?
> ...



"Exterminators treat bedbugs with heat."

Well, there's an explanation for the temperature level in the sleepers sometimes....they're just trying to prevent bedbugs! :wacko:


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## the_traveler (Feb 13, 2015)

High, high bucket!


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## cirdan (Feb 13, 2015)

fillyjonk said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > WellTrained said:
> ...


I thought that's what the diesel fumes are for


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## PaulM (Feb 13, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> Seriously, life is too short and bedbugs too rare in hotels, cruise ships and trains to worry about them. In 65+ years, traveling in many countries and states, I have never encountered one.


+1

Bedbugs and mold are two things that I don't worry about as a matter of principle.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 13, 2015)

Trainmans daughter said:


> *I woke up with a craving for cinnamon rolls!*


I once bought an air freshener spray labeled "French Toast and Maple Syrup" scent. I think I gained weight during the time I used it.

It had a nice 'maple' scent. Never did smell the French toast.


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## me_little_me (Feb 13, 2015)

cirdan said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > You have to shoot them there because they will charge if wounded.
> ...


Whatever the limit is on the credit card they steal from you. Bedbugs don't only take blood, you know. :giggle:


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## Pete-M3 (Feb 13, 2015)

In 1969 Kalmbach reprinted a book, originally published in 1916, titled "Passenger Terminals and Trains". The author was John A. Droege, General Superintendent, New York of the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad. There was an interesting topic in Chapter XIV, Car-cleaning Plants. In pre-WWI Germany, the railroads carried emigrant groups from interior Europe to northern German ports. One unintended consequence was passenger equipment, infested with vermin, including bed bugs. After experimentation with chemicals alone, which were not entirely satisfactory, they developed the following process:

1. The car to be treated was moved into a large (!) metal cylinder, which was then sealed at both ends

2. The cylinder was heated to 114 to 122 degrees F.

3. Air was evacuated from the cylinder

4. Formalin (whatever that is) was injected into the vacuum.

As a result, the car was de-pested and "disinfected" (the term the book used - probably, strictly speaking, not at an absolute bacterial or viral level). The process was effective because pests (including bed bugs), although they could survive heat or vacuum alone, could not tolerate both. Further, the process penetrated wall spaces and upholstery. The author indicated that the equipment setup cost $18,000 and that it processed one car per day, taking 10 hours and costing $8.33 per car. This was in 1909. They calculated that the alternate method required 10 times more labor with an uncertain outcome.

The term "crude but effective" comes to mind. The investment in equipment, time and labor would rule out such a process today and, maybe even back then, since I have no idea as to whether it was done for any length of time in Germany or elsewhere. One car per day is not very productive.

As for Amtrak and such a process:

1. It would take a really large cylinder for a Superliner car.

2. The sensitive electricals and electronics might not tolerate such a process

3. The process still could not be used to debug software issues in the car systems (heh-heh).


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 13, 2015)

Pete-M3 said:


> 4. Formalin (whatever that is) was injected into the vacuum.


formalin

40% formaldehyde solution; used as a disinfectant and antiseptic at 1:200-1:2000 dilution


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## chakk (Feb 13, 2015)

cirdan said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > You have to shoot them there because they will charge if wounded.
> ...


More importantly, do they accept Visa and Mastercard?


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## Rob Creighton (Feb 14, 2015)

PaulM said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, life is too short and bedbugs too rare in hotels, cruise ships and trains to worry about them. In 65+ years, traveling in many countries and states, I have never encountered one.
> ...


I stay in hotels rather regularly and I tend not to worry about the bed bugs... I'll look and make sure the room is clean and that I don't spot anything on the beds, but I don't let it ruin my life. Mold on the other hand, while I wouldn't say I worry about, will make me leery. I had a bad experience at a hotel where the mold triggered my allergies and gave me a horrible experience. Most frustrating part... my wife and I had attended a wedding in our home town and chose to stay at the hotel in case we enjoyed a few too many libations. We didn't... and I regretted spending money to stay in a moldy room... when we could have just gone home. (Which we ended up doing about 6AM. And promptly went back to bed.)


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## FriskyFL (Feb 14, 2015)

Notify the conductor and they'll be put off the train. Unless they're someone's "emotional support bloodthirsty insects", that is.


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## Phil S (Feb 14, 2015)

Despite "priceless" humor, I note that zero information has been offered in response to the original question: have there been any problems and if so how were they handled? Considering the frequency with which the little darlings crop up in hotels (e.g., 2-3 upper end NY hotels each year), it seems inconceivable that some of them haven't been dragged into a sleeper.I wondered if setting the cars out in a Chicago winter might kill them but the answer is essentially no.

Cheers

Phil


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## Ryan (Feb 14, 2015)

The fact that zero information has been offered should be a clue that it isn't an issue.


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## Phil S (Feb 14, 2015)

Maybe. I hope you're right. But I suspect "no information" means exactly that: no information. IAC, if there is a problem and it's being ignored, then it will get worse. So I agree, let's move on.


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## ehbowen (Feb 15, 2015)

Pete-M3 said:


> In 1969 Kalmbach reprinted a book, originally published in 1916, titled "Passenger Terminals and Trains". The author was John A. Droege, General Superintendent, New York of the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad.


This book is now available (free) on Google Books. It's a fascinating read.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2015)

WellTrained said:


> Maybe. I hope you're right. But I suspect "no information" means exactly that: no information. IAC, if there is a problem and it's being ignored, then it will get worse. So I agree, let's move on.


Huh? I replied to you with information directly in reply to a post you made.

"Yes, they are fumigated at regular scheduled intervals. In addition if bugs or vermin are reported between regular scheduled intervals the car will be shopped and fumigated."

If you mean specifically about bed bugs if anyone, passengers or crew reports they believe there are bed bugs, car shopped, and they have contracters with sniiffer dogs check out the car. If bed bugs are found most definitely specific bed bug action will be taken.

Same if there are blood pathogens. Car shopped and a contracter will be called in to clean them up.


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## Ziv (Feb 15, 2015)

This reminds me of an online debate we had regarding the safety of the Chevy Volt. NHTSA crash tested one in 2010, then left it outside for a couple weeks, it got rained on and a fire started. Chevy was not allowed to de-power the battery as is normal procedure. So every time a Volt hater, and they are legion, wants to trash the Volt they bring up this fire from back in 2010 and say the Volt is a fire trap. Ignoring the hundreds of ICE fires every day.

So we are going back and forth, I mention the 5 star safety record, the Volt hater says he has an article from 2010 that says the Volt is a fire hazard. I note the fact that not one person has ever died in a Volt accident, and his response was, "If I can't find evidence of the problem, it is because it is being covered up."

I don't think most of us are as wrapped around the axle as the Volt hater, but it is hard to give cites to an issue that really isn't an issue.


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## Bus Nut (Feb 16, 2015)

There has been an uptick in bed bug issues in the US in the last ten years. They were reintroduced after being basically eradicated. Before Amtrak was a thing some of the RRs were infamous in consumer circles for having bed bug issues. In fact, there was once a book published about starting letter writing campaigns against corporations (note: this was before twitter) called "Send This Jerk The Bed Bug Letter!" The company sending the bed bug boilerplate was ... a railroad.

The book is on Amazon but Snopes has a different take on the whole thing--and names the Pullman Corporation. And then lists some more recent examples of companies doing the same thing: http://www.snopes.com/business/consumer/bedbug.asp


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