# Metra Nuclear Threat



## MrFSS (Mar 17, 2013)

*(CBS)* — It was stunning for those who watched Thursday night as federal agents investigated a possible nuclear threat at Chicago’s Ogilvie Transportation Center.

CBS 2′s photojournalist Lana Hinshaw-Klann happened to be at the scene and used a cell-phone camera to record agents in action. Reporter Dave Savini looks into what agents were looking for and what they found.

Sources say the agents were members of the elite TSA VIPR team on the 5:04pm Union Pacific West line. They were carrying hand-held nuclear-detection devices that picked up a reading.

*LINK*


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## MikefromCrete (Mar 17, 2013)

So a guy has a stress test and the TSA swarm all over him on his train ride home, his stress levels must have really gone up then. Nice to see our taxes spent in such a wise manner (that's sarcasm).


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## jis (Mar 17, 2013)

They did this to a passenger on the Adirondack at Rouses Point on one of my Adirondack rides. They walk through with a hand held radiation detector. It picked up residual radiation from a Thalium stress test that an elederly gentleman had gone through the previous day. Net net, we got delayed an extra hour while they futzed around trying to figure out what to do. Finally we left with the gentleman in question on board. I don't know what decision making process the CBP folks went through. This was not TSA but CBP operation at Rouses Point. Maybe when they did not find a nuclear device on board they were satisfied.


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## trainman74 (Mar 17, 2013)

I've seen the movie "Source Code," so I know what _really_ happens when there's a nuclear threat on Metra (or Chicago Commuter Rail, or whatever it was called for the film).


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## George Harris (Mar 17, 2013)

jis said:


> They did this to a passenger on the Adirondack at Rouses Point on one of my Adirondack rides. They walk through with a hand held radiation detector. It picked up residual radiation from a Thalium stress test that an elederly gentleman had gone through the previous day. Net net, we got delayed an extra hour while they futzed around trying to figure out what to do. Finally we left with the gentleman in question on board. I don't know what decision makoing process the CBP folks went through. This was not TSA but CBP operation at Rouses Point. Maybe when they did not find a nuclear device on board they were satisfied.


Years ago there were reportedly a couple of cases of people that died in police custody because of diabetic related problems. This strikes me as being equivalent in ignorance or stupidity. Actually, it is inexcusable. A simple statement of what had been done should have been all it took. A minute or two at the most. We are wasting so much time and money playing STUPID security theatre. It is time to quit being chicken little running around saying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!!"


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 17, 2013)

The TSA is the bully. They are poorly trained. they have not caught 1 terrorest. The shoe bomber the underwear bomber all got past the TSA Wonder If I will get harrassed buy the TSA at CUS since I have icehot on my leg. it smells so the dog could be curious and then of course I get the 3rd degree and have to play a game of 1000 questions about why the dog is sniffing my leg for a long time.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 17, 2013)

amtrakwolverine said:


> The TSA is the bully. They are poorly trained. they have not caught 1 terrorest. The shoe bomber the underwear bomber all got past the TSA Wonder If I will get harrassed buy the TSA at CUS since I have icehot on my leg. it smells so the dog could be curious and then of course I get the 3rd degree and have to play a game of 1000 questions about why the dog is sniffing my leg for a long time.


I suspect the dog will turn his nose up and not want to sniff your leg again. ;p


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## PRR 60 (Mar 17, 2013)

amtrakwolverine said:


> The TSA is the bully. They are poorly trained. they have not caught 1 terrorest. The shoe bomber the underwear bomber all got past the TSA Wonder If I will get harrassed buy the TSA at CUS since I have icehot on my leg. it smells so the dog could be curious and then of course I get the 3rd degree and have to play a game of 1000 questions about why the dog is sniffing my leg for a long time.


The shoe bomber and the underware bomber boarded the planes in Europe. Not TSA.


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## John Bredin (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow, can we possibly have a middle position between "whatever the Feds do to protect us is justified" and the head-in-sand "there is no threat, everything TSA or other Feds do is security theater!" Sheer speculation that someone will be arrested because they have Icyhot on their leg?!

There really are terrorists, who've actually attacked the U.S. and targeted trains. 9/11, London, Madrid, Mumbai all really happened. A dirty bomb is a real threat.

Now, the reality of the threat doesn't justify every possible countermeasure. Much of what the TSA does is indeed "security theater". But to have a Pavlovian negative response to everything the TSA or Feds do for security/anti-terrorism is IMHO just as brainless as trusting them to always do the right thing.

Here, radiation was detected in the middle of a metropolis, during rush hour in a busy rail terminal. What should the government/police response be? They investigated, asked questions -- what used to be called good police work -- and then, after receiving a reasonable explanation, walked away with nobody under arrest. Isn't that what law enforcement is supposed to do? Were they not supposed to investigate? Were they supposed to not ask passengers any questions? There has never been a constitutional right to never be asked a question by a cop when he can show reasonable suspicion to suspect a crime is being or has been committed.

Yes, the TSA has done much to "earn" their reputation. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


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## George Harris (Mar 18, 2013)

John Bredin said:


> Here, radiation was detected in the middle of a metropolis, during rush hour in a busy rail terminal. What should the government/police response be? They investigated, asked questions -- what used to be called good police work -- and then, after receiving a reasonable explanation, walked away with nobody under arrest. Isn't that what law enforcement is supposed to do? Were they not supposed to investigate? Were they supposed to not ask passengers any questions? There has never been a constitutional right to never be asked a question by a cop when he can show reasonable suspicion to suspect a crime is being or has been committed.


Maybe you need to go back up and read what JIS said:



> They walk through with a hand held radiation detector. It picked up residual radiation from a Thalium stress test that an elederly gentleman had gone through the previous day. Net net, we got delayed an extra hour while they futzed around trying to figure out what to do. Finally we left with the gentleman in question on board.


The point is, it should not have taken *an extra hour *to figure out what to do. Even the Keystone kops were better than that. Five minutes at most should have been suffieicent. To take an hour is an indication of ineptitude, ignorance, a bully mentality, or all of the above.


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## Trogdor (Mar 18, 2013)

John Bredin said:


> A dirty bomb is a real threat.


Not any moreso than a regular bomb. From what I've read, if someone were to detonate a so-called "dirty bomb," the only real threat to people would be the explosion itself. The radiation would only be poisonous if it wasn't cleaned up, and the people exposed to it didn't move...for an entire year.

Otherwise, it's just a bunch of BS to scare people.


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## John Bredin (Mar 18, 2013)

George Harris said:


> John Bredin said:
> 
> 
> > Here, radiation was detected in the middle of a metropolis, during rush hour in a busy rail terminal. What should the government/police response be? They investigated, asked questions -- what used to be called good police work -- and then, after receiving a reasonable explanation, walked away with nobody under arrest. Isn't that what law enforcement is supposed to do? Were they not supposed to investigate? Were they supposed to not ask passengers any questions? There has never been a constitutional right to never be asked a question by a cop when he can show reasonable suspicion to suspect a crime is being or has been committed.
> ...


My post was referring to the Chicago incident in the OP. Jis's incident was in Rouses Point, which nobody would mistake for a metropolis.
Turning to the Rouses Point incident, I'd want to know more before presuming incompetence or bullying. As I remember constitutional law, a cop with a reasonable articulable suspicion who is given an explanation is within his power to take reasonable steps to check out the explanation rather than accepting it on faith. The Chicago man was able to show he'd had a stress test earlier that day, but maybe it was harder to check out the Adirondack passenger's story. I don't blindly accept every story told by a Fed or cop, but I don't either take the attitude that some do that elderly or other apparently "respectable" people are so obviously beyond suspicion that only the incompetent or fascist ever suspect them.


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## jis (Mar 19, 2013)

At Rouses Point there was no bullying. That is one of CBP's jobs and they were doing it quite professionally I might add. They were genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of what was going on. It being a Sunday it took them a while to verify, is I think what happened. They apparently called the facility where the procedure was carried out and were satisfied. They never treated anyone poorly throughout the process AFAICT.


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## benjibear (Mar 19, 2013)

So a terrorist can go get a stress test and then take a nuclear device onto a train or airplane.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 19, 2013)

Can't even go and a get a check up without being singled out as being a potental terrorest.


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## NW cannonball (Mar 23, 2013)

George Harris said:


> John Bredin said:
> 
> 
> > Here, radiation was detected in the middle of a metropolis, during rush hour in a busy rail terminal. What should the government/police response be? They investigated, asked questions -- what used to be called good police work -- and then, after receiving a reasonable explanation, walked away with nobody under arrest. Isn't that what law enforcement is supposed to do? Were they not supposed to investigate? Were they supposed to not ask passengers any questions? There has never been a constitutional right to never be asked a question by a cop when he can show reasonable suspicion to suspect a crime is being or has been committed.
> ...


But, unfortunately, that is the state of (un)preparedness that our supposed "defenders" are at.

Me, I don't mind a readiness drill - but even in the NAVY - the GQ practice runs always start with "This is a drill -this is a drill -- blah-bl;ah - etc -- "

When (or if) the "This is *NOT A DRILL" *ever happens - LE , citizens, whoever -- none of us will have a clue.

Consider the 2-year-ago disaster response in Japan -- who are as prepared as any society can be - what with the earthquakes, volcanoes, nuclear bombs --

"Only" a few 10-thousands died. The Nuke-plant thing was totally minor compared to the tsunami.

If ever a disaster happens here in the USA - like NO a few years back -- all the preparation will pay off somewhat - but there is no way to total security.

Keep on riding trains and planes and whatever -- remember the 100-year-ago analysis from Sam Clemens http://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187102d.html


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## me_little_me (Mar 23, 2013)

NW cannonball said:


> Keep on riding trains and planes and whatever -- remember the 100-year-ago analysis from Sam Clemens http://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187102d.html


That's why I established residency in another state. I read that most accidents occur within 25 miles of home so I live more than 25 miles from my house to be safe.


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## DET63 (Apr 7, 2013)

What would a radiation detector do if it went by the_traveler?


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