# Question about cross-country train trip



## Kevinx244974 (Dec 8, 2021)

Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.

I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.

I want to get the best experience with both the most beautiful and the most diverse landscapes and cities, so I'm questionning myself about 2 options :

1) take the Coast Starlight to LA and enjoy the border of the Pacific Ocean, visit LA and then, take the Southwest Chief train to come back to Chicago (I heard that this trip isn't the best for the view but to my french point of view, it seem the most "american" landscape with desert, red rocks and country side landscapes)

2) take the Coast Starlight from San Francisco to Seattle (I rode that the view to North bounder is the best), and then take the Empire Builder to come back to Chicago (maybe stop to Whitefish to visit one day the Glacier National Park?) but I will loose the desert landscape (maybe the California Zephyr is enough ?).

What could you recommend ? Thank you by advance !


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## pennyk (Dec 8, 2021)

Welcome to Amtrak Unlimited!

My first cross country trip in 2010, I took the Cardinal, then California Zephyr to Denver then on to Sacramento. From there, I took the Coast Starlight to Seattle and spent a couple of days. Then I took the Empire Builder to West Glacier and spent a day in Glacier National Park and then back to Chicago. (In 2019, I took a similar route, but Capitol Limited instead of Cardinal and without the stops in Denver and West Glacier and only one night in Seattle.)

I chose that route in 2010 because I had not yet visited Seattle and wanted to do so. I chose the Cardinal because I had heard the scenery was great and I had already traveled on the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited. I recently traveled on the Cardinal and was disappointed. The Lake Shore Limited, in my opinion, is a nicer train. The Cardinal only has one sleeper and sells out very quickly and does not have a dedicated dining car. 

When I traveled in 2010, I made my reservations 11 months in advance because I wanted to make sure I could get the accommodations I wanted (late summer). Trains get fairly full during the summer months and the rooms can be fairly expensive.

Either route, in my opinion is a great one, but I prefer the Empire Builder.

Enjoy your trip.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 8, 2021)

Thank you a lot for sharing your experience !

11 months in advance ? I should maybe but with covid I always feel this kind of insecurity to pay in advance..

What I readed is that Cardinal is more scenic than Lake Shore Limited but taking into account the whole experience, the LSL is probably the best.

The option 1 remind me what's typically is american countryside, we don't have this kind of landscapes in France, that's why I think I'm still curious about Southwest Chief, even if California Zephyr give for a part this atmosphere I'm scared to not enough enjoy it, probably I'm wrong ahahah.

The option 2 seem clearly the best, I readed that from Portland it seem give the best view to the east bounder (with the Columbia river) but doing that way I will loose Seattle. 

Then I'm divided between the option 1, probably not the most scenic but represent what's for me the typical american countryside and most unique landscapes states with the view to the Ocean from coast Starlight and the option 2 probably most scenic, memorable I think, but landscapes looks more to what I could find in France (fir forests, mountains, rivers).


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 8, 2021)

I agree that Southwest Chief would be a good choice for someone coming from France as the landscape is vastly different (based on my assumption of what the landscape is in France as I've never been across the pond  ). I live on the east coast between Washington DC and New York City - aka lots of trees. I've taken the Southwest Chief twice now, once in each direction, and am glad I did for the same reason you want to - to see landscape I've not seen before in person.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 8, 2021)

Oh thank you for your answer, did you enjoy the crossing? Did you stop ?


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 8, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Oh thank you for your answer, did you enjoy the crossing? Did you stop ?


I did enjoy the trip both ways. I did not make any intermediate stops on those trips.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 8, 2021)

You said spring/summer. 

I rode the Cardinal in the spring=lots of fog and clouds. 

The Empire Builder crosses the Rockies at night. 

If you want to visit Seattle or Portland-- ok, but I took the Coast Starlight all the way to Vancouver BC then back south to San Francisco bay (actually I choose Davis as my transition point) so I could take the California Zepher back east. 

I choose to travel west on the Southest chief to LA because if you travel the other direction you are forced to stay overnight in Southern California layover. 

So:
Washington - CHI : Lakeshore

CHI - LA. :SW Chief

LA - SEA : Coast Starlight > Davis, CA

Davis - Chi California Zepher.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 8, 2021)

Thank you both of you !

Is the California Zepher view back east the same as west ? 

That's what I'm currently thinking as trip :

Arriving NYC ==> Chicago by Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited ==> California Zepher : Denver ==> Salt Lake City ==> San Francisco ==> Coast Starlight : Los Angeles ==> Southwest Chief : Chicago.

Or :
Arriving NYC ==> Chicago by Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited ==> California Zepher : Denver ==> Salt Lake City ==> San Francisco ==> Coast Starlight : Seattle or Portland ==> Empire Builder : Whitefish ==> Chicago.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 8, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Is the California Zepher view back east the same as west ?


The route is the same but time of day is different. Unfortunately sometimes the times change because of delays.

SW Chief scenery is not as special as California Zepher but I would guess as good or better than Empire Builder. 

It has some great potential stops, such as Dodge City, Albuquerque, and Grand Canyon (from either Flagstaff or Williams). The views through New Mexico are nice, especially between Raton and Albuquerque.


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## fdaley (Dec 8, 2021)

Welcome. Here are my two cents:

-- East of Chicago, the Cardinal does have some lovely scenery in Virginia and West Virginia, but it's a much longer trip than the Lake Shore. And the Lake Shore also has some great scenery, starting with the 140-mile ride along the Hudson River from New York to Albany. In the spring or summer when the days are longer, you'd also get to see some of the Mohawk River valley, which it follows for about 75 miles west of Schenectady. The Lake Shore also has more sleeping car capacity. Neither train has real dining service at this point (instead there are prepackaged entrees reheated and served in their freezer tubs), so a shorter ride with fewer meal periods might be desirable. Both trains arrive in Chicago about the same time. The Lake Shore leaves New York the previous afternoon at 3:40 p.m., while the Cardinal requires leaving the previous morning before 7 a.m. Plus the Lake Shore runs every day (the Cardinal departs only three days per week), so it offers more options for connections to the west.

-- West of Chicago. For spectacular scenery alone, the Zephyr westbound and the Empire Builder eastbound is the way to go. The northbound Coast Starlight from California also makes a great scenic run through the Cascades of Oregon (much of which is covered in darkness southbound). The Empire Builder's trip through the Rockies is much shorter than the Zephyr's and is more reliably seen eastbound than westbound, when it's often covered in darkness.

That said, the Southwest Chief does offer some great mountain railroading, particularly around the Glorieta pass in northern New Mexico and the Raton pass from NM to Colorado. And it does take you through that classic, dusty southwestern American desert landscape, so I can see why you might want to take it. It's not take-your-breath-away scenery like the Zephyr's, but there's plenty to see on the Chief route.


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## lordsigma (Dec 8, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.
> 
> I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.
> 
> ...


I essentially did option 1 this past June (Lake Shore Springfield - Chicago) - a really great trip. But they say option 2 is great too.


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## BCL (Dec 8, 2021)

Not sure if you're aware that the California Zephyr doesn't actually go to San Francisco. The endpoint is is actually in Emeryville, which is located between Berkeley and Oakland. If your goal is to visit San Francisco, Amtrak provides a coordinated bus service. And "service" is kind of a generous term these days as there used to be multiple stops in San Francisco (now just one) as well as checked-in baggage service to one stop.


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## pennyk (Dec 8, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> 11 months in advance ? I should maybe but with covid I always feel this kind of insecurity to pay in advance..
> 
> What I readed is that Cardinal is more scenic than Lake Shore Limited but taking into account the whole experience, the LSL is probably the best.



I booked 11 months in advance for my 2010 trip. I had the time available and used the "expertise" of Amtrak Unlimited members to help me plan that trip. I really wanted to take the Cardinal in bedroom B and I knew that it sold out fairly quickly, so I planned way in advance. Also, I believe, at that time, prices were less 11 months in advance.

Although I think the Lake Shore Limited is very scenic, I believe the Cardinal may be more scenic in places. However, I think the Lake Shore Limited overall is a better ride. I plan to take the Lake Shore Limited on my next cross country trip.

I believe the scenery on the California Zephyr is better going westbound and the scenery on the Empire Builder is better going eastbound.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 8, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> The route is the same but time of day is different. Unfortunately sometimes the times change because of delays.
> 
> SW Chief scenery is not as special as California Zepher but I would guess as good or better than Empire Builder.
> 
> It has some great potential stops, such as Dodge City, Albuquerque, and Grand Canyon (from either Flagstaff or *Williams*). The views through New Mexico are nice, especially between Raton and Albuquerque.


Amtrak no longer stops at Williams. You have to go to Flagstaff then take a connection bus.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 8, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Amtrak no longer stops at Williams. You have to go to Flagstaff then take a connection bus.


That SUCKS!! 

Flagstaff is a nice town, and the station is well located near some good restaurants and hotels. 

There's no steam train to the Grand Canyon (like Williams) but there are shuttles and tours from Flagstaff.


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## jis (Dec 8, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> There's no steam train to the Grand Canyon (like Williams) but there are shuttles and tours from Flagstaff.


Apparently there is a shuttle that runs from Flagstaff Amtrak Station to Williams Grand Canyon Hotel four times a day and cost $24. I suppose one would take that to get to the Williams to Grand Canyon train.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 8, 2021)

If you ask me seeing the Grand Canyon is a good reason to take the Chief. A person could overnight in Flagstaff, see the Canyon and continue on the Chief the next day.


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## Saddleshoes (Dec 8, 2021)

Kevin
1) Let me welcome you to the USA first.
2) Everybody here has great ideas. No matter what you do you will have a great trip!
3) I would like to suggest getting off the train in some of the small towns to get a feel for non-urban America. You may like it.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Dec 8, 2021)

A total aside here, but there are actually parts of southern France that look surprisingly like the American west and southwest (more populated and wetter, but still surprisingly similar). I think the pure, sheer vastness of North America is what will impress. 

That said, also consider the Zephyr and stopping in Grand Junction and renting a car to see the Colorado National Monument, the National Parks around Moab (Arches, Canyonlands) and the other parks in Southern Utah - which could be combined with Grand Canyon, perhaps coming north from Flagstaff to Grand Junction or SLC (Salt Lake City)? 

Of course, what American's consider "typical" would probably be the farmland of the Midwest or whatever region they are from...


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 8, 2021)

It's kind of a challenge to traverse the 'big ditch' area North to South and would be quite a distance. Are you suggesting a one way rental and traveling part way on the Chief, part way on the Zepher?

I just completed a drive through Colorado past Moab and to Jacobs Lake, a town portal to the North rim of the Grand Canyon, in my CX5. Back to Grand Junction via St. George on the Interstate s) totaled over 1000 miles.

There is amazing scenery along the way. I stopped near Mexican Hat. Excellent dark skies there for stargazing and photography.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Dec 8, 2021)

Ha! Mexican Hat - ate hamburgers there in like 1980 or 81 when my Dad and I (and a colleague from Germany) hiked the canyon (up into snow on the South Rim, in fact, but that's another story) and were on our way back to the Midwest via Grand Junction. 

Yes, that was my suggestion - drive from Flagstaff to the north.


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## niemi24s (Dec 8, 2021)

One way to get a fairly good overhead view of the scenery along any Amtrak route is to log onto... https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/ ..., delete all but Passenger Rail in the Layers tab and then select Imagery in the Base Maps tab. It's the best way I know of to "see for yourself" without relying on opinions of others.

Some here downplay the scenery along the route of the Empire Builder, but I think the squillions of hectares of wheat fields in Montana show why it's often called "Big Sky Country" on their license plates. But then I'm the kind of person who likes most anything seen through a train window because I get to do it so infrequently.


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## uncleboots (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.
> 
> I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.
> 
> ...


The Southwest Chief is one of my favorite trains, the views are good. If the views weren’t good, I wouldn’t have taken it 18 times.You won’t be disappointed if that’s part of your trip


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## BarbW (Dec 9, 2021)

I highly recommend the Cardinal. The views through the New River Gorge and under the bridge are not to be missed. I also recommend the Portland end of the Empire Builder (often called the Baby Builder). You can immediately take your dinner to the lounge car and enjoy your evening traveling through the Columbia River Gorge, right on the river's edge.


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 9, 2021)

Just the other day I sketched out my dream trip from Boston. I’ve always wanted to try Canada’s Vis Rail.(more costly than Amtrak)

The LSL to the EB and then .... explore Canaala using ViaRail - Vancouver to Banff (very beautiful) then fly the mountains to Seattle and pick up Amtrak to San Francisco then the CZ to Chi

Take the LSL to Buffalo NY and take a ViaRail to Halifax.Nova Scotia - a section of this route is “the Ocean”

Parts of Canada French Canadian and isre not 109% compatible with the French language.


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## caravanman (Dec 9, 2021)

You will see a great and diverse range of scenery on the Zephyr between Chicago and California. My favourite route. The LSL is also my choice from New York to Chicago.
Because America is such a large place, there is a big range of different scenery. Most of us get our ideas of what to expect from the movies, but there is much more diversity there.
For the return trip, either the Southwest Chief, or the Sunset Limited to New Orleans, and the Crescent to New York. (You can travel from New Orleans up to Chicago if flying home from Chicago, on the CONO.)


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 9, 2021)

Thank to all of you for your answers  !!

I'm questioning myself for those of you who did so much hours of train (in my case : Cardinal/Lake shore limited + California Zephyr + Coast Starligh + Empire Builder) in one time, isn't it hard for one travel ?

I mean, I really like train travel but I'm not use to do so much hours in France so, I'm questinning myself if it's better to focus on doing the most of America by train or balance the most with cities ? How do you feel doing so much hours of transport ? Thank you for all again !


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank to all of you for your answers  !!
> 
> I'm questioning myself for those of you who did so much hours of train (in my case : Cardinal/Lake shore limited + California Zephyr + Coast Starligh + Empire Builder) in one time, isn't it hard for one travel ?
> 
> I mean, I really like train travel but I'm not use to do so much hours in France so, I'm questinning myself if it's better to focus on doing the most of America by train or balance the most with cities ? How do you feel doing so much hours of transport ? Thank you for all again !



Will come back later on detail but would mention that if you want the american experience Amtrak trains are unbeatable. 

I'm also living in France (part time for 20 years) where we have the option to visit 3 mountain regions within your own country so only one mountain train in the US would be enough for a first trip. Californian Zephyr or Empire builder? has to be the Zephyr as a first trip. 

Again as a non American the journey from Chicago across the mid-west plains to Denver is very american, then 2 mountain ranges before you get to San Francisco is a big slice of America in one journey. 

Got to go now but I will add to this later.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 9, 2021)

v v said:


> Will come back later on detail but would mention that if you want the american experience Amtrak trains are unbeatable.
> 
> I'm also living in France (part time for 20 years) where we have the option to visit 3 mountain regions within your own country so only one mountain train in the US would be enough for a first trip. Californian Zephyr or Empire builder? has to be the Zephyr as a first trip.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your answer, you probably right I should maybe focus on California Zephyr (with a train coming from NYC to travel coast to coast), it's already enough for a first trip and I could do a second depending of my experience .

At least, Los Angeles isn't far from San Francisco, maybe with the Coast Starlight I could finish the travel with this road on train including the Pacific view .


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank to all of you for your answers  !!
> 
> How do you feel doing so much hours of transport ? Thank you for all again !




Many probably deserve a medal or citation.

Americans are used to this kind of hard work ( sitting for hours).

The big problem is the food. You have to get off the train at opportunities to get food. If you don't get back on the train you might have to wait 24 hours to catch another one.

The only other option is eating what's known as 'train food', which is 'different' than real food. 

My first big Amtrak trip was over 1100 miles. The section you are planning I did 
CHI LA
LA SEA
SEA SFC
SFC CHI

Traveling both directions on the Coast Starlight showed me things that were hidden by darkness one direction. 

Later I did the California Zepher in bith directions to see more. 

You need to plan ahead if you want to stop for a 24hr break, probably in some smaller place in between big cities, unless you want to visit the big city.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

Hello! Trip planning is so much fun. You are getting some great advice already. I can add a few things, as I've taken these routes: The Chief westbound in 1985 to Lamy (Santa Fe) and 2019 to Flagstaff, the Chief eastbound 2019, the Empire Builder Westbound to Seattle 2017, the Zephyr eastbound from Sacramento to Chi, Lake Shore Limited both ways from Worcester MA, and _ just last week December 2021 _the Cardinal both ways Washington DC to Maysville KY.

I do recommend the Cardinal despite (or because of?) the extra distance, but this time of year it has to be Eastbound or you may not see any of the New River Gorge at all, as days are so short. Our Eastbound trip was spectacular - saw the best of the Gorge starting around 9 AM when the sun is finally getting above the mountainsides! Keep in mind if you go after the leaves are on the trees, some views on the Eastern routes are simply blocked. Ideally for the Cardinal, wait till early April, when days are longer than now, but trees haven't leafed out. Sounds like you are going later than that, and the leaf issue isn't a major factor in the West. You could also consider the Capitol Limited from DC to Chicago - I have not taken it but it is shorter, has some good scenery, and uses Superliner cars (double deckers). It goes through Harpers Ferry West Virginia, one of the most wonderful river confluence gaps in the country, and a National Historical Park town that is worth a day or two to explore. Very American history!

We loved all the long Western routes equally. Spending time in the Sightseer Lounge is essential. Hope they still allow that. On the Chief, if it's on time or early, you have an hour to wander around the city of Albuquerque a bit. Same for Minot ND on the Empire Builder. On our recent Chief trip, we stayed in Flagstaff in an airbnb for the night and rented a car to drive up to the Grand Canyon, where we stayed overnight at a cabin on the edge. Less expensive with shared bathrooms. Fabulous to get up super early and beat the crowds to the view. Not that crowded on a Sunday night in late October anyway.

All the routes are bumpy compared to the smooth TGV we took in France in the 1980s. We don't get much sleep in our American sleeper cars, but that memory fades and we only have good memories of scenery and conversations with strangers. Have a great time!

PS You're likely to have several hours in Chicago. Stash your bags at the sleeper lounge and walk over to Millennium Park. In 1985 (before the Park was built) we realized we were there on the Cubs' Opening Day and had six hours. We took the El train up to Wrigley Field, got "standing room only" tickets, and watched a few innings before we had to get back to catch the Southwest Chief. SO MUCH FUN. Another cool baseball feature was being able to see into Coors Field right from the Denver platform at night. That reminds me, be ready for altitude changes – Denver is a mile high and Flagstaff 7000 feet. But, it's less of a shock on a train than flying in.


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## jis (Dec 9, 2021)

Technically speaking, the Empire Builder gives you two mountain ranges - Cascades and Rockies. Well, the Portland section crosses the Cascades through the Columbia Gorge, the Seattle section does so under Stevens Pass in a tunnel. The California Zephyr gives you three - Rockies, Wasatch and Sierra Nevada. All in all the California Zephyr IMHO is more spectacular


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank to all of you for your answers  !!
> 
> I'm questioning myself for those of you who did so much hours of train (in my case : Cardinal/Lake shore limited + California Zephyr + Coast Starligh + Empire Builder) in one time, isn't it hard for one travel ?
> 
> I mean, I really like train travel but I'm not use to do so much hours in France so, I'm questinning myself if it's better to focus on doing the most of America by train or balance the most with cities ? How do you feel doing so much hours of transport ? Thank you for all again !



If you have at least two nights in a town or city between legs on the train, you will be able to catch up on the sleep deprivation and take walks. We did not suffer from the Amtrak food last week, there was plenty of it, not great, but filling. (Assuming you are traveling by roomette or bedroom, with meals included.) We brought along some instant camp food and an electric mini kettle, but did not use them. But, you should bring trail mix or energy bars at least, and some wine in case the cafe car is closed at the crucial time! If you want to reduce the train time, you could fly to Chicago, but we did that once and wished we'd done the whole thing by train. Recently a friend took the Empire Builder to Glacier National Park and the train stops right at the Lodge, so that's a place you could get off and take a hike or tour, and sleep over.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 9, 2021)

__





Stretch/Smoke Stop List


Blue Water/Wolverine: Battle Creek, MI* California Zephyr: Sacramento, CA Reno, NV Winnemucca, NV Salt Lake City, UT Grand Junction, CO Glenwood Springs, CO Fraser-Winter Park, CO Denver, CO Omaha, NE Ottumwa, IA Galesburg, IL Capitol Limited: Toledo, OH Cleveland, OH...




www.amtraktrains.com









__





Chicago to Emeryville on Zephyr


Traveling soon, any recent experiences? Will be in bedroom. Wondering about meals, masks, etc.




www.amtraktrains.com


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## Skimmy (Dec 9, 2021)

Suggest you look up Amtrak “day/night “ map so you can see (no pun intended) if the “good” viewing will be the optimum. For example north bound coast starlight had more daylight (for my itinerary) than south bound. I did a similar western section trip in July. My highlights: Denver-salt lake, Portland-pasco(running along the Columbia River was neat). Because of big forest fires, the overnight bus from Sacramento to Klamath falls at midnight- 7AM ruined the north bound starlight experience.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 9, 2021)

Thank you all again ! I'm wondering: do you know some guide books or something to get information about the places traveled during the trip ?


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 9, 2021)

As far as a long trip, after an 84 hour, for me in Coach - the seats are very comfortable I was ready for more. My plan is someday to at least double that mileage by taking a what I’m calling a North American Grand Tour - 

Amtrak offers bus service many places. The train and bus have coordinated schedules - but might have a long overlay. The SWC would bring you to an Amtrak bus in Flagstaff Arizona’s to the Grand Canyon, AZ. However renting a car (plan ahead). would be easier plus you could drive on the fabled Route 66 [my favorite video [.https://youtu.be/AwPV3qJegEE]. For a few stops - maybe more / the SWC follows Route 66.

Any city has culture and museum - San Francisco is my favorite. Washington DC has 18 Smithsonian musrums that are free. 

Nova Scotia might be a fun ending - rent a car and drive and “de-compress” to a European feel through German, French, Scottish, Indigenous and English villages all in a few hours. It’s then possible to fly out if Halifax.


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## jis (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all again ! I'm wondering: do you know some guide books or something to get information about the places traveled during the trip ?


Though not exactly what you are asking for, you might find this site a good starting point to hunt down the stuff you are looking for:









Routes


View the list of Amtrak routes to explore major stops, schedules and attractions.




amtrakguide.com





Happy travels!


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 9, 2021)

jis said:


> Though not exactly what you are asking for, you might find this site a good starting point to hunt down the stuff you are looking for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you ! I mean if I'm close to a natural view I would like to know what is it, or information about the city or state I'm currently passing.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you ! I mean if I'm close to a natural view I would like to know what is it, or information about the city or state I'm currently passing.



Some like to take an automotive type GPS ( Garmin, Magellan) to show progress.

Maybe pick up an atlas or road map.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 9, 2021)

Thank you I will search for that, by the way, I readed that the USA Rail Pass was available for 15 days but now is only for 30 days or I didn't understand well?


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 9, 2021)

Last spring they had a big sale on the Passes. I forget exactly but I think it might have been half price, so you could buy two.


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you for your answer, you probably right I should maybe focus on California Zephyr (with a train coming from NYC to travel coast to coast), it's already enough for a first trip and I could do a second depending of my experience .
> 
> At least, Los Angeles isn't far from San Francisco, maybe with the Coast Starlight I could finish the travel with this road on train including the Pacific view .



Two general points and a personal recommendation.

Travelling on Amtrak long distance (LD) trains is very relaxing if in sleeper and if end to end.
Travelling coach is or can be a lot of fun and extremely comfortable compared to European trains, but you are 24 hours a day with quite a few other people. We try to travel coach from time to time to remind us there are 2 Amtraks, and to meet a real mix of people.
Sleeper is whatever you want it to be, private and comfortable (roomette) or private and all the facilities (bedroom). We tend to travel roomette as the costs are a lot lower than bedroom which means we can afford to travel further for longer.

Travelling end to end means you don't leave any LD train for between 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 days depending on route. The pace of the trains, being fed 3 times per day, being able to lay flat to sleep and the motion of the train make it a non tiring journey.
It's also possible by travelling end to end to visit the cities you start and finish at, plus quite easy to visit places near to these rail terminals.

Understandably wanting to visit places along the way allows you to get to know the country better (although in my view you will learn more about America from meeting and eating with Americans on board an Amtrak train), but stopping along the way can be hard on the body. If you will stop along the way I would whatever your route fly into New York City (fabulous if you haven't been there, just like you see on tv), and fly back from Los Angeles (more to that place than meets the eye, or guide book).

If you want to see a very diverse America in one journey it would have to be end to end Amtrak, my choice for the first time would be this:

NYC (NYP) to Chicago (CHI) with the Lakeshore ~> CHI to San Francisco (SFC) with the Zephyr ~> SFC to Los Angeles (LAX) using either the Coast Starlight or an Amtrak bus to San Luis Obispo (SLO) then the Pacific Surfliner to LAX (have to admit this is my favourite journey in the US so I am biased towards this, it has such a diverse view of California and often directly on the Californian coast).

In LAX you can make a side trip to San Diego by Surfliner, excellent if you have the time.

LAX ~> New Orleans (NOL) on the Sunset Limited (past some of the best of the deserts of SW America, at times directly next to the Mexican border just a few metres away, then across southern Texas, through Louisiana to NOL where you will feel at home) NOL ~> Washington DC (WAS) on the Crescent (through eastern America which is different again). Washington is one of the truly great world cities with so much to visit and see. Fly back from WAS.

If you do all this and pace yourself by staying a few days at the cities you arrive at it should not be stressful for you. But you will have seen quite a few of the many types of America although you will hardly have scratched the surface.

This is a personal opinion, there are many many kind and helpful people on this forum with great knowledge who will offer opinions which are all worth listening to. Only you know what you need from such an eye opening journey, but be careful, travelling America becomes addictive!


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## HammerJack (Dec 9, 2021)

Do the Cardinal! It's a cool little train that has a little bit of everything! A high speed sprint down the Northeast Corridor, rough rails on a short line, mountain railroading through a river gorge, and cutting through the farmlands in the Midwest. It's a great ride.


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 9, 2021)

The California Railway Museum - hoping for donations, but not at all necessarily - offers a narrator aboard the CZ from Sacramento CA (where the Museum is located) to Reno NV. Not every train. It’s about once a week. I think the narrator stays over in Reno NV and narrates the return trip. In my case the narrator used the microphone in the cafe/observation car where I stayed the whole time.

It’s worth checking wit the museum to see if a narrator is scheduled.

Lots of Gold Rush stuff ...history galore! B Sierra Nevada Mountains.


Other routes:
On occasion the Amtrak staff makes brief announcements but for the most part your mobile device helps with Google/maps. But for some of the trip. There is no connectivity.


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## BCL (Dec 9, 2021)

I did notice that the original poster didn't specifically say anything about choosing a sleeper or coach seat. I would note that Amtrak coach seats are very large and it's generally easier to sleep in them compared to typical coach/economy airline seats. But then again meals are still included with sleeper accommodations, so that might be a consideration.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

BCL said:


> I did notice that the original poster didn't specifically say anything about choosing a sleeper or coach seat. I would note that Amtrak coach seats are very large and it's generally easier to sleep in them compared to typical coach/economy airline seats. But then again meals are still included with sleeper accommodations, so that might be a consideration.



Agreed, Amtrak coach seats are very comfortable. But I don't get how another poster in this thread was able to meet more people in coach as compared to sleeper. Nearly all the great encounters and conversations we had were because we were seated with strangers in the dining car, or by sitting in booths in the Sightseer lounges (SSL) or cafe cars. I've ridden coach (mostly less than 6-hr trips, granted) for 50 years and can barely recall any decent conversations in coach - people are usually reading or working or sleeping, or now with Covid, they don't even seat you with a stranger. Seek out the booths!!


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## jis (Dec 9, 2021)

In my student days when I exclusively traveled by Coach if and when I could afford Amtrak and treat me to an upgrade from Greyhound, I did meet a lot of people in Coach, Lounges and even Diners. Back then there was no special treatment of Sleeper passengers in Diners. Everyone had to buy the food that they ate. And there were no Smartphones to bury ones nose in, and no earbuds to shut the world around you out.

I have no idea what the situation is now since I travel mostly by Sleeper and seldom meet too many interesting people even in the Diner. Everyone is busy tinkering with their phones these days it seems


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

jis said:


> In my student days when I exclusively traveled by Coach if and when I could afford Amtrak and treat me to an upgrade from Greyhound, I did meet a lot of people in Coach, Lounges and even Diners. Back then there was no special treatment of Sleeper passengers in Diners. Everyone had to buy the food that they ate. And there were no Smartphones to bury ones nose in, and no earbuds to shut the world around you out.
> 
> I have no idea what the situation is now since I travel mostly by Sleeper and seldom meet too many interesting people even in the Diner. Everyone is busy tinkering with their phones these days it seems



Agreed on the phones. 
If you travel as a couple and sit together in coach, then the only way you meet people is in cars other than the coach. In the diner they used to seat couples on one side of the booth and make strangers sit across from you. You have to talk. It's awesome. Same in the SSL, since there aren't enough booths for everyone, you have to let strangers sit with you. Oh the stories!! Whenever I think about train journeys bringing four of us who already know each other, I think, Nah.
I am heartbroken that Covid is messing with this amazing social dynamic.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 9, 2021)

jis said:


> In my student days when I exclusively traveled by Coach if and when I could afford Amtrak and treat me to an upgrade from Greyhound, I did meet a lot of people in Coach, Lounges and even Diners. Back then there was no special treatment of Sleeper passengers in Diners. Everyone had to buy the food that they ate. And there were no Smartphones to bury ones nose in, and no earbuds to shut the world around you out.
> 
> I have no idea what the situation is now since I travel mostly by Sleeper and seldom meet too many interesting people even in the Diner. Everyone is busy tinkering with their phones these days it seems


Did you say something, Jis?


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Agreed, Amtrak coach seats are very comfortable. But I don't get how another poster in this thread was able to meet more people in coach as compared to sleeper. Nearly all the great encounters and conversations we had were because we were seated with strangers in the dining car, or by sitting in booths in the Sightseer lounges (SSL) or cafe cars. I've ridden coach (mostly less than 6-hr trips, granted) for 50 years and can barely recall any decent conversations in coach - people are usually reading or working or sleeping, or now with Covid, they don't even seat you with a stranger. Seek out the booths!!



I think you misread me. I wrote that you are with quite a few other people 24 hours a day which doesn't indicate we had conversations with the all or even with some. 

I agree that most of the deeper conversations come from being seated with strangers in the diner or sitting in the SSL, but not all. I also think immaterial of the food quality that the diner is the best part of the Amtrak LD train experience. There's nothing else like it having a moving panorama while in good company and seated at a table to eat and drink.

All that said coach travel and sometimes the people are different than in a sleeper, different atmosphere too, but that's not to say you can't strike up a conversation with others.


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## jis (Dec 9, 2021)

v v said:


> All that said coach travel and sometimes the people are different than in a sleeper, different atmosphere too, but that's not to say you can't strike up a conversation with others.


Having had some crazy parties even in Coach back in the days I have to agree with you  Though I would say the Lounge is most suited for such. The Le Pub on the Montrealer or the dimly lit smoke filled Lounge with drinks flowing freely on the Broadway Limited while a musically inclined co-travelers or two strike up their guitar with some cool country music comes to mind. Ah those were the days.

One of the problems these days specially on single level trains is that the darned Lounges, such as they are, are too brightly lit. You could almost get sun burnt there


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

v v said:


> I think you misread me. I wrote that you are with quite a few other people 24 hours a day which doesn't indicate we had conversations with the all or even with some.
> 
> I agree that most of the deeper conversations come from being seated with strangers in the diner or sitting in the SSL, but not all. I also think immaterial of the food quality that the diner is the best part of the Amtrak LD train experience. There's nothing else like it having a moving panorama while in good company and seated at a table to eat and drink.
> 
> All that said coach travel and sometimes the people are different than in a sleeper, different atmosphere too, but that's not to say you can't strike up a conversation with others.



Agreed! Sorry to misread/mischaracterize. (I'm supposed to be working on a book deadline but keep seeing AU alerts, haha, so was rushing through some posts.) The SSL and cafe (unlike the diner at mealtime) would be a total mix and in fact may have more coach people than sleeper people. Of the top five conversations I can recall on LD trains, 2 were in the SSL (SW Chief), 2 in the dining car (SW Chief), and 1 in the cafe car (Cardinal) last week.


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

jis said:


> Having had some crazy parties even in Coach back in the days I have to agree with you  Though I would say the Lounge is most suited for such. The Le Pub on the Montrealer or the dimly lit smoke filled Lounge with drinks flowing freely on the Broadway Limited while a musically inclined co-travelers or two strike up their guitar with some cool country music comes to mind. Ah those were the days



And this is only the stuff you dare mention...


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Agreed! Sorry to misread/mischaracterize. (I'm supposed to be working on a book deadline but keep seeing AU alerts, haha, so was rushing through some posts.) The SSL and cafe (unlike the diner at mealtime) would be a total mix and in fact may have more coach people than sleeper people. *Of the top five conversations I can recall on LD trains, 2 were in the SSL (SW Chief), 2 in the dining car (SW Chief), and 1 in the cafe car (Cardinal) last week.*



Now that's a good thread theme, top conversations had on Amtrak.

Don't work too hard.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 9, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank to all of you for your answers  !!
> 
> I'm questioning myself for those of you who did so much hours of train (in my case : Cardinal/Lake shore limited + California Zephyr + Coast Starligh + Empire Builder) in one time, isn't it hard for one travel ?
> 
> I mean, I really like train travel but I'm not use to do so much hours in France so, I'm questinning myself if it's better to focus on doing the most of America by train or balance the most with cities ? How do you feel doing so much hours of transport ? Thank you for all again !




If you want to ride coach overnight, I think mixing a 24 hour hotel layover after a night on the train would help fight the fatigue.

Fortunately there are many stops with hotels reasonably close, even within walking distance.





Where to Go, What to See


For discussion of destinations. Many of these threads are old and some portions may be out of date.




www.amtraktrains.com


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## jis (Dec 9, 2021)

v v said:


> And this is only the stuff you dare mention...


What happens on trains, stay on trains


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## v v (Dec 9, 2021)

jis said:


> What happens on trains, stay on trains



Now you have piqued my curiosity.


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## BCL (Dec 9, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Agreed, Amtrak coach seats are very comfortable. But I don't get how another poster in this thread was able to meet more people in coach as compared to sleeper. Nearly all the great encounters and conversations we had were because we were seated with strangers in the dining car, or by sitting in booths in the Sightseer lounges (SSL) or cafe cars. I've ridden coach (mostly less than 6-hr trips, granted) for 50 years and can barely recall any decent conversations in coach - people are usually reading or working or sleeping, or now with Covid, they don't even seat you with a stranger. Seek out the booths!!



My first time in an Amtrak dining car I was with my child and we were (likely deliberately) seated for breakfast with a couple with a room. That was rather fun. But another time I was traveling home alone and it was four solo coach passengers for lunch, then four solo coach passengers for breakfast.

It was different than my time in a dining car in Australia. There I remember tablecloths and a server dressed just like a waiter


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 9, 2021)

The best advise I can give you is take the Cardinal Eastbound because that is the only way to guarantee you will get the New River Gorge in Daylight, and it has recently been made a National Park if I remember right. When you go in the spring you should get a bit of the Ohio River Valley on the left hand side, and the Kanawha River as well. Then you enter the gorge truly around Montgomery. The further east you go the more rugged it will get. After Hawks Nest the scenery moves over to the right hand side. In my opinion the rest of the scenery is the best on the right hand side the rest of the way to Charlottesville. 

Make sure you look for the Gordonsville Marine he will be on the left side. I believe he is a retired marine and he meets every single Amtrak that passes his house on his balcony. After the last car passes he will about face and march back inside. 

I really like doing the Lake Shore Limited going to Chicago just because it is faster and easier. 

I personally don't really like the Zephyr I know that's sacrilegious for this group. But I just don't care for it. It is like scenery overload. There is some dessert on it as well depending how early you wake up. I do prefer the Sierras to the Rockies on it. 

The other thing you could do is pop down the Valley with the bus combination to LAX from Sacramento. Then take the Coast Starlight all the way north to Portland.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 9, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> The best advise I can give you is take the Cardinal Eastbound because that is the only way to guarantee you will get the New River Gorge in Daylight, and it has recently been made a National Park if I remember right. When you go in the spring you should get a bit of the Ohio River Valley on the left hand side, and the Kanawha River as well. Then you enter the gorge truly around Montgomery. The further east you go the more rugged it will get. After Hawks Nest the scenery moves over to the right hand side. In my opinion the rest of the scenery is the best on the right hand side the rest of the way to Charlottesville.
> 
> Make sure you look for the Gordonsville Marine he will be on the left side. I believe he is a retired marine and he meets every single Amtrak that passes his house on his balcony. After the last car passes he will about face and march back inside.



Totally bummed we missed this guy last week!
Our eastbound Cardinal did not switch sides near Hawk's Nest as planned, it stayed on the south side of the gorge, so the best view of the bridge was out the left side. We almost missed it because I was waiting for the crossover first. We were in the cafe car the whole time in the Gorge so we could switch window sides regardless.

Another highlight (out the left/north side) are the old trains resting at Culpeper VA, – CORRECTION, Clifton Forge – including the Greenbrier locomotive.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 9, 2021)

For the eastern trains, I'm not sure which one would be tops, in my opinion. If you're going coach, maybe the Capitol Limited would be best, as that's the shorter overnight ride. Other than that, here are my ratings:

Lake Shore Limited: Scenic ride up the Hudson, and, if you get a sleeper, you can hang out in the new Viewliner-2 Diner Lounge. Right now, it's flex food, but the car is very nice. If you go westbound, the 3 PM departure guarantees the view up the Hudson, if you're going eastbound and the train is delayed, you might do that part of the ride in the dark.

Capitol Limited: Nearly all of the scenery crossing the mountains is done in daylight on the eastbound run. If you go westbound, Harpers Ferry will be in daylight, and in the summer, daylight should last up to the crossing of the Alleghenies on the Sand Patch Grade. This train is double decker Superliner equipment. Unfortunately, they're not operating the train with the Sightseer Lounge right now. Hopefully, it will return soon. There is a diner-lounge which provides flex-food dining service for sleeper passengers and cafe food for coach passengers. They let people hang out there, partly, it seems, to compensate for the lack of a Sightseer lounge. I did that on my last trip, and it wasn't too bad.

The Cardinal is the longest and most interesting ride. You get a combination of the Northeast Corridor and the mountain crossing, as well as a ride through the New River Gorge. The eastbound crossing gives you all of the mountain scenery in daylight, and in the summer, it stays light all the way beyond Baltimore (if the train is on time.) During the summer, you get a most of the New River gorge in daylight if the train is running close to schedule. (I once saw a westbound Cardinal pass through the gorge from the overlook at Hawk's nest. This was in August.) The problem with the Cardinal is that the consist is limited -- it usually only has one sleeper, and one Amfleet cafe car that is used as a diner-lounge, with one end reserved for the sleeper passengers, who are served flex food, and the other end for the coach passengers, who have to order off the limited cafe menu. 

I've taken the Cardinal a number of times, and I like the ride, but they really need to upgrade the consist and provide additional lounge space for people to be able to get out of their seats during such a long ride. Of course, all the eastern trains need a food service upgrade, and better-quality food needs to be made available to coach passengers. In summary, I guess if I'm going to ride out to Chicago to connect with a western train, I'd probably take the Capitol Limited, as it's the shortest trip for me timewise, even including the connecting ride to/from Baltimore. My second choice might be a sleeper room on the Lakeshore Limited, as I can hang out in the nice Viewliner 2 diner lounge, plus I can wait out the connection in New York at the new fancy Metropolitan Lounge at the Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station.


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## MARC Rider (Dec 9, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Another highlight (out the left/north side) are the old trains resting at Culpeper VA, including the Greenbrier locomotive.



Not Culpeper, but Clifton Forge.


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 9, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> Totally bummed we missed this guy last week!
> Our eastbound Cardinal did not switch sides near Hawk's Nest as planned, it stayed on the south side of the gorge, so the best view of the bridge was out the left side. We almost missed it because I was waiting for the crossover first. We were in the cafe car the whole time in the Gorge so we could switch window sides regardless.
> 
> Another highlight (out the left/north side) are the old trains resting at Culpeper VA, including the Greenbrier locomotive.



When I was a regular on that route in the springs we would throw him stuff from the vestibule. One time we threw a marine cap. The fun days of open vestibules on the PVs. Generally the Amtrak crew is always in a vestibule with it open to go past him as well. He is an institution.


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## sublib (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.
> 
> I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.
> 
> ...




Please do not hold us against ourselves.
We are what we are.
And Amtrak is representative of us.

Take your trip, any route, and enjoy it.
Please be open to dysfunction.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 10, 2021)

Thank you all again I'm noting all information aside ! I would like to ask you, if you were an international traveller, which is the most scenic in train from San Francisco :

- Coast Starlight by the Pacific coast to LA and visiting LA before to go home.

- Coast Starlight to Portland, visiting Portland and then Empire Builder to Chicago (maybe stoping à East Glacier?).

I think that the Californian coast and LA are very americans but in the same time the train advantage is to give you the opportunity to see the country inland that not everybody could see in other way, so maybe Empire Builder passing by Montana is something more special ? What's your opinion ?

I will not use a car


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 10, 2021)

If you understand the Amtrak Rail Pass ignore this. The one important thing is although the rail pass is coach seating you can request a sleeper for part of a day the conductor can sell you the ticket.

The normal railpass had three tier pricing but the sale price was 10 segment 30 day for .$299 (normally $498)

A segment is very important to understand. On your trip I think you can make it in 10 or less segments.

Example - 
The cardinal is a good choice. NYC to Indianapolis is ONE SEGMENT. The LSL to Chicago is ONE SEGMENT (nice waiting room and showers, baggage check $35 (for layover) THEN CHI TO Emeryville SF on the CZ. WOW. crosscountry on three segments !!!

But if you stop in Washington overnight you make the split Cardinal TWO SEGMENTS.

However, say they’re is something of interest at the Indy500 Race track - a stay Indianapolis won’t cost you a segment because it’s at the end of the Cardinal SEGMENT


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all again I'm noting all information aside ! I would like to ask you, if you were an international traveller, which is the most scenic in train from San Francisco :
> 
> - Coast Starlight by the Pacific coast to LA and visiting LA before to go home.
> 
> ...



When you get to San Francisco you’ll probably want to STAY. LA is business. I’ve gone by car from LA to Seattle and north is nicer. I loved Vancouver and Victoria BC

My bucket list includes - near Vancouver - VIARail to Bannf - the most beautiful place on earth


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 10, 2021)

BANNF









Photo by Nataliia Kvitovska on Unsplash


Download this photo by Nataliia Kvitovska on Unsplash




unsplash.com


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## caravanman (Dec 10, 2021)

Please remember that most of us here are train fans! We enjoy the ride on the train as part of our experience, not just to get from A to B. It is a bonus for us to be on a train for a long trip! 

Beware that there is often only one train a day at many USA stations... If you arrive at a place at 05.00, your onward train will also be at 05.00 next day. (A few trains don't even run every day...)

The rail pass is valid for 30 days, or 10 trains. You can use it for just 2 weeks, etc, but max of 10 train rides. (If you travel from Chicago to California, and stop off at Denver and Reno, that will count as 3 train rides.)

You want a nice American experience, but spending 2 weeks all on trains seems a lot. Take the LSL, & the Zephyr, and maybe that would be enough for a first taste?

What is your age? Are you on a small budget, travel coach class or sleeper? These things may help to give better information...

Long distance trains can be slightly like a ship cruise. Some people enjoy the cruise just for the on-board experience, some prefer not to cruise as they enjoy more time seeing the destinations...


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 10, 2021)

Thank you ! I'm 24 and will probably doing this with 2 or 3 other people, in fact i'm divided between 2 train trips : american train coast to coast experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> LA) and what I'm calling american train inland experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> Portland -> Chicago).

I'm planning to stay some days on these points : 1 or 2 days in NYC (I already visited), 2 days approximately in D.C, 3 days in Chicago, 2 days in Denver, 1 day in SLC, 3 days in San Francisco + 1 for Yosemite, then : 3 days in LA or 2 in Portland depending the choice. Maybe is it too much ?

I'm not american so I will probably not doing this multiple times that's why I'm searching for the most scenic by train. I'm considering myself more like a small budget traveller so coach class.


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## pennyk (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> I'm 24 and will probably doing this with 2 or 3 other people


Many of us who are responding to you are well over 24 and are using our own experiences. I think at age 24, you can handle a much different trip that I can. My comment about making reservations 11 months in advance is irrelevant since you plan to travel in coach. I wanted particular rooms that could sell out. If you are healthy and comfortable sleeping/resting in a seated position, I would do as much as you can when you are in the US.


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## joelkfla (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you ! I'm 24 and will probably doing this with 2 or 3 other people, in fact i'm divided between 2 train trips : american train coast to coast experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> LA) and what I'm calling american train inland experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> Portland -> Chicago).
> 
> I'm planning to stay some days on these points : 1 or 2 days in NYC (I already visited), 2 days approximately in D.C, 3 days in Chicago, 2 days in Denver, 1 day in SLC, 3 days in San Francisco + 1 for Yosemite, then : 3 days in LA or 2 in Portland depending the choice. Maybe is it too much ?
> 
> I'm not american so I will probably not doing this multiple times that's why I'm searching for the most scenic by train. I'm considering myself more like a small budget traveller so coach class.


Make reservations early for Yosemite. Lodging inside U.S. National Parks fills up quickly, and Yosemite more so than most.

Most historic lodges in the National Parks are spectacular, and expensive. Yosemite has the Ahwanee. Depending on the season, there may also be motel-style accommodations and tent cabins available.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> LA) and what I'm calling american train inland experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> Portland -> Chicago).
> 
> 1 or 2 days in NYC (I already visited),
> 2 days approximately in D.C,
> ...



If you go ' clockwise' you will need to overnight in LA; 
'Counterclockwise' you do not.

Usually hotels are most expensive in big cities.

I would make it 1 night LA, 2 nights Flagstaff (Grand Canyon).

Are you flying back to France from NYC?


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 10, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Not Culpeper, but Clifton Forge.
> 
> View attachment 26124



You are right! My picture of the train has that exact same yellow cast.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 10, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> The problem with the Cardinal is that the consist is limited -- it usually only has one sleeper, and one Amfleet cafe car that is used as a diner-lounge, with one end reserved for the sleeper passengers, who are served flex food, and the other end for the coach passengers, who have to order off the limited cafe menu.
> 
> I've taken the Cardinal a number of times, and I like the ride, but they really need to upgrade the consist and provide additional lounge space for people to be able to get out of their seats during such a long ride.



They really need to make the good end of the Cafe car available to paying customers, whether coach or sleeper customers. It was frankly infuriating last week to see all the Reserved for Crew signs on the excellent booths (half not being used at all) on the longer all-window end, while we were shunted to the shorter end where two of the booths don't even have a window and at least one booth had one side taken out. Does Amtrak realize some of these are trips are once in a lifetime for some passengers, and that they picked your route to see the scenery? This thread is a perfect example, a great thread that's all about which routes have the best American scenery and which side of the train to sit on and which direction train to choose! ... End of rant.


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## jis (Dec 10, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> They really need to make the good end of the Cafe car available to paying customers, whether coach or sleeper customers. It was frankly infuriating last week to see all the Reserved for Crew signs on the excellent booths (half not being used at all) on the longer all-window end, while we were shunted to the shorter end where two of the booths don't even have a window and at least one booth had one side taken out. Does Amtrak realize some of these are trips are once in a lifetime for some passengers, and that they picked your route to see the scenery? This thread is a perfect example, a great thread that's all about which routes have the best American scenery and which side of the train to sit on and which direction train to choose! ... End of rant.


The current Lounge Car situation in single level LD trains is an abomination. They all need one Lounge Car for the staff and another for the Customers, for all practical purposes IMHO.

Ideally Amtrak should acquire 25 or so Dorm-Lounges for its staff so that they do not have to infringe on customer space.


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## PaulM (Dec 10, 2021)

Saddleshoes said:


> 3) I would like to suggest getting off the train in some of the small towns to get a feel for non-urban America. You may like it.


Some of my favorites are:
Southwest Chief: Las Vegas, NM (not Nevada)
Cal. Zephyr: Galesburg, IL, Mt. Pleasant, IA, Glenwood Springs, CO, Davis, CA
Empire Builder: Whitefish, MT
Coast Starlight: El Paso de Robles, CA


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## v v (Dec 10, 2021)

PaulM said:


> Some of my favorites are:
> Southwest Chief: Las Vegas, NM (not Nevada)
> Cal. Zephyr: Galesburg, IL, Mt. Pleasant, IA, Glenwood Springs, CO, Davis, CA
> Empire Builder: Whitefish, MT
> Coast Starlight: El Paso de Robles, CA



May I ask what it is you like about El Paso de Robles, I'm always looking for a new US town to visit.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 10, 2021)

Las Vegas NM


The former Fred Harvey House in Las Vegas NM, La Castaneda, has re-opened. It is adjacent the Amtrak depot. Its restoration was made possible by the same owners who operate La Posada in Winslow AZ. Both properties are located on the route of the SOUTHWEST CHIEF. http://castanedahotel.org/




www.amtraktrains.com


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 10, 2021)

Bend has lots of microbreweries.






Bend, Oregon?


I'm dreaming/thinking/considering a trip to Bend using the bus from Chemult. What are some fun things to do around town besides the Deschutes River and the nearby Pilot Butte? I won't have a car then, so I can't go far outside of town. By the way, does Chemult have anything to do in it?




www.amtraktrains.com


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## BCL (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you ! I'm 24 and will probably doing this with 2 or 3 other people, in fact i'm divided between 2 train trips : american train coast to coast experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> LA) and what I'm calling american train inland experience (NYC -> D.C -> Chicago -> Denver -> SLC -> SF -> Portland -> Chicago).
> 
> I'm planning to stay some days on these points : 1 or 2 days in NYC (I already visited), 2 days approximately in D.C, 3 days in Chicago, 2 days in Denver, 1 day in SLC, 3 days in San Francisco + 1 for Yosemite, then : 3 days in LA or 2 in Portland depending the choice. Maybe is it too much ?
> 
> I'm not american so I will probably not doing this multiple times that's why I'm searching for the most scenic by train. I'm considering myself more like a small budget traveller so coach class.



Yosemite is going to be tough. Not sure if the reservation system is still going to be in place. Strike that - it was only for those coming in with personal vehicles and currently that's no longer required. What Amtrak does is work with Yosemite's regional transportation system to get passengers from the Merced Amtrak station to different points in Yosemite. It's called the Yosemite Area Regional Transportation System (YARTS). They accept both passengers with Amtrak tickets as well as others who pay cash fares, who have have reservations, or even commuter passes (mostly for those who live outside the park but work there). It's my understanding that Amtrak ticketed passengers have the highest priority. I believe this is the pickup point at Merced Amtrak.












YARTS - Public Transit to Yosemite


Yosemite Area Regional Transportation System




yarts.com










As for lodging, that gets a little bit tricky. It is tough getting a reservation in Yosemite. They become available a year in advance. It might be possible to camp, although I don't know how comfortable you would be with that and whether you could manage all the equipment in addition to your other baggage. I'll send you some info through a private message.


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## PaulM (Dec 10, 2021)

v v said:


> May I ask what it is you like about El Paso de Robles, I'm always looking for a new US town to visit.


First of all its bike and pedestrian friendly, then there's Joe's Place for breakfast. The countryside around it is also bike friendly and contains a bunch of wineries. One of them has, or had, several vintage Pullman cars available for visiting.

The station is near downtown; but has no agent and thus no baggage service.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 10, 2021)

Thank you all of you guys for these information, I really appreciacte ! 

I readed on the net about train delays, is that true for all lines ? It could be also the case in advance ? I mean, should I come before the train is suppose to arriving ?


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## joelkfla (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all of you guys for these information, I really appreciacte !
> 
> I readed on the net about train delays, is that true for all lines ? It could be also the case in advance ? I mean, should I come before the train is suppose to arriving ?


No, Amtrak trains will not leave before the scheduled time, if it's a station where passengers board the train. But you do need to arrive early, usually 30 minutes, if you're checking baggage. It can vary a bit by station. There have been stories on here of the station agent refusing to check a bag one minute after the deadline.

Amtrak trains sometimes run on time, but frequently run late. That's mostly because the rails are owned by freight railroads except in a few locations, and although there's a law saying they're supposed to give Amtrak priority, it's widely ignored. There are also the common problems of freight trains breaking down or derailing and blocking the route, cars and pedestrians being struck (rail lines generally aren't fenced in America, and a fair number of drivers do stupid things at grade crossings), and Amtrak equipment breakdowns. When a car or pedestrian is struck (called a "trespasser incident" in Amtrak lingo), a line can be blocked for hours while the police investigate.


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## BCL (Dec 10, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all of you guys for these information, I really appreciacte !
> 
> I readed on the net about train delays, is that true for all lines ? It could be also the case in advance ? I mean, should I come before the train is suppose to arriving ?



It's generally a good idea. Also make sure that you know where the boarding is going to take place. I've made a mistake and ended up in the wrong place and missed a train.

If you miss a train and you have different segments linked together, you can potentially have your entire reservation cancelled as a result. There's typically about 2 hours given for a no-show where they generally cancel the entire reservation.

So it's very important to figure out what to do if you somehow miss a train. You might be able to call it in to Amtrak or contact a station agent to sort out your options. The last time I missed a train I still had about 2 hours to do that and just cancelled my entire reservation (with a 10% penalty) and repurchased tickets using a slightly different routing. You might need to call in to Amtrak reservations to handle it while you find alternate transportation. For example, a large family that missed the same train I did was advised that the next stop was an extended one and they might be able to catch up by taking an Uber ride. But that was the Coast Starlight in Emeryville, and the train had an extended stop in Oakland where it wasn't leaving for maybe 35 minutes and the Uber ride was maybe 15 minutes.

If it's late, you should be able to monitor the status if you have an electronic device with internet connection, whether that's cellular data, WiFi, or whatever else. I used the Amtrak app on my iPhone, but Amtrak has a website with trains status available. My last ride the return train was over 3 hours late and I felt comfortable with the estimated time just staying in town about 2 hours longer than I'd originally planned. However, the estimated time when late is very much a guess and they have been known to make up time. Often trains had extended dwell time or where they go slowly through certain sections of track when on schedule, but if it's late they may not do that.

Trains can be late for any number of reasons, including collisions on the track or equipment failure. I mentioned my train that was more than 3 hours late. That train had no problems on its own, but it was coming from Los Angeles and apparently a commuter train had run over someone sleeping on the tracks. That resulted in pretty much all trains coming out of LA being delayed. But that train just didn't slow down. It normally takes about 2.5 hours for my routing, but since it was late it only took about 1.5 hours since they didn't slow down and made it up by ignoring the padding.


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## Alice (Dec 11, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Make reservations early for Yosemite. Lodging inside U.S. National Parks fills up quickly, and Yosemite more so than most.
> 
> Most historic lodges in the National Parks are spectacular, and expensive. Yosemite has the Ahwanee. Depending on the season, there may also be motel-style accommodations and tent cabins available.


There is lodging outside Yosemite that might meet your needs better. Yosemite Bug Hostel has a variety of accommodations and prices, and you can eat at their very good cafe or use their kitchen. The YARTS bus runs from Amtrak Merced (on the San Joaquin route) to Yosemite with a stop at Yosemite Bug. It is better to pay cash for the bus than to spend a segment on it. The same probably applies to getting between SF (or Emeryville) and Merced. I was able to get last minute reservations in one of the lodge rooms earlier this week when everything in the park under about $400/night was booked up. Even the walk-in and bike-in campgrounds were packed. It is about an hour driving from Yosemite Valley.


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## DaveW (Dec 11, 2021)

What type of countryside do you want to see? Do you know how it will be affected by the time of year you are there?

youtube shows condensed versions with various bloggers making those individual legs.


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## Willbridge (Dec 11, 2021)

BarbW said:


> I highly recommend the Cardinal. The views through the New River Gorge and under the bridge are not to be missed. I also recommend the Portland end of the Empire Builder (often called the Baby Builder). You can immediately take your dinner to the lounge car and enjoy your evening traveling through the Columbia River Gorge, right on the river's edge.


On the North Bank Line, the Columbia River and Mount Hood:

-- Maryhill, looking west, taken on one of the Amtrak staff educational trips.




From the Sightseer Lounge on Train 28.


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 11, 2021)

LA
In consensus 3 days in LA is a bit much but rent a car for three days in LA and drive north and south on the “Coast Highway” is great.
Day trip to Yosemite YES BUT GET THERE EARLY. The Grand Canyon ,via Route .66) is 8 hours away! Generally car rentals are $35 or more a day unlimited mileage. Pickup and dropp off the same - if different that costs.

AMTRAK BUS
Talking about being on time - arrive 45 minutes early so you defiantly understand where the bus picks you up. In early AM I took an Uber/Lyft from SF Airport to the Amtrak Bus. The Lyft driver knew about the Amtrak bus too! When booking I also talked in detail to a specialist that knew the bus. I was all set.

TEAL
The shoulder boards (epaulettes) that have four teal (blue green) stripes designate the conductor’s uniform. There are assistant conductors and other staff to help but the conductor is responsible for the overall operation of train. Example- the conductor witnesses the coupling of the train and everything else. When I injured a knee staff called the conductor to see if I needed a wheelchair as well as filing a claim.


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## Shanson (Dec 11, 2021)

Rambling Robert said:


> My bucket list includes - near Vancouver - VIARail to Bannf - the most beautiful place on earth


Robert, VIA Rail doesn't serve Banff. It DOES serve Jasper. To go by rail to Banff, plan on the Rocky Mountaineer.


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## caravanman (Dec 11, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all of you guys for these information, I really appreciacte !
> 
> I readed on the net about train delays, is that true for all lines ? It could be also the case in advance ? I mean, should I come before the train is suppose to arriving ?


There is the chance of delay on any lines, but most often on the long distance lines in the west, which share rails with freight trains. 
You don't need to worry about a train departing early, it will wait for it's timetable time. 
It makes sense to arrive to board a train a little early, Amtrak employees love to make passengers stand in line for a long time before you board...


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## happycamper (Dec 11, 2021)

We did a private tour in LA all over including Rodeo Dr, Hollywood, Santa Monica Pier, etc that was very very cool. If you go to LA and you said you are not driving might be worth looking into a tour. Also if going to spend time in LA might want to hop the train down to San Diego with the coastal views and spend a day there as you are right by the water when you get off the train. LA you are about an hour to Long Beach to see the Pacific Ocean. SW Chief route you get to do the Iconic Route 66 to Chicago and get to go through Kansas (not in Kansas anymore). Also that route takes you through Flagstaff if you are interested in taking a tour from there to Grand Canyon and or Sedona for awesome views. The Coast from SF to Seattle is beautiful train ride. Might go to Seattle instead of Portland as it is a great city to visit where you can walk to Pikes Place Market with the flying fish and take a foot ferry across to an island to walk around. Great young city. Seattle to Chicago on the EB is a beautiful trip. I honestly prefer the Mountains on the CZ route as they are more rocks (Rockies) where the ones at Glacier are covered in pine trees. Both are beautiful. It was great to see Montana for the first time! The views in Minnesota (Land of the Lakes) is really pretty. Hard to say which is more "American" as one you have Los Angeles, Route 66, Kansas, and Grand Canyon and the other you have Montana and Seattle... Which sounds better????


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## happycamper (Dec 11, 2021)

Asked hubby and he said Grand Canyon, Kansas route would probably be more american. Of course being from TX we think what about TX? LOL LOL LOL


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 11, 2021)

Thank you all again !! How many days could you recommend me at places I could stop like for example : Chicago I thought 3 days, Denver 2 to 3 days (I have no car but take a day tour trip), Salt Lake City : 1 or 2 days, San Francisco : 3 days, Los Angeles 2 or 3 days ?


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 11, 2021)

I have talked to other visitors from Europe, or even the Eastern US, who find our Great Plains more astounding than the mountains. I'm from wooded Pennsylvania, and my strongest memories from the SW Chief and the Empire Builder are of the Plains. The sky is always changing, the light is amazing, and you're just crossing such wide open spaces for hours and hours. It doesn't happen in Europe. And read the short masterpiece Great Plains by Ian Frazier before you go. Of course, sit in the SSL as much as possible to get the full effect.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 11, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all again !! How many days could you recommend me at places I could stop like for example : Chicago I thought 3 days, Denver 2 to 3 days (I have no car but take a day tour trip), Salt Lake City : 1 or 2 days, San Francisco : 3 days, Los Angeles 2 or 3 days ?



That is a lot of cities, it would be too much for me and I love cities. (But, I'm 43 years older than you.) I've spent several days in each of those cities, and prefer Chicago and San Francisco among them, but also Seattle and Portland. My favorite big cities in the US are New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia, all very compact and walkable. Miami is also fun (Miami Beach even more so). Depends what you want to do - if you want to see a lot of architecture, restaurants, clubs, and museums, by all means go to all of them. How about some less-visited Midwest cities like Kansas City? (On the SW Chief route.) So many choices, you lucky person!


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## v v (Dec 11, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all again !! How many days could you recommend me at places I could stop like for example : Chicago I thought 3 days, Denver 2 to 3 days (I have no car but take a day tour trip), Salt Lake City : 1 or 2 days, San Francisco : 3 days, Los Angeles 2 or 3 days ?



We are fortunate to have a friend who lives in LA for the winter months and he has pointed out other things to do and places to see there on top of the good examples mentioned above. One example is the Griffith Observatory where you not only get an open to the public observatory and museum, but a completely unique view of Los Angeles. There are many more examples of lesser visited places and things to do especially if you or your friends like film or art.
Some of our experiences in LA came from suggestions from people here on this forum too, we haven't been dissappointed yet.
What surprised us about LA was thinking that the only transport would be car, but LA has an excellent, very extensive and easy to use public transport system reaching out to places a long way outside downtown, and the ticket prices or passes are so so reasonable.

San Francisco also has a very extensive public transport system, you don't need a car in either city or many of the places around them.

We've only used buses in Denver within downtown so can't comment on Denver, but others here particularly Willbridge have a vast knowledge.

If architecture is your thing then your arrival station 'Union Station' is special, built in the local style and very different to most or even all others.

We have always avoided the summer in the US as most popular places can be very busy so we are told. Spring in the mountains and the southern states is perfect.

Good luck, and enjoy your planning.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 11, 2021)

Make sure to go to a baseball game. Minor League ballparks are also fun, and much cheaper.


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## joelkfla (Dec 11, 2021)

Alice said:


> There is lodging outside Yosemite that might meet your needs better. Yosemite Bug Hostel has a variety of accommodations and prices, and you can eat at their very good cafe or use their kitchen. The YARTS bus runs from Amtrak Merced (on the San Joaquin route) to Yosemite with a stop at Yosemite Bug. It is better to pay cash for the bus than to spend a segment on it. The same probably applies to getting between SF (or Emeryville) and Merced. I was able to get last minute reservations in one of the lodge rooms earlier this week when everything in the park under about $400/night was booked up. Even the walk-in and bike-in campgrounds were packed. It is about an hour driving from Yosemite Valley.


How does a party get from the hostel to Yosemite without a car?


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## jis (Dec 11, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> How does a party get from the hostel to Yosemite without a car?


As mentioned in the post, using the YARTS shuttle.









Shuttle Services in Yosemite National Park CA | TravelYosemite.com


Park your car when you arrive and enjoy the ease and convenience of our complimentary shuttle buses.




www.travelyosemite.com


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## joelkfla (Dec 11, 2021)

Rambling Robert said:


> The Lyft driver knew about the Amtrak bus too!


General rule: Never count on a Lyft/Uber driver knowing anything they can't find on Google Maps. You might get an experienced driver who knows all the ins and outs, or you might get someone driving his first day in the city.


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## joelkfla (Dec 11, 2021)

jis said:


> As mentioned in the post, using the YARTS shuttle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, OK. I thought it was an Amtrak bus.


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## jis (Dec 11, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Oh, OK. I thought it was an Amtrak bus.


I think it also plays the role of Amtrak Thruway connection from Merced Amtrak to Yosemite Park, but not absolutely sure about that. Maybe @Alice can clarify. 

I have actually driven to the vicinity of Yosemite (from Cupertino), parked somewhere and then used the YARTS shuttle to get around locally. That was one long but extremely enjoyable day.


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## joelkfla (Dec 11, 2021)

One thing about SF: they're experiencing a high number of window smash and grab burglaries from parked cars, especially but not exclusively in popular tourist areas. On one newscast, a police official recommended that visitors not rent a car to get around the city.

Fortunately, SF has a good transit system, mostly buses. I think there are also a lot of Lyft and Uber drivers working the area.


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## jis (Dec 11, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> One thing about SF: they're experiencing a high number of window smash and grab burglaries from parked cars, especially but not exclusively in popular tourist areas. On one newscast, a police official recommended that visitors not rent a car to get around the city.
> 
> Fortunately, SF has a good transit system, mostly buses. I think there are also a lot of Lyft and Uber drivers working the area.


Indeed, I have spent significant periods of time in the San Francisco are and I have never used a rental car to get around San Francisco. Usually I used to visit Santas Clara/Mountainview/Cupertino/Palo Alto for work (working for HP back then would do that to you  ), and while in Silicon Valley I'd use a rental car, but to do anything in San Francisco I'd take Caltrain in and then use transit or Uber.


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## Rambling Robert (Dec 11, 2021)

I’ve only taken on


joelkfla said:


> General rule: Never count on a Lyft/Uber driver knowing anything they can't find on Google Maps. You might get an experienced driver who knows all the ins and outs, or you might get someone driving his first day in the city.



That was the only uber/lift I’ve EVER taken. haha. He had just bought his Honda Accord in Miami and worked his way literally to SF to settle for a while. The Lyft was difficult to find at the airport and cost $32 compared to a taxi $140 or more.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 11, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all again !! How many days could you recommend me at places I could stop like for example : Chicago I thought 3 days, Denver 2 to 3 days (I have no car but take a day tour trip), Salt Lake City : 1 or 2 days, San Francisco : 3 days, Los Angeles 2 or 3 days ?



I think you should try to find the accommodation on the internet exactly where and when you plan to stay to help you decide.

I guess you may need to lay over in Chicago as the trains arrive too late for the afternoon departures of both the California Zepher and SW Chief. 




That should give you the next morning to see some Chicago. Do you have a hotel plan in Chicago? 

Leaving Chicago first night on the train. Daylight in either West Nebraska or Kansas ( depending on train) or Colorado if the train is late.

I'm not sure what to see in Denver for 3 days. Maybe 1 Denver, 1 Glenwood Springs, 1 ....? 

How many nights in a row will you sleep on the train?


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## BCL (Dec 11, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Oh, OK. I thought it was an Amtrak bus.



It's technically YARTS, but they have an agreement that's similar to an airline codeshare for Amtrak to use a thruway service. There are various ways to board, with an Amtrak ticket, a reserved ticket, cash fare, or a 10-ride commuter ticket. The Amtrak and reserved tickets are obviously reserved and supposedly have priority. I don't know how they deal with it given how many stops they have with no way of knowing exactly how many 10-ride or cash passengers there might be.

It's my understanding that YARTS will wait a reasonable time for Amtrak, but obviously not too long since most of the passengers aren't coming from Amtrak.

This is a pretty good explanation:









“Yosemite Valley, to me, is always a sunrise, a glitter of green and golden wonder in a vast edifice of stone and space.” ~ Ansel Adams


While in California this past February I had the opportunity to re-visit a place that I hadn't been to since my parents had come out to visi...




www.thedistractedwanderer.com


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## Alice (Dec 12, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> How does a party get from the hostel to Yosemite without a car?


The YARTS bus.


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## Alice (Dec 12, 2021)

jis said:


> I think it also plays the role of Amtrak Thruway connection from Merced Amtrak to Yosemite Park, but not absolutely sure about that. Maybe @Alice can clarify.
> 
> I have actually driven to the vicinity of Yosemite (from Cupertino), parked somewhere and then used the YARTS shuttle to get around locally. That was one long but extremely enjoyable day.


Suspect Amtrak is just a stop for YARTS. It also serves the airport and is used by people not going all the way to Yosemite, although all routes from all directions end at Yosemite Valley. The route from Merced is the only year-round route.


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## Willbridge (Dec 12, 2021)

jis said:


> Indeed, I have spent significant periods of time in the San Francisco are and I have never used a rental car to get around San Francisco. Usually I used to visit Santas Clara/Mountainview/Cupertino/Palo Alto for work (working for HP back then would do that to you  ), and while in Silicon Valley I'd use a rental car, but to do anything in San Francisco I'd take Caltrain in and then use transit or Uber.


Yes! I can only recall taking a big station wagon into SF once on a weekend and that was the idea of a fellow Fort Ord soldier from Joplin, MO. I tried to talk him into riding the _Del Monte_ in and the Muni around town, but he wouldn't listen. We spent a good amount of time looking for parking places or hiking from the places we found. He and the three Chicano NM National Guardsmen in our expedition were great guys but had never been in SF before. After the trip they agreed: "next time try the train."

I did ride in and out between Marin County and Haight-Ashbury on Spring Break in 1967, but that was driven by a native who knew an obscure, small place in the Haight to park a VW. I'm not sure if a "commuter hippie" counts in discussing visitor transportation.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 12, 2021)

Thanks! About Denver, I thought : the first day I'm arriving at 07.15 (without delay) so just visiting the city itself. Then, the day after take a day tour trip to the Rocky Mountains for the day and the day after taking a day tour trip for Garden of the gods and Pike peaks. Do you think that too much for just Denver ?


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## MARC Rider (Dec 12, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> Yes! I can only recall taking a big station wagon into SF once on a weekend and that was the idea of a fellow Fort Ord soldier from Joplin, MO. I tried to talk him into riding the _Del Monte_ in and the Muni around town, but he wouldn't listen. We spent a good amount of time looking for parking places or hiking from the places we found. He and the three Chicano NM National Guardsmen in our expedition were great guys but had never been in SF before. After the trip they agreed: "next time try the train."
> 
> I did ride in and out between Marin County and Haight-Ashbury on Spring Break in 1967, but that was driven by a native who knew an obscure, small place in the Haight to park a VW. I'm not sure if a "commuter hippie" counts in discussing visitor transportation.


The first trip I ever made to San Francisco was for a conference in the city, but I rented a car because I wanted to visit my sister in Berkely, and I stayed over a weekend and toured around a bit, going to Miur Woods and the Napa Valley. The car they gave me had a stick shift, which was a bit of a nuisance in a city like San Francisco with all the steep hills. Years later, we took a family camping trip to the Sierra Nevada, which ended with a few days in San Francisco. The rental car agency gave us a nice big station wagon, which was great with all our camping gear, but we needed to take it into the city and unload our stuff at the hotel. We then returned it to the downtown office of the rental car company, but not before we took a drive down Lombard Street, "the crookedest street in the world." Fortunately, that station wagon had an automatic transmission.


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## Trollopian (Dec 12, 2021)

BalmyZephyr said:


> That is a lot of cities, it would be too much for me and I love cities. (But, I'm 43 years older than you.) I've spent several days in each of those cities, and prefer Chicago and San Francisco among them, but also Seattle and Portland. My favorite big cities in the US are New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia, all very compact and walkable...



Thank you, thank you, Balmy Zephyr! Pittsburgh is well worth a stop. Extremely walkable, around downtown (take one of the History and Landmark Foundation's walking tours, phlf.org) and to the Incline and the Point and the ballpark and the Warhol and the Strip and the Heinz Museum, and an easy bus ride to the museum and university district. Brendan Gill, the _New Yorker_'s longtime architecture critic, famously wrote that “If Pittsburgh were situated somewhere in the heart of Europe, tourists would eagerly journey hundreds of miles out of their way to visit it.” But in fact it's not at all out of the way. I heartily recommend NYC to Pittsburgh via Philadelphia (also worth a stopover) on the Pennsylvanian, a little over 24 hours in Pittsburgh, then on to Chicago on the Capitol Limited. 48 hours, even better. Yinz welcome.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 12, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thanks! About Denver, I thought : the first day I'm arriving at 07.15 (without delay) so just visiting the city itself. Then, the day after take a day tour trip to the Rocky Mountains for the day and the day after taking a day tour trip for Garden of the gods and Pike peaks. Do you think that too much for just Denver ?



Many consider the Amtrak west from Denver a good tour of the Rockies just looking out the window.

Denver is a big city with lots of things to see and do. Many other cities have similar attractions so it is a matter to choose.

Estes Park and Boulder are close to Rocky Mountain National Park.

There are day tours on this web site:








Things To Do Around Colorado | VISIT DENVER


From attractions & activities near Denver Colorado, to our historic and majestic backyard in the mountains, find the best Denver day trips!



www.denver.org





The Cog Railway up Pikes Pike is in operation from Manitou Spring or you can hike or drive up. Garden of the Gods is near so a good pair.

If you check the schedule can you manage?










The Broadmoor Manitou & Pikes Peak Cog Railway


Near Denver and Colorado Springs, the world's highest cog train takes families to the 14,110-foot summit of America's Mountain, Pikes Peak, Colorado.




www.cograilway.com





Amtrak stops at Winter Park which is very high altitude. Glenwood Springs is lower elevation but many say it is an excellent stop with reasonable hotels near the Amtrak station.

I should add when I did the Chicagoi - Denver Amtrak it was 4-5 hours late, which changes plans


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 12, 2021)

I wonder if Amtrak will have this again next year? 



jebr said:


> Currently the only pass available seems to be a 10 segment, 30 day pass - normally $499, but on sale for $299 until June 22, 2021.



This makes every segment only $30.

If you plan on using even more stops you could pay cash for a short segment. That is an important advantage to day tours on your trip.

The month and day of travel could affect your options, especially after early May through September.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 12, 2021)

Chicago accommodation here



WWW said:


> Airport hotels are generally less expensive than downtown hotels - - -
> 
> Arriving Amtrak -
> 
> ...


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## BCL (Dec 12, 2021)

Alice said:


> Suspect Amtrak is just a stop for YARTS. It also serves the airport and is used by people not going all the way to Yosemite, although all routes from all directions end at Yosemite Valley. The route from Merced is the only year-round route.



Again, it is an interesting combination of a commuter shuttle, visitor transportation, and Amtrak Thruway service. The biggest source of funding is the federal government (obviously because a lot of park workers use it on top of bringing in visitors), but then also with state and local government sources. The revenue they get from Amtrak is substantial, although they seem to have an agreement with Greyhound. I suspect that they wouldn't be able to justify the service if they didn't include Amtrak given how many Amtrak riders use it.



https://yarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/YARTS-Approved-19-20-Budget.pdf


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## BCL (Dec 13, 2021)

BCL said:


> Again, it is an interesting combination of a commuter shuttle, visitor transportation, and Amtrak Thruway service. The biggest source of funding is the federal government (obviously because a lot of park workers use it on top of bringing in visitors), but then also with state and local government sources. The revenue they get from Amtrak is substantial, although they seem to have an agreement with Greyhound. I suspect that they wouldn't be able to justify the service if they didn't include Amtrak given how many Amtrak riders use it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://yarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/YARTS-Approved-19-20-Budget.pdf



I was looking at the revenue stream, and either that's a massive coincidence that both years have the same amount of revenue from Amtrak, or Amtrak just pays YARTS a fixed annual amount under contract.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 28, 2021)

Hello guys ! After a moment of absence because of winter holidays I want to thanks you all for your answers, I'm keeping the most information I can aside. 

My current trip idea is about 3 weeks trying to mix very interesting places and most scenic routes :

- NYC (juste one day because I already visited) 
- Taking the Cardinal from NYC to Chicago (seem to be the most scenic ride on east side?),
- 2 or 3 days in Chicago
- Taking the CZ to Denver 
- 1 or 2 days in Denver (Do you recommend more an excursion in the Rockies mountains or Pike peaks with garden of the Gods?)
- Taking the CZ to SLC
- 1 day in SLC
- Taking the CZ to SF
- 2 or 3 days in SF
- Taking the CS to LA, I know that I will probably not see the pacific coast passing trough southbound 
- 2 days in LA
- Taking the CS from LA to Seattle : for the landscapes !
- 1 day finishing in Seattle

Do you recommend this ? This don't seem too tiring ? 

As a French I would love to see New Orleans but it's far from others cities and it will cost me a surplus 
then it may not be interesting as a first trip :/.


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## BalmyZephyr (Dec 28, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello guys ! After a moment of absence because of winter holidays I want to thanks you all for your answers, I'm keeping the most information I can aside.
> 
> My current trip idea is about 3 weeks trying to mix very interesting places and most scenic routes :
> 
> ...



That's a great trip! As long as you have a good bed to sleep in between train segments, it shouldn't be too tiring. The Cardinal would have more daylight in the scenic New River Gorge going East, but if it's spring or summer you'll have longer days than we did in December. But, the views in the Eastern US are more open in winter or very early spring, as I probably mentioned before. You might consider skipping NYC, since you've been there, or taking a Northeast Corridor train to DC, and spending a day + night in DC visiting a few free museums and seeing the grand buildings and monuments on the Washington Mall. The Vietnam memorial is amazing. You can board the Cardinal in DC late morning to head for Chicago. Either way, it sounds fantastic. In Denver, if the Rockies baseball team are in town, try to catch a game. They have one row of purple seats high in the ballpark. That's exactly one mile high!


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 28, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello guys ! After a moment of absence because of winter holidays I want to thanks you all for your answers, I'm keeping the most information I can aside.
> 
> My current trip idea is about 3 weeks trying to mix very interesting places and most scenic routes :
> 
> ...


Looks like a pretty good plan! Especially if you have carefully planned your itinerary.

Also make plans for the train being late and behind schedule.

Sometimes 'late' you get better views because of more daylight, but you could also have problems with hotels, etc.


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## jiml (Dec 28, 2021)

Instead of breaking your CZ trip in Denver, you might want to consider Glenwood Springs, CO. Historic hot springs town in the mountains, with almost everything you need in walking distance of the Amtrak station. There are lots of searchable posts here on Glenwood Springs. Denver is fine, but just another average big city unless you have a car.


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## Sidney (Dec 28, 2021)

jiml said:


> Instead of breaking your CZ trip in Denver, you might want to consider Glenwood Springs, CO. Historic hot springs town in the mountains, with almost everything you need in walking distance of the Amtrak station. There are lots of searchable posts here on Glenwood Springs. Denver is fine, but just another average big city unless you have a car.


Concur on Glenwood Springs. Broke up my rail pass earlier this year. Beautiful setting,downtown restaurants and shopping are close to the station and hotels are within walking distance.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 28, 2021)

Thank you all guys ! We will not driving a car so probably Glenwood Springs is a better and finest choice !

I will also think about starting from Washington, it seem a better choice taking account that museums are free there it's very interesting to get american museums about the US before starting the trip.


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 28, 2021)

Here's a possibility for a side trip for some of the best scenery on the Empire Builder.

Stop at Portland, OR and take the EB to Spokane. Then take the westbound EB to Seattle. 

Portland > Spokane 
Spokane > Seattle

There's a lot of great scenery in the Columbia River gorge. Especially if you travel during daylight 

This trip would be dark in the winter.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 28, 2021)

Oh I didn't think about it thank you ! It will be in Spring or Summer and the Portland and Seattle sections seem to be very scenic !!



tgstubbs1 said:


> Here's a possibility for a side trip for some of the best scenery on the Empire Builder.
> 
> Stop at Portland, OR and take the EB to Spokane. Then take the westbound EB to Seattle.
> 
> ...


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## GAT (Dec 29, 2021)

Just for fun. I'd like to offer you another option to consider, based on my experience and also a little bit of logic. If you want to see as much diversity in this great, huge country's geography as possible, I suggest the following:

Cardinal and Zephyr to Emeryville/San Francisco, by far the most scenic route across the interior of the country.
Coast Starlight to Los Angeles, in my opinion more scenic and diverse countryside -vineyards, vegetable farmlands, tortuous mountain pass, ocean coastline, space rocket launching site, and all during the daylight hours in summer. Added attraction, if you have sleeper accommodation, of the Pacific Parlor Car.
Sunset Limited to New Orleans, a totally different feel of the American west because of the strong Mexican/Hispanic history and influences. (To my way of thinking, the Empire Builder and the SW Chief are too similar to the California Zephyr in scenery.) The desert landscape along the Mexican border can be spectacular, especially in dry climate where lightning storms can be seen flashing across the horizon at night. Besides, if you have, like many Frenchmen, a love for American jazz and great cuisine, you'll love New Orleans.
City of New Orleans to Chicago, what I call the Woody and Arlo Guthrie train, up the Mississippi and through America's heartland south to north, a fine complement to your earlier east-west crossing.
Lake Shore Limited back to New York.
You will have missed the southeast Atlantic region and the northwest Pacific region, but you will have gotten a taste of all the rest - especially if you have the time and money to enjoy stopping along the way.
I hope I haven't totally discombobulated your trip planning!  I agree with other commenters that, whatever route you take, you'll enjoy it.


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## Kevinx244974 (Dec 31, 2021)

George said:


> Just for fun. I'd like to offer you another option to consider, based on my experience and also a little bit of logic. If you want to see as much diversity in this great, huge country's geography as possible, I suggest the following:
> 
> Cardinal and Zephyr to Emeryville/San Francisco, by far the most scenic route across the interior of the country.
> Coast Starlight to Los Angeles, in my opinion more scenic and diverse countryside -vineyards, vegetable farmlands, tortuous mountain pass, ocean coastline, space rocket launching site, and all during the daylight hours in summer. Added attraction, if you have sleeper accommodation, of the Pacific Parlor Car.
> ...



Thank you a lot George!

I'm now questioning myself ahaha, should I more from LA taking northbound with the Coast Starlight and stop in Seattle or otherwise taking the Sunset Limited and visiting New Orleans


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Dec 31, 2021)

George said:


> Added attraction, if you have sleeper accommodation, of the Pacific Parlor Car.


I thought Amtrak got rid of the Pacific Parlor car?


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## jis (Dec 31, 2021)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I thought Amtrak got rid of the Pacific Parlor car?


Right. The Pacific Parlour Cars have been gone for a few years now.









Amtrak permanently retiring Pacific Parlour Cars | Trains Magazine


Trains magazine offers railroad news, railroad industry insight, commentary on today's freight railroads, passenger service (Amtrak), locomotive technology, railroad preservation and history, railfan opportunities (tourist railroads, fan trips), and great railroad photography.




www.trains.com


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## tgstubbs1 (Dec 31, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you a lot George!
> 
> I'm now questioning myself ahaha, should I more from LA taking northbound with the Coast Starlight and stop in Seattle or otherwise taking the Sunset Limited and visiting New Orleans



It looks like part of your plans need to be concerned with available tickets for your target date ranges.

Have you read ( on this forum) about 'bucket fares" and best time ( months until travel date) to purchase reservations? 

Many people seem to make reservations as much as 6 months from travel dates. Or they look at web reservations to study available seats.

Even if you can use the Rail Pass you have to make reservations, although the price won't change even if you make reservations only 24 hours. (a great advantage of the Rail Pass!)


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## GAT (Dec 31, 2021)

jis said:


> Right. The Pacific Parlour Cars have been gone for a few years now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that. I last rode it in 2010.


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## GAT (Dec 31, 2021)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you a lot George!
> 
> I'm now questioning myself ahaha, should I more from LA taking northbound with the Coast Starlight and stop in Seattle or otherwise taking the Sunset Limited and visiting New Orleans


Well, Kevin, working through confusion is part of the fun of trip planning.  

My recommendation was based on my own experience on what to me was my best Amtrak trip: 2008 - Roomette accommodations (I was 70 at the time and wanted my comfort) - Seattle-Chicago; Chicago-New Orleans; New Orleans-Los Angeles; Los Angeles-Seattle. I liked the idea of going down the Mississippi rather than up it for historical nostalgic reasons (Mark Twain and all that) and the idea of entering New Orleans (my only stopover - the cuisine, the cuisine!) by crossing Lake Pontchartrain.

What a variety of scenery! _ True, I _missed the California Zephyr, but I took it westbound a couple of years later and will be taking it eastbound this coming April. Since you're starting in New York, you can also sample both the Lakeshore Limited and the Cardinal in either direction. I've ridden the former and will ride the latter in April.

All this assuming you have the time and the money. But even if not, it;' fun to dream, and I'm willing to bet that once you've seen part of America by train, you'll want to come back to see the rest.


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## GAT (Jan 1, 2022)

One other thought, Kevin. I hope you're not expecting SNCF or Trenitalia speed, efficiency, and on-time performance from Amtrak.  But don' t let that dissuade you


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 1, 2022)

I wonder if they will have the Rail Pass in sale. 

I believe that Amtrak allows people to "adjust" their reservations when there is a lower price. So if you purchase now and the price is lower next summer you can keep the reservation but get the lower price.






USA Rail Pass is back!


Amtrak is relaunching its USA Rail Pass by offering the 10-ride pass for $299 through June 22, a savings of $200 over the regular price. The electronic pass allows up to 10 segments of coach travel in a 30-day period; trips involving a connection will count for two segments, and upgrades to...




www.amtraktrains.com










USA Rail Pass confusion


Hi guys! Prospective first-time Amtrak rider here. I purchased the USA Rail Pass when it was on sale back in June. I planned to book multiple trips using different routes. For instance, I plan to visit my friend in New York. To get there, I'd go Empire Builder from MPLS to Chicago, transfer to...




www.amtraktrains.com










Rail Pass: bus bridge question


My Rail Pass trip begins on Sept 12 and my first train is the Coast Starlight. IF the bus bridge is still operating on that date will my LA to Seattle portion now be considered 3 segments or will Amtrak honor that portion as one segment? I also end my trip on the Coast Starlight....which...




www.amtraktrains.com


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## Kevinx244974 (Jan 2, 2022)

Thank you all of you ! I’ll now look for solutions to get lower prices possible !

If it's for a coach seat, should I also book long time in advance?

Do you know if there will be any other discounts on the pass?

My itinerary has changed again thanks to all of your recommandations , the interest of this new one is to cross the United States from south east to north west in one journey to see the most different and scenic landscapes and cities of the USA :
New Orleans (2 days) -> Chicago (2 days) -> break in Glenwood Springs (1 day) -> San Francisco (3 days) -> LA (2 days) -> Seattle (1 day).

What do you think of it ?


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## GAT (Jan 2, 2022)

Looks like fun. Assuming you're starting in New York, will you be taking the Crescent to New Orleans, or will you fly? Also, if you go from San Francisco to Los Angeles and then to Seattle on the Coast Starlight, you'll be doubling back on the same route. You could avoid this by taking the San Joaquin/freeway bus southbound, then the CS northbound for its entire route. In my opinion, the San Joaquin is not all that impressive, but you will travel a lot of the route that the high speed train will take if it ever gets completed. And you will see a different type of California's massive agriculture inventory than what you'll see on the Coast Starlight.

I'm personally delighted that you want to spend three days in my home town of San Francisco. You won't regret it. When will you odyssey begin?


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 2, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you all of you ! I’ll now look for solutions to get lower prices possible !
> 
> If it's for a coach seat, should I also book long time in advance?
> 
> Do you know if there will be any other discounts on the pass?



I don't know if there is anyone on the forum that knows the future discount or has extensive experience with discounts on fares but you could always post a question about this.

There is a thread about fare prices for sleepers and Long Distance trains.

It seems to me train travel has become more popular in the US so you might "play" with the reservation app on the Amtrak web site to see the % of seats available for that date.

Especially after school term ends in early May.


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## niemi24s (Jan 2, 2022)

tgstubbs1 said:


> There is a thread about fare prices for sleepers and Long Distance trains.


Post #84 in this thread... Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets) ...has a chart showing all the various fares for traveling the entire route on each of the long distance trains. 

• The very lowest Coach Saver fares are usually available for travel two weeks in the future
• There's really no way to know when the lowest sleeper fares might be available.


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## Pal2Pluto (Jan 3, 2022)

I'm glad to see you are going to New Orleans as you have expressed a real interest in seeing it. I've only traveled to Europe a couple of times. Each time, I treated it as a "trip of a lifetime" because I believe life is fleeting, and "I may never get here again, so what is important to me to see because I may never get here again". I'm sure you will make fantastic memories of being able to finally see it.

We are doing a cross-country train trip in July 2022. Another "trip of a lifetime". ☺ In looking for fares, trying to keep costs down, and hearing from the great people on this site, after finally deciding the route, I just booked the tickets. From what I hear, you cannot depend on fares dropping, or sales at a particular time. And when I started to see a particular leg of our journey becoming less available, I was determined to get tickets. So I booked it. I'll keep an eye out to see if fares drop significantly and then call and see if I can get some reimbursement, who knows. But from now until July........ I can DREAM!!


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## JP1822 (Jan 3, 2022)

My opinion, for what it is worth:

California Zephyr works either way, but if doing a "circle trip" - I'd go _WEST_ on CA Zephyr or Southwest Chief, then _NORTH_ on Coast Starlight, and then _EAST_ on Portland section of the Builder!

Coast Starlight - prefer northbound as you get the Ocean running in southern CA in daylight and over the Cascades in daylight.

Empire Builder has best scenery if going EAST. You get to see more of Glacier National Park and scenery over the mountains in daylight. In summer eastbound out of Portland (Baby Builder #28) still gives good light in the Columbia River Gorge till nearly 7-8pm!


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## KatCora (Feb 20, 2022)

Hello! I've read and read but I just cannot seem to get to the bottom of this. I snagged an Empire Builder roundtrip Family Bedroom from PDX to CHI in Aug 2022. I have time to cancel, so I reserved it with the intention of checking prices and flexing dates a tad, if I can find a better deal. The total price is approx $2200 round trip. $1100 each way for two people. I've seen so many posts that suggest **two Roomettes** across from each other are almost always less expensive. I've been on the Amtack site off- and on- for weeks, refreshing, changing travel days, etc. to see if prices change and they don't much. I have also never seen two Roomettes in a lower bucket/price versus a FB. Is that still true, you think? Two Roomettes could be less expensive or similar to a Family bedroom? I'd prefer two Roomettes due to the views and location on the train, however, two Roomettes round-trip are approx. $4000+. Perhaps this is a myth or just not occurring over the past several months.  Also, does anyone know if $2200 for a FB round trip in Aug 2022 is even a good deal? I tried to find the bucket and price info. and I am not sure.


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## Maglev (Feb 20, 2022)

Hi Kat!

$2200 roundtrip is a good deal for the Family Bedroom. If you keep watching, you might see two Roomettes for a lower fare, but August is peak travel season. I have found bargains in off-peak times, while what tends to happen in peak periods is that trains sell out completely. 

One note on the Family Bedroom: it only has one outlet, in a very inconvenient location. A power strip with a straight plug and a ten-foot cord is very useful. Here's a link to the product I used:



https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08N4BGV2F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 20, 2022)

KatCora said:


> Hello! I've read and read but I just cannot seem to get to the bottom of this. I snagged an Empire Builder roundtrip Family Bedroom from PDX to CHI in Aug 2022. I have time to cancel, so I reserved it with the intention of checking prices and flexing dates a tad, if I can find a better deal. The total price is approx $2200 round trip. $1100 each way for two people. I've seen so many posts that suggest **two Roomettes** across from each other are almost always less expensive. I've been on the Amtack site off- and on- for weeks, refreshing, changing travel days, etc. to see if price change and they don't much. I have also never seen two Roomettes in a lower bucket/price versus a FB. Is that still true, you think? Two Roomettes could be less expensive or similar to a Family bedroom? I'd prefer two Roomettes due to the views and location on the train, however, two Roomettes round-trip are approx. $4000+. Perhaps this is a myth or just not occurring over the past several months.  Also, does anyone know if $2200 for a FB round trip in Aug 2022 is even a good deal? I tried to find the bucket and price info. and I am not sure.


Just curious. Are you looking for two roomettes because neither of you can sleep in the upper bunk (maybe can't climb the steps to it)?


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## KatCora (Feb 20, 2022)

Maglev said:


> Hi Kat!
> 
> $2200 roundtrip is a good deal for the Family Bedroom. If you keep watching, you might see two Roomettes for a lower fare, but August is peak travel season. I have found bargains in off-peak times, while what tends to happen in peak periods is that trains sell out completely.
> 
> ...


Ohh! Thanks for the tip. I'll pack a power cord for sure. I also read that the windows are not as large but I love that there are two! One on each side so decided to go with the FB. We can enjoy views elsewhere in the trains, too. Thanks also for confirming that $2200 roundtrip is a decent price. I felt like it was since as you mentioned, it is peak travel time. But I wasn't sure. Looks like the "2-Roomette-hack" may not be applicable during peak travel. ;-)


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## KatCora (Feb 20, 2022)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Just curious. Are you looking for two roomettes because neither of you can sleep in the upper bunk (maybe can't climb the steps to it)?


Thanks for asking. We can climb! But I liked the idea of (private) access to windows on each side of the train so decided on the FB. Also, I've read that Roomettes are very cramped for two people. I get tho' there are disadvantages to the Family bedroom too (smaller windows, downstairs views). I'll take any tips! I am traveling w a 16-year-old. It was a tough choice btw, between the FB versus one roomette. If two roomettes were close to the price of a FB, I would have booked that. FB is less expensive too than one roomette, which I found odd but I guess it makes sense now that I've read a zillion posts. ha!


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## Maglev (Feb 20, 2022)

I love the Family Bedroom! It has plenty of floor space even when the lower berth is down. I don't think there's much difference in the quality of the views from downstairs, and it's nice to be close to the luggage rack, exterior door, three toilets, and the shower.

If I am looking for a lower fare or an upgrade, I check every day. It only take a couple minutes, and it can be worth thousands of dollars in savings!


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## KatCora (Feb 20, 2022)

Oh, great. Thanks for the confirmation about the FB re views and location relative to the door, bathrooms, etc. I did consider some of that when I selected it but more confirmation/opinion is helpful. Oh, one more thing--do fares change _throughout the day_, presumably? I often check several times a day and I'm not sure if that is just obsessive or worth it. Thanks so much.



Maglev said:


> I love the Family Bedroom! It has plenty of floor space even when the lower berth is down. I don't think there's much difference in the quality of the views from downstairs, and it's nice to be close to the luggage rack, exterior door, three toilets, and the shower.
> 
> If I am looking for a lower fare or an upgrade, I check every day. It only take a couple minutes, and it can be worth thousands of dollars in savings!


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## Maglev (Feb 20, 2022)

I think bargains are found when somebody cancels a room, and this can happen at any time. So go ahead and check as often as you like (although the system might have a frequency lockout feature). I think it's unlikely you'd find TWO Roomettes at a low price, but I consider a Bedroom an upgrade and would go for that if one came along at a good price.

One other tip about the Family Bedroom--you can clean your windows on the outside. I use rags (from home) and water; some people go as far as bringing a squeegee and Windex. You can clean one side when you get on in Portland, and possibly the other side at Wishram, Pasco, Spokane, or Whitefish to catch the scenery of the Rockies through clean windows.


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## KatCora (Feb 20, 2022)

Maglev said:


> I think bargains are found when somebody cancels a room, and this can happen at any time. So go ahead and check as often as you like (although the system might have a frequency lockout feature). I think it's unlikely you'd find TWO Roomettes at a low price, but I consider a Bedroom an upgrade and would go for that if one came along at a good price.
> 
> One other tip about the Family Bedroom--you can clean your windows on the outside. I use rags (from home) and water; some people go as far as bringing a squeegee and Windex. You can clean one side when you get on in Portland, and possibly the other side at Wishram, Pasco, Spokane, or Whitefish to catch the scenery of the Rockies through clean windows.


Yes. Make sense for sure and thanks. Bedrooms are $2600+ one way! yikes. But if that changes then I will swoop it up!


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## Keith1951 (Feb 20, 2022)

About 11 months out from our trip coming up this April we found a bedroom on the CZ from CHI to EMY for $1290. From what I'm seeing now that seems to be a good deal. Now I'm worried I may lose it because I see trips being cancelled. I hope they don't take it away just to sell it at a higher price.


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## joelkfla (Feb 20, 2022)

I think the idea of getting 2 Roomettes is usually put forward as an alternative to a Bedroom more than a Family Bedroom. As you've seen, Bedrooms tend to be more expensive. Most likely that's because Bedrooms have private baths, while the Family Bedroom does not.


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## Ryan (Feb 20, 2022)

Keith1951 said:


> I may lose it because I see trips being cancelled. I hope they don't take it away just to sell it at a higher price.


This doesn't happen. Rest easy.


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## KatCora (Feb 23, 2022)

Does anyone want to chime in on riding the Empire Builder westbound versus eastbound? I may take a flight one-way and train the other. At this point planning to take the train eastbound (PDX to CHI) and fly back westbound. Are the views due to daylight "better" one way versus the other? Thanks!


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## jis (Feb 23, 2022)

I personally prefer Eastbound - more daylight hours at spectacular scenery in my experience.


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## mgkeihl (Feb 23, 2022)

I went round trip in April and definitely eastbound! I was lucky to get opposite views but coming back we got a lot more daytime in the mountains!


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## Maglev (Feb 23, 2022)

Going east, the Rocky Mountains and MIssissippi River are in daylight. Depending on the time of year you're traveling, the Columbia River Gorge may be in darkness going east, but is after sunrise going west.


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## Willbridge (Feb 23, 2022)

KatCora said:


> Does anyone want to chime in on riding the Empire Builder westbound versus eastbound? I may take a flight one-way and train the other. At this point planning to take the train eastbound (PDX to CHI) and fly back westbound. Are the views due to daylight "better" one way versus the other? Thanks!


If you can read the fine print in the on-line output, the 1958 SP&S North Bank timetable below shows some of the things that you might see. And it will show you where something is now under water in a dam pool at Stevenson. The all-stops _Columbia Mail _train schedule will give you a general idea of how many minutes between each attraction.

I've traveled both directions a number of times, but I think the consensus is that westbound is best. If Train 27 runs tolerably late, you'll see more. Train 28 usually starts out on time, but if it is held for the connection from Train 14, then the scenic views will be curtailed.

Either way, the sun will be behind you, as in this photo from Train 28.


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## Siegmund (Feb 24, 2022)

When the days are short, I would say east is better for Glacier Park, west better for Cascades(7) or Columbia River Gorge(27). In summer, you can see good things both ways.

If you're a real diehard for scenery.... book your trip for _the full moon_, and keep your nose glued to the window all night for the segment between Spokane and Whitefish in the dark. On a clear night, the ride along the Kootenai River is really a fine show, especially from the Portland sleeper.


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## Kevinx244974 (Feb 25, 2022)

Hello everybody!

I’m wondering if you had to share, what do you think is the perfect Amtrak itinerary for an international traveler across the USA ?

To precise, I would like to get the best balance between wonderful cities, most scenic views on train from 2 to 3 weeks of holidays in total, and get the most of American landscapes .

I really cannot decide myself, too much options ahaha!

Thank you all of you in advance for your aswers!


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Feb 25, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello everybody!
> 
> I’m wondering if you had to share, what do you think is the perfect Amtrak itinerary for an international traveler across the USA ?
> 
> ...


You basically can't go wrong especially on the trains west of Chicago. I'm sure there will be a lot of different opinions. I would suggest something like (assuming a start from New York)
Lake Shore Limited to Chicago. Spend a day or two there. Be sure to take one of the architectural boat tours (weather permitting).
California Zephyr to Sacramento. Spend a day there.
Coast Starlight to Los Angeles and some time in the city of Angels
Maybe a side trip along the coast to San Diego?
Southwest Chief back to Chicago. Maybe stop off in Flagstaff and see the Grand Canyon?
A different route back to NYC maybe the Cardinal then NEC back to New York.

Another possibility is to return via the Sunset to New Orleans a wonderful unique city, then either CONO to Chicago or Crescent to New York to see the Southeast. Eastern trains not so good unfortunately.


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## Kevinx244974 (Feb 25, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> You basically can't go wrong especially on the trains west of Chicago. I'm sure there will be a lot of different opinions. I would suggest something like (assuming a start from New York)
> Lake Shore Limited to Chicago. Spend a day or two there. Be sure to take one of the architectural boat tours (weather permitting).
> California Zephyr to Sacramento. Spend a day there.
> Coast Starlight to Los Angeles and some time in the city of Angels
> ...



Thank you a lot!!

I saw that I could miss a big part of the Ocean on the Coast Starlight going southbound, there is a solution to avoid this?

What are the main pro's and co's between Southwest Chief and Sunset Limited? I saw that there is a Lamy stop on the Southwest Chief limited that make a connection to Santa Fe but the Southwest chief seem very special and would make me discovering the New Orleans which is pretty isolated from the rest, so I would probably never been there otherwise.


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## Kevinx244974 (Feb 25, 2022)

I'm also questioning myself if it exist some Amtrak stations close to a scenic national park that you can access by a tour or by bus ?


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## jis (Feb 25, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> I'm also questioning myself if it exist some Amtrak stations close to a scenic national park that you can access by a tour or by bus ?


The most well known rail accessible national park with its own station(s) is the Glacier National Park reached by the Empire Builder train. The stations are East Glacier and West Glacier (Belton).


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## Willbridge (Feb 25, 2022)

jis said:


> The most well known rail accessible national park with its own station(s) is the Glacier National Park reached by the Empire Builder train. The stations are East Glacier and West Glacier (Belton).


Although it's a bus connection, Yosemite National Park is well-served by Amtrak. When I was working on tours for Japanese groups it was a favorite for them. Here's my suggested routing for the West, combining good trains and great scenery:

Chicago -- Sacramento -- Yosemite -- Los Angeles -- Portland -- Chicago.

That's the routing and then there are choices of where to stop over that depend on the traveler's interests. Some popular stopovers at decent times of day in addition to the points listed above include Denver, Glenwood Springs, Reno, Santa Barbara, San Jose, Klamath Falls (for Crater Lake or Warm Springs Resort), East Glacier, Wolf Point, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Wisconsin Dells. San Jose has suburban train connections for day trips into San Francisco. An alternative is Oakland (Jack London Square) for ferry connections for day trips into San Francisco.


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## KatCora (Feb 25, 2022)

jis said:


> I personally prefer Eastbound - more daylight hours at spectacular scenery in my experience.


TY! I retained the eastbound.


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## KatCora (Feb 25, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> If you can read the fine print in the on-line output, the 1958 SP&S North Bank timetable below shows some of the things that you might see. And it will show you where something is now under water in a dam pool at Stevenson. The all-stops _Columbia Mail _train schedule will give you a general idea of how many minutes between each attraction.
> 
> I've traveled both directions a number of times, but I think the consensus is that westbound is best. If Train 27 runs tolerably late, you'll see more. Train 28 usually starts out on time, but if it is held for the connection from Train 14, then the scenic views will be curtailed.
> 
> ...


Thank for the detailed information! Good stuff!


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## CaptPete 43 (Feb 26, 2022)

consider stopping in Salt Lake City on the California Zephyr and renting a car. See attached file.


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## CaptPete 43 (Feb 26, 2022)

I missed stating this is a way to see some outstanding National Parks.
1 minute ago
consider stopping in Salt Lake City on the California Zephyr and renting a car. See attached file.


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## Kevinx244974 (Feb 26, 2022)

CaptPete 43 said:


> consider stopping in Salt Lake City on the California Zephyr and renting a car. See attached file.



This seem incredible! Unfortunately I don't have a driving license because I don't need a car in my french city


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## CaptPete 43 (Feb 26, 2022)

Perhaps you should consider getting a drivers license in the future. Although rail travel is wonderful, there are just some places that need a motor vehicle, particularly in USA, Canada, Australia, et al.


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## jis (Feb 26, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> This seem incredible! Unfortunately I don't have a driving license because I don't need a car in my french city


You should consider looking for motor/bus tours that operate out of SLC to the various parks possibly, though who knows what the pandemic/post-pandemic situation is at present? Or strike a deal with an adventurous Uber driver or some such. While it is definitely much easier to achieve if you have a driver's license, you don't have to have one. When I traveled across the state while I was a graduate student I did not know how to drive at all, let alone having a license. Still I managed to hit many of the parks using various means. 

I learned to drive and got a license several years later just before I hit the job market after finishing my Ph. D. In the US unfortunately they run public transit, if they do so at all, in the suburbs, exurbs or rural areas mostly so that they can tick mark the line that says "public transit". Very often they are remarkably inconvenient to use.


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## Lonnie (Feb 26, 2022)

KatCora said:


> Hello! I've read and read but I just cannot seem to get to the bottom of this. I snagged an Empire Builder roundtrip Family Bedroom from PDX to CHI in Aug 2022. I have time to cancel, so I reserved it with the intention of checking prices and flexing dates a tad, if I can find a better deal. The total price is approx $2200 round trip. $1100 each way for two people. I've seen so many posts that suggest **two Roomettes** across from each other are almost always less expensive. I've been on the Amtack site off- and on- for weeks, refreshing, changing travel days, etc. to see if prices change and they don't much. I have also never seen two Roomettes in a lower bucket/price versus a FB. Is that still true, you think? Two Roomettes could be less expensive or similar to a Family bedroom? I'd prefer two Roomettes due to the views and location on the train, however, two Roomettes round-trip are approx. $4000+. Perhaps this is a myth or just not occurring over the past several months.  Also, does anyone know if $2200 for a FB round trip in Aug 2022 is even a good deal? I tried to find the bucket and price info. and I am not sure.


I'm not sure why you would need two roomettes unless there are two of you and one or both are disabled. My husband and I are quite comfortable in one roomette. If one of you doesn't mind climbing up to and down from the upper berth, and if you're accustomed to the overall smaller spaces that make Europe such a joy to visit, you should do fine with one roomette. Those bedrooms are expensive!


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## Lonnie (Feb 26, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thank you a lot!!
> 
> I saw that I could miss a big part of the Ocean on the Coast Starlight going southbound, there is a solution to avoid this?
> 
> What are the main pro's and co's between Southwest Chief and Sunset Limited? I saw that there is a Lamy stop on the Southwest Chief limited that make a connection to Santa Fe but the Southwest chief seem very special and would make me discovering the New Orleans which is pretty isolated from the rest, so I would probably never been there otherwise.


Soon we'll be taking the Southwest Chief to Lamy, connecting to and from Santa Fe by the bus you can order in the Amtrak app. After three nights in Santa Fe, we'll get back on the Southwest Chief and get off at Flagstaff, spend a night there, use Groome Transportation (reserve at least a few days in advance) to go to the Grand Canyon where we'll spend a night in one of the hotels there. Then the Groome bus back to Flagstaff, one more night there at the Monte Vista hotel (very near the station), and back onto the Southwest Chief to Los Angeles. While we might have stayed to see LA, we're opting for more time with family in San Francisco. All that to say: you can see Santa Fe and the Grand Canyon without a car!


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## Hepcat66 (Feb 26, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> I'm not sure why you would need two roomettes unless there are two of you and one or both are disabled. My husband and I are quite comfortable in one roomette. If one of you doesn't mind climbing up to and down from the upper berth, and if you're accustomed to the overall smaller spaces that make Europe such a joy to visit, you should do fine with one roomette. Those bedrooms are expensive!


We too, just bought tickets on the EB to go from Portland, OR to Wisconsin Dells in August. Cost was $2529.20 (retired) plus $120.14 for the travel insurance. That includes the roomette. Not sure how the upgrades work but it sounds like it can be done practically up to departure time. Quite excited about this trip as it's been a few years since I've been on an LD train, and my better half was a RR brat (dad worked for UP).


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## Northwestern (Feb 26, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello everyone ! I'm french so firstly, forgive me for my mistakes, I'm currently planning a cross country trip accros the USA from Est coast to West coast for spring/summer 2022.
> 
> I planned to start from NYC and then take the Cardinal or Lake Shore Limited (which one is the best ?) amtrak train to Chicago, then, take the California Zephyr to San Francisco.
> 
> ...


**************************************************************************
I would say option 2 would by my favorite. You would be able to take two of the most scenic routes that Amtrak offers. Up to Klamath Falls and through the lower Cascade Mountains to Eugene. The beautiful route into Glacier Park on the Empire Builder, in the early morning.

I can see two concerns, however, with any cross country Amtrak trip. I don't know about you, but I would never consider coach for Amtrak long distance travel. However, the sleepers are expensive. For example, this summer I will be travelling on the C. Starlight , round trip from the Bay Area to Seattle and back. I booked a bedroom that will run my at least $ 2 K. A roomette might be $ 1200 to $ 1400 as a guess.

It looks like you will be on at least 4 LD Amtak trains, so the tab will add up. The other concern is the food aboard. I really hope Amtrak gets back to hot and adequate meals rather than cold box meal offering.

Another cross country trip which would be fun if the proposed Detroit to Toronto extension ever comes about. I'm thinking of the Zephyr to Chicago, Detroit, and Toronto. Then the Canadian to Vancouver, a Cascade trip to Seattle, then the Coast Starlight back to the Bay Area. I would need a signature loan, from my bank, for that one.
Richard


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## dwebarts (Feb 26, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> All that to say: you can see Santa Fe and the Grand Canyon without a car!


I lived in Santa Fe without a car for nine years. The buses don't go everywhere and tend to only run hourly, but they do work.

It helps that I like to walk more than most Americans. You'd need to get a ride to go into the mountains or to Ten Thousand Waves (it's great). Walking is your best bet for the downtown area, if able. Four-hundred year old cities in the US aren't great for sidewalk accessibility, though it's better than some new suburban towns in auto-crazed America. Santa Fe was laid-out by Spanish Dons, so many streets are better suited for traveling on horseback, though paved.


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## Kevinx244974 (Feb 27, 2022)

Thanks again all of you!

I'm questionning myself how to get the most of the Pacific Coast southbound, what do you think about taking the CS from San Francisco to Santa Barbara, with the delay of time in summer it should be just the beginning of the night. Passing a day in Santa Babara, seem to be very walkable and typical of California and then, the day after, take the Pacific Surfliner to Los Angeles departing at 8.50 am to see all the rest of the coast until Oxnard?


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## KatCora (Feb 27, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> I'm not sure why you would need two roomettes unless there are two of you and one or both are disabled. My husband and I are quite comfortable in one roomette. If one of you doesn't mind climbing up to and down from the upper berth, and if you're accustomed to the overall smaller spaces that make Europe such a joy to visit, you should do fine with one roomette. Those bedrooms are expensive!


Thanks! Good information. I appreciate it.


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## Sidney (Feb 27, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thanks again all of you!
> 
> I'm questionning myself how to get the most of the Pacific Coast southbound, what do you think about taking the CS from San Francisco to Santa Barbara, with the delay of time in summer it should be just the beginning of the night. Passing a day in Santa Babara, seem to be very walkable and typical of California and then, the day after, take the Pacific Surfliner to Los Angeles departing at 8.50 am to see all the rest of the coast until Oxnard?


Santa Barbara is a great town to walk in. The Amtrak station is close to downtown and the beach.


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## Lonnie (Feb 27, 2022)

dwebarts said:


> I lived in Santa Fe without a car for nine years. The buses don't go everywhere and tend to only run hourly, but they do work.
> 
> It helps that I like to walk more than most Americans. You'd need to get a ride to go into the mountains or to Ten Thousand Waves (it's great). Walking is your best bet for the downtown area, if able. Four-hundred year old cities in the US aren't great for sidewalk accessibility, though it's better than some new suburban towns in auto-crazed America. Santa Fe was laid-out by Spanish Dons, so many streets are better suited for traveling on horseback, though paved.


In our little New England town, hubby and I are known as The People Who Walk. We love the meandering streets, odd dead-ends, and triangular parks in this part of the country, laid out when waterways were the highways and streets started out as paths. We're very close to Northampton MA, founded in 1654. Really looking forward to walking around Santa Fe!


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## dwebarts (Feb 27, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> In our little New England town, hubby and I are known as The People Who Walk. We love the meandering streets, odd dead-ends, and triangular parks in this part of the country, laid out when waterways were the highways and streets started out as paths. We're very close to Northampton MA, founded in 1654. Really looking forward to walking around Santa Fe!


Make sure you hydrate before you walk around since you're coming from a lowish altitude. The high desert can be taxing, even for the fit, if they don't take time to adjust to it. Carrying a water bottle is prudent.


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## BalmyZephyr (Feb 27, 2022)

dwebarts said:


> Make sure you hydrate before you walk around since you're coming from a lowish altitude. The high desert can be taxing, even for the fit, if they don't take time to adjust to it. Carrying a water bottle is prudent.



This is another benefit of LD rail vs flying. You adjust to the altitude more gradually. If you can, get off at every possible "smoke stop" and walk around briskly to acclimate to the thin air as you go up. Personally, I feel even 3000 feet and have to take it easy for awhile. And yes, water.


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## BalmyZephyr (Feb 27, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> Soon we'll be taking the Southwest Chief to Lamy, connecting to and from Santa Fe by the bus you can order in the Amtrak app. After three nights in Santa Fe, we'll get back on the Southwest Chief and get off at Flagstaff,



Or get off in ABQ and take the Rail Runner round trip to Santa Fe. Or Lamy-bus one way and RR to ABQ after your Santa Fe stay. It is a cool train!


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## Kevinx244974 (Jun 26, 2022)

Hello Everybody!

I'm coming back with a new itinerary:
Washington (1 to 2 days) -> New Orleans (2 to 3 days)
New Orleans -> Los Angeles (2 days there) on the Sunset Limited
Los Angeles -> Santa Barbara for a day-> Los Angeles, with the Pacific Surfliner to get the wonderful view of the Pacific.
Los Angeles -> La Junta, most scenic part of the Southwest Chief I think
La Junta -> bus correspondance to Denver (1 day) to take back the California Zephyr for the best view of it!
Denver -> San Francisco (2 to 3 days)

I would like that it will be between 2 to 3 weeks overall, with a Amtrak rail pass all these costs are lot reducing, what's your opinion for this itinerary taking into account that I'm european and coming to see what I would not find in France?

I thought with this discovering New Orleans, the south west desert of Texas, New Mexico, the mexican border, the desert part from the Southwest Chief and the best part of the California Zephyr!

Thank you by advance!


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## caravanman (Jun 26, 2022)

The main thing to look out for with the rail pass is that each time you board a new "vehicle" it counts as a "segment" of the pass.

For example, a trip from Denver to Emeryville on the Zephyr is one segment. If you continue on into San Francisco itself by Amtrak bus, that uses two segments.

You do need to make reservations in advance, you can't just turn up and board any train.

I have used the older type pass, and covered over 12,000 Amtrak miles in 15 days!


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## Kevinx244974 (Jun 26, 2022)

Thanks a lot for this precision that I didn't thought! I'm currently on 5 segments taking into account the buses.


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## Rambling Robert (Jun 26, 2022)

Be familiar with YouTube - the Viewliner and Superliner seats operation is explained. Some seats the mechanism is hard to work or broke. They’re good seats.


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## Willbridge (Jun 26, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Hello Everybody!
> 
> I'm coming back with a new itinerary:
> Washington (1 to 2 days) -> New Orleans (2 to 3 days)
> ...


One complication:

While it is possible to take a bus from La Junta to Denver, it is very time consuming and requires an overnight in La Junta. Greyhound does not stop in La Junta. The state-sponsored bus service does not stop at the Amtrak station, but does stop at the senior citizens' center nearby.








Routes & Maps | Bustang


Check the bus schedules, fares, maps, and more. Click to find information about the routes of Bustang and a map of the various lines and services offered.




ridebustang.com





One alternative is to take Train 4 from Los Angeles to Raton, spend a night there, then take Greyhound to Denver. Raton has an intermodal station on the edge of its business district. That Greyhound is not an Amtrak Thruway bus.

An alternative that might work well with the rail pass rules would be to connect from Train 4 to Train 5 in Galesburg, Illinois. I have visited both Raton and Galesburg and they are interesting towns.


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## Kevinx244974 (Jun 27, 2022)

Willbridge said:


> One complication:
> 
> While it is possible to take a bus from La Junta to Denver, it is very time consuming and requires an overnight in La Junta. Greyhound does not stop in La Junta. The state-sponsored bus service does not stop at the Amtrak station, but does stop at the senior citizens' center nearby.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot!

I checked on the website Rome2Rio and I found a direct bus line from Raton to Denver in 5 hours, I think that's the one you're talking about!


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## Willbridge (Jun 27, 2022)

Kevinx244974 said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> I checked on the website Rome2Rio and I found a direct bus line from Raton to Denver in 5 hours, I think that's the one you're talking about!


Yes, it's Greyhound from Raton at 1:15 p.m., due into Denver Union Station at 6:15 p.m. I notice that it is sold out on some days, so buying a ticket in advance on greyhound.com would be a good idea. The bus is coming through from Albuquerque.

In Raton, Greyhound stops curbside at the Amtrak station. There is no agent, but the restrooms are open at train times and there are nearby restaurants. There's good scenery along the way into the suburbs of Denver.




Business district seen from the train station.




Down the street from the train station, I waited here once.


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