# Can You Buy Two Seats For Yourself?



## seat38a (Jun 24, 2014)

When I'm on the train, It is usually for business so space is important. Even business class can get crowed and sold out on some days of the week. Airlines allow you to do this but does Amtrak allow you to book two seats for yourself if I need the seat next to me empty so I can spread out my computer and documents and work? There is no guarantee that I will get two seats to myself, but say if I was originating at the beginning station so I can grab two seats together. The conductors say, one ticket one seat, so two tickets two seats?


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## the_traveler (Jun 24, 2014)

Yes and yes.


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## amamba (Jun 24, 2014)

Others have specifically called Amtrak and they said that they can't guarantee that you will be able to get two seats. That being said if you are boarding at the originating station I think it's worth a shot.


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## seat38a (Jun 24, 2014)

amamba said:


> Others have specifically called Amtrak and they said that they can't guarantee that you will be able to get two seats. That being said if you are boarding at the originating station I think it's worth a shot.


Thanks for the info! More worried that they would cancel one of the reservation as a "impossible" itinerary.


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## guest (Jun 24, 2014)

Let me throw a question out regarding this. So, you purchase two tickets for yourself. What would happen if you didn't have both tickets scanned; would that second 'seat' now be considered unsold, and could potentially be sold on down the line?


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## the_traveler (Jun 24, 2014)

Q#1) I would not make both reservations for "John Jones". And I would not try to earn AGR points for both. I would make one for"John Jones" and the other for "Jim Smith".

Q#2) I do believe so. I would make sure both are scanned.


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## Silver Star rider (Jun 24, 2014)

I would think you pay for both tickets using the same name?? So like this there would be no question you bought and paid for both tickets??

Bruce-SSR


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 24, 2014)

The fact that Amtrak installs no divider to keep a potentially creepy seatmate from cuddling up to you at night is a problem that would be easily solved by selling two seats to one person so that you could maintain some dignity when traveling alone (or in odd numbers) in coach. Unfortunately for whatever reason Amtrak does not appear to be setup and the staff do not appear to be properly trained to handle this sort of request quietly and peacefully. Some folks have indicated that suffering from (or claiming to suffer from) a physical disability that somehow benefits from purchasing a second seat can sometimes get the staff off your back, but I would not be terribly surprised to see a second purchased seat forcibly confiscated and given to another passenger no matter what sort of paperwork you had.


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## Anderson (Jun 25, 2014)

Just a general point, but at least on LD trains there are going to be cases where grabbing a room is going to be a _far_ more effective option. Given the regrettable lack of any private space for sale on shorter-distance trains, however...yeah, this is probably the best option.

A serious question: I know there has been mention of staff possibly confiscating a second seat even with two valid tickets in hand. What would one's recourse be in the event that the second seat was confiscated? i.e. Could one demand a refund for the second seat?


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## EB_OBS (Jun 25, 2014)

You can buy two seats.

The only reason the second seat would or should be "confiscated" is if the train is oversold and there are standees. In this case you would indeed be entitled to a refund.

As already mentioned, the staff can and will be inconsistently trained on this. Overall it's very rare someone buys two seats for oneself. A crew member could go years and never encounter this.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2014)

seat38a said:


> Airlines allow you to do this but does Amtrak allow you to book two seats for yourself if I need the seat next to me empty so I can spread out my computer and documents and work?


Airlines assign seats. So you can get two seats next to each other.

Amtrak doesn't assign seats. So, you can buy two tickets, but there is no guarantee that both seats will be together, just like if two people bought two seats. Would one seat in one car, and the second seat in another car, really help you spread out?


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## fillyjonk (Jun 25, 2014)

Yeah, I'm guessing that with a nearly-full LD train, in a middle-of-the-night stop, someone gets on and needs a seat, they're not going to be exactly sympathetic to your, "But I bought TWO seats" plea. Perhaps even the conductors would not be sympathetic.

But I also agree with the person who pointed out "no divider allows for creepers to do stuff in the middle of the night you might not want them to try." Granted, a well-placed poke in the ribs (or similar) might put the person off, still, ick.


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## SarahZ (Jun 25, 2014)

It's not just because of the random creeper either. I'm sure some heavyset people would feel more comfortable having that extra space. At my heaviest, my thigh always touched the other person's, and I felt bad. Plus, there's that "blecch... I don't want to be this close to a stranger..." feeling, and I'm sure they felt the same way about me. I tried to scrunch myself as much as possible and went to the lounge a lot, but one can only scrunch-and-hide for so many hours.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 25, 2014)

Buy two seats. In my case those seats would be reserved to Mr. Green Maned Lion and Mr. Samsonite Lion. And if they argue, you say: Listen, bub, my bag paid for that seat and it's gonna stay in that seat.


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## Rule G (Jun 25, 2014)

Your best bet would be to purchase a room.

Amtrak's Service Standards Manual says that a passenger cannot buy two seats to avoid having someone sit next to them.


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## the_traveler (Jun 25, 2014)

However, the OP question was regarding the Surfliner (business class specifically). A sleeping room is not available on the Surfliner, so how would purchasing a room even be possible? :huh:


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## amamba (Jun 25, 2014)

Rule G said:


> Your best bet would be to purchase a room.
> 
> Amtrak's Service Standards Manual says that a passenger cannot buy two seats to avoid having someone sit next to them.


Can you point out where in the blue book it says this? That might be helpful for everyone.

I distinctly remember us having this conversation on this board before, someone called 1800USARAIL and was told it couldn't be done and they would not be allowed to book two tickets in one name. That is I think why others are suggesting you use a different name for the second ticket.

I think knowing what type of train someone is attempting this on might be helpful. Long distance, corridor, NEC, acela, etc?


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## SarahZ (Jun 25, 2014)

It's really a shame Amtrak doesn't allow this. It doesn't take revenue away.

When I booked two seats with Southwest, I used "Sarah Z" for the first seat and then "Sarah XS Z" for the second, per their instructions. That way, both seats were in my name, with the fake middle initials "XS" indicating it was my extra seat.


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## William W. (Jun 25, 2014)

Just buy a roomette. It would only be a bit more than getting a double rail fare, and comes with a lot better service. For SD trains, get a business class seat. Even if it is full, most of the people in business class SHOULD have a concept of personal space and should be professional towards you.


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## Rule G (Jun 25, 2014)

amamba said:


> Rule G said:
> 
> 
> > Your best bet would be to purchase a room.
> ...


I dont have access to the book at this moment.

I will look it up when I get a chance.


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## amamba (Jun 25, 2014)

Thank you RuleG. I tried to look at the old version (version 6) up on government attic and there is a space in the "standee" section that says make sure each passenger only occupies one seat, but I didn't see anything that specifically forbade buying two tickets for two seats. However I know this version is outdated.


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## VentureForth (Jun 25, 2014)

the_traveler said:


> Yes and yes.


 Quite a bold answer, considering that it appears that the actual rulebook may state otherwise.


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## Ryan (Jun 25, 2014)

The word "two" appears a LOT in the blue book.

Anyhow, here's what it has to say:



> A passenger who requires two seats due to a
> 
> disability, including obesity caused by a disability,
> 
> ...


Short version: Need two seats because of disability? One fare, but you get two seats. Need two seats because of your weight? You can have two seats, but you'll have to pay for them both. Skinny and antisocial? Tough. You'll sit in one seat and you'll like it.


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## seat38a (Jun 25, 2014)

William W. said:


> Just buy a roomette. It would only be a bit more than getting a double rail fare, and comes with a lot better service. For SD trains, get a business class seat. Even if it is full, most of the people in business class SHOULD have a concept of personal space and should be professional towards you.


There are no roomettes on the Surfliner corridor trains.


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## Ryan (Jun 25, 2014)

Reading Comprehension Fail.



seat38a said:


> When I'm on the train, It is usually for business so space is important. *Even business class can get crowed and sold out on some days of the week*. Airlines allow you to do this but does Amtrak allow you to book two seats for yourself if* I need the seat next to me empty so I can spread out my computer and documents and work?* There is no guarantee that I will get two seats to myself, but say if I was originating at the beginning station so I can grab two seats together. The conductors say, one ticket one seat, so two tickets two seats?


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## amamba (Jun 25, 2014)

RyanS said:


> The word "two" appears a LOT in the blue book.
> 
> Anyhow, here's what it has to say:
> 
> ...


Ryan, can you tell us what section this is from so I know where to find it in the future? Thank you so much. I feel like it can help all of us to become educated about actual amtrak policies rather than just blindly speculating on them.


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## amamba (Jun 25, 2014)

How does Amtrak regulate if someone is obese because of a disability? That is an interesting statement.


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## Ryan (Jun 25, 2014)

It's on 8-86 of the Version 7.

Chapter 8, Part J "Service Classes", Section 4 "Coach", c), d) and e). That should get you there if you have another version.


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## caravanman (Jun 25, 2014)

Could be interesting if you get asked to show I.D. for that false name!

I don't really understand why anyone would need to have so much work related stuff open at one time to need two seats... it is a TRAIN, not a mobile office desk!

Folk should just try to get on with their fellow passengers, IMHO, being sociable is partly what trains are all about... I don't see the point in wanting an isolated ride if you are a train fan?

Ed


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## Ispolkom (Jun 25, 2014)

RyanS said:


> The word "two" appears a LOT in the blue book.
> 
> Anyhow, here's what it has to say:
> 
> ...


Wow great cite to chapter and verse!


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## tonys96 (Jun 25, 2014)

Almost all airlines require a passenger to buy two seats if they are unable to lower their armrests and sufficiently buckle and fasten their seat belts. The seats generally range from 17 to 19 inches wide. Amtrak seats are generally 21 to 23 inches wide. 

My opinion? If someone cannot fit into a large (compared to airline) seat without infringing on his/her seatmate, they should buy two seats. No matter the reason. The seatmate has paid for a full seat and has a right to it.


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## supergrandmother (Jun 25, 2014)

About two years ago, I was travelling from Wash to Atl on the Crescent. Sometime around midnight, the attendant was consolidating the coach passengers into one car but there was an older woman on the front seat of our car who refused to allow someone to sit with her. She got very agitated and covered herself completely (head and feet) with a blanket so the attendant couldn't even see her. They argued for some time. Then the conductor came and attempted to make her move into just one seat to no avail. Finally he just told her to get her stuff and move to the next car or he would personally put her off the train at the next stop. She did get up and move but the attendant had to help her carry all her stuff to the next car. She just kept saying she could not have someone sitting beside her. After she left and things began to settle down, my seatmate got up to walk around and quickly came back to get his jacket and laptop. He said that woman was sitting in the next car alone so he was moving to that car, too so he could have more room to spread out over two seats. Several folks followed him so in an hour or so we were again spread over two cars. It was a real interesting evening but the point is...... if you don't want to share your seat just refuse and cover yourself with a blanket. Then perhaps you can have a whole car to yourself.


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## tonys96 (Jun 25, 2014)

supergrandmother said:


> About two years ago, I was travelling from Wash to Atl on the Crescent. Sometime around midnight, the attendant was consolidating the coach passengers into one car but there was an older woman on the front seat of our car who refused to allow someone to sit with her. She got very agitated and covered herself completely (head and feet) with a blanket so the attendant couldn't even see her. They argued for some time. Then the conductor came and attempted to make her move into just one seat to no avail. Finally he just told her to get her stuff and move to the next car or he would personally put her off the train at the next stop. She did get up and move but the attendant had to help her carry all her stuff to the next car. She just kept saying she could not have someone sitting beside her. After she left and things began to settle down, my seatmate got up to walk around and quickly came back to get his jacket and laptop. He said that woman was sitting in the next car alone so he was moving to that car, too so he could have more room to spread out over two seats. Several folks followed him so in an hour or so we were again spread over two cars. It was a real interesting evening but the point is...... if you don't want to share your seat just refuse and cover yourself with a blanket. Then perhaps you can have a whole car to yourself.


Your story reminds me of my very first Amtrak trip. About 35 years ago, my then wife and I decided to try Amtrak from DAL to SAS. When we boarded in Dal, we were directed to a nearly full coach car that had no two seats together. We asked the attendant what to do and were told the old "You get two seats, not necessarily two seats together"......so we just walked off the train, stopped the conductor and told him to get our checked bag off the train and we would fly to SAS. He asked, why? We told him what the attendant told us and he said something like "that guy is an a**hole" and put the two of us in an empty coach car, which ended up about half full after adding pax in the subsequent stops. We enjoyed the ride immensely, and I was hooked forever.

Had we not spoken to that one conductor, I would likely be among those who rail (pun intended) against Amtrak.


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## EB_OBS (Jun 25, 2014)

amamba said:


> How does Amtrak regulate if someone is obese because of a disability? That is an interesting statement.


If you request two seats for the price of one due to a disability then you must show proof of the disability. As you do anytime you ask for a discount because of a disability.


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## Silver Star rider (Jun 25, 2014)

EB_OBS said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > How does Amtrak regulate if someone is obese because of a disability? That is an interesting statement.
> ...


The American with Disabilities Act prohibits organizations for asking or even looking at Doctors notes or such. And also remember, not just talking about the topic in this subject, but not all disabilities are easy to see either.

Bruce-SSR


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## EB_OBS (Jun 25, 2014)

Silver Star rider said:


> EB_OBS said:
> 
> 
> > amamba said:
> ...



If you are asking for a financial savings because of a disability then you must show proof of the disability and and ADA does not prohibit asking for proof in this circumstance.


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## chakk (Jun 26, 2014)

I have witnessed single passengers boarding the CZ with tickets for two seats several times. The conductor or coach attendant simply put up two hat checks -- each marked for one person -- and I never saw anyone attempt to seat another person next to the person who purchased the two seats. Then again, it it had come down to there being just that one seat left on the train for coach passengers, I'm certain that the conductor would have then forced the issue (at which point I would also assume that the person could apply for a refund of the second coach seat fare that they had purchased.)


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## tonys96 (Jun 26, 2014)

chakk said:


> I have witnessed single passengers boarding the CZ with tickets for two seats several times. The conductor or coach attendant simply put up two hat checks -- each marked for one person -- and I never saw anyone attempt to seat another person next to the person who purchased the two seats. Then again, it it had come down to there being just that one seat left on the train for coach passengers, I'm certain that the conductor would have then forced the issue (at which point I would also assume that the person could apply for a refund of the second coach seat fare that they had purchased.)


That sounds fair, but according to what was posted before, it is against Amtrak rules.

Megabus charges extra for more than one bag per pax, and tell you on their site, if you want extra bags, you must buy extra tix. I suppose you could use the extra tix for seats together?????


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## jebr (Jun 26, 2014)

tonys96 said:


> chakk said:
> 
> 
> > I have witnessed single passengers boarding the CZ with tickets for two seats several times. The conductor or coach attendant simply put up two hat checks -- each marked for one person -- and I never saw anyone attempt to seat another person next to the person who purchased the two seats. Then again, it it had come down to there being just that one seat left on the train for coach passengers, I'm certain that the conductor would have then forced the issue (at which point I would also assume that the person could apply for a refund of the second coach seat fare that they had purchased.)
> ...


If you can find them, yes. I have told bus drivers before that I've purchased two tickets in order to have two seats together, and when they check all the seats to make sure people aren't hogging seats they respect my two tickets and let me hog the two seats.


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## Anderson (Jun 27, 2014)

We're going to take a brief break to get this thread back to some semblance of its original topic.

Ok, we're back after a bit of time to clean the thread and give everyone some cooling-off time. I'd ask that we try to, if not stay on topic, at least avoid horridly off-topic fights.


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## Danny M. (Jul 1, 2014)

I travel with a cello for business. I always have to buy an extra seat next to me on the plane. No way around it.

I've never had to travel with a cello on Amtrak before, but I imagine that it's basically the same. If I buy two tickets(same price), I should be able to put the cello in the seat next to me. The conductor should just scan both tickets. There is no way that I will allow the cello to be place in the overhead or anywhere else. Actually, the insurance company that underwrites the half-million-dollar policy will probably not allow me.(or cancel my policy if they find out)

As for getting a room... only if it's a room without any sort of plumbing(toilet or shower). Otherwise, I'll stay in the coach.


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