# AGR policy if sleepers turn into coach?



## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

I, along with at least two other very recent posters, am concerned about missed connections on AGR sleeper award trips. If Amtrak can't bus you to catch up with your train, it's my understanding they put you up in a hotel overnight and put you on the next day's train. However, sleepers often sell out on the most popular trains, so in that case, your sleeper award suddenly turns into coach travel. If it's an extended trip, you also miss all your other original connections, of course, as you are now a day late for all of them, so they, too, might turn into coach travel for the rest of your trip. Additionally, it's my understanding that you cannot cancel remaining segments of travel and get a points refund once travel has begun.

What is AGR's policy if that happens? Surely they don't keep all your points if you only traveled in sleepers for part of the way and coach the rest of the way? Do you still get meals at no charge in the dining car? If a sleeper is available for only a short stretch, do they let you occupy it for that period?

The trip I'm thinking of trying to do involves SIX connections to and from LD trains, so that's a bit scary. One layover (Portland, CS to EB) is very tight, and another fairly tight one (Chicago, EB to Card or CL) has a poor record of being made. The other connections are mostly 4-5 hr layovers, but I know delays of that length on LD trains aren't unheard of, either. Knowing AGR's policies would be helpful to me in deciding how to book this trip.

I understand that things beyond Amtrak's control cause missed connections, but AGR awards for extended trips in sleepers cost many, many points, and they are very difficult for me to accumulate. The thought of spending up to a week+ of "surprise" days in coach instead of the sleepers that were booked is bad enough, but to also lose all the points, not get meals, etc. would be a double whammy. Does anyone know what happens in these cases? Any ideas on how to avoid this situation? Thanks much-


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 16, 2013)

Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).


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## Rail Freak (Jun 16, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).


I dont think it's so much of wasting points as it is of ending up in the middle of a LD Trip in coach rather than a sleeper that you had reserved!!! It would definitely turn an enjoyable experience into a NIGHTMARE!!!!! :angry:


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## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2013)

I think if you're involuntary downgraded (you miss a connection and the next train has no rooms available, you will get meals included. However if you voluntarily downgrade yourself (you take the Crescent, Cardinal and CZ, but there are no rooms on the Cardinal so you chose to go coach instead), you will not get meals included on the Cardinal. Plus you will be charged for a sleeper for 2 zones, since you have a sleeper in 2 different zones.

The only way to get a voucher is to contact Customer Relations after the trip. It is very unlikely to receive points back.


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## AlanB (Jun 16, 2013)

Crescent,

It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

Rail Freak said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).
> ...


RF, you are so right! And I'm so very glad your situation turned out so well!  But this is a much longer trip, and I can't decide if counting on making six connections to and from LD trains for ten days is reasonable or foolhardy.

AB: I'm ok with taking risks on small things, but I'm less a risk taker on big things. First, I don't live near Amtrak routes, and getting enough points for this trip is very difficult for me. It will involve buying the max points for at least two years, and maybe three, so they're not free for me (and even if they were free, they are still valuable).

Of more concern, I know from experience that I won't sleep well in coach--never mind not having shower access or food should my sleeper reservations turn into coach. I can over-think things sometimes, but I think this trip warrants very careful planning. And IME, careful planning can often pay big dividends. This 10-day trip is a big deal to me, and I think reasonably so, considering the consequences of missed connections. RF put it plainer than I would have, but an unexpected week or more in coach when I'd planned on sleepers would be close to a nightmare after several days and sleepless nights. A lot would depend on whether it happened early or late into the trip. But it's not a minor consideration to me. Almost everyone here on AU seems to agree that having an attitude of not worrying about on-time performance helps greatly in enjoying travel on Amtrak. I've never been under a time crunch on Amtrak before, but on this trip, I would of necessity be.

Knowing AGR policy will help me in planning. Thanks-

Edit: Unfortunately, there aren't many shorter, separate trip options available to me, without flying in and out of distant cities. The Crescent is the only train within hundreds of miles of me.


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> I think if you're involuntary downgraded (you miss a connection and the next train has no rooms available, you will get meals included. However if you voluntarily downgrade yourself (you take the Crescent, Cardinal and CZ, but there are no rooms on the Cardinal so you chose to go coach instead), you will not get meals included on the Cardinal. Plus you will be charged for a sleeper for 2 zones, since you have a sleeper in 2 different zones.
> The only way to get a voucher is to contact Customer Relations after the trip. It is very unlikely to receive points back.


Thanks, traveler! I didn't understand what you mean by voluntarily downgrading myself. I can't think of any other choice except coach if there are no rooms available. I'm sure your post makes perfect sense to those more in the know, but please elaborate for me, thanks!



AlanB said:


> Crescent,
> It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.


Alan, thanks for this info! Getting meals, at least, would be a big benefit on a trip of this length. And getting a voucher would be better than not getting one!

Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, but they'd have to clean the room again.


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## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2013)

You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 16, 2013)

Voluntarily downgrading per the_traveler means you had the option to get a sleeper on either the CL or the LSL but chose to take the Cardinal even though only coach was available. This is the next day trains since you missed your connection to the Cardinal.


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## the_traveler (Jun 16, 2013)

crescent - I included an example of a voluntary downgrade in my post above. Just to make it a little clearer, say you have to be in Denver on a certain date, but the Cardinal does not have any rooms on the day you need it but the Crescent and CZ do. Thus you choose the 2 rooms and (since you have be there on a certain day) you go coach on the Cardinal. That would be a voluntary downgrade.


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.


I know I would have access to food, but to have to pay for up to 9 days' meals would be expensive! Especially when I've already "paid" for them with my points.

Alan thinks I would be provided meals. ??? I would think that, under the circumstances, Amtrak would at least provide the meals I'd be entitled to if I had the accommodations that I'd booked.



AmtrakBlue said:


> Voluntarily downgrading per the_traveler means you had the option to get a sleeper on either the CL or the LSL but chose to take the Cardinal even though only coach was available. This is the next day trains since you missed your connection to the Cardinal.


Thanks, AB!


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> crescent - I included an example of a voluntary downgrade in my post above. Just to make it a little clearer, say you have to be in Denver on a certain date, but the Cardinal does not have any rooms on the day you need it but the Crescent and CZ do. Thus you choose the 2 rooms and (since you have be there on a certain day) you go coach on the Cardinal. That would be a voluntary downgrade.


I see now, thanks!


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## pennyk (Jun 16, 2013)

Crescent2, it appears that you are very concerned about the "what ifs" that may or may not occur during a future trip. It is impossible to predict in advance what will happen during your trip, and it may be difficult to determine how it will be handled by Amtrak since there may be many factors to consider (such as reasons for the delay, other trains available, busing available, etc.). If you are that concerned, maybe you should split your points into 2 trips and plan on a hotel room in between train segments.

You may not get all your questions answered on this forum. I suggest phoning AGR with some of your questions and you should receive "official" answers. The answers that you receive on AU are not "official" but may be accurate (or not).


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks, Penny. I know that all what-if's can't be answered with certainty, but I like to know the rough "chances" of certain things happening. I think that's valid data that helps me with planning such an extended trip.

If I were paying with $$ instead of AGR points, I would schedule a couple of overnights as insurance, although it would lengthen an already lengthy trip. But under AGR rules, I can only do that between separate AGR awards, and only two awards should be needed (one out, one coming back.) The sleeper awards require many points so I'm limited in how many separate awards I can do.

I have PM'd AGR Insider with the AGR policy questions, but my other questions on the other forum aren't specifically AGR ones.

To those whose last nerve I've gotten on, I apologize. I've tried to always be polite and Amtrak-related. Just don't read my posts, I guess.

Some of my questions are answerable, and to those with info about them, I thank you so very much! I also appreciate those who've given me their thoughts on the iffy ones. It's very helpful to me and hopefully to some others as well.


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## AlanB (Jun 16, 2013)

the_traveler said:


> You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.


No, if she's downgraded because of a mis-connect, she is supposed to get her meals in the dining car still. I can't promise that every crew will know this and understand that, unless they are first reminded by management. But that is the rule.


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## crescent2 (Jun 16, 2013)

AlanB said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > You still would have access to food, both in the Dining Car and the café. You'll just have to pay for the meals.
> ...


Thanks, Alan! If it was just for a meal or two, it's not that big a deal. But day after day, yes, because I prefer real meals to a lot of snacks, and that would get expensive. It's good to know that that's the rule, because I would now go up the chain to get it resolved if it happened.


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## PaulM (Jun 16, 2013)

crescent2 said:


> Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, *but they'd have to clean the room again.*


Where is the Devil's Advocate when we need him?


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## C&O RR (Jun 17, 2013)

What is your complete planned trip and is it possible to change your direction on the EB as to take it west and not east. EB almost always makes the connection to CS in Portland.

Assuming you do not want to spend the night in LAX and decide to take the TE. Amtrak is very good about getting one to the TE it the CS is going to be very late. TE is use to waiting for late trains to arrive.

How many points do you want to use on this trip?


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## amamba (Jun 17, 2013)

Crescent, I don't think you should apologize for asking questions. If people don't want to answer, they can scroll past. No one is forcing anyone to read your threads.

My recommendation to you is to consider breaking up your travel at some key points to ensure that you don't have a misconnect. I also live in great fear of a multi-day forced downgrade to coach. For me, it would turn a pleasurable train ride into an uncomfortable nightmare. That is not necessarily the case for everyone, but it is the case for me - and it sounds like you, too.

That is why I would highly recommend booking an extra night in CHI from the eastbound EB to your eastern connection whether its the Card, LSL, CL, etc. I personally would not risk a connection from the EB to the CL in chi. I know that it will cost more points, but that is what I have personally done to ensure my connections and to avoid a forced downgrade. I am an anxious person, and I am personally not able to enjoy the ride when I start to get nervous about the connections. It is lucky that my H had some xanax when we had our 30 hour delay on the EB because I was a wreck trying to figure out if we were going to make the LSL with our bedroom.


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## Ispolkom (Jun 17, 2013)

amamba said:


> Crescent, I don't think you should apologize for asking questions. If people don't want to answer, they can scroll past. No one is forcing anyone to read your threads.
> My recommendation to you is to consider breaking up your travel at some key points to ensure that you don't have a misconnect. I also live in great fear of a multi-day forced downgrade to coach. For me, it would turn a pleasurable train ride into an uncomfortable nightmare. That is not necessarily the case for everyone, but it is the case for me - and it sounds like you, too.


I agree, *crescent2*, your questions are exactly what this forum is for, and even better, they are new. Have you started another thread about tipping, or about the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans, or about how there should be a Chicago-Florida train via Atlanta? No.

I just had a misconnect from the Coast Starlight to the Empire Builder and AGR handled it very well.

I have a cheap, throwaway cellphone (Tracfone, the choice of drug dealers everywhere), so I had lousy reception in the West. What I did was call AGR (or Amtrak if AGR wasn't open) when we were stopped in a station for an extended time, and ask what was going on. Plans changed as our detoured train got later and later. First the plan was a bus to catch up with the Empire Builder. A few hours later, when we were stopped for several hours waiting for a fresh engineer, that went out the window, I was booked on the next day's train, but in coach. I suggested that my wife wouldn't be very happy with two nights in coach. After much work, the agent was able to book us in sleeper, though we had to move from Bedroom A in the Portland sleeper to Bedroom C in the first Seattle sleeper in Shelby. Other passengers making the connection didn't call, and were also accommodated, though some were downgraded from bedroom to roomette for part of the trip, and one or two might have had to ride coach from Portland to Spokane. We also got day rooms in a Marriott (our train arrived at 7:30 a.m., and the Empire Builder left at 4:40 p.m.), $25 per person meal money, and a taxi voucher.

All this on a train that was labeled sold out in sleeper from Portland to Chicago.

What I take from this experience is that AGR and Amtrak will do its best to keep you in a sleeper if you misconnect, but given the shortage of sleeper accommodations, it makes sense to call and try to get to the front of the line for rebooking.

Maybe not, though, as this is literally my first misconnection in 32 years riding Amtrak. I've made the connection to the Empire Builder in Portland half a dozen times, without issue, for instance, and all my really late trains have been to my final destination.

Anyway, f this scenario still makes you nervous, I agree with *amamba*, that you'd be better off building in an extra night in Chicago, even if it costs more points. What's the point of a train trip if you are going to be worried all the time about connections? With our late train I didn't worry, but that's due more to the frequent flyer miles we could have used to travel PDX-MSP, rather than my phlegmatic personality.


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## AlanB (Jun 17, 2013)

Ispolkom said:


> All this on a train that was labeled sold out in sleeper from Portland to Chicago.


Just a bit of a data point as it were, but once Amtrak realizes that it has a problem and that there are going to be mis-connects from the day before, Amtrak will immediately block from sale any remaining unsold rooms on the next day's train. Those rooms will only be available to passengers who miss-connected. So depending on just when you checked for availability, that could explain your getting a room on what you thought was a sold out train.


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## crescent2 (Jun 17, 2013)

PaulM said:


> crescent2 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know if they would allow occupancy of a sleeper if it was only available for a short stretch mid trip? That would at least allow a shower, *but they'd have to clean the room again.*
> ...


 And where is Swadian Hardcore?? I know he'd be able to provide detailed info about every single bus bridge. I'm not being a smarty; I'd love to hear what he knows. LOL

Alan: It's good to know they quickly block the available sleepers. Thanks.

C&O RR: My wild hair had turned into this:

ATL-WAS-CHI-EMY-PDX-CHI-WAS (or CVS with enough Xanax)-ATL

Crescent to CL to CZ to CS to EB to CL (or Card) to Crescent home

A few people had suggested that the nb CS and the eb EB would be a much better trip than going sb to LAX for the SL, so I changed my plans to include the EB. Now I'm excited about eventually taking it. Therefore, I guess LAX is out.

The trip above would give me the wb CZ and the eb EB, both of which are said to be the best directions of travel for having enough daylight for the best scenery, esp for the Glacier area on the EB, I believe.

I'm willing to use whatever points I can scrape together. I have about 68,000 now, and was about to buy this year's max w bonus, but decided to hold off for now.

Some of the more wary have suggested to me that this may be too much to try to accomplish in just one trip.

Amamba & Ispolkom: Thanks for your supportive words! They mean a lot. I was surprised by the turn of events, but respect the mods' rights to do as they deem best.

Ispolkom, I'm glad your adventure turned out as well as it did! Thanks for sharing your experience with me.

Amamba: I'm leaning toward thinking this is too much for one trip. At 10 days, it's already longer than I would like even without the insurance overnights. I may have to reconcile myself to a shorter trip with at least one flight.

I'm thinking about flying to DEN the day before, then DEN-EMY-PDX-CHI, then ??. I'd still have the Portland connection (Ryan says the bus bridge is good there), or else end the award there and start a new 2-zone. I'm leaning toward CONO to Crescent,. That would keep it to the central zone. But I don't know; that plan still has the PDX and CHI connections, and doesn't cut many days off the total trip length. IDK!!

My head is spinning at this point. I welcome your thoughts on the above or any suggestions you have.

Again, thanks--you're the best!


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## Tracktwentynine (Jun 17, 2013)

I don't know that this is too much to handle for one trip (though I wouldn't personally attempt it). The best thing to do is break up your trip.

For example, travel from ATL to WAS and then on to CHI and then on to EMY. There's plenty of time to connect between the _Crescent_ and the _Capitol Limited_, and the _Cap_ is generally pretty good about getting into Chicago on time.

Then, instead of trying to connect to the northbound Coast Starlight on the same morning, spend a night in San Francisco. San Francisco is a beautiful city, and there's lots to do. Make sure to book a refundable hotel room, so that if the _Zephyr_ is late, you can cancel that and catch the _Starlight_. Having one night in the Bay Area gives you a buffer in case something happens.

Then take the _Starlight_ up to Portland or Seattle and spend another night before catching the _Builder_. I think the _Starlight_ to _Builder_ connection is a little tight, but probably doable.

And then take the _Builder _to Chicago and spend another night. The _Builder_ to _Capitol_ or _Cardinal_ is probably one of the worst connections to try and make.

Staying overnight in San Francisco and Chicago would extend your trip by 2 days. It would, however, require you to shell out a few additional points:

>35,000 points ATL - WAS - CHI - EMY

>20,000 points EMY - PDX - CHI

>20,000 points CHI - WAS - ATL

*Total - 75,000 points*

Compared to:

>35,000 points ATL - WAS - CHI - EMY

>35,000 points EMY - PDX - CHI - WAS - ATL

*Total - 70,000 points*

Note than EMY/San Francisco is a natural break point. AGR is going to make you split your itinerary somewhere on the West Coast because "circle" trips are _verboten_. And it's a crapshoot whether they'll route you on the _Zephyr _when the _Builder_ would be a direct trip for CHI-PDX.

Since you have to break your trip on the West Coast anyway, why not break it at Emeryville and spend a day or two in fabulous Frisco?

If you don't want to break your eastbound trip in Chicago, you could always break it in Milwaukee or even Minneapolis. From Minneapolis, they'll bus you to connect to the trains in Chicago if the _Builder_ is running late. From Milwaukee, there is frequent service on the _Hiawatha_ into Chicago.


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## Dovecote (Jun 17, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Crescent,
> It's rare that one would get any points back for such a situation. However, as noted by the_traveler, you would still be entitled to your meals in the dining car. Additionally, once you return home speaking with a regular CS rep should get you a voucher good for future travel for 1 year as compensation for the missing sleepers.


Is it standard policy to get compensation for missing sleepers on an AGR reward? I was not compensated for missing sleeper travel from MSP>CHI. There was a bustitution due to a very late eastbound EB. I was able to continue my travel to HFY on the CL in a sleeper however from CHI. I informed an AGR agent of this situation after my trip but was not eligible for any form of compensation according to the agent.

This happened in 2010 and shortly after AGR supervision was switched internally to Amtrak. Perhaps the scenario I was involved in was new to the agent and there was no precedent to follow?


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## amamba (Jun 17, 2013)

Dovecote, in your situation did you receive a customer relations voucher for the inconvenience?

When I had a very long delay on an AGR award, AGR said "too bad, so sad" but suggested I contact customer relations. I contacted customer relations and received a very generous voucher.


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## Dovecote (Jun 17, 2013)

amamba said:


> Dovecote, in your situation did you receive a customer relations voucher for the inconvenience?
> When I had a very long delay on an AGR award, AGR said "too bad, so sad" but suggested I contact customer relations. I contacted customer relations and received a very generous voucher.


Sadly I did not contact Amtrak Customer Relations after discussing my issues with AGR. The AGR agent basically gave me the too bad, so sad line also. I actually brought this subject up on this Forum shortly after the said trip. Here it is http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/35225-compensation-for-substandard-service/

As you can see it was a mixed bag on whether I should ask for compensation or not according to the posters. I should have been more assertive in hindsight. Next time I will know better.


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## AlanB (Jun 17, 2013)

Dovecoat,

Yes, sadly you asked the wrong half of Amtrak for compensation. AGR generally can't do much, unless the entire train is cancelled and even then CS is usually the better choice. CS in your case would have issued you a voucher to compensate for that loss of the sleeper during the bus ride. They can prorate things to come up with an amount. The AGR agents to my knowledge aren't allowed to do that, it's either refund all or nothing.


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## Dovecote (Jun 17, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Dovecoat,
> Yes, sadly you asked the wrong half of Amtrak for compensation. AGR generally can't do much, unless the entire train is cancelled and even then CS is usually the better choice. CS in your case would have issued you a voucher to compensate for that loss of the sleeper during the bus ride. They can prorate things to come up with an amount. The AGR agents to my knowledge aren't allowed to do that, it's either refund all or nothing.


Thanks for the response. If there is a next time I will be prepared!


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## crescent2 (Jun 18, 2013)

Once again, this is why I love the participants on this forum!

Dovecote, I would have also expected (logically, imo) that AGR would be the one to offer the compensation, not Amtrak CR. I will certainly remember these posts if it happens to me. Thanks, amamba and Alan, for clarifying this very important point.



Tracktwentynine said:


> I don't know that this is too much to handle for one trip (*though I wouldn't personally attempt it*). The best thing to do is break up your trip.
> For example, travel from ATL to WAS and then on to CHI and then on to EMY. There's plenty of time to connect between the _Crescent_ and the _Capitol Limited_, and the _Cap_ is generally pretty good about getting into Chicago on time.
> 
> Then, instead of trying to connect to the northbound Coast Starlight on the same morning, spend a night in San Francisco. San Francisco is a beautiful city, and there's lots to do. Make sure to book a refundable hotel room, so that if the _Zephyr_ is late, you can cancel that and catch the _Starlight_. Having one night in the Bay Area gives you a buffer in case something happens.
> ...


A couple of the PM's I've received agree with your first sentence about the scope of the trip length! I think a less ambitious trip might be prudent, but I'm having trouble coming up with an itinerary that shortens it very much. My priorities are the CZ and the EB, so the middle of the trip can't change much. Changes to the beginning and end don't seem to save much time off the total trip length. Any "insurance" changes tend to get lengthy and more expensive. I realize this is still a bargain trip, $$ wise, though, even with a couple of hotels.

Yes, almost everyone seems to agree that the CHI EB to Cardinal or CL connection is very hit or miss. That's why I was considering the CONO, although that adds an overnight, too--but not an additional AGR award for the overnight, and it cuts out one zone.

There are two reasons I haven't considered breaking the trip in SF:

a) The CZ to nb CS is apparently one of the safer connections of the whole trip, esp if EMY was changed to SAC if need be. Although anything can happen, the connection from the CS to the EB in PDX is much, much tighter. It remains to be seen what AGR will let me do within a zone, however.* Results are varying greatly according to recent posts.

b) I've seen a little of SF, it is a beautiful city, but honestly, I'm still very much missing my late husband, and exploring cities by myself just doesn't sound like much fun to me right now. Someday, maybe. That's just a personal thing. I would enjoy being on the trains, however.

*If I decide to fly into DEN, I'm hoping I could do a 1-zone (western) award DEN-Wolf Point (but not an overnight in WPT), and then another award from there. There is no other route within the western zone to get from DEN to WPT, so I think they would allow it in a separate 1-zone award.

Please elaborate on the advantages of Milwaukee or Minneapolis, especially as to how they would make the CHI connection safer. I had not considered those.

Thanks, everyone! All of this is so very helpful.


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## tonys96 (Jun 18, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).


I disagree that the points do not cost anything. They are EARNED, either through your use of AGR Card, or your travel.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 18, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).
> ...


Earned? Or bonus? Would you not travel or buy stuff if you didn't get the points?


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## rrdude (Jun 18, 2013)

Points are Earned. Period. Full stop. OK, at least for me, I work hard to get them. It would be very ez in many cases to:

1) Stay in the SAME Hilton property for four days, instead of "hotel hopping" to four diff properties

2) Buy things on the Net, withOUT going thru AGR site.

3) Not participate in promos, surveys, etc., that earn afew meager points

4) Taking points-runs, when appropriate, beneficial.

5) etc., etc., etc.

The points I get ARE earned, as I do not carry, (for obvious reasons) an AGR CC. (Read: "poor credit")


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## amamba (Jun 18, 2013)

I guess it depends on your perspective re: AGR points. The bulk of mine come through the AGR MC as my H and I charge almost all our monthly expenses on them. I can easily generate 3K points a month this way. I think of them as free because I was going to buy the stuff anyway - or pay my cable bill, or my water bill, etc.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

tonys96 said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Crescent2, if you're not a risk taker, then maybe you should just use your points for shorter separate trips. You are over thinking all of this especially considering how most of yor points probably didn't COST you anything (only those that you paid cash for cost you $$).
> ...


Or, in my case (in addition to buying with $$ the max points two or three times), from exchanging mega Hilton Honors points for AGR points at a very unfavorable rate. Doesn't matter how I earned the HH points; they still had value.

Whether the points are free or not has no relevance, imo, to the merits of carefully planning an itinerary.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

I have another question for you kind folks:

Usually, how much less crowded are the sleepers in late April or May as compared to the summer months? Thanks-

My dates are very flexible, so I'm trying to avoid the foreseeable bustitution, rerouting, and major delay times of the year. I thought May might be good for that, and possibly more likely to have unsold sleepers. However, I don't know when the peak seasons start.


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## Rail Freak (Jun 19, 2013)

crescent2 said:


> I have another question for you kind folks:
> Usually, how much less crowded are the sleepers in late April or May as compared to the summer months? Thanks-
> 
> My dates are very flexible, so I'm trying to avoid the foreseeable bustitution, rerouting, and major delay times of the year. I thought May might be good for that, and possibly more likely to have unsold sleepers. However, I don't know when the peak seasons start.


My suggestion would be September. Less crowded & wouldnt have the poblems of spring time snow melt flooding! Acouple of years ago I got brave & flew to Denver in February & did DEN - EMY - PDX - CHI - WAS - STP. Great trip for a Florida boy to see snow. AND I SAW SNOW!!!!!!!!  :hi:


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## tonys96 (Jun 19, 2013)

AmtrakBlue said:


> tonys96 said:
> 
> 
> > AmtrakBlue said:
> ...


I would not take points runs. I would use a different credit card, So, yes, they are earned, IMHO.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

Rail Freak said:


> crescent2 said:
> 
> 
> > I have another question for you kind folks:
> ...


Thanks, that is the kind of info I need to know and love to get! 

A couple of questions re September:

I recall a past thread about rerouting the westbound CZ through Wyoming at certain times of the year. That would not be in September, would it?

Would the shorter daylight hours in Sept. cause me to miss any major scenery on the western trains?

Again, thanks RF!


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## AlanB (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes the shorter days could mean missing some scenery, although usually not the best. One thing to consider about September however is that early Sept gets a bump from Labor Day and late Sept gets a bump from from the leaf peepers.

That said, it's probably still one of the safer times to travel. But of course nothing is 100%.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

More good info. Thanks, Alan!

It's not the usual re-routing/Wyoming time, I guess?


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## AlanB (Jun 19, 2013)

crescent2 said:


> It's not the usual re-routing/Wyoming time, I guess?


No, that generally happens late spring or during the summer.


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## crescent2 (Jun 19, 2013)

Another strike against summer. I guess I should scratch April/May, too. Thanks much for the info!


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## amamba (Jun 20, 2013)

I would probably shoot for late September with the kind of trip that you are planning.


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## SarahZ (Jun 20, 2013)

amamba said:


> I would probably shoot for late September with the kind of trip that you are planning.


I agree, and the scenery would be really pretty. Some leaves will be changing around that time, mostly in the northern portions. Although, with the cool summer we've had, we might see autumn even earlier this year.


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## crescent2 (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks, ladies. September is sounding good. But it will be Sept. 2014 if it happens. I have a different trip planned for this Sept. (not an Amtrak trip).

If I keep pushing it back, I may have to remember to request the wheelchair ramp by the time I go!


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