# My AGR Nightmare



## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

Allow me to express my dissatisfaction for AGR.

I have spring break coming up and wanted to get out of Dodge, however I was short on cash. What I was not short on was, of course, AGR points-- so I thought I would book myself the KWD-CBS loophole, and for added funsies I'd go with ()deluxe) bedrooms mainly because... I wanted to have fun!

So, my original plan, and the one I gave to the AGR agent was:

3-30: ALC-CHI 29 (coach-paid)

3-30: CHI-STL-KWD 303/313 (BC-paid)

3-30: KWD-KCS 313 (bc-AGR)

3-30: KCS-LAX 3 (bedroom-AGR)

4-1: LAX-PDX 14 (bedroom-AGR)

4-2: PDX-CBS 28 (bedroom-AGR)

4-4: CBS-CHI 28 (stay in bedroom, with PAID coach ticket)

4-4: CHI-ALC 30 (coach-paid)

Of course I only asked for a bedroom from KWD-CBS. First call I got the "it crosses zone borders" excuse, the second call I got the ressie without question or concern. This was on March 16th.

Cut to March 22nd, today. I received my AGR tickets. First problem, everything got put back a day-- I started KWD-KCS on the 29th, not the 30th. Secondly, for some reason, the ticket from PDX-CBS was a lower level coach seat... so my trip looked like this:

3-30: ALC-CHI 29 (coach-paid)

3-30: CHI-STL-KWD 303/313 (BC-paid)

3-29: KWD-KCS 313 (bc-AGR)

3-29: KCS-LAX 3 (bedroom-AGR)

3-31: LAX-PDX 14 (bedroom-AGR)

4-1: PDX-CBS 28 (coach-AGR)

4-3: CBS-CHI 28 (coach, paid)

4-4: CHI-ALC 30 (coach-paid)

So I called AGR... here's apparently what happened. When I booked on April the 2nd, I hit a blackout date-- so the agent put me on the train that avoided the blackout dates. By doing so she put me on a fully-booked train with no bedrooms and slapped me in coach... without telling me. Now she says, according to her supervisor, that she told me both items and was fine with this-- obviously this is not true. After I got off the phone I got online and booked PAID reservations between ALC-KWD and CBS-ALC on the dates I had given her, not the dates I would have had to "settle" for-- secondly there was no way I was going to take a coach ticket on 28 when I asked (and paid in points) for a bedroom.

The new agent and I tried to work things out-- she suggested I take an "involuntary layover" in SEA by taking 14 all the way to SEA and overnighting then catching a bedroom from SEA-CBS on the next day's train. It was a good idea, except I didn't have the money for a hotel. She then checked again and found a roomette available on 28 for the day I was given a coach seat. Obviously I asked why the original agent didn't offer me the downgrade to which she couldn't answer. She asked if I would take the downgrade and I said I would on the condition that I get a partial refund in points since, obviously, I wasn't getting the level of service I had paid for.

By this time she knew I had paid ressies between ALC-KWD and CBS-ALC... I brought up the issue that if I took this concession these tickets (which are printed out since ALC has no quick-trak) are now nothing more than vouchers and I would have to buy an additional set of tickets at the current (higher) bucket price in order to make this work in ADDITION to making a concession and taking a downgrade of service on 28 and getting a partial refund of points.

All this to avoid a single blackout date.

I told her the options were to A: Give me a rule-bust because my original plan worked perfectly, B: Give me the roomette in 28 on the incorrect date and then also get me to and from ALC without making me purchase an additional set of tickets, or C: Cancel the whole thing all together and receive my complaints via mail.

She was very polite and made it through the hour in good taste and even helped a lot-- she understood what I was trying to do and tried to help me the best she could. But alas we ended up going to Nathan, her supervisor.

Option A was invalid because apparently they can't code a rule-bust or violate a blackout date for sleepers (as only a Select member, I didn't know they couldn't do this) Long story short he choose option B... and he realized "you're going in a big circle, ALC to ALC via CHI, LAX, PDX, CHI" and I said "Yes!" so he offered the following:

3-29 ALC-CHI 29 (roomette, free)

3-29 CHI-KCS 3 (bedroom, free)

3-29 KCS-LAX 3 (bedroom, AGR)

3-31 LAX-PDX 14 (bedroom, AGR)

4-1 PDX-CBS (roomette, AGR)

4-3 CBS-CHI (roomette, free)

4-3 CHI-ALC (roomette, free)

Basically he was doing some fancy ressie work to give me a free ride to/from ALC IF I accepted the downgrade on 28 and the alternative travel dates. I said this would be fine.

However it doesn't end there-- he called back and told me that I would have to switch rooms en route-- while he has roomettes and even a bedroom available on 28 they fill up at SPK. I would have to transfer over to a roomette on 8 when the two trains were joined... at about 1:45AM. I said okay, this was fine as long as I could stay on the same train (albeit two trains combined into one). He attempted to book it only to find out he CAN'T even do that because the computer reads it as two reservations-- 4/1 28 PDX-SPK and 4/2 SPK-CHI... because the transfer happens at one-AM it falls *on a blackout date*.

The situation remains unresolved. Nathan has been very friendly and the _customer service_ has been nothing less than wonderful (except for the initial agent who failed at booking be correct ressie) but the computers and AGR processes have been, ugh.

Here's the way I see it... our only pitfall is that he can't get the computer to issue me a ticket from PDX-CHI on a one-seat ride, because there is none. It also won't let me move from 28 to 8 which is (as we all know) the same damn train after SPK.

I told Nathan my dates are flexible on the front end, that if booking starting on the 29th isn't working, then try starting on the 28th, if that doesn't work try the 27th, 26th, ect. I told him to call me back when he finds ANY option that gets me back to Ohio.

I think this raises the question, I feel like I'm being too demanding. I want a horrible routing (logically) and the fact is it is so close to the date of travel that we're finding some trains sold out.

On the other hand the simple truth is I can't book a one-seat ride from PDX to CHI leaving on April 1st... and that since the 2nd is a blackout date the computer won't let him let me even stay on the same train.


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## BigBlueBuddha (Mar 22, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> So, my original plan, and the one I gave to the AGR agent was:
> 3-30: ALC-CHI 29 (coach-paid)
> 
> 3-30: CHI-STL-KWD 303/313 (BC-paid)
> ...


Yikes!  What a story!

You've heard of the harmonic convergence? This is a discordant convergence! :blink:

Sounds like it'll be a great trip once you get it all straightened out though. Have a good time!


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## Rail Freak (Mar 22, 2010)

WOW!!!!!

RF


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

I think I'm going to just cancel the whole deal... seems fair to everybody.


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## Rail Freak (Mar 22, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I think I'm going to just cancel the whole deal... seems fair to everybody.



Naaah,

That's over-reacting. Just ask The Traveler :lol: !!!

RF


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

UPDATE:

Nathan called back. He said he checked (as I had too) all of my other possible dates of departure and (as I had discovered) found that one of the trains was sold out on each of the other possible dates...

So he said what he's done is called Customer Relations (again) and the technical department to see if they can override the blackout date code. According to him they can't code a sleeper on a blackout date under any circumstances... at least the computers can't. So his problem is this:

There is a bedroom for me on 28 (4/1) from PDX-SPK. At SPK the room is sold through to CHI. There is a roomette available from SPK-CHI in the crew dorm, on train 8.. so as we previously discussed I would have to get off 28 at SPK and re-board once 8 was put at the head end... however the ticket on 8 would read "4-2-10" the blackout date. So the computer won't let me do this.

I feel sorry for him.

He's trying to get an exception ticket that would allow me to have an AGR roomette ticket printed, since the blackout date takes affect only an hour before, and because I am technically not switching trains (even though I have to detrain and re-board) in the middle of o'dark hours.


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## RRrich (Mar 22, 2010)

I did the KWD-CBS last month.

Do everything you can to make the trip - its GREAT!


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## Long Train Runnin' (Mar 22, 2010)

Couldn't he make you a dummy booking on train 8 from Seattle on April first, and book the room from SEA-CBS and then just let you board at SPK?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

Nathan didn't get back to me today-- on our last call he said he might have to wait until tomorrow until he got a response from customer relations, so yeah.

RF-- as much as Dave knows about _getting_ points I don't think even he could swing _redeeming_ them on a bunch of packed Easter trains.

I really do feel bad about this, I mean the only thing that keeps me from canceling the ressie is that I know if she had got it right the first time by telling me she pushed me back and bumped me down then these trains wouldn't be as full as they are now about a week from travel... that's what makes me upset, its not anything that's going on now its that what's going on now could ALL have been avoided if we got it right the first time.

Certainly if this works out I have no right to complain... even if I do have to make that weird switch from 28 to 8 at SPK he _did_ give promise me roomettes ALC-CHI and CHI-ALC FREE as well as forgo CHI-STL-MKD in favor of the bedroom on #3 CHI-LAX (thus voiding the loophole). I still think I might write a letter to customer relations, not complaining, more suggesting-- I have been fairly (more than fairly) compensated for the screw-up...

At the end of the day I must admit to being a little selfish... I want this trip. I confess a sense of _entitlement_ and that I feel wrong for asking him to break rules and overlook things and scramble to get tickets I in all good conscious didn't earn or pay for...

Then again when I think about it, if this had been a paid reservation they screwed up then they likely would have given me a voucher equal to my loss plus a little for the upset, since this ticket is free what more can they do besides cater to what I had planned?

I don't know how I should feel about this.


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## AlanB (Mar 22, 2010)

Didn't you check the email that you should have gotten right after the first phone call to set things up? :unsure:

That would have given you cause for alarm right away.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

I didn't get an email. I wondered about that--

I didn't know AGR had to send me an email like the regular reservation system, Nathan was the first one to tell me I'd get one... I never redeemed AGR points before.


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## AlanB (Mar 22, 2010)

AFAIK it's now automatic, so you should make sure that your info is up to date.


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## AlanB (Mar 22, 2010)

And not to be critical, but we just had this topic on emails.

Mind you the first AGR rep still should have informed you that she was juggling things on you and not getting all sleepers.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

I just went through my junk mail, my trash, and of course my inbox for anything with the word "amtrak" in it-- I have all of my confirmations for the tickets to/from ALC but NOT the AGR reservation. I went through it with a fine tooth comb, I booked my paid ressies in the same hour I made my AGR redemption and those all came through fine. Nothing else from Amtrak in my inbox, junk, or trash...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2010)

AlanB said:


> And not to be critical, but we just had this topic on emails.
> Mind you the first AGR rep still should have informed you that she was juggling things on you and not getting all sleepers.


My tickets were mailed to me... perhaps that overrode something? In any event my email accounts are empty, all both of them (I forward copies of all my ressies from my personal email to my school email).


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## AlanB (Mar 22, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > And not to be critical, but we just had this topic on emails.
> ...


I don't think that it would override the email, but I could be wrong.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 23, 2010)

I would doubt it as well Alan... there's a lot of things that don't make sense about what happened here. I haven't a clue...


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## RRrich (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm doing the OMA-CBS loophole in Feb 2011 and I already have my reservations (but not my tickets).

I thought that I was being awfully anal about getting the rezzie so early but seeing the problems my friend has had, I'm glad I have the confirmation in hand.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 23, 2010)

I called again today and Nathan had left for the day.

About five days until departure now...

I have the key to unlock the "screw this" button ready to go :unsure:


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## saxman (Mar 23, 2010)

Well if I were you I wouldn't cancel a free offering of a sleeper on your ALC-CHI legs. As LTR said, could he make a SEA to CHI routing in a bedroom and they can somehow get a message to the conductor to not sell your space when you don't show up in Seattle?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

So next up-- Nathan was supposed to get back to me yesterday, instead he called in sick both yesterday and today. Dealings are now being handled with a fellow called Jake who had one of his agents tell me that Nathan sent the request to his superiors on Monday and that we should have an answer by tonight. Apparently when Jake knows I know. Or, at least that's how its supposed to work out...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

Jake called, I have two options-- go with what I am ticketed... the very FIRST set of tickets that started this mess, or I can return the tickets for a refund of points.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

Suggestions? Besides making a futile call to customer relations?


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## BeckysBarn (Mar 24, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Suggestions? Besides making a futile call to customer relations?


Take the tickets & then call Customer Service. You have everything very well documented. I think they'll make some kind of adjustment. But get the tix, so you'll at least have that nice trip you need.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

I have the tickets, they're useless to me unless I want to shell out $300 for new tickets ALC-KWD and CBS-ALC, and my meals on the Builder.

I'm not taking that trip, I can do 45 hours in coach fine, I don't WANT to do 45 hours in coach when I paid for 45 hours in sleepers (Deluxe Sleepers none-the-less)


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

I called Customer Relations and explained that all I wanted was to travel. The guy there, Mark Jordan, said he would call people to see if I could be issued the ticket Nathan was trying to get-- that is a sleeper ticket on train 8 from SPK-CBS/CHI.

I repeated the idea over and over, its just my bad luck that April 2nd is a blackout date and that transferring from 28 to 8 at 1:15AM on April 2nd is not beyond reasonable.. especially considering Nathan was willing to give me other concessions.


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## saxman (Mar 24, 2010)

Are they still offering you your free sleeper from ALC to CHI, and then CHI to KCY?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

They're not offering me anything but the very reservation they screwed up on...

3-29: BC KWD-KCY

3-29: Bedroom KSC-LAX

3-31: Bedroom LAX-PDX

4-1: Coach PDX-CBS

Jake said I can either do the above, or return to the tickets for a refund of my points.... four days from my anticipated departure date.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 24, 2010)

Well, this is some saga. I'm really sorry it worked out so badly for you. The blackout enforcement when you move to a room at Spokane on the Builder is total nonsense.

One suggestion if you decide to cancel: be sure to call in the cancellation before your planned departure from Kansas City (KCY), and get some record of the cancellation (name, number, something). AGR has a new policy where points are forfeited if you do not cancel an AGR sleeper reservation prior to the scheduled departure. If you just mail the tickets in and they don't get them until after departure from KCY, I can see them pulling the "no show forfeit" rabbit out of their hat. After all, that Spokane blackout deal is just as ridiculous.

BTW, I assumed you were boarding the Chief at Kansas City. Amtrak does not have a KSC code.

Good luck!


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 24, 2010)

that is total BS they should allow you go switch rooms after all it was the first agents fault this was screwed up after all they should have called you weeks before with this. now the train is sold out and they won't do **** to fix the first agents screw up. corporate cover up.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 24, 2010)

Part of its my fault-- I did only book it two weeks in advance...


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 25, 2010)

I have decided to fight fire with fire.

I talked to a regular booking agent and she assured me that when I pay and reserve space on a train, then cancel the rezzie, that the room goes back in to the pool instantly. Thus I have made the following reservations and paid for them online, so I can cancel today with seven days still out--

4/1 #28 PDX-ESM Bedroom

4/1 #8 EPH-CHI Bedroom

Now armed with reserved space on both trains anybody think there is a way to convince AGR to, I don't know... issue me two tickets with one going from PDX-ESM on 28 and the other from EPH (the stop before SPK, still on the right side of the blackout 2nd) to CBS so that I can actually have space to... well, use?

I know it makes no sense, but I don't know what other cards I can play. You, me, and the rest of the world sees how utterly simple this should be, but alas--

And yes I realize that it will look like I'm a no-show on 8, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...


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## had8ley (Mar 25, 2010)

The_Traveler is probably your best bet to connect with on this one. Good luck.


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## rrdude (Mar 25, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Part of its my fault-- I did only book it two weeks in advance...


Micah, "........only booking two weeks in advance....." is in now way your fault. Amtrak screwed up, made a change, and didn't notify you.


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## daveyb99 (Mar 25, 2010)

First, let me say your plans are way too complicated. Trying to fool the computer always leads to problems. Even more, trying to mix paid coach tickets with AGR awards in the same reservations and trying to say 'i want this but dont want to get on until there'. Come On.......

To me, it does not get easier, or AGR Point cheaper, to break up a trip like you tried to.

Just book two roundtrips and be done with it. No complications, no mess.

Good Luck.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 25, 2010)

VICTORY IS MINE!!


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## RRrich (Mar 25, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> VICTORY IS MINE!!


*ALL RIGHT!!*
​

Details?


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 25, 2010)

Okay-- I called back and got Stephanie who was able to clear it with her supervisor to double-book me. I have two separate Bedrooms, one on 28 (4/1) from PDX to ESM and 8 (4/1) from SEA-CHI. I can even stay in the PDX sleeper through breakfast (no need to get off at o'dark hundred in SPK) and sleep.

Davey: I understand your point, but this is a flaw in the AGR system. As somebody (who may choose to reveal themselves if they wish) explained to me, the idea that they couldn't have moved me from 28 to 8 at SPK is nonsense. This affects "straightforward" trips too, for instance-- if you were traveling from WAS-MSP, a perfectly valid two-zone routing starting on the CL at 4/1 AGR would NOT give you a ticket to MSP from CHI because that ticket would be dates 4/2.


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## saxman (Mar 26, 2010)

Nice. So you have an AGR bedroom from PDX to ESM, and an AGR bedroom from SEA to CHI. Nicely done. Yeah, I would now call on your departure date from PDX and tell them you'll get in your bedroom down the line, and to not sell it to someone else. Shouldn't be a big deal.


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## had8ley (Mar 28, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> UPDATE:
> Nathan called back. He said he checked (as I had too) all of my other possible dates of departure and (as I had discovered) found that one of the trains was sold out on each of the other possible dates...
> 
> So he said what he's done is called Customer Relations (again) and the technical department to see if they can override the blackout date code. According to him they can't code a sleeper on a blackout date under any circumstances... at least the computers can't. So his problem is this:
> ...


I'm delighted to hear Nathan has been going to bat for you. At Christmas, we promised our grand daughter we would take her to New York for spring break. I called AGR around New years and the nice lady booked us on Easter Sunday, April 4th.

About a month ago a frantic agent calls and says, "Your tickets are no good- you cannot travel on that date; it's blacked out". Well, we had everything from limos to hotels lined up for this date. We really wanted to pull into NYP on Monday. I immediately asked for this obviously frustrated agent's supervisor who happened to be Nathan. He explained that the "only" day blacked out was Sunday and we could travel Saturday or Monday. I told him our plans and he called Amtrak and re-validated our tix. Just wondering what would have happened IF no one contacted us; I guess we would have been sitting in someone's lap all the way to NYP !


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## had8ley (Mar 28, 2010)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I have decided to fight fire with fire.
> I talked to a regular booking agent and she assured me that when I pay and reserve space on a train, then cancel the rezzie, that the room goes back in to the pool instantly.


Maybe one of the admins can straighten me out on this one. I've always been told by Riverside res to call at 3 a.m. to see if any rooms had been released from the day before and were re-entered in the middle of the night. Has this changed?


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## Trogdor (Mar 28, 2010)

had8ley said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I have decided to fight fire with fire.
> ...


If you cancel a reservation, the space goes back immediately.

If you don't cancel, but instead let a reservation lapse because you didn't pay for it by its hold date, then it goes back at whatever that cutoff time is (midnight Pacific/3 am eastern, I believe).


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## jis (Mar 28, 2010)

Considering how much trouble and utter confusion some AGR agents suffer from in my attempts to book a simple straightforward itinerary, I shudder to think what would happen if I tried a loophole thing. I am willing to concede that it is most likely my unparalleled charm  that throws the agents off. I am sure the for someone with the savvy of the_traveler things always work out just fine.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 28, 2010)

Nathan was very attentive, I was sorry he ended up calling in sick and handed the ball to the other supervisors, both seemed to know less and one seemed to care less about what happened. Stephanie was good though, she didn't abandon me to the dogs and worked with me instead of telling me what I could and couldn't do.


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## GG-1 (Mar 31, 2010)

Aloha

Well we haven't heard from ALC_Writer for a while, I hope the trip is going well and the silence is from no Wi-Fi connections.


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## the_traveler (Mar 31, 2010)

jis said:


> I am sure the for someone with the savvy of the_traveler things always work out just fine.


My nightmare would be if they say I can't do something!


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## the_traveler (Mar 31, 2010)

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> Well we haven't heard from ALC_Writer for a while, I hope the trip is going well and the silence is from no Wi-Fi connections.


Per Twitter, he's rolling up the California coast on the CS on 3/31!


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