# AGR Rules Change Again???



## Rail Freak (Dec 25, 2011)

After getting numerous answers for a lay over in LAX for a SEA-LAX-ORL trip ( the rule being if the lay over is less than 24 hours & I pay for the hotel in LAX, It's a 3 zone trip), I've been told that that rule no longer applies & it will be a 4 zone trip!!! AGR seems to change their rules at a drop of a hat!!!

RF


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## amamba (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah, this "rule" was pretty much hit or miss. I think the one thing that all of us here on this board would love to see is an AGR rule book. I am convinced that they don't actually have one. I don't think many people have been able to do the connection from the CS to the SWC (when going southbound on the CS) because of the timing issue. It seems that the one place where you have the most success in paying for a hotel room on your own dime is overnight in NOL.

Maybe call back and try again?


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## guest (Dec 25, 2011)

Last month I was able to book a 2 zone trip from Fort M adison to Columbus Wisconsin via the Southwest Chief, Coast Starlight and Empire BUILDER. I AM traveling in a bedroom. I HAD WANTED to change to the EMPIRE Builder in Seattle buying a hotel at my expense for the under 24 hour stay but this was not allowed. I have to change trains in PORTLAND and hope the tight connection works that day. IF everything works this was a great deal giving me 5 train nights for a 2 zone award. I will buy a coach ticket from Chicago to Fort madison and from Columbus to Chicago.


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## Ispolkom (Dec 27, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> AGR seems to change their rules at a drop of a hat!!!


Why do you assume that there are fixed rules, or that you ever knew what those rules were? Once I booked a trip Denver-Sacramento-Portland-St. Paul, and it was a one-zone award. The next time it was a two-zone award. Which agent was right? Both? Neither? Does it matter?


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## Ryan (Dec 27, 2011)

I smell a FOIA request, like the Blue Book. Anyone familiar with how to submit one?


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## Rail Freak (Dec 27, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> Rail Freak said:
> 
> 
> > AGR seems to change their rules at a drop of a hat!!!
> ...


Once I'm told by a representative of a company (Amtrak on this example) that this is allowed, I assume that this must be the rule all reps go by!!! Foolish me hboy:  :angry2: :giggle:  :lol: !!!


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## jmbgeg (Dec 27, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I smell a FOIA request, like the Blue Book. Anyone familiar with how to submit one?


Is Amtrak subject to FOIA? I would think not. It is federally funded, not federally operated.


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## jmbgeg (Dec 27, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> After getting numerous answers for a lay over in LAX for a SEA-LAX-ORL trip ( the rule being if the lay over is less than 24 hours & I pay for the hotel in LAX, It's a 3 zone trip), I've been told that that rule no longer applies & it will be a 4 zone trip!!! AGR seems to change their rules at a drop of a hat!!!
> 
> RF


A 4 zone trip? Don't see that here. https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/redeem :unsure:


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## Ispolkom (Dec 27, 2011)

Rail Freak said:


> Once I'm told by a representative of a company (Amtrak on this example) that this is allowed, I assume that this must be the rule all reps go by!!! Foolish me hboy:  :angry2: :giggle:  :lol: !!!


Why would you assume one representative would be correct, and another wrong, when clearly different agents give different answers? I'd say that your foolishness, if there was any, was in not booking the trip with the agent who gave you the answer you liked.

Once you accept that there are no actual 100% rules, and that instead AGR works with some sort of fuzzy logic (emphasis on fuzzy, not logic), the results you get from booking travel will be more congruent.



> I smell a FOIA request, like the Blue Book. Anyone familiar with how to submit one?


If there isn't any detailed manual about long-distance redemptions (and it's fairly clear to me after a few years experience booking absurd itineraries on AGR that most agents don't have a clue, and don't have any manual they refer to), a FOIA request would be useless.

AGR is like honey badger. He don't care. It doesn't matter what we think.


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## Ryan (Dec 27, 2011)

jmbgeg said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I smell a FOIA request, like the Blue Book. Anyone familiar with how to submit one?
> ...


You would be mistaken. Check out http://Amtrak.com/foia

That's how a copy of the Service Standards Manual (a.k.a. blue Book) was released.

I think I'll give it a try.


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## Anderson (Dec 28, 2011)

I'd like to see this book myself.

Also...I _really_ think the one "tweak" they need is to allow a layover up to about 25-26 hours if a connection would otherwise be illegal/impossible (i.e. a lot of things to the Empire Builder) or barely possible but highly inadvisable due to awful OTP/common catastrophic delays (i.e. CS to just about anything in mudslide season) so long as there was a genuine "change of train" (i.e. you were "actually" switching trains).

By the way, would it be legal to switch off of the Coast Starlight onto an "earlier" Surfliner the next day and use_ that_ as a "link" to another train, or to switch onto a Surfliner for a few stops (say, out to SBA) and then onto the Starlight? I know that this is _probably _not allowed. Likewise, I'm suddenly wondering if the Hiawatha (or even the Lincoln Service) could be used as a bridge from the Eagle onto the Builder or vice-versa.


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## Ispolkom (Dec 28, 2011)

Anderson said:


> Likewise, I'm suddenly wondering if the Hiawatha (or even the Lincoln Service) could be used as a bridge from the Eagle onto the Builder or vice-versa.


It wouldn't work as an AGR award, in my experience, because it doesn't get around the fact that the Empire Builder arrives in Chicago after the Texas Eagle leaves, and the Texas Eagle arrives minutes before the Empire Builder leaves. Moving the overnight stopover to Milwaukee doesn't change that fact. (Though hotel rooms are cheaper, especially near the Milwaukee airport.) Note that you can transfer to and from the Texas Eagle to the California Zephyr via the bus between Galesburg and Springfield. If there were a bus that went Columbus-Madison-Galesburg-Springfield, AGR might well allow transfer between the Empire Builder and the California Zephyr, the Southwest Chief, and the Texas Eagle.


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## amamba (Dec 28, 2011)

Ispolkom said:


> AGR is like honey badger. He don't care.


And Ispolkom for the win!


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 28, 2011)

Ryan said:


> I smell a FOIA request, like the Blue Book. Anyone familiar with how to submit one?


Each office or agency has their own protocol. Amtrak's process is defined in their *FOIA Handbook* Or at least that is my understanding. ^_^


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## Ryan (Dec 28, 2011)

Yeah, I found that (and linked to it above) after I made that post.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 28, 2011)

D'oh!

Well, I'll be happy to pitch in a fin to help pay for the cost of exercising our rights.

Might be fun to request details on the Amtrak <> UP negotiations regarding the daily Sunset while we're at it. :lol:


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## yarrow (Jan 3, 2012)

i callled agr on new year's day (was shocked they were there)and did a one zone rt 30k point roomette redemption for the end of january/first part of feb from spokane to flagstaff with an overnight in la without problem. as a matter of fact, it was the quickest and smoothest agr redemption ever


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 3, 2012)

yarrow said:


> i callled agr on new year's day (was shocked they were there)and did a one zone rt 30k point roomette redemption for the end of january/first part of feb from spokane to flagstaff with an overnight in la without problem. as a matter of fact, it was the quickest and smoothest agr redemption ever


:hi: Youre one of the lucky ones in the "AGR Agent Lottery!" Nice Snag!!! Most of our members havent had this luck, the old call till you get what you want shuffle is something that hopefully 2012 will see go away as AGR Agents gain experience and Supervisors actually Supervise!! Make it up as you go is no way to run a Railroad! :excl: :excl: :excl:


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## Ispolkom (Jan 3, 2012)

jimhudson said:


> the old call till you get what you want shuffle is something that hopefully 2012 will see go away as AGR Agents gain experience and Supervisors actually Supervise!! Make it up as you go is no way to run a Railroad! :excl: :excl: :excl:


I don't agree. A world in which I knew for a certainty what AGR rules were for long-distance redemptions would be a sad and colorless place.


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## Anderson (Jan 4, 2012)

Texas Sunset said:


> D'oh!
> 
> Well, I'll be happy to pitch in a fin to help pay for the cost of exercising our rights.
> 
> Might be fun to request details on the Amtrak <> UP negotiations regarding the daily Sunset while we're at it. :lol:


Ditto. These manuals are always fun; it really is a shame that we don't have a "files" area on here for storing these sorts of things in a searchable database of some sort.


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