# Empire Builder discussion



## egurbi (Jun 2, 2022)

I have searched but haven't been able to come up with answers to the following questions. Any help greatly appreciated. Thank you. 

1. Is there an Amtrak baggage check at King Street Station in Seattle where one could leave bags for five or six hours prior to departure of the Empire Builder? 


2. Realizing this could change based on schedule, is there any way to determine what stops between Seattle and Chicago one can get off the train to stretch legs?


3. Are any scheduled stops between Seattle and Chicago long enough in duration to be able to shop at a local grocery or food store that is within walking distance of the train?

Any help from this great group of folks enormously appreciated!


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## Maglev (Jun 2, 2022)

1. There is a baggage check service at King Street Station, subject to a $10 per bag fee.

2. These are the "stretch / smoke" stops:

Wenatchee, WA

Spokane, WA

Whitefish, MT

Shelby, MT

Havre, MT

Williston, ND

Minot, ND*

St. Paul/Minneapolis, MN

Winona, MN

Milwaukee, WI (no smoking)

3. None of these stops, except Spokane, are long enough to go shopping; and in Spokane, no nearby supermarkets are open of which I am aware.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 2, 2022)

1. Yes. Daycheck at $10/bag
2 & 3. Smoking/fresh air stops are:
Wenatchee (short, engineer change)
Spokane
Whitefish (long, service stop)
Shelby (maybe. short if they let you. Crew change)
Havre
Williston (maybe, but most often is. short if they let you)
Minot (long, service, inspection and crew change). Most likely if you want to leave station area, if it is early into Minot (Minot is a point where there is padding). Be back on the platform at least 5 minutes before scheduled departure. If the train is late into Minot do not do it, they will leave as soon as work is done.
St. Paul
Winona (short. Do not even go into the depot. Crew change.)

On my last Builder trip in November 2021, they did not allow passengers off in Milwaukee.

Only place I ever went into a grocery was at Albuquerque. We were early and had most of 2 hours there, crew actually gave directions to a small grocery a couple blocks west of the station.


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## JayPea (Jun 2, 2022)

There is a 7-11 about 2 blocks from the station in Spokane, but that area of town is a bit sketchy, especially in the middle of the night when the Builder makes its stop there. For me I don't think I'd take the risk, but I also don't think I'd tell someone what or what not to do.


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## yarrow (Jun 3, 2022)

we have put items we will need in a small bag which we keep with us and checked the rest of our bags to our destination and thus are free to wander the city and avoided the $10 per bag charge.


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## egurbi (Jun 3, 2022)

Thank you VERY MUCH for all the replies. Extremely informative. Off we go soon!


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## Acela150 (Jun 3, 2022)

Maglev said:


> 1. There is a baggage check service at King Street Station, subject to a $10 per bag fee.
> 
> 2. These are the "stretch / smoke" stops:
> 
> ...


 Williston and Milwaukee are NOT fresh air breaks. Williston going west is at the discretion of the T&E crew. 

And yes, nothing is near by SPK.


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## Rasputin (Jun 3, 2022)

Back when they had a schedule that you could look at (These were things that told the time of departure of the train at stations en route and sometimes told the time of arrival followed by the time of departure) Havre was listed as a twenty minute stop and I have heard of people going to stores there. Minot was listed as about a thirty minute stop but I don't recall seeing many stores near the station.

Those who have tried to do shopping en route can hopefully provide some further advice. Don't get left behind.


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## mlanoue (Jun 3, 2022)

Both times I rode the Builder we were pretty close to on time. The stops at Minot and Havre were long enough to roam around the station and get something at the vending machines or whatever. Seems like somebody was selling ice cream outside at the Havre stop, but it's been five years so I might be misremembering. It's entirely possible that somebody somewhere over the years managed to find a store and make a purchase, but it just seems too risky.


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## trimetbusfan (Jun 3, 2022)

Minot stop can be long enough (especially WB) if you get there early. Unfortunately, not too much there, but there is a gas station down the road and a few other places.


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## Steve Manfred (Jun 3, 2022)

You can see some recent trips on the Empire Builder from one end to the other on the YouTube channel "Grounded Life Travel."


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## Northwestern (Jun 3, 2022)

mlanoue said:


> Both times I rode the Builder we were pretty close to on time. The stops at Minot and Havre were long enough to roam around the station and get something at the vending machines or whatever. Seems like somebody was selling ice cream outside at the Havre stop, but it's been five years so I might be misremembering. It's entirely possible that somebody somewhere over the years managed to find a store and make a purchase, but it just seems too risky.


The Havre Amtrak station is about a 20 min. stop. There is a grocery store 3-4 blocks away from the station. Also, a restaurant across from the Amtrak station. People sometimes will call the restaurant, before the train gets into Havre, and order food to go. I don't know the name or phone number of the restaurant. I also don't know the name of the grocery store. Maybe you could email the Havre Chamber of Commerce and ask them.

Is the Havre station staffed? I thought the station agents were going to be eliminated.


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## jis (Jun 3, 2022)

Northwestern said:


> Is the Havre station staffed? I thought the station agents were going to be eliminated.


Havre is staffed with checked baggage service.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Jun 3, 2022)

Is the Havre restaurant PJs? 

That seems to be the closest. Looks like a burger and fries type place? You have to walk there to pick up your order. It says takeout but no delivery.

It’s a three-minute walk but I, personally, wouldn’t risk even that short a walk when there’s only one train a day. And certainly not the grocery store or a restaurant farther away. (However, I live in the most densely populated state in the nation, so the thought of the train leaving me in wide open empty spaces absolutely terrifies me.)

Google does show a bunch of chain hotels on what must be a main road out there, so you would be able to stay somewhere overnight if you missed the train.

There used to be a hot chocolate/coffee truck at the station that was a big hit—is she still there? Or was that Minot? I get them mixed up.

If you’re starting from Seattle, which I hear has good food, and ending in Chicago, which I know for a fact has wonderful food about every couple of feet, you might want to just eat the Amtrak stuff on the day in the middle.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 3, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Back when they had a schedule that you could look at (These were things that told the time of departure of the train at stations en route and sometimes told the time of arrival followed by the time of departure) Havre was listed as a twenty minute stop and I have heard of people going to stores there. Minot was listed as about a thirty minute stop but I don't recall seeing many stores near the station.
> 
> Those who have tried to do shopping en route can hopefully provide some further advice. Don't get left behind.


Actually, the new Schedules tab, much as I dislike it, is better for station dwell times. It gives the scheduled arrival and departure for EVERY station, not just a chosen few.


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## Rasputin (Jun 3, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Actually, the new Schedules tab, much as I dislike it, is better for station dwell times. It gives the scheduled arrival and departure for EVERY station, not just a chosen few.


Thanks for pointing that out. I see they are now posted and it is not even September.


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## Acela150 (Jun 3, 2022)

trimetbusfan said:


> Minot stop can be long enough (especially WB) if you get there early. Unfortunately, not too much there, but there is a gas station down the road and a few other places.


Their is a great place to get coffee there across the CP main line. She makes a killing off of the EB going west.  


Northwestern said:


> The Havre Amtrak station is about a 20 min. stop.
> 
> Is the Havre station staffed? I thought the station agents were going to be eliminated.



Going west that 20 minutes isn't really 20 minutes. The train pulls in and gets fueled and then after the fueling is complete pulls down to the station platform. The fuel stop is 10 minutes alone and if the train is late the stop is as short as 5 minutes. 


Mystic River Dragon said:


> Is the Havre restaurant PJs?



Yes it is.


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## Rambling Robert (Jun 4, 2022)

In a couple weeks I’ll be on the EB CHI to PDX but getting off in Spokane for a three day trip exploring Banff CA. I’ll be submitting my ArriveCan app soon - basically digitizing my covid vaccine card, my passport and a questionnaire. The YouTube help about ArriveCan is good. Any other problems?

I’ve seen photos of the SPK station and it looks okay but at night it seems nearby clubs might be leaving. Is the station at all secure? I’ve got a 7:30AM Enterprise pickup scheduled. A LaQuinta hotel is nearby but wants full rate.

Any ideas about the layover

I’ll bring stuff to eat but would be willing to get a delivery - generally happy with the caffe car and I’ll be on the CS to LAX. in a rroomette AND DINING CAR PRIVILEGES! I’ll wear a nice sports jacket - haha.


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## JayPea (Jun 4, 2022)

The station in Spokane employs security guards, for what it's worth, and, especially in the last few years, keep unwanted folks out. I've never felt unsafe there, and I've been there dozens of times. You should encounter no problems with the club crowd.


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## Rover (Jun 15, 2022)

Rambling Robert said:


> In a couple weeks I’ll be on the EB CHI to PDX but getting off in Spokane for a three day trip exploring Banff CA. I’ll be submitting my ArriveCan app soon - basically digitizing my covid vaccine card, my passport and a questionnaire. The YouTube help about ArriveCan is good. Any other problems?
> 
> I’ve seen photos of the SPK station and it looks okay but at night it seems nearby clubs might be leaving. Is the station at all secure? I’ve got a 7:30AM Enterprise pickup scheduled. A LaQuinta hotel is nearby but wants full rate.
> 
> ...


Looks like there's snow and winds in the forecast:

West Glacier Region-

1151 AM MDT Tue Jun 14 2022

...WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 6 AM MDT

WEDNESDAY ABOVE 5000 FEET...

* WHAT...Heavy snow above 5000 feet. Additional snow accumulations

of 4 to 9 inches above 5000 feet and 9 to 16 inches above 6000 

feet. Winds gusting as high as 45 mph.



https://www.mdt.mt.gov/_resources/pl/rdrpt.pl?rptname=Winter


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## Rambling Robert (Jun 15, 2022)

JayPea said:


> The station in Spokane employs security guards, for what it's worth, and, especially in the last few years, keep unwanted folks out. I've never felt unsafe there, and I've been there dozens of times. You should encounter no problems with the club crowd.


Thank you for thre info - I stayed in the station and felt very safe then about five hours later rented a car. I’m very near Banff and tracks have been next to me all the way. Somewhere there was a large display of old passenger cars, curious but kept driving.

A security person was there the whole time at Spokane and Amtrak left around 6PM. Either the upper or lower restrooms were open alll night! BTW the EB train 7 attendant kept everything ship shape.

Rover: the alerts for Banff were worst than what I drove. The forecast was bad - extreme rain and cloudy - at times it was bad driving - then a lot of gorgeous mountains with fluffy clouds some backlit by the sun. But going north the skies were dark gray I somehow took a wrong turn and headed south losing s lot of time to Banff to the north - and missing the weather- haha.

So at first I thought my road trip/railroad trip was a bust but the trip overall has been very nice. 

If I had taken the Mountaineer east to Banff I wouldn’t have gotten lost but by car northward from Spokane there are spectacular views - prolly the best in North America. My cost for two nights at a nice place near Banff and three day car rental. and gas ($8.50USD/gallon) is about $800.

On board the EB and LSL i skipped four meals. I thought LD cafe menu was upgraded to a National menu - NOPE.

By the time I got to Cranbook AB CAN I was starving and settled in at Denny’s and felt homezz

.


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## abob50 (Jun 29, 2022)

Hello everyone,
I've been following along on the forums for the past couple months. My family and I (2 adults and 2 7-year-olds) are taking the Empire Builder from Chicago to Portland in a few weeks. We do not have a sleeper so I have a few questions about luggage and food.

Are carry on bags stowed in overhead bins as they are on a jet?
Can coach passengers eat in the dining car or is that just reserved for travelers with sleepers?
Is there an observation car of some sort or are we basically relegated to our seats for the whole journey?
Thanks everyone!


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## zephyr17 (Jun 29, 2022)

1. Larger pieces of carry on luggage are usually stowed on the common rack downstairs on Superliner trains. Smaller pieces can go on an overhead _ rack_ (not a bin with a door).
2. Currently, the dining car on the Empire Builder is restricted to sleeping car passengers only. There is a cafe on the lower level of the Sightseer Lounge car. It's food selection is like a rolling 7-11.
3. You are not restricted to your seat at all. You may wander the train at will outside of the sleepers. There is a Sightseer Lounge car.


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## Maglev (Jun 29, 2022)

"Are carry on bags stowed in overhead bins as they are on a jet?"

There are overhead open racks (not closed bins) with limited storage as well as a luggage storage shelf area downstairs.

"Can coach passengers eat in the dining car or is that just reserved for travelers with sleepers?"

Only sleeping car passengers may eat in the dining car at this time. There is a cafe downstairs from the observation area in the Sightseer Lounge car, which has first-come, first-served seating to enjoy the views (in answer to your third question).

Here is a link to the Cafe menu, although a few items may have changed since October: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...ts/menus/national/National-Cafe-Menu-1021.pdf


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## oregon pioneer (Jun 30, 2022)

The above answers are correct. I'd only add that the upper level of the Sightseer Lounge is open to anyone on the train, at any time. The lower level is reserved for people who are consuming purchased food or beverages.

Here are some photos of the SSL. Half of the upstairs is configured as tables (games & family snacks, bring-your-own food OK) and half is configured as couches and chairs, facing the windows for sightseeing. Note these are from two different trips, one was before Covid, one last winter when masks were required. In summer, most every seat will be full and you may have to check back later to find space for the family to sit together.





I know you will ahve a wonderful family trip, and I hope you report back afterwards and let us know the high points (and the low ones).


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## WWW (Jun 30, 2022)

Question not asked/answered - Any time limits on sitting in the SSL ? If so how long ? Who monitors it ?


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## joelkfla (Jun 30, 2022)

WWW said:


> Question not asked/answered - Any time limits on sitting in the SSL ? If so how long ? Who monitors it ?


Officially, no; but conductors will sometimes impose limits on crowded runs and enforce them themselves. I've heard numbers anywhere from an hour to 3 hours.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 30, 2022)

WWW said:


> Question not asked/answered - Any TIME limits on sitting in the SSL ? If so how long ? Who monitors it ?


Not usually on the Empire Builder. I have heard that is sometimes done on the CZ. If anyone does it, it is the conductor. No mention in the Blue Book


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## Rasputin (Jun 30, 2022)

WWW said:


> Question not asked/answered - Any TIME limits on sitting in the SSL ? If so how long ? Who monitors it ?


I have never been on an Amtrak train where there were any time limits imposed. As the previous response indicates I have heard of conductors imposing some time limits, especially on the CZ but I have never experienced it even in my travels on the CZ.


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## abob50 (Jul 1, 2022)

Thank you, I'll be sure to report back with a rundown of the journey!



oregon pioneer said:


> The above answers are correct. I'd only add that the upper level of the Sightseer Lounge is open to anyone on the train, at any time. The lower level is reserved for people who are consuming purchased food or beverages.
> 
> Here are some photos of the SSL. Half of the upstairs is configured as tables (games & family snacks, bring-your-own food OK) and half is configured as couches and chairs, facing the windows for sightseeing. Note these are from two different trips, one was before Covid, one last winter when masks were required. In summer, most every seat will be full and you may have to check back later to find space for the family to sit together.
> 
> ...


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## Rasputin (Jul 1, 2022)

abob50 said:


> Thank you, I'll be sure to report back with a rundown of the journey!


Hope you have a great trip. Take advantage of the smoke stops to step outside for a bit. Take plenty of snacks and some water. A sleep mask is recommended. North Dakota and eastern Montana are good places to take a nap so you will be awake and alert by the time you reach Glacier Park late in the afternoon. Look forward to your report.

The scenic highlights are the Mississippi, Glacier Park and the run along the Columbia River in the morning before arriving in Portland.


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## PaunchyPirate (Jul 2, 2022)

I just left the California Zephyr yesterday after riding from Chicago to Emeryville. The observation car was very fill for extended periods during the most scenic parts of the journey. After about 2 hours climbing the Rockys out of Denver, the Conductor asked anyone who had been sitting there from Denver to please leave so others could enjoy the views for a while. I was in my roomette ate the time, so I do not know how well the request worked. Ever time I tried to find a seat during Colorado, the place was full.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 2, 2022)

PaunchyPirate said:


> I just left the California Zephyr yesterday after riding from Chicago to Emeryville. The observation car was very fill for extended periods during the most scenic parts of the journey. After about 2 hours climbing the Rockys out of Denver, the Conductor asked anyone who had been sitting there from Denver to please leave so others could enjoy the views for a while. I was in my roomette ate the time, so I do not know how well the request worked. Ever time I tried to find a seat during Colorado, the place was full.


The Words " Lounge Lizards" and "Seat Hogs" come to mind.

Everytime I've been on the Zephyr there have been people who seemed to Live in the Lounge, and most of the Conductors do make the announcements about sharing the Seats in the Lounge.

When the PPCs were on the Starlight, the same thing happened with the nice Swivel Chairs in that Car.


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## jpakala (Jul 2, 2022)

I remember reading years ago (perhaps in Trains) that first-class lounge space was a requisite (stated in a "simply assumed" sort of way). The exceptions would have been either day trains with a parlor car (and of course a dining car) or strictly overnight trains where the only need to leave one's sleeping car was possibly for breakfast in the diner (unless the train was short, such as with a few coaches & one sleeper, and arrival by say 7:00 or 7:30 am). For lounge space a lounge car with 6 bedrooms in one half of it might be typical at least if the train was not a longer or perhaps "all-Pullman" one and also did not have too long a route. In June 1944 my mother (with me at 3 months old) had a seat along the wall of a full-length club car from Pittsburgh to Chicago and fortunately before long a man offered to switch his parlor car seat for hers (as he was playing cards at an adjacent table anyway) and she was much relieved to be in not only a much nicer chair and quieter car, but even have floor space for the basket. A stewardness offered to warm a bottle but mother declined (as she nursed). My brother & sister (13 & 10 years older) were with with an accompanying adult friend in coach, but could come back and visit.


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## Asher (Jul 3, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> The Words " Lounge Lizards" and "Seat Hogs" come to mind.
> 
> Everytime I've been on the Zephyr there have been people who seemed to Live in the Lounge, and most of the Conductors do make the announcements about sharing the Seats in the Lounge.
> 
> When the PPCs were on the Starlight, the same thing happened with the nice Swivel Chairs in that Car.


Lounge lizards and parlor seat hogs as you mentioned are my only form of frustration while traveling on LD trains. It’s just the look of entitlement when they park their ass in a seat for the day.


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## WWW (Jul 3, 2022)

Maybe if Amtrak didn't make the seating so comfortable it would discourage the practice and putting drink holders
and other perks with the seating arrangement is not helpful.
Prime time for the SSL would be in passing notable sites - that would be a tough time to enforce sharing.
Perhaps a surcharge (fee) for use of the SSL might be a way - with a limit to how many tickets are sold - - -
But then again that lower level snack bar area poses an access problem when the upper would have restrictions.
Amtrak has designed a NO-WIN solution to their popular SSL concept.
In a sense the SSL is a non-revenue car excepting the snack bar !


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## Rasputin (Jul 3, 2022)

The signtseer lounge car is one of the few amenities offered on Amtrak and it separates Amtrak from other transportation services. For coach passengers it is the only amenity Amtrak offers except for rest rooms and checked baggage. I have never found occupancy of the lounge car to be a problem except that some people are reluctant to sit at a booth or seat with or near other passengers. I think most people who are patient can manage to find a seat if not at first, then a half hour later. 

We spend a fair amount of our time in the lounge car and if we are at a table we always invite others to sit in the opposite booth at our table


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## Asher (Jul 3, 2022)

WWW said:


> Maybe if Amtrak didn't make the seating so comfortable it would discourage the practice and putting drink holders
> and other perks with the seating arrangement is not helpful.
> Prime time for the SSL would be in passing notable sites - that would be a tough time to enforce sharing.
> Perhaps a surcharge (fee) for use of the SSL might be a way - with a limit to how many tickets are sold - - -
> ...


I’m thinking a parking meter. But whatever it takes.


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## Rasputin (Jul 4, 2022)

I 


anumberone said:


> I’m thinking a parking meter. But whatever it takes.


I think that would be quite effective in reducing Amtrak ridership if that is what you want.


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## Asher (Jul 4, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I
> 
> I think that would be quite effective in reducing Amtrak ridership if that is what you want.


No, I wasn’t suggesting you shouldn’t get your fair share of the lounge.


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## Saddleshoes (Jul 4, 2022)

Empire Builder Sight Seeing Lounge (SSL) ---
On our west bound trip last Thursday, our train was sold out. As a result, at the Tomah Wisconsin stop the conductor asked people to clear out of the SSL because they needed the seats for people getting on at Tomah.


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## Nance (Jul 5, 2022)

I'm going to be in car 2730 on the Empire Builder, as I am walking out of Chicago station to the tracks will this car be the first car or the last car? Wondering if I will need the Red Cap service.


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## Saddleshoes (Jul 5, 2022)

Nance said:


> I'm going to be in car 2730 on the Empire Builder, as I am walking out of Chicago station to the tracks will this car be the first car or the last car? Wondering if I will need the Red Cap service.


I was on Car #2730 last week. It was the last car. However, they used a track that goes through the station. As a result we were first to board and boarded just adjacent to to the concourse. (easy-peasy!)


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## zephyr17 (Jul 5, 2022)

2730 is the last car. They almost always board the Builder from the north side concourse on track 19 (the north side version of the through track). If they do, 2730 will be the first car you reach on the platform.

Very occasionally they will board from the south side's version of the through track, track 30. It does happen, it happened to me once. In that case, it will be the very last car.

Chances of it boarding from Track 19 are probably over 90%, though.

Note that the through track (19 north, 30 south) is the furthest track east and the farthest from the Metropolitan Lounge.


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## WWW (Jul 5, 2022)

I don't know if the EB is boarded by destination city ?
It would seem that if only going to one of the cities between Chicago and Spokane -
the Conductor or assistant will designate which car is the car that will be stopping at the platform of your city.
At MSP the full platform accommodates all cars 
When stopping at any of the small cities the station platform is only 1-2 cars wide i.e. La Crosse
If carrying a large group spread out over more than 2 cars - this would require a double stop

EB at Chicago boards usually at Track 19 the thru track between the North and South tracks.
The Portland cars would be then be as noted an easy-peasy short walk to boarding - - -
The Seattle would be a long walk to the front of the train - - -

Normal consist - 2 locomotives - baggage - 4 cars (1 is a diner) - SSL - 3 cars - all total 11 units
The 4 cars behind the baggage car is the Seattle section
The SSL and the last 3 is the Portland section.

Private cars are always on the tail end unless going to Seattle then behind the 2nd locomotive
The EB splits into two sections at Spokane - 7 goes to Seattle - 27 goes to Spokane - - -
The reverse going eastbound Portland 28 joins the Seattle 8 at Spokane with same 11 unit consist
During heavy winter activity BNSF may require Amtrak to have 3 locomotives
Additional cars and locomotives added may be to ferry equipment to from Seattle/Portland for
servicing maintenance with i.e. Coast Starlight equipment.

A small nutshell of trivia info/data


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## WWW (Jul 5, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> 2730 is the last car. They almost always board the Builder from the north side concourse on track 19 (the north side version of the through track). If they do, 2730 will be the first car you reach on the platform.
> 
> Very occasionally they will board from the south side's version of the through track, track 30. It does happen, it happened to me once. In that case, it will be the very last car.
> 
> ...


Or look at it as these tracks are closest to the Chicago River - - -
When EB #8 arrives usually on that Track 30 - end of the train short walk - front long walk

All the other tracks at Chicago Station are dead-ended.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 5, 2022)

WWW said:


> Or look at it as these tracks are closest to the Chicago River - - -
> When EB #8 arrives usually on that Track 30 - end of the train short walk - front long walk
> 
> All the other tracks at Chicago Station are dead-ended.


Usually both arrives and departs on Track 19, the designation the through track has on the north side. They seldom pull through to the south side, where the through track becomes Track 30, to unload.

I've ridden the Builder pretty regularly for years. In all that time I've boarded on the south side's Track 30 only once, and never deboarded on Track 30 on the south side.


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## thully (Jul 12, 2022)

I’ve been wanting to ride the Empire Builder, since it’s the only Western LD I haven’t been on. I was looking at a number of dates, both close and further out. Ideally I’d like to pair it with a last-minute room I snagged on the Canadian, but I may end up pushing it back…

First of all, I had found an available roomette on the Portland sleeper in August, but after entering my credit card information got a message that the accommodation was no longer available. However, after refreshing the page this single roomette still shows up. From past posts I gather that it is likely the same room isn’t available the whole trip?

With that said, I was also looking at the possibility of switching rooms mid-trip. When I look at both PDX and SEA-CHI, I do see options to switch between 28 and 8, but all do so at Spokane in the middle of the night and cost more for a roomette than the single through roomette high bucket. Is it possible to do a room switch at another point (preferably during the day), and is there any way to get the through fare?

Finally, I was considering the alternative of doing this as my return from the Gathering in San Diego in October, as there is more availability then. However, doing that would involve connecting from the Coast Starlight. Is this connection reliable? Do they still bus Klamath Falls-Pasco for delayed trains, and is there a likelihood for finding sleeper space the next day in October if I misconnect? Just trying to figure out if I should add in an overnight stay (or fly to PDX/SEA the night before) if I were to do that…


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## katiecat (Jul 12, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> Hope you have a great trip. Take advantage of the smoke stops to step outside for a bit. Take plenty of snacks and some water. A sleep mask is recommended. North Dakota and eastern Montana are good places to take a nap so you will be awake and alert by the time you reach Glacier Park late in the afternoon. Look forward to your report.
> 
> The scenic highlights are the Mississippi, Glacier Park and the run along the Columbia River in the morning before arriving in Portland.


You may also want to be sure you have some foam ear plugs or noise cancelling ear buds with you just in case small humans lose their cool.
Also, make sure you have a blankie with you as the cars can get chilly especially at night.


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## WWW (Jul 12, 2022)

katiecat said:


> You may also want to be sure you have some foam ear plugs or noise cancelling ear buds with you just in case small humans lose their cool.
> Also, make sure you have a blankie with you as the cars can get chilly especially at night.


Might add avoid the front - rear of the car with the doors opening/closing and being a drafty noisy location - also restroom !


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## pennyk (Jul 12, 2022)

thully said:


> I’ve been wanting to ride the Empire Builder, since it’s the only Western LD I haven’t been on. I was looking at a number of dates, both close and further out. Ideally I’d like to pair it with a last-minute room I snagged on the Canadian, but I may end up pushing it back…
> 
> First of all, I had found an available roomette on the Portland sleeper in August, but after entering my credit card information got a message that the accommodation was no longer available. However, after refreshing the page this single roomette still shows up. From past posts I gather that it is likely the same room isn’t available the whole trip?
> 
> ...


Many members here switch accommodations during a trip (although I have only done it once and an Amtrak employee found a workable switching station for me). I am sure it is time consuming playing around with city pairs. Possibly a phone call to Amtrak may be easier.


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## Jay Aitchsee (Jul 13, 2022)

thully said:


> I’ve been wanting to ride the Empire Builder, since it’s the only Western LD I haven’t been on. I was looking at a number of dates, both close and further out. Ideally I’d like to pair it with a last-minute room I snagged on the Canadian, but I may end up pushing it back…
> 
> First of all, I had found an available roomette on the Portland sleeper in August, but after entering my credit card information got a message that the accommodation was no longer available. However, after refreshing the page this single roomette still shows up. From past posts I gather that it is likely the same room isn’t available the whole trip?
> 
> ...


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## Jay Aitchsee (Jul 13, 2022)

As noted, the Empire Builder consist merges and splits in Spokane Washington. Going east they are the 28 from PDX and 8 from Seattle. Checking various departure stations along the route gives a better indication of sleeper accommodations. As an aside, the Dining Car belongs to the Seattle consist, So PDX passengers miss dinner and breakfast, but box lunches are provided. Popular destinations from Seattle and Portland are around Glacier National Park. It is not uncommon for sleepers to open eastbound after the Glacier Area stops. It is possible to switch accommodations enroute, but as you noted, Spokane is in the middle of the night (early morning) both ways. Going east, the East Glacier stop (GPK) is in the morning and would be better for a switch, in my opinion. If it appears that accommodations are available for a switch, I would enlist an agent to help with booking. I have also found there can be a price differential between the same type of accommodation on the 28 and 8, sometimes significant. Good luck.


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## thully (Jul 15, 2022)

I ended up getting a roomette on 8 all the way SEA-CHI on August 12th - guess obsessively searching the Amtrak site paid off. And this one allowed me to book, unlike the one I found out of PDX (and I’m glad I’m on 8 instead of 28 as I’m returning from a trip to Vancouver on the Canadian). Should I be concerned about my sleeper being removed from the train as I’ve heard is an issue for some LD trains?


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## zephyr17 (Jul 15, 2022)

If you are in 30 or 32 you should be fine. However, yesterday someone posted on FB that they were bumped out of 830 on the 8/9 departure.

It is the Builder and SW Chief that have been hit with sleeper removals from reports thus far.


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## thully (Jul 15, 2022)

I’m in 830. Guess I’ll wait and see - if they bump me I’ll ask if they can rebook me in something (including perhaps the 8-28 shuffle discussed earlier). If nothing’s available but coach I’ll fly - wondering if a pre-emptive refundable airfare would be a good idea…


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## zephyr17 (Jul 15, 2022)

I just rechecked the posts on FB and the guy updated what was happening. That person called in and it turns out they sent him the wrong email. It should have been for just the schedule change. The agent reconfirmed his sleeper reservation is intact and resent etickets.

Amtrak IT strikes again. My God, that shop is a disaster.

I think you are fine in 830. I still maintain that the "base" sleepers are safe, Amtrak IT creating artificial problems notwithstanding,


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## thully (Jul 15, 2022)

I guess the last thing I need to resolve is whether I gamble and book 354 on a separate reservation (and plan to book a last-minute hotel/change to the next day if running late), or plan on spending the night and riding the new Venture cars on 350. It looks like the first couple trains on the new schedule made 354, though with the derailment yesterday a few will definitely miss it. Definitely don’t want to do Amtrak’s suggested connection of 48 and a 3-6:30am layover in Toledo…


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## zephyr17 (Jul 15, 2022)

Well, since you know what you're doing, know the risks and have a Plan B, I can't see the harm. At worst you'll be a hotel and a possible fare difference when you modify the reservation on 354 to the next day's 350 once you know 8 will be a miss. Youll be out the hotel anyway if you plan a layover.


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## PaunchyPirate (Jul 15, 2022)

thully said:


> I’m in 830. Guess I’ll wait and see - if they bump me I’ll ask if they can rebook me in something (including perhaps the 8-28 shuffle discussed earlier). If nothing’s available but coach I’ll fly - wondering if a pre-emptive refundable airfare would be a good idea…



I was in Roomette 11 in the 830 car last week with no issues.


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## amyrobynne (Jul 15, 2022)

I took the westbound EB in late June and 3/4 of the passengers disembarked in Whitefish. The train was 90% full as we left St Paul (where I boarded). 

The SSC was pretty full through Glacier but no one told people to make space for others. 

I sat in the SSC along the Columbia River the next morning and one family looked camped out there. The dad said he regularly took the train from Spokane to PDX and rarely even used his coach seats. The train was empty enough at that point that it didn't matter.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jul 16, 2022)

Jay Aitchsee said:


> As noted, the Empire Builder consist merges and splits in Spokane Washington. Going east they are the 28 from PDX and 8 from Seattle. Checking various departure stations along the route gives a better indication of sleeper accommodations. As an aside, the Dining Car belongs to the Seattle consist, So PDX passengers miss dinner and breakfast, but box lunches are provided. Popular destinations from Seattle and Portland are around Glacier National Park. It is not uncommon for sleepers to open eastbound after the Glacier Area stops. It is possible to switch accommodations enroute, but as you noted, Spokane is in the middle of the night (early morning) both ways. Going east, the East Glacier stop (GPK) is in the morning and would be better for a switch, in my opinion. If it appears that accommodations are available for a switch, I would enlist an agent to help with booking. I have also found there can be a price differential between the same type of accommodation on the 28 and 8, sometimes significant. Good luck.


I wonder how that works to pick up a room at a stop like GPK where someone has exited - there wouldn't be much time for the SCA to get the room ready. I suppose you could hang out in the diner or the SSL while they got it ready


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## PaunchyPirate (Jul 16, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I wonder how that works to pick up a room at a stop like GPK where someone has exited - there wouldn't be much time for the SCA to get the room ready. I suppose you could hang out in the diner or the SSL while they got it ready


On one of the legs of my last trip, I think it was on the Empire Builder, a roomette was freed up at a stop where another couple was boarding into that same room. The attendant just said "I haven't had a chance to change your room yet, would you mind waiting here for a moment". They were just boarding, so they were in the downstairs entrance of the car. The attendant went off and did the room up in about 3 minutes and then came back to the couple letting them know they could now have the room. I'm sure all the attendant did was to change the bedding. They do that amazingly fast. He probably got them water and emptied their trash at some point after they got settled.


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## Jay Aitchsee (Jul 16, 2022)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I wonder how that works to pick up a room at a stop like GPK where someone has exited - there wouldn't be much time for the SCA to get the room ready. I suppose you could hang out in the diner or the SSL while they got it ready


In the couple of instances I've seen it done, the switching passenger made arrangements with the SCA in advance. In a similar situation when boarding, we were told to wait in an empty bedroom while our roomette was prepared. It didn't take long.


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## Bellczar (Jul 17, 2022)

Does the Empire Builder go through Newport, Washington en route from Sandpoint to Spokane? If not, did it ever?


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## tomfuller (Jul 17, 2022)

Bellczar said:


> Does the Empire Builder go through Newport, Washington en route from Sandpoint to Spokane? If not, did it ever?


No. The route out of Sandpoint goes south over a long bridge across Lake Pend Orelle and runs along US 95 before turning west to get into Spokane.
There is a bridge across the river to Newport but the spurs all end.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 17, 2022)

Bellczar said:


> Does the Empire Builder go through Newport, Washington en route from Sandpoint to Spokane? If not, did it ever?


It did under GN, since that was GN's line. The line over Lake Pend Orielle was NP. From the start Amtrak used the former NP, not even on going through Wenatchee on the former GN on either the Builder or the North Coast Hi, but staying on the NP through Yakima. After BN completed the Latah Creek Viaduct in Spokane in 1972, the former NP between Spokane and Sandpoint became their primary line. The Builder continued to go via Yakima, but the Hi through Wenatchee and over Stevens.

The Builder initially stayed on the former NP initially after the Hi was discontinued in 1979. It resumed its traditional routing over the former GN between Spokane and Seattle through Wenatchee and over Stevens with Amtrak's October 1981 timetable, along with the introduction of the Portland section.

Ultimately I do not think the former GN through Newport is even a through line any more.


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## alanh (Jul 17, 2022)

No, it's not. Newport to Spokane is abandoned.


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## Dakota 400 (Jul 18, 2022)

amyrobynne said:


> one family looked camped out there. The dad said he regularly took the train from Spokane to PDX and rarely even used his coach seats



I have observed this during a few of my Amtrak trips and it does irritate me. It is so thoughtless about others when a family does so. During one trip, the family was very large (I think 2 or 3 families traveling together) and they occupied a good many seats in the car. 

Particularly on the Zephyr, I have heard the Conductor ask that people vacate their seats after 30 minutes so that others may be able to be seated. People ignored the request. 

I'd patronize the Cafe more if I could be certain that a seat would be available when I return from the lower deck.


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## WWW (Jul 18, 2022)

Amtrak could MAYBE learn a thing or two from the airlines about charging more for premium (viewing lounge) seating.
You pay more you get more it is that simple
But then there is the problem with access to the cafe on the lower level
This has been discussed before but no real resolution - albeit Conductor requesting musical seating
Sleepers get the diner car but it is not really a viewing lounge with comfortable seating

Coach passengers do not have access to all of the train like the Sleepers.

On another side note - Amtrak does not have cars like the Rocky Mountaineer totally designed for viewing.
Different apples oranges mangos pineapples - - -


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## joelkfla (Jul 19, 2022)

WWW said:


> Amtrak could MAYBE learn a thing or two from the airlines about charging more for premium (viewing lounge) seating.
> You pay more you get more it is that simple
> But then there is the problem with access to the cafe on the lower level
> This has been discussed before but no real resolution - albeit Conductor requesting musical seating
> ...


Restricting access to SSL's would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.


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## railiner (Jul 19, 2022)

Via Rail I believe, does have an arrangement for their "Park" observation cars, where there are restrictions during certain times, at certain times of the year as to which class of sleeper accommodation allows access...but then they also have their unrestricted "Skyline" cars on the same train...


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## Rasputin (Jul 19, 2022)

railiner said:


> Via Rail I believe, does have an arrangement for their "Park" observation cars, where there are restrictions during certain times, at certain times of the year as to which class of sleeper accommodation allows access...but then they also have their unrestricted "Skyline" cars on the same train...


I believe that coach passengers only have access to the forward skyline dome car. Sleeper Plus (i.e. regular sleeping car) passengers have access to other skylines, including the forward one. During the high season, Sleeper Plus passengers have access to the Park dome only from 4 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. (except on the evening departure from Vancouver when only Prestige passengers have access to the Park dome). I believe that some seats in the Park dome are reserved for Prestige passengers year-round. Corrections would be welcome.

From what I understand some regular sleeping car passengers on the VIA Canadian seem to tolerate these restrictions quite well but others voice considerable resentment. I don't think the restrictions would go over well on Amtrak especially since coach passengers need access to the cafe.

Perhaps in another iteration, Amtrak will have separate observation cars of some type for coach passengers and for sleeper passengers with the cafe in the coach observation car or in a separate car altogether. This seems to have been done on some trains years ago with a separate coach lounge/cafe car for coach passengers and a separate Pullman lounge for Pullman sleeping car passengers.

Since Long distance service does not seem to be an Amtrak priority, I don't expect to see this iteration any time soon.


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## annahburr (Jul 20, 2022)

yarrow said:


> we have put items we will need in a small bag which we keep with us and checked the rest of our bags to our destination and thus are free to wander the city and avoided the $10 per bag charge.


I’m curious how early we can check in and do that…?


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## PaunchyPirate (Jul 20, 2022)

annahburr said:


> I’m curious how early we can check in and do that…?


When I checked in some bags on a trip a few weeks ago, the agent in Seattle told me I could check them in 24 hours before my trip. I checked my big bag and only kept a small gym bag with what I needed for that leg of the trip with me.


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## TRA_Thom (Jul 20, 2022)

WWW said:


> Amtrak could MAYBE learn a thing or two from the airlines about charging more for premium (viewing lounge) seating.
> You pay more you get more it is that simple
> But then there is the problem with access to the cafe on the lower level


As someone who travels exclusively in coach, I can’t imagine they would do this. 
The SSL is that one cool extra that is available to everyone. It’s what makes an Amtrak long-distance train unique compared to other trains and modes of transportation. When I was on the Chief, it was pretty crowded, but people just sat next to each other. The charm is that class and fare don’t matter, just in this one car. 
“Pay more get more” is a Spirit or Frontier mindset. Coach passengers already agree to not have hot meals or a shower for several days. To confine them to their seats because the observation car gets busy several weeks a year seems like a pretty bad way to solve that problem.


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## WWW (Jul 21, 2022)

TRA_Thom said:


> As someone who travels exclusively in coach, I can’t imagine they would do this.
> The SSL is that one cool extra that is available to everyone. It’s what makes an Amtrak long-distance train unique compared to other trains and modes of transportation. When I was on the Chief, it was pretty crowded, but people just sat next to each other. The charm is that class and fare don’t matter, just in this one car.
> “Pay more get more” is a Spirit or Frontier mindset. Coach passengers already agree to not have hot meals or a shower for several days. To confine them to their seats because the observation car gets busy several weeks a year seems like a pretty bad way to solve that problem.


Valid point(s) - if it weren't for the lack of equipment (and staffing) adding a second SSL would be no big deal and solve some of the capacity
over (space) crowding problems.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 21, 2022)

Note that cars such as the SSL were traditionally considered "non-revenue" cars.

I do not have an issue with a sleeper only lounge, they were common on flagship trains back in the day and the PPC was an example under Amtrak, but as an absolute minimum, lounge space should be available to all passengers. Additional lounge space exclusive to sleeper passengers should be at most an add on. If there is one lounge car on a train, it should be open to all.


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## thully (Jul 22, 2022)

It seems that you can now book an Empire Builder connection from 8/28 to 354 using the multi-city option (this was previously not allowed since the new schedule started). However, this is still not offered as a connection on one-way/round-trip bookings. Perhaps they’re allowing it but just don’t want to go out of their way to advertise it?


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## annahburr (Jul 22, 2022)

How hot (or cold!) is the Empire Builder in these summer months? Thanks!


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## Chellerz (Jul 23, 2022)

annahburr said:


> How hot (or cold!) is the Empire Builder in these summer months? Thanks!


Hi! I’m in Minot ND on the Empire Builder as I type this. My sleeper car (730) is roasting and I’m kicking myself for not bringing a clip-on fan. But the next sleeper car back is freezing! I keep wandering back there for restrooms and cooldowns. 

I’m on the left side going westbound so the sun has been streaming in my window most of the trip, which doesn’t help. 

I’ve walked the length of the train and all the other cars seems like a good temp, although one of the coach cars was stuffy. The train is sold out so I suppose that’s to be expected. 

My advice: bring a fan. Worst case you don’t need it, but it would have made this trip much more comfortable (and I’m usually cold!)


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## joelkfla (Jul 23, 2022)

Chellerz said:


> Hi! I’m in Minot ND on the Empire Builder as I type this. My sleeper car (730) is roasting and I’m kicking myself for not bringing a clip-on fan. But the next sleeper car back is freezing! I keep wandering back there for restrooms and cooldowns.
> 
> I’m on the left side going westbound so the sun has been streaming in my window most of the trip, which doesn’t help.
> 
> ...


I assume you've already expressed your dissatisfaction to your SCA (nicely, of course.)

I suggest you also call Amtrak, ask to speak to Customer Relations, and let them know. Chances are they will at least offer you a partial voucher for future travel.


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## Chellerz (Jul 23, 2022)

I asked the SCA (Cody, who is wonderful!) about it and he was apologetic. I thought maybe I just didn’t have a vent open or something. I froze on the Lake Shore limited a couple nights ago because I didn’t realize I could close the vents under the windows! No such luck on this Superliner though. 

Thanks for the advice re CR. Everything else has been great so I’m not sure I want to punish Amtrak. I know how much they struggle. 

Although, the opening mechanism on the door between this car and the next isn’t working so they had to pry it open with a crow bar and then lock it in the open position. I’m the last roomette before the door and it’s making for a louder than usual trip, especially since I have to keep my door open because of the heat. 

Yeah ok maybe I should ask for some compensation. Might help spur them to fix it…


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## Rasputin (Jul 23, 2022)

Chellerz said:


> I asked the SCA (Cody, who is wonderful!) about it and he was apologetic. I thought maybe I just didn’t have a vent open or something. I froze on the Lake Shore limited a couple nights ago because I didn’t realize I could close the vents under the windows! No such luck on this Superliner though.
> 
> Thanks for the advice re CR. Everything else has been great so I’m not sure I want to punish Amtrak. I know how much they struggle.
> 
> ...


No matter how sorry you feel for Amtrak, I think you should request some compensation for your inconvenience. I don't think every flaw should merit compensation but I think your hot car does. 

Amtrak employees are often great people and they are our friends many times. Amtrak as a corporation is not your friend. To Amtrak management, you are merely a number not a name and they don't even hang their head in shame. 

Hope the rest of your trip and future trips go well.


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## Hepcat66 (Aug 2, 2022)

We’re hopping on the Empire Builder tomorrow aft in Portland on our way to Wisconsin Dells, WI. On the way there we have a bedroom, and on the way back, a roomette. Do the bedrooms have a bathroom? The other question is about tipping. So when, how much, and how often? Thinking about the car attendant in particular. We’ll be on train #28, car #2830, bedroom C going out, and coming back on train #27, car 2730, and room 005. Thanks for any info. Oh, and will there WiFi on board?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 2, 2022)

No wifi.

Bedrooms have bathrooms, roomettes do not.

I tip 10/night per person for decent service just before or when I detrain. I do not tip in advance. Up to $20/night for outstanding service. For poor service I tip nothing. It is a hard cutoff for me, if they provide minimal service, they get $10/night, if they do not, they get $0. Poor service for me means never being available in the car, not handling putting the berths down and up, or dictating the time ("If you want me to put the beds down, I'll do it at 7").

I tip fixed amounts in the dining car, $2/3 for breakfast and lunch, $5 for dinner.

The Portland section had the lounge, the Seattle section has the diner. Dinner out of Portland will be a cold plate dinner served by your sleeper attendant. Breakfast coming into Portland will be a selection from the cafe.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 2, 2022)

Hepcat66 said:


> We’re hopping on the Empire Builder tomorrow aft in Portland on our way to Wisconsin Dells, WI. On the way there we have a bedroom, and on the way back, a roomette. Do the bedrooms have a bathroom? The other question is about tipping. So when, how much, and how often? Thinking about the car attendant in particular. We’ll be on train #28, car #2830, bedroom C going out, and coming back on train #27, car 2730, and room 005. Thanks for any info. Oh, and will there WiFi on board?


Nice trip!

No WIFI per se, but you can use your phone around Cities and along Major Highways, but thru Eastern Washington, Idaho( nightime),Montana and North Dakota service will be scarce as Henz Teeth(the Big Nowhere describes most of those States)

Your Bedroom has a Combo Shower/ Bathroom but lots of people would rather use the Downstairs Shower because it's more Roomy and you won't get your Bsthroom wet!

Your Roomette won't have a Bathroom, there is One Upstsirs by the Attendants Room(#1)
and Several plus the Shower downstairs.

You'll be in the last Car in the Consist( unless there are deadhead or PV Cars on the Train)so you'll have a walk to the Sightseer Lounge ( and Diner which is part of the Seattle Section) after Spokane where the Train is switched together for the Trip to Chicago.

Since there is No Diner between Portland and Spokane, your Attendant will serve you a Boxed Dinner on leaving Portland and a Boxed Breakfast heading down the Columbia on your Return.

Tipping is an individual choice ( see the Thread here on AU about Tipping) but if you get good service and a friendly attitude from your Car Attendants generally you should tip them $10-$15 a night, More if they go above and beyond, Less to Zerp depending on the Service.

In the Diner, since your Meals are included, lots of passengers tip by Formula if the service is OK, say $2 for Breakfast,$3 for Lunch and $5 for Dinner.

If youd car Attendant brings Food and Drinks to your Room, tip them like an extra $5 a time since they have to walk a long way to the Diner.

Please share your trip with us when you complete your Adventures!


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## John Santos (Aug 2, 2022)

Hepcat66 said:


> We’re hopping on the Empire Builder tomorrow aft in Portland on our way to Wisconsin Dells, WI. On the way there we have a bedroom, and on the way back, a roomette. Do the bedrooms have a bathroom? The other question is about tipping. So when, how much, and how often? Thinking about the car attendant in particular. We’ll be on train #28, car #2830, bedroom C going out, and coming back on train #27, car 2730, and room 005. Thanks for any info. Oh, and will there WiFi on board?


The regular bedrooms (and the H bedroom downstairs) have bathrooms. (It's just a curtain in the H bedroom so wheelchairs can get in and out, but the bathrooms have a door in the regular bedrooms. They are combined toilet/shower units. To use the shower, you put down the toilet lid, pull down a cover over the toilet paper dispenser so it doesn't get soaked, close the door to contain the shower water. I think the entire floor is waterproof and has a drain for the shower water, which goes to separate holding tank from the toilet (I think.) Anyway the waste water is contained and this is probably way more than you wanted to know!

The family bedroom and the roomettes do not have private bathrooms. There are 3 shared bathrooms on the lower level and one upstairs, right at the top of the stairs. (That's one of the benefits of roomettes 11-14, 4 roomettes and one family bedroom sharing 3 bathrooms vs. 10 roomettes with only one bathroom upstairs. I've found that on average, when I'm upstairs, the bathroom is occupied about 1/4 to 1/3 of the time so I have to go downstairs. On the other hand, on the few occasions I've been in a downstairs roomette, all 3 bathrooms were occupied only once. (I think one of them was broken and locked off that time...) Also, since the upstairs bathroom sees much more use, it sometimes gets smelly, but usually the attendant does a good job of keeping it clean. Yet another reason to tip them well!

I usually tip about $10 per night for sleepers, more if they provide any above and beyond service. Technically, you aren't required and they don't expect tips, but practically, I think most passengers do tip. Also, I tip the dining car attendants about what I would for a similar restaurant meal, e.g. $2-3 for breakfast, $5 for lunch and $10 for dinner. (This works out to be about 15-20% of the "list price" which used to be printed on the menus when coach passengers could buy meals in the diners. Since that isn't allowed on most trains any more, I think they no longer print the prices on the menus, making it harder to judge the tip.) Again, they get a good wage and tipping is not required, but they often go above and beyond normal service.

Don't forget the Red Caps; If they meet me at the curb and bring my luggage into the station, usually about $2/bag. However, if they bring me and my luggage to the train and help me get it on board, usually I tip $5. I think the Red Caps are much more dependent on tips than the on-board services people.

Other people will tell you other formulas, but I think mine is about average.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 2, 2022)

John Santos said:


> Also, since the upstairs bathroom sees much more use, it sometimes gets smelly


One small point of etiquette, I only use the upstairs one for a quick pee. For number two, I use one of downstairs heads.

Also, if you line the bowl with TP you will leave fewer um, remnants. The vacuum flush isn't always really effective.


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## thully (Aug 2, 2022)

Also, the Superliner Accessible Bedroom does not have its own shower - only a toilet/sink in the same space as the bed/seat. You share the showers used by the roomettes…


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## Acela150 (Aug 2, 2022)

amyrobynne said:


> The SSC was pretty full through Glacier but no one told people to make space for others.


Their is one Conductor from Shelby who enforces a strcit 30 minute time limit in the SSL through Glacier so others can have a chance to see it from the SSL. 



AmtrakMaineiac said:


> I wonder how that works to pick up a room at a stop like GPK where someone has exited - there wouldn't be much time for the SCA to get the room ready. I suppose you could hang out in the diner or the SSL while they got it ready


I can tell you what happens. I used to do this routinely when I was an SCA on the EB. When the current occupants are at a meal service we change the sheets out, and do some other things that most passengers don't notice. However, if their is a difficult passenger in that room who doesn't want to leave or move their stuff, etc. We'll let them get off, and when the pax who is in that room says I'm in room XYZ what I would do is politely explain that their room was just vacanted and I would need about 30 minutes to properly disinfect and clean their room, and would either re-accomdate them in antoher room if possible, or ask them to go to the SSL. As soon as I would say that, everyone was understanding and I always got the words "Thank you"! 


Chellerz said:


> I asked the SCA (Cody, who is wonderful!) about it and he was apologetic.


Cody is a really good guy! He was one of my OJT trainers, and we got along really well. He was stunned that I was actaully "good". Simply because he told me that he always got the worst of the worst. 

The only thing that can be done is push a button that runs cold air for 15 minutes. If we hit that button to many times then it will completely shut down the HVAC on the car.


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## Irelandvegas65 (Oct 2, 2022)

Ive ridden 7 one time, in a bedroom, and have a question about coach for our booked June 2023 trip. will be be able to choose the " north/right" side of the train? I believe that would be my preferred side for sightseeing. 

Also, we will be going to a wedding in Union WA so will rent a car. right now we are planning to Uber to SeaTac to pick up a rental car that we will drop off at the airport to fly back to ORD. Any ground transportation suggestions other than Uber? it looks like the local rail doest really stop at the SeaTac car rental facility. OR, is there a car rental facility near to King Street Station that you might suggest?

Thanks!


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## Maglev (Oct 2, 2022)

Coach boarding procedures vary widely. It depends on at which station one is boarding, how full the train is, and the whims of the staff. You may be assigned particular seats or merely told which in which area to choose your own seats.

As far as ground transportation in Seattle goes, I would take the light rail to the airport then catch a free, frequent shuttle to the rental car facility.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 2, 2022)

There are downtown Seattle locations for most car rental agencies, but are only open nornal business hours, M-F, with limited hours on weekends. They're mostly open when the Builder arrives. That's a viable option, although if you want to return it to the airport, makes sure that's specified so you do not get hit with unexpected charges.


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## WWW (Oct 2, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> There are downtown Seattle locations for most car rental agencies, but are only open nornal business hours, M-F, with limited hours on weekends. They're mostly open when the Builder arrives. That's a viable option, although if you want to return it to the airport, makes sure that's specified so you do not get hit with unexpected charges.


Also note renting a car at an airport location may result in additional fees related to the operation at the airport (fees imposed by an airport commission)
Booth/kiosk - permit parking areas in prime space areas within the airport - city county facility usage near the airport 
AND - Yes watch the fees for returning to other than the EXACT original renting location


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## Irelandvegas65 (Oct 3, 2022)

Thanks for the reply! It sounds like the best plan WILL be to rent out at SeaTac as we will be dropping the car off there and we could be late on #7. That was my hunch , thanks for confirming. MY best guess it we will take the light rail and do the shuttle if we are on time and if we decide to meet family at the airport to drive together out to Union WA. If we are running late and need to keep moving , Uber is a nice alternative and the ones I have used in Seattle have been great. 
With two major ocean cruises before this trip, its a plus to have help and get the planning out of way!


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## JWM (Oct 3, 2022)

As a general rule of thumb, most airport car rentals have a variety of fees, taxes, service charges etc. Sometimes Enterprise gets around them by picking up clients, sometimes not. You can get into downtown Seattle easily via 
public transit.


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## Mikay (Oct 3, 2022)

So if I wanted to ride westbound from Portage, WI to a point where I could get off, grab a bite to eat, explore for an hour or two the next day and then ride back east to Portage, at what point would that be?


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## Northwestern (Oct 3, 2022)

I see that the westbound Builder leaves Portage at 6:24 PM. Would your plan be to get off the train and spend the night at another town that same evening, or spend the night on the train then detrain, somewhere, in the morning? If the latter, you have a lot of choices. 

If your plan is to get off the train and find lodging, that same night, I might choose either La Crosse, WI (arrives 8:04 PM) or Winona, MN (arrives 8:34 PM) or Red Wing, MN (arrives 9:42 PM). All 3 seem to have plenty of good lodging, restaurants, and things to do and see.

Richard


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## WWW (Oct 3, 2022)

La Crosse would be your best bet. Winona next. Red Wing limited time next day. As for Tomah and the Dells you are close
enough to forgo those. Extending to the St Paul Minneapolis (arriving 10:56pm and departing 08:50am) that is not workable.
Bear in mind the Empire Builder has its hits and misses with scheduling - it is improving - but a late #7 westbound and an
early #8 eastbound results in just riding a train and not much exploring - eating/grabbing a bite to eat have not given any
thought to that - the depots don't offer any food fast or otherwise - lucky to find a concession machine
Your best laid plan would be to make a two dayer of this.

Everything in perfect schedule harmony trains (MEET/PASS) 7 & 8 between Glenview Station and Milwaukee -OR- Detroit Lakes and Fargo
Malta and Havre ----- Spokane (junction with 27 & 28)


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## justinslot (Oct 4, 2022)

Taking the Empire Builder for the first time Friday...is there a stop like Albuquerque with the Southwest Chief?
Meaning is there a very long stop with a conveniently located grocery store a block from the station where you can run to and pick up snacks and wine?

I am guessing Albuquerque is special in this regard, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 4, 2022)

Minot is a long stop, though not as long as Albuquerque. I don't know if there are grocery stores within walking distance. Also, eastbound Minot is fairly late in the evening.


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## justinslot (Oct 4, 2022)

Huh there is a Stop and Shop a few blocks away but Google maps does not make the area look particularly pedestrian friendly, and an 8 minute walk at night (per Google maps) through unfamiliar territory seems a bit too risky to me (if the train even gets there on time since the Stop and Shop closes at 10.)


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## zephyr17 (Oct 4, 2022)

justinslot said:


> Huh there is a Stop and Shop a few blocks away but Google maps does not make the area look particularly pedestrian friendly, and an 8 minute walk at night (per Google maps) through unfamiliar territory seems a bit too risky to me (if the train even gets there on time since the Stop and Shop closes at 10.)


8 minutes there, 8 minutes back, 5 minutes to do your business. 21 minutes minimum. Minot is scheduled for a 45 minute dwell each direction, so I'd do it only if it were on time or early.

Also, eastbound it isn't even scheduled to arrive until 10:04 pm. So it would have to be significantly early to even try to squeeze in before it closes.


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## uncleboots (Oct 5, 2022)

The MSP-SP is a pretty nice stop to get out and stretch.


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## mmcpparties (Oct 5, 2022)

Acela150 said:


> Their is one Conductor from Shelby who enforces a strcit 30 minute time limit in the SSL through Glacier so others can have a chance to see it from the SSL.
> 
> 
> I can tell you what happens. I used to do this routinely when I was an SCA on the EB. When the current occupants are at a meal service we change the sheets out, and do some other things that most passengers don't notice. However, if their is a difficult passenger in that room who doesn't want to leave or move their stuff, etc. We'll let them get off, and when the pax who is in that room says I'm in room XYZ what I would do is politely explain that their room was just vacanted and I would need about 30 minutes to properly disinfect and clean their room, and would either re-accomdate them in antoher room if possible, or ask them to go to the SSL. As soon as I would say that, everyone was understanding and I always got the words "Thank you"!
> ...


I’m coming into Chicago on the EB and then need to get to the airport ORD. Any thoughts?


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## jis (Oct 5, 2022)

mmcpparties said:


> I’m coming into Chicago on the EB and then need to get to the airport ORD. Any thoughts?


If you don't have too much baggage then take the CTA Blue Line from Clinton Station a few blocks south of Union Station all the way to its last stop heading north at ORD.


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## Amtrakfan7 (Nov 6, 2022)

Does the WB empire builder have lunch before arriving in Seattle


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## Maglev (Nov 6, 2022)

Amtrakfan7 said:


> Does the WB empire builder have lunch before arriving in Seattle


Welcome to the forum! I hope you let us know how your trip goes.

Lunch is not served, and breakfast usually starts and ends early.


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## Siegmund (Nov 7, 2022)

As Maglev said, the Builder crew has a particular obsession with closing down the diner 3 hours before arrival so they have time to...um... do whatever it is they do when the diner is closed. Last call for breakfast is when you go through the Cascade Tunnel.

Before the schedule change this summer, that meant breakfast seating ran from about 6:00 to 6:30 and they planned to have everybody out of the car before 7:30. When I board in Whitefish the sleeper attendant makes a point of saying "you will only get breakfast if you get up early." Presumably one bonus of running the train an hour later is that you'll now have until 7:30 to get breakfast.

Arrival in Seattle, if on time, is before lunchtime still.


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## Rasputin (Nov 7, 2022)

Siegmund said:


> As Maglev said, the Builder crew has a particular obsession with closing down the diner 3 hours before arrival so they have time to...um... do whatever it is they do when the diner is closed. Last call for breakfast is when you go through the Cascade Tunnel.


I was not positively impressed by the breakfast situation on the westbound Empire Builder before arrival in Seattle some years ago. It seemed to me that the LSA announced on the train loudspeaker that the dining car was open for breakfast and about 15 minutes later, without any prior warning, announced that the dining car was closed for breakfast.


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## Lonnie (Nov 8, 2022)

We'll be going east on the EB in mid-December. Any tricks we should know about for greatest enjoyment?


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## Rasputin (Nov 8, 2022)

Lonnie said:


> We'll be going east on the EB in mid-December. Any tricks we should know about for greatest enjoyment?


I would say that the best scenery of your trip will be on the first morning eastbound from Libby and Whitefish east to East Glacier and Browning. I do not know what time daylight is at this time of year there but I suggest that you research it, get up early, have breakfast early and enjoy the scenery in the morning. You can nap later in the day when crossing the plains.

Hope you have a great trip and will post a report of your trip.


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## mgkeihl (Nov 9, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I would say that the best scenery of your trip will be on the first morning eastbound from Libby and Whitefish east to East Glacier and Browning. I do not know what time daylight is at this time of year there but I suggest that you research it, get up early, have breakfast early and enjoy the scenery in the morning. You can nap later in the day when crossing the plains.
> 
> Hope you have a great trip and will post a report of your trip.


Agreed, east bound was great, starting by going along the puget sound, in April eastern Washington was bathed in fields of blooming apple trees carpeted in daffodils, through Glacier, the Badlands, Missouri River. I loved the last day along the Mississippi River! Enjoy your trip!


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## Willbridge (Nov 10, 2022)

And looking eastbound, when my dad learned that I was taking my family on a park-n-ride trip from Cut Bank to Seattle and Portland he commented "Cut Bank? That's where the Great Northern ran out of scenery!"

Here's how it looked when he rode it eastbound in the winter.


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## Lonnie (Nov 11, 2022)

Rasputin said:


> I would say that the best scenery of your trip will be on the first morning eastbound from Libby and Whitefish east to East Glacier and Browning. I do not know what time daylight is at this time of year there but I suggest that you research it, get up early, have breakfast early and enjoy the scenery in the morning. You can nap later in the day when crossing the plains.
> 
> Hope you have a great trip and will post a report of your trip.


Thank you, and will do!


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## TimePeace (Tuesday at 3:51 PM)

I see a number of threads titled CZ Discussion, LSL Discussion, CS Discussion, etc. near the top of this forum. While there are specifics relating to the EB considerably lower down and older, I am starting this new one as a general Q & A. If A moderator needs to merge with another thread, so be it.

My questions are, how is this winter's weather affecting the Builder's OTP, cancellations and or re-routing? Anyone have thoughts about booking a trip in the next month or two?

I intend to go BOS to SEA, and all of the other Western trains seem heavily impacted by weather lately.

Also, dining experiences? Recent Covid precautions and enforcement? Other thoughts?

Thanks,

D.


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## RalphCT (Wednesday at 10:40 AM)

The empire Builder has been seriously impacted by severe winter weather, problems with the new locomotives and heavy freight traffic and freight breakdowns. Winter on the Empire Builder has always been a crap shoot IMO. I have a couple of horror stories about lengthy delays including one of 30 hours. Given this history I do have a Shelby to Seattle round trip reservation but it's not until late March and mid April.


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## Willbridge (Thursday at 1:30 AM)

The _Empire Builder _was the first long-distance train to get Superliners, due to struggles with aging steam heat systems.

Train 7 in Minneapolis GN Station in December 1975.


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## JayPea (Thursday at 3:38 AM)

Dining is back to traditional dining, and is quite good in my opinion. There are no Covid protocols in place, but you can feel free to continue to wear a mask if you so choose.


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## Bonser (Thursday at 8:09 AM)

JayPea said:


> Dining is back to traditional dining, and is quite good in my opinion. There are no Covid protocols in place, but you can feel free to continue to wear a mask if you so choose.





TimePeace said:


> I see a number of threads titled CZ Discussion, LSL Discussion, CS Discussion, etc. near the top of this forum. While there are specifics relating to the EB considerably lower down and older, I am starting this new one as a general Q & A. If A moderator needs to merge with another thread, so be it.
> 
> My questions are, how is this winter's weather affecting the Builder's OTP, cancellations and or re-routing? Anyone have thoughts about booking a trip in the next month or two?
> 
> ...


I'm taking the EB in late March as part of a cross country trip from NYP. We're taking the LSL and connecting to the EB going all the way to Seattle. We annually travel via rail to SF but this year decided to get there after stopping in Seattle for a few days before taking the southbound CS to Emeryville. I've never taken the EB westbound before and wanted to know what to expect.


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## TimePeace (Friday at 10:59 AM)

What's the current (Winter 2023) Consist?


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## Maglev (Friday at 11:45 AM)

TimePeace said:


> What's the current (Winter 2023) Consist?


Seattle section:
One or two locomotives
Baggage car
Transition/Dorm
Sleeper
Diner
Coach

Portland Section:
Locomotive
Sightseer Lounge
Coach
Coach/baggage
Sleeper

Over the last six years (I wasn't paying close attention before that), there has been added occasionally: another Seattle sleeper, another Seattle coach, and another Portland sleeper. At one time (I think summers around the mid 2000's), the _Empire Builder _had two dining cars, with different menus. It was probably running with more sleepers and coaches then also.


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