# Sunset Limited Pre Amtrak With Automat Lunch Counter



## seat38a (Sep 22, 2014)

Has anyone here taken the SL pre Amtrak when it had no dining car and just a automat lunch counter? From what I read, during the automat period, there were no sleepers as well. Any pictures of these automat cars?


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## FriskyFL (Sep 22, 2014)

The spectre of Amtrak's future, perhaps?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 22, 2014)

I rode one of these "Run 'em off!" Specials that SP ran! The cars were dirty, hot and the crews were hostile because they were " just following orders!" It was a long way from the Glory days of the Sunset Ltd. And the Sunset Route!

What I remember most was the attendant that was there to make change for the machines expected a tip for this! ( Sort of like Vegas without th fun and a slim chance to win!)


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## seat38a (Sep 22, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> I rode one of these "Run 'em off!" Specials that SP ran! The cars were dirty, hot and the crews were hostile because they were " just following orders!" It was a long way from the Glory days of the Sunset Ltd. And the Sunset Route!
> 
> What I remember most was the attendant that was there to make change for the machines expected a tip for this! ( Sort of like Vegas without th fun and a slim chance to win!)


So in this case, Amtrak was a 1000% improvement over what SP towards the end. Amazing that since 1971, the SL has not been increased to daily. The three times a week was an Southern Pacific thing and Amtrak never increased it to daily.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 22, 2014)

I have seen the Automatic Buffet Car Menu and it makes the current Lounge offerings look First Class.


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## wmk (Sep 22, 2014)

I rode it in 1968 and 1969.My first time to see a microwave .The automat was one of SPs steel smooth sided cars. The train was a mixture of them and the Sunset/Golden state fluted side coaches.The train was clean and attendants were helpful;The automat attendant groused that he wished he had taken severence pay and could be working in a resturant,in stead of riding a train and sleeping in a coach seat........Amtrak bought the flute side coaches and last I checked they are still rolling as baggage cars.The automats never made it to Amtrak.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 22, 2014)

wmk said:


> The automats never made it to Amtrak.


How is today's Amtrak cafe substantially different from the automat era? They're still selling frozen food heated in a microwave with drinks that require no refrigeration. I've seen vending machines with the same products Amtrak sells from their cafe menu.


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## seat38a (Sep 22, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> wmk said:
> 
> 
> > The automats never made it to Amtrak.
> ...


For one thing, I'm guessing the "heated" is a big difference. Not sure when microwaves became affordable and common place but I don't think those were common on the trains back then.


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## seat38a (Sep 22, 2014)

seat38a said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> > wmk said:
> ...


Never mind. I should have read up higher.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 22, 2014)

Also Keep in mind that SP pulled the Sleepers and Diner off the Sunset Ltd. Which back in the day was a Premium Train! What was left was some ratty old Coaches with, as has been said, heat and eat crap and bad attitude OBS that had to live on these rolling cattle cars during their turns!!


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## Bill Haithcoat (Sep 24, 2014)

Did you google? You will find some photos that way.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Sep 24, 2014)

Don't the train in North Carolina have a few vending machines where you can buy food and drinks? I guess that would be the closest thing still in service today.

here are some photos on the NC State Trains from AU member SubwayNut

http://subwaynut.com/updates/2014/07/16/the-research-triangle-via-the-piedmont-triad-including-the-nc-amtrak-connector-bus-to-charlotte/


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## zephyr17 (Sep 24, 2014)

seat38a said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > I rode one of these "Run 'em off!" Specials that SP ran! The cars were dirty, hot and the crews were hostile because they were " just following orders!" It was a long way from the Glory days of the Sunset Ltd. And the Sunset Route!
> ...


The Sunset got its sleepers and dining (coffee shop) service back just before the end as part of a deal with the ICC in 1970. The ICC agreed to approve reducing the train to 3 days a week in exchange for SP reinstating sleeping car and dining service. The reinstated sleeping car actually ran through to New York in conjunction with the Southern. The ICC had been trying to force the SP to reinstate sleepers and diners, but its authority to regulate the onboard services was doubtful (the "Adequacies" case).

It is conceivable that had the daily gutted version of SP's Sunset ran a few more months until Amtrak, the train would have started off daily on Amtrak and remained daily. Amtrak would have restored the amenities, as they did with other formerly SP trains such as the Coast Daylight/Starlight getting its dining car back on the 4 days of the week it ran as the "Daylight" LAX-OAK only. The 3 times a week through train to/from Seattle had a diner from Day One, since the through train basically inherited the Cascade's (OAK-PDX) DNA, not the Daylight's, and the Cascade was one of the two SP trains that never lost dining service. The other one that SP had kept dining service on was the City of San Francisco.


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## zephyr17 (Sep 24, 2014)

One other historical note is the original NRPC route plan did not have either the Sunset, nor what became the Starlight north/south service along the West Coast. The only SP train on the original plan was the Chicago-San Francisco train west of Ogden.

SP President Biaggini was very close to Richard Nixon and there was a lot of speculation that the near-exclusion of SP lines from NRPC operating responsibilities was a result of that influence.

The proposal caused an uproar and the route plan was changed to include north/south West Coast service as well as the Sunset before A-Day.


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## railiner (Sep 25, 2014)

zephyr17 said:


> seat38a said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...


Another example in that era, of a railroad enhancing services on a train, in exchange for permission from the ICC to discontinue other's on its route, was that of Norfolk and Western's "Pocahontas", which even gained a dome car for its Norfolk to Cincinnati run. They dropped the "Powhattan Arrow" and I believe one other along a part of that route.

I still have a nice souvenir welome aboard packet of goodies given to its passenger's in my "archives"....


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## Anderson (Sep 25, 2014)

zephyr17 said:


> One other historical note is the original NRPC route plan did not have either the Sunset, nor what became the Starlight north/south service along the West Coast. The only SP train on the original plan was the Chicago-San Francisco train west of Ogden.
> 
> SP President Biaggini was very close to Richard Nixon and there was a lot of speculation that the near-exclusion of SP lines from NRPC operating responsibilities was a result of that influence.
> 
> The proposal caused an uproar and the route plan was changed to include north/south West Coast service as well as the Sunset before A-Day.


Is this the same guy who tried the vanpool stunt later on?


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## NS VIA Fan (Sep 25, 2014)

For your dining pleasure between LA & New Orleans…..


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## zephyr17 (Sep 25, 2014)

Anderson said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > One other historical note is the original NRPC route plan did not have either the Sunset, nor what became the Starlight north/south service along the West Coast. The only SP train on the original plan was the Chicago-San Francisco train west of Ogden.
> ...


Yep


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## seat38a (Sep 25, 2014)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> Did you google? You will find some photos that way.


Sure did, nothing interesting. Just the exteriors and some crappy interior pics. Google is the FIRST thing I checked.


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## seat38a (Sep 25, 2014)

NS VIA Fan said:


> For your dining pleasure between LA & New Orleans…..


Wow that menu actually sounds tastier than the garbage they sell in the current cafe cars.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2014)

They should have contracted with Horn and Hardart to operate the Automat cars.....


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## toddinde (Dec 1, 2019)

seat38a said:


> For one thing, I'm guessing the "heated" is a big difference. Not sure when microwaves became affordable and common place but I don't think those were common on the trains back then.


The Automat cars had microwaves.


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## peteypablo (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm living in Italy presently and ride the FrecciaRossa and Italo every chance I get. They have vending machines on these high speed trains and the Freccias running during mealtimes also have a small dining car.


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## jis (Dec 2, 2019)

Boy! A thread brought back from zombieland after 5 years! It was disconcerting to see Bill Haithcoat's, may his soul rest in peace, post suddenly pop up!


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 2, 2019)

jis said:


> Boy! A thread brought back from zombieland after 5 years! It was disconcerting to see Bill Haithcoat's, may his soul rest in peace, post suddenly pop up!


And look @ those prices!!( as one who actually rode the SP Trains with the Automat Car, Trust me it was NOT Good!!)


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 2, 2019)

Bob Dylan said:


> as one who actually rode the SP Trains with the Automat Car, Trust me it was NOT Good!!


Maybe, but nothing says contemporary like an Automat.


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## Twin Star Rocket (Jan 20, 2020)

When I rode Amtrak's SUNSET LIMITED in spring of 1972 there was an automat car in the consist in addition
to a full diner. First and only train I rode that had one.


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## Mailliw (Jul 30, 2020)

seat38a said:


> Wow that menu actually sounds tastier than the garbage they sell in the current cafe cars.


I'm surprised you could get hard liquor and cocktails from what's basically a vending machine.


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## me_little_me (Jul 30, 2020)

Mailliw said:


> I'm surprised you could get hard liquor and cocktails from what's basically a vending machine.


I'm insulted and demand satisfaction - pistols tomorrow at dawn. Name your Second, sir! Calling an Automat a vending machine is like calling a 5 star Michelin rated restaurant, a diner! Hrumphhf!

On a trip back home to NYC in the '80s, we saw an Automat and we took the kids in there. They were amazed! They couldn't believe there were real people on the other side of the wall that actually manually refilled slots as they were emptied. They, now in their 40s, still remember that visit.


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## ehbowen (Jul 31, 2020)

Mailliw said:


> I'm surprised you could get hard liquor and cocktails from what's basically a vending machine.



The cars had an attendant; the attendant was the one who sold the alcoholic beverages. Matter of fact, I've heard (on the "Sunset Transcon" video DVD) that back in the day the vending machines were in such a constant state of disrepair that the standard practice was to hand your money to the attendant, who would open the machines with a key and hand you your purchase. He wanted a tip for that, too...


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 31, 2020)

ehbowen said:


> The cars had an attendant; the attendant was the one who sold the alcoholic beverages. Matter of fact, I've heard (on the "Sunset Transcon" video DVD) that back in the day the vending machines were in such a constant state of disrepair that the standard practice was to hand your money to the attendant, who would open the machines with a key and hand you your purchase. He wanted a tip for that, too...


Ah, the SP " Run 'em off" Vending Machine days.I remember it well,but not fondly.


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## railiner (Jul 31, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Ah, the SP " Run 'em off" Vending Machine days.I remember it well,but not fondly.


What, the _Friendly Southern Pacific?_


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## Willbridge (Aug 1, 2020)

railiner said:


> What, the _Friendly Southern Pacific?_



One of the few things that Phil Anschutz said publicly when he bought the SP was that he was surprised to find that so many people hated it. My dad, who grew up in Oregon, had a chuckle when I told him that. One clue was that even when I went to school, Frank Norris' book _The Octopus _was on the recommended reading list in high school. The other clue is how beloved James Hill was. Just behaving decently seemed to be a new concept.

I did some arithmetic and figured out that the regulators, senior journalists, and politicians that the Colorado billiionaire had to deal with were college kids when the SP reached the high point (or low point) of their anti-passenger campaign. Baby boomer college students were among the last passenger markets to surrender. Anschutz was dealing with people who had probably waited all their life to get even for some Friendly SP treatment.

[Note to people who believe in "forgive or forget" -- in Denver's RTD we were publicly blasted for having discontinued the East 25th Avenue line. I determined that it was part of a major streetcar service reduction in 1930. Sixty years later, people were still sore about it.]


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## jruff001 (Aug 5, 2020)

seat38a said:


> Wow that menu actually sounds tastier than the garbage they sell in the current cafe cars.


Seriously? "Prunes in syrup"?


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## me_little_me (Aug 5, 2020)

jruff001 said:


> Seriously? "Prunes in syrup"?


For those on the go!


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 5, 2020)

jruff001 said:


> Seriously? "Prunes in syrup"?


Ask your Grandparents!


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## jiml (Aug 5, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> For those on the go!


...or those who want to be!


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## Willbridge (Aug 5, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Ask your Grandparents!


In Canada they were known as "CPR strawberries" as they were at one time a regular menu feature.


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## Willbridge (Aug 5, 2020)

ehbowen said:


> The cars had an attendant; the attendant was the one who sold the alcoholic beverages. Matter of fact, I've heard (on the "Sunset Transcon" video DVD) that back in the day the vending machines were in such a constant state of disrepair that the standard practice was to hand your money to the attendant, who would open the machines with a key and hand you your purchase. He wanted a tip for that, too...


I made a trip on the _Cascade _when they tried the automat cars. Until I actually experienced it I had an open mind about the concept, but after trying it... ! I think that part of the technical trouble was that the machines weren't built to handle the vibration and voltage variations.

Of course, the diner on the _Sunset _prior to the automat had fallen on hard times. A college friend whose screen name was George Winslow had some intermittent income from films shown on tv and made a trip on the Sunset to spend it wisely - he thought. He ordered the "salmon steak dinner" and he said that it was flaked salmon extruded from a tin, so that it had a seam down one side. The cylinder of salmon was garnished with a single piece of parsley and served on a giant plate. George was a great raconteur with Hollywood stories, but having grown up in the San Fernando Valley he could tell SP stories delivered factually that were so sad that one had to laugh.

The irony of all this is that the NP and GN gracefully shrank their passenger service without resorting to SP style tactics, paid dividends to their shareholders and didn't raise near the public uproar.


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