# New York to Chicago



## Tsuyoshi (Mar 29, 2012)

So, I live in New York and my brother is getting married in Chicago this Saturday, March 31. I have taken intercity trains in a few other countries before, but never before here, in my home country. So I am going to offer some comparisons to other rail systems.

Before this trip, I looked at the other options, plane and bus, and rejected them. One option, Greyhound, I rejected because in my experience it is unreliable and... filled with people I don't want to be sitting near for several hours. Otherwise I could have maybe taken Megabus, which I have had good experiences with in the past, but there's no direct route and it would have required two transfers.

Plane I rejected for a number of reasons. First, because it was slightly more expensive. The base fare was actually slightly cheaper, but the costs of getting to and from the airports in New York and Chicago more than made up for that. Then there is the fact that I hate planes. Cramped seats, having to take off your shoes, having my luggage searched, having to turn off my cell phone on the plane, etc. And, unless I wanted to pay a couple hundred dollars extra, the flight schedules were extremely inconvenient.

So anyway, I reserved a coach trip on the Lake Shore Limited, departing New York on March 27 and arriving March 28. I left home that day at about noon, took the 1 train down to 34th Street, printed my tickets, and checked one suitcase. Then I wandered around Herald Square for a few hours. I work near there, and usually when I go into stores in the area it's after work, around 7-8PM, so I was a little suprised to see that most everything is pretty empty at this time of day. By New York standards, anyway... I guess if you compare to other American cities it's pretty crowded no matter when you're shopping.

Anyway, I went back to Penn Station, bought a sandwich and some donuts, waited for the track to be announced, and then got on the train. I was shocked at how spacious the seats were. I would almost say there is too much leg room. It left on time. I was sitting on the left, to better see the Hudson River, although it's not all that new to me since I basically live on the river, on Riverside Drive.

I was surprised by how bumpy the ride was. I've taken Metro North trains on the Hudson Line before and they are much smoother. So I guess this is because Amtrak equipment is older. Compared to the trains I took in Japan and Thailand, Amtrak is a pretty bumpy ride. But I think it's about as bumpy as the train I once took between Amsterdam and Paris.

After a while I got bored looking at the river, and took a walk through most of the train. I think the train was about 4/5 empty. All of the passengers that were going all the way to Chicago, like I was, were in one car, which was about half-full. The other cars had maybe a couple dozen passengers all together. Throughout the length of the trip, this didn't really change.

The rest of the trip was pretty uneventful... until we got to Toledo. Then I discovered that before I even got on this train, there was a freight train derailment in Indiana, and we were taking the bus the rest of the way to Chicago. So, I gathered my things, got off the train, and got on the bus. Nothing terribly unusual about the bus ride, except that since I just got off the spacious Amtrak train, it felt very cramped.

I can't remember if I felt more depressed or angry. This was complicated by the fact that I wasn't sure who to blame. It's not Amtrak's fault, surely, since it was not their train that derailed, nor even their tracks. But still, I've taken thousands of train trips, perhaps a couple dozen of them on long distance, intercity trips, and I have never before encountered a problem due to a derailment. That it happened on my very first Amtrak trip is, of course, coincidental, but disturbing.

Other than the discomfort, it was not a big deal. One bus made all stops between Toledo and Chicago. The smokers and people headed for those stops got on that bus. The other buses (if I remember correctly, there were 3 of them) went straight to Chicago. We arrived at Union Station in Chicago 15 minutes ahead of schedule, at 9:30AM.

I had a hotel reservation in Aurora, but check-in wasn't until 3PM. So, reading that Amtrak would hold my suitcase for free, I decided to take the El up to Logan Square and hit a Polish buffet. I used to live in Chicago, and while there are Polish restaurants in New York, there are no Polish buffets. I ate more than I should, and went back to Union Station.

Went into the baggage claim area, and there was no baggage. Hmm. Asked the attendent there, and he said to go talk to Customer Service. Went to Customer Service, and the woman there said that the man I needed was in a meeting, but... anyway I will spare the rest of the details, but two hours later I had my bag. So I recommend not taking advantage of this "free 48 hour storage" deal.

Took Metra to Route 59 Station in Aurora. Notwithstanding my earlier complaints about Amtrak being a little bumpy, Metra is absolutely horrible. It feels like a Cambodian bus. Or well - I didn't fear for my life on this Metra train, like I usually did on Cambodian buses, because we're at least on rails so we're probably not going to hit anything, but it was pretty noisy and shaky. I used to live in the Chicago suburbs, and while I never commuted to the city, I took Metra more than a few times and I don't remember it being this bad. I happened to read recently that they are replacing their equipment soon, so I hope it happens quickly.

Anyway, overall, there was good and bad. I will be returning to New York on Sunday, April 1, so hopefully they will have regular service restored between Chicago and Toledo by then, and I can see how I feel about a trip that goes entirely by train. I liked the portion between New York and Toledo. I think that I will probably not fly again to anything at this distance or shorter, since the schedules coming out of New York are pretty convenient, even if they are sparse outside of the Northeast Regional. Going to the west coast, I'm not sure the comfort makes up for the extra time required. Airline security theater is so annoying that I will consider it, at least. Not sure if I would ever feel compelled to pay for a sleeper. Maybe if my wife wanted to, but she's even a bigger cheapskate than I am, so probably not. I thought the coach seats were great.

Now, let me compare Amtrak to intercity trains in other countries.

Compared to JR in Japan, Amtrak is kind of depressing. The Shinkansen is phenomenal of course, but I have to say that even intercity buses in Japan provide a better experience than trains in the US. Just the stations are much better designed. This whole crowd-by-the-departure-monitor-until-the-track-is-announced nonsense at Penn Station (which is not an Amtrak-specific thing, they do it for Long Island Rail Road and New Jersey Transit too) doesn't exist. And they have better local transit connections, etc. If you ever want to see train service done right, go to Tokyo. I guarantee when you come back to the US you will be seriously depressed.

But, Amtrak is considerably cheaper than JR. In Japan what you typically do to save money (other than take the bus, which is super cheap, same deal as Megabus or Boltbus here) is go to a discount ticket shop, which buys train tickets in bulk at a discount and then resells them. I like that I can just get a decent Amtrak fare by reserving ahead of time, without any other shenanigans.

Amtrak doesn't compare well to Thai Railways either, unfortunately. Thailand is cheap in general, so of course they win on price, but the train in Thailand is astoundingly so (I paid about $10 for a sleeper from Bangkok to Nong Khai). It's also more reliable, and has a smooth ride, which is not quite what you might expect in a country where most things are done half-assed. The long distance trains are about the only thing I like about Thailand, to be perfectly honest.

Compared to the Thalys that I took between the Netherlands and France, I would actually say Amtrak is comparable, aside from the Thalys being much faster. The Thalys is pretty bumpy, is reasonably priced, with frequent-enough schedules. Compared to the KTM train I took between Malaysia and Thailand, I would say it's also similar.

I imagine I'll have more to say on Monday.


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## JamesI (Mar 29, 2012)

Thanks for the report. I had heard that due to the derailment the bussed passengers arrived much later (that may have been those on the non direct bus) so its good to hear it wasn't that bad.

Looking forward to the follow up report and hoping you get through on the train no issues.

I will be on the LSL myself in 3 weeks, for my first Amtrak trip.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 29, 2012)

:hi: Thanks for Posting, Interesting stuff! Glad you enjoyed your Train ride in Coach, let me suggest that you consider riding a Regional to Washington (WAS), then catching the Capitol Ltd. to CHI. This way you will get to experience a Superliner LD Train (Double Deck), which has even more Room in Coach, a Sightseer Lounge, Enhanced Food Service in the Diner, and some pretty nice Scenery! All of the Western Trains out of Chicago (CHI) are also Superliners, so if you bought a Rail Pass you could ride all over the Country for what is really a Deal!  (15 Days/8 Segments-$429!!!!)


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## greatcats (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you for your review. I am a big fan of Amtrak, in spite of some of its faults, but have enjoyed my trips in recent months, which were in sleepers. I have also ridden numerous trains in Japan ( on my own ) and took an overnight trip about ten years ago in Thailand from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. I was with a tour group on that run. The equipment was not exactly plush and modern, but I recall dinner was served at one's sleeper seat ( I love Thai food and plan on having some tonight in Arizona ) and the traditional style lower berth was absolutely the best night's sleep I ever had on a train. On my overnight trip this past week from Flagstaff to LAX, my quality of sleep was terrible, although the train itself was fine.


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## Tsuyoshi (Mar 29, 2012)

JamesI said:


> Thanks for the report. I had heard that due to the derailment the bussed passengers arrived much later (that may have been those on the non direct bus) so its good to hear it wasn't that bad.
> 
> Looking forward to the follow up report and hoping you get through on the train no issues.
> 
> I will be on the LSL myself in 3 weeks, for my first Amtrak trip.


When I was in the Customer Service office trying to get my bag, there were quite a few people who arrived late on the Capitol Limited who had missed their connections. So apparently that bus was slower for some reason. That might have been what you heard about.

The interesting thing I noticed was, people who missed train connections got either a hotel room and a ride on the next train, or a Greyhound ticket plus taxi fare to the Greyhound station. But the people who had a bus connection (booked through Amtrak) only got a refund, and were told to go to the Greyhound station by themselves and buy a new bus ticket.


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## Tsuyoshi (Apr 3, 2012)

The wedding was interesting. My brother and his wife come from quite different backgrounds. Perhaps not as different as me and my wife, but that's a whole other story. I saw a couple of my cousins for the first time, and some aunts and uncles for the first time in a decade. Also, separately I met up with a friend who was my brother's former roommate. (That roommate situation didn't work out too well, so he wasn't invited to the wedding.) The area around where my brother lives now is very suburban, and from the perspective of a person who chooses to live in Manhattan, downright inhumane. Actually even my father, who lives in the Seattle suburbs, remarked on how enormous the parking lots were along Route 59. But anyway...

On my return trip, I went with my parents in their rented car to O'Hare Airport and see them off to Seattle. Then I got on the CTA Blue Line and went to the Loop. On that train I met another guy headed to Union Station and we helped keep each other from getting lost. It's not a long walk, but it is curious that the El does not exactly connect with either Ogilvie or Union. It would be nice if they showed these stations on the El map like they show Penn and Grand Central on the New York Subway Map.

Got to the station, checked my bag, and then looked for something to buy that could eat on the train. Unfortunately, almost everything is closed there at night. Going outside the station doesn't help too much either, as the Loop is generally pretty dead after 8PM. Quite a difference from Penn Station in New York, where most everything is open late, and many places never close. Chicago, you seriously need to step up your game. Even Penn Station in Newark is livelier than this.

The return train was probably 80% full, which was quite different from the trip to Chicago. This might have been because this return train was leaving Sunday night, or it might have been because of the derailment that interrupted service on the first train.

I don't know what else to say about the return trip. Nothing really happened. The bathrooms in my car ran out of water while I washing my hands, but whatever, there were other bathrooms to use. We arrived in Penn Station 10 minutes early. I went over to the baggage claim, which was closed. They had a sign that explained that it took 30 minutes for baggage to arrive from the train, but it didn't take anywhere near that long. It might have been 10 minutes. I picked up my suitcase, then went straight for the subway, renewed my 30-day Metrocard which had expired while I was in Chicago, and headed for the 1 train.

Overall, it was a pleasant experience. It was much better than flying. I expect to live in New York for the rest of my life, and if I go to Chicago again, I will definitely take Amtrak. On the other hand, while the schedule is convenient for going to Chicago, I don't think it is very convenient at all for going to Cleveland or Detroit. For anything on the east coast though, Amtrak seems like the best option.


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## Blackwolf (Apr 3, 2012)

Amtrak is convenient to access a great many places, but there are just as many that are indeed not so nice in terms of what hour you get in. I call it that happy-medium zone, and thankfully it is up to us as travelers to decide what is worth it in terms of our time and dollar for travel. From what it sounds like, you had a nice introduction to Long-Distance rail and that you would be willing to do such a trip again. Many on this forum would agree, if you are in the market for another overnight itinerary again, try a sleeper. The cost, depending on which price bucket you are able to access, can be astoundingly in the bargain range if you factor in all the things you get. Certainly consider it, if you can!

In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation. Having gone round-trip transcontinental over a dozen times in a car all through my childhood, I know first-hand that the train is quicker than driving while also being massively cheaper. You miss out on the opportunity to randomly split from the interstate and check out things like the Worlds Largest Teflon Skillet and its ilk, but you get to see a great deal more scenery-wise while having those nice little perks of restrooms, dining options and sleeping accommodations traveling with you at 79 mph. New York City to San Francisco in three and a 3/4 days is a darn nice trip, and you can be pretty darn rested at the end of it instead of needing a chiropractor to combat being cooped up in your Honda Civic for four days or more.

Hope to see you out on the rails again soon!


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## guest (Apr 3, 2012)

Blackwolf said:


> Amtrak is convenient to access a great many places, but there are just as many that are indeed not so nice in terms of what hour you get in. I call it that happy-medium zone, and thankfully it is up to us as travelers to decide what is worth it in terms of our time and dollar for travel. From what it sounds like, you had a nice introduction to Long-Distance rail and that you would be willing to do such a trip again. Many on this forum would agree, if you are in the market for another overnight itinerary again, try a sleeper. The cost, depending on which price bucket you are able to access, can be astoundingly in the bargain range if you factor in all the things you get. Certainly consider it, if you can!
> 
> In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation. Having gone round-trip transcontinental over a dozen times in a car all through my childhood, I know first-hand that the train is quicker than driving while also being massively cheaper. You miss out on the opportunity to randomly split from the interstate and check out things like the Worlds Largest Teflon Skillet and its ilk, but you get to see a great deal more scenery-wise while having those nice little perks of restrooms, dining options and sleeping accommodations traveling with you at 79 mph. New York City to San Francisco in three and a 3/4 days is a darn nice trip, and you can be pretty darn rested at the end of it instead of needing a chiropractor to combat being cooped up in your Honda Civic for four days or more.
> 
> Hope to see you out on the rails again soon!


*In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation*

That sure eliminates 990% of the competition! :wacko:


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## Blackwolf (Apr 3, 2012)

guest said:


> *In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation*
> 
> That sure eliminates 990% of the competition! :wacko:


Not quite. I would say that, while a majority do fly (and there is no manner of finding out the exact percentage available anywhere) the numbers are not nearly as high as people such as you assume. There are many millions who drive, and their reasons are just as numerous. I would wager my next paycheck that a very measurable number of people who are trying the train for the first time are doing so because driving is no longer economical for them, and flying is out of the question.

You should save yourself the hassle and just loose one of the nines next time there is a percentage involved, too. A lot less than 90% of the traveling public takes airlines for their trips.


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## Tsuyoshi (Apr 3, 2012)

Blackwolf said:


> In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation. Having gone round-trip transcontinental over a dozen times in a car all through my childhood, I know first-hand that the train is quicker than driving while also being massively cheaper. You miss out on the opportunity to randomly split from the interstate and check out things like the Worlds Largest Teflon Skillet and its ilk, but you get to see a great deal more scenery-wise while having those nice little perks of restrooms, dining options and sleeping accommodations traveling with you at 79 mph. New York City to San Francisco in three and a 3/4 days is a darn nice trip, and you can be pretty darn rested at the end of it instead of needing a chiropractor to combat being cooped up in your Honda Civic for four days or more.


Well, given that I don't have a driver's license anymore, I hadn't even considered driving to be an option. I was really thinking train versus airplane or bus.

But, back when I did drive, I made quite a few cross-country road trips -- about 20 or so -- and they were enjoyable in their own way. I can see a cross-country train trip having a similar sort of appeal. You have to plan it out a little more, but I think you can still be somewhat spontaneous by train.


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## guest in the west (Apr 3, 2012)

Blackwolf said:


> guest said:
> 
> 
> > *In terms of coast-to-coast travel I would also say that Amtrak is still pretty competitive for time and access convenience when you remove going by jetliner from the equation*
> ...


I imagine that the person meant 90%. But whatever, I'd be willing to wager that close to 90% of travelers going coast-to-coast fly and do not drive. I suspect that is what the person meant in responding to your post that mentioned coast-to-coast travel. I think you are probably right that less than 90% of ALL trips made are by plane.


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## montgomerySutton (Apr 4, 2012)

I'll be making this trip in reverse in just a couple weeks in coach, after taking a sleeper on the TE from DAL to CHI. With airfares as terrible as they are, and the need to get my guitar safely home (the last time I shipped it the hard case got really badly mangled; I'm not willing to risk that again), I figured it was time for my first true long distance train (longest I've done before is the full Adirondack). Did you happen to see any folks with guitars on your trip? Is there enough overhead space to put it there, or do folks tend to keep it between the legs? I'm not worried about the TE trip, because I've got a sleeper (It was way less than half the price of a sleeper on the CHI-NYP route, even though the trip is longer -- go figure!), but am a little worried about having to take some **** from people on the CHI-NYP...


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 4, 2012)

montgomerySutton said:


> I'll be making this trip in reverse in just a couple weeks in coach, after taking a sleeper on the TE from DAL to CHI. With airfares as terrible as they are, and the need to get my guitar safely home (the last time I shipped it the hard case got really badly mangled; I'm not willing to risk that again), I figured it was time for my first true long distance train (longest I've done before is the full Adirondack). Did you happen to see any folks with guitars on your trip? Is there enough overhead space to put it there, or do folks tend to keep it between the legs? I'm not worried about the TE trip, because I've got a sleeper (It was way less than half the price of a sleeper on the CHI-NYP route, even though the trip is longer -- go figure!), but am a little worried about having to take some **** from people on the CHI-NYP...


Shouldn't be any problem @ all re your Guitar!  You see folks with Guitars all the time on Trains, and there is plenty of Overhead room in the Rack over your Coach Seat from CHI-NYP for your Guitar! Might even run into some fellow passengers with Guitars that will want to jam in the Lounge! (easier on the Superliner TE than the Amfleet LSL!!!)


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## Tsuyoshi (Apr 5, 2012)

montgomerySutton said:


> I'll be making this trip in reverse in just a couple weeks in coach, after taking a sleeper on the TE from DAL to CHI. With airfares as terrible as they are, and the need to get my guitar safely home (the last time I shipped it the hard case got really badly mangled; I'm not willing to risk that again), I figured it was time for my first true long distance train (longest I've done before is the full Adirondack). Did you happen to see any folks with guitars on your trip? Is there enough overhead space to put it there, or do folks tend to keep it between the legs? I'm not worried about the TE trip, because I've got a sleeper (It was way less than half the price of a sleeper on the CHI-NYP route, even though the trip is longer -- go figure!), but am a little worried about having to take some **** from people on the CHI-NYP...


I didn't see anyone with a guitar, but there was plenty of overhead space. There is so much leg room that you wouldn't have any problem keeping it between your legs, either, but I doubt it would be necessary.


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 11, 2012)

one hint; you CAN connect to Union Station off the L train, it's a couple of blocks away. There is also the 151 bus that stops right there.

OK 2 hints... the second I have not checked out yet. True a lot of places close early but there is a McD's nearby, AND, on the other (west) side of the station I believe there is a Whole Foods... not sure what the hours are but they'd have to be open until 8 or 9?? :blink:


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## Steel City Don (Apr 11, 2012)

wow..thats early for Union station....


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