# Lake Shore Limited Business Class



## TylerP42 (Nov 24, 2016)

Lake Shore Limited's buisness class was completely empty this morning at Toledo.

When I went, it was me and 1 other person between Chicago and Toledo.

To quote an employee:

"It's a waste of time, money, and space"

So, how do you think this will go over? There were probably over 100 people boarding today. None got on buisnessclass.

The employee also said there was only 1 or 2 in there between Boston and Albany.


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## AmtrakBlue (Nov 24, 2016)

They probably need to move business class out of the column where the sleepers are listed so people will see it.


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## Blackwolf (Nov 24, 2016)

Kind of hard to fill a new class of service when nobody has a clue it exists. Amtrak has been failing in the realm of marketing and awareness here.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 24, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> They probably need to move business class out of the column where the sleepers are listed so people will see it.


Solution here.

Who other than the railfans knew the LSL had Business Class. Heck I was slight surprised by this tread. May have to turn in my "Foamers Card".


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## TylerP42 (Nov 24, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > They probably need to move business class out of the column where the sleepers are listed so people will see it.
> ...


I only know because I ride it often and I know multiple conductors on the route


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## PVD (Nov 24, 2016)

They have been adding B/C to more and more trains recently. In the case of the LSL it might do well if they let people know it exists, since the train is often heavily sold, roomettes often sold out, or only available at high bucket. Adding a quieter more private space could work out well, if the loss of table space on one side of the car doesn't hurt too much. You are adding additional revenue seats with no major added cost, you are pulling a lounge car from Boston anyway. NYP to Albany B/C sells pretty well, but the lounge joins in Albamy so that is a non factor on this run.


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## neroden (Nov 25, 2016)

The space was previously occupied by tables... which were vacant most of the time (LSL cafe car is really empty overnight and pretty empty during the day). So that's a net increase in seats sold, even if it's just two of you.


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## MikefromCrete (Nov 25, 2016)

One of the benefits of business class is having fewer people in a car. Consider that trip with only two people like a ride in a private car.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Nov 25, 2016)

I had the impression that the Business Class was merely a side-effect of having to get rid of the diner cars, and replaced with the Dinettes.... which just so happen to come with a small business class section. So why not offer those for sale....


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## jis (Nov 25, 2016)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> I had the impression that the Business Class was merely a side-effect of having to get rid of the diner cars, and replaced with the Dinettes.... which just so happen to come with a small business class section. So why not offer those for sale....


The Business Class has nothing to do with the Dinette. It is what used to be the full lounge car in the Boston section that has been replaced by a half lounge half BC. The Dinette is a substitute for the Dining Car in the New York section and will be replaced by a new Diner as soon as they become available.


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## Seaboard92 (Nov 25, 2016)

If one wanted to boost the business class service list under 48/49 and run it to New York. That way the intrastate New York passengers book it first. Where the sleepers fill up for NYP-BUF. Secondly I believe people look at 48/49 first compared to separately listed 448/449 for the ALB-CHI leg.


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## keelhauled (Nov 25, 2016)

Seaboard92 said:


> If one wanted to boost the business class service list under 48/49 and run it to New York. That way the intrastate New York passengers book it first. Where the sleepers fill up for NYP-BUF. Secondly I believe people look at 48/49 first compared to separately listed 448/449 for the ALB-CHI leg.


That leaves 448/449 without any food service though.


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## PVD (Nov 25, 2016)

The split lounge/BC was already in use on the Boston stub during the period of time that the Albany track work precluded joining the 2 sections.Displaced Boston sleeper passengers were supposed to be accommodated there. It was already there well before the Heritage Diner shortage caused the dinette swap. 5 + hrs from Boston 2:40 from NYP where would you put the lounge (given 1 car)?


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## west point (Nov 25, 2016)

Amtrak's reservation web site needs to list business class on the first display not hidden in the sleeper options. The present display is a route to failure. Would suggest that the first coach column lists BC Then it might sell out ?. A redesign needed.


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## PVD (Nov 25, 2016)

even if the first premium choice was b/c with clicks to move to sleeper choices it would be better than the way it is set up now


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## Palmetto (Nov 26, 2016)

Obviously, the technology exists to upsell to a higher level of service. The airlines do that quite readily. Amtrak hasn't found out that business strategy yet.


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## neroden (Nov 26, 2016)

The scheduling actually means it would make more sense to run the dining car to Boston and the lounge car to NY, especially since Amtrak isn't serving a dinner meal heading eastbound into NYC. But... no commissary facility or servicing for the dining car in Boston. So there we are.


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## Palmetto (Nov 26, 2016)

Where, then, do Acela Expresses leaving Boston get stocked? Inquiring minds want to know!


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## tommylicious (Nov 26, 2016)

How about serving real, cooked to order food?


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## Paull65 (Nov 26, 2016)

Thinking about taking LSL Business class from Springfield to Chicago. I have been on Cardinal Business class where it sounds like it is the same type of configuration. On the Cardinal, coach passengers are not allowed in the Business class car and there is no Amtrak employee serving food and beverages in that car. The beverage only service is self serve for the Business Class passengers. Is that the way that it is in the LSL or is the service in the middle of the car attended allowing coach passengers to come in and buy food and beverages and either take back to their seats or use the tables on one side of the Business Class car?


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## PerRock (Nov 26, 2016)

neroden said:


> But... no commissary facility or servicing for the dining car in Boston. So there we are.


Boston does has a commissary & basic car servicing facilities as it's the northern terminus for the NEC. Someone has to stock the cafe before it heads to ALB. This PDF shows all of Amtrak's commissary locations; it's PDF page 8, marked page 30 (this makes sense when you open the pdf...) https://goo.gl/vzXD70

As for repairs most everything that breaks near BOS gets sent elsewhere for repair. BOS can do some basic stuff to make the equipment road-worthy enough to get to a shop.

peter


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## Palmetto (Nov 27, 2016)

Thanks for that. I was quite surprised to read here that there was no commissary in Boston.


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## Eric S (Nov 27, 2016)

tommylicious said:


> How about serving real, cooked to order food?


Here ya go: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/45804-viewliner-ii-production-status-photos/


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## Montreal Ltd (Nov 28, 2016)

#20 I can answer. On the LSL the service experience is in the middle, with a long line of coach passengers waiting to buy beverages.


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## TylerP42 (Nov 28, 2016)

Buisness class has a separator curtain. The only people that walk through the Buisness class seats are crew and sleeping passengers.


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## A Voice (Nov 28, 2016)

TylerP42 said:


> The only people that walk through the Buisness class seats are crew and sleeping passengers.


You should wake them. Its not safe to be sleepwalking on a moving train.


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## TylerP42 (Nov 28, 2016)

Anywho, I will be reporting on how full/how well Business Class does in the coming months. Will be riding again in December.


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## Thirdrail7 (Nov 28, 2016)

It'll probably perform better when it is rerouted...or did that already happen? h34r: :hi:


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## BigRedEO (Nov 29, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > They probably need to move business class out of the column where the sleepers are listed so people will see it.
> ...


I had no clue until reading this thread. How long have they had a Business Class?


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## BigRedEO (Nov 29, 2016)

jis said:


> HP_Lovecraft said:
> 
> 
> > I had the impression that the Business Class was merely a side-effect of having to get rid of the diner cars, and replaced with the Dinettes.... which just so happen to come with a small business class section. So why not offer those for sale....
> ...


It's been two years since I've been on the LSL. Going from CLE to CHI January 14th. There's no longer a Dining Car? Only the Dinette? Does that mean no more being able to have the SCA bring breakfast to your bedroom?


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## jis (Nov 29, 2016)

BigRedEO said:


> It's been two years since I've been on the LSL. Going from CLE to CHI January 14th. There's no longer a Dining Car? Only the Dinette? Does that mean no more being able to have the SCA bring breakfast to your bedroom?


SCA will still be able to bring breakfast to your bedroom.


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## PVD (Nov 29, 2016)

I believe the B/C offering started when the Boston section started joining again at Albany rather than being a stub. The split car was being used as a refuge for Boston sleeper passengers who moved to the sleeper at Albany since it was originating in NY. Now it is being sold from Boston to Chicago. The dinette is supposed to be temporary, regular diner service should return when enough VL2 diners are available.


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## BigRedEO (Nov 30, 2016)

jis said:


> BigRedEO said:
> 
> 
> > It's been two years since I've been on the LSL. Going from CLE to CHI January 14th. There's no longer a Dining Car? Only the Dinette? Does that mean no more being able to have the SCA bring breakfast to your bedroom?
> ...


Thank you! Good to know!


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## neroden (Nov 30, 2016)

jis said:


> BigRedEO said:
> 
> 
> > It's been two years since I've been on the LSL. Going from CLE to CHI January 14th. There's no longer a Dining Car? Only the Dinette? Does that mean no more being able to have the SCA bring breakfast to your bedroom?
> ...


If there's any breakfast. They ran out of EGGS on the last trip I was on.

So don't rely on it.


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## jis (Nov 30, 2016)

That unfortunately is true on most Amtrak LD trains. You cannot rely on them not running out of things.


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## TylerP42 (Nov 30, 2016)

My favorite:

(To the table before you)

We have one of this left, a few of this, and a bunch of this.

What do you want?

(They pick the one you want, that there is only one left of)

Actually, when I couldn't eat wheat that happened to me. Person at my table got the last of the gluten free option, I tried to explain my situation but they wouldn't change their mind. I couldn't eat in the dining car for that meal. (Luckily the last meal)


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## PaulM (Dec 1, 2016)

jis said:


> That unfortunately is true on most Amtrak LD trains. You cannot rely on them not running out of things.


How about steak, fish, baked potato, pecan toffee desert, omelet, and grits? And to add insult to injury, we were not allowed to order the burger (per the cook, according to the waitress), even though the menu says it can be ordered for dinner. At least, a consultation with the LSA did get us the burgers.

This was on #4 departing LAX Sunday Nov 27. The LAX commissary must have been closed or on strike; and they were using up inventory from the arriving #3. About all they had left for dinner was turkey and chicken. After 4 days of turkey, I had had it with poultry.


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## neroden (Dec 2, 2016)

Does anyone have Wick Moorman's phone number, email, or postal mail address? Because the situation with the commissaries is getting ridiculous and really is the first thing he needs to address. Can't make money on food if you don't freaking STOCK it.


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## TylerP42 (Dec 2, 2016)

neroden said:


> Does anyone have Wick Moorman's phone number, email, or postal mail address? Because the situation with the commissaries is getting ridiculous and really is the first thing he needs to address. Can't make money on food if you don't freaking STOCK it.


Obviously we should just show up at his house.


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## jebr (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't think anyone wants an address to actually go to his house. We can just write a letter if the issue bothers us enough, and sometimes that's more effective than an email or phone call.


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## oregon pioneer (May 19, 2017)

So, it's been over six months since this thread was started. Has anyone take Business Class on the LSL recently? How crowded was it?I am thinking of booking this from BUF to BOS next January. It's an all-daytime portion, and the cost seems quite reasonable for the quality of the seating.

I've been in this type of car before, when I booked sleeper from BOS to CHI, and there was a stub train to ALB.


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## IndyLions (May 20, 2017)

I took it recently Buffalo - South Bend. It was a viable alternative to a sleeper when I couldn't get a roomette for a low enough price.

I had a whole row to myself and that was the norm. Honestly, if their web booking tool didn't absolutely hide the option from prospective customers they'd sell a lot more seats.


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