# Avelo Airlines Set To Takeoff



## TWA904 (Apr 18, 2021)

Destinations | Avelo (aveloair.com) Avelo Airlines has been approved to start flying. Several flights will start later this month from Burbank Airport to cities in the western U. S., with the rest of them beginning in May. Aircraft type is the B737 Next Generation aircraft.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 18, 2021)

TWA904 said:


> Destinations | Avelo (aveloair.com) Avelo Airlines has been approved to start flying. Several flights will start later this month from Burbank Airport to cities in the western U. S., with the rest of them beginning in May. Aircraft type is the B737 Next Generation aircraft.


Will they be a Low Fare/ Bare Bones Airline?


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## TWA904 (Apr 18, 2021)

Yes, you pay extra for everything. Checked Baggage, Carry-On Bag, Window Seat, Everything.


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## gswager (Apr 18, 2021)

Interesting!
Checked Baggage is $10.
Carry on Bag- priceless! ($35)

I've used Burbank airport few times. It's a small and charming airport. It is supposed to build a new terminal building replacing the old ones due to proximity to the runway. It'll be the same number of gates- 15.


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## Palmetto (Apr 19, 2021)

It'll be interesting to see how Burbank-Eugene does [being a former Eugenian, myself  ] And off topic, but Southwest is starting service to Eugene, also.


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## Exvalley (Apr 19, 2021)

gswager said:


> Interesting!
> Checked Baggage is $10.
> Carry on Bag- priceless! ($35)


If they are going to charge for bags, I think that this price discrepancy makes a lot of sense. No more dealing with gate checking because the overhead bins are full.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 19, 2021)

TWA904 said:


> Yes, you pay extra for everything. Checked Baggage, Carry-On Bag, Window Seat, Everything.


I've been waiting for an airline to finally try this model. All I see on my flights are hundreds of legroom-hating, middle-seat-loving, luggage-free passengers that are fed up with airlines failing to cater to their needs.


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## Exvalley (Apr 19, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've been waiting for an airline to finally try this model. All I see on my flights are hundreds of legroom-hating, middle-seat-loving, luggage-free passengers that are fed up with airlines failing to cater to their needs.


This may not be my preferred model, but I fail to see why choice is a bad thing. There are plenty of other carriers flying out of Burbank that don't charge a premium for window or aisle seats. Southwest won't even charge for a bag. And if Avelo charges for these things, but is still the same price as other airlines even with these fees, what's the harm? At least some people were able to get a cheaper flight if they felt it was worth sitting in the middle seat.

If there is a valid concern, it's the potential of "cost creep" because other airlines institute these fees but don't lower fares at the same time.


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## Exvalley (Apr 19, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've been waiting for an airline to finally try this model. All I see on my flights are hundreds of legroom-hating, middle-seat-loving, luggage-free passengers that are fed up with airlines failing to cater to their needs.



I just looked at a trip from Burbank to Grand Junction departing June 6th and returning on the 13th.

Avelo's base fare is $43.00, including taxes. With a checked bag and two standard aisle seats, the fare is $95 round trip.

The next cheapest fare is $279 on Delta.

And a trip from Burbank to Eugene on the same dates: Avelo with checked bags and an aisle seat with 34" seat pitch is $159 round trip. The next cheapest fare is $289 on Alaska. 

Seems like Avelo offers great value - at least in these examples.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 19, 2021)

TWA904 said:


> Yes, you pay extra for everything. Checked Baggage, Carry-On Bag, Window Seat, Everything.


Thanks! And As Ryan Air once suggested, Pay Toilets??( Greyhound had them in the Stations in the old days!)


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## flitcraft (Apr 19, 2021)

The problem is, service downgrades soon become the norm, once it is established that people will tolerate them. And, as economists often say, prices are slippery up, but sticky down.


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## Seaboard92 (Apr 19, 2021)

American is taking offense to the launch of the new airline on one of their routes. Instead of the motley crew of Regional jets on the route they've upgraded it to the mainline and dumped 1,500 new weekly seats on the route. American doesn't want to play ball with a new airline.


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## Cal (Apr 20, 2021)

If anyone watched DJ's Aviation on YouTube, he does many aviation updates that are quick and informational. He has a quick video about this, I just haven't watched it yet.


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## Exvalley (Apr 20, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> American is taking offense to the launch of the new airline on one of their routes. Instead of the motley crew of Regional jets on the route they've upgraded it to the mainline and dumped 1,500 new weekly seats on the route. American doesn't want to play ball with a new airline.


But has American matched Avelo's prices? 

As for regional jets, one of my favorite planes is the E175. I would match rather fly an E175 than a B737 or A321. I love the single seat in first class, and coach is roomy with no middle seat.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 20, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Seems like Avelo offers great value - at least in these examples.


At least for now. Once they knock off the competition, they'll be able to charge whatever they want.


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## PVD (Apr 20, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> But has American matched Avelo's prices?
> 
> As for regional jets, one of my favorite planes is the E175. I would match rather fly an E175 than a B737 or A321. I love the single seat in first class, and coach is roomy with no middle seat.


The E-jets (any of the sizes) don't have the claustrophobic feeling of either the CRJs or ERJs


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## Exvalley (Apr 20, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> At least for now. Once they knock off the competition, they'll be able to charge whatever they want.


Not really. They need to fill large planes between Burbank and places like Pasco, WA. There is only so much demand for these markets and second-tier airports. 

And the idea that they would "knock off" a legacy carrier is ambitious at best.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> This may not be my preferred model, but I fail to see why choice is a bad thing. There are plenty of other carriers flying out of Burbank that don't charge a premium for window or aisle seats. Southwest won't even charge for a bag.


It's interesting that you see no irony in holding up no-frills Southwest Airlines as some sort of full-service alternative.


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## Exvalley (Apr 20, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's interesting that you see no irony in holding up no-frills Southwest Airlines as some sort of full-service alternative.


All I said is that Southwest does not charge extra for window and/or aisle seats and that they don't charge for bags - all of which is true.

How you interpreted that as my saying that Southwest is a "full service airline" is completely lost on me.

Also, the "premium" that Avelo charges for an aisle or window seat is either $1 or $2, depending on the seat. I personally would not get too wound up about it, especially when the overall fare is $100 - $150 lower than the competition.

But the beauty of this - and my original point - is that if you don't like it you don't have to fly them. If you would rather pay $100 more and give up a non-stop flight because you object to the charge, that is your prerogative. Avelo is banking on the fact that most people will feel differently.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> All I said is that Southwest does not charge extra for window and/or aisle seats and that they don't charge for bags - all of which is true.


Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Southwest does not charge for set selection because they make no effort to ensure you will receive any particular seat? Why is this a compelling argument in your view?



Exvalley said:


> How you interpreted that as my saying that Southwest is a "full service airline" is completely lost on me.


I'm still lost on why you thought a random joke about airlines needed two rebuttals. Did it look like a riddle to you?


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## Exvalley (Apr 20, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I'm still lost on why you thought a random joke about airlines needed two rebuttals. Did it look like a riddle to you?


Because of your proclivity to be argumentative, it is hard to distinguish between when you are joking and using sarcasm to underscore a point. 

Regardless, this type of business model is interesting to discuss, even when you misattribute what I say about Southwest. Spirit, Frontier and Allegient all seem to make it work. Spirit's "big comfy seat" is usually a very good deal, so it's nice to see that consumers have choices.

On Avelo, I can get 34" seat pitch and a checked bag for a very attractive price. Hopefully they do well.


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## railiner (Apr 20, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Thanks! And As Ryan Air once suggested, Pay Toilets??( Greyhound had them in the Stations in the old days!)


In Greyhound's defense, I will say that they never had a pay toilet on board....only in the terminals, and then, they also had some 'free' toilets, which admittedly weren't as well maintained...


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 20, 2021)

railiner said:


> In Greyhound's defense, I will say that they never had a pay toilet on board....only in the terminals, and then, they also had some 'free' toilets, which admittedly weren't as well maintained...


We used to call it " The Greyhound Limbo!"


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## TWA904 (Apr 28, 2021)

Avelo Airlines started flying today. First flight was a 10:30am departure from Burbank to Santa Rosa, CA. About 70 passengers were onboard but how many were paying is not known.


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## B757Guy (Apr 29, 2021)

I wish them well!


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## tomfuller (Apr 29, 2021)

Avelo has exactly 3 737-800's (not Max8). They are flying to 11 western locations from Burbank. Mr. Levy was one of the co-founders of Allegiant Airlines. My wife has booked a round trip flight from Redmond OR to Burbank in June. Even with the extras she is paying less than a one way fare on Amtrak to Burbank on the Coast Starlight. If the rollout of Avelo goes well, they expect to buy 3 more 737's in the third quarter of this year. The seat pitch is 29 inches but will be tolerable for a flight of less than 3 hours.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 29, 2021)

TWA904 said:


> Avelo Airlines started flying today. First flight was a 10:30am departure from Burbank to Santa Rosa, CA. About 70 passengers were onboard but how many were paying is not known.


Pretty good crowd for Santa Rosa!( its a nice place to visit but you cant afford to live there! Lol)


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## trainman74 (Apr 29, 2021)

TWA904 said:


> Avelo Airlines started flying today. First flight was a 10:30am departure from Burbank to Santa Rosa, CA. About 70 passengers were onboard but how many were paying is not known.



I was eating at a restaurant in Lancaster (California) last week, and overheard people at a table near me talking about Avelo -- one of them said it would be less than $300 to take his family to Bozeman, Montana, even paying extra for checked bags and seat assignments.

(I was seated outdoors, and I'm fully vaccinated anyway.)


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## Exvalley (Apr 29, 2021)

trainman74 said:


> (I was seated outdoors, and I'm fully vaccinated anyway.)


No need for this type of disclaimer!


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 29, 2021)

First look inside and where to sit on Avelo’s Boeing 737-800 - The Points Guy


With 189 seats and 29 inches of pitch, Avelo's Boeing 737s are outfitted in one of the tightest configurations in the industry.




thepointsguy.com






> Avelo’s 737-800 has 189 coach seats spread across 32 rows. Most seats have a measly 29 inches of pitch, making it a tight squeeze for just about any adult. For context, the same plane flying for Southwest is outfitted in an all-coach configuration with 175 seats. [...] They’re both tight and poorly padded.


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## jiml (Apr 29, 2021)

tomfuller said:


> The seat pitch is 29 inches but will be tolerable for a flight of less than 3 hours.


Maybe if you're under 5' 8" and the seat in front of you doesn't recline.


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## Bob Dylan (Apr 30, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> First look inside and where to sit on Avelo’s Boeing 737-800 - The Points Guy
> 
> 
> With 189 seats and 29 inches of pitch, Avelo's Boeing 737s are outfitted in one of the tightest configurations in the industry.
> ...


"..Head em up, move em out Rawhide!.."


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## railiner (Apr 30, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> "..Head em up, move em out Rawhide!.."


What? Are you insinuating these are "cattle-cars"?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 30, 2021)

Cal said:


> If anyone watched DJ's Aviation on YouTube, he does many aviation updates that are quick and informational. He has a quick video about this, I just haven't watched it yet.


I enjoyed his topics but the scripting, inflection, and pacing were quite distracting. It sounded like he was reading microprint through a magnifying glass. Hopefully it will get better in the future.



tomfuller said:


> The seat pitch is 29 inches but will be tolerable for a flight of less than 3 hours.


That depends on how tall you are and even if you decide it's okay for an hour or two what will you do when there's an extended delay? I've had two hour flights become six hour ordeals because of factors beyond my control.



jiml said:


> Maybe if you're under 5' 8" and the seat in front of you doesn't recline.


Many airlines with pitch in the 20's lock the seat mechanisms to prevent passenger movement. I wonder how rows with such pitch can pass supposedly stringent evacuation certifications but I guess the FAA doesn't see it as a problem.


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## MARC Rider (Apr 30, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I enjoyed his topics but the scripting, inflection, and pacing were quite distracting. It sounded like he was reading microprint through a magnifying glass. Hopefully it will get better in the future.
> 
> 
> That depends on how tall you are and even if you decide it's okay for an hour or two what will you do when there's an extended delay? I've had two hour flights become six hour ordeals because of factors beyond my control.
> ...


Just because the FAA doesn't see it as a problem doesn't mean that it's not a problem.


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## PVD (Apr 30, 2021)

It passed as 189 in single class - nothing new...that's what it was always certified at. Sadly, their are many airlines that have 29" pitch seating, even a few 28. Also, not all Boeing, plenty of different Airbus models included. I don't plan on sitting in any of those. And in many cases, airlines have installed thinner seats, they aren't too comfortable even with enough legroom. Sometimes they have a bunch of "skinny rows" so they can have some more generous rows at an up charge, but keep the total count close.


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## TWA904 (May 6, 2021)

Avelo Airlines announced today they will begin operations from New Haven-Tweed Airport in the fall. Routes were not announced. However, they do plan to base about 100 staff at Tweed, including pilots, flight attendants, customer service personal staff and technicians. Tweed is about 55 miles from New York City.


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## Palmetto (May 7, 2021)

I wonder how much Tweed will siphon off passengers who would ordinarily use Bradley? I think their strategy should be: fly non-stop to wherever American does not--namely, PHL. DCA, MDW come to mind. It seems that American is the only game in town now, with flights only to PHL.


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