# Airlines crack down on 'mileage runs'



## CHamilton (Sep 25, 2014)

Airlines crack down on ‘mileage runs’



> Some travelers take very long flights on low-priced tickets to earn frequent-flier miles and elite status.


Uh, oh. Hope Amtrak doesn't get the same idea.


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## rrdude (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, Amtrak already has, if you will, copied it to an extent, or they have copied Amtrak, by tying the points or miles issued, to how much you spend.


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## Ryan (Sep 25, 2014)

The 4 segments a day rule, as well.


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## jis (Sep 25, 2014)

And unlike Delta Amtrak does not allow you to roll over elite qualifying points not used in the elite status achieved that year, over to the next year to apply to achieve elite status.

Yeah, Amtrak has always been money based except for the sub $50 segments, and the special Acela 500/750 to compete with airlines on those segments. OTOH, Airlines have always been miles and segments based for achieving elite status, and yet they have the 500 minimum EQM per segment, and will continue to have it. United is still going to keep the BIS miles based Million Miler thing as well as getting premier status based on miles with fare class based EQM bonuses and of course base amount of money spent for each status level.

Frankly Amtrak should tighten up on the minimum 100 points thing if it starts costing too much. I doubt that it does at present so let it be.

As for earning points I am actually thrilled with the new scheme announced by United. Here is why.

Today as a Premier Platinum on a $5500 RT discounted (P Class) BF ticket to India I earn 28,500 miles and change.

In the new scheme as a Platinum I will earn at least 5000 * 9 = 45,000 points plus some yet to be specified fare class bonus, and 4 to 6 segments depending on routing. Assuming about 500 dollars worth of taxes and fees.

Today on a 250 RT Coach flight from MCO to EWR I earn about 1900 miles and 2 segments.

In the new scheme I will earn some 1900 points and 2 segments.

I did an equivalent computation for my entire set of flights this year and I do come out way ahead in the new scheme. I was shocked and surprised. Downside if any, is relatively minor, if you do a lot of long range traveling given the fares these days.

Oddly enough, if you meet the spend threshold, you can still make your favorite Elite status purely on segments.

Of course if you spend a lot of time hunting down low fares to rack up miles then you are screwed royally, which is the point of the article.


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## xyzzy (Sep 25, 2014)

For many of us, the objective of frequent flyer programs ceased to be free tickets long ago. Most road warriors have more miles than we can possibly use on tickets, unless we choose an award for transatlantic or transpacific F (on the decreasing number of routes where F is even available). Real road warriors -- the ones that airlines want the most -- seldom check their mileage balances. Besides, on the rare chance I get to take a vacation, my first impulse is to stay away from yet another aluminum tube.

Loyalty programs are about status now. I wouldn't care if I could never again cash in miles for tickets on American -- but if you put my Executive Platinum status in jeopardy or the perks that come with it, that's serious business.


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## jis (Sep 25, 2014)

Exactly, and that is one thing that is affected the least in all this shuffle.

I basically use my miles for upgrades only these days and I still have more left than I can shake a stick at. And as I said this way I will have them coming in even faster than before. Sigh....


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 25, 2014)

You can share with me Jis. What with my grand kids on the other side of the country.


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## jis (Sep 25, 2014)

Nah, I like my guaranteed upgrades. There will just be more of those 

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum


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## Anderson (Sep 26, 2014)

Honestly, the "runs" in Amtrak have been slowly vanishing. Most of them are really short hops (NPN-RVR, for example) or Thruway-related quirks (NFK-RVR-NPN-NFK), and in a lot of places inflation is slowly eroding these away. The same applies to the Acela 500/750 run: 5-6 years back, that was a pretty good deal WAS-NYP, as tickets could end up under $140. Now, not so much as ticket prices have skyrocketed (to the point that AGR actually had to tweak the reward rules, since on more than a few trains, 500 points WAS-NYP had gone from being a bonus to being a penalty).

There will still be some quirky runs and exploits in the Amtrak system for quite a while...but in Amtrak's case, with a few exceptions the problem is "solving itself". For what it's worth, given that AGR has always sort-of been aimed at the NEC super-commuter crowd a mileage-based system _really_ never made sense. Had it been aimed at the LD trains, that would have been another story (since as far as I can tell, RASM has always been _far_ higher in the NEC).

Of course, to turn around...the fact that frequent flyer programs were more or less initiated back when fares hadn't migrated too far from pre-deregulation levels (I think the first ones in the US might have even beaten the cessation of price regulation out the door, while British Airways' programme was initiated well before the company was made private), and thus fares and distances probably had a closer relationship at the time. This was also still the case on A-Day; I don't know how long it continued to be the case thereafter.

In Amtrak's case, by the time AGR was founded you basically had two-and-a-half "systems": The NEC, with higher fares; the LD system, with lower fares; and the half-system of a bunch of state trains with fares in line with or lower than the LD system. Had most airline frequent-flyer systems been founded in the late 90s, they probably would have looked about the same; as they were founded _much_ earlier, the first followed a different mold which made sense in the context of the early 1980s while those that came later ended up following the path of the existing once since "those worked".


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## xyzzy (Sep 26, 2014)

In the early-mid 1980s when FF programs became widespread. the average load factor on domestic airlines was much lower than it is now. Partly that reflected the use of 250-350 seat aircraft on domestic routes; partly the price elasticity of demand, given high ticket prices in constant dollars before Southwest transformed the market and before yield management in near real-time became the norm; partly that if a passenger was willing to make a connection somewhere, there were umpteen airlines to choose from. The airlines had lots of inventory spoilage back then. Not so much now.


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## jis (Sep 26, 2014)

If one is after lifetime status, under many of the new hybrid schemes it is still worth doing mileage based points runs.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 26, 2014)

jis said:


> Today as a Premier Platinum on a $5500 RT discounted (P Class) BF ticket to India I earn 28,500 miles and change.


That $5,000 ticket would easily pay for an entire trip to Asia or Europe for me. Not to mention that spending $5,000 across 2-3 new credit cards could easily net 100,000 points or more in an incubator currency that is far more flexible. Status does have it's benefits for those who are forced to fly regularly, but many of those same perks can now be purchased outright regardless of your actual carrier.


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## jis (Sep 26, 2014)

True. I was just restricting my comparison to before and after in the same airline program, since that was the focus of the article.


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 27, 2014)

God for the price of a BF RT to London I could get an inside cabin on the QM2. I'd rather do that.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2014)

Green Maned Lion said:


> God for the price of a BF RT to London I could get an inside cabin on the QM2. I'd rather do that.


Better run to Cunard's website...they are offering crossings as low as $599. plus taxes pp based on double occupancy....


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh, outside cabin. Cooliepops.


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## Ryan (Sep 28, 2014)

That's tempting.

Although I think I'd be bored on a crossing without having work the whole time. Maybe they'll let me drive for a few hours.


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## railiner (Sep 28, 2014)

RyanS said:


> That's tempting.
> 
> Although I think I'd be bored on a crossing without having work the whole time. Maybe they'll let me drive for a few hours.


I don't know about 'driving'.....but I think they'd let you 'swab the decks'.....


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## Green Maned Lion (Sep 28, 2014)

I've never been bored on a cruise. Irritated by too many tourists, yes, bored, no.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 28, 2014)

railiner said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > God for the price of a BF RT to London I could get an inside cabin on the QM2. I'd rather do that.
> ...


Where are you seeing those prices?


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## OlympianHiawatha (Sep 28, 2014)

RyanS said:


> That's tempting.
> 
> Although I think I'd be bored on a crossing without having work the whole time. Maybe they'll let me drive for a few hours.


If I had to travel on a Liner, I'd want to spend my time behind the scenes in the Engine Room, on the Bridge and wherever else all the good stuff takes place. Better yet I'd book passage on a Container Ship, which many Lines allow you to do.


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## railiner (Sep 29, 2014)

Devil's Advocate said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Green Maned Lion said:
> ...


I got an email from the Cunard World Club....sorry I didn't notice that it is for World Club (past passenger) member's.....

you can call them and see if you can get that rate, anyway.....it's in effect until 10 October for the winter crossing's, and good for best available cabin, inside, outside, or up to a standart balcony.....


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## railiner (Sep 29, 2014)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> RyanS said:
> 
> 
> > That's tempting.
> ...


Many cruiseline's now offer a "behind the scene's tour", for a fee, that will include the bridge, the engine control room (not the actual engine room), the backstage of the theater, the galley, crew bar and cafeteria, laundry, store rooms, environmental area, etc. varies by line and by ship. Some waive the fee if you are a top level repeat passenger or are booked in a suite category.....


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## PRR 60 (Sep 29, 2014)

I fully expect American to join the dollar-based miles party once AAdvantage is merged with US Airways Dividend Miles. Since that will not occur until sometime in 2015, the mileage run is still alive (if not well) at both AA and US.

The brass ring for frequent fliers is, of course, status. If you fly more than a couple of times a year, status is everything. Using some shortcuts and some mileage runs, it has not been hard or particularly expensive to get mid-level status at US. That got you lots of goodies (free bags, early boarding, even automatic upgrades). Even before the program merge, they are now tightening the screws on us pseudo-frequent fliers by taking away things like 10K EQM for 23K spend on the affinity card, and a way to buy-up to the next level at a reasonable cost. It just makes it more of a challenge.

Fall is here, and fall is mileage run season. It's time to assess where I am, where I will land absent intervention, and plan accordingly. The fact is that, like Amtrak joy rides, mileage runs are fun. There is nothing like having breakfast in New Jersey, lunch in Phoenix, and head out for dinner later that day back in New Jersey.


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## jis (Sep 29, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> Fall is here, and fall is mileage run season. It's time to assess where I am, where I will land absent intervention, and plan accordingly. The fact is that, like Amtrak joy rides, mileage runs are fun. There is nothing like having breakfast in New Jersey, lunch in Phoenix, and head out for dinner later that day back in New Jersey.


I agree. Mileage runs are fun, and they will continue to be useful for getting status, since at least in United's incarnation status is still achieved in terms of miles modulated by minimum spend. You cannot get status by merely spending an enormous amount of money without getting adequate miles or segments, and you cannot get lifetime status without getting actual BIS miles on United Iron (or Aluminum or Carbon Fiber as the case may be). Although it is also true that it is very hard to spend enormous amounts of money without incidentally getting adequate EQMs. The only ones in real land of hurt are the ones that used very low cost tickets to get enormous number of miles.
I think I am good for Platinum this year on United and that is all I want.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 29, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> I fully expect American to join the dollar-based miles party once AAdvantage is merged with US Airways Dividend Miles. Since that will not occur until sometime in 2015, the mileage run is still alive (if not well) at both AA and US. The brass ring for frequent fliers is, of course, status. If you fly more than a couple of times a year, status is everything.


Everyone has their own perspective but for me chasing status is a distant second to choosing the best possible flight. More often than not I'll choose the airline with the easier schedule or the more efficient routing or the fair weather connection. No amount of domestic upgrades is going to make an oh-dark-thirty departure or a distant diversionary routing or a deep freeze connection seem worth the trouble to me and international upgrades generally require top tier status to be practical.



PRR 60 said:


> Using some shortcuts and some mileage runs, it has not been hard or particularly expensive to get mid-level status at US. That got you lots of goodies (free bags, early boarding, even automatic upgrades).


Free bags and early boarding are also part of most airline credit cards at this point. I can live without upgrades on a domestic flight (from the central zone virtually every domestic flight is 4 hours or less). I'll admit that automatic upgrades on a TATL or TPAC trip would be great but would still not be worth the cost and effort of reaching top tier status in my view.



PRR 60 said:


> The fact is that, like Amtrak joy rides, mileage runs are fun. There is nothing like having breakfast in New Jersey, lunch in Phoenix, and head out for dinner later that day back in New Jersey.


Phoenix has some excellent food but it's far enough away from the airport to make it a pain to combine with a daytrip mileage run. I guess I must have done a little too much flying or visited a few too many airports or grown a bit too old to see the appeal of flying for the sake of status at this point. I get a lot more enjoyment out of visiting four and five star hotels than I ever did from flying with one and two star airlines. Interesting discussion though.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 29, 2014)

I used to be among the crowd y'all are in with so understand the business and frequent flyers status/awards programs but now I concentrate on AGR points since I don't have to be anywhere any certain time!

On the rare occasions I have to fly I choose the cheapest flight I can, ( usually all things considered its Southwest, Jet Blue or Alaska out of Austin) since as Chris said the Central Time Zone doesn't have long flites!

Crossing the ponds ( been there, done that!)is out of my league financially so not a consideration!

I just hope Amtrak and AGR don't copy the Airlines tightening up of loyaltity programs!


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## jis (Sep 29, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> I just hope Amtrak and AGR don't copy the Airlines tightening up of *loyaltity* programs!


What's loayaltity Jim? A Freudian slip?


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 29, 2014)

jis said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > I just hope Amtrak and AGR don't copy the Airlines tightening up of *loyaltity* programs!
> ...


A slip of the old arthritic fingers that spell check on my phone missed!

Damn Army! LOL


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## Anderson (Oct 2, 2014)

jis said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > I just hope Amtrak and AGR don't copy the Airlines tightening up of *loyaltity* programs!
> ...


I'm thinking it's what PanAm did back in the day...


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## xyzzy (Oct 2, 2014)

For those of us who fly on business frequently -- I'm in the middle of a seven-segment trip including two transatlantic -- status is mainly about F upgrades or, if we can't get into F, getting an exit row aisle or whatever seat one prefers without having to pay extra for it. Most corporations won't reimburse seat selection fees, so it's nice not to have to pay them out-of-pocket. In general the top-tier frequent flyer can beat out the occasional flyer who has an airline affinity credit card for the very best seats in Y. (The airlines aren't stupid.) Some other perks of top-tier like reduced fees to join the lounge and jumping the queues at check-in or when dialing 800 are also useful. Checked baggage without a fee is not so important because the most frequent flyers find ways never to check bags to begin with.


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