# Desert Wind



## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

Many years ago, my Mom took Amtrak from San Bernardino, Ca (SNB) to Salt Lake City, Ut (SLC). She said she thought it went through Las Vegas. Would that have been the 'Desert Wind'? I know the route is gone, anybody know why or if Amtrak will ever bring it back?


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## MrFSS (Mar 20, 2009)




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## dart330 (Mar 20, 2009)

If they do restore service, I really hope they run twice daily, they need a train leaving between 4 - 6 PM from Vegas into LA so people can leave after work.

I work across the tracks from the old Las Vegas train station. It is just used as a break room by the casino employees now.

Looks like it would need a lot of work to get it back in shape on the inside.


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2009)

Nice pics! Thanks for sharing.

Is that a maglev train painted on the lower right of that picture?


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## dart330 (Mar 20, 2009)

Looking at that schedule, I am surprised they offered checked baggage in Vegas. But I guess it makes sense with people coming here from all over the country.

The mural is in a narrow hallway leading from the front desk to the old train station which is for employees only (haven't been able to get any inside pictures yet). The other train on the right is supposed to be the Las Vegas monorail I think.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

MrFSS said:


>


Thanks! that's the one! She rode coach, said it was ok, but noisy. She didn't get a sleeper, but she said they were available. She didn't want to pay extra, because she had already retired and thought it was too much to spend.

I for one would like to see this one come back. Those are great pics of the waiting room! Love the monorail! Reminds me of the on at Dizzyland!!!! I know I'm going to have to fly there in the near future (hopefully not before our train trip) to say good bye for the last time to my brother.


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2009)

While bringing back this train would be great, I think I would prefer having some new routes first. Lets face it, a lot of that route is already covered by other trains. If Las Vegas is important, they should create an LA-LV train.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> While bringing back this train would be great, I think I would prefer having some new routes first. Lets face it, a lot of that route is already covered by other trains. If Las Vegas is important, they should create an LA-LV train.



For me, the part of the run that would be important would be SLC to SNB. My choices right now are:

1. Fly

2. Drive

3. Train- SLC-SAC SAC-LAX- then fly (?) to SNB

4. Fly to ALB or Flagstaff or Tuscon-to SNB.

If & when they do the Mag-Lev from Vegas to Anaheim (playground to playground), I would still need to fly to Vegas, then train to Dizzyland, then fly or take train to SNB.

At this point, other than spending large sums on #3, or less on #4, I'm going to be stuck flying.


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## Rumpled (Mar 20, 2009)

I took that once in about '89 or '90. For what we did it worked out great. I thought we got on in Santa Ana, but maybe it was Fullerton.

We took it to Salt Lake for a skiing weekend. Amtrak was trying to take our business from Greyhound and gave 20 or so of us a free FAM trip to check it out.

We used to run ~1500 college students to Colorado every Xmas break for a week of skiing. Amtrak wanted some of that business, but it wouldn't have been feasible. They couldn't or wouldn't take us all at once; and taking 200 or so a day just wouldn't work.

We did use it once more for a small trip to Salt Lake.

We also considered the CS to Whistler, but again it didn't pan out.

IMHO this route is not a duplication of existing service. As of now; there is no LAX to Vegas, Salt Lake or Denver service.


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2009)

Rumpled said:


> IMHO this route is not a duplication of existing service. As of now; there is no LAX to Vegas, Salt Lake or Denver service.


Well, not one train service, but you can certainly get there from LAX.

It would just seem a waste to me to duplicate practically a whole route just to add LAX-SLC. Lets get service to other areas first.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 20, 2009)

amtrak could add a split. add some cars to X train then those cars get taken off at X station and go to Vegas.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

printman2000 said:


> Rumpled said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO this route is not a duplication of existing service. As of now; there is no LAX to Vegas, Salt Lake or Denver service.
> ...


I realize that it would not be a priority at this point-but it would increase ridership.

I know, it's just the SLC leg I'd be interested in. But I guess there used to be a 'pioneer' run that went from Ogden (north of SLC) to Seattle. Maybe if they combined that one with the SLC-SNB and made a new one at some point. Call it Pioneer Desert Wind! I think that could rake in some cash. If they did that, I would take it to Seattle, or south sw to SNB. That would be fun!!!

I know there is alot of people in SLC who like to gamble & make regular trips to do just that.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> amtrak could add a split. add some cars to X train then those cars get taken off at X station and go to Vegas.


Maybe a split from the Zephyr in SLC! That would work!


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## dart330 (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't think it is necessary to restore the Desert Wind go all the way to Chicago right now.

They just need some type of service, even if it is just coach and a cafe car going from SLC - LVS - LAX.

Have Vegas be the split for the trains, only run from SLC - LVS and LVS - LAX. Two trains each way on each leg daily.

This would be similar to the trains going from KCY to CHI through STL.

Anything beats driving that I-15 !!!


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## RailFanLNK (Mar 20, 2009)

I and some others would love to see this route brought back. Currently, Brenda's son is stationed in Las Vegas and will be deploying to the Middle East soon. Yes we can fly, but to get from LNK to Vegas we have to drive to KCY and then have a 3 hour van ride in the middle of the night to Vegas. I would love to hop on here in LNK and get to Vegas or LA.

Al


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2009)

RailFanLNK said:


> I and some others would love to see this route brought back. Currently, Brenda's son is stationed in Las Vegas and will be deploying to the Middle East soon. Yes we can fly, but to get from LNK to Vegas we have to drive to KCY and then have a 3 hour van ride in the middle of the night to Vegas. I would love to hop on here in LNK and get to Vegas or LA.
> Al


I would love to hop on a train here in Amarillo and go ANYWHERE!!! :lol: Be thankful you have something.

Still hoping for a SWC reroute.


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## Shawn (Mar 20, 2009)

I would LOVE to see them do a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind...

SEA --> PDX --> SLC --> Vegas --> LAX

MAYBE, have a thru coach and sleeper to Denver or beyond...

More of a "comma" route


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## Shawn (Mar 20, 2009)

So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name...

Western Continental

Amtrak Train #25

Southbound

Dep Seattle 745AM

Arv Portland 1145AM

Dep Portland 12PM

Arv Boise 11PM

Dep Boise 1130PM

Arv Salt Lake City 7AM

Dep Salt Lake City 730AM

Arv Las Vegas 230PM

Dep Las Vegas 300PM

Arv LAX 10PM

Amtrak Train #26

Northbound

Dep LAX 8AM

Arv Las Vegas 3PM

Dep Las Vegas 330PM

Arv Salt Lake City 1030PM

Dep Salt Lake City 11PM

Arv Boise 630AM

Dep Boise 7AM

Arv Portland 6PM

Dep Portland 630PM

Arv Seattle 1030PM


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## Everydaymatters (Mar 20, 2009)

Hi Sunchaser. Looks like we have the same avatar. Wonder how that happened???

I rode the Desert Wind from Chicago to LasVegas and wish they'd bring it back. Visiting my niece now involves taking a shuttle from Kingman, AZ to the airport in LasVegas.

The depot was the back door of the Union Plaza Hotel. Maybe they discontinued a route because they had to leave too many passengers behind. Once they got involved in the slots, they never saw them again. :angry:


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## Rafi (Mar 20, 2009)

If the DW did ever come back, and the Pioneer was also back in place taking the UP overland route west of Denver to Portland, I'd like to see the DW extend up Ogden to at least provide a connection for Pioneer folks to/from Salt Lake City and other points like Provo, Helper, Green River, etc. Not sure if the timetables would support such a connection, but it'd be nice!

Rafi

EDIT: Whoops--as I was typing that, it sounds like some other folks would rather it just combine with the Pioneer! Not a bad idea.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

Everydaymatters said:


> Hi Sunchaser. Looks like we have the same avatar. Wonder how that happened???
> I rode the Desert Wind from Chicago to LasVegas and wish they'd bring it back. Visiting my niece now involves taking a shuttle from Kingman, AZ to the airport in LasVegas.
> 
> The depot was the back door of the Union Plaza Hotel. Maybe they discontinued a route because they had to leave too many passengers behind. Once they got involved in the slots, they never saw them again. :angry:


Hi back! Used a stock avatar- no macaw pictures to choose from, so I chose water instead. Not talented enough to find a Blue & Gold Macaw pic.

Gave me a giggle about losing passengers- I'm sure that happens alot!!!Probably happen alot with the mag-lev.


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## p&sr (Mar 20, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> 3. Train- SLC-SAC SAC-LAX- then fly (?) to SNB


From (either) LAX to SNB, you can go by Train.

If LAX is Union Station, just take the MetroLink Train.

If LAX is the Airport, then get to Union Station by the Flyaway Bus, or by MetroRail... Green Line to Blue Line to Red Line to the other LAX.


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## p&sr (Mar 20, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Not talented enough to find a Blue & Gold Macaw pic.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Train- SLC-SAC SAC-LAX- then fly (?) to SNB
> ...


Yeah, but the route SLC->SAC, SAC->LAX ->SNB is out of my price range currently. If I go alone, I would at least want a roomette for each train. If it is hubby & me, definitely bedrooms. That's also a long trip. We are taking a longer trip in June, our first one, but if I have to go soon, I'd prefer a straighter shot. My big brother has pancreatic cancer, & I'm hoping he will still be around in July, but if he continues to get worse, I'll be flying out to see him before June.


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## sunchaser (Mar 20, 2009)

Shawn said:


> So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name...
> Western Continental
> 
> Amtrak Train #25
> ...


LOVE IT!!! I would like a slice of that pie!!!! We could visit hubby's relatives up north, mine down south!!!!Or maybe include the Coast Starlight & make a big loop!


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## jmbgeg (Mar 20, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Shawn said:
> 
> 
> > So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name...
> ...


This route would be a great way to stimulate the Las Vegas economy. 

I currently travel PDX/SAC/Bakersfield/then Amtrak bus to Las Vegas. I would much rather go PDX to las Vegas on one train in a sleeper instead of the coach ride on the San Joaquins and Amtrak thruway bus to Vegas.


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## JAChooChoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Shawn said:


> _So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name..._Western Continental
> 
> Amtrak Train #25
> 
> ...


*However, it has no connections to/from Denver and east*


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## jphjaxfl (Mar 21, 2009)

Of course you would need to get Union Pacific to agree to allow a train on its rails at those times or an additional track could be added to the routes at Amtrak's expense. Union Pacific has been trying to keep passenger trains off its lines since Amtrak Day 1. The original Amtrak only operated on UP lines lines between Denver and Ogden and that was because Rio Grande didn't join Amtrak. As UP absorbed other railroads such as Espee, MoPac, Rio Grande, they picked up more passenger lines. It should be noted that no Amtrak passenger train has ever been scheduled to operate on UP's original main from Omaha to Cheyenne which is an excellent rail line. Also part of the line into Boise, ID has been abandoned since the Pioneer was discontinued so they would need to be restored if the new Pioneer went through Boise which would be an important stop. If you could get UP to be more passenger train friendly, restoration of service might happen. Good Luck with that!


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## Shawn (Mar 21, 2009)

Unfortunately, you can't provide connections everywhere. Hence, the CS doesn't provide any connections east from LAX, or from SEA to the east with the EB. If you want to go east, you will just have to stay in Salt Lake City for night. The schedule was made to provide to go from Seattle to LAX via Vegas, with "OK" times for its route. As for whether or not it will happen...probably won't, but it would be a great route and would get alot of people if it ever did exist. Yes, we ALL know what the issues are, etc.


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## sunchaser (Mar 23, 2009)

p&sr said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Not talented enough to find a Blue & Gold Macaw pic.


Thanks for the pic!!!! I am not real good at matching sizes (pixels and such). It's perfect. Good render of my bird.

I know this is off subject, but somewhere someone was discussing double-quoting (including more than one quote in a post). How do you do that? Thanks again!!!


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## AlanB (Mar 23, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> I know this is off subject, but somewhere someone was discussing double-quoting (including more than one quote in a post). How do you do that? Thanks again!!!


Instead of clicking the reply button, you click the Quote button with the plus sign. That button will turn red and show a minus sign when clicked. Click as many Quote buttons as you want, up to 10, and then click the Add reply button to work with the quotes and your reply. The Fast Reply button doesn't work with this feature.


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## sunchaser (Mar 23, 2009)

AlanB said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > I know this is off subject, but somewhere someone was discussing double-quoting (including more than one quote in a post). How do you do that? Thanks again!!!
> ...


Ah, thats how it works! I tried it before. but I think I canceled it by hitting the quote several times and then reply....I thought thats how it would work. Thanks for the info!!!!!


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## creddick (Mar 23, 2009)

My wife and I would LOVE to see service restored to Vegas. We do not fly for many reasons the chief one being we hate it so much. Trains are just so comfortable too. We would love to go back to Las Vegas but it is a long drive from Michigan. I will not fly. I know there are lots of others like us out there. Bring it back!


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## Chris J. (Mar 27, 2009)

creddick said:


> My wife and I would LOVE to see service restored to Vegas. We do not fly for many reasons the chief one being we hate it so much. Trains are just so comfortable too. We would love to go back to Las Vegas but it is a long drive from Michigan. I will not fly. I know there are lots of others like us out there. Bring it back!


Given that Vegas is one of the more obvious 'gaps' in the Amtrak network, bringing service back in some form would be a good start. I guess LA to Vegas would be where to start, then extend that to Salt Lake City.


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## dart330 (Mar 27, 2009)

Chris J. said:


> Given that Vegas is one of the more obvious 'gaps' in the Amtrak network, bringing service back in some form would be a good start. I guess LA to Vegas would be where to start, then extend that to Salt Lake City.


I agree, just start with the cheapest service available. Coach and a cafe car from LVS to LAX. If business does well (which it would), extend to SLC. I would think the huge mormon population in vegas would be enough to support that segment.

Once the route is established, maybe add some sleepers on a through train for LAX to SLC since its a 14 hour trip and you are good to go. Catch the CZ in SLC the next day if you want to go to Chicago.

I think the most important thing is getting any kind of train service to Vegas, but I would rather have coach service 2 or 3 times daily instead of a once daily Desert Wind. Too bad the state will always be too broke to provide funding.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 27, 2009)

I am sorry... but the Desert Wind always sounded like a crappy train name to me-- makes me think of... well, wind in the desert. Dry, hot, sandy... not exactly relaxing.


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## wayman (Mar 27, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I am sorry... but the Desert Wind always sounded like a crappy train name to me-- makes me think of... well, wind in the desert. Dry, hot, sandy... not exactly relaxing.


If we're looking at it as merely "the train to Vegas" (whichever direction you might be coming from) rather than "the train from Salt Lake City to Los Angeles", then I suppose we could consider names like Caesar's Chariot, Flamingo Flyer, Venetian Express, or of course, the Desert _Wynn_... in other words, sell the naming rights to the highest Vegas casino bidder. Not a direction I _want_ to see Amtrak go in, but if it makes the difference between having the money to run the train and not... I'll take it.

But if you're naming the train for the route it takes ... well, "dry, hot, sandy... not exactly relaxing" is exactly what you'll see out the window the entire way between SLC and LAX.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 27, 2009)

wayman said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry... but the Desert Wind always sounded like a crappy train name to me-- makes me think of... well, wind in the desert. Dry, hot, sandy... not exactly relaxing.
> ...


The Cactus Corridor!

Then I get to think of prickly seats!


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## WaTrainFan (Mar 28, 2009)

Shawn said:


> So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name...
> Western Continental
> 
> Amtrak Train #25
> ...



BNSF re-opened Stampede pass in 1999 or so, so there is a direct route from Seattle to Pasco WA, so it isn't necessary to go through Portland, which would save some time. The train would then have to change from BNSF to UP just east of Pasco, then go down through Hermiston OR and rejoin the old route of the Pioneer just South of Hermiston.


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## jmbgeg (Apr 4, 2009)

The westbound route to Vegas with shuttle connection is not as cumbersome as the eastbound. The Southwest Chief from Chicago stops in Flagstaff with a relatively quick shuttle over the Hoover dam to Vegas. The eastbound route that I usually take involves the Coast Starlight southbound from Portland, detraining in Sacramento or Martinez to catch the San Joaquins until it terminates in Bakersfield then a long Thruway bus to Vegas. If they ran a commuter train like the San Joaquins east and west from LA or Bakersfield to Vegas they could probably generate a fairly heavy passenger load both directions with the ride a lot better than a Thruway bus without the cost of a long distance cross-country train. This route would pull from LA, central California, the Bay area and Northwest. Logical or ill-advised?


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## Joel N. Weber II (Apr 4, 2009)

WaTrainFan said:


> BNSF re-opened Stampede pass in 1999 or so, so there is a direct route from Seattle to Pasco WA, so it isn't necessary to go through Portland, which would save some time.


Doesn't that also have the drawback of making the train much less appealing to all those Portland passengers?


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## Joel N. Weber II (Apr 4, 2009)

Shawn said:


> Unfortunately, you can't provide connections everywhere.


Given reasonable funding of Amtrak (like, probably 100 times what Amtrak gets now), why not?


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## henryj (Apr 4, 2009)

Shawn said:


> So, here's a very ROUGH draft schedule for a train like that...with a made up name...
> Western Continental
> 
> Amtrak Train #25
> ...



Since this is all hypothetical, why not throw out all the 'rules' and do something like this. Overnight between LA and Las Vegas. This serves Cedar City(Milford) the gateway to Zion and other parks during afternoon hours. It also gets into Pocatello and Shoshone during morning or evening hours to connect with Yellowstone and Sun Valley. And.........if you use the Green River cutoff on the UP from Pocatello, you can combine the Pioneer section with the CZ westbound and have your own late departure from Denver eastbound. It's interesting. Northbound the two trains combine in Pocatello and southbound they split there.

PIONEER

Pioneer Pioneer

8:00 AM	lv	VANCOUVER BC	arr	10:00 PM

2:20 PM	lv	SEATTLE arr	3:55 PM

5:50 PM	arr	PORTLAND lv	12:15 PM

6:20 PM	lv	PORTLAND(PT)	arr	11:35 AM

5:55 AM	arr	BOISE lv	1:15 AM

6:00 AM	lv	BOISE arr	1:05 AM

8:15 AM	arr	SHOSHONE(MT)	lv	11:00 PM

5:30 AM	lv	SUN VALLEY	arr	1:30 AM

7:30 AM	arr	SHOSHONE	lv	11:30 PM

8:20 AM	lv	SHOSHONE	arr	10:55 PM

10:00 AM	arr	POCATELLO	lv	9:15 PM

6:45 AM	lv	WEST YELLOWSTONE	arr	12:30 AM

9:45 AM	arr	POCATELLO	lv	9:30 PM

10:30 AM	lv	POCATELLO	arr	8:00 PM

2:50 PM	arr	GREEN RIVER	lv	3:40 PM

2:55 PM	lv	GREEN RIVER	arr	3:35 PM

8:25 PM	arr	CHEYENNE(BOWIE)	lv	10:05 AM

8:30 PM	lv	CHEYENNE(BOWIE)	arr	10:00 AM

10:30 PM	arr	DENVER lv	8:15 AM

11:10 PM	lv	DENVER(MT)	arr	7:15 AM

7:41 AM	arr	LINCOLN lv	12:14 AM

7:47 AM	lv	LINCOLN arr	12:08 AM

8:59 AM	arr	OMAHA lv	10:39 PM

9:14 AM	lv	OMAHA arr	10:29 PM

6:50 PM	arr	CHICAGO(CT)	lv	2:00 PM

Desert Desert

Wind DESERT WIND Wind

11:15 AM	lv	POCATELLO	arr	9:00 PM

1:45 PM	arr	OGDEN lv	6:15 PM

1:55 PM	lv	OGDEN arr	6:05 PM

2:50 PM	arr	SALT LAKE CITY	lv	4:45 PM

3:00 PM	lv	SALT LAKE CITY	arr	4:35 PM

3:40 PM	lv	MILFORD(CEDAR CITY)(MT)	lv	1:05 PM

10:45 PM	arr	LAS VEGAS(PT)	lv	7:00 AM

11:15 PM	lv	LAS VEGAS	arr	6:30 AM

7:00 AM	arr	LOS ANGELES	lv	11:00 PM


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## DesertRat (Jan 24, 2010)

I thought there was a thread about the DW. I really hope it comes back. It would be a good additional route besides the SWC.


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## TN Tin Man (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for reviving this topic,

I for one would love to see both the Desert Wind and the Pioneer come back. I have always thought that Amtrak missed the boat by not using Denver as a point to split-join routes. Keep in mind that the demise of these routes led to daily service on the Empire Builder. That route now is solidly established. Amtrak could really score a hit with a well advertised route through Las Vegas to LA. Not to mention a Pioneer that provides service Denver -(Through Wyoming) SLC/Ogden - Boise - Portland - Seattle. That would give my home state service again and also open the Pacific Northwest to easy access to Utah and the Colorado front range. These population bases are outdoor oriented and train friendly I think these routes could become profitable if you market the short routes to Denver with connections east. The Empire Builder, and Southwest Chief can still provide direct service west. The California Zephir needs to go back to being the Chicago- Denver- and all point west train.

These are just my dreams of the past and wishes for the future of west coast Amtrak service.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jan 24, 2010)

If there's going to be a conventional speed train from Los Angeles to Los Vegas that terminates at Los Vegas, it ought to be an overnight train with sleeping cars.


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## sunchaser (Jan 24, 2010)

There was a feasibility study done back in October, but I just did a quick search to see if there is any update on it, nothing so far.

Unless somebody out there has some inside info.

After taking the California Zephyr & Coast Starlight from SLC-->OLW round trip last June, I'd love to take the Pioneer up to OLW, then return via Coast Starlight-California Zephyr. We really enjoyed the Parlor Car!

The question is not just money, but whether or not the powers that be really want it to be reinstated.


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## TN Tin Man (Jan 24, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> There was a feasibility study done back in October, but I just did a quick search to see if there is any update on it, nothing so far.Unless somebody out there has some inside info.
> 
> After taking the California Zephyr & Coast Starlight from SLC-->OLW round trip last June, I'd love to take the Pioneer up to OLW, then return via Coast Starlight-California Zephyr. We really enjoyed the Parlor Car!
> 
> The question is not just money, but whether or not the powers that be really want it to be reinstated.


Sunchaser

Your correct there was a study done late last year. Amtrak, for some reason looks at the East as a "serve as many as we can" and the the west as Long distance only.

They have no intrest breaking the West into shorter, possibly more profitable, segments. Let alone altering the old routes. Think of the ridership possibilities if you change the old Pioneer route in Colorado from Denver - Greeley- Cheyenne. To Denver - Boulder - Ft. Collins - Cheyenne. AMTRAK's study didn't even consider Timetable changes. They used the old time table that served Ogden and Boise in the middle of the night. Those are large population centers that, if serviced during the day could make the route work. There is a counter AMTRAK -study posted on either Friends of AMTRAK webpage or Or Track Online. Just search AMTRAK Pioneer, you can find it


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## sunchaser (Jan 25, 2010)

WY Tin Man said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > There was a feasibility study done back in October, but I just did a quick search to see if there is any update on it, nothing so far.Unless somebody out there has some inside info.
> ...


It would be good if it came through Salt Lake too. Especially if it came through some time during the day & daily service.

I've read the studies-what I was saying is no decision has been made on it yet.

Since we have been taking the train & talking to friends & neighbors about it, it is surprising how many people do not know that Amtrak stops here twice a day. We talked to one friend, & because of us telling him about Amtrak, he took a RT around Christmas!


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## RailDreamer (Jan 25, 2010)

I rode the DW in 1993 from LA to CHI and it was great. I'm a song writer...wait, I was a song writer at the time, and wrote a song called Dessert Wind with my guitar during the trip. I remember playing it for a group in the club car one night. That was magical. Miss this train.


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## Casinocim (Jan 25, 2010)

Can someone refresh my memory.

I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.

That was such a fun trip.

You all know I am for the Desert Wind. And sorry, bypassing Salt Lake. A straight run from Denver to Las Vegas


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## TN Tin Man (Jan 25, 2010)

Casinocim said:


> Can someone refresh my memory.I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.
> 
> That was such a fun trip.
> 
> You all know I am for the Desert Wind. And sorry, bypassing Salt Lake. A straight run from Denver to Las Vegas


I think the bus ride you remember was the transfer from the Ogden station on the Pioneer to Salt Lake City for the CZ/DW, If memory serves me the CZ split and combined at SLC with the DW.


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## DET63 (Jan 26, 2010)

Casinocim said:


> Can someone refresh my memory.I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.
> 
> That was such a fun trip.
> 
> You all know I am for the Desert Wind. And sorry, bypassing Salt Lake. A straight run from Denver to Las Vegas


Is a direct (I hesitate to use the word _straight_ when talking about traveling through the Rockies) trip from Denver to Las Vegas without going through Salt Lake City even possible? If possible, would it be practical?


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## sunchaser (Jan 26, 2010)

DET63 said:


> Casinocim said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone refresh my memory.I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.
> ...


If they chose to lay out a more direct route avoiding Salt Lake City, they would have to do the train set split in Denver.

Or in Helper, or Green River, Utah. Both are very small stations, unmanned with no checked baggage.

Both the Desert Wind & the Pioneer would start out in Chicago as part of the California Zephyr, & split off in Salt Lake City.

To me it would make sense to have the split in SLC again. I'm not going to hold my breath for either train to come back, but it really would be nice. I know we would take one, possibly both of them regularly.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 26, 2010)

DET63 said:


> Casinocim said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone refresh my memory.I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.
> ...


It is possible. It is also possible to go from New York to Chicago without passing through western Pennsylvania. Neither makes any logistical sense.

GML's Law: Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.


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## tnuno6 (Jan 26, 2010)

sunchaser said:


> Many years ago, my Mom took Amtrak from San Bernardino, Ca (SNB) to Salt Lake City, Ut (SLC). She said she thought it went through Las Vegas. Would that have been the 'Desert Wind'? I know the route is gone, anybody know why or if Amtrak will ever bring it back?



ther has been talk at work (amtrak) but there smething about the desert tortoise being protected


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## sunchaser (Jan 26, 2010)

tnuno6 said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Many years ago, my Mom took Amtrak from San Bernardino, Ca (SNB) to Salt Lake City, Ut (SLC). She said she thought it went through Las Vegas. Would that have been the 'Desert Wind'? I know the route is gone, anybody know why or if Amtrak will ever bring it back?
> ...



When I was a kid they were not protected. We used to bring them home & keep them as pets in the back yard.

We always took very good care of them. They loved to eat dandelions & tomatoes.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jan 27, 2010)

The Desert Tortoise was the NIMBY/BANANA hat trick to kill the Las Vegas talgo.

See, apparently they are going to be hurt by another train on a super-congested UP freight line. Actually, I think the EIS provided a FONSI.


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## AlanB (Jan 27, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> GML's Law: Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.


Actually while I agree in general with that, if one folds back one of the door panels and then throws down some snow, it is possible to ski through a revolving door. :lol:

I've never tried that idea, and rather doubt that I would do so, but it would work.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 27, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > GML's Law: Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
> ...


As that late,great philosopher Roger Miller sang: "..You can't roller skate in a buffalo herd, But you can be happy if you've a mind too.." :lol:


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## wrjensen (Jan 27, 2010)

AlanB said:


> Green Maned Lion said:
> 
> 
> > GML's Law: Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
> ...


Depends on the size of the revolving Door. I know of one at a hospital it Baltimore you could ski thought it close to 12 ft in Diameter.


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## karl (Jan 27, 2010)

1. Service to Las Vegas would be great... I do think a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind from PDX/SEA to LA via SLC and LA would be the best bet for Amtrack. I just don't think there will be enough new E-W traffic justifing a split at Denver. Connections at SLC should suffice for the E-W traffic.

2. Looking at maps it appears UP has a line from Lyndal UT to Provo, it might be possible to route a Pioneer/Desert Wind on that line and have a connection to the CZ at Provo in addition to SLC.

3. The Afton canyon debacle might be mitigated by usiing a paired track arrangement for one direction on the BNSF Barstow to Ludlow, rebuild the Tidewater Southern (abd 1943) to Crucero and bypass the canyon and snails.

4. I think bringing a San Joquean up to Barstow (or the P/DW to Bakersfield) would provide a substancial amount of additonal passengers both to a revived DW and the SWC.

5. Moving the PDX section of the EB to the Oregon side, and combining with the P/DW to Hinkle might make sense, saving about 200 engine miles.

6. Re revolving doors, do Amtrak's presidents ski?


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## DesertRat (Jan 27, 2010)

There's already discussion of a high speed train; I hope they include Barstow as well even though the HS rail is slated to start in Victorville. If extending the San Joaquin run to Barstow would be productive I'd be all for that. I want to see more options besides the SWC. Since we're already a major hub of roadways it would be great to bring back the passenger traffic on the rail as well.


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## MikeM (Jan 27, 2010)

Casinocim said:


> Can someone refresh my memory.I once rode the Pioneer to meet my sister and her husband, I think they boarded the train in Rock Springs, WY. I remember having to get off the train, cannot remember where, to ride a bus to Salt Lake, to catch the Desert Wind there to Las Vegas. My sister doesn't remember the bus.
> 
> That was such a fun trip.
> 
> You all know I am for the Desert Wind. And sorry, bypassing Salt Lake. A straight run from Denver to Las Vegas


Let's hear it for Rock Springs WY - and Wyoming in general. They could use Amtrak service, particularly with the horrible winter weather they get blasted with, and the lack of air service.

But back to the question at hand. The Pioneer train split from the CZ in Denver, and came up onto the Union Pacific at Cheyenne. Actually, didn't go to Cheyenne, it stopped at a shed - later a wide spot where the shed used to stand - at Borie, where the Denver line hooked onto the UP mainline. UP built a metal building with restrooms to avoid a backup move into Cheyenne when the CZ used to go through Wyoming. By the time the Pioneer came along, UP had torn down the relatively new "station" so all that was left was a concrete pad and the former parking area. Passengers gathered at the UP station downtown and took a bus out to the train.

After Cheyenne, the train continued across Wyoming and into Ogden UT. Here, a bus connected down to Salt Lake, where your sister and husband would have connected with the Desert Wind.

If my memory serves me right, the Desert Wind trainset laid over at the Salt Lake depot and returned to LA the next evening. Meantimes, the Pioneer trainset was combined into the CZ in Denver. Then again, they say memory is the second thing to go, so it could be at risk. :blink:

Hope that helps. But again, I think Wyoming would benefit from train service, and it really is a pretty ride, if you like high mountain deserts and the like.


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## DET63 (Jan 27, 2010)

I'd like to see at least a stub train to Las Vegas, perhaps two or three services a day from L.A., maybe running only on Fridays and weekends, like the ACES to Atlantic City. Ideally, this would supplement a daily service from L.A. to Salt Lake City.


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## alanh (Feb 1, 2010)

DET63 said:


> Is a direct (I hesitate to use the word _straight_ when talking about traveling through the Rockies) trip from Denver to Las Vegas without going through Salt Lake City even possible? If possible, would it be practical?


I finally dug out my rail atlas. This is not and never has been a line across southern Utah. You have to either go through Provo or Flagstaff, there's nothing in between.

In theory a new line could be run alongside I-70, which itself was a brand-new route not following a previous highway. However, the chances of a new-alignment line over very rough terrain.. uh, no.


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## dart330 (Feb 1, 2010)

I attended the RailPAC - NARP joint meeting in Las Vegas in Dec. The concensus seemed to be that Amtrak service was not coming back to Vegas in my lifetime (and I am in my late 20s).

After listening to a presentation from the DesertXpress people, most of us at the meeting agreed that project would be the only way to get rail service again.

Here is a map I made for RailPAC showing the CAHSR & DesertXpress trains with the current Amtrak Routes.


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## hippyman (Apr 9, 2010)

printman2000 said:


> RailFanLNK said:
> 
> 
> > I and some others would love to see this route brought back. Currently, Brenda's son is stationed in Las Vegas and will be deploying to the Middle East soon. Yes we can fly, but to get from LNK to Vegas we have to drive to KCY and then have a 3 hour van ride in the middle of the night to Vegas. I would love to hop on here in LNK and get to Vegas or LA.
> ...



Agreed. I'm about 3 hours east of Amarillo, so I have to drive for awhile, just to catch a train. Hopefully, if they do plan on any new routes, they'll come thru here. I would love to see the old desert wind route come back tho  . Does anyone know where I can find out about the possible future routes?


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## dlagrua (Apr 10, 2010)

There is a new train being proposed that will originate in Victorville CA and run to Las Vegas called the Xpress. It is a planned high speed train that will be privately run and operated.

As for the Desert Wind, that route when operated by Union Pacific originally ran from Los Angeles to Ogden UT (might have been through Salt Lake City too) where it connected with the Chicago Train, probably the Zephyr. I do not believe that there was ever a cross country (Chicago) train that stopped in Los Vegas.


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## Ryan (Apr 10, 2010)

dlagrua said:


> There is a new train being proposed that will originate in Victorville CA and run to Las Vegas called the Xpress. It is a planned high speed train that will be privately run and operated.As for the Desert Wind, that route when operated by Union Pacific originally ran from Los Angeles to Ogden UT (might have been through Salt Lake City too) where it connected with the Chicago Train, probably the Zephyr. I do not believe that there was ever a cross country (Chicago) train that stopped in Los Vegas.


Through cars from the Desert Wind were attached to the Desert Wind at SLC, so you can consider the Desert Wind a cross country train from LA to Chicago (Amtrak certainly did).

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=1...a&item=0055


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## hippyman (Apr 10, 2010)

Ryan said:


> dlagrua said:
> 
> 
> > There is a new train being proposed that will originate in Victorville CA and run to Las Vegas called the Xpress. It is a planned high speed train that will be privately run and operated.As for the Desert Wind, that route when operated by Union Pacific originally ran from Los Angeles to Ogden UT (might have been through Salt Lake City too) where it connected with the Chicago Train, probably the Zephyr. I do not believe that there was ever a cross country (Chicago) train that stopped in Los Vegas.
> ...


OK, where can I find out about the proposed new routes, for amtrak?


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## AlanB (Apr 10, 2010)

hippyman said:


> OK, where can I find out about the proposed new routes, for amtrak?


Go here and roll down to the PRIAA section. There are a few studies that were mandated by Congress for Amtrak to do regarding possible restoration of old routes. Note: These are just studies and far from done deals. And short of either funding being provided, or a direct order from Congress to restore a route, don't expect to see any of these trains running anytime soon.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Apr 10, 2010)

DET63 said:


> I'd like to see at least a stub train to Las Vegas, perhaps two or three services a day from L.A., maybe running only on Fridays and weekends, like the ACES to Atlantic City. Ideally, this would supplement a daily service from L.A. to Salt Lake City.


You might like to know that at one time pre Amtrak the Union Pacific ran a train called the City of Las Vegas.

It was promoted as a gamblers special from LA to Las Vegas. It left LA 8 a..m. arrived Las Vegas 3 pm. On the return it left Vegas at 4.30p.m arrived LA 11.15 pm

It operated daily.

It had coaches and a buffet lounge counter car. It advertised this as "all meals, Continuous service and refreshments."

From this 1957 timetable other trains on that route were the City of Los Angeles, the Challenger and a local to Chicago and the City of St. Louis to, well, St. Louis.


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## Roland Behunin (Apr 20, 2010)

Shawn said:


> I would LOVE to see them do a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind...
> SEA --> PDX --> SLC --> Vegas --> LAX
> 
> MAYBE, have a thru coach and sleeper to Denver or beyond...
> ...


Actually, this could be a good route. I would like ot see this train extended to Vancouver, BC, and San Diego CA.

I wonder if we could get a movement going to lobby the different politicians to get this going?

roland


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## hippyman (Apr 20, 2010)

Roland Behunin said:


> Shawn said:
> 
> 
> > I would LOVE to see them do a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind...
> ...


Why not, the highway, and airline lobbyists do it, dont they? And look at the shape both of them are in now.


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## Chris J. (Apr 20, 2010)

Roland Behunin said:


> Shawn said:
> 
> 
> > I would LOVE to see them do a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind...
> ...


A "Desert Pioneer" would also be over the 750 mile limit


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## jis (Apr 20, 2010)

MikeM said:


> But back to the question at hand. The Pioneer train split from the CZ in Denver, and came up onto the Union Pacific at Cheyenne. Actually, didn't go to Cheyenne, it stopped at a shed - later a wide spot where the shed used to stand - at Borie, where the Denver line hooked onto the UP mainline. UP built a metal building with restrooms to avoid a backup move into Cheyenne when the CZ used to go through Wyoming. By the time the Pioneer came along, UP had torn down the relatively new "station" so all that was left was a concrete pad and the former parking area. Passengers gathered at the UP station downtown and took a bus out to the train.
> After Cheyenne, the train continued across Wyoming and into Ogden UT. Here, a bus connected down to Salt Lake, where your sister and husband would have connected with the Desert Wind.


That was the last incarnation of the Pioneer. The first incarnation of the Pioneer under Amtrak was a Coach only train from Salt Lake City to Seattle via Ogden, Portland OR. Then it got a Sleeper and a Coach transferred to it from the San Francisco Zephyr at Ogden. The original Desert Wind was a Ogden LAX train via Salt lake City, Las Vegas. It then got a few cars transferred to it from the San Francisco Zephyr at Ogden.

Everything got re-oriented when the San Francisco Zephyr, which ran through Wyoming was discontinued and was replced by California Zephyr which ran through Colorado. The car shuffling moved from Ogden to Salt Lake City, and both the Pioneer and the Desert Wind oroginated a SLC picking up through cars from Chicago off of the California Zephyr. It was nuatural then to give the entire service from Chicago to LAX and Chicago to SEA via SLC the monikers Desert Wind and Pioneer respectively. At this time there was no service through Wyoming. Then a few years later the split of the Pioneer from the CZ was moved to DEN restoring service through Wyoming by having the Pioneer run through Wyoming. This was the last incarnation of the Pioneer that you mention above.


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## hippyman (Apr 21, 2010)

jis said:


> MikeM said:
> 
> 
> > But back to the question at hand. The Pioneer train split from the CZ in Denver, and came up onto the Union Pacific at Cheyenne. Actually, didn't go to Cheyenne, it stopped at a shed - later a wide spot where the shed used to stand - at Borie, where the Denver line hooked onto the UP mainline. UP built a metal building with restrooms to avoid a backup move into Cheyenne when the CZ used to go through Wyoming. By the time the Pioneer came along, UP had torn down the relatively new "station" so all that was left was a concrete pad and the former parking area. Passengers gathered at the UP station downtown and took a bus out to the train.
> ...



Then what are the odds of Amtrak bringing back a route to vegas? With more people riding the train, and the airlines quality going downhill so fast, it seems to me like it would be a good idea.


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## jis (Apr 21, 2010)

hippyman said:


> Then what are the odds of Amtrak bringing back a route to vegas? With more people riding the train, and the airlines quality going downhill so fast, it seems to me like it would be a good idea.


Brian Rosenwald of Amtrak talked about it at the NARP meeting in Washingtoin DC. So the odds of a restored Desert Wind in some form, at least minimally as a Coach/Cafe train are probably better than that of the SL East getting restored


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## evan E (Jul 23, 2010)

MrFSS said:


>


Rough schedule

7 am SLC (MT) 10:17 pm

7:33 am Milford UT 9:44 pm

9:02 am Delta UT 8:15 pm

10:05 am Milford UT (MT) 7:12 pm

11:00 am Caliente NV (PT) 4:12 pm

ar 1:50 pm L.V. dep 1:52 pm

dep 2:05 pm ar 1:37 pm

5:30 pm Barstow CA 10:17 am

6:05 pm Victorville ca 9:37 am

7:10 pm San Bernadino 8:25 am

7:41 pm Ontario ca 7:54 am

7:51 pm Pomona ca 7:41 am

9:06 pm L.A. (PT) 7 am


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## zephyr17 (Jul 23, 2010)

AlanB said:


> hippyman said:
> 
> 
> > OK, where can I find out about the proposed new routes, for amtrak?
> ...


Unfortunately, the Desert Wind wasn't one of the routes mandated to be studied by PRIIA. The Pioneer was, though.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Jul 24, 2010)

LAX already has two LD trains to and from CHI. If we are dreaming I want a train NYP-WAS-Roanoke, VA-Nashville, TN- Little Rock, AR, Oklahoma City, OK-Amarillo, TX-Flagstaff, AZ-LAX. Probably would require brand new track. This would be a great connection between NYP/WAS and LAX


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## evan E (Dec 20, 2010)

oops--They could just put the LV train station where the greyhound is now


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## zephyr17 (Dec 20, 2010)

evan E said:


> oops--They could just put the LV train station where the greyhound is now


The existing station is still intact within the Union Plaza hotel, just closed off. Wouldn't take much to reopen it.


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## Evan (Dec 21, 2010)

My schedule:

Southbound:

Dep SLC 7 am (MT)

Tooele ut 7:40 am

delta ut 9:42 am

milford ut 11:06 am (MT)

caliente nv 12:01 pm (PT)

arr LV 1:55 pm

dep LV 2:10 pm

barstow ca 5:30 pm

victorville ca 6:05 pm

san bernardino ca 7:20 pm

riverside ca 7:41 pm

fullerton ca 8:22 pm

arr LA 9:06 pm


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## Evan (Dec 21, 2010)

Evan said:


> My schedule:
> 
> Southbound:
> 
> ...


Oops--I forgot to say the Northbound:

Dep LA 7 am

Fullerton ca 7:35 am

riverside ca 8:17 am

san bernardino ca 8:43 am

victorville ca 9:55 am

barstow ca 10:35 am

Arr LV 1:55 pm

Dep LV 2:10 pm

Caliente nv 4:30 pm (PT)

milford ut 7:30 pm (MT)

delta ut 8:54 pm

tooele ut 10:53 pm

arr SLC 11:37 pm


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## GG-1 (Dec 21, 2010)

Evan said:


> arr LV 1:55 pm
> 
> dep LV 2:10 pm
> 
> ...


Aloha

Interesting that you have both directions in Vegas at the same time. I suspect that the station and track that is currently there can not support 2 at once. Secondly I think the Vegas arrivals don't fit the times most people would like to be here. Also the time at LA do not match what I believe most LA residents need or want. I have no idea on the northern impact.


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## GG-1 (Dec 21, 2010)

Aloha

Earlier today I went looking for the Vegas Amtrak Station. The Platform is still there. A very long one stretching from the Main Street Hotel Past the Plaza hotel to almost to Bonanza. Thanks to a rail friendly Security Guard, he allowed me to the back parking area to see the outside of the station building. the LV sign is still there, the Amtrak Sign is gone but you can read the Amtrak name by the holes and fading on the wall. Someone else here is correct that it is now a break area for the Plaza employees. The Station building is fenced off from the platform and tracks. There were a lot of freight cars sitting on the track by the platform.

I will post the pictures I took later.


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## GG-1 (Jan 10, 2011)

GG-1 said:


> Aloha
> 
> Earlier today I went looking for the Vegas Amtrak Station. The Platform is still there. A very long one stretching from the Main Street Hotel Past the Plaza hotel to almost to Bonanza. Thanks to a rail friendly Security Guard, he allowed me to the back parking area to see the outside of the station building. the LV sign is still there, the Amtrak Sign is gone but you can read the Amtrak name by the holes and fading on the wall. Someone else here is correct that it is now a break area for the Plaza employees. The Station building is fenced off from the platform and tracks. There were a lot of freight cars sitting on the track by the platform.
> 
> I will post the pictures I took later.


Aloha

As promised, a bit late, here are the pictures of the station I took.






















While looking in the back area I wondered how long a train could use the station. It appeared that a 30 car passenger train would fit on the track.


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## alanh (Jan 11, 2011)

Here's an aerial photo of the area -- rotate it to get a better view.


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## GG-1 (Jan 11, 2011)

alanh said:


> Here's an aerial photo of the area -- rotate it to get a better view.


Aloha

That Satellite Picture is interesting. Any Idea of when made? What I observed on the ground was a little different, and some things in the picture could not be seen due to the freight cars on the track. What I could not see from where I was allowed to go was the Platform between tracks on the south end of the Plaza. nor did I see any light poles.

Where I was allowed was from the curved area behind the Plaza, the Station building is that low structure partially hidden behind the north building. I was allowed to go through the exhibitor/service parking almost to Bonneville Ave. The Picture shows that the "platform" extends along the east track until the west track siding ends and joins the middle track.

It appears that the infrastructure would permits passenger service to reasonably be restored.

When I last rode the DW to Vegas there was only the East track, the additional 2 were under construction. Also I don't remember that lit platform as that far from the station building

Mahalo alanh for the link.

Eric


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## Benjamin Wharton (Aug 29, 2011)

We used to take the Desert Wind regularly from 1992 to 1997 when it was discontinued. In those years the DW & Pioneer were combined with the CZ in SLC and from there the combined train, retaining the CZ name, proceeded east to Denver & Chicago. Hope both trains (DW & Pioneer) are reinstated soon.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 29, 2011)

Seems extremely unlikely that we'll ever see the Desert Wind or Pioneer return again. I have mixed feelings about it myself. Yes, it would be nice to have an Amtrak train to Las Vegas but for folks living in Texas (where Vegas typically supplants Orlando among the empty nest crowd) this train would require a very roundabout routing that would be unlikely to compete well with dozens of direct flights each day.


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