# VIA Rail Coach Equipment Poll



## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 4, 2014)

I've been wanting to do this for a while. Very few people seem to compare the various coaches operated by VIA Rail, there's informal sleeper polls, loco discussions, etc., but nothing much about the coaches. VIA Rail has a lot of interesting, unique coaches from a wide timespan, they all have their own advantages and disadvatages, but it's hard to find a good source of information on their different characteristics. Note that most Amtrak coaches are reletively similar in interiors, seating, etc..

Choose your favourite coach and maybe describe why it's your favourite. Here are your choices:

*Budd 62-seat Long Distance Coach (HEP)*

8100-8129 ex-Canadian Pacific

8130-8145 from US roads

8145-8147 from US roads (60 seats and bar)

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/coach-car-units-8100-8147

_Used throughout the network. Rarely used on Corridor._

*Budd 68-seat Short Distance Coach (HEP-II)*

*Budd 56-seat Short Distance "Business Class" Coach (HEP-II)*

4100-4125 from US roads (68-seat galley installed)

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/coach-car-units-4100-4125

4000-4009 from US roads (56-seat galley installed) BC

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/galley-club-car

_Used on Corridor and Skeena._

*Bombardier 68-seat Short Distance "Light Rapid Comfortable" Coach*

*Bombardier 56-seat Short Distance "Light Rapid Comfortable Business Class" Coach*

*REPRESENTS ALL LRC'S*

3300-3399 built for VIA Rail (68-seat galley installed)

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/lrc-coach

3451-3475 built for VIA Rail (56-seat galley installed) BC

_http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/lrc-club-car-units-3451-3475_

3600-3601 built for VIA Rail (56-seat galley installed) BC

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/lrc-club-car-units-3600-3601

_Used on Corridor only._

*Metropolitan-Cammell 48-seat "Renaissance" Coach*

*COACH AND CLUB ARE IDENTICAL*

7100-7113 built for cancelled Nightstar (BC actually identical)

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/renaissance-club-car

7200-7232 built for cancelled Nightstar

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet/renaissance-coach-car

_Used on Corridor and Ocean._

Of course, the HEP-II and LRC cars are put together because if the different versions were put to the test against each other, obviously the Business Class would win over the Economy Class cars. For the Renaissance cars however, the Business and Economy cars are identical.

Hopefully this poll/thread gets more than just a few votes/posts. Would really like to know what you guys think, with some loving the Budds, some loving the LRC's (especially rebuilt ones), and some loving the Renaissance cars. Don't know much about VIA myself.


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## PerRock (Mar 4, 2014)

Disclaimer: I've never ridden VIA.

I picked the Renaissance/Mk4 cars, as I like the MK4 cars over in the UK. However the if I were picking lounges it would have to be the Park cars.

peter


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 4, 2014)

PerRock said:


> Disclaimer: I've never ridden VIA.
> 
> I picked the Renaissance/Mk4 cars, as I like the MK4 cars over in the UK. However the if I were picking lounges it would have to be the Park cars.
> 
> peter


You've never ridden VIA at all? Do note that the Renaissance cars have very different interiors from the Mark 4 cars.

I've tried the LRC on a short joyride but did not like the poor legroom. I've heard the HEP-II coaches have a bit better legroom even though they have the same interior. Seemed like less legroom than Amtrak SD coach.


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## Anderson (Mar 4, 2014)

The Corridor Budds have given me some of the best rail rides I've ever had, hence I picked them.


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## Bob Dylan (Mar 4, 2014)

I agree with Anderson, I also picked the Budd Coaches! Ive enjoyed my many rides on the VIA Corridor between Windsor, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal! (they made a pretty decent Sleeping Car and Dome Car also!  I only rode in a LD Budd Coach from Vancouver to

Jasper but found it Comfortable!)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 5, 2014)

Anderson said:


> The Corridor Budds have given me some of the best rail rides I've ever had, hence I picked them.


Ah, I see the Corridor Budds may well be better than the LRC originals! Maybe I ought to try them out if I can get on the Skeena this year.

How do they compare versus the LD Budds? I know they have a bit more seating (=less legroom?) but maybe their seats are better, maybe the interior, or the ride quality?


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## Anderson (Mar 5, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > The Corridor Budds have given me some of the best rail rides I've ever had, hence I picked them.
> ...


At least in BC, they were very comfortable (moreso than the seat I wound up with on the VIA Adirondack). That said, I've never actually done coach in Canada, so I feel unqualified to answer that question.


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 5, 2014)

Corridor: Renaissance for the huge tray-table for working on and the option to have a single seat. Other than that, the LRC equipment is just fine and comfortable to ride. The HEP-II’s have comfortable seats and nice interiors but I found the ride quality rough.

Long Distance Coach: The original CPR Canadian HEP-I coaches.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 5, 2014)

But how does the LRC compare against the HEP-II? I heard that the HEP-II actually ride quite smoothly if you sit towards the middle.

So as far as the seats themselves, the HEP-I is definitely the best? Probably has the most legroom too. Are the Ren seats widest, since they have only three a row?


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 6, 2014)

Seats in the LRCs and HEP-IIs are nearly identical. One shortcoming of both…..the tray-table is very small and folds out of the armrest.



And I’ve always found the ride quality of the old Budds to be rougher but as you say, it improves towards the middle, away from the wheels. 



I’ve never measured Ren seats but they do seem a bit wider perhaps due to only three-across but the actual width of the car is narrower than standard North American equipment.



Here’s a Ren interior.












…..and the large Ren tray-table compared to the LRC (Breakfast in Business Class – first course)


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## Anderson (Mar 6, 2014)

The Rens are an awkward setup from my point of view; they're not _bad_...I'm just not a fan. The Budds, IMHO, have a smoother ride, and at least in BC the seats have seemed to line up quite well with the windows.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 6, 2014)

Nice pics, NS VIA Fan. Thanks a bunch for those files you sent me. According to the HEP-II file, a page 47 caption says (paraphrashed), "While the interior resembles that of the LRC cars, the new generation of seats feature a number of improvements over those used in the LRCs."

So if comparing the seats, are they really better? I guess the window seat must be better on the Budd HEP-II's because I didn't like the slanted sides on the LRC.

I agree with Anderson that the Renaissance cars look awkward, interior looks like a glorified regional jet. I don't think I would like the curved sides, which is one of the reasons I don't like to fly and also affects my bus preferences.

From this thread I assume that the HEP-II's ride rougher than LRC's but are somewhat more comfortable? Then Rens are really out for debate, some like them, some hate them. I have heard they are very unreliable.

What about HEP-I vs HEP-II?


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 6, 2014)

About the only improvement in a HEP-II seat over an LRC I can think of is the placement of the tray-table. It flips out of the side armrests on a HEP-II instead of the centre armrest on the LRC. This allows the centre armrest on the HEP-II to be folded up when the adjacent seat is not occupied for more room. Seat comfort is the same.


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## railiner (Mar 6, 2014)

NS VIA Fan said:


> About the only improvement in a HEP-II seat over an LRC I can think of is the placement of the tray-table. It flips out of the side armrests on a HEP-II instead of the centre armrest on the LRC. This allows the centre armrest on the HEP-II to be folded up when the adjacent seat is not occupied for more room. Seat comfort is the same.


I haven't ridden on any of the cars under discussion, but since I am of average build, I kind of like the idea of having a more substantial center armrest (that contains the tray tables), simply to insure that some larger than average person occupying the adjacent seat is less likely to encroach upon my space....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 7, 2014)

Then I guess if I had to choose between the HEP-I and HEP-II on the Skeena I would have to go with the HEP-I. Their seats seem to be the beat in both comfort and legroom.

Who made these seats? I hear Heywood-Wakefield made them, the same company that made the Sleepy Hollow seats. Anyone know who exactly made them?

Railiner, nice to see you back. Another vacation?

Found a picture: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hPo8aXtoFKE/T9LJZJsPzLI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/aiEPV9ktzY0/s1600/seats.jpg


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## railiner (Mar 8, 2014)

Heywood-Wakefield http://www.heywood-wakefield.com/ , is a different company that purchased the name of the famous, long defunct company that built the wonderful Sleepy Hollow seats, long ago....the current company does not have a commercial seating division like the old one did.

I haven't been away, except for vacation from 5-17 January.....but thanks for the welcome, anyway...


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 8, 2014)

Just busy at the station?

Thanks for the heads-up about Heywood-Wakefield, Jason of Rapido Trains has ex-VIA Heywood-Wakefield seats in his living room: http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/2012/01/26/immersed-in-trains/.

So I was thinking that VIA's light blue "Daynighter" seats might also be made by Heywood-Wakefield. Looking at multiple pictures of the Sleepy Hollows, I see their signature is those banded cushions which I can't find anywhere else. If anyone has ridden in Daynighter seats, how are they in comparison to the Sleepy Hollow?

Edit: These seats in the Park Car dome look like Sleepy Hollow: http://johnnyjet.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/GeorgieJet-Via-RailBritish-Columbia-2012-5.jpg.


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## NS VIA Fan (Mar 9, 2014)

When the Dayniters were first introduced by CN in the early ‘70s.......this was the style of seats. They were built in the company shops.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 9, 2014)

Those are Dayniter seats? But they really do look very different from the seats in VIA's HEP-I coaches. Where did the HEP-I seats come from anyway? I thought they were "Daynighter" seats but it appears not to be the case, unless there is a difference between "Dayniter" and "Daynighter".

I guess what I'm really trying to decide right now is HEP-I vs HEP-II, since they both run on the Skeena.

And do any of these coaches smell real bad? I know that different bus models smell very different, a few models make me gag while some others actually smell pleasent.


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## railiner (Mar 9, 2014)

Here http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=261 is a link with the story behind the supremely comfortable, Sleepy Hollow seats....

They were made in a variety of versions... short-back such as shown in a link in previous post #17, to allow visibility in Vista-Domes, high-back, singles, doubles, reclining and rotating, with or without footrests and legrests....

IMHO, they are the most comfortable seat for long-distance travel ever made, and I include the latest lie-flat seats in First Class airliner cabins....

I could easily do a "west coast turnaround" in one of them.....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 10, 2014)

Why don't people make these anymore? Now I must ride in the dome of a Park Car to see what they really feel like. The Canadian Pacific coaches used to have them, but during rebuilds, VIA replaced them with the current "Daynighter" seats. Should've kept the old seats.

Scroll down a bit with this: http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/four.htm.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 31, 2014)

Wow, finally someone voted for the LRC! Been a long time!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Mar 31, 2014)

Interesting, another vote for the HEP-II. But the HEP-I LD Coaches are still leading by a long shot. I'm still pretty sure they're the more comfortable.


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