# Travel Insurance? Don't!



## The Davy Crockett

I'm putting this in the Amtrak Rail Discussion forum because anyone who has booked Amtrak online knows about the travel insurance option, which many times looks like a stupid idea from the get go. (Would you like to add travel insurance for something like $9.00 for that $20.00 ticket? :blink: )

From the LA Times:



> The 114-year-old National Consumers League concluded recently that travel insurance is usually a bad deal because most policies are riddled with exceptions that allow insurance companies to reject claims for payoffs.Most insurance companies won't disclose their track record for paying out claims, making it nearly impossible to judge whether insurance is worth the money, the league points out.
> 
> "The unfortunate reality is that these protection policies bring in big bucks for the airlines each year but offer very little real value for customers," said Sally Greenberg, executive director of the National Consumers League.
> 
> The most common exceptions used by insurance companies to reject your payout are illnesses involving a preexisting medical condition, pregnancy or childbirth, losing a job or having a business meeting canceled, according to the league. Some policies won't pay out even if your trip is canceled because of nuclear contamination or terrorist attacks.
> 
> The U.S. Travel Insurance Assn. disagreed with the consumer league's conclusion, saying policies that are rife with exceptions are usually less expensive than more comprehensive policies with fewer exceptions.
> 
> Still, association spokeswoman Linda Kundell added: "There is no insurance that covers everything under the sun."


At least for Amtrak, I hope that this most annoying irritant when buying a ticket online adds some real bucks to the bottom line.


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## pianocat

For a $20 train ticket, of course it makes no sense to take out a $9 insurance policy. All I can do is tell my personal experience with buying the insurance, and how it saved me a WHOLE lot of money on my first LD Amtrak trip. Summer 2011 I was on a Vacations by Rail tour. CHI-SLC on the Zephyr, then motorcoach to Glacier. Then the plan was Amtrak EB back to Chicago. I bought the insurance [which was the same policy/company that Amtrak uses] because this was NOT an inexpensive trip and I wanted some peace of mind if something 'came up', there'd be some recouping my costs. We left Chicago in late June, 2011. Shortly after arrival in Salt Lake City, Amtrak announced that they had to shut down all EB service east of Minot due to the flooding. Ok, so the tour director scrambles around figuring out what to do with her 65 pax who were expecting to return to CHI via train in July. She got it worked out that we'd go west to Seattle on EB, and everyone would have to fly home from there. Approximately 50% of the pax had bought the insurance, and for us,the one-way cross country airfare, hotel in Seattle, and meals were covered by the Allianz insurance. The pax without the insurance were out of luck, as Amtrak was not giving refunds or vouchers, nor was Vacations by Rail any help, financially either. Talk about some really mad people........ So, that's why I buy the insurance on the LD trains. Short jaunts, nope. Just my 2 cents


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## Blackwolf

I've bought travel insurance in the past, though luckily have had no reason to use it yet. Generally, I'll look into it when the trip costs exceed $1k or there are multiple companies/hotels/travel modes involved. And international travel especially (usually, that also has the other just-mentioned elements.) I use an independent company called Travel Safe Vacation Insurance, and though I've not read their fine print in about two years (the last time insurance was bought,) I did read it then with a satisfaction that most cases would be covered.

As with most other things these days, YMMV! Just read the fine print before signing, and buyer beware!


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## Guest

The Davy Crockett said:


> The most common exceptions used by insurance companies to reject your payout are illnesses involving a preexisting medical condition, ...
Click to expand...

Over in a cruise related website, there is a person who's throwing a tantrum over just this.

Apparently, his wife was dying of cancer. He decided to take her on one last cruise. He booked the cruise and bought travel insurance to cover its cost. Unfortunately, she died before they could go.

The insurance company denied his claim, because of the pre-existing condition clause.

Sorry, I'm with the insurance company on this one, no matter how sad of a story this guys tells. Insurance is suppose to cover the unexpected. In this case, it wasn't all that unexpected. Well, it was unexpected to the insurance company because the guy just happened to forget to mention it when he took out a policy that covers (amongst other things) passengers who can't take a trip due to a major injury or death.

Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.


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## Devil's Advocate

Guest said:


> Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.


Source?

Let's face it, the travel insurance market is full of loopholes that are obvious to them and opaque to us.

Here you are defending them but you can't even bother to do so under a registered account. Color me unimpressed.

I rarely buy insurance for trips involving Amtrak because...

1. I use points on Amtrak, and buying travel insurance for points will not reimburse you in money or points.

2. I've never been able to determine if Amtrak is considered a "common carrier" when buying flight insurance.

Sometimes I buy refundable airline tickets but those often cost twice or even three times as much as non-refundable tickets.

So far as I can tell if you're a traveler who uses points as part of your trip then travel insurance is probably not going to help much.

Even if you don't use points and buy insurance for both the train and the airplane portions of your trip how can you tell who should pay?

So long as you cannot make both an Amtrak purchase and a plane purchase on the same site at the same time the insurance angle is defunct.

Unless your whole trip is on Amtrak, in which case you're probably in college or retired and couldn't care less how long you're delayed.


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## Nathanael

I've never seen the point of travel insurance. (Health insurance for foreign travel is another matter.) ALWAYS get refundable tickets.


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## SarahZ

Those are extremely common insurance exclusions. I'm not surprised at all.


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## benjibear

With any insurance there are loopholes that the insurance company can use to get out of paying a claim. I always have the opinion to only buy insurance if you can't cover the cost yourself. For travel insurance, I figure I am saving to go on vacation and I will take the chance. Most of my trips are not that expensive. If I was paying like $20,000+ for a once in a lifetime trip, it probably would be worth it but for a few thousand dollars, it is not worth it to me.

Same with extended warranties. A few years ago I was buying a toaster for my grandmother that was 9.99 that the cashier asked if I wanted an extended warranty for 12.99!


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## MrFSS

For the very first Gathering in Chicago a number of years ago I was going to fly in and out of ORD. Got a good price on the RT air ticket and they offered insurance for, I think, $28.00. On a lark I took it.

A few days before the Gathering I developed some medical conditions that kept me from attending, per doctor's orders. A statement from the doctor to the insurance company brought me a check for the full amount within about two weeks. Best $28 I ever spent.


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## MrKenFL

As stated by folks before - it all depends on the value (cost) of your trip !

I had a situation 8 years ago where we had bought the travel insurance on a

cruise and my S.O.'s Dad became terminally ill 5 days before the cruise - we got Dr's

statements, cancelled cruise, and got our FULL cruise cost back ($3100) , less of course

the cost of the insurance which was approx. $200 !

Good deal for me !


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## SarahZ

Part of it comes down to assumed risk. If you know you could go into labor any minute and book a trip, it's kind of ridiculous to assume the insurance company will pay if you have your baby the day before and have to cancel your trip. At some point, the onus is on you.

For the most part, though, you do have to weigh the costs versus the benefits. I wouldn't pay for insurance on a $20 trip, but I would if the trip cost $300+ (depending on how much the insurance cost, of course). I always read the terms and conditions before I decide if it's worth it. It's the same way I decide if I want to keep paying for comp/collision on my vehicle or if it's time to switch to liability-only. At some point, the premium is going to be at or near the value of the car if it's totaled, and that's the time to switch to liability-only.


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## Ispolkom

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that many credit cards (including the AGR card, I believe) give you some sort of travel insurance for trips purchased using the card. This doesn't help me, since most of my long trips are on points or miles.

WRT Amtrak, the worst that has happened to me was misdirected luggage (Amtrak paid for the toiletries and other necessities we bought), and a missed connection (Amtrak paid for a day room and meals.). Not much need for insurance.


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## CoachSlumber

Financially, I wouldn't mind paying for it if they weren't so slimy about not paying. I recently had a trip booked to Mexico. The airline told me it had discontinued the flight on the day I was to leave, so I couldn't go and lost the hotel portion. The insurance company, Allianz, told me they didn't cover that. An example of , "so just what do you cover?"


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## CoachSlumber

Devil's Advocate said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
> 
> Let's face it, the travel insurance market is full of loopholes that are obvious to them and opaque to us.
> 
> Here you are defending them but you can't even bother to do so under a registered account. Color me unimpressed.
> 
> I rarely buy insurance for trips involving Amtrak because...
> 
> 1. I use points on Amtrak, and buying travel insurance for points will not reimburse you in money or points.
> 
> 2. I've never been able to determine if Amtrak is considered a "common carrier" when buying flight insurance.
> 
> Sometimes I buy refundable airline tickets but those often cost twice or even three times as much as non-refundable tickets.
> 
> So far as I can tell if you're a traveler who uses points as part of your trip then travel insurance is probably not going to help much.
> 
> Even if you don't use points and buy insurance for both the train and the airplane portions of your trip how can you tell who should pay?
> 
> So long as you cannot make both an Amtrak purchase and a plane purchase on the same site at the same time the insurance angle is defunct.
> 
> Unless your whole trip is on Amtrak, in which case you're probably in college or retired and couldn't care less how long you're delayed.
Click to expand...

Amtrak would be considered a common carrier; and unless you are talking about crash insurance, your policy should apply to the whole trip.


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## Bob Dylan

benjibear said:


> Same with extended warranties. A few years ago I was buying a toaster for my grandmother that was 9.99 that the cashier asked if I wanted an extended warranty for 12.99!


:lol: This is called Up Selling and only Insurace, Car and Real Estate Salespersons used to Do It, Now Everyone Does It!

Let the Buyer Beware!


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## AmtrakBlue

I held out for a better deal on the extended warranty at the car dealership when I bought a new car with my husband's life insurance money. Don't know if I got the best deal, or even needed it, but I consulted with my husband after the 2nd or 3rd offer and he said "get it". And my husband had worked in this same building though for another dealership, for many years.


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## tonys96

I looked at the options for insurance on the site. It asked for my state of residence and when I was traveling to calculate a premium and give me options, so I put in leaving on Jan 15, returning on Jan 31. Maximum coverage for cancellation/interruption insurance was only $500...at a cost of $35. Fare to anywhere in a roomette would be far more than the $500.......


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## Devil's Advocate

SarahZ said:


> I always read the terms and conditions before I decide if it's worth it. It's the same way I decide if I want to keep paying for comp/collision on my vehicle or if it's time to switch to liability-only. At some point, the premium is going to be at or near the value of the car if it's totaled, and that's the time to switch to liability-only.


 You always read the insurance contract before purchasing? In my experience the short version can be twenty or more pages and they don't even provide that until after I've bought the insurance. Or at least I couldn't figure out how to find and read it. Then again I don't work for an insurance company so maybe I'm just ignorant of how this is supposed to work. If you'd be willing to post an insurance contract and explain how to evaluate the legally binding terms and conditions to the rest of us I'd be interested in learning how this works.



CoachSlumber said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Source?
> 
> Let's face it, the travel insurance market is full of loopholes that are obvious to them and opaque to us.
> 
> Here you are defending them but you can't even bother to do so under a registered account. Color me unimpressed.
> 
> I rarely buy insurance for trips involving Amtrak because...
> 
> 1. I use points on Amtrak, and buying travel insurance for points will not reimburse you in money or points.
> 
> 2. I've never been able to determine if Amtrak is considered a "common carrier" when buying flight insurance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amtrak would be considered a common carrier; and unless you are talking about crash insurance, your policy should apply to the whole trip.
Click to expand...

 Source?


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## lionelhoguy

My trip this January will cost $3000, travel insurance $34. Why not?


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## SP&S

It's a great big "it depends". How much exposure do you have? How expensive is the trip? How expensive is the insurance and - _very important_ - what does it cover? I have a good friend who was traveling thru Europe when his wife became gravely ill in Gibraltar, seriously disrupting their plans. He was sure glad he had insurance.

It's a gamble, but the more there is to lose the more it's worth considering. I generally don't buy it but then my trips aren't normally that expensive.


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## penfrydd

The only time I purchase travel insurance it's actually flight accident insurance. It's the only way I can tolerate flying (along with Lorazapam and a few drinks...) I know it's not logical, but I am way more at ease once I have that insurance. I guess if the plane goes down, I will have finally provided for my family, something other than love and guidance.


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## VentureForth

In those rare cases, I would assume that the airlines pay compensation to stave off or in response to class action lawsuits.


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## Everydaymatters

Devil's Advocate said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always read the terms and conditions before I decide if it's worth it. It's the same way I decide if I want to keep paying for comp/collision on my vehicle or if it's time to switch to liability-only. At some point, the premium is going to be at or near the value of the car if it's totaled, and that's the time to switch to liability-only.
> 
> 
> 
> You always read the insurance contract before purchasing? In my experience the short version can be twenty or more pages and they don't even provide that until after I've bought the insurance. Or at least I couldn't figure out how to find and read it. Then again I don't work for an insurance company so maybe I'm just ignorant of how this is supposed to work. If you'd be willing to post an insurance contract and explain how to evaluate the legally binding terms and conditions to the rest of us I'd be interested in learning how this works.
> 
> 
> 
> CoachSlumber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Source?
> 
> Let's face it, the travel insurance market is full of loopholes that are obvious to them and opaque to us.
> 
> Here you are defending them but you can't even bother to do so under a registered account. Color me unimpressed.
> 
> I rarely buy insurance for trips involving Amtrak because...
> 
> 1. I use points on Amtrak, and buying travel insurance for points will not reimburse you in money or points.
> 
> 2. I've never been able to determine if Amtrak is considered a "common carrier" when buying flight insurance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amtrak would be considered a common carrier; and unless you are talking about crash insurance, your policy should apply to the whole trip.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Source?
Click to expand...

I also have wondered about Amtrak being considered a common carrier. When I was planning a cruise and return from Seattle via Amtrak, I called the insurance company and asked that question. The lady hemmed and hawed and without conviction said yes, Amtrak is considered a common carrier. I was uneasy about it, but fortunately, there was no reason to file a claim.


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## Guest

Everydaymatters said:


> I also have wondered about Amtrak being considered a common carrier. When I was planning a cruise and return from Seattle via Amtrak, I called the insurance company and asked that question. The lady hemmed and hawed and without conviction said yes, Amtrak is considered a common carrier. I was uneasy about it, but fortunately, there was no reason to file a claim.


Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.


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## I always rode the Southern

Booked a 7 day cruise in 2008 and because my mother was in a nursing home, decided to take the less than $30 trip insurance option, just in case. Our last port was cozumel and returning to the ship I tripped, fell and fractured my shoulder x3. The insurance paid for the medical costs and pain meds provided by ships Dr.(which my med insurance didn't cover) and all of my copays for treatment, which included several months of physical therapy, and massage therapy, which my insurance didn't cover at all. Very happy I took that coverage.


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## Devil's Advocate

I'm all for more data points but please keep the following key points in mind.

1. If you never had to actually use your insurance then it's not really a relevant data point.

2. If you DID have to use your insurance then PLEASE include the seller, insurer, and underwriter.

Thanks!


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## I always rode the Southern

Devil's Advocate said:


> I'm all for more data points but please keep the following key points in mind.
> 
> 1. If you never had to actually use your insurance then it's not really a relevant data point.
> 
> 2. If you DID have to use your insurance then PLEASE include the seller, insurer, and underwriter.
> 
> Thanks!


I would have included the insurer, but can't remember the name. It was offered when I booked the cruise with Costa, as part of the package.

edit to add I can tell you they gave me no problems at all. I sent in receipts and they paid no questions asked.


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## VentureForth

Devil's Advocate said:


> I'm all for more data points but please keep the following key points in mind.
> 
> 1. If you never had to actually use your insurance then it's not really a relevant data point.
> 
> 2. If you DID have to use your insurance then PLEASE include the seller, insurer, and underwriter.
> 
> Thanks!


 That's not necessarily true. It would serve to determine what percentage of purchases are actually needed. Insurance is purchased to mitigate risk. If 100 policies are purchased and only one is redeemed, the risk is low. However, if the number of purchases is 25 and 10 are redeemed, the risk seems to be much greater. If you put all the people that bought a policy and didn't use it in the same bucket as those who didn't, then you have to conversely include all those who didn't buy the policy that would have benefited to get a good feel for the risk.

A data point is never irrelevant. It's simply more data.


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## Devil's Advocate

VentureForth said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for more data points but please keep the following key points in mind.
> 
> 1. If you never had to actually use your insurance then it's not really a relevant data point.
> 
> 2. If you DID have to use your insurance then PLEASE include the seller, insurer, and underwriter.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> That's not necessarily true. It would serve to determine what percentage of purchases are actually needed. Insurance is purchased to mitigate risk. If 100 policies are purchased and only one is redeemed, the risk is low. However, if the number of purchases is 25 and 10 are redeemed, the risk seems to be much greater. If you put all the people that bought a policy and didn't use it in the same bucket as those who didn't, then you have to conversely include all those who didn't buy the policy that would have benefited to get a good feel for the risk.
> 
> A data point is never irrelevant. It's simply more data.
Click to expand...

Data is never irrelevant?

That's almost like a hoarder saying trash is never irrelevant.

As someone who is forced to manage terabytes of digital trash as part of their job I would beg to differ.


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## tonys96

lionelhoguy said:


> My trip this January will cost $3000, travel insurance $34. Why not?


Be sure to look at the face amount of the coverage. I do not think it is $3000.


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## lionelhoguy

Good call, we have coverage for about half. I should have read the policy before. I guess I just assumed that it would cover the whole cost.


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## Nathanael

I always rode the Southern said:


> Booked a 7 day cruise in 2008 and because my mother was in a nursing home, decided to take the less than $30 trip insurance option, just in case. Our last port was cozumel and returning to the ship I tripped, fell and fractured my shoulder x3. The insurance paid for the medical costs and pain meds provided by ships Dr.(which my med insurance didn't cover) and all of my copays for treatment, which included several months of physical therapy, and massage therapy, which my insurance didn't cover at all. Very happy I took that coverage.


When you're travelling *out of the US*, you are quite likely to need travel insurance to cover *medical costs*, because most American medical insurance (which is consistently awful) won't cover out-of-US medical costs *at all*.

Actually, if your medical insurance is an HMO with a severely restricted network of providers (very common -- crappy, crappy US insurance), you may need travel insurance within the US for the same reason -- if you are travelling to an area where your medical insurance won't pay for anything.

I mentioned this already -- you need medical cover. But travel insurance *is largely for medical costs*. If you expect your medical costs to be covered by your standard medical insurance, then there's little or no point in travel insurance, and there's no point in it for other types of costs - get refundable tickets and reservations instead.


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## Bob Dylan

True the Medical Insurance and Refundable or Changeable Reservations Comments! Whether for Transportation or Hotels, It's ithe Only Way to Travel!!!


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## me_little_me

In many cases, the insurance is overpriced because much is refundable or changeable.

My big issue with the insurance and with those defending the "pre-existing conditions" issue is that this is often used by insurance companies to evade paying. Many state that if you saw a doctor about it withing the last six months (or more for some companies), then it is pre-existing. So if I see my doctor for an issue, even if it turns out to be a non-problem or if it is a checkup (with good results) and then suddenly have an unexpected but "related" problem, they refuse to pay.

Many CCs cover the same things with similar conditions at no charge including, effective recently, my Chase Amtrak card.


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## mjaynes288

If you are worried about the preexisting conditions exclusions shop around. There are policies that will waive it if you insure your trip in the full amount within 14 or 21 days of booking or first payment. If the cost of the trip goes up you have to add value to the policy. I have bought travel insurance incase of out of country medical treatment and/or evacuation. A policy is totally useless if it does not cover preexisting conditions.

I use Squaremouth to find travel insurance. I read the plain English summary. Then I read the entire contract. There are always interesting things in there. Know what you are buying.


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## Guest

me_little_me said:


> So if I see my doctor for an issue, even if it turns out to be a non-problem or if it is a checkup (with good results) and then suddenly have an unexpected but "related" problem, they refuse to pay.


I don't believe that is true. The doctor would have had to noted in his/hers records that they found a serious medical problem during the "good" checkup.

Again, as in the one true case I know of, the person had terminal cancer, later died of that cancer, and the family was subsequently denied a claim for the non-refundable travel costs of the trip they never took. The insurance company was not being sneaky or unreasonable. The terminal cancer was indeed a pre-existing condition at the time of booking the trip.



me_little_me said:


> Many CCs cover the same things with similar conditions at no charge including, effective recently, my Chase Amtrak card.


Now _there_ is a good example of exclusions.


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## cargo13

Our travel insurance provider CSA changed names to GENERALI and they have additional services for travelers--identity theft protection for 6 months after departure of your trip & a Teladoc service for connecting to a physician over their app. We used both on a train trip through Canada.

www.generalitravelinsurance.com

Someone spoofed our credit card. And I got a skin infection on my hand. GENERALI solved both problems with their coverages. I would buy again but these could be edge cases.


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## neroden

FWIW "common carrier" is a very old legal definition which means they'll take anyone. The alternative is only taking members of a particular club, employes of a particular company, etc.


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## Skyline

Nathanael said:


> I've never seen the point of travel insurance. (Health insurance for foreign travel is another matter.) ALWAYS get refundable tickets.


Agree on foreign health insurance. I recently spent 10 days in Canada (including 4+ days on The Canadian), and though I have good health insurance in the US (Medicare plus supplement), it is basically useless in Canada. I was able to purchase a 10-day policy good in Canada for about $55, and it seemed to cover everything with no deductible and a high ceiling. Thankfully I didn't need to use it, but one major health incident that I'd have to pay for out-of-pocket could have wiped out my retirement.


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## Skyline

neroden said:


> FWIW "common carrier" is a very old legal definition which means they'll take anyone. The alternative is only taking members of a particular club, employes of a particular company, etc.


Not only will they take anyone, they have to.


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## Cho Cho Charlie

Guest said:


> Sorry, I'm with the insurance company on this one, no matter how sad of a story this guys tells. Insurance is suppose to cover the unexpected. In this case, it wasn't all that unexpected. Well, it was unexpected to the insurance company because the guy just happened to forget to mention it when he took out a policy that covers (amongst other things) passengers who can't take a trip due to a major injury or death.
> 
> Travel insurance does cover truly legitimate claims.


I have to agree with you.

Plus, getting even with the insurance company by throwing a temper tantrum all over the 'net (including right here), isn't going to change the facts either.


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## dogbert617

Guest said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have wondered about Amtrak being considered a common carrier. When I was planning a cruise and return from Seattle via Amtrak, I called the insurance company and asked that question. The lady hemmed and hawed and without conviction said yes, Amtrak is considered a common carrier. I was uneasy about it, but fortunately, there was no reason to file a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's really ridiculous. For cruise ship insurance you really have to be in the city/town the cruise is departing from, one day before? That's a silly as crap requirement, for insurance. But I'll admit I'm not as knowledgeable on insurance related things, as others probably are. I wonder if Allianz(sp?) has such a requirement, if you're doing the reverse(cruise ship to connecting to Amtrak in Seattle)?

Anyway, I don't feel there's much of a point to having insurance, for Amtrak trips. But that's just me. And though I have sometimes bought non-refundable tickets if I wanted to travel cheaply on Amtrak, that one would just be best to buy a refundable ticket on Amtrak just in case they can't travel at the last minute, sans Allianz insurance.


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## jebr

dogbert617 said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have wondered about Amtrak being considered a common carrier. When I was planning a cruise and return from Seattle via Amtrak, I called the insurance company and asked that question. The lady hemmed and hawed and without conviction said yes, Amtrak is considered a common carrier. I was uneasy about it, but fortunately, there was no reason to file a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, that's really ridiculous. For cruise ship insurance you really have to be in the city/town the cruise is departing from, one day before? That's a silly as crap requirement, for insurance. But I'll admit I'm not as knowledgeable on insurance related things, as others probably are. I wonder if Allianz(sp?) has such a requirement, if you're doing the reverse(cruise ship to connecting to Amtrak in Seattle)?
> 
> Anyway, I don't feel there's much of a point to having insurance, for Amtrak trips. But that's just me. And though I have sometimes bought non-refundable tickets if I wanted to travel cheaply on Amtrak, that one would just be best to buy a refundable ticket on Amtrak just in case they can't travel at the last minute, sans Allianz insurance.
Click to expand...

I imagine that particular restriction is mainly to help reduce the chance of a misconnect creating a very expensive payout. If a misconnect or significant delay causes a hotel room to be missed for a night, that likely would be, at most, a couple hundred dollars. A cruise is often over a thousand dollars.

That being said, the normal policy I've seen for a misconnect to another form of transportation requires 12 hours between the two, with some generous policies offering a 6 hour minimum. (That's what I was finding when I was looking for coverage for my Canadian trip, anyways, when I had a same-evening departure out of YVR.) Even with a 6-hour minimum, you'd still be looking at arriving at 9 AM if the boat leaves at 3 PM. (I'm not sure how common it is to have a late evening departure, but from what I've seen/heard is that it's typically an afternoon departure.) A 12-hour minimum would basically require arriving on a red-eye flight to be eligible. I'd guess that, in that case, they'd just write in that you have to be in "the day before" a cruise to ensure there's less confusion and to allow a full overnight in case something goes haywire.


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## dogbert617

jebr said:


> dogbert617 said:
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> Guest said:
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> 
> 
> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also have wondered about Amtrak being considered a common carrier. When I was planning a cruise and return from Seattle via Amtrak, I called the insurance company and asked that question. The lady hemmed and hawed and without conviction said yes, Amtrak is considered a common carrier. I was uneasy about it, but fortunately, there was no reason to file a claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, that's really ridiculous. For cruise ship insurance you really have to be in the city/town the cruise is departing from, one day before? That's a silly as crap requirement, for insurance. But I'll admit I'm not as knowledgeable on insurance related things, as others probably are. I wonder if Allianz(sp?) has such a requirement, if you're doing the reverse(cruise ship to connecting to Amtrak in Seattle)?
> 
> Anyway, I don't feel there's much of a point to having insurance, for Amtrak trips. But that's just me. And though I have sometimes bought non-refundable tickets if I wanted to travel cheaply on Amtrak, that one would just be best to buy a refundable ticket on Amtrak just in case they can't travel at the last minute, sans Allianz insurance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I imagine that particular restriction is mainly to help reduce the chance of a misconnect creating a very expensive payout. If a misconnect or significant delay causes a hotel room to be missed for a night, that likely would be, at most, a couple hundred dollars. A cruise is often over a thousand dollars.
> 
> That being said, the normal policy I've seen for a misconnect to another form of transportation requires 12 hours between the two, with some generous policies offering a 6 hour minimum. (That's what I was finding when I was looking for coverage for my Canadian trip, anyways, when I had a same-evening departure out of YVR.) Even with a 6-hour minimum, you'd still be looking at arriving at 9 AM if the boat leaves at 3 PM. (I'm not sure how common it is to have a late evening departure, but from what I've seen/heard is that it's typically an afternoon departure.) A 12-hour minimum would basically require arriving on a red-eye flight to be eligible. I'd guess that, in that case, they'd just write in that you have to be in "the day before" a cruise to ensure there's less confusion and to allow a full overnight in case something goes haywire.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining all this. So I see the norm to expect for such insurance with connections to another form of transportation is 12 hours, and sometimes if you're lucky 6 hours? Is there a way the insurance company verifies that you made it to this city(i.e. Seattle, or wherever else the cruise is departing from) by the usual 6 or 12 hour limit, so that your insurance remains valid in case the cruise ship you've booked cancels at the last minute? Since I could see getting insurance for that, since those are usually thousands of dollars to book.


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## jebr

In my experience, it's based on the ticketed times for the common carrier you're taking, not the time you actually arrive. This is because part of the insurance is in case your common carrier trip is delayed to such an extent that you miss your onward transportation/journey. (Thus, if your Amtrak train was 24 hours late and you missed your cruise because of that, as long as the original ticketed transfer time met the requirements it'd be up to the insurance company to either pay for onward transportation to meet with the cruise ship, give a refund, or some mix of the two.) I don't know what they'd do if you were driving; my guess is that if you were driving it's on you to make it in time.


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## dogbert617

jebr said:


> In my experience, it's based on the ticketed times for the common carrier you're taking, not the time you actually arrive. This is because part of the insurance is in case your common carrier trip is delayed to such an extent that you miss your onward transportation/journey. (Thus, if your Amtrak train was 24 hours late and you missed your cruise because of that, as long as the original ticketed transfer time met the requirements it'd be up to the insurance company to either pay for onward transportation to meet with the cruise ship, give a refund, or some mix of the two.) I don't know what they'd do if you were driving; my guess is that if you were driving it's on you to make it in time.


Oh, okay. So I see it's mainly based on ticketed times for (say, the Empire Builder west to Seattle) if you rode Amtrak, then did your boat cruise(from say, Seattle). I guess it's safe to assume that insurance would be honored(providing the insurance company doesn't have a loophole that screws you out of a claim) if you got to Seattle one day early, then your boat cruise to Alaska(or British Columbia for all I know, and you had a passport) was scheduled for one day later and by some chance(i.e. internal boat engine issue) it got cancelled at the last minute?

I understand this much better because of your posts, so thanks for explaining all of this!


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## jebr

I'm honestly not 100% sure how that would be covered or how that limitation would affect that sort of coverage. Typically the "one day early" is moreso to lessen losses because a plane/train/bus is late arriving than it is for the ongoing travel to be cancelled. If it was an engine failure, though, I'd expect the cruise line to offer compensation, with any travel insurance likely being secondary. If the question is whether travel insurance would pay for the sunk cost of the tickets to get to Seattle (or wherever) when onward travel (or the purpose for the trip) is cancelled after getting to Seattle, I honestly have no idea. That'd be best answered by asking the insurance company in writing of some sort (though even then they may find some exclusion to deny it.)


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## JoeBas

Bought travel insurance for the first time for my upcoming South Padre beach trip. Of course, I made sure it covered "work reasons" with a notarized letter, because being in the weather business August can tend to get a bit dicey.


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## Devil's Advocate

I've purchased trip insurance from time to time, mainly when I'm booking a long haul trip far in advance, but I don't actually expect it to do anything for me when the time comes that I actually need it. It's mainly there in case things go horribly wrong and someone interrupts my story of woe to tell me I should have bought travel insurance. :lol:


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## JoeBas

Nice! LOL

I expect it'll do the trick for us, we're just driving, and it's just the rental cost of the beachfront condo, so it's not a PHENOMENAL sum. But for $89, given the time of the year, it's worth it just for the peace of mind.


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## jebr

Devil's Advocate said:


> I've purchased trip insurance from time to time, mainly when I'm booking a long haul trip far in advance, but I don't actually expect it to do anything for me when the time comes that I actually need it. It's mainly there in case things go horribly wrong and someone interrupts my story of woe to tell me I should have bought travel insurance. :lol:


Then they'll just say you should've bought better travel insurance...as if such a thing exists. h34r:


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## Cho Cho Charlie

dogbert617 said:


> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that's really ridiculous. For cruise ship insurance you really have to be in the city/town the cruise is departing from, one day before? That's a silly as crap requirement, for insurance. But I'll admit I'm not as knowledgeable on insurance related things, as others probably are. I wonder if Allianz(sp?) has such a requirement, if you're doing the reverse(cruise ship to connecting to Amtrak in Seattle)?
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is part of any particular insurance, but I do know that if you want to use one of the Cruise discounts offered by Amtrak, one of the requirements for those discounts, is that you have to schedule your Amtrak travel to arrive the day before before the departure date of your cruise.

I am only going off topic a bit here, because I think this is the source of that comment.


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## SarahZ

DA, I know you asked me this question four years ago, but I missed it. :lol:

Yes, I do read the entire insurance contract. I also read the T&C that come with my credit cards, especially the parts about benefits offered (travel insurance, rental cars, medical coverage, etc).

I never used to, but then I worked for an auto insurance company, and I cannot even attempt to tell you how many times per day I had to tell people that either their policy didn't cover something (which sucked) or (my favorite type of call) that their policy would cover something they weren't expecting would be covered.

So while I may not memorize every single policy I have, I do give them a cursory glance to see if anything leaps out as weird or stupid.  Working in insurance helped me with the lingo, similar to learning Spanish and then living in Barcelona, so I can parse policies much quicker than the average bear.


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## Dixie

This topic falls under my line of work, but I am not an insurance agent.

There are a lot of reasons you may want to purchase travel insurance:


Protect your investment in the trip -- if you can't afford to lose the full amount you've paid for the trip before going, you may want to consider insuring it -- prepaid, nonrefundable rail, air, hotels, car rentals, tours, etc.
Protect yourself in the event your trip is interrupted and you have to return home mid-travel -- can you afford to buy walk-up fares for air (yikes), hotels, rail, car rental, etc. 
What if you are injured or become ill during travel and you have to receive care, possibly even extended care? Will your insurance cover the hospitals, which may be out of network? Do you have the money to be med-flighted back home? If the unthinkable happens, do you have the resources for your remains to be returned home? If you are out of country, do you have the means to pay cash up front before you receive treatment, even surgery, as some facilities require? 
Do you have a condition that could be considered pre-existing? Then you need to make sure any travel insurance you looking at doesn't specifically exclude pre-existing coverage, or that your insurance is purchased in time to waive the pre-existing exclusion a policy may have (some have it, some don't offer it; many have a "lookback period" of a certain number of days on such conditions). 
There are a lot of differences between "supplier" insurance (offered by whatever travel company you are booking with -- Amtrak for example) and independent insurance companies.


Be sure to read the DESCRIPTION OF COVERAGE carefully. It sets forth the provisions under which you'll be covered. 
Be sure to read all the REASONS FOR CANCELLATION AND INTERRUPTION in the Description of Coverage. For example, I just compared one suppler coverage that had 10 Reasons for Cancellation to an Independent option that offered 17 Reasons for Cancellation. If your reason for canceling your trip doesn't fall under that list, your ask may be denied. 
Supplier coverage will often only cover the trip components booked with that supplier. Let's say you use Generic Rail Vacation Company to book a package that includes Amtrak and a hotel and add their brand insurance, it will cover rail and hotel only. It won't cover tours your might book on your own, or air you might purchase to get to your rail start point. You may want to opt for independent insurance instead that would cover the Generic Rail Vacation Company package, plus your air, plus your tours all together. (Cruise line insurance is very much like this.)
Independent coverage will often have higher coverage limits -- look for things like $50,000 medical on independent vs $15,000 medical on supplier. Which coverage would you rather have if you have a heart attack while traveling? Independent often has much higher coverage for medical evacuation. 
Independent coverage often will cover insolvency of the travel company -- if the tour company goes out of business, you can get your money back 
Supplier insurance may offer a "cancel for any reason" provision, but it comes with a lot of strings attached, such as a reduced-percentage travel credit that must be used within a year of cancellation. You can find independent options for CFAR insurance, but it's usually much much more expensive. CFAR can be used in instances such as -- I don't want to travel because my dog died, my girlfriend broke up with me, my kid has a soccer tournament I forgot about, I changed my mind, etc. 
Some independent coverage may be "primary" insurance, while supplier insurance is often "secondary" insurance, which means you have to submit bills to any other insurance you have first before the travel company will pay. That's an important question to ask if you don't want to submit 2x paperwork. 
Independent insurance pricing is often based upon the age of the traveler and the cost of the trip components together. Supplier insurance is usually only based upon price of travel. Note: Sometimes you can combine the two insurance options if independent has really good medical, for example, but Supplier has a pretty good CFAR option. 
Compare trip delay and baggage delay provisions: they will differ as to how long you are delayed before reimbursements kick in. I've seen some with a 5-hour trip delay and some with 3-hour trip delay before coverage starts, some longer. I've seen some with 12-hour baggage delay and some with 24-hour baggage delay before you'll be reimbursed. If you are flying somewhere to board a train or a ship, you'd prefer to have 12-hr baggage coverage so you could get insurance reimbursement for clothes / toiletries before you board. Of course you hope your bags go with you every step of the way! 
Some cheapie supplier insurance relies on you accepting it without research: "Add travel protection for just $20, just click here during checkout." I would avoid that without having time to dig into it. No thanks.
Some travel companies require you to add insurance with deposit, others by final payment. Some independent companies will allow you to add insurance up to the day before departure. Some give you a "free look" period after purchase during which you can receive a refund; after that it's non-refundable. 
Some options may vary by the state in which you live. 
Some credit cards offer travel insurance but there is fine print there as well. Can you pay just the deposit for the trip on that card, or does the full amount have to be put on that card? Do all trip components have to be charged to that card to be covered? Same points apply as above for amounts of coverage, pre-existing, does it cover non-cardholders traveling with you, etc. 
Other points:


You can't buy hurricane coverage after a storm has been named, and you can't buy coverage for an illness after someone comes down with cancer or is already in the hospital. Buy your insurance early. 
If you are concerned about cancellation due to family members who are not traveling ("Grandma is very sick and we may have to cancel,") call the insurance company and ask if pre-existing conditions of non-travelers are an issue. It may be a factor for some companies and not a factor for others. 
If you are booked to travel as a double, but one person cancels under insurance, will your insurance step up and cover your increased single fare? 
Often overlooked is the personal effects coverage -- lose, damage, or have stolen your camera, iThing, cell phone, suitcase, expensive stroller, etc, and it may be covered by your travel protection plan. Some have optional business equipment (i.e., personal computer) coverage for an additional fee. 
Don't buy on price alone, as you can see from above it's not always apples to apples when comparing. Sometimes you do have to dig into that fine print to find the differences. 
Don't under-insure. 
Document everything. Keep receipts and invoices, you'll have to submit them. 
If you are traveling on points vs cash, look for a $0 trip cost option on insurance, or minimum amount coverage if you just need hotels or tours covered. 
All of these items factor into pricing for trip insurance and whether something will be covered when you file a claim.

Again, I'm not an insurance agent, but I deal with this frequently. Call the insurance co before purchase if you have detailed questions that aren't answered by the fine print -- don't take the word of a random stranger on the internet.  Most travel insurance policies aren't that hard to understand, but you do need to read what you're buying to make sure it's going to cover what you need at the levels of coverage you need.


----------



## TinCan782

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> dogbert617 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful of any restrictions. I believe you have to arrive the day before the cruise ship departure (no more, no less), or the insurance doesn't cover a missed connection.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, that's really ridiculous. For cruise ship insurance you really have to be in the city/town the cruise is departing from, one day before? That's a silly as crap requirement, for insurance. But I'll admit I'm not as knowledgeable on insurance related things, as others probably are. I wonder if Allianz(sp?) has such a requirement, if you're doing the reverse(cruise ship to connecting to Amtrak in Seattle)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if this is part of any particular insurance, but I do know that if you want to use one of the Cruise discounts offered by Amtrak, one of the requirements for those discounts, is that you have to schedule your Amtrak travel to arrive the day before before the departure date of your cruise.
> 
> I am only going off topic a bit here, because I think this is the source of that comment.
Click to expand...

Insurance or not, we always plan to arrive the day BEFORE a cruise if out of town. We'll pay the hotel bill for a little peace of mind. If its a locally originating cruise, we'll drive that morning.


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## TinCan782

Dixie said:


> This topic falls under my line of work, but I am not an insurance agent.
> 
> There are a lot of reasons you may want to purchase travel insurance:
> 
> 
> Protect your investment in the trip -- if you can't afford to lose the full amount you've paid for the trip before going, you may want to consider insuring it -- prepaid, nonrefundable rail, air, hotels, car rentals, tours, etc.
> Protect yourself in the event your trip is interrupted and you have to return home mid-travel -- can you afford to buy walk-up fares for air (yikes), hotels, rail, car rental, etc.
> What if you are injured or become ill during travel and you have to receive care, possibly even extended care? Will your insurance cover the hospitals, which may be out of network? Do you have the money to be med-flighted back home? If the unthinkable happens, do you have the resources for your remains to be returned home? If you are out of country, do you have the means to pay cash up front before you receive treatment, even surgery, as some facilities require?
> Do you have a condition that could be considered pre-existing? Then you need to make sure any travel insurance you looking at doesn't specifically exclude pre-existing coverage, or that your insurance is purchased in time to waive the pre-existing exclusion a policy may have (some have it, some don't offer it; many have a "lookback period" of a certain number of days on such conditions).
> There are a lot of differences between "supplier" insurance (offered by whatever travel company you are booking with -- Amtrak for example) and independent insurance companies.
> 
> 
> Be sure to read the DESCRIPTION OF COVERAGE carefully. It sets forth the provisions under which you'll be covered.
> Be sure to read all the REASONS FOR CANCELLATION AND INTERRUPTION in the Description of Coverage. For example, I just compared one suppler coverage that had 10 Reasons for Cancellation to an Independent option that offered 17 Reasons for Cancellation. If your reason for canceling your trip doesn't fall under that list, your ask may be denied.
> Supplier coverage will often only cover the trip components booked with that supplier. Let's say you use Generic Rail Vacation Company to book a package that includes Amtrak and a hotel and add their brand insurance, it will cover rail and hotel only. It won't cover tours your might book on your own, or air you might purchase to get to your rail start point. You may want to opt for independent insurance instead that would cover the Generic Rail Vacation Company package, plus your air, plus your tours all together. (Cruise line insurance is very much like this.)
> Independent coverage will often have higher coverage limits -- look for things like $50,000 medical on independent vs $15,000 medical on supplier. Which coverage would you rather have if you have a heart attack while traveling? Independent often has much higher coverage for medical evacuation.
> Independent coverage often will cover insolvency of the travel company -- if the tour company goes out of business, you can get your money back
> Supplier insurance may offer a "cancel for any reason" provision, but it comes with a lot of strings attached, such as a reduced-percentage travel credit that must be used within a year of cancellation. You can find independent options for CFAR insurance, but it's usually much much more expensive. CFAR can be used in instances such as -- I don't want to travel because my dog died, my girlfriend broke up with me, my kid has a soccer tournament I forgot about, I changed my mind, etc.
> Some independent coverage may be "primary" insurance, while supplier insurance is often "secondary" insurance, which means you have to submit bills to any other insurance you have first before the travel company will pay. That's an important question to ask if you don't want to submit 2x paperwork.
> Independent insurance pricing is often based upon the age of the traveler and the cost of the trip components together. Supplier insurance is usually only based upon price of travel. Note: Sometimes you can combine the two insurance options if independent has really good medical, for example, but Supplier has a pretty good CFAR option.
> Compare trip delay and baggage delay provisions: they will differ as to how long you are delayed before reimbursements kick in. I've seen some with a 5-hour trip delay and some with 3-hour trip delay before coverage starts, some longer. I've seen some with 12-hour baggage delay and some with 24-hour baggage delay before you'll be reimbursed. If you are flying somewhere to board a train or a ship, you'd prefer to have 12-hr baggage coverage so you could get insurance reimbursement for clothes / toiletries before you board. Of course you hope your bags go with you every step of the way!
> Some cheapie supplier insurance relies on you accepting it without research: "Add travel protection for just $20, just click here during checkout." I would avoid that without having time to dig into it. No thanks.
> Some travel companies require you to add insurance with deposit, others by final payment. Some independent companies will allow you to add insurance up to the day before departure. Some give you a "free look" period after purchase during which you can receive a refund; after that it's non-refundable.
> Some options may vary by the state in which you live.
> Some credit cards offer travel insurance but there is fine print there as well. Can you pay just the deposit for the trip on that card, or does the full amount have to be put on that card? Do all trip components have to be charged to that card to be covered? Same points apply as above for amounts of coverage, pre-existing, does it cover non-cardholders traveling with you, etc.
> Other points:
> 
> 
> You can't buy hurricane coverage after a storm has been named, and you can't buy coverage for an illness after someone comes down with cancer or is already in the hospital. Buy your insurance early.
> If you are concerned about cancellation due to family members who are not traveling ("Grandma is very sick and we may have to cancel,") call the insurance company and ask if pre-existing conditions of non-travelers are an issue. It may be a factor for some companies and not a factor for others.
> If you are booked to travel as a double, but one person cancels under insurance, will your insurance step up and cover your increased single fare?
> Often overlooked is the personal effects coverage -- lose, damage, or have stolen your camera, iThing, cell phone, suitcase, expensive stroller, etc, and it may be covered by your travel protection plan. Some have optional business equipment (i.e., personal computer) coverage for an additional fee.
> Don't buy on price alone, as you can see from above it's not always apples to apples when comparing. Sometimes you do have to dig into that fine print to find the differences.
> Don't under-insure.
> Document everything. Keep receipts and invoices, you'll have to submit them.
> If you are traveling on points vs cash, look for a $0 trip cost option on insurance, or minimum amount coverage if you just need hotels or tours covered.
> All of these items factor into pricing for trip insurance and whether something will be covered when you file a claim.
> 
> Again, I'm not an insurance agent, but I deal with this frequently. Call the insurance co before purchase if you have detailed questions that aren't answered by the fine print -- don't take the word of a random stranger on the internet.  Most travel insurance policies aren't that hard to understand, but you do need to read what you're buying to make sure it's going to cover what you need at the levels of coverage you need.


Thanks...useful info. I'm getting to the age where trip insurance is a consideration.


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## RSG

Aside from Dixie's most excellent advice, I've used travel insurance in the past to insure rental car coverage where my personal auto insurance was lacking or there would be some question that any claim might be covered. In many cases, travel insurance with a rental car rider is cheaper than buying the insurance or waivers that the rental car companies want you to purchase, and is often more comprehensive. This is more valuable now that auto insurance companies are treating all claims, regardless of fault, as evidence of insurabilty worthiness and as a factor in driver rating.

The advice about point-of-purchase insurance ("decline" or "accept") is well-made. It's why I find Amtrak's upselling attempt to be rather odious, as not only is the extent of coverage not disclosed, but there are better policies available independently from the same underwriter. Yet, the language makes it seem that most calamities mentioned will be covered when in fact I would imagine most would not be.


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## Asher

SarahZ said:


> DA, I know you asked me this question four years ago, but I missed it. :lol:
> Just curious, just as there is a time limit on insurance claim, is there a time limit on a reply to a post in this forum. ☺


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