# Sleeper Door Locks



## Glo Nevius (Apr 4, 2012)

We usually book a bedroom for our travel that involves an overnight, but this time we are only going to be on the Coast Starlight for approx. 12 hours, so we booked a roomette so that we can still enjoy the atmosphere we have become accustomed to. Is there a way to lock your roomette doors when you are away from the room and enjoying a meal or the lounge car? If not, is there much plifering in the sleeper cars? I assume I can shade off the windows when we close our doors and walk away? Thanks for your knowledgeable assistance.


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## R30A (Apr 4, 2012)

I have encountered people who thought someone stole from them in sleeper perhaps 3 times in my rather numerous travels on amtrak. Each of them eventually found the item in their room.


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## R30A (Apr 4, 2012)

But to answer your question more directly, no, there are no external locks.


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## Railroad Bill (Apr 4, 2012)

Unfortunately, you can not lock your roomette door from the outside when you leave. We have never had a problem with theft in the sleeper cars but it is always good advice to take any valuables with you when you leave the room. I always have my camera with me and make sure other items are hidden in luggage or under the seat. 

Although most trains have the diner or lounge car separating coach from sleeper cars, that is no always the case. Most good sleeping car attendants know who is supposed to be in their car and discourage strangers from entering the car.

As far as the people riding in the sleeper, I have found most are "Old Cogers" like us and still have some values about not taking things that don't belong to you. 

Common sense is usually the best policy in avoiding crime


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## Linda T (Apr 4, 2012)

Railroad Bill said:


> Unfortunately, you can not lock your roomette door from the outside when you leave. We have never had a problem with theft in the sleeper cars but it is always good advice to take any valuables with you when you leave the room. I always have my camera with me and make sure other items are hidden in luggage or under the seat.
> 
> Although most trains have the diner or lounge car separating coach from sleeper cars, that is no always the case. Most good sleeping car attendants know who is supposed to be in their car and discourage strangers from entering the car.
> 
> ...


What Railroad Bill said. :lol: The only time I ever experienced a person in a sleeper room when they didn't belong in it was when *I *went to *my* room but was in the *wrong car*. I walked in looked around and quickly realized it wasn't my room, backed up and left ASAP, totally embarrassed. :wub:


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## Michigan Mom (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm in agreement... although the risk of theft is small, why leave anything in plain view. Since the door can't be locked from the outside it could slide open when you're away. Either put valuables away where they can't be seen or take with you.


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## gswager (Apr 5, 2012)

Keep the door curtains closed because there is no way to look through the glass door to check if someone is there or not. And keep your items hidden such as under the pillow, in the 2nd bunk, or whatever.


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## jhjr (Apr 5, 2012)

I"ll echo what others have said - In about 30 or so overnight sleeper trips I've never witnessed any theft and the only time something went missing it was found. I just put things out of sight.

If you need something for your own peace of mind, you can buy a type of travel lock that uses a wire locking mechanism - usually with around 18 inches of wire. You can lock valuables in a carryon and then use the wire lock to connect the carryon to something in the roomette. It's not foolproof but it could at least deter someone. I also think there are some pricey backpacks for laptops that claim to be theft proof.


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## cirdan (Apr 5, 2012)

What the other said.

I also believe the attendants and other staff do keep an eye open and will notice if somebody enters the car who shouldn't be there.

I normally take cash, credit cards and camera with me when I'm elsewhere on the train. Either in my pockets or in a small bag.

As you could well see something amazing at any point it's useful to have the camera with you anyway, rather than by itself in the room.

Leaving the curtains closed helps as nobody can see whether the roomette is occupied.

I have on occasions (through my own stupidity) left valuables in plain sight but nothing was ever taken.

So I believe it is pretty safe.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 5, 2012)

I wish Amtrak would put some padlock loops on the door so as a responsible passenger I can choose to lock my door or not in order to protect my own possessions. Doesn't seem like it would be all that expensive to add a metal loop to each compartment. Amtrak doesn't need to supply the locks, that's for us to provide if we so choose, although it would certainly make sense for them to include a lock cutter somewhere in the car or on the train. The padlock system doesn't need to be impenetrable; it just needs to be enough of a pain to convince any potential thieves to move on to the next _unlocked_ compartment. Folks who don't think anything will ever be stolen are still free to leave everything open and unlocked if they so choose.

Everybody wins!


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## Medic981 (Dec 25, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I wish Amtrak would put some padlock loops on the door so as a responsible passenger I can choose to lock my door or not in order to protect my own possessions. Doesn't seem like it would be all that expensive to add a metal loop to each compartment. Amtrak doesn't need to supply the locks, that's for us to provide if we so choose, although it would certainly make sense for them to include a lock cutter somewhere in the car or on the train. The padlock system doesn't need to be impenetrable; it just needs to be enough of a pain to convince any potential thieves to move on to the next _unlocked_ compartment. Folks who don't think anything will ever be stolen are still free to leave everything open and unlocked if they so choose.
> 
> Everybody wins!


Then someone can lock an occupant in the compartment. Amtrak would need to keep a pair of bolt cutters to cut the lock for those who are trapped in the compartment or for those passengers how have lost their key.


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## willem (Dec 25, 2015)

Note that this thread is 3+ years old, and Devil's Advocate did say that "it would certainly make sense for them to include a lock cutter somewhere in the car or on the train."

The proposal is unlikely to be implemented unless it can be disabled when the room is occupied, to ensure that no one is locked in the room if there is an accident. On the other hand, an occupant could be in a room with the door locked on the inside following an accident, so maybe there isn't that much difference. First responders would be delayed in either case.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Dec 25, 2015)

Medic981 said:


> Then someone can lock an occupant in the compartment. Amtrak would need to keep a pair of bolt cutters to cut the lock for those who are trapped in the compartment or for those passengers how have lost their key.


Such reminds me of one trip, where, as the train stopped, the sliding door of the Viewliner roomette across the isle from us, slid/slammed shut rather forcefully. This was the station for the guy in that roomette, and he started to panic when he could not re-open his door. I got up, and being a frequent passenger, knew exactly how to squeeze the latch to re-open his door for him.


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## railiner (Dec 26, 2015)

This old thread is still interesting for anyone new to sleeper travel. Lots of good points here.

IMHO, the biggest reason that they don't offer externally lockable doors, is the cost and hassle of lost and/or stolen keys. There are high-tech solutions to this, however...

They could build new cars with built in electronic locks, that passenger's could program themselves with a four digit PIN number. These could be similar to the locks on cruise ship cabin safe's. In the event the passenger forgets their number, or if a passenger gets off and leaves their room locked, the train employees could be provided with the tool necessary to open said lock.

Another means to discourage theft (or any other crime) on board would be to install security camera's to cover the aisle's of each car. More and more buses are equipped with these, as well as transit cars.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

railiner said:


> This old thread is still interesting for anyone new to sleeper travel. Lots of good points here.
> 
> IMHO, the biggest reason that they don't offer externally lockable doors, is the cost and hassle of lost and/or stolen keys. There are high-tech solutions to this, however...
> 
> ...


Hotels and cruise ships already use various forms of keycard locks. The most common are magnetic strip cards, although I've stayed in hotels using contactless card. Authorized personnel could carry master keys that open any lock. Also - these systems are usually designed such that once a new set of keycards is programmed for a particular lock, the first time one of those new keycards is used, the lock system will no longer accept any previously programmed keycards. So when a keycard is lost, it's probably best to get new keycards ASAP and use them quickly to invalidate the lost one(s). They might also have an expiration programmed.

I suppose the most difficult thing would be whether or not an off the shelf system could be used. The most important thing would be a locking system that work with sliding doors.


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## valkyrie (Dec 26, 2015)

BCL said:


> Hotels and cruise ships already use various forms of keycard locks. The most common are magnetic strip cards, although I've stayed in hotels using contactless card. Authorized personnel could carry master keys that open any lock. Also - these systems are usually designed such that once a new set of keycards is programmed for a particular lock, the first time one of those new keycards is used, the lock system will no longer accept any previously programmed keycards. So when a keycard is lost, it's probably best to get new keycards ASAP and use them quickly to invalidate the lost one(s). They might also have an expiration programmed.
> 
> I suppose the most difficult thing would be whether or not an off the shelf system could be used. The most important thing would be a locking system that work with sliding doors.


Exactly, the technology already exists. The problem is it costs money to install and maintain such a system. Hell, the last sleeper I had, the flip over latch wouldn't even lock the door from the inside! I have no reason to believe AMTRAK is even considering such an upgrade and why would they, customers fill sleepers as they currently exist without keys.


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## Asher (Dec 26, 2015)

Pretty easy to put things out of sight. I don't worry about theft.


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## PVD (Dec 26, 2015)

If I attempt to provide security, I have to defend myself against claims that it wasn't adequate, or failed. If I don't promise it, it takes away quite a bit of the burden.


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## railiner (Dec 26, 2015)

PVD said:


> If I attempt to provide security, I have to defend myself against claims that it wasn't adequate, or failed. If I don't promise it, it takes away quite a bit of the burden.


Perhaps.....but then, even having a sign on a property reading: "Not Responsible for loss", etc.... doesn't always hold up in litigation...

it boils down to what a "reasonable person" would expect in the way of security when decided by a jury....

And no, I am not a lawyer, and I don't even "play one" on TV...


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## Phil S (Dec 26, 2015)

On #14 last week, the roomette door lock was missing a piece of the part that attaches to the fixed edge of the door. It sort of locked so I didn't pay much attention to it. Next morning when I awoke I discovered that the door had been open all night (curtains closed). I know some people like sleeping with the door open -- more fresh air, I think. For me, it felt a little weird. Most of my valuables were in a backpack shoved under seats - totally inaccessible w/o waking me. So that's not what I was worried about.

Anyone else had this happen?

Changing threads (hijacking? I hope not) I had a screwdriver along so when the IC system started blaring into my roomette - well, 2 screws hold the grill on, 6 screws attach the actual loudspeaker, and the two (+/- DC low voltage) leads just slip off the contacts with no trouble. Goes back together just fine, I doubt anyone will ever care, and the announcements from the hallway speakers were still perfectly audible.

Anybody see why we shouldn't do this? Safety issues?


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## caravanman (Dec 26, 2015)

If you can't see why dismantling part of the train for your own purposes is wrong, then what I say probably won't alter that.

Some idiot will read it and end up electrocuting themselves maybe, because they read all about it on A.U. ?

If you know what you are doing, then do it quietly, and return it to normal after... Don't advertise it !!!

As to door locking. My feeling is that if the urgent need arises, it is important to know if anyone is still in a room... You can't rely on finding a member of staff with a key in such circumstances. I have had my roomette door slide open at night due to vibration too, but never felt even slightly worried when on an Amtrak train, coach or roomette, (or lounge floor  )

Ed.


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## Phil S (Dec 26, 2015)

caravanman said:


> If you can't see why dismantling part of the train for your own purposes is wrong, then what I say probably won't alter that.
> 
> Some idiot will read it and end up electrocuting themselves maybe, because they read all about it on A.U. ?
> 
> ...


As for the speaker in the room, there have been several threads here with people discussing how annoying and unnecessary the in-room speakers are. Many superliner roomettes used to have a dial for sound level (that actually worked) but alas they seem to be going the way of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. And the wiring is all 12 V so no one is going to get electrocuted.

As to door locking, I'm missing what "knowing if anyone is still in a room" has to do with the door lock being broken and not staying locked. at night.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 26, 2015)

I have never had any concerns or problems with the door locks and would never even consider "hot wiring" the Speaker, as it is there for your safety. If an emergency happens and you are unable to clearly (hopefully) hear instructions, you could be in a lot of trouble FAST. True, we have to sometimes put up with a lot of unnecessary bluthering on it, but it can also save lives.


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## PVD (Dec 26, 2015)

Many of us have proposed that in any new car or upgrade, the speakers in the room should be able to be turned off, with an override for emergency announcements. Of course, the whining will commence immediately upon the first person missing a meal call. Tampering could get someone thrown off the train with zero recourse.


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## railiner (Dec 26, 2015)

While the speaker may be annoying, it is totally unacceptable to tamper with the equipment, even if you "know" what you are doing, IMHO....

And I agree with Caravanman...if you are going to do something like that anyway, keep it to yourself...that is not the sort of "tip" that should be shared on AU, or any public forum for that matter.

That said, the cruise ships have a solution to address the issues brought up here. They have a means to lower or mute the volume on the channel in the cabin that you can hear announcements on. However, in the event of an emergency on board, the cabin speakers will override that and broadcast at full volume for safety announcements.


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## caravanman (Dec 26, 2015)

My remark about "needing to know if the room is occupied" was in response to the locked door thread in general, rather than your specific "door malfunction."

Also, my remark about tampering with equipment was meant to be taken in a wider context... Once folk start undoing random screws, "as seen on A.U." it could lead to unforseen consequences. (Forseen circumstances, in my view.  )

Ed.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

PVD said:


> Many of us have proposed that in any new car or upgrade, the speakers in the room should be able to be turned off, with an override for emergency announcements. Of course, the whining will commence immediately upon the first person missing a meal call. Tampering could get someone thrown off the train with zero recourse.


There are of course technological solutions if there's any sort of upgrade. I can turn down the ringer/volume on my phone, but it doesn't bypass Amber Alerts nor a remote find feature.

However, isn't one issue going to be interoperability with older equipment? It could be a mess if a system doesn't work during the transition. When a replacement bridge or road is built, the ideal would probably be to tear down the existing one and build a new one in its place. However, people still want to use the existing one and money is spent on temporary structures and the replacement often has strange bends that seem odd when the previous structure is removed.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 26, 2015)

Plus train cars are very dynamic creatures, being subjected to constant vibration and shock. Therefore, be it door locks, latches, electronics or what have you those systems should ideally be ruggedized to Military Specs to withstand the wear they will experience. Not to mention that coming from rough pax.


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## PVD (Dec 26, 2015)

Interoperabilty with older systems is always a challenge. I've worked in some hospital buildings with multiple fire alarm systems from the latest digital systems to Flintstone stuff. Every new wing or major rehab got whatever was state of the art at the time it was done, it was always a challenge to have them all work together. Someone with a little more rail knowledge than I possess may be able to weigh in on the conductor counts and pinning in trainline cabling and couplers. We are experiencing what you said right here with the replacement of the Kosciusko Bridge. Build East span, put traffic on half a bridge, knock down existing, build West Span. Good luck for 6 more years.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

PVD said:


> Interoperabilty with older systems is always a challenge. I've worked in some hospital buildings with multiple fire alarm systems from the latest digital systems to Flintstone stuff. Every new wing or major rehab got whatever was state of the art at the time it was done, it was always a challenge to have them all work together. Someone with a little more rail knowledge than I possess may be able to weigh in on the conductor counts and pinning in trainline cabling and couplers. We are experiencing what you said right here with the replacement of the Kosciusko Bridge. Build East span, put traffic on half a bridge, knock down existing, build West Span. Good luck for 6 more years.


Electric braking on rail cars could be revolutionary, but then what happens with all the existing air brake systems?

We had that issue when the eastern span of the Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge was replaced. They handled it by first building a new toll plaza that would be more in line with the new span. Then there was a gentle bend to the new toll plaza from the existing road. A lot of money was spent on a temporary (and oddly shaped) connector from the existing bridge to the tunnel that would allow for construction of the west end of the new span. A lot of money and time can be saved on many construction projects if the whole thing can be shut down, but that's not typically practical. I've heard that quite a few road improvement projects get half their costs just from temporary pavement to allow use of the existing roads.

If Amtrak were to rework their audio systems, they would probably need to build in some redundant systems to work with the legacy system. In a way it would add to the cost and complexity, but is there any other choice other than only operating new equipment that works with the all new system? However, I could imagine benefits such as an intercom function. Perhaps even make it a wired Ethernet system that could be used for Internet access and point of sale. Maybe even secure backup communications if the crew radios are malfunctioning.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 26, 2015)

Regardless of the reasons it often amazes me how much random public addressing there is in a supposedly sleep-focused car. If it's after 8AM or before 10PM Amtrak just loves to use their address system as much as possible. Having a volume control in a sleeper compartment seems like a completely reasonable expectation to me and it's only because Amtrak began removing this functionality that we have any reason to discuss this at all. I have no idea which nanny minded individual or department decide to make this change but I hope they reverse it in the future.



caravanman said:


> Some idiot will read it and end up electrocuting themselves...


You say that like it's a _bad_ thing.



OlympianHiawatha said:


> I have never had any concerns or problems with the door locks and would never even consider "hot wiring" the Speaker, as it is there for your safety.


Wouldn't this be more like _cold_ wiring?



railiner said:


> However, in the event of an emergency on board, the cabin speakers will override that and broadcast at full volume for safety announcements.


I don't think anyone would have a problem with that, although I would further clarify Amtrak's warnings not to smoke on the train or walk without shoes is _not_ an emergency event.


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## boxcarsyix (Dec 26, 2015)

1 layer of duct tape over the speaker mutes, but does not silence the announcements. Just remove it when you reach your destination.


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## Sauve850 (Dec 26, 2015)

I never travel without duct tape.


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## Ryan (Dec 26, 2015)

Duct tape leaves a crappy reside.

Use gaff tape instead, no mess behind.

Not sure why anyone would think that breaking out a screwdriver and taking things apart is a reasonable or acceptable thing to do. Pretty sure there's nothing that's 12V in there either.


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## niemi24s (Dec 26, 2015)

I've never used gaff/gaffers tape but suspect the stuff made by 3M... http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/~/3M-Cloth-Gaffers-Tape-6910-Black-1-in-x-60-yd-12-0-mil-36-rolls-per-case-Bulk?N=5472497+4294865514&rt=rud ..._ought_ to be the best available based on my experience with other 3M adhesive products. The reviews of it on Amazon are very good.

Does anybody know if my suspicion is correct based on their first hand knowledge?


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> While I've never used any gaff/gaffer's tape, I suspect the stuff made by 3M... http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/~/3M-Cloth-Gaffers-Tape-6910-Black-1-in-x-60-yd-12-0-mil-36-rolls-per-case-Bulk?N=5472497+4294865514&rt=rud ...ought to be the best available - based on my experience with other 3M adhesive products. The reviews of it on Amazon are very good.
> 
> Does anybody know if my suspicion is correct based on first hand knowledge?


You can read all sorts of professional message boards. Look around long enough and I got the consensus that Nashua seemed to be the preference. However, I can't find any source for it outside of Australia and New Zealand. Looks like they've stopped distributing it in the US. This stuff seems to be well regarded:

http://www.protapes.com/products/pro-gaff/color/black

Spending upwards of $30 for a 2"x165' roll of tape seems kind of crazy to me though, but I suppose to a production company it's a tax write-off. I think I've seen this stuff at some places where I've worked to temporarily secure cables.

Nothing quite like trying to remove all that residue left behind by duct tape. It's not really all that great for anything that's not semi-permanent or a quick fix for something that will be replaced in short order. Lots of fun if the adhesive folds over on itself. But it's cheap. I used to go to baseball games where some people would fix signs to a railing using duct tape. It looked really nasty once the tape was removed.


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## Ryan (Dec 26, 2015)

I've bought this and am happy with it @ $11/roll:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVCG5P8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Betty has a roll as well, she may chime in with her experience.


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## railiner (Dec 27, 2015)

Ryan said:


> Not sure why anyone would think that breaking out a screwdriver and taking things apart is a reasonable or acceptable thing to do.


Perhaps Amtrak should use these.... 

http://www.brycefastener.com/


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## Asher (Dec 27, 2015)

This post started with the thought that a train may be a den for scoundrels and thieves waiting to rob some one blind and has evolved into a passenger must be McGuyver to make a room suitable for travel.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 27, 2015)

Ryan said:


> I've bought this and am happy with it @ $11/roll:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVCG5P8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
> 
> Betty has a roll as well, she may chime in with her experience.


Yes, I received a roll in the mail quite unexpectedly, Ryan.  I have not used it yet, though. The "problems" others speak of have not bothered me enough to take it out of my bag (I just take a straw or pen with some wrapped around it, not the whole roll).

I do agree though that it's better than duct tape since I do know duct tape leaves a nasty residue and that gaffers tape does not (I do a little local theater).


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## niemi24s (Dec 27, 2015)

Not to drag this out any longer, but in spite of the fact that the images appear identical (showing the same roll sizes) here... http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/?N=5002385+8711017&Ntt=gaffers+tape&LC=en_US&co=cc&gsaAction=scBR&rt=rs&type=cc ...when you click on each image you'll find that one tape is 1" wide and the other almost 2" wide - but they both have the same manufacturers item number of 6910! U-Line stocks both widths.

FWIW, a couple of SCAs have come to the rescue with what they called "duct tape" to fix various problems, but I don't know whether it was any special kind of tape like gaffers tape. I suspect it was standard duct tape simply because it's much less expensive than gaffers tape. Anyway, around the house I just use fuel oil or kerosene to remove tape residue. But for on the train (and before anybody gets their panties in a wad about taking kerosene on the train) I find WD-40 works just about as well. [Psst - - Don't tell anybody, but WD-40 is mostly fuel oil/kerosene types of hydrocarbons anyway!]


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## BCL (Dec 27, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> Not to drag this out any longer, but in spite of the fact that the images appear identical (showing the same roll sizes) here... http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/?N=5002385+8711017&Ntt=gaffers+tape&LC=en_US&co=cc&gsaAction=scBR&rt=rs&type=cc ...when you click on each image you'll find that one tape is 1" wide and the other almost 2" wide - but they both have the same manufacturers item number of 6910! U-Line stocks both widths.
> 
> FWIW, a couple of SCAs have come to the rescue with what they called "duct tape" to fix various problems, but I don't know whether it was any special kind of tape like gaffers tape. I suspect it was standard duct tape simply because it's much less expensive than gaffers tape. Anyway, around the house I just use fuel oil or kerosene to remove tape residue. But for on the train (and before anybody gets their panties in a wad about taking kerosene on the train) I find WD-40 works just about as well. [Psst - - Don't tell anybody, but WD-40 is mostly fuel oil/kerosene types of hydrocarbons anyway!]


There's probably some rule that says you can't bring that on a train. Besides, that stuff leaves an odor that takes a while to go away, as well as a penetrating oil base. If it goes into a crack somewhere it's not coming out. I use Zippo lighter fluid to remove tape residue. Don't smoke but I do have few of their lighters. I'm pretty sure that a WD-40 spray is considered a propellant, and the squeeze bottle is still a flammable liquid.

That being said, I don't think a single can of WD-40 is going to get anyone thrown off a train.


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## niemi24s (Dec 27, 2015)

BCL said:


> That being said, I don't think a single can of WD-40 is going to get anyone thrown off a train.a


No need bring a whole can, even one of those tiny pocket-sized ones. All that's really needed is just a small 2" X 4" or so piece of flannel cloth saturated with WD-40 and sealed in a plastic 35mm film can or small ziploc bag. Maybe only 1ml or less of the fluid. Comes in handy for other things too, like removing remnants of a piece of chewing gum some slob spit out and got stuck to that little wheel on your suitcase - or your shoe.

Just enough of the stuff for a small job or two - not the quantity needed to burn up a pile of stumps after clearing some land!


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## BCL (Dec 27, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, I don't think a single can of WD-40 is going to get anyone thrown off a train.a
> ...


My preference is for Goo Gone. For me, WD-40 leaves behind too much oil.


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## Ryan (Dec 27, 2015)

Or you can just use the right tape for the job and not worry about it.

Or even crazier, you can just deal with it.


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## PVD (Dec 27, 2015)

If you know anyone in who works in a hospital or urgent care, or is a sports trainer, they usually have "adhesive remover" squares packed in foil just like alcohol prep pads. I carried them when I coached ice hockey. There is so much TV and film shooting going on around here I can always get a partially used roll of gaffers tape from one of the lighting trucks, but the adhesive remover pads are a reasonable way for a passenger with regular tape to be courteous without too much hassle.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 27, 2015)

A problem I see with the removers is that people may forget to use it in their haste to get packed up and out of their rooms.


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm gonna drift this back toward topic a little bit. From my research on riding Russian Railways Train No. 1 and the Red Arrow the SCA issues you a card like hotel key that unlocks you're room for you. So it's a practical solution and now it would be a proven one. I don't know how much truth there is to it. But it is a real option. Honestly I would love to go to that system. And you're SCA hands them out and keeps track of them. So when you leave just return it to them. No need to change the lock


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## PVD (Dec 27, 2015)

Or control access to the sleepers at the end doors with only sleeper passengers and crew able to card or pin code in. But if a security system fails, do you now bad order the car because of the risk management issue? Failure to provide security that is now an expectation. I'm not sure that would be a good idea, since a system could very easily fail enroute when it would not be able to be fixed. Does anyone have any real numbers that indicate if there is a problem of any magnitude, or just anecdotes that we are chewing over as an exercise?


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 27, 2015)

I consider the safety of my personal possessions to be my own responsibility. I just want Amtrak to make that job a bit easier than having to drag everything with me everywhere I go. If history is any indication neither Amtrak nor AU are inclined to take claims of theft seriously, so it's not surprising to me that sleeper theft is seen as a perpetual non-issue. I've personally lost several items despite my best efforts to keep everything safe. Some of the missing items were valuable while others were not. Unfortunately the core of Amtrak's security process seems to be based almost entirely on the honor system and once something has gone missing it's probably never coming back again. Anyone willing to learn the ins and outs of train theft could probably have a field day under Amtrak's "sucks to be you" security protocol.


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## railiner (Dec 28, 2015)

Or.....

Amtrak consider's the "honor system" the most cost effective...

Reminds me of the airports nowadays....at one time when you retrieved your checked baggage from the 'carousel', you had to produce your matching claim checks to an attendant at the exit. On all my recent flights, you simply grabbed your bag, and exited. This results in people claiming wrong bags that usually are later returned, but can also result in stolen bags. I asked one of the airport personnel about this, and their reply was that the airlines found it more cost-effective to pay occasional fraudulent claims, and real claims, then to pay for the necessary staffing to check each tag. They further stated that the security camera's were a deterrent to fraud and theft, as well as their insurance data bases that would flag frequent claims...


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 28, 2015)

That reminds me of a fake product review I read on Amazon for uranium ore. I honestly don't see an end door code working. As take the meteor it operates three sleepers. Does each one have a code to get in. Then the 12 car has a lot of codes to remember.

Attached is the troll review


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## PVD (Dec 28, 2015)

I was figuring one code, first end door, or card key, but it may not be that worthwhile anyway. I am prepared to take the issue more seriously, as soon as someone can pry loose some numbers to show the actual magnitude of the issue. If it is anything other than rare and isolated, or is shown to be increasing in frequency by any appreciable margin, new approaches may need to be explored. The feeling of being violated after a theft or break in of any kind is often more serious than the loss itself, so even minor theft if it is occurring more than rarely can not be dismissed. On the other hand, it will be very tough to make a case to spend large amounts of money both initially and in ongoing maintenance if we are talking one I pad or camera a month. I know that isn't what I would want to hear as someone who has had a loss, but I believe that is how they think.


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## neroden (Dec 28, 2015)

It seems very uncommon to have an entire bag stolen out of a roomette. Probably this is a high-risk theft attempt, too easy for an employee to spot as "out of place" behavior.

Most of the reported thefts are people rifling through bags for small items. Lock your suitcases.


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## PVD (Dec 28, 2015)

What I have also heard while riding is the "someone took my bag and left theirs which looks exactly the same while leaving in a hurry because they weren't ready" from the downstairs rack in a SL sleeper. Not malicious, but sure can ruin a trip for both parties involved. Sure, we could carry a cable lock and thread it through the handles, but it's sort of sad we have to. After I had a car stolen, even though I received an extremely generous insurance settlement, leaving me no real economic loss, for about a year I used to wake up in the middle of the night and look out the window to see if the car was still there. The emotional aspect may be more important than the actual loss. Funny thing about getting up in the middle of the night - my car was stolen in broad daylight!


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 28, 2015)

neroden said:


> It seems very uncommon to have an entire bag stolen out of a roomette. Probably this is a high-risk theft attempt, too easy for an employee to spot as "out of place" behavior.


Is there any evidence that Amtrak actually tracks passenger thefts? Has anyone ever requested a FOIA tally of claimed thefts? I don't think we know quite enough to make any broad generalizations just get.


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## PVD (Dec 28, 2015)

They sort of have to track them if a police report is made, but I've never seen the type of reports publicly issued from Amtrak like the ones NYPD and MTA issue for NYC area transit systems. I think you make a fair statement about lack of data, it is similar to what I said in some previous posts.


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## andersone (Dec 29, 2015)

I have never had an issue on Amtrak. When we travel She Who Must Be Obeyed has a KYSS bag, which is a simple solution to a bag not wandering. It has a cable that slides out and locks around any stationary object Very ingenious and not very expensive. We primarily use it in hotel rooms to lock up the valuables while exploring. Peace of mind without a lot of hassle.

On of the principle reasons we no longer use the H Room is due to the fact folks barge in thinking it is a toilet or a shower (so much for reading is fundamental) so we are forced to latch the door at all times. Not my vision of the universe.


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## niemi24s (Dec 29, 2015)

andersone said:


> On[e] of the principle reasons we no longer use the H Room is due to the fact folks barge in thinking it is a toilet or a shower (so much for reading is fundamental) so we are forced to latch the door at all times.


Perhaps using tape (duct, gaffers, etc.) to affix something to the door like one of the following might deter the illiterate... http://www.clker.com/cliparts/0/0/3/9/11949848301163357016radioactive_sign_01.svg ...or... http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/501239539-no-entry-sign-vector-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GcrzeRDP2b1mdPMb0Fz1NiX1peHs8tT%2BKIZ2gRQ94MzNFtmcujxQHH3wnzWe99vd

However, I'm fully confident this idea will elicit a good many posts stating why such a dastardly idea is verboten because it's not permitted by the rules - even if gaffers tape were to be used.


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## GregL (Dec 31, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > I've bought this and am happy with it @ $11/roll:
> ...


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## Keith1951 (Jul 2, 2021)

Actually there is a way you can somewhat fake "lock" your door. Im sure everyone is familiar with the small chain locks that are on some doors in hotels and some homes. Where you can open the door and see and speak to whoever is on the other side while the chain is still locked. I used something similar to those. I always bring a small link of chain and hook one end on my luggage and the other end, I do a MacGyver and hook it on the door latch. Then I put the luggage on the opposite side of the way the door slides open. And when you exit you have to adjust the luggage so you can shut the door as close to closed as possible...then shut it completely. It wont stop someone from coming in if they really wanted in, but anyone who tried opening the door would feel the resistance and see the chain and more than likely stop and leave, not knowing if someone was in there or not. Its better than nothing at all. I started doing this after one trip to dinner and saw someone standing at our open door when we returned. He said he was in the wrong car and apologized. I didnt believe him.


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## cirdan (Jul 2, 2021)

Linda T said:


> What Railroad Bill said. :lol: The only time I ever experienced a person in a sleeper room when they didn't belong in it was when *I *went to *my* room but was in the *wrong car*. I walked in looked around and quickly realized it wasn't my room, backed up and left ASAP, totally embarrassed. :wub:



you too ?
Me too

so embarrassing


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## me_little_me (Jul 3, 2021)

cirdan said:


> you too ?
> Me too
> 
> so embarrassing


You the one that keith1951 saw at his room? Your picture makes you look suspicious.


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## WWW (Jul 3, 2021)

You could put one of those battery operated motion detector screeeching alarms in a place that needs to be frequented - JUST make sure
your car attendant doesn't have a heart attack in turning down your quarters for the evening.
And of course when you return to your quarters remember to disable the alarm first.
Electronics have a way of keeping crooks at bay - even a simple flashing blinking LED - not worth the risk - - -

Interesting side note - anyone here been a victim of on board Amtrak crime ?


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## Qapla (Jul 3, 2021)

everyone who has had to eat the Flex-Dining has been a victim of on board Amtrak crime !!!!


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## me_little_me (Jul 4, 2021)

Qapla said:


> everyone who has had to eat the Flex-Dining has been a victim of on board Amtrak crime !!!!


Post of the month Award winner?


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## Oreius (Jul 4, 2021)

In most cases, a Conductor must scan your ticket before you enter the sleepers from the diner or lounge. I always have my e-ticket on my phone because I’ve been asked a couple times. Coach passengers are forbidden from entering the sleepers—except in exorbitant circumstances..


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## PVD (Jul 4, 2021)

Harris burh is end of the line for the Keystones, those run with ACS-64 and AM-1 cars. Having them there makes sense. And with the reduced schedules on both the NEC and Keystones, spares should not be an issue.


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## joelkfla (Jul 4, 2021)

Oreius said:


> In most cases, a Conductor must scan your ticket before you enter the sleepers from the diner or lounge. I always have my e-ticket on my phone because I’ve been asked a couple times. Coach passengers are forbidden from entering the sleepers—except in exorbitant circumstances..


I've only done a half dozen or so sleeper trips, but I've never encountered that. I would imagine that if you happen to run into a SCA who doesn't recognize you that you might be challenged, but I've never seen anyone guarding the door to the sleeper.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 4, 2021)

Oreius said:


> In most cases, a Conductor must scan your ticket before you enter the sleepers from the diner or lounge. I always have my e-ticket on my phone because I’ve been asked a couple times. Coach passengers are forbidden from entering the sleepers—except in exorbitant circumstances..


I’ve never been asked for my ticket once the original scan has been made. I have freely moved about the train without issue (I do carry my ticket with me though)


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## Cal (Jul 4, 2021)

Oreius said:


> In most cases, a Conductor must scan your ticket before you enter the sleepers from the diner or lounge. I always have my e-ticket on my phone because I’ve been asked a couple times. Coach passengers are forbidden from entering the sleepers—except in exorbitant circumstances..


I've never seen this happen.


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## WWW (Jul 4, 2021)

My understanding is that in a Roomette or Bedroom you have the run of the train -
In coach stick to those coach cars - except passing thru to a cafe diner concession car.
Maybe old school etiquette !


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## Lonestar648 (Jul 4, 2021)

In my almost 40 years of traveling on Amtrak, I have never heard of a theft in the Sleepers. The attendants and Conductors seems to know who belongs where so have been on top of people who roam. I always use “out of site out of mind” SOP. I feel my things are very safe on Amtrak in the sleeper, and coach as well.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 6, 2021)

Crooks generally stick to stuff and venues they know. It is very unlikely that a crook would buy a train ticket and wander in the sleeper section just to grab a random suitcase. Which if one of mine, he would be very disappointed. For that matter, the only coach theft I ever saw turned out to be a mistaken bag.


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## Will Ray (Jul 7, 2021)

I been on over 50 trips on Amtrak, and the only theft I remember was a fellow who left his camera on his coach seat. Not smart.


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## Will Ray (Jul 7, 2021)

I've...


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## me_little_me (Jul 7, 2021)

Will Ray said:


> I've...


That is so sad. My condolences.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 7, 2021)

Your experience was really unusual. Usually Amtrak is very easy to deal with, has reasonable prices, and the food in the dining car is without exception wonderful. 

I hope you give Amtrak another chance.

p.s. I've also had problems with accidental postings and being unable to erase a post that is still in the edit box. Once posted, you can hit the edit button to correct. Welcome to AU!


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## Railspike (Jul 8, 2021)

Always been amazed at how quickly the staff remembers which passengers are in the sleepers on any given trip. I was once sitting in the PPC on the CS when a young man comes from the diner, through the PPC, and heads to the sleeper section.
The PPC LSA checked him out as he passed the bar and then picked up the IC. Within a minute or two the Conductor and AC headed to the sleepers. In short order, they came back through the PPC, accompanied by the SCA. with the young man headed back to the coach section. Never knew the outcome.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

In the early days, I occasionally would offer to show our room to nice people I met in the dining car. I got away with it once or twice, but after having an alert attendant stop me several times, I stopped trying. I just had to suggest they look at the nice pictures on the web page.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 8, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> In the early days, I occasionally would offer to show our room to nice people I met in the dining car. I got away with it once or twice, but after having an alert attendant stop me several times, I stopped trying. I just had to suggest they look at the nice pictures on the web page.
> 
> View attachment 23512


If you ask your SCA, they'll usually let you show someone your room, ( especially in the daytime)and even some Conductors in the pre-COVID days,would let interested Coach Passengers tour the Sleeping Car if they expressed an interest in Upgrading.


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## Cal (Jul 8, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> If you ask your SCA, they'll usually let you show someone your room, ( especially in the daytime)and even some Conductors in the pre-COVID days,would let interested Coach Passengers tour the Sleeping Car if they expressed an interest in Upgrading.


I saw a video on Youtube of an SCA (I think anyway) showing a young kid (7-9?) in coach a tour of the entire sleeping car and during COVID. This was on the Starlight, it was when there was a service disruption which caused it stop at Sacramento, I think due to snow conditions.


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## cassie225 (Jul 8, 2021)

I do remember once on the Crescent, I was playing cards in the diner or whatever car with other passengers, they got kinda rowdy and I was going back to my sleeper and was stopped by Amtrak employee who said, you can’t go back there because you don’t belong back there, my SCA saw me, he was awesome, Mr Rob, and he informed that employee that I belonged there, that employee got really nice then. I loved Mr Rob, he was the best and just there when needed like he just knew. Awesome


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