# my train trip



## Wally (Dec 24, 2015)

I got a ticket for me and my wife for amtrak. We want to go from Denver, Colorado to Baltimore, Maryland. It's going to take 3 days, and it's going to cost a huge amount of money, but we figured it would be worth it to do it one time only. If we like it maybe we'll try again, but we've heard so many horror stories, we are scared to death. One thing I noticed that doesn't make sense is there is a 3 hour layover where you have to go to DC first. There must be more trains because you can drive from DC to Baltimore in no time, and they make us wait in DC for 3 hours to take a 40 minute train trip.


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## CCC1007 (Dec 24, 2015)

The reason for the delay is so that if your inbound train is delayed by up to two and three quarters hours late you can still catch the train you're scheduled to connect to.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 24, 2015)

Wally said:


> I got a ticket for me and my wife for amtrak. We want to go from Denver, Colorado to Baltimore, Maryland. It's going to take 3 days, and it's going to cost a huge amount of money, but we figured it would be worth it to do it one time only. If we like it maybe we'll try again, but we've heard so many horror stories, we are scared to death. One thing I noticed that doesn't make sense is there is a 3 hour layover where you have to go to DC first. There must be more trains because you can drive from DC to Baltimore in no time, and they make us wait in DC for 3 hours to take a 40 minute train trip.


Just like everything, you hear more horror stories than not because people are more likely to complain about things than post things that went as expected or even went better than expected. I've never had anything happen on the train that I considered a ranking of a horror story.

As stated above, the long layover is to allow for a late train. If you arrive on time, you could try to get on an earlier train, but you'll probably have to pay the difference in price between the two regionals (the trains that run between Washington and Baltimore) because the price is usually higher at the last minute. There are things to do at Washington Union Station that can occupy you during the layover (shops & restaurants).

Are you traveling in a sleeper or coach?


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## willem (Dec 24, 2015)

"Horror story" means different things to different people. I consider that I have two, but I continue to ride Amtrak, so maybe someone could argue that I have two bad experiences rather than horror stories.

Another option for getting from Washington to Baltimore is MARC, which is often cheaper than Amtrak, and might even be cheaper than just the upcharge to take an earlier Amtrak train.


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## the_traveler (Dec 24, 2015)

As AmtrakBlue said, more people will tell you about the bad than the good with trains. How many times have you heard "We got on the train at 9:52 am (the scheduled time) and arrived at 10:37 pm (the scheduled time) and had a great time on the train!" But I'm sure you have heard many stories saying "Our train did not arrive until 6 hours after the scheduled time, and it was 13 hours late when it finally arrived! And to top it off, they ran out of food. I'm never going to ride the train again!"

It's the same with planes, buses, ships and even cars! I'm sure you have heard stories about the crowds at the airport or Security, the bad people that ride the buses, the cruises where the ship got stuck or the big traffic jam on the highway. Seldom do you see a story where everything on the trip went right.


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## BCL (Dec 24, 2015)

Which specific route? I looked it up, and on weekdays the published connections are on 134 (3:30 PM) and 178 (4:05 PM). On weekends it's 168 (3:25 PM) and 146 (4:25 PM).

So there should have been the option to book for a scheduled 2.5 hour transfer time.

Someone selected these times specifically so they would have padding built in. If a "published route" (one that the reservation system automatically displays) is late for a connection, Amtrak is required to make it right for you by finding an alternate means (another train, taxi, bus, van) to get you there, or worst case even put you up in a hotel room. Granted it should be easy for Amtrak to find alternate service should the Capitol Limited arrive late, since there are plenty of trains from DC to Baltimore.

You could book the DC to Baltimore trip separately or multi-city by forcing a sooner Northeast Regional train. However, you'd lose your reservation the train to DC is late, you missed your next leg, and you failed to cancel in time. The exception would be for booking a flexible fare at a premium price. Train 94 (2:02 PM) would make a lot of sense though.

There are options. Megabus stops at Washington Union Station, but they're very unforgiving if you miss getting on the bus.


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## me_little_me (Dec 24, 2015)

Wally,

Unless you have fixed travel dates and/or are traveling soon, you will find fares vary a lot.

First, look at alternative travel like the aforementioned MARC connection. Look at breaking up your trip. e.g. Going from Den -->Chi then staying overnight there might mean you can catch the CHI-->WAS train a day later when fares might be dramatically lower - low enough to pay for meals and hotel in CHI with money left over so you get a"free" overnight in CHI.

Second search for better (i.e. cheaper) travel days by going to http://amsnag.net/and using your desired cities, check a range of dates. Note that unlike Amtrak, that site breaks out the rail portion from the sleeper portion and does NOT include discounts like AAA or Senior. But it does give you a much better picture of when to travel. Again, check out trip breakup costs. Amsnag site was written by a member here to allow you to easily search multiple days (up to 30). Note how prices change.

Assuming you pay a high price for your tickets, keep checking back on Amtrak's site (or on Amsnag) for price drops. Unlike the airlines, you can get travel credit or refund of price difference if prices drop and you call Amtrak. This is especially true if you buy way in advance as, like airlines' first class tickets, prices start high then drop as the day approaches then increase as the latecomers buy.

Edit: Also, if you are taking a BR, check out taking two roomettes as an alternative. Best to do that by phone in the late evening when they are not busy) and ask for rooms across the hall from each other. I've seen 2 roomettes for less than half the cost of 1 BR.


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## BCL (Dec 24, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> Edit: Also, if you are taking a BR, check out taking two roomettes as an alternative. Best to do that by phone in the late evening when they are not busy) and ask for rooms across the hall from each other. I've seen 2 roomettes for less than half the cost of 1 BR.


I didn't see any mention of a bedroom or even that they're booking a sleeper. In any case, why would they need two roomettes for two? I could imagine a Superliner bedroom for more space, but why two roomettes for two people?

However, I played around with the booking, and it look like if one leaves Denver on a Sat/Sun then the only connection published in DC is the 168 on a Mon/Tue. If one starts in Denver Mon-Fri then there are always two choices, although the choices are different for a weekend arrival in DC. It doesn't seem to make much sense does it?


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 24, 2015)

BCL said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: Also, if you are taking a BR, check out taking two roomettes as an alternative. Best to do that by phone in the late evening when they are not busy) and ask for rooms across the hall from each other. I've seen 2 roomettes for less than half the cost of 1 BR.
> ...


I don't think they run as many regionals on the weekend as they do on weekdays, so that's probably why.


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## BCL (Dec 24, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > me_little_me said:
> ...


That's probably not it. If you book to start a DEN-BAL trip in Denver on a weekend day, the arrival in DC will be on a weekday.

It's always CZ from DEN-CHI and then CL from CHI-WAS. However, if the start date is Sat/Sun then there's only 178 as an option departing 4:05 PM.

For a Mon/Wed/Fri there 8063 to RAT, Southwest Chief to CHI, and the Cardinal to BAL. There's also a CZ to Cardinal combination (with or without the NER), plus the standard CZ-CL-NER with two NER options.

For Tue/Thu it's the standard CZ-CL-NER with two NER options.

Of course the Cardinal is only three times a week. I can't figure out why starting this trip on a weekend day makes a difference.

I tried something different (CHI-BAL). For Thu-Sat start it gives two options for a CL to NER transfer. The rest of the week there's only one choice.


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## me_little_me (Dec 26, 2015)

BCL said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: Also, if you are taking a BR, check out taking two roomettes as an alternative. Best to do that by phone in the late evening when they are not busy) and ask for rooms across the hall from each other. I've seen 2 roomettes for less than half the cost of 1 BR.
> ...


"and it's going to cost a huge amount of money" is what they said which prompted my "if you are taking a BR". It's Christmas. Be nice.

Because of our age and physical condition, we almost always go with a bedroom rather than a roomette but when BRs are really high, we have taken two roomettes especially if they are together cheaper than a bedroom. Two lower bunks does make it easier than needing an ambulance when falling down the stairs.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

me_little_me said:


> "and it's going to cost a huge amount of money" is what they said which prompted my "if you are taking a BR". It's Christmas. Be nice.
> Because of our age and physical condition, we almost always go with a bedroom rather than a roomette but when BRs are really high, we have taken two roomettes especially if they are together cheaper than a bedroom. Two lower bunks does make it easier than needing an ambulance when falling down the stairs.


A "huge amount of money" can mean something different for different people. The OP wasn't specific, and I was wondering why two roomettes would be preferable.

In any case, the topic seemed to be about the built-in connection requiring a scheduled 3 hour transfer time. Obviously the connections for published routes are manually selected to some degree and may not make that much sense. Why there are two connection options vs one being dependent on the starting day would seem to point to some sort of human input. There are a lot of NER trains, even on weekends. I suppose the options are limited to avoid the clutter of too many choices. Also, I'm guessing not every passenger is well versed on "published routes" and "guaranteed connections". Obviously Amtrak throws in schedule padding to reduce the chances of having to deal with rebooking. They probably arent too worried about paying for a cab, van service, or hotel. However, don't they have to send in a representative to handle all the rebookings?

The topic was discussed somewhat on this thread:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/58895-lateearly-cl-and-connecting-to-regionals/


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 26, 2015)

Yeah, it could be that the other trains were not entered into the system. I had a problem with booking a connection from a regional to the LSL in 2014 because a lot, if not all, regionals have different numbers on the weekends. I contacted AGR Insider (I was booking via AGR) and told him that NER xxx needed to be inputted as the connecting train to the LSL for Sundays (to correspond with the weekday NER xxx connecting train. He was able to get this taken care of and I was than able to book my train.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 26, 2015)

Looking at a "paper" schedules (PDF online):

M-F - 3:02 - #148

M-F - 4:02 - #178

Th-F - 3:30 - #134

Sat - 3:25 - #168

Sun - 3:25 - #132


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Looking at a "paper" schedules (PDF online):
> 
> M-F - 3:02 - #148
> 
> ...


Yup. However, I could see that they don't particular want to enter five different options (from maybe 3 PM to around 6 PM) since it would make things confusing for the first time Amtrak passenger. While they could offer the 2-ish NER, that's not going to be enough padding for many late trains. However, I'm wondering why an Acela isn't an option, especially for someone booking a "premium" ticket.


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## PaulM (Dec 26, 2015)

A couple of nit picks.

The trip is a couple of hours less than two days, not three.

In hundreds of long distance trips over many years, I've never experienced a horror story, only 3 missed connections, and only one of those that I could even call a inconvenience.

That being said, there is no reason for Amtrak not to honor the original ticket on an earlier regional if space is available. Why penalize the customer because of a potentially delayed train.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

PaulM said:


> A couple of nit picks.
> 
> The trip is a couple of hours less than two days, not three.
> 
> ...


Apparently rules are rules. It would be easy if it were a connection to an unreserved train. For whatever reason, the only official connections at WAS for the OP's trip have 2-3 hours padding, and the only exceptions made are going to be if the CL comes in too late.

That being said, don't the conductors have wide latitude to make exceptions? I've failed to get off at my stop before. Once I was allowed to continue on to where I could connect with public transportation. Another time I got a note (for the next conductor) that I missed my stop and that I needed a ride back. I even got on a reserved train that wasn't the same route as the one I messed up.

It might be possible to take the first available NER from WAS-BAL. Since it's the origin point, couldn't the OP just get on early and explain it to a conductor? The worst that could happen is being told it's not possible or maybe getting put off at the next station. I suppose a ticket might not be pulled, but is it a big deal if it's the last segment (not a round trip).


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 26, 2015)

Honestly probably ending the amtrak leg in Washington would be the cheapest bet and fastest bet. Then taking a MARC commuter train to Baltimore. And they offer two routes so depending on where you're staying it might be more convenient as well.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 26, 2015)

Seaboard92 said:


> Honestly probably ending the amtrak leg in Washington would be the cheapest bet and fastest bet. Then taking a MARC commuter train to Baltimore. And they offer two routes so depending on where you're staying it might be more convenient as well.


Though wouldn't the amount of luggage & time of day play a factor on using MARC?


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

Seaboard92 said:


> Honestly probably ending the amtrak leg in Washington would be the cheapest bet and fastest bet. Then taking a MARC commuter train to Baltimore. And they offer two routes so depending on where you're staying it might be more convenient as well.


How are they for transporting luggage? Still $8 seems to be a good deal.


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## jebr (Dec 26, 2015)

BCL said:


> Seaboard92 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly probably ending the amtrak leg in Washington would be the cheapest bet and fastest bet. Then taking a MARC commuter train to Baltimore. And they offer two routes so depending on where you're staying it might be more convenient as well.
> ...


Okay, not great. There's may be room for a bit of luggage on off-peak hours, but a bunch of luggage would be difficult.


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## BCL (Dec 26, 2015)

jebr said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Seaboard92 said:
> ...


I remember taking LIRR from Jamaica Station to Penn Station. They had these racks with a massive 2-1/2' between the rack and the roof. They supposedly have some cars with side racks, but we didn't need them. Sure beats the commuter rail around here. I've seen passengers on Caltrain going to San Francisco Airport with check-in sized luggage, and they basically stayed in the vestibule. Forget about it if it's a Bombardier Bilevel. Then there's the Nippon-Sharyos. They have these good sized center racks upstairs, but that would require hauling them up narrow stairs and narrow balcony aisles.







I read they have bike areas on some MARC trains. Would it be possible to use that area for luggage if it's not too crowded?


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## Seaboard92 (Dec 27, 2015)

Chances are that a mid day MARC train wouldn't be that bad. I took a mid day train awhile back and it was half empty in the two open cars. Three closed off.


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 27, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Just like everything, you hear more horror stories than not because people are more likely to complain about things than post things that went as expected or even went better than expected.


I happen to be one of those who complains about Amtrak far more often than I praise them, but I do not complain about every passenger rail operator. Nor do I complain about every airline or hotel operator. Some services providers are simply better than others. I rarely complained about Amtrak until I began traveling abroad. Once I saw how much passenger rail had evolved elsewhere it became harder and harder to give Amtrak a pass. It was amazing to see what a growing number of other countries had managed to accomplish in the passenger rail sector while our own passenger rail services continued to vacillate between stagnation and regression.

Out here on the Western LD network Amtrak's biggest news in decades is that they're replacing 1950's era baggage cars with 1980's era baggage cars. In the 1980's we called 1950's designs "heritage" cars, so shouldn't we be calling 1980's designs "heritage" cars in the 2010's? If so why on earth are we building brand new heritage cars?

I haven't had any genuine horror stories on Amtrak myself, but I've read about some adverse trips that sound like legitimate horror stories to me. I've also run into staff who were eager to ignore requests and avoid even the most basic of responsibilities. If I wasn't familiar with Amtrak's minimum expectations and workarounds or needed additional help due to personal limitations I can see how relatively minor problems could eventually snowball into a disaster by the end of a long trip.



the_traveler said:


> Seldom do you see a story where everything on the trip went right.


Here on AU we are repeatedly regaled with tales of dozens or even hundreds of perfectly fine trips with few if any problems.

Consider Exhibit A from PaulM...



PaulM said:


> In hundreds of long distance trips over many years, I've never experienced a horror story, only 3 missed connections, and only one of those that I could even call a inconvenience.


I've read several similarly lopsided claims here on AU. I always wonder how this would go over if someone claimed that out of dozens or hundreds of long distance trips on Amtrak they'd never once had a great one, only 3 okay ones, and only a single trip they could even call good. Would the Amtrak apologists take such a claim seriously or would they simply write it off as an impossible to please malcontent? Is there a reason why the inverse should be taken any more seriously?


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## Ryan (Dec 27, 2015)

I should really take a picture of the luggage storage areas on the MARC, as often as the question comes up.

I've traveled solo during rush hour with a single large suitcase and a backpack with no issues. More than that would get to be a pain.

No Bike Car during the week, but on the weekend provides a ton of space.

The first N/B departure after the Cap arrives is around 2:10-2:15. Usually pretty deserted. Next train is the ~3:25, that one can get a bit more crowded.


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## caravanman (Dec 27, 2015)

Where is Wally? We need more input from Wally !

Ed.


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## JayPea (Dec 27, 2015)

I would just as easily believe someone whose experience with Amtrak has been as negative as DA's hypothetical case as I do Paul's. The only person who can judge whether a trip is good or bad is the person taking the trip and what may be a good trip to someone may have been a lousy one to someone else.


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## MotherMary (Dec 28, 2015)

I would agree 100% that it has a lot to do with the person taking the trip whether it was a good trip or bad one. I took a round trip with about 12 assorted aunts/cousins & their adult children. We went from Mpls to Portland & back. On the return there were quite a few problems (due to frozen brake lines etc.) causing a delay on the return of 8 hours. They were all in coach complaining with everyone else about the delay. I was snug as a bug in my roomette reading and seeing the sights that we would normally go through in the dark.

I have taken numerous train trips and have enjoyed everyone.

Our vacation starts the moment we get on the train. We get on prepared and ready to relax. Many people are so anxious about getting there it really seems they don't understand the train is part of travelling fun. I also see many people expect too much from the attendants to make their trip complete. They complain about things Amtrak has no control over. ( weather, accidents etc.) Get on the train prepared and ready to relax and you will have a great time! You make it what it is!


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## BCL (Dec 28, 2015)

MotherMary said:


> I would agree 100% that it has a lot to do with the person taking the trip whether it was a good trip or bad one. I took a round trip with about 12 assorted aunts/cousins & their adult children. We went from Mpls to Portland & back. On the return there were quite a few problems (due to frozen brake lines etc.) causing a delay on the return of 8 hours. They were all in coach complaining with everyone else about the delay. I was snug as a bug in my roomette reading and seeing the sights that we would normally go through in the dark.
> 
> I have taken numerous train trips and have enjoyed everyone.
> 
> Our vacation starts the moment we get on the train. We get on prepared and ready to relax. Many people are so anxious about getting there it really seems they don't understand the train is part of travelling fun. I also see many people expect too much from the attendants to make their trip complete. They complain about things Amtrak has no control over. ( weather, accidents etc.) Get on the train prepared and ready to relax and you will have a great time! You make it what it is!


There are things that Amtrak can control to some degree, but it would require anticipation of demand. I took the Coast Starlight from Seattle last July. I went for a burger in the cafe at about 6PM, and the cafe attendant said they were already completely out of breakfast items. They weren't restocking until arriving at Oakland in the morning. I had breakfast in the dining car.


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## willem (Dec 28, 2015)

> They complain about things Amtrak has no control over. ( weather, accidents etc.) Get on the train prepared and ready to relax and you will have a great time! You make it what it is!


To some extent, yes. On the other hand, Amtrak doesn't do itself any favors. A recent Coast Starlight rolled southbound into Sacramento. Twenty minutes later, Amtrak employees told everyone bound for the Sunset Limited to get off the train, board a bus for Stockton, then a train for Bakersfield, then a bus for Los Angeles. The conductor on the San Joaquin had no idea he would have extra passengers. The station manager at Los Angeles had no idea she would have Coast Starlight passengers arriving on the bus. Disseminating that knowledge would have been completely within Amtrak's control, and it should have happened.

It was worse, but you get the gist.


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