# Border Patrol Checking by Border



## NesSqueegee (Jul 6, 2021)

Hello does immigration check trains because my friend is riding with me and is scared of being deported we are traveling to from texas to california and i'm just wondering if they're going to check for his status or if he'll be in trouble


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## RalphCT (Jul 6, 2021)

Don't know about the southern routes. But Border patrol officers have boarded the Empire Builder at Havre Montana in the past.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 6, 2021)

I’ve seen border patrol on several Amtrak trains. I shouldn’t be woken up and asked if I’m an American citizen when traveling in my own country but yet I have multiple times. :-/


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## MARC Rider (Jul 6, 2021)

As far as I know, there are no routine checks, but the Border Patrol might randomly come through the train and ask you what your nationality is. 

There are also internal checkpoints when you drive. There are at least 2 on US 90 in Texas west of San Antonio, and there's one on I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles. I'm sure there are more on other roads sort of near the border. I also had to endure a temporary checkpoint on I-91 outside of White River Junction, Vermont. Again, they ask for your nationality, and I guess if you don't say "U.S." they want to see some documentation. The ones in Texas also had drug-sniffing dogs walk around your car.

Frankly, I think it's a waste of effort. Aside from the offensiveness of having to justify your presence to law enforcement without any particular reason on their part, the accounts I've read about these is that they mostly sweep up people who have relatively minor, non immigration related violations of various sources. The Border Patrol should really focus their resources on their mission, not serve as an extra arm for local law enforcement. It's a waste of tax dollars, and it clutter up our criminal justice system with low-level violators.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 6, 2021)

I've encountered them in El Paso on the Sunset Limited; seen them (unsure of agency) with their dogs on the camera at Tucson. 
Depending on which agency they actually represent, drugs may be more problematic.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 6, 2021)

NesSqueegee said:


> Hello does immigration check trains because my friend is riding with me and is scared of being deported we are traveling to from texas to california and i'm just wondering if they're going to check for his status or if he'll be in trouble


West Texas and Arizona tend to have the most Border Patrol Agents.

El Paso generallybto has Agents around the Station ( that's the Closest the Train comes to Mexico since the Border Fence is right next to the tracks), but I've not seen any board the Sunset Ltd during my many trips on this Route.

Your friend might not want to get off the Train during the El Paso and Tucson stops.


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## jis (Jul 6, 2021)

After a close call or two, I acquired a Passport Card and carry it in my wallet at all times. However, I have never had to actually use it on a train. It is used mostly at airports with TSA. I have used it to travel by train to Canada and back though. Works very well, and I don't get asked inane questions about my travels to Israel or Muscat and Oman.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 6, 2021)

I've seen it once or twice, but it isn't routine. Your friend isn't at any more risk than at many job sites. Sadly, he'll always have to look over his shoulder whereever he goes.

And by the way, welcome to AU, NesSqueegee. Hope you have a great trip!


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 6, 2021)

I have been in the dining car at Alpine, TX, when the Border Patrol got on the train and came through asking everyone their citizenship. The woman across from me calmly stated she was a Mexican citizen, and had her Green Card and passport ready (she was married to the American citizen next to her, whose Spanish teacher she had been in Mexico). The agents were courteous to everyone in the car. I did not see them question anyone's answers or documents.

I have also seen Border Patrol come down the aisle of the sleeper car with sniffing dogs at Buffalo, and saw them take a non-citizen off the train at Wolf Point. They were always courteous, but they did their job thoroughly. If a roomette was closed and locked, they insisted on a response, same with restrooms.

All my experiences were prior to January 2017.


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## Cal (Jul 6, 2021)

FrensicPic said:


> I've encountered them in El Paso on the Sunset Limited; seen them (unsure of agency) with their dogs on the camera at Tucson.
> Depending on which agency they actually represent, drugs may be more problematic.


Ditto


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## neroden (Jul 6, 2021)

Amtrak kicked them off the trains for a couple of weeks when they were harassing passengers in Buffalo and delaying trains a few years back. They let Border Patrol back on, but Border Patrol is generally behaving better now -- they've been ordered not to delay trains, so Border Patrol has to be off the train before departure time or they're getting an unpaid trip and a fine for not buying a ticket. This generally keeps them off the trains at the quick station stops, though they may be on the platform. 

Reports before the temporary kicking-off were that they were racially profiling and targeting people who didn't speak English or had a heavy non-US accent -- for most people they'd just ask "Nationality?" and accept it if the person said "US" in a US accent. Gross and stupid waste of taxpayer money, IMO.


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## PVD (Jul 6, 2021)

At least Buffalo is near a border. They have gotten on in other places pretty far from the border, pushing their 100 mile limit to the edge... Away from the border, they just go on fishing expeditions to try and justify having money and manpower doing nothing related to their actual function.


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## jis (Jul 6, 2021)

PVD said:


> At least Buffalo is near a border. They have gotten on in other places pretty far from the border, pushing their 100 mile limit to the edge... Away from the border, they just go on fishing expeditions to try and justify having money and manpower doing nothing related to their actual function.


The fact that ICE and Border Patrol are some of the most corrupt organizations of the US government does not help much either.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 6, 2021)

neroden said:


> Amtrak kicked them off the trains for a couple of weeks when they were harassing passengers in Buffalo and delaying trains a few years back. They let Border Patrol back on, but Border Patrol is generally behaving better now -- they've been ordered not to delay trains, so Border Patrol has to be off the train before departure time or they're getting an unpaid trip and a fine for not buying a ticket. This generally keeps them off the trains at the quick station stops, though they may be on the platform.
> 
> Reports before the temporary kicking-off were that they were racially profiling and targeting people who didn't speak English or had a heavy non-US accent -- for most people they'd just ask "Nationality?" and accept it if the person said "US" in a US accent. Gross and stupid waste of taxpayer money, IMO.


Does this mean people from Boston and New York were arrested?


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## MARC Rider (Jul 6, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Does this people from Boston and New York were arrested?


Fortunately Baltimore is more than 100 miles from the seacoast. I'd like to see them set up an internal checkpoint on the Long Island Expressway (which is within 100 miles of the coast), though. We'll see how well that would go over.


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## Willbridge (Jul 7, 2021)

I've been awoken in Grand Forks on Train 7 and asked if I was a U.S. citizen. Greyhound has recently reduced their cooperation with border officers after they took a professional comedian off a bus at Spokane. He missed his next performance date in Portland but got lots of material for his routine. He was legal, but with the reductions in bus service he had a long wait.


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## joelkfla (Jul 7, 2021)

oregon pioneer said:


> I have also seen Border Patrol come down the aisle of the sleeper car with sniffing dogs at Buffalo





neroden said:


> Amtrak kicked them off the trains for a couple of weeks when they were harassing passengers in Buffalo and delaying trains a few years back.



Are Canadians rafting across the Niagara River to sneak into the U.S.?

What do you call a coyote in French?


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## Everydaymatters (Jul 7, 2021)

On one train, I was in the cafe car and everyone in that car was told to return to their seats. The Border Patrol came on and we all had to show our ID's. I just can't remember which train that was.


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## hlcteacher (Jul 7, 2021)

i have seen them board the southwest chief, (back in the day-the desert wind) and greyhound.


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## PVD (Jul 7, 2021)

At a check on a train, they would not be able to ask for ID without reasonable suspicion except for the fact that Amtrak permits it.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> At a check on a train, they would not be able to ask for ID without reasonable suspicion except for the fact that Amtrak permits it.



They will just claim they have reasonable suspicion. You can’t really argue with them.


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## jis (Jul 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> At a check on a train, they would not be able to ask for ID without reasonable suspicion except for the fact that Amtrak permits it.





crescent-zephyr said:


> They will just claim they have reasonable suspicion. You can’t really argue with them.


Exactly!

Usually because it is more important for me to not disrupt my itinerary I would tend to show them my Id and carry on instead of arguing the point, as I think many others would too.


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## PVD (Jul 7, 2021)

That is precisely what they rely on. Same thing they get away with about searches. You do not have to consent, and refusal to consent does not constitute reasonable suspicion. They know they will lose in court, they don't care, they count on most people not wanting their trips interrupted. Once in a while it backfires, and CBP loses badly, but qualified immunity shields the individuals involved. Much of what CBP does at long distance from the borders is using their authority for border/immigration control as a subterfuge to engage in general crime control activities. They have looked pretty stupid in New England, at one checkpoint, they stopped 4200 cars, caused major traffic headaches, and made one arrest for an overstayed Visa.


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## jis (Jul 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> That is precisely what they rely on. Same thing they get away with about searches. You do not have to consent, and refusal to consent does not constitute reasonable suspicion. They know they will lose in court, they don't care, they count on most people not wanting their trips interrupted. Once in a while it backfires, and CBP loses badly, but qualified immunity shields the individuals involved. Much of what CBP does at long distance from the borders is using their authority for border/immigration control as a subterfuge to engage in general crime control activities. They have looked pretty stupid in New England, at one checkpoint, they stopped 4200 cars, caused major traffic headaches, and made one arrest for an overstayed Visa.


Yup, and as far as I am concerned I don't care enough to spend my time fighting that battle. So I am guilty as charged, but life will go on as is as far as I am concerned. Showing an Id like wearing a mask is an easy thing to do. Those who have the time and money can spend such on this. Not me.

About searches, a favorite technique used by them is when you refuse, they say they will need to get a dog or warrant because they suspect you are carrying drugs or some such and until they can, they need to detain you, so off you go off the train as it sails away. Yeah sure, eventually you'll win and perhaps even extract considerable money from them and all that, but the vacation time is not going to come back. The realities of everyday life strongly lean towards them getting away with it, and they know it and exploit it. The issue is one has to select the windmills to lean against. Cannot lean against every one of them that comes your way.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> That is precisely what they rely on. Same thing they get away with about searches. You do not have to consent, and refusal to consent does not constitute reasonable suspicion. They know they will lose in court, they don't care, they count on most people not wanting their trips interrupted. Once in a while it backfires, and CBP loses badly, but qualified immunity shields the individuals involved. Much of what CBP does at long distance from the borders is using their authority for border/immigration control as a subterfuge to engage in general crime control activities. They have looked pretty stupid in New England, at one checkpoint, they stopped 4200 cars, caused major traffic headaches, and made one arrest for an overstayed Visa.


That sounds like the checkpoint I endured in Vermont in the mid 2000s.

Now, if I were a coyote smuggling Quebecois refugees in search of Anglophone culture and a privatized medical care system, I'd just send a scout car ahead, and if encounters a checkpoint, it can phone to the smuggler's van, which gen then get off at the next exit, and take side roads to avoid the checkpoint.


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## niemi24s (Jul 7, 2021)

Sounds like your travelling companion is an admitted prime candidate for deportation. If so, tell him/her to pack enough toiletries in carry-on to last through detention.


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 7, 2021)

jis said:


> About searches, a favorite technique used by them is when you refuse, they say they will need to get a dog or warrant because they suspect you are carrying drugs or some such and until they can, they need to detain you, so off you go off the train as it sails away.



Yup- that’s the exact line they used on me. Naturally I then agreed to let them search my bag.


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## Asher (Jul 7, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> That sounds like the checkpoint I endured in Vermont in the mid 2000s.
> 
> Now, if I were a coyote smuggling Quebecois refugees in search of Anglophone culture and a privatized medical care system, I'd just send a scout car ahead, and if encounters a checkpoint, it can phone to the smuggler's van, which gen then get off at the next exit, and take side roads to avoid the checkpoint.


 Sending a scout car ahead has always been the way the illegals have operated in So.Cal between San Diego and LA. There is a checkpoint about 1/2 way that opens and closes during each day. I’ve myself have seen numerous time cars stop next to the fast lane, people jump out, climb over a fence between the North and South bound traffic, cross 4 lanes of busy traffic to jump into a nasty terrain. How they make it across the road or out of places they run to is beyond me. Sometimes they turn off early and drive through the 
Camp Pendleton Marine Base. Quite often at a rest stop nearby I’ve watched Border Patrol just walk up to a car, jerk people out and hook em up. Never say a word.


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## jis (Jul 7, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> What do you call a coyote in French?


Coyote - believe it or not  though the specific slang usage is probably not common in French.


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## PVD (Jul 7, 2021)

crescent-zephyr said:


> Yup- that’s the exact line they used on me. Naturally I then agreed to let them search my bag.


It is a shame that they get away with that. At a border or near border checkpoint it makes sense, not away from the borders. It is the job of other law enforcement not CBP. Judges are getting less tolerant, and some people in Congress, particularly NE senators are ramping up the pressure to stop crap like that.


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## jis (Jul 7, 2021)

PVD said:


> It is a shame that they get away with that. At a border or near border checkpoint it makes sense, not away from the borders. It is the job of other law enforcement not CBP. Judges are getting less tolerant, and some people in Congress, particularly NE senators are ramping up the pressure to stop crap like that.


I think we are conflating things here. It is the drug interdiction folks that threaten detention based on finding dogs or warrants or whatever. Usually that is either the local Police or DEA or a combination thereof. Border Patrol has had the tacit understanding that they are allowed to do legality check within 100 miles of the border based on no court ever having told them that they can't AFAICT. So they will just detain you anyway, without the niceties of dogs or whatever.

From others experience I have learned that one thing you want to stay away from is getting into the Border Protection Detention system. It is a surreal la la land. Better to just show the right document and skip. Yes probably most of it is extra-legal, but that is one thing where I don't see any reason to volunteer myself as a Guinea Pig. Anyone else that wants to is of course most welcome.


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## PVD (Jul 7, 2021)

Border patrol will walk a dog around a car at a checkpoint and if it alerts that does constitute a reasonable suspicion. They do use dogs. Rarely on a train. Sadly, they have been caught lying as to what the dog did. The point is, that they are engaging in activities that have nothing to do with the reason they exist. Interestingly, the original post in this thread actually references them performing an enforcement duty that is their function.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 7, 2021)

I used to travel a lot. As a result, I have been through US immigration hundreds of times. No less than five times I have been sent to "the room" for minor perceived infractions. Because I am a middle aged white male, I've been able to politely talk my way out each time. Others would not be so fortunate. Do not mess with DHS people. 

The most amusing one (although not at the time) was when the VIA Canadian stole my passport. They had to pull our car in Winnipeg for a mechanical while we were off doing the VIA city tour. They moved all our luggage but didn't move our documents in the official room document pouch, and I didn't catch it until we had left Winnipeg. They were extremely embarrassed and obtained an official letter from the Canadian government explaining the situation. The US consulate in Vancouver didn't want to talk to me, they said to explain it at the border. The border was not amused. The room is not fun. The guy ahead of me, another American, started yelling at people and got carried away to the cooler. I eventually got in.


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## jis (Jul 7, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> I used to travel a lot. As a result, I have been through US immigration hundreds of times. No less than five times I have been sent to "the room" for minor perceived infractions. Because I am a middle aged white male, I've been able to politely talk my way out each time. Others would not be so fortunate. Do not mess with DHS people.


I so agree with you!

As I always point out to my more privileged friends - arm chair quarter backing about what to do with Border Agents is particularly easy when you yourself are in a low risk group


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## jiml (Jul 7, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Are Canadians rafting across the Niagara River to sneak into the U.S.?


If only we could I'd be watching my baseball team play in Buffalo.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 7, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> I used to travel a lot. As a result, I have been through US immigration hundreds of times. No less than five times I have been sent to "the room" for minor perceived infractions. Because I am a middle aged white male, I've been able to politely talk my way out each time. Others would not be so fortunate. Do not mess with DHS people.
> 
> The most amusing one (although not at the time) was when the VIA Canadian stole my passport. They had to pull our car in Winnipeg for a mechanical while we were off doing the VIA city tour. They moved all our luggage but didn't move our documents in the official room document pouch, and I didn't catch it until we had left Winnipeg. They were extremely embarrassed and obtained an official letter from the Canadian government explaining the situation. The US consulate in Vancouver didn't want to talk to me, they said to explain it at the border. The border was not amused. The room is not fun. The guy ahead of me, another American, started yelling at people and got carried away to the cooler. I eventually got in.


I used to see American kids not Registered for the Draft denied entry @ the Border between BC and Washington and taken away to "the Room" .

Evidently it was on the Computer, and if you were over 18 and weren't registered, you were arrested!


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## Exvalley (Jul 7, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Now, if I were a coyote smuggling Quebecois refugees in search of Anglophone culture


Illegal border crossings from Quebec are more common than most people think. Much less than down south, but not insignificant.

Here is a story about a coyote working the northern border: Vermont man charged in human smuggling case on Canada border


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## NYP2NFL01 (Jul 8, 2021)

I endured an Amtrak border crossing - once! It was on the Maple Leaf, traveling from NY Penn to Niagara Falls, Ontario. Nearly two hours stuck in your seat. You could not even get up to use the restroom!

On subsequent trips, we simply left the train at Niagara Falls, NY and took a taxi across the border. A ten-second inquiry by the border agent, a flash of our passports and we were on our way. Instead of sitting in our seats on the train, we were enjoying dinner at a restaurant.

If we were going further into Canada, say Toronto, this may not have been an option. But for Niagara Falls it certainly was.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 8, 2021)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I endured an Amtrak border crossing - once! It was on the Maple Leaf, traveling from NY Penn to Niagara Falls, Ontario. Nearly two hours stuck in your seat. You could not even get up to use the restroom!
> 
> On subsequent trips, we simply left the train at Niagara Falls, NY and took a taxi across the border. A ten-second inquiry by the border agent, a flash of our passports and we were on our way. Instead of sitting in our seats on the train, we were enjoying dinner at a restaurant.
> 
> If we were going further into Canada, say Toronto, this may not have been an option. But for Niagara Falls it certainly was.


Well, you could buy a ticket from Amtrak to Niagara Falls, NY, take a taxi across the border, then buy a ticket from VIA from Niagara Falls, Ont., to Toronto. You can probably get to the Niagara Falls, Ont. Train station before the train gets there.


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## MARC Rider (Jul 8, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Illegal border crossings from Quebec are more common than most people think. Much less than down south, but not insignificant.
> 
> Here is a story about a coyote working the northern border: Vermont man charged in human smuggling case on Canada border


This may be true, but notice that they didn't catch them at a random interior checkpoint on a busy interstate highway where it's easy enough to get off and drive around the checkpoint. They actually had sensors at the border and did an investigation focused on real evidence.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 8, 2021)

jis said:


> After a close call or two, I acquired a Passport Card and carry it in my wallet at all times. However, I have never had to actually use it on a train. It is used mostly at airports with TSA. I have used it to travel by train to Canada and back though. Works very well, and I don't get asked inane questions about my travels to Israel or Muscat and Oman.


With modern e-visas a swipe of a serialized passport card should be all that is required for most global travel but instead we have to carry a booklet with several pages of filler content that leaks up to ten years of your travel history to overzealous inspectors and entry level desk clerks all over the world.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

You had to bring up the Maple Leaf. Our dedicated civil servants decided that I just might be smuggling my 5 year old daughter into the US, despite having birth certificates and a notarized note from Mom. We have different last names, but never had a problem with that before. Once they decided we were somehow suspicious, they took us to opposite ends of the cafe car where we could see but not hear each other. They asked me my full life history and went through every pill in my bag, while she played 20 questions about where she lived and with whom. It helped that they finally got Mom on the phone, but only partially. I will say they were very polite with both of us. When they were done, a supervisor pulled me aside and asked if I had any concerns about the way we were handled. Being extremely eager to get us and the train on its way, I assured him I was absolutely delighted with their sense of caution. I did ask very politely if they had any particular reason for singling us out, and he said they did, but he couldn't tell me what. Maybe they were looking for a kidnapped kid. 

Okay, that's two of five room visits. Stop me.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 8, 2021)

Brian Battuello said:


> Our dedicated civil servants decided that I just might be smuggling my 5 year old daughter into the US, despite having birth certificates and a notarized note from Mom.


This is becoming an increasingly common issue. Even when your trip is legitimate and you've taken all reasonable precautions you can still find yourself in a trafficking accusation nightmare through no fault of your own. Employers are asking staff to report any concerns with unusual behavior but the rank and file are poorly equipped for this task and the limited training some receive does not do enough to counter personal biases and exclude harmless behavior.









Delta Falsely Accuses Frequent Flyer Of Trafficking His Special Needs Daughter - View from the Wing


Peter Espinosa flew first class from Minneapolis to Dallas on Delta with his 20 year old daughter who has genetic disorder Fragile X Syndrome. They were headed to visit his son – her brother – for Father’s Day. A flight attendant saw a Hispanic man with a woman young enough to be his daughter...




viewfromthewing.com


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

Some really tragic stories in there. At least I was never accused of anything, they were just investigating. Again, I've never been detained further than the room, officially known as "secondary inspection". I did have a college girlfriend fail secondary. She was given a choice of going to an airport holding cell or renting an airport hotel room and a security guard at her expense, which was actually a pretty reasonable solution. She wasn't supposed to make any calls but she called around 3am to report that her (female) security guard, who SHE was paying for, was sound asleep. I suggested we hang up before she woke up. The next morning her university was able to provide the correct paperwork and she was released.


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## PVD (Jul 8, 2021)

Most at border crossing issues  involve Customs Officers, not BP, and at or close to border interactions, which can be very frustrating, are at least related to the reason these agencies exist. Not to go on fishing expeditions hoping to make a drug arrest or justify a civil asset forfeiture.


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## jis (Jul 8, 2021)

PVD said:


> Most at border crossing issues  involve Customs Officers, not BP, and at or close to border interactions, which can be very frustrating, are at least related to the reason these agencies exist. Not to go on fishing expeditions hoping to make a drug arrest or justify a civil asset forfeiture.


I thought a lot of the Civil Asset Forfeiture involved local police in places like Albuquerque, and had nothing to do with Border Patrol.

I agree that the Border Entry Points do not have Border Patrol Agents. They have Customs Agents and Immigration Agents. Many of course confuse the latter two either as the same or conflate with Border Patrol. Border Patrol are the CBP Agents that are not at the Border Checkpoint, but basically everywhere else, wherever they can get away with sticking their nose into beyond actually pattroling the land and surface borders.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 8, 2021)

The specific method and process of forfeiture varies by situation and circumstance. The authority to search without cause is distinct from the authority to seize without charge but the level of coordination allowed between different groups and departments can short circuit fundamental liberties and protections that require a meaningful separation of powers to exist as more than a theoretical construct.






Link: https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2020-09/OIG-20-66-Aug20.pdf


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## Exvalley (Jul 8, 2021)

Another article about an illegal crossing at the northern border:








Vehicle Illegally Enters the United States Through Private Property in Northern Vermont - Breaking911


DERBY LINE, Vt. – U.S. Border Patrol agents from the Newport Station apprehended seven people who illegally entered the country, and the entry was captured on surveillance technology. On July 4, agents were alerted by Swanton Sector’s Communication Center of a vehicle that had illegally entered...




breaking911.com





I posted it mainly for some trivia. Does anyone know what the large building in the photo is and what makes it so special?


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## niemi24s (Jul 8, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> Another article about an illegal crossing at the northern border:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just as a WAG, looks like "The vehicle drove over the lawn of the Haskell Free Library. . ."


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## Exvalley (Jul 8, 2021)

niemi24s said:


> Just as a WAG, looks like "The vehicle drove over the lawn of the Haskell Free Library. . ."


That's the building. Why is it special?


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## jis (Jul 8, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> The specific method and process of forfeiture varies by situation and circumstance. The authority to search without cause is distinct from the authority to seize without charge but the level of coordination allowed between different groups and departments can short circuit fundamental liberties and protections that require a meaningful separation of powers to exist as more than a theoretical construct.
> 
> View attachment 23515
> 
> ...


Interesting. So these are the forfeitures involving DHS, and do not include the local, County and State Police forfeitures, right? Does anyone keep track of those in a consolidated way? Maybe Department of Justice perhaps? Probably not. Isn't there a huge amount of forfeiture done by the DEA which is not under DHS but under DoJ?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 8, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> That's the building. Why is it special?



The Border goes through the centre of the building. 

And there's also CanUSA Street in Rock Island/Derby Line. The yellow line down the centre of the road is the border. Houses on the left are in the US and on the right in Canada









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl


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## Exvalley (Jul 8, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> The Border goes through the centre of the building.


We have a winner!

The library serves two towns - one in Canada and one in the United States. The border runs right through the building.

How has the library operated while the border is closed? Sadly, it hasn't. It has remained closed since the border was closed.


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## Trollopian (Jul 8, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> With modern e-visas a swipe of a serialized passport card should be all that is required for most global travel but instead we have to carry a booklet with several pages of filler content that leaks up to ten years of your travel history to overzealous inspectors and entry level desk clerks all over the world.



Oui, c'est vrai, but surely I'm not the only person who rather appreciates the retro appearance and the formal script of our U.S. passports? And the very correct diplomatic French. "_Le Secrétaire d'État des États-Unis d'Amérique prie par les présentes toutes autorités compétentes de laisser passer le citoyen ou ressortissant des États-Unis titulaire du présent passeport, sans délai ni difficulté et, en cas de besoin, de lui accorder toute aide et protection légitimes."_ The English translation, which is pretty faithful, nevertheless doesn't convey the full flavor. "Prie," for example, becomes a banal "request" when a more accurate rendering would be "entreat" or "beseech." And from the Secretary of State him- or herself! That somehow glams up the morning trudge at Heathrow or CDG.


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## jis (Jul 8, 2021)

I really liked going through the biometric immigration barrier in Amsterdam. In the UK I think we can register to use theirs just like they can register and use Global Entry kiosks here.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 8, 2021)

Just an FYI on the Maple Leaf. They no longer do the onboard inspection on it. All passengers detrain with ALL their stuff and go through Customs and Immigration processing much like at an airport. Then you hang around the station until they open the train for reboarding.

The new Niagara Falls, NY station is built for international inspections and is much better than the old Lehigh Valley freighthouse station was.


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

Glad to hear it. This was a long time ago.

And regarding the Canadian/American library lawn, looks like it needs a wall..


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## crescent-zephyr (Jul 8, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Just an FYI on the Maple Leaf. They no longer do the onboard inspection on it. All passengers detrain with ALL their stuff and go through Customs and Immigration processing much like at an airport. Then you hang around the station until they open the train for reboarding.
> 
> The new Niagara Falls, NY station is built for international inspections and is much better than the old Lehigh Valley freighthouse station was.



A bonus of business class on the Maple Leaf... you get to get off the train first which means you are first in line and don’t have to wait so long for your questioning. 

Bonus tip- don’t say you like trains or that your vacation plans were made around VIA rail... they will find that to be very suspicious!!!


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

For some reason whenever I go through JFK immigration, the DHS guy looks at the screen and scowls. But then maybe he decides they've given me a hard enough time and cuts me a break.

Remember that I have three more "room" stories to go...


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## Brian Battuello (Jul 8, 2021)

By the way, I'm not sure if this was the "ID check" topic or not. However on a routine Acela run today, the conductor asked exactly one party in our car to see their ID. He was almost apologetic and said that the computer (i.e. his company cell phone) told him who to check, and as far as he could tell it was more or less random. He didn't or wouldn't say how often it pops up. So he was checking, but only occasionally. If you had any sort of ID I think he'd be happy, he wasn't exactly checking nationality.


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## PVD (Jul 8, 2021)

That is the way it works for conductors scanning tickets. Amtrak has a list of acceptable forms of ID. Nationality is not relevant to Amtrak.


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## neroden (Jul 9, 2021)

jis said:


> Yup, and as far as I am concerned I don't care enough to spend my time fighting that battle. So I am guilty as charged, but life will go on as is as far as I am concerned. Showing an Id like wearing a mask is an easy thing to do. Those who have the time and money can spend such on this. Not me.
> 
> About searches, a favorite technique used by them is when you refuse, they say they will need to get a dog or warrant because they suspect you are carrying drugs or some such and until they can, they need to detain you, so off you go off the train as it sails away.



Correct response when on Amtrak, IMO, is "Get the conductor." 

As I explained to the DEA agent when I was harassed by the DEA on Amtrak -- Amtrak has the authority to search my luggage (I agreed to this when I bought my ticket), check my ID, and so forth -- the DEA, Border Patrol, ICE, and so forth do not have that authority. 

If the conductor wants to cooperate with them and search my luggage, I let him (which is what happened that time). If the conductor doesn't want to, well, the conductor rules and has the power to kick cops off the train. Either way, I get the conductor. Rogue law enforcement agencies behave themselves better when there's a witness in a uniform.


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## NYP2NFL01 (Jul 9, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> Well, you could buy a ticket from Amtrak to Niagara Falls, NY, take a taxi across the border, then buy a ticket from VIA from Niagara Falls, Ont., to Toronto. You can probably get to the Niagara Falls, Ont. Train station before the train gets there.


Brilliant idea! I didn’t think of that


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 9, 2021)

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Brilliant idea! I didn’t think of that


Chances are that the Maple Leaf, as we know it won't be coming back any time soon, if ever!

With the Canadian Border closed at least till the end of the Summer,GO Transit, the outfit that runs the Go Commuter Trains and Buses between Niagara Falls and Toronto, has slowly resumed some services to the Canadian side of the Border, while Amtrak is only running Empire Service Trains to the American side.

There is a plan to allow passengers crossing the Border on a Train to/from Montreal, to go through Customs and Immigtstion @ the Montreal Station, like is normally done @ the Vancouver Rail Staion on the Suspended Trains to/from Seattle, ( and the Torinto,Montreal and Vancouver Airports)but nothing seems to be happening about it being implemented @ Union Station in Toronto .

I used to ride the Maple Leaf several times a year, and never had any problems @ the VIA Station entering Canada, but on the return to the US, the Agents @ the Station on the New York side would go out of their way to be rude,slow and suspicious.

On the other hand, crossing the border by land was always Ezzy/ Pezzy.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 9, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> There is a plan to allow passengers crossing the Border on a Train to/from Montreal, to go through Customs and Immigtstion @ the Montreal Station, like is normally done @ the Vancouver Rail Staion on the Suspended Trains to/from Seattle, ( and the Torinto,Montreal and Vancouver Airports)but nothing seems to be happening about it being implemented @ Union Station in Toronto .



As discussed previously....it would be difficult to clear passengers in Toronto as the train makes several stops between there and the border (150km)

The Cascades runs non-stop to Vancouver and when the Montreal facility opens...the Adirondack will also run non-stop and the current suburban St. Lambert stop will be eliminated.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 9, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> As discussed previously....it would be difficult to clear passengers in Toronto as the train makes several stops between there and the border (150km)
> 
> The Cascades runs non-stop to Vancouver and when the Montreal facility opens...the Adirondack will also run non-stop and the current suburban St. Lambert stop will be eliminated.


Thanks!

So the Maple Leaf, if resumed, will still be a VIA Train between Toronto and the stop in Niagara Falls @ the VIA Station, and an Amtrak Train between NYP and the stop @ the VIA Station on the Canadian side.


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## PVD (Jul 9, 2021)

neroden said:


> Correct response when on Amtrak, IMO, is "Get the conductor."
> 
> As I explained to the DEA agent when I was harassed by the DEA on Amtrak -- Amtrak has the authority to search my luggage (I agreed to this when I bought my ticket), check my ID, and so forth -- the DEA, Border Patrol, ICE, and so forth do not have that authority.
> 
> If the conductor wants to cooperate with them and search my luggage, I let him (which is what happened that time). If the conductor doesn't want to, well, the conductor rules and has the power to kick cops off the train. Either way, I get the conductor. Rogue law enforcement agencies behave themselves better when there's a witness in a uniform.


As to ID, Amtrak has agreed to let any LEO check ID. It is on the website, I don't see anything about searches except by Amtrak or "an authorized carrier representative" For liability reasons, I would suspect that LE is not a representative of Amtrak.


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## zephyr17 (Jul 9, 2021)

NS VIA Fan said:


> As discussed previously....it would be difficult to clear passengers in Toronto as the train makes several stops between there and the border (150km)
> 
> The Cascades runs non-stop to Vancouver and when the Montreal facility opens...the Adirondack will also run non-stop and the current suburban St. Lambert stop will be eliminated.


There has been discussion that Canada use its Preclearance rights to move their CBSA operation into the new Niagara Falls, NY station. The new facility was designed for use by both countries.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 9, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> There has been discussion that Canada use its Preclearance rights to move their CBSA operation into the new Niagara Falls, NY station. The new facility was designed for use by both countries.



That would make the most sense! Run a couple of GO Trains to NF NY where passengers would clear CBP or CBSA and connect to/from Empire Service Trains. A couple of frequencies could be offered each way each day.


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