# Preferred Canadian Travel Direction



## PNW Pax (Aug 25, 2022)

I am thinking of taking the Canadian from Vancouver, BC to Toronto, but I've noticed that most posts and videos are from Toronto to Vancouver. Is it more scenic to go east to west or does it matter?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 25, 2022)

I prefer Vancouver-Toronto.

1. Under the current timetable, the spectacular views just east of Jasper are in the pre-dawn hours. They are often on or close to schedule there because of the massive amounts of pad in the schedule and the scheduled 4 hour dwell at Edmonton westbound (they only need a hour). Eastbound, you get all the good Rockies viewing from Valemount to roughly an hour east of Jasper.
2. While they let you stay onboard until 8 am and they serve full breakfast, I don't care fot the early morning arrival at Vancouver. It often arrives around 5 am. I prefer the mid day arrival in Toronto.
3. In spring and summer, you get at the least the lower Fraser River Canyon in BC in daylight eastbound. It is pre dawn westbound.
4. Price. BC doesn't charge a provincial tax on tickets. Ontario does. So if you originate in Vancouver, you can save like $100 CAD.


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## thully (Aug 25, 2022)

I just took the Canadian westbound, and the reason for preferring that direction is that you get to see more of the interesting scenery between Jasper and Kamloops if on time. In particular, the areas around Kamloops (such as Kamloops Lake) are at least partially during daytime in the westbound direction, but in the dark going east. This would be less of a concern in the winter than in the summer as you see less of these areas in the daylight. Also, if you were to take the Empire Builder as a return leg, the preferred direction for scenery on that train is definitely eastbound, as otherwise Glacier National Park may be in the dark if late and/or outside of summer months - which would mean taking the westbound Canadian.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 26, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I prefer Vancouver-Toronto.
> 
> 1. Under the current timetable, the spectacular views just east of Jasper are in the pre-dawn hours. They are often on or close to schedule there because of the massive amounts of pad in the schedule and the scheduled 4 hour dwell at Edmonton westbound (they only need a hour). Eastbound, you get all the good Rockies viewing from Valemount to roughly an hour east of Jasper.
> 2. While they let you stay onboard until 8 am and they serve full breakfast, I don't care fot the early morning arrival at Vancouver. It often arrives around 5 am. I prefer the mid day arrival in Toronto.
> ...


Ditto!


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## west point (Aug 26, 2022)

Quite by accident started my mid june trip Vancouver - Toronto 3 days before a full moon. You can imagine the photo opportunities 24 hours a day from the dome car.. Camera failed or I would have caught a full moon shinning over the signal heads. . Would make the composition slightly out of focus. My planned title was going to be "lunar over green". That impossible aspect would have been hard to explain.


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## jiml (Aug 26, 2022)

Both directions have their merits and the first two replies have made an excellent case for each. Having done the trip several times I personally find the eastbound a bit of a letdown once out of Alberta. With the main scenery gone it becomes just another train journey, which might be less of an attraction for a first-timer. Westbound the novelty of the trip is replaced with anticipation of the views to come. Timekeeping is another huge issue on the Canadian in either direction - especially off-season, and I can attest that arriving in Toronto at 3am is no fun (and I lived there at the time).


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## joelkfla (Aug 26, 2022)

jiml said:


> Having done the trip several times I personally find the eastbound a bit of a letdown once out of Alberta. With the main scenery gone it becomes just another train journey, which might be less of an attraction for a first-timer.


If things are fully back to normal, you still have the domes, the Park car, an Artist on Board, and excellent dining, which make it more than just another train journey IMO. At least, more than just another Amtrak train journey.


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## PNW Pax (Aug 27, 2022)

Thanks for your suggestions. You gave me lots to think about.


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## MontanaJim (Oct 11, 2022)

im looking at a possible trip this winter, prob in mid january. likely doing coach. last time i rode the canadian (also in coach) i lucked out and no seat mate the entire way. Only having one possible coach this time has me worried my luck might not be so good. 5 day trip with someone next to me might not be so fun. though maybe id have an empty seat next to me at least some of the time.

Re the earlier post "Price. BC doesn't charge a provincial tax on tickets. Ontario does. So if you originate in Vancouver, you can save like $100 CAD." when i plug in toronto-vancouver and vancouver-toronto in january, gives me same basic price of 514 CDN for a coach seat. id prob go vancouver-toronto if i saved 100 CDN but right now the system isnt showing that for me.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 11, 2022)

MontanaJim said:


> im looking at a possible trip this winter, prob in mid january. likely doing coach. last time i rode the canadian (also in coach) i lucked out and no seat mate the entire way. Only having one possible coach this time has me worried my luck might not be so good. 5 day trip with someone next to me might not be so fun. though maybe id have an empty seat next to me at least some of the time.
> 
> Re the earlier post "Price. BC doesn't charge a provincial tax on tickets. Ontario does. So if you originate in Vancouver, you can save like $100 CAD." when i plug in toronto-vancouver and vancouver-toronto in january, gives me same basic price of 514 CDN for a coach seat. id prob go vancouver-toronto if i saved 100 CDN but right now the system isnt showing that for me.


The Provencal Goods and Service Tax is added to the Fare before Check out!( BC doesn't do this,Ontario does)

Worth saving $$$ for use on the Trip if you go Vancouver to Toronto!


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

MontanaJim said:


> So if you originate in Vancouver, you can save like $100 CAD." when i plug in toronto-vancouver and vancouver-toronto in january, gives me same basic price of 514 CDN for a coach seat. id prob go vancouver-toronto if i saved 100 CDN but right now the system isnt showing that for me.


It won't be $100 CAD on a $514 coach fare with taxes not included. The tax is a percentage and I book roomettes at a higher fare.

There is a toggle to display fares with all taxes included on the website. The default is not to, change it and you'll see the difference in total fares with taxes included. I just ran it. TRTO-VCVR is $580.82 CAD Economy with taxes included and VCVR-TRTO is $539.70 CAD. The difference is BC doesn't charge a provincial GST/HST so you only get hit with the Federal one. Ontario hits you with with theirs, and you still pay the Federal one, too.

The other cool thing is if you are doing a round trip you get charged taxes based on your point of origin, so VCVR-TRTO-VCVR is quite a bit cheaper than TRTO-VCVR-TRTO because of no provincial GST even though you will be boarding the return leg in Ontario.


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## Shanson (Oct 12, 2022)

We have done both directions, either is good. One consideration: the scenery gets more impressive as you travel westbound. The "boring" part is early, and then anticipation builds as you approach the Rockies.


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## jasminvirgelzaa72 (Oct 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> I prefer Vancouver-Toronto.
> 
> 1. Under the current timetable, the spectacular views just east of Jasper are in the pre-dawn hours. They are often on or close to schedule there because of the massive amounts of pad in the schedule and the scheduled 4 hour dwell at Edmonton westbound (they only need a hour). Eastbound, you get all the good Rockies viewing from Valemount to roughly an hour east of Jasper.
> 2. While they let you stay onboard until 8 am and they serve full breakfast, I don't care fot the early morning arrival at Vancouver. It often arrives around 5 am. I prefer the mid day arrival in Toronto.
> ...


thanks for this info


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## MontanaJim (Oct 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> It won't be $100 CAD on a $514 coach fare with taxes not included. The tax is a percentage and I book roomettes at a higher fare.
> 
> There is a toggle to display fares with all taxes included on the website. The default is not to, change it and you'll see the difference in total fares with taxes included. I just ran it. TRTO-VCVR is $580.82 CAD Economy with taxes included and VCVR-TRTO is $539.70 CAD. The difference is BC doesn't charge a provincial GST/HST so you only get hit with the Federal one. Ontario hits you with with theirs, and you still pay the Federal one, too.
> 
> The other cool thing is if you are doing a round trip you get charged taxes based on your point of origin, so VCVR-TRTO-VCVR is quite a bit cheaper than TRTO-VCVR-TRTO because of no provincial GST even though you will be boarding the return leg in Ontario.


thank you, now i see it. Amount isnt as great on economy but hey, ill try to save what i can. So i may just do Vancouver-Toronto. I did find a "sale" page on sleeper plus on VIA's page. It only offers November bookings but shows some sleeper berths as low as 600-650 CDN. Now for that price i may just look into a sleeper berth! I will keep an eye out to see if any such sale fares are offered for January, when I plan to ride. A RT sounds intriguing--could do coach one way and sleeper the other if i can get one of the cheapie sleeper births i mentioned. However, since I now live in Vermont, going RT out of Vancouver would require me to fly RT to Vancouver from Vermont. A RT out of Toronto would definitely be more easy on the schedule but then id have the Ontario taxes to contend with. Will see. Still might do it if i can get a cheapie sleeper berth for one way.


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## MontanaJim (Oct 12, 2022)

Shanson said:


> We have done both directions, either is good. One consideration: the scenery gets more impressive as you travel westbound. The "boring" part is early, and then anticipation builds as you approach the Rockies.


thank you, i did westbound the one last time i rode. Im fine with either direction. I am from Montana so big mountains ive seen before, dont mind if comes first in trip. I am hoping to see Mt Robson on the trip, however.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

MontanaJim said:


> I did find a "sale" page on sleeper plus on VIA's page. It only offers November bookings but shows some sleeper berths as low as 600-650 CDN.


The Sleeper Plus Sale page is a "distressed inventory" sale. It only shows specific accommodations between specific city pairs on specific dates that they don't think they can sell at normal "discount" prices. Inventory only shows up on it roughly 4-8 weeks in advance. Chances of open section berths being available on it for January departures are probably pretty good if you can keep your plans open.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2022)

MontanaJim said:


> thank you, now i see it. Amount isnt as great on economy but hey, ill try to save what i can. So i may just do Vancouver-Toronto. I did find a "sale" page on sleeper plus on VIA's page. It only offers November bookings but shows some sleeper berths as low as 600-650 CDN. Now for that price i may just look into a sleeper berth! I will keep an eye out to see if any such sale fares are offered for January, when I plan to ride. A RT sounds intriguing--could do coach one way and sleeper the other if i can get one of the cheapie sleeper births i mentioned. However, since I now live in Vermont, going RT out of Vancouver would require me to fly RT to Vancouver from Vermont. A RT out of Toronto would definitely be more easy on the schedule but then id have the Ontario taxes to contend with. Will see. Still might do it if i can get a cheapie sleeper berth for one way.


The Lower Berths in the Sections ( best Bedding Ive ever slept in on a Train)are the way to go since they have a Window and the Uppers don't, but the Uppers can be found for a really Low Price on some days in the Winter.I paid $400 CDN for an Upper in Feb of 2020 from Vancouver to Toronto.

Another advantage in the Winter is less crowded, shorter Consist, beautiful Snowy Vistas but the same Great Food and Service including more usage of the Park Car and you still get to use the Lounges with the Swells.


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## joelkfla (Oct 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The Sleeper Plus Sale page is a "distressed inventory" sale. It only shows specific accommodations between specific city pairs on specific dates that they don't think they can sell at normal "discount" prices. Inventory only shows up on it roughly 4-8 weeks in advance. Chances of open section berths being available on it for January departures are probably pretty good if you can keep your plans open.


Wow! Those discounts are quite drastic!

I don't know why, but the fares on the booking page are in Canadian dollars, but the fares on the sale page (based on the "regular price" displayed) appear to be in U.S. dollars.

So on the booking page, a Senior fare Discounted Cabin for 2 from Toronto to Vancouver is $2,958.00 CAD pre-tax, which converts to $2,144 USD. On the deals page, on 3 dates during the last 2 weeks of November, it's just $1160 -- almost a 50% discount, and less than the Discounted Cabin for 1! That's mighty tempting.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Wow! Those discounts are quite drastic!
> 
> I don't know why, but the fares on the booking page are in Canadian dollars, but the fares on the sale page (based on the "regular price" displayed) appear to be in U.S. dollars.
> 
> So on the booking page, a Senior fare Discounted Cabin for 2 from Toronto to Vancouver is $2,958.00 CAD pre-tax, which converts to $2,144 USD. On the deals page, on 3 dates during the last 2 weeks of November, it's just $1160 -- almost a 50% discount, and less than the Discounted Cabin for 1! That's mighty tempting.


All fares on viarail.ca are in CAD.

40-50% off is pretty much the usual discount on the Sleeper Plus Sale page.

Note that all fares on VIA are quoted per person. VIA does not do the traditional rail fare + accommodation charge method that Amtrak still uses (despite the fact that the current Amtrak.com UI does its best to hide it). With that said, single occupancy in a Cabin for 2 is 150% of the per person fare, that $2958 includes it. The Cabin for 1 fare ($1972) is the same as each person for double occupancy of a Cabin for 2. What you see on the sale page does not reflect the single occupancy surcharge but is the per person fare for double occupancy. 1160 represents about a 42% discount from 1972 so is right in line with normal Sleeper Plus Sale page discounts.

If you go through with booking, you'll find that the $1160 will become $1740 by checkout. Still less than the discounted Cabin for 1, but not quite the steal you think it might be. The 150% for single occupancy of a Cabin for 2 applies no matter what fare you are booking, full, discount or distressed inventory sale.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Wow! Those discounts are quite drastic!
> 
> I don't know why, but the fares on the booking page are in Canadian dollars, but the fares on the sale page (based on the "regular price" displayed) appear to be in U.S. dollars.
> 
> So on the booking page, a Senior fare Discounted Cabin for 2 from Toronto to Vancouver is $2,958.00 CAD pre-tax, which converts to $2,144 USD. On the deals page, on 3 dates during the last 2 weeks of November, it's just $1160 -- almost a 50% discount, and less than the Discounted Cabin for 1! That's mighty tempting.


That's a Great Deal!


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

Bob Dylan said:


> That's a Great Deal!


See my post above. $1160 is really $1740 for single occupancy in a Cabin for 2. Still a good deal, but not the fantastic one it initially appears to be.

Best deal would be an actual $1160 for a Cabin for 1. Alas, Cabin for 1 appearances on the Sleeper Plus Sale page have gotten pretty rare.


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## joelkfla (Oct 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> All fares on viarail.ca are in CAD.
> 
> 40-50% off is pretty much the usual discount on the Sleeper Plus Sale page.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that wasn't clear to me. I assumed $1160 was the full price.

I just talked to VIA on the phone, and the rep said that the rates on the Sleeper Plus deals are doubled for single occupancy. I specifically asked about 75%, because I had seen that somewhere on the website, and he said that applies to regular bookings, but the Deals are doubled.

It's very confusing. He said that the Deals page says the price is "per person", but IMHO it could be a lot clearer. OTOH, the booking page builds the single occupancy premium into the quoted price, based on the number of travelers specified.

So, I had assumed the prices on the Deals page were in USD because the original price shown is roughly the USD equivalent of the CAD price on the booking page. Are the Deals page prices actually in CAD?

I also asked about the accessible bedroom, which is not shown online, and it turns out the fare is even lower. But unlike Amtrak, an approval process is required, and he said that they generally require the passenger to be bound to a wheelchair. However, VIA _will _carry mobility scooters as baggage, unlike Amtrak which will not because of their weight. The only way to travel in a sleeper with a scooter on Amtrak is to book the accessible bedroom; not the case on VIA.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Thanks, that wasn't clear to me. I assumed $1160 was the full price.
> 
> I just talked to VIA on the phone, and the rep said that the rates on the Sleeper Plus deals are doubled for occupancy. I specifically asked about 75%, because I had seen that somewhere on the website, and he said that applies to regular bookings, but the Deals are doubled.
> 
> It's very confusing. He said that the Deals page says the price is "per person", but IMHO it could be a lot clearer. OTOH, the booking page builds in the single occupancy premium to the quoted price, based on the number of travelers specified.


It is the old "per person, double occupancy" gotcha that isn't limited to VIA.

I didn't know that they doubled it for the Sleeper Plus Sale page only. I assumed it was still the 150% that they use everywhere else. Too bad Cabins for 1 so seldom show up on the Sale page now.

Every price quoted by VIA is in CAD. VIA is a Crown Corporation wholly owned by His Majesty's government and operating solely within Canada. About the only place they might accept US currency is onboard to pay for drinks and snacks. I am not sure about that since I only use Canadian currency when I am up there, but I've seen USD in the Park Car and Skyline attendants' cash boxes.

I wonder if VIA handles mobility scooters to their remote stations. The big terminals I get, those have equipment to handle heavy items, but VIA accepts checked baggage to every place they stop, from Toronto Union Station to a trackside shed in Ottermere. I was in the Canadian's baggage car once when an SM took pity on me and escorted me up there to retrieve an item that I should not have put in my checked bag. I don't recall having seen any equipment to manage such heavy items stowed in it.


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## joelkfla (Oct 12, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> It is the old "per person, double occupancy" gotcha that isn't limited to VIA.
> 
> I didn't know that they doubled it for the Sleeper Plus Sale page only. I assumed it was still the 150% that they use everywhere else. Too bad Cabins for 1 so seldom show up on the Sale page now.
> 
> Every price quoted by VIA is in CAD. VIA is a Crown Corporation wholly owned by His Majesty's government and operating solely within Canada. About the only place they might accept US currency is onboard to pay for drinks and snacks. I am not sure about that since I only use Canadian currency when I am up there, but I've seen USD in the Park Car and Skyline attendants' cash boxes.


You were right, he was wrong. I did a test booking from the Deals page, and 1 adult was $1,740 CAD pre-tax, which is 150% of $1,160. That's $1,261 USD, not much more than the $1,160 I had assumed. Still food for thought. I'll see how they look around Jan-Feb next year.

From the booking page, Cabin for 2 - discounted for 1 senior was $2,958 CAD.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 12, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> From the booking page, Cabin for 2 - discounted for 1 senior was $2,958 CAD.


I ran it anonymously as an "adult" passenger and got $2958 CAD as well. I don't think VIA applies the senior discount to anything except their undiscounted fare class.

Just think if they had that $1160 CAD offer for a Cabin for 1. That'd be $839.30 at today's exchange rate (1 CAD = .72 USD).


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## uncleboots (Oct 13, 2022)

I’ve done Vancouver Toronto 4 times and Vancouver Banff once. Love West to East for Canadian Rail Trips.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 19, 2022)

the bigger question is…. Why not just ride from Vancouver to Winnipeg and back?


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## thully (Oct 19, 2022)

The scenery in Ontario is actually pretty interesting with all the lakes you see. I found Winnipeg-Edmonton to be more boring, in fact. Going in I was wondering if the 4 days would be too much, but I really didn’t - my only annoyance was the large amount of padding added to the schedule which caused us to sit in Edmonton for a few hours. So I’d go for the whole route unless you’re time/money constrained, in which case Vancouver-Jasper (or Vancouver-Edmonton) is the best part.


crescent-zephyr said:


> the bigger question is…. Why not just ride from Vancouver to Winnipeg and back?


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 19, 2022)

thully said:


> The scenery in Ontario is actually pretty interesting with all the lakes you see.


To be fair…. I rode in the winter when most of the rivers / lakes were frozen over so it was just lots and lots of snow for those first 2 days. It was novel for about an hour. perhaps I’ll try it again sometime in a warmer season.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 19, 2022)

I've ridden it enough both directions now that I am familiar with just about every aspect of it. And I like it all for different reasons.

I find the Canadian Shield in Northern Ontario with its granite outcroppings and lakes to be interesting and the stretch around Sioux Lookout especially scenic. I always wonder how they determined the alignment. I actually like it more in winter. If there has been fresh snow, the train kicking up the snow and filling the air with sparkles on a sunny day from the dome is very pretty and a unique experience.

I like sitting in the dome across the prairies and watching the signals and listening to the scanner. I also always enjoy dropping into the big coulee west of Rivers.

The Rockies are spectacular between Verdemont and Entrance (east of Jasper). I admit I have ridden it enough that I don't even try for a dome seat through there. I've seen it and will leave the dome seat to someone who hasn't.

For me, the big attraction is the train itself. And I love sitting in the dome at night watching the play of light down the stainless consist as the signals change.

For scenery, overall the CZ is better. But the train is itself is matchless.


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## crescent-zephyr (Oct 19, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> For me, the big attraction is the train itself. And I love sitting in the dome at night watching the play of light down the stainless consist as the signals change.
> 
> For scenery, overall the CZ is better. But the train is itself is matchless.



It’s not an overnight train so not a direct comparison but you should give Alaska Railroad a shot - best of both worlds as far as scenery and great consist - although it ranks the lowest of the 3 as far as food. (VIA, Amtrak and Alaska RR).


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## zephyr17 (Oct 19, 2022)

crescent-zephyr said:


> It’s not an overnight train so not a direct comparison but you should give Alaska Railroad a shot - best of both worlds as far as scenery and great consist - although it ranks the lowest of the 3 as far as food. (VIA, Amtrak and Alaska RR).


Went from Anchorage to Fairbanks and back in the 80s and loved the ex-UP ACF dome coaches. Went from Anchorage to Seward on a cruise connection train in the 2000s. Anchorage to Seward is the single most spectacular stretch of railroad I have ever ridden.


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