# Canada coast to coast dream trip



## dadonatrain (Apr 13, 2022)

I’ve got a fantasy trip I’d love to take, because Canada has always been one of my two favorite non-US countries. It’s only a fantasy, not even a “dream”, as I define those terms, because practically speaking there’s no chance it’ll ever happen, but I can still fantasize about it.

I’d get to Halifax from Greenville, SC, by train. See Halifax. Then do Halifax-Montreal. Lay over a few days there cuz I’ve never seen Montreal. Then any sensible Montreal-Toronto. Lay over again, maybe visit the hockey hall of fame. Then Toronto-Jasper. Lay over there a few days. Can’t beat that scenery! Then finish up Jasper-Prince Rupert. Ideally I’d do the Toronto-Jasper leg in Prestige class just to see how good it is and to say I’d done it. After that, I’d take ferries back down to the US and who cares where I go or how I do it after that?! But it’d be by train, that’s for sure! 

One possible variation I’d like to tack on would be to split the Canadian at Winnipeg and sandwich in a round trip to Churchill. I’ve never seen polar bears in the wild and the only time I ever saw the northern lights was so long ago, I barely remember it. I’d love to do those two things on this fantasy trip!

I know this trip would cost me some expense, but it’s my fantasy trip! Actually, the two factors that would most influence the final cost would be 1) if I could book Toronto-Jasper in Prestige vs “regular” first class; and 2) the alimony taking this trip at all would cost me!

Anyone else have any fantasy trips you’d like to talk about? Any thoughts on mine? Including just how monumentally stupid the idea really is?


----------



## Cal (Apr 13, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> Anyone else have any fantasy trips you’d like to talk about? Any thoughts on mine? Including just how monumentally stupid the idea really is?


Same as yours! And it's not stupid, it's a wonderful fantasy.


----------



## pennyk (Apr 13, 2022)

I was able to accomplish a partial trip across Canada in 2011 and 2012, when fares were much more reasonable and routing was more frequent. In December 2011, I took the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver. In Fall 2012, I took the Ocean roundtrip from Montreal to Halifax and back. I had the help of AU members in planning and executing these trips, to whom I am thankful (although all are no longer with us). 
In 2011, I traveled from ORL to NYP, spent, the night, then traveled on the Maple Leaf to Toronto. I seem to recall meeting up with AU members, AlanB, Shanghai and Jis in New York. Returning from Vancover, I traveled to Seattle, spent the night, then using points, I traveled on the Coast Starlight, CZ, CL and Meteor home to Orlando. For a lifetime Floridian, seeing so much snow was a really big deal. I recall being in Winnipeg when it was 15 below (the coldest I had ever experienced). I lasted about 5 minutes outside, then warmed up and then stayed outside for a whole 15 minutes when the temperature reached 1 below (F). I also recall being on the CZ eastbound (second week in December) and being only one of two passengers in the signtseer lounge. I hope to never forget that trip. I am so fortunate that I made the trip when I was younger and fares were lower. The assistance I received from AU members was pricelss. 

My 2012 trip on the Ocean was not as memorable, but was enjoyable.


----------



## jiml (Apr 13, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> I’ve got a fantasy trip I’d love to take, because Canada has always been one of my two favorite non-US countries. It’s only a fantasy, not even a “dream”, as I define those terms, because practically speaking there’s no chance it’ll ever happen, but I can still fantasize about it.
> 
> I’d get to Halifax from Greenville, SC, by train. See Halifax. Then do Halifax-Montreal. Lay over a few days there cuz I’ve never seen Montreal. Then any sensible Montreal-Toronto. Lay over again, maybe visit the hockey hall of fame. Then Toronto-Jasper. Lay over there a few days. Can’t beat that scenery! Then finish up Jasper-Prince Rupert. Ideally I’d do the Toronto-Jasper leg in Prestige class just to see how good it is and to say I’d done it. After that, I’d take ferries back down to the US and who cares where I go or how I do it after that?! But it’d be by train, that’s for sure!
> 
> ...


It's a great trip that you'd really enjoy. I'd forget the part about getting from Greenville to Halifax by train. That's not really possible and it would be far cheaper to fly, but the rest is do-able if not beyond your budget. Prestige can be a little pricey.


----------



## Northwestern (Apr 13, 2022)

It does sound like a fun trip. I've never taken Prestige Class, on the Canadian, but is seems to be super expensive. For example, Jasper to Vancouver on the Rocky Mountaineer, even with RM Gold Leaf service, is less than Prestige Class on the Canadian. from what I can tell. If you lay over in Toronto, Sleeper Plus class on the Canadian will be cheaper than Prestige Class, Toronto to Jasper. I've never taken Sleeper Plus.

If you were to change your itinerary, and include a flight to Vancouver, another possibility for exploring BC and Jasper could be the Rocky Mountaineer "Rainforest to Gold Rush" package. Vancouver to Whistler to Quesnel, to Jasper and the reverse. I took this one a number of years ago. Really scenic and interesting.









Rainforest to Gold Rush Classic (Eastbound)


This journey into the rugged Canadian wilderness is one you'll never forget. Spend a night in Whistler, Quesnel and the quaint town of Jasper.




is.gd


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 13, 2022)

jiml said:


> It's a great trip that you'd really enjoy. I'd forget the part about getting from Greenville to Halifax by train. That's not really possible and it would be far cheaper to fly, but the rest is do-able if not beyond your budget. Prestige can be a little pricey.


Hehe. Thx., To be honest, one reason I did even fantasize about a trip like this at all is simply to know I’d done it! And, the fact is, except for the alimony, I could find a way to afford it if I decided to do it! I don’t have that much time left, and I can’t take it with me!


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 13, 2022)

Northwestern said:


> It does sound like a fun trip. I've never taken Prestige Class, on the Canadian, but is seems to be super expensive. For example, Jasper to Vancouver on the Rocky Mountaineer, even with RM Gold Leaf service, is less than Prestige Class on the Canadian. from what I can tell. If you lay over in Toronto, Sleeper Plus class on the Canadian will be cheaper than Prestige Class, Toronto to Jasper. I've never taken Sleeper Plus.
> 
> If you were to change your itinerary, and include a flight to Vancouver, another possibility for exploring BC and Jasper could be the Rocky Mountaineer "Rainforest to Gold Rush" package. Vancouver to Whistler to Quesnel, to Jasper and the reverse. I took this one a number of years ago. Really scenic and interesting.
> 
> ...


Yeah that could work too. I did actually do a round the continent trip sorta like this a few years back. Greenville New Orleans LA Seattle Vancouver Toronto NYC Greenville. My wife flew out to Vancouver and we did that then the Canadian together as far as Edmonton and she flew home. Great trip.


----------



## PaulDobbs (Apr 14, 2022)

I did a trip from Halifax to Vancouver in 2019. I live in Fort Worth, so to get to Halifax I went Fort Worth-Chicago-New York, spent a night in New York, then took the Adirondack to Montreal. I spent 2 nights in Montreal, then rode the Ocean to Halifax.

After 2 nights in Halifax, the real adventure started, riding the Ocean to Montreal, then Corridor train 65 to Toronto. Three nights in Toronto was followed by riding the Canadian (Prestige Class) to Vancouver.

After 2 nights in Vancouver, I rode the Cascades to Seattle and the Empire Builder to Chicago. I spent a night in Chicago before riding the TE home.

I spent a ridiculous amount of money on this trip, but consider it well spent. I only hope my health allows me to go back and ride the Canadian Vancouver to Toronto. And yes, I’d spend the money for Prestige Class again.


----------



## Rambling Robert (Apr 14, 2022)

A trip across Canada, a wonderful place for vacations, is also on my fantasy/dream/bucket list. Canadians love being a good host.

As said above - going Greenville SC to NYP and roundtrip on the Ocean from Montreal looks doable. With some help with AU I could get to Halifax by bus on a convoluted route from Portland ME DownEaster.

A bus tour around Cape Brenton - from Halifax might be nice ... although I’ve never been on ANY bus tour. Best to rent a car. I’m now wondering how much “Ocean” you’ll see on ViaRail. I’ve seen most of the coast by car/ferry - Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island on the Atlantic and a glimpse of British Columbia on the Pacific ... also by car/ferry / over a fifty year period.

In June - a trip across Canada on viaRail was my dream - I’ve simplified my trip - Amtrak Boston to LA via EB/Portland ME with a two day roundtrip rental car excursion from Spokane to Banff BC Canada. When planning this trip there was (is?) a pandemic related border issue so I could reschedule the excursion to within the US if necessary.

Is having border access no longer a fantasy?


----------



## AmtrakMaineiac (Apr 14, 2022)

We did something similar over a 3 year span going PHL - Montreal - Truro NS via the Atlantic Limited then Truro to Sydney NS. 3 years later did PHL - Montreal - Vancouver and return on the Canadian. This was back in 1981 - 1984 sadly none of those trains run anymore.


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 14, 2022)

Glad to hear others would like trips like my fantasy trip too! Great minds train together!


----------



## Railspike (Apr 15, 2022)

We've been considering a trip across Canada on the Canadian in Prestige Class for some time. We can afford it, but are having issues justifying the cost. Based on your experience, what justifies the cost in your mind?
Thanks


----------



## Maglev (Apr 15, 2022)

Railspike said:


> We've been considering a trip across Canada on the Canadian in Prestige Class for some time. We can afford it, but are having issues justifying the cost. Based on your experience, what justifies the cost in your mind?
> Thanks


I think the experience of enjoying the widest bed and biggest window of any public sleeper accommodation in the world justifies the expense. Coupled with a dome lounge, incredible scenery, good food, and good service; and this is a must-do for me if I ever have the cash (my wife would rather buy a boat).

edit to add: I took the _Super Continental _from Montreal to Vancouver in 1975, and it ranks as the most scenic train trip I have taken. I had an Open Section lower, which I believe is the second-widest bed available (wider than the lower in a Bedroom on Amtrak).


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 15, 2022)

I would agree with Maglev that many aspects of the level of service are enough justification. You can be confident you’re getting good quality. But even though it’s a luxury, I’d also add that as long as you know you can afford it, that alone puts it at least a little in the category of buying yourself a present. And I don’t think that ever needs to be justified!  You can’t take it with you.


----------



## Northwestern (Apr 15, 2022)

I most definitely agree, Dadonatrain. I'm getting on in years (I'm in my 70's) and I think about the day when long vacation trips may not be possible, due to health and physical activity restraints. I only take one yearly vacation, so I splurge whenever I can! Upper levels of train accommodations, high end lodging along the way, and little restrictions in spending if reasonable. However, I was planning a trip to Whitefish, this summer, but I had to cancel due to health concerns for one person in my group. I was thinking of staying at a very expensive lodge in Whitefish. They wanted around $400 a night (peak summer season) and a 3 day minimum stay. That was unreasonable, to say the least.

My first trip trip on the Rocky Mountaineer, Vancouver to Jasper, was really expensive. I told myself just a "one time only" excursion. Well, I count 6 trips on the RM so far. It was worth it. You do save on some of the lodging when it's part of the package. Examples are the Jasper Park Lodge, in Jasper, and the Chateau Lake Louise in Lake Louise. I noted the room costs, for each, if they weren't included in the package. Very exorbitant room rates.

I wonder if Amtrak could do the same. Offer, for a little more in cost, a 4 star hotel or lodge as part of an Amtrak travel package, most likely on a LD train route. I guess, because Amtrak is a govt. or "semi-private" service, it wouldn't be possible.


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 15, 2022)

Wow! This is so cool! When I first posted my fantasy train trip msg, I never imagined I’d get so many neat replies from so many others who feel, one way or another, just like I do! 

Such neat replies make me wish even more that I could maybe find someone else to take a trip like this with. I’m 78, and I despair, some days, especially after three years of Covid-inspired cabin fever, that my time is running out. Maybe I should just put my money where my mouth is and do what I suggested in reply to Railspike about how to justify it. I can’t take it with me, so what the heck! I’m just gonna buy myself a present and take one last trip of a lifetime! To heck with the alimony it’ll cost me!  (If you don’t get that part, see the last paragraph of my first post!)

Anybody wanna go along?


----------



## Rasputin (Apr 15, 2022)

I have ridden the Canadian a number of times years ago, both the full trip (Montreal - Vancouver in my case) and some partial trips. I would much prefer to use my funds to be able to afford multiple trips on the train as a regular sleeper passenger than one expensive trip in Prestige Class.


----------



## jiml (Apr 15, 2022)

The best space on VIA for an older couple travelling together is what used to be called a drawing room. They have two lower berths, forming an L-shaped sleeping area, and one upper. They're found in Chateau sleepers and non-Prestige Park cars - neither of which are usually offered on the Canadian during peak seasons. This encourages the sale of Prestige class. They are offered on the Hudson Bay service, sold as a Cabin for 3, and are scheduled to return to the Ocean, sold as a Large Cabin for 2. With the reconfiguration of the Ocean's Budd consist though, the Park car is impractical leaving a Chateau as the only option.


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 15, 2022)

I have too, Rasputin, and in fact I agree with you. All things considered, I’ve done Tor-Van in first class more than once and it’s perfectly acceptable. In fact, on my most recent trip, at dinner I shared a table with a couple traveling in Prestige and they were having dinner from exactly the same menu as I was. And of course the same kitchen. The only diff I saw (I did not quiz them on it; I thought that would have been rude of me) was that they had been served an appetizer I was not offered. 

In defense of my original msg, I offer only the weak excuse “Hey! It’s my fantasy!” . I don’t suggest for a moment that the cost could be justified at all! I’m only sayin’ if I get told to get my affairs in order, and I can only do one final splurge train trip, something like this would be on my list of possibilities. I might also put the Orient Express on the list, and maybe consider renting a costume and going as F. Scott if I could get my wife to go along as Zelda! That’d be a hoot!


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 15, 2022)

jiml said:


> The best space on VIA for an older couple travelling together is what used to be called a drawing room. They have two lower berths, forming an L-shaped sleeping area, and one upper. They're found in Chateau sleepers and non-Prestige Park cars - neither of which are usually offered on the Canadian during peak seasons. This encourages the sale of Prestige class. They are offered on the Hudson Bay service, sold as a Cabin for 3, and are scheduled to return to the Ocean, sold as a Large Cabin for 2. With the reconfiguration of the Ocean's Budd consist though, the Park car is impractical leaving a Chateau as the only option.


This is good to know. Thx for this.

I just learned something about the Prestige bedroom design that takes a bit of the bloom off the rose for me, so to speak. Apparently, the bed is one mattress, built as a Murphy bed, and only one side of the bed is open to the rest of the cabin. So one of you would have to climb over the other to “go potty” in the middle of the night! Not ideal at all, IMO, esp at our age!


----------



## JontyMort (Apr 15, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> I’ve got a fantasy trip I’d love to take, because Canada has always been one of my two favorite non-US countries. It’s only a fantasy, not even a “dream”, as I define those terms, because practically speaking there’s no chance it’ll ever happen, but I can still fantasize about it.
> 
> I’d get to Halifax from Greenville, SC, by train. See Halifax. Then do Halifax-Montreal. Lay over a few days there cuz I’ve never seen Montreal. Then any sensible Montreal-Toronto. Lay over again, maybe visit the hockey hall of fame. Then Toronto-Jasper. Lay over there a few days. Can’t beat that scenery! Then finish up Jasper-Prince Rupert. Ideally I’d do the Toronto-Jasper leg in Prestige class just to see how good it is and to say I’d done it. After that, I’d take ferries back down to the US and who cares where I go or how I do it after that?! But it’d be by train, that’s for sure!
> 
> ...


I would highly recommend the Inside Passage ferry from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy, but the art will be timing the Jasper to PR train to connect with the ferry, and then connecting from the ferry to the bus that runs from Port Hardy to Campbell River. That one runs three days a week, and I don’t know if it serves the ferry terminal (which isn’t in Port Hardy itself, but at Bear Cove) - albeit it’s within taxi range.
South of Campbell River, you’re back in the real world and there should be a daily bus.
I don’t think there is a coastal ferry all the way south of Port Hardy, so getting to Seattle via either Victoria or Vancouver would be a roundabout way. 
The direct SeaCat from Victoria to Seattle wasn’t running when we were there, but hopefully that was a Covid aberration.
We happened to coincide with the Canadian in Jasper…


----------



## Bob Dylan (Apr 15, 2022)

Railspike said:


> We've been considering a trip across Canada on the Canadian in Prestige Class for some time. We can afford it, but are having issues justifying the cost. Based on your experience, what justifies the cost in your mind?
> Thanks


Being wealthy enough to go " First Class"!


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 16, 2022)

I've done the full Canadian twice, once with my mother and once with my son. Both trips were in February/early March, when the fares were still low but the days were a bit longer, if not warmer. Both trips were amazing and well worth the standard sleeper room cost. I'd always dreamed of doing the Canadian and very happy that we did it. Both trips had few passengers so we all got to know each other and had a very relaxed single seating for dinner. 

We're not rich but we're comfortable and can afford such things. For people with somewhat higher assets, more power to them if they want to splurge on Prestige class. And even if it is a big hit on the wallet, perhaps you can think of it as a (non-deductible) donation to the VIA Rail Dome Car preservation society


----------



## Northwestern (Apr 16, 2022)

********************************************

I had a chance, a number of years ago, to take the "Royal Hudson" before its demise. Vancouver to Squamish. It was a tourist jaunt with a brief lunch served when we got to Squamish. A scenic journey and I hope the Royal Hudson excursion train will return..






BC Rail Royal Hudson - Video Search Results


The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.




is.gd





I would like, some day, to rent a car in Vancouver and drive up to Squamish. It looks like an interesting town with a number of things to do and see.









14 Amazing Things to do in Squamish B.C.


There are a ton of amazing things to do in Squamish BC and the journey to get there is as beautiful as the destination. That’s because you drive through




is.gd


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 16, 2022)

Has anyone taken the Canadian in the last few months? Curious how well the traditionally high standards of service have been holding up. Both times I did it, we were accompanied by a passenger service director that took care of problems quickly. He/she popped into the Park car about an hour before dinner with a free drink service. The first night was bubbly, the second local wines, and the third local beers. While the servings were small they kept refilling them generously. They also served some small hors d'oeuvres, nothing remarkable but a nice touch. 

One thing to consider about Prestige class. In an Amtrak full-size bedroom, the lower bed is larger and can accomodate two reasonably friendly people. The VIA Rail "Bedroom for Two" is well designed and comfortable, but it is smaller than the Amtrak bedroom, and the beds are true bunks. The Prestige class is the only way to get a bed that sleeps two. Not sure if that alone justifies the cost (as if it could be justified) but something to consider. 

Finally, for anyone thinking about the trip and hasn't taken it, may I recommend this excellent if long video. Don't get turned off by the somewhat dated music, stick with it at least through the departure scene about two minutes in. It really captures the essence of the trip, where you spend long hours just staring at the scenery.


----------



## BarbW (Apr 16, 2022)

My husband and I did our bucket list traincation in summer 2019: WAS to NYP, Maple Leaf to Toronto, VIA Prestige class to Vancouver, Cascades to PDX, Empire Builder Portland to CHI, Cardinal back to northern Virginia. It was spectacular.
For us, the Prestige class was well worth it. The rooms are beautiful, comfortable and well appointed. Great food, beverages all day/night, wonderful views in the park car with exclusive access during the mornings and afternoons. The room was so nice that we could have stayed there all day, but the park car was fabulous, with the downstairs bar, lounge area at the end of the train, and upstairs observation seating. So we spent much of our time there.
But, the kicker in my opinion was the service. I don't know if anything has changed since the pandemic, but I have to say that Prestige set the standard for excellent customer service in travel. All of our needs were cared for, starting and ending with my husband's mobility issues that required transport between the station and train car. Prestige class car attendants catered to us constantly and were very helpful and knowledgeable.The car windows, which started out clean, were washed in Winnipeg and Jasper (hello Amtrak, are you listening?). The VIA rail people we met and got to know genuinely seemed to like their jobs. The entire experience seemed well-thought-through and top notch.
We were fortunate to be able to afford it, and would have done it again given the chance.


----------



## xzperu42 (Apr 16, 2022)

Took Prestige class in May of 2018 from Toronto to Jasper. It was 24 hours late. Since I assume everyone on this site is a rail fan in some way, I feel safe to say the trip was worth it and I would recommend it. For the general population I would be more cautions as many people simply would not enjoy the train that much in any class of service (difficult to imagine, but very, very true).

As for the OP and his dream journey... I would suggest taking The Canadien to Jasper and then one of the Rocky Mountaineer services on to Vancouver (either via Banff or the one via Whistler). It will only add a few thousand dollars more to the price 

For those that have been on Prestige Class recently I'm curious how the rooms are holding up? Is VIA slowly letting them decay, or are they replacing carpet when needed, and fixing this and that? Did they ever replace the in-room minibar with the correct refrigerators? When the cars were rebuilt, they mistakenly installed coolers, not refrigerators... so when I traveled it was not stocked.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 17, 2022)

Good review and photos. However, I couldn't help but notice that the front row in the Dome is now reserved for Prestige passengers. I mean, cuddling in bed with my beloved while drinking unlimited free booze is nice, but sitting in the dome car front row is essential. Nothing less than Prestige for me!


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 17, 2022)

Just for "fun", I looked up Prestige fares for Toronto-Vancouver one way. Next week, they are C$12,000 for two people. In darkest late January 2023, they drop to - wait for it - C$11,000 for two.

I might also note that Prestige was sold out on every train in July.

The trips I took in the early 2010's were just over C$1,100 for two in a Sleeper Plus cabin.



That was for one of two people.


----------



## dadonatrain (Apr 17, 2022)

Hey, Brian, I never said my fantasy could be cost-justified! It’s a fantasy! . In fact, you’re exactly right.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 17, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Has anyone taken the Canadian in the last few months? Curious how well the traditionally high standards of service have been holding up. Both times I did it, we were accompanied by a passenger service director that took care of problems quickly. He/she popped into the Park car about an hour before dinner with a free drink service. The first night was bubbly, the second local wines, and the third local beers. While the servings were small they kept refilling them generously. They also served some small hors d'oeuvres, nothing remarkable but a nice touch.
> 
> One thing to consider about Prestige class. In an Amtrak full-size bedroom, the lower bed is larger and can accomodate two reasonably friendly people. The VIA Rail "Bedroom for Two" is well designed and comfortable, but it is smaller than the Amtrak bedroom, and the beds are true bunks. The Prestige class is the only way to get a bed that sleeps two. Not sure if that alone justifies the cost (as if it could be justified) but something to consider.
> 
> Finally, for anyone thinking about the trip and hasn't taken it, may I recommend this excellent if long video. Don't get turned off by the somewhat dated music, stick with it at least through the departure scene about two minutes in. It really captures the essence of the trip, where you spend long hours just staring at the scenery.



Thanks for the video. I am taking the trip early next month with my 26 year old son. We are staying in a section and hope to get access to the Park Car. 

Hopefully the service will be similar as you experienced. My son will be very happy if section passengers also get to sample local beers and wine.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 17, 2022)

Sections are a real bargain. I'm not sure what the Park car rules will be then. They are pretty strict in the summer but I've heard they relax them a lot depending on how full the train is during off peak. In any case you should be able to go to the Park car middays and evenings, and the very nice bar will be open. And when the Park dome is closed, I think you can also use the coach dome and get drinks and snacks from the coach cafe attendant. The coach dome is surprisingly empty, I don't think they get many coach passengers. In any case you'll have a great time. Just don't book any flights out of Vancouver for at least 24 hours after!

Looking forward to your trip report.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 17, 2022)

Railspike said:


> We've been considering a trip across Canada on the Canadian in Prestige Class for some time. We can afford it, but are having issues justifying the cost. Based on your experience, what justifies the cost in your mind?
> Thanks


Nothing justifies the cost of Prestige. It flat is not worth it.

You get the same meals, the same views, much of the same access (all the access if on the off season) with Sleeper Plus at about 1/3rd the cost of Prestige.

By all means, take a trip on the Canadian, it is a wonderful train. But do it in Sleeper Plus.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 17, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Sections are a real bargain. I'm not sure what the Park car rules will be then. They are pretty strict in the summer but I've heard they relax them a lot depending on how full the train is during off peak. In any case you should be able to go to the Park car middays and evenings, and the very nice bar will be open. And when the Park dome is closed, I think you can also use the coach dome and get drinks and snacks from the coach cafe attendant. The coach dome is surprisingly empty, I don't think they get many coach passengers. In any case you'll have a great time. Just don't book any flights out of Vancouver for at least 24 hours after!
> 
> Looking forward to your trip report.


The absolute Park car restrictions during daylight hours are only during peak season. Sleeper Plus officially has full access during the off season, the only restriction is the first 1-3 rows in the dome are reserved for Prestige.

During the high season there is always at least one Skyline for Sleeper Plus in addition to the one for coach. Even in the off season, there is usually a Sleeper Plus Skyline, although it is often not staffed.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 17, 2022)

jiml said:


> The best space on VIA for an older couple travelling together is what used to be called a drawing room. They have two lower berths, forming an L-shaped sleeping area, and one upper. They're found in Chateau sleepers and non-Prestige Park cars - neither of which are usually offered on the Canadian during peak seasons. This encourages the sale of Prestige class. They are offered on the Hudson Bay service, sold as a Cabin for 3, and are scheduled to return to the Ocean, sold as a Large Cabin for 2. With the reconfiguration of the Ocean's Budd consist though, the Park car is impractical leaving a Chateau as the only option.


Unconverted non-Prestige Chateaus are largely gone from the Canadian. The normal Sleeper Plus cars are almost exclusively Manors that do not have a Drawing Room ("Cabin for 3") although they do have the somewhat larger Compartment (room F, sold as a regular "Cabin for 2"). This especially applies in the off season, when consists are much shorter and there are plenty of Manors to go around.

The Canadian runs exclusively Prestige Park cars in all seasons, that have Prestige rooms and an Accessible room. They no longer have Drawing Rooms. Unconverted Parks do not run on it under normal conditions any time of year. That is not to say an unconverted Park may not be pressed into service if a Prestige Park is unexpectedly bad ordered, though I am unaware of any actual instances of it.


----------



## xzperu42 (Apr 17, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Nothing justifies the cost of Prestige. It flat is not worth it.
> 
> You get the same meals, the same views, much of the same access (all the access if on the off season) with Sleeper Plus at about 1/3rd the cost of Prestige.
> 
> By all means, take a trip on the Canadian, it is a wonderful train. But do it in Sleeper Plus.



Let me put it another way. A few weeks ago I asked my wife if she would like to take The Canadian again from Toronto to Jasper and her reply was “In Prestige Class”?


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 17, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Nothing justifies the cost of Prestige. It flat is not worth it.



Definitely agree for those of us looking up at it. But plenty of people looking down and just get the best available option regardless of price. Note previous comment that Prestige appears to be sold out most of the summer.

I had the chance to take some cruises during the 2008/2010 depression and got some incredible values. But now I look at the upper class lines, and the fancy options on mid priced lines like NCL and am amazed at what they can charge. My sister takes exactly one cruise a year on the ACL (American) line that start at $6k pp for a week and go up quickly from there. She knows what she likes and that's her annual splurge. 

If VIA has figured out how to run a luxury train, more power to them. Wish we could figure out how to keep one running in the US!


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 17, 2022)

Well, as a straight value proposition, the cost is not worth the value add, IMHO. What you actually get that you don't get in Sleeper Plus is a bigger bed, a tv, first crack at dinner reservations, hors d'oeuvres and free liquor. Plus exclusive access during daytime to the Park during peak season (off peak the Park is open to Sleeper Plus). Hors d'oeuvres, free booze and a tv I wouldn't use aren't worth thousands of dollars to me.

Amtrak needs to match the service quality and consistency in Sleeper Plus. They are light years away from that.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 17, 2022)

Amen


----------



## HenryK (Apr 18, 2022)

I took the Canadian several times pre-Prestige, and each time the front seats in the Park dome were taken over by squatters who left their books and coats on the seats to mark possession. My wife wouldn't let me bellyache to the attendant. Last month I attempted to book the accessible room in the Park car for a trip from Vancouver to Toronto, but was subjected to a chase-the-phone game by VIA agents who had no idea how to do that. Gave up the idea.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 18, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Well, as a straight value proposition, the cost is not worth the value add, IMHO. What you actually get that you don't get in Sleeper Plus is a bigger bed, a tv, first crack at dinner reservations, hors d'oeuvres and free liquor. Plus exclusive access during daytime to the Park during peak season (off peak the Park is open to Sleeper Plus). Hors d'oeuvres, free booze and a tv I wouldn't use aren't worth thousands of dollars to me.
> 
> Amtrak needs to match the service quality and consistency in Sleeper Plus. They are light years away from that.



How many Prestige rooms are in the Park Car?

and. …. Are they only in the Park Car?

I am trying to figure out how many Prestige passengers will be on my May 6 Vancouver departure and May 10 Jasper departure.

I think my section is in the closest car one can be to the Park Car.

Does this mean the car or maybe cars between my section and the Park Car are all Prestige rooms?


----------



## jiml (Apr 18, 2022)

As mentioned by @zephyr17 above, VIA has converted some Chateau sleepers to Prestige. The last consist I saw (about a month ago) had only one of these, between the Park car and the remainder of the train.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 18, 2022)

jiml said:


> As mentioned by @zephyr17 above, VIA has converted some Chateau sleepers to Prestige. The last consist I saw (about a month ago) had only one of these, between the Park car and the remainder of the train.


Thanks for the reply. 

Do you know the number of Prestige Rooms available in each of the Park Car and Chateau Car.

I found some information on the cars on the Via Website but I don’t see information or diagrams indicating the number of Prestige Rooms. The Park Car information I found indicated three double bedrooms one triple bedroom. The Chateau show a mixture of everything.


----------



## jiml (Apr 18, 2022)

This rather fuzzy image should give some perspective on the Chateau. I didn't find a floorplan either. If you look at the window configuration it's not hard to tell where the original roomettes and drawing room were located.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 18, 2022)

jiml said:


> This rather fuzzy image should give some perspective on the Chateau. I didn't find a floorplan either. If you look at the window configuration it's not hard to tell where the original roomettes and drawing room were located.
> 
> View attachment 28139


So six rooms plus maybe three in the Park Car. Max Prestige pax count would be 18 if all are sold out. I think they only opened up for sale around the same time they opened up the section I booked, which was not that long ago. There should be plenty of opportunities to get a seat in the Park Car and meet fellow travellers.


----------



## jiml (Apr 18, 2022)

Marbleski said:


> So six rooms plus maybe three in the Park Car. Max Prestige pax count would be 18 if all are sold out. I think they only opened up for sale around the same time they opened up the section I booked, which was not that long ago. There should be plenty of opportunities to get a seat in the Park Car and meet fellow travellers.


They add another car for the summer, increasing capacity to 15 rooms IIRC. Having travelled several times in May myself, I doubt it will affect your dates. May is an ideal time to go - still some snow in the mountains, kids are usually in school and the cost is about half-way between low and peak seasons.


----------



## xzperu42 (Apr 18, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## fdaley (Apr 18, 2022)

dadonatrain said:


> I’ve got a fantasy trip I’d love to take, because Canada has always been one of my two favorite non-US countries. It’s only a fantasy, not even a “dream”, as I define those terms, because practically speaking there’s no chance it’ll ever happen, but I can still fantasize about it.
> 
> I’d get to Halifax from Greenville, SC, by train. See Halifax. Then do Halifax-Montreal. Lay over a few days there cuz I’ve never seen Montreal. Then any sensible Montreal-Toronto. Lay over again, maybe visit the hockey hall of fame. Then Toronto-Jasper. Lay over there a few days. Can’t beat that scenery! Then finish up Jasper-Prince Rupert. Ideally I’d do the Toronto-Jasper leg in Prestige class just to see how good it is and to say I’d done it. After that, I’d take ferries back down to the US and who cares where I go or how I do it after that?! But it’d be by train, that’s for sure!
> 
> ...



I'm late to the conversation here, but definitely I think you should try to move this trip, or at least some of it, from the realm of fantasy into reality.

We have made the trip from Toronto to Vancouver (or vice versa) four times in the past decade in Sleeper Plus class and loved it -- even when the train was absurdly late. As these trips were all in the winter, we shared the dome, lounge and dining areas with Prestige passengers and gained a pretty good sense of what that class offers.

If you'll only make the trip once and can figure out how to afford it, I'm sure Prestige class would deliver a wonderful, memorable experience. The Prestige rooms are beautifully redone and have huge windows, the service is first-rate, and the cocktails look splendid.

But if you can't or don't want to spend that kind of money, you can still have a great trip in Sleeper Plus at a fraction of the cost. On our last trip in 2019, we had two lower berths and an upper -- wider, more comfortable beds than anything on Amtrak -- and we ate the same entrees and desserts as Prestige passengers and had full access to the Park car except for the first two or three rows of seats in the dome. We also had the use of the Skyline dome several cars ahead.

To me, the Canadian is the best long-distance rail travel experience left in North America, and I credit VIA for maintaining a level of on-board service that preserves the sense of being on a legendary train.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 18, 2022)

@fdaley you nailed it.


----------



## Cal (Apr 18, 2022)

fdaley said:


> To me, the Canadian is the best long-distance rail travel experience left in North America, and I credit VIA for maintaining a level of on-board service that preserves the sense of being on a legendary train.


Just if Amtrak could do the same and make their long-distance trains special again. Maybe in another lifetime..


----------



## fdaley (Apr 19, 2022)

Cal said:


> Just if Amtrak could do the same and make their long-distance trains special again. Maybe in another lifetime..



There was a period roughly 10 to 20 years ago when I thought Amtrak was really trying to do this with the Coast Starlight. The Pacific parlor car was a big part of it, but the whole train seemed to be held to a higher standard of on-board service. It wasn't in the same league as the Canadian, but within the context of Amtrak, the Starlight definitely had a bit of a mystique. I didn't see much evidence of this on my last ride on it in 2019, though.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 19, 2022)

fdaley said:


> There was a period roughly 10 to 20 years ago when I thought Amtrak was really trying to do this with the Coast Starlight. The Pacific parlor car was a big part of it, but the whole train seemed to be held to a higher standard of on-board service. It wasn't in the same league as the Canadian, but within the context of Amtrak, the Starlight definitely had a bit of a mystique. I didn't see much evidence of this on my last ride on it in 2019, though.


That was when Amtrak West was a separate business line run by Brian Rosenwald. They were emphasizing customer service excellence, especially on Amtrak West's only LD train, the Starlight.

Unfortunately, they reorganized a long time ago, Amtrak West was reorganized out of existence. Brian Rosenwald was ultimately forced out, and the Starlight gradually devolved back to being a regular, mediocre, Amtrak LD. The final blow was Anderson pulling the PPC as one of his first acts.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 20, 2022)

Speaking of the Canadian, when I booked my trips around 2008 and 2011, VIA rail had a special deal section that listed last minute (i.e. next six weeks or so) specials on both regional trains and all classes of service on the Canadian. I've looked around and haven't found anything like it. They have the 25% off Tuesdays but I think it is only 10% off sleeper IIRC, which isn't much of a bargain. Does anyone know if they are still offering any larger discounts off season?


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 20, 2022)

Brian Battuello said:


> Speaking of the Canadian, when I booked my trips around 2008 and 2011, VIA rail had a special deal section that listed last minute (i.e. next six weeks or so) specials on both regional trains and all classes of service on the Canadian. I've looked around and haven't found anything like it. They have the 25% off Tuesdays but I think it is only 10% off sleeper IIRC, which isn't much of a bargain. Does anyone know if they are still offering any larger discounts off season?


The Sleeper Plus sale page, which is what you are referring to, was essentially a "distressed inventory" sale for select departures, accommodations, and segments, and inventory was released to it, as you point out, about 6 to 8 weeks out.. It got you about 40% off of the undiscounted fare for the fare season it was offered in.

While any accommodation could show up on it, the ones that showed most often were berths.

I doubt it will come back this year. It might at the end of summer. That is just a guess.

VIA's overall pricing, aside from the Sleeper Plus and Discount Tuesday distressed inventory sales, is much simpler and easier to parse than Amtrak's yield management "bucket" system.

There are two fare classes non-discount and discount. Discounted fares have some some not very onerous restrictions and inventory allocated to "discount" is limited.

There are three fare seasons, peak, shoulder, and off peak. I know off peak starts on November 1 because I usually take it in the Fall. Shoulder starts about mid September. Not sure of the spring dates. March is still "off peak" though, my fare for my recent trip was clearly based on off peak.

Shoulder season fares are not that far off of peak fare. Maybe like 10% lower at most, maybe not even that much. Off peak is a LOT lower, like 25%.

An off peak discount fare is like 35% lower than a peak undiscounted fare.

The best deal is to be had by riding it once a year, the full route, in a room. It will cost more than the $1000 CAD that puts you in the "Privilege" elite tier of VIA's Preference frequent traveler program. Privilege level gets you a 50% off (undiscounted) coupon for Sleeper Plus. The only catch is there has to be "discount" inventory available for the departure you want.

I just did a round trip Vancouver-Toronto-Vancouver using that coupon for a price that I could not have gotten near on Amtrak these days for an equivalent length trip (8 nights).


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 20, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> The Sleeper Plus sale page, which is what you are referring to, was essentially a "distressed inventory" sale for select departures, accommodations, and segments, and inventory was released to it, as you point out, about 6 to 8 weeks out.. It got you about 40% off of the undiscounted fare for the fare season it was offered in.
> 
> While any accommodation could show up on it, the ones that showed most often were berths.
> 
> ...



I looked up my points total and I have 975 points.

Is there any perks at this level?


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 20, 2022)

Marbleski said:


> I looked up my points total and I have 975 points.
> 
> Is there any perks at this level?


It is a $1000 CAD spend in a year (April 1 to March 31 is the qualifying period) that gets you Privilege and the coupon.

It sounds like you spent $975 CAD at some point, since the points earn at the basic level is $1 = 1 point.

If you had status, they extended the status through COVID. My last trip before March was November 2019, so the coupon I used was earned then.

It is a hard cutoff, so a $975 spend doesn't get you there, but was just $25 short.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 20, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> It is a $1000 CAD spend in a year (April 1 to March 31 is the qualifying period) that gets you Privilege and the coupon.
> 
> It sounds like you spent $975 CAD at some point, since the points earn at the basic level is $1 = 1 point.
> 
> ...


My bad. I missed a digit when I looked up my profile and found the points. 

I actually have 1975 points. Eyesight is not too good at reading the print on my small phone screen lol.

I had points for signing up in 2016 and taking the Ocean.

My latest two trips in Feb were Halifax Ottawa return in a room on the Ocean. I guess my return fare was less than 1000.

I may be just short again after this trip.


----------



## zephyr17 (Apr 20, 2022)

Were the trips this last February, 2022? Then they were before the end of the 21/22 qualifying year on March 31st, so they will not have affected anything yet.

If they were in February 2022, you will almost certainly get Privilege status and the coupons on May 1st. They are dropping the qualification for Privilege this year to $500 because of COVID.


----------



## Marbleski (Apr 20, 2022)

zephyr17 said:


> Were the trips this last February, 2022? Then they were before the end of the 21/22 qualifying year on March 31st, so they will not have affected anything yet.
> 
> If they were in February 2022, you will almost certainly get Privilege status and the coupons on May 1st. They are dropping the qualification for Privilege this year to $500 because of COVID.



Excellent news.

Yes the trips were in Feb 2022. 

The discount might lead to a fall trip on the Ocean to see my son in Ottawa. Lol


----------



## fdaley (Apr 21, 2022)

Pre-pandemic, VIA often had a sale in late November for winter departures on the Canadian, with discounts in the range of 40 percent on Sleeper Plus. The inventory available at these discounted prices seemed to vary by departure, depending on how well bookings had gone up to that point.

Another thing to keep in mind is that VIA allows stopovers. So on a couple of our trips, we were able to break the trip in Jasper and continue on the next departure (i.e., three days later) with the same type of accommodation using a through Toronto-Vancouver fare, which was considerably less than paying separate point-to-point fares for each segment. However, at least one year we were not able to do this with the sale fare, as there were no spaces available at the sale price on the trains before or after in the period we were able to travel. And of course, there are only two departures per week from which to choose.


----------



## Brian Battuello (Apr 21, 2022)

All very good information, thanks very much. I don't think I'll be doing it again any time soon. I was lucky to do it with my mother and then with my son. My spouse isn't interested and she won't let me do it with a girlfriend  . Anyone that hasn't done it should seriously consider it, perhaps next winter when there might be some sort of sale and/or the covid thing will have resolved itself one way or another. 

Anyway, great memories and glad to have the youTube videos to watch!


----------

