# Amtrak Thanksgiving extras



## NE-Traveler (Nov 14, 2017)

I'm planning on heading up to NLC for thanksgiving this year. I noted on Amtrak's website that they are planning on doing holiday extras (as denoted by train numbers 1064 and up (excluding Acela numbers)) and that some of the extras will be operated using MARC or NJT equipment.

The holiday shows that commuter equipment trains between WAS and NYP only - and running only on Sunday.

With my train on Wednesday to NLC, should I assume that my train will be an Amtrak equipment trainset or is there a chance that it might be a MARC trainset with an Amfleet cafe slapped onto the end of it (as can be seen in some Youtube videos)?

I also heard that now and again they may use extra Acela equipment on the extras. Any thoughts on this as well?

Tnx.


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## Ryan (Nov 14, 2017)

No chance that it will be MARC equipment. The commuter agencies need it to support their service on Wednesday.


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## jis (Nov 14, 2017)

Availability of extra Acela equipment on Wednesday would be somewhat surprising. But at Amtrak anything is possible. Never say never.


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## Acela150 (Nov 14, 2017)

The Commuter Cars run on Sunday only and as mentioned by yourself between NYP and DC only.

Of note there are several extra Acela trains between BOS and NYP on Wednesday.

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## Lonestar648 (Nov 15, 2017)

Since Sunday is usually the busiest day of the Thanksgiving weekend, it appears Amtrak is trying to use every possible car in the NEC and upper Midwest. The other days would just be Amtrak equipment.


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## the_traveler (Nov 15, 2017)

When I lived in KIN, that was my impression also.

The many extras were on Sunday, and that was when they also utilized the commuter equipment. All other days were Amtrak equipment only.


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## PVD (Nov 15, 2017)

MARC does have a small pool of surplus cars that they rent/lease. The LIRR used some this summer, and is committed for more cars over the next few summers. I don't believe MARC is running them at present, they may make up a set or 2 for the holiday.


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## Ryan (Nov 15, 2017)

Like every transit agency everywhere, MARC runs everything with wheels that Wednesday.


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## PVD (Nov 15, 2017)

I thought the MARC IIA were not used, but if they are put out on Weds, it would make sense.....


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## NE-Traveler (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback all. So how many old cars does Amtrak pull out of storage for this day?


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## jis (Nov 15, 2017)

What old cars? [emoji848]

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## Lonestar648 (Nov 19, 2017)

There are the protection cars, and those in for maintenance like at Beech Grove, but don't think Amtrak has functioning cars just sitting around,


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## Acela150 (Nov 19, 2017)

Ryan said:


> Like every transit agency everywhere, MARC runs everything with wheels that Wednesday.


Even golf carts??







the_traveler said:


> When I lived in KIN, that was my impression also.
> 
> The many extras were on Sunday, and that was when they also utilized the commuter equipment. All other days were Amtrak equipment only.


It's truly interesting how Thanksgiving train moves have changed over the years.

A little over 10 years ago it wasn't uncommon for trains to appear out of no where and the question would arise.. What train was that?? Bottom line being that Amtrak would run extra sections of a train. So for instance train 1234 would leave DC at 12pm and was full so Amtrak would run a second train 1234 10 minutes behind it. These days, Amtrak runs longer trains rather then extra sections. I'll guess that has to do with crew availability.. Either way you still see Commuter Equipment on Sundays.


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## PVD (Nov 20, 2017)

Tues and Weds on the NEC there are some extras running....as well as Sunday, and Sunday is usually when the NJT and Marc sets have usually run.


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## Anderson (Nov 20, 2017)

Acela150 said:


> Ryan said:
> 
> 
> > Like every transit agency everywhere, MARC runs everything with wheels that Wednesday.
> ...


I think Amtrak may also have gotten better at timetabling the extras. I remember seeing timetables in a few years where you'll have a Regional and a Regional Extra chasing one another down the Corridor about 10 minutes apart. For example, 129/1173 and 95/1195 are on timetables with very similar schedules (though 1173 skips Metropark and Aberdeen). 143/1141 is another example of this.

Interesting note: Some of the Holiday Extra trains seem to be timetabled about 30 minutes slower than the corresponding Regionals while others hew pretty closely to the timekeeping. I'm guessing that either there were some slotting issues (quite possible in a few areas) or that there are different sets with different acceleration/top speed profiles.


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## Palmetto (Nov 20, 2017)

What we DON'T see anymore is MBTA equipment running between Boston and New Haven.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2017)

From what I've seen some of the extras are hitting additional stops - Aberdeen, Newark Delaware, Newark Airport, Metropark, etc.


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## jis (Nov 20, 2017)

Anderson said:


> Interesting note: Some of the Holiday Extra trains seem to be timetabled about 30 minutes slower than the corresponding Regionals while others hew pretty closely to the timekeeping. I'm guessing that either there were some slotting issues (quite possible in a few areas) or that there are different sets with different acceleration/top speed profiles.


I suppose the NJT Arrows limitation of 90mph shows up in the longer schedules.


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## PVD (Nov 20, 2017)

You are probably right on point. The extras that show no services on Sunday (brown box) are the ones with the extended running times. That doesn't seem to occur on the extras that are run with Amtrak or MARC cars.


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## Acela150 (Nov 20, 2017)

jis said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting note: Some of the Holiday Extra trains seem to be timetabled about 30 minutes slower than the corresponding Regionals while others hew pretty closely to the timekeeping. I'm guessing that either there were some slotting issues (quite possible in a few areas) or that there are different sets with different acceleration/top speed profiles.
> ...


Correct. Actually I think the arrows are limited to 80. I’ll try to remember to double check that.

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## chakk (Nov 20, 2017)

> A little over 10 years ago it wasn't uncommon for trains to appear out of no where and the question would arise.. What train was that?? Bottom line being that Amtrak would run extra sections of a train. So for instance train 1234 would leave DC at 12pm and was full so Amtrak would run a second train 1234 10 minutes behind it. These days, Amtrak runs longer trains rather then extra sections. I'll guess that has to do with crew availability.. Either way you still see Commuter Equipment on Sundays.


If extra sections of a timetabled train are being run, then the first train and all extra section except the last should be displaying green flags on the lead locomotive.

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## CCC1007 (Nov 20, 2017)

chakk said:


> > A little over 10 years ago it wasn't uncommon for trains to appear out of no where and the question would arise.. What train was that?? Bottom line being that Amtrak would run extra sections of a train. So for instance train 1234 would leave DC at 12pm and was full so Amtrak would run a second train 1234 10 minutes behind it. These days, Amtrak runs longer trains rather then extra sections. I'll guess that has to do with crew availability.. Either way you still see Commuter Equipment on Sundays.
> 
> 
> If extra sections of a timetabled train are being run, then the first train and all extra section except the last should be displaying green flags on the lead locomotive.
> ...


Or green lights on the locomotive(s)


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## Palmetto (Nov 21, 2017)

I don't think they do lights and flags on Amtrak, do they?


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## MikefromCrete (Nov 21, 2017)

I don't think there are many railroad operators who use white and green flags and lights anymore. The advent of radio communications and centralized dispatcher have done away with the flags and lights.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2017)

Even if it were still procedure, they aren't actually running extra sections, they are running "extra trains". and they are assigned numbers and listed in the timetable in advance.


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## jis (Nov 21, 2017)

Yeah, as far as I can tell, and Thirdrail can of course correct me if I am wrong, it has been a long time since Amtrak ran any "extra sections". They do run additional time tabled trains for which a separate time table is published.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2017)

Last extra sections I rode were on "Eastern Air Shuttle" They kept rolling out planes until everyone on line was on a plane. Collected fares on board. Sometimes the hours would blend.....(still doing extras for 5 o'clock when it was time for 6 o'clock) but as they went to bigger planes it was less common


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## City of Miami (Nov 21, 2017)

176 out of Roanoke had 9 coaches + engine this morning [that is 1 extra coach]. Enough leaves have fallen now that I can see it clearly from my home as it passes through CVS.This augmented consist has been normal in past years around TG and maybe 1 or 2 other occasions. But in view of the reported limitation at Roanoke, variously attributed on another thread to overnight storage space, platform or wye, one wonders how this is possible.


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## Ryan (Nov 21, 2017)

Pay attention to sources. The one that knows what they are talking about says it’s the wye, and that they are looking at an increase to 10.

Sounds to me like that’s a tight fit, but 10 can be accommodated.

If you see more than that, then they’re doing the extra work to cut the consist and wye it in pieces.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2017)

i would imagine that need be, you could probably add/drop a car with the engine swap in Washington if you cant run it all the way South.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Nov 21, 2017)

PVD said:


> Last extra sections I rode were on "Eastern Air Shuttle" They kept rolling out planes until everyone on line was on a plane. Collected fares on board. Sometimes the hours would blend.....(still doing extras for 5 o'clock when it was time for 6 o'clock) but as they went to bigger planes it was less common


*Except now, when we roll out an extra plane, it will be a jet-powered Electra.* (from a Washington Post ad I have when they retired the 1049 Constellations.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2017)

Connies, Electras, DC-9, 727, and towards the end A-300 (only Boston, not permitted to DCA at the time) If a DC-9 was the first section, the Electra was waiting in the wings (ouch). Then, when the Electras retired it was 727-DC-9. The 727-200s were around pretty much till the end of the actual shuttle...They flew for US Air and Trump also


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## west point (Nov 25, 2017)

A-300 B2Ks were the preferred plane for the shuttles as they had lower weight limits that were fine for short haul trips and not much baggage. They also served DCA ( Washington national ) as they had a very good sound profile especially when taking off to the north. AFAIK largest aircraft to ever serve DCA .


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## PVD (Nov 25, 2017)

I thought that regular service to DCA was denied using the "excuse" that the weight not distributed over a large enough area because of the arrangement of the gear. I have seen a video of a DC-10 land at DCA but that was a diversion, not a scheduled flight.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2017)

Thanks all for the info. My train was indeed a standard NEC consist - total of 8 passenger cars with one being business class. Interestingly two of the eight had reupholstered seats. Seats look nicer but with the same floors and walls, a bit odd looking.


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## PVD (Dec 4, 2017)

The cars are being refurbed in "stages" seat covers and cushions, carpet, restroom floors, wainscoting, bulkhead walls, lighting, BC curtains and cafe car service areas are done as material and schedule allows. The hoped for completion is next summer.


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