# 2020 Voting Has Begun! Registration Deadlines Begin Oct. 4 (Pro-Rail and Non-Partisan)



## Devil's Advocate (Sep 18, 2020)

*⚠ WARNING: DO NOT POST ANY NON-RAIL OR PARTISAN COMMENTARY ⚠*

Here on the forum we often complain about Amtrak but we don't always direct that energy into something useful or productive. Some of Amtrak's problems are self-inflicted but many others are due at least in part to government budgets and intervention (or lack thereof). Obviously who we vote for is based on many factors above and beyond Amtrak (and those *remain* strictly off limits on this forum) but the motivation for this thread is based on the simple understanding that people of all stripes and backgrounds can support passenger rail and the number of eligible non-voters is more than enough to tip the balance in almost any recent election.

*So let's Get Out The Pro-Rail Vote!*

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*Register to Vote Before the Deadline - First Deadline is October 4th*




Click the image above for the main story where each state's registration schedule is listed.


*Verify Your Voting Status Is Both Current and Valid - *Do not miss this step! 
This is even more important than before thanks to aggressive invalidation
*Link: Voter Registration Status | NASS


Collect and Confirm All Necessary Identification* - Move Quickly!
These rules are constantly changing and becoming more restrictive
*Link: Voter Identification Requirements | Voter ID Laws


Confirm Your Available Voting Options *- Stay Informed!
There are several options to consider so get up to speed now.
*Link: How To Vote In The 2020 Election


Voting Protections for Workers *- Know Your Rights!
It's not always easy to vote but some states provide worker protections.
*Link: State Laws on Voting Rights/Time Off to Vote - Workplace Fairness


Review Your Voting Schedule *- Early Voting Has Already Begun!
Click the image below to be taken to the main article


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 18, 2020)

For those who have voted what was your experience?

I knew I had a reasonable case for requesting an absentee ballot but the pandemic was specifically disqualified for anyone under 65 so I asked around for the best place to vote in person and was advised to visit a new location. When I arrived easy parking was available but filling up quickly. Everyone was masked properly but voters in line seemed to bunch up and spread out in a random fashion. When you made it inside they had distancing stickers and everyone around me complied without issue. Staff were masked and identification was passed through a plexiglass shield. We received a paper ballot with a printed header and a pencil to sign our names with an eraser to touch the selection screen. I would have preferred ink but the erasure selection worked fine.

After selections were made and confirmed the voting machine printed on the ballot which you then took to a collection machine. This worked well enough but it was odd to realize the collection attendant could read how everyone voted in the course of her duties. When I drove away the closest parking was nearly full and the line was twice as long as when I arrived. The whole thing took about thirty minutes but looked closer to an hour for new arrivals. My state continues to engage in numerous suppression tactics but on the plus side we were granted an extra week of in-person voting this year and it was inspiring to see lots of people showing up despite the hassle and risk.









It takes more time and costs more to vote in Texas than any other state


As millions of voters pour into polling stations across the state, a new study has found...




www.houstonchronicle.com


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 18, 2020)

Delaware is allowing pandemic absentee voting so I requested one. After receiving mine I waited about a week to open it. I had been waiting for my friend to receive hers because I had offered to drop hers off at one of the two drop off places we have in my county which are only available during “office hours”.
I finally decided to fill mine out and drop it off and take my friend’s ballot later (I’ll be getting it from her today). I checked the website and it is showing as having been received.


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## JayPea (Oct 18, 2020)

Washington has been vote-by-mail only for several years now. In times past there have not been any big statewide problems I'm aware of. I got my ballot in the mail this past week and plan to fill it out and return it this week sometime.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2020)

In Florida anyone can ask for a mail ballot, without giving any reason. You just tick a box when registering, or you can do so in yourvoters account at the Elections Supervisor's web page. Ever since I moved to Florida I have always used mail ballot, and often I have dropped it off at the Elction Commission Office in Town. It was absolutely no different for me this year. I am registered to receive mail ballots through 2024, so that happened automatically without any additional action. The ballot arrived a couple of days after Oct 1 when it was mailed to me. Dropoff at the secure dropoff box was uneventful. I was the only one there when I went to drop it off.

Close to 17% of the registered voters in this county have already voted as of 10/18. Early voting starts tomorrow Monday 10/19. A little over 40% of registered voters have requested mail in ballots in this county.


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## jiml (Oct 18, 2020)

You folks are very fortunate to have such an organized mail-in option. Mail-in voting in Canada is a virtual unknown, previously used mostly by non-residents living in the US or other countries. Our government is foraging ahead with several by-elections (filling vacant house seats) in the next month using the usual methods - all of which involve an in-person appearance at either an advance poll or on election day, all during a pandemic. Google shows "vote by mail Canada" as an increasingly popular search, so there's certainly interest in developing a more widespread system.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 18, 2020)

I've been voting by mail for many years...started out as absentee. Kept doing it because of convenience.
This year, we dropped the completed ballots at an official LA County drop box on Friday. Confirmation yesterday.
Easy!


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## Palmland (Oct 18, 2020)

Our absentee voting was flawless. Filled out on line ballot application and received the ballot with all our personal voting info on it two days later. Completed it same day and dropped it at our county election office to be sure it was received (took about 1 minute even with short conversation). The manager said it would be tabulated (scanned) on Election Day and counted electronically when polls closed at 7pm.

But, it would have been a lot easier to vote in person a couple days later when polls opened for early voting. A friend said there was no wait and were in and out in 5 minutes with votes tabulated at end of the voting process (but not counted until 7 pm on Election Day). Of course, being In a small town (although county seat) helps. Next election that’s what we‘ll do.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2020)

What I personally like about voting by mail as opposed to in a polling booth is that I can work on the ballot paper over an extended period of time, first completing the easy parts and then going off to research the harder parts, and once done I can just ship it off without having to transcribe it to the official ballot. Just my personal preference mind you.

Standing in line, if necessary, has never bothered me. I stood in an endlessly long line in 1976 to vote Indira Gandhi out in 1976 in India, after she declared a state of emergency for no good reason. But those ballots are simpler than figuring out endless State Constitution Amendments and Township Charter changes and dig up which judge did what to whom.


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## pennyk (Oct 18, 2020)

Early voting starts in Florida tomorrow. Depending on weather and lines, I am hoping to vote in person (wearing an N95 mask with a surgical mask on top of it) tomorrow, or the next day, or the next day. My sample ballot has been completed.

Jis, my decision as to which judges to retain was based on which governor appointed them.


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## JayPea (Oct 18, 2020)

jis said:


> What I personally like about voting by mail as opposed to in a polling booth is that I can work on the ballot paper over an extended period of time, first completing the easy parts and then going off to research the harder parts, and once done I can just ship it off without having to transcribe it to the official ballot. Just my personal preference mind you.



I like our voting by mail only here for that very reason. I can study those candidates and issues I am not sure on and vote for those at my leisure after I have done my research on them.

Living in a town of 500 and in a town of 2800, there never were any lines to speak of at the polls. For the few years I lived in Spokane, though, I never did encounter too long of lines. Miserable weather I always encountered. I swear it was always cold, wet, windy and snowy on Election Day. And no other time within 2 weeks before or after the election.


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## MARC Rider (Oct 19, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> For those who have voted what was your experience?



Maryland here.

We can vote absentee for any reason. I went online in August and asked for a request for a ballot, which they sent after a few weeks. I sent that in, then a couple of weeks ago, got my ballot, which I filled out right away. The state set up drop boxes all over Baltimore City, and one was only a couple of blocks from where I live, so I went over last week and dropped it off. I got an email from the elections office saying that they got it, so I've voted.

Last June, they had a similar process for the primary election. I accidentally mismarked my ballot, so I had to call the city elections office, and to my surprise, got connected to a real person pretty quickly. After she verified my identity over the phone, she said to come downtown and get a new ballot. Which I did. It was weird, back then downtown Baltimore was pretty deserted in the middle of the day. I had to wait outside the building and call up, and a nice lady came down and handed me the new ballot. I took it home, filled it out, and dropped it off in the mail.


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## WWW (Oct 19, 2020)

Minnesota early voting (9/18) about 2pm in and out in less than 10 minutes.
Don't have to futz with the mail in version meeting any post mark deadline - witness forms etc. - absentee.
Now what to do about those TV ads - lawn signs and all that voting trash that came in the mail - - -
Just how many times do these political parties think I can vote ? Ah er legally !


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## pennyk (Oct 19, 2020)

I voted in person this morning on the first day of early voting in Florida. Polls opened at 8am. I arrived around 7:45am (walking from home) and I was done a few minutes before 9am.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 19, 2020)

*Voter registration deadline for Alabama, Pennsylvania and South Dakota is today, October 19!*

For those who want to vote but have not yet registered several more deadlines are quickly approaching. If your state allows online registration I would advise acting sooner rather than later as several states have experienced sudden outages to voting websites over the last several years. Some states have extended the deadline to account for the outages while other states have simply shrugged and wished residents better luck next time. Here is the master list of voter registration deadlines. Even if your state has passed the deadline check to see if an extension has been granted by election officials or state court judges.

*Alabama: October 19, 2020.*

Alaska: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*Arizona: Extended to 5:00 p.m. local time on October 23, 2020.*

Arkansas: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

California: October 19, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in person).

Colorado: November 3, 2020.

Connecticut: October 27, 2020 or November 2, 2020 (in person).

Delaware: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

District of Columbia: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Florida: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Georgia: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Hawaii: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Idaho: November 3, 2020 (in person)

Illinois: November 3, 2020 (in person)

Indiana: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Iowa: October 24, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in person).

Kansas: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Kentucky: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Louisiana: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Maine: November 3, 2020.

Maryland: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*Massachusetts: October 24, 2020, 8:00 p.m. EDT.*

Michigan: November 3, 2020.

Minnesota: November 3, 2020 (in person).

Mississippi: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Missouri: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Montana: October 26, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in person).

*Nebraska: October 23, 2020, at 6:00 p.m. CDT (in person).*

Nevada: October 29, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in person).

New Hampshire: October 27, 2020. or November 3, 2020 (in person).

New Jersey: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

New Mexico: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

New York: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*North Carolina: October 31, 2020.*

North Dakota: Registration not required.

Ohio: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Oklahoma: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Oregon: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*Pennsylvania: October 19, 2020.*

Rhode Island: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

South Carolina: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*South Dakota: October 19, 2020.*

Tennessee: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Texas: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Utah: October 23, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in person).

Vermont: No deadline for Vermont.

Virginia: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

*Washington: October 23, 2020.*

West Virginia: Voter Registration Deadline Has Passed (See Link Below for Extensions)

Wisconsin: October 30, 2020 or November 3, 2020 (in-person).

Wyoming: November 3, 2020.









States brace for surge of voter registrations as deadlines near


Virginia, Florida, Louisiana and Pennsylvania have experienced web outages, with more states approaching registration deadlines this week.




www.politico.com





Texas managed to avoid this problem by refusing to allow online registrations and shutting everything down a full month before the election. Score another win for cowboy logic.


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## jebr (Oct 19, 2020)

I voted by mail a couple weeks ago. In Minnesota there's no-excuse absentee and early voting available starting September 18, and even if you vote early you can re-vote until 2 weeks before Election Day if you need to change your ballot for any reason. I had requested my mail-in ballot back in August when we moved for both the state primary and general elections. They were mailed out a bit later than usual (early voting started 9/18, but I didn't get my ballot until the end of September.) However, once I got it it was easy enough to fill it out and mail it back, and the elections office received it the next day (verified by the online verification that shows the status of your ballot.)




In Minnesota, early votes can be processed and sent through the ballot counter starting on October 20, but the ballot counter cannot tabulate the results until after polls close on Election Day. That's a fairly quick process, though, so the unofficial Election Day results should include most early votes as well as votes cast on Election Day.

Overall, the process was fairly simple, and I'm glad that Minnesota makes it easy to vote while still having protections in the background to ensure a safe, accurate elections process.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 19, 2020)

In Ohio, our Secretary of State's Office mailed applications for an absentee ballot to every registered voter. My local newspaper also printed--two Sundays in a row--a ballot application that was located on Page A2 of the paper. I completed the application from the Secretary of State and mailed it to my County's Board of Elections. The ballot arrived on October 6th; I mailed it on October 9th.

Just checked to see if my ballot had arrived and had been processed by my Board of Elections. It arrived on October 17th and was processed. My vote will be counted. 

Disappointed that it took a week for the ballot to get from a Dayton suburb to downtown Dayton. However, the suburban Post Office where I dropped the ballot into the mail has been known to be a "problem" one at times. 

Moral of my experience: Don't procrastinate in getting your absentee ballot marked and mailed!


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 19, 2020)

This year millions of Americans will be voting by mail-in ballot for the first time. Although helpful and necessary to reduce risk and increase participation mail-in ballots are also susceptible to silent invalidation. The top disqualifying factors are lack of a signature, a signature that does not closely match another (potentially much older) government document, missed deadlines, and a failure to follow instructions. Some states now require a witness or notary and others require multiple successive envelopes. Election rules change over time and if you only vote occasionally you may have missed important changes or court rulings since the last major election.





See the following article for several factors to consider when submitting a main-in ballot to avoid trouble.









How to make sure your mail-in ballot is counted and not discarded


Hundreds of thousands of ballots are rejected each year. Make sure your vote counts by avoiding these common pitfalls.




www.usatoday.com


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## jis (Oct 19, 2020)

At least in Florida they send you a notification of signature anomaly or missing one and there is an opportunity to fix that if there is enough time. Also, at least in my county they accept ballots that are missing the secrecy sleeve. But of course the ballot does have to be sealed in the envelope that bears the certification signature, and that has to be enclosed in the outer enevlope. I believe that is pretty standard for most mail-in ballot setups.

One interesting hypothetical question I have been pondering is, if there were no mail ballot allowed, how many additional people would simply not vote. If that number is larger than rejected mail in ballots then having mail in ballots is still a winner, provided of course there is no bias in determining rejection, which in some cases could be a dubious assumption..

Personally, I have never had a mail ballot of mine rejected, i.e. all were tabulated and counted, at least on record..


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 19, 2020)

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans( Federal) just OKd Texas rejecting Mail in Ballots without notifying the Voters theres a problem before Election Day,which means the Ballot wont be counted and the Voter will have no opportunity to correct it!

It's being appealed to the Supreme Court,but these Voter rights appeals are regularly being denied by the Majority Members.( Currently 5-3, soon to be 6-3)

Voter Supression takes many forms, this is just one of the many tricks being used.It joins the Texas Governor ruling that each of the 254 Counties in Texas can only have 1 Drop Off Box for Early Votes.

County Populations range from Loving County in West Texas with 169 People, to Harris County and Greater Houston with 6,000,000+ and an area Larger than 7 States!


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## Railroad Bill (Oct 20, 2020)

As Dakota 400 reported, Ohio has made it easy to get your absentee ballot and vote as long as you dont wait until last minute. Many of our local people have voted in person at the BOE OFFICE. We only have 20,000 in the city so not a huge line except on first 2-3 days. Wife & I went down around 3pm. Parked next to office. 3 people ahead of us. 10-12 people voting. 15 machines. No waiting. Show driver license, sign the sheet, clerk checks record and gives you a coded receipt to scan at the machine. A long ballot since we have many issues to renew..schools ,parks, mental health, fire dept ,streets. Took 10 minutes, take the printout, scan the ballot and it goes into the ballot box, got our Voted stickers and out the door. People cleaning machines between each use. Glad we did not use mail in ballots. But have in past years with no iproblem. Stats show lots of local votes already received. Will be interesting to see how many people actually vote on Election Day.


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## Deni (Oct 20, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> In Ohio, our Secretary of State's Office mailed applications for an absentee ballot to every registered voter. My local newspaper also printed--two Sundays in a row--a ballot application that was located on Page A2 of the paper. I completed the application from the Secretary of State and mailed it to my County's Board of Elections. The ballot arrived on October 6th; I mailed it on October 9th.
> 
> Just checked to see if my ballot had arrived and had been processed by my Board of Elections. It arrived on October 17th and was processed. My vote will be counted.
> 
> ...


I would think that it is also possible that it didn't take a week for the USPS to get your ballot to the office of elections, but that it got there within a day or two and didn't get processed by the board right away. It could have been sitting in the board of elections office for several days before processing.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 20, 2020)

Early voting in NM started last Saturday and both news reports and friends and relatives have reported long lines at the polling sites in Bernalillo County which contains Albuquerque. The County Clerk says there has never been anything like it in terms of numbers of people voting early and there is so much more activity and interest in this election than in the past. The county does make it pretty easy to vote. There are 18 early voting sites in the county and one can vote at any of them. They got rid of assigned precincts maybe a decade ago or more. The County clerk who modified the rules to allow for people to vote at any polling site within their county is now the Secretary of State in NM. 

I am in the habit of early in person voting and that is my plan for this year also. I usually wait until later in the early voting schedule to allow me to consume more information on the down-ballot candidates and extras like constitutional amendments. This year I hadn't totally decided on certain issues especially a certain constitutional amendment until yesterday and am currently doing a calculus on when to vote to avoid putting myself in a long line, getting more information on the issues, and the possibility of getting sick and then not being able to go and vote. That almost happened to my sister who several hours after voting started coming down with cold symptoms. I will do a drive by today at the nearby polling site to assess the line situation. We have through Halloween, I think, for early voting.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 20, 2020)

Railroad Bill said:


> Glad we did not use mail in ballots.


Why is that?



Railroad Bill said:


> 3 people ahead of us. 10-12 people voting. 15 machines. No waiting.


I've read similar reports from rural towns in Texas. Here in a city of two million we have the same number of voting machines per location but with 100+ people waiting in line to use them. Without easy and dependable access to mail-in ballots there is simply no practical method for every eligible Texan to vote.



Deni said:


> I would think that it is also possible that it didn't take a week for the USPS to get your ballot to the office of elections, but that it got there within a day or two and didn't get processed by the board right away. It could have been sitting in the board of elections office for several days before processing.


Anything is possible but all indications are that the USPS has been further weakened and compromised in the run up to the election. Here's an article from my own backyard and it's only one of dozens of similar reports across the country.









San Antonio postal union leader describes mass delays, says Postal Service hid backlogged mail from congressman


The union leader said tens of thousands of pieces of mail were carted away ahead of U.S. Rep. Joaquin Castro’s visit. The office's delays have been exacerbated by employees missing because of COVID-19 concerns.




www.texastribune.org


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 20, 2020)

Deni said:


> I would think that it is also possible that it didn't take a week for the USPS to get your ballot to the office of elections, but that it got there within a day or two and didn't get processed by the board right away. It could have been sitting in the board of elections office for several days before processing.



Initially, I thought that might be the case. Reading the information from my Board of Elections more carefully, the date that the ballot was received was the same date that the ballot was processed and approved. That was one week after I put the ballot in the mail slot at the Post Office. The Director of our County Board of Elections has been saying that they are processing the ballots on the day their Office receives them. There has been no back-log with which to deal.

The _Dayton Daily News, _a couple of weeks ago did a test to see how quickly the same size envelope as a ballot envelope with the proper postage applied was received in their office by mailing dozens of such envelopes in a variety of places throughout our region. The envelope mailed from the Post Office where I mailed my ballot took one week to be delivered to the newspaper's office near downtown Dayton.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 20, 2020)

Ok, I done voted this afternoon. Small line, but it was sort of crowded in there. Then when I got done filling in the circles on the ballot and got up to take it to the counting machine, I noticed the man in the booth next to me had his darn mask below his nose which was quite large, I might add. I was tempted to tell him to "pull your darn pants/mask up", but I was leaving and didn't want to be around such people any more than I have to. I spent a lot of time on the ballot because there were a lot of things on it, but I didn't notice when he sat down next to me. Also, I'm pretty sure it was less than 6 feet between voting desks, so I was not pleased with the site I voted at.

With regard to the Post office, when everyone was first in an uproar over the negative changes there, I mailed a box of books at book rate (the cheapest and slowest) from NM to OH and it took 7 days to get there which was better than I expected. However, about this same time, someone had mailed me a first class letter containing a check from CA and I got it 7 days after he mailed it. Seven days in both cases and 7 days to get from one place in Dayton to another in Dayton per Dakota 400. So 7 seems to be the magic number.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 20, 2020)

Seven days is enough to disqualify millions of otherwise valid ballots in battleground states. Even states without strict cutoffs are likely to face legal challenges that will interrupt and freeze ballot counting as we saw back in 2000.


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## Deni (Oct 21, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> Initially, I thought that might be the case. Reading the information from my Board of Elections more carefully, the date that the ballot was received was the same date that the ballot was processed and approved. That was one week after I put the ballot in the mail slot at the Post Office. The Director of our County Board of Elections has been saying that they are processing the ballots on the day their Office receives them. There has been no back-log with which to deal.
> 
> The _Dayton Daily News, _a couple of weeks ago did a test to see how quickly the same size envelope as a ballot envelope with the proper postage applied was received in their office by mailing dozens of such envelopes in a variety of places throughout our region. The envelope mailed from the Post Office where I mailed my ballot took one week to be delivered to the newspaper's office near downtown Dayton.


Well that's not good. Does the ballot have to be received by election day in OH?


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## jis (Oct 21, 2020)

In my county the standing instruction is to mail the mail ballot at least 7 days before election day, failing which take it to any early voting station and drop it off in the secure drop box that is available in each, or do so at any of the election commission administrative offices.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 21, 2020)

jis said:


> In my county the standing instruction is to mail the mail ballot at least 7 days before election day, failing which take it to any early voting station and drop it off in the secure drop box that is available in each, or do so at any of the election commission administrative offices.


Unfortunately here in Texas, each of the 254 Counties can only have 1 "Drop off Box" for Early Ballots. 

Counties range from Loving County in West Texas with a Population of 169, to Harris County( Houston Area) with 6,000,000+ which is Larger in Area than 7 States, and makes it really hard for those who cant drive to deliver their ballots.( Ballot Harvesting or having others deliver ballots is not allowed).

The average time for Postal Mail to be delivered here in Texas ranges from 3-7 days depending on where you live.

Update: More Texans have Voted Early in 2020 than the Total Vote in 2016!!!


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## Asher (Oct 21, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Unfortunately here in Texas, each of the 254 Counties can only have 1 "Drop off Box" for Early Ballots.
> 
> Counties range from Loving County in West Texas with a Population of 169, to Harris County( Houston Area) with 6,000,000+ which is Larger in Area than 7 States, and makes it really hard for those who cant drive to deliver their ballots.( Ballot Harvesting or having others deliver ballots is not allowed).
> 
> ...



That 1 per county drop box is a strange law. Some folk can't even get to a box 2 blocks away without some help, that older people may not have. It make absolutely no sense. Sounds like obstruction of justice.
I voted!


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 21, 2020)

Corona infections are surging so stay safe if voting in person and if voting by mail be sure to track your ballot and report any anomalies you may encounter. Last minute scheming and manipulation is likely as subversive groups are prodded to take action against political foes with indirect cues like pulling back on postal security.



> The USPS ordered its uniformed police officers to halt their patrol duties at the end of August, raising concerns about the security of mail-in ballots and sparking a lawsuit against the agency.





> The order came a day after Postmaster General Louis DeJoy testified to Congress that he would suspend sweeping changes until after the election following criticism they could delay ballot delivery.











USPS told its postal police officers to stand down, igniting concerns about mail-in ballot security and sparking another lawsuit against the agency


The USPS has become a flashpoint in the upcoming elections under the leadership of Trump ally Louis DeJoy, who has made major changes.




www.businessinsider.com


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 21, 2020)

Deni said:


> Well that's not good. Does the ballot have to be received by election day in OH?



If the ballot is mailed, it must be postmarked the day before the election. Absentee ballots may be returned in person to their County Board of Elections on the day of election before the polls close at 7:30 P. M.


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## daybeers (Oct 22, 2020)

CT is one of the few states that doesn't have early voting unfortunately, which I've always found strange. They did add COVID as an option for absentee mail-in ballots this year and mailed an application to each registered voter. That's nice, but I really wish states would do away with the application part. It's difficult enough getting people to vote and having to fill out, sign, and mail/drop off two different forms several weeks apart for the same election is silly. I have heard good things about the drop-off boxes here, which my family, friends, and I all used to drop off our ballots. Very similar design to post office boxes. I think there is at least one in each of the 169 towns/cities in CT, so I consider us lucky. My town's is at the town hall. Incredibly easy process overall, just need to read the instructions correctly. Ballots were mailed out starting October 3rd by each town hall I believe, so it was quick getting mine. I filled it out and dropped it off about two weeks ago and it shows as processed integrated in the voter registration lookup tool on the state website. I know my state participates in signature verification with the Department of Motor Vehicles to compare your ballot signature with your ID signature, which as others have pointed out, is a fatally flawed verification process, especially with how much variation there is in handwriting especially over a license validity time which can be up to 8 years now.

I would have voted early in-person if that was an option, but I decided to vote absentee to get it over with and know my ballot will be counted as opposed to running into long lines/other issues on Election Day. I anxiously await results as we close in under two weeks from the big day, and though I'm disappointed about all the illegal voter suppression that's rampant across the country, I'm hopeful and optimistic about the number of people registering for the first time and the number of votes already cast, it's quite incredible!


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## DetroitDave (Oct 22, 2020)

Here in Michigan (specifically Wayne County, City of Detroit), absentee voting seems to be going smoothly.

The State of Michigan website has been thorough in providing residents information regarding their local clerk/election offices and staffed vs. unstaffed ballot drop box locations. 

I received my ballot in the mail...weeks ago on October 1st, but waited to review down-ballot selections and proposals. I( prefer having time to go over key judges, officials, and props...or, if in person, bringing in a sample ballot. Whatever's clever.) I was pleasantly surprised my neighborhood community house has a dropbox right in the driveway so I dropped mine off there on the 6th! By the 7th I received a notification it was received (we have two systems for verifying that ballots were received and processed - one includes text message alerts for citizens.) They have clear instructions and easy procedures for if you spoil a ballot, too.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 22, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> USPS told its postal police officers to stand down, igniting concerns about mail-in ballot security and sparking another lawsuit against the agency
> 
> 
> The USPS has become a flashpoint in the upcoming elections under the leadership of Trump ally Louis DeJoy, who has made major changes.
> ...


I didn't even know there were postal police until this article. I knew about postal inspectors who are supposed to deal with mail theft and the like and who can't seem to get anything done in my part of the world. Is that the same as the postal police?


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 22, 2020)

*REMINDER: Voter registration deadline for Arizona*, Nebraska, and Utah is tomorrow, October 23! 
**Correction: Arizona's registration extension period was rescinded by court ruling and has already expired.



Barb Stout said:


> I didn't even know there were postal police until this article. I knew about postal inspectors who are supposed to deal with mail theft and the like and who can't seem to get anything done in my part of the world. Is that the same as the postal police?


Postal Police Officers are the uniformed division of the Postal Inspection Service. In the past if a given route or area had a history of theft, abuse, or other safety issues postal police officers would help protect the staff and mail in and around those areas. Or, at least they could have before being sidelined. What they will not do (at least to my knowledge) is protect private property prior to pickup or after delivery, which is when mail where I live is most at risk. I support improving and expanding protection from mail theft but we seem to be moving further backward at the moment.


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## AFS1970 (Oct 22, 2020)

I will be voting in person, but that is because I will be working on a friend's campaign and will be at polling places all day. I have only used an absentee ballot once and that was for a primary I was out of town for. 

I can tell you that ballot security is a real thing. When I bought my condo, it took 2-3 years to stop getting the post cards for the old owners telling them where to vote. If I were so inclined I could have asked for absentee ballots for them and voted for them. I am involved in local politics and know both of my registrars and it took me a long time to convince them that this couple no longer lived in the home I bought from them. I come across people registered to vote at bad addresses all the time working on campaigns. Nobody really seems interested in cleaning up the voter rolls. Local folks know this, I don't think anyone has figured out a good way to exploit this nationally yet, at least I hope they haven't.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 22, 2020)

AFS1970 said:


> I will be voting in person, but that is because I will be working on a friend's campaign and will be at polling places all day. I have only used an absentee ballot once and that was for a primary I was out of town for.
> 
> I can tell you that ballot security is a real thing. When I bought my condo, it took 2-3 years to stop getting the post cards for the old owners telling them where to vote. If I were so inclined I could have asked for absentee ballots for them and voted for them. I am involved in local politics and know both of my registrars and it took me a long time to convince them that this couple no longer lived in the home I bought from them. I come across people registered to vote at bad addresses all the time working on campaigns. Nobody really seems interested in cleaning up the voter rolls. Local folks know this, I don't think anyone has figured out a good way to exploit this nationally yet, at least I hope they haven't.


The Russians,Iranians and Chinese are on this! See the FBI/HLS Report from Wed.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 22, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> I didn't even know there were postal police until this article. I knew about postal inspectors who are supposed to deal with mail theft and the like and who can't seem to get anything done in my part of the world. Is that the same as the postal police?



Postal police was a new job classification to me as well. Devil's Advocate's explanation of their job (and reading a part of the lawsuit that was filed) certainly was informative.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 22, 2020)

I'm going to post this with some trepidation because I don't want to start an argument. It is simply a concern that I have that I have not seen addressed during this election season. I want to make it clear: I am in favor of making the right to vote as easy as is reasonable and am against any voter suppression attempts.

In Ohio, there is only one "drop box location" per County allowed for ballots to be received. That box is located where our County Board of Elections is housed. Arguments have been made in Ohio to allow other "drop box locations" in the County as some States permit. At least for 2020, that isn't going to happen.

Our County Board of Elections Director has said that their "drop box" is regularly emptied during the day. To me, that indicates that there is some security being provided for the ballots deposited in that box. "Someone" is keeping an "eye" on the box. 

If there are "drop box locations" at distant locations within the County, how often would it be reasonable to expect for the ballots in that box to be collected? How "secure" are those boxes? 

Are those "multiple drop box locations" as secure as mailing one's ballot at a Post Office?


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## jis (Oct 22, 2020)

In Florida Drop Boxes are located only in places with staff nearby. They are in the Administrative Offices of the County Supervisor of Elections and at each early voting polling stations.

There are other states where there are other locations. Don't see any reason why they would be any less secure than a Mail Box, and don;t see why they could not be collected from a couple of times a day.


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## AFS1970 (Oct 22, 2020)

The boxes themselves are probably secure. What I wonder about is the security of the ballots once they are out of the box but are awaiting counting. 

I am from Connecticut, a few years ago in Bridgeport our state made national news for issues including a bag of ballots that were left unsecured in the corner of a hotel ballroom. My city's tax office was keeping cash in a plastic shopping bag under a counter and only occasionally making deposits. This only came to light when an employee was accused o stealing the cash.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 23, 2020)

jis said:


> In Florida Drop Boxes are located only in places with staff nearby. They are in the Administrative Offices of the County Supervisor of Elections and at each early voting polling stations.
> 
> There are other states where there are other locations. Don;t see any reason why they would be any less secure than a Mail Box, and don;t see why they could not be collected from a couple of times a day.


Unless you look @ California where a certain Party set up " Fake" Drop off Boxes to illegally Harvest Votes.

Sort of like sending the Fox to guard the Chickenhouse!


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## Asher (Oct 24, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Unless you look @ California where a certain Party set up " Fake" Drop off Boxes to illegally Harvest Votes.
> 
> I don't know what those fake drop boxes was about with all the legal ones spread around. I think it was a ruse to cause confusion in the vote count. I doubt if there was a log where the boxes were placed.


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## jis (Oct 24, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Unless you look @ California where a certain Party set up " Fake" Drop off Boxes to illegally Harvest Votes.
> 
> Sort of like sending the Fox to guard the Chickenhouse!


For those congenitally predisposed to break the law and/or cheat, they can set up fake mail boxes too.


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## DetroitDave (Oct 24, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> I'm going to post this with some trepidation because I don't want to start an argument. It is simply a concern that I have that I have not seen addressed during this election season. I want to make it clear: I am in favor of making the right to vote as easy as is reasonable and am against any voter suppression attempts.
> 
> In Ohio, there is only one "drop box location" per County allowed for ballots to be received. That box is located where our County Board of Elections is housed. Arguments have been made in Ohio to allow other "drop box locations" in the County as some States permit. At least for 2020, that isn't going to happen.
> 
> ...



No trepidation needed...that's a good question! As you alluded to, with the 2020 Election season many things are a bit too late to have implemented, but there absolutely should be consideration to address/think about dropbox security. I can only speak for my area where the locations of drop boxes are in often-staffed locations, and when not, the buildings seem to have cameras (from the locations I scouted-out in my neck fo the woods.) I've heard of the one ballot box location in Texas (Bob Dylan above). 

I'm not sure what the realistic expectation is for states with multiple drop boxes. I would think a route where someone or several people from a county elections office goes around to collect them with some frequency, but some counties are BIG and boxes can be far-flung. I don't know.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 25, 2020)

*REMINDER: USPS Recommends Voters Send Ballots No Later Than Tuesday, Oct. 27.*

Send in your ballot as soon as possible or drop off at a polling place directly:









Polling Place Locator - Vote.org


Wondering where you vote on Election Day? Use our polling place locator to find out.




www.vote.org





Remember to carefully follow the instructions on it as well:





__





Read the F*ing Directions - Spread the Vote


Read the F*ing Directions. Make sure your ballot is counted.




readthefingdirections.com





And don’t forget to track it:









TrackVote.org: How to track your absentee ballot in each state


Was it received? Did it count? 46 states let you track the status of your ballot. Choose your state, track your vote.




trackvote.org





Source:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/usps-states-delayed-mail-in-ballots/2020/08/14/64bf3c3c-dcc7-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 26, 2020)

*Online voter registration deadline for Colorado, Montana, and Washington is Today, Oct. 26! *


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 27, 2020)

We are now seven days away from election day. This is the best time to send any remaining ballots to help ensure they are received and counted rather than ignored or discarded. There is new push to forcibly end all counting at midnight on November 3rd to ram through whoever is in the lead so do not delay one minute longer than necessary. If your state does not cover the cost of postage be sure to add enough for first class delivery or your ballot may never be counted.

Despite the unprecedented and hypocritical maneuvering we witnessed last night it is more important now than ever to keep voting, keep calling, and keep donating to the causes in which we believe. Moneyed interests and master manipulators have always clung to the old ways in times of change. If you know someone who cares but doesn't always act remind them how much is at stake and how their lack of participation today can silence their voice tomorrow.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 28, 2020)

Any remaining ballots should be delivered in person to an official drop box to avoid getting stuck in a postal system that now struggles to deliver First Class _intrastate_ mail in less than seven days.  There have been credible reports of fake drop boxes, arson attacks, sudden removals, overt surveillance, and other suppressive actions so take care to confirm your intended destination is officially sanctioned and located in a safe area (if you have a choice).

Early voting will soon be wrapping up so if you plan to vote in person be sure to confirm locations and schedule.

Link to Early Voting Schedules By State: State Laws Governing Early Voting


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 28, 2020)

Here in Texas,currently experiencing a Huge Surge in Cases and Hospitilizations( Were #1!!) a Fededal Judge has overruled the Governors exemption for the wearing of Masks @ the Polls.

Our Attorney General is appealing this ruling to the 5th Circuit in New Orleans,which is SOP for him when it concerns all Health and Safety Orders in the Lone Star State. 

Vote ( early Voting ends on the 30th in Texas),and stay Safe, it's a Jungle out there!.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 28, 2020)

Texans who are COVID positive now require a doctor's note to vote by absentee ballot. A positive test alone is not enough to qualify. This rule nudges infected citizens to vote in person. It also makes it more difficult for high-risk citizens who lack insurance or are saddled with high deductibles to play it safe. On the other hand refusing to wear a mask is still allowed without any notes or tests. Excluding high-risk voters from easy absentee voting while giving _infected_ citizens the option to vote in person _without a mask_ creates an unnecessary risk where none needs to exist.









Texas Voters With Covid-19 Need A Doctor’s Note To Vote Absentee, Court Rules


The ruling could disenfranchise low-income voters and voters of color as Covid-19 cases rise.




www.forbes.com


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## Amtrakfflyer (Oct 29, 2020)

Iowa voted early last week. In and out in 5 mins, very friendly and efficient. For a red state Iowa and especially Scott County (Quad cities) do it right. Now if we could just get our train to Chicago


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 29, 2020)

*Five Days Until the Election - Last Day to Register in Nevada*

Link: https://www.registertovotenv.gov

Many states will finish their early voting period tomorrow so act now if you want to vote early.



Amtrakfflyer said:


> Iowa voted early last week. In and out in 5 mins, very friendly and efficient. For a red state Iowa and especially Scott County (Quad cities) do it right. Now if we could just get our train to Chicago


I'm glad early voting went well. With the pandemic, wildfires, ice storms, hurricanes, and power outages voting sooner is better than waiting. Speaking of passenger trains Austin has included metro rail funding on the ballot for the third time but I have no idea how it's polling and passage seems unlikely. Oil frackers, refineries, distributors, ranchers, dealerships, and airlines have done an amazing job lobbying Texans to kill new passenger rail projects and I would expect their success to continue well into the future. That's not to say building more passenger rail is impossible, but you can easily double or triple the construction estimate fighting endless battles with more established adversaries.









Will the Third Time Be a Charm for an Austin Rail System?


Project Connect looks to help make connections




www.austinchronicle.com


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## neroden (Oct 29, 2020)

There's no polling on Prop A. I would support it if I lived in Travis County. The only person I know who does has already voted.


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 29, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> *Five Days Until the Election - Last Day to Register in Nevada*
> 
> Link: https://www.registertovotenv.gov
> 
> ...


They're pouring a ton of anti-Rail $$$ into Austin using the old scare tactic of your Taxes will go up Biggly!

Austin has defeated Light Rail Props twice after passing the Red Line Prop, which turned out to be a Fiasco costing over a Billiion Dollars due to mismanagement by the Keystone Cop Operation, aka Cap Metro.

I voted for it, but the odds seem to be against it passing.

The hope is that the Huge Early Vote, and Austin's large percentage of Newcomers and Young Voters will overcome the anti-crowd that always votes against anything or anyone progressve!


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## caravanman (Oct 30, 2020)




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## Asher (Oct 30, 2020)

That's one problem voting by mail, NO I Voted decal. THE 
I can deal with that, one thing that bothers me is, people who are way past legal voting age, complaining about issues and then bragging about, this is the first time in my life I've voted.


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## TinCan782 (Oct 30, 2020)

anumberone said:


> That's one problem voting by mail, no I Voted decal.


Los Angeles County provides an "I Voted" sticker with their mail-in ballot.


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## Asher (Oct 30, 2020)

UT e


FrensicPic said:


> Los Angeles County provides an "I Voted" sticker with their mail-in ballot.


Thanks, I found it .


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 30, 2020)

Many states will close voter registrations and early voting windows Today. I've always had a better experience voting early rather than waiting for election day and I recommend this option to those who can.

Almost everyone knows that younger people are less likely to vote than older people, but the details of how and why this happens have rarely been considered beyond a vague presumption of political indifference. A new survey challenges that notion by recognizing that younger people are often hindered by a lack of knowledge, formal documentation, and personal time. Implementing automatic registration for babies (like SSN) with government managed updates should help overcome several hurtles. Fewer restrictions on voting locations, no-cost identification, more opportunities for early and absentee voting, and moving elections to weekends or national holidays would also help improve younger participation. Many countries already do this and enjoy higher voter participation as a result.









Why Younger Americans Don’t Vote More Often (*No, It’s Not Apathy)


Why don’t more young people vote? We often hear how younger people are apathetic toward politics or politically disengaged. And while it’s true that they tend t…




fivethirtyeight.com


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## AmtrakFlyer (Oct 30, 2020)

No sticker this year in Iowa due to covid. As little contact as postive.


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 30, 2020)

I agree "day of week" can be a problem for many. Our polls have been open from 7 am to 8 pm for as long as I can remember and I usually got in line by 7 am so I could get to work on time - and avoid the long lines that occur after 5 pm. This year, we are able to mail in our ballots or drop them off at a few sites. Unfortunately those drop boxes are only available during "office hours", so many can't use them either. Since I'm unemployed I was able to drop mine off and I also dropped off a friend's for her since she had to work. I believe early voting is only available by appt and then, again, only during "office hours".


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## caravanman (Oct 30, 2020)

Here in the UK, we don't need any I.D. to vote, we just tell the folks our name and address, get a voting form, and job is done. (Northern Ireland has different rules.)
Our polling booths are open until 10pm also.
We have the option to vote by post, or proxy, but 99% of folk (who do vote) vote in person, to the best of my knowledge.
It's a bit like that when we buy our train tickets or ride the trains, no I.D. is required.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 30, 2020)

FrensicPic said:


> Los Angeles County provides an "I Voted" sticker with their mail-in ballot.



Ohio does the same. It was a different design this year from the sticker that had been used in the past.


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## jis (Oct 30, 2020)

After the incidents at Vote Drop Boxes in some other states, I noticed that in our county the Supervisor of Elections has posted a guard cum help person at each of the ballot drop boxes. Yesterday when I went to drop off a ballot the gentleman was very helpful in pointing out the slot which I knew the location of since I had dropped off my own ballot a week back. I was doing this for a friend who is extreme high risk for COVID and is confined to home.


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## Katibeth (Oct 30, 2020)

I did early voting in person a week ago Monday in Illinois. Something wasn't working properly, so we stood close to an hour in a line that went out of the building and down the road a bit. Once fixed, everything went very smoothly. They had hand sanitizer in about 4 places. They sanitized the pens after each use for signing your name. They sanitized the booths and screens after each use. If you did not wish to use your hand on the screen, they offered numerous disposable straws that reportedly worked to tap the screen. Everyone wore a mask. I felt very safe. Many people delivered their mail-in ballot to the locked receptacle inside the same area where everyone was voting. I am a senior with Type 2 Diabetes, but I felt very safe voting in-person.
Oh, and in response to Caravanman, I'm only asked my name and address. No one requests an ID. And we received an I Voted sticker.


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## jis (Oct 30, 2020)

caravanman said:


> Here in the UK, we don't need any I.D. to vote, we just tell the folks our name and address, get a voting form, and job is done. (Northern Ireland has different rules.)
> Our polling booths are open until 10pm also.
> We have the option to vote by post, or proxy, but 99% of folk (who do vote) vote in person, to the best of my knowledge.
> It's a bit like that when we buy our train tickets or ride the trains, no I.D. is required.


UK is also different in that any citizen of a Commonwealth country that is a resident of UK can vote.


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## Jean (Oct 30, 2020)

Here in Australia, there is a significant difference in voting - it is compulsory. Folks who do not vote and do not have an adequate excuse are fined. I think the fine is $50, don’t know for sure as I have always voted. Even if overseas, we have requested a postal vote and mail that in from wherever. There must be a cut off date, but I know postal votes are counted for days or even weeks after polling day, which is always a Saturday. Early voting is available for about a week before the official day.
Another difference is that we don’t vote for judges and other public officials. These jobs are filled in the way all other jobs are filled, by application and interview or government appointment.
Very occasionally there is a referendum, a vote on a particular issue, but this rare. I can’t remember when the last one was.
The vast majority of Australians would not dream of not voting. Although we take it seriously, I always feel there is a mildly festive air, many polling places have charities running a BBQ, selling what we call democracy sausages - a sausage, sauce, usually fried onions, in some sort of bread. Or there may be a cake stall to raise money for a charity. Not sure if COVID would prevent this. If a religion prevents a person from voting on a Saturday, like my neighbour who was a Seventh Day Adventist, postal voting is used, although this may be a valid excuse.
I read previous posts relating to what appear to be attempts by various forces to prevent citizens from voting. This is surely serious enough to warrant major complaints. The right to vote has been won with much pain and effort over many years, it is so hard to believe anyone could try to break down one of the main rights of any citizen.


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## Asher (Oct 30, 2020)

caravanman said:


> Here in the UK, we don't need any I.D. to vote, we just tell the folks our name and address, get a voting form, and job is done. (Northern Ireland has different rules.)
> Our polling booths are open until 10pm also.
> We have the option to vote by post, or proxy, but 99% of folk (who do vote) vote in person, to the best of my knowledge.
> It's a bit like that when we buy our train tickets or ride the trains, no I.D. is required.


God save the Queen!


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## Barb Stout (Oct 31, 2020)

Jean said:


> I read previous posts relating to what appear to be attempts by various forces to prevent citizens from voting. This is surely serious enough to warrant major complaints. The right to vote has been won with much pain and effort over many years, it is so hard to believe anyone could try to break down one of the main rights of any citizen.


It's part of our heritage.


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## Dakota 400 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jean said:


> Although we take it seriously, I always feel there is a mildly festive air, many polling places have charities running a BBQ, selling what we call democracy sausages - a sausage, sauce, usually fried onions, in some sort of bread. Or there may be a cake stall to raise money for a charity.



I like those ideas! A church where I once was a member would hold Election Day Dinners which was a fund raiser.

In 2020, The Washington National Cathedral and my local church are holding pre-Election Day Prayer Vigils and Services. Not to pray for any specific result to the election, but to pray for a peaceful election for those who work at the polls, for the voters, and for our Country.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 3, 2020)

*Election Day is Here - Our Last Chance To Stand Up and Be Counted!*

Regardless of the eventual outcome this election has already broken records for participation and hopefully signals a change in American attitudes toward taking political issues more seriously and recognizing that elections truly matter.

There have been numerous examples of hostile and dangerous behavior by partisan thugs on roads, sidewalks, parking lots, and polling sites in several states. If you see voter suppression or intimidation be sure to alert someone.



https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_pdf_file/kyr-voterintimidation-v03.pdf



Anyone who is in line when the polls close is guaranteed the right to cast a vote.

If turned away do not react aggressively but calmly demand a provisional ballot with a receipt as required by law.

Do not expect a quick and obvious result on election night.

Expect a thorough and complete counting process that respects the will of all Americans who voted in good faith.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 3, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> *Election Day is Here - Our Last Chance To Stand Up and Be Counted!*
> 
> Regardless of the eventual outcome this election has already broken records for participation and hopefully signals a change in American attitudes toward taking political issues more seriously and recognizing that elections truly matter.
> 
> ...


But sadly, look for squads of Lawyers running to Courts all over the Country as the meter runs while we wait for a resolution to the Election.

The Supreme Court has no business settling elections like they did in 2000 in Bush v Gore!!

Shakespeare was right, " ..First we kill the Lawyers..."


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## Asher (Nov 3, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> *Election Day is Here - Our Last Chance To Stand Up and Be Counted!*
> 
> Regardless of the eventual outcome this election has already broken records for participation and hopefully signals a change in American attitudes toward taking political issues more seriously and recognizing that elections truly matter.
> 
> ...



Hopefully this election runs smoother than it did in Athens Tennessee 1946 behind bars are the police who created most of the issues.


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## jis (Nov 3, 2020)

Over 100 million votes were cast in early and mail ballots before a single vote was cast on election day. That is something like 47% of all registered voters.

Fivethirtyeight estimates that there will be between 146 and 168 million votes cast in total, which would imply that close to two thirds of the votes that are expected have already been cast.

My county went into the election day with around 67% of the registered voters having already cast their vote.

The total votes cast in this election will be one for the history books.


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## Night Ranger (Nov 3, 2020)

anumberone said:


> Hopefully this election runs smoother than it did in Athens Tennessee 1946 behind bars are the police who created most of the issues.View attachment 19482


I live near Athens and there are still a lot of senior citizens there who have first hand knowledge of what locals will always call "The Battle of Athens." These GIs were dead serious about exercising the right to vote that they had fought for overseas. They had the experience and the will and were not any more afraid of a a local dictator than a foreign one. 

A college friend's dad told us the story of how he had several sticks of dynamite fused and ready when they were told to stand down. He was a veteran of the fighting in Europe but talked more about the Battle of Athens than his time in the ETO. The least we can do for the Greatest Generation is vote.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 3, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Do not expect a quick and obvious result on election night. Expect a thorough and complete counting process that respects the will of all Americans who voted in good faith.





Bob Dylan said:


> But sadly, look for squads of Lawyers running to Courts all over the Country as the meter runs while we wait for a resolution to the Election. The Supreme Court has no business settling elections like they did in 2000 in Bush v Gore!!


While it is true that I _anticipate_ lots of subversive scheming and manipulating I still _expect_ all legitimate votes to be counted anyway. If that is not what we get then it is on us to push back against tyranny. This will be a very dangerous time for us. The future of our democracy depends on a fair and honest election and we must insist that is what we get.


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## jis (Nov 3, 2020)

As it turns out the most controversial election that I voted on before this one, was in India, last election I voted on there before moving to the US. That was the election in which the nation was furious with Indira Gandhi because of what most considered an unwarranted Emergency Declaration, and some high handed actions that followed.

But the bottom line was, that there was a free and fair election, and all votes were counted. Indira Gandhi lost, and turned power over peacefully to the winner, in an organized fashion, following standard protocols. That is what helped cement the democratic tradition, among a few other such acts by other PMs before that, which has held fast till now in India.

Interestingly, the US may be facing one of those tests this time. We'll see.


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## me_little_me (Nov 4, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> But sadly, look for squads of Lawyers running to Courts all over the Country as the meter runs while we wait for a resolution to the Election.
> 
> The Supreme Court has no business settling elections like they did in 2000 in Bush v Gore!!
> 
> Shakespeare was right, " ..First we kill the Lawyers..."


Please no partisan postings in this thread. Whether you agree with their decisions or not, the state and federal courts and ultimately the highest courts of the states and federal government are the final interpreters of the law.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 4, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Please no partisan postings in this thread. Whether you agree with their decisions or not, the state and federal courts and ultimately the highest courts of the states and federal government are the final interpreters of the law.


Nothing partisan here, both sides have squads of Lawyers and its gonna be a mess at least till Dec, just like 2000 was. 

Elections shouldn't be settled by Judges, our system is set up for States and Localities to handle Voting and Counting.,by LAW! Period.

Over and Out!


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 5, 2020)

While watching results I was reading about a certain group of supporters entering election related buildings in the Detroit and Phoenix areas. They were shouting and causing so much disruption they needed to be removed from the counting process. These protestors refused to leave the premises and kept shouting at staff through windows with bullhorns. Some of the protestors were armed and some were extremely aggressive. The protest was advertised on social media and as the mob grew in size and anger the situation become tense enough that staff had to be escorted to their cars. Eventually it got so bad they had to stop counting ballots and send everyone home just to keep the peace. This is completely screwed up and now we're hearing that several more protests are scheduled for tomorrow.

I don't know why this is still being tolerated. It's one thing if you're protesting the police or military but elections staff are typically working a thankless job just trying to get by (in the middle of a pandemic no less). They never signed up to be antagonized, they're not trained to deal with aggressive mobs, and they don't receive hazard pay. Protesting itself is fine, and if you want to observe the counting system there is a method for doing so in a calm and quiet fashion, but this new breed of aggressive vigilante supporter has got to go. If you know someone who has gone down the militant protestor rabbit hole please talk to them or at least let someone know if you think they might be a danger to others. We've seen emotional rhetoric turn into preventable violence before and it's on all of us to push back against that.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 6, 2020)

> An armed man was arrested Thursday night outside a Philadelphia convention center hosting a vote count after police received word of an alleged plot to attack the location, a new report said. The bust came after police were tipped off about a group of people from Virginia driving to the convention center in a Hummer with a possible plan to strike, WPVI reported.





Domain Currently Under Maintenance


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## Rover (Nov 6, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> For those who have voted what was your experience?



I voted in Dallas County on the first day of early voting, I got there about 10 minutes after 8am. There were two ahead of me to enter the polling area. Went smoothly. No hiccups. Voting was on a touchscreen, but there was a paper backup printed showing my votes. It took longer to vote in this election because Texas moved away from straight party voting, so each contest was voted on individually.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 7, 2020)

I just want to thank everyone who voted and participated in this thread and hope that we can continue to work together for more and better passenger rail. Neutering the Mica rule was only step one in a long and difficult path toward a much better future. There is still much work to be done but Amtrak isn't dead yet and we can make things better for passenger rail enthusiasts if we keep pushing for more support and better management.









CNN PROJECTION: JOE BIDEN WINS THE PRESIDENCY


Joe Biden has won the presidency. Follow here for the latest news.




www.cnn.com













Biden defeats Trump to win White House, NBC News projects


Kamala Harris makes history as the first woman and first Black and South Asian American elected vice president.




www.nbcnews.com













Biden wins presidency, Trump denied second term in White House, Fox News projects


Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden has defeated incumbent President Donald Trump, Fox News projects.




www.foxnews.com


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## bms (Nov 7, 2020)

No. 49's late arrival into Chicago meant that I was on the train in the Chicago yard when I found out, seems fitting!


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 11, 2020)

A full week after the election the president-elect is still not receiving security briefings, 100% of the executive branch and 93% of the senate majority have refused to acknowledge the outcome, the pentagon brass have been replaced with loyalists, federal agencies have been instructed to resume work on the current administration's February budget initiatives and the secretary of state has said there will be a smooth transition _to a second term_. I know it seems crazy to take this at face value, but if this were happening in any other country would we still be shaking our heads in disbelief, or would we start accepting the possibility that _maybe_ it's not a joke after all? Just to be clear none of the accusations and lawsuits have actually gone anywhere. Instead they have led to bizarre exchanges where a judge is eventually forced to ask the complainant what exactly is being alleged and why it's a problem. Yet the unfounded attacks continue unabated. The best case scenario is that we're witnessing an attempt to wound the next government and pervert the course of justice out of sheer pettiness and spite. The worst case scenario is that we're being tested for how well Americans will tolerate something much deeper and darker than misinformation and meritless attacks. The question I keep coming back to is who is going to stand up in the future that is not willing to stand up now? The longer this goes on the more momentum it gains, the more accepted it becomes, and the harder it will be to push back against it.


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## railiner (Nov 11, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> the pentagon brass have since been replaced with loyalists,


In that case, I hope there is a “Jiggs” in the Pentagon (Kirk Douglas character in the film, “Seven Days in May”)...


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 11, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Best case scenario it's an attempt to wound the next government out of pettiness and spite. Worst case it's a test for how well Americans will tolerate something deeper and darker than mere misinformation.



The star of the reality show that is the present Administration can't accept that his show is being taken off the air and is still acting like there will be another "network" which will pick up the show. 



Devil's Advocate said:


> The question I keep coming back to is who is going to stand up in the future that is not willing to stand up now? The longer this goes on the more momentum it gains, the more accepted it becomes, and the harder it will be to push back against it.



I have been asking myself that question for nearly 4 years now. We have seen dissent on occasion from a few of our current legislators. We have seen respected former public officials offer their thoughts. More--and more blunt, personal communication--needs to be directed at the star of this drama. 

If this "play" continues, the Market is going to like it less and less, I suspect. Maybe the "voices of reason" will come from outside the Beltway?


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## neroden (Nov 11, 2020)

Democratic Governors have already made it clear that they support the elected President-Elect Biden. As have a few Republican Governors. Just enough Republican Senators, too.









Republicans who have broken with Trump to congratulate Biden on his win


Trump has refused to concede the race, and the vast majority of Republicans in Congress and elsewhere have yet to acknowledge the Democrats' victory.




www.nbcnews.com





The Republican Secretary of State of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, is, miracle of miracles, absolutely insistent on counting all the votes honestly and openly and fairly. He has, of course, been promptly attacked by both Republican Senators from Georgia.

I don't think the Trump coup attempt is going to succeed, and yes, this is because I've been counting powerful people. Trump and his closest lackies are definitely *trying* a coup, but I don't think they have the backing.


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## IndyLions (Nov 12, 2020)

What we have seen since 2016 is atrocious behavior on both sides, just in a slightly different form. 

The left accepted the election on election night 2016 alright - then spent four years pushing every conspiracy theory they could drum up (Russian collusion, etc) that had either robbed them of the election or which they could use to force Trump out of office prior to the next election.

Why are we surprised now that the right is screaming foul and dreaming up their own set of conspiracy theories as to how THEY were robbed on Election Day?

These conspiracy theories are all fed by left wingers only patronizing left wing news outlets, and right wingers only patronizing right wing news outlets. These news outlets are all businesses driven by advertising revenue - driven by ratings. The outlets aren’t stupid - they know if they don’t pander to their base their ratings and revenue go down. So CNN previously gave credence to unprovable Russian collusion to satisfy their viewers on the left, and FOX currently gives credence to election fraud to pacify their viewers on the right.


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 12, 2020)

> What we have seen since 2016 is atrocious behavior on both sides, just in a slightly different form. The left accepted the election on election night 2016 alright...


So not the same at all then.



> Why are we surprised now that the right is screaming foul and dreaming up their own set of conspiracy theories as to how THEY were robbed on Election Day?


We're surprised that the _actual_ business of _formal_ transition access and funding is still being blocked.



> These conspiracy theories are all fed by left wingers only patronizing left wing news outlets, and right wingers only patronizing right wing news outlets.


I guess if CNN was worshiping the patriotism of looters and fawning over antifa truck rallies you might have a point.


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## west point (Nov 12, 2020)

I am worried that the federal government is going to go thru a scorched earth action until Jan 20th. Defense department and GSA already.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 12, 2020)

In the article that neroden provided the link to, I counted 7 GOP Senators who have congratulated Mr. Biden on his win. I was aware of 3 of them having done so, but was unaware of the others. Even though McConnell appears to remain in charge of his caucus, is significant dissent beginning to appear? if so, even if the GOP remain in the Senate majority, the defection of some of these 7 on important pieces of legislation might get something productive out of the Senate and not just the confirmation of Federal judges. 

Notably missing, for me, from those who have congratulated Mr. Biden is the Junior Senator from Ohio, Senator Rob Portman.


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## Willbridge (Nov 12, 2020)

neroden said:


> Democratic Governors have already made it clear that they support the elected President-Elect Biden. As have a few Republican Governors. Just enough Republican Senators, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our very smooth mail-in ballot in Colorado was the result of bi-partisan efforts. We're just lucky that the system was set up a while ago while nobody nationally was paying attention. It has now operated under a Republican Secretary of State and a Democrat Secretary of State. A majority of the county clerks are Republican and the county clerks representing most of the big population counties are Democrats. Either way, with over a dozen ballot measures added to a U.S. Senate vote and state House and Senate votes, lines would have moved slowly if only traditional same-day voting was permitted.

The sad thing for the "coup" states is that it smears them for other purposes. Who wants to locate a business in a state that can't manage to run an election? Secretaries of State commonly handle business regulation, too.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 12, 2020)

Dakota 400 said:


> In the article that neroden provided the link to, I counted 7 GOP Senators who have congratulated Mr. Biden on his win. I was aware of 3 of them having done so, but was unaware of the others. Even though McConnell appears to remain in charge of his caucus, is significant dissent beginning to appear? if so, even if the GOP remain in the Senate majority, the defection of some of these 7 on important pieces of legislation might get something productive out of the Senate and not just the confirmation of Federal judges.
> 
> Notably missing, for me, from those who have congratulated Mr. Biden is the Junior Senator from Ohio, Senator Rob Portman.


Yall will have a chance to Vote him out next time hes up for Re-election!


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## Barb Stout (Nov 13, 2020)

IndyLions said:


> These conspiracy theories are all fed by left wingers only patronizing left wing news outlets, and right wingers only patronizing right wing news outlets. These news outlets are all businesses driven by advertising revenue - driven by ratings. The outlets aren’t stupid - they know if they don’t pander to their base their ratings and revenue go down. So CNN previously gave credence to unprovable Russian collusion to satisfy their viewers on the left, and FOX currently gives credence to election fraud to pacify their viewers on the right.


Fox currently is "saying" that Biden won, and so Trump is now really mad at Fox and is tweeting about Fox, but not about the Covid19 crisis in hospitalizations and qns (quantity not sufficient) hospital personnel in many regions to take care of the hospitalized Covid19 and other afflicted patients. In fact, I think Fox was one of the first media outlets that called the election for Biden. I guess Murdoch sees the writing on the wall.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 13, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> In fact, I think Fox was one of the first media outlets that called the election for Biden. I guess Murdoch sees the writing on the wall.



I believe you are correct. I was surprised that Fox had declared the election for Mr. Biden. I don't quite understand what CNN's problem is about Arizona. I have seen on CNN two maps during the same prime time program: one shows Arizona as being "blue" the other being "white".


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 13, 2020)

This is what I see on CNN.com as of the most recent update. 
Looks like all states have been called with the final tally at 306-232.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 13, 2020)

Bob Dylan said:


> Yall will have a chance to Vote him out next time hes up for Re-election!



Which will be 2022. But, given how 'Red" Ohio has become and no Democrat is very prominent to challenge him, I am not hopeful. 

Two other situations may impact that Senatorial race, Portman will be going for a third term. Ohio rarely rewards a Senator with three terms. (Sen. Sherrod Brown being a notable exception.) Also, Representative Jim Jordan, a Trump advocate, has raised a huge campaign war chest, much more than would be needed for a Congressman who represents a very conservative House District. Wondering minds ask: why? A possible Primary challenge to Portman if Portman would decide to run again?


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 13, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> This is what I see on CNN.com as of the most recent update.
> Looks like all states have been called with the final tally at 306-232.



Thanks for posting this. I have not seen that map before.


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## IndyLions (Nov 14, 2020)

Devil's Advocate said:


> I guess if CNN was worshiping the patriotism of looters and fawning over antifa truck rallies you might have a point.



A conspiracy theory is a conspiracy theory - even if some are more outrageous than others.

In fact - the less outrageous ones are the biggest time wasters and need to be looked at most skeptically by the news outlets and editorial boards. 

We’ll waste 2-3 months as a country on this election fraud nonsense - but we just wasted 2-3 years on Russia collusion nonsense.


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## toddinde (Nov 14, 2020)

Biden unseated an incumbent president by the highest percentage since FDR beat Hoover. Having worked in elections for many years, fraud is impossible on a large scale. Elections have to be certified by a bipartisan board of canvassers. Elections are observed by members of both parties. Machines are certified and audited. Paper ballots can be recounted by hand. The allegations in the 2016 election about Russia, which were proven, is not that they interfered with the vote, but that the engaged in a massive information operations campaign on social media. In any event, Biden is the president-elect, and will be sworn in as president in January 20th. What this means for rail passenger service, Amtrak and transit is that instead of having an administration in office that is hostile to Amtrak and has done everything in their power to destroy it, we’ll have an administration that’s positive about the role rail can play in America. The difference will be night and day.


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