# Thinking About The Atlantic



## dnsommer2013

Does anyone miss The Atlantic? Anybody ever ride it? Any memories or anecdotes? Photos? I rode it only once. Must've been around January, 1979. Sat in the dome all night. What a great ride!

Thanks.


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## railiner

I rode it. I recall that for some reason, the dome seats were facing the wrong way, but that didn't stop me from also riding up there most of the night...great view of, I believe Moosehead Lake, in the bright moonlight....


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## dnsommer2013

Yes. It was quite a unique train. Two border crossings. Lots of wilderness. A full consist with all the amenities, plus a dome car. I rode it in the middle of winter. I remember all the pine trees were heavily frosted with snow. I watched from the dome as the engine's headlight lit up the tracks through the thick forests. I liked seeing each green signal light turn to red as the train passed. The station stops were far apart and few. I don't think The Atlantic was operated by VIA Rail at the time. It still was a CP train. It left Montreal from Gare Windsor. Amtrak's Adirondack was there too, and I remember it too had a dome car, and D&H engines. I also remember hanging out in the diner with the crew. It was a bit awkward. My French wasn't so good. The dining area was below the dome, IIRC. I know parts of this line are still in operation, but I don't know if it's still possible for a train to go all the way across Maine anymore. Canada really had some nice trains at one time.


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## NS VIA Fan

Yes, the CPR Atlantic Limited was a unique train……and prior to its takeover by VIA certainly packed a lot into its short consist. An E8 (one of only 3 in Canada) Baggage, Coach, Skyline Dome-Coffee Shop and a couple of Sleepers. 








When VIA took over in 1979, the consist was greatly expanded but it did lose its dome car and used mostly xCN smooth-side equipment.







VIA discontinued the Atlantic in November 1981 but it was reinstated in June 1985 complete with a “Park Car”. The Atlantic was finally discontinued for good in December 1994.







The xCPR route across Maine is still in service and operated by the Central Maine & Quebec Railway, the Eastern Maine Railway and the New Brunswick Southern Railway. The line had been severed for awhile after the Lac-Megantic disaster but is now back in service.


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## NS VIA Fan

dnsommer2013 said:


> Does anyone miss The Atlantic? Anybody ever ride it? Any memories or anecdotes?.........


You asked for an anecdote about the riding the Atlantic:

The restored Atlantic had only back a short time in June 1985 when people were calling for it to be rerouted via Edmundston to avoid crossing the US Border. Passengers were switching to the Ocean to escape the hassle from US officials even if they had to change trains and wait a couple of hours in Moncton.

Previously only coach passengers and those getting off in the US had been inspected by US Custom and Immigration. Sleeper passengers were just left alone. Now they insisted all passengers would be inspected even if they had no intention of getting off in the US. Eastbound passengers were wakened at 3am ET in Jackman, Maine. Westbound wasn’t as bad: 9pm ET (10pm AT) at Vanceboro. The trains were running long and full so there were major delays.

I was in a sleeper from Montreal to Halifax that summer. When they woke us at 3am the US Inspector asked me the purpose of my trip. I said I was in the States only because the train was. He asked if I was trying to be “Smart” and said he would be back. Well he must have gotten the same reply from most others as I didn’t see him again. If they had left the passengers alone, they would have gone to sleep in Canada and woke in Canada the next morning, some not even realizing they had been through the US.

It took a couple of years of negotiations but eventually the train was “Sealed” across the US. Inspectors rode the trains and only checked those getting off in the US.

Anyone boarding in the US was checked by Canada Customs when the trains reached McAdam NB or Megantic, Quebec.

And this was all before 9-11...... Wonder how things would be handled today if the Atlantic was still running!!


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## dnsommer2013

Those are great photos! It looks like they were taken at the same station through all the years. Did you hang around a certain station a lot?

I rode The Atlantic in Winter. The train was much shorter than in the photos, as I recall. Thanks for the anecdote!

The coaches had fluted sides. They all had a red stripe.

Did people like CP or CN more?


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## NS VIA Fan

dnsommer2013 said:


> Those are great photos! It looks like they were taken at the same station through all the years. Did you hang around a certain station a lot?
> 
> I rode The Atlantic in Winter. The train was much shorter than in the photos, as I recall. Thanks for the anecdote!
> 
> The coaches had fluted sides. They all had a red stripe.
> 
> Did people like CP or CN more?


 No.....different stations. Photo #1 is Dever Road Station in Saint John NB (never used by VIA) #2 is the last run of the Atlantic at Truro NS in Nov 1981 and #3 The first run of the restored Atlantic at McAdam NB in June 1985.

Fluted Sides and Red Stripe was CP Rail.

Both provided top-notch service but CN seemed to attract a younger crowd.


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## NS VIA Fan

Here’s the VIA Atlantic at Saint John NB in 1981.

The cars in the picture below with Stainless Steel Fluting were originally acquired by CN from the Boston & Maine and the Bangor & Aroostook railroads.

And in an interesting twist.....just four hours before I took this photo, the Atlantic would have crossed over the Bangor & Aroostook track these cars run on in the 1950’s on their way to Northern Maine.....and the Boston & Maine car was probably in Saint John too back in the ’50 as part of the "Gull" from Boston.


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## dnsommer2013

Thanks for another great photo, and the interesting info, too! I guess this part of Canada is your regular stomping ground? And I guess no trains run to St. John at all anymore, huh!


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## railiner

NS VIA Fan said:


> Here’s the VIA Atlantic at Saint John NB in 1981.
> 
> The cars in the picture below with Stainless Steel Fluting were originally acquired by CN from the Boston & Maine and the Bangor & Aroostook railroads.
> 
> And in an interesting twist.....just four hours before I took this photo, the Atlantic would have crossed over the Bangor & Aroostook track these cars run on in the 1950’s on their way to Northern Maine.....and the Boston & Maine car was probably in Saint John too back in the ’50 as part of the "Gull" from Boston.


That must be the depot that I boarded Number 41 at.....IIRC, it was "out in the boonies", in some freight yard. I recall the taxi taking us there from the SMT bus terminal, I was wondering if the driver was 'lost'.....

The junction that route made with the BAR, was at Brownville Jct. At the time I rode the Atlantic, the only thing BAR was carrying passenger's in, was its Highway Division buses. The bus route crossed the Atlantic's route at Mattawamkeag. They pooled with Greyhound and ran a thru bus from New York City via Bangor all the way to Edmundston and on to Fort Kent, Me. It was always neat to see that "exotic" bus calling at New York's Port Authority Bus Terminal, where I work....


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## dnsommer2013

Do you suppose CP built this line to serve as two arms of a "Y" to funnel goods from both Quebec and the Maritimes to the United States, or to provide faster Trans-Canada times by directly crossing Maine?


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## railiner

dnsommer2013 said:


> Do you suppose CP built this line to serve as two arms of a "Y" to funnel goods from both Quebec and the Maritimes to the United States, or to provide faster Trans-Canada times by directly crossing Maine?


I would say the latter...Much shorter than the two CN routes.


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## NS VIA Fan

railiner said:


> That must be the depot that I boarded Number 41 at.....IIRC, it was "out in the boonies", in some freight yard. I recall the taxi taking us there from the SMT bus terminal, I was wondering if the driver was 'lost'........


No……the photo above is VIA’s downtown station constructed on the site of the old Union Station when they took over the Atlantic Limited from CP and extended it through to Halifax in October 1979. You would have boarded CP’s #41 at Dever Road Station and as you say, out in the boonies of West Saint John:







[SIZE=10.5pt]In the late 1960s the new Harbour Bridge opened and by the early ’70s Union Station was demolished to allow construction of the Saint John Thruway link-up to the new bridge. CP built a new station and office building at their Dever Road Yard in West Saint John and CN built a new station out along Rothesay Avenue on the east side of the city. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]



[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]At that time CP was operating the Montreal <> Saint John Atlantic Limited and CN had two trains a day each way between Saint John and Moncton. There was now a 6 mile taxi ride between the two stations to make connections.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The old downtown Union Station had been close to the CP Ferry Terminal for easy connections across the Bay Of Fundy to Digby NS and a connection there with the Dominion Atlantic Railway from Halifax and Yarmouth. At the same time CP built out on Dever Road, they also built a new Ferry Termial away from Downtown which also required a taxi ride for connections. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]In October 1979 VIA took over the Atlantic from CP and extended it through Saint John and onto Halifax. A new VIA Station was constructed downtown near the old Union Station site. It was a small “pre-fab” wood structure (below) and was only to have been temporary until a permanent building could be constructed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]



[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Well that temporary station lasted 15 years and the new permanent station opened just months before the Atlantic was discontinued in December 1994 and the end of passenger service to Saint John. This [/SIZE]Station is still there but hasn’t been used in 20 years. (google maps - street view)

http://goo.gl/maps/f8wkR

[SIZE=10.5pt]New Brunswick Southern operates the railway across Saint John now to link up with CN on the east side of the city. Last summer they set up a boarding platform near the old station site for a “Day Out With Thomas”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]



[/SIZE]

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[/SIZE]


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## railiner

Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like Saint John was a taxi-driver's paradise, with those distance's between various depot's........

Anyway, I'll have to go check out what remains of the former depot's on my annual cruise up that way next month.....

Since I have been on a New England/Canada cruise so often, I foresake the usual tourist attractions, and instead check out the rail, bus, ferry, and air terminal's (past and present), at each port of call..... This year I'll call at Saint John, Halifax, and Quebec City, in Canada. Won't see Sydney or Charlottetown this year...


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## NS VIA Fan

railiner said:


> Since I have been on a New England/Canada cruise so often, I foresake the usual tourist attractions, and instead check out the rail, bus, ferry, and air terminal's (past and present), at each port of call.....This year I'll call at Saint John.......


You won’t have any problem finding the former VIA Station. It’s next to “Harbour Station” Sports Arena which is next to the Cruise Ship Terminal.

The CP Rail Dever Road Station is gone:

http://goo.gl/maps/CuS8B

And the old CN Station site is out among the car dealers and fast food on Rothesay Ave.

http://goo.gl/maps/OycH1


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## railiner

Thanks for that info....no point in going to Dever Road to see where it was, I guess. I will go to the other two remaining depot's, as well as to see Maritime Bus's depot, while there.

Do you happen to have the street address for the two rail depot's?

I found the bus depot....125 Station Street....


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## dnsommer2013

Was there ever talk of restoring passenger train service to St. John? Could a section come down from the north from The Ocean?


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## railiner

That's all.....only talk.....not likely for a long time, as the Ocean itself was in question recently.....


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## NS VIA Fan

railiner said:


> Do you happen to have the street address for the two rail depot's?
> 
> I found the bus depot....125 Station Street....


It's just the “site” of the CN station, around the 300 block out on Rothesay Ave.

The downtown VIA Station is easy……when you click on the link for the Maritime Bus Depot, it is the former VIA Station!

 http://www.maritimebus.com/en/view-map.asp?p=1&l=30

….about a 3 or 4 minute walk from the cruise ship terminal. Pan the above Bing-Map link a bit to the left (west) and you can see a Carnival Cruise Ship docked there.


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## NS VIA Fan

dnsommer2013 said:


> Was there ever talk of restoring passenger train service to St. John? Could a section come down from the north from The Ocean?


A big expense for little return. Its 90 miles from Moncton to Saint John and a coordinated “Thruway” type bus connection with Maritime Bus makes more sense.

An Intercity type train service linking Halifax-Moncton-Saint John might work but it would have a tough time being time competitive with driving or bus schedules . I can drive all the way from Halifax to Moncton on the toll-way then onto Saint John before a train would even reach Moncton from Halifax.


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## railiner

NS VIA Fan said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have the street address for the two rail depot's?
> 
> I found the bus depot....125 Station Street....
> 
> 
> 
> It's just the “site” of the CN station, around the 300 block out on Rothesay Ave.
> 
> The downtown VIA Station is easy……when you click on the link for the Maritime Bus Depot, it is the former VIA Station!
> 
> http://www.maritimebus.com/en/view-map.asp?p=1&l=30
> 
> ….about a 3 or 4 minute walk from the cruise ship terminal. Pan the above Bing-Map link a bit to the left (west) and you can see a Carnival Cruise Ship docked there.
Click to expand...

Oh...thanks for that...I misinterpreted the earlier post, thinking the CN depot was still there, also. Guess that makes it an easy day....just the ViA/Maritime Bus depot, and maybe out to see CYSJ....looks like I can catch a number 32 bus in the morning and spend a couple of hours there....


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## Falkner

Well, due to weather condituon's the skipper of my ship, the QM2, decided it was too hazardous to attempt docking in Saint John yesterday, so we missed that port.

We did go on to arrive in Halifax this .morning, and I got a good look at The Atlantic's equipment laying over...


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## railiner

Falkner said:


> Well, due to weather condituon's the skipper of my ship, the QM2, decided it was too hazardous to attempt docking in Saint John yesterday, so we missed that port.
> 
> We did go on to arrive in Halifax this .morning, and I got a good look at The Atlantic's equipment laying over...


. That was my post....having difficulty posting on phone...


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## Swadian Hardcore

You are Falkner, sir?


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## NS VIA Fan

Falkner said:


> We did go on to arrive in Halifax this .morning, and I got a good look at The Atlantic's equipment laying over...


Believe you mean the Ocean?......I caught this consist yesterday at track speed through Milford NS about 40 miles out of Halifax: 3 F40s, 14 Rens + Tweedsmuir Park.


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## NS VIA Fan

[SIZE=10.5pt]It was 35 years ago today, October 29, 1979 the first eastbound VIA Atlantic arrived at Moncton, New Brunswick. [/SIZE]














[SIZE=10.5pt]The previous evening the new Atlantic had departed Central Station in Montreal for the first time and now run on CN to a junction with CP and its former route at Lennoxville, Quebec....then through the now infamous Lac-Megantic and across the State of Maine……but instead of terminating in Saint John it now continued on to Moncton and Halifax.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]And the new VIA Saint John Station that first morning: [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt](The day before the old Atlantic had run on an all CP route, departing from Windsor Station in Montreal for the last time and terminating at CP’s Dever Rd Station in Saint John)[/SIZE]


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## NS VIA Fan

I was on the first run and here’s some souvenirs:

1) [SIZE=10.5pt]My ticket (& still on CN ticket stock) for Roomette 10 in Car 1240

2) The Atlantic’s consist on “Instructions Speciales” (in French) issued at Gare Centrale, Montreal. (Note the Amtrak Montrealer’s consist to Washington listed above the Atlantic)

3) VIA Atlantic Timetable[/SIZE]


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## Swadian Hardcore

Awesome souvenirs, NS VIA Fan! Did the train pick up many pax in Maine in the middle of the night?


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## NS VIA Fan

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Awesome souvenirs, NS VIA Fan! Did the train pick up many pax in Maine in the middle of the night?


[SIZE=10pt]I wouldn’t say there were great crowds boarding at the Maine stops but always a steady business. Sometimes you would get groups from Bangor boarding at Brownville Jct and heading into Montreal.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]For several years we did weekend ski trips on the Atlantic from Halifax to Greenville. VIA[/SIZE] offered Package Deals...... rail, hotel and lifts at Squaw Mountain and the Atlantic had a great bar car! We would leave Halifax at noon and the hotel shuttle would meet the train at midnight in Greenville. Returning, we would board the Atlantic in the wee hours of Monday morning.

[SIZE=10pt]In its final years.....the Atlantic was “sealed” across Maine. US Customs Agents rode the train and only checked those getting off in the US......through passengers were just left alone.Those boarding in the US and going to Canada were checked by Canada Customs when the train reached Megantic, Quebec or McAdam, New Brunswick.[/SIZE]


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