# Providence to Ft Lauderdale and back on the Silvers



## One time AMTRAK fan (Mar 29, 2008)

After an 8 year hiatus, did the trip south and back with AMTRAK. Won't do it again.

Southbound boarded on time the Regional to Penn Station, easy ride all the way. 1 hour wait in the Acela Lounge with the Lays Potato Chip snack with a Pepsi. On time boarding where the conductor and car attendant betrayed their no-give-a-damn attitude early, good warning. The bedroom was old and worn, nothing fit, and few of the pieces worked correctly (lights, thermostat, shower). The car attendant was nowhere to be found and we resorted to the sleeper in front of our car for drinks/ice as she was obviously too busy to take care of that. Food has degraded significantly. Served on plastic, we had the salmon (which admittedly tasted good) but obviously was warmed in a microwave along with the entire plate. Coffee in plastic, dessert out of a paper cup. Easier for the crew, it sucks for the money. Breakfast was pretty good and obviously cooked to order, Lunch passed too...but our memories of the food did not compare with today's reality.

Northbound on the Meteor we found ourselves in the sleeper car that was in front of us on the way south, with the south bound attendant. What a difference! Attentive, drinks stocked, got a paper in the a.m., asked if we needed anything...fellow's name is Leon and what a fantastic rep for AMTRAK he is. Same dining car folks, same plastic food. As a matter of fact, the exact same plastic food...their "market specials" were the same in both directions and awe inspiring (meatballs on rice for example).

Off in DC and the Acela Club there added pretzels to the sophisticated snack mix on hand, and closed at 9:30 pm despite advertised as 24 hrs on the website. Too bad as our regional departed at 10p. Now that was a trip.

Train 66, the train from hell more aptly named 666. Wanking AMTRAK employees right behind us, criminals doing Cocaine hits in the seat in front of us, no quiet car (and this is a train that departs at 10p with a 7am arrival in Providence.) The conductors and other employees couldn't have cared less, the train was filthy with urine and feces throughout the bathroom, and the conductor screeching out the stations as we crawled to NYC where we had a 2 hour layover in disgusting Penn Station. Was actually threatened by one of these dopeheads after I asked him to tone down his (sweaty testicles) speech as my 12 yo daughter was in the seat next to me...I mean threatened, with much gesticulation of his time in prison and how he wished he was still there. Almost wished he carried through so I could shut him up.

What a difference to lose those miscreants in NYC though and get a new crew for the trip to Providence. The new conductor went through picking debris up, obviously screwed over by the losers out of DC. The train was silent all the way, the lights actually turned off, and we were able to sneak in an hour or two of sleep. Commuters started to get aboard for the New London to Boston run, and nobody was doing hits of coke in their seats.

What a difference from my last overnight trip south 8 years ago, never again. Sent AMTRAK a note on it with no reply, gee what a surprise. Good luck, I'm walking next time.


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## AlanB (Mar 29, 2008)

OneTimeFan,

First I'm sorry that your trip wasn't all that you expected. 

A few comments:

If you're upset with the food, complain to Congress who mandated that Amtrak cut their losses in food service.

The food however is heated in a convection oven, not a microwave. Not quite the same as having it cooked on board, but not as bad as a microwave either.

Where on the website does it say that the Club Acela is open 24 hours?

Finally, I'm not sure just what you mean by "sending them a note", but I would call up Amtrak at 1-800-USA-RAIL. When Julie answers, say "Agent". When you get an agent on the phone, ask for Customer service. Then explain to them the issues and preferrably convey any employee names that you might have, both the good and the bad employees. This is the best way to help to change things.

And if you aren't adament that you won't ever travel Amtrak again, you might even get some of your money back in the form of a voucher good for future travel on Amtrak.

If you don't want to be bothered with the phone, then I would highly suggest writing a letter to the President of Amtrak, Alex Kummant and once again express your dismay and concerns. His address is C/O Amtrak, 60 Massachusettes Avenue NE, Washington DC. 20002.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 29, 2008)

AlanB said:


> OneTimeFan,
> First I'm sorry that your trip wasn't all that you expected.
> 
> A few comments:
> ...


does complaing really work. i was told calling usa rail was like peeing on a 4 alarm warehouse fire.


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## One Time Fan (Mar 29, 2008)

While I appreciate the first reply, the true root cause of this poor service/quality is not Congress, it's AMTRAK.

I say this because on every train we rode last week, we found the worst possible morale among employees, with Leon as the one sterling exception. If they weren't lazy, or rude, or hiding, they were sitting in the first table of the dining car, the lounge car, or behind us in the last car of the train complaining loud, long, and vociferously of their lot.

There's no pride any longer. There's no attention to detail, care, or concern of the customer who is paying premium bucks for dirty facilities and the rest.

The nonsense about the food is the key. I'll wager that this preprepared, heat as you go junk actually costs MORE than food prepared on the train. The waste is phenomenal with all the plastic ware (and most of the food) going straight to trash. This was some faceless bureaucrat's "good idea" that was poorly thought out, executed by surly and uncaring employees (or to give them the benefit of the doubt employees that once cared and weren't listened to, and are now demoralized.)

You can provide reasons/excuses all day long but it don't cut it. I was AMTRAK's number one advocate until this trip, and the poor experience (and Train 666) have convinced me that this is the administration's way of getting rid of AMTRAK and rail transportation in this country...make it a bad deal and no one will use it any longer.


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## eliyahu (Mar 29, 2008)

One Time Fan said:


> While I appreciate the first reply, the true root cause of this poor service/quality is not Congress, it's AMTRAK.
> I say this because on every train we rode last week, we found the worst possible morale among employees, with Leon as the one sterling exception. If they weren't lazy, or rude, or hiding, they were sitting in the first table of the dining car, the lounge car, or behind us in the last car of the train complaining loud, long, and vociferously of their lot.
> 
> There's no pride any longer. There's no attention to detail, care, or concern of the customer who is paying premium bucks for dirty facilities and the rest.


*absolutely*. one of the things that has always driven me crazy is how amtrak apologists will blame nearly everything related to poor customer service, cleanliness of facilities, or state of repair on 'congress' or 'lack of money' or something else(*). these same people always mention how most amtrak employees are 'hard-working' and only a few employees are rude and surly. really?!

we have been taking amtrak for almost all trips now, and i have always found that it is the 'hard-working' employees who are the exception -- not the rule. nearly every dining car staff has shown extraordinary laziness or lack of concern for customers: keeping the doors open when freezing in the vestibules, taking up space on multiple tables with condiments/napkins/whatever for which there is ample storage space elsewhere, sitting down and chatting with other OBS personnel while customers obviously wait for service, etc. most sleeping car attendants are never around, and when they are, they are almost uniformly rude and difficult. i have never -- never -- seen a coach attendant clean a restroom on a long-distance trip. never.

does this mean that everyone is like this? certainly not. we have seen our share of good, well-meaning employees. but four out of five seem to be lazy buggers who sit in the lounge/diner most of the trip and talk. i'm really not exaggerating here, and i don't have some grudge to push. we still take the train, but mostly because there is no competition in this space; if there were, you can bet we'd look elsewhere. we have given up recommending the service to others because most everyone who has taken us up on the challenge has similar experiences with lazy, rude, and surly employees from ticket agents to lounge attendants, from OBS personnel to conductors. this is a very sad statement to have to make.

this dominant attitude among OBS personnel (at least as we've seen) combined with the state of the cars -- and i'm talking about basic cleanliness here, nothing else -- is down to a lack of accountability and poor management. these people should have been fired long, long ago. but for some reason these 'fan' forums have members that reflexively defend these people like a union review board on steroids; and then they bring up other excuses that have something to do with funding levels. but when you are hired to do a job and fail to do so adequately, you are at fault. period. and when your managers either don't catch this, or alternatively do know about it and put up with it, then they are additionally at fault and what was previously one lazy and surly employee now becomes representative of an entire organization, including its members (few may they be) who do actually care about doing a good job.

-- eliyahu

waterbury, ct

_(*) just to be clear, i wasn't including alan's reply in this statement. his comment on comparatively poor food service being an outgrowth of a congressional mandate is spot on. whether or not such a mandate was poorly considered or not is in the eye of the beholder._


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2008)

Well I don't want to turn this into a political diatribe, but having just retired from the military this same exact attitude exists here. Our facilities were disgusting and competence had no bearing on hiring.

The entire government these days lacks any degree of pride. "Great job Brownie" writ large.

Shame they had to go and ruin the great thing that the train was.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 30, 2008)

I have constantly said Amtrak employees fall into two classes. The hard working ones, who are hyper nice, work the job of two people (sometimes for real, because they are compensating for their coworkers laziness) and deserve many times what they are paid. And then there are the stupid, inept, lazy arseholes who should be booted off the last car of the train, possibly while it is moving.

There are FAR too many of the latter, although I wouldn't call them the exception to the rule. I haven't seen that. *knocks on wood*. The way to get rid of these people is to call Amtrak, and complain about them, either by name, or by specific occupation (Example: the conductor between X and Y, the Sleeping car attendant on date X, sleeping car Y). Amtrak doesn't want these lazy, annoying idiots anymore than their customers do. They pay them for not doing a job, I mean come on.

However... there is a Union. A union who protects jobs. This union is intended to protect the jobs of the first type of person from too much cost cutting, among other things. The unfortunate thing is, protecting those deserving people also protects the idiots. Unless the CUSTOMER acts. With each complaint they receive about the lazy, surly actions of Sleeping Car Attendant Dom N. Lazi, they build up a sheet of good and justifiable reasons to can him.

Then they can go to the union, and show them this track record. They can say, dudes, we aren't trying to cut employees here. Look at this guy! We've recieved 15 complaints from a single run alone! He's making the other SCA, Harl A Werk, do half his job for him! Its simply not fair to Harl, to us, or our customers. And the Union will investigate it, find it to be true, and approve his being shown the door.


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## eliyahu (Mar 30, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> There are FAR too many of the latter, although I wouldn't call them the exception to the rule. I haven't seen that. *knocks on wood*. The way to get rid of these people is to call Amtrak, and complain about them, either by name, or by specific occupation (Example: the conductor between X and Y, the Sleeping car attendant on date X, sleeping car Y). Amtrak doesn't want these lazy, annoying idiots anymore than their customers do. They pay them for not doing a job, I mean come on.
> However... there is a Union. A union who protects jobs. This union is intended to protect the jobs of the first type of person from too much cost cutting, among other things. The unfortunate thing is, protecting those deserving people also protects the idiots. Unless the CUSTOMER acts. With each complaint they receive about the lazy, surly actions of Sleeping Car Attendant Dom N. Lazi, they build up a sheet of good and justifiable reasons to can him.


i am always heartened by comments from regular riders that they encounter more good than bad in employee quality. i suppose i can accept that our family and our friends seem to always get the bad apples for some reason. however -- and this was the point i was trying to make earlier -- i really don't think it should have to be the responsibility of customers to report poor on-job performance to amtrak. that is the responsibility of managers. if they cannot even track employee performance, then why are there so many of them? 

i realize that this is the current state of affairs, and because amtrak is (in many ways) poorly run, it is the hapless customer who is forced to deal with inexcusable customer service and then complain, hoping that eventually, somehow, those responsible for that aspect of a poor travel experience will be dealt with. but you are right, mr. lion: it is apparently up to us to push change for the better.

it is precisely because of ineptitude in the most basic aspects of managing a customer-facing organization -- such as control over employees -- that so much ample ammunition exists for those in congress and elsewhere who would deny reasonable capital funding levels for a more useful national rail network. from their view, why continue to entrust public monies to those that can't even seem to get their own employees to keep the trains clean. frankly, more and more amtrak customers come around to that view every day. only because of the absolute necessity to commerce in the northeast has amtrak been able to claim any sort of value proposition that allows for their continued existence. and this statement is coming from someone who uses amtrak for national travel nearly exclusively.

the company needs to get its act together because one day they may not be able to rely on the machinations of congressional politics to keep them breathing. one day they will have to live or die on the merit of their service and its value to customers and the nation that subsidizes it; and i fear on that day the company simply will melt away to be replaced by something else, at least if they cannot even find and hold responsible the plurality of lazy, surly, rude, and incompetent laborers to whom amtrak continues to entrust the traveling public.

sorry to have hijacked this thread. i assure my fellow posters i am usually not this negative: only when releasing the pent-up frustration that so many regular amtrak riders share and which so many railfans refuse to acknowledge as existing or legitimate.

p.s.: i would encourage the original poster to write amtrak, as alan has suggested, and to mention prominently leon and the post-new york conductor on #66. if amtrak cannot seem to find or handle those who fail to do an acceptable job, they probably don't reward excellence as much as they should either. i'm sure everyone here wants as much encouragement as possible to those who do make our travels pleasant, and that goes double for the hard-working, concerned OBS and station personnel out there!

-- eliyahu

waterbury, ct


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## Cascadia (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm counting my blessings that I've run into so many nice service personnel and station personnel in my travels, mostly on the Cascades. I wonder if the employees and policies vary much in different parts of the country? I know the Cascades is funded heavily by the Washington State Department of Transportation, do you think that makes a difference?

I also have a more limited experience than most posters here, who have ridden a lot more trains than I have and have had sleepers and sit down dining service.

I will throw this into the discussion though, you all were saying how hard it is for incompetent OBS people to get fired. I guess it's different for the guys who work in the yards. Apparently it's very easy to get fired when you work in the yards on the equipment. My friend who does both yard work and OBS work, says the policy is that when an incident happens, an accident or something like a car getting loose, etc, it is officially never equipment failure, it is always human failure, no matter what happened. And someone gets fired, that's the response to anything going wrong. That's what my friend told me anyway. This is in the Seattle Amtrak yards.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 30, 2008)

I have found more unpleasant Amtrak employees on the Silver Service trains than on most, I'll admit.


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## MrEd (Mar 30, 2008)

If you see some illegal activity on the train, what is best procedure ?

<Report any suspicious activity or unattended luggage by notifying Amtrak Police, personnel or by calling 1-800-331-0008. >


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## AlanB (Mar 30, 2008)

First, writing or calling definitely helps in all cases, be they good or bad. I'm not so sure about things submitted via comment form on the website, since no one has ever reported getting a response that way. But letters and phone calls do typically get into the employee's records. I've heard employees complaining about dressing downs that they've gotten because of a complaint.

And while I can't say what else Amtrak might do for an employee who gets a good letter/call, select letters do get printed in Amtrak Ink, the employee newsletter. So apparently at least some type of recognition is being made; even if the employee isn't receiving something more tangible.

Second, while it is possible that Amtrak is still a bit top heavy in management, it’s not like there are hundreds of managers just sitting around doing nothing. In fact under David Gunn, Amtrak management was reduced by over 500 positions. Since that point the size of the management staff has gone up by only 22 positions.

Next, many of those managers have duties that have absolutely nothing to do with OBS. You don’t send a manager trained to fix locomotives out onto the road to make sure that a sleeping car attendant is doing his/her job properly and nicely. It simply doesn’t make sense to do that; in fact it would be a horrible waste of money.

That said, there are managers who do ride the trains and more frequently than in the past. However the employees also know their managers. So only the worst and dumbest worker isn’t going to “show off” for the boss when he’s on board, and then go right back into his/her minimalist job ethics when the manager steps off the train.

And the managers can’t ride the trains 24/7. First off simply because that would be considered cruel and unusual treatment or Amtrak would have to triple the size of that type of manager. Plus they have training to do, I suspect they have to interview new hires, they probably at least assist in firings if they don’t actually do them, paperwork to push, and probably several other things that I’m not thinking about.

But again, most poor employees will perform better when the boss is around. So Amtrak must rely on customer input to help them in weeding out the bad eggs and hopefully rewarding the good eggs. This is one of the reasons that they have the Amtrak Survey running. It’s not because they like to give out free travel, it’s because they want feedback! By the way, the survey results and comments do seem to be monitored by Amtrak, even if the things submitted in the comment form on the general website aren’t.

As for employee moral, I’m certainly not suggesting that this excuses all. But please consider that it has to be at least a little bit hard to be bright and perky all day long over the course of a two day trip where you’re on duty perhaps as many as 20 hours in one day. Then add on top of that, surly customers who are yelling at you for things that are beyond your control. Like the train being late, broken items within the car, poor food quality, old tired equipment, and other issues that are beyond their control.

Then pile on top of all of that, the fact that these workers haven’t received a raise in 8 years! The fact that every year they have to watch the battle on Capital Hill to see if Amtrak is going to have enough money to pay them for next year so that they can keep their jobs, and then to see the President of the United States stand up and say that they aren’t worth anything when he submits a budget that includes zero dollars for Amtrak. If that latter isn’t demoralizing, I’m not sure what is. The leader of the Free World has just told you that you’re worth nothing in his mind.

Again, I’m not suggesting that this excuses all. It certainly doesn’t excuse the employee who is doing the absolute least that he/she can get away with doing. But if Johnny forgot to smile once in your presence, or if Sue forgot to bring you that cup of coffee she promised you that she’d bring, please try to remember some of the above items before you get mad and yell, or complain. It’s hard enough trying to be Up all the time and happy, without the above baggage hanging over your head.

And then there is the fact that moral and job ethics aren’t just an Amtrak problem, they seem to be a US problem. You can see these same problems in a retail store, a hotel, in the airport, or just about any place else. Amtrak is not unique in these issues.

Finally, please don’t forget that Amtrak is both a government creation and remains wholly owned by the US Government. That means that on top of Amtrak’s regular management, you still have the over 500+ members of Congress, as well as the White House, all of whom of late seem to like to micro-manage Amtrak. If we the people are unhappy with how things are being run, then we need to elect the right people to Congress and the White House. We need leaders who are going to put the right people in charge at Amtrak and properly fund it, so that maybe it can one day be more successful and better.

Let us not forget that the President put someone in charge of Amtrak whom many of us believed would indeed work to kill Amtrak. While I don’t agree with some of what the just departed Chairman of the Board did, one thing he didn’t do was to outright kill Amtrak. And he did make some moves that were very good for Amtrak. No doubt this is one reason that Mr. Laney stated in a recent news story that Mr. Bush was no longer speaking to him.


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## RailFanLNK (Mar 30, 2008)

Rode the CZ (5 and 6) last week and had GREAT crews! No dining car ****'s whatsoever! Have called Amtrak about the employees. Make for sure you have your ticket stub handy and the names of the offending or excellent employees that you want to call in on.


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## Guest_RidesOften_* (Apr 22, 2008)

I know the attendant You spoke of

He a Pleasure to be around I'll pass the word

Thanks for the thoughts it always a pleasure to say Thank You to a customer

LOVES FLA TRAINs :lol:


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## Railroad Bill (Apr 30, 2008)

I can say that 75-80% of the personnel on our Amtrak trips have been pleasant and performed their jobs to expectations and beyond. The one trip on the CZ last summer was one to remember with poor dining car staff and LSA who were incompetent. Yelling at passengers and berating anyone who had a question or concern. :angry: We personally experienced this less-than-professional attitude, but most everyone on the train felt the same way and after numerous cell phone calls from passengers (who did not like having dinner after 10 PM for an 7 PM reservation) to Amtrak, there was relief.

At Denver, Amtrak added another dining car staff member and had two supervisors on board who rode the train from Denver to Chicago--asking the sleeping car passengers if things were better now. Their presence was a big factor. Yes, calling can make a difference. Our CZ trip last January was like night and day with excellent staff, good food and wonderful winter scenes.

We have found that service on the western LD trains is considerable better overall than our eastern rides. Coming from the midwest, we have to get used to rude and sometimes lazy attitudes of Amtrak employees on some of the eastern trains.

Loving Amtrak!!


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## Green Maned Lion (Apr 30, 2008)

I wonder if your LSA was on their last trip...


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## Rail Freak (Apr 30, 2008)

Railroad Bill said:


> I can say that 75-80% of the personnel on our Amtrak trips have been pleasant and performed their jobs to expectations and beyond. The one trip on the CZ last summer was one to remember with poor dining car staff and LSA who were incompetent. Yelling at passengers and berating anyone who had a question or concern. :angry: We personally experienced this less-than-professional attitude, but most everyone on the train felt the same way and after numerous cell phone calls from passengers (who did not like having dinner after 10 PM for an 7 PM reservation) to Amtrak, there was relief. At Denver, Amtrak added another dining car staff member and had two supervisors on board who rode the train from Denver to Chicago--asking the sleeping car passengers if things were better now. Their presence was a big factor. Yes, calling can make a difference. Our CZ trip last January was like night and day with excellent staff, good food and wonderful winter scenes.
> 
> We have found that service on the western LD trains is considerable better overall than our eastern rides. Coming from the midwest, we have to get used to rude and sometimes lazy attitudes of Amtrak employees on some of the eastern trains.
> 
> Loving Amtrak!!


??? Please elaborate!!!


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