# "Extreme Trains" TV show on Acela



## AAARGH! (Nov 26, 2008)

I watched last night's episode of "Extreme Trains" on The History Channel. It was about a run of the Acela from Washington to Boston. Not a lot of depth; mostly the over-exuberant host saying "wow" to everything, including a draw bridge going up and down.

They digressed to other topics related (or semi-related) to the Acela, such as Acela train maintenance, how they make concrete track ties, track maintenance, catenary maintenance, that draw bridge, and the history of WUS and Penn Station.

Edit: And they did show the very cool NYP control center.

My only complaint is that they (yet again - every episode so far), digressed to a steam train museum to talk about steam locomotive maintenance. OK, for one episode, but not every episode. This has nothing to do with the Acela.

Anyone else see it?


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## spacecadet (Nov 26, 2008)

aaargh said:


> My only complaint is that they (yet again - every episode so far), digressed to a steam train museum to talk about steam locomotive maintenance. OK, for one episode, but not every episode. This has nothing to do with the Acela.


I didn't see it, but this sounds like what we in the media biz call "b-roll". It usually serves as filler.

My guess is that the budget on this show is not very high, and/or the schedules are very tight. So they'll go out and get whatever footage they can get, and if they come back and see they don't have enough (as it sounds like happens often), they'll intercut this steam locomotive maintenance b-roll into it.

I used to love History Channel but I can't watch it anymore. Seems like every cable channel now is trying to go "extreme", whether it's History or Discovery or Food Network or HGTV(?!). They've taken what used to be an informative and interesting network and turned it into a network full of supposedly telegenic hosts that just travel around and shout about how amazing everything they're looking at is. They've cranked up the volume while eliminating all the substance.

So the way you described this show doesn't surprise me.


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## Rafi (Nov 26, 2008)

Agreed on all counts. The guy's okay, but way too excited. I can't help but wish Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs was hosting—that's more of the tone I think would work. Alas, different network.

I don't mind the digressions to SteamTown as much, but heck, I would rather see an entire episode devoted to Steam Town. I get the idea they shot for more episodes than they ended up being asked to produce, so I think the SteamTown episode may have had to get chopped up and spread out. The series is great from the standpoint that we don't get series devoted to the topic much, but I can't help but think it could be done so it was a little more accessible and not as staccato in flow.

Ironically, the Acela engineer is also usually my 8:10 AM MARC train engineer to DC! I laughed out loud when he pulled the joke about not knowing what he was going to do when another train started coming toward him in the Hudson tunnel.

Rafi


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## MrEd (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought it was a good show. I really enjoy the extreme host.

I didn't know that was a bullet train till I watched the show.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Nov 26, 2008)

Rafi said:


> I can't help but wish Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs was hosting—that's more of the tone I think would work. Alas, different network.


Though, the gimmick on "Dirty Jobs" is watching Mike Rowe take over control of a peice of machinery, and then break it by accident, and make a huge mess. Probobly not the type of person for a show on trains...


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## spacecadet (Nov 26, 2008)

MrEd said:


> I didn't know that was a bullet train till I watched the show.


Didn't know what was a bullet train? Acela? How do you (or they) define "bullet train"?


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## AAARGH! (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought it was funny that they called the Acela 'green' because during dynamic braking, it puts power back onto the catenary 'for the next train to use'. Nevermind how much it uses to get up to that speed. Not that it's inefficient, but I would not call it green for that reason. Though compared to other modes of transportation, it is green-er.

Instead of going to the steam museum, I wish they had spend those few minutes on some other aspect of the Acela (or the trip itself). Why can't they find 47 minutes (or whatever it is) worth of material just on the Acela? At the worst, they can go into details of the Acela that maybe only rail fans would enjoy (not that we don't enjoy steam details). Better than this total digression off-topic that makes the already disjointed thing, more disjointed.

I wanted to see MORE of the Acela. While I was watiing for it to get back on topic, I was like the little kid holding his crotch trying not to pee his pants. I just couldn't wait! :huh:


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## AAARGH! (Nov 26, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> MrEd said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know that was a bullet train till I watched the show.
> ...


At one point they said a high-speed train (synonomous with Bullet train I guess) was any train that went faster than 124 MPH. So I guess that makes the NE Regional a Bullet train too.


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## Steve4031 (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought the explanation of the train's tilt system was interesting. I also enjoyed looking at the maintainance facility. I agree that the steam stuff is a digression, and a manifestation somehwat of the choo-choo train mentality that exists in this country. I not sure that this show was designed for knowledgeable hard core rail fans like us. I could see that it would be informative to someone like my girlfriend if I wanted her to understand more about the NEC.


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## the_traveler (Nov 26, 2008)

I still like when they always say "AE goes 150 MPH!" - when the truth is it only runs 150 MPH for a short stretch! Most of the run is well under 135 MPH! (In fact in SE Connecticut - from Waterford to the RI border - there are a few grade crossings!)

FYI - That "beach running" shot was at Niantic, CT - right along Long Island Sound!


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## spacecadet (Nov 26, 2008)

aaargh said:


> At one point they said a high-speed train (synonomous with Bullet train I guess) was any train that went faster than 124 MPH. So I guess that makes the NE Regional a Bullet train too.


Yeah, that's what I would have guessed was their definition. I hate the term "bullet train", it's become so meaningless. It used to be what we in the west called the original Japanese shinkansen trains, because the nose of the power car was literally shaped like a bullet and the word "shinkansen" didn't mean anything to us. Nowadays it's come to mean any high speed train anywhere, and even the term "high speed" seems to mean whatever the person using it wants it to mean.

I'm not sure how to get around that last part when referring to HSR, but almost anything would be better than the term "bullet train". Why not just "high speed train"? Does calling it a "bullet train" confer some imaginary status on it?


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## battalion51 (Nov 26, 2008)

There are definitely a few things they could've done for filler/digressions besides steam trains. Why not go out to Michigan and look at ITCS and how they're running high speed services with diesel services, and what a huge need that fills...


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## AlanB (Nov 26, 2008)

battalion51 said:


> There are definitely a few things they could've done for filler/digressions besides steam trains. Why not go out to Michigan and look at ITCS and how they're running high speed services with diesel services, and what a huge need that fills...


Actually I've heard that ITCS has been suspended for some reason on the Michigan route right now. Not sure how long it's going to last, much less why it's suspended. But people have seen non-ITCS equiped locmotives leading MI trains in the past few weeks.


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## battalion51 (Nov 26, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Actually I've heard that ITCS has been suspended for some reason on the Michigan route right now. Not sure how long it's going to last, much less why it's suspended. But people have seen non-ITCS equiped locmotives leading MI trains in the past few weeks.


I've heard the same as well. However, this special was filmed months ago, so ITCS was definitely up when it was filmed.


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## profwebs (Nov 26, 2008)

I see nobody else caught this. However, this guy is supposed to be a huge railfan and has some sort of job on the rails where he lives, but yet he FLEW into dc to film the show :blink:

I also thought they would show The Hell's Gate Bridge.


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## HP_Lovecraft (Nov 26, 2008)

profwebs said:


> However, this guy is supposed to be a huge railfan and has some sort of job on the rails where he lives.


There is no passenger rail service in Central Maine. The nearest station would be a couple hours away in Portland.

So, I'm sure it is more an issue of logistics. He may even have been contractually obligated to work within a time schedule that would have forced using the airlines.


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## MattW (Nov 26, 2008)

Or he wanted to fly in so he could compare the flight route to the Acela route and show why we need high-speed passenger service. He did say he was catching the Downeaster home.


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## access bob (Nov 26, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> MrEd said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know that was a bullet train till I watched the show.
> ...


I guess technically only the series "0" Shinkansen are true bullet trains.

Bob


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 26, 2008)

The Acela is, by no straight of the mind... an 'Extreme Train'...


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## access bob (Nov 26, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> The Acela is, by no straight of the mind... an 'Extreme Train'...


Oh yes it is, I worked on the NECIP and when we were starting we asked the Japanese, Germans, and French to come and offer suggestions, they all said the same thing, "it couldn't be done" but it was do it or no high speed on the North East Corridor.

all other high speed railroads in the world are two tracks one in each direction, exclusively for the high speed trains, one track goes in one direction the other goes the other direction, and mostly all built from the ground up.

the NEC has an average of three tracks, all bidirectional, there are commuter trains, regional trains, freight trains and high speed trains all running 24/7. This runs and works something that no one else has been able to do. and it was done without ever shutting the railroad down.

by every deffinition the Acela is an extreme train on an extreme railroad, probably more extreme than any other railroad on the planet.

Bob


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## the_traveler (Nov 26, 2008)

access bob said:


> on an extreme railroad


The extreme part is that Amtrak continues to operate on the limited budget it has received for the past 35+ years - and even tries to improve! :lol:


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## battalion51 (Nov 26, 2008)

And in all reality the term "Extreme trains", as mentioned previously, is more marketing than anything else. But if you do think about how crippled our country would be without them, it is pretty extreme.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm rewatching this right now.

I am starting to get sick of his pronounciation of 'acela'

it is not 'assela'


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## Rumpled (Nov 27, 2008)

Being on the West Coast here, what is the proper Acela pronunciation?

Also, I really hate the walking low angle shots of him waving his arms around.


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## access bob (Nov 27, 2008)

Rumpled said:


> Being on the West Coast here, what is the proper Acela pronunciation?
> Also, I really hate the walking low angle shots of him waving his arms around.


(short) "A" Cell (short) "A"

Bob


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 27, 2008)

access bob said:


> Rumpled said:
> 
> 
> > Being on the West Coast here, what is the proper Acela pronunciation?
> ...


My midwestern shows through when I ask for the neck 'Ack-cell-uh'

However this guy was holding onto the 'ce' sound... he also struck the first syllable hard to make it 'Ass-el-auh'


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## the_traveler (Nov 27, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > Rumpled said:
> ...


I prefer to pronounce it "*AE*" - much easier!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 27, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > on an extreme railroad
> ...


"The fastest train... on the continent..."

The only cool part about it was Penn's Central Control Room.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 27, 2008)

access bob said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > The Acela is, by no straight of the mind... an 'Extreme Train'...
> ...


But the BOS to DC average speed for the Acela Express is about 69 MPH. I believe the French have achieved more than double that, and I suspect they're not the only ones.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Nov 27, 2008)

aaargh said:


> I thought it was funny that they called the Acela 'green' because during dynamic braking, it puts power back onto the catenary 'for the next train to use'. Nevermind how much it uses to get up to that speed. Not that it's inefficient, but I would not call it green for that reason. Though compared to other modes of transportation, it is green-er.


Braking for curves and then speeding up is probably also less energy efficient than a train running on track that never requires the train to slow down.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 27, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> ...


The only thing 'extreme' about the Acela is that it does what it does with that little money and on the NEC with all of the bad spots of tracks, the curves, grade crossings, and bridges. I give them credit, the TGV and ICE don't have to deal with near as much crap.

But still, I have never taken the Acela for a reason-- between my most common city pairs (NYP-WAS, PHL-WAS, PHL-NYP) it rarely cuts more than 10 or fifteen minutes off my trip time.

Its an express train, if you made her take all local stops like any other regional train she probably wouldn't be a whole lot better than any other train on the corridor. It has the ability to go fast, but those regionals can match her speed in many sections of track.

I'll stick to my regionals.


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## spacecadet (Nov 28, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> But the BOS to DC average speed for the Acela Express is about 69 MPH. I believe the French have achieved more than double that, and I suspect they're not the only ones.


The fastest scheduled service in the world between terminals is Japan's Nozomi service between Shin-Osaka and Hakata, which averages 152mph.

(This isn't the fastest average between *any* two stations, but I thought it would be best to compare terminal to terminal stops.)

So yeah, kinda puts Acela to shame.


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## sechs (Nov 29, 2008)

HP_Lovecraft said:


> profwebs said:
> 
> 
> > However, this guy is supposed to be a huge railfan and has some sort of job on the rails where he lives.
> ...


I guess that you didn't catch that he was going to take the Downeaster "back home."

I was wondering if he knew that he needed to get from South to North Station....


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## sechs (Nov 29, 2008)

access bob said:


> Rumpled said:
> 
> 
> > Being on the West Coast here, what is the proper Acela pronunciation?
> ...


That's not what the conductor on my train said.

Most people with whom I've spoken say something like:

uh-sel'-uh

The difference between a short "a" and a schwa in the English language being so slim, it would be hard to casually tell if someone was pronouncing that first letter one way or the other.


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## spacecadet (Nov 29, 2008)

sechs said:


> access bob said:
> 
> 
> > Rumpled said:
> ...


The short "a" would seem to be more technically correct, given the roots of the name. But I've only ever heard it with the schwa sound.


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## Trogdor (Dec 2, 2008)

The guy on the show kept calling it the "Acellar." What with his New England(er) accent(er) and all(er).


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## VentureForth (Dec 2, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Joel N. Weber II said:
> 
> 
> > But the BOS to DC average speed for the Acela Express is about 69 MPH. I believe the French have achieved more than double that, and I suspect they're not the only ones.
> ...


With a max speed of 186 MPH.

I agree that it is rather extreme that the Acela can run as fast as it does on such busy bi-directional track. What tones that down a bit is that the Shinkansen can run as many as SIX trains an hour, including 2 Nozomi (Super express), 2 Hikari (Express) and 2 Kodama (stops at every stop).

The Kodama is pretty slow for a bullet train, averaging a mere 75 MPH on that route from Shin-Osaka to Hakata (622 km, 5:08) That's only 5 MPH higher than Acela between WAS and Providence, RI (414 Mi, 5:53).

So, I suppose that if the originally designated, world renowned, "Bullet Train" in Japan can be called such when they average 75 MPH between two terminals with their slowest trainset even after 40 years of service, the almost-there Acela can be called... the .22 of Bullet Trains. 

Maybe the cork in a pop gun?


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## spacecadet (Dec 2, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> The Kodama is pretty slow for a bullet train, averaging a mere 75 MPH on that route from Shin-Osaka to Hakata (622 km, 5:08) That's only 5 MPH higher than Acela between WAS and Providence, RI (414 Mi, 5:53).
> So, I suppose that if the originally designated, world renowned, "Bullet Train" in Japan can be called such when they average 75 MPH between two terminals with their slowest trainset even after 40 years of service, the almost-there Acela can be called... the .22 of Bullet Trains.


Well, they never called it a "bullet train" 

And we only called it that because the 0 series looked like one:







The newest models (700 and N700) look more like a duck than a bullet.






So I guess if these had been the first shinkansen instead of the newest ones, we'd all be calling high speed trains "duck trains" instead of "bullet trains".


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 2, 2008)

Did he call the Acela a bullet train? I forget--

Because if it is...






It is more of a hammer train to me


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## sky12065 (Dec 2, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > The Kodama is pretty slow for a bullet train, averaging a mere 75 MPH on that route from Shin-Osaka to Hakata (622 km, 5:08) That's only 5 MPH higher than Acela between WAS and Providence, RI (414 Mi, 5:53).
> ...


O< *AFLAK!*


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## VentureForth (Dec 3, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Well, they never called it a "bullet train"
> And we only called it that because the 0 series looked like one:


That's not entirely true. The original project name for the Shinkansen (新幹線, meaning "New Trunk Line") was "daggan ressha" (弾丸列車, meaning "Bullet Train"), so named for both the appearance _and_ the speed of the train. Since the "0" Series lasted for nearly 20 years without major modification, the moniker stuck. Almost all Shinkansen in Japan have an aerodynamic shaped nose. Most are now the duck nose. The 300 series "storm trooper" wasn't aerodynamic nor bullet shaped (oldest JR design in service). No one knows how that guy got into service... :huh:

Note on the de-nationalization of Japan's state-run rail service. As mentioned, only the 100-series Shinkansen was developed under the old JNR - nearly 20 years after Shinkansen started. Not gonna mention the 200, 'cause it has nearly the same shell as the "0". After privatization, now in its 20th year, JR has introduced 12 new models, and managed to turn a profit.


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## spacecadet (Dec 3, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > Well, they never called it a "bullet train"
> ...


Learn something new every day.

Still, they definitely do not call it that _anymore_, and I haven't heard a Japanese person say *either* "daggan ressha" or "bullet train" in, well, ever.


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## Bierboy (Dec 3, 2008)

MrEd said:


> I thought it was a good show. I really enjoy the extreme host.
> I didn't know that was a bullet train till I watched the show.


I loved the show but found the over-the-top host a bit too much. He could tone it down a few notches.


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## Bierboy (Dec 3, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> I still like when they always say "AE goes 150 MPH!" - when the truth is it only runs 150 MPH for a short stretch!..


IIRC, they said "...reaches speed of up to 150 mph..." or something similar. I don't ever recall them saying "...AE goes 150 mph..."


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## Kevin L. (Dec 3, 2008)

It would be nice if there was an "extreme" train out there, but I haven't seen one, and if there was, it'd be some novelty non-passenger train that we couldn't ride anyhow.


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## spacecadet (Dec 3, 2008)

Kevin L. said:


> Sadly, I'm not seeing anything "extreme" about anything featured in this show
> It would be nice if there was an "extreme" train out there, but I haven't seen one, and if there was, it'd be some novelty non-passenger train that we couldn't ride anyhow.


I'd say maglevs are still pretty extreme, in the real definition of that word (not the "eXXXXtreme!!!" TV definition, maybe).

I think the shinkansen trains are also pretty extreme, maybe not so much in their raw speed (a lot of high speed trains are similarly fast) but when you take the high speed and combine it with frequency (the last time I rode, they were coming every six minutes!), the extent of the network and stations, the number of different train types and the efficiency with which they run. It is truly an impressive sight in person - I had no idea what it was really like before I saw it and rode it. I have never seen a TV show that does this system justice.

If you mean "extreme" in terms of a train that does loop-de-loops or barrel rolls or something, well yeah, you're gonna need to just go to an amusement park for something like that. But there are trains out there that do things other trains don't do, and that are pushing the envelope of rail travel. And that's really what "extreme" means.

Acela is not that, though. It's extreme in North America, maybe - there's no other train like it here. But that doesn't mean much.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 3, 2008)

I hope that host realizes he set railroading back a few years with that--

"Oh my God I can't believe how powerful this thing is!!"

You been working round trains your entire life-- I have a VERY had time believing you find any of what you're doing in the least bit surprising, impressed, maybe.

Although I have to admit it was a little funny to see him keep derailing in the simulator... heheh


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## Crescent ATN & TCL (Dec 3, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I hope that host realizes he set railroading back a few years with that--
> "Oh my God I can't believe how powerful this thing is!!"
> 
> You been working round trains your entire life-- I have a VERY had time believing you find any of what you're doing in the least bit surprising, impressed, maybe.
> ...


The best I can tell the railroad he works on shuffles a few cars along at very low speeds with and outdated diesel that has maybe 2000hp so being in an Acela pulling 6 cars with 2 6000hp locos is probably very different to him, although I agree he's still over the top. At least he's not half-dead like most History Channel hosts.


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## access bob (Dec 3, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Kevin L. said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, I'm not seeing anything "extreme" about anything featured in this show
> ...



I always have thought of the Shinkansen as the worlds fastest subway........ just about as packed too.

mostly ride the Joetsu line which is about 50% underground.

12 car "MAX" trains at sub 15 minute headways at 150mph.

Bob


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## spacecadet (Dec 4, 2008)

access bob said:


> I always have thought of the Shinkansen as the worlds fastest subway........ just about as packed too.
> mostly ride the Joetsu line which is about 50% underground.
> 
> 12 car "MAX" trains at sub 15 minute headways at 150mph.


Getting a little OT here, hope nobody minds...

From what I've seen, different lines and fare bases will give you a pretty different experience. I know from my own experience that non-reserved cars are entirely different from reserved cars. Non-reserved can feel like a commuter train - there is almost no legroom between seats, and there are often a lot of standees during rush hours. Reserved cars never have standees and they have more legroom - even at 6'4, I could cross my legs easily. (And there aren't many 6'4 guys in Japan!) My wife was able to put a big suitcase in front of her knees and still be comfortable.

I'm not sure if the Joetsu line has "green cars" either, some lines do, some don't. I've never ridden in one, but with 2+1 seating (in some trains) and more legroom than reserved coach, I can't imagine it would feel very subway-like.

The Tokaido line also goes through the mountains, as do some others, so it doesn't feel like a subway.

It's too bad they got rid of the "restaurant cars", though... but I guess they're not really needed when the average trip is about 2 hours or less.

Look at this schedule board from the last time I rode: http://photos1.blogger.com/photoInclude/bl...00/_MG_2492.jpg

Shinkansen to Tokyo at 10:26, 10:32, 10:35, and 10:39! Then you start to get into off-peak time. But that's crazy, every 4-5 minutes during rush hours for a train that goes almost 200mph. That's pretty "extreme". They must have some pretty amazing signaling and train control.


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## access bob (Dec 4, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > Well, they never called it a "bullet train"
> ...



couple quick notes.

. last "0" series shinkansen was finally withdrawn from service on JR west just last week on 30 Nov 2008 (44 years of service!!!)

. the 300 series has what I think the nicest looking nose profile, not sure how "aerodynamic" it actually was but I liked it, sure beats the "pregnant guppy" MAX

. JR only turns a profit on opperations of the Shinkansen, the Gov still finances the capitol construction. (and when you conrsider the costs of competing services the high price is actually competitive) nothing like an old narrow guage train to actually save money though.. the trip from Tokyo-to (Ueano) to Takasaki (my most common trip) is less than half the cost on conventional as is on Shinkansen.

hope they eventually get the Shinkansen all the way to Sapporo thru the Sieken tunnel now that will be a trip.

Bob


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## Steve4031 (Dec 4, 2008)

Some day . . . Im gonna get over to Japan and ride all of the bullet train lines. I wonder what green class is like? When I last looked at rail pass prices, I would probably have gone for that.


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## spacecadet (Dec 4, 2008)

Steve4031 said:


> Some day . . . Im gonna get over to Japan and ride all of the bullet train lines. I wonder what green class is like? When I last looked at rail pass prices, I would probably have gone for that.


Having looked in the cars (but not ridden one), they seem to be basically like Amtrak business class, but with a center arm rest. They do still have a real cloth hair protector thing, though.

Not all green cars are 2+1 like I said, though; in fact most may not be. I've seen them both ways but 2+2 seems more common. Still, there's a good amount of seat pitch.

Most Japanese I've talked to think green cars are not worth it - they always seem pretty lightly occupied when I've seen them. But I think the fairly small price difference on the rail pass (which is only available to foreigners) makes it more worth it.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 4, 2008)

That lightly occupied part is a key aspect. I don't like having people jammed up on me if I can avoid it. I know that Japan is crowded, and have no problem with that. A lightly filled train car allows the opportunity to move from one seat to another to check out the scenery.


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## MattW (Dec 4, 2008)

Crescent ATN & TCL said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > I hope that host realizes he set railroading back a few years with that--
> ...


Actually, I looked it up. He works on Pan Am Railways which is a class II like FEC, Montana Rail Link etc. More than a pair of 2000 horsepower diesels shuttling a few carloads back and forth every few days at low speeds.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 4, 2008)

Rafi said:


> I don't mind the digressions to SteamTown as much, but heck, I would rather see an entire episode devoted to Steam Town. I get the idea they shot for more episodes than they ended up being asked to produce, so I think the SteamTown episode may have had to get chopped up and spread out. The series is great from the standpoint that we don't get series devoted to the topic much, but I can't help but think it could be done so it was a little more accessible and not as staccato in flow.
> Rafi


I watched this week's episode on the UP Produce Express from Washington state to PA. Again they were at SteamTown. I agree; they were going to have an entire episode on steam trains, but ended up splitting it up as filler.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 4, 2008)

aaargh said:


> Rafi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mind the digressions to SteamTown as much, but heck, I would rather see an entire episode devoted to Steam Town. I get the idea they shot for more episodes than they ended up being asked to produce, so I think the SteamTown episode may have had to get chopped up and spread out. The series is great from the standpoint that we don't get series devoted to the topic much, but I can't help but think it could be done so it was a little more accessible and not as staccato in flow.
> ...


Though this episode I watched the credits and prieveiws very carefully- and I did see him standing at the front of a P42.. I assume that means he's gonna take a trip on a Superliner?


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## MattW (Dec 4, 2008)

Yea, the Southwest Chief if I remember the show schedule correctly.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 4, 2008)

MattW said:


> Yea, the Southwest Chief if I remember the show schedule correctly.


I would have preferred the EB, but I'll take what Amtrak can get.

No doubt the journey we have all made, collectivley, thousands of times will suddenly become EXTREMEEEEE!!!


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## VentureForth (Dec 5, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Steve4031 said:
> 
> 
> > Some day . . . Im gonna get over to Japan and ride all of the bullet train lines. I wonder what green class is like? When I last looked at rail pass prices, I would probably have gone for that.
> ...


I agree. The 100-series green car I rode was 2+2 with more pitch. But, frankly, the pitch for the average Japanese Joe-san is not that bad in coach. As far as I can remember, and I think it's still this way, reserved coach and unreserved coach on the Shinkansen is the same configuration. Note that reserved over there really means a reserved SEAT. Not just the promise for a seat. Unreserved means that you may or may not get a seat. Though technically, there are no provisions for standing on the shinkansen, it does happen - particularly in May and August during major holidays.

Sad to hear that the last "0" is gone. I actually remember a sort of cafe car on those old runs in the early 80s. I knew they had dining cars, too... I can't remember if those old, original trainsets had lavatories that opened up to the track. I know that the regular limited expresses did, but I can't remember the Shinkansen.

Any one have any idea what sort of rerun schedule Extreme Trains is going to have?


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## spacecadet (Dec 5, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> I agree. The 100-series green car I rode was 2+2 with more pitch. But, frankly, the pitch for the average Japanese Joe-san is not that bad in coach. As far as I can remember, and I think it's still this way, reserved coach and unreserved coach on the Shinkansen is the same configuration.


Maybe now it is; it didn't seem to be when I've compared them. When I rode unreserved in 2000 (the one time I've done it), my knees were pressed against the seat in front of me. When I've ridden reserved, I've had about 8 inches of free space in front of me.

Either that, or it's a difference between train types or service. The time I rode unreserved was on a 100 series Kodama train. I've ridden reserved on 300 and 700 series Nozomi trains. I could see Nozomi being treated more like a long-distance trains, with Kodama service being configured more for commuters.

Edit: according to byun byun shinkansen, the 100 series trains had shorter pitch originally, so maybe that was my experience. However, it does also say that some trains have 3+2 seating in non-reserved cars and 2+2 in reserved cars, so the configuration isn't always the same between them. The seat pitch is now apparently standardized at 1040mm, though, which Google tells me is 41 inches.


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## had8ley (Dec 5, 2008)

The only thing I find extreme about this show is the host. Besides his booming voice, is he riding the high iron for the first time? I have NEVER, in over 40 years, seen a set of wheels, or trucks, changed underneath a main line train unless a bearing broke and the journal dropped but never any scalloped wheels until now. They make it look easy to do but the wheel change process takes a long time, delays a lot of other trains (especially in single track territory) and the track side conditions are not always as perfect as in the show. All in all, I would say that our host is what we called an 'accidental train buff"~ he just happened along at the right time to get a RR job.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 5, 2008)

had8ley said:


> The only thing I find extreme about this show is the host. Besides his booming voice, is he riding the high iron for the first time? I have NEVER, in over 40 years, seen a set of wheels, or trucks, changed underneath a main line train unless a bearing broke and the journal dropped but never any scalloped wheels until now. They make it look easy to do but the wheel change process takes a long time, delays a lot of other trains (especially in single track territory) and the track side conditions are not always as perfect as in the show. All in all, I would say that our host is what we called an 'accidental train buff"~ he just happened along at the right time to get a RR job.


He said he's a conductor-- he sounds like he may be a decent conductor for something like a scenic RR.

I can't see any union would let that guy be a conductor.


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## had8ley (Dec 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing I find extreme about this show is the host. Besides his booming voice, is he riding the high iron for the first time? I have NEVER, in over 40 years, seen a set of wheels, or trucks, changed underneath a main line train unless a bearing broke and the journal dropped but never any scalloped wheels until now. They make it look easy to do but the wheel change process takes a long time, delays a lot of other trains (especially in single track territory) and the track side conditions are not always as perfect as in the show. All in all, I would say that our host is what we called an 'accidental train buff"~ he just happened along at the right time to get a RR job.
> ...


I heard there's a vacancy for a conductor at the Baton Rouge zoo train. He just might fill the bill.

Unless something really "extreme" shows up I'll not tune in and IF I do the volume will be at 0.


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## dan72 (Dec 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> MattW said:
> 
> 
> > Yea, the Southwest Chief if I remember the show schedule correctly.
> ...


Yeah, I can just hear him now:

"This is Raton Pass...LOOK! It's Dick Wooton's Ranch! And the Colorado/New Mexico Border and the RATON TUNNEL!!!! This is AMAZING! And now, we're in Apache Canyon where the rock face is just INCHES form our windows. THIS IS EXTREEME!!" :blink:

His enthusiasm is nice, but he really needs to lay off the crack just a bit... :lol:

Dan


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## dan72 (Dec 6, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing I find extreme about this show is the host. Besides his booming voice, is he riding the high iron for the first time? I have NEVER, in over 40 years, seen a set of wheels, or trucks, changed underneath a main line train unless a bearing broke and the journal dropped but never any scalloped wheels until now. They make it look easy to do but the wheel change process takes a long time, delays a lot of other trains (especially in single track territory) and the track side conditions are not always as perfect as in the show. All in all, I would say that our host is what we called an 'accidental train buff"~ he just happened along at the right time to get a RR job.
> ...


If the looks the engineers are giving him on some of the trains he's ridden on are any indication, I would suspect most really want to SMACK him!

Dan


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## chuljin (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm watching tonight's episode right now. It's about UP's Frontier Days train, pulled by the enormous 844, which, even for someone like me with no interest in steam trains, is most impressive. I especially like the water tank car behind the engine, and its 24 (? 28?) wheels.

Unusually for a passenger train, it's not having trouble with UP freight interference.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 10, 2008)

chuljin said:


> I'm watching tonight's episode right now. It's about UP's Frontier Days train, pulled by the enormous 844, which, even for someone like me with no interest in steam trains, is most impressive. I especially like the water tank car behind the engine, and its 24 (? 28?) wheels.
> Unusually for a passenger train, it's not having trouble with UP freight interference.


I found him to be more annoying than ever in this episode.

"Three toots means move out of the way-- suckas..."


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## HP_Lovecraft (Dec 10, 2008)

chuljin said:


> I especially like the water tank car behind the engine.


I thought that was the an oil tank? (runs on oil instead of coal).

I was a bit confused by the consist, so I looked it up:

UP 844

UPP 81x (auxiliary tender)

UP 6936 (World's coolest diesel helper)

UPP 6334 Art Lockman (tool & support car)

UPP 209 Howard Fogg (Generator car)

UPP 2066 (Generator car. Dig that hunchback! Holy cow!)

UPP 119 Kenefick (biz car)

UPP 100 St. Louis (biz car, platform forward)

UPP 7011 Missouri River Eagle (Dome Diner)

UPP 8004 Colorado Eagle (Dome Diner)

UPP 5486 City of Salina (Coach)

UPP 5473 Portland Rose (Coach)

UPP 5480 Sunshine Special (Coach)

UPP 7015 Challenger (Dome)

UPP 5818 Sherman Hill (Concession car)

UPP 5769 (baggage car with flag decal on side. Named Council Bluffs, but I didn’t see it)

UPP 5468 Katy Flyer (Coach)

UPP 5483 Texas Eagle (Coach)

UPP 7001 Columbine (Dome)

UPP 5011 City of Denver (Diner)

UPP 4808 City of Los Angeles (Diner)

UPP 8008 City of Portland (Dome Diner)

UPP 208 (Generator car)

UPP 9005 Walter Dean (Dome Lounge)

UPP 9009 City of San Francisco (Dome Lounge)

UPP 103 Cheyenne (Biz car)


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## VT Hokie (Dec 10, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> "Three toots means move out of the way-- suckas..."


LOL...I find it amusing! :lol:


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## OlympianHiawatha (Dec 10, 2008)

As much as he likes to compare steam to diesel, I'm surprised he didn't talk about the DD40 "helper" and at least explain why is was there for the pedestrian viewer who might otherwise be confused. At least we got a quick walk through of some of the cars. I understand UP bends over backwards to make sure that fleet is PERFECT inside and out.

And the yellow tender originally ran with steam before being converted to a tender for one of the Gas Turbines.


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## had8ley (Dec 10, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> I understand UP bends over backwards to make sure that fleet is PERFECT inside and out.


Yeah, you're right~I've either been in or ridden on most of these cars. They are truly magnificent and are museum quality. For the volume of pax they deserve an A plus for keeping the cars in such excellent shape. You could eat off the floor of any one of them including the tool car; I have never seen the first sign of rust on any of this equipment. The domes may not get washed on the EB but they do every night on a UP biz train  .


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## sky12065 (Dec 10, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> chuljin said:
> 
> 
> > I'm watching tonight's episode right now. It's about UP's Frontier Days train, pulled by the enormous 844, which, even for someone like me with no interest in steam trains, is most impressive. I especially like the water tank car behind the engine, and its 24 (? 28?) wheels.
> ...


And I always thought that three toots mean't too many baked beans the night before! :huh:


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## dan72 (Dec 10, 2008)

I see that next week is the EB to Seattle...

Yeah, I would like to have learned more about the diesel as part of the consist as well.

I have to give UP credit, they are second to none when it comes to historical preservation.


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## sechs (Dec 10, 2008)

Maybe they could move past these historical tracks they run on....


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## VT Hokie (Dec 11, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> Maybe now it is; it didn't seem to be when I've compared them. When I rode unreserved in 2000 (the one time I've done it), my knees were pressed against the seat in front of me. When I've ridden reserved, I've had about 8 inches of free space in front of me.
> Either that, or it's a difference between train types or service. The time I rode unreserved was on a 100 series Kodama train. I've ridden reserved on 300 and 700 series Nozomi trains. I could see Nozomi being treated more like a long-distance trains, with Kodama service being configured more for commuters.


I've never been to Japan, but I sat in the Shinkansen at the Railway Museum in York (UK). I think my knees were pretty much up against the seatback in front of me.


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## AAARGH! (Dec 11, 2008)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> As much as he likes to compare steam to diesel, I'm surprised he didn't talk about the DD40 "helper" and at least explain why is was there for the pedestrian viewer who might otherwise be confused. At least we got a quick walk through of some of the cars. I understand UP bends over backwards to make sure that fleet is PERFECT inside and out.
> And the yellow tender originally ran with steam before being converted to a tender for one of the Gas Turbines.


I watched the 844 steam episode last night on DVR. I really enjoyed it. I guess I'm getting used to the host's exhuberance. This time they stayed on topic the whole time. There was continuity to the show.

I saw the DD40 deisel helper. Is this a normal UP engine? It looked much bigger (longer) than the ones I have seen in the past on regular freight routes.

Funny, the "steam" episode is the only one so far where they didn't visit Steam Town. :blink: Go figure.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 11, 2008)

AAARGH said:


> OlympianHiawatha said:
> 
> 
> > As much as he likes to compare steam to diesel, I'm surprised he didn't talk about the DD40 "helper" and at least explain why is was there for the pedestrian viewer who might otherwise be confused. At least we got a quick walk through of some of the cars. I understand UP bends over backwards to make sure that fleet is PERFECT inside and out.
> ...


The UP 6936 is the only Centennial still maintained. IIRC it is a the largest diesel/electric in the world.


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## the_traveler (Dec 11, 2008)

AAARGH said:


> Funny, the "steam" episode is the only one so far where they didn't visit Steam Town. :blink: Go figure.


I didn't see the episode (yet), but I was just going to ask that very question. Even the AE episode went to Steam Town, but a steam train episode did not? :huh:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Dec 11, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> AAARGH said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, the "steam" episode is the only one so far where they didn't visit Steam Town. :blink: Go figure.
> ...


Nope. Its hard to believe they were going to make two steam train episodes... so whats amazing is that this means Steam Town shots were intended to be filler from the start!

Although I must concede... this is the most extreme train yet. I mean, it takes a whole lot of work to keep her running and that is nothing short of amazing..


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## AAARGH! (Dec 11, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Although I must concede... this is the most extreme train yet. I mean, it takes a whole lot of work to keep her running and that is nothing short of amazing..


I agree. All of the episodes up until this were on 'normal' everyday runs. This was special because it isn't something you can just see any old time. Does that make it 'extreme' (an overused term)? Compared to the others they have looked at, yes, just based on the effort alone.

Of course I am assuming 'extreme' to be synonymous with "intersting", "unique", and "rail fan worthy".  Showing the (automobile) cars chasing the 884 up I-25 is proof.


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## battalion51 (Dec 11, 2008)

Just to back up to the Centennial thing real quick. The Centennials were massive engines that were tried as an experiment. They're basically two GP40's on one car body. This explains the small gap halfway down the long hood. The theory was that there would be less maintenance to be done on one big engine than there would be on two smaller engines. The issues cropped up when one would die on the road, leaving the train without a large amount of horsepower. Like most high horsepower experiments the idea didn't take off, and not too many were produced.


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## had8ley (Dec 12, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> AAARGH said:
> 
> 
> > OlympianHiawatha said:
> ...


I believe you are correct about the 6936 being the largest engine at least in North America, if not the world. It almost went to the scrap heap about 10 years ago. We were sitting in the depot in Donaldsonville, LA and we watched a business car special being pulled by the 6936, headed to New Orleans, go by us. Not ten minutes later we hear all sorts of radio traffic coming from St. James, LA A sugar cane mill dump truck was crossing the track and didn't beat the biz train. Unfortunately, an official wanted to be on the head end and ride over the Huey P. Long on the engine. He was thrown into the nose of the engine and died from the mud the truck was carrying to dump in a field on th opposite side of the tracks. IIRC, he was in his early 40's. The 6936 was towed to Little Rock and the decision was made to save it although it really looked awful.


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## Rail Freak (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm presently watching Extreme Trains on the History Channel.

UP 844 Steam Locamotive!!!


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## Rail Freak (Dec 13, 2008)

Now, history channel on FDR & trains!


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## Shanghai (Dec 13, 2008)

I watched the 844 episode today. It was interesting and informative.

I also watch the Trains & Locomotives show on the RFD Channel.

It is broadcast on Monday at 6:00pm, EST.


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## profwebs (Dec 13, 2008)

Shanghai said:


> I also watch the Trains & Locomotives show on the RFD Channel.It is broadcast on Monday at 6:00pm, EST.


I had thought of mentioning this also. It is on Saturday mornings at 9 as well. I watched it last Saturday for the first time in a while and it has gotten better. RFD is channel 231 on Dish Network FYI.


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## Krisscop (Dec 16, 2008)

MY SISTER is on TONIGHTS Extreme train show the Seattle to Chicago Run. She'll be the tall red headed beauty!! I CAN"T WAIT!!


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## Gingee (Dec 16, 2008)

I have it on now. I will look for her.


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## Gingee (Dec 16, 2008)

Is your sister a room attendant? Is her name Doris?


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