# Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad



## v v (Oct 19, 2020)

Moderators, please move this if inappropriate for this section.

We are not usually customers of private or tourist rail, it's just not our thing. We prefer long distance commuter train journeys and would include all of the LD Amtrak trains in that. We may be passing close to Durango and if the Silverton ride is a trip of a lifetime it would be silly not to take the opportunity of riding such a famous rail line. 

Is it worth the cost and spending a whole day at this?

Thanks


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## railiner (Oct 19, 2020)

I don’t know if I would go so far as calling it “a trip of a lifetime”, but... if you are passing close to Durango, admire beautiful scenery, as well as historic steam powered railroading, it doesn’t get much better than the Silverton train...


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 19, 2020)

v v said:


> Moderators, please move this if inappropriate for this section.
> 
> We are not usually customers of private or tourist rail, it's just not our thing. We prefer long distance commuter train journeys and would include all of the LD Amtrak trains in that. We may be passing close to Durango and if the Silverton ride is a trip of a lifetime it would be silly not to take the opportunity of riding such a famous rail line.
> 
> ...


It's a nice trip Jamie, also check out the Cumbres and Toltec RR which runs between Northern New Mexico and Southetn Colorado.

I enjoyed it more than the Durango Trip, but if yall have time, why not do Both! ( I have a High School Friend that works on the C&T so got to ride Free!)


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## me_little_me (Oct 19, 2020)

We've been on a lot of tourist railroads and the two best in the country are the Silverton and Durango and the Cumbres & Toltec. They are both worth the day each. We took the C&T once and the D&S about half a dozen times (mostly before the C&T was open to the public.

Personally, I think the D&S has the better scenery as it goes along the edge of a steep canyon with the river well below at times and near the same level at others. Silverton is a fun stop (well - was before Covid) as it is only a few blocks in any direction before you hit the base of the mountains but full of historic buildings. The D& S is privately owned. I'd take the morning train out and the bus back (if they are still doing that) as it's the same albeit spectacular scenery on both trains. You'll save time at the end of the day by returning by the earlier-arriving bus.

The C&T is owned by the states of Colorado and NM and, while not as spectacular in scenery, is equal in enjoyment and is, nonetheless, also spectacular. They (used to) give you an excellent sit-down turkey lunch at a stop halfway there and the opportunity to see some track a few rail miles away, yet only a few hundred feet from where you are as well as the ability to have your own seat but are able to go to the open-air car to take pictures, makes it well worth the trip. 

You will not regret either one of the trips. They are both NOT TO BE MISSED whether you are a railfan or just a tourist.


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## railiner (Oct 20, 2020)

Just think...at one time you could board a train at Denver Union Station, and ride all the way to Silverton, covering BOTH of those now tourist railroads...


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## v v (Oct 20, 2020)

Just taking a break as it's raining and first thanks everyone, usual superb information from this forum.

Working out approximate routes makes the Durango-Silverton train easier to access as we would pass through the town anyway. For the Chama- Antonito C&T we would have to detour.


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## Maglev (Oct 20, 2020)

For me, the Durango and Silverton was indeed the trip of a lifetime. To spend a beautiful day riding a steam-powered train in some of the most dramatic scenery on earth would be memorable for anyone. We upgraded to the parlor car on the end of the train, and were able to sip champagne on the open rear platform.

Durango is a fun town, with lots of Rocky Mountain charm, and in itself is well worth a visit. Which I did: I lived in Hawaii when we rode the D&S train, and we returned to Durango a few years later to visit friends.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 20, 2020)

Maglev said:


> For me, the Durango and Silverton was indeed the trip of a lifetime.


Same here! Although I did it more than once so maybe that disqualifies me? 



Bob Dylan said:


> check out the Cumbres and Toltec RR


I haven't done this yet but I do plan to ride them after the pandemic calms down.


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## Maglev (Oct 20, 2020)

I found some photos of the Durango and Silverton. It was part of a fantastic excursion around the Four Corners area in 1990. We also stayed at Mesa Verde National Park, rode the Grand Canyon Railroad, and rode horses into Havasu Canyon. My wife was a big fan of Zane Grey, and we visited his Arizona cabin two weeks before it burned down.


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## Maglev (Oct 20, 2020)

More...


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 20, 2020)

When I was a little boy the promotional brochures showed tracks next to steep cliffs that looked kind of scary but when we rode the actual train it was exhilarating to look out and see canyons below you. I remember looking over a cliff edge and seeing a busy river and wondering how they managed to build it like that. Not that long ago I saw a photo that seemed to show fences installed along some of the tracks and hope that's not really the case. The original experience was great but it wouldn't be the same with Darwin nets cluttering up the view.


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## caravanman (Oct 20, 2020)

It was my intention to ride the Toltec train when driving in that area, but sadly the train was fully booked when I arrived. Some nice shots here of the loco's though:

Sunshine and Steam...


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## v v (Oct 20, 2020)

Looks like the D-S is a must do now, so many here have happy memories. 

With a little research found a campground (United Campgrounds) just north of the town, it's on the Durango trolley route. What's amazing is the railway runs right through the campground, how fabulous.

Much of what was written above strikes a cord with us for our next US journey, to visit many National and State parks as well as natural wonders of America. We have tended recently to travel city to city, town to town, now it's our chance at America the beautiful and this fits in just so well as it includes a train as a bonus.

Thanks


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## PVD (Oct 20, 2020)

Last time I went from Denver to COS I finally had the time to hit the cog railway up Pikes Peak. Sadly, it had closed for a total rebuild. Work is underway, maybe ready for next year. Some interesting material on line at the Broadmoor website (they own it)


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 20, 2020)

PVD said:


> Last time I went from Denver to COS I finally had the time to hit the cog railway up Pikes Peak. Sadly, it had closed for a total rebuild. Work is underway, maybe ready for next year. Some interesting material on line at the Broadmoor website (they own it)


This is a great ride, as is Driving to the top! Not for those with a fear of heights!!!


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## PVD (Oct 20, 2020)

There are a number of great scenic or special short runs, but there sure aren't too many cog rr in the US. Not sure if Mt Washington is the only other one in the US. 
New snowblower from Zaugg, new train cars from Stadler in Switzerland....almost a complete rebuild/replace....


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## Willbridge (Oct 20, 2020)

One of my neighbors in Denver was a steam AND narrow-gauge fan. He loved the Silverton train and couldn't understand why I hadn't gotten around to riding it (I was too busy with electric traction on a standard-gauge light rail system). His dream was to work as a fireman on the D&S when he retired from the telephone company. A progressive nerve disease ended that dream. When he was dying he asked to have his ashes spread along the right-of-way at a specific point where there were mountain views in all directions. And as a sidelight he asked that I do the Bible reading. Now I HAD to get out there and my neighbor was right. It was a memorable trip.

I apologize to those who've heard this story before but ride the Silverton train before someone makes you do it. It's the ride of a lifetime.


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## Palmland (Oct 21, 2020)

When my wife and I were dating while in college in Ft. Collins we ‘studied’ in the Rockies. On a memorable camping trip we rode the D&S and loved it. Been back many times since and would certainly recommend it. But I would agree the C&TS is just as enjoyable and in some ways seems more like a ‘real’ railroad.

You may want to call the D&S before riding To check on what engines they’re running. Because of fire danger from coal smoke they have recently bought a few diesels. While the view would be just as spectacular, it would lose some of the appeal to us.


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## railiner (Oct 21, 2020)

Too bad they didn’t instead convert them into oil-burners...


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## v v (Oct 21, 2020)

Palmland said:


> You may want to call the D&S before riding To check on what engines they’re running. Because of fire danger from coal smoke they have recently bought a few diesels. While the view would be just as spectacular, it would lose some of the appeal to us.



Are the engines swapped according to seasonal changes ie at the end of a summer, or are they changed on a day to day basis? 

We wont have much leeway on dates as this is a part of a much longer journey and I hear that some popular campgrounds become fully booked frequently so booking ahead may be a must.


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## JayPea (Oct 21, 2020)

I have had the Durango and Silverton plus the Cumbres and Toltec on my bucket list for some time. I think I might wait until 2022, however. I still have another item or two on that list before it.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 21, 2020)

Yes, it is definitely worth it. Consider taking one of the cars with historical narration. We took the car with the "first newspaperwoman of Durango" in the dress of her time who provided a wonderful commentary of the sites along the way and the history of the sites as well as the railroad. Very memorable and what with living so close to Durango, we'll be sure going again also. Same for the Cumbres and Toltec line, but we didn't have any narration along the way, just the beautiful scenery. While we took this latter line, the train actually picked up some backpackers along the way, so apparently that's another service they provide.

When we did the Durango-Silverton train, we stayed at the General Palmer Hotel which is a historical hotel right next to the train station. I think General Palmer also was active in the railroad industry back when this line was built. We enjoyed staying there and I recommend it if you decide to not camp. The Strater Hotel, another historical hotel, is also close to the train station and we visited the bar there because my sister loves historical hotels.


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## ehbowen (Oct 21, 2020)

I'm late to this thread; I've ridden the Durango train (round trip) twice and the Cumbres & Toltec (bus out, train return from/to Chama) once. I would do both again in a heartbeat. One thing I'll say, though...spend the little bit extra and ride in the Parlor car, or perhaps on the Durango train the Silver Vista. The personal service is worth all the premium they ask for it and more.

Photos from a 2007 trip with Mom & Dad in the parlor car of the Durango train:






Photos from a 2010 trip with Dad in the parlor car of the Cumbres & Toltec:


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## ehbowen (Oct 21, 2020)

Oh, yes...don't forget to take along a warm jacket on both trains, regardless of what time of year you're traveling. You'll be going up to 9000 feet elevation in Silverton, and over 10,000 feet at the summit of Cumbres Pass. Mountain weather can be very chancy...in 2003, Mom & I were traveling in late summer and we had snow flurries on the way back from Silverton!


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## Palmland (Oct 21, 2020)

v v said:


> Are the engines swapped according to seasonal changes ie at the end of a summer, or are they changed on a day to day basis?


While they have taken delivery of the diesels (bought from the Whitepass and Yukon RR in Skagway, which you may have ridden, the initial plans are to use for maintenance trains and shorter excursions to Cascade Canyon and not on the full route to Silverton. Best check wtih them if you're concerned about it and be aware of this from their website.:
*"Damage to the train tracks south of Silverton are preventing the trains from going all the way to Silverton this season. The D&SNG Railroad expects to offer full service to Silverton on May 2, when the 2021 Spring/Summer season begins. To be notified when the 2021 schedule and fares are published, please call 866.675.6900 to be put on our “contact list.” *

It is well worth the extra cost to ride the parlor car, Silver Vista. Great service, outstanding views, and comfortable seats.



railiner said:


> Too bad they didn’t instead convert them into oil-burners...


They have, two of them this year. I believe at least another 6 are still coal fired and used in regular service. I suspect the oil fired ones will be used mostly during the summer fire season.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 21, 2020)

Palmland said:


> You may want to call the D&S before riding To check on what engines they’re running. Because of fire danger from coal smoke they have recently bought a few diesels. While the view would be just as spectacular, it would lose some of the appeal to us.


I don't think I've ever considered the potential existence of narrow gauge diesel locomotives before today. Having already ridden four coal powered trains on the D&S I think a quirky diesel powered run could be a lot of fun.











railiner said:


> Too bad they didn’t instead convert them into oil-burners...





Palmland said:


> They have, two of them this year.


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## Seaboard92 (Oct 21, 2020)

v v said:


> Much of what was written above strikes a cord with us for our next US journey, to visit many National and State parks as well as natural wonders of America. We have tended recently to travel city to city, town to town, now it's our chance at America the beautiful and this fits in just so well as it includes a train as a bonus.
> 
> Thanks



Also in Colorado is the Royal Gorge Railroad which is another interesting line. I haven't done it but I've heard good things. I know in a normal year they also allow you to buy a ticket in the locomotive which knowing you guys might be quite fun. 

Now a short plug for my tourist railroad but you should come and ride with me in rural Southwest Georgia. We are technically a Georgia State Park as our management is GA DNR Staff. We depart from Georgia Veterans State Park and have a nice little operation that visit's President Carter's hometown and boyhood farm. 

I know you prefer taking public transit when you are in the states so if you wanted to take the Greyhound in if you gave me enough advance notice I could drive out to the nearest Greyhound Station and drive you from there to the on property hotel, and to the train. 

Back to the real topic though. Colorado has a lot of amazing tourists trains the Georgetown Loop is also amazing.


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## ehbowen (Oct 22, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> Yes, it is definitely worth it. Consider taking one of the cars with historical narration. We took the car with the "first newspaperwoman of Durango" in the dress of her time who provided a wonderful commentary of the sites along the way and the history of the sites as well as the railroad. Very memorable and what with living so close to Durango, we'll be sure going again also. Same for the Cumbres and Toltec line, but we didn't have any narration along the way, just the beautiful scenery. While we took this latter line, the train actually picked up some backpackers along the way, so apparently that's another service they provide.
> 
> When we did the Durango-Silverton train, we stayed at the General Palmer Hotel which is a historical hotel right next to the train station. I think General Palmer also was active in the railroad industry back when this line was built. We enjoyed staying there and I recommend it if you decide to not camp. The Strater Hotel, another historical hotel, is also close to the train station and we visited the bar there because my sister loves historical hotels.


I stayed at the Strater Hotel for both of my Durango trips (2003 & 2007) and enjoyed it thoroughly. Classic property brought up to date with modern amenities, and an easy three blocks walk to the train station.


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## Barb Stout (Oct 22, 2020)

Palmland said:


> They have, two of them this year. I believe at least another 6 are still coal fired and used in regular service. I suspect the oil fired ones will be used mostly during the summer fire season.


The "summer" fire season has expanded into the autumn and in some places also into the spring.


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## v v (Oct 24, 2020)

First I have to write we will be shipping our small RV to the US, apart from around 4 or 5 rail journeys that will be the majority of our transport.

This adventure will not start until October 2021, Covid allowing, and should last 12 months except for a mid-way return to Europe for around 2 1/2 months. It's going to take a lot of planning, that's half of my enjoyment in travel. As it combines many different aspects of travel the planning has to start early, it could end up stretching to 25,000 miles long so we have to sort through what is most important to us. Visiting friends is top of the list followed by the wonderful parks of the US. That we may abandon up to half of our projected journeys or visits doesn't matter, we are reasonably good at at responding to changes forced on us at short notice.

That's the rough background to some of the questions raised in the many helpful answers on this thread.



Barb Stout said:


> Yes, it is definitely worth it. _Consider taking one of the cars with historical narration_. We took the car with the "first newspaperwoman of Durango" in the dress of her time who provided a wonderful commentary of the sites along the way and the history of the sites as well as the railroad. Very memorable and what with living so close to Durango, we'll be sure going again also. Same for the Cumbres and Toltec line, but we didn't have any narration along the way, just the beautiful scenery. While we took this latter line, the train actually picked up some backpackers along the way, so apparently that's another service they provide.
> 
> When we did the Durango-Silverton train, we stayed at the General Palmer Hotel which is a historical hotel right next to the train station. I think General Palmer also was active in the railroad industry back when this line was built. We enjoyed staying there and I recommend it if you decide to not camp. The Strater Hotel, another historical hotel, is also close to the train station and we visited the bar there because my sister loves historical hotels.



Historical narration, that's a good idea, and a visit to the hotels you mention.




Palmland said:


> While they have taken delivery of the diesels (bought from the Whitepass and Yukon RR in Skagway, which you may have ridden, the initial plans are to use for maintenance trains and shorter excursions to Cascade Canyon and not on the full route to Silverton. Best check wtih them if you're concerned about it and be aware of this from their website.:
> *"Damage to the train tracks south of Silverton are preventing the trains from going all the way to Silverton this season. The D&SNG Railroad expects to offer full service to Silverton on May 2, when the 2021 Spring/Summer season begins. To be notified when the 2021 schedule and fares are published, please call 866.675.6900 to be put on our “contact list.” *
> 
> It is well worth the extra cost to ride the parlor car, Silver Vista. Great service, outstanding views, and comfortable seats.



We don't expect to arrive in Colorado until June 2022, current planning is to establish an outline of a route and what to visit while noting anything along the way that I can go back to for detail research. I expect the rail damage repairs will be completed that far ahead, but thank you for pointing that out.

Will give parlour car some thoughts too, thanks.

As I knew we would be passing close to or through Durango and had heard of the railway, it logic to ask on this forum would it be worth us stopping for a day or so. We don't usually plan this far ahead, but in Covid times many things are different.




Seaboard92 said:


> Now a short plug for my tourist railroad but you should come and ride with me in rural Southwest Georgia. We are technically a Georgia State Park as our management is GA DNR Staff. We depart from Georgia Veterans State Park and have a nice little operation that visit's President Carter's hometown and boyhood farm.



We would both really enjoy meeting up with you and riding that line, Georgia looks like November/December 2021, does your line run that late in the year?





Seaboard92 said:


> I know you prefer taking public transit when you are in the states so if you wanted to take the Greyhound in if you gave me enough advance notice I could drive out to the nearest Greyhound Station and drive you from there to the on property hotel, and to the train.



Part of the reason for travelling in an RV is the ability to self isolate if we need to even though we expect to be vaccinated by summer next year at the latest, and although we are big fans of Greyhound we still think that is too early to take a busy bus although we are happy with what we have seen of Amtrak's Covid measures.

I also meant to write that is a very kind offer but not required, just secure parking.


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## PVD (Oct 24, 2020)

Assuming the RV is left hand drive (France?), not UK right hand, it should be great, especially if it has toilet and shower. Make sure you check out power requirements, as shore power provided at RV camps will probably be wired with a different plug/voltage connection some type of adapter might be required. There are many excellent websites for advance planning that type of travel, they certainly were popular this year!


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## v v (Oct 24, 2020)

PVD said:


> Assuming the RV is left hand drive (France?), not UK right hand, it should be great, especially if it has toilet and shower. Make sure you check out power requirements, as shore power provided at RV camps will probably be wired with a different plug/voltage connection some type of adapter might be required. There are many excellent websites for advance planning that type of travel, they certainly were popular this year!



Yes a step up transformer is required, an adaptor for the different plug into the transformer and different gas bottles with appropriate connectors. Yes LHD, originally built for the German market so all set there.

You're right, we have to get into other forums too but this is our 'home' forum where we feel most comfortable and of course love Amtrak train travel, so use it whenever we can.

It's not a tiny RV but small compared to US ones, 24' long with full bathroom facilities, but no slide-outs, so small.

Camping in general has exploded in Europe too since Covid, guess that many are trying to find outdoor space for vacations to escape from restrictions.


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## Willbridge (Oct 24, 2020)

Barb Stout said:


> When we did the Durango-Silverton train, we stayed at the General Palmer Hotel which is a historical hotel right next to the train station. I think General Palmer also was active in the railroad industry back when this line was built. We enjoyed staying there and I recommend it if you decide to not camp. The Strater Hotel, another historical hotel, is also close to the train station and we visited the bar there because my sister loves historical hotels.


General Palmer was the driving force in developing the Rio Grande rail system. He had quite a resumé. His business car was the consist of the memorial special train that I described above. The car is sometimes available for charters.

William Jackson Palmer - Wikipedia


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## Seaboard92 (Oct 24, 2020)

v v said:


> We would both really enjoy meeting up with you and riding that line, Georgia looks like November/December 2021, does your line run that late in the year?
> 
> Part of the reason for travelling in an RV is the ability to self isolate if we need to even though we expect to be vaccinated by summer next year at the latest, and although we are big fans of Greyhound we still think that is too early to take a busy bus although we are happy with what we have seen of Amtrak's Covid measures.
> 
> I also meant to write that is a very kind offer but not required, just secure parking.



We have a camp ground on our campus I believe. I have not been to it but I have heard of it. A lot of our crew actually lives in RVs in said campground actually. And yes we are running in November/December. I know you admire President Carter so if I was to make a suggestion be in the area the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Every year we go to his Tree Lighting where he lights up the town of Plains. We depart I believe at three pm that Saturday. 

As far as other days this year we are running our normal train 11/7, 11/20, 11/21, 12/4, 12/5, 12/12. We have a few special event days I didn't list for this year. But that is about our average every November. If you want the trip on the Dearing which is our nicest car available you will have to book that sometime in September of 2021 as it sells out fast. I'll try my best to keep you updated on when tickets go on sale so you have advance notice. 

Check your Personal Messages as well for some other non published trips that might interest you.


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## Palmland (Oct 25, 2020)

I guess this is nature’s way of cleaning house. We visit Estes almost every year to see family and were so sad to see over the past few years the devastation to RMNP, especially the western slope, and surrounding area caused by the pine beetle blight. Unfortunately the dead and downed trees make great fuel for the fire. Thankfully 10 years from now It’ll be hard to tell there was a fire. Small consolation for those visiting or who have lost a home.


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## v v (Oct 25, 2020)

Seaboard92 said:


> We have a camp ground on our campus I believe. I have not been to it but I have heard of it. A lot of our crew actually lives in RVs in said campground actually. And yes we are running in November/December. I know you admire President Carter so if I was to make a suggestion be in the area the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Every year we go to his Tree Lighting where he lights up the town of Plains. We depart I believe at three pm that Saturday.
> 
> As far as other days this year we are running our normal train 11/7, 11/20, 11/21, 12/4, 12/5, 12/12. We have a few special event days I didn't list for this year. But that is about our average every November. If you want the trip on the Dearing which is our nicest car available you will have to book that sometime in September of 2021 as it sells out fast. I'll try my best to keep you updated on when tickets go on sale so you have advance notice.
> 
> Check your Personal Messages as well for some other non published trips that might interest you.



Have just checked out the first part of the route and it's possible to reroute and just about make the train following Thanksgiving 2021, now that would be something to look forward to for all sorts of reasons, thank you very much for suggesting such a splendid day.

Will reply to your pm this evening.


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## Rover (Aug 4, 2022)

4K Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad (feat steam double header) July 2022 

Jul 27, 2022 Video shot July 18th and 19th 2022. The shots in and around Cascade were done by hiking in on the Purgatory Flats Trail.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Aug 6, 2022)

Great video. Brings back memories of our trip there last September. I hardly sat in my seat that trip, spent most of my time on the outside platform.


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## Cal (Aug 11, 2022)

For those doing round trip, do they wye the whole train so you get to see the scenery on both sides?


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