# Empire Builder/Security Issues



## idarose (Nov 2, 2002)

I have a comment on the security of the Empire Builder round trip route from Seattle to Chicago. I rode that route October 3; to Chicago, and returned October 19th.

I did not see any heightened security. I boarded in Sandpoint, Idaho. Once on the train not once was I asked to show ID. How did they know if I was the same person on the ticket?

On the return trip; having to go through Chicago; I was asked to sign my ticket; which I purchased online. That was the only security I saw. No ID check there either.

Now; as to baggage concerns. How do they know if someone is carrying luggage with guns; knives; box cutters; or hazardous materials with them?

I was rather concerned about this.

They will throw you off the train for smoking outside of the designated smoking areas; but will not check for the safety of the passengers.

Confused.

Thanks,

Comments please.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2002)

I rode the Builder last week and didn't feel threatened although the Border Patrol did pull a man off the train in Havre Montana and arrested him. I guess nothing will be stepped up with security until there is a disaster involving a train. Hope it never happens. I felt safe on the train though.


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## jccollins (Nov 8, 2002)

It is very difficult to increase security with our serious funding problem. In Martinez, CA, we have been checking ID's when tickets are purchased and the station hosts have been keeping a close watch for any suspicious activities at the station. The local police department has also helped with more frequent patrol visits at the station. While it is difficult to increase security with no additional funding like the airlines have received, you can be sure that we are doing the very best we can.

JC Collins

Amtrak Martinez


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## AlanB (Nov 8, 2002)

Idarose,

I'm sorry that it took me a while to reply to your concerns.

First of all let me say that they are valid concerns, there is no question that in our post 9/11 world we must be more careful and vigilant. That said let me first tell you a few of the things that Amtrak has done.

Here in the northeast one can no longer buy a ticket on board the train. It must be pre-purchased. Granted they cannot do this on long distance trains, such as the one you took, as there are many stations with no ticket agents. However it is a start. Also anyone buying a ticket in person, without a prior reservation, must show id. If you are buying said ticket on the same day of travel, and/or are buying only a one-way ticket, you will be subject to even more scrutiny.

As for people who have made prior reservations, they will receive less visible scrutiny, as their names were already checked with security and police databases through the computer system when the reservation was made. Amtrak has also increased the number of plain clothed police officers on its trains. There are also other measures that have been taken, which have not been made public simply because making them public would give a terrorist the info he/she needs to defeat the measure.

That said, yes it is still possible to have a problem or a security breach. In fact less than three months ago a man traveled from Chicago to NY on the Lake Shore Limited carrying a gun. He later fired that gun, during a protest at the United Nations here in NY. Rest assured that had this man shown the gun even once while on board the train, just like the smoker incident that you cited, the conductor would have stopped the train and had him arrested.

Now yes a metal detector in Chicago might have caught that gun, but he could just as easily boarded the train at a small station where it would never be practical or even possible to install a metal detector. Additionally it would be very hard to use metal detectors in a large station such as NY or Chicago. For one reason, once you’ve checked and scanned a passenger you now need to keep him or her separated from the commuter passengers who are also using the same station.

In NY for example this would be next to impossible. You also couldn’t possibly scan each and every passenger entering the terminal regardless of what type of train they were riding. NY’s Penn station handles 300,000 passengers each and every day. I doubt that you could properly scan that many people in one day, to say nothing of the chaos that would ensue during rush hour when probably close to a third of those 300,000 people show up wanting to go home on their trains. Even if you could keep Amtrak passengers separated from commuter passengers something that I doubt is possible, you would still have a very large job as close to 30,000 passengers board Amtrak trains here in NY each day.

It should also be mentioned that it’s simply not possible nor is it practical to hijack a train. First of all one cannot gain access to the engine while the train is in motion. Secondly even if you did gain access to the engine at a station you are still stuck on the train tracks. You can only go where the tracks go, so you can’t crash the train into a building. On top of that, unlike the air traffic controllers who looked on helplessly as the planes crashed into the buildings, the controllers for the trains can still direct a hijacked train where they want it to go and not where the hijacker might want it to go. Also with the newer control systems being installed in trains, a controller could stop a train over the objections of a hijacker. The hijacker would be helpless to prevent the train from stopping.

Because of the nature of train travel, it will never be possible to fully secure the trains, unless we as Americans are willing to give up our right to travel anywhere at any time we like. If we do give up that right, then the terrorists have won. They’ve forced us to change our way of life, something that they are jealous of.

It should also be noted that there are a few measures that Amtrak has tried to implement, only to have civil liberties groups oppose them. In fact part of the random ID checking program while on board a train, was just pulled from implementation because of objections by civil liberty groups. This also comes back to what I mentioned just above, which is how many of your rights and freedoms that we as Americans have are you willing to give up in the name of security?

Now let me come back to a point that JC Collins raised, funding. I’m quite certain that Amtrak would like to do more than it has, but that requires money. Money that Amtrak doesn’t have and Congress isn’t willing to give to Amtrak. In fact within a month of 9/11 a contingent of Democratic Senators asked Amtrak to submit a request for additional funding for security and safety. Amtrak complied, and they asked for 3.2 Billion. Of that amount, I think about 1/3 was earmarked for repairing the damaged cars sitting in Beach Grove, Amtrak’s heavy maintenance facility. Repairing cars would have helped Amtrak to better respond and take up the slack, should another airline shutdown ever occur.

Another third was to go towards safety/security issues with regard to the tunnels here in the east, both in NY and Baltimore. The rest was to go to pay for the already heightened post 9/11 securities and to further increase security above and beyond.

Now while Congress handed billions out to the airlines post 9/11, the Republican controlled house cut Amtrak’s 3.2 Billion proposal down to just a little over 200 Million.  That's a little more than *6%* of what Amtrak had requested. Of that 100 M was earmarked for the tunnels and the rest was for security. It didn't even pay for the police overtime costs that Amtrak incurred during the first month after 9/11. Then just to make matters worse White House OMB director Mitch Daniels, an avid anti-Amtrak Republican, withheld that measly 200M that Congress approved for Amtrak for over six months before he finally released the money. :angry:

So just to sum up and compare, the federal government gave away Billions to the airlines and they assumed control of all airport security in the wake of 9/11, yet Amtrak got only 200M to help it beef up security. Yet Amtrak has many more stations to guard, than there are airports. Amtrak also has miles of track, tunnels, and bridges to be guarded. 15 Billion for the airlines, and that doesn't include federalizing security, vs. 200 Million for Amtrak. It just doesn’t seem fair to me. 

If we want tighter security for Amtrak, then we as American’s must demand that Congress properly fund Amtrak so it can provide better security. If Congress doesn’t trust Amtrak with the money, then it must assume control of the security force just like it did for the airlines. But we as citizens cannot demand something of Amtrak, which it cannot possibly provide with the miserly amounts of monies that we allow our politicians to allocate to Amtrak. Write your Congressman and Senators and tell them how you feel, they need to know.

Finally just as a reminder, Amtrak unlike the airlines, is still government owned just like the Post Office. It’s not really a privately held corporation like Delta; you can’t buy stock in Amtrak. So one has to wonder why the Federal Government does not assume the responsibility for properly funding Amtrak or at least it’s security. They did this for the airlines, which the government does not own. So why are they not fixing Amtrak which they do own? :angry:


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## idarose (Nov 11, 2002)

Alan,

Thanks so much for responding to my concerns. I totally agree that the government should allow the alloted monies to Amtrak; they are a legitimate mode of travel just as the airlines. I will write my congressman regarding these issues.

I love riding the rails; I just did not know all the legistics of the matters at hand. Thanks for clearing this up for me.

I would hate to see Amtrak come to a close; the rails were/are/and always be a part of our heritage in the USA. I will continue riding as long as I have the opportunity.

Thanks again.


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