# Stopovers permitted?



## Meme (Apr 16, 2008)

On our way back from a cross-country trip, can we make an unscheduled stopover, for example, could we get off our train in Washington, D.C., spend a night or two, and then board the evening southbound Amtrak for the remainder of our trip home? Would we simply have to phone to change our reserved seats? Any extra fare for this, or is it even possible to do? I'm kind of assuming it's not ... but I'd sure like to be told I'm wrong!


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## WICT106 (Apr 16, 2008)

Quick and brief answer: No.


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## AlanB (Apr 16, 2008)

It can be done, but you will definately pay more to do so. Amtrak deeply discounts the tickets on the NEC when you connect to/from the Capitol Limited. If you overnight in DC, you will loose that discount. That could amount to $30 or more per ticket, depending on the current price level of the new train you wish to take.

Last summer when I was connecting in a Business class seat, I paid $66 bucks to ride NY to DC. The normal low bucket fare for a Regional train is $69, and the surcharge for Business Class is another $35. So I saved close to $40 by booking the through trip. And that's assuming that I could have gotten the low bucket price. If I had hit the high bucket price, my cost would have been closer to $150 for that ticket.


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## jackal (Apr 16, 2008)

How does Amtrak calculate the fare for stopovers?

Do they simply take A-B plus B-C, or do they calculate it as A-C?

If the latter, is there a rule like the airlines have where anything under 4 hours is considered a connection, while anything over 4 hours is a stopover?

Are there any fares filed that allow stopovers (like some airlines do)?

Where can you read Amtrak's fare rules? I haven't seen a link on the site to an actual breakdown of the fare rules (like you can find for airfares on some websites).


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## the_traveler (Apr 16, 2008)

jackal said:


> How does Amtrak calculate the fare for stopovers?
> Do they simply take A-B plus B-C, or do they calculate it as A-C?
> 
> If the latter, is there a rule like the airlines have where anything under 4 hours is considered a connection, while anything over 4 hours is a stopover?


I believe it is A-B plus B-C. Unless it's the next train out. Or (I think) if you pay a full (non-discounted) fare.

And there is not the "4 hour rule" on Amtrak. They will suggest 1 or more connections to be guaranteed, anything else is a stopover (unless you choose the guaranteed connection and somehow miss it).

An example is ATL-KIN. The suggested (and guaranteed connection) is Ar NYP @ 2:02 PM and Dp NYP @ 3:30 PM. However, if you chose to depart NYP (depending on the day of the week) at 5:00, 5:40, 7:00, 7:30, 8:00 or 3:15 AM - these would be considered a stopover.


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## VentureForth (Apr 17, 2008)

Easiest way to get stopovers is to have a North American Rail Pass. Of course, that is $1000, good for 30 days and you have to visit Canada, but you can stopover...


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## PRR 60 (Apr 17, 2008)

Amtrak fares, including top buckets, do not permit stop-overs. Amtrak's definition of a connection is taking the next available train that meets the minimum permitted connection time (connections to Acela are not considered). There may be some exceptions to that (Amtrak loves inconsistency), but in general that is how it works. The only way to book a stop-over on Amtrak is to stack one-way fares for the individual segments.

The old airline rule to define a connection used to be 18 hours. I haven't tried to book a long-duration connection in a while, so it may have changed.


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## jackal (Apr 17, 2008)

PRR 60 said:


> Amtrak fares, including top buckets, do not permit stop-overs. Amtrak's definition of a connection is taking the next available train that meets the minimum permitted connection time (connections to Acela are not considered). There may be some exceptions to that (Amtrak loves inconsistency), but in general that is how it works. The only way to book a stop-over on Amtrak is to stack one-way fares for the individual segments.
> The old airline rule to define a connection used to be 18 hours. I haven't tried to book a long-duration connection in a while, so it may have changed.


In my experience with booking DL (the only airline I've actually attempted to do a mileage run on), stopovers are (what I would term) voluntary connections four or more hours. In other words, if it's six hours until the next available flight, that would be a connection, not a stopover. But if the next available flight were two hours, but you opted to stay in that city for six hours, that would be a stopover. Depending on whether the fare rules allowed a stopover or not, that could affect your fare.

From what I understand, international routings have a more generous 24-hour connection/stopover cutoff, but they have an additional limitation, called "maximum permitted mileage." In other words, a fare from MIA-SYD might be valid on a routing of MIA-SEA-SYD, if that fell under the MPM, but a routing of MIA-LHR-SYD might not, because it's significantly out of the way and above the MPM.

But this isn't FlyerTalk's Mileage Run Discussion forum, so I'll shut up now!  (Besides, I could be very wrong.)

I was really asking the wrong question before. Let me try to use a real-life example to illustrate what I'm trying to figure out:

Suppose I'd like to go from CHI to SAN. I have three options to book:

1. Book CHI-SAN and let Amtrak pick my connection from the SWC to the Surfliner. Total price for Oct. 17: $172

2. Book the multi-city function CHI-LAX and then LAX-SAN, but choose another Surfliner train on the 19th (the evening one, allowing me to stay in LAX for the day). Total price: $172

3. Book a ticket CHI-LAX for $143 and a separate ticket LAX-SAN for $29. Total price: $172

Based on that, amtrak appears to construct ticket prices for connections based on the sum of the individual fares. In other words, SDL-SAN is $310. I'll bet if I were to price SDL-WAS, WAS-CHI, CHI-LAX, and LAX-SAN and add up those fares, the total would be $310. Same goes for the multi-city option (to get them all on one reservation and force a certain routing), if I picked the same dates as the direct booking picks.

And so based on that logic, this means that I _should_ be able to do a two-day stopover in all three of the connecting cities for the same price as the straight-through booking, assuming I pick the same trains (e.g. the CL and not the Cardinal between WAS and CHI if the direct booking only offers the CL) and the same fare buckets are available on all of the trains.

I could, of course, be wrong on this. Unfortunately, I've had too much caffeine and too little sleep and can't focus enough to actually test this out with multiple possibilities, trying to figure it out. I may have a better chance tomorrow.

Now, I did test one thing out, and where things definitely change is if you make a stopover in a _non-_connecting city--e.g., you get off in the middle of a route. If I book CHI-ABQ and ABQ-LAX, the price goes up a good bit from a direct CHI-LAX booking.

Am I making sense here? :blink:


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## AlanB (Apr 17, 2008)

Your making sense, but you would be wrong. Amtrak, as it typical, never does things with 100% consistancy. The trains that you tested, that being CHI - SAN, do work as you've stated I'm pretty sure. But when you turn to your example from SDL to SAN, that one will fall down since Amtrak does discount for through routing in Chicago. For example, I did a simpler routing NYP - LAX, and the through trip is $231. Book it as two seperate trips, even without actually staying over in Chicago, and the price jumps to $260.

Not a huge difference, but still a difference. And as I pointed out earlier, involve a regional train on the NEC and you'll really see some differences between booking a through trip vs a segmented trip.


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## p&sr (Apr 17, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> Easiest way to get stopovers is to have a North American Rail Pass. Of course, that is $1000, good for 30 days and you have to visit Canada, but you can stopover...


It's not quite as bad as that. You can get a 10% discount for AAA or other reasons.

And if you avoid the Summer Peak (May 23, 2008 - October 15, 2008) the cost is only $709.

Again, a 10% discount is possible... $638.10

A round-trip across the country may well cost less than this. But if you are doing much more than that, and don't mind a trip to Canada along the way, then it can be a good deal. Just be sure to figure your fare without the pass to see whether it is really worthwhile.


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## james felix (Apr 17, 2008)

this is awkward as i had to use my real name to get in, but: i broke a bean town to denver trip @ DC and didn't pay extra. how i did it was to ask twice. second time a winner. so please don't tell any one who i am.


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## yoohoo (Apr 18, 2008)

VentureForth said:


> Easiest way to get stopovers is to have a North American Rail Pass. Of course, that is $1000, good for 30 days and you have to visit Canada, but you can stopover...


What about the conditions where it states:

_The pass may be used for a maximum of four one-way trips on any given leg._ ??


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## p&sr (Apr 18, 2008)

yoohoo said:


> What about the conditions where it states:_The pass may be used for a maximum of four one-way trips on any given leg._ ??


This prevents the Pass from being used as a Commuter's Ticket, eg daily round trips from Washington to New York City for the entire month. Just because that's not the purpose of the Pass. Two round trips should be plenty. Even then, they do use discretion if an additional run there makes sense as part of a larger itinerary.

Stopovers along any given leg are not a problem.


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