# Another try with sleeper buses



## Willbridge

Washington, DC to Nashville:








Napaway starts bus service from DC to Nashville, with beds - WTOP News


Startup luxury coach bus service Napaway Coach will launch its first route next month, from D.C. to Nashville. Its bus has beds.




wtop.com













Napaway Sleeper Coach Service Aims for Comfort - BUSRide


A premium sleeper coach service is looking to compete with airlines and improve travel in the US by merging the convenience of coach travel with the comfort of a business class suite. Napaway founder and CEO Dan Aronov explained that the company’s goal is to provide genuine comfort, privacy...




busride.com





This is unusual as a start-up route. The small company has spent a good deal of effort working with a design firm to develop an 18-berth Prevost (seats 36 in daytime mode). And they have an elegant website:









Napaway | Premium Sleeper Coach Service


Napaway Premium Sleeper Coach Service. The overnight sleeper bus, redefined.




napaway.com


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## Bob Dylan

Willbridge said:


> Washington, DC to Nashville:
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> Napaway starts bus service from DC to Nashville, with beds - WTOP News
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> Startup luxury coach bus service Napaway Coach will launch its first route next month, from D.C. to Nashville. Its bus has beds.
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> wtop.com
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> Napaway Sleeper Coach Service Aims for Comfort - BUSRide
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> A premium sleeper coach service is looking to compete with airlines and improve travel in the US by merging the convenience of coach travel with the comfort of a business class suite. Napaway founder and CEO Dan Aronov explained that the company’s goal is to provide genuine comfort, privacy...
> 
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> busride.com
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is unusual as a start-up route. The small company has spent a good deal of effort working with a design firm to develop an 18-berth Prevost (seats 36 in daytime mode). And they have an elegant website:
> 
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> Napaway | Premium Sleeper Coach Service
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> Napaway Premium Sleeper Coach Service. The overnight sleeper bus, redefined.
> 
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> napaway.com


What's the Over and Under on this Start-Up Making it a go??


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## Brian Battuello

40 years ago I lived in San Francisco, and an occasional sight was busses filled with European tourists peeking out of their slumbercoach tubes as they trundled down streets late at night. Seemed like a fine way to see the US on the cheap.

Look up "The Big Bus" movie. Do not waste your time watching it.


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## Willbridge

Brian Battuello said:


> 40 years ago I lived in San Francisco, and an occasional sight was busses filled with European tourists peeking out of their slumbercoach tubes as they trundled down streets late at night. Seemed like a fine way to see the US on the cheap.
> 
> Look up "The Big Bus" movie. Do not waste your time watching it.


San Francisco was a terminal for Pickwick Stages, which operated Sleepercoaches before WWII. Of course, their buses called at Pickwick Hotels. Imagine sleeping on US99 to Portland, including winter travel over the Siskiyous. On the other hand, for people who hated the SP, it was an alternative.


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## George Harris

Pickwick stages: Yes, I recalled seeing somewhere that there had been sleeper buses at some time in the past, but did not remember the when or where. Are there sleeper buses anywhere in the world today? Unless there was a huge cost advantage, I cannot see taking a pre-interstate highway sleeper bus. 

Why those particular end points? Per my phone, that is 664 miles and 9h33m drive time. However, that drive time would mean an average speed of 69.5 mph, which is ridiculous. Something on the order of 12 hours seems a lot more likely, and even that means minimal stopping and keeping at the speed limit as much as practical. This is however significantly faster than any rail time that ever was or is possible now. Something more on the order of 20 to 24 hours was probably on the normal range. Anything much faster than this would require major line relocations due to the Appalachians.

I just have problems seeing a market for a berth on a bus. You are looking at the need to travel but can't or won't drive and don't want to or can't fly. For the can't crowd, there are those that have trouble dealing with the change in air pressure you have when flying. These are understandable, but it seems like the can't fly list is growing because we are getting more and more people coming unglued on flights and getting themselves kicked off and put on don't fly lists. For this last contingent, if they can't stay rational for an hour or two on a plane, how are they going to make 12 hours plus on a bus? I don't want to find out the answer to that one.


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## caravanman

There was news recently of a "luxury" seated coach running service between Washington and New York. Anyone know how popular that is proving, it might give an indication of folks willingness to pay for a deluxe sleeper bus service, over an economy class model?


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## Everydaymatters

The Green Tortoise was a sleeper-bus a while back. They even had hostels here and there.


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## joelkfla

A start-up called Cabin launched a sleeper bus between SF & LA with great fanfare in 2017. After struggling for a while, they relaunched with a revised vehicle design in 2019. I can't find anything on the internet after that.

Now Yelp reports them closed, their Facebook page has no activity since 2019, and their website doesn't exist.


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## railiner

Willbridge said:


> Washington, DC to Nashville:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Napaway starts bus service from DC to Nashville, with beds - WTOP News
> 
> 
> Startup luxury coach bus service Napaway Coach will launch its first route next month, from D.C. to Nashville. Its bus has beds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wtop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Napaway Sleeper Coach Service Aims for Comfort - BUSRide
> 
> 
> A premium sleeper coach service is looking to compete with airlines and improve travel in the US by merging the convenience of coach travel with the comfort of a business class suite. Napaway founder and CEO Dan Aronov explained that the company’s goal is to provide genuine comfort, privacy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> busride.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is unusual as a start-up route. The small company has spent a good deal of effort working with a design firm to develop an 18-berth Prevost (seats 36 in daytime mode). And they have an elegant website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Napaway | Premium Sleeper Coach Service
> 
> 
> Napaway Premium Sleeper Coach Service. The overnight sleeper bus, redefined.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> napaway.com


Wow... this is truly an innovative concept. A lot different than the "Cabin" business model, which was designed purely for shorter strictly overnight trips with very little provision for day travel. The flexibility of running 18 night passenger's or 36 day passenger's offers a lot more utility, and can make a difference in the ability of this start-up to make it, as is the lack of the need for an on board attendant, which some current luxury buslines provide. The statement that he would like to grown into a nationwide service is very ambitious, but I hope the company succeeds. 
Thanks for posting this.


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## railiner

Brian Battuello said:


> 40 years ago I lived in San Francisco, and an occasional sight was busses filled with European tourists peeking out of their slumbercoach tubes as they trundled down streets late at night. Seemed like a fine way to see the US on the cheap.
> 
> Look up "The Big Bus" movie. Do not waste your time watching it.


Maybe this was what you saw? They have been around the US several times through the years, and their business model is different...bringing over buses with foreign tourists on extensive "camping" tours...









Rotel - The German Bus Hotel


Capsule hotels are in vogue right now. German tour company, Rotel was always ahead of the game by providing capsule hotels on wheels since 1945. No matter how much you might enjoy staying in a five star hotel, you will always be stationary, trapped in one district. So, to feed your sense of...




www.uniqhotels.com













Rotel Tours’ Hotel Bus Feature Beds, Private Rooms


Calling this thing a "hotel on wheels" is being generous. At the current state of public buses, though, having a semi-private booth with a cramped bed does sound mighty luxurious. And that's exactly what Rotel Tours' "rolling hotel" buses bring to commuters. A 3 x 3 x 6 feet room with a curtain...




www.coolthings.com


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## Metra Electric Rider

Are there sleeper coaches on any of the bus routes in Mexico (or to Mexico, from various points in the continental US)?

Looking at the schedule, it almost seems like a commuter service for people with government or affiliated jobs in DC.


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## City of Miami

The toilet/sink "amenity" would still be the deal breaker for me.


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## Willbridge

Metra Electric Rider said:


> ...
> 
> Looking at the schedule, it almost seems like a commuter service for people with government or affiliated jobs in DC.


Yes, and I think it would have a better chance if there was a strong marketing link with some Nashville venues and hotels.


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## Dakota 400

An interesting, somewhat of an upgrade concept from the Trailways Golden Eagle experience that I had many years ago. But, I still prefer taking the train.


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## Metra Electric Rider

Dakota 400 said:


> An interesting, somewhat of an upgrade concept from the Trailways Golden Eagle experience that I had many years ago. But, I still prefer taking the train.


I think most people would, but there isn't much choice here. 

One of my friends used to do long bus tours (obviously not sleeping on the bus) and really enjoyed them a lot - don't know if it was the tours themselves or the people or what (or even the buses themselves, of course I'm going waaaay off topic here).


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## AmtrakMaineiac

caravanman said:


> There was news recently of a "luxury" seated coach running service between Washington and New York. Anyone know how popular that is proving, it might give an indication of folks willingness to pay for a deluxe sleeper bus service, over an economy class model?


Jeb Brooks seemed to like it

Luxury Bus Washington to New York


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## railiner

Dakota 400 said:


> An interesting, somewhat of an upgrade concept from the Trailways Golden Eagle experience that I had many years ago. But, I still prefer taking the train.


I would equate these operation's to be more akin to the Trailways "Five Star Luxury Service" which used the Golden Eagle coaches in its final years. Most of the Five Star routes were around 200 to 400 mile day trips, but did also include some transcontinental trips...






Vonlane


Vonlane is a first-of-its-kind luxury motor coach service for Texas travelers. Founded to eliminate the hassles and lost productivity associated with short-haul commercial flights or self driving, Vonlane provides direct transport between major cities in Texas. With less than two dozen seats...




vonlane.com





and as mentioned above,









We call it The Jet. | The Jet


An all-new, first-class travel experience that combines the luxury of a private jet with the affordability and convenience of a motor coach.




thejet.coach





There are several other's most of which do not have an attendant or food and beverage service, other than a self-serve snack bar and k cup machine..


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## NYP2NFL01

I remember traveling on Trailways Golden Eagle buses as a child with my parents back in the 1960s!


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## railiner

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I remember traveling on Trailways Golden Eagle buses as a child with my parents back in the 1960s!


The service was especially useful for sending unaccompanied minor's.


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## railiner

railiner said:


> The service was especially useful for sending unaccompanied minor's.


There is a preserved Golden Eagle on display at the Museum of Bus Transportation (part of AACA) in Hershey, PA...





MOBT Galleries - AACA Museum


2021 Spring Fling




www.aacamuseum.org


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## John Webb

Willbridge said:


> San Francisco was a terminal for Pickwick Stages, which operated Sleepercoaches before WWII. Of course, their buses called at Pickwick Hotels. Imagine sleeping on US99 to Portland, including winter travel over the Siskiyous. On the other hand, for people who hated the SP, it was an alternative.


Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.

That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.

Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?


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## John Santos

John Webb said:


> Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.
> 
> That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?


Snopes has nothing I could find. Certainly if such a thing had ever happened, it would be very well known.


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## NYP2NFL01

Plus, would not the bus operator have died from the CO2 exposure?


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## jis

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Plus, would not the bus operator have died from the CO2 exposure?


You meant to say CO exposure I suppose, as in Carbon Monoxide?


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## Dakota 400

NYP2NFL01 said:


> I remember traveling on Trailways Golden Eagle buses as a child with my parents back in the 1960s!



Do you have any memory of what the meal service was like? My trip was from Columbus, Ohio to New York City. I think we were served dinner and breakfast and the same on the return trip to Columbus.


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## MARC Rider

jis said:


> You meant to say CO exposure I suppose, as in Carbon Monoxide?


Actually, CO2 is also a component of diesel exhaust and it can be toxic in a high enough concentration (especially if there isn't much oxygen.) I once used a pulse oximeter when wearing a mask, and while my blood oxygen level was perfectly fine, I felt like I was suffocating. I asked my doctor about it, and he said that was probably from the enriched CO2 levels of my exhalations that were being caught behind the mask and being rebreathed by me. Nothing like self-experimentation. 

But, yeh, normally when one thinks of being harmed by gases from fuel combustion, the real culprit is probably CO, Not CO2.


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## Willbridge

John Webb said:


> Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.
> 
> That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?


I never heard of that. The route seems plausible for a test, so perhaps there was a problem identified and the story grew from some real event.


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## NYP2NFL01

jis said:


> You meant to say CO exposure I suppose, as in Carbon Monoxide?


Yep! I got carbon dioxide (CO2) confused with carbon monoxide (CO). Plus I’d watched an Apollo 13 documentary on the build-up of CO2 in the Lunar Module and the DIY fix to correct the problem!


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## Bob Dylan

John Webb said:


> Many years ago I heard that, about the same time as Pickwick Stages overnight service, Greyhound tried to start up an overnight SF to LA sleeper bus. According the story, on it's first run into LA it was discovered that all the passengers upon arrival in LA, had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Greyhound neglected to factor that into it's bus design.
> 
> That ended Greyhound's attempt at sleeper bus service.
> 
> Has anyone else heard this? Any truth to it?


Sounds like one of those Urban Legends that typically prove to be untrue.


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## NYP2NFL01

Wow! This was like 1964. I was four years old at the time. But, I seem to remember Turkey sandwiches served by female attendants with really nice uniforms. I seem to remember the female attendants more than the food! 


Dakota 400 said:


> Do you have any memory of what the meal service was like? My trip was from Columbus, Ohio to New York City. I think we were served dinner and breakfast and the same on the return trip to Columbus.


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## Dakota 400

NYP2NFL01 said:


> Wow! This was like 1964. I was four years old at the time. But, I seem to remember Turkey sandwiches served by female attendants with really nice uniforms. I seem to remember the female attendants more than the food!



Thanks for replying. When I think back to when I was that age, I don't recall much either.


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## jiml

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Jeb Brooks seemed to like it
> 
> Luxury Bus Washington to New York


While catching up with this thread I was going to post that very link.


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## jiml

Bob Dylan said:


> Sounds like one of those Urban Legends that typically prove to be untrue.


Indeed. If that many people had died in one occurrence it would be a much better-known story.


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## Jack Davis

railiner said:


> The service was especially useful for sending unaccompanied minor's.


My dad & I rode the Golden Eagle from L.A. to Seattle to go to the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. Lunch & 'dinner' were served onboard by an attendant. NO sleeper, just recliners. I went with my dad when he stopped at Union Station, Greyhound and Trailways looking for any 'specials' going to the fair and Trailways is the only carrier that offered anything 'special.' Reserved seats, meals on board, hotel stay assistance while there, and some other perks I don't recall. (Breakfast was in a real restaurant somewhere on the way) It left L.A. at 9 a.m. and arrived in Seattle the next day at around 3:50 p.m.


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## railiner

Jack Davis said:


> My dad & I rode the Golden Eagle from L.A. to Seattle to go to the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. Lunch & 'dinner' were served onboard by an attendant. NO sleeper, just recliners. I went with my dad when he stopped at Union Station, Greyhound and Trailways looking for any 'specials' going to the fair and Trailways is the only carrier that offered anything 'special.' Reserved seats, meals on board, hotel stay assistance while there, and some other perks I don't recall. (Breakfast was in a real restaurant somewhere on the way) It left L.A. at 9 a.m. and arrived in Seattle the next day at around 3:50 p.m.



That’s how they did it. On the transcontinental Five Star trip, the hostess served sandwiches, hot and cold beverages, fruits and cookies, as well as hot soups. At breakfast time, she would distribute vouchers to pay for hot breakfast inside the terminal restaurants.

The Golden Eagles featured extra legroom, but not 2&1 seating like some of the more luxurious examples shown above. The earlier type ‘01’ Golden Eagles, did offer a 9 passenger “observation lounge” in the far rear, separated from the revenue seats by the lav on one side, and the galley on the other.


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## Willbridge

On the West Coast line at various times there were three LAX<>SEA Golden Eagles and a SFO<>PDX "daylight" run that after a spell of Brill highway coaches for a while was a Golden Eagle service. Later it was a Silver Eagle. By 1974 they had 1 Los Angeles - Seattle Golden Eagle, 2 Los Angeles - Seattle Silver Eagles and the 1 San Francisco - Portland Silver Eagle.

Just looking at northbound, in the Aug 74 _Official Bus Guide, _GL had 1 Los Angeles to Seattle run, 1 Los Angeles to Van BC run, 1 San Diego to Van BC run, 1 San Diego to Portland run, 1 Long Beach to Seattle run, and 1 Los Angeles to Portland run. They also had 2 SF to Van BC runs, 2 SF to Seattle runs, 1 SF to Spokane run, and 1 SF to Portland run.

Getting back to the question of sleeper buses and looking at the Trailways schedules, the inflexibility of the sleeper buses to provide daytime travel with higher passenger capacity must have been a factor. The service attendant provided more value for daytime travel than low-density passenger counts would have.

The Napaway bus has flexibility but their model doesn't include intermediate daytime stops vs. Trailways which did.


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## railiner

In the 1970's, Continental Trailways in Wichita converted a few of their Silver Eagles into sleeper buses for charters for a ski club that would leave Wichita on a Friday afternoon, travel overnight to various Colorado ski resorts arriving early enough on a Saturday morning to yield a full day of skiiing. The group would stay over Saturday night at a ski lodge, get in another full day of skiing on Sunday, then leave late Sunday afternoon for the overnight trip back to Wichita, arriving early enough Monday morning to get to work. The package for members was very reasonable. It might seem like a grueling ordeal to some, but the members were all young twenty-somethings...

The conversion was to fit Pullman style sections whose seats would fold down into lower berths, while the uppers were dropped down from above. The package racks were all removed to allow this installation. There were a total of 20 berths would could accommodate up to 40 if the berthmates were 'friendly'....

These buses sat unused in the Wichita garage the rest of the week....


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## Jack Davis

railiner said:


> That’s how they did it. On the transcontinental Five Star trip, the hostess served sandwiches, hot and cold beverages, fruits and cookies, as well as hot soups. At breakfast time, she would distribute vouchers to pay for hot breakfast inside the terminal restaurants.
> 
> The Golden Eagles featured extra legroom, but not 2&1 seating like some of the more luxurious examples shown above. The earlier type ‘01’ Golden Eagles, did offer a 9 passenger “observation lounge” in the far rear, separated from the revenue seats by the lav on one side, and the galley on the other.


Then we were on an 'earlier model' because it had the rear "observation Lounge" with the lav and galley in front of it. I went back there for a short time, the upper 'pull open' windows were open as some people smoked. (Remember this was in 1962).


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## Jack Davis

railiner said:


> In the 1970's, Continental Trailways in Wichita converted a few of their Silver Eagles into sleeper buses for charters for a ski club that would leave Wichita on a Friday afternoon, travel overnight to various Colorado ski resorts arriving early enough on a Saturday morning to yield a full day of skiiing. The group would stay over Saturday night at a ski lodge, get in another full day of skiing on Sunday, then leave late Sunday afternoon for the overnight trip back to Wichita, arriving early enough Monday morning to get to work. The package for members was very reasonable. It might seem like a grueling ordeal to some, but the members were all young twenty-somethings...
> 
> The conversion was to fit Pullman style sections whose seats would fold down into lower berths, while the uppers were dropped down from above. The package racks were all removed to allow this installation. There were a total of 20 berths would could accommodate up to 40 if the berthmates were 'friendly'....
> 
> These buses sat unused in the Wichita garage the rest of the week....


The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?


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## railiner

Jack Davis said:


> The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?


We relieved the Wichita driver at Denver. He stayed over for the return trip. Sometimes the relief was at Pueblo, depending on the destination.


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## railiner

Jack Davis said:


> Then we were on an 'earlier model' because it had the rear "observation Lounge" with the lav and galley in front of it. I went back there for a short time, the upper 'pull open' windows were open as some people smoked. (Remember this was in 1962).


That sounds right. The last Golden Eagles, based on the 1969 design ‘05’ type Silver Eagles, had the lav in the conventional rear corner, with the galley next to it in the resr.
There were four facing seats around a ‘lounge’ table, in front of the galley, that were ‘non-revenue’.


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## Mailliw

Interesting design concept and it's on a route I could easily try. There is a market for overnight bus travel, even if the busses are just standard intercity ones. With this set up they could even decide to sell tickets for both seats and beds at different prices. Even only having 2:1 reclining seats makes overnight bus travel more appealing. You could get even more flexibility on routes that allow double-decker buses.


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## George Harris

Jack Davis said:


> The "grueling ordeal" was on the driver making the whole trip by himself, unless the task was accomplished by two drivers at a stop (driver change) along the way.?


Nope. Couldn't happen. There were, and still are, very specific rules by the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission), now Department of Transportation, but not sure when that change of name occurred, that limited the maximum number of hours driving and minimum number hours rest for drivers.


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## ehbowen

George Harris said:


> Nope. Couldn't happen. There were, and still are, very specific rules by the ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission), now Department of Transportation, but not sure when that change of name occurred, that limited the maximum number of hours driving and minimum number hours rest for drivers.


Very true. Back when Trailways still operated a national network, there were always en route terminals, although they may have been operated by another Trailways franchisee company, where servicing could be performed and a rested, qualified driver obtained as the bus and passengers continued on.

Another poster here said some time back that, at these terminals, the bus itself may have changed! Apparently it was Trailways practice, when a long-distance route passed through the territories of multiple franchisees, to 'require' pax to leave the bus as it was driven away for 'servicing' (while they made a meal stop or extended break). The bus would be driven to a service garage, yes...where an identical bus would be ready to continue the trip, and Trailways employees would go through and transfer any passengers' personal effects from the old bus to the new bus, placing them in the same seat in the exact same position! Unless they read the fine print of the registration number and carrier on the side of the bus, the passengers were no wiser!


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## railiner

ehbowen said:


> Very true. Back when Trailways still operated a national network, there were always en route terminals, although they may have been operated by another Trailways franchisee company, where servicing could be performed and a rested, qualified driver obtained as the bus and passengers continued on.
> 
> Another poster here said some time back that, at these terminals, the bus itself may have changed! Apparently it was Trailways practice, when a long-distance route passed through the territories of multiple franchisees, to 'require' pax to leave the bus as it was driven away for 'servicing' (while they made a meal stop or extended break). The bus would be driven to a service garage, yes...where an identical bus would be ready to continue the trip, and Trailways employees would go through and transfer any passengers' personal effects from the old bus to the new bus, placing them in the same seat in the exact same position! Unless they read the fine print of the registration number and carrier on the side of the bus, the passengers were no wiser!


That sounds like one of my earlier posts...the three locations that I recall that was practiced were Omaha, Wichita, and Amarillo on transcontinental thru schedules. It was only done when transcontinental pool schedules equipment was "home-shopped" at a mid-schedule point. And it was only done in one direction. There were other mid-schedule thru bus "home shops" such as Raleigh, but since there were many more schedules that ended there, they would turn thru trips into trips that ended or started there from the end points to avoid the mid-schedule "cut". 
I would add that it was illegal to have passenger's on board, whenever they refueled inside a garage. Refueling on the outside with passenger's is permissible, as is done at some rest stop locations.


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## ehbowen

railiner said:


> That sounds like one of my earlier posts...the three locations that I recall that was practiced were Omaha, Wichita, and Amarillo on transcontinental thru schedules. It was only done when transcontinental pool schedules equipment was "home-shopped" at a mid-schedule point. And it was only done in one direction. There were other mid-schedule thru bus "home shops" such as Raleigh, but since there were many more schedules that ended there, they would turn thru trips into trips that ended or started there from the end points to avoid the mid-schedule "cut".
> I would add that it was illegal to have passenger's on board, whenever they refueled inside a garage. Refueling on the outside with passenger's is permissible, as is done at some rest stop locations.


Yes, that was most likely your post which I referenced. I didn't look it up and I didn't remember who posted it, but I did give credit to "another poster here." Good info; I learned something that day.


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## jiml

Jeb Brooks on Napaway:


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## Qapla

Jacksonville/Atlanta could use one of these - especially since Amtrak does not service Jax/ATL or JAX/NOL so the train has to go to WDC (and maybe Chicago) before going to NOL


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## joelkfla

Qapla said:


> Jacksonville/Atlanta could use one of these - especially since Amtrak does not service Jax/ATL or JAX/NOL so the train has to go to WDC (and maybe Chicago) before going to NOL


It's only a 5-hour drive. The bus would be leaving or arriving in the middle of the night.


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## jiml

I'd think you're looking for endpoints a minimum 8 hours drive apart, with 10 being the sweet spot, and intermediate stops would diminish the "Do Not Disturb" aspect of the service.


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## Qapla

joelkfla said:


> It's only a 5-hour drive. The bus would be leaving or arriving in the middle of the night.



Maybe from city limit sign to city limit sign ... when's the last time you drove from downtown JAX to downtown ATL?

We just went there from Gainesville (about the same miles) and, allowing for traffic and getting to downtown ATL it took considerably longer than 5 hours - especially if you drive the actual speed limit

According to Google


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