# Retired Firefighter goes missing on Amtrak Train



## diesteldorf (Sep 17, 2012)

Didn't see this posted yet, so my apologies if it is already being discussed. Hopefully, it'll have a happy ending.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/17/us/missing-amtrak-passenger/index.html?hpt=hp_t3


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## NW cannonball (Sep 17, 2012)

diesteldorf said:


> Didn't see this posted yet, so my apologies if it is already being discussed. Hopefully, it'll have a happy ending.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t3


Followed the link to CNN and the facebook page. Family is really worried and sending relatives to possible stops where the man might have de-trained and pushing news outlets and local law to help.

The symptom of disorientation - believing you are somewhere totally other than where you actually are - seems to happen with strokes - happened with my mom. After 10 minutes talking with her in hospital room about grandkids and miscellaneous things, all seeming totally normal, she asked me to get her warm socks from the closet in her bedroom (just over there) - (she'd been in the hospital several days but seemed to think she was home in bed)

Seemingly happened with this person - last verified contact was with conductor about 05:00 - when subject seemed to think he was somewhere else. But at 0500 that's not unusual.

What can passengers do in the extremely rare case where other passengers have acute medical problem? If it was acute chest pain, maybe the the classic movie thing "Is there a doctor aboard?" might work. With sudden-onset confusion - who could possibly know or help?

Not that I'm scared of dying on the train, airplane, city bus -- just wondering what to do in the rare case - how to help a stranger.


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## SarahZ (Sep 17, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> With sudden-onset confusion - who could possibly know or help?
> 
> Not that I'm scared of dying on the train, airplane, city bus -- just wondering what to do in the rare case - how to help a stranger.


Alert a car attendant, who can find a conductor. They can check the person's phone for emergency contacts or relatives who might know the person's itinerary and medical conditions. If they don't have a cell phone, they may have a list of contact numbers in their wallet, purse, or carry-on.

Failing that, the conductor could radio ahead to the nearest town and get the police involved. The police can use the person's name and address (I would hope they'd have ID and/or a luggage tag on their carry-on) to look for their next of kin. In my parents' case, the call would come to me or my brother.

Not quite related, but a handy tip for those with iPhones:

Like most people, my phone is locked with a passcode, but you can press the "emergency call" button to access the number pad. Since this doesn't solve the issue of someone figuring out who to call in an emergency, I made a list of numbers in the Notes app, took a screenshot, and set that picture as the background image for my lock screen. So, even when my phone is locked, someone can see my boyfriend's number, my best friend's number, and my doctor's number.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 17, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> Seemingly happened with this person - last verified contact was with conductor about 05:00 - when subject seemed to think he was somewhere else. But at 0500 that's not unusual.
> 
> What can passengers do in the extremely rare case where other passengers have acute medical problem? If it was acute chest pain, maybe the the classic movie thing "Is there a doctor aboard?" might work. With sudden-onset confusion - who could possibly know or help?
> 
> Not that I'm scared of dying on the train, airplane, city bus -- just wondering what to do in the rare case - how to help a stranger.


What to do. Stay with the passenger who is having a medical issue. On the train have someone other than yourself, get / alert a staff member. Do not restrict the movement of the sick, but also don't let them leave the moving train. Report the medical issue to conductor.

That the short story.

The issue in this case the conductor fail to realize there was a problem. It happens, there main job is not medical. If you ever think someone is have a issue who not a family member you may have trouble get that person help, even if you are able to call out the emergency medical service yourself, confused people are a hard call to make, even for the trained medical personal.

Sorry but I have see MD blow calls, nevermind the bystander.

.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 17, 2012)

I sincerely hope that this guy is found, and is returned safely. My thoughts go out to him and his family.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> A handy tip for those with iPhones:
> 
> Like most people, my phone is locked with a passcode, but you can press the "emergency call" button to access the number pad. Since this doesn't solve the issue of someone figuring out who to call in an emergency, I made a list of numbers in the Notes app, took a screenshot, and set that picture as the background image for my lock screen. So, even when my phone is locked, someone can see my boyfriend's number, my best friend's number, and my doctor's number.


Win

Like

Don't forget the tag of "ICE" (in case of emergency). So if your regular cell phone is found with you, the rescue personal can scroll down your director and know who to call.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 17, 2012)

Mrs. RRB and I were on the CZ with this man. When we boarded in SLC at 3am he was standing outside the 633 car and acting strangely. He came into the lower floor and asked for his luggage. I wasn't sure whether he was in the correct car as I thought he was boarding in SLC?

He seemed rather confused but at that time in the morning we just went to our room and went to sleep. Our car attendant was on her sleep break and the 632 attendant was helping board some people in his car. We had told him we rode Amtrak alot and could find our room without help. There were several people on the platform since SLC is a crew change stop and there is a long stay there.

We saw him at various places along the way and he got off in Grand Junction and again at Denver. Our car attendant said she was concerned about him, but he told her he had forgotten to take his medicine and that he would be o.k.

When we approached Galesburg, there was an all out search for him as no one had seen him all morning. They checked the diner, lounge car and instructed all personnel to check every restroom and sleeper compartment along the way. He never showed up and everyone was now very worried.

We saw Amtrak and Chicago police boarding the CZ when we arrived in Chicago Union Station and suspected that he was still missing.

Such a shame as it does look like he must have gotten off somewhere after Denver. Our ride across Nebraska was a really rough one and the car was shaking all over. He may have been fearful of what was happening and gotten off at one of the Nebraska stations??

Sure hope he turns up and he is safe. It must be a nightmare for his family, but we wondered why the family would let someone with these medical situations travel alone.?


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## SarahZ (Sep 17, 2012)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > A handy tip for those with iPhones:
> ...


They can't scroll through my Contacts because my phone is locked with a passcode. That's why I have the emergency contacts saved as a background for the lock screen.


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## PerRock (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Just-Thinking-51 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorcha said:
> ...


I've never heard of the idea to label contacts "ICE" for emergencies, and if I were looking thru someones phone for an emergency number "ICE" would not flag up to me as an emergency. However "Emergency" would.

Most phones have an emergency mode where you can hold down the volume button for a little while and it'll unlock the telephone part of the phone, regardless if you have a passcode on it or not. Some Android lock apps allow you to turn this function off; on iPhones you cannot. It is an industry-set standard and should work on any phone.

peter


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 17, 2012)

Railroad Bill said:


> Mrs. RRB and I were on the CZ with this man. When we boarded in SLC at 3am he was standing outside the 633 car and acting strangely. He came into the lower floor and asked for his luggage. I wasn't sure whether he was in the correct car as I thought he was boarding in SLC?
> 
> He seemed rather confused but at that time in the morning we just went to our room and went to sleep. Our car attendant was on her sleep break and the 632 attendant was helping board some people in his car. We had told him we rode Amtrak alot and could find our room without help. There were several people on the platform since SLC is a crew change stop and there is a long stay there.
> 
> ...


I'm confused now. The article says the conductor saw Dowd in OMA. If there was a search for him just before GBB then hemust have gotten off between OMA and GBB, right?


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 17, 2012)

If the conductor is sure he talked to him in Omaha, then that would make sense. But the family seems to be focused on Lincoln, a stop preceding Omaha, which would indicate that there is some question as to where he was last seen. Our car attendant would have received the Omaha newspaper in Omaha and placed it outside our door early in the morning. He apparently never got the paper and was not seen after that? :unsure:


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## Acela150 (Sep 17, 2012)

Hopefully the brother firefighter is found safe and sound and can be cleared to go home with his family.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Just-Thinking-51 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorcha said:
> ...


Sorcha your way of doing it, earn you a "Win" and a "Like". Don't change it. The best way I have hear to beat the password thing. However for the rest of us who don't have the lastest toys, Please tag your emergency contact with the "ICE". If you got the space "Emergency Contact" will work too. Otherwise the emergency room clerk will call ever number in your phone to find out who you are and what is your medical history.


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## Notelvis (Sep 18, 2012)

Railroad Bill -

The information you have suggests strongly that this passenger got off the train in Omaha and never got back on...... or, if he was on the train leaving Omaha, that he never returned to his room.

The family has a facebook page up regarding their search and this is information which may help them narrow the search area a bit more. Would you consider sharing your information with the family via facebook?


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 18, 2012)

I am afraid the information re: Omaha came from the news reports. We were sleeping in Omaha and did not actually see him. The last time we saw him was in Denver on the platform. The reports seem to be a bit conflicting since the family seems to be launching their search via Lincoln, while the one conductor seems to say he talked to him in Omaha. I believe the police departments are doing their best to locate him, but I am fearful that they seem to not know exactly where he may have detrained.

I do not think I have anything to add to what they already know and I do not do Facebook.


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## Notelvis (Sep 18, 2012)

I see -

I wonder if he returned to the train even in Denver? With the temporary station being across a busy street from the platform, it would be quite easy for someone to wander away unnoticed and become lost there as well.


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## cirdan (Sep 18, 2012)

Notelvis said:


> I see -
> 
> I wonder if he returned to the train even in Denver? With the temporary station being across a busy street from the platform, it would be quite easy for someone to wander away unnoticed and become lost there as well.



So still no news? This is getting worrying. Especially if he should be taking medications but isn't.


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## Notelvis (Sep 18, 2012)

New information from another passenger on the train has lead the family to believe that Mr. Dowd may have fallen off the train sometime before 11:00pm Thursday night. The search is now focusing on eastern Colorado and western Nebraska.

Sadly, having been missing for 4-5 days now with no sign, it's more likely that he fell from the train than it is he simply wandered away during a station stop.

Working Link below - not sure why I can't get it to work in this particular post.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 18, 2012)

Notelvis, the link doesnt work.

I am going to keep hoping and praying that this firefighter is found alive.


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## Notelvis (Sep 18, 2012)

Link Fixed


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 18, 2012)

Try this


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks AB, that worked.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 18, 2012)

Amtrak Cajun said:


> Thanks AB, that worked.


There was extra http\\'s in the other link.


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## E Runs (Sep 18, 2012)

My wife and I were on that train. After the GBB stop the 633 car attendant came on the intercom saying she was looking for Mr Dowd, she repeated this 2-3 times. This made us concerned but we thought he may have been in the SSL where it's hard to hear announcements. As we approached CUS the conductor came over the intercom stating he wanted the OBS to check (I'm paraphrasing) "every bathroom, room, nook and cranny on board" and for them not to leave their car until every square inch was double checked. At this we knew there was the possibility of something being seriously wrong. Today is this first time I've logged on since returning home and my heart broke when I saw this.

EDIT: I see much of the same info was covered by RRB, I posted the above before having read the thread. I can't recall seeing the gentleman in question but then again we were 2 cars forward in 631.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Sep 18, 2012)

E Runs said:


> EDIT: I see much of the same info was covered by RRB, I posted the above before having read the thread. I can't recall seeing the gentleman in question but then again we were 2 cars forward in 631.


The info you posted push the story forward, thank you for your input. RRB was missing the PA statements, it's nice to know that crew notice the problem before Chicago.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 19, 2012)

Railroad Bill said:


> I am afraid the information re: Omaha came from the news reports. We were sleeping in Omaha and did not actually see him. The last time we saw him was in Denver on the platform. The reports seem to be a bit conflicting since the family seems to be launching their search via Lincoln, while the one conductor seems to say he talked to him in Omaha. I believe the police departments are doing their best to locate him, but I am fearful that they seem to not know exactly where he may have detrained.
> 
> I do not think I have anything to add to what they already know and I do not do Facebook.


I ewas wondering about the same thing. The gfamily may have gotten some eveidence that Dowd got off in LNK depite the conductor contradicting it. Now they think he jumped off the train. I hope he's OK.



Notelvis said:


> New information from another passenger on the train has lead the family to believe that Mr. Dowd may have fallen off the train sometime before 11:00pm Thursday night. The search is now focusing on eastern Colorado and western Nebraska.
> 
> Sadly, having been missing for 4-5 days now with no sign, it's more likely that he fell from the train than it is he simply wandered away during a station stop.
> 
> Working Link below - not sure why I can't get it to work in this particular post.


If he did fall from the train, woudn't it be easy to find his body? Not that I hope he's gone.


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## cirdan (Sep 19, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> If he did fall from the train, woudn't it be easy to find his body? Not that I hope he's gone.


how easy is it to fall from a train? I would have thought the doors can't be opened that easily by accident.

And even if somebody did manage, wouldn't there then be an open door that somebody would see?

I'm stil hoping he got off at the wrong station and walked away. Hopefully somebody will pick him him.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 19, 2012)

cirdan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > If he did fall from the train, woudn't it be easy to find his body? Not that I hope he's gone.
> ...


Unfortunately, there's no way to tell what happened until they find the man dead or alive.

If he suffered a stroke or mini-stroke and got disoriented - he could have left the train at a station - and wandered off.

Or could have opened a door (difficult but not improbable) and left the train between stops at 79 mph.

Searching the whole many hundreds of miles of ROW will take days at least - searching the possible stations and vicinity where he might have wandered off will take a long time -

Hope that he is OK. No way the onboard crew could keep track of him - many of us sleeper car people have no need to see the car attendant for a half-day or more.

Hope he's well -- if he's dead - well, it happens to all of us.

Understand that most local law and Amtrak and the family are still searching.

Hoping for a happy, or at least not bad, ending to this story.

And hope his family can find out what happened.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 19, 2012)

cirdan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > If he did fall from the train, woudn't it be easy to find his body? Not that I hope he's gone.
> ...


About the doors on Amtrak superliners - yes if the door is opened there is a visual indication -- thinking that it's an amber light on the outside of the rail car.


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## VentureForth (Sep 19, 2012)

In the previous two cases of passengers leaving the train while it was in motion, it was determined that they could open the door while the train was moving and the door would likely swing back shut. But in this case, it appears that there is a witness that said they noticed the door ajar.

What I don't get is that a body that has fallen off the train should take a whole lot less than a week to find if there is any daylight freight traffic on that line at all.


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## hessjm (Sep 19, 2012)

NW cannonball said:


> cirdan said:
> 
> 
> > Swadian Hardcore said:
> ...


The lights on the side of the Superliner are brake status indicators.


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## cirdan (Sep 19, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> But in this case, it appears that there is a witness that said they noticed the door ajar.


That changes the game entirely, and does make it seem likely that he fell from the train while it was moving.

This is very sad news.

I'm still hoping for a more positive outcome, and my thoughts and prayers are for his family.



VentureForth said:


> What I don't get is that a body that has fallen off the train should take a whole lot less than a week to find if there is any daylight freight traffic on that line at all.


If it fell into some bushes or somthing like that it's not likely to be seen by the crews of passing trains. It could of course also be that he survived the fall and walked away, probably with injuries.


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## E Runs (Sep 19, 2012)

cirdan said:


> how easy is it to fall from a train? *I would have thought the doors can't be opened that easily by accident.*
> 
> And even if somebody did manage, wouldn't there then be an open door that somebody would see?
> 
> I'm stil hoping he got off at the wrong station and walked away. Hopefully somebody will pick him him.


SuperLiner doors are pretty easy to open, turn the upper and lower levers and pull. As far as I've seen there are no on-board indicator lamps for open doors.


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## cirdan (Sep 19, 2012)

E Runs said:


> SuperLiner doors are pretty easy to open, turn the upper and lower levers and pull.


Sure, but that's not the normal way you open a door, so it's hard to imagine somebody, no matter how absent minded or confused, doing that by accident.


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## Ocala Mike (Sep 19, 2012)

Hmmm...He was a Retired Firefighter. Even in a disoriented state, he probably had plenty of experience in handling "points of ingress/egress," i.e., doors.


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## SarahZ (Sep 19, 2012)

cirdan said:


> E Runs said:
> 
> 
> > SuperLiner doors are pretty easy to open, turn the upper and lower levers and pull.
> ...


A lawsuit against Amtrak a while back showed that the dog latch is fairly easy to figure out, even by someone who is drunk or disoriented.

Is there any way they could put a better lock on those doors; or is it a safety concern? I realize it would be a huge issue if the train had to be evacuated quickly and only the CAs and conductors were able to unlock the doors. There has to be some way to prevent this from happening, though.


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## Concerned (Sep 19, 2012)

Missing Person: Charlie Dowd - Please help us find him

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPersonCharlieDowd



> Repost with date: *If anyone was on the Amtrak California Zephyr Train #6 from Emeryville, CA to Chicago, IL (with pick ups in Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska) and you think you saw Charlie, can you please message us? Departed CA on 9/12 in Utah 9/13 in Ill 9/14*


Thank you so much.


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## Blackwolf (Sep 19, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Is there any way they could put a better lock on those doors; or is it a safety concern? I realize it would be a huge issue if the train had to be evacuated quickly and only the CAs and conductors were able to unlock the doors. There has to be some way to prevent this from happening, though.



I believe the answer lies, like most problems concerning Amtrak, with funding. It would be an extremely easy solution to place an electromagnetic locking device on all the older swing-style vestible doors in service on remaining heritage, Superliner and Viewliner car so equipped. Newer cars already have this problem solved (I know for sure that the California cars are equipped, and feel that the Acela and possibly the Amfleet cars are as well) with wheel-movement sensors that will automatically close and lock the sliding vestibule doors when the train is in motion. The technology is thus already in existance, has been for decades, and is reliable. Electromagnetic door locks are found just about everywhere, including banks, stores and in great deal of public facilities where remote locking capability is desired.

Place on each door an electromagnetic lock that, when the train is in motion, ensures that the door cannot be opened. It is automatic, turning off and thus allowing the door to be opened when the train is stopped, and turning back on when movement is detected. A key lock next to the door, both interior and exterior, would allow OBS to override the electromagnet for the opening and closing of the door when the lock is active. And on the inside of the vestibule, for emergency situations, have a fire alarm-style pull station covered by a vandal-proof break-out glass panel that deactivates the locks on both doors.

But again, this means spending money.


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## Railroad Bill (Sep 19, 2012)

Concerned said:


> Missing Person: Charlie Dowd - Please help us find him
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/MissingPersonCharlieDowd
> 
> ...



As we stated earlier, the last time we saw Mr. Dowd was on the platform in Denver. We went back to our room on the all aboard call and did not see him again after that. We had the car attendant put our beds down around the Fort Morgan area and were in our bedroom until we went to breakfast the next morning in Iowa. The night ride across Nebraska was very rough. Did not sleep much as the car was moving and shaking most of the evening. Our thoughts are with the family and hope he will be located soon. RRB


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## VentureForth (Sep 19, 2012)

Blackwolf said:


> Sorcha said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any way they could put a better lock on those doors; or is it a safety concern? I realize it would be a huge issue if the train had to be evacuated quickly and only the CAs and conductors were able to unlock the doors. There has to be some way to prevent this from happening, though.
> ...


Pnumatic doors are better, IMHO. One button opens all the doors and in an emergency, you pull a valve.


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## creddick (Sep 19, 2012)

Any word on this gentleman yet? Has he been found?


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## Blackwolf (Sep 19, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> Pnumatic doors are better, IMHO. One button opens all the doors and in an emergency, you pull a valve.



I agree, they are better for a full replacement option. But for a interm "band-aid" fix to an apparent issue that has been becoming a greater liability as time goes on, an electromagnet lock could be the easiest fix. Completely overhauling all Superliner, Viewliner, and heritage equipment (are there any others?) with swing doors to pneumatic sliding doors would likely cost millions over the entire fleet and would take years to implement. Leaving the current doors in service, adding a small electromagnet lock to them plus the required equipment, seems much more cost-effective and quicker to implement. Dunno though.

No need for single-point opening doors just yet, at least on the LD fleet.


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## CHamilton (Sep 19, 2012)

> Missing man may have fallen off train
> 
> Wednesday, September 19, 2012
> 
> ...


Via the Facebook page.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 19, 2012)

> Jennifer said she was concerned about the lack of response from Amtrak and didn't feel like they were taking the matter seriously enough.


The sheriff should just search along the tracks anyway. If amtrak won't give him permission to do a ground search then put a chopper in the air and fly the route. Although the sheriff should just search the amtrak property anyway. Whats the amtrak police going to do? arrest the sheriff and his deputy's?


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## VentureForth (Sep 19, 2012)

Ummm... Yes. But what property is Amtrak's along that route? I thought the freights owned all the track.


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## Agent (Sep 19, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> > Jennifer said she was concerned about the lack of response from Amtrak and didn't feel like they were taking the matter seriously enough.
> 
> 
> The sheriff should just search along the tracks anyway. If amtrak won't give him permission to do a ground search then put a chopper in the air and fly the route. Although the sheriff should just search the amtrak property anyway. Whats the amtrak police going to do? arrest the sheriff and his deputy's?


What Amtrak property? Do they want to search the cars? Or does the sheriff not know that Amtrak doesn't own the railroad tracks? Have they tried contacting the BNSF police?


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## zephyr17 (Sep 19, 2012)

Agent said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > > Jennifer said she was concerned about the lack of response from Amtrak and didn't feel like they were taking the matter seriously enough.
> ...


Journalists are famously clueless when it comes to railroads. Just because it isn't called out in the story, I would be very surprised if the BNSF police were not invovled, and permission to access the ROW would indeed have to come from BNSF and not Amtrak. In any case, if the local sheriff didn't involve BNSF, Amtrak PD knows and would.

There is a lot of supposition on agencies involved with relatively little information. Why don't we assume the proper authorities are involved?


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## A.J. (Sep 19, 2012)

I feel so badly for this family. A year and a half ago my grandmother and I took the Auto Train. Her mind was slowly starting to decline but at the time she was still very much with it. However, she had never slept overnight on the train and it totally whacked her out. She would sleep for a few minutes and then be confused about where she was, why there was so much motion, etc. If this gentleman already had medical issues, didn't take medicine, I could easily see how his issues could become exacerbated. At this point the outcome does not seem like a good one, but I hope the family can find some closure.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 19, 2012)

In the story it said the sheriff was waiting for permission from amtrak to search the tracks. So either the story writer got it wrong or the sheriff got it wrong. the family seams to think amtrak is trying to cover it up.


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## AlanB (Sep 19, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> In the story it said the sheriff was waiting for permission from amtrak to search the tracks. So either the story writer got it wrong or the sheriff got it wrong. the family seams to think amtrak is trying to cover it up.


I don't know who got it wrong and frankly it doesn't really matter. But it is wrong!

Amtrak cannot grant access to something that they don't own. And outside of the Northeast corridor, a mile or so in Chicago, and Michigan, Amtrak doesn't own tracks.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 19, 2012)

either way if BNSF isn't giving out permission then just put a police chopper in the air and search that way and BNSF can't stop them from doing that.


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## CHamilton (Sep 20, 2012)

Amtrak posted on Facebook:



> To all of those expressing concern about Mr. Charles Dowd, we want to assure you that the Amtrak Police Department is continuing to conduct an active investigation to locate a passenger that has been reported missing. APD has met with family members of Charles Dowd who was reported missing after he did not arrive in Chicago while traveling from Emeryville to Montreal. The Amtrak Police Department is working closely with local police departments along the route of the train, as well as the BNSF Railroad Police Department to locate the missing person.


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## Jamiah (Sep 20, 2012)

Railroad Bill said:


> Concerned said:
> 
> 
> > Missing Person: Charlie Dowd - Please help us find him
> ...


Hello everyone--I read a couple of comments from folks who said they weren't on Facebook--if you're not and you were an eyewitness to seeing Charlie Dowd on the zepher, please call the Dowd family. 650-766-6470 or Amtrak Police 800-331-0008. The family would benefit greatly from hearing from you--it would aid their search. May God bless you all for your concern and let's continue to pray for a good outcome.


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## amamba (Sep 20, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> either way if BNSF isn't giving out permission then just put a police chopper in the air and search that way and BNSF can't stop them from doing that.


I feel very badly this family. This is a horrible incident and my heart goes out to them.

But amtrakwolverine, where are these so called police choppers that you want put up into the air? Last time I checked, many rural or even suburban (or even urban!) police districts do not have helicopters at their whim to use on a moment's notice.


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## NW cannonball (Sep 20, 2012)

amamba said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > either way if BNSF isn't giving out permission then just put a police chopper in the air and search that way and BNSF can't stop them from doing that.
> ...


If needed, state-supported helicopters or even the national Guard could be called on.

But there's only so much you can see from a helicopter. And, they are total gas-hogs with limited range. And, in this case there are so many hundreds of miles to search.

Last time I had anything to do with a lost person was -- a co-worker's autistic son ran away from his summer camp. No more than 5x5 mile possible search area. And the searchers knew exactly where he was last seen - Western Wisconsin - where the tree cover is heavier - but - they only found the man on the sixth day - with MANY volunteers besides all of local law enforcement working dawn to dusk. The man was bug-bitten, bare-naked, dehydrated, huddling by a small stream, but survived.

Perhaps all those satellite photos of everybody's back yard give a false impression -- but searching for something as small as a person in a "small" area like a 5 mile square can be extremely difficult. When there's so little clue where he might have been lost - it's much much more difficult.

Hoping for the best.

Edit --

IF anyone out there has *any* clue to localize the search - PLEASE - call the Amtrak police - contact the family's Facebook page - or call local law enforcement


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 20, 2012)

amtrakwolverine said:


> either way if BNSF isn't giving out permission then just put a police chopper in the air and search that way and BNSF can't stop them from doing that.


I sincerely doubt that BNSF is refusing to cooperate with the police in this instance.


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## CHamilton (Sep 20, 2012)

From the Facebook page:

Here is a picture of Charlie from a fellow Amtrak passenger - this was taken the same day as his last known contact...We think that Charlie was wearing a Brown Princess Cruises Brisbane Australia t-shirt, grey camouflage cargo pants and white sneakers with Velcro straps, glasses and possibly a grey bucket hat.


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## SarahZ (Sep 20, 2012)

I understand that the tracks are private property, but why does the sheriff's office have to wait for permission from BNSF or whoever to search for him? It's not as if they're entering a residence. What law are they violating by searching the tracks if the tracks are within the county line? I see it as searching the mall for a missing child or searching a river for a missing boater.

Is it because they'll have to close that portion of the track to search? That I could understand, but I would just have the volunteers stay off the tracks as they walk the path. If they found something on the tracks, then they could radio to BNSF to halt train traffic, which they would have to do anyway.


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## VentureForth (Sep 20, 2012)

It's called trespassing and it's against the law without permission or a warrant. If the scope of the search were very limited, there can be exceptions to the 4th amendment, if a crime is visible from public land or to prevent a crime from taking place. It's probably OK for them, to, but it's also threading the needle very closely.


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## SarahZ (Sep 20, 2012)

Makes sense, sort of like asking a farmer for permission before sending a swath of searchers onto his 20 acres of farm land.


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## jis (Sep 20, 2012)

Sorcha said:


> Makes sense, sort of like asking a farmer for permission before sending a swath of searchers onto his 20 acres of farm land.


Yup. In addition there is a pure logistical issue to. It would not be a good thing for the Sheriff to inadvertently get run over by a train while s/he is busy searching either.


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## robin (Sep 20, 2012)

The reason they went to Lincoln there was a person said seen him there and as I understand it, it's not real far from railroad station. I could be wrong on the close to railroad station. What I don't understand is why there not looking on security footage at train stations. If they are they haven't said anything.


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## CHamilton (Sep 20, 2012)

From Amtrak on Facebook:



> Update on Missing Person Charles Dowd
> 
> by Amtrak on Thursday, September 20, 2012 at 12:16pm ·
> 
> ...


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## Ispolkom (Sep 20, 2012)

robin said:


> What I don't understand is why there not looking on security footage at train stations. If they are they haven't said anything.


I'd be surprised if there are security cameras at train stations in Nebraska.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 21, 2012)

How about a tracking device like a ankle bracelet that police use to keep track of house arresters for this kind of situation. would make finding him a bit easier if its not removed. They should invest is something like that for those who might accidentally get confused and wander off the train at the wrong station and not know how to call for help etc. It would work great for nursing home patients also.


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## MontanaJim (Sep 21, 2012)

unconfirmed reports say the man's body was found along the tracks in Nebraska by a BNSF employee.


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## MontanaJim (Sep 21, 2012)

Confirmed on facebook page. So Sad:

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPersonCharlieDowd


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## CHamilton (Sep 21, 2012)

MontanaJim said:


> Confirmed on facebook page. So Sad:
> 
> https://www.facebook...rsonCharlieDowd


For those of you who are not on Facebook, the family's statement is also available here.


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## CHamilton (Sep 21, 2012)

Amtrak posted on Facebook:

Update on Charles Dowd

by Amtrak on Friday, September 21, 2012 at 6:43pm ·

The Amtrak Police Department is working with the Dundy County (Neb.) Coroner to confirm the identity of a male adult tentatively identified as Charles Dowd, 69. The discovery was made late this (Friday) morning along the BNSF Railway tracks about seven miles from Nebraska-Colorado border. Amtrak Police informed the Dowd family of this development and met them at the scene, along with San Mateo (Calif.) Detectives and local authorities.

Mr. Dowd was a passenger on Train 6 that left Emeryville, Calif., on Sept. 12 and Amtrak Police issued a missing person bulletin to police agencies on Sept. 14, when the train arrived in Chicago and a search of the train found he was not aboard at the destination and important personal items were left behind.

Amtrak employees are saddened by this development and the case remains an active investigation by the Amtrak Police and other agencies. Persons with information are encouraged to call the Amtrak Police National Communications Center at 800-331-008.


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## June the Coach Rider (Sep 21, 2012)

Too bad they had to find him like this, but at least this gives the family an answer and closure. RIP Mr. Dowd.


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## Shortline (Sep 21, 2012)

Sorry to hear that. I guess I just can't imagine being so disoriented I open, and step out a door on a moving train. Seems to happen more than it should though, hear about this a few times a year. Really is a shame. Haven't followed this very closely, was he traveling alone? Not that it matters really, just curious.


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## MontanaJim (Sep 21, 2012)

I think Amtrak will have to examine ways to make their car doors more secure. i know a college kid fell out of the empire builder and died earlier this year too.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 21, 2012)

RIP Mr Dowd. My heart goes out to the family, and all of those involved in this case.

I agree MontanaJim, they definitely need to improve the door lock situation. I dont know if there is anyway to retrofit new technology to these older cars though. Im sure something could be done. I know there would be alot of money involved, but the safety of the passengers is priceless.


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## Shortline (Sep 21, 2012)

Safety s priceless......and I don't want to be locked n a metal death trap. Locking people in is not the answer in my humble opinion.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 21, 2012)

Well, the lock would have an override or only be able to open on two instance, A in an emergency, or B when opened by the attendant, but what Im saying is that the passengers just wouldnt be able to open the door on their own while in the middle of nowhere at 80mph.


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## amtrakwolverine (Sep 22, 2012)

The current doors at least on superliners have 2 locks. One on top of the door and another in the middle. You have to want to open the door to get out it won't just open all by itself unless you got a lazy crew that didn't shut it right to begin with plus the door opens inwards.


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## Amtrak Cajun (Sep 22, 2012)

Ive seen videos of Amtrak trains on Youtube with doors open as the train is rolling down the track. So yeah, lazy/forgetful crew members could be an issue.

In fact, before I left for my trip, I was watching Crescent vids and saw one sleeper door wide open with the train rolling down the track.


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## Blackwolf (Sep 22, 2012)

Still saying... Easy, quick and foolproof electromagnetic locks are the answer. No being trapped involved; pull the emergency level and they unlock. Heck, the HEP is lost and they unlock. Cleapest fix, and the quickest to install. No fundamental changes needed to the cars.

I personally know people who have worked with Mr. Dowd. This being said, it is not really Amtrak's absolute fault that this happened. That being said, changes can be made. And without tremendous expense.


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## winterskigirl (Sep 22, 2012)

Is it really that easy for an elderly man to open a side door and fall out? That is scary.


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## MattW (Sep 22, 2012)

Before we all go reinventing the wheel, how do the (trainlined?) doors on the Calirofnia cars work? Could retrofitting them onto the existing Superliner fleet provide a solution? I'm assuming running a trainline wouldn't be cost-effective, but what about electronic local door control?


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## trainfan969 (Sep 22, 2012)

MattW said:


> Before we all go reinventing the wheel, how do the (trainlined?) doors on the Calirofnia cars work? Could retrofitting them onto the existing Superliner fleet provide a solution? I'm assuming running a trainline wouldn't be cost-effective, but what about electronic local door control?


For the Surfliner cars, there is a control panel in each car that controls the doors for that particular car or all the cars. The doors are 2 piece and they operate much like elevator doors. I'm sure there is also an interlock to keep the train from moving unless all doors are properly closed.


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## Bruce-C (Sep 22, 2012)

For those of you who are interested in the original topic.

Mr. Doud's body was found Friday in Haigler, Neb.


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## Allypet (Sep 23, 2012)

Bruce-C said:


> For those of you who are interested in the original topic.
> 
> Mr. Doud's body was found Friday in Haigler, Neb.


I'm so sorry. Did he fall from the train, or just wandered off and got lost?


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## Bruce-C (Sep 23, 2012)

A CNN report states that a door was found ajar on the train. And another report states that his body was discovered by railroad police, so that points to his body being near the tracks.


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## SarahZ (Sep 23, 2012)

My mother is diabetic, and if she forgets to take her insulin, she becomes extremely disoriented. We'll be in the middle of a perfectly normal conversation, and then suddenly she'll start to slur her words a bit and start saying things that don't make sense. That's when I ask her to put Dad on the phone and ask him if she took her insulin. Sometimes, even in the midst of her confusion, she'll still be a bit lucid and can snap back to reality at any moment.

It's completely understandable how he may have thought he was in his apartment, especially since he stated he forgot to take his medicine. It's also easy to understand how he may have appeared just fine a moment later. That's so sad.


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## AmtrakBlue (Sep 23, 2012)

My husband was diabetic also and we had moments like that. I always carried the sugar tablets with me just in case.


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## Notelvis (Sep 23, 2012)

winterskigirl said:


> Is it really that easy for an elderly man to open a side door and fall out? That is scary.


In this case, I would suggest that Mr. Dowd, a retired career fire fighter, was probably better equipped than most average citizens in figuring out how to get a door open. Even in a disoriented state this was a man with a lifetime's experience in getting doors opened....... a combination of training and instinct I would guess.


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## VentureForth (Sep 24, 2012)

Notelvis said:


> winterskigirl said:
> 
> 
> > Is it really that easy for an elderly man to open a side door and fall out? That is scary.
> ...


Let's not forget - this has also been recently accomplished by a teen on the EB and an elderly woman on the Autotrain near Jesup, GA.


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## MikefromCrete (Sep 24, 2012)

VentureForth said:


> Notelvis said:
> 
> 
> > winterskigirl said:
> ...


Yeah, opening the door isn't that difficult.


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## Agent (Sep 24, 2012)

Someone made their own report about opening Superliner doors and submitted it to CNN.

"Amtrak Deaths"

Notice that the "reporter" believes that the solution to this is alarms on the doors (cheap alarms easily removed). Alarms won't stop the people who want to jump out, and who's to say a confused person will close the door?


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## cirdan (Sep 24, 2012)

Regardless of what precisely happened (and I hope there will be a full investigation into that), our thoughts should be with the family and friends of the man who lost his life.


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## Acela150 (Sep 24, 2012)

Godspeed Brother..


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## alanh (Sep 25, 2012)

Unfortunately, designing a lock that will still allow emergency egress is pretty complex, particularly in the hostile environment of a train. The constant vibration plus the wide range of temperatures makes designing anything with moving parts a big challenge. It also needs to function after a crash.

An alarm wouldn't be that complex, but would only let you know where to look for the body unfortunately.


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## CHamilton (Oct 23, 2012)

Unlocked Amtrak doors linked to series of deaths http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Local%20News/102112Amtrak-readyhh#.UIYpzFx5mSN


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