# Are Barriers in NYC Subway's Future?



## The Davy Crockett (Jan 6, 2013)

I'd be really, really surprised if this were to ever actually happen, but after the three deaths in December, there are some plans afoot, including one by a private company which claims advertising could make it profitable, to place barriers on the edge of NYC's subway platforms. Here is a link to a news article.


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## jis (Jan 6, 2013)

The technical term usually used is Platform Screen Doors.

Singapore MRT was one of the early users, and they used it as much to make A/C work well as for providing additional safety.


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## the_traveler (Jan 6, 2013)

I would rather have the xxx million or billion of $$$ spent on something more useful. I personally don't think a subway can stop at the exact same spot every time so that each door of the subway aligns with each platform door. And what happens if a car is bad ordered and they have to use some other car which is a few feet or inches longer or shorter or if MTA orders new cars which are longer or shorter. Do they spend another xxx billion to reinstall the doors?

The only way I can see to prevent people on the platform before the train arrives is to not let anyone on the platform until the train stops.

About 20 years ago, my mother was boarding a double decker city bus in London, England while on vacation. The boarding door was in back on the left while the driver was on the front left, of course. As my mother was still boarding, the bus started to pull away from the curb. (The bus was no near full.) So my mother fell to the pavement and broke her arm, requiring a trip to the hospital. Because this happened near the start of our vacation, it necessarily ruined our vicinity to London,

So should London and every other city install these safety doors on every street corner to prevent this from happening again?


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## PRR 60 (Jan 6, 2013)

The Jubilee Line extension of the London Underground has platform barriers and doors at all of the new stations. Relatively speaking, installing the barriers and doors with new construction is easy (sort of) compared to retrofitting barriers and doors into an old station.

Putting things into perspective, the NYC Subway system carries over 5 million passenger a day. Horrible as these two crimes were, the odds of it happening to an individual is extremely low. It is far more likely that a New Yorker will be killed by lightning than by being pushed in front of a train.


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## shinkansen (Jan 10, 2013)

Singapore MRT has the full height doors (As does the HK MRT). They seem to work rather well, and were rather economical compared to what the MRT has in the newer underground stations. (SBS's underground MRT stations were designed from the tart to have these barriers so it was easy to implement. Also note SBS's lines in the MRT which use these barriers is automated in that there is no driver in the vehicle at all. But the system is VERY differant than MTA in NYC.

Now, in contrast, in Japan where suicide by train was so common place that the JR groups proposed installing "blue" LED lights thoguht to reduce jumpers, they found full-height doors like the MRT to be too costly. Most American subways face a cost similar issue, especially NYC with non-conforming station designs (architectural variations)

Here in DC full-height doors will kill Metro's aesthetics for both the underground and above ground stations alike. What JR-East started doing a few years ago along the Yamanote Line was installing half-height barriers. (This is what killed the 8-door cars in the train set, which was a shame, they really sped up boarding and alighting. Rail fans hate the barriers as well, I'm told) They appear to have dramatically cut down on suicides.


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## DET63 (Jan 27, 2013)

> About 20 years ago, my mother was boarding a double decker city bus in London, England while on vacation. The boarding door was in back on the left while the driver was on the front left, of course. As my mother was still boarding, the bus started to pull away from the curb.


No, the driver is on the front right in London. Having passengers board through the rear door, however, is ridiculous--unless the driver is also going to sit at the rear (and I don't see that happening anytime soon!).


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## trainman74 (Jan 27, 2013)

DET63 said:


> No, the driver is on the front right in London. Having passengers board through the rear door, however, is ridiculous--unless the driver is also going to sit at the rear (and I don't see that happening anytime soon!).


Pretty sure boarding at the rear is no longer done in London (unless there are still some routes that have a conductor on board along with the driver...?).

I was in Dublin last year, and their double-decker buses board at the front.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 28, 2013)

trainman74 said:


> DET63 said:
> 
> 
> > No, the driver is on the front right in London. Having passengers board through the rear door, however, is ridiculous--unless the driver is also going to sit at the rear (and I don't see that happening anytime soon!).
> ...


I thought they got rid of the old Routemasters, except on Heritage routes. But I don't know much about European buses.


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## Texan Eagle (Jan 30, 2013)

DET63 said:


> > About 20 years ago, my mother was boarding a double decker city bus in London, England while on vacation. The boarding door was in back on the left while the driver was on the front left, of course. As my mother was still boarding, the bus started to pull away from the curb.
> 
> 
> No, the driver is on the front right in London. Having passengers board through the rear door, however, is ridiculous--unless the driver is also going to sit at the rear (and I don't see that happening anytime soon!).



In the double decker buses in Mumbai (which were inspired by the London Routemasters), passengers even today board from left rear door while the driver sits at the front right corner. However, there is a conductor on the bus who generally makes sure everyone has boarded before ringing a bell that informs the driver to start the bus.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Jan 30, 2013)

I saw these barriers work amazingly well in both Shanghai and Beijing with trains coming every 3 to 4 minutes. In a system that crowded it was really the only way things could possible work. There are lines on the floor which instruct you to line up on either side of the door, keeping the front of the doorway clear so a mass of humanity can poor out, and then 2 lines of people can push there way in. It was quite amazing to see so many people standing in orderly straight lines, and watching the process work over and over again. As a system reaches that level of ridership I don't think you can have it operate any other way. Granted even boarding a train at place like 42nd St. at 5:15 you still don't even come close to wait some of the busier in Beijing look like at 11:00pm, so I think that New York is a long way off from needing something like this, but when you reach a certain point I'm pretty sure these things become almsot indispensable. Although, I'm not sure if Americans would be as orderly.


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## PPorro (Feb 1, 2013)

Long Train Runnin' said:


> Although, I'm not sure if Americans would be as orderly.


You mean the same people who trample each other to death at a sale on Black Friday? Yeah, I'm with you.


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