# Former Amtrak Route, Grenada Subdivision is getting fixed up!



## Amtrak Train Productions (Feb 16, 2022)

As we speak they are upgrading the entire line to 40 mph!


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## George Harris (Feb 17, 2022)

In case anyone is wondering, the "Grenada Subdivision" is that part of the former Illinois Central main between Memphis TN and Jackson MS that is closely paralleled by I-55. It was the route of ICRR passenger trains and the Amtrak City of New Orleans until they were transferred to the longer but much more level Yazoo line that was the historic freight route. 

What is going into this fixing up operation? Obviously if their target is 40 mph it is not restoration of passenger service. If I understand correctly, the ABS is gone, anyway. I do know that when Amtrak moved off the line it was very rough riding and at the point of needing megabucks to be able to continue to allow 79 mph passenger service. Just in the rail: Observing at a couple locations while that line was still used by Amtrak, the rail was 112RE, which means over 70 years old and worn to the point that the tops of the joint bars were shiny from wheel flange contact.


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## neroden (Feb 17, 2022)

So I started looking into this. Since 2015, this line has been ***government-owned*** -- by the North Central Mississippi Regional Railroad Authority, an agency owned by seven counties, with financial support in grants from the state and federal departments of transportation. (This authority was formed by the North Central Mississippi Rail Coalition.) The line is currently leased to / operated by RailUSA. The Authority has $30 million of bonds to pay off from buying the line and is drumming up business.









Back on track: Rescued from oblivion, Grenada Railroad delivers vital







greatergrenada.com





The line is currently being upgraded so it's all ready to handle 286,000-pound GRL. Track is being upgraded to Class II.









Grenada Railway Honored in 2021 Short Line and Regional Railroads of the Year | Grenada Economic Development District News







greatergrenada.com





This does raise the question for me of whether the line might eventually host passenger service again. It's in government hands, which means a friendly operator. The bridge replacement is the *really* expensive part of upgrading, and with new bridges good for 286,000 pounds, they'll probably be good for passenger service. So it would "merely" be track and signal work, plus stations.

There's no significant intermediate population on either route, so it's just a matter of what's faster, or which cities want to put more money into stations. That could change again, as it has before.


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## Anthony V (Feb 17, 2022)

Amtrak fairly recently (by that I mean 2018) opened a new stop in Marks, MS. Because of this, it is highly unlikely that Amtrak would want to reroute service off the Yazoo District, which would mean closing this fairly new stop in Marks. I suppose the Grenada District could be an occasional temporary detour route for the CONO if the Yazoo District is temporarily impassable for some reason, but I just don't see Amtrak moving back to their former route through much of Mississippi due to the investment they made in building a new station just a few years ago.


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## Amtrak Train Productions (Feb 18, 2022)

Anthony V said:


> Amtrak fairly recently (by that I mean 2018) opened a new stop in Marks, MS. Because of this, it is highly unlikely that Amtrak would want to reroute service off the Yazoo District, which would mean closing this fairly new stop in Marks. I suppose the Grenada District could be an occasional temporary detour route for the CONO if the Yazoo District is temporarily impassable for some reason, but I just don't see Amtrak moving back to their former route through much of Mississippi due to the investment they made in building a new station just a few years ago.


I Heard Rumors that CN is helping Grenada Railroad..


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## George Harris (Feb 18, 2022)

Class 2 is 25 mph. At that rate between Memphis and Jackson MS would be in the range of 8 to 10 hours via the Grenada District, versus 4 when it was the passenger main. Think bus bridge instead of detour. To get to 79 mph speed we would need complete signal reinstallation and most likely complete rail replacement and probably 50% plus tie replacement. By the time you are done with all that the bridge costs would seem almost incidental. Maybe not significant population by Northeast standards, but the Grenada district does have more towns with significant population. However, its close proximity to I-55 renders large ridership unlikely.


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## Amtrak Train Productions (Feb 20, 2022)

George Harris said:


> Class 2 is 25 mph. At that rate between Memphis and Jackson MS would be in the range of 8 to 10 hours via the Grenada District, versus 4 when it was the passenger main. Think bus bridge instead of detour. To get to 79 mph speed we would need complete signal reinstallation and most likely complete rail replacement and probably 50% plus tie replacement. By the time you are done with all that the bridge costs would seem almost incidental. Maybe not significant population by Northeast standards, but the Grenada district does have more towns with significant population. However, its close proximity to I-55 renders large ridership unlikely.


In some spots, there's class 4.


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## neroden (Feb 21, 2022)

George Harris said:


> Class 2 is 25 mph. At that rate between Memphis and Jackson MS would be in the range of 8 to 10 hours via the Grenada District, versus 4 when it was the passenger main. Think bus bridge instead of detour. To get to 79 mph speed we would need complete signal reinstallation and most likely complete rail replacement and probably 50% plus tie replacement. By the time you are done with all that the bridge costs would seem almost incidental.



Hmm. Right now these seem to be very cheap bridges. I'm quite used to seeing single small bridges cost $5-$10 million each, which adds up fast. A single large bridge can cost as much as building track and signal for 200 miles, easily; this route seems to be free of large bridges, though.



> Maybe not significant population by Northeast standards,



Yeah, not significant. I live in an MSA of 100K with no passenger rail service. Our most likely connection for new rail service would go to a 47K MSA with no passenger rail service. And that's north of a string of cities and closely spaced MSAs ranging from 18K to 270K along the Susquehanna River with no passenger rail service.

When the largest county I could find was 30K (Yazoo County), I feel comfortable calling it "no significant population on either route". None of these towns would ever get rail service if they weren't on the way from Jackson to Memphis.


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## Amtrak Train Productions (Feb 21, 2022)

neroden said:


> So I started looking into this. Since 2015, this line has been ***government-owned*** -- by the North Central Mississippi Regional Railroad Authority, an agency owned by seven counties, with financial support in grants from the state and federal departments of transportation. (This authority was formed by the North Central Mississippi Rail Coalition.) The line is currently leased to / operated by RailUSA. The Authority has $30 million of bonds to pay off from buying the line and is drumming up business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the Yazoo Sub is 6 miles longer than the Grenada Sub and Grenada Sub was faster.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 14, 2022)

Late to this party, but I think I just saw a video of a vintage IC CONO run (i.e. recent heritage run with vintage equipment) on this line. Lots of causeway bridges - wood trestles and heavily overgrown verges. Runs right through some small towns too. It was the route in the north of the state, iirc. A lot of the bridges, after some googling, looked like they were either in terrible condition or on their last legs. It looked like they were almost temporary to start with. 

Will post the video later (using different platform right now and the history is elsewhere).


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 14, 2022)

As promised, here's the video, it was the Grenada Subdivision.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2022)

Just skipping around in the video, that bridge at minute 51 looks.... uncomfortable....


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 14, 2022)

Ryan said:


> Just skipping around in the video, that bridge at minute 51 looks.... uncomfortable....


Yeah, there were several that surprised me. Not that they were going.... slow... to say the least.


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## Amtrak Train Productions (Mar 15, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Yeah, there were several that surprised me. Not that they were going.... slow... to say the least.


It's better than it looks now.


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## Metra Electric Rider (Mar 16, 2022)

Amtrak Train Productions said:


> It's better than it looks now.


That wasn't filmed all that long ago either!


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## George Harris (Mar 16, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Lots of causeway bridges - wood trestles and heavily overgrown verges. Runs right through some small towns too. It was the route in the north of the state, iirc. A lot of the bridges, after some googling, looked like they were either in terrible condition or on their last legs. It looked like they were almost temporary to start with.


They were not temporary. For the last 50 years or so many railroads have been replacing wood trestles with concrete and steel, but that does not mean the wood trestles they replaced were ever regarded as temporary. There have also been wood trestles built within the same time period. Wood trestles were standard for many years, and will handle heavy loads. Generally, a good creosoted pine trestle will last for over 50 years. Many of the originals from the late 1800's were replaced in kind, but with an additional pile per bent to handle current day loading, which by the way have been the standard design loadings for over 50 years. Some of these may near the end of their functional life, but they were not meant to be temporary. If you call 50 plus years temporary, they everything about a track or road is temporary. Things wear out.


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