# one-week points sale



## tricia (Oct 23, 2018)

For anyone who's interested, from an email I received this morning:

*"Don't miss out on up to 50% more points* *....* Surprise, we're having a Flash Sale... Don't miss out on the biggest bonus of the year—one week only. [ends Oct. 28]

30% bonus for 1,000 - 9,500 points

40% bonus for 10,000 - 14,500 points

50% bonus for 15,000 points and up


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## the_traveler (Oct 23, 2018)

Unless you need just a few points for your trip today, I personally do not see a good reason anymore to pre buy points. JMO.


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## cpotisch (Oct 23, 2018)

With the 50% bonus, is it correct to say that you're spending less than the points are worth? So if you bought 15,000 points, you would actually be saving money?


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## tricia (Oct 23, 2018)

I don't know.




But I bet someone here has a better sense of current point conversion ratios than I do.


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## jebr (Oct 23, 2018)

Buying points would be a bit cheaper than spending cash if the ratio is at the standard ratio (2.89 cents/point) for redemption and you're not eligible for discounts. (The sale puts the 50% off at 2.51 cents/point.) However, Acela redemptions take more points, and coach fares can only be redeemed at the Value (or Flexible, if Flexible is the only bucket left) fare level, not the Saver fare level. Also, there are certain times where Amtrak charges more points (thus reducing the value of each point) and some blackout dates still.

Thus, I wouldn't buy points at this point speculatively without a very specific redemption in mind, and you don't already have the points available to redeem. The savings isn't really there for speculative purchasing, especially given the caveats.


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## jebr (Oct 23, 2018)

In my calculations, I forgot that you don't earn AGR points on the travel, and that Amtrak purchases on the AGR card have higher earnings than a standard purchase (which points.com would be categorized as.)

With that in mind:

If you don't have the AGR card, you're paying an effective 2.65 cents/point.

With the AGR Platinum card, you're paying an effective 2.72 cents/point.

With the AGR World card, you're paying an effective 2.79 cents/point (assuming points purchases aren't considered "travel" for earning purposes; if they are, then it'd be the same as the Platinum card.)

All in all, I see very little point in speculatively purchasing points, and even buying points for a specific redemption should only be done if you're getting pretty much the full 2.89 cents/point of value (so you're not eligible for a discount, or the discount is only on rail fare and the sleeper upcharge is a very significant portion of the cost) and you're not worried about gaining status with that booking with AGR.


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## bratkinson (Oct 23, 2018)

Not having seen a 50% bonus in previous 'buy points' offers, I decided to do some quick calculations using MS Excel (see below)

As indicated by previous posters, the normal points per dollar 'cost' when purchasing tickets is 34.5 points dollar. Acela requires higher points cost, and during peak season times, points per dollar cost goes up as well as real dollar costs for tickets.

Unless you're at least buying points for 34.5 points per dollar, you're getting short changed. That's the 30% bonus level (which used to be the 'regular' buying rate a few years ago). The 50% bonus means you're getting a deal, especially during non-Acela and non-peak season times.

But do you really want to tie up (spend) your money more than 3-6 months in advance for a sort-of planned future use? It's like loaning Amtrak your money at zero percent interest. Anybody want to loan ME $942.50 at zero percent for 6 months?


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## cpotisch (Oct 23, 2018)

jebr said:


> In my calculations, I forgot that you don't earn AGR points on the travel, and that Amtrak purchases on the AGR card have higher earnings than a standard purchase (which points.com would be categorized as.)


You get 5% back when you book with points, right?


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## cpotisch (Oct 23, 2018)

bratkinson said:


> But do you really want to tie up (spend) your money more than 3-6 months in advance for a sort-of planned future use? It's like loaning Amtrak your money at zero percent interest. Anybody want to loan ME $942.50 at zero percent for 6 months?


Can't you buy the points and immediately after book travel? So how are you tying up your money 3-6 months in advance?


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## bratkinson (Oct 23, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> jebr said:
> 
> 
> > In my calculations, I forgot that you don't earn AGR points on the travel, and that Amtrak purchases on the AGR card have higher earnings than a standard purchase (which points.com would be categorized as.)
> ...


Yep! I think that started happening with AGR 2.0 was implemented, as I don't remember getting a 'rebate' when using points more than 2-3 years ago.



cpotisch said:


> bratkinson said:
> 
> 
> > But do you really want to tie up (spend) your money more than 3-6 months in advance for a sort-of planned future use? It's like loaning Amtrak your money at zero percent interest. Anybody want to loan ME $942.50 at zero percent for 6 months?
> ...


Yes, you can, but I give them 24 hours for the purchased points to 'post'. I suspect that AGR uses a 3rd party credit card processor company, and perhaps Amtrak.com does too! For a flat fee per transaction, it saves AGR and Amtrak.com a bunch of accounting headaches and ensures they get the money as the 3rd party is insured, etc.

And you have some trip planned where you need a bunch of points so you can take advantage of the 40 or 50% bonus...the only 'real' bonus here, 30% bonus is break even.


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## cpotisch (Oct 23, 2018)

bratkinson said:


> And you have some trip planned where you need a bunch of points so you can take advantage of the 40 or 50% bonus...the only 'real' bonus here, 30% bonus is break even.


That's exactly what I'm doing.


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## the_traveler (Oct 23, 2018)

The points are not bought from Amtrak or AGR, but from points.com instead.

The 5% rebate was also offered under AGR 1.0 - I do not remember when it began.


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## cpotisch (Oct 24, 2018)

We have the BoA AGR card now, and get 3 points per dollar on Amtrak purchases. However since you have to buy the points through points.com, will it not count as an "Amtrak purchase" and won't give us the 3 points per dollar? If that's the case, will it at least count as "travel related", and we'll be able to get the 2 points per dollar?


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## pennyk (Oct 24, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> We have the BoA AGR card now, and get 3 points per dollar on Amtrak purchases. However since you have to buy the points through points.com, will it not count as an "Amtrak purchase" and won't give us the 3 points per dollar? If that's the case, will it at least count as "travel related", and we'll be able to get the 2 points per dollar?


I do not believe you will get any extra points for purchases from points.com. However, while you are on the train, if you purchase anything from the cafe or dining car, it will show up as an Amtrak purchase and you will receive triple points.


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## the_traveler (Oct 24, 2018)

No you do not get extra points for the purchase.

Since you purchased from points.com, it counts as all other purchases earn 1 point per dollar. You will earn the normal 2 points per $ for the actual travel!


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## dlagrua (Oct 24, 2018)

If we consider the 50% bonus points allows us to buy points less than the redeeming value then it seems like a good deal. There is slight savings in buying them but that $1000 in points purchase may get you 1000 points on your AGR account. Now if you spent $1000 for a trip on Amtrak you get 3000 points plus the 10% rebate.

So does the slight savings on the cost of points justify buying points specifically for a trip?

The formula looks like this

Joe Bloe wants to go on an Amtrak trip and he uses Amtrak 50% sale points that he buys at .027 each but they are redeemed at ..029. If the trip costs 29,000 points he saved .002 per point and a total of $58. In doing so Joe gets credit card points on the point purchase but not on the trip. Now the trip that cost 29,000 points x .029 would cost $841cash vs $783 on the ticket booked with discounted points. Now if Joe had purchased the ticket he would have received 3 pts per dollar or 2523 bonus points at a value of .029. vs 1 point per dollar for buying the points or 783 points. Buying the ticket then gives you 1740 points more + the rebate. Conclusion; purchasing the ticket and getting the 3X points bonus is clearly the better buy. The 50% bonus sale is a ruse. Is my math correct?


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## cpotisch (Oct 24, 2018)

dlagrua said:


> If we consider the 50% bonus points allows us to buy points less than the redeeming value then it seems like a good deal. There is slight savings in buying them but that $1000 in points purchase may get you 1000 points on your AGR account. Now if you spent $1000 for a trip on Amtrak you get 3000 points plus the 10% rebate.
> 
> So does the slight savings on the cost of points justify buying points specifically for a trip?
> 
> ...


I just did the math and if you use the AGR card, under the 50% bonus, you get 40.788 points per dollar. So for $1000, you end up with 40,788 points - worth $1182 dollars. Once you use those points, you get 2,039 points back with the rebate. So for $1000, you get $1182 dollars of travel and end up with 2,039 points in your account.

Now let's say you just buy the ticket normally, with cash. If you spend $1000 for a ticket, you'll end up with 3000 points in your account. So you end up with 961 more points, but $182 less travel.

961 points has a redeeming value of $28. $182 has a pretty clear value of $182. So I think it's safe to say that buying points is the clear winner here.


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## jebr (Oct 24, 2018)

However, it's worth noting that the $1182 in travel value is likely non-discounted, non-peak, and non-Acela. Any of those factors would make it so you get less value for your points redemption. For example, if a senior discount would cause the cash fare to drop to $1075 (for example) for that same 40,788 points. (Or, if you're traveling coach, a saver fare may be significantly cheaper.)

I definitely wouldn't buy the points unless you have a particular redemption in mind and you know the math works out; there's too many variables otherwise for the points purchase to be a reliable deal, especially given that you have to outlay the cash right now instead of waiting until you know you're wanting to take a particular trip.


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## bratkinson (Oct 28, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I just did the math and if you use the AGR card, under the 50% bonus, you get 40.788 points per dollar. So for $1000, you end up with 40,788 points - worth $1182 dollars. Once you use those points, you get 2,039 points back with the rebate. So for $1000, you get $1182 dollars of travel and end up with 2,039 points in your account.
> 
> Now let's say you just buy the ticket normally, with cash. If you spend $1000 for a ticket, you'll end up with 3000 points in your account. So you end up with 961 more points, but $182 less travel.
> 
> 961 points has a redeeming value of $28. $182 has a pretty clear value of $182. So I think it's safe to say that buying points is the clear winner here.



I have to respectfully disagree with you, cpotisch, and say 'it depends'.

A couple days ago, I had to come up with a tad over 4K points to get a 30774 point ticket. I'd have to look at my credit card account to remember how much I paid. It was about $125 as I recall.

So, I'll just use your $1000 example.

Assume I buy the $1000 worth of points...40778 points and use that to buy a 40778 point trip.

Now what do I get, all together?

1 trip,

1,000 points from using the AGR credit card (like other respondents in this thread, I don't think you get the extra 2,000 points from the CC when buying points)

5% point rebate (2,039 points).

Note: actually taking the trip on points -earns- zero points

Total points in the bank: 3,039

On the other hand, suppose I simply bought a ticket for $1,500 ($1,000 + 50% bonus points value). NOW what do I get?

1 trip,

4,500 points from the credit card purchase

3,000 MORE points when I take the trip (they're TQP points, too!)

3,000 MORE points if the trip coincides with 'double days'

750/1500/3000 MORE points if you've reached AGR Select, Plus, or Executive status

Total Points in the bank: 7,500-13,500

So, other than getting the 2039 point rebate plus $1000 CC points when buying with points, what else do you 'end up with'? Paying the $1500 gets lightens my wallet by and extra $500, but I get significantly more points for future travel, especially if double days and AGR bonus points for status! This is a loser deal because of the extra $500 paid.

But consider only the 30% bonus level of points purchase... Here's the same calculations:

$546.65 buys 14,500 + 5,800 = 20,300 points (ie, 34.5 points per dollar, the 'standard' conversion rate)

You receive

1 trip,

547 points from the credit card purchase,

1,105 point 5% 'rebate'.

Total Points in the bank: 1,752.

Paying $546.65 cash gets: (same as 20,300 points)

1 trip,

1,640 points from the credit card purchase

1,093 MORE points when I take the trip (they're TQP points, too!)

1,093 MORE points if the trip coincides with 'double days'

273/547/1093 MORE points if you've reached AGR Select, Plus, or Executive status

Total Points in the bank: 2,733-4,919

This comes out a winner as I end up spending the same money but get more points in the end, even without double days or AGR status.

How many people can come up with $1000 to 'buy' a trip on points? Is it worth it to get the 50% bonus points but wait another 6-12 months or longer to earn enough other points to get the trip you want on points? That's a personal choice.

For me, I'd rather have to buy a 'handful' of points at whatever price to get the ticket I want while it's still priced at the lowest bucket or one step higher. That way, my trip is essentially free from CC use as well as travel and other points-earning opportunities, except for the $125 or so I just paid to buy some points to get the ticket. I'm a happy camper.


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## Mr2nr (Nov 1, 2018)

OK so I bought the points for my first trip on Amtrak in 10 years. I saved roughly 150$ but what a hassle. I bought the bonus points from Amtrak rewards last week. I thought everything was taken care of but the stupid 72 hour policy pretty much guarantees chaos and unsatisfied customers when the Bank denies the transaction because they only lift limits for 48 hours. So ya that's definitely a problem with there system and most Credit Card companies. I finally got hold of a supervisor and she pretty much overrode everything and just said to watch my CC statement lol. I mean why does it take 72 hours to complete a transaction??!?!!  I understand its a third party but hell 72 hours!!! How I did it was buying two one way tickets using me and my wife's accounts. Since you can only get 30,000 points max. per account.


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## bratkinson (Nov 1, 2018)

Mr2nr said:


> OK so I bought the points for my first trip on Amtrak in 10 years. I saved roughly 150$ but what a hassle. I bought the bonus points from Amtrak rewards last week. I thought everything was taken care of but the stupid 72 hour policy pretty much guarantees chaos and unsatisfied customers when the Bank denies the transaction because they only lift limits for 48 hours. So ya that's definitely a problem with there system and most Credit Card companies. I finally got hold of a supervisor and she pretty much overrode everything and just said to watch my CC statement lol. I mean why does it take 72 hours to complete a transaction??!?!!  I understand its a third party but hell 72 hours!!! How I did it was buying two one way tickets using me and my wife's accounts. Since you can only get 30,000 points max. per account.


Perhaps your CC was too close the the max limit or even over slightly when you bought the points?  I used my Amtrak CC when I bought the points last week and it went through almost immediately.  I checked the AGR web site 30 minutes later and the purchased points where there!

Perhaps it's time for a different CC if the one you have is such a hassle?


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