# Park Avenue Tunnels



## Andrew (Sep 8, 2015)

Regarding Metro North, why doesn't the MTA put in direct track fixation within the Park Avenue tunnels, instead of the current tracks resting on ballast?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 8, 2015)

no real advantage to it , and current setup in tunnel requires very little track maintenance , ballast, azobe ties and welded rail on pandroll clips.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 9, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> no real advantage to it , and current setup in tunnel requires very little track maintenance , ballast, azobe ties and welded rail on pandroll clips.


How long is this segment of track supposed to last--with the very frequent train traffic on it?

What are the interior width and height dimensions of the Park Avenue Tunnels?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 10, 2015)

Azobe ties can last as long as 100 years , and in tunnel with very little water even longer.

center tunnel is about 24 foot wide, height restriction for tunnel and GCT is 14 feet 6 inches outside tracks are little over 12 feet wide but with significant S curve's at north end.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 11, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> Azobe ties can last as long as 100 years , and in tunnel with very little water even longer.
> 
> center tunnel is about 24 foot wide, height restriction for tunnel and GCT is 14 feet 6 inches outside tracks are little over 12 feet wide but with significant S curve's at north end.


Thanks.

But, what is the height of the tunnels from top of rail?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 14, 2015)

a wee bit over 14' 6" the FL-9's use to scrape the roof until track was lowered a few inches.

the height is not universal as park avenue tunnel was build in several stages.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 20, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> a wee bit over 14' 6" the FL-9's use to scrape the roof until track was lowered a few inches.
> 
> the height is not universal as park avenue tunnel was build in several stages.


Thus, I wonder what the specifications would have to be for future double decker coaches and dual mode locomotives because of the tunnel restrictions.

I wonder if a future Dual-Mode would need an angled roof to cope with the higher coaches?


----------



## jis (Sep 20, 2015)

They could be shaped exactly like the P32ACDMs. I suspect even the Chargers would only require minimal modification if any.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 21, 2015)

jis said:


> They could be shaped exactly like the P32ACDMs. I suspect even the Chargers would only require minimal modification if any.


Coaches are about 15 feet longer than the dual mode locomotives.

How does this impact how the trains would have to navigate the turns at the northern section of the tunnels?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 21, 2015)

there would not be restrictions , cause any car would be based on NJT multilevel, and the cornering is fixed by modified corners at ends of car .

the NJCT multilevel is same height as P32acdm, and while mention of siemens chargers are made, look up their height a little over 12 feet or 2 foot lower than a P32acdm.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 22, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> there would not be restrictions , cause any car would be based on NJT multilevel, and the cornering is fixed by modified corners at ends of car .
> 
> the NJCT multilevel is same height as P32acdm, and while mention of siemens chargers are made, look up their height a little over 12 feet or 2 foot lower than a P32acdm.


I thought that MLV's are an inch and a half taller than P32 ACDM.


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 22, 2015)

don't think, research, both are 14 feet 6 inches.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 23, 2015)

Slab track was installed on the Seven Subway Extension, and will be installed for Phase 1 of the Second Avenue Subway.

Perhaps Metro North should really consider Slab track for the Park Avenue Tunnels.

Also, what is the decibel level on the platforms at Grand Central Terminal?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 23, 2015)

why would they get slab track for track, redone less than 20 years ago, and good for another 80 years????

that is pissing away money, MTA really does not have.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 24, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> why would they get slab track for track, redone less than 20 years ago, and good for another 80 years????
> 
> that is pissing away money, MTA really does not have.


Are you saying that new tracks were put in the Park Avenue Tunnels during the 1990's, and that they are in good condition?


----------



## jis (Sep 24, 2015)

That is what he just said


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 24, 2015)

the track was lowered to lowest possible point without rerouting utilities and mass transit tunnels, new Azobe ties were used and 132 lbs welded rail installed, the work was done in 1991/1992.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 25, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> the track was lowered to lowest possible point without rerouting utilities and mass transit tunnels, new Azobe ties were used and 132 lbs welded rail installed, the work was done in 1991/1992.


Thanks for the information.

So long how long, then, can we expect these track components to last? If they were installed in 1991 and 1992, then how long will they likely last?


----------



## Eric S (Sep 25, 2015)

Andrew said:


> If they were installed in 1991 and 1992, then when were they installed?


Um, didn't you answer your own question there?


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 26, 2015)

hmm track designed for 100 year life and installed in 1991/92 , really Andrew did you get basic math ?


----------



## Andrew (Sep 26, 2015)

Dutchrailnut said:


> hmm track designed for 100 year life and installed in 1991/92 , really Andrew did you get basic math ?


I wonder if this track life-span will get shortened as Metro North eventually goes to heavier trains--through double decker coaches-- on it's Hudson Line, etc.


----------



## Dutchrailnut (Sep 26, 2015)

no 132 pound rail is good for much heavier freight cars so stop wondering and go do math homework.


----------



## Andrew (Sep 29, 2015)

Would the MTA likely order double decker coaches in the 2015--2019 capital plan or the 2020 through 2024 capital plan?


----------

