# COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Pandemic: Amtrak-related Discussion



## pianocat

I’m booked and ready to go for mid-March , but depending on your choice of news outlets, you’d think we all need to become survivalists and soon. [No offense to survivalists!] There are 2 schools of thought on the whole thing, and I guess I’m looking for input from others who might be in same boat - wondering if close quarter travel is wise in the near future. I tend to see the glass as half full, and my eye is on the prize of seeing my daughters for this trip, so I’m primed to go no matter what. However. I have asthma pretty bad, am in that upper age range - [over 60] and guess I’m just looking for some feedback about how anyone else might be seeing this. So many unknowns, and that’s part of the problem. I’m monitoring the CDC updates, and won’t change my plans until/if unnecessary travel is advised. Anyone else concerned about this? I have a chronic cough, part of the asthma condition, and hope I don’t become the pariah of the SWC! I probably should be more concerned about the trip back in that Petrie dish of an airplane, than the train where I can pretty much isolate myself as much as i want. It’s a go for now.


MODERATOR NOTE: currently, there are 3 threads relating to the Coronavirus. This thread, one for food service-specific discussion: COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Pandemic: Amtrak Food Service Discussion
and one in the AU Lounge for broader discussion: https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/covid-19-coronavirus-pandemic-general-discussion.76916/

Please use the appropriate thread for your discussion.


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## Just-Thinking-51

Enjoy your trip. Wash your hands frequently. Avoid touch your face, mouth, nose. Carry a small alcohol hand sanitizers, Amtrak bathroom fixtures are a pain. Use a paper towel when touch the flush buttons, door handles.

This bug is easy to catch, but not very deadly. It’s not time to panic, it time to think, and plan.

Family care plan.
Work at home plan.
Alternative Children’s care.
Alternative Pet care plan.

Extra supplies, to avoid going shopping.
Your favorite sick foods. Such as soup, and drinks to keep yourself hydrated.
Pet foods, and cat litter.

If your ready for a zombie outbreak your ready for a earthquake, tornado, hurricane, or a flu bug like Coronavirus it’s all the same.

Enjoy your trip, don’t panic.


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## Just-Thinking-51

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...uide-how-to-prepare-your-home-for-coronavirus

A story from NPR about preparedness.


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## Asher

I'm in the same situation, trip booked and waiting to see if it's going to happen. Last year at this time my trip was canceled because of an injury to a traveling mate, holding my breath about this upcoming trip the last of April. Pretty hard to feel confident the way this virus is spreading.


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## Qapla

We are planning to take our trip in July.

Last year we had to cancel because of Hurricane Dorian - hope we can make it this time ... same trip we planned last year.


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## jis

What will happen by July is anyone’s guess at this time. Worst case it appears to be similar to the Flu, except with what currently appears to be about a 2%-3% fatality rate (this might go down over time) instead of 0.2%. The fatalities are also disproportionately among the elderly and infirm, similar to the Flu. Also, no vaccine yet. Also, the exact vectors of infection are not known for this variant. While washing hands is good, that may or may not be the primary way or even a major way that it is transmitted.

Meanwhile, the CDC reported the first case in the US of local transmission, in California. At the end of the day, it is local transmission which would drive any significant spread of the disease in the US. Until this case, no known cases of local transmission existed in the US.


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## pennyk

I am watching also since I have planned trips in March and May.


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## wwchi

I take Amtrak twice a week and have continued to do so. Like others have said, wash your hands a lot, carry hand sanitizer, if you use the restrooms or anything use a towel to touch the handles, etc. Not panicked yet, but if it spreads I may reconsider taking Amtrak for the short term...for now I'm not staying away. Also be careful in the train stations! All the same routine!


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## Devil's Advocate

According to a recent Ted Talk it turns out that viruses are even smaller than the smallest elephant and _that_ is how they're able to sneak up on your mucus membranes.


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## west point

Some thoughts.
1. Airline travel you are in closer contact. Airplane now recycle more air than before. Now am not familiar enough with current aircraft to know if that can be changed but on ones am familiar with can turn on more air conditioning packs to force more air overboard.
2. How much recycling of RR cars now occurs in each model ?
3. You are somewhat more separated from other in coach and much more in sleepers.
4. Not deadly? That is very hard to quantify at this time. We cannot trust the China stats as I see it. But they are reporting so many cases with a death rate of about 1 in 38 victims. we need more info from other countries that can be trusted. But which countries can we trust ?
5. This virus might be more virulent to certain races. Chinese, Japanese, Indian, middle, east, east European, African, etc. It is too soon to know ?. Maybe some will be more resistant ? . 
6. Age groups ? Spanish flue started out 20 - 45 because their antibodies went wild with that group. read Wiki.
7. How long after recovery is someone still a carrier?. Can be from maybe a week to lifetime ? The later can be a real gorilla . Look at aids.

EDIT: 8. We might even have a partial shutdown of one or more types of transportation ?


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## Rasputin

I wonder if we are going to see meetings and conventions cancelled or postponed


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## Siegmund

Rasputin said:


> I wonder if we are going to see meetings and conventions cancelled or postponed



I have already gotten notices about a couple of professional gatherings being postponed (mostly international events.)

The college where I work is deciding today whether to cancel the spring study-abroad experience in Venice (and probably will.)


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## flitcraft

I have upcoming LD trips in March and April, and currently have no plans to cancel. Both are in sleepers, which expose passengers to relatively few people--certainly less than a trip to the supermarket. I might be inclined to have meals in the rooms, though, to further minimize contact. So, good news for tips for SCA's, not so much for dining room staff.

Of course, things can change rapidly. Japan just cancelled all primary and secondary schools for the next couple of months with no warning at all. Could Amtrak cancel my trips? Sure, that's possible...but there's less risk there than in local public transit by a huge factor.


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## Rasputin

Siegmund said:


> I have already gotten notices about a couple of professional gatherings being postponed (mostly international events.)



I have a meeting scheduled in Colorado in May. Part of the meeting includes a tour of the Air Force Academy. I wonder if either will take place.


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## AmtrakBlue

Rasputin said:


> I wonder if we are going to see meetings and conventions cancelled or postponed



My employer has restricted international business travel to only critical needs and those have to be approved.

I read today that Facebook has cancelled its developers conference.


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## Cho Cho Charlie

AmtrakBlue said:


> My employer has restricted international business travel to only critical needs and those have to be approved.



My employer already recalled every employee traveling in Asia, and ordered them to stay at home (work from home) for at least a week upon their return.


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## TexasTravel

Greetings from Texas! I’m new to the Forum and still trying to navigate myself around. For months I have reading your posts and decided I would try to dive in. Sadly, as I write the market is down another 800 points and many corporations, large and small, are making contingency plans for dealing with a widespread outbreak of the Coronavirus. Meanwhile the CDC is preparing us for some tough choices, including travel restrictions. So I was wondering if Amtrak is 1) preparing plans 2) considering what routes might be kept open 3)or how to deal with the possibility of a shut down.
I also if they have already seen any changes in ridership. Hopefully this will all go away soon . . .but who knows?
TexasTravel

MODERATOR NOTE: This comment was posted to a new thread that was merged into one of the existing Coronavirus threads.


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## jis

My employer is keeping close tabs on Elephants and acting depending on how they behave. 

Of course, depending on where one is coming from, one may not be allowed to enter a country based on their citizenship and residency status already. Non-resident Visas have been outright canceled and Visa on Arrival and E-Visas have been denied by many countries for those who have traveled in certain other countries in the last 14 days. And the list of countries keep getting updated every day, so it is at best a crap shoot.


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## jis

There are already two threads full of quite useful information on this subject:

https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/th...aveling-on-amtrak-elephant-in-the-room.77093/

https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/th...-in-wuhan-china-and-is-spreading.76916/page-2

There is hardly a need for a third thread on the same subject.


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## Barb Stout

However, I have not read about any plans by Amtrak to mitigate the situation in those other 2 threads. Could be that there hadn't been any thus far since it was just yesterday (or the day before?) when news came about the 1st community-acquired case (in Sacramento).


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## Barb Stout

In another thread on Amtrak's new cancel and change fees/policies, someone posted a link to an article about JetBlue. From that link, "Due to evolving coronavirus concerns, we are suspending change and cancel fees for all new flight bookings made between February 27, 2020 and March 11, 2020 for travel through June 1, 2020."


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## Suze10860

Not sure if I'm naive or simply not well informed on all the facts. Speaking strictly about travel in the USA (especially in a car or on a train) - I wouldn't think for even a second about changing plans. (We currently have a roundtrip New York to Chicago LSL sleeper booked for April.) Now flying over to Asia would be another story of course.

For the record I'm 60 years old and work in a kindergarten classroom. I take what I consider practical precautions, but I've yet to ever get a flu shot. I don't think I've ever had the flu in my life. Maybe I'm just a risk-taker. And a lucky one at that.

Personally I blame an awful lot of the worry on the ridiculous 24/7 news cycles that we have to deal with. I'm not talking about people who have pre-existing health conditions or older folks. I'm talking about the young healthy ones who still feel compelled to go out and buy a mask. I think the constant barrage of news stories helps build the hype. Sort of the same thing as grocery stores being wiped clean of milk and bread because the news keeps ranting on about an impending blizzard - which most of the time never materializes! Again, just my opinion. This is in no way a criticism of anyone who would decide to change their plans. We're all responsible for ourselves and can make our own decisions.


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## jis

We are at present far far away from anything that requires any drastic change of plans for domestic travel in the US.

For international travel, one is well covered by following the advice of the CDC and Dept of Health and Human Services. But it is all a fast changing situation.

Meanwhile, if one has not gotten their Flu shots yet, this may be a good time to do so. It is better to have to deal with a single infection instead of multiple opportunistic ones if it comes to that.


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## Devil's Advocate

In a rational culture masks would be worn by sick people rather than healthy people, contagion reporting would be compulsory rather than discretionary, and employees who handle food or perform other risky functions would be granted government mandated sick days.


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## Skyline

flitcraft said:


> I have upcoming LD trips in March and April, and currently have no plans to cancel. Both are in sleepers, which expose passengers to relatively few people--certainly less than a trip to the supermarket. I might be inclined to have meals in the rooms, though, to further minimize contact. So, good news for tips for SCA's, not so much for dining room staff.
> 
> Of course, things can change rapidly. Japan just cancelled all primary and secondary schools for the next couple of months with no warning at all. Could Amtrak cancel my trips? Sure, that's possible...but there's less risk there than in local public transit by a huge factor.





Sleepers are better than coach travel for this issue, but you are assuming your room was thoroughly sterilized since the last occupancy. I'm not sure that's the case during hectic turnarounds. Almost impossible when a room is vacated mid-route.


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## fillyjonk

I have a trip in March (in a sleeper, but I get on mid-route) and I don't even know. My mom, who I am going to see, is in her early 80s. I assume if *I* got the virus, I'd probably recover, but given her age, I am not so sure she would. I don't want to carry it to her.

Has there been ANY research definitively showing if any kind of sterilizer wipes help? I would not be averse to cleaning the hard surfaces in my roomette MYSELF but I'm not gonna lug a tub of wipes along if they do nothing against viruses. I know deactivating a virus (which is technically not alive) is harder than killing a bacterium in many cases. 

I am a biologist but I am an ecologist. I generally don't worry about "ambient" bacteria because 90% of them are harmless to humans, but viruses freak me out a little. 

I still might cancel my trip, I don't know. Next time I could make it up would be May, after the semester ends. 

The thing for me: I have a really hard time with uncertainty and knowing if I am doing the "right" thing. Add on the overlay of still mourning my dad and (a) wanting to spend as much time as I have left possible with my mom and (b) worrying about "what if I pick up the virus and infect her?"


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## Rasputin

Skyline said:


> Sleepers are better than coach travel for this issue, but you are assuming your room was thoroughly sterilized the last occupancy. I'm not sure that's the case during hectic turnarounds. Almost impossible when a room is vacated mid-route.


Sometimes just before we detrain, I will take a flashlight and look under the seats in our roomette to be sure we haven't forgotten something. When you look under the seat with a flashlight, the sight is not encouraging.

Also when going into our viewliner roomette at the start of a trip I have found clothing in the overhead storage space left by a previous occupant. That is not encouraging either (well especially when it doesn't fit).

I doubt that "thoroughly sterilized" is in the Amtrak vocabulary.


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## Sauve850

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...uide-how-to-prepare-your-home-for-coronavirus
> 
> A story from NPR about preparedness.





Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Enjoy your trip. Wash your hands frequently. Avoid touch your face, mouth, nose. Carry a small alcohol hand sanitizers, Amtrak bathroom fixtures are a pain. Use a paper towel when touch the flush buttons, door handles.
> 
> This bug is easy to catch, but not very deadly. It’s not time to panic, it time to think, and plan.
> 
> Family care plan.
> Work at home plan.
> Alternative Children’s care.
> Alternative Pet care plan.
> 
> Extra supplies, to avoid going shopping.
> Your favorite sick foods. Such as soup, and drinks to keep yourself hydrated.
> Pet foods, and cat litter.
> 
> If your ready for a zombie outbreak your ready for a earthquake, tornado, hurricane, or a flu bug like Coronavirus it’s all the same.
> 
> Enjoy your trip, don’t panic.



I have a cruise at the end of April, air travel in the US end of June and Amtrak early September. I will simply evaluate as needed. I have cancel for any reason travel insurance which at least covers 75% of my costs. 

As far as home supplies the basic 14 days doesnt get it done at all. If your area has an outbreak and you have 14 days of food etc then what? The outbreak most likely will be much greater after that period and off to the store we all go. Ugh. Im cautiously optimistic however that we will get thru this. Ive been thru an earthquake, tornadoes and 5 hurricanes so im decent at long term prep.

Hoping everyone gets to do their train trips!


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## Ziv

Venice cancelled this year's Carnival, which is a huge deal for Venice. Italy is taking this seriously. Here is hoping they get a handle on it soon. 



Siegmund said:


> I have already gotten notices about a couple of professional gatherings being postponed (mostly international events.)
> 
> The college where I work is deciding today whether to cancel the spring study-abroad experience in Venice (and probably will.)


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## flitcraft

Cruises are probably the best reason to get 'cancel for any reason' insurance, since historically they've been much tighter than airlines in allowing refunds due to instability, safety concerns, etc. Though, the Diamond Princess situation must be causing some concerns for the cruise companies--if someone tried to cancel, but was denied, and then ended up on one of the quarantined cruiseships where eventually many of the passengers were infected, I can see a PR nightmare for the cruiseline, not to mention the possibility of legal action. That's one of those situations where a tight cancellation policy could literally become a "bet the company" policy. 

Airlines have thus far been more reasonable--Cathay Pacific was allowing no-fee cancellation and full refunds for longhaul flights even before many of the Chinese connecting flights were cancelled. The PR hit that airlines take for being hard-nosed isn't worth it--just ask United Airlines! 

Amtrak hasn't had to deal with this kind of situation before--but my guess would be that they'd end up more like the airlines than the cruiselines. Screwing over passengers and/or insisting that they be potentially exposed to a deadly virus is the kind of Amtrak decision that would go viral in an instant, pun intended, and Congress is already primed to take Amtrak's management on.


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## west point

If the virus gets bad and you MUST travel on public transportation advise you carry a bottle of spray disinfectant


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## flitcraft

How will a bottle of spray disinfectant help? The people breathing, talking, coughing, and sneezing won't be affected in the least, though they are the primary vector of transmission. You might consider bringing a pack of those Clorox disinfectant wipes to wipe the handrail or straps if you are standing, and try to avoid touching other surfaces to the extent possible. But public transit cannot be made germ-free, unfortunately.


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## flitcraft

Incidentally, for years I have traveled with a pack of Clorox wipes, and before I sit in a plane seat, I wipe the tray table, the seat belt--especially the buckle--and the armrests by my seat. I'm probably too much of a germophobe, but given how many long flights I have to take, it gives me comfort to know that I'm reducing the odds of catching something.


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## pianocat

flitcraft said:


> Incidentally, for years I have traveled with a pack of Clorox wipes, and before I sit in a plane seat, I wipe the tray table, the seat belt--especially the buckle--and the armrests by my seat. I'm probably too much of a germophobe, but given how many long flights I have to take, it gives me comfort to know that I'm reducing the odds of catching something.



Oh, trust me I have a ton of antiseptic wipes at the ready for ALL surfaces. I had no idea this topic was repeated in other places, forgive my ignorance as I only re-joined the group a few days ago. I suppose all info is good info, though. 
Here’s the way I see it tonight...and of course this could change as things change in this country [USA], but I will keep the trip. The problem seems to be that accurate test kits aren’t widely available in this country, like South Korea. So, of course, we may have a helluva lot more cases than we realize here in our own back yards. Is there a precedent for Amtrak granting refunds to pax who might be exposed to a pandemic by riding their trains? Or is this something so new to them that they just don’t know how to handle it? At very min I know I can modify my trip. And please note, I’m not saying a pandemic is coming. For my own plans, I’m trying to cover all my bases. And to the people who think I’m being too dramatic - please know, this is NOT kid’s play. It’s real, and it’s here and we have to deal with it. Don’t listen to tweets, listen to to CDC.Gov.


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## west point

We all need to at least plan for the worse and hope for the best. This virus will probably be somewhere between those two end zones


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## chakk

Suze10860 said:


> Not sure if I'm naive or simply not well informed on all the facts. Speaking strictly about travel in the USA (especially in a car or on a train) - I wouldn't think for even a second about changing plans. (We currently have a roundtrip New York to Chicago LSL sleeper booked for April.) Now flying over to Asia would be another story of course.
> 
> For the record I'm 60 years old and work in a kindergarten classroom. I take what I consider practical precautions, but I've yet to ever get a flu shot. I don't think I've ever had the flu in my life. Maybe I'm just a risk-taker. And a lucky one at that.
> 
> Personally I blame an awful lot of the worry on the ridiculous 24/7 news cycles that we have to deal with. I'm not talking about people who have pre-existing health conditions or older folks. I'm talking about the young healthy ones who still feel compelled to go out and buy a mask. I think the constant barrage of news stories helps build the hype. Sort of the same thing as grocery stores being wiped clean of milk and bread because the news keeps ranting on about an impending blizzard - which most of the time never materializes! Again, just my opinion. This is in no way a criticism of anyone who would decide to change their plans. We're all responsible for ourselves and can make our own decisions.



60 years old and no flu shot? You are taking a very big risk here in the USA! And even with a flu shot you still could get flu, but most likely with reduced symptoms. Don't risk it.


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## Anderson

So, here's what I understand:
Please understand that these things often overlap, but...

If you are healthy and under about 60-70, the case-fatality rate is about 0.2-0.4% (1 in 500 to 1 in 250). Most cases are basically a bad cold. _However_, this spikes if you're over that age or have any of a handful of conditions that make you susceptible. I remember that coronary disease and diabetes are on the list; I forget what else might be there. In those various cases, the case-fatality rate gets up to like 6-8%...but I also suspect that age is partly due to relative prevalence of those conditions among older people.

TL;DR: Treat like the flu, but with extra caution. At this point, it's probably gonna go around.


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## peteypablo

I think we'll know within a month or two what we're dealing with. They're trying to contain it, but my bet is they're eventually going to have to abandon that strategy and adopt a treat and eventually vaccinate strategy. In the meantime, the greatest risk for healthy people is getting caught up in some kind of blockade - such as a cruise ship that is not welcome in any port because a crew member has a fever - or carrying the virus unawares to a compromised person.

That's the way I'm evaluating it now. I'm in a part of Italy that is so far free of the virus, and I'm staying put, but I think I'd go ahead with plans for a train trip elsewhere in Italy if I had them. I probably wouldn't book a cruise.


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## Ziv

I am 57 and have never had a flu shot. But on the flip side of the coin, I haven't had the flu since I was 15 or 16. Everybody is different. I am considering getting a flu shot every year once I hit 60 but I am not sure it would be all that useful.


chakk said:


> 60 years old and no flu shot? You are taking a very big risk here in the USA! And even with a flu shot you still could get flu, but most likely with reduced symptoms. Don't risk it.


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## RichieRich

Ziv said:


> I am 57 and have never had a flu shot. But on the flip side of the coin, I haven't had the flu since I was 15 or 16. Everybody is different. I am considering getting a flu shot every year once I hit 60 but I am not sure it would be all that useful.


72 and never had a flu shot, however, everyone I know who did get the shot - got sick!!! Have no plans to change my monthly AT trips.


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## MARC Rider

flitcraft said:


> How will a bottle of spray disinfectant help? The people breathing, talking, coughing, and sneezing won't be affected in the least, though they are the primary vector of transmission. You might consider bringing a pack of those Clorox disinfectant wipes to wipe the handrail or straps if you are standing, and try to avoid touching other surfaces to the extent possible. But public transit cannot be made germ-free, unfortunately.


By the way, neither can traveling in a private car. If you're driving for any distance, you are going to have to stop to eat and use the rest room, both possible places where you can catch something.


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## jis

Depending on how long the virus survives suspended in air, one may be feeling more secure than one should while traveling in Sleeper. Afterall the same air is circulated in the entire car. Rooms in Sleepers do not have individual isolated air supply.


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## Devil's Advocate

Antiseptic sprays and wipes are mainly effective on hard nonporous surfaces. They won't be able to decontaminate cloth seats or carpeted walls such as those found on Amtrak.



RichieRich said:


> 72 and never had a flu shot, however, everyone I know who did get the shot - got sick!!! Have no plans to change my monthly AT trips.


Getting an influenza shot doesn't actually make you sick, but they can trigger an immune response that feels similar to an infection.


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## Barb Stout

wwchi said:


> I take Amtrak twice a week and have continued to do so. Like others have said, wash your hands a lot, carry hand sanitizer, if you use the restrooms or anything use a towel to touch the handles, etc. Not panicked yet, but if it spreads I may reconsider taking Amtrak for the short term...for now I'm not staying away. Also be careful in the train stations! All the same routine!


Also, when drying your hands, use paper towels instead of the air hand dryers. Studies have shown that the hand drying air blowers aerolize microbes. Here are 2 of the studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25237036 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29439992
Neither of these 2 enumerated viruses, but viruses are often associated with cells and thus the pattern could be similar.


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## tricia

Some advice about help from herbs: During cold-and-flu season, many people routinely take elderberry extract to bolster the body's ability to deal with upper-respiratory infection, and year-round astragalus is a general-purpose immune booster. Echinacea revs up immune response but is only effective taken for a few days at a time--best used for a day or two when you think you've been exposed to infection. Any of these are worth trying as protection against coronavirus (IMHO), since they're not pathogen-specific but rather support the body's response to infection.


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## Railroad Bill

We have a long distance Amtrak set of trips planned for late May. As of this date we have not planned to cancel. We both have heart issues that set up a different set of circumstances for travel. We have cancelled our cruise scheduled for May because we do not want to become part of a quarantined ship, whether we are sick or not. I would hope that Amtrak will adjust its cancellation policy if things get considerably worse. 

We get our flu shots each year and have avoided major flu-like illnesses for many years. As a former school administrator, I encouraged our staff to get the flu shots to protect themselves and the students they are responsible for in their classrooms. 

But on a train, you are always at the mercy of all the different people who travel, some sick and coughing and sneezing in the diner and lounge. As mom always said, "eat your veggies, get plenty of rest, and drink lots of water". Good advice for all.


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## Chey

Late 60s, I get a flu shot almost every year. I only got flu once after getting the shot, which did NOT sicken me - it was a year that they guessed the wrong flu strain and the shot wasn't very effective. But being the age I am, having diabetes, I don't count on luck.

I'm taking a points trip in May and hearing the corona virus may get decimated by warm weather. No plans to cancel so far.


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## Maglev

I got sick on our last vacation (I did get a flu shot). My wife said I don't wash my hands enough and touch my face too much. On the last day of our eight in Hawaii, I was coughing with a fever and chills, and could not get out of bed. It rained that day (only) anyway. The next day, we flew to Los Angeles, and then got on the _Coast Starlight _to Seattle_. _ I was still not feeling well, but was fine with traveling. However, I probably spread some unwelcome germs.


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## Suze10860

chakk said:


> 60 years old and no flu shot? You are taking a very big risk here in the USA! And even with a flu shot you still could get flu, but most likely with reduced symptoms. Don't risk it.



Gonna have to be honest, I have no intention of starting with flu shots unless something pretty drastic happens with my health.

First, and what I think is most important, I am the exact opposite of a germaphobe. I avoid those antibacterial hand sanitizers like the plague! Personally, I think they do more harm than good in the long run.

I wash my hands as often as I deem necessary. But even working in a kindergarten classroom with 5 and 6 year olds who simply cannot keep their fingers out of their mouths or their noses, I'm not crazy about it.

Maybe I'm just super lucky, but I feel that I've spent my entire life building up my own immunity, and so far it's worked quite well. And I raised my 2 now-grown children to also NOT be germaphobes and they're quite healthy as well.

Again, if the day comes when my immune system somehow becomes compromised, or maybe in another 10 or 15 years when I'm 70 or 75, I'll consider the flu shot, but for now I'm very comfortable not getting it.


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## Bob Dylan

Suze10860 said:


> Gonna have to be honest, I have no intention of starting with flu shots unless something pretty drastic happens with my health.
> 
> First, and what I think is most important, I am the exact opposite of a germaphobe. I avoid those antibacterial hand sanitizers like the plague! Personally, I think they do more harm than good in the long run.
> 
> I wash my hands as often as I deem necessary. But even working in a kindergarten classroom with 5 and 6 year olds who simply cannot keep their fingers out of their mouths or their noses, I'm not crazy about it.
> 
> Maybe I'm just super lucky, but I feel that I've spent my entire life building up my own immunity, and so far it's worked quite well. And I raised my 2 now-grown children to also NOT be germaphobes and they're quite healthy as well.
> 
> Again, if the day comes when my immune system somehow becomes compromised, or maybe in another 10 or 15 years when I'm 70 or 75, I'll consider the flu shot, but for now I'm very comfortable not getting it.


When you do reach Senior Status your Immune System will be weakened and you'll want the Flu and Pnuemonia Shots, Trust me!!!( Just turned 76)


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## Suze10860

Bob Dylan said:


> When you do reach Senior Status your Immune System will be weakened and you'll want the Flu and Phnuemonia Shots, Trust me!!!( Just turned 76)



Oh, I do trust you. I'll definitely think about it differently when I'm a bit older.

For now, I'm an exceedingly healthy and fit 60 year old. AARP might consider me a "senior" but I don't!

Also, I see my primary care doctor 2X a year (keeping my cholesterol and blood pressure in check) and until such time as he tells me I should be getting the shots, I'll stick with my decision. He asks me about them when I go, but is comfortable with the fact that I don't want them at this time. He too has mentioned that as I get older, our discussions will become more serious.


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## Qapla

My doctor brought up the Flu Shot the first time I went to him .... now that I am older, he rather insists on the shot. Still my decision, but have not had any serious reaction to the shot.

Also, one of the things he reminded me of ... often people say they "had the flu" when they actually had a "cold" or other respiratory ailment - not Influenza. The shot is for actual influenza strains ... not the "common cold".


----------



## west point

Some thoughts. China reliability is suspect . a 1 in 30 death rate reported seems high/ so alarm about that mortality rate is a "who knows . 
A great immune system might be bad. Read this wiki about healthy young adults higher mortality rate in the 1918 flu
1. So you have a great immune system ? That actually be too much the 1918 flu had healthy young adults with great immune systems run away with higher mortality than young and old. See wiki
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic_of_1918 
Later on the 1019 virus mutated to a milder form without as high of a mortality rate.
2. What will happen with this corona virus?. Any guess is just a wild guess.
3. We cannot depend on what many countries are reporting as to how this virus is spreading. I especially wonder about China. Their latest figures have a mortality rate of just over 1 in 30 cases. But how are cases counted ? All? just hospitalized? serious cases only ?


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## iplaybass

My employer has cancelled all non-essential business travel. There goes my March STL-WAS trip down the drain. And 20% of my ticket.


----------



## Bob Dylan

iplaybass said:


> My employer has cancelled all non-essential business travel. There goes my March STL-WAS trip down the drain. And 20% of my ticket.


Since it is a Business Trip, hopefully you'll be reimbursed by your Company!


----------



## Lacunacoil

I'm in nyc, today, in a $300 hotel for $65 partly im guessing due to this virus. Normally I'd sleep in my car on weekend when in town due to hotel prices. Anyway, I would use amtrak today. But that can change if everything hits the fan. For instance, if this spreads like wild fire, you could see gigantic problems all over, from schools being cancelled to sports and concerts being empty or cancelled. On amtrak last week I baby wiped my seat and the one next to me. I also tried never touch anything. And the chronic coughers? I run from them, for 3 years I've been obsessed with getting away from anyone with slightest cold, as, I get sick often, likely due to being in ocean surfing


----------



## Samsbigtrip

RichieRich said:


> 72 and never had a flu shot, however, everyone I know who did get the shot - got sick!!! Have no plans to change my monthly AT trips.


At 71 I had my first ever flu shot a couple of months ago. I already have antiseptic wipes in my pre-packing box but I will not be panic-buying nappies, as some newspapers are reporting is happening!


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## flitcraft

Flu shots are a good idea for everyone that are able to get them, even those not in a high risk group. First, consider that lower risk doesn't mean no risk; at my daughter's old junior high school, a 30something teacher died from the ordinary flu this year. No risk factors, just bad luck. Second, even if someone gets the flu and doesn't get seriously or fatally ill, that doesn't mean there are no consequences. Each flu victim statistically passes it on to one to two others, who may be at high risk. If we had a vaccine for coronavirus, I would be the first in line for it, just to mitigate my own risk and to prevent my passing the illness on to others.


----------



## klweller4

I am concerned about a Coast Starlight trip starting Seattle to LA coming week (32hrs) after asking Amtrak to check if the air is totally recirculated or partially fresh and if there is any screening of passengers at all...answer: no screening and air is completely recirculating rather than any fresh air. So sad to miss trip but really concerned. Any others have input?


----------



## IndyLions

klweller4 said:


> I am concerned about a Coast Starlight trip starting Seattle to LA coming week (32hrs) after asking Amtrak to check if the air is totally recirculated or partially fresh and if there is any screening of passengers at all...answer: no screening and air is completely recirculating rather than any fresh air. So sad to miss trip but really concerned. Any others have input?



I think it comes down to your health/age, and your ability to reschedule the trip. And maybe more than anything - is worrying about the virus going to ruin your trip? If so, reschedule.


----------



## tricia

klweller4 said:


> I am concerned about a Coast Starlight trip starting Seattle to LA coming week (32hrs) after asking Amtrak to check if the air is totally recirculated or partially fresh and if there is any screening of passengers at all...answer: no screening and air is completely recirculating rather than any fresh air. So sad to miss trip but really concerned. Any others have input?



Unlike airplanes, trains get a LOT of fresh air coming in through the doors every time the train stops. Also, even when the train is rolling, I think a good bit of fresh air infiltrates into the vestibules between cars, which then moves into the cars whenever anyone passes between cars.


----------



## TinCan782

tricia said:


> Unlike airplanes, trains get a LOT of fresh air coming in through the doors every time the train stops. Also, even when the train is rolling, I think a good bit of fresh air infiltrates into the vestibules between cars, which then moves into the cars whenever anyone passes between cars.


Especially evident when you get a whiff of diesel exhaust from time-to-time.


----------



## Winecliff Station

Samsbigtrip said:


> At 71 I had my first ever flu shot a couple of months ago. I already have antiseptic wipes in my pre-packing box but I will not be panic-buying nappies, as some newspapers are reporting is happening!



Until this past November I’d never had a flu shot since I’ve never had the flu in my life and I’m 52. I finally got one because I started a new job in corrections. I assumed the risk might be higher now given the large number of people, both inmates and staff, that I’d be working around, particularly since I’m working in three different jails.

My next Amtrak trip is right after a cruise but isn’t until mid November so hopefully by then things will be different with the corona virus


----------



## Skyline

Well, I have an extensive (and expensive) Canadian trip lined up for early September. Not cancelling yet, wait and see, but if there isn't some really good news I'll likely postpone until 2021 or later. 

All this talk of recirculating air, wiping down everything constantly, running from coughers, etc. makes me think this would be a good year to drive myself where I need to go, and make this a backpacking year where I can breathe relatively safe air 24/7 in the mountains. Sure, I'll have to leave the woods once a week to resupply food and other expendables, shower, do laundry, etc but that's a less risky four hours per week than the alternatives. Most long distance hikers stopped shaking hands years ago to avoid norovirus, doing a quick fist bump instead, so sporadic interactions with others should be safe so long as we're not in confined spaces. I only share my tent with my dawg.

I hope this all gets resolved soon so we can get back to discussing important stuff like Amtrak's "new and improved" dining options. But what I witnessed on TV yesterday doesn't inspire. The only thing I'm seeing so far is Trump putting Pence in charge of coronavirus. Yep, the guy whose theocracy-inspired policies in Indiana resulted in the largest increase in HIV infections in that state when he was governor. So predictable.


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## adamj023

Amtrak is an open system without monitoring and has old train sets which I presume are not equipped with Modern HEPA filters on their older train cars. The newer cars like Acela may have them already and if not the replacements will definitely have them as they come online for both Amfleet and Acela replacements but this will take awhile. If there are major issues, then Amtrak could decide to disinfect train sets and install the filters so I would be cautious about using Amtrak right now.



pianocat said:


> I’m booked and ready to go for mid-March , but depending on your choice of news outlets, you’d think we all need to become survivalists and soon. [No offense to survivalists!] There are 2 schools of thought on the whole thing, and I guess I’m looking for input from others who might be in same boat - wondering if close quarter travel is wise in the near future. I tend to see the glass as half full, and my eye is on the prize of seeing my daughters for this trip, so I’m primed to go no matter what. However. I have asthma pretty bad, am in that upper age range - [over 60] and guess I’m just looking for some feedback about how anyone else might be seeing this. So many unknowns, and that’s part of the problem. I’m monitoring the CDC updates, and won’t change my plans until/if unnecessary travel is advised. Anyone else concerned about this? I have a chronic cough, part of the asthma condition, and hope I don’t become the pariah of the SWC! I probably should be more concerned about the trip back in that Petrie dish of an airplane, than the train where I can pretty much isolate myself as much as i want. It’s a go for now.
> 
> 
> MODERATOR NOTE: currently, there are 2 threads relating to the Coronavirus. This thread and one in the AU Lounge: https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/th...-began-in-wuhan-china-and-is-spreading.76916/
> 
> If your comment is related to spread of Coronavirus throughout the world or non-Amtrak travel, please post it in the thread located in the AU Lounge linked above. If related to Amtrak travel, please post in this thread. Thank you.


----------



## Sauve850

Suze10860 said:


> Oh, I do trust you. I'll definitely think about it differently when I'm a bit older.
> 
> For now, I'm an exceedingly healthy and fit 60 year old. AARP might consider me a "senior" but I don't!
> 
> Also, I see my primary care doctor 2X a year (keeping my cholesterol and blood pressure in check) and until such time as he tells me I should be getting the shots, I'll stick with my decision. He asks me about them when I go, but is comfortable with the fact that I don't want them at this time. He too has mentioned that as I get older, our discussions will become more serious.


Best of luck to you. Exceedingly healthy and fit 60 year old doesnt mean you dont get the flu. The flu can cause severe complications in anyone of any age and is absolutely no fun to have.


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## pennyk

Change fees will be waived through 4/30/20
https://www.amtrak.com/ibcontent/changeFeeWaived.html
*Change Fees Waived on All Existing or New Reservations Made Before April 30*
There are no current travel restrictions on Amtrak. However, we understand you may have concerns, and as a valued customer we will waive change fees on all existing or new reservations made before April 30, 2020. We will continue to monitor the coronavirus situation closely and adjust this policy as necessary. 

The waiver applies for tickets purchased by April 30, 2020.

*How to Change Your Reservation*
Simply log in to your account or go to Modify Trip on Amtrak.com, or find your reservation from your account on the home screen in the Amtrak app.

A fare difference may apply to your new itinerary if it is more expensive than the original fare purchased.

If you want to cancel your reservation, call 1-800-USA-RAIL.


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## AmtrakBlue

Change fees waived

"There are no current travel restrictions on Amtrak. However, we understand you may have concerns, and as a valued customer we will waive change fees on all existing or new reservations made before April 30, 2020. "

https://www.amtrak.com/ibcontent/changeFeeWaived.html


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## fillyjonk

Hm. Well, at least I won't be out any money if I decide to cancel my spring break travel on the Eagle (going from MIN - BNL, *but* it would be on a train originating in LA....and there has been a case or two found in Chicago)


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## Suze10860

Off to Chicago the first week of April. The only thing that would get me to NOT take the trip is if the train itself was not running. At which point we would probably get in our car and take the 12 hour drive (which is what I really want to avoid.)

My son is in Chicago and it would take an awful lot to keep us (husband and I) from making this trip.


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## pianocat

pennyk said:


> Change fees will be waived through 4/30/20
> https://www.amtrak.com/ibcontent/changeFeeWaived.html
> *Change Fees Waived on All Existing or New Reservations Made Before April 30*
> There are no current travel restrictions on Amtrak. However, we understand you may have concerns, and as a valued customer we will waive change fees on all existing or new reservations made before April 30, 2020. We will continue to monitor the coronavirus situation closely and adjust this policy as necessary.
> 
> The waiver applies for tickets purchased by April 30, 2020.
> 
> *How to Change Your Reservation*
> Simply log in to your account or go to Modify Trip on Amtrak.com, or find your reservation from your account on the home screen in the Amtrak app.
> 
> A fare difference may apply to your new itinerary if it is more expensive than the original fare purchased.
> 
> If you want to cancel your reservation, call 1-800-USA-RAIL.



Good to know. Thanks.


----------



## abdnz

We are headed to LA in April from NZ to catch the South West Chief to Chicago and then Train No 30 to Washington followed by Train No 91 to Fort Lauderdale. Then a cruise through Panama Canal then up to Alaska. We are are watching the situation in the US with regards to the virus.


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## iplaybass

Bob Dylan said:


> Since it is a Business Trip, hopefully you'll be reimbursed by your Company!


Not in this case. But the waived change fee might save me. Hoping the travel ban is temporary.


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## jis

They are waiving change fees. Are they waiving cancellation fees too?


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> They are waiving change fees. Are they waiving cancellation fees too?


I'm not even sure what a change fee refers to in the context of Amtrak ticketing. I guess it's tied to the new policy that was setup to further restrict value and saver tickets? The bigger issue for me is that they still expect you to buy-up to the current bucket for any positive fare difference. Amtrak didn't cause or exacerbate COVID-19, so it's entirely up them if they want to permit no charge as-is changes, but I think it's important to recognize that is _not_ what they're doing right now.


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## Qapla

> Coronavirus and traveling on Amtrak....Elephant in the room



I hope the Elephant doesn't get the virus


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## Lacunacoil

Yeah saw this this morning. Coronavirus is heating up, killing elderly like wild fire, I keep plastic latex type glove in wallet to avoid touching anything others touch at register, and gloves when I get gas, sleeve to open doors, I was already doing this a bit, to reduce my 5 colds a year,...now its survival. I'm probably gona be dead if I get this I have have problems to begin with. I think we will see 30, to 100 thousand deaths just in 2020 unless it vanishes


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## west point

No elephant but hope report of a dog getting it is incorrect !


----------



## Sauve850

Lacunacoil said:


> Yeah saw this this morning. Coronavirus is heating up, killing elderly like wild fire, I keep plastic latex type glove in wallet to avoid touching anything others touch at register, and gloves when I get gas, sleeve to open doors, I was already doing this a bit, to reduce my 5 colds a year,...now its survival. I'm probably gona be dead if I get this I have have problems to begin with. I think we will see 30, to 100 thousand deaths just in 2020 unless it vanishes


That would be a stunning amount. 30-100 thousand considering new cases in the major areas are dropping daily. Its good you are being safe.


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## pianocat

Sauve850 said:


> That would be a stunning amount. 30-100 thousand considering new cases in the major areas are dropping daily. Its good you are being safe.



What do you base 30 - 100,000 deaths on? That’s well beyond the current statistic of death to infected rate. Your post is sort of inciting panic, or fear in people who don’t follow the science and rather read things like this. Sure, we don’t know how this particular virus will work itself out, but to make such dire prediction is a bit premature and probably best kept to self. There are smart things to do, steps to take to ensure one’s safety. Even individuals with health conditions already in place are making it through quarantine and coming out the other side just fine. No need to be a Debbie Downer when you have no science to back up your numbers. CDC.gov. Everyone should subscribe to their weekly newsletters with updates. JMHO.


----------



## pianocat

pianocat said:


> What do you base 30 - 100,000 deaths on? That’s well beyond the current statistic of death to infected rate. Your post is sort of inciting panic, or fear in people who don’t follow the science and rather read things like this. Sure, we don’t know how this particular virus will work itself out, but to make such dire prediction is a bit premature and probably best kept to self. There are smart things to do, steps to take to ensure one’s safety. Even individuals with health conditions already in place are making it through quarantine and coming out the other side just fine. No need to be a Debbie Downer when you have no science to back up your numbers. CDC.gov. Everyone should subscribe to their weekly newsletters with updates. JMHO.



PS, I send this reply to the original poster of those stats, not Suave850!


----------



## west point

Published infection rates and mortality rates are completely suspect. The only one we have any significant stats numbers is China's figures of 1 in about 30 deaths. But what is the base Only serious cases or all cases or some where in the middle. China may not even know how many get a mild case or may not report mild cases ? What bout Iran ? It can go on and on. In one week this post will probably be completely obsolete and have no meaning ? Check its date.

EDIT: There was An interesting interview with one health official on CBS tonight . He stated that maybe 75% of the US population would eventually come down with the virus. Find that suspect. However that might include persons who are only carriers ? Again this will all be obsolete in a week or less ?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

pianocat said:


> PS, I send this reply to the original poster of those stats, not Suave850!



Based on other posts by the person who posted those stats, s/he tends to over exaggerate things. [emoji57]


----------



## DonNewcomb

I think the people who are freaking out over COVAR-19 are the same ones who refuse to get their annual flu vaccination because, "I got the flu shot once and got the flu anyway." Something on the order of 20K people die each year as a result of catching the flu. No one blinks an eye. Hopefully, by August a vaccine for COVAR-19 will be released. ITMT, we all need to be very careful about public hygiene, wash our hands thoroughly and regularly and stop touching our faces (my downfall).


----------



## Suze10860

DonNewcomb said:


> I think the people who are freaking out over COVAR-19 are the same ones who refuse to get their annual flu vaccination



I would definitely disagree with this. I am one of those people who do NOT get a flu vaccination - and I will continue to do so (or actually not do so) until my doctor (the guy with the medical training) tells me it's time. (I'm 60 years old, very healthy, and work in a school environment...yet still, he agrees that I'm fine at this point without a shot.)

I think it's the opposite - the people who are concerned (I like that better than "freaking out") are the ones who DO get their flu shots. They obviously have a bigger concern than someone like me, a non-shot getter. And maybe there's a good reason for that for them.

I don't get flu shots (yet), I've never gotten the flu (yet) and my concern level about the coronavirus is very very low.

Sorry - I place 99% of the blame on the media. Stop screaming at us every day about it! As always, just my opinion.


----------



## BLNT

Well, at least I heard less about it since the South Carolina primary, and with Super Tuesday today - that will distract them (the media) for a bit.

I have 3 auto train trips booked - still planning on going.

I stocked up on food/essentials (weeks worth) in the last several days. We've had close brushes (less than 100 miles offshore) with major hurricanes 3 of the last 4 years - so, if nothing else, I'm just prepping early for the season !

If/when the general public (whole country) panics/smells blood, there will be lots of empty shelves. I've seen it locally with storms, and this would be much worse I suspect. Not sure how much "stuff" is out there in warehouses ready to restock THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

The stuff won't really hit the fan unless there's widespread school closings and such - then it will be a domino effect.


----------



## HP_Lovecraft

Suze10860 said:


> Sorry - I place 99% of the blame on the media. Stop screaming at us every day about it! As always, just my opinion.



I agree. It is not as serious as the common flu, and nowhere near as serious as the spanish flu. 
The media's #1 job is to sell airtime for commercials, and more viewers means more money. 

Thats why the media is screaming "apocalypse" but the medical industry is say, "meh, get your flu shot, wash your hands".

THat said, while I'm not going to change any of my plans, I am worried that this media frenzy is going to cause my plans to get cancelled.


----------



## tricia

HP_Lovecraft said:


> I agree. It is not as serious as the common flu, ....



It's REALLY too soon to conclude that. We don't know nearly enough about exactly how the virus is transmitted, how long it can live outside a living host, what proportion of infected people don't show symptoms and/or for how long.... This is NOT a virus we co-evolved with, so its epidemiological pattern in human populations is unknown.


----------



## jis

The concrete number that is know at present is that of all the resolved cases (i.e. recovered or died) about 6% are fatalities. This number has been slowly coming down as time passes. That number is much much higher than for Flu. However, this number is also unduly skewed by Hubei. China minus Hubei is closer to 1-3%. Outside China, at present Italy and Iran are much much higher, but that is to be expected during the early phase of spread in an area, since typically fatalities take less time than full recovery.

Of course it also gives little indication about what that number will settle down to in steady state after a vaccine has become available and more is known about prevention and treatment. The Chinese and Singaporeans, for example, are currently way ahead of us, specially in crafting an antibody test, that they have already started using.

One important thing that is not known yet is how long an immunity developed through an infection lasts. The Chinese have found some effectiveness in using blood serum from recovered patients for treating serious and critical cases. They currently have almost 50,000 recovered cases.

The other concrete number that is known and possibly of some use is that of all the active cases a shade over 17% are classified as serious or critical. The total number of active cases worldwide is still trending marginally downwards with passing time. But that may not last as the spread in other areas enters a growth phase of the process.


----------



## Barb Stout

Suze10860 said:


> I would definitely disagree with this. I am one of those people who do NOT get a flu vaccination - and I will continue to do so (or actually not do so) until my doctor (the guy with the medical training) tells me it's time. (I'm 60 years old, very healthy, and work in a school environment...yet still, he agrees that I'm fine at this point without a shot.)
> 
> I think it's the opposite - the people who are concerned (I like that better than "freaking out") are the ones who DO get their flu shots. They obviously have a bigger concern than someone like me, a non-shot getter. And maybe there's a good reason for that for them.
> 
> I don't get flu shots (yet), I've never gotten the flu (yet) and my concern level about the coronavirus is very very low.
> 
> Sorry - I place 99% of the blame on the media. Stop screaming at us every day about it! As always, just my opinion.


I know a number of school teachers and they are always getting sick with something or another. One of my friends had to retire early because she got so many respiratory illnesses including flu from the kiddos that she ended up with chronic bronchitis and now has COPD from that. My sister quit teaching and once she did, she stopped getting all those infectious respiratory illnesses including flu and pneumonias, but her system had been already badly damaged by all the pneumonias that she had gotten every winter that she is now on oxygen 24/7 and can't walk. She just turned 70 last year. So I think you are lucky to have successfully evaded infectious diseases and I'm really glad. I think your doctor probably understands you have a robust system and that is why he doesn't press you on the flu vaccination issue.


----------



## piedpiper

its amazing that no one sees this on their own Lysol cans


----------



## DonNewcomb

Suze10860 said:


> .....and I will continue to do so (or actually not do so) until my doctor (the guy with the medical training) tells me it's time. (I'm 60 years old, very healthy, and work in a school environment...yet still, he agrees that I'm fine at this point without a shot.).....


Assuming we're talking about an MD or DO, you might want recheck with him for his current advice. Many of the most serious cases of COVAR-19 are in combination with some other ailment (e.g. flu, pneumonia, etc.)



piedpiper said:


> its amazing that no one sees this on their own Lysol cans


There is nothing new about Coronavirus. It's a class of virus. I think it causes the common cold. What's new is COVAR-19, a much more serious form of the Coronavirus.


----------



## jis

DonNewcomb said:


> Assuming we're talking about an MD or DO, you might want recheck with him for his current advice. Many of the most serious cases of COVAR-19 are in combination with some other ailment (e.g. flu, pneumonia, etc.)
> 
> There is nothing new about Coronavirus. It's a class of virus. I think it causes the common cold. What's new is COVAR-19, a much more serious form of the Coronavirus.


The official name of the virus appears to be SARS-CoV-2. The disease caused by the virus is called COVID-19 (stands for COrona VIrus Disease of 19). However, in popular press the name of the disease is often used as the name of the virus. The Chinese had initially named the virus 2019-nCoV (2019 new Corona Virus).

Indeed many of the severe or critical cases involve some sort of bacterial pneumonia resulting from a virus weakened respiratory system. This is disastrous for anyone with a compromised immune system.


----------



## jis

west point said:


> Published infection rates and mortality rates are completely suspect. The only one we have any significant stats numbers is China's figures of 1 in about 30 deaths. But what is the base Only serious cases or all cases or some where in the middle. China may not even know how many get a mild case or may not report mild cases ? What bout Iran ? It can go on and on. In one week this post will probably be completely obsolete and have no meaning ? Check its date.


You might as well start questioning the veracity of what is coming out of our own CDC while you are at it. They seem to have been unable to get a testing kit that actually works even until a few days back. On the other hand they did very quickly sequence and publish the virus sample collected from the first Snohomish County case. They can be very good when there is reduced political and bureaucratic interference.

China and Singapore at least have a serum antibody test that they are starting to deploy, that will allow them to learn of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic cases. US is still far from getting one of those. It barely has a regular test for the disease out in the field.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...d-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve


----------



## Devil's Advocate

piedpiper said:


> its amazing that no one sees this on their own Lysol cansView attachment 17019


I recently saw several images like this accompanying wild-eyed accusations. Apparently there's a growing conspiracy theory that corona viruses were designed and released by terrorists/media/medical personnel in order to harm a certain stable genius. 



jis said:


> You might as well start questioning the veracity of what is coming out of our own CDC while you are at it. They seem to have been unable to get a testing kit that actually works even until a few days back.


The CDC was recently implicated in the premature release of an infected quarantine subject spurring the declaration of a local emergency in an attempt to prevent further lapses in judgement and ineffective protocol.


----------



## DonNewcomb

Devil's Advocate said:


> I recently saw several images like this combined with wild-eyed accusations. Apparently there's a growing conspiracy wave claiming that corona viruses were designed and released by terrorists/media/medical personnel in order to harm a certain stable genius.....


 Hanlon's razor


----------



## Shortline

I'm much more concerned about bed bugs, and the flu. Just booked a flight Birmingham to Chicago, returning via the Capitol and Crescent.


----------



## Shortline

Devil's Advocate said:


> I recently saw several images like this combined with wild-eyed accusations. Apparently there's a growing conspiracy wave claiming that corona viruses were designed and released by terrorists/media/medical personnel in order to harm a certain stable genius.
> 
> 
> The CDC was recently implicated in the premature release of an infected quarantine subject spurring the declaration of a local state of emergency in an attempt to prevent further lapses in judgement.



I'm sure that China's biological warfare center is in Wuhan, is just a coincidence. Right?


----------



## fillyjonk

I spoke today with the MD who teaches anatomy in my department. (He is also of Chinese heritage and has been to China in the past six months). He expressed concern over my risk of exposure (I have asthma but it is generally well-controlled) and especially expressed concern about my 83 year old mother. He seems to think the virus is considerably more serious than is being reported, based on what he's read in journals. So, out of what is probably an excess of caution, I re-made my reservations for May.

I am not sure why people are claiming it was "free" to cancel; I would have eaten nearly $200 of a $700 trip (NO I do not pay for travel insurance, maybe I should?) if I had canceled, and a little less if I had taken the ticket as a "voucher" but apparently May was soon enough to reschedule.

I HOPE this is under control by then, or if it isn't, I'll just cancel and eat the $200 but I am not happy. Also not happy about not getting to see my mom and spending a spring break stuck in my little town, but whatever.


----------



## Dovecote

jis said:


> They are waiving change fees. Are they waiving cancellation fees too?



Hello To All, It has been awhile since my last post. I have been a lurker for the past year and a half. Family issues have kept me from traveling and participating in the forum. I can add some insight though to this question after cancelling an existing AGR reservation this morning. 

The reservation in question was made in early February 2020. When it was cancelled my redemption points were reposted to my account minus a 10% penalty fee. At the time I was unaware of the Change Fees Waived policy recently implemented. When I acquired later in the day concerning this policy, the AGR agent came across unfamiliar with this new policy. I asked to speak to a supervisor and after waiting for a few minutes the AGR agent said none were available to discuss my matter. After further discussion, the agent offered to repost (on a one time basis) the penalized points to my account. The agent explained the reposting of points in this manner is handled via an email request. I will followup with another post when this happens. I have concerns they may not.

I must say my two calls today with the AGR agents question on whether I was talking to outsourced individuals. The first agent was initially going to charge me a 20% penalty fee. I had to read the penalty policy off the website to the agent. The second agent appeared to be unaware of the Change Fee Policy that was recently implemented. This is not the AGR I have experienced on prior occasions.


----------



## Dovecote

Dovecote said:


> Hello To All, It has been awhile since my last post. I have been a lurker for the past year and a half. Family issues have kept me from traveling and participating in the forum. I can add some insight though to this question after cancelling an existing AGR reservation this morning.
> 
> The reservation in question was made in early February 2020. When it was cancelled my redemption points were reposted to my account minus a 10% penalty fee. At the time I was unaware of the Change Fees Waived policy recently implemented. When I acquired later in the day concerning this policy, the AGR agent came across unfamiliar with this new policy. I asked to speak to a supervisor and after waiting for a few minutes the AGR agent said none were available to discuss my matter. After further discussion, the agent offered to repost (on a one time basis) the penalized points to my account. The agent explained the reposting of points in this manner is handled via an email request. I will followup with another post when this happens. I have concerns they may not.
> 
> I must say my two calls today with the AGR agents question on whether I was talking to outsourced individuals. The first agent was initially going to charge me a 20% penalty fee. I had to read the penalty policy off the website to the agent. The second agent appeared to be unaware of the Change Fee Policy that was recently implemented. This is not the AGR I have experienced on prior occasions.



A happening ending. My penalty points were reposted to my account. 

03/03/2020
Amtrak Travel Redemption - Manual Adjustment
Adjustments
1,622
03/03/2020
Point Redeposit Penalty for travel redemption -
Adjustments
-1,622


----------



## flitcraft

Dovecote said:


> A happening ending. My penalty points were reposted to my account.
> 
> 03/03/2020
> Amtrak Travel Redemption - Manual Adjustment
> Adjustments
> 1,622
> 03/03/2020
> Point Redeposit Penalty for travel redemption -
> Adjustments
> -1,622


Good to see that this worked as it should!


----------



## jis

I just canceled a trip this coming weekend and this was my experience:

United: refunded everything from a non refundable fare, no questions asked. As a matter of fact I did not have to talk to anyone. The web site did it automatically.

Amtrak: refunded everything without any penalty, no questions asked. As a matter of fact I did not have to talk to anyone. The web site did it automatically.

Hilton: since it was past the cancellation window I had to talk to an agent. But she arranged to have the reservation canceled without any single night penalty charge.


----------



## pianocat

jis said:


> I just canceled a trip this coming weekend and this was my experience:
> 
> United: refunded everything from a non refundable fare, no questions asked. As a matter of fact I did not have to talk to anyone. The web site did it automatically.
> 
> Amtrak: refunded everything without any penalty, no questions asked. As a matter of fact I did not have to talk to anyone. The web site did it automatically.
> 
> Hilton: since it was past the cancellation window I had to talk to an agent. But she arranged to have the reservation canceled without any single night penalty charge.



I’m still on the fence about keeping my trip scheduled for Mar22-26 on both Amtrak [outbound] and American [return], so when I read this it caught my attention. Are you saying they’re giving refunds for cancel, rather than just waiving fees for changing travel dates? Whatever United is doing, I’m sure American will follow suit. Their website, at the moment, is only waiving the change fee. And at Amtrak, when I pull up my trip I don’t dare hit the ‘cancel trip’ button as I’m not sure yet if I’m going. If I called a rep from both Amtrak and AA, I wonder if they’d tell me refunds are being offered?


----------



## jis

pianocat said:


> I’m still on the fence about keeping my trip scheduled for Mar22-26 on both Amtrak [outbound] and American [return], so when I read this it caught my attention. Are you saying they’re giving refunds for cancel, rather than just waiving fees for changing travel dates? Whatever United is doing, I’m sure American will follow suit. Their website, at the moment, is only waiving the change fee. And at Amtrak, when I pull up my trip I don’t dare hit the ‘cancel trip’ button as I’m not sure yet if I’m going. If I called a rep from both Amtrak and AA, I wonder if they’d tell me refunds are being offered?


United refunded both my fare to the credit card and the points that I had tendered for upgrades that had come through. I have no idea if this is affected by my relatively high lifetime status at United or this is valid for all. I follow the dictum of never looking a gift horse in the mouth.


----------



## west point

For those on the fence about cancelling. Study the rate of infections and more importantly the mortality rate for your age group. It is a little disconcerting about the old age mortality at the Seattle home. That is too small of a risk group to yet draw any conclusions. Maybe in a week it may be clearer. One thought. Suppose you go on a trip and get sick and are put off train in north east Podunk >?


----------



## jis

west point said:


> For those on the fence about cancelling. Study the rate of infections and more importantly the mortality rate for your age group. It is a little disconcerting about the old age mortality at the Seattle home. That is too small of a risk group to yet draw any conclusions. Maybe in a week it may be clearer. One thought. Suppose you go on a trip and get sick and are put off train in north east Podunk >?


Frankly my worry while I was on the road in Feb was getting stuck in a 14 day quarantine far from home. Nobody is going to put someone off a train without placing them in some kind of quarantine now, if they suspect COVID-19. And it won't be just the individual. It will likely be the entire train. Look what happened to the cruise ship.


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## BLNT

jis said:


> Frankly my worry while I was on the road in Feb was getting stuck in a 14 day quarantine far from home. Nobody is going to put someone off a train without placing them in some kind of quarantine now, if they suspect COVID-19. And it won't be just the individual. It will likely be the entire train. Look what happened to the cruise ship.



Living right near Pt. Canaveral, I have my share of cruise nights (north of 500). I've been on, what I considered at the time, a couple of "cruises from hell" - but the bar has been raised!


----------



## jis

BLNT said:


> Living right near Pt. Canaveral, I have my share of cruise nights (north of 500). I've been on, what I considered at the time, a couple of "cruises from hell" - but the bar has been raised!


Hey! Where are you located? I am in West Melbourne very near Hammock Landing at the I-95 interchange with Palm Bay Road.


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## BLNT

jis said:


> Hey! Where are you located? I am in West Melbourne very near Hammock Landing at the I-95 interchange with Palm Bay Road.



Cocoa Village - looking out on the river right now (live in Rockledge)


----------



## fairviewroad

west point said:


> One thought. Suppose you go on a trip and get sick and are put off train in north east Podunk >?



I think a much more likely scenario is that Amtrak will cancel your return trip and leave you with "no alternative transportation." Some airlines are announcing reduced flight schedules for the next couple of months. It's easy to imagine that Amtrak might, too. 

Some of this could take the form of canceling some NEC runs. In that case the affected passengers could be accommodated relatively easily on other trains. But what if Amtrak all of a sudden axes a western LD route back to 3x/week? That could throw a wrench in your plans, especially if you are in a sleeping accommodation. 

I have no knowledge of that happening, but to me it's a much more likely event than a passenger being kicked off the train due to an unconfirmed case of COVID-19.


----------



## Dovecote

pianocat said:


> I’m still on the fence about keeping my trip scheduled for Mar22-26 on both Amtrak [outbound] and American [return], so when I read this it caught my attention. Are you saying they’re giving refunds for cancel, rather than just waiving fees for changing travel dates? Whatever United is doing, I’m sure American will follow suit. Their website, at the moment, is only waiving the change fee. And at Amtrak, when I pull up my trip I don’t dare hit the ‘cancel trip’ button as I’m not sure yet if I’m going. If I called a rep from both Amtrak and AA, I wonder if they’d tell me refunds are being offered?



In my case with the AGR agents I basically had to tell them about this new refund policy. I honestly feel they were unfamiliar with this new edict had I not have mentioned it to each of the agents. Be prepared to have that press release available for discussion.


----------



## wordsmith

jis said:


> I just canceled a trip this coming weekend and this was my experience:
> 
> Amtrak: refunded everything without any penalty, no questions asked. As a matter of fact I did not have to talk to anyone. The web site did it automatically.



Wait a second...how come when I looked at cancelling the long distance trip I have planned for late March the website was showing me penalties applied? What were you able to cancel with no penalty? I have not called in yet because we are still on the fence about going but I assume it will be a huge fight to try to cancel without a penalty.


----------



## Abe26

Amtrak 64 was delayed today by more then a hour at the border, as the US customs denied entry for 2 individual who were recently in Iran and China, they also closed off the car were they were sitting


----------



## junebug

I understand how you feel if you cancel. Can't imagine this happening again in the near future, but I thoroughly enjoyed chatting and eating with the Chinese tourists I met on a two-day train ride on the Southwest Chief.

I know I am being a jerk about this, but yesterday I flew Frontier Airlines for the first time. If I had known I would have had to walk through Korean Air in the International terminal in Chicago to get there, I probably would have taken a different airline.


----------



## jis

wordsmith said:


> Wait a second...how come when I looked at cancelling the long distance trip I have planned for late March the website was showing me penalties applied? What were you able to cancel with no penalty? I have not called in yet because we are still on the fence about going but I assume it will be a huge fight to try to cancel without a penalty.



I will find out soon what happens when I try to cancel Sleepers in late March. I will try to do so today. What I canceled was Empire Service.


----------



## BLNT

jis said:


> I will find out soon what happens when I try to cancel Sleepers in late March. I will try to do so today. What I canceled was Empire Service.



I have a round trip scheduled on the Auto Train (end of March, return early April) - as well as two other R/T's in mid and late summer. For all of them I booked priority offloading and coach seats - though we won't be travelling in coach. I booked them all basically to lock in the priority offloading, with the knowledge that we could cancel if our plans changed and be able to get a full refund (7+ days prior to departure). When we're certain we'll travel via train, we'll make the upgrade to a bedroom - IF there are any left. If not, we'll fly or drive (most likely).

Having said all of that - I guess things have changed, penalty wise, for the time being?


----------



## west point

"IF" panic sets in for US travel there may be few persons traveling on Amtrak as is what 's happening for some airline travel ?


----------



## BLNT

west point said:


> "IF" panic sets in for US travel there may be few persons traveling on Amtrak as is what 's happening for some airline travel ?



The roads might get a lot busier !


----------



## iplaybass

My conference got canceled due to COVID-19. Roomette to DC and back. Called just now to cancel, first got the standard cancellation fee line. Stated the conference was canceled due to COVID-19, so the reason for the trip was no longer there, and that I hated to lose that value. Rep quickly checked with a supervisor and cancellation fees were waived. Full refund to credit card.


----------



## Barb Stout

west point said:


> Media report that COVID-19 is two different strains. Hope that it is incorrect. Otherwise immunity to one strain might not carry over to other strain much like flu. Also two strains might have different transmission vectors and different mortality rates.


Someone on this forum posted a phylogeny chart on various Covid-19 isolates and as biologists are fully aware and would not be surprised by, there are a few nucleotide and/or amino acid differences between the isolates gathered from people in the US. At what point that makes them different strains, I don't know, but there can be crossover recognition between different strains of different viruses/bacteria with the immune/vaccine systems.


----------



## pianocat

Here is how American and Amtrak handled canceling my reservations today. American waived the $200 fee, even though I booked that portion before March 1 and the balance of what I paid can be applied to future travel on AA, within a year. Amtrak - I was pleasantly surprised to explain the situation, asked if a refund is possible instead of re-booking, and after some hold time, the rep refunded the entire paid amount to cc of origin. Wasn’t expecting that one. Just FYI, to anyone else in similar situation. And yes, YMMV.


----------



## jis

Meanwhile this is what has been going on in domestic air travel, just as an example.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/healt...coronavirus-patient-blasts-florida-officials/

Who knows how many such are going around undetected, since we are woefully inadequate and behind in carrying out tests.


----------



## jebr

Remember that this thread is specific to impacts on Amtrak.

On that note, Amtrak is making service adjustments, including suspending the Acela Nonstop service until after Memorial Day.

https://media.amtrak.com/2020/03/amtrak-takes-active-measures-to-maintain-safe-environment/


----------



## lordsigma

jebr said:


> Remember that this thread is specific to impacts on Amtrak.
> 
> On that note, Amtrak is making service adjustments, including suspending the Acela Nonstop service until after Memorial Day.
> 
> https://media.amtrak.com/2020/03/amtrak-takes-active-measures-to-maintain-safe-environment/



The million dollar question is will Acela non stop come back or is this an excuse to discontinue it unnoticed.


----------



## Thirdrail7

lordsigma said:


> The million dollar question is will Acela non stop come back or is this an excuse to discontinue it unnoticed.



You will probably see them reappear until the summer recess but in a slightly different time period. These may not be the only adjustments.


----------



## BLNT

If only ostriches were subject to karma !

At this point, my Auto Train trip at the end of the month is still on - as I have not cancelled it, nor has Amtrak.

What an exciting time we live in. Yep, that's the word... exciting (said with rolling eyes).


----------



## IndyLions

If you start to cancel an itinerary online and you see cancellation fees (or the lack of a full refund) - ABORT the online cancellation. You can get a full refund by calling the 1-800-USA-RAIL hotline instead.


----------



## BLNT

IndyLions said:


> If you start to cancel an itinerary online and you see cancellation fees (or the lack of a full refund) - ABORT the online cancellation. You can get a full refund by calling the 1-800-USA-RAIL hotline instead.



So - I can go ahead and make the switch to a bedroom (the only way we'll travel on the Auto Train) from coach for my trip at the end of the month, without having to be concerned with a cancel fee, or not being able to get a full (to my credit card) refund?


----------



## RichieRich

BLNT said:


> So - I can go ahead and make the switch to a bedroom (the only way we'll travel on the Auto Train) from coach for my trip at the end of the month, without having to be concerned with a cancel fee, or not being able to get a full (to my credit card) refund?


If available. I LOL at people waiting at LOR or SFA thinking they can switch at the last minute due to possible cancellations. Surprise = highest $$$ possible, most expensive, top o'the bucket list!


----------



## SarahZ

RichieRich said:


> If available. I LOL at people waiting at LOR or SFA thinking they can switch at the last minute due to possible cancellations. Surprise = highest $$$ possible, most expensive, top o'the bucket list!


Sometimes it's worth it to have a room, though. There have been times rooms were sold out and I was forced to overnight in coach. I would have gladly paid top-bucket for a room both times that happened.


----------



## Qapla

I got this in my email today - I have a trip booked for July that I booked in Feb



> The safety of our customers and employees is Amtrak's top priority. We are closely monitoring the Covid-19 situation and are taking action based on guidance from public health experts. In order to maintain a safe environment and address customer concerns, we are taking measures including:
> • *Enhanced cleaning protocols.* We have increased the frequency of cleaning service on our trains and at our stations.
> • *Additional antibacterial products.* We have increased the quantity of sanitizers and disinfectant wipes available for customers and employees throughout our trains and stations.
> • *No change fees on bookings made through April 30, 2020.* We are waiving change fees so you can book travel on Amtrak® with confidence, knowing you have the flexibility to change your plans.
> We will continue to respond to the latest on Covid‑19 with customer and employee safety top of mind. As always, we will strive to create a safe and enjoyable experience for your Amtrak journey — and we hope to see you on board soon. Thank you for being an Amtrak Guest Rewards® member.


----------



## BLNT

RichieRich said:


> If available. I LOL at people waiting at LOR or SFA thinking they can switch at the last minute due to possible cancellations. Surprise = highest $$$ possible, most expensive, top o'the bucket list!



I've been keeping a close watch on the bedrooms. One leg got to the point today where the online reservation page indicated that there were "only two left at this price". I think that message kicks in with about 4 or so left, from my experience. Granted, they could have a run on them - and then *poof*. This time waiting didn't burn me!

At this point (of the year), the northbound bedrooms are about $500 more than the southbound ones. It would be way cheaper to book a couple of non-stop first class flights and rent a nice vehicle. But, it's never apples to apples, is it? !!

SO waiting for true autonomous vehicles!!


----------



## Lacunacoil

I need to go to Florida in few days. Pretty worried, I have many health problems but I cant do a 20 hour drive either. I should of went last week before everything went bad in nyc area.


----------



## BLNT

BLNT said:


> I've been keeping a close watch on the bedrooms. One leg got to the point today where the online reservation page indicated that there were "only two left at this price". I think that message kicks in with about 4 or so left, from my experience. Granted, they could have a run on them - and then *poof*. This time waiting didn't burn me!
> 
> At this point (of the year), the northbound bedrooms are about $500 more than the southbound ones. It would be way cheaper to book a couple of non-stop first class flights and rent a nice vehicle. But, it's never apples to apples, is it? !!
> 
> SO waiting for true autonomous vehicles!!



It pays to check the email confirmations they send you... Turns out my 3/27 northbound (for which I booked coach, vehicle, priority offload) was successfully changed to a bedroom. The catch was, the fellow somehow managed to separate our vehicle from that date, and had it going up on its own TODAY! Easily enough rectified via a second call to them.

I also see three pending charges on my CC for the two upgrades (bedrooms for north and south). Two are for the upgrade fee (coach to bedroom) and the third is for an entire bedroom reservation - something like $1,500. I'm assuming that will not actually post, but rest assured I'll be watching!

Also, it would be nice if they could all get together and call the sleeping accommodations the same things. He asked if we wanted a Roomette or a Bedroom Suite. I was tempted to say "what do your suites offer", but figured he was just talking about bedrooms. After giving him all the info, and my having stipulated bedrooms 2-3 times, he was in the process of putting me on hold to make the changes and said "ok, Roomette". I quickly reiterated that it was a bedroom we desired.

Perhaps he was a newbie -- but it's no wonder I had to call back to correct the error!


----------



## Barb Stout

Lacunacoil said:


> I need to go to Florida in few days. Pretty worried, I have many health problems but I cant do a 20 hour drive either. I should of went last week before everything went bad in nyc area.


What happened in NYC?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Barb Stout said:


> What happened in NYC?



Nothing more than what had happened in WA, CA, etc, etc


----------



## jebr

This thread needs to stay Amtrak-related. General discussion is to take place in the relevant thread in The Lounge. https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/th...-began-in-wuhan-china-and-is-spreading.76916/

Some off topic posts have been hidden, and any further ones will be hidden.


----------



## Daphne312

Hoping to travel on Amtrak in June to Cincinnati from SAN. I think Coronavirus scare should have settled down by then, but hoping to use some of my many Amtrak miles to upgrade to a roomette. Advice?


----------



## jis

Daphne312 said:


> Hoping to travel on Amtrak in June to Cincinnati from SAN. I think Coronavirus scare should have settled down by then, but hoping to use some of my many Amtrak miles to upgrade to a roomette. Advice?


Take a look at the following post in the general Coronavirus thread to understand how you can look at the daily numbers and estimate when things might start improving...

https://discuss.amtraktrains.com/th...ina-and-is-spreading.76916/page-3#post-836711


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Amtrak 303 had a passenger with COVID-19


https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/w...cle_ab31cb92-6181-11ea-b512-1712c5a3e8f8.html


----------



## TinCan782

AmtrakBlue said:


> Amtrak 303 had a passenger with COVID-19
> 
> 
> https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/w...cle_ab31cb92-6181-11ea-b512-1712c5a3e8f8.html


Yea, just saw that on FB. Was bound to happen eventually. Still staying with my trip this summer.
https://media.amtrak.com/2020/03/amtrak-statement-coronavirus-update-200-p-m-ct-mar-8/


----------



## flitcraft

Of course it was bound to happen, and no doubt is happening more often than is reported, due to the lack of available testing in the US, compared to, say South Korea or Italy. The question is for me is, what form of transportation offers the best odds on staying healthy, planes or trains. I still think Amtrak wins: airports are occupied by many more people, at closer proximity, than train stations, and you have to show up farther in advance, which means more exposure to more people. Once you get on a plane, you're in closer contact with fellow passengers than on a train, so the odds of getting enough viral load to get sick are higher. The downside of train travel is that you're in contact with those other people for a lot longer. For me, I'm still sticking with my April cross-country Amtrak trip, though this could change as the coronavirus situation changes.


----------



## Suze10860

I'm with you on sticking with our April trip - right smack into Chicago from NYC. Here's the text I just sent my son (who we are visiting at that time) along with a copy of the article above:

"I just calmed myself down. Because unless either Daddy or I (or one of you) actually has the virus ourselves, even if they did cancel the train, we could always hop in the car and come out. Unless of course the scenario starts resembling Stephen King’s “The Stand.” Have you read that? If it appears to be going that route, we’ll probably stay home. And set up for a possible zombie apocalypse because that's what's bound to follow. We’ll play it by ear......."

Hey, if I can't keep my sense of humor I'll probably find myself getting really bummed out. For now, I'm still holding out hope that our trip will go off as planned. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Qapla

We have not cancelled our trip for July - hoping they have a handle on things by then ... we'll see


----------



## Samsbigtrip

Qapla said:


> I got this in my email today - I have a trip booked for July that I booked in Feb


Does this only apply if you an"Amtrak Guest Rewards® member"?


----------



## adamj023

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-us-woman-tests-positive-105230812.html

I knew this would happen which is why I didn’t travel anywhere. Even Columbia University is being shut down temporarily as a preventative measure. It has gotten to be a very serious matter all over. The Amtrak network has greater reach but has less people in proximity than mass transit. Just one covid 19 infected passenger can infect dozens and dozens of people and of those, some will die from it.


----------



## Bob Dylan

According to a story on Google News, a Passenger on Lincoln Service Train #303 that de-trained in Bloomingyon Normal, has tested Positive for the Virus.

According a Spokesperson for Amtrak, all Trains between Chicago and St.Louis ( hopefully this includes the Eagles)are being thoroughly Cleaned between each trip, and the Amtrak Stations between Chicago and St Louis are receiving continuing Cleanings.


----------



## adamj023

The transmission mechanism is still not fully understood. Unclear if they can remove this virus from an infected train but people who take the train will continue to get infected by other passengers as the numbers keep going up.


----------



## Johanna

IndyLions said:


> If you start to cancel an itinerary online and you see cancellation fees (or the lack of a full refund) - ABORT the online cancellation. You can get a full refund by calling the 1-800-USA-RAIL hotline instead.



Can anyone confirm whether this is true even of Saver fares? I have a ticket for later this month that I won't be using (work-related travel to a conference that's no longer happening). Trying to cancel online offers me an eVoucher less a $7 fee. If I can get an actual refund by calling, I will, but I don't know if I want to spend the time waiting for an agent if all I'll get is an eVoucher with an extra $7 on it.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Johanna said:


> Can anyone confirm whether this is true even of Saver fares? I have a ticket for later this month that I won't be using (work-related travel to a conference that's no longer happening). Trying to cancel online offers me an eVoucher less a $7 fee. If I can get an actual refund by calling, I will, but I don't know if I want to spend the time waiting for an agent if all I'll get is an eVoucher with an extra $7 on it.


I cancelled two BOGO (buy one, get one) tickets yesterday and got a full refund. I chose eVouchers since I know I'll be taking trains later this year. I did call, and luckily did not have a long wait to talk to an agent. I called around 5:45 eastern.


----------



## Bob Dylan

The City of Austin has just issued a ban on activities that are held in Venues that have a capacity of 2,500 or more persons until May 1st!

This applies to all such places in the the City of Austin but does not include Travis County ( the Annual Rodeo starts next week)and the University of Texas ( where I work).

So far, 2 persons have tested positive for the Virus in the Greater Austin Area( 2 1/2 Million Population), one person in Travis County and one Dell Employee who traveled FROM Austin to India where he resides and is in isolation.


----------



## Johanna

Johanna said:


> Can anyone confirm whether this is true even of Saver fares? I have a ticket for later this month that I won't be using (work-related travel to a conference that's no longer happening). Trying to cancel online offers me an eVoucher less a $7 fee. If I can get an actual refund by calling, I will, but I don't know if I want to spend the time waiting for an agent if all I'll get is an eVoucher with an extra $7 on it.



Well, in case anyone's interested in how this went: I called 1-800-USA-RAIL, and (stupidly) cancelled the reservation through Julie the robot. She said she could give me an eVoucher, which I told her was fine - she didn't mention anything about a cancellation fee, but a few minutes later, the eVoucher showed up in my inbox...for the fare less $7. 

I called back and asked for Customer Relations. I got through right away, but they said that for my situation I'd have to be transferred to the Refunds department, for which there was a 10-minute wait. The Refunds agent offered to issue me a second eVoucher for $7. I asked if it was possible to get an actual refund, and he said he couldn't process that for me, but that he could send me back to Customer Relations. Having had enough by this point, I said I'd just take the eVouchers. I'll use them for something, I'm sure. (Unless we really are on the brink of the apocalypse, in which case I've got bigger things to worry about than a few dollars in Amtrak credit.)


----------



## AmtrakBlue

It took me a bit to bypass Julie, but I did because I didn't trust the computer to give me a full refund....I doubt they'll expend the time/energy updating the code to handle this temporary event.


----------



## Johanna

AmtrakBlue said:


> It took me a bit to bypass Julie, but I did because I didn't trust the computer to give me a full refund....I doubt they'll expend the time/energy updating the code to handle this temporary event.


I shouldn't have trusted her either, in hindsight, but I thought I'd give her a try. I guess I assumed that at some point, she'd say something like "Your reservation is subject to a cancellation fee of $7, so your eVoucher will be for $(X-7). Are you sure you want to go through with this?" - similar to the cancellation process on the website - so when she didn't mention a fee, I got overly hopeful. 

Even in the best of times, it seems problematic that Julie is set up to charge fees without telling you about them, but hey, it's Amtrak.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Johanna said:


> I shouldn't have trusted her either, in hindsight, but I thought I'd give her a try. I guess I assumed that at some point, she'd say something like "Your reservation is subject to a cancellation fee of $7, so your eVoucher will be for $(X-7). Are you sure you want to go through with this?" - similar to the cancellation process on the website - so when she didn't mention a fee, I got overly hopeful. Even in the best of times, it seems problematic that Julie is set up to charge fees without telling you about them, but hey, it's Amtrak.


I'm glad you had your penalty fee credited during this unique window of special exceptions, but in the era of binding arbitration businesses are disincentivized to worry about adherence to clear terms and fair dealing practices. I would not expect Amtrak to continue crediting Julie related charges after SARS-2 passes.


----------



## MARC Rider

A lot more empty seats out of NYP in the FC car of 2167 this evening. And this is a 5PM departure from New York.


----------



## wordsmith

Happy to report that I spoke with a very friendly and helpful Amtrak agent today. Given the circumstances, I had to cancel a long distance biz/pleasure trip for this month and wasn't in a position to rebook yet. Though the trip was imminent, she refunded all points to my account (one leg) and the entirety of my purchase to my credit card (second leg). Pleased with Amtrak's response and will not hesitate to rebook once things have "settled down" a bit. This is the kind of response that builds brand loyalty.


----------



## jis

I just canceled my trip to the Washington DC area later this month for two meetings including the RPA Spring Meeting. I had to call an Agent to get the cancellation fee waived. There was a ten minute wait on the telephone, but once I got to an Agent it was pretty straightforward, and the complete fare for the two Sleeper tickets was credited to my credit card, to be deposited there in seven to ten days I was told.


----------



## Chey

Qapla said:


> I got this in my email today - I have a trip booked for July that I booked in Feb



Strange - I booked a trip back in November for a trip in early May - no email from Amtrak. I wonder why...


----------



## pennyk

Chey said:


> Strange - I booked a trip back in November for a trip in early May - no email from Amtrak. I wonder why...


I have trips booked for March, May and October and did not receive an email from Amtrak or AGR.


----------



## Chey

pennyk said:


> I have trips booked for March, May and October and did not receive an email from Amtrak or AGR.



I wonder how they determine who needs to get that email - OTOH, I probably don't want to know!

Among the conflicting 'facts' I've heard about this virus is that it's not heat resistant so I'm inclined to wait a little longer before I decide a cancellation is needed. This was going to be a fun trip and I was looking forward to it.

So have you made any changes to your own plans? I know you love trains as much as I do, probably more.


----------



## DonNewcomb

Chey said:


> I wonder how they determine who needs to get that email - ......


No idea. It's been a couple of years since I rode Amtrak and I got the e-mail today. Alphabetic? Numeric?


----------



## Chey

DonNewcomb said:


> No idea. It's been a couple of years since I rode Amtrak and I got the e-mail today. Alphabetic? Numeric?



LOL! I just NOW got the email! Glad to have it but I'm think I'm still going to wait till the end of April before I make that decision.


----------



## pennyk

Chey said:


> I wonder how they determine who needs to get that email - OTOH, I probably don't want to know!
> 
> Among the conflicting 'facts' I've heard about this virus is that it's not heat resistant so I'm inclined to wait a little longer before I decide a cancellation is needed. This was going to be a fun trip and I was looking forward to it.
> 
> So have you made any changes to your own plans? I know you love trains as much as I do, probably more.


I am supposed to leave 2 weeks from today to go to NYC for one night then join a group in Boston with a day trip to Brunwick, ME. This will be my first overnight trip this year (and I usually travel once a month). I hope I am able to travel because I really want to go. I am over 60, but healthy, so I am one risk factor. On the positive side, if I go, my NYC hotel likely will be less than half the cost it was when I first made my reservation.
I did not get the email this afternoon. I have no idea why I did not receive it. Maybe I am "special."


----------



## Railroad Bill

As things continue to deteriorate, especially in state of Washington, we are considering cancelling our Amtrak EB trip to Seattle in May and the return trip as well. Ohio is also now closing down venues that involve large crowds. Not sure if or when CLE may have restrictions placed on travel?


----------



## TinCan782

Here we go...
_Amtrak to reduce routes, roll out voluntary leave program as coronavirus cuts train travel in half _
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busi...0200311-knwruqbynrehbkda4xygcndz7u-story.html


----------



## chakk

FrensicPic said:


> Here we go...
> _Amtrak to reduce routes, roll out voluntary leave program as coronavirus cuts train travel in half _
> https://www.chicagotribune.com/busi...0200311-knwruqbynrehbkda4xygcndz7u-story.html



can't read this story without paying $$$ to the Chicago Tribune


----------



## pennyk

chakk said:


> can't read this story without paying $$$ to the Chicago Tribune


here are the first 2 paragraphs


> Amtrak told employees Wednesday it will “significantly” reduce service and offer an unpaid voluntary leave program as bookings on the national railroad drop 50% in the wake of the growing coronavirus outbreak.
> 
> The memo, which was obtained by the Tribune, said cancellations are up 300% and ridership has “declined sharply” in the Northeast and across Amtrak’s national network, with those trends accelerating in recent days.


----------



## jis

pennyk said:


> I am supposed to leave 2 weeks from today to go to NYC for one night then join a group in Boston with a day trip to Brunwick, ME.


NY State may most likely have 2000 or more cases by the time you get there, mostly concentrated around New York City. In areas where community spreading is happening the numbers are doubling every 4 to 5 days.


----------



## pennyk

jis said:


> NY State may most likely have 2000 or more cases by the time you get there, mostly concentrated around New York City. In areas where community spreading is happening the numbers are doubling every 4 yo 6 days.



Thanks. I was afraid that would happen. I saw the mayor of Boston interviewed earlier and Boston has many cases. I expressed my concern to our friend. I am guessing the OTOL fest will not be canceled but there may be a only few participants (all of whom are under 60).


----------



## Thirdrail7

While this is a Chicago based article, this is the situation that can occur across the system:




> Amtrak has temporarily suspended three trains that operate between New York and Washington due to lower demand. There have been no route reductions out of Chicago’s Union Station, Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said. That could change, however.
> 
> “More than half of the Amtrak service in Chicago is state sponsored and before we would make any changes in that service, we’ll have discussions with the state transportation departments in Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan,” which provide funding for the routes, Magliari said.



Some cancellations that have been floated are state-supported services. You can't cancel them without communicating with the state. However, the Long Distance network and the NEC can be altered without much blowback. 

I would expect a cut to the Acela service and some of the regionals but things will get interesting when it comes to the LD network. I can see them hacking away at potions of it as well.


----------



## jis

pennyk said:


> Thanks. I was afraid that would happen. I saw the mayor of Boston interviewed earlier and Boston has many cases. I expressed my concern to our friend. I am guessing the OTOL fest will not be canceled but there may be a only few participants (all of whom are under 60).


During these episodes my biggest worry is always getting stranded at some odd place for weeks due to sudden placement of travel restrictions.

For example, effective tomorrow India has canceled all visas and all visa free facilities even for Overseas Citizens for travel from the US to India. Initially they had forgotten to create an exception for those who are residents in India, so if one is an US citizen OCI resident in India, but in the US for a short visit, they could not get back to their home in India until April 15th (hopefully). Fortunately someone brought this to the attention of the Indian Ministry of External Affairs, and they revised the restriction (though not updated in their Consular Section web page). But while this one got fixed, in the hustle and bustle, who knows what can inadvertently become the regulation of the day?

And now that President Trump has just announced ban on travel from Europe minus UK to the US for a month ....

Granted that travel restriction within the US is improbable, but it could happen if things get really bad, though very unlikely by the end of this month.


----------



## Emrys

wordsmith said:


> Happy to report that I spoke with a very friendly and helpful Amtrak agent today. Given the circumstances, I had to cancel a long distance biz/pleasure trip for this month and wasn't in a position to rebook yet. Though the trip was imminent, she refunded all points to my account (one leg) and the entirety of my purchase to my credit card (second leg). Pleased with Amtrak's response and will not hesitate to rebook once things have "settled down" a bit. This is the kind of response that builds brand loyalty.



That was my experience as well, with a trip coming up next week. I was floored by how quickly I got through to an agent (less than a minute hold time), and then again when transferred to guest rewards. Even though my entire trip was paid for by points, the phone call took about 3 minutes, every point was refunded, and the points were back in my account within 10. 

I had expected upwards of an hour hold time, and figured my chances of reaching an agent who had never heard of the temporary change waiver was about 50/50. This was surprisingly efficient, friendly service by Amtrak.


----------



## Chey

chakk said:


> can't read this story without paying $$$ to the Chicago Tribune



https://www.bing.com/search?q=amtrak reducing route&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=amtrak reducing route&sc=0-21&sk=&cvid=4BE71BEA91374607862E206674C64542

Also:
http://www.videtteonline.com/news/a...cle_3fabb7ce-63fd-11ea-a452-072da12d88bc.html


----------



## suzgor

Just cancelled our trip on the Auto Train at the end of May. Have been making that trip to and from Florida for years. My husband and I are healthy--in our 70's & 80's--but just didn't want to gamble with our lives. Cancellation was a snap. Part was paid with points, spoke with only one person and transaction was finished in 3 minutes. Placed the call at 7:39 AM. Speaking of gambling with our lives--we're driving north instead.


----------



## Samsbigtrip

jis said:


> And now that President Trump has just announced ban on travel from Europe minus UK to the US for a month ....



I'm due to fly from London to Seattle in May and then take the Empire Builder to Chicago. I booked online it in December.
Two things:
1) I haven't yet heard from Amtrak.
2) I'm wondering how long it will be before flights from the UK will also be banned.
3) I haven't cancelled anything yet because I am optimistic.
4) I have also booked a trip to Italy in September, about which I am not so optimistic, but I have paid only for the flights with BA and I know I will get either a refund or a credit.

However we feel about our travel plans being disrupted, we should not forget those who have died, and the loss to their friends and families.


----------



## Samsbigtrip

jis said:


> NY State may most likely have 2000 or more cases by the time you get there, mostly concentrated around New York City.



My trip from London involves 6 flights (the first into Seattle), 45 hours on the Empire Builder, 4 hotels, 2 coaches, several taxis, an AirBNB staying with friends in Norfolk and in Greenwich CT and a tour of the empty Metropolitan Museum in NY.

Bad timing?


----------



## BLNT

Emrys said:


> That was my experience as well, with a trip coming up next week. I was floored by how quickly I got through to an agent (less than a minute hold time), and then again when transferred to guest rewards. Even though my entire trip was paid for by points, the phone call took about 3 minutes, every point was refunded, and the points were back in my account within 10.
> 
> I had expected upwards of an hour hold time, and figured my chances of reaching an agent who had never heard of the temporary change waiver was about 50/50. This was surprisingly efficient, friendly service by Amtrak.



I wonder what kind of cancellation level there has been. I just looked at our AT trip a couple weeks out from now and there's more sleeper availability (not lower price though...), and all of a sudden there are multiple priority offloading spots available that haven't been there for months!


----------



## jis

Samsbigtrip said:


> I'm due to fly from London to Seattle in May and then take the Empire Builder to Chicago. I booked online it in December.
> Two things:
> 1) I haven't yet heard from Amtrak.
> 2) I'm wondering how long it will be before flights from the UK will also be banned.
> 3) I haven't cancelled anything yet because I am optimistic.
> 4) I have also booked a trip to Italy in September, about which I am not so optimistic, but I have paid only for the flights with BA and I know I will get either a refund or a credit.
> 
> However we feel about our travel plans being disrupted, we should not forget those who have died, and the loss to their friends and families.


Flights have not been banned. Travel to US by certain large classes of people has been banned. This will lead to massive flights suspension since there is no point in flying empty planes around. It is similar to what was done about travel from China and the result of that in flight cancellations can be used as a guide for what might happen.

Given Amtrak's message yesterday about unspecified imminent reductions in service and furloughing of possibly a significant chunk of employees, we won't know how services will be curtailed until Amtrak comes around to announce them.

All indications at present are things will get much much worse over the next month or two before they start turning better. But with these things one never knows until it actually comes to pass.


----------



## Qapla

jis said:


> with these things one never knows until it actually comes to pass.



That's why we are waiting a little before cancelling our trip in July ...


----------



## Devil's Advocate

chakk said:


> can't read this story without paying $$$ to the Chicago Tribune


It's only 99¢ for the first three months and $2 per week thereafter, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. We really need to let go of this free lunch mentality when it comes to accessing the news.



jis said:


> This will lead to massive flights suspension since there is no point in flying empty planes around.


Looks like we can finally say goodbye to the so-called ghost flights that have been flying empty (or nearly so) for weeks as a means of maintaining restricted slot access. Slot forfeiture rules have finally been suspended, which is good news for the airlines and the environment, but bad news for affected employees who are likely to be furloughed en mass.


----------



## jis

Devil's Advocate said:


> Looks like we can finally say goodbye to the so-called ghost flights that have been flying empty (or nearly so) for weeks as a means of maintaining restricted slot access. Slot forfeiture rules have finally been suspended, which is good news for the airlines and the environment, but bad news for affected employees who are likely to be furloughed en mass.


For those that are unfamiliar with "ghost flights" and why they exist...

https://www.fastcompany.com/9047615...s-now-we-need-to-rethink-the-future-of-flying


----------



## Qapla

Devil's Advocate said:


> t's only 99¢ for the first three months and $2 per week thereafter, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. We really need to let go of this free lunch mentality when it comes to accessing the news.



If I had to pay that much for all the various news outlets I visit it would cost me a monthly payment or par with my electric bill ... I'll stick to those that are free.



Now, back to the original topic .... how many trains may be curtailed in some way we have yet to see


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Qapla said:


> If I had to pay that much for all the various news outlets I visit it would cost me a monthly payment or par with my electric bill ... I'll stick to those that are free.



Before the internet, would you have subscribed to “all the various news outlets”?


----------



## tricia

Qapla said:


> If I had to pay that much for all the various news outlets I visit it would cost me a monthly payment or par with my electric bill ... I'll stick to those that are free.



Or perhaps choose a few that are reliable and worth it to you? If we want reporters to put time in to tracking down information and presenting it to us, someone's gotta pay them.


----------



## Qapla

AmtrakBlue said:


> Before the internet, would you have subscribed to “all the various news outlets”?



Since my wife works for a newspaper ... I would not need to

However, before the Internet I got my news from TV and Radio ...both by means of free broadcast over antenna .... not paid cable - cable in my area is a fairly new thing


----------



## Rasputin

I got a message this morning that my conference on April 2 and 3 has been cancelled. That did not involve Amtrak travel.

I am scheduled to attend a conference mid-May which does involve Amtrak travel. I haven't heard anything about that conference yet. Most of the cancellations I have seen so far involve things scheduled in March or April.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Swedish evening paper, Aftonbladet, has an article (unfortunately behind a pay wall which I am not paying for - see I'm staying on topic) saying that planes are safer than trains or buses (should that be busses?) during our little pandademic.


----------



## TinCan782

As for the "pay wall" news sites: clear your cookies and the number of views starts over.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

The one in Sweden requires a subscription to view, period, no matter what.


----------



## pennyk

I just called Amtrak to cancel 4 upcoming reservations for the end of March. I spoke to a very competent AGR agent. Since I am Select Executive, I use the "special" number whether my reservation is using points or cash. I will receive a full refund on my credit card for 3 (sleepers and BC) of the 4 reservations and a full refund on a voucher for my 4th reservation (which was a Saver fare on the Acela).


----------



## pennyk

Chey said:


> So have you made any changes to your own plans? I know you love trains as much as I do, probably more.



I went ahead and canceled. I really wanted to go on this trip, but I really really really knew I should not. I canceled today so I do not have to stress over or dwell on it any more.


----------



## MikeM

I'm really struggling myself on this one... I had a trip at the end of this month to Chicago and the meeting I was attending has been cancelled due to virus concerns. Part of me would just love to take the trip for no particular reason and relax, then fly back home; but I'd feel really stupid if I did a throw away trip and ended up sick. Yikes.


----------



## tim49424

pennyk said:


> I went ahead and canceled. I really wanted to go on this trip, but I really really really knew I should not. I canceled today so I do not have to stress over or dwell on it any more.



I have a trip to Kansas City in early May, Penny, and I’m struggling with that same inner debate. I’ve not cancelled yet but I’m quite certain that eventually I will unless Amtrak and/or Major League Baseball beat me to the punch. I really hate that scenario but I’d rather be safe than sorry!


----------



## DonNewcomb

The virus' impact seems to be strongly correlated to age and immune system. Children (those pestilential little vectors of contagion) can carry the virus with seemingly few symptoms. Young adults have described their symptoms as being like a case of jet lag. As the victims get older it's a high fever and dry cough. For the aged and immune compromised it can be deadly. Of course, everything is on a bell curve and you can find results all over the map.


----------



## SarahZ

MikeM said:


> Part of me would just love to take the trip for no particular reason and relax, then fly back home; but I'd feel really stupid if I did a throw away trip and ended up sick. Yikes.


This is where I am. I don’t want to become sick while away from home, but more than that, I want to be a good human.

I would feel terribly guilty if I were a carrier and passed it on to those at high risk. It doesn’t make sense for me to be as passionate as I am about vaccines and then turn around and ignore all of the recommendations to stay home, away from crowds. I’d feel horribly selfish and hypocritical.

Additionally, while my asthma is not chronic and rarely requires medication, I haven’t seen enough research/evidence to suggest that this wouldn’t knock me for a loop. I know how my body handles bronchitis and pneumonia (no hospitalization required), but why risk it?


----------



## Bob Dylan

tim49424 said:


> I have a trip to Kansas City in early May, Penny, and I’m struggling with that same inner debate. I’ve not cancelled yet but I’m quite certain that eventually I will unless Amtrak and/or Major League Baseball beat me to the punch. I really hate that scenario but I’d rather be safe than sorry!


I'd wait and see what happens with the Pandemic at least till the middle of April Tim.

You can call and Cancel right now with No Penalities, buy who knows about May???


----------



## tim49424

Bob Dylan said:


> I'd wait and see what happens with the Pandemic at least till the middle of April Tim.
> 
> You can call and Cancel right now with No Penalities, buy who knows about May???



The policy is if you make your reservation before April 30, they will refund with no penalties, Jim. That being said, your timeline suggestion is spot on, I'm not going to make any rash decisions currently. Anyway, who knows what's going to happen in a month's time?


----------



## west point

The worry that you become a carrier is real. If I was even indirectly exposed would probably not get around those who are immune compromised.


----------



## tim49424

west point said:


> The worry that you become a carrier is real. If I was even indirectly exposed would probably not get around those who are immune compromised.



That is the real tricky part....how does one know they’re a carrier? We, as a society (in AU members cases, a train riding society) should consider everyone to be a carrier...let sensible paranoia prevail and stay away from those you speak of. For those who are in that aforementioned group, this is not the time to experience train travel.


----------



## Bob Dylan

tim49424 said:


> That is the real tricky part....how does one know they’re a carrier? We, as a society (in AU members cases, a train riding society) should consider everyone to be a carrier...let sensible paranoia prevail and stay away from those you speak of. For those who are in that aforementioned group, this is not the time to experience train travel.


I cancelled my trip on the Eagle to DFW next week. ( I'm 76)Dallas has the most cases of the Virus in Texas and more being reported as I write.


----------



## tim49424

Bob Dylan said:


> I cancelled my trip on the Eagle to DFW next week. ( I'm 76)Dallas has the most cases of the Virus in Texas and more being reported as I write.



Yeah you’re at an age where you’re more vulnerable. A very smart move on your part. I didn’t realize you were 76. No wonder you type so funny sometimes! LOL In all seriousness, however, stay safe buddy, keep washing your hands and staying away from crowds and don’t let the “famous moron” get to you!


----------



## Lacunacoil

I'm on auto train. Seems like maybe 25% cancelled based on empty seats vs empty seats usually. Everyone has there own two seats. Lady across coughing alot. I was to lazy to move because I stayed in lounge. At bedtime she wasnt coughing.


----------



## Rasputin

The popular café and tap room at the station at Lamy has temporarily closed during the virus emergency but the station will be open for Amtrak passengers:

https://mailchi.mp/653f8f2665ec/blu...f-captain-butch-basinski-2592312?e=5625f9e50f

Can't allow too much success on Amtrak anyway:

https://www.santafenewmexican.com/n...cle_0bb878d2-6301-11ea-b178-0f892ae9eb7e.html


----------



## Railroad Bill

Bob Dylan said:


> I cancelled my trip on the Eagle to DFW next week. ( I'm 76)Dallas has the most cases of the Virus in Texas and more being reported as I write.


Stay safe Jim. We are in the process of cancelling our trips in May to SEA and back. With our health issues it is not a good idea to be in Seattle at this time.


----------



## TinCan782

We are still in a "wait and see" mode for summer trips on the Sunset Limited, Empire Builder and Coast Starlight.


----------



## DonNewcomb

No trains involved but we're scheduled for a vacation tour of Greece right after Easter. Expecting to hear an update from the tour company any moment. We paid big bucks for trip insurance but those policies aren't intended to cover wars or pandemics, just the normal stuff. I'm worried that we may end up out just shy of $10K.


----------



## Barb Stout

Rasputin said:


> The popular café and tap room at the station at Lamy has temporarily closed during the virus emergency but the station will be open for Amtrak passengers:
> 
> https://mailchi.mp/653f8f2665ec/blu...f-captain-butch-basinski-2592312?e=5625f9e50f
> 
> Can't allow too much success on Amtrak anyway:
> 
> https://www.santafenewmexican.com/n...cle_0bb878d2-6301-11ea-b178-0f892ae9eb7e.html


Well, hopefully they'll work it out. Sounds like the tavern leased it from another company.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

I haven't cancelled any trips but by odd coincidence I also hadn't booked any when SARS-2 came knocking. At first it was tempting to look for deep discounts to areas with limited exposure but then they started cancelling flights and closing borders. So I'm just waiting to see what happens like everyone else. Meanwhile the mostly empty office feels like a scene from _Night of the Comet_. I wonder if we'll still have jobs after months of sudden and severe economic contraction finish taking their toll.


----------



## tricia

My next Amtrak trip is scheduled for July. I'm still assuming we'll be good to go by then--will cancel later if need be.

Meanwhile, I'm organizing a large event for November--and already getting queries about cancellation policy. The venue we've rented has cancelled, into April, all events where more than 250 people are expected. Economic contraction indeed.


----------



## Chey

pennyk said:


> I went ahead and canceled. I really wanted to go on this trip, but I really really really knew I should not. I canceled today so I do not have to stress over or dwell on it any more.



Hard decision - but a wise one.

I'm going to wait till the last week of March to decide. The trip's in May, from FTW to TUS. Right now it seems reasonably safe but who knows what's going to happen down the road.


----------



## me_little_me

We had a Corona incident on our train but the guys involved drank it all before the conductor showed up!


----------



## niemi24s

Sorry to say I've no planned or already booked trips to blather on about, but only this 10-day old item nobody seems to have linked: https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2 It's List N contains about 84 products which are "The EPA-registered surface disinfectant products on our Disinfectants for Use Against SARS-CoV-2 list have qualified under EPA's emerging viral pathogen program for use against SARS-CoV-2, a coronavirus that causes COVID-19."


----------



## Thirdrail7

Keep on eye on the website. Service adjustments are probably coming.


----------



## lordsigma

CTDOT just announced that the Springfield line is going to a 7 day a week Saturday schedule until further notice. Their announcement applies to both the CTrail commuter rail and Amtrak service on the line. Given that the Amtrak service on the SPG line is timed to connect to the NEC id suspect an announcement anytime that the NEC is going to a Saturday schedule 7 days per week.


----------



## flitcraft

I plan to cancel my April trip later today. Honestly, I'd concluded that I needed to cancel some days ago as the situation in Seattle has gotten more dire, but I have had more pressing things to attend to, like learning to teach online with some semblance of effectiveness.


----------



## SarahZ

flitcraft said:


> I plan to cancel my April trip later today. Honestly, I'd concluded that I needed to cancel some days ago as the situation in Seattle has gotten more dire, but I have had more pressing things to attend to, like learning to teach online with some semblance of effectiveness.


(Off-topic)

What subject do you teach?


----------



## lordsigma

I have april May and June trips scheduled. Not planning to cancel any just yet. They seem to be waiving change fees as long as the virus as an issue and I have premium accommodations for the latter two trips so no change fees anyway.


----------



## PRR 60

Thirdrail7 said:


> Keep on eye on the website. Service adjustments are probably coming.


Looks like Acela weekday service is going to what looks like a modification of the regular weekend schedule, including carrying the 22XX numbers for most of the trains. That is a substantial seat reduction. 16 round trips to 5 for New York - Washington.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

PRR 60 said:


> Looks like Acela weekday service is going to what looks like a modification of the regular weekend schedule, including carrying the 22XX numbers for most of the trains. That is a substantial seat reduction. 16 round trips to 5 for New York - Washington.



I also saw mention on FB all of the NEC is in a Saturday schedule.


----------



## lordsigma

Looks like the change takes effect this Monday. Tonight - Sunday have a Normal schedule. Starting Monday it’s a modified Saturday schedule 7 days per week.


----------



## lordsigma

lordsigma said:


> CTDOT just announced that the Springfield line is going to a 7 day a week Saturday schedule until further notice. Their announcement applies to both the CTrail commuter rail and Amtrak service on the line. Given that the Amtrak service on the SPG line is timed to connect to the NEC id suspect an announcement anytime that the NEC is going to a Saturday schedule 7 days per week.



Technically for the SPG line its a modified Saturday schedule as there will just be one through regional round trip - 147 south and 140 north.


----------



## riderails

More info. Dated Mar. 13, '20:
*TRAIN #15 CANCELLED DUE TO COVID-19 (CORONAVIRUS) [From Via Rail]*
This is Via Rail Haiifax to Montreal. Oddly to me, no notice to date of Mont to Hal cancellation. (I'd previously cancelled all Via Rail travel.)


----------



## MARC Rider

tricia said:


> Meanwhile, I'm organizing a large event for November--and already getting queries about cancellation policy. The venue we've rented has cancelled, into April, all events where more than 250 people are expected. Economic contraction indeed.


Maybe the silver lining out of this cloud is that the travel industry will go back to having more flexible (for the traveler) cancellation policies. It might mean that prices are a little higher, but if you have to buy extra travel insurance, you're already paying a higher price.


----------



## tricia

MARC Rider said:


> Maybe the silver lining out of this cloud is that the travel industry will go back to having more flexible (for the traveler) cancellation policies. It might mean that prices are a little higher, but if you have to buy extra travel insurance, you're already paying a higher price.



Well, that only works if the companies in question stay in business.  We probably shouldn't worry about the airlines (or Amtrak) on that front, since they'll likely get government bailouts. However, I won't hold my breath expecting their "flexible cancellation policies" to continue beyond the current crisis. 

We SHOULD be worried about smaller businesses remaining in business after absorbing losses from the current combination of drop in income with continuing ongoing expenses.


----------



## jis

tricia said:


> Well, that only works if the companies in question stay in business.  We probably shouldn't worry about the airlines (or Amtrak) on that front, since they'll likely get government bailouts. However, I won't hold my breath expecting their "flexible cancellation policies" to continue beyond the current crisis.


I also doubt that it will last across the board. But such relaxation of policy based on specific events for specific markets is nothing new for the airlines. They have been doing it for many years. The outright cancellation with cash/credit refund is more unusual, but cancellation for fee free reuse is not unusual at all.


----------



## Suze10860

I really need to give a shout-out to the Amtrak customer Service I just encountered on the phone.

We have a trip planned on the Lake Shore Limited from New York to Chicago, round-trip, roomette - April 4 through April 9. My attitude since the start of all of this craziness is that the only way we would NOT be taking this trip is if the train itself were cancelled or travel was in some other way banned or restricted.

Well, obviously things are getting a lot more "real" in so many aspects of life, we're starting to think that we might actually have to make the decision to cancel...but honestly, I'm not ready to pull that lever yet. I want to wait it out a bit longer.

So I called Amtrak to ask how close to the actual travel we could cancel. Know what I was told? We had until 3:40 p.m. on April 4 to cancel. She had pulled up my reservation from my phone number, and saw that this was the time our train left. She told me we could cancel right up to that time. (I asked her twice about that because it seems crazy.)

And she told me that we would absolutely get a 100% refund (if that's what I decide I want...it might end up being some type of re-booking.)

She was so nice and helpful. Great customer service experience!

Now to call the Hilton in Chicago to see how lenient they are.


----------



## BLNT

From CNN: *Domestic Travel Restrictions Considered* --- including: _There are preliminary conversations about halting some air or train travel between some major US cities as a potential additional step going forward.
_
RT flight Orlando to DC next Thursday... and RT AutoTrain at the end of the month.

Now, none of those would be considered "major" cities, right! !!

Oh fun


----------



## Bob Dylan

BLNT said:


> From CNN: *Domestic Travel Restrictions Considered* --- including: _There are preliminary conversations about halting some air or train travel between some major US cities as a potential additional step going forward.
> _
> RT flight Orlando to DC next Thursday... and RT AutoTrain at the end of the month.
> 
> Now, none of those would be considered "major" cities, right! !!
> 
> Oh fun


Last time I checked, DC was considered a MAJOR World City, and isnt Orlando now the most visited City in the US after New York??


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Bob Dylan said:


> Last time I checked, DC was considered a MAJOR World City, and isnt Orlando now the most visited City in the US after New York??



Pretty sure that was sarcasm.


----------



## BLNT

crescent-zephyr said:


> Pretty sure that was sarcasm.



Yeppers


----------



## west point

Restrict travel in the US ? Next step is martial law ?


----------



## Traxryder

At the present time we know how the virus spreads. Is it safe to travel in the deluxe sleepers (with bathroom inside the room) on the auto train? 
Someone at Amtrak explained to me that the air in each train car is circulated through all the rooms and there is no way to protect oneself against germs in such a setting.
If this is really true, why hasn’t Amtrak provided filters at the air intakes to each room - or have they? 
Is it safe to travel on Amtrak in the private room sleepers?


----------



## Sauve850

Lacunacoil said:


> I'm on auto train. Seems like maybe 25% cancelled based on empty seats vs empty seats usually. Everyone has there own two seats. Lady across coughing alot. I was to lazy to move because I stayed in lounge. At bedtime she wasnt coughing.



Lots of people cough. A smoker or blood pressure medicine perhaps.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Sauve850 said:


> Lots of people cough. A smoker or blood pressure medicine perhaps.



Me - sinus drip not from a cold or flu


----------



## Sauve850

AmtrakBlue said:


> Me - sinus drip not from a cold or flu



Yes that's another one.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

MARC Rider said:


> Maybe the silver lining out of this cloud is that the travel industry will go back to having more flexible (for the traveler) cancellation policies. It might mean that prices are a little higher, but if you have to buy extra travel insurance, you're already paying a higher price.


The silver lining I was hoping to see were mandated sick days to help bring our employment protections in line with other industrialized democracies, but that does not appear to be on the cards.


----------



## RichieRich

Traxryder said:


> Someone at Amtrak explained to me that the air in each train car is circulated through all the rooms and there is no way to protect oneself against germs in such a setting.


I have always, for years, brought pizza-box-tops to duck tape over the ceiling vent...mainly to stop the blowing.


----------



## chakk

Samsbigtrip said:


> I'm due to fly from London to Seattle in May and then take the Empire Builder to Chicago. I booked online it in December.
> Two things:
> 1) I haven't yet heard from Amtrak.
> 2) I'm wondering how long it will be before flights from the UK will also be banned.
> 3) I haven't cancelled anything yet because I am optimistic.
> 4) I have also booked a trip to Italy in September, about which I am not so optimistic, but I have paid only for the flights with BA and I know I will get either a refund or a credit.
> 
> However we feel about our travel plans being disrupted, we should not forget those who have died, and the loss to their friends and families.



Only took 72 hours to cancel incoming flights from UK and Ireland, also.


----------



## Traxryder

RichieRich said:


> I have always, for years, brought pizza-box-tops to duck tape over the ceiling vent...mainly to stop the blowing.



Wow, great idea! Thanks!


----------



## ArtF

I'm a docent at the CSRM and a narrator on the CA Zephyr. We were just notified on 3/14 that the museum is now closed due to the virus, and that the Amtrak narrator service between Sacramento and Reno has been suspended. We had one team on the Train #5 who will be back today 3/15. After that we are to stand down and await developments. The museum in Old Town Sacramento is closed as are all associated programs such as those for school children. BTW, much of OTS is also shut down. Also, most if not all of the museums in the Sacramento have closed.


----------



## greatwestern

Samsbigtrip said:


> I'm due to fly from London to Seattle in May and then take the Empire Builder to Chicago. I booked online it in December.
> Two things:
> 1) I haven't yet heard from Amtrak.
> 2) I'm wondering how long it will be before flights from the UK will also be banned.
> 3) I haven't cancelled anything yet because I am optimistic.
> 4) I have also booked a trip to Italy in September, about which I am not so optimistic, but I have paid only for the flights with BA and I know I will get either a refund or a credit.
> 
> However we feel about our travel plans being disrupted, we should not forget those who have died, and the loss to their friends and families.




I WAS due to fly into PDX from UK 23rd March and back home from Chicago on 30th March travelling on Amtrak PDX - Sacramento - Chicago in Roomette/Bedroom.

I have had no contact from Amtrak (did not expect individual contact) and trying to cancel my booking online I was only offered the standard E-voucher less $250.

I bit the bullet and phoned from the UK and spoke to an Amtrak agent. As soon as the agent understood that I had to cancel because I was not able to reach the USA, she effected a FULL refund to my credit card. Very impressed.

I am due to come over again at the end of May for another Amtrak vacation (CHI-LAX-PDX-CHI). Probably going to be too early for restrictions to be lifted by then.

Already thinking (and hoping) that I will be able to re- book in 2021.


----------



## ArtF

AMTRAK-P42 said:


> Unfortunately, I do not believe The Zephyr offers narration during the winter as a norm. Its just summer months.


Yes, as an Amtrak narrator, we typically do work all year on most days. The California State Railroad Museum picks up the cost of our overnight stay in Reno. During the time of special events in Reno such as "Reno Air Races", the hotel prices are too high so we skip those dates. We take the eastbound #6 out of Sacramento around 11am arriving in Reno about 4 pm. The next morning, we take the west bound #5 at about 8:30 am arriving Sacramento around 2pm. If either train is more than 4 hours late, we have the option of skipping the eastbound train or taking the bus for the westbound leg. The busiest times appear to be the shoulder days before and after a major multiday holiday. Normal load is about 150 passengers, around 300 on peak days.


----------



## Bob Dylan

greatwestern said:


> I WAS due to fly into PDX from UK 23rd March and back home from Chicago on 30th March travelling on Amtrak PDX - Sacramento - Chicago in Roomette/Bedroom.
> 
> I have had no contact from Amtrak (did not expect individual contact) and trying to cancel my booking online I was only offered the standard E-voucher less $250.
> 
> I bit the bullet and phoned from the UK and spoke to an Amtrak agent. As soon as the agent understood that I had to cancel because I was not able to reach the USA, she effected a FULL refund to my credit card. Very impressed.
> 
> I am due to come over again at the end of May for another Amtrak vacation (CHI-LAX-PDX-CHI). Probably going to be too early for restrictions to be lifted by then.
> 
> Already thinking (and hoping) that I will be able to re- book in 2021.


When I cancelled my Roundtrip to Dallas on Amtrak( Dollars) this weekend (3/14), I only had to wait for a Live Agent about 1 Minute after getting past that pesky Julie.

The friendly,helpful Agent ( he was in Philly) asked me if I wanted a Voucher or a Full Refund to my Card, and took care of it in about 1 Minute!

He did tell me that the Call Center has been the busiest he has seen it in his many years with Amtrak( didnt say how many), with most people taking Full Refunds for LD and Regionall Trains, especially the NEC.


----------



## Thirdrail7

In terms of service levels, the NEC has been hit again. No Keystone Service between NYP-PHL, only 1 Acela round trip between WAS-NYP and 1 round trip between BOS-NYP, and with multiple 2-hour gaps in service. The two trains that run exclusively between NYP-WAS have eliminated the cafe car. 

The Winter Park Express has also ended.









Amtrak Advisory | Amtrak to Operate on Modified Schedules







www.amtrak.com







> Updates to Service
> March 15, 2020, 3:00 pm ET
> While Amtrak continues to operate across the nation, we have adjusted some services due to significantly reduced demand in key markets. Impacted services are as follows:
> 
> Northeast Corridor: Starting Monday, March 16, we will be operating approximately 40% of our typical weekday Northeast Corridor schedules. Our Northeast Regional and Acela service will still operate between Boston, New York, and Washington and Northeast Corridor services that extend into Virginia, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New York, Vermont, and other states will continue to operate but with some reductions in frequencies for certain markets referenced below.
> Keystone Service: In coordination with the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, starting Monday, March 16 through Sunday, March 29, Keystone Service will be operating on its Saturday schedule on a daily basis, between Harrisburg and Philadelphia only, with no service to the Ardmore, Paoli, Downingtown, Parkesburg, Coatesville and Exton Stations.
> Amtrak Hartford Line and Valley Flyer: Starting Monday, March 16, Amtrak Hartford Line and Valley Flyer Service will be operating on its Saturday schedule on a daily basis.
> New York State Service: Starting Sunday, March 15, the Maple Leaf will only operate between New York Penn and Niagara Falls, New York, and the Adirondack will only operate between New York Penn and Albany, New York. Empire Service between New York City and Albany continues as scheduled.
> Winter Park Express: The Winter Park Express is canceled for the rest of the season.
> Other services may also be impacted as circumstances change and Café service will be suspended on some trains operating between Washington DC and New York City.
> 
> Customers with reservations on trains that are being modified will be contacted and typically be accommodated on trains with similar departure times or another day.
> 
> Amtrak is waiving change fees on all existing or new reservations made before April 30, 2020. To change reservations, log in to your account or go to Modify Trip on Amtrak.com, or find your reservation from your account on the home screen in the Amtrak mobile app. A fare difference may apply to your new itinerary. If you want to cancel your reservation, you must call 800-USA-RAIL (not available via Amtrak.com or the app).


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

What is going on with Vancouver, BC service? I am booked on 517 Tuesday morning, but just received a cancellation notice. Are trains going to be running normally tomorrow? They're still showing as available, whereas Tuesday's trains are cancelled.


----------



## west point

Third rail your post does


----------



## Sauve850

RichieRich said:


> I have always, for years, brought pizza-box-tops to duck tape over the ceiling vent...mainly to stop the blowing.



I have used your advise from previous posts. Many thanks!


----------



## MikeM

The best advice I ever received from this board was Gaffers Tape. Official tape of Amtrak, fixes curtains, air vents, heat vents, rattling doors and all sorts of other issues. Doesn't do anything for the contemporary dining menu, but otherwise it's great. They should include it in the amenity kits they keep promising as part of the sleeper upgrades...


----------



## lordsigma

It looks like the Winter Park Express, Maple Leaf and Adirondack are the next victims of the coronavirus as far as basically being completely cut. The Maple Leaf has been truncated to NYP - NFL and the Adirondack truncated to a NYP - ALB which basically just makes them regular Empire Service trains.


----------



## junebug

tim49424 said:


> That is the real tricky part....how does one know they’re a carrier? We, as a society (in AU members cases, a train riding society) should consider everyone to be a carrier...let sensible paranoia prevail and stay away from those you speak of. For those who are in that aforementioned group, this is not the time to experience train travel.



Yeah, I bet a lot of us like me, are over 60. Even during regular times, traveling Amtrak doesn't feel very sanitary. I'm staying away for now, as much as I love train travel.


----------



## tim49424

junebug said:


> Yeah, I bet a lot of us like me, are over 60. Even during regular times, traveling Amtrak doesn't feel very sanitary. I'm staying away for now, as much as I love train travel.



I'm not quite 60 yet, less than two years away, and it may be a while before I'm back on a train. I have tickets to go to Kansas City to watch a couple of ballgames, but they're not likely to be played, thus I'll cancel when they do.


----------



## neroden

Thirdrail7 said:


> In terms of service levels, the NEC has been hit again. No Keystone Service between NYP-PHL, only 1 Acela round trip between WAS-NYP and 1 round trip between BOS-NYP, and with multiple 2-hour gaps in service. The two trains that run exclusively between NYP-WAS have eliminated the cafe car.
> 
> The Winter Park Express has also ended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak Advisory | Amtrak to Operate on Modified Schedules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.amtrak.com



It's not immediately obvious but this temporarily ends ALL service to Parkesburg and Coatesville, since SEPTA doesn't stop at those two stations. (The other stations skipped by the Keystone are served by SEPTA.)

The only other US stations to lose all service so far are those unique to the Adirondack, which tend to have extremely low ridership in the first place. (Well, and Winter Park, but the season was almost over anyway.)

With what's going on in Canada, I'm not surprised that the Maple Leaf and Adirondack border crossings have been cancelled. Via has cut the Canadian, the Ocean, the Jasper-Prince Rupert line, their half of the Maple Leaf, and over half of their corridor frequencies. GO has also cut Niagara train service though they're still running buses.


----------



## neroden

FWIW, we're staying at home now. Bitsy's in a high-risk group.


----------



## wwchi

haven't been on Amtrak for a bit either - we're driving between Chicago and St. Joe (and New Buffalo, MI)...I'm sure the conductors are noticing the absence of our regulars! :-(


----------



## lordsigma

I am not that familiar with the Adirondack's route, but I'm assuming based on the cut back to Albany that there is no real way to feasibly serve the northern New York stops and turn the train without crossing the border or the ridership at those stations doesn't justify?


----------



## jis

With an engine at both ends, it could be run push pull to Plattsburgh if there was any riders to be had.

BTW US airlines are cutting down domestic schedules to 50%-60% in April and are actively planning for a contingency where they terminate all domestic service.









Coronavirus forces airlines to consider a once unthinkable possibility — halting US flights


Airlines are slashing capacity around the world to confront the collapse in bookings as coronavirus spreads.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## desertflyer

Hello from a soon to be forced sheltered in place San Franciscan. I don't know if it is mentioned somewhere else in this thread, but Amtrak is doing full refunds on Saver Fares due to coronavirus, but only if you call them. Twitter support, the Amtrak website, and the app only give vouchers and not refunds. I called and had a full refund within 10 minutes.

Stay safe!


----------



## StanJazz

I had tickets to see the Cubs at Orioles on Apr 14 and Cubs at Nationals on Apr 17. Today Baseball delayed the start of the season until at least mid-May. Today I cancelled my Amtrak tickets for the Cardinal (Roomette) and the Northeast Corridor. I got a full refund to my credit card, even the Northeast Corridor trip which was non-refundable.


----------



## v v

desertflyer said:


> Hello from a soon to be forced sheltered in place San Franciscan. I don't know if it is mentioned somewhere else in this thread, but Amtrak is doing full refunds on Saver Fares due to coronavirus, but only if you call them. Twitter support, the Amtrak website, and the app only give vouchers and not refunds. I called and had a full refund within 10 minutes.
> 
> Stay safe!



May I ask what number you called, or is there only a single number?

Thank you


----------



## StanJazz

You call the regular number 1-800-USA-RAIL and say agent.


----------



## desertflyer

v v said:


> May I ask what number you called, or is there only a single number?
> 
> Thank you



As StanJazz says above, I called the 1-800-USA-RAIL (800-945-2028) number. It was quite surprising that there was no wait to speak with an agent, and no pushback on getting a refund. Twitter support had previously refused a refund and were very slow to respond.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

v v said:


> May I ask what number you called, or is there only a single number?
> 
> Thank you


I would suggest whatever number you've called in the past, since you're overseas. Just make sure you talk to an agent.


----------



## v v

thank you


----------



## lordsigma

I would suspect Amtrak’s direction now is to get some direction at the federal level from congress and the administration at what direction they’d like to see. They would likely want assurances of an additional operating subsidy to keep the trains rolling during this slump if the powers that be want Amtrak to keep operating.


----------



## chakk

lordsigma said:


> It looks like the Winter Park Express, Maple Leaf and Adirondack are the next victims of the coronavirus as far as basically being completely cut. The Maple Leaf has been truncated to NYP - NFL and the Adirondack truncated to a NYP - ALB which basically just makes them regular Empire Service trains.



Winter Park Express terminated because the ski resort has closed down


----------



## PRR 60

Keystone service and Pennsylvanian suspended effective Wednesday. March 18. 

Amtrak Advisory | Amtrak to Operate on Modified Schedules


----------



## lordsigma

Amtrak is going to be asking for a $1 billion bailout package as part of any coronavirus stimulus/bailout deal. Some funds would go direct to the company some would go to state supported route partner agencies. It’s probably going to come down to either they pass this billion dollar bailout or we get a complete suspension of all rail service until the crises passes. Amtrak, U.S. state rail agencies need $1 billion after coronavirus outbreak


----------



## Samsbigtrip

Metra Electric Rider said:


> trains or buses (should that be busses?)


'buses' is correct! But the more you wonder the worse it looks ;-)


----------



## Samsbigtrip

west point said:


> The worry that you become a carrier is real. If I was even indirectly exposed would probably not get around those who are immune compromised.


I have been 'socially distancing' for the past week (I'm in the UK, 71 years of age and healthy and haven't travelled anywhere recently) but, to my horror, my best friend who flew back from Spain last week was in the gym this morning. Are there no bounds to stupidity? <sigh> I won't be seeing her for a while!


----------



## Samsbigtrip

jis said:


> Flights have not been banned.


The US banned travel from Schengen area countries last week, with the ban since extended to cover the UK and Ireland from midnight 16 March. It will last for 30 days. :-(


----------



## v v

AmtrakBlue said:


> I would suggest whatever number you've called in the past, since you're overseas. Just make sure you talk to an agent.



We are still a bit chaotic at the moment ma'am, just trying to hurry our refund requests along.


----------



## nti1094

Just boarded San Joaquin 711 in Hanford, the first morning northbound, making a connection in Sacramento to the Zephyr. In the 30 something years I have been riding the San Joaquins, I have never seen this few passengers riding. It’s just me and a small handful of others. I have an entire Comet coach car to myself!


----------



## Tirnipgreen

Maybe NOW Amtrak will stop blocking passengers like sardines so that THEY (conductors) won't have to work so hard. I am not sure if The Carolinian ever had assigned seating south from Philadelphia, but we (passengers) were told to find our own seats in a specific car over the weekend. It was a refreshing change for me as the Crescent crews are always such power hoarders and have threatened me with expulsion for not sitting where I was assigned. I asked the Conductor on Saturday morning (Carolinian) if open seating was based on the pandemic...he said "No, I didn't know there was an issue with that"...! I was concerned that one (maybe two) cars were completely blocked off. One of the suggestions from the CDC is to "self-isolate"...the further away from another person you can get, the better off you will be. So why not open the cars if they are available...? As far as I know, cleaning crews are paid to clean the entire train, conductors are paid to monitor passengers on the ENTIRE train. Maybe this virus will make Amtrak reconsider their seating policy going forward.


----------



## Samsbigtrip

nti1094 said:


> It’s just me and a small handful of others.


It's going to be easy to stay 2 metres away from anyone else! Safe travels


----------



## MikeM

I finally bit the bullet and cancelled my trip for the end of this month. Calling in at 9:50am today, I was told there was a 10 minute wait and could enter a call back number. The whole process went smoothly. I'd booked using AGR points and the whole balance was refunded to my account. Makes me sad to walk away from this trip, it was something I was really looking forward to, but it was the safe thing to do.


----------



## iplaybass

Much easier to cancel and get a full refund to original payment on Amtrak than UA or AA. I had no trips booked on DL, so no experience there.


----------



## chakk

nti1094 said:


> Just boarded San Joaquin 711 in Hanford, the first morning northbound, making a connection in Sacramento to the Zephyr. In the 30 something years I have been riding the San Joaquins, I have never seen this few passengers riding. It’s just me and a small handful of others. I have an entire Comet coach car to myself! View attachment 17092



In today's world, perhaps social distancing on Amtrak means "one person per air circulation system".

Or perhaps, a la Larry David, you were wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat?


----------



## west point

Per aviation pubs. Delta is parking all their larger planes during this crisis. Makes sense. However the pilots on those planes have no where to go as requalification on other planes will take time. Present rules by the FAA ( may be subject to crisis change ) require 3 take offs and landings ever 90 days or a sim 3 and requalification sim checks once a year..


----------



## Ryan

Tirnipgreen said:


> Maybe NOW Amtrak will stop blocking passengers like sardines so that THEY (conductors) won't have to work so hard. I am not sure if The Carolinian ever had assigned seating south from Philadelphia, but we (passengers) were told to find our own seats in a specific car over the weekend. It was a refreshing change for me as the Crescent crews are always such power hoarders and have threatened me with expulsion for not sitting where I choose. I asked the Conductor on Saturday morning (Carolinian) if open seating was based on the pandemic...he said "No, I didn't know there was an issue with that"...! I was concerned that one (maybe two) cars were completely blocked off. One of the suggestions from the CDC is to "self-isolate"...the further away from another person you can get, the better off you will be. So why not open the cars if they are available...? As far as I know, cleaning crews are paid to clean the entire train, conductors are paid to monitor passengers on the ENTIRE train. Maybe this virus will make Amtrak reconsider their seating policy going forward.



If you're worried about self-isolating, you're not on a train.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Samsbigtrip said:


> 'buses' is correct! But the more you wonder the worse it looks ;-)



Technically both are correct, but buses is preferred. Up until the 1960’s Webster listed “busses” as the plural.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

So... when do we think a total shut down of LD will happen? I have nothing else to do and tempted to take what may be my last LD train on some routes. I doubt all routes will reopen when Amtrak starts up again. 

Anyone else doing / thinking the same?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

crescent-zephyr said:


> So... when do we think a total shut down of LD will happen? I have nothing else to do and tempted to take what may be my last LD train on some routes. I doubt all routes will reopen when Amtrak starts up again.
> 
> Anyone else doing / thinking the same?



No, I have no plans to travel. I’m taking this virus seriously and will not put myself or others in danger for a joy ride


----------



## v v

Re refunding tickets.

This morning used the number supplied in above posts and was asked to provide a credit card number in full before the call could be taken further. Wasn't sure why so dialled the number on Amtrak's website which was a different number, the Julie system connected us to an agent almost without wait.

Was told that full refunds are possible for journeys taken up to 30 April 2020, after that (ours is October) there would be the regular % deduction as they will not accept Coronavirus as a reason to give a full refund beyond that date. BTW we paid cash (via a credit card) for our tickets.

Said we had to think about it and would call back. After discussing it we realised that we hadn't mentioned two things. That we are in Europe and can't guarantee getting to the US to take any train, and that I am a long time supporter/member of an Amtrak forum.

Phoned back, different agent. he said immediately of course we can issue a full refund, where do you want it returned to, and that was that along with an Amtrak refund email, maybe under 2 minutes.

If it was because it was simply a different agent with a different take on the current rules, or that we can't guarantee getting to the US anyway, or even that this forum is more powerful than I thought we'll never know, but I'll say what I have said before that Amtrak customer service is absolutely second to none, anywhere, including if they had charged a fee.

Well done Amtrak, reinforced we are customers for life.


----------



## lordsigma

crescent-zephyr said:


> So... when do we think a total shut down of LD will happen? I have nothing else to do and tempted to take what may be my last LD train on some routes. I doubt all routes will reopen when Amtrak starts up again.
> 
> Anyone else doing / thinking the same?



I think the entire railroad will shutdown unless they get the billion dollar bailout they are looking for.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

v v said:


> Re refunding tickets.
> 
> This morning used the number supplied in above posts and was asked to provide a credit card number in full before the call could be taken further. Wasn't sure why so dialled the number on Amtrak's website which was a different number, the Julie system connected us to an agent almost without wait.
> 
> Was told that full refunds are possible for journeys taken up to 30 April 2020, after that (ours is October) there would be the regular % deduction as they will not accept Coronavirus as a reason to give a full refund beyond that date. BTW we paid cash (via a credit card) for our tickets.
> 
> Said we had to think about it and would call back. After discussing it we realised that we hadn't mentioned two things. That we are in Europe and can't guarantee getting to the US to take any train, and that I am a long time supporter/member of an Amtrak forum.
> 
> Phoned back, different agent. he said immediately of course we can issue a full refund, where do you want it returned to, and that was that along with an Amtrak refund email, maybe under 2 minutes.
> 
> If it was because it was simply a different agent with a different take on the current rules, or that we can't guarantee getting to the US anyway, or even that this forum is more powerful than I thought we'll never know, but I'll say what I have said before that Amtrak customer service is absolutely second to none, anywhere, including if they had charged a fee.
> 
> Well done Amtrak, reinforced we are customers for life.



People seem to be getting the April 30th date confused. Apparently even the agents. They’re waiving fees for purchases made by 4/30/20, not traveled by 4/30. So I’d say the 1st agent was confused and the 2nd agent knew what the policy was.


----------



## StanJazz

v v said:


> Re refunding tickets.
> 
> This morning used the number supplied in above posts and was asked to provide a credit card number in full before the call could be taken further. Wasn't sure why so dialled the number on Amtrak's website which was a different number, the Julie system connected us to an agent almost without wait.
> 
> Was told that full refunds are possible for journeys taken up to 30 April 2020, after that (ours is October) there would be the regular % deduction as they will not accept Coronavirus as a reason to give a full refund beyond that date. BTW we paid cash (via a credit card) for our tickets.
> 
> Said we had to think about it and would call back. After discussing it we realised that we hadn't mentioned two things. That we are in Europe and can't guarantee getting to the US to take any train, and that I am a long time supporter/member of an Amtrak forum.
> 
> Phoned back, different agent. he said immediately of course we can issue a full refund, where do you want it returned to, and that was that along with an Amtrak refund email, maybe under 2 minutes.
> 
> If it was because it was simply a different agent with a different take on the current rules, or that we can't guarantee getting to the US anyway, or even that this forum is more powerful than I thought we'll never know, but I'll say what I have said before that Amtrak customer service is absolutely second to none, anywhere, including if they had charged a fee.
> 
> Well done Amtrak, reinforced we are customers for life.


The number on the above is not the same as 1-800-USARAIL. USARAIL is the same as 1-800-872-7245


----------



## Qapla

crescent-zephyr said:


> I doubt all routes will reopen when Amtrak starts up again. ... Anyone else doing / thinking the same?



Actually, with the amount of money they say the airlines are going to need to get back to full operation ... No, I don't think Amtrak routes will be killed. It will take less money to keep Amtrak running while the airlines recover then it will to bring the airlines back rapidly.


----------



## v v

StanJazz said:


> The number on the above is not the same as 1-800-USARAIL. USARAIL is the same as 1-800-872-7245



OK, thanks


----------



## tim49424

I just called and canceled a trip via AGR Plus special number. It took less than two minutes to get a full refund. The agent did ask me why I was canceling and I told her fear of the Covid-19 virus. I was scheduled to travel to Kansas City, May 1-4 to attend the Tigers-Royals games on the 2nd & 3rd. Those games will not be played which started the process of me calling off the trip. Being nobody knows how the season is going to play out, or frankly if it is, I probably will not be rescheduling the trip until next year. The Amtrak cancellation was so quick and so effortless, I was really impressed that it went as expected. As sad as I am to nix this, I’m glad Amtrak was so accommodating.


----------



## DonNewcomb

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> What is going on with Vancouver, BC service?....


I don't know but every winter we have a Canadian snow-bird couple in our Tia-Chi class at the local senior center. They were scheduled to leave for home on April 1st but bugged out early this week to get home before the border is closed.


----------



## RebelRider

Looks like the Pennsylvanian is the next to fall. 42 and 43 are now showing annulled March 19 - March 30.


----------



## Lacunacoil

Just to clarify even further, huge saver fare sale today, which has no changes allowed or refunds being a saver fare. This is the policy that began few weeks ago. Coronavirus wont effect this, so another words, you cant buy ticket and expect change is possible. I just got off phone with a car who put me on hold and checked. This saver fare no change policy is awful as I dont live anyplace I just travel to 6 different states, by train, on low budget. And always only decide the day before or day of if I want to go.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

RebelRider said:


> Looks like the Pennsylvanian is the next to fall. 42 and 43 are now showing annulled March 19 - March 30.



Pennsy & Keystones at the request of PA. Wasn’t Amtrak’s decision.


----------



## IndyLions

iplaybass said:


> Much easier to cancel and get a full refund to original payment on Amtrak than UA or AA. I had no trips booked on DL, so no experience there.



Delta was a challenge. Re-booking my daughter’s trip back to college, which she’s going to need to rebook again – involved going to the airport because we could not get through even after multiple hour waits on the hotline.

A few days later, I had slightly better luck re-booking my own business travel – but the wait was still 2+ hours on the phone (probably closer to three).

Also – I was not able to get any sort of refund only a credit for future travel.

My multiple calls to Amtrak were all handled within five minutes with a full refund. It went super smoothly with professional response from the agents.

As a matter of fact, of all the travel arrangements I had to cancel - it was only the airlines where I could not get a refund. In every other situation I got a full refund from hotels, Amtrak, etc.

I think they are addicted to their business model of taking everybody’s money upfront and depending on it for cash flow. No wonder they need to get bailed out every time there’s an economic crisis. Anybody who says the airlines are not subsidized is fooling themselves. I support the subsidy, don’t get me wrong – but I get sick of hearing the argument that Amtrak is subsidized and airlines are not.


----------



## BLNT

chakk said:


> In today's world, perhaps social distancing on Amtrak means "one person per air circulation system".
> 
> Or perhaps, a la Larry David, you were wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat?



LOL


----------



## jiml

DonNewcomb said:


> I don't know but every winter we have a Canadian snow-bird couple in our Tia-Chi class at the local senior center. They were scheduled to leave for home on April 1st but bugged out early this week to get home before the border is closed.


Canadians have until the 23rd of March to get back before their out-of-country health insurance is terminated. Several of the companies who provide these services are using the crisis to wiggle out of contracts, so even if one breaks a leg they will not be covered. This, and threat of a full border closure have everyone expediting returns. We trimmed our US vacation by 3 days and know many who are dropping weeks.


----------



## Tirnipgreen

Ryan said:


> If you're worried about self-isolating, you're not on a train.


I think my point was more about the way Amtrak conductors block passengers into tightly packed groups when (as they ought to be doing now) they ought to allow passengers to find their own seat where THEY want to sit. I have yet to figure out why seating can't be handled like the airlines do with online seat selection. My other point was...were the conductors so clueless about the nationwide Coronavirus protocols dealing with distancing from others...? I, personally, am not buying into the toilet paper hoarding mentality that has taken this country by storm. Am I concerned about contracting the virus, YES...! I just think the attitudes of many Amtrak staff towards passengers need to improve...but I still prefer the train over flying.


----------



## VentureForth

Tirnipgreen said:


> I think my point was more about the way Amtrak conductors block passengers into tightly packed groups when (as they ought to be doing now) they ought to allow passengers to find their own seat where THEY want to sit. I have yet to figure out why seating can't be handled like the airlines do with online seat selection. My other point was...were the conductors so clueless about the nationwide Coronavirus protocols dealing with distancing from others...? I, personally, am not buying into the toilet paper hoarding mentality that has taken this country by storm. Am I concerned about contracting the virus, YES...! I just think the attitudes of many Amtrak staff towards passengers need to improve...but I still prefer the train over flying.


It's not insurmountable, but the main reason they can't do seat selection on the train like they do on the airlines is because on the airlines, everyone gets on then off together. Though Amtrak could certainly assign seats, seat selection would be a whole different ballgame.


----------



## Suze10860

Wow - that was probably one of the easiest, and at the same time, one of the hardest things (emotionally) I've done in a long time.

Just got off the phone with Amtrak, cancelling our April 4 NY-Chi roundtrip . The entire call took literally 2 minutes. The first time I called I got the dreaded "All circuits busy," which was a fear. But then my call was answered the next time, got right through to Bob, and he took care of everything without a moment of hesitation.

And after much discussion, my husband and I decided for a full refund to our credit card rather than an eVoucher. With the current state of life, we really can't be messing around with over $1,000 of our money.

And just for the record, I was a tiny bit teary while I was on the phone. Yes, I totally get that in the whole big picture, this situation is trivial compared to what many are facing. But that doesn't mean that it's not remarkably disappointing to me. I mean, besides the whole train aspect, we were going out to Chicago to see our son.

I'm sad about so many aspects of daily life right now, and cancelling this trip just added on. So here's to better things for everyone in the not-to-distant future.

The main point I wanted to make is that the cancellation/refund process (for me anyway) was super fast and easy. I'd say if the agent you speak with even hesitates, either call back or ask for a transfer.

Good luck everyone.


----------



## NS VIA Fan

DonNewcomb said:


> I don't know but every winter we have a Canadian snow-bird couple in our Tia-Chi class at the local senior center. They were scheduled to leave for home on April 1st but bugged out early this week to get home before the border is closed.



If they can get to the Border.....they can't be denied entry (same for Americans in the opposite direction) but they could be put in isolation for 14 days once back in the country.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

NS VIA Fan said:


> If they can get to the Border.....they can't be denied entry (same for Americans in the opposite direction) but they could be put in isolation for 14 days once back in the country.


That's how it's supposed to work (and almost always does) but if they declined to comply what could we do about it? Never seen any constitutional lawyers, bilateral signatories, or right-of-return advocates at the inspection booth. Entry candidates have few protections and no fundamental right to representation here.


----------



## Mail4MrTed

neroden said:


> It's not immediately obvious but this temporarily ends ALL service to Parkesburg and Coatesville, since SEPTA doesn't stop at those two stations. (The other stations skipped by the Keystone are served by SEPTA.)
> 
> The only other US stations to lose all service so far are those unique to the Adirondack, which tend to have extremely low ridership in the first place. (Well, and Winter Park, but the season was almost over anyway.)
> 
> With what's going on in Canada, I'm not surprised that the Maple Leaf and Adirondack border crossings have been cancelled. Via has cut the Canadian, the Ocean, the Jasper-Prince Rupert line, their half of the Maple Leaf, and over half of their corridor frequencies. GO has also cut Niagara train service though they're still running buses.



For those of you who are members of the National Association of Railroad Passengers - and you should be - please contact your representatives to insist that they include Amtrak, commuter agencies and local transit in any relief they plan to extend for the airlines - fair is far.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Amtrak modifies schedules in WI, MI to and from Chicago








Amtrak modifies schedules in WI, MI to and from Chicago


Amtrak Midwest Services changes and modifies schedules for trains in Wisconsin and Michigan that are traveling to Chicago.




www.wnem.com








> Amtrak Midwest Services changes and modifies schedules for trains in Wisconsin and Michigan that are traveling to Chicago.
> 
> The company announced that effective Thursday, March 19, some Amtrak Midwest network service modifications are in place due to reduced travel demand.
> 
> The following trains are affected:
> 
> Chicago-Milwaukee Hiawatha corridor service reduced to four daily roundtrips. Friday evening Hiawatha Train 343 also temporarily suspended.
> Chicago-Detroit-Pontiac Wolverine corridor service reduced to two daily roundtrips.
> Chicago-Holland-Grand Rapids Pere Marquette daily roundtrips suspended. Amtrak Thruway Bus connections to and from Grand Rapids are available daily via Kalamazoo.
> No changes to Chicago-East Lansing-Port Huron Blue Water roundtrips or Kansas City-Jefferson City-St. Louis Missouri River Runner corridor services.
> Some Amtrak Thruway Bus routes will have service modifications.


----------



## wwchi

yup got a call on a Pere Marquette reservation I had but doesn't matter I wasn't going to need it!


----------



## tim49424

Thirdrail7 said:


> Amtrak modifies schedules in WI, MI to and from Chicago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak modifies schedules in WI, MI to and from Chicago
> 
> 
> Amtrak Midwest Services changes and modifies schedules for trains in Wisconsin and Michigan that are traveling to Chicago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wnem.com



I was just going to post about what I saw on Facebook about the Pere Marquette. No surprises that service here has been suspended.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Just cant be much longer till Airlines,Amtrak and all Public Transportation gets Shutdown as the entire US goes into Shelter in Place and Martial Law if it gets bad enough!( there are scarey people with guns that'll be out there!!)


----------



## pennyk

MODERATOR NOTE: Please be reminded again that comments in this thread should be limited to coronavirus and traveling on Amtrak. Thank you for your cooperation. Off topic comments may be removed.


----------



## river

I had 2 sleeper car reservations for April 2020. I cancelled one yesterday via their automated process and was charged a 25% cancellation fee. 
I came here to this forum and realized if I talked to an agent directly I could get a full refund. That option wasn't offered by "Julie".So today I cancelled my 2nd reservation for April with a full refund. 

Is there any way I can get my 25% cancel fee (which was over $200) returned or am I out of luck? The agent I spoke to today said he couldn't do it and tried (unsuccessfully) to transfer me to Refunds. 
Any suggestions? I did email Amtrak with my request, but not sure how responsive they will be.
Thanks.


----------



## Bex

Governor Hogan of Maryland just said no one should get on an Amtrak train (or MARC or Metro) unless they are emergency personnel, a frontline healthcare provider, or their job is essential to the supply chain.


----------



## Bob Dylan

ALL Public Transportation needs to be Shutdown NOW before we become Italy!

Facts matter, believe CDC and CNN, dont believe the Internet or Faux Noise!

The Bay Area and NY/NJ/CONN have it right! Stay Home unless you are a First Responder!!!

Exceptions: Run it for First Responders and Emergency Workees only until the Crisis spikes and starts down! If China and Korea did it, we can too!!


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Bob Dylan said:


> Facts matter, believe CDC and CNN, dont believe the Internet or Faux Noise!



There really aren’t that many facts... that’s the problem. I’ve thought about taking the empire builder out to Izaak Walton and spending my quarantine time there! But I don’t want to get totally stranded if the worse happens. :-/


----------



## tricia

Bob Dylan said:


> ALL Public Transportation needs to be Shutdown NOW before we become Italy!
> 
> Facts matter, believe CDC and CNN, dont believe the Internet or Faux Noise!
> 
> The Bay Area and NY/NJ/CONN have it right! Stay Home unless you are a First Responder!!!



It's a little more complicated than that. In addition to first responders, folks whose work makes sure food, water, and other necessities remain available need to do that work--as safely as possible, and then go home. 

For example: I manage a buyers' group for animal feed, and will go to the county extension center's loading dock today to make sure everyone who ordered feed this month gets it. Three longtime buyers will pick up their feed before I get there today, to minimize points of contact. And then we'll all go home. But if all of us stay home today, there'll be an awful lot of hungry livestock.... For us, today, this is not a super-stressful decision--western NC is far from any of the current viral hot spots. By the time our next order is scheduled, in May, who knows?

So, I guess the Amtrak-related question at this point is: Where and to meet which urgent needs should Amtrak be running trains right now? And as circumstances change, how might Amtrak's operations ought to change?


----------



## Bob Dylan

tricia said:


> It's a little more complicated than that. In addition to first responders, folks whose work makes sure food, water, and other necessities remain available need to do that work--as safely as possible, and then go home.
> 
> For example: I manage a buyers' group for animal feed, and will go to the county extension center's loading dock today to make sure everyone who ordered feed this month gets it. Three longtime buyers will pick up their feed before I get there today, to minimize points of contact. And then we'll all go home. But if all of us stay home today, there'll be an awful lot of hungry livestock.... For us, today, this is not a super-stressful decision--western NC is far from any of the current viral hot spots. By the time our next order is scheduled, in May, who knows?
> 
> So, I guess the Amtrak-related question at this point is: Where and to meet which urgent needs should Amtrak be running trains right now? And as circumstances change, how might Amtrak's operations ought to change?


I agree, I clarified my post with an edit, see sbove!


----------



## Eric S

Bob Dylan said:


> ALL Public Transportation needs to be Shutdown NOW before we become Italy!
> 
> Facts matter, believe CDC and CNN, dont believe the Internet or Faux Noise!
> 
> The Bay Area and NY/NJ/CONN have it right! Stay Home unless you are a First Responder!!!



I strongly disagree with this. There are a lot of things to consider here including people who rely on public transit to get to and from their vitally important jobs.


----------



## PeeweeTM

Skype says, it took me and an Amtrak agent 5 minutes and 5 seconds to cancel three trips in April/May. 
No options for the reimbursement, money comes back to my credit card.

Tomorrow I'll contact United Airlines, because they cancelled some flights and are now offering a 0030 arrival via SFO in CHI (was 1410 the afternoon before, coming from Germany). 
I'm curious if they'll handle the (EU261) reimbursement as client-friendly as Amtrak just did.


----------



## Bob Dylan

PeeweeTM said:


> Skype says, it took me and an Amtrak agent 5 minutes and 5 seconds to cancel three trips in April/May.
> No options for the reimbursement, money comes back to my credit card.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll contact United Airlines, because they cancelled some flights and are now offering a 0030 arrival via SFO in CHI (was 1410 the afternoon before, coming from Germany).
> I'm curious if they'll handle the (EU261) reimbursement as client-friendly as Amtrak just did.


I wouldn't count on coming into the US in the next few weeks/ The State Dept has raised the Travel Advisory to Level 4 and we expect the President to close the US borders to all except US Citizens returning from abroad.

There are already Americans stranded in various Countries and the Govt is discussing using Military Transport to get them home!


----------



## pennyk

MODERATOR NOTE (again): Many posts that were not on the specific topic of Amtrak and coronavirus (but were related to the coronavirus) were moved to the general coronavirus thread in the AU Lounge. Staff is reviewing some of the posts that may be considered political and those posts may be removed. Completely off topic posts were removed.

Thank you for your cooperation.


----------



## City of Miami

The Met canceled the rest of their season this morning which put the kabash on my trip to NYC planned for mid-April. So I called Amtrak and got an agent after a short wait. He cancelled my 2 reservations without question. Because they were Saver Fares I was restricted to 1 year vouchers instead of a credit card refund but there was no penalty, full value in the vouchers. I have no complaint with that as I'll certainly use it before a year is done.


----------



## City of Miami

river said:


> I had 2 sleeper car reservations for April 2020. I cancelled one yesterday via their automated process and was charged a 25% cancellation fee.
> I came here to this forum and realized if I talked to an agent directly I could get a full refund. That option wasn't offered by "Julie".So today I cancelled my 2nd reservation for April with a full refund.
> 
> Is there any way I can get my 25% cancel fee (which was over $200) returned or am I out of luck? The agent I spoke to today said he couldn't do it and tried (unsuccessfully) to transfer me to Refunds.
> Any suggestions? I did email Amtrak with my request, but not sure how responsive they will be.
> Thanks.


I'm sure you'll get your $200 back. Just be patient AND keep trying.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

river said:


> Is there any way I can get my 25% cancel fee (which was over $200) returned or am I out of luck? The agent I spoke to today said he couldn't do it and tried (unsuccessfully) to transfer me to Refunds. Any suggestions? I did email Amtrak with my request, but not sure how responsive they will be.





City of Miami said:


> I'm sure you'll get your $200 back. Just be patient AND keep trying.


It may be easier and more practical to push for a $200 travel voucher instead of refunding a fully processed penalty charge. I would call and ask for Customer Relations with no further effort spent on resolution via email. Do be aware that compensatory vouchers will need to be spent in a single use.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Trainorders is saying sleepers and diners will come off some LD trains


----------



## river

Thanks for the idea of asking for a compensatory voucher! Great idea!


----------



## Trollopian

Suze10860 said:


> "Yes, I totally get that in the whole big picture, this situation is trivial compared to what many are facing. But that doesn't mean that it's not remarkably disappointing to me. "
> 
> Same here, Suze. My beautiful cat died four weeks ago and I miss him so much. My plan was to take my long-dreamt loop around the country by train, Capitol Limited to California Zephyr to Coast Starlight to Empire Builder, stop in Chicago to visit an old friend, come home and adopt another cat. That plan is kaput.
> 
> Yes, it's trivial in the scheme of things, but all 315 million Americans (and billions more around the world) are facing disappointments and hardships at best, death at worst.
> 
> In the category of small blessings: I was with my cat when he was euthanized. Now, local vets won't allow owners to accompany their pets. Owners wait curbside and "consult" by phone while their pet is treated inside the clinic.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

All Midwest corridors are being cut to one daily round-trip, except for the Pere Marquette which is cancelled entirely and Lincoln Service which retains a morning and evening round-trip.


----------



## MikeM

crescent-zephyr said:


> Trainorders is saying sleepers and diners will come off some LD trains



That should really help things along, especially losing sleepers. I know they're more labor intensive, but they are also more isolated so that folks can segregate a bit.


----------



## pennyk

pennyk said:


> MODERATOR NOTE (again): Many posts that were not on the specific topic of Amtrak and coronavirus (but were related to the coronavirus) were moved to the general coronavirus thread in the AU Lounge. Staff is reviewing some of the posts that may be considered political and those posts may be removed. Completely off topic posts were removed.
> 
> Thank you for your cooperation.


MODERATOR COMMENT TO MODERATOR NOTE: I am bumping this post. Off topic posts continue to be removed. The AU Lounge is the location for discussing topics that are not rail or transportation related.
Please keep on topic.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

MikeM said:


> That should really help things along, especially losing sleepers. I know they're more labor intensive, but they are also more isolated so that folks can segregate a bit.



That’s what I was thinking... if I was going to travel right now a sleeper is pretty isolated. If I wiped everything down with a Clorox wipe I wouldn’t be tooooo worried about it. 

But the coaches will be pretty close to empty anyways so it may not matter.


----------



## JLC

I had to cancel our first train trip due to the Coronavirus and my whole group is so disappointed. I work in healthcare (medical laboratory technician) and if I leave the service area of the health system I work for, I would have to report my itinerary and could be forced to do a 14-day self quarantine before I could go back to work. Not to mention most of the attractions we wanted to see are closed down. My biggest worry, and this is in general and not just traveling, is all five of us are 60+ and three of us would be considered high risk due to health conditions. It just seems prudent to be cautious right now.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Eric S said:


> I strongly disagree with this. There are a lot of things to consider here including people who rely on public transit to get to and from their vitally important jobs.



Also, people who need transit to get groceries and other supplies and can’t afford delivery.


----------



## thully

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> All Midwest corridors are being cut to one daily round-trip, except for the Pere Marquette which is cancelled entirely and Lincoln Service which retains a morning and evening round-trip.


Saw that - it looks like 351 and 352 are the only Wolverines running. Surprised they didn’t run 354 instead of 352, as that is the one with connections from LD trains eastbound (351 does connect with LD trains westbound). Staying home myself, but it would seem like they would want to preserve connections for those who *do* need to travel...


----------



## crescent-zephyr

My escape plan to Izak Walton Inn is sounding better and better every day!


----------



## zephyr17

crescent-zephyr said:


> My escape plan to Izak Walton Inn is sounding better and better every day!


Um, yeah, except it's closing








Glacier National Park Cabin Rentals & Lodging | Izaak Walton Inn


Izaak Walton Inn is a family-owned retreat bordering Glacier National Park, in Essex, Montana, offering Glacier National Park cabin rentals and lodging. Enjoy on-site activities year round, several lodging options and on-site dining.




izaakwaltoninn.com


----------



## crescent-zephyr

zephyr17 said:


> Um, yeah, except it's closing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glacier National Park Cabin Rentals & Lodging | Izaak Walton Inn
> 
> 
> Izaak Walton Inn is a family-owned retreat bordering Glacier National Park, in Essex, Montana, offering Glacier National Park cabin rentals and lodging. Enjoy on-site activities year round, several lodging options and on-site dining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> izaakwaltoninn.com



There goes that plan


----------



## Devil's Advocate

crescent-zephyr said:


> There goes that plan


Don't give up so easily. Now's the perfect time to sneak in when nobody's looking and claim squatter's rights when they return. While you wait you can work on that new book you've been outlining.


----------



## Asher

Devil's Advocate said:


> Don't give up so easily. Now's the perfect time to sneak in when nobody's looking and claim squatter's rights when they return. While you wait you can work on that new book you've been outlining.



Probably your lucky day, bad place to come down with the virus


----------



## neroden

I fully expect all nonessential travel to be shut down soon, at least for a little while while they try to get mass testing up and running. Everything I was planning to take the train to before the AU Gathering has been cancelled. We're already in self-isolation, since Saturday, because Bitsy's in a high risk group. So are my parents, separately. Everyone who can should be because any of us could be asymptomatic carriers -- there are estimated to be lots and lots of asymptomatic carriers.

RPA (NARP) has a campaign to get Congress to provide emergency funding so Amtrak can turn the lights back on when the crisis is over. Please contact your Congresscritters in support of it. Also contact them in support of the same thing for the local rail agencies like NY MTA, NJ Transit, MBTA, etc. They all need it.

I agree with those who say that coach should come off LD trains, not sleepers. Sleeper is probably the safest way to travel right now and should be availble for essential travel


----------



## kdeschner

I just travelled on the Capitol Ltd. Wednesday and Yesterday from WAS-CHI. Sounds like the SSL is coming off the consist and the diner will act like a CCC again with the cafe and flex - dining in the same car. After hearing this, I think it’s safe to assume this will also happen on the CONO which runs with a CCC and is flex - dining as well. Staff I talked to stated that the same was happening on that route. It would also be interesting to see if this would happen on the Eagle due to it running with a CCC, but also with a full dinner menu...


----------



## crescent-zephyr

kdeschner said:


> I just travelled on the Capitol Ltd. Wednesday and Yesterday from WAS-CHI. Sounds like the SSL is coming off the consist and the diner will act like a CCC again with the cafe and flex - dining in the same car. After hearing this, I think it’s safe to assume this will also happen on the CONO which runs with a CCC and is flex - dining as well. Staff I talked to stated that the same was happening on that route. It would also be interesting to see if this would happen on the Eagle due to it running with a CCC, but also with a full dinner menu...


 
How was the trip? Did it feel weird traveling right now or still relaxing and enjoyable? 

I’m so tempted to take a ride while I still can, but I know I probably shouldn’t.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

crescent-zephyr said:


> How was the trip? Did it feel weird traveling right now or still relaxing and enjoyable?
> 
> I’m so tempted to take a ride while I still can, but I know I probably shouldn’t.


I just arrived Chicago yesterday on the EB from Portland. Occupancy in the Portland sleeper was 25% at most and every group got their own table in the dining car. It was definitely a little weird but actually very enjoyable with all the space. The most stressful part was the day leading up to departure hoping the train wouldn't be cancelled.


----------



## pennyk

AGAIN please keep on topic. Several posts were moved to a new thread regarding axle counts and several were moved to the general coronavirus thread in the AU Lounge.

Thanks for your cooperation (again)


----------



## Thirdrail7

Amtrak Advisory | Amtrak to Operate on Modified Schedules







www.amtrak.com





They cut off the last Acela trips and a few more NEC trains. 



> Service Adjustments Due to Coronavirus
> March 20, 2020, 3:15 pm ET
> While Amtrak continues to operate across the nation, we have adjusted some services due to significantly reduced demand in key markets. The most up-to-date schedules are available when booking your trip on Amtrak.com and in the mobile app.
> 
> Service Modifications
> 
> Reduced schedules
> Northeast Corridor: Operating approximately 40% of typical weekday schedules, including Northeast Regional and Acela service.
> Adirondack (New York – Montreal): No service north of Albany
> Amtrak Cascades (Eugene – Vancouver, B.C.): No service north of Seattle
> Amtrak Hartford Line (New Haven, CT – Springfield, Mass.)
> Amtrak Thruway Bus routes
> Capitol Corridor (San Jose – Sacramento) as of Saturday, March 21
> Downeaster (Boston – Brunswick, Maine)
> Empire Service (New York – Niagara Falls)
> Ethan Allen Express (New York – Rutland, Vermont)
> Hiawatha (Chicago – Milwaukee)
> Illini/Saluki (Chicago – Carbondale) as of Saturday, March 21
> Illinois Zephyr/Carl Sandburg Chicago – Quincy) as of Saturday, March 21
> Lincoln Service (Chicago – St. Louis) as of Saturday, March 21
> Maple Leaf (New York – Toronto): No service west of Niagara Falls, NY
> Valley Flyer (New Haven, CT – Greenfield, Mass.)
> Wolverine (Chicago – Pontiac)
> Canceled services
> Keystone Service (Harrisburg – New York)
> Pennsylvanian trains (New York – Pittsburgh)
> Pere Marquette (Chicago – Grand Rapids)
> Winter Park Express (Denver – Winter Park Resort)
> Due to service reductions, some stations may not be staffed. If the station is closed, please proceed to the platform to board your train.
> 
> Other services may also be impacted as circumstances change. Café service will also be suspended on select trains.
> 
> Customers with reservations on trains that are being modified will be contacted and typically be accommodated on trains with similar departure times or another day.
> 
> Amtrak is waiving change fees on all existing or new reservations made before April 30, 2020. Simply log in to your account or go to Modify Trip on Amtrak.com, or find your reservation from your account on the home screen in the Amtrak app. A fare difference may apply to your new itinerary. If you want to cancel your reservation with no fee, you must call 800-USA-RAIL and speak with an agent (not available via Amtrak.com or the app).






kdeschner said:


> I just travelled on the Capitol Ltd. Wednesday and Yesterday from WAS-CHI. Sounds like the SSL is coming off the consist and the diner will act like a CCC again with the cafe and flex - dining in the same car. After hearing this, I think it’s safe to assume this will also happen on the CONO which runs with a CCC and is flex - dining as well. Staff I talked to stated that the same was happening on that route. It would also be interesting to see if this would happen on the Eagle due to it running with a CCC, but also with a full dinner menu...



I'm pretty sure you will see the consists reduced to match demand. They'll probably resemble the winter line up.


----------



## v v

Question for a friend.

He has a ticket for the Southwest Chief on the 31 March, Lax to CHI. Is there any inside information as to whether all rail transport will be stopped or are the major LD routes almost guaranteed to run?

Thanks


----------



## crescent-zephyr

v v said:


> Question for a friend.
> 
> He has a ticket for the Southwest Chief on the 31 March, Lax to CHI. Is there any inside information as to whether all rail transport will be stopped or are the major LD routes almost guaranteed to run?
> 
> Thanks



The way things are going nothing is a guarantee. Does he plan on doing anything in Chicago other than take another train back? I think Illinois is on total lock down. 

I’ve got nothing else to do so I’ve thought about just riding amtrak around.... I feel like I would be pretty safe in a sleeper with some Clorox wipes to disinfect it. 

But I don’t want to get stranded somewhere and have a difficult time getting back... especially with Florida starting to mandatory close hotels in some areas.


----------



## v v

crescent-zephyr said:


> The way things are going nothing is a guarantee. Does he plan on doing anything in Chicago other than take another train back? I think Illinois is on total lock down.
> 
> I’ve got nothing else to do so I’ve thought about just riding amtrak around.... I feel like I would be pretty safe in a sleeper with some Clorox wipes to disinfect it.
> 
> But I don’t want to get stranded somewhere and have a difficult time getting back... especially with Florida starting to mandatory close hotels in some areas.



No it's not a vacation, just getting from A to B. He would be catching the Lake Shore I think on arrival day, or the next day.

Like your idea, sounds like an adventure.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

I wonder what the stations are like? Any services open? Are the lounges open?


----------



## TinCan782

*LOS ANGELES UNION STATION UNDERGOES PARTIAL CLOSURE*




__





Union Station Los Angeles


Welcome to Union Station




www.unionstationla.com


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

crescent-zephyr said:


> I wonder what the stations are like? Any services open? Are the lounges open?


Restaurants in IL are restricted to take-out/drivethrough/delivery, so the fast-food places in Chicago Union Station may still be open, but no tables to sit at right next to the restaurant.


----------



## Rover

Larry Hogan, Md. gov., limits access to BWI Airport, MARC, Metro and Amtrak over coronavirus


Maryland Gov, Larry Hogan is restricting access to BWI Airport and urging citizens not to take public transit.




www.washingtontimes.com


----------



## Skyline

crescent-zephyr said:


> The way things are going nothing is a guarantee. Does he plan on doing anything in Chicago other than take another train back? I think Illinois is on total lock down.
> 
> I’ve got nothing else to do so I’ve thought about just riding amtrak around.... I feel like I would be pretty safe in a sleeper with some Clorox wipes to disinfect it.
> 
> But I don’t want to get stranded somewhere and have a difficult time getting back... especially with Florida starting to mandatory close hotels in some areas.




"Just riding Amtrak around" doesn't seem like a great idea right now, unless for essential travel. You not only have to be concerned about yourself but everyone else. What if you've contracted the virus, but show no symptoms yet? You could be unintentionally passing it to others...


----------



## Vickie Griffin

i have a trip planned for the end of this month to go see my mom before I’m not able to. Will I still be able to travel?


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Skyline said:


> "Just riding Amtrak around" doesn't seem like a great idea right now, unless for essential travel. You not only have to be concerned about yourself but everyone else. What if you've contracted the virus, but show no symptoms yet? You could be unintentionally passing it to others...



That’s no less true now than it was a month ago.

However I don’t want to directly disobey government orders especially when they are designed to help people in need. 

In reality I doubt I will.... but it still helps me mentally to think that I could.  relaxing in a roomette watching the Rockies drift by window would be quite good for me about now! Ha.


----------



## pennyk

Vickie Griffin said:


> i have a trip planned for the end of this month to go see my mom before I’m not able to. Will I still be able to travel?


It may depend on where you live and to where you want to travel. If traveling by Amtrak, it may depend on whether the train on which you plan to travel is suspended/canceled.


----------



## TinCan782

Right now, with LD trains still running, the problem will be where do you stay during a layover or destination? I believe many hotels have suspended service. Restaurants are limited to "take-out" if they offer that.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

FrensicPic said:


> Right now, with LD trains still running, the problem will be where do you stay during a layover or destination? I believe many hotels have suspended service. Restaurants are limited to "take-out" if they offer that.



Yeah I would only take LD trains and transfer from one train to another.

Before it closed I had thought about taking the Builder out to Izaak Walton or one of the other Glacier area lodges. More secluded the better but I could distract myself with lovely and peaceful scenery.


----------



## Qapla

On the news the other day they had a piece on about how bad things are in Italy. They pointed out that Italy is a "good example" of what happens when people do NOT listen to the authorities and just do what they want instead of what's recommended.

With that in mind and the number of places that have asked their locals to curtail unnecessary travel - I would be on the side that taking Amtrak "just because" would not be a good idea .... we don't need an Italy over here.

I had intended to take a couple "day trips" but I can wait ....


----------



## OBS

Unfortunately, several LD trains have been running out of Toilet Paper because passengers are stealing it. Also issues with toilets clogging because of the prevalent use of bacterial wipes by passengers who then proceed to flush them down the toilet....


----------



## zephyr17

OBS said:


> Unfortunately, several LD trains have been running out of Toilet Paper because passengers are stealing it. Also issues with toilets clogging because of the prevalent use of bacterial wipes by passengers who then proceed to flush them down the toilet....


Aaaaaarggggggh!


----------



## Thirdrail7

v v said:


> Question for a friend.
> 
> He has a ticket for the Southwest Chief on the 31 March, Lax to CHI. Is there any inside information as to whether all rail transport will be stopped or are the major LD routes almost guaranteed to run?
> 
> Thanks



I wouldn't say it is guaranteed to run but as an intercity operator, I don't believe Amtrak may shut down without the consent of the government. According to  CFR 49 U.S. Code § 24101 Amtrak.Findings, mission, and goals part of its responsibility is to operate in times of emergency:



> (9)provide additional or complementary intercity transportation service to ensure mobility in times of national disaster or other instances where other travel options are not adequately available;



As long as it is deemed an essential service and funded, it will likely continue to operate. That being said, local guidelines can limit how it is operated. There are plenty of train stations closed. Certain cities have implemented curfews and some Amtrak trains arrive during those times. Therefore, no one is allowed on or off. Services such as Uber, Lyft or other forms of public transportation aren't available to meet the trains.


----------



## DonNewcomb

crescent-zephyr said:


> ......But the coaches will be pretty close to empty anyways so it may not matter.


Do you have enough Clorox wipes to go over the public restroom every time you need to use it or do you plan to follow Sheldon's policy of holding it for the entire trip.


Vickie Griffin said:


> i have a trip planned for the end of this month to go see my mom before I’m not able to. Will I still be able to travel?


But should you? Does your mom need your help? Every visitor poses a risk of infection. I've canceled plans to visit my son an his wife. You could be exposed on the train and expose your mom.


OBS said:


> Unfortunately, several LD trains have been running out of Toilet Paper because passengers are stealing it. ......


 There's another reason.


----------



## v v

Thank you very much Thirdrail7, it's a journey home where his work is. 

If the US base restrictions on what is currently happening here in Europe he would still be allowed to travel, his job is essential, it's food production.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

DonNewcomb said:


> Do you have enough Clorox wipes to go over the public restroom every time you need to use it or do you plan to follow Sheldon's policy of holding it for the entire trip.



IF I were to go I’d for sure be getting a sleeper!! 

If a LD train stopped right in my town... I’d probably be on one already. The idea of flying to, and then transferring to Amtrak seems iffy for many reasons right now.


----------



## Asher

I can understand someone wanting to ride a train to get home, traveling somewhere just to travel is ridiculous. What are you going to do when you get wherever, or who are you going to talk to, interact with. Nobody wants to really get close to other people, especially strangers. If you want to do any riding, try riding this thing out, for the time being.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

anumberone said:


> I can understand someone wanting to ride a train to get home, traveling somewhere just to travel is ridiculous. What are you going to do when you get wherever, or who are you going to talk to, interact with. Nobody wants to really get close to other people, especially strangers. If you want to do any riding, try riding this thing out, for the time being.



It would just be a train ride for a train ride.
I mean that’s why I asked others what the vibe is like on the trains. 

I enjoy relaxing in my sleeper by myself. And if I get a table to myself in the diner... even better! (Will reminds of the parlor car days!).

Again.... I doubt I’ll do it. I’ve checked some prices and thought about it.


----------



## Manny T

My entire state is *ordered*_ to stay home_ -- no going outside except to access food, supplies, health care, walk the dog or exercise (individually). Fortunately, liquor stores are open, they are deemed to provide an essential service. This is until April 7th (at least).

Although not every state has implemented this, I assume this is for the _national_ good, not just for the good of our state.

Under the circumstances, going on Amtrak for non-essential travel is just unfathomable to me.


----------



## v v

My two penniesworth... a view from an alien

I think you are all being a little hard on crescent-zephyr, he's? obviously a man who travels in solitary anyway, and would be someone who would minimise any spread of the disease, add to that the US situation is changing so fast (just like everywhere else) that what is correct today isn't tomorrow and vice versa. 

We travelled to Egypt 3 weeks ago and made a conscious decision to do so on the information we had 4 weeks ago. If asked to make the same decision just 4 weeks on there is no doubt we wouldn't have travelled, things change.

After a fortunate for all of us a life of total predictability to do and go where we please when we please it must be very hard for many to change habits of a lifetime, especially when your government like ours flip-flops.

Last, it's estimated that maybe 60 - 80% of us will catch this virus and for the majority we will suffer no more than we do now with colds and flu. At some point the vulnerable will have to be exposed as we can't lock large numbers away for ever and those that still contribute to the economy have to be able to have a semblance of a normal life at some point. I agree now that that point is some way off.

I'm sure there are counter arguments and possibly I'll respond to them, but if nothing else don't make crescent-zephyr the scapegoat, my reading he is just a railfan like all of you looking for a reasonable way to ride the rails.


----------



## RichieRich

v v said:


> ...my reading he is just a railfan like all of you looking for a reasonable way to ride the rails.


He can wait.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

RichieRich said:


> He can wait.



Lol. Actually I can do whatever I want. It’s not illegal to ride Amtrak right now.





v v said:


> I think you are all being a little hard on crescent-zephyr, he's? obviously a man who travels in solitary anyway, and would be someone who would minimise any spread of the disease, add to that the US situation is changing so fast (just like everywhere else) that what is correct today isn't tomorrow and vice versa.



I am a he so you guessed correct! I actually typically enjoy the lounge car and meeting people on LD trains but I can’t imagine that the SSL is bustling with activity right now. But the quiet of a sleeper is nice too.


----------



## tricia

crescent-zephyr said:


> Lol. Actually I can do whatever I want. It’s not illegal to ride Amtrak right now.



"Not illegal" isn't the same thing as "the right thing to do."


----------



## IndyLions

My take is that crescent-zephyr is doing a little bit of dreaming.

That is something a lot of us have time for right now - and mentally it can do us some serious good.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

IndyLions said:


> My take is that crescent-zephyr is doing a little bit of dreaming.
> 
> That is something a lot of us have time for right now - and mentally it can do us some serious good.



Yes you get it.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

Manny T said:


> My entire state is *ordered*_ to stay home_ -- no going outside except to access food, supplies, health care, walk the dog or exercise (individually). Fortunately, liquor stores are open, they are deemed to provide an essential service. This is until April 7th (at least).
> 
> Although not every state has implemented this, I assume this is for the _national_ good, not just for the good of our state.
> 
> Under the circumstances, going on Amtrak for non-essential travel is just unfathomable to me.


Kinda related to the liquor stores staying open, I've read that a number of liquor distilleries are producing high-proof "hand cleaner". Not sure if they're allowed to call it "hand sanitizer" yet, but it's at least the CDC-recommended 60% alcohol for disinfecting hands (and often a higher alcohol percentange). And in many cases, it's being distributed for free by the distilleries.


----------



## Skyline

crescent-zephyr said:


> That’s no less true now than it was a month ago.
> 
> However I don’t want to directly disobey government orders especially when they are designed to help people in need.
> 
> In reality I doubt I will.... but it still helps me mentally to think that I could.  relaxing in a roomette watching the Rockies drift by window would be quite good for me about now! Ha.




With that caveat, I agree!


----------



## Asher

crescent-zephyr said:


> Yes you get it.


I don't mean to abolish you of you desires to do what you want, you certainly are entitled. And I know you don't have to be reminded that this ongoing dilemma is as serious as a heart attack. Have a great day!


----------



## jis

Of relevance to Amtrak riding members in AU...

Philippe in LA, a favorite haunt of many AU Members closes for the first time in 100 years due to Corona Virus









Coronavirus causes LA’s Philippe the Original to close for first time in more than 100 years


Philippe the Original in Los Angeles, is always bustling with locals and tourists in search of the Chinatown mainstay’s french dipped sandwiches. But not on Monday or in the near future.




www.dailynews.com


----------



## Bob Dylan

jis said:


> Of relevance to Amtrak riding members in AU...
> 
> Philippe in LA, a favorite haunt of many AU Members closes for the first time in 100 years due to Corona Virus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus causes LA’s Philippe the Original to close for first time in more than 100 years
> 
> 
> Philippe the Original in Los Angeles, is always bustling with locals and tourists in search of the Chinatown mainstay’s french dipped sandwiches. But not on Monday or in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailynews.com


No to go or Curb side Service???

And what about the joints in Union Station including the New Pub and Big Bucks Coffee?


----------



## RickIronton

I just don't understand why Amtrak has not drastically reduced fares considering the virus?


----------



## Seaboard92

I see what Crescent Zephyr says. I too am dreaming of future trips. However my next one won’t be on Amtrak. 

Being pent up line we are just makes a person want to travel.


----------



## RichieRich

Manny T said:


> Under the circumstances, going on Amtrak for non-essential travel is just unfathomable to me.


I hear'ya. Canceled the April AT trip today. Called my AGR number, mentioned the high-risk group and virus... had absolutely NO problem receiving both a full charge-card credit AND reinstatement of points.


----------



## Rail Freak

RickIronton said:


> I just don't understand why Amtrak has not drastically reduced fares considering the virus?


It would defeat the purpose of what we're trying to do??? Social Distance. This could get to the point,where the US will see just how important the Rails Truly Are


----------



## TinCan782

Bob Dylan said:


> No to go or Curb side Service???
> 
> And what about the joints in Union Station including the New Pub and Big Bucks Coffee?


Posted this link earlier ...
"Traxx restaurant and bar, Imperial Western Beer Company, Café Crepe and Starbucks are temporarily closed. Other food service and amenities have limited hours of operation." 




__





Union Station Los Angeles


Welcome to Union Station




www.unionstationla.com


----------



## Suze10860

RickIronton said:


> I just don't understand why Amtrak has not drastically reduced fares considering the virus?






Rail Freak said:


> It would defeat the purpose of what we're trying to do??? Social Distance. This could get to the point,where the US will see just how important the Rails Truly Are



I guess what I don't understand is why they aren't reducing fares for travel 4-6 months from now. Honestly, I would be much more likely to plan ahead a book a trip this coming summer if I could do it right now at a good price. As it is, the prices still seem quite high.

And considering I had to cancel my much anticipated trip in early April, I really do want to book something - either the same trip or something different. But again, the fares now showing are not enticing me to do so.

Granted, I'm not a "business" person (I'm in education) but I would think it would be easier to get people to re-book if they were offering lower prices. But what do I know.


----------



## PVD

Nobody really knows what the timeline will be, or if specific areas will still be hot spots. Why kick the can down the road.


----------



## chakk

RickIronton said:


> I just don't understand why Amtrak has not drastically reduced fares considering the virus?



American Airlines is doing just that -- $32 one-way from LAX to DEN this week on many of their flights.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

The currently scheduled end of the cancellations period varies greatly depending on region. The NER and Acela are only reduced through March 29th as of now on the app, whereas Midwest train cancellations extend through the end of May.


----------



## jiml

MccfamschoolMom said:


> Kinda related to the liquor stores staying open, I've read that a number of liquor distilleries are producing high-proof "hand cleaner". Not sure if they're allowed to call it "hand sanitizer" yet, but it's at least the CDC-recommended 60% alcohol for disinfecting hands (and often a higher alcohol percentange). And in many cases, it's being distributed for free by the distilleries.


Labatt's breweries has just announced the switchover of an entire production line to produce hand sanitizer.


----------



## Samsbigtrip

OBS said:


> Unfortunately, several LD trains have been running out of Toilet Paper because passengers are stealing it. Also issues with toilets clogging because of the prevalent use of bacterial wipes by passengers who then proceed to flush them down the toilet....


Why? Why? Why do people do that? It's so disheartening to think of our fellow humans being so stupid and so selfish :-(


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

Samsbigtrip said:


> Why? Why? Why do people do that? It's so disheartening to think of our fellow humans being so stupid and so selfish :-(


I'm assuming it's a combination of ignorance and laziness. If the sleeping car attendants & conductors were to post signs right next to each toilet warning people NOT to flush disinfecting wipes down the toilets, would the wipe-flushers actually obey the signs, or ignore them?


----------



## peteypablo

Manny T said:


> My entire state is *ordered*_ to stay home_ -- no going outside except to access food, supplies, health care, walk the dog or exercise (individually). Fortunately, liquor stores are open, they are deemed to provide an essential service. This is until April 7th (at least).
> 
> Although not every state has implemented this, I assume this is for the _national_ good, not just for the good of our state.
> 
> Under the circumstances, going on Amtrak for non-essential travel is just unfathomable to me.



From talking to doctors preparing for the virus to spread, I gather that the most important reason to keep liquor stores open is to avoid filling hospitals with alcohol addicts in withdrawal. We have to do what we have to do.


----------



## SarahZ

peteypablo said:


> From talking to doctors preparing for the virus to spread, I gather that the most important reason to keep liquor stores open is to avoid filling hospitals with alcohol addicts in withdrawal. We have to do what we have to do.


That, and many liquor stores in big cities also sell groceries.


----------



## PaulDobbs

Just cancelled a Fort Worth-LA-Portland-Chicago-Fort Worth trip that I have had tickets for since December. The agent asked my reason, and I said I was 75, had diabetes and COPD, and it didn't seem like a good time for a pleasure trip. I got full refunds of both points and dollars (to my credit card).


----------



## Rasputin

I have recently watched Nos. 3 and 4 on the Flagstaff station webcam and this is what I could see:

No. 3 - March 22
Coach- 13 passengers off, 6 on
Sleeper - 5 off, 1 on

No. 4 - March 23
Coach - 6 off, 2 on
Sleeper - None off or on

Some passengers may get off only for a smoke break or to get some fresh air so they may have been counted twice and I may have missed others.


----------



## Asher

chakk said:


> American Airlines is doing just that -- $32 one-way from LAX to DEN this week on many of their flights.


They're also about ready to go under, don't book unless it's straight thru, no telling where you'll end up.


----------



## Seaboard92

MccfamschoolMom said:


> I'm assuming it's a combination of ignorance and laziness. If the sleeping car attendants & conductors were to post signs right next to each toilet warning people NOT to flush disinfecting wipes down the toilets, would the wipe-flushers actually obey the signs, or ignore them?



As someone who has posted these signs in train bathrooms I’m qualified to answer this. They just ignore the sign altogether. One time someone flushed the sign down the toilet. And this on a private car where the clientele are usually a bit more sophisticated and better educated on paper.


----------



## Maglev

I worked at a restaurant where we had to resort to cloth towels (which were IMPOSSIBLE to flush) because we could not keep people from flushing the paper towels. When I read a post about having wipes in the bathrooms on Amtrak, my first thought was that this meant trouble for Amtrak's very sensitive toilet systems.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Today's EB leaving Chicago only had one sleeper each for Portland and Seattle, but coach capacity was still normal with one Seattle coach and two Portland coaches.


----------



## Seaboard92

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Today's EB leaving Chicago only had one sleeper each for Portland and Seattle, but coach capacity was still normal with one Seattle coach and two Portland coaches.



The Portland train can never go under two coaches unless you add a conventional baggage car. This is due to the requirement to have ada seating in the lower level.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

OBS said:


> Unfortunately, several LD trains have been running out of Toilet Paper because passengers are stealing it. Also issues with toilets clogging because of the prevalent use of bacterial wipes by passengers who then proceed to flush them down the toilet....



Saw this on FB today. I think it was in a regional.


----------



## Bex

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> The currently scheduled end of the cancellations period varies greatly depending on region. The NER and Acela are only reduced through March 29th as of now on the app, whereas Midwest train cancellations extend through the end of May.


I just got a flurry of changed train messages today that go through May where I've been moved from the NER to trains like the Silver Meteor. So they may be adjusting day by day. (I'm sure I'll be cancelling all of these but right now I'm only WFH officially through the end of April). But I think the Acela is still only cancelled through 3/29 and after that it's something like 2x a day.


----------



## bryher

I haven't been able to read this whole thread so maybe this was discussed...

Assuming there's alot if cancellations when do you think well start seeing prices going down on LD sleeper fares? If it gets really bad (like many think) would amtrak start offering rock bottom deals? I'm talking months out. Hoping the fares would get so low it would be worth booking a LD sleeper trip in Hope's that things would be safer. I've been checking the Zephyr for July and Aug and still see prices as high as usual.


----------



## Maglev

Regarding low fares, I just checked price for Bedrooms from Seattle to Kissimmee next week, and got a price of $1861, which is a pretty good deal. Nothing "rock bottom," but if I were planning a trip I would jump on this. When I last checked, fare for next winter was around $4000.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Maglev said:


> Regarding low fares, I just checked price for Bedrooms from Seattle to Kissimmee next week, and got a price of $1861, which is a pretty good deal. Nothing "rock bottom," but if I were planning a trip I would jump on this. When I last checked, fare for next winter was around $4000.


Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire! Stay home and DONT Travel Now!!!


----------



## jebr

*Moderator note:* The title has been updated to reflect the full nature of the discussion in this thread.


----------



## mcropod

Bob Dylan said:


> Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire! Stay home and DONT Travel Now!!!



Especially to a place called Kiss me!


----------



## lordsigma

Based on the Amtrak website for reservations it appears the Vermonter bit the dust. The state supported portion of the route appears to be suspended and the train has been truncated to essentially a NHV-WAS Regional.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

lordsigma said:


> Based on the Amtrak website for reservations it appears the Vermonter bit the dust. The state supported portion of the route appears to be suspended and the train has been truncated to essentially a NHV-WAS Regional.


The Ethan Allen Express also appears to be cancelled.

That means the following route segments will now be without any Amtrak train service:
1. Chicago, IL-Grand Rapids, MI (Pere Marquette)
2. Everett, WA-Vancouver, BC (Cascades)
3. Montreal, QC-Schenectady, NY (Adirondack)
4. Niagara Falls, NY-Toronto, ON (Maple Leaf)
5. Philadelphia, PA-Pittsburgh, PA (Keystone Service and Pennsylvanian)
6. Rutland, VT-Schenectady, NY (Ethan Allen Express)
7. Springfield, MA-St. Albans, VT (Vermonter)


----------



## Shanghai

Maglev said:


> I got sick on our last vacation (I did get a flu shot). My wife said I don't wash my hands enough and touch my face too much. On the last day of our eight in Hawaii, I was coughing with a fever and chills, and could not get out of bed. It rained that day (only) anyway. The next day, we flew to Los Angeles, and then got on the _Coast Starlight _to Seattle_. _ I was still not feeling well, but was fine with traveling. However, I probably spread some unwelcome germs.


Glad you were well when we traveled together from Florida to Washington DC!! I canceled my March trips to Dallas and to San Francisco. I'm hopeful the virus situation will improve before July when we will travel to Chicago and in August to New York via Amtrak. I miss my train travel.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Shanghai said:


> Glad you were well when we traveled together from Florida to Washington DC!! I canceled my March trips to Dallas and to San Francisco. I'm hopeful the virus situation will improve before July when we will travel to Chicago and in August to New York via Amtrak. I miss my train travel.


How are things in your part of Florida Dick??


----------



## jiml

Empire Builder just passed Skykomish, WA, on webcam. One locomotive, Viewliner bag, one sleeper, diner, one coach. Even for off-season that's a small consist.


----------



## Bob Dylan

jiml said:


> Empire Builder just passed Skykomish, WA, on webcam. One locomotive, Viewliner bag, one sleeper, diner, one coach. Even for off-season that's a small consist.


The Question is Why is it still running taking/bringing potential Positive "Typhoid Marys" to/from a Hot Spot in the NW????

Shut er down!!!!


----------



## MikeM

I was just messing around looking at Fort Worth / Chicago fares; it appears that most fares are at second bucket, a few at low bucket in sleepers. No discounts lower than that. Surprisingly some sell outs on family rooms and bedrooms on some dates. Personally, I don't think I'd want to chance a trip right now, I'm happy sitting at home with my case of toilet paper and gallons of clorox bleach.


----------



## jebr

Bob Dylan said:


> The Question is Why is it still running taking/bringing potential Positive "Typhoid Marys" to/from a Hot Spot in the NW????
> 
> Shut er down!!!!



They're still essential links for those that need to get somewhere. Ideally, anyone that can wait to travel will do so, so social distancing can still happen on a shortened consist for those that must travel. It's the same reason that we haven't completely shut down air travel or the interstate network - some people must still travel, and having those links still available is vital.


----------



## Bob Dylan

jebr said:


> They're still essential links for those that need to get somewhere. Ideally, anyone that can wait to travel will do so, so social distancing can still happen on a shortened consist for those that must travel. It's the same reason that we haven't completely shut down air travel or the interstate network - some people must still travel, and having those links still available is vital.


Well have to agree to disagree! No Essential workers are riding Amtrak to California and Washington State on the LD Trains!

Shelter in Place should mean just that! 
The US does NOT want to become like Italy and now Spain!!! YMMV


----------



## quilttours

Bob Dylan said:


> Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire! Stay home and DONT Travel Now!!!





Bob Dylan said:


> Well have to agree to disagree! No Essential workers are riding Amtrak to California and Washington State on the LD Trains!
> 
> Shelter in Place should mean just that!
> The US does NOT want to become like Italy and now Spain!!! YMMV


I have a bus group of that I have reserved 10 roomettes and 4 bedrooms plus some coach seating. can't seem to get Amtrak to extend our cutoff date...we depart on July 3...we have to make a decision to cancel with full refund by April 1. Would like another month to think about it in hopes it will be safe...what are your thoughts regarding travel in July?


----------



## pennyk

I was just out for a walk and was walking near the tracks in downtown Orlando. I was pleased to see the northbound Silver Meteor (the same train on which I would have been traveling had my trip to NYC and BOS been canceled due to coronavirus). It appeared that the consist was "normal." Assuming I counted accurately, there were 2 engines, 3 coaches, cafe, sleeper lounge, 3 sleeper, baggage.


----------



## Night Ranger

quilttours said:


> I have a bus group of that I have reserved 10 roomettes and 4 bedrooms plus some coach seating. can't seem to get Amtrak to extend our cutoff date...we depart on July 3...we have to make a decision to cancel with full refund by April 1. Would like another month to think about it in hopes it will be safe...what are your thoughts regarding travel in July?


If I were in your shoes, and this is my opinion only, I would cancel to keep from losing all of that money. With the number of rooms you listed you stand to lose a considerable amount of money if you don't. Others may not be as risk-aversive as I am but that's my opinion. Other opinions may vary but that’s mine and it is based on a costly wrong guess I made a couple of years back involving some group travel.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Night Ranger said:


> If I were in your shoes, and this is my opinion only, I would cancel to keep from losing all of that money. With the number of rooms you listed you stand to lose a considerable amount of money if you don't. Others may not be as risk-aversive as I am but that's my opinion. Other opinions may vary but that’s mine and it is based on a costly wrong guess I made a couple of years back involving some group travel.


Ditto! Sound advice!!!


----------



## daybeers

quilttours said:


> I have a bus group of that I have reserved 10 roomettes and 4 bedrooms plus some coach seating. can't seem to get Amtrak to extend our cutoff date...we depart on July 3...we have to make a decision to cancel with full refund by April 1. Would like another month to think about it in hopes it will be safe...what are your thoughts regarding travel in July?


Have you tried asking for a supervisor when calling 1-800-USA-RAIL?


----------



## RichieRich

pennyk said:


> I was just out for a walk and was walking near the tracks in downtown Orlando. I was pleased to see the northbound Silver Meteor (the same train on which I would have been traveling had my trip to NYC and BOS been canceled due to coronavirus). It appeared that the consist was "normal." Assuming I counted accurately, there were 2 engines, 3 coaches, cafe, sleeper lounge, 3 sleeper, baggage.


But how many _passengers _is the question!


----------



## pennyk

RichieRich said:


> But how many _passengers _is the question!


Of course, I have no idea. I know there was an engineer that is about it (and I waved).


----------



## lordsigma

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> The Ethan Allen Express also appears to be cancelled.
> 
> That means the following route segments will now be without any Amtrak train service:
> 1. Chicago, IL-Grand Rapids, MI (Pere Marquette)
> 2. Everett, WA-Vancouver, BC (Cascades)
> 3. Montreal, QC-Schenectady, NY (Adirondack)
> 4. Niagara Falls, NY-Toronto, ON (Maple Leaf)
> 5. Philadelphia, PA-Pittsburgh, PA (Keystone Service and Pennsylvanian)
> 6. Rutland, VT-Schenectady, NY (Ethan Allen Express)
> 7. Springfield, MA-St. Albans, VT (Vermonter)


Holyoke, Northampton, and Greenfield, MA will still have a daily Valley Flyer round trip (northern extension of Hartford Line/Springfield shuttle 400 series train.) so it’s Greenfield - St. Albans with no service.


----------



## lordsigma

quilttours said:


> I have a bus group of that I have reserved 10 roomettes and 4 bedrooms plus some coach seating. can't seem to get Amtrak to extend our cutoff date...we depart on July 3...we have to make a decision to cancel with full refund by April 1. Would like another month to think about it in hopes it will be safe...what are your thoughts regarding travel in July?


as Day beers hinted, I’d give them a call and see if there’s a way you could get a one month extension to your deadline of canceling (and tell them you will cancel if they can not accommodate it.) I am holding off on canceling a June cross country trip because of the amount of planning that went into it, but I have additional time as the current cutoff is April 30....if the situation doesn’t improve I would hope Amtrak extends that deadline and doesn’t penalize folks that are trying to hold on to their reservations to see what happens.


----------



## lordsigma

I think the long distance service will run until directed otherwise federally. To be honest I think part of this is the agreement employees and trying to keep as many working as possible. The more workers in any industry that have to go on furlough or are laid off the harder it is going to be to recover from this economically. From a taxpayer impact and profit point of view yes it probably makes sense to suspend ALL of Amtrak right now...you can’t even argue right now that the Northeast Corridor is essential right now you are seeing some northeast regionals running with two coaches. I would imagine highway traffic is at an all time low and all the commuter carriers are also still running. I think this is really more about maintaining some level of operation so the company doesn’t have to completely shut down and furlough everyone.


----------



## Rasputin

Observations from the Flagstaff webcam:

No 3, March 25:
Sleeper passengers: One off, None on
Coach passengers: 9 off, 6 on

No. 4, March 26:
Sleeper passengers: None off, three on
Coach passengers: 2 off, 2 or 3 on
No. 4 had only one sleeper. Baggage car was on the rear.


----------



## Qapla

By the look of #3 when it went thru KC last night, there was no baggage car


----------



## Bob Dylan

Qapla said:


> By the look of #3 when it went thru KC last night, there was no baggage car


That's becoming the Norm! The Texas Eagle hasnt had one fof several months.

Maybe they can be used for Axle Count Cars instead of Passenger Cars, and Diners???!!!


----------



## quilttours

daybeers said:


> Have you tried asking for a supervisor when calling 1-800-USA-RAIL?


I have to go through group sales. in the past, I had a great person that was the supervisor in California...last year they moved the office to Pennsylvania and they are not as considerate..or shall I say as personal as they never let me talk to the same person and the supervisor will never talk to me...so as of last week, the person - Jennifer- I spoke with said she asked her supervisor and the contract stands...3 months out for cancelation...I am now thinking I will reschedule the trip for 2021...


----------



## quilttours

Night Ranger said:


> If I were in your shoes, and this is my opinion only, I would cancel to keep from losing all of that money. With the number of rooms you listed you stand to lose a considerable amount of money if you don't. Others may not be as risk-aversive as I am but that's my opinion. Other opinions may vary but that’s mine and it is based on a costly wrong guess I made a couple of years back involving some group travel.


another question...I was given a 5000.00 voucher as we go each year on a group Amtrak trip. we had problems and flooding and I was given the voucher to use within a year...if I cancel my trip, the total cost was 32,000.00 - the voucher...can I expect to loose the voucher or will they extend another year?


----------



## quilttours

thanks all, I have decided to try to reschedule the trip for 2020, hoping Amtrak doesn't make anymore changes to group travel restrictions...and hoping they will let me float the 5000.00 voucher I got for bad things that happened to the group the year before...it is a 12day trip and hoping all the hotels are will to work with me...


----------



## Bob Dylan

quilttours said:


> another question...I was given a 5000.00 voucher as we go each year on a group Amtrak trip. we had problems and flooding and I was given the voucher to use within a year...if I cancel my trip, the total cost was 32,000.00 - the voucher...can I expect to loose the voucher or will they extend another year?


You need to call Amtrak Customer Service, not a Regular Agent. This is Serious Money and the danger of Losing it is Real without proper handling by the Right people @ Amtrak.


----------



## lordsigma

Bailout for Amtrak: $492,000,000 for Northeast Corridor
$526,000,000, for national network


----------



## Bob Dylan

lordsigma said:


> Bailout for Amtrak: $492,000,000 for Northeast Corridor
> $526,000,000, for national network


Better than nothing, and it looks like Sen Schumer and the NY Delegation took care of the NEC!

Still peanuts when you look @ what the Airlines and all the "Corporate PoorBoys" will rake in!

Boeing is already crying "To Big to Fail" and I'm sure the other Lobbyist/Sharks for all the Corporations and the Wealthy are on Full Throttle!!


----------



## lordsigma

Amtrak’s bailout sounds like it’s basically to keep the employees getting their paycheck and to help cover related losses. I think the only trains getting any ridership right now are the Florida long distance trains.


----------



## v v

Bob Dylan said:


> That's becoming the Norm! The Texas Eagle hasnt had one fof several months.
> 
> Maybe they can be used for Axle Count Cars instead of Passenger Cars, and Diners???!!!



Does that mean no checked bags or they are stored elsewhere?


----------



## PVD

There is a S/L Bag coach that can be used when the baggage load is light, it has a baggage store on the lower level.


----------



## Bob Dylan

v v said:


> Does that mean no checked bags or they are stored elsewhere?


They have one of the Coach/Bag Superliners on these consists Jaime.( Bags are carried downstairs where the Disability Seats are on a Regular Superliner Coach.)

Hope yall are doing OK over there, I have a friend stranded in Spain ( hes from New York City, wisely not going back!)trying to get to the US via London.

He' s hoping to make it tomorrow, and then on to Chicago and to Arizona if it goes as booked???!!!( they're cancelling most Flights, No Ferries,Trains,busses etc). Basically hes in Solitary Confinemrnt, the Police check on him Hourly!!!

We had our first Hospital death here in Austin today, a 40 year old Male .56% of those with the Virus that are hospitalized are under 40!!!!!!

We now have the Most Cases in the World ,and it gonna get Much worse Scientist and Doctors say, but NOT Politicians!!!!

So far so good for me and mine, but MOST people are not Working and in Sheltter in Place which is good!

The Bad News is that 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 Expense,Live Pay Check to Pay Check and the Health Insurance is an iffy thing!

Amtrak is still running the LD Trains, but with Short consists and based on reports very few riders!


----------



## Qapla

Apparently, the SWC crept through LAP tonight without actually stopping - no one on or off. Evidently, based on comments, that is unusual.


----------



## Rasputin

From the Flagstaff webcam, No. 4 this morning had one sleeper, diner, Sightseer lounge car, two coaches and the baggage car on the rear.

It looked like there were 3 coach passengers off and 3 on. It didn't look like there were any sleeper passengers, off or on.


----------



## Asher

daybeers said:


> Have you tried asking for a supervisor when calling 1-800-USA-RAIL?



I'd cancel. With all the people involved who knows what your situation or others on your trip is going to be in July. Best to just re-wind and start over whenever things change.


----------



## tim49424

Bob Dylan said:


> You need to call Amtrak Customer Service, not a Regular Agent. This is Serious Money and the danger of Losing it is Real without proper handling by the Right people @ Amtrak.



Jim, Amtrak Customer Relations would be the department to ask for. Customer Services is the regular agents and they don't have the authority to issue refunds or vouchers.


----------



## west point

If this gentleman is correct deaths will be between 100k and 200k . If so we can probably expect more disruptions due to Amtrak crews getting exposed.








Trump backs off plan to reopen businesses by mid-April amid coronavirus warnings


President Donald Trump on Sunday extended his stay-at-home guidelines until the end of April, dropping a hotly criticized plan to get the economy up and running by mid-April after a top medical adviser said more than 100,000 Americans could die from the coronavirus outbreak.




www.reuters.com


----------



## Bob Dylan

tim49424 said:


> Jim, Amtrak Customer Relations would be the department to ask for. Customer Services is the regular agents and they don't have the authority to issue refunds or vouchers.


Your right,my bad!I meant Relations, Senior Moment!


----------



## tim49424

Bob Dylan said:


> Your right,my bad!I meant Relations, Senior Moment!



You're allowed Senior Moments, Jim, because every moment you're a senior. LOL


----------



## lordsigma

regular customer service and station agents can do the penalty free cancellation - you don’t have to go to customer relations (you must do it over the phone only for points reservations - station agents can do it for purchased tickets.) fees still apply on website or on app.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

From what we know about how easily the coronavirus spreads, how can long distance rail travel be justified at this critical time??? People are in close proximity for long periods in the dining car, observation lounge, passenger cars, etc; and to what extent do passengers or attendants sanitize restrooms after each use? 

I’m surprised this hasn’t been discussed more… and am interested in what discussion members think…!


----------



## niemi24s

Could COVID-19 be why there's no CZ service West of Denver for the next 13 days?


----------



## Thirdrail7

niemi24s said:


> Could COVID-19 be why there's no CZ service West of Denver for the next 13 days?



Consider we have an entire thread devoted to it (CZ has been affected by the virus), I would think the answer is yes.


----------



## Ryan

Given that @niemi24s has posted in that thread, I'm not sure why he's asking the question here.


----------



## niemi24s

Thanx! Finally found a link to this in a post from two weeks ago. . . Amtrak Advisory | Amtrak to Operate on Modified Schedules . . .that was updated yesterday to show no service between DEN and RNO. A quick check with Arrow also showed no service between RNO and EMY. Looks like the CZ is the only LD train with a reduced schedule or service curtailment - for now, at least.


----------



## Skyline

For those optimists who think Amtrak or anything else is on the verge of getting back to "normal," dream on.

Because we got such a late start dealing with C-19 in this country, we should not expect this to magically end on Easter, end of April, or anytime really until late summer at earliest. And by next winter it may start all over again with a new strain. 

We have some fantastic medical personnel from the very top (Fauci) to the rank-and-file who are working 24/7 now playing whack-a-mole. But their political boss(es) wouldn't even acknowledge a real problem until this month, for all the wrong (political) reasons. We are paying the price for that. We are almost on the same level as a third world country now.


----------



## Ryan

/me taps on the microphone...

Is this thing on???

There is no service past Denver, @niemi24s.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Skyline said:


> For those optimists who think Amtrak or anything else is on the verge of getting back to "normal," dream on.
> 
> Because we got such a late start dealing with C-19 in this country, we should not expect this to magically end on Easter, end of April, or anytime really until late summer at earliest. And by next winter it may start all over again with a new strain.
> 
> We have some fantastic medical personnel from the very top (Fauci) to the rank-and-file who are working 24/7 now playing whack-a-mole. But their political boss(es) wouldn't even acknowledge a real problem until this month, for all the wrong (political) reasons. We are paying the price for that. We are almost on the same level as a third world country now.


Except Third World Countries are doing Better! We Lead the WORLD in Cases and the Rate of [email protected]!!


----------



## Chey

So does anyone know how long it takes to get points back after cancelling?


----------



## niemi24s

As I'd suspected and according to this. . . CZ Cut To Denver, CO . . .this service reduction notice for the CZ was posted yesterday at 12:30pm. Had been making checks for missing CZ fares every day and all seemed normal until the day before yesterday. Then yesterday, no CZ service from CHI to West of Denver until 12 April 2020.

FWIW, was mildly interesting to see the progression of curtailments creep Eastward from RNO, then WNN and WIP and finally DEN. Must have been watching a work in progress all taking place yesterday afternoon!


----------



## Asher

20th Century Rider said:


> From what we know about how easily the coronavirus spreads, how can long distance rail travel be justified at this critical time??? People are in close proximity for long periods in the dining car, observation lounge, passenger cars, etc; and to what extent do passengers or
> attendants sanitize restrooms after each
> use?
> 
> Hard for me to figure why someone would want to travel by rail right now. If one must, then good luck.
> 
> I’m surprised this hasn’t been discussed more… and am interested in what discussion members think…!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

niemi24s said:


> As I'd suspected and according to this. . . CZ Cut To Denver, CO . . .this service reduction for the CZ went into effect yesterday. Had been making checks for missing CZ fares every day and all seemed normal until the day before yesterday. Then yesterday, no CZ service from CHI to West of Denver until 12 April 2020.


If somebody didn’t have me on ignore he would have known this yesterday. SMH


----------



## daybeers

I saw Hartford Line #464 today with a single Amfleet car sandwiched between two P42s. That's a lot of HP for 76 seats! I couldn't really tell how many passengers were on it.


----------



## lordsigma

Skyline said:


> For those optimists who think Amtrak or anything else is on the verge of getting back to "normal," dream on.
> 
> Because we got such a late start dealing with C-19 in this country, we should not expect this to magically end on Easter, end of April, or anytime really until late summer at earliest. And by next winter it may start all over again with a new strain.
> 
> We have some fantastic medical personnel from the very top (Fauci) to the rank-and-file who are working 24/7 now playing whack-a-mole. But their political boss(es) wouldn't even acknowledge a real problem until this month, for all the wrong (political) reasons. We are paying the price for that. We are almost on the same level as a third world country now.


It won’t ever “end” this virus will continue to be a threat for a long time and will return seasonally most likely - as we know the flu kills many people yearly. The key is taking this lock down time to improve testing, and the ability to identify and isolate cases rapidly like is being done In South Korea and improve our understanding of the disease and find more effective ways to treat serious cases. We are going to have a period of lock down and self isolation, but the idea that such a period must continue until this “ends” and the virus is no longer a threat would mean self isolating for the rest of our lives. It’s more a matter of getting the situation under control, getting the tools and learning how to effectively fight it and getting beyond the deadliest first wave of this virus. Once those are accomplished it will be necessary to relax restrictions - a prolonged unending stay at home as long as this virus exists that could last many months or maybe even a year or more is of course unsustainable and would likely result in deaths from other causes such as suicides - so we need to make best use of the time to work hard on improving our ability to fight and mitigate it to an acceptable level of risk once we allow society to resume. We aren’t there and we have a lot of work to do, but we should all hope that we will get there in a reasonable amount of time. I think end of May to early June is a reasonable amount of time to shoot for at least a beginning of a return to some normalcy. We will likely be in a worlds different position as far as our capabilities by then and hopefully have a better ability to mitigate the virus down to an acceptable level of risk.


----------



## Chey

Chey said:


> So does anyone know how long it takes to get points back after cancelling?



Never mind. The agent I originally spoke to got somehow disconnected. When I saw on my phone app that my trip was still listed I called back. This time I was rerouted to an AGR agent (I should have called them to begin with) who *immediately* cancelled the trip and refunded the points. No penalty.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

The reason we don’t want LD train suspensions is that if they are suspended there is an odds on chance they will never run again.


----------



## lordsigma

Green Maned Lion said:


> The reason we don’t want LD train suspensions is that if they are suspended there is an odds on chance they will never run again.


I think the Zephyr will be ok and will be back. Now if the chief or Sunset Limited got suspended I'd be a little more concerned.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

lordsigma said:


> I think the Zephyr will be ok and will be back. Now if the chief or Sunset Limited got suspended I'd be a little more concerned.



“In politics every crisis is an opportunity.” I put quotes because I am sure it is one although I don’t recall who.

Although I am not one who believes something like “an entire party and all of business is out to kill the Amtrak network if it is the last thing they do,” I do believe there is a cadre of people, mostly some lunatic anti-spenders and people in the freight rail industry, who would like Amtrak to go away, or at the very least, all subsidy to it- or have it fully privatized. I tend to think that the party I’m alluding to above is mostly indifferent, as Amtrak is a tiny fish in an overworked kitchen.

As long as the trains run, and they have some current supporters and riders, they will be somewhat difficult to kill. But once they are shut down, you need affirmative action to get them running again. There will be excuses by the rail industry about how they need to use all of their capacity to ‘recover’ from the Coronavirus (with some ring of truth to it, to be fair). There will be arguments about how public transportation is a massive disease vector (which is entirely true- but it remains essential because sick and mobile is normally better than well and under house arrest- I’m happy to risk a normal flu- I’ve gotten quite sick on Amtrak before- and yes I understand covid19 is different). There will be arguments - also true- that the effect of Covid-19 on ridership will last years- if not decades. And more.

What’s more, that Deluge of very plausible anti-Amtrak arguments will be present in an environment where the government will endlessly bust trying to clean up a social and economic mess that is not only certainly larger than most people can imagine or comprehend now, but likely far larger than even the comprehension I have that makes me make this statement. Amtrak will be vulnerable, require affirmative action to restart, and be fundamentally bupkes in the chaos, even to many on this website- the only exception being the truly transit dependent.

This pandemic is not only one of the worst (if not the worst) peacetime challenges our country has ever faced- it is also the worst challenge Amtrak has ever had to face. Doubt that at your peril.


----------



## OBS

Nice to have you back GML......


----------



## Maglev

Green Maned Lion, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

One particular point I would like to bring up is that social distancing has resulted in many meetings going online, and this trend may continue causing an overall reduction in demand for travel. I am not sure if there is more of an impact on corridor or long-distance travel.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Does anyone have information that the CZ cancellations will extend for the length of our current travel restrictions? If it is strictly because of an employee shortage, service should only be canceled for two weeks, which is what is currently indicated by the cancellation period for new bookings.


----------



## IndyLions

Green Maned Lion said:


> “In politics every crisis is an opportunity.” I put quotes because I am sure it is one although I don’t recall who.
> 
> Although I am not one who believes something like “an entire party and all of business is out to kill the Amtrak network if it is the last thing they do,” I do believe there is a cadre of people, mostly some lunatic anti-spenders and people in the freight rail industry, who would like Amtrak to go away, or at the very least, all subsidy to it- or have it fully privatized. I tend to think that the party I’m alluding to above is mostly indifferent, as Amtrak is a tiny fish in an overworked kitchen.
> 
> As long as the trains run, and they have some current supporters and riders, they will be somewhat difficult to kill. But once they are shut down, you need affirmative action to get them running again. There will be excuses by the rail industry about how they need to use all of their capacity to ‘recover’ from the Coronavirus (with some ring of truth to it, to be fair). There will be arguments about how public transportation is a massive disease vector (which is entirely true- but it remains essential because sick and mobile is normally better than well and under house arrest- I’m happy to risk a normal flu- I’ve gotten quite sick on Amtrak before- and yes I understand covid19 is different). There will be arguments - also true- that the effect of Covid-19 on ridership will last years- if not decades. And more.
> 
> What’s more, that Deluge of very plausible anti-Amtrak arguments will be present in an environment where the government will endlessly bust trying to clean up a social and economic mess that is not only certainly larger than most people can imagine or comprehend now, but likely far larger than even the comprehension I have that makes me make this statement. Amtrak will be vulnerable, require affirmative action to restart, and be fundamentally bupkes in the chaos, even to many on this website- the only exception being the truly transit dependent.
> 
> This pandemic is not only one of the worst (if not the worst) peacetime challenges our country has ever faced- it is also the worst challenge Amtrak has ever had to face. Doubt that at your peril.



Without getting too political, a big concern I have is that some will lump Amtrak in with the Green New Deal. Love it or hate it, the Green New Deal is extremely controversial and considered extreme by many. There will be a significant population shouting from the top of the mountaintop that anything associated with the Green New Deal must be shot down.


----------



## lordsigma

Green Maned Lion said:


> “In politics every crisis is an opportunity.” I put quotes because I am sure it is one although I don’t recall who.
> 
> Although I am not one who believes something like “an entire party and all of business is out to kill the Amtrak network if it is the last thing they do,” I do believe there is a cadre of people, mostly some lunatic anti-spenders and people in the freight rail industry, who would like Amtrak to go away, or at the very least, all subsidy to it- or have it fully privatized. I tend to think that the party I’m alluding to above is mostly indifferent, as Amtrak is a tiny fish in an overworked kitchen.
> 
> As long as the trains run, and they have some current supporters and riders, they will be somewhat difficult to kill. But once they are shut down, you need affirmative action to get them running again. There will be excuses by the rail industry about how they need to use all of their capacity to ‘recover’ from the Coronavirus (with some ring of truth to it, to be fair). There will be arguments about how public transportation is a massive disease vector (which is entirely true- but it remains essential because sick and mobile is normally better than well and under house arrest- I’m happy to risk a normal flu- I’ve gotten quite sick on Amtrak before- and yes I understand covid19 is different). There will be arguments - also true- that the effect of Covid-19 on ridership will last years- if not decades. And more.
> 
> What’s more, that Deluge of very plausible anti-Amtrak arguments will be present in an environment where the government will endlessly bust trying to clean up a social and economic mess that is not only certainly larger than most people can imagine or comprehend now, but likely far larger than even the comprehension I have that makes me make this statement. Amtrak will be vulnerable, require affirmative action to restart, and be fundamentally bupkes in the chaos, even to many on this website- the only exception being the truly transit dependent.
> 
> This pandemic is not only one of the worst (if not the worst) peacetime challenges our country has ever faced- it is also the worst challenge Amtrak has ever had to face. Doubt that at your peril.


I don't doubt it in the least. I agree with you in principle, I'd very much not be surprised if the crisis was used to try to justify some of the network changes they may want to push and try to ram them through, but I just don't see the Zephyr as the train that's going to get axed - I think it's one of the few that they actually want to run (a personal opinion of course.) As I said, I think there are other non-suspended ones that would still be more vulnerable than the Zephyr. Amtrak has a lot of support, and I would suspect the Zephyr has a lot of support from its congressional representation and I don't think that would change as the result of this suspension. I do not see a successful push to eliminate this particular train. Do I think some of the LD routes could be in peril when this is all done? Absolutely. But I think the current regime has a list of a few "favorites" they don't want to kill and I think the Zephyr is on that list.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Maglev said:


> Green Maned Lion, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. One particular point I would like to bring up is that social distancing has resulted in many meetings going online, and this trend may continue causing an overall reduction in demand for travel. I am not sure if there is more of an impact on corridor or long-distance travel.


Even though I can do 99% of my duties anywhere in the world my employer has been extremely hesitant to allow people to telecommute. For weeks they resisted sending anyone home and it took a joint directive from city and county authorities to convince them telecommuting was the right move. For a few days employees were stressed and confused but then things started to calm down and a sense of normalcy resumed. Now when someone coughs or sneezes you can laugh over the phone instead of recoiling in person. Guess how the people in charge feel about telecommuting now?



IndyLions said:


> Without getting too political, a big concern I have is that some will lump Amtrak in with the Green New Deal. Love it or hate it, the Green New Deal is extremely controversial and considered extreme by many. There will be a significant population shouting from the top of the mountaintop that anything associated with the Green New Deal must be shot down.


Will there ever come a time when we can stop catering to people who find science and math incompatible with their core beliefs but have no difficulty believing in vast worldwide conspiracies involving _millions_ of participants?


----------



## Skyline

IndyLions said:


> Without getting too political, a big concern I have is that some will lump Amtrak in with the Green New Deal. Love it or hate it, the Green New Deal is extremely controversial and considered extreme by many. There will be a significant population shouting from the top of the mountaintop that anything associated with the Green New Deal must be shot down.




The Green New Deal doesn't mesh with reinstating Amtrak trains at its level pre-C19. It's also never going to pass in present form. But it does provide a convenient talking point for people so inclined.


----------



## quilttours

Bob Dylan said:


> You need to call Amtrak Customer Service, not a Regular Agent. This is Serious Money and the danger of Losing it is Real without proper handling by the Right people @ Amtrak.


well now there is a new fold...I was told I had 90 days out to cancel...that would be April 3. I canceled on Monday March 30 and was told they had already sent out my tickets...earlier than my cut off date..no explanation, but now, when I call, they said they couldn't cancel without those tickets returned...they are in fed ex and are supposed to be returned on Thursday...and Friday the deadline...never before have they ticketed my group this early. It is usually about 3 weeks before we depart....and now they say they won't cancel me until they get their tickets back. If that is past the April 3 deadline, I will be penalized the 25%!


----------



## Bob Dylan

quilttours said:


> well now there is a new fold...I was told I had 90 days out to cancel...that would be April 3. I canceled on Monday March 30 and was told they had already sent out my tickets...earlier than my cut off date..no explanation, but now, when I call, they said they couldn't cancel without those tickets returned...they are in fed ex and are supposed to be returned on Thursday...and Friday the deadline...never before have they ticketed my group this early. It is usually about 3 weeks before we depart....and now they say they won't cancel me until they get their tickets back. If that is past the April 3 deadline, I will be penalized the 25%!


Call Customer Relations right now ( Patience!) and ask for a Supervisor to get this fixed, it should be doable!


----------



## Eric in East County

Have there been any documented cases of conductors, sleeping car attendants, dining car personnel, etc. on Amtrak LD trains testing positive for COVID-19 (aka Coronavirus)?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Eric in East County said:


> Have there been any documented cases of conductors, sleeping car attendants, dining car personnel, etc. on Amtrak LD trains testing positive for COVID-19 (aka Coronavirus)?


Yes, which is why the CZ is only running between CHI and DEN. At least one crew base west of DEN is in quarantine.


----------



## Qapla

Why not go the other way and cancel the Silvers north of Virginia and only run them south of there


----------



## Ryan

Why cancel them anywhere? There are some people for which it is essential to move from place to place.


----------



## Qapla

Ryan,

If you are referring to my post, it was a reply to a post in another thread and was moved here by the mods ... so, it is now "out of context" - sorry for the misunderstanding


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Facility In Bear Cleans Amtrak Trains From NY, NJ, One Worker COVID-19 Positive, Others Worried


Some workers at the Amtrak maintenance facility in Bear are worried that the may contract COVID-19 while at work after learning that a coworker has tested positive for the disease. Several people that are familiar with the situation tell First State Update that employees at the Amtrak Mechanical...




firststateupdate.com


----------



## Ryan

Qapla said:


> Ryan,
> 
> If you are referring to my post, it was a reply to a post in another thread and was moved here by the mods ... so, it is now "out of context" - sorry for the misunderstanding



What exactly makes it out of context? Are you not talking about changes to service patterns based on COVID-19?


----------



## Qapla

Ryan said:


> What exactly makes it out of context? Are you not talking about changes to service patterns based on COVID-19?



Yes, it was a comment about changes to service ... in answer to another comment about changes to service - the comment above mine had suggested


> Ideally with States South of the Tri-State not happy with New Yorkers fleeing into their States the best thing to do is cancel the* Silvers *and anything else South of NJ until the pandemic has waned.



Now, before these comments are deemed off topic again - by allowing the Silvers to run in the lower portion of the route instead of restricting it to the suggestion above - it would serve more people who are still traveling than it would by confining it north of NJ


----------



## Ryan

I'm not sure why you think that your comment is off topic in a thread about Amtrak and COVID-19.

And now we've come full circle and I ask you again - why cancel any portion of the route (because as you're no doubt aware, "confining it north of NJ" means it doesn't leave the station)?


----------



## Qapla

I'm sorry about the confusion.

I don't think it should be cancelled.

Someone else mention in another thread that the Silvers should/could be cancelled from NJ south. I responded to that idea. My post to their comment in the other thread was deemed off topic and moved here (the post I was answering was not moved). It showed up here displaced. Without the context you wondered why I made such a comment. I tired to explain ....

Again, sorry for the confusion ...

Let's get back to talking about C-19 and Amtrak


----------



## daybeers

Ryan said:


> Why cancel them anywhere? There are some people for which it is essential to move from place to place.


I completely support public transportation continuing to run at the moment due to essential workers who need it to commute, but long-distance trains? Not so much.



AmtrakBlue said:


> Facility In Bear Cleans Amtrak Trains From NY, NJ, One Worker COVID-19 Positive, Others Worried
> 
> 
> Some workers at the Amtrak maintenance facility in Bear are worried that the may contract COVID-19 while at work after learning that a coworker has tested positive for the disease. Several people that are familiar with the situation tell First State Update that employees at the Amtrak Mechanical...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> firststateupdate.com


Link doesn't work anymore ☹


----------



## Devil's Advocate

I think another valid concern, as mentioned in another post, is that once you suspend a service indefinitely it does not always come back again when things get better. To wit the Sunset East. The current makeup of the board and the administration concerns me in this regard.


----------



## zephyr17

Devil's Advocate said:


> I think another valid concern, as mentioned in another post, is that once you suspend a service indefinitely it does not always come back again when things get better. To wit the Sunset East. The current makeup of the board and the administration concerns me in this regard.


Unfortunately, I think this is an entirely plausible scenario.


----------



## Palmland

Rather than talking about what’s wrong with the policies of the opposing political party, it would be a whole lot more productive if both parties would work together during this global crises. There will be plenty of time for politics after this is over. I realize it’s wishful thinking but this is a time when we should be unified, as post 9/11, rather than divisive.


----------



## tricia

Palmland said:


> Rather than talking about what’s wrong with the policies of the opposing political party, it would be a whole lot more productive if both parties would work together during this global crises. There will be plenty of time for politics after this is over. I realize it’s wishful thinking but this is a time when we should be unified, as post 9/11, rather than divisive.


This is NOT a meet-in-the-middle moment. It's a time when we urgently need to act on the best science-based plan we can implement. When one party routinely disparages science and objective fact, moving in that direction is harmful, not helpful.


----------



## Rasputin

Amtrak (and plane) passengers arriving in Montana to be screened, but apparently not those travelling by private vehicle:









National Guard to Screen Montana Visitors Starting Friday - Flathead Beacon


The National Guard will start screening people who arrive in Montana by airplane or train beginning Friday to help slow the spread of the coronavirus, while nearly 20,000 residents filed new unemployment claims last week. The 73 Guardsmen will be deployed to 17 locations in 11 cities, said Maj...



flatheadbeacon.com


----------



## tomfuller

Yesterday's southbound Coast Starlight (11) did not leave Seattle. The northbound (14) will leave LAX this morning. Why can't Amtrak Police carry thermometers and ride the trains instead of having the National Guard standing on the platform?


----------



## Bob Dylan

tomfuller said:


> Yesterday's southbound Coast Starlight (11) did not leave Seattle. The northbound (14) will leave LAX this morning. Why can't Amtrak Police carry thermometers and ride the trains instead of having the National Guard standing on the platform?


Again, who really needs to ride LD Trains between "Hotspots" like California and Seattle??


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Bob Dylan said:


> Again, who really needs to ride LD Trains between "Hotspots" like California and Seattle??



The people who are buying tickets and riding them? An example would be.... someone who lost their job in LA and has family in Klamath Falls..... maybe they need to quickly move in with family because they can’t pay the rent anymore. 

That’s why a transit system exists....


----------



## nferr

crescent-zephyr said:


> The people who are buying tickets and riding them? An example would be.... someone who lost their job in LA and has family in Klamath Falls..... maybe they need to quickly move in with family because they can’t pay the rent anymore.
> 
> That’s why a transit system exists....



Within reason. Running a long distance train for maybe ten people in some kind of "hypothetical" situation makes little sense.


----------



## DaveW

some people can not fly and some train stops are not near airports

are the dining cars still cramming 4 strangers onto same table?


----------



## RichieRich

crescent-zephyr said:


> .... someone who lost their job in LA and has family in Klamath Falls..... maybe they need to quickly move in with family because they can’t pay the rent anymore.


So they will abandon their residence, leave everything they own behind??? Shut the door, leave it ALL to be disposed of by the landlord. The only personal property they will "move on" in life with is the clothes on their back? Is that what you're saying?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

nferr said:


> Within reason. Running a long distance train for maybe ten people in some kind of "hypothetical" situation makes little sense.


You’re forgetting about the people between the endpoints.


----------



## Bob Dylan

AmtrakBlue said:


> You’re forgetting about the people between the endpoints.


Who should stay @ Home just like we City Folk!!


----------



## crescent-zephyr

RichieRich said:


> So they will abandon their residence, leave everything they own behind??? Shut the door, leave it ALL to be disposed of by the landlord. The only personal property they will "move on" in life with is the clothes on their back? Is that what you're saying?



Of course not. I’m not working out details for a hypothetical person in LA.... maybe they ship it all in boxes or put it in storage? Idk.


----------



## OBS

FWIW, Train 5/6 tentatively scheduled to resume thru service on April 13....


----------



## Thirdrail7

DaveW said:


> are the dining cars still cramming 4 strangers onto same table?




No. Community dining has been suspended.


----------



## Bob Dylan

OBS said:


> FWIW, Train 5/6 tentatively scheduled to resume thru service on April 13....


Probably to early, especially with Chicago,Denver and the Bay Area being "Hot Spots"! 

Bus Drivers are getting Sick and even Passing Away, Railroaders and Amtrak staff are not exempt!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Bob Dylan said:


> Probably to early, especially with Chicago,Denver and the Bay Area being "Hot Spots"!
> 
> Bus Drivers are getting Sick and even Passing Away, Railroaders and Amtrak staff are not exempt!


Nurses & doctors are getting sick & dying. Should they stop work too? Some people need public transportation.


----------



## Bob Dylan

AmtrakBlue said:


> Nurses & doctors are getting sick & dying. Should they stop work too? Some people need public transportation.


I do understand Betty! But what happens when the Majority of the Non-Health Care workers are I'll? 

The Military can transport essential Workers if need be, just need SOMEBODY in Washington to Take Charge ( paging President Trump!)and Quit Playing "Ring around the Rosie"!( which was a Childs game in England during the Black Plague!)

Like I've said, we're ALL potential Carriers, listen to the Drs including Dr. Fuci and the Scientists.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Huh? We have people in Washington in charge, and they are keeping basic transit open. You can disagree with them, but they are in charge and making the decisions. 

I personally agree with them, basic transit needs to be available to people.


----------



## Bob Dylan

crescent-zephyr said:


> Huh? We have people in Washington in charge, and they are keeping basic transit open. You can disagree with them, but they are in charge and making the decisions.
> 
> I personally agree with them, basic transit needs to be available to people.


MEA CULPA!


----------



## quilttours

Bob Dylan said:


> Call Customer Relations right now ( Patience!) and ask for a Supervisor to get this fixed, it should be doable!


Thanks for following my saga...the tickets came fed ex and I was told to deny the delivery and it would be returned 3 business days, meaning Thursday and my due date was Friday...then I checked tracking yesterday and it said the delivery would be Monday. I got very excited and called fedex. they had not put it back for delivery until wed...so I spoke with a customer advocate at fed ex...she said she would call group sales at Amtrak to tell them is was their mistake..she called me back and said she had spoke to Jennifer and it was just fine...no penalty, just needed the tickets back...so with fedex documenting this and now me...I should be okay...but it is going to take 4-6 weeks for a refund.


----------



## v v

crescent-zephyr said:


> The people who are buying tickets and riding them? An example would be.... someone who lost their job in LA and has family in Klamath Falls..... maybe they need to quickly move in with family because they can’t pay the rent anymore.
> 
> That’s why a transit system exists....



Agree, there are many scenarios where people still need to travel, life isn't so predictable now and sometimes folk have to move from one place to another either over short or long distance for expected or unexpected reasons.


----------



## Ryan

RichieRich said:


> So they will abandon their residence, leave everything they own behind??? Shut the door, leave it ALL to be disposed of by the landlord. The only personal property they will "move on" in life with is the clothes on their back? Is that what you're saying?


A good number of people can carry everything they own on their person. With substantial overlap with the group of people without sufficient funds to pay their rent.


----------



## jebr

Ryan said:


> A good number of people can carry everything they own on their person. With substantial overlap with the group of people without sufficient funds to pay their rent.



Especially with Amtrak's generous luggage policies. I once helped someone move via Amtrak (yes, yes I know it's technically not allowed to use Amtrak's baggage allotment for that, but it was the best option at the time.) Between the two baggage allotments, we were able to either check or bring aboard everything we needed to move without any fees (there wasn't any furniture that we needed to bring with.) There's plenty of people who either don't have furniture or don't care much about their furniture (live in a hotel, everything bought secondhand and not worth the effort, etc.) that could throw everything they care about in a few bags.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

jebr said:


> I once helped someone move via Amtrak (yes, yes I know it's technically not allowed to use Amtrak's baggage allotment for that, but it was the best option at the time.)



That reminded me of one of my favorite memories riding the southbound Carolinian!! Somewhere along the way a guy got on with like 5 boxes and bags of stuff... I’m not sure how but he was stacking them up as we left the station, the coach attendant came in and said “umm you’re only allowed so many bags” and the guy said “well I’m moving” and the attendant replied in the most hilarious tone “well... this is Amtrak, this isn’t a moving van” 

I’m sure you had to be there, but the way the attendant responded in such a matter of fact way it was just hilarious.


----------



## Eric in East County

What is AMTRAK’s current policy about employees wearing protective face masks? Are conductors, sleeping car attendants, lounge car attendants, ticket agents, etc. wearing them? If so, is this optional or mandatory?


----------



## Bob Dylan

Eric in East County said:


> What is AMTRAK’s current policy about employees wearing protective face masks? Are conductors, sleeping car attendants, lounge car attendants, ticket agents, etc. wearing them? If so, is this optional or mandatory?


Where are they gonna get them from?


----------



## pennyk

I saw the Silver Star 92 come through Orlando yesterday with an odd consist. 3 engines and only one sleeper (with coaches but I did not count). The one sleeper indicates demand is way down.


----------



## John Bobinyec

Commencing April 6, the Carolinians will not be running.

jb


----------



## fdaley

I saw #49 passing through Hudson, NY, yesterday. Consist was one coach, Viewliner diner, one sleeper, two baggage cars. Bare bones, but I'm sure no one is traveling unless they really must. Given the situation in New York, I'm impressed the trains are still running for those who need them.


----------



## Barb Stout

RichieRich said:


> So they will abandon their residence, leave everything they own behind??? Shut the door, leave it ALL to be disposed of by the landlord. The only personal property they will "move on" in life with is the clothes on their back? Is that what you're saying?


They ship what they can't carry. You really don't know anyone who has had to do this?


----------



## Rasputin

Eric in East County said:


> What is AMTRAK’s current policy about employees wearing protective face masks? Are conductors, sleeping car attendants, lounge car attendants, ticket agents, etc. wearing them? If so, is this optional or mandatory?



Based on the Flagstaff webcam, the only Amtrak employee on 3 or 4 that I have seen wearing a mask has been the engineer on No. 3 which arrived at Flagstaff April 3rd. Appeared to be a cloth mask.


----------



## Thirdrail7

Eric in East County said:


> What is AMTRAK’s current policy about employees wearing protective face masks? Are conductors, sleeping car attendants, lounge car attendants, ticket agents, etc. wearing them? If so, is this optional or mandatory?



It is optional but recommended. However, this comes into play:




Bob Dylan said:


> Where are they gonna get them from?



You have to find them first!




John Bobinyec said:


> Commencing April 6, the Carolinians will not be running.
> 
> jb



As I understand it, this has more to do with track work. All things being equal, it would likely be canceled from NYP to RGH MON-THU anyway.


----------



## pennyk

pennyk said:


> I saw the Silver Star 92 come through Orlando yesterday with an odd consist. 3 engines and only one sleeper (with coaches but I did not count). The one sleeper indicates demand is way down.


I saw 92 again this evening. There were 2 engines, 2 coaches, cafe, 1 sleeper, baggage


----------



## Devil's Advocate

RichieRich said:


> So they will abandon their residence, leave everything they own behind??? Shut the door, leave it ALL to be disposed of by the landlord. The only personal property they will "move on" in life with is the clothes on their back? Is that what you're saying?








Bob Dylan said:


> Where are they gonna get them from?


From the toilet paper and sanitizer store, duh.


----------



## me_little_me

crescent-zephyr said:


> Of course not. I’m not working out details for a hypothetical person in LA.... maybe they ship it all in boxes or put it in storage? Idk.


Or left it with friends or gave it to a roomie or they were in a furnished apartment or had an important assignment in temporary lodging that's now ended or are keeping their apartment but moving elsewhere for a few months. There are probably lots more reasons. I agree with you. People travel for many reasons and it doesn't mean they'll be gone forever.

If something happened to me or my wife (unrelated to virus), we'd probably travel to where one of the kids live so we'd have some support. Empty the fridge, lock up the house and move there for a few months or one of the kids would move here to help us, doing the same with their place.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. There is a case for necessary travel intercity.


----------



## Maverickstation

The Downeaster will have a 1 Round Trip per day scheduled starting this week, and the Cafe Service will be suspended.









Amtrak further limits Downeaster service in response to COVID-19


Starting Monday, the rail line will operate only one round trip per day between Brunswick and Boston.




www.pressherald.com





Stay safe.

Ken


----------



## tricia

AP article on use of trains to move COVID-19 patients in France: France turns to speedy trains to catch up in virus response

Something Amtrak might be drafted for? Depends on relative locations of patients, hospitals, and train routes, I guess. 

Here's a quote: "The first “medicalized” TGV made its inaugural trip on March 26. Doctors in protective gear pushed gurneys along the nearly empty platform of the train station in the eastern city of Strasbourg as safety warnings echoed from loudspeakers. Inside the double-decker cars, patients and webs of tubes and wires were squeezed past luggage racks and rows of seats. Once they were secured, the train sped off toward less impacted hospitals in the west. "


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

me_little_me said:


> Or left it with friends or gave it to a roomie or they were in a furnished apartment or had an important assignment in temporary lodging that's now ended or are keeping their apartment but moving elsewhere for a few months. There are probably lots more reasons. I agree with you. People travel for many reasons and it doesn't mean they'll be gone forever.
> 
> If something happened to me or my wife (unrelated to virus), we'd probably travel to where one of the kids live so we'd have some support. Empty the fridge, lock up the house and move there for a few months or one of the kids would move here to help us, doing the same with their place.
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly with you. There is a case for necessary travel intercity.


When I was researching moving companies while my daughter was job-hunting, I found YouTube videos of at least one couple who had done a cross-country move using Amtrak to ship their stuff. (They were fortunate enough to be moving to and from cities with Amtrak stations which handled checked baggage at both ends.) They may have still loaded up their car (or cars) and driven between the two cities, but the rest of their stuff was shipped as checked baggage (freight?) via Amtrak. I suspect most or all of their furniture was replaced when they arrived in the new city, though.
This video is not the one I remembered seeing, but she used "Amtrak Express Shipping", too.


----------



## daybeers

I'm just afraid people are still using Amtrak for vacation-related reasons due to not taking the virus seriously or their state government not taking it seriously. That's what concerns me. And the people who might be moving but are also asymptomatic with the virus.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

daybeers said:


> I'm just afraid people are still using Amtrak for vacation-related reasons due to not taking the virus seriously or their state government not taking it seriously. That's what concerns me. And the people who might be moving but are also asymptomatic with the virus.



You have very little to be concerned about regarding people taking a vacation. It would have to be someone like me who only wanted a train ride... and even someone like me decided the risk was too great. Both the risk of the virus and the risk of getting stuck somewhere with little option of getting home.


----------



## v v

Our friend Milton has just travelled from Los Angeles to Syracuse, NY by Southwest Chief and the Lake Shore Limited. He spends the three winter months in LA, then back to his farm to farm for the rest of the year. He needs the winter sunshine boost as he is no longer quite as young as he was, and he doesn't fly.

He emailed us to let us know he managed the journey safely, but the standout comment in a short email was the trip was surreal, and it's not the type of word Milton would use so we are just waiting to hear in a few days what happened.

Have to add he has used this route for about 60 years at least once each way each year so a very experienced Amtrak rider. If it is of any interest to those reading this thread what a right up to date virus influenced 2 1/2 day LD Amtrak journey is like I'll ask if it is ok to publish a little of the story here, just let me know.


----------



## MikeM

v v said:


> Our friend Milton has just travelled from Los Angeles to Syracuse, NY by Southwest Chief and the Lake Shore Limited. He spends the three winter months in LA, then back to his farm to farm for the rest of the year. He needs the winter sunshine boost as he is no longer quite as young as he was, and he doesn't fly.
> 
> He emailed us to let us know he managed the journey safely, but the standout comment in a short email was the trip was surreal, and it's not the type of word Milton would use so we are just waiting to hear in a few days what happened.
> 
> Have to add he has used this route for about 60 years at least once each way each year so a very experienced Amtrak rider. If it is of any interest to those reading this thread what a right up to date virus influenced 2 1/2 day LD Amtrak journey is like I'll ask if it is ok to publish a little of the story here, just let me know.



Please, do tell! It would be interesting to hear what precautions they're using on the train, how the crew morale is holding up, etc. This whole experience has been one for the record books.


----------



## MARC Rider

My dematologist is in Washington. I'm in Baltimore. Because he detected some melanoma last fall (and I had the cancerous mole removed, so I'm fine), I have to visit him every three months for a "head-to-toe" scan. The last one he was able to do via telemedicine, and he didn't find anything. However, if he had found something in the scan, I would have been forced to travel to Washington for an excision and biopsy. This can't be done by telemedicine. Even Dr. McCoy on the _Starship Enterprise_ can't do something like that remotely. This I would have needed to travel to Washington to have the procedure done. Even with the shelter in place, etc., I would prefer not to have to drive all the way to Washington, it's a very tedious and stressful trip. Thus I would have either ridden Amtrak or MARC down and ridden the Metro from Union Station to the doctor's office.

The point of this is that despite the term "lockdown," there are still legitimate reasons why people might be traveling. I suspect we would all be better off if we just worried about our own behavior rather than attempting to police that of others.

By the way, given the apparent low passenger loads, riding the train may be just about as safe as driving. I know that on my last transit rides of March 10 on the Boston T and the Acela, I had no trouble conforming to the social distancing guidelines.


----------



## niemi24s

A gentle reminder for those still in Florida looking for low bucket fares to head North. If you hadn't already noticed, come 1 May sleeper fares on the SS will rise from 19% to 77% (bucket-for-bucket) and become equal to those on the SM. There's no change in Coach fares as they remain the same:




Use AmSnag to see the actual differences.


----------



## Anderson

MARC Rider said:


> My dematologist is in Washington. I'm in Baltimore. Because he detected some melanoma last fall (and I had the cancerous mole removed, so I'm fine), I have to visit him every three months for a "head-to-toe" scan. The last one he was able to do via telemedicine, and he didn't find anything. However, if he had found something in the scan, I would have been forced to travel to Washington for an excision and biopsy. This can't be done by telemedicine. Even Dr. McCoy on the _Starship Enterprise_ can't do something like that remotely. This I would have needed to travel to Washington to have the procedure done. Even with the shelter in place, etc., I would prefer not to have to drive all the way to Washington, it's a very tedious and stressful trip. Thus I would have either ridden Amtrak or MARC down and ridden the Metro from Union Station to the doctor's office.
> 
> The point of this is that despite the term "lockdown," there are still legitimate reasons why people might be traveling. I suspect we would all be better off if we just worried about our own behavior rather than attempting to police that of others.
> 
> By the way, given the apparent low passenger loads, riding the train may be just about as safe as driving. I know that on my last transit rides of March 10 on the Boston T and the Acela, I had no trouble conforming to the social distancing guidelines.


(1) I can concur with the assertion in re the load factors. On my trip to FL a few weeks ago:
-SB on 97, I had a sleeper to myself RIC-JAX (the train terminated there).
-NB on 92, I had one other person in my sleeper originating in SAV. Of course, they got plopped in the room across from me...*eyerolls*


----------



## gwolfdog

v v said:


> Our friend Milton has just travelled from Los Angeles to Syracuse, NY by Southwest Chief and the Lake Shore Limited. He spends the three winter months in LA, then back to his farm to farm for the rest of the year. He needs the winter sunshine boost as he is no longer quite as young as he was, and he doesn't fly.
> 
> He emailed us to let us know he managed the journey safely, but the standout comment in a short email was the trip was surreal, and it's not the type of word Milton would use so we are just waiting to hear in a few days what happened.
> 
> Have to add he has used this route for about 60 years at least once each way each year so a very experienced Amtrak rider. If it is of any interest to those reading this thread what a right up to date virus influenced 2 1/2 day LD Amtrak journey is like I'll ask if it is ok to publish a little of the story here, just let me know.


----------



## gwolfdog

Interested, also from Syracuse. Took Auto Train to Florida, then trip back was cancelled after Derailment. Asked Condo Owner to extend lease and now looking for Safe Way home. Whom am I kidding?


----------



## v v

Don't expect to hear from Milton for another day or so, and if he OK's me repeating his experience here it will be short, a man of few words. I'll drop him a line tonight to explain that others are interested as it affects them now. He's a kind person so hope he will oblige.


----------



## Rover

Texas Gov. Abbott has just announced in an ongoing Press Conference that there will be checkpoints by the state at the border of La. So this is for all vehicle traffic and trucks, I'd assume.

I'm wondering though, how will this affect Amtrak from New Orleans. Or bus service into Texas from La. for that matter.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Rover said:


> Texas Gov. Abbott has just announced in an ongoing Press Conference that there will be checkpoints by the state at the border of La. So this is for all vehicle traffic and trucks, I'd assume.
> 
> I'm wondering though, how will this affect Amtrak from New Orleans. Or bus service into Texas from La. for that matter.


Wonder if they’ll let church goers come into the state.


----------



## Bob Dylan

AmtrakBlue said:


> Wonder if they’ll let church goers come into the state.


Unfortunately our Gov has allowed People to go to Church Services in Texas and there were Thousands that went on Palm Sunday, Many more Expected on Easter!


----------



## DonNewcomb

crescent-zephyr said:


> IF I were to go I’d for sure be getting a sleeper!!


But my question was a specific reply to a comment about riding coach.


jiml said:


> Labatt's breweries has just announced the switchover of an entire production line to produce hand sanitizer.


I read that Modelo is suspending the brewing of beer, including Corona, owing to it being judged non-essential by the Mexican Govt.


----------



## lonewolfette9847

Happened to notice NE Regional Train 173 has resumed service as of yesterday (4/6). It was suspended after the 3/13 run.


----------



## MARC Rider

Rover said:


> Texas Gov. Abbott has just announced in an ongoing Press Conference that there will be checkpoints by the state at the border of La. So this is for all vehicle traffic and trucks, I'd assume.
> 
> I'm wondering though, how will this affect Amtrak from New Orleans. Or bus service into Texas from La. for that matter.


Well, guess I'll have to drive up to Texarkana and cross over into Texas there.  
More security theater, a waste of taxpayer money, and it won't do much to contain the epidemic by this point.


----------



## Palmland

crescent-zephyr said:


> The people who are buying tickets and riding them? An example would be.... someone who lost their job in LA and has family in Klamath Falls..... maybe they need to quickly move in with family because they can’t pay the rent anymore.
> 
> That’s why a transit system exists....



While the circumstances were far different than now, we did encounter in the dining car a young sing;e mother and daughter on the Sunset some years ago. They were going from NOL to LAX to start a new life after leaving an unhappy home in Florida. They were taking the train because they could ship all their belongings with them in the baggage car. A sad story but they were full of hope.


----------



## gwolfdog

I just re-booked a WC Room on the Auto Train for 4/15. My prior reservation was cancelled after the Derailment. (no stress there) Have a WC Van, only my wife drives, and with all our crap we brought down, we just had to make a decision. Syracuse doesn't seem much worst than Pompeno Beach at this time, Covid-19 wise. But who knows, we're both in High Risk Group and maybe will get lucky and no one will cough on us. Hate the Stations, overcrowded and insane. Anyone have any tips, besides masks and sanitizers, would appreciate, ESPECIALLY, recent travelers.


----------



## pennyk

gwolfdog said:


> I just re-booked a WC Room on the Auto Train for 4/15. My prior reservation was cancelled after the Derailment. (no stress there) Have a WC Van, only my wife drives, and with all our crap we brought down, we just had to make a decision. Syracuse doesn't seem much worst than Pompeno Beach at this time, Covid-19 wise. But who knows, we're both in High Risk Group and maybe will get lucky and no one will cough on us. Hate the Stations, overcrowded and insane. Anyone have any tips, besides masks and sanitizers, would appreciate, ESPECIALLY, recent travelers.


My guess is that Syracuse may be "safer" than South Florida. In Florida, we have not yet reached our peak. My guess, under the guide of Governor Cuomo, New York residents may be taking things more seriously than Florida residents. I wish I had words of wisdom other than I wish you and your wife the best. If you can find Nitrile gloves, they may be helpful, but definitely masks, sanitizers, etc. ☮


----------



## IndyLions

If you haven’t started already - work REALLY HARD to break the common human habit of touching your face. Supposedly most people (pre-pandemic at least) do it many times an hour. Getting your hands near your eyes and nostrils are supposedly the most common points of entry.

Supposedly drinking lots of water is also a good thing.


----------



## Qapla

Wearing Nitrile gloves is a very good idea .... but, remember to sanitize the gloves the same as you would your hands!

Including sanitizing them just before you take them off to discard them - it doesn't do any good to wear them if you are going to touch the outside of them with your bare hands when you remove them in the gloves have not been sanitized.


----------



## NW cannonball

Good attitude, Ed
Nobody knows what the future will bring. Like the old Austrian saying -- Life's uncertain, so eat dessert first.
Me, I actually saw and spoke with my daughter today, keeping 3 meter distance. They live a walkable 5 miles away. I even got to shout and wave to the pre-school grandkids for the first time in two weeks, they in their dad's car and 20 feet away. 
About non-adult beverages, the reason my daughter came 3 meters close was to get empty milk bags. Cause she donates breast milk. I donate blood. 
I'm on the wait-list here to donate blood, seems folks are so far responding to the covid decline in blood donations here very positively, all appointments booked two weeks out. 

Amtrak-related life changes -- my daughter's family and in-laws had planned and reserved a 5-day vacation in Chicago for 4 adults, 4 kids.
that's not happening. Good to know they get refund, no penalty.


----------



## pennyk

pennyk said:


> I saw 92 again this evening. There were 2 engines, 2 coaches, cafe, 1 sleeper, baggage


Same consist on 92 today coming through Orlando (on time).


----------



## Ziv

When you take off gloves, take the first one off by the inside of the wrist. Pull it off without touching the outside of the glove but allow the glove to go fully inside out. Then roll it up and remove the other glove in the same way. Put the first glove inside the second inverted glove without touching the buggy parts of either. Then tie the wrist of the outside glove, sealing the inside glove away. Put in a plastic bag and get rid of the plastic bag soon. 
This is not the time to use a reusable plague bag, use disposable plastic bags from the grocery store. They may be buggy, but they are nowhere near as dirty as most reusable shopping bags.



Qapla said:


> Wearing Nitrile gloves is a very good idea .... but, remember to sanitize the gloves the same as you would your hands!
> 
> Including sanitizing them just before you take them off to discard them - it doesn't do any good to wear them if you are going to touch the outside of them with your bare hands when you remove them in the gloves have not been sanitized.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

How to Safely Remove Disposable Gloves | Globus


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

AmtrakBlue said:


> View attachment 17238


I can see that the image depicts the previously-described least-germy method of removing nitrile gloves; however, the image is a bit small. Can you provide a link to a larger version of the image?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

MccfamschoolMom said:


> I can see that the image depicts the previously-described least-germy method of removing nitrile gloves; however, the image is a bit small. Can you provide a link to a larger version of the image?





How to Safely Remove Disposable Gloves | Globus



I just googled "how to remove surgical gloves" and took the first one.


----------



## NW cannonball

AmtrakBlue said:


> View attachment 17238


Yup, be careful not to let the outsides of the gloves touch your hands. And wash hands thoroughly afterwards. And before.
My retired Nurse Anesthetist friend (who has had "hands on" experience with various infected and immuno-compromised people for decades) says that masks aren't magic, gloves and masks can fail, use them properly, and
*Wash your hands.*


----------



## lordsigma

gwolfdog said:


> I just re-booked a WC Room on the Auto Train for 4/15. My prior reservation was cancelled after the Derailment. (no stress there) Have a WC Van, only my wife drives, and with all our crap we brought down, we just had to make a decision. Syracuse doesn't seem much worst than Pompeno Beach at this time, Covid-19 wise. But who knows, we're both in High Risk Group and maybe will get lucky and no one will cough on us. Hate the Stations, overcrowded and insane. Anyone have any tips, besides masks and sanitizers, would appreciate, ESPECIALLY, recent travelers.


Practice distancing at the Sanford station - my understanding is they have some special outdoor seating set up to allow for some extra distancing. If you have any sanitizing wipes, wipe common touch surfaces if possible in your room before touching. Stay in your sleeper room as much of the journey as possible and I might consider avoiding the shared beverage coffee station in your car if you can go without it - bring your own snacks/beverages if you want to avoid the lounge car and accept your dinner from the dining car in your room (which I think they're doing for everyone right now.) When you get to Lorton again practice distancing at the station and if you can wipe down surfaces the loading/unloading crew may have touched when you get your vehicle - steering wheel, shifting lever/column, seatbelt and seatbelt latch, door latches, window buttons, etc. And lastly, when you return home to Syracuse, self quarantine for 14 days.


----------



## City of Miami

lonewolfette9847 said:


> Happened to notice NE Regional Train 173 has resumed service as of yesterday (4/6). It was suspended after the 3/13 run.


171 and 176 (formerly Lynchburgers) is back since Monday. They were running the weekend schedule for a couple of weeks.


----------



## gwolfdog

Qapla said:


> Wearing Nitrile gloves is a very good idea .... but, remember to sanitize the gloves the same as you would your hands!
> 
> Including sanitizing them just before you take them off to discard them - it doesn't do any good to wear them if you are going to touch the outside of them with your bare hands when you remove them in the gloves have not been sanitized.


Good tip. Maybe I'll get a pair of Boxing Gloves to avoid touching face.


----------



## gwolfdog

lordsigma said:


> Practice distancing at the Sanford station - my understanding is they have some special outdoor seating set up to allow for some extra distancing. If you have any sanitizing wipes, wipe common touch surfaces if possible in your room before touching. Stay in your sleeper room as much of the journey as possible and I might consider avoiding the shared beverage coffee station in your car if you can go without it - bring your own snacks/beverages if you want to avoid the lounge car and accept your dinner from the dining car in your room (which I think they're doing for everyone right now.) When you get to Lorton again practice distancing at the station and if you can wipe down surfaces the loading/unloading crew may have touched when you get your vehicle - steering wheel, shifting lever/column, seatbelt and seatbelt latch, door latches, window buttons, etc. And lastly, when you return home to Syracuse, self quarantine for 14 days.


Hope you're right about Sanford Special Seating. Have called the stations about Health concerns, but no one picks up!! I'll be in my Power WC but that wouldn't help my wife. unless I drive her around on my lap. Headed outside when we get there. Paid extra for first cars off at Lorton and will spray down inside. Six hour drive back to Syracuse with as few stops as possible. 14 days will be a picnic, being at HOME. Thanks.


----------



## Barb Stout

Qapla said:


> Including sanitizing them just before you take them off to discard them - it doesn't do any good to wear them if you are going to touch the outside of them with your bare hands when you remove them in the gloves have not been sanitized.



That's fine, but it's actually pretty easy to remove gloves without touching the outside of them. They pretty much turn themselves inside out during removal.

----------Removing gloves for over 35 years----------


----------



## Barb Stout

Ziv said:


> When you take off gloves, take the first one off by the inside of the wrist.


No, take the first glove off by catching the OUTSIDE wrist section of the first glove with the finger of your other still gloved hand and pulling. Then use a finger from your now free hand to dip inside the wrist section of the other glove to pull that one off.

----------------Removing gloves for over 35 years---------------------


----------



## Barb Stout

NW cannonball said:


> Yup, be careful not to let the outsides of the gloves touch your hands. And wash hands thoroughly afterwards. And before.
> My retired Nurse Anesthetist friend (who has had "hands on" experience with various infected and immuno-compromised people for decades) says that masks aren't magic, gloves and masks can fail, use them properly, and
> *Wash your hands.*


Happily, gloves make the hands smell bad, so that is extra incentive to wash the hands after removing the gloves.

-----------Removing gloves for over 35 years---------------


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

Bob Dylan said:


> Stay Safe Eddie! At least your Head of State is a Human Being!!


Not from what I've been seeing on the news....


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Not from what I've been seeing on the news....



Blaming Covid-19 on the Daleks makes slightly more sense than blaming it on 5G cell phone towers . . .


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

MccfamschoolMom said:


> Blaming Covid-19 on the Daleks makes slightly more sense than blaming it on 5G cell phone towers . . .


The Daleks would probably brag....


----------



## me_little_me

Qapla said:


> Wearing Nitrile gloves is a very good idea .... but, remember to sanitize the gloves the same as you would your hands!
> 
> Including sanitizing them just before you take them off to discard them - it doesn't do any good to wear them if you are going to touch the outside of them with your bare hands when you remove them in the gloves have not been sanitized.


You take the first one off by grabbing the outside of the other one near the wrist. You take the second one off by slipping the now-bare hand under the glove so you are between the inside of the glove and your gloved hand then just pull it off so it is inside out.
Did it that way as a Red Cross volunteer in the past.


----------



## lordsigma

gwolfdog said:


> Hope you're right about Sanford Special Seating. Have called the stations about Health concerns, but no one picks up!! I'll be in my Power WC but that wouldn't help my wife. unless I drive her around on my lap. Headed outside when we get there. Paid extra for first cars off at Lorton and will spray down inside. Six hour drive back to Syracuse with as few stops as possible. 14 days will be a picnic, being at HOME. Thanks.


You could try asking the call center (1800 USA RAIL) to see if they know, but I have heard at least one first hand report mentioning that they have made some provisions at Sanford to spread out where people are waiting with some covered seating areas outside or something along those lines.


----------



## dlagrua

The Corona virus has had an effect on everything it seems, and Amtrak is no exception. I just read that Amtraks ridership is off by 90%. The good news is that last Friday transportation secretary Elaine Chao announced that Amtrak has been given $1 billion in federal emergency assistance. Of this aid $239 million will go to the state supported routes. What surprises me most is that fares do not seem to have gone down as a result of the downturn in ridership. What happened to the supply and demand theory? 
In five days William Flynn takes over as CEO and will have the task of attracting passengers back to the rails. How he will do this remains to be seen but in the early years the emphasis on comfort of train travel was promoted. Then Anderson comes along and does everything possible to decrease the comfort of the experience. So how will Amtrak build the ridership back up?


----------



## Qapla

In five days Flynn's main concern should not be how to attract large numbers of riders back to the rails - but should be concentrated on helping Amtrak remain a useful, essential means of transportation during this crisis. This may include doing what he can to prepare any unused equipment for its return to service when the time comes.

In the long term, he could spend some of his time reviewing the downfalls of the system Anderson put in place and make plans to reverse the damage done to Amtrak. Perhaps if he did this, without the "advice" of Mr. Anderson, he would be in a better position to not only restore rail travel when the time comes - but to also restore confidence in Amtrak riders, especially those long-time riders, to select rail as a viable means of travel instead of what taking a back seat to other forms of travel.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Yeah.... I would expect a national “do not travel” advisory to have a slight affect on ridership.


----------



## Thirdrail7

I think the last of the Downeaster service will run this weekend. Then, it will halt service until May.


We’ll See.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

dlagrua said:


> What surprises me most is that fares do not seem to have gone down as a result of the downturn in ridership. What happened to the supply and demand theory?


Maybe to discourage non-essential travel?? Maybe to not lose any more money than they already have??


----------



## pennyk

pennyk said:


> Same consist on 92 today coming through Orlando (on time).


I saw a very late Silver Meteor 98 come through Orlando this evening. Consist was one engine (maybe because one got damaged in the accident with a vehicle in South Florida this morning), 2 coaches, cafe car, sleeper lounge, 2 sleepers, baggage.


----------



## Bob Dylan

pennyk said:


> I saw a very late Silver Meteor 98 come through Orlando this evening. Consist was one engine (maybe because one got damaged in the accident with a vehicle in South Florida this morning), 2 coaches, cafe car, sleeper lounge, 2 sleepers, baggage.


2 Sleepers???
Must be lots of Snowbirds getting out of the Frying Pan into the Fire!


----------



## IndyLions

I can say one thing for sure. In the short term, after the crisis subsides and people start tentatively traveling again - there isn’t going to be a hue and cry for traditional dining service. People coming out of this crisis are not going to be in any mood to sit and dine with strangers in close quarters.

Long term might be another issue. However, by then the damage could be done.


----------



## Maverickstation

The Downeaster service is now on full suspension until at least April 30th.









Amtrak Downeaster extends suspension service amid coronavirus outbreak


The Amtrak Downeaster has extended its suspension service due to the coronavirus outbreak, the Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority said Wednesday.




www.wmtw.com


----------



## pennyk

Bob Dylan said:


> 2 Sleepers???
> Must be lots of Snowbirds getting out of the Frying Pan into the Fire!


There are usually 3 sleepers on the Meteor.


----------



## Trogdor

dlagrua said:


> What surprises me most is that fares do not seem to have gone down as a result of the downturn in ridership. What happened to the supply and demand theory?



There is (virtually) no demand. Changing the fares doesn’t matter when there is no demand.

Leaving the fares as-is is fine from an economics standpoint because the (very, very) little demand that does exist is inelastic (i.e. absolutely essential travel) and therefore the people traveling would be the same folks traveling if the fares were the same as they are, 10% higher, or 75% lower. Anyone else shouldn’t be traveling anyway.


----------



## Bob Dylan

pennyk said:


> There are usually 3 sleepers on the Meteor.


Thanks, forgot about that! 
Could it be that the SM is the Longest LD consist ( except for the Auto Train) right now??


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Bob Dylan said:


> Thanks, forgot about that!
> Could it be that the SM is the Longest LD consist ( except for the Auto Train) right now??


The EB is still running with 8 cars, which is the minimum it can operate with while retaining all services and operating to both Portland and Seattle. I haven't seen the LSL lately, but it might still be 8 or more cars as well. It could theoretically operate with 7 since the Boston section doesn't have a baggage car, but I wouldn't be suprised if it has 2 NY coaches and/or sleepers.


----------



## Bob Dylan

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> The EB is still running with 8 cars, which is the minimum it can operate with while retaining all services and operating to both Portland and Seattle. I haven't seen the LSL lately, but it might still be 8 or more cars as well. It could theoretically operate with 7 since the Boston section doesn't have a baggage car, but I wouldn't be suprised if it has 2 NY coaches and/or sleepers.


Thanks, I knew all LD Trains had Shorter consists, but figured with the Annual Snowbird Migration out of Florida,and NYers trying to flee the Apple,that they would be crowded during Easter week, especially with so many flights Cancelled!


----------



## Thirdrail7

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I haven't seen the LSL lately, but it might still be 8 or more cars as well. It could theoretically operate with 7 since the Boston section doesn't have a baggage car, but I wouldn't be suprised if it has 2 NY coaches and/or sleepers.



The LSL is 7 cars ALB-CHI, 3 cars BOS-ALB and 4 cars NYP-ALB. The first time I saw the itty-witty-bitty LS, I thought it was an equipment move.


----------



## pennyk

I had reserved an America by Rail tour in May and made my own Amtrak reserverations to Glenwood Springs and back home from Denver. Today, I received a call from ABR that they were canceling the tour. I was not surprised that they were canceling, but was surprised that they waited this long to cancel. I will get a full refund to my credit card for the ABR tour (within 30-60 days). I called Amtrak to cancel my 2 reservations and I will be receiving a full refund to my credit card (probably in way less than 30-60 days). I had planned to stay at a hotel in Glenwood Springs, CO the night prior to the beginning of the tour so I phoned the phone to cancel. Apparently, the hotel is closed until mid-May (a few days after my reservation). I assume that they would have alerted me to this fact or just assumed that I would have confirmed prior to going to the hotel. I had been thinking about this tour (Yellowstone, Mt. Rushmore) for years and I am saddened that either I will have to wait to do the trip in the future or possibly not do it at all. Even if ABR had not canceled the tour, I had already decided that it would not be smart and safe to travel that distance in May (and I was prepared to lose the fare I had paid ABR).


----------



## Bob Dylan

Even though times are tough, this is a great reminder of not procastinating when it comes to Travel and other "Bucket List" things!

The old saying about "When I retire I'm gonna_____________, or Someday I'm gonna"
are good reminders to not put off till tomorrow what you can do today!

Better times will come, and when they do, don't hesitate, Book that Dream trip ASAP!!


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Bob Dylan said:


> Even though times are tough, this is a great reminder of not procastinating when it comes to Travel and other "Bucket List" things!
> 
> The old saying about "When I retire I'm gonna_____________, or Someday I'm gonna"
> are good reminders to not put off till tomorrow what you can do today!
> 
> Better times will come, and when they do, don't hesitate, Book that Dream trip ASAP!!



Very true! I was going through old photos yesterday (from like 5 years ago) and I almost cried seeing the photos I took of the Parlor Cars. I’m so glad I rode the Starlight as much as I did. Even if it was a simple continental breakfast I ate every meal I could in that car knowing how special it was


----------



## v v

v v said:


> Our friend Milton has just travelled from Los Angeles to Syracuse, NY by Southwest Chief and the Lake Shore Limited. He spends the three winter months in LA, then back to his farm to farm for the rest of the year. He needs the winter sunshine boost as he is no longer quite as young as he was, and he doesn't fly.
> 
> He emailed us to let us know he managed the journey safely, but the standout comment in a short email was the trip was surreal, and it's not the type of word Milton would use so we are just waiting to hear in a few days what happened.
> 
> Have to add he has used this route for about 60 years at least once each way each year so a very experienced Amtrak rider. If it is of any interest to those reading this thread what a right up to date virus influenced 2 1/2 day LD Amtrak journey is like I'll ask if it is ok to publish a little of the story here, just let me know.



OK, just heard today and can now briefly describe Milton's Southwest Chief and Lake Shore Limited trip from LA to Syracuse on the 2 April 2020.

First this arrived from Amtrak about 4 days before departure:

_RESERVATION ......

MILTON .........

We are contacting you about your trip on Train 48 the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago, Illinois on 4/2/2020.

At this time, various states are undertaking specific safety precautions at stations for customers arriving from out of state. Check with each state for specific guidance. The CDC (LINK: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/travel-in-the-us.html) has urged residents of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to refrain from non-essential travel for 14 days. Amtrak service continues to operate on the Northeast Corridor to provide vital transportation for employees of essential services.

The most up to date arrival and departure times are available on Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps or by texting or calling 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245)._


He like us would usually take public transport from the valley to LAX Union Station, this time he booked a private car. Had a call at 3:45 am asking for a Mr ........., the private car co had got their am and pm's mixed up, the car was booked for 3:50 pm.

Made good time to Union Station in lighter but still not light traffic. Arrived at first class lounge, rang the bell and let in, he was the only passenger there up to the time for boarding. Hot and cold drinks available and small snacks.

On boarding the SWC there were only 2 or 3 other sleeper passengers, this was the consist - engine, engine, sleeping car, dining car, lounge car, coach car, coach car, baggage car. Note there was no crew car; they were using unsold space in the sleeping car.

All sleeper passengers kept their door closed at all times, most/all took meals in their room although a full service dining car was operating. Not sure if Milton ate in the dining car or not, would have been alone if he did.

Maximum number of sleeper passengers during the trip was 6.

At Albuquerque for a 90 minute stop Milton and one other sleeper passenger got off to stretch legs, no one got off from coach. No one asked them to stay on board and no one from the station approached them.

In Chicago the Amtrak lounge was open with the rest of the Great Hall closed off. No food or drink available in the lounge, only outside.

LSL left on time with a greater passenger load, journey to Syracuse was uneventful. Was met inside the station and driven home.


So for those curious about what is currently happening on an Amtrak LD train ride it looks like not a lot. Sounds very calm, no interaction and working efficiently, well on this route anyway.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> Does anyone have information that the CZ cancellations will extend for the length of our current travel restrictions? If it is strictly because of an employee shortage, service should only be canceled for two weeks, which is what is currently indicated by the cancellation period for new bookings.


It appears that the CZ did return to it's normal schedule after two weeks.

Also, on a separate topic Amtrak is now storing equipment on the eastern tracks of the north concourse at Chicago Union Station.


----------



## west point

One of the first items for Flynn to attack is the abysmal handling of the Crescent south of CLT by NS.


----------



## jebr

*MODERATOR NOTE:* Amtrak Food Service discussion has been separated out and can be discussed here: COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Pandemic: Amtrak Food Service Discussion

Please use this for all other Amtrak-related discussion regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.


----------



## Manny T

Doesn't LD Amtrak have the perfect post-Covid product? (I use "post"-Covid loosely, since things will never be the same; I mean Covid Phase 2 -- whenever the country is "re-opened" in some still unclear sense, and some people are traveling around again...)

Imagine getting on an airplane "post"-Covid -- crowded terminals, security lines, boarding lines, cramped seating in coach, strapped in for periods of time, tiny communal bathrooms, narrow aisles, etc.

Now imagine traveling LD on Amtrak in a roomette or bedroom -- isolated, contained, private WC, OK to wipe down on your own, sink for handwashing, clean sheets, no or minimal interaction with other PAX, meals delivered. Even in coach there is more room (but I'd still be wary of coach).

Even the Amshacks scattered around the country are looking good -- few passengers, minimal or no staff, can wait and board without a crowd. I boarded at Delray Beach FL once and was the only passenger on the platform.

If Amtrak was smart, they'd be gearing up for a post-Covid full house rather than paring back service, imho. And concentrating on virus mitigation on board.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

If there was an Amtrak station right in my town... I’d be hopping on a train in a sleeper and taking rides that’s for sure. I think being in a sleeper right now on Amtrak is a pretty safe bet. 

Since I would have to fly to a major city and take public transit to get to Amtrak.... no that doesn’t seem like such a good idea so here I sit.


----------



## Michigan Mom

Just got an email from Amtrak about our upcoming LSL trip at the end of May. They are encouraging people to wear masks while in station and on the train (though not requiring). 
Still hoping for developments that would make the trip possible. Son is grad student in public health and he isn't optimistic. It might also be a good time to save money since the upcoming year is full of uncertainty. By using the AGR card exclusively for purchases, by the time train travel is feasible again I will be able to book with points for at least a one-way for three people and 2 roomettes. So there's that to look forward to!


----------



## pennyk

crescent-zephyr said:


> If there was an Amtrak station right in my town... I’d be hopping on a train in a sleeper and taking rides that’s for sure. I think being in a sleeper right now on Amtrak is a pretty safe bet.



With little or no luggage, I could walk to 2 Amtrak stations (ORL and WPK), but, as much as I love trains and miss traveling, I am not hopping on a train in a sleeper. Although I am healthy, I am "older."


----------



## Tirnipgreen

crescent-zephyr said:


> Technically both are correct, but buses is preferred. Up until the 1960’s Webster listed “busses” as the plural.


My point wasn't self distancing...it was why I can't sit where I want on The Crescent.


----------



## gwolfdog

pennyk said:


> With little or no luggage, I could walk to 2 Amtrak stations (ORL and WPK), but, as much as I love trains and miss traveling, I am not hopping on a train in a sleeper. Although I am healthy, I am "older."


Your post describes why we're still in Florida, trying to escape. Auto Train cancelled after derailment and we let bookings lapse twice. 65 & 72 both with with highly compromised systems. CDC tells us to stay put. Lease was up in March. Heard airplanes are empty. Three hour flight, auto carrier. Bottom line, "We gotta get out of this place. No place like home (if it isn't snowing). Anyone know if Amtrak has made any allowances for the Risky, or its "leaving on a jet plane" at the end of the month. Masks, Gloves etc. Looking out my widow at a slew of Boats, Traffic, no masks etc. and getting ready for Cuomo Body Count. How surreal is this?


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Drive.


----------



## gwolfdog

Green Maned Lion said:


> Drive.



WC Van. I'm not mobile. I can't drive wife has her issues also. Probably 3 nights motels, stops, etc. Weakening our systems and all that exposure, kinda kills that. Sad cause in our 40's did in one day. Came down in WC Room. Was OK, but Waiting Area exposure was Horrendous. Thanks


----------



## crescent-zephyr

gwolfdog said:


> WC Van. I'm not mobile. I can't drive wife has her issues also. Probably 3 nights motels, stops, etc. Weakening our systems and all that exposure, kinda kills that. Sad cause in our 40's did in one day. Came down in WC Room. Was OK, but Waiting Area exposure was Horrendous. Thanks



I’d take a chance on the train vs. airports and planes personally. I understand the concern both ways


----------



## gwolfdog

crescent-zephyr said:


> I’d take a chance on the train vs. airports and planes personally. I understand the concern both ways


Between a Rock and a Hard Place. Kinda like a lot of people, out there. Just commit and don't look back. What's a right decision, with the Bug Chasing You and the @#%^&* thinking you're expendable.


----------



## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> Your post describes why we're still in Florida, trying to escape. Auto Train cancelled after derailment and we let bookings lapse twice. 65 & 72 both with with highly compromised systems. CDC tells us to stay put. Lease was up in March. Heard airplanes are empty. Three hour flight, auto carrier. Bottom line, "We gotta get out of this place. No place like home (if it isn't snowing). Anyone know if Amtrak has made any allowances for the Risky, or its "leaving on a jet plane" at the end of the month. Masks, Gloves etc. Looking out my widow at a slew of Boats, Traffic, no masks etc. and getting ready for Cuomo Body Count. How surreal is this?


Hang in there gwolfdog. Are you already paid through April in Florida?
A lot can happen in 12 days, as things are changing rapidly.
I hope things look better for your options in another week -
ET


----------



## NS VIA Fan

No Maple Leaf, Adirondack or Cascades until at least May 21......and I'd be surprised if trains weren't cancelled well beyond that.

President Trump had hinted the other day they might be able to reopen the US/Canada border soon....but Prime Minister Trudeau said today a “mutual agreement” was reached with the US to keep the border closed an additional 30 days beyond the original April 21st date.


----------



## Michigan Mom

If flights are empty what's your thought on flying home? Minimal exposure, you'd take precautions, not expensive right now.


----------



## SarahZ

Some airlines are doing things like leaving the middle seat open when three across or the aisle seat open in rows of two. They’re also doing more extensive cleaning and marking social distance spacing at the gate.


----------



## IndyLions

I am not a fan of flying relative to rail (enjoyment, comfort, close proximity/breathing the same air, etc) - but I think in this case with the light loads and extra precautions being taken in the travel industry it would be relatively safe. For similar reasons I think the Auto Train would be relatively safe as well - but it is a vastly longer travel time. Usually, that extra time would be spent enjoying the ride, but in this case it might be spent worrying.

I think I’d stay put - but if that is not an option I’d fly.


----------



## Asher

If you have to go, I think right now you can get on, get there and get off of a plane with very little inner action with other people.


----------



## gwolfdog

anumberone said:


> If you have to go, I think right now you can get on, get there and get off of a plane with very little inner action with other people.


I was thinking plane 5-6 hours total contact with people Amtrak 17-20 hours. Less travel time but you can't close your compartment door on the plane. I was hoping someone here had used the Auto train recently or flew out of Orlando. Lease was up end of March. No place like home if the bug don't get you on the way.


----------



## Amtrak57

I found this video on youtube of train 281 with 3 Amfleet 2 LD coaches and one business/cafe car. I can see why the trains are shorter but why are they putting LD coaches on corridor trains?
 (Credit to East Side Railfanning).


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

Amtrak57 said:


> I found this video on youtube of train 281 with 3 Amfleet 2 LD coaches and one business/cafe car. I can see why the trains are shorter but why are they putting LD coaches on corridor trains?
> (Credit to East Side Railfanning).



Maybe because the seats are further apart? There's also many more available right now than normal due to shorter LD consists.


----------



## jiml

Amtrak57 said:


> I found this video on youtube of train 281 with 3 Amfleet 2 LD coaches and one business/cafe car. I can see why the trains are shorter but why are they putting LD coaches on corridor trains?
> (Credit to East Side Railfanning).



The Maple Leaf, which is currently truncated, usually has a couple of AM2 coaches. Presuming it's also shorter at this time, perhaps some of its equipment has been redeployed in the corridor?


----------



## PVD

If it doesn't continue into Canada, ML & 281 are pretty much the same (other than times)


----------



## v v

gwolfdog said:


> Between a Rock and a Hard Place. Kinda like a lot of people, out there. Just commit and don't look back. What's a right decision, with the Bug Chasing You and the @#%^&* thinking you're expendable.



@gwolfdog 

Did you read my report on this thread #582, it may help?


----------



## niemi24s

gwolfdog said:


> Between a Rock and a Hard Place. Kinda like a lot of people, out there.


Or kinda like this poor critter seen yesterday from my front porch. . .


. . .after a hard landing on the lake.


----------



## keelhauled

The last Hiawatha has been replaced by a bus until 5/25. The Empire Builder is now the only train between Chicago and Milwaukee.


----------



## Tirnipgreen

There must be some disconnect between what the approved protocols are with respect to social distancing and AMTRAK management. I am on the Crescent right now and they have half the seats in the car blocked. Not EVERY OTHER ROW....but the ENTIRE REAR HALF of the car....! I would think seating should be every other row and staggered left and right. My Two Cents.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Tirnipgreen said:


> There must be some disconnect between what the approved protocols are with respect to social distancing and AMTRAK management. I am on the Crescent right now and they have half the seats in the car blocked. Not EVERY OTHER ROW....but the ENTIRE REAR HALF of the car....! I would think seating should be every other row and staggered left and right. My Two Cents.



“Only use half the seats” the sensible way... and the Amtrak crew way! You can’t make it up.


----------



## Tirnipgreen

There is at least one car blocked off completely. There are people in almost every row (3 feet apart) that is being made available to us. Sad the way the crews are brainwashed.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Tirnipgreen said:


> There is at least one car blocked off completely. There are people in almost every row (3 feet apart) that is being made available to us. Sad the way the crews are brainwashed.



As usual... report this to Amtrak... tweet this to Amtrak’s twitter / social media. Tweet it to local authorities.

At best the crew is stupid and doesn’t have the mental capacity for the job. 

At worst, the crew is knowingly endangering the lives of passengers for their own convenience.


----------



## John Bobinyec

According to Amtrak's reservation system. the following trains commence on May 1:

Piedmonts 73,74,77 and 78
Downeasters 680 and 685

jb


----------



## Rasputin

Maybe this is old news but I just received this message from Amtrak about expanded lounge access for Select members:

"We hope this note finds you and your loved ones well during this difficult time. Amtrak® continues to operate a modified schedule as an essential service for those who must travel and our clubs and lounges remain open. Because you are a valued Select member of Amtrak Guest Rewards®, we invite you to use our lounges if you do need to travel with us. With that in mind, we are extending lounge privileges to Select members through June 30, 2020. When you arrive, advise the lounge attendant of your Select status and Amtrak reservation for entry. 

If you do need to travel with us, know that we are taking extra steps to keep our stations and trains clean, keep you safe, and remain an essential part of transportation in America. We are requiring our customer-facing employees to wear facial coverings and we strongly recommend that customers follow CDC guidelines and wear facial coverings in public, including in our stations and on trains. "


----------



## Thirdrail7

John Bobinyec said:


> According to Amtrak's reservation system. the following trains commence on May 1:
> 
> Piedmonts 73,74,77 and 78
> Downeasters 680 and 685
> 
> jb



From everything I’ve read, those trains are cancelled thru 5/31.

Additionally, the Carolinian, the Keystones and the the Pennsylvanian are cancelled until through 5/17.

Keep an eye on the website since some station hours are changing dramatically.


----------



## Tirnipgreen

As I detrained this morning in Greensboro, it became obvious to me what was going on in the car I was riding. I regret not getting a picture, but will make an attempt at describing what I saw. When I detrained, about 1/3 of the rear of the car was "blocked off" as seen in thread #612...except for one row on the right-hand side, in the middle of the said area. That seat was being occupied by a conductor and being used as a "work area" as a bag of destination tags was present on a seat-back tray and the seat was covered by some kind of sheet. That is when it hit me...the conductor had "quarantined" herself away from passengers, by at least two empty rows in all directions. A total disregard for those paying to be on the train. Pitiful.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

No surprise there. Amtrak crews literally endangering the lives of passengers and breaking laws.

Please report this everywhere you can. National news, your local health organization etc.


----------



## John Bobinyec

Thirdrail7 said:


> From everything I’ve read, those trains are cancelled thru 5/31.
> 
> Additionally, the Carolinian, the Keystones and the the Pennsylvanian are cancelled until through 5/17.
> 
> Keep an eye on the website since some station hours are changing dramatically.



Dang it. I apologize. Some sort of processing error presented them on a report that I get. I should have checked this out further. They're not back on May 1.

jb


----------



## DonNewcomb

anumberone said:


> If you have to go, I think right now you can get on, get there and get off of a plane with very little inner action with other people.


A friend flew through ATL on the 14th and posted this pix on facebook.


----------



## SarahZ

Obviously, I'm not going to travel right now, but it's so tempting to take advantage of the emptiness.

Immediately after 9/11, I got a cross-country flight for next to nothing, and the plane was _maybe_ 30% full.


----------



## jis

Immediately after 9/11 I had to make an emergency trip to India. The JFK - LHR segment was on Virgin Atlantic. There were 6 of us in a 747, all upgraded to upper class upstairs. But then the British Airways flight from London to Kolkata was pretty full. 9/11 was not a global phenomenon like this one. It was more of an American thing.


----------



## Asher

DonNewcomb said:


> A friend flew through ATL on the 14th and posted this pix on facebook.
> View attachment 17397
> 
> 
> That's what I'm talking about. Wish I had someplace to go with something to do. Alas, were all in the same boat.


----------



## gwolfdog

Unfortunately the boat looks like the Titanic and the airship the Hindenburg at this time. "There must someway out of here said the Joker to the King" BD


----------



## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> Unfortunately the boat looks like the Titanic and the airship the Hindenburg at this time. "There must someway out of here said the Joker to the King" BD


Keep steady gwolfdog! &
FYI - I'm pretty sure Dylan's line is "said the Joker to the Thief"


----------



## Bob Dylan

ET2020 said:


> Keep steady gwolfdog! &
> FYI - I'm pretty sure Dylan's line is "said the Joker to the Thief"


I agree!


----------



## gwolfdog

I was drinking Lysol on 'Desolation Row' when I wrote it. You guys should work for CNN.


----------



## RichieRich

gwolfdog said:


> I was drinking Lysol on 'Desolation Row' when I wrote it. You guys should work for CNN.


What's it called when you drop a shot-glass of fish-tank cleaner in it?


----------



## jis

RichieRich said:


> What's it called when you drop a shot-glass of fish-tank cleaner in it?


Finally we know what Covfefe is, after all this time


----------



## Railroad Bill

Back to trains please.


----------



## Thirdrail7

The Hiawatha train service has been replaced with reserved buses.

Buses temporarily replacing Amtrak Hiawatha trains between Milwaukee and Chicago




> In response to lower ridership demand because of the COVID-19 pandemic, Amtrak, in partnership with the Wisconsin and Illinois state transportation departments, is temporarily substituting daily Amtrak Thruway Buses for Amtrak Hiawatha Service trains between Milwaukee and Chicago.
> 
> As of Friday, Bus 3332 has been operating in place of Hiawatha Service Trains 330 and 332. The bus leaves the Downtown Milwaukee Intermodal Station at 7:55 a.m. and arrives at Chicago Union Station at 9:54 a.m. Also as of Friday, Bus 3339 is operating in place of Hiawatha Service Train 339, originating in Chicago at 5 p.m. and arriving at the Milwaukee Intermodal Station at 6:59 p.m.


----------



## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> I was drinking Lysol on 'Desolation Row' when I wrote it. You guys should work for CNN.


I'd rather make an honest living shoveling manure, than to work for CNN


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Tirnipgreen said:


> There is at least one car blocked off completely. There are people in almost every row (3 feet apart) that is being made available to us. Sad the way the crews are brainwashed.


Some dogs simply refuse to learn new tricks.



Thirdrail7 said:


> The Hiawatha train service has been replaced with reserved buses. Buses temporarily replacing Amtrak Hiawatha trains between Milwaukee and Chicago


Although it makes sense right now I really hope this doesn't become a trend long term.



ET2020 said:


> I'd rather make an honest living shoveling manure, than to work for CNN


I'd rather hear who you do trust than who you don't.


----------



## JoeBas

Railroad Bill said:


> Back to trains please.





ET2020 said:


> I'd rather make an honest living shoveling manure, than to work for CNN



Reading is fundamental.


----------



## Thirdrail7

I would have normally started another thread for this tidbit of information but I think it is related.

Over the next few weeks, track work along the CSX route will hinder the operation of trains going past PTB. As usual, the Palmetto will not operate past WAS on MON-THU. The Carolinian would normally operate RGH-CLT during this trackwork period. However, it is canceled in its entirety.

This brings us to the Silver Star. 

Normally, we'd see the northbound train operate on a later schedule, with a designation of train 1092. The southbound is typically unaffected. However, starting next week(and I'm looking at @acelafan and @John Bobinyec for confirmation) the Silver Star is canceled in its entirety from MIA-NYP on SUN-WED and from NYP-MIA on MON-THU. I don't recall this ever happening. 

I suppose with the numbers being so low, they just decided to not run it.


----------



## John Bobinyec

Thirdrail7,

That looks about right. I got the following from someone who keeps close tabs on these things with the railroads themselves:

"91 and 92 will be canceled for track work in North Carolina as follows:

May 3 through May 20: 92 canceled Sun, Mon, Tue and Wed

May 4 through May 21: 91 canceled Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur"

I checked it out for the first full week in May and it checks out.

jb


----------



## ET2020

Railroad Bill said:


> Back to trains please.



Yes, Railroad Bill, sorry for the tangential comments.
Any recent experience with the effects of "social distancing" on the Auto Train??
I'd like to know how the Auto Train has been impacted.
ET



Devil's Advocate said:


> I'd rather hear who you do trust than who you don't.



Devil's Advocate;
I align my trust with our U.S. Currency:
"In God We (I) Trust" - All others pay CASH!
ET


----------



## Thirdrail7

John Bobinyec said:


> Thirdrail7,
> 
> That looks about right. I got the following from someone who keeps close tabs on these things with the railroads themselves:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked it out for the first full week in May and it checks out.
> 
> jb



I apologize for the poor phrasing. I know the trains are cancelled and I know why. What I am wondering is if this is the first time the Star (or any other LD train) has been cancelled in its entirety, multiple days in a row for track work. I don't recall this happening. Usually, they push back the Star's departure time 4 hours and 91 isn't typically impacted.


----------



## John Bobinyec

Thirdrail7 said:


> I apologize for the poor phrasing. I know the trains are cancelled and I know why. What I am wondering is if this is the first time the Star (or any other LD train) has been cancelled in its entirety, multiple days in a row for track work. I don't recall this happening. Usually, they push back the Star's departure time 4 hours and 91 isn't typically impacted.


Right. I only have east coast records going back to 2006 and elsewhere after that. I don't recall it happening either.
jb


----------



## tonys96

ET2020 said:


> I'd rather make an honest living shoveling manure, than to work for CNN


How timely, I need some help cleaning up a dog run this weekend. Are you available?


----------



## Bob Dylan

tonys96 said:


> How timely, I need some help cleaning up a dog run this weekend. Are you available?


That would be your job @ Fixed Noise, that's what they do!


----------



## acelafan

John Bobinyec said:


> Right. I only have east coast records going back to 2006 and elsewhere after that. I don't recall it happening either.
> jb


And my archive records are JB's records.


----------



## MARC Rider

Tirnipgreen said:


> As I detrained this morning in Greensboro, it became obvious to me what was going on in the car I was riding. I regret not getting a picture, but will make an attempt at describing what I saw. When I detrained, about 1/3 of the rear of the car was "blocked off" as seen in thread #612...except for one row on the right-hand side, in the middle of the said area. That seat was being occupied by a conductor and being used as a "work area" as a bag of destination tags was present on a seat-back tray and the seat was covered by some kind of sheet. That is when it hit me...the conductor had "quarantined" herself away from passengers, by at least two empty rows in all directions. A total disregard for those paying to be on the train. Pitiful.



Sorry, I have to take the side of the conductor. Look at it this way: Suppose there's a "hot zone" (like an Amtrak car) where the evil virus is lurking, and there's a 1% chance of catching it. Say the hot zone holds 99 passengers and a conductor (I know, that's a humongous Amtrak car, but let's just stipulate it for this example.) Now, if 99 passengers board, each one only has a 1% chance of catching the virus on that trip. On the other hand, the conductor is riding in the car, interacting with every passenger, not only on that trip, but on all his or her trips of the day, every day. After 100 trips, the conductor would have a 100% chance of catching the virus unless he or she did something to reduce his or her risk. This is not even counting for the fact that more people get off and on at intermediate stations, which might increase the exposure some to a passenger making one trip, but really increases the risks to the conductor, who is making trips every day, possibly multiple trips per day. 

The conductor is at a much greater risk of infection than any passenger, so I totally 100% support what this conductor did. By the way, when all this started, the WHO said that 3 foot (1 meter) social distancing was fine. This is what I used when I rode home from Boston on March 10, and I suspect I may have been exposed to some risk when the New York passengers boarded the train. I haven't gotten sick yet, so either the New Yorkers who boarded weren't infected or the 1 meter social distancing was sufficient to reduce my risk. I think that the car attendants and conductors had more to worry about than I did as a passenger, even if I wasn't able to maintain 6 ft. social distancing. 

Of course, if I were a conductor or other onboard staff, I'd be wearing a mask, or maybe Amtrak should be tricking them out with level 4 biohazard suits. And all passengers should be wearing masks. 

And if it really bothers you about that car where the conductor provided himself an extra safety zone that he needed, there are other cars on the train without conductors, no? Or you could stay home, like CDC is telling us to do unless we have a REALLY good reason.


----------



## IndyLions

MARC Rider said:


> Sorry, I have to take the side of the conductor. Look at it this way: Suppose there's a "hot zone" (like an Amtrak car) where the evil virus is lurking, and there's a 1% chance of catching it. Say the hot zone holds 99 passengers and a conductor (I know, that's a humongous Amtrak car, but let's just stipulate it for this example.) Now, if 99 passengers board, each one only has a 1% chance of catching the virus on that trip. On the other hand, the conductor is riding in the car, interacting with every passenger, not only on that trip, but on all his or her trips of the day, every day. After 100 trips, the conductor would have a 100% chance of catching the virus unless he or she did something to reduce his or her risk. This is not even counting for the fact that more people get off and on at intermediate stations, which might increase the exposure some to a passenger making one trip, but really increases the risks to the conductor, who is making trips every day, possibly multiple trips per day.
> 
> The conductor is at a much greater risk of infection than any passenger, so I totally 100% support what this conductor did. By the way, when all this started, the WHO said that 3 foot (1 meter) social distancing was fine. This is what I used when I rode home from Boston on March 10, and I suspect I may have been exposed to some risk when the New York passengers boarded the train. I haven't gotten sick yet, so either the New Yorkers who boarded weren't infected or the 1 meter social distancing was sufficient to reduce my risk. I think that the car attendants and conductors had more to worry about than I did as a passenger, even if I wasn't able to maintain 6 ft. social distancing.
> 
> Of course, if I were a conductor or other onboard staff, I'd be wearing a mask, or maybe Amtrak should be tricking them out with level 4 biohazard suits. And all passengers should be wearing masks.
> 
> And if it really bothers you about that car where the conductor provided himself an extra safety zone that he needed, there are other cars on the train without conductors, no? Or you could stay home, like CDC is telling us to do unless we have a REALLY good reason.



I know on some Amtrak equipment there are dedicated offices (yes they are tiny) that I’ve never actually seen a conductor use. This Covid 19 situation might actually cause them to get used...


----------



## crescent-zephyr

MARC Rider said:


> Sorry, I have to take the side of the conductor. Look at it this way: Suppose there's a "hot zone" (like an Amtrak car) where the evil virus is lurking, and there's a 1% chance of catching it. Say the hot zone holds 99 passengers and a conductor (I know, that's a humongous Amtrak car, but let's just stipulate it for this example.) Now, if 99 passengers board, each one only has a 1% chance of catching the virus on that trip. On the other hand, the conductor is riding in the car, interacting with every passenger, not only on that trip, but on all his or her trips of the day, every day. After 100 trips, the conductor would have a 100% chance of catching the virus unless he or she did something to reduce his or her risk. This is not even counting for the fact that more people get off and on at intermediate stations, which might increase the exposure some to a passenger making one trip, but really increases the risks to the conductor, who is making trips every day, possibly multiple trips per day.
> 
> The conductor is at a much greater risk of infection than any passenger, so I totally 100% support what this conductor did. By the way, when all this started, the WHO said that 3 foot (1 meter) social distancing was fine. This is what I used when I rode home from Boston on March 10, and I suspect I may have been exposed to some risk when the New York passengers boarded the train. I haven't gotten sick yet, so either the New Yorkers who boarded weren't infected or the 1 meter social distancing was sufficient to reduce my risk. I think that the car attendants and conductors had more to worry about than I did as a passenger, even if I wasn't able to maintain 6 ft. social distancing.
> 
> Of course, if I were a conductor or other onboard staff, I'd be wearing a mask, or maybe Amtrak should be tricking them out with level 4 biohazard suits. And all passengers should be wearing masks.
> 
> And if it really bothers you about that car where the conductor provided himself an extra safety zone that he needed, there are other cars on the train without conductors, no? Or you could stay home, like CDC is telling us to do unless we have a REALLY good reason.



Your siding with the conductor or coach attendant for putting passengers lives in danger? Unbelievable.


----------



## Rasputin

Kind of amazing to me that you could find a conductor on an Amtrak train. On many long distance trains that I have been on in recent years they seem to make themselves pretty invisible for long periods of time or so it seems to me. Didn't used to be that way years ago.


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

MARC Rider said:


> Sorry, I have to take the side of the conductor. Look at it this way: Suppose there's a "hot zone" (like an Amtrak car) where the evil virus is lurking, and there's a 1% chance of catching it. Say the hot zone holds 99 passengers and a conductor (I know, that's a humongous Amtrak car, but let's just stipulate it for this example.) Now, if 99 passengers board, each one only has a 1% chance of catching the virus on that trip. On the other hand, the conductor is riding in the car, interacting with every passenger, not only on that trip, but on all his or her trips of the day, every day. After 100 trips, the conductor would have a 100% chance of catching the virus unless he or she did something to reduce his or her risk. This is not even counting for the fact that more people get off and on at intermediate stations, which might increase the exposure some to a passenger making one trip, but really increases the risks to the conductor, who is making trips every day, possibly multiple trips per day.
> 
> The conductor is at a much greater risk of infection than any passenger, so I totally 100% support what this conductor did. By the way, when all this started, the WHO said that 3 foot (1 meter) social distancing was fine. This is what I used when I rode home from Boston on March 10, and I suspect I may have been exposed to some risk when the New York passengers boarded the train. I haven't gotten sick yet, so either the New Yorkers who boarded weren't infected or the 1 meter social distancing was sufficient to reduce my risk. I think that the car attendants and conductors had more to worry about than I did as a passenger, even if I wasn't able to maintain 6 ft. social distancing.
> 
> Of course, if I were a conductor or other onboard staff, I'd be wearing a mask, or maybe Amtrak should be tricking them out with level 4 biohazard suits. And all passengers should be wearing masks.
> 
> And if it really bothers you about that car where the conductor provided himself an extra safety zone that he needed, there are other cars on the train without conductors, no? Or you could stay home, like CDC is telling us to do unless we have a REALLY good reason.


1. I understand blocking off a few rows for the employee, but blocking off half the car is excessive especially if it results in passengers too close together. Most LD trains are also running with only one of two coaches, so changing cars is not necessarily possible.

2. While your general point is valid, a conductor who travels on 100 trains, with each train carrying an infection probability of 1%, would not have a 100% chance of getting the virus. The actual chance would be about 63.34%.

3. The six foot recommendation is only a guideline. Just because you are within six feet of someone with the virus does not mean you will get it; in fact the average infected person in a scenario without specific precautions will pass it on to only 2-4 others. Spread is also possible beyond six feet, although the probability decreases drastically with increased distance.


----------



## Metra Electric Rider

I want to know how busy the train was? If there were only a dozen passengers that seems reasonable. They could have done what Metra did and run full trains to allow social distancing.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Metra Electric Rider said:


> I want to know how busy the train was? If there were only a dozen passengers that seems reasonable. They could have done what Metra did and run full trains to allow social distancing.



The original post said 1 whole car was blocked off and there were people in “almost every row that was made available to us” 

Amtrak’s website says “ To help maintain CDC recommendations for physical distancing onboard our trains, we are temporarily reducing coach class and business class sales to 50% capacity.”

I think you would have to be mentally challenged and not fit for the job of train service or knowingly going against the point of reducing coach capacity. I honestly don’t see how anyone could defend this action but these boards always surprise me in how some members will defend Amtrak employees.


----------



## MARC Rider

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> 1. I understand blocking off a few rows for the employee, but blocking off half the car is excessive especially if it results in passengers too close together. Most LD trains are also running with only one of two coaches, so changing cars is not necessarily possible.



The original poster didn't say that half the car was blocked off, only a third of the car, which would make sense if the car was an Amfleet II, which has 15 rows and 5 rows were blocked. If it were an Amfleet I, with 19 rows, only about a quarter of the car would have been blocked off. This is assuming that the conductor was blocking off the seats on the other side of the aisle, too. This wasn't clear from they original post.

I suspect that if each passenger has a seat pair to themselves and that everybody is wearing masks, the risk would be pretty low. If passenger pairs are living in the same household and haven't gotten sick yet, they can probably safely sit next to one another. If it's more crowded than that, then, yes, Amtrak probably needs to attach another coach to the train. But the criticism should be directed to Amtrak's management, not the poor front-line worker who's putting his life on the line to make sure the train can operate.


----------



## MARC Rider

crescent-zephyr said:


> Your siding with the conductor or coach attendant for putting passengers lives in danger? Unbelievable.


At l;east I'm not siding with someone who wants to put the conductor or coach attendant in danger. What's with the hostility towards the front-line workers who make the entire enterprise happen?


----------



## MARC Rider

crescent-zephyr said:


> The original post said 1 whole car was blocked off and there were people in “almost every row that was made available to us”
> 
> Amtrak’s website says “ To help maintain CDC recommendations for physical distancing onboard our trains, we are temporarily reducing coach class and business class sales to 50% capacity.”



OK, if they're limiting sales to 50% capacity, that means that it's pretty much that every passenger gets a seat pair to themselves. 

The original post says that there were "people in almost every row that was made available to us." This sort of implies that there _*were*_ empty rows, and that the original poster _*could*_ sit alone in a 2-seat pair, just as Amtrak's website promises. Maybe the the available row wasn't the original poster's favorite row, but given the extraordinary times, at least there was a seat available.


----------



## riderails

Chalk up another probable victim to COVID-19: Writing in the Detroit News on 4/30/'20, Daniel Howes asserts that barely begun restoration of Mich. Central Depot is "doomed" due to the effect of the pandemic on Ford Motor Co.'s finances despite a ranking source's insistence this is not the case.


----------



## west point

Has work stopped ? Or is work being done to stabilize any thing that would cause more damage if not completed ?


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## SarahZ

riderails said:


> Chalk up another probable victim to COVID-19: Writing in the Detroit News on 4/30/'20, Daniel Howes asserts that barely begun restoration of Mich. Central Depot is "doomed" due to the effect of the pandemic on Ford Motor Co.'s finances despite a ranking source's insistence this is not the case.


I just read the article. His assertions have very little to support them and are simply there to wind you up for the next bit, which reveals the counterarguments.

Here is the link to the article, in case others want to read it. Nowhere in this article does it say that construction will not resume once commercial and residential construction workers return to work next week.









Howes: Talk turns negative on Ford, naturally, as COVID-19 headwinds intensify


'Hell no,' says Executive Chairman Bill Ford, a reaction that's totally, unequivocally unsurprising to anyone who knows him -- or pays attention



www.detroitnews.com


----------



## crescent-zephyr

According to Amtrak - no more priority boarding at Union Station DC. Seems like that would cause the boarding group to be longer? But what do i know.


----------



## wwchi

And I'm curious - if you PAID FOR priority boarding by buying a Business Class ticket you no longer get that? I can understand the FREE priority boarding (seniors/kids, etc.) but if you are paying for that and you are still paying the same price for the ticket, I don't get that. Anyone know? Anyone know if they are going to be doing this at other stations?



crescent-zephyr said:


> According to Amtrak - no more priority boarding at Union Station DC. Seems like that would cause the boarding group to be longer? But what do i know.


----------



## Michigan Mom

My heart is heavy as I type this, will have to cancel our LSL trip at the end of the month. Stay at home orders have been extended for Michigan and I can't see flouting the orders to travel from one virus hot spot to another. I look forward to taking Amtrak trips again when it's safe for everyone to do so.


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## gwolfdog

Probably a good move. We spent an extra month in Florida, for being old and compromised. Came down on Auto Train. Found a rare non cancelled. non stop flight to Syracuse and luckily it went out a quarter filled, less than 3 hour flight.. Quite a few older people on flight. FLL Airport was a virtual ghost town. TSA just standing around, bored. Parked in front no traffic, Surreal. Thought about Auto Train, but no WC Roomette with Priority available for over a week. Hoping the bug, didn't follow. gloves, masks, sanitizer etc.


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## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> Probably a good move. We spent an extra month in Florida, for being old and compromised. Came down on Auto Train. Found a rare non cancelled. non stop flight to Syracuse and luckily it went out a quarter filled, less than 3 hour flight.. Quite a few older people on flight. FLL Airport was a virtual ghost town. TSA just standing around, bored. Parked in front no traffic, Surreal. Thought about Auto Train, but no WC Roomette with Priority available for over a week. Hoping the bug, didn't follow. gloves, masks, sanitizer etc.


Glad to hear you made it home, gwolfdog. Did your car make it as well?


----------



## gwolfdog

It's going on an Auto Carrier next week. First time we've tried, let you know. It's only Stimulus Money. Left Florida it was near 90, got to Syracuse 50's and raining. Better than Divorce Court. Like to do Florida 6 months next year. Far from perfect, but that sun everyday makes a difference, even with the Plaque.


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## Qapla

I was thinking of doing Florida for 12 months this year - Oh! Wait! ... I always do Florida for 12 months


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## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> It's going on an Auto Carrier next week. First time we've tried, let you know. It's only Stimulus Money. Left Florida it was near 90, got to Syracuse 50's and raining. Better than Divorce Court. Like to do Florida 6 months next year. Far from perfect, but that sun everyday makes a difference, even with the Plaque.


Well, if things loosen up soon enough, we will be doing Florida for 2 months next Jan & Feb. 
We should meet somewhere for coffee/snacks.
Good luck getting your vehicle returned and settling back in at home.

I worked for Gould Electronics/Martin Marietta in 1993, and they closed down our plant here in MD to move operations to Syracuse.
I turned down the move; I don't like SNOW anymore. When inquiring with the Syracuse Chamber of Commerce, it was confirmed that 
Syracuse has only 2 seasons, Winter and August!
ET


----------



## me_little_me

MARC Rider said:


> And if it really bothers you about that car where the conductor provided himself an extra safety zone that he needed, there are other cars on the train without conductors, no? Or you could stay home, like CDC is telling us to do unless we have a REALLY good reason.


In case you haven't been on a long distance train, it is not like the NE corridor and other SD routes where you can sit where you want. You sit where you are told and the employees in my opinion, force passengers to crowd together so if you are on the Crescent going from NOL to ATL or in between you might all be put in one or a few cars with the remainder running empty or reserved for passengers going a longer distance. Similarly, at the rest of the stations, your car assignment varies depending on where you are going. I believe it is as much for employee convenience (not having to maintain multiple cars) as it is for any other reason because I often see nearly full cars and completely empty ones when there will be few, if any, new riders as the car attendant is still putting people in the fuller cars. For example, I've seen people going north from Richmond being put in fuller cars even though a few stops later, at Washington, no more passengers would be boarding (before they changed that).


----------



## me_little_me

gwolfdog said:


> Far from perfect, but that sun everyday makes a difference, even with the Plaque.


You mean the sun helps your teeth? Your typo: "plaque" instead of "plague".


----------



## gwolfdog

ET2020 said:


> Well, if things loosen up soon enough, we will be doing Florida for 2 months next Jan & Feb.
> We should meet somewhere for coffee/snacks.
> Good luck getting your vehicle returned and settling back in at home.
> 
> I worked for Gould Electronics/Martin Marietta in 1993, and they closed down our plant here in MD to move operations to Syracuse.
> I turned down the move; I don't like SNOW anymore. When inquiring with the Syracuse Chamber of Commerce, it was confirmed that
> Syracuse has only 2 seasons, Winter and August!
> ET


Where would you go in Florida, where are you now? Also lowest number on sunny days here in Syracuse. Filled in my pool 10 years ago and never regretted it. Cheap housing though. My 200 thousand palace would be a mill plus down there.


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## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> Where would you go in Florida, where are you now? Also lowest number on sunny days here in Syracuse. Filled in my pool 10 years ago and never regretted it. Cheap housing though. My 200 thousand palace would be a mill plus down there.


We hang around Orlando - we own Timeshare with Disney, and have friends and family through central Fl and on both coasts.
We live in MD - and 3 of the 4 seasons here are tolerable, although as i get older I have a much narrower band of comfort. But I have lost my love for SNOW;
and the wife suffers from abdominal issues in the cold weather. So Snow-Birding is the plan, and I retire at the end of this year, so we will see how it goes in 2021. We should be in Orlando most of Jan & Feb, and taking the Auto Train, since 8 weeks of renting a car would wipe out the savings of flying vs rail travel.


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## gwolfdog

No problems with Auto Train going down. Look for Rentals early, they go fast. Stay as long as you can. I have a Brother-in-Law, rented, now owns, at The Villages and loves his Golf Cart and lifestyle. I have to be at the ocean. Stay as long as you can. Good Luck!


----------



## jis

I live in the Space Coast in West Melbourne about 30 miles from Kennedy Space Center and 5 miles from the barrier island beaches. I used to travel frequently to NJ/NY, but that is now slowly trickling down to maybe once in a blue moon as I am trying to cut down on travel in general. Trips to the NE are short ones and usually by plane out fo Orlando to Newark and back. Very occasionally it is by the Silvers. Maybe it will be more often now that the long term parking situation has stabilized in Kissimmee., the station closest to my home - 55 miles away. But I am also in triple barrel high risk group, so traveling and meeting is probably a year or two away. People in my situation are still under Stay at Home recommendation (both Phase I and Phase II) and is unlikely to change anytime soon.


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## gwolfdog

I would have preferred to wait it out in Florida, though seriously stressed. An Anxious Condo Owner, Homesick Wife and the General Insanity of When it will be "Safe' got us out of Florida. They are opening the beaches, tattoo parlors, etc, from Political Fears and "what's a few old sick people. And the economy. "the greatest ever" 
Not comparing, health and age, my wife and I are Very High Risk, also. The Airport was a Ghost Town, plane a quarter filled, took precautions and hope it was worth it. Stopped watching TV, and the fear mongering, and suffering. Staying home and safe in Syracuse waiting for "come out of your homes Siren". Hopefully we'll learn some lessons from this, but I seriously doubt it


----------



## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> No problems with Auto Train going down. Look for Rentals early, they go fast. Stay as long as you can. I have a Brother-in-Law, rented, now owns, at The Villages and loves his Golf Cart and lifestyle. I have to be at the ocean. Stay as long as you can. Good Luck!


I think we'll be content with the timeshare model for the near future. We don't need an entire house, so rentals are usually more space / $$ than we need.
Don't think I'll ever be swayed to relocate to Florida - Summers there are brutal, and our grandkids are all still near us here in MD. And, since things do change, we're not locked into long-term with the timeshare, as there is a healthy resale market, and rental market as well. We haven't taken the Auto Train since 1997, with 2 teens and we were in Coach. This next time, it'll be just the 2 of us, and we got a sleepliner bedroom. We're hoping that will make for a better experience.


----------



## Palmland

We are contemplating a move to be closer to our sons in the northeast as it is now a 2 day drive from SC. We have no interest in going north of central Virginia because of the high cost and crowded everything. It will be hard to leave our idyllic house in a rural area but we are getting to the age where something with minimal house maintenance, nearby good medical facilities, and easy drive/ NEC regional to our children/grandkids Is essential. We need to do it now while we are still active and reasonably healthy.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Palmland said:


> We are contemplating a move to be closer to our sons in the northeast as it is now a 2 day drive from SC. We have no interest in going north of central Virginia because of the high cost and crowded everything. It will be hard to leave our idyllic house in a rural area but we are getting to the age where something with minimal house maintenance, nearby good medical facilities, and easy drive/ NEC regional to our children/grandkids Is essential. We need to do it now while we are still active and reasonably healthy.


Have you considered lower Delaware, though that's not "close" to Amtrak. MD may have some lower cost options too.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Virginia is really nice if youre not too close to Washington,Charlotsville or Richmond, which tend to be pricey!


----------



## mgl1978

The Capital Limited is down to P42, Dorm, Diner, Coach-Baggage, Coach


----------



## Palmland

AmtrakBlue said:


> Have you considered lower Delaware, though that's not "close" to Amtrak. MD may have some lower cost options too.



Good suggestion as that is a nice area. I grew up in Wilmington and summer vacations at Rehobeth. We are considering the eastern shore, especially MD and Va but the Richmond area has a lot of appeal having gone to college near there and being transferred there for a couple years during working days. Having good rail access is a very big plus for that area too.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Palmland said:


> Good suggestion as that is a nice area. I grew up in Wilmington and summer vacations at Rehobeth. We are considering the eastern shore, especially MD and Va but the Richmond area has a lot of appeal having gone to college near there and being transferred there for a couple years during working days. Having good rail access is a very big plus for that area too.


I've been here since 67 (Wilm/Newark). My family vacationed in Rehoboth. Lower DE has changed, a lot. But hasn't everywhere... Lots of development. I haven't been down to Rehoboth since Dec, yes Dec, 2013. I keep saying I should go down. I have yet to take the Cape May/Lewis ferry which is on my "to do" list.


----------



## Ferroequinologist

me_little_me said:


> In case you haven't been on a long distance train, it is not like the NE corridor and other SD routes where you can sit where you want. You sit where you are told and the employees in my opinion, force passengers to crowd together so if you are on the Crescent going from NOL to ATL or in between you might all be put in one or a few cars with the remainder running empty or reserved for passengers going a longer distance. Similarly, at the rest of the stations, your car assignment varies depending on where you are going. I believe it is as much for employee convenience (not having to maintain multiple cars) as it is for any other reason because I often see nearly full cars and completely empty ones when there will be few, if any, new riders as the car attendant is still putting people in the fuller cars. For example, I've seen people going north from Richmond being put in fuller cars even though a few stops later, at Washington, no more passengers would be boarding (before they changed that).



Packing people into a couple of coaches and leaving other cars empty is a common practice. It's especially common on some commuter lines, especially on Philadelphia's SEPTA. Will new Amtrak management insist that ALL equipment be used in light of Covid-19?


----------



## Ferroequinologist

I want to bring up the issue of hygiene, mainly toilet facilities. Bathrooms are now a MAJOR risk on Amtrak. And it points to the mistake of not including toilet facilities in Superliner roomettes and the decision not to include toilets in new viewliner roomettes - and even to remove them from older Viewliners roomettes. Now the only safe way to travel is in a Bedroom which is ridiculously priced. So what can be done to limit the spread of disease given the inadequate toilet facilities on Amtrak long haul?


----------



## jloewen

ET2020 said:


> We hang around Orlando - we own Timeshare with Disney, and have friends and family through central Fl and on both coasts.
> We live in MD - and 3 of the 4 seasons here are tolerable, although as i get older I have a much narrower band of comfort. But I have lost my love for SNOW;
> and the wife suffers from abdominal issues in the cold weather. So Snow-Birding is the plan, and I retire at the end of this year, so we will see how it goes in 2021. We should be in Orlando most of Jan & Feb, and taking the Auto Train, since 8 weeks of renting a car would wipe out the savings of flying vs rail travel.


Ten years ago, after a speaking engagement in Jacksonville (FL), my wife and I took 92 back to DC where we live. At breakfast we were seated with an older couple (we were then c.68). He looked to be about 75, she maybe 80. They were not only taking Amtrak all the way to Boston, their stuff was being moved too, because they were relocating to MA. Why? I asked. Most people your age move the other direction.
"We have grandchildren in MA," he replied, "but that's not the main reason, because we have grandchildren in FL too. The main reason is, I want to get back into downhill skiing."
Later in the conversation, it devolved that she wasn't 80, she was 87, and he wasn't 75, he was 94!
So for some years he was my role model: getting "back into downhill skiing" at 94.


----------



## gwolfdog

me_little_me said:


> You mean the sun helps your teeth? Your typo: "plaque" instead of "plague".


What do you on your off days? Go down to the airport and criticize bad landing. I don't give a **** about spelling errors or wise guys.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

mgl1978 said:


> The Capital Limited is down to P42, Dorm, Diner, Coach-Baggage, Coach



That's an even shorter consist than I've been seeing on the Texas Eagle the past few weeks. I've been counting 5 cars on the southbound TE that goes past my office window just before I leave work: 1 Observation Lounge + 4 others (maybe 1 sleeper + 3 coaches? The TE doesn't stop in my town, so I can't confirm exactly what the 4 other cars are).


----------



## brianpmcdonnell17

MccfamschoolMom said:


> That's an even shorter consist than I've been seeing on the Texas Eagle the past few weeks. I've been counting 5 cars on the southbound TE that goes past my office window just before I leave work: 1 Observation Lounge + 4 others (maybe 1 sleeper + 3 coaches? The TE doesn't stop in my town, so I can't confirm exactly what the 4 other cars are).


I saw both TEs in Chicago yesterday; they had one sleeper, one diner, one observation car, one coach, and one coach/baggage. The CL is the only Superliner LD train I have seen that is running with just one food service car.


----------



## Skyline

Bob Dylan said:


> Virginia is really nice if youre not too close to Washington,Charlotsville or Richmond, which tend to be pricey!


Agree. Look west of the Blue Ridge in VA. I live in Luray. Property here is more realistically priced than closer to DC, but we're only 90 minutes from the Beltway.


----------



## me_little_me

Well, one hope for us in western mountains of NC is that the virus will slow down the annual April to November infestation from the heat of Florida. Only kidding, but we do wish they would just stay there and send up the money they normally spend here. 

I wonder if we should have state police at the border enforcing "none of 'them' allowed" rules?


----------



## Barb Stout

Ferroequinologist said:


> I want to bring up the issue of hygiene, mainly toilet facilities. Bathrooms are now a MAJOR risk on Amtrak. And it points to the mistake of not including toilet facilities in Superliner roomettes and the decision not to include toilets in new viewliner roomettes - and even to remove them from older Viewliners roomettes. Now the only safe way to travel is in a Bedroom which is ridiculously priced. So what can be done to limit the spread of disease given the inadequate toilet facilities on Amtrak long haul?


Perhaps installing UV light that would be on when no one was in the bathroom and would automatically switch off when someone opened the door to go in. Won't help with the smell though which is what bothers me along with the occasional troll who feels that the floor is the best place for used and unused toilet paper.


----------



## gwolfdog

I think selling Tickets to a bigger Focus than keeping Bathrooms Clean. I'd save for a Bedroom, if you're that worried.


----------



## Skyline

me_little_me said:


> Well, one hope for us in western mountains of NC is that the virus will slow down the annual April to November infestation from the heat of Florida. Only kidding, but we do wish they would just stay there and send up the money they normally spend here.
> 
> I wonder if we should have state police at the border enforcing "none of 'them' allowed" rules?


You mean like Delaware?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Skyline said:


> You mean like Delaware?


Hey, I resemble that. 
I’m noticing a lot of NY, NJ & MD tags in DE - and I don’t mean on I95


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Barb Stout said:


> Perhaps installing UV light that would be on when no one was in the bathroom and would automatically switch off when someone opened the door to go in. Won't help with the smell though which is what bothers me along with the occasional troll who feels that the floor is the best place for used and unused toilet paper.


A UV bulb with an emission rating strong enough to work quickly and reach all nooks and crannies would warp and discolor the interior and be dangerous to anyone who was accidentally exposed. I don't trust Amtrak to keep such a system in proper working order, but even if the control circuit was shown to be 99.99% reliable there would still be an average of nearly an hour of unintended exposure per bathroom per year. This would not be good for any passengers but could be especially harmful to young children. The proper solution is for Amtrak to ensure the staff clean the coach bathrooms on a regular basis. Out of hundreds of coach flights I can count major issues with bathroom cleanliness on one hand, whereas on Amtrak I can count the number of times the coach bathroom was _not_ disgusting on one hand.


----------



## Night Ranger

me_little_me said:


> Well, one hope for us in western mountains of NC is that the virus will slow down the annual April to November infestation from the heat of Florida. Only kidding, but we do wish they would just stay there and send up the money they normally spend here.
> 
> I wonder if we should have state police at the border enforcing "none of 'them' allowed" rules?


We have already sent in our contribution to Western NC AKA "God's Country." We enjoy visiting the area from Dillsboro, Murphy, Cullowhee, and Sylva, all the way over to Asheville and have made those trips many times.
Our plan was to visit Bryson City in June and ride at least one of the GSMRR excursions through the Nantahala Gorge. Made and paid for the reservations last November and now our plans are iffy due to COVID-19. (I am reminded of the old saying "I make plans and God laughs.") GSMRR has suspended operations till at least May 8 and has promised to work with those of us holding reservations. My past experiences with them have all been positive so I'm sure this will get sorted in due time. Due to our age and infirmities we are willing to postpone the trip till later. It's our 52nd anniversary trip even if we don't get to take it until the fall.


----------



## Chey

DonNewcomb said:


> A friend flew through ATL on the 14th and posted this pix on facebook.
> View attachment 17397



Geez it looks like a scene from the movie Contagion


----------



## Chey

ET2020 said:


> We hang around Orlando - we own Timeshare with Disney, and have friends and family through central Fl and on both coasts.
> We live in MD - and 3 of the 4 seasons here are tolerable, although as i get older I have a much narrower band of comfort. But I have lost my love for SNOW;
> and the wife suffers from abdominal issues in the cold weather. So Snow-Birding is the plan, and I retire at the end of this year, so we will see how it goes in 2021. We should be in Orlando most of Jan & Feb, and taking the Auto Train, since 8 weeks of renting a car would wipe out the savings of flying vs rail travel.



I went to high school in Sarasota and loved that town... I don't think I could handle a summer there now. But some of my most beautiful pictures of beaches and town are from there. Unfortunately it doesn't look like that anymore. My heart still skips a beat when I remember taking my kids to the beaches along Longbeach into Bradenton, to Santa Maria Island, to DeSoto National Memorial Park.

It was always my dream to be a snowbird...


----------



## Cho Cho Charlie

Ferroequinologist said:


> I want to bring up the issue of hygiene, mainly toilet facilities. Bathrooms are now a MAJOR risk on Amtrak. And it points to the mistake of not including toilet facilities in Superliner roomettes and the decision not to include toilets in new viewliner roomettes - and even to remove them from older Viewliners roomettes. Now the only safe way to travel is in a Bedroom which is ridiculously priced. So what can be done to limit the spread of disease given the inadequate toilet facilities on Amtrak long haul?



An excellent point and very well said (wrote?). 

Even with all the negatives people here can come up with, about toilets in the roomettes, the fact that I am in 100% control over how clean (and virus free) it remains over the course of my trip is, IMHO, priceless.


----------



## Thirdrail7

John Bobinyec said:


> According to Amtrak's reservation system. the following trains commence on May 1:
> Piedmonts 73,74,77 and 78
> 
> jb



These Piedmont cancellations will remain through 5/31.



Thirdrail7 said:


> From everything I’ve read, those trains are cancelled thru 5/31.
> 
> Additionally, the Carolinian, the Keystones and the Pennsylvanian are cancelled until through 5/17.
> 
> Keep an eye on the website since some station hours are changing dramatically.



The Keystones and Pennsylvanian cancellations have been extended through 5/31. The Carolinian will resume operation between CLT-RGH beginning 5/18. It will remain canceled between RGH-NYP through 5/31.


----------



## gwolfdog

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> An excellent point and very well said (wrote?).
> 
> Even with all the negatives people here can come up with, about toilets in the roomettes, the fact that I am in 100% control over how clean (and virus free) it remains over the course of my trip is, IMHO, priceless.


 "It does no good to stand on the seat cause an Amtrak Crab can jump Ten Feet"


----------



## Barb Stout

gwolfdog said:


> I think selling Tickets to a bigger Focus than keeping Bathrooms Clean. I'd save for a Bedroom, if you're that worried.


I don't know... I know several people who took Amtrak once, but said never again, on account of dirty bathrooms. I really like taking Amtrak, but I myself have thought twice about selecting Amtrak as the way to travel because of the bathrooms, particularly the smell. I don't worry so much about catching something because I have been engaging in proper handwashing technique for several decades, but sometimes the smell is just very hard on me my delicate princess-like senses.


----------



## caravanman

"Some brave travelers continue to use the railroad, deemed an essential service, crossing states with different rules and approaches to containing the spread of the virus. Rather than adhering to individual states’ rules, Amtrak has a blanket policy for its passengers, creating a kind of ministate of its own. Here are a few of the travelers on a route from Chicago to Los Angeles."


People are still using trains...


----------



## Qapla

Barb Stout said:


> I know several people who took Amtrak once, but said never again, on account of dirty bathrooms. I really like taking Amtrak, but I myself have thought twice about selecting Amtrak as the way to travel because of the bathrooms, particularly the smell.



Guess it is all a matter of perspective ... In my line of work I often have to use port-a-lets - I have yet to use an Amtrak bathroom on the train or in a station that comes anywhere near the smell and condition of what I encounter on the job ... I have found the facilities on the train to be acceptable - so far.


----------



## Ryan

Palmland said:


> We have no interest in going north of central Virginia because of the high cost and crowded everything.



There is tons of cheap uncrowded land north of central Virginia. What part of the world are you trying to get close to?


----------



## Ferroequinologist

Barb Stout said:


> I don't know... I know several people who took Amtrak once, but said never again, on account of dirty bathrooms. I really like taking Amtrak, but I myself have thought twice about selecting Amtrak as the way to travel because of the bathrooms, particularly the smell. I don't worry so much about catching something because I have been engaging in proper handwashing technique for several decades, but sometimes the smell is just very hard on me my delicate princess-like senses.



It's not that easy to wash your hands in such tiny bathrooms with very small sinks. And the ease with which germs can spread in Amtrak's bathrooms which get very little en route cleaning is a cause for concern. Someone commented that in his job he has to use portable toilets. That's a job hazard he is willing to accept but most people wouldn't consider that acceptable, especially when they're paying $1,000 or more to travel one way in a roomette across the US.


----------



## Palmland

Ryan said:


> There is tons of cheap uncrowded land north of central Virginia. What part of the world are you trying to get close to?


Having lived in the Richmond area before and its easy access to beaches, mountains and DC attractions we prefer that area. And it certainly has better weather than Morristown, NJ and near Allentown, PA where our sons are. Our son in NJ can’t wait to move south when our granddaughter is older due to the very high taxes there.

But, as was suggested, the Shenandoah Valley would certainly be our second choice. It’s a gorgeous part of eastern U.S.


----------



## MARC Rider

Qapla said:


> Guess it is all a matter of perspective ... In my line of work I often have to use port-a-lets - I have yet to use an Amtrak bathroom on the train or in a station that comes anywhere near the smell and condition of what I encounter on the job ... I have found the facilities on the train to be acceptable - so far.


I have to agree, with qualifications. I've never had a problem with disgusting bathrooms in the Superliner sleepers. (Those riding in roomettes have shared bathrooms.) Sometimes when I'm in the SSL I use the coach bathrooms, and I've never really been disgusted with them either. I once rode coach on the Silver Star Baltimore to Tampa, and the attendant must have been a fanatic, I've never seen such a clean restroom, the entire distance. On the other hand, I once rode the Meteor and had to use the coach facilities, and someone was goofing off on the job. I rarely have a problem with the more regional trains, but my absolute worst Amtrak restroom experience was on the last two hours of a Vermonter run. We were traveling from Essex Jct. to Baltimore, and the train was packed full 100% from Brattleboro to New York, and it actually started filling up even before White River Jct. When we left New York, you could smell the facilities from the middle of the coach car. I think that somebody needed to empty the holding tank and swab out the place, say, at New Haven.

But to be fair, I've has some bad experiences on airplanes, too. All it takes is one slob to mess things up, and the crew really can't do anything about it until they land.


----------



## MARC Rider

Palmland said:


> Having lived in the Richmond area before and its easy access to beaches, mountains and DC attractions we prefer that area. And it certainly has better weather than Morristown, NJ and near Allentown, PA where our sons are. Our son in NJ can’t wait to move south when our granddaughter is older due to the very high taxes there.
> 
> But, as was suggested, the Shenandoah Valley would certainly be our second choice. It’s a gorgeous part of eastern U.S.


Have you thought of York/Adams County, Pennsylvania, or Carroll County, Maryland? Good connections to DC, and Allentown (via Harrisburg), decent connections to the beaches. You can even ride Amtrak to New York or Boston via either Baltimore or Harrisburg. If you want more rural than those, there's Perry County, Pennsylvania, slightly northwest of Harrisburg with good access to the city. If you have more money to spend on real estate, there's a lot of nice rural style living in Baltimore County (of all places) less than a 15 minute drive from the Beltway.


----------



## Skyline

AmtrakBlue said:


> Hey, I resemble that.
> I’m noticing a lot of NY, NJ & MD tags in DE - and I don’t mean on I95



I know. For eight years I had a second home in Milton. Gradually, I realized I didn't really like the beach that much and moved back to the Blue Ridge Mountains full time. Part of it involved the annual seasonal traffic and parking woes. You know, "everyone wants to live at the beach ... until they live at the beach."

But I think state troopers pulling over vehicles (near borders) with out of state plates and expecting them (by edict from Dover) to self-quarantine for 14 days is big government out of control. As is a statement issued earlier this year by Rehoboth Beach's mayor telling those with second homes in his city to stay away. I bet both state and local governments still want their tax dollars from part time residents and even casual visitors!


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Skyline said:


> I know. For eight years I had a second home in Milton. Gradually, I realized I didn't really like the beach that much and moved back to the Blue Ridge Mountains full time. Part of it involved the annual seasonal traffic and parking woes. You know, "everyone wants to live at the beach ... until they live at the beach."
> 
> But I think state troopers pulling over vehicles (near borders) with out of state plates and expecting them (by edict from Dover) to self-quarantine for 14 days is big government out of control. As is a statement issued earlier this year by Rehoboth Beach's mayor telling those with second homes in his city to stay away. I bet both state and local governments still want their tax dollars from part time residents and even casual visitors!


I'm ok with the 14 day quarantine for out-of-staters. Why should we let others potentially pass the virus onto our residents and then our health system has to deal with those new cases. I think we should have gone further and say that any Delawarean who leaves the state and then comes back should also self-quarantine.


----------



## Palmland

MARC Rider said:


> Have you thought of York/Adams County, Pennsylvania, or Carroll County, Maryland? Good connections to DC, and Allentown (via Harrisburg), decent connections to the beaches. You can even ride Amtrak to New York or Boston via either Baltimore or Harrisburg. If you want more rural than those, there's Perry County, Pennsylvania, slightly northwest of Harrisburg with good access to the city. If you have more money to spend on real estate, there's a lot of nice rural style living in Baltimore County (of all places) less than a 15 minute drive from the Beltway.


While those are nice areas, having lived many years in Baltimore and, earlier, in Chester County PA we have no interest in returning. Guess we just enjoy a somewhat more laid back vibe (and better weather) in the south. Although Richmond is admittedly becoming more like the northeast, partly due to Amtrak, our current thought is the small town of Ashland where I went to college. It’s close enough to the big city for cultural, entertainment, and medical purposes but not overwhelmed by the city, yet.


----------



## Chey

Palmland said:


> Having lived in the Richmond area before and its easy access to beaches, mountains and DC attractions we prefer that area. And it certainly has better weather than Morristown, NJ and near Allentown, PA where our sons are. Our son in NJ can’t wait to move south when our granddaughter is older due to the very high taxes there.
> 
> But, as was suggested, the Shenandoah Valley would certainly be our second choice. It’s a gorgeous part of eastern U.S.



I agree - one of my brothers lives in Elkton and it's beautiful; he used to go to Charlottesville to shop but now Harrisonburg has everything he needs. If Ryan's talking about northwest Virginia, then yes, he's right. The other direction, northeast Virginia, is a mess. IMHO.


----------



## BoulderCO

Yes, the bathrooms are certainly a problem. I like riding trains, so I hold my nose, squint my eyes and put up with them. But I have to admit that the bathrooms prevent me from recommending Amtrak to many of my friends and relatives. Apparently the resulting lack of business hasn't motivated Amtrak to address the issue ;>)


----------



## Palmland

While Amtrak coach bathrooms can sometimes be nasty, I have a hard time being grossed out about it. Certainly beats a porta potty at a campground or tailgate event. But for the fastidious, Amtrak should be more consistent about cleaning.


----------



## Mark P

Face coverings will be mandatory going forward starting May 11. I don't know, this might finally get me to cancel my Southwest Chief trip from LAX to CHI in early July. Can't imagine it will be fun to wear a mask for 50 hours.









Amtrak to start requiring face coverings on trains, in stations


Train travelers, get your masks ready.




www.wsls.com


----------



## Mark P

Here is the official language:

*Face Mask Policy*: To protect customers and employees, all customers in stations and on trains and thruway buses are required to wear a facial covering, beginning May 11. Facial coverings can be removed when customers are eating in designated areas, in their private rooms, or seated alone or with a travel companion in their own pair of seats. Small children who are not able to maintain a facial covering are exempt from this requirement. Customers must supply their own facial covering. Customers can go to CDC.gov for detailed instructions on how to make their own mask. Service will be denied to customers not wearing facial coverings.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Mark P said:


> Face coverings will be mandatory going forward starting May 11. I don't know, this might finally get me to cancel my Southwest Chief trip from LAX to CHI in early July. Can't imagine it will be fun to wear a mask for 50 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak to start requiring face coverings on trains, in stations
> 
> 
> Train travelers, get your masks ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsls.com



Are they not a hazard to sleep in?


----------



## SarahZ

crescent-zephyr said:


> Are they not a hazard to sleep in?


*"Facial coverings can be removed when customers are eating in designated areas, in their private rooms, or seated alone or with a travel companion in their own pair of seats."*


----------



## SarahZ

Mark P said:


> Here is the official language:
> 
> *Face Mask Policy*: To protect customers and employees, all customers in stations and on trains and thruway buses are required to wear a facial covering, beginning May 11. Facial coverings can be removed when customers are eating in designated areas, in their private rooms, or seated alone or with a travel companion in their own pair of seats. Small children who are not able to maintain a facial covering are exempt from this requirement. Customers must supply their own facial covering. Customers can go to CDC.gov for detailed instructions on how to make their own mask. Service will be denied to customers not wearing facial coverings.


You don't have to wear it for 50 hours. Per the policy you just posted, you can take it off while eating and while in your room/at your seat.


----------



## Mark P

SarahZ said:


> You don't have to wear it for 50 hours. Per the policy you just posted, you can take it off while eating and while in your room/at your seat.



Understood, and I have a bedroom reserved so I will be fine there. But I spend the majority of my days in the lounge, and I'm assuming the mask will have to stay on there. I was already hesitant to do my trip with the dining car being shut down, this might be the final push to postpone.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

SarahZ said:


> *"Facial coverings can be removed when customers are eating in designated areas, in their private rooms, or seated alone or with a travel companion in their own pair of seats."*



I guess it helps if you actually read the policy. Sorry!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Mark P said:


> Understood, and I have a bedroom reserved so I will be fine there. But I spend the majority of my days in the lounge, and I'm assuming the mask will have to stay on there. I was already hesitant to do my trip with the dining car being shut down, this might be the final push to postpone.


If you can you probably should Reschedule your trip for Fall.

,And then be Flexible, because of the predicted Second Wave that no-one really knows when it will happen???


----------



## v v

Mark P said:


> Understood, and I have a bedroom reserved so I will be fine there. But I spend the majority of my days in the lounge, and I'm assuming the mask will have to stay on there. I was already hesitant to do my trip with the dining car being shut down, this might be the final push to postpone.



Hello Mark

I think it's time we should all start thinking of others too. Your mask isn't to protect you, it's to protect everybody else you come in close proximity to. In reverse if you were to pass close to a Covid-19 carrier who wasn't wearing a mask and you suffered because of their non compliance you may not be a very happy person. 

I know people who have to wear masks all day at work, also had a short spell of having to use one regularly for work too. Providing the mask you use is comfortable (it's important to get the right one for your face) it's something you just do when needs must, not a big deal.

This stuff isn't forever, if we want what at the moment is the privilege of travel we all have to do our bit is my opinion. Also my opinion is what a shame to miss such a great train ride over such a minor issue.


----------



## gwolfdog

Why anyone would feel that wearing a mask in a Public Area is not appropriate Human Behavior in this new time and environment is beyond my thinking level. But I do accept Reality, at times.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

gwolfdog said:


> Why anyone would feel that wearing a mask in a Public Area is not appropriate Human Behavior in this new time and environment is beyond my thinking level. But I do accept Reality, at times.


I think it helps if one can find a mask that fits properly and breathe through easily. I crocheted face masks for the entire staff at work, but soon discovered that the design of mine made it difficult to breathe, even though it was made from a lighter-weight yarn than those made for my co-workers. I subsequently crocheted myself a large bandanna-style triangular scarf. Since it's open at the bottom (while still covering the lower half of my face), I can keep it on for the duration of a supermarket trip without feeling a need to push it down from my nose whenever I'm in an empty aisle to ease breathing (which kind of defeats the purpose of being masked inside the supermarket). And it's attractive enough that I can wear it around my neck during the day, so I never have to fumble in my purse for my mask.


----------



## gwolfdog

Good points. The Mask should fit well and it's nice to not feel self conscious in them. Now you can find them in your favorite sports team, scary clown face or Kardashian.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

I use neck gaiters for my mask.


----------



## tricia

AmtrakBlue said:


> I use neck gaiters for my mask.



That's gonna be dang hot in the summertime.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

gwolfdog said:


> Good points. The Mask should fit well and it's nice to not feel self conscious in them. Now you can find them in your favorite sports team, scary clown face or Kardashian.


Of the pre-made ones, I rather like the ones made like a cowl with an ear-looped extension on top; it looks like those could be worn about the neck when not in use over the face, too. I'm not so worried about using a non-filtered non-medical grade DIY mask alternative, since for the general public, the main purpose seems to be to prevent one's own sneezes & coughs from spreading germs to others, rather than keeping others' germs away from one's own face.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

tricia said:


> That's gonna be dang hot in the summertime.


These are made for summer wear and offer 50+ sun protection.


----------



## ET2020

gwolfdog said:


> Good points. The Mask should fit well and it's nice to not feel self conscious in them. Now you can find them in your favorite sports team, scary clown face or Kardashian.


So only 2 choices: Sports Team, or Scary Clown-Faced-Kardashian ??


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

ET2020 said:


> So only 2 choices: Sports Team, or Scary Clown-Faced-Kardashian ??


They do come in other prints, too (including a cowl/gaiter version of a cowboy bandanna).


----------



## gwolfdog

Both UVA and Covid-19 protection works for me.


----------



## Skyline

AmtrakBlue said:


> I'm ok with the 14 day quarantine for out-of-staters. Why should we let others potentially pass the virus onto our residents and then our health system has to deal with those new cases. I think we should have gone further and say that any Delawarean who leaves the state and then comes back should also self-quarantine.




We are the UNITED States of America. Next some states will insist upon passports to enter.


----------



## Mark P

Can someone share a link or recommend a place where I can acquire lighter, more breathable masks? The one I have now is just a typical N95 mask that I only wear for short stints to the grocery store, and I cannot imagine wearing it for longer than 20-30 mins at a time.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Skyline said:


> We are the UNITED States of America. Next some states will insist upon passports to enter.


Well, if these United States shared resources, then it wouldn’t be an issue. Or if all states has shut down at the same time, etc.
The federal govt should have insured a domestic travel ban, in addition to an international one, to contain the spread.


----------



## Asher

With all the states opening up to some degree, it's going to be interesting over the next two to three weeks seeing how the rate of infection moves. Downward we all hope, I am more than dubious though. I see many people wearing mask in public, I also am seeing more and more not wearing. The Pres. and his bunch are setting a bad example and what's up with quarantine for those in contact with someone who test positive. I just noticed the VP aide also is infected.


----------



## gwolfdog

AmtrakBlue said:


> Well, if these United States shared resources, then it wouldn’t be an issue. Or if all states has shut down at the same time, etc.
> The federal govt should have insured a domestic travel ban, in addition to an international one, to contain the spread.


You are right about the International Travel Ban. Cuomo just spoke on how millions from Europe flew into NYC Airports weeks after the China Ban. They traveled to other parts of the country and spread it more. These United States don't share resources, they Bid against each other for resources and states with fewer sick residents get the same $ as sicker states. We blew a chance to cut losses when we had it. The Market goes up and I worry if my kids will have their government jobs, after the Billions are recklessly thrown around. Just Insanity


----------



## Mystic River Dragon

I have no problem with wearing a mask on the trains or in stations to protect others. I do find it hard to breathe in them for a long time but can deal with that if we get “breaks” (at our seat or in a roomette, for example).

However, as someone who tends to trip over her own feet in the best of circumstances, I am having trouble because I cannot see the ground when wearing one. I have tripped several times on my morning walks, and I am concerned about not being able to see the train steps, especially when detraining. Usually, I can see where I’m going, and the conductor helps me down.

But between wearing a mask and not being able to see down clearly, and certainly not asking the conductor to put his health in jeopardy by touching my hand, I am wondering how I will manage.

Anyone else have similar concerns or ideas on how to handle this?


----------



## AmtrakBlue

MccfamschoolMom said:


> They do come in other prints, too (including a cowl/gaiter version of a cowboy bandanna).


Not sure you got the jest of his post.  I had to read it twice before I did.


----------



## Asher

Mark P said:


> Can someone share a link or recommend a place where I can acquire lighter, more breathable masks? The one I have now is just a typical N95 mask that I only wear for short stints to the grocery store, and I cannot imagine wearing it for longer than 20-30 mins at a time.


Old Navy/ Gap just started selling mask made out of leftover material. They'd look comfortable, they are the pleated type, 5 for $13 plus shipping.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

AmtrakBlue said:


> Not sure you got the jest of his post.  I had to read it twice before I did.


I got it, but added clarification for those who truly were looking for other styles.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

To be clear wearing masks is a pain in the a- er, tuchus. I hate the things. I have a surgical mask (my wife got a few from a client who had them) and I have trouble breathing, I have trouble seeing, and I can’t breathe adequately when I go out to walk for exercise when wearing one- so I don’t wear one, I just cover my face and hold my breath and further distance when I come across other people.

But when I am in close confines with other people (like inside a store- or on a train), it is simply tough nuggies. We need to protect others. However, please listen up to the following:

DO NOT WEAR VENTED N95 RESPIRATORS OR NON-DISPOSABLE N95 FACE MASKS.

The non disposable ones are the ones with the big filter cartridges mostly used for doing hazardous work. Vented ones are the ones with the plastic valve in the fiber mask.

Both of these have breathing vents that open on exhalation and are designed to exhaust air rapidly. They improve the ease of breathing, but what they do is filter on inhalation and exhaust unfiltered air on exhalation. This works great when you are trying to keep sawdust from your lungs; it does little to keep you from exhaling contaminated particles.

for this crisis All of these face coverings are about keeping saliva vapor from the air; vented masks are inferior to no mask at all (because in that case you are aware of your potential to infect). Putting your t-shirt over your face is a better idea then a vented mask.

i am speaking in my capacity as someone who used to sell safety equipment for a living.


----------



## Barb Stout

Green Maned Lion said:


> To be clear wearing masks is a pain in the a- er, tuchus. I hate the things. I have a surgical mask (my wife got a few from a client who had them) and I have trouble breathing, I have trouble seeing, and I can’t breathe adequately when I go out to walk for exercise when wearing one- so I don’t wear one, I just cover my face and hold my breath and further distance when I come across other people.
> 
> But when I am in close confines with other people (like inside a store- or on a train), it is simply tough nuggies. We need to protect others. However, please listen up to the following:
> 
> DO NOT WEAR VENTED N95 RESPIRATORS OR NON-DISPOSABLE N95 FACE MASKS.
> 
> The non disposable ones are the ones with the big filter cartridges mostly used for doing hazardous work. Vented ones are the ones with the plastic valve in the fiber mask.
> 
> Both of these have breathing vents that open on exhalation and are designed to exhaust air rapidly. They improve the ease of breathing, but what they do is filter on inhalation and exhaust unfiltered air on exhalation. This works great when you are trying to keep sawdust from your lungs; it does little to keep you from exhaling contaminated particles.
> 
> for this crisis All of these face coverings are about keeping saliva vapor from the air; vented masks are inferior to no mask at all (because in that case you are aware of your potential to infect). Putting your t-shirt over your face is a better idea then a vented mask.
> 
> i am speaking in my capacity as someone who used to sell safety equipment for a living.


Wow, do you have images of N95 masks with and without the exhalation valves? And what about N100 masks? Is it the same deal there? My sister has a N100 mask from when she worked in old, dusty and rodent-infested buildings to avoid hantavirus as well as other things, I assume. Hers has those cylinders coming from the side of the face and looks like a gas mask, but without the face shield.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

The valves can be in a variety of places, so a specific picture would be pointless; the valves are made out of hard plastic, whereas the rest of the mask is made of fiber; if it had a substantial area, usually square or round, of the mask made of plastic it is likely valved; under its more Normal uses, a valve is a positive feature, so it’s usually advertised.

Cartridge-style masks all have valves; that’s how they work: all outside air is drawn in through a filter while the valve is closed by the negative internal air pressure (suction), thus filtering all air. When you exhale, there is positive air pressure in the mask, which opens the valve for you to exhale through. It will protect you from what it is supposed to that is outside of you, but will not filter it’s exhaust.

These masks are primarily designed to protect you from things in the air; they are not designed to protect the air from you. Non-vented N95s do this as a factor of their cheapness in not including a valve.

The virus is too small to be directly blocked from being drawn in by any type of mask that filters air. What masks do when you wear them for covid-19 is capture the moisture in your breath, which is the primary and most dangerous transmission of the virus. Any dense cellulose (cotton/paper) face covering will generally accomplish that task. If someone infected were to spit on your mask and you were to breathe in, it wouldn’t really protect you; that includes N95s.


----------



## PVD

One of the reasons why healthcare workers often wear face shields..


----------



## Thirdrail7

The Downeasters are "down and out" through 5/31 and there are rumblings of Acela restorations in early June.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Thirdrail7 said:


> The Downeasters are "down and out" through 5/31 and there are rumblings of Acela restorations in early June.


You're slipping TR7, Amtrak announced it on FB yesterday. 









Amtrak to Return Acela Service on the Northeast Corridor - Amtrak Media


WASHINGTON – Beginning June 1, Amtrak is restoring Acela service on the Northeast Corridor on a modified schedule in response to anticipated increased demand. Modified service will include the restoration of three weekday Acela roundtrips. Northeast Regional frequencies will also be increased...




media.amtrak.com


----------



## lordsigma

I still have a June booked joy ride with points. I am considering still going if my state (And destination state) has relaxed travel quarantining restrictions and if the Zephyr goes back to normal food service on June 1st as currently advertised. Given the fact that businesses will probably be closed in places it will likely be mostly just a train adventure if I go and I won’t stay long wherever I go. We shall see what happens! Given that it’s points I’m holding off on final decision making.


----------



## lonewolfette9847

Anyone else continuously fogging up their glasses while wearing their mask?

Or perhaps I’m just full of hot air.


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

lonewolfette9847 said:


> Anyone else continuously fogging up their glasses while wearing their mask?
> 
> Or perhaps I’m just full of hot air.


It's been happening to me, too, although not so much since I switched from a mask to a bandanna over the face.


----------



## me_little_me

Devil's Advocate said:


> The proper solution is for Amtrak to ensure the staff clean the coach bathrooms on a regular basis. Out of hundreds of coach flights I can count major issues with bathroom cleanliness on one hand, whereas on Amtrak I can count the number of times the coach bathroom was _not_ disgusting on one hand.


I don't know if it is in the current Amtrak Standards manual but it was in the older ones. At McDonalds and other major fast food restaurants, they have the same issue. The problem is caused by the customers but the solution is not to make an announcement chiding everyone for the state of the restrooms but instead to have the employees clean them on a regular basis and, if a customer tells the manager that a restroom needs attention, have an employee do it ASAP.

If Amtrak doesn't think their employees are nobodies and feels it is below their position on the train, then Amtrak needs to hire someone to do it - either by having someone periodically come aboard at one stop and clean until the next stop (then return by Amtrak-paid taxi) or have a fulltime cleaning person onboard whose only job is to keep bathrooms and cars clean. They would continuously go from end to end, periodically cleaning restrooms and around seats where people have departed, cleaning tables in the cafe, diner and lounge, and completely cleaning any rooms that have become unoccupied. At night, they would be on a reduced schedule (once a night with no vacuuming?), of course, so they can get some sleep.

The first or both of those could be contracted out as I am sure the staff wouldn't mind being able to drop the "requirement" to do that work in exchange for allowing Amtrak to contract it.


----------



## Qapla

I have found lowering my glasses on my nose a bit stops the fogging.

My wife and I discussed it and have finally decided - we are going to cancell our trip to Raleigh in July. We just don't things are really going to be back to normal enough for us to feel comfortable going for a week. The bummer thing is - this is the second year in a row we have had to cancell this trip ... last year it was Hurricane Dorian that caused the cancellation.


----------



## PVD

There are some good anti fog sprays that are used on hockey helmet visors.....Most of the players carry them in their bags.


----------



## pennyk

I was out walking and saw Silver Star 92 at a distance. The consist was much longer than it has been for a while. I know I saw 2 sleepers and 2 engines. It was too far away to count the number of coaches, but it appeared to be more than the typical 2. There was also a car at the rear that was deadheading. 
It appears that Silver Meteor 98 is not running today, which may explain the longer 92 consist. @Thirdrail7 do you know?


----------



## Thirdrail7

AmtrakBlue said:


> You're slipping TR7, Amtrak announced it on FB yesterday.



I'm not known for hanging out on FB and it doesn't do any good if the information isn't brought here. BTW, isn't FB the same place where they said they were taking that new high-speed train for a joyride?



pennyk said:


> I was out walking and saw Silver Star 92 at a distance. The consist was much longer than it has been for a while. I know I saw 2 sleepers and 2 engines. It was too far away to count the number of coaches, but it appeared to be more than the typical 2. There was also a car at the rear that was deadheading.
> It appears that Silver Meteor 98 is not running today, which may explain the longer 92 consist. @Thirdrail7 do you know?



It has 9 cars including the deadhead diner on the rear. This is bigger than the typical 5 car train that has been in service for the last month or so.


----------



## Barb Stout

Green Maned Lion said:


> The valves can be in a variety of places, so a specific picture would be pointless; the valves are made out of hard plastic, whereas the rest of the mask is made of fiber; if it had a substantial area, usually square or round, of the mask made of plastic it is likely valved; under its more Normal uses, a valve is a positive feature, so it’s usually advertised.
> 
> Cartridge-style masks all have valves; that’s how they work: all outside air is drawn in through a filter while the valve is closed by the negative internal air pressure (suction), thus filtering all air. When you exhale, there is positive air pressure in the mask, which opens the valve for you to exhale through. It will protect you from what it is supposed to that is outside of you, but will not filter it’s exhaust.
> 
> These masks are primarily designed to protect you from things in the air; they are not designed to protect the air from you. Non-vented N95s do this as a factor of their cheapness in not including a valve.
> 
> The virus is too small to be directly blocked from being drawn in by any type of mask that filters air. What masks do when you wear them for covid-19 is capture the moisture in your breath, which is the primary and most dangerous transmission of the virus. Any dense cellulose (cotton/paper) face covering will generally accomplish that task. If someone infected were to spit on your mask and you were to breathe in, it wouldn’t really protect you; that includes N95s.


Thank you for your very valuable information. It explains some of what my sister was saying about her old out-of-use N100 mask.


----------



## SarahZ

Mystic River Dragon said:


> However, as someone who tends to trip over her own feet in the best of circumstances, I am having trouble because I cannot see the ground when wearing one. I have tripped several times on my morning walks, and I am concerned about not being able to see the train steps, especially when detraining. Usually, I can see where I’m going, and the conductor helps me down.
> 
> Anyone else have similar concerns or ideas on how to handle this?


I noticed this the first time I wore one while grocery shopping. Every time I tried to look down toward my cart while unloading, I couldn't see.

You have to train yourself to actually move your head to look down rather than simply looking down with your eyes. Basically, pretend it's the middle of winter and you're walking on snow and ice.

Also, the mask may be too high on your nose and/or improperly fitted. I hemmed mine about a half-inch lower at the top. If you can sew, you can put a bit of wire** in the nose section to act as a clamp. (This also helps secure it.) That will assist even further when it comes to downward vision, and if you wear glasses, it can help prevent them from fogging up.

**Some people use pipe cleaners. I use floral wire in mine.


----------



## me_little_me

And, unless anyone has evidence that this doesn't work, may I suggest the following. I have used my CPAP desanitizer on my masks. I have an inexpensive $35 unit bought on Amazon that one puts in a plastic bag along with the mask (or connects to the tube which is connected to the machine). Now the problem with using these on a CPAP machine is that the ozone smell lingers and breathing ozone can cause respiratory issues so one has to (with difficulty) get rid of the smell in the tube and the tubes of the mask. However, for homemade masks for Covid, I sanitize them then leave them out in the sun (if available) or breeze and since there are no enclosed area, they smell fresh in an hour or two.
The one issue I noted is that the ozone can deteriorate the stretch material used to hold the mask on. My wife made some with rubber bands and they deteriorated after the first cleaning so now she takes them off before sanitizing. I used sanding masks with additional filtering material inside them. To make the stretch strap last longer, I supplement the existing staples that hold it to the mask with additional staples. By the time these have deteriorated, so has the mask physically from being knocked around so I throw them out at that point.


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## west point

Friend of mine came up with an idea. He has about 3 masks that he keeps on his car's dashboard. Sun shines on them by judicious parking of the car. Also his rubber gloves.


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## niemi24s

I keep a small spray bottle of denatured alcohol diluted with about 25% tap water and souse my paper or cloth masks with it. Hung over the rear view mirror to dry, the mask is ready for use again within about 20 minutes or so after it all evaporates. Have read the water helps the alcohol penetrate the cell wall of the virus. 70% "rubbing alcohol" right from the bottle works OK too (it's already 30% water), but the methyl and ethyl alcohols in denatured alcohol evaporate a bit quicker than does isopropyl alcohol.

And, yes, I'm well aware of the hazards of the various alcohols and ketones.


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## pennyk

I just canceled my roundtrip to San Diego in October (for the Gathering). I was told I would receive a credit to my credit card for the amount I charged to my credit card and would receive a voucher for the small amount (which expires a year from today) of the voucher that I used for payment. I hope I will feel comfortable to travel within a year. I am not sure I will.


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## MARC Rider

me_little_me said:


> but instead to have the employees clean them on a regular basis and, if a customer tells the manager that a restroom needs attention, have an employee do it ASAP.



That means they need to have enough redundancy in staffing that there's always a spare employee available to be able to do so, ASAP. That doesn't seem to be the way that retail businesses are run nowadays.



> If Amtrak doesn't think their employees are nobodies and feels it is below their position on the train, then Amtrak needs to hire someone to do it - either by having someone periodically come aboard at one stop and clean until the next stop (then return by Amtrak-paid taxi) or have a fulltime cleaning person onboard whose only job is to keep bathrooms and cars clean. They would continuously go from end to end, periodically cleaning restrooms and around seats where people have departed, cleaning tables in the cafe, diner and lounge, and completely cleaning any rooms that have become unoccupied. At night, they would be on a reduced schedule (once a night with no vacuuming?), of course, so they can get some sleep.



Well, after my experience on a crowded Vermonter, I thought that it would be possible to have a cleaner at New Haven who could swab out the restrooms. The train makes a pretty long stop there to change engines. Many of the long distance trains also have long station stops for crew changes, refueling, etc. Certainly they could also include a cleaning crew. The other alternative is to add a few more coach attendants per train and have random surprise inspections. It can be done, as I saw during my trip on the Silver Star, where the coach restroom was spotless the whole trip.


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## Samsbigtrip

MccfamschoolMom said:


> [...]And it's attractive enough that I can wear it around my neck during the day, so I never have to fumble in my purse for my mask.


I'm glad to hear you have a mask but, from what I have heard and read, once you take the mask off your face you should either seal it in a plastic bag until such time as you can wash it, or wash it straight away. 
This is because if you have touched the outside of the mask to take it off you may have contaminated your hands, or if your hands have already been contaminated you might pass the virus onto your face whilst lowering or removing the mask.
Just something to consider - stay safe, and stay well


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## gwolfdog

pennyk said:


> I just canceled my roundtrip to San Diego in October (for the Gathering). I was told I would receive a credit to my credit card for the amount I charged to my credit card and would receive a voucher for the small amount (which expires a year from today) of the voucher that I used for payment. I hope I will feel comfortable to travel within a year. I am not sure I will.


I don't know if you've read my exploits on my recent escape from Florida? Do I, understand your Anxiety! Wanted to go back for 6 months in December. How do you book another Place ahead of time in these times of Uncertainty? A lot of Owner's want it all upfront. I just want to stay out of a Veteran's Nursing Home.


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## Asher

Sanitizing my mask with UV rays. These rays from a TIG WELDING MACHINE have been fading my clothing for years. Thanks to a previous poster I’m using this method.


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## SarahZ

If it's sunny, I hang the mask from my rearview mirror when I get home. If it's cloudy, I wash it in the kitchen sink and hang it from a doorknob.


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## wwchi

Wow I am a regular rider on the Pere Marquette since 2006 (though not lately) and that line has been suspended during this virus until June 1. Just saw it is now suspended until OCTOBER 1!!! Wow! That has a large summertime usage (typically) so this is not good...(Chicago to Grand Rapids line).


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## Michigan Mom

Being silly, I know, still experiencing heartbreak from the cancellation of our LSL trip to New York. It is for the best, not much is going to change in the next couple of weeks and it does help to know I'm being more responsible to my family and to everyone else including Amtrak employees. 
Maybe that's why I found the SNL ode to New York so touching. 
Recommended viewing of just that skit if you're not a fan although being familiar with cast helps.
It may take a little longer than we would like, but we will get back to life as we thought we knew it.
In the meantime, if we can apply some lessons learned, it will be even better!


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## Green Maned Lion

This is going to be a longer slog than most realize, I think.


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## wwchi

agree- I think people are starting to realize that. This isn't impacting me that much as I don't "need" the train while working at home in one place and not going back and forth but I do know a lot of other regulars who this might have a greater impact on...


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## Bob Dylan

As the old Chinese Proverb says:
"May you Live in Interesting Times."

We certainly are!!!


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## Eric in East County

Is there any reliable evidence to suggest that people are contracting COVID-19 as a result of riding on AMTRAK trains?


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## Green Maned Lion

I don't think there is that much evidence of people directly contracting the virus as a result of the virus. [EDIT: WT*... I mean as a result of Amtrak. sheesh.] The thing is, its all a matter of spectrum. If I have MREs delivered to my porch, let them sit outside for 48 hours, and eat only that, risk the unpotable tap water in my sink, and stay inside my house, and treat my mail to its own 2-day quarantine with gloves and masks, I can nearly guarantee you I won't get the virus. I will, however, go loopy with boredom, fat with lack of exercise, and probably plot to murder various people at the DOD for how cruel and unusual military rations are to our troops.

If I go around like there is no Coronavirus, bump into people like a New Yorker on Broadway, never cover my face, and travel all over the country just to ensure I experience every possible regional variation of the darn thing, I will absolutely maximize my chance of catching the thing.

What makes sense is reaching a reasonable point somewhere in-between both options, which, at least to me, are both insanity. We go to the local grocery store, bakery, pharmacy, hardware and liquor store. We shop on eBay for what is not available at those places (I abhor Amazon). We go for two walks a day around our neighborhood, practicing social distancing, and making sure we are shielding ourselves from the people who we do encounter. We do take out once in a while, trying to balance monetary conservation in this uncertain time with avoiding boredom.

I would certainly choose to avoid, whenever possible, being in a space with a considerable number of people and a less-than-fully-ventilated air supply, such as a train, bus, or plane. It seems like an unreasonable risk to a limited purpose, since I can for the moment drive a car. Where would I take it to, anyway? Everything is closed and reduced almost everywhere. What would I sightsee? The boarded up windows of the St. Francis Hotel? Where would I stay?

This whole situation sucks completely. It is going to continue to suck until this virus is somehow defeated. You can't, however, get away from the reality that this virus sometimes kills, and even more frequently, and even worse in my opinion, injures. You can't get away from the fact that the world is going to be, to various degrees, shut down, possibly for a long time. You can't legislate the population into not being scared, you can't force people to eat in restaurants, or go to amusement parks, or visit sports arenas. The best thing to do is hunker down, stay safe, do your best to remain reasonably amused while doing so, and keep in mind that one day, by the grace of God, this, too, shall pass.


----------



## jis

Eric in East County said:


> Is there any reliable evidence to suggest that people are contracting COVID-19 as a result of riding on AMTRAK trains?


There are significant anecdotes of entire Amtrak crew being put under quarantine. I don;t know if that is because one of them came down with COVID or a passenger was found to be COVID positive.

But it is unlikely that Amtrak travel would have a significantly different probability of getting infected than being with other people in any enclosed environment with air circulated by HVAC systems. It all depends on how many people are traveling in a car and how many of them happen to be carrying significant viral load that they are shedding at the time that they are traveling.. R-zero I am certain is no different on Amtrak trains than anywhere else.


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## Lacunacoil

I read a article it was helpful, most of it consumed. Basically explained, you need many droplets of viral. One wont make u get this disease. Now, that may change but it's likely true or on long island ny we would all be sick by now. So, easiest way to get sick, someone talking sneezing coughing while facing you, especially without them having a mask. People spit out saliva when talking. I saw it other day! Friend was talking tona friend in a car, no mask, the angle sunlight I could see spit flying. I opened the car window. 
Also of concern is toilet bowl. When u flush it goes flying. I became a germaphobe 4 months before coronavirus after researching disease due to getting colds once every 6 weeks. I read it was from surfing but needed to try never touching anything others touch. And it's worked I haven't gotten a cold in 7 months. I should of had 4 by now. I also, now, never put my finger in my mouth until I wash hands and floss. For amtrak, it's best, to not get coronavirus, if you dont have a private room, to keep moving go outside every smoke break. Try go to bathroom is infrequently as possible. Monitor who used toilet, wait till one is empty 5 minutes keep door open a minute before u close it. Dont sit in your seat more than hour at a time. Always move around. If anyines coughs get the heck away. Wash face off outside at smoke breaks 2 times a day. I dont use sink on train other than hand washing. When u get to destination wash all clothes even those not dirty.


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## Barb Stout

jis said:


> There are significant anecdotes of entire Amtrak crew being put under quarantine. I don;t know if that is because one of them came down with COVID or a passenger was found to be COVID positive.


Is it possible that is why the Pere Marquette was cancelled or is it simply low numbers of travelers?


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## wwchi

Pere Marquette was initially suspended until May 31, restarting June 1...my guess is it was just a financial decision, though being a very full train all summer does make me question why canceling through September...who knows.


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## SarahZ

wwchi said:


> Pere Marquette was initially suspended until May 31, restarting June 1...my guess is it was just a financial decision, though being a very full train all summer does make me question why canceling through September...who knows.


It’s likely full in the summer because of the various festivals and summer travel. Since most, if not all, festivals have been canceled and people aren’t traveling, that would explain why they canceled it through the summer.


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## river

river said:


> Thanks.


----------



## Ilene

Planning to ride the autotrain in July from Sanford, FL to Lorton, VA. Does anyone know if the sleeping cars have their own ventilation system in each sleeping compartment or is air re-circulated throughout the whole sleeping car? I believe this is a Superliner 2 car from the mid-1990’s. Thank you for your response.


----------



## river

I had 2 sleeper car reservations for April 2020. I cancelled one yesterday via their automated process and was charged a 25% cancellation fee.
I came here to this forum and realized if I talked to an agent directly I could get a full refund. That option wasn't offered by "Julie".So today I cancelled my 2nd reservation for April with a full refund.

Is there any way I can get my 25% cancel fee (which was over $200) returned or am I out of luck? The agent I spoke to today said he couldn't do it and tried (unsuccessfully) to transfer me to Refunds.
Any suggestions? I did email Amtrak with my request, but not sure how responsive they will be.
Thanks. 



5/14/20: Just wanted to follow up on this: I finally DID receive my 25% cancel fee returned to me after 2 email refund requests and 6 weeks of waiting! I got a phone voice mail telling me to be on the look-out for it and it did show up a couple weeks later just as he said! YAY!!!


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## gwolfdog

Until I'm sure we'll be able to Travel Auto Train on certain date, we will put a hold on the sleeper car (5 days) . You have a few days to cancel before the trip, and are not charged anything, till you confirm, they take no payment info. This time we caught a flight back, didn't have to drive 10 hours, before and after, and was home in 3 hours Fort Lauderdale to Syracuse. Shipped car. A few bucks more but worth it during Pandemic. We're old and high risk. Would consider train again. We actually got cancelled after the Derailment.


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## Qapla

Ilene said:


> Does anyone know if the sleeping cars have their own ventilation system in each sleeping compartment or is air re-circulated throughout the whole sleeping car?



As far as I know ALL sleeper cars recirculate the air through the whole car



river said:


> Any suggestions?



Glad you got it taken care of. Next time, ask for "Customer Relations" - they seem to have more authority and knowhow to fix these sorts of problems.


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## Ilene

Qapla said:


> As far as I know ALL sleeper cars recirculate the air through the whole car
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you got it taken care of. Next time, ask for "Customer Relations" - they seem to have more authority and knowhow to fix these sorts of problems.


Thank you!


----------



## jis

Qapla said:


> As far as I know ALL sleeper cars recirculate the air through the whole car


Correct. Single air circulation system with drop vents in each room.

Also in general about 70% of the air is recirculated, and 30% outside air is mixed in.


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## MikeM

jis said:


> Correct. Single air circulation system with drop vents in each room.
> 
> Also in general about 70% of the air is recirculated, and 30% outside air is mixed in.


If you wanted to be a bit paranoid, you probably could purchase a residential 1" pleated filter in a smaller size, and use gaffer's tape to attach over the inlet grill on the ceiling. I read somewhere they change air filters on the trains on a regular basis, but suspect they use polyglass filters that are designed to capture large particles only, not small stuff...


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## Ilene

Thank you!


----------



## Devil's Advocate

jis said:


> Correct. Single air circulation system with drop vents in each room. Also in general about 70% of the air is recirculated, and 30% outside air is mixed in.


So far as I can tell there is no calculated mixing going on. Some of the air is recirculated and some simply wafts in through holes and seams.



MikeM said:


> If you wanted to be a bit paranoid, you probably could purchase a residential 1" pleated filter in a smaller size, and use gaffer's tape to attach over the inlet grill on the ceiling. I read somewhere they change air filters on the trains on a regular basis, but suspect they use polyglass filters that are designed to capture large particles only, not small stuff...


Whatever they use it's not enough to filter out break pad dust (probably bad for your lungs) and blue-brown mix (definitely bad for your nose). I like the idea of bringing your own 3M microfiber intake filter through. I wonder if that would work well enough to cut down on trips that suffer from excessive funk.


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## jis

Devil's Advocate said:


> So far as I can tell there is no calculated mixing going on. Some of the air is recirculated and some simply wafts in through holes and seams.


Yeah, anything is possible in operation. I was just stating what the original design for the HVAC system specified.


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## jis

CDC recommendation on mass transit reopening...



https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/pdf/MassTransit-DecisionTree.pdf


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## Qapla

MikeM said:


> use gaffer's tape to attach over the inlet grill on the ceiling



I guess it depends on what you are calling the "inet" grill.

If you mean the one that takes the air from your room back to the air recirculating system - that will do little good since the air you get back will not have all come from your room.

If you mean the vent that is bringing the air into your room - yes, a filter there may help but keep in mind that unfiltered air will still enter your room through the doorway.


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## Devil's Advocate

Qapla said:


> I guess it depends on what you are calling the "inet" grill. If you mean the one that takes the air from your room back to the air recirculating system - that will do little good since the air you get back will not have all come from your room. If you mean the vent that is bringing the air into your room - yes, a filter there may help but keep in mind that unfiltered air will still enter your room through the doorway.


What sort of experience are you pulling from when you tell us how the venting works in a sleeper?


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## jis

Devil's Advocate said:


> What sort of experience are you pulling from when you tell us how the venting works in a sleeper?


My impression is that there are multiple air flow vents that blows air into the room, specially in Viewliners. So I was indeed a bit confused with the categorical statement that there is one place where you could add a filter. But I could of course be wrong too.


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## gswager

From my observation on how the air circulates in Superliner, the inlet is located on the ceiling of lower level between the bathrooms and roomettes/family room. That is where the air filter is. The vent you see in the ceiling of each room is pushing the air out of room towards the lower level via stairways or outside such as vestibules.


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## jis

gswager said:


> From my observation on how the air circulates in Superliner, the inlet is located on the ceiling of lower level between the bathrooms and roomettes/family room. That is where the air filter is. The vent you see in the ceiling of each room is pushing the air out of room towards the lower level via stairways or outside such as vestibules.


Yeah AFAIR that is the case in Superliner, but not so in Viewliners. Air gets pushed into the room through the vents at the bottom of the window sill both upwards and sideways.


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## PeeweeTM

I'm not sure I can follow how all this filter stuff really impacts the reduction of the small change of getting this virus in your room on the train. I haven't read anything about the virus being transmitted via long airducts, only about droplets carrying the virus a few feet max, or transfer per direct contact between people and/or a contaminated surface. Most people and surfaces being free of this virus.

There might be better places to place a stop in the chain that leads to getting infected. Better then thinking a filter on a airduct will safe you from getting this virus.

I understand the whole situation is difficult and uncertain, but I think you get a false sense of control with useless meassures, which may lead to unsafe behavior on places where you can make a difference. 

Keep a bit distance from other people, wash you hands frequently, don't rub your eyes and don't lick doorknobs for now.
And for the long term, be healthy and (relatively) young...


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## gwolfdog

When I was recently trying to figure out the safest means out of Florida, plane or train? A Google search seemed to say planes had better filters and fresher air. Can you ever feel safe now? How many people in the airport or station coughing, or not showing symptoms? How many traveling wearing masks, how through was the cleaning? etc., etc. You can drive yourself nuts or your companion, trying to figure it out. I will Testify to that,


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## Green Maned Lion

Iused to run a safety business. I have learned that there are two factors in safety. One is the reality of safety, and the other is the perception. You would not believe how many of my customers who needed to purchase specialized respirators, such as organic vapor, would try to insist on N95 particulate respirators in order to make them feel safer. Almost no amount of me insisting that it would in fact do absolutely nothing would convince them that it wouldn’t. I learned to simply refuse to sell them tools that would not do the job they were asking to get done.

The scary truth is that you are better off lacking the perception of safety when safety is not present. This lack of perception will encourage you to treat the situation as if it is unsafe. Feeling like you are protected when you are not is in fact extremely dangerous. Ideas like putting HEPA filters on the air vents of roommates are an example of perception of safety.

The virus is not going to travel through the air system of the train anymore then it will an any other interchange of air, and the HEPA filter is going to do practically nothing to stop it. The travel distance of the air being expelled from roomette 1s passenger’s mouth, into the exit vent of roomette 1s air, through the ventilation system, into roomette 2s air vents, and from them into roomette 2s passengers bodily Orifices is almost certainly more than six feet. If anything is going to stop it, that fact is your main defense.

If you really have a feeling that you personally need to be in an effective bubble- and with a father who lost a third of a lung to one cancer, and is now suffering from mesothelioma, I feel you- I suggest you don’t travel- even by car, but certainly not by mass transit of any kind. Otherwise engage in suitable and reasonable precautions, and stop thinking of nonsensical protections that will most likely do nothing.


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## Qapla

Florida is well on its way to being "back open" and many of the precautions people were taking are no longer being used. Our county commissioners did not fully agree with the State as to some of the "freedoms" and have passed a mandate that face coverings must be worn in "public businesses/buildings". 

After reading some of the posts in this thread and GML's comment above I couldn't help but think of some of what I have seen around here.

On one hand, we have some who totally disregard the mandate and no longer wear a face covering at all. Some stores have posted "warning" about the mandate but say nothing to anyone who comes in without a mask on. Others, like Walmart, are refusing entry to anyone who does not adhere to the mandate.

Then there are those who are wear a mask even when they are driving in their own car with the windows up running their A/C. It seems to me that, when you are alone in your own car, especially with the windows up, your chances of being expose are so remote ... why wear something as uncomfortable as a mask when it is not adding any protection to what you already have by being alone in your car.

Like GML said, it seems highly unlikely that adding a filter to any of the vents of a "room" on the train will have any real impact when it comes to C-19.

But, like those who drive around with their masks on - better safe than reckless like those who insist they can now act like the virus never happened and everything is "business as usual"


----------



## me_little_me

Green Maned Lion said:


> The virus is not going to travel through the air system of the train anymore then it will an any other interchange of air, and the HEPA filter is going to do practically nothing to stop it. The travel distance of the air being expelled from roomette 1s passenger’s mouth, into the exit vent of roomette 1s air, through the ventilation system, into roomette 2s air vents, and from them into roomette 2s passengers bodily Orifices is almost certainly more than six feet. If anything is going to stop it, that fact is your main defense.



Excellent comments but one thing you fail to consider is that the 6' distance is based on the droplets falling to the ground via gravity before reaching you. There is a difference between the distance from one person to another in calm air and from those same two people when fans and vents (or even wind) push the air.
In any case, it wouldn't stop me from taking the train but the closeness of other people who don't wear masks or who don't practice good hygiene or the failure to adequately sanitize surfaces between uses by successive people would indeed concern me.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

The forced air system of the car operates in such a manner, from my experience, that the likelihood of the virus entering your compartment is nearly impossible. By the time the air from a given compartment enters another compartment, I would guess it has travelled somewhere around 90 feet, not six, circulating through an HVAC system in the process.


----------



## SarahZ

You also have to directly inhale a particle that contains the virus, and that particle has to contain enough of a viral load to infect you.

I seriously wouldn't worry about a common HVAC system. I'd be more concerned about close contact in enclosed spaces, such as the lounge or dining car.

I have multiple friends who are doctors, and they have all stated the largest risk comes from _prolonged, unprotected, direct _contact with someone who has an active viral load (i.e. 10 minutes or so with less than 6 feet of space between you).

Before everyone jumps all over me and caps-locks me to death, please note that I said "largest risk", not "only risk".


----------



## jis

Qapla said:


> On one hand, we have some who totally disregard the mandate and no longer wear a face covering at all. Some stores have posted "warning" about the mandate but say nothing to anyone who comes in without a mask on. Others, like Walmart, are refusing entry to anyone who does not adhere to the mandate.


Florida in general has less than 50% compliance with the mask mandate according to at least two estimates that I have seen so far.


> Then there are those who are wear a mask even when they are driving in their own car with the windows up running their A/C. It seems to me that, when you are alone in your own car, especially with the windows up, your chances of being expose are so remote ... why wear something as uncomfortable as a mask when it is not adding any protection to what you already have by being alone in your car.


That depends on how long you will be in your car between two out of car activities that might require having the mask on. It is not a good idea to repeatedly take the mask off and put it on since the act of doing so itself is more dangerous in terms of inadvertently feeding yourself some virus than just either keeping it off or keeping it on.


----------



## Qapla

jis said:


> It is not a good idea to repeatedly take the mask off and put it on



I see many who drop the facial covering (not all use actual masks) down to their necks and raise it back up when need be. Since a kerchief is an acceptable covering - this should not be difficult .... especially when the purpose of the mask isn't to keep you from getting the virus, it is to keep you from spreading the virus - so, puting it off and on should not cause any additional risk to you ... unless you are getting so close to those without a mask that they are "breathing/spitting" on your mask.

By keeping the mask on all the time can oversaturate it with moisture from your body and partially defeat the reason you are wearing it ... so, taking it off and on will help keep it drier.

BTW - That's why I carry more than one mask - we made our own since buying them was problematic, at best. When I go into a public building, I put my mask on. I DO NOT touch my mask or my glasses while in the store if I can help it. I do carry a "disinfectant wipe" with me incase I do have to touch my glasses and clean them off before putting them back on. When I get back to my vehicle, I clean my hands, keys and door handle with a new disinfectant wipe before I remove the mask.


----------



## jis

If there is any significant viral load around, dropping a mask and then pulling it up only moves the virus around closer to ones nose and mouth. It works OK in relatively low viral load areas like Florida where mainly the purpose of the mask is to reduce the flow of virus from inside the mask to outside and not protect much from anything coming from outside. I actually wear a real N95 respirator meant to keep bad things out, so the rules I follow are somewhat different. It is a real respirator so the issue of moisture and what not is much less. If I have to run multiple chores with frequent stops, I tend to just keep it on until I am done with all.


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## Devil's Advocate

The primary benefit of wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask is for _group protection_. Such a covering mainly helps to collect and contain infectious matter a mask-wearing carrier may expel before it can reach uninfected people and shared surfaces nearby. In other words, your mask helps keep the people around you safe while their masks help keep you safe. Wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask in close proximity to an infected person who is not wearing a mask is unlikely to keep you safe in and of itself.


----------



## jiml

Devil's Advocate said:


> The primary benefit of wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask is for _group protection_. Such a covering mainly helps to collect and contain infectious matter a mask-wearing carrier may expel before it can reach uninfected people and shared surfaces nearby. In other words, your mask helps keep the people around you safe while their masks help keep you safe. Wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask in close proximity to an infected person who is not wearing a mask is unlikely to keep you safe in and of itself.


I am so glad someone finally posted this. It is a completely accurate description of how "a cloth or consumer grade mask" works, according to many experts including Canada's equivalent of the Surgeon General. My wife, who just retired from a 40 year career in nursing, has been trying to tell people this. A non-respirator mask only works in one direction and reduces the spread _from_ an infected person. This is one reason they are called surgical masks, preventing the spread of infection to someone who is "opened up" during surgery. They don't do much in the other direction. This recently led to posts on social media that the masks needed to be reversed, i.e. blue side towards the face, to protect the wearer. We saw dozens of people doing this in the Costco line this week. The theory has been debunked - easily searchable on Google.

If you're healthy, the only purpose wearing a basic mask in public serves is to reassure others. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, but people shouldn't get a false sense of security that they're protected in a large group or if someone coughs or sneezes near them.


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## AmtrakBlue

Devil's Advocate said:


> The primary benefit of wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask is for _group protection_. Such a covering mainly helps to collect and contain infectious matter a mask-wearing carrier may expel before it can reach uninfected people and shared surfaces nearby. In other words, your mask helps keep the people around you safe while their masks help keep you safe. Wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask in close proximity to an infected person who is not wearing a mask is unlikely to keep you safe in and of itself.


Which is why I stop and turn my back to anyone not wearing a mask who is approaching to pass me. Gives me a little more protection.


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## Barb Stout

Green Maned Lion said:


> The scary truth is that you are better off lacking the perception of safety when safety is not present. This lack of perception will encourage you to treat the situation as if it is unsafe. Feeling like you are protected when you are not is in fact extremely dangerous. Ideas like putting HEPA filters on the air vents of roommates are an example of perception of safety.


Yes, I worked in the clinical laboratory setting back in the early days of HIV and this difference between perception of safety and actual safety is one of the reasons that health authorities implemented "Universal Precautions" where every blood and body fluid sample that came into the laboratory was treated as if it contained HIV or other deadly infectious microorganism. Prior to the implementation of universal precautions, the blood and body fluid samples that came from patients suspected to be infected with HIV were marked with a black star along with associated paperwork including certain patient records. The black star days did not last very long and the black star marks on patient paper records did not survive the transfer to everything being done on the computer.


----------



## Qapla

jiml said:


> I am so glad someone finally posted this.



Perhaps my explanation wasn't clear, I guess ... since 2 posts prior to this I had already made this same point ...



Qapla said:


> the purpose of the mask isn't to keep you from getting the virus, it is to keep you from spreading the virus - so, puting it off and on should not cause any additional risk to you


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## Samsbigtrip

Devil's Advocate said:


> The primary benefit of wearing a cloth or consumer grade mask is for _group protection_. [...]


We say "I wear my face-covering to protect you. You wear yours to protect me." I was rather self-conscious when I first went up to the shop in mine (I have several and wash them after each use), but I think that the more people wear them the more people will be encouraged to do the same.
Stay safe everyone, stay well - and as our Prime Minister says "Stay a lert" whatever that is!


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## Ziv

I am flying from DCA to Montana on the 28th and I am going to take 3 face masks, each in a zip loc bag. I only need one, but I figure that I will take it off in Denver during the layover so I ought to have a spare. If I could take my Lysol Spray Disinfectant I could clean the face mask by spraying it and leaving it in the zip loc for 10 minutes or more. But since Lysol cans are not allowed to be carried I will have to have a clean mask for each leg of the trip and one for meeting my Mom in Montana. Which reminds me, I have to ask my Mom to see if she can buy a can or two of Lysol before I get there for me and the Air BNB I am staying at... 
I will bring a dozen pairs of disposable gloves in a separate zip loc.
I am really curious to see how DCA, DEN, Billings Logan International and United are handling their Covid-19 precautions. 
Any advice on safe traveling would be appreciated. Though I think I am going to be pretty safe, you never know what you don't know.


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## Barb Stout

Ziv said:


> If I could take my Lysol Spray Disinfectant I could clean the face mask by spraying it and leaving it in the zip loc for 10 minutes or more. But since Lysol cans are not allowed to be carried I will have to have a clean mask for each leg of the trip and one for meeting my Mom in Montana. Which reminds me, I have to ask my Mom to see if she can buy a can or two of Lysol before I get there for me and the Air BNB I am staying at...


I really would not apply Lysol to anything you're going to put up against your face. Wash the mask with soap and water and let it dry. If you have several masks, bring them to wear while the newly cleaned one is drying (in the sun, if you can).


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## niemi24s

Barb Stout said:


> I really would not apply Lysol to anything you're going to put up against your face.


And, pray tell, why not? The MSDS for this product. . . https://www.vercounty.org/MSDS/SDS-Tech Services/21-Professional Lysol Disinfectant Spray All Scents_SDS.pdf . . .shows its disinfecting ingredient to be ethyl alcohol with gaseous (once sprayed) propellants. The gaseous propellants dissipate into the atmosphere and after the ethyl alcohol evaporates what remains is - uh - the mask.

In addition, Lysol Disinfectant Spray is on the EPA list of approved Covid-19 disinfectants (see EPA Registration Number 777-99 here: List N: Disinfectants for Use Against SARS-CoV-2 | US EPA )

Edited to add: And the fabric or paper of the mask should be totally saturated with any disinfectant spray - and not merely given a light moistening.


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## Ziv

I use antibacterial soap to give the mask a good cleaning when there is time for the mask to dry but that won't be the case during a 1 hour layover. I have Japanese friends who have used the zip loc technique over the years since SARS. It is fairly common in Japan, apparently. It seems to work well. 



Barb Stout said:


> I really would not apply Lysol to anything you're going to put up against your face. Wash the mask with soap and water and let it dry. If you have several masks, bring them to wear while the newly cleaned one is drying (in the sun, if you can).


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Samsbigtrip said:


> Stay safe everyone, stay well - and as our Prime Minister says "Stay a lert" whatever that is!



Be a lert. The world needs all the lerts it can get. (Sorry, my erstwhile sense of humor has not matured. The rest of me hasn't really either, but we'll conveniently ignore that.)

My wife is a house cleaner, and guidance on our situation remains generally unclear. Some of the people who she knows in the business are still engaging with every client that will have them. I consider that a violation of our governors stay at home order. I honestly can't think of a lack of risk in a business that goes into one persons home, scrubs the floors and walls and tabletops, and then transports themselves to another home- even fully with PPE.

Her class of job isn't specifically listed, but I've decided to classify her as "personal care" as provided in someone's home without medical need. When the governor allows that class of person to resume work, we'll resume our work life. Or at least try to- three quarters of her clients canceled before we decided to pull the plug ourselves.


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## Devil's Advocate

Ziv said:


> If I could take my Lysol Spray Disinfectant I could clean the face mask by spraying it and leaving it in the zip loc for 10 minutes or more. But since Lysol cans are not allowed to be carried I will have to have a clean mask for each leg of the trip and one for meeting my Mom in Montana.


They actually sell a travel size that will clear TSA requirements, but I still wouldn't recommend it for off-label usage unless you're truly stuck with no other solution. I mainly use it for situations like cleaning a sticky armrest, soiled seat tray, funky toilet seat, or lavatory door handle.


Looks like this. ^



niemi24s said:


> And, pray tell, why not? The MSDS for this product...shows its disinfecting ingredient to be ethyl alcohol with gaseous (once sprayed) propellants. The gaseous propellants dissipate into the atmosphere and after the ethyl alcohol evaporates what remains is - uh - the mask. In addition, Lysol Disinfectant Spray is on the EPA list of approved Covid-19 disinfectants


The last time I looked into such things Lysol's disinfectant efficacy was unproven on cloth surfaces. Lysol is labeled and intended for hard nonporous surfaces rather than woven fibers. Tested on-label usage did not include spraying facial coverings used in close proximity to active airways and mucous membranes. Lasting effects of moderate exposure may appear subclinical in primitive test subjects with limited means of higher-level cognitive analysis. Common industrial propellants can harm or even kill with excessive off-label exposure and most consumers are unlikely to be aware of this. Last but not least the EPA seems to have switched roles and now appears to be focused primarily on placating industry and protecting polluters from pesky consumers. When agency staff have spoken up about a lack of rigorous testing, monitoring, and investigating they were ignored or fired instead of protected. So I'd take any recent endorsements with a grain of salt.


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## Green Maned Lion

Devil's Advocate said:


> 4. Common industrial propellants can harm or even kill you with excessive off-label exposure.



Lets remove "off-label" from that. Most substances that are generally immediately deadly to viruses (or bacteria, insects, and other living organisms) are going to be harmful in substantially larger doses (or extensive numbers of doses) to larger forms of life, such as, well, humans. Lysol's purpose and intent is to kill unwanted orgamisms (aka germs). There is nothing about it that particularly formulates it to kill "organisms we don't like" and to be inert to "organisms we do like". 

It is relatively "safe" for use in contact with humans because the dosage of lysol required to kill tiny little things so small we can't even see them is not enough to immediately kill dogs, cats, or us. But if you spray that scheiße on something you are going to spend the next period of time breathing through, I would be extremely surprised if it did not do damage to your mouth, nose, throat, and lungs. 

As with how we isolate ourselves from the virus vs try to live our lives, sanitizing things with harmful substances to protect us from other harmful things is a balancing act. If you wish to sanitize your mask, I would suggest the same substance my wife, as a professional house cleaner, uses for the same purpose. That is a 40% solution of Ethyl alcohol in water- also known as cheap vodka. Its not harmless to you, but it is less harmful than lysol, and still very likely to sanitize your mask.

Unlike lysol, you can also use this solution to sanitize yourself internally, although I suspect the clinical efficacy of this is lacking. Still, I am going to take this precaution, although I am going use a 47% solution suspended in water made from a single Islay or Highland malt and aged 12-15 years. At least that's my excuse for my continued war on my liver and kidneys.


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## Eric in East County

This morning, we called _Amtrak_ and canceled our July trip back to Ohio. We had to cancel last year’s trip when a gall bladder issue arose for Pat shortly before we were scheduled to leave. We’d booked this year’s trip last January, well before anybody knew about COVID-19 and the impact it was going to have on the country. While we weren’t too concerned about traveling by train, things back in Ohio are still a little unsettled, which is why we decided to postpone our trip until next year.

We called _Amtrak _first thing this morning and got through to an agent right away. Our _Southwest Chief_ tickets had been purchased using a combination of cash and an _e-voucher_. Handling this type of a refund must have spooked the first agent we talked to since she put us on hold and never came back. After about 20 minutes of holding, another agent picked up and was able to straighten everything out. We’ll be getting back the cash payment we made last January and another _e-voucher_ good for the next 12 months. (The lady that handles the e-vouchers was apparently not there today but will be in tomorrow. The agent said she’d call us back tomorrow afternoon to verify that the _e-voucher_ went through. She then transferred us to _Guest Rewards_, since our _Pacific Surfliner_ and _Capitol Limited_ tickets had been purchased using travel points. We got all of them back and plan to use them next year, along with the e-voucher. 

Naturally, we disappointed about having to cancel our trip, but we can see that it was for the best. 

Stay safe.

Eric & Pat


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## Samsbigtrip

Ziv said:


> I am flying from DCA to Montana on the 28th and I am going to take 3 face masks, each in a zip loc bag. I only need one, but I figure that I will take it off in Denver during the layover so I ought to have a spare. [...]


You should take as many as you can because you should not put a face-covering back on once you have taken it off. When you take it off be very careful not to let the outside of the mask touch your face. You should seal it in a zip-lock bag (until you can wash it in hot soapy water), and then wash your hands. You should also wash your hands before putting on a clean mask.
Happy travels!


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## Samsbigtrip

Green Maned Lion said:


> Be a lert. The world needs all the lerts it can get. (Sorry, my erstwhile sense of humor has not matured. The rest of me hasn't really either, but we'll conveniently ignore that.)
> [...]


The old ones are the best! 
It's such a ridiculous thing for him to say - I have to be alert in my own home for what? The previous advice was the best (after the initial attempt a herd immunity) "Stay Home, Stay Safe!


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## Barb Stout

Ziv said:


> I use antibacterial soap to give the mask a good cleaning when there is time for the mask to dry but that won't be the case during a 1 hour layover. I have Japanese friends who have used the zip loc technique over the years since SARS. It is fairly common in Japan, apparently. It seems to work well.


I made that statement based on personal experience with eye irritation and shortness of breath after entering places that had been sprayed with Lysol, not by looking at the ingredients. I guess you'll know pretty much know right away if your proposed method will cause problems for you or not. I am fairly sensitive to cleaners; for awhile I also had trouble with bleach having been sensitized to it over the years of using it in the clinical (and research) labs. And laundry!


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## 20th Century Rider

At this time we are only able to contain this viral disease… we won’t be safe until there’s consistency with an actual cure, and a preventative vaccine. We DON’T have that yet. It has been shown that when folks come together for religious gatherings, sporting events, socializing in homes, and sitting around a table at meals... have brought lethal outcomes. Travel has aways had some risks, but now more than ever. Understood; we're all feeling restless as a kid sitting in a classroom on a sunny spring day!

Be patient and stay safe and maintain logical reasoning. Listen to the medical professionals, it may be a year until things return to some semblance of normal. Staying home and social distancing are how we can slow the spread of the virus... discipline and patience can literally save your life. Regardless of 'opening up' policies, always better to er on the side of caution. Best of wishes and good luck to us all!


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## NS VIA Fan

The US/Canada Border is to remain closed to non-essential travel until at least June 21......so no resumption of Amtrak service until then and probably longer than that!









US-Canada border will remain closed to nonessential travel for at least another month


Calling the border with the United States a clear point of "vulnerability" for Canada in terms of Covid-19 infections, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Tuesday that by mutual agreement, the border will remain closed to nonessential travel until at least June 21.




www.cnn.com


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## Siegmund

Ziv said:


> I am flying from DCA to Montana on the 28th....
> I am really curious to see how DCA, DEN, Billings Logan International and United are handling their Covid-19 precautions.



It may change by the 28th -- but right now, the Montana National Guard will meet your flight, take your temperature, and ask you where you are planning to serve your 14-day quarantine (though they won't actually check up on you to see if you do; there was generally no enforcement action in Montana of the stay-at-home order or the travel restrictions. Police don't ask where you are going at routine traffic stops.)


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## MARC Rider

Green Maned Lion said:


> Unlike lysol, you can also use this solution to sanitize yourself internally, although I suspect the clinical efficacy of this is lacking. Still, I am going to take this precaution, although I am going use a 47% solution suspended in water made from a single Islay or Highland malt and aged 12-15 years. At least that's my excuse for my continued war on my liver and kidneys.


Sorry to be a nitpicker, but in the potion you plan to use, the ethanol is dissolved in the water, not "suspended." Also, it's the ethanol that's made from a single malt, not the water, but it is true that the resulting solution is aged for 12-15 years.

You are correct in that internal use of this solution will give your liver and kidneys a workout, but if you keep the use moderate, your lifespan should not be reduced too much.

I just bought my first bottle of hand sanitizer made by a repurposed brewery. It says "topical use only," which makes me suspect they denatured the stuff before they could sell it outside of a liquor store.


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## Green Maned Lion

Moderation is for Monk’s. Everything in excess.


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## Michigan Mom

I've been using old T shirts cut into big squares then doubled to form a bandana shape. The nice thing is that they cover down to the collar area, are tucked in, and used once, then tossed in the washer. Every time I go into a store I wonder how the employees feel about people coming in, resembling would be robbers! Then again this is now a gesture of respect. Also been reliant on glasses instead of my contacts, for additional protection, once home, can wash face and glasses both. 
There is so much happening now that maybe should have been happening sooner. People being conscious of hand washing, sanitizing surfaces, and not having loud cell phone conversations into the air while shopping, are all developments that are arguably way overdue anyway.


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## Green Maned Lion

My local grocery store won’t let me and my wife shop together anymore. I mean I get it; their building is rated for 32 people; under our governors rule that means they can handle 16- they have eight employees. They just can’t afford having the two of us when they are only able to accommodate 8 customers.

i don’t consider this an improvement, but we didn’t have the kind of dummkopfs you were talking about before this.


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## NS VIA Fan

Green Maned Lion said:


> My local grocery store won’t let me and my wife shop together anymore. I mean I get it; their building is rated for 32 people...…...



Even our large grocery stores are discouraging two family members shopping together but they're certainly not checking ID's at the door...... and I saw a sign at one of the small family run stores suggesting you pick up a surprise for dinner tonight or treat for the Significant Other you had to leave at home!


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## jiml

NS VIA Fan said:


> Even our large grocery stores are discouraging two family members shopping together but they're certainly not checking ID's at the door.


It's the same here at most, although Costco and some others still allow two. Since people are only admitted one-at-a-time it's fairly easy to regulate. Our stores are never crowded - it's simply a case of big city rules to control crowds there applied to every location in a chain.


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## 20th Century Rider

This Oregon Coast community of mostly conservative and careful seniors seems to work very hard at staying safe… we all wear the masks, are courteous with each other, and keep a distance. However some of the newbie retiree workers who are supposed to be wiping down the carts just stand around doing absolutely nothing except collecting their minimum wage salaries… hmmm; and then there are the tough guys who push ahead in the checkout lines, aren’t wearing the masks, and who smile and intentionally get in your face with a very rude ‘hi there… ! And spray you with their covid mist… showing their virility… yup… we got ‘um here and they’re all over the country. So, it’s not perfect but we continue to try.


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## Barb Stout

Michigan Mom said:


> I've been using old T shirts cut into big squares then doubled to form a bandana shape. The nice thing is that they cover down to the collar area, are tucked in, and used once, then tossed in the washer.


I tried the t-shirt and also shirt method, but it kept sliding off at the "ties". How do you get yours to "stick"?


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## 20th Century Rider

Skyline said:


> Sleepers are better than coach travel for this issue, but you are assuming your room was thoroughly sterilized since the last occupancy. I'm not sure that's the case during hectic turnarounds. Almost impossible when a room is vacated mid-route.


A lot depends on the attendant... they range from amazing to offensively poor. I had an attendant on the Coast Starlight who sat in his room playing video games... refusing to bring dinner to my room. And the car was almost completely empty. Then I've had attendants who put out their own candy and magazines at the coffee area and came by frequently to see if they could get me anything. Of course, the last one was generously tipped... the lazy one? A complaint made to customer service. I don't wish bad on anyone but for price paid one should expect reasonable service. And NOW cleaning and sanitizing will be a big issue.


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## Ziv

Good to know. I am going to be staying at an AirBNB that has been vacant for almost a month and spending my days outside rounding up cattle and then branding calves, so I figure I will be pretty safe. Glad to have a heads up about the National Guard. 



Siegmund said:


> It may change by the 28th -- but right now, the Montana National Guard will meet your flight, take your temperature, and ask you where you are planning to serve your 14-day quarantine (though they won't actually check up on you to see if you do; there was generally no enforcement action in Montana of the stay-at-home order or the travel restrictions. Police don't ask where you are going at routine traffic stops.)


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## Ziv

I started using the Lysol and Ziploc technique in late March and it works pretty well, though it isn't like I can get a viral load count both before and after. ;-)
I let the mask outgas for a minute after I take it out of the bag and that seems to eliminate the "rush" I got when I tried putting the mask on right away after giving it a Lysol "soak". Now I have more than one mask, so I am usually able to able to use a fresh mask in a clean Ziploc instead of cleaning the one and only mask over the course of the day. I figure taking 3 masks will mean I won't need the Lysol at all on my trip.
I had one of the little travel Lysols but it got used up fairly quickly. I haven't seen any Lysol Disinfectant Spray available in a while. :-(



Barb Stout said:


> I made that statement based on personal experience with eye irritation and shortness of breath after entering places that had been sprayed with Lysol, not by looking at the ingredients. I guess you'll know pretty much know right away if your proposed method will cause problems for you or not. I am fairly sensitive to cleaners; for awhile I also had trouble with bleach having been sensitized to it over the years of using it in the clinical (and research) labs. And laundry!


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## 20th Century Rider

For whatever it's worth, I keep with me an aerosol sprayer [I got from the dollar store] containing a solution of 20% chlorine bleach and 80% water; and lots of paper toweling. This serves as a cautionary disinfectant any time I may have been physically exposed... in a store or whatever. OF COURSE, this is in addition to wearing a mask when in the vicinity of others. When I remove the mask I spray that as well with the disinfectant. I also spray my hands and paper toweling and do a thorough wipe frequently when out and about. These EXTRA ounces are worth pounds of cure... for sure!


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## west point

Rider:: remember all bleach is not the same. You have to check the label for the percentage of sodium hypochlorite.


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## tricia

I carry a spray bottle in my truck, too--but it's got 75% pure grain alcohol, aka Everclear. (Methyl alcohol disappeared from stores around here in March.) Alcohol usually doesn't fade colors, and bleach is pretty nasty stuff.


----------



## Palmland

Saw this speculation on Axios on what dining out may look like. Sounds like Amtrak is ahead of the times with dumbed down dining. 
**************
“Here's what's changing, according to restaurateurs and industry consultants: 

*Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.

*Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.
*Diners may have to wait *in their cars or on the sidewalk for a text saying their table is ready.
*People may have to order* their whole meal — from appetizers through dessert — all at once, to minimize encounters with the staff.
*Paper tablecloths *will replace fabric ones, condiments won't be left on the table, and disposable plates and glasses may reign supreme.
*Less frequent *busing of tables, to avoid contact. Patrons will likely be asked to wear masks on their way to their table or when visiting the restroom (though not while actually eating).
*To meet demand *for "distanced" tables, some restaurants are seeking to expand into sidewalk cafes.” (or your roomette)!


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## Barb Stout

Palmland said:


> “Here's what's changing, according to restaurateurs and industry consultants:
> 
> *Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.
> 
> *Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.




Gosh, maybe the shields separating the tables might also cut down on the noise. If that's the case, I might be persuaded to go out to eat more. I stopped years ago when the entertainment industry decided that louder is better and more fun. But then again, I would likely gain a lot of weight given the kinds of meals most restaurants have on their menu.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Palmland said:


> Saw this speculation on Axios on what dining out may look like. Sounds like Amtrak is ahead of the times with dumbed down dining.
> **************
> “Here's what's changing, according to restaurateurs and industry consultants:
> 
> *Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.
> 
> *Tables and booths* will be separated by everything from plexiglass shields to clear shower curtains.
> *Diners may have to wait *in their cars or on the sidewalk for a text saying their table is ready.
> *People may have to order* their whole meal — from appetizers through dessert — all at once, to minimize encounters with the staff.
> *Paper tablecloths *will replace fabric ones, condiments won't be left on the table, and disposable plates and glasses may reign supreme.
> *Less frequent *busing of tables, to avoid contact. Patrons will likely be asked to wear masks on their way to their table or when visiting the restroom (though not while actually eating).
> *To meet demand *for "distanced" tables, some restaurants are seeking to expand into sidewalk cafes.” (or your roomette)!


See, Amtrak was just being forward thinking when they made all those changes to the diner.


----------



## Michigan Mom

Barb Stout said:


> I tried the t-shirt and also shirt method, but it kept sliding off at the "ties". How do you get yours to "stick"?



Barb, double knot! Takes some experimentation, you have to have your hair tied back or in a bun, seems to work best tied over the top of your ears.


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## Asher

I'm wondering, I saw a TV clip of V P. Pence in a crowded restaurant, no masks worn by anyone and he serving himself a drink from a public soda dispenser. I myself don't approve, anyone have a understanding of this behavior.


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## tricia

anumberone said:


> I'm wondering, I saw a TV clip of V P. Pence in a crowed restaurant, no masks worn by anyone and he serving himself a drink from a public soda dispenser. I myself don't approve, anyone have a understanding of this behavior.



Delusional? Or willing to do anything, no matter how risky or stupid or discourteous, to please his boss?

Unless this is an old photo, taken pre-C19?


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## gwolfdog

anumberone said:


> I'm wondering, I saw a TV clip of V P. Pence in a crowed restaurant, no masks worn by anyone and he serving himself a drink from a public soda dispenser. I myself don't approve, anyone have a understanding of this behavior.


If I was capable of understanding this Behavior, I'd be the President.


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## IndyLions

tricia said:


> Delusional? Or willing to do anything, no matter how risky or stupid or discourteous, to please his boss?
> 
> Unless this is an old photo, taken pre-C19?


Not a fan of the VP or his boss, but from what I’ve seen of him lately, he’s been wearing a mask in public regularly. The blowback from the maskless photo (at Mayo?) had an effect on HIM at least...


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## Palmland

My wife saw a pulmonologist yesterday for a follow up of respiratory infection this past winter. She said a mask mainly protects the other guy from your germs/virus, especially the larger moisture droplets. Very important if you've been sick or are asymptomatic for the virus. Does little to protect you from breathing in someone else's microns of any infection (without a N-95 mask). Of course the problem with that is, how do you know you are asymptomatic and no way is everyone going to be tested every day to find out. That's why this virus is so dangerous.

CBS news had a report this morning that said science now thinks it is very unlikely you will pick up the virus from contact with a hard surface. Another report said most severe cases appear to be related to those in a crowded place where the virus may be concentrated. Especially so if there is a lot of cheering or singing. So much for MLB.. Bottom line though, for those of us in a high risk category, better to be safe than sorry. The science and recommendations seem to change daily. It would seem to me that younger people would be much safer outdoors with social distancing (no crowds) where the UV rays negate much of the impact of the virus. I suspect beaches and parks will be popular this summer as everyone has cabin fever. Although it will be hard to control friends getting together and having a good time. Pray for a vaccine.


----------



## capltd29

I'm a little late to this discussion, but thought I would chime in on the ventilation discussion. As mentioned above, Covid is primarily transmitted by droplets, from a cough or sneeze or very vigorous phonation like screaming or singing. It can become airborne or aerosolized by certain procedures such as use of a CPAP or BiPAP or a nebulizer machine. I could see a scenario where an infected passenger innocently uses their CPAP on the train and creates an airborne situation and could potentially contaminate nearby people. I still think its unlikely it would be able to travel through all of the duct work to a far away room. I don't know if Amtrak has temporarily banned the use of these devices, but they probably should...although the chances of an asymptomatic person carrying COVID 19 happens to be using a CPAP on the train near where you are sleeping seem exceedingly low. 

In my ER we are not able to use BIPAP unless in a negative pressure room with people wearing full N95s or PAPRs. We also are using MDIs instead of Nebulizers for this reason. 


I have an upcoming trip on 7 and 8 beginning in Early July. We have 2 deluxe rooms. I plan to pack 2 N95s for each of us which have been sanitized by sitting in isolation for 2 months, really for only heavy crowd situations, which hopefully will be rare. Outside of really close contact, N95s aren't needed and as a HCP it really pains me to see people out wearing them to the grocery store or on a walk with the dog. Also, bringing several cloth and surgical masks to wear the rest of the time. Hand hygiene and surface cleaning are the most important factors in my opinion. Of course, if the situation gets worse or someone get sick, we will cancel, but I'm still hopeful.


----------



## gwolfdog

Palmland said:


> My wife saw a pulmonologist yesterday for a follow up of respiratory infection this past winter. She said a mask mainly protects the other guy from your germs/virus, especially the larger moisture droplets. Very important if you've been sick or are asymptomatic for the virus. Does little to protect you from breathing in someone else's microns of any infection (without a N-95 mask). Of course the problem with that is, how do you know you are asymptomatic and no way is everyone going to be tested every day to find out. That's why this virus is so dangerous.
> 
> CBS news had a report this morning that said science now thinks it is very unlikely you will pick up the virus from contact with a hard surface. Another report said most severe cases appear to be related to those in a crowded place where the virus may be concentrated. Especially so if there is a lot of cheering or singing. So much for MLB.. Bottom line though, for those of us in a high risk category, better to be safe than sorry. The science and recommendations seem to change daily. It would seem to me that younger people would be much safer outdoors with social distancing (no crowds) where the UV rays negate much of the impact of the virus. I suspect beaches and parks will be popular this summer as everyone has cabin fever. Although it will be hard to control friends getting together and having a good time. Pray for a vaccine.


I hope he was wearing a Mask. When my wife saw her Oncologist on Wednesday he wasn't. The arrogance.


----------



## Palmland

Yes, she had a mask, a scarf over her hair, a coat, and only her eyes showing, We waited while they cleaned and disinfected the exam room we were going to. She disinfected her stethoscope while talking after the exam and same for her laptop keyboard where she made notes. One disturbing comment: she says a lot of false positive and negatives for patients who are tested - about 30%. One patient who was on a ventilator was tested 3 times before he tested positive. My wife had a test several months ago and then an antibody test this week. Both negative and she feels fine.

Your oncologist may get a daily test so feels he cannot transmit the virus, but that is still surprising.


----------



## capltd29

Palmland said:


> Yes, she had a mask, a scarf over her hair, a coat, and only her eyes showing, We waited while they cleaned and disinfected the exam room we were going to. She disinfected her stethoscope while talking after the exam and same for her laptop keyboard where she made notes. One disturbing comment: she says a lot of false positive and negatives for patients who are tested - about 30%. One patient who was on a ventilator was tested 3 times before he tested positive. My wife had a test several months ago and then an antibody test this week. Both negative and she feels fine.
> 
> Your oncologist may get a daily test so feels he cannot transmit the virus, but that is still surprising.


Way more false negatives than positives, since its a PCR test. The newer generations are better than the original test where the 70% sensitivity came from. Its also very operator dependent on going far enough back and holding it long enough. People should wear a mask whether they've tested negative or not. Period. Including the president.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

It's a scary world when you can't be to sure of the honesty of things like that.


----------



## Chey

capltd29 said:


> Hand hygiene and surface cleaning are the most important factors in my opinion.



What do you make of the CDC now saying Covid-19 doesn't spread easily from contaminated surfaces? I was very surprised. They haven't reversed themselves about hand washing at least


----------



## capltd29

I haven't heard that. I've only heard that it can last hours to days on surface. Do you have a link I can look at? People should wash their hands.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Chey said:


> What do you make of the CDC now saying Covid-19 doesn't spread easily from contaminated surfaces? I was very surprised. They haven't reversed themselves about hand washing at least






capltd29 said:


> I haven't heard that. I've only heard that it can last hours to days on surface. Do you have a link I can look at? People should wash their hands.



Apparently the news outlets have misunderstood some changes the CDC made to it's website per this report:

CDC Advice On Surface Spread Of COVID-19 'Has Not Changed,' Agency Says


----------



## Asher

tricia said:


> Delusional? Or willing to do anything, no matter how risky or stupid or discourteous, to please his boss?
> 
> Unless this is an old photo, taken pre-C19?


I was current, video from yesterday. Same day his boss was showing his mug to the Ford Execs.


----------



## Asher

AmtrakBlue said:


> Apparently the news outlets have misunderstood some changes the CDC made to it's website per this report:
> 
> CDC Advice On Surface Spread Of COVID-19 'Has Not Changed,' Agency Says


The numbers don't lie. This stuff is not too hard to acquire.


----------



## me_little_me

capltd29 said:


> I'm a little late to this discussion, but thought I would chime in on the ventilation discussion. As mentioned above, Covid is primarily transmitted by droplets, from a cough or sneeze or very vigorous phonation like screaming or singing. It can become airborne or aerosolized by certain procedures such as use of a CPAP or BiPAP or a nebulizer machine. I could see a scenario where an infected passenger innocently uses their CPAP on the train and creates an airborne situation and could potentially contaminate nearby people. I still think its unlikely it would be able to travel through all of the duct work to a far away room. I don't know if Amtrak has temporarily banned the use of these devices, but they probably should...although the chances of an asymptomatic person carrying COVID 19 happens to be using a CPAP on the train near where you are sleeping seem exceedingly low.


Violation of ADA. Amtrak, like other corporations, is required to make reasonable accommodation for those with disabilities.


----------



## Lacunacoil

I pulled up to my hotel on long island and canceled due to no individual air conditioning vents, I could see from outside it was shared air system. Right now shared air systems bother me mentally with coronavirus. I do shop daily but usually in out in 15 minutes. If I can get antibody test n find out I already had coronavirus I'd get on train tomorrow to los Angeles from nyc. Right now I'm scared.


----------



## HenryK

capltd29 said:


> . As mentioned above, Covid is primarily transmitted by droplets, from a cough or sneeze or very vigorous phonation like screaming or singing.


Damn, I had to look up "phonation."


----------



## HenryK

Since I live in a retirement community whose population is aged and largely infirm, I am treating every hard surface I encounter as if it is radioactive, keeping people 12 feet away (not 6) even if they are masked, and staying 30 feet away if they aren't. And I handwash and sanitize to beat the band. Being paranoid and hypochondriac has helped me live to the age of 80, and I plan to continue. As for changes at the CDC, science is always second-guessing itself—that is its nature—and I have no trouble with its tweaking of data and advice.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

From what I can tell people tend to approach this in two formats- uninformed and overly cautious, or uninformed and overly reckless. 

I would suggest making an effort to not touch surfaces with your hands or frontal areas of your body you tend to touch with your hands, and certainly avoid touching your face (one of the benefits of a mask is it makes it more of thought-out exercise to touch ones face, making it easier to avoid doing so). Once you get back to your own home, I suggest you remove your outside clothing, wash your hands thoroughly, and then put on an indoor-only robe or such outfit- unless you are like me and have no problem walking about your house in your undergarments. Sitting on an outside bench, for instance, provides a very mild risk if you don't touch it with your hands and then touch your face- a more substantial one if you do- and keep in mind that many of you probably use your hands to help yourself up when you stand.

I also suggest, especially for people in that last category, a cane or walking stick. I walk with a cane (I need one), and they provide many functions people don't think about. You can touch a handicap-access pad to open a door with the tip of a cane. You can push all kinds of buttons with the tip of a cane, actually. You push open a push-door with a cane. You can use the shaft of a cane to open many pull doors by inserting it into the pull handle and pulling on the upper part of the shaft. You can use it to help measure appropriate social distance- two cane-lengths is about six feet for the average person. You can use it to rest on instead of a public object that could be contaminated. And you can use it to help lever yourself up from a seat without touching anything else. 

If I were you, however, I would stop worrying about shared air-ducting. Air-conditioners blow air through the system creating positive air pressure, which means that it blows air into the rooms it serves, but that duct does NOT pull air out, so air from room A is not going to be delivered to room B from it. It could potentially move air between the rooms when the entire system is off, but that will be at such slow speeds and rates, you might as well be outside, and the travel distance between you and the next room via those air ducts is going to be quite a distance- 15-20 feet minimum. 

There is such a thing as an air-return duct, though not all systems use them, but those things utilize negative air pressure to pull air out of all room and take it to the cooling system- but those, when functioning, will be pulling air out only. They can pose air transfer between rooms when off, but again, the travel distance of the air from the mouth of person A, to the return duct, through the ducting, to the next rooms return duct, and then from that return duct to person B's mouth is going to be quite long. Think of how far you are from the duct, realize that on average the next person is going to be that far from the duct, and that the distance between ducts will also be large.

As for processing THROUGH an air-conditioning system, air conditioning cools air primarily through evaporative cooling- it removes moisture from the air- that's why the units drip. The air being moved out of an A/C unit is not going to be suitable for supporting a living virus. 

People either tend to disregard their safety entirely, or tend to be fearful of things they don't need to be fearful of. The virus is real and dangerous- but a lot of the things people fear are not part of the actual problem. It would be fairly accurate to say that if you aren't touching a contaminated surface, and you can not see a person, they are generally providing you no present danger. Breathed upon food is generally not particularly dangerous either, as the gastro-intestinal tract is probably the most hostile-to-virus parts of your body (bacteria is another matter), although it is better to avoid such if you can.


----------



## Barb Stout

Palmland said:


> My wife saw a pulmonologist yesterday for a follow up of respiratory infection this past winter. She said a mask mainly protects the other guy from your germs/virus, especially the larger moisture droplets. Very important if you've been sick or are asymptomatic for the virus. Does little to protect you from breathing in someone else's microns of any infection (without a N-95 mask).


You know, I have heard this a lot and accepted it without questioning it, but why would cloth masks protect others, but not protect you from other's respiratory droplets? Why would it work just one way? I'm thinking there is some protection afforded to the wearer of the cloth mask as well.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Barb Stout said:


> You know, I have heard this a lot and accepted it without questioning it, but why would cloth masks protect others, but not protect you from other's respiratory droplets? Why would it work just one way? I'm thinking there is some protection afforded to the wearer of the cloth mask as well.



Here's how it works, Barb. When you exhale, the droplets from your breath get caught in the mask, and become dried out and non-infective from your breath. You will not generally exhale with enough force to remove the droplets from the mask with enough velocity and size to provide viable infective moisture to somebody around you.

However, if they were to exhale in such a manner that saliva becomes embedded in your mask, and you were to breathe in, the distance between the moisture on the mask and your face, and the amount of suction, can quite easily pull the infected moisture into your mouth and nose, thus providing the potential for infecting you.

It would be inaccurate to say it provides NO protection. It does, indeed, provide some. But it does not provide enough protection, in reality, for that protection to change the behavior you should engage in were you not even wearing one. The best way for the unwashed masses to be instructed, for their own safety, is to be told it provides no protection at all- because that is the degree to which wearing one should change your behavior.


----------



## Barb Stout

Green Maned Lion said:


> Here's how it works, Barb. When you exhale, the droplets from your breath get caught in the mask, and become dried out and non-infective from your breath. You will not generally exhale with enough force to remove the droplets from the mask with enough velocity and size to provide viable infective moisture to somebody around you.
> 
> However, if they were to exhale in such a manner that saliva becomes embedded in your mask, and you were to breathe in, the distance between the moisture on the mask and your face, and the amount of suction, can quite easily pull the infected moisture into your mouth and nose, thus providing the potential for infecting you.
> 
> It would be inaccurate to say it provides NO protection. It does, indeed, provide some. But it does not provide enough protection, in reality, for that protection to change the behavior you should engage in were you not even wearing one. The best way for the unwashed masses to be instructed, for their own safety, is to be told it provides no protection at all- because that is the degree to which wearing one should change your behavior.


Thank you, Masked Man!


----------



## Bob Dylan

Lacunacoil said:


> I pulled up to my hotel on long island and canceled due to no individual air conditioning vents, I could see from outside it was shared air system. Right now shared air systems bother me mentally with coronavirus. I do shop daily but usually in out in 15 minutes. If I can get antibody test n find out I already had coronavirus I'd get on train tomorrow to los Angeles from nyc. Right now I'm scared.


But everyone that wants a Test can get one according to President Trump. He said that back in Early April!! Must be True!!!


----------



## Skyline

Green Maned Lion said:


> From what I can tell people tend to approach this in two formats- uninformed and overly cautious, or uninformed and overly reckless.
> 
> I would suggest making an effort to not touch surfaces with your hands or frontal areas of your body you tend to touch with your hands, and certainly avoid touching your face (one of the benefits of a mask is it makes it more of thought-out exercise to touch ones face, making it easier to avoid doing so). Once you get back to your own home, I suggest you remove your outside clothing, wash your hands thoroughly, and then put on an indoor-only robe or such outfit- unless you are like me and have no problem walking about your house in your undergarments. Sitting on an outside bench, for instance, provides a very mild risk if you don't touch it with your hands and then touch your face- a more substantial one if you do- and keep in mind that many of you probably use your hands to help yourself up when you stand.
> 
> I also suggest, especially for people in that last category, a cane or walking stick. I walk with a cane (I need one), and they provide many functions people don't think about. You can touch a handicap-access pad to open a door with the tip of a cane. You can push all kinds of buttons with the tip of a cane, actually. You push open a push-door with a cane. You can use the shaft of a cane to open many pull doors by inserting it into the pull handle and pulling on the upper part of the shaft. You can use it to help measure appropriate social distance- two cane-lengths is about six feet for the average person. You can use it to rest on instead of a public object that could be contaminated. And you can use it to help lever yourself up from a seat without touching anything else.
> 
> If I were you, however, I would stop worrying about shared air-ducting. Air-conditioners blow air through the system creating positive air pressure, which means that it blows air into the rooms it serves, but that duct does NOT pull air out, so air from room A is not going to be delivered to room B from it. It could potentially move air between the rooms when the entire system is off, but that will be at such slow speeds and rates, you might as well be outside, and the travel distance between you and the next room via those air ducts is going to be quite a distance- 15-20 feet minimum.
> 
> There is such a thing as an air-return duct, though not all systems use them, but those things utilize negative air pressure to pull air out of all room and take it to the cooling system- but those, when functioning, will be pulling air out only. They can pose air transfer between rooms when off, but again, the travel distance of the air from the mouth of person A, to the return duct, through the ducting, to the next rooms return duct, and then from that return duct to person B's mouth is going to be quite long. Think of how far you are from the duct, realize that on average the next person is going to be that far from the duct, and that the distance between ducts will also be large.
> 
> As for processing THROUGH an air-conditioning system, air conditioning cools air primarily through evaporative cooling- it removes moisture from the air- that's why the units drip. The air being moved out of an A/C unit is not going to be suitable for supporting a living virus.
> 
> People either tend to disregard their safety entirely, or tend to be fearful of things they don't need to be fearful of. The virus is real and dangerous- but a lot of the things people fear are not part of the actual problem. It would be fairly accurate to say that if you aren't touching a contaminated surface, and you can not see a person, they are generally providing you no present danger. Breathed upon food is generally not particularly dangerous either, as the gastro-intestinal tract is probably the most hostile-to-virus parts of your body (bacteria is another matter), although it is better to avoid such if you can.




How does this square with the phenomenon eventually known as Legionnaire's Disease? It was determined that it was caused by a new bacteria spread through the Bellevue Hotel's HVAC system in Philadelphia.









How a hotel convention became ground zero for this deadly bacteria


From July 21 to July 24, 1976, more than 2,000 members of the Pennsylvania chapters of the American Legion attended their annual state convention at a Philadelphia hotel. By Aug. 15, 182 Legionnaires who attended the convention were ill with serious forms of atypical pneumonia, and 29 had died.




www.pbs.org


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Barb Stout said:


> You know, I have heard this a lot and accepted it without questioning it, but why would cloth masks protect others, but not protect you from other's respiratory droplets? Why would it work just one way? I'm thinking there is some protection afforded to the wearer of the cloth mask as well.


I think it slows down the trajectory of our breaths so they're less likely to reach others??


----------



## jis

Skyline said:


> How does this square with the phenomenon eventually known as Legionnaire's Disease? It was determined that it was caused by a new bacteria spread through the Bellevue Hotel's HVAC system in Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How a hotel convention became ground zero for this deadly bacteria
> 
> 
> From July 21 to July 24, 1976, more than 2,000 members of the Pennsylvania chapters of the American Legion attended their annual state convention at a Philadelphia hotel. By Aug. 15, 182 Legionnaires who attended the convention were ill with serious forms of atypical pneumonia, and 29 had died.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org


One significant difference between bacteria and virus is that outside a host viruses just keep dying (becoming non viable, dying may be a wrong terms sinc they are never really alive in the first place) exponentially, until they are gone. Bacteria on the other hand don't necessarly die for just being outside a host, but under certain circumstances like poorly maintained air ducts of an HVAC system, they can even form colonies and grow in the moist cool environment and then launch themselves into the air stream.

I don't remember the specifics of the Legionnaire's Disease, but just thought I'd mention this fundamental difference between bacteria and viruses.

Another aside regarding virus found on surfaces, what has been found is segments of virus RNA which is what the typical PCR test can detect. Whether said RNA is from a viable virus that can actually infect someone, or is just floating around from a non viable virus is not something that is tested for typically. There are a few publications that have done so and typically vaiable viruses are not around for the days and weeks that some oether papers talk about. Afterall it is important to get the damn paper published as fast as one can instead of doing the much much heavier footwork needed to try to infect something with the stuff from the surface and see what happens.


----------



## MARC Rider

20th Century Rider said:


> A lot depends on the attendant... they range from amazing to offensively poor.


My experience is that most of them provide satisfactory service most of the time. I' don't even remember any who were really bad, like the example of the guy who sat in his room the whole trip. Of course, my needs are modest, mostly setting up my bed when I want in the evening and making up the room while I'm eating breakfast in the morning. Taking my luggage to the door at my destination is nice, but a lot of times, I'll do it myself rather than lose sight of my bag. Also, being available to deal with medical or quasi-medical emergencies would be helpful, as happened with a couple in the room across the hall from me on my last trip. The SCA was up hanging out in the dining car, but when I told her what was happening, she got right up and went to see these people, and then contacted the conductor. I'm curious, though, what kind of first aid training do Amtrak crew have?


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Skyline said:


> How does this square with the phenomenon eventually known as Legionnaire's Disease? It was determined that it was caused by a new bacteria spread through the Bellevue Hotel's HVAC system in Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How a hotel convention became ground zero for this deadly bacteria
> 
> 
> From July 21 to July 24, 1976, more than 2,000 members of the Pennsylvania chapters of the American Legion attended their annual state convention at a Philadelphia hotel. By Aug. 15, 182 Legionnaires who attended the convention were ill with serious forms of atypical pneumonia, and 29 had died.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org



Just to expand on Jishnu... it squares like a circle, because its an apple to an orange. A virus and a bacteria are totally different things. A virus needs a host in order to reproduce; a bacteria is not strictly a parasite- they can live in the human body, they can live outside the human body. Ductwork can be a hive for bacteria. They can reproduce within it. The virus can only reproduce within a cell that can be used to replicate it. 

The advice I am giving, utilizing my medical degree from the UBS (University of... well, you get the idea), is based around Covid-19. The ductwork of hotels being a hive for all kinds of potential nastiness (not just bacteria, but mold, fungus, insects, cockroaches, spiders, and so on) is true whether we are inside this pandemic or not. By the way, I tend to suspect, if you live in a house with the scourge known as a forced-air ventilation system, your ducting is just as bad, if not worse.


----------



## capltd29

Skyline said:


> How does this square with the phenomenon eventually known as Legionnaire's Disease? It was determined that it was caused by a new bacteria spread through the Bellevue Hotel's HVAC system in Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How a hotel convention became ground zero for this deadly bacteria
> 
> 
> From July 21 to July 24, 1976, more than 2,000 members of the Pennsylvania chapters of the American Legion attended their annual state convention at a Philadelphia hotel. By Aug. 15, 182 Legionnaires who attended the convention were ill with serious forms of atypical pneumonia, and 29 had died.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org



Legionella is a bit different in that it thrives in standing water and can multiply in an HVAC system, where viral particles by definition can only multiply in a host (a person). Each bacterial organism has different life cycle and how it can infect people. TB can be transmitted by respiratory droplets and by airborne transmission, for example, but most respiratory bacteria aren't easily transmitted from person to person (legionella). 



Green Maned Lion said:


> From what I can tell people tend to approach this in two formats- uninformed and overly cautious, or uninformed and overly reckless.
> 
> I would suggest making an effort to not touch surfaces with your hands or frontal areas of your body you tend to touch with your hands, and certainly avoid touching your face (one of the benefits of a mask is it makes it more of thought-out exercise to touch ones face, making it easier to avoid doing so). Once you get back to your own home, I suggest you remove your outside clothing, wash your hands thoroughly, and then put on an indoor-only robe or such outfit- unless you are like me and have no problem walking about your house in your undergarments. Sitting on an outside bench, for instance, provides a very mild risk if you don't touch it with your hands and then touch your face- a more substantial one if you do- and keep in mind that many of you probably use your hands to help yourself up when you stand.
> 
> I also suggest, especially for people in that last category, a cane or walking stick. I walk with a cane (I need one), and they provide many functions people don't think about. You can touch a handicap-access pad to open a door with the tip of a cane. You can push all kinds of buttons with the tip of a cane, actually. You push open a push-door with a cane. You can use the shaft of a cane to open many pull doors by inserting it into the pull handle and pulling on the upper part of the shaft. You can use it to help measure appropriate social distance- two cane-lengths is about six feet for the average person. You can use it to rest on instead of a public object that could be contaminated. And you can use it to help lever yourself up from a seat without touching anything else.
> 
> If I were you, however, I would stop worrying about shared air-ducting. Air-conditioners blow air through the system creating positive air pressure, which means that it blows air into the rooms it serves, but that duct does NOT pull air out, so air from room A is not going to be delivered to room B from it. It could potentially move air between the rooms when the entire system is off, but that will be at such slow speeds and rates, you might as well be outside, and the travel distance between you and the next room via those air ducts is going to be quite a distance- 15-20 feet minimum.
> 
> There is such a thing as an air-return duct, though not all systems use them, but those things utilize negative air pressure to pull air out of all room and take it to the cooling system- but those, when functioning, will be pulling air out only. They can pose air transfer between rooms when off, but again, the travel distance of the air from the mouth of person A, to the return duct, through the ducting, to the next rooms return duct, and then from that return duct to person B's mouth is going to be quite long. Think of how far you are from the duct, realize that on average the next person is going to be that far from the duct, and that the distance between ducts will also be large.
> 
> As for processing THROUGH an air-conditioning system, air conditioning cools air primarily through evaporative cooling- it removes moisture from the air- that's why the units drip. The air being moved out of an A/C unit is not going to be suitable for supporting a living virus.
> 
> People either tend to disregard their safety entirely, or tend to be fearful of things they don't need to be fearful of. The virus is real and dangerous- but a lot of the things people fear are not part of the actual problem. It would be fairly accurate to say that if you aren't touching a contaminated surface, and you can not see a person, they are generally providing you no present danger. Breathed upon food is generally not particularly dangerous either, as the gastro-intestinal tract is probably the most hostile-to-virus parts of your body (bacteria is another matter), although it is better to avoid such if you can.



I agree with the classification of different people and their level of knowledge and concern. I try to be reasonable. I don't change my clothes after going out into the community but I do clean my hands. When I leave work, I try to change into street clothes before leaving the hospital. If I don't do that, I take my clothes off in the garage and place them directly into the laundry and take a shower. I am sure its possible for it to be transmitted through a ventilation system, but it has to be near the bottom of transmission risk, especially when you consider the low passenger counts on the train and presuming people who are sick and coughing frequently aren't traveling on the train. I've had a few close contacts with people with COVID at work, without any typical respiratory symptoms, but I tested them later in their course for hospital admission (so I didn't have full PPE on initially), and I haven't (to my knowledge) acquired it.


----------



## noflyzone

HenryK said:


> Damn, I had to look up "phonation."


I just called my daughter on the phone and sang Happy Birthday to her. Is that an example of phonation? And under such circumstances, would I then be considered a 'phony' although I try to be sincere? All this is getting very confusing for me.


----------



## Chatter163

anumberone said:


> I'm wondering, I saw a TV clip of V P. Pence in a crowded restaurant, no masks worn by anyone and he serving himself a drink from a public soda dispenser. I myself don't approve, anyone have a understanding of this behavior.


Ok, so you don’t approve. So what else? Let’s return to discussing Amtrak, shall we?


----------



## me_little_me

noflyzone said:


> I just called my daughter on the phone and sang Happy Birthday to her. Is that an example of phonation? And under such circumstances, would I then be considered a 'phony' although I try to be sincere? All this is getting very confusing for me.


No. Phonation started when non-traditional phone service suppliers (e.g. MagicJack, Comcast, Ooma) started offering unlimited calls throughout the country for a fixed price and everyone started calling everyone wherever they lived that they never called before just so they could take advantage of the free calls and thumb their noses at AT&T, Verizon, etc and their overpriced services. Phonation became really popular in the era of cell phones when everyone went to unlimited calling as people could not only call everyone in the country that they barely knew but could do it no matter where they were and even if the "callee" was sitting next to them.

Hey, it's as good as any other explanation!


----------



## gwolfdog

Barb Stout said:


> You know, I have heard this a lot and accepted it without questioning it, but why would cloth masks protect others, but not protect you from other's respiratory droplets? Why would it work just one way? I'm thinking there is some protection afforded to the wearer of the cloth mask as well.


Wearing a mask is like when we wore Flak Jackets on certain patrols in Vietnam. We knew that it was minimal protection but it could also save our lives. Even if it's only the Placebo affect, some research debunks its value and etc. etc. I'm wearing mine. I can't control your behavior or values. JMHO


----------



## Asher

Green Maned Lion said:


> You can push all kinds of buttons with the tip of a cane


Thanks a lot, probably one I use my thumb on.  LOL


----------



## Ferroequinologist

jis said:


> One significant difference between bacteria and virus is that outside a host viruses just keep dying (becoming non viable, dying may be a wrong terms sinc they are never really alive in the first place) exponentially, until they are gone. Bacteria on the other hand don't necessarly die for just being outside a host, but under certain circumstances like poorly maintained air ducts of an HVAC system, they can even form colonies and grow in the moist cool environment and then launch themselves into the air stream.
> 
> I don't remember the specifics of the Legionnaire's Disease, but just thought I'd mention this fundamental difference between bacteria and viruses.
> 
> Another aside regarding virus found on surfaces, what has been found is segments of virus RNA which is what the typical PCR test can detect. Whether said RNA is from a viable virus that can actually infect someone, or is just floating around from a non viable virus is not something that is tested for typically. There are a few publications that have done so and typically vaiable viruses are not around for the days and weeks that some oether papers talk about. Afterall it is important to get the damn paper published as fast as one can instead of doing the much much heavier footwork needed to try to infect something with the stuff from the surface and see what happens.



At the time it was the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel.


----------



## Ferroequinologist

20th Century Rider said:


> A lot depends on the attendant... they range from amazing to offensively poor. I had an attendant on the Coast Starlight who sat in his room playing video games... refusing to bring dinner to my room. And the car was almost completely empty. Then I've had attendants who put out their own candy and magazines at the coffee area and came by frequently to see if they could get me anything. Of course, the last one was generously tipped... the lazy one? A complaint made to customer service. I don't wish bad on anyone but for price paid one should expect reasonable service. And NOW cleaning and sanitizing will be a big issue.


Amtrak has little control over their employees. The airlines will take sanitizing seriously but I don't think Amtrak will, especially when cleaning has to be done en route. Take Lysol or alcohol and some paper towels with you. My biggest concern is shared bathrooms. Not including in-room toilets in Superliner roomettes and the new Viewliners was a mistake.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Ferroequinologist said:


> Amtrak has little control over their employees. The airlines will take sanitizing seriously but I don't think Amtrak will, especially when cleaning has to be done en route. Take Lysol or alcohol and some paper towels with you. My biggest concern is shared bathrooms. Not including in-room toilets in Superliner roomettes and the new Viewliners was a mistake.


In absolute agreement with everything you said. Some Amtrak attendants are good and care, but many are lazy as I found out so many times... and well before the pandemic I was concerned about sanitation on Amtrak... this is an area where Amtrak falls short; seats are dirty with lots of filth under the cushions; and shared bathrooms are many times disgusting. Don't want to sound overly negative but inconsistencies with customer service dedication and lack of motivation of employees has always been a concern. Amtrak management... take note!


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Your picture is either proof of what you say, or simply that a jerk used the bathroom before you. Or possibly that you threw a roll of toilet paper on the floor out of frustration at the lack of sanitary conditions.

actually aside from that tp the room looks pretty clean


----------



## Michigan Mom

I used to travel with a full canister of Lysol wipes BEFORE the pandemic. I will need to be able to buy one before being able to travel on Amtrak again  My local grocery stores apparently sell out as soon as a shipment comes in. Using a shared restroom on Amtrak involves a cleaning routine I'm not crazy about, but the peace of mind is worth it.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Green Maned Lion said:


> Your picture is either proof of what you say, or simply that a jerk used the bathroom before you. Or possibly that you threw a roll of toilet paper on the floor out of frustration at the lack of sanitary conditions.
> 
> actually aside from that tp the room looks pretty clean


So here's the backstory to the photo...if you search google images for 'Amtrak dirty restrooms' its the first photo that comes up... albeit there are a lot of photos! This actual photo was posted by 'Points with a crew.' A mom is the blogger who shares the family's travel adventures... see below and check it out. We need to all stay safe by following guidelines listed by the CDC. If you must travel bring plenty of wipes... or at least a small spray bottle with a solution of 20% bleach and 80% water. BTW... this is my 100th post on this forum and want to thank everyone for the opportunity to be a part of it!  









dirty-bathroom - Points with a Crew







www.pointswithacrew.com


----------



## Bob Dylan

Michigan Mom said:


> I used to travel with a full canister of Lysol wipes BEFORE the pandemic. I will need to be able to buy one before being able to travel on Amtrak again  My local grocery stores apparently sell out as soon as a shipment comes in. Using a shared restroom on Amtrak involves a cleaning routine I'm not crazy about, but the peace of mind is worth it.


Tip: Look in the "Baby Section" of the Store. Plenty of Wipes in our Stores here in Austin! 
Just no Lysol or Clorox ones!


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Bob Dylan said:


> Tip: Look in the "Baby Section" of the Store. Plenty of Wipes in our Stores here in Austin!
> Just no Lysol or Clorox ones!


I hear that Austin's a great town with awesome food trucks. Are they up and running this weekend? I hear they got great Tex Mex and salsa music bands while you picnic?!?!


----------



## Bob Dylan

20th Century Rider said:


> I hear that Austin's a great town with awesome food trucks. Are they up and running this weekend? I hear they got great Tex Mex and salsa music bands while you picnic?!?!


Yep, the Food Trucks are Open, most stayed Open for Pick-up/To Go Only during the Stay @ Home Orders, but now that Texas is "Opening Up" and Eating Places are allowed 50% Occupancy Inside and No Limits on Patios and Outside Seating, most of them have opened up their outside tables.

There are Taco Trucks everywhere ( the Best ones are on the East and South Sides), and almost every kind of food you'd want, and even without live Music,most play Music @ their Trucks for the Diners and the Staff!

My favorites, besides the Taco Joints are the BBQ Ones,Hot Dogs and a Vietnamese one on E. 7th.Id guess there are probably over 1,000 Food Trucks operating now.

Austin had over 4,000 Eating Joints (and Live Music Everywhere) , but with the dearth of Tourists, Cancellation of Live Music and a 30% Unemployment Rate, they say half of the Eating and Music Clubs will Fail/Not Reopen.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Also amazed at your number of posts... third highest of everyone! Congrats!


----------



## Bob Dylan

20th Century Rider said:


> Also amazed at your number of posts... third highest of everyone! Congrats!


Thanks,its cause I don't have a Life!


----------



## gwolfdog

I empathize with you. My age and health conditions eliminate the Adult Sites and I can't hear my wife behind me, anymore!


----------



## 20th Century Rider

It may take some time to catch up... Zoom meetings are constantly popping up.


----------



## suzgor

Bob Dylan said:


> Tip: Look in the "Baby Section" of the Store. Plenty of Wipes in our Stores here in Austin!
> Just no Lysol or Clorox ones!


Baby wipes don't disinfect, they just wipe. If you have a bottle of disinfectant alcohol, take that and some paper towels.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Cheaper and equally effective for disinfecting is paper towels and a bottle of the cheapest 80 proof vodka you can find. It is barely more drinkable than rubbing alcohol, but the fumes are less toxic for you to breathe and it won’t kill someone if they accidentally drink it.

The denaturing compounds in rubbing alcohol are (intentionally) highly toxic, and you really don’t want to be involved with them.


----------



## niemi24s

Green Maned Lion said:


> The denaturing compounds in rubbing alcohol are (intentionally) highly toxic, and you really don’t want to be involved with them.


You may be confusing these two common alcohols:
• Rubbing alcohol is already denatured (meaning unfit for human consumption) as it is isopropyl alcolol and the almost unavoidable amount of water as all alcohols are hygroscopic. It, like any alcohol, is a disinfectant.
• Denaturing substances make ethyl alcohol (the drinkable booze kind) unfit for consumption and are intended to be toxic so as to avoid the steep tax on drinkable (ethyl) alcohol. Some common substances used to denature ethyl alcohol are methyl alcohol and various ketones. Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent for flake shellac and to clean shellac brushes.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Both are highly toxic, however.


----------



## 20th Century Rider

Booz in the west is really pricey... You can find it you can find clorax bleach at the dollar store but it's been hard to find recently. No no no... don't drink it!


----------



## BLNT

Bob Dylan said:


> But everyone that wants a Test can get one according to President Trump. He said that back in Early April!! Must be True!!!



He gets tested daily, so from his perspective (being the center and sole occupant of the universe) - he's correct.


----------



## caravanman

Most Amtrak customers will have a nasty restroom story to tell, so cleaning is not as good as it should or could be. I have often observed quite young children using the restrooms, often with a young playmate, I think they might sometimes be responsible for the items dropped on the floor?


----------



## Bob Dylan

caravanman said:


> Most Amtrak customers will have a nasty restroom story to tell, so cleaning is not as good as it should or could be. I have often observed quite young children using the restrooms, often with a young playmate, I think they might sometimes be responsible for the items dropped on the floor?


Partly true Eddie, but sadly lots of so called Adults in the Colonies are Pigs when it comes to using Public Facilities!( the old " Its not my Job!" excuse!)


----------



## neroden

To destroy coronavirus reliably, alcohol has to be at least 60% alcohol (120 proof), unfortunately for the vodka idea.

Soap is *extremely* good at destroying coronavirus, so soap is the top recommendation.


----------



## BLNT

Bob Dylan said:


> Partly true Eddie, but sadly lots of so called Adults in the Colonies are Pigs when it comes to using Public Facilities!( the old " Its not my Job!" excuse!)



At least to hear my wife talk about it, women's (public) restrooms are even worse -- with nobody wanting to undertake cleaning duties, so some will hover over the seat.... that's all the detail I needed to hear.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

caravanman said:


> Most Amtrak customers will have a nasty restroom story to tell, so cleaning is not as good as it should or could be. I have often observed quite young children using the restrooms, often with a young playmate, I think they might sometimes be responsible for the items dropped on the floor?



I know you’re from Blighty, so let me tell you something; I use American public restrooms on a regular basis. Amtrak’s are not an example of particularly bad ones. I have seen much much much worse elsewhere, believe me.


----------



## Michigan Mom

niemi24s said:


> You may be confusing these two common alcohols:
> • Rubbing alcohol is already denatured (meaning unfit for human consumption) as it is isopropyl alcolol and the almost unavoidable amount of water as all alcohols are hygroscopic. It, like any alcohol, is a disinfectant.
> • Denaturing substances make ethyl alcohol (the drinkable booze kind) unfit for consumption and are intended to be toxic so as to avoid the steep tax on drinkable (ethyl) alcohol. Some common substances used to denature ethyl alcohol are methyl alcohol and various ketones. Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent for flake shellac and to clean shellac brushes.



Here's something interesting I read (and don't understand). Background, I was at the store yesterday and they HAD RUBBING ALCOHOL back on the shelves! (Talk about not having a life, to be thrilled over that?) Well a few anyway. A sign was posted that said limit 2 per customer so I picked up 2. These are 70%, previously I would always get the 90% figuring that was better for killing viruses and bacteria. The interesting thing is that the 70% actually has a more effective kill rate, for reasons I again don't understand - something to do with a certain amount of water being required for the alcohol to destroy the virus particle coating. So if you have the 90% solution around you need to dilute with water for optimal disinfection, I guess?


----------



## pennyk

Back to Amtrak-related discussion: I just saw the Silver Meteor 98 travel through Orlando with a different consist than what I saw a few weeks ago. One engine, 4 coaches, cafe car, 2 sleepers, baggage. No sleeper lounge.


----------



## Palmland

Just saw this on Trains’ newswire:

*********
“WASHINGTON — In a Memorial Day letter to Congress, Amtrak management has asked for $1.475 billion in “supplemental funding” it says is necessary to operate at “minimum service levels across the rail network” and continue capital projects. 

Even with this funding — which is addition to $2.04 billion in its budget request for fiscal 2021, submitted before the COVID-19 pandemic decimated ridership and revenue — it says most long-distance routes will be reduced to less than daily service.........”


----------



## lordsigma

appendix 1 Of said letter seems to indicate the auto train could remain the only daily long distance service in 2021. Notably the only route in the entire Amtrak network listed as “no change.” And listed as “minimal change” with no bailout.


----------



## NativeSon5859

What does everyone think? All the daily LD’s go to 4-5X weekly and the Cardinal/Sunset go 2X weekly?


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Welcome to the new post coronavirus world


----------



## MikefromCrete

It's just a move that shows Amtrak is serious about needing this money. Congress will appropriate something, maybe the full amount, maybe less. Amtrak will take the money and there will be no more talk of service reductions.


----------



## 41bridge

NativeSon5859 said:


> What does everyone think? All the daily LD’s go to 4-5X weekly and the Cardinal/Sunset go 2X weekly?


Nope. Based on history 3 days a week.


----------



## chrsjrcj

Even with the additional funding, the letter from Amtrak indicates service reductions. This seems really bad.



https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Amtrak-Supplemental-FY21-Funding-Letter-to-Congress-Final-Signed-5.25.20.pdf


----------



## MccfamschoolMom

Green Maned Lion said:


> I know you’re from Blighty, so let me tell you something; I use American public restrooms on a regular basis. Amtrak’s are not an example of particularly bad ones. I have seen much much much worse elsewhere, believe me.


The worst toilet I've ever seen in recent years was a pit toilet in a state park in Rock Island, IL last summer - hot, nasty-smelling, and too many mosquitoes around. (And obviously not cleaned daily, either -- but I had just finished driving across the state, and I couldn't wait to get to a nicer public restroom!)


----------



## dlagrua

CEO William Flynn siting a 95% drop in ridership, has announced yesterday that Amtrak is preparing to lay off 20% of its staff in its next fiscal year. This is a result of what happens when we have a congress that insists that Amtrak make a profit. Notice that government workers in other agencies are unaffected. One can only feel for the Amtrak workers who need to support their familes and are struggling just to earn a middle class wage. This is terrible. 
Amtrak Cutting Work Force 20%


----------



## tricia

My initial reaction was that they're not letting a good crisis go to waste--that this is an opportunity to push for previously set goals of reducing public services and squeezing labor. Certainly there are Republicans in Congress who'll want to use it that way.

However, the letter states "As demand returns to pre-COVID levels, we would expect to restore frequencies for both our Long Distance and NEC service, subject to adequate funding."

Also note that less than 1/3 of the $500 million cost reductions proposed in the letter is to come from "reduced frequencies and capacity." More than 2/3 is to come from "adjustments to our work force."


----------



## tricia

This workforce cut is consistent with what's in Flynn's letter to Congress, posted and being discussed in this thread.

The article dlagrua cites is behind a paywall. I've not read the whole thing; there might be additional info there.


----------



## Rasputin

Bring your own food, drinks and bedding. The train will depart once it fills up to its desired capacity.


----------



## the_traveler

tricia said:


> Also note that less than 1/3 of the $500 million cost reductions proposed in the letter is to come from "reduced frequencies and capacity." More than 2/3 is to come from "adjustments to our work force."


So that means that trains will have 1 engineer and 1 conductor. Find your own seat and/or room. If you have a room, you must make your own bed!


----------



## capltd29

Michigan Mom said:


> Here's something interesting I read (and don't understand). Background, I was at the store yesterday and they HAD RUBBING ALCOHOL back on the shelves! (Talk about not having a life, to be thrilled over that?) Well a few anyway. A sign was posted that said limit 2 per customer so I picked up 2. These are 70%, previously I would always get the 90% figuring that was better for killing viruses and bacteria. The interesting thing is that the 70% actually has a more effective kill rate, for reasons I again don't understand - something to do with a certain amount of water being required for the alcohol to destroy the virus particle coating. So if you have the 90% solution around you need to dilute with water for optimal disinfection, I guess?



I am not completely sure, but for bacteria, I recall from my college microbiology lab that we would not want to use the 95% alcohol solution on the basis that bacteria would do something to close their cell wall so it didn't penetrate as well as a lower concentration. Not sure how that would affect viruses, since they do not have a cell wall...or a cell for that matter lol


----------



## Amtrakfflyer

I found this chart interesting and seems to indicate what a lot of us think is the real story. The long distance trains don’t cost as much to operate as previous management led us to believe. Look at Flynn’s breakdown of Amtraks “bailout”. Out of 1.4 billion, 151 million is slated to “maintain“ the national network “long distance” trains. Am I reading this wrong?


----------



## PVD

The recommended dilutions for sanitizing are a bit different for Isopropyl and Ethyl alcohols. The very high concentrations are more often used for processes where the water content presents an issue (corrosion or reside as an example) Check out a reputable source and follow the standards....


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I found this chart interesting and seems to indicate what a lot of us think is the real story. The long distance trains don’t cost as much to operate as previous management led us to believe. Look at Flynn’s breakdown of Amtraks “bailout”.


Might those be the projections for after the cutbacks in service?


----------



## Green Maned Lion

I tend to suspect that with the financial bind this mess is putting the country into, you will find that this kind of belt-tightening will not be limited to Amtrak for long.


----------



## Trogdor

Amtrakfflyer said:


> I found this chart interesting and seems to indicate what a lot of us think is the real story. The long distance trains don’t cost as much to operate as previous management led us to believe. Look at Flynn’s breakdown of Amtraks “bailout”. Out of 1.4 billion, 151 million is slated to “maintain“ the national network “long distance” trains. Am I reading this wrong?



I take that is being the projected revenue loss related to COVID from lower ridership and not really having anything to do with how much the network costs to operate.

Remember, this is the supplemental request _on top of_ the normal request they submitted for next year. So the regular costs/losses would have been covered by that request. But with COVID, they have now lost half of their revenue/ridership, which could be $1.5 billion-ish, including a loss of $737 million in NEC ticket revenue, $100 million in state corridor ticket revenue (plus $260 million in money states won't be able to pay to maintain service), $151 million in LD revenue lost, and $229 million in commuter revenue lost (again, likely because the agencies won't be able to pay).

In fact, actual revenue loss is probably greater, but will also be somewhat offset by reduced service.


----------



## Bob Dylan

NativeSon5859 said:


> What does everyone think? All the daily LD’s go to 4-5X weekly and the Cardinal/Sunset go 2X weekly?


Sounds like the start of the Slippery Slope that we saw in the 60s by the Class Is and during the Carter and Clinton "cuts".( Amtrak)

Say Goodnight Gracie!


----------



## Bob Dylan

MikefromCrete said:


> It's just a move that shows Amtrak is serious about needing this money. Congress will appropriate something, maybe the full amount, maybe less. Amtrak will take the money and there will be no more talk of service reductions.


Dont bet your house on this Mike! 

Once the cuts start ( 2/3 are to Labor), they'll be like topsy, just going on and on as funding dries up as the Congress starts cutting everything except their Own and the Defense and Intellegence Budgets.


----------



## Thirdrail7

As you can tell, they've alternated between operating 91/92 and 98/97. This will continue until the trackwork is finished. As such, they have the same consist.


----------



## Palmland

chrsjrcj said:


> Even with the additional funding, the letter from Amtrak indicates service reductions. This seems really bad.
> 
> 
> 
> https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Amtrak-Supplemental-FY21-Funding-Letter-to-Congress-Final-Signed-5.25.20.pdf




Thanks for that link, it really spells it out. It's pretty clear. Starting this fall with FY21 LD trains, except for the Auto Train, may well go away. With the supplemental funding they remain but on a reduced basis (less than daily) and the Silver service trains are consolidated in some fashion. Pretty grim. Again, a vaccine will protect people - and the economy.


----------



## pennyk

MODERATOR NOTE: threads regarding Amtrak service/staff reductions were merged into this thread which pertains to Amtrak related discussions concerning COVID-19. Thank you for keeping discussions more or less on topic.
Be safe, be well and be kind.


----------



## Ziv

Getting the antibody test is fairly straightforward now. I got the it two weeks ago. I told my doctor I cared for three elderly people fairly frequently and I had the prescription immediately even though I am in my 50's and healthy. 
They are doing almost 400,000 tests a day now, including both active culture tests and antibody tests. 



BLNT said:


> He gets tested daily, so from his perspective (being the center and sole occupant of the universe) - he's correct.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Ziv said:


> Getting the antibody test is fairly straightforward now. I got the it two weeks ago. I told my doctor I cared for three elderly people fairly frequently and I had the prescription immediately even though I am in my 50's and healthy.
> They are doing almost 400,000 tests a day now, including both active culture tests and antibody tests.


But how reliable is the antibody test? I've heard that it's not all that reliable, yet.


----------



## Ziv

I believe they are talking about the new test as being around 93% accurate. Not that great but better than it was. I believe the problem is false positives but I am not certain of that. I have read so much about this bug it is all getting mixed up. 
But the one takeaway I have seen is that the 3 day rolling average of Covid deaths in the US is down from 3708 on April 18th to a 3 day rolling average of 646 today. According to Worldometer. 


AmtrakBlue said:


> But how reliable is the antibody test? I've heard that it's not all that reliable, yet.


----------



## PVD

NY State was reported today (yesterday's number) around 75 48 hospital balance Nursing home...Net hospitalizations down, intubations down all very good. All regions moved to phase one except the city which is probably a week or so away. The first group of contact tracers (1700) in NYC start work on June 1, with 800 more shortly after. They are training now.


----------



## Bob Dylan

AmtrakBlue said:


> But how reliable is the antibody test? I've heard that it's not all that reliable, yet.


The most used one has a 50% False Positive/ Negative Rate. Not good enough to rely on!


----------



## Ziv

Labcorp is using mostly Abbott tests now and they are supposed to be over 93% accurate, for what that claim is worth. They earlier claimed they were "nearly 100% accurate" but that is doubtful. The new Roche test is supposed to be more accurate than the original tests, as well. 


Bob Dylan said:


> The most used one has a 50% False Positive/ Negative Rate. Not good enough to rely on!


----------



## caravanman

"But the one takeaway I have seen is that the 3 day rolling average of Covid deaths in the US is down from 3708 on April 18th to a 3 day rolling average of 646 today. According to Worldometer. "​
Worldometer is just one man and his dog?


----------



## PVD

If you take the NYS results out of the national graphs, the resulting curves don't look anywhere as good.... keep in mind that today's hospitalizations contribute to next month's fatalities. The lag is very visible....


----------



## PVD

I just glanced at the NY Forward Regional Dashboard (yesterday's numbers) Pretty good progress in all areas. NYC is there with the exception of the 30% availability of hospital beds (28%) When it looked like we were going to go over the falls, we brought in thousands of temporary beds, including 1000 on the US Navy hospital ship. Thankfully the temporary facilities went mostly unused. If those beds were still here, we would meet all the metrics. An additional requirement that has been imposed is the requirement that 90 days of PPE supplies be stocked so that the madness that occurred this spring is not repeated,,,, I usually listen to the Mayor DiBlasio report around 9:30 and The Governor is usually around 11:30-12:00 depending on where he is in NY. Yesterday he went 1:00PM from Washington, he had a meeting with the President in the morning.


----------



## MARC Rider

Ziv said:


> I believe they are talking about the new test as being around 93% accurate. Not that great but better than it was. I believe the problem is false positives but I am not certain of that. I have read so much about this bug it is all getting mixed up.



The problem with false positives is baked into the test situation. This is known as the false positive paradox. Because the rate of infection in the overall population is low, most of the the positive results are going to come back on people who haven't been infected, even it the test is 93% accurate.

Imagine: 100,000 people are tested, maybe 5% of population has been infected, so 95,000 people aren't infected. 5,000 people are. A 93% accurate rate means that 7% are false positives. Seven percent of 95,000 is 6,650 false positives. Thus, even if all of the 5,000 infected people are correctly identified by the test, there are an additional 6,650 people who haven't been infected, but think they have been. 

This, of course, only considers the accuracy of the test with regard to false positives. There's also the issue of false negatives to consider, which further messes up the value of these tests on populations where what you're looking for is rare. These tests are great for sub-populations where the rate of infection is higher, but for the general population, not so much. By the way, this applies to HIV and TB testing as well, not to mention having implications in industrial quality control.


----------



## joelkfla

Ziv said:


> I believe they are talking about the new test as being around 93% accurate. Not that great but better than it was. I believe the problem is false positives but I am not certain of that. I have read so much about this bug it is all getting mixed up.
> But the one takeaway I have seen is that the 3 day rolling average of Covid deaths in the US is down from 3708 on April 18th to a 3 day rolling average of 646 today. According to Worldometer.


For antibody testing, false positives are the worst fault. They lull people into believing they have immunity, when they actually don't.


----------



## PVD

There is no definitive proof that presence of antibodies affords immunity. It is a reasonable hypothesis, as it often does, but is not proven yet.


----------



## jis

Just FYI regarding SARS-COV-2 tests and testing....









Mayo Clinic doctors find many COVID-19 antibody tests fail their quality standards: ABC News exclusive


A number of commercially available COVID-19 antibody tests did not pass Mayo Clinic quality screening or meet their expectations for use, researchers said.




abcnews.go.com













EUA Authorized Serology Test Performance


EUA Authorized Serology Test Performance




www.fda.gov













FAQs on Testing for SARS-CoV-2


Answers to FAQs relating to the development and performance of tests for SARS-CoV-2.




www.fda.gov


----------



## Green Maned Lion

PVD said:


> There is no definitive proof that presence of antibodies affords immunity. It is a reasonable hypothesis, as it often does, but is not proven yet.



Another logical assumption, also unproven, is that if the thing has attacked you previously, and it has not landed you in the hospital, it is likely that getting infected again will likely not land you in the hospital.


----------



## west point

Leets see. Cut trains in half so you would only need T & E crew at most 2/3rd of present amounts. So that does not reduce operating costs by half. Then Amtrak will be able to rehire what ? Maybe a 1/3rd of laid offs. Now you have to train new hires . Then retrain those who got bumped onto routes not qualified.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Green Maned Lion said:


> Your picture is either proof of what you say, or simply that a jerk used the bathroom before you. Or possibly that you threw a roll of toilet paper on the floor out of frustration at the lack of sanitary conditions. actually aside from that tp the room looks pretty clean


Jerks use bathrooms on airplanes yet they still get cleaned periodically. What's Amtrak's excuse?



Green Maned Lion said:


> I know you’re from Blighty, so let me tell you something; I use American public restrooms on a regular basis. Amtrak’s are not an example of particularly bad ones. I have seen much much much worse elsewhere, believe me.


I believe you. I just don't see how this is a compelling argument. A disgusting fast food bathroom doesn't cost me hundreds of dollars in rail fare to use.


----------



## neroden

Unfortunately antibody tests need much higher specificity (upwards of 99%) before they're useful for declaring people immune.

We're actually pretty sure that antibodies confer immunity, but based on experience with other coronaviruses, it's strongly suspected it's only *temporary* immunity. When we get a vaccine we may all have to be vaccinated every six months. :-(


----------



## neroden

Write your Congresscritters. Less-than-daily service is just stupidity -- it always costs more than daily service because of the revenue losses. Some idiot at Amtrak is feeding this idea to Flynn (my guess is Stephen Gardner) and Congress has to be told it's stupidity.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see every train reduced to one locomotive, one coach, and one sleeper, and I wouldn't even object if that was the demand level.


----------



## MARC Rider

Devil's Advocate said:


> Jerks use bathrooms on airplanes yet they still get cleaned periodically. What's Amtrak's excuse?


Amtrak bathrooms get cleaned very well at the terminus, just like on airplanes. The problem is getting them cleaned during the long journey to the next terminus.


----------



## Ferroequinologist

dlagrua said:


> CEO William Flynn siting a 95% drop in ridership, has announced yesterday that Amtrak is preparing to lay off 20% of its staff in its next fiscal year. This is a result of what happens when we have a congress that insists that Amtrak make a profit. Notice that government workers in other agencies are unaffected. One can only feel for the Amtrak workers who need to support their familes and are struggling just to earn a middle class wage. This is terrible.
> Amtrak Cutting Work Force 20%



So why don't they drop prices if ridership is down 95%? The airlines have done that. It still costs around $1,000 one way New York to California in a roomette. And this is during a Depression -- not a little recession !


----------



## Devil's Advocate

MARC Rider said:


> Amtrak bathrooms get cleaned very well at the terminus, just like on airplanes. The problem is getting them cleaned during the long journey to the next terminus.


Aircraft lavatories on long haul flights are cleaned in-flight. Even domestic and regional flights get a periodic wipe down during the next turn cycle. Amtrak's own rules say their staff should be keeping restrooms clean throughout the journey, but in the case of coach class many staff simply choose not to do so. These are often the same staff who _do_ clean the restrooms in sleeper class. This is a solvable problem that doesn't need approval from Congress or Union Pacific but _does_ need a board that cares enough to make it happen and make it stick.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Disney restrooms are kept extremely clean despite the insane crowds at the parks. They are cleaned by employees getting paid half of what Amtrak attendants get paid. It can be done if there is a desire.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Disney basically uses slave labor and the truck system, not sure that's a model to covet.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Green Maned Lion said:


> Disney basically uses slave labor and the truck system, not sure that's a model to covet.


Why did you stop there? Which large scale American company is providing wages and benefits to front line consumer facing employees that puts Disney's "slave labor" system to shame? Let's hear it GML.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

I didn't say it stopped at Disney, although they are a particularly bad example. I have never been one to stand on a platform of attempting to indicate equality, equitability, or even vaguely reasonable labor practices in this country; I may be crazy, but I'm not THAT far gone.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Green Maned Lion said:


> Disney basically uses slave labor and the truck system, not sure that's a model to covet.



Well first of all. Not true. A good friend of mine was a custodian at Disney world when he was in college. He enjoyed it, obviously complained about the typical big corporate stuff, but he thought it was a great college job. 

Second of all. What’s your solution for Amtrak? My point was that Disney has crazy large crowds and low paid employees and manages to keep restrooms clean. Amtrak has low crowds and highly paid employees. Seems there should be a solution besides the employees scolding the customers and threatening to lock the restrooms.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

crescent-zephyr said:


> Well first of all. Not true. A good friend of mine was a custodian at Disney world when he was in college. He enjoyed it, obviously complained about the typical big corporate stuff, but he thought it was a great college job.



Glad he enjoyed it. My wife and I have known dozens of people who worked for Disney during their college tenures. Their stories indicate that your friend was the exception, not the rule.



crescent-zephyr said:


> Second of all. What’s your solution for Amtrak? My point was that Disney has crazy large crowds and low paid employees and manages to keep restrooms clean. Amtrak has low crowds and highly paid employees. Seems there should be a solution besides the employees scolding the customers and threatening to lock the restrooms.



You want a solution now? Oy gevaldt, all I am doin' is kvetcshn about problems, and a solution you now want? De noive.

Seriously, though...

First of all, the pay grades of the employees are something of a moot point; Disney, like most theme parks, hires a variety of people to specifically do a variety of jobs, one of which is simply to clean restrooms. When I worked for a contractor at Six Flags, I knew one of the guys who cleaned rest rooms- his job was not only specific to cleaning restrooms, but, in fact, a specific pair of mens restrooms he alternated between- that's all he did. Trust me when I say that compared to Six Flags- Great Adventure, Disney is like a charitable organization; I'm sure they had similar practices in place. In any case, the guy whose sole responsibility being to clean those two rest rooms, his performance in that area being inadequate would result in immediate termination.

Amtrak, on the other hand, has TA-S and TA-Cs who deal with one or several cars, and have a variety of responsibilities, first and foremost being passenger safety. I don't have to list the variety of other responsibilities they have, but the main point being that cleaning the rest rooms is not the biggest one. They should, don't get me wrong. But my guy at Six Flags? The rest rooms not clean, he is simply not doing his job. On Amtrak? "I was assisting a passenger, getting a disabled passenger food from the dining car, cleaning a roomette, doing up somebodies room for the night, dealing with some kind of safety problem, ad infinitum, and I didn't have time to clean the restrooms." Prove them wrong.

I'm not justifying the behavior, I'm explaining the substantially greater difficulty in dealing with it, and that's assuming you have motivated managers. With all due respect to the motivated managers at Amtrak, and those three people know who they are, you don't really have that. You just have government hacks. Attacking that problem first is the beginning of a solution, and that problem is effectively insurmountable.


----------



## caravanman

I was hoping the Disney mention would lead to someone suggesting the Amtrak restroom cleaners dress up in Mickey Mouse outfits? If it works at Disney, maybe worth a try?


----------



## crescent-zephyr

caravanman said:


> I was hoping the Disney mention would lead to someone suggesting the Amtrak restroom cleaners dress up in Mickey Mouse outfits? If it works at Disney, maybe worth a try?



Actually... Disney custodial wear all white uniforms to represent the cleanliness of the parks.


----------



## JoeBas

Green Maned Lion said:


> Another logical assumption, also unproven, is that if the thing has attacked you previously, and it has not landed you in the hospital, it is likely that getting infected again will likely not land you in the hospital.



Dengue Fever would like to disagree.


----------



## MARC Rider

Green Maned Lion said:


> Glad he enjoyed it. My wife and I have known dozens of people who worked for Disney during their college tenures. Their stories indicate that your friend was the exception, not the rule.
> 
> 
> 
> You want a solution now? Oy gevaldt, all I am doin' is kvetcshn about problems, and a solution you now want? De noive.
> 
> Seriously, though...
> 
> First of all, the pay grades of the employees are something of a moot point; Disney, like most theme parks, hires a variety of people to specifically do a variety of jobs, one of which is simply to clean restrooms. When I worked for a contractor at Six Flags, I knew one of the guys who cleaned rest rooms- his job was not only specific to cleaning restrooms, but, in fact, a specific pair of mens restrooms he alternated between- that's all he did. Trust me when I say that compared to Six Flags- Great Adventure, Disney is like a charitable organization; I'm sure they had similar practices in place. In any case, the guy whose sole responsibility being to clean those two rest rooms, his performance in that area being inadequate would result in immediate termination.
> 
> Amtrak, on the other hand, has TA-S and TA-Cs who deal with one or several cars, and have a variety of responsibilities, first and foremost being passenger safety. I don't have to list the variety of other responsibilities they have, but the main point being that cleaning the rest rooms is not the biggest one. They should, don't get me wrong. But my guy at Six Flags? The rest rooms not clean, he is simply not doing his job. On Amtrak? "I was assisting a passenger, getting a disabled passenger food from the dining car, cleaning a roomette, doing up somebodies room for the night, dealing with some kind of safety problem, ad infinitum, and I didn't have time to clean the restrooms." Prove them wrong.
> 
> I'm not justifying the behavior, I'm explaining the substantially greater difficulty in dealing with it, and that's assuming you have motivated managers. With all due respect to the motivated managers at Amtrak, and those three people know who they are, you don't really have that. You just have government hacks. Attacking that problem first is the beginning of a solution, and that problem is effectively insurmountable.


I would be curious to know what the staffing levels are like for coach attendants and sleeping car attendants. I've heard in other threads here that Amtrak has reduced the number of attendants per train. This had presumably resulted in each attendant having more bathrooms to clean. The increased number might be manageable under best-case conditions, but all they would need would be some moderately unusual circumstances that might make cleaning the restrooms frequently a lower priority for the attendants. I've been in situations where the train has made unscheduled stops to discharge passengers (medical emergency, police "emergency", etc.) or a lot of passengers that need special assistance, etc.

In my experience, dirty restrooms on Amtrak, even in coach, is a spotty occurrence. Usually, they're pretty clean. But if they've been cutting back on car attendants, that might explain why the restrooms aren't as clean as they used to be.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Green Maned Lion said:


> Glad he enjoyed it. My wife and I have known dozens of people who worked for Disney during their college tenures. Their stories indicate that your friend was the exception, not the rule.



No he’s not an exception. I’ve worked for Disney Parks in both California and Florida (through a 3rd party, not direct) and I know lots of people who enjoy their jobs both previous and current with the company.

I singled him out because he worked custodial. 

I’m sure you have friends that didn’t like working for Disney, it’s not for everyone.


----------



## Bob Dylan

JoeBas said:


> Dengue Fever would like to disagree.


Malaria also, even if you take Agent Orange's Favorite Med!!


----------



## caravanman

crescent-zephyr said:


> Actually... Disney custodial wear all white uniforms to represent the cleanliness of the parks.



You didn't realise that it was a joke?


----------



## Devil's Advocate

caravanman said:


> You didn't realise that it was a joke?


In contemporary American English the word "actually" serves as an all-purpose random tangent flag.


----------



## Trogdor

caravanman said:


> Amtrak restroom cleaners dress up in Mickey Mouse outfits?



Isn’t working for one enough?


----------



## gwolfdog

caravanman said:


> You didn't realise that it was a joke?


I thought the statement was Goofy, not really Mickey Mouse.


----------



## Rasputin

gwolfdog said:


> I thought the statement was Goofy, not really Mickey Mouse.


Bathroom cleanliness on Amtrak is a serious topic. It should not be the butt of jokes.


----------



## Barb Stout

Green Maned Lion said:


> Disney basically uses slave labor and the truck system, not sure that's a model to covet.


What is the "truck system"?


----------



## Barb Stout

When I took French in high school, I learned that some European places have bathroom attendants who stay in the bathroom and are constantly cleaning it. I encountered one of these at an opera house in a German city, possibly Frankfurt. She did not appear happy to be there, but the bathroom was clean. When and if things get back to normal on Amtrak, maybe they could have a bathroom attendant who circulates from bathroom to bathroom in all the cars to keep them clean, like the fellow at Disney. Sounds like a dream job to me!


----------



## tricia

Barb Stout said:


> When I took French in high school, I learned that some European places have bathroom attendants who stay in the bathroom and are constantly cleaning it. I encountered one of these at an opera house in a German city, possibly Frankfurt. She did not appear happy to be there, but the bathroom was clean. When and if things get back to normal on Amtrak, maybe they could have a bathroom attendant who circulates from bathroom to bathroom in all the cars to keep them clean, like the fellow at Disney. Sounds like a dream job to me!



Doing nothing but cleaning bathrooms all day every day sounds like hell to me. As PART of a job with other duties, not so bad.

The problem with Amtrak's bathrooms isn't that there's no employee assigned to nothing but cleaning them. It's that some staff seem to think cleaning bathrooms is beneath them, although they're being paid pretty well for a job in which cleaning bathrooms is only part of their duties.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Barb Stout said:


> What is the "truck system"?


Wikipedia will explain it just as easily as I could.



Barb Stout said:


> When I took French in high school, I learned that some European places have bathroom attendants who stay in the bathroom and are constantly cleaning it. I encountered one of these at an opera house in a German city, possibly Frankfurt. She did not appear happy to be there, but the bathroom was clean. When and if things get back to normal on Amtrak, maybe they could have a bathroom attendant who circulates from bathroom to bathroom in all the cars to keep them clean, like the fellow at Disney. Sounds like a dream job to me!



They exist in the United States as well, in high end establishments, as well as, for various reasons, Flea Markets. The job pays little; actually at one flea market I know, Englishtown, they actually charge them for the gig, and they provide towels, soap, cleaning supplies, and so on themselves. The actual pay is in tips.

I used to be a vendor in flea markets some years ago; I knew a guy who did restroom work at several of them. He was like the rest of us; he worked on a circuit, mostly the same circuit I did. For much of my outdoor days, he made more money than I did. When I moved inside Columbus and got rid of the 13-ton box truck, the spot I paid for in Englishtown for supplier transfer, the fuel, the tolls, the insurance on various things, the meals on the road, the motel rooms, and so on, I fixed that problem. But still.


----------



## Barb Stout

tricia said:


> Doing nothing but cleaning bathrooms all day every day sounds like hell to me. As PART of a job with other duties, not so bad.
> 
> The problem with Amtrak's bathrooms isn't that there's no employee assigned to nothing but cleaning them. It's that some staff seem to think cleaning bathrooms is beneath them, although they're being paid pretty well for a job in which cleaning bathrooms is part of their duties.


Of course I was being sarcastic about it being a dream job and indeed it sounds like hell to me too, but was also wondering if there could be assignments like Monday you're going to be a regular car attendant, Tuesday, you're going to be the one that circulates around to all the bathrooms, Wednesday, you're going to be a regular car attendant again, etc. I don't know if bathroom conditions are that bad to do this.


----------



## Qapla

To get better service for the restrooms on the train would most likely involve additional collective bargaining - you can't just ask/expect someone to do something that may not be in their job description


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Qapla said:


> To get better service for the restrooms on the train would most likely involve additional collective bargaining - you can't just ask/expect someone to do something that may not be in their job description



It’s already in their job description.


----------



## Qapla

They may feel that cleaning them on an increased schedule with additional sanitizing is not what they bargained for ...


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Would you do the world a favor and stop attempting to justify institutional laziness? Working or dealing with this mess isn’t in anyone’s job description. Yet we all pitch in and do what we must.


----------



## Qapla

I'm not attempting to justify institutional laziness - just pointing out that non-union businesses are not having any problems getting their employees to step-up and take on the additional tasks.


----------



## crescent-zephyr

Barb Stout said:


> What is the "truck system"?



Disney doesn’t have a truck system by the way. At Disney world they do have some international programs that are a bit... interesting and that’s what I’m assuming GML was talking about.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Qapla said:


> I'm not attempting to justify institutional laziness - just pointing out that non-union businesses are not having any problems getting their employees to step-up and take on the additional tasks.


How do you explain unionized flight attendants keeping coach lavatories reasonably clean while non-unionized restaurants generally have disgusting toilets that make you want to turn and leave when you realize what the cooks are using before preparing your food?



Qapla said:


> To get better service for the restrooms on the train would most likely involve additional collective bargaining - you can't just ask/expect someone to do something that may not be in their job description


Does anything you say come from actual experience or is it all based on vague assumptions? This discussion is starting to remind me of the time you told us how the ventilation works in a sleeping compartment despite having also told us you've never ridden in any.


----------



## jis

Bob Dylan said:


> Malaria also, even if you take Agent Orange's Favorite Med!!


For Malaria, people in Malaria endemic areas develop limited immunity such that subsequent episodes are usually less severe. This is specially true if you get Malaria before your are in your late teens.

Of course the other thing that happens is that US Blood Drives refuse to take your Blood if you frequently visit Malaria endemic areas. They have refused to take my blood ever since I started visiting India every year. During this period I have never had Malaria.


----------



## Rasputin

I am not sure what the current version says (I assume there is a more current version) but the April 30, 2011 Amtrak Service Standards Manual, indicated that Coach attendants were to check the restrooms every hour during the course of the trip and every half- hour between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m. and clean as required. They were to do a heavy cleaning as their last duty in the evening and also after the 6 a.m. - 10 a.m. peak usage time and as needed. They also had the duty to clean the lounge car and restrooms in the lounge car on long distance trains. 

Sleeping car attendants had the similar duties within their car. 

The NEC had a position of en route cleaner and I have seen this en route cleaning being done on trips on Acela trains.

https://www.governmentattic.org/4docs/AmtrakServiceStandardsManual_2011.pdf


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Qapla said:


> I'm not attempting to justify institutional laziness - just pointing out that non-union businesses are not having any problems getting their employees to step-up and take on the additional tasks.



I have seen nonunionized businesses of Which Hades has nothing on the restrooms of.


----------



## Bob Dylan

jis said:


> For Malaria, people in Malaria endemic areas develop limited immunity such that subsequent episodes are usually less severe. This is specially true if you get Malaria before your are in your late teens.
> 
> Of course the other thing that happens is that US Blood Drives refuse to take your Blood if you frequently visit Malaria endemic areas. They have refused to take my blood ever since I started visiting India every year. During this period I have never had Malaria.


I did ( also Hep so cant give Blood or Plasma)and it's not lots of fun, but luckily have not had any relapes!


----------



## me_little_me

MARC Rider said:


> I would be curious to know what the staffing levels are like for coach attendants and sleeping car attendants. I've heard in other threads here that Amtrak has reduced the number of attendants per train. This had presumably resulted in each attendant having more bathrooms to clean. The increased number might be manageable under best-case conditions, but all they would need would be some moderately unusual circumstances that might make cleaning the restrooms frequently a lower priority for the attendants. I've been in situations where the train has made unscheduled stops to discharge passengers (medical emergency, police "emergency", etc.) or a lot of passengers that need special assistance, etc.
> 
> In my experience, dirty restrooms on Amtrak, even in coach, is a spotty occurrence. Usually, they're pretty clean. But if they've been cutting back on car attendants, that might explain why the restrooms aren't as clean as they used to be.


What trains have you been on? Surely, not in coach the LD ones in which most of the restrooms smell by the end of the trip - most, really bad.

And it in NOT a recent problem so I doubt that "cutting back" is the issue. The blame, however, does not belong on Amtrak employees. It belongs on management. Amtrak, IMHO, has never shown an interest in resolving the problem. IF they did, they wouldn't make rules then ignore the failure of the employees to abide by them. IF they showed an interest, they would ride in coach periodically and see for themselves what it is like, not just in the bathrooms, but all the individual rules the employees make up when they feel like it. If there is a problem with employees, they could take action. If their employees need more help, some people whose job it is to clean bathrooms, or whatever, they could do something about it. But they'd rather sit in their ivory towers and do nothing.

Has Flynn even made one portion of a trip in coach on a LD train even before he officially took over? Did Anderson ever do it? Any other executive? And I don't mean in First Class on an Acela when their presence is fully advertised. Did they ever travel from DC to NOL or MIA even in a sleeper and eat the meals they have pawned off on us? The fact is, they don't care about their employees. They don't care about their customers. 

THAT'S THE PROBLEM!


----------



## jis

Bob Dylan said:


> I did ( also Hep so cant give Blood or Plasma)and it's not lots of fun, but luckily have not had any relapes!


I had Maleria before I came to the US, long time back in a galaxy far far away. Took Chloroquine Phosphate back then to beat it. I have never taken anything as a prophylactic against Malaria though.


----------



## caravanman

It is strange how the covid-19 pandemic caused the public to panic buy toilet rolls, and our Amtrak discussion now has a similar theme. Us humans are strange folk. 
Without wishing to prolong the topic, I will say that while standards of cleanliness have not been ideal, I don't recall many occasions where things have been unbearable. Maybe one idea would be for us all to report directly to the coach or sleeper attendant when we find a problem, or even the conductor. If enough people approach them about it, maybe that could get some action, just to get folk off their backs?


----------



## Ferroequinologist

Barb Stout said:


> When I took French in high school, I learned that some European places have bathroom attendants who stay in the bathroom and are constantly cleaning it. I encountered one of these at an opera house in a German city, possibly Frankfurt. She did not appear happy to be there, but the bathroom was clean. When and if things get back to normal on Amtrak, maybe they could have a bathroom attendant who circulates from bathroom to bathroom in all the cars to keep them clean, like the fellow at Disney. Sounds like a dream job to me!



Too expensive. Amtrak will never do this


----------



## Ferroequinologist

caravanman said:


> It is strange how the covid-19 pandemic caused the public to panic buy toilet rolls, and our Amtrak discussion now has a similar theme. Us humans are strange folk.
> Without wishing to prolong the topic, I will say that while standards of cleanliness have not been ideal, I don't recall many occasions where things have been unbearable. Maybe one idea would be for us all to report directly to the coach or sleeper attendant when we find a problem, or even the conductor. If enough people approach them about it, maybe that could get some action, just to get folk off their backs?



The problem is that prior to Covid-19 bathrooms were often not very clean but now with a deadly virus EXTRA attention to cleaning and disinfecting are absolutely ESSENTIAL. If Amtrak couldn't achieve modest standards prior to Covid-19 how are they going to maintain the HIGH standards needed to avoid Covid infections?


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Rest rooms are not a major source of Covid spread- in fact if you engage in the normal (dear god, I hope it’s normal) practice of washing your hands thoroughly after touching and cleaning your unmentionables, I’d say a private bathroom on Amtrak is one of the least likely places to contract the virus that is outside your private enclosed places. Remember to open the door of Amtrak (and all other) public restrooms using a disposable wad of paper (TP or a hand towel works great) and immediately dispose of it. You’ll be fine; the cosmetic cleanliness of the restroom will be irrelevant unless it is so dirty you wouldn’t use it before Covid either.


----------



## Rasputin

caravanman said:


> Maybe one idea would be for us all to report directly to the coach or sleeper attendant when we find a problem, or even the conductor. If enough people approach them about it, maybe that could get some action, just to get folk off their backs?


Unfortunately on Amtrak, there is virtually no accountability, no one seems to be in charge and conductors seem adept at playing disappearing acts. Therefore you complain at your peril. 

I have seen situations at fast food restaurants where a restroom will need some attention. I have mentioned it to an employee. In every instance the employee has thanked me for bringing the problem to their attention and I observe the situation taken care of shortly thereafter. 

On Amtrak I have never been thanked for mentioning these problems. In fact, you are quite apt (from my limited observations) to get your head handed to you. And of course on Amtrak long distance trains, you may be traveling with these employees for the next two or three days. Who wants to **** off an employee and have that affect the enjoyment of your trip for the next day or two (unless of course you thrive on conflict and confrontation as some people do but most of those people are on planes)?

On Amtrak long distance trains, the sleeping car attendants seem to do a good job keeping the restrooms in their car in decent condition based on what I have seen. It is the coach restrooms and the lounge restroom which suffer. The coach attendants have a lot of responsibilities and restrooms being a rather unpleasant duty does not seem to be given priority. I think the solution is to adjust the responsibilities of the coach attendants and make ONE coach attendant responsible for restroom cleanliness in the coaches and the lounge. The duties of that particular attendant would then be reduced in other areas to make up for the extra restroom duties. That attendant should also become one of the highest paid on board service employees. on each train. 

In conversations with a number of relatives who have traveled on Amtrak and from what I have read on discussion groups, I don't think it is possible to overestimate the importance of restroom cleanliness, especially to female passengers. It is a make or break issue. A number of them will not travel on Amtrak again due to the poor condition of the restrooms.


----------



## me_little_me

I've given talks for seniors at the local college and talk to visitors at our local model railroad club where I often run my Amtrak train and talk to people about my experiences. The biggest complain that the first-time coach users have is the restroom cleanliness and many of them say they'll never do it again. Worse, many people who have not traveled by train mention a relative who did (but doesn't anymore) and told them about bathroom conditions.
Stupid Amtrak!
The last time I gave my talk,well over 50 people showed up - all paid a fee to the college for my 4 hour two-session class but I declined the honorarium. I included, among the "good, bad and ugly", the restroom condition as an "ugly" to set their expectations.


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## Green Maned Lion

Sleeping car attendants clean restrooms regularly because they know that if a passenger has trouble finding a clean restroom in their car, they are substantially less likely to give a tip. Coach attendants are rarely tipped, and therefore the cleanliness of the restroom is less important.


----------



## v v

Within the theme of restrooms but a different point.

I assume being a toilet cleaner is one of the least sought after jobs anywhere on the planet, so why do we pay the people who are prepared to or desperate enough to take on this highly challenging job a pittance? Shouldn't they be highly paid to do something that most of the rest of us would never consider doing?

Just a few thoughts in particular for Amtrak and the like if dirty restrooms are one of their largest loss of revenues.

Just to connect into Covid-19 and low paid workers what about care home workers too. Getting very personal with elderly people all day long is not most peoples idea of fun including looking after their hygiene needs. Not Amtrak related I understand, but these often dedicated workers who have come to the fore recently need a mention too for the abysmal pay they receive.

Edit: My view is to have a dedicated restroom and general car cleaner for each LD train. Amtrak could then advertise the fact that their restrooms are cleaned say every 3? hours to maintain the highest levels of hygiene, may just attract more paying customers?


----------



## crescent-zephyr

“Ride amtrak: cause we actually clean the train now!” It does have a nice ring to it


----------



## Green Maned Lion

My wife cleans toilets along with the rest of peoples houses. I can assure you she isn’t paid a pittance to do so.


----------



## v v

Green Maned Lion said:


> My wife cleans toilets along with the rest of peoples houses. I can assure you she isn’t paid a pittance to do so.



That's a first for me, but nevertheless I'm pleased for her.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Green Maned Lion said:


> Rest rooms are not a major source of Covid spread- in fact if you engage in the normal [...] practice of washing your hands thoroughly after touching and cleaning your unmentionables, I’d say a private bathroom on Amtrak is one of the least likely places to contract the virus that is outside your private enclosed places. Remember to open the door of Amtrak (and all other) public restrooms using a disposable wad of paper (TP or a hand towel works great) and immediately dispose of it. You’ll be fine; the cosmetic cleanliness of the restroom will be irrelevant unless it is so dirty you wouldn’t use it before Covid either.


I looked for something to substantiate this claim but found nothing to corroborate your assertions. Viral contamination has been found in bodily fluids that prior studies have shown are likely to be encountered in public restrooms. Amtrak restrooms feature clumsy outdated fixtures that seep water, require extended physical contact to operate, and are prone to recontaminate your hands. The high pressures and tiny basins can ricochet contamination onto other surfaces. Lack of routine cleaning leads to an increasing potential for cross-contamination over the course of the trip. While it's difficult to establish a specific treat level, when all factors are considered Amtrak restrooms are _far_ from ideal and more than a simple wad of tissue can fully mitigate.

@oregon pioneer @SarahZ


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Nonsense. You wash your hands as you are leaving, hold the handle with a protective layer and touch nothing else after doing so, and you will be fine. The virus spreads almost exclusively from the nose and mouth; if your hands are sanitized and you don’t make a habit of licking the walls of Amtrak restrooms, you’ll be fine. A coach seat is a more likely place than the restroom.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

Green Maned Lion said:


> Nonsense. You wash your hands as you are leaving, hold the handle with a protective layer and touch nothing else after doing so, and you will be fine.


In many Amtrak restrooms the sink design requires constant physical contact to release water with a basin that comfortably fits one adult sized hand. Under typical operation a soiled right hand operates a lever to rinse a soapy left hand which is then recontaminated by having to operate the same lever to rinse the right hand. In other restrooms you might be able to use an elbow or something but this would be rather difficult on Amtrak. If you push just slightly too far the water will enter the basin with enough force to ricochet off your hand or even the bottom of the basin and land almost anywhere.



Green Maned Lion said:


> The virus spreads almost exclusively from the nose and mouth; if your hands are sanitized and you don’t make a habit of licking the walls of Amtrak restrooms, you’ll be fine. A coach seat is a more likely place than the restroom.


The virus spreads _through_ the nose and mouth but the source of contamination can potentially be any number of bodily fluids or fecal matter. The paper barrier you previously mentioned is likely to struggle with Amtrak's fixtures because they're located very close to the counter and many of them seep a continuous stream of water that would soak through most towels and tissues.


----------



## MARC Rider

v v said:


> Edit: My view is to have a dedicated restroom and general car cleaner for each LD train. Amtrak could then advertise the fact that their restrooms are cleaned say every 3? hours to maintain the highest levels of hygiene, may just attract more paying customers?



And the restroom cleaner gets higher pay than the regular coach attendants.


----------



## v v

MARC Rider said:


> And the restroom cleaner gets higher pay than the regular coach attendants.



Yes


----------



## SarahZ

Devil's Advocate said:


> I looked for something to substantiate this claim but found nothing to corroborate your assertions. Viral contamination has been found in bodily fluids that prior studies have shown are likely to be encountered in public restrooms. Amtrak restrooms feature clumsy outdated fixtures that seep water, require extended physical contact to operate, and are prone to recontaminate your hands. The high pressures and tiny basins can ricochet contamination onto other surfaces. Lack of routine cleaning leads to an increasing potential for cross-contamination over the course of the trip. While it's difficult to establish a specific treat level, when all factors are considered Amtrak restrooms are _far_ from ideal and more than a simple wad of tissue can fully mitigate.
> 
> @oregon pioneer @SarahZ


Why am I tagged in this?


----------



## caravanman

Of course Jamie is right about low wages. Here in the UK, care home staff, and folk who care for the elderly and infirm by visiting them at home are mostly paid minimum wage, and often are expected to provide their own car to reach clients. A dedicated cleaner for each LD train is a very good idea.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

SarahZ said:


> Why am I tagged in this?



@SarahZ Tag, you’re it.


----------



## Devil's Advocate

SarahZ said:


> Why am I tagged in this?


Only because of this...


I doubt GML will change his mind because of anything I can say, but sometimes I respond to him anyway because I hope others will reconsider the validity of his various proclamations.


----------



## oregon pioneer

Devil's Advocate said:


> ... I hope others will reconsider the validity of his various proclamations.



For my part, liking something does not necessarily indicate full agreement. It indicates that an argument has been made which I recognize to be valid and thought-provoking.


----------



## SarahZ

oregon pioneer said:


> For my part, liking something does not necessarily indicate full agreement. It indicates that an argument has been made which I recognize to be valid and thought-provoking.


Same.


----------



## Green Maned Lion

Fully agree with me? Good god, don't do that. They'll come after you with a net.


----------



## Barb Stout

Devil's Advocate said:


> In many Amtrak restrooms the sink design requires constant physical contact to release water with a basin that comfortably fits one adult sized hand. Under typical operation a soiled right hand operates a lever to rinse a soapy left hand which is then recontaminated by having to operate the same lever to rinse the right hand. In other restrooms you might be able to use an elbow or something but this would be rather difficult on Amtrak. If you push just slightly too far the water will enter the basin with enough force to ricochet off your hand or even the bottom of the basin and land almost anywhere.


Good points. Possible solution is Purell that is operated with your forearm.


----------



## Michigan Mom

Sigh... I didn't want to weigh in on this thread, somehow, feel like I have to. So without further ado. Here is my guide to surviving the restrooms on Amtrak.

First, let's recognize that cleaning is not the most awful thing to do: the alternative, to leave things uncleaned, is worse.
So with that out of the way... you go in to the shared Amtrak restroom with the goal of cleaning. Simply by doing that you will leave it cleaner.
I like to take cleaning wipes in with me, even just one Lysol wipe in my hand or pocket, preferably more, depending on what I have available. (If the SCA leaves a canister there you are gold, doesn't happen often and that was before shortages). Pocket sanitizers, gels, sprays, anything works. But if you've got none of those? You still have what's there - hopefully- paper towels and soap.
Short distance coach trains seem to have only hand dryers and not paper towels, so be sure to take in some napkins if you don't have sanitizing wipes.
So you go in there, lock the door, and survey the domain. Take your sanitizing wipes or use paper towels and soap to clean the faucets, soap dispenser top, sink counter, and toilet seat. Don't forget the door locker knob. Throw paper in trash as you go, don't be shy about using a lot and protecting yourself. If the floor is wet throw down some paper, dry with your feet and use extra paper to pick up these papers. If the previous user has left you a present, pump soap into a cup or your hand and direct soap into the toilet bowl and flush it. I've seen some appalling sights but the extra flushing with soap takes care of it. Wash your hands with soap and water and dry. Line the toilet seat with paper before you use it. By the way if you're wearing long pants roll up the legs to just below your knee so the bottoms of the pants don't touch the floor. For #2 also put some soap into the bowl, that should ensure everything is flushed down. After washing your hands again, dry the sink counter top for the next person. Lastly, get one more fresh paper towel (or napkin from your pocket) and use that to unlock the door and leave. 
I might be crazy but have never gotten sick from a train trip.


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## west point

We have to many pigs that use bathrooms anywhere. Maybe it is time for us patrons to call down any persons behaving like a pig in any restroom that includes not just train bathrooms. My wife always leaves a bathroom better than she finds it.


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## John Bobinyec

west point said:


> We have to many pigs that use bathrooms anywhere. Maybe it is time for us patrons to call down any persons behaving like a pig in any restroom that includes not just train bathrooms. My wife always leaves a bathroom better than she finds it.


So how do you do that? Most bathroom business is done in private. Unless you catch someone in the act by spying on them, how do you know the mess they left wasn't already there when they got there?

jb


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## MrNews

Many interesting points in this thread. As I do not travel coach, I have no worries about the state of their rest rooms, but I would not have used them before the pandemic. My solution would be to bring lots of hand sanitizer, and use it often. This will kill most of the germs & virus on your hands. Because yes, the sinks do cause water to spray all over the place. As for my roomette, I would bring lots of Lysol wipes and sanitize everything upon embarkation. The primary ways to catch Covid19 are through close and enclosed contact with an infected person, or touching a surface with virus on it and then touching your face. Avoiding both those activities reduces the risk for near zero. And I'd still rather be on a train for 24 hours than an airplane for 3.


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## Qapla

I will agree that Amtrak could do a much better job at keeping the restrooms clean.

However, there are times, and I have seen this happen, where the Amtrak employee leaves the restroom after cleaning it. The very next person who uses it leaves it a total mess. The next person who goes in there sees the condition of the restroom and puts the blame on Amtrak for not cleaning the restrooms.

Unless the Amtrak attendant goes into the restroom after each person uses it, they will never keep the restrooms up to the standards some expect.

Can they do a better job than they do now - YES!

Can they always have "perfect looking" restrooms - No.


One trip I was on a guy went into the H-restroom. You could hear a bit of banging/bumping sounds coming from the room and the water running. He was in there for 15-20 minutes. When he came out, his hair was wet and he had different clothes on then he had on when he went in there. The restroom was a total mess! Every surface was wet - even the walls. There was fresh toothpaste on the counter. There was paper towels and toilet paper strewn on the floor. The toilet had not been flushed. Unfortunately, I was the next person to go in there. The other restroom was being used and I could not wait any longer so I had to use this disaster area - and, yes, I flushed the toilet before and after I used it. I did my best to stay dry and get out of there as quickly as I could. I will admit, I did not feel it was my place to clean and dry this room after that man had "taken a bath" in there - so, I didn't. I did wipe up the toothpaste.

I also did not blame the Amtrak employees for the condition of this restroom - I blamed the slob who left the mess.


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## Rasputin

Qapla said:


> I also did not blame the Amtrak employees for the condition of this restroom - I blamed the slob who left the mess.


Since Amtrak employees do not check the condition of the restrooms anywhere as often as they should (and certainly nowhere close to that specified in the job descriptions), they do bear a substantial amount of responsibility for the condition of the restrooms.


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## MARC Rider

Rasputin said:


> Since Amtrak employees do not check the condition of the restrooms anywhere as often as they should (and certainly nowhere close to that specified in the job descriptions), they do bear a substantial amount of responsibility for the condition of the restrooms.


Do you know that for a fact?

I would suggest that Amtrak revive what they were doing on the Silver Star when I rode coach 8 or 10 years ago -- they had a sheet posted on the restroom door with the signature of the attendant and the time he/she cleaned the room. They were doing it every couple of hours, and the restrooms were the cleanest I've ever seen in public restrooms anywhere. I've also seen this done at restrooms in turnpike service plazas. It's easy and fast, and provides positive evidence to both customers and management that the job is getting done.


----------



## Bob Dylan

Michigan Mom said:


> Sigh... I didn't want to weigh in on this thread, somehow, feel like I have to. So without further ado. Here is my guide to surviving the restrooms on Amtrak.
> 
> First, let's recognize that cleaning is not the most awful thing to do: the alternative, to leave things uncleaned, is worse.
> So with that out of the way... you go in to the shared Amtrak restroom with the goal of cleaning. Simply by doing that you will leave it cleaner.
> I like to take cleaning wipes in with me, even just one Lysol wipe in my hand or pocket, preferably more, depending on what I have available. (If the SCA leaves a canister there you are gold, doesn't happen often and that was before shortages). Pocket sanitizers, gels, sprays, anything works. But if you've got none of those? You still have what's there - hopefully- paper towels and soap.
> Short distance coach trains seem to have only hand dryers and not paper towels, so be sure to take in some napkins if you don't have sanitizing wipes.
> So you go in there, lock the door, and survey the domain. Take your sanitizing wipes or use paper towels and soap to clean the faucets, soap dispenser top, sink counter, and toilet seat. Don't forget the door locker knob. Throw paper in trash as you go, don't be shy about using a lot and protecting yourself. If the floor is wet throw down some paper, dry with your feet and use extra paper to pick up these papers. If the previous user has left you a present, pump soap into a cup or your hand and direct soap into the toilet bowl and flush it. I've seen some appalling sights but the extra flushing with soap takes care of it. Wash your hands with soap and water and dry. Line the toilet seat with paper before you use it. By the way if you're wearing long pants roll up the legs to just below your knee so the bottoms of the pants don't touch the floor. For #2 also put some soap into the bowl, that should ensure everything is flushed down. After washing your hands again, dry the sink counter top for the next person. Lastly, get one more fresh paper towel (or napkin from your pocket) and use that to unlock the door and leave.
> I might be crazy but have never gotten sick from a train trip.


Some OBS leave Fabreeze or Lysol in the Restrooms but lots of people have Allergies to Sprays and Air Freshners!

I always try to clean up a little on Trains as needed ! Some people are real Pigs!!


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## Rasputin

MARC Rider said:


> Do you know that for a fact?
> 
> I would suggest that Amtrak revive what they were doing on the Silver Star when I rode coach 8 or 10 years ago -- they had a sheet posted on the restroom door with the signature of the attendant and the time he/she cleaned the room. They were doing it every couple of hours, and the restrooms were the cleanest I've ever seen in public restrooms anywhere. I've also seen this done at restrooms in turnpike service plazas. It's easy and fast, and provides positive evidence to both customers and management that the job is getting done.


Comments are based on my personal observations (and my study of the Amtrak service manual which I have previously cited).

The sign-up sheet is a good idea but hardly novel. My local gas station has been doing this for about 20 years. Why it is not a standard practice on Amtrak is good question.


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## gwolfdog

Has anyone here ever had to use an outdoor Latrine, or been ordered to burn the contents of the half barrel with Diesel Fuel, while stirring it with a pole? How about bathrooms in Barracks will no walls around the toilets? How about squatting in the Jungle with a magazine for toilet paper? The Army lowered my standards. When I travel I monitor what I drink and eat, to avoid the seat.


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## PeeweeTM

Devil's Advocate said:


> ...
> The virus spreads _through_ the nose and mouth but the source of contamination can potentially be any number of bodily fluids or fecal matter.
> ...



I hadn't read yet that one should be afraid of getting the virus via fecal matter. 
But IF a person can excrete active virus via fecal matter et cetera, it poses the question, whether going commando after eating beans is wise.


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## Metra Electric Rider

There has been talk about testing sewage for the virus to see if it is present in a population. My friend at Mweird (Metropolitan Water Reclamation Dist.) here in Chicago was a bit cagy about telling me more on whether they are doing it yet - I mean, they can test for Asian Carp dna in the lake. 

Interestingly, a saw an article last night, which was citing Italian epidemiologists (iirc - can't find it now) saying that "_the_ _virus_" was becoming less potent. Good news perhaps?


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## Twinkletoes

Providing clean and sanitary toilets for common use is complex. When I first started riding trains the coaches had a "Ladies Lounge." It had a large common room with sink and mirrors with seats. Overall the restrooms seemed to be cleaner. 

To fast forward to moderns times. As a result of working with a board of health for 10 years, I’ve never taken train cleanliness (toilet or otherwise) for granted. I am acutely aware of the possibility of viruses and bacteria in the public environment (E. coli, norovirus, hepatitis, staph, to name a few)—including trains. Thus, I’ve always carried both spray and wipe sanitizers for train travel. I usually request a redcap so that I can board early (my usual boarding station is the origination station) to spray my seat and to wipe down the tray table, arm rests and window sill. This way I can avoid anyone's getting bothered by “chemical” spray or smell. After sanitizing my area, I then make what I hope will be my one and only restroom visit. I similarly sanitize my sleeper accommodation.

Some people are piggy in their home bathrooms and it doesn’t stop when they are outside, while others are just inconsiderate in public spaces. Many of us have seen workplace signs such as the following in the break room or toilets: “Your Mother doesn’t work here…” or “Please be neat,…” Finally, I’m reminded about a famous actress who was being interviewed on a talk show about the challenges of celebrity recognition. Surprisingly, she said that it has led to her cleaning a lot of airplane toilets. Why? Even if the toilet were a mess when she entered, she felt compelled to clean it because any person who came after her would assume that she had trashed the toilet and run around telling people that “actress X was an entitled, piggy person who is was too rude to clean up after herself.”

All that being said, just the volume of people using toilets requires attention to sanitation. It’s not demeaning work, it’s an important public health function. With the general attention to sanitizing in the age of Covid-19, perhaps attention to toilet cleaning will be considered a part what’s needed.


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## MARC Rider

Metra Electric Rider said:


> There has been talk about testing sewage for the virus to see if it is present in a population. My friend at Mweird (Metropolitan Water Reclamation Dist.) here in Chicago was a bit cagy about telling me more on whether they are doing it yet - I mean, they can test for Asian Carp dna in the lake.
> 
> Interestingly, a saw an article last night, which was citing Italian epidemiologists (iirc - can't find it now) saying that "_the_ _virus_" was becoming less potent. Good news perhaps?


What they might find from a PCR test wouldn't necessarily be active virus, so even if they found coronavirus or coronavirus fragments in the sewage, that doesn't mean it's a source of coronavirus infection. Of course, there's lots of other infectious stuff in sewage.


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## Metra Electric Rider

MARC Rider said:


> What they might find from a PCR test wouldn't necessarily be active virus, so even if they found coronavirus or coronavirus fragments in the sewage, that doesn't mean it's a source of coronavirus infection. Of course, there's lots of other infectious stuff in sewage.


True, the way I understood it, it was a way to tell if there was a certain infection level in the population.


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## MARC Rider

Metra Electric Rider said:


> True, the way I understood it, it was a way to tell if there was a certain infection level in the population.


Yeah, that's what I thought too, but I've seen the discourse shift to this being solid evidence that you can catch Covid in the toilet or from swimming. (Of course, you can catch it in the toilet from touching unsanitzed surfaces, and these are a lot of other good reasons why I wouldn't swim near a wastewater treatment plant outfall, but coronavirus is not the top of the worry list.


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## Ferroequinologist

Prior to Amtrak every sleeping-car room had its own toilet. Even the Penn Central sleepercoaches (I believe they were later called slumbercoaches), economy roomette type accommodations, had their own toilets. When Amtrak ordered the Superliners they downgraded roomettes by eliminating the toilets and adding a claustrophobic upper berth. Only the Viewliner roomette has a toilet - not practical when there are two people in a room that should be designed for one. The new Viewliners will not have the in-room toilets, however. The only way to avoid the unsanitary public toilets is by travelling in an overpriced Bedroom. With Covid-19 Amtrak's sleeping car flaws are a critical problem.


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## crescent-zephyr

Ferroequinologist said:


> When Amtrak ordered the Superliners they downgraded roomettes by eliminating the toilets and adding a claustrophobic upper berth. Only the Viewliner roomette has a toilet - not practical when there are two people in a room that should be designed for one.



I prefer the Amtrak designed roomette over the traditional roomette. The design of the room is more practical, clean, and less claustrophobic. The only thing I miss is the physical bed and mattress of the traditional room.


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## Ferroequinologist

crescent-zephyr said:


> I prefer the Amtrak designed roomette over the traditional roomette. The design of the room is more practical, clean, and less claustrophobic. The only thing I miss is the physical bed and mattress of the traditional room.



Interesting. I found the old Roomettes much better. It's true that opening the bed once its down is a bit complicated but having the toilet and sink in the room makes it a lot better to me. Less claustrophobic? The Amtrak Superliner roomette accommodates two people in space that used to be for ONE. Two people in one of those rooms couldn't be more claustrophobic.


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## crescent-zephyr

Ferroequinologist said:


> Interesting. I found the old Roomettes much better. It's true that opening the bed once its down is a bit complicated but having the toilet and sink in the room makes it a lot better to me. Less claustrophobic? The Amtrak Superliner roomette accommodates two people in space that used to be for ONE. Two people in one of those rooms couldn't be more claustrophobic.



To me, and this is my personal experience traveling on via and Amtrak, sitting in a room facing a blank wall is more claustrophobic feeling than facing a chair that’s facing me. The toilet and sink taking up extra space doesn’t help. 

I really don’t like the traditional roomette by day, but thankfully on VIA I can spend most of my day In the dome or park car, so no real complaint. 

The Amtrak roomette I find very cozy and a better use of the same amount of space. That’s my opinion of course. And as I said in night time mode I much prefer the traditional roomette with a real mattress.


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## Ferroequinologist

crescent-zephyr said:


> To me, and this is my personal experience traveling on via and Amtrak, sitting in a room facing a blank wall is more claustrophobic feeling than facing a chair that’s facing me. The toilet and sink taking up extra space doesn’t help.
> 
> I really don’t like the traditional roomette by day, but thankfully on VIA I can spend most of my day In the dome or park car, so no real complaint.
> 
> The Amtrak roomette I find very cozy and a better use of the same amount of space. That’s my opinion of course. And as I said in night time mode I much prefer the traditional roomette with a real mattress.



Of course everyone has his / her own preferences. The beds in the Superliners are narrow. Sheets and blankets need to be wider.


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## Twinkletoes

I think this is gender and personality-specific. As a person who loves to curl up with a good read (series of good reads) or binge watch a TV series loaded onto my Kindle Fire at home, I don't find the roomette to be overly confining, I can always change scenery and stretch my legs at long stops, walk the length of the train for exercise, or buy candy in the cafe car. I don't feel claustrophobic. It's like a little nest to me. 

I HATE the public toilet. So far I've only had to experience that on the new Viewliners. Indeed I was dismayed to learn that this would be the norm on the newer sleepers. (1) Public toilets mean less control over ones environment--inconsiderate people; (2) Not to be indelicate--nasty seats are a problem to the gender that probably uses them more. It's time consuming to have to clean and sanitize a toilet before using it. It's especially annoying at night; (3) toilet in the room means toilet on demand; at prime time you can find yourself having to wait (4) you have to make yourself presentable to go there.

By the way, the pre-Viewliner sleepers had a a public toilet at the end of the car in the place of today's shower room. The old bed was extremely comfortable. The one-piece, thick mattress bed came down like a Murphy bed and was the entire length and width of the compartment. That meant that it covered your in-room toilet. While the bed was down you had to use the public toilet. It stayed pretty clean because people had other options during the day.


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## gwolfdog

I have to use a WC when using Amtrak. The room, (Auto Train) had a small toilet in the corner. The chair took up a large area but it was only 17 hours mostly at night. Don't want to bounce around a public restroom. My 65 year old wife give me the nightmares watching her get up and down from the upper bunk. The cost of a bedroom suite both ways might make it easier to ship the car and fly each way, as we did coming home. Then again, the ways things are going, we might have Zombies marching in the streets with the Pandemic.


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## Mark P

Is Amtrak still running the sightseer lounges on the long distance trains? If so, are they enforcing any kind of seating restrictions for social distancing purposes? Have a trip on July 1, and if for some reason there are no lounges, will most likely cancel.


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## brianpmcdonnell17

Mark P said:


> Is Amtrak still running the sightseer lounges on the long distance trains? If so, are they enforcing any kind of seating restrictions for social distancing purposes? Have a trip on July 1, and if for some reason there are no lounges, will most likely cancel.


It depends on the route. The CL is not currently running with a SSL, but most other Superliner routes still are.


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## Mark P

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> It depends on the route. The CL is not currently running with a SSL, but most other Superliner routes still are.


Taking the SW Chief. Assuming the SSL is still there then?


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## OlympianHiawatha

Mark P said:


> Is Amtrak still running the sightseer lounges on the long distance trains? If so, are they enforcing any kind of seating restrictions for social distancing purposes? Have a trip on July 1, and if for some reason there are no lounges, will most likely cancel.


I don't balme you. Unless they let you lounge in the Diner (and I have rarely seen that) you might as well take the bus!


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## Rasputin

Mark P said:


> Taking the SW Chief. Assuming the SSL is still there then?


A sightseer Lounge car shows up every day on the Southwest Chief on the Flagstaff webcam so it is certainly there. 

In the travelogue section, Native Son has posted a report of his recent trip on the Sunset which might give you an idea of travel on Amtrak long distance trains in the virus days.


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## Mark P

Rasputin said:


> A sightseer Lounge car shows up every day on the Southwest Chief on the Flagstaff webcam so it is certainly there.
> 
> In the travelogue section, Native Son has posted a report of his recent trip on the Sunset which might give you an idea of travel on Amtrak long distance trains in the virus days.



Good to hear, thank you! I'll read his travelogue now.


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## Qapla

If you check La Plata, Missouri, USA | Virtual Railfan LIVE camera when the SWC is due in you can see exactly what the consist has ...


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## Maverickstation

The Downeaster will commence with one commuter hour round trip, effective June 15th.









Downeaster passenger rail to restart service Monday


A single round trip between Boston and Brunswick will resume after a two-month service suspension.




www.pressherald.com


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## Michigan Mom

So for anyone who thinks that COVID is a hoax.
Friend got diagnosed, she works as a front line nurse although not on a COVID floor at her hospital. She is ten years younger than me and was so sick and weak it was scary. I was worried about her making it through. She is also the caretaker for her parents and was unable to visit them or even drop off groceries. I was able to help with that, and recently she turned the corner and recovered. 

The lockdowns prevented this from being worse. The precautions that Amtrak is putting in place will make it possible for more travel, not less. Wear a mask as a sign of respect for your health and for the health of other people around you. Consider what is sanitary and what is not, and let that guide your experiences on shared public transport. It is not about any one of us. It's about all of us.


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## lordsigma

Amtrak employee memo circulating around some circles today seems to confirm what's been talked about. In FY21 it appears Amtrak plans to reduce Northeast Corridor frequencies by 32%, 24% on state corridors, and reduction of all long distance trains to thrice weekly except for the Florida service (Cardinal and Sunset Limited would remain thrice weekly). For Florida: the Auto Train would remain daily, and the Star and Meteor would be staggered to maintain daily service to common stations with the Meteor operating four days and the Star operating on the days the Meteor doesn't.


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## crescent-zephyr

Why would Amtrak have a say regarding state corridors?


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## lordsigma

Perhaps an estimate based on what the state partners want to cut? (Just a guess.)


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## lordsigma

Here's a link to a public article that has the memo in it:









Amtrak to cut national trains from daily to 3-day-a-week service - Texas Rail Advocates







texasrailadvocates.org


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## brianpmcdonnell17

Assuming this is accurate, I'm curious if the plans include daily or near daily service for any other segments where multiple LD trains share a route. For example, the LSL and CL could alternate, providing service 6/7 days a week west of Cleveland as well as to NEC points via connections. Another possibility is to intentionally schedule all LDs to serve Chicago on the same days to retain connections.


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## neroden

This appears to be the usual self-sabotage attempt by Amtrak. Write your Congresspeople. Demand daily service. Because less than daily service loses revenue faster than it cuts costs, *every single time, no exceptions*. It's dumbass.


----------



## desertflyer

I found this PDF of questions the Amtrak employees and contractors posed to management back in March. It's a little out of date, but may be of interest to some of you here: Coronavirus – Frequently Asked Questions, Part 2

This one question interested me:


> *Q37. The air filters on our trains -- can they be changed at the origin, turn around points and the endpoints?*
> A37. _Charlie King, VP, Chief Mechanical Officer:_ Amtrak’s HVAC equipment is not designed with filtration systems that can use HEPA filters to trap virus size molecules.


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## vinceg723

I've read a ton here about bathroom cleanliness and the relative safety air circulating through roomettes -- but what are your thoughts on the safety of coaches? I plan to take the CL and CZ next month, and as excited as I am, every time I read the news, I feel I should cancel. 

If one keeps to oneself, uses sanitizer, etc, do you think it's still possible to catch COVID if another passenger in the coach is infected? I can't find much info about air circulation in train coaches and how it would compare to, say, an airplane, which seems to have healthy circulation. 

I've posted about my plans on another thread, I've very excited about taking this trip -- but at the same time, wondering if I should cancel. Thoughts?


----------



## Bob Dylan

vinceg723 said:


> I've read a ton here about bathroom cleanliness and the relative safety air circulating through roomettes -- but what are your thoughts on the safety of coaches? I plan to take the CL and CZ next month, and as excited as I am, every time I read the news, I feel I should cancel.
> 
> If one keeps to oneself, uses sanitizer, etc, do you think it's still possible to catch COVID if another passenger in the coach is infected? I can't find much info about air circulation in train coaches and how it would compare to, say, an airplane, which seems to have healthy circulation.
> 
> I've posted about my plans on another thread, I've very excited about taking this trip -- but at the same time, wondering if I should cancel. Thoughts?


Honestly, with the Acceleration of the Pandemic, I would cancel this trip.

The longer you are around other people, the better your chance to become infected.

And now the CDC is saying that there may be 10 times as many cases as those officially announced!

Look @ taking the trip in September if things improve,( before the LD cutbacks on Oct 1) if possible, or look @2021.


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## MARC Rider

After the first wave of Covid-19 hit the sense population centers of the northeast, a conventional wisdom arose that suggested dense, walkable cities that rely on public transportation are more vulnerable to these epidemics. Of course, that could be countered by the fact that the epidemic was pretty well controlled (or at least better controlled than in the US) in places like South Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong, which are full of dense urban centers that rely on public transportation. 

The current news in the USA further puts a nail in the coffin of the mistaken idea that America needs to rely entirely on automobiles and live in suburban sprawl in order to control epidemics. New cases of covid-19 are now spiking in the Sun Belt, both in the sprawling cities and in rural areas, too, whereas the cases are dropping in the Northeast. New York City is set to go into Phase 3 on July 6, even allowing indoor dining. Transmission rates in the Northeast have dropped below 1.0, which means they actually have some control on the epidemic there. 

Thus, if I wear a mask and try not to get to up-close and personal with other people, I have no real worries about riding transit or Amtrak.


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## gwolfdog

vinceg723 said:


> I've read a ton here about bathroom cleanliness and the relative safety air circulating through roomettes -- but what are your thoughts on the safety of coaches? I plan to take the CL and CZ next month, and as excited as I am, every time I read the news, I feel I should cancel.
> 
> If one keeps to oneself, uses sanitizer, etc, do you think it's still possible to catch COVID if another passenger in the coach is infected? I can't find much info about air circulation in train coaches and how it would compare to, say, an airplane, which seems to have healthy circulation.
> 
> I've posted about my plans on another thread, I've very excited about taking this trip -- but at the same time, wondering if I should cancel. Thoughts?


I faced this decision in April when I had to get out of Florida. I flew because my wife made me and saved 20 hours skipping the Auto Train. Was paralyzed by analysis and uncertainty. Want to go back to Florida in December and will face same concerns with Covid-19 then. To many variables here. Go with your gut. How important is the trip? What are your risk factors? I read every article and received multiple opinions and was even more confused. Good Luck.


----------



## vinceg723

gwolfdog said:


> Go with your gut. How important is the trip? What are your risk factors? I read every article and received multiple opinions and was even more confused. Good Luck.



Thank you and others for the input. This is a 100% pleasure trip. Selfish. But my fear is that the stars won't align in the future. Amtrak may further gut service. At some point, the classes I'm taking will shift from online to in person (giving me less flexibility with timing). And I may not have this much vacation time from my job in the future. So yeah, I may be being selfish here -- but people on this forum would understand (better than friends and colleagues) the lure of making this trip 

I hear you regarding the multiple opinions. One minute, I read the news and I see the cases spiking and everyone being scolded to stay home (as we in NYC have done for 3+ months). Another minute, I chat with people on Instagram whom I see are riding in the coaches, and they feel everything is safe and would do it again. 

I'm going to chat with a friend who is a nurse in Seattle on the front lines of everything (and he'll probably say don't do it ... but we'll see).


----------



## Bob Dylan

vinceg723 said:


> Thank you and others for the input. This is a 100% pleasure trip. Selfish. But my fear is that the stars won't align in the future. Amtrak may further gut service. At some point, the classes I'm taking will shift from online to in person (giving me less flexibility with timing). And I may not have this much vacation time from my job in the future. So yeah, I may be being selfish here -- but people on this forum would understand (better than friends and colleagues) the lure of making this trip
> 
> I hear you regarding the multiple opinions. One minute, I read the news and I see the cases spiking and everyone being scolded to stay home (as we in NYC have done for 3+ months). Another minute, I chat with people on Instagram whom I see are riding in the coaches, and they feel everything is safe and would do it again.
> 
> I'm going to chat with a friend who is a nurse in Seattle on the front lines of everything (and he'll probably say don't do it ... but we'll see).


Sounds like you're doing the right thing, getting info and making a good plan.

We'd all like to be on a LD Train right now as you know, but in my case I'm old and have COPD plus I live in a Hotspot ( the Next New York!) and will have to wait until its Safer to travel anywhere, hopefully 2021!

Keep us posted, if you go we'll all follow your Adventures and be envious!


----------



## gwolfdog

vinceg723 said:


> Thank you and others for the input. This is a 100% pleasure trip. Selfish. But my fear is that the stars won't align in the future. Amtrak may further gut service. At some point, the classes I'm taking will shift from online to in person (giving me less flexibility with timing). And I may not have this much vacation time from my job in the future. So yeah, I may be being selfish here -- but people on this forum would understand (better than friends and colleagues) the lure of making this trip
> 
> I hear you regarding the multiple opinions. One minute, I read the news and I see the cases spiking and everyone being scolded to stay home (as we in NYC have done for 3+ months). Another minute, I chat with people on Instagram whom I see are riding in the coaches, and they feel everything is safe and would do it again.
> 
> I'm going to chat with a friend who is a nurse in Seattle on the front lines of everything (and he'll probably say don't do it ... but we'll see).


I wouldn't call you selfish, unless you're one of the drunks in a bar with no mask on, shown on CNN every 10 minutes. I'm down the road from you in Syracuse and luckily we share the same Governor. I wore gloves a mask and probably a Hazmat Suit if I could of found one. But I'm High risk, (except in most of the South) You sound smart enough too take care of yourself with minimal risk to others.


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## vinceg723

gwolfdog said:


> I wouldn't call you selfish, unless you're one of the drunks in a bar with no mask on, shown on CNN every 10 minutes.



Haha no, that's not me at all. In fact, I'm coming to terms with the idea that this may not be best right now. I had two alternate plans and I'm not even sure those are wise: Plan B was to make the CZ trip with some stops for hiking/biking and fly back east from the Bay Area -- and NOT visit my parents and put them at risk, and instead maybe take a completely different week to fly and see them. Plan C is to just take three days and ride the Capitol Limited to Chicago, have a quick shower, bike ride and an Italian beef sandwich, and ride the Cardinal back. (I've done the Lake Shore Limited westbound 3x but never the other two.) 

The more I look at the news, the more I think Plan B isn't wise ... still thinking about Plan C. Fortunately, it's something that wouldn't require much planning, so I can do it if numbers look better. 

Unfortunately, I don't see things getting better until we have vaccine. I am low risk, 40 and in good health, but I've heard/read some rough stories about this virus from people in seemingly good health.


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## Ferroequinologist

vinceg723 said:


> Thank you and others for the input. This is a 100% pleasure trip. Selfish. But my fear is that the stars won't align in the future. Amtrak may further gut service. At some point, the classes I'm taking will shift from online to in person (giving me less flexibility with timing). And I may not have this much vacation time from my job in the future. So yeah, I may be being selfish here -- but people on this forum would understand (better than friends and colleagues) the lure of making this trip
> 
> I hear you regarding the multiple opinions. One minute, I read the news and I see the cases spiking and everyone being scolded to stay home (as we in NYC have done for 3+ months). Another minute, I chat with people on Instagram whom I see are riding in the coaches, and they feel everything is safe and would do it again.
> 
> I'm going to chat with a friend who is a nurse in Seattle on the front lines of everything (and he'll probably say don't do it ... but we'll see).



I think it's safe in sleepers, especially a Bedroom that has its own toilet or a Viewliner Roomette for the same reason. Long haul coach, much less so.


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## west point

There may be a large demand for sleeper space ?


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## Michigan Mom

We just cancelled our annual 4th of July excursion to the Windy City. At the time the bookings were made, infections were trending down in both MI and IL. Developments over the last few days have not been encouraging, and there are so many uncertainties regarding travel and modes of infection, that it doesn't seem like a vacation, so kind of defeats the purpose. 
I know quite a few people who have to travel frequently to help care for their parents, be it by car, train, or plane. For their sake I am grateful for the precautions that are in place, and I also wouldn't fault anyone who did decide to take a pleasure trip. I just think it better for me to stay home for now.


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## Acela150

Any booking made by September 30th of this year is now eligible for some kind of refund.


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## daybeers

Acela150 said:


> Any booking made by September 30th of this year is now eligible for some kind of refund.


Here is the quote from the website:


> Change and cancellation fees waiver extended for reservations made by September 30, 2020 and the removal of some restrictions on Multi-Ride tickets on the Northeast Corridor extended through September 30, 2020.
> Before traveling on Amtrak, make sure that you have reviewed any advisories or restrictions that may be in place for travel to your destination. Learn more about state-specific travel restrictions.


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## vinceg723

Jumping back on this thread with a few questions as I (re)consider a last-minute CZ trip before Amtrak guts service:

When the app says "80% full," does that really mean 80% of normal full capacity (which would seem to make distancing impossible) or does it mean 80% of the 50% cap? Can the coaches be considered safe if they're 80% full??

What is CZ scenery like west of Glenwood Springs? I don't have time to make the full trip to the west coast -- and I was looking for a good turnaround point. Would, say, Green River, make sense, arriving westbound in the leaving and leaving eastbound the next morning? (followed by an overnight in Glenwood Springs!)


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## brianpmcdonnell17

vinceg723 said:


> Jumping back on this thread with a few questions as I (re)consider a last-minute CZ trip before Amtrak guts service:
> 
> When the app says "80% full," does that really mean 80% of normal full capacity (which would seem to make distancing impossible) or does it mean 80% of the 50% cap? Can the coaches be considered safe if they're 80% full??
> 
> What is CZ scenery like west of Glenwood Springs? I don't have time to make the full trip to the west coast -- and I was looking for a good turnaround point. Would, say, Green River, make sense, arriving westbound in the leaving and leaving eastbound the next morning? (followed by an overnight in Glenwood Springs!)


80% is relative to the cap so really means 40% of seats are occupied. The scenery from Glenwood Springs to Green River isn't as good as Denver to Glenwood Springs, but it's still very interesting and includes Ruby Canyon near the state line.


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## TinCan782

Acela150 said:


> Any booking made by September 30th of this year is now eligible for some kind of refund.


*"Trip flexibility: *Amtrak is waiving all change and cancellation fees for reservations made by September 30, 2020. This includes reservations booked with points."








Coronavirus Update | Amtrak


Amtrak's coronavirus response includes face mask policy updates, cancellation fee waivers, service reductions and cafe service changes.




www.amtrak.com


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## gwolfdog

40% is Much Better than 80%, of course. But what if the 40% are College kids whose school closed because of the Virus. How about the attitude of the Attendant? It's mind boggling. When we flew back to NY in April from Florida, I checked seat charts, made calls etc. Looked 'Safe' after we boarded, then a Pilot sat right in front of us who was catching a Hop to Syracuse. I put on my Headphones and just rode the Turbulence.


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## Sidney

On the Texas Eagle headed to LA in a roomette. i boarded in DC yesterday on the Capitol Limited in Coach. I just couldn't justify paying $220 more for a roomette considering the food offerings and the short length. I booked Coach with the guarantee I would have the seat next to me vacant. At my age,it's tough to sleep in a coach seat by myself. Having a seatmate would have been horrendous. After this pedemic ends and Amtrak fills every Coach seat again I wish there was a way to keep that seat empty. In the past I've tried to buy a second seat but Amtrak wouldn't let me. Having two seats to yourself overnight makes all the difference in the world. I just wish the prices on roomettes on the Eastern trains would come down to earth


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## asherman93

So is it safe in the Superliner roometttes?


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## niemi24s

Many, if not most, here think it's the safest mode of public transportation with respect to Covid-19. I'm inclined to agree.


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## Qapla

A self-contained, fully stocked motorhome may be safer ...


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## flitcraft

Qapla said:


> A self-contained, fully stocked motorhome may be safer ...


And, if sleeper prices keep going up, maybe cheaper as well!


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## ET2020

Qapla said:


> A self-contained, fully stocked motorhome may be safer ...


Don't think I hadn't considered that. 
We are feeling safer about this trip now, then back when we booked.
I just hope & pray that things continue to improve between now and January 2021.


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## me_little_me

I find my private jet to be the safest but my private railcar to be almost as safe but more scenic. Then, again, my yacht might do for overseas travel.


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## gwolfdog

What is safe and at what cost, all around
? NY seems safer than Florida now but if I don't go I'll not see my new Grandchild and suffer through 5-7 months of snow and cold. The Anxiety of trying too make Safe Plans, avoid the Virus, and have some life, at times, feels deadlier than the virus. It's worst if you're older, more Vulnerable, and see the clock ticking. I'll get a Sleeper and drink cheaper beer.  


me_little_me said:


> I find my private jet to be the safest but my private railcar to be almost as safe but more scenic. Then, again, my yacht might do for overseas travel.


Sounds like there are a lot of over fed bulls sharing that rail car!


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## TinCan782

gwolfdog said:


> What is safe and at what cost, all around?
> NY seems safer than Florida now but if I don't go I'll not see my new Grandchild and suffer through 5-7 months of snow and cold. The Anxiety of trying too make Safe Plans, avoid the Virus, and have some life, at times, feels deadlier than the virus. It's worst if you're older, more Vulnerable, and see the clock ticking. I'll get a Sleeper and drink cheaper beer.


Ah, I know the feeling!


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## desertflyer

So I just took the CZ EMY-SLC in a roomette. While there were lots of announcements about masks, actual safety is questionable. In the sleeper I was in, I could not believe how many people would go in their rooms and take their masks off while leaving the doors wide open. Around our room there were 3 rooms immediately adjacent to us that did this. The sleeping car attendant, who did always wear his mask, would pop into their rooms and chat with them. I think the requirement should be to keep the door closed if you don't want to wear your face covering.

The other thing is the way the diner works. I'm sorry but in an enclosed space like that, even with people at every other table, there is a major risk of COVID transmission. Combine this with groups talking loudly and laughing, that is unacceptable in my opinion. It's unsafe for even a masked crew, it's unsafe to walk through, and it's unsafe for other passengers. This would a be prime asymptomatic transmission situation.

Finally, the SLA let an unmasked man onto the train in Reno to help his friends get situated. He asked the SLA if he could before his friends boarded, and there was never any discussion about the fact he was entering the train without a face covering. The people he was helping were able bodied and he was just checking out their room, not helping with luggage. This behavior being tolerated was unacceptable in my opinion. Even masked I think it was inappropriate for him to board the train if he wasn't traveling.

We're taking the CZ back SLC-EMY on Saturday night, so wish me luck. I'm not going to leave San Francisco again until 2021 based on this experience. I've arranged a COVID test for three days after our return (luckily very easy to get in SF) and am already required by health order to quarantine for 14 days upon return anyways. Still, after seeing what COVID has done to a couple of my healthy friends, I am shocked to see such relaxed behavior on Amtrak.


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## Sauve850

desertflyer said:


> So I just took the CZ EMY-SLC in a roomette. While there were lots of announcements about masks, actual safety is questionable. In the sleeper I was in, I could not believe how many people would go in their rooms and take their masks off while leaving the doors wide open. Around our room there were 3 rooms immediately adjacent to us that did this. The sleeping car attendant, who did always wear his mask, would pop into their rooms and chat with them. I think the requirement should be to keep the door closed if you don't want to wear your face covering.
> 
> The other thing is the way the diner works. I'm sorry but in an enclosed space like that, even with people at every other table, there is a major risk of COVID transmission. Combine this with groups talking loudly and laughing, that is unacceptable in my opinion. It's unsafe for even a masked crew, it's unsafe to walk through, and it's unsafe for other passengers. This would a be prime asymptomatic transmission situation.
> 
> Finally, the SLA let an unmasked man onto the train in Reno to help his friends get situated. He asked the SLA if he could before his friends boarded, and there was never any discussion about the fact he was entering the train without a face covering. The people he was helping were able bodied and he was just checking out their room, not helping with luggage. This behavior being tolerated was unacceptable in my opinion. Even masked I think it was inappropriate for him to board the train if he wasn't traveling.
> 
> We're taking the CZ back SLC-EMY on Saturday night, so wish me luck. I'm not going to leave San Francisco again until 2021 based on this experience. I've arranged a COVID test for three days after our return (luckily very easy to get in SF) and am already required by health order to quarantine for 14 days upon return anyways. Still, after seeing what COVID has done to a couple of my healthy friends, I am shocked to see such relaxed behavior on Amtrak.


Did you discuss the open door no mask situation with your attendant? Or anyone?


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## desertflyer

Sauve850 said:


> Did you discuss the open door no mask situation with your attendant? Or anyone?



I did not. It was my understanding that being unmasked in a room with the door open isn't against Amtrak's policies for COVID. If that's not the case, I'll bring it up.


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## Bob Dylan

desertflyer said:


> So I just took the CZ EMY-SLC in a roomette. While there were lots of announcements about masks, actual safety is questionable. In the sleeper I was in, I could not believe how many people would go in their rooms and take their masks off while leaving the doors wide open. Around our room there were 3 rooms immediately adjacent to us that did this. The sleeping car attendant, who did always wear his mask, would pop into their rooms and chat with them. I think the requirement should be to keep the door closed if you don't want to wear your face covering.
> 
> The other thing is the way the diner works. I'm sorry but in an enclosed space like that, even with people at every other table, there is a major risk of COVID transmission. Combine this with groups talking loudly and laughing, that is unacceptable in my opinion. It's unsafe for even a masked crew, it's unsafe to walk through, and it's unsafe for other passengers. This would a be prime asymptomatic transmission situation.
> 
> Finally, the SLA let an unmasked man onto the train in Reno to help his friends get situated. He asked the SLA if he could before his friends boarded, and there was never any discussion about the fact he was entering the train without a face covering. The people he was helping were able bodied and he was just checking out their room, not helping with luggage. This behavior being tolerated was unacceptable in my opinion. Even masked I think it was inappropriate for him to board the train if he wasn't traveling.
> 
> We're taking the CZ back SLC-EMY on Saturday night, so wish me luck. I'm not going to leave San Francisco again until 2021 based on this experience. I've arranged a COVID test for three days after our return (luckily very easy to get in SF) and am already required by health order to quarantine for 14 days upon return anyways. Still, after seeing what COVID has done to a couple of my healthy friends, I am shocked to see such relaxed behavior on Amtrak.


Please report these Safety Violations to Amtrak Customer Relations. 

These are Serious Violations by the Crew!!!


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## OBS

desertflyer said:


> I did not. It was my understanding that being unmasked in a room with the door open isn't against Amtrak's policies for COVID. If that's not the case, I'll bring it up.


That is my understanding as well....


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## gwolfdog

desertflyer said:


> So I just took the CZ EMY-SLC in a roomette. While there were lots of announcements about masks, actual safety is questionable. In the sleeper I was in, I could not believe how many people would go in their rooms and take their masks off while leaving the doors wide open. Around our room there were 3 rooms immediately adjacent to us that did this. The sleeping car attendant, who did always wear his mask, would pop into their rooms and chat with them. I think the requirement should be to keep the door closed if you don't want to wear your face covering.
> 
> The other thing is the way the diner works. I'm sorry but in an enclosed space like that, even with people at every other table, there is a major risk of COVID transmission. Combine this with groups talking loudly and laughing, that is unacceptable in my opinion. It's unsafe for even a masked crew, it's unsafe to walk through, and it's unsafe for other passengers. This would a be prime asymptomatic transmission situation.
> 
> Finally, the SLA let an unmasked man onto the train in Reno to help his friends get situated. He asked the SLA if he could before his friends boarded, and there was never any discussion about the fact he was entering the train without a face covering. The people he was helping were able bodied and he was just checking out their room, not helping with luggage. This behavior being tolerated was unacceptable in my opinion. Even masked I think it was inappropriate for him to board the train if he wasn't traveling.
> 
> We're taking the CZ back SLC-EMY on Saturday night, so wish me luck. I'm not going to leave San Francisco again until 2021 based on this experience. I've arranged a COVID test for three days after our return (luckily very easy to get in SF) and am already required by health order to quarantine for 14 days upon return anyways. Still, after seeing what COVID has done to a couple of my healthy friends, I am shocked to see such relaxed behavior on Amtrak.


Your concerns are all valid, should be reported, but I am skeptical on Amtrak's willingness or ability to correct. Same when we traveled on Auto Train before Pandemic. Seems like the the attitude and backbone of the Service Attendant, who is tipped,for his service, and the Social Responsibility of the passengers are troubling variables. Thanks, raises my concerns, Any Mask Wearers have room on a RV headed South?


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## Qapla

This is what Amtrak has on their site for the mask policy - nothing as to the position of the door



> *Face coverings*: Face coverings: For your well-being and ours, Amtrak requires that all customers and employees wear a face mask or covering that fully covers the entire mouth and nose while onboard and in stations. Face coverings can be removed when customers are in their private rooms. If a customer has a medical condition that makes the customer unable to wear such a standard face covering, a facial shield is an appropriate substitute. Children under 2 years old are exempt from wearing a face covering. Amtrak reserves the right to remove a customer or ban them from future travel in the event of noncompliance with Amtrak’s face covering policy.


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## MARC Rider

Qapla said:


> This is what Amtrak has on their site for the mask policy - nothing as to the position of the door


What if you're in coach sitting at your seat eating or drinking? On my trip last week, while I wore my mask at all times in the station and on-board, I did take it off while enjoying my Am-bagel, yoghurt, and coffee, and, on the way home, my Am-gin & Am-tonic. I suppose one could design a mask with some sort of fitting for a straw, but I can't see how you could design one to let solid food pass through.


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## JayPea

MARC Rider said:


> What if you're in coach sitting at your seat eating or drinking? On my trip last week, while I wore my mask at all times in the station and on-board, I did take it off while enjoying my Am-bagel, yoghurt, and coffee, and, on the way home, my Am-gin & Am-tonic. I suppose one could design a mask with some sort of fitting for a straw, but I can't see how you could design one to let solid food pass through.


You can have your mask off, even in coach, while eating.


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## Qapla

You can have your mask off while "actively" eating and/or drinking. You can't ride along with an open bag of chips (or whatever) and/or a drink cup just so you can "say" you are eating in order to take the mask off. You must actually be eating and/or drinking.

For example : If you are holding a large drink, you pull the mask down each time you sip/drink and replace it while you are just riding with the cup in your possession.


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## Sauve850

Qapla said:


> This is what Amtrak has on their site for the mask policy - nothing as to the position of the door


They need to change that. Might be a real liability issue if someone gets sick and it gets legal.


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## Qapla

I agree - that should be changed and spelled out in the written policy


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## MARC Rider

Qapla said:


> You can have your mask off while "actively" eating and/or drinking. You can't ride along with an open bag of chips (or whatever) and/or a drink cup just so you can "say" you are eating in order to take the mask off. You must actually be eating and/or drinking.
> 
> For example : If you are holding a large drink, you pull the mask down each time you sip/drink and replace it while you are just riding with the cup in your possession.


If the policy is that detailed, that's ridiculous.
That's one of the problems with expecting detailed policy manuals to answer all questions. Most people aren't going to read that much detail, even if it's made available, and all you'll get are arguments between rider-"lawyers" and the train crew. I really don't think that even if you sit at your seat (by yourself) without a mask on the whole trip, that the risk is particularly higher than wearing a mask and taking it off to eat. The high back reclining seat certainly restricts the ability of the emissions from your facial orifices drifting forward to the person sitting head of you. So I suspect that train crews wouldn't make a big deal over the person with a drink and chips. I know that on my trip, when I got back to my seat with my food and drink, I took off my mask to consume them and kept it off until I was finished. I was not bothered by train crew or other passengers.


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## Qapla

I never said the policy is "that detailed" and it should not have to be ...



MARC Rider said:


> I suspect that train crews wouldn't make a big deal over the person with a drink and chips. I know that on my trip, when I got back to my seat with my food and drink, I took off my mask to consume them and kept it off until I was finished. I was not bothered by train crew or other passengers.



As it should be.

However, were you sitting with some food or drink "available" for the entire trip so you could keep your mask off?

If someone were to board the train, sit down, open a bag of chips, remove their mask and ride along with their mask off and several hours later still have their mask off and the bag of chips still looks full that "train crew or other passengers" just may "bother" them.

From what you described you were actively eating - not just riding along with food/drink available just so you wouldn't have to wear the mandated mask.


----------



## desertflyer

MARC Rider said:


> If the policy is that detailed, that's ridiculous.
> That's one of the problems with expecting detailed policy manuals to answer all questions. Most people aren't going to read that much detail, even if it's made available, and all you'll get are arguments between rider-"lawyers" and the train crew. I really don't think that even if you sit at your seat (by yourself) without a mask on the whole trip, that the risk is particularly higher than wearing a mask and taking it off to eat. The high back reclining seat certainly restricts the ability of the emissions from your facial orifices drifting forward to the person sitting head of you. So I suspect that train crews wouldn't make a big deal over the person with a drink and chips. I know that on my trip, when I got back to my seat with my food and drink, I took off my mask to consume them and kept it off until I was finished. I was not bothered by train crew or other passengers.



In San Francisco, you must wear a facial covering to if you're outdoors within 30 feet of someone else. If eating at outdoor dining (indoor dining has not reopened yet), you musts wear your mask from before you arrive at the restaurant to the moment your food is delivered. You are supposed to wear your facial covering if you're not actively taking a bite or drink. Most restaurants won't have staff come to your table if you're unmasked. It makes sense and is based in the science of what we know about how this virus spreads.

I'm sorry to share the unfortunate truth that leaving your mask off while at your seat in coach does expose other people to your droplets. Look at some of the infection maps from offices or planes, where one infected asymptomatic person was able to infect numerous other people nearby, many of which are further than 6 feet away.

I'm not saying don't eat or drink, but it does seem unnecessary to not follow the science on this and make some small changes to reduce risk of exposure for others and yourself.


----------



## ET2020

desertflyer said:


> In San Francisco, you must wear a facial covering to if you're outdoors within 30 feet of someone else. If eating at outdoor dining (indoor dining has not reopened yet), you musts wear your mask from before you arrive at the restaurant to the moment your food is delivered. You are supposed to wear your facial covering if you're not actively taking a bite or drink. Most restaurants won't have staff come to your table if you're unmasked. It makes sense and is based in the science of what we know about how this virus spreads.
> 
> I'm sorry to share the unfortunate truth that leaving your mask off while at your seat in coach does expose other people to your droplets. Look at some of the infection maps from offices or planes, where one infected asymptomatic person was able to infect numerous other people nearby, many of which are further than 6 feet away.
> 
> I'm not saying don't eat or drink, but it does seem unnecessary to not follow the science on this and make some small changes to reduce risk of exposure for others and yourself.


Where might I find one of those "infection maps" ?


----------



## Qapla

Not sure if I would want to handle an infected map ...


----------



## AmtrakBlue

On Amtrak's website today



> Amtrak is waiving all change fees for reservations made by December 31, 2020 and all cancellation fees through October 31, 2020.


----------



## Anderson

AmtrakBlue said:


> On Amtrak's website today


It's a bit annoying that they cut it _that_ fine on announcing the extension...but that's par for the course these days.


----------



## AmtrakBlue

Anderson said:


> It's a bit annoying that they cut it _that_ fine on announcing the extension...but that's par for the course these days.


Well, I don't know when it first appeared.


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## desertflyer

I took the CZ back to EMY and it was a better experience re: COVID measures. The conductors were enforcing a rule that if you didn't want to wear your mask in your room, you needed to have your door closed. People followed the rule!

They also said that if you're eating at your seat in coach to be reasonable, "it does not take an hour to eat a bag of chips." One of the conductors made an announcement that if you don't like the rule, don't ride the train, and if you want to give them any trouble you'll be off at the first town, that Amtrak doesn't even require them to wait until the next station.

Sure, it was a bit much, but some people clearly needed it. Overall this trip felt safer than the previous one. I still think I'm going to do everything in my power to not go anywhere for a bit longer.


----------



## desertflyer

ET2020 said:


> Where might I find one of those "infection maps" ?



There are a couple I have off the top of my head, but I know there are more.

Here is what happened in a South Korean call center where they had a superspreader incident.





Blue are confirmed COVID cases. (Source: Centers for Disease Control) Notice how the cases stayed mostly to one side of the office, but on that side it infected quite a few people. The paper is an interesting read.

Here is a case of spread on an airline, Vietnam Airlines from London to Hanoi.




(Source: Centers for Disease Control)

It's a little tough to see, but the index case is in row 5 of business class. Almost everyone else in business class ended up contracting COVID. The good news here is that the person up front didn't infect everyone in the back.

There is another case of a person contracting COVID after a flight. The real interesting piece in this one is that the passenger wore a mask, but did not cover his nose. He became infected. It's a pretty interesting read too! Source: Science Direct


----------



## Maverickstation

The Winter Park Ski Trains will not operate for the 2021 Season.









Rail News - Amtrak cancels Winter Park Express for 2020-21 season. For Railroad Career Professionals







www.progressiverailroading.com


----------



## jiml

From Business Insider:


I flew from New York to Boston and returned on Amtrak. Here's why the train blew the plane out of the water during the pandemic.


----------



## ET2020

jiml said:


> From Business Insider:
> 
> 
> I flew from New York to Boston and returned on Amtrak. Here's why the train blew the plane out of the water during the pandemic.


Hi JimL
Nice article -- My wife is definitely glad we're doing the AutoTrain to Orlando instead of flying.
Looks like our journey has the train at 45% booked right now, although all the bedrooms are sold out.
Do you know - Are they filling all the bedrooms, or does it represent being Sold-Out based on a maximum occupancy ??


----------



## AmtrakBlue

ET2020 said:


> Hi JimL
> Nice article -- My wife is definitely glad we're doing the AutoTrain to Orlando instead of flying.
> Looks like our journey has the train at 45% booked right now, although all the bedrooms are sold out.
> Do you know - Are they filling all the bedrooms, or does it represent being Sold-Out based on a maximum occupancy ??


I think Amtrak is selling all rooms and only 50% of coach seats.


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## ET2020

AmtrakBlue said:


> I think Amtrak is selling all rooms and only 50% of coach seats.


OK - Thanks for that feedback!


----------

