# Protection for people in engine/cab in collisions



## Ziv (Jul 28, 2022)

Dang. Is there a protected spot for the engineer to hunker down in when he sees that he is going to hit a truck like this? I always wonder if locomotive designers design the underside of the engineers "dashboard/workstation" with a padded/reinforced lining to protect the engineer in case of a collision. Being belted in would protect you to some extent but getting down and out of the way of flying cars and other debris might be useful too. But in most cases the engineer probably has just a handful of seconds to brace so maybe not.


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## west point (Jul 28, 2022)

Ziv said:


> Dang. Is there a protected spot for the engineer to hunker down in when he sees that he is going to hit a truck like this? I always wonder if locomotive designers design the underside of the engineers "dashboard/workstation" with a padded/reinforced lining to protect the engineer in case of a collision. Being belted in would protect you to some extent but getting down and out of the way of flying cars and other debris might be useful too. But in most cases the engineer probably has just a handful of seconds to brace so maybe not.


If below window is reinforced the engineer needs a clear path to meet the collision with back against bulkhead and head also being able to be placed on bulkhead. Even so there is always the possibility of the brain being sent back against skull. Maybe a worried engineer could get a model of the latest NFL helmet to wear?y


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## cirdan (Jul 29, 2022)

In the UK engineers typically seek refuge in the machine compartment of the locomotive which typically offers better protection .

On multiple unit trains there is a connecting door to the passenger area and engineers escape into that and run as far back as they can and encourage passengers to do the same

An engineer friend of mine once told me that if ever you see an engineer coming out of that door in a hurry , don’t think twice but run


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## Dutchrailnut (Jul 29, 2022)

Keep in mind no matter if you run an engine or cab car the protection as per CFR49 is same . in collission the best place is the floor.


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## blueman271 (Jul 29, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> Keep in mind no matter if you run an engine or cab car the protection as per CFR49 is same . in collission the best place is the floor.


Do locomotives have seat belts?


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## west point (Jul 29, 2022)

If you are running away from a collision when it happens you are going to fly back to the front of the car. Running speed only slows you 10 - 12 MPH if you are fit.


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## Acela150 (Jul 30, 2022)

cirdan said:


> An engineer friend of mine once told me that if ever you see an engineer coming out of that door in a hurry , don’t think twice but run



The sad part is that this is a seriosuly true statement. 


blueman271 said:


> Do locomotives have seat belts?



No.


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## bonzoesc (Jul 30, 2022)

blueman271 said:


> Do locomotives have seat belts?


Would they need them? The Siemens Charger alone weighs 260,000 pounds, and in a collision the mass of the carriages behind them is going to compress and push it forwards. A Brightline consist with two locos and three cars is 856,000 pounds. By comparison, road truck weight limits in the US seem to run out not far above 130,000 pounds. At those weight ratios, is the cab going to decelerate more drastically than the operators can hang on?


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## west point (Jul 30, 2022)

bonzoesc said:


> . By comparison, road truck weight limits in the US seem to run out not far above 130,000 pounds. At those weight ratios, is the cab going to decelerate more drastically than the operators can hang on?


Not true. Federal limits are a uniform 80k nationwide. Of course bridge limits can be much lower but they become elgible for additional federal funds for replacement. A few states have a higher limit . Michigan is higher in summer. Alaska and Canada have no idea. However, you can have permitted loads in states that can be any weight.

Permitted loads usually have to follow routes that will not over load bridges. That limit may require a very long carrier to spread load beyond adjaecent bents. As well tire limits usually of 4500 - 5000 pounds on each tire. As well certain distances between tires required so there is no additional weight at bottom of pavement. There is a whole service that keeps most carriers legal. Many very heavy carriers cannot be split up to be under 80k and will need permits to ferry between jobs. Many of the Hulcher and other wreck equipment companies equipment is oversize /overweight TTs. Imagine they have permits ready to get emergency authorization.a

Loads can be anything. Remember the 1 million pound electrical cabinet that tne Carolinian hit.

Moving the wrecked Chief's SLs certainly got permitted quickly


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## Ziv (Jul 30, 2022)

bonzoesc said:


> Would they need them? The Siemens Charger alone weighs 260,000 pounds, and in a collision the mass of the carriages behind them is going to compress and push it forwards. A Brightline consist with two locos and three cars is 856,000 pounds. By comparison, road truck weight limits in the US seem to run out not far above 130,000 pounds. At those weight ratios, is the cab going to decelerate more drastically than the operators can hang on?


Your comment made me chuckle a bit. There isn't much that is going to stop a locomotive in its tracks. But I think seat belts might still be mandated. 
OT, I think of the Cascades wreck in 2017 where the locomotive ended up on its side (I believe). I heard a quote of the engineer telling the dispatcher that his locomotive and the train were "on the ground" and it sounded like his heart was broken. Being an engineer is a very cool job, until it isn't.


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## blueman271 (Jul 30, 2022)

bonzoesc said:


> Would they need them? The Siemens Charger alone weighs 260,000 pounds, and in a collision the mass of the carriages behind them is going to compress and push it forwards. A Brightline consist with two locos and three cars is 856,000 pounds. By comparison, road truck weight limits in the US seem to run out not far above 130,000 pounds. At those weight ratios, is the cab going to decelerate more drastically than the operators can hang on?


Because collisions aren‘t the only accidents trains are involved in.


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## cirdan (Jul 31, 2022)

west point said:


> If you are running away from a collision when it happens you are going to fly back to the front of the car. Running speed only slows you 10 - 12 MPH if you are fit.


I guess the idea is to run to a safer place and lie down there.


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## Dutchrailnut (Jul 31, 2022)

cab floor , running back in Engine gets you to scalding or being crushed. 
In cab car the collision post and front door frame are strongest part of car, so even there floor is best.


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## jis (Jul 31, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> cab floor , running back in Engine gets you to scalding or being crushed.
> In cab car the collision post and front door frame are strongest part of car, so even there floor is best.


Also the Cab in the new locos is a "safety cage", the engine compartment is not.


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## Ziv (Aug 1, 2022)

So there are safety cages. That makes sense but I didn't know if it was commonly done. 
Thank you all for the info!
I rode in the locomotive with my Dad when I was 9 or 10 so I don't remember that much about it. He got promoted ( I think?) after the first trip so I traveled with him in the caboose from then on whenever it was a Father/Son trip. I think all of our trips were when he was working with BN but the first one might have been one of the last GN trips from Glasgow to Williston, later to Minot, if memory serves.


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## George Harris (Aug 3, 2022)

In steam engine days you always had the boiler in front of you. Notice that the Pennsylvania GG-1 electrics had the cab well back from the front of the engine. This was, among other things considered a crew safety situation. Likewise, in the early days of diesels, after the carbody E and F units, Southern Railroad, and maybe some others, diesels were bought to run normally long end forward. In general crews liked this. However in later years it became an excuse to go after the railroad for fume inhalation issues.


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## west point (Aug 3, 2022)

George Harris said:


> Southern Railroad, and maybe some others, diesels were bought to run normally long end forward. In general crews liked this. However in later years it became an excuse to go after the railroad for fume inhalation issues.


N&W did also. However they had some with short hood forward, Shorrt hood forward was used on very curvy lines. The Virgina creeper to West Jefferson NC was oe route with SH. N&W had a few with dual cotrols for both directions.


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## WWW (Aug 4, 2022)

Another accident to comment on - today the Capitol Limited in Maryland hit a semi-truck (the trailer end)
LINK:





amtrak accident today - Bing video







www.bing.com


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