# Chase tightening up credit



## rogers55 (Feb 2, 2009)

I have noticed that Chase has been going strictly by the rules on the Amtrak credit card these days.

In the past I could go $1,000 over the limit and they didn't care as long as it was paid down by the end of the month.

This month I was $31 over and they cut me off.

When I get a big dentist bill or car repair its nice to be able to stick it on the card for the points even if I can pay it in cash.

With the economy the way it is they must be getting stuck more often.


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## the_traveler (Feb 2, 2009)

I have never been anywhere near the credit limit, so I don't know. But wouldn't it be possible just to try to raise your limit? :huh:

A few years ago, I paid a tax bill for someone else on my United Airlines Visa for frequent flyer miles. (OK it wasn't AGR, but it was Chase!) It was a large tax, and *WELL* over my credit limit. So I called Chase to see if I could get it temporarily raised. They took some information, and within a few minutes, it was raised to $26,000 (from IIRC something like 8K)! It remained 26K, even though my "average" month was less than $1,000.

Chase may do the same for your AGR credit card. Besides having a higher limit also helps your credit score. They base it partially on how much of your limit you are using. A bill of $1000 uses more of a $1,500 limit than of a $10,000 or $26,000 limit!


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## sechs (Feb 3, 2009)

Perhaps you haven't heard the news.... the economy isn't doing so well, and there's a credit crunch. A lot of credit card issuers are cutting limits or outright canceling cards, even on people who really seem to be low-risk.


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## jackal (Feb 3, 2009)

sechs said:


> Perhaps you haven't heard the news.... the economy isn't doing so well, and there's a credit crunch. A lot of credit card issuers are cutting limits or outright canceling cards, even on people who really seem to be low-risk.


The Chase World MasterCard has a published benefit of a "no pre-set spending limit." You can exceed your credit limit with no penalty, as long as you pay the full amount over your credit limit (plus your standard revolving charges' minimum payment) when your bill comes due.

In this way, MasterCard (as well as Visa's Signature product) competes with American Express's charge cards.

The amount which the issuing banks will allow you to exceed your limit is based on a number of factors, one of which is your previous spending and payment patterns. If you have a $10,000 limit but usually only charge $1,000 per month and pay it off in full but then suddenly charge $10,200 in another month, the issuing bank may decline charges after a moderate amount over your limit--maybe $1,000 or $2,000. However, if you have a $25,000 limit and regularly charge $20,000 and pay it off in full every month, the bank may feel comfortable allowing you to exceed your limit by $10,000 or more.

The worst case: if you have a limit of, say, $5,000 but have a habit of charging $1,000 but only paying off $200 per month and reach the $5,000 limit after just a few months, the bank is not going to let you go much more than a few dollars over your limit before declining charges. And if you've missed payments, you can probably forget about going over the limit at all (and the bank would likely drop you down to a more basic card which does not include the "no pre-set spending limit" feature).

The economic slump is definitely causing the card issuers to cut the amounts they'll allow cardholders to go over their limits, so whatever they used to allow is now cut down to a fraction of that.


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## had8ley (Feb 3, 2009)

Let me say this about credit cards: "Buyer Beware!" We held an American Express card for over 30 years. I paid the bill, in full, monthly. I started noticing interest charges on each month's bill. I called Amex and this is what they said. "From the time you charge until we receive your payment you will pay interest." So, if we went out to eat and I used the Amex card, that I paid for in annual dues, I was getting double slammed by the interest that accrued from the time we left the dinner table until my payment check was processed by Amex which could be as much as 60 days. Pretty slick way to make some extra bucks. Needless to say, we are no longer Amex card members.


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## soitgoes (Feb 3, 2009)

had8ley said:


> Let me say this about credit cards: "Buyer Beware!" We held an American Express card for over 30 years. I paid the bill, in full, monthly. I started noticing interest charges on each month's bill. I called Amex and this is what they said. "From the time you charge until we receive your payment you will pay interest."


That is only supposed to happen if you carry a balance (of even $0.01), and almost all cards have the same rule.

I use an Amex credit card, pay in full every month, and am never charged interest.

To the OP, the AGR Chase World Mastercard is a World card that has a preset spending limit plus some sort of vague "additional limit" that would have to be paid off each month. It sounds like they reduced that "additional limit" for you.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Feb 3, 2009)

soitgoes said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Let me say this about credit cards: "Buyer Beware!" We held an American Express card for over 30 years. I paid the bill, in full, monthly. I started noticing interest charges on each month's bill. I called Amex and this is what they said. "From the time you charge until we receive your payment you will pay interest."
> ...



As long as you pay the card back (in absolute fullness) you're good. I laugh at cards that say 0% APR for the first few months because the fine print almost always say (If bills paid on time)


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## Ryan (Feb 3, 2009)

Hopefully not too tight! This thread finally put me over the edge to apply for it. I've got decent credit, but when I applied for an AmEx about 9 months ago they gave me an OMG XBOX HUGE credit limit, so I'm a little concerned about having "too much" credit available to qualify.

Anyhow, I suppose that I'll hear in a week or two!


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## sechs (Feb 4, 2009)

jackal said:


> The Chase World MasterCard has a published benefit of a "no pre-set spending limit." You can exceed your credit limit with no penalty, as long as you pay the full amount over your credit limit (plus your standard revolving charges' minimum payment) when your bill comes due.


This is not what "no preset spending limit" means.

On a card with no preset spending limit, the issuer _may _allow you to exceed your stated limit. Authorisation decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.

You don't have to pay the amount over your stated limit, but you would then incur the over limit penalties.


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## had8ley (Feb 4, 2009)

soitgoes said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > Let me say this about credit cards: "Buyer Beware!" We held an American Express card for over 30 years. I paid the bill, in full, monthly. I started noticing interest charges on each month's bill. I called Amex and this is what they said. "From the time you charge until we receive your payment you will pay interest."
> ...


And every Amtrak train is "supposed" to arrive on time. I promise you we didn't stay up last night dreaming this one up. I did a lot of research before we dumped Amex on the right-of-way.


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## jis (Feb 4, 2009)

had8ley said:


> And every Amtrak train is "supposed" to arrive on time. I promise you we didn't stay up last night dreaming this one up. I did a lot of research before we dumped Amex on the right-of-way.


Fortunately so far Amex has not applied that rule to me yet, i,e, I have not had to pay any interest to Amex yet, and I do charge considerable amounts to it all the time, but pay it off immediately when billed too.


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## jackal (Feb 5, 2009)

sechs said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > The Chase World MasterCard has a published benefit of a "no pre-set spending limit." You can exceed your credit limit with no penalty, as long as you pay the full amount over your credit limit (plus your standard revolving charges' minimum payment) when your bill comes due.
> ...


Um, if you read the third paragraph in my original post, you'll see that what I said basically agrees with what you said.

And actually, authorization decisions are not "made on a case-by-case basis"--that is, there isn't someone sitting around waiting for you to try to charge your card and then hitting a magic green or red button after they analyze your account. The issuing bank's computer systems (along with the occasional manual review) periodically process a risk analysis on your account and automatically establish criteria which determine which charges over the limit will go through (number of transactions, maximum dollar amount of a single transaction, total dollar amount over the limit, etc.). So yes, in a sense, it is done on a case-by-case basis, but more accurately, your current credit profile determines your ability to charge over the limit.

As to your last sentence, that's news to me. This is from the Visa Web site describing the Signature product:



> If your card issuer authorizes a transaction that causes you to exceed your revolving credit line, then you must pay, as part of your monthly minimum amount due, the amount by which your new balance exceeds your revolving credit line.


Whenever I've exceeded my limit, my statement always shows the minimum payment as the amount over my credit limit plus the minimum payment due on the revolving balance. I've never attempted to test the system by not paying the full amount due. If you're right, I'd just be slapped with an additional $39 (or whatever) over-limit fee; if I'm right, my account would be in default. Either way, I have no interest in [voluntarily] testing which is true.


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## PRR 60 (Feb 5, 2009)

jis said:


> had8ley said:
> 
> 
> > And every Amtrak train is "supposed" to arrive on time. I promise you we didn't stay up last night dreaming this one up. I did a lot of research before we dumped Amex on the right-of-way.
> ...


Once there was one and only one AMEX card - green. Now there are a multitude of colors and flavors of cards put out by Amex, including the Delta and SPG affinity cards. It would be interesting to know which Amex version is the one generating finance charges from day one.


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## jackal (Feb 5, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> Once there was one and only one AMEX card - green. Now there are a multitude of colors and flavors of cards put out by Amex, including the Delta and SPG affinity cards. It would be interesting to know which Amex version is the one generating finance charges from day one.


The Green, Gold (and Rewards Plus Gold), and Platinum Cards (capitalized as such by American Express) as well as their business variants, the Fidelity-branded partner cards, the Costco Business Card, the Plum Card, the Centurion (black) Card, and corporate (purchasing) cards are charge cards and should not charge any interest (and also must be paid off in full each month, unless you participate in the Sign & Travel or Extended Payment options). All of the other cards, including (I think this is all of them) the Delta-branded cards, SPG cards, HHonors cards, JetBlue cards, Costco TrueEarnings cards, Platinum Credit cards, Optima cards, Simply Cash cards, Cash Rebate cards, One cards, Clear cards, and Blue cards (phew!), are credit cards and allow you to revolve a balance. These charge interest unless they are paid in full every month.

One thing _is_ for certain: American Express has an extensive (and confusing) card line-up!


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## sechs (Feb 5, 2009)

jackal said:


> Um, if you read the third paragraph in my original post, you'll see that what I said basically agrees with what you said.


Um, if you read the third paragraph of your original post, you'll see that's not what you said.

A credit card issuer can give you World Mastercard or Signature Visa with no intention of letting you exceed your stated limit. And it's up to the issuer to decide whether and by how much to go beyond that stated limit.



> And actually, authorization decisions are not "made on a case-by-case basis"





> So yes, in a sense, it is done on a case-by-case basis


Better make up your mind on this one. You can't have it both ways.


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## jackal (Feb 6, 2009)

sechs said:


> jackal said:
> 
> 
> > Um, if you read the third paragraph in my original post, you'll see that what I said basically agrees with what you said.
> ...


My third paragraph states that the card issuers determine the amount they'll allow you to go over your limit based on a number of profile factors. Yes, I didn't say it outright, but this includes not allowing you to go over your limit at all.

You expanded on what I said, but I don't appreciate being falsely accused of being wrong just because I didn't say it in the same terms you did.



sechs said:


> > And actually, authorization decisions are not "made on a case-by-case basis"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you're just being silly. You also omitted the rest of the sentence of the first quote which explains that they're not contradictory.

I'm normally a pretty easygoing person, but I do not appreciate being made out to be a fool. If you're going to disagree with me, do so respectfully, which is not what you did in your original response to me. Whenever I disagree with someone, I acknowledge that the other person's interpretation has merit but that I have a different interpretation based on my experience. I leave it to the person reading to decide whose interpretation is true. I never just flat out say, "You're wrong." You would have appeared much less antagonistic if you had said, "Actually, it's been my experience that 'no preset spending limit' means something different." It actually makes your point of view appear more rational and worth considering...especially when immediately following that claim, you make a definitive claim about something which is then shown to be false--now your first claim is also suspect.


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## PRR 60 (Feb 6, 2009)

jackal said:


> ...All of the other cards, including (I think this is all of them) the Delta-branded cards, SPG cards, HHonors cards, JetBlue cards, Costco TrueEarnings cards, Platinum Credit cards, Optima cards, Simply Cash cards, Cash Rebate cards, One cards, Clear cards, and Blue cards (phew!), are credit cards and allow you to revolve a balance. These charge interest unless they are paid in full every month.


One interesting use of language by Amex with their credit card offerings is the statement that the payment "grace period" is "up to 20 days". Up to? That statement is the same as the mathematical term "grace period is less than or equal to 20. In a literal sense, zero is "less than or equal to 20". So, technically speaking, Amex could eliminate the grace period and still be within the T&C's.

I am also amused with the "no preset spending limit" term. What that really means is that the bank can impose whatever spending limit it wishes, whenever it likes, for whatever reason or no reason, and the bank is under no obligation to even disclose the limit to the cardholder. What's funny is that they then market that as a customer benefit. HA! Flyertalk has recent reports of attempted charges being rejected due to over limit on cardholders who had never even run a balance and had routinely charged higher cost purchases. I would much rather have a card that tells me my limit and how much is left at any given time.


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 1, 2009)

rogers55 said:


> I have noticed that Chase has been going strictly by the rules on the Amtrak credit card these days.
> In the past I could go $1,000 over the limit and they didn't care as long as it was paid down by the end of the month.
> 
> This month I was $31 over and they cut me off.
> ...



Rogers,

Hate to bring this thread back from the dead, but I'd like to hopefully help you out with your question. I use my AGR Master card as my check card to rack up the points, and I've been burned by the lack of credit at times. Depending on how long you've had the card, you can usually ask for a credit limit increase from Chase. I've upped my limit from 3k to 5k with a simple email, and as recently as Friday increased my credit limit on a different Chase card from 3k to 8k. If I were you, I'd ask or email chase to request the increase. Note that those two cards are the only credit cards I have, so you may see different results if you've got many credit cards.


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## jis (Mar 1, 2009)

mrsyeltzin said:


> Depending on how long you've had the card, you can usually ask for a credit limit increase from Chase. I've upped my limit from 3k to 5k with a simple email, and as recently as Friday increased my credit limit on a different Chase card from 3k to 8k. If I were you, I'd ask or email chase to request the increase. Note that those two cards are the only credit cards I have, so you may see different results if you've got many credit cards.


Frankly I wish they'd stop raising my credit limit for unknown reasons. As it is they are at astronomical levels that I will never charge upto, since as a matter of principle I will not charge anything that I cannot pay off in the same payment cycle. But those bums keep raising my limit endlessly. Very puzzling indeed


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## Ryan (Mar 1, 2009)

You can also ask for a limit decrease (although having a low credit utilization ratio can really help your credit score).

(and as an update, my card was approved, and I'm happily piling up the points!)


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## PRR 60 (Mar 1, 2009)

jis said:


> Frankly I wish they'd stop raising my credit limit for unknown reasons. As it is they are at astronomical levels that I will never charge upto, since as a matter of principle I will not charge anything that I cannot pay off in the same payment cycle. But those bums keep raising my limit endlessly. Very puzzling indeed


But, jis, they like you! Well, at least they think you're a good credit risk, so the raised your limit in the hope that someday you will use all of it, then not pay monthly, and start paying mega-interest. Just keep disappointing them by paying the balance monthly.


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 1, 2009)

jis said:


> mrsyeltzin said:
> 
> 
> > Depending on how long you've had the card, you can usually ask for a credit limit increase from Chase. I've upped my limit from 3k to 5k with a simple email, and as recently as Friday increased my credit limit on a different Chase card from 3k to 8k. If I were you, I'd ask or email chase to request the increase. Note that those two cards are the only credit cards I have, so you may see different results if you've got many credit cards.
> ...



I know what you mean. This happened to me with a Bank of America card before I closed it (I hate them with a passion). I have a friend with a 25k limit on a CC and it's a little insane if you ask me. Too many temptations, I mean you can buy a car outright with that kind of credit.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 1, 2009)

mrsyeltzin said:


> I know what you mean. This happened to me with a Bank of America card before I closed it (I hate them with a passion). I have a friend with a 25k limit on a CC and it's a little insane if you ask me. Too many temptations, I mean you can buy a car outright with that kind of credit.


and how would you like to pay for your brand new corvette. cash or credit. :lol:


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 1, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> mrsyeltzin said:
> 
> 
> > I know what you mean. This happened to me with a Bank of America card before I closed it (I hate them with a passion). I have a friend with a 25k limit on a CC and it's a little insane if you ask me. Too many temptations, I mean you can buy a car outright with that kind of credit.
> ...



credit, please. and take 5 cents off the purchase because i brought my reusable eco bag to put the accessories in.


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## the_traveler (Mar 1, 2009)

jis said:


> Frankly I wish they'd stop raising my credit limit for unknown reasons. As it is they are at astronomical levels that I will never charge upto, since as a matter of principle I will not charge anything that I cannot pay off in the same payment cycle. But those bums keep raising my limit endlessly. Very puzzling indeed


But there's no rule that says you have to use it! 

Many times, my average monthly bill is under $1,000 but I'm still glad for the higher limit. Just last month, I had many purchases (for house repairs and refurbishing - including a big screen TV) that pushed me near that "high" limit (of 8K). But also that same month, I paid my American Express bill - which had a grand balance of $1.17!  (And I think that AX credit limit is something over 15K!)


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 2, 2009)

what are the chances that chase will approve me in September when i try again. tried in November didn't have enough credit account was only a month old. i don't write checks just have my debit card.


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## jackal (Mar 2, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> what are the chances that chase will approve me in September when i try again. tried in November didn't have enough credit account was only a month old. i don't write checks just have my debit card.


Do you have anything that is helping you build a credit history? A checking account (with or without checks or with or without a debit card) won't do anything. You need to have a loan or some other thing that is reportable to the credit bureaus--a secured credit card, a car loan, even student loans--that is helping build your credit score. Otherwise, you can apply every month until you're blue in the face and you'll never get approved.

If you don't have anything and your parents or others won't cosign for you, go to your local bank or credit union and ask about a secured credit card. You'll need to plop down some amount--usually $500 or so--as a guarantee to the bank (it'll earn interest in a savings account), and then you'll receive a credit card (yes, a real credit card, with a line of credit) for an amount either equal to or slightly less than what you put down as a deposit. After six months or so of that, you should be able to either apply for a card with another company or convert the secured card into a regular card and receive your guarantee back.

It may take a bit longer than six months to get enough of a credit history to where Chase will give you the AGR card (its requirements are probably a bit higher because it is available only in the Platinum and World classes, which are the upper echelon of MasterCards. Six months after I got my first secured card, I applied for the Alaska Airlines Visa Platinum card but was only approved for the basic Classic card. Since the AGR card is not (AFAIK) offered in a basic level of card, you may not be able to qualify for another year or so.


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 2, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> what are the chances that chase will approve me in September when i try again. tried in November didn't have enough credit account was only a month old. i don't write checks just have my debit card.



This happened to me as well when I first opened my AGR Mastercard - I got the card, realized 3k wasnt enough, and requested a higher line of credit which was denied. I would guess you have to wait about 6 months and like jackal says, use it. They approved you for x amount of credit when you opened the account, so I think you'd need to show why you can be trusted with more credit before they go approving you for a higher line.


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 2, 2009)

jackal said:


> It may take a bit longer than six months to get enough of a credit history to where Chase will give you the AGR card (its requirements are probably a bit higher because it is available only in the Platinum and World classes, which are the upper echelon of MasterCards. Six months after I got my first secured card, I applied for the Alaska Airlines Visa Platinum card but was only approved for the basic Classic card. Since the AGR card is not (AFAIK) offered in a basic level of card, you may not be able to qualify for another year or so.


My card doesn't say Platinum or World anywhere on it - how can I tell if it's one of them?


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## stlouielady (Mar 2, 2009)

KISS_ALIVE said:


> what are the chances that chase will approve me in September when i try again. tried in November didn't have enough credit account was only a month old. i don't write checks just have my debit card.


Here's a tip I was given many years ago, when I first started applying for credit. Go to a bank, credit union, etc, and secure a loan (with a co-signer if necessary) that you do not really need. Don't spend it; put it into a savings account, etc; somewhere that you won't touch it, but can still withdraw the monthly amount to make the payments. Make the payments as required, and, that will help establish a credit history. You do earn a little bit of interest on the amount in the savings account (granted, not MUCH), but obviously not enough to pay the interest from the loan. However, I look at that as the 'cost of doing business'. Depending on the interest rate and terms on the loan, you can always make a few monthly payments, and then pay it off early and save some of these costs. After successfully paying off the loan, you should now have a successful borrowing and repayment history. Just make sure you don't spend the money earmarked for repaying the loan!

Good luck; I just thought I'd offer a suggestion that has worked for several people that I know....


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## the_traveler (Mar 2, 2009)

mrsyeltzin said:


> My card doesn't say Platinum or World anywhere on it - how can I tell if it's one of them?


I'm not sure if they are all the same (location), but mine says in the bottom right corner "MasterCard" (with the symbol) and right below it "World" - it is a World MasterCard!


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## mrsyeltzin (Mar 2, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> mrsyeltzin said:
> 
> 
> > My card doesn't say Platinum or World anywhere on it - how can I tell if it's one of them?
> ...


Nope, no World for me. Doesn't say platinum anywhere either, and the website didn't provide me any more information. Guess the AGR cards come in regular flavors too.


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## jackal (Mar 4, 2009)

mrsyeltzin said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > mrsyeltzin said:
> ...


I could be mistaken. However, this is among the terms and conditions at the card info page on the Chase website (same thing on the AGR website):



> You will first be considered for a World card. If you do not qualify for that product, you will automatically be considered for a Platinum card, which has different benefits and credit availability. Certain restrictions, limitations, and exclusions apply. Once your account is opened, please see your Guide to Benefits for details.


Seems like it is only offered in two variants: World and Platinum. I suspect if there are no markings on your card, it is of the Platinum variety. There could be an unmentioned basic version, though.

To KISS_ALIVE: You may wish to try applying for a "student card." These may have lower credit requirements for qualification, though if you have absolutely no credit, they may still deny you (and a secured card or an unneeded co-signed loan, as stlouielady suggested, will be the only way to go). You can start your search here--some of the cards that turn up are offered by Chase, which may actually make your transition to an AGR card easier, since they will already have experience with you as a cardholder.


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## amtrakwolverine (Mar 4, 2009)

student won't work. you have to be in collage. forget it debt is enough for now.


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## jackal (Mar 4, 2009)

mrsyeltzin said:


> Nope, no World for me. Doesn't say platinum anywhere either, and the website didn't provide me any more information. Guess the AGR cards come in regular flavors too.


Chase's new motto:

We'll Give You the World!*

*Unless we don't like you.


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## wayman (Mar 4, 2009)

PRR 60 said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly I wish they'd stop raising my credit limit for unknown reasons. As it is they are at astronomical levels that I will never charge upto, since as a matter of principle I will not charge anything that I cannot pay off in the same payment cycle. But those bums keep raising my limit endlessly. Very puzzling indeed
> ...


Exactly. Chase just raised my credit limit this month, to an amount I will probably never use in a month. It won't change my spending habits or my paying-the-credit-card-bill habits one bit, so as far as my using the card, having a higher credit limit doesn't matter at all to me. But I'm glad they raised it because as I understand it this will ultimately lead to my having a better "credit rating" which will help with car loans, house loans, etc, down the road. Part of your credit rating is based on the ratio of your "current credit balance" to your "available credit". So if you've currently got a $2000 balance on a credit card with a $5000 limit, that's a ratio of 2/5; if you've got the same $2000 balance but your credit limit was raised to $10000, that's a ratio of 1/5. And that lower ratio helps raise your credit rating.


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## Ryan (Mar 4, 2009)

Be careful there, as there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Sometimes you'll have trouble getting approved if you have a massive amount of unused credit available to you lenders will not want to extend you more (the though being if you utilized all the credit available to you, you wouldn't be able to afford paying the bills on all of it).


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## sechs (Mar 5, 2009)

As long as your finances justify it, credit that you don't use is good. And, the more the better.

The problem currently is people having been extended credit that their finances didn't justify. So, there's more credit out than there really should be, and it's with risky folks; that leaves less available for those who might be very good risks but didn't ask before.


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