# Roomette and Bedroom Pricing



## jnismith (Feb 13, 2015)

After reading one of the discussions yesterday about " low buckets becoming available". I thought I would look at my trip and see if anything cheaper was available. They weren't.

But what mystified me was that on the Cardinal, a Bedroom was showing at $589 and a Roomette at $600.

I understand how the demand pricing works but it seems ridiculous that you can get a bigger room for a cheaper price.

Any thoughts?


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## SarahZ (Feb 13, 2015)

jnismith said:


> After reading one of the discussions yesterday about " low buckets becoming available". I thought I would look at my trip and see if anything cheaper was available. They weren't.
> 
> But what mystified me was that on the Cardinal, a Bedroom was showing at $589 and a Roomette at $600.
> 
> ...


My first thought is: book it! 

Every so often, you'll see this quirk when a bunch of people buy roomettes but nobody books bedrooms (or a few people cancel their bedroom reservations). Not many people think to check back to see if prices have dropped, so you can sometimes score a really good deal like this.

We did a similar thing when returning from our trip last Thanksgiving. I checked bedroom prices a few weeks before our trip, and they were around $600. Roomettes were right around the same price, so I switched our reservation to a bedroom.


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## MrFSS (Feb 13, 2015)

jnismith said:


> I understand how the demand pricing works but it seems ridiculous that you can get a bigger room for a cheaper price.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Bedrooms and roomettes each have their own bucket pricing. They aren't all combined in one category, Sleeping Rooms.


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## andersone (Feb 13, 2015)

sleeper space available on the Card?


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## Railroad Bill (Feb 13, 2015)

This happens quite often on the Capitol Ltd as the short distance encourages more people into roomettes than bedrooms. We have book bedrooms for less or perhaps a few dollars more than a roomette during the off season.


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 13, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> Roomettes were right around the same price, so *I switched our reservation to a bedroom.*


And would someone do that by phoning Amtrak and '_modifying_' the reservation? Thanks


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## niemi24s (Feb 13, 2015)

All this talk about "buckets" when it comes to Amtrak fares seems to me nothing more than a handy way to explain something that's essentially unexplainable. I've done occasional fare studies over the last few years, mostly for a Superliner Bedroom for two seniors on the Empire Builder from CHI to SEA. The most recent one (still in progress) looked at fares for each day through the end of May 2015 at weekly (or so) intervals beginning on 18 January 2015. Fares (rounded to the nearest $10) were, so far, $830, $1090, $1350, $1680 and $1970, each recorded on a calendar for an "eyeball" analysis. Here's what I've found so far based on four searches:

• The low fare of $830 disappeared on the 42d day which was 28 Feb 2015

• The high fare of $1970 appeared on the 13th day which was 31 Jan 2015 and remained though the end of May 2015, becoming more frequent as Summer approached.

• The only discernible (to me, at least) pattern in the fares was that, so far, each Wednesday in May had the high $1970 fare each of the four times I've looked thus far.

• The X in Amtraks "Only X Rooms Available At This Price" seemed to make little or no difference.

• For some travel dates, the fare (low, intermediate or high) was the same every time I checked

• For other travel dates, the fares could either: increase; increase then decrease; decrease then increase; or decrease.

Perhaps the "bucket" system explains it all, but if so it's probably beyond my comprehension. As far as I can tell it seems the only bucket involved in Amtrak fare setting "system" is the one from which the blind rabid monkey picks the ball with the "fare of the day" printed on it.

If there's a moral to all my blather it may be: be flexible when it comes to travel start date; start looking early; decide on a date early; book early; re-check often after booking.


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## jnismith (Feb 13, 2015)

Thanks Sarah and everyone, I guess the answer is that the bedroom and roomette prices are not linked. I do think however that the prices fluctuate too much. Would be much simpler if there was just a flat rate. Or would that be too simple?


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## Ryan (Feb 13, 2015)

niemi24s said:


> Perhaps the "bucket" system explains it all, but if so it's probably beyond my comprehension.


It does. Your analysis seems to be missing the fact that people are buying tickets, and Amtrak is actively moving seats and rooms between buckets to maximize revenue.


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## zephyr17 (Feb 13, 2015)

jnismith said:


> Thanks Sarah and everyone, I guess the answer is that the bedroom and roomette prices are not linked. I do think however that the prices fluctuate too much. Would be much simpler if there was just a flat rate. Or would that be too simple?


It is yield management to maximize revenue, similar to the airlines. Roomettes, bedrooms, handicapped rooms, and coach seats are all separate inventories and each of those inventories' price points are determined by the demand for that inventory. How well that is done is open to question, but that is the theory. Amtrak has gotten quite a bit better at it over the last couple of years and old rules like buying early right after the inventory is opened 11 months out would almost always get you low bucket don't really apply any more.

It occasionally gives counter-intuitive results. Once, one week before departure on the Empire Builder, I got a low-bucket roomette that was actually cheaper than the coach fare, which was close to sold out and so near its highest bucket. But these kind of occurrences are pretty rare and edge cases that you don't build the entire system around.


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## SarahZ (Feb 13, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > Roomettes were right around the same price, so *I switched our reservation to a bedroom.*
> ...


No. I simply canceled the reservation and created a new one.
If I had been switching from one roomette to another (such as lower to upper), and roomette prices had gone up, I would have had to modify it to retain the price I'd paid originally. When the price is lower, though, you can simply cancel and rebook.

You have to be careful, though. If you have other legs on that same reservation, their prices may have changed (higher), so canceling and rebooking would actually cost you. In that case, you would want to speak with a reservations agent.


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## the_traveler (Feb 13, 2015)

The same thing sometimes happens with airline seats or rewards. Once I was looking for award seats for someone to go to Europe.

Everyone thinks coach is less, so they only look at/book coach award tickets - right? :huh: Coach was the "high" level = 240,000 miles. (Many seats booked.) First Class was the "low" level = 100,000 miles. (Few seats booked.)


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## crabby_appleton1950 (Feb 13, 2015)

SarahZ said:


> No. I simply canceled the reservation and created a new one.


Can a single passenger book a bedroom, to get a larger room, instead of a roomette?


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## AmtrakBlue (Feb 13, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > No. I simply canceled the reservation and created a new one.
> ...


Yes


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## zephyr17 (Feb 13, 2015)

crabby_appleton1950 said:


> SarahZ said:
> 
> 
> > No. I simply canceled the reservation and created a new one.
> ...


Yep, Amtrak prices them like hotel rooms, you pay the accomodation charge, you get the room. Doesn't matter how many rail fares are beneath it.


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## niemi24s (Feb 13, 2015)

Just completed the fifth session of gathering fares for the trip outlined in Post #7.which gave me a grand total of 468 consecutive checks for all the travel dates through the end of March 2015. Of all these checks:

• 61 of the 468 (13%) saw the fare increase

• 373 of the 468 (80%) saw no change in the fare

• 34 of the 468 (7%) saw the fare decrease

However, room availability was either not posted by Amtrak or not recorded for at least one of the checks in 186 of those pairs, leaving 282 that did have room availability data. Of all these remaining checks:

• 28 of the 282 (10%) saw the fare increase in which

♦ 10 the available rooms increased

♦ 16 the available rooms remained the same and

♦ 2 the available rooms decreased

• 241 of the 282 (85%) saw the fare remain the same in which

♦ 8 the available rooms increased

♦ 212 the available rooms remained the same and

♦ 21 the available rooms decreased

• 13 of the 282 (5%) saw the fare decrease, in which

♦ 1 the available rooms increased

♦ 10 the available rooms remained the same and

♦ 2 the available rooms decreased

But if the 5 buckets for this route during this 4 month period each has a certain quantity of bedrooms associated with each fare, then perhaps the above figures may not mean too much - except perhaps for percentages for fares increasing, staying the same and decreasing. Maximizing profits is a noble goal for the stockholders (us folks). I just wish there was a way to figure it out as easily as it is for VIA Rail in Canada: for the same accommodations for the wife and I (sleeper with toilet) from Toronto to Vancouver the only change in the fare I could find was a 6% discount if booked more than about 5 weeks in advance. Two buckets with a pretty simple relation between the two.

I've had enough of this amateur analysis of Amtrak fares - and I'm sure most of you are sick of all the numbers.

Q: Is there a limit to the number of times a member can edit a post? (I tried asking a site administrator and the email got bounced back as undeliverable.)


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## jnismith (Feb 14, 2015)

jnismith said:


> After reading one of the discussions yesterday about " low buckets becoming available". I thought I would look at my trip and see if anything cheaper was available. They weren't.
> 
> But what mystified me was that on the Cardinal, a Bedroom was showing at $589 and a Roomette at $600.
> 
> ...


I looked again and the roomette price has reduced again to $527. It really does pay to keep watching (though this is still way above the price I paid a few months ago)


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## jnismith (Feb 14, 2015)

And for my trip on the CZ, the price of a family bedroom is now $882 compared to a roomette at $896. A strange model!


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## PupfosterG (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks to Amsnag, I just modified my multi-city trip, upgraded from roomette on CONO to bedroom and received a $95 eVoucher!


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## WindyCityTexan (Mar 26, 2015)

I booked my roomette on the Cap Ltd from CHI to CUM about two weeks ago for tomorrow evening's departure. I originally paid $423 for my roomette, not the highest price but also not the lowest. I've been checking prices and inventory daily. Last Saturday a roomette came available for $319, so I called, got changed to the new room, and was issued a $104 e-Voucher. Today I looked again, and there were a couple of roomettes for $319, and a bedroom for $340. So now I'm in a bedroom with a wider bed and my own facilities instead of a roomette, and I still have an $83 credit. Crazy.


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## niemi24s (Mar 26, 2015)

WindyCityTexan said:


> I booked my roomette on the Cap Ltd from CHI to CUM about two weeks ago for tomorrow evening's departure. I originally paid $423 for my roomette, not the highest price but also not the lowest. I've been checking prices and inventory daily. Last Saturday a roomette came available for $319, so I called, got changed to the new room, and was issued a $104 e-Voucher. Today I looked again, and there were a couple of roomettes for $319, and a bedroom for $340. So now I'm in a bedroom with a wider bed and my own facilities instead of a roomette, and I still have an $83 credit. Crazy.


If you think that's crazy, how about this one? It's for two seniors in a Superliner bedroom on the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle departing on 8 April 2015. I've checked this fare at three to seven day intervals since 19 Jan 2015 and the fares have been (rounded to the nearest $100): $1300; $2000; $1700; $1300; $1700; $2000; $1700; $1300; and just now [ta-da] $800. And there may have been fare changes I missed.

How 'bout them apples?


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## KmH (Mar 26, 2015)

WindyCityTexan said:


> I've been checking prices and inventory daily.


How do you check inventory?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 26, 2015)

KmH said:


> WindyCityTexan said:
> 
> 
> > I've been checking prices and inventory daily.
> ...


Put in 8 for # of people your booking for.


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## niemi24s (Mar 26, 2015)

All putting in for 8 people does for me is inform me I'm booking four roomettes or bedrooms - or more, if I opt for more in the drop down gizmo.

Maybe by "inventory" he means the X in the "Only X Rooms At This Price" that usually ops up above the room type?

Or maybe he's figured out a clever way to find out the _total_ number of rooms available - not just the number in the particular...uh...bucket.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 26, 2015)

If there are only 2 roomettes available, then you would know because 8 people can't fit into two roomettes.


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## niemi24s (Mar 26, 2015)

Thanks for explaining that. Wonder if there were, say, only two roomettes shown available for the posted bucket fare, would booking for _more_ than four people give a peek at the fare for the next bucket? Hmm-m-m. One way to find out is to try it (if I can remember what I just wrote!)

Edit: Tried it and it seemed to do just that - show the next bucket price. Found there were 2 roomettes available on the EB from CHI to SEA on 30 Mar 2015.

• For 2 seniors the basic fare was $295.80 (or $147.90 each) plus $243.00 for 1 roomette = $538.80

• For 4 seniors the basic fare was $591.60 (or $147.90 each) plus $486 for 2 roomettes (or $243.00 each) = $1077.60

• For 6 seniors the basic fare was $887.40 (or $147.90 each) plus $1062.00 for 3 roomettes (or $1062.00 - $486.00 = $576.00 for the one additional roomette - instead of the $243.00 for each of the previous ones.

So did doing this _actually_ reveal the next roomette bucket fare? Or did it merely conk the Amtrak fare selection monkey on the head with a monkey wrench?


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## chakk (Mar 26, 2015)

If you use Amsnag for a large window of potential dates (30 is the maximum), you will often see up to 4 different prices posted, depending on the day, for each room type. That would tell you the current prices for 4 buckets.


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## niemi24s (Mar 26, 2015)

I've been checking fares the hard way so long I'm just stuck in a rut. Must get familiar with Amsnag to save time. Time for what, I don't know, but have heard saving it is good thing.


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## PupfosterG (Mar 27, 2015)

Also sign up for fare watch. It will send you an email when there is a change in the fare price. I recently upgraded from roomette to a bedroom. First time in bedroom. Great space in daytime configuration. Very limited floor space with bed made. Loved private bath. While in-route on my first leg, I decide to seek out an upgrade from coach on my second leg. Only room available last minute was family bedroom, $209 from CHI to KCY. Using eVoucher I had cut that about in half. What an enormous amount of space for one person. I mentioned to car attendant I'd switch with someone who might need the larger space, but he didn't seem to grasp what I was offering. First time in lower level room. Ride was fantastic.


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## PupfosterG (Mar 27, 2015)

http://biketrain.net/amsnag/watch/watch.php


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## Bus Nut (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm pricing a trip on CS and it's $298 or 260 if I forgo business class on the Surfliner. It's 15000 points if I do a redemption.

6 of one half a dozen of the other?


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## willem (Mar 27, 2015)

> Must get familiar with Amsnag to save time. Time for what, I don't know, but have heard saving it is good thing.


When I was younger, I saved time. Now, I spend time--on Amtrak, when I travel.


> I'm pricing a trip on CS and it's $298 or 260 if I forgo business class on the Surfliner. It's 15000 points if I do a redemption.
> 
> 6 of one half a dozen of the other?


I would not redeem points at $0.02 per point. I buy them at that price.


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 27, 2015)

One thing I noticed on a recent series of fare searches for the SL was that several "buckets" appeared to only hold a single room. The website said only one room left and the price went up as soon as I bought my ticket and it continued to claim there was only one room left in the next bucket. Every few days the price would increase but always with _only one room left_ at that price. If you select two rooms the price would increase. If you selected three rooms it would increase again and so on. That's not something I've ever seen before.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm beginning to think that there is a gremlin working in the IT dept at Amtrak. h34r: :help:


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