# Does Bombardier still have the means to produce Budd cars?



## Amfleeter (Aug 10, 2015)

Let's say, just as a hypothetical, Amtrak, VIA, Iowa Pacific, or some other entity wants cars identical to Budds built to modern regs for some reason. Maybe VIA has a bad accident and is short of stock or Iowa Pacific decides they want to keep a Streamliner fleet instead of a modern one when they expand.

Does Bombardier have the practical means to still produce Budd cars updated to modern construction standards and ADA requirements?


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## jis (Aug 10, 2015)

How would a car updated to modern construction standards still be a Budd car? Philosophically, what is it that defines a Car to be a Budd Car as opposed to something else?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 10, 2015)

Built by Budd period!

Similar to Pullman who built the Superliner Is that most railfans don't consider true Pullman cars! YMMV


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## BCL (Aug 10, 2015)

I suppose they can do almost anything to spec if there's enough money in it. Here's the factsheet for their Plattsburgh plant.

http://us.bombardier.com/us/library/documents/Plattsburgh.pdf

I'm pretty sure the BiLevel is probably their #1 product, but they list production of all sorts of heavy-rail, light-rail, and subway systems. The last bullet point for their historical milestones is 2010 where they state the ability to weld stainless steel car bodies.


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## afigg (Aug 10, 2015)

Amfleeter said:


> Let's say, just as a hypothetical, Amtrak, VIA, Iowa Pacific, or some other entity wants cars identical to Budds built to modern regs for some reason. Maybe VIA has a bad accident and is short of stock or Iowa Pacific decides they want to keep a Streamliner fleet instead of a modern one when they expand.


Why would any of them be interested in building new cars identical to an obsolete design? Yea, sure, if someone was willing to however much money it took, they could find a company to build replicas, although that might involve considerable expense in building the tooling needed. But it would take far longer to build replicas of old Budd designs than, say, contact Siemens and place an order for X hundred single level coach cars as a follow-on to the cars Siemens will be building for All Aboard Florida.


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## jis (Aug 10, 2015)

Notice that on the occasions when VIA has actually bought significant number of new cars, none of them were Budd replicas.


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## Anderson (Aug 10, 2015)

jis said:


> Notice that on the occasions when VIA has actually bought significant number of new cars, none of them were Budd replicas.


To be fair, the Rens were a target of opportunity when the Nightstar got canned (and they're not terribly beloved cars at that). The other purchase, the LRCs, was setting up to be done at the same time as Amtrak looked at the LRCs and IIRC they were probably supposed to be operable at higher speeds than they ever ran at.

That being said...functionally, other than looking cool, what would the difference be between a "Budd" car and a fluted-sided Siemens-built car? My best guess is that there's a feeling of superior engineering, but even if you trot out and minimally tweak the old designs nothing says you'll get the same sort of runs-for-60-years-if-you-keep-it-up work. You might also end up with Amcans (call the Can-Cans?)...


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## Dutchrailnut (Aug 10, 2015)

the success of RDC was its simplicity, these days you could no longer build a railcar with slow running bus motors about tier 0 minus 6 in EPA compliance , a 74 volt electric system and get airco and air compressor and electric parts to be all fed by battery plus chargers and still have parts redundancy, these days commuters want two ac units no diesel smoke in cars, outlets at every seat etc etc - etc even Colorado diesel car found it impossible and only a few units were sold but not w3ith expected success DRC claimed it would have... I think people are starting to call Budd coaches as Budd cars but they are not, the name Budd car was a Budd RDC patent.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 10, 2015)

Things aren't built to last as long as they used to be.


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## CHamilton (Aug 12, 2015)

The Budd Company’s brochure for the Rail Diesel Car (RDC)


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 12, 2015)

The original question seemed to involve recreating cars built by the Budd Co. such as coaches, sleepers, diners, domes, lounges, etc. I believe Bombardier owns the patents for the cars, so I guess it could be done, although they would have to include modern safety standards as well as electrical heat instead of steam. They would probably cost a lot of money and probably won't last as long as the original cars since nothing is built very well today.

That being said, outside of historic recreation, what would be the point? This is no longer the 1940's or 1950's. Time and technology always move forward, not backwards.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 12, 2015)

I really don't see the point of it. Recreating Budd's dome cars might have a case due to its unmatched appeal and travel experience.


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## BCL (Aug 13, 2015)

MikefromCrete said:


> The original question seemed to involve recreating cars built by the Budd Co. such as coaches, sleepers, diners, domes, lounges, etc. I believe Bombardier owns the patents for the cars, so I guess it could be done, although they would have to include modern safety standards as well as electrical heat instead of steam. They would probably cost a lot of money and probably won't last as long as the original cars since nothing is built very well today.
> 
> That being said, outside of historic recreation, what would be the point? This is no longer the 1940's or 1950's. Time and technology always move forward, not backwards.


Patents will be expired. Now they probably have access to the original plans and should have no issue with design copyrights.


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## Paul CHI (Aug 17, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I really don't see the point of it. Recreating Budd's dome cars might have a case due to its unmatched appeal and travel experience.


The VIA Park Car is a gem - spent most of our time there when we rode Vancouver - Toronto in January 2014.


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