# Seriously? $1.50? (AGR credit card fee)



## Everydaymatters (Oct 16, 2017)

Two of my insurance bills are automatically charged to my AGR account. I always pay it off when I get the bill.

My latest bill shows a $1.50 "mininum interest charge". I have never had that happen on any of my other credit cards and I find it kind of, well, tacky and cheap! We all know they charge the merchant and also charge us _if_ we don't pay the balance each month. But I pay in full every month.

If I didn't have enough points to take a short run into Chicago, I'd just stop using the AGR card.

Anyone else have this happen?


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## jebr (Oct 16, 2017)

I've never had it happen. I'd call Bank of America and see what happened; maybe a payment didn't apply properly or the balance somehow wasn't registered as truly paid in full. I've also usually had decent luck getting late fees waived (assuming it's not a common occurrence) by asking nicely for them - assuming it's a one off they may be willing to credit back the interest fee as well if asked.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 16, 2017)

Some action/inaction/delay created an interest charging event. The amount of interest to be charged landed below $1.50 so it was raised to the minimum interest charge as per the terms of the card. The bigger problem is that the interest charge itself is likely to create yet another another minimum interest event, which will in turn create another charge the month after that, and so on. Credit card accounts are not designed to give away benefits for nothing. They are designed to watch for even the most minor of mistakes and misunderstandings which they can eventually turn into a chain of never ending fees and fines.


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## Ryan (Oct 16, 2017)

It’s right there in the credit card disclosure:


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## jebr (Oct 16, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> They are designed to watch for even the most minor of mistakes and misunderstandings which they can eventually turn into a chain of never ending fees and fines.


While I won't disagree on the harm credit cards can do, I've never had an instance where paying in full the next month (minus any courtesy credits given) has resulted in ongoing fees. They've also included the fee in the statement amount on the next bill (so it wasn't hidden somewhere where it'd be hard to figure out what to pay to avoid interest.)

Some fees are definitely very punitive and if income is tight the unexpected fees can cause cascading issues, but I disagree that they're designed to blow up a minor mistake into endless fees if someone generally pays attention to their bills, especially if they contact the card issuer and remedy the mistake. Maybe I've just been extra lucky with credit cards, though.


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## Everydaymatters (Oct 16, 2017)

Ryan said:


> It’s right there in the credit card disclosure:
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> 
> ...


Ryan, I couldn't open it, but I will check my statement


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## the_traveler (Oct 16, 2017)

It’s possible it could be something “simple” like your payment did not apply correctly or on time. As Jeb said, I would call BoA and ask the reason and ask for it to be removed.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 16, 2017)

jebr said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
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> > They are designed to watch for even the most minor of mistakes and misunderstandings which they can eventually turn into a chain of never ending fees and fines.
> ...


It's true that if you're always on top of your finances you can usually fix minor problems and keep things kosher with a timely phone call or certified letter. But the US banking system is a long con, not a short snatch. The idea isn't to burn you in the short term but to wait for you to slip up and miss something later on down the road. Maybe you're arrested or lose your job. Maybe a close family member dies unexpectedly. Maybe a tragic event or a chemical imbalance causes you to become depressed and despondent. Maybe you suffer a medical emergency or an adversarial divorce.

It doesn't even have to be a negative thing. Maybe you fall in love and lose track of time and space. Maybe you simply grow too old to keep a sharp eye on your account activity. Anything that eventually takes your attention away from from your finances can become a ready catalyst for a debilitating second act. Even when you have caring family members trying to help you by closing your accounts the banks will sometimes fight tooth and nail to prevent it. Once upon a time if a young family made some big mistakes they could declare bankruptcy and try to rebuild their lives again, but these days personal bankruptcy laws have been lobbied into near irrelevance.


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## Everydaymatters (Oct 16, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> jebr said:
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> > Devil's Advocate said:
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That's a lot of Maybe's. At one time or another, I've had some, if not all, of those things happen. But I have never missed a payment and I have never been late paying a bill. So, at least in my case, I wouldn't anticipate anything would stop me from paying my bills. On time.


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## the_traveler (Oct 16, 2017)

What I do to make certain about the payment posting is that on the BoA website, I signed up to have it paid directly from my bank via ACH. If you authorize the payment by (I think) 7 pm, it will post to your account that night.

Having the BoA app, many times as soon as I see it closed, I pay it off. So many times, it is paid a few days before I receive the bill in the mail.


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## Dave Van (Oct 16, 2017)

Welcome to BoA


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## willem (Oct 17, 2017)

the_traveler said:


> What I do to make certain about the payment posting is that on the BoA website, I signed up to have it paid directly from my bank via ACH. If you authorize the payment by (I think) 7 pm, it will post to your account that night.
> 
> Having the BoA app, many times as soon as I see it closed, I pay it off. So many times, it is paid a few days before I receive the bill in the mail.


At first, I thought you meant that payments get made automatically. Then it seemed that you set up a mechanism but need to trigger it each month.

All my credit cards (and utilities) allow me to set up automatic payments. The bank (or utility) takes the money from the designated account on the due date, without action by me. In the case of credit cards, I can designate that the payment should be the entire balance due. (There are other options, but I always choose entire balance.)

Long ago, when I first set up one of these automatic payments, I was assured that I could alter the payment if there was a charge that I disputed or if I just didn't want to pay the full amount. I have never tested this alleged capability.

Iowa City even offered a $1 credit each month on its water bill if the customer paid this way, because it simplified things so much for the city. (Contrast this with the state of Minnesota, which charges a fee to pay by electronic funds transfer on its web site, thus pushing me to pay by check, which requires a state employee or contractor to handle a piece of paper. Fools!)

In short, this system has worked for me, and I believe it beats writing a check or remembering to visit a web site to trigger a payment. My payments are all made as late as possible, so I get the float on the money (not that that has been worth anything since 2008).


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## Everydaymatters (Oct 17, 2017)

Wow! What a racket! I called BOA and I was told that back in July I paid all except $40. In August I paid IN FULL.

For the September statement, I paid all except the $1.50, which they charged for not paying in full back in July. I honestly didn't notice the $1.50 and paid everything except the $1.50.

So because in September I didn't pay the $1.50 interest charged for the July statement, in my October statement I was charged the $1.50 because I didn't pay the $1.50 charged because I didn't pay off the entire balance in July.

OK. Now I get it. Do you?

Anyhow, she was very nice, I was very nice, we were both laughing, but she still couldn't get rid of the $1.50. She did try. There you have it!


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 17, 2017)

Generally once you become involved in a Giant Company's Computer Maze, it takes an act of Congress to get it straightened out.

Companies that empower their Customer Service employees to handle situations like this ( rare) are a pleasure to do business with!

Glad you got it settled Betty, it always pays to check statements closely and to pay the Full Amount when due!

I had a similar situation with American Express several years ago over 14 Cents!, but they were able to fix it easily over the phone!


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## Ryan (Oct 17, 2017)

This isn’t “slamming”, this is failure to pay the full amount due in September and correctly getting charged interest for it.

I’m not sure how you pay “all but the $1.50”, when you want to pay in full, you look at the bill and pay the big number at the bottom.


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## Everydaymatters (Oct 17, 2017)

Ryan said:


> This isn’t “slamming”, this is failure to pay the full amount due in September and correctly getting charged interest for it.
> 
> I’m not sure how you pay “all but the $1.50”, when you want to pay in full, you look at the bill and pay the big number at the bottom.


You're right, Ryan. I have no defense. I knew exactly what I had charged and that's what I paid in September. But I still think it's tacky, $1.50! Geesh!

As Jim said, "Companies that empower their customer service employees to handle situations like this are a pleasure to do business with."


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## AmtrakBlue (Oct 17, 2017)

Everydaymatters said:


> Ryan said:
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> > This isn’t “slamming”, this is failure to pay the full amount due in September and correctly getting charged interest for it.
> ...


It would probably cost the company more than $1.50 to make the adjustment. Time is money.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 17, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Everydaymatters said:
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> > Ryan said:
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Yeah, I'm sure they wrote their own rules in a way that constantly loses them money.


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## jebr (Oct 17, 2017)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Everydaymatters said:
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> > Ryan said:
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Considering she's already calling in and talking to the representative, if the representative is empowered to credit it back the additional time to apply the credit is likely no more than the time it takes to argue with someone who's upset over the fee. Not to mention the risk of losing the customer over the fee (it costs a lot to attract a customer, and minor steps to keep a customer are almost certainly cheaper than trying to win a new customer.) Even if a customer isn't paying interest or an annual fee, they're still generating swipe fee revenue for the bank, and a $1.50 waiver to keep a customer satisfied (especially since it's not a transaction and just a fee) is well below the revenue they're likely generating for the bank.

It's possible that Bank of America makes it intentionally difficult to apply credits; it wouldn't surprise me, actually (I've never had to contact them regarding credits,) but the bank isn't going to go broke over a $1.50 fee reversal.


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## SarahZ (Oct 17, 2017)

To be fair, it's not a "fee"; it's interest charged on the $40 she didn't pay off when paying for that charge cycle.

Had she truly paid in full when paying the bill for July, there would not have been an interest charge.


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## the_traveler (Oct 17, 2017)

Devil said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
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> > Everydaymatters said:
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I once made a purchase from (I think it was) LL Bean. I order to get points/miles for this purchase, I bought gift cards from GiftCertificates.com - but you could only get them in multiples of $25. So I bought $100 worth. My 2 items were $49.95 each or $99.90 total.
They sent me a refund check for 10¢!  I bet it cost more in salaries and postage than 10¢!


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## Ryan (Oct 17, 2017)

SarahZ said:


> To be fair, it's not a "fee"; it's interest charged on the $40 she didn't pay off when paying for that charge cycle.
> 
> Had she truly paid in full when paying the bill for July, there would not have been an interest charge.


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## willem (Oct 18, 2017)

jebr said:


> [...] it costs a lot to attract a customer, and minor steps to keep a customer are almost certainly cheaper than trying to win a new customer.


That's why I have trouble understanding why businesses, especially banks, will offer significant incentives to new customers but treat existing customers poorly. I assume some manager's bonus is based on number of new customers and not based on number of departing customers, but that begs the question.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2017)

willem said:


> jebr said:
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> > [...] it costs a lot to attract a customer, and minor steps to keep a customer are almost certainly cheaper than trying to win a new customer.
> ...


One could surmise that it follows from the general "throwaway" mindset that rules everyone's interaction with any kind of item of commerce in the current culture. Just like perfectly good and serviceable furniture is put out on the curb to be replaced by newer shinier ones....


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 18, 2017)

Another example of "The Big Lie":

New and Improved!!!


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2017)

These type of situations occur across the board in the credit card industry and the brand or affinity group really doesn't matter much. It is a function of the issuing bank.


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## jis (Oct 18, 2017)

Yes. It seems to me that we are beating a dead horse to pulp here. There is really nothing unusual that happened. If a bill is not paid in full an interest is charged. that is part of the standard contract. There is no dramatic lie involved here of any sort. Mountain out of a mole hill I am afraid.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 18, 2017)

jis said:


> Yes. It seems to me that we are beating a dead horse to pulp here. There is really nothing unusual that happened. If a bill is not paid in full an interest is charged. that is part of the standard contract. There is no dramatic lie involved here of any sort. Mountain out of a mole hill I am afraid.


Making a mountain out of a molehill is such an apt phrase. The US consumer credit market is built on the hope of eventually turning minor mistakes and missteps into mountains of crippling debt. Just like the mobster loan sharks of yesteryear. Personally, I believe that just because you write usury level interest rates into a formal contract doesn't suddenly make them reasonable or unimportant. I've never missed a payment myself, but I have seen the repercussions for those who did, and it's not pretty.


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## PVD (Oct 18, 2017)

Pay on time and you won't pay anything. Very different with a loanshark. Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions?


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 18, 2017)

PVD said:


> Pay on time and you won't pay anything. Very different with a loanshark. Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions?


I paid every bill on time and still got stung for thousands of dollars in fraud the bank charged and then refused to make whole. But hey, I still have my legs so I guess everything is just peachy. <_<


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## jis (Oct 18, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> jis said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. It seems to me that we are beating a dead horse to pulp here. There is really nothing unusual that happened. If a bill is not paid in full an interest is charged. that is part of the standard contract. There is no dramatic lie involved here of any sort. Mountain out of a mole hill I am afraid.
> ...


I agree it is not reasonable. So other than bitching and venting about it here, what do you propose that we do about it?

Yup, I have missed an occasional payment, simply because I forgot, and the consequence each time was that I had to pay a late fee, which itself is unreasonable. But full payment was the end of that episode, and life went on as usual after that.

At some point I made a choice that the convenience of using a credit card was worth the annoyances associates with it, and not much has changed since then both in the department of conveniences and annoyances. So life goes on.


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## PVD (Oct 19, 2017)

There is a big difference between fraud (not your fault, shouldn't be your problem) and late fees or interest because of not paying fully or on time.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2017)

PVD said:


> There is a big difference between fraud (not your fault, shouldn't be your problem) and late fees or interest because of not paying fully or on time.


Absolutely. Whether the contract one entered into is fair or not is a separate discussion from whether the terms of the contract were followed.


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## Devil's Advocate (Oct 19, 2017)

jis said:


> PVD said:
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> > There is a *big difference* between fraud (not your fault, shouldn't be your problem) and late fees or interest because of not paying fully or on time.
> ...


The terms and conditions for each outcome are written by the same people to benefit the same party. They write the rules, they choose how to apply the rules, and we suffer the consequences. There's no section of the contract that says "Here's the one special part where we promise not to screw with you just because we hold all the cards." You can attempt to take them to court if you want, but you'll spend at least as much (if not more) trying to recover your money with no assurance you'll get anything back. Even if you win you'll simply use that money to pay off your legal bills and end up right back where you started. Do you think I was born a bitter old man? It's only when we finally see how the sausage is made that we lose our appetite for false equivalency. Credit accounts come with a massive power imbalance, that's why they also come with tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of "free" monkey points to distract you from the extra risk you're casually accepting.


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## jis (Oct 19, 2017)

Devil's Advocate said:


> jis said:
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> > PVD said:
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My question to you still remains, what exactly do you propose that we do about it other than bitching and moaning here? We are guaranteed to see a long rant from you on these subjects when they arise several time, and that is fine. but how is that productive in any way? Of course if that is what takes for you to keep from going postal, I guess that is a positive.


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## PVD (Oct 19, 2017)

Yes, credit card contracts are slanted towards the issuer.Probably the most egregious thing happening today is the proliferation of arbitration and anti class action clauses. But again, contracts are not unilateral, they require the agreement of both parties, I can say no and drop any card I want. I do not have to accept the terms.


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## me_little_me (Oct 19, 2017)

It's BoA. I pay electronically by setting up each payment I make with my Credit Union. I always set the payments to be on the day due (or the Friday before the weekend). In all the years, I NEVER had a payment not paid on time until BoA and there were well over two thousand of them. BoA claimed a payment was late but refused to provide me the time it arrived. The Credit Union's payer said it was sent electronically and arrived on time even giving me a statement that their records showed it and got on the phone with BoA with me. Multiple BoA reps and managers refused to give me any info until I wrote to headquarters. They still claimed it was late but did finally give me the time they claimed it arrived. However, they finally waived the $65 charges. Since then, I set up all epayments to arrive 2 days early for all my accounts. Every single one is credited 2 days ahead. I think BoA screwed up and were unwilling to own up to it.

I dumped my fee card. I'd dump the other in a heartbeat when it is not to my Amtrak advantage to keep them. Dealing with Chase was a dream as compared to BoA.


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## neroden (Oct 23, 2017)

jebr said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
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> > They are designed to watch for even the most minor of mistakes and misunderstandings which they can eventually turn into a chain of never ending fees and fines.
> ...


You've been extra lucky. Both me and my father have been hit by the "MBNA fraud" where the credit card company pretends not to receive your payment when they get it in order to charge interest and penalties -- my father was actually hit by it with MBNA, back when it was first orignated, and I was hit by Chase on the former Amtrak card. MBNA pulled this off by managing to get their own branch of the post office so that they could lie about receipt dates; Chase did the same thing. Anyway, MBNA was eventually criminally convicted for doing this systematically, but banks still do it.

When I escalated with Chase they backed off -- they didn't admit guilt but they immediately refunded all the phony charges. MBNA did the same thing with my father. This is the behavior of a guilty company: they know most people won't escalate their complaints, so they refund the fraudulently obtained money to the people who *do* spend a lot of time and effort to push their complaints -- this avoids lawsuits and they still make money off the rest of the frauds. It works for them.

I've found that cards with annual fees usually play nicer with their customers -- perhaps because they have some income stream even if we pay off our bill each month. But not always.

Interesting to see that me_little_me got hit with the *electronic* version of the MBNA fraud at BoA -- so it's still one of banksters' standard frauds. As usual, escalating sufficiently causes them to back off.

If you don't know all the standard frauds that the banksters will pull, it's not a good idea to get involved with the banksters in any way. Even if you do know them, keep your real money elsewhere, at an institution which doesn't pull this sort of fraud. (I have money at a local bank, a local credit union, and one of only three reputable large stockbrokers in the US -- there are only three reputable large stockbrokers, and each of them has known problems, but mine is only known for problems around death and inheritance issues -- which is why my heirs have enough money elsewhere to get those straightened out.)


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## PVD (Oct 23, 2017)

Probably the most egregious thing happening today is the proliferation of arbitration and anti class action clauses.

Incidents such as those is exactly why I made that comment a few posts back........


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## Bob Dylan (Oct 23, 2017)

PVD said:


> Probably the most egregious thing happening today is the proliferation of arbitration and anti class action clauses.
> 
> Incidents such as those is exactly why I made that comment a few posts back........


This!!!!


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## seat38a (Nov 2, 2017)

It always surprises me on this forum how the "victims" always tend to be the same handful of people.


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## PVD (Nov 10, 2017)

And exactly how is that different from life in general?


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