# Greyhound Brings Down the Axe (September/October 2015)



## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 29, 2015)

Greyhound has brought down the axe, or perhaps the bardiche in this case, on many routes through the US and Canada. At first I thought only the Reno-Salt Lake City had been cut. Turns out this is a full-fledged campaign of discontinuing schedules.

The cuts include, but are not limited to:


Reno-Salt Lake City, DC
Dallas-Los Angeles, RD by 1x Daily*
Richmond-Atlanta, RD by 2x Daily
Nashville-Montgomery, DC SB, RD NB by 1x Daily
New York City-Indianapolis, DC
Richmond-Tampa, DC SB, RD NB by 1x Daily
Atlanta-Orlando, RD by at least 1x Daily
Toronto-Calgary, WB DC, EB RD by 1x Daily**
Calgary-Lethbridge, RD from Daily to 3x Weekly
Calgary-Cranbrook, DC
Vancouver-Nanaimo, DC
Victoria-Campbell River, DC
Victoria-Port Hardy, DC

*The reduced schedule was shifted to the San Antonio-Los Angeles route, replacing a San Antonio-El Paso schedule, leaving an overall reduction on the Dallas-El Paso segment.

**The segment between Sudbury and Calgary is now served only 1x Daily. The westbound Trans-Canada service transfers at Winnipeg; the eastbound transfers at Calgary.

Legend

DC=Route discontinued

RD=Route reduced

NB=Northbound

SB=Southbound

EB=Eastbound

WB=Westbound

Feel free to ask questions.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 29, 2015)

Additionally, Greyhound has reduced service on many other routes with the end of the Summer Timetable. This is normal; service is usually temporary increased in the summer and decreased back afterwards.


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## City of Miami (Sep 30, 2015)

I HATE IT that GH adds on $5 to ticket prices for 'taxes&fees.' There is no sales tax. The feds stopped airlines from doing this some yrs ago. There is no way to avoid this ruse. My ticket to Richmond, offered at $16, is really $21.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 30, 2015)

It's $2.50 per-person, per segment, last I checked. Round-trip it's $5. Yeah, I don't like it either. But it is a separate topic from route cuts, so please PM me if you wish to discuss fees further.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 30, 2015)

Last Greyhound ticket I purchased ( on-line)had a $2.50 "Facility Fee" added to the ticket, whatever the heck that is??!!!

Mega Bus charges a Base Fare similar to Rail Fare on Amtrak, then a Reservation Fee if you pick a Reserved Seat, and then charges $1.50 "Handling Fee"!!

I think they learned this from the Airlines!!!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 1, 2015)

Again, I don't like it either, but the major route cuts are the issue at hand here. This is very bad news for Greyhound.


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## Caesar La Rock (Oct 1, 2015)

I'd never thought I would ever see these cuts happen, but wow.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 1, 2015)

Well, now you have. I'm still struggling to figure out why Greyhound is cutting so many routes. Also, last week, GLI reduced their fleet by over 100 buses. GLC has also greatly reduced their fleet by retiring their remaining G4500s. I don't know if GLC still has any G4500s in service.


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## Caesar La Rock (Oct 1, 2015)

Megabus dominates the Orlando to Atlanta route. With a lot of positive feedback from Megabus in the South, this is pretty much killing Greyhound on that route. How many G4500s did Greyhound have before these cuts started to happen?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 1, 2015)

But the Atlanta-Orlando wasn't really cut that much. Only one pair was cut. And on that, Greyhound's DL3s are easily more comfortable than Megabus' TD925s.

Most of the routes that were cut didn't compete with either Amtrak, VIA Rail, or Megabus. Some did compete with Megabus, but Megabus isn't expanding either, and Greyhound has been able to hold off or even defeat Megabus in many markets.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 1, 2015)

UPDATE: These G4500s were confirmed recently retired and presumably scrapped (as they are not for sale):

7039 7058 7064 7102 7150 7117 7234 7239 7252 60680 60684

All of the ex-Americanos G4500s have been retired with the exception of #60741 and #60682. #60682 has been confirmed a Blue G.

All of the ex-Vermont Transit G4500s have been retired except for #40205 which is now a Blue G.

5 of the TNM&O G4500s remain; these are #30511, #30515, #30516, #30522, and #30523. All 5 are presumably Blue G's.

2 ex-Carolina G4500s remain, #86794 and #86795; both are presumably Blue G4500s.

The rest of the remaining G4500s are all GLI originals. GLI is down to 161 total G4500s, of which are least 101 are Blue G4500s, 24 more are possibly Blue G's, and at least 18 are White G4500s.

Edit: Wait, GLI still operates a single ex-Americanos Winnipeg-built G4500, #60688. So they have 162 G4500s. This is the last Winnipeg-built G4500 in service.

Also, Americanos still shows 28 active G4500s on their roster, including #60741, #60682, and #60688. No clue what's going on.


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## cirdan (Oct 2, 2015)

In terms of Megabus expansion, does this leave combined levels of service more or less the same? Or is it a reduction even if you look at the combined service?


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 2, 2015)

Megabus hasn't expanded much recently, and you have to realize that most of these routes did not compete with Amtrak, VIA Rail, or Megabus. Also, Megabus and Greyhound are different animals and shouldn't be put in the same basket.

I'll just use Reno-Salt Lake City as an example. No competitor on this route took any action that resulted in the discontinuance. The overall situation had been the same, yet Greyhound suddenly cuts the route. So I believe the cut of this route is solely due to GLI's incompetence.

This isn't the only example. But do remember that I mean GLI (Greyhound US), rather than GLC (Greyhound Canada). GLC has been cutting routes for a long time and the situation is a lot more complicated.


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## NativeSon5859 (Oct 2, 2015)

I saw a white G4500 departing New Orleans today on the 1030a local service to Mobile and Atlanta.

Also, about a month back, I was on a white G4500 between NO and Lafayette. The coach continued to Houston. It had the black leather seats, but it was beat up inside and out. On the other hand I got a nice DL3 on the run to Houma last week.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 2, 2015)

I checked BusTracker for today's 1562 New Orleans-Atlanta Local. It's white G #7037, based out of Dallas. I remember seeing a picture of it beat-to-hell in the Dallas Maintenance Center.

Apparently Greyhound cannibalized the inoperable G4500s for parts to keep the remaining white G's running while using stockpiled parts for the Blue G's. I saw a picture of a White G door cut off. Man, I really wish I hadn't run out of time in Dallas! I'd have likes to see the Greyhound yard.

GLI's installing vinyl/faux-leather seats on the remaining white G's. They're using them up to the last mile. GLC has apparently mothballed all their G4500s.


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## railiner (Oct 3, 2015)

Very sad....

I just took a look at an October, 1959 timetable....In the Scenicruiser/Vistaliner era....

WGL ran 6 trips a day between Reno and Salt Lake City, plus an additional two trips from Reno east, one to Winnemucca and Boise, the other to Wells and Pocatello....

And Continental Trailways ran two trips a day from Reno to Salt Lake City. And just imagine how many more trips may have run during the previous summer peak TT....

And there was the Nevada Central-Lewis Bros. Stage connection via Ely.

And several WP and SP trains....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 3, 2015)

Lamentably, it is down to a single daily Reno-Denver and Amtrak's single daily CZ.

Another major loss must be on the Trans-Canada Highway between Toronto and Calgary. That is down to a single daily Greyhound and all CP Rail service is gone. It wasn't long ago that GLC still ran Calgary-Regina, Calgary-Medicine Hat, and Calgary-Banff regional service out of their massive Calgary (CGY) hub.


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## railiner (Oct 3, 2015)

Looking at an August, 1971 timetable....in the MC-6 Supercruiser era....

GLC ran:11 trips from Calgary to Banff, with 8 thru to Vancouver, 7 trips to Regina and East, 13 trips to Edmonton and North , 8 trips south to Lethbridge or Waterton Lakes, with one to the Montana border connection with Intermountain, and a few other assorted local routes....like Alsask.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 3, 2015)

Let's compare to the current timetable:


4x Daily Calgary-Vancouver via Kicking Horse
1x Daily Calgary-Kelowna via Crowsnest
54x Weekly Calgary-Edmonton
3x Weekly Calgary-Lethbridge
1x Daily Calgary-Winnipeg-Toronto
So basically, ASMs to the west have been reduced 42%, to the north by 31%, to the south reduced by 79%, and to the east by 83%. Massive reductions to the south and east of Calgary. And 100% rail service gone.

Do you know how many flights Western flew between RNO and SLC back in the day? Today there's only 2 flights, both Delta A319s.


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## Anderson (Oct 3, 2015)

On the airline front, I know at least _some_ of that is down to the hub-and-spoke system. Let's be honest, before jet airliners took over the idea of flying SLC-LAX-RNO or SLC-SFO-RNO would have been laughable (especially since the odds are pretty good ht SLC-SFO would have had an intermediate stop in RNO!).

Setting aside allegations of incompetence, does anyone know what the load/yield factors looked like on the cut routes? Competition or not, it is entirely possible that they were looking at really lousy numbers on the reduced frequencies.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 3, 2015)

Such information is not publically available, but, by my own observation on the Reno-Salt Lake City route, the buses had many empty seats, more so than in 2013. Exactly how much, I cannot say. Reno-Denver was quite popular when I rode it in 2014, though loads seem to have dropped off. Last time I saw it at SLC, only a few passengers got on before it pulled out for Denver. I recognized the driver as the one who had said he planted corn as a hobby. He drives to Steamboat Springs, overnights at the Holiday Inn, and comes back the next day. After each two days of driving, he gets one day off. So he seems quite happy with his job.

I'm sure Greyhound could have run both the Reno-SLC and Reno-Denver daily schedules profitably, but either made too many mistakes or decided to cut one so that the other would get higher load factors.

If anyone has a Western Airlines timetable, I'd greatly appreciate it, as they must have flown extensively in the region where I live.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 4, 2015)

Greyhound claims revenues are down 6.2% with a major drop on "long-haul" trips, says they will continue to "actively manage timetables" (cut service): http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/13801304.FirstGroup_feels_impact_of_low_oil_prices_in_North_American_business/?ref=fbshr.

The stupid fools at Greyhound blame it on low fuel prices without realizing how much passengers hate the Painful Premiers. Rather than obsess over cutting schedules, they should obsess over equipment and seats.

Since Greyhound's operating margin was 7%, continued dropping like this means Greyhound would be losing money if they didn't cut service.


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