# Englewood flyover progress



## Steve4031

Video was taken on 7/21/15.


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## afigg

There is nothing about the Englewood Flyover that is HSR as it simply separates two freight/passenger lines. But since your video did not make it into your post, someone has been posting a series of videos on Youtube taken from what I figure is a passing Metra train of work on the flyover in roughly monthly intervals. The most recent was taken on July 1, 2014: Metra rock island Englewood flyover construction update.


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## Steve4031

You are correct. This should have been posted in commuter forum.


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## MetraUPWest

True it isn't HSR- but the flyover will allow us to do 79mph over Englewood instead of the current 40mph over the diamond now. It will help with delays to the NS and Amtrak (the Michigan trains cross the Rock at Englewood) but it was primarily constructed to help the NS out. If the weather is kind we might be using the flyover late 2014.

The St. Louis HSR trains as well as the Texas Eagle will be routed over the Rock instead of the CN sometime after work on the flyover and Joliet station is completed- probably by this time next year.


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## Ryan

Steve4031 said:


> Video was taken on 7/21/*15*.





afigg said:


> But since your video did not make it into your post


That's because it's...

FROM THE FUTURE!!!


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## Eric S

MetraUPWest said:


> True it isn't HSR- but the flyover will allow us to do 79mph over Englewood instead of the current 40mph over the diamond now. It will help with delays to the NS and Amtrak (the Michigan trains cross the Rock at Englewood) but it was primarily constructed to help the NS out. If the weather is kind we might be using the flyover late 2014.
> 
> The St. Louis HSR trains as well as the Texas Eagle will be routed over the Rock instead of the CN sometime after work on the flyover and Joliet station is completed- probably by this time next year.


I thought that there was far more (currently unfunded) work required before Amtrak shifts from the CN to RI routes between CHI and JOL.


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## MetraUPWest

They found funding- that work is being done right now. I just laid some of the ballast on the new 2nd track last month. A new Joliet station is being built (the new Metra Rock Island platform is almost done), and they are building a higher speed connection from the Rock Island to the UP at UD. The new connection is almost complete as well.

All that's left is a new connection from the Air Line at 16th Street to the Rock Island and Amtrak will be free to roam the Rock. The state wants the Lincolns off the CN as soon as possible.


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## Eric S

Yes, the Joliet station and Englewood flyover work is funded and underway. But all of the IDOT presentations from earlier this year stated that the CHI-JOL portion was in one of the study phases, not in the construction phase. I understand that the study had identified the RI as the preferred CHI-JOL route. One part that was still under study was how to connect from CUS to the RI.

Can you provide a link to anything that states that the trains will be rerouted as early as next year? All I can find are the IDOT presentations selecting the RI as the preferred route and pointing out that more study is needed and funding has to be identified before any changes would take place between CHI and JOL.


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## MetraUPWest

I don't have a link to any sites. I had an Amtrak road foreman ride with me on a rush hour train 2 months ago to get aquainted with the Rock, and a good friend I worked with at UP who now is an engineer on the Lincoln Service told me so as well, and there's a new switch sitting at the 16th Street crossing.

There's not really anything to construct. You can already connect to CUS via the Air Line which we do frequently to transfer locomotives and rebuilt coaches from 47th Street to CUS. You have to shove to get up there, but the Saluki already does that move anyhow so that's not too big a deal.


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## Eric S

Sure, you can "connect" the way the CoNO and Carbondale trains "connect" to CUS, but that would seem to run counter to the idea of reducing travel times.


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## MetraUPWest

A new connection is part of the Rock proposal that would allow trains out of CUS to go directly on the Air Line without having to shove like they do now. I'm sure if the funding comes it will be built. I still feel that travel times would be reduced even with the current layout. You have little to no freight in the way on the Rock. That alone would make up for it.

As far as the Flyover goes, the structure for the double track section is going up quickly now, and the bridge for the 3rd main is starting to take form.


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## neroden

MetraUPWest said:


> True it isn't HSR- but the flyover will allow us to do 79mph over Englewood instead of the current 40mph over the diamond now.


More importantly, Amtrak usually stops dead for minutes at the diamond to wait for one (sometimes two) Metra trains; the same happens to NS freight train. (Metra has control and priority at the diamonds) This will therefore cut minutes off the Amtrak runs, as well as off of NS's freight runs. It should really ease congestion-related delays, particularly when Amtrak arrives "out of slot".
The latest video from Audiofyl makes it looks like most of the civil engineering is done, though there's still some to do on the south side. The official schedule has the project done in January, but at this rate I could imagine getting the Metra line onto the flyover by November.



> The St. Louis HSR trains as well as the Texas Eagle will be routed over the Rock instead of the CN sometime after work on the flyover and Joliet station is completed- probably by this time next year.


Regarding the rerouting of the St. Louis trains, the current Joliet-Chicago route on CN has the problem that there are *four* major at-grade crossings with other freight lines. The original CREATE plan involved major grade separations at all four locations. However, since CN basically pulled out of CREATE, the state has been looking into less concrete-intensive options which involve giving less money to CN. Accomodating Amtrak on the UP/CN line at Joliet is also expensive (the Joliet station master plan goes to great efforts to do this), while accomodating Amtrak on the Rock Island line is cheap.

I could definitely see the route via the Rock Island line being faster -- or at least, *more reliable* -- even with the backtracking needed from Union Station to the St. Charles Air Line.


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## afigg

Audiofyl has posted a new video of the progress on the Englewood Flyover: Metra Rock Island Englewood Flyover Construction update 8/6/14. Still a lot of landfill to complete on what I think is the southern end (near the start of the video), but they appear to have started to lay a track on the northern end of the flyover.


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## MisterUptempo

MetraUPWest said:


> The St. Louis HSR trains as well as the Texas Eagle will be routed over the Rock instead of the CN sometime after work on the flyover and Joliet station is completed- probably by this time next year.


This brings up two questions-

First, is there a specified time that Amtrak has to notify the public about a change of routing? While Chicago-Union Station and Joliet-Union Station will continue to be used, the Summit station would lose their stop on the Lincoln Service if the Rock Island was used.

Second, with all this talk about re-routing the CHI-JOL segment ahead of schedule, have you heard anything, MetraUPWest, about whether they would designate an existing Metra station to serve as the suburban stop on the route(if so, which one?), or whether they would just run express CHI-JOL? The decision on a suburban station has been part of the Tier II EIS, which won't be complete until some time next year.


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## MetraUPWest

I have not heard which stop will be the suburban stop on the Rock. I know there definitely is going to be one. My guess is that it would be Blue Island- the connection to the Rock Island, Beverly branch, and the Metra Electric there would be very beneficial. That's just my guess, though.


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## MattW

I believe the requirement for terminating service is 180 days of notice.

Blue Island seems like a good suburban stop to me as well.


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## MisterUptempo

MattW said:


> I believe the requirement for terminating service is 180 days of notice.
> 
> Blue Island seems like a good suburban stop to me as well.


When I attended a public meeting this last winter about the project, I asked a rep there about the suburban station.

He said that Blue Island had the best transit options, but said that a parking lot, particularly a long-term lot, might need to be "more secure". He mentioned that Midlothian and Oak Forest were the most accessible by car, but that parking could be a problem, especially in Midlothian, and that Tinley Park-80th Ave. had the most to offer in terms of parking and facilities, but that the location was less than ideal.


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## chicagorr

a reliable witness reports seeing a work train run over the new flyover today. no engine, just a crane and cars. so at least some of the new track has been installed


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## MetraUPWest

^Yes, there are now 2 tracks halfway across the flyover.


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## afigg

Audiofyl has posted a new August 20 video of the flyover work: Metra Rock Island Englewood Flyover Construction Update 8/20/14. Looks like it is getting close to having a complete base for the new tracks from end to end.


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## neroden

MisterUptempo said:


> MetraUPWest said:
> 
> 
> 
> The St. Louis HSR trains as well as the Texas Eagle will be routed over the Rock instead of the CN sometime after work on the flyover and Joliet station is completed- probably by this time next year.
> 
> 
> 
> This brings up two questions-
> 
> First, is there a specified time that Amtrak has to notify the public about a change of routing? While Chicago-Union Station and Joliet-Union Station will continue to be used, the Summit station would lose their stop on the Lincoln Service if the Rock Island was used.
Click to expand...

For a state-funded corridor, there are no federal requirements; service can be changed as soon as the state contract with Amtrak changes. There may be state requirements, I don't know.
(P.S. I checked the most recent version of the US Code at Cornell's LII to verify this. LII's a great operation, needs donations.)


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## jis

Moreover, recently STB has said in no uncertain terms that it neither cares nor wants to have any jurisdiction over what state funded rail operations do or don;t do. Which gives the state run operations a huge lot of freedom about how they go about starting, changing and also stopping route operations.


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## afigg

There was a short update on the flyover in a Sun-Times article on plans to improve Chicago Union Station to deal with the crowds: Major changes discussed to expand, renew Union Station.



> Joe Shacter, director of public and intermodal transportation for the Illinois Department of Transportation, *said the new Englewood Flyover at 63rd Street in the Englewood neighborhood is slated to be tested in about three weeks*; planning is underway to bring 110-mph train service between Chicago and Detroit; studies are being made for a high-speed route from Chicago to Danville, Ill.; and the high-speed rail project being built between Chicago and St. Louis is moving ahead, with the halfway point being reached about 16 months from now.


High-speed route from Chicago to Danville, IL?? Well, anyway, appears that tracks are being or have been put down on the flyover.


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## MetraUPWest

They are really plugging along on the flyover. The track is nearly all laid out. Lots of ballast was dumped yesterday. I'm told Pat Quinn wants the project done and the flyover in use before the gubernatorial election.

In regards to Joliet Union Station- the Rock Island trains will be using the new platform should of the UD crossing starting on the 22nd. I haven't heard if this applies to the Heritage as well.


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## neroden

MetraUPWest said:


> They are really plugging along on the flyover. The track is nearly all laid out. Lots of ballast was dumped yesterday. I'm told Pat Quinn wants the project done and the flyover in use before the gubernatorial election.
> 
> In regards to Joliet Union Station- the Rock Island trains will be using the new platform should of the UD crossing starting on the 22nd. I haven't heard if this applies to the Heritage as well.


It can't actually use that platform, because the Heritage Corridor is coming in off the other line... are the new Heritage Corridor platforms even under construction? They were going to have a tunnel under the tracks on the north side of the crossing.

I don't remember the staging plan for the Joliet Regional Multimodal Transportation Center, or how much of it is funded.

Do you know?

P.S. Last version I found (from 2012) said the Rock Island platform would be done and the trains moved before they even *start* on the Heritage Corridor side; Heritage Corridor would get a temporary platform somewhere to the north during construction. I still can't find final diagrams of the planned track-and-platform layout.


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## MetraUPWest

Sorry, I should've been a bit more specific. There is a temporary platform that has been built for the Heritage on the side opposite of the current station (east side of the tracks). I'm not sure if the Heritage will start using the temporary platform when the Rock Island trains start using the new Rock platform on the 22nd or if they'll start using it at a later date, but it is there, and it's done. You enter it at street level right near the entrance to Silver Cross Field.

Construction for a permanent platform for the Heritage will start after the Rock station is fully completed as you mentioned.

I haven't come across any recent renderings of the new stations. They recently encountered a snag and have redesing basically the entire project. Why? In all of the original renditions UD Tower was demolished. They have come to discover that the basement of UD serves as part of the retaining wall holding up the tracks. A new wall would have to be built, and Joliet doesn't want to spend the money, so at least part of the tower will stay. They have not yet decided if they will just leave the basement and tear down the upper level of the tower, or just leave the entire tower intact.

They are considering turning the Tower into a museum- complete with the interlocking machine- and opening it to the public. I really hope they do. I've been up there a few times. It's an awesome place. A real step back in time. It would be really cool if the public could see it, too. You can get some amazing shots of trains, too ;-).


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## MetraUPWest

They're cutting out the old track 2 as we speak. Track 2 on the Flyover will he open in time for the rush hour Monday morning, and track 1 will be cut in next weekend. After the 2 tracks are cut in the old mains will be removed and construction on the 3rd track flyover will start.


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## neroden

Wow! Thanks for the info on both projects.

I'm betting NS will replace the diamonds with straight rail ASAP (they're very high-maintenance) as soon as Metra traffic has moved onto the flyover, so the diamonds could be history by the first week of October. It'll be really interesting to see whether this makes a difference in Amtrak schedule reliability.

There used to be these routine delays of 10+ minutes on the final westbound Chicago approach right before Englewood, though lately that has been swamped by delays caused by trackwork elsewhere. NS has claimed that this is the biggest chokepoint on their entire network, so maybe the dispatchers will be able to make things move more fluidly without it.

As for Joliet, what I've really been trying to figure out is:

(1) where the pedestrian underpasses are going to run when the station is finished: the buses are going in the SW corner and the train platforms in the NE corner, so they're certainly going to be heavily used underpasses;

(2) how the platforms are going to be laid out relative to the tracks: some renditions show side platforms for Heritage Corridor, some show a center platform; (personally, I'd prefer side platforms as it would be easier to restore service along the BNSF route if it proved necessary)

(3) how this will accomodate the planned High Speed Rail service, which would use the curve from UP to Rock Island: would it back up into the Rock Island platform or what? Would extra platforms be built?

(4) how layovers by Heritage Corridor trains are going to be handled: or do all trains have to stay in downtown Chicago overnight with outbound trains early in the morning?

I think it would be wonderful if they made UD Tower into a museum open to the public. It looks to me like you could run a platform for Heritage Corridor straight north of it (though one bridge widening would be needed over US 30), and then wrap a walkway around the back of the tower at track/platform level to connect to the Rock Island platform. (Footbridges are cheaper than other types of bridges... less weight to carry.)


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## MikefromCrete

Heritage Corridor trains overnight (and weekend) at Metra's Joliet yard on the Rock Island. They pull south of the crossing and use the connecting track to the Rock. Metra's yard is two-three blocks east of Joliet Union Station.


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## MetraUPWest

The diamonds and both "old" Rock island mains will be removed once the other track of the Flyover is cut in next weekend.

As far as Joliet goes, here's a link to the newest rendition of the station plans-

http://www.cityofjoliet.info/index.aspx?page=596

(1)New Street will be closed off as a thru street and the pedestrian underpass will be where New Street currently is.

(2) The HC/Amtrak Temporary platform is on the side serving the UP track on the opposite side of the current station. The permanent HC platform will be constructed between the 2 UP mains and accessed via tunnels.

(3) When Amtrak moves onto the Rock a second platform will be built along the aide of the wye track that connects the Rock to the UP for Amtrak's exclusive use.

(4) The HC equipment will be stored in the Joliet coach yard just like they are now. The HC trains shove out od the yard and around the wye onto the UP, then pull into their platform. This will remain unchanged.

UD Tower will be spared and serve as a museum. It was discovered that the foundation of the tower also serves as part of the retaining wall holding up the tracks so it's cheaper to keep it than construct a whole new wall. The new permanent Joliet station will be built behind UD and connect to both the HC and Rock Island platforms as well as the Amtrak platform on the Rock when it is built, so no foot bridge connecting the Rock and HC will be necessary.


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## chicagorr

As mentioned, it looks like they put one of the tracks in service over the weekend as on the way to work this morning I saw a southbound metra rock island train head over the new flyover..good news!i was unaware,did you say there will be three tracks eventually?? seems kind an expensive to build a bridge for a siding or is there a plan to triple track a longer segment?


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## MetraUPWest

The long term plan is for the Rock to be triple track from around 75th Street all the way downtown. They will need the triple track when they move the Southwest Service into Lasalle Street Station. The connection will be around 74th Street somewhere- I don't remember an exact location. That's why they need another Flyover bridge.


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## chicagorr

well that makes sense...thanks. have to go for a ride to check it out sometime soon


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## neroden

Thanks for all the info and the link to the *current* Joliet plans!

So I guess the new station will sort of wrap around the back of UD tower. That doesn't exactly retain the historical context of the tower, but is probably the right thing to do anyway.

The conversion of New Street for the pedestrian underpass is sensible. But it's a bit of a roundabout -- and ugly -- walk via the sidewalk underpass on Michigan St./Mayor Art Schultz Dr. Not exactly a seamless connection. Hopefully they can pretty that underpass up, keep the mud thrown by cars from splashing on the pedestrians, maybe put up something to keep the rain off. Here's what it looks like now:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=joliet,+il&hl=en&ll=41.524066,-88.078852&spn=0.001446,0.001845&sll=42.746632,-75.770041&sspn=5.80852,7.558594&hnear=Joliet,+Will+County,+Illinois&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.524083,-88.078672&panoid=GNZ88WhrV_iL0FWzMtfxfw&cbp=12,347.7,,0,9.03

Regarding Englewood Flyover, I'm impressed that it is going to be pretty much open next week.


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## neroden

MetraUPWest said:


> The long term plan is for the Rock to be triple track from around 75th Street all the way downtown. They will need the triple track when they move the Southwest Service into Lasalle Street Station. The connection will be around 74th Street somewhere- I don't remember an exact location. That's why they need another Flyover bridge.


The connection for the SW Service is part of this project: http://www.75thcip.org/

But if I remember correctly (which I may not) the triple tracking on the Rock Island Line is eventually planned to extend south of there to Gresham (where, of course, the line separates into four tracks, Beverly Branch and Mainline). The bridges are all wide enough in that section.


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## neroden

Sooooo.... "next weekend" is over. Has the last Metra train run across the diamonds? Have the diamonds been removed? I'm not on-site, and Audiofyl hasn't put up a new video lately, so I'm curious...


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## MikefromCrete

I drove under the overpass on the Dan Ryan yesterday and saw M/W equipment on the new bridge, but there's been no announcement about the completion of the project in the media. With election day rapidly approaching, I expect there will be a big to-do about the opening.


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## afigg

neroden said:


> Sooooo.... "next weekend" is over. Has the last Metra train run across the diamonds? Have the diamonds been removed? I'm not on-site, and Audiofyl hasn't put up a new video lately, so I'm curious...


Audiofyl posted a new video yesterday, but this one is from the window of a Metra train going _over_ the flyover: Metra Rock Island Englewood Flyover.


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## neroden

That video is a lot of fun, but...

Audiofyl picked a consistent viewpoint for all his (her?) videos; unfortunately, that viewpoint means we're on the northernmost/westernmost track looking north/west and can't see whether any further work is being done. :-(


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## Octave C. Crow

About the Englewood flyover: after the flyover is fully completed, will the existing RI bridge over the expressway remain and a wye track be installed on the SW corner of the existing diamonds? That way if Amtrak ever diverted trains from Saint Louis to the Metra/RI route the Amtrak trains could still have access to Union Station. No crossing on the old level would remain of course.


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## MisterUptempo

MetraUPWest said:


> The diamonds and both "old" Rock island mains will be removed once the other track of the Flyover is cut in next weekend.
> 
> As far as Joliet goes, here's a link to the newest rendition of the station plans-
> 
> http://www.cityofjoliet.info/index.aspx?page=596
> 
> (1)New Street will be closed off as a thru street and the pedestrian underpass will be where New Street currently is.
> 
> (2) The HC/Amtrak Temporary platform is on the side serving the UP track on the opposite side of the current station. The permanent HC platform will be constructed between the 2 UP mains and accessed via tunnels.
> 
> (3) When Amtrak moves onto the Rock a second platform will be built along the aide of the wye track that connects the Rock to the UP for Amtrak's exclusive use.
> 
> (4) The HC equipment will be stored in the Joliet coach yard just like they are now. The HC trains shove out od the yard and around the wye onto the UP, then pull into their platform. This will remain unchanged.
> 
> UD Tower will be spared and serve as a museum. It was discovered that the foundation of the tower also serves as part of the retaining wall holding up the tracks so it's cheaper to keep it than construct a whole new wall. The new permanent Joliet station will be built behind UD and connect to both the HC and Rock Island platforms as well as the Amtrak platform on the Rock when it is built, so no foot bridge connecting the Rock and HC will be necessary.


I know that I'm off-topic on this, considering this about the Flyover, but since Joliet Union Station came up...I took a very quick trip to the station the other day, and took a few shots. I hope to do some more snooping when I get time.

This the eastern end of the new platform, with the heated shelter, stairway and elevator....


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## MisterUptempo

This is the western end of the platform, looking east...






A shot of the back of Tower UD from the western end of the new Rock Island platform. As has been mentioned already, the plans for the train station now call for the station to be built around the back of this tower...






These are the steps constructed for the temporary platform for the Heritage Corridor...






This is the temporary Amtrak office. Behind it, you can see the ramp that leads to the temporary Heritage Corridor platform...


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## MisterUptempo

Now, this puzzles me...Along the far right edge of this picture, as well as the picture from the western end of the new platform, there is a track I've never seen before(admittedly, I've haven't used Joliet station in ages). It looks newly laid. Was that track laid for the eventual transfer of the Lincoln Service/Texas Eagle onto the Rock Island tracks, or is it for use by Heritage Corridor trains to get into the yard immediately east of the Rock Island platform?






As you can see from Google Maps, it wasn't there the last time they looked...






Here is a slide from a Metra presentation(can't recall how far back) that shows a new track would be installed...The track laid would seem to be the aqua line in this shot...


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## Ryan

This might be a silly question, but I haven't been following this very closely.

Why was Union station closed? And why was it closed before the new permanent station was complete?


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## chicagorr

I have heard that as of today the NS dispatcher took over control of the Englewood interlocking from Metra


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## MetraUPWest

Sorry for the lack of updates!!

As is typical in every government project, the 2nd track cutover of the Flyover was delayed by a week. They cut the new track in yesterday. As of now it's not been activated but it will be up and running by tomorrow morning. The original Flyover track had its speed limit raised to 45mph as well. Eventually both tracks will be good for 79!

As far as the new Joliet station goes- yes that is a new wye connection track to the UP. They extended it so thay a Heritage train can now enter or leave the Joliet coach yard with a Rock Island train sitting in the station. It will eventually be a higher speed connection once the switches on the UP main are upgraded as well which will help Amtrak.

Ryan- to answer your questions there are a few reasons. JUS was closed mostly because the UP and BNSF (as well as Amtrak) were tired of getting held up at UD for Metra going across all day long. BNSF also- understandably so- didn't like passengers walking across both its mains to board Amtrak and Heritage Corridor trains. This BNSF line is the busiest intermodal line in the country, and the UD crossing was supposedly the single most congested point on the system.

The main reason we're using the new platform despite not having a station is so that the freight trains can run unabated much sooner. The timing of the new platforms being opened and the upcoming IL gubernatorial election were no accident, either. That same timing applies to the Englewood Flyover as well. Sad but true.


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## neroden

I have to wonder what the original layout of Joliet Union Station was. Originally there would have been an underpass to the original GMO platform, right? They would never have had people walking across the ATSF tracks to get to the GMO platform. When was that underpass closed? And *why*?


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## afigg

Audiofyl posted a new video last week from onboard a Metra train of the flyover looking out the east/south side: Metra Rock Island Englewood Flyover - Looking East. The Metra train was going at a good clip over the flyover.

The political dog and pony show dedication ceremony for the project will be on October 23. Progressive Railroading: CREATE program: 75th Street project moves forward; Englewood Flyover nears dedication. The combined 75th Street improvements project has published its FEIS and received a Record of Decision from the FHWA, so it has cleared a major environmental review and approval hurdle. Lining up the funds for it is going to be a challenge.


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