# unlifted ticket, no points



## jbis (Mar 11, 2014)

AGR Select Executive for three years. Took an Acela trip in Feb and my ticket was never lifted (scanned). I did not receive points and missed out on a trip for the Book 3 Roundtrips and Get 1 Free deal. I was told by an AGR representative that I had to connect with refunds department to get points for the segment...guess who doesn't answer the phone?!? Anyone have any tricks to get my missing points? Have already tried a missing points submission with no success, likely as ticket was never lifted by conductor, Thanks.


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## me_little_me (Mar 11, 2014)

PM "AGR Insider".

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtrak-guest-rewards-399/


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## TinCan782 (Mar 11, 2014)

Several years ago, that happened to us on the Pacific Surfliner. After several weeks, I called AGR and explained the situation. I had the reservation number, etc. and in fact, had the entire paper ticket. We did get the points no problem.

My reservation was made before e-tickets but, the trip was after the change-over. On that trip, the conductor came through the business car and wrote on a piece of paper all of our reservation numbers to supposedly "lift" them!


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## Ryan (Mar 11, 2014)

me_little_me said:


> PM "AGR Insider".
> 
> http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtrak-guest-rewards-399/


We as a forum need to stop making this the default response for everything having to do with AGR just because we happen to know the guy.
This is a simple issue that should be able to be handled by a CSR or Customer relations.

Flooding him with PMs over every little thing lessens his ability to fix the things that really require his horsepower.

He hinted at this in a post the other day, and we need to have a little bit of respect for the guy and let the system to its job where it can.


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## SarahZ (Mar 11, 2014)

RyanS said:


> me_little_me said:
> 
> 
> > PM "AGR Insider".
> ...


Bingo. Not wanting to wait on hold for the proper department is *not* a reason to PM AGR Insider.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 11, 2014)

In this case, the problem is not really with AGR. The problem is with Amtrak. The best resolution is to call the regular Amtrak customer service number and ask for Customer Relations (weekdays only, 9 to 5, more or less). Tell them you rode the train, but the ticket was not scanned and you were labeled a no-show. Ask them to change your ticket status to "lifted." That will trigger your points posting and the credit toward the Buy 3, Get 1 promotion.

I concur about not sending every AGR issue raised here over to AGR Insider at Flyertalk. Flyertalk has several airlines and hotel chains that have official participants, but I not aware of any who are as active as AGR Insider in researching issues and finding resolutions. Most just make announcements and then take cover. As they say, however, no good deed goes unpunished. Poor AGR Insider gets lots of stuff dumped on him that should have gone through regular channels first, and he is too nice to tell them to buzz off. His FT participation is pretty much a sideline activity for him. Like the Paul twins, he was born to assist, but I think it should be a last resort.


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## amamba (Mar 11, 2014)

I hear you guys that going to AGR insider shouldn't be the default response.

But OP called AGR and the didn't help. That sounds insider worthy to me.

I should add that I am incredibly appreciative if the insider posting and helping. Thank you!!!!


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## jimhudson (Mar 11, 2014)

I agree with amamba/the OP tried AGR and got no help! A Post to Flyer Talk/AGR Forum would be the next step/that's why its there and Amtrak has an Insider to help!


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## SarahZ (Mar 11, 2014)

I read it as AGR told them they had to talk to Refunds, and Refunds "isn't answering their phone". That either means they have a hold time or they're closed for the day. That's how I took it, anyway, hence my suggestion to call and wait on hold instead of paging our superhero.


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## AlanB (Mar 11, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> I agree with amamba/the OP tried AGR and got no help! A Post to Flyer Talk/AGR Forum would be the next step/that's why its there and Amtrak has an Insider to help!


AGR has no control over whether or not a ticket got lifted; only Amtrak has control over that. This is an Amtrak problem, not an AGR problem even though the points would eventually hit AGR. AGR Insider, while having a few contacts and channels of communication, cannot force Amtrak to lift the ticket and thereby trigger the points. Only Amtrak can do that.


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## amamba (Mar 12, 2014)

AlanB said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with amamba/the OP tried AGR and got no help! A Post to Flyer Talk/AGR Forum would be the next step/that's why its there and Amtrak has an Insider to help!
> ...


Thank you for the useful information, Alan.


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## tim49424 (Mar 12, 2014)

A passenger who is an AGR member should be proactive and request to have the ticket scanned while on board. In the past, I've done that and the Conductor or A/C were more than happy to do that. That way, I'm guaranteed the ticket gets into the system.


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## Jim G. (Mar 12, 2014)

Last fall I had a couple off tickets that were not scanned and the points posted.


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## Ryan (Mar 12, 2014)

Yes, it's possible your ticket was lifted without scanning. There's a couple of ways to do that.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 12, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> I agree with amamba/the OP tried AGR and got no help! A Post to Flyer Talk/AGR Forum would be the next step/that's why its there and Amtrak has an Insider to help!


No, AGR Insider is not at Flyertalk to deal with individual issues. He is there to disseminate info about AGR and to answer general questions. The fact that he, in fact, does deal with individual problems (on his own time, by the way) is a bonus. It is a bonus that could well go away if he gets buried with stuff that could and should be handled through normal channels.

As both Alan and I said above, this is not even an issue that AGR and AGR Insider can handle. It is an Amtrak issue. Calling AGR was a mistake, and AGR referring him to the wrong department at Amtrak (Refund) was yet another mistake. Unlike most airline programs, AGR and Amtrak are in separate organization silos. The proper course is to call Amtrak Customer Relations and have them change the ticket status from no-show to lifted.


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## Anderson (Mar 12, 2014)

Just as a point, even if AGR Insider _could _trigger something in compensation, it likely would only be "makeup points" on an "adjustment", which would count neither as TQPs nor as a leg for that Acela trip.

AGR did a correction like that for me once (where nobody was sure what went wrong, but the points had failed to post... IIRC it was immediately after the e-ticket changeover, so I think AGR was authorized to be a bit "looser" with those points because of the large number of bungled ticket collections over that first month or two).


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## jimhudson (Mar 12, 2014)

To clarify: I'm not advocating contacting AGR Insider for help with every AGR Problem that comes up! I'm saying that his role @ Flyer Talk is to monitor Systemic Problems that arise and that AFAIK the proper procedure is to Call AGR for help with a concern/ then Post on AGR/ Flyer Talk/then AGR Insider will invite the Poster to PM him if its a problem that he can assist with!

Systemic problems would include such things as agents making up rules, denying Routings which are Valid cause they're not shown on the screen, problems with Qualified AGR Members being denied entry into the CHI Metro Lounge, Points disappearing into a Black Hole etc.

since our own AlanB is now the Chief Moderator of the AGR/ Flyer Talk Forum and so many Members try to assist Posters that have AGR Problems AFTER calling AGR, I'm sure AGR Insider will be able to assist as he so abely does on his own time! YMMV


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## fairviewroad (Mar 12, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> Calling AGR was a mistake, and AGR referring him to the wrong department at Amtrak (Refund) was yet another mistake. Unlike most airline programs, AGR and Amtrak are in separate organization silos. The proper course is to call Amtrak Customer Relations and have them change the ticket status from no-show to lifted.


No, calling AGR was NOT a mistake. It was not the most productive way to start, but to call it a "mistake" is a case of blaming the customer for the company's screw-up. Calling AGR because your AGR points did not post is a rational thing to do. It's not the customer's fault that Amtrak is so siloed that the right hand doesn't know how to talk to the left hand.

Alerting AGR Insider to this situation would be appropriate in the sense that an AGR agent mis-directed the OP. That's a situation that AGR should remedy. But yes, it does appear that the heart of the OP's problem needs to be addressed by Customer Service, not AGR or AGR Insider.


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## amamba (Mar 12, 2014)

fairviewroad said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > Calling AGR was a mistake, and AGR referring him to the wrong department at Amtrak (Refund) was yet another mistake. Unlike most airline programs, AGR and Amtrak are in separate organization silos. The proper course is to call Amtrak Customer Relations and have them change the ticket status from no-show to lifted.
> ...


Thank you. Calling AGR is absolutely the rational reaction for people when their points don't post. I don't see why we are blaming the customer for riding a train and expecting points to post.

If it is indeed Amtrak Customer Relations that needs to fix it, then why was the OP directed to call "refunds"? That sounds like a retraining issue.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 12, 2014)

amamba said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> > PRR 60 said:
> ...


I feel like that cavalry soldier in Dances with Wolves who gets arrow after arrow. I'm bleeding from front and back.

Just to be clear (and it sure seems I wasn't), I was *NOT* blaming the OP. The word "mistake" does not equate to a knowing mistake. I was not suggesting that the OP was the blame for anything. I was simply trying my best to explain to the OP and anyone else who might have been interested the weird workings of Amtrak and AGR, and why calling AGR for an issue caused by the actions of a train crew may, in fact, complicate the path toward resolution. However, since it seems that the common belief is that I was blaming the OP, I hereby withdraw the word, "mistake."

It is my belief that the most effective route for the OP, and anyone who has a ticket that does not get scanned, is to contact the people most directly able to deal with a ticket scan error. That is Amtrak, not AGR. Yes, the points were not credited, and that by itself suggests an AGR issue. However, since the ticket was never scanned (as is stated by the OP), the fact that points did not credit is the expected result. The cause of the missing points was the failed ticket lift, and that is on the Amtrak side of the operation. Yes, regular people would assume that AGR = Amtrak and Amtrak = AGR, but that is not really the case. A call to AGR requires the AGR agent to then refer the OP elsewhere (and know where that elsewhere is), and elsewhere from AGR means to another department, not just to another area of the same department. Calling Amtrak at least puts you in the correct organizational neighborhood. No normal person would know that, but we're not normal here.

Yes, I agree that the AGR agent should not have referred the OP to the refund department, and I swear I said that in my post. No, I don't know why. Perhaps to is because ticket mis-scans are more commonly handled by Amtrak, thus the AGR agent may have been confused as to what the OP was asking? Perhaps it was because the agent is not too bright? Your guess is as good as mine. Considering that some AGR agents have a tough enough time dealing with AGR issues, which is their area, are you really shocked that the OP was sent in the wrong direction by AGR for an Amtrak issue?

And, one more thing, how many times do we suggest the "retaining" solution whenever some Amtrak person screws up? Will yet another day in some conference room with Powerpoint presentations, lesson plans, and knowledge exams cure the problem? Does not seem to be working that well so far.

I'll just lay here now and try to pull the arrows out.


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## Ryan (Mar 12, 2014)

You said that much better than I could have, Bill. Nailed it.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 12, 2014)

RyanS said:


> You said that much better than I could have, Bill. Nailed it.


Don't say "nailed it" to a guy pulling arrows out of his body. :giggle:


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## amamba (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm not trying to attack anyone, so I'm sorry if you feel that I'm shooting arrows. That was not my intent. I'm just stating that to the normal lay person it makes sense to call AGR when the points don't post. Because I spend way too much time reading about Amtrak I totally get what happened. The explanations you all have posted make it clear that OP needs to talk to customer relations and basically have his ticket lifted. Once that happens it sounds like his points will post automatically.


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## iggy (Mar 13, 2014)

"A passenger who is an AGR member should be proactive and request to have the ticket scanned while on board"

Useless advice in many cases - many times when we track a conductor down - which can be a hassle - we have always been told that the ticket was lifted - actually the response is we knew you were in business class we marked you down etc. Just recently had a conductor scan my E-ticket but forget to go up one seat to my girlfriend who had her phone out with E-ticket displayed - that conductor walked out without scanning hers - I had to track him down before he left the Cafe Car.

I had a recent issue where I didn't get a ticket lifted on the way down to only have drama on the way home. Told my E-ticket was no longer valid for that date etc - I hadn't ridden on the original date = which I had - luckily a female conductor I've never seen or dealt with previously - knew how to fix things = again a very rare event.

Putting the responsibility on the customer to do the Amtrak employees job is not cool and shouldn't be needed. Yes I am aware that employees have those days - but my experience has been this is a very common problem - especially for those of us who don't ride in coach.


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## Anderson (Mar 13, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> And, one more thing, how many times do we suggest the "retaining" solution whenever some Amtrak person screws up? Will yet another day in some conference room with Powerpoint presentations, lesson plans, and knowledge exams cure the problem? Does not seem to be working that well so far.


Maybe the hope is that enough boring days sitting through those presentations will make them get their act together out of sheer desperation?


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## fairviewroad (Mar 13, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> I'll just lay here now and try to pull the arrows out.


Aw, shucks.

I may have been responsible for an arrow or two. I know your use of the word mistake is technically a correct usage, but it's still a pejorative term. Nonetheless, I'll accept your explanation.

As far as "re-training" I don't think that requires a day in a conference room, Powerpoint presentations, etc. It can be as simple as a tap on the shoulder (if the specific agent is known) or a three-sentence all-staff email (if the agent is unknown or it's a broad-enough problem). For example:

_"We've been getting multiple reports of points not posting when conductors fail to scan e-tickets. Just a reminder, in this situation please refer (or transfer) callers to Amtrak Customer Service. Here's the number: _____ Thanks for helping to address our customers' needs in the most efficient manner possible! _

A good manager can approach situations like this graciously and without laying blame or making someone feel like their job is being threatened. I know I personally respond better to a gentle reminder or a brief email then a forced attendance at a long, boring meeting.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2014)

This is OP. Sorry to cause an unnecessary debate here over agr insider. Been on hold for 1 hour plus on several attempts with amtrak refunds after being redirected from agr. Will try amtrak directly and hope for better service...as this is rediculous. Thanks for the advice.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2014)

Call Amtrak.

Ask for "Customer Relations".

They'll fix you up.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2014)

OP here. Thanks for the advice. Called Amtrak, and was immediately connected to Customer Relations without a hold time. The issue was resolved within twenty minutes. Thanks so much.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2014)

No problem.

Not sure why you were told to talk to "refunds" when you weren't looking for a refund.


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## amamba (Mar 14, 2014)

Guest said:


> OP here. Thanks for the advice. Called Amtrak, and was immediately connected to Customer Relations without a hold time. The issue was resolved within twenty minutes. Thanks so much.


Glad it worked out!


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## tim49424 (Mar 14, 2014)

iggy said:


> "A passenger who is an AGR member should be proactive and request to have the ticket scanned while on board"
> 
> Useless advice in many cases - many times when we track a conductor down - which can be a hassle - we have always been told that the ticket was lifted - actually the response is we knew you were in business class we marked you down etc. Just recently had a conductor scan my E-ticket but forget to go up one seat to my girlfriend who had her phone out with E-ticket displayed - that conductor walked out without scanning hers - I had to track him down before he left the Cafe Car.
> 
> ...



Just sharing what worked with me on a few occasions. No hassles, the conductor or assistant conductor was easy for me to find.


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## PaulM (Mar 24, 2014)

PRR 60 said:


> Yes, I agree that the AGR agent should not have referred the OP to the refund department, and I swear I said that in my post. No, I don't know why. Perhaps to is because ticket mis-scans are more commonly handled by Amtrak, thus the AGR agent may have been confused as to what the OP was asking? Perhaps it was because the agent is not too bright? Your guess is as good as mine.


My guess would be that the agent reasoned that if points did not post, then the customer didn't ride. If the customer didn't ride, then he is due some sort of refund. Probably incorrect under the new refund policy, but then many policies take a while to sink in.


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