# Viewliner vs. Superliner



## davlor (Nov 26, 2005)

I am trying to decide between booking a trip on the Capitol Limited (DC to Chicago: Superliner) or the Lakeshore Limited (NYC to Chicago: Viewliner). I have taken the LL before and enjoyed it, but have never been on the Capitol Limited.

Are coach seats much different in comfort and/or leg room on these two trains? (The LL is viewliner, and the CL is superliner.) Any other differences, e.g. food quality, observation cars, entertainment (or lack thereof)? Also, I know that most coach seats in viewliner don't have electrical outlets; how about in Superliner?


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## gswager (Nov 26, 2005)

The biggest different between Viewliner and Superliner is the height of the car. Superliner is double deck and most of the activities are on upper level, providing excellent view while Viewliner is from standing person's view.

I've never been on Viewliner before. The Superliner seats are quite comfortable with legrest, similiar to airlines' first class.


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## Viewliner (Nov 26, 2005)

Viewliners are not coaches they are Sleepers (w/ one dining car formerly in operation) . Trains that run with Viewliners primarily use Amfleet II Coaches which don't have outlets at every seat (not completely sure). Superliner coaches only have outlets at certain parts of the car.

The comfort would be relatively similar between coach seats, both feature leg rests, trays and reclining seats.

The lounge on a Superliner (though I've never been in one) is much nicer as it has more space and windows to really capture the view while Amfleet II Lounges have the same windows as the coaches. Some Superliner equipped trains still feature on board entertainment in the lounges whereas Single Level trains don't. Food quality will be the same as Amtrak uses standardized menus on all of its trains.

If you're doing a round trip by train I'd suggest taking one train in each direction to experience the differences in scenery and amenities alike. I hope this information has been usefull and if you have any additional questions feel free to ask.

Additionally there are several members of this forum including myself who have their own websites that feature photos of both types of equipment (the link to mine is below). Which may help give you a better idea of what an Amfleet II Coach, Lounge, and Heritage Diner are like.

For information on the routes themselves (scenery, etc.):

Lake Shore Limited

Capitol Limited


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## Guest_Amtrak_flyer (Nov 26, 2005)

I'd say the Superliners are the best, but being on the west coast I may be biased. The one thing I can say for sure the Amfleet lounges on the east coast are the pits nothing like the Sightseer or my favorite the parlour car on the starlight.


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## battalion51 (Nov 26, 2005)

Anyone in his right mind will tell you the Superliners are superior cars. The only thing that keeps them off the east coast is their height and limited numbers. B)


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## trainboy325 (Nov 27, 2005)

Bat is right! If you have a choice between trains using equipment as your reasons, Superliner is the way to go. Amfleet IIs are OK, but hardly what you want to travel on for long distance, primarily because Amfleets generally don't do well for long distance, especially with the restroom situation (two toilets-60 people vs. 5 toilets-90 people). As a coach attendent, this is major problem when traveling long distance in coach on single level trains. This is mainly because Amtrak years back decided to use Amfleet cars for long distance trains when they were designed primarily to be corridor equipment and built as such. Amfleets are difficult to keep clean (restrooms especially) for long trips and have many maintenance problems that, for various reasons, don't get fixed regularly. Superliners on the other hand were specifically designed for long distance and were built extremely well compared to Amfleets, and Viewliners as well. I will agree with Viewliner that you may want to try each type of train to see what you specifically like or dislike. Amtrak trains and their equipment are similar, but the routes and scenery are important reasons for choosing a route as well. Have a great trip!


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## jim692 (Mar 22, 2009)

I've been on both and believe the superliners have a noticably smoother ride. Less side to side jarring.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2009)

battalion51 said:


> Anyone in his right mind will tell you the Superliners are superior cars. The only thing that keeps them off the east coast is their height and limited numbers. B)


Anyone with an ID over 30 will tell you that the Viewliners are the superior sleepers. Thank deity that the Superliners are kept off most of the LD east coast routes due to their excessive height.


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## Larry H. (Mar 22, 2009)

That is obviously a matter of opinion and not the common one either.


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## Bigval109 (Mar 22, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> That is obviously a matter of opinion and not the common one either.


I think they are both great.  I just want to be on the one that's going somewhere. Hey I just love trains and riding them. What can I say. With my upcoming vacation in May I will be riding all three. To include California Amtrak.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2009)

Some Superliner coach cars do have outlets at every seat, others do not. It is the same with the AFIIs. I have had the luck of being on both where they have outlets and the misfortune of having to dig around for some myself.

That is one of the perks of a BC/Sleeper upgrade-- you will have them. But I would say you're chances of getting one are around 65% without upgrading, 75% if you're boarding at a terminal stop, and 90 on certain routes where they have "lucky" trainsets like the CL. Been on the CL... well over two-dozen times, and only once did I not have an outlet.


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## Upstate (Mar 22, 2009)

Bigger windows on the Superliner coaches. Easier to see out and more natural lighting.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 22, 2009)

Less prone to freezing up in winter too, Superliners.


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## SharonLPK (Mar 25, 2009)

I've ridden each of these a few times now... I like the Superliners for the restrooms/changing room on the lower level, as well as add'l luggage storage area down there. I've had better luck, though, getting electrical outlets at my seat and I've also had smoother rides on the Viewliners (I feel more sway in the Superliner). I agree with the other posters, take a ride on both, that's usually how we do it


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## sechs (Mar 26, 2009)

I wouldn't call one necessarily better than the other. They different and have different issues.

I would say, if you haven't taken it before, go with the Capitol Limited. After that, you can form your own opinion.


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## Bedford (Mar 26, 2009)

The best fix for viewliner. Get rid of the attendant's room and put in a general toilet. Sell the handicap room to the general public. It's the primo Amtrak sleepingcar space and the best ever except for private cars and the master room on the broadway, southern's crescent and the CZ.


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## BuzzKillington (Mar 26, 2009)

I rode on both the Superliners and the single levels on the same trip and they really seemed virtually equal to me. I might even give a slight advantage to the single levels because more of them seem to have outlets at every seat. I was in the one car on the train that didn't but was lucky to have an outlet anyway. No doubt the better lounge car is the Superliner though. Some of the Superliner diners seemed to look a lot like Diner Lites.


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## Green Maned Lion (Mar 26, 2009)

trainboy325 said:


> Bat is right! If you have a choice between trains using equipment as your reasons, Superliner is the way to go. Amfleet IIs are OK, but hardly what you want to travel on for long distance, primarily because Amfleets generally don't do well for long distance, especially with the restroom situation (two toilets-60 people vs. 5 toilets-90 people). As a coach attendent, this is major problem when traveling long distance in coach on single level trains. This is mainly because Amtrak years back decided to use Amfleet cars for long distance trains when they were designed primarily to be corridor equipment and built as such. Amfleets are difficult to keep clean (restrooms especially) for long trips and have many maintenance problems that, for various reasons, don't get fixed regularly. Superliners on the other hand were specifically designed for long distance and were built extremely well compared to Amfleets, and Viewliners as well. I will agree with Viewliner that you may want to try each type of train to see what you specifically like or dislike. Amtrak trains and their equipment are similar, but the routes and scenery are important reasons for choosing a route as well. Have a great trip!


Both car types are exceedingly well built. The Superliners are better designed for long-distance use than the Amfleet II cars, but both cars are getting on 30 years old now, and the fact they are still on the rails, given Amtraks lackadaisical (usually out of need rather than choice) maintenance procedures, is a testament to the incredible build quality of both sets of equipment. It is said that, agewise, the Acela sets, some 20 years newer, are in worse shape than the Amfleets. That says volumes more than any words about window-size or bathroom cleanliness does.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Mar 26, 2009)

BuzzKillington said:


> I rode on both the Superliners and the single levels on the same trip and they really seemed virtually equal to me. I might even give a slight advantage to the single levels because more of them seem to have outlets at every seat. I was in the one car on the train that didn't but was lucky to have an outlet anyway. No doubt the better lounge car is the Superliner though. Some of the Superliner diners seemed to look a lot like Diner Lites.


That would be the CCC ad, yes, for all intent and purpose the CCC is the diner-lite for the Superliner. Though routes like the CL offer full diner service-- so, food and service wise there is no difference there between a 'diner' and a CCC.


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## battalion51 (Mar 26, 2009)

Actually the Superliner II is just over 15 years old, so they're doing pretty well. There's no doubt that deferred maintenance has definitely taken its toll on the Amfleets, but you work with what you have.


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## LookingGlassTie (Jan 4, 2017)

Because I live in Coastal VA, I'd be more likely to ride a train with Viewliners as opposed to Superliners. Probably the only exception I see is if I were to take the train out to California to visit some of my family. In which case I would take the Capitol Limited and the Southwest Chief (both Super trains)


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## Chey (Jan 4, 2017)

I prefer Viewliners only because I don't have to try to get my carryon luggage (small suitcase, medium backpack, large purse) up the stairs. I have back problems but I doubt they're serious enough to qualify me for disabled and most of the time I travel by myself anyway. And many times the attendant sees I'm a senior and will haul the little suitcase up for me. But on a Viewliner I don't have those issues.


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## Tennessee Traveler (Jan 4, 2017)

Boarding the Capitol Limited in DC and Chicago and boarding the Southwest Chief in Chicago or Los Angeles there are "red caps" available whom you tip about $5 who will take your bags up to your room on the Superliner sleeper cars. And generally the sleeper car attendant will offer to bring your bags down to the lower level for deboarding.


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## A Voice (Jan 4, 2017)

How many lives does this thread have? It's a twelve year old.....


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## Albo5000 (Jan 4, 2017)

First off, the Lake Shore Limited is probably a more expensive train to take. If you leave from DC, you will have to take regional to NYP and then wait for the LSL.... seems like a waste of time and added expense.

Secondly, If you are going to be getting sleeping accommodations and there is more than one person in the roomette, I think the Viewliners are better because they have windows on the top bunk. If you are going coachclass, the Superliner is better because they have better lounges to sit in (in my opinion). I feel that sleeping in coach is the same on both Am-fleet and Superliner (as long as you aren't at the end of the consist.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference. If money and time aren't a concern, than do the trip that sounds best to you. I know living in the Northeast, I would take Superliner any day because I take NE Regional so often that Am-fleet is kinda.... boring. Hope you enjoy the trip no matter what!


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## Skyline (Jan 5, 2017)

Bigval109 said:


> Larry H. said:
> 
> 
> > That is obviously a matter of opinion and not the common one either.
> ...


Yes, agree. I'd rather be on a train. Any train.

My favorite sleeping car in the '70s was the slumbercoach! I wish they still existed. Bare-bones comfort but affordable.


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## Ryan (Jan 5, 2017)

Albo5000 said:


> First off, the Lake Shore Limited is probably a more expensive train to take. If you leave from DC, you will have to take regional to NYP and then wait for the LSL.... seems like a waste of time and added expense.


I think he probably made his decision 11.1232877 years ago when this thread was started.


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## Philly Amtrak Fan (Jan 6, 2017)

I hope one day we can have one car that Amtrak can use on LD trains coast to coast. Right now the Viewliners are old and running out of use. The last few years a couple of trains (Three Rivers, Silver Palm) on the East Coast died and now the lack of diners is causing several LD trains to go diner-less or no diner at all (SS). Once the Viewliner II's are fully implemented the problems will hopefully be solved. But one day Superliners will have to be retired (or maybe the Viewliner II's do) and train travel will suffer on one half of the US while the other half will go unscathed. Having one train that can be used coast to coast will allow for more flexibility.

I know I enjoy being on the top level than the bottom level and prefer Superliners. I would love to ride them on the East Coast other than the CL. Also, I am guessing but may be wrong that a single Superliner coach has more seating capacity than a Viewliner coach. That might explain why the Western routes often have higher ridership than the East Coast. Imagine if the LSL or SM could use Superliners. How many more seats could they sell?

We all know Superliners can't go to NYP and I believe BAL is out (northbound and/or southbound)? Are there other areas where Superliners can't go? Are there any areas that require Superliners only? You can't do a Superliner from LAX-NYP but how about a Viewliner (assuming one day Amtrak has more than they know what to do with)?


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## NETrainfan (Jan 6, 2017)

We prefer the Superliner lounge cars and bathroom set-up.

For sleeping in roomettes, we prefer the Viewliners.


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## A Voice (Jan 6, 2017)

Philly Amtrak Fan said:


> I hope one day we can have one car that Amtrak can use on LD trains coast to coast. Right now the Viewliners are old and running out of use. The last few years a couple of trains (Three Rivers, Silver Palm) on the East Coast died and now the lack of diners is causing several LD trains to go diner-less or no diner at all (SS). Once the Viewliner II's are fully implemented the problems will hopefully be solved. But one day Superliners will have to be retired (or maybe the Viewliner II's do) and train travel will suffer on one half of the US while the other half will go unscathed. Having one train that can be used coast to coast will allow for more flexibility.
> 
> I know I enjoy being on the top level than the bottom level and prefer Superliners. I would love to ride them on the East Coast other than the CL. Also, I am guessing but may be wrong that a single Superliner coach has more seating capacity than a Viewliner coach. That might explain why the Western routes often have higher ridership than the East Coast. Imagine if the LSL or SM could use Superliners. How many more seats could they sell?
> 
> We all know Superliners can't go to NYP and I believe BAL is out (northbound and/or southbound)? Are there other areas where Superliners can't go? Are there any areas that require Superliners only? You can't do a Superliner from LAX-NYP but how about a Viewliner (assuming one day Amtrak has more than they know what to do with)?


A Superliner replacement which can be used anywhere is largely a solution in search of a problem. We already have a proven design which can be used anywhere; They're called low-level cars (Heritage, Amfleet, Viewliner, etc.). We also already have a bi-level concept which offers greater capacity. No car with low level boarding can really be used anywhere in the Norttheast Corridor as they require low platforms (Washington retains some); Superliners aren't prohibited just because of tunnel and other clearance issues. Talgo sets would also be unworkable. A bi-level car which could be used anywhere (Ie., use high or low platforms) would pay a very high price in terms of capacity, design, and passenger comfort and convenience.

You are perhaps familiar with the saying that "one size fits all" really means "one size fits none"? Multiple car fleets seem to offer sufficient flexibility. Certainly an all single-level passenger car roster could be used anywhere, but not all trains have the same requirements (you need high-speed equipment in the Northeast, but not on the _California Zephyr_, for instance).


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jan 6, 2017)

A Voice said:


> Philly Amtrak Fan said:
> 
> 
> > I hope one day we can have one car that Amtrak can use on LD trains coast to coast. Right now the Viewliners are old and running out of use. The last few years a couple of trains (Three Rivers, Silver Palm) on the East Coast died and now the lack of diners is causing several LD trains to go diner-less or no diner at all (SS). Once the Viewliner II's are fully implemented the problems will hopefully be solved. But one day Superliners will have to be retired (or maybe the Viewliner II's do) and train travel will suffer on one half of the US while the other half will go unscathed. Having one train that can be used coast to coast will allow for more flexibility.
> ...


I see no reason a train car with both levels of boarding is not possible. A standard commuter rail design could be used with mid level passage. The design would need to be adjusted to have one high level door at an end of the car and a low level door in the middle. Seats would also have to be spread further apart to LD specifications. I do not believe that these adjustments would be complicated or expensive. This design would not only be usable anywhere in the system, but also provide level boarding at any station. If the design would not work for certain types of cars such as sleepers (may not be enough headroom for bunk beds), standard single levels cars could be attached as the new cars would have mid level passage. This is done frequently between different coach designs on MARC and MBTA commuter trains.


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## jis (Jan 8, 2017)

Of course, a car with even five different level boarding levels with ADA elevators connecting all, is possible, but there will be no passenger space in it. It will just be boarding vestibules and elevators  . Maybe we should just have a Boarding Car


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## Ryan (Jan 8, 2017)

A Voice said:


> A Superliner replacement which can be used anywhere is largely a solution in search of a problem.


This, a thousand times over.



brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> I see no reason a train car with both levels of boarding is not possible.


Nobody is saying it's impossible. Obviously, cars with those features exist today. It's just a waste of time and money for Amtrak that has no need whatsoever for a singe car design that can roam the entire system and introduces design limitations that make the cars worse for long distance use.


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