# WiFi ? at Stations



## KellyB (Jul 11, 2016)

On the Amtrak website, each station has an list of "features" which includes an entry for "WiFi" --or "No Wi-Fi". Does this refer to free Wi-Fi in general, regardless of provider? Or, to just the AmtrakConnect Wi-Fi? (Chicago Union Station, as an example). What determines if a station has it or can get it? Number routes ? passenger?

(I've traveled on only a few trains, am a newbie to these fora, and am a first-time poster.)

Thanks for your help.


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## jebr (Jul 11, 2016)

It's just Amtrak-provided wifi, as far as I can tell. One example is that it lists MSP as not having wi-fi, but the station has free wi-fi provided by Union Depot (which is owned by the county's rail authority, not Amtrak.)

Last time I was at Union Station in Chicago there was some wifi in the food court area, and there should be wi-fi in the Metropolitan Lounge. Unsure if it's in the Legacy Lounge.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 11, 2016)

In Los Angeles, Amtrak-provided WiFi is available in the Metropolitan Lounge but not the general areas. Not sure what (if any) non-Amtrak WiFi is available in the station.


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## seat38a (Jul 11, 2016)

ABQ station has WiFi, but Amtrak shows it as it does not. The WiFi in ABQ is provided by Grayhound.



DSC09053 by B H, on Flickr

The station that I use all the time in OC, is listed as NOT having WiFi, but the city provides WiFi at the station. Going by Amtrak's data on their website for WiFi availability is the worst. Probably want to try doing a google search for the station and see what others say.


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## SarahZ (Jul 11, 2016)

jebr said:


> It's just Amtrak-provided wifi, as far as I can tell. One example is that it lists MSP as not having wi-fi, but the station has free wi-fi provided by Union Depot (which is owned by the county's rail authority, not Amtrak.)
> 
> Last time I was at Union Station in Chicago there was some wifi in the food court area, and there should be wi-fi in the Metropolitan Lounge. Unsure if it's in the Legacy Lounge.


The Legacy Lounge has wi-fi.


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## BCL (Jul 11, 2016)

The only station I've been to with Amtrak provided WiFi was NY Penn Station. It showed up as AmtrakConnect. It was fast too - I'm thinking a commercial fiber connection. It also didn't block out video streaming like I've experienced on a train.


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 11, 2016)

Every major city I've been to on Amtrak (PDX, SAC, LAX, CHI, BOS, NYP, WAS) has had wi-fi in the station. Teeny-tiny towns (Shelby MT for example, where there's lots of padding in the schedule) have not. In between, it's sometimes provided (ALB, NHV) and sometimes not. I've just listed the ones I could remember, for sure.


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## BCL (Jul 11, 2016)

oregon pioneer said:


> Every major city I've been to on Amtrak (PDX, SAC, LAX, CHI, BOS, NYP, WAS) has had wi-fi in the station. Teeny-tiny towns (Shelby MT for example, where there's lots of padding in the schedule) have not. In between, it's sometimes provided (ALB, NHV) and sometimes not. I've just listed the ones I could remember, for sure.


I've been to SAC a few times and didn't find any WiFi. They've also got the platforms way out from the station building. The Amtrak website says no WiFi at SAC, PDX, or SEA. For LAX they say it's not Amtrak provided WiFi.

While EMY isn't necessarily in a major city, it is an important station for Amtrak, and one where there are lots of people waiting to board at the origin point of the CZ. Definitely no Amtrak WiFi. I'm a Comcast internet customer, so I can often get that signal clearly outside. There's a strong Comcast signal outside of OKJ too.


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## TinCan782 (Jul 11, 2016)

FrensicPic said:


> In Los Angeles, Amtrak-provided WiFi is available in the Metropolitan Lounge but not the general areas. Not sure what (if any) non-Amtrak WiFi is available in the station.


On the way home this evening, I took a moment in the main waiting room of LAUS and did a couple of screen shots showing what my phone was "seeing". The first shot is in the waiting area, the second out trackside on a platform. I'm guessing "Metro" is LA Metro who is the owner of the station. The only Amtrak wifi was "AMTRAK Met Lounge" and "AmtrakConnect". Although showing not in range, they appear on my phone because they are saved on the phone.


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## oregon pioneer (Jul 11, 2016)

BCL said:


> oregon pioneer said:
> 
> 
> > Every major city I've been to on Amtrak (PDX, SAC, LAX, CHI, BOS, NYP, WAS) has had wi-fi in the station. Teeny-tiny towns (Shelby MT for example, where there's lots of padding in the schedule) have not. In between, it's sometimes provided (ALB, NHV) and sometimes not. I've just listed the ones I could remember, for sure.
> ...


Hmm, you could be right about SAC. I might have gone to the Starbucks attached to the station in order to get wi-fi. I would not have tried on the platform.

I am sure I got wi-fi in the Met Lounge at PDX (see Metropolitan Lounges).


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## Guest KellyB (Jul 12, 2016)

To follow up on this topic a bit -- how does one go about getting Amtrak to put in Wi-Fi at a station? For example, my nearest station is Little Rock, Arkansas (LRK). When I inquired about Wi-Fi the employee (C.S.R.?) said they had none. I'm wondering what I can do that can help. But, I don't know what's involved in the decision-making, how it gets determined, etc. (As a side note; there are a couple of Wi-Fi signals present in the station waiting area. But, they belong to other businesses in the building which are completely unrelated to transportation, and they are password protected as, of course, they should be.)


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## BCL (Jul 12, 2016)

Guest KellyB said:


> To follow up on this topic a bit -- how does one go about getting Amtrak to put in Wi-Fi at a station? For example, my nearest station is Little Rock, Arkansas (LRK). When I inquired about Wi-Fi the employee (C.S.R.?) said they had none. I'm wondering what I can do that can help. But, I don't know what's involved in the decision-making, how it gets determined, etc. (As a side note; there are a couple of Wi-Fi signals present in the station waiting area. But, they belong to other businesses in the building which are completely unrelated to transportation, and they are password protected as, of course, they should be.)


Good luck. Commercial-grade WiFi is expensive. A home unit wouldn't cut it that kind of use (range, simultaneous connections, reliability, and speed), and the service charges are a lot. Don't get your hopes up. If a key terminus with 25 times the ridership of Little Rock like Emeryville or Seattle can't get official WiFi, I'm not sure Amtrak is going to pay for it. At other stations it might be provided by the station owner/operator but that would typically be a local government or public agency. As it stands, operating a public train station is already a money losing proposition, so sinking money into WiFi would mean losing more money.

Quite a few business-provided WiFi setups are theoretically open to anyone. I know McDonald's and Starbucks have stated that if you're within range, feel free to use their WiFi even if you didn't buy anything. However, they have partners that consider it advertising to a degree. You'll need to connect through a "splash screen". McDonald's partners with AT&T, while Starbucks works with Google.


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## jebr (Jul 12, 2016)

I assume Amtrak has some sort of internet connection at all staffed stations and stations with ticketing machines. What speed that is at, I'm not sure, and that could be a major sticking point for starting up wireless. Amtrak's current bandwidth needs are probably relatively small (ticketing data, an information board or two, and maybe the security system.) Adding customer wi-fi into that mix would likely require more bandwidth, along with the one-time cost of setting up and configuring a business-grade network. There may also be a cost to manage the back end of the business grade network (authentication, etc.)

It would be useful, and probably a good investment, for Amtrak to set up official wi-fi (maybe with a partnership with a major carrier to help sponsor it) at major layover points and longer stops. However, Amtrak would have to invest in adequate bandwidth to make it feasible and worthwhile. VIA Rail has something similar at their stations, but the bandwidth available is inadequate for the usage, and it became more an exercise in frustration to use than an actual useful amenity. For me, I have a cellular data plan, so minor usage or real-time access (such as checking Facebook or AU) isn't a big deal for me to do over cellular. For me, wireless needs to offer enough bandwidth to download any new podcasts that I may want to listen to or were released over the past day (since I was last at a wi-fi point) and ideally to back up any photos I may have taken on my phone, along with any other data-intensive tasks (app updates, etc.) None of these require extremely fast speeds, but it must be consistent and decent speed (probably 5Mb or so while I'm downloading.) For a trainful of people, even a small percentage of those could easily use up a standard business connection that Amtrak may have, and would probably require significant cost.

While it's nice to have wi-fi while waiting for the train at my point of origin, it's not quite as useful and I'm fine with cellular data in those instances. However, on international trips I could see wi-fi on arrival being helpful to coordinate and hold someone over until they can get a local data plan or onto more stable wi-fi/navigate their way to where they need to go.


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## BCL (Jul 12, 2016)

jebr said:


> I assume Amtrak has some sort of internet connection at all staffed stations and stations with ticketing machines. What speed that is at, I'm not sure, and that could be a major sticking point for starting up wireless. Amtrak's current bandwidth needs are probably relatively small (ticketing data, an information board or two, and maybe the security system.) Adding customer wi-fi into that mix would likely require more bandwidth, along with the one-time cost of setting up and configuring a business-grade network. There may also be a cost to manage the back end of the business grade network (authentication, etc.)



User agreements often specify how an Internet connection can be used. My home connection can't intentionally be used to supply customers at a business. However, if I connect it to an unprotected wireless access point, I'm not sure I've done anything that violates the terms.

I've seen quite a few protected wireless networks being broadcast that indicate things like POS (point of sale) or other business access terms. Personally I'm not sure why broadcasting the name is done, but it is. On top of that, a lot of these aren't even connected to the Internet, but used for something like orders to be communicated to a kitchen.


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## the_traveler (Jul 12, 2016)

Also, a thing against LRK is the (somewhat) short hours in the middle of the night. Except for 1 day of the week, it is only open from 10:30 pm to 8 am.


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## BCL (Jul 12, 2016)

the_traveler said:


> Also, a thing against LRK is the (somewhat) short hours in the middle of the night. Except for 1 day of the week, it is only open from 10:30 pm to 8 am.


I take it that it's a two-employee operation? I talked to a few station agents who had that type of assignment. Five days a week each, and their schedules overlapped two days of the week. Kind of interesting when the station agent doubles as a baggage handler. I'm guessing the day with extended hours is where both employees are working that day.

Working graveyard must be brutal.


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## KellyB (Jul 12, 2016)

BCL said:


> the_traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Also, a thing against LRK is the (somewhat) short hours in the middle of the night. Except for 1 day of the week, it is only open from 10:30 pm to 8 am.
> ...


Yes, essentially two-employees for the station. One of whom retired in May! So, the other one is having to handle it all until help arrives. (I say, two employees; it is a crew-change location for the conductors & engineers. So yeah, there would be more than two, during that period.) Oh by the way, yes, you are correct trains arrive only late at night. (11:30 pm, and 3:02am)


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## zephyr17 (Jul 13, 2016)

Also remember that Amtrak does not own or control the property at many, if not the majority, of the stations outside the Northeast Corridor.


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## BCL (Jul 13, 2016)

zephyr17 said:


> Also remember that Amtrak does not own or control the property at many, if not the majority, of the stations outside the Northeast Corridor.



I don't know if that necessarily affects whether or not Amtrak can or will provide WiFi. Amtrak sets up and maintains all sorts of equipment in stations that they don't own. I'd think that costs and whether or not that would improve or serve existing ridership would be considered. A list of stations where Amtrak provides WiFi would include the busiest stations in the system. I'd also think that they would consider how much bandwidth would be used by non-Amtrak users at stations served by other train operators. At NY Penn Station, I remember that the Amtrak WiFi was focused around the Amtrak waiting area. The way the station is built, the signals weren't likely going to trickle to the NJT or LIRR waiting areas.

I did say that perhaps a station owner might install WiFi as a benefit. It would get interesting though, as most don't really operate a station other than sending in cleaning crews and maybe locking up unstaffed station buildings at closing time. If there's a hiccup, there might not be anyone to reset the equipment, and Amtrak personnel might be annoyed when asked to address something they're not responsible for.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jul 13, 2016)

BCL said:


> Commercial-grade WiFi is expensive.


This hasn't been the case for several years now.



BCL said:


> A home unit wouldn't cut it that kind of use (range, simultaneous connections, reliability, and speed), and the service charges are a lot.


You don't need to cover the whole building. You only need enough range for folks in the immediate Amtrak waiting area to check emails and send text messages. Service charges are almost entirely dependent on available competition, but if you're willing to sign a national or regional contract you can get the price down to manageable levels.



BCL said:


> At other stations it might be provided by the station owner/operator but that would typically be a local government or public agency.


In many areas of the country government agencies and municipalities are specifically prohibited from offering public internet access by law.



BCL said:


> As it stands, operating a public train station is already a money losing proposition, so sinking money into WiFi would mean losing more money.


In many countries operating a public transportation station is a net positive financially. The reason it loses money in the US is because we rarely take the time to plan or coordinate anything. In many cases the station serves one or two trains a day and little or nothing else. As a result economies of scale never come into play.


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## BCL (Jul 13, 2016)

Devil's Advocate said:


> BCL said:
> 
> 
> > Commercial-grade WiFi is expensive.
> ...


Commercial-grade WiFi equipment is going to cost at least a few hundred dollars. The service charges go up if customer use is allowed. The biggest problem with a lot of government agencies is justifying the expense.

I know that some small businesses (small cafes) make do with inexpensive home-grade equipment but that's going to have issues if there are dozens of people trying to use the same connection. I remember visiting one place where I found out there was WiFi. It was brutal trying to use it.

As far as providing WiFi by a government agency, I guess it really depends on the government. Public libraries around here provide WiFi. The City of Santa Clara's public utility service provides free public WiFi through their network that they use for smart meters. I've tried accessing that at GAC, but it's kind of wonky. It's bandwidth limited to 1 Mbit/sec per user, but I suspect it's rarely that fast. On top of that, they need special equipment that can do that kind of limiting. If it's done right, it doesn't become a substitute for high-speed home internet access.

On top of that, the OP was asking about Little Rock. Two trains per day and a station that's pretty much only open during the the wee hours. That's going to be tough to justify. So many people have smart phones and data plans these days, so I'd say it's unlikely that someone steps up and provides passenger WiFi.


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## KellyB (Jul 13, 2016)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your thoughts. If there anything develops, I'll post it here.

KellyB


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