# China's High Speed Trains



## haolerider (Sep 24, 2013)

In the New York Times - September 24 - there is an interesting article regarding China's High Speed trains and their affect on various segments of the Chinese economy. It also points out that ridership has gone through the roof and has caused some short hop air routes to be cancelled, due to train ridership. Of course, government money and government control over pricing, etc has been a major factor in ths success. The government was also able to "relocate" citizens to make land available for the construction.


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## sitzplatz17 (Sep 24, 2013)

Very interesting article indeed. With a population as massive as China, the scale-ability of rail travel really makes it an ideal solution for the transit needs.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 24, 2013)

I found the article rather bittersweet.

On the one hand it's amazing to see a massive high speed passenger rail system financed, designed, built, and utilized with such enthusiasm.

Seeing China's passenger rail success substantially validates many of the core positions and expectations that many of us have been holding for years if not decades.

On the other hand, China's amazing success also casts a massive shadow upon on our own passenger rail system devoid of high speed services and full of political baggage.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/business/global/high-speed-train-system-is-huge-success-for-china.html

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On a lighter note *What if the train were a Tetris game...*


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## Swadian Hardcore (Sep 24, 2013)

Glad to see that's doing well. I still like the ride the old slower trains in Germany instead of the HSR, but that's just me. This progress still makes me very excited for my China trip next year. I'm been saving every dollar I can for some "fun extras" over there, even cutting all my Amtrak ride for cheaper options. But don't worry, I'm not kicking the trains down the drain, I'm just going to be riding _other_ trains.


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## cirdan (Sep 27, 2013)

sitzplatz17 said:


> Very interesting article indeed. With a population as massive as China, the scale-ability of rail travel really makes it an ideal solution for the transit needs.


It would be interesting to look at China's population distribution.

I may be mistaken, but I was generally under the impression that China was not too different to the United States in that it has lots of big cities on or near to the coastline, then a scattering of other big cities in the interior and a lot of agricultural land (or mountains) in between forming the Chinese equivalent of the "fly-over states". It's almost as if China is a geographic copy of the US but somebody forgot to add the West Coast. It would seem that the present high-speed lines are not just going along the densely built coastal corridor (let's call it the Chinese NEC) but actually bridging some of this fly-over land and going to the Chinese equivalents of Chicago, St Louis and Denver.


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## Anderson (Sep 27, 2013)

The main thing is that China is, to some extent, like that...only scaled up by a factor of 3-4.

Probably the most bittersweet aspect of the Chinese system is that for all of its glitches, when you look at the socioeconomic situation of a lot of Chinese as well as the pervasiveness of the automobile there, from what I can tell China is where the US was sometime in the late 40s/early 50s. What hurts about this is that what China is building we could have had here instead with some different choices in public policy (or different pressures on us)...and that it seems like they've learned a lot of lessons both at our expense and as they've gone along (there have been a few attempts to pave their way out of congestion...if you think LA is bad, I hear Beijing makes it look like a picnic).


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## George Harris (Oct 4, 2013)

When getting all excited about the rate at which China is building high speed railroads, don't forget that China had been building ordinary railroads at the rate of a few hundred kilometers per year for quite a few years before they started building high speed railroads, so they were already in railroad building mode, and that included providing for passenger facilities. Most of what goes in the building of a railroad is the same regardless of the purpose of the railroad. You just build straighter for high speed and flatter for heavy freight. Your tolerances in track are much tighter for high speed.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 5, 2013)

Anderson said:


> The main thing is that China is, to some extent, like that...only scaled up by a factor of 3-4.
> 
> Probably the most bittersweet aspect of the Chinese system is that for all of its glitches, when you look at the socioeconomic situation of a lot of Chinese as well as the pervasiveness of the automobile there, from what I can tell China is where the US was sometime in the late 40s/early 50s. What hurts about this is that what China is building we could have had here instead with some different choices in public policy (or different pressures on us)...and that it seems like they've learned a lot of lessons both at our expense and as they've gone along (there have been a few attempts to pave their way out of congestion...if you think LA is bad, I hear Beijing makes it look like a picnic).


It looks to me like China is more similar to even earlier then the post-war era in the US. One thing you have to look at are the Chinese factories, they pay poorly but many provide on-site boarding facilities for the employees, just like how American factories used to provide their own boardinghouses and company stores.

It looks to me like China is like somewhere between the 1900s and 1920s in the US. Back then, the US was building lots of different new trnasport options as well, like the US Highways and the first airports. China is doing the same except they view HSR in the context that the US views the airlines.

It's not similar to the post-war era in the US because during that time, more and more people were moving out to the suburbs. China is the opposite, more and more people are moving into the cities. That does affect transportation options being built.


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