# Business Class on NE Regional Train



## amamba (Jun 10, 2008)

My husband and I are taking the Northeast Regional train from Boston to Washington, DC in September. I have ridden this train, but always on coach and it has been fine. Hubby is concerned because its a LONG trip and we are contemplating upgrading to business class. It is $168 extra, roundtrip, for both of us to do this. Is it worth the additional money, especially when the coach class cars already have power outlets at the seats? We aren't taking the acela, just the standard regional line.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 10, 2008)

amamba said:


> My husband and I are taking the Northeast Regional train from Boston to Washington, DC in September. I have ridden this train, but always on coach and it has been fine. Hubby is concerned because its a LONG trip and we are contemplating upgrading to business class. It is $168 extra, roundtrip, for both of us to do this. Is it worth the additional money, especially when the coach class cars already have power outlets at the seats? We aren't taking the acela, just the standard regional line.


Not every single coach car has that feature. Many many of them do, but not all. That being said, unless its running an ex-_Metroliner_ club-dinette car, and most don't, I think Regional BC is THE biggest money waster per-mile on the Amtrak system. Often times the differentiator between a BC and coach car is a taped on piece of paper. The number of Amfleet I coach cars bearing scars from such a "Businessclass" upgrade is shameful.

I know not where you are going, but if you can manage to maneuver it, you might benefit from trying to snag a long distance train instead of a Regional. This assumes your northern terminal is south of NY or perhaps New Haven (Does the _Vermonter_ run Amfleet IIs?) and your southern terminal is south of DC. The _Palmetto_, _Silver Meteor_, and _Silver Star_ run with Amfleet II equipment, which offers about 3 times the legroom, plus vastly upgraded amenities. (for example, a full service dining car on the Silver trains)

One train that I know always carries the Metroliner car is 67/66, the former _Twilight Shoreliner_ which runs an overnight schedule- it leaves Boston at 9:45PM, Newport News at 4:20PM, and arrives at Boston at 11:50 AM, and Newport News at 7:52 AM, respectively. I'd imagine the other Virginia service trains do as well. Those trains are the _Virginian_ (84/93/99/193), _Old Dominion_ (94/95), _Charter Oak_ (85/86/87/88), and the never named 82/83. Amtrak doesn't use these names anymore. I just reference them this way.

If you can confirm somehow that the train runs an ex-Metroliner car, then go for the upgrade. You might be better served, however, going all out and going Acela First Class though.


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## the_traveler (Jun 11, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> and arrives at Boston at 11:50 AM, and Newport News at 7:52 AM, respectively


I think you have the arrival times backwards! Arrival in *Boston* is at 7:52 AM!


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## Walt (Jun 11, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> (Does the _Vermonter_ run Amfleet IIs?)


How do I tell?

We went BC, and had the 2-1 setting, "la-z-boy" style reclining seats, power outlet, and free "room temp" mini-can sodas. The car had the snack counter in the middle, with BC at one end and booth/tables on the other end.


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## amamba (Jun 11, 2008)

We are literally going from Boston, South Station to Washington, DC, Union Station.

My understanding was that many of the long distance trains don't go all the way up to Boston and we are really limited to the NE Regional Trains or the Acela only. Is that incorrect? We don't want to change trains in the middle of the trip.

I am right now booked on the 2155 Acela going south from Boston to DC (but on business, not first) and on the 194 regional train going north (from DC to Boston) with an upgrade to business class.


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## amamba (Jun 11, 2008)

Now that I'm looking at those trains (66/67), it sounds so much fun to do the overnight, but I woudl really want a roomette. It's too bad that they don't offer them on that route. 10 hours is a long time for me to attempt to sleep, even in business class. So how do I know which trains run the old metroliner cars? do I just call the 800 number and ask them if they know?


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## the_traveler (Jun 11, 2008)

amamba said:


> Now that I'm looking at those trains (66/67), it sounds so much fun to do the overnight, but I woudl really want a roomette. It's too bad that they don't offer them on that route. 10 hours is a long time for me to attempt to sleep, even in business class. So how do I know which trains run the old metroliner cars? do I just call the 800 number and ask them if they know?


The only NEC Regional trains that you could be *certain* that would have the 2-1 seating ex-Metroliner cars is on trains 66/67. Beyond that, the Regionals may have a 2-2 seating BC car or a "regular" car - it's the luck of the draw!


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2008)

When I am not traveling on the Acela, I gauge the need for business class by my departure point. Since your Regional begins its route in Boston, you should have your pick of seats and car and won't have to scurry for places for instance like you would boarding in Providence RI, when the train could be quite full. I would never get on a long distance train for regional travel. Your potential to be on time decreases, and most people traveling are bringing coolers, luggage, pillows, etc. The regional trains tend to attract business travelers so I find the trains and bathrooms to be cleaner and less cluttered with "stuff".

When you leave Washington, you may prefer business because many many passengers board at Union Station, and you won't have to "hustle" to find a good seat. Many folks from D.C. however, do get off in Manhattan, so if you don't travel business class, you could always change your seats if they are not to your liking and take your seat ticket w/you. As for food, I would take a foldable cooler, get some heavenly sandwiches or salads from one of Boston great eateries and bring it on board. Same with Washington D.C. Nothing on Amtrak will trump what you can find in these two cities.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 11, 2008)

I'd take 66/67 for this, were I you, in BC. It will mean the train will occupy as little of the time you can spend on your vacation, because you'll sleep through most of the ride.


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## Steve4031 (Jun 11, 2008)

I think you should just go on the Acela, It has two classes of seats. Business and first. First class is 2 and 1 seating with meals included. It is very expensive for Bos to Was.

Business class on the Acela is 2 and 2 seating, but I believe those seats are more comfortable than the Amfleet I cars. Also the windows are much bigger on the Acela. The trip is also about 2 hours faster than a regional, IIRC. I would recommend BC on the Acela.

Good luck.

Note that you get 500 AGR points if you ride the acela. On a regional, you just get 2 points per dollar spent.


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## printman2000 (Jun 12, 2008)

Steve4031 said:


> Business class on the Acela is 2 and 2 seating, but I believe those seats are more comfortable than the Amfleet I cars. Also the windows are much bigger on the Acela. The trip is also about 2 hours faster than a regional, IIRC. I would recommend BC on the Acela.


It is not 2 hours is it? More like an hour and 20 minutes faster?

Also, is that time difference more from the speed of Acela or the fact it does not stop as much?


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## AlanB (Jun 12, 2008)

printman2000 said:


> Also, is that time difference more from the speed of Acela or the fact it does not stop as much?


It's both factors that reduce its overall run time.


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## The Metropolitan (Jun 12, 2008)

Personally, I've never found BC to be attractive to me on the NEC for my travels. It just seems too much to pay for too little. But on a WAS-BOS run, I might well consider it since you're on the train for so long. Still, as others have noted, sometimes the "BC" difference is little more than a separate coach that is just like the rest of the train with drink and newspaper privleges. If you have a 2-1 BC car (doubtful), it gets more attractive, though the Metroliner type cars are nice too, even though you can commonly find these running in coach class as well.

As for outlets, since you'd be getting on at the first station, you should have your pick of the litter as far as coaches go, so you could almost certainly get a pair of seats with outlets, possibly in a BC style car (look for curtains and footrests).

Acela to me is an occasional splurge, but can be a pricey one at that. It actually only saves about 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes over the Regional for the full distance of the NEC. The WAS-BOS city pair is pretty much its most attractive price point in some ways, as the Acela ticket may only be about $50 more than a COACH Regional ticket depending upon the time. Add in the BC upgrade on the Regional and the price is practically even for Acela vs. BC Regional.

As to AGR points, there is a promotion now for double points for BC tickets on the NEC, which would give you a minimum of 500 points for travelling the full length of the corridor in a BC Regional ($83 min fare + $42 upgrade = $125 ticket x 2 pts/$ = 250 points x double points = 500 points)


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 12, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> Acela to me is an occasional splurge, but can be a pricey one at that. It actually only saves about 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes over the Regional for the full distance of the NEC. The WAS-BOS city pair is pretty much its most attractive price point in some ways, as the Acela ticket may only be about $50 more than a COACH Regional ticket depending upon the time. Add in the BC upgrade on the Regional and the price is practically even for Acela vs. BC Regional.


Or it may not be such a small difference. I was playing around with some random dates in September last night, and some the Acela Business Class tickets were over $200, whereas a lot of the coach tickets on the Regional were $83.

And the cost of the Acela relative to the Regional will probably only get worse; Amtrak has a bunch of coaches they are refurbishing to make the Regional trains longer, but lengthening the Acela trains would require having new equipment built. And my understanding is that they don't have spare electric locomotives that would allow them to run more Regional trains. (If they could run more Regional trains, that might open up the possibility of running express Regional trains with sets of stops similar to the Acela but Regional style equipment.)

AGR has been offering me double points for business class trips on the Regional on certain dates; does that double the rail points towards AGR select status?


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 12, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I'd take 66/67 for this, were I you, in BC. It will mean the train will occupy as little of the time you can spend on your vacation, because you'll sleep through most of the ride.


I did not sleep well in coach when I took #67 last summer, and I'm skeptical that a business class upgrade would have made any real difference there. (I've slept quite well on Viewliners, though.) And #66/#67 is slower than the other Regionals.


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## amamba (Jun 12, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> Acela to me is an occasional splurge, but can be a pricey one at that. It actually only saves about 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes over the Regional for the full distance of the NEC. The WAS-BOS city pair is pretty much its most attractive price point in some ways, as the Acela ticket may only be about $50 more than a COACH Regional ticket depending upon the time. Add in the BC upgrade on the Regional and the price is practically even for Acela vs. BC Regional.


Wow. only $50 more? That would be a steal. In actuality, the price of the coach on the regional trains one way is $85ish for one person, the cost for BC is that plus an $84 supplement, and then the acela is $175-200ish one way per person. I am looking in September, but I guess I'm not at the cheapest bucket and waited too long to book.

I think if the acela was less expensive more people would take it. It shaves over 90 minutes off the time of the regional train from BOS-WAS.


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## the_traveler (Jun 12, 2008)

amamba said:


> The Metropolitan said:
> 
> 
> > Acela to me is an occasional splurge, but can be a pricey one at that. It actually only saves about 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes over the Regional for the full distance of the NEC. The WAS-BOS city pair is pretty much its most attractive price point in some ways, as the Acela ticket may only be about $50 more than a COACH Regional ticket depending upon the time. Add in the BC upgrade on the Regional and the price is practically even for Acela vs. BC Regional.
> ...


I was just looking at the prices for WAS-KIN (about 1 hour south of BOS). AE does not stop here, so I can't compare the 2 directly. Looking on the afternoon of 6/29, the cost for the 3 trains shown are all $78 one way. The upgrade to BC is $39 one way.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jun 12, 2008)

Amtrak has no shortage of Acela riders. Those trains are often sardine cans.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 13, 2008)

amamba said:


> We are literally going from Boston, South Station to Washington, DC, Union Station.
> My understanding was that many of the long distance trains don't go all the way up to Boston and we are really limited to the NE Regional Trains or the Acela only. Is that incorrect? We don't want to change trains in the middle of the trip.


The only reasonable trains in that case are indeed the Regional and Acela trains. The only other Amtrak trains that serve Boston at all are the Lake Shore Limited (though only the Albany to Boston stub train of the Lake Shore Limited, and the stub train looks an awful lot like a short Regional train, but with a diesel locomotive and a combined cafe and business class car that I think always has 2-1 seating in business class), and the Downeaster. The Downeaster heads up to Maine, and operates out of North Station and not South Station.

Most of the long distance trains being discussed, in their southbound and/or westbound direction, start at New York Penn Station, head to Washington Union Station, and continue from there, the exception being the Vermonter which goes from Vermont to Springfield MA to New Haven CT to NYP to WAS.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 13, 2008)

The Metropolitan said:


> Personally, I've never found BC to be attractive to me on the NEC for my travels. It just seems too much to pay for too little. But on a WAS-BOS run, I might well consider it since you're on the train for so long. Still, as others have noted, sometimes the "BC" difference is little more than a separate coach that is just like the rest of the train with drink and newspaper privleges. If you have a 2-1 BC car (doubtful), it gets more attractive, though the Metroliner type cars are nice too, even though you can commonly find these running in coach class as well.


If Amtrak wanted to provide more legroom for business class on all Regional trains, how hard would it be for them to adjust the seat pitch as part of the Amfleet I refurbishing program on however many coaches they'd need to offer a Bussiness Class section on each train that has nicer seats than coach? The displaced less-legroom coach cars could then be used for coach class passengers, so it shouldn't change the number of cars they'd need to refurbish to accomodate a given number of passengers unless they were relying on being able to sell more business class tickets than there are seats in a car with the increased legroom.


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## amamba (Jun 13, 2008)

Joel N. Weber II said:


> amamba said:
> 
> 
> > We are literally going from Boston, South Station to Washington, DC, Union Station.
> ...


I'm actually quite familiar with the Downeaster. I take a commuter train via MBTA into North Station everyday, so I always see the Downeaster sitting in the station. I've only taken it once, though. I wish the downeaster went a little farther north, like at least up to Brunswick, ME where I went to college. I would think that they would have a great market for the train to go farther north.


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## AlanB (Jun 13, 2008)

amamba said:


> I wish the downeaster went a little farther north, like at least up to Brunswick, ME where I went to college. I would think that they would have a great market for the train to go farther north.


They're starting to do things to get that service going.

From Trainriders/Northeast, newsletter from spring 2008:



> Maine's legislature approved a rail funding bill that will allow for the expansion of passenger rail service beyond Portland, ME to Brunswick, ME. This extension of the Downeaster will in turn open up connections to Rockland, Lewiston-Auburn, and other points in Maine. It will take $31.5 million to refurbish about 28 miles of track (owned by Pan Am Railways). If that funding is found, revenue service could be in place as early as 2010.


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## Joel N. Weber II (Jun 14, 2008)

In the short term, the bigger question is whether they're going to find money to keep the Downeaster going at all when the federal subsidies go away, which I think is less than a year away.


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## AmtrakCrescent20 (Jun 14, 2008)

Actually most Regionals do use an Amfleet I car with Amfleet II-style seating--the extra legroom and larger seats etc. However, as others have said, sometimes a regular Amfleet I coach substitutes, while sometimes one of the "coaches" is actually a business class car.


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