# Amtrak has golden opportunity this summer



## MIrailfan (May 3, 2021)

T heres a possible gas shortage due to short age of tanker truck drivers for gasoline. Amtrak should promote rail as an alternative to driving! Discount at first than increase if demand goes up.


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## Cal (May 3, 2021)

Not quite sure what to think, it'll be interesting how this discussion unfolds. 

I will say, Amtrak sleepers are already pretty full right now.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> T heres a possible gas shortage due to short age of tanker truck drivers for gasoline. Amtrak should promote rail as an alternative to driving! Discount at first than increase if demand goes up.


Trains use diesel, which is also hauled by tanker trucks, so I'm not sure where you're going with this?


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## MIrailfan (May 3, 2021)

SarahZ said:


> Trains use diesel, which is also hauled by tanker trucks, so I'm not sure where you're going with this?


The trains operate no matter passenger load. If people who drive ride the train, that train uses same gas but the cars of the people wouldn't use gas.


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## MIrailfan (May 3, 2021)

Cal said:


> Not quite sure what to think, it'll be interesting how this discussion unfolds.
> 
> I will say, Amtrak sleepers are already pretty full right now.


thats a good sign for Amtrak.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> The trains operate no matter passenger load. If people who drive ride the train, that train uses same gas but the cars of the people wouldn't use gas.


I think commuters are the larger concern.


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## MIrailfan (May 3, 2021)

SarahZ said:


> I think commuters are the larger concern.


 Coaster, Met rolink, Sounder, Metra, etc.


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## SarahZ (May 3, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> Coaster, Metrolink, Sounder, Metra, etc.


So what do all of the commuters who don't live in major metropolitan areas do?

What are we supposed to do in Michigan, for example?


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## Michigan Mom (May 3, 2021)

Rail and light rail is always promoted as an alternative to driving where it's available.
The golden opportunity you are seeing, has been a golden opportunity for a long time.
It all depends where you live.


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## MIrailfan (May 4, 2021)

SarahZ said:


> So what do all of the commuters who don't live in major metropolitan areas do?
> 
> What are we supposed to do in Michigan, for example?


drive. theres no big commutetrafficin michign.


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## Willbridge (May 4, 2021)

Having been through these cycles several times I can tell you that there are both good and bad points.

The good points are the consequent political support for alternative modes and additional revenue for transport providers that have fuel. The bad points are that customers who are forced to switch modes have a bad attitude and the reservation system gets overloaded.


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## Cal (May 4, 2021)

Also, I will say. Amtrak has had tons of golden opportunities in the past. And how many of them did they actually act upon?


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## Willbridge (May 4, 2021)

Here's a balanced discussion of the gasoline trucking situation:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/summer-scramble-for-gasoline-on-tap-amid-tank-truck-driver-shortage

The problem that the article doesn't cover is that when random outages occur, people keep topping their tanks up. During the (1972) 1973-1974 (1975) Energy Crisis we informally calculated that Oregonians had doubled the inventory of gasoline stored in their gas tanks. Even without the 'help' of social media there were rumors of ships offshore holding back petroleum. Actually, it was motorists doing the hoarding.

When people saw a green flag station (one that had supplies) they would get into line to top off their tanks. This photo from my neighborhood back then shows the other traffic tied up due to a loss of a lane occupied by gas-seekers.


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## railiner (May 4, 2021)

Maybe time to buy some Tesla stock?


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## MARC Rider (May 4, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> drive. theres no big commute traffic in michign.


I've been caught in lots of traffic jams in the Detroit area. Last time I heard, that was part of Michigan.


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## MARC Rider (May 4, 2021)

Cal said:


> Also, I will say. Amtrak has had tons of golden opportunities in the past. And how many of them did they actually act upon?


Actually, with the exception of the long-distance service, Amtrak service today is far superior to the passenger rail available in 1971. And at least today, there's strong political support in Congress for at least maintaining the existing long-distance network, unlike 1971, when everybody was expecting long-distance rail travel to just die.


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## me_little_me (May 4, 2021)

MARC Rider said:


> I've been caught in lots of traffic jams in the Detroit area. Last time I heard, that was part of Michigan.


Those weren't traffic jams. Those were parked GM and Ford cars that never sold.


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## MARC Rider (May 4, 2021)

me_little_me said:


> Those weren't traffic jams. Those were parked GM and Ford cars that never sold.


Let me tell you a secret. I used to drive my own car out to southeast Michigan for work trips before I discovered that renting a car was cheaper. Let's just say that when I drove my own car out there, it wasn't the only Honda running around on the local roads.


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## SarahZ (May 4, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> drive. theres no big commutetrafficin michign.


Speaking as someone who used to commute in Metro Detroit, I can say, with confidence, that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

Also, you may want to check out 94 between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek and 131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids.


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## MIrailfan (May 4, 2021)

ive livedin sandiego. Detroits is Sunday driving compared to there. GRand rapids to Kalamazoo is slow Iadmit but it Moves. And has 3 lanes eachway inseadof 5 wach way in cali.


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## Cal (May 4, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> ive livedin sandiego. Detroits is Sunday driving compared to there. GRand rapids to Kalamazoo is slow Iadmit but it Moves. And has 3 lanes eachway inseadof 5 wach way in cali.


Yep, I'm in the LA area .Traffic get's bad


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## MIrailfan (May 4, 2021)

SarahZ said:


> Speaking as someone who used to commute in Metro Detroit, I can say, with confidence, that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
> 
> Also, you may want to check out 94 between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek and 131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids.


Kalamazoo to Grand Rapids could use commuter rail.


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## Palmetto (May 5, 2021)

Bring back SEMTA and properly fund it this time.


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## Tlcooper93 (May 5, 2021)

MBTA service is restored in Boston to pre-pandemic levels, which is good because in 2019, there were several studies that concluded that Boston had the worst congestion in the country. Such a shame given the city's extensive transit network.

MBTA is great (for the US), but the current much needed projects like new Orange Line cars, and Green Line extension is really good. Getting across the river is tough, and nobody wants to sit in traffic. Summer in cities is going to be crazy. Everyone is going to want to get out and do stuff, and transpo needs to be ready!


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## LookingGlassTie (May 5, 2021)

It's possible that whatever is causing the truck driver shortage will also affect Amtrak.

And as SarahZ mentioned upthread, Amtrak locomotives (most of them) use diesel, so that has to be accounted for.


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## SarahZ (May 5, 2021)

MIRAILFAN said:


> ive livedin sandiego. Detroits is Sunday driving compared to there. GRand rapids to Kalamazoo is slow Iadmit but it Moves. And has 3 lanes eachway inseadof 5 wach way in cali.


That’s not my point. You said Michigan doesn’t have commuters.

You didn’t specify how long a traffic jam on 275, the Lodge, 696, or 94/23 through Ann Arbor had to be to qualify as “commuting”.


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## MIrailfan (May 5, 2021)

SarahZ said:


> That’s not my point. You said Michigan doesn’t have commuters.
> 
> You didn’t specify how long a traffic jam on 275, the Lodge, 696, or 94/23 through Ann Arbor had to be to qualify as “commuting”.


you're right. sorry I misread.


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## Willbridge (May 11, 2021)

I spent a little time poking around the Flix, Greyhound Lines and Amtrak booking sites today, May 11th, now that the gas shortage ritual is underway.

1. For a different reason each time we start with curtailed public transport service.
2. For a different reason each time fuel supplies are interrupted or constricted.
3. State and federal officials reassure everyone that there's no problem.
4. Some people then rush to fill their tanks before the hoarders get it.
5. More people see the first line of eager gas buyers and cancel plans for the day so they can sit in line.
6. An inventory of almost double normal is carried in almost always full gas tanks.
7. Politicians blame someone.
8. Some transport systems respond to demand and others throw up their hands.
9. Very slowly, motorists seek alternatives. Even when the shortages in Oregon began in 1973, Greyhound Lines ridership peaked in February 1974 and then was unable to go higher due to shortages of drivers and buses.
10. If the problem is brief enough, whining is all that will result.

So far, travelers (testing Richmond to Baltimore pricing) do not seem to have shifted to either Flix, Greyhound or Amtrak. New Orleans to Baltimore looks tighter, but the big takeaway is the awful impression given by tri-weekly trains. Depending on the day of the week, New Orleans>Baltimore results in either no trains, an itinerary via Chicago or the _Crescent _route. Segments of these itineraries were already selling out before the public was alerted to the fuel supply glitch. There was no indication of extra cars being added.

One of the reasons for the early success of the _Coast Starlight _was the availability of lots of spare equipment left over from the huge cut in western lines. The second reason is that the management in LA expanded the consist with every spare car they could clean up, so that the tri-weekly train was run with 18 cars. Working at ODOT I was asked not to compliment them for this as DC headquarters did not know that was happening. In subsequent rushes for diverted riders the lid was kept on by raising fares.


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