# Where to go?



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 17, 2015)

The US Dollar is strong this year, so I'm planning some foreign travel. I started off with Canada and now I'm looking at other countries, too. Any suggestions for a destination that is safe, has some great scenery, and offers good value for money? I find natural scenery preferable to urban touring.

Please note that I will need a visa to visit most countries because I'm a Chinese citizen. Because I'll have many chances to visit Asia in the future, I'd like to go in a different direction this time.

Thanks.


----------



## The Davy Crockett (Apr 17, 2015)

I've got some ideas... :giggle:


----------



## oregon pioneer (Apr 17, 2015)

If it was me, I'd go to the UK and take the West Highland Line up to Mallaig, take a ferry to the Isle of Skye, then see if there was a bus (try this link) acrosss the Island to Kyle (to catch a different train back to Edinburgh). Or take some of the cool little Scottish post-buses to tiny coastal towns and soak up the scenery and local culture. It's been a long, long time since I did that, so maybe Edwin (caravan man) can tell us how it works now.

Or I'd go spend the summer solstice above the Arctic Circle. Start at Stockholm, and take the Arctic Circle loop trip up to Kiruna and Narvik, and back to Oslo. The trip involves a bus bridge from Narvik to Fauske, where you catch the Nordland Railway southwards to Oslo. There are some cool ferries on the bus bridge, because they could not put a track through there due to the terrain and deep fjords.

Keep us posted what you decide to do. Any way you do it, it's sure to be fun!


----------



## tp49 (Apr 17, 2015)

Thinking about visas and all maybe the thing to is look at traveling through the Schengen area in Europe. You would only need to get one visa that way and could visit whatever countries are in the Schengen Zone.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Apr 17, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> The US Dollar is strong this year, so I'm planning some foreign travel. I started off with Canada and now I'm looking at other countries, too. Any suggestions for a destination that is safe, has some great scenery, and offers good value for money? I find natural scenery preferable to urban touring. Please note that I will need a visa to visit most countries because I'm a Chinese citizen. Because I'll have many chances to visit Asia in the future, I'd like to go in a different direction this time. Thanks.


Not much to go on but I'll suggest Germany. I consider it to be safe, the natural scenery is stunning, and the experience is good value for money. My preference is Bavaria in general and Berchtesgaden in particular. You can dig into the history if you want or just enjoy the natural beauty. If you want to add some trains to the mix you can start in London and pass under the English Channel on Eurostar connecting in Paris to TGV and then put your trip on ICE as you make your way to Southern Germany.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 17, 2015)

I agree, Germany is a great destination, but I've already been to Germany. 

I was thinking perhaps Russia or maybe Bulgaria or Romania? Russia is an especially great deal this year. I just hope it's safe. People say the safety issues there are bloated. Getting a visa is tough, though I heard it may be easier for a Chinese citizen.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Apr 17, 2015)

Have you considered Central and South America! Affordable and many, many fascinating places and people!

If this was 20 years ago I'd say Mexico, but the damn cartels and the corrupt government ruined it!!!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 17, 2015)

Yes, sir, I'm considering destinations around the globe. Obviously not going to visit Syria, Iraq, or Sudan, though! Russia is just that place that's really cheap right now and I can visit a large country for only one visa. Certainly, in terms of value, it would be the best, but I'm open to any other ideas. The list is just huge right now. I don't have much to go on myself.


----------



## jis (Apr 18, 2015)

If you have not been there try either Norway or Switzerland.


----------



## tp49 (Apr 18, 2015)

If you did Bulgaria and Romania would it be both or one or the other? If it's both you'd need a visa for each. I've been to Bulgaria a couple of times and there are some things to see but I don't know if outside of a trip to a Black Sea resort if there's enough to do for a couple of weeks.

Have you visited any other countries in Western Europe? If not as I mentioned before look into getting a "Schengen Visa" which pretty much gets you into any Western European country but Bulgaria and Romania aren't in Schengen yet though they should at some point in the future.

Have you considered places in Africa as well? I hear Cape Town is a wonderful place. I'd love to go there.

Actually you know what...scrap that. If you're a Chinese passport holder do what many Americans would love to do but can't...go to Cuba! You can go there visa free just get a flight out of Canada or Central America.


----------



## railiner (Apr 18, 2015)

I don't know how expensive it is currently, but I would love to take the Trans-Siberian all the way...from Moscow to either Vladivostok or the new route to China...would be an incredible "bucket list" journey, no?

Here's one link I found, probably pricey, but there are other cheaper options out there....http://www.transsiberian-travel.com/trans-siberian-journeys/westbound.html?gclid=CLGjtLOw_8QCFajm7AodzG4AdA


----------



## caravanman (Apr 18, 2015)

Hi,

Just a few notes about the "post bus" situation... Sadly, the service is much reduced, only a handfull of routes still remain, but they do still operate... info on postbuses and an excellent site for "undiscovered Scotland", with public transport options is:

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usscotfax/travel/postbuses.html

Click on public transport options to see what is possible. Just for fun I looked up the mallaig to lochalsh connection and it is doable at a cost of just a few dollars, Ferry to Skye, bus to Lochalsh, easy! They also built a bridge from Lochalsh across to Skye since you were last here, Lolits !

Cheers!

Ed 

ps The UK is not part of that european visa scheme... beware!


----------



## railiner (Apr 18, 2015)

Those Post-buses sound like an excellent solution to public transportation in areas that don't otherwise have enough demand to support rural bus services, without heavy subsidies.

I would like to see an 'experimental' trial of similar here in the US and Canada....

When I first read your post, I thought they were something like the old Highway Post Offices used in the mid-century here, but those did not carry any passengers...they were a highway-going version of a Railway Post Office....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Post_Office and

http://postalmuseumblog.si.edu/highway-post-office/

It doesn't necessarily have to be operated by the USPS or a contractor for it...it could be run by UPS or FeDex, or anyone with a more or less regular delivery route...


----------



## jis (Apr 18, 2015)

Actually American Passport holders can generally go to Cuba as long as they do so from a third country. I know several people who have done so with not much problem.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 18, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions. I went on Google Street View to check out some of the places and also looked at TripAdvisor and other travel sites, especially for the places that don't have Street View yet. These allowed me to eliminate some countries.

My current options would be:


Russia
Romania
Bulgaria
Australia
Under consideration:


Bolivia
Portugal
UK


----------



## Bob Dylan (Apr 18, 2015)

jis said:


> Actually American Passport holders can generally go to Cuba as long as they do so from a third country. I know several people who have done so with not much problem.


Mexicans and Canadians have enjoyed this privilege since the ridiculous US Boycott began!
I've flown from Mexico City and Montreal to Havana, wonderful place with wonderful people! Everyone should go!!!

If the damn politicians would stop their hypocritical posturing and support Obamas common sense plan for normal relations with Cuba wed all benefit greatly!

The Cold War is over, we won!!!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 19, 2015)

Dang, look at this: https://blog.traveljunction.com/worlds-unfriendliest-countries/. 

According to that article, Bolivia, Russia, Bulgaria, and Romania are all poor destinations due to unfriendly people. China is also considered unfriendly. I'm not surprised. Many Chinese people are indeed very racist in private. They especially hate anyone with dark skin, and often call Africans "****s". I'm not racist, but people in China often get angry when I ask them to stop referring to Africans as "****s". So perhaps the article is right.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Apr 19, 2015)

That link doesn't bother to explain the methodology or their conclusions and it seems rather biased against countries that may not fit into a certain political mold. I wouldn't put much stock in a list like this. I was warned repeatedly that the French hated tourists, especially Americans, but when I visited France myself I found them surprisingly friendly and understanding. The least friendly people I've ever encountered as a tourist where right here in the USA. I think the key to enjoying a polite and friendly trip abroad is to go in with reasonable expectations and a calm attitude. If you don't allow yourself to play the role of the loud and obnoxious tourist then there's no reason for anyone to treat you poorly and little chance you'll have to worry about it.


----------



## caravanman (Apr 19, 2015)

I think one can "over think" these things... At the end of the day, just think what you want from your holiday, and try to find a suitable place.

Once you think it all through, you might find having a holiday in a different part of the USA suits you best!

In the UK we speak English, so that might be helpful to you if you don't speak any other languages?

Ed


----------



## jis (Apr 19, 2015)

Ed, I am thinking of taking the Caledonian Sleeper from London to Inverness over the U.S. Thanksgiving break. I will probably be using a 4 day Britrail Pass. Any expert advice?


----------



## caravanman (Apr 19, 2015)

Hi Jis,

I think I have far more experience of Amtrak, than of UK longer haul trains!

Probably UK trains involve less ID and security fuss. It might be worth checking what eating options there are aboard the train.

I imagine it will be an interesting ride, particularly in the morning once in Scotland. What else are you doing while here?

If you prefer to PM me, that is fine. I will cast around for any other information that I can find, meantime.

Ed


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 19, 2015)

The way I see it is that I have plenty of chances to travel within the US, but not many to travel abroad. Besides, I came to the US when I was very small, and I've been all over the country. Of course there's still many places to see, but I just want to take advantage of the strong dollar and travel abroad this year.

I'm not going to trust those articles about "friendly" and "unfriendly" countries, though. All I can say is that Chinese people are less friendly to me than Americans.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 20, 2015)

So, if I get a UK visa, can I go to Ireland with the same visa?


----------



## caravanman (Apr 20, 2015)

Southern Ireland (Eire) is a seperate country and government to the United Kingdom, so any visa for the UK will not be valid in Eire.

I have no knowledge of Eire visa requirements for Chinese tourists, having said that, you may find that the Eire visa is easy to get.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, so you would be able to visit that part .

I would not worry too much about countries being friendly or not, most ordinary folk are pleasant enough!

If I were you, and you can get a visa without too much cost or hassle, Russia would be my destination... but you and I are quite different, methinks!

Why not consider going somewhere interesting as part of an organised tour group, you would have help from guides and tour leaders, and while you don't have the same freedom to do as you please, it might help you to see parts of the world that could be tricky on your own... They often organise all the visa's etc for everyone too.

Ed


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Apr 20, 2015)

Technically you have to be "invited" to visit Russia, which can make for some rather confusing and irrational paradoxes in today's world. For instance, if you first buy a hotel room then the _hotel itself_ can invite you to visit the country. Sounds completely bass ackwards to me but in a practical sense it's not that different from how many other countries operate and I guess it somehow makes sense to them. The more you travel abroad the more you begin to see just how silly and outdated various bureaucratic functions have become over time.


----------



## caravanman (Apr 20, 2015)

Yes, I often think the "tourist development" departments don't seem to have much say in making the tourists feel welcomed to visit in the first place!

A lot of it seems to be about reciprocal responses... "poorer" countries try to treat the "richer" countries tourists in the same way they are treated... which makes the richer tourist avoid the poorer country, and scores an own goal... Politicians like to throw their muscle around even at the cost to their own economy, I guess!

Ed


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 20, 2015)

I don't think I'm that different from you, Ed. We both love to travel and we both travel independently or with a travel buddy. You don't travel with a tour group much, do you? You're willing to try out new things, right? I barely ever travel with a tour group and I love trying out new things (as long as its safe), so that makes us similar.

Anyway, I don't know how I would get that "tourist invitation" for Russia. I did find out that Scandinavia is not as expensive as I had thought. I also found out about Iceland and Greece. So here's my current options:

1. Russia
2. Norway/Sweden/Finland
3. Ireland
4. Iceland
5. Bulgaria
6. Romania
7. Greece
8. UK

Under Consideration:
1. Croatia
2. Bosnia
3. Poland/Czech/Austria/Slovenia/Hungary/Slovakia


----------



## oregon pioneer (Apr 20, 2015)

Swadian, you have some wonderful choices there. Itsounds like wherever you go, you are going to have a grand time! I hope you'll let us know how it all turns out.


----------



## tp49 (Apr 20, 2015)

Greece is in Schengen which would open up a number of your under consideration countries under your #3 to you. Might not be a bad idea. I still think for bang for the buck getting a Schengen visa gives you more choices for places to go.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 21, 2015)

True. I just wish the Balkans were in the Schengen Area or Bulgaria and Romania.


----------



## Devil's Advocate (Apr 21, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I don't know how I would get that "tourist invitation" for Russia.


If you want to visit Russia the hotel you book will "invite" you on your own behalf. Or your tour will invite you. The invitation requirement is silly and arrogant but it's not what I would consider a true impediment. Every country I've ever visited expected me to have a specific destination already established when entering, with or without a formal invitation.



Swadian Hardcore said:


> I did find out that Scandinavia is not as expensive as I had thought.


I have no way of knowing what you thought previously but I'm hard pressed to think of a destination _more_ expensive than Scandinavia. For most of my life Oslo has been recognized as the single most expensive city in the world. Even if my salary doubled or tripled I would struggle to maintain a similar standard of living. Not the sort of place on which I'd focus if value for money was a serious consideration. That being said, if you're willing to spend good money I've heard wonderful things about Ireland.


----------



## tp49 (Apr 21, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> True. I just wish the Balkans were in the Schengen Area or Bulgaria and Romania.


Bulgaria's ascent to Schengen's been talked about for a while right now I've heard air borders opening up sometime this year and land borders around 2017. Being Bulgaria of course I'll believe it when I see it. I'm going there (and Romania next month) I'll report back what I hear while there.


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Apr 21, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know how I would get that "tourist invitation" for Russia.
> ...


Same with Iceland. Really want to get out there, but even with the WOW Air flying there the land portion of the trip adds up very quickly.


----------



## Bob Dylan (Apr 21, 2015)

I totally agree that the Scandinavian Countries are very expensive!

I have friends that live in Denmark ( Copenhagen) and they go to Germany to shop and other European countries, especially Eastern Europe, on getaways due to the high costs of everything in Denmark, Sweden and Norway!

Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen generally give the Swiss Cities,, London and Paris a run for the most expensive places in Europe to visit and to live comfortably!

Of course the Euro is weak right now against the Dollar so you might book a good deal!


----------



## white rabbitt (Apr 21, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> I totally agree that the Scandinavian Countries are very expensive!
> 
> I have friends that live in Denmark ( Copenhagen) and they go to Germany to shop and other European countries, especially Eastern Europe, on getaways due to the high costs of everything in Denmark, Sweden and Norway!
> 
> ...


Jim Copenhagen is the Austin of Denmark


----------



## Bob Dylan (Apr 21, 2015)

LOL! Were getting there, but it's more like New York City, San Francisco, Honolulu or Washington!!!


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 21, 2015)

Looks like the train tickets are indeed expensive in Scandinavia. I don't travel with tour groups so I would have to get the Russian tourist invitation from a hotel. The problem is, what if I overnight on a train going from Moscow to Saint Petersburg? Apparently, the invitations only cover the period that one stays in the hotel. Even worse, what if I book a non-refundable hotel and the visa gets denied?

I do have this feeling that I'm overthinking this. A lot of Chinese people visit Russia and I haven't heard of problems.

Iceland has been eliminated because it's just too expensive and offers poor value.

So now I'm down to the Schengen Visa countries, Ireland, Bulgaria, and Romania. Under consideration are Russia, Croatia, Bosnia, and the UK. Russia becomes an option if I can figure out how to get the visa. Croatia and Bosnia both require individual visas and are small countries. The UK is too expensive right now, with the lowest airfare at $1350 R/T out of SFO. The UK becomes an option if airfares come down.

BTW, cool deals to Moscow, Milan, and Istanbul right now. Also, great deals to Muscat, but Oman is too hot for me, I think. Reno is hot enough.


----------



## tp49 (Apr 21, 2015)

Bulgaria and Romania aren't Schengen yet so you'd need individual visas for both. Greece is Schengen but you can get a cheap flight on a low cost airline from there to another Schengen country.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 21, 2015)

The way my options are right now is that I can either visit any number of the Schengen countries or I could visit Ireland, Bulgaria, or Romania by themselves. I think I could get a tourist invitation to Russia, but it won't be easy. The agencies that "sell" invitations often don't sell them to Chinese citizens in the US.

Edit: Is this a trusted source for a Russian tourist invitation? http://www.russian-voucher.com/.

Another one: http://ivisa.ru/en/.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 22, 2015)

I updated the list again today:
1. Russia
2. Ireland
3. Bulgaria
4. Poland/Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania

Lots of eliminations for Southern Europe due to hot weather and high airfares. I'm the kind that rather be out walking than sitting on the beach. Summers in those eliminated countries are simply too hot for that. The Balkans were eliminated due to high airfares and them not being in the Schengen Area. Some other countries (such as the UK) were eliminated due to high airfares.


----------



## CCC1007 (Apr 22, 2015)

I have noticed that Iceland air from Seattle to Paris is reasonable price.

You could easily get to Seattle.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 22, 2015)

But I don't want to go to Paris. Too expensive of a city and I'm not interested. I looked through every single country in Europe and it's pretty much just these four options: Russia, Bulgaria, Ireland, and Poland/Baltics.


----------



## CCC1007 (Apr 22, 2015)

You can use Paris as the gateway to the rest of Europe.

Poland should be accessible from Paris.


----------



## Swadian Hardcore (Apr 22, 2015)

Sorry, I'm not interested.

Preliminary decision is Russia.


----------

