# LIRR Service Suspened into and out of Penn Station



## Viewliner (Feb 14, 2003)

According to NBC 4 Cable on an LIRR Train Hit the Third Rail on Track 21 at 3:45. No Injuries have been reported, and no word on Amtrak or NJ Transit, so I can only assume they're running as they're powered by the overhead Catenary, and have different track assignments, and use different parts of the station.

A,C,E,1,2, and 3 all are bypassing Penn Station, All LIRR Service is Suspended into and Out Of Penn Station, and will remain so until the authorities finish their investingation.

The LIRR Part of Penn Station at least was evacuated.

More Updates will come as they're broadcast, which will be around 5:00 EST.


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## Viewliner (Feb 14, 2003)

Updates:

Fire has been extingusihed, there was a smoke condition in the LIRR part.

NJT has been operating and their part (Amtrak's) is open, and the A, C, and E trains are stopping now, LIRR Service should be resuming in 30-45 minutes. Its the 1, 2, and 3 continue to bypass Penn Station.


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

> Fire department officials say that a loose cable hit the electrified third rail of the track causing the fire at about 3:45.
> Long Island railroad officials shut down power to the line so that firefighters could extinguish the fire. Firefighters have since put the fire out.


Here's a brief update from WNBC Channel 4 NY.


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## battalion51 (Feb 14, 2003)

Why would the Subways be affected by a power shutdown inside Penn Lines? Also this is more of a theory question, wouldn't Empire Service be affected? Also does LIRR use third rail power? Also how do out of service trains on Empire Service trains get to Sunnyside?


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## Viewliner (Feb 14, 2003)

LIRR, and Empire Service are the only ones (other than the subway to use 3rd rail power). The subways are located on the LIRR Part of the station and are also MTA run, and they didn't want any issues with the smoke. Empire Service is on a different part of the station than the LIRR. So its probably unaffected.


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

battalion51 said:


> Why would the Subways be affected by a power shutdown inside Penn Lines? Also this is more of a theory question, wouldn't Empire Service be affected? Also does LIRR use third rail power? Also how do out of service trains on Empire Service trains get to Sunnyside?


Subways are out partly due to what Viewliner said, both the 8th Avenue and the 7th Avenue lines have direct entrances to the LIRR level of Penn. They don't have direct entrances to the Amtrak/NJ Transit level.

So with the LIRR portion of the station closed and full of smoke, allowing people to exit here would land them in heavy smoke.

The second reason is simply the fact that it's rush hour right now, even if they block off the LIRR entrances while leaving the rest of the street entrances open, there is no place for the people to go. I'm seeing live shots from a news chopper and there are thousands of people standing on the street around Penn Station. In fact one lane of 7th Avenue is full of people, not cars.

Now it should also be noted, the subways are actually running, they are just not stopping at 34th Street/Penn Station. At present the 8th Avenue line trains, A, C, E are stopping at Penn, only the 7th Avenue lines 1, 2, 3, & 9 are still bypassing Penn.

As for the Empire Service, that typically comes in on tracks 4, 5, or 6 (ocasionally they go to even higher number tracks). The LIRR fire is on track 21, so I'm sure that they have only turned off third rail power to tracks right in that area (19,20,22).

Yes the LIRR uses third rail power, just like Empire Service. In fact it's the LIRR's third rail that made Empire Service possible at Penn. Otherwise Amtrak would have needed to find diesels that can also run on overhead catenary.

Northbound Amtrak trains from Penn, the LIRR and Empire Service trains all use the East River tunnels to reach Queens. There are also connections right outside the East River tunnels for the Sunnyside yard.


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

NBC Channel 4 is now reporting that all trains into and out of Penn are now suspended. This includes Amtrak, NJT, and the LIRR.

No word on why all trains have been suspended.


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

According to the News Channel 4 update page that I linked to above, the LIRR has started to resume service as of 6:40 PM tonight.

I suspect that there are still massive delays, with equipment completely out of position.


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## tp49 (Feb 14, 2003)

There was a Newsday article on their website about the situation. They stated that a live power line under platform 11 (Track 20-21) hit the wheel of a train on one of those tracks causing the heavy smoke condition. Glad I don't have to commute anymore


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## battalion51 (Feb 14, 2003)

OK so answer me this. Are there third rail connections in the Hudson river tunnels? :huh:


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

battalion51 said:


> OK so answer me this. Are there third rail connections in the Hudson river tunnels? :huh:


No, only catenary.


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## Superliner Diner (Feb 14, 2003)

> As for the Empire Service, that typically comes in on tracks 4, 5, or 6 (ocasionally they go to even higher number tracks).


It's Tracks 5,6,7,8. I am not sure if it's possible for them to get anywhere higher than Track 8 -- I doubt the crossovers to get to 9 and above exist west of the station. I've also never seen any Empire (or any Amtrak) trains on Track 4 -- since 1,2,3,4 are stub-ended at the east end (no access to the East River tunnels and thus Sunnyside) and so are strictly NJ TRANSIT.

NJT MU's or push-pull trains can simply change direction on Tracks 1,2,3,4 but Empire trains have a P-32 dual mode engine on the point which would have to be run around the train -- impossible on stub tracks. I've never seen these operate in "push" fashion.


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## AlanB (Feb 14, 2003)

Superliner Diner said:


> It's Tracks 5,6,7,8. I am not sure if it's possible for them to get anywhere higher than Track 8 -- I doubt the crossovers to get to 9 and above exist west of the station. I've also never seen any Empire (or any Amtrak) trains on Track 4 -- since 1,2,3,4 are stub-ended at the east end (no access to the East River tunnels and thus Sunnyside) and so are strictly NJ TRANSIT.
> NJT MU's or push-pull trains can simply change direction on Tracks 1,2,3,4 but Empire trains have a P-32 dual mode engine on the point which would have to be run around the train -- impossible on stub tracks. I've never seen these operate in "push" fashion.


I seem to recall leaving on the LSL once off of track #9, although I could be wrong. But I know that I was way over by comparison to what's normal for trains running up to Albany.

I'm sure that you're right about Amtrak not using tracks 1 - 4, however if they were to use those tracks a run around might not be necessary. Of late many Empire Service trains are running with two loco's, one on each end. This way they don't have to run out to Sunnyside to turn around. They just remain on the track in Penn until it's time to head back to Albany. Then the engineer climbs into the loco on the rear and heads out.


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## battalion51 (Feb 14, 2003)

I have seen a P-32 AC-DM in push mode solo before. It was hooked up to the sole Turboliner set. Since the Turboliners do not use their engines anymore one of the power cars (2139) was acting as a cab control of sorts.


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