# Bolt Bus Coming to the Northwest



## CHamilton

Bolt Bus Coming to the Northwest



> Bolt Bus has chosen Seattle-Portland as its first route outside of the Northeastern corridor. Fares will be between $6 and $9 normally, but if you reserve your ticket on the opening day service on May 17th, the fare will be only $1 (at least they were for me). Bolt Bus, which is owned and operated by Greyhound, will operate four buses per day, each with wi-fi, power outlets and large seats.


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## fairviewroad

Well, you can't beat the price. And their schedule between Seattle and Portland (and back) is strikingly similar to the Cascades schedule

(with the notable exception that Bolt Bus makes no intermediate stops...sorry, Tacoma/Olympia/Longview/etc!)

Another difference of course is the curbside terminals...could be a real deal-killer in the long rainy winters, but at least they're starting at the

right time of year, weather-wise. The Seattle location appears to be near some transit-style canopies that would offer some protection from

the rain...but AFAICT the PDX location is a bare sidewalk in front of a parking garage. King St Station and Union Station are the clear winners

in both cases.

Will this take some customers from Amtrak? Absolutely, especially with the near-term publicity boost they'll get in the media. But at the

end of the day, it's still a bus ride....the Cascades will still offer the better experience by far.


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## afigg

The $8 and $10 prices are clearly service introductory prices. They may keep a handful of seats at the really cheap price, but will go to $15 to $25 prices, if the prices if Boltbus charges in the northeast are any guide. Still pretty cheap.

The Boltbus trip time is 3:15 versus 3:30 for the Cascades so the bus will have an edge in trip time, but a small one. The Cascade trains will get faster between Seattle and Portland, but I think significant improvements in trip time are 4-5 years away.

This service could take some ridership away from the Cascades, but there has been no obvious erosion of ridership on any of the Amtrak corridors that compete head to head with Megabus and Boltbus. Except perhaps for the Vermonter. There could be some synergy component that we have not considered in that the discount buses likely get business from people who would normally drive. Those passengers realize that they can get around at their destination without a car and like not having to drive. Then they learn that they can also take Amtrak, and if they can afford to pay a little more, try Amtrak instead. Having both discount direct bus and passenger train options between major markets for 2-6 hour trips may result in growth for both by expanding the market and getting people take the train or bus over driving or ever more expensive airfares.

As for the curb side pickup, in DC, Megabus and Boltbus were pressured to switch to using the DC Union Station parking garage. DC government and police got tired of dealing with the traffic and crowd problems caused by the curbside pickup locations. So they and Greyhound moved to the parking garage and are now paying an access fee for use of the garage. I saw an article that NYC is considering clamping down on the curb side buses as well, but does not have an obvious candidate for the buses to move to. More of the big cities will likely do the same, which will push up the cost overhead for the discount bus services.


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## fairviewroad

With just 4 departures a day, I think it will be a while before BoltBus is forced off the curbs in SEA or PDX. Kind of interesting that even though it's a subsidiary of Greyhound, they

don't use the Greyhound terminal. That tells me their target market is people who would never have considered an intercity bus before...(i.e. to them, there's a stigma

associated with riding Greyhound that doesn't exist when the Dog is out of sight, out of mind.)

And the edge in trip time is dependent on good traffic conditions....easy to hit slowdowns on I-5 coming into SEA or PDX. But I think 3hrs, 15 minutes non-stop does

include a bit of padding.


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## afigg

fairviewroad said:


> With just 4 departures a day, I think it will be a while before BoltBus is forced off the curbs in SEA or PDX. Kind of interesting that even though it's a subsidiary of Greyhound, they don't use the Greyhound terminal. That tells me their target market is people who would never have considered an intercity bus before...(i.e. to them, there's a stigma
> 
> associated with riding Greyhound that doesn't exist when the Dog is out of sight, out of mind.)


Yes, 4 buses a day won't be a big issue for curb side operation. But, Boltbus is obviously planning to expand service in the Northwest. Would not gone to the trouble if they didn't. It took a few years for Megabus operations to get to the point where DC acted. We are likely to see more big cities with traffic and people jams from the curb side operations start to try to crack down.

What Greyhound is doing is a common business tactic. Got a brand name with negative associations? Start a new subsidary with a different brand name and market strategy. With Megabus and the chinese discount buses cutting into the Greyhound market, start up Boltbus with a different website & look and follow the Megabus model.



fairviewroad said:


> And the edge in trip time is dependent on good traffic conditions....easy to hit slowdowns on I-5 coming into SEA or PDX. But I think 3hrs, 15 minutes non-stop does include a bit of padding.


One thing I'm curious about is what are the On Time Performance numbers for Megabus and Boltbus? Amtrak provides that info and we can monitor via Amtrak Status Map how close the trains are to their schedules. Don't know if Megabus or Boltbus provide that sort of info.


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## Texan Eagle

afigg said:


> One thing I'm curious about is what are the On Time Performance numbers for Megabus and Boltbus? Amtrak provides that info and we can monitor via Amtrak Status Map how close the trains are to their schedules. Don't know if Megabus or Boltbus provide that sort of info.


The three times I have taken Megabus in the Northeast, it has always arrived at the destination *before *published time, and this includes one journey that had to deal with the dreaded I-66 traffic going out of Washington DC. They put in some padding, but I guess their drivers overspeed too. For example, when I was in Virginia Tech, I used to go to DC often and knew it always took me around 4 hr 15 min from Christiansburg to DC going by my normal convention of exactly sticking to posted limit, but the one time I took Megabus, the cheerful young black dude driving the bus bolted (no pun intended) us in 4 hours flat! He wasn't rash, but fast for sure.


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## jebr

afigg said:


> This service could take some ridership away from the Cascades, but there has been no obvious erosion of ridership on any of the Amtrak corridors that compete head to head with Megabus and Boltbus. Except perhaps for the Vermonter. There could be some synergy component that we have not considered in that the discount buses likely get business from people who would normally drive. Those passengers realize that they can get around at their destination without a car and like not having to drive. Then they learn that they can also take Amtrak, and if they can afford to pay a little more, try Amtrak instead. Having both discount direct bus and passenger train options between major markets for 2-6 hour trips may result in growth for both by expanding the market and getting people take the train or bus over driving or ever more expensive airfares.


I can attest to the synergy component. I'm not sure how I stumbled on Megabus, but before that I had only briefly considered intercity public transportation. After using it last year and having an overall good experience (and seeing how much easier it is than driving or even flying), I decided to look into both that and other alternatives, including Amtrak. I've taken Amtrak once for a short distance, and I'm taking a longer trip this summer on Amtrak.



afigg said:


> One thing I'm curious about is what are the On Time Performance numbers for Megabus and Boltbus? Amtrak provides that info and we can monitor via Amtrak Status Map how close the trains are to their schedules. Don't know if Megabus or Boltbus provide that sort of info.


Megabus is generally on time, in my experience. There's one route that I've traveled on that's always late (because they don't schedule a required rest stop...it's PIT - DET), but I've usually been early getting in, and never more than a few minutes late arriving outside of that one route.


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## RRUserious

"Amtrak status map". That's on their smartphone app right? Someone on my Empire Builder ride showed me where we were on their smartphone, but I'm pretty sure that was some GPS mapping app. Air France does the same thing when you fly across the Atlantic. I like to skip from the entertainment (whatever it might be) and look at their map.


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## PRR 60

RRUserious said:


> "Amtrak status map". That's on their smartphone app right? Someone on my Empire Builder ride showed me where we were on their smartphone, but I'm pretty sure that was some GPS mapping app. Air France does the same thing when you fly across the Atlantic. I like to skip from the entertainment (whatever it might be) and look at their map.


Amtrak Status Maps is privately maintained by an AU member, not Amtrak. It is based on data from the Amtrak.com Train Status feature.

http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/.


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## RRUserious

PRR 60 said:


> RRUserious said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Amtrak status map". That's on their smartphone app right? Someone on my Empire Builder ride showed me where we were on their smartphone, but I'm pretty sure that was some GPS mapping app. Air France does the same thing when you fly across the Atlantic. I like to skip from the entertainment (whatever it might be) and look at their map.
> 
> 
> 
> Amtrak Status Maps is privately maintained by an AU member, not Amtrak. It is based on data from the Amtrak.com Train Status feature.
> 
> http://www.dixielandsoftware.com/.
Click to expand...

Don't quite get it, but doesn't matter.


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## CHamilton

Bolt Bus Adding Route in the PNW



> Tomorrow morning Bolt Bus will announce further expansion in the PNW, a route from Portland to Albany and Eugene, OR. Bolt Bus GM David Hall was nice enough to talk with me on the expansion.
> More will be released tomorrow, but the basic facts are:
> 
> 
> Service will start on Oct 3rd.
> All fares for the first four days from Portland to Eugene / Albany will be $1.
> Portland to Eugene / Albany buses will run 5 days a week, Thursday to Monday, with no runs Tuesday and Wednesday.
> On Thursdays and Sundays there will be one throughrouted bus from Seattle to Eugene, stopping in Portland along the way.
> On Fridays and Mondays the inverse will occur, a throughrouted bus from Eugene to Seattle.
> Also, as part of this expansion Bolt Bus will be adding service on the Portland to Seattle line during peak times.
> Quoting David: “This region continues to be a real home run for us, and we are looking at additional expansion probably next year.”


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## fairviewroad

Interesting that they seem to be skipping Salem. Wouldn't have thought that Albany would be a better choice than Salem,

I guess they're angling for the Oregon State University student market, but Albany isn't super convenient for OSU students

considering that Greyhound stops in Corvallis within walking distance of the campus. Salem is a larger city than Albany

and it would seem to offer several easy on/off options for a bus coming off of I-5.

I know their business model doesn't really include en route stops, but if that's the case then why stop in Albany at all?

A PDX-EUG route would probably do well on its own. I can't help but think, at the end of the day, that this new service

will eat into the ODOT sponsored Amtrak Thruway buses on this route.


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## Swadian Hardcore

On my frequent Greyhound rides, I have rarely seen college-age people on the buses. Since BoldBus in the PNW is fully owned by Greyhound, the same can be assumed for them.

Bolt needs at least daily buses to deal with demand in the area. I'm thinking the buses for this expansion must be from Greyhound's recent order of 90 Prevost X3-45 buses, the main type used by Bolt. I think Bolt uses the Grey Line garage in Seattle on Marginal Way, which is also used by regular Greyhound G4500s. Thus, they always need runs back to Seattle to service the buses.

While I'm unhappy at the propect of riding more G4500s if I visit the PNW, I do want to take advantage of Road Rewards so I will probably still use the G4500s. At least it's $13 compared to $25 on Amtrak, and I _will_ save that $12, thank you.

I don't know if Greyhound ever gets the BoltBus and the PNW operating pools mixed up, otherwise you could see a Bolt Prevost on 601 (VAN-SEA-PUT) and a G4500 as the BoltBus.


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## Eric S

Can the same clientele be assumed for BoltBus and Greyhound? I would imagine that BoltBus targets a similar market as Megabus does. Where I am, in the Midwest, I know college students who would (almost) never consider Greyhound (or Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines, Lamers Connect, and other intercity bus providers) do consider and ride Megabus (and Amtrak). (I realize Megabus does not operate in the Northwest, and BoltBus does not operate in the Midwest.)

Having said that, my knowledge of intercity bus travel is far less than yours, and my evidence is simply anecdotal (I work at a university).


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## jebr

Eric S said:


> Can the same clientele be assumed for BoltBus and Greyhound? I would imagine that BoltBus targets a similar market as Megabus does. Where I am, in the Midwest, I know college students who would (almost) never consider Greyhound (or Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines, Lamers Connect, and other intercity bus providers) do consider and ride Megabus (and Amtrak). (I realize Megabus does not operate in the Northwest, and BoltBus does not operate in the Midwest.)
> Having said that, my knowledge of intercity bus travel is far less than yours, and my evidence is simply anecdotal (I work at a university).


To be fair, many of those other services (outside of Greyhound) serve different markets than Megabus does. Just comparing against Jefferson Lines, the only somewhat similar markets are MKE - MSP and Madison - MSP. On both of those I don't think JL even tries to compete...they're serving as the "local" bus through there versus the Megabus "express" bus.

That being said, I think JL is trying to break out a bit through their "College Connection" program which serves colleges and offers connectivity to their larger network.


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## Eric S

Good point. I should have just limited my comparison to Greyhound versus Megabus.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Eric S said:


> Can the same clientele be assumed for BoltBus and Greyhound? I would imagine that BoltBus targets a similar market as Megabus does. Where I am, in the Midwest, I know college students who would (almost) never consider Greyhound (or Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines, Lamers Connect, and other intercity bus providers) do consider and ride Megabus (and Amtrak). (I realize Megabus does not operate in the Northwest, and BoltBus does not operate in the Midwest.)
> 
> Having said that, my knowledge of intercity bus travel is far less than yours, and my evidence is simply anecdotal (I work at a university).


Well, Bolt is owned by them, uses the same bus models, uses the same drivers, uses the same routes, etc. I buy Greyhound tickets online, I can do the same for BoltBus.

As a regular passenger, I would feel the same on BoltBus as Greyhound. If I put my "bus geek" hat on, the X3-45 does have curved sides compared to the straight sides on the G4500 and many of the other Greyhound buses that are irrelevent here because the other buses don't run in the Northwest. The G4500 does break down a lot more than any other Greyhound bus. But I doubt most bus passengers or college students would notice the difference.

These days a lot of Greyhound passengers I see are older people and families. On my last Greyhound trip, there was about a dozen middle-aged men, a family with small, a family with a teenager, a couple, a single young man with a big afro, two very large women in their 30s, an older woman, and the others I don't remember. Very few people were college-aged. We had a load of about 30-40 passengers.


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## Eric S

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Eric S said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can the same clientele be assumed for BoltBus and Greyhound? I would imagine that BoltBus targets a similar market as Megabus does. Where I am, in the Midwest, I know college students who would (almost) never consider Greyhound (or Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines, Lamers Connect, and other intercity bus providers) do consider and ride Megabus (and Amtrak). (I realize Megabus does not operate in the Northwest, and BoltBus does not operate in the Midwest.)
> 
> Having said that, my knowledge of intercity bus travel is far less than yours, and my evidence is simply anecdotal (I work at a university).
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Bolt is owned by them, uses the same bus models, uses the same drivers, uses the same routes, etc. I buy Greyhound tickets online, I can do the same for BoltBus.
Click to expand...

Same company, but different brands. Seems like it is at least possible that the different brands are targeting different market segments/passengers.


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## Trogdor

There's a very good reason why Bolt Bus is called Bolt Bus, and not "Greyhoud [somethong or another]." There are plenty of folks who swear off Greyhound who won't hesitate to buy a Bolt Bus ticket. Greyhound as a brand can be a liability with certain demographics, so calling it Bolt is Greyhound's way of getting people who otherwise wouldn't ride their buses to ride their buses.

(In a similar vein, there are folks who won't drink Starbucks coffee out of principle, but have no problem drinking "Seattle's Best" coffee.)


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## Swadian Hardcore

Trogdor said:


> There's a very good reason why Bolt Bus is called Bolt Bus, and not "Greyhoud [somethong or another]." There are plenty of folks who swear off Greyhound who won't hesitate to buy a Bolt Bus ticket. Greyhound as a brand can be a liability with certain demographics, so calling it Bolt is Greyhound's way of getting people who otherwise wouldn't ride their buses to ride their buses.
> 
> (In a similar vein, there are folks who won't drink Starbucks coffee out of principle, but have no problem drinking "Seattle's Best" coffee.)


Ha! Looks like there's good reason to mock those fools who miss the markings on Greyhound-BoltBus:

Operated By:

Greyhound Lines Inc.

Dallas, TX

USDOT 044110

Yeah, that's right! I would try BoltBus if there fares didn't go up higher than Greyhound's. It's $13 SEA-PUT on Greyhound, but often $20 or $25 on BoltBus. For that fare, I would just ride the Cascades. Very rare to get the advertised low fares on Bolt.

Whatever, those college students may be knowledgable in their own profession, but they're sure fools with transport! Missing the Operator tag.....


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## railiner

Greyhound and Peter Pan jointly started Bolt as a means to fight low cost, cut-rate carrier's on the Northeast Corridor, with non-terminal, curbside operation. The company started with management and driver's recruited from the ranks of both companies, but are a separate operation from their parents. The buses are painted in the Bolt colors, and are dedicated to that operation, even though they say Greyhound Lines in the small, legal letters. The driver's are not interchangeable and only work on Bolt services. The New York based buses and driver's are worked out of Peter Pan's garage at Secaucus, NJ. As for the Pacific Northwest, I have only knowledge of what I read here on this forum.

One interesting addition to Bolt is services on Long Island....the buses are painted in the Bolt scheme, but are owned and operated by a Long Island based

carrier...sort of like a 'franchise'.......

Edit: Uh, oh.....I see that they gave up on that last idea....the Bolt website now says that the Long Island operation is run by a '7-Bus', and is not affiliated with Bolt........


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## Trogdor

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Whatever, those college students may be knowledgable in their own profession, but they're sure fools with transport! Missing the Operator tag.....


You should go educate them.

While you're at it, inform them of how lucky they are to not be riding on a Van Hool.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Trogdor said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, those college students may be knowledgable in their own profession, but they're sure fools with transport! Missing the Operator tag.....
> 
> 
> 
> You should go educate them.
> 
> While you're at it, inform them of how lucky they are to not be riding on a Van Hool.
Click to expand...

Oh, don't you worry! I educate them every time I can. Why pay the same fare for BoltBus when you can ride Amtrak? I try to tell all the tricks I can with intercity buses, where to sit on what bus and such.

Maybe I should start a blog about Greyhound buses. I'll do it when I have the time.


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## Jason McHuff

Albany is a really interesting choice in that Greyhound quit stopping there a while back (even though they do still go through the city on the way to/from Corvallis). The only plus I can think of is being closer to I-5 than Corvallis, but Salem is even closer and has a university and is a much bigger city.

Salem would be nice since the cheap transit connection between Portland and Salem runs only during weekday rush hours and takes a lot longer.


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## fairviewroad

Jason McHuff said:


> Albany is a really interesting choice in that Greyhound quit stopping there a while back (even though they do still go through the city on the way to/from Corvallis). The only plus I can think of is being closer to I-5 than Corvallis, but Salem is even closer and has a university and is a much bigger city.
> 
> Salem would be nice since the cheap transit connection between Portland and Salem runs only during weekday rush hours and takes a lot longer.


I agree with this. The "cheap transit connection" doesn't even run as far as Portland. It only gets you as far as Wilsonville. Getting all the

way to Portland is a three-seat ride.

I think the explanation for Albany is that they wouldn't be undercutting Greyhound business there. I expect that a non-stop Corvallis-Portland

route would do very well if timed to college student peak travel times.


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## Swadian Hardcore

If Greyhound and Bolt really do cater to different markets with largely the same operation, Greyhound shouldn't worry about Bolt undercutting Greyhound's business.

Something very impotant to know is that most of the Greyhound coaches running Portland-Eugene are actually through buses to Sacramento, much farther away. This is Greyhound Route 600. Thus, Bolt could become a SD accessory to Greyhound's LD through ops to SAC. The only Greyhound bus running Portland-Eugene indepedantly is the Friday special which is hardly a presence. The through pax to points south usually pack the 600 anyway, so Greyhound dosen't care if it cuts stop in Oregon that are just taking up seats for through pax.

I've spotted the 600 a lot in SAC, usually not much college students on this one either. Greyhound dosen't need college students from Oregon to fill up the 600. If fact, this route often get extra sections because of the huge loads. So they really need BoltBus to help relieve intra-Oregon demand without interfering with through passengers if they created additioned SD sections of 600.

See this: http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/schedules/pdf/600.pdf

In summary, I see this as an attempt by Greyhound to draw SD passengers away from the 600 through buses, freeing up seats for LD pax.

Edit: corrected timetable


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## Eric S

That link is to a New York-Atlantic City timetable.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Eric S said:


> That link is to a New York-Atlantic City timetable.


Hmm? I'll try to correct it ASAP.


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## Jason McHuff

fairviewroad said:


> I agree with this. The "cheap transit connection" doesn't even run as far as Portland. It only gets you as far as Wilsonville. Getting all the way to Portland is a three-seat ride.


True, but the connections are generally quick, and transfers should be expected since there's different modes and different agencies. It's not that bad if you want to save money, especially if you already have a TriMet fare.

BTW, regarding Amtrak, Bolt would be competing with Amtrak (both trains and thruway buses) in Albany, while if they went over to Corvallis, Greyhound could have the direct market to themselves.


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## Swadian Hardcore

Jason McHuff said:


> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. The "cheap transit connection" doesn't even run as far as Portland. It only gets you as far as Wilsonville. Getting all the way to Portland is a three-seat ride.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but the connections are generally quick, and transfers should be expected since there's different modes and different agencies. It's not that bad if you want to save money, especially if you already have a TriMet fare.
> 
> BTW, regarding Amtrak, Bolt would be competing with Amtrak (both trains and thruway buses) in Albany, while if they went over to Corvallis, Greyhound could have the direct market to themselves.
Click to expand...

Again, Greyhound dosen't need to have the direct market because: a. they don't carry much college students; b. they mostly have through buses that are already packed and they don't want SD pax from Albany because there would be more revuenue to just passengers on from SAC and other points south.


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## railiner

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Jason McHuff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. The "cheap transit connection" doesn't even run as far as Portland. It only gets you as far as Wilsonville. Getting all the way to Portland is a three-seat ride.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but the connections are generally quick, and transfers should be expected since there's different modes and different agencies. It's not that bad if you want to save money, especially if you already have a TriMet fare.
> 
> BTW, regarding Amtrak, Bolt would be competing with Amtrak (both trains and thruway buses) in Albany, while if they went over to Corvallis, Greyhound could have the direct market to themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, Greyhound dosen't need to have the direct market because: a. they don't carry much college students; b. they mostly have through buses that are already packed and they don't want SD pax from Albany because there would be more revuenue to just passengers on from SAC and other points south.
Click to expand...

I don't know how it is in the PNW, but here in the East, college students make up a huge proportion of Greyhound (and all intercity bus) ridership. The extra schedules on Friday and Sunday are designed to tap into this lucrative business, and many trips make stops at major campuses.

So I am surprised to read of your observations.... :huh:


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## Swadian Hardcore

railiner said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason McHuff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fairviewroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. The "cheap transit connection" doesn't even run as far as Portland. It only gets you as far as Wilsonville. Getting all the way to Portland is a three-seat ride.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but the connections are generally quick, and transfers should be expected since there's different modes and different agencies. It's not that bad if you want to save money, especially if you already have a TriMet fare.
> 
> BTW, regarding Amtrak, Bolt would be competing with Amtrak (both trains and thruway buses) in Albany, while if they went over to Corvallis, Greyhound could have the direct market to themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, Greyhound dosen't need to have the direct market because: a. they don't carry much college students; b. they mostly have through buses that are already packed and they don't want SD pax from Albany because there would be more revuenue to just passengers on from SAC and other points south.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know how it is in the PNW, but here in the East, college students make up a huge proportion of Greyhound (and all intercity bus) ridership. The extra schedules on Friday and Sunday are designed to tap into this lucrative business, and many trips make stops at major campuses.
> 
> So I am surprised to read of your observations.... :huh:
Click to expand...

Well, that's just what I saw, and I've ridden Greyhound 11 times this year in the West. AFAIK, Greyhound totally dosen't care about college students in the West, they've cancelled pretty much all the college towns they used to stop at with no chances are resurrection. They seem more interested in getting to the destination a bit (like 5 minutes) faster rather than picking up college students.

For example, Greyhound not only misses Albany, they also miss Davis, Berkeley, and the list goes on.

I mean, I once saw four buses boarding at the same time in Sacramento, including an overnight to Portland, and out of well over150 people, I saw very little college-age people. The most popular bus was actually the one to Portland, which require a last-minute extra section to be dispatched. There were still so little college-aged people and yound adults, I'd say they composed less than 10% and that's probably an overstatement.

Note that one bus was a Cruceros to Los Angeles, and that one was mostly taken by Hispanics.


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