# Indy Sen. Committee Bans Light Rail



## The Davy Crockett (Jan 30, 2014)

I first read this at Trains Newswire, and then found more information in this article in The Indianapolis Star.

From the 'Indy Star' article:



> A state Senate committee approved a bill Tuesday that would allow for an expanded mass transit system in Central Indiana, but not without protests from Democrats and some business groups.
> 
> The Senate Tax and Fiscal Policy Committee voted 8-4 in favor of Senate Bill 176 after about an hour of testimony and an amendment that, among other things, would prevent light rail from being part of the expansion.
> 
> ...


While looking for the 'no light rail' article in The Indianapolis Star I first came across this article on an alleged "demon house" in the 'steel town' of Gary.

Makes me wonder: Do some folks see the devil in things related to steel? :lol:

Edited to fix an egregious spelling error.


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## afigg (Jan 30, 2014)

Looks like it will be a very long time before Indianapolis makes the list of cities with good rail or fixed guideway transit systems.


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## MikefromCrete (Jan 30, 2014)

Typical Indiana anti-transit attitude.


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## Ryan (Jan 30, 2014)

Color me unsurprised. This is what happens when you elect people that put ideology before the good of the people you were elected to represent.


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## jimhudson (Jan 30, 2014)

Ditto! When Political Talking Points" become more Important than Policy and actually doing the job that Politicians are Elected for (to serve the Common Good!), this is what results! Let the Good People of Indianapolis sit in Gridlock Traffic or Walk, maybe theyll wake up and throw these Morons out Eventually? Naw, We Get the Government We Deserve! :help:


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## FriskyFL (Jan 30, 2014)

People get the government they deserve.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## Trogdor (Jan 30, 2014)

Tommy Thompson, former governor of Wisconsin and former Amtrak board member, advocated a similar restriction of Milwaukee (hence, no light rail there).


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## Nathanael (Jan 31, 2014)

Bleah. This reminds me of the anti-rail bills which passed the Ohio Legislature, and sabotaged Columbus (but didn't stop Cincy) and the "do not talk about the Dan Patch Line" bill which was forced through by NIMBYs from Edina and Bloomington in Minnesota.

You have to wonder whether there are a bunch of siderodromophobia cases going on in these legislatures.


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## NorthShore (Feb 4, 2014)

Even basic bus service is at atrociously lacking levels in Indianapolis, unfortunately. They just don't understand anything other than automobile at all.

Sent from my N9810 using Amtrak Forum mobile app


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## afigg (Feb 13, 2014)

Update on the transit legislation in Indiana. Indy Star: House panel approves amended transit legislation. The Indiana House Roads and Transportation Committee voted 11-1 in favor of the state Senate bill with some amendments adding a county to the counties covered in the bill and removing a tax requirement. Further down in the article, it says this:

"Most other aspects of the bill remain unchanged. It allows local governments to raise income taxes to fund an expansion and requires fares to cover 25 percent of the cost. Voters in each county would have to approve the expansion, and decisions about what type of transit system to build would be left to each county, *though light rail would be prohibited*." (boldface mine)

So the LRT ban is in the bill. Ok, so each county can decide what type of transit system they can build, but it can't be LRT. Well, that limits the options doesn't it? No streetcars, no light rail. Presumably no heavy rail rapid transit, either if a study were to find that was the best long term option. Also, each county gets to decide what to build? That could make for a poorly designed and connected pseudo BRT system.


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## Devil's Advocate (Feb 13, 2014)

If you don't want rail then vote for the Grand Oil Party.


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## Anderson (Feb 13, 2014)

I'd like to see one or two counties throw a light rail alternative into their study and then basically announce "Based on the alternatives analysis, we wish to do light rail but are being barred by this stupid bill."


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## afigg (Feb 13, 2014)

Anderson said:


> I'd like to see one or two counties throw a light rail alternative into their study and then basically announce "Based on the alternatives analysis, we wish to do light rail but are being barred by this stupid bill."


The ban is apparently on using any of the tax revenues provided for in the bill on light rail. Which effectively blocks light rail, but I don't know this would affect the required alternative analysis needed to obtain federal funding. Maybe the alternative studies can include monorail, maglev, and hyperloop. 

Streetsblog has a report which provides additional info on the bill: Indiana Transit Bill Moves Forward With Only Some of Its Worst Provisions.

My takeaway from these reports is that it will be a very long time before Indianapolis will be regarded as having a good transit system. The city will have to lose population and jobs in part due to a lousy or barely functional transit system first.


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## Nathanael (Feb 25, 2014)

afigg said:


> My takeaway from these reports is that it will be a very long time before Indianapolis will be regarded as having a good transit system. The city will have to lose population and jobs in part due to a lousy or barely functional transit system first.


This has already been happening to Indianapolis, but unfortunately it has been happening more slowly there than in most of the rust belt car-dominated cities -- which means the pressure to improve the public transportation is much less in Indianapolis.

Indianapolis is also outrageously unwalkable. The home of the Indy 500 really, really expects you to have a car. www.transitcolumbus.org/the-score-part-one/

=We'll probably see huge improvements in Columbus, Ohio first.


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## jerichowhiskey (Feb 27, 2014)

Indy Star



> Light rail complicates Central Indiana transit legislation
> Light rail could become part of an ­expanded Central Indiana mass transit system under changes the Indiana House made Thursday to legislation making its way through the General ­Assembly.
> 
> The change — one of several the House made — could put the measure at risk in the Senate, which failed to ­embrace light rail in the bill it passed earlier this month.
> ...


Well, at least the fight is still going strong at the moment.


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## afigg (Mar 4, 2014)

Saw this link on Streetsblog on a news update on the transit bill in the Indiana state legislature: House OKs mass transit bill for Central Indiana. The IN House version allows the local community the option of light rail.



> The Senate wants the business community to cover 10 percent of the expanded system’s operating costs through a new corporate income or employment tax, while the House wants to give counties the option of developing a light rail system in addition to bus service.
> 
> Despite those disagreements, Rep. Jerry Torr, the Carmel Republican who sponsored the bill in the House, said he believes the two chambers can reach a compromise.


That there is such a major fight in the state legislature over even allowing the LRT option to be included in studies and future planning says that if the feasibility and alternative option studies recommend LRT, it will face a serious uphill fight to be the selected design.


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## afigg (Mar 13, 2014)

It looks that it will be no light rail for Indianapolis. While transit may be making a comeback on a national level, irrational decisions like this by the state legislature shows that political opposition will keep some cities in the have-not category for good transit systems. Once a LRT exclusion is in the law, it could take decades to change it.

Indy Star: Progress made on mass transit compromise



> A bill that would clear the way for a mass transit system in Central Indiana is poised for a final vote after House and Senate negotiators agreed Wednesday to exclude light rail and remove a proposed business tax from the measure.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


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## Devil's Advocate (Mar 13, 2014)

afigg said:


> It looks that it will be no light rail for Indianapolis. While transit may be making a comeback on a national level, irrational decisions like this by the state legislature shows that political opposition will keep some cities in the have-not category for good transit systems. Once a LRT exclusion is in the law, it could take decades to change it.


You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.


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## CHamilton (Mar 26, 2014)

Clock ticking on mass transit bill as Gov. Mike Pence ponders decision


> Supporters of a measure that would clear the way for an expanded mass transit system in Central Indiana think they have done all they can to make the bill palatable to Gov. Mike Pence, but so far he has remained noncommittal.
> And the clock is ticking.
> 
> Pence has until Thursday to sign the bill, veto it or let it become law without his signature. He indicated Tuesday that a decision could come as early as [Tuesday]....
> ...


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## The Davy Crockett (Mar 26, 2014)

CHamilton said:


> Clock ticking on mass transit bill as Gov. Mike Pence ponders decision
> 
> 
> 
> > ...one of the bill’s sponsors, said the proposal offers plenty of safeguards.


Safeguards... for example, like keeping the Devil's work - i.e. parallel steel rails - out of the mix? hboy:


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## CHamilton (Mar 27, 2014)

Mass transit battle's next stop: ballot boxes




> The fight over whether to expand mass transit in Central Indiana could be coming to a ballot box near you.
> If voters approve, it will hit your wallet.
> 
> After three years of Statehouse lobbying by local government officials and other backers, Gov. Mike Pence signed a bill Wednesday allowing six counties to take steps to enlarge their mass transit systems.


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