# RF&P Timetables



## Anderson (Jul 3, 2014)

Does anyone have access to some pre-A Day RF&P timetables? I can find some in the form of post-1956 Official Guides (I own the December '56 Guide), but I'd rather not shell out a fortune tracking down a series of them. In particular, I'm wondering how long the New York Clipper lasted.

Edit: Also, are my eyes deceiving me, or was the New York Clipper an all-sleeper train?


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## third rail 1200 (Jul 4, 2014)

I don't see a New York Clipper listed for the RF&P in the 3/50. 11/52, 5/54. o r 6/55 Official Guides.


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## Anderson (Jul 4, 2014)

third rail 1200 said:


> I don't see a New York Clipper listed for the RF&P in the 3/50. 11/52, 5/54. o r 6/55 Official Guides.


Huh. I've got it in 12/56 as trains 23 and 24; might it be listed without a name in the other guides?

Edit: Also, when did the Havana Special lose its sleepers? If the Havana Special lost its sleepers in the mid-50s, the NY Clipper might have been an RF&P attempt to compensate for the loss of convenient sleeper service.


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## Bob Dylan (Jul 4, 2014)

Wasn't the New York Clipper one of Joe DiMaggios nicknames, perhaps so named from when Baseball Teams traveled by train????


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## third rail 1200 (Jul 4, 2014)

I looked in a 4/57 Official Guide and #23 & 24 are listed as the New York Clipper with a New York to Richmond sleeper daily and another Pullman daily except Sunday. Northbound, same two sleepers plus another that sets out in Washington from the 1:35 AM arrival of #24 until 4:50 AM for a more reasonable arrival in Philadelphia at 7:07 A and final arrival at NYP at 9:05. Also no checked baggage northbound.

In the 5/54 Guide #23 & 24 are shown but with no Car Service listing at all; however, table 25 in the PRR listing shows trains 101 (PRR)/ 23 (RF&P)/ 29 (ACL)/ 22 (NW) with one 10-6 NY to Norfolk, two 10-6s NY to Richmond and one 10-6 Philadelphia to Richmond. Also Dining car and coaches Washington to Richmond, NY to Washington and Richmond to Norfolk.

Northbound, same on #21-20-24-108, except no diner and no coach passengers Washington to NYC.


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## Anderson (Jul 4, 2014)

Wait, Richmond to _Norfolk_? Through cars make sense, but it's still a bit stunning to see on a certain level since there was such a hullabaloo about how the new Norfolk service was the first direct Norfolk-DC train.


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## third rail 1200 (Jul 4, 2014)

Anderson said:


> Wait, Richmond to _Norfolk_? Through cars make sense, but it's still a bit stunning to see on a certain level since there was such a hullabaloo about how the new Norfolk service was the first direct Norfolk-DC train.


Yep. Back before the technology was lost, through Pullmans were a great idea. Maybe someday it will be rediscovered.

Before it was dropped in about 1953, you even had a choice from Norfolk. Take the through Pullman route as outlined or take PRR direct by taking the PRR steamboat Elisha Lee from Norfolk to Cape Charles and then Pullmans and coaches in the evening or Parlor Car and coaches on the day trip. Dining room on the boat. Time about equal.


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## Anderson (Jul 4, 2014)

third rail 1200 said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, Richmond to _Norfolk_? Through cars make sense, but it's still a bit stunning to see on a certain level since there was such a hullabaloo about how the new Norfolk service was the first direct Norfolk-DC train.
> ...


Yeah, let's just say that I've actually asked in passing about running a version of that with an Ambus from NFK. The main problem today is that the track on the Eastern Shore is in lousy enough shape to make it not work. If Delaware and Maryland ever do their Ocean City train, that would be one thing, but failing that it isn't happening...because running a reasonably fast train up US-13 quickly would _crush_ the times for anything having to go via Richmond/Washington simply because you cut out about 160-180 miles of backtracking.


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## trainman74 (Jul 4, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> Wasn't the New York Clipper one of Joe DiMaggios nicknames, perhaps so named from when Baseball Teams traveled by train????


He was known as the Yankee Clipper. Nothing to do with trains, but two other forms of transportation: he was being compared at the time to Pan Am's aircraft, but the name hearkens back to the clipper ships of the 19th century.


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