# USA Rail strike?



## caravanman (Jun 21, 2022)

On a UK railfans website there is discussion about a potential USA rail strike of freight operations around 90 days from now.
Given that Amtrak runs over freight lines, outside of the NEC, is there potential for Amtrak disruption too? I am thinking signal workers, track maintenance, etc?


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## jiml (Jun 21, 2022)

Is the strike still on over there?


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## caravanman (Jun 21, 2022)

jiml said:


> Is the strike still on over there?


Yes, several days of disruption. It's not the drivers (engineers) who are on strike, but their higher pay levels are used by the media to say how selfish the highly paid rail workers are...


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## joelkfla (Jun 21, 2022)

Didn't someone just say there's a strike of signal workers in Canada, too?


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## jis (Jun 21, 2022)

caravanman said:


> On a UK railfans website there is discussion about a potential USA rail strike of freight operations around 90 days from now.
> Given that Amtrak runs over freight lines, outside of the NEC, is there potential for Amtrak disruption too? I am thinking signal workers, track maintenance, etc?


Which freight line are they talking about? Different freight railroads have different issues.

The only recent news I have heard regarding strikes is that the BNSF unions have been instructed by the courts that they cannot strike over the recent work rule changes. Admittedly I have not been following this topic too closely.

Meanwhile apparently NJT, a commuter line, workers indulged in a bit of allegedly illegal work action the other day.

The US District Court issued an injunction against the Union (BLE&T) that includes imprisonment of members who absent themselves from work without good reason.









Judge orders NJ Transit locomotive engineers return to work after 481 no-shows


Locomotive engineers who miss work without a legitimate reason could face fines or jail.



www.northjersey.com


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## Dutchrailnut (Jun 21, 2022)

it is almost impossible to have rail strike in USA, read railway labor act and see hom many conditions have to be met and how many waiting periods . violating that law would bankrupt its unions and its employees mostly setting penalties like 4 days pay for every day on strike, and loss of benefits for strike days


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## caravanman (Jun 21, 2022)

NMB Starts Clock Toward Rail Shutdown:

NMB Starts Clock Toward Rail Shutdown - Railway Age


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## Dutchrailnut (Jun 22, 2022)

sure and before that 90 days is over they create a presidential emergency board , and after that runs it cource a second PEB , long way off for a strike.


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## caravanman (Jun 22, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> sure and before that 90 days is over they create a presidential emergency board , and after that runs it cource a second PEB , long way off for a strike.


I have no idea how this stuff works in America, hence my concern to read of a rail strike in 90 days...


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## jiml (Jun 22, 2022)

While I agree this is unlikely to happen and a full shutdown would be extremely brief, it is interesting that if it did Canadian Pacific might be the only "US" Class 1 still operating. How that would even work would be fascinating to watch.


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## west point (Jun 22, 2022)

IMO it will be at least Jan 2023 befoe a strike can even happen. It may be years beforethis will be settled due to the engineer only calss 1s push.


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## Dutchrailnut (Jun 22, 2022)

What was the purpose of the Railway Labor Act?


General Purposes.

The purposes of the RLA are *to avoid any interruption of interstate commerce by providing for the prompt disposition of disputes between carriers and their employees and protects the right of employees to organize and bargain collectively*.

How does the Railway Labor Act affect unions ability to strike?


The RLA also *provides mandatory dispute resolution procedures that preclude strikes over union representation and grievance disputes*, and postpones the ability of either party to take action in bargaining disputes until it has completed the process outlined in the Act.

When was the last railroad strike?


*There has not been a national railroad strike since 1991*. Historically, Congress steps in within hours with legislation ending a national railroad work stoppage, imposing a third-party settlement most often mirroring PEB recommendations.


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## JontyMort (Jun 23, 2022)

jiml said:


> Is the strike still on over there?


Yes, it is. It was Tuesday, Thursday (today), and Saturday. Obvious that caused - and was designed to cause - seven days’ chaos for the price of three. They have to give a certain period of notice - not sure when the next one is. This will run for a while IMO.


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## jis (Jun 26, 2022)

Strike authorization vote is taking place, though it does not necessarily mean there will be a strike...









Ballots for strike authorization being mailed June 24 to BLET members at Class I railroads | Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen


This week, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen (BLET) is mailing ballots to more than 23,000 members seeking authorization for the Union’s leadership to call a strike should one become necessary to settle the current national contract dispute with the nation’s largest rail carri ...




ble-t.org


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## west point (Jun 26, 2022)

The RLA and all its subtlies will not allow any strike bfore 2023. Then congress will act after 1 or 2 days of a strike.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jun 27, 2022)

west point said:


> The RLA and all its subtlies will not allow any strike bfore 2023. Then congress will act after 1 or 2 days of a strike.


I wish they had something like this in the UK, where the RMT can randomly call a strike with only a few days notice, meaning people like myself with travel plans and little flexibility in dates are basically screwed.


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## Dutchrailnut (Jun 27, 2022)

strikes are not meant to be convenient to company and passengers or they have no effect .
the RLA has enabled companies to hold unions hostage with losses at end after members basically vote yes to whatever is offered.
it makes negotiating a joke.


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Jun 28, 2022)

Dutchrailnut said:


> strikes are not meant to be convenient to company and passengers or they have no effect .
> the RLA has enabled companies to hold unions hostage with losses at end after members basically vote yes to whatever is offered.
> it makes negotiating a joke.


With a private company a strike is primarily workers vs. management and management suffers most of the consequences i.e. financial losses due to lack of business. Customers generally have alternatives - if Coke goes on strike they can buy Pepsi.

For a public service such as transit the strike is basically workers vs the public, needing maximum inconvenience to put pressure on government to cave. Government just passes on any increased costs to the taxpayer so they don't have the same incentive as a private company management does. In a place such as the UK transit is a key part of the transport system and loss of it has a big impact unlike the US where it is less of a factor with a few exceptions such as NYC


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## Dutchrailnut (Jul 15, 2022)

President Biden Signs Executive Order Creating a Presidential Emergency Board | The White House


Today, President Biden signed an Executive Order establishing a Presidential Emergency Board, effective July 18, 2022, to help resolve an ongoing dispute




www.whitehouse.gov


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 30, 2022)

The AP has an article (dated yesterday, so the most recent I’ve seen) saying that 3 of the 12 unions have reached a tentative deal. Not the big two — engineers and conductors— but at least it’s a start.

I am not good at linking, but if you want to read more, search for “3 of 12 Rail Unions Announce Tentative Deal” and it should come up.

Or just google “freight railroad strike 2022” and it should appear as the first article.


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## trainman74 (Aug 30, 2022)

This link should work: 3 of 12 rail unions announce tentative deal with 24% raises


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 30, 2022)

trainman74 said:


> This link should work: 3 of 12 rail unions announce tentative deal with 24% raises



Yes, that’s it. Thank you.


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 30, 2022)

Not an expert on labor negotiations and certainly want a comprehensive resolution but I am sure nobody wants Congress to induce terms for an agreement. The raises for the two unions seem pretty hefty to me but as much as anything probably reflects the railroads' realities of hiring new employees in this tough environment so they may have felt compelled to be "generous." Be prepared for higher rates and more excuses by shippers to raise the prices of their products.


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## MARC Rider (Aug 30, 2022)

PaTrainFan said:


> Not an expert on labor negotiations and certainly want a comprehensive resolution but I am sure nobody wants Congress to induce terms for an agreement. The raises for the two unions seem pretty hefty to me but as much as anything probably reflects the railroads' realities of hiring new employees in this tough environment so they may have felt compelled to be "generous." Be prepared for higher rates and more excuses by shippers to raise the prices of their products.


The raises may **seem** generous because they're making up for previous years of insufficient cost of living increases. (Of course, I have no knowledge of actual railroad wage rates, but it seems reasonable based on my own experience of seeing my salary in inflation-adjusted dollars decrease, despite annual pay raises.) And this past year had some pretty stiff inflation not seen since the 1970s.

As for the shippers charging more, well, they don't need any excuses to do what comes naturally to them.


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 30, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> The raises may **seem** generous because they're making up for previous years of insufficient cost of living increases. (Of course, I have no knowledge of actual railroad wage rates, but it seems reasonable based on my own experience of seeing my salary in inflation-adjusted dollars decrease, despite annual pay raises.) And this past year had some pretty stiff inflation not seen since the 1970s.
> 
> As for the shippers charging more, well, they don't need any excuses to do what comes naturally to them.


 I'm predicting to get dinged for this context, but I'll give it a whirl: Pennsylvania legislators are slated to get a 9.7 percent cost of living raise. That's for one year, and they didn't have to negotiate it. Not bad.


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## pennyk (Aug 31, 2022)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please limit your discussion to the topic of US Rail Strike. Off topic and/or political comments were removed. Thank you for your cooperation.


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## Joe from PA (Aug 31, 2022)

My wife and daughter were in London when the rail strike started. They were lucky to get to the airport for their flight home, since many non-rail workers (like taxi and bus drivers) get to work by rail.


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## Mystic River Dragon (Aug 31, 2022)

Joe from PA said:


> My wife and daughter were in London when the rail strike started. They were lucky to get to the airport for their flight home, since many non-rail workers (like taxi and bus drivers) get to work by rail.



That’s an excellent point. If we have a national rail strike here, I imagine it will affect commuter rail, and I can’t see commuter rail putting up with being shut down for for long. I imagine they would complain long and loudly til things were resolved.


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## jpakala (Aug 31, 2022)

In the days of "featherbedding" rail employees such as engineers made a killing, both owing to high wages and long-outmoded work rules such as a crew change between NYC and Albany and of course plenty more before reaching Chicago. In the 1970s I remember a passenger train conductor whose pay enabled ownership of a home in a NJ neighborhood most people couldn't dream of affording. Firemen of course got paid for years after most of their tasks no longer existed. Today it is different, but the problem seems to be not ample pay, but awful schedules at least for some railroads. Another fact is the major difference between employees of the big companies and those at the countless small operations. BTW, years back I heard Thomas Mann of the Library of Congress speak about the false narrative that rail's decline resulted from the RRs failing to realize they were in the transportation business (once other modes began emerging). He pointed instead to historical and other factors such as real estate taxes (I remember once seeing the huge tax PRR paid on their Newark, NJ station alone) while competition not only paid no taxes on their rights of way or ports including airports, but also had tax money build and maintain all that for them.


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## Acela150 (Sep 2, 2022)

Mystic River Dragon said:


> The AP has an article (dated yesterday, so the most recent I’ve seen) saying that 3 of the 12 unions have reached a tentative deal. Not the big two — engineers and conductors— but at least it’s a start.



Keep in mind that it still needs to be voted on. And my gut feeling is that the membership will vote "NO" on this one. Some have a theory that the "NO's" will be the majority of the vote, but yet the contract will be ratified somehow. And without going into details, sadly I can see this happening. 

I will add that a lot of RR employees are furious at the PEB proposal. PEB's historically have been extremely close to 50/50. But I read the entire proposal and it sadly favors the carriers by a long shot. Even after the carriers were quoted as saying "Labor does not contribute to profits".... But neither do overpaid CEO's who make millions of dollars off of the hardworking front line workers.


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## Devil's Advocate (Sep 2, 2022)

Acela150 said:


> Even after the carriers were quoted as saying "Labor does not contribute to profits".... But neither do overpaid CEO's who make millions of dollars off of the hardworking front line workers.


Sometimes I think a maximum benefit limit is just as important as a minimum wage. Few (if any) are worth what we pay C-Suite folks these days.


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 2, 2022)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Sometimes I think a maximum benefit limit is just as important as a minimum wage. Few (if any) are worth what we pay C-Suite folks these days.


In all honesty, as a Lifetime Member of 2 Unions, this is true of some Union Officials also!


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## VAtrainfan (Nov 15, 2022)

A strike still isn't off the table. Yesterday a third union voted to reject the deal.

Third U.S. union rejects national rail contract deal



> The International Brotherhood of Boilermakers (IBB), which represents about 300 rail employees, rejected the agreement, said the union and the National Carriers’ Conference Committee (NCCC), which represents the nation’s freight railroads.
> 
> Last week, the NCCC and another union that voted down the contract -- the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (BMWED) that represents 11,000 workers -- agreed to extend a potential strike deadline until at least Dec. 4.


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