# Sleeper Car Amenties



## jmbgeg (Nov 27, 2008)

My experience with Amtrak is based upon 3 years of up to 5-10 trips per year on long distance trains like the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight, so I am not a newbie but many members of this board have much more substantial train travel experience. Comparatively, I have logged several hundred thousand miles in air travel over the years, much of that on Alaska Air. In many of the destinations that I travel to, a sleeper is 2-3 times more expensive than a first class plane ticket. Some of the comparisons between sleeper travel and first class air travel puzzle me. I fully understand that Amtrak is subsidized by government and cost constrained in operating decisions.

I have never been a coffee drinker so the coffee set-up in the sleepers has no appeal to me. I know that to many others it is essential. I drink ice tea but it is probably impractical to continuously have that set out in sleeper cars. Attendents have retrieved ice tea for me from time to time, but that is a rarity, so I lug my own on board. Of course many sleepers have orange and apple juice set out.

Traveling first class on planes you get a choice of sodas free, and typically beer, wine or cocktails. I know that other than a small bottle of champagne sometimes offered, having comp alcohol for sleepers is a practical and financial non-starter and I am not here to advocate that. I have been surprised that Amtrak does not offer reasonable access to comp soft drinks in sleepers. From a cost standpoint it is not feasible to start that practice at present, but I think there is a pent up demand for that amenity.

On a related pet peeve, it is when Atrak fails to keep sleeper ice bins and ice chests stocked. I understand that the supply runs out on long strips, but I have observed that even on extended service stops when you assume the train is restocked with ice from the station, the attendents do not always restock the sleepers.

I am probably being a whiner in this post, at least on the sodas. Granted, sleeper passengers can navigate through the train to the lounge car and purchase pop (or ice tea). The empty ice bins is something that is reasonably fixable though through observing consistent quality service standards.


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## slashdot (Nov 27, 2008)

there's really no comparison

http://i33.tinypic.com/zmxg6x.jpg


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 27, 2008)

slashdot said:


> there's really no comparison
> http://i33.tinypic.com/zmxg6x.jpg


Thats first class on an uber-plane... compare that to first class on any regular flight and then we'll talk.


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## jphjaxfl (Nov 27, 2008)

I also travel by air a lot for business because of scheduling taking a train isn't practical. I get upgraded to first class alot. Airline first class on domestic flights is not what it once was. First class on international flights is still very nice with excellant food and attentiveness, but it is also a lot more expensive than business class or coach. There was a time when traveling by Sleeping Car on a train was also a first class experience. It was mostly when Sleeping Cars were operated by Pullman Company, but some railroads like the Santa Fe and Seaboard Coastline continued great service until Amtrak took over. In comparing Sleeping Cars on Amtrak to First Class on domestic flights, I would say that flight attendants are much more attentive than most Amtrak Sleeping Car attendants. Amtrak food is slightly better than airline first class. Prior to SDS, Amtrak food was much better. The cost for Amtrak's Sleeping Car rooms are significantly higher than airline First Class and for what one pays for a Sleeping room on Amtrak, I would expect better service. But I also understand that Amtrak is heavily subsidized and to keep the Sleeping Cars running, there is a price to pay. If Amtrak gave more free beverages, the price would likely go up. I would rather pay for my beverages. I don't think the type of service that was available in the Pullman era will ever return because American's don't really want it. Another comparison might be why Walmart is successful while many of the Department Stores well known for their quality and service have become history.


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## AlanB (Nov 27, 2008)

Up until about 2, maybe 3, years ago Amtrak did provide free soft drinks in the sleeping cars. They also used to provide cookies, apples, and other small snacks in the sleeping cars. All were eliminated in part due to cost cutting, in part due to passengers stocking up on things, and in part to theft by employees.

In fact the chocolate chip cookies that used to be provided on the eastern routes were some of the best cookies I've ever had, and I'm not a huge fan of chocolate. Burried in this forum are several topics talking about those chocolate chip cookies, they were a hot topic back then.


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## ralfp (Nov 27, 2008)

jmbgeg said:


> In many of the destinations that I travel to, a sleeper is 2-3 times more expensive than a first class plane ticket. Some of the comparisons between sleeper travel and first class air travel puzzle me.


Whatchya talkin about? Are you traveling alone? Then a bedroom is sometimes more expensive. Picking a random week in Jan. (18-25) for CHI-SEA round-trip, first class airfare is $1219, a roomette is $924 for 1 person. A bedroom is about the same per person.

Of course if you're elite, F is the same as coach if you're lucky enough to get upgraded. My success rate this year is 3/13 on Continental (okay, I'm silver, and CO is probably the worst airline WRT to domestic upgrade rates).


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## jmbgeg (Nov 27, 2008)

AlanB said:


> Up until about 2, maybe 3, years ago Amtrak did provide free soft drinks in the sleeping cars. They also used to provide cookies, apples, and other small snacks in the sleeping cars. All were eliminated in part due to cost cutting, in part due to passengers stocking up on things, and in part to theft by employees.
> In fact the chocolate chip cookies that used to be provided on the eastern routes were some of the best cookies I've ever had, and I'm not a huge fan of chocolate. Burried in this forum are several topics talking about those chocolate chip cookies, they were a hot topic back then.


You caught me in an oversight. I have experienced cookies set out near the coffee station on both the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight on recent trips.

In terms of cost savings on long distance trains, when I am paying $1,050 each way Spokane to Chicago for a sleeper, I would not mind paying another $5, $10 or $20 to have soft drinks as an amenity to sometimes repeat journeys thoughout the length of the train from the sleeper to reach the lounge car. They could arguably recover they inventory and labor costs for the products. For those who might object on the basis that they never drink soft drinks, I do not object to paying for coffee service that I never use.

I don't know that making it an optional charge to sleeper passengers (instead of building it into all sleeper fares) would fly, but an example of where they did that is the wine tastings on the Coast Starlight. On the last trip I observed that they now charge $5 per passenger partaking in the wine and cheese events. I have no objection to the policy. Obviously in that case $5 does not recover 100% of incremental costs.

I think that I have beat this subject to death.  Thanks for your replies.


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## had8ley (Nov 27, 2008)

I had suggested that each sleeper pax be given a voucher for a free drink in the lounge car. It's amazing how many people do not know that there even is a lounge car on some trains. I've noticed this multiple times on the Crescent; pax go eat in the diner and come back to their room. Give them a free drink voucher thus freeing up the sleeping car attendant for having to account for all the drinks. The extras that the pax might buy in the lounge car could possibly make up for the lost revenue of one soft drink. It sounds like a win-win scenario. As usual, nobody at Amtrak thought it was a good idea :angry:


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## AlanB (Nov 27, 2008)

Now that is an interesting idea Jay!


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## the_traveler (Nov 27, 2008)

jmbgeg said:


> In terms of cost savings on long distance trains, when I am paying $1,050 each way Spokane to Chicago for a sleeper, I would not mind paying another $5, $10 or $20 to have soft drinks as an amenity to sometimes repeat journeys thoughout the length of the train from the sleeper to reach the lounge car.


I *would* mind paying $5, $10 or $20 to have soft drinks! I don't drink soft drinks at all! There's nothing that says you can't walk a few cars to get your own soda.

I do like Jay's idea of a voucher for drinks. When I rode BC BOS-WAS (on a Regional) in October, I could get a coffee or soft drink from the cafe car by showing my ticket, but I had to walk "all the way" there myself - I think 3 cars!  I also bought some other things there. If I didn't have that offer, I would not even have gone there.


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## Long Train Runnin' (Nov 27, 2008)

had8ley said:


> I had suggested that each sleeper pax be given a voucher for a free drink in the lounge car. It's amazing how many people do not know that there even is a lounge car on some trains. I've noticed this multiple times on the Crescent; pax go eat in the diner and come back to their room. Give them a free drink voucher thus freeing up the sleeping car attendant for having to account for all the drinks. The extras that the pax might buy in the lounge car could possibly make up for the lost revenue of one soft drink. It sounds like a win-win scenario. As usual, nobody at Amtrak thought it was a good idea :angry:


It actually does sound good this summer while me and my dad were on the CZ he had just thought there were nothing but bathrooms on the lower level of the SSL until i while he was still in the room I went to the lounge and bought some soda and a cinnamon roll. He was wondering where I had gotten it from his first reaction was that I bummed it off the LSA in the diner. So I mean when I asked him where he thought the snack car was he responded idk I didn't see any amfleets in the consist :lol: :lol: so yeah I think advertising for the cafe would be a good idea.


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## slashdot (Nov 27, 2008)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> slashdot said:
> 
> 
> > there's really no comparison
> ...


Exactly. First class on an uber-train... there's really no comparison. Private company vs Government subsidized. I'll have a cookie. Bail out Amtrak, Thank you.


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## Chatter163 (Nov 27, 2008)

I have yet to see a sleeper, even a bedroom, that cost two to three times a first class airline ticket.


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## GG-1 (Nov 27, 2008)

Chatter163 said:


> I have yet to see a sleeper, even a bedroom, that cost two to three times a first class airline ticket.


Especially if you count the hour of service provided.

Aloha


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## wayman (Nov 27, 2008)

had8ley said:


> It's amazing how many people do not know that there even is a lounge car on some trains. I've noticed this multiple times on the Crescent; pax go eat in the diner and come back to their room.


Amtrak seems to do a very poor job of advertising on-board services to passengers. Recently I was describing dining on Amtrak to a friend (who had ridden the Coast Starlight SF to Seattle and back a year or two ago). He didn't understand how I could be so enthusiastic over "microwaved hot dogs". It turns out he had no idea there were any other food options on the train! I sent him photos of dining cars and meals, and he was very sad he'd missed out on the experience. Often my seatmates in coach have had no idea there was anything ahead of the cafe/lounge car. They hear "walk forward for food", see that, and assume "well, this is the food car" without ever pausing to wonder if there might be a second one.

And I was talking to another friend recently about the benefits of upgrading to a sleeping car, and when I mentioned the free meals he said "what???". Apparently, he'd taken several roomette trips on business a few years ago and paid for all his meals in the diner because he had no idea he was entitled to them! (I'm not sure why the LSA or server didn't ask him whether he was in a coach or a sleeper when he showed up for meals; that part seems odd.)


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## the_traveler (Nov 27, 2008)

wayman said:


> And I was talking to another friend recently about the benefits of upgrading to a sleeping car, and when I mentioned the free meals he said "what???". Apparently, he'd taken several roomette trips on business *a few years ago* and paid for all his meals in the diner because he had no idea he was entitled to them! (I'm not sure why the LSA or server didn't ask him whether he was in a coach or a sleeper when he showed up for meals; that part seems odd.)


How many "few years ago" did these trips take place? I seem to recall that there was a time that sleepers did not include free meals!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 27, 2008)

slashdot said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > slashdot said:
> ...


Excuse me?



> Amtrak seems to do a very poor job of advertising on-board services to passengers.


Hell, when I was in CHI getting on the EB back in Sept. half the sleeping pax were in the tiny boarding area with all the coach pax...

The conductor had to get on the horn and said something to the effect of "You sleeping class passengers, you can go the lounge if you want. That is what you paid all that extra money on your tickets for... Thank you."

All the coach class pax burst out in laughter.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2008)

I remember about 18-20 years ago, I waited last minute (as usual) to make reservations for Easter weekend to go from NYP to FBG. The only seats available were the first class bedroom. So for about $60 some odd dollars extra for two adults and two children, we splurged.

We had breakfast, I remember it to be a buffet like setting with made to order eggs. The server took our trays and led us to our seats. I remember my little one had croissants for the first time and loved it. I must admit, they were the best I had ever had. Crispy. and flaky. YUM... The rest of the meal was so good also.

Well, just before we were getting off the train, the attendant handed each of us a basket with cheese and crackers, an apple, a bag of nuts, ?cookies?, and a small bottle of wine. There was also a pad with Amtrak and a train on the top of each sheet, and a brown pen in the basket. The boys got the same, except for the wine. I was so impressed. :lol:

Fast foward to 2000 when I took my second first class roomette seat from NYP to HOL. No basket, :unsure: but we did have juice, cookies, soda, coffee and plenty of ice. Great steak for dinner. Fork tender. 

Last Dec. in a first class bedroom, all we got was a mini bottle of water. And an OK dinner. :huh: Since we have been traveling first class NYP to HOL just about every year since 2000, we learned to take our own snacks.  And still have a great time.


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## jmbgeg (Nov 27, 2008)

Chatter163 said:


> I have yet to see a sleeper, even a bedroom, that cost two to three times a first class airline ticket.



Here is an example to assist you in seeing my hypothetical. For the period in December in which I booked a Spokane to Chicago round trip fare, I paid $135 rail fare (AAA rate) plus $890 for a deluxe bedroom for a total of $1,020 each way. I picked the travel dates to navigate around days when the bedroom was offered at $1,172 plus the $135 fare for a total of $1,307 each way. I just went up to the Alaska Air website for Spokane to Chicago first class airfares and they were $599 each way. $1,172 is 1.96 times the first class airfare; $1,307 is 2.18 times. The quoted deluxe bedroom one way fare Spokane to Seattle has definitely hit 3 times the current one way first class airfare of $175 at peak train travel times during the summer. You've gotta like train travel to choose the train in those scenarios, which I do.


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## TVRM610 (Nov 27, 2008)

I remember when not only did you get free soft drinks... but they also gave you a free coffee mug with the name of the train you were riding on! I still have my Capitol Limited and Texas Eagle Mugs! I also remember Ghiradelli (yes Ghiradelli!) chocolates on the pillows each night... really first class stuff. Ahh... budget cuts!

At least we still have Amtrak though...


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 27, 2008)

Our trip earlier this month on either 30 CL or 49 LSL we discovered a mint on our pillows after the bed turn down. Nice touch.


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## spacecadet (Nov 28, 2008)

First class is the last place Amtrak should be making budget cuts. I would bet that if you go back and look at historical fares, sleeping car fares now are probably lower now than they ever have been when adjusted for inflation. I remember around 1980 my parents complaining about paying something like $1,300 for me to travel CHI-SFO alone in a roomette - today, the cost is often not much different even with close to 30 years worth of inflation.

So Amtrak has had to in effect lower fares on the very passengers that *should* be their bread and butter - it's the first and business class passengers that pay the bills on most large airlines. Amtrak never had a problem filling sleeping cars even at the higher historical fares and with old, worn out equipment (that I loved, but not many others seemed to by then). So why not keep both the service levels and the fares higher? It's called "first class" for a reason. (Actually, I've noticed Amtrak no longer calls it that anymore - they call it "sleeper class". So even they seem to know that this is no longer really first class service.)

Amtrak is slowly turning into a no-frills railroad. I don't see how that's a winning business model. It's certainly not working out all that well for the airlines, with a couple of special exceptions like Southwest that have other factors involved (good fuel hedging, etc.). It's especially not working for them on routes where they're competing with higher-level carriers (ie. international routes), where some US airlines (like UA) have had to actually reinstate previously cut services to keep up. That's even further evidence that people will pay more to get more when you're talking about the high end.

The one thing I think Amtrak is lacking right now to really make *any* first class strategy work is an in-between level of service, like a second class or business class in their LD trains. The slumbercoaches used to fill that role, and nobody has ever denied their popularity. These were often the first cars to sell out on any train they ran on. There does need to be an option for those who don't really want to ride coach and who could afford a small premium for better accommodations, but who can't afford full first class. (I don't think the roomette really cuts it, especially for one person.)


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 28, 2008)

> (I don't think the roomette really cuts it, especially for one person.)


But for two it does...


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## the Other Mike (Nov 28, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> First class is the last place Amtrak should be making budget cuts. I would bet that if you go back and look at historical fares, sleeping car fares now are probably lower now than they ever have been when adjusted for inflation. I remember around 1980 my parents complaining about paying something like $1,300 for me to travel CHI-SFO alone in a roomette - today, the cost is often not much different even with close to 30 years worth of inflation.



Interesting, I can book the CONO to CHI and the EB round trip for 1300 and a have a delightful time, of course I tip my Attendants $20 a night I get the run of the place including as much juice and ice as I want.................................( including some extras in my room )

I just don't understand what you people expect ?


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## had8ley (Nov 28, 2008)

the_traveler said:


> wayman said:
> 
> 
> > And I was talking to another friend recently about the benefits of upgrading to a sleeping car, and when I mentioned the free meals he said "what???". Apparently, he'd taken several roomette trips on business *a few years ago* and paid for all his meals in the diner because he had no idea he was entitled to them! (I'm not sure why the LSA or server didn't ask him whether he was in a coach or a sleeper when he showed up for meals; that part seems odd.)
> ...


I know someone on here knows the exact date but I would say the late '80's or early 90's saw the free meal with sleeper tickets. It was not a novel idea; I believe the C&O and B&O tried it before the birth of Amtrak.


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## the Other Mike (Nov 28, 2008)

the Other Mike said:


> spacecadet said:
> 
> 
> > First class is the last place Amtrak should be making budget cuts. I would bet that if you go back and look at historical fares, sleeping car fares now are probably lower now than they ever have been when adjusted for inflation. I remember around 1980 my parents complaining about paying something like $1,300 for me to travel CHI-SFO alone in a roomette - today, the cost is often not much different even with close to 30 years worth of inflation.
> ...


Wow, thats sounds much worse today than when I wrote it last night. :unsure:

I should say:

Exactly what is it that you feel you are missing ? ( or what is it that "I" should be expecting that I'm overlooking )


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm pretty sure Amtrak started to include meals coinciding with, or very shortly after, introduction of the Superliners. Roomettes and Bedrooms on heritage equipment got them too, but Slumbercoach never did.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 29, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I'm pretty sure Amtrak started to include meals coinciding with, or very shortly after, introduction of the Superliners. Roomettes and Bedrooms on heritage equipment got them too, but Slumbercoach never did.


That is correct, slumbercoach did not get it. I think it was the early 90's. Can't seem to find anything about it tonight. I will look more tomorrow.

I recall that the sleeping car rates went up significantly when the change was made. I also remember a couple of years ago this came up on the forum and I looked all over the place but could never find documented proof that the rates went up when the meals became,uh, "free". But I am sure they did.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 29, 2008)

I just remember seeing a 1982ish schedule explaining free meals for sleeper passengers and the dis-inclusion of the the "First class service package" for Slumbercoach passengers.


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## TVRM610 (Nov 29, 2008)

spacecadet said:


> The one thing I think Amtrak is lacking right now to really make *any* first class strategy work is an in-between level of service, like a second class or business class in their LD trains. The slumbercoaches used to fill that role, and nobody has ever denied their popularity. These were often the first cars to sell out on any train they ran on. There does need to be an option for those who don't really want to ride coach and who could afford a small premium for better accommodations, but who can't afford full first class. (I don't think the roomette really cuts it, especially for one person.)


I agree... I feel like if we can't have slumbercoaches back (  haha) a great seemingly low cost alternative is to have a first class coach where meals are included, coffee and juice, newspaper, and a private attendant with reserved seat #'s and 2-1 seating. Basically I just described what I would love to be able to get when I can't afford the outrageous sleeper rates.

It's so hit and miss though, my most recent coach trips on the Capitol and Lake Shore were just great with absolutely no need to pay for such a thing!


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I just remember seeing a 1982ish schedule explaining free meals for sleeper passengers and the dis-inclusion of the the "First class service package" for Slumbercoach passengers.



Yeah, guess I was wrong---I fact, I lay in bed thinking about it and then got back out of bed to think about it more and say so! If I later (not tonight!!) find anything more specific than the 1982 you recall I will report it.

That's it for now


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## Ispolkom (Nov 30, 2008)

Green Maned Lion said:


> I just remember seeing a 1982ish schedule explaining free meals for sleeper passengers and the dis-inclusion of the the "First class service package" for Slumbercoach passengers.


That's what I remember from my Slumbercoach trips on the Crescent in the early-mid 90s. Missing breakfast wasn't much of a problem on the Washington-Atlanta run, as we could always swing by Krispie Kreme (back when they were a southern chain), on the way from the train station.


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