# Air Canada B767....The Gimli Glider



## NS VIA Fan (Jul 23, 2013)

30 years ago today an Air Canada B767 glided powerless into the abandoned airport at Gimli, Manitoba and everyone survived. Here’s the story of the Gimli Glider.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2397825667/


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## railiner (Jul 23, 2013)

A great story....thanks for the link...


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## chakk (Jul 23, 2013)

I think at the time of the landing, the abandoned airport had been converted into a drag racing strip.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 24, 2013)

I think this plane (C-GAUN) is still stored at Mojave. Someone should buy the old plane and restore it or preserve it in a museum. In the old red-stripe colours of course! Don't want it to get broken up.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 24, 2013)

chakk said:


> I think at the time of the landing, the abandoned airport had been converted into a drag racing strip.


Yes, watch the film clip in the link above......interviews with those on the strip when C-GAUN glided in!


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## xyzzy (Jul 24, 2013)

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/original-gimli-glider-can-be-yours-for-a-few-million-192442941.html?device=mobile

Don't know the outcome.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 24, 2013)

xyzzy said:


> http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/original-gimli-glider-can-be-yours-for-a-few-million-192442941.html?device=mobile
> Don't know the outcome.


Who owns the plane right now? Did Air Canada fully-own the plane or did they use a complicated long-term leasing plan?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 25, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I think this plane (C-GAUN) is still stored at Mojave. Someone should buy the old plane and restore it or preserve it in a museum. In the old red-stripe colours of course! Don't want it to get broken up.


Perhaps preserved in honour of the Pilots skill…….but probably one that Air Canada and the Government wish would just go away.

It was a major screw-up on the part of Air Canada that the flight took-off with insufficient fuel as a result of confusion in switching over to the metric system.

And at the time it was ammunition against the Government for what many considered the forced metrification of the country.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 25, 2013)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > I think this plane (C-GAUN) is still stored at Mojave. Someone should buy the old plane and restore it or preserve it in a museum. In the old red-stripe colours of course! Don't want it to get broken up.
> ...


If AC and the Canadian government try to get rid of the plane, that's just cheeky manuevers against the reputation of the pilots. 30 years ago I was still small and I don't know much about the metrification of Canada. I actually don't know if Canadian buses and trains use km/h or mph for the speedometer. Do any old US-built locomotives in Canada retain the metric speedometer?


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## fairviewroad (Jul 26, 2013)

A very nice news report on the pilot returning to the "scene of the glide"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2013/07/23/mb-gimli-glider-pilot-revisits-air-strip-winnipeg.html


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 26, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> .................I don't know much about the metrification of Canada. I actually don't know if Canadian buses and trains use km/h or mph for the speedometer. Do any old US-built locomotives in Canada retain the metric speedometer?


Railways in Canada still operate in Miles so a locomotive Speedometer would read in MPH and a Milepost beside the track is a Milepost......not a KilometerPost!

Buses on the otherhand would have a Speedometer in Km/h with MPH also shown in the background (just like most cars here)

There’s been a whole generation grow up since metrification was implemented and those 25 to 30 years old were taught metric in school so to them it’s meters, kilometers and celsius but most are well aware of feet, miles and fahrenheit. I’m an Engineering Technologist and find metric just so much easier to work in......... and I grew up with feet & inches.


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## AmtrakBlue (Jul 26, 2013)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > .................I don't know much about the metrification of Canada. I actually don't know if Canadian buses and trains use km/h or mph for the speedometer. Do any old US-built locomotives in Canada retain the metric speedometer?
> ...


I grew up with feet and hands. :giggle:

Waaaay back when I was in high school there was talk of converting to metric.


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## railiner (Jul 26, 2013)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > .................I don't know much about the metrification of Canada. I actually don't know if Canadian buses and trains use km/h or mph for the speedometer. Do any old US-built locomotives in Canada retain the metric speedometer?
> ...


Most modern buses have electronic speedometers that the driver can toggle between miles or kilometers. Also linked to that switch are odometers and temperature guages (F or C). The air pressure guages have dual markings for pounds or pascals.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 27, 2013)

I couldn't find any pictures of the dual kp/h-mph speedometers, so if anyone could show what it looks like, I would be grateful. Maybe next time I head up to Canada I'll sit in the first row and talk with the driver about it works.


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 27, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I couldn't find any pictures of the dual kp/h-mph speedometers, so if anyone could show what it looks like, I would be grateful. Maybe next time I head up to Canada I'll sit in the first row and talk with the driver about it works.



Here's the speedometer on my Civic. km/h around the outside of the dial with the mph equivalent on the inside. For example when the needles on 110 (4 lane freeways here) its also showing 68 mph.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 27, 2013)

Thank you for the picture sir.


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## railiner (Jul 27, 2013)

Interestingly, (and appropriately), the older buses that have that dual marking on the face of the speedometer have it reversed if delivered in the US...that is the MPH is prominent on the outside, and the KM is smaller and on the inside....

The new electronic ones use only one numerical face, but read as either MPH or KMPH depending on how the driver selects....

So if you are driving to Montreal, say from NYC, you begin using MPH, and when you cross the border, you flip the switch to metric reading, If you are doing 62 mph say, when you flip the switch, the needle jumps to 100, even though you are going the same speed.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 28, 2013)

railiner said:


> Interestingly, (and appropriately), the older buses that have that dual marking on the face of the speedometer have it reversed if delivered in the US...that is the MPH is prominent on the outside, and the KM is smaller and on the inside....The new electronic ones use only one numerical face, but read as either MPH or KMPH depending on how the driver selects....
> 
> So if you are driving to Montreal, say from NYC, you begin using MPH, and when you cross the border, you flip the switch to metric reading, If you are doing 62 mph say, when you flip the switch, the needle jumps to 100, even though you are going the same speed.


I can barely read the inner circle. The electronic ones are probably much easier to read, especially when casting a quick glance at it on the highway. Maybe two different speedometers would be good, but it would take up lots of space.

I can see how international bus services using two different measurement units could cause an accident, like the Gimli Glider.


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## fairviewroad (Jul 29, 2013)

railiner said:


> The new electronic ones use only one numerical face, but read as either MPH or KMPH depending on how the driver selects....So if you are driving to Montreal, say from NYC, you begin using MPH, and when you cross the border, you flip the switch to metric reading, If you are doing 62 mph say, when you flip the switch, the needle jumps to 100, even though you are going the same speed.


This seems like it would be a logical feature to add on cars, too. Better yet, a GPS-linked speedometer that switches automatically

when one crosses the border (but could be manually switched back if desired).


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## chakk (Jul 29, 2013)

IIRC, the ground crews at Air Canada gates in the year of the Gimli Glider were literally using a dipstick (a wooden measuring device?) to judge the amount of fuel in the tanks. And someone got it wrong in the lookup tables converting the depth of the fuel in the tank to the number of gallons/liters/Imperial gallons that were available for burning.


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## trainman74 (Jul 29, 2013)

fairviewroad said:


> This seems like it would be a logical feature to add on cars, too.


I believe some fancier cars have that already.

Actually, cars with digital displays that can switch between English and metric have been around for decades now, although a dial-type speedometer display that can do it is something relatively new. (My father's 1987 Ford Thunderbird had a speedometer that could switch from MPH to km/h, but it wasn't a dial, just a large numerical display.) As it is, most cars made now can easily switch between English and metric for displays such as the odometer, the gas mileage, etc.

Based on my experience, though, it's really not _too_ hard to remember to look at the _small_ numbers on the dial speedometer while in Canada.


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## railiner (Jul 29, 2013)

I had a 1998 Cadillac Concours that had one. It was an analog dial with only one number scale, but a push of an 'English/Metric button would make the needle jump to the appropriate number, and a small backlit MPH or KPH would light in the center. The other readings would also convert to metric--temperature, odometer, etc.

I now have a Prius (I know !), and it has a digital display that also changes on demand....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 30, 2013)

chakk said:


> IIRC, the ground crews at Air Canada gates in the year of the Gimli Glider were literally using a dipstick (a wooden measuring device?) to judge the amount of fuel in the tanks. And someone got it wrong in the lookup tables converting the depth of the fuel in the tank to the number of gallons/liters/Imperial gallons that were available for burning.


That sure is primitive! What did US airlines do at the time?



railiner said:


> I had a 1998 Cadillac Concours that had one. It was an analog dial with only one number scale, but a push of an 'English/Metric button would make the needle jump to the appropriate number, and a small backlit MPH or KPH would light in the center. The other readings would also convert to metric--temperature, odometer, etc.
> I now have a Prius (I know !), and it has a digital display that also changes on demand....


Did your old car get scrapped? Cars have got to be the least durable of all the powered transport vehicles. I mean, to have a car get scrapped at 400,000 miles just makes cars feel like fast food. I hear it's the old business plan to build things weak so that they need replacement often and then automakers make more money.


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## chakk (Jul 30, 2013)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly, (and appropriately), the older buses that have that dual marking on the face of the speedometer have it reversed if delivered in the US...that is the MPH is prominent on the outside, and the KM is smaller and on the inside....The new electronic ones use only one numerical face, but read as either MPH or KMPH depending on how the driver selects....
> ...


Most auto drivers don't really need to read these analog speedometers. After a few times behind the wheel of their car, they can pretty much tell the speed by the position of the needle relative to a clock face. For example, in my car, the needle is at 12 oclock for 60 mph (~100 km/h), 9 o'clock for 20 mph, 3 o'clock for 100 mph...


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## railiner (Jul 30, 2013)

Futher, most experienced driver's can estimate their speed just looking out the window....the speedo just confirms what their senses tell them, although going from an old jalopy to a modern luxocruiser can at first fool the driver into thinking they are going slower than they are.......


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jul 31, 2013)

chakk said:


> Swadian Hardcore said:
> 
> 
> > railiner said:
> ...


Yes, I know, I occasionally drive a car too, but there's too many terrible drivers out there that will probably get confused with any little thing. They might even think that a Canadian "100" sign with a red circle means 100 mph! Who knows, with all the GPS-fools and cell-phone craziness?


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## NS VIA Fan (Jul 31, 2013)

Theres no Canadian 100 signs with a red circle......at least I havent seen any. Our signs look just like yours. I imagine there are a few out there that might think it means 100mph.....but just drive what you would at home. 100 = 62 mph.







The only place Ive seen signs with the speed in a red circle in North America are on the islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon. They are a Territory of France, not Canada, and only 20 miles off the coast of Newfoundland. Their currency is the Euro and their road signs......very European:

http://www.srquebec.net/spm/spma.html


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 1, 2013)

NS VIA Fan said:


> Theres no Canadian 100 signs with a red circle......at least I havent seen any. Our signs look just like yours. I imagine there are a few out there that might think it means 100mph.....but just drive what you would at home. 100 = 62 mph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, my bad again. I got Canadian signs confused with the German speed limit signs, which also use kp/h. I've been to Germany more than Canada, so I made a mistake.


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## railiner (Aug 1, 2013)

I was in Germany (Wiesbaden), back in 1999, for a business trip for a few days. Loved it there. Especially when my host handed me the keys to his Mercedes S320, for the drive back to Rhein-Main. The best part was the circled '100', with the slash across it. 'Pedal-to-the-metal' time!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 1, 2013)

railiner said:


> I was in Germany (Wiesbaden), back in 1999, for a business trip for a few days. Loved it there. Especially when my host handed me the keys to his Mercedes S320, for the drive back to Rhein-Main. The best part was the circled '100', with the slash across it. 'Pedal-to-the-metal' time!


Yeah, and Deutsche Bahn has great service, too! I once missed my stop, and they offered to drive me back in a car for no charge!

Hey, what speed did you hit with that thing?


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## railiner (Aug 3, 2013)

Got her up to 240k (149 mph)....The fastest I have ever driven. And that car on that magnificent highway was rock-steady. Amazing speed considering it was only a 3.2 liter '6'!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 4, 2013)

railiner said:


> Got her up to 240k (149 mph)....The fastest I have ever driven. And that car on that magnificent highway was rock-steady. Amazing speed considering it was only a 3.2 liter '6'!


That real fast for a car! Sure it dosen't beat an ICE, but you beat an IC! I don't drive very fast, or very much, for that matter, but maybe some ultra-speeding would be nice for once.


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## railiner (Aug 4, 2013)

Yeah....what was it Tom "Maverick" Cruise said in 'Top Gun'?.......I feel the need.....the need for speed! 

The fastest I have driven in the States, was back in pre 'double-nickel' days, when Nevada had no speed limits outside the cities. I drove at a steady 100 mph on I-91 from Las Vegas until reaching the Arizona border at Littlefield, in my new '72 Chevrolet Monte Carlo.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 4, 2013)

railiner said:


> Yeah....what was it Tom "Maverick" Cruise said in 'Top Gun'?.......I feel the need.....the need for speed!
> The fastest I have driven in the States, was back in pre 'double-nickel' days, when Nevada had no speed limits outside the cities. I drove at a steady 100 mph on I-91 from Las Vegas until reaching the Arizona border at Littlefield, in my new '72 Chevrolet Monte Carlo.


Um, I-91? I thought it was US 91 until it got replaced with I-15. I've ridden the modern highway on a Greyhound, sititng at the front, it's a great view when you come off that plateau going eastbound. After that, you go through a canyon in Arizona, San Rafael Swell in UT, and Glenwwod Canyon in CO, plus some mountains outside Denver. Sure, not everything is in daylight, but I usually get an alternating schedule so that I can enjoy that good stuff. 555 really is great Greyhound route.

Was US 91 a dual-carriageway back then? I'm not so sure about going fast on a single-carriageway.

Now I'm getting OT again!


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## railiner (Aug 4, 2013)

My bad....it was already I-15 freeway over old US 91 at that point....the road carried both route markers in that era.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 5, 2013)

railiner said:


> My bad....it was already I-15 freeway over old US 91 at that point....the road carried both route markers in that era.


Poor US 91. The Arrowhead is almost dead now, but still holding on to its breath in a small section.


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## railiner (Aug 5, 2013)

Ahhhh, another 'old highway' aficionado, eh? 

Some old famous highways seem to be making a resurgence, of sorts...most notably the "Mother Road", US-66..... 

I used to be a 'card-carrying' member of the Lincoln Highway Association, until I found myself belonging to way too many organizations.....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 5, 2013)

railiner said:


> Ahhhh, another 'old highway' aficionado, eh?  Some old famous highways seem to be making a resurgence, of sorts...most notably the "Mother Road", US-66.....
> 
> I used to be a 'card-carrying' member of the Lincoln Highway Association, until I found myself belonging to way too many organizations.....


A transport enthusiast naturally leads to old highways, right? Oh wait, that's what Greyhound thought when they diversified and then kicked themselves in the head.

I'm getting _really_ OT, but I've got to ask, what the resurgence of US 66?


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## railiner (Aug 6, 2013)

For a while, it looked like states were trying to obliterate all traces of the famous highway. They even 'decertified' it as a thru highway, and removed it's route markers, or in some cases replaced its number with another as a local state numbered highway. Now some states, pushed by on route businesses, as well as enthusiasts, have brought back a "Historic Route 66" marker and promote it as a tourist destination in of itself....


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## trainman74 (Aug 6, 2013)

railiner said:


> Now some states, pushed by on route businesses, as well as enthusiasts, have brought back a "Historic Route 66" marker and promote it as a tourist destination in of itself....


I think all the states involved now have Historic 66 markers/signs.

California has some Historic U.S. 99 markers/signs as well.


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## railiner (Aug 6, 2013)

While many of the historic highways have been over-run by their replacement Interstates, many others still exist in sections here and there, especially when going thru towns.

Probably the best of all completely intact historic routes is the Nebraska portion of US-30, which is also over a portion of the Lincoln Highway. The parallel Interstate-80 is completely separate. It is an especially rewarding railfan route, as it follows closely the Union Pacific Overland Route mainline most of the way. The double and triple track speedway has a steady parade of freight trains.....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Aug 7, 2013)

railiner said:


> While many of the historic highways have been over-run by their replacement Interstates, many others still exist in sections here and there, especially when going thru towns.
> Probably the best of all completely intact historic routes is the Nebraska portion of US-30, which is also over a portion of the Lincoln Highway. The parallel Interstate-80 is completely separate. It is an especially rewarding railfan route, as it follows closely the Union Pacific Overland Route mainline most of the way. The double and triple track speedway has a steady parade of freight trains.....


I am aware of that route, I have a big Rand McNally Road Atlas!  I'd really like to try out US Route 20 from Sioux City to Boise, but taking the US 26 shortcut in Wyoming. Maybe US 50 as well, with its legendary desolation! US 310 and US 40 seem to be the most interesting old highways that have bus service.

I think US Route 1 is also fairly intact, along with US 45. But in the West, options diminish. Very little US Highways still exist in California, only the 101 and the 50, plus 199 which used to be a spur of the old main 99.

All the old "-0" US Highways are great roads for a more relaxing drive/bus ride.


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## railiner (Aug 7, 2013)

I had thought that if I could afford it when I retire, I would acquire an old bus converted to a motorhome, and methodically travel coast to coast and border to border on as many thru numbered highways as I could......


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## CHamilton (May 27, 2014)

Here's another article about the Gimli Glider.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/05/time-commercial-aircraft-ran-fuel-mid-flight-gimli-glider/


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