# Light Rail Crash in San Francisco



## Cho Cho Charlie (Jul 18, 2009)

'A lot' of injuries after light rail cars collide in San Francisco


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 18, 2009)

Cho Cho Charlie said:


> 'A lot' of injuries after light rail cars collide in San Francisco


"Miscalculated a turn"

???

Did he spin out?


----------



## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> "Miscalculated a turn"???Did he spin out?


Sounds bogus to me. The reports say the accident occurred on the outbound track INSIDE the West Portal Station. There are no curves here at all, as the Station is at the end of a long straightaway.


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > "Miscalculated a turn"???Did he spin out?
> ...


Well I've never been there, so all I have to go on is this

Google Maps View

There are tracks curving into the station.

Although if this view is correct, the operator shouldn't be barreling around a turn that they can't see around.

Also check this video at the 10 second mark.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> There are tracks curving into the station.


The accident is said to have occurred at the Outbound Platform (at the upper right of your photo), where the Trains are just emerging from a long straight run through the Twin Peaks Tunnel. The curve does not begin until after the Trains have left the Station heading West (center of your photo).



PetalumaLoco said:


> Although if this view is correct, the operator shouldn't be barreling around a turn that they can't see around.


Agreed.


----------



## tp49 (Jul 20, 2009)

I was thinking the same. It had to be outbound and the curve is immediately west of the station where the outbound L would turn to heads towards the zoo, and the inbound L from the zoo would make a left turn into the station. From the platform at West Portal you can see clear to the Forest Hill station. West Portal/St. Francis Wood has to be one of my favorite parts of SF, I've spent a lot of time around the station.

Heard on the news tonight that the operator of the L car may have put the LRV into manual mode before he should have and hit the K in the station at approximately 25 mph.


----------



## p&sr (Jul 20, 2009)

tp49 said:


> Heard on the news tonight that the operator of the L car may have put the LRV into manual mode before he should have and hit the K in the station at approximately 25 mph.


"before he should have"... now it starts to make sense. From the Market Street Subway through the Twin Peaks Tunnel, it would make sense to operate on some kind of automatic basis. Upon LEAVING the West Portal Station, they begin street-running, and have to respond to traffic lights and cars in their lanes, which would seem to require an operator with direct control. To make this switch while ENTERING the Station could be a big mistake... especially if the operator then forgets to apply the brakes.


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Jul 20, 2009)

p&sr said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > There are tracks curving into the station.
> ...


Yeah, now I see an updated report that makes it a little clearer.


----------



## tp49 (Jul 20, 2009)

Looks like the operator may have had a medical issue prior to the crash.



> (07-19) 20:28 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- The operator of the Muni train involved in Saturday's crash at West Portal Station told investigators he blacked out shortly before the accident, a source close to the probe told The Chronicle.


The rest of the story can be found here along with the rest of the coverage from the SF Chronicle.


----------



## Green Maned Lion (Jul 20, 2009)

We seem to be having a few tragic demonstrations of the disadvantages of automatic systems these days. What do WMATA, WDWMR, and this have in common? They all have automation with manual overrides and human operators.


----------



## sechs (Jul 21, 2009)

As I recall the problem with the DC Metro was that the automatic control system malfunctioned. It didn't know that the struck train was there, and, therefore, didn't stop the striking train. The motorman in the striking train appears to have manually set the breaks.

The apparent issue here is that the automatic system was disengaged and the motorman didn't properly control the vehicle.

In neither case was the existence of a manual override an inherent cause of the accident.


----------

