# Is UPS shipping by train?



## CHamilton

I was tracking a UPS package, and saw something very interesting (emphasis added).

Location Date Local Time Activity 
Redmond, WA, United States 11/25/2013 11:16 A.M. Arrival Scan 
Seattle, WA, United States 11/24/2013 11:58 P.M. Arrival Scan 
*Minot, ND, United States* *11/23/2013* *4:27 A.M.* *Late train.* 
Eagan, MN, United States 11/20/2013 1:57 A.M. Departure Scan 
Eagan, MN, United States 11/19/2013 6:09 P.M. Origin Scan 
United States 11/19/2013 2:09 P.M. Order Processed: Ready for UPS

Do you suppose my package was on a BNSF intermodal train, or are they using Amtrak now?


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## Bob Dylan

Very Interesting! I dont think UPS has a Contract with Amtrak Charlie ,but with all the Delays Due to Heavy Freight Traffic on the Hi Line and with Winter Coming they might not be Contracting with BNSF Much Longer!


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## Devil's Advocate

UPS has been transporting freight via railroads for as long as I can remember. This arrangement works on many levels, including as a hedge against oil spikes and as a counterbalance to weather related interruptions. If you have the national rail network at your disposal then you have more shipping routes than highways alone can provide. When the weather is nice you can still save on fuel costs for long distance runs. By establishing long term high volume shipping contracts that ship by rail even when it's not necessary UPS is able to ensure expedited handling that takes precedence over most other freight. These are some of the most time sensitive shipments on rails and will usually receive scheduling and routing priority over unit trains and conventional freight loads in order to avoid penalties and to maintain the integrity of the contract. To my knowledge UPS freight is typically handled by unit trains hauling truck-ready trailers and not via ISO intermodal containers. Both types use common axle construction and are assembled and disassembled with overhead cranes, but unlike ISO containers the UPS trailers don't need a truck undercarriage to be attached or detached before departing from or arriving at an intermodal distribution center.


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## CHamilton

Thanks very much. That's very informative.


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## amtkstn

Fed Ex also ships by rail. About ten years ago some parts for my computer were in a train wreck. I had to wait a week to get my computer fixed.


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## ALC Rail Writer




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## railiner

Very descriptive photo....of course the downside of TOFC vs COFC is you cannot get double-stack efficiency........


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## ALC Rail Writer

From the UPS site:

"Your company has a dilemma. You know that rail can provide a cost-effective way to ship your goods - but is it reliable?

In today's business world, where any delay can spell disaster, UPS Supply Chain Solutions can provide a dependable, cost-effective rail option.


Our trailer-on-flat-car service offers climate-controlled trailers for perishable products that need protection from the heat or cold, such as produce, flowers, poultry, beverages, and other non-hazardous materials. Your products will reach their destination on time while you reduce transportation costs.

Non-perishable or general freight can also be handled with seamless efficiency. As one of the largest rail customers, we have the experience necessary to establish the service controls and schedules so vital to your business."

http://ups-scs.com/transportation/rail.html


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## railiner

Too bad Amtrak cannot do the same, as a "large rail customer".......:]


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## amtkstn

They tried that for a few years with road raiiers. The freight rr did not like the compition. Also there were too late trains due to having to switch the cars on the back.


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## printman2000

I live less than a mile from the BNSF transcon. See those UPS trains all the time.


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## jis

AFAIR UPS uses both TOFC and COFC.


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## Agent

Here's a BNSF train with UPS trailers. And I believe the plain white containers that are both double stacked and single stacked are UPS containers.


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## railiner

Nice! Thanks for posting.


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## chakk

The UPS Train on the Chessie System has a very high priority. If engineers delay it for any reason, they can expect a call from HQ the next morning requesting an explanation why (as I was told in October by a current CSX engineer).


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## railiner

ALC Rail Writer said:


> From the UPS site:
> 
> "Your company has a dilemma. You know that rail can provide a cost-effective way to ship your goods - but is it reliable?
> 
> In today's business world, where any delay can spell disaster, UPS Supply Chain Solutions can provide a dependable, cost-effective rail option.
> 
> 
> Our trailer-on-flat-car service offers climate-controlled trailers for perishable products that need protection from the heat or cold, such as produce, flowers, poultry, beverages, and other non-hazardous materials. Your products will reach their destination on time while you reduce transportation costs.
> 
> Non-perishable or general freight can also be handled with seamless efficiency. As one of the largest rail customers, we have the experience necessary to establish the service controls and schedules so vital to your business."
> 
> http://ups-scs.com/transportation/rail.html





railiner said:


> Too bad Amtrak cannot do the same, as a "large rail customer".......:]





amtkstn said:


> They tried that for a few years with road raiiers. The freight rr did not like the compition. Also there were too late trains due to having to switch the cars on the back.


My comment was a sarcastic comparison of Amtrak's apparent difficulties in its relationship with its host railroads and UPS's statement in the last sentence of the quote.....


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## cirdan

railiner said:


> My comment was a sarcastic comparison of Amtrak's apparent difficulties in its relationship with its host railroads and UPS's statement in the last sentence of the quote.....


I think that difference can often be a result of how much money you're willing to put on the table.

Maybe it's also a question of how much managers are willing to stand up and demand good service. Certain railroads may perceive Amtrak as a soft punchbag that doesn't hit back.


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## railiner

I like that UPS tagline: "We run the tightest ship in the shipping business".....very telling....


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## Devil's Advocate

And yet some Amtrak routes seem to have excellent scheduling and priority. On my most recent trip from San Antonio to Sacramento we only had to wait for two trains. One was another Amtrak train which hardly counts and the other was a freight train that had somehow stopped short of fully entering the siding. After a few minutes the freight had moved far enough to clear the switch and we were on our way.

With every other meet, and we're talking dozens if not hundreds over the course of several days, Amtrak had priority. I know there are routes where Amtrak is still routinely kicked to the curb, and this can include almost any route once an Amtrak train is delayed beyond the recovery window, but in my experience this has been improving a lot where I live.

Interesting to note that UPS now uses sea vans on domestic segments. The number of domestic intermodal facilities which can easily support first and last mile segments with international spec containers has increased quite a bit over the years, so this makes sense. In many cases sea vans are no longer primarily associated with port cities as in the past. Incidentally I happen to see a lot of UPS hardware during my workday commute, usually in the form of widebody aircraft due to their maintenance contract with San Antonio Aerospace.


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## railiner

I suppose the economy of using double-stack, and improved transfer operations, has negated whatever advantage TOFC had in the past?...........


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## NW cannonball

Improved transfer operations and load tracking - yeah, for sure. GPS on every train, ship and road tractor, RFID on every trailer, railcar, and most all containers.

Still seeing UPS trailers on flatcars, don't see the J B Hunt trailers any more, very rarely see one of those old-time UP "Golden Pig" trailers, but never see one carried on a train. All going, or gone, to containerized.

I've watched, from a distance, operations at a major container port (POS - that means Port of Seattle and nothing else) - and I'm amazed - their newish cranes each move a container from ship's deck to railcar (and to the *right *railcar) every minute. I've also watched intermodal operations at a flatland facility, where the slower, klutzy-looking machines pick the containers off the train and drop them onto the container-trailers. Slower, but still very efficient.

I've never seen, but imagine, that in the road-tractor cab, the screen displays something like "your load 789123 from point A to point B will be ready in Bay 76B at 16:23". Of course, there will always be delays and mechanical failures - but the whole container-freight system seems to be working really really well, overall.

e

PS -- a few decades back, I spoke with a software guy who was working with a Class I on the "new technology of the day" - the color bar-codes that were on some railcars back then. That project totally failed. So, obviously, not all new tech stuff works, but when several technologies work well together, and make good economic sense - good news - world saves billions, stuff gets from here to there on-time --


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## chakk

The transfer of containers to and from truck carriers is handled in an amazingly efficient manner at the CSX transfer facility near North Baltimore, OH. We were told by the division manager of the site that truckers that arrive to pick up loads have a jumbotron in their waiting area that tells them exactly where to go to receive their particular container. Similar setup for truckers delivering trailers.

The place is doing such a good business (eating Norfolk Southern's lunch) that they will soon be expanding with an additional 2 transfer cranes to be added to the property to handle the extra traffic they have garnered. Purchased from Austria. Parts delivered by ship to Toledo, then brought to the site (mostly by truck) and assembled on site -- Tab A into Slot B, etc.


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## Devil's Advocate

NW cannonball said:


> A few decades back, I spoke with a software guy who was working with a Class I on the "new technology of the day" - the color bar-codes that were on some railcars back then. That project totally failed. So, obviously, not all new tech stuff works, but when several technologies work well together, and make good economic sense - good news - world saves billions, stuff gets from here to there on-time --


Color barcodes?

I've seen lots of barcodes in my day, and these days they're almost everywhere, but I've never seen one that had more than one color. Must have been before my time. RFID systems aren't exactly foolproof either, but they do work amazingly well compared to manual logging. RFID scanners can read tags as they zip by at speed with no need for the train to slow down. I have to work with such a scanning process as part of a ticketing system I support. It mainly revolves around commercial trucking but it also scans any railcars that enter the appropriate plant lead and builds the train in the proper sequence. The scanning process itself is not a very complex system, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong, from temperature extremes to lightning strikes to water damage and so on. Not the sort of thing I'm used to worrying about since most of what I support lives in a well protected datacenter with heavy duty line conditioners, emergency backup batteries, and automatic electrical generators. It's rare for the scanner itself to fail, but I can't say the same for data converters and network hardware deployed at the scanner's location.


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## railiner

The new technology is really something...I was an extra-board, yard clerk in The CB&Q Denver yard way back when we had to walk the length of the yard in the elements, pen and clipboard in hand, lantern on arm, copying the reporting marks and then transfering them onto old IBM punchcards for the computer to digest. The yardmaster would have a desk with a cupboard containing slots, sort of like a mail-sorting clerk, and place them into slots representing the various tracks.....our intermodal TOFC ramps were at another facility. Times have changed....


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## Bob

UPS Trucks that go by train train are empty and our going back to where they came from or other destination. It is cheaper for them to send empty trucks by train than pay for lots of diesel.

-UPS Vice President


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## TinCan782

UPS also uses the Postal Service for final delivery sometimes! Some things I have shipped to my work address (which has daily UPS service) are delivered by the USPS!


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## Shortline

Devil's Advocate said:


> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few decades back, I spoke with a software guy who was working with a Class I on the "new technology of the day" - the color bar-codes that were on some railcars back then. That project totally failed. So, obviously, not all new tech stuff works, but when several technologies work well together, and make good economic sense - good news - world saves billions, stuff gets from here to there on-time --
> 
> 
> 
> Color barcodes?
> 
> I've seen lots of barcodes in my day, and these days they're almost everywhere, but I've never seen one that had more than one color. Must have been before my time. .
Click to expand...

Stole this pic from another site after a search, they're disapearing, been a while since I've noticed one still on a car. I think this started in the late 60's or early 70's, for some sort of optical scanner cars would pass. Now they use AEI Tags for all equipment.


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## NorthShore

Here in Chicago, UPS has shipment centers along major rail lines and yards. Passing over a bridge or along a highway by one of these centers, one can see several tracks of unit trains with UPS trailers.


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## Devil's Advocate

Bob said:


> UPS Trucks that go by train train are empty and our going back to where they came from or other destination. It is cheaper for them to send empty trucks by train than pay for lots of diesel. UPS Vice President


Sorry Bob but many of those trailers are in fact full of parcels being shipped.








Shortline said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NW cannonball said:
> 
> 
> 
> A few decades back, I spoke with a software guy who was working with a Class I on the "new technology of the day" - the color bar-codes that were on some railcars back then. That project totally failed. So, obviously, not all new tech stuff works, but when several technologies work well together, and make good economic sense - good news - world saves billions, stuff gets from here to there on-time --
> 
> 
> 
> Color barcodes?
> 
> I've seen lots of barcodes in my day, and these days they're almost everywhere, but I've never seen one that had more than one color. Must have been before my time. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stole this pic from another site after a search, they're disapearing, been a while since I've noticed one still on a car. I think this started in the late 60's or early 70's, for some sort of optical scanner cars would pass. Now they use AEI Tags for all equipment.
Click to expand...

Seeing is believing, but what I cannot understand is what is being accomplished by adding color? Wouldn't it just fade away to varying degrees like all the other paint? It's not like you need a lot of information to ID the car. Even early codes like 3-of-9 should be able to handle "NRLX528230" without much space or effort.


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## Paulus

Devil's Advocate said:


> Bob said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPS Trucks that go by train train are empty and our going back to where they came from or other destination. It is cheaper for them to send empty trucks by train than pay for lots of diesel. UPS Vice President
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Bob but many of those trailers are in fact full of parcels being shipped.
Click to expand...

I suspect he's referring to truck on flat car shipments rather than container shipments.


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