# Would a Presidential "Amtrak One" Actually Work? 🚅



## Devil's Advocate (Jan 7, 2021)

While looking at the next steps for the incoming government (barring more domestic terrorism) I bumped into the following article that at first gave me a chuckle and then made me wonder if it's actually possible.



> Biden could send a powerful message by switching from Air Force One to Amtrak One for presidential travel between cities a few hundred miles apart. That’s the so-called “sweet spot” where rail travel is more convenient and environmentally sound than driving or flying. Axios reports the president-elect and his transition team are already considering traveling by train to the inauguration on Jan. 20, 2021, “ditching the typical flourish of arriving in Washington on an Air Force plane, pulling in instead on the same Amtrak train he rode to and from Delaware for 30 years as a senator.”











Air Force One to Amtrak One: Joe Biden can accelerate economic recovery by renewing America’s rails | Opinion


As president, Biden can make Amtrak One a regular part of his travel, reassuring a pandemic-wary public that transit is safe.




www.inquirer.com





Is that an actual possibility? I know there are many rules and regulations for presidential travel that would likely make such a solution tedious and difficult but if a president really wanted to could they employ a presidential train instead of a plane for shorter domestic trips? If not what would stop them from doing so?


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## Trogdor (Jan 7, 2021)

I don’t see it for a few reasons:

One, the crazy logistics and security that must be undertaken every time he travels. It’s fairly easy to secure an airport for a couple of hours. It’s another thing altogether to secure hundreds of miles of railroad. You’d basically have to shut down the entire railroad when he travels, and then there’s still the issue of securing the right of way.

Two, Air Force One needs to be able to redirect at a moments notice in response to changing circumstances, security threats, etc. Absolutely impossible to do with a train.


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 7, 2021)

It was good enough for Harry Truman.


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## railiner (Jan 7, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> It was good enough for Harry Truman.


And a coach and team of horses was good enough in the 18th century, right?


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## Exvalley (Jan 7, 2021)

The cost of outfitting a train with all of the specialized equipment that is on Air Force One (and that the President needs access to when they travel) would likely make it prohibitively expensive. The new Air Force One (a modified Boeing 747-8) is predicted to cost $5.2 billion. Compare that to the list price of a 747-8, which is roughly $420 million.

And this doesn't even factor in increased security costs for traveling overland rather than at 39,000 feet. 

To be honest, if that sort of money is going to be spent on rail, I would rather that it be spent on projects that benefit everyone, not just the President.


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## me_little_me (Jan 7, 2021)

For short trips, the president doesn't need AF1. The Marine Helicopter is often much better, not requiring airports (and their closure) and providing faster, safer and better point to point transportation than either a train or plane plus riding on the highways in a convoy of armored limos.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 7, 2021)

Maybe Amtrak Joe can just use Amtrak 1 on the NEC to travel between Washington and Wilington,( his Home),Philly and NYC!!


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## AFS1970 (Jan 7, 2021)

A couple of factors would make this not a great option. The increased weight of an armor plated train, think about how much the beast weighs compared to a normal limo, might make it cost prohibitive. As for securing miles of rail, think about the right of way, and adjoining properties. 

There is a pretty good National Geographic special from a few years ago about how they prepare for a presidential visit. Also train stations are harder than airports because they don't need to use the terminal. If you did that with a rail line it might mean stopping in a yard out of town. 

I can tell you that living in a town nearby to where one of the first President Bush's daughters lived even when he took the helicopter it was quite the undertaking.


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## Mailliw (Jan 7, 2021)

Not going to happen. President-Elect Biden might be able to charter a train to DC like Obama did, but after that it's Air Force or Marine One. It just won't be practical for anything other than say a short ceremonial trip on the new Acela.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 7, 2021)

I think it is something doable to be honest. It was done for almost an entire century before the advent of Air Force I. It really isn't that hard to outfit a railcar with all of the amour plating, bullet proof windows, and communications equipment required. If you really wanted a budget option just go to Gold Coast Railroad Museum and pull FDR's car out and get a valid PC1, and PC2 done on it fix some of the other components. I know the Wisconsin (EX MILW PS Office Car) also allegedly has amour plating as well. So it really wouldn't be that hard. 

As far as securing the ROW it really isn't that hard. You wouldn't have to shut the railroad down prior to the arrival of the special. Now one should spike the switches shut but that doesn't take long to do and the secret service had no issue with not doing that on his campaign special. Nor did they have an issue with not running a security train ahead of him. 

If you don't publicize when or how he is getting somewhere you wouldn't really need to protect the track that much. The railroad can be tight lipped when it needs to be. Now that being said some railfan might happen to catch a special running around and post about it. But it wouldn't be hard to camouflage it as a Office Car Special for a freight railroad. Which wouldn't get any large media coverage, and might not even get railfan coverage. I seam to think I am one of the few people who goes out to chase those in my area. 

So is it doable yes. Will it happen probably not.


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## WWW (Jan 8, 2021)

Trogdor said:


> I don’t see it for a few reasons:
> 
> One, the crazy logistics and security that must be undertaken every time he travels. It’s fairly easy to secure an airport for a couple of hours. It’s another thing altogether to secure hundreds of miles of railroad. You’d basically have to shut down the entire railroad when he travels, and then there’s still the issue of securing the right of way.
> 
> Two, Air Force One needs to be able to redirect at a moments notice in response to changing circumstances, security threats, etc. Absolutely impossible to do with a train.



Let the Secret Service work out the details - it is possible and doable.

Anywhere along the NEC a helicopter (or two) could pace the train and secure the President if needed to an airport with the 747 Air Force One standing by.
Keeping it simple while avoiding a lot of complicated modes of transportation wasting manpower and facilities.


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## Trogdor (Jan 8, 2021)

WWW said:


> Anywhere along the NEC a helicopter (or two) could pace the train and secure the President if needed to an airport with the 747 Air Force One standing by.
> Keeping it simple while avoiding a lot of complicated modes of transportation wasting manpower and facilities.



Your first sentence completely contradicts your second.


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## Trogdor (Jan 8, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> I think it is something doable to be honest. It was done for almost an entire century before the advent of Air Force I. It really isn't that hard to outfit a railcar with all of the amour plating, bullet proof windows, and communications equipment required. If you really wanted a budget option just go to Gold Coast Railroad Museum and pull FDR's car out and get a valid PC1, and PC2 done on it fix some of the other components. I know the Wisconsin (EX MILW PS Office Car) also allegedly has amour plating as well. So it really wouldn't be that hard.



What was done in the Roosevelt era and what can (and needs to) be done in the year 2021 are different things. Obviously, aviation was an entirely different animal back then. What has also changed is the US’s role in the world, and, by extension, the need for communications and security. All of this has already been worked into existing procedures for flying the president. Procedures used in 1941 aren’t exactly relevant.



> As far as securing the ROW it really isn't that hard. You wouldn't have to shut the railroad down prior to the arrival of the special. Now one should spike the switches shut but that doesn't take long to do and the secret service had no issue with not doing that on his campaign special. Nor did they have an issue with not running a security train ahead of him.



There’s a difference between a presidential candidate and the actual president. Even if the Secret Service is providing personal security, there’s also the everything else that is involved in moving the president around.

When the president is moving by road, they shut roads down in the area along the route of the motorcade. When at the airport, air traffic stops until the president is clear.



> If you don't publicize when or how he is getting somewhere you wouldn't really need to protect the track that much. The railroad can be tight lipped when it needs to be.



Not from my experience. Now it’s possible things have changed in the past seven years, but my experience at Amtrak includes people accidentally copying the entire company on messages, numerous times, and someone inadvertently sending me (who had nothing to do with the situation) an email about the security of a vice presidential motorcade going over an Amtrak grade crossing (and who then had to call me up and ask me to delete the email).



> Now that being said some railfan might happen to catch a special running around and post about it. But it wouldn't be hard to camouflage it as a Office Car Special for a freight railroad. Which wouldn't get any large media coverage, and might not even get railfan coverage. I seam to think I am one of the few people who goes out to chase those in my area.



Do that more than once or twice and it will become pretty obvious, and railfans (among others) will start camping out whenever there is news of a presidential visit.


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## railiner (Jan 8, 2021)

Trying to keep a presidential train ride a secret for security? Begs the question: Why use the train, then? The whole purpose of having the president ride a train is to garner lots of publicity, crowds, and photo opportunities...


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## me_little_me (Jan 8, 2021)

Other reasons why it is impractical:

Trains can't easily be diverted in case of an attempted attack. Trains can only stop (slowly) and then backup. Limos have quicker stopping, can go in multiple directions and since there are more than one in a presidential convoy, can provide increased protection and attack the attackers. Planes can turn in many directions, albeit slowly for a 747.

Far less sophistication is required to attack a train vs a plane. It's on the ground and moving in one direction only.

In the old days, an attack was more likely to come from a single crazy person or dedicated anarchist. That's why past presidents needed far less protection and could use train transport. Today, we have huge groups of crazies who can get a hold of huge amounts of explosives and high powered rocket weapons. Moreover, drones change the whole picture as they can be sent in flocks like birds all pre-programmed so no active communication is required.

Since a train is limited to tracks, it is not necessary to attack it directly and overcome its armor. Attacking the weak track is a lot easier.


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## 20th Century Rider (Jan 8, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> It was good enough for Harry Truman.


But that was a different era where rail travel was more available and extensive... and air travel security systems were not yet developed.


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## 20th Century Rider (Jan 8, 2021)

Although there is discussion of the impracticality of a 'Train One,' there are situations where a presidential train would be significant today. Logistically to bring the President closer to crowds while still surrounded by security, trains can travel through urban areas where crowds can gather. This would work as a campaign and ceremonial function. Recently the funeral train for President George Herbert Walker Bush allowed many a chance to extend condolences. 

American rail is part of the American heritage... and President Biden's support may bring new possibilities. Below... pics of the Biden campaign train... and the funeral train of President George HW Bush.


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## Mailliw (Jan 8, 2021)

It's worth noting the only world leaders to travel by private train today are Queen Elizabeth II and Kim Jong-un. For Her Majesty it's a convenient way to take lodging with her to fit more engagements in. Security is less of a concern in the UK and she actually takes regular passenger trains sometimes (first class of course). Of course in North Korea the Leader can do as he pleases and the costs or public inconvenience of his security are irrelevant.


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 8, 2021)

There's an old movie (b&w) that is about President traveling by train through Surprise, AZ. 
There is an assassination attempt but of course it's foiled.


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## Pat Harper (Jan 8, 2021)

Train travel is okay for some, but if Biden is in favor of the "Green New Deal", we won't have it around for much longer unless trains convert to some other form of fuel. Now they run on diesel fuel, which is one of the fossil fuels, and those are supposedly on the way out. What other forms of fuel are available other than electricity? Steam power? Then you have to use coal or wood to fuel the fire that produces the steam. Coal is also a fossil fuel that will no longer be available under the "Green New Deal". The only thing left would be wood, which would necessitate cutting down a lot of trees.


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## Exvalley (Jan 8, 2021)

Pat Harper said:


> Train travel is okay for some, but if Biden is in favor of the "Green New Deal", we won't have it around for much longer unless trains convert to some other form of fuel. Now they run on diesel fuel, which is one of the fossil fuels, and those are supposedly on the way out.


If the taxes on diesel go up fares will have to go up to cover the added expense.


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 8, 2021)

Didn't BN have a program to replace diesel with CNG? 
The tanks take a lot of room but they could have a ' tender" behind the locomotive.


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## 20th Century Rider (Jan 8, 2021)

Pat Harper said:


> Train travel is okay for some, but if Biden is in favor of the "Green New Deal", we won't have it around for much longer unless trains convert to some other form of fuel. Now they run on diesel fuel, which is one of the fossil fuels, and those are supposedly on the way out. What other forms of fuel are available other than electricity? Steam power? Then you have to use coal or wood to fuel the fire that produces the steam. Coal is also a fossil fuel that will no longer be available under the "Green New Deal". The only thing left would be wood, which would necessitate cutting down a lot of trees.



Electricity which can be created using green methods is becoming widely used throughout the world... including the new HS lines in Europe, Asia, Africa, and China. That said... it remains how do-able that would be for present Amtrak routes outside of the Eastern corridor. But for sure, America has faced bigger challenges.

Meanwhile the new Tier 4 Locomotives coming out to power LD trains will be more fuel efficient with reduced pollution. While that's not the best answer it's a step for progress. We still have a long way to go to update our rail system.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 8, 2021)

Most of these posts sound like (admittedly valid and rational) reasons for why it would be too expensive and impractical, but not necessarily why it cannot be done. There are numerous examples of modern presidents visiting dangerous locations or tying up infrastructure for hours on end with little regard for cost, impact, or flexibility. I wasn't intending to ask if it was a good idea so much as what (if anything) would prevent it.



Pat Harper said:


> Train travel is okay for some, but if Biden is in favor of the "Green New Deal", we won't have it around for much longer unless trains convert to some other form of fuel. Now they run on diesel fuel, which is one of the fossil fuels, and those are supposedly on the way out. What other forms of fuel are available other than electricity? Steam power? Then you have to use coal or wood to fuel the fire that produces the steam. Coal is also a fossil fuel that will no longer be available under the "Green New Deal". The only thing left would be wood, which would necessitate cutting down a lot of trees.


Tier 4 locomotives will likely survive with little or no impact but Tier 3 models and below may require substantial modifications to reach new compliance standards. Genset switching may see a return and I would not be surprised if there is a push to expand electric service as well, but that would take time to become a viable option. I'm not sure why you would select this particular hill to die on but I guess that's your choice.



Exvalley said:


> If the taxes on diesel go up fares will have to go up to cover the added expense.


Amtrak is already exempt from many taxes and those that remain can be reduced, removed, or suspended by will of Congress. A functioning government has little incentive to tax itself and so long as Amtrak avoids carrying third party freight these benefits should survive a legal challenge in a rational justice system (jury still out on that though).


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## Mailliw (Jan 8, 2021)

There are experimental hydrogen trains. Diesel-electric engine can run on biodiesel, even conveniently diesel trains are greener than airplanes or fleets of cars.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 8, 2021)

tgstubbs1 said:


> There's an old movie (b&w) that is about President traveling by train through Surprise, AZ.
> There is an assassination attempt but of course it's foiled.


It's a Frank Sinatra " B" Movie with Frankie as the Bad Guy Assasin, it's called "Suddenly"?


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## tgstubbs1 (Jan 8, 2021)

That's it. I think they made up the name.

It was a close call, but the President made it safely all the way to LA.

I guess the crooks didn't think just derailing the train would be enough, so they planned to shoot him.


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## jis (Jan 8, 2021)

Biden to take train to Washington for inauguration, moving forward to 'not be deterred' by violence or virus


Joe Biden will begin his new journey as the 46th President of the United States in a familiar way: riding Amtrak from Wilmington to Washington.




www.cnn.com


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 8, 2021)

jis said:


> Biden to take train to Washington for inauguration, moving forward to 'not be deterred' by violence or virus
> 
> 
> Joe Biden will begin his new journey as the 46th President of the United States in a familiar way: riding Amtrak from Wilmington to Washington.
> ...


Guess I’ll be hanging out at/near NRK on the 19th.


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## jis (Jan 8, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Guess I’ll be hanging out at/near NRK on the 19th.


Say Hello to the Secret Service guys


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 8, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Guess I’ll be hanging out at/near NRK on the 19th.


The article doesn't say what the consist will be nor give times for security reasons.

I would think he won't use Acela equipment so it will probably be similar to the "Ridin with Biden" Special that he rode during his campaign through Ohio and Pennsylvania!


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## jebr (Jan 8, 2021)

Mailliw said:


> It's worth noting the only world leaders to travel by private train today are Queen Elizabeth II and Kim Jong-un. For Her Majesty it's a convenient way to take lodging with her to fit more engagements in. Security is less of a concern in the UK and she actually takes regular passenger trains sometimes (first class of course). Of course in North Korea the Leader can do as he pleases and the costs or public inconvenience of his security are irrelevant.



Both of those are also rather different instances than POTUS.

On the North Korea front, there's also a lot of restrictions already within the country which likely minimize internal risk for sabotage or other issues by taking a train. It's easier to keep a rail line safe when you have an authoritarian regime throughout the entire country.

For Queen Elizabeth II, her role is largely ceremonial in terms of the day-to-day politics of the United Kingdom. She certainly has the power of the podium, and technically she has a lot of power vested in the office of the Queen, but practically speaking the power of the United Kingdom rests with Parliament - if the Queen tried to usurp that there'd be some major crises in the UK. I'm not sure if we'd be seeing the Prime Minister of the UK in a standard passenger rail car in revenue service, even first class!


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## AmtrakBlue (Jan 8, 2021)

jis said:


> Say Hello to the Secret Service guys


Just saw a picture someone took in 2009 of Obama's train passing NRK. Hmm, might have to plot another location. They're going to need a lot of Secret Service guys if they're going to block the whole trail. 

If it's not going to be too cold, maybe I'll just camp out somewhere on the trail with my camp chair.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 9, 2021)

It has been reported that there were numerous red flags and warning signs that were largely ignored prior to the violent and deadly storming of our nation's Capitol. In retrospect this news shines a harsher light on prior reports that switches were apparently left unsecured with hazmat trains allowed in close proximity of the previous charter.









Extremists intensify calls for violence ahead of Inauguration Day


In the weeks before the riot at the US Capitol, the warning signs were clear: online posts from hate groups and right-wing groups agitating for civil war and attacks on law enforcement. Experts are warning that the calls for violence have only intensified ahead of Inauguration Day, when...




www.cnn.com












Joe Biden to have new Secret Service team amid concern about Trump loyalty


Agents familiar from time as vice-president to return, with some members of detail having reportedly discouraged mask-wearing




www.theguardian.com












Capitol Police chief resigning after riot at U.S. Capitol


Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund is resigning after the violent protests on the U.S. Capitol just a day prior.




www.cbsnews.com


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## jis (Jan 9, 2021)

There used to be a different sort of President Special consisting usually of a couple of cars attached to various Amtrak trains and occasionally run as a self standing train where there was no Amtrak service. This of course was a special for the Amtrak President (Boardman) and did not require much security.


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## Nick Farr (Jan 9, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Is that an actual possibility?



*Yes*. It absolutely is a possibility and something that should be explored. The power of this action is more symbolic than actual--and the symbolic gesture towards prioritizing rail travel is important enough to support this effort.

While perhaps impractical for LD travel around the country, just the existence of an "Amtrak One" sends a positive message about passenger rail travel, even if Biden never uses it.

If Biden is to take the NEC to go from DC to Boston, or DC to Delaware, just bringing in the Secret Service to make NEC facilities more secure is a huge win for rail travel. Just like in airports, they put in HiDef cameras for terrorists but they use them afterwards to catch regular thieves.

It could work outside the NEC as well. Even if Biden were flown into Detroit and took "Amtrak One" from there to Chicago, the spectacle alone is worth the added costs of security. Imagine if they were able to rehabilitate buildings with sidings on them and use them for "Whistlestop" events.

Imagine if MSM was showing pictures of how beautiful the CZ route between Denver and SLC is!

As far as security goes, despite what events at the Capitol lead you to believe, most Presidential security is threat intelligence based and is very good. They know who has the capacity to make threats on the president and can usually address those threats long before people with weapons get close to POTUS or whatever vehicle they're traveling on.

There are a ton of ways to make this work. I hope the Biden administration acts on it.


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## Devil's Advocate (Jan 9, 2021)

Mailliw said:


> There are experimental hydrogen trains. Diesel-electric engine can run on biodiesel, even conveniently diesel trains are greener than airplanes or fleets of cars.


Greener now with room for improvement. One thing I've often wondered is why diesel electrics don't seem to capture anything from the dynamic breaking process. So far as I am aware the energy goes to a large resistor bank to be blown out as exhaust heat. That seems rather wasteful when it should be possible to capture it in a battery tender or slug conversion. Maybe we could see a _Tesla Tender_ product with full current connectivity as part of a future Tier 5 spec.



Nick Farr said:


> *Yes*. It absolutely is a possibility and something that should be explored. The power of this action is more symbolic than actual--and the symbolic gesture towards prioritizing rail travel is important enough to support this effort. While perhaps impractical for LD travel around the country, just the existence of an "Amtrak One" sends a positive message about passenger rail travel, even if Biden never uses it.


I'm inclined to agree. Start the process and plant the seed now so it can hopefully grow in relevance over time.


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## Seaboard92 (Jan 9, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Just saw a picture someone took in 2009 of Obama's train passing NRK. Hmm, might have to plot another location. They're going to need a lot of Secret Service guys if they're going to block the whole trail.
> 
> If it's not going to be too cold, maybe I'll just camp out somewhere on the trail with my camp chair.



Good luck finding a spot I've chased multiple POTUS Moves now and it is quite a challenge to find a spot where the Secret Service, or Department of Homeland Security will leave a person alone. It is annoying that the people are kept from getting close enough to get a good photo, or don't tell you that you are in the wrong spot till it's too late to move somewhere else. On the initial Biden Special my friends and I looked at Audi's at a trackside dealership every time the Secret Service chopper would go overhead. Then when the train came we took our cameras out. 



jis said:


> There used to be a different sort of President Special consisting usually of a couple of cars attached to various Amtrak trains and occasionally run as a self standing train where there was no Amtrak service. This of course was a special for the Amtrak President (Boardman) and did not require much security.



Most of the railroads still run these actually. It's the only dependable day that one will see the CSX Police when it comes generally. Usually these attract maybe one or two railfans for a few hours. Nothing special usually about their security however. 



Nick Farr said:


> *Yes*. It absolutely is a possibility and something that should be explored. The power of this action is more symbolic than actual--and the symbolic gesture towards prioritizing rail travel is important enough to support this effort.
> 
> While perhaps impractical for LD travel around the country, just the existence of an "Amtrak One" sends a positive message about passenger rail travel, even if Biden never uses it.
> 
> ...



I see the importance of the symbolic and political meaning of a campaign train. It moves on the ground and as much as it's hard to believe the railroad is part of the American Soul. Railroads cut across so many small towns and cities that they have found their way into our soul collectively. It is a way to have personal campaign without actually physically stopping in a small town. Look at a town like Cassat, SC I can promise you no President or candidate has ever stopped in that little town without a traffic light. But if you announced it far enough in advance I could promise you the entire population of the town would be at the track to see the politician. It's a way to show that you understand the people who live in rural areas that you care. 

Railroads aren't as effective in the larger cities and metropolises but for small towns, and county seats they are a godsend. You can reach 200 towns in a day (counting the ones you don't stop in) many of those are towns no politician will ever visit. A politician visiting even if he only goes by will be talked about for years after the event. Politics is a hearts and minds game and the railroad is the best way to reach those hearts and minds. 

I don't think they would rehabilitate buildings however for a one of special but it would be good from a preservation standpoint because the more eyes that see something needs help it might potentially come to fruition. It took the Camden, SC Mayor's child leaving from that station on Amtrak in the middle of the night to finally get some help to that structure several years ago. I remember it having shingles hanging from the roof up until at least 2011. 

I probably wouldn't route a campaign special on the CZ between Denver and Salt Lake City a very low population, and a very slow route. I would likely route it via the UP Transcon across Wyoming and do some campaign events in those areas instead.


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## PVD (Jan 9, 2021)

Exvalley said:


> If the taxes on diesel go up fares will have to go up to cover the added expense.


Amtrak is exempt from taxes directly related to passenger travel


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## me_little_me (Jan 9, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Greener now with room for improvement. One thing I've often wondered is why diesel electrics don't seem to capture anything from the dynamic breaking process. So far as I am aware the energy goes to a large resistor bank to be blown out as exhaust heat. That seems rather wasteful when it should be possible to capture it in a battery tender or slug conversion. Maybe we could see a _Tesla Tender_ product with full current connectivity as part of a future Tier 5 spec.
> 
> 
> I'm inclined to agree. Start the process and plant the seed now so it can hopefully grow in relevance over time.


They can and do:
Hybrid RR engines


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## Night Ranger (Jan 9, 2021)

_As far as security goes, despite what events at the Capitol lead you to believe, most Presidential security is threat intelligence based and is very good. They know who has the capacity to make threats on the president and can usually address those threats long before people with weapons get close to POTUS or whatever vehicle they're traveling on._

Nick Farr, I hope you are correct. I was a senior in high school on November 22, 1963, at 1:30 that afternoon. I never want to feel that way again. 

I agree that there are tons of ways to make this work if the will to do it is there.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 9, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> Good luck finding a spot I've chased multiple POTUS Moves now and it is quite a challenge to find a spot where the Secret Service, or Department of Homeland Security will leave a person alone. It is annoying that the people are kept from getting close enough to get a good photo, or don't tell you that you are in the wrong spot till it's too late to move somewhere else. On the initial Biden Special my friends and I looked at Audi's at a trackside dealership every time the Secret Service chopper would go overhead. Then when the train came we took our cameras out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Theres more people between Denver and SLC on the Zephyr Route than there is on the UP Transcon through Wyoming!


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## Nick Farr (Jan 10, 2021)

Seaboard92 said:


> I probably wouldn't route a campaign special on the CZ between Denver and Salt Lake City a very low population, and a very slow route. I would likely route it via the UP Transcon across Wyoming and do some campaign events in those areas instead.



I absolutely would route that campaign special, not for the people along the route but for the US to *see that LD rail exists and it is beautiful*.

We absolutely need pictures of the President looking out the window of their train car, seeing how beautiful a journey it is!

Also, the stops along that route are actually perfect for larger gatherings, given how many resort towns and available sidings there are. Biden could start with a large gathering at Denver Union Station, have an amazing sendoff--then wind up, have a small gathering in Winter Park and move on to Grand Junction talking about the need to improve our national rail infrastructure, etc. It could be a weekend-long event highlighting one of the most scenic parts of the LD system.


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 10, 2021)

Nick Farr said:


> I absolutely would route that campaign special, not for the people along the route but for the US to *see that LD rail exists and it is beautiful*.
> 
> We absolutely need pictures of the President looking out the window of their train car, seeing how beautiful a journey it is!
> 
> Also, the stops along that route are actually perfect for larger gatherings, given how many resort towns and available sidings there are. Biden could start with a large gathering at Denver Union Station, have an amazing sendoff--then wind up, have a small gathering in Winter Park and move on to Grand Junction talking about the need to improve our national rail infrastructure, etc. It could be a weekend-long event highlighting one of the most scenic parts of the LD system.


You forgot Glenwood Springs which is perfect for photo ops and drawing a crowd from the surrounding Mountains!


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## Dakota 400 (Jan 10, 2021)

Night Ranger said:


> Nick Farr, I hope you are correct. I was a senior in high school on November 22, 1963, at 1:30 that afternoon. I never want to feel that way again.



I was a Junior in college that afternoon studying for a Comparative Anatomy practical exam. I never want to experience a repeat of the feelings and thoughts that I had that day. America changed on that day. It wasn't for the better, either.


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## Cho Cho Charlie (Jan 14, 2021)

Mailliw said:


> It's worth noting the only world leaders to travel by private train today are Queen Elizabeth II and Kim Jong-un. For Her Majesty it's a convenient way to take lodging with her to fit more engagements in. Security is less of a concern in the UK and she actually takes regular passenger trains sometimes (first class of course). Of course in North Korea the Leader can do as he pleases and the costs or public inconvenience of his security are irrelevant.



I was reading, a few months ago, that the Royal Train is by far the most expensive way for the Queen to travel.

As to lodging, is there really anywhere within the UK she can go, that there isn't one of her 23 castles near by?


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## WWW (Jan 17, 2021)

One thing for sure - Air Force ONE will not be getting a weekend workout with golf vacations.
The Biden homestead in Delaware will be easily accessible by Marine ONE and could even entertain Amtrak ONE -
A armored Budd Car with the Marine ONE escort on a course of an un-announced schedule for security reasons.

Won't happen for the first 100 days - things are going to be busy undoing road blocks and obstacles
clearing the tracks for an Acela administration of the virus vaccines. 
Full speed (high ball it) ahead to save lives - let no one be without a timely vaccination !
God save the people and the United States of America - Amen !


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## neroden (May 1, 2021)

Several people have claimed that it would be more difficult to make a secure trip by train because you can reroute cars but it's hard to reroute trains.

Truman and FDR didn't have any problems rerouting trains. The problem is that we ripped out too much of our railroad infrastructure. There are still two totally separate routes from DC to Philadelphia, though, so with proper management and planning you can reroute a train on that route.


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## 20th Century Rider (May 1, 2021)

The only leader of a nation that I'm aware of who uses rail travel to get around on a regular basis is Kim Jong Un of North Korea.
In England a special train has been maintained in the recent past for the use of the Royal Family. There were also 'Royal Trains' for Tito in Yugoslavia, and a somewhat similar train in Australia.

Recently there was a funeral train for the late President George HW Bush.

Does anyone know of other examples of heads of state that use rail to get around?

The biggest obstacles to such a train in the USA is the immense need for security, and the lack of rail infrastructure [other than the NEC] to transport our leader.


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## Mailliw (May 1, 2021)

I think the Dutch Royal Family uses trains for official travel, but they just charter first class coaches instead of having a dedicated train.


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## Dakota 400 (May 1, 2021)

A newspaper article about Amtrak's 50th Anniversary and President Biden's attendance at the ceremony yesterday stated that even as Vice-President, he continued to ride Amtrak. I was surprised to learn that. If security is now such an issue as to why the President cannot take Amtrak from/to Washington and Wilmington, why was he able to do so not that long ago?


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## PaTrainFan (May 1, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> A newspaper article about Amtrak's 50th Anniversary and President Biden's attendance at the ceremony yesterday stated that even as Vice-President, he continued to ride Amtrak. I was surprised to learn that. If security is now such an issue as to why the President cannot take Amtrak from/to Washington and Wilmington, why was he able to do so not that long ago?



Jan. 6, 2021


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## Dakota 400 (May 1, 2021)

PaTrainFan said:


> Jan. 6, 2021



I understand the significance of that date regarding Biden's Inauguration in relation to the date of his Inauguration. 

Can't "we" move beyond that horrible event? Many of the "players" in that insurrection are under indictment or in jail. Are the others who may have been "involved and caught up in that moment of time": have they not learned a lesson? 
9/11 certainly changed our travel experiences just as Covid-19 has done. 

The events of January 6, 2021 were directed at one specific event relating to one specific individual (along with the Vice-President Elect). 

For the President of the United States to not be able to choose whatever method of transportation that he/she would prefer to have "from here to wherever" is another step backwards from the freedom that so many gave their lives to try to preserve.


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## Trogdor (May 2, 2021)

Seriously. There are lots of things the President of the United States cannot do for practical security reasons. It has nothing to do with “freedom” and invoking the lives of past war veterans.

And if you think January 6 was just about a handful of folks that have now been arrested, I honestly don’t know what to say without going way too off topic.


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## jis (May 2, 2021)

Trogdor said:


> And if you think January 6 was just about a handful of folks that have now been arrested, I honestly don’t know what to say without going way too off topic.


There are various delusions and wishful thinking detached from reality all across the board, not just at one end of the political spectrum. It is just that they are often very different delusions and not necessarily of the same importance in the sense of how many they affect, and specially how many that are uninvolved they affect.


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## Ryan (May 2, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> Many of the "players" in that insurrection are under indictment or in jail.


And many of those that stoked those flames have seen zero legal repercussions whatsoever and continue to spread forth lies and hatred that sadly make a repeat of something as awful nearly a forgone conclusion.

No, no. We're just not going to forget it and move on.


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## Dakota 400 (May 2, 2021)

Trogdor said:


> Seriously. There are lots of things the President of the United States cannot do for practical security reasons. It has nothing to do with “freedom” and invoking the lives of past war veterans.
> 
> And if you think January 6 was just about a handful of folks that have now been arrested, I honestly don’t know what to say without going way too off topic.





Ryan said:


> And many of those that stoked those flames have seen zero legal repercussions whatsoever and continue to spread forth lies and hatred that sadly make a repeat of something as awful nearly a forgone conclusion.
> 
> No, no. We're just not going to forget it and move on.






jis said:


> There are various delusions and wishful thinking detached from reality all across the board, not just at one end of the political spectrum. It is just that they are often very different delusions and not necessarily of the same importance in the sense of how many they affect, and specially how many that are uninvolved they affect.



My post #53 on this thread has been misconstrued. 

I wrote a reply, but have chosen to erase my comment. It was not appropriate for this section of the Forum in which I posted #53.


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## Asher (May 2, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> I understand the significance of that date regarding Biden's Inauguration in relation to the date of his Inauguration.
> 
> Can't "we" move beyond that horrible event? Many of the "players" in that insurrection are under indictment or in jail. Are the others who may have been "involved and caught up in that moment of time": have they not learned a lesson?
> 9/11 certainly changed our travel experiences just as Covid-19 has done.
> ...



I also think that may be taking a way too mild look at 1/6/21


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## Ryan (May 2, 2021)

Dakota 400 said:


> My post #53 on this thread has been misconstrued.


By all means, explain to us how your comments were misconstrued and demonstrate that you understand the true threat to be more than the handful of people arrested and charged for the events of January 6th.


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