# Southwest Chief Derailed in KS 03/14 early AM



## Dan O (Mar 14, 2016)

Just heard from a relative that the SWC derailed in KS--going east. He was in a sleeper and his car is fine but apparently another car/several cars may be on their sides. Anyone have any news?


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## Acela150 (Mar 14, 2016)

Nothing in the headlines yet.


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## Acela150 (Mar 14, 2016)

Just found an article. And only one. Not much information at this time of any. Just that a 911 call came in.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 14, 2016)

It appears to be 4(12)

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Amtrak-derailment-in-Gray-County-371944922.html



> CIMARRON, Kan. - Several Amtrak rail cars reportedly have derailed in Gray County, three miles outside Cimarron. There's no immediate word on injuries.


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## Dan O (Mar 14, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> It appears to be 4(12)
> 
> http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Amtrak-derailment-in-Gray-County-371944922.html
> 
> ...


Thanks. I see it says 5 cars on their side.

"UPDATE: Highway Patrol reports 5 ‪#‎Amtrak‬cars are on their side, 3 miles west of‪#‎Cimarron‬. Still no word about injuries."


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 14, 2016)

I looked at my radar a second ago. It doesn't appear to be storm related.


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## Acela150 (Mar 14, 2016)

All I can say is.. Here comes ridership drops..


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## chakk (Mar 14, 2016)

I rode #4 from Galesburg to Chicago on 03/11. Very full train, with 4 coaches. The day before, I rode commuter trains on the South Shore Line between Chicago and Michigan City, IN. Yesterday, one of THEIR trains derailed, closing the line for 24 hours.

I now know I shouldn't have made that "jinx" comment about the Sports Illustrated cover!


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## Acela150 (Mar 14, 2016)

That south shore train picked a switch and was occupied by only a T&E crew.


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## Reno89502 (Mar 14, 2016)

Getting word that the Southwest Chief #4 has derailed west of Newton, KS. Hope that injuries are minimal.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2016)

Word from Amtrak:

http://blog.amtrak.com/2016/03/update-on-southwest-chief-train-4/

Says 20 people transported to hospital, and earlier enters says no life threatening injuries. Hope that's true.


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## Ryan (Mar 14, 2016)

Picture here:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-bound-amtrak-train-derails-in-kansas-11-injured/ar-AAgKd2L

A few cars on their side.


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## ATSFNewton (Mar 14, 2016)

One passenger in surgery. A couple injured are critical according to news reports. 3 is sitting in Newton and will be diverted south through Belen.


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## PerRock (Mar 14, 2016)

AP report on the derailment: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRAIN_DERAILMENT_KANSAS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

peter


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## HenryK (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm due out on No. 3 from Chicago Tuesday with my service dog. I've seen one report that the Chief will be rerouted from Newton, Kansas, to Albuquerque. This may require some negotiation with the conductors about a site between Newton and Albuquerque where the dog can get some fresh air, so to speak.


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## tim49424 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bad night/day for trains. Freight cars on the ground in Howell, Michigan.

http://woodtv.com/2016/03/14/broken-track-blamed-for-se-mi-freight-train-derailment/


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## PerRock (Mar 14, 2016)

tim49424 said:


> Bad night/day for trains. Freight cars on the ground in Howell, Michigan.
> 
> http://woodtv.com/2016/03/14/broken-track-blamed-for-se-mi-freight-train-derailment/


Howell derailment happened early Sunday morning.


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## tim49424 (Mar 14, 2016)

PerRock said:


> tim49424 said:
> 
> 
> > Bad night/day for trains. Freight cars on the ground in Howell, Michigan.
> ...


I got my post backwards....meant it to read day/night. I blame that on today being Monday. LOL


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## IowaGirl (Mar 14, 2016)

Here is some info with video.

http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/amtrak-with-142-people-on-board-derails-near-dodge-city/38500994


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 14, 2016)

HenryK said:


> I'm due out on No. 3 from Chicago Tuesday with my service dog. I've seen one report that the Chief will be rerouted from Newton, Kansas, to Albuquerque. This may require some negotiation with the conductors about a site between Newton and Albuquerque where the dog can get some fresh air, so to speak.


The last report I saw, which could be old by now, was that the 13th & 14th #3's would detour. That doesn't mean the 15th won't detour, but it may be too soon to know.


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

We were on 4(8), so this would not have been our trainset.

Coaches are on their sides, lounge is listing. Other reports mention two other cars derailed but upright, so I would presume those were the diner and 0430 sleeper.


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## jfandre (Mar 14, 2016)

We rode coach both ways on that train over New Years. Some thing about the constant thunk thunk made me wonder many times if a derailment was imminent. I guess I got spoiled riding trains in Germany as a child.


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## west point (Mar 14, 2016)

Is this part of the BNSF track work ?


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

There was a lot of work going on when we were through there last week, so could be a factor. OTOH, this type of derailment where it's trailing cars rather than the head end favors wheel issues. I hope not, because that rains all sorts of misery on Amtrak and equipment condition.


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## The Chief (Mar 14, 2016)

7:45 a.m.

An Amtrak passenger recalls feeling "shaking" before her car and several others overturned in southwest Kansas.

Twenty-one-year-old Kelsey Wilson says she was traveling on the train to return to Truman State University in Kirksville, Missouri, when she was awoken early Monday. Wilson, of Pueblo, Colorado, says she hit her head as the car became disconnected and overturned about 20 miles west of Dodge City.

She says she escaped through the top of the flipped car and then slid down the side. She said she then "passed out" and was among at least 29 people taken to hospitals for treatment. She was released with a neck brace.

http://www.wbrc.com/story/31460403/the-latest-passenger-recalls-shaking-before-derailment?utm_campaign=Contact+SNS+For+More+Referrer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2016)

An NTSB team is on their way to Kansas. That means that nothing will be done to clear the wreckage until the team arrives, investigates and release the site for repair. We're probably looking at the Kansas line being closed for multiple days. The good news (for opening the line) is that BNSF can mobilize manpower, equipment and materials at the site and will be ready to go once the NTSB gives them the green light.


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## Jennifer (Mar 14, 2016)

So.. I am traveling on the SWC on Wednesday, 16th Chicago to ABQ. And now this derailment. I see on the Amtrak site that the train will be detoured from Newton to ABQ and I've read the thread on the members forum. My question is: will this make the journey many hours longer? A few hours? And what about equipment? Does amtrak have other carriages they can use? We have a sleeper booked.

Many thanks in advance.


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## CoachSlumber (Mar 14, 2016)

HenryK said:


> I'm due out on No. 3 from Chicago Tuesday with my service dog. I've seen one report that the Chief will be rerouted from Newton, Kansas, to Albuquerque. This may require some negotiation with the conductors about a site between Newton and Albuquerque where the dog can get some fresh air, so to speak.


A friend scheduled to go out of Chicago today says they are bustituting that segment westbound. Of course she is highly disappointed.


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## Chas (Mar 14, 2016)

From Gray County, Kansas, Emergency Management:

Update on Southwest Chief Train 4~From Amtrak

March 14, 2016 5:49 a.m.

Just after midnight CT, Amtrak Southwest Chief Train 4, operating from Los Angeles to Chicago, derailed several coaches approximately 20 miles west of Dodge City, Kan., on track owned and maintained by BNSF.

There were approximately 128 passengers and 14 crew members on board the train that had two locomotives and nine cars.

Local emergency responders provided on-site response, with approximately 29 passengers transported to hospitals in Dodge City and Garden City. All other passengers were transported to the 4-H Recreation Center in Cimarron, Kan., and will be provided alternate transportation to their final destination. The Red Cross and other relief agencies are on-site providing assistance to those passengers.

Persons with questions about their friends and family aboard this train have a special number to call for information: 800-523-
9101.

Amtrak is working with BNSF to investigate the cause of the incident.

Amtrak Southwest Chief Train 3, operating from Chicago to Los Angeles will detour from Newton, Kan., to Albuquerque, N.M., for trains originating March 13 and 14. Alternate transportation is being arranged.


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## cirdan (Mar 14, 2016)

Did this happen on the section that BNSF was trying to abandon not long ago?

Maybe that would explain poor track condition?


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## Eric S (Mar 14, 2016)

This would be on the section that BNSF has not been trying to abandon but has downgraded in recent years, although there is funding in place and work has supposedly begun to bring the track back to higher standards. (At least I don't recall that the KS section was in jeopardy of abandonment, I thought that was in CO-NM instead.)


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## Paul CHI (Mar 14, 2016)

Haven't ridden that area for a while, but on my last trip through there I was amazed how rough the track was.


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## George K (Mar 14, 2016)

Engineer saw "a bend" in the rail.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-amtrak-train-derails-southwest-kansas-37626088


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 14, 2016)

> heard what he called "a lot of clacking for about 20 minutes"


Might not that have been the disjointed rail. Clickty-clack, clickity-clack.


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## Cina (Mar 14, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> > heard what he called "a lot of clacking for about 20 minutes"
> 
> 
> Might not that have been the disjointed rail. Clickty-clack, clickity-clack.


That's what I'm thinkin'. If the track is really that bad through that stretch, it could be people just feeling that before the derailment happened.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 14, 2016)

Sounds like a simple track issue. Cross ties gave out. Train fell between and tip over.


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

More on the "significant bend in the rail"...emergency brakes hit before derailment.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/14/injuries-reported-after-amtrak-train-derails-in-kansas.html?intcmp=hplnws


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2016)

Edited topic title to reflect multiple published reports that the derailment occurred just after midnight on March 14.


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## A Voice (Mar 14, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> More on the "significant bend in the rail"...emergency brakes hit before derailment.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/14/injuries-reported-after-amtrak-train-derails-in-kansas.html?intcmp=hplnws


A rather poorly written article, but thanks for the link. Does any news agency employ professional journalists anymore?


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

Amtrak heading to Amarillo and I just left town for the week.

I am on the road right now so I may have missed it, but are there any pics of the whole train? I have only seen the one showing what looks like the last two cars.


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## Thirdrail7 (Mar 14, 2016)

Thank goodness no one was killed. Luck is a big part of this.


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

Also: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-amtrak-derailment-20160314-story.html

This is the same AP article as the Fox piece, so go figure.


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

Could the application of the emergency brake have caused the derailment if the brake malfunctioned?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 14, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> Could the application of the emergency brake have caused the derailment if the brake malfunctioned?


I would imagine if they had not applied the brakes, things would have been a lot worse when they hit the bad rail at speed.


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > Could the application of the emergency brake have caused the derailment if the brake malfunctioned?
> ...


What if the engineer didn't see what he says he saw...in other words, he may have thought there was a bent rail, but perhaps there wasn't. Could the application of the emergency brake have caused a problem given that the rail condition was fine?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> AmtrakBlue said:
> 
> 
> > Bierboy said:
> ...


the emergency brake is a tool of last resort, and is only applied when all other options have been exhausted.


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > AmtrakBlue said:
> ...


All due respect, that doesn't answer my question. Could it cause a derailment?


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## keelhauled (Mar 14, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> All due respect, that doesn't answer my question. Could it cause a derailment?


I suppose anything is possible, which makes it hard to say definitively that it couldn't be the cause, but if you use an emergency brake under normal conditions and your train crashes there has to be more to it than just applying the brake. Trains going into emergency braking is fairly common, and it doesn't generally end with a derailment.


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## chakk (Mar 14, 2016)

Extremely unlikely that emergency brake application on a passenger train would cause a derailment. I experienced such an application on the CZ when traveling 70 mph near Fruita, Colorado.

Only results were lots of brake shoe burning smell -- and the engineer needed a clean pair of underwear. We stayed on the rails, and missed hitting the 18-wheeler by THAT much.


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm not an engineer so I can't comment on to what can and cannot happen. But I have heard of cases one in Maryland where I believe it was the case. And I'm going to say track geometry might have something to do with it.


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

keelhauled said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > All due respect, that doesn't answer my question. Could it cause a derailment?
> ...


Thank you...not being involved in the industry, I was just wondering if any of you who work for a RR would know.


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## Agent (Mar 14, 2016)

KWCH is reporting that equipment is on site to move the derailed cars.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 14, 2016)

Jennifer said:


> So.. I am traveling on the SWC on Wednesday, 16th Chicago to ABQ. And now this derailment. I see on the Amtrak site that the train will be detoured from Newton to ABQ and I've read the thread on the members forum. My question is: will this make the journey many hours longer? A few hours? And what about equipment? Does amtrak have other carriages they can use? We have a sleeper booked.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


Yes it may be longer, how much is anyone guess. You may or may not get to experience the rare mileage. Wednesday is not today, and this derailment may not impact you at all. There is enough equipment in Chicago to cover the derailment.

Have a great trip. Relax and enjoy yourself.


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## Agent (Mar 14, 2016)

Interesting update at 1:30 PM on ABC's website: Vehicle Accident May Have Preceded Derailment.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)




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## neroden (Mar 14, 2016)

Jennifer said:


> So.. I am traveling on the SWC on Wednesday, 16th Chicago to ABQ. And now this derailment. I see on the Amtrak site that the train will be detoured from Newton to ABQ and I've read the thread on the members forum. My question is: will this make the journey many hours longer? A few hours?


The detour route is slightly faster. This is one reason some of us think the SWC should have moved to it permanently.



> And what about equipment? Does amtrak have other carriages they can use?


That, I don't know. I hope so.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

Every pic I have seen shows two cars on their side and the lounge leaning. Have not seen any evidence of 5 cars on their side as I have seen reported on news sites. Did I miss something?


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## tommylicious (Mar 14, 2016)

Yes very:



Agent said:


> Interesting update at 1:30 PM on ABC's website: Vehicle Accident May Have Preceded Derailment.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 14, 2016)

I count four coaches on their sides, the lounge leaning over, and I have heard that the diner and the trailing sleeper are on the ground.


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## neroden (Mar 14, 2016)

I look forward to reports of how fast the SWC does on the detour route via Amarillo.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> I count four coaches on their sides, the lounge leaning over, and I have heard that the diner and the trailing sleeper are on the ground.


Four coaches on the SWC would be unusual. What pic did you see with that?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 14, 2016)

It's been running with four for the spring break crowds, at the last report I had. Four has also been normal on the chief and starlight in the past. And the photo on the first report I saw is the one I am referring to.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2016)

The Kansas City Star has a photo series. #1 and #3 show the condition of the consist pretty well.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

CCC1007 said:


> It's been running with four for the spring break crowds, at the last report I had. Four has also been normal on the chief and starlight in the past. And the photo on the first report I saw is the one I am referring to.


Four is what they usually have in the summer. Did not know about the spring break thing.


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

printman2000 said:


> Four coaches on the SWC would be unusual. What pic did you see with that?


Nearly all the "headline" pictures show the four coaches on their sides, after the lounge. There were four coaches on our train - 4(8) - last week.

Latest news is discovery of evidence that there may have been an unreported motor vehicle collision with the rail.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> The Kansas City Star has a photo series. #1 and #3 show the condition of the consist pretty well.


Looks like three coaches to me. I see why people would think 4 but it looks like three to me.


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## Paul CHI (Mar 14, 2016)

A Voice said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > More on the "significant bend in the rail"...emergency brakes hit before derailment.
> ...


To pay journalists, you have to have subscriber revenue. Nobody wants to pay for news in the Internet age, so ya get what ya pay for.


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## George K (Mar 14, 2016)

A Voice said:


> Bierboy said:
> 
> 
> > More on the "significant bend in the rail"...emergency brakes hit before derailment.
> ...





> The train appeared to have been traveling at about 75 miles when the engineer pulled the emergency _*break*_.


You got a problem with that?


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2016)

printman2000 said:


> PRR 60 said:
> 
> 
> > The Kansas City Star has a photo series. #1 and #3 show the condition of the consist pretty well.
> ...


I count eight cut-outs for trucks or four cars.


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## neroden (Mar 14, 2016)

Paul CHI said:


> To pay journalists, you have to have subscriber revenue. Nobody wants to pay for news in the Internet age, so ya get what ya pay for.


Nobody has ***ever*** paid for journalists out of subscriber revenue. I happen to know something about the history of newspapers (and radio and TV).
Ad-supported has been the primary business model, like, *forever*. Only specialty publications ever made any money off subscribers.

The secondary business model has been patronage by a patron usually with a political agenda. This works too.

What I'm saying is, the Internet hasn't actually changed anything in this regard.


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## PRR 60 (Mar 14, 2016)

Go to slide 4 in this set.


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## HenryK (Mar 14, 2016)

No. 3 (14) status is missing as of 3:45 pm CST. Train was scheduled to depart Chicago at 3. Is it going, or is there a bustitution, or is it canceled? Anyone know?


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

PRR 60 said:


> Go to slide 4 in this set.


Yup. You're right. Four.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

HenryK said:


> No. 3 (14) status is missing as of 3:45 pm CST. Train was scheduled to depart Chicago at 3. Is it going, or is there a bustitution, or is it canceled? Anyone know?


Showing already departed on the map.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 14, 2016)

HenryK said:


> No. 3 (14) status is missing as of 3:45 pm CST. Train was scheduled to depart Chicago at 3. Is it going, or is there a bustitution, or is it canceled? Anyone know?


When trains have service disruption the status is usually not available.


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## HenryK (Mar 14, 2016)

Weird. No status, but Track-a-Train shows it on time at Naperville.

(Later. Thanks, AmtrakBlue..)


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## Bierboy (Mar 14, 2016)

Reports now that possible vehicle accident damaged the rails.

http://bigstory.ap.org/urnublicid:ap.org:6e5a5ae27fc34370b1d178c29a1bf32e


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## The Chief (Mar 14, 2016)

Agent said:


> Interesting update at 1:30 PM on ABC's website: Vehicle Accident May Have Preceded Derailment.


When I was a boy my father investigated *Santa Fe* derailment in Kansas.

He said *ATSF* concluded misaligned track at crossing caused by earlier crossing of a road grader: either the mid-blade, or rear ripper shanks or scarifier teeth were too low and snagged rail.

No fatalaties.

Video of *Vermonte*r going into emergency.


Engineer usually bails off engine's independent brakes and reduces throttle while placing brake valve in emergency position.

Let's hope Transcon *SWC* detour not a portent of things to come. Remember when *Sunset* _temporarily_ halted service between Florida and New Orleans?


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 14, 2016)

The Chief said:


> Agent said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting update at 1:30 PM on ABC's website: Vehicle Accident May Have Preceded Derailment.
> ...


The ?mom? and kids looked like they had no clue as to why the train came to a stop. I was hoping to see the conductor confront them...or better have the cops come.


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## A Voice (Mar 14, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> The Chief said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting update at 1:30 PM on ABC's website: Vehicle Accident May Have Preceded Derailment.
> ...



Indeed, I hope those two young ladies are proud of themselves...and live long enough to develop some common sense.


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## Seaboard92 (Mar 14, 2016)

It's really sense now. As common sense isn't common


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## The Chief (Mar 14, 2016)

AP on-camera interviews w/pax

https://youtu.be/iRG1PVF8kMw

One guy said he was sitting on toilet,,,shaving.


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## IndyRacingNut (Mar 14, 2016)

Taking the #4 to CHI on April 12th. Hearing this today makes me a little nervous....Should I expect that everything will be back up and running by then?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 14, 2016)

The trains should be back to normal by the end of the week at the very latest.


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## printman2000 (Mar 14, 2016)

And even if it was not, which it will be, the reroute seems to be running smoothly.


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## C855B (Mar 14, 2016)

Last report I read was they were already picking things up, so apparently the NTSB gave them the OK to clear the site. My concern now would be the cars out of service for repairs and inspections. They don't have a lot of spares lying around.


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## NTL1991 (Mar 14, 2016)

Engines 153 and 152, along with Baggage 61023 and Trans/Dorm 39023 did not derail. Sleepers 32109 and 32071, Diner 38044, Lounge 33020 and Coaches 34042, 31013, 34056 and 34046 derailed.


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## IndyRacingNut (Mar 15, 2016)

NTL1991 said:


> Engines 153 and 152, along with Baggage 61023 and Trans/Dorm 39023 did not derail. Sleepers 32109 and 32071, Diner 38044, Lounge 33020 and Coaches 34042, 31013, 34056 and 34046 derailed.


Basically all the pax cars derailed then, yeah? :unsure:


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## CCC1007 (Mar 15, 2016)

Pretty much... And the coaches overturned...


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## chakk (Mar 15, 2016)

4 coaches when I rode #4 on Friday. Not unusual during Spring Break weeks. All 4 were full on Friday. The coaches and the lounge are off the rails and tilted. The diner and one sleeper are off the rails but upright. The dorm-sleeper, baggage car and the two engines appear to be on the rails


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## Tennessee Traveler (Mar 15, 2016)

If they derailed both the sleepers and dining car did remain standing upright and were right behind the engines, baggage car, and transition sleeper which you stated did not derail. I cannot verify but all photos and news reports I heard today said only the sightseer lounge and four coach cars derailed and SSL was leaning while the coaches were all on their sides.


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## jenniferpa (Mar 15, 2016)

So can I just confirm? Even if there is detour it will be by rail? And there will be sleeper cars? I've been somewhat alarmed by comments mentioning buses. I didn't pay over $2K round trip to be put on a bus... I suppose if that's my only option I will take it as I absolutely, positively have to be in ABQ by lunch time Friday as my only daughter is getting married then. But I won't be happy.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 15, 2016)

The detour rejoins the normal route about 20-30 miles west of Albuquerque, so a bus might be necessary even though the train will detour intact, sleepers, food service cars and coaches all as normal. The detour begins within about 90 miles of Kansas City, meaning it is a rather long detour, but delays should be minimal, with the detour route having very little single track, mostly double track.


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## RSG (Mar 15, 2016)

neroden said:


> Paul CHI said:
> 
> 
> > To pay journalists, you have to have subscriber revenue. Nobody wants to pay for news in the Internet age, so ya get what ya pay for.
> ...


Agreed. Journalism pay has little to do with the quality, other than hiring inexperienced staffers for less money. But it's more than that. There is little attention to detail, particularly when it comes to specialized issues such as transportation.( I wonder how many who reported on this story didn't make the distinction between the train, the Southwest Chief, and the location where it derailed, ie, southwest Kansas.) The prevailing ethic seems to align with the old phrase "close enough for government work". Also, there's a greater reliance on what used to be called "rip-and-read"---pulling copy from one source and repurposing it as your own content (authorized, of course; but still with any original inaccuracies).


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## caravanman (Mar 15, 2016)

There is little evidence of "reading before reporting" on AU... given the large number of folk who post stuff as "hot news" that shows up in this very SAME thread earlier... (or did someone already make that point..?) 

Ed.


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## NW cannonball (Mar 15, 2016)

Bierboy said:


> keelhauled said:
> 
> 
> > Bierboy said:
> ...


I'm not connected in any way with the rail industry.

In the last 5 years I've experienced two "unrequested" emergency brake applications on Amtrak, once on the EB near MariasPass, once on the SW Chief westbound in Colorado.

Neither was initiated by the engineer, both were rather calm, but quick, stops. If I can believe the rumours, both happened because obstructions on the tracks popped the train's brake line, which, if it happens, automatically applies the emergency brake.

No sparks, no panic, not much brake smell, nobody even fell down in the aisle. Conductor had to walk the train and re-certify the brake system -- maybe 15 minutes.

BUT - when the engineer pops the "big-hole" because of (trees, SUV's, rocks, broken track) on the tracks - totally different, and very unlikely, but possible that hitting the e-brake or "big-hole" -- In such rare situations I'll never second-guess - but it's on the hogger -- like on any driver -- "lock your brakes, there's gonna be consequences"


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 15, 2016)

Tennessee Traveler said:


> If they derailed both the sleepers and dining car did remain standing upright and were right behind the engines, baggage car, and transition sleeper which you stated did not derail. I cannot verify but all photos and news reports I heard today said only the sightseer lounge and four coach cars derailed and SSL was leaning while the coaches were all on their sides.


I would not trust the news. The people who did not report the diner & sleepers having derailed probably were not aware that at least one wheel on each of those cars was off the rail. I imagine most people only think of derailment as being tipped over or on its side. Plus "on the ground" would make them think the on their side, not a wheel on the ground.


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## HenryK (Mar 15, 2016)

This morning Amtrak Status for 3 (15) did not show a service disruption, so I am hoping today's Chief will be back on the Raton Pass route. If not, I will have to engage in some negotiation with the conductors about where to pee a service dog between Newton and Albuquerque.


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## keelhauled (Mar 15, 2016)

HenryK said:


> This morning Amtrak Status for 3 (15) did not show a service disruption, so I am hoping today's Chief will be back on the Raton Pass route. If not, I will have to engage in some negotiation with the conductors about where to pee a service dog between Newton and Albuquerque.


The detour route seems to take about 16 hours, so there will probably be at least one stop for engineers to change.


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## printman2000 (Mar 15, 2016)

jenniferpa said:


> So can I just confirm? Even if there is detour it will be by rail? And there will be sleeper cars? I've been somewhat alarmed by comments mentioning buses. I didn't pay over $2K round trip to be put on a bus... I suppose if that's my only option I will take it as I absolutely, positively have to be in ABQ by lunch time Friday as my only daughter is getting married then. But I won't be happy.


Yes. Every time they have done this reroute they have served Albuquerque without issue. They simply use the wye south of the station to turn the train around.


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## printman2000 (Mar 15, 2016)

HenryK said:


> This morning Amtrak Status for 3 (15) did not show a service disruption, so I am hoping today's Chief will be back on the Raton Pass route. If not, I will have to engage in some negotiation with the conductors about where to pee a service dog between Newton and Albuquerque.


The only stop on the detour is usually just Amarillo for a crew change. I have personally witnessed them allowing a service dog off the train at that stop. No one else was allowed off. They usually stop at the BNSF depot.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 15, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Tennessee Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > If they derailed both the sleepers and dining car did remain standing upright and were right behind the engines, baggage car, and transition sleeper which you stated did not derail. I cannot verify but all photos and news reports I heard today said only the sightseer lounge and four coach cars derailed and SSL was leaning while the coaches were all on their sides.
> ...


Just read a first hand account on FB (bolding by me)



> I was on board. It occurred at 1204am just a mile from Cimarron, KS. I was in one of the *3 forward sleepers which left the rails* but did not overturn. The pictures you see are of the sightseer lounge and 3 trailing coaches which did overturn.


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## KmH (Mar 15, 2016)

jenniferpa said:


> I absolutely, positively have to be in ABQ by lunch time Friday as my only daughter is getting married then.


Hopefully your reservation is for a Southwest Chief scheduled to be in Albuquerque on a day before that Friday since the SWC is scheduled to arrive at 3:55 pm.


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## chertling (Mar 15, 2016)

It looks like the detour may be short lived... #4 is sitting in ABQ now, but shows as "On Time" for Lamy and all stations down the line







EDIT(s) - Fixed spelling, corrected train number.


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## JNaismith (Mar 15, 2016)

Local reporting on accident

http://www.gctelegram.com/news/local/feds-begin-probe-into-amtrak-derailment/article_56c362d0-7e44-56a7-91ba-eacdd2179ac2.html


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## trainfan (Mar 15, 2016)

on detour between Amarillo and Abq right now, very smooth ride, they say Abq on time.

Trinfan


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## CCC1007 (Mar 15, 2016)

Have a safe trip, enjoy the fast running.


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## chertling (Mar 15, 2016)

Confirmed: Amtrak's "Track A Train" map shows 4(14) northeast of ABQ on the official route, as opposed to the detour route. They must have made quick work cleaning up the accident site.


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## dlagrua (Mar 15, 2016)

According to the report the engineer noticed a "significant bend" in the tracks and applied the emergency brakes before derailing. On the other hand BNSF says that the tracks are inspected every two weeks. Could it be that heavy equipment bent the rails? A "significant" noticeable bend doesn't happen by itself and livestock couldn't do it. Makes me wonder.


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## CCC1007 (Mar 15, 2016)

When did the last train pass prior to the derailment?


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## A Voice (Mar 15, 2016)

dlagrua said:


> According to the report the engineer noticed a "significant bend" in the tracks and applied the emergency brakes before derailing. On the other hand BNSF says that the tracks are inspected every two weeks. Could it be that heavy equipment bent the rails? A "significant" noticeable bend doesn't happen by itself and livestock couldn't do it. Makes me wonder.


Has the report of a motor vehicle accident already been discredited?


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## offroad437 (Mar 15, 2016)

Cnn is reporting the NTSB has found a feed truck that stuck the rail and damaged it. They have the truck in their possession.


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## George K (Mar 15, 2016)

offroad437 said:


> Cnn is reporting the NTSB has found a feed truck that stuck the rail and damaged it. They have the truck in their possession.


I assume that was *not* at a crossing, right?


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## IndyRacingNut (Mar 15, 2016)

George K said:


> offroad437 said:
> 
> 
> > Cnn is reporting the NTSB has found a feed truck that stuck the rail and damaged it. They have the truck in their possession.
> ...


Interesting that they haven't given us that "little" detail yet....


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## offroad437 (Mar 15, 2016)

IndyRacingNut said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> > offroad437 said:
> ...


From NTSB Twitter account


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## offroad437 (Mar 15, 2016)

One more


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Mar 15, 2016)

They seem certain that this was the cause.


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## George K (Mar 15, 2016)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> They seem certain that this was the cause.


I'm surprised, given how cautious NTSB usually is, that they say "This is the vehicle that damaged the tracks."


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## jfandre (Mar 15, 2016)

So, I seriously doubt this feed truck owner(s) have the $$ to pay for the damages, but I hope someone sees some jail time.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 15, 2016)

http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/amtrak-with-142-people-on-board-derails-near-dodge-city/38500994


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## greatcats (Mar 16, 2016)

Train 3 tonight via Amarillo arrived Flagstaff 2 hours late. Only two coaches.


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## afigg (Mar 16, 2016)

_Mod note: removed content related to a deleted prior post that involved a non-Amtrak accident form January, 2015._

As for the damaged tracks in the SWC derailment, when did the feed truck hit and damage the rails? Did the operator of the truck make any attempt to contact the railroad? If not, and there was plenty of time to do so, the driver and/or owner/operator of the feed truck could be both criminal and civil liability issues.


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## nshvlcat (Mar 16, 2016)

George K said:


> Just-Thinking-51 said:
> 
> 
> > They seem certain that this was the cause.
> ...


It does seem premature considering it takes close to a year for the NTSB to release their official accident report findings. Any update concerning those two passengers who were critically injured?


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## Bierboy (Mar 16, 2016)

nshvlcat said:


> George K said:
> 
> 
> > Just-Thinking-51 said:
> ...


Story I just read said the hospital refused to update their conditions today. Critical still as of late yesterday.


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## Chas (Mar 20, 2016)

NTSB says the feed truck (at an unauthorized crossing?) did the damage:



> WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — A truck used to deliver feed to a business where cattle are fattened hit a train track and shifted it at least a foot before an Amtrak train derailed in southwest Kansas and injured at least 32 people, an investigator said Tuesday.
> National Transportation Safety Board member Earl Weener did not say if the feed truck was the cause of the Amtrak Southwest Chief's accident the day earlier.
> But he said the impact of the truck from the Cimarron Crossing Feeders LLC shifted the train tracks 12 to 14 inches. The train was traveling 60 mph when the engineer applied the emergency brake, stopping 18 seconds later after traveling another 919 feet.


The full story can be found HERE.


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## SarahZ (Mar 20, 2016)

I love that they clearly illustrate how long it takes a train to stop. That's good info for people who think a train can stop as quickly as a car.


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## Agent (Mar 20, 2016)

There's a report here that the re-railed train set is moving to Kansas City today. It says the train will probably being staying in Kansas City tonight for a thorough inspection before heading east to Chicago tomorrow.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 20, 2016)

Here's a video of it rolling through Topeka, KS. This was posted on FB by the guy who put it up on YouTube.


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## greatcats (Mar 20, 2016)

It would seem that the damage to the equipment could not have been too severe if it was mobile enough to be moved intact at low speed. From the pictures I saw the rear cars were tipped on their right side, so any damage to the right side of those cars was not visible from the angle the video was taken. I hope the two critically injured passengers who were flown to the hospital Amarillo are doing well. Amtrak certainly seems to be a hard luck outfit, and this was an example where the blame does not lie with them. One report gave credit to the engineer for being vigilant and spotting the kinked rail. I believe there is only one engineer on that segment from La Junta to Dodge City.


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## A Voice (Mar 20, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> Here's a video of it rolling through Topeka, KS.



Damage certainly appears to be minor.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 20, 2016)

A Voice said:


> Here's a video of it rolling through Topeka, KS.


I don't think we're seeing the side that hit the ground. I'm guessing the boarded up areas are where the emergency personnel entered the cars and/or the windows where pax crawled out.


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## Agent (Mar 20, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> A Voice said:
> 
> 
> > Damage certainly appears to be minor.
> ...


The cars that fell hit the dirt on their left side, which is the side of the train shown in the video.


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## A Voice (Mar 20, 2016)

Aren't we seeing the tipped side, which was indeed to the left facing the engine (right facing the rear), or the same car order seen in the video? Emergency exits are through the windows; I wouldn't expect to see plywood covered damage on the side facing the sky.


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## AmtrakBlue (Mar 20, 2016)

OK. Memory failed me as to what I had seen in previous pictures.


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Wow. Goes to show how well these cars were made.


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Anyone have the car numbers from this train?

From the video, looks like all four coaches are Superliner I's.


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## greatcats (Mar 20, 2016)

Thank you for getting the position of the tipped cars correct. I thought it was the other side damaged, because so little was visible in the video except for the plywood.


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## FormerOBS (Mar 20, 2016)

printman2000 said:


> Wow. Goes to show how well these cars were made.


Right. After the Auto Train derailment in April of 2002, I got a chance to see some of the damaged cars and talk with some of the crew who were aboard at the time of the accident. Those carbodies are well built, and it takes an awful lot of force to cause serious structural damage.

Tom


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## CCC1007 (Mar 20, 2016)

FormerOBS said:


> printman2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Goes to show how well these cars were made.
> ...


So I take it you were either on the other set or at home the day of the derailment? What happened to the other set that day? I'm too young to have been paying much attention to the derailment, and only found out almost three months later via Trains magazine.


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## FormerOBS (Mar 20, 2016)

As I recall, Crew 5 was on the train at the time of the derailment, which was caused by a track anomaly something like the one under discussion (the cause of the anomaly was different). I had been on Crew 5 previously and knew all of the crew members, but I had moved onto another crew about a year or two before the accident. A lot of my friends were aboard. Some had a pretty hard time of it afterwards and never returned to work, but others handled it well. Some are still working on the Auto Train. Several Supervisory personnel were aboard, on their way to a meeting in Florida, and they were pressed into service to help. The engine crew, conductors, Chief, and onboard service crew 5 were widely praised for their performance.

Yes, I was home at the time. I don't remember specifics, but Amtrak did all it could to resume service as quickly as possible. I don't remember for sure what happened to the other set, but I think it was turned back at Richmond, returned to Lorton, and annulled. The problem was that the track needed to be rebuilt after the investigation, and the Sanford terminal was crowded with damaged equipment for a few days. Replacement Superliners were brought in from all around the country and service resumed after a couple days. We were used to seeing the same individual cars trip after trip, and we knew about their individual peculiarities. Some of the transferred cars from other trains were a bit unfamiliar to us. I think sleeper 32100 "New York" was never returned to service (could be wrong), and maybe another car too. As I recall, it took a little while before we had enough equipment to run full consists. Some of those damaged cars sat in Sanford for over a year. I think that was because all the legal issues hadn't been resolved.

Tom


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## jfandre (Mar 20, 2016)

A Voice said:


> Here's a video of it rolling through Topeka, KS.


So, what're the pieces of plywood covering?


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## CCC1007 (Mar 20, 2016)

jfandre said:


> Here's a video of it rolling through Topeka, KS.


I would guess missing windows.


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## KmH (Mar 20, 2016)

Compare with this photo:

http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picAMT34510.jpg

Or this graphic:

http://www.craigmashburn.com/images/amtrak-diagram-superliner-coach.jpg


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## printman2000 (Mar 20, 2016)

A lot of the wood I saw was covering mechanical room doors. I suspect they got damaged or ripped off.


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## KmH (Mar 21, 2016)

Yep.

The ends of the Superliner Coach cars is where the electrical/mechanical/HVAC systems are located.

In the linked to graphic those spaces are blank but the access doors are shown.


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## VentureForth (Mar 21, 2016)

SarahZ said:


> I love that they clearly illustrate how long it takes a train to stop. That's good info for people who think a train can stop as quickly as a car.


When I was on the Texas Eagle a decade ago and we went into Emergency, I obviously didn't know how far we took to stop, but it sure seemed less than 18 seconds.


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## Ryan (Mar 21, 2016)

How fast were you going?


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## greatcats (Apr 1, 2016)

Postscript of sorts to the Kansas derailment: I learned a few days ago that a lady who is a member of my church here in Flagstaff was traveling to Chicago in coach on this train. Tonight I spoke with her. While she was quite shaken up by what happened, she said she did not really feel afraid - she expressed thoughts of faith that she would be OK even as the coaches ended up turned on their sides.. She did not go to the hospital, although had a CAT scan here today, rather a bit too long after the fact, I would think. She seemed fine tonight as I spoke with her as she was getting in her car at church. They were taken into town and then, after a lengthy wait, were taken by buses from a local junior college and driven to Kansas City, where the passengers were put up for the night in a hotel. The next morning they boarded the next day's Train 4, which I believe came by way of the Amarillo detour, and she said another locomotive and several cars were added to this train, which I heard had been deadheaded from Chicago. She arrived in Chicago about 27 hours late. I did not discuss with her about her return trip.


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## Dan O (Apr 1, 2016)

Would these folks likely get any kind of voucher/return of points for all their troubles? If so, would Amtrak offer it or would they have to call someone and ask for it?

Greatcats--thanks for the update.


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## PerRock (Apr 8, 2016)

NTSB Preliminary report: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/DCA14MR004_prelim.aspx

Apparently a corn feed truck drove over the tracks and knocked them out of whack.

peter


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## eblkheart (Apr 8, 2016)

Dan O said:


> Would these folks likely get any kind of voucher/return of points for all their troubles? If so, would Amtrak offer it or would they have to call someone and ask for it?
> 
> Greatcats--thanks for the update.


My train last year was 11 hours late and I had gotten a voucher for part of the trip. I did have to call, but once they looked at my trip info, they had zero issues issuing something to me very quickly.


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## Agent (Apr 9, 2016)

Amtrak and BNSF Railway have filed suit against the feed company.


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## afigg (Apr 9, 2016)

The interesting bit in the KWCH article is:



> Court documents show Amtrak is alleging Cimarron Crossing Feeders employees left a feed truck unattended, out of gear and without the brakes on. It said that truck rolled downhill and hit the track causing damage "that resulted in a displacement of the railroad tracks of over one foot."
> 
> Amtrak is accusing the employees of removing the truck from the track area without telling anyone about the damage the truck caused to the tracks


I had not been following the news reports closely. I had figured that someone drove the truck over the tracks and hit the track. Instead, it was an unattended truck that rolled downhill and slammed into the rail. What I am curious about is just how much force it took for the truck to displace the railroad track by over 1 foot. That is a not a minor or small hit. That truck had to be rolling downhill at a decent speed. Not going to be able to claim plausibly in court, hey it was a minor fender bender, didn't think anyone would notice.


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## Karl1459 (Apr 9, 2016)

I can easily see a scenario where those responsible for the truck were more concerned with the obvious issue of getting the truck off the railroad right of way and made an assumption that the track was an immovable object and so was not possible to damage. They then either did not inspect the track or were not capable of knowing the track was damaged.


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## Thirdrail7 (Apr 10, 2016)

Karl1459 said:


> I can easily see a scenario where those responsible for the truck were more concerned with the obvious issue of getting the truck off the railroad right of way and made an assumption that the track was an immovable object and so was not possible to damage. They then either did not inspect the track or were not capable of knowing the track was damaged.


Agreed. I would also add they may not even know who to report this incident to or how.


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## greatcats (Apr 10, 2016)

How about notifying the police for starters? They likely wanted to sweep the matter under the rug. Terrible result of irresponsible behavior.


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## Thirdrail7 (Apr 10, 2016)

greatcats said:


> How about notifying the police for starters? They likely wanted to sweep the matter under the rug. Terrible result of irresponsible behavior.


Notifying them of what? I had a car run away and it came to rest against a railroad? I suppose if you backed into a telephone pole coming out of a parking spot and it didn't leave a dent in your car, you'd start calling 911 and the utility companies? Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## jfandre (Apr 10, 2016)

You can see the hill the truck rolled down in the street view:

https://goo.gl/maps/GAY3T8TFTrz


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2016)

PerRock said:


> . . .
> 
> Apparently a corn feed truck drove over the tracks and knocked them out of whack.
> 
> peter


That's not what the report says, and not what the photos in the report show.

The truck hit the ties with it's bumper perpendicular to them and pushed the ties and attached tracks sideways and out of alignment.


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## afigg (Apr 10, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > How about notifying the police for starters? They likely wanted to sweep the matter under the rug. Terrible result of irresponsible behavior.
> ...


The truck had visible damage to its front bumper according to the NTSB preliminary report: "Investigators observed damage to the truck’s front bumper. The front bumper’s left and right mounting brackets were broken; the fracture faces were clean and had no sign of oxidation—indicating a recent break."

The link to the initial complaint filed by Amtrak and BNSF is provided in the KWCH report. The complaint is only 7 pages long and is a terse summary of the reasons for the lawsuit. Obviously will be followed by more detailed complaints, discovery, and depositions, but the complaint lays out the basics of the claim. The feed truck rolled across Rt. 50, so they got lucky it did not hit a car.

Cimarron apparently had to tow the truck off of the track bed and it is claimed failed to notify BNSF at any time of what occurred. Whether Cimarron or its employees or managers should have known to notify BNSF will be a key part of the litigation issues.


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## niemi24s (Apr 10, 2016)

Using a combination of Google Earth and a topographic map it appears the truck traveled from a height of about 82' above the tracks down a grade of about 3.8%. As the train derailed at about local midnight, it's possible the damage to the track and the removal of the feed grain truck also occurred in the darkness.

It could have been a lot worse, I think, if the truck had struck the track just as the train was passing and hit the train too.


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## TrackWalker (Apr 10, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > How about notifying the police for starters? They likely wanted to sweep the matter under the rug. Terrible result of irresponsible behavior.
> ...


That is exactly what you do. Dial 911.

They then call the the area railroad dispatcher. All trains in that stretch of track are stopped.

Dispatcher calls the MOW call desk who then calls out the local track inspector or foreman.

He eventually arrives to inspect the track and either says, "Tracks are OK for train movement " or "Oh, S**t".

I've spent many a night out called out to do this. Freight can wait. Amtrak can wait.

Luckily, all I've ever had to say was, "OK for train movement."


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## greatcats (Apr 11, 2016)

Sorry, Thirdrail, I must disagree with you and agree with Track Walker. Backing into a telephone pole is quite a bit different than bending a railroad track out of alignment. Somebody slipped up big time there not notifying the railroad.


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## AmtrakBlue (Apr 11, 2016)

greatcats said:


> Sorry, Thirdrail, I must disagree with you and agree with Track Walker. Backing into a telephone pole is quite a bit different than bending a railroad track out of alignment. Somebody slipped up big time there not notifying the railroad.


I think Thirdrail7 was implying the truck people did not even know they damaged the track with his comparison of hitting a pole. If you don't think you caused damage that could be a problem later, you're not likely to call it in.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 11, 2016)

If they used a tow truck to remove the feed truck, then the railroad should of been notified. If the driver was able to self recover the truck, I can see him not reporting. (Trying to keep his job.) But the use of a tow truck to recover the feed truck, means people were notified. Even if the feed truck bounce off the track and roll back into the ditch next to the track. You have a tow truck company that is use to working with police, fire, and EMS. They understand damage need to be reported. (Guard rails, bridges, Hazmat, and even dirt-mud). Clean up is just as big as recovering the vehicle, if not more costly.


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## greatcats (Apr 11, 2016)

I agree that if the truck was self removed, those responsible clammed up in order to keep their job. That is understandable to a certain extent, but I still find it irresponsible conduct. Yes, it may have been dark, but if the track was dislodged that far out of alignment, how could they have missed it? If a tow truck or police were involved, then it is ridiculous that the railroad was not notified. The resulting wreck was terrible, although the results could have been much worse. I was amazed that the entire consist was run east several days later. ( You may have seen my mention recently that a member of my church from Flagstaff was on that train and she was badly shaken up, but fortunately not seriously injured. )


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## niemi24s (Apr 11, 2016)

Oh goody - now we've got a third party tow truck involved. Involved to assist in the removal of a tractor-trailer belonging to a feed grain company. A feed grain company that most probably has more than a single vehicle capable of acting as a tow vehicle. And as they deliver their feed grain to feed lots which seldom (if ever) have paved roads, getting a truck stuck in the mud is probably par for the course. And because of that, the company probably equips every delivery truck with a set of tow chains/straps to do their own towing.

Because of those factors I'd be amazed if a third party tow truck was needed. Any towing needed could no doubt be handled by the feed grain company.

Now - let's see who can come up with a reason why the National Guard should have been mobilized!


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 11, 2016)

Straight truck not a tractor trailer.

If the driver self rescue the truck, then I could understand the lack of reporting. However the monument you get help, from a co-worker or your supervisor. The lack of reporting becomes a problem. After all it was landed between the a major road US 50, and the railroad tracks. One thinks your going to block the highway for any type of recover from that spot. A lot of people need for that.


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## west point (Apr 11, 2016)

Since trucks are heavier and mostly require CDL licenses it is time for whenever you renew your CDL that there is a short test to take. Some of the questions should cover the requirement whenever any rail, utility road damage or incursions happens. etc. As well RR crossing safety.


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## keelhauled (Apr 11, 2016)

Agricultural employees are often fairly widely exempted from carrying a CDL. Here in Vermont I can drive either of our ten wheelers up to I think 150 miles from the farm without a CDL and it's perfectly legal. We don't have any tractor-trailers, but some farms do and I assume they are exempt as well.


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## VentureForth (Apr 11, 2016)

How do you freakin' knock a rail 1' out of whack without noticing?


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## CCC1007 (Apr 11, 2016)

VentureForth said:


> How do you freakin' knock a rail 1' out of whack without noticing?


Maybe they assumed that if the track isn't broken it is good?


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## VentureForth (Apr 11, 2016)

Ryan said:


> How fast were you going?


Probably slower. But it was essentially the same trainset. This one was traveling at 60 MPH.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Apr 11, 2016)

VentureForth said:


> How do you freakin' knock a rail 1' out of whack without noticing?


No operator in the cab that how. Truck hits track then rolls back, and the operator recovers the vehicle. Drives off hoping nobody reports him, so he does not lose his job.


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## greatcats (Apr 11, 2016)

Just Thinking- I will have to admit that last scenario of yours makes sense.


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## sechs (Apr 12, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > How about notifying the police for starters? They likely wanted to sweep the matter under the rug. Terrible result of irresponsible behavior.
> ...


Telling somebody is better than telling nobody.

Even if these guys didn't intend to hide the problem, this is what appears to have resulted.


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## Thirdrail7 (Apr 17, 2016)

AmtrakBlue said:


> greatcats said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, Thirdrail, I must disagree with you and agree with Track Walker. Backing into a telephone pole is quite a bit different than bending a railroad track out of alignment. Somebody slipped up big time there not notifying the railroad.
> ...


Exactly.



Just-Thinking-51 said:


> VentureForth said:
> 
> 
> > How do you freakin' knock a rail 1' out of whack without noticing?
> ...


or drives off not even considering that this incident could have resulted in damage.



sechs said:


> Thirdrail7 said:
> 
> 
> > greatcats said:
> ...


Indeed, but that falls under 20/20 hindsight. My point is the average person would not consider that damage could or would occur especially if nothing happened to their vehicle. Therefore, they are not likely to call anyone...let alone 911.


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## greatcats (Apr 17, 2016)

Thirdrail- Fair enough. I have a good opinion of your posts. The result was still an unnecessary mess.


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## sechs (Apr 18, 2016)

Thirdrail7 said:


> sechs said:
> 
> 
> > Thirdrail7 said:
> ...


You wouldn't call 911 for an apparent non-emergency situation. All police have a regular number that you can call.

This is hardly about hindsight. It's more about a CYA. You tell the police -- they dismiss it -- well, you let an authority know.

These guys _did _have damage to their vehicle. From what I've seen so far, these guys left their rears exposed.


----------

