# A Look Back at Diners in the Silver Era



## ehbowen (Jan 31, 2015)

Streamliner Memories (no affiliation) is a wonderful site for scanned memorabilia of the streamliner era, particularly brochures and dining car menus. One of his latest postings was this souvenir cookbook from the Santa Fe Railway. It's fascinating to go through and read the little tidbits of information. Did you realize that standard dining cars on the Santa Fe carried a staff of _eleven?_ That's right---a steward, four cooks, and six waiters to staff a 48 seat diner. There's also a listing of the stations where Santa Fe maintained commissaries: Chicago, Kansas City, Houston, Clovis, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles.

Spend a few minutes there....


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## Swadian Hardcore (Jan 31, 2015)

So the Steward would manage the Waiters? I wonder where the huge crew slept back then.


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## ehbowen (Feb 1, 2015)

Many trains had "dormitory" cars, usually combined with the baggage car or sometimes with a lounge. However, I understand that it was not uncommon for the diner crew to put the chairs up on the tables at night and crash out on the carpeted floor...sometimes with the aid of blankets and mattresses stashed in an underfloor compartment, sometimes not.


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 1, 2015)

South of the Mason Dixon Line before the 1960s and passage of the Civil Rights Laws, Black Crew Members were not allowed to sleep in Cars with Whites, so many of the Black OBS did sleep in the Diner or a Crew Dorm, which in some cases was more like a Box Car or a Baggage Car! ( similar to the Troop Sleepers in WWII)

In the case of the Pullmans, there was a designated Upper Bunk for the Porter who was always Black, but they didn't get to sleep much as they were expected to shine shoes,help the Pullman Conductor load and unload passengers during the night @stops, including making up rooms as needed!

When the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters was finally recognized by the Pullman Company and the Railroads

things slowly improved, but they still

didn't get much, if any, sleep!

Its still a tough job now, but compared to back in the day it's a piece of cake!


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 1, 2015)

Yeah, the Diners on the Streamliner and Crack Trains were really special!

As one old enough to have gotten to ride on some of the crack trains ( Super Chief, Sunset Ltd.,Southern Crescent, Broadway Ltd., 20th Century Ltd) I have fond memories of the Diners and the wonderful service and fabulous food available for high prices that ranged up to as much as $3..50!!!! Everything was a la carte in those days! ( and during the early days of Amtrak too!)

Always sorry I didn't get to ride on the Panama Ltd. and have their famous Kings Feast! Also missed out on the Turquoise Room on the Super Chief!


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## railiner (Feb 1, 2015)

ehbowen said:


> Streamliner Memories (no affiliation) is a wonderful site for scanned memorabilia of the streamliner era, particularly brochures and dining car menus. One of his latest postings was this souvenir cookbook from the Santa Fe Railway. It's fascinating to go through and read the little tidbits of information. Did you realize that standard dining cars on the Santa Fe carried a staff of _eleven?_ That's right---a steward, four cooks, and six waiters to staff a 48 seat diner. There's also a listing of the stations where Santa Fe maintained commissaries: Chicago, Kansas City, Houston, Clovis, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles.
> 
> Spend a few minutes there....


Some of the Santa Fe diner's only seated 36---two tops, and four tops....real luxury. Not sure how many less staff (if any) those cars had.


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## railiner (Feb 1, 2015)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> So the Steward would manage the Waiters? I wonder where the huge crew slept back then.





ehbowen said:


> Many trains had "dormitory" cars, usually combined with the baggage car or sometimes with a lounge. However, I understand that it was not uncommon for the diner crew to put the chairs up on the tables at night and crash out on the carpeted floor...sometimes with the aid of blankets and mattresses stashed in an underfloor compartment, sometimes not.


The Broadway Limited's Twin-Unit Diner's had tables and a pantry in one car, and the kitchen and dormitory in the other car. The dorm had a steward's room, and IIRC 18 bunk beds, rest rooms and showers for the crew.


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## railiner (Feb 1, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> Yeah, the Diners on the Streamliner and Crack Trains were really special!
> 
> As one old enough to have gotten to ride on some of the crack trains ( Super Chief, Sunset Ltd.,Southern Crescent, Broadway Ltd., 20th Century Ltd) I have fond memories of the Diners and the wonderful service and fabulous food available for high prices that ranged up to as much as $3..50!!!! Everything was a la carte in those days! ( and during the early days of Amtrak too!)
> 
> Always sorry I didn't get to ride on the Panama Ltd. and have their famous Kings Feast! Also missed out on the Turquoise Room on the Super Chief!


The Turquoise Room was located in the rear end of the "Pleasure Dome" lounge, adjacent to the dining car. It could serve as either an overflow to the dining car, or as additional lounge space, as required. It could also be reserved for private parties, seating about a dozen passengers. The dome section featured two and one rotating seats, There was a beautifully furnished lounge below the dome, and another nice lounge in the forward section. One of the nicest cars I have had the pleasure to travel in.

I would 'do anything' to get a hold of one of those beautiful brass cylinder table lamps that were in the lower lounge..... 

I too lament not having enjoyed the fabulous "King's Feast" on the Panama Limited...without a doubt the greatest meal ever offered on any train!


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## ehbowen (Feb 1, 2015)

railiner said:


> ehbowen said:
> 
> 
> > Streamliner Memories (no affiliation) is a wonderful site for scanned memorabilia of the streamliner era, particularly brochures and dining car menus. One of his latest postings was this souvenir cookbook from the Santa Fe Railway. It's fascinating to go through and read the little tidbits of information. Did you realize that standard dining cars on the Santa Fe carried a staff of _eleven?_ That's right---a steward, four cooks, and six waiters to staff a 48 seat diner. There's also a listing of the stations where Santa Fe maintained commissaries: Chicago, Kansas City, Houston, Clovis, Bakersfield, and Los Angeles.
> ...


Well, the blurb in the booklet specifically referred to the crew in a "standard" diner, which I take to mean 48 seats. Considering that the 36 seat diners usually operated on the "premium premium" trains, i.e. the _Super Chief_, I would think it unlikely that they trimmed the staff any at all. On the other hand, _El Capitan__'s _80 seat Hi-Level diner (which may well have made its debut after this little cookbook was printed) may have carried even more staff....


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## railiner (Feb 1, 2015)

ehbowen said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > ehbowen said:
> ...


You are probably correct. Just imagine the level of service that could be provided by one waiter serving only six guests!

Of course in that era, they did not use stainless steel flatware. No sir! Between meals, when passing through the diner, one might see waiters busily polishing the real silverware....


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## spacecadet (Feb 1, 2015)

railiner said:


> One of the nicest cars I have had the pleasure to travel in.


At least one of these cars still exists in more or less its original state and can be chartered: http://www.californiarailtours.com/PSF.html

I realize the web site itself is terrible.


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## chakk (Feb 1, 2015)

ehbowen said:


> Many trains had "dormitory" cars, usually combined with the baggage car or sometimes with a lounge. However, I understand that it was not uncommon for the diner crew to put the chairs up on the tables at night and crash out on the carpeted floor...sometimes with the aid of blankets and mattresses stashed in an underfloor compartment, sometimes not.


I rode the Super Chief from LA to Chicago in September 1970. At that time, the Super Chief ran combined with the El Capitan, so I bet the Super Chief dining car crew slept in the dorm rooms in the dorm-coach car in the El Capitan consist.

I think I had this sirloin steak dinner on the first night out of LA, but don't recall having any champagne -- I was a month shy of age 21, so it may not have been legal to serve me any.


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## railiner (Feb 1, 2015)

spacecadet said:


> railiner said:
> 
> 
> > One of the nicest cars I have had the pleasure to travel in.
> ...


Thanks so much for that link....the car looks great...a blend of the original furnishings with some updates.....

This image from that site shows those art-deco style lamps, (along the aisle divider) I am crazy about.... 







One thing puzzle's me....I don't recall that stairway between the lower lounge and the Turquoise Room....I had thought that the Turquoise Room was 'blind' at that end....but then again, it's been a long time since I rode in one of those.....

Edit: I found some older photo's of the car back when it was still in Santa Fe service, and yes, those steps and entry were there. I believe there was a door that could close off that entry, and it was probably closed the time(s) I rode that car....


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## Bob Dylan (Feb 1, 2015)

Great pictures! As I said, I sure regret not being able to eat in the Turquoise Room and getting to hang out in that fantastic Dome Lounge!!


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## SarahZ (Feb 1, 2015)

I love the ceiling and furniture in the Starlight Lounge. I'm a huge fan of art deco AND mid-century modern, so all of those pictures please me.


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## spacecadet (Feb 2, 2015)

The reason I knew about the Turquoise Room car that still exists is that I coincidentally Googled it just a few weeks ago after watching this fantastic promotional Super Chief film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl_LoQ4vHDc

Around 5:33 begins a long section on the Pleasure Dome. The Turquoise Room is shown near the end of that segment. You can definitely see the stairs up from the lower lounge in action (the waiter uses them).

Before the section on the Pleasure Dome, you can see the regular dining car.

There are a lot of videos similar to this on YouTube - they're all amazing, but this is probably the best one I've found. Most don't focus like this on a single passenger train. But the railroads definitely made a lot of promotional films to try to convince the public (and government) of their continuing relevance in the 1950's and 60's.


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## rrdude (Feb 2, 2015)

When I started at Amtrak in 77 or 78, right about as the Superliners were entering service, (We trained on them in Chicago yards, but were sent out that first year on Ex-Santa Fe High-Levels....Of which the open chain driven food lifts in the High-Level diners were 1000% better (OK, "faster" DEF NOT safer) than the Superliner Dumbwaiters)

I ran on the Chief for the bulk of my first year, but many trips on the Inter-American (?) too, which was single-level. I distinctly remember our crew on the single-level diners to be: Steward. Chef. Asst Cook. Dish Washer. 4 Waiters. Talk about being able to TURN tables, we ripped it!. WITH really good service too, and ALL the food was freshly cooked, sometimes in ovens fired by Presto Logs. (no joke) Freezers too, were often as not, boxes with Dry Ice.

The Superliner equipment, which began appearing the next summer, were quite the improvement, don't get me wrong. It was like "Space Shuttle Technology" compared to what we were used to. But boy, did those dumbwaiters SLOW DOWN getting food outa the kitchen. Can't tell you how many times I took the stairs down, JUST TO GET MY FOOD, that was waiting to come up.

The Chief also had DORM cars for crew. Only Stewards and LSA's got private accommodations (to secure their bank) Some of the DORM cars had bunk-beds three high, and were also baggage cars as discussed. Sleeping in that top bunk was like taking your life in your own hands, as it rocked-n-rolled on old jointed rail at 90mph + along much of the old Santa Fe route.


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## railiner (Feb 3, 2015)

spacecadet said:


> The reason I knew about the Turquoise Room car that still exists is that I coincidentally Googled it just a few weeks ago after watching this fantastic promotional Super Chief film:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl_LoQ4vHDc
> 
> ...


That's a fantastic video! Thanks so much for the link!

The Pleasure Dome car in that video was the original 1950 design. It was extensively remodeled sometime between 1956 and 1964, around the time the El Cap joined the fleet. The barber shop, and shower were eliminated, and the paneling and furnishings were changed around, as well, as depicted in the earlier posted links. That was when my favorite lamps were added. You can also see in that video, where they could 'close off' the Turquoise Room somewhat, via a curtain, and accordion-pleated coverings of the open area's....


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