# Could Superliners run DC to Miami and/or New Orleans?



## Mailliw (Nov 18, 2020)

Could Amtrak run Superliners (or a bilevel replacement) on the Silver Service or Crescent if they wanted to move the northern terminus to DC from NYC?


----------



## jiml (Nov 18, 2020)

Interesting question, since they've certainly run Superliner Cardinals south of WAS. I seem to recall a clearance issue somewhere in the Carolinas and no idea on the Crescent route. Obviously lack of equipment also a concern.


----------



## west point (Nov 18, 2020)

Double stacks run on CSX JAX - WASH so no clearance problem there . Now the CSX "S" line Raleigh - Savannah unknown. NS runs double stacks Manassas - New Orleans so no problem there


----------



## railiner (Nov 18, 2020)

Whether they could or not, is beside the point...why would they want to?
I think it would be much more important to run thru service up the NEC.
And to have more equipment available for current Superliner routes, when demand returns, post pandemic. JMHO...


----------



## cocojacoby (Nov 18, 2020)

Well one thing we have discussed on other threads is the idea of running the Capitol Limited (which is Superliner equipped) through D.C. to Florida. That would create a Chicago/Ohio to Florida through service. This could be an additional train to the Silvers or cars off of a Regional could be added to the end of the CL Superliner consist in D.C.


----------



## jis (Nov 20, 2020)

There isn;t enough serviceable Superliner equipment available in the roster currently for any of these pie in the sky ideas to be implemented.


----------



## me_little_me (Nov 20, 2020)

jis said:


> There isn;t enough serviceable Superliner equipment available in the roster currently for any of these pie in the sky ideas to be implemented.


Sure there is. They're sitting idle while Amtrak runs 3 days a week. Perfect time to test new service.


----------



## Trogdor (Nov 21, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Sure there is. They're sitting idle while Amtrak runs 3 days a week. Perfect time to test new service.



How is it the “perfect time to test new service” when nobody is traveling right now? Then what do you do when ridership returns and you need that equipment to run their original routes?

Further, what “new service” would be tested by running different equipment on the same route? Adding a new route takes years of planning and hundreds of millions in extortion payments investment in host railroad upgrades.


----------



## Trogdor (Nov 21, 2020)

It should be noted that Superliners have already run (close to) DC to Miami on a regular basis, just not on a single train. The Auto Train runs Lorton, VA to Sanford, and the Sunset Limited used to go to Miami.


----------



## jis (Nov 21, 2020)

As long as the COVID thing is on, nothing new will be tried and we will be struggling to not lose any further service.

Once full service is restored there will not be enough Superliners left to execute these ideas, unless some existing service is never restored.

Having said that, planning for the future is a good idea in order to inform the next round of car orders and what the magnitude of the order should be.


----------



## me_little_me (Nov 21, 2020)

Trogdor said:


> How is it the “perfect time to test new service” when nobody is traveling right now? Then what do you do when ridership returns and you need that equipment to run their original routes?
> 
> Further, what “new service” would be tested by running different equipment on the same route? Adding a new route takes years of planning and hundreds of millions in extortion payments investment in host railroad upgrades.


Nobody is traveling? Well, it seems they are in sleepers.

If this is a "test" for viability, then you run it until the cars are needed for their original routes (and announce that it is temporary).

Amtrak had been paying for two trains every day in each direction between DC and Miami. They are running only one.


----------



## Qapla (Nov 21, 2020)

Those trains run from NYC to Miami - WDC is a stop on the route. If they were to use superliners they would have to eliminate NYC as part of the route.

Since quite a number of people who board in Florida are going all the way to NYC it would not make much sense to eliminate the "one seat" ride when it would work just as well to add more viewliner cars to the consist instead of making a consist that cannot get to NYC


----------



## west point (Nov 21, 2020)

Lack of equipment even precludes the use o one Silver train to go to BOS and that probably will not change for at least 10 years unless a very large order is put on Siemens.


----------



## railiner (Nov 22, 2020)

Recall when they ran a thru sleeper from Miami to Montreal. They switched at Washington, rather than New York.


----------



## Trogdor (Nov 22, 2020)

me_little_me said:


> Nobody is traveling? Well, it seems they are in sleepers.
> 
> If this is a "test" for viability, then you run it until the cars are needed for their original routes (and announce that it is temporary).
> 
> Amtrak had been paying for two trains every day in each direction between DC and Miami. They are running only one.



If they need more service to Miami, then just run each of the Silvers every day. There’s nothing to “test.” They’ve been doing it for years already, right up to four months ago.


----------



## jiml (Nov 22, 2020)

railiner said:


> Recall when they ran a thru sleeper from Miami to Montreal. They switched at Washington, rather than New York.


There was also a through Silver sleeper on either the Broadway or the single-level Capitol. We were on it once - just can't remember which.


----------



## PVD (Nov 22, 2020)

I may be in the minority, but from a passenger standpoint, other than the SSL, which is not a gamechanger for the NY to Florida stretch, exactly what does a SL consist bring me? VL diners are fine, other than the downstairs luggage rack, VL sleepers are better, and the seats in a refurbed AM2 coach are fine. Losing all the North of WAS passengers, why would you do that?


----------



## jis (Nov 22, 2020)

Trogdor said:


> It should be noted that Superliners have already run (close to) DC to Miami on a regular basis, just not on a single train. The Auto Train runs Lorton, VA to Sanford, and the Sunset Limited used to go to Miami.


Also Superliner version of Cardinal has covered Washington Union Station to AF interlocking in Alexandria with Superliners on the Florida route, and upto Orange on the Crescent route


----------



## railiner (Nov 22, 2020)

jiml said:


> There was also a through Silver sleeper on either the Broadway or the single-level Capitol. We were on it once - just can't remember which.


Believe it was the Capitol and the Star ...
Between 1984 and 1986, and again between 1991 and 1993...
This was prior to Superliners on the Cap.


----------



## jiml (Nov 22, 2020)

railiner said:


> Believe it was the Capitol and the Star ...
> Between 1984 and 1986, and again between 1991 and 1993...
> This was prior to Superliners on the Cap.


I believe you. Every year for several in a row we did a similar routing to Florida "back in the day". We had to connect in Hammond-Whiting, IN, and Amtrak kept toggling the schedules of the Broadway and the Capitol, so I can't remember whether we connected in Philly one year vs. Washington the next. There was only one year with a through sleeper though. Sometimes we returned through Montreal, although never benefited from the through sleeper you mentioned previously.


----------



## OBS (Nov 22, 2020)

railiner said:


> Believe it was the Capitol and the Star ...
> Between 1984 and 1986, and again between 1991 and 1993...
> This was prior to Superliners on the Cap.


IIRC, between 1991 and 1993 it was just a coach that connected from #30 to #91 and visa versa...


----------



## railiner (Nov 22, 2020)

OBS said:


> IIRC, between 1991 and 1993 it was just a coach that connected from #30 to #91 and visa versa...


Just looked at the 1991 TT, and you are correct. That does seem peculiar, though. Traditional practice was running thru sleepers before running thru coaches...


----------



## bratkinson (Nov 22, 2020)

Just as a reminder, wasn't it Raleigh that just opened a new station about 2 years ago with high level platforms? There is no way whatsoever for Superliners to use high level platforms.


----------



## PVD (Nov 23, 2020)

Why cloud perfectly good opinions with facts?


----------



## jis (Nov 23, 2020)

bratkinson said:


> Just as a reminder, wasn't it Raleigh that just opened a new station about 2 years ago with high level platforms? There is no way whatsoever for Superliners to use high level platforms.


Facts have never stopped drooling railfans from drooling on


----------



## MARC Rider (Nov 23, 2020)

PVD said:


> I may be in the minority, but from a passenger standpoint, other than the SSL, which is not a gamechanger for the NY to Florida stretch, exactly what does a SL consist bring me? VL diners are fine, other than the downstairs luggage rack, VL sleepers are better, and the seats in a refurbed AM2 coach are fine. Losing all the North of WAS passengers, why would you do that?


The Amfleet lounge cars could be improved. They're not the most comfortable places to sit and hang out instead of having to be stuck in your coach seat for a 24 hour trip. But you don't need SSLs for that, just some refurbishment of the seating in the existing Amfleet lounge cars.


----------



## NS VIA Fan (Nov 23, 2020)

railiner said:


> Recall when they ran a thru sleeper from Miami to Montreal. They switched at Washington, rather than New York.



Here's the roll-sign in Montreal.....and you can just barely see 'Miami FL' 'chalked-in' below Washington for the through sleeper. For awhile CP Rail 'Chateau' Sleepers were leased to Amtrak for the service. The same cars VIA still uses.

]



Timetable from Winter 1973-74

The Museum of Railway Timetables (timetables.org)


----------



## jpakala (Nov 24, 2020)

Viewliners are superior especially with the wheelchair-accessible bedroom. The ceilings everywhere are higher, helping reduced claustrophobia especially in the roomettes but also in the bedroom upper birth. SL roomettes all require leaving the room for even use of a sink and not infrequently negotiating the stairway as well.


----------



## bratkinson (Nov 25, 2020)

Although I prefer the ride and quiet of Superliners, having almost no temperature control in the rooms is a big negative in my opinion.

Aside from that, here's another monkey wrench I just remembered...all single level eastern trains except the Cardinal are 'swappable' at Sunnyside Yard in NYC. When running 2019 summer consists, both Silvers and the Crescent trainsets could be swapped as they are identical. Other than cutting in/out a lounge car in the NY section of the Lakeshore Ltd, that trainset is fully swappable as well. Sadly, it would seem that Amtrak has finally achieved their unstated goal of 'uniformity' for LD trains with fixed consists across all routes to save money.


----------



## jis (Nov 26, 2020)

The number of Sleepers in the eastern LD trains is not the same. At SSYD SM has three and the SS, LSL and Crescent have two. This is of course in non-COVID times.


----------

