# Worst Amtrak Station?



## cocojacoby (Jun 5, 2021)

I couldn't believe the condition of the Amtrak station in this video at 23 minutes in. Seriously Amtrak? How embarrassing . . . and maybe even dangerous. Is there another station worse than this?


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## Anderson (Jun 5, 2021)

So, Balto-Penn used to be _really_ bad upstairs. I think there are a few other stations that have been in pretty bad shape (though some were largely due to pure age...Osceola, IA was "quaint" but it was a 100+-year-old wooden structure that sometimes felt like it would have blown over in a stiff breeze). But Texarkana is probably on a short list of "worst-condition stations" if you exclude things like deteriorated platform ends and the like.


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## Qapla (Jun 5, 2021)

Since the Texarkana station straddles the state line - who owns the station? Amtrak? Texas? Arkansas?



> The Arkansas-Texas border bisects the structure; the eastern part, including the waiting room and ticket office, are in Texarkana, Arkansas, but the western part is in Texarkana, Texas, meaning stopped trains span both states. The station was built in 1928 and was added to the U.S. National Register of Historic Places in 1978.
> The present structure replaced an earlier Texarkana station on the same site, and was opened for business on April 17, 1930
> Owned by Jeff Sandefur



It may not be up to Amtrak to be able to do the much needed repairs, maintenance and cleaning.


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## Cal (Jun 5, 2021)

I was there recently and was very surprised to see that as the train station.


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## Ziv (Jun 5, 2021)

I was thinking that Deming’s Amshack without a paved platform was bad, maybe the worst.
Wrong! Texarkana is an embarrassment. Heck, one person with a push broom could make a slight but noticeable improvement in 30 minutes by sweeping and then moving debris. Making it fit for use would take a lot more, of course.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 5, 2021)

Looks great next to the station that was literally falling down at Sanderson, TX (since torn down), or Beaumont's infamous slab, now replaced by a nice, though unstaffed, shelter .

While it is a decrepit, poorly maintained old station that was designed for much more service than 1 train a day, it is staffed and maintains stations services. That makes it one of the better stations in my book.

As a matter of perspective, I have been riding Amtrak literally since its inception on May 1st 1971. Throughout the 1970s, decaying edifices such as Texarkana were common. KC was one, Detroid MC was another. St. Louis Uniion before they moved to the trailers was another. Decaying stations were the rule, not the exception. Amtrak's physical stations are generally much better now, many of the old ones still in use have been gloriously restored.

I'd rather see a staffed, though decaying, Texarkana than a grade crossing in Deming.


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## MARC Rider (Jun 5, 2021)

Anderson said:


> So, Balto-Penn used to be _really_ bad upstairs.


How long ago was that? Even back in the 1960s and 1970s when I was a kid, I don't remember the Baltimore station being that bad, and after the station was restored in 1984, it was actually pretty nice.


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## joelkfla (Jun 5, 2021)

Looks like the set of a post-apocalyptic SciFi movie. But the lone plastic chair situated on the platform helped.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 5, 2021)

joelkfla said:


> Looks like the set of a post-apocalyptic SciFi movie. But the lone plastic chair situated on the platform helped.


You never saw Detroit's Michigan Central station shortly before Amtrak stopped using it. Texarkana is a gleaming showpiece next to that.

There first big hall after entering from the street was unlit, huge, dark, decaying vaults. You walked down a passage between two plywood walls with lights on them with the huge dark cavern surrounding you. When you got the next area, there were was plaster falling, lighting was adequate but dim. Huge dim space with a few passengers wandering around. The passage to the platforms reeked, and I mean reeked, of urine.

It was by far the creepiest place I have been in. I think it was closed less than a year after I was there.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 6, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Looks great next to the station that was literally falling down at Sanderson, TX (since torn down), or Beaumont's infamous slab, now replaced by a nice, though unstaffed, shelter .
> 
> While it is a decrepit, poorly maintained old station that was designed for much more service than 1 train a day, it is staffed and maintains stations services. That makes it one of the better stations in my book.
> 
> ...


Ths once Grand Buffalo Central Terminal is the one that comes to mind when discussing decaying, poorly maintained Stations.


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## Gary Behling (Jun 6, 2021)

cocojacoby said:


> I couldn't believe the condition of the Amtrak station in this video at 23 minutes in. Seriously Amtrak? How embarrassing . . . and maybe even dangerous. Is there another station worse than this?



What do you expect? This is TEXAS!!!!


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## Devil's Advocate (Jun 7, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Looks great next to the station that was literally falling down at Sanderson, TX (since torn down), or Beaumont's infamous slab, now replaced by a nice, though unstaffed, shelter .


All indications are that Sanderson does not need or want Amtrak service but the fact that it exists anyway is kind of amusing to me. My guess is that the motivation is to provide UP a window for freight to pass by Amtrak.


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## Burns651 (Jun 7, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> ...many of the old ones still in use have been gloriously restored...



Often with Amtrak facilities banished to a small room at the rear.


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## Qapla (Jun 7, 2021)

If they ever restored Silver Service to Waldo - they would be hard-pressed to give Amtrak less space if they renovated the depot


It isn't all the large to start with


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## cocojacoby (Jun 7, 2021)

I think it's actually still used although it's a bus now.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 7, 2021)

Burns651 said:


> Often with Amtrak facilities banished to a small room at the rear.


Unfortunately, with one, two, or three trains a day instead of like 60, they don't need any more than that. If they had the whole space of, say, KC Union Station, which they did at one point, they couldn't afford to maintain it or even heat it. The grand old stations with service far less than they were designed for are better off as multi-use buildings or museums, with Amtrak leasing space, so that they can be maintained in some semblance of their former glory.

You prefer the station in the parking garage that Amtrak had for many years in KC to being in a corner of the magnificently restored Union Station? Or maybe the plastic bubble squatting in a rotting hulk they had the last years before the parking garage?

Or being expelled entirely as in San Antonio or St. Louis?


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## Qapla (Jun 7, 2021)

cocojacoby said:


> I think it's actually still used although it's a bus now.



Yes, it is a Thruway bus location - but, my understanding is they only use the parking lot and the building is not used - especially since the bus gets there for 9:15 PM pickup


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## railiner (Jun 7, 2021)

Speaking of buses, who remembers when the chartered Greyhound that shuttled passenger's between the Cheyenne station and the train stop at Borie, Wy. _was _the station? For quite a while. The station agent even rode the bus to handle the checked baggage.
One advantage...they did not have to make double stops on a long train...the bus took passengers to their assigned cars once the train was stopped.


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## brianpmcdonnell17 (Jun 7, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Unfortunately, with one, two, or three trains a day instead of like 60, they don't need any more than that. If they had the whole space of, say, KC Union Station, which they did at one point, they couldn't afford to maintain it or even heat it. The grand old stations with service far less than they were designed for are better off as multi-use buildings or museums, with Amtrak leasing space, so that they can be maintained in some semblance of their former glory.
> 
> You prefer the station in the parking garage that Amtrak had for many years in KC to being in a corner of the magnificently restored Union Station? Or maybe the plastic bubble squatting in a rotting hulk they had the last years before the parking garage?
> 
> Or being expelled entirely as in San Antonio or St. Louis?


There's also a big difference between having a section of the original station and being relegated to the basement or a nearby building. In Kansas City, the Amtrak area is still in the original station and is accessed by walking through the main hall. Meanwhile, there are other stations such as Pittsburgh and Indianapolis where the original main station building is now used entirely for other purposes.


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## AFriendly (Jun 7, 2021)

railiner said:


> Speaking of buses, who remembers when the chartered Greyhound that shuttled passenger's between the Cheyenne station and the train stop at Borie, Wy. _was _the station? For quite a while. The station agent even rode the bus to handle the checked baggage.
> One advantage...they did not have to make double stops on a long train...the bus took passengers to their assigned cars once the train was stopped.



Fun fact...the concrete pad on which that station in Borie once stood is still there. Its a decent place to park your car and watch/photograph Union Pacific trains as long as the weather isn't too crazy. Right across the street is a shooting range, so while you're not watching trains you get to hear plink..plink..plink.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 7, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> There's also a big difference between having a section of the original station and being relegated to the basement or a nearby building. In Kansas City, the Amtrak area is still in the original station and is accessed by walking through the main hall. Meanwhile, there are other stations such as Pittsburgh and Indianapolis where the original main station building is now used entirely for other purposes.


Agree wholeheartedly. The Indy station is a disgrace, it's in the part of the old REA space across the street (Illinois Ave) and on the other side of the viaduct from the Union Station head house. The ironic thing is they're using some of the station's original platforms, and access could probably be re-established from the Union Station side.

Using just the tracks and platforms and no part of the station qualifies as "expelled entirely" in my book, so Indy and San Antonio are in the same boat, uses the platform, but in a different and inadequate building. San Antonio's is too small and Indy's is just rank.

I am just happy they let Amtrak back in to KC Union Station after the restoration and didn't make them stay in the parking garage.


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## JayPea (Jun 7, 2021)

The station I've been least impressed with is the one in Oklahoma City. Broken windows, some boarded up, some not. A rather dismal place to wait to board a train.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 7, 2021)

IT is


JayPea said:


> The station I've been least impressed with is the one in Oklahoma City. Broken windows, some boarded up, some not. A rather dismal place to wait to board a train.


 It definitely needs some work, could be a nice little Station!


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## Cal (Jun 7, 2021)

I haven't been to the Oklahoma station in a few years now. All times I was there I didn't hang around for more than 5 minutes.


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## TinCan782 (Jun 7, 2021)

A lot of stations aren't even owned by Amtrak. "Leasing" space and putting up signage.


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## bms (Jun 7, 2021)

brianpmcdonnell17 said:


> There's also a big difference between having a section of the original station and being relegated to the basement or a nearby building. In Kansas City, the Amtrak area is still in the original station and is accessed by walking through the main hall. Meanwhile, there are other stations such as Pittsburgh and Indianapolis where the original main station building is now used entirely for other purposes.



Pittsburgh and Cleveland stations both feel like passengers are being punished. For being close to the downtowns, they are both pretty well hidden too.

Pittsburgh's Greyhound station across the street isn't half bad, they should have made it into an intermodal station for Amtrak and Greyhound when they renovated it a decade or so ago.


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## zephyr17 (Jun 7, 2021)

FrensicPic said:


> A lot of stations aren't even owned by Amtrak. "Leasing" space and putting up signage.


Outside the Northeast Corridor, I would say they own few of them.

I know for a fact that they don't own King Street in Seattle, that is owned by the City of Seattle. Portland is owned by the City of Portland. LA Union is owned by Metro. Many local stations are still owned by the railroads or the local communities with the tracks owned by the railroad. San Diego is owned by some local real estate company with the tracks owned by NCTD.


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## Oreius (Jun 8, 2021)

I believe the worst Amtrak station I’ve been to or seen is NY-Penn. Now, I have not seen the new Train Hall so I can’t say it is STILL the worst. Penn was very filthy for many years; disgusting restrooms filled with homeless people, homeless wandering around the concourse, the Amtrak waiting room had curtains that had not been replaced or vacuumed seemingly since the 70s—among other things. The boarding process is simply too chaotic; I ALWAYS procure a RedCap.


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## Oreius (Jun 8, 2021)

My parents don’t like Kissimmee or Tampa, though. They claim both stations are in “seedy” areas. However, these two stations are originals and provide an insight to the Golden Age of Rail Travel. Both stations are staffed and have security when open, so I did not feel unsafe.


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## jis (Jun 8, 2021)

Oreius said:


> I believe the worst Amtrak station I’ve been to or seen is NY-Penn. Now, I have not seen the new Train Hall so I can’t say it is STILL the worst. Penn was very filthy for many years; disgusting restrooms filled with homeless people, homeless wandering around the concourse, the Amtrak waiting room had curtains that had not been replaced or vacuumed seemingly since the 70s—among other things. The boarding process is simply too chaotic; I ALWAYS procure a RedCap.


Admittedly the Amslab at Borie was quite clean while it lasted and it had no toilets other than to walk out into the field and choose a suitable spot.


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## frequentflyer (Jun 8, 2021)

Gary Behling said:


> What do you expect? This is TEXAS!!!!



I don't know about that, Temple, FTW, Dallas are nice to name a few. Though, I still do not know why Amtrak had to leave Sunset station. What a shame.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 8, 2021)

frequentflyer said:


> I don't know about that, Temple, FTW, Dallas are nice to name a few. Though, I still do not know why Amtrak had to leave Sunset station. What a shame.


Does Dallas have another Station besides Union Station, which has Amtrak stuck in the Basement like Pittsburgh, while Wolfgang Puck Catering uses the Grand Waiting Room upstairs??


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## MARC Rider (Jun 9, 2021)

bms said:


> Pittsburgh and Cleveland stations both feel like passengers are being punished. For being close to the downtowns, they are both pretty well hidden too.
> 
> Pittsburgh's Greyhound station across the street isn't half bad, they should have made it into an intermodal station for Amtrak and Greyhound when they renovated it a decade or so ago.


Pittsburgh Station



Whoops, this is no longer used as the station. Here's the station:



Note the classy lighting effects.



A view of the inside. At least it's clean, lighted, and staffed. There is an escalator to the platform, but it's being rebuilt. There's also an elevator.


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## lizpackslight (Jun 9, 2021)

Speaking of stations, we passed by McComb, MS a day or so after the fire last week. I understand they were able to save some of the railroad memorabilia, but the building is likely a total loss. Sad.


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## railiner (Jun 10, 2021)

jis said:


> Admittedly the Amslab at Borie was quite clean while it lasted and it had no toilets other than to walk out into the field and choose a suitable spot.


The chartered Greyhound did have a restroom...and you were only on it for maybe 20 minutes, at most. If the SFZ was delayed, the bus stayed at the Cheyenne station, until the train got close...


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## jis (Jun 10, 2021)

railiner said:


> The chartered Greyhound did have a restroom...and you were only on it for maybe 20 minutes, at most. If the SFZ was delayed, the bus stayed at the Cheyenne station, until the train got close...


You missed the laughing smiley apparently  The whole thing was a joke in response to someone complaining about NYP being the worst station


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## Barb Stout (Jun 10, 2021)

lizpackslight said:


> View attachment 22849
> 
> Speaking of stations, we passed by McComb, MS a day or so after the fire last week. I understand they were able to save some of the railroad memorabilia, but the building is likely a total loss. Sad.


Is the cause of the fire known?


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## AmtrakBlue (Jun 10, 2021)

Barb Stout said:


> Is the cause of the fire known?


Arson









McComb man charged with arson in train depot fire


A man is accused of starting a fire that destroyed McComb's historic train depot, police say.




www.wapt.com


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## Willbridge (Jun 11, 2021)

railiner said:


> Speaking of buses, who remembers when the chartered Greyhound that shuttled passenger's between the Cheyenne station and the train stop at Borie, Wy. _was _the station? For quite a while. The station agent even rode the bus to handle the checked baggage.
> 
> One advantage...they did not have to make double stops on a long train...the bus took passengers to their assigned cars once the train was stopped.



Courtesy of my colleague, Jeff Dunning...


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## Chucks (Aug 6, 2021)

Oreius said:


> My parents don’t like Kissimmee or Tampa, though. They claim both stations are in “seedy” areas. However, these two stations are originals and provide an insight to the Golden Age of Rail Travel. Both stations are staffed and have security when open, so I did not feel unsafe.


Tampa, yes, very “seedy.” Kissimmee? No! It’s right in the middle of “downtown” and it’s completely safe.

[Edited to add a “fun fact” …]
I live in view of the Kissimmee Amtrak station and get to see the four daily Silvers pass through. Two of them (97/98) are scheduled over a 25-minute period. It’s fun when 91 runs late and 97/98 are closer together (and sometimes throw in a SunRail or two) and there is a “traffic jam” at this small station. Somebody has to wait for it the “mess” to clear.


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## Oreius (Aug 6, 2021)

Chucks said:


> Tampa, yes, very “seedy.” Kissimmee? No! It’s right in the middle of “downtown” and it’s completely safe.



They were scared while waiting with me in Tampa. They told me don’t you dare leave this station! And I was 38 at the time! But they had armed security present.


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## Oreius (Aug 6, 2021)

What was interesting was a group of 15-20 Amish people and kids boarded with me at Tampa. They went all the way home with me as far as Elizabethtown, PA—but stayed on until Harrisburg. They traveled in Coach.


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## Oreius (Aug 6, 2021)

I live in Amish Country, but I never knew they didn’t shun trains…


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## jis (Aug 6, 2021)

Chucks said:


> Tampa, yes, very “seedy.” Kissimmee? No! It’s right in the middle of “downtown” and it’s completely safe.


Yeah. It does stretch credulity to breaking point to think of Kissimmee station area as seedy. How long back were they there? Maybe that has something to do with the strange characterization?


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## pennyk (Aug 6, 2021)

Oreius said:


> They were scared while waiting with me in Tampa. They told me don’t you dare leave this station! And I was 38 at the time! But they had armed security present.


WOW! I go to Tampa sometimes twice a year and either walk from the Station to downtown, to Ybor City or to the Trolley. I have never felt scared or uncomfortable in the area around the station. (I am a "senior citizen" small woman). I have seen security but I do not recall security being "armed."


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## jis (Aug 6, 2021)

pennyk said:


> WOW! I go to Tampa sometimes twice a year and either walk from the Station to downtown, to Ybor City or to the Trolley. I have never felt scared or uncomfortable in the area around the station. (I am a "senior citizen" small woman). I have seen security but I do not recall security being "armed."


I have not noticed anything scary between Tampa Union Station and either Ybor City or towards the aquarium, and yes I travel there by train several times a year, specially when COVID was yet to arrive. A bit jumpy imagination I suspect.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 6, 2021)

Oreius said:


> I live in Amish Country, but I never knew they didn’t shun trains…


They are big users of trains.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 6, 2021)

Almost every long distance Amtrak trip I have ever taken has had at least some Amish passengers on it. My trips have been mostly (like 85%) west of Chicago.


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## danasgoodstuff (Aug 6, 2021)

Bob Dylan said:


> Ths once Grand Buffalo Central Terminal is the one that comes to mind when discussing decaying, poorly maintained Stations.


Buffalo Central Terminal hasn't been used by Amtrak in decades (since the '70s IIRC) and has had some restoration work done, enough to do events there. Part of the issue is that besides being far bigger than they could conceivably use now, it's not very central being well east of downtown (where most Amtrak services, other than the LSL, stop) in the neighborhood that inspired "Funky Broadway". It is a striking edifice still and I have fond memories of it from pre-Amtrak when it was still fairly busy.


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## Cal (Aug 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> They are big users of trains.


Yep. I've seen them a lot on Amtrak, even out here in SoCal they will ride the train.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 6, 2021)

Cal said:


> Yep. I've seen them a lot on Amtrak, even out here in SoCal they will ride the train.


There's a group that lives in Mexico, I think near the CA border. Some in the US use the trains to go visit family in Mexico. Some to get medical aid in Mexico.


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## Cal (Aug 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> There's a group that lives in Mexico, I think near the CA border. Some in the US use the trains to go visit family in Mexico. Some to get medical aid in Mexico.


Pretty sure I've seen some get on to head towards LA as well


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## Oreius (Aug 6, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Almost every long distance Amtrak trip I have ever taken has had at least some Amish passengers on it. My trips have been mostly (like 85%) west of Chicago.



Very interesting. I live in Lebanon County, PA. While it’s considered PA Dutch Country, the vast majority of the plain folk are Old Order Mennonite. We also have more liberal Mennonites, like “Black Bumper.” They drive all black cars and big-butt vans that usually have no stainless steel or chrome. The Old Order people still use buggies. 

Where I used to live, Warren County, PA (located near Erie), there were a substantial amount of actual Amish in the northwestern part of the county. I’ve seen Mennonites on the Keystones between Lancaster and NYP, however.

I was amazed Amish would go to a hot place like Tampa. Maybe they were taking part in a charity event.


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## pennyk (Aug 6, 2021)

Oreius said:


> I was amazed Amish would go to a hot place like Tampa. Maybe they were taking part in a charity event.



I believe from Tampa, they generally take a bus to Sarasota where there is some sort of Amish "center" (so I heard).


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## MikefromCrete (Aug 6, 2021)

Oreius said:


> Very interesting. I live in Lebanon County, PA. While it’s considered PA Dutch Country, the vast majority of the plain folk are Old Order Mennonite. We also have more liberal Mennonites, like “Black Bumper.” They drive all black cars and big-butt vans that usually have no stainless steel or chrome. The Old Order people still use buggies.
> 
> Where I used to live, Warren County, PA (located near Erie), there were a substantial amount of actual Amish in the northwestern part of the county. I’ve seen Mennonites on the Keystones between Lancaster and NYP, however.
> 
> I was amazed Amish would go to a hot place like Tampa. Maybe they were taking part in a charity event.





Oreius said:


> Very interesting. I live in Lebanon County, PA. While it’s considered PA Dutch Country, the vast majority of the plain folk are Old Order Mennonite. We also have more liberal Mennonites, like “Black Bumper.” They drive all black cars and big-butt vans that usually have no stainless steel or chrome. The Old Order people still use buggies.
> 
> Where I used to live, Warren County, PA (located near Erie), there were a substantial amount of actual Amish in the northwestern part of the county. I’ve seen Mennonites on the Keystones between Lancaster and NYP, however.
> 
> I was amazed Amish would go to a hot place like Tampa. Maybe they were taking part in a charity event.



The Amish have compounds in Mexico. Why wouldn't they travel to Florida?


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## me_little_me (Aug 6, 2021)

AmtrakBlue said:


> There's a group that lives in Mexico, I think near the CA border. Some in the US use the trains to go visit family in Mexico. Some to get medical aid in Mexico.


Many get off in El Paso and take buses/vans there to go to Mexico for medical treatment. I've seen and talked with them on the Sunset Limited while traveling to El Paso myself.

Those who were first timers were shocked to see giant fenced areas with only a few cows in West Texas as they are used to small areas with lots of them. I told them that the sparsity of vegetation and water meant you count the number of acres per cow rather than the number of cows per acre. The better off ones were in sleepers but many traveled in coach. Much cheaper to take a train to El Paso and van into Mexico for operations than to pay for an operation in the U.S. when you don't have insurance. One man about my age and his wife were traveling for her cancer operation.


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## Oreius (Aug 7, 2021)

I never knew Amish or other Plain Community members would go to Mexico. Especially since our healthcare it top notch here in the US.


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 7, 2021)

Oreius said:


> I never knew Amish or other Plain Community members would go to Mexico. Especially since our healthcare it top notch here in the US.


Top notch cost $$$$$$$$$ They do not have health insurance, so they go where they can get care at a price they can pay.


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## neroden (Aug 8, 2021)

I do find myself wondering what Amtrak is going to do about Deming. Deming is a *_problem_* due to the lack of platform; it probably is the worst station on the system by any reasonable measure.


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## Cal (Aug 9, 2021)

neroden said:


> I do find myself wondering what Amtrak is going to do about Deming. Deming is a *_problem_* due to the lack of platform; it probably is the worst station on the system by any reasonable measure.


Multiple stations on the sunset route are just as developed as Deming.

and what about Thurmond, where there’s not even a town to go to in case of a late train?


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## neroden (Aug 9, 2021)

Cal said:


> Multiple stations on the sunset route are just as developed as Deming.
> 
> and what about Thurmond, where there’s not even a town to go to in case of a late train?


All the others have platforms, though. "Board from a grade crossing while the train blocks the grade crossing" is currently unique to Deming.


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## west point (Aug 9, 2021)

IMO Stations need to be in some arbitrary categories based on number of passengers. The first would be those under average of 20; Then 40 which is also the break point of staffed stations.; Next have no idea maybe 100 tThen then above that ?


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 9, 2021)

frequentflyer said:


> I don't know about that, Temple, FTW, Dallas are nice to name a few. Though, I still do not know why Amtrak had to leave Sunset station. What a shame.


We've been over this before. Amtrak did not have millions of dollars to rehabilitate Sunset Station and it was deteriorating beyond their ability to maintain it. 



Oreius said:


> I never knew Amish or other Plain Community members would go to Mexico. Especially since our healthcare it top notch here in the US.


Being top notch doesn't mean much when tens of millions cannot afford it and must wait until a medical condition reaches a critical state to receive care.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 9, 2021)

frequentflyer said:


> I don't know about that, Temple, FTW, Dallas are nice to name a few. Though, I still do not know why Amtrak had to leave Sunset station. What a shame.


I disagree about Dallas. The "Real" Waiting Room is Upstairs occupied by Wolfgang Puck Catering.

Amtrak is located in the Dark Basement (just like. PIttsburgh's dungeon,), with a few hard wooden benches and Vending Machines, and guarded by Security Guards and only Open to Amtrak Ticket Holders, since Union Staion is also an Internodel Station shared with DART and TRE.


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## Cal (Aug 9, 2021)

neroden said:


> All the others have platforms, though. "Board from a grade crossing while the train blocks the grade crossing" is currently unique to Deming.


I am almost positive it’s the same situation in Thurmond and I know for sure it’s the same in lordsburg. Benson isn’t much better with a tiny slab of concrete smaller than the grade crossing.


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## frequentflyer (Aug 9, 2021)

Devil's Advocate said:


> We've been over this before. Amtrak did not have millions of dollars to rehabilitate Sunset Station and it was deteriorating beyond their ability to maintain it.
> 
> 
> Being top notch doesn't mean much when tens of millions cannot afford it and must wait until a medical condition reaches a critical state to receive care.



Seeing how many historic restored stations around the nation that Amtrak leases space out of. Its a shame Amtrak could find a partner to develop ESPEE and stay. Seeing Amtrak other moves here in Texas, must not have been a big priority to stay.


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## jis (Aug 9, 2021)

Amtrak's priorities inevitably depend opn the level of enthusiasm or lack thereof, of the local politicians.


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## OlympianHiawatha (Aug 10, 2021)

While I have not been through it in several years and am in no hurry to do so again, San Antonio (SAS) has been an absolute dumpster fire. It is in a very bad part of town, has hard molded plastic chairs in a harshly lit room with an overpriced vending machine and informercial TV roaring away. And since SAS's train action is all late night, so much the worse.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 10, 2021)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> While I have not been through it in several years and am in no hurry to do so again, San Antonio (SAS) has been an absolute dumpster fire. It is in a very bad part of town, has hard molded plastic chairs in a harshly lit room with an overpriced vending machine and informercial TV roaring away. And since SAS's train action is all late night, so much the worse.


The worst of the Big City Stations with Houston in Second Place!


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## frequentflyer (Aug 10, 2021)

OlympianHiawatha said:


> While I have not been through it in several years and am in no hurry to do so again, San Antonio (SAS) has been an absolute dumpster fire. It is in a very bad part of town, has hard molded plastic chairs in a harshly lit room with an overpriced vending machine and informercial TV roaring away. And since SAS's train action is all late night, so much the worse.



The neighborhood is not that bad, the area around ESPEE is getting redeveloped so the atmosphere will improve. The old Amshack design panned for it being generic felt more cozy than SAT's station. Because all of Amtrak's action is at night may be the problem.









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## TrackWalker (Aug 10, 2021)

west point said:


> IMO Stations need to be in some arbitrary categories based on number of passengers. The first would be those under average of 20; Then 40 which is also the break point of staffed stations.; Next have no idea maybe 100 tThen then above that ?











Amtrak Standard Stations Program - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## neroden (Aug 10, 2021)

Cal said:


> I am almost positive it’s the same situation in Thurmond and I know for sure it’s the same in lordsburg. Benson isn’t much better with a tiny slab of concrete smaller than the grade crossing.


There's a platform in Thurmond, though it's just asphalt at track level. It's not the grade crossing itself. There are active plans and designs for building a better concrete platform, last I heard being negotiated with the National Park Service over historic preservation questions.









Thurmond Depot - New River Gorge National Park & Preserve (U.S. National Park Service)







www.nps.gov





You're right, Lordsburg is in the same state as Deming. I will add it to my list of not-finished-with-ADA-compliance stations.


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## frequentflyer (Aug 10, 2021)

TrackWalker said:


> Amtrak Standard Stations Program - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the walk down memory lane for some of those "standard" stations.


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## me_little_me (Aug 10, 2021)

neroden said:


> You're right, Lordsburg is in the same state as Deming. I will add it to my list of not-finished-with-ADA-compliance stations.


But neither of them are in the country. If you don't believe me, ask the Deming/Lordsburg locals to tell their stories about "one of Our 50 is Missing" or read the last page of any issue of New Mexico Magazine.

I even have one. After Officer Training School, I returned home on leave and to arrange having my baggage sent to my first duty station. My parents had a party and invited all the relatives. When asked where I was going, I told them Albuquerque, New Mexico. At least one of the relatives said "I didn't know the United States had bases in that country". Yes, folks, American Geography and History were apparently not taught in those days either. And it hasn't changed since.


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## Cal (Aug 10, 2021)

neroden said:


> There's a platform in Thurmond, though it's just asphalt at track level. It's not the grade crossing itself. There are active plans and designs for building a better concrete platform, last I heard being negotiated with the National Park Service over historic preservation questions.




I don't think they use it, according to this video.


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## neroden (Aug 11, 2021)

Cal said:


> I don't think they use it, according to this video.



They're on the wrong track, too! Oy gevalt. CSX causing trouble?


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## Cal (Aug 11, 2021)

neroden said:


> They're on the wrong track, too! Oy gevalt. CSX causing trouble?


I don't think they ever use the track closest to the building, it's in terrible shape.


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## west point (Aug 11, 2021)

Yep street platform boarding.


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## tim49424 (Aug 11, 2021)

Worst station? Tomah, Wisconsin, by far. It's an old freight depot, I believe, and they've only used part of it for the Amtrak passengers. That part would consist of a very drab waiting area with a handful of seats and two bathrooms. During the summer, the weather there can get into the 90s and there is no air circulation inside and there are many flies. Outdoors, there is a bench to sit on, but it's not much better, unless you have a pretty constant breeze, otherwise you have to deal with mosquitoes. If you have any lengthy wait and are sitting on that bench, the occasional freight train will create a nice diesel smelling breeze for you. They've made slight improvements to the station, to comply with ADA regulations but nothing more. It's a pit of a station that I used to call my boarding station as I used to live 90 minutes north of there. I've been back there once since I moved back to Michigan in 2014 and just my luck, the Empire Builder was running five hours behind and it was a sunny day, no clouds in the sky and the heat index was in the upper 90s.


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## Cal (Aug 11, 2021)

tim49424 said:


> Worst station? Tomah, Wisconsin, by far. It's an old freight depot, I believe, and they've only used part of it for the Amtrak passengers. That part would consist of a very drab waiting area with a handful of seats and two bathrooms. During the summer, the weather there can get into the 90s and there is no air circulation inside and there are many flies. Outdoors, there is a bench to sit on, but it's not much better, unless you have a pretty constant breeze, otherwise you have to deal with mosquitoes. If you have any lengthy wait and are sitting on that bench, the occasional freight train will create a nice diesel smelling breeze for you. They've made slight improvements to the station, to comply with ADA regulations but nothing more. It's a pit of a station that I used to call my boarding station as I used to live 90 minutes north of there. I've been back there once since I moved back to Michigan in 2014 and just my luck, the Empire Builder was running five hours behind and it was a sunny day, no clouds in the sky and the heat index was in the upper 90s.


Would you rather have a poor station building or no station building?


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## zephyr17 (Aug 12, 2021)

tim49424 said:


> Worst station? Tomah, Wisconsin, by far.


Worst by far? Worse even than a grade crossing in the New Mexico desert with no platform, and just a sign? Welcome to Lordsburg, New Mexico.

Sounds bad, yes. Worst by far? Nope.


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## tim49424 (Aug 12, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> Worst by far? Worse even than a grade crossing in the New Mexico desert with no platform, and just a sign? Welcome to Lordsburg, New Mexico.
> 
> Sounds bad, yes. Worst by far? Nope.



What you’re describing isn’t a station. It’s a station stop without a building.


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## tim49424 (Aug 12, 2021)

Cal said:


> Would you rather have a poor station building or no station building?



In this case none. I just am grateful to have my bland home station in Holland, which actually has ample room for passengers indoors and out, vending machine, full bathrooms and easy boarding. I’ll never take that place for granted, that’s for sure, especially having had to board in Tomah. When I used to live in Wisconsin and board there, most of the time I’d sit in my car rather than in the station. The last time I was there, I actually was visiting and didn’t have that choice.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 12, 2021)

tim49424 said:


> What you’re describing isn’t a station.


It is a station stop. Therefore it is a station. It has exactly the same services as Tomah, zero. No agent, no ticketing, no baggage. The only service is Amtrak trains stop and open their doors. I'd be hard pressed to call one a "station" and the other not.

PS, by strict definition a "station" is a defined point on a railroad. It isn't a building. Both Lordsburg and Tomah are defined points where Amtrak trains stop to board and detrain passengers, and therefore are "stations". Again, by strict definition, if there is a building at a station, is a "depot".


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## tim49424 (Aug 12, 2021)

zephyr17 said:


> It is a station stop. Therefore it is a station. It has exactly the same services as Tomah, zero. No agent, no ticketing, no baggage. The only service is Amtrak trains stop and open their doors. I'd be hard pressed to call one a "station" and the other not.
> 
> PS, by strict definition a "station" is a defined point on a railroad. It isn't a building. Both Lordsburg and Tomah are defined points where Amtrak trains stop to board and detrain passengers, and therefore are "stations". Again, by strict definition, if there is a building at a station, is a "depot".



I’ve never been to Lourdsburg so I don’t have any way of debating this, nor do I really care to, but I’ve been at Tomah station dozens of times and can say how deeply miserable an experience it can be if the train is running behind. I’m so glad I don’t have to do that again. If I return to Central Wisconsin via Amtrak I’ll book for Wisconsin Dells.

There was a plan, back when the stimulus package was passed back around ten or so years ago, to build a new station in a mini mall across the tracks. Walgreens had already signed on to the project and then the governor decided to decline the money. I should have learned that if something is too good to be true, it likely isn’t.


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## Cal (Aug 12, 2021)

tim49424 said:


> I’ve never been to Lourdsburg so I don’t have any way of debating this, nor do I really care to, but I’ve been at Tomah station dozens of times and can say how deeply miserable an experience it can be if the train is running behind.


I'm sure it isn't pleasant, however I'm sure your experience will be a lot worse if the train is running hours late and you're boarding in Thurmond, WV. Can't even get to a nearby place to get something to eat. 

My point is the same as @zephyr17's. Sounds bad, yes. Worst by far? Nope.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 12, 2021)

I'm with Cal, yes, it sounds bad. Worst? It definitely has competition for that. Thurmond seems like a leading candidate. At Lordsburg and Deming, there are at least some businesses within walking distance. I'll throw Elko in, two separate Amsheds for westbound and eastbound, closest open businesses at the zero dark thirty train times there are probably at the I 80 interchange, a 3 mile walk away.


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## tim49424 (Aug 12, 2021)

Cal said:


> I'm sure it isn't pleasant, however I'm sure your experience will be a lot worse if the train is running hours late and you're boarding in Thurmond, WV. Can't even get to a nearby place to get something to eat.
> 
> My point is the same as @zephyr17's. Sounds bad, yes. Worst by far? Nope.



To each their own. I will stand on my opinion, which is just that. An opinion. Again, I can't compare it to Thurmond because I've never been there.


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## zephyr17 (Aug 12, 2021)

Don't disagree that it is clearly the worst station you've been to.


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 12, 2021)

Deming and Lordsburg may be among the least functional stops on the Amtrak network but they also seemed to fit the relatively remote and desolate areas in which they reside and neither disappointed me as much as Madison Square Dungeon. Calling that dump "Penn Station" is an insult which I cannot abide.


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## BCL (Aug 13, 2021)

Qapla said:


> Since the Texarkana station straddles the state line - who owns the station? Amtrak? Texas? Arkansas?
> 
> 
> 
> It may not be up to Amtrak to be able to do the much needed repairs, maintenance and cleaning.


Nobody mentioned it in the 4 pages so far, so I'll give it a shot.

The owner is the Texarkana Urban Transit District, which is a joint bus transit district across state lines. They mostly operate bus service and there's nothing on their website that indicates that they're responsible for the station building.






T-Line Transit Center - Texarkana, TX | T-Line Transit Service


MASKS ARE STILL REQUIRED TO RIDE THE BUS, PER CDC […]




www.t-linebus.org


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## Willbridge (Aug 22, 2021)

jis said:


> Amtrak's priorities inevitably depend upon the level of enthusiasm or lack thereof, of the local politicians.



Absolutely correct. Denver Union Station was headed to being the atrium for twin office towers under the Federico Peña mayorship. A huge parking lot was proposed. Trains were to stop at an Amshack in Commerce City or at various single-track railyard locations under study. Due to term limits, the DUS project was completed under the third mayor after Peña.

My favorite, though, was Quebec City. The same mayor took credit for getting the trains out of town and then for the project of putting them back.


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## PaTrainFan (Aug 22, 2021)

Willbridge said:


> My favorite, though, was Quebec City. The same mayor took credit for getting the trains out of town and then for the project of putting them back.



Typical. There will be Repuplicans who voted against the infrastruture bill lining up at groundbreaking and ribbon cutting ceremonies when the money starts flowing.


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## Willbridge (Aug 22, 2021)

PaTrainFan said:


> Typical. There will be Republicans who voted against the infrastructure bill lining up at groundbreaking and ribbon cutting ceremonies when the money starts flowing.


Don't get me started. I learned a long time ago that the names on a bronze dedication plaque don't always represent who should have been honored. For a while one of my miscellaneous duties at Edmonton Transit was getting things named.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 23, 2021)

PaTrainFan said:


> Typical. There will be Repuplicans who voted against the infrastruture bill lining up at groundbreaking and ribbon cutting ceremonies when the money starts flowing.


This reminds me of one of my favorite stories that LBJ used to tell.

A teacher was applying for a job with a New School and the Principal asked them if they taught that the World was Flat or Round.

"..After thinking for a minute, the teacher said " I can teach it either way..!"


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## gtalum (Oct 10, 2021)

Oreius said:


> My parents don’t like Kissimmee or Tampa, though. They claim both stations are in “seedy” areas. However, these two stations are originals and provide an insight to the Golden Age of Rail Travel. Both stations are staffed and have security when open, so I did not feel unsafe.



Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Tampa Union Station used to be in a pretty bad area, but gentrification is rapidly approaching and in many cases is already surrounding it. It's pretty convenient to both downtown and to Ybor City (our "old town" and nightlife district).


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## jis (Oct 10, 2021)

gtalum said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Tampa Union Station used to be in a pretty bad area, but gentrification is rapidly approaching and in many cases is already surrounding it. It's pretty convenient to both downtown and to Ybor City (our "old town" and nightlife district.


And it has a Publix close to it now, so that you can get excellent sandwiches and such from the Deli department. Very convenient.


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## gtalum (Oct 10, 2021)

jis said:


> And it has a Publix close to it now, so that you can get excellent sandwiches and such from the Deli department. Very convenient.



There's nothing like a Pub sub.


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## 20th Century Rider (Oct 10, 2021)

cocojacoby said:


> I couldn't believe the condition of the Amtrak station in this video at 23 minutes in. Seriously Amtrak? How embarrassing . . . and maybe even dangerous. Is there another station worse than this?



Yup... just got off the TE yesterday... and remember that station... and the food... or lack thereof. You are so on point with both the food service and shabby run down equipment. Although some disagree with my point of view... the Superliners are poorly designed to begin with... especially the stairwell where seniors slip and fall as they try to get bags up and down. The bottom level is referred by many as the 'dungeon.' 

Amtrak is starving and dwindling away from lack of funds and lack of good management.


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## TrackWalker (Oct 10, 2021)

Ah, yes. Texarcana.

During my adventure on the TE last spring we stopped there on a foggy night.

I thought I was a minor character in Stephen King’s short story “Willa.”


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## Cal (Oct 10, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> The bottom level is referred by many as the 'dungeon.'


First time I've heard it being called the 'dungeon', although I've heard NY Penn being called that many times.


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## dlagrua (Oct 10, 2021)

Over the years we've arrived and departed from some small "Amshacks" but we must look at the overall picture. A congress that never supported and funded the service as they should have , management that is hostile to long distance rail, does not emphasize customer service, avoids marketing and looks to provide the cheapest bad tasting food while charging sky high sleeper prices. Is there even a plan for investing on the Western routes to improve them? If new Superliners are not put in the plan soon, LD travel will just fade away. As for that "regional rail" plan that we always hear about, where will the freight RR tracks be made available to expand that service?


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## Carolyn Jane (Oct 11, 2021)

About that station in Tampa... Yes, it is a classic design...But we arrived there back in 2017 via AmBus, and there was nothing. We couldn't even get a cab to our hotel. The hotel finally had to send us the bus they use as a shuttle for a small fee. Calling for a taxi got us nowhere. CJ


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## AmtrakMaineiac (Oct 11, 2021)

20th Century Rider said:


> the Superliners are poorly designed to begin with... especially the stairwell where seniors slip and fall as they try to get bags up and down. The bottom level is referred by many as the 'dungeon.'



Besides the dungeon there is also the "coffin" aka the top bunk in the SL roomette.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 11, 2021)

AmtrakMaineiac said:


> Besides the dungeon there is also the "coffin" aka the top bunk in the SL roomette.


And there are "coffins" down in the "dungeon" .

This is evolving into the perfect Halloween thread.


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## jamess (Oct 13, 2021)

Fun fact about Texarkana. The county it is in (Miiller County) has the lowest covid vaccination rate in the country, at 13% as of October 11,


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## gtalum (Oct 13, 2021)

Carolyn Jane said:


> About that station in Tampa... Yes, it is a classic design...But we arrived there back in 2017 via AmBus, and there was nothing. We couldn't even get a cab to our hotel. The hotel finally had to send us the bus they use as a shuttle for a small fee. Calling for a taxi got us nowhere. CJ



The area is much different today than it was in 2017. Just look at Google maps. Development is starting to surround the station where there was nothing but empty lots and dangerous housing projects before.

Downtown and the Channel District in Tampa have gone through explosive development in the last few years, largely because of Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeffrey Vinik. The station sits kind of in a corner formed by the two areas. It's also just a few blocks from Ybor City, our old town and a major nightlife district.


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## Cal (Oct 13, 2021)

jamess said:


> Fun fact about Texarkana. The county it is in (Miiller County) has the lowest covid vaccination rate in the country, at 13% as of October 11,


I wouldn't describe that fact as "fun"


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