# how far can we go?



## NE933 (Oct 3, 2012)

The U. S.'s standard gauge track connects with Canada and most of Mexico's standard tracks.

How far down into South America can a standard gauge rail vehicle/aka train, theoretically (i.e. without border stoppage, all necessary fuel and passes, etc.) ultimately go? I've asked this question to several friends and they have guessed the Panama Canal would be the dead end of an all-rail travel that would begin in the U. S., then first enter Mexico, and then go from there.

Now for the logical opposite question: how far up North? Do standard gauge tracks go as far as, say, the North Pole?

Let's assume there will be no use of railbarges or other watercraft that can carry railcars or locomotives; it is strictly an all-and-by-rail routing.

Hmmmm...


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## VentureForth (Oct 3, 2012)

My gut answer is Moosonee, Ontario. I don't think there is any physical rail link between Vancouver and White Pass / White Horse.

Some googling got me further north to near Meadow Lake, SK. Can't verify tracks are still there. Maybe Rycroft, AB.

I think we have a winner - Fort Nelson, AB.


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## zephyr17 (Oct 3, 2012)

NE933 said:


> The U. S.'s standard gauge track connects with Canada and most of Mexico's standard tracks.
> 
> How far down into South America can a standard gauge rail vehicle/aka train, theoretically (i.e. without border stoppage, all necessary fuel and passes, etc.) ultimately go? I've asked this question to several friends and they have guessed the Panama Canal would be the dead end of an all-rail travel that would begin in the U. S., then first enter Mexico, and then go from there.
> 
> ...


The North American rail grid goes into Central America, but not as far as the canal, not sure it makes it to Panama, I think it does make it to Costa Rica. To the north, stadard gauge goes as far north as Churchill, MB on Hudson Bay. Also, north of Prince George, BC, the Tumbler Ridge extension of BC Rail (now shutdown). The Alaska RR is isolated from the rest of the grid and is only accessible by rail cars by barge.

Edit: Churchill is a more northern latitude than Moosonee. No rail connections to Yukon Territory at all, save the WP&Y, which is narrow-gauge and isolated.


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## Michael P (Oct 3, 2012)

NE933 said:


> The U. S.'s standard gauge track connects with Canada and most of Mexico's standard tracks.
> 
> How far down into South America can a standard gauge rail vehicle/aka train, theoretically (i.e. without border stoppage, all necessary fuel and passes, etc.) ultimately go? I've asked this question to several friends and they have guessed the Panama Canal would be the dead end of an all-rail travel that would begin in the U. S., then first enter Mexico, and then go from there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Central_America

Basically(based on above article) all the central american countries besides Panama use or have used primarily a narrower gauge, so sorry kiddo ends somewhere in Mexico.



> Now for the logical opposite question: how far up North? Do standard gauge tracks go as far as, say, the North Pole?


We do know that VIA rail and Ontario Northland still run trains up pretty north in Manitoba(VIA) or Ontario(Northland), there is no standard gauge in the Yukon or Nauvaut it seems, the Northwest Territories does have a line

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Railroads-Canada-frame.png


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## VentureForth (Oct 4, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> NE933 said:
> 
> 
> > The U. S.'s standard gauge track connects with Canada and most of Mexico's standard tracks.
> ...


Looks like Churchill is barely 1 minute (0.02 degrees) north of Fort Nelson. Good job. AND it's serviced by passenger rail! I can get there in 5 days, 1 hour and $700. In coach (!)


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## cirdan (Oct 4, 2012)

Great responses.

Looking beyond the question of gauge, how far is it theoretically possible to travel by rail? Changes of gauge are allowed, are as rail barges. But just how far does the contiguous rail network stretch?

I understzand many of the Latin American lines are standalone and don't connect to anything else.


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## jis (Oct 4, 2012)

zephyr17 said:


> The North American rail grid goes into Central America, but not as far as the canal, not sure it makes it to Panama, I think it does make it to Costa Rica.


Costa Rica is not standard gauge. It is Cape Gauge (3' 6") and its railway is not connected to any railway either north or south of Costa Rica. Mostly it is service around San Jose and freight service down to the west shore. They are actively reconstructing their railway as we speak. But nothing that connects to anything outside Costa Rica yet. So you currently cannot get to Costa Rica by rail from Mexico.

There is an inactive connection between Mexico and Guatemala with a gauge break. There is no rail connection from Guatemala to Belize or Honduras. The connection to El Salvador is inactive.

Honduras has Cape Gauge railway with no connection to adjacent countries. Nicaragua used to have a Cape Gauge railway not connected to any adjacent country, but it is all defunct now.

So practically you cannot get any further than Mexico to the south.

There is a grand plan called FERISTAto build a railraod route all the way to the Canal from Mexico, but at present nothing is happening


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## caravanman (Oct 4, 2012)

Hi,

One of my favourite travel writers has a book about his train trip from Boston to South America. I don't remember which trains he took, or whether they are all still running. I know that not all the lines joined up, but nevertheless an interesting odyssey. The Old Patagonian Express

Paul Theroux is also very well known for his "Great Railway Bazaar" book, a train ride from London to Japan, an insiration to many of my age to take to the rails!

Ed


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## George Harris (Oct 4, 2012)

You can get as far south as Tecua Uman (sp?) on Mexico-Guatemala border. The railroad on the Guatemala side is out of service/abandoned/removed. This point was always the end of the standard gauge network, anyway. The Guatemala railroads were/are 36 inch gauge.


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## Nathanael (Oct 5, 2012)

cirdan said:


> Great responses.
> 
> Looking beyond the question of gauge, how far is it theoretically possible to travel by rail? Changes of gauge are allowed, are as rail barges. But just how far does the contiguous rail network stretch?


The answer is quite simple: you can get to Ciudad Hidalgo, Mexico, and that's it.

The Guatamalan network is in terrible shape. The line connecting to the Mexican border has been closed -- no freight or passenger traffic -- since 1996. This was the *only* line which connected at the southern border of Mexico (Belize never had any).

Now for the past.

Wikipedia is your friend. There was once a route from Mexico as far as El Salvador. Guatamala and El Salvador used to have an integrated network of narrow-gauge trains (originally mostly built by United Fruit Company). Guatamala lost everything in 1996, though there was some limited freight service from 1999-2007. El Salvador lost everything in 2002 and has since brought back a single suburban service.

Nicaragua's railways (again, United Fruit mostly) never fully ran through, but if you count the train ferry across Lake Nicaragua, then you could get to the Costa Rican border. I'm not 100% sure whether it connected to the El Salvador border, but I think so. Nicaragua lost most of their railway network in 1993 and the last line was ripped up in 2001.

Honduras's lines were never connected to anyone else's and several have been continnuously operating.

I'm having trouble finding accurate information on Costa Rica's railroad history, but it seems that no railroad was ever built to the northern border. Costa Rica lost everything in 1995 but has brought several services back since 2000.

The Panama Canal Railway is still operating but has never been connected to anything else. The other Panamanian railways were again United Fruit operations, were disconnected from the Panama Canal Railway and each other, and have all been shut down (though the dates are not clear to me).

Moving into South America, Colombia and Venezuela never linked to anyone except each other. Peru and Ecuador never linked to any of their neighbors at all.

This no doubt seems odd -- all these railways and so few connections. However, the history of all of these railway networks is one of connecting from inland to the sea. The ocean was the preferred means of transport, and the railway was simply a means of getting from mountain to ocean. They never made the leap to considering trains as a primary method of transportation. In all of these countries from Guatamala south, waterway transport remained primary until gasoline cars and paved roads took over -- and waterway transport remains very important to all of Central and South America.

Bolivia, being landlocked, had a much more extensive system of international rail connections than any other country in the New World south of Mexico.


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## Nathanael (Oct 5, 2012)

So, after that long discourse on the history of railways in Latin America, I conclude that the more interesting question is what the current state of the *shipping* network looks like. (For example, how far can you get by passenger ship, avoiding land vehicles?)


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## Texan Eagle (Oct 6, 2012)

Nathanael said:


> So, after that long discourse on the history of railways in Latin America, I conclude that the more interesting question is what the current state of the *shipping* network looks like. (For example, how far can you get by passenger ship, avoiding land vehicles?)


By a commercially operated passenger ship?

If you have your own ship, you can go virtually as far as anywhere you want to go. If you have all the necessary permissions (or want to be a pirate and not care a damn about rules), you can set sail from any port in the United States and reach almost any other sea port* in the world without having to use land vehicles.

(* Not counting ports on land locked seas)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 6, 2012)

Isn't there a rail line to Hay River?


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## NS VIA Fan (Oct 7, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> Isn't there a rail line to Hay River?


Yes, in the Northwest Territories, at the end of a CN line extending 1000 km north of Edmonton, Alberta.

http://hayriver.com/

Hay River is a port on the south shore of Great Slave Lake where cargo is reloaded on barges for the crossing to Yellowknife, NWT.

In the '80s, Train Magazine had an article about a passenger excursion to Hay River using several Private Rail Cars. 

……and for anyone who has seen "Ice Pilots" on TV…..Hay River is where Buffalo Airways flies their scheduled DC-3 out of to Yellowknife.


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## Nightrider (Oct 7, 2012)

NE933 said:


> Now for the logical opposite question: how far up North? Do standard gauge tracks go as far as, say, the North Pole?
> 
> Hmmmm...


Sure, but it is limited to the Christmas season. It is called "The Polar Express", and Tom Hanks is the conductor....


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## Anthony (Oct 7, 2012)

I didn't see any mentions of the train from Sept-Iles, QC to Schefferville, QC. Churchill still beats it from a northern perspective.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Oct 7, 2012)

I think the Hay River line is the northernmost, not Churchill or Fort Nelson.


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## NS VIA Fan (Oct 8, 2012)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> I think the Hay River line is the northernmost, not Churchill or Fort Nelson.


Hay River: 60.83N

Fort Nelson: 58.80N

Churchill: 58.78N

Shefferville: 54.80N


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## George Harris (Oct 8, 2012)

Anthony said:


> I didn't see any mentions of the train from Sept-Iles, QC to Schefferville, QC. Churchill still beats it from a northern perspective.


Remember the original question:



NE933 said:


> The U. S.'s standard gauge track connects with Canada and most of Mexico's standard tracks.
> 
> . . . .
> 
> Let's assume there will be no use of railbarges or other watercraft that can carry railcars or locomotives; it is strictly an all-and-by-rail routing.


The Sept-Iles, QC to Schefferville, QC has no rail connection to the rest of the world.


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