# 1933 Prices



## MrFSS (Nov 21, 2009)

I recently came into possession of some old timetables. The earliest of the group is a Lackawanna from 1933. While that railroad didn't have coast to coast trains, you could buy a coast to coast ticket that would be used on multiply railroads to get you there.

Here are some interesting sleeper costs from 1933.

Not that from Hoboken (New York City essentially) to Chicago you could ride in a lower for $9.00 on top of the coach fare. This table doesn't show the coach fares, but they can't be that much in 1933.

Check out the coast to coast fares for sleepers.


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## the_traveler (Nov 21, 2009)

Hey, I can go from Hoboken to PDX for only $26.10!



But that would only give me 100 AGR points! 

 No Deal!


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 21, 2009)

Good lord! Some of those prices with today's prices...


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## gswager (Nov 21, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> Good lord! Some of those prices with today's prices...


What's the today's price with inflation rate?


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## MrFSS (Nov 21, 2009)

gswager said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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> 
> > Good lord! Some of those prices with today's prices...
> ...


From a value of the dollar web site:

$1.00 in 1933 had about the same buying power as $16.05 in 2009.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks Tom, always interesting to see the oldies! Of course not a lot of folks had the $$ to ride in Pullmans in these times hence the popularity of Chair cars aka Day Coaches. If Im not mistaken these prices didnt include meals in the diner which were pretty fancy in those days @ a great package price based on other things Ive seen!Im attracted to the Parlor Car seats, a pretty good deal Buffalo to Chicago !!! 

Still lots of fun to see this kind of stuff, we appreciate those of you with the collections sharing it with us!


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## Ryan (Nov 22, 2009)

gswager said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > Good lord! Some of those prices with today's prices...
> ...


The traveller's $26 dollar fare just became $419 - still a hell of a deal! Add in $40 a day for meals (I'm assuming $20 for dinner and $10 for breakfast and lunch), x2 people, x3 days and that becomes $660. Don't think that you can even get a low bucket roomette for that! (Of course an upper berth probably isn't the same as a roomette - would the drawing room be roughly equivalent to a bedroom today?)


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## AlanB (Nov 22, 2009)

HokieNav said:


> gswager said:
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> 
> > ALC_Rail_Writer said:
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Low bucket roomette from NYP to PDX is $634 today; including railfare.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 22, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Thanks Tom, always interesting to see the oldies! Of course not a lot of folks had the $$ to ride in Pullmans in these times hence the popularity of Chair cars aka Day Coaches. If Im not mistaken these prices didnt include meals in the diner which were pretty fancy in those days @ a great package price based on other things Ive seen!Im attracted to the Parlor Car seats, a pretty good deal Buffalo to Chicago !!!
> Still lots of fun to see this kind of stuff, we appreciate those of you with the collections sharing it with us!


It is correct that meals were not included in the past. In fact they were not even included in all of Amtrak's past. I stand to be corrected as to the date but I sorta kinda think Amtrak started including meals in sleepers about the mid or late 80's.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 22, 2009)

Bill Haithcoat said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Tom, always interesting to see the oldies! Of course not a lot of folks had the $$ to ride in Pullmans in these times hence the popularity of Chair cars aka Day Coaches. If Im not mistaken these prices didnt include meals in the diner which were pretty fancy in those days @ a great package price based on other things Ive seen!Im attracted to the Parlor Car seats, a pretty good deal Buffalo to Chicago !!!
> ...


Thanks Bill, I believe it was you who posted the great meals deals on the old Southern Trains (was it the CHI-NOL route?)back in the day! I recall riding on the Crescent in the late 80s from WAS-ATL and meals werent included with my Slumbercoach, not sure about the real sleepers?

This reminds me of the book about Pullmans and the crews who worked them back in the bad old days ("Rising from the Rails" I believe it was!).As I said before, I can picture riding in the Parlor Car and going up to the diner to have a meal fit for royality, talk about a pleasant fantasy!Thats probably why my first ride on the old SP Sunset Ltd. with meals in a real diner is still one of the highlights of my life!


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 22, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
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Jim, I am not sure if I was the poster you have in mind or not. One of the more recent posts I rememger being involved in concerned the King's Dinner on the Panama Limited, an Illinois Central train from Chicago to NOL.

True, meals were never included in slumbercoach. Since your Crescent trip was in the late 80's I guess they were included in sleeper then.

About the Sunset Limited, it had themes for both its diner and its lounge. The diner had a bird/nature theme from James Audobon, a Louisiana naturalist, painter of birds, etc. The lounge had a French Quarter theme. I am an animal lover and happen to have one of Audobon's bird books, a large beautiful book, had it since childhood.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 22, 2009)

My experience is that Amtrak's sleeper prices, low bucket, are in line with what things cost pre-Amtrak, for the most part, or slightly cheaper, when inflation is taken into account.

Coach, fare, though, is much much much cheaper on Amtrak then pre-Amtrak, NEC excluded.


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## Bob Dylan (Nov 22, 2009)

That was it Bill. the Kings dinner! What a feast! Enjoyed the reference to the diner and lounge on the Sunset, I thought as a kid it was the fanciest thing Id ever seen since I was used to Chair cars with Linoleum floors, no A/C and Steam Engines with stops @ every burg in West Texas and it was wonderful!


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## Larry H. (Nov 23, 2009)

I also brought up the Kings Dinner at one point a while back. We used to ride the Panama Limited now and then towards the last of the Illinois Central days.

Those fares are as I have often stated. The prices of sleepers were no where near the cost differential of today. It was a service to those who wished to spend a bit more to have a place to sleep with some nicer surroundings. We often used the Parlor car or Sleepers and they were very reasonable no matter the way people today defend the current price structure. Again i think the last time I looked at it, these cost of maybe half the cost of the coach for a sleeper to upgrade is comparable with fares today being 8 times the cost of coach on a good day.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 24, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I also brought up the Kings Dinner at one point a while back. We used to ride the Panama Limited now and then towards the last of the Illinois Central days.
> Those fares are as I have often stated. The prices of sleepers were no where near the cost differential of today. It was a service to those who wished to spend a bit more to have a place to sleep with some nicer surroundings. We often used the Parlor car or Sleepers and they were very reasonable no matter the way people today defend the current price structure. Again i think the last time I looked at it, these cost of maybe half the cost of the coach for a sleeper to upgrade is comparable with fares today being 8 times the cost of coach on a good day.



I, too, kind of remember coach being about half of sleeper. Of course you have to be careful with that formula since there were more kinds of rooms than today and the cost between each room would have been considered significant in yesterday's dollars.


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## Green Maned Lion (Nov 25, 2009)

Larry H. said:


> I also brought up the Kings Dinner at one point a while back. We used to ride the Panama Limited now and then towards the last of the Illinois Central days.
> Those fares are as I have often stated. The prices of sleepers were no where near the cost differential of today. It was a service to those who wished to spend a bit more to have a place to sleep with some nicer surroundings. We often used the Parlor car or Sleepers and they were very reasonable no matter the way people today defend the current price structure. Again i think the last time I looked at it, these cost of maybe half the cost of the coach for a sleeper to upgrade is comparable with fares today being 8 times the cost of coach on a good day.


You keep missing me. Sleepers haven't gone up. Coach has gone down.


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## Guest_como_* (Nov 30, 2009)

jimhudson said:


> Bill Haithcoat said:
> 
> 
> > jimhudson said:
> ...


"Riding on the Rails" and "Those Pullman Blues" are great books. Both give the perspectives of Pullman Porters and some of the older Amtrak coach and sleeper attendants. It was a different time.


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## como (Nov 30, 2009)

This is an interesting discussion.

Like Tom I collect timetables, ticket receipts, etc.. We took several family trips on the train in the 1960's and I have the ticket receipts for those (my train addiction started early). I'm looking at a trip we took from Denver to Birmingham, AL in December 1963. The tickets were for two adults and one child (7 years old). We took the Denver Zephyr (Burlington) from Denver to Chicago and the Hummingbird (L&N) from Chicago to Birmingham

My dad paid the regular round trip adult fare $73.00

My mom a reduced adult fare $40.15

My fare (child 5-11) $20.20

Total $133.35

We were in coach from Denver to Chicago and sleeper from Chicago to Birmingham. The Pullman fee for one bedroom on the L&N Hummingbird was $22.15. For perspective, I'm guessing that my dad's annual salary was around $4000 in 1963.


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## MrFSS (Nov 30, 2009)

como said:


> I'm looking at a trip we took from Denver to Birmingham, AL in December 1963. The tickets were for two adults and one child (7 years old). We took the Denver Zephyr (Burlington) from Denver to Chicago and the Hummingbird (L&N) from Chicago to Birmingham


Well - the *Humming Bird* (two words, not one) didn't go from Chicago to Birmingham. It went from Cincinnati to points south.

The *South Wind* went from Chicago south with a stop in Birmingham. Could it have been that train?


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## como (Nov 30, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> como said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking at a trip we took from Denver to Birmingham, AL in December 1963. The tickets were for two adults and one child (7 years old). We took the Denver Zephyr (Burlington) from Denver to Chicago and the Hummingbird (L&N) from Chicago to Birmingham
> ...


I'm sure it was the Humming Bird. I looked in the April 1964 L&N Timetable. The Humming Bird, train 93-5, had Chicago and St. Louis sections. The Chicago section left at 3:45 p.m. on the Chicago on Eastern Illinois, joining the L&N and the St. Louis section in Evansville at 10:15 p.m., and going through Madisonville and Hopknsville, KY join the the train from Cincinnati in Nashville at 12:30 a.m. It arrived in Birmingham at 6:45 a.m.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Nov 30, 2009)

MrFSS said:


> como said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking at a trip we took from Denver to Birmingham, AL in December 1963. The tickets were for two adults and one child (7 years old). We took the Denver Zephyr (Burlington) from Denver to Chicago and the Hummingbird (L&N) from Chicago to Birmingham
> ...


The Humming Bird was a very complicated operation. There was one from Cincinnati to NOL. Part of it branched off in Bowling Green and went from Cincinnati to Memphis.

There was another HB from Chicago to Evansville,Nashville etc joining the train from Cincinnati in Nashville to go from Nashville to NOL.

Further there were through cars from St. Louis joining the train in Evansville to NOL

The HB and the Georgian operated very close to each other between CHI and Nashville.The Georgian went on from Nashville to Chattanooga and Atlanta.

At times through the years the HB and the Georgian were combined between CHI and Evansville and also between Chicago and Nashville. They were always combined between St. Louis and Evansville.


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## Bill Haithcoat (Dec 1, 2009)

A couple more points about the Humming Bird and the Georgian before this subject goes away.....

The rundown I gave was not meant to be complete. But one thing I forgot to mention is actually worthy of mention. And that is that at times a through sleeper ran from Cincinnati to Atlanta, being transferred in Nashville from the Humming Bird to the Georgian,opposite going north of course. Also at times this sleeper ran from Louisvlle to Atlanta.

The other point I wanted to make is that of course these trains were not originally put into service with all this jazz, all this switching around, all these multiple destinations. Instead it evolved into it over time. That is a story all unto itself. There was even an article in TRAINS once about the complicated operation of these trains and also of the preAmtrak Texas Eagle, as complicated or more than the above.


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