# Sounder rail Coffee



## PacificStarlight (Jan 24, 2013)

So how about an idea of ST modifying one or two of its coahes to include a starbucks. I don't know if the economical output would be favorible, but it always sounded like a good idea to me.


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## AlanB (Jan 24, 2013)

I want real coffee; not the burnt bean stuff that they serve.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 24, 2013)

Putting the "Starbucks: Good Or Bad" debate aside for the moment, I just don't think this would work on Sounder. For one thing,

you'd have the problem of getting the baristas back home after rush hour, since in most cases they couldn't simply hop a train

in the other direction. So that adds to the overhead cost.

Second, while Sound Transit allows beverages in closed containers, they don't permit eating. I'd imagine a coffee chain like Starbucks

would greatly prefer to sell scones/muffins etc in addition to their beverages, so either Sound Transit would have to change its policy

(which would open a Pandora's Box) or the coffee chain would have to agree to just sell beverages.

And thirdly, I highly doubt that anyone catching a commuter train in the Seattle area doesn't have at least 5 chances to buy a cup of

coffee before they board the train in the morning, either at the station or on the way from their house. So it's hard to see there

being a lot of pent-up demand. Sure, if you were running late for your train it'd be nice to grab a cuppajoe on board. But I think

most people would just stick to their preferred location.

And that doesn't even touch the question of the renovation costs that would be needed to install coffee making equipment and a sales

space on the train, since these cars don't have that already.

That said, is there ANY commuter service in the US that offers on-board food/beverage service? (Not counting certain Amtrak corridors

that are de facto commuter services). I'm certainly not aware of any.


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## AlanB (Jan 24, 2013)

fairviewroad said:


> That said, is there ANY commuter service in the US that offers on-board food/beverage service? (Not counting certain Amtrak corridorsthat are de facto commuter services). I'm certainly not aware of any.


Chicago's Metra used to have cafe cars on selected rush hour trains, but they've all been eliminated last I knew.

NJT's now defunct Casino service from NYP to Atlantic City used to serve food & drinks, but that also wasn't a "true" commuter service and they charged a premium fare to ride.

Beyond that, the only other commuter service that I know of which provides any sort of beverage service is the NY City services. The New Haven division of Metro North puts bar cars on a couple of selected trains to New Haven each rush hour. And during the summer months, the LIRR runs the special Cannon Ball Express, where one can pay an extra $20 or so for a seat in a special car that has drinks available.


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## John Bredin (Jan 24, 2013)

While I agree with the rest of what you wrote, I respectfully disagree with the following:



fairviewroad said:


> Second, while Sound Transit allows beverages in closed containers, they don't permit eating. I'd imagine a coffee chain like Starbuckswould greatly prefer to sell scones/muffins etc in addition to their beverages, so either Sound Transit would have to change its policy
> 
> (which would open a Pandora's Box) or the coffee chain would have to agree to just sell beverages.


I don't think it's a Pandora's Box as you say. Sound Transit operates buses, Sounder, and Link. They could allow eating on Sounder while still prohibiting it on the buses and Link.

Here in Chicago, the CTA forbids eating and drinking on the buses and L, but Metra allows both on the commuter trains. Given the time & distances of commuter rail commutes, and that commuter rail cars are generally roomier than L cars, light-rail cars, or transit buses, I think the distinction is reasonable.

As to your question, Chicago and NYC commuter rail had on-board food & beverage (including booze!) sales into the last few years on selected trains on selected routes. Metra doesn't anymore, but I _believe_ LIRR and Metro-North do.


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## shelzp (Jan 24, 2013)

AlanB said:


> I want real coffee; not the burnt bean stuff that they serve.





AlanB said:


> I want real coffee; not the burnt bean stuff that they serve.


Yup not crazy about Charbucks here either.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 24, 2013)

John Bredin said:


> While I agree with the rest of what you wrote, I respectfully disagree with the following:
> 
> 
> fairviewroad said:
> ...


Okay, "Pandora's Box" may be a bit of an overstatement. What I meant is that if they allowed food purchased from an on-board Starbucks, they'd also

have to allow food brought on-board from any other source. Yeah, some other commuter rail agencies allow it but I'll bet those agencies have higher

on-board cleaning costs. I'd also guess that the average rider on Metra is on the train longer than the average rider on the Sounders, meaning a food

ban is less of a hardship on Sounder.

At any rate, the food policy is probably the least consequential of my reasons why it probably won't happen.


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## fairviewroad (Jan 24, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Beyond that, the only other commuter service that I know of which provides any sort of beverage service is the NY City services. The New Haven division of Metro North puts bar cars on a couple of selected trains to New Haven each rush hour. And during the summer months, the LIRR runs the special Cannon Ball Express, where one can pay an extra $20 or so for a seat in a special car that has drinks available.


Didn't know about the Cannon Ball Express, though from the LIRR website it appears that's fairly limited in scope. I had also forgotten about the bar cars. Certainly

not the same as an on-board coffee shop, that's for sure!


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## Bob Dylan (Jan 24, 2013)

AlanB said:


> I want real coffee; not the burnt bean stuff that they serve.


So True! Down here in the Peoples Republic of Austin where there are so Many Mom and Pop Coffee and Pastry Shops, only Yankees and Californians will Pay $5-$7 for a Bad Cup of So Called Coffee! :giggle:


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## PacificStarlight (Jan 24, 2013)

jimhudson said:


> AlanB said:
> 
> 
> > I want real coffee; not the burnt bean stuff that they serve.
> ...


same here. i jsut said starbucks, becuase of the fact that it seems that everyone up here loves it. Im not a fan myself. Last monday i was railfanning at king street. and I noticed that when i went to Tullys 3 police officers were the only people in there, while starbucks across the path had a 15 person line with standing room only. Go figure.


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## BCL (Jan 25, 2013)

AlanB said:


> Beyond that, the only other commuter service that I know of which provides any sort of beverage service is the NY City services. The New Haven division of Metro North puts bar cars on a couple of selected trains to New Haven each rush hour. And during the summer months, the LIRR runs the special Cannon Ball Express, where one can pay an extra $20 or so for a seat in a special car that has drinks available.


You didn't say what "commuter service meant", so.......Golden Gate Ferry (operated by the Golden Gate Bridge board) has food and beverage sales on its commuter ferries. I think that a lot of commuter ferries would do this. On rails it might be another matter. I take Caltrain a lot, and they're very liberal in regards to what can be consumed on board, but they don't sell anything. I mean - conductors told me stories of people bringing hard liquor and knocking back shots, sometimes followed by vomiting in the vestibules. I haven't seen that, but I've seen groups with 12-packs of beer.

I generally only take Caltrain if I'm connecting via another service. With tight turnarounds there isn't enough time to pick up coffee, and nobody has contracted for a coffee cart

at the station. Once I missed my connection time and figured I had about 20 minutes for the next train that got me to my destination (there are limited stop trains). That was enough to go to the coffee shop a half block away and get a cup to go.

Here's a Golden Gate Ferry snack bar:







You don't supposed something like this would fit in a rail car?


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## SubwayNut (Jan 26, 2013)

West Coast Express (the one commuter train in Vancouver) has a 'cappuccino bar' on each run also. At every stop there is a little logo of a coffee cup telling you where on the platform the car with the cappuccino bar will stop.

We in New York on Metro-North's New Haven Line still have bar cars on select afternoon trains. Right now its unclear if the institution will end soon, there endangered, the fleet of cars M2s that make up the bar cars and the no M8 bar cars have been ordered. They were planning to retrofit some of the M8s to install bars but I haven't heard about any yet. There is no Metro-North coffee service in these cars on morning trains.


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## cpamtfan (Jan 29, 2013)

The LIRR also has "bar carts" on platforms in Penn, Jamaica, Brooklyn, and (suprisingly year round) Hunterspoint Avenue. They used to (and still might) run out on a few trains east of Jamaica during rush hour, but haven't seen them on the traisn they used to be on.

Adding to what Alan said, the Cannonball from the Friday before Memorial Day to the Friday before Labor Day includes two "reserved cars". People still like to refer to them by parlor cars, but they are far from the cars of the past as far as actual luxury. In reality they're just 2 regular coaches with cupholders on the armrest and you have the seat like an Amtrak train. The other 8-10 cars in the train are stuffed like cattle, which has it's upsides and it's downsides.

There are also "bar cars" on these trains for the non-reserved cars. There are usually at least 2 on the Cannonball, and 1 or 2 others on other Montauk trains.

Fun note: sometimes celeberties such as Alec Baldwin ride the reserved cars on occasion. So sometimes you're riding in style on the LIRR!


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