# Can't book CZ-CS-EB?



## D.P. Roberts (Aug 29, 2015)

I tried booking a trip for a trip on trains 5 to 14 to 28, but Amtrak's site won't let me. It will allow the reverse, though, going 27 to 11 to 6. So, the "route" is there in one direction, but not the other.

I thought at first that perhaps the connection between 14 and 8 was too tight at PDX, since the CS only arrives an hour before the EB is due to depart. But no, I can book any connection between them without problems. I can also book a connection between 5 and 14 without a problem (which makes sense, since the layover in SAC is 10 hours). So, if I can make either of those connections without issue, why not BOTH of them?

I've heard that when a route can't be seen on the website it's because ARROW doesn't recognize the route, but it clearly allowed a route between one set of city pairs in one direction, so what's going on?


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## niemi24s (Aug 29, 2015)

Try again. I just did it:




The only problem I can see is that train 8 is the one that leaves from SEA - 28 leaves from PDX, This assumes you want to change trains in PDX and not SEA.


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## SteveSFL (Aug 29, 2015)

It will let you do it with multi-city, but if o.p. is planning an AGR redemption, you can't use multi-city booking (until AGR 2.0 of course).


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## the_traveler (Aug 29, 2015)

I found the same thing last night!

Although I did not try the reverse, it did not allow EB/CS to either TE or SWC but does allow to the CZ.


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## SteveSFL (Aug 29, 2015)

Yep, last year you could do CHI-PDX-LAX-ELP or WPT-PDX-LAX-NOL but they got rid of the connection to the TE/SL unless you are just coming from the CS.


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## willem (Aug 29, 2015)

As I understand it, each connection needs to be manually entered in Arrow. Since the connection from Coast Starlight to Sunset Limited is still allowed, it would seem that the longer itinerary was specifically deleted. It would be easy to assume this was to eliminate the AGR redemption possibility. Can someone offer another explanation?


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## AmtrakBlue (Aug 29, 2015)

I think niemi24s got it right - if the OP is connecting in Portland, he needs to connect to 28, not 8.


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## D.P. Roberts (Aug 30, 2015)

AmtrakBlue said:


> I think niemi24s got it right - if the OP is connecting in Portland, he needs to connect to 28, not 8.


You are correct, I wrote the wrong train numbers in, but have now edited the first post.

Either way, as nieme24s pointed out, 5-14-28 works in the Multi-City ticket connection, but it does not work the regular one-way / round trip tabs, even though the reverse trip DOES work in the regular tabs. As SteveSTX pointed out, if you want to do an AGR redeemption (which I do), multi-city routes don't work.

On that note, I posted this question here instead of the AGR sub-forum because my question is about the Amtrak site & ARROW specifically, AGR is tangential to the issue - if I can figure out how to route it on the regular website, the AGR issue will take care of itself. However, it appears that I'm out of luck, unless we decide to do our trip in reverse...


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## Devil's Advocate (Aug 30, 2015)

Just save double the points and wait for the new and improved AGR2. Then again you might need to save triple the points depending on season. Either way problem solved.


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## hhswami (Aug 30, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Just save double the points and wait for the new and improved AGR2. Then again you might need to save triple the points depending on season. Either way problem solved.


AGR2016?


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## SteveSFL (Aug 30, 2015)

I;'ve done both directions and found there are pros and cons with each.

Clockwise (CZ-CS-EB):

Pros:

Best direction on the CZ since you have best chance of seeing Rockies in daylight even if train is late.

Good scenery in southern Oregon on the CS.

Good boxed dinner on EB out of Portland

Good scenery along Columbia River if train is not late and it's not winter. This is some of the best scenery I've ever seen on Amtrak.

If train is late, sun is up by the time you get to Glacier

Cons:

You get that long layover at SAC.

The SAC station sucks.

You board the CS at midnight

If the CS is late, you might end up with the mother of all bustitutions - Kalamath Falls-Pasco. (if it's only moderately late, you get to see Mt. Shasta)

Counter-clockwise (EB-CS-CZ):

Pros:

You should definitely get to see the Columbia River Gorge during daylight.

No long layover in SAC

Early but not unreasonable arrival time in SAC

Cons:

Glacier will be in darkness if it is anything other than summer, and if the EB is late, even then.

The boxed breakfast on the Portland leg sucks.

If the CZ is running late, you might miss part of the Rockies.

When I did the preferred clockwise direction (DEN-PDX-WPT), it was when the EB was departing 3 hours early from PDX, so it was impossible to make the connection. But AGR was allowing overnight in PDX on the customer's dime with a single redemption.

You might try calling AGR to see if they might permit you to do that route, but I doubt it.


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## D.P. Roberts (Aug 30, 2015)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Just save double the points and wait for the new and improved AGR2. Then again you might need to save triple the points depending on season. Either way problem solved.


 I'm planning on booking this soon for summer 2016 in order to avoid AGR 2.0. With the exact route we're planning, this trip will currently cost us 55,000 points. Based on the new cost calculator Amtrak has put out, AGR 2.0 would cost us 90,000 points - almost twice as much. So, not quite triple the points, but enough to make this trip a "must do" before AGR switches over.



SteveSTX said:


> When I did the preferred clockwise direction (DEN-PDX-WPT), it was when the EB was departing 3 hours early from PDX, so it was impossible to make the connection. But AGR was allowing overnight in PDX on the customer's dime with a single redemption.
> 
> You might try calling AGR to see if they might permit you to do that route, but I doubt it.


We did CHI-PDX-LAX on that route two summers ago at that same time, when Amtrak allowed that same overnight. One of the reasons I'd like to do 28 instead of 27 is that we've already seen the route westbound, & it's always fun to see the same route going the other way during a different time of day. Also, since we're detraining in WFH, it's no big deal if 28 is running late since WFH is an early morning arrival, but the westbound 27 can easily end up arriving in the middle of the night if 27 is late.

I'm not looking forward to spending 10 hours in Sacramento, but I have heard that sometimes Amtrak lets people make the connection in EMY instead. I've never been to EMY or SAC, but just from pictures it looks like SAC is a better looking station, and at least has the train museum and Old Town Sacramento to look at while we're waiting. I haven't yet looked into the pros and cons of EMY yet. And yes, I'll probably call AGR to see if they will let me book the trip 5-14-28, but I don't have my hopes up.


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 30, 2015)

DP- Check out Davis as a place to do your layover! Wonderful little California College town with a grand little old SP Station!

Only 15-20 mins West, but a world apart from SAC which, except for the Great Rail Museum which closes early, is pretty bland for the Capitol of California!!


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## D.P. Roberts (Aug 30, 2015)

jimhudson said:


> DP- Check out Davis as a place to do your layover! Wonderful little California College town with a grand little old SP Station!
> 
> Only 15-20 mins West, but a world apart from SAC which, except for the Great Rail Museum which closes early, is pretty bland for the Capitol of California!!


I'll definitely check out Davis - it sounds like a much nicer town to walk around. Do any of these stations have lockers?


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## Bob Dylan (Aug 30, 2015)

D.P. Roberts said:


> jimhudson said:
> 
> 
> > DP- Check out Davis as a place to do your layover! Wonderful little California College town with a grand little old SP Station!
> ...


The very friendly Lady Attendant in Davis will let you leave your stuff behind the counter for Free while sight seeing!

SAC has a Sleeper Waiting area with a few couches and chairs in the Lobby but its not secure.

In EMY and SAC you can also pay the $4 per bag fee to leave your stuff with the Agent!

Google up info on Davis, you'll like what you see!!


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## SteveSFL (Aug 30, 2015)

Theoretically, you could detrain at SAC and store your bags there (I've never been charged for that). Then buy a RT ticket to Davis on Cap Corridor and just make sure you're back in time to claim your bags for the Coast Starlight.

Last time I went through (southbound CS to eastbound CZ), my SCA let me stay on board to Martinez and then I bought a return ticket to SAC on Cap Corridor after eating breakfast. There isn't a whole lot to see in MTZ, so Davis is probably a better bet. I did MTZ because I wanted to see the bay.

I have heard stories of people being permitted to stay on the Zephyr or CS all the way to EMY.


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## D.P. Roberts (Sep 6, 2015)

I have a follow-up question that's been bugging me.

Since I can't book the whole CZ-CS-EB trip as one ticket, I'll have to split it up into several tickets. The easiest/cheapest way to do that would be a two-zone trip from Chicago - Portland, and then a one-zone trip from PDX to Montana.

I know that the 14-28 connection in PDX is a guaranteed connection, despite the fact that it's only an hour or so. However, that's a pretty short connection by Amtrak standards. If the northbound Starlight is late and I miss my connection to the EB, would it still be a guaranteed connection if I book it all as one trip at the same time, even though it's technically two different redemptions?


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## chakk (Sep 6, 2015)

Should be guaranteed. And I have heard of bus trips as long as Chemault OR to Pasco WA to catch up from a very late 14 to an ontime 28


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## the_traveler (Sep 6, 2015)

Once when I was on 14 that was late, they bused the connecting passengers from Albany, OR to PDX to connect to the EB. (It's actually faster to drive up I-5 than staying on the CS!)


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## Bob Dylan (Sep 6, 2015)

I did the Klamath Falls to Pasco Bustitution one time and it was lots of fun! NOT!


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## SteveSFL (Sep 7, 2015)

If you are going to do two separate redemptions, just plan an overnight in pdx and that way you don't have to worry about a bustitution.


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## D.P. Roberts (Sep 7, 2015)

SteveSTX said:


> If you are going to do two separate redemptions, just plan an overnight in pdx and that way you don't have to worry about a bustitution.


Yeah, we're seriously thinking of that. Yeah, it would cost us a night in a hotel, and add an extra day onto a trip that's already getting pretty long (5 nights traveling out there, not counting the vacation itself). However, aside from avoiding a bus, if we stay in Portland we'd also have the option of taking a Talgo up to Seattle, see the city for a few hours (we've never been), and train 8 from Seattle-Spokane. All of that would be new scenery. However, we've never seen 28 eastbound, and I'd like to see the Columbia River Gorge in the afternoon / evening, especially if it's not raining.


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## tomfuller (Sep 7, 2015)

Stay on the CS northbound to Seattle. The HI Hostel (former American hotel) is within walking distance of the SEA station also CenturyLink field.

Ride the 513 Cascades Talgo south (11:15AM) back to Portland so you can take the EB along the Columbia.

In Portland there is a HI Hostel about a mile west of PDX along Glisan St.


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## City of Miami (Sep 7, 2015)

The Moore Hotel is a viable option in downtown Seattle. From $76 for queen room, double occupancy.

http://www.moorehotel.com/

It's an older hotel, well maintained, friendly staff, couple blocks from Pike Mkt. Take the street car from Kings St. Station. I will definitely stay there again.


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## JayPea (Sep 7, 2015)

City of Miami said:


> The Moore Hotel is a viable option in downtown Seattle. From $76 for queen room, double occupancy.
> 
> http://www.moorehotel.com/
> 
> It's an older hotel, well maintained, friendly staff, couple blocks from Pike Mkt. Take the street car from Kings St. Station. I will definitely stay there again.


Agree fully. The Moore is my hotel of choice whenever I stay in Seattle.


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