# Teenagers, School & Freight Trains



## sunchaser (Nov 7, 2009)

Video can be seen  here.

The blue, white & red train is the Utah Front Runner. (commuter rail)

One of my grandchildren attends this school, but doesn't need to cross in that area. And knows better.

Be sure to read the comments-I was surprised the attitude is about how inconvienced they would be by going around or waiting.

I hope this is not a general attitude nationally!

Fixed it! I thought Front Runner was light rail too.


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## AlanB (Nov 7, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Video can be seen  here. The blue, white & red train is the Utah Front Runner. (light rail)
> 
> One of my grandchildren attends this school, but doesn't need to cross in that area. And knows better.
> 
> ...


Just an FYI Sunchaser, but Front Runner is commuter rail. Salt Lake City does also have light rail, Trax, but what is seen in that video is commuter rail.

And sadly, that attitude can indeed be found nationally. Which is why people are killed by trains every day in this country.


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## the_traveler (Nov 7, 2009)

AlanB said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > I hope this is not a general attitude nationally!
> ...


I couldn't believe some of those comments! :blink: Would they rather wait 5 (or even 40) minutes - or have 50-60 years more "to be inconvenienced"? :huh:

And it is nationally. Just read THIS THREAD about 2 people in CA that were hit by a train "while bonding"!


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## DET63 (Nov 8, 2009)

Comment in response:



> cuno1018:59am - Sat Nov 7th, 2009
> 
> There's been a problem there since I went to West High too... I had to walk that way to get to school, there is a bridge to the south of it, but there's bums at there too, and being a girl... no no way not on N. Temple am I going there.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it's a choice-of-evils situation.


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## amtrakwolverine (Nov 8, 2009)

they could always build another bridge just for pedestrian use.


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## Ryan (Nov 8, 2009)

Or the little ones could get out of bed a little earlier and get to school on time.


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## AlanB (Nov 8, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> they could always build another bridge just for pedestrian use.


Sadly bridges don't always work, even though it does seem like a good idea. The bridge usually requires walking up steps or a ramp, and people will still opt for the more dangerous, but shorter crossing.

Several years ago I watched in horror as a man crossed the Harlem River Drive in Manhattan and got hit by a car.  I never heard if he survived or not, but he certainly didn't look good as I drove by. He landed 2 feet from a bridge that would have safely carried him over the highway to reach the park on the East River.

Instead of a nice day in the park, he got a free trip to either the hospital or the morgue.


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## the_traveler (Nov 8, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> they could always build another bridge just for pedestrian use.


And do you build a bridge at *EVERY* grade crossing? :huh:

If a train is blocking the crossing at 41st Street, chances are it is also blocking the crossings at 42nd Street, 44th Street and 39th Street too! What about "those poor kids" that have to use those crossings? :huh: Why should the kids at 41st Street get a bridge when there is none at 44th Street? 

Why not have all wait for the train to pass?


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## DET63 (Nov 8, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > they could always build another bridge just for pedestrian use.
> ...


Some do wait for the train to pass, but then they're late for school. Although they may be excused, if there's a major test in first period, a student may not want to be late and have to either rush through the test or make it up at lunchtime or after school.

Here are another couple of comments in response to the article linked in the OP:



> *Sehkmet*
> 2:51pm - Fri Nov 6th, 2009
> 
> Seriously, KSL is wasting time and resources on this article. I had friends who went to West High and they had to learn the train schedule to be able to get to school on time. It was a ten minute walk to the school from their home, but on certain days they would have to leave an hour before school started just to cross the tracks before the train did. It's a crappy set up and I agree with the comment that U.P. should build a pedestrian walkway if they want to keep people off their trains.


Response to Sekhmet:



> *DR DON*
> 3:10pm - Fri Nov 6th, 2009
> 
> The tracks were there long before West High existed. Why should the railroad foot the bill because the school district chose to locate a high school where it did?


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## tp49 (Nov 9, 2009)

If they want to try and send a message to these high schoolers then the police should head down into that area in conjunction with the railroad bulls and start making arrests and writing tickets. These kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and outside of someone getting killed hitting them in the pocketbook or having a criminal record might be a necessary deterrent. The city, school district, and UP also need to get together figure out at which intersections the majority of this is happening and take steps to mitigate the problem either through eliminating the crossing, changing the trains schedule, increased law enforcement presence or a combination of the three.


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## DET63 (Nov 9, 2009)

Not living or even having been in that area, I can only make some some educated guesses about what is going on. Assuming that what cuno101, for example, said is true, the problem is this: the school is located along a street that crosses the railroad tracks. Telling kids, on foot, to make a detour through several blocks of what they, perhaps correctly, perceive to be dangerous neighborhoods to avoid climbing through a train waiting on the crossing is probably not going to work. I would guess, further, that both railroad and city police have priorities other than writing out tickets to teenagers who climb through stopped trains on their way to school. Now, should a kid lose a hand, foot, arm, leg, or even a head after falling off a train as it starts to move, perhaps others will get the message and make other choices.

Some have suggested that if a pedestrian bridge or tunnel is built at this point, one would have to be built every block to satisfy kids traveling on those streets. However, as I see it, far more kids are probably traveling on the street that goes past the school than on parallel streets that may also cross the tracks. Therefore, a grade-separated pedestrian crossing on that street would probably be adequate; similar structures would not be necessary on other nearby streets.


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## amtrakwolverine (Nov 9, 2009)

the_traveler said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > they could always build another bridge just for pedestrian use.
> ...


why not build a overpass at a everycrossing. canada did. then we don't have to worry about school kids getting killed cause there too lazy to cross a bidge or stupid drivers who can't wait a minute for a train.


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## AlanB (Nov 9, 2009)

Well that would be the ultimate solution that would solve most of the problems. The problem with doing that however is first the big costs to build all those bridges. Second, in some areas it may not even be possible to build a bridge. And finally as I'm sure you know having seen many stories about this problem, there is the issue of the NIMBY. The person who opposes change without regard to whether it actually provides a benefit or not.


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## the_traveler (Nov 9, 2009)

DET63 said:


> Some do wait for the train to pass, but then they're late for school. Although they may be excused, if there's a major test in first period, a student may not want to be late and have to either rush through the test or make it up at lunchtime or after school.
> Here (is) another comments in response to the article linked in the OP:
> 
> 
> ...


The same could be said about a driver of a car. They would also have to learn the train's schedule. (Or here's a thought - leave earlier in case there is a train blocking the crossing!  )

On my trips to Providence, normally it takes like 30 minutes. But I left for work maybe 1 hour or so before my start time. Due to traffic, I may have arrived 30 minutes early, 15 minutes early, 5 minutes early - or 10 minutes late! Maybe I should learn the traffic schedules!  Or I could demand RIDOT build a new lane *for my own use* so that I am not delayed! Then I could leave 30 minutes early every day!


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## Rumpled (Nov 9, 2009)

Don't know about the bums, but Temple looks like a long detour from the other streets with the ramps and all.

That's looking on Google maps where it also looks like this would occur for about four blocks.

Not sure about the best remedy, I think part of it could be better gates; four way at least.

Maybe they can ask Placentia, CA about how to waste a few hundred million dollars undergrounding tracks.


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## DET63 (Nov 11, 2009)

Rumpled said:


> Don't know about the bums, but Temple looks like a long detour from the other streets with the ramps and all.That's looking on Google maps where it also looks like this would occur for about four blocks.
> 
> Not sure about the best remedy, I think part of it could be better gates; four way at least.
> 
> Maybe they can ask Placentia, CA about how to waste a few hundred million dollars undergrounding tracks.


I'm not sure how gates, four-way or otherwise, are going to keep pedestrians off the tracks.


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## amtrakwolverine (Nov 11, 2009)

well they could always put up a solar powered electric fence along the tracks. not the whole length of the track but just near the school and other places were there are more trespassers then normal.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 11, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> well they could always put up a solar powered electric fence along the tracks. not the whole length of the track but just near the school and other places were there are more trespassers then normal.


A solar powered electric fence?

... Perhaps a fence tied to the main grid would at least be lest costly. :blink:


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 11, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > well they could always put up a solar powered electric fence along the tracks. not the whole length of the track but just near the school and other places were there are more trespassers then normal.
> ...


Otherwise they'd just cross at night. :blink:


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## Rumpled (Nov 11, 2009)

DET63 said:


> Rumpled said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know about the bums, but Temple looks like a long detour from the other streets with the ramps and all.That's looking on Google maps where it also looks like this would occur for about four blocks.
> ...


That's why I said it would only be a part, and that I don't know a good answer.


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## amtrakwolverine (Nov 12, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> amtrakwolverine said:
> 
> 
> > well they could always put up a solar powered electric fence along the tracks. not the whole length of the track but just near the school and other places were there are more trespassers then normal.
> ...


if they loose there power at night then explain solar powered signals near the tracks. i see signs or signals that have a solar panel on them even in the CUS yard. they have battery backup which is charging during the day. tieing it to the grid would not be cheaper unless they didn't have to pay for the power.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 13, 2009)

amtrakwolverine said:


> ALC_Rail_Writer said:
> 
> 
> > amtrakwolverine said:
> ...


How often does the main grid loose power? Yeah it happens, but with current technology the main grid would be more reliable than a local solar grid and battery set...

Powering a little trackside detector or emergency phone is one thing-- whole freaking electric fence running (how many volts by the way, you don't want to kill these people with your intentions to prevent their deaths) is an entirely different problem to solve.


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 13, 2009)

Hey, a solar charger for an electric fence.

Operates in total darkness for 21 days. Charges up to 25 miles of fence.

I'm no electric wiz, I wonder what it would take to defeat this, like discharging it to ground and depleting the battery. Just for argument sake. h34r:


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## tp49 (Nov 13, 2009)

In the words of Ren and Stimpy "Don't wiz on the electric fence."


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 13, 2009)

tp49 said:


> In the words of Ren and Stimpy "Don't wiz on the electric fence."


My neighbor has a couple of electric strands of wire up on our communal wooden post and rail fence, on his side to keep his horses from chewing on the rails. We sometimes do some catching up talking over the fence. Once, chatting away, I let my hand droop a bit and the wet can of beer I was holding touched the upper wire. Talk about a surprise... 

The beer can went straight up and me on my backsides. :lol:


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## Long Train Runnin' (Nov 13, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> My neighbor has a couple of electric strands of wire up on our communal wooden post and rail fence, on his side to keep his horses from chewing on the rails.


:lol: Thats what they all say...


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 13, 2009)

Long Train Runnin said:


> PetalumaLoco said:
> 
> 
> > My neighbor has a couple of electric strands of wire up on our communal wooden post and rail fence, on his side to keep his horses from chewing on the rails.
> ...


Hmm, never thought of that... :angry:


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 13, 2009)

I think the public will have something to say about saving kids from being hit by trains by killing them with electricity.

Perhaps a standard chain-link fence, six feet high, will deter them enough.


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## PetalumaLoco (Nov 13, 2009)

ALC_Rail_Writer said:


> I think the public will have something to say about saving kids from being hit by trains by killing them with electricity.
> Perhaps a standard chain-link fence, six feet high, will deter them enough.


I think the electric fence would be overkill, but I doubt it would kill anyone, they're sprinkled throughout my neighborhood. A lot of the horsey-set lives around here. Still, it's not the answer in this situation.


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## ALC Rail Writer (Nov 14, 2009)

I was being histrionic to make a point, I'll admit.

But then again they say that TASERs don't kill... and, well-- oops.


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## DET63 (Nov 14, 2009)

Discussion about an electric fence (or any other kind) is pointless here. This is a street crossing (and apparently a fairly major street at that), so kids wanting to use it would just walk in the roadway if the rest of the ROW was fenced off.

The school is very close by (only about a block or two east), so a lot of kids will use W 300 N. Freight trains usually don't run on a schedule, so unless some block of time is dedicated to keeping trains out of the area, it's not practical or even possible for kids to "check the schedule" to make sure they can get to school on time without leaving home early. A detour to the next street north (W 6th N) with an overpass might mean an extra 10-20 min walk—little better option than waiting for the train to pass (and this isn't even taking into account the bums that the female poster fears). Since students have no way of knowing how long the train will stay in the crossing, it's a gamble.

In short, the kids who walk (and don't we want kids to walk to school so they won't get too fat?) don't have many alternatives.


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