# Horrible Bus Ride Las Vegas-Reno



## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 29, 2014)

Here are some pictures from my awful bus ride on November 11th, 2014, Veteran's Day. I rode Silver State Trailways Schedule 100 from Las Vegas to Reno. The motorcoach was a Van Hool T2140 (no wheelchair lift) leased by the operator. The suspension was extraordinarily bad and the Van Hool rode very rough. The HVAC coughed up and died. The seats did not recline and had massive dips in the back. Some of the interior lights were out. The lavatory had no sink or sanitizer.

The ticket cost $80.50, far too much for such a horrible ride. Greyhound's only $52 but you have to go through Los Angeles and Sacramento. I will never be using Silver State again.

Thankfully, I did read the Carrier Code before booking and I knew this would be a Silver State. Fair warning to all: when booking Greyhound tickets, ALWAYS read the Carrier Code! GLI and GLC are Greyhound, anything else is NOT Greyhound!

Click on the photos to see the entire photos. Notice the upper windshield wipers are broken and flipped up. I've ridden White G4500s (aka Greyhound Dirty Dogs / Ghetto Hounds) that were in equally bad condition but at least rode much smoother due to its much longer wheelbase.

I have tons more scenery shots if you guys want to see them.


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## greatcats (Nov 29, 2014)

I like the drive between Las Vegas and Reno and am glad to know that there is a bus available, however mediocre. I enjoy driving even more US50 east-westr across Nevada, the Loneliest Highway. Drove east in August, and camped in the forest campground east of Austin, which is beautifuyl, but the facilities there left something to be desired. I wrote a letter of complaint to the Forest Service, and received a letter of apology!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 30, 2014)

I like the drive too, but Silver State isn't just mediocre, it's HORRIBLE! I mean, if anybody though Greyhound was bad, this one is like, oh my God, that much worse!

No bus service on US 50 anymore, unfortunately. Nevada Central used to run it.


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## greatcats (Nov 30, 2014)

Swadian - I punched up the Silver State website and it said that daily service is no longer operating, but you seem to have ridden it just recently. This outfit mainly seems to be a charter operation. The bus you rose looks fairly nice from the outside, but not in gods repair inside


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## seat38a (Nov 30, 2014)

Actually that armrest picture you posted is NOT broken. That is how it functions to go all the way down to allow easy access for people. Its a little funky to operate but it is designed to go all the way down, all the way up or locked into the regular horizontal position. On my recent trip on the LAX Fly Away bus had those type of armrest.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Nov 30, 2014)

greatcats said:


> Swadian - I punched up the Silver State website and it said that daily service is no longer operating, but you seem to have ridden it just recently. This outfit mainly seems to be a charter operation. The bus you rose looks fairly nice from the outside, but not in gods repair inside


I'll admit it don't look too bad from the outside, but on the inside, no air-conditioning, no seat recline, no sink or sanitizer in the lavatory, and the biggest problem: an extremely rough ride. I'll also admit the seats didn't sag like the Painful Premiers on Greyhound's newest toys, but the seat back had a massive dip in it which was equally painful.

Actually, now that I look at my interior pic, it's looks like one of the seats is reclined but for some reason, I could not get mine to recline. Though reclining might have made it more painful because of the dip in the seat back; I don't know if that's a design feature or poor maintenance.



seat38a said:


> Actually that armrest picture you posted is NOT broken. That is how it functions to go all the way down to allow easy access for people. Its a little funky to operate but it is designed to go all the way down, all the way up or locked into the regular horizontal position. On my recent trip on the LAX Fly Away bus had those type of armrest.


I know, I didn't say the armrest was broken I just said the seats didn't recline. I've played with FAINSAs enough to figure out the armrest, but man, FAINSAs are much better than these. Some people don't like the FAINSAs, I think they're fine. Those are the seats on Spanish trains and Greyhound also has some of them.

Having no air-conditioning combined with a very rough ride basically sealed it for me. My worst Greyhound ride was on a vehicle that smelled like burning plastic but the ride was smoother (much longer wheelbase) and the FAINSAs were more comfortable. Not that it was a good ride, but that burning plastic unit has now been rehabbed.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 1, 2014)

A bus is a bus is a bus. And bus spelled backwards is sub as in sub standard.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 1, 2014)

A bus is a bus but there's some buses that are awesome and other buses that are far, far, far, far, far, far worse.

That's why I'm extremely picky about buses. I have very high standards when it comes to them, and I only regard a few bus models as being superior to all the rest. To me, a MCI is a motorcoach, and a motorcoach is not a bus. A Van Hool is also not a bus, it's also a motorcoach, but it's a much worse motorcoach. Nevertheless, a good old DL3 is most definitely not sub-standard, it is the best of the best.

One reason I posted this is to show the immense differences between different motorcoaches, and that one should not jump to conclusions about them. Even a hardcore fan like me doesn't like most buses and motorcoaches. I posted this in the first place to counter the "a bus is a bus" stereotype, which is of course wrong because there's so many different models out there and the model and the difference between each model is what it's all about.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 2, 2014)

Do you have pictures of the best mother coach? What is the difference between a motor coach and a bus? My assumption is that bus refers to a City bus and motor coach refers to a long distance bus.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 2, 2014)

Steve4031 said:


> A bus is a bus is a bus. And bus spelled backwards is sub as in sub standard.


You've obviously never traveled in a Prevost XLII Entertainer Coach.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 2, 2014)

Im not an entertainer.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 2, 2014)

Steve4031 said:


> Do you have pictures of the best mother coach? What is the difference between a motor coach and a bus? My assumption is that bus refers to a City bus and motor coach refers to a long distance bus.


Officially, a motorcoach is an "integral passenger vehicle characterized by a passenger deck over a baggage compartment". It's a sub-category of a bus. The DOT name for the motorcoach is "over-the-road-bus". Using the same logic you used in "sub standard", I could also say an "over-the-road-bus" is "over-expectations" even though this terrible Van Hool is also an OTRB.

For passengers, I currently rate buses based on 13 Aspects: Reliability, Speed, Interior Design, Lavatory, Parcel Racks, Cargo Hold, Noise Level, Seat Comfort, Seat Legroom, Seat Recline, Ride Quality, Air Quality, Window Design, and Emissions.

Each Aspect is given a max of 5 Points. I can also rate buses based on different Aspects when the target audience is a bus operator rather than the passenger. For the operator, I would rate based on things like fuel efficiency as well, which is omitted in the ratings for passengers.

The T2140 here gets a total of 25 points. Whereas my favorite, the 102DL3 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15305573244/) gets a total of 60 points. Greyhound's worst bus, the White G4500, gets 44 points, but the same model run by subsidiary Americanos gets only 39 points due to Americanos' terrible maintenance. Greyhound Canada's G4500, also their worst bus, gets 46 points due to having adjustable winged headrests on their seats.

Unfortunately, luxury buses, like the Irizar PB used in Latin America, are mechanically poor vehicles with short wheelbases and often body-on-frame construction. Thus, while they would score extremely high on seating Aspects and on the Lavatory, they would score very poorly on Reliability, Speed, and other equipment-related Aspects that still directly affect passengers.



Steve4031 said:


> Im not an entertainer.


You don't need to be an entertainer. But you know what's better than a XLII entertainer? A H3-45 entertainer!

In my opinion, it is far better to learn about buses than to brush buses aside and say, "They're all sub standard $hit that I don't want to ride!"

Like me, I don't just know about buses, I know some stuff about trains, planes, and ships even. I'm no expert on those, but I sure as heck know more than the average Joe, which allows me to make better, fairer judgments without stereotypes. When I'm going to fly on a 757, I don't think of it as flying on a plane, I think of it as flying on a 757.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 2, 2014)

This is interesting. I think there have been improvement since my last motor coach ride which was an amtrak bustitution. In these situation one would not get the best equipment.

It would be interesting to ride a good one just to see improvement.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 2, 2014)

That greyhound does look nice. If I was guranteed something like that and leg room was decent then I would be OK.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2014)

The Greyhpund that I rode recently from Denver to Raton to connect with SWC was definitely not horrible.


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## chakk (Dec 2, 2014)

From my experience in both cities, traveling by any means between Las Vegas and The Biggest Little City in the World is like going from the frypan into the fire.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 2, 2014)

I'll be honest with you, that Greyhound doesn't operate much out here in Reno. And yeah, I'm not very happy at all that they don't use the DL3 out of Reno unless one gets super lucky. Most of the time, out here, they use this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15893698291/.

That bus is a good bus, but Greyhound ordered the WRONG seats for it. The seats in those new toys are PAINFUL, especially the seat bottoms! So, I have to sit on something to counter the hip pain. I _so_ wish Greyhound would send better seats over here or replace those PAINFUL seats! Good thing is, the new toys have virtually no emissions, you can stand behind them when they're idling and smell nothing. The bad part is that they guzzle fuel, don't go very fast, and are unreliable (and horrible seats).

See, I'm a practical guy. There's great buses out there, but most buses are still meh. Especially the new toys. If Greyhound put better seats in them, I probably wouldn't be so mad. And even worse, the new seats are low to the ground and block up your legroom. They left out one row for extra legroom, thank God. If they hadn't, I could see it being unbearable for the average American.

Now, of course, the DL3 has a good amount of legroom, though this one has the most (but is slightly worse at some other Aspects so only get 56 points): https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/14603667207/.

Oh yeah, DL3 now has 61 Points. Not that it's perfect; nothing's perfect, DL3 has very poor maneuverability that the driver will have to deal with.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 2, 2014)

My issue with busses is legroom and predictability. It sounds like there have been some improvements in seating in some busses. This is good.

I had a really poor experience with greyhound in chicago a few years ago. I was meeting a friend coming in from stl. I advised her to let me know when the bus left 95th street. She called and I timed my arrival so that I would be in the bus station a few minutes before arrival.

The monitors were not clear to me, and I asked s greyhound person which gate the bus was arriving at. She brushed me off telling me to wait wait in an area away from the gates. I explained that I wanted to assist with luggage. She was was ruder the second time around. I told her that the hsr to stl would put greyhound out of business if people like her didnt straighten up. I walked away. She sent a police officer over to scold me. He threatened to remove me from the terminal. I explained my original request and asked him to help me with deciphering the monitors. He at least then tried to help.

I told my friend I would pay for her amtrak ticket to avoid having to return to the bus station. I know this is one experience but I have butted heads with amtrak emplyees and have been threatened by the police.

Megabus is intriguing, but standing outside with no way of determing bus status is a turn off. In general its hard to get accurate info on cta busses even with tracking. .


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 3, 2014)

I've had my share of poor experiences with Greyhound. One time I was in Sacramento taking pictures and the security guard stopped me then prepared to kick me out. I explained that I was on the vehicle that I was taking a picture of (it was going to Reno) and he just told me not to take pictures and walked away.

That's my biggest complaint against Greyhound: the stupid anti-photography policy. The second-biggest complaint has got to be those painful new seats.

I had a worse experience with Orange Belt Stages (not Greyhound) on the outbound leg of the Las Vegas trip. The driver saw me taking pictures and made me delete them even though Orange Belt Stages has no anti-photography policy. I held the right to refuse deletion but the driver seemed eager to eject me so I decided to play it safe.

Orange Belt also further f--ked me up by having a sink in the lavatory that was not stocked with water. So only a tiny trickle came out when I pushed either handle to the max. And there was no hand sanitizer.

I complained to both Orange Belt and Silver State but have never gotten any response from either.

I am glad that Greyhound Reno allows roaming which is definitely better than Chicago. Whenever I pick anyone up, I can just stand there and watch the motorcoach pull in. The terminal manager in Reno is meh, not too bad but not great either. One guy (older) working the counter is great, the other one, not so professional, though not mean, either. Same goes for the two women, the older one is nicer, the younger one is mean. There's another guy too, the guy that cleans the buses and refuels them. He never seems to man to counter. The drivers are nice, but they get paid much more.

These men generally do all kinds of work from manning the counter, to cleaning, to refueling, to baggage handling. Generally, they're paid poorly, though the older, friendlier one never does the dirty work and always wears a clean blue polo shirt. I think he could be a dispatcher or maybe even an extra driver. I don't chitchat with the station guys because there's always a mean or unprofessional one on duty alongside a friendly one. The drivers are much better but there's a few bad ones too, generally the extra drivers and/or the rookies just trying to make some cash.

Also, they NEVER pick up the phone. That's no biggie for me, since I know what to do anyway, but I can see that being a big problem.

This bus of my OP, BTW, is the same thing Megabus uses except single-deck. It's also what the Chinatown buses were/are. They're cheap and readily-available. I heard these Van Hools are like "fast food buses"; if you need a cheap bus and you need it right now, get a Van Hool. This one's leased but everything Silver State has is a Van Hool.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 3, 2014)

Since you are a motorcoach enthusiast you know your way around and dont need the help of emplyees. And overlook some of the bs. It is similar with me. My gf notices that I can be pretty tolerant of some parts of amtrak.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 3, 2014)

True. That photography ban is really horrible BS though. And those horrible new seats. Those are pretty big problems IMO. The photography ban is useless because of the proliferation of smartphones and only does to deter enthusiast photographers like me. The new seats are significantly worse than the old seats, almost as bad as school bus seats, and makes me want to run away from Greyhound's new buses that are in all those ads.

Too bad the DL3's probably never going to be used for a bustitution since most bustitutions are charter buses and charter buses require maneuverability for those school and event charters. DL3s have the biggest turning circle around, akin to a tractor-trailer, and are unpopular with charter operators. OTOH, this horrible Van Hool turns on a dime and is very popular with charters, so in turn, they are very popular with bustitutions.

That being said, there's some great buses out there that are both maneuverable and comfortable, one being the President's motorhome LOL.


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## GG-1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Steve4031 said:


> Im not an entertainer.


Sure you are, ask Even.

Aloha


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## Steve4031 (Dec 5, 2014)

What did I do to entertain even? I just sat and looked out the window.


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## TVRM610 (Dec 15, 2014)

Once when picking up my tickets, a Greyhound agent wanted to see my ID, the credit card used to purchase tickets, and my friends ID (the name on the second ticket).. just to pick up tickets at will call. I thought that was a little much but I complied... then when I had to sign for my ticket, the agent told me he couldn't read my signature. I said.. well that's my signature though... and he said "it has to be legible" and I said "I can print my name, or I can give you my signature, which do you want?" - I just printed my name next to my signature but that whole experience really turned me off on greyhound... especially when all I have to do is show my phone to the mega bus driver and hop on.

As for regional lines.. Jefferson Lines runs from Kansas City - Omaha - Fargo - with some sort of decent connections to Amtrak trains. Jefferson Lines has served me really well.. decent busses, friendly drivers and ticket agents, and decent waiting areas with free wi-fi.


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## Steve4031 (Dec 16, 2014)

Your experience sums up my expectations of greyhound. Pathetic ignorance paired with crappy attitudes.

The people make or break a company. The bus driver on my bustitution between Pittsburg and washington was polite. He did get lost on the way into Washington, D.C. He had a gps, but a combination of his not following it, and it being slow to reroute complicated the situation.

I could see that he was struggling and offered to help navigate using google maps. I made a point of being discrete. At first he was guarded, but after I proved myself as desiring to help rather then complain we worked together. Nobody missed connections on this trip. So no real harm. He thanked me. Several other passengers on the bus did too. The driver explained that this was a last minute assignment.

This guy was pretty decent and left me with a favorable impression of that bus company.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 16, 2014)

That's what Greyhound always does, they always need ID and credit card to pick up tickets. It's supposed to prevent people from buying tickets for others. If you don't like it, so be it.

You can still buy tickets for others, but you'll need to pay an extra $18 fee. Again, trying to prevent people from buying tickets for others.

I guess that's why the signature needs to be legible: trying to prevent people from buying tickets for others.


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## AmtrakBlue (Dec 16, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> That's what Greyhound always does, they always need ID and credit card to pick up tickets. It's supposed to prevent people from buying tickets for others. If you don't like it, so be it.
> 
> You can still buy tickets for others, but you'll need to pay an extra $18 fee. Again, trying to prevent people from buying tickets for others.
> 
> I guess that's why the signature needs to be legible: trying to prevent people from buying tickets for others.


Everyone does not have legible signatures, but they are their signatures. Have you ever seen a doctor's signature?


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 16, 2014)

Why on earth does Greyhound care who you buy tickets for long as the credit card is good or the cash isn't counterfit?

They're in the business of selling tickets to passengers, are they afraid undesirables will ride or someone unknown will hijack a coach to Omaha?

Crazy business practice IMHO!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 16, 2014)

Yeah, I know, the signature part is dumb. The not buying tickets for other people part is that they don't want a person buying tickets for family and/or friends. Logic is apparently based on people not paying for their own tickets having a higher chance of causing a disruption on the motorcoach.

Like, if you have a mentally-challenged husband, then you buy tickets for him, but you're not going with him and he gets on the bus by himself, he could cause a disruption and he didn't pay for the ticket. So they charge the $18 fee to discourage people that didn't buy their own tickets from getting on the bus by themselves. Whoever paid for the ticket will have to go with him to avoid paying that $18, hence the credit card. The person who paid for the ticket would keep an eye on him and would stop any disruption, because a disruption gets you kicked off the bus, voiding the ticket and wasting all the money. Failure to show the credit card or ID would result in being forced to pay $18 extra or being forced to buy another ticket.

You can switch out that husband for anybody else.


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## jebr (Dec 16, 2014)

That's really dumb logic, honestly. And is all the more reason I'm glad Spirit Airlines is as cheap as Greyhound...less dumb rules like that (though Spirit has plenty of their own crazy rules.)


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 16, 2014)

Well, didn't Nevada dump a bunch of insane people into California on unaccompanied Greyhound rides?

Edit: http://www.sacbee.com/news/investigations/nevada-patient-busing/article2577189.html.


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## jebr (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't think $18 is going to stop Nevada from sending mentally ill people on the bus to get out of their state. Meanwhile, it hurts those who actually want to buy tickets for other people.

Heck, even the interline carriers can figure out how to make it work (for example, I was able to buy my girlfriend a ticket back up here to visit me via Jefferson Lines and paid no additional fee for it.) Megabus allows it as well. It's an asinine policy of Greyhound's, and it should be eliminated.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 16, 2014)

But it might stop mommy from sending her unruly teen on a bus to grandma's.

I'm wondering why your GF could not buy a ticket for herself?


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 16, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> But it might stop mommy from sending her unruly teen on a bus to grandma's.
> 
> I'm wondering why your GF could not buy a ticket for herself?


Social norms aren't the same in different parts of the country! Paying for a girl or boyfriend' s visit when you invite them is considered SOP most places! 
Other reasons included one party having the means to do so and just plain goodness of heart!


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## jebr (Dec 16, 2014)

Swadian Hardcore said:


> But it might stop mommy from sending her unruly teen on a bus to grandma's.
> 
> I'm wondering why your GF could not buy a ticket for herself?


It might also stop mommy from sending her well-behaved teen on a bus to grandma's.

And she's perfectly capable of doing so, but for numerous reasons it was easier for me to buy the ticket. I'm glad JL, Amtrak, Megabus, and, frankly, any other transportation company I'm aware of doesn't see it necessary to charge me $18 for doing so.


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 16, 2014)

How would Greyhound know that mommy's teen is a well-behaved teen? And if the teen is too well-behaved, he might get into a scuffle on the bus. That's because of the other, not-so-well-behaved passengers on the bus.

What numerous reasons?


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## jebr (Dec 16, 2014)

How does Greyhound know that mommy's teen is unruly?

And there's jimhudson's reason, and other reasons that frankly I'm not wanting to share publicly or privately, because it doesn't matter.


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## tp49 (Dec 17, 2014)

jimhudson said:


> Why on earth does Greyhound care who you buy tickets for long as the credit card is good or the cash isn't counterfit?
> 
> They're in the business of selling tickets to passengers, are they afraid undesirables will ride or someone unknown will hijack a coach to Omaha?
> 
> Crazy business practice IMHO!


I thought Greyhound's issue was that undesirables do ride them (at least by reputation.) *ducks* :giggle:

Not allowing someone to buy a ticket for someone else save for an $18 fee is a crap business practice. I might even go further and say that practice is discriminatory in nature. Greyhound already doesn't have a good reputation and this doesn't really help. Additionally, the defenses offered for said business practices defy any rational logic or common sense. Even the most draconian of *gasp* airlines don't do this.

Not that I would ever subject my mother to a cross-country bus ride but knowing that if I wanted to buy a bus ticket for her to come visit me I would incur such a fee guarantees that my business will go to an airline company, Amtrak or a common carrier that understands at least this basic customer service practice.


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## caravanman (Dec 17, 2014)

Is it in print that the $18 fee for buying another persons ticket is to stop unruly passengers boarding, or is this Swadian's opinion ?

Certainly, a lot of I.D. nonsense seems to go on in the US, for whatever reason... The idea that you have to have a readable signature is just so funny.

We British just buy a ticket and get on our trains, we don't have to have any I.D. to travel about in our own country!

Ed.


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 17, 2014)

Excellent point About the ID mania in the US Eddie! "Papers please!" brings to mind a East German Border Guard in the Cold War Days! ( as does the Homeland Security name which brings to mind the Brown shirts and Monsters that took over Germany in the 30s)

All of the Lunatics that were involved in the 911 Tragedy had valid Passports, Visas etc. and boarded the Planes through Airport Security which admittedly was somewhat lax then but what difference would a picture ID have made?


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## jis (Dec 28, 2014)

God am I glad I have not had to deal with Greyhound in over two decades!


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## Swadian Hardcore (Dec 28, 2014)

That's just my opinion. Greyhound says it's for fraud prevention. The ID is apparently for safety or for fraud prevention. The alcohol ban is federal regulation as is the smoking ban. Anything could be for reduction of Greyhound's prior customer base, as in, their reputation for suspicious passengers.

Right now I'm pissed off at Greyhound and their inconsistent MCI D4505s with terribly uncomfortable American Seating. In the future, my Greyhound rides will drop considerably as I take active evasion of D4505s and American Seating. I was going to rant on Greyhound's Facebook page (I got a FB account) but decided against it because the D4505s and American Seating are here to stay anyway, though Greyhound is already shopping around for other seating to buy in the future and doesn't have a big chance of buying more D4505s.

Pissed, pissed, pissed!

NO MORE F---KING D4505s MIT F---KING AMERICAN SEATING, GREYHOUND!


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## v v (Jan 27, 2015)

Swadian, is there any way I can look up which bus(es) is on the route we are taking in March?

Thanks


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