# Rail stations at Airports



## TheCrescent (Apr 30, 2022)

A Norfolk Southern-operated line and rail yard are on the Charlotte airport premises, not far from the main Charlotte station and uptown Charlotte.

Why not build an Amtrak station at the Charlotte airport and extend Piedmont trains to serve it? Flights to GSO, for example, could be replaced with trains.


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## WWW (May 1, 2022)

If only N&S would allow entertain permit share this idea - "BUT" I think selfishly NOT !

The idea of a rail stop next to a major airport works well with the Milwaukee (MKE-MKA) and the Baltimore DC (BWI) airports.
One note the frequency of making this work is dependent on the number of flights to a large airport - certainly Charlotte (CLT) qualifies 
as it is a hub city for American Airlines - but there is a problem with the number of trains operating/stopping to make the connection.
BWI Baltimore has frequent Amtrak trains making this work - and MKE Milwaukee a smaller number but still workable.


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## MARC Rider (May 1, 2022)

Actually, I'm not sure that the BWI Amtrak station is really "at the airport" as it requires waiting for a shuttle bus and a significant ride through traffic to get from the train station and the terminal. Infact, I'm not sure if there are any Amtrak stations where the station is actually located in the Airport terminal. The only airports in the US I know of that have any kind of rail stations at the terminal are Philadelphia (SEPTA regional rail), BWI (light rail), Chicago (MTA), San Fransisco (BART), Miami (Metro), and maybe New York-JFK if you count the Airtrain and Newark if you count the monorail. It would be nice if there were Amtrak stations right in the airport terminals, even better if Amtrak could codeshare with an airline and have their stop inside the security perimeter, maybe even with through-checking of baggage, but that would require a lot of effort.


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## joelkfla (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Actually, I'm not sure that the BWI Amtrak station is really "at the airport" as it requires waiting for a shuttle bus and a significant ride through traffic to get from the train station and the terminal. Infact, I'm not sure if there are any Amtrak stations where the station is actually located in the Airport terminal. The only airports in the US I know of that have any kind of rail stations at the terminal are Philadelphia (SEPTA regional rail), BWI (light rail), Chicago (MTA), San Fransisco (BART), Miami (Metro), and maybe New York-JFK if you count the Airtrain and Newark if you count the monorail. It would be nice if there were Amtrak stations right in the airport terminals, even better if Amtrak could codeshare with an airline and have their stop inside the security perimeter, maybe even with through-checking of baggage, but that would require a lot of effort.


Add Orlando (Brightline), although service will not start until early next year.


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## jis (May 1, 2022)

Miami has TriRail, and maybe eventually Amtrak


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## Metra Electric Rider (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Actually, I'm not sure that the BWI Amtrak station is really "at the airport" as it requires waiting for a shuttle bus and a significant ride through traffic to get from the train station and the terminal. Infact, I'm not sure if there are any Amtrak stations where the station is actually located in the Airport terminal. The only airports in the US I know of that have any kind of rail stations at the terminal are Philadelphia (SEPTA regional rail), BWI (light rail), Chicago (MTA), San Fransisco (BART), Miami (Metro), and maybe New York-JFK if you count the Airtrain and Newark if you count the monorail. It would be nice if there were Amtrak stations right in the airport terminals, even better if Amtrak could codeshare with an airline and have their stop inside the security perimeter, maybe even with through-checking of baggage, but that would require a lot of effort.


Cleveland too - first airport in the nation with subway service!


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## Ryan (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Actually, I'm not sure that the BWI Amtrak station is really "at the airport" as it requires waiting for a shuttle bus and a significant ride through traffic to get from the train station and the terminal.


It isn’t that significant. Hell, the rental cars are twice as far. You (potentially) have to wait to turn left at a single traffic light.


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## MARC Rider (May 1, 2022)

jis said:


> Miami has TriRail, and maybe eventually Amtrak


Well, you do have to take the people mover from the train station/rental car center to the actual terminal.



Metra Electric Rider said:


> Cleveland too - first airport in the nation with subway service!


Right. Also Washington DC Reagan National Airport has metro service right to the terminal. Not sure where the Dulles station is going to be when they finish the Silver Line.


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## Palmland (May 1, 2022)

I remember Metro at Burbank being an easy walk into the terminal. And maybe TriRail at Ft Lauderdale. 

Every time I’ve taken off from Charlotte I think it would be so easy to add a stop for Piedmonts. Maybe after the new station is built downtown.


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## west point (May 1, 2022)

Then we have ATL airport. MARTA station is inside airport terminal (west end). One proposal option for the HrSR has ATL airport as final stop. However, HrSR is a very in the future as a slight possibility to happen.


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## MARC Rider (May 1, 2022)

I also forgot the A train at Denver.


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## WWW (May 1, 2022)

Well in both cases of Milwaukee and Baltimore - close is a cigar - the rail stop requires a shuttle vehicle to go the airport terminal 
but it is no worse than moving within airports with remote satellite gates.
I definitely relish having more options to freely move about the country to get where I plan on going.
Sometimes going to Chicago in lieu of the late EB #8 - I fly to Milwaukee and take the Hiawatha train right into the downtown center
beats the long trek from O'Hara or the short one from Midway.
MSP has light rail from the Mall of America stopping at both airport terminals and thence to downtown Mpls activities and an
awkward connection to downtown St Paul and the Amtrak Union Depot - faster by the bus (ugg) - light rail is a controversial button
issue while not perfect it is a solution to moving the people masses in tight towering residential areas.


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## Ryan (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Not sure where the Dulles station is going to be when they finish the Silver Line.


Across the parking lot, accessed by underground walkway (platform is where it says "authorized vehicle crossover" at the top-center) - closer than any of the outlying gates:


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## jis (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Well, you do have to take the people mover from the train station/rental car center to the actual terminal.


The Metro station is right next to the TriRail station. So your claim is that the Metro is at the airport but TriRail is not? OK.


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## MARC Rider (May 1, 2022)

jis said:


> The Metro station is right next to the TriRail station. So your claim is that the Metro is at the airport but TriRail is not? OK.


Oh, OK, then I take back that Miami Metro directly serves the airport terminal. Sorry. My only experience involves returning a rental car to the site (The train stations and the rental car center are at the same place) and then riding the people mover to the terminal so we could get shuttle bus back to our hotel. I knew that Tri-Rail served the rental car center, but didn't notice the metro station.


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## joelkfla (May 1, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Oh, OK, then I take back that Miami Metro directly serves the airport terminal. Sorry. My only experience involves returning a rental car to the site (The train stations and the rental car center are at the same place) and then riding the people mover to the terminal so we could get shuttle bus back to our hotel. I knew that Tri-Rail served the rental car center, but didn't notice the metro station.


Same for Newark. The train station is off property. The monorail you mentioned is the airport's APM.

And what about DFW? The TEXrail and DART stations aren't _in _a terminal, but each is adjacent to and a short walk from one of the terminals.

I don't see the distinction between a station being in a terminal building and being at a stop a few minutes away on the airport's APM. Even if the station is in a terminal building, it's likely that passengers will have to use the APM (or walk a long ways) to get to other terminal buildings.


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## neroden (May 1, 2022)

OK, I just reviewed the maps. This is a *very good idea*. Have you talked to the Charlotte City government, the NC State government, the Mecklenburg County government? 

It took me a while to track the routes, but the Crescent appears to run right along the line through the airport. A siding and platform could be built adjacent to "Parking Long Term 3". The shuttle bus already operates. If there isn't room for a long enough platform there (~800 feet if you can't extend under the bridges), then next to "Parking Long Term 4" (east of Josh Birmingham Parkway) there is definitely enough room (3000+ feet). Again, the shuttle bus already operates.

The Carolinian or Piedmont would have to extend to here and then backtrack to their maintenance base in downtown Charlotte; the Crescent could run through.

The City owns the airport, so they are probably the ones to talk to first.


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## west point (May 1, 2022)

Before any discussion of CLT airport station let CLT get the new downtown station built. Maybe by time CLT station built it may be light rail be planned to go to the airport.


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## Willbridge (May 2, 2022)

Salt Lake City and Portland have LRT for their respective airports and Amtrak stations, but both systems chose to set the routes up with a transfer. It's not hard to do in either city, but the typical air traveler goes blank when they hear it.


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## CaptPete 43 (May 2, 2022)

If one wants to include subways, Boston Logan has dual access, Blue Line and Silver Line. The Silver Line goes directly to each terminal and originates at South Station with AMTRAK, MBTA commuter rail, and the total Boston subway system.

We live 1 mile from a MBTA commuter rail station and have used this to access AMTRAK and the Silver Line for flights out of Logan International Airport (BOS).

Using rail to South Station and the Silver Line to Logan, one is never outside until they exit the Silver Line at their terminal. Also, there are elevators to access, no stairs or escalators are required.


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## dwebarts (May 2, 2022)

Palmland said:


> I remember Metro at Burbank being an easy walk into the terminal. And maybe TriRail at Ft Lauderdale.
> 
> Every time I’ve taken off from Charlotte I think it would be so easy to add a stop for Piedmonts. Maybe after the new station is built downtown.


I love flying into Burbank. It's convenient on so many levels. The problem is that it's not feasible, cost-wise, for passengers in most of the country.


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## neroden (May 2, 2022)

It's the location of the rail line which makes putting a Charlotte Airport station on the rail line so plausible in the fairly short term. It's *right there*. NS would probably demand a siding and a platform, possibly two sidings and platforms, but we're talking maybe $5-10 million here. NS probably won't throw a fit over the added train movements for the Piedmont and Carolinian (from one platform siding to another, then back), either. Any light rail line to the airport would take far longer to construct.


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## TheCrescent (May 2, 2022)

neroden said:


> OK, I just reviewed the maps. This is a *very good idea*. Have you talked to the Charlotte City government, the NC State government, the Mecklenburg County government?
> 
> It took me a while to track the routes, but the Crescent appears to run right along the line through the airport. A siding and platform could be built adjacent to "Parking Long Term 3". The shuttle bus already operates. If there isn't room for a long enough platform there (~800 feet if you can't extend under the bridges), then next to "Parking Long Term 4" (east of Josh Birmingham Parkway) there is definitely enough room (3000+ feet). Again, the shuttle bus already operates.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I was involved in planning for CATS, the local transit authority. Planning included a light rail or express bus service to the airport. A station for heavy rail was never mentioned.


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## Michigan Mom (May 2, 2022)

What.A.Great.Idea!


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## Deni (May 3, 2022)

What I love about traveling to Europe is that there are so many airports with trains station right there, so many of them are part of the national network. (Rather than only a commuter line to the city center). It's such a shame we don't have more of that here.


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## cirdan (May 3, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> Cleveland too - first airport in the nation with subway service!



Dallas Fort-Worth is served by both DART and TexRail.


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## John Santos (May 3, 2022)

If you count Thruway buses, in 2019 I waited INSIDE the terminal at Las Vegas Airport for the Thruway bus to Kingman to catch the Chief. The driver came inside to fetch me.


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## NES28 (May 4, 2022)

Eventually, the Charlotte-Atlanta high-speed rail line, which has an approved Tier 1 EIS, will be built. It should have stops in tunnels under the terminals at both CLT and ATL airports.


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## west point (May 5, 2022)

Cannot imagine tunnel bores under ATL airport. Before the present terminal was built the underground portions were all installed with wells every 25 feet that pumped for 18 months before any excavation was started. Very high-water table around that area.


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## NES28 (May 5, 2022)

An interesting tidbit about ATL water table. Apparently, there is an engineering solution.


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## jis (May 5, 2022)

NES28 said:


> An interesting tidbit about ATL water table. Apparently, there is an engineering solution.


Exactly! This would not be the first time by a very very long shot that a tunnel was dug below the water table. Time to stretch ones imagination a bit I suppose.


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## PRR 60 (May 5, 2022)

There was a time when Amtrak served a major airport. This was service to a station in the airport terminal – not just nearby. It occurred in 1990 when Amtrak started service to the SEPTA stations in Philadelphia International Airport (PHL). As far as I know, it was the one and only time Amtrak had a stop in an airport terminal.

In late 1989, Midway Airlines (ML) established a hub operation at PHL airport (purchased from floundering Eastern Airlines). At the same time, Amtrak was struggling to build ridership on its Atlantic City service. In what was hoped would help both parties, Amtrak and Midway agreed to start a codeshare operation where Amtrak would provide connecting “flights” for Midway between its PHL airport hub and Atlantic City (then in the early years of legalized casino gambling). Three existing Philadelphia – Atlantic City trains were extended from 30th Street Station to the PHL airport stations via the NEC and the SEPTA airport line. 

This was a true codeshare arrangement with Amtrak trains assigned ML flight numbers. For ML passengers, ticketing for both the train and plane was on ML stock and checked baggage was handled end-to-end. Checked baggage on the train was carried in an empty portion of one of the Amfleet coaches (there was lots of empty space on the lightly patronized Atlantic City trains). ML had a ticket and baggage counter at the Atlantic City Rail Terminal (airport code ZRA). Departing passengers would check in there, drop checked baggage and board the train heading for their on-going flight with no need to check in again at PHL. Atlantic City-bound ML passengers arriving at PHL were often surprised to find their connecting “flight” to Atlantic City was departing from the SEPTA train station.

Running Amtrak to the PHL airport via SEPTA was not as easy as one would think. The SEPTA line from the upper level of 30th Street to the airport is operationally separated from the Amtrak NEC. For Amtrak trains using the 30th Street lower level and the NEC to access the SEPTA airport line required use of a short connection called the “escape track.” As the name “escape track” suggests, the Amtrak/SEPTA connector was intended for irregular operation, not for scheduled service. It was very low speed with tight curve radius and no nearby interlocking on the NEC to facilitate crossovers. Using the escape track required some wrong way running on the NEC and manual dispatching by both Amtrak and SEPTA. Escape track use was a PITA for both railroads. Turned out they did not have to deal with it for very long.

Midway ran into serious financial issues and closed its PHL hub in the fall of 1990 thus ending Amtrak’s service to PHL airport just a few months after it started. Midway ceased all operation in 1991. Amtrak’s Atlantic City service went away in 1995 after multiple efforts to find a customer base (like the ML codeshare) failed. Philadelphia - Atlantic City rail service is now operated by NJ Transit. A continuing legacy of the Amtrak Atlantic City service is the joint ticketing arrangement between Amtrak and NJ Transit – the only such Amtrak – NJ Transit arrangement.


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## cirdan (May 6, 2022)

jis said:


> Exactly! This would not be the first time by a very very long shot that a tunnel was dug below the water table. Time to stretch ones imagination a bit I suppose.



It wouldn't be the first time that a tunnel has been dug below an operational airport runway either.

There's nothing that money can't buy. The bigger challenge is getting the money.

That said, and considering the situation in Atlanta, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper if a rail station or transportation hub were built at a peripheral location and the present existing gadgetbahn extended to serve it. The way the airport is built now you would probably have to use the gadgetbahn anyway as the train should serve all terminals and not just one.


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## railiner (May 6, 2022)

jis said:


> Exactly! This would not be the first time by a very very long shot that a tunnel was dug below the water table. Time to stretch ones imagination a bit I suppose.


Doesn’t the Airtrain at JFK fit that description, where it ducks under the taxiway?


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## Metra Electric Rider (May 6, 2022)

My suspicion is that any new airport stations (unless there is a truly massive airport somewhere, I'm talking globally here) will be one station that will funnel fliers through the security checkpoint rather than a specific terminal and intra/inter-terminal travel will be by gadgetbahns or people movers.


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## joelkfla (May 6, 2022)

Metra Electric Rider said:


> My suspicion is that any new airport stations (unless there is a truly massive airport somewhere, I'm talking globally here) will be one station that will funnel fliers through the security checkpoint rather than a specific terminal and intra/inter-terminal travel will be by gadgetbahns or people movers.


Airport APM's are generally outside security. I know there are a few airports that have airside transportation between terminals, but I don't think it's very common.


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## jis (May 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Airport APM's are generally outside security. I know there are a few airports that have airside transportation between terminals, but I don't think it's very common.


Well, the following biggies with airside APMs that come to mind:

Orlando International, Washington Dulles, Denver International, Frankfurt International, Houston Intercontinental, among others. I don't think they are all that uncommon.

Of course Orlando now has both airside and landside.


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## blueman271 (May 6, 2022)

MARC Rider said:


> Actually, I'm not sure that the BWI Amtrak station is really "at the airport" as it requires waiting for a shuttle bus and a significant ride through traffic to get from the train station and the terminal. Infact, I'm not sure if there are any Amtrak stations where the station is actually located in the Airport terminal. The only airports in the US I know of that have any kind of rail stations at the terminal are Philadelphia (SEPTA regional rail), BWI (light rail), Chicago (MTA), San Fransisco (BART), Miami (Metro), and maybe New York-JFK if you count the Airtrain and Newark if you count the monorail. It would be nice if there were Amtrak stations right in the airport terminals, even better if Amtrak could codeshare with an airline and have their stop inside the security perimeter, maybe even with through-checking of baggage, but that would require a lot of effort.


The setup in Miami is exactly the same as Newark and JFK. To get to the airport from the local transit system one must ride a people mover that connects the two. In Miami it is called the MIA Mover.



Palmland said:


> I remember Metro at Burbank being an easy walk into the terminal. And maybe TriRail at Ft Lauderdale.
> 
> Every time I’ve taken off from Charlotte I think it would be so easy to add a stop for Piedmonts. Maybe after the new station is built downtown.


The connection from Ft Lauderdale airport to the Tri-Rail station requires a shuttle bus. The train station and airport are on opposite sides of I-95.


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## cirdan (May 6, 2022)

blueman271 said:


> The connection from Ft Lauderdale airport to the Tri-Rail station requires a shuttle bus. The train station and airport are on opposite sides of I-95.



Whereas FEC / Brightline passes right by the airport (if not actually being technically within the perimeter) ... a missed opportunity?


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## jis (May 6, 2022)

cirdan said:


> Whereas FEC / Brightline passes right by the airport (if not actually being technically within the perimeter) ... a missed opportunity?


A station is planned at Fort Lauderdale Airport in conjunction with the North East Corridor project. It is designed to allow some Brightline trains to call there. It is unlikely that all Brightline trains will call there though. But it will be easy to take TriRail Coastal Service one stop to Fort Lauderdale and catch Brightline there.


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## joelkfla (May 6, 2022)

jis said:


> Well, the following biggies with airside APMs that come to mind:
> 
> Orlando International, Washington Dulles, Denver International, Frankfurt International, Houston Intercontinental, among others. I don't think they are all that uncommon.
> 
> Of course Orlandoi now has both airside and landside.


I was talking about airside APM's between terminals, as the PP seemed to be suggesting putting a security checkpoint for the entire airport at a train station.

Orlando currently has one active terminal building; the APM's are just shuttles to the satellite airside pods. IIRC, you can't even transfer between pods that share security, because the shuttle dumps you outside security at the terminal. (Maybe that depends on which of the 2 shuttle tracks you're on.) When Terminal C opens, the APM between it and the existing terminal will be outside security.

I know there are airports with terminal transfers inside security, but I don't do a whole lot of flying, and I don't know the set-up of the others you listed. JFK & NWK APM's are outside security; I don't know whether they also have an airside shuttle bus. I think in some cases, airside shuttles are just between terminals or concourses used by a single airline with a major hub at the airport.


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## jebr (May 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I was talking about airside APM's between terminals, as the PP seemed to be suggesting putting a security checkpoint for the entire airport at a train station.



I guess it depends on what you define as a "terminal." Denver has a centralized check-in area, but the three different terminal buildings are connected via APMs inside security. Atlanta's similar (though the international check-in area is separate, but also connected airside with the full terminals' APM,) as is Las Vegas. I've never been to Orlando, so I don't know how that would differ from those (or from JFK where the terminals are connected landside.) Maybe it's JFK's lack of a centralized check-in area for most airlines? But yes, you'd probably need a centralized check-in area with baggage drop (similar to DEN or MCO) for it to work well, since otherwise people would need to stay landside until they were able to check in and drop off their bags.


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## jis (May 6, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I know there are airports with terminal transfers inside security, but I don't do a whole lot of flying, and I don't know the set-up of the others you listed. JFK & NWK APM's are outside security; I don't know whether they also have an airside shuttle bus. I think in some cases, airside shuttles are just between terminals or concourses used by a single airline with a major hub at the airport.


OK. I just happen to have listed airports each of which I have frequented. I am going to desist from hairsplitting about terminals, pods and what not, since it is pretty pointless IMHO.

United has an airside shuttle bus connecting at least A and C at Newark. I don't know about JFK. I have not used it in dogs years.

In any case I will leave you to your thoughts


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## DCAKen (May 9, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> I was talking about airside APM's between terminals, as the PP seemed to be suggesting putting a security checkpoint for the entire airport at a train station.
> 
> Orlando currently has one active terminal building; the APM's are just shuttles to the satellite airside pods. IIRC, you can't even transfer between pods that share security, because the shuttle dumps you outside security at the terminal. (Maybe that depends on which of the 2 shuttle tracks you're on.) When Terminal C opens, the APM between it and the existing terminal will be outside security.
> 
> I know there are airports with terminal transfers inside security, but I don't do a whole lot of flying, and I don't know the set-up of the others you listed. JFK & NWK APM's are outside security; I don't know whether they also have an airside shuttle bus. I think in some cases, airside shuttles are just between terminals or concourses used by a single airline with a major hub at the airport.



DFW has multiple terminals (each with their own security checkpoints) that are connected by the SkyLink system that is inside security.


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## TheCrescent (May 15, 2022)

I see that there is a VRE rail line at Reagan National Airport, just outside the entrance. 

Maybe Amtrak should focus on building stations at airports generally, and working with airlines to coordinate schedules and ticketing. With a pilot shortage, perhaps airlines would be more open to this than before. I would think that getting funding for station construction might be obtainable from airport construction funds in some cases.


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## DCAKen (May 18, 2022)

TheCrescent said:


> I see that there is a VRE rail line at Reagan National Airport, just outside the entrance.



It's not a particularly easy way for people to transfer from the VRE station to DCA, with at least a mile-long roundabout walk. A proposed pedestrian bridge would make this easier.


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## jis (May 18, 2022)

DCAKen said:


> It's not a particularly easy way for people to transfer from the VRE station to DCA, with at least a mile-long roundabout walk. A proposed pedestrian bridge would make this easier.


Until the pedestrian bridge comes to pass, one could avoid the very long walk by a considerably shorter long walk (  ) by transferring to WMATA Blue or Yellow Line at Crystal City and take it one stop to National Airport.


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## crescent-zephyr (May 18, 2022)

joelkfla said:


> Airport APM's are generally outside security. I know there are a few airports that have airside transportation between terminals, but I don't think it's very common.



I think they are generally inside security. At least in my experience. 

But they can certainly be built either way depending on the needs of the system. 

Most major airports require long walks and / or a ride on a people mover to get to terminal / gate. Saying that same type of walk and / or ride makes a rail station “separate” from the airport is silly. 

We need more intermodal transit connections in this country. It makes so much sense.


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## George Harris (May 19, 2022)

jis said:


> Until the pedestrian bridge comes to pass, one could avoid the very long walk by a considerably shorter long walk (  ) by transferring to WMATA Blue or Yellow Line at Crystal City and take it one stop to National Airport.


If coming from / going to the south, make the transfer at Alexandria, VA, then take any WMATA train north to DCA. If you need to go to Dulles, then you take a Blue line train north to Rosslyn and change to a Silver Line train for the long haul out to Dulles. The Amtrak station and the WMATA station are adjacent and parallel at Alexandria. (Back in the 70's when I was working on WMATA the line to Dulles was a maybe someday, but probably never extension of the system. The squawk at that time of the WMATA planning was that the DCA station was not immediately adjacent to the airport terminal as it was at that time. The terminal expansion has made it more central to WMATA.)


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## TheVig (Jun 16, 2022)

I’m a resident of Charlotte. There has been a lot of discussion about getting our light rail to make a stop as close to the front door of the airport as possible. In an ideal world we would like something like PHL has. Walk right out of baggage claim, and straight onto SEPTA. Most likely not gonna happen. Best we will probably get some day, is a endless circle of shuttle buses from a train stop to the terminal. Better than nothing I guess. 

As far as someone taking a train from CLT to GSO, we are gonna need a lot more frequency in Piedmont trains. Despite the ebbs and flows of the political environment in Raleigh, our ridership steadily grows on the Piedmonts. Always a lot of talk to increase frequency between Charlotte and Raleigh, but it’s just that talk. 

We definitely need to get our new station built. Current station is unattractive and out of sight and out of mind to the downtown crowd. Once the new station is built, and those that live and work in the high rises see the passenger trains throughout their day, then maybe even more interest will take shape. Therefore demand more frequency. 

I sometimes have to pinch myself and be appreciative of what we do have though.


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## Trollopian (Jun 16, 2022)

George Harris said:


> If coming from / going to the south, make the transfer at Alexandria, VA, then take any WMATA train north to DCA. If you need to go to Dulles, then you take a Blue line train north to Rosslyn and change to a Silver Line train for the long haul out to Dulles. The Amtrak station and the WMATA station are adjacent and parallel at Alexandria. (Back in the 70's when I was working on WMATA the line to Dulles was a maybe someday, but probably never extension of the system. The squawk at that time of the WMATA planning was that the DCA station was not immediately adjacent to the airport terminal as it was at that time. The terminal expansion has made it more central to WMATA.)



Just a gentle reminder that it's not yet possible to take the Silver Line all the way to Dulles. Current prediction is fall 2022/winter 2023. (See post at US Airports and Transit Connections.) Right now, you'd take the Silver Line to its terminus at Reston Town Center then transfer to a bus. Pretty good bus, from what I hear, but still a bus.


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## jis (Jun 16, 2022)

Trollopian said:


> Just a gentle reminder that it's not yet possible to take the Silver Line all the way to Dulles. Current prediction is fall 2022/winter 2023. (See post at US Airports and Transit Connections.) Right now, you'd take the Silver Line to its terminus at Reston Town Center then transfer to a bus. Pretty good bus, from what I hear, but still a bus.


I have taken that bus connection from Silver Line many times. While it is still a bus, it is still quite convenient for $5.
In my experience the Silver Line to bus transfer was at Wiehle-Reston East. When did that change?


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## Trollopian (Jun 17, 2022)

jis said:


> I have taken that bus connection from Silver Line many times. While it is still a bus, it is still quite convenient for $5.
> In my experience the Silver Line to bus transfer was at Wiehle-Reston East. When did that change?


You're right, I'm wrong...it's Wiehle-Reston East, the current terminus. "Reston Town Center" will be the next stop on the as-yet-unopened extension. As to the whole concept of a suburban town center, no comment.


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## ces Los Angeles (Jul 8, 2022)

With all the delays and cancellations going on at the airlines, I feel like it is a good opportunity to introduce people to train travel.. Why not put an Amtrak kiosk at the airport - then people have that option when their flights cancel.

At LAX there is already a Flyaway shuttle service that runs to Union Station. If someone is just trying to get to, say, Phoenix or San Francisco, it could be a very win-win opportunity for Amtrak.


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## west point (Jul 8, 2022)

Why? Amtrak cannot take any of the passengers anyway this summer. It is irresponsible to advertize Amtrak for this summer in an airport.that is essentially all booked up.


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## jis (Dec 30, 2022)

Just came across this article which is of relevance in this thread...









From trains to planes: Your guide to Amtrak stations at US airports - The Points Guy


Learn more about the four U.S. airports with Amtrak stations and ways you could use them on your next trip.




thepointsguy.com


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## zephyr17 (Dec 30, 2022)

ces Los Angeles said:


> If someone is just trying to get to, say, Phoenix or San Francisco, it could be a very win-win opportunity for Amtrak.


Well, I'd hold off on considering Phoenix a "win-win" with a triweekly train that leaves at 10 pm and dumps you off in Maricopa. 

If you want to demonstrate some Amtrak service as impractical for routine travel to those new to it, that's a very good one.


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## MIrailfan (Jan 2, 2023)

San Diego's airport is close enough to Santa Fe Depot where a people mover would work.


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## MARC Rider (Jan 2, 2023)

MIrailfan said:


> San Diego's airport is close enough to Santa Fe Depot where a people mover would work.


Are people movers cheaper to build and operate than light rail? If they aren't, then a spur from the existing light rail system would work just fine.


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## jis (Jan 2, 2023)

MARC Rider said:


> Are people movers cheaper to build and operate than light rail? If they aren't, then a spur from the existing light rail system would work just fine.


At least the San Diego one, if built, will be shorter than the JFK one. Neither makes the Airport have a Rail Station though. I doubt it will be built though, since the Bus connection works just fine for the existing and projected demand.


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## Anthony V (Jan 2, 2023)

In regards to the proposed Gulf Coast Amtrak line's Mobile station situation, it would make the most sense to have a station at the Brookley Aeroplex _and _downtown Mobile. It would be no different from the station situation in Milwaukee.


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## joelkfla (Jan 2, 2023)

jis said:


> At least the San Diego one, if built, will be shorter than the JFK one. Neither makes the Airport have a Rail Station though. I doubt it will be built though, since the Bus connection works just fine for the existing and projected demand.


Then would you say neither Newark nor Miami has a train station, since each requires an APM to get to the terminal?


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## jis (Jan 2, 2023)

joelkfla said:


> Then would you say neither Newark nor Miami has a train station, since each requires an APM to get to the terminal?


I consider a rail station at the airport to be an integral part of the airport terminal, not a remote site with a lengthy ride on something else. 

Actually many airports have internal APMs, and then the question boils down to whether the rail terminal connected by the APM is an integral part of the airport. Interestingly JFK is an extreme case of that since the Jamaica Terminal is apparently part of the airport on airport land!!! But one must admit that it is quite a stretch to suggest that JFK has a Rail Station in Jamaica, notwithstanding all that.

But getting back to San Diego, it is possible but quite unlikely that San Diego Airport would acquire land by the Amtrak station and build a terminal there. And even if it did, it would be more like the JFK situation than say the Miami, or EWR situation. Admittedly there is a slippery slope argument that could be made in either direction, when we have nothing better to spend our time on


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## MIrailfan (Jan 2, 2023)

MARC Rider said:


> Are people movers cheaper to build and operate than light rail? If they aren't, then a spur from the existing light rail system would work just fine.


True, depending on cost for the right of way and track.


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## PeeweeTM (Jan 3, 2023)

Schiphol Amsterdam airport (red arrow) in attached pdf-file representing Dutch passenger railway lines.
The fully coloured lines represent half-hourly service between about 0600-2000 hrs.
Black dot: all trains stop here.
No dot: train doesn't stop.

You can see Schiphol airport has pretty good connections.


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## SwedeC (Jan 3, 2023)

An on-call shuttle bus to the terminal from the depot (&vv) would suffice at SD.


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## jis (Jan 3, 2023)

San Diego already has pretty adequate Bus connection to both San Diego Santa Fe Station and the Old Town Station, the latter is free:






Airport


If you're in San Diego for a visit or on your way out of town, MTS can get you to and from the San Diego International Airport.




www.sdmts.com


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