# Zephyr or SW Chief?



## reefgeek (Feb 18, 2011)

I am going to do something I wanted to do for a long time, and take the train from NY Penn to San Francisco to see my brother. I recently discovered this marvelous board and I've been lurking here a little. I'm going by myself and I plan to book a roomette. I'm flying back.

Now that it's getting time to book, I see I can either take the CZ from Chicago straight to Emeryville or whatever, or I can take the Southwest Chief, then spend a day on the Coast Starlight going from LA to SF. The cost seems about the same. Is there anything to recommend one train over the other (besides that nice run up the coast)?


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## zephyr17 (Feb 18, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> I am going to do something I wanted to do for a long time, and take the train from NY Penn to San Francisco to see my brother. I recently discovered this marvelous board and I've been lurking here a little. I'm going by myself and I plan to book a roomette. I'm flying back.
> 
> Now that it's getting time to book, I see I can either take the CZ from Chicago straight to Emeryville or whatever, or I can take the Southwest Chief, then spend a day on the Coast Starlight going from LA to SF. The cost seems about the same. Is there anything to recommend one train over the other (besides that nice run up the coast)?


Well, the question in the title CZ versus Sunset, hands down CZ. As to the CZ versus the Southwest Chief, although the Southwest Chief is a favorite of mine, if this is your first venture on a Western LD, I have to say go with the CZ. The second day westbound pretty much starts after Denver with the dramatic climb up the Front Range, then Moffett Tunnel, and then spends most of the rest of that day in the canyons of Colorado's Western Slope. You end the day running through Ruby Canyon on the CO-UT border and then run along the base of the Book Cliffs as the sun is going down. The third day you go over the Sierra Nevada on Donner Pass. The CZ is the top run for scenary on the whole system, IMO.


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## caravanman (Feb 18, 2011)

No question in my mind, the Zephyr has the most interesting scenery, I have taken it many times... its fantastic!

Ed


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## guest (Feb 18, 2011)

The Sunset will take a full 2 extra days from CHI-SFO; and the scenery across west Texas is dead boring, to say nothing of the 8 hour overnight layover in San Antonio.


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## the_traveler (Feb 18, 2011)

Personally, I myself am torn between the Zephyr (CZ) or Southwest Chief (SWC) - especially with a sleeper.

As mentioned. the scenery is much better on the CZ. However, if you take the SWC, it connects to the Coast Starlite (CS) in LAX. The run north on the CS takes you right along the southern California shoreline. Also if you have a sleeper on this portion, the CS carries the Pacific Parlour Car (PPC). Although it is a day trip, many passengers chose to get a sleeper. It includes access to the PPC (coach passengers can not use it) and also includes 2 meals!


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## reefgeek (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes, urrm, that's what I meant, California Zephyr versus Southwest Chief...not what's in the subject....Thanks for understanding what I meant...


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## amamba (Feb 18, 2011)

I am traveling from CHI - SEA this March for my first LD train trip, and I definitely considered the CZ but instead, opted to do the Southwest Chief. The reasons were:


I really wanted to take the Coast Starlight

There is a rumor that the PPCs will be going away after 2012 (CS only train)

The arrival time of the CZ in California was not good and left a long layover to the CS


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## LA Resident (Feb 18, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> I am going to do something I wanted to do for a long time, and take the train from NY Penn to San Francisco to see my brother. I recently discovered this marvelous board and I've been lurking here a little. I'm going by myself and I plan to book a roomette. I'm flying back.
> 
> Now that it's getting time to book, I see I can either take the CZ from Chicago straight to Emeryville or whatever, or I can take the Southwest Chief, then spend a day on the Coast Starlight going from LA to SF. The cost seems about the same. Is there anything to recommend one train over the other (besides that nice run up the coast)?


Boy, you've posed a really tough one! It's hard to say you will go wrong either way. The Zephyr is, train route vs train route, the most stunning route in the US, with both the Rockies, the eastern Utah canyons and the Sierra Nevada/Donner Pass all in one trip!

But the combination SW Chief and Coast Starlight is awfully, awfully close in terms of fantastic vistas. The Chief offers spectacular scenery of the US southwest on the second day, from narrow canyons to 360-degree views of northern New Mexico and Arizona. And the scenes outside the Coast Starlight north along the Pacific between LA and San Luis Obispo can take your breath away, rain or shine.

If you do decide on the Chief/Starlight combo, follow the advice of The Traveler and book a roomette. It's not that much more for the day and does give you the parlor car and good meals.

Best idea of all: the CZ westbound, the Starlight/Chief eastbound! (if you got enough time and dough, that is)


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## reefgeek (Feb 18, 2011)

LA Resident said:


> reefgeek said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to do something I wanted to do for a long time, and take the train from NY Penn to San Francisco to see my brother. I recently discovered this marvelous board and I've been lurking here a little. I'm going by myself and I plan to book a roomette. I'm flying back.
> ...


Maybe after I retire! Of course, by then it will all be high-speed rail, har har.

My wife and I took the Starlight a couple of years ago from San Luis Obisbo to Seattle. We ended up about 12 hours late, which was swell on the train, great scenery and all, but we were dropped in Seattle at 3AM, which is kind of late to check into your hotel. We ended up doing it anyway, $250 down the tubes. It was heavenly.


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## AlanB (Feb 18, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> Yes, urrm, that's what I meant, California Zephyr versus Southwest Chief...not what's in the subject....Thanks for understanding what I meant...


I fixed the title for you.


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## reefgeek (Feb 18, 2011)

AlanB said:


> reefgeek said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, urrm, that's what I meant, California Zephyr versus Southwest Chief...not what's in the subject....Thanks for understanding what I meant...
> ...


Thanks!


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## Bierboy (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm gonna fly in the face of most here and say that we prefer the SWC. We've done both the CZ (this past October) and the SWC (in June 2007), and we prefer the scenery in the southwest US. Maybe that's just our personal preference, but we really enjoyed the SWC.


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## A.J. (Feb 18, 2011)

they're both amazing, so either way you will have an extraordinary time. i am a big SWC fan, despite having only ridden it once!  the scenery on the second day is astonishing. it's like being on another planet and i mean that in the best possible way!  it was one train trip that i definitely wished was a longer ride; it really is beautiful. but the zephyr is beautiful too and in many ways the sierra nevadas are even more gorgeous than the rockies. the coast starlight is pretty dreamy...having a yummy, even elegant, lunch in the parlor car while the scenery flies by is a real treat.


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## Bierboy (Feb 18, 2011)

A.J. said:


> they're both amazing, so either way you will have an extraordinary time. i am a big SWC fan, despite having only ridden it once!   the scenery on the second day is astonishing. it's like being on another planet and i mean that in the best possible way!  it was one train trip that i definitely wished was a longer ride; it really is beautiful. but the zephyr is beautiful too and in many ways the sierra nevadas are even more gorgeous than the rockies. the coast starlight is pretty dreamy...having a yummy, even elegant, lunch in the parlor car while the scenery flies by is a real treat.


I agree, AJ, that the Sierra Nevadas are VERY compelling. We certainly enjoyed our CZ trip in October, but, as you aptly point out, the second travel day on the SWC is absolutely stunning.


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## A.J. (Feb 19, 2011)

maybe some photos will help?

my first zephyr trip:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aurorajayne/sets/72157623852600648/

my chief trip (this also includes a few photos from the adirondack and LSL):


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## reefgeek (Feb 19, 2011)

A.J. said:


> maybe some photos will help?
> 
> my first zephyr trip:
> 
> ...


Thank you, those were just beautiful! Now I don't have to go, just kidding. Your photos certainly make the Zephyr look like the more scenic trip. I'll probably do them both eventually.

In truth, I've been in love with the idea since I picked up this book called Classic American Streamliners by Mike Schaefer and Joe Welsh. What I really want to do is ride the Super Chief and the "real" California Zephyr of yore. In the 1940s. Wearing a business suit and a grey fedora. But I know that's not possible. And no, I don't go first class when I fly either.

I was pleased to see you're shooting some 35mm with your little Rollei, am I right? My first photography was done with my dad's big Rolleiflex TLR. It was almost hard to take a bad picture with that camera. RIP.


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## NETrainfan (Feb 19, 2011)

Have been on both several times- great scenery either way- we prefer the SWC, as we live near the mountains in Maine and like the contrast of the desert and mesas in the Southwest.


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## dlynbid (Feb 19, 2011)

A.J. said:


> maybe some photos will help?
> 
> my first zephyr trip:
> 
> ...



FABULOUS Photos!! These should definitely be in the trip reports forum. We are booked on the CZ to Reno in October, but we are considering an alternate return trip, maybe after a week in Reno, continue on to SF and take the CS down to LA and hop the SWC back home to IND via CHI.

OR If I win the Lottery:

Continue CZ to Emeryville, and hop a train to Vancouver, CAN and take the Canadian to Toronto, with a return via LSL to CHI.

UHMMMMM,...... Choices, Choices.


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## zephyr17 (Feb 19, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> A.J. said:
> 
> 
> > maybe some photos will help?
> ...


If you want to ride a train that is as close to the real CZ as possible today, try Via's Canadian. The Canadian's Budd equipment is similar to the CZ's. You get Budd short domes through the Rockies.


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## Bigval109 (Feb 19, 2011)

caravanman said:


> No question in my mind, the Zephyr has the most interesting scenery, I have taken it many times... its fantastic!
> 
> Ed


I've taken the CZ so many times I've lost count.  I'm guessing I have taken it 11 times but don't qoute me  .Always better in the sleepers and let's not forget the meals. :lol: OH i forgot I'm taking the SWC to lax and then CS to sea in May.  Just counting the days


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## Bigval109 (Feb 19, 2011)

amamba said:


> I am traveling from CHI - SEA this March for my first LD train trip, and I definitely considered the CZ but instead, opted to do the Southwest Chief. The reasons were:
> 
> 
> I really wanted to take the Coast Starlight
> ...


Me too. I'm a member of that club taking swc to connect to CS  but in May


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## the_traveler (Feb 19, 2011)

Bigval109 said:


> I've taken the CZ so many times I've lost count.  I'm guessing I have taken it 11 times but don't qoute me


I won't qoute you on it - but I reserve the option to *quote* you on it!


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## AAARGH! (Feb 19, 2011)

reefgeek said:


> Now that it's getting time to book, I see I can either take the CZ from Chicago straight to Emeryville or whatever, or I can take the Southwest Chief, then spend a day on the Coast Starlight going from LA to SF. The cost seems about the same. Is there anything to recommend one train over the other (besides that nice run up the coast)?


Having taken all of Amtrak's long distance routes, I consider the CZ to be the most scenic. So the answer between the CZ and SWC is obviously the CZ!


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## pebbleworm (Feb 20, 2011)

I've taken both trains from San Francisco, and the I'd take the Zephyr. Actual travel time is about the same from Iowa on both, but the Zephyr is a one seat ride. I've taken the Southwest Chief in winter for fear of delays, but scenery is better on the Zephyr. Also, changing trains in LA is a pain. The San Joaquin will get you to SF quicker but has a (painless) two hour bus leg. The Coast Starlight is nice, but slow and often delayed. You probably won't arrive before midnight. BUT a roomette from LA to SF is inexpensive and worth the cost.


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## PaulM (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm surprised no one recommended taking the CZ westbound rather than the other way around. Depending on the time of the year and delays, the segment between the Moffit Tunnel and Denver may be in the dark, although the descent of the Front Range into Denver is almost as spectacular in the dark.


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## reefgeek (Feb 25, 2011)

Woo Hoo! All booked, Lakeshore Limited to Chicago and California Zephyr to Emeryville! and then some sort of bus to the ferry building.Roomette all the way and a flight back a week later. In the words of the great Elmer Fudd, "West and Wewaxation at Wast!"


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## greg1956a (Jun 29, 2013)

I'm going in Sept across country.Don't know if I should take CZ or SWC westbound or eastbound.If

I take CZ WB I take SWC eastbound but it leaves at 6:15 pm any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Greg


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## June the Coach Rider (Jun 29, 2013)

Not knowing where home is, I would take the CZ westbound, CS up to PDX then the EB eastbound, It leaves earlier and there is only a few hours layover in Portland rather than an all day layover like in LAX.


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## Shanghai (Jun 29, 2013)

I say go on the Zephyr for the best scenery.


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## Bob Dylan (Jun 29, 2013)

June the Coach Rider said:


> Not knowing where home is, I would take the CZ westbound, CS up to PDX then the EB eastbound, It leaves earlier and there is only a few hours layover in Portland rather than an all day layover like in LAX.


June Nailed it! This is the Way to Go!


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## zephyr17 (Jun 29, 2013)

I'd have to recommend giving the SWC some consideration for the eastbound trip. While the scenery is not a consistently spectacular as the CZ, it is better overall than the EB IMHO (yes, Glacier is beautiful but you are out of there around 10am and the rest of the day is spent in eastern Montana, which can be considered West Dakota for scenic interest). SWC has red rock country around Gallup, Glorietta and Raton passes.

SWC is also likely to be rerouted in the fairly near future because BNSF no longer uses Raton Pass and won't maintain it after the current contract is up. So if you have any interest in that route, ride it now, it may not be around much longer. The potential new route, the Transcon via Amarillo, is not as scenic.

There is a lot to do in LA, even just on public transit. Right by the station you have Olvera St, you have Phillipe's to have breakfast or lunch at. You can take the Red Line to Hollywood and Highland if that interests you. If you have a hankering for an In 'N Out burger, there's one near Sunset and Highland you can walk to from Hollywood and Highland. You can go to Long Beach on the Blue Line, or you can just take a busman's holiday and ride some of the various Metrolink lines.

LAUS's baggage room will hold bags for $4(?) bag.

Not sure how you may be planning to get to LA from the Bay Area off the CZ. You have to overnight somewhere to get to LA. You can come down from the Bay Area via the San Joaquin/bus connection in the morning and make the SWC connection that evening.


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## rusty spike (Jun 30, 2013)

Personally I would take the SWC to LAX, the CS to EMY (or MTZ) and the CZ east. There is a good connection at LAUS and if you are getting a sleeper you have the TRAXX first-class lounge available for the CS. And of course 1st Class pax on the CS get to use the Pacific Parlour Car (if running) for great meals, less crowded than a SSL, and wine/cheese tasting. Bay area requires an overnight for connections from the CS to the CZ. I rode a substantial portion of this itinerary last summer and really enjoyed it. You will have unbelievable scenery from deserts of the Southwest, crashing surf along the Pacific Coast to the High Sierras and the Rocky Mountains. And, as has been mentioned on this forum and others, the SWC route over Raton and Glorietta passes in New Mexico is endangered. Enjoy your trip.


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## chakk (Jul 1, 2013)

zephyr17 said:


> I'd have to recommend giving the SWC some consideration for the eastbound trip. While the scenery is not a consistently spectacular as the CZ, it is better overall than the EB IMHO (yes, Glacier is beautiful but you are out of there around 10am and the rest of the day is spent in eastern Montana, which can be considered West Dakota for scenic interest). SWC has red rock country around Gallup, Glorietta and Raton passes.
> SWC is also likely to be rerouted in the fairly near future because BNSF no longer uses Raton Pass and won't maintain it after the current contract is up. So if you have any interest in that route, ride it now, it may not be around much longer. The potential new route, the Transcon via Amarillo, is not as scenic.
> 
> There is a lot to do in LA, even just on public transit. Right by the station you have Olvera St, you have Phillipe's to have breakfast or lunch at. You can take the Red Line to Hollywood and Highland if that interests you. If you have a hankering for an In 'N Out burger, there's one near Sunset and Highland you can walk to from Hollywood and Highland. You can go to Long Beach on the Blue Line, or you can just take a busman's holiday and ride some of the various Metrolink lines.
> ...


I have found it convenient to take the CS south to Santa Barbara and overnight there. Then take a mid-morning train from Santa Barbara to LA to connect to that evening's SWC.

Most times of the year, that will put the Pacific Ocean view from the CS still in daylight. But, if I was taking this run in the dead of winter, then I might leave the CS at San Luis Obispo for the evening and take a morning train from SLO to LA for the connection to the SWC, This assures that I get the Pacific Ocean View in daylight.


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## June the Coach Rider (Jul 1, 2013)

chakk said:


> zephyr17 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd have to recommend giving the SWC some consideration for the eastbound trip. While the scenery is not a consistently spectacular as the CZ, it is better overall than the EB IMHO (yes, Glacier is beautiful but you are out of there around 10am and the rest of the day is spent in eastern Montana, which can be considered West Dakota for scenic interest). SWC has red rock country around Gallup, Glorietta and Raton passes.
> ...


I did the CS in February on my way to SAN, I saw plenty of the ocean in the daylight and even got to see the sun set from the cliff run.


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## reefgeek (Jul 1, 2013)

I would just like to chime in as the originator of this thread and say that I had a great trip on the CZ (in 2011) but it broke down in Nevada and were bussed to SF after big delays! Since then I have ridden the SWC Eastbound, the Card, and the Empire Builder and the CS and Silver Service several times! I have loved it all. This Fall's trip is the Capitol Ltd. to the Texas Eagle to LAX and another spin on the CS! Woooooooo! Still need to get that last bit of the CZ.


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## boxcarsyix (Jul 1, 2013)

Took the CZ last spring and in spring 1966 (and yes, I did wear a suit). Love that train! I am taking the CZ to Galesburg next spring just to catch the SWC from there. Took the CS this May DAV to SEA. Both the CZ and CS are great trains. I have never taken the SWC so I am looking forward to it. I don't think there is a bad way to go West! Enjoy the trip and don't blink or you may miss something spectacular.


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