# Which high-speed rail services did you already use (besides Acela Expr



## beautifulplanet (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello everyone,

it would be interesting to hear from past users of high-speed rail (high-speed rail except for Acela Express), which high-speed rail services exactly did you already use?

Specificially, what was the impression of the service? How was the experience like?


----------



## Bob Dylan (Feb 24, 2014)

I've ridden the HSR Trains in Japan which were Outstanding (as is their Entire Rail System!) and the Blue Train (is that the Correct Name?) in France, which was also First Rate, Except for the Attitude of some of the Employees towards Tourists! (Ive had many a Ride on the Old Metro Liners and Acela Express on the NEC also! Good for the US but the Regionals are Almost as Fast and usually much Cheaper! We can do Better!  )


----------



## beautifulplanet (Feb 25, 2014)

Thank you for your post.



jimhudson said:


> I've ridden the HSR Trains in Japan which were Outstanding (as is their Entire Rail System!)


That is great that you had a great experience in Japan. After all, the Japanese invented modern high-speed rail. 



jimhudson said:


> Blue Train (is that the Correct Name?) in France, which was also First Rate


In France, you travelled on the Train Bleu night train?

Or was it high-speed rail, maybe with partially blue livery, like the TGV?



jimhudson said:


> Except for the Attitude of some of the Employees towards Tourists!


This might actually be the case with some of the French people (of course by far not every French person). My wife first thought they might be unfriendly because of interacting with an American, because of the whole thing back then with the "Freedom Fries" etc., and some French possibly not liking the Americans so much in the same way that some Americans possibly did not like the French. Tried to assure my wife of the fact that all of that is long forgotten, and that some French are just grouchy towards any tourist, completely independent of their nationality.  And of course in France, it always does help a lot to be able to speak French, even if it is just a tiny little bit... 



jimhudson said:


> (Ive had many a Ride on the Old Metro Liners and Acela Express on the NEC also! Good for the US but the Regionals are Almost as Fast and usually much Cheaper! We can do Better!  )


Yes, the Acela Express offers a good service, lots of people seem to like it. The one thing that some might wish for though is, that with future Acela trainsets, that they might have an even more attractive exterior/interior design, as seen here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/58590-high-speed-rail-a-more-attractive-exteriorinterior-design/&do=findComment&comment=503534

It's true though, currently, the Northeast Regional services are not much slower but much cheaper to ride.

About the Northeast Corridor possibly doing better in the future, there is also a conversation about that in the following thread:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/58784-which-rail-advocacy-organizations-promote-high-speed-rail-northeast


----------



## George Harris (Mar 16, 2014)

Shinkansen in Japan and the Taiwan High Speed.

Hint: If you go to Japan as a tourist, get a rail pass. A tremendous value. Good for virtually everything except sleepers and one class of Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka.

In Japan everything on rails runs with great precision. Generally you can literally set your watch by them. We spent 6 days as tourists with a Railway timetable and the Lonely Planet book on Japan. Great time.

The ride quality is superb. You don't really feel that you are going fast.

Taiwan: What can I say. I spent 9 years working on the project so I feel very personal about it. Shinkansen equipment. Rides good, reliable. Four trains per hour between the major cities on the west side of the island.


----------



## beautifulplanet (Apr 3, 2014)

Thank you for your reply.



George Harris said:


> Shinkansen in Japan and the Taiwan High Speed.
> 
> Hint: If you go to Japan as a tourist, get a rail pass. A tremendous value. Good for virtually everything except sleepers and one class of Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka.
> 
> ...


This might be so interesting to hear for many, that the Japan Rail Pass is a good idea when traveling through the country.

Also it might seem great to hear that high-speed rail in Japan seems to be very punctual, and that the ride quality is very good.

Maybe in case Texas Central Railway (with plans to use Japanese equipment) is successful to find the needed capital, this exact Japanese punctuality and comfort can be found in the US in the future as well. 



George Harris said:


> Taiwan: What can I say. I spent 9 years working on the project so I feel very personal about it. Shinkansen equipment. Rides good, reliable. Four trains per hour between the major cities on the west side of the island.


In might seem to many like high-speed rail in Taiwan is another success story, especially when the rides are good and reliable, and the high frequency of four trains an hour provides riders with a lot of choice and convenience to find services that match their travel needs.

In case it's ok to ask, what was it like working on the Taiwan High Speed Rail project?


----------



## George Harris (Apr 3, 2014)

beautifulplanet said:


> In case it's ok to ask, what was it like working on the Taiwan High Speed Rail project?


It is somewhat hard to say briefly, and professionally there are some things like the Las Vegas ad, "What happens here stays here."

I think it is true for almost everyone that is involved in building things from the designers, owners, and project managers to the laborers there is nothing in this life, possibly except seeing your children becoming good functional adults, equivalent to the satisfaction from seeing somthing you had part of finished successfully and being used, and best of all being able to use it yourself.

It was a great project in many ways because once the govenment was committed it was going to happen. Maybe sometime later I will try to say more. We loved living in Taiwan as well. I had spent 5 years on the Taipei Rapid Transit, and used it for part of my commute to the office while working on the HSR.


----------



## PerRock (Apr 3, 2014)

I've been on the Shinkansen over in Japan. It was years ago & I was quite young. While on the trip I got to tour one of their repair facilities & the crew of the train even let me up into the cab while at speed! I got some photos kicking around somewhere on the internet I'll see if I can dig them up when I get home.

More recently I've traveled on most of the European HSR systems. In England I've been on both the IC125 and the IC225. Both were nice trains, but didn't seem that 'special'. I've taken the Eurostar twice between London & Paris (Nord), truethfully it was a bit of a let down. The Class 373 trains were built in the mid 90s with late 80s/early 90s technology & design, and truethfully they feel that way. Not to say it wasn't bad, just not what I was expecting. I took the TGV from Paris (Lyon) to Lucern, those 'TGV Lyria' trainsets were quite nice, the trip was smooth; although not first-class. In switzerland I took an SBB/CFF-run ICE2 train from Lucern to Interlake, while the line it's self wasn't high speed the train was. In general the ICE trains are really nice. I took the ICE3 from Hamburg to Berlin twice & that's where I really felt like I was on a high speed train, even though I was traveling 2nd class the seats were nice, the car felt upper-class (tinted glass pannels, wood, some brushed stainless, etc); they ever served a complimentary beverage (water or juice), Pastery, and box of chocolates to 2nd class passengers. Really a 1st rate trip. The final HSR trip I took was the OeBB RailJet, the RailJet was another very nice train; one I could even see being used here in the states; the interior was comfortable & felt higher-class (again I was in 2nd class). Monitors along the cars told you where you were & how fast you were going.

If you travel to Europe I would highly recomend a RailPass, they're quite affordable and a basic one will allow you to ride (for free) on almost any of the high speed trains over there. A few notes on it; TGVs are included however you still need to reserve tickets at the station or online & England isn't included (there is a seperate UK railpass) so you get a discount on the EuroStar is.

Peter


----------



## NW cannonball (Apr 4, 2014)

George Harris said:


> Shinkansen in Japan and the Taiwan High Speed.
> 
> Hint: If you go to Japan as a tourist, get a rail pass. A tremendous value. Good for virtually everything except sleepers and one class of Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka.
> 
> ...


What George said. 100% right on. Get the Japan rail pass - works on any JR train (nozomi excepted), even the Yamanote. Super good deal.

The Shinkansen doesn't *feel* fast. The only time you feel like you are going fast is when the 16-car train on the other track zips by at combined speed over 300 mph. ZZuzzuzzu-zip.

It doesn't *feel* fast, because it's built right. You get where you are going real quick, no worries, on time.

Oh how I wish there was something like it here.


----------



## beautifulplanet (Apr 4, 2014)

Thank you for your reply.



George Harris said:


> It is somewhat hard to say briefly, and professionally there are some things like the Las Vegas ad, "What happens here stays here."
> 
> I think it is true for almost everyone that is involved in building things from the designers, owners, and project managers to the laborers there is nothing in this life, possibly except seeing your children becoming good functional adults, equivalent to the satisfaction from seeing somthing you had part of finished successfully and being used, and best of all being able to use it yourself.
> 
> It was a great project in many ways because once the govenment was committed it was going to happen. Maybe sometime later I will try to say more. We loved living in Taiwan as well. I had spent 5 years on the Taipei Rapid Transit, and used it for part of my commute to the office while working on the HSR.


That sounds great. That might seem to some to be quite an adventure, to be able to work for such a long time within such a huge project. And then especially abroad, in a different country, in a different culture. Still, the Taiwanese citizens I spoke to (some of them I spoke to while traveling on the rails  ), they always just had good things to say about their experiences with high-speed rail in their country. They also described different aspects of Taiwanese culture and daily life, which to does seem to have a lot of aspects that are substantially different from the usual western culture many might only be used to. Obviously the conflict with the People's Republic of China seems to be something important to lots of Taiwanese as well.

It might be understandable to many, how it must be rewarding to work on such a project that is of such a benefit for so many people now, basically for a whole country and its economy, as it is stated that approx. 44 million passengers rode Taiwan high-speed rail in 2012. So a lot of people now are able to enjoy the benefits of the project, as will most likely generations to come.

While not wanting to have any industry secrets being publicly exposed on a rail forum  - can you describe in what function you were able to be a part of the Taiwain high-speed rail project? Or what things - apart from the government's commitment to the project - was most important for it to become the success that it is today?


----------



## xyzzy (Apr 4, 2014)

If the definition of HSR is 250 km/h or faster: Germany, France, Japan, and the UK (Eurostar). A great way to get from A to B; becomes routine after a while.


----------



## beautifulplanet (Apr 4, 2014)

Thank you for your post.



xyzzy said:


> If the definition of HSR is 250 km/h or faster[...]


As there are so many definitions of high-speed rail service, feel free to list any you think should be mentioned as high-speed rail, no matter any certain km/h number.



xyzzy said:


> If the definition of HSR is 250 km/h or faster: Germany, France, Japan, and the UK (Eurostar). A great way to get from A to B; becomes routine after a while.


To many it might be good to hear that high-speed rail is a great way to get from A to B.
And especially for many Americans it might be interesting to hear that it becomes routine after a while, as many will not have had the chance to experience it yet and the concept of high-speed rail might seem foreign or one might not be aware of the convenience and comfort, so it might be a new thought to many that this "great way" to travel will just become a routine after a while (no matter if in California, in Texas, with NexGen in the Northeast or in other places).

So when it came or still comes to those high-speed rail services mentioned in Germany, France, Japan and the UK (Eurostar), how was or is the experience like, besides simply a great way to travel?  
Maybe it's possible to share a little bit more about f.e. the reliability, punctuality, passenger comfort, the amenities offered, the convenience, the design or appearance or the booking process etc.
(Would be great in case it's possible to hear more about it even when it's so much of a "routine"...  )


----------



## xyzzy (Apr 4, 2014)

I wouldn't say that the high-speed trains are any more or less reliable, punctual, comfortable, etc than the slower trains that they replaced or that in some cases still operate on different routes in the same countries. And to my eyes the high-speed trains themselves haven't changed much over the years, either; today's TGV isn't much different from the one I rode 31 years ago. Ticketing for high-speed trains works about the same way as it does for other trains, although the ticketing process for most trains now (regardless of speed) is partly electronic instead of wholly paper-based. Perhaps one could say that high-end restaurant cars are less common these days simply because the trips take less time than they used to. But in-flight meal service from airlines is also far less than it once was.


----------



## beautifulplanet (Apr 4, 2014)

Dear Peter, thank you very much for your post.



PerRock said:


> I've been on the Shinkansen over in Japan. It was years ago & I was quite young. While on the trip I got to tour one of their repair facilities & the crew of the train even let me up into the cab while at speed! I got some photos kicking around somewhere on the internet I'll see if I can dig them up when I get home.


It might seem to many that only few people (outside of Japan) have the luck to go riding with the Shinkansen - but then even to be allowed into the cap while at speed, that might seem to many like it must have been like quite a blast!  Definitely an experience not to forget (as it's still being remembered now many years later... 



PerRock said:


> More recently I've traveled on most of the European HSR systems. In England I've been on both the IC125 and the IC225. Both were nice trains, but didn't seem that 'special'. I've taken the Eurostar twice between London & Paris (Nord), truethfully it was a bit of a let down. The Class 373 trains were built in the mid 90s with late 80s/early 90s technology & design, and truethfully they feel that way. Not to say it wasn't bad, just not what I was expecting. I took the TGV from Paris (Lyon) to Lucern, those 'TGV Lyria' trainsets were quite nice, the trip was smooth; although not first-class. In switzerland I took an SBB/CFF-run ICE2 train from Lucern to Interlake, while the line it's self wasn't high speed the train was. In general the ICE trains are really nice. I took the ICE3 from Hamburg to Berlin twice & that's where I really felt like I was on a high speed train, even though I was traveling 2nd class the seats were nice, the car felt upper-class (tinted glass pannels, wood, some brushed stainless, etc); they ever served a complimentary beverage (water or juice), Pastery, and box of chocolates to 2nd class passengers. Really a 1st rate trip. The final HSR trip I took was the OeBB RailJet, the RailJet was another very nice train; one I could even see being used here in the states; the interior was comfortable & felt higher-class (again I was in 2nd class). Monitors along the cars told you where you were & how fast you were going.


Wow. This seems great, having been able to travel with so many European high-speed rail services already! 

Thank you for the detailed information about your impression of all these European high-speed rail services and their design, passenger comfort etc.

It's interesting to read, the statement that the OeBB RailJet is seen as a nice train that also could be used in the States - as my wife is American also and she loved the RailJet, took pictures and shared on Facebook with her hundreds of friends how nice she thought the train was!  So from a passengers' perspective, it seems like Americans like the RailJet design.  What exactly was it about the RailJet, that caused you to think that you could see it used in the States? My wife probably wouldn't mind either, then f.e. the trip to Niagara Falls would probably only have taken less than 3h - given that the track would have been electrified and ready for RailJet's top speed of 143mi - instead of the 6 and a half it did, and she liked the current Amtrak ride as well and also happily posted pics on Facebook.  Still she would probably prefer the use of RailJet in the States (operated at the original RailJet speed/design and service pattern by Amtrak)...

What corridors could you see the RailJet or other high-speed rail services you experienced being used in (assuming politically and financially there would be enough backing for it)?



PerRock said:


> If you travel to Europe I would highly recomend a RailPass, they're quite affordable and a basic one will allow you to ride (for free) on almost any of the high speed trains over there. A few notes on it; TGVs are included however you still need to reserve tickets at the station or online & England isn't included (there is a seperate UK railpass) so you get a discount on the EuroStar is.


Many will agree with what that statement about the rail passes for Europe (and yes, the separate BritPass might make it seem to some, that those on the island still have reservations towards continental Europe to this present day when not wanting to join the common rail pass system  ).

The EuRail pass (travelers with residence outside of Europe) or the InterRail Pass (for travelers with residence inside of Europe) are quite affordable and offer a great way to see Europe.

Especially when having to pay no supplement and having to make no reservation it's great, f.e. in countries like Germany (all DB trains except for ICE Sprinter), Austria (even both RailJet and WestBahn included), Switzerland (except for dedicated "tourist trains") and Denmark (all trains): just hop on any train and go! It's incredibly easy, and convenient, besides being quite affordable.

For other countries and certain routes, when the traveler is okay with being bound to some certain train and actually willing to deal with individual and even multiple separate bookings, one can actually save something though. When traveling from London to Paris on Eurostar, using Thalys high-speed rail, or going from Paris to Milan with the TGV for example. The "reservation fee" for the Eurostar is 89 Euro, advance-purchase one-way tickets start at 48,50 Euro though. And one doesn't even need to use up one day of the pass. Taking Thalys from Amsterdam to Paris, is a 39 Euro "reservation fee" for pass holders, while there are advance-purchase fares of 35 Euro available. Even in first class, the "reservation fee" is 62 Euro for pass holders (and that is available for people in possession of a first class rail pass only), while currently an advance-purchase fare is 79 Euro for first class (sometimes there are advance-purchase fares for 59 Euro) - and many might find first class to be exceptionally comfortable, with wifi and a snack included and even in addition, at breakfast, lunch or dinner time a meal included as well. And TGV Paris to Milan also is a 60 Euro "reservation fee" for pass holders, while there are advance-purchase fares starting at 47 Euro. There would be even more examples for this...

Passes definitely can be recommended, especially as they offer so much flexibility, it's no problem to change travel plans until making the reservation for the set "fee" price. At the same time, when able to plan ahead and live with set dates and times, and willing to put up with direct reservations, one is able to travel in an even more affordable way using the regular offers of different European high-speed rail services.


----------



## PerRock (Apr 4, 2014)

I think the biggest advantage I saw to the RailJet being used here in the states was that it essentially was a locomotive-hauled trainset. All the cars bar the ES-64U4 (or is it a U2, can't remember) are married together, like most HSR consists. However with it just having a regular engine it could really expand the possibilities it can run (stick a Diesel on their for the non-electrified corridors) and still provide a consistent set of services & look.

If I were running the RailJet here in the US; you would probably find them on most Corridor trains, such as the short lines out of Chicago (Wolveriene, Hiawatha, etc) as well as along the NEC (maybe only as the Regional)

For fun I do a lot reskining & route building in the computer simulator Trainz Railroad Simulator, so a while back I took the RailJet consist that is available for the game (payware) and made an Amtrak Version; here are some pictures of that:



 

 

 



And I dug out my pictures from Japan, like I said I was really quite young (the male kid) I have pictures of me in the cab at speed, but not digital (heck their negatives):

http://s68.photobucket.com/user/PerRock/library/shinkansen

peter

PS on Railpasses: If you can afford it get the "continuous" passes, they are well worth the extra money. You don't know how many people I ran into while in Europe who couldn't do things they wanted because it would cost them a day on their Railpass & they needed all their days. There are a bunch of other services that are covered by the Eurail Rail Passes, But they all will 'cost' you a day's travel if you'r not on the continuous passes.


----------



## tp49 (Apr 4, 2014)

Taiwan HSR is great it's the only time I've ever been on a train with an apology announcement for being a minute late into a station. Also met the then candidate and now President Ma Ying Jeou while getting off the train in Taichung. Also rode the China HSR from Shanghai to Hangzhou and Shanghai to Beijing. Will pick up the Eurostar next month.


----------



## George Harris (Apr 7, 2014)

I think there is a certain amount of understated bragging in the Taiwan HSR. Look at train announcement board and and seeing a train that covers over 200 miles in two hours flat described as a "LOCAL" being a good example. Everyone involved in the system is very proud of how it turned out.

The things that have made the Taiwan HSR successful: First and foremost there is this huge level of pride in doing things well every day all the time. Then it was built right. The track, equipment, signalling, electrification, are all Shinkansen standards or derivations there from done by people that understood the Shinkansen standards thorougtly. That means done by people that knew how a railroad with high train frequency and passenger volume should operate and had been doing so since the 1960's. The trainsets are a derivation of the 700 series Shinkansen coaches. They are single level cars with 3 and 2 seating standard and 2 and 2 for the extra fare seats. All station platforms are car floor level, with a platform gap very close to American ADA standards. Therefore they unload and reload quickly and painlessly. There is no speed restriction below 300 km/h between leaving the portion adjacent to the Taiwan Railway in Taipei and their approach to being parallel to the Taiwan Railway just north of Kaohsiung. Further, the alignment is designed so as to ultimately permit 350 km/h, which means that you are not pushing the envelope the lne will tolerate.

I thik the performance of the Taiwan train during their earthquake derailment as well as that of the Shinkansen train in an earthquake are poster children of what should happen in these cases. First, anyone who thinks that you can keep a train from derailing in all likely earthquakes is hallucinating. The question is what happens when it does? With the standard Japanese concrete slab based track in both cases, when the train was bounced off the rails it came down on the concrete and bounced, rolled, and slid along the track with the rails caught up among the under car equipment preventing the train from going too far off to the sides. Everyone on the train in both cases literally walked away from it. There were a few bunps and bruises, but no more.

The issues that led to some rail breaks in Japan have been analyzed and fixes developed. These fixes are plugged into the track standards for the Calif HSR.

Beuatiful planet: I have sent you a PM.


----------

