# Cruising (Ocean and River)



## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

It was suggested in a Travelogue thread, that we take cruising or ship voyage discussion to 'Non-Rail Transportation', so.....here it is...please feel free to discuss all types of water transportation here, relate experiences, ask question's, answer them, whatever.....while there is a very large website devoted to that subject, as always, I like to get the opinion's of the well informed member's of this forum right here on the subject....

I'll start off by saying I am an avid cruiser.   I started later than many...took my first cruise on the original "Love Boat", the former Pacific Princess (built as the "Sea Venture" in 1971 for Flagship Cruises), back in 1991 on a land and sea vacation from Whittier, AK to Vancouver, BC.   And I was hooked.

I did not take my next one until 10 years later, on the Holland America Ryndam in 2001 from Fort Lauderdale to San Diego, but then started taking one every year, and then two or three, until I now have 34 behind me, and three more booked.   Now that I am retired, I plan on taking a lot more...


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## Maglev (Nov 21, 2018)

I have been on one cruise.  My first wife and I sailed from Long Beach to Catalina to Ensenada and back, four nights, in February, 2002.  The ship was Carnival's _Ecstasy, _which was christened in 1991 and is 855 feet long, carrying up to 2,634 passengers and 920 crew.  We were in a "veranda" cabin, so we had a balcony and also were in an isolated section with just about a dozen rooms.  I think I would not like being on a giant ship in a room on a hallway with hundreds of other rooms.

I ate lunch a couple times docked in Kahului Harbor on the old cruise ships which sailed interisland in Hawaii, the _Independence _and _Constitution.  _These were originally Atlantic ocean liners, and were used in Hawaii because of the Jones Act (vessels not transiting a foreign port must be US-built).  There's a huge amount of politics there-including a boondoggle of something like a government subsidy to build a ship for Hawaiian cruising that ended up being an ill-suited military vessel.  I think the vessel that sails interisland now is foreign-built.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2018)

We are lucky that we have so many to choose from, pretty much year round. From where you (and I) live we can get to them pretty easily, that makes it easy to get good deals.


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2018)

Pride of America (NCL)  was partially built at Litton/Ingalls in Mississippi and towed to Germany for completion after it was bought out of the US Lines/American Classic Voyages bankruptcy.


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## TinCan782 (Nov 21, 2018)

Maglev said:


> I have been on one cruise.  My first wife and I sailed from Long Beach to Catalina to Ensenada and back, four nights, in February, 2002.  The ship was Carnival's _Ecstasy, _which was christened in 1991 and is 855 feet long, carrying up to 2,634 passengers and 920 crew.  We were in a "veranda" cabin, so we had a balcony and also were in an isolated section with just about a dozen rooms.  I think I would not like being on a giant ship in a room on a hallway with hundreds of other rooms.
> 
> I ate lunch a couple times docked in Kahului Harbor on the old cruise ships which sailed interisland in Hawaii, the _Independence _and _Constitution.  _These were originally Atlantic ocean liners, and were used in Hawaii because of the Jones Act (vessels not transiting a foreign port must be US-built).  There's a huge amount of politics there-including a boondoggle of something like a government subsidy to build a ship for Hawaiian cruising that ended up being an ill-suited military vessel.  I think the vessel that sails interisland now is foreign-built.


We too did that same cruise on the Ecstasy in 2004 and enjoyed the "veranda" accommodations. That was our first cruise. I also prefer smaller ships like the destroyer I served in while in the Navy...crew of 300 rather than 5000 or more on a carrier. We are now gravitating to river cruises with 200 passengers. Our next one will be the American Duchess cruising the entire length of the Mississippi River from Minneapolis to New Orleans. Trains, of course, will get us there and back home!

Here's part of my "signature" from CruiseCritics ... 


*American Empress *- Oct 9 -16, 2016: Clarkston to Vancouver . https://www.flickr.com/photos/frensicpic/collections/72157675314886241/

*NCL Pearl* July 13-20, 2014: Seattle, Juneau, Skagway, Glacier Bay, Ketchikan, Victoria BC. https://www.flickr.com/photos/frensicpic/collections/72157646196775896/

*Carnival Spirit *Jan 2009: San Diego, Acapulco, Manzanillo, Zihuatanejo. 

*Carnival Pride *Jan 2006: Long Beach, Puerta Vallarta, Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas. 

*Carnival Ecstasy *Jan 2004: Long Beach, Avalon, Ensenada.

*USS Rowan (DD-782), RM2 *Jan 1969 - Jan 1972 Homeports: San Diego and Yokosuka. *Shellback* - November, 1970 at 000° 00', 105° 14'E


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

The Jones Act, actually refers to freight transportation, passenger ships are covered by the Passenger Vessel Services Act...

Here is a link to the source, with further links to explain the complicated limitations on foreign flagged ships trading from US Ports....

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

Maglev said:


> I ate lunch a couple times docked in Kahului Harbor on the old cruise ships which sailed interisland in Hawaii, the _Independence _and _Constitution.  _These were originally Atlantic ocean liners


Those were a beautiful pair of ship's, that I regret never having sailed on.   Much of their design was done by noted industrial designer, Henry Dreyfuss, of NYC Twentieth Century Limited fame...


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## Maglev (Nov 21, 2018)

railiner said:


> Those were a beautiful pair of ship's, that I regret never having sailed on.   Much of their design was done by noted industrial designer, Henry Dreyfuss, of NYC Twentieth Century Limited fame...


My step-daughter (a United Airlines flight attendant) took my wife on an interisland cruise on the _Constitution.  _The cabin they reserved was NOT up to her standards at all, and she managed to upgrade them to something that at least had one port hole.

Railiner, I've confused the Jones Act and misrepresented the story of the vessel that now sails interisland--tell me the famous movie filmed on either the _Constitution _or _Independence?_

Edit: found it_, An Affair to Remember _with Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr:

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/251725/Affair-To-Remember-An-Movie-Clip-From-Him-From-Her-.html


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## Carolyn Jane (Nov 21, 2018)

I have taken many ocean cruises, starting back in 1972/73 and then a break until 1999.  We love the ambiance of a cruise ship, but we don't travel in luxury.  Just moving from one place to another and having our meals catered is luxury enough.  I also belong to that very large cruising website, and a couple of others as well, small ones.  One focuses on the Panama Canal.    CJ


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## blueman271 (Nov 21, 2018)

I’ve been on one cruise on the Costa Atlantica for senior class trip back in 2003. I was only 17 then and still had a blast even though I couldn’t partake in the more adult activities. While I’ve been to sea many many times since I have never taken another cruise.


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## pennyk (Nov 21, 2018)

I will be taking a full transit Panama Canal cruise on Princess next month.  I did a partial transit last year and liked it so much that I want to do the entire canal on the cruise ship.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 21, 2018)

I have sailed on 53 cruises with my first one being in 1970 aboard Rotterdam V. 

I sailed on the Independence when she was sailing under the American Hawaii Line banner.  She surely was a "classic" and provided a very good Hawaiian cruise experience.

I have 3 more booked for this Winter:  a New Year's Cruise aboard Royal Princess and a b2b on HAL's brand new Nieuw Statendam.  I will be sailing on her 5th revenue cruise.


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

We certainly do have some 'well-traveled' cruiser's here.... 

I enjoy any type of cruise from tiny expedition ship up to floating amusement park resorts...  I usually will look for last minute bargains, close to home, and take an inside guarantee stateroom, as I only use the cabin for sleeping, showering, and changing clothes.  From wake up until bedtime, I am out and about, all over the ship.  The exception's are for special destination cruises, that are on my "bucket list".  In August of 2017, I splurged and took the Crystal Serenity, 32 days from Seward, AK to New York via the fabled Northwest Passage.   I would never normally spring for a luxury line like Crystal, but for the itinerary, I just had to.  The food and service they provide does 'spoil' you... 

In January, I am really taking the plunge...my retirement gift to myself will be 180 days aboard the Oceania Insignia, (6 month's!), on a full westbound circumnavigation of the world, calling at six continents.   Cannot wait for that to begin....


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

pennyk said:


> I will be taking a full transit Panama Canal cruise on Princess next month.  I did a partial transit last year and liked it so much that I want to do the entire canal on the cruise ship.


Island Princess or Coral Princess?


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> I have sailed on 53 cruises with my first one being in 1970 aboard Rotterdam V.
> 
> I sailed on the Independence when she was sailing under the American Hawaii Line banner.  She surely was a "classic" and provided a very good Hawaiian cruise experience.
> 
> ...


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

blueman271 said:


> I’ve been on one cruise on the Costa Atlantica for senior class trip back in 2003. I was only 17 then and still had a blast even though I couldn’t partake in the more adult activities. While I’ve been to sea many many times since I have never taken another cruise.


Wow...my high school class only went on bus trips....


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## railiner (Nov 21, 2018)

Carolyn Jane said:


> I have taken many ocean cruises, starting back in 1972/73 and then a break until 1999.  We love the ambiance of a cruise ship, but we don't travel in luxury.  Just moving from one place to another and having our meals catered is luxury enough.  I also belong to that very large cruising website, and a couple of others as well, small ones.  One focuses on the Panama Canal.    CJ


I am pretty active on that site as well, and my favorite feature of it, is the "roll calls", where you meet your fellow shipmates in advance, and then meet them in person aboard the cruise...


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## PVD (Nov 21, 2018)

That could be useful...A few years ago I was on a cruise to St John, NB and I went to one of the shows at night, came in at the top of the theater, and walked down till I saw an empty seat on the aisle, sat down, and saw that I was seated next to neighbors from the other side of my apartment building...


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## mitako (Nov 21, 2018)

Maglev said:


> I have been on one cruise.  My first wife and I sailed from Long Beach to Catalina to Ensenada and back, four nights, in February, 2002.  The ship was Carnival's _Ecstasy, _which was christened in 1991 and is 855 feet long, carrying up to 2,634 passengers and 920 crew.  We were in a "veranda" cabin, so we had a balcony and also were in an isolated section with just about a dozen rooms.  I think I would not like being on a giant ship in a room on a hallway with hundreds of other rooms.


I did this same cruise on the same ship. I think it was in 1994. My one and only cruise.


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## gswager (Nov 21, 2018)

I've been on "mini" size cruise or live aboard scuba diving boats around Bahamas islands for a week twice.  One was sailboat and other one was double hulls boat.


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## mitako (Nov 21, 2018)

My dream vacation would be to take the train to New Orleans, do a river cruise all the way up the Mississippi, and then take the train back home. But those river cruises are sooooo expensive, I think that trip is going to have to remain in my dreams.


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## blueman271 (Nov 21, 2018)

railiner said:


> Wow...my high school class only went on bus trips....


It wasn’t as glamorous as it seemed. I’m originally from and went to high school in Dade County and an alumnus of my high school worked for the cruise line. So we didn’t have to pay for any transportation to the port (my mom dropped me off and picked me up) and we got a really good group rate. We were in cabins on the lowest passenger deck of the ship, our windows (or portholes for you nautical types) were just a few feet above the waterline and we were 4 to a room.


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## railiner (Nov 23, 2018)

When you can travel last minute, from a port within 'driving range', you can snag deals like these:

https://www.ncl.com/cruises/14-day-western-caribbean-from-new-york-ESCAPE14NYCPCVNPIOCJGECBPICMACZMNYC?cruiseTour=1&amp;autoPopulate=f&amp;cruiseHotel=1&amp;numberOfGuests=4294953449&amp;pageSize=10&amp;ships=4294959336&amp;cruise=1&amp;sortBy=Featured&amp;from=resultPage&amp;state=undefined&amp;sailmonths=4294953369&amp;currentPage=1&amp;cruiseHotelAir=1&amp;itineraryCode=ESCAPE14NYCPCVNPIOCJGECBPICMACZMNYC

Usually a solo traveler like me, has to pay double, but in this case, not.   So with the port taxes and government fees added, the total comes to $725.20.   If you happen to have a 'cruise-next' certificate purchased on a previous cruise at half price, It reduces the fare by another $250.  (You paid $125. for it).  Now its just costing you $600.20.   And if you own 100 shares of NCL, you get another $100 shipboard credit back.   For a 14 night cruise, it's almost cheaper than staying home, and includes room, food, transportation, entertainment...

If I didn't have several appointments coming up, I'd be on it....


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## PVD (Nov 23, 2018)

For people who have not been on a recent cruise, it is important to mention that almost all cruse ships today are purpose built as such, not the earlier generation of converted ocean liners.They are very much geared for you to have just as much fun while traveling as at the destination ports. It is a different concept than a ship built to carry you from point a to point b.  I know that some people are put off by the mega ships and their enormous numbers of passengers, but there are also a number of newer medium size ships that are being built.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 23, 2018)

railiner,

Oh, how I envy you (as well as others) who live close to a port so that you have an opportunity to take advantage of such deals!


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## TinCan782 (Nov 23, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> railiner,
> 
> Oh, how I envy you (as well as others) who live close to a port so that you have an opportunity to take advantage of such deals!


Take a train to the port (whenever possible)...that's what we do!


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## TinCan782 (Nov 23, 2018)

Cruising the Columbia River, you have UP on the south bank (as seen here) and BNSF on the north bank!


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## cpotisch (Nov 23, 2018)

FrensicPic said:


> Cruising the Columbia River, you have UP on the south bank (as seen here) and BNSF on the north bank!


Does the Empire Builder run on this trackage?


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## TinCan782 (Nov 23, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Does the Empire Builder run on this trackage?


The Empire Builder (27/28) runs on the BNSF on the north bank of the river - behind me.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 23, 2018)

FrensicPic said:


> Take a train to the port (whenever possible)...that's what we do!




A great idea, if only Amtrak served Dayton, Ohio and had a more Southwest Ohio guest-friendly schedule from/to Cincinnati.


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## TinCan782 (Nov 23, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> A great idea, if only Amtrak served Dayton, Ohio and had a more Southwest Ohio guest-friendly schedule from/to Cincinnati.


I understand. Living in the LA area the availability of train service is nice.

For the Snake/Columbia River cruise (the photo above) we took the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder LA to Spokane. The cruise ended in Vancouver, Washington not far from the Amtrak station there. Convenient for catching the southbound Coast Starlight.


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## railiner (Nov 23, 2018)

FrensicPic said:


> I understand. Living in the LA area the availability of train service is nice.
> 
> For the Snake/Columbia River cruise (the photo above) we took the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder LA to Spokane. The cruise ended in Vancouver, Washington not far from the Amtrak station there. Convenient for catching the southbound Coast Starlight.


Living in the LA area, gives you a fair choice of cruises, from San Pedro, Long Beach, and San Diego.   And San Francisco is also "within driving (or train) range".   

The problem for those who do have the flexibility to take advantage of last minute cruises, is the often steep last minute air fares to reach them.


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## Twin Star Rocket (Nov 24, 2018)

Other than overnight ferries with varying amenities, the only "cruise" I've taken was a trip on the Delta Lines passenger-freighter_ Santa Mariana_ in the  early 1980s.

It was a two-night trip from Tacoma to San Francisco.  Accommodations and meals were first rate!

I wish I could have traveled onward to Los Angeles---better yet to South America!


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## railiner (Nov 24, 2018)

Travelling by freighter, is a fascination for me, that so far I have not fulfilled.   From what I have read, it is getting harder and harder to find freighter's that will accommodate any passenger's, at least in this part of the world.  There are still some elsewhere, but even those are dwindling in number...


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 24, 2018)

railiner said:


> The problem for those who do have the flexibility to take advantage of last minute cruises, is the often steep last minute air fares to reach them.




Exactly!  What one might save on the cruise fare probably would be lost on the air fare.


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## cpotisch (Nov 24, 2018)

Sometimes airlines actually have really cheap fares super close in because they want to make sure they sell every seat. YMMV.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 24, 2018)

Twin Star Rocket said:


> I've taken was a trip on the Delta Lines passenger-freight_ Santa Mariana_




Ah, yes!  The _Santas_ of first Grace Lines and then Delta Lines!  I remember reading about them, seeing ads for them in travel related magazines, i.e. Holiday_ _ and even requested  brochures from both Grace Lines and Delta Lines.  Alas, they went out of business before I had the opportunity to sail on them.


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## Just-Thinking-51 (Nov 29, 2018)

railiner said:


> Travelling by freighter, is a fascination for me, that so far I have not fulfilled.   From what I have read, it is getting harder and harder to find freighter's that will accommodate any passenger's, at least in this part of the world.  There are still some elsewhere, but even those are dwindling in number...




Use a “travel agent” for freight service.

https://www.freightercruises.com/index.php


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## railiner (Nov 29, 2018)

Just-Thinking-51 said:


> Use a “travel agent” for freight service.
> 
> https://www.freightercruises.com/index.php


That's a neat link...I'll certainly have to explore it more...thanks for posting it!

Have you any experience traveling on freighter's?


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## ehbowen (Nov 29, 2018)

(Speaking for myself) Yes, but not as a paying passenger!


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## Devil's Advocate (Nov 30, 2018)

Never been on a cruise myself.  The closest port is only five or six hours away but it's a long boring drive with very little to see or do along the way.  I know people who love cruises but when I ask about the specifics it seems like there are a lot of arbitrary restrictions and numerous ways to inadvertently waste your money.  Sounds like each year the rules and packages change and you have to change with them.  When I was younger the main appeal of traveling was to visit distant cultures and locations with my own planning and preparation.  I still enjoy the outbound trip but those long haul flights and domestic connections back home have become a real nuisance to me.  Now that I'm getting older I'm wondering if something a little closer and less involved might be worth a look.


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## cpotisch (Nov 30, 2018)

I imagine a cruise on a freighter is not going to be remotely as luxurious or comfortable as that of an actual cruise ship, right?


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## railiner (Nov 30, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I imagine a cruise on a freighter is not going to be remotely as luxurious or comfortable as that of an actual cruise ship, right?


Absolutely...you pretty much have to provide your own 'entertainment', but for me, just observing a working freighter's operation, would be entertainment in itself.  Sometimes you will luck out and have interesting shipmates to converse with.

You sitll get a private room, and steward service, and the food can be excellent, but very limited in choice.


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## cpotisch (Nov 30, 2018)

railiner said:


> Absolutely...you pretty much have to provide your own 'entertainment', but for me, just observing a working freighter's operation, would be entertainment in itself.  Sometimes you will luck out and have interesting shipmates to converse with.
> 
> You sitll get a private room, and steward service, and the food can be excellent, but very limited in choice.


Is it cheaper than a standard cruise?


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 30, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> Is it cheaper than a standard cruise?


It used  to be a real bargain.  I am not sure now, however.

Another advantage of a trip on a freighter trip, as I understand it, is you get to know the crew well, are invited to participate in crew on board activities, i.e. parties. on deck BBQs, etc., and often there is an "open Bridge" policy where the passengers can visit the Bridge when they wish, expect when a Pilot is on-board.

A disadvantage to freighter travel now is that there are so many container ships.  There usually are fewer passengers aboard and they spend much less time in a port in comparison to freighter travel before containerization became so prevalent.


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## PVD (Nov 30, 2018)

There are actually a couple of companies that run combis, ships that are built to carry both a limited number of passengers and freight. Keep in mind that the ocean freight business has changed, the greatest percentage of non bulk (like oil or grain) cargo is moved on containerships, most of which are not geared for, nor have any interest, in carrying passengers. The opportunity to travel on a regular cargo ship still exists, but much less so than in the past. There are a number of good articles online describing both the experience, and the major differences versus conventional cruising. The obvious are destinations, trip duration, on board amenities, lack of a doctor on a ship carrying less than 12 passengers, limited entertainment and meal selection....


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## pennyk (Nov 30, 2018)

I am looking forward to my upcoming full transit Panama Canal cruise (from LA to Fort Lauderdale) on a passenger cruise ship.  I previously did a partial transit Panama Canal cruise and went through the Canal on an excursion on a "ferry."   There were plenty of container ships on the Canal.  I have no idea if any had passengers on board.


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## Dakota 400 (Nov 30, 2018)

pennyk said:


> I am looking forward to my upcoming full transit Panama Canal cruise (from LA to Fort Lauderdale) on a passenger cruise ship.  I previously did a partial transit Panama Canal cruise and went through the Canal on an excursion on a "ferry."   There were plenty of container ships on the Canal.  I have no idea if any had passengers on board.




Having sailed the entire transit of the Panama Canal more than once, you are wise to do this.  One really cannot understand the massive undertaking that occurred in the early 20th Century to build the Canal without the full transit.

_Between the Seas_ is a book that I strongly suggest you read before your cruise.  It supplies the historical perspective that, I think, will make your transit more meaningful.  Your ship will probably also have a commentator embarked just prior to starting the transit through the Canal.  Their commentary usually are worth one's attention.


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## pennyk (Nov 30, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> _Between the Seas_ is a book that I strongly suggest you read before your cruise.  It supplies the historical perspective that, I think, will make your transit more meaningful.  Your ship will probably also have a commentator embarked just prior to starting the transit through the Canal.  Their commentary usually are worth one's attention.


Thanks.  I checked out the audiobook from the library and have it uploaded to iTunes on my phone.  I plan to listen to it on the train on the way to LA (and on the ship if I have not finished it).


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## ehbowen (Nov 30, 2018)

Dakota 400 said:


> Having sailed the entire transit of the Panama Canal more than once, you are wise to do this.  One really cannot understand the massive undertaking that occurred in the early 20th Century to build the Canal without the full transit.
> 
> _Between the Seas_ is a book that I strongly suggest you read before your cruise.  It supplies the historical perspective that, I think, will make your transit more meaningful.  Your ship will probably also have a commentator embarked just prior to starting the transit through the Canal.  Their commentary usually are worth one's attention.


On my one and only transit through the Canal (USS Missouri 1986), my supervisor wanted me down in the engine room working and not up on deck (I wasn't on watch). Let's just say...I didn't get caught!


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## railiner (Nov 30, 2018)

Just a tip to anyone considering a Panama Canal transit...try to choose a ship that has a nice air-conditioned, forward observation lounge, and then get a good seat there early...

It gets awful hot being outside all those hours, otherwise.... 

I did it back in 2001 aboard the HAL Ryndam...it was a superb ship for that experience....


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## ehbowen (Dec 1, 2018)

railiner said:


> Just a tip to anyone considering a Panama Canal transit...try to choose a ship that has a nice air-conditioned, forward observation lounge, and then get a good seat there early...
> 
> It gets awful hot being outside all those hours, otherwise....
> 
> I did it back in 2001 aboard the HAL Ryndam...it was a superb ship for that experience....


Yeah, I recommend that you NOT make the transit on the 08 level of a battleship with a breeze from dead astern blowing the stack gas directly your way. Great view, but....


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## PVD (Dec 1, 2018)

Because the new locks allow passage of larger ships, the Bayonne Bridge (steel arch) had its roadway deck raised 60' and the channel was dredged deeper so the "New Panamax" ships can make Newark/Elizabeth. Cool project.


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## Maglev (Dec 1, 2018)

I am sure some of you have done the math with those $599 one-week  cruises to figure out that cruising is cheaper than living on land.  Well, here is a fellow who has been living on a cruise ship for 13 years:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/irenelevine/2018/12/01/captain-of-his-destiny-the-man-who-has-lived-on-a-cruise-ship-for-13-years/#939fa776d4a6


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## railiner (Dec 1, 2018)

That is a nice story, and he is not alone...I have sailed on several ship's where elderly people 'live' aboard, and his situation does indeed have some benefits, as opposed to living in an assisted living or nursing home.   But it does have drawbacks, as well. 

Unless you have a spouse, or life partner living with you, it can get pretty lonely.   You just get friendly with people, but soon, they are disembarking, and you have to tell your life story, again and again to new shipmates.   True, the crew does stay on board for months at a time, but your relationship with them is not truly as 'friends'...it is a different dynamic, as they are in effect your employees.

I might consider spending maybe up to a half of my year on various cruise ships, but I want to enjoy being on land the other half, as well.


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## PVD (Dec 1, 2018)

Also, most pricing is based on 2 in a cabin, and there are not that many opportunities for singles to avoid paying double. There are a few ships (notably Norwegian) that are adding "singles" rooms, and a few lines where the single supplement is not 100%, but not that many.....


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## Devil's Advocate (Dec 1, 2018)

railiner said:


> Unless you have a spouse, or life partner living with you, it can get pretty lonely.   You just get friendly with people, but soon, they are disembarking, and you have to tell your life story, again and again to new shipmates.   True, the crew does stay on board for months at a time, but your relationship with them is not truly as 'friends'...it is a different dynamic, as they are in effect your employees.


Good points all around, but even if you had a spouse come along you'd still be repeating the same story over and over again.


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## railiner (Dec 21, 2018)

cpotisch said:


> I didn’t know that cruise ships or ocean liners ever needed tugboats to get in and out of dock. Is that (or was that) common?






PVD said:


> In the era pre side thrusters and azipods most definitely.. now, in Manhattan they usually stand by, but in some places they still assist... immediately after berthing either a powered barge or a tug moved barge is brought alongside to start fueling. They leave the same day they arrive now, they don't waste time...


Even with all that advanced technology, docking at the Manhattan Cruise Terminal is especially challenging during certain tidal, current, or wind condition's.   Recall the recent accident the brand new Carnival Horizon had when docking and striking Pier 90, causing some structural damage to the pier, and cosmetic damage to the ship....

When condition's warrant it, the pilot will order tug assistance from one or more tugs.   

While the new ships are more maneuverable than the old liner's, the old liners were more stable, with deeper draft, and less air draft...


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## PVD (Dec 21, 2018)

Exactly, they are there and ready (standing by) if they are needed. People often forget that the lower Hudson, and the East River are actually tidal estuary and their currents change direction and speed with the tides.


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## AG1 (Dec 21, 2018)

duplicate


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## railiner (Dec 21, 2018)

What is especially challenging is making the sharp turn into the finger piers, in the changing wind condition's, and then when part of the ship is in the slack waters protected by the pier, and the rest of the ship is still out in the current...not as simple to dock as one may think...


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## Bob Dylan (Dec 21, 2018)

Bet our ex-Navy Officer Ryan can really relate to this! 

As a young Seaman I remember a New Ensign( call him Ensign Pulver) docking  our Ship hard against the  Landing @ the Foot of Broadway in San Diego.


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