# High Speed Rail Map



## CHamilton

New map: US High Speed Rail System. This map is inspired by ideas from various agencies and advocacy groups including Amtrak, The Transport Politic, Wikimedia Commons, Florida High Speed Rail, SkyscraperPage Forums, Southern High Speed Rail, Southeast High Speed Rail, Ohio Department of Transportation, California High Speed Rail Authority, Midwest High Speed Rail Association, US DOT Federal Railroad Administration, Texas High Speed Rail and Transportation Corp

https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system

via Facebook


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## Gratt

Anyone know where we can get a spare Trillion to implement this :blink:


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## me_little_me

Is that a picture of Fantasyland at Disneyland?


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## mfastx

Pipe dream map, I hope to see a fraction of this before I die.


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## CHamilton

This map isn't as pretty, and it's a few years old now. But IMHO, this vision, featuring incremental building of faster-speed rail, together with filling the gaps in the current rail system, is the future we should be lobbying for. Unfortunately, PRIIA's focus on state support means that there's no incentive to be looking at a national system.


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## Trogdor

Did USrail21 get ahold of some neat drawing software?


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## Anderson

Only three things hit me about the network:
1) Flagstaff-Phoenix as a route. When did that lose service?

2) Ditto the NW CA line.

3) And in SoCal, if you're throwing around enough money and influence to connect Fort Myers to Miami, you might as well get out the checkbook and dynamite and put Anaheim-San Diego on the network.

As to PRIIA, my earnest hope is that something gets changed there. Honestly, something _might_ change on the federal front...but it's more likely to be some sort of crisis-induced slashing of highway funding matches that changes than anything particularly directly positive.


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## xyzzy

The maps are outputs of well-intentioned but wholly unrealistic people with too much time on their hands.


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## Anderson

At least in the case of the NARP map, I believe about 2/3 of those routes either have been seriously studied at some point in the last 10-15 years or _had_ service this side of 1990 (the old Broadway/3R line), and there are a handful where service either has been restored (Norfolk) or is on course to be restored (the FEC line and Roanoke). Parts of it aren't happening, but most of it isn't _that_ outlandish.


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## CHamilton

The creator of the High Speed Rail map explains his vision...in the [uK] Guardian.

A US high speed rail network shouldn't just be a dream


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## fairviewroad

Finally, somebody with the foresight to envision the day when we can board a high-speed train to Cheyenne.


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## Trogdor

It's as if mountains don't exist. Just tunnel right through the Rockies.


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## CHamilton

There is now a petition on whitehouse.gov based on the above HSR map. It's been getting enough attention that it's gotten 2,700+ signatures in two days.



> WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: Fund a high speed rail system that runs coast-to-coast and connects all metropolitan areas.
> 
> The 20th century had the Interstate Highway System, let the 21st see a national network of high speed rail!
> 
> Create a funding source (energy taxes? US Savings Bonds sold to citizens? Crowdfunding shares in a newly chartered corporation?) and a multi-decade plan.
> 
> Build 220-mph trunk lines with nonstop expresses between major cities and high speed regional service for other places in between. Link up to less populated areas with 110-mph service.
> 
> Proposed map at https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system
> 
> Created: Feb 05, 2013


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## CHamilton

Robert Cruickshank at the California High Speed Rail Blog on the genesis of the map.

Alfred Twu’s US High Speed Rail Map Goes Viral


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## Anderson

CHamilton said:


> There is now a petition on whitehouse.gov based on the above HSR map. It's been getting enough attention that it's gotten 2,700+ signatures in two days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: Fund a high speed rail system that runs coast-to-coast and connects all metropolitan areas.
> 
> The 20th century had the Interstate Highway System, let the 21st see a national network of high speed rail!
> 
> Create a funding source (energy taxes? US Savings Bonds sold to citizens? Crowdfunding shares in a newly chartered corporation?) and a multi-decade plan.
> 
> Build 220-mph trunk lines with nonstop expresses between major cities and high speed regional service for other places in between. Link up to less populated areas with 110-mph service.
> 
> Proposed map at https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system
> 
> Created: Feb 05, 2013
Click to expand...

Make that over 12,500 signatures. If I'm reading when you checked last right, it pulled down 10,000 signatures in the last day.


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## Devil's Advocate

*Signed*

Took less time signing the petition than it did to read all the self-defeating pessimism expressed in this thread.


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## Anderson

Ok, I'm going to keep a running tally:

Feb. 8:
0001 Eastern: 3977 signatures (#3977 is the first one with a date of Feb. 8)
1701 Eastern: 12938 signatures (checked 1705)
1706 Eastern: 13028 signatures
1711 Eastern: 13159 signatures
1731 Eastern: 13406 signatures
1745 Eastern: 13600
1805 Eastern: 13888
Feb 9:
0130 Eastern: 18609
0837 Eastern: 19803
1309 Eastern: 21093
1312 Eastern: 21167
1833 Eastern: 23563

2000 Eastern: 24214

Feb 10:
0440 Eastern: 25877

2155 Eastern: 28626

Feb 11:
0011 Eastern: 29021

2218 Eastern: 34441

Feb 12:
1450 Eastern: 35855

2007 Eastern: 36268

Edit: Adjusted the initial time since I think the site updates every 5 minutes.


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## Ryan

I was just #13,221.


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## CHamilton

The signature count is now up to 21,122. Seems to be picking up support at a very fast clip, or should I say "high speed"?


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## Anderson

Well, it seems to be on track for 23,000 or so by 5 PM, which would be about 10,000 in 24 hours. It also seems likely to be over 25,000 by midnight, which would be around 21,000 in 48 hours.


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## CHamilton

Anderson said:


> Well, it seems to be on track for 23,000 or so by 5 PM, which would be about 10,000 in 24 hours. It also seems likely to be over 25,000 by midnight, which would be around 21,000 in 48 hours.


So the question is, can it maintain the momentum? Having been involved in the petition to revive the Waterfront Streetcar in Seattle, I know that after the initial sprint, it takes work, press, and social media to keep the signatures coming in. I'm dubious about some of the specifics being proposed, but if nothing else, maybe we'll get a serious discussion about building the sort of rail network that this country needs and deserves.


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## Anderson

(I'd point out that a bunch of non-mandatory responses have come down on things on the site)

I'm also dubious about a good deal of the proposal...but I also agree that this is more of a case of "get a proposal on the table and then start talking".


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## CHamilton

Anderson said:


> It also seems likely to be over 25,000 by midnight, which would be around 21,000 in 48 hours.


Yes, it's over 25,499 now, and it's not midnight yet, at least anywhere west of Chicago


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## Texan Eagle

CHamilton said:


> Anderson said:
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems likely to be over 25,000 by midnight, which would be around 21,000 in 48 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's over 25,499 now, and it's not midnight yet, at least anywhere west of Chicago
Click to expand...

This means The White House now has to give an official response to this petition since it crossed the 25,000 threshold. The reply would most probably usual bureaucratic cryptic word play about how there is no money to implement this project, but do not underestimate the White House, they gave a brilliantly unexpected official response to the petition asking the Obama administration to construct a Death Star


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## Devil's Advocate

Texan Eagle said:


> This means The White House now has to give an official response to this petition since it crossed the 25,000 threshold.


The minimum threshold for a response has been raised to 100,000 signatures.


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## SarahZ

#26,686

I shared it on Facebook as well.


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## Texan Eagle

Devil's Advocate said:


> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This means The White House now has to give an official response to this petition since it crossed the 25,000 threshold.
> 
> 
> 
> The minimum threshold for a response has been raised to 100,000 signatures.
Click to expand...

Bummer  Difficult to get that many signatures. I believe the only one I know that got more than 100,000 signatures was the silly "Secede Texas from United States" petition.


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## Anderson

Just looking over the map, it's interesting to think about the "commuter nets" this creates:
-Nevada is going to be swamped with "tax exiles" from CA, I suspect. Reno becomes a bedroom community for Sacramento/San Francisco, and Vegas becomes the same for LA.
-Florida officially becomes one big metro area centered on "Orlampa".
-Hampton Roads becomes an appendage to the Northeast, as does Portland. This was already sort-of happening in slow motion. However, this will now extend clearly into NC as well.
-The Chicago commuter net extends to Cleveland, Des Moines, and deep into MO, WI, and southern IN. Anybody stuck working in Detroit can live far, far away.
-Seattle and Portland are also bedroom communities to one another.
-Cheyenne is likely to end up swamping the rest of WY because of Denver-oriented suburban development.


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## CHamilton

The petition has now gotten over 30,000 signatures in just over five days! Who knew there were that many foamers?  

Seriously, though, this may be an unrivaled chance to talk to your friends about improving rail service. I've already gotten queries from people who are asking basic questions. It's up to us to explain the pluses and minuses of the proposal on the map, as well as others. We may never get such a good chance again.

I've also sent NARP and my local rail advocacy group a message saying, in effect, "Don't let this opportunity pass you by! The press seems to be all over the story, so be out there with thoughtful analysis." For those of you who are members of NARP, please send your own comments. Let's hope they take advantage of this unexpected gift.


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## Devil's Advocate

Texan Eagle said:


> Devil's Advocate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texan Eagle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This means The White House now has to give an official response to this petition since it crossed the 25,000 threshold.
> 
> 
> 
> The minimum threshold for a response has been raised to 100,000 signatures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bummer  Difficult to get that many signatures. I believe the only one I know that got more than 100,000 signatures was the silly "Secede Texas from United States" petition.
Click to expand...

 Blatantly ignorant petitions by Texan traitors are probably a large part of why they raised the minimum threshold in the first place. It may sound like an unreasonable number at first but we're only talking about something on the order of 0.03% of the national population here. That's still perfectly viable in my view.



CHamilton said:


> We may never get such a good chance again.


Why would you say that?

Nearly every substantial advancement against ideological intransigence had been a long and involved process of slowly building consensus among otherwise disparate and disinterested parties. Seeing as how there is no limit on the number of times a pro-rail petition can be submitted I doubt this is our one and only chance to make any headway. On the plus side at least we're not trying to petition President Romney. That probably would be a lost cause.


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## CHamilton

Devil's Advocate said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> We may never get such a good chance again.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you say that?
> 
> Nearly every substantial advancement against ideological intransigence had been a long and involved process of slowly building consensus among otherwise disparate and disinterested parties. Seeing as how there is no limit on the number of times a pro-rail petition can be submitted I doubt this is our one and only chance to make any headway. On the plus side at least we're not trying to petition President Romney. That probably would be a lost cause.
Click to expand...

Your point is well taken. Nevertheless, it would be a shame to let this opportunity pass without taking advantage of it.


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## CHamilton

Here's an interesting response.

Why Covering The US In High-Speed Rail Makes No Sense At All

I agree with a lot of the points he makes, but...I wonder if he could have even gotten his article published in a general, business-oriented blog last week. Which is the point. For all of the map's flaws, it may spark the sort of reasoned discussion we need to have if we're ever going to have a decent rail system in this country.


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## Devil's Advocate

CHamilton said:


> Nevertheless, it would be a shame to let this opportunity pass without taking advantage of it.


Agreed. We could create a banner and add it to our signatures. Or even ask the admins if it could be added to the site as a public information service? Just brainstorming out loud here.


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## CHamilton

Devil's Advocate said:


> CHamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, it would be a shame to let this opportunity pass without taking advantage of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. We could create a banner and add it to our signatures. Or even ask the admins if it could be added to the site as a public information service? Just brainstorming out loud here.
Click to expand...

Yes, those are good ideas. But we also need to speak up outside the confines of places like AU. I don't generally post train-related stuff other than here, but I think it's time to let my non-train-fan friends know how I feel about this issue. Which means being more overtly political in my daily life than I usually like to be.


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## Devil's Advocate

It's not like you're suggesting they switch sides or anything. You're simply asking them to consider showing solidarity with your desire to see more passenger rail. While that may be a political position it's not an _*inherently*_ controversial or partisan position. I think the best way to sell passenger rail to non-fans is to remind them that the more passenger rail options there are for folks like us the fewer cars they'll see on the road ahead of them and the more seats will be available for their next flight. Even if we decided to upgrade every road in the country to handle more cars it would require decades of constant construction that would take years of our lives as we slowly meander around cones and barricades on our way to an endless number of detours. Better to build more passenger rail and free up road congestion while also keeping much of the construction away from the roads themselves. Trust me when I say that the folks who currently build our roads will be happy to build new passenger rail instead, so long as they get paid for it.


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## CHamilton

Devil's Advocate said:


> It's not like you're suggesting they switch sides or anything. You're simply asking them to consider showing solidarity with your desire to see more passenger rail. While that may be political in today's society it's not an _*inherently*_ controversial or partisan position. I think the best way to sell passenger rail to non-fans is to remind them that the more passenger rail options there are for folks like us the fewer cars they'll see on the road ahead of them and the more seats will be available for their next flight.


Indeed, yes. <looks for like button>


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## Anderson

And it seems that the pace is back up today. We're quickly closing on 35,000 (and have a modest chance of making that before midnight).

Also, there are three petitions that have made it to 100,000:
-The Texas one

-One on some strange Dutch situation

-One on Westboro Baptist Church (which is one on several on that subject)


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## MattW

I actually think this petition has merit in another way. While building out the entire system on the map may not be completely realistic, this petition could generate enough interest, or show that there's enough interest, to begin building smaller networks such as in the Midwest, Atlanta to Charlotte, etc., and to increase political support for these and the California HSR.


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## The Journalist

Signed and Facebooked. Just over 36,000 now...


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## CHamilton

The "Strange Maps" blog takes on the HSR map.

Fast Train to... Quincy? A Mirage Map of U.S. High Speed Rail



> What to do with a dream that's too big for reality? Among many other things, you could map it. Such a representation could serve as an exhortation - This is the plan, get going! But if the gap between cartography and reality remains unbridged, the exhortation becomes a souvenir of the road not taken, the map of an alternate reality where the fork in the road was negotiated differently.
> 
> Strangely enough, public transport systems seem particularly susceptible to the sort of dreams that can only live on maps. ...
> 
> This...putative map of what a high-speed rail network across the United States could look like. It was created by Alfred Twu. Mr. Twu is not just a designer at MWA Architects, a Bay Area bureau, he also a bit of a train nerd.


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## CHamilton

The HSR petition now has over 40,000 signatures. It seems to have slowed down a bit, but its total has been steadily increasing.


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## Devil's Advocate

Speaking of _signatures_, where's yours?


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## CHamilton

The high-speed rail petition on whitehouse.gov has now expired, and is no longer available. It had surpassed 53,000 signatures as of last night, which makes me feel that there is a very significant pool of support for better passenger rail services.

We all know that the specific system proposed on the original map had its flaws. But this effort -- which came out of nowhere, with no organized support from the usual advocacy organizations -- proved beyond a doubt that the old saw about "no one is interested in trains" *is just not true!*

<soapbox>

Now it's up to people like us to keep the momentum going. And we're going to have to fight to keep a national rail system viable, not only in Congress, but in the state legislatures. The most immediate battle is in Pennsylvania. Western Pennsylvanians for Passenger Rail has a very bare-bones website, but they're updating it regularly, and they're holding rallies like the upcoming one at the Lewistown Amtrak Station on Thursday, March 21, 2013. 

PA state legislators need to know that keeping the _Pennsylvanian_ going is a priority. Once a train is gone, is very hard to bring it back.

Your state's elected officials need to hear from us, too. Your state rail advocacy group needs our help to make sure that they get the message, loud and clear!

</soapbox>


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## Texan Eagle

Now that the ambitious NATIONWIDE high speed rail plan has been shot down, let me present my (quite badly edited) more *realistic* map of possible High Speed Rail network in the United States...







Let's not fool ourselves, the American West is way too sparsely populated to be feasible for high speed rail corridors, so instead why not focus on building them where they'll be used and makes sense.


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## xyzzy

It is a far more sensible map, congratulations. Still, I am unconvinced about Atlanta-Birmingham-New Orleans. It's a very high price to pay in order to avoid an isolated network in Texas and Louisiana.


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## jis

I also doubt very much that if a Northeast to Florida HSR materializes, it will actually pass through Atlanta. My bet is that it won't.


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## Anderson

Ditto. Frankly, I'd run something roughly down the A-line (albeit with a jog to cover Raleigh, at the very least) or the S-line. I would also add CHI-OMA[-Lincoln?] in, political hiccups notwithstanding. The longer-term support seems to be there in the end, and you have enough population on it (Quad Cities, Des Moines, and Omaha are probably enough to make it work).


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## CHamilton

Don't forget that the FRA has already designated a group of high-speed rail corridors. It's ironic, given the Pennsylvanian situation, that Pittsburgh-Harrisburg-Philadelphia is one of them.


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## Texan Eagle

Who came up with this *brilliant* idea of connecting Houston to New Orleans but not to Dallas, not to Austin and not to San Antonio either! Applause!

Also, what's the problem in connecting Jacksonville to Orlando and complete the east coast link? What great economic interest is served by keeping a tiny but gaping hole?


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## CHamilton

The 2009 variant of the above map shows "ten corridors (all previously designated as high-speed rail corridors by several successive Secretaries of Transportation) as well as the Northeast Corridor" which were "potential funding targets." IIRC, these corridors weren't intended to be a network, but at least this map shows how they might fit together.


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## Texan Eagle

CHamilton said:


> The 2009 variant of the above map shows "ten corridors (all previously designated as high-speed rail corridors by several successive Secretaries of Transportation) as well as the Northeast Corridor" which were "potential funding targets." IIRC, these corridors weren't intended to be a network, but at least this map shows how they might fit together.


Again I repeat my question from the previous map, same thing seems repeated here too-

If "designated high speed corridor" runs from New Orleans to Houston and another one runs from San Antonio-Austin-Dallas, what is the reason for keeping Houston-San Antonio *gap* as "other passenger rail route"? What strategic/economic benefit is derived by keeping Houston away from the other three Texas cities?

Similarly, what possible advantage is derived by not completing the eastern designated high speed corridor upto Miami and instead keeping a small "gap" between Jacksonville and Orlando? It's like, if and when this thing becomes a reality, passengers will be told "Yea, you can travel from Northeast to Florida by high speed rail, Orlando, Tampa, Miami all have high speed rail, but but but... sorry, you can't travel to either of those cities, you must get off in Jacksonville and then hop across by some other rail to Orlando and then continue" Retarded, ain't it?


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## Ryan

Who said anything about having to get off in JAX? The corridors are "potential funding targets", nothing more.


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## Anderson

My biggest issue with those maps was the gap between Cleveland on one side and Buffalo/Pittsburgh on the other. Likewise,I'd be inclined to just fill in the gaps JAX-ORL, Little Rock-St. Louis, and/or Tulsa/Kansas City.


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## afigg

Texan Eagle said:


> Who came up with this *brilliant* idea of connecting Houston to New Orleans but not to Dallas, not to Austin and not to San Antonio either! Applause!
> Also, what's the problem in connecting Jacksonville to Orlando and complete the east coast link? What great economic interest is served by keeping a tiny but gaping hole?


However, Dallas/FW to Houston has HSIPR funding to study building a HSR route. I would not read to much into a older map of initial HSR corridors.
As for your revised map, it should have a Tucson-Phoenix to LA HSR line. Phoenix to LA region is one of the busiest city/regional air routes in the US. I think if the CA HSR system and the Xpress West line to Las Vegas are built, an extension to Phoenix is going to happen. Colorado may well build an isolated HSR system along the front range and up into the mountains.


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## George Harris

What seems to have not been done but easily could be, is to look at the traffic volume between cities by road and by air and match up the proposed rail corridors with the heaviest of these. Maybe that is simply to simple and leaves out the various politicians and promoters.


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