# Late Night in the Lounge Car...



## Rick (Oct 25, 2006)

Not too very long ago, I took my family on a circle trip from Chicago to San francisco to Los Angeles and then back to Chicago. We scrimmped and saved and were able to book a bedroom suite for the entire trip. We loved the train but were shocked at all of the people sleeping on the floor of the sightseer lounge car during the night. It looked terrible and I was surprised that Amtrak allowed this. People were everywhere! It looked like a flophouse for crying out loud. I have traveled with a private room and have also traveled coach many times over the years. I've never noticed people camping out on the floor of the lounge at night like I did during this trip. In my opinion, it shouldn't be allowed. <_< It seems like it would be a safety issue in the first place, and in the second, it looked so tacky. I am curious as to other opinions on this. Thanks.....!!!


----------



## racer1735 (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree and have seen similar conduct on the Texas Eagle. My thoughts are that people purchase the coach ticket, which is about the cheapest way that anyone can travel, then they find the car with the most space and 'make it theirs'. People lying on the floor would be a dangerous situation in an emergency.


----------



## MrFSS (Oct 25, 2006)

Rick said:


> Not too very long ago, I took my family on a circle trip from Chicago to San Francisco to Los Angeles and then back to Chicago. We scrimped and saved and were able to book a bedroom suite for the entire trip. We loved the train but were shocked at all of the people sleeping on the floor of the sightseer lounge car during the night. It looked terrible and I was surprised that Amtrak allowed this. People were everywhere! It looked like a flophouse for crying out loud. I have traveled with a private room and have also traveled coach many times over the years. I've never noticed people camping out on the floor of the lounge at night like I did during this trip. In my opinion, it shouldn't be allowed. <_< It seems like it would be a safety issue in the first place, and in the second, it looked so tacky. I am curious as to other opinions on this. Thanks.....!!!


Where were they on the floor - in the center aisle, or between the seats and the windows? I think a word to the conductor would be in order, and, perhaps a call to Amtrak customer service.


----------



## Anthony (Oct 25, 2006)

I saw this often on the Southwest Chief - people would either sprawl out on the floor between the chairs and the windows, or across the chairs themselves. I never saw anyone actually in the center aisle. The conductors seemed to tolerate it - though I never really saw this before about midnight.


----------



## Train Lover (Oct 25, 2006)

I have actually caught some shut eye in the lounge of the Meteor on quite a few occasions. IT was much better than sleeping in the coach car. The lounges always seem to have a much better time controlling the temp in the car than anywhere else. But I wouldn't ever sleep on the floor. I would just nestle up in one of the more farther tables and sleep. The conductor never minded it, I've even asked him/her.


----------



## Bill Haithcoat (Oct 25, 2006)

Actually sometimes passengers are in the lounge car or domes(when they had them) or such because there is no room due to over-sold, or equipment shortage or some such.or maybe around holidays.

I remember one trip when we had to start out in the lounge car and got seats later. I remember two trips l when I had to stand in the vestibule, once for 3 hrs,and another time for about an hour.until some seats opened up.

Further, I even remember witnessing people having to sit up in a diner all night due to holiday crush. And if that is not bad enough, the train lost about five hours creepinig along around the remains of a wreck, in the middle of the night, until they could add two coaches the next morning. Chiropractors probably made a bucket off that, and rightly so. I was in a sleeper. We had to wait on breakfast the next morinng, until those two coaches could be added and the diner cleared of people "sleepiing".


----------



## benale (Oct 25, 2006)

I ve seen people sprawled out on those triple seats in the lounge car. People do sleep on the floor too. I think one of the reasons people will sleep in the sightseer car is for privacy. If you are traveling alone and are seated next to someone it can be a little uncomfortable to think of spending the night with this person. Most of the time it's no problem, but I ve encoutered seat mates who have body odor, who are quite obese or just plain obnoxious, and on an overnight trip in coach, I will sleep in the sightseer car, but I sleep in a chair , not on the floor. Sometimes I will ask the conductor if there is an empty set of seats in one of the cars that won t be occupied until daylight, and he ll let me move there.


----------



## gswager (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree with Benale about sleeping in the lounge/sightseer car. Other reason would be difficult to sleep on the seat, thus much easier to sleep lying flat. As long as the center aisle is clear, it should be ok.


----------



## printman2000 (Oct 25, 2006)

We road the Texas Eagle (for fun) from Dallas to Fort Worth. We, of course, spent most of the time in the almost empty lounge. My youngest (5) laid down on a souble seat and went to sleep. The coach attendant who was cleaning in the lounge, while I don't remember exactly what he said, said something like "I guess I will let him sleep there." (he was playing with us)

Anyway, it gave me the impression they would not normally tolerate people sleeping in the lounge. Maybe that is only during the day.


----------



## Illini (Oct 25, 2006)

Whenever I ride back to school on #59, if the seat next to me in coach is occupied and there is an open chair in the lounge, I'd much rather sleep there. Not that I'm unfriendly, but I find it uncomfortable to sleep that close to a total stranger. That said, if people are sprawled out in the aisle, that's not only dangerous but disgusting!


----------



## Navy 118 (Oct 25, 2006)

I will be quite honest, on the long cross country trains the lounge car is the place to sleep. The curved chairs are by far the best. Also gazing out the large windows is a plus  . Some say vagrants, I say good night sleep.


----------



## RailFanLNK (Oct 25, 2006)

I was on the CZ the first week of October and the "lounge car" looked like a hostel without bunkbeds. :lol: I even snapped some pics of some of the "residents" sleeping in thier "private bedrooms". There was at least 8 people sleeping in the lounge car either in the seats or on the floors at 9am. And if they were sleeping in the seats, they were taking up two seats and not one. I hadn't ever seen this before. A person or two I can understand, but it was people plain sleeping, pillows, blankets, shoes off etc. :huh:


----------



## sutton (Oct 26, 2006)

Well, I don't have any real problems with sleeping between midnight and 6 or 7 am, but by 7am when people want to come make use of the observation car, Amtrak personnel ought to rouse the zombies and make them share the seats. If not, I'd say something myself.


----------



## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Oct 27, 2006)

I will make mention of this issue as if we are in a normal setting, with that being each passenger on board has an assigned seat being there are enough seats for all. Things are much different when Amtrak has oversold a "reserved" seat. That burns my butt because a customer is expecting that seat to be there damnit!!! If it is not available, then "what was the point of reserving my seat two months ago" is what's going through the passenger's mind! But anyway..........

I don't normally bother folks sleeping in the lounge car at a table (sitting up), etc. during the closed hours of the cafe itself. But I will have to wake you up and ask you to return to your seat if someone has complained about you sprawled out like you think you're in a sleeping car. Yes, I have about seen it all. One night on the SB "Silver Star," I came through to do my restroom check in the lounge car, and found a scantly clad woman in nothing but her bra and panties asleep, and her young 11yo son was asleep butt @#$ naked!! I mean c-mon now (and the lady was good lookin' too, but geesh out in the open like that?)!!! Also, passengers are not permitted to sleep laying down on the floor anywhere on the train (why anyone would want to do that is beyond me... I just know how dirty they get)! But again, unless someone complains, is very near business hours, or way off the wall like my example, I will leave you alone simply for the customer relations reasons! I try to keep happy passengers!!!! OBS...


----------



## had8ley (Oct 27, 2006)

WOW !!! The amount of disrespect for fellow passengers is awesome...the best thing Amtrak ever did was to discontinue the smoking rooms on the Superliner trains. They were someone's idea of how to segregate the smokers from the rest of the world. Unfortunately, the entire coach reeked of cigarette smoke because smoke rises and the room was on the lower level. We ALWAYS saw someone in there with their own supply of alcohol which seemed to inflate them to Superman status. Not once did we see any on board personnel do anything to quell arguments or outright drunks harrassing those that chose not to listen to their life's story of dismal failures. The OBS comment was interesting but we saw two people engaged in what should have taken place in a Motel 6 on the Sunset at 3 p.m. while sitting in the station in El Paso !!! Thank goodness we gave up smoking. It wasn't long after that Amtrak started their smoking ban.


----------



## Dave (Mar 18, 2009)

what time of day was this? if it was between midnight and 6 am (when the cafe is closed), I don't know what your problem is. So you wanted to sit in the lounge and stare out windows at 3 am? and you were upset because some people were sleeping in there when you had an actual bed to sleep in?

the sensible crews take this approach: after midnight you can sleep on the floor between the seats, if you are sensible about it. someone will come through when the cafe opens at 6 and say good morning! or something, to let you know it is time to get up. then you should get up.

on lines that have replaced the viewliner with the superliner, some crews don't know that this is the right and sensible approach and i had one a**h*** conductor basically shout at me about it so i sat up and stared out the window for an hour. how this affected his train whether i was sitting up or lying down i have no idea. but since he is a conductor on a train at 3 am, yeah i can see how he relishes any opportunity to be a jerk to people.

there are probably about half a dozen spots to sleep. for people who are stuck next to a crazy or disgusting person, for people who just absolutely cannot sleep in a seat, these spots are the difference between a pleasant journey and a rolling two day hell. if that interferes with you ability to stare out the window at 4 in the morning in the lounge car, you are pretty selfish.


----------



## PetalumaLoco (Mar 18, 2009)

Thread resurrection; 2 yrs, 6 mo, is this a record?

had8ley, you don't need to answer until October of 2011...


----------



## GG-1 (Mar 18, 2009)

PetalumaLoco said:


> Thread resurrection; 2 yrs, 6 mo, is this a record?had8ley, you don't need to answer until October of 2011...


So Had8ley can wait until the AU Gathering in ???. Of course his means he must remember this subject until then. Good luck, I already forget what we are typing about :lol:

Aloha


----------



## Long Train Runnin' (Mar 18, 2009)

whoa! I didn't notice this was 2 years old until Petalumaloco's comment! I was like why didn't OBS go freight yet :lol:


----------



## Bill Haithcoat (Mar 18, 2009)

I could be wrong but I think we have had topics resurrected after 4 or 5 or more years.


----------



## henryj (Mar 18, 2009)

These people that are complaining about having to sit next to a stranger must never flown on a plane and got the middle seat on a long flight. Talk about being close to your neighbor.............

I'll take a train seat any day over being crammed in one of those planes.

The worst thing to see on a plane.............A huge ugly passenger coming down the aisle and the open seat next to you is the only one left. lol.


----------



## Mark (Mar 18, 2009)

I can't say I ever seem to remember people sleeping overnight in the Lounges when I've rode in Coach or Sleeper. The attendant made a last call and that was it, the car was officially closed. I do recall one time an attendant actually shagging people out at about midnight, (so he could round up the trash and sweep), when I went back from my compartment to get a night cap. I imagine though, after he or she goes off duty anything could go on in that car as long as the Conductors don't mind. Personally, I don't care for it. People don't sleep in the diner, those flat tables and soft benches may be nicer to sleep on too. Now that's not to say people couldn't nod off during the day in the lounge in one of the seats. That doesn't bother me, but what I do tend to dislike are the Lounge Car hogs who seem to spend their entire trip in the Lounge. To that I say, "Hey, give someone else a chance to sit in there, its a shared facility." Particularly on a crowded train. Sleeping overnight on the floor in the Lounge, is just another way of being a space hog. Your ticket reads "Coach" not "Go ahead and sleep in the lounge as a second class sleeping car." I would definitely call Amtrak if I noticed this happening on one of my trips. As previously stated, it looks _tacky_.


----------



## Everydaymatters (Mar 18, 2009)

Absolutely *tacky*. Couldn't agree more. Don't these people have any dignity??? I don't know why, but I'm willing to overlook a struggling young student crashing wherever, or a young member of the military, but beyond that, no way.


----------



## Upstate (Mar 18, 2009)

Mark said:


> Your ticket reads "Coach" not "Go ahead and sleep in the lounge as a second class sleeping car."


Until they create a 2nd class sleeping car, I have no problems with people sleeping on the floor.
Obviously there is a market for 2nd class sleepers so why not get some cars converted into 2nd class sleepers. At least for the longer ones like SSL, CZ, EB. If I can't get a good price on a sleeper for a cross country trip I am going to fly and get a round trip fare for probably the same price as three days in a coach seat. Give me a open berth sleeper at a reasonable price and I will be more likely to take the train.


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 18, 2009)

I really think that if you are in coach, you should at least try to sleep there. I know for most people, sleeping upright in a chair is not doable. But, my thought is if you must lay flat, try to get a roomette/bedroom for your journey. To me, sleeping on a floor would be last resort because the floor will be dirty, it's really not a safe place to be, especially if someone is trying to walk around you. As for sleeping in the sightseer car, it's not designed for this purpose, even though I understand that people do use it & the staff may allow it, again safety concerns would be an issue. I have noticed a comment here and there about people wandering into the car at 3 am while people are sleeping, with the attitude that they shouldn't coming in there that early, that the person was being selfish. I find that odd. Let me give you an example: my husband & I have booked a trip with bedrooms for the whole trip. Hubby would not be able to sleep in a chair. I always wake up a minimum of 1 hour before him (dark thirty). Sometimes I can go back to sleep, but not always.

My options would be: wake him up!! (not a good idea)

Quietly have a cup in the dark in the room. (for up to 2 hours)

Get showered, dressed grab coffee and go to the sightseer lounge where hopefully, I would not be disturbing anyone.

Which would you choose? Am I being selfish by not wanting to disturb my sleeping husband or anyone else?

I realize not everyone can afford a roomette/bedroom every trip. Does that entitle you to floor space in another car?

I'm not unsympathetic, but I do think it's unreasonable for others to have to accomodate someone sleeping on the floor.

Now before I get a 'but you're rich' response, we are not. We've been talking about this trip for 3 years, and saved the money for it. Granted, we did save it rather quickly when we finally decided to do it this year, but we did save it, & it wasn't cheap. Maybe the best solution would be for Amtrak to get some old fashioned pullman style cars for those who cannot afford roomette/bedrooms. I would be surprised though if they would do that. Sorry it's so lengthy, but seriously, I will probably be in the sightseer car as early 5:00 am.

Sunchaser


----------



## WICT106 (Mar 18, 2009)

Upstate said:


> Mark said:
> 
> 
> > Your ticket reads "Coach" not "Go ahead and sleep in the lounge as a second class sleeping car."
> ...



You mean, something like the "Slumbercoach" ?

See link here

or

This ?

or

This ? 

They were economical versions of a second-class accommodation.


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 18, 2009)

WICT106 said:


> Upstate said:
> 
> 
> > Mark said:
> ...


Sorry for butting in. I was thinking of a very old movie, 'Some like it hot' -check this-

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BOTk2...X450_SY363_.jpg

While I'm not an expert, I did stumble across this link for 'couchette' in Germany-kinda cool- much more modern

http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/DB/LiegewagenCNLDB/

Now I have no idea how much it would cost, but to me, it would a very attractive alternative to the floor!

Just a thought. Sorry I should have included this in the earlier post.

Sunchaser


----------



## amtrak51 (Mar 18, 2009)

This happened once to me on the CZ to Colorado. The Southwest Chief was running late so Amtrak let the CZ run without a coach. So they packed about 20-50 people in the lounge and some had to sleep there all night till we reached Denver (I think). I have never seen anyone do this by choice.


----------



## Upstate (Mar 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> Now I have no idea how much it would cost, but to me, it would a very attractive alternative to the floor!Just a thought. Sorry I should have included this in the earlier post.


The couchette car would probably cost a bit less than a modern slumbercoach. It looks very simple and probably holds more people too. I would love to see Amtrak do a couchette car.


----------



## ThayerATM (Mar 18, 2009)

Everydaymatters said:


> Absolutely *tacky*. Couldn't agree more. Don't these people have any dignity??? I don't know why, but I'm willing to overlook a struggling young student crashing wherever, or a young member of the military, but beyond that, no way.


People who sleep on the floor of a lounge car have no dignity. They're low life, and deserve to be treated as such. No matter how they try to rationalize it, they are without any redeeming social value.


----------



## ThayerATM (Mar 18, 2009)

Dave said:


> what time of day was this? if it was between midnight and 6 am (when the cafe is closed), I don't know what your problem is. So you wanted to sit in the lounge and stare out windows at 3 am? and you were upset because some people were sleeping in there when you had an actual bed to sleep in?...
> ...there are probably about half a dozen spots to sleep. for people who are stuck next to a crazy or disgusting person, for people who just absolutely cannot sleep in a seat, these spots are the difference between a pleasant journey and a rolling two day hell. if that interferes with you ability to stare out the window at 4 in the morning in the lounge car, you are pretty selfish.


Rationalize it any way you want. Sleeping on the floor of a lounge car represents low life, and I would consider you as such. I sure hope I don't have to meet the likes of YOU on any train.


----------



## AAARGH! (Mar 18, 2009)

ThayerATM said:


> Everydaymatters said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely *tacky*. Couldn't agree more. Don't these people have any dignity??? I don't know why, but I'm willing to overlook a struggling young student crashing wherever, or a young member of the military, but beyond that, no way.
> ...


Thayer, are you being serious? :huh:


----------



## JayPea (Mar 18, 2009)

I tend to spend a lot of time in the lounge at night, because A) My job is a graveyard shift job and I'm used to being awake at that hour and B) I don't sleep that well under the best of circumstances. I don't remember seeing anyone on the floor of the lounge, but several people sleeping there. Any train I've been on, I've seen the conductor wake them up promptly at six AM.


----------



## ThayerATM (Mar 18, 2009)

AAARGH said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > Everydaymatters said:
> ...


To some extent, yes. I don't travel coach, so my opinion is biased, and I realize that there might be extenuating circumstances. Still, I think that sleeping on the *dirty *floor of a lounge car is a sign of *no *dignity, and represents low life. At least sitting up in a seat and sleeping represents something more than sleeping on a *dirty* floor.


----------



## jis (Mar 18, 2009)

Upstate said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have no idea how much it would cost, but to me, it would a very attractive alternative to the floor!Just a thought. Sorry I should have included this in the earlier post.
> ...


Here are two examples of low cost sleeping accommodation:

AC 3-Tier Sleeper holds 64 per car

AC 2-Tier Sleeper holds 48 per car

In addition to what you see there are two berths lengthwise along the corridor in front of each open cubicle thus accommodating 6 per cube in 2-Tier and 8 per cube in 3-Tier.

Both are commonly available on most mail/express trains in India. Bedding is provided as part of the ticket in 2-Tier and can be rented in 3-Tier. Typical overnight trains have somewhere between 2 and 8 3-Tiers and between 1 and 5 2-Tiers. The 2-Tiers are a bit more expensive than the 3 Tiers. A 2 Tiers berth is about half the cost of a berth in a bedroom (including transport). Overnight travel in Chair Cars (Coach) is simply not accepted as a viable option by middle class travelers in India.


----------



## PaulM (Mar 18, 2009)

sunchaser said:


> While I'm not an expert, I did stumble across this link for 'couchette' in Germany-kinda cool- much more modern
> http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/DB/LiegewagenCNLDB/
> 
> Now I have no idea how much it would cost, but to me, it would a very attractive alternative to the floor!


Couchettes in French or liegewagen in German are basically cars with a compartment somewhat deeper (front to back in the direction of the train) than Superliner bedrooms with 3 bunks stacked against the front facing wall and 3 against the rear. Unless you happen to reserve all 6 spaces, you would be sharing the room with strangers. You get a sheet, blanket, and pillow. The cost had been approximately $25 for quite a while.

I found them very nice, unless you ran into noisy students (although I could sympathize since I would have been extremely excited to be able to travel like that when I was a student). A problem for Amtrak LD distance trains would be the fact that the bunks are fixed; there is no place to sit during the day. Most overnight western European trains depart around 10:00 and arrive around 8:00. So, if I wasn't ready to sleep, I would stand in the corridor with my head not quite out the open window. Quite an experience rocketing along at over 100 mph in a normal, i.e., not high speed train.

Note: Amtrak slumber coaches were something entirely different, just sleepers with smaller compartments. Then there were cars with what I believe were called sections, i.e., upper and lower berths with a curtain separating them from the center aisle. During the day they would become two facing double seats.


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 18, 2009)

PaulM said:


> sunchaser said:
> 
> 
> > While I'm not an expert, I did stumble across this link for 'couchette' in Germany-kinda cool- much more modern
> ...


So you would pay only for the berth (couchette) & not for a seat as well? Interesting...I was thinking they did look like they were stationary, & I thought maybe you would pay for your seat & extra for the couchette. Unless it's strictly overnight. As far as sharing the room with strangers, that's exactly what's going on in coach. You are sleeping in a room with strangers.

Sunchaser


----------



## TimePeace (Mar 18, 2009)

All these comments about "Low Lifes" show conclusively that the class system is not dead. Easy to call someone sleeping on the floor tacky or low life, without having any idea of extenuating circumstances.

Easy to call someone tacky from a sleeper car. I just priced out a roomette on the train from NYC to FLA at almost $400!!!! Plus coach fare. Give me a break. $400 for one night??

I would avoid at all costs sleeping on the floor in any public space - but would not fail to respect anyone else doing so, if it was not jeopardizing anyone else's health or safety.


----------



## Upstate (Mar 18, 2009)

PaulM said:


> A problem for Amtrak LD distance trains would be the fact that the bunks are fixed; there is no place to sit during the day.


They can make them where the bottom bunk turns into a couch and the two top bunks fold away.


----------



## Upstate (Mar 18, 2009)

ThayerATM said:


> To some extent, yes. I don't travel coach, so my opinion is biased, and I realize that there might be extenuating circumstances. Still, I think that sleeping on the *dirty *floor of a lounge car is a sign of *no *dignity, and represents low life. At least sitting up in a seat and sleeping represents something more than sleeping on a *dirty* floor.


I guess I have no dignity for enjoying camping and sleeping on the dirty ground.

Heck, with the privacy that a sleeper entails, who knows what kind of stuff people do in those compartments. I would be more scared of the sleeper attendant not fully cleaning the compartment.


----------



## OlympianHiawatha (Mar 18, 2009)

Perhaps with all the new rolling stock being considered, Amtrak could look into something along the lines of the open section Touralux cars used on the *Olympian Hiawatha*. They were the streamliner version of the classic Upper and Lower which were facing seats during the day and curtained bunks at night.


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 18, 2009)

radsboy said:


> All these comments about "Low Lifes" show conclusively that the class system is not dead. Easy to call someone sleeping on the floor tacky or low life, without having any idea of extenuating circumstances.
> Easy to call someone tacky from a sleeper car. I just priced out a roomette on the train from NYC to FLA at almost $400!!!! Plus coach fare. Give me a break. $400 for one night??
> 
> I would avoid at all costs sleeping on the floor in any public space - but would not fail to respect anyone else doing so, if it was not jeopardizing anyone else's health or safety.


I do not agree that someone sleeeping on the floor is tacky. I do agree the prices can be high for roomettes/bedrooms.

But if you plan way ahead, they will be cheaper. In our case, we booked in late February for a trip at the end of June. The bedrooms were high, & I watched them climb as we saved for the trip. So we cut back more to book a little sooner. Two weeks later, the price went up another $200!! I'm glad we booked them when we did. I'm hoping if there is a next time that we book much earlier than that to save more. Like I said before, it would be great for those that can't get a roomette/bedroom for whatever reason, if they had something like the couchette so no one would have to be on the floor.


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 18, 2009)

Upstate said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > To some extent, yes. I don't travel coach, so my opinion is biased, and I realize that there might be extenuating circumstances. Still, I think that sleeping on the *dirty *floor of a lounge car is a sign of *no *dignity, and represents low life. At least sitting up in a seat and sleeping represents something more than sleeping on a *dirty* floor.
> ...


EWWW, way too much info!!!!!!!Please remember there are underage members on this board!!! If you are that worried, maybe you should carry disinfectant wipes wherever you go & make sure you wipe down everything you touch before you touch it!!!!


----------



## ThayerATM (Mar 18, 2009)

Upstate said:


> ThayerATM said:
> 
> 
> > To some extent, yes. I don't travel coach, so my opinion is biased, and I realize that there might be extenuating circumstances. Still, I think that sleeping on the *dirty *floor of a lounge car is a sign of *no *dignity, and represents low life. At least sitting up in a seat and sleeping represents something more than sleeping on a *dirty* floor.
> ...


I think that any reasonably thinking individual would understand the differenced between a "camping" person sleeping on the "dirty" ground, and a coach passenger sleeping on the dirty floor of a lounge car on an Amtrak train represent two entirely different scenarios.

Try as you might, spinning "*low life*"... still remains, as I said, *low life*.


----------



## Ispolkom (Mar 18, 2009)

PaulM said:


> A problem for Amtrak LD distance trains would be the fact that the bunks are fixed; there is no place to sit during the day.
> Note: Amtrak slumber coaches were something entirely different, just sleepers with smaller compartments. Then there were cars with what I believe were called sections, i.e., upper and lower berths with a curtain separating them from the center aisle. During the day they would become two facing double seats.


At least some couchette cars do convert to daytime seats. Here is a nice description of them, with diagrams. I remember taking one from Paris to Pisa a long time ago, a long-enough trip that the sleeping car attendent came through and made up the compartment several hours into the trip. It was a fine trip, but I don't think I'd like to spend more time than overnight in them -- six people in a compartment was rather tight.

The slumbercoaches were definitely not for the claustrophobic, though, again, they were a relatively inexpensive sleeper, especially when traveling alone. And they did have one or two double rooms that were much like a Superliner roomette.

Given the choice of sections, couchettes, and the slumbercoach, I'd give the nod to the slumbercoach. My impression is that from the end of World War II on most American railroads turned away from section sleepers, and I imagine they were following consumer demand. Plus, the slumbercoach would give an option to the solo traveler, who now has to pay almost double what a couple does.


----------



## Upstate (Mar 18, 2009)

ThayerATM said:


> Upstate said:
> 
> 
> > ThayerATM said:
> ...


If you saw the way I camp you would probably lump me in with the "low life" sightseer sleepers.
I sure hope you are not a churchgoing person.


----------



## Dan O (Mar 18, 2009)

ThayerATM said:


> Dave said:
> 
> 
> > what time of day was this? if it was between midnight and 6 am (when the cafe is closed), I don't know what your problem is. So you wanted to sit in the lounge and stare out windows at 3 am? and you were upset because some people were sleeping in there when you had an actual bed to sleep in?...
> ...


I must say some folks have a liberal definition of low life. Nope, never slept on the lounge car floor. I'd rather not have to step over them. But maybe they are stuck next to someone who is pretty obnoxious in coach. Personally, I can sleep most anywhere so coach was no problem. I didn't even have to have the leg rest up to sleep. And I slept quite well.

Dan


----------



## RRrich (Mar 18, 2009)

Most of the kids in my High School classes were able to sleep sitting up - why can't you?


----------



## Dave (Mar 19, 2009)

Well Thayer, i may "be low life" but at least have some command of the English language. You meant to say I _am a_ low life. Or at least used some kind of article in your sentence. As for the "you can keep spinning ..." comment, does anyone have a Nonsense-to-English phrase book?

That's fine, and if the thought of seeing a person hiding behind the seats (you can hardly see them at all) is so horrifying that you can't bear the thought of it, then perhaps you are just the sort of lunatic that drives people to need to get away from a crowded coach full of humanity, and sleep for 5 hours overnight under the seats. I guess I really don't see what is so disgusting about it, you put your head on a jacket or on your arm, and apart from that, it isn't like you strip down to your undies and roll around. But whatever, apparently your sense of overall wellbeing ("oh my gosh, they are spinning low-life" or whatever similar thoughts you may have) is more important than the sanity of your fellow passengers (imagine being stuck next to a disgusting or crazy person that talks gibberish like "spinning low life" for two days), oh well. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, a few legitimate points were raised:

1) Some people want to use the lounge car at 3am (partner is snoring, etc.). The table half of the lounge car shouldn't have anybody in it. It is impossible to sleep there, you have half of the car. The dining car is empty, sit there. You're a first class passenger, they won't care, or ask somebody.

2) It looks tacky. Okay, sure. That's fine.

I would absolutely love it if Amtrak got a mid-level service with bunks. It would be ideal for a lot of people. For others, they wouldn't like it at all. My theory is that is would be difficult to do with ADA -- you need to provide a similar service for disabled people, would that mean Accessible bedroom? Watch the "disabled people" (real and not) come through the woodwork to get the accessible bedroom at the bunk price.

I mean, what it comes down to is that for some people, unless and until Amtrak puts in a way to sleep that doesn't cost $250 a night, for some people, being able to temporarily take up three seats for a few hours is the difference between being able to get a few hours of sleep or showing up in at their destination having not slept in days and maybe reconsidering why they should go on living.


----------



## i guess I am a houligan... (Mar 19, 2009)

I have a hard time sleeping next to someone I don't know in coach, hell I have a hard time sleeping next to someone I do know in coach. So I will always go in the lounge and sprawl out on the 3 seat chairs. I can actually get more than 2 hours of sleep that way. If that makes me a bum, I will say I am a bum. I am a banker, so I am getting used to being called names anyways!

Brad


----------



## Amtrak OBS Gone Freight (Mar 19, 2009)

Personally, I say this all in Amtrak's best interest (as this discussion was brought back from the dead) that we should let this one drift back into oblivion. As a matter of fact, I believe one of the moderators should just lock this thread in the best interest of Amtrak. The subject matter has grown kinda tacky IMO as a former Amtrak employee.

It's like this... simply put, if the train crew does not have a problem or receive complaints about this type behavior then we should live and let live. Anyway about it, if someone is obviously causing a safety issue/hazard by this behavior or it is complained about then something should be done (especially in the event of safety). A coach car is a coach car! A sleeper car is a sleeper car! A lounge car is a lounge car! Dining car.... I think most of us have got it by now. Why don't we simply utilize each car for its intention to begin with? IMHO that would be the best course of action. Otherwise one needs to plan their trip with another style of transportation.

But please. In Amtrak's best interest, let's just allow this thread die, now. Thanks... from a former employee...

OBS gone freight...


----------



## Konrad (Mar 19, 2009)

i guess I am a houligan... said:


> I have a hard time sleeping next to someone I don't know in coach, hell I have a hard time sleeping next to someone I do know in coach. So I will always go in the lounge and sprawl out on the 3 seat chairs. I can actually get more than 2 hours of sleep that way. If that makes me a bum, I will say I am a bum. I am a banker, so I am getting used to being called names anyways! Brad


Horace Greeley said 'Go west, young man' but it seems the message ended at the West Coast. You'll spend 14 hours IN AN ASSIGNED SEAT (oh, the humanity!) to cross the Pacific Ocean and the seat will be much more confined than anything Amtrak has on offer (but the food will be better).

Homeland Security messages are broadcast during the flight forbidding gathering in the vicinity of the lavatories (totally ignored by passengers and crew on Qantas) but try to sleep on the floor and you'll be handed to airport security upon arrival.

Point being: You've got a very generous seat, you've paid bugger all for it, sleep in it.

But don't get me started on assigned seating - luggage for a month of travel off the CL onto a Regional at WAS and I HAVE TO FIND A SEAT! And from a low level platform, at that :angry: .


----------



## tp49 (Mar 19, 2009)

Dave said:


> Well Thayer, i may "be low life" but at least have some command of the English language. You meant to say I _am a_ low life. Or at least used some kind of article in your sentence. As for the "you can keep spinning ..." comment, does anyone have a Nonsense-to-English phrase book?


I rarely do this but my good sir if you wish to criticize one's command of the English language look at your own writing. You wrote a sentence that has no subject. Yes, I noticed more errors than that but I will just leave it at what I stated. Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle. Kettle, this is Pot.

As for the topic at hand, I agree with OBS. If the crew has an issue with people sleeping in the lounge car or it is creating a safety issue they can either clear out the car or restrict access to the lounge car after hours.


----------



## Everydaymatters (Mar 19, 2009)

ThayerATM said:


> AAARGH said:
> 
> 
> > ThayerATM said:
> ...


I'm the one that asked if they had no dignity and I just remembered my sister sleeping on the floor in coach. I think we were in one of the last seats and she was sooooo sick. We should have cancelled the trip, but I didn't know how sick she was and she didn't want to disappoint me. No, she was not a low life, she was a loving, caring person.


----------



## PRR 60 (Mar 19, 2009)

As I probably stated somewhere way back, my problem is not with the people sleeping in the Sightseer lounge. I'm sure they are fine folks and just want to find a place to stretch out. My problem is with Amtrak allowing them to do it and creating a rather unsightly scene in a car that should be among the pleasures of rail travel. People will do what people are allowed to do. Amtrak, by not prohibiting the practice, by default permits the practice. So, if Ma and Pa Kettle or their tattooed nephew wants to sleep across a lounge seat, go for it. I don't think that reflects on the person so much as it reflects on Amtrak's lack of desire to maintain a civilized atmosphere on the train.

That said, one problem is that the Amtrak coach seats, considering their size and the seat pitch, are not, in my opinion, particularly comfortable for overnight travel . They are nothing like even routine airline first class or business class long-haul seats. And, were I single traveller or just the odd passenger (no jokes, please!) in an odd numbered group, the lack of an armrest to establish the demarcation between my space and the other passenger's space would make me very uncomfortable. I think that trying to sleep in an Amtrak coach seat with the constant fear that the snoring slob next to me may shift position and end up in my lap would not be particularly pleasant. And let's not even get into the ugly possibilities if that snoring slob is what Southwest Airlines calls a "POS" (no, not that: a Person of Size).


----------



## sunchaser (Mar 19, 2009)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> Personally, I say this all in Amtrak's best interest (as this discussion was brought back from the dead) that we should let this one drift back into oblivion. As a matter of fact, I believe one of the moderators should just lock this thread in the best interest of Amtrak. The subject matter has grown kinda tacky IMO as a former Amtrak employee.
> It's like this... simply put, if the train crew does not have a problem or receive complaints about this type behavior then we should live and let live. Anyway about it, if someone is obviously causing a safety issue/hazard by this behavior or it is complained about then something should be done (especially in the event of safety). A coach car is a coach car! A sleeper car is a sleeper car! A lounge car is a lounge car! Dining car.... I think most of us have got it by now. Why don't we simply utilize each car for its intention to begin with? IMHO that would be the best course of action. Otherwise one needs to plan their trip with another style of transportation.
> 
> But please. In Amtrak's best interest, let's just allow this thread die, now. Thanks... from a former employee...
> ...


I agree with OBS. I want to add just a few more thoughts. For those who want to upgrade to a sleeper, but worried about the cost, from what I understand, you can check with the Conductor after boarding & possibly get low bucket price. See the sleeper upgrade thread on the main page.

One last thought before they put this thread to bed  IF Amtrak chose to, maybe adding more 'quiet cars' on LD trains would do the trick. But for me, if I was much younger, coach would be ok, but I probably wouldn't be on the floor, & only on couches with permission. My thought is that I don't want to make myself comfortable at someone else's expense. And even though bedrooms/roomettes are more money, it is supposed to be relaxing & fun, not a hassle.

For me overnight in a coach would be a more of a hassle than fun or relaxing.


----------



## Everydaymatters (Mar 19, 2009)

I travel alone and don't have someone sharing the cost of a sleeper with me. For me the price is more than I want to pay. I'd rather sleep in a coach seat on TWO Amtrak trips than have a sleeper for only ONE Amtrak trip.

Not everyone has a lot of freedom with money. What one person considers inexpensive is absolutely out of reach for another person.

For all of you who can travel as often as you want in a sleeper - good for you! I can't afford to travel as often as I want if I get a sleeper each time. For me it's a trade-off.


----------



## sky12065 (Mar 19, 2009)

Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:


> Personally, I say this all in Amtrak's best interest (as this discussion was brought back from the dead) that we should let this one drift back into oblivion. As a matter of fact, I believe one of the moderators should just lock this thread in the best interest of Amtrak. The subject matter has grown kinda tacky IMO as a former Amtrak employee.
> It's like this... simply put, if the train crew does not have a problem or receive complaints about this type behavior then we should live and let live. Anyway about it, if someone is obviously causing a safety issue/hazard by this behavior or it is complained about then something should be done (especially in the event of safety). A coach car is a coach car! A sleeper car is a sleeper car! A lounge car is a lounge car! Dining car.... I think most of us have got it by now. Why don't we simply utilize each car for its intention to begin with? IMHO that would be the best course of action. Otherwise one needs to plan their trip with another style of transportation.
> 
> But please. In Amtrak's best interest, let's just allow this thread die, now. Thanks... from a former employee...
> ...


As a neutral observer of this thread I agree with you that it has lived an almost good life. There's been plenty of good discussion, but it's now been beaten to death and it's time to lay it to rest, especially since disrespect for each others opinions have started to emerge!


----------

