# Should feds require minimum service levels?



## Birdy (Jul 5, 2010)

I was shocked to find that BART doesn't start until 8:00 a.m. on Sundays. That's fairly idiotic anyway, but with the new extension to the airport, it means that the 2003 airport extension is useless for anyone catching a plane before about 10:30 a.m. Sunday morning. Hundreds of millions of dollars was spent on the extension, a lot of it federal money.

Do the feds require minimum service levels to qualify for funding, or is it just left to the locality to do whatever they want with their new facility?


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## AlanB (Jul 5, 2010)

The Fed does require minimum service levels, but typically the Fed doesn't specify hours of operations. They specify a minimum number of runs per day and that it must be maintained for a period of 20 years to avoid being forced to return the money.

For example Tri-Rail in Florida just finished a multi-year double tracking project that the Fed helped to pay a major portion of the costs. Tri-Rail and the State of Florida agreed to run a minimum of 40 trips per weekday IIRC in return for that money. This is one reason that Florida needed to get off its duff and approve a dedicated funding source for Tri-Rail last year. They finally did at the same time they approved the new SunRail in Orlando. Had they failed to approve that funding source, Tri-Rail would have had no choice but to drop service below that 40 trips per day minimum and the State of Florida would have been on the hook for millions of dollars.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2010)

It would be more idiotic to run the trains as empty as they would be at that time. Running the entire line from the East Bay through to SFO for less than fifty people is a waste.

Next time take a SamTrans bus.


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## Green Maned Lion (Jul 10, 2010)

Rapid transit lines should operate on frequencies of no less than 5 minute headways on peak, 10 minute headways mid-day, and from 5-7am 8-10pm , 20 minute headways from 10 to midnight, and 30 minute headways at all other times. There should be service, at a minimum frequency of every 30 minutes, TWENTY FOUR HOURS A DAY. Period, end of discussion.

If a system can't operate on that schedule, then it has no right to call itself a functioning transit network.


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## amamba (Jul 25, 2010)

I have complained for years that it is pretty ridiculous that the T in Boston stops running at 1 am. That makes the last train at 12:30 for most people. It's pretty silly that one can't take the subway home after the bars close.


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## battalion51 (Jul 25, 2010)

Well you also have to consider the costs involved with maintaining a 24 hour operation. How much are you having to pay for crews to operate the system (both on board and in dispatch), pay for security/station personnel, pay for other variable costs? The lower your farebox recovery, your variable costs are going to make it extremely un-economical to run the service. While I realize all mass-tranist requires mass-subsidy, I've got to believe there are other alternatives in the Bay Area that don't have the same high variable costs as BART during off-peak hours. For example, here in the Atlanta area you could take MARTA from downtown to the airport, but like BART MARTA has down time. Or for $11 you could have a LINK shuttle pick you up at your hotel and take you to the airport at any time (assuming you make a reservation if you're leaving in the off hours).


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## George Harris (Jul 26, 2010)

Green Maned Lion said:


> Rapid transit lines should operate on frequencies of no less than 5 minute headways on peak, 10 minute headways mid-day, and from 5-7am 8-10pm , 20 minute headways from 10 to midnight, and 30 minute headways at all other times. There should be service, at a minimum frequency of every 30 minutes, TWENTY FOUR HOURS A DAY. Period, end of discussion.
> 
> If a system can't operate on that schedule, then it has no right to call itself a functioning transit network.


Feel free to pull out your checkbook and pen.


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## DET63 (Aug 27, 2010)

Birdy said:


> I was shocked to find that BART doesn't start until 8:00 a.m. on Sundays. That's fairly idiotic anyway, but with the new extension to the airport, it means that the 2003 airport extension is useless for anyone catching a plane before about 10:30 a.m. Sunday morning.


How many times have you or anyone you know ever flown out of anywhere at or before 10:30 a.m. on a Sunday?


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## jis (Aug 27, 2010)

DET63 said:


> Birdy said:
> 
> 
> > I was shocked to find that BART doesn't start until 8:00 a.m. on Sundays. That's fairly idiotic anyway, but with the new extension to the airport, it means that the 2003 airport extension is useless for anyone catching a plane before about 10:30 a.m. Sunday morning.
> ...


I do that absolutely whenever I can. Best chance for getting complementary upgrades on Continental!


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